COMMONWEALTH OF PENNSYLVANIA

LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL

WEDNESDAY, DECEMBER 15,1993

SESSION OF 1993 177TH OF THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY No. 66

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES Mr. STEIGHNER Thank you, Mr. Speaker. 'Ihe House convened at 9:30 a.m.. e.s.t. Mr. Speaker, I would ask for leave for today only for the gentleman from Philadelphia, Mr. RIEGER; the gentleman THE SPEAKER PRO TEMPORE from Westmoreland, Mr. PETRARCA, and the gentleman from Allegheny, Mr. OLASZ. (GREGORY C. FAJT) PRESIDING The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair thanks the PRAYER gentleman, and without objection, those leaves of absence will be granted. The SPEAKER pro tempore. Today's prayer will be offered The Chair also notes that there are no leaves of absence by Rev. Charles Dorscy, Director of Special Ministries for the being requested from the Republican side. Pennsylvania Council of Churches. REV. CHARLES E. IIOKSEY offered the following prayer: SENATE MESSAGE

Let US pray: HOUSE BILLS Eternal Go4 from whose gracious hand we have received CONCURRED IN BY SENATE the wondrous and solemn trust of life, we pause to become I'he clerk of the Senate, being introduced, returned FIB 437, aware of Your care and seek guidance for this House in its PN 1881; HB 1432, PN 2282; AB 1512, PN 2262; and AB business and work today. 2091, PN 2893, with information that the Senate has passed We thank You for the privilege of serving the people of the same without amendment. Pennsylvania and ask You to makc us faithful and wise servants as we use the power of our office. Give us the ability SENATE MESSAGE to see the big picture of the common good in the faces of all the individual men and women and boys and girls across this HOUSE AMENDMENTS

wonderful~ ~~ Commonwealth as we cast our votes and use ow CONCURRED IN BY SENATE voice and power, and in the end, give us peace that is The clerk of the Senate, being introduced informed that the promised to those who serve faithfully and in love. Amen. Senate has concurred in the amendments made by the House of Representatives to SB 248, PN 1526; and SB 315, PN PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE I 1777. (The Pledge of Allegiance was recited by members and visitors.) SENATE MESSAGE The SPEAKER pro tempore. 'The Chair would like to HOUSE AMENDMENTS extend a special thank-you to Reverend Dorsey and welcome CONCURRED IN BY SENATE him to the hall of the House today. The clerk of the Senate, being introduced, informed that the I Senate has concurred in the aiendments made by the House JOURNAL APPROVAL POSTPONED of Re~resentatives to the Senate amendments to IIB 659. PN 'The SPEAKER pro tempore. Without objection, the 2958. approval of the Journal of Tuesday, December 14, 1993, will be postponed until printed. The Chair hears no objection. SENATE MESSAGE AMENDED HOUSE RESOLUTION LEAVES OF ABSENCE RETURNED FORCONCURRENCE The SPEAKER pro tempore. lle Chair recognizes The clerk of the Senate, being introduced, informed that the Representative Steighner for leaves of absence on the Senate has concurred in BR 147, PN 2888, with information Democrdtic side. 2308 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE DECEMBER 15 that the Senate has passed the same with amendment in which Faimhild ~esc~~ltz Ry.n D~W~PS~. the concurrence of the House of Representatives is requested. I Lwdansky Santoni Speaker ADDITIONS-0 'c LEAVE OF ABSENCE NOT VOTING-0 The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair retwns to leaves of absence and asks that the chairman, Representative ACOSTA, EXCUSED-5 be added to the leaves. Acoste 01- Petrarca Rieger The Chair hem no objection to that, and Mr. Acosta will Bush be added to the leaves of absence for the day. LEAVES ADDED-2 Cohen, L. I. O'Donnell MASTER ROLL CALL The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair is about to take the master mll call. Members will proceed to vote. CALENDAR The following roll call was recorded: BILLS ON THIRD CONSIDERATION The House proceeded to third consideration of HB 1472, PN 2921, entitled: Adolph Frrgo Lloyd Satber All00 Fam hcYk Sawman An Act amending the act of September 1, 1965 (P.L.436, Argall Fee Lynch Saylor No.221), known as the Pennsylvania Commercial Feed Law of Amu*rong Fichter Maitland Sch- 1966, further providing for defmitions, licensing, fees, BaLer Flea& Mmderino Schuler adulteration, inspection, and penalties; and making a repeal. Barley Plisk Msrkosek Serimti bui& ~remvur ~arsim sanme~ On the question, Bebko-Jm Gamble Maslsnd Sarafini Will the House agree to the bill on third consideration? Bclardi Gmon Maymik Smith, B. Belfsnti Geir* McCall Smith S. H. Bill was agreed to. Bidin George MsGeehPn ~nydk,D. W. Bishop Gnlach McNally Shhk The SPEAKER pro tempore. This bill has been considered Blsum Giglidti Melio Stairs on three different days and agreed to and is now on final eoyg Gl&k Merry Skel~n passage. Bm Oodshdl Micblovic slmgher The question is, shall the bill pass finally? Bunt Gordoer Mihe StBl mk Gndlu Mihslich St~n Agreeable to the provisions of the Constitution, the yeas Bmtm Grow Miller Stella and nays will now be taken. Cdtqjmae Hal* Mundy Stirh Calrpsbiroca Ham Murphy Slrittmatter YEAS-197 Cam Hde~ Nailw Shlrls Adolph Fargo Lucyk Saurmao Came HWY Niskol Sum Allen Farmer Lynch Saylor Cawley ycc TmgreUi Hmesr~qr N Fee Msitlsnd Schoetz c- Herman O'Brien Taylor. E. Z. Araall Fichter Chiwick Hershey O'Donnell Taylor. J. Armramog Maoderino Schuler Baker Civss Hess Oliver Thomss Fleagle Markosek Scrimenti Clsrir Hughes Penel Tigue Bdey Flick Mswco Sew~el Banislo Freeman Masland Hutchi'mn Pesi Todinson Serafioi Clyme Bebko-Jones Gamble Mayemik Smith, B. Cohq L. I. Itkin Pecmoe Trello Belsdi Gannoo McCall Cohq M. ladlowiec Penit Trish Smith, S. H. Coldell. 1- Phillips True Belfmti Geist McGeehan Snyder, D. W. George ColaizLo Jdin Piscola Tulli Bimvlin McNally Staback Bishop Gerlach Conti Josephs PirWla Uliaoa Melio Stairs Blaum Gigliotti Comell Kim Pi- Vaoce Meny Steelman \ Cordgan Kasunic Plstts Vso Home Bayes Gladeck Mishlmis Steigher Bmw Godshall Misomje Cavell Keller PIesbn vmn Steil Bunt Gordner Mihalich Stem 6y Kenney Raymood Vitali Butkwitz GNitza Miller Stetler curry King Rk Wsshiogtoo Kirkland Reioard waugh Buxtoa GNPP~ Mundy Stish Daley Cslta@moe Hsluska Dehca Krebai Riehhn Williams Murphy Strinmatter C~pp~bianca Hma Nailor Stvrla D-WeY KuLovich Ritter wogm Dent Lscm Roberts Womiak Cam Harley Nidrol Surra Camne Tangreni DBmody hub Robinson Wright. D. R Hasay Nyce Cawley Hemessy 0'Brim Donatvcd hvghlin Roebuck Wright. M. N Taylor, E. Z. huce Lawless Rohrer Yaodrivrits Cessar Hemo O'Donnell Taylor, 1. b Chdwick Thomas D!xtm" kkrer Rmney Ywcic Hershey Oliver Egolf Lee Rubley Civera Hess Penel Tigue zug Clark Hutchinson Psci Todinson Evans Leh Rudy Clymer ltkin Petrooe Trello 1993 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE 2309

Cohen, L. I. Jadlowiec Pettit Trich Fleagle Maaderino Schuler Cohen, M. James Phillips True Badey Flick Markosek Scriwnti Colafella Jamlin Piccola Tulli Fmo Marsico Semmel Colaim Josephs Pistella Uliana Bebko-Jones Gamble Masland Sdni Conli Kaiser Pitts Vance Belardi Ganoon Mayemik Smith, B. Comell Kasunic matts Van Home Belfanti Geisl McCall Smith, S. H. Conigan Keller PresIoo veoo Bimlin George McGeehan Snyder, D. W. Cowell Kenoey Raymood Vitali Bishop Gerlash McNally Staback Coy King Reber Washington Blaurn GigliOni Melio Stairs Curry Kirkland RRnard waugh Boyes Gladeck Merry ste.3lman Daley Knbs Richardso~ Williams Brown Godshall Mishlovic StR&a DeLuca Kukovich Ritter Wogao Bud Gordner Mi-e Steil Dempsq. LaCrutta Roberts Waniak Butkovitz Gruitza Mihalich Stw Deot Laub Rdnnson Wright, D. R Buxlon G~PP~ Miller Skila Dedy Laughlio Roebuck Wright, M. N. Callagimoe Halush Muody Stish Donatucci Lawless Rohrer YandIivvlts Cappabianca Hsnna Murphy striumlter Dmce Lederer Rauney Yewcic Cam Harley Nailor SMa Durham Lee Rubley zug Camne Hasay Nickol Sm Egolf Leh Rudy Cawley Hennessq. Nyce Tangmi Evans Lescovitz Ryan Cessar Herman O'Brien Taylor. E. Z. Fairchild Lwdansky Santoni Chadwick Hershey O'Donnell Taylor. 1. Fajt Lloyd Sather Civera Hess Oliver Thomas Clark Hughes Pal Tigue Clymer Hukhinmo Pesci Tomlinmn Cohen, L. I. ltkio Pelmne Trello NOT VOTING-1 Cohen. M. Jadlowiec Pait Trieh Colafella lames Phillips True Hughes Colaina lamlin Piccola Tulli Conti lowphs Pistella Uliana Comell Kaiser Pillli Vance Asosta Olasz Peirarca Rieger Conigan Kasunic Platto Van Home Bush Cowell Keller Pnston Veon COY Kenney Raymood Vitali cuny King Reber Washington The majority required by the Constitution having voted in Daley Kirkland Rtinard Waugh Williams the affirmative, the question was determined in the affirmative DeLuca Krebs Richardson Dempse~ Kukovich Riner wogan and the bill passed finally. Dent LaGrotta Roberts womia Ordered, That the clerk present the same to the Senate for Dedy hub Rabinsoo Wright, D. R concurrence. Donalusci hughlin Raebuck Wright. M. N Druce Lawless Rohrer Yandrisevits * * * Durham Lederer Roooey Yw"c Eeolf Lee Rublw Zun- The IRouse proceeded to third consideration of SB 1237, Leh Rudy Lescovitz Ryan Dew-, PN 1496, entitled: Fajt Levdansky Santoni An Act amending the act of March 10, 1992 (P. L. , No. - NAYS-0 IA), entitled "An act appropriating money from the Sunny Day Fund to the Department of Commerce for various projects NOT VOTING4 throughout th~sCommanwealthfar fiscal year 1991-1992,'' further defining a project. EXCUSED-5 On the question, costa OIaz Petrarca Rieger Will the House agree to the bill on third consideration? Buh Bill was agreed to. The SPEAKER pro tempore. ?his bill has been considered The two-thirds majority required by Act 32 of 1985 having on three different days and agreed to and is now on final voted in the affirmative, the question was determined in the passage. affirmative and the bill passed finally. The question is, shall the bill pass finally? Ordered, That the clerk return the same to the Senate with Agreeable to the provisions of the Constitutio~the yeas the information that the House has passed the same without and nays will now be taken. amendment.

~dolph Fargo ~loyd Sather The House proceeded to third consideration of SB 704, PN Allen Farmer Lucyk Saurman 1129, entitled: Argall Fee Lynch Saylor Armstmng Fichter Mailland Ssh& LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE DECEMBER 15

~ An Act amending the act of May 11, 1949 (P. L. 1210, No. NOT VOTING-0 367), entitled "Group Life Insurance Policy Law," further providing for life insurance. EXCUSED-5 w On the question, Acosta Olasz Petrarca Rieger Will the House agree to the bill on third consideration? Bush Bill was agreed to. The majority required by the Constitution having voted in The This bill has ken SPEAKER pro the affirmative, the question was determined in the affirmative on three different days and agreed to and is now on final and the bill passed finally, passage. Ordered, That the clerk return the same to the Senate with The question is, shall the bill pass tinally? the information that the House has passed the same without Agreeable to the provisions of the Constitution, the yeas amendment. and navs will now be taken. YEAS-198 Adolph Fprgo Lloyd Sather The House proceeded to third consideration of HB 1085, Allm Fsnna hcyk Saunnao PN 1216, entitled: Argall Fee Lynch Saylor -08 Fichter MsiUand Sch& An Act amending the act of June 21, 1939 (P.L.566, No.284), Baku Reagle Msaderiaa Schula known as The Pennsylvania Occupational Disease Act, further Mey Ria Markosek Scrimti providing for compensation for disability from beryllium BaDido Pmm"m Marsia, Scmmel poisoning. BcbbJom Gsmble Masland Serafini Bolnrdi Gmon Mayemik Smith, B. On the question, &Ifanti Gtid McCall Sntilh, S. H. Will the House agree to the bill on third consideration? Birmelio George McGeehan Snyder, D. W. Bill was agreed to. Bishop Gerlach McNdly Staback Blm Oiglimi Melio Stair8 The SPEAKER pro tempore. This bill has been considered Bayes Gladesk Merry Steelman Bnnvn Godrhdl Michlwic steighner on three different days and agreed to and is now on final Bvol Gordoor Mi-e steil passage. Butkovitz GNilm Mihalich Stern The question is, shall the bill pass finally? Blrrton Gluppo Miller Ste(ler Agreeable to the provisions of the Constitution, the yeas Cdtagimoe Halwka Stish Mu& and nays will now be taken. w- Hams Muwhy Slrillmatler Cam Harley Nailor Shlrls Cllmne Hassy Nickol Surra C.wley Ha- N~ce Tan& Adolph Fargo Lloyd Sather Cersar Hem O'Brien Tsylor, E. Z. Allen Fmer Lucyk Ssumo Hersbey O'Dounell Taylor, J. Chadwick Argall Fee Lynch Saylor Civoa Hess Oliver Thomap mong Fichter Maitland Scheetz Cld Hughe8 Penel Tigue Baker Fleagle Manderino Schuler HutchinsorI Rsci Tomlinson Clymor Barley Flick Markosek Scrimti Cohen, L. I. Itkin Petmoe Trello Banido Freeman Marsiso S-el Cohen, M. Jsdlowlec Petlit Trich Bebko-Jones Gamble Masland Serafini Cdafella Junes Phillips True Belardi Gannon Mayernik Smith. 8. Colakm Jmlin Piaola Tulli Belfanli Geid McCall Smith. S. H. Conti Jooepbs Pistella Uliana Birmelin George McGeebao Snyder, D. W. Cornell Kaiser Pi- Van- Bisbop Gerlach McNally Staback Corrigan Kawolc Plans Van Home Blaum Gigliotti Melio Stairs Cowell Keller Rest00 Veon BOY Gladeck Merry Steelman coy Kenoey Raymond Vitali Brown Godshall Michlovic Steighner cw King Reber Washington Bunt Gordner Mi-e Steil Dsley Kirkland Reinard Wsugh Butkwilz Gmifza Mihalich Stern DeLucs Krebs Richardson Williams Bmtw G~ppo Mill= Stetlet msey Kukwich Rie wow 1 Caltagimne Haluska Mundy Stish LaGmtta Roberts Womiak Dent Cappabianca Hanna Murphy Slrittmatler Damody Laub Robinson Wright, D. R Cam Harley Nailor Sluda Donslucci Laughlio Roebuck Wright, M. N. Cam~e Hasay Nickol Sum Dmce hless Rohr Yandriwvils Cawley Hennessey Nyce Tangreni Durham Ldecer Rmney Yewif Herman O'Brien Taylor. E. Z. Egolf Lee Rubley Zug E%iCk Henhey O'Donnell Taylor, J. Evans Leh Rudy ~ Civera Hess Oliver Thomas Fairchild Lescovilz Ryan Dew-, Hughes Peml Tigue Fajt Levdaosky Sanlolu Speaker I Hutchiown Pee Tomlinson Cahen, L. I. Itkin Petrane Trello I Cohen, M. Iadloulec Pettit Trich LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE

Colafella James Phillips Tme Section 2. The act is amended by adding a section to read: Cola- Jarolin Piecola Tulli Amend Sec. 1 (Sec. 3.1). nape 2. line 12. bv insertine after I ,.A- . . . Conti Jase~hs Pistella Uliana I "anolicant." - Comell ~ai& Pitts Vaoce No fee shall be charaed for temporarv relocation of a hive or Corrien Kasunis Plans Van Home hives for cro~pollination from an apiary yard properly registered Cowell Kellor Preston Veoo as an apiary under the provisions of this act. COY Kenney Raymond Vitali Amend Sec. 1 (Sec. 3.1), page 2, line 20, by removing the CUV King Reber Washington period after "Commonwealth" and inserting Daley Kirkland Reinard Waugh : Provided. however. That the owner of an apiary yard which is DeLusa Krebs Richardson Williams pronerlv reeistered as an apiary under the provisions of this act Dem~se~ Kukovich Ritter Wogan shall not be required to report the temporary relocation of a hive Dent LaCrotta Robe& Wmiak or hives for crop ~ollinationas long as proper records of hive Dedy Laub Robinson Wright, D. R. locations are maintained bv the owner at a location available to ~onatucn Laughlin Roebuck Wright, M. N. the Secretarv of Aericulture for inspection. Druce Lawless Rohrer Yandrisevits Amend Sec. 2, page 2, line 21, by striking out "2" and Durham Lederer Rooney Yewcic inserting Egolf Lep Rubley zug 3 Evans Leh R~Y Amend Sec. 3, page 3, line 16, by striking out "3" and Fatrchild Lerovitz Ryan Dew-, inserting Fajt Levdanslty Saotoni Speaker 4 Amend Sec. 4, page 5, line 4, by striking out "4" and NAYS-0 inserting 5 NOT VOTING-0 On the question, EXCUSED-5 Will the House agree to the amendments? Acosta Olasz Petrarca Rieger BUS^ The SPEAKER pro tempore. On that question, the Chair recognizes Representative Nickol. Mr. MCKOL. Tlmk you, Mr. Speaker. The majority required by the Constitution having voted in This bill addresses the vital question of whether there is to the affirmative, the question was determined in the affirmative be not to be a B~~ L~~. and the bill passed finally. Our present Bee Law might as well not be a law because Ordered, That the clerk present the same to the Senate for it cmot be enforced. nereis no honey, er I mean money, concurrence. That is why we need HB 672.

tt* My bees do not object to paying $10 per apiay, kind of a property tax on each grouping of one or more hives at a site. The House proceeded to third consideration of RB 672, PN A bee sees enforcement and inspections as a way to stay 2919, entitled: disease free, however unfortunate the taxes may be. But each spring their hives are moved orchard to An Act amending the act of April 6, 1921 (P.L.95, No.58), from referred to as the Bee Law. increasine criminal Denalties: further I orchard to orchard as the various fit trees come into bloom. providing for civil and injunctive relief, and My amendment would guarantee the bees only pay once for for the registration of apiaries. I their home apiary a yard; stung once for the $11 fee. not On the question, twice or more each time they temporarily move. Will the House agree to the bill on third consideration? My amendment would also protect the bees from mailing Mr. NICKOL offered the following amendments No. in a change-of-address card to the Secretary of Agriculture AS01 1: every time they move. Afler all, this is their bimy season. The cards would not even arrive in Harrisburg till the bees Amend Title, page 1, line 13, by strlking out "and" where it have already moved. appears the first time Amend Title, page 1, lines 13 and 14, by removing the Now, I realire this bill may represent a tragic although period after "apiaries" and inserting necessary step in bee society. Afler all, the $10 fee is just a tax ; and for apiary yards. by another name. Amend Bill, page 1, lines 17 through 19, by striking out all Today there is a bee saying: "I'm glad to live life as free as of said lines and inserting Section I. Section 1 of the act of April 6, 1921 (P.L.95, a bee." No.58). referred to as the Bee Law, is amended by adding a clause Afler passage of HB 672, it will not be long until we may to read: hear them bemoan, "There's nothing so certain in life as death, Section 1. Be it enacted, &c.. That, for the purpose of construing this act, the following definitions shall be applied: taxes, hard work, and honey." tt* Despite the tragedy of this step, the bees need the fees to (5.1) "Apiary yard" shall be construed to mean a fined stay disease free. location within this (iommonwealth where an apiarv is maintained I could drone on, but I will not. We must face the question, on a continuinn basis from which hives may be moved to temporarv locations for croD pollination and returned. is there to be or not to be a Bee Law? **I

1993 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE 2313

Comell Kasunic Platts Van Home Cam Harley Nailor Ma Conigan Keller Preston Veon Camne H~Y Nickol Sumr Cowell Kenoey Raymond Vitali Cawley Henoessqr N~ce Tm COY Kirkland Reba WashogMn C-c H-n O'Bricn Taylor, E. 2. C~W Krebs Reinard Waugh Chadwick Hershey O'Domell Taylor, I. Daley Kukovich Richardson Williams Civera Hem Oliver Thorn DeLuca LaGmtta Ritter Wogan Clark Hughes Penel Tigoe Dempse~ Laub Robetts Wmniak Clymer Hutchinson Ppi Tomlioson Dent Laughlin Robinson Wright, D. R Cohen. L. I. ltkin Pdmne Tdo Dm Lawless Roebuck Wright, M. N. Coheo. M. ladlowlec Pettit Ttieh ~ooatucci Lederer Rohrer Yaodrisevits Colafella James Phillip True Druce Lee Raoney Yewcio Colaizm Jamlin Piccola Tulli Durham Leh Rubley zug Conti Jwhs PisIella Uliana Egolf LesMvitz Rudy Cornell Kaiser Pitts Vance Evans Levdansky Ryan Dew-, Conigan Kiwnic PI& Van Home Fairchild Lloyd Santoni Spker Cowell Keller F'wlon Veon Fajt Lucyk Sather COY Kmq Raymond Vitali CV King Reber Washiogtoo NAYS-5 Ddey Kirkland Reinad Waugh DeLuca Krebs Risbardwo Williams Bimlin Hasay King Serafini DW Kukovich Rmer WOgSn Godshall Dent LaGmftr RobRts Wmiak Dm& Laub Robinan, Wright, D. R NOT VOTING-0 Donahcn Laughlin Roebuck Wright, M. N. Druce Lawlens Rohrer Ymdriswita EXCUSEL3-5 Durham Lederer hne~ Y~vcic Acosta Olare Petrana Rieger Egolf Lee Rubley ZW Bush Evans Leh Rudy Fainhild Lescwitz Ry.n DsWeona Fajt Levdanslry SantMd Sm The majority required by the Constitution having voted in Fq" LIO@ sather the affirmative, the question was determined in the affirmative NAYS-O and the bill passed finally. Ordered, That the clerk present the same to the Senate for NOT VOTING-1 concurrence. I Caltagimne

HB 1472 RECONSIDERED Aca 01- PetraM Riegct The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair has before it a Bush reconsideration motion by Representative Hasay, who moves that the vote by which HB 1472, PN 2921, was passed on the 15th day of December be reconsidered. The question was determined in the affirmative, and the motion was agreed to. On the question, Will the House agree to the motion? THE SPEAKER (H. WILLIAM DeWEESE) The following roll call was recorded: PRESIDING On the question recurring, YEAS-197 Shall the bill pass finally? Adolph Farmer Lucyk Saumo The SPEAKER Agreeable to the provisions of the Allen Fee Lynch Saylor Fichter Maitland Scheetz Constitution, the yeas and nays will now be taken. ~mog Fleagle Mandaino Schuler Baker Flick Markasek Scrimenti Badey Freeman Marsieo Semmel Adolph Fainhild Lescwitz Rubley Battido Gamble Maslaod Serafni Allen Fajt Rudy Bebko-Jones Cannon Mayemik Smilh. B. Argall Fargo uvd Ryan Belad Gei* McCall Smith, S. H. Armslrong Fa- Lucyk Santoni Belfaati George McCeehan Snyder, D. W. Baker Fee Lynch Saumm Birmelin Gerlach McNally Staback Badey Fichter Maitland Sshestz Bishop Gigliotti Molio Stain Battisto Flea& Mandetino Schula Blaurn Gladak Merry Steelman Bebko-Iooes Flick Markosek Scrimti Boyes Godshall Michlovic Stei&er Belardi Free- Maroiu, Semmel Bmwo Gordoer Micoizie Steil Belfanti Gamble Masland Smith, B. Bunt Gruitza Mihalich Stem Bimlin Gaonon Mayemik Sndth, S. H. Butkovitz GNPP~ Miller Stetler Bishop ceist M~Call Staback Buxton Haluska Mundy StiQ Blaum George McOeehan Stain Cappabianca Hanna Murphy Stnttmaner 2314 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE DECEMBER IS

Boyes Oerlach McNally Steelman FILMING PERMISSION Brown Giglidti Melio Steighner -1 Bunt Oladeck Mew StRl The SPEAKER The members will be alerted to the fact B~~tzGordner Michlovic Stetler that Mike Ross of WHTM-TV, channel 27, as well as John t Buxton Gmim Mide Srish Sanks of WPVI-TV, channel 6, are on the floor and will be Calta~rone GNPP~ Mihalich Strittmatter Csppabianca Haluska Miller Shlrla filming for the debate of HB 185 and general coverage during Cam Hanna MW~Y Sum the proceedings. C-e Harley Murphy Tan@ Cawley Hennessey Nailar Taylor, E. Z. Ceaenr Herman Nickol Taylor, I. BILL ON CONCURRENCE Chamvick Hershey Nyce no- IN SENATE AMENDMENTS Civera Hess O'Brien Tigue I Clark Hughes O'Donnell Todinson The House proceeded to consideration of concurrence in Clyma Hutchinson Oliver Trello Senate amendments to HR 185, PN 2217, entitled: Coben, L. I. Itkin Perzel Trich Cobw, M. Jdowjec Pescj True An Act amending Title 18 (Crimes and Offenses) of the Colafella James Pdmne Tulli Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes, further providing for cola^ Jamlin Petlit Uliana prohibited offensive weapons and for limitation on municipal Coati Josephs Phillips Vanse regulation of firearms and ammunition; and providing for Comell Kaiser Piccola Van Home summary offenses in connection with amusement rides. Conigan Knmnic: Piraella Veon Cowell Keller Pitts Vitah On the question recurring, Kenney Plstts Washington COY Will the House concur in Senate amendments as amended? curry Kiog Preston Waugh I Kirkland Raymond WO@O Ddey The SPEAKER. On page 9 of today's calendar, HB 185, DeLuca Gabs Reba Wmiak D~~P-Y Kukovlch Rhnsrd Wright, D. R PN 2217. The House will return to debate on the Michlovic Den1 LaCmtta Richardson Wright, M. N. amendment. Dedy Laub Rimer Yandrisevlts Donatucci Laughlin Robelts YPwnc On the question recurring, D~ce Lawless Robinson zug Will the House concur in Senate amendments as amended? Durham Ledem Rcxbuck Egolf Lee Rohrer Dew-, The clerk read the following amendments No. A4958, Evans Lcb Roooey Speaker offered by Mr. MICHLOVIC on December 14, 1993:

NAY S-7 Amend Sec. 1 (Sec. 61 1 I), page 2, lines 8 through 59; page 3. lines 1 through 24 (A4786), by striking out "Within 20 business Godrball Sather Serafini Stem days after the", page 2, line 8 and all of lines 9 through 59, page Hawy Saylor Snyder, D. W. 2 and all of lines 1 through 24, page 3 Amend Bill, page 3, by inserting between lines 31 and 32 NOT VOTING-1 (A4786) Williams Section 3. Chapter 61 of Title 18 is amended by adding a subchaptet to read: CHAPTER 61 FIREARMS AND OTHER DANGEROUS ARTICLES Acosla Olssz Pemca Rieger * * Bush SUBCHAPTER D ASSAULT WEAPONS Sec. The majority required by the Constitution having voted in 6181. Definitions. 6182. Determination bv court. the affirmative, the question was determined the affirmative in 6183. ~egis&+tion. ' and the bill passed finally. 6184. Relinquishment of weapons. Ordered, That the clerk present the same to the Senate for 6185. Licensed -gun dealers. concurrence. 6186. Penalties. 6187. Application of subchapter. b' The SPEAKER The gentleman, Mr. Ryan, is recognized. 5 6181. Definitions. The following words and phrases when used in this Mr. RYAN. Mr. Speaker, when we adjourned last night, it subchapter shall have the meanings given to them in this section was with the distinct understanding that we would return this unless the context clearly indicates otherwise: morning to HB 185. I was just assured by the majority leader "Assault weapon." 111 The followinn- weaoons known bv the trade a few moments ago that that would be the next bill. Two bills names specified: have happened since, and I am wondering if you would please RIFLES move to that. Algimec AGM 1 type The SPEAKER The gentleman, Mr. Ryan, should know Armalite AR-180 carbine Australian SAR 'rr that 1 was trying to be polite to Mr. Rasay. lib 185 is up next, Avtomat Kalashnikov (AK) series sir. Beretta AR-70 (SC-70) Mr. RYAN. Thank you. It is a treat. Beretta BM59 Bushmasler Assault Rifle (armgun) LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE

Calico M-900 type and load another cartridge into the fuing chamber; and which CETME G3 automaticallv shoots more than one shot bv a sinnle- function of Chartered Industries SR-88 type the trigger. Colt AR-15 series # "Commissioner." The Commissioner of the Pennsylvania CAR-15 series State Police. Daewoo AR-I00 type "Licensed gun dealer." A person who has a Federal fuearms Daewoo K-l license and any business license required by a State or local Ilaewoo K-2 governmental 'ntity. Ilaewoo Max 1 "Semiautomatic firearm." A fuearm which uses a portion of Daewoa Max 2 the force of a fued cartridge to expel the case of the fued Demro TAC-I carbine type cartridge and load another cartridge into the fiing chamber; and Encom MP-9 carbine type which requires a separate function of the trigger to fue each

cartrid~e~~~~ -~- Encom MP-45 carbine type ~ Fabrique Nationale FNIFAL 4 6182. Determination by court. Fabrique Nationale FNILAR (a) General rule.-Upon request by the commissioner filed Fabrique Nationale FNC in a verified petition in the Commonwealth Court, the court shall FAMAS MAS223 issue a declakation of temporary suspension of the manufacture, G3SA type sale, distribution, transportation or importation into this Gal11 type Commonwealth, or the giving or lending of a fiream alleged to Heckler & Kuch HK-91 be an assault weapon because the firearm is either of the Heckler & Koch IIK-93 following: Heckler & Koch RK-94 (1) Another model by the same manufacturer or a ileckler & Koch MP-5 coav', bv, another manufacturer of an assault weanon listed in Heckler & Koch PSG-I section 6181 (relating to definitions), which is'identical to Mandall the TAC-I Carbine one of the assault weapons listed in that section except for MI45 slight modifications or enhancements, including, hut not M-I6 type limited to: a folding or retractable stock; adjustable sight; M-900 Assault Carbine case deflector for left-handed shooters; shorter barrel; MAC 11-99 Carbine Type wooden, plastic or metal stock; larger magazine size; Plainfield Machine Company Carbine different caliber provided that the caliber exceeds .22 Ruger K-Mini-14lSF rimfire: or bavonet mount. The court shall strictlv construe Rugrr K-Mmi-1415RF this pa;agrap6 so that a firearm which is merelisimilar in SKS with detachable magazine appearance but not a prototype or copy can not be found to SlG AMT be~withinthe meaning of this paragraph. SlG 500 series (2) A firearm first manufactured or sold to the SIG I'E-57 -neneral oublic in this Commonwealth 90 davs after the Springfield Armory BM59 cttu~t~\edatc oith~ssubchapter. whloh has heen rcdvs~gned, Springfield Armory SAR-48 renamed or renumber~dtnmi one .,i the f~rcdrmsltstcd to Sterline MK-6 sectl,rn hlRl, or which ~s manulautured or solJ hy another ~terlineSAR comoanv under a licensine aereement to manufacture or sell . , L = Stryr ACJG on< .,f the i~rearmsl~sted therem rugardless olthe company Valmet Mh2 semtautomat~c ot pr.>ductton or Jtstrthut~,>n,or the country ui ortgln. Valmet M71S semiautomatic fbj~eclarationoftem~orarv...suspension.-Upon the cssuance Valmet M76 semiautomatic of a declaration of temporary suspension by the cokt and after the Valmet M78 semiautumatic commissioner has completed the notice requirements of subsection Uzi carbine tvoe (=)(I), the provisions of subsection (a) shall apply with respect to Weaver ~rms~ighthawk those weapons. Mac 10 fc). , Notice.- Mac 11 (1) Upon declaration of temporary suspension, the lntratec TEC-9 commissioner shall immediately notify all police, sheriffs, lntratec TEC-22 district attorneys and those requesting notice under Mitchell Arms Spectre Auto paragraph (21, shall notify industry and association Sterling MK-7 publications for those who manufacture, sell or use firearms, Calico M-900 and shall publish notice in not less than ten newspapers of SHOTGUNS general circulation in geographically diverse sections of this Encom CM-55 Commonwealth of the fact that the declaration has been Franchi SPAS 12 issued. Franchi LAW 12 (2) The commissioner shall maintain a list of any Gilbert Equipment Company Striker 12 persons who request to receive notice of any declaration of Gilbert Equipment Company Street Sweeper temporary suspension and shall furnish notice under Steyr-AUG scmrautomatic type paragraph (1) to all these persons immediately upon a court USAS 12 semiautomatic type declaration. Notice shall also be furnished by the Pistols commissioner by certified mail, return receipt requested (or UZI Pistol substantial equivalent if the oerson to receive same resides (2j Any shotgun w~tha revolving cylinder such as outside the ~hitedStates), to any known manufacturer and the "Street Sweeper" or "Striker 12." Commonwealth distributor of the weapon subject to the (3j A semiautomatic weapon with a magazine temporary suspension order or their statutoj agent for capacity exceeding ten rounds. service. The notice shall be deemed effective upon mailing. (4) Any firearm declared by the court pursuant to (d) Hearing-After issuing a declaration of temporary section 6182 (relating to determination by court) to be an suspension under this section, the court shall set a date for hearing assault weaoon. on a permanent declaration that the weapon is an assault weapon. "Automatic firearm." A firearm which uses a portion of the The hearing shall be set no later than 30 days from the date of force of a fired cartridge to expel the case of the fired cartridge issuance of the declaration of temporary suspension. The hearing LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE DECEMBER 15 may be cont~nuedit11 good cause ihereafter. Any ntanufactunr or Any individual may arrange in advance to relinquish an Cummunwealth d~stributurol'the weapm whlch 1s ihe iublect of assault weapon to a police or sheriffs department. the temporary suspension order has the right, within 20 davs of $ 6185. Licensed gun dealers. notificaiion 0-f the issuance of the order. to Fntervene in the action. Any licensed gun dealer who lawfully possesses an assault Any manufacturer or ~ommonwealthdistributor who fails to weapon under this subchapter, in addition to the uses allowed k timely exercise its right of intervention or any other person who hereunder, may hausport the weapon between dealers or out of manufacturers, sells or owns the assault weapon may, in the this Commonwealth, display it at any gun show licensed by a court's discretion. thereafter ioin the action as amicus curiae. State or local governmental entity, sell it to a resident outside this (c) Burden of pruof -A[ the hearlug, the burden ~rfpruui1s Commonwealth or sell it to a person who has been issued a permit upon thr. cornmissloner to show by a preponderance vt ev~dcnce pursuant to this subchapter. Any transporting allowed by this that the weapon whlch is the subject of the declarat~on of section must be done as required by this subchapter. temporary suspension is an assault weapon. If the court finds the $ 6186. Penalties. weapon to be an assault weapon, it shall issue a declaration (a) Unlawful manufacture, importation, etc.-Any person thereof. Any party to the matter may appeal the court's decision. who within this Commonwealth manufactures or causes to be A declaration that the weapon is an assault weapon shall remain manufachlred, distributes, transports or imports into this in effect during the pendency of the appeal unless ordered Commonwealth, keeps for sale or offers or exposes for sale, or otherwise by the appellate court. who gives or lends any assault weapon, except as provided by this 8 6183. Registration. subchapter, commits a felony of the thud degree. (a) General rule.-Any person who lawfully possesses an (b) Unlawful possession.-Any person possessing an assault assault weapon, prior to 90 days after the effective date of this weapon in violation of this subchapter commits a misdemeanor of subchapter, shall register the firearm within one year of that the first degree for a first offense and a felony of the thud degree effective date, with the commissioner under those procedures for each subseauent offense. which the Pennsylvania State Police may establish. The 8 6187. lidati at ion of subchapter. registration shall contain a description of the fiearm that This subchapter shall not apply to the use or possession of identifies it uniquely, including all identification marks, the full assault weapons by State or local law enfo~cement~a~encies,the name, address, date of birth and thumbprint of the owner, and any military forces of this Commonwealth or the armed forces of the other information as the department may deem appropriate. The United States. department may charge a fee for registration of up to $20 per person but not to exceed the actual processing costs of the On the question recurring, department. (b) Certain sales. transfers. etc.-No assault weapon Will the House agree to the amendments? posseiskd under this section may be sbld or transferred on or a'fter 90 days following the effective date of this subchapter, to anyone The SPEAKER The gentleman, Mr. Mark Cohen of within this Commonwealth other than to a licensed gun dealer, as Philadelphia, is recogmzed on the Michlovic amendment. defmed herein. Any person who obtains title to an assault weapon The Chair only has four people scheduled to speak on the registered under this section by bequest or intestate succession, moves into this Commonwealth in lawful possession of an assault Michlovic amendment; only four people scheduled to speak. weapon or lawfully possessed a fuearm subsequently declared to Mr. Cohen, are you available or should we proceed to be an assault weapon under this subchapter shall, within 90 days, another member? either render the weapon permanently inoperable, sell the weapon The gentleman, Mr. Cohen, is recognized for debate on the to a licensed gun dealer or remove the weapon from this Commonwealth. A person who lawfully possessed a fuearm which Michlovic amendment. was subsequently declared to be an assault weapon under section Mr. COHEN. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. 6182 (relating to determination by court) may alternatively Mr. Speaker, my good friend, Bob Belfanti, discussed the register the fuearm withim 90 days of that declaration. (c) Conditions of possession.-A person who has registered situation yesterday in Nolthumberland County, where only 1 an assault weapon under this section may possess it only under the of 27 murders in No~thumberland County, either last year or following conditions unless a permit allowing additional uses is this year, was with a gun. In Philadelphia the situation is fust obtained: different. (1) At that person's residence, place of business or other nrooertv owned hv that oerson or on orooertv.. . owned Every year for the past 5 years the percentage of murders by an;th;r with the o&er's express permission. with a gun has increased. I believe we are now at the point in (2) While on the premises of a target range of a Philadelphia where 73 percent of all murders are with a gun; public or private club or organization organized for the .~umose . of oracticing shooting at targets. 5 years ago only a little over half the murders in Philadelphia (3) bile on; target rLge wcich holds a regulatory were with a gun. or business license for the purpose of practicing shooting at The head of the trauma unit at the University of that target range. Pennsylvania has said that more and more people who go to (4) While on the premises of a shooting club. (5) While attending any exhibition, display or the trauma unit are now dying of murder because the weapons educational project which is about fuearms and which is being used are much deadlier, much more effective- sponsored by, conducted under the auspices of or approved by a law enforcement agency or a nationally or State recomized entitv that fosters oroticiencv, in.~~. or~. oromotes POINT OF ORDER edu&tion ahout,'fuearms. (6) While transporting the assault weapon between Mr. CANNON. Mr. Speaker, point of order. any of the places mentioned in this subsection. The SPEAKER. The gentleman, Mr. Cohen, will No person who is under 18 years of age and no person who is momentarily desist. prohibited from possessing a firearm by this chapter may register b or possess an assault weapon. The registration procedures shall The gentleman from Delaware, Mr. Gannon, is recognized provide the ovtiou of ioint registration for assault weaoons owned for a wint of order. The eentleman will state his mint. by family members &siding-in the same household. ' 8 6184. Relinquishment of weapons. 1993 LEGISLATIVE J( URNAL - HOUSE 2317

p~ Mr. GN*MoN. Mr. Speaker, we are addressing the how bad things can get. The Michlovic amendment will save Michlovic amcndment, which 1 believe has a list of weapons lives. Even if you are from a ~ralarea where there are no that will be banned. The gentleman is talking about weapons murders or no significant numbers of murders with guns or other than are included in the Michlovic amendment. assault weapons, you will have constituents who come to I would ask that if he is going to address the issue of Philadelphia. Every day in Philadelphia, every day in crimcs committed with weapons, that he address crimes Pittsburgh, every day in Hanisburg there are many, many committed with the weapons on this list. Thank you, Mr. people from outside the cities. In Philadelphia it is estimated Speaker. that there are well over 300,000 Pennsylvanians who are not 'The SPEAKER. The gentleman, Mr. Gannon, is in order. Philadelphia residents in Philadelphia every day. Over half of Bows and arrows and switchblades and other weapons not on them have jobs there. Others visit Philadelphia for business the list are inappropriate for debate. purposes. Others go to college in Philadelphia. Others visit friends in Philadelphia, and there are large numbers in The gentleman may proceed. Harrisburg, Pittsburgh, other cities. Mr. COHEN. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Michlovic amendment deals with crime. It is a strong Mr. Speaker, the people who lun the trauma unit at the anticrime measure. It sets a cap on how bad things can be in University of Pennsylvania cannot ascertain with certainty the future. I would urge your support of it. Thank you. exactly what weapons are used and whether weapons are on The SPEAKER The gentleman, Mr. Ryan, from Delaware. this list or any other list. They know, however, that the Mr. RYAN. Mr. Speaker, I tried to listen to the gentleman, weapons that are used are the types of weapons that are on this Mr. Cohen's remarks, and frankly, I had some difficulty. I list, and they know that because they are the types of weapons guess maybe, Mr. Speaker, it is I read lips and all these that are on this list, more and more people are dying despite cameras are between me and Mr. Cohen, and I could not see great improvements in medical technology and great what he was saying. I understand what I just said then. improvement in medical skill. But you know, this whole subject, Mr. Speaker, has been I submit to you that the experience in Philadelphia, in one that appeared to me to be one of contradictions, the whch there are more and more shootings and a higher and contradictions ranging from gun control, which is tenible higher number of the shootings are fatal shootings despite great because the Constitution guarantees us the right to bear arms; improvements in medical skill, is more relevant to the future followed by the contradiction that the government prohibits the of Pennsylvania than the experience in some lural counties owning of machne guns, by way of example, and no one where there are virtually no shootings. really challenges the right of the Federal Government to I know I have read, as a part-time resident of Hanisburg, prohibit that; our sportsmen wanting to own weapons, and my that the number of murders in Hanisburg has hit an all-time personal approval, for instance, of allowing them to do as they high this year, and I would suggest that the future of see fit; the sport connected with the use of firearms, the Hanisburg lies in the same direction as the current reality in legitimate use of firearms, yet the dangers associated with l'hiladelphia. We havc read about murders in suburban firearms. counties, and I would expect that the future of suburban I have seen amendments that are to be offered to this bill Philadelphia counties - Bucks, Delaware, Chester, afler the Michlovic amendmenl is taken care of. I have heard Montgomery - lies in the same direction as the future of the spokesman for the Black Caucus yesterday make an Phladelphia, that there are going to be more and more impassioned plea that the city of Philadelphia and, I suppose, shootings and the shootings are going to be more and more followed by a iiuther impassioned plea that the city of likely to kill people because there are better weapons. Pittsburgh be allowed to continue their bill. It seems to me, We have heard a lot of talk about the Second Amendment, Mr. Speaker, with 20 or 30 amendments going, that none of us and the Second Amendment was passed not by the really know what is happening to this bill and what it will look Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia but by the 13 States like, what it will look like with a myriad of amendments right aAer the Revolutionary War. In the whole Revolutionary offered to it, some accepted, some rejected. War, there were a total of about 4,400 deaths of American Late yesterday afternoon or early evening you saw a large soldiers. In the whole Revolutionary War-to repeat group amund my desk. We watched large groups meet amund myself-there were only 4,400 deaths of American soldiers, and the desk of the majority leader. At my request, at the request most of these deaths were not caused by rifle shots. They were of others, the Federation of Sportsmen was contacted; the NRA caused by bayonets; they were caused by poor health was contacted; other interested groups of sportsmen; the Gun conditions of the tmps. Now the weapons have gotten more Collectors were contacted; Rifle and Pistol Association; State and more effective, so that in an 8-year period-the Shooting Sports Clubs were contacted, and there seemed to be Revolutionary War lasted 8 years-in an 8-year period there are general agreement from them-and it is on your desk, I believe; far more Pennsylvanians who die of murder than who died in it is on mine-that Representative Merle Phillips was going to the Revolutionary War. make a motion today. Well, I am going to make that motion. I would strongly urgc support of the Michlovic amendment, because the Michlovic amendment deals with the future of Pennsylvania. The Michlovic amendment sets some limits to 2318 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE DECEMBER I5

MOTION TO RECOMMIT I to handle matters of any real substance, and I am a member of it. Mr. RYAN. At this time I move that HB 185 be The SPEAKER The gentleman, Mr. Mihalich, from recommitted to the Committee on Game and Fisheries-that is Westmoreland is recognized on the motion to recommit. in accordance with this sheet-and the amendments that are Does the gentleman, Mr. Itkin desire to respond? attached to the bill and the amendments that are to be offered. Then Mr. Mihalich will be recognized. I would think they should go over to that committee to be Mr. ITKIN. I would just like to rebut the remarks of my considered by it. This is in accordance with the wishes of all distinguished colleague on the other side of the aisle. All bills these various sportsmen's clubs, the National Rifle Association. on concurrence in Senate amendments repose in the Rules This does two things. It allows Philadelphia to continue Committee. It has been traditional in this House that when bills with its ordinances; it allows Pittsburgh to continue with its get reported to the Rules Committee-and according to our ordinances. It allows the sportsmen of Pennsylvania to look rules, they are amended in our committeeif there is any . more closely at what is pending here. reason to amend a bill that has come from the Senate, a House I think a definite message has been sent to gun enthusiasts bill that has come from the Senate, it ought to go in the Rules that we are going to do something. The question is, what are and Committee and not to some other House committee. we going to do? Let us get together do something proper The SPEAKER The gentleman, Mr. Mihalich, on the rather than piecemeal. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. motion to recommit. The SPEAKER The gentleman has moved to recommit. Mr. MIHALICH. Mr. Speaker, I think the motion to On the question, recommit and also the rationale behind it that was spelled out Will the House agree to the motion? by the minority leader and is spelled out on here indicates one reason why I do not think it should be recommitted. The SPEAKER The gentleman, Mr. Itkin, is recognized on I heard somebody say, walking in here this morning, how the motion to recommit. difficult this job of omis, weighing these weighty questions. Mr. ITKIN. Mr. Speaker, I was shocked today to find out There are many more difficult jobs than ours. Let me tell you that after at1 of the machinations of the other side of the aisle one of them, and that is being a policeman in Pennsylvania. and the strong concern about dealing with this bill, that this You never know whom you are going to confront, and now we morning we are now faced with a recommittal motion back to have ,difficult time finding out what kind of armaments these committee. crack dealers and other criminals might have. As I see this, I do not understand what has happened in the short period they have not been consulted. I have only heard, in all of these of % hours, but it is apparent to us on this side of the aisle ~OUBof debate, two references to policemen and one of them that this is an issue that has to be addressed in Pennsylvania. was on the other side of the question. But I think we owe it, I am Personally offended because the motion to recommit did we owe it to ourselves to explore this question today, make a go to the Rules Committee, from which this bill came and decision today, and let us not forget about the people whom which I chair, but to the Game and Fish Committee, in which, we charge with our safety, who arc supposed to protect our in a discussion with the chairman of that committee, he does homes, not wish to see that bill or receive that bill. The policemen will be more jeopardized by the I think, Mr. Speaker, that the time is mw that we a on front proliferation of the semiautomatic or blow-away guns or this issue and we confront this issue head-on. The people of whatever you want to call them than any of us, and I thnk we Pennsylvania deserve to know how its Representatives in this it to them to keep this bill on the floor today and adopt MI of the House stand on this Vely impoltant issue of the Michlovic amendment. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. permitting assault weapons to be carried about this The SPEAKER Does the gentleman, Mr. Preston, seek Commonwealth. recognition? ?he gentleman is recognized on the motion to Mr. Speaker, I could speak to this issue in no more stronger terms than to say, the people of Pennsylvania deserve Mr. PRESTON. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. a response from this House, and I, as your leader on this side I rise to be opposed to the motion to recommit. t of the aisle, will try to make sure that that answer is provided I am literally amazed that the minority leader would get up today. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. there and say this, because for the last 3 weeks we have known The SPEAKER On the motion torecommit, the gentleman that this issue was coming to the forefront, and there were a fmm Delaware County, Mr. Ryan, is recognized. lot of people on my side of the aisle who did not want to see Mr. RYAN. Mr. Speaker, I am a little amazed that the it, but it is here. Also yesterday a lot of us were timi, but a lot majority leader neglected to say the real reason why the bill of us were still willing to go and stay here to work with this, came from Rules. It came from Rules because under the rules but yet in a sense the minority leader had something else he of the House, the bill came back on concurrence from the had to do. 1 am still here today still willing to work, because Senate, and under rule 30 it went into the Rules Committee. earlier last week I thought that we were not going to be in The Rules Committee does not handle matters of substance, session. I had promised my daughter that right now, 12 nor should it. Its members, I sometimes question their ability 03clock, later on today, we would be out bugng a chstmas 1993 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE 2319 tree, and I am still here. I do not care what the reason is. And We have debated this bill ad infinitum. I think it is high if he is trying to cover for you, then fine, but we should be time that this chamber take a stand on the issue of HB 185 and here to be about the people's business. gun control and that we oppose the motion to recommit and We are here to vote this bill up or down, whether someone vote on the bill. Tha& you, Mr. Speaker. wins or loses. Mr. Godshall started this issue. He has brought The SPEAKER The Chair thanks the gentleman from it to the forefront. Now the minority leader seems to be trying Carbon and recognizes the gentleman from Clearfield, to protect somebody, but let us just stand up and be counted. Representative George, on the motion to recommit. This is the people's business. This is the House of Mr. GEORGE. Mr. Speaker, over the past several weeks Representatives. We have slowed the process down already there have been matters as equally important as the major when we passed different rules and regulations - 24-hour legislation that we now are debating, but yet for some reason notice. We have had these amendments since last week. How this particular legislation has pushed back all of the other many more times can we read them? How many more times significant legislation that we should be dealing with. can you caucus on them? How many more times can you sit Good men and women on both sides of this aisle who share down and discuss them? individual philosophies have been put in a tenible position. No The time is now. Not tomorrow, not next week, not next matter who the man or woman is or where he comes from or month; the time is now. Let us do this right now. she comes from, in most cases we attempt to do what those The SPEAKEK. l'he gentleman, Mr. Armstrong, yield who sent us up here want us to do in every case. But now we momentady. are talking about and we seem to be going about this as antagonists. Those of us that come from the rural area know FILMING PERMISSION that legislators that are representing the people in the cities have a legitimate concern and are up here to express that The SPEAKER. As a courtesy, the Chair will announce in con,m of those they And I say to tho% in the city of the midst of our debate that Mike Davies of the House Philadelphia, who represent their city well, that those ofus that Republican Video will also be filming today on HB 185. come from a ~walarea, indeed we attempt to represent those who sent us equally as well. CONSIDERATION OF HB 185 CONTINUED Now, this just is not a matter now of gun legislation; this neSPEAKER MI. hstrong, you may on the is a matter, sadly, that has become extremely political, and motion to recommit. whatever happens and how it happens will in effect bring Mr. ARMSTRONG. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. about problems for those that seemingly vote the wrong way. Mr. Speaker, I would like to be able to vote this issue, too, For those of you in the city, please understand that I share but when I looked back over the past 7 days and I saw back Your but I represent people who the time that 7 days ago we had 4 or 5 amendments, now all of a sudden We Were young, Our fathers took us into the woods and taught we are faced with 30.some amendments, I believe it is a US the fundamentals and the safety and the enjoyment of travesty again; that the individuals who are most able to look hmting. ney did not teach us to go out and kill ~eo~le,and at this whole issue in the Game and Fisheries need that respect the people in my area, the vast echo my and need that time to take up these issues and address them. sentiments. We understand your concerns, but we really do not I am fully prepared to vote every single one of these believe that it is the good people from Philadelphia or the good amendments and the bill today, but I do believe it is wisdom people from Clearfield that are going Out with a gun and to recommit this bill at this point. And I would also like to say attempting to maim Or someone. to my fellow members that I believe we have already, we have 1 do not have the background in philosophy to be able to already gone far beyond what our Federal Congressmen have you what goes through a man Or a mind when already done, and I hopc that we will take seriously any further they go Out there to terrorize and kill. And I think we are motions on restricting gun control in Pennsylvania. forgetting, we in the rural area, whether it is listening to the Thank you, and 1 ask for your support to recommit the bill. garbage that comes from the cities and we Weam bemuse we The SPEAKER. For what purpose does the gentleman from Want it Or whether somebody wants toimpose gun Carbon rise? controls, the truth of the matter is that we cannot continue to Mr. McCALL. On the motion, Mr. Speaker. deal with this matter and we cannot have it hanging over our ~h~ SPEAKER, ~h~ gentleman is recognized may heads. And we in Clea~f~eldor Centre or wherever, we feel our proceed. good people will not do what some of those have done across Mr. McCALL. 'I'hank you, Mr. Speaker. this Commonwealth. It is not the majority; it is, fortunately, Mr. Speaker, I oppose the motion to recommit. only the very smallest, minute minority that would hurt another Mr. Speaker, we have worked diligently to get HB 185 human being. just ban a weapon Or characteriz moved. As a matter of fact, this issue came to the forefront of W"dPnsas assault Or characterize people who chamber the threat of a discharge rcso~ulionbeing have a hunting license or a gun as bad people is not right. So placed on the calendar to have HH 185 moved. even though those of us in our area understand, we simply ask you to understand where we are coming from. 2320 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE DECEMBER 15

I think we ought to deal with this and we ought not to members as to exactly what an assault weapon is, what it allow it to be recommitted to a committee. Thank you very represents, and where we should go as a legislature in much. supplying the safety to the people who have the potential of t The SPEAKER The gentleman from Philadelphia, Mr. king incarcerated as a result of having a weapon of this type. Richardson, on the motion to recommit. This legislation is extremely complicated and, in my Mr. RICHARDSON. Mr. Speaker, I rise to oppose the opinion, afler hearing what was discussed in this House, is in motion to recommit, and I do so for several reasons. need of much more discussion in a committee that understands One, it is ironic that we are here today dealing with an the issue. Many of us on this floor are not as aware of issue that many individuals on the floor of this House have weapons as those who would be on the Fish and Game tried to avoid overwhelmingly, but because of the insistence of Committee where this legislation should be, and I suppolt Mr. Godshall and other members that said that this issue had recommittal. Thank you. to come up right now, it seemed to me that everybody felt that The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Philadelphia, Mr. , this was an issue that was not going to cause as much conilict Williams, is recognized on the motion to recommit. and confusion as it has caused at this present moment. Mr. WILLIAMS. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. And I believe that everyone needs to understand that you Mr. Speaker, as one who has the responsibility of cannot have it both ways. You cannot have it both ways and representing the 21 Democrats from Philadelphia County along then assume and feel that now when it becomes crunchtime, with Mr. Rieger, I find it ironic that today we are standing that you want to back up and get out of this situation. We are here- Mr. Speaker? saying confront it. Let us everyone vote. Let us everyone put The SPEAKER. The Chair would request that the members their votes up on the table. Let us not be scared and afraid now limit their dialogue to conversations of two. that you forced this issue on many of the members who have The gentleman may proceed. asked and begged you not to bring this issue up. Mr. WILLIAMS. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. And because of asking and begging not to bring this issue As one who represents the 21 Democrats from Philadelphia, up, you tried to ram it down our throats. Now is the time to 1 have always found it a bit ironic that we had to debate this understand that the ramming is being dealt the other way, and issue at all. Understand that we from Philadelphia have at this particular moment, all of us feel very strongly about the respected the rights and the rules of other counties across the fact that we need to put our votes up so that people will know State of Pennsylvania. HB 185 was created with one intent, where we stand on this whole question of assault weapons. one intent, and that was to override what Philadelphia County I oppose this motion to recommit, and I think it is about and Pittsburgh felt to be in their own self-interests. time that we understand the reality of life, and that is that This is not that complicated to understand. Of the 32 or 33 many individuals in this Commonwealth are sick and tired of or if it is 44 amendments that appear today, there is one issue the gun issue being confronted in the manner that is causing before us, and that is, will Philadelphia County and Pittsburgh, the deaths. There is a right to bear anns, but at the same time along with increasing numbers across this State, have the right as there is a right to bear anns in the city of Philadelphia and to decide what they shall do with regard to firems in their all across the Commonwealth and across this country and by communities? If people have a problcm with that as a the Constitution saying that we have a right to bear arms, we legislative body, then we should he allowed to vote on this should not be in a position to watch innocent people get shot statewide ban. That will correct this discussion across the and killed police officers and the like get killed, innocent board - across the board. If people are concerned about the people being killed, all because we are saying that people have issue of 66 counties prescribing what they should do, then they a right to bear arms in all of our streets in the Commonwealth simply should support the statewide ban. of Pennsylvania. The six police officers who died in Philadelphia County not It is about time that we deal with this issue. It is the time more than 2 to 3 weeks ago are crying out from their graves. when everyone realizes the importance. Let us go forward, let They are clying out from their graves for us not to hide from us vote these amendments, and let us take care of the people's this issue any longer. business. You wanted this issue; you got it. Now let us not be Mr. RYAN. Mr. Speaker? t afraid and let us vote for HR 185 up or down. The SPEAKER. Mr. Ryan. For what purpose does the The SPEAKER The Chair thanks the gentleman. gentleman rise? Mr. Serafini from Luzeme is recognized. Mr. RYAN. Mr. Speaker, I made a fairly simple, forthright The Chair would politely discourage more than two motion that I am really surprised is generating all the members from gatheling and would assert unequivocally to the excitement it is generating. I mean, we either want to recommit Sergeants at Arms that staff will be seated. Staff will be it or we do not want to recommit it. seated. I understand we can argue about a lot of tlungs, but 1 do Mr. Serafini, you may proceed. not think this is the appropriate time to argue about the merits Mr. SERAFINI. Mr. Speaker, I believe that this discussion of the bill. You know, I do not care how anybody votes on- which we have had on the floor of the House yesterday and I do care, but, I mean, let us just vote whether we are going to somewhat this morning expresses a confusion among the keep going or we are going to recommit it. I think that is what LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE is before the House. the committee; they do not want it to wait until sometime far The SPliAKEK. The gentleman would politely request that in a distant future where they remain threatened within their all members on both sides of the issue do their best to indicate communities, where they remain threatened within their homes reasons why the bill should or should not be recommitted; about what is happening. They want us to take action, Mr. should or should not be recommitted. Speaker. The gentleman, Mr. Ryn's point is in order and is well 1 will remind folks that this week's Time magazine has a taken. The gentleman, Mr. Williams, may continue. fmnt-page cover story on the issue of handguns and guns and Mr. WILLIAMS. Thank you. weapons in our communities. That is an indication enough that As I was saying, those police officers fmm Philadelphia we must take action now. County, that mother that was 7 months' pregnant that was I am urging everyone in this legislature to vote "no" on wounded and countless others, children who are maimed every recommittal, and let us move forward aggressively to do what day, do not desire for us to avoid tlus issue any longer. They we need to do about assault weapons in this Commonwealth. are simply asking for us to vote on amendments which are The SPEAKER The Chair thanks the gentleman for before us, and therefore, I have to stand in opposition to the keeping his remarks to the motion to recommit and asks the current motion for recommittal. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. gentleman, Mr. Geist, to move forward with his debate on the The SPEAKER The Chair thanks Mr. Williams and motion to recommit. recognizes Representative Teresa Brown. Mr. GEIST you very much, Mr. Speaker. I will not be .reading Time magazine to you; I will simply Mrs. BROWN. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The SPEAKER. Mrs. Bmwn's voice is not as mbust a? be telling you that in confening with our friends, the some of the rest of us. I personally would like to hear what sportsmen and sportswomen of Pennsylvania, on this vote, this she has to say. Members will please take their seats. Members is a very positive vote. A vote to recommit will give us a will please take their seats unless it is imperative that you chance to go over these amendments with people on those amble about. committees who understand this issue, can cut through the Mrs. Bmwn, you are recognized. emotionalism of it, and come back to the floor of this General Mrs. BROWN. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Assembly with a workable piece of legislation. I have been patiently sitting in my seat listening to Like Bud George, those folks in Blair County who have everyone speak on this issue. I have a lot to say about HB 185 been born and raised with this issue and understand this issue and the amendments. probably find it very difficult to understand how emotional it I tlunk the point has come in this debate on the issue of is coming out of the cities. At the same time, we wonder if recommittal, and I would also like to support that idea for the those people in the cities understand what this issue means to simple reason that it will go into Game and Fisheries, and I us. feel that the members on that committee are very capable of A chance to work these bills in committee will be a chance handling that issue. to bring better legislation to the floor of the House. If this I would like to ask my colleagues on both sides of the aisle recommittal motion fails, we are fdly prepared to vote these for a recommittal vote. Thank you. amendments. But, Mr. Speaker, I would urge that, first, we The SPEAKER. The Chair thanks the lady and recogni7xs would allow sane and rational people on this committee to Vincent Hughes of Philadelphia on the motion to recommit; on work this legislation, to come back to the floor of tk House the motion to recommit. with a meaningfd bill. I urge a "yes" vote on recommittal. Mr. HUGHES. Mr. Speaker, specifically on the motion to Thank you. recommit, I stand, probably without much question, in The SPEAKER The Chair thanks the gentleman and opposition to that. recognizes the gentleman fmm Elk County on the motion to It is clear to me that the people of the State of recommit, Mr. Sum. Pennsylvania want to have an opportunity for their legislators Mr. SURRA. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. to make decisions about what is happening with crime and Mr. Speaker, on the motion to recommit, not 20 minutes violence in our communities, and they want to have an ago in the back of the chamber I spoke with the representatives opportunity for us to make positive decisions about what is from the NRA and the Federation of Sportsmen, and they happening with assault weapons. indcated to me that they wanted to run the bill now. So Mr. I want to have the constituents in my district know that I Phillips' letter saying that they wanted to recommit, 1 got took effective, positive action to deal with some of the conflicting information. weapons that are on this list, Mr. Speaker. Folks want to know Regardless of what their position is, Mr. Speaker, we have about these lands of weapons. Folks want to know that we to stop practicing avoidance representation. This is a critical took action on these kinds of weapons, that the 223 which is issue to the people of Pennsylvania. Be you rural or be you banned, the FNC, the LAW-12 shotgun, all of these, the TEC- like my good friend, Vince Hughes, from the city, we get paid 9, the people in our State want us to take effective action on to do this job. Let us not avoid our responsibility. Let us bring these matters. They do not want us to wait. They do not want it up and vote on it today. us to wait until afler the holidays; they do not want it to go in We have dealt with this 3 different days on this floor; this 2322 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE DECEMBER 15 is the third day. Let us not avoid the issue. I do not want to go preemption. I am now saying today, Mr. Speaker, that home for Christmas vacation and leave this issue hanging. Let unfortunately, some of us will win and some of us will lose, us vote it. but the bottom line is, we need to represent the people we do, I urge a "no" vote on recommittal. Thank you. and I would oppose the motion for recommittal. Ihank you, The SPEAKER. The Chair thanks the gentleman and Mr. Speaker. recognizes the gentleman from Philadelphia on the motion to The SPEAKER. 'me Chair thanks the gentleman from recommit, Mr. Taylor. Philadelphia. Mr. TAYLOR. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as a member from Philadelphia I just want PARLIAMENTARY INQUIRY to express that we currently have a valid ban on assault weapons in Philadelphia; we have a valid ban on assault The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from weapons in Pittsburgh, and this motion to recommit would Somerset, Mr. Lloyd. establish that those bans stay in place for some time. Mr. LLOYD. Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask a ' Secondly, Mr. Speaker, it would give everybody an parliamentary inquiry. opportunity to come up with a statewide plan that makes sense, The SPEAKER. The gentleman will state his point. and we now have in front of us a bill with some 36 Mr. LLDYD. Mr. Speaker, I thought that the motion was amendments, many of which have nothing at all, nothing at all to recommit to Game and Fisheries, but I know from talking to do with weapons. The only vote in the last few days that to a number of other members that there is some confusion as makes much sense, Mr. Speaker, is this vote, a positive vote, to whch committee would receive this bill if this motion were on the motion to recommit. to pass, and 1 wonder if you could restate the motion. The SPEAKER. The Chair thanks Mr. Taylor and The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Delaware, Mr. Ryq recognizes Mr. Sturla. when he made the motion, indicated that the Game and Fish Committee would be the recipient of the amendment and the Mr. STURLA. Mr. Speaker, on the motion to recommit, it . .., is true that there are some 30 to 40 amendments, and my contention is that even if we recommitted this to Game and Mr. LLOYD. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Fisheries, because of the sponsors of those amendments, it On the motion. would come out of Game and Fisheries and we would have 30 The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Somerset is to 40 amendments on the floor again afler it came out of Game recognized. and Fisheries. For that reason I would suggest that we vote Mr. LLOYD. Mr. Speaker, I have had several conversations "no" on the motion to recommit. in the last 5 minutes with people who are here in the Capitol The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from representing sportsmen's organizations, the NRA and others, Philadelphia, Mr. Evans, on the motion to recommit. and 1 would have to say that there is some confusion at this Mr. EVANS. Mr. Speaker, in this process on this floor, point about what the best course of action on this motion is. sometimes there will be winners and losers, and sometimes we I am going to vote not to recommit this bill, because I have to make decisions and decisions we do not like. I have believe that we ought to defeat the Michlovic amendment. We been, since the years I have been here, I have been on both ought to keep the bill as it has been amended so far and send sides. I have won some and 1 have lost some. But in California that hack to the Senate. they banned assault weapons; in New Jersey they banned I believe that when we started this process, we started with assault weapons; in Connecticut they banned assault weapons. the assumption that if the bill did not move, the cities would We in Pennsylvania have to face up to this issue. Some of us get what they wanted, and I am concerned that if we put this are going to lose and some of us are going to win, but the bill back into committee, even though the Game and Fisheries bottom line is the people of the Commonwealth of Committee will, I am sure, be favorably disposed toward my Pennsylvania. point of view on the substantive issue, then we are going to So I would ask, Mr. Speaker, that we oppose the motion to have an argument that the bill ought to go to the recommit, that we send a message that we are prepared to deal Appropriations Committee for a fiscal note on whatever * with this issue. It is unfortunate that there has to be winners amendments are put in, and we arc going to lose control of this and losers, but the reality of it, Mr. Speaker, is that we need bill. The members here on the floor will lose control to those to deal with this particular issue. people who have a different point of view than we do, and I A gentleman I heard on the other side, one of the think that the only way to keep this issue alive and to assure gentlemen, said, we need more time to deal with this question; that we get an opportunity to try to do what the sportsmen of we need to get it away from the emotionalism. Well, Mr. this State want is to keep the bill on the floor, and the only Speaker, about a week or 2 weeks ago I raised that very same way to do that is to defeat the motion to recommit. Thank you, concern in the Rules Committee. I said the exact same thing, Mr. Speaker. that we needed to leave the ban intact in Philadelphia and I * Pittsburgh. I was told when I offered that particular On the question recurring, amendment we needed to deal with the question of local 1 Will the House agree to the motion? LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE

The following roll call was recorded: On the question recurring, Will the House agree to the amendments? YEAS-79 Scheetz I Adolph Fargo Lee VOTE CORRECTIONS Allen Fichter Lynch Schuler Argall Fleagle Mailland Semmel The SPEAKER The gentleman, Mr. Saylor, is recognized. Armstrong Flick Marslco Serafini Barley Ganooo Masland Smith, B. On what point does the gentleman rise? Bimlin Geist Mew Snyder, D. W. Mr. SAYLOR My buttons did not work on the last vote. Boyes Gerlash Micome Stairs I would like to be recorded "yes." Bmwn Gladeck Miller Stdl The SPEAKER. The gentleman's remarks will be spread Runt Godshall Nailor Stem Carone Gordner Niekol Taylor, E. Z. across the record. The Chair thanks the gentleman. Cawley G~mw Nyce Taylor, I. Mr. GAMBLE. Mr. Speaker? Cessar Hennessey O'Bnen Tigue 711e SPEAKER Mr. Gamble. For what purpose does the Chadwick llerman Piccola Todinson gentleman rise? Civera Hmhey F'itts Tme Clark Hutchinsan Platts Llliana Mr. GAMBLE. Mr. Speaker, I was not recorded, and I Clwr Jadlowim Raymond Vanss want to be recorded in the negative. Canti Kenney Reber Wau& I would like to make a request that we go back to the old Dmce King Rohrm Wogan system. Durham Krebs Rubley wnght, M. N. Egolf Lawless Sather The SPEAKER. The Chair thanks the gentleman, and his request will be honored. NAYS-105 The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Sham, Baker Fairchild Lloyd Rudy Pennsylvania, Mr. Gmitza. Battido Fajt Lucyk Santooi Mr. GRUITZA. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Bebko-Jonos Farmer Mandenno Sawn Mr. Speaker, I was not recorded either. I would request to Belardi Pee Markosek Scrimenti Relfsoti Frcfman Mayemik Staback be recorded in the negative. Bishop Gmrge McCall Steelman 'The SPEAKER. The Chair thanks the gentleman, and his Blaum Gipliotti McGeehan stnghoer remarks will be spread across the record for the motion to Butko~ik Hanna McNally Stetler Ruxton Harley Melio Stish recommit. Caltagirooe Hasay Michlovic Sturla The gentleman from Bucks, Mr. Corrigan, is recognized. Cappabianca Hess Mihalich Sum Mr. CORRIGAN. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Cam Hughes Mundy Tangetti My switch malfunctioned. I would like to be recorded in Cohsn, I.. 1. Itkin MW~Y Thomas Cohen, M. James O'Donnell Trello the negative on the motion to recommit. Thank you. Colafella Iarolin Oliver Trich The SPEAKER The Chair thanks the gentleman. His Colaiao Josephs ~esn Van Home remarks will be spread across the record. Corndl Kakr Petrone Vm Mrs. Laughlin is recognized. Cowell Kasunis Phillips Vitali COY Keller Pistella Washinson For what purpose does the gentleman rise? Mr. Ryan. Cun~ KirWand Preston Wmmiak Mr. RYAN. Mr. Speaker, I was deeply engrossed in Daley Kukovish Reinard Wright, D. R. conversation at the time that vote was taken. I neglected to DeLuca LaCrotta Kichardson Yandnsevlts vote on my own motion, which of course would have been in Dempsey Laub Ritter YeGc Dent Lode~er Raberts the affirmative. Demody Leh Robinson The SPEAKER The Chair thanks the gentleman. Dooatucci Lerovllz Raehrck Mrs. Laughlin is recognized. Evans Levdansky Rmney Mrs. LAUGHLIN. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. NOT VOTNG-14 My switch did not function. I would like to be recorded in Comgan Laughlin Saylor Tulli the negative. Gamble Peml Smith, S. H. Williams The SPEAKER The Chair thanks the lady. Gmitza Pettit Striumauer zug Relative to all of these requests, it should be restated that Haluska Ryan the gentleman, Mr. Zubeck, and our internal stafforganization is working to make sure that the mechanism iimctions in a way that it has traditionally hctioned. Am- Olae Petrarca Bush Mr. Penel is recognized. Mr. PERZEL. Mr. Speaker, I was speaking with Mr. Ryan, and I neglected to vote. I would like my vote in the The question was determined in the negative, and the affirmative. motion waq not agreed to. The SPEAKER. The Chair thanks the gentleman. 2324 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE DECEMBER 15

CONSIDERATION OF HB 185 CONTINUED I make it so easy for adults who are disgmntled- and sometimes deranged to easily obtain assault weapons and later take their The SPEAKER Mr. Taylor is recogwed. anger out on innocent bystanders. Mr. Speaker, it is not Mr. TAYLOR. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. sportsmanlike. I believe, Mr. Speaker, that it is downright t Mr. Speaker, in response to one of the more eloquent insane. comments on the floor yesterday that many of us in this body Mr. Speaker, it makes me wonder how far backwards we just do not get it, I would like to respond to that, Mr. Speaker, have gone as a society when we stand on the House floor in by saying, yes, we do get it, or at least I get what this is all favor of murder, when we stand on the House floor in favor of about. violence, and when we stand on the House floor in favor of What we are doing here today and what we did yesterday weapons of war. is clearly a vote on the interest of the rural community versus Mr. Speaker, what we need to say here today is that we the the interest of the city and the subwbs, and what are those House of Representatives will not support the war games that interests, Mr. Speaker? For the city, Mr. Speaker, we are trying , are being played on our streets, on our playgrounds, our to prevent further death, further carnage, further destmction on classrooms, and yes, even in our corporations. Why? Because our city streets day in and day out. I was convinced about the when we play these games, there is no tomorrow for the way I am going to vote on the Michlovic amendment by victims, because these games ultimately end in death. understanding the rural interest, and the rural interest in this Mr. Speaker, war is hell, and it is time that we as vote is whether or not those citizens of those counties are legislators remove the hell from our communities and our allowed to pursue certain games, certain manners of recreation, Commonwealth. We can take a bold step today towards doing certain sport. We in this body have a duty to vote on each just that by voting in favor of the Michlovic amendment. other's interests many times, and we are weighing death by Thank you, Mr. Speaker. gunfire versus sport. I would suggest to my rural colleagues that it is time to put the interests of Pennsylvania in general, and especially those of Philadelphia and Pittsburgh, and have VOTE CORRECTIONS those interests outweigh games. The SPEAKER The gentleman, Mr. Tony Williams, Mr. Speaker, one of the comments yesterday also talked indicates that his switch was malfunctioning, and he would like about the Michlovic amendment as being a technical to be recorded in the negative on the motion to recommit. The amendment. Well, if you come from Philadelphia like I do, gentleman's remarks will be spread across the record. Mr. Speaker, and go to funerals and talk to mothers of slain The gentleman, Dr. Haluska, is recognized. children and talk to wives of slain policemen, this is not Mr. HALUSKA. Mr. Speaker, my switch was not recorded. technical at all. I mean, I would like to be voted in the negative on Mr. Speaker, we have an oppottunity to dismiss the recommittal. preemption issue by a positive vote on the Michlovic The SPEAKER Your remarks will be spread across the amendment. Thank you. record. The SPEAKER The gentleman, Mr. Kirkland, is recqpized on the Michlovic amendment. CONSIDERATION OF HB 185 CONTINUED Mr. KIRKLAM). Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, it was once said that a picture is wolth a The SPEAKER Mr. Itkin is recognized on the Michlovic thousand words, or in this case, 203 votes in favor of the amendment. Michlovic amendment. Mr. ITKIN. Mr. Speaker, listen to this list: Mr. Speaker, while listening to the debate here on the "...bomb, grenade, machine gun, sawed-off shotgun, firearm House floor yesterday and today, I began to look through this specially made or specially adapted for concealment or silent packet containing photos of various assault weapons, and it is discharge, any blackjack, sandbag, metal knuckles, dagger, my belief, Mr. Speaker, that these weapons are not made for knife, razor or cutting instrument, the blade of which is sports or for show, but instead, they were manufactured for exposed in an automatic way by switch, push-button, spring t war purposes. Mr. Speaker, as we all know, especially those mechanism, or otherwise, or other implement for the infliction who have served in the Armed Forces during war times, war of serious bodily injury which serves no common lawful was and still is today hell. purpose." Mr. Speaker, hell has invaded our communities, our Would you want to be the target of someone carrying one schools, and yes, even our homes by way of these assault of these weapons? Would you want to stand near a stranger weapons, and some of us here in the legislature believe it to be who is hiding a grenade in his jacket? Is it in your best interest sportsmanlike and fitting to allow it to be present. to anger someone with a blackjack in his hand? Mr. Speaker, it is not sportsmanlike when we make it so If the answer to those questions is no, then you had better easy for young people, Mr. Speaker, to be able to obtain and vote for the Michlovic amendment, because that list I just b even purchase assault weapons and later kill one another or recited is from Purdon's Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes another individual because they are unable to settle disputes Annotated, Title 18, "Crimes and Offenses." All of those items intelligently. Mr. Speaker, it is not sportsmanlike when we 1993 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE 2325 are considered "offensive weapons" in this State, and their Let us not preempt local governments; let us preempt criminals possession, sale, or manufacture is illegal. instead. Why are AK47's and Uns not on that list? They can do a Last week a madman killed five people on a New York lot more damage to a lot more people in a lot less time than a subway, shooting them with a9-millimeter handgun. Everyone pair of metal knuckles. They can be just as destmctive as a is talking about it, but allow me to mention another recent grenade. They can kill quicker than a mrand, honifylngly, incident that was not nearly as deadly but which I think is just can be just as easily concealed. as scary. Assault weapons kill people. That is all they are meant to Also last week, a teacher at Bishop McDevitt High School, do. They were not designed for hunting animals. They were a Catholic school right here in Harrisburg, was shot in the back not designed for good, clean sport. of the head while he graded papers in his classroom; shot in They were designed to kill people. They were designed to the back of the head. squash rioters in South Africa. They were designed for police I will say it again, so you can really think about the SWAT (special weapons and tactics) teams. They were implications: A teacher was shot in the back of the head when designed as semiautomatic imitations of fully automatic he graded papers in his classroom. military weapons. 'Re shooting was not committed with an assault weapon, Assault weapons kill people. They kill police officers in and thankfully, the teacher was not seriously wounded. uniform, and they kill children in schoolyards. Even the But tell me this: What kind of society are we building canniest veteran of the toughest police department in the world when people have no compunction about ambushing a teacher has no defenqe against someone with an AK-47 in hand. in his classroom? How long before those ambushes are planned Just 2 days ago, this IIouse honored two Harrisburg police for police oficers on the streets? How long before bright, officers who were wounded in the line of duty. Would it not young, dedicated people decide that a career in law be ironic if I day after honoring them for putting their lives on enforcement or teaching simply is not worth the risk? Who the line, we put them in even greater danger by condoning the will protect our streets and educate our children then? unfettered sale of assault weapons? We are letting the deadliest weapons get into the hands of If you plan to vote against this amendment, stop a moment. people who use them at the slightest provocation. Why? Why Take a good look at what you are doing. Supporters of HB 185 are there law-ahidng gun owners out there who will not accept say, "Don't take my gun away from me. Instead, thmw the some small responsibility for their weapons? Why will they not criminal in jail. Don't coddle him. Send him up the river and join us, instead of fighting us, in the effort to make sure that take away his TV and his exercise equipment and his law guns are used only for lawful purposes? It just does not make books. Don't give him any luxuries." sense. But what is the ultimate luxury to someone who wants to A vote against this amendment is a vote that supports the get rid of an enemy, or even an unfortunate stranger who is status quo. It is a vote that has given up all hope of ever perceived as an enemy? What is the one thing that person malung our streets safe. It is avote that lumps law-abiding gun wants more than anything else in the world? owners and criminal gun owners into one uncontmllable, Why, a gun, of course. The more powerful, the better. And indefensible mob. the worst part is, thcy can get them. Guns are easy to find. It is not a vote in support of personal responsibility. It is Guns are everywhere. Guns are as easy to acquire as kitchen not a vote that says, "Guns don't kill people; people kill knives. people." This country is not gun-loving anymore; it is gun- Instead, it is a vote against personal responsibility. It is a gluttonous. Our longtime love for guns has tumed into a fatal vote that abrogates every Pennsylvanian's responsibility for a attraction. system that casually hands guns to criminals and then hollers Well, it is time to stop disclaiming responsibility for the "Off with their heads" when they actually commit crimes with deaths caused by an insatiable appetite for guns. In past years, them. the easy argument against gun control was, "Guns don't kill Do not be afraid of this vote. Do not let the bad guys toting people; people kill people." TEC-9's win this fight by virtue of sheer tenor. Americans Well, that argument just does not wash these days. There want to get criminals off the streets, but they want to get are people out there who do not care who they kill or why. deadly weapons off the streets, too. Let us help them. Let us They are not afraid of punishment, and they have no guilt over ban assault weapons in Pennsylvania. Thank you. the anguish they cause. They are getting younger and younger, The SPEAKER. The gentleman, Mr. Gannon, on the and we are letting weapons fall into their hands. Michlovic amendment. We are a society that cherishes guns, encourages their use, Mr. GANNON. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. manufactures them with abandon, and defends their ownership Mr. Speaker, the majority leader just gave a very eloquent to an irrational degree. The question today is, are we willing speech about the problems of guns in America that had to become responsible members of this society? Are we willing absolutely nothing to do with assault weapons. to take action to keep deadly weapons out of the wrong hands? Washington, DC, has an outright ban on handguns, guns of any kind, Mr. Speaker, yet they had 1,398 murders committed 2326 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE DECEMBER 15 with guns since 1990-92, and of those, only 6 were ever Mr. Speaker, even assuming that the Second Amendment convicted, and every one of those crimes was committed by a deals with this issue, which is something that 1 doubt and criminal with an illegally obtained weapon. many people doubt, the fact that there is a constitutional Now, Mr. Speaker, I have looked the Michlovic amendment provision does not stop regulation. All this is, is regulation. - over very carefully, and it does contain a list of some of the Other States - Connecticut, New Jersey, elsewhere - have weapons here which I do not think anyone has a legitimate regulated the sale of assault weapons in the same manner the reason to possess. However, also contained on this list are Michlovic amendment does. Those laws have been upheld. In legitimate weapons that are used by sportsmen throughout this the whole dispute about the Brady bill, there was no mention Commonwealth and probably throughout this county. The at all of constitutionality. It is universally agreed that the Brady problem I have with that element where we have these bill is constitutional. The State of Pennsylvania, under our legitimate spottsman weapons and they are now being banneQ police powers, has the power to define what offenses are and what we are doing is taking law-abiding, honest citizens who to set forth reasonable penalties for violation of the offenses. ,, happen to own sportsman weapons and we are turning them The Michlovic amendment is consistent with all other into criminals. We are turning law-abiding people into criminal law. It is constitutional. I urge you to reject this criminals simply because they own a weapon that they use frivolous argument and uphold the constitutionality of the honestly, they uphold the law, never intending or never even Michlovic amendment. thinking in their life of harming anyone. The SPEAKER. The gentleman, Mr. Preston, on the issue For that reason, Mr. Speaker, I am looking at the United of constitutionality. States Constitution, which provides that the right to keep and Mr. PRESTON. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. bear arms shall not be infringed and also looking at the I have always appreciated the gentleman's short form of Pennsylvania Constitution, which provides that the right to intellect, hut this really surprises me. keep and bear arms shall not be questioned. The Constitution, if he just reads the chapter, says you have Now, the lawyers here know that the courts have said that a right to bear arms. It does not say what type. It does not there can be reasonable regulation without infiingement of a limit you to what tp.That is very basic, simple constitutional constitutional right, and that is to keep the public order and for language, and anybody who has basic common sense should be public good. I have no problem with that, Mr. Speaker, and I able to read that it does not limit you to what types it can be. have told any number of members on the floor that I was We can bar evey different form of handgun or whatever it is willing to support some type of a compromise, if it was as long as we leave something there that is a form of an arm possible, to target in on those weapons that you just cannot for you to have a right to bear. All the gentleman is doing is justify ownership of - for example, a Street Sweeper. wasting the taxpayers' time and money, and this is definitely a constitutional amendment. CONSTITUTIONAL POINT OF ORDER The SPEAKER The gentleman, Mr. Gannon, is recognized for the second time on constitutionality. Mr. GANNON. For that reason, Mr. Speaker, I am going Mr. GANNON. Mr. Speaker, I would like to urge the to raise the constitutionality of the Michlovic amendment. members for the reasons that I stated to vote that this is I am particularly concerned about the severe penalties that ,,,titut,onal, would be placed upon individuals who presently own Mr. Speaker, one of the reasons that we wanted to refer legitimate sportsman-type weapons that are on this list. this bill hack to the committee was to hopefully come up with Mr. Speaker* I would like to the question of an amendment that was not tainted and that would pass constitutionality under the Federal and State Constitutions, constitutional muster, and at that time I think many of us felt dealing with the rights of citizens to keep and bear arms, and that was the only way to do that, N~~ I the H~~~~ has the Pennsylvania Constitution, dealing with the right to bear to address that issue, looking at the drastic that this not being questioned, to own aims not being questioned. amendment holds for honest, law-abiding citizens that hold The SPEAKER The Chair thanks the gentleman. legitimate spolts weapons. The gentleman, Mr. GannOn, raises lhe point of Mr. Speaker, I urge a vote that this is unconstitutional. constitutionality on the Michlovic amendment. The SPEAKER. Those voting "aye" will vote to declare the Under rule 4, the Speaker is required to submit the question amendment to be constitutional: those GC~~~~will vote to concerning constitut~onality of an amendment to the House for declare the amendment unco~t,tution~~ decision.~~ ~ ~ which the Chair now does. On the question recurring, On the question, Will the House sustain the constitutionality of the Will the House sustain the constitutionality of the amendments? The following roll call was recorded: The SPEAKER The Chair recognizes the gentleman, Mr. Cohen on constitutionalitv. YEAS-I00 M;. COHEN. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Adolph Dluce Lescovitz Rubley Ballisto Evans Levdansky Rudy LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE 2327 r Bebko-Jones Fajt Lucyk Santoni VOTE CORRECTIONS Belardi Farmer Manderino Saumn Bishop Freeman McGeehan Serafil The SPEAKER For what purpose does the gentlelady rise? Blaurn Gigliolli McNally Snyder, D. W Ms. JOSEPHS. To correct the record. Butkovitz Haluska Melio Staback Buaon Harley Michlovic Steelman I pushed the affirmative button. It was up there. It Caltagirooe Hasay Micozie Stkl disappeared when you closed the screen. It just was not on. Cappabianca Hennessey Mihalich Stetler The SPEAKER The Chair apologizes to the lady. Cam Hughes Mundy Sturla Mr. Ryan and myself just had dialogue with the Camne Ilkin Murphy Sum Cawley James O'Brien Tangmi technicians, and this will be the last day that we will be voting C-r Kaisor O'Donnell Taylor, J. with the switches operating in the manner that they are Cohen, L. I. Kasunic Oliver Thomas operating. The Chair apologizes. Cohen, M. Keller Pe* Tigue Calafella Kenney Petmne T"ch The gentleman, Mr. Roebuck, is recognized. Comell Kirkland Pistella Uliaoa Mr. ROEBUCK. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Conigan Krebs Preston Van Home I, too, attempted to vote on the last motion. I want to be Cowell Kukovich Rknard veoo recorded in the affirmative. curry LaGrotta Richardson Vitali Daley Laub Ritter Washngton The SPEAKER The Chair thanks the gentleman. DeLuca Laughlin Robnls Williams Mr. Smith is recognized. Dent Lpderer Robinson Wogan Mr. S. H. SMITH. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Donatucci Lee Rwney Yandrisevits To correct the record. LYS-94 On the motion to recommit of Representative Ryan's, my button malfunctioned, and I intended to vote for the motion to Allen Fichter 1,y"ch Schuler Argall Fleagle Maitland Scrimenti recommit. Armstrong Flick Markosek Semmel The SPEAKER The Chair thanks the gentleman and Baker Gamble Mamco Smith, B. recognizes Mr. Penit. Barley Gaonoo Masland Smith, S. H. Mr. PETIR. Mr. Speaker, would like to correct the Belfanti Gkst Maypmik Stain I Bimlin George McCall Slkher record. Boy- Gerlach Miller Stem On the motion to recommit, my switch did not work I Brown Gladeck Nailor Stish would like to be recorded in the negative. Bunt Godshall Nickol Strillmatter Chadwisk Gordner Nyce Taylor, E. Z. The SPEAKER The Chair thanks the gentleman. Civera Gruilza Penel Tomliosan Clark Gruw Pellit Trella ANNOUNCEMENT BY MINORITY LEADER Clymer Hanna Phillips True Cola- Herman Piccola Vane The SPEAKER Mr. Ryan. Conti Henhey Pitts Wsugh Mr. RYAN. I would like to make an announcement for the COY Hess Platts Womiak Dempwy Hutchinson Raymood Wright, D. R benefit of certain people, and I am going to read the names Dedy Jdowiec Reber Wright, M. N off, if I may, Mr. Speaker. You are familiar with this. Durham Jarolin Rohrer Yewcic The SPEAKER The gentleman may proceed. Egolf King Ryan zug Fairchild Lawless Salher Mr. RYAN. I just went to the rostm to point out to the Fargo Leh Saylor DeWeese, Speaker that on the motion to recommit, it would not change Fee 1,Ioyd Sch& Speaker the result, but there are about 12 or 13 of us who were not recorded. I am going to read the names out of those who were NOT VOTING4 not recorded and you should do something about it, and also, Jowphs Merry Raebuck Tulli I am suggesting you keep your eye on the list: Corrigan, Gamble, Gmitza, Haluska, Laughli~ Williams, Zug, Tulli, Strittmatter, Sam Smith, Saylor, Ryan, Penit, and Pe~zel. Acosta Olaz Potrarca Rieger Bush For the benefit of everyone, the Speaker has made anangements, thankfully, that the system will go back to the old system, where the machines were more predictable. Thank 'Ihe majority having voted in the affirmative, the question you, and 1 thank the Speaker for that. was determincd in the affirmative and the constitutionality of The SPEAKER. The Chair thanks the gentleman. the amendments was sustained. On the question recurring, CONSIDERATION OF HB 185 CONTINUED Will the House agree to the amendments? The SPEAKER. Does the gentleman, Mr. Richardson, desire to continue debate on the Michlovic amendment? 'I'he gentleman is recognized. 2328 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE DECEMBER 15

Mr. RICHARDSON. Thank you very much, Mr. citizens in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania are crying out. Speaker. I appreciate the oppomcnity. In fact, this issue has reached the number one top priority in Let me just say that there are a few things that I want to terms of the way people see violence and the issue of violence say about the Michlovic amendment as I stand in suppolt of it. within the community. W I come from Philadelphia, and some of you may not have We just recently, in our district, had a big meeting the remembered hack in the days of the gang days, when people other night where Representative Evans and myself and other considered young fellows in the streets and young ladies in the elected officials had to come to a room where 1,000 people streets who were ganged on and losing their lives. There was gathered because of the fact that there had been a shootout at a time when the peak of that season was very high in terms of the school where they had to close the school down. It was by deaths within the community, and at that time it was the insistence of the school board president and others who considered to be that those individuals that were being shot gathered to say that we need to get more community down or stabbed and killed in the streets of the city of involvement and parental involvement to come to the schools Philadelphia, it was very awesome. The Philadelphia Bulletin to protect the children's right to be able to go to school at that time, when it was in existence, and the Inquirer used to because there have been assault weapons, and even with metal post every day the number of deaths in a little box in a corner detectors and what have you, it still has not halted crime. every single day of the number of deaths created by gang For some nason we have this position in our minds: On warfare in the streets of the city of Philadelphia. That number one hand we want to talk about stop the violence, end the continued to grow as gangs saw that and saw that as a violence; stop the silence, end the violence, hut at the same promotion to try to show that their comer could outkill time we do not want to stop assault weapons. It is a somebody else's comer. contradiction of fact. You cannot have it both ways. There has Then we got out of that and then dmgs became very got to be a way that people understand that guns kill. It is no prevalent in the late seventies and early eighties and began to question in my mind that those who have ammunition and the become a way which people used, as turf lines, to determine guns and the wherewithal to be able to go purchase them and their area. buy them on the streets of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania The Michlovic amendment speaks to all of these issues at any given time, at any given time, whether they were because it is far-reaching than just the issue of assault weapons brought from out of the country or brought from out of another and what we are dealing with today, because now it has State to our city, that they get in the hands of wrong people, transcended not only out of Philadelphia and Pittsburgh and and as a rcsult, people go out and they wind up shooting urban centers but also suburban centers. In fact, many of the people. We have had a number of police officers already killed connecting counties that are connected to Philadelphia have just this year, and no matter whether you try to assume that had violence. Crime and deaths and assault weapons travel they are not assault weapons or not, it is very clear to me, in across the county lines into their particular counties where my mind, that we cannot separate and understand the innocent people in their homes have been robbed and shot and separation of those who carry guns and those who feel that killed. On their way to stores, store owners and others have they carry a gun to kill. People do not carry guns unless they been killed, and while you may not feel that they have not know when you pull a gun, it is your aim to take somebody been caused by assault weapons, 1 can only indicate to you that out of here. in fact there have been a number of deaths by assault weapons. Being in a position to have assault weapons in the hands of In fact, recent statistics from the Centers for Disease Control a lot of people who do not know what to do with these assault will show that we have lost some 65,000 people due to death weapons, the other day we had a press conference where State by violent crime through guns, more than most wars that we Police officers- And 1 want to say to my good friend on the have had in this country, Mr. Speaker, and no one wants to other side of the aisle, whose son is a State Police officer, it is take that into account. wrong to feel that people who want to talk about We are dealing with a very dangerous situation here in the sporlsmanship can conclude this as being something that House of Representatives today by not realizing the importance should be intertwined with those who are sportsmen versus of what we are talking about in terms of assault weapons. those who are using the guns to try to take somebody's life out t Nobody is denying anybody the right to bear arms. 1 have been of here. We have got a gang-warfare mentality in this country. one of those who came out of the Panther movement, who People are being stuck up with assault weapons by driving came out of the right to stand for struggle and say that people their car. People are being snatched out of their car and having should have the right to bear ms, hut we never in any way, their car hijacked from them right on the streets of the shape, or form were talking about assault weapons and talking Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, and it is not only conducive about taking people's lives out of here to the point that when to Philadelphia and Pittshurgh hut in other counties. It is you talk about an assault weapon, you are talking abut a gun happening where store owners, who have been store owners for clip that can shoot anywhere from 20 to 30 particular rounds 35 or 40 years, are being shot down and killed in the streets of at a time. No one wants to consider that. In fact, people just the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, many of those with .. think that this is some kind of sportsmanship game. 'I'his is not assault weapons. a game with me. It is very serious, and many of the innocent 1993 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE 2329

Contrary to what you heard about many assault weapons prove to Pennsylvania that we are not afraid of this issue and are not used, maybe you have not seen all of the assault that we will vote for the Michlovic amendment. weapons. The packet that is on your desk indicates what these 'fie SPEAKER The last speaker we have is Mr. Hughes, assault weapons look like, and I do not believe that we should the last speaker we have on the Michlovic amendment. be in a position in 1993 to be telling our constituents that we The gentleman from Philadelphia is recognized. are not opposed to assault weapons in an era and time when Mr. HUGHES. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. violence is running so rampant and people are being destroyed I want to rise again in support of the Michlovic and killed every day. amendment. Finally, Mr. Speaker, I want to be very clear on this point. We have dealt with a number of issues and a number of It seems to me that we should understand violence and where topics as this discussion has gone on, and clearly, the real need violence comes from. When you talk about the root cause of in Pennsylvania is to have a real comprehensive discussion on crime, certainly we did not create it, but certainly television the issues of gun reform and how we deal with firearms within and movies and other kinds of visual aid have now illuminated this Commonwealth. the minds of may young people and older people who believe But I want to say, Mr. Speaker, as I was looking through that the best way to handle a situation is through the power of the list of weapons that we are proposing to ban across this a gun, and as a result, we do not have people who use State, that I noticed some things that are alarming and really common sense, reason, and logic to try to resolve most of the shocking. I noticed the Australian Automatic Arms SAR, and problems that deal with issues of conflict within our there is a comment behind it called "importation banned"; the community. halite AR-180, "importation banned"; the Beretta AR-70, We have sent a wrong message, and as a legislature, we "importation banned"-and I guess maybe I am giving some have an opportunity to send another message out there to all gunmaker some free publicity as I announce the names of the gangland bandits and all the dope pushers and all those some of these weapons, but that is okay-and on and on and individuals who have used this as an opportunity to try to take on, and there are some very frightening-looking weapons, the down other groups of people because they see that as a way of Heckler & Koch HK-91, "importation banned"; the Galil life for them. "New Jack City" is no joke. All these movies ARM, "importation banned." This stuff is rough-looking stuff, that you see on TV are no joke. The time has come for us to Mr. Speaker. realize the importance of those who want to deal with this What concerns me is that there is an attitude that seems to issue from a more pragmatic point of view. exist that it is okay to ban the importation of these weapons, Mr. Speaker, I cannot stress the importance and the that that is acceptable, that it is necessary, that it is good urgency of this Michlovic amendment and the fact that we public policy, but it is also at the same time okay to sell them must pass it to send a signal throughout the Commonwealth of domestically, to say that it is okay for our gun dealers in this Pennsylvania and join with other States who have made it very State and in this Nation to have those weapons sold by our clear that we cannot have assault weapons on the streets of our own people. It concems me to the point of, what are we really Commonwealth so they can destroy people. Guns destroy interested in? Are we interested in holding down the access to people, and we must do eve&ng that we possibly can to these weapons or are we really interested in trying to promote make sure we take off one part of the segment that is dealing the local sales and the local businesses in selling these very with that. destructive weapons, these vely destructive firearms, these The NRA ha. now probably made many individuals in this assault weapons? mom feel that there is a need for support for the NRA. I just A comment was made yesterday that in some areas, in want to let you know that intimidation and threats that have some locales, assault weapons are not used - assault weapons come down by those individuals who are representing the are not used in killing people, assault weapons are not used in interest of the NRA do not intimidate us one bit at all. In fact, the process of crime and violence - and that is good. But we we welcome any opportunity to challenge any of those need to become insttudve from Ulaf because if we do not individuals on the right to bear arms, but on assault weapons, move to ban assault weapons, if we do not move to take some they are totally wrong on this issue, and they need to get on aggressive action on assault weapons, then assault weapons board with what is happening in the Commonwealth of will be the next firearm that will be used; they will be used; Pennsylvania with the number of deaths that we have. In these weapons that I just pointed to in this document will be Philadelphia alone, last year there were over some 530 deaths. the things that are used. In fact, Deputy Police Commissioner We can ill afford to have anyone else killed, die, stomped out Seamon said, when he was here in Harrisburg on Monday with life in the streets of the city of Philadelphia or the a whole host of law enforcement people, that the TEC-9, Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. Mr. Speaker, we already which is on the list here, is the weapon of choice now within alone were up to mund 41 1 as of last month the city, and in fact, more and more people are using that Even though there has been a reduction in the kind of particular assault weapon to do the damage that they feel violent crime, assault weapons and other weapons have encouraged to do. indicated that there is still a major problem that must be Now, there was also a comment, Mr. Speaker, about resolved, and we in the legislature have an oppomnity to weapons do not kill; people do. I think it is that control or 2330 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE DECEMBER 15 regulation of weapons and assault weapons does not really balcony and have called me on the telephone and have come have an impact. by my office, that what you need to do is urge your legislators I would suggest to you, Mr. Speaker, and I want to submit to get behind the real root causes of crime and deal with those this for the record, an article, a column, which appeared in the kinds of problems, because if we dealt with those kinds of - Philadelphia Daily News on Wednesday, December 8,1993. In problems, then there would be no need to talk about assault thal column, by Ms. Jill Porter, she refers to the situation, a weapons and Uzis and AK-47's; we would not have to have comparison, a study that was done between Seattle, these discussions right now because we would he living in a Washington, and Vancouver, British Columbia, which are 140 society where evetyone would feel that they had equal access, miles apart, Mr. Speaker, and that they are very similar cities where there would be no mental difficulties for people to drive with respect to population and with respect to median income, them to use violent weapons in a destructive fashion, that with respect to unemployment, geography, climate, history, and everything would be dealt with and gun discussions would culture. The major difference between those two cities, Mr. become irrelevant. That is what the real issue is. That is what Speaker, is that Seattle has liberal gun laws and Vancouver, we need to be moving towards in this Commonwealth - an British Columbia, has very restrictive gun laws, very restrictive enlightened discussion about what we are going to do about the gun laws. Now, the murder rates between the two cities with root causes of crime, not locking everybody up and not just knives and all the other weapons was essentially the same, limiting this discussion on the issue of assault weapons. essentially the same. However, the rate of murders with guns I am urging everyone, Mr. Speaker, to get in touch with all was five times greater in Seattle. Two cities, very similar, of their constituents, not just a limited few, and to get caught except for their regulation of guns and firearms. Seattle, liberal up with the direction that this society is going and vote "yes" gun laws; Vancouver, British Columbia, restrictive gun laws. on the Michlovic amendment. Thank you very much. Regulation works; regulation works. I submit, Mr. Speaker, that we have been marginalizing this ARTICLE SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD whole discussion on firearms. I submit, Mr. Speaker, that we have been tough on crime, and I can get as emotional as Mr. HUGHES submitted an article for the Legislative anyone else in this room. I can rant and rave as anyone else in Journal. this room, hut I listened to the F.O.P. (Fraternal Order of (For article, see Appenhx.) Police); I listened to the Chiefs of Police Association; I listened to the Guardian Civic League; I listened to the State On the question recurring, Police; I listened to those folks, and they say that it is Will the IIouse agree to the amendments? appropriate to regulate assault weapons within this State, but I can get emotional as anyone else in this room, Mr. Speaker, CONSTITUTIONALITY OF and we can talk about the death and the destmction that comes AMENDMENT A4958 RECONSIDERED from firearms. The SPEAKER. The gentleman, Mr. Serafini. We have been tough on crime. We are in the process of Due to the fact that the debate took so long, the gentleman, completing our seventh new prison in the State of Mr. Serafini, has asked that we reconsider the constitutionality Pennsylvania totaling $600 million of construction costs. We of the Michlovic amendment. The motion that the gentleman have got mandatory sentences coming out of our ears in this offers is in order. Commonwealth. In 1980 the State appropriation for Corrections was $90 million. In 1990 the State appropriation On the question, for Corrections is $600 million. We are locking up everyone. Will the House agree to the motion? The Federal 1993 crime bill calls for 100,000 new police officers; it calls for the consmction of new Federal prisons. The SPEAKER On the motlon of const~tutionality, does We are being tough on crime. the gentleman, Mr. Serafini, wish to be recornzed? The The challenge right now, Mr. Speaker, bepnd the whole gentleman indicates he does not. issue of HB 185, beyond the issue of the Michlovic \r amendment. is what are we, as a leeislature,- -eoine - to do about POINT OF ORDER the root causes of crime? When are we going to get to the real The SPEAKER Mr. Coy is recognized. For what purpose issues that deal with crime and violence in our society - that does the gentleman rise? when we talk about tlying to prevent crime and violence, that Mr. COY. Point of order, Mr. Speaker. we get on the front side of life and that we give people real The SPEAKER The gentleman will state his point. education, that every school is a good school, that we give Mr. COY. The question before the House? people jobs and job training and break down the discriminatory The SPEAKER. The question before the IIouse is the aspects that exist in the work force. When are we going to get matter of reconsideration of the constitutionality vote on the * to those issues? That is the real challenge. Michlovic amendment. Now, I submit, as I have submitted to those individuals Mr. COY. Thank you. from the National Rifle Association, who are sitting up in our 1993 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE 2331

The SPEAKER. The motion is to reconsider the ~rebs Reber wamiak constitutionality. LaCrdta Reid Wright, M. N. La& Rishprdson Y.ndriswits On the question recurring, Oxuse Lawless Roebuck Yewcis Durham Lehr Rohrer zu8 Will the IIouse agree to the motion? Egolf Lep Rubley Fairchild Leh Rudy Dew- (Members proceeded to vote.) Fajt h07ik R~ s*= Fargo VOTE STRICKEN Mr. RYAN. Mr. Speaker? 'The SPEAKER. The clerk will strike the vote. Blaum lams bdaoslry hncy Buxton Jamlin Rim Stella The gentleman, Mr. Ryan, is recognized. Cohen, M Kirkland R&&s SMs Mr. RYAN. This is our usual, everyday courtesy-call curry Kukwich Robinson Vmn reconsideration vote, and then the vote on the merits will be Evans Laugblio the second vote. Is that not so? NOT VOTING-9 Ihe SPEAKER. 'The Speaker had already voted in the affirmative, and the gentleman is correct. This is a Phillips Taylor. J. Washiogtao Taylor, E. Z. Tigue Wright D. R reconsideration vote. Mr. RYAN. 'Ihank you. Then I would ask for a "yes" vote. The SPEAKER. This is a reconsideration motion. Acoraa Olw Petmma hega All those who would vote to reconsider the vote on Bush constitutionality will vote "aye"; those opposed, "no." On the question recurring, The question was determined in the affirmative, and the Will the Ilouse agree to the motion? motion was agreed to. 'The following roll call was recorded: On the question recurring, Will the House sustain the constitutionality of the YEAS-171 amendments? Adolph Fsmr Lloyd Sanloni Allen Fee Lynch Sather The SPEAKER. The question before the House at this time Argall Ftchler Maitland Saum is the constitutionality of the Michlovic amendment. Armstrong Fleagle Mandenno Saylor Mr. RYAN. Mr. Speaker? Baker Fl~k Markosek Ssheetz The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Delaware is Barley Freeman Marsiso Schuler Banisto Gamble Maslaod Scnmenti recognized. Bebko-Jones Cannon Mayemik Semmel Mr. RYAN. Mr. Speaker, again I would remind the House Belardi Gas1 McCall Semfioi of the problems we are having with the voting machines. I Belfaoti George McGeehan Smith, B. noticed, for instance, the gentleman, Mr. Phillips, is in his seat Birmelin Gerlach McNally Smith, S. H. Blshup G,gl,"lll Melio Snyder, D. W. and was not voted on that last vote, which really was not a Boyes Oladak Merry Staback necessay vote, but-and he pushed the button-but these Brown Gudshall Mishlovlc Slairs machines are acting peculiar. I would ask the Speaker to be Bud Gordner Micome Steelman Calladrone Gm,tla Mihalish Sleighner aware of that problem, and of course, only those in their seats Cappahanca G~PP~ Miller Sleil should and will vote on this. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Cam Haluska Mundy Slem The SPEAKER The gentleman is correct. Tk members Carone Hanna Murphy Stish are advised that a quick push on the button will activate, and Cawley Hadey Nailor sirinmatter Cessar Hasay Nickol Sums - that is all that is necessary. To hold it will cause a problem. Chadwick Hennasey Nyce Tangetti On constitutionality, all those who vote "aye" will vote that Civers Herman O'Bnen Thomas the Michlovic language is constitutional; those who vote "no" Clark Hershey O'Donnell Tomliosoo will indicate by their vote that they believe the Michlovic Clymr Hess Oliver Trello Cohen. L. I. Hughes Perzel Tnsh amendment is not constitutional. Colafella Hutchinson PeSn True Colaim lllun Petrone Tulli On the question recurring, Conti Jadlowlec Petlit Ulians Will the House sustain the constitutionality of the Comell Josephs Piccola Vaoce amendments? Cowell Kaisr Pistella Van llome Coy Kasunic Pitts V~tali Ilaley Keller Plans Waugh DeLuca Kenney Preston Williams D~~PXY Kin% Raymond Wogan 2332 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE DECEMBER 15

The following mll call was recorded: PARLIAMENTARY INQUIRY YEAS-92 Mr. BELFANTI. Mr. Speaker? Mr. Speaker? Adolph kt hvitz Rmoey The SPEAKER For what purpose does the gentleman rise? ,, Banilpo Donableci LNdansky Rudy Mr. BELFANII. Mr. Speaker, a point of parliamentary ~e~ro-lone~ DNW hcylr saomni inquiry. &lard, Evans Manderino Sam Belfd Pajt McGeehan Stabssk The SPEAKER. The gentleman will state his point. Bisbap F- M~Nally Steel- Mr. BELFANTI. Mr. Speaker, I believe there was some ~lsum ~me"~a~ Mdio Stdl confusion when that vote was taken as to what a "yes" and ButLwitz Gamble Michlovic Stdler "no" vote meant given the discussion immediately prior by the Buxton Hal& Mimaie SMa W%me Harley Mihalisb suns minority leader on, you know, the everyday occurrence. Cappabiancs Hush- Mundy Tan@ I would like to ask that that vote be taken again. cam Itkin Murphy Taylor, J. The SPEAKER The gentleman is in order only if he b Cawley Jams O'Brien TIo- submits another reconsideration motion to the dais. CeMsr I+ O'Donnell Tipe COWL. I. Kaiser Oliver Trello Cohq M. Kdla Petmne Trish FILMING PERMISSION Cdafdla Kenne~ Pidells Van Hme Cddno KirLlaod Rest00 Vcw The SPEAKER. The gentleman, Representative King. For Comcll Kulraich Reinad Vitali what pulpose does the gentleman rise? Lrub Coniw Richhn Washington Mr. KING. Mr. Speaker, I am here to reconfirm whose ONvdl Laughlio Rittcr Willi- Cuw Ledaa Robinson Wow presence of the cameras that are on the House floor are ~eLu LEe Roebuck ysn;Lisevita permitled at this time. The SPEAKER The gentleman is in order. The Chair had indicated to a variety of news entities, and Allon G-011 Markosek Scrimenti the gentleman makes a very valid point. Robelt Lang, WCMB, OeiJ Marsico Snnmel Anwrong 0-e Masland Sersfini and Robert Macldntosh, KYW-TV, had not been announced Baker Galsch Mayemit Smith, B. but had been granted permission along with several other Barley Gladefk McCdl Smith, S. H. entities. Bidin 0odSh.u Merry Snyder, D. W. The Chair thanks the gentleman for bringing that to our Bayg Gds Millet Stairs Bm GNim Nailor Steighuer attention, but no one is on the floor without permission. B"nl Nidrd Stem Mr. KING. How long will that be, Mr. Speaker? C- H- Nyce Wsh The SPEAKER Both news entities that I just announced Chdwick H-Y penel Stnumatter had asked to be here for the filming of HB 185. If my Civm Hmncgy Pcsi Tayior, E. Z Cluf Hemuo Pdt Tomlinaon recollection selves me, the House Republican video team had Clynua HPnbey Phillip TN~ asked to film proceedings throughout the day. Gdi Heu Piccols Tulli Mr. KING. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Cay HIdshinao F'itts Utim The SPEAKER The gentleman is welcome. Ddcv Jadowia: Plstts Vmce Dcmpsey I& Raymond wa4 Dennody Kaauds Reba WolniaL CONSIDERATION OF HB 185 CONTINUED Dulbnl Kiog Robats Wright, D. R Egdf Knbs Rohrer Wright, M N. On the question retuning, Firchild LaGm Wley Ynvcic Will the House agree to the amendments? F.rg0 Lawless Rysa Zug Fee Leh Sathe, Fichler Lloyd Sayln Dew-, CONSTITUTIONALITY OF Lynch Sche nick MiUd Schuler AMENDMENT A4958 RECONSIDERED *r NOT VOTING-I The SPEAKER The Chair is in receipt of yet one more motion to reconsider the constitutionality vote of HB 185's Michlovic amendment, amendment A4958. On the question, Amd. Olm Petrarca Rieger Will the House agree to the motion? Bush The following roll call was recorded: Less than the majority having voted in the affirmative, the question was determined in the negative and the Adolph Fargo hc~k Saum constitutionality of the amendments was not sustained. Allen Farmer Lyoch Saylor Ardl Fee Maitlaod Sch& LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE 2333

Armstrong Fichter Manderino Schuler Mr. Speaker, as I said, there was a bit of confusion on the Baker Fleagle Markosek Scrimenti vote. In fact, earlier today I voted "no" on constitutionality. Barley Flick Marsico Semmel Battisto Freanao Masland Serafini This last time I voted "yes" on constitutionality. Earlier today Bebko-Jones Gamble Mayemik Smith. B. we also voted on a pmedd move to recommit the bill. Belardi Gannon McCall Smith. S. H. I believe that the majority of the members on the floor Belfanti Geist Mffieehao Snyder, D. W. today want to vote this issue, and if voting this issue requires Bimelin George McNally Staback Bishop Gerlach Melio Stairs a "yes" on constitutionality, then I would urge people thal have Blaum Gladeck Memi Steelman serious concerns about both sides of this issue to vote "yes" on BOP Godshall Michlovic Steighoer constitutionality and let us get on with voting the issue. Thank Bmwn Gordoer Micorie Stbl you very much. Bunt Gmitza Mihalich Stem Butkovltz G~PP~ Miller SteUer The SPEAKER Mr. Ryan is recognized. Buxton Halusb Mundy Stish Mr. RYAN. Mr. Speaker, just briefly, and really in reply to Caltaimne Hanna Murphy Stritlmtter the remarks of the gentleman, the Senate has gone home. The Cappabianca Harley Nailor SMa idea that our rushing through something is going to mean Cam Hasay Nickol Slurs Camne Heon- N~ce Tan@i anything is foolish, because that chamber is necessaty for Cawley Hemn O'Brien Taylor, E. Z. anything to become law. Cessar Hershey O'Doooell Taylor, 1. The question of constitutionality is a legitimate question for Chadwick Hess Oliver Thomas Civera Hughes Peml Tigue us to touch on. I frankly think we need breathing time to put Clark Hutchinson Pesci Tomlinsoo all of these things together. Clymer Itkin Pdmne Trella I myself have two amendments that have come down from Coheo. L. I. ladlowiec Pettit Trich Reference Bureau. They were incorrectly prepared, because I Coheo, M. lames Phillips True Colafella Jarolio Picsola Tulli incorrectly ordered them, and they are being changed right Colaim Josephs Pistella Uliana now. I would appreciate more time on them, although I think Conti Kaiwr Pim Vance they are going to be here any minute. Comell Kasunis Platts Van Home So let us get on with this vote, I am urging everyone Corrigan Keller Preston Veon and Cawell Kenney Raymond Vitali to vote "no." Thank you. COY King Reber Washington The SPEAKER. Mr. Preston is recognized on curry Kirkland Reioard waugh constitutionality. Daley Krebs Richardson Williams you, DeLuca Kukovich Riner Wogan Mr. PRESTON. Thank Mr. Speaker. D-SY LaCratta Robens Womiak Will the maker of the motion stand for interrogation? Dent Laub Robrnsoo Wright. D. R (Additional remarks expunged) Demwdy Laughlin Roebuck Wright. M. N The SPEAKER The gentleman, Mr. Cannon, indicates he Dooatucn Lawless Rohrer Yandrire\rits Dm Lederer Rmney Y~vcic will stand for interrogation on the question of constitutionality. Durham Lee Rubley zug The gentleman fmm Pittsburgh may pnreed. Egolf Leh Rudy Mr. PRESTON. Thank .vou . Mr. Sveaker. Evans Lescavilz Ryan Dew-, I sincerely take, on making a decision- Fairchild Levdanslry Saoloni Speaker Fajt Lloyd Sather Mr. RYAN. Mr. Speaker? The SPEAKER Mr. Ryan is recognized. For what purpose NAYS-0 does the gentleman rise? NOT VOTING-I Mr. RYAN. Mr. Speaker, I resent the comment of the gentleman, Mr. Preston, that was just made, and I think it should be expunged from the record. Mr. GANNON. I did not hear it. What did he say? MI. RYAN. I do not how; if you did, you would across AGO* Olasz Pdrarca Rieger be Bush the aisle. Mr. CANNON. What did he sav? I want to how what he said. I did not hear it. The question was determined in the affirmative, and the The SPEAKER The gentleman, Mr. Gannon, is not motion was agreed to. recognized. The gentleman, Mr. Cannon, is not recognized On the question retuning, The gentleman, Mr. Ryan's remark is in order, and the Chair- Will the House sustain the constitutionality of the Mr. GANNON. I want him to repeat it so I can hear it. amendments? The SPEAKER Mr. Gannon, you are not recognized. The gentleman, Mr. Ryan, is in order, and his remarks are The SPEAKER On constitutionality, the gentleman, Mr. appropriate. The clerk will expunge the phrase that was uttered Belfanti, is recognized; on constitutionality. from the record. Mr. BELFAm. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. 2334 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE DECEMBER 15

Mr. PRESTON. Which phrase, Mr. Speaker? 'kt I was Mr. PRESTON. Could I ask my question again, because I serious about the Constitution? did not get an answer yet. The SPEAKER The gentleman, Mr. Presto% indicated to The SPEAKER. The Chair would politely advise both the Assembly-and by making me do this, Mr. Preston, you are distinguished members to please, please, please, focus on further exacerbating the mild unpleasantness of the moment. constitutionality. The gentleman, Mr. Preston, may proceed. Mr. PRESTON. I will- Mr. PRESTON. In relationship to the constitutionality, I The SPEAKER Mr. Preston, please desist. will repeat my question again, maybe a little bit more slowly Mr. PRESTON. I will agree, sir. so that you can clearly hear what I am trying to ask. The SPEAKER Please desist momentarily. The gentleman, If I own a 9-millimeter weapon, which 1 do and I have a Mr. Ryan, objected, and I am confirming my agreement with license to cany, will this under the Michlovic amendment Mr. Ryan and his objection. prohibit me from being able to carry this weapon? Mr. PRESTON. Thank you very much. I agree. Mr. GANNON. Mr. Speaker, could he repeat the question? t The SPEAKER The gentleman is recogpized and may I did not hear it. P&. Mr. PRESTON. I will go a little bit slower this time, sir. Mr. PRESTON. Thank you. I own a 9-millimeter Smith & Wesson that I also As I was saying, I take the Constitutions of the United constitutionally have a license to carry in the State of States and Penmylvania very serious, and you have raised the Pennsylvania. Under the Michlovic amendment, in relationship question about constitutionality conceming the right to bear to your question conceming constitutionality, if this arms in the Michlovic amendment. amendment passes, will it prohibit me from being able to own In relationship to the Michlovic amendment on how it that particular weapon? prevents you from the right to bear arms, could you in a Mr. GANNON. I do not know. You are ahead of me. I do mm&tive way explain this in relationship to the not own a gun. So what kind of weapon is that? constih~tionality question? Mr. PRESTON. It is a Pmillimeter Smith & Wesson, sir. Mr. GANNON. Mr. Speaker, the Pennsylvania Constitution It is a semiautomatic hand weapon. says the right to bear arms shall not be questioned. The United Mr. GANNON. Is that a handgun? States Constitution says the right to keep and bear arms shall Mr. PRESTON. Yes, it is. not be infringed They are very, very strong terms. And I stood Mr. GANNON. This amendment has nothing to do with on this floor a few minutes ago and I said, yes, I believe-and handguns. the coun~have already stated; I agree with the courts-I Mr. PRESTON. Is that a weapon or a right to bear an arm? believe that we can have reasonable regulation of a Mr. GANNON. This has nothing to do with handguns, and, constitutional right to keep order, as part of the powers as a you know, if you want to talk about handguns, we can do that police state. However, I said this amendment goes too far. It later. We are talking about the weapons on this list. turns law-abiding citizens into criminals. We have got enough Mr. PRESTON. Constitutionality - do I have a right to criminals out there already that should be in jail. We do not bear that am? need any more. Mr. GANNON. Mr. Speaker, I am not going to answer that Mr. PRESTON. Constitutionality, sir. question. If he wants to ask an intelligent question that deals Now, I have another question then further along on my with the amendment, I will be glad to answer it. intermgation. Mr. PRESTON. Mr. Speaker, may I speak on the Personally. I have several guns of my own. I also was a amendment? former member of the NRA. Will this amendment, if it would The SPEAKER The gentleman is recognized only on pass, will it prevent me from owning or carrying my 9- constitutionality, not the amendment; not the amendment, only millimeter Smith & Wesson? Would it prevent me from doing on constitutionality. that, sir? Mr. PRESTON. Thanks. Mr. GANNON. Mr. Speaker, the way the amendment is Concerning constitutionality, being that I have already said d&ed, it is an unreasonable infringement on the right to keep that I do not have the cognitive ability to be able to relate to and bear arms. That is the position that I stated. It is an the gentleman, the U.S. Constitution in the Second Amendment unreasonable infringement on weapons that are used by is "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of sportsmen throughout this Commonwealth. And I said not a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, every weapon. I agree, some of the weapons on this list belong sM1 not be infringed." 'I'he Federal courts have uniformly on this list, some of these weapons do not, and most of these rejected the interpretation that the Federal Second Amendment weapons that do not belong on the list are owned by a great bestows an unlimited right to bear all arms. Unlike other number of law-abiding citizens, and I think they would be rights, like freedom of speech and of religion, Federal courts upset if they knew that we were here today turning them into have interpreted the Second Amendment as a protection for t common criminals for something that they are doing lawfully. State militia against possible Federal encroachment. The courts The SPEAKER The Chair would politely- have never treated weapon bearing as an absolute individual right. 1993 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE 2335

And I say this very sincerely, as I stated before, I take the maybe in a moment's notice can make that determination. Yet, constitutionality to be very serious, and I do not want the body from time to time we are asked to make that judgment. that we all belong to to be embarrassed on a national basis Let me simply say that nothing has gone in this bill thus from trying to play what I feel are frivolous little forms of far other than the Brady bill that was put in in Rules, which I personal politics. We are going to make a decision for the am a member of, and it was voted out 13 to 3, and now it is House of Representatives and tlus legislative body on whether before us, and I do not know what has changed to make it now or not the Federal court's decision has been wrong, and that unconstitutional, unless the Senate continues to send us bills reflects back on us individually and the constituents that we over here that are unconstitutional. represent. So I would suggest that we say that this bill is So therefore, 1 raise that this is constitutional. The constitutional. gentleman never answered my question. I think I could not The SPEAKER The Chair thanks the gentleman. have made it even more clearer, and I plan on placing a copy On constitutionality, all those who vote "aye" will vote that of this on every editorial page across the country. it is constitutional; those who vote "no" will say that it is not. I am really shockcd that we would do this, but 1 do think that it is constitutional, and I ask for a "yes" vote on the On the question recurring, Will the House sustain the constitutionality of the motion. amendments? The SPEAKER. The Chair thanks the gentleman. On constitutionality, constitutionality, the gentleman, Mr. The following roll call was recorded: Snyder, is recognirzd. Mr. SNYDER. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, earlier today I had voted "yes" for the Banisto Fee Lucyk Staback constitutionality, and then on the second vote I voted that it is Bebko-Jones Freeman Manderino Steel- Belardi Gamble Ma~~kSterghom unconstitutional after it was brought to my attention the Bishop George McCall Steil provisions of section 6182 of Representative Michlovic's Blaum Giglidti McGeehan Stetler amendmcnt, which I believe unconstitutionally delegates to the Butkovitz Halvsb McNally Stiah court legislative authority to add to this list. Buxton Hanna Melio Sbula Calta@rone Harley Michlais s"m 1 recognize that the amendment was attempted to be Ca@aoca Hughes MiMich Tan@ carefully drafted to be a petition for the process of adding to Cam Ilkin Mu& Taylor, 1. this list with guidelines to the court, but essentially, Mr. Cawley James MW~Y nomas Speaker, the amendment as we have it before us today is not Cohen. L. I. larolin O'Brien Time Cohen, M. Joseph3 Oliver Tdlo a ban on a general definition of what an assault weapon is; it Colafella Kaiser PeJEi Trish is a ban on specific weapons. Therefore, the legislative intent Colako Kilsunis Petrone Van Home today is to provide that list. If it is the legislative intent to Comell Keller Pistella Veon provide a list of specific weapons, we cannot then provide to Conigan Kenney Preston Vitali Cowell Kirkland Reinard Washingion the courts the ability to add to legislation which is enacted only COY Kukovich Richardson Williams by this body. Curry LaGmtta Ritw Wogan Mr. Speaker, I just feel that we are unconstitutionally Ddey hub Robinsoo Wormak DeLusa Laughlin Raebuck Wright. D. R delegating to the coults and to the executive branch legislative Dent Lederer Rooney YandnsRllts authority, and for that reason I am voting that it is Daoahlcci Lee Rudy unconstitutional. Druse Lescovitz Sanbni DeWeese, The SPEAKER The gentleman, Mr. McCall, on Evans Lwdaosk, Samn Speaker Fajt constitutionality. Mr. McCALL. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. NAYS-90 Mr. Speaker, I ask for a "yes" vote on constitutionality. I Adolph Fichter Lpch Ry.. think this is an issue that is not going to go away. I think it is Allen Fleagle Maitland Sather time that this Ilouse take a stand one way or the other. Every Argall Flick Marrico Saylor amendment that is involved with HB 185 we can hide behind Armstrong Cannon Masland Scheetz Baker Geist Mayemik Schulm the vote of constitutional or not constitutional. I think it is high Barley Gdach Merry Scrimenti time that this chamber take a stand on the issue and vote that Bimlin Gladeck Micomie Semmel this amcndmcnt be constitutional and have the Michlovic Boyos Godshall Miller Serafiol amendment come before this Rouse for a vote. Bmwn Gordner Nailor Snith. B. Bunt GNjtza Nickol Smith, S. H. The SPEAKER. Chairman George is recognized on Camne Gruppo Nyce Snyder, D. W. constitutionality. Cessar Hasay Penel Stairs Mr. GEORGE. Mr. Speaker, I will speak on the Chadulck Hennessey Pettit Stem constitutionality, if I may, by simply stating that I am not a Civera Herman Phillips stritt"mner Clark Henhey Piccols Todinson legal scholar like some of those that are our colleagues and Clymer Hess Pins True 2336 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE DECEMBER 15

Conti Hutchinson PlaIts Uliana Baker Gerlach Msyemik Stairs ~PYJadlowia: Raymond Vance Barley Gigliotti McCall Steelmao Durham King Reber Waugh Belardi Gladsk Mew Steiphner Egolf Krebs Robe& Wright. M. N. Belfaoti Godshall ~illir ski 'C Fainchild Lawless Rohrer Yewcic Bimlio Gordner Nailor Stem Fargo Leh Rubley zu~ Boyes Gmim Nick01 Stish F.nner Lloyd Browo GNFP N~ce Strittmatter Bunt Hanna Pessi Sum NOT VOTING-5 Carone Hasay Pemne Tangretti Chadwick Hemo Phillips Taylor, E. Z. Belfanti O'Donnell Taylor, E. Z. Tulli Clark Hershey Piccola Tomlinsoo hd Clymer Hess Pitts Trella EXCUSED-5 Colafella Hutchinson Reber True Colain0 Jadlaulg Reinard Tulli Am& Olasz Pararca Rieger Conti Jamlin Roberts Uliana t Bush COY Kasunic Rohm Vance Daley King R~an waugh DeLuca Krebs Sather Wovliak The mmajority having voted in the affirmative, the question Dempsey LaGmtta Saumn Wright. D. R Dedy Lawless Saylor Wright, M. N was determined in the affirmative and the constitutionality of Dmce Leh Scheetz Yaodnsevits the amendments was sustained. Ecolf Lesovitz Schuler Yewcic ~&hi~d Lloyd S~rhe~ti z"g On the question recurring, Fargo Lucyk Semmel Will the House agree to the amendments? Fee Lpch Serafini Dewease, Fichter Maitland Smith, B. Speaker (Members proceeded to vote.) Fleagle The SPEAKER. The Chair will leave time so that people NOT VOTING-0 may cast their votes. This is a very impoRant vote statewide. Since our maclunery is not working all that well today, the Chair will leave time, or allow time, I should say, for members AcoSIa OIaw. Parsrca Rieger Bush to record their votes. Again, a slight depression on the button should activate the switch. The question was determined in the negative, and the amendments were not agreed to. On the question recurring, Will the House agree to the amendments? On the question retuning, Will the House concur in Senate amendments as amended? The following roll call was recorded: Mr. PRESTON offered the following amendments No.

Adolph Durham Richardsoo I Amend Sec. 1 (Sec. 908).,..- oaue 14.., bv insertinn - between Banislo Evans Riner lines 20 and 21 Bebka-Jones Fajt Robiosoo [el Exempt cities.-Cities of the first and second class are Bishop Farmer Roebuck exemDt from the provisions of this section. Bla"," Flick Rooney Amend Sec. 1 (Sec. 6120). page 15, by inserting between Butkovitz Frermsn Rubley lines 3 and 4 Buxtoa Gannoa Rudy [c) Exempt cities.-Cities of the first and second class are Caltagirone Haluska Sanbni exempt from the provisions of this section. Capbisnca Harley Stela Cam Hennessey Mihslich Sturla On the question, Cawley Hughes Mmdy Taylor, I. Cessar ltkin Murphy nomas Will the House agree to the amendments? Civers James O'Brim Tigue Cohen, L. I. Josephs O'Domell Trich THE SPEAKER PRO TEMPORE Cohm, M. Kaiser Oliver Van Home Comell Keller Penel Veoa (FRED A. TRELLO) PRESIDING Conigan Kenney Pettil Vitali Cowell Kirkland Pistella Washington PARLIAMENTARY INQUIRY cw Kukovich Platts William Dmt Laub P~eston Wogan AMENDMENTS DIVIDED Donatucci Laughlin Raymond The SPEAKER pro tempore. On the amendment, the NAYS-1 15 gentleman, Mr. Preston, is recognized. b Allm Gamble Markosek Smith, S. H. Mr. PRESTON. Thank you. Argsll Geist Mardco Snyder, D. W. Mr. Speaker, I would like to be able to subdivide the -ng George Masland Stabsck amendment. 1993 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE 2337

The SPEAKER pro tempore. Where does the gentleman Philadelphia or Allegheny County, and transport that weapon wish to divide the amendment? through those two municipalities, or to the airport, for instance, Mr. PRESTON. I would like to be able to subdivide the for transport out of the State in those two municipalities? What amendment and take the second part. I would like to be able provisions are there in your amendment that would pmvide for to subdivide it aAcr the word "section" and starting with the that legal movement of that weapon? words "Amend Sec. 1 (Sec. 6120)," and I would like to be Mr. PRESTON. Okay. It is my understanding as far as able to take the second section. transport is concerned and especially on the Federal interstate The SPEAKER pro tempore. The amendment is so highways, that there is not any effect. And also, unless you are divisible. transporting it appropriately within an airport, that will also fall under a different law, depending on how you are transpoxting On the question, it. Will the House agree to part 2 of the amendments? Mr. GLADECK. Mr. Speaker, I am sony. I really could Mr. PRESTON. Mr. Speaker, that section of this not hear you either, so would you say that again? amendment will exempt the city of Pittsburgh and the city of Mr. PRESTON. Okay. And please understand, I am only Philadelphia from what we have reaffirmed as far as the going with limited knowledge. I have not really seen the current law is concerned. What we are asking you is the same Philadelphia language. thing that we have been asking for in the past, and as we have Under the language that we have in the city of Pinsburgh, heard many statements before, why do not Pittsburgh and most people. in all honesty, do not Pass through the city of Philadelplua try to take care of their own business? Pittsburgh going to the airport anyway, because the airport is What we are trying to do is ask our respective legislative not in the city of Pittsburgh. So that is a different issue. But as bodies, i.e., the city council and the mayor, to be able to have far as the interstate, that falls under a slighdy different their own jurisdiction to be able to legislate within their own situation. legislative bodies on the municipal level, and I would ask for But within the current understanding of the rule that we an affirmative vote on this amendment. have in the city of Pittsburgh, that point is not addressed and The SPEAKER pm tempore. The Chair would like to is not particularly covered. It deals with possessing and clarify what the gentleman is doing. We are not voting on the purchasing Pdculu types of weapons within the city of first part of the amendment, section 908, page 14; we are Pittsburgh and to be able to own them within the city of voting on the second part of the amendment, section 6120, Pittsburgh. page 15. Mr. GLADECK. I understand that. So essentially what you Mr. PRESTON. Yes, sir. are saying to me is you have made no pmvisions for the legal The SPEAKER pro tempore. Okay. transport of these weapons that are legally obtained elsewhere The Chair recognixs the gentleman, Mr. Godshall. in the State of Pennsylvania, to transport these weapons in a Mr. GODSHALL. The important point that we are legal fashion thmugh the borders of the city of Pittsburgh or addressing here at this point is preemption. Preemption belongs Philadelphia. IS that not a correct statement? with the State of Pennsylvania, or does it belong with the State Mr. PRESTON. That is directly the case, because it cannot of Pennsylvania? l'his and other amendments that are coming be addressed. If that were the case, then we would be able to fonvard are going to deal with that problem. say that satellites or airplanes also possibly would be illegal as Now, Pennsylvania has had preemption rights for 21 years. far as airspace is concerned. You cannot really address that These preemption rights must remain with the State of issue. It is only dealing with ownership within the city of Pennsylvania. I would ask for a negative vote on this and Pittsburgh, not dealing about transporting weapons. successive motions. Thank you. Mr. GLADECK. Well, I do not know about the satellites The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair thanks the and airplanes, but it just seems to me that it is my hope that gentleman. there are other amendments that will be offered today that The Chair recognires the gentleman, Mr. Gladeck. would cover the problem, because I think that if this body is Mr. GLADECK. Mr. Speaker, I would like to interrogate going to allow individual citizens in Pennsylvania to purchase the maker of the amcndment for a split second, if I may. these weapons in question that are banned by the ordinances of The SPEAKER pm tempore. The gentleman indicates that Philadelphia and Pittsburgh, I can understand possibly allowing he will agree. the two cities of the first and second class in this State to have Mr. GLADECK. Mr. Speaker, I want to be clear about their own ordinances, but I think that to be fair to the person your amendment. Are there any provisions included in your that purchases these weapons legally, they should be permitted amendment that would provide for individuals that could to transport them through those municipalities. Thank you for legally purchase these weapons, transporting them legally your comments, Mr. Speaker. through the municipalities in question? Or what would happen The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair thanks the if in fact you buy a weapon that is on the- gentleman. Mr. Speaker, could you tell me, what would happen if I The Chair recognizes the gentleman, Mr. Phillips. purchase a weapon elsewhere in Pennsylvania, outside either Mr. PlIILLIPS. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. 2338 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE DECEMBER 15

I rise to ovuose the amendment. The ~umseof HB 185 is I REMARKS SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD to have statewide preemption, and l fee; that it is very The SPEAKER pm tempore. The Chair recognizes the important that we have that in our State. I do not believe that we should exclude any municipality, whatever that gentleman, Mr. Melio. t municipality may be. I therefore ask for a "no" vote. Mr. MELIO. Mr. Speaker, I just wmld like to put some The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair thanks the remarks on the record for the Michlovic amendment. The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman's remarks will gentleman. be spread upon the record. On the question, the Chair recognizes the gentleman, Mr. McCall. Mr. MELlO submitted the following remarks for the Mr. McCALL. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Legislative Jownal: Mr. Speaker, I, too, rise in opposition to the Preston amendment. That is celtainly the reason why we here Mr. Speaker, while it is my belief that all Americans have the are right to bear arms as provided for in the U.S. Constitution, the today, because of the ordinances passed in Philadelphia and Michlovic amendment asks for a State ban on assault weapons. . Pittsburgh. It is the reason why we passed the Godshall I repeat, assault weapons -not all guns, but assault weapons. amendment last week. That is what the crux of the issue is. The word "assault," as provided for by the American Heritage Dictionary, is a violent physical attack and an unlawful attempt or The crux of the issue before us is preemption. Ow concem threat to injure another physically. is that we do not want lawful gun owners wonied about a Unlawful and injure. myriad of local ordinances governing the ownership of a rifle These weapons are not meant for game. They are meant to or a gun. I would ask for a "no" vote on the Preston hurt others, and I believe that during our current hunting season, any member on either side of the aisle would be hard pressed to amendment. find a hunter using these assault weapons to hunt animals. The SPEAKER pm tempore. The Chr thanks the The only animals these are used against are humans, and we gentleman. must act today to stop the carnage that is going on in our streets. I encourage all members an both sides of the aisle to vote in AMENDMENTS WlTHDRAWN favor of the Michlovic amendment. Thank you. Mr. PRESTON. Mr. Speaker? REPUBLICAN CAUCUS The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair recognizes the gentlemm, Mr. Preston. The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair recognizes the Mr. PRESTON. Mr. Speaker, because of certain forms of gentleman, Mr. Geist. questions as far as clarity is concerned, I would like to Mr. GEIST. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. withdraw my three amendments. Afler discussing with Woody the necessity of moving the The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair thanks the floor debate ahead, it will be necessq for the Republicans to gentleman. caucus briefly on bills that have come over from the Senate for The amendment is withdrawn. concurrence. We have not caucused on those bills. We will do so at 1:15. BILL PASSED OVER TEMPORARILY The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair thanks the The SPEAKER pro tempore. The bill will be passed over gentleman. temporarily. The Republicans will meet to caucus at 1:15. The Chair recognizes the gentleman, Mr. Coy. RECESS Mr. COY. Mr. Speaker, the majority leader has asked me to announce his intention to recess the IIouse now, to break The SPEAKER pm tempore. This House stands in recess until 1:30. There is no need for a caucus on our side, I am not until 1:30. sure about the Republicans, but if we could recess the House now for lunch until 1:30 p.m. AFTER RECESS The SPEAKER pm tempore. The Chair recognizes the The time of recess having expired, the House was called to t gentleman, Mr. Geist. order. Mr. GEIST. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There will be no need for the Republicans to caucus. Our THE SPEAKER PRO TEMPORE only concem is the snowstorm which is now pelting McKees Rocks. So we are a little bit concemed about those who have (PHYLLIS MUNDY) PRESIDING to travel west. ANNOUNCEMENT BY MR. FREEMAN The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair thanks the gentleman for that weather report. The SPEAKER pro tempore. For what purpose does the gentleman, Mr. Freeman, rise? W Mr. FREEMAN. Regarding the announcement of a meeting, Madam Speaker. The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman may proceed. 1993 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE 2339

Mr. FREEMAN. Thank you. COY King Reinard Washington Madam Speaker, the ad hoc group on land use planning Cum Kirkland Richardson Waueh D& Krrbs Riner had scheduled a meeting for 1 o'clock today in the South DeLuea Ku!wvich Raberta Office Building. That meeting has been canceled. We are, Dem~sey LaGmtta Robinson however, meeting tomolTow at 10 a.m. in room 421, South Dent Laub Roebuck Office Building. Dedy Laughlio Rohr Donahlcn Lawless Rooney So for all those legislators who belong to the ad hoc group Druce Lederer Rubley on land use, which is dealing with the drafling of legislation Durham Lee Rudy regarding land use planning, I want to remind them that we Egolf Leh R~an Evans LacoviLz Santoni will be meeting tomorrow, Thursday, December 16, at 10 a.m. Fairchild Levdansky Sather in room 421, South Office Building. Fajt The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair thanks the gentleman. Mr. FREEMAN. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Hanna Madand Plans NOT VOTING-0 RULES SUSPENDED The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair recognizes the majority leader. Acasta Bush Mr. ITKIN. Madam Speaker, I move that we suspend the rules to allow a vote on an amendment which Mr. Curry will offer to HB 1836. A majority of the members elected to the House having voted in the affirmative, the question was determined in the On the question, affirmative and the motion was agreed to. Will the IIouse agree to the motion? 'lhe following roll call was recorded: CALENDAR CONTINUED YEAS-195 BILLS ON THIRD CONSIDERATION Adolph Fargo Lloyd Saurman The House proceeded to third consideration of EB 1836, Allen Farmer Lucyk Saylor Argall Fee Lynch Sche PN 2197, entitled: Armstrong Fichler Maitland Schuler Baker Fleagle Mandenno Scrimenti An Act providing for the creation, conveyance, acceptance, Barley Flick Markosek Semmel duration and validity of conservation and preservation easements; Battisto Freeman Marrico Serafii and providing for judicial actions. Behko-Jones Gamble Mayemik Smith, B. Bolardi Gannun McCall Smith, S. H. On the question, Belfadi ~nst McGeehan Snyder, D. W. Will the House agree to the bill on third consideration? Bimelin George McNally Staback Bishop Gerlach Melio Stain The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman, Mr. Cuny, Blaum Gigliotti Mev Steelmao offers the following amendment, which the clerk will read. Boyes Gladak Michlovic Steianer Will Mr. Cuny come to the @urn, please. Brown Godshall Micozie stal Bunt Gordner Mihalich Stem (Conference held at Speaker's podium.) Bulkovitz Gmim Miller Letler Buxton G~PPO Mundy Stish Caltagirme flaluska MU.P~Y Stnttmatter FILMING PERMISSION Cappakanca Harley Nailor Sturla Cam Hasay Nickol Surra The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair wishes to advise Camne Hennessey N~ce Tanptti members that she has given permission to Victor Livingston Cawley Herman O'Brien Taylor, E. Z. Cessar Hershey O'DonoeII Taylor, J. and Caprice Luckas, photographers for WTXF, channel 29, to Chadwick Hess Oliver Tlomas film with audio on the floor of the House during the Civera Hughes Perzel Tigue proceedings on HB 185. Clark Hutchinson ~esn Tomlinsoo Clymer ltkin Petrane Trello Cohen, L. 1. Jadlowies Pdtil Trich CONSIDERATION OF HB 1836 CONTINUED Cohen, M. James Phillips True Colafella Jamlin Piccda Tulli On the question recurring, Colaim Jonephs Pistella Uliaoa Will the IIouse agree to the bill on third consideration? Conti Kaiser Pitts Vaoce Mr. CURRY offered the following amendments No. Cornell Kasunic Preston Van Home Corrigan Keller Raymond Veon A5067: Cowell Kenney Reber Vitali 2340 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE DECEMBER I5

Amend Sec. 3, page 2, line 5, by inserting after "protecting" Mr. CURRY. This amendment to HB I836 is an agreed-to for the public benefit the Amend Sec. 4, page 3, line 12, by inserting a period after amendment, and I ask the House to support it. "easements" The SPEAKER pm tempore. For what purpose does the Amend Sec. 4, page 3, lines 12 through 14, by sirking out 1 gentleman, Mr. Armstrong, rise? t ", as long as the conservation and" in line 12 and all of lines 13 Mr. ARMSTRONG. To interrogate the maker of the and 14 Amend Sec. 4, page 3, line 19, by removing the period after amendment, please. "enforcement" and insertina The SPEAKER pro tempore. The -~entleman indicates he and a &ordation of the acceptance. will stand for interrogation. The gentleman may proceed. Amend Sec. 4, page 3, lines 21 and 22, by striking out "is perpetual in duration" in line 21, all of line 22 and inserting Mr. ARMSTRONG. Could you tell the House what your created after the effective date of this act may be perpetual in amendment does? Can you tell the House what your duration, but in no event shall be for a duration of less than 25 amendment does, please? years. Mr. CURRY. Okay. We are ready. Amend Sec. 4, page 3, line 24, by inserting after "easement" , including prior unrecorded easements Mr. ARMSTRONG. Okay. I said, can you tell the House 'C intended to provide services of a oublic what your amendment does? utility nature, M;. CURRY. Yes. This amendment is in recognition of Amend Sec. 4, page 3, lme 26, by mserting after "or" expressly clarifying the rights of prior easements, whether or not Amend Sec. 5, page 4, lines 16 through 18, by strking out ~coTde4 and whether they would be impaired by this all of lines 16 and 17, "subject to a conservation easement" in line legislation. The provision is needed by the public utilities in 18 and inserting Pennsylvania and this has been cleared with them and clarified construed to limit in any way the lawful exercise of eminent domain by any person or entity having legal authority to do so or with them to 'Iari@ the bill. be construed as to restrict any such right to comoensation a holder Mr. ARMSTRONG. Okay. SO you are saying. - that the of a conservation or presirvation easement'may have under present easements are basicall; going to he, according to your applicable law Amend Sec. 5: page 4, line 23, by striking out "or a amendment, grandfathered into this legislation. purchase agreement m lieu of condemnation" Mr. CURRY. Right. Amend Sec. 5, page 4, line 26, by inserting a period after Mr. ARMSTRONG. Okay. Thank you very much. "adjudication" I support the amendment. Thank you. Amend Sec. 5, page 4, line 26, by strlking out "or by the purchase in lieu of condemnation." and inserting The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair recognizes Mr. Nothina in this act shall be construed to orevent a purchase Llovd. agreement in lieu of condemnation as a means of prov;ding fair Mr. LLOYD. Thank you, Madam Speaker. market value to the holder of the easement. Amend Sec. 5, page 4, line 29, by inserting after The amendment is partially intended to address some "incorporation." concerns which were raised by the electric utilities. I have been The court in adjudicating damages to a conservation or in conversation with the Pennsylvania Electric Association, and preservation easement shall he guided by principles generally it is my understanding that if the House adopts this applicable to condemnation proceedings. Amend Sec. 6, page 5, line 1, by striking out "A" and amendment, that association will change its position from one inserting of opposition to the bill to one of neutrality. (a) Conditions.-A For that reason, Madam Speaker, I would urge that we Amend Sec. 6, page 5, by inserting between lines 12 and 13 (b) Recordiia easement.-A conservation or oreservation adopt the amendment. easement shall be rFcurded %)thin 60 days of its effekve date to The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair thanks the be considered an enscmcnt sublect to and enforceable under the gentleman. provisions of this act. Upon proper recording the provisions of For what purpose does the gentleman, Mr. Reber, rise? this act shall apply retroactively to the effective date of the easement. Mr. REBER To debate the bill, Madam Speaker. Amend Sec. 8, page 6, line 10, by inserting after "laws." The SPEAKER pm tempore. The gentleman may proceed Except as expressly otherwise provided herein, nothing in this act on the amendment. is intended to be construed to alter applicable established common law, and accordingly in a manner consistent with common law, Mr. REBER. Thank you. the prior granting of a conservation or preservation easement shall On the amendment, Madam Speaker pro tem, I would v not in any way restrict the right of the fee owner to further grant submit for the edification of the members of our caucus that I to any person or entity for any purpose such other interests in the real property which do not materially impair the prior have reviewed this with additional individuals within the utility conservation or preservation easement, or other easements or community and would confirm that which was previously rights of record, provided, however, that the holder of a stated by Representative Lloyd and therefore would support conservation or preservation easement shall be given 45 days this amendment. Thank you. written notice prior to execution of the subsequent easement. The SPEAKER pm tempore. The Chair thanks the On the question, gentleman. Will the House agree to the amendments? On the question recurring, t The SPEAKER pro tempore. On the question, the Chair Will the House agree to the amendments? recognizes Mr. Curry. 1993 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE 2341

The following roll call was recorded: On the question, Will the House agree to the bill on third considemtion as YEAS-196 amended? ~dolph Fargo hcyk &umn Bill as amended was agreed to. Allen Farmer Lynch Saylor Arpll Fee Maitland Sch& The SPEAKER pro tempore. This bill has been considered Armstrong Fichter Manderioo Sehuler on three different days and agreed to and is now on final Baker Fleagle Markosek Scrimenti Barley Flick Marsico Se-l passage. Battido Freeman Masland Serafini The question is, shall the bill pass finally? Bebko-Jones Gamble Mayemik Smith. B. Agreeable to the provisions of the Constitution, the yeas Belardi Gannon McCall Smith, S. H. and nays will now be taken. Belfanti Geist McGephan Snyder, D. W. Birmelin George McNally Staback YEAS-196 Bishm Gedach Melio Stairs Blaum Giglidti Merry Steelman Adolph Fargo Lucyk Saum BOY= Gladesk Michlovic Sttighner Allen Farmer Lynch saylor Brown Godrhsll Miconie Sttil Argall Fee Maitland kh& Bunt Gordner Mihalich Stem Armstmng Fichter Maaderino khuler Bulkovitz Gruitza Miller Stetler Baker Flea& Markosek krimenti Budon G~ppo Muody Stisb Barley Flick Marsi~ Semwl Calta%irone Halush Murphy Strittmatler Battido Freeman Masland Serafini Capp~bianca Hanna Nailor Sturla Bebko-Jones Gamble Mayemik Smith. B. Cam Harley Nickol suma Belardi Gmon McCall Smith, S. H. Carooe Hasay N~ce Tangetti Belfanti GRst McGeehan Snyder, D. W. Cawley Hennessey O'Brieo Taylor, E. 2. Bimlin George McNally Staback C-r Herman O'Donnell Taylor, J. Bishop Gerlach Melio Stairs Chadwick Henhey Oliver Thomas Blaum Gidiotti Mnry Steelma0 Civera Hess Peael Tigue Boyes Gladeck Michlovic Steighner Clark Hughes Pee Tomlinsoo Brown Godshall Miwlne Steil Clymer Hutchinsoo Petmne Trcllo Bunt Gordner Mihalich Stem Cohen, L. I. Itkin Pettit Trich Butkovitz Gmitza Miller Stetler Cohen. M. Jadlowies Phillips True Buxton G~ppo Mundy Stish Colafella Jamlin Piccola Tulli Caltaarone Haluska Murphy strittmaner Calaizm Josephs Pislella Uliana Cappabianca Hanoa Nailor Studa Conti Kaiser Pins Vance Cam Harley Nickol suma Comell Kasunis Plans Van Home Camoe Hasay N~ce Tar.& Conigan Keller Preston Veon Cawley Heon- O'Brieo Taylor. E. Z. Cowell Kenney Raymond Vitali C-r Herman O'Donoell Taylor, J. Coy King Reber Washington Chadwick Hershey Oliver Thomas curry Kirkland Reinard Waugh Civera Ha9 Penel Tigue Daley Krebs Richardson Williams Clark Hughes Pesci Todinson DeLuca Kukovich Ritter Wogan Clymer Hutchinson Petmoe Trello Dewey LaGrolla Rabees Wmiak Cohen. L. I. Itkin Penit Trich Dent hub Robinson Wright, D. R Cohen. M. Jadlowies Phillip Twe ne-dy Laughlin Rohrer Wright, M. N Colafella Jarolio Piccola Tulli Donatucn Lawless Rmney Yandriswrts Colauzo Josephs Pins Uliana Druce Ledenr Rubley Yewcic Conti Kaiser Plans Vsnce Durham Lee Rudy zug Comell Kasunic Preston Vsn Home Egdf Leh Ryao Conigan Keller Raymond vmn Evans Lescovitz Santoni DeWeese. Cowell Keooqi Reber Vitali Fairchild LNdan~ky Sather Speaker COY King Rtioard Wsshinglon Fajt Lloyd curry Kirkland Richardson waugh Daley Krebs Rim Williams DeLuca Kukovich Roberts Wow Dewey hGrotta Robinson Wozoiak NOT VOTING-2 Dent Laub Roebuck Wright, D. R Dermdy Laughlin Rohrer Wright, M. N. James Roebuck Dooatucn Lawless Rwney Yandriswrts EXCUSED-5 DNE~ Lederer Rubley Ynvcic Durham Lee Rudy Zug Acosta Olasl Petrarca Rieger Egolf Leh Ryao Bush Evans Lescovitz Saotolu DeWeese, Fairchild Levdansky Sather S@er Fajt Lloyd The question was determined in the affirmative, and the amendments were agreed to. 2342 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE DECEMBER 15 NOT VOTING-2 1 YEAS-196 Adolph Fargo Lloyd Santooi Farmer Lucyk Sather b Areall Fee Lwch Saumn AAtroog Fichter Maitland Saylor Baker Fleagle Manderino Sch& Barley Flick Markosek Schuler Ballisto Freeman Manico Scrimenti Bebko-Jon* Gamble Masland Semmel The majority required by the Constitution having voted in Belacdi Gamon Mayermk Serafioi the affirmative, the question was determined in the affirmative Belfaoti Geist McCdl Smith, B. and the bill passed finally. Bimelio Gmrge McGeehan Smith. S. H Ordered, That the clerk present the same to the Senate for Bishop Gelach McNally Snyder, D. W. Blaum Gigliotti Melio Staback t concurrence. Boyes Gladeck men^ Stairs Bmwn G&ball Michlovic Steelman *I* Bunt Gordner Micorzie StR&er Butkovitz Gmitza Mihalich Steil The House proceeded to third consideration of BS 1992, Buxtoo GNP Miller Stem PN 2710, entitled: Caltagimne Hsluska Mwdy Stetler Cappabisnsa Hanoa Mqhy Stish ' An Act providing for the adoption of capital projects to be Cam Harley Nailor Strittmatter fmanced from current revenues of the Game Fund. Carone Hasay Nickol SNrla Cawley Hem- Nyce Sum On the question, Cessar Herman O'Brien Tangreni Will the House agree to the bill on third consideration? Chadwick Hnshey O'Donoell Taylor, J. Mr. LESCOVITZ offered the following amendments No. Civera Hess Oliver nomas Clark Hu%hes Perrel Tip A5038: Clymer Hutchinm Pesci Todinson cohen, L. I Itkin Petmoe Trella Amend Sec. 2, page 1, line 13, by striking out "$962,000" Cohen, M. Jadlowiec Pettit Trich and inserting Calafella James Phillips True $555,000 Colaizm Jamlin ticcols Uliana Amend Sec. 3, page 2, lines 9 through I I, by striking out all Conti Josephs tistella Vance of said lines Comell Kaiser tins Van Home comgan K~NC plans Vma On the question, Cowell Keller Preston Vitali Will the House agree to the amendments? COY Keooey Raymond Washinglon curry King Reba waugh The SPEAKER pro tempore. On the question, the Chair Ddey Kirkland Reinard William DeLuca Krebs Richardson Wogao recognizes Mr. Lescovitz. Kukovich &Her Wormak Mr. LESCOVITZ. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Dent Lacm Roberts Wright, D. R - Laub Robinson Wright, M. N. This amendment just takes out the section dealing with DedY Washington County in the bill. DonahlCn Laughlin Roebuck Yandnsevits The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair recognizes Mr. Druce Lawless Rohrer Ywcic Durham Lederer Rmney zu% Sum. Egolf Lee Rubley Mr. SURRA. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Evans Leh Rudy DeWeese, This is an agreed-to amendment. Fairchild Lescwitc Ryan Sxaker Lwdaorky The SPEAKER pm tempre. The Chair recogmzes Mr. Fajt Phillips. Mr. PHILLIPS. Thank you, Madam Speaker. I would agree with this amendment. I think it is more than NOT VOTING-2 right that the Game Commission cextainly should check with Taylor, E. Z. Tulli the legislator of that particular district whether they take land and put it intb State game land or not. So I would agree with this amendment, and I would ask my Acosta Olae Petrarca Pieger Bush colleagues to vote for it. The SPEAKER pm tempre. The Chair thanks the The question was determined in the affirmative, and the gentleman. amendments were agreed to. On the question recurring, On the question, W Will the House agree to the amendments? Will the House agree to the hill on third consideration as amended? The following mll call was recorded: Bill as amended was agreed to. 1993 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE 2343

The SPEAKER pro tempore. 'This hill has been considered The majority required by the Constitution having voted in on three different days and agreed to and is now on find the affirmative, the question was determined in the affirmative passage. and the hill passed finally. The question is, shall the hill pass finally? Ordered, That the clerk present the same to the Senate for Agreeable to the provisions of the Constitution, the yeas concurrence. and nays will now be taken. ANNOUNCEMENT BY MR. FREEMAN YEAS-196 Adolph Fargo Lynch saum The SPEAKER pro tempore. For what p~uposedoes the Allen Farmer Maitland Saylor gentleman, Mr. Freeman, rise? Argall ~ee Maoderino Scheetz Mr. FREEMAN. Madam Speaker, I rise merely to bring to AmuZmng Fichter Markosek Schuler Baker Fleagle Marsico Scrimenti the attention of the members of the House that one of the Barley Ijlick Masland S-1 packets of amendments that have been distributed to us Battisto F-n Mayemik Serafini erroneously lists the bill as SB 1956 and it in fact should be Bebko-Jones Gamble McCall Smith, B. HB 1956, and contained within this packet is also an Brlardi Gannon McGeehan Smith. S. H. Belfanti Geisl McNally Snyder, D. W. amendment that will be offered by the gentleman, Mr. Suna, Himelin George Melio Slahack to HB 2198, so there was an amendment that does not pertain Bishap (ierlash Men~ shim to HB 1956 which was also inserted in this packet. Blaum Gigliotti Michlavlc Steelman I realize there is a fluny of amendments. It is Boyes Gladesk Micorde StR&er Bmwn Godshall Mihalich StRl understandable that there is going to be some confusion right Bunt Gordner Miller Stem now, hut I just wanted to make sure the membership was Butkovltz Gluitm Muody Stetler aware of the fact that this pink packet does not pertain to a Buxton G~ppo Murphy Stish Senate hill but actually a House bill. Caltagirone Haluska Nailor Strittmatt~r Cappabianca Hanna Nickol Sturla The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair thanks the Cam Harlw Nwe Slllra -eentleman. Camne Hasay 0'~rien Tsngrem Cawley Hennessey O'Donnell Taylor, E. Z. Cessar Hemo Oliver Taylor, 1. BILLS ON THIRD Chadwick Hershey Penel Thomas CONSIDERATION CONTINUED Civera Hess Pesci Tigue Clark Hughes Petmne Tomlinson 'Ibe House proceeded to third consideration of FIB 398, PN Clymer ~u&hioson Pettit Trella 916, entitled: Cohen. L. Itkin Phillips T"ch Cohen. M Jadlowies Piccola Tme An Act amending the act of March 10, 1949 (P.L.30,No.14), Colafella Jarolin Pislells Tulli known as the Public School Code of 1949, further providing for Colizm Josephs Pitts UIiana adoption of school district budgets. Conti Kaiser Plalts vance Camell Kasuolc Preston Van Home On the question, Conigan Keller Raymond Veon Will the House agree to the bill on third considelation? Cowell Kenney Reber Vitali Coy King Reinard Washiwon Mr. MAYERNIK offered the following amendments No. cv Krebs Richardson Waugh A4703: Daley Kukovlch Ritter Williams DeLuca LaGrdta RoMs Wogso Amend Title, page 1, line 6, by removing the period aAer Dewsey Laub Robinson Wozniak "budgets" and inserting Dm1 Iaughlin Roebuck Wright, D. R for liability for tuition and enforcement of Dedy Lawless Rohrer Wright, M. N. payment and for cost of tuition. Donatucsi Loderer Rwney Yandrisevits Amend Sec. 2, page 4, line 11, by striking out all of said Dtuce Lee Rubley Yewcic line and inserting Durham Leh Rudy zu% Section 2. Sections 1308 and 1309 of the act, amended June Egolf Lescovitz Ryan 7, 1993 (P.L.49, No.16), are amended to read: Evans Levdansky Santani DoWeese, Section 1308. Liability for Tuition and Enforcement of Fdrchild Lloyd Sather Swker Payment.-@ In all cases not covered by the preceding section if Fajt Lucyk a charge is made by any school district for tuition for the inmates of any such institution, the officers of the institution shall submit ta the board of school directors a sworn statement, setting forth the names. aees. and school districts liable for tuition of all NOT VOTING-:! children whoare inmates thereof, and desire to attend public school in the district. The district in which the institution is Jamen K~rkland located shall obtain a blank acknowledging or disclaiming residence, signed by the secretary of the school district in which EXCUSES5 the institution declares the legal residence of the child to be. If said district shall fail to file said blank w~thinfifteen (15) days Acosta Olasz Petrarca Rieger from the date it is sent to the district by registered mail, the Bush 2344 LEGISLATIVE J(3URNAL - HOUSE DECEMBER 15 district in which the institution is located shall again notify the Section 4. This act shall take effect as follows: district of its failure to comply with the provisions of this act. If (1) This section shall take effect immediately. the district shall fail to comply within fifteen (15) days following (2). . The remainder of this act shall take effect in 15 the second notice, said failures to return the blank shall be days. k construed as an acknowledgement of said child's residence. The tuition of such inmates as are included in the sworn statement to On the question, the board of school directors shall be paid by the district of residence of the inmates upon receipt of a bill from the district in Will the House agree to the amendments? which the institution is located setting forth the names, ages and tuition charges of the inmates. The district so charged with tuition The SPEAKER pro tempore. On the question of the may file an appeal with the Secretary of Education, in which it amendment, the Chair recognizes Mr. Mayernik. shall be the comolainant and the district in which the institution Mr. MAYERNM. Thank you, Madam Speaker. is located the ;espondent. The decision of the Secretary of Education, as to which of said parties is responsible for tuition, This amendment sets up a schedule for payment of tuition by the districts of residents of a child placed in an institution shall be final. b (b) If a bill submitted under subsection la) remains unpaid in another district. If the tuition bill remains unpaid for more for more than sixty (60) davs, the district subminina the bill may than 60 days afler receipt of the bill, the Secretary of request that the secretarv transfer the amount billed. Upon receipt of such request, the secretary shall withhold, from any moneys Education is authorized to fonvard the funds to the district in due. the amounts owed by the district charged under subsection which the institution is located and to withhold the amount (a), and shall oav that amount to the requesting district. Such from the district of residence's Commonwealth's payments. It action of the secretarv shall be final. also provides for eliminating or removing the 150-percent cap @ If any inmates have been received from outside of Pennsylvania, or if the institution cannot certify as to their and providing for cost of actual payment. residence, their tuition shall be paid bv the institution having the What I would like to do is tell you what has brought me to care or custodv of said children. excebt in the case of medizallv place this amendment into this legislation. My home school ~ndigentch~ldren ht~sp~tal~~ed in ~.~ilu(~\sIy charitable chilJren's hosp~talsexempt under section 5Ol(c,(3, of 11,s Inlcrnal Revenue district has individuals that are children with most severe Code which make no charges to any of its patients nor accepts any disabilities, both physically and mentally handicapped, that third-party payments for services provided to any of its patients. have been placed there by other school districts or by the In such cases their tuition shall be aid bv the Commonwealth out of moneys appropriated by the Gen'eral ~ssembl~for the purposes courts, and the cost of educating that child is $28,000, of this act. Enrollment of any out-of-state student in a school approximately, and they have been placed there by the home district or intermediate unit program shall be conditioned upon a school district. The host school district now has to pay the guarantee, or actual advance receipt, of tuition and transportatian excess over the $7,500. Their normal cost is $5,000. With a oavment, from the institution. from the student's home state or out- of-state. school d~slr~ct,or from thc out-of-stale party ur agcncy cap at 150 percent, it brings them up to $7,500, but the actual which placed the student in the instltullon, except m ths case dl' cost of educating a child is $28,000. My school district is medicallv mdiyenl ch~ldrcnho\p~talr,rd in rxclusivsly cllarltable suffering economically at a loss of $300,000 alone just for the childreni hosGtals exempt under section 501 (c)(3) ofihe Internal Revenue Code which make no charges to any of its patients nor education of these children that have been placed there either accepts any third-party payments for services provided to any of by the courts or by their parents. its patients where the Commonwealth is paying the tuition as So even though my school district is not the home school otherwise orovided for in this oaranra~h.. -. If the Secretarv of 1:ducation hecides that the legal residence oi any ol'saiJ in&dteJ district but yet the host school district, they are suffering IS m Pennsylvania, but cdnuor be fixed in a parucular iiirtr~ct.the economically, and the school district I am referring to, Commonwealth shall pay the luition of such inmale dut uf mdney, Avonworth School District, is not the only one in Allegheny appropriated to the Department of Education by the General County that is facing this problem. 'There are at least I I other Assembly for the maintenance and support of the public schools of the Commonwealth. school districts in Allegheny County that I have identified Section 1309. Cost of Tuition; How Fixed.-(a) The cost of which leads us to about one-fourth of the school districts in the tuition in such cases shall be fixed as is now orovided bv law for county. Using that as a barometer, I would say that every tuition costs in other cases, except in the following circumstances: (I) Where, for the accommodation of such children, it shall Representative in this chamber today would have at least one be nece'ssarv to orovide a seoarate school or to erect additional school district, or close to it, that has the same problem. school bu~lhm~ithe charge' for tuition fur such chlldren may So we are looking to rectify this. We have the approval of include a propurtnonale cost of the opsrating uxprnbes, rental. and the Department of Education, and they have agreed with this W interest on any investment required to be made in erecting such new school buildings. language. (2) When a child who is an inmate of an institution is an 1 would ask for an affirmative vote on the amendment, exceptional child, the district in which the institution is located Madam Speaker. may charge the district of residence, and the district of residence shall pay a special education charge in addition to the applicable The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair thanks the tuition charge. [Such special education charge shall not exceed an gentleman and recognizes Mr. Battisto. additional fifty percent (50%) of the applicable tuition charge.] Mr. BATITSTO. Thank you, Madam Speaker. This soecial education charge, when added to the generally Madam Speaker, this is an agreed-upon amendment, as far aoolicable tuition charae, shall equal the actual cost of educating such children. as I am concerned. (b) The tuition herein provided for shall be paid annually by The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair thanks the k the Secretary of Education, the district of residence or the gentleman and recognizes Chairman Cowell. institution as the case may be. Section 3. The amendments of sections 1308 and 1309 of Mr. COWELL. Thank you, Madam Speaker the act shall be retroactive to July 1, 1993. LEGISLATIVE J( URNAL - HOUSE

I would also urge that we agree to the Mayemik amendment. The Mayemik amendment is intended to clarify responsibility for the payment of cellain costs related to special NAYS4 education students and is intended to make more enforceable NOT VOTING-1 the provisions that are intended to be in the law. I think it is going to be helpful to our school districts. My understanding Allen is, it is supported by the Pennsylvania School Boards EXCUSED-5 Association. I would urge the agreement with the amendment. Thank Awsta Olaa P&ma R~w Bush you. The SPEAKER pro tempore. 'lk Chair thanks the gentleman. The question was determined in the affirmative, and the amendments were agreed to. On the question retuning, Will the House agree to the amendments? On the question, Will the House agree to the bill on third consideration as The following roll call was recorded: amended? YEAS-197 Mr. FAIRCHILD offed the following amendments No. A4859: Adolph Fwr hcyk Saurman ArBall Fee Lynch Saylw Amend Title, page 1, line 6, by removing the period after Armmng Fichter Maitland Scheetz "budgets" and inserting Baker Manderino SEhuler , for liability for tuition, for enforcement of Bdv Rick Markosek Scrimenti payment and for cost of tuition; and making Bauista Freeman Manico Semmel editorial changes. Bebk~Joaes Gamble Masland Serafini Amend Sec. 2, page 4, line 11, by striking out all of said Belar& Gannon Mayemik Smith, B. line and inserting Belfanti Geist MsCall Smith, S. H. Section 2. Section 1305 of the act, amended February 17, Birmelin George McGeehan Snyder, D. W. 1956 11955 P.L.1065. No.3421 and Januarv. 14.. 1970 (1969 Bishop Gedash McNelly Staback ~.~.466,No.192), is amended t& read: Blaum Gigliotti Melio Shim Section 1305. Non-resident Child Placed in Home of Boyes Gladeck Memi Steelman Resident.-(a) When a non-resident child is placed in the home of Bmw Godshall Michlovic Steighne a resident of any school district by order of court or by Bunt Gordoer Mihe Steil arrangement with an association, agency, or institution having the ButkoviIz Gruim Mihalich Stem care of neglected and dependent children, such resident being Buxton Gruppo Miller Stetler compensated for keeping the child, any child of school age so Callagimoe Elaluska Mundy Stish placed shall be entitled to all free school privileges accorded to Cappabsanca Hama Murphy Strittmaner resident school children of the district, including the right to Cam Harley Nailor Sturla anend the public high school maintained in such district or in Carone Hasay Nickol surm other districts in the same manner as though such chid were in Cawley Heon- Nyce Tangretti fact a resident school child of the district. Cessar Herman O'BIien Taylor, E. Z. (b) Any resldanl oi any school drstrrct, before acceptlug Chsdulck Hemhey O'DameU Taylor, J. custody of a non-restdeot ch~ldof school age for compensation by Civera Hess Oliver nomap order of court or by arrangement with an association, agency, or Clark Hughes Peael Tipe institution having the care of dependent or neglected children, Clyma Hutchinsoo Pesci Tomlimn must secure, from the superintendent of schools or school board Cohen, L. I. Itkin Petmne Trello in that district, a statement in writing that the child can be Cohen, M. Jadlowiec Peait Trich accommodated in the schools of the district or that the child can Colafelllla James Phillip Tme not be accommodated and the reasons therefor. If such statements Colaizc Jamlin Piccola Tulli are not furnished within two weeks after a request in writing has Conti Joqhs Pisella Uliana been made to the board's secretary, the superintendent of schools, Comell Kaiser Pitts Vance the boarfi assent shall be assumed, and the child shall be Corrigan Kasunic plans Van Home admined to the schools of the district as a pupil. If such statement Cowell Keller Preston Veoo sets forth conditions such as to exempt the district under +is COY Keooey Raymuod Vilali section from accepting the child as a pupil, and if such exemption is not disapproved on appeal bv the ISuuerintendent of Public curry King Reber Washingloo lnst~~t~~nj's~creta~oi~du~at;un, ak liother arrangement for Daley Kirkland Reinard Wad DeLuca Krebs Richardson Williams the ~h~ldbs~ht~ol~ng satlsfactury to the dlstrlcl superintendent 1s not made, the child may not be placed in the district. msey Kukwich Riner Wogan Deot LaGmtta RDberts Womiak @ Appeal from the claim of any school district for Dedy Laub Rcbinson Wright, D. R exemption, as provided in this section, may be taken to the Donatucci Laughlin Raebuck Wright, M. N. Superintendent of Public Instruction, and his decision thereon aft& investigation shall be final. Dmce Lawless Rohrer Yandnsevits and 2562 for Durham Led- Rmney Yewcic Id) If a bill submitted under sections 2561 students attendina a district under subsections (a) and (b) remains &olf LEC Rubley Zug Evans Leh unpaid for more than sixtv (60) days. the district submininu the Rudy bill may request that the Secretary of Education transfer the 2346 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE DECEMBER 15

amount billed. Upon receipt of such request. the Secretary of Bayes Gladeck Merry Steelman Education shall withhold, from any moneys due, the amounts Bmwo Godshall Michlovic Steighner owed bv the district charged under this section and sections 2561 Bunt Gordner Miconie Steil (relatinn to tuition charges for pu~ilsof other districts) and 2562 Butkovitz Gruitza Mihalich Stem (relatinn to payments by districts for puoils attending in other Bumon Gw Miller Stetler 'r districts) and shall pay that amount to the requesting district. Such Caltagirooe Haluska Mundy Stish action of the Secretary of Education shall be final. Cappabianca Hsona MW~Y Strinmatler (e) The provisions of other sections notwithstanding, if a Cam Harley Nailor Sturla child anendinn a school district under subsections (a) and (b) is Carone Hasay Nickol Suma an exceptional child, the district in which the institution is located Cawley Hennessey Nyce Tangetti mav charge the district of residence, and the district of residence Cessar Hemn O'Brieo Taylor, E. 2. shall pav a special education charge in addition to the ap~licable Chadwick Hershey O'Doonell Taylor, J. tuition charge. This special education charae. when added to the Civera Hess Oliver nomas generally applicable tuition char~e,shall equal the actual cost of Clark Hugha Peml Tigue educatina such children. Clymn lhtchinson Pessi Tomlinsan Section 3. The amendment of section 1305 of the act shall Cohen, L. I. llkin Petrooe Trello W be retroactive to July 1, 1993. Cohen, M. Jadlowiw Pettit Trish Section 4. This act shall take effect as follows: Cdafella James Phillips True (I) This section shall take effect immediately. Colaim Jarolio Piccola Tulli (2) The remainder of this act shall take effect in 15 Conli Joqhs Pistella Llliana days. Comell Kaixr Pills Vance Corrigan Kasunis Plans Van Home On the question, Cowell Keller Premo Veon Will the House agree to the amendments? COY Kenney Raymond Vitali CW King Reber Washington The SPEAKER pro tempore. On the amendment, the Chair Daley Kirkland Reinard Waugh recognizes Mr. Fairchild. DeLuca Kreh Richardson Williams Dewey Kukovieh Riner Wogsn Mr. FAIRCHILD. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Dent LaGrotta Roberts Wmniak For the reasons given by Representative Mayernik, many Dermody Laub Rcbinsoo Wright. D. R of the same reasons apply to my language which very closely Donatucci Laughlin Roebuck Wright, M. N. Dm- Lawless Rohrer Yandnxvits resembles his, and basically what we are saying is that if you Durham Lederer Rmney Ywcic have a foster-care child from a home district that goes to Egolf Lee Rubley Zu8 another district, the hnding will follow them for their special Evans Leh Rudy education needs. Fairchild Lescovllz Ryan DeWeex, It is my understanding that this is an agreed-to amendment, Fajt Levdunsky Santoni Speaker and 1would appreciate the support of all the members here, NAYS-0 and certainly your school district will also be affected by this. Thank you. NOT VOTING-0 The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair thanks the EXCUSES5 gentleman and recognizes Mr. Battisto. Acosta Olas Petarca Keger Mr. BATITSTO. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Bush The gentleman is right, Madam Speaker. This is an agreed- upon amendment, and I urge its adoption. The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair thanks the The question was determined in the affirmative, and the gentleman. amendments were agreed to. ! On the question recurring, FILMING PERMISSION Will the House agree to the amendments? The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair wishes to advise The following roll call was recorded: members that she has given permission to Frank Paul Nagy, Pittsburgh filmmaker, to take still photographs on the House floor during the proceedings regardmg Representative Tom Adolph Fargo Lloyd Sather Allen Fa-r Lucyk Saumn Murphy. ArBall Fee Lynch Saylor -08 Fichler Mailland Sshe CONSIDERATION OF HB 398 CONTINUED Baker Fleagle Maoderina Schuler Barley Flick Markosek Scrimenti On the question recurring, BsltisIo Freeman Manico Semmel Will the House agree to the bill on third consideration as Bebk+Jones Gamble Masland Serafirti Belardi Gannon Mayernik Smith. B. amended? Belfaoti Geist McCall Smith. S. H. Mr. COWELL offered the following amendments No. Bimlia George McGeehao Snyder, D. W. A4883: Birhap Gerlach MsNally Stabaek Blaum Giglidti Melio Stairs 1993 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE 2347

Amend Title, page 1, line 6, by removing the period after Madam Speaker, I urge the adoption of the amendment. "budgets" and inserting Thank you very much. and for work to be done under contract let on bids. The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair recognizes Mr. Amend Bill, page 4, by inserting between lines 10 and 11 Schuler. Section 2. Section 751 of the act is amended by adding a Mr. SCHULER Thank you, Madam Speaker. subsection to read: I rise in suppon of the cowell amendment. Section 751. Work to be Done Under Contract Let on Bids; Exception.-* Recently in Lancaster County we had a problem that ) Notwithstanding any other provision of law, selection by developed over this situation. I think the Cowell amendment a sch?ol district far professional services of a construction will resolve that problem and clarify the existing law. In our manaeement firm shall be on the basis of demonstrated comwtence and an the professional qualifications nocessarv for situation it created some real delay and some added costs. So tho satisfactory performance of the services required and that such I would ask the members to support the Cowell amendment. services shall be exempt from the provisions of subsection (aL Thank you, Madam Speaker. Any firm pra~osingto provide construction program manaRement The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair thanks the services pursuant to this act shall provide evidence that the fum and its personnel carryina nut responsibilities have expertise and gentleman and recognizes Mr. Nyce. experience in construction propram review and evaluation, value Mr. NYCE. Thank you, Madam Speaker. engineering. cost-benefit analysis. budgetinp and estimatinp, bid I wonder if the maker of the amendment would stand for evaluation. proiect schedulinp. construction mobilization and supervision, claims review and neaotiation and general a brief interrogation. manancment and admin~strationof a construction prosram. The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman indicates that Amcnd Sec. 2, page 4, line 11, by striking out "2" and he will. The gentleman mav. .aroceed. inserting Mr. Thank you. 3 ~cE. Madam Speaker, could you please tell me whether or not On the question, there are any financial limitations on the amount that would be Will the Housc agree to the amendments? paid to the construction manager before they would be allowed to hire without a bidding process? The StrI

- -- Madam Speaker, I would like to comment on the sofor that reason a lot of folks in the field are asking that amendment. we exempt those particular se~cesfrom the bid requirements The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman may proceed. of the School Code. % Mr. NYCE. Madam Speaker, as a former school director Mr. GRUITZA. Okay. and having participated in a significant amount of bidding, I Just as a followup to that. This construction manager, how am somewhat concerned, although I understand the gentleman's does this compare-I have heard the expression used in the past intention with this amendment, to provide some freedom for hut maybe not so much most recently with school construction the local school boards. I am also concerned about the aspect contracts-where a title is given as the clerk of the works? My of the amount of the contract that could be allowed under these understanding was historically, tdtionally, a person hired as conditions without an appropriate hid process. So I would be the clerk of the works pretty much took on that function, as seriously concerned that we would not be restricting this in any opposed to the school superintendent, that it was the clerk of way and would admonish the rest of the members to at least the works that kind of oversaw the construction of a school be aware of that before they vote on allowing this aspect of building or renovation, making sure that what was being done this bill to be passed without any restrictions. Thank you. was being done in accordance with the architect's plans, et The SPEAKER pm tempore. The Chair thanks the cetera. Is that the same thing? gentleman and recognizes Mr. Gruitza. Mr. COWELL. I do not know. Madam Speaker, the answer Mr. GRUITZA. Thank you, Madam Speaker. is I do not know. I am not familiar with that term. It may well I am rising to ask if the sponsor of the amendment will be one and the same or a similar function, hut I am not consent to an interrogation. familiar with that label. The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman indicates that Mr. GRUITZA. One last question, and it may not be he will. Mr. Gruitza, you may proceed. directly related to this, but it is certainly directly related to Mr. GRUlTZA. Madam Speaker, what is the current school costs. Do you know what the practice is across the State practice right now? I understand that we had a project up in where construction managers are hired as far as the architect's my district where a construction manager, I believe, was fees? What is the standard practice there with school retained by the district to oversee the comction of this constru,ction? Are they then given an additional 6 percent of school, and could you just maybe enlighten the House on what the contract awarded to the construction manager? Is that the pnxedm would have been that our district would have considered as part of the overall cost of construction, thereby usad? allowing the architect to charge an additional fee because of Mr. COWELL. Madam Speaker, my understanding is that that additional cost? there has been some confusion around the State with respect Mr. COWELL. Are you asking, is it practice around the to the need for the services of a construction manager to State for the architect to receive a commission on the basis of actually be bid. Traditionally, there was no such activity, first a set of construction costs that would include expenses for the of all. Let me say, there was no such profession, if you will. construction manager? It was an activity or a function that was normally performed Mr. GRUITZA. That is correct. by school superintendents, who would oversee the construction Mr. COWELL. Now, 1 do not know what the practice is. going on in a particular school district and report back to the I have had no conversation about that particular issue. I do not school board. know what the practice is. Increasingly, school districts and superintendents in Mr. GRUITZA. Thank you. particular have found it usell to have another adviser, if you Mr. COWELL. In any event, Madam Speaker, the practice will, a construction manager with expertise in that area, to would be applied whether those services are the subject of a oversee the project. The concern that has arisen around the bid requirement or not. Now, whether or not it is appropriate State, as I understand it, is whether or not those particular for that practice to be applied is another question, hut I do not setvices must be the subject of a hid, and I am told that think it is directly related to the issue at hand; that is, whether increasingly, the advice that is being given to superintendents these services are going to be awarded on the basis of bid only and school boards is that the senrices of a construction or something other than bid. t manager would be subject to the bid requirements in the Mr. GRUITZA. Just maybe one final question. School Ccde. Would the services of a construction manager-so I have an Mr. GRUITZA. If I could follow up. understanding of this-in effect be a complementary senrice to Mr. COWELL. In the view of a lot of school directors and the design professionals or the engineers involved in the superintendents, that is the kind of service that should not be project? Would that- awarded, if you will, or the type of contiact that should not be Mr. COWELL. I do not know that I would call it awarded on the basis of who happens to come in with the complementary. lowest bid, but instead, they would prefer to make that kind of The construction manager is, in my view, more the ,, award using their judgment and using criteria that has to do enforcer, if you will, or the quality person. The construction with professional competence and a demonstrated track record. manager is on site as the eyes and the ears of the school district to make sure that all of the other terms of the contract 1993 LEGISLATIVE J( 1URNAL - HOUSE 2349

and the contracts are actually being fulfilled. I have had it our school boards up into the 20th century as we approach the explained to me by a superintendent in layperson's language. 21st century. The superintendent says, 1 am trained to be an educator and Back in the beginning of this century, there was a law administrator, not a construction manager. It is too easy for passed, the Separations Act, which has created overspending folks out there who are putting up a buildng, you know, when it comes to school building construction. We have whether it is the person who is doing masonry work or proved that with the prison programs that we have gone electrical work or whatever it might be, to do things, and through in tlus Commonwealth. We have proven that lease through my ignomce, 1 do not know that they may not be acquisition for building prisons works. It comes in ahead of fulfilling the terms of the contract. This superintendent said, I time, at below cost; it is much cheaper than the traditional way need somebody who is trained in his business, who is a and was done in the past by following the Separations Act. professional in this business, and who will work for me, the Even our Department of General Services' Secretazy has superintendent, or me, the school district, to make sure that the advocated that we should be doing all of our building the way terms of the contract are being fulfilled as we require. that we have built the prisons. Mr. GRUITZA. You see, I am trying to get, in some Unfortunately, the last 3 years we have been trying to give respects, a handle on what the role of the architect is. I know the school boards this ability. When we do not do that, now normally in their contracts they provide the plans and designs they must resort to these building managers, business plus they also oversee construction, and I am trying to get a managers. They would not have to resoll to these over-$1- handle on, you know, who is actually responsible for what here million nonbid contracts if we would give them the right to at and who is being paid what, and if a construction- least acquire their school buildings the same as we build the Mr. COWELL. Well, Madam Speaker, I am not in that prisons. Right now it costs maybe $1 17, $120 asquare foot to business either, so 1 perhaps speak from some degree of build a school building when, if we repealed the Separations ignorance, but I believe there is a difference behveen the Act, we would end up spending maybe $69 or $70 a square responsibilities of the architect and the function of the architect foot. So the difference between the $69 and $70 a square foot and those of the construction manager. The architect is more up to $1 15, $120 a square foot, that is how the school district a front-end person, in my view. A construction manager, again, can still save money and pay someone $1 million to show is there to make sure that the terms of the contracts are them how to save it. actually being fulfilled. The architect comes forward with ideas I would ask Representative Cowell, you know, to please and plan? and pro~sals.Somebody bids to do that work, gets move out our bill to allow the school districts to build school a contract to perform that work, and then the construction buildings the same way that we build prisons, and they would manager has a responsibility or a role to play on behalf of the he able to save all the money and not have to go this route. In school district to make sure that the contracts are being the meantime we should allow the school districts at least to implemented as required. save the money that they can. So I would say that we should Mr. GKUITZA. Madam Speaker, may I speak to the issue? suppon this amendment today or at the same time be pushing The SPEAKER pro tempore. 'me gentleman may proceed. our leaders to bring up our bills to allow lease acquisition for Mr. GRUITZA. 'lhank you. school construction costs. That is something the school boards 1 do not really have any opposition per se to this have asked for as well as this amendment. Thank you. amendment, but I think that we are talking about an area, The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair thanks the given the challenges that we face with our budgets here in gentleman and recognizes Mr. Schuler for the second time. Hanisburg and at the local level, where school construction in Mr. SCHULER. Thank you, Madam Speaker. general is something that we should all start paying very close I think the members should realize that it is possible with attention to, and that is why 1 rose to ask these questions, this to have a no-bidding situation, but the other side of this because some of these issues have surfaced with regard to coin is as follows: The management team takes the architect's some projects back in my district. plans, and his fee, the arclutect's fee, is based on the total cost We should know, when we vote on this amendment, that of the program or the building, but the management fees are a these could be nonbid contracts that amount to substantial flat rate, and the management's job is to find wt where costs amounts of money, and we are leaving an awful lot of can be cut. That is the best side of this whole amendment, the discretion with regard to the selection of these professionals facl that the management team is a cost saver for each school who do this work. district. The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair thanks the 1 ask our members to keep that in mind when they vote on gentleman and recognizes Mr. Strittmatter. this bill. Thank you. Mr. SI'Rl'ITMA7TER. Thank you. The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair thanks the I would like to point out to the memberslup, with these gentleman. questions dealing with a construction manager, that the only Ihe Chair recognizes Representative Nyce. reason that the school districts have to go this route is for the Mr. NYCE. Thank you, Madam Speaker. fact that we have failed to bring the Commonwealth and allow One more brief question for the maker of the amendment. 2350 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE DECEMBER 15

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman indicates that reviewing the bids for the subcontractors and managing the he will stand for interrogation. You may proceed, Mr. Nyce. entire project. So in my $10-million proposal as a general Mr. NYCE. Madam Speaker, could you tell us whether or contractor, I will include many of the same items that would not there is anyUung in this amendment that wwld require be done if a professional construction manager did it. Now, if \ school districts to hire a construction manager? I do not a construction manager proposes a project, they may be able believe there is, but I wanted to make sure. to bid that same project for $9 million because the cost of the Mr. COWELL. Madam Speaker, the answer is there is construction manager's services are no longer biddable. How nothing in this amendment that would require a school district do you reconcile that difference? In other words, does this to hire a construction manager. This amendment speaks only amendment then put an advantage to every project that is to the manner in which a contract may be entered into with a proposed by a construction manager because their cost no construction manager if a school district wishes to do that. longer is subject to competitive bidding, and therefore, would Mr. NYCE. Madam Speaker, I believe you said earlier that they then not be included in the total cost comp~sonswhen you are not aware of any established set fee of a percentage txying to find the least cost for that project? that is charged by construction managers, so that it would Mr. COWELL. Madam Speaker, as 1 understand the remain negotiable between the school board and the process and the practice in the field, these kinds of services construction manager, whomever they may hire. Is that tlue? normally would not be subject to inclusion in that general bid Mr. COWELL. That is my understanding, Madam Speaker. of which the gentleman speaks. As far as I know, there is nothing in the law that speaks to In any event, the language in this amendment does not percentages. There may be a practice in the field that I am not affect that one way or the other, but I think the language does aware of, but I am speaking about what is in the law. reflect, again, what I understand to be a practice, and that is, Mr. NYCE. Thank you, Madam Speaker. this is a separate se~cetreated separately. The only thing that Again, Madam Speaker, may I make a comment on the this amendment addresses is the pmcess by which a school amendment? district can award a contract for these services or for this The SPEAKER pm tempore. You may proceed. function, and right now there is increasingly a view, in the Mr. NYCE. Madam Speaker, although I rose earlier to alert eyes of solicitors, that these services must be hid. This would the members to the potential cost, it has been brought to my provide language in the law that would provide an exception attention that the purpose of the amendment is to not require to those bid requirements and instead of requiring schwl school districts or to create a new position of construction districts to use the bid process, would allow them to make an manager but lather to allow the school districts to have abetter award on the basis of the criteria spelled out in the management tool to control cost. amendment. As a result, I withdraw my earlier objection and would still Mr. SNYDER. Madam Speaker, 1guess my question comes hope that the school districts would meet the intent of the in because maybe there is a difference in perception of what amendment, and that is, to save money and to make sure that a professional construction manager does. It is my perception the comtmction contracts meet the architect's original design that when a school district hires a professional construction plans and the budget that was originally appropriated for manager, then that construction manager in essence goes out school construction. Thank you. and seeks bids from various contractors for different elements The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair thanks the of it and that those different elements then are given out by bid gentleman and recognizes Mr. Snyder. at the lowest price. You know, in other words, if I go to an Mr. SNYDER Thank you, Madam Speaker. electrical contractor as a professional construction manager, I I would also like to interrogate the maker of the still have to basically put up for bid and the lowest electrical amendment. contract bid gets approved by the construction manager. The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman indicates that However, if I am a school district comparing two alternatives he will stand for interrogation. You may proceed. presented to us, one by a professional construction manager ,~~ Mr. SNYDER Again, Madam Speaker, 1 apologize if this and one by ABC General Constmction, who will do the entire issue has been raised, and if it has, maybe just quickly answer project, that it is very difficult to compare apples and oranges 'F it for me. here, because the first decision they make is, do we go with a One of the issues that always comes up with the bidding professional manager or with a general contractor? If we go process for a school project is differentiating the cost that a with a professional manager, you have already excluded a general contractor includes in their bid for basically general contractor from the process even though that general management of a project versus the cost of a project that is contractor may have been able to present a package that is pmposed by aprofessional construction manager who bids, you more competitive than what a professional contractor, service know, the project separately under the management contract. manager, can do by doing it in pieces. That is my question: Let me give you an example. How does this impact by taking them out of the formula for A project of, say, a $l@-million improvement to a school comparison? Do we now tilt in favor of professional ,. building. I am a general contractor bidding for that project, and construction managers in almost every situation because of the of course, in my bid proposal I am going to include the cost of way it is done? 1993 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE 2351

Mr. COWELL. Madam Speaker, it was hand to hear the Civ- Hess O'Donnell Taylor, 1. entire questio~hut I think I can be responsive to the Hugbes Oliver Thomas Hulchinson Peml Tomhnson gentleman's point and also perhaps give a more full answer to Cohen,E:kr M. ltkio pesci Trello a question raised by Representative Gmitza earlier when he I Colafella Jadlowiec Petrone Trich asked about the clerk of the works. This is a summary that I Colain*, James Pettit Ttue did not have handy when was trying to respond to the Conti Jamlin Phillip Tulli I Cornell Josephs Piccola Uliana question raised by Representative Gmiaa. I think it may also Comgan Kaiser Pistella Vance be responsive to Representative Snyder's question. Cowell Kasuoic Pius Van Home It is an attempt to summarize what a construction manager COY Keller Plans Veon Curry Kenney Reston Washington is all about. Constmction managers replaced the clerk of the Daley Kirkland Raymood waugh works, who previously managed constmction projects. DeLuca Krebs Reber Williams Unfortunately, many of the clerks of the works had no Dm- Kukovich RRnard wow knowledge of the construction industry. In fact, many times Dent LaGmtta Richardson Womiak De~dy Laub Rina Wright, D. R these clerks of the works were school district employees, the Danalucci Isughlio Roberts Wright, M. N. school principal, or a school superintendent whose time was Dtuce kher Robinson Yandriswil~ better utilized in teachine- and not in overseeine- a huge Durham Lee Roebuck zug constmction project. The point is that this constmction Leh Rohrer 2"; hovitz Rmney DeWeese, manager is not replacing a role or not filling a role played by .Fairchild.. . . rpv,iansk Rudv soeaker - I - the general contractor hut, instead, replacing or filling a role NAYS-15 that previously was .played . by or fulfilled by a school I emnl&ee.. . I .twically-. cited ;he school suirintendent; I ~amoe Hasay Uoyd Tan@ sometimes it has been-a orincioal or some other'emolovee. - if I Cawley H-esq ~ubley Tipe the school district. Cohen. L. I. King Serafini Ywcic Gerlach Lawless Suna But I think the answer to your question, if I have heard it accurately, is that this function is not a function that was NOT VOTING-I normally filled by the general contractor hut instead was a Vitali function that was filled by an employee or a representative of the school district, typically the superintendent, sometimes the building principal. Acosta Olarz Petma Rieger Mr. SNYDER Thank you, Madam Speaker. Bush The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair thanks the gentleman. The question was determined in the affirmative, and the On the question recurring, amendments were agreed to. Will the IIouse agree to the amendments? On the question retuning, The following roll call was recorded: Will the House agree to the bill on third consideration as amended?

Adol~h Fait Lucvk Rvan RULES SUSPENDED ~lleo Fargo ~yn& Sentooi Argall Farmer Mailland Sather The SPEAKER pro tempore. For what purpose does the Armstrong Foe Mandenno Sawn gentleman, Mr. Battisto, rise? Baker Fichter Markosek Saylor Mr. BA'ITISTO. Madam Speaker, I request a suspension Barley Fleagle Marslco Scheetz Ballisto Flick Masland Scbuler of the rules to offer just two amendments, two specific Bebko-Jones Freeman Mayemik Sctimenti amendments - amendment A5066 and amendment A5065 - Belardi Gamble McCall Semmel and I will call on Representative Sam Smith to explain Belfantt Gannon McGeehan Smith, B. amendment A5065. Bimlio Gist McNallv~ ~ Smith. S. H. Bishop George Melio Snyder. D. W. On the question, Blsum Giglidti Merry Staback Boyes Gladeck Michlovic Stain Will the House agree to the motion? Bmwn Godshall Micozie Steelmao Bunt Gordner Mihalich Stcirhner The following roll call was recorded: Butkovitz Gm~lm Miller ~lki Buxton G~FP Mundy Stem Caltagirone Haluska Murphy Stetler Adolph Fajt Lloyd Saylw CsppabLanca Hanna Nailor Stish Allen Fargo Lucyk Scheetz Cam Harliy Nickol Strillmatter Argall Fa~mer Maodetino Schuler Cessar Hcrman Nyse Slurla Armstroog Fee Markospk Scrimenti Chadulck Hershey O'Brieo Taylor, E. Z. Baker Fichter Marsico Seam1 2352 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE DECEMBER 15

Barley Fleagle Meall Serafini and for transferred programs and classes. Ballisto Rick McCeehan Smith. B. Amend Bill, page 4, line I I, by striking out all of said line &bko-Jones Freeman McNally Smith. S. H. and inserting Belsrdi Gamble Melio Snyder, D. W. Section 2. Section 11 13(a) of the act, amended August 5, &Ifanti Gannoa Mew Staback 1991 IP.L.219. No.251.,. ~-is amended~ to read: Birmelin GkSt ~ichlovic Stairs Section li13. Transferred Programs and Classes.-(a) When Bishop George Micome Steelman a program or class is transferred as a unit from one or more Blaum Gerlach Mihalich Steighoer school entities to another school entity or entities, professional Boyes Gigliotti Miller Stern employes who were assigned to the class or program immediately

Bm\w Gladgk Mu~dy Stetler orior to the transfer and are classified as teachers as defined~~~~ ~ in~~~ Bunt Godshall MUV~Y Slish ;r.cti,rn 1141(1, aurl arc ,uspcnded a> s rr.sult .,i~hr. Iran,fcr and Butkovitz Gordner Nailor strinmatter who are properly uert~ilc;~tzd,hall he .?Tir.rr..lr.nlpl.,ynir.nt in ~hr. Buxton Gmitz8 Nickol SMa program or class by the receiving entity or entities when services Wtapimne Gmppo N~ce Sum of a professional employe are needed to sustain the program or Cappsbianca Halush O'Brien Tanmi class transferred, as long as there is no suspended professional cm Harley O'Donoell Taylor, E. Z. employe in the receiving entity who is properly certificated to fill b Cawley Hasay Oliver Taylor, J. the position in the transferred class or program. The receiving C- Hennessey Penel Thomas entitv, however, shall not be required to hire a ~rofessional Chamvi~k He- Pesci Tigue emplove pursuant to this subsection whose personnel file, Civer Hemhey Petrooe Todinson including sealed portions thereof, is not made available to the Clark Hess Pettit receivina entity for inspection as a condition of hirina. Receiving Clv Hughes Phillips entities mav refuse to employ an individual who received at least Coheo. M. Itkin Piccola True two (2) unsatisfactory professional ratings during the thirty-six Colafella Jadlowiec PiStella Tulli (36) months* * prior to tho date of transfer. James Pins Uliaoa Jarolin Preston Vao Home Section 3. This act shall take effect as follows: losephs Raymond Veon (I) The amendment of section 687(a) of the act shall Kaiser Reba Vitali take effect in I5 days. Kaarnic RAoard Washington (2) ?he remainder of this act shall take effect Keller Richardson Waugh immediately. Kenney Rim William King Robelts Wogan On the question, Kirkland Robinson Womiak Will the House agree to the amendments? . . Krebs Rohrer Wriht. D. R Deal Kukovlch R-eY The SPEAKER pro tempore. On the amendment, the Chair D~YLaGrotta Rubley recognizes Mr. Smith. Donatu& Laub Rudy Druce Laughlin Ryan Mr. S. H. SMITH. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Durham Lawless Santoni Madam Speaker, this amendment has to do with the Egolf Ledem Sather transfer-of-entities issue, and essentially, I have brought this Evans Leb Saurmao before the House because of situation that Fairchild Lescovltz amendment a occurred where a receiving entity, a local school district, was being required, under the existing transfer-of-entities law, to Camne Lee Maitland Plans take a teacher back into the local school district from the IU Hanaa LNdsos!q Masland StRl (intermediate unit). Hutchinson Lynch Mayrrnik Vanse Now, that is what the existing transfer-of-entities section NOT VOTING-2 basically deals with. However, in this one situation that I became aware of, the schhol district was faced with a teacher Cohen. L. I. Roebuck that had a sealed portion in their record; they had the record and from the teacher's history of employment, hut there all - ~ was a sealed poltion, and the teacher- Acosta Olasz Petrarca Riegel ~ ~ Bush Mr. GORDNER. Madam Speaker? The SPEAKER pro tempore. For what purpose does the b gentleman, Mr. Gordner, rise? A majority of the members elected to the House having Mr. GORDNER. A point of information. voted in the affirmative, the question was determined in the The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman will state his affirmative the motion agreed to. and was mint. On the question recurring, Mr. GORDNER. I am confused, Madam Speaker, as to Will the House agree to the bill on third consideration as what amendment we are dealing with. I am looking at the amended? board and seeing 4952 or 9852. 1 think we are dealing with Mr. S. H. SMITH offered the following amendments No. amendment 5065, and if in fact we are dealing with that A5065: amendment, 1 do not believe that amendment has been * circulated. Amend Title, page 1, line 6, by removing the period after Mr. S. H. SMITH. That is correct. "budgets" and inserting LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman is colmect. We YEAS-197 are dealing with amendment 5065. ~dulph Farmer Lcyk ?mnnm Mr. GOKDNER. Okay. Madam Speaker, we are - getting - ,411~" Fee Lmsh saylor that amendment as I speak. Thank yo". Fichter Maitland Ssb& The SPEAKER pro lempore. The Chair thanks the Amstrong Fleagle Mandmino Sshuler Baker Flick Mdosek Snimeoti gentleman. Barley Pmmn Marsi~ Semwl Mr. Smith. Battido Gamble Masland Serafirti Mr. S. H. SMn'H. Thank you, Madam Speaker. G-O~ Mayemik Smith, B. Belad Geid McCall Smith, S. H. That is correct. I appreciate that correction. It is amendment Geome Mffieehao Snvder. D. W A5065. Bimelin GerlGh McNally stabsrk Rack to the problem at hand. Essentially, the school Bishop Gigliatli Melio Stairs district, upon being faced with taking in a teacher, receiving a Blaum Gladffik Merr~ Steel- Boyes Godshall Michlwis Sleigboer teacher from the KJ, they encountered a teacher who had a Bm Gordner Miccolje Steil sealed rccord as part of their permanent history, and that Bunt Omib Mihalicb Stem teacher refused to let that sealed record be made avdable to Butkovltz GNFP Miller Stdu the school board. To me that creates a significant problem, Buxtoo Haluska Mwdy Stish Caltagime Hanna Murphy sttiamanpr when you have a school board being required by law to take Cappabianca Hadey Nailor Shula a teacher that has sometlung that is of enough interest that it Cam H-Y Nick01 Suna was previously sealed. So this amendment ha. been drafled to Carooe Hmessey Nyce TmgWi allow the school district, the receiving entity, to see that entire Cawley Hem O'Brien Taylor, E. Z. Cessar Hahey O'Doonell Taylor, I. file, to see the personal file including the sealed portions. Chadwick Hess Oliver Thomas In addition, the teacher had two previous unsatisfactory Civera Hu%es Peael Tim professional ratings. In the normal course of events, a district Clark Hutchinson Pesci Tdiaaon Clymer Itkin Pdmne Trello can proceed to dismiss a teacher if they have two consecutive Coheo, M. ladlowiffi P&t Trish unprofessional ratings. Therefore, the amendment continues to Colafella J- Phillip Tme allow the receiving entity to refuse to hire that person, that Colaimo lmlin Piccola Tdli teacher, if in fact they had two previous unsatisfactory Cooti Jweph Pistclla Ulim Comell Kaiser Pi- van- professional ratings. comgao Kasunic Plstll Van Home I would appreciate the support of the membership on this Cowdl Kella &Iton vean amendment. COY Kenoey Raymond ViWi The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair thanks the cuny King Reber Wasbington Daley KirWand Rtimd waugh gentleman and recognizes Representative Cowell. DeLucs Krebs Richadson Willisms Mr. COWELL. Rank you, Madam Speaker. Dew Kukovlsh Riner wogan Madam Speaker, the transferuf-entity language in the Dent LmGmtta Robern Wwniak School Code deals with those circumstances where a school Dmdy Laub Robinson Wdght, D. R Donatucci hughlio Roebuck Wright, M. N. district may take back from an intermediate unit certain special Dmce Lawl- Rok YandrisRits education programs, and the transfer-of-entity language speaks Durham Lederer Rmney Ynucic to the obligations on the part of such a school district to Egolf Lee Rubley zw employ or give first consideration for employment to those Ems ~ch Rudy Fairchild LesMvlL7 Ryan previous IU employees who are displaced when the program Fajt Levdaoslty Saotoni is taken back by the school district. Fargo Lloyd Sather Representative Smith offers a useful amendment to that NAYS-O language currently in the law. His language clarifies those circumstances under which a school district will be obligated NOT VOTING-I to take back such an employee. I think that his amendment acts in the interest of the school district, and most importantly, it protects the interests of the school children who are in special education programs. So I urge that we approve his amcndment. The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair thanks the gentleman. On the question recurring, The question was determined in the affirmative, and the Will the House agree to the amendments? amendments were agreed to. 'lhe following roll call was recorded: On the question pcurring, Will the House agree to the bill on third consideration as amended? 2354 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE DECEMBER 15 Mr. JAROLIN offered the following amendments No. I SPEAKER pro tempore ih chair thanks the A5066: gentleman and recognizes Mr. Cowell. Mr. COWELL. hank you, Madam Speaker. Amend Title, page 1, line 6, by removing the period after I* "budgets" and inserting Madam Speaker, as Representative Jarolin indicated, his and for transferred programs and classes. amendment also deals with the transfer-of-entity language in Amend Bill, page 4, line 11, by striking out all of said line the current law. That language was put into the law a couple and inserting Section 2. Section 1113(b.l) of the act, amended August 5, of years ago to try to protect school employees who were 1991 (P.L.219, No.25), is amended to read: working for school districts and who were, through no fault of Section 11 13. Transferred Programs and Classes.-* * * their own, displaced when schwl districts took back special (b.1) Professional employes who are classified as teachers education programs. I think this Genera Assembly very and who are not transferred with the classes to which they are assigned or who have received a formal notice of suspension shall appropriately provided some prdection to those employees and fonn a pool of employes within the school entity. No new guaranteed them some first rights to jobs that would be created t professional employe who is classified as a teacher shall be in school districts when school districts would take back these employed by a school entity assuming program responsibility for transferred students while there is: programs. (I) a properly certificated professional employe who is But I also believe over the last couple of yeas we have classified as a teacher suspended in the receiving entity; or learned that there are some abuses occurring, and there (2) if no person is qualified under clause (I), a properly continues to be the potential for some abuse in this system. certificated member of the school entity pool who is willing to accept employment with the school entity assuming program There is no reason why a school district should be made to be responsibility for transferred students. Members of the pool shall obligated to a person who, yes, was displaced but then have the right to refuse employment offers from such school entity subsequently moved to the other end of the country. I do not and remain in the pool[.]; Provided. however. That the pool member shall not remain in the pool after three refusals of such think somebody sitting out in California ought to be able to employment offers and provided further that any peal member call back to Pennsylvania and say, 1 still have a right to a job who changes residency from this Commonwealth to another in that school district. residency shall be removed from the pool. Refusal to accept work Secondly, I do not think that the employee whom we were under this subsection shall not be grounds for denial of unemployment compensation under sections 401 and 402 of the trying to protect should be allowed, in some gross way, to act of December 5, 1936 (2nd Sp.Sess., 1937 P.L.2897, No.l), shop around and to decline job offer after job offer after job known as the "Unemployment Compensation Law." *** offer. So Representative Jarolin's amendment very Section 3. This act shall take effect as follows: appropriately says you cannot tum down more than three of (I) The amendment of section 687(a) of the act shall these offers without losing the right that you had to one of take effect in I5 days. those positions. (2) The remainder of this act shall take effect 1 think that there are some other issues that we will need immediately. to address in the transfer-of-entity law as well. I hope that On the question, there will continue to be some discussions about these issues, Will the House agree to the amendments? but in the meantime, I think that the amendment before us is helpful, I think it is very positive, and l would urge that we The SPEAKER pro tempore. On the amendment, the Chair approve it. recognizes Mr. Jarolin. The SPEAKER pro tempore. ?'he Chair thanks the Mr. JAROLIN. Thank you, Madam Speaker. gentleman and recognizs Mr. Battisto. Madam Speaker, this is a similar situation that had occurred Mr. BATI'IS'TO. Thank you, Madam Speaker. with the intermediate units. What this is, is a teacher that Madam Speaker, I urge the adoption of the amendment. happens to refuse employment at one particular time that has Thank you very much. been in the pool, if they refuse three consecutive times, 'The SPEAKER pro tempore. 'The Chair thanks the automatically they will not be allowed to be in that pool gentleman. anymore. So that would give the prerogative for somebody else to get a good position. On the question recurring, ..I What has been happening is, some of the people that were Will the House agree to the amendments? in a pool would be waiting for one of the higher priority jobs 'The following roll call was recorded: and they refuse one, two, maybe three, maybe as much as four jobs before they take the one that met their demands and met their satisfaction. So this particular amendment deals with that Adolph Fanner Lucyk Saurmao PaJticular situation. Allen Fee Lynch Saylor It also deals with members who leave Pennsylvania and Argall Fichler Maitland Scb& Armstrong Fleaglr Manderino Schuler pick up a residency in another State. After a celtain period of Baker Flick Markosek Scrimenti time, they are not allowed to come hack and bid on the jobs in Badey Freemao Marsica Semmel the Pennsylvania school system. Baltisto Gamble Masland Serafini I urge a positive vote on this. Thank you. Bebko-Jooes Gannoo Mayemik Smith. B. Belardi Gerst McCall Smith, S. H. 1993 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE 2355

Belfanli George McCeehan Snyder, D. W. The SPEAKER pro tempore. This bill has been wmidered Bimvlin Gedach McNally Staback on three different days and agreed to and is now on final Bishop Giglidti Melio Stairs Blaurn Gladeck Mew Steelman passage. Boyes Godshall Michlovlo Steighner The question is, shall the bill pass finally? ~rowo Gordner Micwzie Steil Agreeable to the provisions of the Constitution, the yeas Bunt Gnritza Mihalich Stem and nays will now be taken. Butkmilz GwFP Miller SMler Buxlon Haluska Mundy Stish YEAS-195 Caltagimne Haona Murphy ~trittmauer Cappabianca Harley Nailor Sturla Adolph Fee Lynch Sam Cam Hasay Nickol Sum Alleo Fichler Maitland Saylor Camne Heonrssey Nyce Tangretti Argall Flea& Maodedno Schglz Cawley Herman O'Bden Taylor, E. Z. Amdrong Flick Markosek Schder Cessar Hershey O'Donnell Taylor. J. Baker Free- Marsico Scrimenti Cbadwick Hess Oliver 'no"m.5 Badey Gade Madaod Srrnmel Civera Hughes Petzel Tigue Ballisto Ganoon Maywik Sdni Clark Hutchinson Pesci Tomlinsoo Bebko-Jooes Geist McCall Smith, B. ClYrner llkin Petmne Trella Belardi George Mffieehan Smith. S. H. Cohen, M. ladlowis Petlit Trich Bimlio Gerlach McNally Soyder, D. W. Colafella James Phillips True Bishop Ciglioni Melio S&ck Colain*, Iamlin Piccola Tulli Blaum Gladeck MW Stairs Conti Josephs Pistella Uliana Boyes Godshall Michlovlc Steelman Comell Kaiser ~itts Vance Brown Gordoer Mide Stnghoer Corigan Kasunic Platls Van Home Bunt Gndh Mibalish Steil Cowell Keller Preston Veon Bulkovltz GWW Miller Stem COY Kenney Raymond Vitali Buxton Haluska Muody Stder CuW King Rrbor Washingloo Caltagimne Ham Murphy Stish Daley KirWaod Kknard Wsugh Cappabianca Harley Nailor StdUmatter DeLucs Krebs Richardson Williams Cam Hasay Nickol SMa Dempsey Kukovlch in- Wogan Carone Henoessey N~ce Surra Dent laCrolta Robefis Womiak Cawley Herman O'Brieo Tan& Dermody Laub Robinsoo Wright, D. R Cessar Hershey O'Donnell Taylor, E. Z. Donatucci Laughlin Roebuck Wright, M. N. Chadwick Hes Oliver Taylor, I. Dmce Lawless Rohm Yandnswits Civera Hughes Penel 'Aomas Durham Loderer Rooney Yewcic Clark Hutchinm PeG Tigue Egolf Lee Rubley zug Clymer ltkin Petmne Todinson Evans Leh Rudy Coben, M. Jadlowiec Pail Trello Fairchild Lessovllz Ryan DeWeese, Colafella James Phillip Trich Fajt Levdansky Santmi Speaker Colaim Jamlia Piccola True Fargo Lloyd Sather Conti Josephs Pistella Tulli Cornell Kaiser Pitts Uliaoa NAYS-0 Conigan Kasunic Plails Vanss Cowell Keller Preston Van Home NOT VOTING-I COY Kenoey Raymond Veon Cohen, L. I. curry Kiog Reber Vitali Daley Kirkland Reinird Wssbiofion EXCUSED-5 DeLusa Krebr Richardson Wau& Dem~sq, Kukwich Ritter Williams Amsia Olas. Pelarca Rieger Dent LaGmtta Rchis wogan Bush Dedy hub Robinson Wmiak Donatucci Laughlin Roebuck Wright, D. R D~ce Lawless Rohrer Wright. M. N. The question was determined in the affirmative, and the Dudam ~aderer Rmey Yandrisevits amendments were agreed to. Egolf Leh Rubley Y~veic Evans Lescwitz Rudy ZuE Fsirchild Lwdansky Ryan LEAVE OF ABSENCE Fajt Lloyd Santoni DeWeese. Falgo Lucyk Sather Speaker The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair recognizes Farmer Kepresentative Perzel, who asks that Mrs. Lita COHEN be NAYS-I placed on leave for the remainder of the day. Lee CONSIDERATION OF HB 398 CONTINUED 1 NOT VOTING-I On the question recurring, Belfanti Will the House agree to the hill on third consideration as EXCUSED-6 amended? Bill as amended was agreed to. Aeosta Cohen, L. I. Petma Rieger Bush Olasz LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE DECEMBER 15

The majority required by the Constitution having voted in Now, obviously, that cannot be accomplished in a the affirmative, the question was determined in the affirmative timeframe of a few minutes or a few hours. Consequently, and the bill passed finally. what I am going to suggest or request that we do now is to Ordered, That the clerk present the same to the Senate for place HB I85 on the postponed calendar so that we can meet \ concurrence. in the interim, when we are in recess, and try to come up with amendments to HB 185 that most of us can support. CONSIDERATION OF HB 185 CONTINUED Thal being my intention, I now move that HB 185 be placed on the postponed calendar, Mr. Speaker. On the question recurring, The SPEAKER. The gentleman is moving to place it on the Will the House concur in Senate amendments as amended? postponed calendar? Mr. WILLIAMS offered the following amendments No. Mr. ITKIN. Yes. A4827: On the question, b Amend Sec. 1 (Sec. 6120). page 14, line 23, by inserting brackets before and after "NO and inserting immediately Will the House agree to the motion? thereafter~~-~~. Except as provided in subsection (a.1). no The SPEAKER Does the gentleman, Mr. Ryan, rise and Amend Sec. 1 (Sec. 6120), page 14. by inserting behveen seek recognition? lines 28 and 29 Mr. RYAN. Yes, I do. The SPEAKER The gentleman is recognized. 11 I cxceur as urovided in paranrauh (2). this section shall not apply to cities of the first and second class. 1 Mr. RYAN. Mr. Speaker, I spoke to the majority leader (2) Reaulations of cities of the first and second class and the majority leader's staff assistant off and on over the past shall not urohibit a nonresident of the city from carrying a hour with respect to just what is taking place now, and at one disassembled fueam. time earlier today - I am going to say it was, give or take an On the question, hour, sometime around noon or 11 o'clock this morning - we Will the House agree to the amendments? suggested doing this very thing. In fact, as I recall, I maybe even made the motion with some suggestions that we form a special committee. Had we known that we were going to have THE SPEAKER (H. WILLIAM DeWEESE) cooperation on it, between that time and this, we could have PRESIDING put together the type resolution that I think we would close this AMENDMENTS WITHDRAWN TEMPORARILY session with, which would be positive, have representatives of perhaps our Fish and Game Committees, our Judiciiuy The SPEAKER The gentleman, Mr. Williams, is Committees, and maybe some other appropriate committees recognized. The gentleman may proceed. form an ad hoc committee, either formally or informally, for Mr. WILLIAMS. Mr. Speaker, I would ask for a moment. the purpose set forth by the gentleman. The SPEAKER The gentleman yields momentarily. But no, that was not the case. Members of the Black Mr. WILLIAMS. Mr. Speaker, I withdraw that amendment Caucus were particularly vocal on the idea that we should temporarily. move forward, resisting, Mr. Speaker, if you will, some of our The SPEAKER Does the gentleman, Mr. Williams, yield suggestions. One of mine would have kept the Philadelphia to the gentleman, Mr. Itkin? The gentleman indicates that he ordinances intact, and yet, they wanted to do away with that is does. what it seemed to me, although I am sure that was not their underlying intent; I have my own ideas on that. But 1 then here MOTION TO PLACE BILL ON an hour or so ago said that there are certain amendments that POSTPONED CALENDAR are im~ortant to me: there are certain amendments that are The SPEAKER. The gentleman, Mr. Itkin, is recognized. important to members of this caucus, and that I was prepared Mr. ITKIN. Mr. Speaker, the aflemoon is moving along to stay here today to offer these amendments. I just asked a staff person if my amendments were and soon it will be evening. I am trying to find a way of are- dealing with this issue that can be constructive, a way that prepared. I do not know if they I see an affirmative nod of the head that these amendments are on their way down now involves pmponenls of HB 185, or people who are concerned abwt the rights of hunters, and at the same time deals with the fmm Reference Bureau. The representative of Reference concerns of the people in urban areas who find these weapons Bureau, I think, has just advised us that they are available. I to be weapons of destruction in the hands of criminals. want them voted, and I am going to resist, I am going to resist I have talked in the interim with a number of members on adjournment now until we have voted those amendments, and both sides of the aisle, and I have committed myself to work let me tell you what they do, because I think you are entitled with representatives who support and oppose the legislation, to know what they do. They essentially are amendments that including, including, representatives of the National Rifle are duplicative in part of the Michlovic amendments in that Association, to see if we can come up with a bill that will they ban certain of the weapons that are found to be frightful serve Pennsylvania well. to some of the c~tizensof Pennsylvania, but by the same token, 1993 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE 2357

they are weapons that are used for legitimate purposes by the So I would implore the members of the House who want to sports lovers of Pennsylvania, the sports people of actually resolve this issue. Pennsylvania - the target shooters, the marksmen. There is no Now, there are certain people who perhaps do not want to onerous burden placcd on them. resolve this issue. Well, they can vote however they want to We maintain and continue something that is not in the law vote. But for those of us who are sincere about resolving this today through these amendments. We have a 5-day waiting issue, I would suggest, not only suggest, I would urge you at period. We have a criminal check, something that is not in this time to vote to postpone so that we can cany out the Pennsylvania law today, before the purchase of any of these process duing the recess. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. guns that remain on the banned list. Anybody that has a need Mr. RYAN. Mr. Speaker? for a weapon or presently owns a weapon that would be on the The SPEAKER. Mr. Ryan is recognized. banned list would have to register it. Mr. RYAN. You know, this is really ridiculous. The I thnk the members of this tlouse deserve the opportunity majority leader is talking about us seeking some modicum of to vote on an amendment such as that before they take off for advantage. What he is really saying without wording it is, the Christmas holidays. Michlovic lost his amendment, we look like fools, and we are That having been said, I am going to do one of two things: not going to give you the oppodty to improve tbe law of I am going to suggest to the Speaker of the House that if I am Pennsylvania with respect to weaponry. right and the members think that an amendment such as this be I maybe missed saying Urban Affairs Committee. 1 am made available and offered to the membership, that they vote sorry. Please forgive me. I.et us make it Game and Fisheries, "no" on the mqiority leader's motion, and secondly, that this Judiciary, and Urban Affairs. 1 apologize for that. I did not amendment be given a special order of business. thmk of it. We can put any committees that want to be The SPEAKER. Does the gentleman, Mr. Itkin, seek represented on it. I think rather we could also add W recog~tionfor a second time? The gentleman is in order and Govemment, because let me tell you, local governments may proceed. throughout this Commonwealth are concerned with law and Mr. ITKIN. Mr. Speaker, it would seem to me foolhardy order as well as people fmm the urban areas of Pennsylvania, and a waste of time to go ahead and to try to insert an everyone in this State. This is not a city pmblem; this is a amendment that was just created spontaneously, without much State problem, and the problem is not just guns and the misuse thought, and then say, well, let us consider this amendment, of guns; it is also the proper use of guns and the abuse of our and then after we consider this amendment, then we will authority in the regulation of firearms. postpone action on the bill and think about what we want to I think that if we are going to leave a good impression in do. 'Ihat seems like a useless approach. 1 mean, right now the the hearts and souls of the people of this Commonwealth, we bill is clean. Right now the bill only has the Godshall should give them sometlung besides what we have done so far, amendment, which was his attempt to try to take FIB I85 and and 1 am suggesting to you that my amendment is a good start. make it palatable to this Ilouse. It is something that goes not as far, perhaps in your mind as So right now we basically have a clean IIB 185 without the Michlovic amendment; in other ways it goes Werand it bias, and now the minority leader says, I want to bias this is more encompassing and protective than Michlovic, and in particular hill by putting something in it, by placing something other ways it is giving the sportsperson and the legitimate gun in it that will turn the bill one way or the other. In my user a lot more pmtection than did Michlovic. It gives them judgment, if we are going to be honest and sincere and say we something that they did not have under Michlovic, and I think are all going to come to the table without bias, in an equitable it is worthwhile. way, fair, and say, okay, wc got a problem - we got a Once again, we are prepared to stay, and if you want to problem in Philadelphia; we got a problem in Pittsburgh; we keep going, I believe we are prepared to stay to do that, too. got a problem in our urban communities - and I am surprised, Thank you. MI. speaker, that you would say that this bill should palticularly go into Game and Fisheries. This is an urban On the question recurring, Will the House agree to the motion? problem; you did not mention Urban Affairs. This is a preemptive pmhlem; you did not mention Local Govemment. (Members proceeded to vote.) So there are a lot of other committees that feel that they should have responsibility or involvement in this particular issue. Mr. ITKIN. Mr. Speaker, would you cancel the vote, I think it would be prudent for us at this time not to try to please? get a modicum of advantage but to approach this issue There was somebody that wanted to be recognized before forthnght and set the stage for some good conversation where the vote and he did not get an opportunity to get the attention we do not walk into the meetings saying that we have now a of the Chair. decided advantage or a decided dsadvantage, because there is Mr. RYAN. Mr. Speaker, there is nothing in order but the nothng here. 1 mean, HB 185 is what it is. Nothing has taking of the vote. changed very substantially except for the Godshall amendment. On the question recurring, Will the House agree to the motion? 2358 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE DECEMBER 15

The SPEAKER Camera crews should be instructed that it EXCUSED-6 is absolutely improper to film the bard. If one is seen filming Acosta Cohen, L. I. Petrama Rieger the bard, one will not be invited back, period. Bush OISSZ b On the question recurring, Will the House agree to the motion? The question was determined in the negative, and the motion was not agreed to. The following roll call was recorded: On the question retuning, YEAS-66 Will the House concur in Senate amendments as amended? Battila0 Donatucci lsughlin Ritter Bebko-Jonas Evans Ladem Rcbinson The SPEAKER Does the gentleman, Mr. Itkin, seek Beld Fsjt Lwdsnsky Roebuck recognition on an additional motion or amendment? Bishop Fee Lucyk Rmoey t We going to housekeeping the leaders Blaum F~eeman Manderioo Santoni are do some as B~kGordoer Mayemik Saurman confer. B"xlm Gndtza McOeehan StRgher Csltagimoe Haluska Melio Surra BILLS SIGNED BY SPEAKER Cappahama Hughes Michlovic Thomas Carn ltloa Mihalich Tips The Chair gave notice that he was about to sign the Camne lames Mundy Van Home Cawley ~osephs Murphy Vma following hills, which were then signed: Cohen, M. Kaisa O'Donnell Washington Colafelln Keller Oliver Williams BB 437, PN 1881 Cowell Kirklad Pislella An Act amending the act of July 7, 1947 (P.L.1368, No.542). CW Kvkmicb Pmloo Dew=% MY Ricbardsoo Speaker known as the Real Estate Tax Sale Law, further providing for the LsGmtta entry, extension and discharge of tax claims; and making repeals. NAYS-130 HB 659, PN 2958 Adolph Nick Masland SBafini Allen Gamble McCall Smith, B. An Act amending the act of July 28. 1953 (P.L.123, No.230). Ad1 Gwon McNally Smith. S. H. known as the Second Class County Code, further providing for the Arm*rong Geir* men^ Snydn; D. W. jurisdiction of the coroner; providing authorization to certain Baker George Mi-e Staback counties and cities for creation of the Allegheny Regional Asset W G~lach Miller Stairs District as a special purpose areawide unit of local government; Belfinti Gladeck Nailor Steel- creating a governing board for the district; authorizing the district Bidin Godsball Nickol Steil to finance and support civic, recreational, library, sports and other Boyg GNPP~ NP stern regional assets; empowering the district to issue bonds and notes; Brown Hama O'Bnen Wler authorizing the district to enter into intergovernmental cooperation Bunt Harley Penel Stish agreements regarding regional assets; authorizing the imposition Cesslr Hasay Pnci StrinmaDer of an additional tax on the sale and use of tangible personal CMck HV Pet- &Is property and services; creating a fund, providing for use of the Civera Hem Pemt Tangr-i revenues generated by the additional tax; providing for reduction Clark Hershey Phillips Taylor, E. Z. of local taxes; and making a repeal. Clym0r Hess Piccola Taylor, 1. Cdaino Hutcbiasoo Pitts Tomliosoa BB 1432, PN 2282 Coati Jadlowiec Plans Trello Cornell Jarolio Raymond Trich An Act amending Title 23 (Domestic Relations) of the Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes. further providing for Comgan Kssunic RebR True Reinard Tulli application for license and for restrictions on the issuance of a COY Kemey marriage license. D~w King Robnts Ulisoa DeLuu Krebs Roh Vance 1512, PN 2262 DemP‘? Laub Rubley Viteli Dmt Lawless Rudy waugh An Act reenacting the act of July 9, 1984 (P.L.676, No.145), Druce Lee Ryan Wogao entitled "An act establishing within the Pennsylvania Higher hhm Leh Satber Wcrmiak Education Assistance Agency Regional Computer Resource Egolf Lescovitz Ssylor Wright, D. R Centers and Regional Computer Resource Center boards." Pairshild Lloyd Scheetz Wright, M. N. FWO Lynch Schuler YaodriPeMts HB 2091, PN 2893 Famw Maitlaod knmeoti Yewcic Fichter Markosek Semmel ZUP An Act amending the act of October 4, 1978 (P. L. 876, No. Pleagle Msrsico 169), known as the Pennsylvania Crime Commission Act, abolishing the act; further providing for the powers and duties of NOT VOTING-1 the Pennsylvania Crime Commission; providing for transition; and Giglioni making an appropriation. t 1993 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE 2359

B. SMITH, NAILOR, ALLEN, MARSICO, STERN, HENNESSEY and BUNT An Act amending the act of December 20, 1982 (P. L. 1442, No. 327), entitled "State Capitol Preservation Act," enlarging the An Act amending Title 34 (Game) of the Pemsylvania scope of the act; and further providing for the Capitol Restoration Consolidated Statutes. further providing for license revocation. Trust Fund and operating expenses af the Capitol Preservation Committoo. Referred to Committee on GAME AND FISHERIES, December 15, 1993.

An Act amending Titles 74 (Transportation) and 75 (Vehicles) No. 2386 By Representatives PHILLIPS, BELFM, of tho Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes, further providing for GEIST, ARMSTRONG, PEm, KREBS, ARGALL, utilization of public transportation assistance funding and for community transportetion programs and other programs; and FARMER, SAUMAN, MAmAND, SAmRand further providing for persons authorized ta dircct traffic. EGOLF An Act repealing the act of June 17, 1913 (P.L.507, N0.335). HOUSE BILLS entitled "An act to provide revenue for State and county purposes, INTRODUCED AND REFERRED and, in cities coextensive with counties. for city and county purposes; imposing taxes upon certain classes of personal No. 2381 By Representatives COLAFELLA, properly; providing for the assessment and collection of the same; MICOZZIE, KEINAKD and COLAIZZO providing for the duties and compensation of prothonotaries and recorders in co~ectiontherewith; and modifying existing ~~t amending ~itl~40 (insurance) of the pennsylvania legislation which provided for raising revenue for State purposes." Consolidated Statutes, providing for fa~rcompetition. Referred to Committee on FINANCE, December 15, 1993. Referred to Committee on INSUKANCE, December 15, 1993. No. 2387 By Representatives DENT, HASAY, DEMPSEY, CHADWICK, CLARK, SCHULER, FAJT, No. 2382 By Representatives KEINARD, MICOZZIE, HANNA, ARGALL, TIGUE, MASLAND, EGOLF, DRUCE COLAFELLA and COLAIZZO and CONn An Act amending the act of June 5, 1968 (P.L.140, Na.78). An Act amending the act of June 3, 1937 (P.L.1333,No.320), entitled "An act regulating the writing, cancellation of or refusal known as the Pemsylvania Election Code, regulating campaign to renew policies of automobile insurance; and imposing powers financing. and duties on the Insurance Commissioner therefor," further providing for noncancellation of insurance. Refernd to Committee on STATE GOVERNMENT, December 15. 1993. Referred to Committee on INSUKANCE, December 15, 1993. No. 2388 Bv Reoresentatives ARMSTRONG. SCHULER, HERSHEY, STABACK, ' No. 2383 By Kepresentat~ves KEINARD. MICOZZIE, HALUS&, SEMMEL, TRELLO, CARONE, CAWLEY, STERN, COLAFELLA and COLAIZZO IUKKLAND and MILLER An Act amending the act of July 3. 1986 (P.L.396. No.86). entitled "An act requiring notice of rate increases, policy cancella- An Act amending the act of June 10, 1982 (P.L.454, No.133). tions and nonrenewals by property and casualty insurers," further entitled "An act protecting agricultural operations from nuisance providing for grounds for cancellation or nonrenewal of certain suits and ordinances under certain circumstances," providing for insurance notice to potential purchasers of adjoining landownerb right to engage in agricultural activities. Referred to Committee on INSUKANCE, December 15, Referred to Committee on AGRICULTURE ANDRURAL 1993. AFFAIRS, December 15, 1993. No. 2384 By Representatives MINARD, MICOZZIE, No. 2389 By Representatives ROONEY, COLAFELLA and COLALZZO TRELLD, VEON, SEMMEL, ROBERTS, COLAIZZO, An Act amending the act of July 22, 1974 (P.I,.589, No.205), DeLUCA, HARLEY, MASLAND and STEELMAN known as the Unfair Insurance Practices Act, further providing for unrair or deceptive acts or practices. An Act providing for reform of health care malpractice arbitration; further providing for the Office of Administrator for Keferred to Committee on INSURANCE, December 15, Health Care Arbitration Panels, for operation of health care 1993. arbitration panels and for judicial review; and making repeals. Keferred to Committee on JUDICIARY, December 15, No. 2385 By Kcpresentatives PHILLIPS, BELFANI'I, 1993. GEIST, LYNCH, BAKEK, CESSAR, LAUB, AKMSTKONG, TKELLO, MAITLAND, COLAIZZO, f1ANN.4, JAKOLIN, MEW, FARGO, CLARK, I - -

LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE DECEMBER 15

No. 2390 By Representatives ROONEY, SAYLOR, HENNESSEY, BUNT, GEIST, TOMLINSON, SURRA, MIHALICH, TRELLO, JOSEPHS, SCRIMENTI, VEON, FREEMAN, BELFANII, KING, VEON, BATTISTO, SAYLOR, CLARK, PLA'ITS, SAIJRMAN, DRUCE, SEMMEL, COY, GEIST, COLAIZZO, DeLUCA, OLASZ 't and STURLA DALEY, NICKOL, MERRY, GORDNER, HUTCHINSON, ROONEY, FAJT, HARLEY, GERLACH, RAYMOND, An Act providing for viatical settlements and far powers and MICOZZIE and E. %. TAYLOR duties of the Insurance Department. An Act amending Title 42 (Judic~aryand Judicial Procedure) Referred to Committee on INSURANCE, December 15, of the Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes, further providing for 1993. the dispositian of delinquent children. Referred to Committee on AGING AND YOUTH, Decem- No. 2391 By Representatives STRlTI'MATTER, ber 15, 1993. STURLA, SCHIJLER, TRUE, BARLEY, SCHEETZ, t ARMSTRONG, IIERSHEY, ARGALL, FAIRCHILD, No. 2394 By Representatives SI'RITI'MATTER, DEMPSEY, DeLUCA, COY, PI'ITS, WAUGH, KENNEY, STURLA, BARLEY, HERSHEY, SCHULER, SCHEETZ, SEMMEL, FARMER, CESSAR, BUXTON, CARONE, TRUE, ARMSTRONG, KENNEY, FAIRCHILD, MARKOSEK, MANDERINO. M. N. WRIGHT, CLYMER, DEMPSEY, DeLUCA, COY, SEMMEI,, FARMER, NYCE, TOMLINSON, SURRA, BELFANTI, KING, CESSAR, BUXTON, CARONE, MANDERINO, PHILLLPS, PHILLIPS, VANCE, PETTlT, HERMAN, HENNESSEY, VANCE, HENNESSEY, BUNT, GEIST, TOMLINSON, BUNT, GEIST, FREEMAN, VEON, BATITSrO, WOGAN, VEON, BATIISTO, BELFANTI, KING, SAYLOR, SAYLOR, KREBS, CLARK, PLA'ITS, SAURMAN, CLARK, PI,A'ITS, SAIJRMAN, DRUCE, DALEY, DRUCE, DALEY, NICKOL, MERRY, GORDNER, NICKOI,, MERRY, GORDNER, HUTCHINSON, HUTCHINSON, ROONEY, FAJT, HARLEY, GERLACH, ROONEY, FAJT, HARLEY, GERLACH, RAYMOND, RAYMOND, MICOZZIE and E. Z. TAYLOR MICOZZE and E. Z. TAYLOR

An Act establishing a motivational boot camp program for An Act making an appropriation to the Juvenile Court Judges' juvenile offenders; imposing powers and duties on the Department Commission. of Public Welfare and the Department of Health; and making an appropriation. Referred to Committee on APPROPRIATIONS, Decem- Referred to Committee on AGING AND YOUTH, Decem- ber 15, 1993. ber 15, 1993. No. 2395 By Representatives DALEY, PISTEI.LA, No. 2392 By Representatives STRITIUATER, CESSAR, KASUNIC, FAIRCHILD, HUTCHINSON, STURLA, SCHULER, TRUE, BARLEY, SCHEETZ, RAYMONI), COLAFELLA, LAWLESS, THOMAS, ARMSTRONG. HERSHEY, ARGALL, FAIRCHILD, ULIANA, STISH, ITKIN and BOYES DEMPSEY, DeLUCA, COY, PlTTS, WAUGH, KENNEY, An Act amending Title 24 (Education) of the Pennsylvania SEMMEL, FARMER, CESSAR, BUXTON, CARONE, Consolidated Statutes. further providing for creditable nonschool MARKOSEK, MANDERINO, M. N. WRIGHT, CLYMER, service. NYCE, TOMLINSON, SURRA, BELFANTI, KING, Referred to Committee on EDUCATION, December 15, PHILLIPS, VANCE, PETm, HERMAN, HENNESSEY, 1993. BUNT, GEIST, FREEMAN, VEON, BAlTISTO, WOGAN, SAYLOR, KREBS, CLARK, PLA'ITS, SAURMAN, No. 2396 By Representatives EVANS, PI171'S, DRUCE, DALEY, NICKOL, MERRY, GORDNER, DeWEESE, ITKIN, VEON, M. COHEN, COY, HUTCHINSON, ROONEY, FAJT, HARLEY, GERLACH, S'I'EIGHNER, BELARDI, TRICH, PISTELLA, RAYMOND, MICOZZIE and E. Z. TAYLOR VAN HORNE, KUKOVICH, COLAIZZO. LAUB, An Act amending Title 42 (Judiciary and Judicial I'rocedure) GORDNER, McNALLY, McCALL, I'ANGRETII, w of the Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes, authorizing disposition LaGROnA, JOSEPHS, WOZNIAK, BATITSTO, MUNDY, of delinquent child to motivational boot camps and aftercare PESCI, STISH, CAL'fAGIRONE, FARMER, FAJT, programs. JAROLIN, PRESTON, HANNA, ARGALL, STURLA, Referred to Committee on AGING AND YOUTH, Decem- FARGO, RIEGER, TIGUE, CORRIGAN, GERLACH, ber 15, 1993. FREEMAN, ROONEY, CARN, BEI,FANTI, MELIO, FLICK, KENNEY, YEWCIC, MANDERINO, STABACK, No. 2393 By Representatives S'I'RITTMA'ITER, CURRY, SUW, DERMODY, WILLIAMS, JAMES and STURLA, SCHULER, ARMSTRONG, TRUE, BARLEY, COLAFELLA HERSHEY, SCHEETZ, PlTTS, FAIRCHILD. DEMPSEY, - An Act requiring executive agencies to prepare and submit DeLUCA, COY, KENNEY, SEMMEL, FARMER, strategic plans, performance plans and performance reports; and CESSAR, BUXTON, CARONE, PHILLIPS, VANCE, 1993 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE 2361

imposing additional powers and dutles on the Office of the An Act providing for legislative initiative grants; and imposing Budget. I penalties. Referred to Committee on APPROPRIA'ITONS, Decem- Referred to Committee on APPROPRIATIONS, Decem- ber 15, 1993. ber 15, 1993.

No. 2397 By Representatives EVANS, MIHALICH, No. 2401 By Representatives SCHULER, CESSAR, LaCROTTA, PESCI, ROBINSON, CALTAGIRONE, LAUB, ARMSTRONG, KREBS, TRELU), FICHTER, M. COHEN, MANDERINO, RAYMOND, KUKOVICH, SAYLOR, NICKOL, JAROLIN, SATHER, MERRY, ARGALL, STURLA, JOSEPHS, MELIO, JAROLIN, FAIT, FARGO, HASAY, PUTS, CONTI, GEIST, BARLEY, PRESTON, CORRIGAN, BA'lTISTO, CESSAR, TRUE, LEH, HESS, BELFANTI, FARMER, HENNESSEY, MASLAND, GAMBLE, McCALL, BELFANTI, HANNA, STEKN, TOMLINSON, L. 1. COHEN, FLICK and CIVERA MUNDY, PISTELLA, COY, STABACK, DERMODY, An Act amending the act of June 17, 1913 (P.L.507, No.335). SIEELMAN, IIALEY and WILLIAMS referred to as the Intangible Personal Property Tax Law, excluding from the tax loans behveen parents and children; and further An Act amending the act of November 22, 1978 (P.L.1166, providing for the due date of the tax. No.274). referred to as the Pennsylvania Commission on Crime and Delinquency Law, further providing for powers and duties of Referred to Committee on FINANCE, December 15, 1993. the Pennsylvania Commission on Crime and Delinquency. Referred to Committee on JUDICIARY, December 15, No. 2402 By Representatives DERMODY, TREH and 1993. VEON An Act amending Title 15 (Corporations and Unincorporated No. 2398 Bv Uenresentatives EVANS. MIHALICH. Associations) of the Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes, further LaGROI-TA, PE~CI,LAUB, ROBINSON, providing for taxation of business trusts. CALTAGIRONE, M. COHEN, MANDERINO, RAYMOND, FARMER, STURLA, JOSEPHS, MELIO, Refened to Committee on BUSINESS AND ECONOMIC JAROLIN, FAJT, HANNA, PRESTON, CORRIGAN, DEVELOPMENT, December 15, 1993. BATTISTO, CESSAR, MASLAND, GAMBLE, McCALL, BELFANTI, MUNDY, PISIELLA, COY, STABACK, No. 2403 By Representative DeWEESE SURRA, DERMODY, STEELMAN and DALEY An Act amending Title 30 (Fish) of the Pennsylvania Consoli- dated Statutes, providing for the imposition of pollution abatement An Act amending the act of December 19, 1990 (P.L.1391. surcharges on licenses and permits. No.Z15), known as the Motivational Boot Camp Act, further defining "eligible inmate." Referred to Committee on GAME AND FISHERIES, Referred to Committee on JUDICIARY, December 15, December IS, 1993. 1993. No. 2404 By Representative DeWEESE No. 2399 By Representatives BATITSTO, FAJT, An Act amending Title 34 (Game) of the Pennsylvania NICKOL, VEON, COY, HUTCHINSON, GORDNER, Consolidated Statutes, providing for the imposition of pollution 11GUE. COLAIZZO, VAN HORNE, LAUB, MELIO, abatement surcharges on licenses and permits. YANDRISEVITS, HENNESSEY, PRESTON, BELFANTI, Referred to Committee on GAME AND FISHERIES, NYCE, STURLA, MERRY and COLAFELLA December 15, 1993. An Act amending the act of March 4. 1971 (P.L.6, Na.2), known as the Tax Reform Code of 1971, further providing for No. 2405 By Representatives MELIO, GEORGE, State determination and redetermination of real estate transfer tax COLAIZZO, COY, HENNESSEY, DeLUCA, TANGRETIT, to extend to municipalities and school districts. YANDRISEVITS, LAUGHLIN, GIGLIOlTl, BEBKO- Referred to Committee on FINANCE, December 15, 1993. JONES, TOMLINSON, M. N. WRIGHT, SEE, CONTI, MICOZZIE and DALEY No. 2400 By Representatives MICO7ZE HERSHEY, An Act amending the act of July 28, 1988 (P.L.556, No.101). SCHULER, CIVERA, RAYMOND, COLAIZZO, TLJLLI, known as the Municipal Waste Planning, Recycling and Waste HARLEY, BELFANTI, E. Z. TAYLOR, VAN HORNE, Reduction Act, further providing for host municipality benefit fee. PEIRONE, 'TRELLO, FREEMAN. GERLACB, BUNT, Referred to Committee on CONSERVATION, Decem- IIASAY, I>eLUCA, ADOLPII, DURHAM, OLASZ, ber 15, 1993. JAROLIN, CAW, J. 'TAYLOY STETLER, MERRY, CORRIGAN, KENNEY, COI,AFEI,LA, HENNESSEY, GIGLIOTI'I, O'BRIEN, GRUPPO, MELIO, PETRARCA. CESSAR and LAWLESS 2362 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE DECEMBER 1.5

No. 2406 By Representatives SERAFINI, GEORGE ULIANA, FARMER, ROBERTS, SATHER, MELIO, and HASAY COLAIZZO, M. COHEN. FAJT, LEDERER, FLICK, JAROLIN, DeLUCA, HENNESSEY, HERMAN, CARONE, An Act providing for regulation of water wells and for ROONEY, McCALL, BELFAhTI, KING, DURHAM, \ restriction of water usage. YEWCIC, STURLA, STEIGHNER, CURRY, PISTELLA, Referred to Committee on CONSERVATION, kcem- E. Z. TAYLOR O'BRIEN, LAUGHLIN, WILLIAMS and ber 15, 1993. I COLAFELLA An Act amending the act of August 14, 1991 (P.L.342, No.36), NO. 2407 By Representatives STEELMAN, PESCI, known as the Lonery Fund Preservation Act, further defining FREEMAN, HANNA and CURRY "income" to exclude increases in benefits received under the Social Security Act. An Act designating the section of S.R.4005 and S.R.0422, Indiana County, Pennsylvania, as Jimmy Stewart Boulevard. Referred to Committee on AGING AND YOUTH, Decem- w ber 15, 1993. Referred to Committee on TRANSPORTATION, Decem- ber 15, 1993. No. 2413 By Representatives TANGETTI, FICATER, PESCI, LAUB, FAIRCHILD, M. N. WRIGHT, No. 2408 By Representatives REINARD, STEIL, SATHER, MELIO, VEON, COLAIZZO, M. COHEN, TOMLINSON, M. N. WRIGHT, CONTI, DRUCE, CARONE, CURRY and STABACK CLYMER, MELIO and CORRlGAN An Act amending Title 75 (Vehicles) of the Pennsylvania An Act amending Title 35 (Health and Safety) of the Pennsyl- Consolidated Statutes, further providing for emergency lights on vania Consolidated Statutes, providing for the Pennsylvania certain private vehicles and for equipment standards. Emergency Grant Program; and making an appropriation. Referred to Committee on TRANSPORTATION, Decem- Referred to Committee on LOCAL GOVERNMENT, hrr 15 1991 December 15, 1993. 1 .-' .**- No. 2414 By Representatives TANGRETI?, KING, No. 2409 By Representatives CESSAR, STElGHNEQ NAILOR, BUNT, VEON, COY, HENNESSEY, ROONEY, WOZNIAK, TRELLO, BELFANTI, BATI'ISTO, COLAFELLA, GIGLIOTTI, MERRY, GIGLIO'ITI, LAUGHLIN, PETRARCA, VAN HORNE, MANDERINO, TRICH, SURRA, STABACK, STEELMAN ROBINSON and GODSHALL and DRUCE An Act amending the act of December 19, 1988 (P.L.1262, An Act amending the act of March 4. 1971 (P.L.6. NO.^), No.156), known as the Local Option Small Games of Chance Act. known as the Tax Reform Code of 1971, providing for amount of further providing for prize limits for raffles. tax on private sale of motor vehicles, trailers and semi-trailers.

Referred to Committee on FINANCE, December 15,1993. Referred to Committee on FINANCE, December 15, 1993.

No. 2410 By Representatives LEE, LAUB, No. 2415 By Representatives BLAUM, RI'ITER, HENNESSEY and STERN BAKER, VEON, GORDNER, LAUB, SURRA, DENT, An Act amending the act of July 6, 1984 (P.L.614. No.127). STISH. TIGUE. BEBKO-JONES. SATHER MELIO. known as the Sheriff Fee Act, further providing for certain WOGAN, GODSHALL, WILLIAMS, FREEMAN, additional fees. PRESTON, SAURMAN, MANDERINO, YEWCIC, Refelred to Committee on JUDICIARY, December 15, HENNESSEY, PISTELLA, MUNDY, CURRY, COY, 1993. RUDY, STABACK, DALEY, BELARDI, THOMAS and GEIST No. 2411 By Representatives LEE, CESSAR, An Act amending the act of April 9. 1929 (P.L.177. No.175). * MARSICO, CAWLEY, GEIST, CLARK, TRELLO, known as The Administrative Code of 1929, further providing for HENNESSEY, SURRA and LAUGHLIN responsibilities of victims of crime under basic bill of rights. An Act amending Title 34 (Game) of the Pennsylvania Referred to Committee on RJDICIARY, December 15, ConsolidatedStatutes, further providing for permits for individuals 1993. with disabilities. Referred to Committee on GAME AND FISHERIES, No. 2416 By Representatives CHADWICK, LYNCH, December 15, 1993. WAUGH, MASLAND. M. N. WRIGHT, LAUB, DENT. NAILOR, KREBS, ROBERTS, BLAUM, GERLACH, m No. 2412 By Representatives TANGRETTI, PllTS, HUTCHINSON, ARGALL, ROHRER, GIGLIOTI?, MIHALICH, KUKOVICH, SCRIMENTI, HENNESSEY, PICCOLA, PLA'ITS, ARMSTRONG and GORDNER, PESCI, STISH, LAUB, VAN HORNE, MERRY 1993 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE 2363

A Joint Resolution proposing an amendment to the Constitu- By Representatives MURPHY, MMALICH, !Ion of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, decreasing the No. 2422 number of senatorial districts. GIG1,IOTTI and JAROLIN Referred to Committee on STATP GOVERNMENT, An Act providing for the payment of the salary, medical and hospital expenses ofemergency medical technicians and paramed- December 15, 1993. ics employed hy cities of the second class. No. 2417 By Representatives CIIADWICK, LYNCH, Referred to Committee on LABOR RELATIONS, Decem- WAUGH, MASLNVD, LAUB, NAILOR, KREBS, ber 15, 1993. M. COHEN, ROBERTS, FREEMAN, PIlTS, HIIKHINSON. KOIIKER HENNESSEY and MERRY No. 2423 By Representatives KASUNIC, MMALICH, TRELLO, DALEY, FAIRCHILD, FARGO, SAYLOR A Jomt Resolution proposing an amendment to the Constitu- tion of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, increasing the numbor BARLEY, STAIRS, GORDNER, WAUGH, ROBERTS, of senatorial districts. HERSHEY, SCHEETZ, COLAIZZO, ARMSTRONG, LAUGHLIN, SURRA, DeWEESE, GODSHALL, DeLUCA Referred to Committee on STA'I'E GOVERNMENT, and M~m~ Ijecember 15, 1993. An Act providing for enforcement of the cruelty to animals law on farms; and conferring powers and imposing duties on the No. 2418 By Representatives GLAIIECK, BUNT, Department of Agriculture. IEH, CORNELI,, I.A[JB, LAWLESS, TOMLINSON, PLAITS. WAUCiH. PICCO1,A and MARSICO Referred to Committee on AGRICULTURE AND RURAL AFFAIRS, December 15, 1993. A Joint Resolution proposing an amendment to the Constitu- tion of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, further providxng for prohibition of the delegation of certain puwers. No. 2424 By Representatives PICCOLA, 1,. 1. COHEN, DALEY, HENNESSEY, D. W. SNYDER, Refemd to Committee on LABOR RELAllONS, Decem-

~ ~ WOGAN, NAILOR S~HEETZ,TI~UE, MELI~, ber 15, 1993. I COWELL, MIHALICH, CAWLEY, FICHTER, LaGROTTA, DEMPSEY, MAKSICO, PE'Tm, BAITISTO, No. 2419 Hy Representatives MAYEKNIK and FARMER, CARONE, STEELMAN, BUNT, GERLACH, FAIRCHILD SEE, CESSAR, VANCE, FLICK, RUBLEY, BELFANTI, An Act amending the act of March 10, 1949 (P.L.30, No.14), FARGO, E. Z. TOMLINSON, SAWAN and known as the Public School Code of 1949, further providing for GEIST nonresident child placed in home of resident, for liability for tu~tionand enforcement of payment, for cost of tuition and for An Act amending Title 18 (Crimes and Offenses) of the payments on account of- tuition; and making editorial changes. Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes, further providing for posses- sion of weapon on school property; providing for possession or Referred to Committee on EDIJCA'IION, December 15, transportation of certain firearms by persons under 18 years of 1993. age; and further providing for issuance of licenses and juvenile records.

No. 2420 By Representatives THOMAS, HUGHES, Referred to Committee on JUDICIARY, December 15, WILLIAMS, KIRKLAND, WASHINGTON and EVANS 1993. An Act providing for the registration of certain guns, for restrictions on the sale of guns, for duties of manufacturers, No. 2425 BY Representatives PLAmS, MASLAND, wholesalers and retailers of guns. for additional duties of the CHADWICK, DENT and EGOLF Pennsylvania State Pol~ce.for the maintenance of certain records, for civil l~ab~lityand for background checks; and providing An Act amending the act of June 3, 1937 (P.L.1333, No.320), penalties. known as the Pennsylvania Election Code, further providing for reporting by candidate and political committees and other persons. Referred to Committee on JUDICIAKY, December 15, 1993. Referred to Committee on STATE GOVERNMENT, 1)ecember 15, 1993. Nu. 2421 By Representatives MUWIIY, MIHALICH, GIGI.IOTTI, McNAL1,Y and MELIO No. 2426 By Representatives PLA'ITS, MASLAM), CHADWICK, CARONE and EGOLF An Act authorizing collective bargaining between emergency med~caltechnicians and paramedics and cities of the second class; An Act amending the act of June 3, 1937 (P.L.1333, No.320), providing for arbitration in order to settle disputes and requirmg known as the Pennsylvania Election Code, providing for contribu- compliance with collective bargaining agreements and fimdings of tions or expenditures by political action committees. arbitrators. Referred to Committee on STATE GOVERNMENT, Refel~edto (lommittee on LABOR KEIATIONS, Dccem- necemkr15, 1993. kr 15, 1993. 2364 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE DECEMBER 15

No. 2427 By Representatives MELIO, ADOLPH, The SPEAKER The Chair would momentarily ask the L. I. COHEN, SANTONI, LAUB and COWELL gentleman to veld and to recall that meeting in possibly 5 minutes, but not at the present moment. An Aclan~rnd~ngthcacIofJut~c 24. 1931 (I'.I..12(16.Nu.331,. Mr. STURLA. 'hnk you. known as lbe Ftrst Class fuwnship Code, iurther prov~Jlngfar ord~natlcesanti rrsuluttons by boards of cunlmlssloncrs LEAVE OF ABSENCE Referred to Committee on LOCAI, GOVERNMENT, December IS, 1993. The SPEAKER The gentleman from Philadelphia Mr. O'DONNELL, requests a leave for the remainder of the day. No. 2428 By Representatives MELIO, ADOLPH, With no objection, the gentleman's leave will be granted, L. 1. COHEN, SANTONl, LAUB and COWELL and the clerk will take note of the leave.

An Act amending the act of July 31, 1968 (P.L.805, No.247), known as the Pennsylvania Municipalities Planning Code, further FAREWELL ADDRESS b providing for publication, advertisement and availability of The SPEAKER Sergeants at Arms, please close the doors subdivision, land development and zoning ordinances and amendments. of the House. The House will please come to order. As the leaders confer, one of our colleagues, who will be Referred to Committee on LOCAL GOVERNMENT, leaving-. us. has reauested a few moments at the microphone. December 15, 1993. It is the pleasure of the Chair to welcome Representative Murphy to take the mike for a couple of minutes and to reflect HOUSE RESOLUTION and to share some comments on his last day in our midst. INTRODUCED AND REFERRED The Chair would respectfully ask the members to please be No. 224 By Representatives SAURMAN, TRUE, Representative Tom Murphy. FICHTER, GAMBLE, PETRONE and GRWPO I sed Mr. MURPHY. Thank vou. Bill A Resolution memorializing the President and the United Fourteen years ago, over' half the Allegheny County States Congress to reprimand Joycelyn Elders, United States delegation changed hands, and a group of us came here Surgeon General, for her remarks concerning the legalization of drugs in the United States. thinking we were going to change the world. A number of us are still here, and they are dear friends. There is one who is Referred to Committee on RULES, December 15, 1993. not, in particular, that I think about today, and that is Steve Seventy, who was a dear friend and one who I know is SENATE BILLS FOR CONCURRENCE watching us today and, me personally, watching with great pride. The clerk of the Senate, being introduced, presented the It is aremarkable process that we participate in: remarkable following bills for concurrence: that we can awe on anything and remarkable that people from SB 846, PN 919 such diverse backgrounds, those of us from cities and those of us from the countryside, can come here and have the battles Referred to Chmmittee on ~DIC~YPlle~ember 15, we have today and ultimately agree to make a decision to 1993. move forward. But now 1 have an opportunity. The people of Pittsburgh have given me what I think is the best job in America. Referred to Committee on LOCAL GOVERNMENT, Running a city, any city, I think you face the very best and the December 15, 1993. vely worst of what our society has to offer, and I am going to

need enormous help to be successful. You have given me some ~~ of that help yesterday, and I want to thank those of you who Referred to Committee on PROFESSIONAL LICENSURE, supported HB 659. It means a new day for the city of Pitts- W December 15, 1993. burgh. It means a new day for those of us in Allegheny County in how we work together, and it showed great leadership on all of your parts, Republican and Democrat, to support that. Referred to Committee on JUDICIARY, December 15, I will need that continued good will to make our city 1993. succeed, and I know I will find it with all of you. I leave here with great sadness, more so than I would have The SPEAKER The gentleman, Mr. Sturla, is recognizd thought I had a few days ago, because of the good will many for an announcement. The members will ples take note. of you on both sides of the aisle demonstrated yesterday in the Mr. STURLA. Mr. Speaker, 1 would like to call an words of good wishes that you gave me. immediate meeting of the Third-Class Cities Subcommittee of Thank you very much. It has been a pleasure. the Urban Affairs Committee in the back of the House. 1993 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE 2365

The SPEAKER. The Chair wishes Tom good luck. Penn- Amend Sec. 1 (Sec. 6120), page 14, line 23, by inserting brackets before and after "NO" and inserting immediately sylvania, southwestem Pemylvania in particular and pitts- thereafter burgh specifically, will be well sewed. Except as vrovided in subsection (a.1). no Sec. 1 14, -Does -~~ the -eentleman. Mr. Rvan.-. seek recognition? Amend (Sec. 6120), page by inserting between Mr. RYAN. Mr. speaker, I had an opportunity to speak lines 28 and 29 with the mayor-elect several times over the recent past, and I really do not envy him the coming 4 years as the mayor of a large city in Pennsylvznia, or really anyplace. I know that what he says is true. It is an opportu~ty,I guess. It is an opportuni- ty to do a great deal of good. It is an opportunity to be sorely disappointed or greatly gratified. On the question recumng, 1 think the Irish wit of Mr. Murphy, he is going to have to Will the House agree- to the amendments? keep that handy. 'Ihe Irish luck he is going to have to hold onto a little closer, perhaps, than the Irish wit. I certainly wish The SPEAKEK The gentleman may proceed on his debate. him the very hest. Rc has been a good friend for many years. Mr. WILLIAMS. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Ile has not always voted right - for either side - but he has I am not quite confident, Mr. Speaker, that the gentleman always been appreciated and he will be missed. Thank you, from the other side can quite hear this discussion, but I will Mr. Speaker. proceed anyway. The SPEAKER. The Sergeants at Arms will open the doors We in Philadelphia County some several months ago of the House. enacted an ordinance which would allow us to ban assault weapons, and Pittsburgh, somewhat I guess, apparently, SENATE MESSAGE subsequently followed. Since that time I guess a lot has I ensued, and certainly this discussion has been enlightening to AMENDED HOlJSE BILLS REWED all of us, but we still maintain in Philadelphia County that we FOR CONCURKENCE AND need this particular ban. So therefore, I have draAed an REFERKED TO COMMITIEE ON RULES amendment whlch would allow Philadelphia County to maintain its ban, while those nonresidents of Philadelphia The clerk of thc Senate, being introduced, returned HB County who are traveling through Philadelphia i.e., coming 299, PN 2878; and HR 353, PN 2964, with information that - the Senate has passed the same with amendment in which the from the airpoli, from the train station -traveling to a destiny outside of Philadelphia with arms which were disengaged concurrence of the House of Representatives is requested. would be allowed to do that. Mr. Speaker, I am trying to speak to members who have CONTINUED CONSIDERAT1ON OF HB I asked me fur this compromise. If they do not want to hear On the question recumng, about the compromise, 1 will be more than happy to withdraw Will the House concur in Senate amendments as amended? it, but I am doing it in an attempt to reconcile nual and urban concerns. 1 would ask that they would listen. The SPEAKER. We are prepzing to confront Mr. Ryan's The SPEAKER. Again, the issue is of crucial concem to amendment, but I am not certain whether it has been dist~ihut- many of our fellow Pennsylvanians. The gentleman from ed at this point. Mr. Ryan's amendment A5096 will be next on Philadelphia represents a constituency who has a keen concern, our agenda. It is being distributed at ths moment. and he is tlying to be heard. The one group at the minority The House will please come to order. leader's desk is an exception, but the Chair would ask that the lhe gentleman, Mr. Williams of Philadelphia, has an Sergeants at Arms break up groups of more than two. Respect- amendment that was read across the desk. That amendment fully, I request the members take their seats. If they find they wa A4827. The gentleman, Mr. Ryan, was accidentally must talk, I would prefer they only talk in groups of two, with recognized by the Chair, but the gentleman, Mr. Ryan, has the exception of the group at the minority leader's desk. been informed that Mr. Williams had already had the floor and The gentleman may continue. yielded it to Representative Rkin when the postponement Mr. WILLIAMS. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. measure was voted upon. So the gentleman, Mr. Williams, will To put it simply, those members of this body who are most be recognized. and then the gentleman, Mr. Ryan, will be concerned about their sports clubs' members, those collectors, recognized subsequent to the gentleman from Philadelphia. and those folks who they think will be traveling thgh On the question recurring, Philadelphia and would be unfairly targeted and therefore Will the House concur in Senate amendments as amended? persecuted upon their detentio~they would beexcluded. They Mr. WILLIAMS reoffered the following amendments No. would be allowed to travel through Philadelphia as long as A4827, whch had been read previously by the clerk: they were not staying there, with their weapon disengaged, travel through Philadelphia to whatever destination, without the threat, without the concem, or without the possible penalty LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE DECEMBER 15 from the judicial pnxess in Philadelphia, to travel to whatever EXCUSEb7 their destiny would be. It would also allow Philadelphians, Acosts Coheo. L. I. Olasz Rieger residents of Philadelphia, to maintain their particular ban on Bush O'Donnell Petmrsa their residents of Philadelphia. Thank you. Mr. Soeaker. *. The SPEAKER The chair thanks the gentleman for his The question was determined in the negative, and the brief and cogent remarks. amendments were not agreed to. On the question recumng, On the question retuning, Will the House agree to the amendments? Will the House concur in Senate amendments as amended? The following roll call was recow. Mr. RYAN offered the following amendments No. A5096: Amend Title, page 1, by inserting before line 1 (A4786) AmendTitle, page I, line 17, by striking out "LIMITATION .C Addpb Evms Kukovicb Ritter ON~ ~MUNICIPAL" ~~- BeMrc-Jooap Fajl Laub Roebuck Amend ~e;. 1 (Sec. 6111), page 2. line 16 (A4786), by Bishop Farmer Ledrrer Rmney striking out all of said line BIaum Fichler Rubley Amend Sec. 1 (Sec 6111), page 2, line 22 (A4786). by Butkovilz Flick Mandenno Saurman striking out all of said line Buxton F~BMcGeeban Stekler Xmend Sec. I (Sec. 61 1 I), page 2, lines 24 and 25 (A4786), Camanca Giglid Melio Slurla by striking out all of said lines Cam Gl&k Michfovic Taylor, J. Amend Sec. 1 (Sec. 6111), page 2, lines 29 through 32 Cawley Haluska Miccmje Tho- (A4786). by striking out all of said lines CeSu H.dey Mibalich Tigue Amend Sec. 1 (Sec. 6111). page 2, line 45 (A4786), by ,. Civera Hmease~ Mundy Tdlo striking out all of said line Cohen, U Hush- Murphy Trish Amend Sec. 1 (Sec. 6111), page 2, line 49 (A4786). by Comell Itkim O'Brien Van Home striking out all of said line -g.n James Oliver veoo Amend Sec. 1 (Sec. 6111), page 3, line 1 (A4786). by Cavall Joseph$ Penel Vitali striking out all of said line curry Kaiser Pdrone Washington Amend Sec. 1 (Sec. 6111). page 3, line 23 (A4786). by Dent Kellar R&llelle Willianw striking out all of said line Dwcci Kmey PR~~Wagan Amend Bill, page 3, by inserting behveen lines 31 and 32 Durh"l Kirldaod Richardson (A4786) Section 3. Chapter 61 of Title 18 is amended by adding a subchapter to read: CHAPTER 61 AlIm Ga&e MM Seraimi FIREARMS AND OTHER DANGEROUS ARTICLES Argall Gmw Masland Smith. 8. 1 1 Geir* Msywuk Smith, S. H. Bakex c+=iS McCdl Snyder, D. W. mey Gdsch McNdly Staback Sec. BeUist.3 Godshall Merry Stain 6181. Definitions. Beid Gndoer Miller Steelma0 6182. Registration. &If4 G~i(ra Nailor Steigbner 6183. Relinquishment of weapons. Binnelin GVF Nickol Sleil 6184. Licensed gun dealers. Boyes Hanna Nw Stem 6185. Penalties. Bmwn Hasay P& Stish 6186. Application of subchapter. But HmMn P&t strinmtlel 8 6181. Definitions. Caltsgimne Hde~ Phillip Sum The following words and phrases when used in th~ssubchap- c.rooe Has Piccda Tangretli ter shall have the meanings given to them in this section unless CMwick Hutcbjnm Pms Taylor, E. 2. the context clearly indicates otherwise: Clark Jdowiec PI& Todinson "Assault weapon." Clyma Jarolin Rar~d True (I) The following weapons known by the trade Coldella Kasunic Reba Tulli names specified: Cdabm King Reinard Uliaoa RIFLES Cooti Kreba R* Vmce Algimec AGM I type coy LaGIotla Robinsoo Wad Bushmaster Assault Rifle (armgun) Daley Lauain Robrer Wmaiak CETME G3 DeLucn Lawless Rudy Wright, D. R Chartered Industries SR-88 tvoe.. Dempsey Lee Ryan Wright, M. N. Daewoo K-l Denmdv Leh Santoni Yaodrisevlts Daewoo K-2 DNE~ Lesmirz Sdn Ynvcic Daewoo Max 1 Egolf Lloyd Saylor Zu8 Daewoo Max 2 Fairchild hc~k Scheea Heckler & Koch MP-5 F~rgo Lynch Scbuler Dew-, M-16 type Fee Maitlsod Scrimenti Speaker Sterling MK-6 m-de Markwk Semmel SHOTGUNS NOT VOTING-0 Steyr-AUG semiautomatic type UZI Pistol LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE

(2) Any shotgun with a revolving cylinder such as Any licensed gun dealer who lawfully possesses an assault the "Street Sweeper'' or "Striker 12." weapon under this subchapter, in addition to the uses allowed "Automatic firearm." A firearm which uses a portion of the hereunder, may transport the weapon between dealers or out of force of a fired cartridge to expel the case of the fired cartridge this Commonwealth, display it at any gun show licensed by a and load another cartridge into the firing chamber; and which State or local governmental entity, sell it to a resident outside this automatically shoots more than one shot by a single function of Commonwealth or sell it to a oerson who has been issued a oermit the trigger. pursuant to this subchapter: Any transporting allowed dy this "Commissioner." The Commissioner of the Pennsylvania section must he done as required by this subchapter. State Police. 5 6185. Penalties. "Licensed gun dealer." A person who has a Federal hearms (a) Unlawful manufacture, importation, etc.-Any person license and any business license required by a State or local who within this Commonwealth manufactures or causes to he governmental cntity. munufactured, d~\tributrs.transports or imports mto thts Common- "Semiautomatic firearm." A firearm which uses a portion of wealth, keep, for sale or offers or exposes for sale, or who gtves the force of a fired cartridgo to expel the case of the fired or lends any assault weapon, except as provided by this suhchap- cartridge and load another cartridge into the firing chamber; and ter, commits a felony of the third degree. which requ~resa separate function of the trigger to fire each (b). , Unlawful ,oossession.-Anv , Derson. oossessin~- an assault cartridgo. weapon in violatlt~nofthl, subchapter comrnlts a m~sdemeanorof 4 6182. Registration. the first degree ft,r a lirsl uficnse and a fehmy of the thlrd degree (a) General rule.-Any person who lawfully possesses an for each subsequent offense. assault weapon, prior to 90 days after the effective date of this 6 6186. Aonlication of subchanter subchapter, shall register the firearm within one year of that I'hls ;;bchapter shall not applyIC, the use or possesston of effective date, with the commissioner under those procedures assault weapons by State or local law enforcement agenclrs. the which the Pennsylvania State Police may establish. The registra- ni~lttaryf0rcr.s of rht, C'omnionwaallh or the armed iorces oi the tion shall contain a description of the firearm that identifies it United States uniquely, including all identification marks, the full name, address, date of birth and thumbprint of the owner, and any other On the question, information as the department may deem appropriate. The department may charge a fee for registration of up to $20 per Will the House agree to the amendments? nerson but not to exceed the actual orocessinv costs of the r ~~~ - department. FILMING PERMISSION (b) Ccrtain sales, transfers, etc.-No assault weapon possessed under this section may be sold or transferred on or after The SPEAKER Members should be aware that Bill Baldini 90 days following the effective date of this subchapter, to anyone within this Commonwealth other than to a licensed gun dealer, as of WCAU, channel 10, will be filming during Ule debate of defined herein. Any person who obtains title to an assault weapon HB 185. registered under this section by bequest or intestate succession, moves into this Commonwealth in lawful oossession of an assault weapon or lawfully possessed a firearm subsequently declared to CONSIDERATION OF HB 185 CONTINUED be an assault weapon under this subchapter shall, within 90 days, elther render the weapon permanently moperable, sell the weapon The SPEAKER The gentlema Mr. Ryah is recognized to a l~censedgun dealer or remove the weapon from this Com- Mr. RYAN. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. .rnnnwenlrh-. .. ., .-. ... . Mr. Speaker, this has been, really, a different day as our (c) Conditions of possession.-A person who has registered an assault weapon under this section may possess it only under the days go up here. HB 185 touches on a subject matter that is fallowinv conditions unless a oermit allowinz additional uses is controversial. We have spent a great deal of time on it today. . -~ - first obtlined: I promise you, it is not my intention to spend a great deal of (1) At that person's residence, place of business or time debating it. 1 think it is the type issue that everyone in other property owned by that person or on property owned by another with the owner's express permission. this room is familiar with. We spent hours, it seems, on the (2) While on the premises of a target range of a Michlovic amendments. Based on that knowledge that we public or private club or organization organized for the gained during the lengthy debate, I am going to use that as the .nurnose . of ~racticineshootine at tarpets. (3) while on; target ranye wkch holds a regulatory base and from that base describe what my amendments do. or business license for the purpose of practicing shooting at I have taken the list of some 45 weapons that were that target range. mentioned in that amendment and cut it down to 15 weapons. (4) While on the premises of a shooting club. Now, let tell you how that about. (5) While attending any exhibition, display or me comes educational project which is about firearms and which is Using the advice of representatives of people that I sponsored by, conducted under the auspices of or approved consider somewhat expert in Pennsylvania as to the needs of by a law enforcement agency or a nationally or State legitimate users of weapons -that is, the Sportsmen's Federa- recognized cntity that fosters proficiency in, or promotes education about, firearms. tion; the National Rifle Association; the Federation of Sporb (6) While transporting the assault weapon between men from Centre County, for instance; the Gun Collectors; the any of the places mentconed h this subsection.. Sportsmen's Clubs - we tried to get from them an idea of No person who is under 18 years of aye and no person who is prohibited from possessing a firearm by this chapter may register what weapons are used legitimately for target practice, for or possess an assault weapon. 'l'hc reg~strationprocedures shall marksmanship, for legitimate recreation, for hunting, both here provide the option ofjoint registration for assault weapons owned in Pennsylvania and elsewhere, and we tried to get this from by family members res~dingin the same household. the list of weapons that were contained in HB 185. Having 5 6183. Relinquishment of weapons. Any individual may arrange in advance to relinquish an obtained them, and I might say that the list of sketches that assault weapon to a police or sheriffs department. were provided to us by, I believe, Mr. Hughes-at least I am 5 6184. L~censedgun dealers. 2368 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE DECEMBER 15 giving him credit for providing them; I think that is their what he offers versus what I offer. I hope he looks at it on the source-we went through that list that he provided to us-or Mr. merit of the issue and understands that we need to stop these James; I am not sure where that came from-we have made assault weapons. those weapons taboo. They are outlawed in Pennsylvania. You So I say again, I would ask people to vote for the Ryan k would no longer be permitted to buy them. If you now own amendment. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. them, however. you could keep them. However, if you decide The SPEAKER The gentleman, Mr. Mihalich, on the Ryan you are going to keep them, you must register them. amendment. If the list is to be expanded, there was some concern about Mr. MIHALICH. Mr. Speaker, may I intcrmgate the maker who has the right to expand that list. The legitimate sportsmen of the amendment? were concerned about who would be charged with the respon- The SPEAKER. The gentleman indicates he will stand for sibility of expanding the list of taboo weapons. We retain that interrogation. Mr. Mihalich may proceed. responsibility here in the legislature. If the list is to be added Mr. MIHALICH. Mr. Speaker, I have only one question. to, we will add to that list. If the list is to be deleted from, we I noticed you mentioned several organizations that you had will do the deletions. consulted with who have expertise, and the ones you men- Primacy, which has long been of concern to sportsmen of tioned, I llly agree with you; they do have expertise. But my all salts and legitimate users of firearms, remains at the State question is, did you consult the State Police, did you consult level. the F.O.P., did you consult maybe the Federal agencies or All assault weapons, all assault weapons, purchasing them anybody else from law enforcement on this question? in Pennsylvania, you would be required to wait 5 days, and Mr. RYAN. If I had, I would have mentioned it. you would be required to undergo a criminal background check Mr. MIHALICH. Thank you very much. prior to being issued permission to purchase the assault The SPEAKER. The gentleman, Mr. Dempsey, is recog- weapon. nized. In all other respects, 1 believe the amendment tracks the Mr. DEMPSEY. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. earlier amendment. I wonder if I could interrogate the maker of the amend- I am going to ask that the House adopt this amendment. ment, please. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. 'I'he SPEAKER The gentleman from Delaware indicates he The SPEAKER. The Chair thanks the gentleman and will stand for interrogation. Mr. Dempsey may proceed. recognizes the gentleman, Mr. Evans, from Philadelphia on the Mr. DEMPSEY. Mr. Speaker, in the explanation of your Ryan amendment. amendment, you said that you received from the various Mr. EVANS. Mr. Speaker, I am going to do something that spotting groups lists of rifles. My question is, do these groups the minority leader did not do. approve of your amendment? When the vote went down on Tom Michlovic's amendment, Mr. RYAN. Well, let me take you through the exercise that there were 83 people that voted for Michlovic's amendment; I went through in getting these amendments. I have been there were 83. There were 115, and as a matter of fact, the through this a number of times today with different little minority leader voted "no." But what 1 am going to do is rise subgroups around this area. There is no reason why I do not up and support the minority leader's amendment. I am going to go the rest of the way. suppori that amendment, even though I do not think full well I do not believe I have fired a gun or a weapon or rifle of ' that that amendment is adequate to address the issue. 1 intend, any sort since I got out of the Marine Corps, except maybe as soon as we vote this amendment and I vote for this amend- once or twice. I have forgotten pretty much about it, hut my ment, to offer my amendment, and I will describe my amend- leanings have always been similar to yours, I believe, and my ment after we iinish with Mr. Ryan's amendment. vote probably tracks yours, for the most part. My interests, But I think that we need to send a message to all Pennsyl- however, have gone more to missing big fish than missing big vanians that this is not a Democrat or Republican issue and not deer. an urban, mral, or suburban issue, but this is an issue of What I did yesterday afternoon was I met with several of stopping the violence that is occurring in the Commonwealth our staff people, one tlylng to escape in the back now and of Pennsylvania; that we need to stand up for the police another who is cornered on this corner of the aisle. - officers of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania; that we need Mr. DEMPSEY. I think you are answering my question. to stand up and say, enough is enough. So I am encouraging Mr. RYAN. All right. those people who were the 83 people who voted to vote for And 1 said to the two of them, figure out some way; talk Matt Ryan's amendment, because I think it is important that to whomever you have to talk to from the index of legitimate this issue not be something that is political; that this issue be, gun users, from sportsmen's organizations, from rifle associa- once and for all, that we take the high ground. tions, whomever you have to, whomever you respect, whomev- I am saying today that I hope Mr. Ryan, when I offer my er you deal with in your capacity as staff people interested in amendment, will take the same kind ofjustification that I have this rype legislation, wluch these particular people are interest- made and look at my amendment on the merit of the issue, not - ed in, and come up with some way of taking these 45 weapons so much because I am a Democrat and he is a Republican and and identifying those that obviously are not used for, 1993 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE 2369

quote-my quote; no one else'squote-"legitimate sporting uses" As I understood HB 185 as we began to consider it, there - for target shooting, for deer shooting, for bunny rabbit was language contained within that legislation that would void shooting, skeet shooting - and give me that list, and give me the ordinances that had been adopted in the city of Pittsburgh an amendment so that I have something to offer tomorrow. and in the city of Philadelphia. My question is, what would be These two staff people, together with a representative from the effect of those ordinances should the House choose to the NRA, 1 am told, a representative of the Sprtsmcn's Clubs adopt your legislation as it is offered today? association, a representative of the citizns for-I forget the Mr. RYAN. My amendment does not address that issue. name-Keystone Rifle and Pistol, and another citizens Whatever was in the bill is in the bill. groupand 1 forget the name of that one, frankly-they stayed Mr. PISTELLA. Okay. Asking only your opinion, again, of here until I I o'clock last night, I am told. I was not there; I the language, if this is adopted, if your amendment is adopted, was at the Maverick. At 8:30 this moming, lo and behold, I are you of the opinion that the potential would be there that had an amendment, and that amendment we went over with this language would override or supersede the court's interpre- staff people all moming, and I have had caucuses off and on tation of the validity of those two ordinances? all moming and afternoon, explaining what these things were Mr. RYAN. Are you asking for my expert opinion? all about, and that is the background of where this came from. Mr. PISTELLA. Yes, sir; I am. These weapons, I do not know the first thing about them. Mr. RYAN. Yes, I do have an opinion. 1 know what the M-l is. All right. Beyond that, you know, I Mr. PISTELLA. Would you be kind enough to share it am somewhat at a loss. with us? Mr. DEMPSEY. Mr. Speaker, I thank you for that explana- Mr. RYAN. It is my opinion that primacy would rest with tion. However, the fad that these organizations gave you a list, the State, where it belongs. what I want to know is, are they endorsing this amendment or Mr. PISTELLA. Okay. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. did they just give you a list? I have concluded my intenogation Mr. RYAN. Well, they certainly knew what I was asking If I could, on the amendment. for, and I guess, in truth, 1 cannot answer that. 1 can say that The SPEAKER On the amendment, Mr. Pistella. they knew that what 1 wanted was an amendment that repre- Mr. PISTELLA. I applaud the sincere effort that the sented a compromise between Michlovic and nothing. What I minority leader has undertaken. I mean that sincerely. He and had actually asked for was a lisl of guns, weapons, that were his staff, I am sure, put a lot of effort and consideration into not particularly used by sporting persons for sporting reasons, this. My understanding, however, was, when we adopted the and my instructions were to find ones that 1 could comfonably Godshall amendment of the other day, we would have taken a put before this legislature for the purpose of banning. step beyond at that point the content of HB 185. I have made Now, 1 got that list from them, and if nothing else, I feel commitments back in my district that I would support whatever confident that they are saying if something bad in their mind I could to make sure that that ordinance that was adopted in has to happen, this is what it should happen to, you know, the city of Pittsburgh would stand. rather than something else. I never met with these people I think that the minority leader has made a sincere effort to myself. 'This was something staff people met with them about. reach a compromise. However, I would encourage those Mr. DEMPSEY. 'lhank you, Mr. Speaker. members that were from those areas that have ordinances to Mr. Speaker, may I speak on the amendment, please? vote against this. I think that what he is doing, in a very veiled The SPEAKER. ?he gentleman, Mr. Dempsey, is in order way, is lrylng to ask, more or less, the fox that is guarding the to speak on the Ryan amendment and may proceed. henhouse what the heck they want. I have not heard the Mr. DEMI'SEY. 'Thank you, Mr. Speaker. minority leader say he consulted with the Police Chiefs My concern is-and 1 appreciate Mr. Ryan's explanation of Association, the Fraternal Order of Police, anyone that is the history of what happened to tlus amendment-but nowhere associated or affiliated with the Crime Victim's Compensation in this amendment did I hear him say that these guns and this Commission, on what they think should be involved in this amendment was endorsed by the dfferent sportsmen's associa- amendment, and it is for that reason that I would suggest that tions. So I will be opposing Mr. Ryan's amendment. Thank we not adopt this amendment. you. The SPEAKER Representative Brown is recognized on The SPEAKER. Mr. Pistella is recognized on the Ryan Mr. Ryan's amendment. Mrs. Brown. amendment. Mrs. BROWN. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. PISTELLA. l'hank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise in opposition to the Ryan amendment. 1 was wondering if the minority leader would be kind Yes, it is our job to represent our districts, and I can assure enough to stand for a few questions, please. you that for me and most of ~uralPennsylvania, this amend- The SPEAKER. The gentleman. Mr. Ryan, indicates he ment is not acceptable, because you are still subjecting your will answer a couple of questions for the gentleman from special gun controls on me and everyone in the Common- Pittsburgh. Mr. Pistella may proceed. wealth. Mr. PISI'EL1,A. Mr. Speaker, a few questions, please, on I myself am a gun owner and enjoy that privilege. I own a your amendment. handgun and rifles. I enjoy hunting and the great outdoors. 2370 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE DECEMBER 15

When I first ran for State Representative, I personally Thank you. visited numerous sportsmen's clubs in my district, and I told The list, which was developed on the course of the them to pay attention and support the candidates or elected evening, apparently does not have the support of the guns, t officials who support their issues. I promised that I would he spofismen's groups, certainly not the law enforcement commu- an advocate and go to Harrisburg and not only be their voice nity. I am curious to figure out, other than just somebody but vote accordingly. This is the first time for me to do just walking into your office and saying, hey, throw this on the list, that, defend and protect our Constitution ofthe Commonwealth what other- I mean, hecause I believe that guns certainly are of Pennsylvania, the Declaration of Rights, section 21, "Right a tool in our society, butthey certainly are something that has to Bear Arms." some level of danger to them, regardless of whom you speak John Yates, editor of the Titusville Herald in my district, with, by accident or by intent. So I would like to know, as has expressed the majority of our feelings on gun control. opposed to the cavalier, because it comes across a bit cavalier Make no mistake about it - gun control is an assault on in terms of the comments about how this list was constructed, rural people. 1 would like to know how it was purified or what intellectual Firearms are a nonissue in Titusville and basically in my thought was given to the development of the list. district. Most rural people own guns of various kinds, and Mr. RYAN. Well, I think the development of the list I left many of us use them for hunting, target shooting, or other to people with a better intellectual base than my own. The recreational activities. Guns are considered tools or toys. They general opinion on this floor and I suspect the general opinion are a routine part of our everyday life. In terms of crime, guns of the population is that we truly are not experts in all areas have no relevance in Titusville and the Sixth District. despite what we ourselves think of ourselves. That king the Few crimes are committed with guns in my district, and case, I looked at tlus list of 45 weapons that were provided to almost none could have been prevented by limiting or control- us by Representative James, and I do not know whether these ling guns in any way. Titusville and my district have more are really bad or inherently bad weapons or not. Any weapon guns than people, and we have almost no shootings. Our is bad. A broomstick is bad in the hands of the wrong person. community is the best illustration possible of why gun control So I mean, you know, just because it is one of these things has nothing to do with crime. Our everyday life proves that does not mean that it is bad. It is the person who holds it that guns, and lots of them, do not cause or even contribute to makes it bad. crime. Violent people are the cause of violent crime. My problem was that a lot of people that I have a great Gun control in any form simply is a politically expcxhent deal of respect for, the people that make this country sing, the way of pretending to do something to solve the problem so people that make this country move, the people that are that a hidden agenda might be accomplished. The hidden hardworking people, who take their recreation in the great agenda is the urhan liberal's fanatic obsession with gun control. outdoors of Pennsylvania and enjoy this great State of ours, To compromise ow Bill of Rights, to compromise in any probably more so than you and I because we are more-at least amendment, to please the people who do not like how other I am putting you in my category, I guess-we are more citybred people live or tlunk is wrong. Almost no crimes, even in the than perhaps a lot of other people, and our recreation comes big cities, are committed with legally purchased weapons. Gun from different areas, they say they have a legitimate use for a control will not hurt the criminals. It will hurt rural, law- lot of these weapons that you and I perhaps are not familiar abiding Pennsylvanians. with. So I turned to them and I said to the likes of them, tell ' Gun control appeases liberals who fear and hate firearms. me which of these you do not use; tell me which of these are To them a rifle hanging over the fireplace is a symbol of not used for sharpshooting matches, for skeet shooting, for violence, brutality, and ugliness. To us and to me it is a tool legitimate hunting, for marksmanship contests and the like, and and a thing of practical beauty, and I want to repeat that. To relying on that expertise, this list was gleaned. us and to myself it is a tool and a thing of beauty. Now, that is not to suggest for a minute that these gmups Firearms are an important part of nual life. An assault on recommended to me anything to do with this amendment. I am firearms is yet one more assault on the very nature and fabric simply saying that I asked them to list for me the guns that of our lives. It is an assault on rural people. were used the least by sportsmen, I guess. W Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and I ask for my colleagues on I do not know whether that answered your question or not. both sides of the aisle to vote "no" on the Ryan amendment. Mr. WILLIAMS. Well, it is getting to the heart of it. The SPEAKER The gentleman, Mr. Williams, from I would like to know, are Uzis on your list or not on your Philadelphia on the Ryan amendment. list? I guess these are son of- Mr. WILLIAMS. Thank you. Mr. Speaker. Mr. RYAN. I do not know. Do you have the amendment Mr. Speaker, I would ask the maker of the amendment to before you? stand for a brief period of interrogation. Mr. WII,I,IAMS. I do not, and that is why I have asked. The SPEAKER. The gentleman indicates that he will. The The other one, the Street Sweeper, is that going to be- gentleman may proceed. banned? Mr. WILLIAMS. I do not see him standing yet, Mr. Mr. RYAN. Yes. They are on my list. The Ud pistol is on Speaker. my list. It is the last thing. 1993 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE 2371

Would somebody please give the gentleman a copy of my Mr. RYAN. Is that a question? amendment. Mr. WILLIAMS. Well, no. That is a statement in reaction Mr. WILLIAMS. Are you aware that a large percentage of to your comment. the assault weapons which you included on your list are no Mr. RYAN. Well, is the intermgation completed? longer manufactured? Mr. WILLIAMS. In fact, yes, it is, Mr. Speaker. Thank you Mr. RYAN. No, I am not aware of that. I told you before for that brief period of intermgation. I do not know much of anything about these things, but folks With that, I would like to conclude with my remarks. over on your side prepared this list initially. So, I mean, if it The SPEAKER The gentleman may proceed. was good enough for you to put it on your list, it is gocd Mr. WILLIAMS. Mr. Speaker, it is kind of obvious that on enough for me to put it on my list. This is your list. any level of criteria in terms of how this list should have been Mr. WI1,IIAMS. Well, actually it is not- developed certainly, certainly, it should have been started with Mr. RYAN. It started with your list. I am just worlang on police officers, and we have some members from Philadelphia it. County who happen to sit on that side of the aisle who have Mr. WILLIAMS. Kight. Right. constituents who live in their districts who have been assaulted 1 would have to, Mr. Speaker- I want to delineate and by some of these weapons, and certainly, the su~vorsof some separate myself from any suggestion that anyone on this list of those police officers who live in those districts, I am sure that we developed worked constructively and affirmatively to that they would have liked that the Police Commissioner be develop the current list which is before us, because that is not consulted with regard to this list. We have consulted with him, what happened. Certainly, there are assault weapons which and he has provided us with more than those 45 names, and were on our list which are also on this list, but it did not apparently they did not see the wisdom in terms of using that. happen because we bridged the gap or the cavem whch Certainly, we should have staned with those people who have separdtcs us or1 this issue. 1 am saying to you that the list to protect all of us in our society, and those police officers in which you have now before you has a number of weapons those law enforcement communities, I think, should be the which are no longer manufactured, and apparently you are not people who develop ths list. aware of that, which is tine. But to me, that sort of suggests Regardless of where you are on the position, whether you that maybe you rested upon some input that was not directing be a rural person or an urban person, you have police. The you in the best direction. young lady who stood before, the Representative who stood Mr. RYAN. If the gentleman thinks ths thugh, unless I before and said, we view these as tools and toys, well, I am wrong, this list represents a portion of the list that made up suggest to her that the police officer in her community the Philadelpha ordinance. So that is where the list came fmm understands the substantive nature and that is why they carry that I worked from -the Philadelphia and Pittsburgh ordinanc- firearms - for protection pwposes, to pmtect themselves and es. to protect the people in their community. Mr. WILLIAMS. Correct. They do not have the law enforcement community support- Mr. RYAN. I did not make it up. It came from those ing them; they do not even have the sports clubs wmmunity ordinances. supporting them. All they have are legislators in the middle of Mr. WILLIAMS. If you were working with that list, we the night scunying around for political cover saying, I did would be more than happy to provide you all the assault something; I voted for an assault weapon. I do not care if it is weapons which are on that list which you recognize are not on a toothpick; it looks like an assault weapon, and I voted this list now. Comct? against it, so I am protecting us. Mr. RYAN. I am sorry; I missed that. That is ludicmus, that is underhanded, that is the womt type Mr. WILLIAMS. You said it came from the Philadelpha of politics that can be played on this issue, and if we are going and Pittsburgh ordinance. That Philadelphia and Pittsburgh to do something, let us do something. Let us not try to go ordinance also had other addtional weapons on it. Correct? home and wony about placating people and saying, oh, yeah, Mr. RYAN. Yes. Well, sure. I told you there are only 15 I voted for this on this issue and I voted for these 10 here. There were 45. nonmanufactured assault weapons. I think that that is a bad- Mr. WILldAMS. Well, then if you are suggesting that the That plays on how stupid our constituency can possibly be, 15 you picked are the I5 that we agreed to, 1 am suggesting to how ill informed our constituency possibly are. you that you are not correct, and I am also suggesting to you 1 think we need to stand up and vote on this issue in a very that the 15 you picked in large part, are not even manufac- enlightened manner, and 1 think, unfoxtunately, I stand and tured anymorc, and therefore, the substance or the intent oppose this amendment because it does not represent anything, behind whichever you are trying to achieve, I guess, and that anything. I think if anybody wants to spend any time, including is to make the streets safer, really is a lark and really not the minority leader, wants to spend any substantive time on substantive in nature, and I am not saying that you intentional- this, we can educate him, and we certainly can go to our ly did that. What I am saylng is, if you are tlylng to work Police Commissioner, who would be happy to educate him on from our list, then you need to come to us and get our input on who has been gunned down in Philadelphia. Thank you, Mr. it. Speaker. 2372 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE DECEMBER 15

The SPEAKER. The Chair thanks the gentleman and ous as to make the decisions for the guys out in the street, the recognizes Mr. Phillips on the Ryan amendment. guys like Harold James used to be, the guys like Dave Mr. PHILLIPS. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mayemik used to be that are out in the street having to face A little background on this list. This list was developed by these weapons. Let us ask them to come in here and give us an sportsmen at the quest of the minority leader. They were idea of which weapons ought to be banned and which ought asked which weapons had little use or limited use, and at that not and not trust some sportsmen group to tell us, well, this is request, they came up with this list. I want to make it perfectly a sportsmen group; we compete with this. There are kids out clear that the limited use is for gun collectors and occasionally there competing with them, too, and that is the point. target shooting, and I want to make it perfectly clear, in no This is a very, very short list. It is almost ridiculous voting way is there any support given to this amendment by any for il, but I am going to vote for it because we are saying in sportsmen pup. It is opposed by every sportsmen group, and this amendment that assault weapons ought to be banned, and I have been notified of this. I thnk we have to say that to the people of the Commonwealth I think what we also have to look at in this amendment is of Pennsylvania, and I think we also have to impanel that list, * the registration of weapons. Never in the history of this State that group of State Police officers, of the Attomey General's has a long-gun weapon ever been required to be registered. representatives, of prosecutors across ths State, of sportsmen, This is one area that is very, very much opposed by all our of citizens concerned about violence, get them in a room and sportsmen pups, and I hope that we would consider this. work this issue out, decide which weapons ought to be on the Again, to make it clear, there is no group of sportsmen that list and which ones ought not, and then finally come back here support this piece of legislation. Therefore, I ask for a negative and vote a final amendment that we have a consensus to and vote. that we can get some ageement on. Thank you. The SPEAKER The gentleman from Allegheny County, The SPEAKER The gentleman from Lehigh, Mr. Snyder, Mr. Michlovic, on the Ryan amendment. on the Ryan amendment. Mr. MICHMVIC. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. SNYDER Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, although many members on this floor Mr. Speaker, I share the concerns of many of my col- probably may not have recognized it, we have traveled a long leagues in this House who want to address a problem in this way in the last 2 days. We have come from, if we were to pass Commonwealth hut also do not want to infringe on the rights this amendment, we have come From the original intent of HB of sportsmen and lawful gun owners and collectors in this 185, which was to override all bans of weapons in Pennsylva- Commonwealth. nia, to agreeing that there are certain assault weapons in This amendment, Mr. Speaker, is a product of the legisla- Peqlvania that ought to be banned. The argument now on tive process in that it seeks to reach a compromise to balance the floor is jwl which weapons ought to be on that list. We some of those concerns. I stand here, Mr. Speaker, in support have gone from opposing bans, in the original intent of HB of the amendment, but I would also like to note for the record, 185, to quibbling over what should be the list. Mr. Speaker, that hopefully some of the drafiing errors in this Mr. Speaker, nahually I think the list ought to be signifi- amendment can be clarified and addressed prior to final cantly longer. Mr. Ryan, when he introduced the amendment, passage of HB 185. talked about the horrific-looking weapons that he is outlawing Specifically, Mr. Speaker, let me point out that on the here, that he is banning. I ask you to go through those pages second page of the amendment, there are two definition lhat we put on your desks yesterday and take a look at the sections. One is the definition for "automatic firearm" and the horrific weapons that he is not banning, the ones like the Uzi second is the definition for "semiautomatic firearm," which Carbine that is not banned, the Valmet M-76 that is not banned were canied fonvard from the Michlovic amendment, which with the bananna clip, the Valmet 62s. the Valmet M-78 with was amendment No. A4958. In the Michlovic amendment, the tripod in the front. Take a look at those weapons. We are there were references to automatic and semiautomatic weapons not banning those. We are taking those off the list; we are in the definition of an assault weapon. Those particular taking them off the list. sections have been deleted with this amendment which I would be even more pleased with this amendment- If you specifically defines, by make and model, what is an assault are going to take those weapons off the list and say that we are weapon, and there should be no reference at all to any other taking them of, we do not want to ban them because sports- automatic or semiautomatic firearms to bt: included within this men use them, why not at least register them? My amendment ban. and this amendment has a registration feature with the Com- Also, Mr. Speaker, on page 3 of the amendment, lines 13, missioner of the State Police. We are just taking them off. Do 14, and 15, there is rererence to the words "or lawfully not even bother to register them, so that when a police ofticer possessed a firearm subsequently declared to be an assault pulls up to a house on a domestic, he has no way of knowing weapon under this subchapter." Mr. Speaker, that phrase refers whether there is an assault weapon in that house not with to section 6182 of the prior amendment A4958, which provid- - t this amendment. But this amendment is better tban nothing. ed a pass for determination by the court to add to this list. I think that since we are just arguing about whch weapons As the debate on this measure earlier today noted. the legisla- ought to be on the list, I think we ought not be so presumptu- ture was concerned about granting authority to courts to 1993 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE 2373

legslate what weapons would be banned under this proposal. amendment is a step in the right direction, and I urge you to Therefore, Mr. Speaker, to avoid any confusion that there is a vote "yes" on the Ryan amendment. conflict between persons who lawfully possess these firearms The SPEAKER. The Chair thanks the genueman for his at the time of passage of this act or within 90 days after its brief comment. effective date, they have the right to retain those weapons and The Chair recognizes the gentlelady fmm Philadelphia, Ms. use them for those purposes as set forth in paragraph (c), Manderino, on the Ryan amendment. which allows the use of these guns on your private propelty Ms. MANDERINO. 'Ihank you, Mr. Speaker. and for target range and for shooting pulposes at approved I have stayed out of the debate because there have been shooting clubs. plenty of people who were very passionate about this issue, Therefore, Mr. Speaker, the language that 1 just noted on and I tlunk we have heard a lot of that. But there is one thing page 3, lines 13 through 15, really is superlluous language and that I want to clear up, because even after Mr. Ryan explained should not be interpreted toexclude any other form of firearms it, there seemed to be some confusion of colleagues, at least on that are not specifically mentioned in the definition of "assault my side of the aisle, about what this amendment does or does weapon." not do and what it does or does not do on the issue of preemp Mr. Speaker, with that clarification, 1 can support this tion or primacy. I agree with Mr. Michlovic. I agree with amendment. Representative Evans. 'This is a start and we should support it. Thc SPEAKER. The Chair thanks the gentleman from I do not think it goes far enough, but I applaud the minority Izlugh, and Representative Mihalich from Westmoreland is leader for where he has taken us, at least to this point. recognized. But understand that HI3 185, if it passes on final passage, Mr. MIHA1,ICII. Mr. Speaker, I, too, applaud the minority with or without the amendment in front of us, will still have leader for apparent good faith in trying to resolve avery, very the preemption language in it. So the Ryan amendment- I difficult issue. Many of us feel it does not go far enough, but realize, for those of us from Philadelphia, that if another futm it is a first step. For that reason I will support it. amendment does not come to deal with that issue, that what I hope I can take him at his word when he says that this you do on final passage will be your decision on the issue of list can be amended sometime in the futu~,and 1 think the preemption or primacy, but understand that that is in the members here of good faith ought to sit down and make plans, original HB 185. if this passes, to review this and set up some mechanism to If you vote "no" on the Ryan amendment, not only do you rcview this to see if perhaps something should be added or not get preemption at all for home lule or get rid of the deleted. I think that jvould be a logical step if in fact his preemption for the city of Philadelphia and the city of Pitts- amendment passes. burgh, but you have also lost any opporhinity to at least start I have another observation to make, Mr. Speaker, and 1 on a reasonable list for banning assault weapons in the speak as a modest gun collector, perhaps a little bit more than Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. modest, and a tepid hunter, but l resented very, very much Do not miss this opportunity because you are misplacing remarks made earlier on ths floor from people who perhaps where the issue of primacy is in the bill. It will be in HB 185 referred to other people who do not agree with them as having if we defeat the Ryan amendment. With or without if it is hidden agendas, agendas veiled to go out and steal somebody's going to be there unless a subsequent amendment deals with it. constitutional rights, to han arms. I thnk this rhetoric is But do not miss this opportunity to take our first reasonable inflammatory; it is ill considered, serves no useful purpose, and shot at banning some assault weapons, however small you these kinds of opiluons will never allow diverse opinions on think that list is on a statewide level, and start to move the this floor to come together. I resented that very much, Mr. Commonwealth of Pennsylvania much closer to the sentiments Speaker, and I also resent the fact that these opinions, which of our reasonable constituents. had no relationship to the amendment that we were discussing I urge your support of Mr. Ryan's amendment. at the time, were allowed to be enunciated on this floor. The SPEAKER Mr. Civela and then Mr. McCall on the Members here who announce their intentions to support or Ryan amendment. oppose legislation and they give their motivations for it and Mr. CIVERA. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. they give their reasons for it should be taken at face value; I rise here today to support the Ryan amendment. they should be taken at their word and not attributed to hidden When this entire issue began and we started the debate in motives to take away constitutional rights. 'Thank you, Mr. the General Assembly, I learned much about the weapons that Speaker. are circulated throughout the Commonwealth. 1 am sure that The SPEAKER. The Chair thanks the gentleman. there is not a member on this floor that wants to hurt any The gentleman, Mr. Lawless, from Montgomery County is sportsmen's group or the NRA. recogniztd. My district is Upper Darby Township, which borders the Mr. LAWLESS. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. city of Philadelphia, and the city of Philadelphia, as well as the Mr. Speaker, 1 rise to suppolt the minority leader's amend- city of Pittsburgh, has a problem in controlling those weapons ment. Mr. Ryan has made an effort to ban those weapons that are circulated through those two major cities. whch are not used in a sporting nature. Representative Ryan's 2374 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE DECEMBER 15

This amendment, although it does not go far enough as far liberals. Certainly I am not an urban liberal, and I proved that as weapon control, is a start. As we look at what we have done on the floor of this House on numerous occasions. But for today, the Williams amendment has failed to keep the ordi- representatives of the sportsmen to stand up on the Ryan ,, nances in place in the city of Philadelphia and the city of amendment and oppose it shows that they are not interested at Pittsburgh; the Michlovic amendment has failed. We have all in any type of compromise. We can make any list you want debated this issue for the last 2 days and we have to go home and they are not interested in a compromise. And I would with something as far as those cities are concerned and those submit to you that sooner or later, Mr. Speaker, the law- suburban communities that surround those cities. This is not abiding gun owners and the sportsmen of this Commonwealth the ultimate, this is not the ultimate thing that, you know, we are going to have to make some sacrifices for the rest of tlus say that we are going to control gun wntrol and we are going State. to protect the citizens of those cities and some of those It was said by a few members on the floor here today that suburban communities that surround those cities, hut it is they do not have crimes such as shootings in their district. One .* something; it is something. of my friends here on the floor said, you know, in my area we You know, the other day in my township I happened to be do not have improper discharges of weapons, and I understand talking to a district magistrate, and in front of him that day he that, but I can tell you, Mr. Speaker, that in our area, in my had a 17-year-old boy that had the weapons in the high area, it is the sons and daughters of our constituents and ow school, in Upper Dahy High School, and it goes on and on police officers that are dying, and we have to start sometime and on and on, and although controlling weapons, some of you soon on providing a reasonable restriction on some of these might say, does not really control the issue, we have to start weapons. somewhere. To the members of the other side that are concerned about This amendment is not that bad, Mr. Speaker. It is the this amendment, I would just like to apply some simple beginning of some type of reform that we have to deal with as mathematics. I supported the Michlovic amendment as did legislators in this General Assembly. others; it only received 83 votes. This gives us an opportunity Make no mistake about it. The issue will never go away. to have a ban on some sort of weapons. And 1 would also It will only worsen if we do not stand up and try to address it. submit to you that the Ryan amendment goes further in some Yes, we could try to address it in the courts, and we have tried areas than the ordinance that was proposed and is in place by to do that. I have been in this Assembly for 14 years. We have the city council of Philadelphia. It provides for further penal- sent mandated sentences down. Every type of confrontation ties, more severe penalties, for those that violate these particu- that we have with crime, we have tried to respond. But has it lar provisions. worked? Has it worked the fullest that we have to resort to this For those reasons, Mr. Speaker, I would ask that we type of control? It has not; it has not. support the Ryan amendment. Therefore, I ask you very passionately to support the Ryan The SPEAKER. The gentleman, Mr. Fajt, on the Ryan amendment. Do not make this- You know, whether it was a amendment. Republican idea or whether it was a Democratic idea, it is the Mr. FAIT. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. people of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania's idea. This is I have sat here for the last 2 days and listened to this what we need. I urge you to support the Ryan amendment. debate, and the more I listened, the more aggravated I got. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think most of you know, my voting record in this House The SPEAKER The gentleman, Mr. McCall, and then the is one of moderation, sometimes conservative. On this issue, gentleman, Mr. Taylor. I part company with Lhe conservatives. It has boggled my mind Mr. McCall on the Ryan amendment. how anyone can sit in this chamber and vote against the Mr. McCALL. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Michlovic amendment. I obviously was taught a political Mr. Speaker, I rise in opposition to the Ryan amendment. lesson earlier today. Law-abiding gun owners and sportsmen do not support this Make no mistake about what this Ryan amendment is. It is amendment. However, if Mr. Ryan's language on these a CYA amendment. It is a political maneuver to allow people weapons was included in the definition of "firearm" in the who oppose gun control to go back home and say they are in w Uniform Firearms Act, whereby they would be required to favor of gun control. Make no mistake about what this register these weapons and they would need a license to carry amendment dms. these weapons, I could support it, but without that language in 'he original Michlovic amendment outlawed, banned, 69 the Ryan amendment, I would ask for a "no" vote. different types of semi and automatic weapons. The Ryan The SPEAKER. The gentleman, Mr. Taylor, from Philadel- amendment takes it down to 16. But it is going to let a lot of phia on the Ryan amendment. people in this chamher go home and say, I am in favor of gun Mr. TAYLOR. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. control; I voted for the Ryan amendment. I would like to address a few of the comments that were I am going to vote for the Ryan amendment, but I will tell t made, especially those on my side of the aisle, and start out by you, I am disgusted with it. It is a step in the right direction, saying that those of us that support a reasonable ban have no it is an infinitesimal step in the right direction, and 1 am hidden agenda and people who support it are not urban disappointed that we did not have the courage in this chamber 1993 LEGISLATIVE J( 1UFWAL - HOUSE 2375

today to pass the true gun control amendment, and that was the The SPEAKER. The Chair thanks the gentleman from MicNovic amendment. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Pittsburgh, and Representative Fairchild is recogniml on the The SPEAKER. The Chr thanks the gentleman. Ryan amendment. Mr. Armstrong, on the Ryan amendment. Mr. FAIRCHILD. 'Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. ARMSIRONG. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I was wondering if Representative Ryan or someone with Mr. Speaker, I rise in opposition to this amendment. I am technical knowledge of these guns would stand for a brief very concerned as to the dangerous precedent that we are interrogation? setting. The SPEAKER The gentleman indicates that he will stand We have already heard several members quote by saying, for intel~ogation. Mr. Fairchild may proceed. "Don't miss this chance at our first shot at provi&ng a list," or Mr. RYAN. As soon as he said techcal knowledge, I "We need to add to this list at a future date," or "It's a start in sprung to the microphone, Mr. Speaker. the right direction." I think this should serve as a flag to all of The SPEAKER I was looking for Roger Nick. us to realir~that we are infringing upon that Second Amend- Mr. RYAN. Thank you. He is at my side. ment right in itself and the Constitution. Mr. FAIRCHILD. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. And need I say also to all of us, we have already gone On the technical basis, on the list, I have a question on the farther than our brothers and sisters in Washington, DC, in the gun that is listed as the "M-16 type," and I fully realize that Brady bill. We have far exceeded what they have done. Can M-16's are controlled by the national gun law. They are we not bc satisfied with that attempt at this point? 1 am, and automatic weapons. 1 ask for you to oppose the amendment. Thank you. Mr. RYAN. Mr. Speaker, I am going to yield to Mr. Geist. The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Pittsburgh, Mr. IIe is more familiar with, I think, the individual weapons. Petrone, on the Ryan amendment. Mr. FAIRCHILD. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. PET'KONE. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The SPEAKER The gentleman, Mr. Geist, is recognized. I want to make a few remarks concerning this amendment Mr. GEIST. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. and several other amendments that were introduced today. Could you repeat the question, please? 1 believe it is like going hunting elephants with blanks, Mr. FAIRCHILD. Yes, Mr. Speaker. most of what has occumd. Whether we ban 69 weapons or 15 On the list that is provided in the Ryan amendment, there or 13, the number is not imporlant. The key issue is, it does is a listing of an "M-16 type." All the other weapons are listed not make even nonsense to have 50 States in this Nation with by specific name and number, but my specific question is, 50 different laws in each State, hundreds of communities with what is meant by "M- 16 type"? That is not a specific manufac- their own laws, and different laws, governing the control of turer's model and number. weapons. We all know that these weapons, the majority were Mr. GEIST. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. made for military purposes and sent abroad by our government If I were listing the weapon, it would be listed only as the in support of military operations around the world, and now "M-16," which is currently an illegal weapon because it is an they a~ coming back to our shores in droves. automatic-fire weapon. If the M-I6 type would be in any way If we pass a law in Pennsylvania, it is not going to help if construed to mean AR-15, then that would not be correct, the laws are different in the Carolinas or the Dakotas. We because that is a semiautomatic weapon that is used- It is know that the Federal Government has passed the Brady bill. probably the second most popular match weapon in the State We all must live by it. Law-abiding citiztns and gun owners of Pennsylvania. So I would believe that that "M-16 type" can live with it. I~gitimate people can live with a 5-day means only Mly automatic in intent. waiting period, and until our Federal Government passes a Mr. FAIRCHILD. Is the intent of the legislation then, if comprehensive uniform firems code dealing with these there is a legally and IawFully owned automatic weapon that is weapons, this problem will continue to occur regardless of licensed through the Federal process-and I think everyone in what the designation of the rifle is, regardless of what the this room knows what is involved in that process, and there designation of the weapon is. Presently, the biggest influx of has never been a legal crime or a crime committed by legally guns to our shores is coming from the Russian Govemment owned automatic weapons since the enactment of the gun who is in &re need of hard cash and they are selling these laws-pertaining to that, that we would not have two sets of weapons all over the world. laws here, one Federal concerning M-16 and one State It is my belief that the sportsmen of this country, the conceming M-16? outdoorsmen, the true gun owners, have got to make it known Mr. GEIST. Mr. Speaker, could you repeat the question? If to our Congressmen and Senators in Washington what they can 1 understand right, are you asking the specific question, in this live with and that our Federal Government has got to pass a case, would the BATF (Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and law that is uniform in all 50 States that we all can live with. Firearms) regulations have primacy over this regulation? Is that Until that is done, we are just hunting elephants with blanks, what the question is? and that is the simple fact. lhank you. Mr. FAIRCHILD. Concerning that- Mr. GEIST. The type 16? Mr. FAIRCHILD. Yes. 2376 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE DECEMBER 15

Mr. GElST. Did I understand that right? anybody in any of these amendments to cover fully automatic Mr. FAIRCIIILD. Yes; that is the question. weapons, which are covered by the Federal Government and, Mr. GEIST. One second until I consult with the legal 1 might add, covered very well. t eagles here. Mr. RYAN. Mr. Speaker? Mr. Speaker, I have been told and led to understand that if The SPEAKER. The gentleman, Mr. Ryan, is recogtuzed. the State passes a law that is tougher than the BATF ngula- Mr. RYAN. Mr. Speaker, the wording "M-16" found there lion, then the State of Pennsylvania's law would have primacy. was taken from the Michlovic amendment-I apologize to the Mr. FAIRCHILD. Well then, would you please explain gentlemmnot from the Philadelphia ordinance. exactly what an "M-16 type" is, because now you are hopping The intention is, the M-I6 weapon, the type is the fully into a whole different category of weapons controlled by the automatic weapon. It is not intended to cross over that banier BATF laws enacted in the 1930's and in the 1968 gun law. into the type 15. I do not know whether that answers your Mr. GEIST. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. question. It is in- The list, Mr. Speaker, the list was reviewed I agree with that also, and if this record ever becomes a by people who had the best interests of the sportsmen of test in wurt, I think that this conversation may in some way Pennsylvania at heart, and they identified the M-16 as a type guide a decision. But the intent of that amendment the way I weapon that is seldom used by sportsmen. I am sure they did read it and in listening to Mr. Ryan's explanation and others is, not mean the type that you are concerned about, because that, only the automatic weapon that is already the M-16 is regulat- as Mr. Geist has identified it, is one that is well known and ed. frequently used by sportsmen. So the legislative intent is Mr. FAIRCHILD. Mr. Speaker, would you say that again? clearly that of the "M-16," quote, end quote. Concerning the M-16 type. Mr. FAIRCHILD. Was it your intent, Mr. Speaker, to Mr. GEIST. I believe that ''type" in this instance refers include any automatic weapon already covered by BATF? only to the specific M-16, not the AR-15 and not any of the Mr. KYAN. Some of these-I am not sure-some of these sporting weapons that are currently used and shot throughout weapons, Mr. Speaker, are weapons that already are precluded the State of Pennsylvania. from importation into the United States by the Federal Govem- These weapons, as you well know, the AR-15, there are ment. I believe some of them are weapons that are already hundreds of thousands of those in use in the State of Pennsyl- prohibited by the Federal Government under that set of rules. vania today, and I do not think in any way that these weapons Mr. FAIRCHILD. Okay. But, Mr. Speaker, I do not want at all fall under the "type M-16" as this amendment is written, to give a leadmg question, but every weapon identified on all although, although, that may be where you are taking this. I of these lists are semiautomatic rapid-fire weapons, and the M- would hope that "M-16" only means M-16 and "type" would 16 type, 1 understood, they included those, for lack of a better mean any M-16 that is fully automatic. I would hope that is word, Singapore look-dikes that look like the M-163, that fire the definition that we are looking at. semiautomatic, and I have not talked to anyone yet that Mr. FAIRCHILD. Well, then we have a conflict here. Mr. intended to jump into the new arena of already controlled Ryan said that he obtained this list from the sportsmen's club Federal firearms, which are controlled by the Federal Firearms and the list generated by Philadelphia and Pittsburgh and the Act. NRA, and the M-16 is not on that list. Mr. RYAN. I do not know that this is responsive, but under Mr. GEIST. 1 am sorry, Mr. Speaker. I am having a hard an ideal situation we probably would piggyback onto the time hearing up here. I am really having a had time. Federal BATF rules and regulations. That would solve an The SPEAKER The gentleman may proceed. awful lot of problems. However, that is not possible at the Mr. FAIRCHILD. Mr. Ryan indicated that he used the list moment. The intent is, as I explained earlier, it is not our from Pittsburgh and Philadelphia and the Michlovic amend- intention to interfere with the lawful use of what is known ment list. Is that correct? today as the M-15 weaponry, and 1 do not know how else to Mr. GEIST. The list that was put together in this amend- say that. ment was put together last night by a group of advocates who Mr. FAIRCIIILD. ?hank you, Mr. Speaker. know these weapons inside and out. Whether the word "type" I would like to make a brief statement. '.s or "M-16" and how it was used, I do not know, but this list of The SPEAKER. 'Ihe gentleman is in order and should weapons did come from advocates who were present in a proceed. meeting with Paul Dunkelherger. Mr. FAIRCIIILD. Mr. Speaker, this whole debate has Mr. FAIRCHILD. Well, we certainly have conflicting deteriorated into one of hype, one of misunderstanding, and it testimony then, Mr. Speaker, because Mr. Ryan indicated that is frustrating, I am sure, for both sides of the issue to try to this was the list of weapons that were banned in Pittsburgh, separate fiction from fact, what is right and what is wrong, and banned in Philadelphia, andlor the NRA list. An M-I6 type is I think perhaps Representative Ryan's amendment speaks to on there, but M-16 is not. What I am trying to get to is please that issue on the technical basis. b define "M-16 type," because if you are going to say "M-16 We are here today to try to work out a solution and a type," you are going to jump into a whole new realm of compromise that is going to help everyone. When we do not automatic weapons, and I do not think it was the intent of know the difference between already controlled weapons-and 1993 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE 2377 this law has been in effect since 1968, and there is not a law assault weapons that are on the list. And since out of his own enforcement officer in Pennsylvania or the United States who words he never had an opportunity to talk to the folks who are says that that law does not work-hut when we start to say that the sportsmen involved in this hut to his staff, it would be we do not know whether it is included or it may be included, behooving to find out whether or not he also has talked to his this is wrong. People deserve better than that. If we cannot do staff about expanding that list so that more assault weapons any better than hs, I suggest we all go home. Thank you, Mr. can be on that list, particularly since we are dealing with an Speaker. issue that maintains itself with respect to people who are being The SPEAKER. 'The Chair recognizes the gentleman, Mr. shot down and killed in the street by these assault weapons. Richardson, from I'hiladelplua. Rut to take the list and shorten if to make it appear as though ARer Mr. kchardson, the gentleman, Mr. Flick, and then we have reached some art of compromise tonight at this Mr. Preston. eleventh hour indicates to me that it is only a matter now of Mr. KICHAKDSON. 'Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. politics; that it does not have anythmg at all to do with assault Mr. Speaker, I want to first say that we have been ha4 we weapons and where you really stand. I already know that there have been took, and we have been misled once again. It are splits on both sides and with the NRA on this matter now always amwxs me of the condescending attitude and manner and that there is a lot of confusion about where people need to in which one rises to speak on this floor but uses a kind of be. aloof attitude to make it appear a. though we do not know But it is very clear to me that back home, that certainly in what is going on or we are trying to leam. Montgomery County and Bucks and Berks and Chester and Earlier today we had an opportunity to vote very specifical- Delaware that are very close to Philadelphia and smunding ly on banning assault weapons in the Commonwealth of counties that are close to Phi!adelphia this is a very serious, Pennsylvania. That was clear, outright, and concise and hard vote, because a lot of the assault weapons, and under- precise, but now at 10 minutes to 5, we now have an amend- stand, the manufacturers, these folks, are in particular parts of ment that would make us think that we are really voting on this Commonwealth. We do not manufacture any guns, but what we voted on this morning in terms of an assault weapon they wind up in the hands of young people in the streets who ban, because now we have attached to it certain numbers to do not manufacture and who do not make them, but somebody make it appear as though we are really voting on an assault gets it to them. Nobody said anwng about the manufacturers, weapon amendment. And I believe that the press does not need because we are not really concerned about the manufachmrs. to be duped any longer into thinking that this will go out They are not African-Americans or minorities that are manu- across the headlines tomormw that "House votes on assault facturers of these guns, hut yet and still, they try to turn it weapon ban," and then maybe in the small, little print you are mund and say that it is a black issue. Well, it is not one. It is going to find something that is going to indicate that there an issue of death for all people. were only 14 or so assault weapons that we actually banned, Assault weapons do not have any names on those bullets so that we could save face for some members here today, and when they are fired. They can kill anybody, and I think that it the distinguished gentleman who spoke earlier indicated that it is time that we deal specifically with recognizing what this was called CYA. amendment really is. It is a way to try to cover all of those It is very clear to me that there was no intent at all to try persons who this morning voted "no" so the headlines tomor- to resolve this matter when we first begged not to bring this row will read that they voted 'yes" on some form of assault matter up until there could be a compromise. But no, the weaponry so that they can be protected back home in their insistence was we want it now and we are going to do legislalive district. whatever we have Lo do to ram it down your throats. And now I think it is about time that we hit the issue head-on. Let us that the time has come to see that the victory was not as sweet go back and revert to the Michlovic amendment, and let us see as they wanted it, now they want it their way so they can go whether or not you still stand on your same position. back and then protect themselves in their home districts by You see, to say to get a little hit and then not understand saying, we voted against some assault weapon?, and tmst me, what the little bit actually means is another fault of what I call we were really out front on that. subterfuge, subterfuge in terms of keeping you blind on an Well, I think the press needs to make sure that it is clear issue; giving you part tmth or a little bit of the truth or that you cannot have it both ways. You cannot have it in the bending the truth in some way, shape, or form to make it morning being against assault weapons, then in the aflemoon appear as though I am really on your side, but 1 am really not saying, well, we took a little hit, and then vote against an on your side, and 1 think that that clarification tonight needs to amendment that will expand that, afler speaking to Commis- be had very readily if we in fact understand what this amend- sioner Neal and the deputy police commissioner of the ment does. Philadelphia Police Ilepanment who indicated that they had a If they really are sincere about assault weapons and ban of about 54 that Representative Eva~has in an amend- banning them, Representative Evans' amendment expands that ment. 1 ,am wondering whether or not the dtstinguished list to about 54. As the police commissioner in Philadelphia gentleman who offers the amendmcnt will also vote in favor says, these are the weapons that are being used in the city of of the Evans amendment that will also expand the list of Philadelphia; these are the weapons being used in Pittsburgh 2378 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE DECEMBER 15

and being transported to Delaware County, Berks, Bucks, The SPEAKER. The gentleman, Mr. Preston, from Pitts- Chester, and the like, so that nobody will have a misunder- burgh on the Ryan amendment. standing about where these assault weapons are being tm- Mr. PRESTON. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. ported and what they are being used for. Will the maker of the amendment stand for interrogation? t You see, it is one thing to talk about traveling through the The SPEAKER. The Chair apologizes to Mr. Preston. The Commonwealth of Pennsylvania to go to a sports event, but it gentleman, Mr. Ryan, will be with you momentarily in order is another thing when you are talking about the gangland-style to respond to your questions. shootings and murders that are taking place throughout the The gentleman may proceed. entire Commonwealth, and it does not have any germaneness Mr. RYAN. I apologi7e. Mr. Speaker. as to where a person can wind up with these assault weapons The SPEAKER No problem. and wind up shooting or killing somebody. Mr. PRESTON. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. In that vein, Mr. Speaker, I am very reluctant and very Can you tell me, other than the number of weapons, what concerned that the matter of this issue gets recorded on the is the difference between yours and the Michlovic amendment? record properly. I am voting against the Ryan amendment, Mr. RYAN. We obviously, as we have discussed at great because there is not a real ban on assault weapons here in the length, reduced the nwnber of weapons that are on the list. Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. It is a smokescreen. You are familiar with that, of course. The other thing we did The SPEAKER. The gentleman, Mr. Flick, then the is, as I mentioned earlier, we changed the method whereby that gentleman, Mr. Preston. list is expanded. Under the Michlovic amendment, as I recall, Mr. FLICK. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. it was done on the recommendation of the Commissioner of I will be vely brief, and I do not think anyone is going to the State Police, who would petition4 may be off on some of listen to me, so I am going to speak to the young ladies in my terminology-but the Commissioner of thc State Police front of me. would petition the Commonwealth Court, who would approve For the record, I think the personal attacks on the gentle- or disapprove the addition of weapons to the list, and that man from Delaware County are unfounded. I spoke with that would effectuate an expansion of the list. That was removed gentleman last night. 1 encouraged him to come up with a list the effect of which would be to turn over to the General of weapons that the entire chamber could support. I do not Assembly the expansion of the list by us introducing a bill and understand why some of the individuals from the Philadelphia changing it from 15 to 20 to 30 to 40 to 2 to 3, whatever we and Pittsburgh areas are chastising the Republican leader. The in our wisdom decide to do. lhey m the changes that were MichIovic amendment did not pass; therefore, that list of made. weapons is not before us. I sometimes find it amusing up here in Harrisburg that the CONSTITUTIONAL POINT OF ORDER intellect is my way or no way. You have here before you a number of weapons which are considered to be very dangerous Mr. PRESTON. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. and which we should not see in the hands of ordinary people May I comment on the amendment and make a motion? and they should be registered and they should be controlled. The SPEAKER. The gentleman is in order and may Now, Mr. Speaker, if the individuals who wish to see the proceed. Philadelphia and Pittsburgh ordinances remain intact feel they Mr. PRESTON. I have always taken, again, as I said cannot support this amendment, then quite possibly they will earlier, this House very seriously, and I have always tried to be get nothing. very consistent with what I have tried to do and how I voted I came here last week with the thought of supporting our and to be support. two sister cities of Pittsburgh and Philadelphia, because I felt Earlier today we took two separate, different votes from a there was a problem with violence and in those cities motion made by a gentleman. and I am still raising the and we in Harrisburg should not OV~,.,,,~~ their attempt to question, and I am going to ponder this a little bit more. control that crime and violence, and as debate went on and I Therefore, I am going to raise the question of constitutionality conc"ng the Ryan amendment. saw the list and I saw the pictures of the weapons that were in b the Michlovic amendment, I felt that, you know, we really The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Pittsburgh has raised sbuld be controlling these weapons statewide. I supported the the issue of constitutionality on the Ryan amendment. MichIovic amendment and I intend to support the Ryan The Parliamentarian advises me that the gentleman should and 1 probably will support the E~~~~amendment, make reference, if at all possible, to what section of the but I think that we have to look at the overall picture here, Constitution or on what basis he is questioning the constitu- Speaker, and it cannot be just my way or no way. tionality of the amendment. I urge the Representatives from the two major cities of the Mr. PRESTON. The same basis that my good friend across Commonwealth to think long and hard about this the aisle, Mr. Cannon made about the right to be able to bear and support it, and if this list becomes added to later in the day -2 and hope that, One way Or another, we or evening, well, then support that. satisfy this question one way or another and that members will Mr. Speaker, thank you for your time. kindly try to be consistent with their standing. LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE

It was a very serious question as 1 tried to raise the issue, The following roll call was recorded: and all I can see, as 1 a5ked the question from the gentleman, is that there was not any significant difference in hs amend- ment versus the Michlovic amendment, and the issue about Adolph Durham Lawless Roebuck raising and the right to be able to bear arms still exists within Allen Evans Led- hn~ Argall Fainhild Lee Rde~ my mind, and that is the reason why I have raised the question Baker Fajt Leswvitz Rudy as far as constitutionality. Barley Fanner Levdaosky Ryan I noticed when I asked the gentleman before that, the Banido Fishter Lucylr Santoni Bebko-Jones nick Maodenno sa"""m gentleman voted against the Michlovic amendment as far as it Beladi Fmn Mffiehan Semmel being not constitutional, and I do not see the difference other Bisbv Garmoo McNelly Wni than maybe the State Police or whatever, so therefore, I really Blawn Gedach Melio Snyder, D. W. do not know the answer to the question, and I would like the Butkovitz Gididli Miohlovic Stabck Buxtan Gladsk Mic-e Stairs body to be able to decide whether this amendment is constitu- Callagimne Godshall Mibalich Steelman tional or not. Cappabianca Halush Miller Steil Cam Harley Mudy Stetler On the question, Carone Hasay MW~Y Shlrla Will the House sustain the constitutionality of the amend- Cawley Hennessey Nickol Taylor. E. 7.. ments? Cessar Herman O'Brien Taylor, J. Chaduick Henbey Oliver Thorn The SPEAKER. 'lhe gentleman, Mr. Ryan, on constitution- Civera Hess Penel Tigue Clymer Hughes Pesci Todinson ality. Cohen, M. Itkin Pe(moe Trello Mr. RYAN. 'Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Colafella James Penil Trich Mr. Speaker, .as I remember the learned remarks of the Conti Josephs Phillips Uliana Camell Kaiser Pistella Van Home distinguished jurist from Delaware County, the Honorable Comigan Keller Pins ViMi Thomas Gannon, on the question of constitutionality, his Cowell Kenney Preston Washington remarks dealt with the reasonableness of the bill. The amend- Cw Kirkland Raymond Williams ment that I am offering is reasonable. 'lhe one that was before DeLusa Krebs Reinard Wogan Dent Kukovicb Richardson wnght, M. N you before was unreasonable. Donatucn Laub Rilta yandnswits The SPEAKER. Mr. I'reston on constitutionality. Dmse Laughlin Mr. PRESTON. I would sincerely like to ask the gentleman tin what variables, if he could givc it to me either denotatively or quantitatively, his theorem as far as wkat is reasonable and Amstrong George Mayemik .%em to be able to prove what is reasonable and what is not. Belfanti Gordner McCall Stish Bimlin Gmitur men^ strillmaner The SPEAKEK. The gentleman, Mr. Ryan. Bops GNW ailo or Surra Mr. RYAN. Reasonableness is a subjective-type thing. It is Brow Hanna NYQ~ Tan@ not objective. It is not really something that you can measure Bunt Hutchinson Piccola Tme the way you measure distance or the way you measure speed. Clark Jadlouis Plans Tulh Cola- Iamlin Roberts Vanse You measure it in your heart, in your stomach, how it feels. COY Ka-c Robinson Veon In the case of the amendment that was before us earlier Daley King Rohra Waugh where there was pretty much a carte blanche prohibition Dem~se~ LaCmtta Sather Wmoisk R against the use of certain weapons which, to the knowledge of Dehy Leh Saylor Wright, D. Egolf Lloyd SEheetz Yewcic almost every member of this General Assembly, were being Fargo Lpch Schula zug used.~-~ ~ bv the vast maioritv". of Pennsvlvania suortsmen that Fee MaNaod Scrimenti seemed unreasonable to me to think that this would be pleade Markosek Smith, B. DeWeese. Cede Marsico Smith, S. H. spenka constitutional. To do the same thing, to reasonably regulatewe GRst Masland Sleighnor are not confiscating; we are reasonably regulating those that are not used for that purpose-seems reasonable to me, and I NOT VOTING-I think that is the dfference, in my judgment. It is a subjective ~b measure. The SPEAKEK. Onconstitutional~ty. those whobelieve that EXCUSED-7 the Ryan amendment is constitutional will vote "aye"; those costa cohen, L. I. OIasz Rieger who believe the Ryan amendment is unconstitutional will vote O'Donoell Petrarca "no." On the question rzcuning, The majority having voted in the affirmative, the question will the H~~~~ sustain the constitut,o~ityof amend. was determined in the affirmative and the constitutionality of ments? the amendments was sustained. 2380 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE DECEMBER 15

On the question recurring, Living in the city of Allentown, we had an incident last Will the House agree to the amendments? week. which was mentioned earlier by Representative Ritter, where somebody, apparently a deranged individual, took an Tbe SPEAKER The gentleman, Mr. Battisto, from Mom AR-I5 and shot up a parking lot outside a barroom. Several County. Does the gentleman seek to debate the Ryan amend- people were injured. Fortunately, no one was killed. But it is ment? The gentleman indicates he does, and he is recognized for the people like this for whom we must provide some relief for the purpose of debating the Ryan amendment. and show them that we do care about them and that they are Mr. BATITSTO. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. victims of crime and that this legislature, this Mouse, will do Mr. Speaker, I rise in support of the Ryan amendment. The something to protect them and their interests. Ryan amendment recognizes the principle that primacy should Again, I rise in support of the Ryan amendment. I think remain with the State, and I think that is an important princi- this is a good compromise, it is a start, and let us support him. ple. Thank you. Secondly, he has done something that I have been groping to try to accomplish, and that is to say, I have talked to many sportsmen and asked them, which assault weapons have no VOTE CORRECTION lawful purpose? Let us admit it, there are some. I have looked The SPEAKER We are gening near the end. The gentle- at various lists. I am not an expert, and he admits he is not an man, Mr. Reber, and then finally, the gentleman, Mr. Williams, expert. There are some experts in this House though, I take it. for the second time. The fact of the mitter is, he made a great attempt to put some Mr. Reber is recognized on the Ryan amendment. people together who are supposedly experts, and they sat Mr. REBER. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. down, apparently, to try to ascertain which of these weapons Mr. Speaker, I do not want to add to the debate. I just want have no lawful purpose. The list is reduced from Representa- to correct the record. tive Michlovic's list simply because, I believe, they were very On the constitutionality vote of the Ryan amendment, 1 was conservative about their determination, but the fact is, it is a in my seat. I vressed mv switch. It did not operate. If it did beginning. It is a list of weapons that seems to say, these have ope& correctly, it w&ld have indicated on the board a no lawful purpose for sportsmen. Therefore, let us do the right flashing yellow- No. Excuse me; excuse me. The debate has thing and support that amendment, because he is beginning to begun to diminish my thought process. It would have been red. try to do something which we have not been able to do in this Thank you. House, and that is to grope with a problem that seems to cause The SPEAKER The gentleman's thought process is so a great division between the iw;ll legislators and the urban substantial that any diminution is hardly negligible. legislators. I think I recognize, very sensitively, the problems of urban CONSIDERATION OF HB 185 CONTINUED areas. At the same time, I respectfully represent constituents who really have a very conservative outlook toward this whole The SPEAKER The gentleman, Mr. Williams, for the issue. Therefore, I believe, I believe we should look closely at second time on the Ryan amendment. the Ryan amendment, look at what he has tried to do. At least Mr. WULIAMS. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. he is trylng with a beginning. I have listened intently to this debate this evening. I think One of the other things he does, he leaves discretion with it has been quite productive, and I have learned a great deal the General Assembly. If this list is to be deleted or added to, myself, personally. it is the General Assembly's prerogative, and I think that is People have approached me off the flm from both sides very important. of the aisle and explained to me that if I Wywant to remove Therefore, I urge us to vote for the Ryan amendment. these weapons from our community, we have to begin at some Thank you. point in time. Even though I must explain to you that I still The SPEAKER The gentleman, Mr. Dent, is recognized. reselve some of the concerns I had with regard to the maker Mr. DENT. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. of the amendment's particular items that he lists-I certainly do I rise in support of the Ryan amendment. not believe that it goes far enough-if I am to stand here and t I, too, voted for the Michlovic amendment. 1 think it is certainly be consistent, as people have asked me to be, if one imperative that we try to bring some common sense to this gun is removed from our community, then we have made some issue and set down some reasonable restrictions and in some progress. I still have the concerns of Philadelpkra County with cases bans of certain weapons. regard to its own issues in terms of allowing an ordinance such As I reviewed the list provided to me by Mr. James and as it has adopted to stand. I believe that the general thrust of Mr. Michlovic, one hit me right across the face as if it were a HB I85 is incorrect with regard to its removing that, hut crowhar, and that was the "Striker 12 (Street Sweeper) certainly, Mr. Ryan's attempt at constructing a list of any Shotgun (domestic)," and I have to ask myself the question, assault weapons apparently is a step in the right direction, and who are we trying to sweep from the streets with such a I do not want anybody to believe that politics would separate weapon? I guess only the manufacturer of that particular me from my commitment to removing these wcapons from my product knows the answer to that question. community. LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE

Some people have suggested to me that it is personal. I do I have listened to the debate also, and I may have learned not want to apologize for it being personal. It is personal. It is a few things, but I certainly have not learned enough about any personal when anybody in my community is threatened with of these specific weapons to say that this is a good amend- these weapons. It is personal when anybody in my community ment, to say that we should move fodin any direction. In is killed with these weapons. But I do not want anyone to retrospect, we should have recommitted; in retrospect, we believe that politics would prevent me from supporting the should have postponed this, because when we try to deliberate removal of any of these weapons. a bill of this magnitude on the floor of the House, we are not So 1 have to suggest to you that through my listening, really learning anything more about what is going into it. through my discussions, 1, too, can be educated, and therefore, This is the ~ongtime; this is the wrong amendment. I I would stand in supwrt,.. regardless- of the motivations, in urge its defeat. Thank you. support of removing any of these and cenainly all of those On the question retuning, which are included in Mr. Ryan's amendment. Will the House agree to the amendments? The SPEAKER. The Chair thanks the gentleman. 'fie gentleman, Mr. Stairs, and finally the gentleman, Mr. The following roll call was recorded: Masland, on the Ryan amendment. Mr. Stairs from Westmoreland. YEAS-I01 Mr. STNR5. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Adolph Fajt Lawless Roebuck 1 stand at this time to commend Representative Ryn for Banido Farmer Ladera Rmw Bebko-Jones Fichter Lee Rubley offering this amendment. The last couple days we have been Bishop Flick Lwdnnsky Rudy going back and forth, and certainly, Representative Ryan is Bla"", Free- Manderino Ryan looking for a common ground that we can address this very Butkovitz Gsnnon McGeehan Ssotoni Saafini serious problem. I feel that his amendment addresses the Bwrton Gerlach McNally Caltagimoe Gladeck Melio Snyder, D. W. concerns of sportsmen and those who use guns as recreation Cappabiaoca Halush Michlovlc Shin and certainly, they will be able to purchase guns, and these Cam Harley Micome Stbl people are law-abiding citizens, and why should they be Camne Hasay Mihalich Stdler penalized for climes committed by others. Certainly, the cities Cawley Hemessey Mller Studa Cessar Hershey Mmdy Taylor, E. Z. that have concerns with the violence and the assault weapons, Civera Hughes Murphy Taylor, J. their needs are addressed. Cohen. M. Itkin O'Brien nomas So 1 think we are looking at a political answer to this very Colafella James Oliver Tigue Conti Josephs Pal Tomlimn difticult question. Both sides can agree to a compromise, and Camell Kaim Petrone T.ch I cenainly gladly support ths and commend Mr. Ryan for his corngao Keller Peltit Van Hme foresight in oKering this amendment. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Cowell Kemey RWla Vitali The SPEAKER. The Chair thanks Mr. Stairs, and the curry Kirkland Pit@ Washington Dent Krebs Plans William gentleman from Carlisle, Mr. Masland, is recognized on the Donatucci Kukovich Raymond Wogao Ryan amendment. Druce Laub Reinard Wright, M. N. Mr. MASLAND. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Dwham h@in Rim Yandiswits Mr. Speaker, I rise to oppose the Ryan amendment. Evans Mr. Ryan said early on that he does not really know NAYS-95 anything about these gum; he does not know anything about Allen Gamble Msrsico Smith, B. these weapons. Well, maybe, maybe there should be some Argall Gba Masland Smith, S. H. weapons that should he banned hut cenainly not today and Armrtrong George ~a*k Stabask certainly not by this amendment. Baker Giglidti McWl Steel- We already know from Mr. Snyder that there are drafling Badey Godshall MW staphner Belardi Gordner Nailor Slem errors. We already know, thanks to Mr. Fairchild, that there are Belfaoti G~im Nick01 Stish errors of ambiguity. What kinds of M-16's are included? What Birmelin GNFP N~ce S1"Umatter is actually covered? The answer to that question was given Haons Ped Surra Brown Herman Phillip Tanmi very succinctly by Representative Fajt. What is covered here? Bunt Hess Piccola Trello Well, we do not know what kinds of weapons, but we do Chsdwick Hurshioson PRstoo Tme know what is being covered. Clark Jadlowiec Reber Tulli We are flying by the seat of our pants today, Mr. Speaker, Clymer Jamlin Richardson Uliana Kasuolc RobeIIs vmce and if this is the way the legislative process is supposed to Colacnm COY King Robinson Vmn work, then it is hrokcn. If this amendment is the result of Daley LaGmtta Rohrer Wad consultation, if this amendment were the result of some DeLuca I.4 Sather Womiak thoughtful processes going into it, then possibly I could Dew Lesovitz Same Wright, D. R Detmody Lloyd Saylor YRvnc support it, but it is wocfully short of the consultative process. Egolf Lucyk Ssb& Zug Fairchild Lynch Sshuler 2382 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE DECEMBER 15

Fargo Maitland Scnmenti Dew-, brief. Ecclesiastes-I do not remember what the particular verse Fee Markoaek Semi Spker Fleade is in Ecclesiastes-"Let thy words be brief." Mr. RYAN. Mr. Speaker? NOT VOTING4 I The SPEAKER. Ecclesiastes has been auoted Mr. Ryan, you are recognized. EXCUSED-7 Mr. RYAN. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Aco* Cohen. L. I. Olara Rieger Mr. Speaker, this has been a strange day. We started the Bush O'Donnell Petrarca day off making the recommendation to the majority leader that this bill go into committee, that it be studied. That was not The question was determined in the affirmative, and the acceptable. Then later on in the day, the recommendation was amendments were agreed to. made by the majority leader that it -go into committee and that it be studied, &d that was not acceptable to me. Now I am On the question recurring, saying, why are we going to wait? I understand what the Will the House concur in Senate amendments as amended? gentleman, Mr. Evans' amendment is, is really an explosion of The SPEAKER The gentleman from Philadelphia, Mr. the first amendment that we had, where we are adding back in Evans, is recognized for an amendment, which the clerk will another 30 or 40 weapons to the first amendment. We are read. going to have a rerun. You are not going to get out of here Mr. GEIST. Mr. Speaker? without 3 or 4 more hours of debate, in my judgment. The SPEAKER. The clerk will desist momentarily. I am prepared at this time to make a motion that the hill be The gentleman from Blair, Mr. Geist, seeks recognition. recommitted to the Game and Fish Commission-Fish Commis- For what purpose does the gentleman rise? sion would be better-Committee, unless the majority leader Mr. GEIST. Mr. Speaker, just a question of the Chair, wants to have a little sidebar conference. I have no problem, please. I have no problem putting it in Rules, dependent on the The SPEAKER The gentleman will offer the question. following: I think the Rules Committee could be the custodian, Mr. GEIST. The snow out west is getting much deeper. In if you will, of this bill until such time as we put together an ad Greene County it is probably about 10 inches deep now, and hoc committee, if you will, or formalia it by resolutiowit I do not know how deep it is on the floor of the House right does not matter-with representatives of Game and Fish, now, but how much longer do you think us people that have representatives of Judiciary, Local Government, and Urban to drive west are going to have to be detained in this debate? Affairs, and have those 4 committees or 5, if the majority The SPEAKER I think the pronoun is "we." leader wants a fifth4 mean, it does not matter to me; 3, 4, I would have to speculate that the majority leader would 5-and let those 6, 8, or 10 people report back to this floor in have a more definitive pempective than I would regarding the the middle of January with a proposal. floor schedule. Now, there are going to be hard feelings, I suspect, one Is the gentleman, Mr. Itkin, in the hall of the House? The way or the other. We are both kind of even with each other gentleman is in his seat. The gentleman will please note the now, are we not? So let us quit while we all have kind of a question of the gentleman from Blair. smile or a grimace on our face, as the case may be. We are Will the gentleman, Mr. Cessar, yield momentarily. going to stay here another 3 hours, and people are going to get The majority leader, Mr. ltki~has been inquired of. upset. Now, why do we not put this bill away and let cooler Mr. ITKIN. Mr. Speaker, it is my understanding that there heads and smarter heads prevail? willbe one more amendment to HB 185 offered this evening, I listened and I did not like it-let me tell you that-1 did not and that will be an amendment by Mr. Evans. Afler that, I like it when one of my own members plays hack to me the hope that I will have the Republican leader's cooperation in tune that I started on the turntable when I admitted I did not asking to table the bill for the time being, until we come back, know what I was doing. I only do that rhetorically. I do not so that we can proceed with what I had said about 3 hours ago, really believe that. I do not expect you to play it back to me to see whether we can come up with some agreed-to, thought- that 1 do not know what 1 am doing. He does not know what 11 package of amendments to make this thing good for he is doing. But we do not know what we are doing right now Pennsylvania. because we are all preoccupied with the idea of getting out of Afler we do that, if the Republican leader is agreeable and here. We do not know what amendments are anywhere. the Republican Caucus will support me in that, we have a few I think, Mr. Majority Ixader, let us call it a day. We are other things we have to deal with. I am trying to eliminate not going to make a bit of difference in this world by staying from the calendar, the active calendar, the most contentious here and doing Mr. Evans' amendment. Mr. Evans knows it. pieces of legislation, but there are certain bills that it is my Come on, Mr. Appropriations Committee Chairman, give us all intention to move forward. a break. I would just urge members not to debate these issues The SPEAKER. The gentleman, Mr. Ccssar, has been t anymore unless they feel compelled to do so, and if they do polite enough to yield. The gentleman is now recognized. For feel a compelling reason to debate, that they let their words be what purpose does the gentleman rise? LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE

Mr. CESSAR Mr. Speaker, I would like to make a motion, Dent Laub Reston W0g.n but I will defer to the gentleman for- If he is going to run his Laugblin Reioad Woeniak ~E:X Lawless Richardson YRvcic amendment, I will make the motion. flmce Are you going to run your amendment? The SPEAKER. 7'he gentleman, Mr. Evans, is going to NAYS-75 comment, and the gentleman is yielding. Adolph Ganooo Nickol Steil Mr. EVANS. I would like to comment in support of what Amstrong Geist N~ce Stw Baker Gerlach 0%"- %lm Mr. Cessar is going to suggest. I am going to support what Mr. Barley Godshall Penel Striltmatter Cessar is going to suggest. I support h~sparticular position, Belardi Oordoer Phillips Shrrla and once he states that position, then 1 would like to run my Blaum Gluppo Pitts Taylor, E. Z. amendment, but I support Mr. Cessar. Boyes Hanoa Plans TiGe Bun1 Hershey Raymond Tomlinsoo lhe SPEAKER. Have you had some dialogue with the Carone Hutchinson Reber Tme gentleman from Allegheny? Cawley Jadlowiec Rohrer Vmce Chadwick Kaiser Ryan Van Home Clark KiOg Sather Waugh RULES SUSPENDED Clvmer Krebs Savtor wnnht. D. R M. 'lhe SPEAKER. 'The gentleman, Mr. Cessar, is recognized. Egolf Kukovkh %he& wrist. N. Fairchild Sshuler Yandriswita Mr. CESSAR. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Fargo Maitland Serafini ZW What I would like to do, Mr. Speaker, is to suspend the Fichter Mandexino Smith, B. rules temporarily to put into effect a 2-minute speaking Flade Masland Smith. S. H. Dew- Flick Miehlais Steelman %-k- allowance, and I thnk that is plenty ample for evelybody to Freeman convey their message. 'l'he SPEAKER. The Chair thanks the gentleman. NOT VOTING4 The gentleman has asked for a temporary suspension of the Car0 Markosek Riner Tulh rules. lhs is not debatable except by the floor leaders. Seeing that the floor leaders are not anxious to debate, all those in favor of a temporary suspension of the rules for a 2- Acosla Cohen, L. I. Olsle Rieg0 minute spealung oppollunity during this next amendment will Bush O'Donnell Pdmca vote "aye"; those who are not in favor of suspending the rides for a 2-minute limitation will vote "no." A majority of the members elected to the House having On the question, voted in the affirmative, the question was determined in the Will the House agree to the motion? affirmative and the motion was agreed to. The following roll call was recorded: I Mr. RYAN. Mr. Speaker? The SPEAKER The gentleman,- Mr. Cessar, now makes a YEAS-I 17 motion- Allpn Durham Iederer Robe* The gentleman, Mr. Ryan. Argall Evans Lee Robinson Mr. RYAN. Mr. Speaker, I move that HB 185 be recom- Battisto Fajt Leh Roebuck mitted to the Committee on Rules- Bebko-Jones Farmer Lesco"itz R~w Belfanti Fee Levdsnsky Rubley The SPEAKER The gentleman is out of order. Birmolin Gamble Lloyd Rudy Mr. RYAN. Thank you. Bishop George I,pch Saolool The SPEAKER The Chair was recognizing- - Mr. Cessar. Brown Gigiiatti Marsico Ssumo Mr. RYAN. Well, you mentioned my name. I apologize. Bulkovllz Gladeck M~yemik Scnmeoti Buxtoo Gruitza McCall Sewel The SPEAKER Apology is not necessary, sir.

Caltaeimne~ ~ ~ Haluska McGeehan Snvder. D. W. Mr. CESSAR Mr. S~aker.I will defer to my floor leader. Cappahanca Harley McNally &back 1 The SPEAKER The only bbselvation that the Chair has is Ce~sar Hasay Melio Shirr that the Chair was under &e impression that the gentleman Civera llennevsey Merry StRghner Cohen, M. Hemn Micome Stish from Philadelphia and the gentleman from Etna, downtown Colafella Hess Mihalich Sum Etna, had had some confabulation that your intercession might Hughes Miller Tcmgretti mitigate. ltlun Mundy 'Taylor, J. James Murphy Thorns Mr. RYAN. What did you say? Jamlzn Nailor 'J'rello Mr. EVANS. Mr. Speaker? Jowhs Oliver Trich Ihe SPEAKER Mr. Evans is recognized. Kasunic Pexi Uliana Mr. EVANS. Mr. Speaker, 1 agree with the floor leader, the Keller Parone Vmn Konney I'ettit Vilali minority floor leader, that people are very tired and it has been Kirkland P~ccala Washington a long day. However, Mr. Speaker, I believe that I moved IaGrdta Astella Williams towards a compromise by the fact that I agreed with Mr. 2384 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL8 - HOUSE DECEMBER 15

Cessar that we should have a 2-minute limit. I understand that Baker McCall Smith. 8. we have been through the Michlovic debate and the Ryan Merry Smith, S. H. Gordner Michlwic Stairs debate; I understand we may change some minds and we may L:z Boy, GNFW Mi-e Steelmso not, but I think, Mr. Speaker, I deserve the right and the emw Hanoa Murphy Stpll opportunity to just present my point of view, and no more than Hennewsy Nailor Slem agreeing with Mr. Cessar, I agreed, made it bipartisan, and I Hershey Niskol Stdler E::g Hess Nyce St"ttmatter hope the floor leader really understands that, because yw chsdulck Hutchinson O'Brien Shlrla how, I have a lot of resvect for the floor leader. but some- Civera Jadloulec Peml Tavlor. E. Z times I think the flwr leader gets a little absentee in terms of Clark Jamlin Phillips Tigue how I try to cooperate. Clymer Kaiser Piccola Tomlinwn Canti K&c Pins True So I am asking that we have tlus opportunity for 2 minutes, Daley Keoney Plans Tulli people get the opportunity to debate it 2 minutes, and I think Devse~ King bymad van- b I deserve that courtesy. Dent Krebs Re& Van Home Dnrce Kukovicb Reinard waugh Durham Lab Rohrer Wright. M. N. MOTION TO LIMIT DEBATE Egolf Lawless Rubley Yaodriswits Fairchild Leh Ryan zug The SPEAKER Mr. Cessar is recognized. Fargo LNdanslty Sather Mr. CESSAR. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Rchter Lucyk Saylor Fleagle Maitland Scheetz At this time I would make the motion that we limit debate Flick Manderino Schuler to 2 minutes. NOT VOTING-2 On the question, Will the House agree to the motion? (Members proceeded to vote.) Acosta coben, L. I. Ol~a Rieger The SPEAKER The Parliamentarian advises that this Bush O'Donnell Petrams would take 102 votes in order to adopt this temporary rule - 102 votes. The question was determined in the negative, and the On the question retuning, motion was not agreed to. Will the House agree to the motion? The SPEAKER. The gentleman, Mr. Ryan, is recognized. The following roll call was recorded: Mr. RYAN. Mr. Speaker, I move that HB 185 be recom- mitted to the Committee on Rules as opposed to what I YEAS-93 originally intended, which was to move it into one of the Allen Evms Lee Rudy standing committees, with the idea in mind- Argall Fajt Leacaitz Santoni The SPEAKER. The gentleman will momentarily desist. Milto Fa- Lloyd Saurmao Bebkc-Jones Fee Lyncb semmel The objection monitored on the right is appropriate. ?'he &Ifanti Gamble Markosek Snyder, D. W gentleman, Mr. Evans, was recognized, and the gentleman, Mr. Birmelin G6sl Mapmik Staback Cessar's intercession was appropriate. The gentleman, Mr. Blaum Gmcgs McGaehao StRghner Butkwitz Giglidti McNtlly Stish Ryan's intercession is not appropriate. The gentleman, Mr. Bvxton Gladgk Melio Sum Evans, is still recognized. Cdtagimoe Gruitzs Mihalich Tangetti The Chair apologizs to the gentleman fmm Delaware, but Capbiancs Halush Miller Taylor, J. I am certain that my actions are appropriate. Cam Hadey Mwdy Thomas Hssay Trello On the question recurring, Hrrman Trich Will the House concur in Senate amendments as amended? = Hugh- Uliaoa Itkin VW" Mr. EVANS offered the following amendments No. A5095: James Vitali Josephs Washin- Amend Sec. I (Sec. 61 1 I), page 2. lines 8 through 59; page Keller Williams 3, lines I through 24 (A4786). by striking out "Within 20 business Kirkland Wagan days after the", page 2, line 8 and all of lines 9 through 59, page Lacrdta Wazoiak 2 and all of lines 1 through 24, page 3 Laughlin Wright, D. R Amend Bill, page 3, by inserting between lines 31 and 32 Laker Yw"s (A4786) Section 3. Chapter 61 of Title I8 is amended by adding a subchapter to read: '.I CHAPTER 61 FIREARMS AND OTHER DANGEROUS ARTICLES Fmn Scrimti I Gsnnon Serafini SUBCHAPTER D LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE

ASSAULr WEAPONS UZI Pistol Sec. (2) Any shotgun with a revolving cylinder such as 61 81. Definitions. the "Street Sweeper" or "Sinker 12." 6182. Determination by court. (3) A semiautomatic weapon with a magazine 6183. Registration. capacity exceeding ten rounds. 6184. Relinquishment of weapons. (4) Any fuearm declared by the court pursuant to 6185. Licensed gun dealers. section 6182 (relating to determination by court) to be an 61 86. Penalties. assault weapon. 6187. Application of subchapter. "Automatic fuearm." A fuearm which uses a portion of the $ 6181. Definitions. force of a fired cartridge to expel the case of the fued cartridge Thc lbllowing wards and phrases when used in this subchap- and load another cartridge into the fuina chamber: and which ter shall have the meanings given to them in this section unless automatically shoots more than one shot Ey a single function of the context clearly indicates otherwise: the trigger. "Assault weapon." "Commissioner." The Commissioner of the Pe~sylvania (1) The following weapons known by the trade State Police. names soccified: "Licensed gun dealer." A oerson who has a Federal firearms RIFLES license and anyUbusiness license required by a State or local Algimec AGM 1 type governmental entity. Australian SAR "Semiautomatic fuearm." A firearm which uses a portion of Avlomat Kalashnikov (AK) series the force of a fued cartridge to expel the case of the fied Rerotta AR-70 ~SC-70; cartridge and load another cartridge ldto the fuing chamber; and Rerotta BM59 ' which requires a separate function of the trigger to fue each Bushmaster Assault R~fle(armgun) cartridge. Caltco M-900 type 8 6182. Determination by court. CETME G3 (a) General rule.-Upon request by the commissioner filed Chartered Industries SR-88 type in a verified petition in the Commonwealth Court. the court shall CAR-1 5 serles issue a declaration of temporary suspension of the manufacture, Daewoo AK-100 type.. sale, distribution, transportation or importation into this Common- Daewoo K-l wealth, or the giving or lending of a fvearm alleged to he an Daewoo K-2 assault weanon because the firearm is either of the followinu: Daewoo Max 1 I Another model by the same manufacturer ;r a Daewoo Max 2 copy by another manuf;lcturer of an assaulr weapon llstcd lo Demro TAC-I carbine type section 6181 (relattny to dcfmtttons), whtch IS ~denttcalto Encom MP-9 carbine tvoe one of the assault weapons listed inthat section except for Encom MP-45 carbine'Gpe slizht modifications or enhancements. includinu. but not FAMAS MAS223 12;ted to: a folding or retractable stock; adjustible sight; G3SA type case deflector for left-handed shooters; shorter barrel; Galil type wooden, plastic or metal stock; larger magazine size; Heckler & Koch MP-5 different caliber provided that the caliber exceeds .22 Mandall the TAC-I Carbine rimfue; or bayonet mount. The court shall strictly construe M-16 type this paragraph so that a fvearm which is merely similar in M-900 Assault Carbine appearance but not a prototype or copy can not be found to MAC 1 1-99 Carbine Type be within the meaning of this paragraph. Plainfield Machine Company Carbine (2) A firearm fust manufactured or sold to the SKS wtth detachable magazine general public in this Commonwealth 90 days after the SIG AMT effective date of this subchapter, which has been redesigned, SIG 500 berles renamed or renumbered from one of the fuearms listed in SlCi PE-57 section 6181, or which is manufactured or sold by another Sterllng MK-6 company under a licensing agreement to manufacture or sell Sterl~nuSAR one of the firearms listed therein regardless of the comoanv Steyr XUG of production or distribution. or th; counhy of origin: Valmet M62 semiautomatic (b) Declaration of temporary suspension.-Upon the issuance Valmet M71S semiautomatic of a declaration of temnorary susvension by the court and after the commissioner has combletehthe hotice re4irements of subsection (c)(l), the provisions of subsection (a) shall apply with respect to Uzi carbine type I those weapons. Weaver Arms Nighthawk (c) Notice.- Mac 10 (I) Upon declaration of temporary suspension, the .Mac .-. 11.. commissioner shall immediately notify all police, sheriffs, lntratcc 'TllC-9 district attorneys and those requesting notice under para- lntratec TEC-22 graph (2), shall notify industry and association publications Mitchell Arms Spectre Auto for those who manufacture. sell or use fuearms. and shall Sterling MK-7 publ~rhnottcu in not less &an ten newspapers "I general Calico M-900 cuculutrnn lo geograph~callydtverbe sccttons 01' this (.om- SHOTGUNS nionwcalth oithe idc~that the declarauon has been lssucd Encom CM-55 (2) The commissioner shall maintain a list of any Franchi SPAS 12 persons who request to receive notice of any declaration of Franchi 1.AW 12 temporary suspension and shall furnish notice undet para- Gilbert Equipment Company Striker 12 waoh (1). . to all these oersons immediatelv noon a court Ciilbert Equipment Company Street Sweeper jGd;lratl,,n. N,,llce shali also be furnished by ihe commts- Steyr-AIJG semiautomat~ctype rmner by icrtbi~edmad, retwn recclpt rcquestad (or substan- IJSAS 12 semiautomatic type tial equivalent if the person to rece~vesame resides outside Pistols the United States), to any known manufacturer and Com- LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE DECEMBER 15

- -- p~p monwealth distributor of the weapon subject to the tempo- (6) While transporting the assault weapon between rary suspension order or their statutory agent for service. any of the places mentioned in this subsection. The notice shall be deemed effective upon mailing. No person who is under 18 years of age and no person who is (d). . Hearinn.-After issuing- a declaration of temoorarv. . pr,,htbltrd Iiom pt>ssr.hlng a flrcarm by lhts chapter may regliter suspenslon under thls rectlun. !he court shall rct a dat? tslr hearmy or pus~casan assault weapon I he regtitrattun pruceJures shall w on a permanent declaratron that the wuapun 1s an absault we;ipun. pr.tvlJe the opthrn ni)<,~nIregrstrathln tur airault weapunr ~,wur.d 'The heartnp shall hc re! no later than 30 days hum the date ui by family members residing in the same household. issuance ofthe declaration of temporary suspension. The hearing 5 6184. Relinquishment of weapons. mav be continued for nood- cause thereafter. Anv manufacturer or Anv individual mav arranae- in advance to relinauish an Cun~monwealthdiitrthutor ot thr: meapon wh~h16 the suhlect of assault woapon to a police or sher~ff's department. the tenrpurary suspenslon order has the rtght. wtthrn 20 Jays oi 5 6185. Licensed gun dealers. notification of the issuance of the order, to intervene in the action. Any licensed gun dealer who lawfully possesses an assault Any manufacturer or Commonwealth distributor who fails to weapon under this subchapter, in addition ta the uses allowed timely exercise its right of intervention or any other person who hereunder.. mav. transoort the weaoon between dealers or out of manufacturers, sells or owns the assault weapon may, in the this Commonwealth, hisplay it ai any gun show licensed by a court's discretion, thereafter join the action as amicus curiae. State or local governmental entity, sell it to a resident outside this t (e) Burden of proof.-At the hearing, the burden of proof is Commonwealth or sell it to a person who has been issued a permit upon the commissioner to show by a preponderance of evidence pursuant to this subchapter.' Any transporting allowed by this that the weapon which is the subject of the declaration of section must be done as roquired by this subchapter. temporary suspension is an assault weapon. If the court finds the 5 6186. Penalties. weapon to be an assault weapon, it shall issue a declaration (a) Unlawful manufacture, importation, etc.-Any person thereof. Any party to the matter may appeal the court's decision. who within this Commonwealth manufactures or causes to be A declaration that the weapon is an assault weapon shall remain manufactured,distributes, transportsor imports into thisCommon- in effect during the pendency of the appeal unless ordered wealth, keeps far sale or offers or exposes far sale, or who gives otherwise by the appellate court. or lends any assault weapon, except as provided by this subchap- 5 6183. Registration. ter, commits a felony of the third degree. (a) General rule.-Any person who lawfully possesses an (b) Unlawful possession.-Any person possessing an assault assault weapon, prior to 90 days after the effective date of this weapon in violation of this subchapter commits a misdemeanor of subchapter, shall register the firearm within one year of that the first degree for a first offense and a felony of the third degree effective date, with the commissioner under those procedures far each subsequent offense. which the Pe~sylvaniaState Police may establish. The registra- 5 6187. Application of subchapter. tion shall contain a descriotion of the ruearm that identifies it This subchaoter shall not ao~lvto the use or oossession of A. . uniquely. including all iAentification marks, the full name, assault weapons by State or local law enforcement agencies, the address, date of birth and thumbprint of the owner, and any other I military forces of thls Commonwealth or the armed forces of the information as the departmeni may deem appropriate. The United States. department may charge a fee for registration of up to $20 per person but not to exceed the actual processing costs of the On the question, department. (b) Certain sales, transfers, etc.-No assault weapon Will the House agree to the amendments? possessed under this section may be sold or transferred on or after 90 days following the effective date of this subchapter, to anyone The SPEAKER On the amendment, Mr. Evans. within this Commonwealth other than to a licensed gun dealer, as Mr. EVANS. Mr. Speaker, what I would like to dw defined herein. Any person who obtains title to an assault weapon registered under this section by bequest or intestate succession, moves into this Commonwealth in lawful possession of an assault PARLIAMENTARY INQUIRY weapon or lawfully possessed a firearm subsequently declared to be an assault weaoon under this subchapter shall. within 90 davs, Mr. RYAN. Pardon me. either render the weapon permanently &operable, sell the weapon Mr. Speaker, pint of parliamentary inquiry. to a licensed gun dealer or remove the weapon from this Com- I The SPEAKER The gentleman will state his point. monwealth. Aperson who lawfully possesseda fiream which was Mr. RYAN. At what pint is it-and I ask this out of tired subseauentlv. , declared to be an assault weaoon under section 6182 I (relating to determination by court) may alternatively register the ignorance-at what pint is it appropriate for me to make such firearm within 90 days of that declaration. I a motion as I attempted to make? I am sayng this before the (c) Conditions of possession.-^ person who has registered gentleman gets started. an assault weapon under this section may possess it only under the following conditions unless a permit allowing additional uses is (Conference held at Swaker's first obtained: whum.) (1) At that person's residence, place of business or P other property owned by that person or on property owned The SPEAKER. On the Evans amendment, the gentleman by another with the owner's express permission. from Philadelphia is recognized. (2) While on the premises of a target range of a Mr. EVANS. Mr. Speaker- public or private club or organization organized for the Mr. RYAN. Mr. Speaker, I hate to interrupt again, but- purpuse ofpract~c~ngshuut~ng at targct~.- (3) Whtle on a target range whtch holds a regulat~ry The SPEAKER The gentleman will indicate his reason for or bu5~ness[sense for the purpuse oi prdcuctng shoonnj at taking the microphone. that target range. Mr. RYAN. My members do not have a copy of this (4) While on the premises of a shooting club. (5) While attending any exhibition, display or amendment, nor have we caucused on it. educational project which is about firearms and which is The SPEAKER The administrative people on staff indicate t sponsored by, conducted under the auspices of or approved that it has been distributed. by a law enforcement agency or a nationally or State Mr. RYAN. apologize. Apparently, many have it. recognized entity that fosters proficiency in, or promotes l do I education about, firearms. had been told that they did not. 1993 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE 2387

The SPEAKER. An honest mistake. arguments, but I would like to describe the difference in the amendment that I am offering verms the amendment that The gentleman, Mr. Evans, is recogwed. Representative Michlovic offered versus the amendment Mr. EVANS. Mr. Speaker, may I interrogate Representative Renresentative- -.r~~-~ Rvan ,. v... James from Pluladelphia? The amendmeht that Representative Michlovic offered had The SPEAKEK. The subcommittee chairman on Crime and about 69 weapons on that particular list. What 1 did, Mr. Comctions indcates that he will respond to interngation on Speaker, is, I went to Mr. James and spoke to people from the the Evans amendment. Philadelphia Police Department about the difference in terms Mr. EVANS. Mr. Speaker, can you tell me about your of the various weapons. I said, at least to Mr. James, that we background with the Philadelphia police force? need to come up with something that is somewhat of a middle Mr. JAMES. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. ground. I expressed, Mr. Speaker, if you look at the amend- I just simply say that I started on the police force in ment that 1 am offering, that I do believe, Mr. Speaker, that January of 1965 as an undercover officer working on narcotics, this is a beginning. The amendment that Mr. Ryan offered Mr. and I did that for about 5 years. Then I went and did uniform Speaker, was an amendment that was addressing between 14 patrol work for the rest of my time, for 22 years totally, to 16 weapons. In that amendment that he offered, Mr. retiring in 1987. Speaker, I stood here and I said to each and evely one of you Mr. EVANS. Mr. Speaker, can you tell me-you had a that I would suppolt that amendment, because I expressed to chance to read my amendment-could you, Mr. Speaker, tell you also, Mr. Speaker, that this was not an issue of a Demo- me how the police department in the city of Philadelphia cmt-Kepuhlican, urban-d-suburban, but it was an issue arrived at the list of weapons that are on this particular about the people of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. amendment, Mr. Speaker? I understand, Mr. Speaker, that people have gotten to a Mr. JAMES. Yes. In a meeting with yourself and Repre- point where they are tired of dealing with this issue. However, sentative Hughcs and Representative 'Tony Williams, I called Mr. Speaker, there are people throughout the Commonwealth Police Commissioner Neal'soffice. 1 spoke to Deputy Commis- of Pennsylvania who are t&d of being shot at. Unfortunately, sioncr Seamon and also Commissioner Neal. I told him that Mr. Speaker, it seems that when we get tired of dealing with there was some concern up here, as we talked about banning an issue, we suddenly can turn it off and say we no longer assault weapons, and there was some concern from sportsmen's want to deal with it. organizations and people that participated in competition and Well, I am saying to you, Mr. Speaker, that I have stood target shooting. 1 asked him if he could give us a list, based on here and supported Mr. Ryan and his amendment; that I asked the Michlovic amendment, which of these weapons that .they the floor leader, the minority floor leader, to consider my dd not find too much on the streets of Philadelphia by amendment on the merit of the issue. I said that Mr. Ryan's criminals but that they did believe were used for target practice amendment, in my opinion, Mr. Speaker, was a heginning and and competition. At that point they then got in touch with not the end. What I have attempted to do, Mr. Speaker, is firearms experts, and at that point they did come out with a list expand that from 16 to about 54 weapons, issues that have of 15 weapons which I told you that they considered could be been raised with me, Mr. Speaker. removed from the ban on assault weapons. I would hope, I would hope no matter what side of the Mr. EVANS. Mr. Speaker, was there anything else that the aisle you are from, no matter what part of the Commonwealth Philadelphia Police Department expressed to you regarding you are from, that you basically look at this issue and that you these particular weapons that are on ths list? support this particular amendment. Mr. JAMES. Yes. I'hey were concerned about a section Again, Mr. Speaker, this issue is not going to go away, and which talked about thc semiautomatic weapons with a maga- the reality of it is, Mr. Speaker, I would hope that Democrats zine capacity exceeding 10 rounds. However, in a further and Republicans could support me on this amendment. lhank explanation from staff, we found that because police omcers you, Mr. Speaker. now, because of what I had expressed last night of how the criminals arc starting to use automatic weapons and now the MOTION TO RECOMMIT police departments have to am themselves with automatic weapons, they were concerned that their automatic weapons The SPEAKER Mr. Ryan. For what purpose does the might be part of the ban. But because of the subsection in the distinguished gentleman from Delaware County rise? last paragraph in 6187, that excludes law enforcement person- Mr. RYAN. Mr. Speaker, to renew my suggestion, by way nel and military personnel, so they wcre satisfied. of motion, however, that this matter deserves far more closer Mr. EVANS. Mr. Speaker, 1 would like to thank the attention than we have been willing or able to give at this date. gentleman for allowing me to interrogate him, and 1would like I at this time move that the bill he recommitted to the Commit- to comment on the amendment. tee on Game and Fisheries. The SPEAKEK. 'lhe gentleman is in order and may The SPEAKER. The motion that the gentleman offers is to proceed. recommit to the House Game and Fish. Mr. EVANS. Mr. Speaker, I know that an awful lot of Mr. RYAN. Mr. Speaker, that includes any amendments people at this particular point have heard an awful lot of that are attached to it, of course. 2388 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE DECEMBER 15

The SPEAKER. The Chair thanks the gentleman for the YEAS-91 clarification. Adolph Flick Marslco Saylor The gentleman moves that the bill and the accompanying I Gannon ~a~laad Ssh& amendments be recommitted to the House Game and Fish Armstrong OR* Merry Sshuler Committee. Baker Gerlacb Misozde Semmel I Bh Gladeclt Miller Serafini On the question, Bimlin Godshall Nailor Smith. B. ms Gmppo Nickol Smith, S. H. Will the House agree to the motion? Brm Hasay Nyce Snydn; D. W. Bunt Hemessey O'Brieo Stairs The SPEAKER This motion is debatable. Chadwick Hem Pmel Steil The gentleman Mr. Evans, is recognized on the motion to Civen Hershey Pettit Stein recommit. Clark Hes Phillips S1"ltma~ Mr. EVANS. Mr. Speaker, all day, from this moming when Clymer Hu(~hios00 Piwola Taylw, E. Z. conti Jadlowiec Pi- Taylor, I. 'r the floor leader indicated that this bill should be recommitted Dempsq. Keoney Plans Todinson at that particular point we voted "no." We came back after Dmce King Raymond Tme lunch, Mr. Speaker, and my leader suggested that this bill be Durham Ws Reinsrd Tulli Egolf Laub Rohrer Uliana postponed and you voted "no." I am expecting, Mr. Speaker, Firchild Lawless Rubley Vane and I would like and I would greatly appreciate it if members Fargo Lee Rudy waugh on both sides of the floor would understand that I would like Farmer ~eb Ryan wogan to think that I deserve the very same courtesy to debate this Fichter Lpch Sather ZUB Flegle Maitland Saurman issue. While the fact that we are debating this particular issue, Mr. Speaker, we could be debating the amendment that is NAYS-94 before us. Baniso Fee hc~k Staback So I would ask a "no" vote on recommitting the bill to Bebk*Jones Freenun Madaim Steelman Game and Fish. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Belardi Gamble Markwek Steighner Thank Belfanti George Mayemik Stdler The SPEAKER. you. Mr. Evans. Blam Gordner MKall Stish Butkwitz GNih Mffie~hao Shlrla PARLIAMENTARY INQUIRY Bu*fon Haluska McNally Surra Callagimne Hama Melio Tangrdti The SPEAKER The gentleman, Mr. Harold James, from Cam Harley Michlwic Thomas Philadelphia also seeks recognition on the motion to recommit. Cswley Hugbes Mihalich Tigue Cessar ltkio Muady Trella Mr. JAMES. Mr. Speaker, may I ask a question of parlia- Calafella I-s Muwhy Trich mentary inquiry? Colavla lamlin Oliver Van Home The SPEAKER The gentleman is in order and may Cornell Josephs Pesci veon proceed. Conigaa Kaisa Pdrone Vitali Covvell KasUntc Pisella Williams Mr. JAMES. What is the process, Mr. Speaker, if in fact COY Keller Preston Wozniak we can deal with Ryan's motion &er we vote on the Evans curry Kilkland Ritter Wright. D. R amendment? Ddey Kukovich Robens Wright, M. N. SPEAKER. To answer the gentleman specifically, the DeLusp lsughlin Rcbioaoo ya0dn-t~ The Dm1 Lederer Roebvck Yewcic motion in front of the House at this time is the Ryan motion Donatucci bvik Rmney to recommit. If that is voted upon favorably, then the gentle- Evms Lwdansky Santool Dew--=, man's amendment would also be sent to the Game and Fajt Lid Scrimmti Speaker Fisheries Committee along with the bill. NOT VOTING-I I Mr. JAMES. But can we vote again on the Ryan motion Argall Came Ciiglionl Richardson after we vote on Representative Evans' amendment? Bishop Coben. M. LaGm Washington The SPEAKER If the gentleman's motion is defeated and Cappabianca Dermcdy Reber the gentleman, Mr. Evans' amendment is dealt with, then at - that time a motion similar to Mr. Ryan's would be appropriate. Mr. JAMES. All right. Mr. Speaker, can I make a motion Awsta Cohsn, I,. I. Olasz Rieger to postpone Ryan's motiowis that in order?-until afler the vote Bush O'Donnell Pdrarca on Evans' amendment? The SPEAKER Respectfully, the gentleman's motion is not The question was determined in the negative, and the in order. motion was not agreed to. On the question recurring, On the question recurring, '.r Will the House agree to the motion? Will the House agree to the amendments? The following roll call was recorded: LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE

The SPEAKER The gentleman is in order and may as a subcategory the way "shotguns" is up above, is found in proceed. the lefl, in line, so that I believe if this amendment is adopted Mr. EVANS. Thank you. Mr. Speaker. as it is presented, all pistols in Pennsylvania are part of the 1 would like to thank the members of the House for ban. allowing me to debate this particular issue. What I was expressing to you earlier, Mr. Speaker, was CONSTITUTIONAL POINT OF ORDER that what we are attempting to do in this amendment that I am offering is basically to deal with some of the issues that Mr. RYAN. Now, under those circumstances, I sincerely basically have been raised by others that have not ken believe that. aside from it being improperly bfied, it is .JA- ....J clearlv unconstitutional. and I call it into issue on that basis. aCLULCSSCU. I feel fundamentally, Mr. Speaker, if you look at the Do believe me. page of the amendment. amendment that 1 am offering, the amendment tends to tty to I am questioning the constitutionality, Mr. Speaker. eet to the base of some issues that Mr. Rvan had ienored. If The SPEAKER. The gentleman, Mr. Ryan. has raised the - - constitutionality of the amendment. you look at it, 1 incorporate the 14 or the (6 weapons that Mr. I Ryan had in his amendment, but besides that, I go a little On the question, further. You heard Mr. Jamcs express to you that there were Will the House sustain the constitutionality of the amend- some weapons that we tried to be sensitive to the sportsmen ments? and to the NRA and we tried to be sensitive to those individu- als who use weapons from a competitive standpoint. We do The SPEAKER On the issue of constitutionality, the not, Mr. Speaker, and I want to repeat that, we do not, Mr. gentleman, Mr. Evans, is recognized. Speaker, want to affect individuals that use weapons from a Mr. EVANS. Mr. Speaker, if you go back to Mr. Ryan's competitive standpoint. Mr. Speaker, we were loolang at amendment and you look at Mr. Ryan's amendment, we use individuals who put out weapons, in our view, that are out the exact same language that Mr. Ryan uses. If he looks at that there maiming and hurting people. language, we use the exact same language. So I am saying to you, Mr. Speaker, that I believe and I So what we just did, when we voted the Ryan amendment, am suggesting to you that the amendment that 1 am offering We did exactly- I use the exact same hwage as Mr. Ryan is goes a little further than what Mr. Ryan has offered. However, using except I just expand on his exact same information. it does not go as far as what Mr. Michlovic offered. I believe, Mr. RYAN. Mr. Speaker, that is not so. If you take a look Mr. Speaker, that it is a beginning. at my amendment, in the list the only place the word "pistol" The gentleman is right. 1 hope that if I am successful in appears on the list is afler the word "~zi." this particular amendment, I will be the first one to say, yes, Mr. EVANS. Mr. Speaker- let us sit down and go through both amendments and figure Mr. RYAN. Well, look, my amendment- out where we go. But at this particular point, Mr. Speaker, I The SPEAKER Excuse me, gentlemen. believe that if you look at the amendment that I am offering, Mr. Ryan. the gentleman, Mr. Evans, is- that we have put some thought into it, and we m saying, yes, we should not -~o as far as what the Michlovic amendment PARLIAMENTARY INQUIRY stressed, hut, yes, we should not be at just the point of what Mr. RYAN. Point of parliamentwy inquiry. Mr. Ryan is offering. The SPEAKER. Will the gentleman please state his point. So 1 would ask that Democrats and Republicans on both Mr. RYAN. I wonder if the Speaker would be kind enough sides consider this issue, and 1 hope that I can get a "yes" vote to ask the Parliamentarian to interpret the second page of this on this amendment. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. amendment and tell me whether or not "pistols" appears in the The SPEAKER. The gentleman, Mr. Ryan, on the Evans list that makes it pal of the- Does he dare interpret that? It is amendment. the same as a MAC-10, a MAC-I 1, and eveiythmg else. Mr. RYAN. Mr. Speaker, I am going to ask to interrogate, The SPEAKER In response to the gentleman from hut first I am going to make a brief comment. Delaware's inquiry, the Parliamentarian indicates respeclfully What we do in haste we really regret and the people of that that is really not his responsibility. Pennsylvania regret. Now, I cannot believe for a moment that Mr. RYAN. He is right, and he is smart. the gentleman intends this, and I am cenain that a lot of you I renew my question of constitutionality, and what my on the other side and a lot of our people probably think this is amendment says- pan of my rhetoric to foul this up, hut it is not. The SPEAKER. With all due respect-excuse me, Mr. I am asking you now to get a copy of the amendment that Ryamn the question of constitutionality, and possibly we can the gentleman has provided to each of us. Turn to page work this out momentarily, but the gentleman, Mr. Evans, was 2-ready, 1, 2-page 2. At the bottom of it, you will find, about recognized on the question of your constitutionality. You will 8 or 10 or 12 lines up from the bottom, the word "pistols." be recognized as soon as he concludes. Now, the way- This amendment was &Red improperly; that Mr. EVANS. Mr. Speaker, my understanding, the minority is all I am sayng. 'Ihe word "pistols," instead of being found leader removed his question of constitutionality? 2390 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE DECEMBER I5

The SPEAKER The gentleman indicates that he has shoes, so Jadlowiec continues to remind me of that today, but renewed or removed? Yes, Mr. Evans, the gentleman, Mr. we are both proud the Indians won. Ryan, has renewed his interest in the constitutionality of the 1 would like to just relate a little bit about the game, if I '..r amendment. could, this past weekend. It was 9 112 minutes left in the Mr. EVANS. Mr. Speaker, what I would like to do, if game; it was 14-dp; they were playing for the State champion- people will look at page 2 of Mr. Ryan's amendment and look ship. Central Bucks West was leading. In the last quarter, the at page 2 of the amendment that I offer, I use and I will show North Hills Indians' quarterback threw 165 yrds in the last the gentleman that the word "pistol" is a category very much quarter. the same way Mr. Ryan uses a category on his. It is the exact North Hills' first score came on a 28-yard TD (touchdown) same language, and it was written by the Reference Bureau. It pass and made it 14-7. Then North Hills' defense forced three is no different than what Mr. Ryan just voted on this floor, and plays and a punt afler Bucks' possession. Central Bucks came it is right here, Mr. Speaker. back with less than 2 minutes, intercepted a North Hills pass. The SPEAKER Mr. Ryan is recognized. Then North Hills held the Bucks team for 3 yards in three Mr. RYAN. Two points. First. it is not relevant what was plays; Bucks punted. With I minute and 52 seconds left, Nolth in the other amendment because it was not questioned; Hills completed a 51-yard pass and scored with 25 seconds lefl secondly, the gentleman is misleading us because in the in the game. amendment that I offered, the word "pistols" does not appear Denny O'Brien is doing a good imitation. 'The score is 14- withwt other words next to it, unlike the amendment of the 13. What do we do at this point? Do we go for the one point gentleman from Philadelphia. or do we go for the two points? Two points. Very good. That Just look at what is before you. It is what is before you that is exactly what North Hills High School did. They went for the you are voting on, not what happened earlier today or last two points with 25 seconds leQ and they won 14 to 15. The year. I believe the gentleman is looking at the Michlovic game is over. North Hills High School wins, quad-A champs, amendment, incidentally. third in the Nation. Thank you. Tbe SPEAKER The CChr would politely request that all members focus the debate on constitutionality, constitutionalitv VOTE. - -- CORRECTION- ~ of the Evans amendment. That is the question before the u~,.c~.-"-. 1 The SPEAKER. Does the lady from Butler County, Ms. The House will stand at ease for 1 minute. Carone, seek recognition? The lady is recognized. I Ms. CARONE. Mr. Speaker, 1 would like to correct the SUBCOMMITTEE MEETING record. On HB 185, the motion to reconsider, my button did not The SPEAKER The gentleman, Mr. Sturla, calls an work, and it should be recorded in the affirmative. Thank you. immediate meeting of the ~hanAffairs Committee's Third- I The SPEAKER. The Chr thanks the lady, and-her Class Cities Subcommittee at the back of the hall of the remarks will be s~readacross the record. House; an immediate meeting. It should last 30 seconds, according to Chairman Sturla. The SPEAKER The gentleman, Mr. Ryan, is recognized. Mr. RYAN. Are we still on the question of constitutional- STATEMENT BY MR MAYERNIK I ity?The SPE~RThe gentleman should be aware of the fact The SPEAKER We are at ease for 1 minute. that the Chair took the ~~~ortunity,while we were at ease for Does the gentleman, Mr. Mayemik, seek recognition on a a minute or hvo, for the purposes of a couple of announce- point of pemnal privilege? ments, but we certainly are on the motion of constitutionality Mr. MAYERNIK. Yes, I do, Mr. Speaker. that you offered. That is where we are, sir. The SPEAKER The gentleman is recoxnized- and mav pmceed while the House I< at ease. VOTE CORRECTION W Mr. MAYERNIK. Mr. Speaker, I would just like to take a moment to reflect back on the activities from this past week- The SPEAKER. Ms. Waslungton is recognized, and then end and congratulate the North Hills High School Indians for we will revert to our prev~ousdebate. being third in the Nation and winning the quad-A champion- Ms. WASHINGTON. Mr. Speaker, my button did not ship. work, and I want to vote "no" on the recommitment, on the North Hills High School met Central Bucks West, which is last question. represented by Representatives D~ceand Conti. Besides The SPEAKER. 'The lady's remarks will be spread across myself being a former Indian, we have another former Indian the record. The Chair thanks the lady. Ms. WASHINGTON. l'hank yw. in the hall of the chamber today and that is Representative Ken 'Ilr Jadlowiec, who played foothkl with me in-~orthHills. Of course, when he played, he was much older than 1 was, and I was his slave, as they called it. I used to have to shine his 1993 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE 2391

CONSIDERATION OF HB 185 CONTINUED On HB 906, amendment 4532, voted on the 7th of Decem- ber, 1 was not recorded. I wish to be recorded in the affirma- The SPEAKER. On the issue of constitutionality of the tive on the amendment. Evans amendment, does Mr. Evans seek recognition? The SPEAKER. The Chair thanks the gentleman from Mr. EVANS. Mr. Speaker, can we keep the House at ease I,hiladelphia, His remarks will be spread the record. for a second while the majority leader- Louise Williams Bishop, Representative from Philadelphia. 'The SPEAKER. Absolutely. For what purpose does the gentlelady rise? The House will remain at ease for another 2 minutes. Ms. BISHOP. To correct the record, Mr. Speaker. The SPEAKER. The gentlelady is in order and may STATEMENTS proceed. Mr. DRUCE. Mr. Speaker? Ms. BISHOP. On the vote to recommit the Evans amend- The SPEAKER. For what purpose does the gentleman rise? ment, I voted in the negative but my switch did not work. 1t Mr. DRUCE. Point of personal privilege, Mr. Speaker. did not register. The SPEAKER. 'The gentleman will please state lus point. 'Ihe SPEAKER. The Chair thanks the lady. Her negative Mr. DRIJCE. I cannot let the comments from my good be across the colleague, Mr. Mayernik, go without echoing a congratulations Ms. BISHOP. Thank you. to hm on behalf of myself and Representative Joe Conti. I would point out, however, that we will hope that North STATEMENT BY MR DENT Hills High School can continue their winning ways so at some The SPEAKER The gentleman from the Lehigh Valley, point they may reach Central Bucks'record of 53 straight wins, Mr. Dent, from AllentowR pennrylvania is For whch is a State record in our Commonwealth. We are glad to what pwpose Qes the gentleman rise? see they have joined the winning ranks, because Central Bucks Mr. DENT. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. West was our State champions in 1991. So they have got a Unanimous consent. proud tradition here, and 1 am sure that they are glad to The SPEAKER The gentleman should proceed. include some other schools in our Commonwealth in the Mr. DENT. Since we are on the subject of scholastic winner's circle. football, I do want to also wmmend my colleagues hom Maybe we will see you again there next year, and YOU and Bucks County and from Hills, %y did have fine 1, now that we know this, and 1% could maybe put some teams tlus year, and I hope that one day they will have stakes on this a little hit, maybe a Philly cheesesteak or the oppo~tyto play the best football team in the state, whatever it is you do in Pittsburgh, and we can see how it Allentown Central Catholic, which won the AA~ turn out. ship over the past weekend, beating Blackhawk 40-nothing. The SPEAKER. The Chair thanks the gentleman. Perhaps one day Notth Hills and Central Bucks will be able to Mr. DRUCE. Thank you. play Allentown Central Catholic for the title. But I think we all The SPEAKER. Does Mr. Mayernik seek recognition how that Allentown Central Catholic is number one and in the again? top 10 in the Nation. Thank you. Mr. MAYEKNIK. Yes. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The SPEAKER The Chair thanks Mr. Dent. Representative Jadlowiec and I both want to thank you for conceding that the superior team had won, as well as recogniz- REMARKS SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD ing that 5 ycm ago wc were first in the Nation, even though this year we tried harder and we are only third but we are Ihe SPEAKER The Chair recognizes Mr. Trich from willing to play at any time. Washington County. 1 see Mr. Dent also seeks recognition, Mr. Speaker. Mr. TRICH. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Merely to have remarks for the record submitted. VOTE CORRECTIONS The SPEAKER. The gentleman should bring his remarks fonvard, and the clerk will incogmate his remarks into the The SPEAKER. First the gentleman, Mr. Roebuck, will be of the day, recognized; then we will entcnain other comments. Mr. ROEBUCK. Mr. Speaker, I would like to correct the Mr. TRICH submitted the following remarks for the record. Legislative Jownal: The SPEAKER. For what purpose does Mr. Roebuck rise? Mr. Speaker, the votes I have cast today on this issue are votes Mr. ROEBUCK. I would like to correct the record. I that- will..- not- ~ be~ embraced bv all constituents in mv district. The SPEAKER. The gentleman is in order and may Difficult votes on tough issues rarely are. My votes Lave been nrncperl I Intended to deal responsibly with a violence problem, specifically a gun-violence problem. Mr. KOERUCK. IIxank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this issue should not be misrepresented as one that will take away the rights of Pennsylvanians to own a gun, nor is it to reduce the rights of the hunters in this Commonwealth. These weapons which we are debating about today deal only with 2392 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE DECEMBER 15

assault weapons. They are not used for hunting. They were BILL TABLED designed specifically to kill ow enemies in times of war. 1 The United States Senate, only I month ago, passed legislation The SPEAKER Will the gentleman, Mr. Itkin, the majority that places restrictions on the sale of certain assault weapons. This 'c. was done not to serve as a cure-all, but rather to start a process leader. be recognized? designed to reduce the availability of these weapons of war. The Mr. M. Mr. Speaker, with the concurrence of the

Michlovic amendment would attempt to give our police officers I minoritv leader. we will move at this time to table HB 185 and- a fighting chance on our streets. It will also reduce-at least I hope then we will proceed to other important business, which I hope and pray that it will-the number of deaths associated with gun violence in this Commonwealth. that we can just expedite rather rapidly and get out of here Although the Michlovic amendment would have served us tonight. better, the Ryan amendment represents at least a step, small as it So I will make a motion that we table HB 185 and the is, in the right direction. amendment that was voted into it. I urge my fellow House members to do what is right, to do what is necessary. We have a responsibility to do so, regardless of how that vote may or may not affect our future electability. On the question, Will the House agree to the motion? STATEMENT BY MR. KING The following roll call was recorded: The SPEAKER The gentleman from Mercer, Representa- YEAS-] 59 tive King, is recognized. For what purpose does the gentleman Adolph Fajl Maitland Schuler rise? Allen Fargo Markosek Scrimeoti Mr. KING. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Fm Marnco Semmel I want to lend my accolades to all those fine football Armstrong Fee Masland Serafini Baker Fichler Mayanik Smith, B. programs across the State, to the fine coaches, their parents, Barley Fleagle McCall Smith. S. H. and all the youngsters that participated. 1 especially want to Bebko-Jones Flick Mdiaehan Snyder, D. W. give a hearty congratulations to the Greenville High School Belardi Freeman McNally Staback football team on their winning record this year, finishing the Belfanti Gamble Melio shim Birmelio Gannoo Merry Steelma0 season undefeated, winning the first District 10 crown in the Bishop Geid Michlovic steiphner history of their school, and then going on to the playoffs and Bmwn George Miconie Steil defeating Erie's Strong Vincent, Lock Have& and Sharon But Gerlach Mihalich Stem football teams, subsequently to lose to Blackhawk, a finalist in Butkovllz Gladeck Miller Stish Buxton GmiUa Murphy Stnnmatter the State championshps. Caltaplmne Gmm Nailor Sums Again, thank you for letting me put this on the record. Cam H~I;;~, Nickol Taograi The SPEAKER. The Chair thanks Dr. King. ~srley O'Brien Taylor, E. Z. Cawlev Hasav Oliver Tavlor. I. Cessar Hennasey Peml STATEMENT BY MR. CHADWICK Chadwick Herman Pee Civera Hemhey Petmne The SPEAKER. The gentleman, Mr. Chadwick, is recog- Clark Hess Pettit Trich nized. For what purpose does the gentleman nse? Clymer Hutchinson Piccola Tme Mr. CHADWICK. Mr. Speaker, the football teams in my Cohen. M ltkin Pldella Tulli Colafella Jadlavlec Pins llliana district did not go anywhere this year, but we are pmud of Colaim Josephs Plans Vance them anyway. Conti Keller Preston Van Home The SPEAKER. The Chair thanks the gentleman. Comoll Kenney Raymond veon The gentleman, Mr. Chadwick might reserve some Comgao King Rtinard Washingoo Cmvell Krebs Robinson Waugh additional levity to inject into this gathering right here. COY Lac& Rabvck Williams DeLuca Laub Rohrer Wogan CONSIDERATION OF HB 185 CONTINUED Dw Laughlin Rmoey Wozniak Dent Lederer Rubley CONSTlTUl7ONAL POINT OF ORDER D~&Y Lee Rudy Doostvcn LP~ Ry.n WlTHDRAWN Dluce Lescovilz Santoni Durham Lloyd Saumn Mr. RYAN. Mr. Speaker? Egolf Lpch SEheeI.2 The SPEAKER For what purpose does the gentleman rise? Evans Mr. RYAN. Mr. Speaker, I withdraw my question on constitutionality. NAYS-33 The SPEAKER 'The Chair thanks the gentleman. Blaum Jamlin Manderino Sather Boyes Kaiser Mundy Saylor On the question recurring, Cappabianca Kasunic N~ce SteUer Will the House agree to the amendments? Curry Kirkland Phillips Sturla Dsley Kukovich Reber Thomas Fairchild Lawless Richardson Vitali Godshall Lwdaosky Riner Wright, M. 1993 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE 2393

Amend Sec. 1302, page 21, lines 19 through 25, by striking out all of said lines Amend Sec. 1303, page 21, line 26, by striking out "1303" NOT VOTING4 and inserting I.-"- xn? Battisto Gigliotti Hughes James Amend Sec. 1304, page 22, line 9, by striking out "1304" and inserting ..-.1'303 Acosta Cohen, I.. I. Olaa Reger Amend Sec. 1305, page 22, line 11, by striking out "1305" Bush 0'I)onnell Petram and insertlug 1304

The question was determined in the affirmative, and the On the question, motion was agreed to. Will the House agree to the amendments?

BILLS ON THIRD THE SPEAKER PRO TEMPORE CONSIDERATION CONTINUED I (PHYLLIS MUNDY) PRESIDING The House proceeded to third consideration of SB 683, PN I The SPEaXER pro tempo=. On the question, the Chair 1780. entitled: recognizes Mr. O'Brien. MI. O'BRIEN. Thank you, Madam Speaker. An Act establishing parole procedures; providing for the I going initiate the 10-second rule. powers and duties of the Department of Corrections, the Penusyl- am to vania Board of Probation and Parole and the Pennsylvania This amendment deletes earned time. I ask for your Commission on Sentencing; creating the Office of Victim support. Thank you. Advocate; providing for work time and earned time; and amending The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair thanks the gentle- the act of August 6, 1941 (P. L. 861, No. 323). entitled, as amended, "An act to create a uniform and exclusive system for the man very much. administration of parole in this Commonwealth; providing state The Chair recognizes Mr. Caltagirone. probation services; establishing the 'Pennsylvania Board of Mr. CALTAGIRONE. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Probation and Parole'; conferring and defining its jurisdiction, duties, powers and functions; including the supervision ofpersons I will make it just as short. placed upon probation and parole in certain designated cases; It has been an agreed-to amendment. 1 ask for your support. providing far the method of appointment of its members; regulat- The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair recognizes Mr. ing the appomtment, removal and discharge of its officers, clerks James. and employes; dividing the Commonwealth into administrative districts for purposes of probation and parole; fixing the salaries Mr. JAMES. Thank you, Madam Speaker. of members of the board and of certain other officers and Well. I mess I will make it real short. too. cmp1oyr.s theroot; njaklng v~olails>nrdt'ccria~n pnl, ~stuniof lh~. ~a&peaker, I would hope that we defeat this amend- act ml~rlen~eenors.pro\!Jlng penall1r.s therci~~r,2nd lor dlher cognate purposes. and making an appropriation." further providing ment, because I think it is a good management tool and this is for sentencing; and making repeals. something that the Corrections Commissioner wanted. Howev- er, there is a lot of discussion on it. However, I would think On the question. that if we are going to have a true sense of reform, we need to Will the House agree to the bill on third consideration? have some earned time in there as a management tool. Mr. O'BRIEN offered the following amendments No. The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair thanks the gentle A5012: man. Amend Title, page I, line 5, by striking out "providing for The Chair recognizes Mr. Freeman. work time and earned time;" Mr. FREEMAN. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Amend Sec. 102, page 3, lines 17 through 25, by str~kingout Madam Speaker, if the maker of the amendment ddgive "It is a" in line 17, all of lines 18 through 24 and "Board of Probation and Parole." in line 25 us some detail as to what the amendment does. I realize the Amend Sec. 103... aaEe - 4. lines I1 throu~h- 22. bv strikin~- out gentleman, Mr. James, did touch on it briefly, but I think it is all of said lines important for this House to vote in an informed fashion by Amend Scc. 701, page 9, line 13, by inserting a period after "commutation" knowing what we are voting for. So I would urge the prime Amend Soc. 701, page 9. lines 13 and 14. by striking out ", sponsor to give us an idea of what the amendment does. minus any earned time as provided for in section 901 for which The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair thanks the gentle- the offender is eligible." man. Amend Sec. 704, page 13. lines 22 through 24, by striking out "If recommitted. the" in line 22. all of line 23 and "good Mr. O'Brien. standing but with no credit for delinquent time." in line 24' Mr. O'BRIEN. Madam Speaker, very simply, this amend- Amend Sec. 704, page 14. lines 9 through 12, by striking out ment deletes the eamed-time provisions in SB 683. I think "If' in line 9, all of lines 10 and 11 and "delinquent time." in line I2 everyone is familiar with what earned time is, and I ask for Amend BdI, page 16, llnes 9 through 30; pages 17 and 18, support of the amendment. lines 1 through 30; page 19, lines 1 through 27, by str~kingout all I believe this is an agreed-to amendment, and I ask for of said lines an said pages your support. 2394 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE DECEMBER 15

The SPEAKER pm tempore. The Chair thanks the gentle- Durham kh Ryan zug man and recognizes Mr. Kukovich. Egolf ~pscovitz Ssotoni Evans Levdansky Sather Dew-, KUKOVICH. Speaker. Mr. Thank you, Madam Fairchild Lloyd Saumo Speaker I have been a supporter of the concept of earned time as ~~jt Lucyk b long as I have been here, and I have sponsored legislation to do so, but in the interests of time, what is crucial here is I NAY S-6 think some of the other amendments that some members have cam Jam- Richardson Washingtoo prepared will be withdrawn if this amendment goes in. There Hughes Kirkland are some other aspects of this legislation that are important and NOT VOTING-2 we need to get through. I believe in eamed time, but I am agliotti Mark-k going to vote for Mr. O'Brien's amendment, and that should close out the debate, I think, on the rest of the bill and then we EXCUSED-7 C can move on. Acosta Cohcn, L. L Olasr Rieger I would ask for a "yes" vote. Bush O'Donnell Petrarca The SPEAKER pm tempore. The Chair thanks the gentle- man. The question was determined in the affirmative, and the On the question recurring, amendments were agreed to. Will the House agree to the amendments? On the question, The following roll call was recorded: Will the House agree to the bill on third consideration as amended? YEAS-188 Mr. O'BRIEN offered the following amendments No. Adolph Fargo Lynch Saylor A5019: Allen Fmr Maitland Scheptz Wl Fee Manderino Schuler Amend Title, page 1. lines 5 through 22, by striking out "; Mmng Fiehta Marslco Scrimti and amending the act" in line 5, all of lines 6 through 21, and Baker Fleagle Masland Semml "providing" in line 22 and inserting Barley Flick Mayelaik Serafini and Batti* Freeman McCall Smith. B. Amend Bill, page 9, by inserting between lines 4 and 5 Bebkc-Jon- Gamble McGsehan Srrdth, S. H. Section 503. Exclusive powers of board. Belardi Ganoon McNally Snyder, D. W. (a) Decisional powers.-The board has exclusive power to Belfanti Geid Melio StPback parole and reparole, to commit and recommit for violations of Birmelin George Merr~ Stairs parole and to discharge from parole all persons sentenced by any Bishop Gerlach MicNovlc Steelman court in this Commonwealth to imprisonment, in any prison or Blaum Gladeck Mi-e Stighner penal institution of this Commonwealth, whether a State or county BoYes Godshall Mihalich St61 penitentiary, prison or penal institution, as provided in this act. Brown Gordner Miller Stem (b) Supervisory powers.-The board has exclusive power to Bunt Gmitra Mundy Stetler supervise any person sentenced to a maximum period of less than Butkovitz G~ppo Murphy Stish two years and placed on parole by any court of record if the court. by special order, directs supervision by the board. A case under Buxtoo Haluska Nailor Strittmaner - Caltaemne Hanoa Nickol Shlrla this subsection shall be known as a special case, and the authority Cqpbisosa Harley Nyce Sm of the board with regard thereto shall be the same as provided in Camne Hasay O'Brien Tanpetti the act of August 6, 1941 (P.L.861, No.323). referred to as the Cawley Hennessq. Oliver Taylor, E. Z. Pennsylvania Board of Probation and Parole Law, with regard to Cessar lfemn Penel Taylor, J. parole cases within one of the classifications set forth in that law. Chadwisk Hershey PesO Tilomas Except for such special cases, the powers and duties conferred on Civera Hess Pecmne Tigue the board under the Pe~sylvaniaBoard of Probation and Parole Clark HuIchinson Penit Tomlinson Law shall not extend to persons sentenced for a maximum period ClyrnR ltkin Phillips Trello of less than two years; and nothing contained in that law shall Coben, M. Jadlowiee Piccda Tnch prevent a sentencing court from paroling any person sentenced to Colafella Jamlin Pistella True an aggregate maximum period of less than two years as provided Colaizm Josephs PiUs Tulli in section 501. Conti Kaisar Plans Ulisna (c) Consecutive sentences.-If an offender is serving Comell Kasunic Reston Vane consecutive sentences which have an aggregated maximum term of less than two years, parole shall not commence until the Conigso Keller Raymond Van Home offender has been paroled from every consecutive sentence which Cowell Kenney Reber Veon comprises the aggregated term of confinement. Such terms of COY Kin% Reinard Vitali parole shall be served in consecutive order. curry Krebs Ritter Waugh (d) Scope.-The power of the board to parole shall extend dale^ Kukech Roberts Williams to prisoners sentenced to definite or flat sentences. DeLuca LaGmta Robinson Wogao Amend Bill. page 19, lines 28 through 30; page 20. lines 1 ='enQV hub Roebuck Wcrmiak through 30; page 21, lines 1 through 12, by striking out all of said Dmt Laughlin Rohrer Wright, D. R. lines on said pages Lawless Rooney Wright, M. N. Dehy Amend Sec. 1303, page 22, by inserting between lines 6 and Dooatucd Ledem Rubley YandriJevits 7 Druce Lee Rudy Ynvds LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE

Sectron 17 ofthe act of August 6, 1941 (P.L.861, No.323). Belad - ~ -~ Smith, S. H. referred to as the Pennsylvania Board of Probation and Parole Belfanti George Mffieehao Snyder, D. W. Law. Bimvlin Gerlach McNally Staback Amend Sec. 1303, page 22, line 7, by strlking out all of said Bishw Gladeck Mdio Slain line and inserting- Blaum Godsball Meny Steel- (b) Inconsistent.- Boyes Gordner Michlovic SteighM (I) Sections 1 through 8, I0 through 12, I5 thmugh Brow GnUm Mi-e Steil 16.2,17.1 through 23.25 through 27, 29 through 35 and 37 But GW Mihalich Stem of the act of August 6, 1941 (P.L.861. No.323), referred to Butkovib Halush Miller Wler as the Pennsylvania Board of Probation and Parole Law, are Bwoo Hanoa Mundy Stish reoealed insbfar as they are inconsistent with this act. Caltagirone Hadey Murphy , strinmsm (2) All other acts and parts of acts are Cappsbianca Hasay Nilor Shuln Cam Hennew Nichl sm On the question, Carooe Heman Nyse TmM Cawley Hdey O'B"m Taylor, E. Z. Will the FIouse agree to the amendments? C-r Hess Oliver Taylor, 1. Chadwrck Hughes Penel Thomas The SPEAKER pro tempore. On the question, the Chair Civera HuIchinson Pesci Tigue recognizes Mr. O'Brien. Clark ltkin Phne Tomlinm Mr. O'BRIEN. 'Ihank you, Madam Speaker. Clymer Jadlowis Peait Trello Again in the spirit of the 10-second rule, this is merely a Cohen. M. lames Phillips Trich Colafella Jamlin Piccola Tme technical amendment that is agreed to by Representative Colaino Ioqhs Pistella Tulli Caltagimne and Representative Piccola, the chairmen of the Cooti Kaiser Pias Uliana Judciary Committee. 'Thank you. Comell Ka-e Plm vmce The SPEAKER pm tempore. lhe Chair thanks the gentle- Conigao Kdler PRsroo Van Home Cowell Kenney Raymond vew man and recognixs Mr. James. coy King Reba Vitdi Mr. JAMES. Thank you, Madam Speaker. cw Kirkland Rdnsrd wasbiogtoa I just would like to know, what does the amendment do? Daley Krebs Richardson waugh Mr. O'BRIEN. Madam Speaker, this amendment merely DeLuca Kukovich Rim William msey LaGmtta Rokls wwn cleans up some language for amendments that were recently Dmt hub Robinson Wmiak accepted in the Judiciary Committee. It just makes sure that the brmody LaugMio Roebuck W"gh\ D. R bill is consistent throughout. It is conforming language. Donatucd Lawless Rok Wright, M. N. Druse Ledem bne~ Yanddmits Mr. JAMES. I still do not know what that means. Durham Lee Rubley Yewic Tbe SPEAKER prn tempore. The Chair thanks the gentle- Egolf Leh Rudy zu% man. Evans hovitz Ryan Mr. JAMP:S. Madam Speaker? Fairchild Levdamky SDntoai Dew-, The SPEAKER pro tempore. Mr. James is recognized. Fajt Lloyd SaLheI speaker Fargo Mr. JAMES. Does that mean the same as a technical amendment, because I never heard of that before. NAYS4 Thank you. lhank you, Madam Speaker. NOT VOTING-I The SPEAKER pm tempore. The Chair recognizes Chair- man Caltagirone. Mr. CALTAGIRONE. I just wanted to reiterate, there was a lot of cleanup in the technical language that had to conform AwJta to other sections of the bill. I concur with Representative Bush O'Brien. The SPEAKER pm tempore. The Chair thanks the gentle- man. The question was determined in the affirmative, and the amendments were agreed to. On the question recurring, Will the House agree to the amendments? On the question recurring, Will the House agree to the bill on third consideration as The following roll call was recorded: amended? YEAS-195 Bill as amended was aped to. Adolph Farmer Lucyk Saurman The SPEAKER pro tempore. This bill has been considered Allen Fee Lynch Saylor on three different days and agreed to and is now on final Argall Fichter Maitland Sch& Armstrong Fleagle Mandenno Schuler passage. Baker Flick Markosek Scnmenti The question is, shall the bill pass finally? Barley Freeman Marsico Smunel Banisto Gamble Masland Serafini Bebko-Jones Cannon Mayemik Smith, B. 2396 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE DECEMBER 15

REMARKS SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD Baker FIae Maodaino Scrimenti 1 Barlev nick Markwek Swmet The SPEAKER pro tempore. On the bill, the Chau 1 B~L ~rawnan Music0 smilh, B. recognizes Mr. ~'~rien. Bebkdanes Gamble Masland Smith, S. H. Belardi Gsnnon McCaII Snyder, D. W. t Mr. O'BRIEN. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Belfanti Oeid McCeehao shhck Again in the spirit of the 10-second rule, I support the bill Bi-lio George McNally Staim and will submit my remarks for the record Thank you. Bishop Galash Melio Steelman The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair thanks the gentle- Gladeck Merry Steighrer ED Godshall Mishlwic~ ~ Stem- ~- man. Bunt Gordner Mimnie SteUer Butkovltz Gmitra Mihalich Stisb Mr. O'BRIEN submitted the following remark for the Bmn oluppo Miller StrittmsUer kgislative Joumat: Cslbgimoe Haluska Murphy Sblrla 1 Cappshanca Hanoa Nailor Suna I support SB 683 because I believe its overriding objective is Cm Hadqr Nick01 Tangmi w to keep violent offenders incarcerated longer. This bill reforms 1 Cawley Henn==Y N~ce Taylor, E. Z. our sentencinc- and narole svstems to orovide a svstem which is cm Hnrnao O'B"en Taylor. I. pred~ctableand effect~vsin deterring crime to the extent possible Chadwick Hershey Olivw bs by keeping violent crun~nalsoff the street for longer ptr~odsut' Civera Hesa Penel Tigue time. Clark Hukhinsoo Pesi Todinson The key to this reform is the repeal of the existing rule that a Clymer Itkin Petrone Tslla minimum sentence may not exceed one-half of the maximum Cohen, M. lsdlowie Pemt Trich sentence. Judges will no longer be subject to this restriction when Colafella Jmlin Phillips Tme sentencing PemsylvaniaS most violent criminals - those which Coliuaa Josepb Picsoln Tulli are classified in the legislation as "high risk dangerous offenders." Conti Kdaer Pislell. Uliana Instead of a 10- to 20-year sentence for a fust-degree felony, a Comell Kasunic Pitts Vaace judge will be able to sentence that criminal to 15 to 20 years, or Carrigan Keller Plptts Van Home 19 to 20, or a flat 20-year sentence. Cowell Kw Reston Veon The public safety of our citizens must be the foremost goal of COY Kin8 Raymond Vitali our criminal justice system. That system fails when it releases Kirkland Reba Waugh violent criminals early. The change provided by SB 683 will curry Ddey Krebs Reinsrd Williams empower our judges and require our prison system to keep violent DeLuca Kulrwish Utter offenders for longer periods of time. We must achieve that goal wow Dew=Y LaGmtta Roberts Wcrmiak because if they are not in prison, they will be in ow communities Dent Laub Roebuck W"& D. R committiug more violent crime. Dnmody Laughlin Rohrer Wright, M. N. Don.l"cci Lawless mney Yandriswils Tbe SPEAKER pm tempore. The Chair recognizes Mr. Dmce Lederer Rubley YawEic James. Durham Lee Rudy zug Mr. JAMES. ?hank you, Madam Speaker. Egolf Leh RYan In the interests of time, again, it is a sense of reform but it Evans Lcscovitz santoni Fairchild Levdansky Satha is not a tlue sense of reform because it does not have an Fajt earned-time component so therefore, I cannot support the bill. P. The SPEAKER pm tempore. nEe Chair recognizes Repre- Hughes Richdmn sentative Ritter. James Robinson Ms. RITER Thank you, Madam Speaker. Mundy Serafini I would like to urge the membem to vote for SB 683 now NOT VOTING-2 that the earnedtime provision has been removed. That was the Giglicai Mayemik major problem I had with the bill. A lot of changes were made not only in the Senate but also in the House Judiciary Commit- tee that will make this bill stronger for victims, better for Acosta Cohen, L. I. Olaz Riega victims' rights and for victims' advocates all across the State, Bush O'Domell Petrma t and I would urge the members to vote "yes." The SPEAKER pm tempore. The Chair thanks the lady. The majority required by the Constitution having voted in On the question recurring, the affirmative, the question was determined in the affirmative Shall the bill pass finally? and the bill passed finally. The SPEAKER pm tempore. Agreeable to the provisions Ordered, That the clerk return the same to the Senate with of the Constitution, the yeas and nays will now be taken. the information that the House has passed the same with amendment in which the concurrence of the Senate is request- YEAS-I 83 ed. Adolph Fargo Lloyd Sawn Allen Farmer Leyk Saylor Fee Lpcb Schedz Amulmng Fishter Maitlsod Schuler 1993 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE 2397 2398 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE DECEMBER 15

(1) The addilion of 42 Pa.C.S. 8 8311 shall take ClYrner Jadlowiec Pettit Trello effect immediately. Coben. M. Jams Pbillim Trich (2) The remainder of this act shall take effect July Colafella Iarolin Piccola True 1, 1994. Cdai.aT0 Josephs Pidella Tulli V Cooti Kaiser Pins Ulisna On the question, Corndl Kasunic Plans Vance agree Comigan Keller Prestoo Van Home Will the House to the amendments? Cowell Kemey Raymond veoo The SPEAKER pm tempore. On the question, the Chair coy King Reber Vitsli curry Kirkland Reinard Warbingtoo recognizes Mr. Lloyd Ddey Kr& Richardron Wan& Mr. LLOYD. Thank you, Madam Speaker. DeLuca KuLavlch RitIer Williams This amendment would require that if a movie producer or Dew LaGmtta Rotmls Wogao Dent a television company or a magadne publisher were to buy the Laub Robinso wcrmink Den==+ Laughlin Roeh~k Wrigh\ D. R ..r stoly of a crime from a convicted criminal, that notice would Donahlcci Lawless Rohrer Wright, M. N. he given to the victims of that crime and they would be able DNce Ledem Rmney Y*nd,isevlts to file a lawsuit against the proceeds of that sale for any Durham Lee Rubley Ynvnc Egolf Lch Rudy =UP money damages that they would be able to pmve occwTed Evans Lescwitz RY~ because of that crime. Fainhiid Levhsky Ssntooi This legislation replaces the current "Son of Sam" law, Fsjt Lloyd Ssk which was declared unconstitutional in a New York case by FOP the U.S. Supreme Court 2 years ago. I would ask for an affirmative vote. The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair thanks the gentle- NOT VOTING-I man. Gi@icAti The Chair recognizes Mr. Caltagimne. Mr. CALTAGIRONE. Thank you, Madam Speaker. I would urge the members also to suppolt this amendment. Thank you. 'he SPEAKER pm tempore. The Chair thanks the gentle- man. The question was determined in the affirmative, and the amendments were agreed to. On the question mcurring, Will the House agree to the amendments? On the question, Will the House agree to the bill on third consideration as The following mll call was reconb3 amended? YEAS-195 The SPEAKER pm tempore. The Chair recognizes Mr. Adolph F- Lucyk Sam Druce. Fee Alleo Lynch Saylor Mr. DRUCE. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Argsll Pisbler Maitlrnd Sch& -g flde MlndRino khuler My amendment, I would ask if the House would just look Baker Flick Mar- Scrimenti at this and keep it in mind. As we debated all day today about Barley Frea~n Msrsiw Semmel how to deal with violent crime, this amendment sets up a Barndo Gamble Masland smiioi BebIro-Jam Ganoon Msyemik SndIh, B. reasonable time schedule for which the Governor of our Bola"$ Geid MrCall Smith, S. H. Commonwealth today and in the future should sign and issue Belfrnti George Mffieebao Snyder, D. W death wanants. Bimlio Oalsch McNally SlahCk We do have a death penalty provision in this State. We do Bishop Gladesk Melio Stain not employ it. We should. If we were really serious about ) Blwm GO~S~II Mew Steelman eoyss Gordoer Michlovlc Steigbeer doing anything about violent crime, we would look at amend- Bmwn Gluitza Micozde Steil ments and legislation like my colleague, Representative Bunt G~ppo Mihslich Stera McGeehan, has introduced, which 1 have cosponsored. But Bulkwik Haluskn Miller Staler Buaion Hma M~dy Stiah word has come hack fmm the Governor's Office that if this Caltagime Harley Murphy strinmatter language is attached to this Senate hill, it will face a veto, and Cspplbisnu Ha-Y Nailor Sturls I have promised my colleague, Mr. O'Brien, that I would not Cam Hemcrsey Nickol s- ' submarine the good hill he and others have helped put togeth- Camoe H~""~II Nw Tangreni Cawley Hemhey O'Brien Taylor, E. Z. er. But 1 will say this: 1 think we should revisit this kind of Cessar HRV~ Oliver Taylor, J. amendment or the legislation Mr. McGeehan has introduced if Chadwick Hugbes Pnzel Thomas we are serious about doing something on violent crime. Civm Hukbinsn Pesci Tigue Clark ltkin P-ne Tadinson I withdraw my amendment, Madam Speaker. LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair thanks the gentle- 1 NOT VOTING-2 man On the question recuning, Will the House agree to the bill on third consideration as Acosta Cohen, L. I. 01- Ee%er amended? Bush O'Donnell Pdma Bill as amended was agreed to. The SPEAKER pro tempore. This bill has been considered The majority required by the Constitution having voted in on three different days and agreed to and is now on final the affirmative, the question was determined in the affirmative passage. and the bill passed finally. The question is, shall the bill pass finally? Ordered, That the clerk return the same to the Senate with Agreeable to the provisions of the Constitution, the yeas the information that the House has passed the same with and nays will now be takcn. amendment in which the concurrence of the Senate is request- ed. YEAS-1 89 Adolph Fargo Lloyd Saylor * * * Allen Farmer h~yk Scheetz Awl1 Fee Lpeh Schuler The House proceeded to third consideration of HB 1956, Armstrong Fichts Maitland Scrimenti PN 2643, entitled: Baker Fleagle Mandenno Semmel Barley Flick Markosek Saafiri An Act amending Title 20 (Decedents, Estates and Fiduciaries) Banisto Fmmao Mamco Smith, B. of the Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes, further providing for BebkeJones Gamble Masland Smith, S. N. the form and implementation of a power of anorney and for Belad Gamon McCall Snyder. D. W. declarations governing life-sustaining treatment; and providing for Belfaoti Geist McGeehan Staback anatomical gifts. Birmelin George McNally Stairs Bishop Gerlach Melio Steelmu On the question, Blaurn Gladeck Meny Steiher Will the House agree to the bill on third consideration? Bay- Godshall Michlovic Steil Mr. BIRMELIN offered the following amendments No. Brown Gordner Micozie Stem Bunt Gruitzs Mihalich Stecler A4212: CNW Miller Stisb Halusb Mundy s(nllmam Amend Sec. 5 (Sec. 8641), page 23, by inserting between lines 15 and 16 Hanna Murphy Sbda Harley Nailor Sm (2) The coroner or medical examiner has made a Hasay Nickol Tangetti reasonable effort to contact nersons listed in section 861 1 Hennessey Tsylor, E. Z. (relating to persons who mai execute anatomical gift). Nyce Amend Sec. 5 (Sec. 8641), page line by out Hemvln O'Brien Taylor, J. 23, 16, striking "(2)" and inserting Hershey Oliver Thomas (2, Civaa Hess Peml Tip 1,) Amend Sec. 5 (Sec. 8641), page 23, line 19, by striking out Clark Hugbes P& Tomlinsao "(3)" and inserting Clymer Hutchinson Petrone Trello Coheo, M. Itkin Pettit Trich (4) Colafella JadloUnec Phillips True Colaim Jarolin Piccola Tulli On the question, Conti losephs Pistella Ulisna Will the House agree to the amendments? Come11 Kaiser Pins Vaoce I Comigan Kasunic Plans Van Home I The SPEAKER pro tempore. On the question, the Chair Cowell Keller Preston Veoo recognizes Mr. BiGelin. Kenney Raymond Vitali COY Mr. BIRMELIN. Thank you, Madam Speaker. cuny K~ng Reber waugb Daley K~rkland Reinard Williams My amendment changes the very next to the last page, page DeLuca Krebs btter Wogan 23, dealing with those individuals who are having autopsies 1)empsoy Kukovich Roberts Wmliak done on, and it requires the medical examiner or the coroner Dent IaGrotta Roebuck Wright. D. R Dedy Laub Rohrer Wright, M. N. to try to make a good-faith effort to contact the deceased Donatucci Laublin Rwney Yandnsevlts relatives to make sure that there is no problem with the meal Druee Lawless Rubley Yewnc transplant taking place. Durham IAerer Rudy Zug I believe it is an agreed-to amendment. It is consistent with Egolf Lee Ryan Evans Leh Santori DeWeese. the other changes in the bill that have modified the presumed Fairchild Leswvitz Sather Speaker consent specifications, and I would ask for a positive vote. Fajt Levdansky Saumo The SPEAKER pm tempore. The Chair thanks the gentle- NAYS-5 man and recognizes Mr. Cohen. Mr. COHEN. Madam Speaker, this is an agreed-to amend- Cam Richardson Kohinsoo Washinglon James ment. I urge everyone's suppott. LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE DECEMBER 15

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair thanks the gentle- The question was determined in the affirmative, and the man. I amendments were agreed to. On the question recurring, On the question, @ Will the House agree to the amendments? Will the House agree to the bill on third considelation as amended? The following roll call was recorded: Mr. ROBINSON offered the following amendments No. A421 8:

Adolph Fa- Luvk Savrman Amend Sec. 5 (Sec. 8622). page 20. lines 18 through 30, by Allen Fee Lpcb Saylor striking out all of said lines and inserting ArBsll Rchter Maitland Ssb& (1) 10% of the total fund may be expended annually Fleagle Manderioo Scbuler by Ule Department of Health for reasonable hospital and Baker Flick Markosek Scrimenti other medical expenses, funeral expenses and incidental b Barley Freeman Maria Semmel expenses incurred by the donor or donor's family in cannec- Ballislo Gamble Maslaod Serafini tion with making a vital organ donation. Such expenditures Bebko-Jones Gannoa Mayemik Strdlh, B. shall not exceed $3.000 per donor and shall only be made Beld Gb* MECall Smith, S. H. directly to the funeral home, huspital or other service Belfanti George Mffieehan Snyder, D. W provider related to the donation. No part of the fund shall be Binnelio Gerlach McNally Staback transferred directly to the donor's family, next of kin or Bisbcp Gladsk Melio Stain estate. The advisory committee shall develop procedures, Blaum Godshall men^ Steelnun including the development of a pilot program, necessary for Bayes Gordner Michlovic s1R*er effectuating the purposes of this paragraph. Bmwn GNltVl Micaozie Sleil Amend Sec. 5 (Sec. 8622), page 22, by inserting between Bunt GW Mihalich Stem lines 27 and 28 Butkovitz Haluska Miller Steuer (e) Definition.-As used in this section, the term "vital Buxton Hanna Mundy Stiah organ" means a heart, lung, liver, kidney, pancreas, small bowel, Callqimne Hadey Murphy stnttmalter large bowel or stomach for the purpose of transplantation. Cappabianca Hasay Nailor Sturla Cm Hennessey Nickol Suna On the question, Camne Herman Nyse Tangmi Will the House agree to the amendments? Cswley Hersbey O'Briea Tsylor, E. Z. C-r Hess Oliver Taylor, J. The SPEAKER pro tempore. On the question, the Chair Chadwick Hughes Penel nomas Civm Hutchinson pesci Tiye recognizes Mr. Robinson. Clark Itkin Petmne Tomliosoo Mr. ROBINSON. Madam Speaker, this is an agreed-to ClY- Jadlowi~ Pdit Trello amendment, and I would encourage a positive vote of all Cohen, M. James Phillips Trich members of the House. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Colafella Jamlie Piccola Tme Colaimm Jogphs Pistella Tdli The SPEAKER pro tempore. Does Mr. Cohen seek Conti Kaiser Pitts Uliana recognition on the amendment? Mr. Cohen is recognized. Comell Kasunic Plslb Vsnce Mr. COHEN. Madam Speaker, this amendment makes it Colrigan Keller prestnn Vsn Home possible under some circumstances to help pay the funeral Cwcll Kenney Raymond veoo COY King Reber Vitali expenses of a donor. It is a worthwhile amendment. I urge curry Kirkland Reinard Washington VOW SUDWI1. Doley Krebs Richardson Waugh- SPEAKER pro ternpore. The Chair thanks the gentle- DeLuca Kukovich Rilter William Dempsey LaGmtta Roberts WQW man. Deal hub Robinsan Wozniak MY hughlio Roebuck Wnghl. D. R On the question recuning, Donatvcci hvvless Rohrer Wright, M. N. Will the House agree to the amendments? Dmce Wrer ~OV Yaodnsevits Durham Lee Rubley Yewcic The following roll call was record& Egolf Lch Rudy zug ! Evans Lescwilz Ryan Faimhild Levdansb Santoni DeWeese, Fajt Lloyd Sather Speaker Fargo Adolph Farmer Lucyk Ssu- I Allen Fee Lynch Saylor NAYS-0 Argall Fichter Maillaod %he& Armstmng Fleagle Maoderioo Schuler NOT VOTING-I Baker Flick Markosek Scrimenti Badey Fmman Msrico Semmel GigJ1aI.i Bauislo Gamble Masland Serafini Bebkelones Gsnnon Mayemik Smith, B. Belardi GeiS McCall Smith, S. H. Acosta Cohen, L. 1. Olasz heger Belfaoti George McGeehan Snyder, D. W. Bush O'Donnell Petrama Binnelin Gerlacb McNally Staback Bishop Glade& Melio Stain LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE

Godshall Mew Steelma0 Amend Sec. 5 (Sec. 8619), page 18, lines 17 and 18, by Boyes Gordoer Michlovlc Steighner strikin~out "auestions as to whether the individual" in line 17, all Brow Gruitza Miconie Steil ofline18 and inserting Bunt GI~PP~ Mihalich Stem question shall be Butkovllz Haluska Miller Stetler Amend Sec. 5 (Sec. 8619), page 18, line 20, by striking out Buxton Hanna Mundy Stish "THE FOLLOWING THAT APPLY:" and inserting Calla@ronc Harley MUP~Y Striltmalter if you wish to donate your organs or tissue: Cappabianca Hasay Nailor Sturla Amend Sec. 5 (Sec. 8619), page 18, line 26, by inserting Cam Henoessey Nickol Sum, after "license" Camne Herman Nyce Tangreni or identification card Caw ley Hersbey 0'B"eo Taylor, E. 2. Amend Sec. 5 (Sec. 8619), page 18, line 28, by inserting Cessar Hess Oliver Taylor, J. after "license" Chadwick Ilughes Peml 7bamas or identification card Civera Hutshinson Pesn Tipe Amend Sec. 5 (Sec. 8619). page 18, line 29, by striking out Clark ltkin Parone Tomlinsoo "and" and inserting- Clymer Jadl,,wis Pettit Trello or Cohen, M. James Phillips Trich Amend Sec. 5 (Sec. 8621). page 19, line 8, by striking out Colafella lamlin Piccola Tme "The" and inserting Jusephs Pistella Tulli Beginning as soon as practicable, but no later Cdaim than January 1, 1995, the Conti Kaiser Pius Uliaoa Amend Sec. 5 (Sec. 8621), page 19, lme 9, by insertingafter Cmll Kasunic Platts Vaoee Preston Van Home "license" Corngao Keller or identification card Raymond Veon Cowell Kenney Amend Sec. 5 (Sec. 8621). page~ 19, line 13, by inserting King Reber Vitali . COY after "license" cuny Kirkland Reioard Wasbingkm or identification card Richardson waugh Daley Krebs Amend Sec. 5 (Sec. 8621), page 19, lines 15 and 16, by DeLuca Kukovich Ritter Williams striking out "or any combination therear and inserting Dem~se~ LaGmtta Robe* wow or identification card Dent Laub Kcbinson WcmiaL Amend Sec. 5 (Sec. 8621), page 19, lime 19, by striking nut W"ght, D. R Laughlin Rwbuck "biannually" and inserting Donatucci Lawless RohIer Wright, M. N. monthly Druce mr mney YandriPwits Durham Lee Rubley Yewcic Egolf Leh Rudy Zue On the question, Evans kovrrz Ryan Will the House agree to the amendments? Fairchild Levdansky Santorii DeWeese, Fajt LJoyd Salhn speaker The SPEAKER pro tempore. On the question, the Chair Fargo recognizes Mr. Masland. NAY S-0 Mr. MASLAND. Thank you, Madam Speaker. I believe this is an agreed-to amendment. It makes some NOT VOTING-I technical changes on pages 18 and 19, specifically to include Gigliotti the fact that this notation that you want to be an organ donor can be done on a driver's license or an identification card, plus EXCUSED-7 some other technical amendments. Again, I believe it is agreed Asorta Cohen, L. I. Olw Rieger to. Bush O'Doonell Petrarca The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair recognizes Mr. Cohen. The question was determined in the affirmative, and the Mr. COHEN. This is agreed to. amendments were agreed to. The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair thanks the gentle- man. On the question recurring, Will the House agree to the bill on third consideration as On the question retuning, amended? Will the House agree to the amendments? Mr. MASLAND offered the following amendments No. The following roll call was recorded. A4219: YEAS-195 Amend Sec. 5 (Sec. 8619). page 18. line 9, by inserting after "license" Adolph Fanner h& Saurmaa or identification card Allen Fee Lynch ruylar Amend Sec. 5 (Sec. 8619), page 18, line 14, by inserting &%all Fichter Maitland Schcetl. after "license" Armstmng Flde MPnderino Schuler and identification card Baker Flick Markasek Scnmeoti Amend Sec. 5 (Sec. 8619), page 18. line 16. by striking out Barley Frsemso Mslsiso SBnmel "and" and inserting Baltisto Gamble Marland SBafini or Bebka-Jones Gaonan Maymi): Smith. 8. Belardi Geid MsCsll Seth, S. H. Belfanti George M&n Snyder, 0.W. LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE DECEMBER 15

Bimlin Gerlach McNally %bck Amend Sec. 8, page 24, lines 23 and 24, by striking out Bishop Glsdgk Melio Stairs "December 31, 1994, or" in line 23, all of line 24 and insert in^- slaurn Godshall Merry Staelman in one year. Boyes Gordner Michlovic Sleigbner I Bm Gmilza Miecmie Steil On the question, Bunt Gw Mihalich Slem I Butkovitz Haluska Miller Stetler Will the House agree to the amendments? Buxton Hams Mmdy Stisb Callrgirone Harley MUT~Y Striftmatter The SPEAKER pro tempore. On the question, the Chair Csppabilnca H~Y Nailor Sturla recognizes Mr. Sturla. Cam Hennessey Nickd Suna Mr. STURLA. Madam Speaker, I believe this is an agreed- Cuone Hmn N~ce Tanmi to amendment. It is the result of negotiations between the . Cawley Hwhey O'Brien Taylor, E. Z, C-r Hess Oliver Taylor, 1. Hospital Association and the organ procurement organizations. Chadwick Hughes Peael nomas It does four things: It has the effect of removing the OPO's Civm Hldrhiogoa Pesn Tigue from the hospital policymaking process; it deletes the patient Itkin ' Clark Petmne Tomliosoo name and replaces it with a patient identifier number; it Clymer ladlouiec Pdtit Tnllo Coheo. M. James Phillip Tricb requires that the Commonwealth license OPO'sprior to them Colsfdls Jmlin Piccola Tme initiating quaerly reviews of hospital death records; and it Cokzm losephs Pistells Tulli clarifies that the act becomes effective 1 year afier enactment. Caoti Kaiser Pi* Uliaoa Comell Kasunic Plans Vance The SPEAKER prn tempore. The Chair thanks the gentle- Conigan Keller PRSton Vao Home man. Cowdl Kenney Raymond Veon The Chair recognizes Mr. Cohen. coy King Reber Vitali Mr. COHEN. Tlus is an agreed-to amendment. I urge your Kirklaad Reinard cuny Washington SUppoIt. Ddey Krebs Richardson wau%l DeLufa Kukovlcb Riner Williams The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair thanks the gentle- msey LaGmtta R&s wwn man. Deot Laub Robinsoo Wmiak Dermady Laughlin Raebuck ~"$1, D. R On the question recuning, Do&& Lawless Robrer Wright, M. N Druce Lederer Roonev Yandnsevits Will the House agree to the amendments? Durham Lee R&I& YRVF~E The following roll call was recorded: Egdf Leb Rudy zug Evans Lesovik RY~ Pairchild Levbb Santom DeWeese, YEAS-195 Fajt Lloyd Sather speake Adolph Famr Lucyk Saum Fargo Allen Fee Lwb Saylor Argall Ficbw Maitland Sch& Armstrong Fleagle Manderino Schuler Baker Flick Markosek Scrimenti NOT VOIWG-I Barley Freeman MarPlco Semmel Giglidti Battist0 Gamble Masland Serafini Bebko-Jones Gamon Mayemik Smith, B. Belsrdi Geid McCall Smith. S. H. Belfanti George Mffieehao Snyder. D. W Ad Cohen. L. I. Ola Rieger Bimlin Gerlach McNally Stabsck Bush O'Donnell Pelrwca Bishap Gladeck Melio Stairs Blaum Godshall Meny Steelman Bayes Gardner Michlovie Slei$hner The question was determined in the affirmative, and the Brown GmiV. Miccmie Steil amendments were agreed to. Bunt Gruppo Mihalich Stem Butkovitz Haluska Miller On the question recurring, Buxton Hanna Mundy Csltagirnoe Haxley Will the House agree to the bill on third consideration as Murphy Cambiaoca.. Hasav Nsilor -~-..~Sturla amended? Cam Hennessey Nickol Surra Mr. STURLA offered the following amendments No. Hemn Nyce Tanepni A4943: Cawley Hershey O'Brieo Taylor, E. Z. Cessar Hej~ Oliver Taylor, 1. Amend Sec. 5 (Sec. 8617). page 13, line 18, by striking out Chadwick Hughes Peael Thomas "and an organ procurement organization" Civera Hutchinson PeSn Tigue Amend Sec. 5 (Sec. 8617), page 13, line 28, by striking out Clark Itkin Petrooe Tomlinson "name" and inserting Clymer Jadlowiec Pait Trello identifier number Coben, M. James Phillip Trich Amend Sec. 5 (Sec. 8617), page 15, line 6, by inserting after Colafella Jamlin Piccola True "organization" Colsizm Josephs Pistella Tulli licensed by the Commonwealth Conti Kaiser tins IJliaaa Cornell Kasuoic plans Vaoce LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE comgsn Keller Presfoo Van Home a hearing in Pittsburgh and I was vely impressed, and I think Cowell Kcnney Raymond vmn this is a good amendment and this is a good bill. King Reber Vitali -1 COY The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair thanks the gentle- curry Kirkland Reinard Washington Daley Krebs Richardsoo Waugh I man. DeLusa Kukovlch Ifitla Williams Dem~sqr IaGmtts Robens wogan On the question retuning, Dent hub Robinson Womuak Will the House agree to the amendments? kdy hughlin Roebuck Wright. D. R I Donatucci Lawless Rohrer Wright, M. N. The following roll call was recorded: Druse Lederer Rooney Yandrisevils ( Durham Lee Rublw Yewcic Egolf Leh Rudy zug Evans Lescovltz Ryan Adolph Fargo Lloyd Satber Fairchild Levdansky Santool Dew-, Allen Farme Lwk Ssurmpn Fajt Lloyd Salher Speaker A@ Fee ~psh slyfa Fargo A&mng Fichter Maitland Scheetz Baker Fleaale Mendaim Mula NAY S-0 Barley Fliet Markosek Scrimti Battist0 Freeman M.rsico Semmsl NOT VOTING-1 Bebkc-Jones Gamble Mesland Serafilu Belardi Gsnoon hyemik Smith, B. Giglidti Belfanti Gist McCall Smith, S. H. Bimlio George McGeehao sa*, D. W. Bishop Gerlach McNally StDback Gladeck Melio Stairs Asom Coheo, L. I. Olasz freer Blaum Bush O'Domell Petrarca Boyes Godshall Mew Steelma0 Bmwo Gordoer Miohlovic stipbner The question was determined in the affirmative, and the Bunt GNib Micde Steil amendments were agreed to. Butkovltz GNW Mihalich Stem Buxton Halush Miller Stdler stish On the qucstion recumng, Caltagimne Hanna Mundy Csppabiancs ~adey Murphy stnumatter Will the House agree to the bill on third consideration as Cam Hasay N~IO~ SMa amended? Camne Hennesse~ Nickol sum Mr. COHEN offered the following amendments No. Cawley Henmu N F Tan& Cessar Hamhey O'Brien Taylor. E. Z. A4224: Chamvick Heas Oliver Taylor, 1. Civera Hughes Penel Thomas Amend Bill, page 24, lines 6 through 13. by strlking out all Clark Hutchinson Pesi Tigue of said lines ltiio Pmne Todinson Amend Sec. 7, page 24, line 14, by strlking out "7" and Clymer inserting Cohen, M. Jadlowiec Pail Trich Colafella James Phillip True "h Amend Sec. 8, page 24, line 23. by striking out "8" and Colain0 lamlin Picaola Tulli inserting Conti Iosephs Pistells Ulians 7 Comell Kaiser Pim Vanw Corrigan Kasunic PI& Van Home Cowell Keller Preston Vmn On the question, COY Kaey Raynmnd Vitali Will the House agree to the amendments? curry King Rk w*shi*n Daley Kirkland Reinard Wsugh The SPEAKER pro tempore. On the question, the Chair DeLuca Krebs Richardson Willipms recognizes Mr. Cohen. Dem~sqr Kukwich Ricla wogrn Mr. COHEN. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Dent LaGm Roberts WoPri& Dermcdy Laub Robinmn Wright. D. R This amendment merely simplifies the bill. At the request Dooshlcci Laughlin Uck Wrighf M. N. of the Depement of Public Welfare, it deletes the provision Dmce Lawless Rohrer YandriaMts mandating the Department of Public Welfare to establish Durham LederPr Rmney YRvcic Egolf Lee Rubley zw guidelines for counseling the mentally ill or their guardians on Evaos Leh Rudy organ donor awareness. Fairchild k0vitz Ryan I urge your support of this amendment. Fajt Lwdansky Santoni The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair thanks the gentle- NAYS4 man and recog~zesMr. James. Mr. JAMES. Thank you. Madam Speaker. NOT VOTING-2 1 would just like to say that I spoke to some constituents in Trello my district, and there was a lot of controversy in regards to the organ donor transplant. I had the opportunity to participate in EXCUSELh7 Cohen, L. 1. Olssz O'Donoell Petmma 2404 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE DECEMBER 15

The question was determined in the affirmative, and the Amend Sec. 5 (Sec. 8617). page 15, line 1, by str~kingout amendments were agreed to. "(e)" and inserting ( f) On the question recurring, Amend Sec. 5 (Sec. 8617). page 15, line 6, by striking out "(0" and inserting % Will the House agree to the bill on third consideration as (8) amended? Amend Sec. 5 (Sec. 8617). page 15, line 17, by striking out Mr. COHEN offered the following amendments No. "(8)" and inserting (h) A4972: Amend Sec. 5 (Sec 8617), page 15, by inserting between Amend Sec. 5 (Subchapter Analysis), page 4, lines 27 and lines 26 and 27 28, by striking out all of said lines and inserting "Tissue procurement provider." A facility which is engaged 8601. Legislative intent. in the recovery, processing, storage or distribution of banked 8602. Definitions. human tissues such as bone, skin, ligaments, cartilage, tendons 5 8601. Legislative intent. and other musculoskeletal tissues and which is subject to regula- tion and required to register with the United States Food and Drug (a) To increase donations.-It is the intent of this chapter to Administration (FDA)under Emergency Regulations of December increase voluntary organ and tissue donation within this Common- 14, 1993, as well as any final FDA regulations promulgated wealth by increasing public education and by streamlining the thereafter. ~h~ donor referral and request process. does not include facilities which recover, process, store or distribute transplantable organs. (b) To ensure compliance.-In addition to the Federal Amend Sec. 5, page 23, by inserting between lines 1 and 2 regulatory scheme for organ donation as provided for in the Public 8624. Prohibited activities, Health Service Act (58 Stat. 682, 42 U.S.C. 4 273 el seq.). the Pending the effective date of this act, no organ procurement intent of this legislation is to ensure compliance with a system of organization fail to make nondiscriminating arrangements routine referrals made by organ procurement organizations which with tissue procurement providers. can effectively determine suitability for organ and tissue dona- Amend Sec. 8. page 24, lines 23 and 24, by striking out all tions. of said lines and inserting (c) To eliminate multiple solicitations.-As a matter of Section 8. This act shall take effect as follows: policy, the General Assembly fidsthat families of potential organ (I) The addition of 20 Pa.C.S. 5 8624 shall take or tissue donors should not be overburdened with multiple effect immediately. solicitations for organ and tissue donations. In recognition of the sensitive circumstances faced by families of donors, it is the intent (2) This section shall take effect immediately. The remainder of this act shall take effect of this legislation to provide for an efficient means of referral (3) December 31, 1994, or immediately, whichever is later. while also minimizing donation requests. It is desirable, therefore, that contact between families and donation procurement entities should be limited to a single trained individual. On the question, (d) Applicability.-Nothing in this chapter is intended to Will the House agree to the amendments? disnlace existina tissue banks within this Commonwealth~- or to pre'clude the creation of new tissue banks, consistentwith any The SPEAKER pro tempore. On the amendment, the Chair Federal regulations. Nothing in this chapter is intended to provide any unfair advantage for one tissue procurement entity over other recognizes Mr. Cohen. like ornanizations reaardine the referral of donors for tissue Mr. COHEN. Thank you, Madam Speaker. c~~ ~- Madam Speaker, this amendment is my attempt to reach a 8602. Defiitions. workable compromise between the organ procurement organi- Amend Sec. 5 (Subchapter Analysis), page 6, by inserting between lines 27 and 28 zations and the tissue banks. It allows tissue banks to have 8624. Prohibited activities. opportunities to get tissues from the OPO's without fear of Amend Sec. 5 (Sec. 8617), page 14, by inserting after line discrimination. 5u-" There may further work that needs to done on this (e) Tissue procurement.- be be (1) All tissue recovered shall first be utilized far amendment in the Senate. I urge your suppolt of this in order transplantation purposes. All acute care general hospitals to advance this process to the Senate and to final resolution. shall choose tissue procurement providers. Hospitals shall The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair thanks the gentle- notifv their renional ornan nrocurement ornanization of their choice of tis&e proc&e&nt providers.-When a hospital man and recognizes Mr. Seratini. chooses an organ procurement organization or its affiliate Mr. SERAFINI. Madam Speaker, I would appreciate for tissue ~rocurement.the hosvitai shall choose at least one support for this amendment. Representative Cohen and additionaf nonaffiliate tissue drocurement orovider. When Representative Belardi worked long and way in W more than one tlssue procurement provlder m an acute care hard to find a general hospltal has been chosen, the organ. procurement. which we could survive with the Pennsylvania Tissue Bank, organization shall administer a rotation process between and I appreciate the suppolt on this side. Thank you. those providers developed in conjunction with tissue The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair thanks the gentle- procurement providers. (2) The regional organ procurement organization. man and recognizes Mr. Belardi. with the assistance of tissue procurement providers, shall Mr. BELARDI. Thank you, Madam Speaker. submit an annual report to the General Assembly on the A few weeks ago this legislation was postponed on final following: passage with the House leadership requesting myself and the (i) The number of tissue donors. (ii) The number of tissue Drocurements for prime sponsor of this legislation, Mark Cohen. to negotiate k transplantation. some type of compromise to ow concerns on this issue. (iii) The number of tissue procurements recovered for research by each tissue procurement provider operating in this Commonwealth. 1993 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE

This amendment is the result of several very intense Belfanti h* sessions with all interested parties; in fact, all-day sessions for Gerlach Merkosek :!$ Gladeck Mayemik swi many days. ~laum ~odshall McCall Stiab Though it may not be unanimously supported by all sides, byes Goher h4cOgh.n Shlrla Representative Mark Cohen and I believe it meets, as best as Bulkon'Z Gmitza Melio S- Bdon Hanna Miller Tan@ possible, the concerns of everyone involved: organ pmure- Caltaamoe Hasay Mundy Taylor, I. ment organizations, tissue hanks, and hospitals. Cappabiaoca Herman O'Brien Tigue Madam Speaker, 1 know we are addressing an issue that is Cam Hemhey Oliver Todinson vital, and I believe that all parties and all members of this Hess Pelme Trello Cawley Hudes Phillip Tlicb House of Representatives want to do what is best for the Clymer ltkin Pitla vaon citizens of this Commonwealth. Coben, M. James Prraon Waslungton Madam Speaker. I report to this Rouse, the Cohen-Belardi- Coldella J-lin Richardson William Serafini amendment is the result of intense negotiations that we CO1aim Jm+s Ritter Wemi& Conti Kasvnis Robots wnght, D. R believe will go a long way to guarantee more equitable access Kell~ R&nsoo Wright. M. N. to a scarce, very valuable resource. It will protect hospitals and cuw ~enney bney Yandrisevi(s the citizens of this Commonwealth by allowing competitive Daey Kirldand Rubley Ynvcic interests, here in Pennsylvania to fairly meet the need of tissue DeLYCa LaGmtfa Rudy ZUK DRnpJey Laub Santoni recovery without interfering with the critical goal of this bill, Dd,, Laughlin Sather Dew- which is to promote and advance organ and tissue donation. ~ooatucn ~awless Saum s*= Thank you, Madam Speaker. I ask my colleagues to please kdemr Scnmti support ths compromise amendment. NAYS-8 1 The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair thanks the gentle- Adolph Fishter Masland Robrer man. Allen Fleagle McNally Ryan The Chair recognizes Mr. Masland. Ardl Flick Merry Saylor Mr. MASLANII. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Armstmog Gamble Mishlovic Sched7. Madam Speaker, I will be very brief. Baker Gannoo Mic-e khuler Brown GNW Mihalich 53-1 1 know this amendment will pass, and I know this hill will Bunt H~IUS~ Murphy Snyder, D. W. move ahcaQ as well it should, and I commend Representative Cessar Harley Nailor Slnim Cohen for all his work, and 1 commend his staff for allowing Henopssey Nick01 Steil me to participate to the extent that they have. But unfortunate- Civera Hutchinson Nyce Stem Clark Jadlowlec Penel slrinmtter ly, I do not think that this amendment is proper, and I wish to Comell Kaiser PeSn Taylor, E 2. formally put that on the record so that when this bill is Conigan King Pettit nomas addressed in the Senate or in a conference committee, it can be Cowell Wr Pisola True Kukovich Pistella Tulli addressed properly. I do not think we are doing the right thmg Dent Durham Levdsnsky Plans Uliana here. Basically, we are guaranteeing a market share to the Egolf Lynch Raymond Vaace tissue banks. I do not think that is what we want to do. That Fairchild Maitland Reber Van Home is what this amendment does. Fail Manderina Renard Waugh Fargo Marsim Rrrbuck wogan Secondly, the OPO'sare Federally mandated. The Federal Farmer Government says where these OPO'sare and what their region is. The hospitals already have to contact the OPO's. The hill, NOT VOTING-2 before the amendment, says that the hospitals have to contact ViWi the OPO's and work out the process with them as to whether this individual is appropriate for organ donation. EXCUSED-7 So again, I want the bill to move ahead. 1 hope that is A~osta Cohen, L. I. Olasz addressed in the Senate. Thank you. Bush O'Donnell Pdrasa The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair thanks the gentle- man. The question was determined in the affirmative, and the On the question recurring, amendments were agreed to. Will the House agree to the amendments? On the question recurring, The following roll call was recorded: Will the House agree to the bill on third consideration as amended? YEAS-1 13 Mr. FAJT offered the following amendment No. A4217: Lee Barley Evans Serafini Amend Sec. 5 (Sec. 8622). page 22, line 10, by inserting Battisto Fee Izh Smith, 8. after "at" Bebko-Jones Frewnan Lescovllz Smith, S. H least Relardi Geist Lloyd Staback 2406 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE DECEMBER 15

On the question, On the question recurring, Will the House agree to the amendment? Will the House agree to the bill on third consideration as amended? The following roll call was recorded: Mr. FAJT offered the following amendments No. A4396: ' Amend Sec. 5 (Sec. 8617), page 14, line 27, by striking out Adolph Fee Maitland Saylot "and tissue" Allen Fichter Maodaina Sch& Amend Sec. 5 (Sec. 8617), page 14, line 29, by striking out &dl Flesgle Mar(rogek %hula "or tissue" Armstronp.- Flick Mamim scrimti Baker Prewao Masland SBnmel On the question, B.dey Gamble Mayemik Saafioi Will the House agree to the amendments? Bani- Gmon MsCall Smith, B. Bebbboes Gilt MsGeehan Smith. S. H. 1 The following roll call was recorded: Belardi George McNally Snyder, D. W. I Belfanti Gerlach Melio Staback Birmelin Gladeck men^ Stairs Bishop Godshall Michlovic Stselmsn 1 Adolph Fargo Lucyk Blaum Gordoer Micee Sfnghner Allen Farmer Lynch byes Gmitla Mihalish Steil ArsaII Fee hitland Bmwn GW Miller Stem AmLstmng Fichter Manderina Bunt Haluska Mund~ SteUer Baker Fleagle Markogek Bwaon H- Murphy Stish Badey Flick Msniw Cqpbianca Harley Nailw Sttinmstter Bani* Freemao Masland Cam H~Y Nickol Sturla BebkaJWes Gamble Mayemik Smith, B. Carme Haesse~ N yfc Sum Belardi Gannon MECall Smith, S. H. Cawley Hermao O'Briw Tang& Belfanti G6sl MoGeehan Snvder. D. W. cesnnr Hershey Oliver Taylor, E. Z. Birmelin George MeNally staback Chsmvlck Hess Penel Taylor, 1. Bishap Gerlsch Melio Staini Civm Hukhioson PesFi Thomas Blaum GladeEk men^ steelma0 CIS* lUdn Petmne Tigue Bo~es Godshell Michlwic Steighna Clymer Jadloula: Penit Tomlinsoa Bmwo Gordoa Micozie Steil Cob. M. la- Pbllii Tnllo But GNitzs Mihalish Stern Col.fells Jamlin Piccola Trish Butkovitz G~FW Miller Steller Col~ Jws PisWln True Bw.00 Haluaka Mundy Stish Canti Kaim Pim Tulli Calla$imne Hma Murphy stnnma(Ler Cornell Karunic PI& Uliana Cappabianca Harley Nailor Sturla w$pa Kellsr Rei(on Vance Cam H~=Y Niokol Sum Cd Kay Raymond Van Home Camoe Henoessey Nyce Tansr.tti coy King Reber vm Cawley Hema O'Brien Taylor, E. 2. cuny Kirkland Reinsrd Vitali Car Hdey Oliver Taylor, I. Dalay Krebs Richardson Wa~hiogton Chndwick Hess Peael nomas DeLuca KuLovlch Riner Civem Hukhioson Pesn Tigue Dempsey LaGW Robats Willisms Clark Itkin Petmne Tomlinson ht Laub Robi-n wow Clymer fadlowla: Pdtit TTello Dcrmody Lauflin Rceb~ck wc5liak Cohen, M. James Phillips Trich Doastvcci Lawless ROh Wrigbf D. R Colafella lamlin Piceols True Druce Led- ~CYWright, M. N. Colakm Josephs Piraells Tulli Durham Lee Rubley Yandrisevits Conti Kaiser Pim Uliana Egolf I,& Rudy YW~C Cornell Kamic PI& Vaoce Evans ~e4~ovltz Ryan zug Comgao Keller Preston Van Home Fairchild kdsasky Santoni Cavell Kaey Raymond veon Fsjt uoyd Sather Dew- coy King Rexr Vitali Fargo hs~k Sawn s*= Cuny Kirkland Reinard Washington Farmer Lpch Dsley Knbs Richadsan wwgh DeLuca Kukwich Ritter Williams W, Dew=Y LaGranS Roberts wogan Deot Laub Robinson W-ak NOT VOTING4 MY Laughlin Roebuck Wright. D. R Donatucd Lawla Rohrer Wright, M. N. Hughes Dmce Ledera Rooney Ysndnssvits EXCUSED-7 Durham Lee Rubley Yewcic Egolf I,eh Rudy z"g Acosls Cohen. L. I. Olssl Rieger Evaos kovltz Ryan Bush O'Doaoell Petrarca Fairchild Levdaoskv Sanwni Dew- I Fajt Lloyd Sather Spka

The question was determined in the affirmative, and the NAY S-0 amendment was agreed to. LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE

NOT VOTING-2 hee kdemr Rmv~v Ysndnsevits Durham Lse Rubley Ynvsic Gigliotti Hughes Egolf Leh Rudy zus Evans Lescovitz RYan EXCUSED-7 Fairchild Levdansb Santoni Dew-. Acosta Cohen. L. I. Olasz Rieger Fajt Lloyd %a s&er Bush O'Donnell Perarca NAYS4 NOT VOIWG-2 The question was determined in the affirmative, and the amendments were agreed to. Giglidti Hughes On the question recurring, EXCUSED-7 Will the House agree to the bill on tlurd consideration as costa Cohen, L. I. Olm Rieger amended? Bush O'Donnell Pema Mr. Fkn' offered the following amendment No. A4750:

Arnond Sec. 5 (Soc. 8621), page 19, line 21, by striking out The question was determined in the affirmative, and the "from the General Fund" I amendment was agreed to. On the question, On the question recurring, Will the House agee to the amendment? Will the House agree to the bill on third wnsideration as amended? The following mll call was recorded: Mr. FAST offered the fo!lowing amendment No. A4963: YEAS-194 I Amend Sec. 5 (Sec. 8620), page 19, line 6, by inserting after "facility." Fargo sawn Adolph The hospital or other health care facility shall, within five days, Farmer saylor Allen if practicable, return the driver's license or identification card to h@ll Fee Scheaz the Department of Transportation accompanied by a form Armstmng Fichter S~huler prescribed by the Department of Transportation, if the individual Baker Fleagle Scrjmenti involved in the accident is deceased. Barley Flick Semmel Battisto Freeman Serafin, Bebk~Jooes Gamble Smith. 9. On the question, Belardi Ganoon ~kall Smith, S. H. Will the House agree to the amendment? Eelfanti GRS( McGaehan Snyder, D. W. Birmelin Gmrge McNally Staback The following mil call was recorded: Bishop Gerlach Melio Stairs Blaum Gladsk Merry Steel- YEAS- 194 Boyes Godshall Michlovic Steigher Bmwa Goniner Micozie Steil Adolph Fargo LuTk Ss- Bunt Gluifza Mihalich Stem Allen Fuma Lynch s.9~ Fee Maitland Ssheerz Butkovitz GmPP Miller Staler Argall Buxton Halush Mundy Stish -g Picblcr M.ndaiw Sshuler Caltagimne Hanna MW~Y Strillmatter Baker Fleagle MaM Scrimti Cappabim~a Hdey Nsilor Studs ad7 Flick Ww SeMnel Cam Hasay Nick01 Suna hnisto Freeman Masland SIwfim Carone Hennessey Nyce Tanmi Bebko-Jones Gamble Mayaoik Smith, B. Cawley Herman O'Brien Taylor, E. 2. Belsrdi Ganoon MECall Smith, S. H. C-r Hemhey Oliver Taylor, J. Belfanti Geist Mfficehan Snyder, D. W Chadwick Hess Ped Thomas Birmelin Gmrge McNally Staback Civers Hutchinsan Pee Tigue Bishop Gerlach Melio staim Clark Itkin Petmoe Tomlinsoo Blsum Gladak Merry Steolmsll Clymer Jadlowiec Penit Trello BOY- Godshall Mishlovic Stei@mw Cohen. M. James Phillips Tnch Bmwo Goniner Mide SIcil Colafella Jamlin Piccda True Bunt Gndtzs Miblich Stern Colaim Josephs Pistella Tulli Butkovltz GW Miller Wer Conti Kaiser Pins Uliana Brutan Halush M~dy Stisb Cornell Kasunis Platts Vance Calhgimne Hma Murphy StrinmUer Comigan Keller Preston Van Home Cappabiaoca Harley Nailor SMe Cowell Kenney Ra)mwd Vmn Cam Hssay Nickol Sum Camne Hennesse~ NF T@ Coy King Reber Vitali CuW Kirkland Keinard Washington Cawley Hemn O'Brien Taylor, E. 7.. Dsley Krebs Kichardson Waugh C-I Hershey Oliver Taylor. I. DeLuca Kukovlch Ritter Williams Chadwick Hess P-l Tim Civera Hutchinson Pesci Tiwe Dewy ~a~rolla R~S Wogm Dent Laub Kcbinson Wmiak Clark Ilkin Pdrone Tomlimn Dedy Laughlin Roobuck Wright, D. R Clymer Jadlowis Peltit Trello Donatucci Lawless Rohrer Wright, M. N. Cohen, M. lames Phillip Trich 2408 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE DECEMBER 15

Jsmlin Piccola True . Tissue and Eye loaph* Pi@lla Tulli Amend Sec. 5 (Sec. 8601). page 5, line 16, by inserting after Kaiser tilts Uliaoa I "Oman"- Cornell Kasunic Platts Vance , Tissue and Eye b comw Keller Prrslon Van Home Amend Sec. 5 (Subcbapter Analysis), page 6, line 25, by Cowell Kenoey Raymond Veon inserting afler "Organ" coy King Reber Vitpli , Tissue and Eye cuny Kirkland Reinard Washington Amend Sec. 5 (Subchapter Analysis), page 6, line 26, by Ddqr Krrbs Richardson Waugh inserting after "Organ" DeLuca Kukonch Ritter Williams . Tissue and Eye Dnnpsey LaGmttp Raberts Wogao Amend Sec. 5 (Sec. 8617), page 15, line 16, by inserting Dent Laub Rcbinson Wozniak after "Organ" Dm Laughtin Roebuck W"ght, D. R , Tissue and Eye Doostucci Lawless Rohrer Wrinht, M. N Amend Sec. 5 (Sec. 8618), page 17, line 12, by inserting Dm* Lederer Rmoey 1 after "Organ" Durham Lee Rubley , Tissue and Eye Egolf Leh Rudy Amend Sec. 5 (Sec. 8618), page 17, line 28, by striking out Evans hrib! Ryao "Donor" and --insertin* -.~.~. - Fairchild Ssntooi , Tissue and Eye Donation Fajt Lloyd Satber Amend Sec. 5 (Sec. 8621), page 19. line 7, by inserting after "Organ"- , Tissue and Eye Amend Sec. 5 (Sec. 8621), page 19, line 17, by inserting NOT VOTLNG-2 after "Organ" , Tissue and Eye Gigliotti Hugh- Amend Sec. 5 (Sec. 8621), page 19, line 22, by inserting after "Orean"- , Tissue and Eye Amend Sec. 5 (Sec. 8622), page 19, line 23, by inserting Ac& Cohen, L. I. Olasz Rieger after "Organ" Bush O'Domell Pdrana . Tissue and Eye Amend Sec. 5 (Sec. 8622), page 19, line 26, by inserting after "Organ" The question was determined in the affirmative, and the , Tissue and Eye amendment was agreed to. Amend Sec. 5 (Sec. 8622). page 20, line I, by inserting after "Organ" On the question recurring, , Tissue and Eye Will the House agree to the bill on third consideration Amend Sec. 5 (Sec. 8622), page 20, line 14, by inserting as after "ORGAN amended? , Tissue and Eye Amend Soc. 5 (Sec 8622), page 20, lure 21, by inserting Mr. CHADWICK. Madam Speaker? after "ORGAN The SPEAKER pro tempore. For what purpose does the , Tlssue and Eye gentleman, Mr. Chadwick, rise? Amend Sec. 5 (Sec. 8622), page 21, line 3, by inserting after L."r~an" Mr. CHADWICK. Madam Speaker, I hate to be a stick-in- -- , tissue and eye the-mud, but mle 27 does require that the sponsor of the Amend Sec. 5 (Sec. 8622). page 21, line 7, by striking out "% amendment explain the amendment prior to consideration, just "CERTIFIED and inserting a brief sentence to what it involves. as Amend Sec. 5 (Sic. 8622). page~21,line 8, by inserting after The SPEAKER pro tempore. On unanimous consent, the "ORGANIZATIONS." Chair recognizes Mr. Fajt. tissue banks and eye banks Mr. FAIT. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Amend Sec. 5 (Sec. 8622), page 21, line 10, by inserting after "ORGAN" I think I found a microphone that works now. , tissue and eye This amendment simply requires a hospital or other health Amend Sec. 5 (Sec. 8622), page 21, line 11. by inserting care facility that has somebody turn up in their emergency after "ORGAN . tissue and eye W? mom being deceased to return the driver's license to PennDOT Amend Sec. 5 (Sec. 8622), page 21, line 20, by inserting as soon as possible, and that is the nature of tlus amendment. after "organ" The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair thanks the gentle- . tissue and eye man. Amend Sec. 5 (Sec. 8622), page 21, line 22, by inserting after "Organ" retuning, , Tissue and Eye On the question Amend Sec. 5 (Sec. 8622). page 21, line 24, by striking out Will the House agree to the bill on third consideration as '.TWO representativesw and inserting amended? One representative Mrs. VANCE offered the following amendments No. Amend Sec. 5 (Sec. 8622). page 21, by inserting between A4686: lines 25 and 26 .C (2) One representative of a tissue bank. Amend Sec. 5 (Sec. 8601). page 5, line 15, by inserting after (3) One representative of an eye bank. "Organ" LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE

Amend Sec. 5 (Sec. 8622). page 21, line 26, by striking out I This amendment is not needed because cumntly the OFUS "(2)" and inserting have Federal Government oversibt. The OPO's have histori- (4) Amend Soc. 5 (Sec. 8622), page 21, llne 26, by inserting cally had the role of educating the public on anatomical gifts, after "organ" including organ, tissue, and eye donation. We have been in , tissue or eye touch with tissue banks and eye banks. None of them have mend Sec. 5 (~ec.86221, page 21, line 27, by inserting after "organ" to us that they need a share of this money. There , tissue or eye is very little money involved here. Tissue and eye banks are

.....Amend -Sec ~ ~ 5 (Set. 8622). Dane 21. line 28. by striking out comfoltable with this amgement set forth in the bill without \ ~ ,.A- . - "(3)" and mserting the Vance amendment, because OPO'sare trained and have the (5) Amend Set. (Set. 8622), page 22, by inserting betweon staff available to cany out the educational Provisions of this lines 27 and 28 bill. (e) Authorization to receive funds.-?'he Department of This amendment is unnecessary. It creates far more Health shall promulgate rules and regulations granting licenses to problems than it solves. I strongly urge all members to defeat organ procurement organizations, tissue banks and eye banks authorized to receive funds from the Organ, Tissue and Eye this amendment. Donation Awareness Trust Fund No organ procurement organiza- The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair thanks the gentle- tion, tissue bank or eye bank shall receive funds from the Organ, man and recognizes M~,van=. Tissue and Eye Donation Awareness Trust Fund unless they have been licensed by the Department of Health. Mrs. VANCE. I would like to say that we are not here to do what is politically expedient, as Mr. Cohen suggests; we are On the question, here to serve the greatest number of people, and I think by Will the House agree to the amendments? including "Tissue and Eye" we are doing just that. I would also like to point out that OPO's are federally The SPEAKER pro tempore. On the questio~the Chair regulated, not federally licensed. N~~~ are licensed in recognizes Representative Vance. the State, and OPO's are not licensed nationally. They are Mrs. VANCE. Thank you, Madam Speaker. regulated, and it is a very loose regulation indeed. My amendment does several things. The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair thanks the It adds "Tissue and Eye" aAer the word "Organ" in the gentleladyand recognizes Mr. F~,~. Organ Donor Awareness Tmst Fund. As it presently stands, the Mr. FAJT. Thank you, Madam Speaker. money would go to the organ procurement people. It also adds I would also like to rise in opposition to this amendment. members of the eye and tissue people to the advisory council. Under the Vance amendment, 15 different organizations I am not here to espouse the cause of either the organ the commonwealth are going to have access to trust procurement banks or the tissue banks but, rather, all the f~ndmoneys. ~l~~,the van=amendment would allow tissue people that need both organs and tissues. Less than 2 percent and eye banks opedngand not located in pennsylvania to of the cadavers are organ donors or potentid organ donors, have access to the tmst fund moneys donated by our mnstitu- while 65 percent of the cadavers are eligible for tissue, to be ents, outside stateowzations, my unde-,jing is, donors for tissue, and I do not believe that we should be there is nothing in that that says you have to be a shutting these people out. Pennsylvania association to have access to these trust hnd The last thing it does is, under this bill, PennDOT would moneys, allow you to check off, when you apply for a driver's license The maker of the amendment is shaking her head no. I or when you renew your dnver's license, to give money. As it would like to hear the response, is now, you can only donate organs. I would like to see all of The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair thanks the gentle- them licensed. I know they are going to tell me that there is a man, licensing bill coming up down the road. I would suggest that Does Mr. Serafini seek recognition? we are putting the cart before the horse. I think they should be Mr. SERAFINI. Yes, Madam Speaker. licensed before they should receive the money. 1 understand Madam Speaker, the amendment really is not necessary as what you are going to say, but I believe that it is way out of far as the tissue bank in my legislative district is order. Thank you. a matter of fact, it would probably be a lot better if that The SPEAKER Pro tempore. The Chair thanks the lady and amendment were not in, here is no reason for them to share recognizes Mr. Cohen. in that fund, at least the way the legislation has been drafted Mr. COHEN. 'Thank you, Madam Speaker. and amended. Thank you. Madam Speakcr, we have come to the end of the agreed-to The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair begs the pardon of amendments. Representative Fajt and suggests that the gentleman may now 1 oppose this amendment because it is unnecessary. It proceed with his interngation, makes this bill much more complicated, both administratively Mr. FAJT. Thank you, Madam Speaker. I apologize. and politically. 'he goal is not to have a piece of paper that is Madam Speaker, it is my understanding that the way the called a bill; the goal is to have a law that is enacted and that is drafted right now, an organization outside of helps people live longer. Pennsylvania could have access to the tissue and eye bank 2410 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE DECEMBER 15

information and organs from Pennsylvania residents-is that NOT VOTING-I correct?-the moneys, I should say, could have access to the moneys. Mrs. VANCE. No, Madam Speaker; I do not believe that EXCUSEW7 that is a correct assumption. ACO~ Cohen. L. I. Olaa Rieger Mr. FAJT. Thank you, Madam Speaker. ~ush O'DonneII petram The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair thanks the gentle- man. The question was determined in the negative, and the On the question recurring, amendments were not agreed to. Will the House agree to the amendments? On the question recurring, The following mll call was recorded: Will the House agree to the bill on third consideration as amended? b YEAS-93 Mrs. VANCE offered the following amendments No. Allen Fishter Maitland Sador A4687: Argall Flea& Marsico %he& -ng Flick Masland %hule~ Amend Sec. 5 (Sec. 8601). page 5, line 15, by inserting after Baker Ganooo Merry Semi "Organ" Barley Geist Mic-e Srr6th, B. , Tissue and Eye Bay- Gdach Miller Smith, S. H. Amend Sec. 5 (Sec. 8601). page 5, line 16, by inserting after Bm Gladeck Nailor Snyder, D. W. "Organ" Bunt Godshall Nickol Stairs , Tissue and Eye Buxtoo Gmw Steelman Amend Sec. 5 (Subchapter Analysis). page 6, line 25, by C-r Harley Penel Steil inserting after "Organ" Chadwick "emu* Pmit Stern , Tissue and Eye Civm Hemn Phillips Strittmatle, Amend Sec. 5 (Subchapter Analysis), page 6, line 26, by Clark Hershey Piwola Taylor, E. Z. inserting- after "Organ"- Clymr Hess Piltr Taylor, I. , Tissue and Eye Conti Hubbinson Platts Tomlinsoo Amend Sec. 5 (Sec. 8617), page 15. line 16, by inserting Cornell Jadlowiec Raymond after "Organ" 0ePpl-Y Kenney Reba . Tissue and Eye Dent King Reiosrd Ulians Amend Sec. 5 (Sec. 8618), page 17, line 12, by inserting Dmee Krebs Rohrer Vance after "Organ" Durham Laub Rubley , Tissue and Eye Egolf Lawless Amend Sec. 5 (Sec. 8618), page 17, line 28, by striking out RP wow "Donor" and inserting Fairchild Lee SatheI Wright. M. N. , Tissue and Eye Donation Fargo Lynch Ssurman zug Farmer Amend Sec. 5 (Sec. 8621), page 19, line 7, by inserting after "Organ" NAYS-102 Tissue and Eve Amend Sec. 5'(Sec. 862jj,page 19, line 17, by inserting Adolph Fajt Lloyd Santani after "Organ"- Ballislo Fee Lucyk Scnmwti . Tissue and Eve Bebko-Jones Freeman Mandenno Semtini Amend Sec. 5 (Sec. 8621), page 19, line 22, by inserting Belad Gamble Markosek Staback after "Organ" Belfsati George Mayernik sleighner , Tissue and Eye Bimlin Gordner McCall swer Amend Sec. 5 (Sec. 8622), page 19, line 23, by inserting Bishap G~itza McGehao Stish after "Organ" Blaum HalusLa McNally Sturla . Tissue and Eye Butkwilz Hanna Melio Sm Amend Sec. 5 (Sec. 8622), page 19, line 26, by inserting Caltapimae Hasay Michlovic Tangreni after "Organ" Cnppabiansa Hughe. Mihalich Thomas . Tissue and Eye cm Itkio Mundy Tigue Amend Sec. 5 (Sec. 8622), page 20, line I, by inserting after Cnrone IS- MUP~Y Trella "Organ"- 'I, Cawley Jamlin O'Brieo Trisb . Tissue and Eye Cohen, M. Josephs Oliver Van Home Amend Sec. 5 (Sec. 8622). page 20, line 14, by inserting Colafdla Kaiser Pesn veon after "ORGAN" Colaiao Kasunic Petmne Vitpli , Tissue and Eye corrigm Keller Piraella Washinson Amend Sac. 5 (Sec. 8622), page 20, line 21, by inserting Cavell Kirkland Rest00 Williams a-,fter "ORGAN coy Kukovicb Richardson Woaniak . Tissue and Eye LaGm Rib Wright, D. R Amend Sec. 5 (Sec. 8622). page 21, line 3, by inserting after cw "orxan" Daley Laughlio Robens Yandriswits - DeLuca Ledm R&mn Ywcic . tissue and eye Dmnody Leb Roebuck Amend Sec. 5 (Sec. 8622). page 21, line 7. by striking out 'O "CERTIFIED and inserting Doom& kovitz Rmney DeWeese. ~omm&wealth-licensed Evans Lwdaasky Rudy Speaker Amend Sec. 5 (Sec. 8622). page 21. line 8, by inserting after "ORGANIZATIONS." LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE

tissue banks and eye banks Mr. SERAFIM. Madam Speaker, licensing for tissue banks Amend Sec. 5 (Sec. 8622), page 21, line 10, by inserting is in the process of being dmiled and put into law. At this after "ORGAN , tissue and eye point this legislation could not handle this amendment. This Amend See. 5 (See. 8622), page 21, line 11, by inserting legislation would be much bener without this amendment. after "ORGAN I would appreciate the defeat of this amendment. Thank , tissue and eye Amend See. 5 (Sec. 8622). page 21, line 20. by inserting you. after "organ" The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair thanks the gentle- , tissue and eye man. Amend See. 5 (Sec. 8622). DaRe 21. line 22. by inserting- after "Organ" On the question recurring, , Tlssue and Eye Will the House agree to the amendments? Amend Sec. 5 (See. 8622), page 21.11ne 24. by str~klngout "Two reoresentatives" and inserlini The following roll call was recorded: One representaiive Amend See. 5 (Sec. R622), page 21, by inserting behveen YEAS-95 lines 25 and 26 (2) One representative of a tissue bank. Adolph Farso MaiUaod Scheee. (3) One representative of an eye bank. Allen Fm Musiw Schuler Amend Sec. 5 (See. 8622), page 21, line 26, by striking out Wl Fichter Muld Semmel "(2)" and inserting Armrtroog Reagle Mew Smith. B. \-,lA\ Baker Rick Mide Smitb, S. H. Amend See. 5 (Sec. 8622), page 21, line 26, by inserting Barley Cannon MiUa Snyder, D. W. after "organ" Bimlin OR* Nailor Scairri , tissue or eye %yes Gerlash Nickol Stglmsn Amend Sec. 5 (See. 8622). page 21, line 27, by inserting Brown GlsdeFk N~ce Steil after "organ" Bvot Godshall 0'B"eo Stern , tissue or eye Budon GNPP~ Pmel Stetla Amend Sec. 5 (See. 8622). page 21, line 28, by str~kingout Cmr Harley Petit Stlitrmstter "(3)" and inserting Cwck HwW Phillip Taylor, E. Z. (5) Civ-23 Herman Piccda Taylor, I. Clark Hershey Pitls Tomlinsw On the question, Clymer Hutchinson Plans True Will the House agree to the amendments? Conti Jadlowiec Raymond Tulli Comell Kemey Rebat Uliana The SPEAKER pro tempore. On the question, the Chair DW King Rein4 Vmce Dent Krebs Roh Wauph recognizes Mrs. Vance. DNce hub Rubley wogao Mrs. VANCE. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Durham Lawless Ryan Wri& M. N. This amendment is similar to the first one, although there Egolf Lee s.ther zus are no licensing provisions in this second amendment. Fairshild Lynch Saylor I am amazed to hear the tissue hanks say, we do not want NAYS-99 money to educate people about the need for tissues. I do not Banislo Fteeman h+ SaunoPn understand the reasoning at all. I would think that the more Bebko-Jones Gamble Maaderino krimeoti people that hew about tissues and education and the great Belardi George Ma&& Mni need there is for them, that they would want to support this Belfaoti Gordner Mayemil Staback amendment. Thank you. Bishop Gmib Mddl SieiphnR Blaum Haluska Mffiahsn Stiab The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair thanks the lady and B"tk0vitz Hams McNally Suls recognizes Mr. Cohen. Caltagimoe H-Y Melio Sm Mr. COHEN. Madam Speaker, I also urge the defeat of this Cappabiancs Hwb- Michlwic TPnsrem amendment. Cam Ilkin Mihalich Thomss Camoe Jam hdy Tigue Under the whole scheme of the bill, it is the function of the Cawley Jarolio Murphy Tmllo OPO's and not the tissue banks to engage in public awareness Cohen, M. losephs Oliver Trish activities. The amount of money here is not going to be very Coldella Kaiser Pessi Vao Home Ka-c Pettone vmn substantial. Dividing it up among a lot of people means that Calauza camgen Kdler PieIeIIa ViWi the money cannot be spent effectively; there are economies in Cowell Kirkland Pmi011 Wasbiogtao scale in any kind of advertising campaign. Producing high- COY Kukovlch Richardson Willim quality material requires some degree of centralization. The curry LaGrona Ritter wwaislr Daley LBughlin Raber(s Wri& D. R tissue banks are not demanding this money. OPO's have DeLuca Ledem Robinson Yaodriswits Federal Government oversight. Ded Leh Roebuck Yewsir: 1 strongly urge the defeat of this amendment. Donatucsi Lescwitz R-ey The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair thanks the gentle- Evans Levdaasky Rudy Fajt Uoyd Smtoni man and recog~zesMr. Serafini. Fee 2412 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE DECEMBER 15

NOT VOTING-2 Conti Kaiser Pitts Uliaoa Cornell Kasunic Phus Vmce GiglicUi Heas Conigsn Keller Preston Vao Home EXCUSES7 COW~II Kaey ~aym~nd ve~n COY King Reber Vitpli w A=& Coben, L. I. Olasl. Rieger CWf Kirkland Reinard Washiogbn Bush O'Domell Pelrarca Dal~ KRbs Richardson Waugb DeLusa Kukovich Rim William &WW LaGmtta Roberts WOW The question was determined in the negative, and the Robinson Womialr izy LaughlioLaub Rmbuck Wright, D. R amendments were nd agreed to. Donatucci Lawless Rohrer Wnabt. M. N. Dmce Lderer hney ~*n;lnsents On the question recurring, ' Durham Lae Rubley Y&c Will the House agree to the bill on third consideration as Egolf Leb Rudy zug amended? Evans Lescovia R~an .b Fairchild Levdansky Smtooi DeWeese, The SPEAKER pro tempore. The lady, Mrs. Vance, offers Fajt Lloyd Sather spesker the following amendment, which the clerk will read. Fargo Mrs. VANCE. Thank you, Madam Speaker. NAYS-0 I will withdraw this amendment. Thank you. The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair thanks the lady. NOT VOTING-I Giglidti On the question recurring, Will the House agree to the bill on third consideration as EXCUSED-7 amended? Acosia Cohen. L. I. Olasz Riegn Bill as amended was agreed to. Bush O'Domell PBLrana The SPEAKER pro tempore. This bill has been considered The majority required by the Constitution having voted in on three different days and agreed to and is now on final the atlirmative, the question was determined in the affirmative passage. and the bill passed finally. The question is, shall the bill pass finally? Ordered, That the clerk present the same to the Senate for Agreeable to the pmvisions of the Constitutio~the yeas concurrence. and nays will now be taken. VOTE CORRECTION YEAS-195------. - Mph Farmer hcyk ~.urmaa Mr. THOMAS. Madam Speaker? Allen Fee Lnch Savloc . . ArgPll Fichler hisitlmd Sc6& gentleman, Mr. nohas, rise? Fleagle Msaderioa S~huler Mr. THOMAS. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Baker Flick Mahsek Scrimenti Madam Speaker, on the Cohen amendment A4972, my Badcy Frean~n Mamiso Semmet ,- Beuir*o Gdle Maslmd Serpfini button malfunctioned. 1 would like to be recorded in the Bobblones Gamon Ms@k Sd,B. affirmative, please. Bdd Gei* McCall Smith, S. H. The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman's remarks will &Ifanti Grnge Mffieehm Snyder, D. W. Bimvlin Gerlffib McNally Slaback be spread upon the record. Bishop Gl&k Melio staim Mr. THOMAS. Thank you. Blaum Godsball Mew Steelma0 eoyes ciordtler Mishlovic Steighner Brown G~itla Miccmje %I SUPPLEMENTAL CALENDAR B Bunt Gruppo Mihalicb Stem Butkwitz Halush Milk Staler RESOLUTION ON CONCURRENCE BuxtOn Hams Mundy Stish IN SENATE AMENDMENTS Caltagimw Harley MW~Y Stnumatter Csppabianca H-Y Nailor Studs The House proceeded to consideration of concurrence in Cam Hennessey Nickol Suna Senate amendments to HR 147, PN 2888, entitled: Cme Hewn N~ce Taoptli O'Brieo Cawley Hershey Taylor, E. Z. A Concurrent Resolution requesting the Commonwealth's Ceasar Hess Oliver Taylor, I. representative on the Northeast Ozone Transport Commission to Chadwick Hughes Perrel Thomas not endorse a petition in favor of certain program mandates and Civem Hutshineoo PC* Tigue providing for notice to the Commonwealth of any actions by Clark llkin Petmne Tomliosoo NOTC which may affect the Commonwealth. ciymor Jadlmviw Peltit Trello * Coheo, M. lames Pbillip Trich On the question, Colsfslla lamlin Piscola Tme Will the House concur in Senate amendments? Colaiza Ioaepbs Piatells Tulli LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE The following roll call was recorded: I CALENDAR CONTINUED BILL ON THIRD CONSIDERATION Adolph Fargo Lloyd Sather The House proceeded to third wnsideration of HB 2246, Allen Falmer hcyk Saumn Argall Fee Lynch Saylor PN 2805, entitled: Armstmng Fichter Maitland Sch& Baker Fleagle Mandnino khula Ao Act amending Title 18 (Crimes and Offenses) of the Badey Flick Markosek Scrimenti Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes, restricting the possession of Bsnido Free- Marslco Semmel a firearm by a person under the age of 18 years. Bebko-Jones Gamble Masland Serafini Belardi Gannon Mayemik Smith, B. On the question, Belfanti Geid McCall Smith, S. H. Will the House agree to the bill on third wnsideration? Birmelio Geor~e McGehan Snyder, D. W Bill was agreed to.

Bishm~~~ Gerlach McNallv Staback Blaum Gladeck Melio Stairs The SPEAKER pm tempore. This bill has been wnsidered Boy- Godshall MeV Steelmao on three different days and agreed to and is now on final Brown Gordner Michlovic Steighner Bunt Gmim Micome Steil passage. ButkovlLz Gruppo Mihalish Stem The question is, shall the bill pass finally? Buxton Halusb Miller Stetler Agreeable to the provisions of the Constitution, the yeas Caltagrone Hanoa Mundy Stish and nays will now be taken. Cappabisnca Harley Murphy Stnnmatter Cam Hssay Nailor Studa YEAS-154 Carone Hennessey Nickol Slrn Cawley Herman Nrce Tangreai Adolph FPnner Mamica spylor Cessar Hershey O'Brien Taylor, E. 2. Allen Fee Mssland Schg(z Chsdwick Hpss Ohver Taylor, I. Fichter Mayernik Schuler Civera Hughes Peml Thomas Armstmng Fleagle MECall Scrimenti Clark Hutchinson Pesci Tigue Baker Flick McGeehan Serafini Clper ltkin Petrone Tomlinson Barley Freeman McNdly Smith, B. Cohen, M. Jadlowiex Pettit Trello BsUisto Gamble Melio Staback Colafella Jam- Phillip Trich Bebka-Jones Gtid Michlovlc Stglmao Colairm Jamlin Piccda True Belardi George Micwzie Stdghner Cooti Josephs Pisrdla Tulli Belfanti Glsdeek Mihalich SInl Cornell Kaiser Pins Uliaoa Bishop Godrhall Miller SLm Cmgan Kasunic Platts Vance Blsurn Haluska Mmdy Stetla Cowell Keller Preston Van Home Bunt Hadey Murphy Stirh COY Kenney Raymond veoo Butkovitz Hasry Nailor Strinmttrr cuw King Reber Washiogtoo Buxton Heonessey Niskol Sturla Daley Kirldand Renard Waugh Csltagimne Herman O'Brien Taylor, E. Z. DeLuca Krebs Richardson Williams Cappebiance Hersbey Oliver Taylor, 1. Dempsei Kukovich Ritter Wogan Cam Hess Parel Tho- Dent LaGmtla RWs Womiak Cessv Hughes Pecmoe Tigue Dm hub Robioson Wright. D. R Chadwick ltkin Penit Todinson Dwatucci Laughlin Roebuck Wright, M. N Civera James Piccola Trella Druce Lawless Rohm Yandrisevib Clymer Jqhs Pistella Trich Durham Lederer Rmoey Ynvcic Cohcn, M. Kaiser Pitts Trite EBOI~ lap RU~I& Zua Colafella Kellm P1.tls Tulli Evans Leh Rudy Colain0 Kenney MII Uliau Fairchild Lescwitz Ryan Dew-, Cooti Kirkland bymond Vance Fajt Lwdansky Santoni Speaker Cornell Krebs Rh Van Home Comigan Kulrovich Rtinard Veon Cowell LsGmtta Richardson Vitsli COY Laub fitter Washington NOT VOTING-2 CUT Laugblin Robinson Williams GigliMti Vitali DeLuca Lawless Roebuck WOW Devwy ~ede~ ~mney wright, D. R. Dent Lee Rubley Wright, M. N. Dedy LescoVrtz Rudy Yandrjhts Acoa Cohen. L. I. Olasz Rieger Dooahl~ci hdsnsky Rynn zug Bush O'Dosoell Pecrarca Druce hcyk SIlltoai Evaos Mandecino Sather Dew-, Fajt Markmk Ss-o Swker The question was determined in the affirmative, and the amendments were concurred in. NAYS-39 Ordered, That the clerk inform the Senate accordingly. Bimlio Fargo King Semmel Bay- Cannon Leh Smith, S. H. Brown Gerlash Lloyd Snyder, D. W. Camne Gordoer Lynch Stdm 2414 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE DECEMBER 15

Cawley Gndtu Maitlaad Sum Cowell Kellw Reinard Vitali Clark G~FP Merr~ Tmgdti COY Kenney Richardson Washington Ddey H- Nyse w~~gh Cuny ~i~g R~US wa~ph Ilurhun Hutchinson Pesci Wceniak Daley Kirkland RWs Williams Egolf Iadlouiec Rabn(s YwEic DeLuca Kulrouleh Wnm WOW k Faiichild Kammic Rohrer DernpsPy LaGratta Roebuck Wceniak Dent Laub Rohrer ~n&D. R NOT VOTING-3 Dedy Laughlin Rmney Wright, M. N. Donshrcci Lawless Rubley Yandrisevtts Gi%i&i Jamlin Phillip D~ce Ledem Rudy YewEic EXCUSED-7 Durham Leh Ryan zug Evans kovilz SPotMli Ac&a Cohen, L. I. Olale Rieger Fairchild Levdaasky Sather Dew-, Bush O'Domdl Pdrarca Fajt Lloyd Ssurman s@w Farmer Lucyk

The majority required by the Constitution having voted in NAYS-15 the affirmative, the question was determined in the affirmative Armstrong Fargo Maitland Steil and the bill passed finally. BOY= Jddlowres Masland Striumattw Bmwn Krebs Merry vaoce Ordered, That the clerk present the same to the Senate for Egolf Lee Nailor conmnce. NOT VOTING-I BILL ON FINAL PASSAGE POSTPONED Giglidti The House proceeded to consideration on final passage EXCUSED-7 postponed of tIB 1934, PN 2879, entitled: Acoa Cahen, L. I. Olssz Riega Bush O'Domell Perarca An Act amending the act of March 3, 1978 (P.L.6, NO.^), known as the Steel Products Procurement Act, further providing for use of steel products by public agencies. The majority required by the Constitution having voted in On the question recurring, the affirmative, the question was determined in the affirmative Shall the bill pass finally? and the bill passed finally. The SPEAKER pm tempore. Agreeable to the provisions Ordered, That the clerk present the same to the Senate for of the Constitution, the yeas and nays will now be taken. concurrence. YEAS-180 The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair recognizes the Adolph Pee Lynch Saylor majority leader. Allen Pic& Uaoderino SEbedz Mr. ITKIN. Madam Speaker, I know that Representative . Fie* Markce& Schdn Daley approached the mum to file a reconsideralion motion 8.Lcr Flick Mudm Scrimti on one bill, so if we can just stand at ease momentarily so that Bdey ~leetn90 M~~Lsemml B#ir*o Gamble McUl Swfini he can have his reconsideration motion made and acted upon, WJones Gaoow Mffieehaa Smith. B. then that is the last course of action and we will revote the bill. &Id Gei* McNally ~mitb.S. H. and then we can all adjourn for the holidays. &Ifanti George Melio Snyder, D. W. Bilmelin Gerlseb Michlmis Staback Bishop Gl&k Micapie Stairs HB 2246 RECONSIDERED BIaum Godaball Mihalicb Steelman Buat Gndner Miller Steigbner The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair recognizes Mr. Bldkovilz Gndtza Mundy Stan Daley, who moves that the vote by which HB 2246, PN 2805, Buxtoo Gruppo Murphy Wler was passed on the 15th day of December be reconsidered. Cnltagime Halush Nickol Stisb Cappabiancs Hanna NP SNr(a On the question, - Csm Harley O'Brien S""a Camne Hasay Oliver Tan@ Will the House agree to the motion? Cawley Henneasey Penel Taylor, E. 2. Cesssr Hermsn P& Taylor, J. The following roll call was recorded: Chdwisk Hersbey P&one Toamas Civera Hess Penit Tigue YEAS-193 Clark Hughes Phillip Tomlinson Adolph Fargo Lloyd Saylor Clymrr Hutchinson Piccola Trello Allen Farmer Lucyk Schedz Cohen, M. Itkin Pis+ells Trich Argall Fee Lynch Schuler Colafella James Pins True hwimng Ficbter Maitland Scrimenti Col- Jamlin Plans Tulli Baker Fleagle Maoderino Se-l Conti Joaephs Restw Uhana Barley Flick Markosek Serafini Cornell Kaiser Raymond Van Home Banisto Freeman Marsico Smith, B. Conigan Kastlnic Reber Veoo Bebko-Jones Gamble Maslsod Smith, S. H. LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE

Belardi Mayemik Snyder, D. W. they cannot possess a firearm to go out hunting with his family Belfaoti McCall Staback or her family, and could you explain the legislation to us? Bimelin McGeehao Stairs Bishop McNally Steelmn Mr. OLIVER. Tlxd you. Madam Speaker? Blaurn Melia Steighner The SPEAKER pro tempore. The House will be at ease for Boyes Merry steil a moment, please. Bmwn Michlwic Stern Bunt Micwzie Sletler Butkovitz Mihalich Stish VOTE CORRECTIONS Buxron H,I& Miller Slri[lmatler Calta@rone Hanna Mundy Shlrla The SPEAKER pro tempore. For what purpose does the Capbianca Hadey Murphy s""a gentleman, Mr. Hess, rise? Cam Hasay Nailar Tangcell! Mr. HESS. To correct the record. Camne Hennessoy Nickol Tagor, E. Z. The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman may proceed. Cawley Herman N~ce Taylor, J. Cessar Hershey O'Brien Thomas Mr. HESS. On HB 1956, the Vance amendment A4687, 1 Chadulck Hess Oliver Tigw pushed my button and it did not record. I would like to be Civera Hughes Perzel Tdinsoo recorded in the affirmative. Thank you. Clark Hutchinson Pesn Trello The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman's remarh will Clymer Itkin Pdmne T"ch Cahen. M. Jadlowles P&l True be spread upon the record. Colafella James Phillips Tulli The Chair recognizes Mr. Reinard. Colaim Jamlio Piccola Uliaaa Mr. REINARD. Madam Speaker, I was recorded in the Conti Josephs Pistella Vmce 2246, be Cornell Kaiser Pills Van How affirmative on HB final passage. I would like to Comgan Kasunic Plalls Veon recorded in the negative. Thank you. Cmvell Keller Preston Vilah The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman's remarks will COY Kenney Raymood Washington be spread across the record. Curry King Reber waugh Daley Kirkland Reinard Williams For what purpose does the gentlema Mr. Jarolin, rise? Krebs Killer DeLuca won Mr. JAROLIN. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Dem~sey Kukovlch Roberts WcmUak Dent IaGrata Robinson wnght, D. R I would like to intermgate the maker of the bill. Dedy [sub Rohrer Wright. M. N, The SPEAKER pro tempore. We are at ease, Mr. larolin, Donatucd Lsughlio RWey YandnseMls while Mr. Oliver and Mr. Daley are conferring. Dmce Lawless Rubley Yewcic Durham Lederer Rudy zug Will you yield momentarily? Egolf Lee Ryan Mr. JAROLIN. Yes, I will, Madam Speaker. Evaos Leh Santoni DeWeese, Fairchild Lescovitz Sather Speaker Fajt Lwdanslty Saurman BILLS REMOVED FROM TABLE NAYS-0 The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair re@s the majority leader. NOT VOTING-3 Mr. ITKIN. Madam Speaker, I move that the following Gidiolli Richardson Roebuck bills be taken from the table and placed on the active calendar: EXCUSED-7 HB 165;

Aco* Cohen, L. I. Olasz Kieger HB 175; Bush O'Donndl Petma HB 580; HB 585; HB 1974; The question was determined in the afirmative, and the HB 2192; motion was agreed to. HB 2311; and On the question recumng, SB 307. Shall the bill pass finally? On the question, The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman, Mr. Daley, is Will the House agree to the motion? recognizd. Motion was agreed to. Mr. DALEY. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Will the maker of the bill stand for brief interrogation? BILLS RECOMMITTED The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman indicates that The SPEAKER pm tempore. The Chair recognizes the he will. The gentleman will proceed. majority leader. Mr. DALEY. Would the maker of the legislation please Mr. m. Madam Speaker, I move that the following explain, as brief as possible, the intent of this legislation and bills be recommitted to the Appropriations Committee: answer one question. If a young person is under 18, that means 2416 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE DECEMBER 15

HA--- 165:--- Amll Fichter Maitland HB 175; ~&mog Fleagle Maodetino Baker Flick Markosk HB 580; Badey Freeman Mamico Semmel HB 585; Battido Gamble Maslaod Smfini 'I HB 1974; and Bebko-Jooea Gsonan Msymik Smith. B. HB 2311. Belardr GRd McCall Smith. S. H. Belfaoti Gewrre Mffieehan Snyder, D. W. On the question, Birmelin Gerlaib McNslly Staback I Bishop Gl&k Melio Stain Will the House agree to the motion? 1 Blaum Godshall Merry Steelmo Motion was agreed to. Boy- Gordner Michlovic Sleighner ' Bravn Gruitzs Micolzie Steil 1 Bunt GwFP Mihalich Stem BILLS ON SECOND CONSIDERATION Butkovitz Halusb Miller Steller The following bills, having been called up, were considered ' Buxtoo Hama Stish Csltagimne Harley Murphy Strittmatk I.. for the second time and agreed to, and ordered transcribed for C~ppabanoa Hasay Nailor Sturla third consideration: Cam Hemesszy Nickol Surra Camne H-a Nyce Tanplti HB 2192, PN 2892; and SB 307, PN 1759. Cawley Hde~ O'Brien Taylor, E. Z. Cessar Hess Oliver Taylor, J. Chadwick Hughes Pd Thorns CONSIDERATION OF HB 2246 CONTINUED Civera Hutchinson PeSn Tigue Clark ltkin Pamne Tomlinaon The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair recognizes the Clper Jsdlowiec Pait Trello majority leader. Cohen, M. lam Phillip Trich Mr. ITKN. Madam Speaker, at this time I would like to Colafella Jamlin Piccola Twe Colaim Josephs Piraells Tulli yield the floor to my distinguished colleague from Luzerne Cooti Kaiser Pitts Uliana County, Mr. Jamlin, to make a motion. Cornell Kasunic Platts Vance Corrigan Kdler Prenton Van Home BILL RECOMMITTED coy Kenney Raymond Veon Cuny King Reba Vitali The SPEAKER pro tempore. Mr. Jarolin is recognized. Daley KirWand RRnard Waslington DeLuca Krrba Richardson Wau@ Mr. JAROLIN. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Thank you, Deolp9.v Kukovich Riller Williams majority boss. Dent Lacm RcbatS wogso On this particular piece of legislation, HB 2246, there are Dermody Laub Robinson Wolniak Donahlcci Lauahlin Roebuck Wright. D. R a lot of problems with this because the clarification of this Dmce Lawless Rohm Wright, M. N. firearm is not there. Durham Ledem Rmoey Yandriswits So I am going to make a motion that we rerefer this bill Egolf Lee Rubley Yewcic back to the Game and Fisheries Committee. Evans Leh Rudy zug Fsirchild ~essovlb Ryan The SPEAKER pro tempore. It has been moved by the Fajt Levdansky SantoG gentleman that HB 2246 be recommitted to the Game and Fish Fargo Uoyd Sather Committee. On the question, Will the House agree to the motion? NOT VOTING-2 Cowell Giglimi Mr. llWN Madam Speaker? The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman may pmceed. Mr. ITKIN. Thank you. Ac& Madam Speaker, it is my understanding that the sponsor of Bush the legislation is agreeable to have his bill recommitted to the Game and Fish Committee. So therefore, I would urge all The question was determined in the affirmative, and the members to support the recommittal motion. motion was agreed to. On the question recurring, Will the House agree to the motion? RESIGNATION OF MEMBER The following roll call was recorded: The SPEAKER pro tempore. Ihe Chair submits the following letter of resignation. YEAS-1 94 '.I Adolph F- Lucyk Sawn Allen Fee Lynch Sayla 1993 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL - HOUSE 2417 The following letter was submitted: I BILLS AND RESOLUTIONS PASSED OVER House of Representatives The SPEAKER pm tempore. Without objection, all Commonwealth of Pennsylvania remaining bills and resolutions on today's calendar will be Harrisburg passed over. The Chair hem M objection. December IS. 1993 fIonorable H. William DeWeese, Speaker ADJOURNMENT 139 Main Capitol Building Harrisburg, FA 17120 I Mr. ITKIN. Madam Speaker, before I make the motion, I Dear Mr. Speaker: do not want it to be misinterpreted. 1 will be adjourning the This is to advise you that 1 hereby resign from the office of House until 12 o'clock noon on January 4. That is a constitu- State Representative of the 20th Legislative District at the tional requirement, but you are a fool to be here on lanw4, adjournment of session today, December 15, 1993. because I will not be here with you. Sincerely, So consequently now, Madam Speaker, I move that this Thomas J. Murphy House do now adjourn until Tuesday, January 4, 1994, at 12 TMI o'clock noon, e.s.t., unless sooner recalled by the Speaker. cc: Clancy Myer. Parliamentarian John J. Zubeck. Chief Clerk On the question, Ann Santinoceto, Comptroller Will the House agree to the motion? Motion was agreed to, and at 7:17 p.m., e.s.t., the House STATEMENTS The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair recognizes Mr. Itkin. Mr. ITKIN. Madam Speaker, it is my distinct, personal pleasure to make the final motion of the evening. When I do, we will have concluded ow session for 1993. I want to commend the members of the House on both sides of the aisle, including my distinguished Republican floor leader, Matt Ryan, for the cooperation we had in moving everything forward this session. Therefore, I would like to wish everyone happy holidays and hope that they come back next year rejuvenated and ready to conduct the business of the House. I would like to now yield to Mr. Ryan. Perhaps he would like to have a few words, too, at this time. The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair recognizes Mr. Ryan. Mr. RYAN. Madam Speaker, the record will not reflect that no one is paying a bit of attention to either one of us because everyone is getting ready to leave. 1 wish you, Mr. Majority Leader, the very best of the holidays; 1 wish everyone in this room the same thing, and everyone within the sound of my voice, as well as the people of the Comrnonwealth. 1 especially welcome home to this State Capitol the Governor of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, who, I am advised, is going to take back the reins on the 21st day of this month. I look forward to that, as I am sure all of the people of Pennsylvania look forward to it, and I think it is just wonder- ful, and I think that, too, should be noted on the record. That is the best holiday gifl 1 think this Commonwealth has had. Thank you, Madam Speaker.