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Tuesday Volume 649 13 November 2018 No. 204 HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD) Tuesday 13 November 2018 © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2018 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Open Parliament licence, which is published at www.parliament.uk/site-information/copyright/. 157 13 NOVEMBER 2018 158 Rory Stewart: Very much so; a key part of the new House of Commons consultation is taking some of the previous flexibility away and defining much more closely the requirements Tuesday 13 November 2018 on regularity of contact, type of contact and the expectation on the offender. The House met at half-past Eleven o’clock Michael Tomlinson (Mid Dorset and North Poole) PRAYERS (Con): Does the Minister agree that one of the keys to rehabilitation is to ensure manageable case loads for probation officers, so that more time and energy can be [MR SPEAKER in the Chair] spent on each individual? Rory Stewart: That is correct, which is why we are Oral Answers to Questions currently recruiting more than 1,000 new probation officers and probation support officers. But this is about not only the case load per prisoner but making sure we JUSTICE can focus most on the most risky prisoners and getting the right relationship between staff and risk. The Secretary of State was asked— Probation: Community Rehabilitation Companies Eddie Hughes (Walsall North) (Con): Does the Minister believe that charities such as YMCA and the Prince’s 1. Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Shoreditch) (Lab/ Trust have a vital role to play in community rehabilitation? Co-op): What estimate he has made of the proportion of offenders on probation being supported by community Rory Stewart: Absolutely. YMCA and the Prince’s rehabilitation companies. [907501] Trust have a role to play, and indeed more than 15,000 charities in Britain have working with offenders The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Rory as one of their objectives. The third sector has so much Stewart): The CRCs currently supervise just over to offer, and, in renegotiating and redesigning probation 59% of all offenders and the National Probation Service contracts, we must make it much easier for charities and supervises 41%. the third sector to engage in them and bring their skills and knowledge. Meg Hillier: The CRC contract has been a dog’s breakfast, so what is the Minister going to do to make sure that CRCs work better to support people, particularly Family Court Reform those on shorter sentences? Rory Stewart: First, I pay tribute to the Public Accounts 2. Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con): Committee for its work in looking at exactly this subject. What progress he is making on family court reform. In order to work better, we are consulting on having a [907502] closer relationship between the National Probation Service and the CRCs. Secondly, we are making sure we put The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice much more focus on the basics, by which we mean the (Lucy Frazer): People often come to the courts system risk assessment, the plan for probation and regular when they are at their most vulnerable, and we want to contact. ensure not only that they have a fair system to determine their disputes, but that it is as simple and straightforward Tracey Crouch (Chatham and Aylesford) (Con): I as possible. In the family courts, we are making the recently visited the Kent, Surrey and Sussex CRC to see process not only more simple but less antagonistic. For the great work it is doing to support 9,000 low-risk and example, we are making our application processes more medium-risk offenders across three counties, including straightforward in divorce and child arrangement through an excellent partnership with Buckmore Park applications; we are committed to giving the family scouts for community payback. Will the Minister join court the power to prohibit abusers from cross-examining me in congratulating it on its creative partnership and their victims; and we are consulting on taking the holistic approach to the offender, which is bringing requirement of fault out of divorce. about positive results in rehabilitation? Sir Desmond Swayne: If the courts were to publish Rory Stewart: Yes, I would like to pay tribute to that clear advice as to what access parents might reasonably CRC, which is performing well, and to other CRCs such expect, fewer of them would perhaps be tempted to as Cumbria’s. I also pay tribute to the London CRC for litigate, would they not? the innovative work it is doing on knife crime rehabilitation. Kate Green (Stretford and Urmston) (Lab): There is a Lucy Frazer: As my right hon. Friend implies, every lack of information about, and confidence in, how parent who separates wants to continue to have contact CRCs are using rehabilitation activity requirements. with their child. I was pleased to talk about this issue Will the Minister look at how, in the negotiation of new with him and my hon. Friend the Member for North contracts,there can be more precision about the expectations West Leicestershire (Andrew Bridgen). I have taken up on CRCs as to how they administer RARs and, in their proposal and spoken about it with the president of particular, how they provide evidence that structured the family division, as well as with a number of organisations activity is taking place? that deal with children and legal representatives in the 159 Oral Answers 13 NOVEMBER 2018 Oral Answers 160 family courts. I should say that they all have differing aid. I am pleased to have met the hon. Lady already to perspectives, but we are looking at this matter very discuss the issue that she mentions, and we are looking closely. into it. Stephanie Peacock (Barnsley East) (Lab): It is now Prison Officer Recruitment two years since the Government made a commitment to ban perpetrators from cross-examining victims of domestic 3. Henry Smith (Crawley) (Con): What progress his abuse in family courts, which the Minister has just Department has made on recruiting 2,500 prison officers. mentioned, but when will she actually follow through [907503] on that and finally act on this issue? The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Rory Lucy Frazer: We will follow through on this issue, Stewart): I am delighted to say that we have been very which is a Government priority— successful and are well ahead of schedule. Instead of simply 2,500 extra prison officers, we have 3,653 more Stephanie Peacock: But when? than we had in 2016, and job offers have gone out to a further 2,000 potential prison officers. Lucy Frazer: It will be in a Bill as soon as legislation Henry Smith: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that and the parliamentary timetable allow. answer and welcome those additional prison officers. What protective equipment is being provided to prison Andrew Selous (South West Bedfordshire) (Con): officers to keep them and the prison population safer? Does the Minister agree that the consultation on divorce law reform is an opportunity to look into ways to cause Rory Stewart: The use of body-worn cameras and less harm to children of all parents who separate, as CCTV cameras, which we have rolled out, makes it well as to strengthen families along the lines of the much easier to monitor what is happening in prisons. marriage and relationship support initiative brought in For extreme situations, we are rolling out the ability to by Lord Mackay? use pepper spray. The key will be not the protective equipment but having in place the right support and Lucy Frazer: Wein the Ministry of Justice are committed training for prison officers, to make sure that their to the institution of marriage and recognise the value behaviour to a prisoner is appropriate, both to challenge that it brings to the children of a marriage, as well as to and to reform. That involves investing in our senior society as a whole. Our proposals and consultation on staff to provide that model. divorce are about looking at how to make the process easier when the very difficult decision to divorce has Ellie Reeves (Lewisham West and Penge) (Lab): Data been made. Of course, any measures to strengthen shows that a third of new prison officers leave the families would be welcome. service within the first two years, so even if the Government meet their 2,500 recruitment target, nearly 800 officers Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): Will the Minister will leave within the first 24 months. What steps will the outline the steps that have been taken specifically to Minister take to address the shockingly low level of address the reform of fathers’ rights during divorce staff retention in the Prison Service? proceedings on access to children? Rory Stewart: I am glad to say that attrition rates are beginning to stabilise, but they are of course a massive Lucy Frazer: All parents’rights are incredibly important, concern. More decent, cleaner, less drug-filled and violent but in the family court the heart of every case is the prisons will be important for staff morale, and the right child’s best interests. That is the basis on which judges training—we are transforming training courses—will make their determination. There is a presumption that be central for prison officers. We have a huge opportunity. contact with both mother and father is in the child’s These are young, idealistic people, often with fantastic interests, but each case depends on its own facts. communication skills. We need to invest in them, because they are the foundation for the future of the Prison Gloria De Piero (Ashfield) (Lab): Women’s Aid has Service.

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