T Y N W A L D C O U R T O F F I C I A L R E P O R T
R E C O R T Y S O I K O I L Q U A I Y L T I N V A A L
P R O C E E D I N G S
D A A L T Y N
HANSARD
Douglas, Tuesday, 9th April 2019
All published Official Reports can be found on the Tynwald website:
www.tynwald.org.im/business/hansard
Supplementary material provided subsequent to a sitting is also published to the website as a Hansard Appendix. Reports, maps and other documents referred to in the course of debates may be consulted on application to the Tynwald Library or the Clerk of Tynwald’s Office.
Volume 136, No. 10
ISSN 1742-2256
Published by the Office of the Clerk of Tynwald, Legislative Buildings, Finch Road, Douglas, Isle of Man, IM1 3PW. © High Court of Tynwald, 2019 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
Present:
The President of Tynwald (Hon. S C Rodan)
In the Council: The Lord Bishop of Sodor and Man (The Rt Rev. P A Eagles), The Attorney General (Mr J L M Quinn QC), Miss T M August-Hanson, Mr D C Cretney, Mr T M Crookall, Mr R W Henderson, Mrs M M Maska, Mrs K A Lord-Brennan, Mrs J P Poole-Wilson and Mrs K Sharpe with Mr J D C King, Deputy Clerk of Tynwald.
In the Keys: The Deputy Speaker (Mr C R Robertshaw) (Douglas East); The Chief Minister (Hon. R H Quayle) (Middle); Mr J R Moorhouse and Hon. G D Cregeen (Arbory, Castletown and Malew); Hon. A L Cannan and Mr T S Baker (Ayre and Michael); Hon. C C Thomas and Mrs C A Corlett (Douglas Central); Miss C L Bettison (Douglas East); Hon. D J Ashford and Mr G R Peake (Douglas North); Hon. W M Malarkey (Douglas South); Mr M J Perkins and Mrs D H P Caine (Garff); Hon. R K Harmer and Hon. G G Boot (Glenfaba and Peel); Mr W C Shimmins (Middle); Mr R E Callister (Onchan); Dr A J Allinson and Mr L L Hooper (Ramsey); Hon. L D Skelly (Rushen); with Mr R I S Phillips, Clerk of Tynwald.
______1146 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
Business transacted
Leave of absence granted ...... 1149 Tribute to Garry Homer, Tynwald Messenger ...... 1149 Tribute to Jack Corrin CBE, former First Deemster ...... 1150 1. Papers laid before the Court ...... 1150 Questions for Oral Answer ...... 1152 1. Electric buses – Purchase by Bus Vannin ...... 1152 2. SAVE initiative – Ensuring unallocated savings target is reached ...... 1153 3. New technology bus services – When DOI intends to trial ...... 1156 4. Peel Marina silt – Removal, storage and final deposit ...... 1164 5. Housing allocation criteria – Removal of emergency housing requirement ...... 1166 6. BBC Isle of Man operation – Discussions ...... 1167 7. Council of Ministers’ Single Legal Entity Sub-Committee – Report for debate in Tynwald ...... 1171 8. Castle Rushen visitors – Year of Our Island closing festivities ...... 1175 9. High net worth individuals – DfE definition ...... 1177 10. Home or Privately Educated Register – Ensuring GDPR compliance ...... 1178 11. Newly built domestic properties – Testing for air tightness ...... 1179 12. Street lighting – Progress of switching to LED ...... 1181 13. Smart metering – Progress of introduction ...... 1183 Questions for Written Answer ...... 1185 14. Benefits paid where otherwise harsh and oppressive – Number of cases, costs and monitoring ...... 1185 15. Taylor review of modern working practices – Government implementation of recommendations ...... 1186 16. Conflicts of interest– Public appointments and business financial interests ...... 1187 17. Isle of Man Business Park and surroundings – DfE financial assistance ...... 1188 18. Swimming pools’ water quality – Frequency of testing ...... 1189 19. Type 1 diabetes – Digital glucose monitors on prescription ...... 1190 20. International Conference on Integrated Care – Attendance by DHSC post holders .... 1191 21. Integrated care – Target operating model and business case ...... 1192 22. Abortion Reform Act 2019 implementation – DHSC divisional budget allocations ...... 1192 23. Abortion Reform Act 2019 implementation – DHSC divisional funding process ...... 1193 24. Bus Vannin buses – Annual fuel costs and mileage; operational life; electric buses .... 1193 25. Damage to Government property – Insurance claims in last five years ...... 1194
______1147 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
26. Public sector housing criteria – Number of times varied or waived in last five years.. 1195 27. Public sector housing criteria – Applicants accepted without meeting relevant criteria ...... 1195 28. Public Sector Housing (General Needs) (Allocation) Policy 2019 – Definition of allocation; relevant properties ...... 1196 Order of the Day ...... 1197 3. Planning Policy – Statement by the Minister for Policy and Reform ...... 1197 Tribute to Jack Corrin CBE – correction ...... 1205 4. Programme for Government – 2019/20 Report: Year 3 Amendments – Debate commenced ...... 1205 The Court adjourned at 1.01 p.m. and resumed at 2.30 p.m...... 1210 Programme for Government – Debate continued – Motion carried ...... 1210 5. Constitutional and Legal Affairs and Justice Committee – Second Report for the Session 2018-10: Criminal Justice Strategy – Motion carried ...... 1212 6. European Union and Trade Act 2019 – European Union and Trade Act 2019 (Deficiencies) (DEFA) (No. 3) Regulations 2019 approved ...... 1222 7. Motor Vehicles (International Circulation) Act 1955 – Road Vehicles (International Circulation) (Amendment) Order 2019 approved ...... 1223 8. Inquiries (Evidence) Act 2003 – Port St Mary Village Commissioners’ reduction of elected members – Motion carried ...... 1224 9. Local Government Act 1985 – Douglas (Alteration of Wards and Numbers of Members) Order 2019 approved ...... 1225 10. European Union and Trade Act 2019 – European Union and Trade Act 2019 (Retained Direct EU Legislation) (Customs) (No.2) Regulations 2019 approved...... 1227 11. Value Added Tax Act 1996 – Value Added Tax (Input Tax) (Specified Supplies) (Amendment) Order 2019 approved ...... 1227 12.-16. Customs and Excise Act 1993 – Taxation (Cross-Border Trade) Act 2018 (Application) Order 2019 approved; Customs and Excise Management Act 1986 – Customs and Excise Management Act 1986 (Amendment) Order 2019 approved; Value Added Tax Act 1996 – Value Added Tax Act 1996 (Amendment) Order 2019 approved; Customs and Excise Act 1986 – Customs and Excise Acts 1986 (Amendment) Order 2019 approved; Customs and Excise Act 1993 – Customs and Excise Acts (Application) (Amendment) Order 2019 approved ...... 1228 Announcement of Royal Assent – Ecclesiastical Jurisdiction and Care of Churches Measure (Isle of Man) 2018 ...... 1230 Thanks and good wishes to the Seneschal, Paul Dougherty ...... 1230 Procedural ...... 1231 The Council withdrew...... 1231 House of Keys ...... 1231 The House adjourned at 3.37 p.m...... 1231
______1148 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
Tynwald
The Court met at 10.30 a.m.
[MR PRESIDENT in the Chair]
The Deputy Clerk: Hon. Members, please rise for the President of Tynwald.
The President: Moghrey mie, good morning, Hon. Members.
5 Members: Moghrey mie, Mr President.
The President: The Lord Bishop will lead us in prayer.
PRAYERS The Lord Bishop
The Lord Bishop: Eternal God, we hold before you our work of this day, praying for one another and commending to your care the soul of Garry, our friend and our colleague, and 10 praying for the comfort of his family. As we pray for one another, we ask that you will strengthen in all of us in this Court and all who lead the nations of the world a belief in the dignity of every human being, a belief in the values of justice freedom and peace, that we may grow in respect and understanding for one another, and righteousness be established in the Earth. 15 Through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.
Leave of absence granted
The President: Hon. Members, I have given leave of absence to Mrs Beecroft; to Ms Edge; to Mr Speaker, who is off-Island on parliamentary business; and to Mr Perkins, who is off Island on Government business.
Tribute to Garry Homer, Tynwald Messenger
The President: Hon. Members, it was with great sorrow that we learned of the sudden death 20 at the weekend of our Messenger, Garry Homer. Garry joined us as a security guard in 2007 after a career at Ronaldsway Aircraft Company and since then gave us indeed faithful service as a Messenger and as a friend to Hon. Members. He will be missed by us and his friends in Douglas Golf Club and Lon Dhoo Male Voice Choir. To his wife, Margaret, and family we send our deepest condolences.
______1149 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
Tribute to Jack Corrin CBE, former First Deemster
25 The President: You will also be sorry to know of the passing of His Honour Jack Corrin. John William Corrin, known as Jack, was born in the Isle of Man in 1932 and was educated at Fairfield and Murray’s Road schools and had a scholarship to King William’s College, and on leaving became articled to a Manx advocate and called to the Manx Bar in 1954. He went on to become a senior partner at the law firm Dickinson Cruickshank and Company. 30 In 1974, Jack was appointed Her Majesty’s Attorney General for the Isle of Man, an office he held until 1980 when he was appointed Second Deemster, and he became First Deemster and Clerk of the Rolls in 1988, in which capacities he promulgated the laws from Tynwald Hill in English and in Manx for a period of 18 years. In addition to his constitutional work, Jack Corrin was perhaps very well known as a selfless 35 supporter of numerous causes, charitable, in the Isle of Man. We particularly think of the Manx Blind Welfare Society, of SSAFA and the Manx Workshop for the Disabled, of which he was chairman for 28 years. In 1995 Deemster Corrin was awarded the CBE in recognition of public service to the Island and in 1998 he was made a Freeman of the Borough of Douglas. The Tynwald Honour was 40 bestowed on him on Tynwald Day 2012. The citation for His Honour was somewhat modest: constitutionalist and supporter of charitable causes. One might think that is a fairly modest description of what he achieved but he was in life a modest man in disposition; but he, in a lifetime of public service, was a true Manx gentleman who gave selfless commitment, along with his late wife Pat’s similarly selfless commitment, to the Island and its welfare. 45 To his daughter, Jane, and wider family we extend our deepest sympathy. Hon. Members, shall we rise for a moment in silent tribute?
Members stood in silence.
1. Papers laid before the Court
The President: We turn to our Order Paper and I call on the Clerk to lay papers; and with the Court’s consent, he will lay the paper on the Supplementary Order Paper.
50 The Clerk: Ta mee cur roish y Whaiyl ny pabyryn enmyssit ayns ayrn nane jeh’n Chlaare Obbyr. Ta mee cur roish y Whaiyl ny pabyryn enmyssit ayns ayrn nane jeh’n Chlaare Obbyr Arbyllagh. I lay before the Court the papers listed at Item 1 of the Order Paper. I lay before the Court the papers listed at Item 1 of the Supplementary Order Paper.
European Union and Trade Act 2019 European Union and Trade Act 2019 (Retained Direct EU Legislation) (Customs) (No.2) Regulations 2019 [SD No 2019/0138] [MEMO] European Union and Trade Act 2019 (Deficiencies) (DEFA) (No. 3) Regulations 2019 [SD No 2019/0140] [MEMO]
Motor Vehicles (International Circulation) Act 1955 Road Vehicles (International Circulation) (Amendment) Order 2019 [SD No 2019/0094] [MEMO]
______1150 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
Local Government Act 1985 Douglas (Alteration of Wards and Numbers of Members) Order 2019 [SD No 2019/0137] [MEMO]
Value Added Tax Act 1996 Value Added Tax (Input Tax) (Specified Supplies) (Amendment) Order 2019 [SD No 2019/0118] [MEMO] Value Added Tax Act 1996 (Amendment) Order 2019 [SD No 2019/0082] [MEMO]
Customs and Excise Act 1986 Customs and Excise Acts 1986 (Amendment) Order 2019 [SD No 2019/0077] [MEMO] Customs and Excise Acts (Application) (Amendment) Order 2019 [SD No 2019/0083] [MEMO] Taxation (Cross-Border Trade) Act 2018 (Application) Order 2019 [SD No 2019/0080] [MEMO]
Customs and Excise Management Act 1986 Customs and Excise Management Act 1986 (Amendment) Order 2019 [SD No 2019/0081] [MEMO]
Reports
Programme for Government 2019/20 Report: Year 3 Amendments [GD No 2019/0016] [MEMO]
Constitutional and Legal Affairs and Justice Committee Second Report for the Session 2018- 2019: Criminal Justice Strategy [PP No 2019/0050]
The remaining items are not the subject of motions on the Order Paper
Documents subject to no procedure
Local Government Act 1985 Douglas (Alteration of Wards and Number of Members) Scheme 2018 [SD No 2018/0228] [MEMO] Port St Mary (Number of Members) Scheme 2019 [SD No 2019/0061] [MEMO]
Air Navigation (Isle of Man) Order 2015 Air Navigation (Restriction of Flying) (TT Races) Regulations 2019 [SD No 2019/0126] [MEMO] Air Navigation (Restriction of Flying) (TT Flying Displays: Red Arrows) Regulations 2019 [SD No 2019/0127] [MEMO] Air Navigation (Restriction of Flying) (Tynwald Day) Regulations 2019 [SD No 2019/0128] [MEMO] Air Navigation (Restriction of Flying) (Festival of Motorcycling) Regulations [SD No 2019/0129] [MEMO]
Documents subject to negative resolution
National Health Service Act 2001 National Health Service (Pharmaceutical Services) (Amendment) Regulations 2019 [SD No 2019/0148] [MEMO] ______1151 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
Immigration Act 1971 Statement of Changes in Immigration Rules [SD No 2019/0143] [MEMO] Immigration (Provision of Physical Data) Regulations 2019 [SD No 2019/0145] [MEMO] Immigration (European Economic Area Nationals) (EU Exit) Order 2019 [SD No 2019/0146] [MEMO] Immigration (Leave to Enter and Remain) Order 2019 [SD No 2019/0147] [MEMO]
Appointed Day Orders Criminal Evidence Act 2019 Criminal Evidence Act 2019 (Appointed Day) Order 2019 [SD No 2019/0144] [MEMO]
Reports
Smart Services Programme Framework Proposal [GD No 2019/0017]
Subsistence allowances [GC No 2019/0002] [MEMO]
West Midland Quality Reviews 2013-2018 [GD No 2019/0018]
Supplementary Order Paper No. 1
European Union and Trade Act 2019 European Union and Trade Act 2019 (Amendment of Exit Day) Regulations 2019 [SD No 2019/0181] [MEMO]
Questions for Oral Answer
TREASURY
1. Electric buses – Purchase by Bus Vannin
The Hon. Member for Garff (Mrs Caine) to ask the Treasury Minister:
Whether the Minister supports the purchase of electric buses by Bus Vannin?
55 The President: We turn now to Questions and I call the Hon. Member for Garff, Mrs Caine.
Mrs Caine: Thank you, Mr President. I would like to ask the Treasury Minister whether he, as Minister, supports the purchase of electric buses by Bus Vannin? 60 The President: I call on the Treasury Minister, Mr Cannan, to reply.
______1152 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
The Minister for the Treasury (Mr Cannan): Mr President, policy decisions regarding the specification of what type of buses are purchased and employed is the responsibility of the 65 Department of Infrastructure. Business cases for funding are assessed by Treasury to ensure that they reflect value for money and are considerate of wider Government policies before the budget is recommended to Tynwald. Treasury approval is required where the item cost exceeds £250,000 but Treasury would otherwise only become involved if the Department of Infrastructure wished to adopt a 70 procurement process that did not follow the usual commercial tendering process, as set out in financial regulations.
The President: Supplementary, Mrs Caine.
75 Mrs Caine: Thank you, Mr President and I thank the Minister for his Answer. Can the Minister confirm whether Bus Vannin has ever sought Treasury support to purchase an electric bus or a hydrogen powered bus or even a hybrid bus, in fact, has our public transport division even once sought Treasury support to purchase any non-diesel bus, could he tell us?
80 The President: Treasury Minister to reply.
The Minister: Not during my time as Treasury Minister.
The President: Mrs Caine, supplementary. 85 Mrs Caine: Thank you and thank you, Minister. Finally could the Minister confirm whether Treasury, in line with the wider Government policies, would be prepared to take into consideration the benefits of an eco-friendly electric or hybrid bus over traditional diesel, both in terms of the benefit to the environment along with 90 the whole lifetime costs as opposed to just the purchase price? When they are looking for value for money do they also look at the wider environmental benefits, in line with Government policy, if this matter came before them?
The President: Minister to reply. 95 The Minister: No, Mr President, I am not knowledgeable on the inner workings or practical applications of an electric bus but what I would say to the Hon. Member is that Treasury will always support sensible business cases that are in line with Government policies and that represent value for money for the taxpayer.
2. SAVE initiative – Ensuring unallocated savings target is reached
The Hon. Member for Ramsey (Mr Hooper) to ask the Treasury Minister:
Further to his Answer in the House of Keys on 5th March 2019, how he intends to ensure the unallocated savings target of £15 million by 2022-23 is reached?
100 The President: Question 2, Hon. Member for Ramsey, Mr Hooper.
Mr Hooper: Thank you very much, Mr President.
______1153 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
I would like to ask the Treasury Minister, further to his Answer in the House of Keys on 5th March 2019, how he intends to ensure the unallocated savings target of £15 million by 2022- 105 23 is reached?
The President: I call on the Minister to reply, Mr Cannan.
The Minister for the Treasury (Mr Cannan): Mr President, the figure of £15 million included 110 in unallocated savings for 2022-23 of the Pink Book has been included to provide an indication of the variation of income and expenditure that will be required to meet the anticipated revenue impact from the expected depletion of the public sector pensions reserve at that point. It is very important that Hon. Members recognise that this is an estimated figure and there are a number of assumptions, underlying factors and risks, positive and negative, that can 115 impact on the estimate. The assumptions include revenue growth from predictions of economic performance, unemployment levels and so on. The Hon. Member is quite right in raising this issue as one of the risks that we face. The five- year financial forecast is based on the broad assumption that income will rise faster than expenditure with cost control measures in place to restrict spending. In addition to restriction on 120 growth on pay and non-pay budgets one of the control measures has been the SAVE programme, initiated by Treasury, but under the control of the Council of Ministers. As was outlined in the SAVE report to Tynwald last June, whilst we have secured a number of savings and initiated further project work, with business cases to be developed, it is fair to say that securing savings through this route has been challenging and continues to be so. I am confident 125 that further reductions and service improvements can be achieved and I intend to bring an update on the programme to Tynwald before the end of this parliamentary year. I am also alive to the fact that this route may not deliver all the savings that we require. So logically in the event that the SAVE control mechanism cannot fully deliver then other measures will need to be instigated to achieve the highlighted objective, i.e. to meet the 130 revenue gap due to the depletion of the public sector pensions reserve. As I highlighted to Hon. Members in my Budget speech, we have a great deal to be confident about, including our higher than anticipated levels of revenue, but there are also a number of great uncertainties. For example, the impact of Brexit decisions is still unknown, the results of the expenditure survey determining our VAT revenue levels is in progress, we are awaiting the 135 report from Sir Jonathan Michael on future healthcare systems and funding, all of which could have an impact on our future budget requirements, both positively or negatively. The overall position therefore is being monitored closely by the Treasury and the required actions and approach will be determined during the annual budgeting process.
140 The President: Supplementary question, Mr Hooper.
Mr Hooper: Thank you very much, Mr President. I would like to thank the Treasury Minister for that quite comprehensive Answer. Whilst I accept that there are a number of underlying assumptions that have been made in putting 145 together this figure, I am reassured that Treasury is normally quite prudent in its approach and so the figure is most likely to be reasonably accurate. I would like to ask the Treasury Minister that in his Answer of 5th March he only identified just over a million pounds’ worth of savings that would actually be reached by 2022-23 and I was just wondering if he would be able to outline some of the challenges that he is facing with the 150 SAVE programme and whether he could explain, in his view, are Departments doing enough to try and meet this unallocated savings target?
The President: Reply, sir.
______1154 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
155 The Minister: The Hon Member will recognise that outlined in the report that I gave to Tynwald last year there were a number of measures that are currently underway, including a review into legal aid, including some consolidation, higher education consolidation, within the Department of Education, an integrated bus and rail strategy that is forecast at over £1 million over three years, reviews of casual agency worker terms and conditions, introduction of Lean Six 160 Sigma and contract review and efficiency reviews in the Cabinet Office and also an asset management review that is undergoing work in Treasury. All these workstreams themselves should deliver millions of pounds’ worth of savings. But, as the Hon. Member rightly identifies, and as Treasury have not been backwards in coming forwards in identifying, there are considerable risks and it is unlikely that we will meet the full £15 million of savings that have 165 been identified. As I have said to Hon. Members in the Budget, there are a considerable number of risks, but there are also a number of significant positives, including the income stream that we are currently receiving from our above budget income tax receipts and other revenue that is coming into Treasury. If economic growth continues in the way that is planned and the VAT agreement 170 comes in as we have forecast, then I am confident that we will be in a good position come 2022-23. However, I highlight to Hon. Members the risks and I have also made clear in my Budget we will monitor that closely and we will not be afraid to take action in a budget if we feel that we are as an Island or as a Government not going to meet our commitments to ensure a smooth passage through the depletion of the public sector pensions reserve. 175 The President: Supplementary question, Mr Hooper.
Mr Hooper: Thank you very much, Mr President. Again I would like to thank the Treasury Minister for outlining some of the challenges that he 180 is facing. One of the things he just mentioned is there will be a lot of active monitoring of the SAVE programme targets as they are going along. There are a number of items that are underway that he mentioned there – the casual agencies, the contract reviews, the efficiency reviews – none of which have estimated savings targets attached, none of which seem to be aiming to deliver any savings over the next three or four years. So I am just wondering if the 185 Treasury Minister can explain how he is monitoring progress with these projects when there are not any savings targets attached to them.
The President: Minister.
190 The Minister: Well, we are monitoring progress. I meet regularly with those involved in Treasury with the SAVE programme to assess progress, and as I stated in my opening remarks to your Question, I will give this Hon. Court an update later this year. So I am committed to coming back to delivering an update. At that point I will be able to give a clearer picture to the Hon. Member and indeed Hon. 195 Members as to the overall progress of SAVE and in those particular areas which did not have specific figures attached we will be able to come back and feedback more precisely as to what is likely to be achieved in those identified areas.
The President: Final supplementary, Mr Hooper. 200 Mr Hooper: Thank you, Mr President; it is my last question for the Minister. He mentioned as well that he is not expecting the SAVE programme by itself to deliver all of the savings that will be necessary and that other measures may be necessary and that he will not be afraid to take action in a future budget should it be required. I wonder if the Treasury 205 Minister could briefly outline what some of those other measures might be?
______1155 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
The President: Minister.
The Minister: As I have told the Hon. Member, I think we have been very transparent in 210 terms of how we have set out our budgets and very clear about what the challenges are that are facing us. The Hon. Member will recognise that we have also been quite prudent in some areas about our revenue forecasts. So I remain confident, at the moment, that our economic growth is in a good position, and that with our cost control measures that we have currently applied both to pay and Department 215 spending in other areas, that with a good wind and good fortune with us the predictions and forecasts that we have made will deliver a smooth passage for Government finances through a very tricky period in 2022-23. And, of course, the SAVE programme itself, there are other measures that are taking place at the moment, other assessments being made of Government spending that will in due course be brought to the Hon. Court’s attention once we have clarity as 220 to whether there are in fact further savings to be made. So there is more to be done within the SAVE programme itself, that is absolutely one area where further cost savings or efficiencies can be brought forward. As I said, the prudence within the Budget in terms of income levels is a positive, as are our cost controls. The Hon. Member is quite right, the risks that I have highlighted remain. I think that in my 225 Budget speech, Mr. President, I was absolutely clear with this Hon. Court that complacency should not settle upon this Government and that the risks associated with broader economic factors and economic factors closer to home could impact on the budget. And as I assured the Hon. Court at the time we would continue to monitor the situation and if we ever felt that we were in danger of not fulfilling our objectives I will obviously let this Hon. Court know and we 230 will readjust our budgetary plans as needed.
INFRASTRUCTURE
3. New technology bus services – When DOI intends to trial
The Hon. Member for Garff (Mrs Caine) to ask the Minister for Infrastructure:
When his Department will undertake trials of new technology bus services on the Isle of Man?
The President: Question 3, Hon. Member for Garff, Mrs Caine.
Mrs Caine: I would like to ask the Minister for Infrastructure when his Department will undertake trials of new technology bus services on the Isle of Man? 235 The President: I call on the Minister for Infrastructure, Mr Harmer.
The Minister for Infrastructure (Mr Harmer): Thank you, Mr President. Every year my officers take into consideration updates from the industry and how they can 240 be applied in the Isle of Man. We have made many investments over recent years providing new ticketing options, Smart cards, next stop announcements, a mobile phone app, a journey planner, Euro VI emission engines and of course new buses. The latest trial vehicles had micro hybrid power, USB charges and passenger feedback points. 245 I would hope that, of all those in this Court, the Hon. Member would agree that we have an excellent bus service provided by great staff doing a great job. ______1156 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
The President: Members may remove jackets if they wish. Mrs Caine, supplementary.
250 Mrs Caine: Thank you, Mr President. I would agree with the Minister that we have an excellent, comfortable bus service, but the question specifically relates to new technologies in bus services. I am aware that they have been trialling a number of new technology buses over December and January. I think what I would like to know is does the Minister expect those trials will have been completed by Bus Vannin before 255 any new buses are ordered? Could the Minister confirm when the Department last ordered new buses for public transport and when it next expects to replace any of its fleet; and is there any possibility that these would include new technology buses?
The President: Minister to reply. 260 The Minister: Thank you, Mr President. In the wider context absolutely there will be new technology. I think that the question is more around emissions. During the last 10 years the main developments with hybrid buses have been aimed at city centre operations, whereas we have a more inter-urban style of operation, 265 higher speeds and higher mileage. Later this year the Department is to take delivery of a demonstrator bus which uses the latest hybrid technology. This will enable the Department to see if advances will benefit our style of operation. This will be the first time the manufacturer has been willing to lend us a demonstrator as up to now our requirements have been outside the technology available. We 270 also have evaluated the options with compressed natural gas (CNG) as a fuel which is being extensively used in France. The costs of building and maintaining pumping stations have reliability. Vehicles have been issued. Bearing in mind that Euro VI technology in diesel is cleaner than the gas bus, we have ruled out this option at this present time.
275 The President: Hon. Member for Middle, Mr Shimmins.
Mr Shimmins: Thank you, Mr President. I am aware that the Department of Infrastructure has recently forged close links with the city of Liverpool and our Merseyside friends now have a fleet of electric buses and indeed have now 280 added hydrogen buses which are zero emission. Will he consult with Liverpool with a view to taking on board best practice, to see if we can introduce electric and hydrogen buses to our Island?
The President: Mr Harmer. 285 The Minister: Thank you. Of course we will and of course I am very keen on this technology, I am very keen to move as fast as we can. Obviously, as the Treasury Minister said, we have to be responsible within our budget. It has to be good financial sense as well. 290 I think, let’s remember, Members, that whilst there are trials there is a whole impact of service parts, fleets and the whole cost of operation, so we have to do this in a very managed approach. But of course I absolutely will be trying to move very forward, very quickly. For example, just to give some background on electric buses, Mercedes have just launched their electric Citaro MVV and Mannheim are the first operator. They have found that what the 295 mileage will do is actually very weather dependent and as low as 130 km a day when it is cold. I understand that they believe this problem is solvable and expect the worldwide launch of phase 3 design to be on the road in 2021.
______1157 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
We will, in that period, get the opportunity to see the inside of this experiment and certainly we can ask to see it demonstrated, see how available the technology is here. So ultimately, we 300 could have electric buses running on trial in 2022. We have got to bear in mind our topography; we are not a city, we do not have those short lengths. We actually have an inter-urban concept, so we have to have the right bus for what we have. Also we need to bear in mind that technology is moving very fast, so when we do pick the right bus for us or the right fleet of buses we have a fleet replacement policy. Obviously, as you 305 know, and as Members are aware, I am very keen that we move this within our financial planning as quickly as we can, but obviously we have to do it within what technology is there and what technology is best for us.
The President: Hon. Members, I have five further supplementary questions. I would ask that 310 we are please not repetitive and remind you this is not a debate. Hon. Member for Ramsey, Mr Hooper.
Mr Hooper: Thank you very much, Mr President. The Minister mentioned in his original response about new technology that they have got an 315 app where you can use it to buy tickets. I am just wondering if the Minister has any plans to widen the use of this new technology to upgrade and streamline the quite cumbersome Go card system that is currently in use across Bus Vannin?
The President: Minister to reply. 320 The Minister: Thank you. I think that is a debate about Go cards, which is a completely different debate and whether people feel that there are too many or too less. Sometimes people talk about Oyster Cards and things like that, but actually they have many different cards in other jurisdictions and they talk 325 about the merits of one card over another. This really is not a debate about Go cards; this is a debate about technology, but I agree with the sentiment wherever possible and what we have seen, for example, with contactless and all of these good things, Wi-Fi on the bus – it is absolutely important that our buses have good technology, that they are comfortable and I think that is what we have delivered. 330 But obviously all of these changes have to be managed and of course in this Court last month we talked about electric vehicle policy and how the Department is very keen that we lead by example and by 2030 see 300 vehicles that are electric and also that we work with the MUA and other institutions to deliver electric vehicles. I think I am very passionate about this, but it has to be done obviously at the right time and we have to work with other agencies. 335 The President: Hon. Member for Douglas East, Miss Bettison.
Miss Bettison: Thank you. The Minister talked about the bus that we were taking delivery of on a trial basis. I wonder if 340 he could give some idea of what the weighting would be on cost versus the capability of those buses, and what mileage we would have as an average for our buses in a day just in terms of the expectation he talked about with the limitations on electric buses?
The President: Reply, sir. 345 The Minister: Okay, electric buses have had some trials in Germany; the number of miles was quite small – well, kilometres – it was 130. Obviously we want a lot more than that. If there were to be electric buses or hybrid buses they are best suited to Douglas so that is where we would move first. ______1158 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
350 But just to give you a scale of how technology has changed, hybrid buses, for example, were 150% more cost, batteries were costing £140,000 and they were lasting three to five years – that was a few years ago; now the differential is about £12,000 for a hybrid bus. So this is a very rapidly moving space. It is one where we have got to make very wise decisions because if we jump in too soon, obviously a fleet should have the same vehicles; you do not want one vehicle 355 from one hybrid bus and electric bus; you do not want a mish-mash, you actually want a considered policy and that is what we will be trying to deliver.
The President: Hon. Member, Mrs Caine.
360 Mrs Caine: Thank you, Mr President. Can I ask the Minister: I did not hear an answer to my previous supplementary question as to when the Department last ordered replacement buses for its fleet and when it will next be expecting to take delivery or placing an order for replacement buses? Because in 2016 Tynwald committed to the Island reducing its greenhouse gas emissions by 80% by 2050, compared with 365 1990 levels, I would like the Minister to clarify what his Department’s road map is to get there
and contribute to that. Can the Minister confirm what is the current tonnage of CO2 emissions over a year by public transport; what were they in the 1990s; so what is his target for 2050 or at periods up to that date?
370 The President: Minister.
The Minister: Okay. Thank you, Mr President. In essence, we are improving our buses all along, we are moving to Euro VI standard and I believe we have recently taken order of those. We take orders every year. We are looking to 375 have more and more environmentally-friendly buses, but I suppose my main point would be that we could be talking about around the edges here because in actual fact the best thing for all of us to do is take the bus rather than the car, and what we will be doing is trying to introduce more policies this year that will try to encourage people to, let’s say for example, take a bus on a Friday or things like that. Because I think we are in danger of going down the detail of the bus 380 but the bus compared to the CO2 emissions of cars is significantly less than the 20, 30 or 40 people that are carried in cars. So I think there is a bigger, wider issue. That is why I have been passionate on active travelling and passionate on buses, and I am passionate on electric vehicles. So I think you have to see this in a wider context of a strategy of lowering our emissions. 385 The President: Mr Shimmins.
Mr Shimmins: Thank you, Mr President. The Minister mentioned that Mercedes have recently introduced a new electric Citaro bus 390 which is very similar to the buses we have except it does not produce emissions, and they are running in Berlin and Hamburg. Unfortunately, Mercedes have been a lot slower than other manufacturers to embrace these new electric buses. How tied is the Department to procuring these buses from Mercedes? Will they consider other brands who are farther down this journey? 395 The President: Minister.
The Minister: Thank you. I hear the point but what we have got to remember – and the danger that we have here, and 400 we are trying to develop a fleet policy in this Court, which I think is very dangerous – is that if you have multiple types of different vehicles with multiple different parts, you obviously have to ______1159 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
have spare parts for all of those different vehicles. So as we move our policy, as we develop and as the Member knows, and all Members know, I am very keen that we do this and we get to an environmental … the best technology we can, we have to move in a considered way. 405 So, for sake of argument, if there was a particular bus brand that over the next 10 years looked to be the winner in a particular way in electric buses or so forth then that would be a consideration. But I think what we cannot do is have one bus from one manufacturer, one bus from another manufacturer. We would have a very poor … It is about the management, it is about the skills. People have to train in those parts, so we have got to be very careful that we do 410 not have a mish-mash of different vehicles that actually would cause more service delivery problems. The most important thing I would urge Members to consider is that we have a good bus network that is reliable, that has good parts and a modern fleet.
415 The President: My list is growing. Hon. Member of Council, Miss August-Hanson.
Miss August- Hanson: Thank you, Mr President. I would just like to ask the Minister for Infrastructure whether or not he would agree that this is not necessarily just about the technology itself, but it is also about interconnecting with 420 cycling; that perhaps there might be other ways that are cheaper than relying on exponential tech that we might make in the meantime; and whether or not he has any interest in intermodal transportation regarding cycling, so that perhaps tourists and commuters might potentially go half way by bus and then may be able to –?
425 The President: Hon. Member, this is not a debate and this subject is being widened. A question has been put. Minister.
The Minister: Thank you. I think I would say we are very keen to embrace new technology; active travel is a really 430 important part of an overall strategy and, again, the inter-working of buses and walking. Obviously walking and cycling have the lowest carbon emissions and therefore if we can encourage more of that and at least give people the choice I think that would be excellent. We want to see that sort of inter-working. I am very keen that we do that as an Island and I think that is why we have got the right strategies with our electric vehicle strategy, with our Active 435 Travel Strategy and the work that we talked about in another place regarding emissions. So I think it is a wider piece that we are talking about, but absolutely we are committed to take on a trial this year. It depends how the trial goes. If the trial is successful, obviously that will see those buses becoming more widespread.
440 The President: Hon. Member for Douglas North, Mr Peake.
Mr Peake: Thank you, Mr President. I am glad to hear that the Minister realises that you do have to plan these things. It is very important to do that; it is not about development policy on the hoof. But there are many people 445 who do plan and make a statement. The Mayor of London, Sadiq Khan, actually said in 2016 that he would not buy any diesel buses after 2018 and he stuck to that. He is actually now buying electric buses. When will the Minister, here in the Isle of Man, of Infrastructure commit to making a vision for new technology buses? 450 The President: Minister.
______1160 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
The Minister: That is absolutely the purpose of the trials, because let’s consider whilst the bus might be appropriate for London when we have longer distances, higher mileage, if they 455 break down in the middle of nowhere then we will have a situation where the bus is not served and our primary focus has to be service of the bus. So once the technology is right for the Isle of Man, and we will do those trials to do that, we absolutely will bring those buses in.
Mr Cretney: Plenty of room on top! 460 The President: Mrs Caine.
Mrs Caine: Thank you, Mr President. Can I ask the Minister again, for absolute clarity, to respond to my previous questions, when 465 has he last ordered buses, when does he expect to take the next delivery of buses and what are
the CO2 emissions or reduction in those? In the low emissions transport policy he brought to Tynwald last month, he said his Department will show innovation, leadership and vision in encouraging the widespread adoption of low emission vehicles. Does he intend that to be for Bus Vannin or is the onus on the public 470 embracing the new technology? In terms of trialling buses, I understand the Department trialled the Wrightbus Micro Hybrid bus between December and January, and the Alexander Dennis Enviro bus was trialled over 30 days also. What happened as a result of those trials? Is there any possibility that those buses would be suitable for the Isle of Man? 475 The President: Minister to reply.
The Minister: Thank you.
Some of those detailed questions about CO2 emissions and bus orders, I will distribute to 480 Members that information. Regarding the trials, obviously that is what is influencing our decision. We were very bold in our policy – in the fleet policy; it was not just about electric cars, it was actually about our fleet – we said 300 vehicles by 2030. That was our vision to replace with electric vehicles, so we are very committed, we are leading in this way and we will deal with it as the technology allows. 485 The President: Hon. Member for Arbory, Castletown and Malew, Mr Moorhouse.
Mr Moorhouse: Thank you, Mr President. Does the Minister agree that in addition to environmental considerations, customer service 490 and costs are two of the key measures which must be considered when updating the fleet; and alternatives have been actively trialled here in the last 12 months which is allowing us to have really effective planning going forward?
The President: Minister. 495 The Minister: Yes, Mr President, I would agree with that. It is as we get this information and it is about service and cost. Whilst we would all like to see everything as soon as we can, we have to do those trials and we have to make considered judgements.
500 The President: Hon. Member of Council, Mr Crookall.
Mr Crookall: Thank you, Mr President. The Minister pointed out before in his statement that his reasons for wanting to stick basically with Mercedes, by the sounds of it, and as my colleague, Mrs Caine, said just now, that ______1161 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
505 there were trials with two other buses recently, two other makes recently … The buses we have at the moment, the diesel buses, are the Mercedes make. But into the future when we go down the electric or the hybrid route they are more likely to be something else. I would suggest if they are already being trialled out there now might be a good time to try an electric bus from whichever make along the Promenade, so that people living in the middle have a chance to 510 operate. Would he commit to having a look at that so people do not have to cross from one side to the other to get the bus by walking nearly a mile? If he had a bus going up and down there, an electric bus, it would suit people and be a good trial for the Island.
The President: Minister to reply. 515 The Minister: Thank you. Yes, of course we will consider that, as I said with the other Member regarding the information we have for Liverpool. We have not just trialled Mercedes buses. As one Member pointed out, we have trialled with Alexander Dennis and all sorts of other buses. So of course we 520 will trial other buses and that information will guide our thinking going forward with our future fleet plans. My point was that what you do not want to do is knee-jerk from one fleet type of manufacturer to another; that you actually make a considered long-term plan. But in terms of trials, of course we will look into what other trials we can do, because I am equally passionate 525 as, I think, a lot of Members here that we do move forward with this technology as soon as practically we can.
The President: Miss August-Hanson.
530 Miss August-Hanson: Thank you, Mr President. I would just like to ask the Minister how much budget has been set aside for this?
The President: Reply, sir.
535 The Minister: Thank you. We can obviously provide information for what was in the budget in terms of our fleet replacement programme; that was in the budget. But in terms of trials, obviously we work those within the budgets. I can obviously supply those figures as well.
540 The President: Hon. Member, Mr Hooper.
Mr Hooper: Thank you, Mr President. The Minister has quite well outlined, I think, some of the strategic issues around the implementation of new technology and he has mentioned several times the need for a proper 545 plan around bringing this in. I would just like to ask the Minister: will some of these strategic issues around technology be addressed by his new integrated transport strategy that is coming forward? Will a target date for an all-electric or a low carbon fleet be built into that integrated transport strategy; and when does he intend to lay that before Tynwald?
550 The President: Minister to reply.
The Minister: Thank you, Mr President. We may be conflating two issues. Certainly it is something we need to do the research on and that is why we need the trials, because our network is very different to inner city, urban 555 networks, so if we were to move to an all-electric it may not be within the same timeframe as some of those other jurisdictions. ______1162 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
So we will consider it. Whether it will actually be electric buses, we will fully consider the integrated strategy that we need to determine, because the trouble is the technology is moving so fast that we do not want to make a premature decision that could end being costly. But 560 obviously that is something that I will consider and it will be something that we will plan for further and we will plan an electric bus strategy, because, Members, I am keen that we do move towards that, but obviously it is technology dependent and we must bear in mind the other issues that we have here of course, which are to do with reliability, serviceability, costs and so forth. We must not lose sight of those other issues as well. 565 The President: Mr Shimmins. Final supplementary, Mrs Caine.
Mrs Caine: Thank you, Mr President. 570 I thank the Minister for undertaking to come back with more information on emissions and purchases, but those people who protested outside Tynwald last month and are going to do again this month, and the broad spectrum of public opinion on the Island, want action. This is somewhere that we should take action and we need leadership from the Department of Infrastructure. 575 So could we ask the Minister, if I am right in thinking the lifespan of a bus is about 10 years on the Island, would he put strenuous efforts into identifying if electric buses are not suitable for the more rural routes on the Island, whether hybrid or hydrogen powered or other options might mean that we have a mish-mash of different kinds of buses for the different kinds of services operated by Bus Vannin; and will he come back to Tynwald and give us the road map of 580 how he is going to work to zero emissions perhaps by 2030; what is the target for low or no emissions buses by 2030 within public transport?
The President: Reply, sir.
585 The Minister: Thank you, Mr President. What the Member talks about, that is the reason why we are trialling buses, that is the reason why we are trialling hybrid buses – to see if that is a way forward. I would imagine that we would have electric buses that would perhaps be in Douglas but a different type of bus elsewhere. But that is the whole purpose of why we are trialling buses. 590 I should point out that in the strategy last month we talked about 300 out of 1,000 or 30% are leading by example; that was not everything becoming electric. Bearing in mind that heavy vehicles are much more difficult to make electric because of their weight and there are other technologies such as hydrogen, electric may not be the full answer when it comes to those heavy vehicles. But we are dependent on technology. Technology is moving very fast and we will 595 develop as the technology develops.
The President: Hon. Members, we move on. Clearly some policy areas are of wide interest and lend themselves to debate through the format of a Private Member’s motion (Several Members: Hear, hear.) which is an option that is available and worth remembering, Members, 600 about, if it is an area of wide interest, (The Deputy Speaker: Absolutely.) and certainly with 15 supplementary questions, this was an area of wide interest. I do not intend on taking 15 supplementary questions in any other Questions this morning.
The Deputy Speaker: Hear, hear.
______1163 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
4. Peel Marina silt – Removal, storage and final deposit
The Hon. Member of the Council, Mr Crookall, to ask the Minister for Infrastructure:
If he will make a statement on the removal, storage and final deposit of the silt from Peel Marina?
605 The President: Question 4, Hon. Member of Council, Mr Crookall.
Mr Crookall: Thank you, Mr President. I would like to ask the Minister for Infrastructure if he will make a statement on the removal, storage and final deposit of the silt from Peel Marina? 610 The President: I call on the Minister for Infrastructure, Mr Harmer.
The Minister for Infrastructure (Mr Harmer): Thank you, Mr President. The dredging of Peel Marina is essential to allow the marina to remain operational. The River 615 Neb delivers approximately 3,000 tonnes of silt into the marina each year. The silt has accumulated over a number of years, resulting in approximately 30,000 tonnes needing to be removed in order to return the marina to the published chart water depths of 2.5 m. The Department has worked with colleagues within the Department of Environment, Fisheries and Agriculture (DEFA) over the last two years to develop an innovative scheme that 620 will provide wider environmental benefits within the River Neb catchment. The scheme will also allow the silt to be dewatered near the marina before its transportation to the former Cross Vein Mine to help remediate the land there. As some of the heavy metals found in the marina come from the Cross Vein Mine site, remediating the land will help to reduce the future problems in the marina, while improving the upland environment at the same 625 time. The Department has recently gained planning approval for the lagoon needed to dewater the silt and is progressing well with securing all the other licences and approvals required for the scheme and hopes to be able to confirm shortly when dredging will commence. The Department is also working with DEFA to progress the planning application for the work 630 at Cross Vein Mine as well as looking at the long-term solutions, such as reducing the volume of silt and heavy metals entering the marina each year.
The President: Supplementary, Mr Crookall.
635 Mr Crookall: Thank you, Mr President; and I thank the Minister for his Answer. So from what I can gather from that, we are about to start but we have not actually signed any contracts yet with the landowner or the contractor; and we have not got planning permission yet from DEFA, or licences from DEFA, eventually to get rid of the silt up to the Foxdale Mines, when we get round to that in a year or two. 640 Can the Minister confirm that he has not got any contracts signed yet, please? Also, can he confirm then, he said about 3,000 tonnes per annum: we have been talking recently about 4,000 tonnes, and when we talk about 44,000 tonnes which was the overall figure, this brings the figure down to about 30,000 tonnes he just said there, so that is a huge relief to lose basically 25% of what was supposed to be moved. 645 And can he confirm that there is still a plan to use the pipeline from the harbour up to the lagoon to move most of the silt there, please?
The President: Minister to reply. ______1164 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
The Minister: Thank you. 650 In terms of the work that is done, the planning approval has been for the lagoon in Peel but the planning for Cross Vein is obviously the next stage that needs to be done. No contracts have been signed; we are still working through the approvals. We do not have a date to this stage, but the timescales are very tight. So when that will happen, it may be that it will be much later in the year or early next year even in terms of gaining when we are able to do 655 that. So in terms of removing – the one compliant contractor would not remove by pipe, but would actually remove by lorry to the lagoon. As I say, we are still at an early stage and we are still going through the approvals process. So we have not actually signed anything at this point, but we have made steady progress. 660 The President: Deputy Speaker, Mr Robertshaw.
The Deputy Speaker: Thank you, Mr President. My question focuses on the Minister’s reference to dewatering. 665 If it is the case that the contaminants that collect in the silt over time presumably come downstream either as totally dissolved solids or suspended solids, is he able to explain or provide information to this Hon. Court about what percentage of these contaminants will actually be released from the lagoons as the dewatering process takes place back into the river? Presumably he has taken technical advice on this, and would he be able to provide that 670 technical advice in a circulated manner to Members after this sitting?
The President: Reply, sir.
The Minister: Yes, I will provide that advice. 675 The Deputy Speaker: Thank you.
The President: Hon. Member, Mr Crookall.
680 Mr Crookall: Thank you, Mr President. Can I just ask the Minister then, when they eventually get round to doing the works and with the amount of vehicles that are going to be used if they are not going to use a pipeline, I think if we work on … I mean, we were working on 45,000 tonnes coming out of the harbour which is equated to about 4,500 wagonloads, or 2,500 wagon loads going to the lagoon and 2,500 685 coming back, thereabouts, at 20 tonnes a wagon: will it necessitate the closing at all of any part of the Heritage Track to get to the lagoon? Also, when we get to part B or part 2 of the plan to stop the silt coming down the river, will the Minister undertake to talk to people that use the harbour, in and around the harbour – the people that have got a working knowledge of the harbour? They have been there 20 or 30 years, 690 some of these people, and they know exactly what happens in there to the tides, to the silt and what happens – they have got vast amounts of knowledge. And I include the harbour keepers there. But quite often we have got all these people with vast amounts of experience that never ever get asked for it. We go out to consultation, we ask people to come and do this work, when 695 actually we have got people around that can actually tell us exactly what needs doing and probably save an amount of money. Will the Minister commit to talk to those people, please?
The President: A lengthy supplementary. A short answer … 700 ______1165 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
The Minister: Yes. (Laughter)
The President: Final supplementary, Mr Crookall.
705 Mr Crookall: Sorry, Mr President, he did not commit, he did not answer with regard to the Heritage Track and would that require closing at all?
The Minister: I do not know, that will be within the planning. I do not have the detail but I will distribute that.
5. Housing allocation criteria – Removal of emergency housing requirement
The Hon. Member for Ramsey (Mr Hooper) to ask the Minister for Infrastructure:
Why it was decided to remove the emergency housing requirement as a discretionary criterion from the housing allocation criteria?
710 The President: Question 5, Hon. Member for Ramsey, Mr Hooper.
Mr Hooper: Thank you, Mr President. I would like to ask the Minister for Infrastructure why it was decided to remove the emergency housing requirement as a discretionary criterion from the housing allocation criteria? 715 The President: I call on the Minister for Infrastructure, Mr Harmer.
The Minister for Infrastructure (Mr Harmer): Mr President, the emergency housing points have not been removed and remain in the new access and eligibility criteria agreed by this Court 720 last month. They now form part of the higher award of points available for a range of health or welfare circumstances, which include emergency housing issues. The new criteria now have a maximum of 50 points available, compared to the 20 previously available.
The President: Supplementary, Mr Hooper. 725 Mr Hooper: Unfortunately, Mr President, the Minister is incorrect there. The original general needs housing criteria for acceptance onto the waiting list in the first instance included a discretionary ability to allow someone onto the list where they had an emergency housing requirement. That level of discretion has been removed; an individual now must meet all of the 730 criteria that exist within the new allocation policy that was approved by Tynwald. So the question goes back to the Minister, why did they remove this discretionary criteria from enabling people to get on to the waiting list where they have an emergency housing need? I would like an answer to the Question that was asked.
735 The Minister: Thank you. I am not aware of that. As I said, there are now more points, it is more discretionary, but I will distribute an answer to the Member.
The President: Mr Hooper. 740 Mr Hooper: Thank you, Mr President. ______1166 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
I am sure I must have misheard the Minister there. He said he is not aware of the change in policy that he brought to Tynwald last month and asked us to approve. Can the Minister just absolutely clarify that he was fully informed in that policy development, he was fully supportive 745 of elements in that policy, and he did fully understand the implications of the policy when he brought it to Tynwald. If he did, he should be able to answer this very straightforward question, why that policy decision was made?
The President: Mr Harmer. 750 The Minister: I do not have the same interpretation as the Hon. Member. There is still a discretionary emergency allocation and, as far as I am concerned, that is now much better than it was before and, as I said last month, it is much more based on need rather than just being on the list. 755 The President: Mr Hooper.
Mr Hooper: Thank you, Mr President. If the Minister is absolutely satisfied that the ability of someone to get onto the list in the first 760 instance – not points allocation here, Minister, the ability to get onto the waiting list, criteria for acceptance onto that waiting list – if he is absolutely convinced that the discretion exists in respect of emergency housing, can he please point to the section in the regulations that he brought to Tynwald last month that allows this to happen, because it is not there?
765 The President: Minister.
The Minister: Thank you. That is not my view, but I will happily distribute the regulations and that advice and I will provide that.
POLICY AND REFORM
6. BBC Isle of Man operation – Discussions
The Hon. Member for Garff (Mrs Caine) to ask the Minister for Policy and Reform:
What discussions (a) have taken place and (b) are planned with the BBC regarding increasing its Isle of Man operation?
The President: Question 6. Hon. Member for Garff, Mrs Caine. 770 Mrs Caine: Thank you, Mr President. I would like to ask the Minister for Policy and Reform what discussions (a) have taken place and (b) are planned with the BBC regarding increasing its Isle of Man operation?
775 The President: I call on the Minister for Policy and Reform, Mr Thomas.
The Minister for Policy and Reform (Mr Thomas): Thank you, Mr President, and to the Member for the Question. This Hon. Court approved the amended motion and the combined vote in the January sitting:
______1167 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
That the Council of Ministers should pursue negotiations with the British Broadcasting Corporation aimed at securing improved outcomes for the Isle of Man.
780 ‘Securing improved outcomes’ is different than the BBC ‘increasing its Isle of Man operation’ – the statement in the question. Mr President, the Council of Ministers fully intends to fulfil the obligation placed on it by this Tynwald resolution, but no specific formal discussions have yet taken place with the BBC.
785 The President: Supplementary, Mrs Caine.
Mrs Caine: Thank you, Mr President, and thank you, Minister, for that answer. Can I ask the Minister, does he believe the Isle of Man receives good value for money for its licence fee when compared with the BBC in Guernsey operation, for instance? And also, when 790 does he anticipate that discussions will take place between the Cabinet Office and the BBC?
The President: Minister to reply.
The Minister: I think the Council of Ministers does regard this as a very important matter and 795 I am sure they will mandate, with a negotiating objective, the people involved in taking these negotiations forward quite soon. Also, the question about the value from the TV licence fee and the question of the value of the BBC public service broadcast for us all, and also local public service broadcasting, are the sort of issues that will be inside those negotiations. At this stage, I do not want to prejudice the 800 negotiations. There are all sorts of ways that value can be measured and I look forward to entering into the negotiations with the BBC, and the debate with the Department of Culture, Media and Sport as well, to make sure that we can secure the outcome that Tynwald Court wants us to secure.
805 The President: Hon. Member for Council, Mrs Sharpe.
Mrs Sharpe: Thank you, Mr President. I would like to ask the Minister whether there will be an overall strategy for public service media coming before Tynwald in the future. 810 The President: Now, I do not want this widened into a full debate.
Mrs Sharpe: Of which the BBC forms part. (Laughter)
815 The President: We are on the BBC operation. Minister.
The Minister: Thank you very much, Mr President. The Hon. Member of Council will remember that the clear Tynwald resolution was in two parts. The first part is that Manx Radio returns to this Hon. Court with its strategy; and the 820 second part is that the Council of Ministers, in good faith, secures a good outcome from the television licence fee. Personally, I am sure at some point, when we have the energy and the time and when things have developed from both of those two motions, it would be helpful to have a public service broadcasting, indeed a broadcasting policy strategy and action plan. I am sure this Hon. Court 825 will work on the chance to discuss that at the appropriate time.
The Deputy Speaker: Hear, hear.
______1168 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
The President: Hon. Member, Mrs Caine. 830 Mrs Caine: Thank you, Mr President. I am just picking up on those couple of points, please, from the Minister. Can he confirm whether the Cabinet Office, along with having any discussions with the BBC and when that might happen in the near future, whether it is also planning any discussions with Manx Radio? 835 Seeing Manx Radio was charged under that amendment to the motion to come up with its own strategy for the future by October, is the plan that Manx Radio comes back in October with its strategy for the future and the funding just is not there to support their strategy? Will the Minister be undertaking discussions with Manx Radio to involve them in the devising of any strategy for public service media on the Island for the future, as well as the BBC? 840 The President: Minister to reply.
The Minister: Thank you, Mr President. That is a very helpful question. I am absolutely sure that the Treasury, Council of Ministers 845 will engage fully with Manx Radio as it prepares its motion for the Tynwald Court, its report for the Tynwald Court. Members and the public I am sure are aware that there have been changes at the top in Manx Radio and I think we have been waiting for the opportunity to get that dialogue in full with the new team. The second point I wanted to make is that all sorts of people involved in broadcasting in the 850 Isle of Man have made very helpful suggestions to me about how things should develop and also about how negotiations across should take place and, indeed, there is a lot of scepticism about the latter point around their broadcasting community. People keep offering me bets about what can be achieved and so on. The third point to make is that there are already existing, substantial connections between 855 public service broadcasting at Manx Radio and with the public service broadcaster across. That is all for the good. And that sort of connection should be encouraged. I am absolutely sure that the board, management and professionals who staff Manx Radio will be doing everything they can to maximise the value of those connections.
860 The President: Chief Minister, Mr Quayle.
The Chief Minister (Mr Quayle): Thank you, Mr President. Would the Hon. Member not agree with me that, whilst this topic may well be of great importance to us here, there is another topic beginning with ‘B’ which is taking the time of the 865 Westminster Parliament? I think there has to be a real realisation, would he not agree with me, that that will have to take precedence over this ‘B’ word?
The President: Mr Thomas.
870 The Minister: Exactly, Mr President, and I appreciate the Chief Minister’s reiteration of that point. As Hon. Members know, there are currently a number of pressing and priority issues arising from the UK’s departure from the European Union; our own preparations for the Constitution implications of that; also public registers; beneficial ownership – there are only so many resources and so many people that can be involved in all of this, and we need to get this 875 issue in its right place on the priority list.
The President: Hon. Member, Mrs Sharpe.
Mrs Sharpe: Thank you, Mr President.
______1169 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
880 I would like to ask the Minister whether the Council of Ministers will consider employing impartial expert media advice when drawing up any future strategy for public service media and where the BBC might fit into this. He mentioned that he is in negotiations with media companies on the Isle of Man, but of course quite rightly they all have their own interests at heart.
885 Mr Cretney: Hear, hear.
The President: Minister.
The Minister: Thank you very much, Mr President. 890 That is a very helpful question. I just want to confirm, we are not in any negotiations with any media outlets on the Island or in any formal discussions with any broadcasting professionals. But I have tended to find that broadcast professionals have strong views and they are very, very keen to share them. That is welcomed and that is very important. The point that the Hon. Member of Council makes is a good one, which is that Council of 895 Ministers, through the Communications Commission, through Cabinet Office, through Treasury, will need expert advice, I am absolutely sure. But one thing that has not been lacking in the last 40 or 50 years is independent, impartial advice about what we should be doing. Now, I think, we need to go right back to basics. We need to look at the Communications Act 2003 across, our Communications Bill. We need to start from that point. Then we need to build on it in terms of 900 the future of the TV licence and it is only at that stage when we have made some progress in terms of those grounds for negotiation that we can get to the technical aspects of broadcasting professionals. So, everything has its time. As the Chief Minister has said, the most important things these days beginning with ‘B’, have an ‘R’ after them, and then an ‘E’ after it, as well as an ‘O’. Before 905 we get to broadcasting we will sort out beneficial ownership and some of the other major international issues and, at that time, I am absolutely sure the focus on this will be intensive and I also believe it will be successful.
The President: Final supplementary, Mrs Caine. 910 Mrs Caine: Thank you, Mr President. I thank the Minister for his answer but could I could I just question him on what he feels would be the improved outcomes for the BBC service to the Isle of Man that he would like to see? And does he anticipate securing those improved outcomes within the term of this 915 administration?
The President: Minister.
The Minister: I will have a good go within the term of this administration, because this 920 Council of Ministers has got a mandate from this Hon. Court to secure better outcomes. And the outcomes, as I have said, start from looking at the Communications Act 2003 across and the Communications Bill, as it becomes an Act of this place and seeing whether we can go back and look at the very basics of TV licence fees. I do not want to go into the detail of that but that is in the paper that is being prepared for the Council Ministers at the moment.
______1170 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
7. Council of Ministers’ Single Legal Entity Sub-Committee – Report for debate in Tynwald
The Hon. Member of the Council, Mrs Lord-Brennan, to ask the Minister for Policy and Reform:
When a report from the Council of Ministers’ Single Legal Entity Sub-Committee will be produced for debate in Tynwald?
925 The President: Hon. Member of Council, Question 7, Mrs Lord-Brennan.
Mrs Lord-Brennan: Thank you, Mr. President. My Question for the Minister for Policy and Reform is when a report from the Council of Ministers’ Single Legal Entity Sub-Committee will be produced for debate in Tynwald? 930 The President: I call on the Minister to reply, Mr Thomas.
The Minister for Policy and Reform (Mr Thomas): Thank you, Mr President; and to the Hon. Member of Council for that helpful Question. 935 The Council of Ministers’ Single Legal Entity Sub-Committee produced an interim report which was laid before Tynwald in July 2017.
The President: Supplementary, Mrs Lord-Brennan.
940 Mrs Lord-Brennan: Thank you, Mr President. I do not believe that that report was subject to debate in Tynwald, so that was really where I was going with the Question.
The President: That is a statement rather than a question. 945 Mrs Lord-Brennan: When will it be debated?
The President: Minister.
950 The Minister: Thank you very much. I think that the interim report has been very helpful for so much that has happened in the last couple of years. That report is available for a Private Member’s motion – any aspect of it. Lots and lots has happened inside the incremental approach, the approach that was entitled ‘An Evolutionary Approach to the development of joined-up, better functioning public service’. 955 There is lots of success which has been picked up inside the Programme for Government reporting and I am pleased to answer any specific questions. But the simple facts, as the Hon. Member, Mr President, observed earlier on, is that the report was published in July 2017 and any aspect of it has been available for debate in this Hon. Court since then. 960 The President: Deputy Speaker, Mr Robertshaw.
The Deputy Speaker: Thank you, Mr President. I am unaware that the Sub-Committee of the Council of Ministers considering the single legal 965 entity has been shut down or closed. Could he confirm what the position is with regard to that Committee?
The President: Reply, sir. ______1171 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
The Minister: Thank you, Mr President; and that is a very helpful question from Mr Deputy 970 Speaker. No, the Committee still exists. It has not met. I think in 2017 the Committee seemed more important than it did now because events have overtaken us, inasmuch as profound developments, like the Sir Jonathan Michael Review in the Health Service, have drawn on so much that is in the report that we put together – the really valuable report we put together as 975 committee colleagues back in 2017. There have been developments triggered by some of the Tynwald Committees to do with criminal justice strategy; and modernisation to do with Vision Nine; and learning from that to do with the way that the Sub-Committees have worked. So much has happened: People Strategy; Digital Strategy; Smart Service Framework; the suggestion of Executive Agencies. All of that was sketched in the Single Legal Entity Interim 980 Report and so much of that has informed developments in Government for this Island – a financially responsible Government, over the last 18 months or two years or so. I do think it would be valuable for the Committee to meet again now. And, like I said before Christmas, I think it should meet now.
985 The President: Mrs Lord-Brennan.
Mrs Lord-Brennan: Thank you, Mr President. From my assessment, the happening of the Committee has come against the background of things that have happened really since 2006. When did the Committee last meet together? 990 The President: Reply, sir.
The Minister: Thank you. The last formal meeting was June 2017 and I believe we have only had one meeting since. 995 But the main point here is that this is not a Council of Ministers’ Sub-Committee that needs to be active. The action and the suggestions for incremental and evolutionary development of Government are going on and they are happening, and they will continue to go on. I think we can all be very proud of the achievements coming from that report around People Strategy, 1000 Digital Strategy, Smart Service Framework; the investigation into ways of organising Government; all the stuff from the Equality Act and from Data Protection that was considered in the report. The Government Departments Act (Amendment) Bill is in the Programme for Government legislative programme. We could look to have a more fundamental piece of legislation which is 1005 also provisionally outlined inside the Government Programme. Just because a committee is not meeting, it is not the end of the world. What matters in all of this is action. What matters in all of this is we break down the silos. What matters in all of this is we spend every pound of public money wisely on the best possible public service. That is happening and there are massive debates coming up. For instance, in May, with the Sir Jonathan 1010 Michael Report debate and the Public Accounts Committee Report; and other debates that will be coming up this summer and through to the autumn are absolutely crucial in the evolution of the Isle of Man Government and its relationship in fact with Tynwald Court.
The President: Supplementary, Miss August-Hanson. 1015 Miss August-Hanson: Thank you, Mr President. I just wanted to ask the Minister if he feels that these meetings are valuable, if they have not met quite so often as perhaps some in this Court might feel they should? And also, does he feel that progress is happening quickly enough, because I am sure that there are still some very 1020 serious issues regarding communications between Departments in various different areas? ______1172 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
The President: Reply, sir.
The Minister: Quite clearly there are issues that arise from time to time and they need to be dealt with. But let me just compare two situations about the work of committees. 1025 On the one hand we had a committee that considered Lord Lisvane’s regulations, and lured it into a cul-de-sac and slowly strangled those recommendations. On the other hand, we have got a committee that worked on the Single Legal Entity and actually put together a really good paper that is informing what has happened for the last couple of years and is actually delivering something worthwhile. And that is the main thing to say in this: committees are not necessarily 1030 the way to change the world; it is action and policy development that changes the world.
The President: Mr Deputy Speaker.
The Deputy Speaker: Thank you, Mr President. 1035 The Minister for Policy and Reform seemed keen to tell us this morning that all the questions have been very helpful. (Laughter) Can I commend the Minister on his complex answer to the Hon. Member of Council? And does that not itself suggest that it really would be helpful to draw all these thoughts together on the part of the Committee, perhaps soon after we hear in May Tynwald about Sir Jonathan Michael’s Report and the PAC Report? 1040 Do you not think it would be helpful soon after that for the Committee to sit and consider?
The President: Minister.
The Minister: Mr President, I would agree with those very helpful and – (Laughter) from the 1045 Deputy Speaker. (Interjection)
The President: Hon. Member, Mr Hooper.
Mr Hooper: Thank you very much, Mr President. 1050 The Minister seems very keen to highlight just how important this work was, as a bedrock for all the evolutionary change that is happening throughout Government. My first question for the Minister is: who is overseeing this joined-up approach to all this evolutionary change if the Committee is not meeting? Who is responsible for making sure that all these various projects and strategies are all tied together in a sensible and joined-up way? 1055 My second question for the Minister is: he has stated the main purpose of this work was to ensure we end up with a joined-up and better-functioning public service. Does he not feel that something that is of that importance really should be debated on the floor of this Hon. Court? And does he feel that really Government should be the ones driving that delivery, not a Private Member bringing a motion to debate what is essentially a Government reform project? 1060 Miss August-Hanson and another Member: Hear, hear.
The President: Reply, sir.
1065 The Minister: Thank you. The Council of Ministers is responsible for executive Government. Tynwald Court is responsible for major changes in policy and in its Branches for legislation. I think close attention to the interim report will lay out all of these things and I would think any neutral, impartial observer of the process in the last two years will see that the Council of Ministers has been 1070 changing itself in the way it operates to move towards taking on any silo interest whether it be from a local authority or from a Department, or from a vested interest in public policy terms.
______1173 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
So the Programme for Government which we own collectively and we will be discussing later today includes amendments this year, as it did last year, about one public service, about Single Legal Entity related-type concepts. 1075 We should have a debate. I am quite surprised sometimes that some of the debates did not come forward from Members to support things and to test the will for certain things, but I am absolutely sure we are going in the right direction. The Council of Ministers owns this policy; the Chief Minister leads the Council of Ministers and chairs the Council of Ministers; and watch that space. 1080 I think it is a very helpful suggestion to continue the work of the Committee in June with a view to having a debate later on this year.
The President: Right, let’s try not to be repetitive. We are all being extremely helpful to each other this morning – (Laughter) You could help me (A Member: Hear, hear.) by keeping the 1085 supplementaries short and not repetitive. Mrs Lord-Brennan.
Mrs Lord-Brennan: Thank you, Mr President. The interim report mentioned recommendations specifically to do with incremental reforms 1090 to legislation. The Programme for Government says: ‘Progress further incremental reforms to the machinery of Government’. These things are quite different, and given the statement about the interim report informing what has happened over the past two years, is it just the case that some of this stuff is just happening behind the scenes?
1095 The President: Minister.
The Minister: That is a good question. No, every time we change legislation it is in public, in the Branches. Every time we change major policies it is in public, in the Hon. Court. Yes, there have been differences in the way that legislation has been cast in the last couple of 1100 years. There has been increased reference to Council of Ministers making orders rather than Departments making orders and that sort of thing. There has also been a greater focus on the Council of Ministers’ Sub-Committees. The Council of Ministers’ Sub-Committees in the past have taken cross-Government policy initiatives, important ones on climate change and single-use plastics, or various parts of Social 1105 Care and Health which needed cross-Government views when working on joint procurement and joint commissioning on a major policy for early help, early intervention to improve the situation for young people at the moment. That has all happened and I like to think all that is happening in public because it is necessary for this Court to be taking on. Have we sat down and said, ‘Do we want the Single Legal Entity?’ No, we have not. But we 1110 also have not said no to working together more, to abolishing silos, to joining things up. And that is what has been happening successfully for the last couple of years. And it is not only in this interim report, it goes back to when we had our first Minister of Policy and Reform five years ago who talked about some of the things in that first interview, recorded by Manx television, about exactly what he wanted to achieve for the last five years. 1115 Very helpfully, I was watching that again. I think we can say we have achieved a lot of what was in the vision of Chris Robertshaw in 2014. And it goes back further to the Scope and Structure of Government Reports in 2006 and 2012. A lot of our interim reports – 1120 The President: I think, Minister, with respect, that you have answered the question – (Interjections)
______1174 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
The Minister: We are all doing very well, Mr President. (Interjection) 1125 The President: Miss August-Hanson, a supplementary, please.
Miss August-Hanson: Thank you, Mr President. I just wanted to ask the Minister, as he is in a good place to answer this Question, as he is on 1130 the Council of Ministers’ Legislative Sub-Committee: what level of progress, or whether he can perhaps provide any level of detail on the Government Departments Act (Amendment) Bill?
Mr Cretney: That is a helpful question.
1135 The President: I do not know how long you would require to answer?
The Minister: Very short.
The President: Short? Good. 1140 The Minister: A close observer of the interim report will see that we sketched what was needed to be in that Bill inside the interim report and that Bill is scheduled before the end of this administration.
1145 The President: Final supplementary, Mr Shimmins.
Mr Shimmins: Thank you, Mr President. The Minister for Policy and Reform assured us that this matter has not been languishing in a cul-de-sac, although it does feel that perhaps it has been shunted into a siding for a year or so. 1150 I did hear, though, that he said a debate would be helpful and he is going to shunt it out of the siding. When will this debate take place? Perhaps I could give him a choice to keep it brief – October or November this year? Which would suit him best?
The President: Reply. (Interjection) 1155 The Minister: I am sure Council of Ministers will discuss that when they conclude business for the autumn. But I think October or November would be a good time. (A Member: Both of them.) If not, earlier.
ENTERPRISE
8. Castle Rushen visitors – Year of Our Island closing festivities
The Hon. Member for Arbory, Castletown and Malew (Mr Moorhouse) to ask the Minister for Enterprise:
How many people visited Castle Rushen as part of the Year of Our Island closing festivities?
The President: Question 8. Hon. Member for Arbory, Castletown and Malew, Mr Moorhouse. 1160 Mr Moorhouse: Thank you, Mr President.
______1175 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
I would like to ask the Minister for Enterprise, how many people visited Castle Rushen as part of the Year of Our Island closing festivities?
1165 The President: I call on the Minister for Enterprise, Mr Skelly.
The Minister for Enterprise (Mr Skelly): Gura mie eu, Eaghtyrane. To be concise, 429 people visited Castle Rushen for the festivities of Year of Our Island.
1170 Mr Thomas: Hear, hear.
The President: Supplementary, Mr Moorhouse.
Mr Moorhouse: Thank you, Mr President and thank you, Minister, for that fantastic figure. 1175 Last month we were told that the daily average of people visiting the Manx Museum on a Sunday was 157 people. Given that 429 people visited Castle Rushen on one afternoon, would it be possible to look at more of these high profile, interesting events to be held in/around the castle in the coming months?
1180 Mr Crookall: It’s not the only one.
The President: Minister to reply.
The Minister: Gura mie eu. 1185 It was not just one afternoon; it was from 11 a.m. to 8 p.m. and yes, it was a great event. It was driven of course by my colleague in the Cabinet Office for the Year of Our Island closing festivities and I think it was a great celebration, well attended. But I think what the Hon. Member is talking about is special events and clearly we will want to encourage that. That does not have to be driven by central Government; that can be done by 1190 private sector, tourism interests and even Commissioners and others can actually combine to actually promote special events. But I would remind that Castle Rushen is one of several sites that Manx National Heritage owns.
1195 A Member: Hear, hear.
The President: Supplementary, Mr Moorhouse.
Mr Moorhouse: Thank you, Mr President and thank you, Minister. 1200 This initiative has not been identified as part of the Year of Our Island legacy projects. But does the Minister recognise, given the attractiveness of the event, would it be possible for Manx National Heritage to potentially take forward the Festival of Light and make it an annual event in the south of the Island?
1205 The President: Minister.
The Minister: Gura mie eu. I am not familiar with this particular initiative, the Festival of Light. However, I would strongly recommend that he writes to Manx National Heritage to consider that and the trustees will do 1210 so in due course.
______1176 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
9. High net worth individuals – DfE definition
The Hon. Member for Arbory, Castletown and Malew (Mr Moorhouse) to ask the Minister for Enterprise:
What definition his Department uses in classifying an individual as high net worth?
The President: Question 9, Hon. Member, Mr Moorhouse.
Mr Moorhouse: Thank you, Mr President. I would like to ask the Minister for Enterprise: what definition his Department uses in 1215 classifying an individual as high net worth?
The President: Minister to reply, Mr Skelly.
The Minister for Enterprise (Mr Skelly): Gura mie eu, Eaghtyrane. 1220 The term ‘high net worth individual’ is widely used across industry to classify an individual who has considerable liquid or investable assets. Whilst there is no prescribed level, it is generally accepted that such assets will exceed the equivalent of US$ 1 million. This definition is adopted by Capgemini in their World Wealth Report, the leading industry research publication on high net worth individuals. Therefore, while the Department does not use a specific 1225 definition, it follows globally recognised terminology in this area. Hon. Members will recall approving the Locate Isle of Man strategy at the February sitting of this Court. A key theme of the strategy was high value active entrepreneurs. The work around this theme emphasised the promotion of the Island as a destination for high net worth individuals who are seeking to actively invest as it represents the greatest economic benefit to 1230 the Island. It therefore remains an objective of the Department to continue to attract individuals with significant investable assets and encourage them to establish businesses and take investment decisions which will help the Island to remain a special place to live and work. Gura mie eu.
1235 The President: Supplementary question, Mr Moorhouse.
Mr Moorhouse: Thank you, Mr President, and thank you, Minister, for that detailed Answer. Is the Minister aware of how providers of professional services on Island have widely differing opinions on what should be identified as a high net worth individual, thus sending out a 1240 confused message to locals and people planning to move to the Island? As part of your first Answer you identified the million dollar figure; would that be one that would be seen as suitable for all local professional providers to use as a key indicator going forwards?
The President: Minister. 1245 The Minister: Gura mie eu. I am not aware of this confusion that the Hon. Member refers to. But what I would say is with regard to the Locate strategy, separated from the taxation strategy, we clearly want active high net worths and that is why we term it as high value active entrepreneurs, because many of the 1250 very successful businesses on this Island actually employ the vast majority of people here and we clearly want more of them. There is a separate question with regard to tax caps and taxation, but that is a very different matter.
______1177 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
EDUCATION, SPORT AND CULTURE
10. Home or Privately Educated Register – Ensuring GDPR compliance
The Hon. Member for Garff (Mrs Caine) to ask the Minister for Education, Sport and Culture:
What policies and procedures his Department has to ensure GDPR compliance in relation to the Home or Privately Educated Register ensuring that it is accurate, up-to-date, and kept no longer than is necessary?
The President: Question 10, Hon. Member for Garff, Mrs Caine.
1255 Mrs Caine: Thank you, Mr. President. I would like to ask the Minister for Education, Sport and Culture what policies and procedures his Department has to ensure GDPR compliance in relation to the Home or Privately Educated Register ensuring that it is accurate, up-to-date, and kept no longer than is necessary?
1260 The President: I call on the Minister for Education, Sport and Culture, Mr Cregeen.
The Minister for Education, Sport and Culture (Mr Cregeen): Thank you, Mr President. The Department does not have GDPR policies and procedures that relate specifically to Home and Private Education Registers. The Department seeks to ensure under its GDPR policies and 1265 procedures that data is only held for as long as is necessary and is used for the purpose it was collected for. The Education Act 2001 says that a parent must notify the Department in writing of the arrangements made for the child to receive education. The Department will update information as and when it is notified of any changes. Within the past month, a number of those who have 1270 chosen to home educate made contact with the Department to update their information. If parents decide to move their children from being home or privately educated to being educated in a school, the Department is not made aware of this because the Department does not operate a central database and the schools are data controllers in their own right. It is only possible for the Department to update its records if parents voluntarily inform us of the change. 1275 Furthermore, the Department has cause on occasions to write to parents who home or privately educate their children; most recently, regarding coins to commemorate the end of the First World War for those who home educate. A number of letters were returned to the Department with ‘Not at this address’ and using information previously provided to the Department we sought to contact those parents either by email or phone call. A number of 1280 those contacted updated their addresses; however, one family were no longer contactable in writing, by telephone or by email and it has subsequently been determined that they had moved off Island. Once a child is no longer of compulsory school age then the information is deleted from the spreadsheet, where information is held on a secure Government server. 1285 The President: Supplementary, Mrs Caine.
Mrs Caine: Thank you, Mr President; and thanks to the Minister for that Answer. I confess I am a little bit puzzled and I would like to ask for clarity. Is the Minister saying that 1290 some voluntary updating of the list of home educated and privately educated children has resulted in a change to the figure he gave to my Keys Question of 29th January this year, that state 141 children were listed as home educated?
______1178 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
But when the Department collects that figure does he not feel that, although not required to under the Education Act, it would be correct under GDPR for that to be updated so it is accurate 1295 and up to date and being kept for the purpose it was kept for; and that attempts should be made to update both of the registers to ensure that the accurate information is being maintained by the Department?
The President: Minister to reply. 1300 The Minister: Thank you, Mr President. We have had cause to contact home-educated parents in the past regarding issues and have come up with a not-so-positive response from us contacting them. We are complying with the legislation and one of the things that we have in the new Bill is to actually make sure that is done 1305 on a timely basis.
The President: Hon. Member, Mr Moorhouse.
Mr Moorhouse: Thank you, Mr President. 1310 With regard to the first Answer, how many students were affected by these address changes?
The President: Minister to reply.
1315 The Minister: Thank you, Mr President. There was a small number; I have not got the exact number.
The President: Final supplementary, Mrs Caine.
1320 Mrs Caine: Thank you, Mr President. The Minister has previously said there were 141 home-educated children on the list. Does he want to revise that figure? Home educators I speak to estimate the number is nearer half the figure of the Department; and in the Freedom of Information response publishing the draft instruction to the Education 1325 Bill, the DESC stated that in 2016-17 there were 45 children being home educated. How did the figure increase so much in three years? Surely alarm bells would ring and someone at the Department perhaps would feel it merited an update as required under GDPR.
The President: Minister. 1330 The Minister: Thank you, Mr President. The requirement is that families do notify us when they are going to home educate. The numbers will change because some parents will contact us on a more frequent basis, but some numbers have been … once they have registered with us they do not update us; but what we do 1335 is we take them off the register as soon as they leave compulsory education. Under the new proposals there will be a clearer definition of that.
ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND AGRICULTURE
11. Newly built domestic properties – Testing for air tightness
______1179 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
The Hon. Member for Garff (Mrs Caine) to ask the Minister for Environment, Food and Agriculture:
How many newly built domestic properties were assessed for air tightness in the past five years in compliance with building regulations; and what proportion that was of the total built?
The President: Question 11, Hon. Member for Garff, Mrs Caine.
Mrs Caine: Thank you, Mr President. 1340 I would like to ask the Minister for Environment, Food and Agriculture: how many newly built domestic properties were assessed for air tightness in the past five years in compliance with building regulations; and what proportion that was of the total built?
The President: I call on the Minister to reply, Mr Boot. 1345 The Minister for Environment, Food and Agriculture (Mr Boot): Thank you, Mr President. Air tightness is a consideration for all new buildings. New dwellings are either directly tested or their design detail is assessed under Regulation 24 and a checklist that sets out standards of fitting is completed for each plot and provided to the Building Control Department before a 1350 completion certificate is issued. Although testing for air tightness has taken place since the Building Control Regulations came into force in 2014 as part of the Building Control approval process, they have not been separately recorded until March 2017. Consequently, information prior to that date is not held except by reviewing manually each application. I can confirm that 91 tests have been recorded 1355 by the Department with nine more being tested in Onchan and Douglas from March 2017 to March 2019, totalling 100. House completions are recorded by the Cabinet Office as part of the residential land availability monitoring. The number of completions is determined by a combination of manually assessing Building Control applications and active monitoring of sites. This is done on a periodic 1360 basis. The latest figures indicate there were 1,195 units under construction or completed Island- wide between 1st July 2011 and 30th June 2018. If about 170 dwellings are completed each year, calculated from the average between 2011 and 2018, and approximately 50 are air tested each year, then air tight testing is undertaken on about 30% of new dwellings, albeit the remainder are approved under Regulation 24. 1365 I intend bringing forward proposals to amend the Building Control Regulations and the associated approved documents before the end of this parliamentary session. Those amendments, among other measures to reduce emissions from buildings, will introduce the requirement that all dwellings are air tightness tested.
1370 Two Members: Hear, hear.
The President: Supplementary, Mrs Caine.
Mrs Caine: Thank you, Mr President. 1375 I thank the Minister for his Answer and I am very pleased to hear that the amendments to building regulations will ensure that all dwellings are tested for air tightness. Is he aware, though, that we might have a bit of an issue with retrofitting or air testing needed on a large number of properties? He said that 30% of new dwellings were tested, but is he aware that many of those houses were not chosen at random, that the dwelling tested for air 1380 tightness is selected by the contractor and presumably has been given extra care in that
______1180 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
construction; even so, they often fail; the air tester then advises on remedial actions and retests and then if they pass they get the certificate? So in many cases Building Control might be unaware of the initial failure. It does make you wonder what condition the ones that are not tested were. Does the Minister feel that there is a 1385 need to encourage people to get their property air tested for the benefit of the environment and to reduce the emissions and indeed their heating bill for air testing, especially if it is under guarantee from the developer?
The President: Yes, I think you made your point. 1390 Minister.
The Minister: Thank you. All of the dwellings would have been constructed under approval under Regulation 24 and should comply. We are aware that there are deficiencies, hence we are mandating that all 1395 buildings in future will be air tightness tested. In our statistical analysis we found evidence of only two properties that needed retesting and there has been a combination of the developers and Building Control officers selecting buildings, but we are aware that that system could be manipulated and hence we are bringing it in for all dwellings. With regard to people who have bought dwellings recently, if they feel that they are not in 1400 compliance with Regulation 24 then that is a matter between them and the developer if the property is still under guarantee and maybe they should seek advice in that respect.
MANX UTILITIES AUTHORITY
12. Street lighting – Progress of switching to LED
The Hon. Member for Arbory, Castletown and Malew (Mr Moorhouse) to ask the Chairman of the Manx Utilities Authority:
What progress there has been with the switch to LED street lighting?
The President: Question 12, Hon. Member for Arbory, Castletown and Malew, Mr Moorhouse.
1405 Mr Moorhouse: Thank you, Mr President. I would like to ask the Chairman of the Manx Utilities Authority what progress has been made with the switch to LED street lighting?
The President: I call on the Chairman of the MUA, Dr Allinson. 1410 The Chairman of the Manx Utilities Authority (Dr Allinson): Thank you, Mr President. I want to thank the Hon. Member for his Question, but point out that Manx Utilities is not the sole authority with the responsibility for street lights on the Island and actually does not own any street lighting, except for those installed on our own premises. 1415 However, Manx Utilities has recognised that it has a major role to play in the transition to modern lighting infrastructure which supports initiatives to reduce emissions from burning fossil fuels. LED lighting typically reduces energy consumption by approximately 60% compared with that of a standard fitting. Manx Utilities offers a range of products including the innovative use
______1181 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
of lighting columns for electric vehicle charging, Wi-Fi hot spots, CCTV and other advanced smart 1420 technologies. Where contracts for the maintenance and upgrade of street lighting are in place with local authorities, then it is the norm that modern LED options are promoted when new or renewal schemes are proposed. This means that energy-intensive lamps are no longer offered in refurbishment works or new installations. 1425 Manx Utilities currently manages street lighting assets for 23 local authorities, Government Departments and private companies across the Island. This long-standing engagement with clients has primarily continued to use Manx Utilities employees’ in-depth knowledge and experience of operating and maintaining public lighting assets. Where a new housing development is being built, Manx Utilities always offers LED solutions 1430 allowing for the most effective design capability to achieve the required lighting levels in line with the relevant British standard. As you can imagine, there is a significant amount of street lighting installed throughout the Island and LED technology is relatively new in comparison to the legacy installations. Not including the authorities that manage their own street lighting, I can advise the LED street lights 1435 make up 16% of the installed infrastructure which Manx Utilities has a maintenance responsibility for. Thank you, Mr President.
The President: Supplementary, Mr Moorhouse. 1440 Mr Moorhouse: Thank you, Mr President; and thank you for that detailed Answer. The MUA does appear to recognise the importance of updating the street lighting and towards the end of your Answer went towards the maintenance of those LED lights. Several commissioners have raised concerns, though, that over the next five years there is going to be a 1445 noticeable increase in the cost of these contracts. Does the Chairman recognise this could potentially slow down the change from traditional street lighting to LED?
The President: Chairman to reply. 1450 The Chairman: Thank you, Mr President. I think the Hon. Member has possibly responded to concerns, rather than facts. If I can just state that the maintenance contracts, the cost of standard LED fitting in 2016-17 was £561 plus VAT; actually from 2019-20 the standard cost has reduced to £486 plus VAT – a 1455 14.3% reduction. The reason for this is that, across the world, people are moving to LED lights and so they are getting cheaper and more effective. Can I also – going slightly off the topic, Mr President – just maintain and remind the Hon. Member, and other Members of this House, that the Department of Environment, Food and Agriculture actually have an LED scheme for domestic consumers and have recently distributed 1460 132 bulbs to low-income households. And Hon. Members want to make sure that their constituents are aware of the number of energy efficiency schemes that are available from this Government to help people reduce costs by investing in the future.
The President: Hon. Member, Mr Cretney. 1465 Mr Cretney: Yes, could I ask the Chairman of the Manx Utilities Authority if he will make every effort to encourage local authorities to go down this route inasmuch as not only is it good for the environment but longer term clearly it is good for the ratepayers?
1470 The President: Dr Allinson. ______1182 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
The Chairman: Thank you, Mr President. Certainly I take on board that one of the aspects of LED lighting not only is energy efficiency but also light pollution. They are a lot more effective. Certainly I have been to the Municipal Association to give a presentation about the future of LED lighting and how it can help all 1475 people, including our environment.
The President: Mr Moorhouse.
Mr Moorhouse: Thank you, Mr President. 1480 Does the Chairman recognise that whilst there are huge environmental benefits to updating the street lights, because of choices made in the spacing of the traditional street lamps there can often be an impact on the safety of people?
The President: Chairman to reply. 1485 The Chairman: No. Again you are trying to create a similarity between the responsibility of local authorities to their constituents and the responsibility of Manx Utilities. We are always happy to actually advise local authorities of the best way of providing street lighting but at the end of the day it 1490 comes down to those local authorities to implement that.
13. Smart metering – Progress of introduction
The Hon. Member for Arbory, Castletown and Malew (Mr Moorhouse) to ask the Chairman of the Manx Utilities Authority:
What progress has been made towards the introduction of smart metering?
The President: Question 13, Mr Moorhouse.
Mr Moorhouse: Thank you, Mr President. I would like to ask the Chairman of the Manx Utilities Authority: what progress has been 1495 made towards the introduction of smart metering?
The President: I call on the Chairman to reply, Dr Allinson.
The Chairman of the Manx Utilities Authority (Dr Allinson): Thank you, Mr President. 1500 Following receipt of appropriate approvals of the advanced metering infrastructural smart metering project, Manx Utilities has entered into a contract with Trilliant Networks, a global provider of smart energy communication solutions. Subsequently, Manx Utilities took delivery of Trilliant’s hardware which is based on radio frequency technology and which will be deployed at numerous sites around the Island. 1505 Manx Utilities have progressed with radio based station site acquisitions ahead of installation and commissioning activities due to commence later this month. Currently, 14 of the 16 necessary sites have received the appropriate permissions to proceed. The roll out of smart meters represents an exciting and significant undertaking by Manx Utilities and forms a vital part of our plans to both enhance energy services and to build further resilience into the network in 1510 addition to supporting the Programme for Government and the requirement to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. ______1183 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
A Manx Utilities smart metering team is currently being established, who will be undertaking a proactive engagement and communications programme to ensure that all of our customers and stakeholders are kept properly informed. The first part of that engagement project will 1515 involve a full presentation to Hon. Members in July this year via a Tynwald briefing. Manx Utilities are currently meeting with representatives of leading international suppliers following the formal procurement process seeking suitable partners to provide specialist products and services. This includes energy electricity meters and advanced pre-payment systems and supportive software solutions. It is anticipated that Manx Utilities will enter into 1520 contracts with the successful companies in June this year.
The President: Supplementary, Mr Moorhouse.
Mr Moorhouse: Thank you, Mr President; and thank you for that detailed Answer. 1525 Domestic rates are currently under review. Does the Chairman view smart meters as providing the potential opportunity to charge for usage and so replacing water rates in the future?
The President: Chairman to reply. 1530 The Chairman: No.
The President: Further supplementary.
1535 Mr Moorhouse: Thank you, Mr President. Given that very brief response, would the Chairman look at the possibilities in the future? Is it a definite no going forward?
The President: Dr Allinson. 1540 The Chairman: Thank you, Mr President. The Hon. Member has obviously asked the question about electricity meters. The smart metering infrastructure will support a whole range of other applications in the future. If it was felt that water meters were to be brought in then the same infrastructure that we are using for 1545 electricity would be applicable to water meters.
The President: Final supplementary, Mr Moorhouse.
Mr Moorhouse: Thank you, Mr President. 1550 Does the Chairman still expect the 40,000 m to be installed in next 10 years at the cost previously outlined?
The President: Chairman to reply.
1555 The Chairman: Yes.
The President: Hon. Members, that brings us to the end of Questions for Oral Answer.
______1184 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
Questions for Written Answer
TREASURY
14. Benefits paid where otherwise harsh and oppressive – Number of cases, costs and monitoring
The Hon. Member for Rushen (Mr Speaker) to ask the Treasury Minister:
In how many cases, broken down by type, group or circumstance, benefits have been paid because it was deemed harsh and oppressive not to; what the total cost and duration were in each case; and how the Department monitors such cases?
The Minister for the Treasury (Mr Cannan): To be entitled to an income-related benefit a 1560 person must normally satisfy the Isle of Man residential condition prescribed in social security legislation. The income-related benefits are: Income Support, Employed Person’s Allowance and Income- Based Jobseeker’s Allowance. However, social security legislation also provides that where a person satisfies an 1565 adjudication officer that there is a special reason which would render that person’s disqualification from entitlement to an income-related benefit exceptionally harsh or oppressive, the person is to be regarded as satisfying that condition. Prior to February of this year details of cases where the Isle of Man residential condition was not satisfied were not routinely captured, nor monitored. 1570 Therefore, unless a clerical review of literally thousands of casefiles is undertaken, I am unable to provide figures relating to periods before then. As the Hon. Speaker is aware, we committed to recording and monitoring from February of this year all claims to income-related benefits where the claimant does not satisfy the Isle of Man residential condition. 1575 I can confirm that in February 2019 there were no such cases. I can further confirm that in March 2019 three claimants of income-related benefits did not satisfy the Isle of Man residential condition, and that in all three cases the adjudication officer determined there were special reasons which would have rendered the claimant’s disqualification from entitlement to benefit exceptionally harsh or oppressive. Each of these 1580 awards is ongoing and the current total weekly value of the awards is £463.48. Given the very low number of awards, I do not think it would be appropriate to provide any further details of these cases as it is possible that they could be associated with particular claimants, in which case we might inadvertently disclose personal data. We will continue to record and monitor claims for income-related benefits where the Isle of 1585 Man residential condition is not satisfied.
______1185 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
POLICY AND REFORM
15. Taylor review of modern working practices – Government implementation of recommendations
The Hon. Member for Rushen (Mr Speaker) to ask the Minister for Policy and Reform:
What plans the Government has to implement the recommendations made in the Taylor review of modern working practices; and whether the Government will commit, before the next Isle of Man General Election, to the implementation of all the recommendations into Manx law?
The Minister for Policy and Reform (Mr Thomas): Matthew Taylor, Chief Executive of the Royal Society of Arts, was commissioned by UK Prime Minister, Theresa May in October 2016 to conduct a review into modern employment practices in the UK. The 116-page report, Good work: The Taylor review of modern working practices was published on 11th July 2017. 1590 The Report made 53 recommendations. In February 2018 the government published Good work: a response to the Taylor Review of modern working practices. The Report stated that the Government accepted some recommendations whilst others required further consultation. To this end the Government simultaneously published four consultations on aspects of the Review ‘Employment Status Consultation’, ‘Consultation on agency workers recommendations’, 1595 ‘Consultation: Increasing transparency in the labour market’ and ‘Enforcement of employment rights’. In December 2018 the Government published the outcome of all of the consultations other than the consultation on employment status in the document Good work plan. This document included an updated response to the 53 recommendations in the Taylor Review. Over half of the recommendations (29) constitute employment law reforms, lead policy 1600 responsibility for which lies with DfE, while responsibility for other recommendations lies with other parts of that Department. Some recommendations would be matters for Treasury, some for DESC and some potentially for the Cabinet Office (including Economic Affairs Division) and at least one for DHSC. One matter dealt with in the Review is that of zero-hours contracts. In November 2018 the 1605 Chief Minister established a Committee, chaired by Minister Ashford to explore the prevalence and use of zero-hours contracts in the Island; explore any possible abuse in relation to these contracts; make recommendations for dealing with any abuse; and produce a report for submission to the Chief Minister. The Committee is aware of the Taylor Review of which zero- hours contracts forms but a small part but has not expanded its remit into other areas at this 1610 time. The Committee is presently concluding its review and is due to report to the Chief Minister this month. I am sure that Government and Tynwald will critically appraise each of the recommendations as to their applicability for the Island, and of course the Chief Minister’s Committee recommendations are important. Consultation and engagement will also be necessary as policy 1615 and legislation are developed. Therefore any commitment seems premature. In summary the Taylor Review is an important piece of work. One option may be that once the report on zero-hours contracts has been finalised members of the Chief Minister’s Committee be invited to turn their attention to the other issues covered by the Review with a view to reporting back to the Council of Ministers with an initial assessment as to whether it 1620 would be desirable to consult on some or all of the proposals. Consideration as to the resources which would be required to undertake this work – which I would expect to be extensive – could be given at that time.
______1186 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
HM ATTORNEY GENERAL
16. Conflicts of interest– Public appointments and business financial interests
The Hon. Member for Douglas East (Miss Bettison) to ask HM Attorney General:
If he will make a statement on the extent to which an individual may be conflicted in relation to accepting a public appointment, with specific reference to financial interest in a field of business?
The Attorney General: The extent to which an individual may be or become conflicted in either accepting or during their tenure as a public appointee will differ from one situation to the 1625 next. An appointee or potential appointee to a public service role must consider their own personal circumstance, the nature of the role and the specific items which they might be required to consider should they be appointed to the role. All public officer holders have a duty to give ongoing and proactive consideration to potential conflicts of interest and to bring them to the appropriate person’s attention so that the conflict can be resolved. 1630 There are a number of general observations which I can make by way of guidance, which I mention below. There are also various legislative provisions in respect of certain roles relating to the appointment of a public appointee where, because of the specific purpose/nature of the role, legislation sets out provisions disqualifying certain people from holding the relevant public 1635 office. (I mention, for example, s1(4) of the Road Transport Act 2001 which disqualified a person from acting with a financial interest to any business which involves delivery/carriage of passengers or goods, even if that financial connection is not the essence of the business). There are, therefore, occasionally statutory disqualifications which I need not detail. Absent a statutory disqualification, public servants (which will include any person accepting a 1640 public appointment) are required to conform to the Government Code, which was updated in February 2017 (https://hr.gov.im/media/1189/the-government-code-february-2017.pdf). They are thus required to ensure that any possible conflicts of interest are identified at an early stage and that appropriate action is taken to resolve them as detailed at paragraph 6.28 to 6.34 of the Government Code (see also the Code of Conduct for Public Servants and the link within it to the 1645 Staff Guidance Note on Conflict of Interests approved by the Council of Ministers April 2007 which also applies to certain public service roles. It is outside the scope of this Answer to endeavour to identify all the ways in which a conflict of interest might arise but, clearly, a relevant financial or other interest outside the Department, Board, Office or Committee where the public appointee works must be considered as possibly leading to real or apparent conflicts 1650 of interest. No one should use or give the appearance of using their public position to further public interests for themselves, their families or organisations in which they may have an interest. Any public appointee in my view needs to reflect on the following basic question:
Do they as the person, a member of their family or close friend have a personal financial interest which could benefit or may be perceived as benefiting any one or more of those persons including themselves, as a result of the role the appointee takes?
It is important to note that a ‘financial interest’ in this context will include any business or 1655 field of business which the role accepted by the appointee may benefit or be perceived to benefit. I can of course provide more specific legal advice to any particular appointing body should this be required or provide legal advice to an existing public office holder. However, a person
______1187 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
who is contemplating an application for public office and is not yet appointed will need to take 1660 their own private legal advice should they require it.
ENTERPRISE
17. Isle of Man Business Park and surroundings – DfE financial assistance
The Hon. Member for Arbory, Castletown and Malew (Mr Moorhouse) to ask the Minister for Enterprise:
How much direct financial assistance he gave in each of the last 10 years to companies which moved to the Isle of Man Business Park or to the area immediately surrounding it on or adjacent to the Cooil Road for locations (a) elsewhere in the Island; and (b) off the Island?
The Minister for Enterprise (Mr Skelly): The area in question comprises three industrial estates or parks, namely the Isle of Man Business Park, the adjoining Spring Valley Industrial Estate and the land to the south side of Cooil Road known as Eden Park. On these estates there are a mixture of business types including corporate headquarters, vehicle showrooms, service 1665 industry businesses, production businesses and some retail. The main Department scheme that has assisted businesses in these areas is the Financial Assistance Scheme (FAS). The scheme is primarily export focused and supports new businesses to set up and existing ones to develop and expand. A summary of the assistance provided to eligible businesses in the above areas under the FAS 1670 in the last 10 years is set out below:
The total assistance of £1,582,249 paid over the 10 years comprises grants to nine businesses. However, businesses may apply for assistance on an annual basis and therefore, some businesses received more than one grant over the 10 years. 1675 It should be noted that such grants are provided to businesses on the basis that the support will facilitate further economic growth in the Island. The vast majority of the above support is to existing businesses looking to invest and grow and includes building work, plant and machinery, training, marketing and software etc. Only one business in 2016-17 was helped to move to the
______1188 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
area from elsewhere on the Island and one business was helped in 2010-11 to move within the 1680 area to facilitate expansion. It is important to note that many new businesses have set up in the areas in question in the last 10 years. However, these businesses either are not eligible for assistance under the FAS or have chosen for whatever reason not to seek this form of financial support. Treasury has confirmed to the Department that it has not provided any direct financial 1685 assistance to businesses in these areas during the period in question. The Department also administers a range of smaller schemes for very small start-ups and to help existing businesses to be more efficient and effective. If the Hon. Member has any specific issue on which he would like further information then the Department’s officers would be happy to meet him at his convenience.
ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND AGRICULTURE
18. Swimming pools’ water quality – Frequency of testing
The Hon. Member for Douglas East (Miss Bettison) to ask the Minister for Environment, Food and Agriculture:
How frequently bacteriological water quality testing is required to be undertaken for swimming pools; how frequently each swimming pool has undertaken testing (a) by the operator and (b) by the Government laboratory; what additional water quality/compliance tests are required to be undertaken by swimming pool operators; and what guidelines the Department follows to ascertain appropriate levels to monitor against?
1690 The Minister for Environment, Food and Agriculture (Mr Boot): Every swimming pool operator is responsible for the health and safety of employees, pool users and other people on the premises. The Health and Safety at Work Act 1974 and regulations made under it, place general obligations on pool operators, including the requirement to assess risk. This assessment of risk should include the hazards associated with chemicals and harmful micro-organisms. 1695 Treatment of pool water is essential to ensure that employees and pool users are not exposed to risks of infection from contamination of the pool water by micro-organisms. (a) As regards testing by the operator, the frequency should be determined by the pool operator as part of their risk assessment. Chemicals that control bacteria are monitored daily by pool operators. To verify that the chemical dosing is working, it is recommended that pool water 1700 is tested each month to monitor for the presence of potentially harmful micro-organisms. More frequent sampling may be necessary if problems have been identified by the pool operator, or if the pool has a particularly heavy usage. The Department does not compile a record of all testing of swimming pool water undertaken by pool operators, but that information will be provided to Environmental Health Officers, 1705 should they have cause to request that information. (b) As regards testing by the Government Laboratory, testing of swimming pool water is done under contract for public and privately owned pools, the test results and the frequency of testing are confidential customer information. Investigations must be performed if raised bacteria levels persist and this will involve repeat testing. 1710 The Department does not routinely monitor pool water quality as the onus is on the pool operator. Samples would, however, be taken in the rare event of complaints being received. Officers of the Department follow guidance issued by the UK Health and Safety Executive (HSG 179 Managing health and safety in swimming pools) and technical notes on pool water ______1189 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
treatment contained within the Code of Practice on Swimming Pool Water issued by the Pool 1715 Water Treatment Advisory Group. The instructions which accompany the equipment used to test water on site are also adhered to. The levels of bacteria found in swimming pools samples are compared against target levels issued by the World Health Organisation and other Health Guidance documents. For certain organisms such as legionella and cryptosporidium the safe number is zero.
HEALTH AND SOCIAL CARE
19. Type 1 diabetes – Digital glucose monitors on prescription
The Hon. Member for Onchan (Mr Callister) to ask the Minister for Health and Social Care:
What plans his Department has to make digital glucose monitors available on prescription to Type 1 diabetes patients?
1720 The Minister for Health and Social Care (Mr Ashford): It is assumed the Question is referring to the Freestyle Libre flash glucose monitoring system which is not currently funded by the DHSC. The current position regarding provision of glucose monitors to diabetic patients in the Isle of Man is described below. Information is also provided on the project to develop an integrated pathway for prevention and treatment of diabetes, within which funding for 1725 Freestyle Libremonitors in line with the NHS England agreed criteria is being considered.
Technical information: Most patients who need to monitor their blood glucose levels do so using standard monitors which are provided to DHSC free of charge from the manufacturer. Patients monitor their blood 1730 glucose by pricking their fingers and placing a blood drop on a test strip which is then inserted into the monitor to give a blood glucose reading. The test strips are obtained on an NHS prescription. This type of monitor provides a ‘snapshot’ of the patient’s glucose level at the time of the finger prick test. Continuous glucose monitors (CGM) are small devices worn just under the skin, which 1735 measure a patient’s glucose (sugar) levels continuously throughout the day and night, letting them see trends for example their ‘highs and lows.’ A key benefit of these is that they have an alarm to alert the patient and/or their care giver to a high or low blood sugar reading. The DHSC does not currently fund continuous glucose monitors (CGM). The Freestyle Libre flash technology glucose system is based on a small device worn on the 1740 surface of the skin which measures glucose levels when the patient scans a handset across the sensor. This allows them to see trends but does not include the alarm/alert function found in many CGMs. The Freestyle Libre system reduces the number of finger prick tests the patient needs to do (although it does not remove the need for them entirely). It is more affordable than many of the other continuous glucose monitoring systems. 1745 Current situation in England and DHSC development plans for IOM: NHS England has agreed funding criteria for patients to access the Freestyle Libre system from the 1st April 2019. Not all patients with Type 1 diabetes require or would benefit from Freestyle Libre and this is reflected in the guidance (available here: 1750 https://www.diabetes.org.uk/resources-s3/2017- 09/1190_Flash%20glucose%20monitoring%20guideline_SB_V9%5B4%5D.pdf). Briefly, patients with Type 1 diabetes (adults and children) who require intensive insulin therapy are eligible for ______1190 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
Freestyle Libre provided they or their carers have a good knowledge of and understand how to manage their diabetes. Patients must demonstrate that they can, and do, use the system to 1755 manage their diabetes actively and make progress towards meeting their personal treatment target. The system may also be useful in some patients for short term use to troubleshoot reasons why a patient may be having difficulty managing their diabetes and meeting targets. Patients who have lost awareness of hypoglycaemia (because they no longer experience symptoms if their blood glucose drops) are not suitable for Freestyle Libre and, instead, require 1760 a CGM with an alarm system. There are currently a number of patients (both adults and children) on the Island who are self-funding glucose monitors of various makes. In addition, the Manx Diabetic Group has provided funding for patients aged 16 or younger to have either Freestyle Libre or a CGM. There are 400 adults and 49 children with Type 1 diabetes as of November 2018 on island. 1765 Not all patients would meet the criteria for a Freestyle Libre and of those that do, not all may wish to avail of the technology. The DHSC is currently undertaking a large project to develop a diabetes prevention and care pathway. The pathway will aim to ensure best clinical practice is in place for all patients with diabetes on the island. The evidence for clinical and cost effectiveness of CGMs or Freestyle 1770 Libre for selected patients meeting the specified clinical criteria is good. DHSC is therefore committed to working towards the provision of these monitors in line with NHS England provision, subject to prioritisation against all other calls on DHSC resources.
20. International Conference on Integrated Care – Attendance by DHSC post holders
The Hon. Member for Rushen (Mr Speaker) to ask the Minister for Health and Social Care:
Which post holders will be attending the International Conference on Integrated Care; how long they will be going for; what the anticipated cost is; what examples of success they expect to be able to share with the Conference; and what they hope to learn for the benefit of the Island?
The Minister for Health and Social Care (Mr Ashford): Three officers from the Department of Health and Social Care attended the 19th International Conference of Integrated Care in San 1775 Sebastian, Spain, which was held from 1st to 3rd April. The officers were: the Deputy Chief Executive and Executive Director, Health and Care; the Director of Community Care; and, a representative for the Integrated Care Pilot Project. A special interest group on small island health and care systems was launched at the conference: with the Isle of Man agreeing to be one of its lead jurisdictions. A planning day in 1780 preparation for this launch was held on Sunday 31st March, and was attended by all three of the officers. In addition, a satellite workshop held by a special interest group on compassionate care was held on Thursday 4th April: again, attended by all three of the officers. In summary, attendance by the DHSC officers included five working days, one of which was a 1785 Sunday. The aggregate cost of conference attendance, flights and accommodation was £6,395. The Deputy Chief Executive co-chaired one of the conference sessions, titled, ‘Integrated Care in a Small Island Community’: and the other DHSC officers gave a presentation on the commencement of the integrated care pilot project. The launch of the special interest group on 1790 small island health and care systems was a success, and a number of jurisdictions have joined it immediately. ______1191 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
Quoting from the conference material:
With the overarching theme ‘Evaluating and implement models of integrated people-centred services’, the conference ... will bring together researchers, clinicians and managers from around the world who are engaged in the design and delivery of integrated health and social care.
The benefits for the Isle of Man are that DHSC leaders have learned from experts more about integrated care approaches in different countries and regions and gained an understanding both 1795 of success factors and difficulties in delivering integrated care.
21. Integrated care – Target operating model and business case
The Hon. Member for Rushen (Mr Speaker) to ask the Minister for Health and Social Care:
When he will publish the target operating model for integrated care, specifying the costs, timings and business case?
The Minister for Health and Social Care (Mr Ashford): A target operating model is the desired future state that an organisation is working towards. In brief terms, the Department of Health and Social Care has said that integrated health and social care services should support people to be well, independent and in control of their own 1800 care: and that those services should be provided at home, in the community or in primary care, unless there is a good reason for not doing. Integrated care can also be considered to be an overarching principle, through which the Department will seek to improve the care received by people in the Isle of Man and their experience of that care based on better co-ordination, the removal of barriers between different 1805 services and the introduction of defined pathways of care. In both cases, more authorities will be involved than the Department alone. A pilot of integrated community care will be conducted in the West of the Island, and its results will be used to assist in developing our approach for the whole of the Isle of Man. The pilot aims to implement 42 recommendations arising from initial planning work, over a period of 1810 six to 24 months. It should be noted in addition that in Sir Jonathan Michael’s progress report of his independent review which was presented to Tynwald in January 2019, he repeated the questions that he is trying to answer, including: ‘Is the current service model for the delivery of health and social care to the Isle of Man population optimal now and for the future?’ 1815 In summary, the target operating model for integrated care is yet to be finalised. Similarly, the timescale for delivering it, the associated costs and relevant business cases are contingent on the matters set out earlier in this answer.
22. Abortion Reform Act 2019 implementation – DHSC divisional budget allocations
The Hon. Member for Ramsey (Mr Hooper) to ask the Minister for Health and Social Care:
Further to Written Answer 5 on 26th March, which relevant divisional budgets contained the initial sums for the services provided for under the legislation when it comes into force and how much was allocated to each divisional budget for the 2019-20 year? ______1192 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
The Minister for Health and Social Care (Mr Ashford): As stated in the Answer of 26th March budgets for individual care services are held at a divisional level and each individual aspect of 1820 care delivered by a division does not have its own unique budget. Our current plan is for medical abortion termination services to be delivered by the Women and Children’s division at Noble’s and our Tertiary Care division. The Women and Children’s division current budget allocation for 2019-20 is £11.3 million. The Tertiary Care division’s current budget allocation for 2019-20 is £19.3 million. 1825 Some community services may be delivered by the Community Wellbeing service and the current divisional budget(s) for 2019-20 is £1.0 million.
23. Abortion Reform Act 2019 implementation – DHSC divisional funding process
The Hon. Member for Ramsey (Mr Hooper) to ask the Minister for Health and Social Care:
Further to Written Answer 5 on 26th March, what the funding process will be if a Division needs to spend more than the sum allocated in the budget to comply with the legislation before data is obtained and a specific business case submitted to Treasury for approval of additional funding?
The Minister for Health and Social Care (Mr Ashford): The Department will monitor its likely outturn against overall budget as usual throughout the financial year. The Department would seek to prioritise expenditure to meet the demands placed upon it. 1830 Should it be unable to accommodate the cost increase related to the new services within its approved budget, then the option exists to approach Treasury to seek additional funding in accordance with the relevant provision of the Abortion Reform Act.
INFRASTRUCTURE
24. Bus Vannin buses – Annual fuel costs and mileage; operational life; electric buses
The Hon. Member for Garff (Mrs Caine) to ask the Minister for Infrastructure:
What the average annual fuel cost and the average annual mileage of Bus Vannin buses are; what the current average operational life of a bus is; and if he will estimate the comparative estimated annual cost of operating an electric bus?
The Minister for Infrastructure (Mr Harmer): The average annual fuel cost for Bus Vannin vehicles is just over £1.4 million. The average annual number of miles run by Bus Vannin is 1835 2,500,000 miles. The operational life of a bus depends on the environment that it is used in. In the case of the Isle of Man, we have reduced the number of buses from 90 to 68 but now run each individual bus much harder. The Department’s business case, which was endorsed by the SAVE report produced by independent experts, promotes a first life with us of between 8 and 10 years. At 1840 this point maintenance costs far exceed the depreciation of a new bus. The manufacturer’s warranty on the frame of the bus varies from between 8 and 12 years and with relatively light use, the operational life is 15 years. This of course a reduction over buses of 25 years ago and is ______1193 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
mainly driven by obsolescence and reliability issues in the electronics which control key items such as engine management, exhaust gases and suspension. Our double decker buses do less 1845 mileage than single decks and we estimate their life at 10 years. Those purchased in 2009 we will start to replace over the next two years and their reliability for these reasons has fallen significantly in the last 12 months which endorses the Department’s policy as being carefully researched and correct. Electric bus technology is still developing and the examples that are currently in service are 1850 mainly in urban areas, travelling at relatively slow speeds. One of our manufacturers has started production of electric buses this year and they estimate that the earliest they expect to be able to provide a vehicle for a trial on Island is at the end of 2021. Therefore at this stage we cannot estimate accurately the operating cost of an electric bus as there isn’t one available for us to evaluate. Just taking the increased capital cost, the increase in the number of buses required 1855 and therefore increased garaging and maintenance is something that we will have to wait a little longer to know the answer to and be able to evaluate the situation properly. The Department has also reviewed opportunity charging to reduce the need for recharging batteries but the infrastructure costs are expensive and reliability of services poor. The Department has already a full understanding of the annual costs of operating the buses. 1860 This information will be used as the basis of comparing the operating costs for electric buses during the trial period.
25. Damage to Government property – Insurance claims in last five years
The Hon. Member of the Council, Mr Crookall, to ask the Minister for Infrastructure:
How many times his Department has made a claim for damage done to Government property in each of the last five years?
The Minister for Infrastructure (Mr Harmer):
2015 13 claims (1 for damage to a traffic signal pole, 11 for damage to buses and 1 for damage to 1865 railway infrastructure).
2016 14 claims (1 for damage to a traffic signal pole, 1 for damage to an automated card reader for bollards, 10 for damage to buses, 1 for damage to rail infrastructure and 1 for damage to a 1870 Government building.
2017 31 claims (1 for damage to a traffic signal pole, 26 for damage to buses, 1 for damage to a bus shelter and 3 for damage to rail infrastructure. 1875 2018 24 claims (3 for damage to traffic signal poles, 1 for damage to traffic signal controls, 1 for damage to an electrical supply cabinet, 18 for damage to buses and 1 for damage to rail infrastructure. 1880 2019 2 claims – ( 2 for damage to buses).
______1194 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
26. Public sector housing criteria – Number of times varied or waived in last five years
The Hon. Member for Ramsey (Mr Hooper) to ask the Minister for Infrastructure:
How many instances there have been where either of the residential criteria listed in parts 2(1) and 2(2) of the public sector housing criteria approved in January 2002 were varied or waived in respect of an applicant in the last five years?
The Minister for Infrastructure (Mr Harmer): Data on instances of variation are not recorded by the Department. 1885 The 2002 public sector housing criteria are used across public sector housing providers. Local Housing Authorities are expected to adhere to the common criteria for housing; however the Department is not privy to every decision and allocation made by each provider as this is a matter for their boards and clerks. Local Housing Authorities will be expected to adhere to the new criteria as a statutory instrument from June 2019 and may be subject to periodic review in 1890 line with the Local Government Act.
27. Public sector housing criteria – Applicants accepted without meeting relevant criteria
The Hon. Member for Ramsey (Mr Hooper) to ask the Minister for Infrastructure:
How many instances there have been where an applicant has been accepted onto a housing waiting list without meeting all of the relevant criteria listed in the public sector housing criteria approved in January 2002 in the last five years?
The Minister for Infrastructure (Mr Harmer): The Department does not hold this data. The 2002 public sector housing criteria is used across public sector housing providers. Local Housing Authorities are expected to adhere to the common criteria for housing, however the Department is not privy to every decision and allocation made by each provider as this is a 1895 matter for their boards and clerks. Local Housing Authorities will be expected to adhere to the new criteria as a statutory instrument from June 2019. In terms of the Department’s housing stock, which is in most areas of the Island, the criterion which has been waived on occasion is the local residency criterion of five years. This has occurred in cases where there have been significant health or welfare needs.
______1195 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
28. Public Sector Housing (General Needs) (Allocation) Policy 2019 – Definition of allocation; relevant properties
The Hon. Member for Ramsey (Mr Hooper) to ask the Minister for Infrastructure:
How the Department define allocation in the context of the Public Sector Housing (General Needs) (Allocation) Policy 2019 and to which properties the policy applies?
1900 The Minister for Infrastructure (Mr Harmer): The Public Sector Housing (General Needs) (Allocation) Policy 2019 identifies allocation as the selection of an eligible applicant from the housing waiting list who has the highest number of points for the type of housing available. This is subject to the property type being suitable for the applicant’s specific housing needs. The policy applies to all general needs public sector housing on the initial allocation from the 1905 housing waiting list.
______1196 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
Order of the Day
3. Planning Policy – Statement by the Minister for Policy and Reform
The President: We turn to Item 3 on our Order Paper, Planning Policy: Statement by the Minister for Policy and Reform. I call on the Hon. Member, Mr Thomas.
The Minister for Policy and Reform (Mr Thomas): Thank you, Mr President. 1910 In the March sitting of Tynwald, I committed to make a more detailed statement in this Hon. Court on Planning. I would like to focus now on some key points. In terms of the appointment of a planning inspector for the Eastern Area Plan, in accordance with Schedule 1 of the Town and Country Planning Act 1999:
The inquiry shall be conducted by a person or persons appointed by the Governor for the purpose;
A candidate who is fully aware of and experienced in the Island’s planning system and 1915 context has been identified. The Cabinet Office will assist the independent inspector in the coming months, responding to any requests so that a meticulous and thorough inquiry can be prepared and then run. The independent inspector is required to prepare a report which will be published as soon as practicable after receipt. The drafting and completion of the report is in the hands of the inspector and clearly 1920 influenced by the length and complexity of the inquiry. The dates for such will be published by way of Public Notice and other publicity in mid-May, I expect; but based on a pre-inquiry meeting in mid-July and an inquiry starting the week commencing 9th September 2019 for three weeks, we would expect a report to be received around six to eight weeks from the end of the inquiry, that is by the end of November 2019. 1925 To move on to Population and Housing figures: the Isle of Man Strategic Plan 2016 outlines a commitment to ‘Plan, Monitor and Manage’ the provision of housing, in particular the amount of land needed to be allocated for housing in area plans. This includes the ability to modify the release of land for development through appropriate phasing in line with the methods set out in area plans. I think we would all agree that we need to have a responsive area plan system in 1930 which we can all place our trust. The Cabinet Office is committed to evidence-based planning and the papers published last year alongside the Written Statement and Maps for the East Plan will be revisited and updated where appropriate. These will sit alongside new evidence papers and supporting information produced in response to the consultation. Importantly, this will enable the Department to set 1935 out a clear and up-to-date position on a number of matters, including population, and their effect on the Island Development Plan and ongoing production thereof. We move to the methods to release land for development: previous local and area plans have included development briefs. The intention is to publish such briefs for the East Plan in time for, and to allow discussion at, the inquiry. Development briefs are a useful tool to address 1940 phasing of land release, specific on-site matters such as layout, access and design. They seek to respond to known, but surmountable constraints; prescribed advice from key stakeholders; the need for proper master-planning; integration of affordable homes; and other essentials to satisfy best practice in development and planning for our urban and rural environments. Development briefs will be part of the plan format going into inquiry and I believe they have 1945 proved successful in smoothing routes through the planning application stages to actual delivery on the ground thereafter.
______1197 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
Finally, in terms of the Area Plan for the North and West, a Programme for Government commitment, I can confirm that the intention is to look at the area of the north and west together. There is reason to be positive about the progress of the Eastern Area Plan over the 1950 next six months. As this gathers pace, it is my intention to launch early work on the Area Plan for the North and West. An extended call for sites – and I envisage this to last around six months – is scheduled to begin on 31st May 2019. Thank you, Hon. Members, for the opportunity to make this Statement.
1955 The President: Hon. Members, questions are permitted on the Statement. Mr Cretney.
Mr Cretney: Yes. Could the Minister tell us who the appointed person is?
1960 The President: Minister.
The Minister: The candidate has been identified. I think the Lieutenant Governor will be in a position to make advice as soon as he can.
1965 The President: Hon. Member for Middle, Mr Shimmins.
Mr Shimmins: Thank you, Mr. President. I welcome the Statement and the commitment therein to evidence-based planning and to look at the population situation. It is now clear that we are some way adrift from the population 1970 projections which feed into the Strategic Plan and the Eastern Area Plan. When will the Minister reset the dial to reflect reality?
The President: Reply, sir.
1975 The Minister: It is an important part of planning that we plan, monitor and manage as I made very clear in the Statement; and in the run-up to the area plan for the process, following the statutory situation, we will be providing updated evidence papers and new evidence papers, as I outlined in my Statement. One of those will deal with the population issue.
1980 The President: Hon. Member from Onchan, Mr Callister.
Mr Callister: Thank you, Mr President. I was wondering if I could ask the Minister just to give me an overview, because I have not been involved in any public inquiry before, in respect of how the planning inspector actually calls 1985 witnesses? Are there any witnesses that are automatically guaranteed to sit in front of the inspector, or is it purely down to them personally to actually pick who they may or may not take evidence from?
The President: Minister to reply. 1990 The Minister: Thank you, Mr President; that is a very good, helpful question. (A Member: Again!) It is ultimately for the independent inspector how the inquiry is run. It is not always the case that we have a pre-inquiry meeting, but I would like to think we would have one and I believe it 1995 is quite likely that we will have one, and one is being discussed with the candidate. This would be an open invitation to hear a short hearing led by the inspector in matters of process and scope; and, I believe, at that time it will become clear who wants to have inquiry time to give verbal, oral evidence alongside written submissions that they have made, perhaps ______1198 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
adding to them by the request to the inspector before it comes. And at that point the duration 2000 of the inquiry and the nature of the inquiry and the scheduling of this sort of thing will be determined by the independent inspector.
The President: Hon. Member, Mr Shimmins.
2005 Mr Shimmins: Thank you, Mr President. We know that household sizes are getting smaller and there are a number of reasons for that, yet the Cabinet Office projections have increased the average size of each housing unit. Why is this? And who made this decision?
2010 The President: Minister.
The Minister: Thank you very much. There will be an updated evidence paper reflective of household size. And I really appreciate all of the submissions by all of the armchair statisticians, professional statisticians around the 2015 Island, who have been very helpfully submitting evidence in respect of household size. There are all sorts of dimensions to this to do with the demography and how it is developed; to do with the future of housing; and, as I said, we will be submitting a revised and perhaps even a new evidence paper as will the Department of Infrastructure, to the Area Plan for the East Inquiry.
2020 The President: Hon. Member of Council, Mrs Poole-Wilson.
Mrs Poole-Wilson: Thank you, Mr President. Just really to build on that, can I ask the Minister in bringing forward new evidence papers, is it the intention to not only look at the demographics but to look at what types of housing – not 2025 only in terms of size, but the different types of housing that will be needed to address our population now and in the future; and where those types of housing might be best situated in order that we can best provide services for the different needs of our population?
The President: Mr Thomas. 2030 The Minister: Thank you, Mr President. It is a good question, but that is what planning is all about. Ultimately, the independent inspector decides what form the inquiry has and what evidence is called from the Department of Infrastructure, the Cabinet Office and other people. 2035 These questions might well be the ones that the independent inspector seeks further clarification on and further information on. But I can certainly assure you that the Cabinet Office is expecting that the independent inspector will be commenting on the allocation of land in different places – one line of questioning; and also the types of housing and the nature of housing inside those different types. That is exactly what planning is all about; it is such an 2040 important process. Humblest apologies that it takes so long, but it is absolutely vital that we get the Area Plan for the East right, because that is where so many people live and even more people come to work every day.
2045 The President: Mrs Caine.
Mrs Caine: Thank you, Mr President. Could I ask the Minister to clarify the purpose and implementation of development briefs? These are a useful tool to address the phasing of land release. Who determines which pieces of 2050 land are phased land release for development matters? And if they are to be released or ______1199 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
published in time for the inquiry, how would the public have chance to express their opinion on where these phased land releases would be? Would the phasing of the land release for that also be influenced by the need for development? So would land be held back and not permitted for development and detailed 2055 plans unless the population size increased?
The President: Minister to reply.
The Minister: Thank you, Mr President; and I want to thank the House of Keys downstairs for 2060 its careful attention to planning law as the Bill goes through – the Legislative Council has got that pleasure in coming months. Knowledge of planning law is extensive and substantial in this Hon. Court and Hon. Members will remember that ultimately it is Tynwald Court that will approve the Area Plan for the East on a proposal to it from the Cabinet Office. So, ultimately, it will be all of us who approve the Area 2065 Plan for the East – subject then only to potential legal challenge for six weeks thereafter. This is a public inquiry that is coming up. We had several stages along the way where the public gave some evidence – I think we have had 600 or 700 different pieces of evidence submitted to us along the way. That is why it is taking the time, we need to apply the right resource, the right attention, the right expertise to that analysis; and there is still plenty of 2070 opportunity for formal submissions. Those people at the public inquiry will also be able to give oral evidence and answer questions if asked by the independent inspector. So, very good process planning, it is going to work; and in two or three years we will have the whole of the Island zoned properly, and strategic policy will be sufficiently flexible through things like national policy directives to be able to respond to changing economic and 2075 demographic and other considerations, and then we will all be richer because of it.
The President: Hon. Member, Mr Callister.
Mr Callister: Yes, thank you, Mr President. 2080 Can I ask the Minister when the pre-meeting will be held? Can I also ask the Minister, who actually decided to hold this Inquiry in September? As MHKs, we are encouraged to take holidays during August and September and personally – I will say personally – after spending several weeks to submit a very detailed submission on behalf of my Onchan constituents for this inquiry, I suddenly find that the inquiry is being held 2085 right, bang in the middle of my holiday. (Laughter) And I have to say okay, okay, the Minister … It might be done, but let’s be fair here, Mr President. This public inquiry was meant to be held in March. It was then delayed to June and July and now I am being told that it is going to be held in September, and I certainly want to stand in front of this Planning Inspector in order to verbally submit the evidence I have already submitted 2090 in writing. I think somebody should explain to Members, when we are encouraged to take holidays only in August and September, why the Minister has decided to put this right, bang at the beginning of September?
The President: It is a matter for Members when they take their holidays. (A Member: Hear, 2095 hear.) (Laughter) The formal sittings may be in recess but very few Members are necessarily on holiday. (A Member: Absolutely!) Minister to reply.
The Minister: Thank you. 2100 I gave the indicative dates in the original answer and Members have that Statement in front of them. Ultimately, it is for the independent inspector to choose how the inquiry takes place and the timing of the inquiry. But it was also a very specific question, so I will give a very specific ______1200 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
answer: this Hon. Court set this date in the Programme for Government, in that we have an action to complete the Area Plan for the East by December 2019. 2105 We have been up against it for various reasons. The Chief Minister announced in his initial Programme for Government statement that planning reform was essential, and planning reform puts an area plan process to completion. We are going to deliver according to that part of the Programme for Government. Apologies to the Hon. Member for Onchan in terms of the holidays but, as I announced, our 2110 current process is to ask the independent inspector to think about starting on 9th September. That date is still subject to negotiation and planning, and that is the sort of thing that will be discussed at the pre-inquiry meeting which will be held according to the timetable I have already given in my Statement.
2115 The President: Hon. Member for Middle, Mr Shimmins.
Mr Shimmins: Thank you, Mr President. I would like to revert to the matter of the average size that has been used in the assumptions. It was great to hear the Minister say this is such an important issue, he said it was 2120 absolutely vital that we get this right. That gives me some assurance. If that is the case, is it the Independent Planning Inspector that will review this average size of housing unit? Should that not be a matter for this Hon. Court to discuss and debate in a transparent way? I still have not heard who decided to increase the size of the average housing unit, when we know that the average household is markedly in decline. 2125 The President: Minister.
The Minister: Thank you. The evidence paper that was submitted as part of the Area Plan for the East already has got 2130 an identified author inside that report – staff inside Cabinet Office – and I have already said that we will be reviewing these things and I appreciate the submissions from some people around the Island. The Hon. Member makes a very good point. When you do something like household size you have to look backwards and therefore we are extrapolating trends, but extrapolating trends is 2135 difficult. It depends on other things that are going on, like changes to demography. The other point is policy determines the future, it is not only the trend in the past. So therefore if by chance this Hon. Court has a policy that is credible to the Independent Inspector and the Cabinet Office, and when we are making proposals the Independent Inspector has strong views, I guess that is the sort of thing that the Independent Inspector might take into account as they make 2140 recommendations back to Cabinet Office about what Area Plan for the East to bring to this Hon. Court for approval. Is absolutely crucial, the nature of housing; absolutely crucial the nature of our demography; and these are two key issues about which further evidence papers will be submitted into the Area Plan for the East process. 2145 The President: Hon. Member, Mr Crookall.
Mr Crookall: Thank you, Mr President. I just want to ask the Minister what his reasoning is for joining the West and the North Area 2150 Plans together – it is as though they have set a date and they have to be completed by that date, so we will just join these two together. I am a bit concerned there that one area might dominate the other one – probably the west over the north.
The President: Minister. ______1201 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
2155 The Minister: Well, by the time the Area Plan for the East is completed, 70% of the Island’s population will be inside an area planned process and half of the Island will be inside it. The north and the west are absolutely vital parts of our Island and I have picked up from Members of this Hon. Court that they want us to get to helping development in the north and west as soon as possible. So this is a practical response. 2160 The law is not prescriptive about how many Island plans we have. We want to complete this process now so that in the period 2021-22 to 2026 we can revisit these plans to have an all- Island plan at the next stage – a modern one by 2026.
The President: Hon. Member for Ramsey, Mr Hooper. 2165 Mr Hooper: Thank you very much, Mr President. I would like to welcome the fact that we are finally getting a northern plan and a western plan. It does slightly concern me that just under half the Island is going to be dealt with by a single strategic plan and I would like the Minister to take that on board. 2170 My question for the Minister starts off with: he said the inspector will decide what evidence is required as part of the inquiry; is it not the case that any member of the public is entitled to be heard under the Town and Country Planning Act – whether or not the inspector wishes to seek particular types of evidence or not, everyone has the legal right to be heard by that inquiry? I would be grateful if the Minister could confirm that. 2175 I would also be grateful if the Minister could advise what regard or what weight will be given to the inspector’s report by the Cabinet Office. Again the Town and Country Planning Act is quite specific that it is the Cabinet Office that will make a recommendation to Tynwald in respect of the plan. So how much regard and how much weight will the Cabinet Office be giving to the inquiry report and what is the likelihood that actually the Cabinet Office will be overriding some 2180 of the information and output for that report for what may be considered policy means or policy decisions? I am just trying to get a feel here for how independent this draft plan process is going to be when it finally reaches this Hon. Court.
2185 The President: Minister to reply.
The Minister: Thank you, Mr President. That is a good summary of the law – as good as my understanding. Evidence has been invited and evidence in good faith has been submitted. The Cabinet Office is following the law, and 2190 submissions in terms of making recommendations and also choosing what evidence to prepare and submit and the independence of the process includes an independent inspector and a public inquiry. At the next stage that inspector will make a report to the Cabinet Office and at that point the Cabinet Office will, inside law, make a recommendation to this Hon. Court. That is what happened with the Area Plan for the South because that is compliant with law 2195 and that is what will happen for the Area Plan for the East, because it is still compliant with law.
The President: Hon. Member, Mrs Maska.
Mrs Maska: Thank you, Mr President. 2200 Would the Minister agree that as we go forward it will be vital to more accurately predict the population numbers if we are not to then over identify sites that would potentially flood the market? We need to get accurate figures for housing need and housing provision, rather than over provide which may actually have a negative effect in reducing the value of properties that already exist. 2205 Could I also ask the Minister: in preparing development briefs, is there any plan to provide development briefs for brownfield sites, maybe as a priority over greenfield sites? Again, so that ______1202 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
we can give a better weighting to previously developed sites and avoid developing greenfield sites in the countryside. (Mr Cretney: Hear, hear.) Thank you, Mr President. 2210 The President: Mr Thomas.
The Minister: I think there were four questions inside that, Mr President. One is about the accuracy of the figures and I can assure you that the Cabinet Office, in all its 2215 parts, tries very hard to make sure that we have accurate economic figures about demography and population, and also accurate figures about residential land availability, take-up of planning permissions. So we are doing everything we can to make sure we have got accurate figures. That leads on to the policy principles about how we plan, monitor and then most importantly manage the release of land. That is an issue for the Area Plan for the East and I do not want to 2220 commit at this stage because that would be wrong under law, and also that is the whole issue that is at stake here. I would also want to remind this Hon. Court that we have a clear Programme for Government policy in terms of the demography and in terms of the population. The Locate.im policy, with all the co-dependencies around it identified very clearly in that report, makes it very clear that the 2225 Programme for Government is aimed at increasing the economically active population, making people have higher median earnings on average – that sort of average, we want to help people – and that is all going to make this place buzzing, such that we will need land for jobs and for residential life and everything that goes around it in a cultured place like this Island is. So these are at the heart of the issues and accurate statistics about the past are relevant, but 2230 also our policy collectively about what is going to happen in the future and what we want to happen in the future is also vital. That leads on to the final question which was about development briefs and whether we will spend more time working on brownfield sites rather than greenfield sites. I can absolutely assure the questioner and this Hon. Court that, for instance, the officers have worked really 2235 closely with Douglas Council, having site visits around the brownfield sites in Douglas to work up what everybody’s intentions are for the brownfield sites in Douglas. I hope they manage to have the same in places like Onchan where there are also brownfield sites, but I can only report on my knowledge of what has happened in Douglas. So the Tynwald Court policy on brownfield sites is important for this Government and this Court, and it is the sort of thing that informs the 2240 policy around the Area Plan for the East.
The President: Mr Shimmins.
Mr Shimmins: Thank you, Mr President. 2245 I was pleased to hear that the Cabinet Office are going to submit updated evidence taking account of the real world which we are operating in. Ahead of doing that update, will the Minister review the potential units available on brownfield sites, because many people feel that the Cabinet Office statistics significantly understate brownfield site capacity? Will he undertake to carry out this review of brownfield site 2250 potential ahead of submitting evidence?
The President: Reply, sir.
The Minister: Thank you, Mr President. 2255 I think this Hon. Court will agree and understand, and therefore agree that that is at the very heart of this public inquiry that is coming up in this Area Plan for the East process. There are different views on the intensity of development in brownfield sites, there are different views on
______1203 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
how our urban centres develop and that will be the sort of thing that needs to be decided in the Area Plan for the East process. 2260 The President: Mr Shimmins.
Mr Shimmins: Thank you, Mr President. I have got two final questions in terms of: will the evidence being submitted by the Cabinet 2265 Office be publicly promulgated ahead of the Eastern Area Plan so other people can look at it and understand whether it is credible or not? Will it contain an updated tally of the need based on the actual residential units that have been built since the Strategic Plan numbers in the west, the south and the north, together with all the planning approvals which are currently active? One last point about demographics. We know the demographic position. We know the 2270 ageing population is a real factor for us and the initial evidence submitted by the Cabinet Office did not factor this in at all – it was a simple spreadsheet – but the reality is that the ageing demographics may mean that we need fewer detached houses and more closely joined together residential communities. Again, this would reduce the overall land requirement which is the figure that our planning inspector will work back to. 2275 So will all these factors be taken into account? It is important they are and will they be published ahead of the public inquiry so that people can look and understand the Cabinet Office position?
The President: Minister. 2280 The Minister: Yes, yes, yes. Clearly evidence has always been published so, yes, it will be published. I think I outlined in the other place, if not here, when I was asked a question about land availability that RLAS(10) is being updated to version (11) and it will be updated to version (12) before the inquiry and the 2285 figures we will publish for the west and the north can also be updated if that is helpful. Finally, in point three, there is a clear point of view expressed in the question by the Hon. Member for Middle about residential communities and how older people are going to live and what the number of older people will be; this is exactly the sort of question that will be addressed in the inquiry and in the whole process, and it is the sort of thing that will be 2290 determined by Tynwald Court when the Area Plan for the East comes to this Hon. Court for approval.
The President: I will take a final question from Mr Baker.
2295 Mr Baker: Thank you very much, Mr President. Would the Minister agree with me that the joint approach for the Area Plan for the North and the West is eminently sensible, given the historical aspect of the plans that are currently in place, but that the area plan, whilst it is a fundamental and very important part of our Strategic Plan, is only one part of our planning system and it needs to be done; but ultimately the market 2300 will respond to the actual events that happen over the next number of years in terms of the size of units that are developed, the locations that are developed, exactly as they have done for a number of years? And that inevitably, whatever the Area Plan says for the east or the north or the west, actions will come forward, proposals will come forward which will deviate from the Area Plan, as 2305 evidence in the Southern Area Plan shows, and that it is a plan that has value but it is not something which is cast in absolute tablets of stone? And that ultimately the crucial thing is that we have a flexible and adaptable planning system to make sure we do deliver the Island that we want?
______1204 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
2310 The President: Minister to reply.
The Minister: I absolutely agree with the Chairman of the Planning Committee who has got such an in depth, detailed knowledge of planning after intensive studies and experience. The first point is that, of course, the plan has value, but absolutely I acknowledge that market 2315 forces and lifestyle choices have absolute value as well. For instance, for years there has been development land that is available in the north, but which has not been taken up. That is an example of market forces in process, but as I understand it from intensive contact with surveyors and the like, as part of the rates modernisation process things can change and are changing to an extent, so the Island is becoming more of a one-property market rather than a 2320 disparate divided property market, to an extent. All that sort of stuff has been very helpful to learn a bit more about, talking to real surveyors with real knowledge of market forces. That is, I think, the main point to say: the size of units, both in terms of the nature of units, in terms of employment and also in terms of residential. What we need around our employment land and our residential land in terms of other facilities – health, care, education, and all these 2325 other things – are all changing all of the time and it is up to good planners to capture that for us. To help planners capture that for us we need to have the whole of Government and so many people around Government working together to inform the Area Plan for the East process and the evolution of the Strategic Plan in to the north and west, and itself being reviewed thereafter.
2330 The President: Thank you, Hon. Members. That brings us to the end of Item 3.
Tribute to Jack Corrin CBE – correction
The President: Before we go on to Item 4, I just want to correct a small mistake I made earlier in the sitting in my tribute to Deemster Corrin. I think I said that he, in capacity as Deemster, had been promulgating the law from Tynwald for 28 years; I should have said 18 2335 years. If the public record could just correct that mistake, please.
4. Programme for Government – 2019/20 Report: Year 3 Amendments – Debate commenced
The Minister for Policy and Reform to move:
That Tynwald receives the Programme for Government 2019/20 Report: Year 3 Amendments [GD No 2019/0016] [MEMO].
The President: Item 4, Programme for Government. The Minister for Policy and Reform to move.
2340 The Minister for Policy and Reform (Mr Thomas): Thank you, Mr President. In November last year, this Hon. Court received a Programme for Government progress report, noted the progress in delivering that programme and reaffirmed our support for its strategic objectives and associated macro-indicators. It was also noted that additional actions and any amendments would be brought to this Tynwald for approval and thus I move today that
______1205 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
2345 Tynwald receives the Programme for Government 2019/20 Report, including Year 3 amendments, just as was promised back in November. These amendments have been worked up in the last few months as Hon. Members have reviewed the policy statements and actions. The aim has been to address any underachievement on new challenges to deliver the programme for a Government-agreed vision of an inclusive and 2350 caring society in an island of enterprise and opportunity, served by a financially responsible Government. I thank all Hon. Members for the committed but practical manner in which they have made their contributions, just as the Treasury Minister asked when seconding my Programme for Government motion last November. As he said then, we had a challenging year in front of us and 2355 we needed a positive and practical approach to delivering solutions with positive criticism; the criticism that will help us achieve our goals and objectives and not distract us from our work. Genuinely, I thank all Hon. Members for participating through Questions, through Tynwald Committee activity and in the Departments and various organs of executive Government in achieving exactly that. 2360 Mr President, one of the effects of the measure before you today is to withdraw actions from the Programme for Government which have either been completed or which are now recognised as business as usual activity. Completed actions include the establishment of a statutory Safeguarding Board, the Enterprise Agencies, GDPR-equivalent legislation, a reformed work permit system, and some reforms to planning and so on. Business as usual activity includes 2365 activity relating to financial products and enterprise funds. Another effect of this Amendments Report is to include new or follow-on actions in the Programme for Government. One such is to bring forward by the end of this year an all-Island strategy for housing with a five-year action plan. Another is an action to grow awareness of vulnerable groups including those experiencing mental health problems. Two others are the 2370 creation of a single offender record for the Isle of Man criminal justice system and the introduction of a unitary complaints process in the Department of Health and Social Care. Fundamentally important new environmental actions are those which provide for an action
plan for CO2 emissions reduction to tackle climate change, an all-Island action plan for single-use plastics and a management plan for marine zones. There are new actions to develop and 2375 execute strategies for the agencies and locate.im and to construct the ferry terminal in Liverpool, refurbish passenger facilities in the Sea Terminal in Douglas and to refinance the Steam Packet. Other new actions are: the development of Jurby and the airport technology gateway; positioning the Island as a suitable location for developing and testing the technologies needed 2380 for autonomous vehicles; online planning applications and Area Plans for the north and west; a new agricultural strategy focusing on productivity and environmental gains; and investment in active travel and ultrafast fibre broadband. Where existing actions require changes to define more clearly what is to be achieved or to reflect changing priorities or to ensure a realistic delivery date is set or to ensure that political 2385 sponsors are assigned, there are changes to wording, dates or political sponsor proposed. One, for instance, is the amendment of ‘Following the review of the electoral system ensure revised legislation is in place for the 2021 general election’, which has been to make it more specific, which is to ‘Modernise and deliver revised Representation of the People and Registration of Electors primary and secondary legislation’ by September 2020. 2390 Another group of amended actions are several of those aimed to deliver the outcome, ‘We live our lives safe from crime and danger’: specifically regarding due dates for digital transformation of the criminal justice system; and widening the scope of offences covered by cautions and fixed penalty net frameworks; as well as amending actions for the development of new guidelines for parole and probation frameworks; and the implementation of a new 2395 prevention and early intervention team which will work with young people at risk of entering the criminal justice system. ______1206 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
An important continuation action is the delivery and evaluation of the effectiveness of the Year 1 actions set out in the Public Service People Strategy. Another is the creation of a follow- up action plan for the smart service framework, building on the business case on this month’s 2400 Order Paper. The Equality Act action has been made more practical through amendments so that the action is now to put in place regulations and guidance for all protected characteristics, including equal pay by January 2020. The Chief Minister has a series of amended actions in respect of our international engagement and participation. Amended due dates include those for the delayed report on 2405 housing needs for an older population, the establishment of clearer support pathways and the publication of a white paper on intergenerational fairness. Mr President, another dimension in the Report before Hon. Members is that policy statements have been reviewed to reduce their number with some transformed into actions. One such is implementation of the planning reform action plan. Another relates to the 2410 modernisation of the rates system and to progress further incremental reforms to the Machinery of Government to deliver more effective, joined-up working as one Public Service, just as we were discussing in Question Time. A major announcement today, responding to Members’ suggestions, is that it is intended that this April Programme for Government debate will become the annual Programme for 2415 Government debate, with publication of an annual progress report in July. So we would not have the November Programme for Government debate, we would have an annual April Programme for Government debate, which is what we have picked up that Members want from their suggestions inside the processes. As the Chief Minister has reminded us from time to time, the Programme for Government is 2420 a living document. The changes made in this document follow 24 months of the Programme for Government in practice and the amendments today improve the effectiveness of the Programme in delivering its strategic objectives and the outcomes. With that, Mr President, Hon. Members, I beg to move.
2425 The President: The Chief Minister, Mr Quayle.
The Chief Minister (Mr Quayle): Thank you, Mr President. I beg to second and reserve my remarks.
2430 The President: The Hon. Member of Council, Mr Henderson.
Mr Henderson: Gura mie eu, Eaghtyrane. I thank the Shirveishagh for delivering his updated Report and the amendments and deletions that he has mentioned within the said Report and the reasons for that. Indeed, I must 2435 place on record the positivity that is coming from this Report in relation to the successes that the Minister has highlighted, including the Enterprise Agencies and so on; and for highlighting ongoing issues that will continue to be required to be addressed, such as the matters that the Treasury Minister mentioned earlier in his Answer with regard to Government budgets, and indeed the Chief Minister’s point with regard to Brexit and the pressure on our resources at the 2440 minute and overriding strategic responsibilities. All there in the updated Report, which is good, Eaghtyrane. I want to specifically mention one point that the Shirveishagh mentioned which was as regards improving the profile of mental health issues. I would just like to add my 100% support towards that. Having recently met with the Chief Constable and indeed mental health 2445 professionals who are working with the Police from Police Headquarters, I have to praise the current work as of today that is going on and the projected ideas and possibilities going forward to actively build upon all that good work that is currently being progressed. It is excellent. I just
______1207 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
hope that we still can continue to engender the support for these new initiatives going forward. (The Minister: But?) 2450 No buts! The work that I have witnessed lately with regard to mental health – 200% support. Having recognised all the national strategic issues, the mental health issues that I regularly highlight and certainly lend my support to and indeed the Isle of Man Police Force in all of this, they have my 200% support. In the past at times possibly we have unfairly burdened them with the ways we have tried to deal with mental health. So 200% support for the Police – no problem. 2455 What I would like to turn to though, Eaghtyrane, from these huge issues such as Brexit and budgetary issues, is the point within the Programme for Government and indeed the update, where the Shirveishagh has mentioned marine areas. What I would put on public record as a matter of critical interest to me, and urgency, is that we need to turn our attention to terrestrial areas in what we are doing in terms of conservation and in terms of our biodiversity and in 2460 terms of our Biosphere status. I would like to put pressure on the Shirveishagh, if I can put it like that, Eaghtyrane, that we need to push on with the designation of terrestrial areas on the Island to ensure the continuation of our biodiversity and conserving what we have now in moving forward. I know this is a difficult balancing act. It is easier to designate marine areas because there is 2465 no built environment or possibility of development land and so on. However, we have got to tackle this critical point going forward for our geographical landmass as well. I know work is going on with regard to this, but it seems to me, from the outside looking in, and others and our ecological environmental groups, that more emphasis has been placed on marine when we really do need to focus on terrestrial and in special reference to many of the issues I have been 2470 continually highlighting here, Eaghtyrane. I will not go into an exhaustive list but I did send all Tynwald Members yesterday a round robin circular as to some of the unique specialness in relation to our Island, which I know the Shirveishagh has got. Those are the points especially I am highlighting now that we really do need to ensure that we have got this wrapped up in the Programme for Government, enough emphasis on it. I know there is good work going on but we 2475 need to change gear and up our game in this regard. Gura mie eu, Eaghtyrane.
The President: Hon. Member for Ramsey, Dr Allinson.
2480 Dr Allinson: Thank you, Mr President. I would like to thank the Minister for Policy and Reform for presenting this Report and the amendments. The Programme for Government is a living, breathing and evolving process which all Hon. Members have helped create and support. The list of a couple of accomplishments is really impressive and the achievements of the 2485 various Ministers and Departments admirable, but what sets this apart from the ambitions of previous administrations is the inclusive nature of the process. It is right to see backbenchers’ names alongside targets and aspirations and it is important that we share responsibility within Departments for setting and meeting goals which will enhance the community we live in and the benefits to our constituents. 2490 I would specifically like to congratulate Mr Hooper for his achievements with regard to enterprise support schemes; (The Minister: Hear, hear.) Mr Shimmins, for his efforts on efficiency savings; Ms Edge, for her work on eligibility criteria for housing; Ms Bettison, for her attention to peer review of our Health Service; and Mrs Corlett, for her backing of safeguarding structures. All have delivered on their individual projects. Other MHKs and MLCs have ongoing 2495 programmes to complete or new challenges to meet. It is by working together for a common cause that makes this administration different to others. Some may label this as compliance but all of us stood for election because we knew there was work to be done. This is our recipe book to deliver on the promises we made in 2016 and a menu of our achievements to date. ______1208 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
2500 But Mr President, I have to apologise to this Hon. Court. On page 3 of the Report is an action in my name to finalise the economic impact assessment of the TT and Festival of Motorcycling. I regret that you do not already have this in front of you. Some of the intricacies of the calculations have been challenging and I hope to lay it before you when we next sit.
2505 The President: Mr Robertshaw, Deputy Speaker.
The Deputy Speaker: Thank you, Mr President. It is good to hear that at last we are getting some response to the Jury Select Committee’s 11 recommendations. I hope that the ones that have been so positively responded to here do not 2510 result in the whole thing collapsing, in a sense of exhaustion and everything else ignored. So I follow with great interest the other recommendations and their future implementation because they are important. I just have four comments, Mr President, that I would like to raise with regard to this update. As somebody who was deeply involved in bringing forward the original housing strategy in the 2515 last administration, I am just not quite sure where we stand now with the new proposal which is bringing forward a high level, all-Island strategy by December. There is nobody named as such. Are we not moving into sort of an interregnum here between what was and what might be? Could he give some clarity on that one, please? Okay, the second one. I am slightly sore about this really because there has been some 2520 criticism of the last administration over its, as it were, focus on vulnerability. I always defended strongly the commitment to that and in the new action here under the auspices of the Chief Minister it says, ‘Grow awareness of the needs of various vulnerable groups,’ and it delivers a date of 21st March. Does that mean effectively that this administration is somewhat late in the day, waking up to vulnerability issues? It has been in play now for some years and yet we do not 2525 get a focus on it until 2021. I would like some comments on that one from the Minister, if that is possible. It is good to see, on my third point, that the zero hours report is due to come back in June and therefore on target. Am I right to be disappointed that this is not going to include a review of gig economy issues or is it going to stay specifically with zero hours? Because both of those 2530 issues play into a broader matter of workplace pensions and potential future economic difficulties that that group engaged in those two areas might result in the future. I just want us to avoid, as it were – forgive me, I cannot resist – siloing these issues rather than seeing them in a much more broadly based approach? My final question for the Minister is: I wonder whether he could have perhaps a quiet word 2535 with the Minister to his right in terms of the new item which is refinancing the Isle of Man Steam Packet through the National Strategy Group (NSG) by November of this year? Could we have a little bit more clarity? Is it about financing the programme as defined or is it restructuring the financial arrangements around the Steam Packet itself? And if it is the latter does it impact upon, in any shape or form, crystallisation of the Sea Service Agreement that we are not going to be 2540 allowed to sign up to?
The President: Hon. Member for Ayre and Michael, Mr Baker.
Mr Baker: Thank you very much, Mr President. 2545 We are all very familiar with the Programme for Government and it clearly does what it was intended to do. Essentially it provides a development plan for the Island; I very much welcome the annual Programme for Government debate in April. I just want to restrict my comments very narrowly. I was intrigued by the comments at the bottom of page 1, but slightly disappointed by it: ‘The outcomes described the future vision for 2550 the Council of Ministers,’ and then, ‘which can be aligned to the UN Sustainable Development Goals.’ Those Sustainable Development Goals are an internationally recognised framework for ______1209 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
development which provide structure and accountability and external comparability of the development of nations. I think that we could be far stronger in not just aligning the vision and the outcomes, but actually expressing the outcomes and the visions in terms of the Sustainable 2555 Development Goals. I think it would be something that would be very much worth consideration by the Minister and the Council of Ministers to actually take this to another level and actually express the Programme for Government in the form of the Sustainable Development Goals which are internationally recognised. I would just like to ask for a commitment as to whether that is something that he would be prepared to support. 2560 The President: Hon. Member of Council, Mrs Poole-Wilson.
Mrs Poole-Wilson: Thank you, Mr President. I just want to restrict my comments on this updated Programme for Government to two 2565 issues. First of all, I am happy to be named as the political sponsor for the latest action which appears in here in terms of implementing the Equality Act. However, actually picking up on the Hon. Member for Ayre and Michael, Mr Baker’s comment – and the Minister for Policy and Reform will recall that I talked to him about this – it is a discrete action which we will endeavour 2570 to achieve by 2020. But really, equality is about a caring and inclusive Island, and the UN Sustainable Development Goals are a key part of that. So my plea, I suppose, would be that we carry on thinking about what the reality of living equality looks like and that, I think, cuts across a number of actions and initiatives across Government – and that is ongoing. 2575 The second thing that I would like to comment on is I am delighted that the People Strategy action remains on this Programme for Government and remains an ‘evaluate and assess’ action. Across the entire Public Service, all of these actions are reliant on the capability, the commitment, the will, the good management, the good performance of public servants. We will get nowhere if we cannot engage, attract, retain, support and empower public servants to 2580 deliver the best they can. So I am delighted that we do not treat the People Strategy as a tick box where we create a plan and think we have done it, but we actively engage in looking at how well we manage the Public Service and engage and empower them in order, strategically, that we can support the delivery wholescale of actions in the Programme for Government. Thank you, Mr President. 2585 The President: Hon. Members, with the clock showing one o’clock, we shall adjourn and unless I hear otherwise I shall be calling on the mover to reply at 2.30 p.m. The Court will stand adjourned.
The Court adjourned at 1.01 p.m. and resumed at 2.30 p.m.
Programme for Government – Debate continued – Motion carried
The President: Please be seated, Hon. Members. 2590 We return to Item 4. I call – Hon. Member for Ayre and Michael, Mr Cannan.
The Minister for the Treasury (Mr Cannan): Thank you, Mr President. ______1210 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
I thought I might try and be helpful to the Deputy Speaker, because I am a helpful sort of 2595 person, normally, (Laughter) and just help him with his Sea Services Agreement. He asked before lunch whether the Sea Services Agreement had any correlation to the target in the Programme for Government to resolve the financing of the Steam Packet. The answer to that question is yes, because the Sea Services Agreement provides a platform for the company to forecast or to make their financial plans based on the services that they have to consider; and 2600 therefore in making their financial plans, one has to factor in and consider – or they will be able to consider – how best then to incorporate the approved financing arrangements once this Hon. Court has resolved that appropriately.
The President: I call on the Minister to reply. Mr Thomas. 2605 The Minister for Policy and Reform: Thank you, Mr President. Mr Henderson started. I thank him for his positivity. He also shared his congratulations in terms of prioritising and looking at mental health issues. I know that is particularly important for the Chief Minister and that is why that action is under the Chief Minister’s personal 2610 responsibility. He also made a very good point about the need to focus on terrestrial areas alongside marine areas. I just wanted to remind the Hon. Member that inside the consultation about agriculture recently there has been a focus on how agriculture and farmers and people who use land can actually contribute to the terrestrial biodiversity. It has been a very important consultation and 2615 there are other elements and it is equally important to me to make sure that we focus on the land and biodiversity, the Biosphere ethos. I appreciate Dr Allinson’s remarks and description of the Programme for Government. Today’s debate was very focused and Mr Deputy Speaker had formed very specific questions which I will go through. 2620 The first one was about housing strategy. He asked about whether or not there was an interregnum between one housing strategy and another housing strategy. As silo government vanishes, as we move towards all being in this together and harmonising policies, there is no longer a need to think about kings and that sort of stuff. What we are basically saying is that when you wrote the introduction to your five-year housing strategy you talked about it as being 2625 a five-year framework and it is only right now that we look at the success of that strategy over those five years and then revitalise it for the next five years. We have got some really important issues in housing to address. This Hon. Court and the wider general public can rest assured that this is going to be a cross-Government approach to housing, led from the centre of Government. In terms of vulnerability, it is a fair point, but talking about protecting the vulnerable is one 2630 thing, but doing something about it and doing something about specific vulnerabilities is another thing. So in the safeguarding world at some point we need to question the use of ‘vulnerable’ inside the Safeguarding Act because there are all sorts of vulnerabilities and all sorts of access to services and all sorts of conditions that need to be taken into account. It is like that with housing and it is like that with Social Security and it is like that with aspects of social care and health. So 2635 all we are signalling in that is the Chief Minister was very keen that across Government we focused on some particular vulnerabilities and identify what we needed to do about them. I think it is going to be one of the most important things for the Chief Minister after telecoms has been addressed and planning has been addressed. (The Deputy Speaker: Brexit.) I know that the Chief Minister is personally going to lead on this as well. 2640 The zero hours contracts – very helpfully, the Minister leading that Chief Minister working group, Minister Ashford, passed me a note to say that the idea was that we have a first report in June on the original terms of reference and then perhaps that terms of reference can be extended to include other aspects of the gig economy and the connection with pensions and the connections with earnings and all those other sorts of things. 2645 Finally, my helpful colleague from Treasury has answered in terms of the Steam Packet. ______1211 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
Mr Baker made a very helpful contribution about the Sustainable Development Goals. It is very helpful. DEFA, his Department, has done a great deal of work on making a proposal in terms of the Sustainable Development Goals. I know from the workshop, that Mr Baker was very keen on the brand identity and what are the values of the Isle of Man and so on. That is something 2650 that we noted down as being a Member’s contribution. Where we are with the Sustainable Development Goals is Council of Ministers, in this proposition for the Programme for Government, has acknowledged that it is a serious matter making a statement about alignment with the Sustainable Development Goals, and we are beginning a process perhaps lasting two years to make sure we make the most of that 2655 alignment. One thing I would say is that we can be incredibly valuable in international terms as we approach this, because we are an important nation but we are defined by being small. So I really do think that how we reflect on how we align ourselves in terms of education and health and biodiversity and all the other things, it can actually be helpful for the UN community collectively 2660 and I am looking forward, as one person, to years of activity, thinking and imagining how the alignment with the SDGs of the UN might look. Mrs Poole-Wilson also made some very helpful comments. I am delighted that she has accepted so enthusiastically the challenge of building a caring and inclusive Island through the actions this year, the legislation this year and more comprehensively across Government. I 2665 completely agree with Mrs Poole-Wilson, hon. colleague from Council, that the People Strategy needs to be more than just that; it needs to be a constantly evaluated action plan. This Hon. Court should remember we have now got a slightly differently focused Public Service Commission which will be an important part in that and also we are doing things to make us more like one Public Service. Now we have a weekly internal communication email to all 2670 gov.im email holders and through them to wider people; and that sort of approach can actually build on the people aspects, because a Public Service is only as good as the public servants. We have got some great public servants in the Isle of Man and we need to make sure that we build on that and take action to encourage contribution. With that, Mr President, I beg to move 2675 The President: Hon. Members, the motion is that Tynwald receives the Programme for Government 2019/20 Report Year 3 amendments. Those in favour, say aye; against, no. The ayes have it. The ayes have it.
5. Constitutional and Legal Affairs and Justice Committee – Second Report for the Session 2018-10: Criminal Justice Strategy – Motion carried
The Chair of the Constitutional and Legal Affairs and Justice Committee (Mrs Poole-Wilson) to move:
That Tynwald receives the Constitutional and Legal Affairs and Justice Committee’s Second Report for the Session 2018-10: Criminal Justice Strategy [PP No 2019/0050].
The President: Item 5, Constitutional and Legal Affairs and Justice Committee. Chair of the 2680 Committee to move, Mrs Poole-Wilson.
The Chair of the Constitutional and Legal Affairs and Justice Committee (Mrs Poole-Wilson): Thank you, Mr President.
______1212 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
Hon. Members may recall that when the Constitutional Legal Affairs and Justice Committee 2685 was established, the Deputy Speaker, Mr Robertshaw talked about this Committee being one that would not be loud but would be quiet and considerate in its work and its deliberations, and that part of its work would be to inform and engage Hon. Members in debate on matters associated with our legal and justice system. Our First Report, debated in this Hon. Court in February, recommending that there be 2690 executive responsibility for justice, was the conclusion of a wide range of evidence and consideration undertaken during the Committee’s first year of operation. This, our Second Report, which highlights the lack of progress so far in implementing the Criminal Justice Strategy and explores some of the reasons for this, provides further support for the adoption of a single point of executive oversight and responsibility for all matters pertaining 2695 to our criminal justice system. I will not reiterate the detail of our short report. The headlines can be summarised as follows. Approved by Tynwald in December 2012, the Criminal Justice Strategy had seven core objectives and had the aim of vigorously encouraging the various parties involved in the criminal justice system to work together in new ways. 2700 Some six years on, when asked about which of those objectives had been met so far, the evidence was that there had been little measurable progress on any of them. Problems include: the lack of data and management information to drive improvements and measure progress; the lack of capacity for change, in particular the set up and operation of the Criminal Justice Board, the absence of an overarching framework for accountability and the fact that different agencies 2705 and departments have tended to work in budget down silos as opposed to working jointly to deliver strategic priorities; the lack of progress of digitisation has also been an issue. The review of the criminal justice system in 2011 found that there were up to 98 different forms and 22 systems to be updated on one offender’s journey through the system. In his recent response to the Hon. Member for Ramsey Mr Hooper’s questions on the current position, the 2710 Minister for Home Affairs noted that while there have been some areas of modernisation, there have been no fundamental changes in the IT infrastructure of the respective agencies involved in criminal justice. Our Report highlights the breakdown of the Youth Justice team as a worrying example of how even a once successful part of our criminal justice system can fail due to the lack of a single point 2715 of accountability and funding streams attached to delivering strategic outcomes. At this point it is important to acknowledge that certain agencies, in particular the Constabulary and the Prison and Probation Service, have made progress and improvements. I have had the opportunity to spend time at the Prison to hear about the extensive work being done to support prisoner rehabilitation and to meet the staff involved in, and the prisoners 2720 benefiting from, education services there. The Constabulary are developing, as part of their Prevention Strategy, early intervention work to help divert the young from criminal behaviour. These initiatives are welcome and will hopefully have a positive, measurable impact; but they are being developed individually rather than as part of a joined-up strategy. We are also aware of work being done on legislative 2725 enablers. Again, these developments are welcome. And the Constabulary is piloting its new CONNECT system to modernise how the Police manage information. All of this is positive, but progress has been too slow. It remains piecemeal and there is more that could and should be done. On behalf of the Committee, I would like to thank the Chief Constable and the Minister for 2730 Home Affairs and the Interim Chief Executive for the Department of Home Affairs for the way in which they gave evidence to the Committee, because they shared, frankly, their thoughts on what has not worked and what they think needs to change in order to better progress the Criminal Justice Strategy in future. It is never easy to discuss what has not worked well, but without such open reflection there 2735 cannot be meaningful change and improvement. So again I thank them and hope that, moving ______1213 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
forward, there will continue to be critical and open reflection, as well as regular reporting on progress. Hon. Members will note that the Committee makes no recommendations. Rather we have asked that this Hon. Court receives this Report. In adopting this approach, the Committee is 2740 inviting Hon. Members to participate in constructive debate on the evidence and on the issues of what has hampered progress and what needs to change. Whilst we recognise that work is underway to review the Strategy and to make changes to address the problems there have been regarding implementation, in the Committee’s view there is the fundamental problem of a lack of data against which to measure progress and set targets. 2745 There also remains a core challenge, namely the wider inability too often of Government to be able to plan, budget and work strategically across different Departments and agencies. The Committee believes that executive responsibility for justice is part of what will help to address the challenge, and we welcome the support of the Council of Ministers and this Hon. Court for this and we recognise that implementation of this recommendation is something that must be 2750 considered carefully and properly. But to reiterate what the then Minister for Home Affairs said when bringing the Criminal Justice Strategy to Tynwald in 2012, there must be focus and accountability for the Strategy, because without it the transformation required for the various elements that currently make up the criminal justice system will not be driven forward. We would go further: focus and 2755 accountability are important, but without addressing current structures and ways of working, there is still a risk that the good work which is now going on and the overall Criminal Justice Strategy will not make the necessary progress. In our concluding remarks we reflect that we do not think the original aims of the Strategy were fundamentally flawed or overly ambitious. In bringing this Report to this Hon. Court today, 2760 I would like to encourage Hon. Members to reflect on the Committee’s findings and the core and essential need to improve on planning, budgeting and working strategically across different agencies. Thank you, Mr President.
2765 The President: Deputy Speaker, Mr Robertshaw.
The Deputy Speaker: Thank you, Mr President. I beg to second and reserve my remarks.
2770 The President: Hon. Member, Mr Thomas.
The Minister for Policy and Reform (Mr Thomas): Thank you, Mr President. I wish to thank the Hon. Member of the Legislative Council and her Committee for bringing forward this Report. While the Report focuses on the Criminal Justice Strategy, there are clearly 2775 broader issues to consider in respect of Government and how it works together to more effectively achieve our common aim. Government supports this Report and its conclusions. There are clearly structural, systemic and cultural issues to how we work together. We are starting to address some of those issues. We are looking at how we create a stronger, more strategic centre which focuses on data 2780 collection and integrated policy and legislation development. There is a project underway already to look at that. We are also considering how we can use data better to make better policy and make things better for all of us. The Programme for Government is a huge step forward. That is a focus on outcomes which we all collectively want to achieve and I am sure this report, like other reports from various 2785 Tynwald Policy Review Committees and Select Committees, will be helpful in moving us along. My colleague, the Minister for Home Affairs, will I am sure respond directly to the comments on the Criminal Justice Strategy. I would like to reassure both the Hon. Members of the ______1214 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
Committee and this Hon. Court that we are listening, that we are taking action and we have noted recommendations in the First Report and note the conclusions in this Second Report. 2790 Thank you, Mr President.
The President: Hon. Member for Douglas Central, Mrs Corlett.
Mrs Corlett: Thank you, Mr President. 2795 This Report makes for uncomfortable reading. Six years on from the introduction of the Criminal Justice Strategy, and there has still been very little measurable progress. The reason for this is very clearly and concisely contained in the Committee’s concluding remarks. Firstly, lack of data prevents any measurable progress – without data, target setting is impossible, as is evidence-based decision making; secondly, the past and present inability of the 2800 different agencies to work together to achieve the aims of the Strategy, because Government itself cannot plan, budget or work strategically. (The Deputy Speaker: Hear, hear.) The only way to achieve and sustain the aims of the Strategy is to establish collaborative and cohesive multi-agency partnerships. Finding a way to successfully joint commission is essential if we are to deliver effective and efficient services, not only within the criminal justice system but 2805 throughout Government. Statutory requirements for partners to co-operate at both a strategic and operational level could deliver more effective sustained steps to sustain services. It cannot be accepted that the consequences of clashing personalities or withdrawal of funding from individual Departments means the loss of effective services such as the Youth Justice team. I would agree with the Committee that the formation of a Police early action team has to be 2810 a positive move, but it will not work in isolation. A criminal justice response alone is not sufficient for children who do offend. Early intervention, education and engagement with young people – a holistic, multi-agency approach to stop children offending will surely result in fewer adults in prison in the future. Children need support structures that listen to their experiences, speak to their needs and act on what works best to get the best outcomes for them. 2815 So many of us stood for election because we wanted this administration to be different from the last, but if we do not commit to changing the way we do things then we will just fall into the same old ways. (Mr Thomas: Hear, hear.) Nothing changes without political will. Minister Thomas stated earlier that it is action and policy that changes the world. If we really want to make a difference then we need to commit both politically and financially to services 2820 that will make a real impact and for me that means investment into our most valuable asset: our young people. Thank you.
A Member: Hear, hear. 2825 Mr Thomas: Hear, hear. Well said.
The President: Hon. Member for Douglas South, Mr Malarkey.
2830 The Minister for Home Affairs (Mr Malarkey): Thank you. Mr President, Hon. Members, I am grateful to the Committee for the opportunity that we were given to give evidence them. Their questions were challenging, and we were frank in our responses. I do not propose to challenge anything that was said to the Committee or indeed the Committee’s findings today. 2835 Mr President, the Criminal Justice Strategy was ambitious and, I believe, must remain ambitious. I also do think that the Strategy is bringing in results. It has provided a clear strategic direction for the services that form part of the board. For example, the Strategy aims to reduce the number of people who go to prison for less serious offences. Guided by this objective, the Prison Governor and his colleagues in the Prison and Probation Service have worked hard to ______1215 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
2840 develop more credible community sentencing penalties so the courts do not have to send so many people to prison. As a result, the number of people entering community service has increased by 400%, from 19 in October 2014 to over 85 in January this year. We now have a definitive measure for reoffending in the Isle of Man – figures to work from. In 2018 re-offending was identified as just over 12% of people who reoffended within 12 months 2845 of leaving prison or at the end of their supervision date. This is key in helping to identify whether our interventions to reduce reoffending are working. Other actions we are taking or have taken include: the appointment of a Prison Governor and Head of Community Rehabilitation, made on the basis of a job description based on the vision of the Criminal Justice Strategy; we have published a Code of Practice for Victims and Witnesses 2850 which commits all parts of the Criminal Justice System to minimum service levels – this will help ensure we are meeting our objectives of a more victim-focused criminal justice system; the parole process has been reviewed and is now focused on ensuring offenders are engaged with resettlement targets and reducing their risk of reoffending – parole is not automatic, it has to be earned, Mr President; a pioneering new digital tool has been introduced in both the Prison and 2855 Probation – the intervention hub aims to allow offenders to identify and address some of the factors behind their behaviour and, importantly, provides a measurement tool to allow probation officers to track progress towards their rehabilitation; we have also revised Multi- Agency Public Protection Arrangements (MAPPA) to enhance the protection of the public by managing the most risky and dangerous offenders in a joined up way. 2860 Mr President, of course there is more work to be done, not just to reduce re-offending but to ensure that re-offending rates remain low. There is also work to be done under the strand of the Strategy called ‘appropriate response’ which aims to reduce the number of people entering the criminal justice system in the first place. We will be introducing legislation soon to provide more powers to the Police, Probation and 2865 others to intervene appropriately where they meet with people at risk of offending. Early intervention is always the best option forward. We will also be bringing forward legislation in future in relation to the management of offenders, and the kinds of sentences available to the courts for serious offences. I agree having good data is important and the work that we are doing continues to develop better data streams. Some of this will require investment in new 2870 technology. I also agree we must have more effective oversight of the Strategy by the Criminal Justice Board. That is why we are intending to introduce legislation soon which will place the board on a statutory basis, with powers not just to oversee but also to co-ordinate and monitor the operation of the criminal justice system and the provision of criminal justice services. 2875 In the short term, I have agreed with the Chief Minister that the Chief Secretary will chair the Criminal Justice Board to provide a clear direction for change. Members, shortly my Department Member, Dr Allinson, who is also a member of the Cabinet Office, will update you on the work he is doing with GTS and our new CONNECT system within the Cabinet Office. 2880 Mr President, I am grateful for this opportunity to contribute to this debate this afternoon, outlining what we have done and agreeing that there is much more work to be done and I thank the Committee and the Members this afternoon for this debate and give you my reassurance that we are well ahead in my opinion of driving the things that the Committee has come up with further forward and you have my total commitment that this will carry on into the future. 2885 Thank you, Mr President.
Mr Thomas: Hear, hear.
The President: Hon. Member for Garff, Mrs Caine. 2890 Mrs Caine: Thank you, Mr President. ______1216 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
I would like to commend the Committee for its Report today, and I thank and acknowledge the Home Affairs Minister for his Department’s frankness in speaking to the Committee (A Member: Hear, hear.) and giving evidence at the Inquiry; but also for the Hon. Minister’s 2895 acknowledgement of the need to have a clear, strategic direction to deliver the Criminal Justice Strategy and for his ongoing focus to improve data collection and oversight by the Criminal Justice Board. While the Isle of Man remains a very safe place, we are all aware of low-level offending that detracts from the stated aim of the Isle of Man being a great place to live and work. One of the 2900 concerning aspects in this Report is the lack of progress on data collection on reoffending because of a shameful six-year failure to define the term. That defies belief and is absolutely ludicrous – like something out of an episode of Yes Minister! Surely the Island could have used the same definition of reoffending as is used elsewhere. The single most concerning aspect for me, though, was the section detailing how the failure 2905 of the strategy has impacted on Youth Justice. The Report states at paragraphs 20 and 21, and I quote:
20. Improving the accountability of the Criminal Justice Board does not, however, address the fundamental problem that Government lacks the capacity for strategic thinking, planning, and budgeting.
21. A worrying example of the impact of this lack of capacity is the breakdown of the Youth Justice team. When the Criminal Justice Strategy was published in 2012, the team’s work was recognised as highly effective; but in 2018, the Chief Constable reported that the number of under-18s being arrested has risen by 22%. The Youth Justice team has now been dissolved.
The Chief Constable, who I believe has committed to reforming the Youth Justice Team, made the point to the Committee about the need for joint commissioning, and for joint commissioning to be effective. 2910 Mr President, I would suggest that the problems are deeper rooted than just the Criminal Justice Strategy and that Council of Ministers needs to address this silo mentality as a matter of urgency. How does it expect to deliver the Programme for Government if Departments are not working together effectively? Joint commissioning for Children’s Services, incorporating Youth Justice, Health, Social Care 2915 and Education, is an obvious and desirable leap forward from where we are. (A Member: Hear, hear.) The Programme for Government we have just received states that Cabinet Office will progress further incremental reforms to the machinery of Government to deliver more effective joined-up working as one public service by June next year. Is that radical enough or soon enough? Or, in fact, is it achievable at all? 2920 I suggest the entire Council of Ministers needs to sit up and take notice of this Report, or we can expect other committee reports on approved policies in the future to echo the failure of the Criminal Justice Strategy. I would expect to see Sir Jonathan Michael’s report on Health echo these failings of joined-up Government, failures concerned with operating effectively at a strategic cross-Departmental level. I would hate to see the Environmental Strategies approved 2925 last month fall into the same ‘can’t be implemented’ box because of a lack of cohesion at the strategic level. Bureaucratic divisions, where they still exist, need to be broken down to improve the efficiency of policy implementation, to deliver positive change with outcome-based budgeting and a focus on better outcomes being achieved more cost-effectively for the people of the Isle 2930 of Man. I do not feel this will necessarily be achieved by pushing forward the Single Legal Entity, which could actually result in a lot of time-consuming legislative change. What is needed in this administration is for the Government to seek cultural change to empower everyone who works for Government to work effectively as a single organisation – a single, accountable organisation that is able to deliver our strategic priorities. 2935 Thank you, Mr President.
______1217 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
The President: Hon. Member for Ramsey, Dr Allinson.
Dr Allinson: Thank you, Mr President. I would like to thank Members of the Committee for their blunt and honest Report. Scrutiny 2940 is an integral part of good governance. Administrations and individual Departments must be held to account if they fail to deliver on strategies and do not address shortcomings. The Minister for Home Affairs has already addressed the Report before us today in a very pragmatic and honest way. Delivery of the 2012 Criminal Justice Strategy was dependent on a change in culture, a change in legislation, more co-operation dependent on people working 2945 together and effective communication. Legislative changes have been slow and painful to deliver. In 2010 a Committee elected by the House of Keys reported on the draft Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill. They rejected the Bill in its previous format, arguing that the matters involved were far too complicated to be examined in a normal way and that the 2950 legislation was too unwieldy and should be split into separate parts which would be easier to consult on. The Minister for Home Affairs has already outlined the ambitious legislative timetable of which the Department has said itself: there are a series of focused Bills coming forward to address many of the points in the Report. The delays are in part due to their intellectual complexity and also due to the stress that Brexit has inflicted on a legislative process. 2955 New research has highlighted the long-term effects of adverse childhood experiences. Emphasis on reducing these through proactive policing and adequate legal sanctions is now a priority in the Isle of Man Constabulary redesigning their approach to Youth Justice. In my role as a Member of the Cabinet Office with responsibility for GTS, I would like to comment on some of the Report’s findings regarding data, co-operation and efficiency. The use 2960 of new but validated technologies has the potential to revolutionise the way we provide services to our population, but also creates new efficiencies, more real-time data and frees frontline staff to help the public. The Minister for Home Affairs has made reference to the Intervention Hub. The Prison and Probation Service have introduced a series of readily accessible online CBT modules to aid rehabilitation, restore empathy and reduce reoffending. 2965 In a Written Answer to the Hon. Member for Ramsey, Mr Hooper, the Minister had previously listed the ambitious range of programmes already being provided which include anger management, alcohol awareness, thinking skill, domestic abuse and education and employment. Greater self-analysis leads to reflection, increased awareness and self- improvement. This can already be evidenced by the success of the educational programmes in 2970 our Prison and the number of people taking part in community service programmes which improve our physical environment. The Report before us is rightly critical about the lack of data and co-operation between services. Minister Malarkey has worked closely with Treasury to secure extra funding for the Constabulary’s CONNECT system. The Constabulary are increasingly being asked to police a 2975 digital world with analogue methods and tools. Without this welcome investment in technology, they will not be able to protect our community effectively and keep people safe. A strategic partnership has been set up with Northcape Public Services Ltd, which is a wholly owned subsidiary of the NEC Corporation, one of the largest technology companies in the world. CONNECT’s Go and Express allow officers to input data on tablet devices and utilise geo- 2980 positioning to reduce paper form-filling, and spend more time in neighbourhoods dealing with incidents at the scene. Modules will also be employed to give greater forensic capability and log custody assets and evidence more accurately. Importantly, the CONNECT Partner Module allows for the sharing of information with other agencies such as Health and Social Care and Probation to solve problems, increase 2985 communications and improve services to the vulnerable through faster response times. As set out in the review of the digital strategy presented to this Hon. Court last November, GTS is working with the Department of Home Affairs on a range of other related projects: body- ______1218 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
worn cameras have been shown to reduce complaints and increase successful convictions; new audio recording and video conferencing will enable more cases to be dealt with effectively and 2990 remotely without the accused having to be physically brought to court for each hearing; a Courts and Tribunals Management System will enhance current processes improving efficiency and levels of public service. All these new processes link together. The Police CONNECT System, when fully functional, will deliver the ability to share case files securely with the Attorney General’s Chamber and further digitalise the prosecution 2995 management process. Mr President, Minister Malarkey has already outlined how he is going to take these matters forward. This Minister and this Department are now not only recognising the inefficiencies and delays in the system but by partnering with GTS are establishing new ways of working – to drive efficiency, crime prevention and rehabilitation; but, more importantly, to protect victims of 3000 crime and ensure justice. Thank you, Mr President.
The President: The Deputy Speaker, Mr Robertshaw.
3005 The Deputy Speaker: Thank you, Mr President. I will not be on my feet long because I think the numerous, very articulate and clear speeches so far have captured the spirit of this debate very clearly. I am particularly grateful to the Chairman of our Committee whose words resonated around the Court this afternoon and were received warmly by all Members. 3010 I think we all understand the challenge that lies before us. As everybody knows, I feel strongly that we are inhibited currently by some of our structures. It is not just a question of goodwill on everybody’s part because clearly that is already abundantly clear this afternoon. There have to be clear vehicles that will allow this new thinking to materially sustain itself. There was no lack of goodwill in the first instance when the Youth Justice Programme first 3015 came in. But it was not dragged down by bad will, it was dragged down because budgets were disseminated into Departments and disappeared because, quite understandably, various Departments had a variety of their own priorities in a very demanding financial set of circumstances. So we really need to provide, on the floor of this Hon. Court, the capacity for the political will 3020 to dictate what needs to happen. If we want Youth Justice across the various Departments we have got to have, in the future, the capacity to deliver that through the budgetary system. You know how strongly I feel about new Members coming in: allocated a Department, a delegation and an extra facility, and they get lost in the detail. Our job is to see the big picture and to understand the cross-departmental issues that we need to be able to vote on and then see 3025 delivered. So I hope it is not too long before for this Hon. Court has great confidence in the fact that we have full cross-departmental strategic capacity. We have not got that yet. I hope we are not too far away from the day when there are Ministers and Deputy Ministers but, beneath that, Hon. Members who not only serve in Policy Review Committees but also serve cross- 3030 departmentally on themed issues, whether it is children, or justice, or whatever. Because therein lies the ability for us as politicians, elected by the people, to really deliver what we know people want. Thank you, Mr President.
3035 The President: I call on the mover to reply, Mrs Poole-Wilson.
Mrs Poole-Wilson: Thank you, Mr President; and thank you to everyone who has spoken this afternoon.
______1219 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
Before addressing the points that people have made, I would like to thank on behalf of the 3040 Committee, our Clerk, Francisca Gale, (The Deputy Speaker: Hear, hear.) for her excellent work in supporting the Committee and on this Report. Thank you to all Hon. Members who have spoken and indeed their positive and frank engagement with the issues that our Report brings to this Hon. Court. If I begin with the Minister for Policy and Reform: I agree, and I am glad that has been picked 3045 up, that what this Report does is draw out the broader issue of how well Government works together to deliver the outcomes that we need to see. And it is encouraging to hear that there is work going on to look from the centre at how things can be improved structurally, systemically and culturally in order that we work better and deliver better outcomes. I am particularly encouraged that there is work focusing on how we collect data and then, 3050 importantly, how we can use that data to drive targets and measure outcomes. So I would like to thank him for listening to the Committee’s Report in that context, but actually more importantly for talking about the action which is being taken to try and address these challenges. I would like to thank the Hon. Member for Douglas Central, Mrs Corlett, for her contribution which I wholeheartedly agree with. We will not succeed unless we can achieve better 3055 collaborative and cohesive multi-agency working. I completely agree with her; and I think there are ideas that she shared about effective joint commissioning and statutory requirements for bodies to work jointly together that are well worth exploring to drive these important changes. I also agree with her, our Report was about the Criminal Justice System but the issues we are talking about, particularly when it comes to young, vulnerable individuals deserve more than a 3060 criminal justice response. We must be holistic; we must look at the broadest possible understanding of need and intervention if we are to prevent, particularly our young, vulnerable people, entering a life of crime. So I would like to thank her for her support and her reflections. The Minister, I would like to thank him again for his engagement with the Committee (The Deputy Speaker: Hear, hear.) and his ongoing frank and open acknowledgement of the 3065 challenges and recognise the various pieces of work that are ongoing, and it is again encouraging to hear about that. I will not go through everything that he mentioned but it is, again, encouraging that technology can be used – and he gave the example of the Intervention Hub to use tools to actually engage with rehabilitation and, importantly, measure how well those interventions work in practice, because it is only by assessing how well we do that we can move 3070 on and improve and make changes that might help to address things like rehabilitation and be even more successful. I am pleased that he also talked about work on better data streams and better oversight of the Criminal Justice Board, and again it comes back to how do we make sure that we bring together different Departments and agencies and offices to work collectively for a shared 3075 outcome that is in the interests of service users on our Island? So I would like to thank him for talking about what is being done to address those things. Mrs Caine, the Hon. Member for Garff: I thank her for her contribution. Again in common with other people who spoke, she highlighted that this is wider than the criminal justice system. This presents a challenge for us in many ways and I think she referred to climate change, for 3080 example. But there are many outcomes that we would look to achieve that require effective co- operation if we are going to deliver those outcomes. So I thank her for her support. And Dr Allinson, I thank him for his contributions and for particularly highlighting the ability or what is possible through Government Technology Services to really revolutionise and drive effective change. 3085 Finally, Mr Robertshaw, Deputy Speaker and fellow Committee Members, Hon. Members will be aware that this is a long-held passion of Mr Robertshaw’s that we really do focus on how we drive strategic thinking, planning and working across Government because we have to get the right outcomes for people. And, as he said, goodwill is not enough. There are lots and lots of public servants with goodwill and ambition and interest in driving change, but things will not 3090 work unless we put in place structures that enable these things to be delivered and prioritised ______1220 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
and budgeted for. (The Deputy Speaker: Hear, hear.) And in this Hon. Court it is also true that we must see the big picture, we must join the dots and we must look at how we drive that working together for effective outcomes. So the Committee recognises there are a number of positive steps that have been taken to 3095 drive forward implementation of this strategy and we welcome it. But in the same way that we have all been open, the officers and the Minister were open with us about the challenges in progressing this strategy, and people in this Hon. Court have been open and clear about that this afternoon. So we must face up to those challenges and we must drive better implementation in order to 3100 get better services and better outcomes. Fundamental changes to structures and ways of working and budgeting are essential to help those working in Departments and agencies in their drive to deliver strategic change. And actually, earlier, in response to the question about the Council of Ministers Single Legal Entity Sub-Committee, I personally was pleased to hear the Minister for Policy and Reform talking about how the output of that Committee is crucial in the 3105 evolution of Isle of Man Government; and talking about the importance of joined-up and better- functioning public services. So I think, not only from the perspective of the Criminal Justice Strategy, but for many reasons I welcome his commitment for that Sub-Committee to meet again after the Sir Jonathan Michael Review is debated in May, and also for these really important issues to come to the 3110 floor of this Hon. Court in a debate in the autumn, because if we can get the strategic capacity of Government to work effectively right then we will see, I believe, huge improvements in outcomes. And with that, I beg to move.
3115 Two Members: Hear, hear.
The President: Hon. Members, the motion at Item 5 is that Tynwald receives the Constitutional and Legal Affairs and Justice Committee’s Second Report for the Session 2018-19: Criminal Justice Strategy. Those in favour, say aye; against, no. The ayes have it.
A division was called for and electronic voting resulted as follows:
In the Keys – Ayes 20, Noes 0
FOR AGAINST Dr Allinson None Mr Ashford Mr Baker Miss Bettison Mr Boot Mrs Caine Mr Callister Mr Cannan Mrs Corlett Mr Cregeen Mr Deputy Speaker Mr Harmer Mr Hooper Mr Malarkey Mr Moorhouse Mr Peake Mr Quayle Mr Shimmins Mr Skelly Mr Thomas
______1221 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
3120 The Deputy Speaker: Mr President, in the Keys, 20 for, and none against.
In the Council – Ayes 9, Noes 0
FOR AGAINST Miss August-Hanson None Mr Cretney Mr Crookall Mr Henderson The Lord Bishop Mrs Lord-Brennan Mrs Maska Mrs Poole-Wilson Mrs Sharpe
The President: And in Council, 9 for, and none against. The motion carries unanimously.
6. European Union and Trade Act 2019 – European Union and Trade Act 2019 (Deficiencies) (DEFA) (No. 3) Regulations 2019 approved
The Minister for Environment, Food and Agriculture to move:
That the European Union and Trade Act 2019 (Deficiencies) (DEFA) (No. 3) Regulations 2019 [SD No 2019/0140] [MEMO] be approved.
The President: Item 6, European Union and Trade Act 2019. Minister for Environment, Food and Agriculture to move, Mr Boot.
3125 The Minister for Environment, Food and Agriculture (Mr Boot): Thank you, Mr President. The Regulations before the Court have been drafted as part of my Department’s ongoing preparations for Exit Day. The principal purpose of these Regulations is to set out the amendments to 24 items of retained direct EU legislation ensuring such legislation is operable in Manx law on Exit Day. 3130 As there is a need to maintain regulatory alignment with the UK and the EU for trade purposes, these amendments have been derived from equivalent legislation that has been published in the UK. I would note that further regulations of this nature will be required in the future as a consequence of the UK’s ongoing publication of Brexit-related legislation. The amendments made by these Regulations are similar in effect to those amendments to 3135 retained direct EU legislation that were set out in the European Union and Trade Act 2019 (Deficiencies) (DEFA) (No. 2) Regulations 2019 approved at last month’s sitting of this Court. In drafting these Regulations, the opportunity has also been taken to make further amendments to the European Union and Trade Act 2019 (Retained Direct EU Legislation) (DEFA and OFT) Regulations 2019 – that is to say the ‘retention regulations’. These amendments 3140 enable the retention of an additional three items of EU fisheries legislation and, for the avoidance of doubt, clarify the EU law is to be construed and have effect subject to these retention regulations. Mr President, I beg to move that the European Union Trade Act 2019 (Deficiencies) (DEFA) (No. 3) Regulations 2019 be approved. 3145 Thank you.
The President: Hon. Member for Ayre and Michael.
______1222 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
Mr Baker: Thank you, President. 3150 I beg to second and reserve my remarks.
The President: Hon. Members, the motion is at Item 6. Those in favour, say aye; against, no. The ayes have it. The ayes have it.
7. Motor Vehicles (International Circulation) Act 1955 – Road Vehicles (International Circulation) (Amendment) Order 2019 approved
The Minister for Infrastructure to move:
That the Road Vehicles (International Circulation) (Amendment) Order 2019 [SD No 2019/0094] [MEMO] be approved.
The President: Item 7, Motor Vehicles (International Circulation) Act 1955, Minister for 3155 Infrastructure, Mr Harmer.
The Minister for Infrastructure (Mr Harmer): Thank you, Mr President. The Road Vehicles (International Circulation)(Amendment) Order 2019 introduces a change to the Road Vehicles (International Circulation) Order 2006 so that a one-year International 3160 Driving Permit (IDP) can be issued under the provisions of the Geneva Convention 1949; it further provides a change to the Road Vehicles (International Circulation) (Fees) Order 2013 so that the fee for the one-year IDP is set at £11. The reason for these changes follows a situation that occurred in Japan, where an Isle of Man driving licence holder was travelling with an IDP that had been issued for three years. The driver 3165 was stopped whilst the situation could be sorted out. The Japanese authorities kindly found a solution to the problem that allowed the driver to continue their journey. The Department has investigated this matter, sought legal advice and confirmed with the United Kingdom Department for Transport that an IDP issued under the provisions of the Geneva Convention 1949 can only be done so for a period of one year. 3170 The purpose of this Order is therefore to correct an error that occurred in 2012 when the legislation was changed, following a request to the Department to extend the issue of an IDP to more than one year. Investigations at that time appear to have confused the provisions of the Geneva Convention 1949 with those of the Vienna Convention 1968 to which the Isle of Man is not a signatory. The Vienna Convention allows an IDP to be issued for three years. 3175 In order to comply with our international obligations we need to amend the existing order. This Order therefore reinstates the provision that an IDP issued under the Geneva Convention 1949 can only be valid for one year and introduces a fee of £11. To summarise, the Order provides for a one year IDP to be issued under the Geneva Convention 1949 and introduces an £11 fee to cover the administration costs. 3180 As such, I commend the Order to the Court and I beg to move the motion standing in my name.
The President: Hon. Member of Council, Mrs Lord-Brennan.
3185 Mrs Lord-Brennan: Thank you, Mr President. I beg to second.
The President: Hon. Member for Douglas East, Miss Bettison.
______1223 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
3190 Miss Bettison: Thank you. I just wanted to ask one question of the Minister which was, had all those people who were contacted who had a three-year driving permit mistakenly issued, like I did – have they all now positively responded and accessed the Post Office and rectified that, or do we have people outstanding who may not have sought to rectify that situation of their own (A Member: 3195 Volition) design? Thank you.
The President: Mover to reply, Mr Harmer.
3200 The Minister: Thank you. I do not have that to hand, but I will assure the Member that we will look into that so those people have been informed.
The President: With that, then, at Item 7, the motion is that the Road Vehicles (International 3205 Circulation) (Amendment) Order be approved. Those in favour, say aye; against, no. The ayes have it. The ayes have it.
8. Inquiries (Evidence) Act 2003 – Port St Mary Village Commissioners’ reduction of elected members – Motion carried
The Minister for Infrastructure to move:
That the powers of the Inquiries (Evidence) Act 2003 shall be exercisable in relation to the inquiry into the proposal by Port St Mary Village Commissioners to reduce the number of elected members for the local authority from 9 members to 5 members, which is caused to be made by the Department of Infrastructure pursuant to section 9(5) of the Local Government Act 1985. [MEMO]
The President: Item 8, Inquiries (Evidence) Act, Minister for Infrastructure.
The Minister for Infrastructure (Mr Harmer): Mr President, as part of its duties and functions 3210 relating to local authorities, the Department is statutorily obliged to consider requests from local authorities wishing to alter the number of members of their local authority. Port St Mary Commissioners are proposing to reduce their membership from nine to five members. They have made a Scheme to this effect. The Scheme has been laid before this sitting of Tynwald. In order for the Scheme to come into effect an Order is required to be made by the 3215 Department, which brings the Scheme into operation. As part of the process for determining whether to make an Order the legislation requires that a public inquiry be held. This will give stakeholders and interested parties an opportunity to comment on the proposals. The purpose of this motion is to seek Tynwald’s approval so that the powers of the Inquiries 3220 (Evidence) Act 2003 can be used in relation to the required public inquiry. The motion, if approved, will empower the Chairman to require persons to attend the inquiry, to give evidence under oath and to produce documents relating to any matter in question at the inquiry. The provisions of the 2003 Act also offer any witness to the inquiry the same immunities and privileges as if he or she were a witness in civil proceedings before the High Court. 3225 This motion will also ensure that the proceedings are held in public and enable the Chairman to determine costs, and to attribute liability to meet the costs of the inquiry to any or all parties. ______1224 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
I understand that Port St Mary Commissioners have agreed that they would be willing to pay the bulk of the costs associated with the inquiry. After the inquiry, the Department will consider the Chairman’s report. Should the 3230 Department determine that an Order is made, the Order would be subject to the approval of Tynwald. Mr President, I beg to move the motion standing in my name.
The President: Hon. Member, Mr Moorhouse. 3235 Mr Moorhouse: Thank you, Mr President. I would like to second and reserve my remarks.
The President: The motion is set out at Item 8. Those in favour, say aye; against, no. The ayes 3240 have it. The ayes have it.
9. Local Government Act 1985 – Douglas (Alteration of Wards and Numbers of Members) Order 2019 approved
The Minister for Infrastructure to move:
That the Douglas (Alteration of Wards and Numbers of Members) Order 2019 [SD No 2019/0137] [MEMO] be approved.
The President: Item 9, Local Government Act, Minister for Infrastructure.
The Minister for Infrastructure (Mr Harmer): Mr President, as part of its duties and functions relating to local authorities, the Department is statutorily obliged to consider requests from local 3245 authorities wishing to alter the number and boundaries of their wards and/or the alteration of the number of members of the local authority. Douglas Corporation has approved the abolition of the existing wards within the Borough of Douglas and the creation of four new wards for the Borough. Three members are to be elected to each of the new wards. 3250 Douglas Corporation made a Scheme to this effect. In order for the Scheme to come into effect, an Order is required to be made by the Department which brings the Scheme into operation. As part of the process for determining whether to make an Order, the Local Government Act 1985 required the Department to hold a public inquiry. This was held on 13th December 3255 2018 and the Inquiry was chaired by Ms Sally Bolton of Corlett Bolton & Co Advocates. The Inquiry Chair produced a report recommending that the proposals by Douglas Corporation be accepted in full. The Department was happy to accept those findings and therefore my Department has drafted the Douglas (Alteration of Wards and Number of Members) Order 2019. Within this 3260 Order a minor amendment has been made to the Scheme which incorrectly labelled one of the new wards as West Ward – this should read as South Ward. Article 5 of this Order will amend this. This Order, if approved, means that the Douglas (Alteration of Wards and Number of Members Scheme 2018) as amended will have effect and come into operation on the day of 3265 election in 2020; however, in order to prepare for the election, the Order brings into effect the scheme on 12th April 2019 to allow the Corporation to carry out any necessary preliminary proceedings relating to the election of members. ______1225 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
I beg to move the motion standing in my name.
3270 The President: Hon. Member, Mr Moorhouse.
Mr Moorhouse: Thank you, Mr President. I would like to second.
3275 The President: Hon. Member of Council, Mr Cretney.
Mr Cretney: Yes, could I just for the record ask the Minister can he confirm that the wards, as they are, are to replicate seats to the House of Keys general elections in the Douglas area – the same boundaries? And, if that is the case, can I just also put on record how pleased I am that at 3280 long last we have got to this because this is something I suggested (Mr Malarkey: Hear, hear.) a very long time ago. Thank you.
The President: Hon. Member for Ramsey, Mr Hooper. 3285 Mr Hooper: Thank you, Mr President. Just two very brief questions for the Minister. The first is in respect of: if there is a casual vacancy between now and 2020 what is the situation going to be in Douglas? Will they be replacing the existing members? The previous Order that was brought made specific provision 3290 that that would not take place, that would not happen and there was not even a mention of casual vacancies in respect of the Douglas four wards. So just some clarity on that would be helpful. The second question I have for the Minister is: this is obviously the second of two Orders dealing with some rather piecemeal attempts at local authority reform. Does he have a slightly 3295 longer-term plan in place to deal with more comprehensive local authority reform as part of the remaining two years of this administration, or is he content to just leave it being done in a very slow, very piecemeal approach by individual local authorities? (Laughter)
The President: Mover to reply, Mr Harmer. 3300 The Minister: Thank you, Mr President. I can confirm yes, to the Hon. Member of Council. The casual vacancies, I will have to come back to the Member on that. There is a Local Transition Project that is underway. I know this is in co-operation with the rates, so hopefully we 3305 will see some positive change in the next couple of years. With that, I beg to move.
The President: I put the motion at Item 9, that the Douglas (Alteration of Wards and Numbers of Members) Order be approved. Those in favour, say aye; against, no. The ayes have 3310 it. The ayes have it.
______1226 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
10. European Union and Trade Act 2019 – European Union and Trade Act 2019 (Retained Direct EU Legislation) (Customs) (No.2) Regulations 2019 approved
The Minister for the Treasury to move:
That the European Union and Trade Act 2019 (Retained Direct EU Legislation) (Customs) (No.2) Regulations 2019 [SD No 2019/0138] [MEMO]be approved.
The President: Item 10, European Union and Trade Act, Minister for the Treasury.
The Minister for the Treasury (Mr Cannan): Thank you, Mr President. These Regulations made using powers contained in the European Union and Trade Act 2019 3315 prescribe one EU Regulation which forms part of Manx law on and after Exit Day in relation to Customs. This EU Regulation only came into effect in February 2019 and therefore was not included in regulations previously approved by this Court in March. In the ordinary course of events, Regulations under section 7 of the European Union and Trade Act 2019 are required to be approved by Tynwald before coming into operation. However, 3320 in this case the Council of Ministers was of the opinion that by reason of urgency it was necessary to make these Regulations under paragraph 7 of Schedule 4 to the Act and therefore subject to the affirmative Tynwald procedure. This ensured that the EU Regulation which is retained could operate effectively on Exit Day. The Regulations also specify the interpretation provisions to be applied when interpreting the 3325 prescribed EU legislation after Exit Day. These interpretation provisions may be enhanced or superseded by regulations made under section 12 of the European Union and Trade Act 2019. In addition, the Regulations also include a provision which provides that references to an annexe to the prescribed legislation are to be read as those annexes as they are amended from time to time. 3330 Mr President, I beg to move that the European Union and Trade Act 2019 (Retained Direct EU Legislation) (Customs) (No.2) Regulations 2019 be approved.
The President: Mr Peake, Hon. Member.
3335 Mr Peake: Thank you, Mr President. I beg to second.
The President: I put the motion as set out at Item 10. Those in favour, say aye; against, no. The ayes have it. The ayes have it.
11. Value Added Tax Act 1996 – Value Added Tax (Input Tax) (Specified Supplies) (Amendment) Order 2019 approved
The Minister for the Treasury to move:
That the Value Added Tax (Input Tax) (Specified Supplies) (Amendment) Order 2019 [SD No 2019/0118] [MEMO] be approved.
3340 The President: Item 11, Value Added Tax Act, Minister for the Treasury.
______1227 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
The Minister for the Treasury (Mr Cannan): Mr President, this Order amends the Value Added Tax (Input Tax) (Specified Supplies) Order 1999 of Tynwald analogous to amendments made to the corresponding legislation in the United Kingdom. 3345 Article 3 amends the 1999 Order by inserting a new section 3A which restricts the application of the 1999 Order. The provision ensures the input tax recovery is limited in the case of supplies of insurance intermediary services to cases where the final consumers of those services belong outside the Island or United Kingdom, as it was intended. These provisions are necessary to close down a VAT avoidance scheme which relies on VAT 3350 rules that allow recovery of exempt financial services supplies to recipients outside the European Union while the United Kingdom remains a member state. I beg to move.
The President: Mr Peake. 3355 Mr Peake: Thank you, Mr President. I beg to second.
The President: I put the motion as set out at Item 11. Those in favour, say aye; against, no. 3360 The ayes have it. The ayes have it.
12.-16. Customs and Excise Act 1993 – Taxation (Cross-Border Trade) Act 2018 (Application) Order 2019 approved; Customs and Excise Management Act 1986 – Customs and Excise Management Act 1986 (Amendment) Order 2019 approved; Value Added Tax Act 1996 – Value Added Tax Act 1996 (Amendment) Order 2019 approved; Customs and Excise Act 1986 – Customs and Excise Acts 1986 (Amendment) Order 2019 approved; Customs and Excise Act 1993 – Customs and Excise Acts (Application) (Amendment) Order 2019 approved
The Minister for the Treasury to move:
12. That the Taxation (Cross-Border Trade) Act 2018 (Application) Order 2019 [SD No 2019/0080] [MEMO] be approved. 13. That the Customs and Excise Management Act 1986 (Amendment) Order 2019 [SD No 2019/0081] [MEMO] be approved. 14. That the Value Added Tax Act 1996 (Amendment) Order 2019 [SD No 2019/0082] [MEMO] be approved. 15. That the Customs and Excise Acts 1986 (Amendment) Order 2019 [SD No 2019/0077] [MEMO] be approved. 16. That the Customs and Excise Acts (Application) (Amendment) Order 2019 [SD No 2019/0083] [MEMO] be approved.
The President: For the next Item, the Minister has asked that Items 12 to 16, inclusive, be debated together and voted on separately. Is that agreed, Hon. Members? (Members: Agreed.) Mr Cannan.
3365 The Minister for the Treasury (Mr Cannan): Mr President, the five Orders being moved today for approval relate to the withdrawal of the United Kingdom from the European Union in the ______1228 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
area of Customs. Once the UK is no longer a member state of the EU it will require domestic customs legislation to ensure, amongst other things, that the UK can: charge customs duties on goods, including on goods imported from the EU; define how goods will be classified based on 3370 their nature, origin and any other factor relevant to their treatment for customs purposes; establish a new customs tariff which sets out the applicable rate of import duty to be applied to imported goods; set out and vary rates of customs duty; and vary or suspend duty at import in certain circumstances. The Governments of the Isle of Man and the UK have a long-standing commitment, the 3375 Customs and Excise Agreement 1979, establishing a customs union which allows for the free movement of goods between the two territories. The Agreement imposes obligations on the Isle of Man Government to keep the laws relating to Customs, Excise and VAT correspondent to UK law. The Agreement was amended in November 2018 to take account of the UK’s withdrawal from the EU. 3380 When the UK leaves the EU and is no longer subject to the EU laws relating to customs, the Island must also introduce Manx Customs legislation which corresponds with the UK law. The new UK law relating to customs is the Taxation (Cross-border Trade) Act 2018 which introduces customs legislation into UK domestic law and also makes consequential amendments to other important UK Acts relating to the management of Customs, Excise and VAT. 3385 The five Orders in front of you either apply provisions of the UK Act to the Island, or they will make amendments to Acts of Tynwald relating to Customs, Excise and VAT which correspond to those amendments being made under the UK Act. These amendments are necessary to ensure that the Isle of Man Government continues to meet its obligations under the agreement. The provisions will have effect from exit day with the exception of provisions which allow for 3390 the Treasury to make regulations which are deemed to already have effect. I beg to move.
The President: Mr Peake.
3395 Mr Peake: Thank you, Mr President. I beg to second Items 12, 13, 14, 15 and 16.
The President: Hon. Members, would you allow that we take the vote in its entirety on the Orders as set at Items 12 to 16? (Members: Agreed) Those in favour of the Orders set out at 3400 Items 12 to 16 inclusive, say aye; against, no. The ayes have it.
A division was called for and electronic voting resulted as follows:
In the Keys – Ayes 20, Noes 0
FOR AGAINST Dr Allinson None Mr Ashford Mr Baker Miss Bettison Mr Boot Mrs Caine Mr Callister Mr Cannan Mrs Corlett Mr Cregeen Mr Deputy Speaker Mr Harmer Mr Hooper Mr Malarkey Mr Moorhouse ______1229 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
Mr Peake Mr Quayle Mr Shimmins Mr Skelly Mr Thomas
The Deputy Speaker: Mr President, in the Keys, 20 for, and none against.
In the Council – Ayes 9, Noes 0
FOR AGAINST Miss August-Hanson None Mr Cretney Mr Crookall Mr Henderson The Lord Bishop Mrs Lord-Brennan Mrs Maska Mrs Poole-Wilson Mrs Sharpe
The President: And in the Council 9 for, none against. The motion carries.
Announcement of Royal Assent – Ecclesiastical Jurisdiction and Care of Churches Measure (Isle of Man) 2018
The President: Hon. Members, I can announce that Royal Assent has today been given to the Ecclesiastical Jurisdiction and Care of Churches Measure (Isle of Man) 2018. (Interjections)
Thanks and good wishes to the Seneschal, Paul Dougherty
3405 The President: Hon. Members, before we conclude, having concluded the Order Paper, you will be aware that this is the last sitting of Tynwald to be attended by our Seneschal, Paul Dougherty. Paul has been our Seneschal for the last 10 years, having joined us in 2008. Some of you may wonder: what is a Seneschal? The dictionary defines a Seneschal as: ‘an officer having full charge of domestic arrangements, ceremonies, the administration of justice, 3410 etc. in the household of a mediaeval prince or dignitary; steward’. (Laughter.) For example, Sir Walter Scott is quoted as saying: ‘Seneschal, let our faithful yeoman have a cup of brandy; it will be more germain to the matter’. (Laughter) I am not sure about brandy but Paul, as our Seneschal – calm, unflappable, with meticulous attention to detail – has ensured that this building and the people working in it have run as a 3415 well-maintained and well-oiled machine. Always professional and ever-diplomatic, (The Deputy Speaker: Always diplomatic!) I think I, and many of us, have been grateful for the occasions on which he has poured oil on troubled waters! Paul has been good at his job and his love and respect for Tynwald as an institution has always shone through. We are very sorry to see you leave; you are leaving in a few weeks, you 3420 are moving on. But please take with you our sincere thanks for the way you have looked after us all in the last 10 years, and our very best wishes for the future.
Members: Hear, hear. ______1230 T136 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 9th APRIL 2019
Procedural
The President: Hon. Members, Council will now withdraw and leave the House of Keys to 3425 transact such business – (Interjections) Tynwald Paper No.2 has been laid.
The Clerk: I laid it at the start of the sitting.
3430 The President: It has been laid, Hon. Members. Thank you. The Council will now withdraw and leave the House of Keys to transact such business as the Deputy Speaker may place before it.
The Council withdrew.
House of Keys
The Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, there being no further business, the House now adjourns until our next sitting at 10.00 a.m. on Tuesday, 16th April in our own Chamber. Enjoy 3435 the rest of the day.
The House adjourned at 3.37 p.m.
______1231 T136