TELEVANGELIST SUMMARIES September 1986
PAT ROBERTSON Civil servants ...... 110 De-population of the West ....•••••....•...... •. lll Healing ...... •...•.•...... • 120-121 LEVIN, MICHAEL Women's rights •••...•...•...... •...... •...... 121 People For the American Way ...... •...•..•• l0?-109, 114-115 Philippines •...... •.•...... • 120 South Africa ...... 112, 121
JIMMY SWAGGART AIDS ...... 122 Catholicism ....•..•.••.•...•.•••...... 113, 122-123
JAMES KENNEDY Church-state separation ..•...... •. l04-106, 116-117, 118-120
DONAHUE WITH PAT ROBERTSON 9-29-86 TELEVANGELIST SUMMARIES September 1-15, 1986
Church and State JAMES KENNEDY ""I:2.<1£.L.~._~____ l!_q ___ p_?_r_t:.___ L!! __ J;Jl_
(AFTER QUOTING THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE ABOUT ALL MEN HAVING BEEN Q~-~AIE~ EQUAL WITH CERTAIN INALIENABLE RIGHTS): "Yov. notice, my friends, that it declares that they were created equal. It does not say that they emerged from the primordial slime equally. It does not say that they emerged from the primordial slime equally. It does not say that they evolved equally. But it says that they were created equal. !i. .£.\'! __g ___ ~-~---yj._j;_~~-~-Y--.A!!!P.QEJ; a p_!;_ __ f2L ..~.'2---~-g ___ !'_'?_':\J_j._;e_£?___ j;_~-~L1.!lL.Y~.!:.Y f.:_C2_\LQ_q_'!_i<_:i,Q_ll__gf_ __~!!!~I.:.:i,.C!f! __ .\'!_~_<:~ ___~_1!.:\oH ...~P..2.l! __th.~ __q_q_Q_q_\"J?L.th_~_t __ .\'!_\" __ h_.Y ___ g_9_2 and given by God certain in al ie nabl e rights. And tho:t governments were instituted merely to protect those rights w h i c h c a me f r om G o d • !i_L_§..9..!!!_\" ___ .Qg_g_9_§l_j;_§..Q_~_tt2.n ___ 2.L.. !!.!!!_:i,_Q_() ____ ~_g_ts!.!". ___ ~l!.2 1!!_'2..L\"_2_t!.L~_'2 __ _j._p____ ~_Q ___ §l_!l_£_j._~_!l_L_'2~_"!.1. ___ t\:l_~_!f__ ll~-.!L~-"--1'-'2.. ..A.l!AE!"_f!A!.>_l-_§. __ r.:i:_g_t!_t_'2.! The only rights which he has are those rights which the government may see fit to grant unto him, and those rights which are granted by governments may be withdrawn at their pleasure, and that is precisely the situation that exists in every atheistic, Communistic country in the world today. My friends, without a belief in a Creator, there are no absolute and i n a l i e n a b 1 e r i g h t s , t h e r e f o r e ~Y..\"I.:Y.. ___ ~_9_\!.9_()_1_ __g_L~_'2_'2!.:2.'2Jl! ..J:I_\:l_t9_\:l_ is ~-l!.
"And so, my friends, we see from our discoveries that the documents that formed this country, the ideals of those that framed them, the convictions of those that settled this land, all of the constitutions of the various states, the inaugurals of all of our Presidents, the statements of all of the constitutions of our fifty states, the inscriptions upon the monuments in our VOLUME 6, Issue 9 1September, 1986 104 nation's Capitol, unmistakably testified that l!!!_:i,_"! ___ L~----""--1)-~j;j._gJ.l \!}1_Q_~_r.. ___ Q_g_g_L __ f_Q_Q_t1_<:!_~_g___ _L9_!:'____ t_l)_~---_LI,l_!:'_j;_!l__~_r:_!_t)_g_ ___Q_f ____ t_J.:l_~----Q-g_~_P..§._l_ ___ ~_t)_Q____ t_h~ l£.!:..!!K<:!_«!I! ___gf_ __ g_t!_!: __ .\,_g_!:_<:! __ L~_"!_\!_~---~!!I.:L"!_i!_,_ "
"These and many others are examined by the Supreme Court of the United States back in 1892 and after examining these carefully in what is known as the Trinity decision, the Supreme Court of the United States reached this conclusion: "This is a religious people, this is a Christian nation." The abundance of documentary evidence clearly indicated that that was the only conclusion that could be reached."
"Indeed, there are organizations today of atheists and other unbelievers and separatists who would try to do exactly what the Communists ordered in that protocol, to get rid of every vestige of religion, to push the idea of the separation of Church and State, which, of course, is not found in the Constitution, that was taken from a private letter to the Danbury Baptists in 1802, eleven years after the First Amendment was passed, and it does not represent accurately what the First Amendment says, And, therefore, they want to push this to the extreme position and get rid of all of the Christian and religious foundations of this country. J;_~.!!!---~-l!F-_~ ___t.h_"!_l! __ i t: __ i_h~-R~QR.!e_E: __EQ_ll_ __'\:.!i._E: __ }!!:l_E:_I.!I_~AILJ'!AX_,_ ___~.Q::_~All~_g_. W:_~I.:-~ ___ j;_ he __ .Q_t1_~-~---li_Q_g ___ !/_~r._~___ .f.Q_\!.!}.Q._:i,E_g __ _1;_l!_il2 ___ _c_g_g~j;_.r_y___ tg_<:!AY ___ t_l]~_L_t)_9.1___ .Qp e "!Ll)_g_ 1 e --~-'L£!! __ .§_§._t1_tL~-~-t)_j;___ A~ ___ §l_u_ __ g_t:__!;_ll_~-~-~-_j_q_~-~-t_l_~ __ J.l_r____ "!_Q_9I.:_~_"! ___ !-_h.!!-_L.! l]_""-~---~-~l)_!;_j._QE_E!_st___ t_g_y_g_l,l ___ t_g_Q_§l_Y_o ___ \i..2.!!.l_<:! __ Q§. ___ f.2..t!_t_l_Q_ __ _:i,_t_l ___ .Q.\!J.: ___ Q_f!.H on_f!.! l!!'!...t:~c.L"!g_~~-----A.r!_<:! __ Y!'!.b.._i.h..~"!~--£-~-«.P..J._~ __gg ___t_l_q_t_,_ __.£_!!_<:! __ 1 e t...!I!!'!. ___"!AY.. __"!.I!;_f!l_t_l_,_ __d o t_l.Q_t __ _!:_~£.!:_~_"!..~-t1-L_t!!_~--~.!!!!'!...t:_:i,_c:Lf!_t1 ___\:!_"!Y~------'!:h_~ __ _r:_~_r:-~_"!_~t_l_t_"! __ _tg_t_f!_l. ___<:!_~.£.!'-Lt u r ~ t:J.:.Q!!! ___\;)>.§ ___ !!_~_t_()_r_:i,_~---~-~...!'.l:.J._9_?_t)___ .!!Ay_,__L~i_l.!_tg_\l___ i_"!)___ 9l_'§'_?_t:l:t_ __ j._p_g_j._ _c_§l_!-_~_f!. ___~ f!_l__l_ ___ g_f_ ___t!!_li! ___ g_g_g_l,l_~_ e n_j;.§_, __ _Jl._t_l_<:!__!l_~l}_ __ g_f_fi.c_j._.§'_llY.. ___"!..tAi_e d __ l>_L_!-_\l_~--~-l!.J2£_~!1!~ 9.. "I believe that the time is long passed for Christians to stand on their feet and say "Thus far and no farther." We have had e n o u g h o f t h i s • 1:1-~---9-~l)__ ..!.l o __l_o n.l!;§._r: __§ll_l o w ___.£_ u c_h..._jl_ _!!l..Q..Y_~-~_§_l}_j;__§l.§__t_\_l i s t_g_ ___r...!'_<:!_\!_.C_§. ___t_l]_L"!.. __ .e;_r:_~_tl ___!'!.~ t i _o n ___1!_9..._§1 __ ...§..!'!._~_\!L~!'...i_"!_L_h..,_!D_~ni_~U_q__,_ ~_t_l]_~_t'2..ti_~--~-gj;_EL_ w~5'X!'!._ALl. ___q.f __ Q_\!_r:._ __r_!_g_\_l_t_~--- a n_g___ f_!:§.~__cl..9 m;:; ___ AF-§. __ _r_~Q.t!_l}_e d tg___ .'2i..~Jl.J..Y.. _ _t_ll_~_\i_\l_i!l! __ _£f___!;_!?.§_ _§ t a _!;__.£_,_ ___ e i _t_l_l_~_r___ j;J.l__ __g_r~_t)_L_l!!!!'!.!l! ___ g_r:___t o W i i!!Q..r:_~~---tP e _m___ ~_"!.._l!_h_~--~-"!§. __ .fih " "My friends, the time has come for us to stand up to express our opinions, to make the facts known. I have shared with you today a great many pieces of evidence, a great many incontrovertible facts about the f ou n ding of this country. U ___ L~___ y_J:.j;_~;).____ i!h.§_\: __ ..t_\1...!' !!_<,?_g_p_:l-_§. ___ g_L_A~_!"_£L2_§l____ \!_t_l_g_~_!'_.'2_L~_l)_g ____ t_\l_~ ____ t_l_§l_t_g_rL_9L_g_l!F- ___b_E!X_t!-_?_fi.E!_, ____t.!1 e gg_<:)_l.oy __ L9_\!_t)_g_~tLC>J.l_'2___ 9_f___ j;_lf_j._~___ .£Q!lJ.l_t!..Y..!. I h o p e t h at many of you w i 11 get a copy of this material and that you will give this information to many of your friends who do not understand, who have been misled and brainwashed into believing the idea that this is a secular country, this is a godless nation, this is anything but a Christian nation. Let them see the facts, in order that the liberties and freedoms we enjoy might not be undermined by the secularists and humanists who would attempt to VOLUME 6, Issue 9 1September, 1986 105 destroy the religious foundation which made this nation great. God grant that we may have the courage to take a stand, while we still have a place to stand. May we pray?• "Heavenly Father, we thank Thee for the good and gracious men that left all behind in Europe and came and founded a new nation, a nation under God, a nation where Jesus Christ and His Gospel could have free sway, where the Word of truth might permeate every sphere of life, where young people might grow up to know the truth, to know there Divine Creator, who has endowed them wi t h i n a 1 i e n a b 1 e r i g h t s . J:A ...th ... ~...__!l_'? ______p_r_@._y___ th ... "!1 ...... t!!... §l... !:'... §l...... !l!A.Y.: ...... !? .. '? ...... E &.r: ... €?... 9-..Y...... l! ... !' .. ?.. k~ ..!l-~ ... !l.. &~--'·'-~-l_l_SL ...t ...!!2 ... L .. tt!.~_!?.. r.. .!-.. .!L~ ..ll2 .. L_&_!?.. ~J-.. L .. ?... !!!L.. 9.!U:.i.~... L!-_IU! (Q ..t!_llQA ..t_:i,Q_l}_~---~!...... th. ..~~---Il?-tiQ ..!l ...... ~-"!.Y.: ...... J~... EL ... !.: ..EL~..t ... QF_ELabortion, education issues, national defense, taxation, the family, things that are vital for you as Christian citizens and family members." 1... Q ...L~1.!1.!L_.2.::!l..::J3 6 PEOPLE FOR THE AMERICAN WAY NEWS SEGMENT narrated by Kathy Bullock: VOLUME 6, Issue 9 1September, 1986 106 "TV mogul Norman Lear's group PEOPLE FOR THE AMERICAN WAY escalated it's attack Tuesday against the religious and political beliefs of CBN' s Pat Robertson. Lear's organization released it's 25-page report entitled, "Pat Robertson: Extremist with a Baby Face." The report criticized Robertson's interpretation of Scripture and his belief in prayer. Later this month, Lear's group will show specially selected "700 CLUB" segments edited together in an effort to picture Robertson as an extremist. CBN officials are reviewing the reports and offer no comments at this time." IN THE STUDIO: DANU'l'A SODEHMAN "Why are they after you so doggedly? Why is Norman Lear's group so-- they seem to be so vicious.• HOBEHTSON "._Q_"!_\'1_"'1;_~_l ___ _f'!_~_r_II_I_"!_'l.. __ !;_~-~-'----'L'! ___ ~_\'l__ ~_t,!:!_~_:i,~_t,_. ______~_q_q ___ \1_~__ .Q.Q_~_~q-~_L_Q.~_U_~_y_L_:i,E ~_qy_ __ _r_ "If you want Archie Bunker running the country -- that's what they want and Mary Hartman, Mary Hartman and Hot'l Baltimore. If that's the kind of lifestyle we want for America, that's quote " t h e Am e r i c a n wa y • " 12_\!_L_~_l}_:i,_'? __ to_!)_:i__l)_g_ __ :i__;:;___ ?__ f_r~]l_Q]l_Li!!!L __g_r_QQ.£_,____l_q ___l!l.l' ~~-~i_f!!_~_t__:i,_Q_q_,__ __ _Q_~-~_i!_\!_'!_~---~J:!-~y_ ___~J__-~_:i,_!!! ___t__q ___l}_~y_-~ __ _g__2Q ___1;!:!.2-'!A_~_q__c_! __ _!!!~R-~£_'!_,__ _ _!;__!J~ ~-~y_-~ __ll_ "We had John Buchanan, the President of it, on the program, we gave him great courtesy." "But anyhow this is the kind of America, it's either going to be held by a radical fringe of fifteen per cent or so that• s represented by these poeple, or it'll be held by the mainstream of people who care about values but I tell you we make it tough for people to get into the process, we make it tough and the people need to understand that this is a very difficult way to go, it's a very unpleasant thing.• KINCHLOW "Well, it seems as though as long as you espouse certain popular, accepted, by these people, viewpoints, they never attack you. They encourage you, they say nice things about you, but it's almost as though they are the only ones who have a right to express an opinion, if you express a different opinion, then all of a sudden you're an extremist and you're a radical and you're, you know, right wing --" ROBEWrSON "Ben, what they want is a cnllectivist view of society. They want to take all religious vnlues essentially out of the public square. They don't want the idea that we would say, "in God we trust" on our coins, that's anathema. The idea that we would say, •one nation under God," when we say the pledge of allegiance to the flag, that's anathema to these people. They don't want that, the ACLU doesn't want that. They want to move us toward a collectivist, socialist model essentially undermining the free enterprise system. That's what they're against. That's waht Ronald Reagan stands for, these people are against. They have opposed time and time again his nominees for the courts, you know they came up against Daniel Manion, they came up strongly against Rehnquist, they came up against Scalia. Ronald Reagan was elected President, not Norman Lear! Norman Lear would never be elected president of anything where the people had a chance to vote for him." "[September 17] I'm going to clarify my position and that's why this broadside is coming right now, because they're trying to muddy the waters before I have a chance to get people of religious value to understand what I wnat to do. So please, be involved." "Constitution Hall on the anniversary, I might add, of the signing of the United States Constitution and at that time there will be an announcement. ROBERTSON: I couldn't ask for anything more than [prayer]. It's going to get very rough. I mean people VOLUME 6, Issue 9 1September, 1986 108 are -- it's almost pathological some of the hatred you know you remember the second Psalm, what it has to say, you know, how people are gathered together in a sense against the Lord and His Annointed. You know, they're talking about Jesus there, but I mean, it's as if there is a feeling, it's very hard to describe. But it's very dirty •.. • "I've never needed prayer any more in all my life. And it's the kind of thing that we've been through some rough times and it's something you don't want to do, you absolutely don't want to get into this arena. I suppose you can't have a victory without a battle ••. but in all seriousness, I need prayer and it's very difficult. But we shouldn't make, in this country, I don't think if somebody is considering, just contemplating -- that's all that I've ever done is contemplate --public service, to serve this people, why should people be so mean? Why should people be so vindictive?" "But it discourages good people from getting involved in the public process because there is such maliciousness. Maybe it's only a small group, but nevertheless it get's printed in the papers. n SCiDEHMAN •Well, it's intimidation. And intimidation then breeds fear and they're able to use fear to keep people at bay. And Jesus Christ won't stand for fear.• ROBERTSON "Well, I think that's it. But God's people have to understand that the enemy is the Father of Lies. That's pretty much it. But I wish you would pray .•• • KINCHLOW "One thing to remember is that there is also another law that exists which says the weak fall by the wayside and the strong will survive.• ROBEHTSON "The Bible says that no tongue that's raised against you in judgement shall prosper and every one -- I mean, no weapon formed against you will prosper and every tongue raised against you, Thou will condemn. That's the heritage of the servant of the Lord. It's a very good heritage." KINCHLOH "Alright. Let's join together in prayer: Father, we thank You so much for this matchless opportunity. l-Ie thank You for this great country where we can stand together and to do this. Lord, there are places in the world where we cannot, where people cannot stand together and agree publicly in prayer. And so we thank You for the liberty that we do have, Lord, that we can join together and pray. And we thank You that we have the authority that You've given us to come boldly to Your throne to find grace VOLUME 6, Issue 9 1September, 1986 109 to help in time of need. Now, Father, all things are, naked and open to You and You know the plots and the planes and You know the secret counsel of the enemies of righteousness. And we would pray now, Father, in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ that You would set Your protection, set Your angels, set Your anointing and Your protection around those who would enter into the desire to serve publicly the people of this nation. Lord, we ask a special blessing and protection on Pat as he considers these things and things are building up and happening. We ask in Jesus• name that You would demonstrate Your mighty power. Now, we bind up the strongmen and use favor and graciousness and anointing in Jesus' name. Thank You, Father, thank You, Lord, thank You in Jesus• name. Amen and amen." CIVIL SERVANTS: ROBEHTSON "There are many wonderful people in the government and those who are civil servants are obviously not all bad. Many of them are very dedicated people trying to do the best they can to serve this country. Some perhaps who are badly managed, but they're as fine a group of people as you• d find on the outside. They do get, in a sense, enmeshed in bureaucratic procedures. The thing we have to remember, though, is that official Washington, from the media all the way thr·ough to the Congress and all the real estate companies, those who lease offices, those who are involved in the financial structure of Washington profit enormously from a big government, the advertising space in the newspapers and on television is all dependent on the number of people there. And if the size of Washington is diminished, there will be tremendous commercial loss and so there is pressure by all of these interests on Congress to make sure that nothing is done that would in any way limit the size of government. There's a great deal of rhetoric, but nothing is ever done about it, because this would take the money away from all of that structure ..• that central core feeds on big government and consequently there has to be a Congress that is free and independent of those pressures, who read for example the Dallas papers or the Tulsa papers or the Miami paper or the Los Angeles paper and get the perspective of home town instead of Washington, otherwise we• 11 never see anything done on this major problem." 'lQQ ___Q!,_llJL9_-:9...::!i§ EDUCATION KINCHLOW "While more and more dollars are being spent in an effort to improve the nations educations system, more and more such school are being opened in protest of the failure of the public school system. Church schools are now challenging the state's right to set minimum educational standards and require certification of teachers." VOLUME 6, Issue 9 lSeptember, 1986 llO Bob Skolrood, President of National Legal Foundation: "We're talking about religious freedom and also the control of the educational process. The National Education Association and other groups want to control it exclusively and we should have free enterprise in our educational system, just as we have, say, of automobiles and appliances, because we know that that will correct itself in the market place. There ought to be the free market place -- we talk about education, academic freedom, and we talk about free exchange of ideas in the market place, we ought to be doing that in the school system as well. But when you get one system that says this is the way it's going to be and this is the only way it's going to be, that's terribly dangerous, this is typical of other countries but not typical of America in all of it's other facets." "Education is religious, you can't get away from it. I think most all of the experts will tell you that. So when you measure what we're trying to achieve by our education, when you take a look at the results in the private schools, much fewer teen-age pregnancies, much less crime, suicides, use of drugs, the whole bit, when you measuure it but those things as far as people functioning in today•s society, the private schools are way ahead of the public schools on the average." "If Scalia replaces Burger and is approved they're both conservatives -- and Rehnquist, of course is a conservative. But I think most liberals are concerned that Rehnquist right now is the brightest mind on the Court and that Scalia is anothmr bright mind and so the two brightest minds on the Court are going to be conservatives. And they both have the capability of forming a consensus, in other words, some of the swing votes, some of those that have not had the keel under them such as the liberals and the conservatives, I think they will be able to convince them that their position is the position that they ought to adopt." DE-POPULATION OF THE WEST ROBER'l'SON "What can we do to reverse [the trend towards negative population growth]? Because this is essentially genetic suicide. Sooner or later, I mean if the western nations come out with 4-1/2% of the world's population, they will begin to be totally insignificant." ALAN CAHLSON, Rockford Institute: "Well, there are some thing the government can do and I thing tax relief, massive tax relief focused on families keyed to number of children and age of children would be a major step in the right direction. More broadly, though, it's a cultural problem and a spiritual problem. I think one promising sign is that studies again and again show that religious people, people filled with the spirit of God have larger families, that's true of Jews, VOLUME 6, Issue 9 1September, 1986 111 Protestants and Catholics. So it may be oversimplifying, but to some degree simple evangelism will make a difference in the long run. n 'LQQ ___Q.!,__l!.!L9. . .::.l.1.::1Hi SOUTH AFRICA ROBER'I'SON "Ladies and gentlemen , this is a classic battle. We've seen it over and over again, as nations which favored the west have been underminded by our own government or by elements in this country and we have allowed them to fail. We have only to go back and look at the history of China and then look at certain Asian nations and then you look at what happened in the old days in the Congo and then you can see countries across our world, the latest of which was Nicaragua, where we have in a sense greased the skids under those that we said were corrupt or evil or oppressive right-wing -- we have given all kinds of names to them and we have undermined people who are the natural allies of the United States in favor of the establishment of a Communist regime, whether it was Batista in Cuba replaced by Fidel Castro, whether it was the Samozista regime in Nicaragua replaced by the Sandinistas, but in each case, dictatorship of the right has been replaced by totalitarianism, vicious totalitarianism of the left. And that is exactly what we're looking at here in South Africa, a country that is essentially democratic and moving away from apartheid as fast as it reasonably can ... we need to continue the pressure, we need the constructive engagement, we need to move that country away from these racial policies which are repugnant to all of us but we cannot afford to have the chrome and the platinum and the manganese and the other strategic minerals that are so vital to every car we drive, every airplane we fly, every bit of "high-tech" activity that fuel and supplies our war mach - war effort and put in the hands of the Soviet Union. It would be disastrous and the policy that is being pursued by many in Congress now is so short-sighted. We have to say "enough." We can't have another Cuba, we can't have another Nicaragua, and it seems that the long-range strategic interests of the United States have to come first in our foreign policy." VOLUME 6, Issue 9 lSeptember, 1986 112 JIMMY SWRGGART 9-7-86 Without tt1e Holy Ghost, there is little worship! I'm goinfJ to be tJllAnt. Go iY1to any chur!:h in the country that doesn 1 t believe in tt1e baptism in the ~ioly Ghost with tt1e evidence of s~Jeaking in other tongues and brother, you will be l1ard plJt to fir)d any kind o·f worship .. ~WithoLit the Holy Gt1ost, you don't know how to WOY'r.-=>h i p! You do·n' t kY•ow whi::\t wc!l·"sh i p is! ••• I mear-1, I' Vf:~ seer·, Catholics that never ~(new anything but the finger of prayer beads and get filled with the Holy Ghost and that hand will go in the a it" Rnd say "Ha 11 e 1 u.j ah, pt"a i se the Lc•r'd! 11 I have seer• my Baptist friends that specialize in not worshipping God, when they get filled with the Holy Ghost that hand will go in the air and !5<::\y Hallelujah, pY'aise the Y1arne of Jesus .. 11 You say, 'Jimmy Sw~g~Jart, now wa.it a minute now. Tt1at's just ~QY~ way of worship. Qy~§ is another way.' Honey, there aren't five ways, there §~§D~i three ways, there isn't but just one way of worship. 0 ThE~Y that wor'ship rne must wot.,ship r11e in spirit and in . 11 1 tl·"uth! ..... IYJy Bib·le dor.?sn' t say Jesus is commir·,H back sayi·ng ' Hai J. IYL:H"Y ~ .... II VOLUME 6, Issue 9 lSeptember, 1986 113 MEMORANDUM TO: Interested Staff FROM: Nac•rni DATE: 9-4-86 RE: Addendum to earlier memo on Pat's response to PFAW At the end of today's show, Pat and company expanded on their theme. • KINCHLOW: Speaking of prayer, as we were just talking a moment or two ago, earlier in the program about things that are going down, I .just t'eally felt like what we should de• is to have people around America join together to pray for you about some of the things that you will be going through and are happening right Y'10W. .',... ROBERTSON: I couldr-1' t ask fot"' ay-,yt.hir.g rnot"'e than that. It's going to get very rough. I mean people are-- it's almost patholc~gical some c~f: t_he ~att"'ed· _you _1:!::!~~~7~~,;-~,,b~·r"' the Sf?COY'1d P~alr~. what it has to say, yott know, how people are gathered tr·~1ether in a sense against the Lord ar1d His Annointed. You knc•w, they'r~e talking abc•ut Jesus there, but I mean, it's as if fhE!t~Eo 1s a feel1ng, it's ve·r''Y ha'r''d to desct... ibe. But it's ver--y dit'ty. KINCHLOW: Not only that, but I think for any Christian who is thing of g~tting involved in this or any person whose thinking of getting invo:•lved i~, the political thing. I think we ought tc. pray for those or if you're thinking about getting involved in public service of any way, people are not going to appreciate it. ROBERTSON: Well, I need it. I've never needed prayer any roare in all roy life. And it's the kind of thing that we've been through some rough tin1es and it's something you don't want to do, you absolutely don't war1t to get into this arena. I suppose you can't have a victory without a battle .•. but in all seriousr•ess, I need P'r''·ayet... and it's ve..---y difficult. But we shc,uldr•' t make, ir• this country, I don't think if somebody is considering, just conternplating --that's all that I've ever done is contemplate public service, to serve this people, why should people be so mean? Why should people be so vindictive? KINCHLOW: Well, everybody is not like that. I think the great majority of the American people are fair ar•d just and honest and ~ill listen and they are not like that. I think there is a small oligarchy, unelected, a small group of people who do have a specific agenda. But I believe the great majority of American public are willing to give a roan the benefit of the doubt and listen to what he has to say if they get a chance. ROBERTSON: But it discou~~ages good people fr--om getting involved in the public process because there is such maliciousness. Maybe it's only a small group, but nevertheless it get's printed in the papet"s. SODERMAN: Well, it's iYotimidation. And intimidation then breeds fear and they're able to use fear to keep people at bay. And ··Jesus Christ won't stand for fear. ROBERTSON: Well, I think that's it. But God's people have to understand that the enemy is the Fathe~ of Lies. That's pretty much it. But· I wish you wo•Jld pt"ay ••• KINCHLOW: One thing to remember is that there is also another law that exists which says the weak fall by the wayside and the strong will survive. ROBERTSON: The Bible says that no tongue that's raised against you in judgement shall prosper and every one -- I mean, no weapon formed against you will prosper and every tor.gue raised agair•st you, Thou will condemn. That's the heritage of the servant of the Lord. It's a very good heritage. KINCHLOW: Alright. Let's Join together in prayer: Father, we thank You so much for this matchless opportunity. We thank You for this great country where we can stand together and to do this. Lord, there are places in the world where we cannot, where people cannot stand together and agree publicly in prayer. And so we thank You for the liberty that we do have, Lord, that we can join together and pray. And we thank You that we have the authority that You've given us to come boldly to Your throne to find grace to help in time of need. Now, Father, all things are naked and open to You and You know the plots and the planes and You know the secret counsel of the enemies of righteousness. And we would pray now, Father, in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ that You would set Your protection, set Your angels, set Your anc,inting and Your protection around those who wc~uld enter into the desire to serve publicly the pec1ple of this nation. Lord, we ask a special blessing and protection on Pat as he considers these things and things are building up and happening. We ask in Jesus' name that You would demonstrate Your mighty power. Now, we bind up the strongmen and use favor and graciousness and anointing in Jesus' name. Thank You, Father, thank You, Lord, thank You in Jesus' name. Amen and amen. 115 MEMORANDUM TO: Interested Staff FROM: Naomi DATE: 9-11-86 RE: James Kennedy, 9-7-86 In his sermon entitled ''Church and State,'' James Kennedy made the following remarks: ''Do you not see that if man was not cr~eated by God, if r~ather~ he merely evolved .•• then he has no inalienable rights ... every school classroor~ which is undermining the concept of Creation is indeed undermining the basis of our liberties and our rights.'' ''···1~!!_ib~_§Yi~§n£§l_in~i~~i§§_ib~i-.ibi§_i§_§_n§ii£n_Mndgr_§Q~L fQYD~§d_fQ~_ibg_fy~tbg~ing_Qf_thg_§Q§Q§!_~n~_ib§_~iD9~QW_Qf_9Y~ bQ~~-J§§M§-~b~i§~L 11 ''Indeed, there are organizations today of atheists and other unbelievers and separatists who would try to do exactly what the Communists ordered ..• to get rid of every vestige of religion, to push the idea of the separation of Church and State, which, of course, is not found in the Constitution ••• !~OO_§~~§ __ ib§i_if_ib§ egQebg_EQB_IHg_e~gB!~8~-~8~L-§Q=~•l!§~L-~grg_tbg_QD§§_~hg_~grg fgyn~!og_tbi§_£9Mn1r~_ig~~~-ib~i_DQ~_Qn§_§!D9l§_§~£h_§~ntim§Di-~§ §!!_Qf_ib~§§_~Q~§D§_Q~_§£Q~§§_~h§~_!_b§Y§_m§DiiQD§d_tQ_~Q~-~Qd§~L ~QY!~_b§_fQYn~_iD_Q~~-D~i!2D~!_b§~ii~9@~--8D~--~§tL_tb§§§_Q§QR!§ ~Q_DQiL-~Dd_!§~_m§_.§~~-§Q§!DL_~Q_DQi_~§Q~§§§Dt._tb§_8m§~i£~D-~~~~ Ib§~-~@Q~§§§ni_§_iQi~!-~§Q§~iY~§_f~QOO_ib§_b!§iQ~!£_8m§~!£§D_~~~L i~bi£b_i§!_£!§§C!~_!ndi£~i§d __ b~_@!!_gf_tb§_~Q£~00§Di§1.-§D~-§Y§D Qff!£i~!!~_§i~i§~-b~_tb§ __ §YQC§ffi§_~QY~i_Qf_tb!§_!§nd~ __ b§i_yg_nQi b§_~§£§iY§~_@n~_fy~tb§~-~~-tb§m~~~~§_£~n_nQ_!Qnggr_~l1.2~_§Y~b--~ mQ~§ffi§Dt __ ~§_ibi§_iQ_r§~M£§_ihi§_9C§§t_n~~!2D-~Q-~_§§~Y1.~Ci§t§L bYW~Di§~i~L-~~b§!§i!£_§~§i§_~h§~§-~!l._Qf_Qyr_~!gb~§._~n~.-f~§?~QOO§ ~r~_r§~Y£§d_~Q_§img!~_ib§_~bim_gf_~b§_§i~t§L_§iib§~_tg __ g~~n~_th§m 2C-~Q-~i~b~C§~-~bgm_§§_~h§Y_§gg_fitLLL!t_!§_Yit§!_ih§t_tbg_g~QR!@ gf_8oo§~i£~_yn~§~§~~n~_ib§_D~~Y~§_Qf_QY~_b§r!t~g§L_tb§_gg~!~ fgyn~§t!9n§_Qf_ib!§_£QYnt~~~ I hope that many of you will get a copy of this Material and that you will give this information to many of your friends who do not understand, who ave been misled and brainwashed into believing the idea that this is a secular country, this is a godless nation, this is anything but a Christian nation. Let them see the facts, in order that the liberties and freedoms we enjoy might not be undermined by the secularists and humanists who would attempt to destroy the t''eligious four,datic•r• which made this Y"•atior• gt"'eat. God gt"aY",t that we may have the courage to take a stand, while we still have a place to stand. May we pray?'' 116 11 Heavenly Father., we thar1k Thee fc,r the goc1d ar1d gt"'acious mert that left all behind in Europe and came and founded a new nation., a nation under God., a nation where Jesus Christ and His Gospel could have free sway, where the Word of truth might permeate every sphere of life., where young people might grow up to know the truth, to know there Divine Creator, who has endowed them with inalienable rights. E§tbB~L-~§ __ Q~§~_tb§t_ib§~§-W§~-~§_§ QC§§~--§~§g~ning~~~Bn~_ib§i_th§_Q~igin§! __ gQ~!~-~n~_gbri§ii~n fQ~D~§iiQD§_Qf_tbi§_D§i!QD_ffi§~-~§_r§§iQ~§~_§D~_tb§i_!b9YL_Q_bQ~dL W§~_b§~§_!b~_c!gbifY!_Q!§~§_!D_§_~!i~_§§i_YQQD_§_b!!!L __ EQ~ J§§Y~~--§§b§L_§m§D• 11 It is vital for us as Christians to realize that these thing are happening because for too long Christians have opted out of the political pt"'ocess in America ••• This indeed is scar,dalous. It not only leaves the direction of our nation in the hands of ur,believers often hostile to religion in general and the Christian faith in particular, but it also violates the comrnaY1dment of Jesus for us to render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's. At the very least that means that we should get out ar.d exercise our franchise and vote as Christian citizer.s of this r,atior•••• Not only vote, vote ir.telliger.tly., ir• c't"'det"' to vote intelligently, you need to know what the issues are and you need to know where you Senators and CongressMen for whom you're voting, how they have voted. You need to know what their records are. Often they spend millions of dollars seeking your vote without ever telling you where they have stood on crucial issues. HERE REV. KENNEDY PROMOTES HIS BOOKLET "CONGRESSIONAL LEGISLATIVE VOTING RECOFWS, " DESIGNED TO 'EDUCATE' THE CHRIST IAN VOTER ABOUT HIS OR HER CONGRESSPERSON'S OR SENATOR'S VOTING RECORD ON SPECIFIC 'FAMILY' ISSUES. 117 CORAL RIDGE: MINISTRIES 9-21-86 JAM!i:S KENNEDY Chu~ch and State "The founders of this country 1·1ere imbued with a Bibl Lc,,l concept of government because there thundered forth form the pulpits of New England -- and indeed from all of the states -- the great teachings of the word of God concerning government. Today, however, I'm afraid that these pulpits have been mostly silenced about these things, and, consequently, whole generations have grown up without the foggiest idea of what God says about government, even, indeed, with the arrogant assumption that God has said nothing about government and indeed better not." ''They (the founders) knew, for example, that the Bible taught that man was basically evil and that he needed certain restraints and that government was therefore a necessary evil ... this viewpoint that man is evil and needs restraint has almost been obliterated today by the humanist teaching prevalent in ? "It was because of Biblical understanding of the sinful nature of man that the powers of the federal government were separated from the powers of the states and the powers given to the federal government are specifically and were limited. It was because of this same belief that even the powers of the federal government were divided into three parts, for example the legislative and the judicial, in order that no great amount of power might collect in one place. It was because of this same belief in the sinfulness of man and the need for his restraint and the corrupting power of sin that the Presidential veto was given to be an countecbalance to the Congress and the Congress was given the power to remove certain areas from the purview of the Supreme Court. All checks and balances because of the Biblical understanding of the sinfulness of man.'' ''A similar error today is that government is secular, that it has nothing to do with God and His word. Such a concept was totally alien to those that founded this country. The only secular state of which they had even heard was that which came about through the French Revolution, and this, to them, was a horrid debacle and a ter~ible tragedy and certainly they would never have thought of trying to emulate this abomination which had taken place in atheistic France. Our fathers on the other hand knew that they were establishing a nation under God, a nation where men had ~ights that were endowed by God. That is what they meant, and that Ls what we must hold onto 1;uday." ''With the advance of secular humanism and its virtual take-over of the public education in this country, secularism has more and more tried now to restrict even church schools and churches and 118 VOLUME 6, Issue 9 2September, 1986 every manifestation of the Christian religion. There are indeed literally hundreds of court cases going on across our land for our efforts to remove first one and then another and another and another vestige of Christianity in this country. We see situations in the past several years where church schools have been padlocked, even churches have been padlocked, pastors thrown into jail, even the parents of children have been thrown into jail for wanting their children to have a Christian education, where they have been forced by the state to attend schools where the basic tenets of their religion are mocked and ridiculed and denied." ''The Bible is full of benevolence, but it's not state benevolence, it's individual benevolence. The purpose of government is justice, not benevolence. Why is that?'' ''When that is done on a national level (taking from the 'haves' and giving to the 'have-nets'), then the government, instead of practicing justice which is to give everybody that which is his due, which is his right, government enters into the realm of injustice. Since government has nothing of its own, if it is to give something to somebody else, it must first of all take it from another party and therefore it enters into the realm of plunder. This is what soclalism really is, legali~ed plunder. Now, I think we need to have someone who has the courage to stand up and say that today that is preclsely what's happening in our country today. That is why there is so much clamor about government today, everybody is clamoring to get something out of the gave rnment." "Government benevolence is incredibly wasteful, ineffectual and harmful to any country ... socialism also is inherently atheistic. It views this life as all there is and therefore, man must not be allowed to fail in this life. And therefore he will be propped up at any cost since this is all there is. However, from a Christian point of view, this is just a short passage into eternity,this is a probationary period, here man is on trial and how he conducts his life here is going to determine something about hi.s l'?l; "Even social security, which held out such promise for the aged has proved a tragic deception and a lie to so many. Many people were led to believe that the government would take care of them in their old age and therefore they did not make provisions 119 VOLUME 6, Issue 9 2September, 1986 themselves. And consequently, they have come to the twilight yea~s of life and they have found that what the government is providing for them is very little indeed.'' "What a~e you doing? Are you r-unning to the trough demanding to get yours, asking for mor-e and more, scr-eaming if the government in an attempt to reduce deficits cuts off some program that gives par-t of that largess to you as long as we have that sor-t of an attitude, this nation is imper-iled. Is our- gover-nment a watchdog or a cow to be milked?'' "Because man basically is evil that an increasingly secularized and godless government is becoming increasingly a terror to good works. We've already mentioned how many hundreds of cases ~here are right now where Christian people who have simply tr-ied to live quiet and peaceable lives to bring thelr children up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord have been thrown into jail and harassed by the gover·umeot, a gover-nment that is determined to be sovereign over the church and over- God himself and will indeed brook no limitation what there powers I would ur-ge that all of you write to your- Congressmen and Senator-s and tell them that you oppose any legislation that would place the chur-ch or- chur-ch institutions under- the author-ity of the gover-nment. But since man is basically evil, we need to r-emember- that our- liber-ties, as fragile as they ar-e, ar-e only going to be our-s as a r-esult of continual and eter-nal vigilance.'' 700 Club 9-18-86 ROBERTSON Philippines ''They have been our friends and our allies and when they becarne a commonwealth, had commonwealth status to the United States, we essentially freed them from other people who put them in bondage. Since that time, of cour-se, they use American language, the English language with Amer-ican accents, their p~imar-y basic tongue is the Galag but the English, the American motion pictur-es, Amer-ican goods and styles ar-e ver-y str-ong in the Philippines, and we must do ever-ything we can to strengthen our relationship with them ... " ROBERTSON Healing ''Now, I believe without question that it's God's [per-fect plan that there be healing for everyone. I don't believe that God formed the universe sick and infirm. I can't conceive that when Jesus told us to pr-ay "Thy will be done on ear-th as it is in Heaven,'' that in Heaven we would have wheel chairs and crutches and pr-osthetic devices. I can't believe that's God's pe~fect will. Now, on this earth, we're deallng with imperfection and 120 VOLUME 6, Issue 9 2September, 1986 the question is, where nre we? Jesus, who was the full, perfect will of God, healed everyone who came to him for healing, but he was able to understand every spiritual problem they had, and he could deal with them. The trouble is, right now in our imperfect state, we can't." 700 CLUB 9-25-86 Women's Rights MICHAEL LE:VIN, Professor of Philosophy at City University of New York: ''Now, they tell girls, 'Look, you're not going to get a man. If you do get a man he's going to leave you, he's going to divorce you. That's why you should study to be a machinist or a computer technician.' They ceally are telling women that men are untrustworthy. It's sort of marl-hating of the sixties becOJDB institutionali%ed ... I very much doubt Lf the work place can really be arranged or re-arranged all that much. The fact is that men really are harder workers than women for various reasons and left to their own devices, bosses would always prefer to hire them. It's not unjust, it's just the way the world is.'' 700 CLUB 9-30-86 ROBERTSON South Africa ''Ladies and gentlemen ... though I personally am appalled at apartheid, I oppose it, it is repugnant to me and to any person who loves the relationship between men and women, black and white of all colors and all races, which we need to work for in this nation, nevertheless, the strident rhetoric seeking to undermine the government of South Africa is going to lead to tragedy in that region. There will be hundreds of thousands not only out of work, but killed. There will undoubtedly be civil war, there will undoubtedly be an attempt at a Marxist takeover, and what is a friendly government now will either be so hardened it will begin to move against its neighbors and against the United States, or, if it falls, we will find the strategic minerals of AfricA and the great trade route of the oil to Europe will now essentially be in the hands of the Marxists or Soviet allies. It will be a great tragedy. You won't see it in the next six or eight months, but it will happen and when it does, remember you were warned, and this country was warned here on this program.'' Jimmy Swaggart Ministries 9-21-86 SWAGGART 1 21 VOLUME 6, Issue 9 2September, 1986 its own lack of movement if 1~ does not ~ec~uit from o~hers that have already been b~ought to the Lord. So their message is not salvation ... their message ls deflnl~ely not the cross ... Today with all of this panoply of teaching, of the kingdom-age~s, the powe~ of positive thinki~g the pos~lbllity t~inking, the, psychology trip, the dom1n1on1 teach1ng, the k1ngdom teachLng, that has eliminated the cross and holds the word of God in less and less refute. There is more immorality today in Ch~istian ranks than its (sic) ever been before in the history of the Christian Church, simply because the teaching of the rapture, as given by this book the immorality is rife. Pastors are falling by the hundreds. Maybe I sound negative but I'm telling the truth and there are thousands of them, thousands of them who may not like to hear it, but thousands of them that are living in immo~ality right now. They're just not found out, but God knows ... and you'd better get ready for the rapture!'' A Study in the Word 9-;'5-85 SWAGGART Intolerance "A lot of you are listening to people ... you better be careful what you accept. 'Oh, I'll admit that don't sound right,' whatever that may be, 'but on the other hand, they'~e doing so much good.' I beg to disagree, The~e is no good being done, there is no good being done. Any time the devil does some little good humanitarian thing or whatever it may be to make himself look good, he's only making a big lie bigger. That's all he's doing, and as a child of God you'd better know this Book ... And you'd better know what you're listening to. You're flicking across the dial with your little clicker now, you mash the little button and the dial rolls aro,Jnd on the television set and you don't even have to get up from your chair any more and it runs across preacher after preacher after preacher. 'I wonder what he's saying.' Click. And it's so easy to get it and the devil is pumping it in like never before and I'm going to make a statement that's very blunt. If many churches went out of business tomorrow, the Devil would be very sorry. If many preachers-- I don't have to call names-- quit preaching tomorrow, Satan would be very sorry. If a lot of television ministries went defunct tomorrow, Satan would be very sorry.'' VOLUME 6, Issue 9 2September, 1986 AIDS ''AIDS is a result of man's sin. Sin carries death with it. The bible said the wages of sin is death. Men have become perverted, Let Jimmy Swaggart tell you this: I don't care what the doctors of philosophy say. I don't care what the brilliant men say. Homosexuality is a sin. It 1 s a perversion. In the eyes of God it is wrong. Only God can break that bondage." A Study in the Word 9-24-86 SWAGGART Catholics "The Vatican says this now and the Vatican ls doing this now and the Vatican is doing that now. Well, I hope the Vatican does well, I have no ill-will toward the Vatican. But it's of no concern to me, and I don't jump up and down with joy because some Cardinals issue out some encycl ia, or whatever you call the thing, stating something that I think they're leaning more toward us and I get all happy about it. And we'll take communion together because we are one in Christ, so I listened, I couldn't believe my ears, I was shocked, I don't hate Catholics, I don't hate anybody ... but ladies and gentlemen, the facts are these: there is no way absolutely no way Scripturally or Biblically that Catholics can take communion with Protestants and Protestants can take communion with Catholics. Say it again ... there's no way you can do it and be Scriptural, you can try to cover it with what you call love but it's not love its stupidity because the Catholics teach that there is salvation in the cup. This is what the whole thing is all about. This is what Martin Luther nailed his 95 theses to that door in Bitberg, Germany about. This is what gallons of blood has (sic) been spilled down through the centuries about, because we Protestants have said the just shall live, and said not by works, not by the cup, not by water baptism, not by infant baptism, not by the wafer, the Host, not by this and in the Catholic discipline it says that there is salvation in the cup and if you don't believe it, you are accursed. 11 "The main gospel of the dominion teaching and the kingdom-ager people is the unity of the Body. That is your main teaching. It has nothing to do with evangelization. Talking about paralyzing or crippling the church! They're not attempting to get people saved, if people get saved it's accidental. Or most of the tirne, the growth-- they get somebody I've gotten saved by the help and grace of God, or some other poor pastor worked and labored for, and pressured them into their teaching because that teaching ... will not garner new births and they cannot really survive on their own unless they parasite others and steal others because there is not evangelization to it ... so the only way for it to survive, like homosexuals, it has to recruit others from other ranks because it can't survive on its own. It'll die of 1 22 VOLUME 6, Issue 9 2September, 1986 ------..., _____ ·------4----- __ _. .. •, ·. o I I I\ DONAHUE 9-29-86 D: As you know, PEOPLE FOR THE AMERICAN WAY is on your case pretty good and they've got some things that you've said and let me just who this audience now, h ere ' sw hat you said ••• ROBERTSON: Phil, we've got a drug probelm, don't we? Fifty percent of the kids in hishg school are taking drugs right? They're selling drugs in the fourth grade, everybody's concerned about crack, everybody 's concerned about the break up of the home, we've got half of the marriages ending in divorce, we have a three hundred percent increase in psychiatric treatment of teen-agers in the last four years, s uicide among teens is the second largest cause of d eath in America and to say there is nothing wrong is shutting our eyes to the facts. Lets talk a bout men. Armand Nicolai, who is a professor at Harvard, brilliant man, has pointed out what happens to a kid in the prolonged absence of a father, more subject ot peer pressure, more subject to taking drugs, he's less of an achiever, he has less desire to achieve in society. Both parents are letting the kids down. Somebody has got to stay with ~t heir children. We ,are having a crisis, 1.2 million kids are runaways or throwaways in our society , we 've got a serious problem and Armand Nicolai says we are not adressin this because it will involve a change in our life style and as a result we are forfeiting the next generation. Children are our most precious treasure. We msut care for them ... of course, fathers have got to help in raising children! D: But you believe, as the Bible says, that the man is the h ead of the family. ROBERTSON: Well, there is one head of the Phil Donahue Show, right? D: Yeah -- we ll ROBERTSON: But, I mean seriously, though , and I'm the head of an organization, and there's one President of the United States a nd there's one governor of Georgia, you can't have multiple heads and so the family -- one person is supposed to be the head -- it's a partnership, my goodness. If I don't do sort of what my wife likes, I'm in seriou s trouble but I'm supposed to be the head. D: Wh at troubles people about that Biblic~ lly rooted tradition is that it breeds arrogance it -- you know, on Mother's Day, we say "Oh, well she really runs the place, but it's sort of a patronizing kind of parenth etical , passing reference to the woman and males take this sort of notion into their lives and I think often abuse this, when what we really need are co-parents. ROBERT SON: It's a partners hip. ·· ..... ~. D: That's not what that says, though. ROBERTSON: That isn't the case. You know, if you go back to the Bible, it indicates that woman came from the side of man, not from under his foot. And it's a partnership in life, obviously itis, that's the only concept that makes any sense is that two people join together in partnership for each other and for the good of their family. And you know. D: OK You want this to be a Christian nation. I really think youdo, Reverend Robertson, most of your statements ••. number one here,you really are terrified that the constitution will come into the hands of non-Christians and when you say that, you scare people. ROBERTSON: Let me quote, can I quote instead of PEOPLE FOR THE AMERICAN WAY for a change? John Adams, who was the President of the United States, wrote these words, and he said, ''We have no government armed with power, capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religous people. It is wholly inadequate for the government of any other.'' Now, I was paraphrasing that The PEOPLE FOR THE AMERICAN WAY made a big deal of it. I said it inartfully, I'll say it -- but I was trying to quote the second President who drafted it. He said -- D: He made no reference to any particular religion. ROBERTSON: No! "Moral and religious." And that is what I was trying to quote. And I quoted him inaccurately, so before you roll the tape. D: You take that back?! ROBERTSON: Well, I did because I was reading from the NEW YORK TIMES, where they put that in an ad in the paper. You know, PEOPLE FOR THE AMERICAN WAY is, they;re so friendly, and they buy big ads to D: Well. ROBERTSON: But this was -- they don't know government and the Constitution of this country. Phil, here's the idea about America. If we don't have self-restrained, moral people then we will have anarchy. Our government -- you cannot have freedom and self-government unless people have mbral self-restraint. If ~verybody.steals, ~f businessmen steal, if everybody cheats, lf there lS nowfaml~Y structure, if you have all of those things, then you are not golng to have a society that holds together. And that's what John Adams said and that's what I believe. The foundation of freedom is the moral self-restraint of the people and George Washington said it is impossible, reason and experience fo:bi? us to expect public morality in the absence of religious prlnclple. There has to be a deep-seated religious faith at the ~oundatio~ of ?ur society or you will not have mvrality which ln turn Wlll qlve you self-government. . -- ··-~· . --·-·- ... .__., .... ~· -~ ...... ·--·· ~ - __ ,., ___ •...... D: Except we have a country which does not oblige its citizens to belong to any religion. It's OK to be an atheist, it's OK to be an agnostic. ROBERTSON: Let me say this about -- George Gallup did a poll for us, he's done it for others. He said 94% of the American people believe in God, right now. Six percent are atheists. Now, I think the atheists should havethe right to print, to publish, to run for office, to run businesses, to have any citizenship right and to have no, in any way, problem or weight on them. But I don't think that the 94% of us who believe in God ahve any duty to dismantle our entire affirmation of faith in God to please 6% who don't believe in anything. D: They're not asking you to dismantle it. We're not asking you to. ROBERTSON: Well, they certainly are. There's a case here in Georgia right now about prayer in, you know, high school team praying about whether or not before they start a high school football game -- I used to pray. I was, when I went into a footba·rT·---g-.ii""irie--·;------you---c-an· ·get hurt-! And we used to pray,- I ------·-··--·-··--·-·--"'·--·---- played in prep-school up in Chatenooga. D: But it's -- I appreciate that-- you're going to -- you know, saying that you ought to be able to pray in the locker room is a little bit like kissing babies. But let's not lose the point here. Keeping religion out of the public affairs of the state and out of the schools enhances religion. It doesn't undermine it. It ensures that nobody with a brown shirt or with papers from the state will come and tell you what to say from your pulpit. ROBERTSON: For 150 years, we've had the Bible, we've had prayer, it wasn't anything so unusual that we should take away the manger scene in Pawtucket, Rhode Island. D: Do you want Hannukah candles too? ROBERTSON: Absolutely. D: How about the Ayatollah Khomeini? He wants a little religious symbol there too. ROBERTSON: Well, that's ••• D: "Well, th~t's .•• " Where do we stop and who decides. Please, as a graduate of law school, you have an obligation to answer that question where do we stop? Who doesn't get in? ROBERTSON: You stop at the same place -- D: George Gallup will tell us who isn't popular and those people won't get an icon. ROBERTSON: The question is whether you give a minority in society an absolute veto over the will of the majority. D: Yes, you do. That's the beautiful thing about it. ROBERTSON: No! You don't. You cannot run a society on a minority veto. You get somebody who doesn't believe in anything and let them control the majority. You can't do that. we believe in majority rule. D: There was a time when the majority of the people supported slavery and the Constitution was strong enough to say that's wrong. There was a time when the majority of the people in this country thought that women shouldn't vote. ROBERTSON: You're wrong on both of those issues. I'll tell you why you're wrong. The Supreme Court ruled in the Dred Scott decision that the Constitution upheld slavery. Abraham Lincoln would not go .. in favor of .that. He declined to support the Supreme Court decision in Dred Scott. And we reversed that and put ina Constitutional amendment. The same thing with women's suffrage. We had to put in a Constitutional amendment. But people said this part of the Constitution is wrong. Let's have an amendment. And if these other things are wrong and you want to change the First Amendment, put it out to the people and have the change of it. Don't let it be done by the Court, don't let the Constitution be amended continuously by 5 men on the Supreme Court. That's all I'm saying. D: You'd like to have eleven men on the Supreme Court. ROBERTSON: Not particularly. D: But you've said it's possible. I heard you go into that on your program. ROBERTSON: I merely said what the constitution says. D: Simple majority would allow it. ROBERTSON: In 1789, there were seven justices, then they went to nine, then they went to ten, then they came back to nine again. And Franklin Roosevelt said he wanted to pack the Courts. If you remember during the thirties, liberal Democrats, New Deal, and he wanted to put one new justice on for every justice over 70. And the country said 'no, we don't want to do this.' But the Congress has the power under the Constitution to do it with a simple majority. It's a Constitutional truth. I'm not advocating it, I'm merely saying what can be done. D: you'd like to abolish Social Security. ROBERTSON (takes a survey of the ages of the audience and· addresses those under 40): When you get to be 65, the truth is Social Security is not going to be enough money to take care of you. Wouldn't you rather have your own money, free from the vagaries of politics and that's all I'm saying is that it should be a compulsory extension of IRA's to allow the under forty, if we can work out the numbers. I don't know if it's possible, but for you all to have your own money when you get ready to retire and nobody is going to tell you you can't have it. That;s all I'm saying. D: Can Jews go to Heaven? ROBERTSON: Jews go to Heaven in relation to their own religion. And what does their religion say? It's very clear, they go to Heaven if they keep all the commandments of the Jewish law, ana if you go back into the Old Testament, you see that is was necessary in case they didn't to have animal sacrifice. That's what was set up in the Old Testament: •. AJ1.c1in accordancewith keeping all of their law, they are God's chosen people, there's no question about it. D: So you don't have to be a Christian to be right in God's eyes? ROBERTSON: In order to be right in God's eyes, you have to do what the Bible says and I might point out that the Biblical truth-- I'm a Christian minister and I'm not backing off of my Christian beliefs. If one is a politician or a ruler, if you will, or a servant of all the people in a political sense, it's totally different. I mean the tenets of Christianity, or the Catholic Church, the Protestant Church, are very clear, the tenets of Judaism are very clear. We work together as best we can with these various groups, but in the body politic we cannot take Christianity,owe cannot take Judaism, we cannot take any other religion and enforce it on everybody else. That's totally wrong, it's totally against the traditions of this (j nation. D: So you don't have to be bathed, necessarily, in the blood of our Savior, Jesus Christ, in order to go the Heaven. ROBERTSON: Phil, if you -- the position of all the churches is that there is salvation in none other, there's no other name given under Heaven whereby we must be saved than in Jesus Christ, That was said by Peter, who was considered by the Catholics, of which you are one, the first Pope. That was his word, and that's what we all believe. That's the nicene creed, the Apostle's creed and I'm not going to back off the beliefs of my faith. That's what we believe. Now the Jews have a little different deal. If they want to keep their law, if they want to fulfill the Covenant, if they want to have the sacrifices provided for in the book of Leviticus, then that is what's available for them. That's the way it is. D: Well, it sounds like you're saying two different ROBERTSON: Well, they're two different people, the Jews are special people, they·' re the chosen people of God, they've got a unique relationship with God. But Jesus Christ came, as you know, as the Jewish Messiah. AUDIENCE SHOUTS "NO" ROBERTSON: Well, I;m sorry, that's what he said he was, that's what -- the term Christ is the Greek for cristus. Cristus means annointed. It's a translation of the Hebrew word means. I'm sorry and so the Christian is somebody who follows the annointed one, namely, the Messiah of Israel. That's what the word means. D: Aren't you sorry you sent that letter to Norman Lear. ROBERTSON: Not,really. You know, Norman, Norman Lear, we've done incredible amounts of business with Norman Lear, Norman Lear is a TV/film producer and he was appearing on forty million TV sets around the country and we were down there in a little station, channel five in L.A., and he was trying to get us off the air. D: (Reads the May 13 letter to Norman Lear) Here's where we get to the nub of what it is that's very troubling to not a few Americans and that is your perception of yourself as on God's side. You not only talk to God but apparently God is talking back to you. And this circumstance has down through the ages led to some horribly arrogant behavior on the part of some messianic people. You must understand the concern that not a few Americans have about your statement that you are a prophet of God who has some sort of special relationship to Him. ROBERTSON: Let me address that. First of all, the word prophet means spokesman. There's a man in Atlanta, the Revernend Charles Stanley, who is pastor of the First Baptist Church and former head of the Southern Baptist Association -- 14 million members. One of his colleagues at his time of his election said Charles Stanley is God's prophet. The only thing it meant is he's a spokesman. I think every minister should be a spokesman of God. If he isn't, he shouldn't be in the ministry. And the idea of a secular TV producer, who is himself I believe an atheist or an agnostic, to take off the air a little religious program, when he is dominating with the thought processes with Archie Bunker, Mary Hartman, Mary Hartman, and that great classic Hot'l Baltimore, when he's doing that, why is he coming after me? D: Because he's concerned that you won't appoint people to the Supreme Court who may not be Christian. He's concerned that your people in your Cabinet will be chosen on the basis of religion. ROBERTSON: That has nothing to do with the Presidency. That was written five years ago or so when I was merely trying to keep my show on the air and he was merely trying to take it off. And I thought that was a bit one-sided for somebody who was at that time dominating prime time TV. D: Just one more, just one more. Hurricane Gloria is going to folow you for the rest of your life. Here's what you said. CLIPS ROBERTSON: Phil, let me ask you this. If your city was threatened by a tornado. D: I'd"be-oii mykflee"Ef;.;But I would not then go on television when the tornado , Thank God, didn't hit us and say that because I prayed, God listened to me, therefore I'm going to run for the Presidency. That's the difference. ROBERTSON: You reverse what I said. What I said was that if that if that thing demolished our town1 it was obvious that this whole thing was very foolish and I was going to get out. I don't want to do this. I don't want to do this. It's a very painful process being here and having to listen to all this isn't fun. D: Well, you know, I hope you know that'it's offered with the good will of -- ROBERTSON: I know, but here in Georgia, they had terrible draughts. The Governor of Georgia was in a Baptist church on his knees asking for rain. Two hours later, it rained, and everybody said God answered prayer. What is so strange about asking rain for farmers -- D: Nothing, nothing. But the Governor of Georgia is not going to present himself to the people of Georgia on the next election and say because God answered my prayers you ought ot re-elect me. ROBERTSON: Neither am I, neither am I. D: But it does sound to me as though you're saying because God answered, therefore that's your signal that you should run. ROBERTSON: No, it was going to be my signal to get out. Not to get in and there's a great deal of difference. That's what I said. That was our reporter by the way. D: OK. Your condition is that three million people would have to support you. I assume that calls and letters are coming in. ROBERTSON: Fantastic. D: You feel good about where you're at. ROBERTSON: Well, so far. I'm having support from all over the country. I mean, I probably have a hundred thousand signatures or so, right now. It's very encouraging. ON THE NATIONAL DEFENSE: The only way this country can ensure peace, through the history.of man as long as there are evil wicked people in the world who would like to suppress others, the only way we could ensure peace for all of us is through strength. And if the enemies of this country think that the President is weak, and they'll push every one of them, then they're going to do everything they can to take away the freedom of others. It's an extraordinarily difficult thing (to decide to go to war), but if you care about peace and you care for the people, you have to be willing to stand up to the Soviets and they have to be --you can't have an arsenal without the willingness to use it. ON HIS QUALIFICATIONS TO BE PRESIDENT: The three things that the American people are concernea about, number one, they want integrity, they want somebody who'll tell the truth and tell it like it is. That's the first thing. The second thing they want is intelligence. I had, of course, ten years of higher education. I might be the best educated President since woodrew Wilson. The third thing that people are concerned about is the ability to communicate and obviously I've been in television for 25 years. But the major role, according to Franklin Roosevelt, he said the principal task of the Presidency is more leadership. There is no job x anywhere that qualifies somebody to be President. There really isn't ••. so is there any experience that anybody can have? Not necessarily, but there's one thing that I haven't done, I haven't bought into any of those deals around the Potomac and almost everybody there is into them ••. I was in Arkansas the other day and a woman said, "Is there something funny in the water they drink up there that makes them all act the way they do?" This is a very important thing, somebody that owes no special obligation I to anybody. There's no special interest group anywhere that has any hold on me at all and so the question is can you I , represent the people? ON THE FREEDOM COUNCIL: D: You have raised a lot of money through your political arm, not to be confused with CBN. The Freedom Council -- people are able to contribute to the Freedom Council and deduct it as a contribution and this money was used to support political candidates, which is disallowed under the law. ROBERTSON: No. That's incorre't. It was used for education, for prayer and for action, and to mobilize Christian people in terms of religious freedom. It had a litigating arm. D: Was the Freedom Council money used in the Michigan effort? ROBERTSON: It was used to bring in Democrats and Republicans. D: It was not used for your candidacy? ROBERTSON: No, it wasn't used for my candidacy. When the time came to elect candidates, it was a political action committee. D: But the candidates that were being encouraged to take part in the Michigan democratic process were candidates who were wympathetic to your candidacy. ROBERTSON: Not necessarily. Some were and some weren't, perhaps they were, but -- D: But the point is they were candidates for a political office and obviously as a Yale law school graduate, this is disallowed under the law. ROBERTSON: No, no it's not, it's not disallowed. If I get to this audience right here and say you should run for city council in Atlanta, Atlanta needs better government and I would like to see six people out of your audience here run for office and I will give you the literature and the help of telling you how you can file for that office. Once you file, I'm out of it. That's all I did. D: But, Reverend Robertson, it strains credibility to suggest that the Freedom Council, which is an arm of yours, separate from CBN, would be used for some sort of wonderful, egalitarian democratic process; atheistic candidates would have no money from the Freedom Council. This is an organization to encourage candidates sympathetic to your politics. ROBERTSON: I want to re-state it again, It was to teach Christian people primarily and those who cared about judea Christian values, to teach them.how to get into the process. _,. ;.. ·_.:~.: .. :.i'.~.:LSS~:~.~~,-.~~. ·<:I<>- :.· .,:.. :(:\.>c· :;.:;\!~<,~·.r: .ii·~.;,.i_/J,;;:',)::·::;-:tt;,rtt~- :::-~ii0~"~:;;: :·>-- ~,:_:: ·_·-.;~:6) 't~--..~~c~,:~~:uf~~~;: ..., ..... ;, __ ;:~;~~~""~ ... ~'";_,;:.:,.:;...-,~-:.-~·.,j.. •.,_ .. ,._,_~:..:...: - \ It was an educational operation to say here's how you file a petition, here's what you do. But anybody, anywhere could have come to the schools, could have learned and it's no different from the educational arm of a hundred liberal organizations, and especially of the labor unions. It was an educational thing. ON SOUTH AFRICA AND APARTHEID: For the United States to give over South Africa, we will have no chrome, we will have none of the strategic minerals and every plane we build and . every car we drive, we will have to buy strategic minerals from the Soviet Union. And frankly, as much as I hate apartheid, and I applaud President Reagan's decision to veto sanctions. I think sanctions would have hurt the strategic interests of America. And he was very courageous to go against the political tide, because America is definitely for sanctions. So he went against the polls and he went against the public opinion on it. ON FAITH HEALING: I've never done that. I've primarily, we asked millions of people, I probably have one to two million people who pray wi thme and we believe in prayer and we've haa hundreds of-thousands of miracles, answers to prayer over t:he. _____ ,______years and it's been very gratifying. D: But you do claim to know that a person has been healed. ROBERTSON: I don't claim anything, we just do it. D: But !'ve seen you on television, Reverend Robertson saying that "she's in California and she's been healed." And I think how the Hell did he know that. ROBERTSON: Well, it doesn't come from Hell, Phil, I guarantee it ... get to the Bible, look at Paul's letter to the Corinthians, the first letter, the twelfth chapter and it outlines certain enablements of the Holy Spirit. And it's very orthodox, it's nothing that hasn't been practiced by the Church for years and-- D: If you claim to know that someone at a far distant point has been healed of a physical ailment, then we, then what makes people nervous is the feeling that your going to claim to know that Nicaragua has to be bombed. ROBERTSON: That's absurd. D: It is absurd? Why is it absurd? ROBERTSON: Well, I'm telling you it's absurd because we're seeing little people who are suffering. I talked to a lawyer in Little Rork. Arkansas, the other day and he came up up to me -- I've never seen him in my life --he said, "I worked for Teddy Kennedy in New Hampshire. During your ' program, my mother had had Parkinson's disease and during prayer she didn't have it any more. So what do you think about somebody that's had something like that? Ask them if this is a bad thing. I mean, is there something wrong with it? ON SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE: You know the Declaration of Independence? Let me quote it to you. "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men were endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights." Try this one on for size: We believe that all men are endowed by random chance with certain inalienable rights, it just doesn't play as well, All of our freedom depends on religion, on our belief in God, everything we've got. D: But evolution does not deny the existence of a Creator. ROBERTSON: I didn't say anything, but if you do not teach any form of creation, if there is no Creator, then we have no rights, according to our Constitution and our Declaration. ON POSSIBLE OPPONENTS: ------D: Would you identify Mario Cuomo as on the radical left? ROBERTSON: No, he's left of center, but he's not radical. D: What about Hart, Gary Hart. ROBERTSON: He's getting over more that way. ON A COMMENT THAT THE MONEY HE WILL SPEND ON RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT WOULD HELP THE YOUNG PEOPLE THAT HE IS SO CONCERNED WITH MORE THAN THE TRICKLE DOWN FROM HIS PRESIDENCY: Right now, we're educating ninety thousand illiterate Americans. We have operations in every major city in America with Operation Heads Up last year we fed, clothed and housed s;, million poor people and be,fore 1990, regardless of what I do, we will have educated 1.7 million illiterate Americans in our inner cities. So there's not going to be any diminution of the effort we're doing. I just wish the government would do as well. OM JEWS IN GOVERNEENT: They would be in the government (under my administration) because they're extraordinarily able people.