Monday, March 26, 1962 Chaitra 5, 1884(Saka)
LOK SABHA DEBATES
Second Series Volume LXI, 1961/1683-84 (Saka) ^
[March 12 to 26, 1961'Phalguna21 , 1883 to Ghaitra 5 , 1884 (Saka)] €
SIXTEENTHJSESSION, 1962/1883-84 (Saka) (Vol. L X I contains Nos.1 to 10)
LOK SABHA SECRETARIAT NEW DELHI CONTENTS [Second Series, Vol. LXI-March u to 2.6, I962.'Phalguna 2.1, 1883 to ClWtra 5, 1884 (Saka)]
CoLUMNS No. I-Monday, March 12., I962. IPhalpna 2.1, 1883 (Saka) Re. Motion for Adjournment President's Address-Laid on the Table 1-z6 President'. Assent to Bills 27-28 Papers !sid on the Table 28-37 Resignation by Members. 37 Bills introduced- (I) Constitution (Twelfth Amendment) Bill-Inti04uced 37 (il) Goa, Daman and Diu (Administration) Bill-Introduced 38 (iii) Advocates (Amendment) Bill-Introduced • 38-39 Statements regarding Ordinances 39-40 Daily Digest . 41-41 No. ,"-Tuesday, March 13, 1962. 1Phal,una 2.2., 1883 (Saka) Oral Answers to Questions- -Starred Questions Nos. I to IS 49-92. Written Answers to Questions- Starred Questions Nos. 16 to 18 92.-93 Unotarred Questions Nos. I to 16 93-104 Re. Motions for Adjournment 104-07, 107-08 Correction of Answers to a Question re. Casualties in Goa Operation 107 Papers laid on the Table loB-II Demands for Supplementary Grants-General, 1961-62. III Demands for Supplementary Grants-Railways, 1961-62. III Estimates Committee- Hundred and Forty-ninth Report . III Railway Budget, I962.-63-Presented III-18 State Financial Corporations (Amendment) Bill III...... 64 Motion to consider II 9-"57 Clauses 2. to 2. 3 and I 157...... 61 Motion to pass, as amended 16:z...... 64 Dock Workers (Regulation of Employment) Amendment Bill 164-97 Motion to conoide r 164-96 Clauses 2. to 7 and I 196-97 Motion to pass, as amended 197 Indian Railways (Second Amendment) Bill 197-2.12 Motion to consider 197-2.10 Clauses 2. to 6 and I :110-12 Motion to pass, as amended 2I2. Business Advisory Committee-- Sixty-eigbth Ropon 212 DaUyDigest '"13-18 iii 2.017 LSD 7. iv COLUMNS NO.3-Wednesday, March 14, I962iPiullpna 23. 1883 (Saka) Oral Answers to Questions-- ·Starred Questions Nos. 19 to 29 and 31 to 34 219-52 Written Answers to Questions-- Starred Questions Nos. 30 and 35 • 252-54 Unstarred Questions Nos. 17, 19 to 38 and 40 to 54 254-75 R,. Calling Attention to Matter of Urgent Public Importance 275 Papers laid on the Table 275-77 Committee on Private Members Bills and Resolutions-- Ninty-second Report Resignation of Members . . •. . Statement re. Strik6 in Heavy Electrical.Limited
Buainess Advisory Committee-c
Sixty-eighth Report 278--81 Constitution (Twelfth Amendment) Bill 281-327 Motion to consider 281-314 C1auaes 2, 3 and I 314-20 Motion to pass 320-27 Goa, Daman and Diu (Administration) Bill 32 7-83 Motion to consider 329-81 C1auaes 2 to II and I 382 Motion to pass 382-83 General Budget, I962-63-Presented 384-97 Finance Bill, 1962-Introduced 389 Daily Digest . 399-40 4
No. 4-Tlrursday, Marcil IS, I962'Plulltuna 24, 1883 (Saka)-
Oral Answers to Question- ·Starred Questions Nos. 36 to 43.46,47,49 to S2 and S6 to 58 Written Answers to Questions-- Starred Questions Nos. 44> 45, 48, 53 .54. '9 and 60 441-42 Unstarred Questions Nos. ss to 86 . 442-65 Papers laid on the Table 465-69 Opinions on Bills 469
Estimates Committee-
Hundred and Fifty-second Report 470
Bills Introduced-
I. Union Duties of Excise (Distribution) Bill 470-71 2. Estate Duty (Distribution) Bill • • 471 3. Additional Duties of Excise (Goods of Special Importance) Amendment Bill • 472 Motion on Addren by President .J472-622 Dally Digest . 623-28 v
COLUMNS , No. s-Priday. March 16. 1C}62'PhalfUIJIJ 25. 1883 (Saka~ Oral Answers to Questions- Starred Questions Nos. 63, 67. to 72. 74, 76, 77, 79. 81, 82, 61. 65. 64 and 73 Written Answers to Questions- Starred Questions Nos. 62, 66, 75. 78 and 80 • 665-69 Unstarred Que stions Nos. 87 to 121 669-88 Correction of Answers to U.S. Q. No. 13 dated 14-4-1960 688 Calling Attention to Matter of Urgent Public Importan~ Statement of ForeiKn Minister of Nepal alleging anti-Nepal Government activities as being directed from India Papers laid on the Table Public Accounts Committcc- Fourtietb Repon . • Estimates Committee- • Hundred and fiftieth Report 6C)6 Resignation of Members . 696-97 Business of tbe House 697-98 Motion on Address by President 698--'782 Resolution re. Compulsory Military Training-Witbdrawn 783-92 Committee on Private Members' Bills and Resolutions- Ninty-second Repon Resolution re. Social Service by University Students Business Advisory Committee- Sixty-nintb Report Daily Digest .
No.6-Monday. March 19. 1962 'Phalgrma 28. 1883 (Saka~ Oral Answers to Questions- Starred Questions Nos. 86. 88 to 92, 94. 95. 97 to 99. 101 and 102 Shan Notice Questions Nos. I and 2 Written Answers to Questions- Starred Questions Nos. 83 to 85, 87. 93. C}6 and 100 Unstarred Questions Nos. 122 to 148 Motions for Adjournment- Rail accidents Papers laid on the Table Opinions on Bill Estimates Committcc- Huildred and Fifty-seventb Repon 927 Public Accounts Committee- Forty-first Repon Reaignation of Members Business Advisory Committee- Sixty-ninth Repon . • •. / 928 Motion on Address by the President .''/ 928-53. )'003-31 Demanda for Supplementary Grants (General), 1961-62 953-1001 Appropriation Bill. lC}6z..-Introduced and Passed 1001-02 vi
CoLUMNS Union Duties of &cise (Distribution) Bill- . 1032-40 Motion to coDSider 1032-33 CIauaea 2 to 6 and 1 1033 Motion to paas 1033-40 Estate Duty (Distribution) Bi11-Considered and Paased 10 41-42 Additional Duties of Exeise (Goods of Special Importance) Amendment Bill 10
No. B-Priday, March 23, 1962/Chaitra 2, 1884 (Saka) Oral Answers to Questions- Starred Que.tions Nos. 130, 131, 133 to 135, 139 to 141, 144, 145, 147, 148 8Dcl ISO • 1281-1317 Written Answers to Questions- Starred Qucstions Nos. 132, 136 to 138, 142., 143, 146, 149 and 151 to 157 Unstarred Questions Nos. 197 to 218, 22.0 to 227 and 229 to :140 Motions for AdjollrDlOent- AUeged incid.nt at N:>rth Cochsr Hills, and alleged kidnapping of an Indian National by Pakistani Nationals ...... 1351-57 Calling Attention to Matter of Urgent Public Importance- Price of raW jute . 1357 Papera laid on the Table 1357-60 Meuage from Rajya Sabha 1361 Hindi Sahirya Sammelan Bill- Laid on the Table as passed by Rajya Sabha Estimates Committee- Hundred and Fifry-sixth Report 1)62 Apology by Shri A. Raghavao, Correspondent of the Blits: 136:1-63 Reaigoation of Members 1363-64 General Budget-General Discussion . 1364-1+1C vii
CoLUMNS
Consutution (Amendment) Bills-Withdrawn (Amendment oj Articles 226) by (i) Shri C.R. Pattabhi Raman and (ii) Shri C. R. Narasimhan}-
Motions for reference to Select Committee Daily Digest .
No. 9-)lt~rdlY, MJrch 24, 1962/Chaitra 3,1884 (Saka)
Oral Answers to Questions- Starred Questions Nos. 159, 160, 162, 164, 165, 169, 171, 173, 175, 177 to 179, 182,185 to 187 and 180 ...... 1471-1507 Written Answers to Questions- Starred Questions Nos. 158, 161, 163, 166 to 168, ~70, 172, 174, 176, 181, 183 and 184 . ('- 1508-16 Unstarred Questions 241 to 252 and 254 to 285 1516-42
Calling Attention to Matter of Urgent Public Importance- Introjuction of 'Incentive Money Scheme' in Telegraph Offices 1543-45 Papers laid on the Table 1545-47 Estimates Committee- Hundred and fifty-fifth, Hundred and fifey-eighth and Hundred and fifty-ninth Reports 1547-48 Business of the House 1548-49 General Budget-General Discussion 1549-1661, 1662-80 Message from the President 1661 Demands for Grants on Account, 1962-63 .1680-1714 Appropriation (Vote on Account) Bill-Introduced and Passed 1714-15 Finance Bill 1715-16 Motion to consider 1715- T 6 Daily Digest . 1717-22 No. Ie-Monday, March 26, I962/Chaitra 5, 1884 (Saka)
Oral Answers to Questions-
Starred Questions Nos. 188, 189, 196 to 199,213,200,212,214,220, 221,211,205 and 219 1723-55 Written Answers to Questions- Starred Questions Nos. 190 to 195, 201 to 204, 206 to 210 and 215 to 218 Unstarred Questions Nos. 286 to 335 Motions for Adjournment- I. Incident at North Cachar Hills .1798-1803 2. Karnafu1i Dam in Pakistan and its effect on Indian territory 1803-11 3. Oil agreement with Italian firm 18u-14 Papers laid on the Table 1814-18 Estimates Committee- Hundred and sixtieth, Hundred and sixty-first and Hundred and sixty-second Reports 1818 Finance Bill, 1962 1819-54 Motion to consider 1819-53 Clauses 2 to 4 and I -' 1853 Motion to pasa 1854 CoLUMNS Telqraph Wires (Un aWNI f'osSesslon) Amendment BDl J8S4-SS Motion to consider 1854 Clauses 2, 3 and 1 1854 Motion to pass, as amended r8ss Railway Budget-General Discussion .1856-19 18 Daily Digest . • 191!l--36
N.B.-The sign + marked above a name of a Member on Question. which were orally ar8- wered indicates that the Question was ac:tually asked on the floor of the House by that Member.
GIGlPND-L. S. 1I-20I7 (Ai) L. S. D--JS-4-69~.5. LOK SABHA DEBATES
1723 LOK SABRA this way on the border. And in any MOROOIl, March 26, 1962/ChaitTa 5, 1884 case they are too high for peace.-time (Saka) opera tions. Shri p. G. Deb.: Is it a fact that The Lok Sabha met at Eleven of the Pakistan exhibited the most modern Clock. supersonic American jet planes on the [MR. SPEAKER in the Chair] 23rd March in honour of Mrs. Kennedy? ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS Shri Krishna Menon: That i, ano· Air Space· Violation by Pald.taD ther question. '+ Shri A. M. Tariq: Could the hon. 0188. I Shri. P. G. Deb: Minister tell lhe House the make of \.. SIR. D. C. Sharma: this plane which was used by the Will the Minister of DefeaA:e be Pakistan Government and also whe- pleased 10 state: ther it is a fact that this plane was (a) whether a Pakistani aeroplane one of tho,e planes which the Ameri- violated the Indian territory on the can Government has given as aid to lZth December. 1961 neaT Ranbir- the Pakistan Government? singhpura; and Shri Krishna Menon: Yes, it was (b) if 1><1, the details of the incident? one of those sabre jets that Pakistan TIle MiD.is&er Of Defence (Shri have got. As regards the range, the KrIaIma MeBOR': (a) There was no range of every plane from Pakistan violation of Indian air space on the will get into India ,because it is the 11th December. There Was however neighbouring country. I do not know an intrusion into our air space on the what the meaning of the question is. 11th December py a Pekistan Jet Air- Whether we can get right back to the craft near Ranbirsinghpura. four corners of India, I cannot say. The jet aircraft flew from the direc- (b) A complaint of violation has tion of Sialkot and over our territory been lolged with the military observer towards Jammu. I think we knm... and his decision is awaited. what the type of the plane is, but SlId P. G. Deb: I would like to we have not seen the identification know why the Pakistan plane was marks. That is all that we can say. It not shot down just as Pakistan had is not a training plane or anything ot shot down the Indian jet plane about the kind, it is a fighter plane. three years back. Slui A. M. Tariq: Is it a fact that Sbri Krtsbaa ar-: First of all, there are no other ·planes except Mr. Speaker, unless you direct other- American planes with the Pakistan wise, this matter is ,before the viola- Government, and is it also a fact that tion authorities and I do not !mow before giving this aid to the Pakistan whether we should ·go into the details. Government the Government of the But as regards the general question, United States has given the assurance civilized countries do not shoot down that these planes and other things will an aeroplane at the first provocation not ·be used against India? If it is· .so, in peace time, and it is not the policy may I know if the Government Itt. of the Govermnent to shoot down India has pr-otested to the American planes which violate our air space in Government on this issue? 2017(Ai) IJ>--1. • Ora! Answers MARCH 26, 1962 Ora! Answers
8hri Krishna Menon: The first part Shri Krishna Menon: I have no de- of the question is answered by the sire to answer the question in the fact that we have registered a viola- same way as it is put. As usual, the tion with the military observer -we kernel of it has been taken off. I need not register a violation with the said that we will not shoot them in Pakistan Government at all. The se- the first instance. It is not the habit cond part of the question is a mat- of civilized countries in peace time ter that is not covered by this ques- to shoot a plane just because it flies tion. What America has said, the over your territory: you exhaust all world knows. America knows, and other methods. And the first method we know. But these are plane manu- is to register a violation with the factured in America which are in cease-fire authorities. We are there possession of the Pakistan Air Force. under certain international agree- They have violated our air space. ments and our business is to report to There is no doubt that they are the cease-fire authorities. And if tbey Pakistan planes. That is why we have say that is no violation, it is an end regi~tered a violation. of it. If they say that there is a viGla- tion, then we will see .whether we can Shri Hem Barua: May I know whe- do something else. I .would request the ther it is a fact that when it was whole of the answer may be taken brought to the notice of the Pakistan Into account and not a part as has Government that the United States been done. have given us an assurance that the arms and ammunition given by the Sbri Barish Chandra Mathur: We United States to Pakistan will not be have got U. N. Observers in Kashmir. used against us, the Pakistan autho- May I know what is their report in rities categorically stated that it is the matter and what action they have none of the business of the United taken in the matter? States as to how they use the arms and ammunition that they are getting; Shri Krishna Menon: That is what and, if that is so, may I know whe- have been keeping on saying. We ther this violation by an American have registered a violation with them. plane used by the Pakistan Govern- The proper procedure is that when- ment is a part of it or not? ever a violation, either by troopF. or by planes, takes place on the cease- Shri Krishna MenOll: Government fire line which is against the cease- hav~ to act according to certain pro- fire agreement, you register a com- cedures. In this mater the violation is plaint. It is called registering a viola- across the cease-fire line and there- tion. Then they investigate and either fore it is not with the Pakistan Go- they give violation against them or vernment that we talked: we talked against use, or they say there is DO with the cease-fire authorities. And violation. What follows if the viola- to do anything else would be impro- tion is against the Pakistan authori- per. So that is what we have done. ties I cannot say now, because the matter i"s under investigation. Shri Braj Raj Sin«b: The hon. the Defence Minister said just nOW that a Organised infiltration iDte AMam civilized country does not shoot down planes of other countries violating -1841. Shrimati Iia Palehoudhuri: its air space. In succession there have Will the Minister of B_ Mal1'II been air violations by Pakistani be pleased to state: planes, and also by our northern neighbour. China. Does the hon. (a) whether it is a fact that the Minister mean to say that never the Government of India have under planes shall be shot down, whatever their consideration a acbeme to brlq happens, whether they come in suc- under check organiSed infiltration Into cession or in great number? Assam; 1727 Orat Answers CHAITRA 5, 1884 (SAKA) Oral Answers
(b) i1 so, details thereof; and Shri Datar: I have got the figures (c) when it is likely to be finalised for the whole State. They show that and made effective? the Muslim population increased b,. 38:56 per cent during this ten-year 'J'he Minister of State in the Minis- period. try of Home Mairs (Shri B. N. Datar) (a) to (c). Attention is invited to the Shrimati Da Palehoudhuri: Is it a reply given to the Hon'lble Member's fact that the enumerators found it uDStarred question No. 154 'If':- ~~~ produce pre-fabricated low cost Shri Krls1ma Menon: We have said houses on a commercial scale; already that we have not gone IlIto (.b) if so. the principal features of the thing on a prodootion scale. I these houses; cannot speak for the HHF. But this is ·made of met,al and the HHF deals (c) what method has been adopted with concrete. kI make them non-conductive of heat and cold; Shri Warior: May I know whether the HAL is using its present capacity (d) the price at which these houses to produce these or has any extra would .be made available to the ulti- capacity to be added? mate consumer; and Sbri Krls1ma Menoa: It is using its (e) when they are expected to be present capacity. put on the market? ~~ ~ The Minister 01 DefelICe (8bri r..' .. r.... ,"'q iit.Ir KrIsIma Menoa): (a) Hindustan "'~ Aircraft Limited have built a pre- fabricated house which was exhibited *~t't '" ~ mfIit : ~ at the Indian Industries Fair. 1961. ftr..., 1PfT ~ iffif.I'''';- !i'IT ~ R; : No final decision has been taken re- prtUng ~ production on a commercial ('ti) ~ ~ f.. ~ .. f.. Qi(iiq acale. it;RW;;r)~~~~rftfi. (.b) The structure is based on the ~~fu1t..n'ilif ~ m~ principle of the ''MECHANO TYPE ifi1: Tf'IlT ~; KIT", which makes it possible for a f<:rIlT few persons to assemble and disassem- (..-) qft ~, <:rT ~ fuli b1ethe whole structure within a short ..n time. ~~ it! ~ 'fin' f"lICCf"llIl(01q 1\'mn-~~~~~~; (e) Walls are double panelled .;iih l1li. IIir gap in ,between to .provide the (~) ~ ~ ~ ~ffifl1 necessary insulation. f.. lIccf.. Q l(OIq "';-~a ..n Olfjif ~it ~~ (d) and (e). Do not arise in view of ~ ~~iR it~~..". (a) above. ~ ~ (b) if so, what are the details Mr. Speaker: Shrimati lla thereof; Palehoudhuri. Shrimatl Da Palehoudhuri: Ques- (c) whether any upward reVlSlon tion No. 205. of the pay scales of Jawam and other ranks is ,also under consideration ot Mr. Speaker: She also is not ex- Government; and pressing any apology. What is the caUSe of her absence? (d) if not, the reasons therefor? Shrimatl Da Palchoudhuri: There was an urgent call for me from s0me- The MiJlister of Defeuee (Shri body. I am very sorry. KrIsIma MeDon): (a) and (b). A statement is laid on the Table of the House. [See Appendix II, annexure ExpaDSion of Mqtstraey aDd. Poliee No. 12J. in DeJlIi ·205. Shrimati. Da PalchouI1huri: (c) No, Sir. Will the Minister of Dome AJrairs be pleased to state: (d) The pay scales of Jawaf&B and other ranks have already been im- (a) whether it is a fact that the proved sub9tantially under Govern.- Delhi Administration have put for- ment orders wth:ich were issued in ward a scheme to the Government of September, 1960 and which had re- India for expansion of Magistracy and trospective effect from 1st July, 1959. police force in the Union Territory of Delhi; SMi Balraj Madhok: Even though some pay-rise was made in the case (b) if so, the details thereof; and of Jawans, there is a lot of discontent among them particularly because of (e) the reaction of Government the great disparity that exists in the thereto? matter of pay-scales as between·the Jawans and the officers. May I know The MiJUster of state in the MiDis- if a proportionate increase in the try of Dome Mairs (Shri Datar): (a) pay-scales of Jawans is also contem- and (b). Delhi Administration's pro- plated? posals in this respect were received only very recently and are yet to be SlIri Krishna MenOR: We are not examined. aware of any discontent. But there will always be a disparity bet\veen (c) Does not arise. the pay-scales of Jawans and the ofllcers. Shrimati Da Palclloudhuri: !s it not a fact that out of the 50 magistrates, Shri Bal Raj Madhok: The disparity many are honorary magistrates end is too much; not that it will always henCe the work cannot be got through? be there. Shri Datar: There are 24 stipendiary Mr. Speaker: Can we go into this magistrates and 27 honorary magis- matter in the Questian Hour? trates. Shri Krishna Menon: I am in your handF, Sir. Shrimati. Da Palcbouclhuri: Is it not a fact that the Delhi Admillistration Mr. Speaker: It is not neceuaJ'T. has asked that unless the whole set-up The Defence Minister bas been re- is expanded, it will cause a disao;tr- turned to the House, but unfortunately aus e1ftct on the law and order situ- perhaPs the hon. Member has not been. ation in Delhi? • 1753 Oro.l AnstDers MARCH 26, 11162 O"ral Answers 1754 Sbri Datu: For a speedy d:isl.'osal appointed ·because of economy Ineai- of the pending cases, the Delhi Ad- ures or .because lOme patronage has to ministration has asked for the appoint- be extended to such peoplp.l ment of a number of stipendiary mag- istrates. We have received proposals Sbri Datu: They are appointed on only three days ago and the matter is account of a number of considerations. under examination. They carry on the work 'In the whole satisfactorily. They work tor three Shri Bal Raj Maclhok: What are the daYs in the week. quali1i.cations laid down for stipendi- Sbri Radha Raman: May lImo,," ary magistrates and honorary rnagis- whether these honorary magistrates trates? Should they he law gra- have got any specific term office duates! at to serve or they are r~ppc.intp.d Sbri Datu: So :tar as stipendiary every YllIU"? magistrates are concerned, the IJsual Shri Datar: Every year there is a qualifications as they are in U .P. and body that goes into tlle qua lifieations Punjab are followed. So far as and the work that is done by these honorary magistrates are concerned, people and then they (ire appointed. apeciftc qualifications have been laid down and there is a commJ.ttee which Pay Scales of Police Officers looks into their qualifications and their ability to dispose ,,, cases. '1'I1en + they are appointed. (Shri Balraj Madhok: ~Zl9. i Shri Assar: Mr. Speaker: His quc<;tion is whe- LShri Shiva Datt Upadhyaya: ther the persOn apPointed Ilhould bt: iii lsw graduate. Will the Minister of Rome Alfairs be pleased to state: Shri Datu: The stipendiary magis- trates are lsw graduates. In regard Assam and Punjab which have not Committee for Grading of Coal revised their own scales of pay. The details of the revised pay scales are -191. Shri D. C. Sharma: Will the given in the statement laid On the Minister of Steel, Mines and Fuel be Table. [Placed in Library. See No. pleased to state: LT-3606/62]. (a) whether the Committee appoin- Shri Bal Raj Madhok: Are the con- ted to evolve a scientific formula fOI stables given house allowance? grading of coal has submitted its re- pori; Shri Dalar: Yes; especially when (b) if so, the details thereof; and they are not provided with any Gov- ernment house. (c) if not, the progress made 3.' Shri C. D. PaDde: May I know whe- far? ther the scale of pay of IPS officers The Minister of Steel, Mines and also has been changed? Fuel (Sardar Swann Singh): (a) Shrl Datar. Yes; so far as IPS offi- No. cers are concerned, there is a proposal (.b) Does not ,arise. to consider whether the highest pay- scale that is now avaiLable should not (c) The matter is still under ex- be enhanced. That matter is under ammation by the Committee. consideration in consultation with. the Notified Areas UDder CrimiDaI Law State Governments. -192 Shri BIIakt Darshan: Will the Shrlmatl Da Palchoudhuri: Has the Minist~r of Home Mairs be pleased Government considered whether the to refer to the reply given to Starred pay-scales of the border outposts police Qu".sti~n No. 170 on the 23rd Novem- will be iIllcreased also, becalL~e their ber, 1961 and state: conditions are very difficult? (a) the decision .taken in regard to Shri Dalar: That is a different quu- the question of declaring certain areas tion. This relates to the police in on the northern border as notified general. So far as border I)utposts areas under Section S of Criminal are concerned. there was one question Law (Amendment) Act, 1961; and Wihich I answered today. I believe allowances also ,are allowed to them (b) if no decision has been taken for carrying On their work in such 110 far, the reasons for the delay in distant areas. this matter? The Minister of Home Mairs (Shri LaI Bahadur Shastri): (a) and (b). WRITTEN ANSWERS TO QUES- The notifications declaring certain TIONS areas in Uttar Pradesh, West Bengal and HimaclI.al Pradesh as notified Branch of Law Ministry in ~Iadras areas under section S of the Criminal Law Amendment Act, 1961, are under -190. Shri P. C. a-h: Will the Minister of Law be pleased to state: issue. (a) whether Government have been considering the possibility 01 estab- ~ IIiTIf' iW ~ ~ '" lishing a branch of the Ministry in *te.ll. -nltll'fmi;r : m~...mt Madras; and ~'lit II i!~, ~ t ~ ~ • arrtf.t;(f (b) if so, what is ,the decision? ~~ tlS o .~iW~ifq~ The Depaty Mbdster of Law (Shrl iR!R~~~~fir;: E. M. llajamavis): (a) Yes. (b) No decision has so far been (~)~~~~ reached. tt~t ~trrU ~ .~~~ 2017 (Ai) LS-2.. 1757 Written AnsweTs MARCH 26, 1962 WTitten AnsweTs il1~~;tt~~,..~ recommendation, the Government of India has brought this recommend- ~ !Wo'f 'f<: ~ m if fif';m: f.t;lrr ;;rr ation to their notice. 'IT, ~ am: it 'flIT ~ f.t;lrr ttliT L~ ElectiOD Espem;es in On- *194. Shri B. C. MulUck: Will the (\!r) lIR ~ ~ ~ ;r@' ~ Minister of Law be pleased to state: sultants enVlisages a plant with a capa- The MiniRer of Education (Dr. city of 21,000 metric tons of electroly- It. L. Shrimali)' (a). Yes, Sir. tic copper ,per annum. According (b) to (d). Only one complaint of to the time schedule given in the Pro- this nature has been received in this ject Report, the plant is likely to come Ministry which is being investigated. into full production early in 1965. The complaint relates to Ram Roop The Project Report is under consider- Vidya Mandir Higher Secondary ation. school. The Delhi Administration Low Cost Car is, however, making detailed en- *ZOl. Shri Ram Krishan Gupta: quiries to find out whether any other Will the Minister of Defence be school management has violated pleased to state: these orders. (a) whether it is a fact that Hindu- Aid to Students of Delhi Schools stan Aircraft Ltd. has completed .Z03. Shri Ram Garib: Will the work on the prototype of a low cost Minister of Education be pleased to car; state: (b) if so, whether it has been put (a) whether there is any scheme on trial; and or provIsion according to which students who secure good positions in (c) the result thereof? their classes in the Government The Minister of Defence (Shri run/aided schools in Delhi/New KrisIma Menon): (a) to (c). Hindus- Delhi get some financial assistance; tan Aircraft Limited undertook work (b) if so, what is that scheme; and on a low cost car as a study project, and the work thereon is continuing. (c) if the answer to part (a) be Consequently it is premature to as- in the negative, whether Govern- sess the result. ment propose to introduce any such scheme to encourage brilliant stu- Staft of Delhi Aided Schools dents specially belonging to poor *202. Shri T. B. Vittal Rao: Will families? the Minister of Education be pleas- The MlDis&er of Education (Dr. ed to state: K. L. Shrimali): (a) to (c). There is (a) whether it is a fact that the a sCholarship scheme under which Director of Education (Delhi State) scholarships are awarded on the re- in his letter No. F.6(47)j61-Edn.. sult of a competitive examination at dated the 4th October, 1961 addres- the end of Class V and Class VIII. sed to the President, Delhi School Only those students who secure the Managers Association, Delhi has first three positions in the annual stated that the condition of termina- class promotion examinations of tion of services of the staff in aided Classes V & VIII in the various schools during the period of proba- schools are eligible to appear at the tion with the prior approval of the competitive examinafiions. These department should remain operative scholarships are renewable for three as hithertofore; years subject to satisfactory progress of the awardees. (,b) whether it is also a fact that in some aided schools this rule has been Oil Exploration in U.P. violated; . *204. Shri P. G. Deb: Will the (c) whether Government have Minister of Steel, Mines and Fuel made enquiries into such cases of be pleased to state: irregularities; and (a) whether any contract has been (d) if so, the names of the schools signed with a foreign company for where this rule is violated? oil exploration ·work in UP.; and Written Answers MARCH 26, 1962 Written Answers (b) it so, on what terms? ~~;qm~ 1'he Minister of Mines and Oil *~oc;. 11ft ~~ .: ;m f~ (Shrl IL D. Malaviya): (a). No, Sir. ~ c;~, ~tf,~~~ (h) Does not arise. ~ ~ ~f,~~iIi"~iIi"~it ~~'!iTi"TI~~: (~) ~~~iIi"mit *206. Shri P. C. Borooah: Will the Minister of Defence be pleased to ;;rt;J ~ (c) and (d). HF-24 is now power- ~it;~~~ ed by Orpheus Siddeley engies of British design but being built in *~ot. ~ lfIrr~, India. finmf flN : wr-f .m: iq;r~~~ ~ '!iT fi'lT ~ British Credit for Coal Indlllltry f.Ii: • 20'7. Shrl D. C. Sharma: Will the (~) ;m ~ " ~ f.Ii "iIrof~;m: . Minister of Steel, aDd Fuel be Mines it;rom:r~~~ pleased to state: ~~~'5IRfa.r'IiT~iIi"~ (a) whether any British credit for it ~ ~ fif;Irr ~ ; coal industry has .been received; and (b) if so, the details tihereof? (I.'\") ~ ~, eft ~ 'liT ri ;m~; ~ The Minister of Steel, Mines and Fuel (Sardar Swaran Singh): (a) and Col ~ 'I'iT IflIT 0IiIf (b). There 1S no specific British cre- (tT) m dit for coal industry. There is, how- ~? ever, an allocatiOn of Rs. 1.44 crores .. tor Ropeways for Area 'D' of Jharia wr-f m trw .m (11ft ~ '" Coalfield and of Rs. 0.92 crores for '"~): (iii) ;;IT ~ I Bhojudih Coal Washery from out of the U.K. credit of £30 million. ('!f) ~ ~ ~ '3OOT I 1763 Written AnsweTB CHAITRA 5,1884 (SAKA) Written AnBWeTB 1764 (~) ~ w..- ~ 'In""'!II"'I'" ('b) if so, the action taken thereon? 6TU ~ ~ ( crude oil) if>'t ~ The MiDister 01 Education (Dr. K. L. ShrimaIi): (a) and (b). Shri ~ 'liT Ci1" 'liT G;flf ~ • 'I1lI' 5ffir C. D. Deshmukh, Vice-Chancellor of ~~~I Delhi University expressed his per- sonal opinion to this effect at a func- ADoy aDd Special Tool Plant tion. It is for the Vice-Chancellor °Zle. Shri Monrka: Will the Minis- to take up the matter formally with ter of Steel, M'1JIIeS aDd Fuel be the appropriate Body of the Univer- pleased to state: sity after giving due consideration to all its aspects. (a) the progress made SO far in the establishment of alloy and special JuniOr Stair Councils tool plant; ·ZI6. Shri P. C. Borooah: Will the (b) when production is expected Minister of Home Affairs be pleas- to start; and ed to state: (e) what are the different products (al in how many cases the Junior which will be manufactured first? Staff Councils in the various depart- ments of Government resigned en The MinIster Of steel, M;ines IIDcI bloc before the expiry ·of their term Fuel (Sa.nlar SWarail SlDc'h): (a) of office since the institution of such Preliminary work connected with the councils; acquisition of land has already been undertaken. Site levelling work, (bl what were the reasons for their construction of perimeter wall, shop resignation; and offices and site offices have started. Tenders for most of the civil engi- (cl whether the reason in general neering works have been released was the alle~ed ineffectiveness of and some of them are in the process such councils, if so what action has of being finalised. The tender speci- been taken to re~der them more fication for the supply of plant "lnd efi'ective? equipment are ibeing finalise.d and the tenders are expected to be called forO The Minister in Ministry of Home shortly. Affairs (Sbri B. N. Datar): (a) Ac- cording to the available information, (b) By 1965-66. there is no such case. (c) The product-mix of the plant will cover the complete range of tool, (b) and (c). Do not arise. alloy and special steels. About one- half of the initial output will be in ~ ftmT (lir)~~, alw-rnmfiT'4>'T (b) Yes. fuli if -rn 'R '4>'T tit lfiTIi (ib) how much of it· would be re- ~~; ~ fined at Nunmati and Barauni; and (if) ~ i!iT ~ ijql''Il(q''l''l (c) where would the remaining oil it~W:a;f~'4>'T~l/T be refined? mnm- iflIT ~ f;r;!it ~ it f.:ri41vtT '4>'T The Minister of Mines aDd Oil ~'R~~~nrnw~? (Shri K. D. Malavtya): (a) About 0.5 million tonnes during 1961. flri''!I' ~ ('" ~m) : (b) About 60,000 tonnes would be (~) ~ (lir). ~ f'cN1;f ~ refined at Nunmati. Barauni refin- ~ ~ ~ ~ ij;o '3",;'1<:'11(1 if ery is not yet ready to receive crude ~~~'4>'T~~~ oil. wWr ~ ~ ~ srr<=a ~ v:fT f;;mlt (c) The balance crude oil produced. during 1961 was refined by the Digboi ~ m<:'\q- "I1fTlIT iflIT ¥:IT fit; ~ refinery and Burmah-Shell refinery q<{INifll(l i'r ~ ;rum ~ ~ '4>'T at Bombay. ~ ~ ~ it Wtifl''1fif",f ~il>'~~'IiT~'R~ The MinIster of Defence (Shri KrIshna Menon): (a) A lum sum 3IlTe ~ 'l1:IT I it grant of Rs. 10,000 and not an ad- vance was paid to Commander Nana- Foreicn Exchange Bolding of Orissa vati as a measure of financial as- Chief Minister sistance to enable him to arrange his 288. Shri P. G. Deb: Will the legal defence. Minister of Finance be pleased to state: (b) Does not arise. (a) whether the enquiry into the Manufacture of Air Defence Radar foreign exchange holding of the SefB Chief Minister of Orissa has been completed; and Z91. Shrimati na Pa1ehoudhuri: Will the Minister of Defence be (b) if so, the details thereof? pleased to state: The Minister of Finance (Shri Morarjl Desai): (a) The Honourable (a) whether it is a fact that deve- Member seems to have in mind the lopment and manufacture of air de- case referred to in the reply given on fence radar sets are being under- the 30th November, 1961 to Lok taken by one of the units of the Sabha Starred Question No. 433 by Maintenance Command of the Indian Shri Ram Krishan Gupta and others. Air Force; and That matter is still under investiga- tion. (,b) if so, progress made in con- nection therewith? (b) Does not arise. The iMinister of Defeace (Shri Mines in Maharashtra Krishna Menon): (a) Radar equip- ment in full or in part have been Z89. Shri P. G. Deb: Will the Minis- under development; ter of Steel, Mines and Fuel be pleased to state: (b) It is not in the public interest to give any more information. (a) whether it is a fact that the Maharashtra Government had dis- Rebate on Income Tn for Export puted the right of Centre to work Promotion Mines in that State; an.d Z9Z. Shrlmati Da Palchoudhuri: Will (b) if so, the details thereof? the Minister of Finance be pleased to The Minister of Steel, Mines and state: Fuel (SaMar Swaran Singh): (a) . (a) whether it is a fact that a No, Sir. Scheme for granting rebate on Income (b) The question does not arise. Tax as an incentive for export promo- tion as recommended by the Dehejia Nanavati Case Committee reported to have been accepted by Government, is not likely Z90. Shri P. G. Deb: Will the to be enforced for the present; Minister of Defence be pleaSed to (b) if so, the reasons therefor; and state: (c) when it is likely to be made (a) how much amount was ad- effective? vanced to ex-Commandar Nanavati for his defence in the murder case; The Minister of Finance (Shrl and Morarji Desai): '(a) There is no such committee as Dehejia Committee. (b) how much amount has been paid back so far? (b) and (c), Do not arise. 1769 Written Answers MARCH 26, 1962 Written Answers 1770 Some recommendations in this be- Andhra Pradesh: Khammam, Kur- half have been made by the Import nool and Guntur. and Export Policy Committee under Assam: N.E.F.A. the chairmanship of Shri A. Ramaswami Mudaliar. This :eport is Manipur: Ukhrul-Moreh area: under consideration of the Go~ern Punjab: Kangra and Simla. ment. Orissa: Mayurbhanj. Sarve), and Exploration of Minerals Uttar Pradesh: Almora, Garhwal. %93. Shrimati IIa Palchoadhuri: Will Tehri Garhwal and Dehra Dun. the Minister of Steel, Mines aad Fuel West Bengal: Midnapur and Puru- be pleased to state.: lia. (a) whether it is a fact that an The programme envisages large eleborate programme for extensive sca.).e mapping of 8200 sq. miles and intensive survey, exploration and (21,240 sq. kms.); Plane table mapping drilling of the base minerals in India of 111 sq. miles (287 sq. kms.) and including exploitation of diamond drilling 259,000 feet (78,940 metres). deposits of Ram Kherya area in Panna District of Madhya Pradesh has been No separate financial provision is drawn up b)' the Geological Survey made for carrying out geological sur- of India and the National Mineral veys in individual States, the ex- Development Corporation; and pJenditure incurred bemg met from the sanctioned grant of the Geologi- (b) if so, details thereof together cal Survey of India for the country as with the expenditure involved as a Whole. compared to ,the expected gains as a result of the execution of the pro- The Ram Kheriya mining ~cheme gramme? being implemented by the National The Minister of Mines and Oil Mineral Development Corporation (Shrl K. D. Malavi),a): (a) Yes, Sir. Ltd. is estimated to cost Rs. 46'2 A programme for intensive survey lakhs and has a productiOn target of and exploration for base metals ores 12,500 rattis of diamonds per year; it has been drawn up by the Geological is expected to start production in Survey of India. A scheme for E'X- 1963. ploitation of the diamond deposits of R,am Kheriya area in Panna district Lubricants is being implemented by the National Mineral Development Corporation. %94. Shri P C. Borooah: Will the- Minister of Steel, Mines and l'uel be- (b) During the Third Plan period pleased to state: the Geological survey of India pro- pose to undertake intensive explor- (a) the extent to which lubricants ation including drilling fOr copper and are at present produced in the- other base metals in localities in the country; and following districts: (b) to what extent India will be- Bihar: Singhbhum, Hazaribagh, come self-sufficient in respect of such Santhal Parganas, Monghyr and lubricants by the end of the Third: .Bhagalpur. Five Year Plan period? Rajasthan: Jhunjhunu. Alwar, .Ajmer, Udai·pur, Bilwara, Banswara, The Minister of Mines and Oil Pali and Sawai Madhopur. (Shri K. D. Malaviya): (a) Local pro- duction amounts to about 7 per cent.. Madras: South Arcot. of requirements. Mysore: Hassan. (b) It is possible that about 51) Madhya Pradesh: Bastar and Jabal- per cent. of requirements may be met. pur. from local prodl/ction. 1771 Written Amwers CHAITRA 5, 1884 (SAKA) Written Amwers Aid India Club Meeting of India has, however, prepared esti- mates of savings for the period 1950- 295. Shri p. C. Borooah: Will the 51 to 1958-59; and these have been. Minister of FiuaDcebe pleased to published in the Reserve Bank of. state: Indian Bulletin \for August, 1961. (a) whether it is a fact that the Since the year to year estimates are Aid India Club held their meeting on not very reliable or meaningful, the Monday, the 29th January, 1962, and period from 1950-51 to 1958-59 has voted for some funds for the imple- been divided into three sub-periods~ mentation of India's Third Five Year and the ratio of domeStic savings to, Plan; national income works out to &'9 per cent. for the first three years i.e .• (b) if so, how much fund was voted; 1950-51 to 1952-53 7,3 per ~t. for and . the last three yea~ of the First Plan and 7:9 per cent. for fhe first three- (c) if not, whether the voting of years of the Second Plan The Re- funds had been postponed to a later port on the Third Five Year Plan date and why? estimates that towards the end of the The Minister of FiDaDee (Shrl Second Plan period, the ratio of sav- Morarji Desai): (a) to (c). The Con- ings to national in~me was of the sOll"ti.um of Gov!'ll"Illllonts and In- order of 8:5 per cent. stitutions interested in development (b) The Third Five Year Plan postu- assistance to India held its fifth meet- lates increase in the rate of domes- ing in Wash.ington on Janu,ary, 29, and an. tic savings from about 8'5 per cent. 30 1962, to review the action taken of national income at the end cf the bi members of the Consortium in ful- Second Plan to about 11 ,5 per cent. by filment of the aid commitments for the the end of the Third Plan. As stated first year of India's Third Plan, indi- in the Plan, "this will require the ful- cated by them in June 1961 meeting. lest effort to increase total output as The Consortium also recognised that envisaged in the Plan and steady pur- further external assistance would be suit of economic policies designed to required in 1962-63 beyond that al- keep consumption within the limits ready committed, and agreed to meet set by the requirements of invest- again in May, 1962. ment". SavinI'S during Second Five Year Senior Staff Councils Plan PeriOd 297. Shri p. C. Borooah: Will the 296. Shri P. C. Borooah: Will the Minister of Defence be pleased to Minister of Finance be pleased to state: state: (a) the number of recommenda- (a) what had been the ratio of tions made by the Senior Staff Coun- savings to income during each of the cils of the Departments under his· five years of the Second Plan period; Ministry since the constitution of these and councils, year-wise; (b) what steps if any, are proposed to be taken to increase this ratio (b) how many of them have been during the Third Five Year Plan implemented; period? (c) how many of the recommenda- The Minister of Finance (Shri tions have been 'held in abeyance for Morarji Desai): (a) Comparable esti- more than one year; and mates of the ratio of savings to national income during each of the (d) how many have been rejected five years of the Second Plan period by the departments and on what are not available. The Reserve Bank grounds? 1773 Written Answers MARCH 26, 1962 Written Answers 1774 The Deputy Minister of Defence The Minister of Finance (Shrl (Shri Raghu Ramaiah): (a) to (d). A Morarji Desai): (a) statement is laid on the T.able of the House. [Placed in Library. See No. 1956 1957 1958 1959 1960 1961 LT-3607/62]. Snler Staff COllBella (a) 25 25 35 70 66 *50 %98. Shri P. C. Borooah: Will the (b) 19 20t 27t 58 47 39 Minister of Education be pleased to state: (e) (a) the number of recommenda- Cd) 5 5 8 12 18 9 tions made by the Senior Staff Coun- .ells of the Departments under h:s :Ministry since the constitution of these The recommendations were reject- lCOuneils, year-wise; ed either on grounds of economy or due to administrative reasons. (b) how many )f them have been implemented; Sealor Staff COWlen. (c) how many of the recommenda- 300. Shri P. C. Borooah: Will the tions have been held in abey8JllCe for Minister of Home Affairs be pleased more than one year; and to state: (d) how many have been rejected (a) the number of recommE!llda- by the departments and on what tions made by the Senior Staff Coun- grounds? cils of the 'Departments under his Ministry since the constitution of these The Minister of Eiucation (Dr. K. councils, year-wise; L. Shrimali): (a) to (d). A statement is laid on the Table of the House. [See (b) how many of them have been Appendix IT, annexure No. 13]. implemented; Senior Staff Councils (c) how many of the recommenda- tions have been held in abeyance for 229. Shri P. C. Borooah: Will the more than one year; and Minister of Finance be pleased to state: (d) how many have been rejected by the departments and on what (a) the number of recommenda- grounds? tions made by the Senior Staff Councils of the Departments under The Minister of State in the ~rlnis his Ministry since the constitution of try of Home Affairs (Shri Datar): (a) these councils year-wise; to (d). The information is being coI- l ected and will be placed at the Table (b) how many of them have been ~f the tIouse as soon as it is complete. implemented; (c) how many of the recommenda- Senior Staff Councils tions have been held in abeyance for 301. Shri P. C. Borooah: Will the more than one year; and Minister of Law be pleased to state: (d) how many have been rejected by the departments and on what (a) the number of recommendations grounds? made by the Senior Staff Councils ·Of these 2 are under consideration. tIncJuding one withdrawn. :J:lncJuding one not pursted further. Note: The above figures do not include information relating to the Attached aJld Subordinate OlJic.. of the Miniatry. 1775 Written Answers CHAITRA 5, 1884 (SAKA) Written Answers of the Departments under his Minis- curr"nce of the administrative Minis- try since the constitution of these tries concerned. councils, year-wise; (C) NiL (b) how many of them hav" been implemented; Senior Stall Councils (c) how many of the recommenda- 30Z. Shri P. C. Borooah: Will the tions have been held in abeyance for Minister of Scientific Research an4 more than one year; and Cultural Mairs be pleased to state: (d) how many have been r"jected (a) the number of recommenda- by the departments and On what tions made by the Senior Staff Coun- grounds? cils of the D~partment3 under his Ministry since the constitution of these The Deputy Minister of Law (Shri councils, year-wise; Bajamavis): (a) to (d). The position is given in the statement below:- (b) how many rof them have been implemented; Year Number Number Number (e) how many of the recommenda- of of of tions have been held in abeyance for Recom- Recom- Recom- more than one year; and menda- menda- menda- tions tions tions not (d) how many have been rejected made imple- imple- mented. mented by the departments and on what erounds? -----.------(a) (b) (d) The Minister of Scientific Research and Cultural Mairs (Shri ilumayun Kabir): (a) to (d). Since these Coun- 1955 2 2 cils have been in existence "ince 1954, the time and labour required to collect 1956 3 this information will not be commen- surate with the results. 1957 1958 14 II 3 Senior Staff Councils 1959 6 303. Shri P. C. Borooah: Will the Minister of Steel, Mines and Fuel be 1960 8 8 pleased to state: 1961 7 7 (a) the number of recommenda- TOTAL 40 tions made by the Senior Staff Coun- cils of the Departments under his Note: Out of the 4 recommenda- Ministry since the constitution of these tions referred to in Col. (d) above, councils, year-wise; the two recommendations relate to (b) how many I)f them have bee:l the Central Secretariat Clerical Ser- implemented; vice, the third recommendation relates to leave travel concession and (c) how many of the recommenda- the fourth recommendation relates tions have been held in abeyance for to hot weather amenities in office more than one year; and rooms. As the subject matter of (d) how many have been rejected these recommendations is governed by the departments and .on what by policy decisions contained in the grounds? general orders of the Government, this Ministry is not in a position to The Minister of Steel, Mines and either accept or implement the Fuel (Saniar Swaran Singh): (a) to recommendations without the con- (d). A statement giving the infor- 1777 Written Answers MARCH 26, 1962 Written Answers 177& mation is laid on the table of the Explosloa Near lama Masjid, DeIhl House. [See Appendix n, annexure No. 14]. 305. 8bri D. C. Sharma: Will the Minister of Home Affairs be pleased to state: Election candidates (a) whether two persons were in- 304. Sbri A. I. Gopa]aD.: Will the jured in an explosion behind Harey Minister of Law be pleased to state: Bharey Mazar, opposite Jama Masjid,. (a) the names of candidates (ala9 Delhi on the 12th February, 1962; constituencies) who died before the date of withdrawal after filing their (b) whether any investigations have nomination papers; been made in this regard; and (b) names of candidates who died (c) if so, the result thereof? after the date of withdrawal; and The MiDister of State in the Minis- (c) steps taken for holding elections try of! Home Affairs (Shri »aW): (a) in each case? On 12th February, 1962 at dbout 9 p.m. there was a cracker explosion in The Deputy MiDister of Law (8hri a tent near Harey Bhare Mazar, in llajamavis): (a) Shri Malkhan Singh, which two persons received minor in- .a candidate for Sikandra Rao Assemb- juries. ly constituency in Uttar Pradesh, died (b) and (c). The case is under in- after filing his nomination pa.per but vestigation. betore the last date for withdrawal of candidature. . Violation of Foreip1 Exchange Rules (b) The following candidates died 306. Shri P. G. Deb: Will the Minis- after the last date of withdrawal of ter of Finance be pleased to refer to candidature:- the reply given to Un&tarred Question No. 2200 given on the 6th September, 1. Shri Reddigari Narasimha 1960 and state: Reddi. 2. Shri Ramchandra Rao Ganpat- (a) how many cases of violation of rao Dhote. foreign exchange rUles have been de- cided from 31st July, 1960 up to date; 3. Shri Annamalai Muthuraja. 4. Shri Girjesh Bahadur. . (b) whether any action has Peen 5. Shri ZuJ1ik,ar Hussain Khan. taken to reduce them positively; and (C) In the case of the candidate re- (c) if so, whether the details there- ferred to in part (al of the qu~stion, of and names of the parties and the as the candidate had died before the fine imposed under different sections last date for withdrawal of candida- will be placed on the Table? tures, nis name was not included in the list of contesting candidates and The Minister of Finance (Shri the electron proceeded according to Morarji Desai): (a) 580 cases of programme. violation of the foreign exchange re- gulations have been adjudicated by In each of the cases mentioned in the Directorate of Enforcement from part (b) of the question, the poll was the 31st July, 1960 to the 28th Febru- countermanded under section 52 of the ary, 1962. Representation of the People Act, 1951 and all proceedings with re- (b) Cases of violation of the foreign ference to the elections in the consti- exchange regulations are carefully in- tuencies concerned were ·:ommenced vestigated and deterrent penalties are anew. Four of these elections have imposed wherever they are deemed 'been completed and the remaining necessary. Such ,action is expected one is in progress. to result in a reduction in the number I 779 Written Answers CHAlTRA 5, 1884 (SAKA) Written Answer. 1780 of violations. The Director of En- ~~,~~~it~~~ forcement has taken steps to reduce the number of pending ,'ases by ~~~~iF~'!I'tcf strengthening the machinery of in- ~~;;rr~~? vestigation and expediting ,he <>rocess of adjudication. ~~ ~ t{ mq'~ ~ (c) Penalties totalling Rs. 11,83;693 ~): (lfi) rn"~~~ were imposed on the persons or firms ~, ~, ~ ~~, itm:r, concerned. It is considered that the ;nmr, ~, ~, q';;mr, ~, furnishing of a voluminous statement giving details of these 580 cases would ~ ~ Cf1fT ~ ;f1m;r ifr ~ not serve any useful purpose. How- ifm;m:~~iF~f.:r1fiT'!I't~ ever particulars of any specific case ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ in which penal action has been taken ifr iF ;;rr-U will be furnished, if required. ~~~ I ~~uuifr~ ~iF.m:it~~ifr~ ~~~~ ~ ~o". tit ~ ~ : ;m 'I~..Ifmi ~ ~o ~, ~tf, ~ iF ~ IDcIiau Writers ~ ~ ¥'to iF ~ iF ~ it 1Il ~ifrii"ITmfit;~~ 309. Shri BibhuU Mishra: Wi!! the Minister of Scientific Research alld ~ it ifr ~ fu1!;rfuff '!I't ~ Cultural Mairs be pleased to .tate: rn ifr mrr it ~ ~;m WTfu~? (a) whether it is a fact thst the Sahitya 'Akademi ha! publiahed a book regarding the Indian writers giv- 'I~~ ~ t{ mq'~ (tit ing information about their works -mm::) : ~ ~ ~ ~ etc.; ~ ~ ~ lfI1!<'I1 ifr rn iF f.N (b) if so, whether it is a tact that ~ ~.f.I;m" ~ 'IT ~ ~ the name of famous Hindi writer ~~ t;rn'IIT rit~~ ~ "Nagarjun" has 1I10t been included in it; and ;;rr m I (c) if so, the 1 ea$()n3 therefor~ ~~.t~m~ The Minister of ScielltifiC Research and CultnraI Mairs (Shri Bumayull ~o.:;. tit ~ ~ : ;m ~~ Kabir): (a) Yes, Sir. ~ ~o ~, ~tf,~ ~ iF (b) No, Sir. "Nagarjun", which is ~~ t, .. iF~iF~itlil one of the pen-names used by Shri ~ ifr ii"IT m fit; : Vaidyanath Mishra appears at page 208 of the Sahitya Akademi's publi- C81tion "Who's Who of Indian Writers". (lfi) ~~~t~ (e) Does not arise. i!iT~~ifr~~~ lfiT~m~~q~ Bo1lSes for Scheduled Castes ill Flood Meeled Areas of OrIssa if ~ (!tIi ~ f.I;m" 'IT, ~ 1!'ff.I' it ~ ~~~~~~;~ 310. Shri B. C. MulUck: Will the Minister of Bome Mairs he- pleased (1!f) f;r;f ~ it 1Il ~ f.I;m" to refer to"the reply given to Unstarred Written A1I81Ders MARCH 26, 1962 Written Answers Question No. 310 on the 23rd :lovem- Memorandum No. 20(2)-EV /56 '!ated ber, 1961 and state: 22nd May, 1957 and the Ministry of Finance (Department of Expenditure) (a) the number of houses cons- Office Memorandum No. F 4(2)-Est. tructed for the Scheduled Castes in (Spl)!59-I dated 22nd April, 1960 the floOd aft~ areas in Orissa; further amending the Government (b) the names of places where such of India Ministry of Finance. Ollic(' houses have been constructed; and Memorandum No. F. 3(I)-Est.(Spl)/47 dated 17th April, 1950 take effect (c) the number of families which from 17th April, 1956 and if 1I10t from so far have taken the occupation ot which date; the houses? (b) whether the rules in the OfIice The Minister of State in the Minis- Memoranda dated 22nd May, 1957 and try of Home Mairs (Shri Datar): (a) 22nd April, 1960 referred to in (a) to (c). The required information has above are applicable to the persons been called for from the State Gov- retired on or after 17th April, 1956, ernment. A statement will be laid but on or before 21st April 1960 and, on the Table of the House when the if not, why not; informatiOn is received. (c) how man" pe~s'mJ have retir- Percentage of Voting in Orissa ed between 17th April, 1956 and 21st, April, 1960; 311. Shri B. C. Mul.Iick: Will the Minister of Law be pleased to state: (d) whether claims to pensions and gratuities in respect of Central Gov- (a) the percentage of the voters ernment employees who retired bet- who cast their votes in the recently ween the dates mentioned at :c) conducted Lok Sabha elections in above have since been settled and if Orissa; and not why; (b) the percentage of votes secured (e) whether there are any cases by the different political parties where the (pensioners were rduscd separately? application of the liberalised new pension rules as quoted at (a) above The Deputy Minister of Law (Shri although they exercised their option Bajamavis): (a) 25.88 per cent of within the stipulated period; and the electors in Orissa voted at the general election to the Lok Sabha. (f) if so, what is the number of such cases and the grounds on which (b) The percentage of valid votes they were rej~? secured by the different political parties in Orissa was as follows:- The Minister of FinaDce (Shri Morarji Desai): (a) The provisions uf Indian National Congress 55'52 this Ministry's OfIice Memorandum Ganatantra Parishad 17'42 No. 2O(2)-EV 156, dated the 22nd May, Parja Socialist Party IS'SO 1957 concerning ohanges in pension and death-cum-retirement gratuity, took Communist Party of India 5' II effect from 17th April, 1956. But in Socialist Party 2·67 regard to f,amily pension, these orders Swatantra Party 1'16 took effect from 1st April, 1957 though a provision for considering cases of Pension RuIes persons who died during three years prior to 1st April, 1957, was made in 312. Shri Balraj Madhok: Will the para 6 (ii) of these orders. Minister of Finance be pleased to This Ministry's Office Memorandum state: No. F. 4(2)-Est.(SpI)/59-I, dated the (a) whether the rules promulgated 22nd April, 1960 took effect from the in the Ministry of Finance OfIIce date 01 issue. But a provision has Written AnaweTS CHAITRA 5, 1884 (SAKA) Written Answers been made that fOr persons who re- (a) whether it is a fact that the tired on or after the 1st November, National Mineral Development Cor- 1959 but before the 22nd April, 1960, poration invited applications for the qualifying service ,as well as emolu- posts of Administrative Officers in ments for pension will 'le reckoned April, 1961; either according to ·the relevant pen- sion rules as they stood on the date (b) whether it is also a fact tha\ these posts wer;! tilled without COIl- of their retirement or under the pro- sidering those who applied in response· visions as amended, whichever is to the Corporation's advertisement; more favourable. (b) The dates of application of (c) if so, whether the application orders are as in Coal Wasberles (C) and (d). The question of re- funding the application fee does not 313. Shri Morarka: Will the Minister arise it is not the normal practice of Steel, Mines and Fuel be pleased to as to refund the amount when the ap-· state: plications have been considered. (a) what progress has been made so far regardLng the various coal Plyinc of ToIlgas and Rehras on New washeries in the public sector; Delhi Roads (b) what is the total production of 315. Shri Bairaj Madhok: ,Vill the· washed coal at present; and Minist.er of Rome Aftairs be pieased to state: (c) what is our total requirement? (a) whether any amendment has: The Minister of Steel, Mines aDd been made in the order forbiddi.ng the Fuel (Sardar Swaran Singh): (a) A plying of Tongas and Rehras on cer-· statement giving the required infor- tain roads of New Delhi during speci- mation is attached. Appendix [See fied hours in the morning and even- annexure No. 15-16]. n, ing; and (b) About 4 million tons per annum. (b) if so, the details thereof? (c) The total requirement of washed coal will amount to about 15 .nillion The Minister of State In the Minis- tons ,by the end of the Third Plan. try of Rome Affairs (Shri Datar): (a) Yes. NatiOnal Mineral Development Corporation (b) The following re1ax.atior!s have- been made:- 314. Shri Ganpat Sahai: Will the Minister of Steel, Mines aud Fuel be (i) The prohibitory ;Jrder shall pleased to state: not be in force on Sundays Written Answers MARCH 26, 1962 Written Answers and Central Government holi- (c) The Government of India is days in respect of any cate- considering the question of introdUcing gory of vehicles. a Triple Benefit Sc:h.eme for aided school teachers under which the (il) The period. of restriction in teachers will be entitled to the bene- the evenillithas been reduced fits of pension, provident fund and by half an hour, i.e., in the compulsory insur,ance. evening it will . nOw be in force from 5 P.M. to 6 P.M. Cases of Murder and Assault in instead of 5 P.M. to 7 P.M. Delhi ·(m) The restrictions have been 317. Shri Balraj Madhok: Will the withdrawn in respect of Minister of Home Mairs be pleased tongas carrying pas~ngers on to state: Road (form'~r Reading Mandir (a) the total number of cases of Road). murder and assault in Delhi during '(iv) One way traffic has been al- the months of January and February, lowed during restricted hours 1962; and on Connaught Circus between (b) the numlber of cases in which its junction with Chelmsford culprits have been traced and appre- in the direction of Minto Road hended so far? Bridge and towards Thompson Road. The MinIster of State in the Minis- try of Home Mairs (Shrl Datar): (v) Tongas have been permitted to cross the prohibited roads even during the restricted hours at January Feburary Total inter-sections along the roatIs which are not 9Ubject to res- trictions. Murder 4 7 Il Assault S9 56 115 "Teaehel'!l of AWed Sehools in Delhi (b) Murder 8 116. Shrl Balraj Mac1hok: Will the Assault 29 "Mmister of Education be pleased to 48 77 ·state: FlOOd ReHel fOr Orissa (a) whether it is a fact that no 31B. Shri Chintamani Panigrahl: benefits of pension or gratiIity are en- Will the Minister at Finance be joyed by teachers working in aided pleased to state: schools in Delhi; (a) the amoUlllt of money which the (b) whether it is also a that fact Central Government have given to -nelhi ·teachers· have long been de- Orissa as its contribution to the manding the extension of these bene- Famine Relief Fund for meeting the fits to them; and fiood relief expenditure in 1961-62; (c) if so, what steps Government and ·propose to take to meet this demand? (b) what amount the State Govern- ment have actually spent in flood re- The MinIster of EdueaUon (Dr. K. lief work in this period up-to-date? L. ShrimaH): '(a) No, Sir. The tea- The MbUster of FiDance (Sbrl chers in aided schools are entitled to Morarji Desai): (a) and (b). '!'he "the benefits of the ContriJbutory Provi- Central Government do not make any -dent Fund in lieu of pension and direct contribution to the Famine Re- ;gratuity. lief Funds of the State Governments. (b) Yes, Sir. They, however. share a part of the 1787 Written Answers CHAITRA 5, 1884 (SAKA) Written_Answers . 1788 ex:pendibure on speci1ied items of have already been converted into per- gratuitous relief incurred by the manent ones. This a<:CO\lnts for 77 State Governments on account of per cent of the posts recommended natural calamities under a prescribed by the former S.H. Unit on the basis pattern. The Government of Orissa of the quantum of work which was in have not so far intimated the actual existence in April, 1956. expenditure on flood relief during 11161-62, nor has the scale of Central The S.R. Unit of the Ministry of atl8istancebeen settled so far. Finaoce has recently inspected the office of the Iron and Steel Controller, CODIrmation of Employees of the Calcutta, with a view to assess stal! Office of Iron and Steel requirement. It is expected that the ControUer unit after working out !.he staft' requirements will submit the final l'e- 319. Shrimati Renu ChakravarUy: port in a few months time. On re- Will the Minister of Steel, Mines and ceipt of the report of the S.H. Unit, Fuel be pleased to state: further action relating to conversion of temporary posts into permanent (a) whether it is a fact that a large number of employees working in the ones will be taken up. Iron and Steel Controller's Office have remained temporary for several years; Delhi Schools (b) whether it is also a fact that 328. Shri Ram Garib: Will the some of them have been working as Minister ot Education be pleased to temporary hands since 1944; state: . (e) when the recommendations of (a) what is the nU!r.b~r of schools the Second Pay CommissiOn to desig- (primary, middle, high and higher naie all posts which have been in con- secondary) run by the Delhi Munici- tinuance for more than three years, as pal Corporation, New DeW Munici- posts of permaillent nature and to pal Committee 8JIld the Directorate of make 90% of them permanent will be Education, Delhi in DelhiJNew Delhi given effect; and areas on the 1st March, 1962, which have no buildings; (d) when will the S.H. unit submit its report? (b) for hOW many schools, the buildings are under construction and fte Minister of Steel, Mines and when they will b~ c?lnpletCli; Fael (Sardar Swaran Singh): (a) to (c) whether it is a fact that some (d). According to the existing pro- school buildings are under construc- cedure. 80 per cent. of sucll temporary tion in Sarojini Nagar, New Delhi; posts are required for work of a as and permanent nature, may be convened into permanent ones provided they (d) if so, which school, will be a=- have been in existence for a r.ontinu- commodated in each building? ous period of not less than 3 years. Al_ though almost all the posts in the The Mlnlster of Edueation (Dr. K. L. ShrImali): (a) (1) Directorate of Iron and Steel Control Organisation have ·been in existence for more than Educ;ation-31. three years, it is still uncertain which (2) Delhi Municipal Corporation- of the functions of that organisation 93. w.ill remain permanently. Unless the production and demlllfd stabilises, it (a) New Delhi Municipal Co.'ll- will not ·be possible to assess con"ect- mittee-9. ly tIJe quantum of work which will Total 133. devolve on this Organisation perman- ently.. However, out of 708 posts in (b) (1) Directorate of Education-9 Steel Control Organisation, 406 posts -to be completed by July, 1962. 20]7 (Ai) LS-3'. Written Answers MARCH 26, 1962 Written Answers 1790 (2) Delhi Municipal CorporatiOIr- Pictolftphs Near AkhDur Temple iD SZ--to be completed by September, IIlDlDlD &lid Kasbmir 1062. 322. Shri BaghDDath SiRch: Will (3) New Delhi Municipal Com- the Minister of ScienttIlc Re8eIiraIa ami Cultural Affairs be pleased to mittee-Nil. state: (c) and (d). Yes, one building is (a) whether ancient pictographs under construction whillh on comple- have been foUOd near Akhnur telllllle tion will accommodate the "3ovem- in Jammu and Kashmir State by ment Co-Educational Higher Secund- Sividyealh Khaguria, Curator 01 ary School, Sarojini Nagar, and Gov- Dogra Art Gallery, Jammu; and ernment Girls Higher Seco'ldary School (II shift) Sarojini Nagar, in (b) if so, what is their historical shifts. value? The MiDister of ScienWlc aes.ft!II. Summer Vacation in Delhi SeboolJ and Cultural Affairs (Prof. Rwnayu Kabirl: (a) and (b). No pictographs but some inscriptions have been a2L Shri Ram Gmb: Will the found and are being studied. Minister of Education be pleased to state: Statistics about General Electi_ (a) whether it is a fact that the 323. Shri Raghanath SiRch: Will school vacation in Delhi is observed the Minister of Law be pleased to in the months of May-July and state how many invalid votes were when the schools re-apen in July, recorded in the last general election in the rains start in Delhi; Assembly and Lok Sabha elections (b) whether it is also a fact that State-wise as compared to 1952 and Study in tented-schools are hamper- 1957 general elections? ed during rains in Delhi; The Deputy MiDlster of Law (Sui IlajarDavis): Although general elec- (c) if the answers to parts (a) and tions are over in most of the cOn- (b) be in the affirmative, for· how stituencies, polling is yet to ~ many days stUdy has been hamper- place in a few snow-boUOd consti- ed in each of the tented-schools in tuencies of Punjab aDd Hi:mliChaI Delhi during the last academic year Pradesh. After all the elections hAve and what remedial steps Government been Completed, it will take same propose to take in the matter; and time for collecting and compiling'ihe information required in the question (d) whether there is any proposal to change the vacation to July--Sep- E~ tember Ulontbs, apart from construct- London Conferenee or ing buildings for the schools? SUo Shri RaghllDath SInch: WiD the Minister of Education be pleased The Minister or EducatlClll (Dr. to state: K. L. Shrimali): (a) Yes, Sir. (a) whether Ilndian engineers are (b) Yes, only for a few days. taking part in London conference or engineers; and (e) No statistics have been kept (b) if so, their names and what ~ school-wise. Efforts are .being made their contribution to the Conference! to provide buildings for these tented schools as expeditiously as possible. 1'IIe MiDiBter Of Education (Dr. K L. SbrImaIi): (a) and (b). '!'be (d) No, Sir. infiormation is being collected aua 179I Written. Answers CHAITRA 5, 1884 (SAKAl Written Answers will be laid on the Table of the (b) the means of communication, House. which either exist or are proposed over these distances; SkaD &rap (cl how they are Proposed to be developed if they are inadequate to (SIIri BaPllllath SiDch: serve the steel plants taking into I Shri S. C. S--ta: consideration their future expansion; ~ Sbri SubOdh 1IaD8da: I Dr. Pashupati M8II4aI: (d) what are the relative costs of l Shri P. R Patel: developing or providing them as may be necessary. separately for rail, road Will the Minister of Steel, Mias and inland water transport; aDd Fuel be pleased to state: (el whether at present the steel (a> the quantity of skull scrap dis- plants rely solely on rail, communi- posed of in 1961 ,by: cation and if so why other modes of (il Messrs, Hindustan Steel Ltd. communications have not been de- plants; veloped either in place of the rail- ways wherever new lines have been (ii) MIs. Tata Iron & Steel Co.. laid for the steel plants or to sup- Ltd.; plement them; and (iii) MIS. Indian Iron & Steel Co. Ltd.; (f) generally, what are the econo- mics of road and rail communications (iv) Mysore Iron & Sleel MIs. in such areas as regards the in tial Works; cost. the cost of operation and speed? (V) the scrap-based furnace owners; and The Minister of Steel. Mines aDd Fuel (Sanlar Swaran Siq'h): (a) to (b) whether il is a fact that the (f). Attention of the Hon'ble Mem- above ,.teel -producers are allowed to ber is invited to the statement made Ilispose of their skull arisings freely? by me in reply to Unstarred Ques- tion No. 1948 on the 20th March, '1'IIe Minister of Steel, Mines aDd Fuel (Sardar Swann SiDcIl): (a). 1961. The information is not readily avail- able. Export of Heavy Melt~ Scrap (b) The Steel Plants of HSL and Mysore Iron & Steel Works consume r "hri Raghunath Singh: their arisings of the steel skull. The J Shri SabGdb. Ham;iIa: arisings at Tata Iron & Steel Co. md 3%' "1 Shri S. C. Samanta: lIldiail tron & Steel Co. are alloWed lOr. Pilshupati Mandal: to be eXlJi:irtecl. if they are not re- quired by the other Steel Plants. Will the Minister of Steel, Mines and Fuel be pleased to state: Supply of Raw Material for Steel (a) the quantity of heavy melting PIau.. scrap exported during the years 1951-1961; SK. SIIri Bach_til SiDcIl: WID the Minister at Steel, MIues· aaiI (b) the quantity of heavy melting ftel' be pleased to state. scrap indigenously melted during the same period; (a) what are the distanCes of the sources of raw materials from the (c) whether it is a fact that the present Steel plants and also those current scrap policy continues the proposed in the nurd Five Year total ban on heavy melting ,scrap Plan; export; 1793 Written Answers MARCH 26, 1962 Written Answers I79~ . (d) whether the ban on heavy (d) whether India would pay her melting scrap export is maintained due share for the implementation of due to the scarcity of heavy melting the scheme; and scrap or for other reasons; and (e) if so. to what extent? (e) what is the estimated annual surplus or shortage of heavy melting scrap? The Minister for Scientific Beseuell and Cultural AftaInJ (Prof. B~.. The Minister of Steel, Mines and Kabir): (a). Yes, Sir. Fuel (Sardar Swaran Sinch): (a) The figures of export of heavy melting (b) Yes, Sir. scrap during the years 1951-55 are not available. However, the figures (e) Estimated by Unesco at $87 of export from 1955 to i9fl1 are Million. given below:- (d) and (e). No decision has yet Ton. been reached. 1955 30,o.p 1956 1,582. ~qwT""'~~ r957 1,000 r958 2.1,556 11 lit. ~ ~ 9R"!Ii\' : 'm 1959 47,960 fimf ~ ~ ~ ~, ~ t 'H ~nrruf.lRr 1960 43>450 ~ ~ tlt~ iF ~ iF ~ if 2.2.,050 ~~""'li'JTmf1r;: (b) This information is not avail- ('Ii) 'Ilir ~ itlIii 'liT ~ able. ~miF~~f'Iiit~ Ic) Yes, Sir. !IIWPT ;r 'II"r-lT 'IiTlf ~ ~ ~ ~; (d) The total ban on export of h.,avy melting scrap has been main- (~) lffi:"~,;:t"r ~if (!'Ii f.IRr;rr 'IiTlf tained from the latter half of 1961 because of the scarcitv of this type ~~~t of scrap in the country. (~) w ~ iF mr ~ ~ (e) Accurate statistics are not ~m~f1r;~if;;ft;Nf.r.r~ available. f'Iiit;;nit ~ ~ ~ ~ if m1I' m1I' Abu Simb.,l T.,mple in Aswan Dam Site ~ m om ~ om~; 328. Shri P. C. ~: Will the Minister of ScieDtific Research and ('!f)lffi:"~,ffi'~'Iiif(!'li~ Cultural Atrairs be pleased to state: ~~~lffi:"~ffi'~mit (a) whether there is danger of the 'm ~~; ~ Abu Simbel temple being submerged tinder the Nile waters after the construction of Aswan High Dam In (~) yr ~ iIFitzr ifoIif 'lir Egypt; ~it~~~? (b) if so, whether there is a scheme for preventing the temple from beina ~ ~(~~) submerged; ('Ii) ~iF~~it1til1r~ (e) what Is the cost of scheme; ~~mrt CHAITRA 5, 1884 (SAKA> Written Answers 1795 Written Answers (d) The Institute is coping with ~ ~ m~~'PI;r ~ it {llf} the demand. Further-more, Delhi ~~~~~tl...iJ, .. is able to draw upon the supply avail- able from the neighbouring States. (If) ~ ('Of). ~ B. Ed. 1I0 and -non-family quarters :separately; M.Ed. 2S and (b) No. ofapplicants in 1961 No. (e) what steps are being taken to admitted meet this shortage? B.Ed. 680 lIO The Minister of State in the Minis- M.Ed. ,,6 17 try of Rome Affairs (Shri Datar): (a) 11,990. (c) Class From J~ other (b) 95. Territory Sta~. - quarters of Delhi. (c). No. of family available. 1371. B.Ed. SIS 165 Non-family accommodation For 5097 101 available. M.Ed. IS persons. 1797 Writtrn Answers MARCH 26, 1962 Motiou for Aciioumment I79B (d) (i) Family quarters--4170 (a) how ~y acres nf lIgI4 are proposed to, acq~ Il~ ~~.li (ii) Non-~ly accommodation be and near about for oil refinerY' in for 1352 persons. Gujarat; (e) Tbe construction of residential (b,) w~t will be ~ ~~d ,accommodation for police personnel conwensation price of ~ lands pia- bas been given tb" highest priority posed to be acqwred; and ' and all land available with the Dellli Police has been pressed into use for (e) what will be the yearly loss of tbis purpose. Three plots of land in agricultural produce and the lOBs of Wazir Nagar, Shakur Basti, and excise duty etc. to Govermnent7 Andrews Ganj have recenUy been anotted to the Delhi Police. Further, The MiDister of MiDeB aad on a sum of Rs. 35 lakhs bas been ear- (Sbri K. D. Malavi,a): Government Servants Central 8IIcJ. State Tlaes on Tea 333. Sbri T. B. Vitial Rao: Will the 335. Sbri P. C. Bo1'ODllh: Will the Mi';ister of Home Affairs be pleased Minister of PlnllDllebe pleased to to state: state: (a) whetber it is a fact that ~he (a) whether lndian Tea Planters, Home Minister addressed a meeting Association at its 31st Annual meeting of ,Government servants held in held recently i:n Calcutta demanded Vigyan Bbavan last year, under (he consolidation of Central and State presidentship of Mrs. Rajen Nehru; taxes on Tea; and (b) whether it is a fact that a (b) if SQ, what is the Government's number of resolutions were passed in decision thereon? thh' meeting; and The Minister 01 ~ (Shri (cl if so, the action taken thereon? Morarji Desai): (a) No report on the proceedings of the 31st annual meet- The Minister of State in the Minis- ing has been received from the lndian try of HODle Affairs (Sbri Datar): Tea Planters" Association and the Govenunent of India is not aware (a) Yes. whether they demanded consolidation (b) No resolution have been re- of Central and Statc taxes on tea. cciv~d by Government. (b) Does not arise. (c) DOe Nehra): Regarding the tragic incident and intensive patrolling is being ~t took place in the North Cachar undertaken to reassure the people. Bws on the 15th March, I have reCeived some further information on These are the bare facts, but there -thl,s. subject, which more or less con· can be no doubt that such an incident mmsthe~=twhl~heap~ued is very distressing and it points to a ill- Some of the newspa~rs. I am certain change in the attitude of the sorry I was unable to give a fuller N 8ga hostiles. That is to say, this is account on the let occasion, because essentially no part of the movement this was a mattel' directly concerning in Nagaland. It is an outflow from the Assam Governm;ont. If it had that, when they act just e dacoits. ·concerned the Nagaland, it would They have acted like that inNagB.- have been referred to us immediately. land. But now they have come into Therefore, we had to get the facts Assam territory, which he nothing fr.om the Assam Government. The to do with Nagaland and attacked a facts as we understand them are as different tribe. I think this is an .follows. attack on a diiferent tribe; there was some contlict between the two tribes- On the evening of the 15th Much, the N aga hostiles and these tribes, I gangs of Naga hostiles armed with forget what they are called. But rifles, raided some villages of North anyhow, it is purely a criminal matter. Cachu Hills and set fire to some 174 These Naga hostiles are now engaged hi!uses. Nearly 700 ~rsons were in criminal activities. which should rendered homeless and took shelter be dealt with as we deal with dacoits in Hajadisa village and in surround- and the rest. It cannot even remotely ing jungles. One person was shot be connected with anv political dead during the raid and a Govern- as~ct of the Nagaland. Therefore, it ment PWD Camp and a Lower Pri· is serious and although it has hap- mary School in one of the villages ~ned in Assam. that does not in were also burnt down. The area any sense lessen the resJ;lonsibility of where the raid took place has very the forces dealing with the hostile difficult. hilly and jungle terrain and Nagas in Nagaland itself. The House is inaccessible except by foot. It has will appreciate that dealing with been intensively patrolled by Army armed men. call them dacoit.q if you and Police before the elections. like. whether it is in Madhya Pradesh or Rajasthan or places like that where Immediatelv on receipt of the news, thev have a good place to secure the local Sub-Divisional Officer with themselves-in Madhya Pradesh they armed patrols left for the area. Police have these ravines and other places- patrols which were operating in the is a difficult problem, because they neilzhbourhood also moved into the are armed, they can hide and they area. Deputy Commissioner and can escape. And this terrain is even Superintendent of Police, Mikir Hills, worse than that terrain. So, nobody also left for the uea on receipt of can guarantee absolutely that a num- ·the news. Additional reinforcements ber of armed men cannot commit su~ of Assam Armed Police have been atrocities. But it is a bit shocking 'moved into the uea. that this kind of thing should occur to innocent ~ople. All I can say is, The State Government immediately as part of the larger s~eme of things sanctioned Rs. 50,000 and would be of meeting this menace of the Naga sanctioning further re!ief as may be hostiles, steps should be taken as necessary. The Assam Minister for effective as they can well be in the Tribal Areas was to have left for the circumstances. spot yesterday to ~rsonally assess and supervise relief and other Shri Braj Raj SlD«h (Firozabad): arrangements. Further outposts in The statement made by the hon. 'the area are being set up immediately Prime Minister perhaps indicates that • ISO! Motions MARCH 26, 1962 jor Adjournment 1802 [Shri Braj Raj Singh]' there may be some change in the their movement. Therefore, to say policy of the Government of India in tha t this is not part of the political dealing with the Naga hostiles. So movement of the Nagas is not correct. far our policy has been that our 1 would say these border areas of jawans have been asked not to shoot Assam are left undefended inspite of at the Naga rebels. In view of the the fact that there have been depre- statement of the Prime Minister, may dations there on several occasions. I we know whether the House can will just ask the Prime Minister to expect some change in the policy of say whether these border areas are the Government of India in dealing sufficienUy defended and the Assam with the Naga hostiles. either in Government is instructed to that Nagaland or in the neighbouring purpose. At the same time, I ask: areas of Assam or Manipur? what is the agency through which the Government of India gets the infor- mation. We were told that the Gov- Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: do not ernment of lndia has its own agency think there has been any policy of there. Now the statement ot the the Government preventing people Prime Minister reveals that the from shooting the hostiles. Perhaps, agency on which the Government of what the hon. Member refers to is .... India depends is the Government of Mr. Speaker: Shoot at sight. Assam and, in spite of this incident, the Government of Assam did not supply the information to the Union Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: Yes, shoot Government in time. What is this? at sight. Certainly, they can shoot at sight any person who is committing Mr. Speaker: The other day the any depredation, but it is often hon. Prime Minister read out some difficult to distinguish between a hos- statement about the incident. It did tile and a friend. We do not want not contain any reference to the 15th our friends to get shot-that was the March at all. idea-because they dress alike; in tact, they wear the military dress so Shri Jawabarlal Nehru: I forget as to be mistaken for a friend. So, the statement which I read out. All it is very difficult and one has to I pointed out was that in this matter take risks sometimes. Normally, one if such a thing occurs in Nagaland. does not want to take the risk of information about it comes directly shooting a friend. The instructions to us immediately. If this happens undoubtedly are that people who in the Assam territory, the informa- commit dacoity, burning and killing tion goes to the Assam Government can certainly be shot at sight. and then comes fa us. So, there is some slight delay, unless we may get some direct information through our Shri H'em Barua (Gauhati): The intelligence or something else. As a hon. Prime Minister was pleased to matter of fact, the statement that I say that this attack on a tribal village read out that day was the preliminary in North Cachar-Mikir Hills is not report we .got from our intelligence; part of the political movement of the not a full report. Subsequently, we Naga hostiles. It is not so. There got this fuJIer report from the Assam have been instances of such attacks Government. committed in the border areas of Assam district, and the hostile Nagas Shri Hem Barua: There waa no carry on- these depredations in order report at all of anything conne~ted to supplement their movement. TheJ' with this. carry away arms and ammunition, if available, or they carry away money Mr. Speaker: Subsequently there from the villagers so as to gear up was. Motions CHAlTRA 5, 1884 (SAKA) for Adjournment Sbri Jawaharlal Nehru: There is Mr. Speaker: I will call him after nothing odd about it. Whatever may hearing the hon. Prime Minister. occur, if it occurs in a State Govern- ment territory, we get the informa- Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: This qu'es- tion from the State Government. tion of the Karnafuli Dam was raised That is the right course. Unless we several years ago. Two and a half have an army outpost or some years ago it was formally considered intelligence, we normally get it from at a ministerial level conference. the State Government. As for what Subsequently, there had been, I the hon. Member says, what I ventur- believe, four conferences between the ed to say was that this is not part of representatives of Pakistan and India. the N agaland. It is, of course, true We told Pakistan that we have no that the Naga hostiles occasionally go objection to their having that dam outside and attack various villages at Karnafuli even though as a result round about, chiefly in the hope of of it flooding might take place ,over getting some money or supply. The a small part, a few miles, of Indian Nagas in this case too, I understand, territory, but we must know exactly demanded money and supplies and what part is going to be flooded; that on the villagers not acceding to their is to say, there should be a su,rvey wishes they attacked them. as to where exactly the dam will be, how much it will affect our side and Sbri Hem Barua: May I submit the question of compensation etc. that this is not a case of pure dacoity? would naturally arise. It was more Mr. Speaker: As the hon. Prime 01' less agreed that this will take pJace. Minister pointed out, this attack is Subsequently, it was decided that the only for the purpose of furnishing dam would be a little higher than themselves with sufficient resources previously thought of. Therefore. the to fight later on. All that can be done flooding would be greater, OV~l' a is being done by that Government wider area. That involved even more and this Government. Enough has proper survey to know exactly what been said and sufficient factual infor- area would be flooded. This has :been mation has been given to this House. repeated several times. Now, in the So, 1 do not think it is necessary or last few weeks, we have learnt from worthwhile to allow these adjourn- the public press that,. they are gOing ment motions. to start this scheme and that the President of Pakistan is supposed to KARNAFULI DAM IN PAKISTAN AND ITS visit the place to inaugurate the EFFECTS ON INDIAN TERRrTORY scheme. I do not know what inaugu- Mr. Speaker: I have received notice ration means. whether it will mean of another adjournment motion from that flooding will start then and how Shri Hem Barua which reads: far it will go, but I understand that the dam is fairly ready. "The situation arising out of the reported decision of Pakistan As I said, we have no objection and' to inaugurate the Karnafuli Dam if that scheme is to the advantage {If project on Saturday next. which Pakistan, we do not want to come in after it is oonstructed would the way of the scheme. But we take result in considerable POrtions of strong exception to their taking any Indisn territory in the adjoining steps without reference to us, without areas being subm~ged and the survey, without a decision aoout damaged." compensation etc. And among other things, we wanted some electric This appears 'on the front page of power for our use. All these things Statesman of today. What b the have not been decided. and theJ'- talk position? about starting the scheme. It is that Shri Bem Barua: May I submit .... to which we take strong exception, • 1805 Motions ¥ARCH 26, 1962 LShri Jawaharlal Nehru] and we have been sending them any agreement we will be quite sure letters. I do not remember the date as to the scheme, the area to be but we sent them these letters in the inundated before we sip on the last few weeks, some in the begin- dotted line? Because, on more than ning of February, explaining our one occasion it has happened that all position to them that without the the diflIculties have arisen when it survey being completed, this should comes to a questiOl\ of a geaeral not be done. A little later we hilve principle being impJanented. It baa again reminded them of this. We happened in the c:r.se of Beru Sari: have had no reply to these protests all our maps they have taken a,..,ay, yet. the survey has IlOl: been completed, and we do not know where we stand. Silri Hem BanIa: We have raised And in the ease of Karnafuli, what or, different occasions this matter on the Prime Minister has stated makes the floor of the House, as regards the it even more clear that we did not construction of this Karnafuli dam by know even about the actual site and Pa~stan, and we were never told about the actual si%e of the dam, what what is the actual area that is going will!be the area inundated, etc.: to be inundated by the reservoir of because, he says now that it is going this dam. It was when Government to be moved to a higher site. If it agreed to the proposal of Pakistan in is going to be so moved, is that what 19511 that they can have the dam that we have signed, or was it a general we had an idea that certain areas in agreement on principle? the adjoining district would be flooded -by the reservoir. Now comes Therefore, I want to know whether the news that Pakistan has refused in future we are gomg to sign an to rurvey or to give us an idea of the agreement without going into the area that would be flooded by the actual scheme and without knowing reservoir of the dam, not to speak of exactly what will be its implications payjn£! compensation for the damage in practical terms in our territory. that is likelv to be caused to our land. NOw come; also the news that the Sbri Prahhat Kar (Hooghly): We dam will not be in the original site hear that on Saturday Pakistan is but that the dam is going to be of a going to inaugurate this project. bigger size and that it is likely, as Wbeth"r there is an agreement or the Prime Minister has said, that more not. as a result of the dam being areas would be inundated and more opened, there will be certain areas damage would be caused to our which will be flooded. I want to country. know as regards the lands which will be flooded and the persons who will I want to know from the Prime be affected by this flood, what exactly Minister, since Pakistan has taken a are the steps that the Government of unilateral decision to construct the India is going to take in respect of dam and inaugurate it on Saturday, the land and the persons who will be what steps our Government propose affecteq by it. to take to see that damage is not caused to our land, to our territory, 8hri .Jawaharlal Nehru: There is and if it is caused what compenaation no question of our not knowinl the they are going to pay, and whether site: the site is absolutely known this is goi-ng to be linked up with the right from the beginning. yoU can- agreement that we had with Pakistan not have a dam anywhere you Uke. in 1959 or not? It is well known, and all the talks that have taken place previouSly were .Sbrimati Renu Chakravartty (Basir- with the knowledge of the site. But, hat):,Will the Prime Minister assure however well you may know the site, ·the House that before we enter into you have to survey, having regard to CHAITRA 5, 1884 (SAKA) jor Adjournment l.80g the height of the reservoir. wlaat Shri Hem Baraa: May I bow ground it will cover and so o!l. M~ whether it is twelve miles or twelve 01 the land that would be covered is square miles? in Pakistan, but a bit of it crosses the !border. How much it crosses will 8hri Jawahadal Nehru: Obviously depend on the height of the reservoir. an area is in terms of Square miles. It is not a very difficult matter. In Sbri BaDphi '1'IaaJmr (Tripura- ever:y dam the engineers have a mark' Reserved-Sch. Ttibes).: May I know the areas, and we wanted them to do whether it was decided between the that. They have not done that. two Governments, that is India and Roughly, it is our belief, and we are Pakistan, that power will be supplied told bv our engineers that the area to Tripura on a rental basis from this covered will be eight to twelve square Karnafuli project? May I know miles. And it is wooded area, r whether it is a fact or not? understand, not heavily populated. There are probably a few hundred Sbri Jawaharial Nehru: I have not persons living there. quite beard the question. Shri Hem Baraa: It is populated. Mr. Speaker: He is asking whether there is an agreement between this Government and the Government of Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: Well, my Pakistan that power should be sup- infonnation is that a few hundred plied from the Karnafuli I'?wer persons live there. It is populated in house? that sense. Anyhow, whether there are a few hundred or a few thousand, Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: There is proper arrangements should be made no agreement. The agreement stage for their comnensation, for their has not arrived. But in the ·initial rehabilitation. etc. Those arrange- stages we consented to a certain ments can only be made by our own small area; it was thought that it Government, by the Assam Govern- might be four or five square miles or ment. But. nonnally, it should have something like that; and if it was been settled what compensation covered we did not wish to come in should be given by the Pakistan Gov- way of a major hydro-electric scheme ernment, and the area defined, and of theirs. Therefore, it is a nonnal then we could come to an agreement practice for two countries that an and we could look after the persons agreement is arrived at about com- who are removed from there. pensation, about various other things, and about supply of power. It was The Pakistan Government has mentioned that power should be sup- cbosen apparently to act unilaterally. plied by them to us and compensation There is no question of our signing should be paid. But nothing definite anything on the dotted line or any- was settled. where; because, up till now the talks consisted only of having a survey. - Shri BaDphi Thakur: May I know The survey has not taken place, and whether on -account of the decision we do not know exactly what they that power will be supplied from the propose to do, whether the flooding Kamafuli dam construction, the of the area is going to begin. And hydro-electric project in Tripura has even if it begins now i.t will take a been stopped? year or two to cover the whole area. Shrl Jawaharlal Nehru: It was We have protested strongly and the understood that power would be sup- ABsam Government has been warned plied to Tripura and a little later to look after any losses caused to the further afield to Assam. There is no human beings who live there. hard and fast arrangement. But in 1809 Motions MARCH 26, 1962 lOT Ad;Ol£rnment 1810 [Shri Jawaharlal Nehru] Shri Hem Baraa: We would like to the talks between the engineers it be enlightened. was mentioned, and it was more or less agreed to. I do not know what Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: I have no the hon. Member means. doubt that compensation will be paid if our land is covered. I cannot be Mr. Speaker: I have heard suffi- sure if any of our land would be ciently. There is a report in The covered. It is up to them to have Statesman to the effect: ''India to ·their dam and their project India revoke Karnafuli Dam Agreement: comes in only in case some of our Official announcement regarding territory is covered by the dODd India's withdrawal from the agree- waters. I am not yet sure that it will ment islikely to be made soon". Is be covered. there any truth in this? Shrimati ReIlu Chakravartty: The Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: Not revok- Prime Minister said that it wilL be ing any arrangement; but we have covered. Whether it is a bigger area made it clear to them that we reserve or a smaller area, is the point. to ourselves the right to object to a part or whole of the project. Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: That requires a survey. r think it will be Mr. Speaker: They want to discuss covered within a few squire miles: it. What do the Government propose 5 or 6, at the most 12 square miles. to do? Therefore, it has to ~e surveyed. What I can say is, it is up to' them. to Shri JawabarIaJ. Nehru: I do not answer and not to do anything which know what they propose to discuss. will ai!ect our land .. I have given all the facts. There is nothing more to give. I do not know Shrimati Renu Chakravartty: If what hon. Members can discuss about they do not do it, what shall we do? it either. There is no room for Mter all, these people will be dis- discussion about this scheme. placed. We cannot stop the waters. We have got to do something lot" the Shri Hem 1Saru!L: We do not want people. to discuss it. We are only interested in knowing what the Government is Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: That, as I going to do in the face of the fact said, the Assam Government has that Pakistan is going to proceed undertaken to look after them an~' unilaterally in this matter. We heard how. that the agreement in 1959 was to this e!!ect that they can proceed with their Mr. Speaker: I do not think any work on two conditions: firstly, the useful purpose will be served by a length Or area to be inundated has discussion of this matter. Possibly to be surveyed; and secondly, they hon. Members want to drive away must pay compensation for that. Now the water which comes on our land, .fiat they have not honoured that- if that is possible to do it, on aCCOlUlt whether that agreemertt was signed of the intransigence of Pakistan- or not is immaterial-I am interested they have not yet replied-by not in knowing what the Government caring even to make a survey of this propose to do in the face of this land. It is between two neighbOllr!l. action. Whatever might be their di.!!erenCes. when they came to an agreement. Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: Govern- they must do it. Evidently. what hon. ment will do what one Government Members want is if a device could be does to another. We cannot do any- provided by which all this water thing else. I do not know what the which comes up on our land may be hon. Member has in view. drained off without prejudice t? us. I8n Motions CHAITRA 5, 1884 (SAKA) for A Bey<'nd that. I do not know what the ernments. Because, my secretariat Government is expected to do. There too has no information. I wou1d is no purpose in allowing any more request you to allow me to say SOIIU:- discussion on this matter. All that thing finally tomorrow when I am can be done is being done. I refuse going to make a statement on the to . g;ve my consent to this adjourn- basis of my discussion with you which ment motion. took place yesterday. OIL AGREEMENT WITH ITALIAN F:mM Mr. Speaker; Next: Shri P. G. Shrimati Renu Chakravartty; May Deb. What is it? I point out, the Statesman correspon- dent very clearly states the particu1ar Shri P. G. Deb (Angu1): The reason points which the Minister did not why I gave this adjournment motion reveal to the House. Is that correct? is this. Though the Minister of Mines He pin-points the two points on which and Oil did not agree to disclOse the there was some hesitation on the part details of the agreement between the of the Minister. Italian Oil Company and India, the very same details of the agreement Shri K. D. Malaviya: I do not have come out in today's Statesman. remember any particular point' which It surprises me. It is a hit on the I might have withheld from the privilege of the House. Therefore, I House the other day. I made a gene- wou1d ask through you an explana- ral statement expressing my view with tion from the Minister of Oil to let regard to certain advantages that Us know his attitude on this. wou1d accrue to the Government if Smi Hem Barua: There is a Privi- we did not . make public all these :ege Motion on this. agreements that are before us in view of the fact that some more are to be Mr. Speaker: I will come to that negotiated. There was no particular later. How does it appear when we specific point which I tried to with- \vanted some time? hold from the House on that day. I The Minister Of Mines and Oil read in the Statesman today that (Shri K. D. Malaviya): I returned to certain points have ·been made out by the capital only this morning about the correspondent which somehow 9 o'clock. Then I read this news in they got. I still do not know any- the Statesman. I made enquiries thing about that. from my office, and I found out that they too knew nothing about it. Is Shri P. G. Deb; May I know there some journalistic arrangement whl'ther the officials of the Oil between the correspondent C>f the Refinery at Gauhati had g;ven out Statesman sitting in Assam and the this news? Italian capital that they get such information? Anyway, my secre- Shri K. D. Malaviya: Some of our tariat is making enquiries into this. officials have gone to Italy in connec- But, I wou1rl like to draw your atten- tion with discussion and disposal of tion, Sir. that what I read in the the details of the schemes about which newspapers today-most of it has I also made a statement a few months already been conveyed by me to the ago. I do not know whether they House some time in August or Sep- have even come back or not I do not tember. I do not remember the exact know whether they have sent any dates. The basis of .the agreement intimation to us - making certain arrived at between the two Govern- enqwnes or telling us as to what ment. was already indicated by me they have approved or what they then. With regard to these details, I have done or not done. That is why I do not know whether any points or I made this request that tomorrow details have been 1Inally taken up or when I come with that statement OD agreed upon between the two Gov- the general aspect of the whole ques- 1813 Motilms for Ad;oum- MARCH 26, 1962 PapeTS 14id on the 1814 ment Table [Shri K.. D. Malaviya] tiOD, I will also specifically refer \II all. I do not know whether this is DDt this question. a question of abusing democracy IUld our own privileges. I would like \II Mr. Speaker: Very well go into this matter .in detail. It is open to us as guardians of the rights of tile Shri Hem Banaa: The news is from country as a whole to ask the Minister Shillong, 'trom the special correspon- to lay it before us or not. When the dent of the Statesman. All the terms House is good enough to accept ,the of the agreement are given in detail, statement of the han. MilUster and the utilisation of the 50 crore leave it to me to decide whether 'it credit .... ought to be disclOSed to this House or not, unilaterally he goes on further to say-.and he exults over t:h.is-- Shri 1[. D. Malaviya: All this is known to hon. Members if they will "The terms of the contract, which kindly recollect what I have said in the Minister for Oil, Mr. K. D. the past. Malaviya, refused to disclose 'to Parliament, contain the following Shri Hem Barua: The thing is this, crucial points: ...... There was secrecy about letting us know the terms and conditiolls .... [-am really surprised at this. We need not function at all. This newspaper Mr. Speaker: Order, order. This and the correspondent may function. 1 will stand over till tomorrow. Let the will reserve this Privilege Motion till hon. Minjster state what he wants to tomorrow. We will proceed to the next atate to the House. Then, I will allow item. I do not know where we are. an opportunity if necessary to the Members. There is also a Privilege Shri VasudevaD Nair (Thiruvella): Motion tabled by Shri Hem Barua. J [t is a scoop for the newspaper. am really surprised at one or two Mr. Speaker: Wonderful. things. I will reserve that to tomorrow. What appears in the States- man is this. I do not know whether 12.27 hrII. the code of conduct that has to be observed by newspapers will extend PAPERS LAID ON THE TABLE to revealing in the newgpapers what this HoUSe has reserved. The hon. ANNuAL Rzl'oRT OF THE INDIAN Minister has said that there are certain On. Co., LTD. delicate questions in the tenns of 1he agreement which if disclosed will pre- Tile MiDlster of MiDes &lUI on (Stiri judice us and therefore he wanted to 1[. D. Malaviya): I beg to lay on ~ reserve it for hiniself, to keep it confl- Table a copy each of the 1!o1l0Wliig dential even from the House. Then, papers:-' the matter was raised that it must be disclosed to the House. ~, he agreed (i) Annual Report of the Indlail to Show it to me. came to me. J He Oil Company Limited, talked to him. BombaY, for 1he year 1960-61 along with the Audited Accounts and the com- If, even when the House ClIIUlot be ments of ·the Comptroller &rid taken into con:fideDce with respect to Auditor Gen~aI thereon, LIIldti£ certain matters, a correspondent of a sub-section (1) of section 619A O! newspaper from Shillong-this is an the Companies Act, 1956. important newspaper-should take it and expose everything, I do not know (il) Review by the Governmen't W'h.ere we are, whether we are safe at on 1he working of the above Com-:- I8IS Papers CHAITRA 5, 1884 (SAKA) Laid on the Table 1816 P,mY. [P!Dced in Librat"1l. See (b) The Indian Civil Service No. LT-35119/62J. Provident Fund Amendment Rules, 1961 published m Notification No. GSR. 1274 dated the 21st October, NonnCATION& UNDlIiIl TIlL Au. INDIA SDlV1CE8 A£T 1961. [Placed in LibrarI/. See No. LT-3369/611. The MlDister of State In the MIa- .iItry of Home Mairs (Shri Datar): I (iv) a copy each of the following beg to relay on the Table:- Notifications making. certain . amendments to the Secretary of (i) a copy of each ot the tolIow- State's Services (General Provi- in/! Notifications making certain dent Fund) Rules, 1943, under Bub- amendments to Schedule m to the 9I!Ction (2) of section 3 of the An Indian Pollce Service (Pay) India Services Act, 1951:- Rules, 1954, under sub-section (2) of section 3 of the All India Ser- (a) GSR No. 1275 dated the 21s! vices Act, 1951:- October. 1961. (a) G. S. R. No. 1066 dated \b) GSR No. 1276 dated the 21st the 2nd September, 1961. October, 1961. [Placed in Lib~ 1 (b) G. S.R. No. 1091 dated Tary. See No. LT-3370/61 . the 9th September, 1961. (c) G. S. R. No. 1233 dated NOTIFICATlONS UNDER THE COPYRIGHT ~ 7th October, 1961. [Placed in ACT. Library. See No. LT-3366/61.]. The Minister of ScientUi.c Research and Cultural Mairs (Shri HlIDI&yuJl (til a copy of each of the fIolIow- Kabir): I beg to lay on the Table a irIg Notifications making certain copy each of the following Notifications amendments to Schedule to the m under section 43 ot the Copyright Act, Indian Administrative Service 1957, making certain further amend- (Pay) Rules, 1954, under sub- ments to the International Copyright !leCfion (2) ot section 3 ot the All India Services Act, 1951:- Order. 1958:- (a.) G. S. R. No. 1244 dated (i) S. O. No. 3039-A dated the !be 14th October, 1961. 23rd December. 1961. \ (ii) S. O. No. 1 dated the 1st (b) G. S. R. No. 1246 dated January, 1962. the 14th oCtober. 1961. [Placed in Library. See No. LT-3367; 81]. ' (iii) S. o. No. 144 dated the 12th January, 1962. (iii) a copy el\ch of the fIollowing Rules, under sub-secti.Qn (2) of (iv) S. O. No. 671 dated the 1st IIeCtion 3 of the All India Services March, 1962. Act. 1.951: . (v) S. O. No. 723 dated the 11th (a) The All India Services (Tra- Maroh, 1962. velling Allowances) ~dment Rules, 1961 publislu!d in Notifica- (vi) S. O. N~. 7240 dated the lZ1;h tion No. G. S. R. 1125 dated the March, 1962. [Placed in Library. 16th September, 1961. [Placed See No. LT-3600/62]. in Libra",. See No. LT-3368/ 11]. l8I7 Papers Laid on the Table MARCH 26, 1962 Estimates Committee 1818 NOTlYICATIONS UNDER THE CENTRAL Order, 1962 published in Notifica- EXCISES AND SALT ACT AND NOTIFICA- tion G. S. R. 375 dated tihe' 17th TIONS UNDER THE SEA CUSTOMS ACT AND March, 1962. [Placed ill Library. THE CENTRAL ExCISES AND SALT ACT. See No. LT-36M/62]. Tlae Deputy Minister of / FiDaDee (Shrimati Tarkesbwari SiDha): On NOTIFICATIONS UNDER FOIII:IGN Ex- behalf of Shri B. R. Bhagat, I beg to . CHANG!: REGULATION ACT. lay on the Table-- Shrimati Tarkeshwari Sinha: I beg (i) a ropy of the Central Excise to lay on: the Table a copy each of the (Fourth Amendment) Rules, 1962 fallowing Notifications under sub. published in Notification No. G.S.R. 8ection (3) of section 27 of the Foreign 386 dated the 10th March, 1962, Exchange Regulation Act, 1947, making under section 38 of the Central Ex- certain further amendments to the cises and Salt Act, 1944. [Placed in Foreign Exchange Regu1atian Rules, Library. See No. LT-360l/61]. 1952:- (ii) a copy each of the following (i) GSR No. 50 dated the 13th Notifications under sub-section (4) January 1962. m section 43B of the Sea Customs Art, 1878 and section 38 m the (ii) GSR No. 264 dated the 3rd Cultral Excises and Soalt Act, 1944, March, 1962. [Placed in Library. making certain further amend- See No. LT-3605/62]. ments to the Customs and Central EJreise Duties Export Drawback (General) Rules, 1960:- 12.38 brs. (a) G.S.R. No. 287 dated the ESTIMATES COMMITTEE 10th March, 1962. HUNDRED AND SIXTIETH, HUNDRED AND (b) G.S.R. No. 288 dated the SIXTY-FIRST AND HUNDRED AND SIX!'Y- 1()th March, 1962. . SECOND RI:PoRTS (c) G.S.R. No. 239 dated the 8mi Daliappa (Bangalore): I beg to 111h March, 1962. [Placed in Lib- present the follow:ing Reports of the TflTy. See No. LT-3602/62]. Estimates Committee:- URDERS UNDER TIlE EsSENTIAL (l) Hundred and sixtieth Report COMMODITIES ACT. on the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting (Part IU)--Oftice of The Deputy Minister of FoOd (Shrl the Registrar of Newspapers for A. M. Thomas): I beg to lay on the India, Research and Reference Table a COpy each of the following Division and Photo Division; Orders under sub-section (6) of sec- tion 3 of the Essential Commodities (2) Hundred and sixty-first Re- Act, 1955:- port on the Ministry of Commerce and Industry-All India Handi- (i) The Roller Mills Wheat Pro- craft6 Board and Indian Handi- ducts (Price Control) Order, 1962 cnifts Develoment Corporation published in Notification No. G.S.R. Limited; ipld • 37. dated the 17th March, 1962. [Placed in Library, See No. LT- (3) Hundred and sixty-seCIIIId 3603/62]. Report on the Ministry of Com- merce and Industry--Ofllce of 11M! Iii) The Delhi Roller Flour Mills Textile Commissioner (Part I). Wheat Products (Price Control) Fina.nce '1Ii!! CHAIlI'RA 5, 1884 (SAKA) Fina.nce Bill 1820 32.31 hrs. all our e1forts to arrest it. Even the Plalming Commission was faced with 'FINANCE BILL, 11H1~nttl.. this problem when it was drafting the Report on the Third Plan. It was found Mr. Speaker: The House wilil now that even at the end of the Third Plan, JII'OCeed with further consideration of We would not succeed in finding em- the following motion moved by Shri ployment fOr all the people in the "1tiorarji Desai Dn the 24th March t962, country. The Commission has sug- mamely:- gested certain remedies. But I do not know whether we will succeed in ''That the Bill to continue for the solving this problem in full. .financial year 11162-63 the existin« 'rates of income-tax and super-tax I was very much interested when I and to provide for the oontinlWlCe read the speeeh of the Finance Minis- of certain commitments under the ter of my State. while introducing the 'General Agreement on Tariffs and Budget in the Kerala State Assembly 'Trade and the discontinuance or. recently. He has given some figures- the duty on salt for the said year, staggering figures, I should say-about 'be taken into consideration". th employment position in our State. In 1959. more than a lakh of applicants Two hours had been allotted for the registered themselves in the employ- iBill. The hon. Finance Minister moved ment exchanges, whereas they could 'the Bill for consideration and I placed find employment that year only for 'the motion before the House on the 9,487 people. The same picture is 'previous day. How long win the han. given for 1960; more than a lakh of "Minister take to reply? people registered their names and only a little over 11,000 people could be The Minister of Finance (Shrl accommodated. The picture of 1961 re- 'Morarji Desai): It all depends. I do veals the same position, althDugh a few 'not know what will be said. There is more could be accommodated; more nothing in the Bill to be said. than a lakh of people registered their names and only 14,000 people could be Mr. Speaker: Shan I reserve 20 absorbed m the various industries or cminutes? other places where they could find em- ployment. So we can see that the huge Shri Morarji Desai: I have no idea. gap between the number of people registering and the number of people Mr. Speaker: Anyhow, I will reserve who got employment remains, and it is fhalf an hour for the hon. Minister. Let a very serious problem that should be ?US see. tackled by Government; otherwise, We are not going to reach anywhere in Shri Vasudevan Nair (Thiruvella): spite of all talI talk about the Plans During the budget debate, many han. and all that, I doubt whether at this :lI4embers had drawn the attention of rate even during our lifetime we will 'Government afld the Minister to SDDle be able to eradicate this disease of un- ·of the most important problems facing employment from India. us today. For example, many Mem- 'bers referred to the acute unemploy- I want to deal with a particular ment problem, the problem of rising aspect of this problem, because al· prics and many other Jfroblems. But tho~ we are building up new indus- unfortunately, the Finance Minister tries---,and We are talldng about the had very little to say last time in reply new templl!!l of worshlp that we are 'to the points made by my hon. friends. building up-the fact remains that 80IJIe of the oldest industries in th~ It is accepted by alI that unemploy- country, traditional industries, are 'ment is really mounting u.p in spite of ~rackWIg up. This problem was posed :20 11 (Ai) LS--l. • 1821 l"inance Bill MARCH 26, 1962 Fillancl Bill [Shri ilasudevan Nair] before this House for a long time on same, we have to examine whether the many occasions by many hon. Mem- agencies that were set up for putting bers. Here again, I am looking at the this industry on a proper footing and. situation in the traditional and age-old helping it to get out of. the crisis have industries in my own State. We have done their duty well. I shall come to some labour-intensive industries in the that later. form of coir and cashewnut. As a matte r of fact, as far as Kerala is con- cerned, the coir industry is the oldest This is not a problem concerning one in our State and as a whole in all the particular place or one particular in- branches of this industry more than" dustry. That is why I wanted to pose lakh people had been employed. Na- this problem before the Mindster and turally, you can understand how vital this House. Recently when I was in this industry is for the people of Madhya Pradesh. I was approached by Kerala. There are mainly two branch- workers working in the iron ore mines es in this industry. One is the manu- of Rajgarh near Bhilai. Nearly 10,000 facturing sector, the industry manu- people are working in the mines. Very facturing coir mats etc. A few years recently when these mines were mech- ago, nearly 50,000 workers had been anised, large numbers, thousands of employed in the coastal belt of Ambal- workers, were thrown out of employ- apuzha and Shertallai taluks in this ment. YQu cannot, of course, insist industry. Now the sad plight of this that the mines should always be work- industry is indicated in the fact that it ed On the old basis. that they should is capable of employing and absorbing not be mechanised. I do realise that only 14,000 workers for 15 years now. when We are having new techniques That means' this industry is passing and mechanisation is coming, there will through a very serious crisis for the be the problem of replacement of last 15-20 years. As a matter of fact, workers from one industry to another by exporting coir products, our cotm- or from one place to another, but I was try used to earn valuable foreign ex- surprised to see that the authorities change to the tune of nearly Rs. 10 there in charge of this, those who were crores annually. it used to employ, tackling this problem, were not at all as I said, 50,000 workers. Actually, a concerned about the fate and the few years back, when ·there was no future of more than 5,000 Workers who· Kerala State as such but we had our were making a living by working in native States, in the State of Travan- these iron' mines and who were thrown. core, the town of Alleppey used to out when the mines were mechanised. occupy a place of pride. It was the most important commercial and indus. This very same problem to a certain' trial town. Whoever used to pas. extent applies to the cashew nut indus- through that area at that time could try in our State. The same problem see the prosperous life of the workers faced the handloom industry allover who used to get full employment and who used to enjoy life with the worlr the country some time back, and we- know what steps were taken by they had in this industry. But the same the persons passing through that area now Government of India as well as 1he- can see only dilapidated factories. Ac- State Governments to see that that in- tually. the town now present. a gloomy dustry was saved from. utter ruin and> and dim picture. Nothing substantial destruction. ~ that way proper atten- was done till now to help this indUII- tion has to be given to the entire sec· try out of trus seriOUII crJsia. tor of our old and traditional indus- tries in every part at India, so that The most important problem is that even when a transformatiOn takes' of the foreign market. I realise that place, there is the least pain felt by the .it is a very complicated problem. It is workers and other interests connected 1I0t very euy to tackle, but an the with that indullfry;, Finance Bill CHAITRA 5, 1884 (SAKA) Finance Bill r824 When there was a crisis in the coir recommendation on the petition that industry, this very House dicided to is before, it. This petition is now going set up a Coir Board to deal with the before the Committee which will be various problems facing the industry. constituted by the new House. This The Coir Board was Set up in 1954. itself shows that the Commerce and About the composition of the Coir Industry Ministry is not treating this Board and various other matters con- problem with the responsibility that is nected with the functioning of the expected Of them. That is one of the Coir Board, I have many things to say, reasons why till now we have tailed, 'but I reserve them for another occa- miserably failed, in helping this indus- sion. That is not the most important try to get out of the very serious and thing that I want to bring to the atten- acute crisis that is facing it. iion of the Minister. The performance of the Coir Board Some of the unions of the workers also is thoroughly unsatisfactory. I was working in this industry have submit- going through the Report ot the Esti- ted a comprehensive and positive mates Committee presented to the memorandum to the State Govern- House a few days back. This report ment and the Union Government, and on the Coir Board is a very important a copy of that memorandum was one which has to bo [0112 through presented to this hon. House by Shri seriously. The Estimates Committee has P. T. Punnoose, M.P., and now that come to the conclusion that the Coir memorandum is being considered by Board has failed in almost everything the Committee on Petitions at this that it was expected to do. I do not House. There again, I have to make want to quote extensively from this a complaint, because, being a Member Report, but it is very interesting to of the Petitions Committee, I can say know that after the constitution of the that the Commerce and Industry Coir Board, exports have actually gone Ministry which is to submit all the down. One of the most important task facts before the Committee could not entrusted to the Coir Board was to see submit these facts about the coir that the international market was ex- industry before the Committee during panded, to explare the possibilities of the last four months. This petition expanding our exports. The Estimates was presented to the House on 7th Committee, drawing our attentIon to December, 1961, and when we had a this, say in page 7 of their Report: sitting of the Petitions Committee last week, we were told that the Ministry "It is thUs apparent that there had sent only an interim reply, that has not been any appreciable the they were waiting for facts and im?rovement in the volume nor figures from the Coir Board, the State any change in the pattern of Government and other agencies. I export trade since the establish- am really surprised that an industry ment of the Board." which employs nearly four lakhs of workers, industry which is very 'm On page 8, the Estimates Committee closely connected with the fortunes of has to say this on another aspect of the nearly a million people in a particular functioning of the Coir Board: State in India, is not looked after with proper care by the Commerce and Industry Ministry. Otherwise I do not "Thus, the task of the Board in know why they ar~ taking '0 tar as promotion of exports is so much time in. providing concerned has indeed been a the necessary facts and difficult one. Even so, it was and figures before a Committee of this possible for the Board to adopt Parliament. The Petitions Committee certain measures which, if they of this House which will be wound up had been taken in time, could when this House is dissolved ,is not perhaps have averted this stagna- !lpl~ to take a decision, to make any tion." 1825 Finance Bill MARCH 26, 1962 Finance Bm 11126 [Shri Vasud.evan Nair] So the Estimates Committee has come Board which is entrusted with the to' the conclusion that some of the task of saying an industry which Dn1:)()rtant steps which it was possible employs lakhs Of workers has miser- to take were not taken by the Board, ably failed in its duty; and the Com- and that is one of the reasons for the merCe and Industry Ministry of the IItagnation in the cDir industry. Union Government which are also looking after the fate of this industry Again, the Estimates Committee are not doine justice to this industry. gives this certificate to the Coir Board on page 10: Because of this, after waiting for a long time, after giving memoranda ''The manner in which the work and after doing everything possible, the regarding the Coir Research Insti- workers in this particular area have tute was undertaken gives the now decided to launch an agitation. impression of being casual. Two Of course, the Finance Minister may years in carrying out additions\ say that the workers are always after alterations and another year in agitation. I do not know. But they providing electrical connection to have no other way out now. So, on an essential service like a Re- April 2, these workers are starting a search Institute is too long a satyagraha before the Alleppy Col- period. Delays of a procedural lectorate in order to draw the urgent nature at any rate should not have attention of the authorities concerned, been allowed to hamper work on because they cannot wait any longer. an important item like research More and more workers the being work." thrown out of employment every day. Again on page 12, the Estimates One suggestion put forward by the Committee has no tribute to be paid Coir Board and the Kera1a Govern- to th" Coir Board: on the other hand, ment with the sanction of the Union they have only criticism for the func- Government is that this industry tioning Of the Board. This is what should be immediately mechanised. they say: They say that we can compete with the goods produced in some other "The Committee are not satis- countries only if this industry is fied with the explanation for the mechanised as soon as possible. delay of four years in the framing and finalisation of these rules." Mechanisation cannot be considered in abstract. If mechanisation is taken The Coir Board was established in in hand immediately, what is going 1954, and they issued the Coir to happen is that out of the 15,000 Industry (Regulation and Licensing) workers that are now employed, per- Rules which were finalised only after haps, 10,000 may be thrown out of four years. About that the Estimates employment immediately. So, instead Committee says: of helping to get more employment, mechanisation without proper alter- ''They (the Estimates Com- nate employment for those workers mittee) feel that every effort who will be thrown out of employ- should be made by Government ment will be a disaster. Therefore, to ensure that the rules and regu- the l~bour unions of the workers and lations of such .bodies are framed 'those connected with the industry as early as possible and preferably have pleaded with the Kerala Govern- within a year of their constitu- ment that they should not proceed tion." with the scheme of mechanisation This very valuable report of the without giving proper attention to the Estimates Committee of the Lok problem of giving alternate employ- Babba points out that a very important ment. So, this is the only alternative Finance Bill CHAITRA 5, 1884 (SAKAl Finance Bill 1828 that could be posed by the coir Board As I said in the beginning, this is and the State Government before the not an isolated problem of a particular workers; and the workers feel that area or a particular State. I have said already they are being thrown out of that there are many centers of indus- employment and the scheme of try like this in our country-oldest. mechanisation without alternate em- industries and traditional industries ployment would put them in still in many of our States-which indus- greater trouble. tries have, perhaps, to be replaced by new industries. But it will take time. These workers belonging to this l'Iuch industries will have to be particular belt have a glorious tradi- mechanised in course of time.' Some tion of waging battles in our freedom new devices have to be found out for struggle and they had been all along reconstituting the pattern of these expecting so much from our national industries. All this will take time. government by way of more employ- So, we should have smaller plans for ment and by way of new industries such particular areas and such plans in that area Without new industries should be prepared only with the 70U cannot find any solution to this help of the Union Government. The problem because, ultimately, this coir State Governments cannot tackle the industry by itself cannot employ all particular problem of this particular the new applicants who are coming area I am speaking about, the coastal up for employment in that particular belt of Alleppy. It is an area which area. So, the people of this area have deserves the immediate attention of been demanding other activities, indus- the State Government as well as the tries, railways and all that. And, it is Union Government. And, I would a long-standing demand of the people plead with the Finance Minister to pay of this area that there should be a serious attention to this problem and ..rail link between Cochin and Mave- to see that the coir industry is helped likkara which may help to get them as much as possible to stand on its employment, for a large number of own legs. them, at least for some time. Mr. Speaker: Are there any hon. Members who want to participate In There is a port at Alleppy which the debate? used to employ thousands of workers at one time. But, today, you cannot Shri N. R. Manlswam7 rose- find even 1,000 workers there because that also is going down. Something Mr. Speaker: All the three stages has to be done to see that more em- of the Bill have to be completed in ployment is given to the workers 3 hours. There are no amendments working in this port. It is not only a to the clauses. We will go on with problem of the workers. It should the general discussion till 2.00; and not be understood in that sense, Tens the hon. Minister may take some time. of thousands of workers being thrown Then I will put the clauses to the out and factory after factory lIeing vote. dosed down means that the entire area suffers, the trade sulfers and the people Shri N. B. MlIIIilrwam7 (Vellore): suffer. And that particular area has Sir, I may be ,permitted to make cer- to be looked after not only by the tain observations about a 'few of the State Government; but I will plead items, which are very essential, for :with the Finance Ministeroof the Cent- the Finance Minister's conside1'8tion. ral Government to see that something First is the fixation of the prices of is done immediately so that disaster essential commodities, commodities does not overtake ,this population and essential for the community. The these workers who have a glorious Finance 1Wnister has also stated that tnclition of ftghting.for the':freedam the rise hi prices has, been checked of our counu.". su1Itciently well :because of the 1829 Finance Bill KARCH 21. 1962 Finance Bm [Shri N. R. Muniswamy] competition in other sectors. With have been doing things in a big way, all that we are aware that many of and naturally ,",e have been taking in the commodities which are essential a way, a step-motherly attitude as for our everyday life are sold in the regards the villages and the conditions market at very high rates. Unless in the villages and the people who the Finance Minister takes courage in live there. The rural aspect of our his hands to fix the prices of all the plans has to be attended to a great essential commodities, the life of the deal. The Plan must be from the community would be very miserable. below instead of from the top. Especially, the middle class people and the upper middle class people It is stated that whatever plan is. are suffering a lot because their being formulated in the interests of income is fixed and the rise in prices the country as a whole will percolat& bas no relation to their emoluments. to the lower level also. Greater For this purpose, during the war attention could not be given to the period they had passed certain Ordi- rural areas if we concentrate all our nances and they had the Defence of efforts on big projects and industries India Rules whereby the prices of only in a big way and in big areas. commodities had been fixed and any- I would suggest that we must see the body who sold at higher rates wOlild position of the ryots and the condition be caught and dealt with according of the people in the villages_ We to law. Similarly, if such severe steps must get periodical reports, fIIllce in are now taken at this stage, it may six months or a year, from the Dis- not augur well for our country. trict Collectors Or the heads of the samitis or panchayat union and other lUS hrIi. agencies whiCh we have got, and t() whom we have given more powers. [SBRI HEDA in the Chair.] The periodical reports are essential. Of course, the 'work is looked after Therefore, initially they can take by the State Governments, but, all the steps so far as articles of food are same, whatever attention is devoted concerned, which are very essential, to all these aspects, I wiSh that there like sugar and other things. The is a method by which we can insist prices should be fixed. By so dohig upon a plan or a report being We will be helping. I should say, 60 receiving trom the District Collectors. per cent. of the population of our country because they would be sure India bas about 350 districts, and to of the value of every commodity for have a complete control over all these which they pay money. Unless some districts in all the States of this coun- direct steps are taken to see that the try directly, is something unconstitu- prices of these commodities are fixed tional. but so far as the economic -and not by adopting other methods dl!\>elopment is concerned, in order to of reducing the prices by inftation or see that the villages are best fitted by increasing production of agricul- into the plans, it is better that we get tural or industrial articles-by some ueriodical reports, at least in respect legislation, I think, we are heading of certain important aspects such' as towaros certain economic crisis. roads and communications and small or minor irrigation. Minor irriga- tion is very -essential for the villagers, since they depend more on 11ft irri- gation and other small minor irriga- So far as planning is concerned, tion works. They do not get any may be permitted to say a few words. channels or canals from any perennial WI! have been making plans for big rivers in many areas. In some areas, industries. AIl a matter of fact, we perennial supply of water is not Finance Bm CHAlTRA 5, 1884 (SAKA) Finance 3m possible, and the people depend only three years, and we have to step up on wells and seasonal rains. In such our production. To develop every --areas, we must see that small irriga- area and every village, it is always tion facilities are afforded to them in better that we allot about a crore of order that their position is improved. rupees or even Rs. 2 crores to each 'X'he facilities that we give them may village. The District Collector must be charged by levying betterment be asked to formulate his own scheme taxes or any taxes that are possible for his district and see that thc money according to the law. I would, there- that has been allotted to the extent of fore insist that small irrigation facili- Rs. 2 crores or SO is spent by him · ties: instead of big projects, must be through a small committee or his own. usefully initiated and embarked upon. We have planners at the Centre. So far as the supply of electricity There are planners also at the _district -is concerned, 1 must point out that the and the State levels. But the planners Madras State tops the list. There are have not given proper thought to see -15 States in our country, and barring that a separate allotment is made to Madras State, the other States have every district and that elementary got about 12,000 villages only which facilities are provided for every -have got electricity. But the Madras village. The other day, the hcn. · State alone has got about the same Minister of Finance was not II\n:e of a number of villages which have this particular aspect that has been men- service. To that extent, _the villages tioned in the manifesto, such as, for -in the Madras State stand a better example, approach roads and water- chance. Bl:~ still, the villages in other supply. It has been stated categori- • States also must get electric supply cally that in the course of the third 'which wi!: help the villagers not only Five Year Plan such facilities should in the matter of irrigation but small be completed. i know it is not possi- industries also. In some States, I do ble to have such facilities afforded to -not find small industries at all in some every village during the course of the · taluks or divisions. We have got Cel'- next five years. I do understand the · tain industries only in certain locali- difficulty and the enormous amount o ties and they have not percolated to that should be invested to make these {lther areas. Therefore, I would sug- facilities available to all the villages. -gest the starting of small-scale All the same a begining has to be -industries with a view to keep the made and that must be made by educated people employed and also asking every district collector and -to see that the other people who such other authority to formulate his are self-employed are drawn to this. own scheme or programme, and it -Necessary provision must be made to must be checked up by the Govern- 'this end. Small-scale industries must ment. After all, during the recent be started in almost all taluks. other- elections, many of Us have felt that -wise, the facilities and the employ- when we have to go to the interior of -ment potential that are available will the villages, we have had to travel 'be concentrated on certain areas only. with great difficulty, from the branch- 'These facilities must be diverted to ing of the main road onwards. The ;the villages and the taluks. roads in the interior and the approach roads are not at all kept in proper 'In getting the periodical reports repair. Most of thE' roads have got '£rom the districts, we must see to one ups and downs, and it is very difficult important aspect. Every year, WI' even to go on them in our old motor- must allot about a crore of rupees for cars, since the space on the ro:ads is each ~istrict. We have now spent very little. Nowadays, the bIg cars -about Rs. 2.500 crores in the first two are such that there is not -enough years. The balance of Rs. 5,000 crores space for any movement on either .. or so has to be spent for the next side of the car on these narrow roads, Finance Bm MARCH 26, 1952 F.iflooee Bill: [Shri N. R. MuniswamyJ and there is not much space between present, the roads are. very sulshy the main body and the rear also. during the ramy season. One cannot. That is why I am saying that the even walk, not even the bullock-cart condition of the roads must be looked can go on, such roads,· since they get into, 'so that the villagers can easily stuck up in the slushy area. There- take their products to the cities. The fore, I request that these aspects, approaCh roads have to be given pro- should be borne in mind before any- per attention. If that is done, the thing can be thought of in a big way. villagers will be quite happy because The Government are· spending not. they can carry on their marko:!ting a small amount. The. amount exceeds business with the nearest market. Rs. 7,5OQ crores. during the next three' Another important thing is pure years. If the villages are' not made· drinking water. I have seen villages to realise the huge amount we are where the people have to go about spending for their betterment, I a mile or six furlongs to fetch water, should say we are neglecting the man, and the ladies have to go with one in the interior. The neglected man. vessel and keep the water for the has to be taken care of. For example,. entire day, for 24 hours. If the in a house if'the father has got four' members of the family are larger in children and one of them is handi- namber, they will have' to make one capped~ither it does not have one' more trip. Therefore, it is better that eye or some limb is defective--it the' villagers are given pure drinking shOUld be given some extra milk,. water within reach. It do.e3 not ghee, etc. If the other children ask matter if the supply is not a ptotected why they also should not be given one. Well water could be. connected something extra, we should say we' to pipes and fhe supply thus effected.. have got more sympathy for the' Pure drinking water is very essential, handicapped child. Likewise, if the and the approach roads are equally villagers who are far away from the' essential. Along with these two dynamism of town" life are' given good things, minor irrigation is also water-supply, and' approach roads,. essential. Then they will thinlt they will be quite happy. More often that fredom has really dawned it happens that people who are' and has eome to their homes and to· vociferous and'vocal take' much of the their very doors. In fact, many of benefit which should' go to the the sites of these huge projects. which neglected' man. Because the neglected' we are having have not been seen man is at a distance and' does not even, by the villagers in t1ie interior' linow' how to epproach, he' must be.- .parts of the country. If pure water' taken' care of we must have' II distant supply is made available and' vision and' provide fOr the neglected' approach roads. and minor i=igatiDD:. man- in tlie interior.· SO, vin'kges in' schemes are taken up, they wiU- the interior lihould' be taken care of" realise that freedom has come- to them' and' proviaed with ·good wa1:l!l"-supply' and they wtll be .conscious of tHe.: ami' approach roaas, so that we can' Pian. -Then. we .. can·.get their' co- get; their. sympathy. and - co'"Operation- operation and enlist their· sYmpathY" in a smootH way, without anT for the Government. They will Begin' dlsturHance. to think that after all. these l5tJ years- or so they are at least ltaving> today' Sbri nunoose (Ain1:\arapuz'ha) : r pure drinking. water. So, they will would 'liXe· to start where the previous' feel, very . haPll'". By means of' the' speaker left. When we eX'!lIIline the approach roads. they could' go to the picture of' India's development. we- nearest market and have' their produce have' to make up our mind as to who- sold. Let them reacli. t1\e' marltet at is the·.negIected·man and which is the- 1Hst by lcatcJlG:" 1Ilrimf clas~' roadlr and' l1andtcappe4' emlll.· A1ter ten years .at neeesn:riIT. ..,.. 1rrst class ones. At: of t_~in, tbit HbIue,. r ft!el' embar- Finance Bill CHAITRA 5, 1884 (SAKAl Finance Bil! rassed to fix which exactly is the My friend. Shri Vasudevan Nair, handicapped child, because every referred to the condition of the coir Member gets up and pleads for thl' industry. It is something that affects handicapped child. It would appear lakhs and lakhs of people in the that there are only handicapped Kerala State. Without the coir indus- children in this country, but there are try and lakhs of workers it employs, some children which are quite healthy the State would be really famine- and not handicapped. stricken. For years now that industry has been deteriorating. but the Gov- ernment have been able to do very First of all, Government of India little towards. its amelioration. The and the Planning Commission should Coir Board has been set up, of cour~e. make up their mind as to which parts But very serious criticisms have been of the country are really backward. made even by the Estimates Com-· This is a very serious flaw in our mittee against thi. Board. The very planning, because very often we talk composition of that Beard is defective· in general terms about backward and it is high time Government looked areas, but at the same time, we have into it. A reorganisation of the Board . no criteria. We have not fixed which and the industry is absolutelv essen- . areas really want more particular tial. care. Planning is supposed and ex- pected to unify this country further These plections have .hown that and cement our freedom, but I am there is a lot of pent-up discontent in afraid it is working quite the reverse this country. The Prime Minister way. Large sections of people, large . who tour.. d the c~untry felt that on areas of this country feel that they the whole the people were improving. are neglected. I am sure his eyes did not deceive him. But I feel what has happened is that there is an appearance of pros- If you go to the south, you will perity amongst certain vocal sec~ions, find every man complaining that his who have become a little prosperous. section of people and his part of India I am not referring to the very wealthy are neglected. The other day, the people who have become wealthier; Prime Minister in his reply to the nobody likes it. But even the debate on t.he President's Address medium wealthy have become a said that there are certain deplorable developments in this country. Every- little wealtheir, and I do not deplore - body will agree with that, but what it either. Towns on the whole im- proved a little with the result that· exactly is it dues to? He referred to the upper middle classes in the towns the DMK in the south rather in a haye 'become a little more prosperous. harsh way and said, even at the eost But the larger sections of people in of war, we are not going to allow this country to be divided. I do not think present. What appears on the surf'lce is the opinion of the upper middle" such a militant attitude alone will class and the small sections that have solve the problem. It requires a become a little prosPerous. . The fact . little more attention and examination. is that large sections of our people, The fact is, in the south, there i~ a including agricultural workers, quaIl' . feeling that they arl' neglected, from peasants and lower middle class every point of view. May be certain people have not improved their posi- - areas are slightly better off than some other areas, but on the whole, the tion at all. feeling prevails that the south does not get a square deal. The DMK and You will see this if . you examine such forces try to thrive on these closely the election results. The feelings. We have to examine them Prime Minister said ·that the local and ftnd out where exactly. the snag issues decided the' trend of the elec- lies and try to remove It. tions in 'varioUs cases. If you ex.amiae .- 1837 .z.'inance Bill MARCH 26, 1962 Finance Bill [Shri Punnoosel 'the Kerala election results, you will the States which require immediate 'See that all-India issues have decided attention. Let Us not talk in the air; 'the trend of the votes. When elections let us work out the States that· deserve were held for the State Assembly in special care. Take five or ten years Xerala, in 1960 people voted over- and see that these States get such Whelmingly for the Congress and assistance during that period. You other parties, but in the parliamentary will find that from any point of view elections, they definitely voted against Kerala requires particular care. We the Congress Party. It was not merely have to take care of those problems a local feeling, but the protest, that immediately. For ('xample, take the Government of India is neglecting the coir industry of Kerala. Kerala is a interests of the State, that has very backward State, even in the weig~ed with the voters; and we matter of railways. Even then, in the have to do something to meet this. Third Plan we have not been given one inch of railways. This injustice should not continue fOr long. I would request the Finance Minister to take "The Prime Minister also referred to immediate steps to develop the back- -certain feudal forces gathering stren- ward areas so that every section of ,gth and going in a big way among the our people will feel, everv area of our ·people canvassing their votes. Here country will feel, that we are engaged also we have to take positive measures. in a common endeavour of developing I am not referring to repressive our oountry. That is how we can measures. We must take such a stand strengthen the unity of India. If we whlC'h will not add to the respect- want to make the unity ot India more ability of the feudal elements. The secure, we have to make our people Prime Minister deplores this develop- believe that they ar.e partners in a ment of the resurgence of the princely common endeavour. I hope the Gov- elements, but at the same time, his ernment and thl\, Planning Commis- ·Government gives them the occasion sion will take particular care to to put up a bright aPPE'arance. Either balance the economic development ot on the occasion of the visit of the this country betwel"n various sections ·Queen or of the visit of 'Mrs. Kennedy, of people and various States of India. they are given an opportunity to · boost themselves up and gather more prestige among the people. At the same time, the Prime Minister gets up Shri Barish Chandra Mathur in the Lok SaJbha and deplores that (Pali) : I wish to take this oppor- these people are having more and tunity to say a few wOrds, not that more respectability among the people. there is something very much in the We have to be positive about these Finance Bill, but becaUSe I wish the things. ~ In the first place. let us not hon. Finance Minister to take note of give them occasion to put on airs what we say now in this House while among the people. he is framing his real budget to be presented to the next Parliament and that he chalks out a policy for the further development and growth of Then, by more positive measures, this country. we have to see that the benefit of the Plan goes to vaster sections of our people. My hon. friend from the Congress benches just now asked the Finance Before concluding would once Minister to fix the prices of the again request the hon. Finance various essential commodities. While Minister to see and judjre which are I share hi. anxiety for lowering down Finance Bill CHAITRA 5, 1884 (SAKA) Finance Bill 1840 the prices, I cannot contribute my say that we must have a realistic support to this idea of the fixation of approach to the entire problem, and prices. Fixation of prices of essen- the problem regarding the loans to tial commodities necessarily means the State Governments and the rate controls and, consequently, corruption. of interest must be given due consi- I am strongly opposed to it when it deration. You might have noticed is not at all warranted. It is only that some of the State Chief Minis- through taxation measures, through ters who are also dealing with the fin- our fiscal policies, through efficient ance portfolio have given considerable production at an increased level that thought to this matter and in their the prices of the commodities could budget speeches, which they are now be brought down in the real sense, presenting to their respective Legis- and that is the only course which all latures, they have raised this impor- the hon. Members here have advocat- tant question. ed, ecept the solitary exception of one hon. Member who has demanded the fixation of prices in an arbitrary Then I come to matters with which manner. the Central Government is exclusive- ly concerned. I wish to draw the Having said that, I wish to refer to attention of the hon. Finance Minis- certain important matters which are ter to certain strong trends which are occupying our thoughts. I would, in developing in our country now, a very the first instance, refer to one parti- aggressive indication of which is cular case where the State Govern- being given by the business communi- ments are concerned, and that is the ty and the capitalist world of India. position of the Central loans to the We have noticed during these past State Governments and the rate of in- ten years, sitting in Parliament, that terest. This matter has been agitated the business community, the industrial by the various State Governments and community of this country. was almost though it does not fall within the apologetic, and this Government, the scope of the Finance Commission and Congress Government have on their could not be dealt with by them. I own initiative, in the interests of the hope the hon. Finance Minister will general development of the country, give his particular attention to this never hesitated in giving them all matter. If it is only to give him satis- the necessary assistance, whether faction to have certain paper accounts financial or otherwise. Today I am regarding his loans to the State Gov- not in the least worried about the ernment, repayment and the rate of feudal order about which my friend interest which he i. charging to them, talked about. The feudal order then it is anothp.r matter. I want has gone, and gone for ever, a realistic appraisal of the entire and U anybody is dreaming situation to be taken and the hon. of reviving the feudal order, I think Finance Minister to tell us the entire he is living in a fool's paradise. I do amount of loans which have been not see how we can revive the feudal advanced, further loans which will be order in that sense, how we can revive necessitated and the rate of interest the Rajas and Maharajas in that sense, that he is chargin.e; and what he how we can revive the jagirdars in thinks will be payable by the State that sense; that is almost an impossi- bility and nobody gives serious though Government. or serious consideration to this matter. But I definitely feel that a big indus- As I stated when I spoke the other trial empire is going to be built up in day on the general budget, I want this country in the near future, and the State Governments to p!ay a dyna- there is a ·very clear indication of it mic role and to energise thE'mselves given by our indust:'ialists today. They in raising resources to the best possi- want this country to drill from its ble extent. Having said that, I would present course of lOCiaIism into a real Finance Bill MARCH 26. 1962 Finance Bill r!42: [Shri Harish Chandra Mathur] capitalist state and they want to build whether this challenge which is bein& India on the American line or pattern. thrown and the Swatantra Party It is not my surmise but what they which has come up only to take for- actually say. Now the Federation of ward this challenge to our economy the Indian Chamber of Commerce and that we have to take care of. It is not Industry are meeting here. and they the feudal order, it is not the jagir- have given a clear indication of what dari about which we have to worry. their intentions are and on what lines Jagirdari has gone for ever. Maharajas; they want the country to proceed and Rajas are gone for ever. They further. I will just read a few senten- cannot be revived. But it is the lines. ces from the address of the President on which our business, on which our of the Federation to show what is in trade, on which our industry want to, their mind. He says: develop and devour everything else· that constitute the real danger. There- "Our largest firm in the pr.ivate fore, I would request hon. Finance· sector is less than a third of the Minister to take note of it and tell size of the smallest of the 100 this House what is going to be the' largest firms in the USA. Our line which he is going to give to this large firms are not, in fact, opera- country in the face of the speech ting on a large scale. If, there- made in the annual 'meeting of the· fore, our efforts are to yield the Federation. It is not only this. best result .... ". Let these words be noted. Again, they make themselves per- fectly clear. When we talk about. ". . . .economic policy must basic enterprises and others, what are keep clean of other motives." our friends thinking? The emphasis· Here is a warning to our Government, is on this. This is what they want t'he here is a warning to the ideals which Government to take note of. we have cherished. I will repeat that sentence. ''What I do wish to emphasise "If, therefore, our efforts are to is that it is in its nature for gov- yield the best results economic ernmental activity to overstep the policy must keep clean of other appropriate mark and overtake· ·motives. The goals of policy be- the field in which it cannot profi-· come blurred when at the stage tably function. or vitiate the· of implementation the policy gets policy ina manner that would biased or ceases to be straightfor- put restrictions on the operations ward, and refuses to respect;" of the individuals and· interfere the possible flow of production." Respect what? "respect the natural impulses of ,This is the warning given to this> the individuals and the fUnda- Government: "Please do not over- mental laws of economics." step )'our limit; nothing of this pub- what are these fundamental lines of lic lector is wanted; you have step- economy and what' are the industrial ped in in this field only at Our cost;. policies of these individuals who are where the profit motive doea not talking about the future structure· of function, nothing can function and. the whole economy? Their future im- succeed." I think I cannot PUt it in pulses are that our large firms should more appropriate and stronger lan- grow larger·and larger to the siZe of gUage than what they' have done. the American firms and should be able You should take the field only in to compete with them in their large- which it cannot profitably function. ness and in their capital. That is the What is the field in which it C8Jin0t real danger to this country. It is pro1Itably function? I would Uke . really a' :matter for us to consider . them to ddile.· I woulcl 'lIteihe 11843 Finance Bm CHAlTRA Ii. 1884 (SAKA) Finance Bm 1844 hon. Finance Minister to ask these trial estate and have done everything friends to make it clear where they they could, and he is not assisted, he want the Government to step in and gets completely frustrated and falls -what is the field which they want to into such a mOOd that it becomes im- 'be reserved for them. possible fOr anYlbody to take interest ;i>n such developmental activities. While I have my violent reactions Those people who have been able to -to what they have said and to which secure a loan from the Government 1 have given my own view point and under the rules when they laid their while I partially agree with something foundations, get a second instalment that has been said in this. there are when they go up to the roof level. ~ertain things which have been said They have gone up to the roof level. in this address and which have been Not a single pie has been advanced ,emphasised with which I agree one inspite of my breakin, my head with hunderd per cent. I would, there- the Minister at Industries at this end 'fore, not like to be uncharitable to and the Minister in the State in the them, but would like certainly to other end. They are completely frus- -draw the pointed attention of the Fi- trated. How can you have develop- nance Minister to these points where mental activity? How can these -small I agree with them so much. Where assisted industrial estates be formed? I agree with them is about the ad- You talk of initiative of small entre- ministrative deficiencies about the preneurs, going into the rural areas, implementation of the policy. We taking all their credit and put every- have made out a policy with which thing in the effort. Yet, we are not we agree_ But. the one hundred de- able to procure a loan for them. What lays which retard our production. these people wanted was just tin ,the one hundred delays which make sheets for covering their sheds _ I our plans much more costly than they talked to the Minister at the Srina- ought to be, the administrative de- gar !Small-scale Industries confe- ficiencies, to which an accusing finger rence. I invited his attention. Fortu- has been raised and rightly raised, nately, the Minister of Steel, Mines are there. I think we must have pos- and Fuel was also there. I invited the sibly in the Ministry of Home attention of the Minister of Steel, Affairs a whole-time Minister of Mines and Fuel, personally. He said, -State who will devote his exclusive there should be no difficulty, it could attention with the Finance Minister be done in a week's time, a Deputy and see that something is done about Secretary could do it, it is not that the administrative inefticienciea you have to address a letter to me. which are not here only in the Cen- you can write to the Steel Controller. tral Government but which are also I directed the Director of Industries a curse in the State Governments. there to write to the Steel Control- Nothing really moves. It is really ler. He wrote. More than six months unfortunate. I can give ezmnple have passed. r pursued the matter, by after example where one goes and writing a personal letter to the Mi- breaks his head against a dead wall. nister in charge here. One letter ack- We are talking sO much about pri- nowledged, second letter acknow- vate initiative. I collected a number ledged, third letter acknowledged_ I 'of young entrepreneurs who wanted wrote to the Deputy Secretary. Dur- to put up an assisted industrial estate. ing all these six months. we could They contributed all in their posses- not get tin sheets to cover the 20 sion, much more than what they sheds. Do you think that this Gov- have to, for an assisted industrial ernment can be permitted to func- estate, about which my hon_ friend tion? Do you think that the people the Minister for Industries has been can have respect for this Govem- talking here and he has also been ment, if these administrative defici- talking about my initiative. When a encies continue to 'b" there all the small entreprene~ sponsors an indus- time? It is time that instead of get- 18·15 Finance Bil! MARCH 26, 1962 Finance Bm [Shrl Harish Chandra Mathur] ting impervious and getting indig- number of wagons. It would be much nant that the.e deficiencies are point- better if we stop one of the big pro- ed out that something is done to re- jects where cement is required ins- lieve the people of these administra- tead of starving everyone and keep.. tive inefficiencies. ing all the works half-finished. in- complete. That would be better than I would like to say something about asking thousands of people who . are transport. I think we are discussing sinking their wells not to complete the Railway Budget soon after. them. I think it is not a correct There-lore, I would like to reserve thing to ask people to suspend their some of my observations regarding work. transport. Here, I have got the Rail- way Mini.ter's Budget speech before me. I shall deal with the matter at Very often we are told here that that time. But, it does not with the these are the strains and stresses of Railway Ministry alone. I would a developing economy. I refuse to most humbly appeal to the hon. Mi- accept that proposition. These are nister for Finance that when he not the strains and stresses of a deve- draws up his Budget proposals and loping economy. These things are when we discuss these matters next inherent in our ineffi:iency. It is just month or a month after, he will' a cover to say that these are the kindly convene a meeting of all the strains and stresses of a growing anel Ministries concerned. The Ministry developing economy. The administra- of Steel, Mines and Oil is concerned, tion cannot 'be permitted to have the Ministry of Industries is concern- this cover to cover up their ineffici- ed. The Ministry of Railways and encies, inadequacies, and deficiencies. the Finance Ministry are concerned. I cited two examples of stresses and Let the country know. The Govern- strains. Why could we 'not take care ment owes an explanation to the of these small matters. We could cer- country. It is not the Railway Minis- tainly have attended to them. try alone that owes an explanation. The entire Government owes an ex- planation. They OWe an explanation Therefore, let us not get imper- to this House and to the entire coun- vious, let us not become indifferent try as to what is going to be done to all these criticisms and accusations, to remove these transport bottlenecks but make a critical examination port bottlenecks and to see that in- ourselves and see that all that is de- dustry does not go to dogs. When we sired is done. That way We can speak here, we speak in the interest give real satisfaction to the people of the nation. We do not want in- that the administration is not taking dustry-large or small-to su1fer. We the criticism lightheartedly but is do not want large industry to su1fer trying to do everything that lies with at all, becaUSe the' loss of the !arle it to improve this state of alIairs·. industry is the loss of the country as a whole. Therefore. I hope the hon. Finance Minister will take particular Sbri -1... Achaw SiDgh (Inner Mani- note of this matter. pur): First, I would like to submit: that the Finance Bill for the year 1962 presented to us is only a statua- Th.. other day the Minister of In- quo Bill in so far as it contains no dustry told us that we could not changes in the tax structure. Gene- move cement. He said we could not rally tax proposals impinge on the manufacture cement because DO coal returns of investments in general and could be moved; we could not move on investments in industries which cement for want of the requisite the tax measures favour or penalise Finance Bi!! CHAITRA 5, 1884 (SAKA) Finance Bi~Z in particular. In the absence of !tress in our economy. The actual fuller data on the budget, it- is diffi- Plan outlay in the first two years of cult to determine the direction of the Third Plan will thus be only ot econO!lllic activity in general iJl the the order of one-third of the five ~oming year. year investment target of Rs. 7,500.- crores. On prJ!.>ent showing, the outlook for 1962-63 does not seem to be too I am very milch disappointed at agreeable, because the revenue gap the actual rate of progress af deve- of Rs. 63 crores is the largest since lopment in my own area. I belong to independence; more usually, we have the Union Territory of Manipur. It is had revenue surpluses. Now the pub- a very backward State. From the lic and the stock markets seem eto -be point of view of communications and concerned over the additional tax transport, We suffer a lot. The Mani- burden. this may cause. If we review pur administration has failed to uti- the tax pattern of the past decade, lise the funds provided during the it would be quite clear that as a successive Five Year Plans; several practical matter there is little hope lakhs of rupees have been surrender- of sij[ni1i.cant additions to the tax ed to the Central Government be- collections throultb taxation of per- cause they could not utili:se the funds sonal incomes. The bulk of these provided for development. This year collections would have to come from there has been a very heavy short- the highly regressiVe levies on com- fall on account of power, water sup- modities. This will hit the poor man ply, roads and hospital buildings un- and will not bring about the socialis- der the administration and roads un- tic pattern of society. The men of der the Manipur Territorials Councils. business have not .heen alarmed in spite of the warninj[ of the Finance There have been some difficulties._ Minister the other day that we These have been shortage of mate- have to enlarge the budgetary resour- rials, delay in the sanction of - ces in order to ensure stability in the schemes, shortage of technical per- economy. They know that in the sonnel, paucity of suitable contrac- last budget the Finance Minister had tors and so on. But these have been, been very sympathetic and generous very long-standing problems; for the to them and so they now hope that last ten years, these have been there. the new taxation measures would not So it was time for the administration- di:ocourage business activity. J would and for the Union Government to- request the Finance Minister to see deviSe some measures so that there that there is some change in the taxa- might not be any shortfall in the tion pattern so that the burden on the physical as well as financial targets of common man may be a little lighten- the plans. In a very backward area- ed. like Manipur, shortages of transport and communications BS,well as power- are the main difficulties in the way There is another disquietin!t fea- of any real development work. It is- ture of the next year's estimates be- rather a criminal mistakp. on the part cause they include a provIsion of of the administration to surrender- Rs. 107 crores for implementing the huge amaunts of money provided for- Plan. The total Plan outlay for the development of transport and com- second year rtf the Third Plan, both munications. Mainly, there are only Central and State Governments. will two schemes for road development. be o~ the order of Rs. 1,UR crares, One is the Imphal-Tamenglong road that IS, only 111'1 per cent more than which is only '70 miles long. Work the current year'. budgeted outlay. was begun during the First This is too small a provision for those Five Year Plan period. It is now ten who look forward ~ accelerated pro- years; still the road could not be· Finance Bill MARCH 26, 1962 Finance Bm 1850 [Shri L. Achaw Singh] completed. Another project is the tory, because that will be the founda- New Oachar Road. This was started tion or basis for any industrial deve- during the Second Five Year Plan, lopment in that area. but the progress is too slow. At this rate of progress, it will not be possi- Another thil.lg which I would like ble to complete the 135 miles of road to bring to the notice of the Finance within even the next Five Year Plan Minister of the Union Government is period. So, some steps should be the fact that Manipur is very back- taken to accelerate the progress of ward economically. The standard of . road construction in this territory. living of the people there is very low. There is no industry worth the name; With regard to bridge construction there is no medium industry, and no also, 17 minor and major bridl(es had small-scale industry with a capital of to be completed during the Second even Rs. 20,000. So, it is very much Plan. Only five could be completed, under-developed, and without power and the sum Drovided for twelve pro- and without transport and communica- . jects was surrendered during the Se- tions it is not possible to develop in- .. cond Plan. This is a very sorry state dustry or agriculture. In the Union al thine:s. . Territory of Manipur these two de- partments of industry and agricul- ture are under second class officials. The Imphal Water supply Scheme That means these two departments which was to cost Rs. 29 lakhs was have not been looked after properly. undertaken during the First Plan and There has been a demand that they water was to be provided from that should be under first class officials. scheme in 1960, but then that scheme They are now run by second class was abandoned, and a new scheme officials, by men who have not the is being taken up. The people are knowledge of things." If we want to now afraid that they might not be develop this backward area, we should able to get pure drinking water in have programmes to look after these Imphal town even during the Third two departments. So, I request that Plan. these two departments should be up- graded and put under first class offi- Another matter which .hould have cials. ·been given priority is the power supply scheme. There was only one Lastly, it is a matter for satisfac- small hydro-electric power supply tion that the old development depart- .scheme started by the Britishers ments in the Union Territory would some 15 years back. That plant is still be transferred to the elected body, there. There was a scheme for its the Territorial Council. The Union development but only because of the Government has appointed an official non-availability of penstoke pipe the committee to work out the details. work of developing that power Till now we had been suffering be- scheme could not be completed and cause the people's rppresentatives had the people there pay 37 np. per unit not been given any pawer or status to of electricity for industrial as well look after the devolpment works. as domestic consumption, which is With the transfer of the old develop- ·too high a rate. The per capita con- ment departments to the Territorial sumption of electricity there is very Council We hoPe there will be enough low compared to other parts of India. progress in ali schemes. Our only . There is great potential for hydro- hope is that this representative body, e1ectri= generation of power in a the Territorial Conci!, will be given hilly area like Manipur. The Govern- the status of an Assembly, and that ment of India should give priority the proposed Executive Committee . for developing power in that terri- which is going to be elected by the Finance Bm CHAITRA 5, 1884 (SAKA) Finance Biel majority party or by the Territorial My hon. friend Shri Mathur refer- Council would fUnction just like a red to his sad experience as regards Council of Ministers in any other some industry with which he is con- State, that they would be fully charg- nected, and he referred to the ineffi- ed with the responsibility of imple- ciency which is prevailing in different menting the various schemes of the departments of Government. We are Five Year PIan. trying to remove inefficiency as fast as possible, and I hope progress con- Shri Morarji Desai: There are no tinues to be made. About the parti- changes in the Finance Bill that is be_ cular instance which was referred to fore the House. The debate that has by him I cannot say anything. I am taken place has, as usual, covered quite sure that what he has said will many subjects outside the Finance be seen .by the Minister concerned and Bill, as it is the privilege of the Mem- necessary steps will be taken, but I bers to speak on the Finance Bill on did not quite follow when he said almost any subject that they like, but that Government must not be allowed I hope it wilJ be recognised that it is to continue like this. I do not know impossible for me within an hour and whether it was a merely emphatic a half to get information about the statement, or whether it meant some- criticism relating to all the other thing else. I do not know what is Ministries. I hope, therefore, they meant, but if it means that we must will execuse my inability to tell them do ali that we can to bring in effi- anything on what they have said. ciency as fast as possible, I agree with him entirely. Nobody can differ on the necessity Of bringing in efficiencY What was said about the difliculties in everything that we do. It will be of the coir industry has much truth in helpful if some patience is exercised it. but that does not mean that Gov- in this matter and useful suggestions ernment is not conscious of these diffi- are made regarding the steps to be culties. or that Government has not taken to remove the delays or the in- been trying to take the necessary efficiencies that are noticed in the steps to see that the difficultIes are transactions of the public with the removed and the coir industry conti- Government. nues to employ as many people as is possible. The hon. Member who spoke 14 hours. about it complained about mechanisa- tion in the industry, and then he also Then he also referred to a speech complained about the industry not of the President of the Federation of having a proper market abroad. If Indian Chambers of Commerce and In- the indusry is to survive and make dustry. I do not see how he thought good and is to thrive, I think, it is that the President of that body lays very necessary to see that there is down the policies of this Government mechanisation immediatelv in that in- or of this country. The policies of dustry. It is a difficult choice and this country are laid down by this perhaps an unpleasant choice that may Government. They are very clear and have to be made. We are careful in the Prime Minister spoke about it also this country to see that mechanisation very clearly. I do not think we should does not take place at the cost of be very impatient about suggestions workers as far as possible. but if in- made by other people. Even if they dustries go out of existence for want are extreme what does it matter? We of mechanisation. then- the whole are not going to be deflected from labour will suffer, and therefore it is our course because somebody says one a matter of judging the necessity, of thing on one side and somebody else doing the one or the other, or doing says something on another side. We both together. That is how Govern- may profit by the criticism of people ment applies its mind to It and takes and if it suits us and it suits our poli- the steps that are necessary. cies and programmes, we should make 2017(Ai) LS--S. Finance Bill MARCH 26, 1962 Telegraph Wi,.es (Un- lawful Possession) Amendment Bill [Shri Morarji Desai] the necessary changes, wherever it is Shri Morarji Desai: Sir, I beg to necessary to do so. But that should move: be consistent VIi th the line that we "That the Bill be passed." have chalked out for our programme. The socialist programme that we have Mr. C;1llirman: The question is: before us is not going to be deflected by any criticism one way or the other. "That the Bill be passed." Therefore any violent criticism (In The motion was adopted. anything is not very helpful. Criti- cism must be constructive and not violent. That is alI that have to 14.05 hrs. plead with my hon. friend. TELEGRAPH WIRES (UNLAWFUL I do not think, Sir, that I need take POSSESSION) AMENDMENT the time of the House about these BILL matters at all beacuse it is not pos- sible for me to give any detailed in- The Minister of TraDSJlOrt and Com- formation about the subjects touched munications (Dr. P. Subbarayan) Sir. by hon. Members is their speeches on I beg to move: the Finance Bill. They are of course "That the Bill further to amend entitled to say whatever they have to the Telegraph Wires (Unlawful say but I hope they will also recognise Possession) Act, 1950. be taken my inability to satisfy them within an into consideration." hour and a half by getting all the in- formation they want on these subjects. I think many words are not needed from me because this is a measure I hope that the Finance Bill will be which is badly needed. Copper wire adopted by the House. thefts are becoming more and more Mr. Chairman: The question is: common. We have' been trying our best to prevent this. But the punish- "That the Bill to continue for ment provided in the old Bill has not the financial year 1962-63 the ex- been found to ·be commensurate with isting rates Of income-tax and the offence and magistrates even for super-tax and to provide for the the second offence have not given continuance Of certain commit- deterrent punishment. The punish- ments under the General Agree- ment for the first offence is left en- ment on Tariffs and Trade and the tirely to the discretion of the magis- discontinuance Of the duty on salt trate, but for the second offence penal- for the said year be taken into ties are being increased both by way consideration." of imprJsonment and fine. I hope that The motion was adopted. the House will agree to the Bill being passed. Mr. Chairman: We shall now take up the consideration of the clauses. Mr. Chairman: The question is: There are no amendments. I shall, "That the Bill further to amend therefore, put all the clauses together. the Telegraph Wires (Unlawful The question is: Possession) Act. 1950. be taken into consideration." "That clauses 1 to 4, the Enact- ing Formula and the Long Title The mo~ion was adopted. stand part of the Bill." Mr. Chairman: Let us now take up The motion was adopted. the consideration Of clauses. There Clauses 1 to 4, the Enacting Fonnula are no amendments to clauses 2 and 3. and the Long Title were added to the I shall put them together. The ques- Bill. tion is: 18ss Telegraph Wires (Un- CHAlTRA 5, 1884 (SAKA) lawful Possession) Amendment Bill ''That clauses 2 and 3 stand part 14.091 ..... of the Bill." RAILWAY BUDGET-GENERAL The motion was adopted. DISCUSSION Clauses 2 and 3 were added to the Bil!. Shri Braj Raj Singh (Firozabad): Clause l(Short Title) May I enquire how much time is fixed Amendment made: for this item? Page 1, line 4,- Mr. Chairman: Five hours, but it all for "1961" substitute "1962" (2). depends (Dr. P. Subbarayan) Shri Narasimhan (iKrishnagiri): Mr. Chairman: I shal! now put Sir, a couple Of days back the Prime clause 1 to the House. Minister, while addressing the Federa- The question is: tion of Indian Chambers of Commerce and: Industry, referred to the inability "That clause 1. as amended, of the transport system, the power and stand part of the Bill." the coal production to keep pace with the rising tempo of the industrial ex- The motion was adopted. pansion Of the country. It was al- Clause 1. as amended. was added to most like a criticism and a comment. the Bill. We have only recently 1I0ne through the General Elections and the country Enacting Formula is going to have a period of five years Amendment made, under the tutelage of the new Parlia- ment. Therefore, it was possible for Page 1, line 1,- him to take a detached view of things for "Twelfth Year" substitute and make a review of the work of the ''Thirteenth Year" (1). 5 years. In that context, he did see that while on the one hand, the plans (Dr. P. Subbarayan) for our development are there, unless Mr. Chairman: The question is: there is support given by power, elec- tricity, coal and other things, unless "That the Enacting Formula, as they are also coordinated, one to I.'up- amended, stand part of the Bill." port the other, al! our aims Would not The motion was adopted. be fulfil!ed. It is in this context that we have to view our present Railway The Enacting Formula, as amended, Budget also. was added to the Bi!!. The long Title was added to the Bill. The economic survey accompanyina the General Budget also mentions that Dr. P. Subbamyan: Sir, I beg to the industrial development wil! not bft move: to our expectations unless the trans- ''That the Bill, as amended, be port system also rose to the occasion. passed." Therefore, the Railway Minister, as was expected, in his speech hoped I am very grateful to the House for that he would get further al!otmests having given such an easy passage to for the development of our railwyas. this Bil!. It has also to be seen whether it Mr. Chairman: The qaestion is: would be better or not to go in for "That the Bil!, as amended. be large-scale electrification of railway passed." traction. Where we have a single line areas run by steam, they can easily The motion was adopted. be converted into single track electric traction; and where we have single Railway MARCH 26, 1962 Budget-Genera! Discussion [Shri Narasimhan] track electric traction, We can have train load of coal from one end of the double track. Unle3s such things are country to the other is not a happy resorted to, there may not be an ad- figure in point of profit and loss. So, justment between the industrialisa- it IS high time that the Railway Ad- tion plan and the support that is ex- ministration took into consideration pected from the transport system. the desirability of constructing new The main transport system is the rail_ lines more on the basis of electriC way; and, therefore, they have to do traction than on the outmoded steam something in this respect. traction. As far as laymen could see, we do They may even go to the extent of find that steam traction is going out appointing a high-power committee of fashion and uneconomic. There- of experts. Any delay will only fore. whenever we go in for the cons- mean periods of further regrets and truction of new lines, why not we go comments by lbodies of Parliament in for electric traction? Weare sup- like the Estimates Committee who posed to have perspective planning. are ,bound to go into the question and Every other day. the Prime Minister finally come to the same conclusion refers to perspective planning. If it that. it is no use hereafter pursuing is so. what is the fun of not visualising the discarded mode of steam traction. that in 5, 10 or 15 years we will have I do hope that this matter will be to take to electric traction? In a carefully examined by the Railway country's economic arangements. un- Administration and that competent less we have in view a 30 years' ob- experts will be asked to go into the jective. the developments that would question to see how far it is practi- take olace some 25 or 30 years hence. cable and desirable to resort to steam how can we justify the exoenditure traction. taht we incur now? Even in an indi- vidual's economy or a familY's eco- The Budget speech also envisages nomy. we have to visualise a period increase in rates. Of course, no one of one generation, 20, 25 or 30 years. would be receiving this news with So. In 'a country's economic planning, satisfaction. It would, in its turn, perspective planning is the inevitable produce consumer resistance. If the thing. When it is well-known that fares are increased the number of steam traction is becoming impracti- passengers will get reduced. The cable. why should we not go in for returns will diminish and people large-scale electrir traction' will resort to alternative modes of transport like the bus. That ha~ I am given to understand that if also to be considered befor" electric traction is undertaken even resorting to any increase in rates, now. it may be cheaper than other whether passenger fares or freight means of traction. The amount of rates. (InteTTILption). Now, there is money spent on laying a tract of 100 inherent capacity in the country for miles of steam traction may be un- increased traffic. Any institution or t!conomic compared to the same dis- authority that offers transport has tance for electric traction. to offer it in such a way that the customer finds it economic. Then there are other advantages of electric traction which are immense. I am very happy that 140 miles. of There would not be great strain on railway line are under )cOnstructlOn the transport of coal from one end of in my district. I have been agitating the country to the other. In fact, the for it for about a decade; and while railways have to move coal for their my continuance in the Lok Sabha is own engines and also for industrial only for a few days, I retire with a purposes. It is quite ludicrous. The sense of fulfilment and a great satis- game IS not worth the candle. The faction. My colleague, the Deputy percentage of coal spent to move a Minister of Railways, who hails from CHAlTRA 5, 1884 (SAKA) Budget--General 1859 1860 Discussion the same district says that here is a in the extreme south, with Bangalore. gift from the present Parliament to Bangaiore will be liriked up with my district-14 miles of railway line. RIDgoll, and other areas in the The Budget figures show that for th~ Khandwa-Hingoli line. Therefore, Bangalore-Salem matre guage line the interlinking of various parts or of the Southern Railway, Rs. 5 1akhs groups of the States will certainly is the expenditure for 1961-62, Rs. 100 help in greater inter-communication lakhs for 62-63 and 1Ihe balance to aDd emotional and national intergra- complete will be Rs. 695 lakhs and tion, and also develop the industries it is expected to be completed by in the country. 1965. I Q·ust wonder I whether the From the defence point of view year 1965 could not be advanced by also, this new line will help the one year or 18 months. country. Now, from the east coast to In the case of Manamadurai-Virdu- North India, we have only one line dunagar line, the schedule is, ex- by which the Grand Trunk Express penditure spent up to 1961-62 is goes. We have one or two big Rs. 5 lakhs; provision for 1962-63 is bridges and certain bottlenecks. If Rs. 10 lakh~ and the balance to be something goes wrong there, the com- completed is Rs. 235 lakhs. The date munication between Delhi and Madras of completion is expected somewhere gets upset So, this new line is ano- in 1963-64. I do hope that the same ther alternative. Hence, as a strate- time-schedule will also be kept up gic line, it has its OWn role to play. for this line. Therefore, I am very pleased that what was originally intended to At the beginning, I was saying that render some kind of justice to one the present Parliament was so pleas- area will now turn out to be a great ed. after ten years of non-stop ap- asset to the country as a whole. This peal, to give this railway line to my will ·be a great asset to the country, district. But it would not be fair apart from its being an asset to the to say that it was given to my dis- railways and to the States concerned. trict; it was given not only to that district but to the State: it was not In regard to this railway line, while only to the State but to the railways money is being provided for it in the themselves. I am sure that this rail- budget, I want to make one or two way line is going to link Bangalore observations about the line itself. As with Salem through a different route. is made to appear to us at present, It is going to help the country's eco- some of the stations that are going nomic progress considerably. It has to be constructed on this proposed multi-purpose effects. We are all railway line are a bit away from the talking of national unity and national townships. That aspect should be integration. One chief ,factor in enquired into. After all, there is bringing about the national integra- keen competition between road trans- tion and emotional integration and port and railway transport. Many of unity is the means of communica- the tonwships that are covered by the tion. Here. we have an alternative new line are also partly served by means of communication. Here, we the national highway. The highway have an ;alternative means of commu- goes through the important town- nication from Punjab to the South ships. Only in order to avoid ac- through the metre gaage. This will cidents, some by-pass roads are con- help the movement of goods from the structed in important townships. north to the south to a very great ex- Otherwise, the passengers will find tent without transhipment and other it easy to go from one place to ano- inconveniences. Big areas are also ther by road transport, and they going to ,be linked up fairly closely: would continue to prefer road trans- Goa and BangaIore, Hyderabaci and port if the stations now proposed 011 Bangalore, Cudalope and other areas this line are fixed too far from the 1861 Rai1wall MARCH 26, 1962 Budl1e~eneTal 1862 Discussion [Shri Narasimhan] towns. Now, the distance is a mile regions, the residents of which have in one case and about six to seven not yet seen even the railways, for furlongs in another case. These areas example, in Bastar. Even the States are not covered by municipalities. The Reorganisation Q>mmission had re- areas which are covered by the rail- ferred to the means of communica- way line are not big municipalities. tion in the vast State which they There are no big municipalities proposed at that time and they had roundabout the line. There are only made a reference to the new, pro- two municipalities in my district. posed line between Gwalior and One of them is covered by the rail- Ujjain. It has been cut down, and way and the other is not anywhere . the proposal, as sanctioned and an- near the railway. So, there is no nounced already in the second Five use thinking in terms of Ibig towns Year Plan is to have a new railway and imagining that a distance of some link between Guna and Bastar. But furlongs or a mile is nothing I am constI'Bimld to say that though material. three years have elapsed, nothing has been done in that direction. We u- Therefore, I do hoPe that while peeted some -beginning, at least some the final location survey is being earthwork, in the second Five Year taken, this aspect of the matter, Plan period, but nothing has been namely, keeping the railway station done. One year of the third Five as near as practicable, possible or de- Year Plan period has also passed, and sirable, will be taken into considera- I see that no start has yet been made. tion, and not some other considera- We have bottlenecks everywhere, and tion such as availability of land and we are badly in need of goOd trans- so on being the governing factor in POrt for the goods, but we cannot for fixing ihese stations. Otherwise, there that reason introduce additional will be some dissatisfaction and dis- trains. Therefore, it is but neces- appointment. I hope the local autho- sary that new lines should be con- rities and associations and public- structed as early as possible I hope men will be consulted in this matter that now, before the rains set in, a of fixing the stations on this new beginning will be made and some railway line. earthwork must be done. If it is not Shri Radhelal Vyas (Ujjain): Mr. done, I am afraid one more year will have to elapse before we make a Chairman, I welcome the railway beginning. So, this aspect must be budget and congratulate the Govern- attended and a beginning shOUld ment on the various improvements to be made this very year itself. that have been made on the Indian railways. I must also observe that we have Shri &raj Raj Singh: Why this got in our State some narrow gauge chorus? The elections are over. lines. The hon. Deputy Minister re- cently paid a visit to Ujjain and he Shri Radhelal Vyas: I have been himself saw one of the narrow gauge doing like that. It is a fact. But it trains there. These lines have been does not mean that there is no room causing great losses to the railways. for improvement. There are certain It is time that the Railway Board and things which are to be attended to. the railway aB.ministration thought of First of all, 1 would refer to the con- replacing them by metre gauge or struction of the new lines so far as broad gauge lines. The narrow gauge my State-the 9>iggest one-of line in the old Madhya Bharat region Madhya Pradesh is concerned. My are narrower than the standerd nar- State is lacking in communications. row gauge lines. The narrow gauge 'There are vast areas which have not lines from Gwalior to Bhind, from yet been opened UP. and there are -Shivpur to ShivpUri and from Ujaain Railway CHAITRA 5, 1884 (SAKA) Budget-Ge1U!rat 1864 Discussion to Agra are narrower than the stand- gret to say that nothing has been .ani narrow gauge lines. r wish some- done to improve the conditions in thing is done in tbis direction and the passenger 1J:ains, especially on they may ,be replaced by either broad branch lines. I would like to invite .gauge or metre gauge sections. It the attention of the Deputy Minister would be more profitable if a broad to one railway line in my State, i.e. gauge line replaces the line from Indore-Bilaspur line. You will be Gwalior to Bhind and it may be fur- surprised to note that it is the rule ther extended to Etawah. for the train to run late and only on exceptional occasions---2 or 3 days in lUI lars. a month-it runs in time. I have been complaining time and again not ISHRIMATI RENv CHAKRAVARTTY in the only in this august House, but also in Chair] the informal Consultative Committee of Members of Parliament and also There is a great bottleneck in the in the Zonal Users' Consultative Com- railway at present. If it is replaced mittee for the last two years against by a broad gauge line, it will result this, but I find no improvement at all in economy and quicker movement in that railway line. I fail to un- of goods. This may be kindly ex- derstand why the railway administra- amined. tion should not be able to do some- The narrow gauge line between thing to improve cond.i1lions there. Gwalior and Shivpur may ,be replac- There have been meetings at high ed by a broad gauge line. It m,ay be levels between General Managers and further extended to Kotab. If this is other officials, but nothing tangiblE' done, this will run through new areas could be done so far. and it will remove mUch of the load on the main western and central I wish that the Railway adminis- rail way line. tration should be able to do some- thing to improve conditions there and Similarly the narrow gauge line not put to great hardship the pas.. between Ujjain and Agar may be sengers who come from Bhopal side replaced by a metre gauge or broad and who want to go to Nagda side. gauge line. It may be extended They miss the connection to Ujjain. from Jhalawar Road to Shyamgarh. Either they must improve the run- If this is done, this will also ,be pro- ning of this train, or this should be fitable. These are certain proposals split up into two parts, one between which may be examined. Bilaspur and Bhopal and the other Bhopal and Ujjain. Mostly passengers There had been a proposal to con- coming from Bilaspur to Ujjain get struct a new line from Indore to down at Bhopal and very few go Dhar. This is a scheduled area. A .beyond Bhopal to Ujjain. It is the survey was also made. We must do pasengers who go from Bhopal to something to provide SOme amenities Ujjain who have to suffer, especiallY and facilties to the people residing in if one wants to go beYOnd Ujjain, to this scheduled area. It is a very fertile the Nagda side. This shOuld be ex- area and very productive also. It amined and something must be done should be examined from this point to improve this thing in the new of, view, so that the scheduled tribes time-table that will come into force. may get a gOOd ret'Urn for their pro- duce. . There are other passenger trains also which often run late, like the Baroda-Mathura Passe~. Very The next point is with regard to often, thay miss connection to Ujjain. the la~e rIlIlIIine of trains. There has I have repeatedly drawn the ateention !;Ieen some improvement in the mail railway authorjties, especially the trains and exwess trains, but I re- divisional officers at Kotah, to this. RaihoClIf MARCH 26, 1962 Budget-GmerCll 1166 DiscuB3ion [Shri Radhelal Vyas] They promised to do something, but pedited, so that trains may take up stilI I think much has to be done in speed. The girdai-s of the bridge at that direction. I find the same com- Chipra are being replaced. I do nat plaint with regard to so many pas- know w~ a new bridge should not senger trains in other sections also. be built there. All the girders arc The Railway Board should pay more to be removed and only the old pil- attention to the passenger trains, be- lars are to remain, After some time, cause the public at large who travel again the Railway Board will have to for short distance also must feel that think of changing the pi\1ars also. the railway has made improvements There was a proposal in the Railway and they are also getting the benefits Board and one of the engineers of of the various changes that take placE' the Western Railways proposed that in the railway administration. the pillars should be built anew, as it was no use putting up new girders With regard to Ujjain, I suggE'st on the old pi\1ars. that some improvements and some additions have to be made there. I The Deputy Minister of Rallways am glad that the Deputy Minister, (Shri S. V. Ramaswamy): The pillar~ who himself recently visited Ujjain, are quite good. saw the conditions there. There II need for expending the third class Shri Radhelal Vyas: After some waiting room there. Ujjain is a great time their life is over. You should centre of pilgrimage and the third provide new pi\1ars and then spend class waiting room there cannot he lakhs of rupees; not only on the described as a waiting room at all. girders but on the pi\1ars also you There is only a ·booking office and must pay attention. This is an old a passage; there is no accommodation bridge which can be • used by the for passengers to sit and take re,t. metre-gauge trains which are lighter. He has promised to look into it :nore When you are spending so much, in closely. I wish it is expedited and lakhs of rupees, why not you have a an early decision should be taken by new bridge? Otherwise, you will the railway administration with re- have to spend a huge sum agin gard to this point. after some years. I feel that there should be no repetition of spending There have been complaints with a huge sum after a few years. regard to the trains running between Ujjain and Bhopal. They take more 14.41 hrs. than five hours to cover a distance of 114 miles. There is no express or [MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER in the Chair] mail train. Passengers have to spend so much of their time on the journey, Wherever I go, find there is the result being that passengers pre- discontentment ,among the railway fer to go by bus which takes only employees. I do not know the 31 hours. So, the trains on this sec- reason, but I do know there is a feel- tion should be speeded up. I am told ing of discontentment among the that the old rails which are lighter railway employees for the last four are being replaced by heavier rails or five vears. We find that there has and steps are taken to provide inter- been a~ increase in the number of locking. But this is being done for railway accidents, and I feel it may a long time. How much time should have some conl'lection with the dis- it take? 3 or 4 years have passed contentment of the employees. The and we are told that the work is Railway Board should look into the sti\1 progressing. Some of the bridges causes which have led to this dis- have to be newly constructed. This contentment, for it is not a healthy should be looked into and the work sign, and remove thoSie causes. I that is going on there should be ex- cannot say what th,e causes are but Railway CHAlTRA 5, 1884 (SAKA) Budget-General Discussion 1 am sure there are some causes. I be used only as a sleeper coach. Only hope the railway administration will those who pay the surcharge for arrive at some decisions which will sleeping accommodation should be- remove the discontenment among tile permitted to enter that compartment, employees. as we do in the case of first class. In the first class, there is sitting: accommodation in the day time but The two-tier sleeper coach that hao in the night it is turned into a sleeper' been recently introduced in this coach. Similarly, the sleeper coach. train has been widely welcomed, but also shOUld be used for giving sitting there is one defect in it. In the two accommodation in the day time, but tier system a passenger gets an upper it should be used only for sleeping berth on payment of &. 3. But, purposes in the night. Then there- then, no instructions have been will be uniformity beliwen two-tier issued to the railway staff as to how coaches, the only difference being that the htwer berth is to be used with a charge is levied for the two-tier the result that any passenger can coaches get into the coach, travel any dis- tance he likes and get down, some- Coming to railway stations, there times taking with him the luggage of t're complaints that the platiorms are the passenger who sleeps on the very small. As an instance, I may upper berth. say that in the Vikramgarh Alor rail- way station the train stands beYClnd Mr. Deputy-Speaker: You cannot the edges of the platform, because the have sleep and the luggage too. platform is too small, and it is vety difficult for the passengers to get in Shri Radhelal Vyas: Generally, and get out. So, sometime3 accident very few passengers get into that takes place. I would suggest that in coach because the conductor says it all those cases where the platforms is a sleeper coach. The poor pas- are smaller, they should be extended' sengers do not know that the lower so that accidents may be avoided. I berth is meant for sitting accommo- hope that at least the case 1 men- dation to ordinary passengers. So, tioned, namely, Vikramgarh Alor will be looked into at an early date. they move On to other compartments. The result is very few people get Then there have been complaints of into that compartment and they u~e theft of goods, not only those belong- the lower berth for sleeping purpo~ ing to the public at large but those es, even though they may be travell- belonging to the railways themselves. ing less than 300 or 200 miles, what- For example, at Ujjain the coal ever the limit be. I suggest that the coming from the collieries is stolen lower berths may also be provided in transit in large quantities. There with cushions etc. as are provided for have been complaints about it f~r the upper berths, and they may also quite a long time and I am toid there be charged the same surcharae fOl' are regular gangs who remove the sleeping accommodation for those who goods when the train is in transit at want them. a distance of two or three miles from the Ujjain station. Perhaps the gangs Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The hon Mem- are doing it in collusion with the persons running the train. In IIny ber was saying that the person sitt- case, large quantities of coal carried ing in the lower berth takes away the by the trains are removed there. The, luggage of the person sleeping in the result is that the consignees suffer, as upper berth. If both of them sleep also the railways, because they have what happens to the luggage? to pay compensation. This is a very long-standing complaint and though 8mj Badbelal Vyas: My sugges- the railway administration promil.ed tion is that the compartment should to look into it and do something tc> Railwal/ MARCH 26, 1962 Budget-General Discussion [Shrl Radhelal Vyas] .provide against this, they have not and certain enquiries are made. But, yet been successful in doing anything this time, accidents have been there to relieve either the railways or the almost every day and have occurred travelling public. in almost every line. I am rather sur- prised that the Rallway authorities do Then there are continuous thefts of not take any notice of these accidents railway goods like bulbs and other which might not have caused any loss articles in the coaches. It is difficult of life, but which have caused damage ·to know how they take place. 1 would to railway property and have also say that the bulbs etc. shouid be obstructed the line for hours together. :fixed in such a manner that it would The traffic is held up. As I said, be very difficult fOr anyone to re- between Kodarma and Gaya, the move them from the coaches; alter- same thing happened. The same thing natively, they can provide for more happened very recently between watch and ward people. Sometimes Sealdah and Ranaghat. This' is one it so happens the more the increase of the busiest sections. Sealdah is In the watch and ward staff, the more perhaps one of the busiest raiiway the increase in thefts, because they stations in the whole of India. Almost :also participate in the loot. If we every minute, a train leaves or comes estimate the loss by thefts in railwhYs in. In this line, if accicients take for the whole of India, it wlll run place, it means that for a few hours, into crores of rupees, which is a the entire traffic in that area is com- national waste. So, steps should be pletely dislocated. It is t.appening taken to check the thefts of goods almost every day. It may be that belonging both to the railways and some reports are being sent to the the travelling public. Ministry. But, DO steps have been taken. Otherwise we would have seen "These are the few points which I that the number of accicients in this line decrease. It may be said that wanted to make, and I hope they will the accidents are minor. But, the receive proper attention from the Railway Minister. question of a minor accident or a major accident does not arise. An accident may not ceuse loss of life, Shri Prabhat Kar (Hooghly): Mr. but it really wounds people and at Deputy-Speaker, speaking on the the same time, it makes the line railway budget, I am rather sorry to congested. point out that although there have been committees and pnqumes re- garding the accidents, the number of accidents is on the increase. I am The second thing to which J would quite sure that the hon. Deputy like to draw attention is over-crowd- Minister is aware that Within a short ing in suburban trains. I have actual- period of about fifteen days there . ly seen how these trains come to have been more than eight accidents Sealdah and Howrah, during peak in the Grand Chord line between office hours. In the Sealdah section, Godharma and Gaya. It may be that we are told that electrific-"tioll scheme the accidents did not cause much loss 1s on. When it will be completed, we of life but the boggies capsized, caus- do not know. But, in the way people ing complete closure of the line for a come to Sealdah between 8 in the few hours. I do not know why in this morning' and 9'30, it is an accident particular l'ine these accidents are that they do not fall from the u'ain taking place and I do not know during the journey. By chance, by whether there has been any enquiry luck they do not fall. Otherwise, in and why during such a short time, so the way in which they travel, any many accidents have taken place. time, there can be an accident. This 'Whenever major accidents occur, they is ~ontinuing. There have been so are brought to the notice of the public many repre'Jentations to the Railw~ Railway CHAITRA 5, 1884 (SAKA) Budget-General Discussion Ministry and the Railway Board. But, Car shed station near Howrah, where nothing has been done. We have been every train stops before the train told that when electrification is com- enters into the platform, for two or plete, electric trains will be run and three minutes. During these hours, a at that time, all efforts will be made delay of two minutes is very valuable. to see ~i congestion 3nd over- Because 2 or 3 minutes late means, -erowding in the trains during peak they are punished in the office. 1 -1)ffi.ce hours are removed. Before the would request; them to see that in completion of the ~lectrification these suburban trains lateness does scheme, things are going on in such not occur. a. manner that I would request the hon. Minister to look into this. Be- Coming to amenities, as my han. cause, this Sealdah line is the busiest friend Shri Radhelal Vyas has said, line in the whole of the ~ountry. much remains to be done. In stations which have been in existence for 20 Also during office hour~, between or 25 years, sheds have not been Howrah and Bandel which has been provided as yet. It is something electrified, the number of trains re- strange. I can understand, here is a qufre to be increased during the peak new station and it will require some hours. Because, the number of pas- time to erect a shed. But, even in sengers during this period is so large some old stations in the main line, and it is increasing day by day. This sheds have not been provided. In is very necessary. You will pgree, in Bengal, during the rainy season, pas- the big cities which are so congested, sengers who come to the stations have if we are to remove congestion and not got the benefit of the sheds. I if we are to see. that the people go would request the han. Minister to and live in the suburbar. areas, we look into this matter in respect of at should give these suburban train faci- least the old stations. 1 would give lities. This is one of the most im- one instance--Talandoo station. This portant things. Because of the in- is an old station. Even sheds have crease of the number of passengers not been provided for. during the peak hours, even in the electrified section betwe.:n Howrah The same is the case in stations and Bandel, the number of trains re- where there are two platforms. I quires to be increased. think it is forbidden to cross the rail- way line. That would be punishable Again, during office h ours, every under the law. But, an over-bridge train runs late. Late running during is not ·provided. If an over-bridge is th~s period is also on the increase. not provided and there are two plat- YOIl will find in the papers some dis- forms, I do not know by which way turbances because of late running of the passengers can come to the other trains during office hours. Almost platform without crossing the line. -every day, the office goers are mark- According to the Act, it is punishable. ed late in the office and they have to I will give just one instance !in the suffer for that. I do not know why Sealdilh line-Pyradama-where there during such hours, in such short dis- are two platforms. In between, there tances of 5 miles and 20 miles, the is no over-bridge. I think the hon. trains should not run in time. This Minister agrees that it is punishable is causing a great deal ot difficulty. I in the court to cross the line. would request them to see that at least Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Prohibition the suburban trains, during these has come first and the bridge has to unneces~ary hours, do not make any come afterwards. delay. This late-running cannot be explained. I may tell you that Shri Prabhat Kar: Yes. These are there is no railway station in a parti- small things. I do not know why cular place, but all lfains stop all these amenities have not been provid- throUgh the year. It is called the ed for. Railway MARCH 26, 1962 Budget---General Discussion [Shri Prabhat Karl The same thing also about level- it is 14 annas. But the stuff is not crossings. There are old roads where good. there are no level crossings. There was one level-crossing in a certain I do not know whether it was with place. But, that was closed. I do not the object of improving things that know why a level-crossing which was the dirung car management in the in existence has been closed. Delhi Mail was taken over by the Northern Railway from the Eastern Shrimati Parvathi Krishnan (COim- Railway. I do not find any change batore): I do not know if the Minis- either in service or in the stuff. So ter knows either. it is also not known why these changes are made. This matter also· Shri Prabhat Kar: It is creating should be looked into. difficulties. It is near the railway sta- tion. All the goods which are to be Coming to theft and damages, al- booked from the station. come near ready my hon. friend, Shri Radhelal the station and then they have to Vyas, has spoken. There is something travel one mile further south or north strange about this matter. We have to come to the station. I will give got the Railway Protection Force; another instance. It is in regard to we have the GRP. Yet thefts conti- Pandua on the main line between nue, and in a manner whi~h does not Howrah and Burdwan; the level cress- speak well either of the railway ad- ing on the eastern side of the railway ministration Or the Railway Protec- platform has been closed, and that is tion Force. It is true t:lat passengers creating these difficulties. can help in catching the persons who try to commit theft. But often these 15 hrs. things are done when the trains are stationed at the yard. Therefore, it is Since the railway administration done when the trains are under the has taken over charge of catering, the care of the Railway Protection Force quaIJity of foodstuffs.--.their prepara- or the GRP. We find in ~uburban tion and other things-hus complete- trains that often the fans are lemov- ly deteriorated. When we had the ed and bulbs taken away. Most of contract system, the contractors were th~ time we find that the cushions of making profits. There is no reason first-class or second-class seats are why the railways cannot make a pro- either removed or cut and the foam fit even after supplying better food- rubber taken away. These thing, are stuffs than those supplied under the happening every day and yet nothing contract system. We have been told is being done. This should be looked that catering is now done almost at into properly and remedial measures a loss. We see that the stuff supplied taken. I do not want to say that it is deteriorating every day. Whether is done with the connivance. But it it is on this side of the House or on must be so. otherwise, how is it that the other, those who have tasted the in trains in the yard under the pro- food will find this experience. I do tection of the Railway Protection not know about Ministers, whether for Force such thefts occur? them special dishes are prepared. But if they travel as common passengers, I have already mentioned about late they will have the same complaint. running. Particularly in long-distance This requires looking into. In India, journeys, late running causes a lot of where long-distance railway journey difficulties for passengers. Yery re- is performed, it is essential that the cently the Delhi Mail was running 18 food suppli~ should be good and hours late. It was taken on a new should be cheap. So far as price route via Daltangunge-Parkakana Is .concerned, it is cheap. In some loop. During this journey, along with cases it is 12 annas, in some others it, another tr5in, the Doon Express, &UWGII CHAITRA 5, 1884 (SAKA) Budget-General ,,'as attached. You can imagine what they want further development. So would be the difficulties experienced far as new lines are concerned, I find by passengers, especially children, in that new lines are laid in areas where stations with these two important there is already a single line or even trains moving with nothing available. double line. There is demand for a If important trains are to be shifted new line even when there is a double to other lines, proper care should be line or sometimes three lines or four taken to send telegrams to the sta- lines. But instead of doubling the tions ahead so that passengers may line and putting lines where there is lIot be put to inconvenience. This already a line, it is 'better to introduce applies particularly to children pas- a new line in an under-developed sengers. area. Then we can have the satisfac- tion that every part of the country is We have often pointed out that the linked by the railway. not merely management of the narrow gauge that facilities are increased in an area trains from Howrah to Shiakhala and where they all'eady exist. We must Howrah to Amta is bad and it is hlgh improve the under-developed areas; time it was taken over. We have otherwise, we will not satisfy the been told that the Government is not demands emanating from these considering it. But it is the demand quarters. of the passengers. I think it is es- sential that such important and crowd- ed lines now being managed by In this connection, I may be permit- Messrs. Martin'and Company should ted to say that there had been a sur. be taken over. There cannot be any vey of a new line from Vellore Can- reason why these two lines cannot be tonment to Conjeeveram. I take up taken over by the Railway Board this specific case because they wanted for efficient management. to have a new line here not for the purpose af providing facilities to the Shri N. R. Muniswamy (Vellore): passengers, but for better operational At the outset, I congratUlate the Rail- efficiency. Wagons could not move way Ministry and the Minister on the properly to the destination because of achievements they were able to regis- congestion, and so they wanted to have ter in the last ten years. These a diversion line. A scheme was drawn achievements are very remarkable. up, a survey was made, the commer- But one feels that they could have cial potentiality and other things were done better. From that point of view. assessed. I do not know why it has I may make certain observations, how not yet seen the light of day. It is they could have improved on their nowhere even mentioned. I do not performance. know if it has been thrown out or kept in cold storage. The reason bebind the non-implementation ha, Previous . speakers have made out not ·been disclosed So far, and I for one' certain points as regards new lines, fail understand the reason. and also the discontentment prevailinll to in the railways. As rega'rds new lines, one has to give much thought as to The other aspect to which wish the investment that might be involved to draw the attention of the hon. in satisfying every region to have new Minister is this, that not only have lines. I do appreciate the difficulty new lines in under-developed areas to of Government in satisfying every be undertaken, but new lines can also demand from every corner of the ,be created with a view to improving country. But one thing has to be operational efficiencY, the reason that borne in mind. Whatever may be the is mostly advanced by the railways. demand emanating from any part of For instance, there is a branch line the country, we have to see whether running from Walaja Road to Ranipet, the line asked for is in an under- covering a distance of about three developed area or in an area where miles. You, Sir, have gone to South Railwall MARCH 26, 1962 Budget---General Discussion [Shri N. R. Muniswamy] India, and perhaps you have gone to should new lines be opened in back- the area I 'refer to. This branch line ward areas, but existing branch lines,. has been there for the last 60 or 70 where feasible, may be dismantled years and it has been feeding every and brought on the main line itself. train going on the main line from This aspect may be borne in mind. Bangalore to Madras or vice versa. Madras and Bangalore are perhaps I began by referring to the discon- the only two i:mIportant cities situated tent among the railway staff, but there in different States but connected by is a lot of discontent among the pas- such a short distance of 200 miles in sengers also. There is discontent among. India. Ranipet, Mukundarayapuram the staff because their emoluments and Walaja Ro,ad from a triangle. I have not been increased or amenities wanted the Walaja Road-Mukunda- have been provided or accommodation rayapuram line to be dismantled, and is wanting, but the passengers are also Ranipet and Mukundarayapuram to be not very contented. They find So many joined, so that what is now a branch difficulties in the compartment itself. line would come on the main line it- Even in the first class compartment, self. This has been hanging fire for the flush does not work, or there is the last ten or fifteen years. This no -commode, chute, or, if it is there, proposal was first made in 1925 or it is not clean. U you call for the 1928. They wanted to put it through, man to clean it, they say he will be but for some reason or other it was not available at the next station. When done. When Parliament came into the next station comes, the train does existence in 1952, I raised this ques- not stop there. So, there is a lot of tion, and the reply given to me was discontent, but the discontent among that it would oceate inconvenience to the staff has to be eliminated so that the long-distance passengers. It is not the passengers may not suffer because as if the long-distance passengers of their disconte?t. count the minutes. This will take them only three minutes of extra run. The Pay Commission has made some We find the arrival elf trains is delayed recommendations to cover several cate- not by three minutes but by three gories of employees. It has been hours, sometimes by a whole day. In brought to my notice very recently, such ciJrcumstances, to say that the and I speak subject to correction, long-distance passengers would mind that the Pay Commission's recommen- an extra three minutes does not cut ' dations do not cove: the category of much ice. ... guards and under-guards. They are a category by themselves. I do not I was also told that they would have know they have been given a step- to charge extra for these three addi- motherly treatment. The award given tional miles. That may be so, but by the Pay Commission has no effect when we raise rates and fares, we do on them, and so representations have it on a policy basis. When we do it been made by them to the M'ni:rtry for operational efficiency by eliminat- that their demands might be conceded. ing a branch line and bringing it on It has been hanging fire for a long to the main line itself, it is a matter time. I wish the hon. Deputy Minister of policy. Thereby yOU not only save gives some thought to it and sees to it a huge amount on having separate that they are also benefited like the others. stall' for the branch line, but it will be also to your advantage in the long run. So, the reasons assigned by them In the matter of opting for provident are not very convincing, and I insist fund or pension, the employees seem that this question be re-examined to be in a fix, and therefore they want from the angle I have put forward. some extension of time. I can under- So, my suggestion is that not only stand that they cannot be allowed to Railwall CHAlTRA 5, 1884 (SAKA) Budget-Genera! 1880. Discussion chang~' th~ir option frequently, bat the matter of rail traffic. I understand their difficulties must also be appre- that the movement, both passenger ciated. After all, everybody cannot and goods, is heavy and frequent on come to quick decisions. The pressure this line. In view of that, it is better is there that we must decide by a to start electrification initially from. particular date, and what happens is Madras to Orkonam. This is very that in a hurry we decide on some- essential because this is an industrial thing. Later on, better wisdom dawns area and it deserves to be taken up. upon us and we want to change our So far, in the Southern Railway, in, option as that will benefit us better. our State, the electrification has been Then the difficulty arises. But there on the metre gauge and not on the a.e certain genuine cases which have broad gauge. I do not think it is so· to be looked into where there are in the other parts of the country. So, reasonable grounds for asking for a this must be attended to first on the change. A man who has opted for line between Madras and Orkonam. pension dies the next day! His wife As regards the late running of or somebody else then feels so sad and trains, much has been said. I am not, asks why he had opted for it. Such able_ to make out the reason. The ca.es also come to light. So, the authorities change the time-table once authorities have to deal with these in three or six months. They do not cases sympathetically and realise that do it suo motu. They call for infor- after all it is a thing which has to be mation and they ask Members of Par- approached with human kindness and liament to send suggestions. There is decided suitably. There are such cases a Consultative Committee, the Zonal and the difficulty arises for the Board, Committee and then there is the Time- and the Board is not in a position to table Committee. Everything is there. satisfy everybody. But ultimately the timing is arranged in such a way as to suit the transport The other aspect is in regard to or bus-owners, the people who com- electrification. It has been said since pete with the railways. Of course, we' a long time that electrification from are very hapPy that there is some, and Madras to Villipuram would be taken must be, co-ocdination between road' up. Unfortunately, when it was about and rail. Quite apart from that, I am to f':uctify, something happened. It dealing with passenger traffic. It iit had to be shifted to some other area. not on the same footing as goods tra- It is possible that that area might have ffic. The two are d;Jferent. Passen- had better claims, or, the pressure and gers need some comfort while travel- the demand were such that we have ling. In the case of buses, it is only had to switch over our earlier decision a question of getting some small space. to some other thing. I do not wish. to Even one inch will do! Putting one say what that area is, but the:e had leg over the other, the people travel been a case where, what was intended like lame men. If people want to go for electrification had to be deferred by train, it is because they get some for the sake of another area which comfort. But that aspect of the matter' had subsequent priority. That area is a very sorrowful aspect. It looks ha~ been satisfied. But never mind; it as though the time-table is arranged, has happeneli. Yet, the area foo: which to suit the bus-awners. priority was given earlier must at least now be given top priority and it must I am not casting any aspersion on be seen that electrification is done in the officers or others, and saying that that area now. they are being guided by the dictates' of the bus-owners, but it so happens that it suits the bus-owners and not Similarly, from Madras to Orkonam, the railway passengers. I wish to one aspect has to be considered. It is bring your notice one or two instances. an ar:"ea which has double lines and From Ranipet to Madras, a distance of' wh'ch has an enormous frequency in about 70 miles, there are certain trams "1881 RailwllII MARCH 26, 1962 Budge~eneTal 1882 Discussion [Shri N. R. MWliswamy] :which run to time. The passengers fonnance, I feel that it is a good sign. will take about three hours by mail, We get more revenue from the goods .and the express will take two hours traffic and not from passenger traft1c . .and ten minutes. Starting at 12 O'clock, So far as the Southern Railway is the passengers reach Madras at 2.10 concerned, the 'revenue from passenger in the afternoon. Now, what happens traffic is very little. In that respect, is, the passenger train takes five to they are running the trains at a loss. .six hours. Who will resort to the The authorities must make some 'railway journey? Though there may adjustments and improve the position. be three or four trains running, of what earthly use is there? If it runs '10 miles in about five hours? The 1 then come to the aspect connected buses take only two and a haH hours; with amenities. I find that the speech despite the inconvenience, the passen- of the hon. Minister has been short gers go to the buses. Let the autho- and succinct. This is the first time rities examine this point. What happens when the speech runs only to about in the bus stand? People rush iIi to five pages. It used to be very long, .get accommodation. The transport Now, he has given only the substance, owners say, ''No; get away." So, the and the amounts asked for have been passengers have to wait for hours at only for three months, calculated on the bus stand. Even though there are the basis of requirements for one year. many trains, they do not and cannot The speech has been too brief and take the trains, because the trains take succinct, In it, reference has been five to six hours for covering the made to welfare and relief fund. The journey. This thing does not speak railwaymen will get some donation if well of the administration. Though I they do not get the amenities ~rom the congratulate them for the achieve- regular channel. It is a very good ments they have shown, these small idea. The funl grows only from things put them down. I say that donations or from entertainment or these small things also count for esti- from any other performance which is mation and congratulation. The rail- conducted, and all the money goes 'way authorities seem to ignore small towa,:ds this fund. It is all right. But things and satisfy the long distance what 1 want to say is, it should not be passengers. But what about the third that the whole fund is fed only through -class passengers who should have some voluntary donations. I only wish that quick and fast trains? From the State some way must be found so as to see headquarters, to a distance of about that a portion of the revenues of the 100 miles all round, the areas are fre- Railways-one naya paisa or two naya ~uented 'oy tbe people, going up and paise is a rupee-is collected or donat- down. For them, there must be some ed towards this end. Why I suggest quick facility, instead of having only this is because, as it is, the fund grows mails and expresses, and for a distance by the ability or manoeuvrability of ·of hundred miles from the State head- the railway employees who conduct 'quarters, they must run as far as functions such as dramas and other possible some quick trains. 'nle trains performances, apart from the contri- should have certain speed limits, and bution to the Development Fund and not go too fast lest something should the Depreciation Fund. 'nlese Funds bappen-as has happened in a recent also are there. This is in addition to the Instance-and that thing subsequently 4,25 per cen~ that we give to the Gene- being enquired into! I am mentioning ral Revenues. So, I say that there may these things because the railways be a contribution from the employees 'could get good income. and Railway revenues towards this welfare fund. Let it not be a huge Now. the railways have been im- amount. It may be just one naya -proving. From the trend of their per- paisa. But that will go a long way in Railway CHAI'l'HA 5, 1884 (SAKA) Budget-GeneTal 1814 Discussion 1Ieeing that all the necessary things are passengers is that he is not doing any taken care of. Especially at the time harm and on the other hand, he gives of any emergency, this will be helpful, us some entertainment-singing or apart from the other funds that the exhibiting his infirmities and invoking railways have. I think the railways our sympathy. Also, they get some are the major single industrial income from the other passengers. employer in this country under whom Thus, the passengers themselves Me lJakhs and lakhs of servants are work- encouraging ticketless travelling. ing. I know the main concern of the Otherwise, this evil could be cllt down railways is to see that the welfare by the passengers themselves. amenities given to the employees grow more and more, progressively, and are If anybody tries to bring to the to their utter satisfaction. Quite apart notice of the ticket collector this from it, though it may not be quite matter, the other passengers get angry. pertinent, and it may not come within Indians have this mentality that they "the four corners of the rules that are should do some sort of charity, either now framed, it is up to the authorities from their own pocket or from a third to find out some way by which they party's pocket. 'Could replenish this fund with an extra amount. Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Most prefer- ably the latter. ! I think I am taking mucl~ time. I ·shall finish very soon. Shri N. R. Munlswamy: It appears to be so. If anybody brings it to the Shrimati Parvathi KriShnan: Let notice of the ticket collector, every- 'him go on. body puts on a gruff face because he was giving some entertainment. Some- Mr. Deputy-Speaker: So, Shrimati times 'she' comes and sometimes 'he' Parvathi Krishnan also is giving her comes singing. Whenever 'she' comes time to the han. Member! I thought everybody is very happy, ·because she that she was going to speak. She had sings and collects some money. Even sent in her name. But now, she is the ticket collector joins the other prepared to give some time for the passengers, because he does not want .others. them to become angry. These emo- tions are there, one against the other. Shri N. R. Muniswamy: Sir, I am The fault. therefore, lies not only with not taking anybody's time. I must get the administration, but also with the the time through you only. I must passengers. I am saving it because I "finish my speech soon. If I take up 'have seen it myself. When I wanted anybody';; time, they will get angry. to do something, they all objected. Eviedently the debate must be pro- 10nged lest it should collapse. That Sometimes. ticketless passengers 'seems to be her point. travel on the footboard. which is so risky. Sometimes, we have to invite Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Thl! han. them Inside lest they should fall Member need not continue simply on down. but there are some who say, that apprehension that it will collapse; ''No. do not allow; let them fan down". there are so many Members anxious I want that ticketless travelling should to speak. ·be stapped by taking some steps at the station platform itself. They keep Shri N. R. Munlswamy: I am very it open. The main reason behind this glad to know that. is that the ticket c<>l!ectors are !dven a quota. They should get so many So far as ticketless travelling is con- cases per month. They are able to cerned, there is no cooperation from finish that quota in a couple of days \be passengers. Whmever a ticketless and for the remaining 28 days of the "assenger comes in, the attitude of the month, they just do not care. So. the '201'7(AilLSD-6. 1885 Railway KARCH 26, 1962 Budget-General 1886 Discussion [8hri N. R. Muniswamy] quota system should be abolished. the Minister did not hear me proper- Passengers also must see that they do ly or he did not have sufficient not encourage this ticketless travell- material before him to give a clear ing, because the fault lies on both- anewer. I would request him to look the administration and the passen,- into the matter carefully. ger!. It would be better if they can make. a survey for a parallel broad gauge With' these observations, I commend line between Nagpur and Umrer. It this budget to the House. So far as ~t is not done. the present narrow new lines are concerned, the lines gauge line should be converted into need not necessarily be in places which a broad gauge line, because the traffic are new. In the existing places also, between these two towns is increasing. the lines can be improved upon in the The area round about Umrer and way I have suggested by linking small Bhandara district is full of mineral distances. wealth and number of industries are going to be started there in the near Dr. M. S. Aney (Nagpur): I shall future. In view of that, a broad finish in ten minutes. I know that gauge line is a necessity. policy matters about r~ilways can be raised during the budget discussion, Secondly, there is a level crossinJ: but there is enough time to discllss at Amravati station. It is at a point these maters again when the new where the traffic Is always very great. Parliament meets. Therefore, In fact, hundreds of cars are held up would only draw atention to certain this way and that way many times a grievances which require urgent at- day when the trRil}s have to go that tention. way. The demand for the construction of a oVel'bridge ,at that place was. being made for many years. A simi- I find that there is a programme 01 lar demand for an overbridge at reconstruction of dismantled lines and Akola was made and: after a long. also a programme of conversion of time, they sanctioned it and it was narrow gauge lines into broad gauge 'built. But Amravati is still waiting. lines. Under the latter programme, 1 The leve1-crossing which is near the find mention made of the line from station is causing inconvenience to Nagpur to Umrer. The other day I people, particularly those who have put in a supplementary question when to go to their work on time. They are this matter came up before the House held up. Both in the interests of and I asked whether the provision traffic and safety of people who have made is for .the sake of converting the to cross the line, it would be better present narrow gauge line into broad that the construction of an over- gauge or for the construction of a hridge is taken up at the earliest parallel broad gauge line bt>tween possible date. Nagpur and Umrer. The reply was that it is not yet sanctioned. I did Then, I want to refer to an old gri- not know what they are going to sur- evances of mine. Darwha-Pusad line vey. If it is for converting the exist- was a narrow gauge line. It was dis- ing narrow gauge line into brQlld mantled at the time of the first war. gauge, it would be a chfferent sort of A promise was given that when the survey. If it is for constructing a reconstruction of dismantled lines was paralled broad gauge line, it would be t,aken up, this line also would be re- a different sort of survey. I did not constructed. Now that programme is know which of the two things was being worked out; but this line is not going to be done. I did not know for' mentioned in the programme. Morlt what purpose this provision of a few than once I haveuut questions in this thousand nmees was made. Either House and ,the ~ly given is that it 1887 Railway CHAITRA 5, 1884 (SAKA) Budget-GeneTal 1888 DiscussiO!l8 has not been found economical. I rates for carrying those chairs. That -do not know who made the survpY is another difficulty. Though we want and at what time the survey was everyone to be healthy and all the made. Perhaps the survey was made measures of Government are intended by the agent of the GIP Railway at the to make one healthy, the railways time of His Majesty's Government. must remember that not only healthy Still, the same reply is given even persons but even sick persons are now. The towns of Digras, Pusad and bound to travel. So, provision of in- Umerkhed are busy growing toWDS, valid chairs at important stations like with large cotton growing centre$ and Wardha, Bundera and Akola is very very fertile areas; in the vicinity there necessary. Also, arrangements should ~ a big place of religious worship be made for fixing the rates for the called Mahur which is connected only use of the chairs by invalid persons. by a road. Every year thousands of pilgrims come to that area. Sinc~ it is a line which has been dismantled There is one more point. There is a and everything except the rails is station called Majri junction which ~ already there, I would request the between Ward~ and Ballsrshah. Railway Ministry to include it in the From Majiri a train br.mches off to lines for re-construction and not al- Rajura where there is a "olliery. The low that line to remain dismantled Wani, a station on this branch line, like that. It will not cost much either. can be approached only . by one I have no doubt ·that when the line is p,ass~ger train which leaves Nagpur constructed, it will be a very profit- at odd hours, say, in the early morn- able line. and it will be a very easy ing at 4 O'Clock. The fast passenger thing to join it also with the main line trains, from Delhi to Madras and vice between Aurangabad and Hyderabad versa do not stop at that station. I at Nanded in Marathwada. I hope it would suggest that at least one fast will be donE'. train, let it be the Grand Trunk Ex- press or the J anata, should stop at Then I come to the third point. this station, because Wani is a Taluq Shri S. V. Ramaswamy: It should place of great commercial importance. be the fourth point. As it is also a place of an annual fair. There is great traffic and as there is no other train, the passengers Dr. M. S. ADey: Yes, this is the coming by this train are stranded at fourth point. I have five points in all. Majri station, where there is no' wait- ing room for hours together. So, I Mr. Deputy-Speaker: 'rhat shows would m:ggest 1lhat another train how attentive the hon. Deputy Min- should be run to that place. There- ister is. fore some change should be made in the time-table for allowing the Janata Dr. M. S. ADey: The Railway Min- to stop there for two or three minutes ister should know that :lot only heal- and small train should be run bet- thy persons but invalids also travel ween Majri and Rajura immediately by rail. Unfortunately, I have to after that so that the passengers may .place myself in the list of invalid men. not be inconvenience:!. Then. provis- I find that even at important stations ion should be made for waiting room there are no invalid chairs and even as hundreds of passengers go there, when they are available they are in mainly travellers desising to visit the BUCh a condition that You cannot use fair and have Darshan of the Diety, them. Big arm chairs from the Ranganath Swami, in whose name the first-class or second-class w.a:iting annual fair is held. rooms are provided with the result that instead of two persons, four persons have to carry It with great I hope the hon. Minister wilJ take difficulty. Then there are no fixed note of the points mentioned by· me. 1889 Railway MARCH 26. 1962 Budget-General Discussion Sbrimati Manjula Devi (Goalpara): and got me some drinking water. I Mr. Deputy-Speaker, now we are hav- do not know what would be my fate ing a strange experience of an extra- tomorrow. t have also had the ex- ordin,ary and curious position of hav-- perience 9f missing the ,onnecting ing two Parliaments, the old one train when I had to attend meetings assembled here and the new one that of the railways. All these strange cir- is waiting outside, to pass the bud.get cumstances I have experienced in the within a time of less than a month. I North Eastern Frontier Railway, and was in two minds as to whether I I would like to draw the attention of should air my views and, if so, whe- the Minister to this state of affairs. ther they would be superfluous, but the pressing demands in my part of I have seen tickeUess travel and the country, Assam, has ::ompelled me the railway officers are absolute!y to speak, may be for the last time, heLpless in the matter. People comE' in this House. I hope ~hanges ih the hanging in the trains. Any moment timingS of the election will be made to they may fall down. When I drew normalise the situation and not to the attention of the rallVl Then there is the question of sleeper In the railways also, we have deve- coaches. It is good that during the la'll; loped a craze, as in other walks of life, two years, sleeper coaches have beeD fOr show-pieces. We run De Luxe provided in some trains. Now, if a trains and air-conditioned trains, apart passenger travels more than 5 miles, from the Janata trains. But the a sleeper berth is given without extra country can do without air-conditioned charge. But really, a sleeper berth is trains for the time being. Bu it can- needed for the night journey only. The not do without more coaches for thl! man who travels 500 miles, has to tra- third class. With the money for one vel 200 miles in the day and about 30()o air-conditioned coach, we can have miles in the night. Actually, hc needs two third class coaches. That is the a sleeper berth in the night only, for thing which is immediately required 300 miles. If, therefore, you cut down We talk of socialism. We talk of pro- the limit from 500 .to 300 miles, it gress. But actually, if a man looks at will be only right and proper. oUr railways, he wilJ have the impres- For instance, passengers who travel sion that it is the most capitalistic and from Delhi to Lucknow or from Delhi most bureaucratic thing that exists. in to Amritsar, have to cover a distance any part of the world. You are charg- of 300 miles each case. There, you ing si pies per mile from the third must provide sleeper berths without class passenger. You are charging six any extra charge, because, if yeu pro- pies per mile from the first class pas·· vide a sleeper berth for 500 miles only, senger. Take a first class coach which 200 miles are covered in the day, and carries four passengers. In the same 300 miles are left to be covered dur- space, you can carry 20 passengers in ing the night and for the day, the a third class coach. Compare the passenger does not require a sleeper money that is paid by them, with the berth. The sleeper berth is needed for money paid by the four first class the night travel, and therefore, the passengers. The third class passengers limit should be brought down to 300 pay more in the matter of the overall miles so that all travellers who travel revenue of the railways than the other by night may be able to get a sleeper p Shri BaghllllBth Singh (Varanasi): Mr. Deputy-Speaker: I have agreed Will there be any chance for us? with the hon. Member. But, perhaps, there must have been some over- Mr. Deputy-Speaker: There will be, riding priority of necessity that if not today, toWOl"l"OW at least. might have compelled him. Shri Barish CIUIDdra Matlaar (Pali): Shri S. V. Ramaswamy: That is so. Sir, it must be under some very com- pulsion of some extraordinary circum- Mr. Deputy-Speaker: O,therwiae. .stances that the hon. Minister of Rail- normally he must have been here. ways is not present when ~ Railway During the Budget discussions at'least ,Budget is being discussed. There are it is expected that the Minister in- eertain parliamentary proprieties charge should be here. which we have got to look atter and safeguard when we sit in this House Shri Barish ChaDdra Mathar: It even though this is the Lame Duck must be under very pressing compu!- . ,session 'and we are only di!ICUSSing this sion, as I said, of extraordinary cir- Budget. But, still 1 feel that we cumstances. I presume that. should not take things.-at least the -Government cannot aftord to take I will pass on to the subject- things lightly and in that manner, at matter of discussion. I have gone least once in a year when the Budget through the hon. Minister's Budget is discussed. The Minister in charge of speach and I have felt a little distre&o- the Budget should be there. We found sed because there is not even a little the hon. Finance MInister litting all lnention in the entire Budget speech the time here. about the problem which is exercis- ing the minds of the entire countrT. Mr. DepIlty-Speaker: Perhaps he aDd a subject matter about whick may be in the other House. NonnallT, questions have been raised in thia Shr1 Jagjivan Ram Is here during the House even during this session. That Budget discussions. Is he in the other is, regarding the coal crisis or trans- Houle? port bottle-necks which are facing this country, Question after question haa Shri S. V. ~: He is on been raised In this House, tempera tour. have been shown. Senior cblleagues of mine sitting here have given ex- Shri ShaIma_ n ..: On W1fT pression to their indignation and re- urgent work. aentment. 1 thought that the Railway Minister would feel alive to the ex- Mr. Deputy-Speaker: It should pression of opinion on the floor of the have been so ananged that it may House and take note of what has been have been possible for iIrlm to be expressed by business and industry ID here during the Budget dlllC!UUionll. this country and aU over the eountry. 1905 Railway MARCH 26, 1962 Budget-GeneTal 1906 DisCUSsion, [Shri Harish Chandra Mathur] They have given expression to their tions made against it. As against this, I feelings If you see this Presidental find that this is what the national coal Address of the 35th Annual session of Development Corporation, while tak- the Federation of Indian Chambers of ing a review of this year, has said. It Commerce and Industry, where they is said that at present the Corporation. are discussing the development and was producing only 7-71 million tons growth of industry and the various a year and that production of the problems, you will find that the first order of 3 millions tons had been is the Transport situation. Four pages curtailed because of the transport. of this address have been devoted to situation. Restriction of production' the transport problems transport bot- was enforced. We are short of coal. tle-necks the impact or' which worried They say they could produce more ; i-:ten, how industry suffered, what has coal. But they say that restriction of nappened and what has not happened production was enforced in four and what their future apprehensions mechanised collieries, that production are. They have certain very reason- of 3 million tons had been curtailed able apprehensions in this matter. No- because of transport bottlenecks. body will deny that transport, the main brunt of which is borne by the Another article in another issue of Railways, almost forms the spinal the Ea.stern Economist says-I will chord of our economic programmes not go into the coal production side and 'our economic development and a.nd state what their failings and growth. Therefore, in the absence of deficiencies are; I am dealing strictly any material from the hon. Minister with the transport problem-that in his speech or even in the Explana- 'quantitatively while production dur- tory memorandum, I had to fall back ing the Second Five "Year Plan fell upon something which has been said short of target by nearly 5 million by the Railway authorities on this tons'-for which I do not hold the subject through one article which I railways responsible--'for the first have read in the Eastern Economist. seven months of the first year of the There one of the Directors of the Rail- Third Five Year Plan (our currcur- way Board has dealt with the question, rent Plan), total production has been 'Coal transport by rail'. In this arti- only of the order of 23 million tons cle he has tried to justify the stand as against 30 million tons for the cor- that so far as the railways are con- responding periOd of the last year ~f cerned, they have done their full j~b the Second Five Year Plan. ThIS and have discharged their responsI- means that the higher tempo of out- bility. From the figures given in this put already reached is not being article I find that the target of coal maintained'. Even the tempo which traffic 'at the end of the Second Five we had reached last year-there are Year Plan envisaged the movement a good many things which we have to from the Bengal-Bihar coal fields of say regarding coal production during 1,434 wagons a day to the steel plants the Second Five Year Plan, how we and 3,596 to all over consumers. They have failed in this particular matter- have given all the necessary wagons even that tempo whiCh we had reach- to the steel plants. Stil what has hap- ed during the last year of the Second pened? As you know, in this House, Plan could not be maintained. And the Steel Ministry has all the time they say that it could not be main- been complaining. Then against the tained because' transport bOttlenecks 3 596 wagons for other consumers, they and difIlculties are there. have already provided 3,717. I had mentioned earlier that the So I think if these figures are cor- ether day when the Minister of lndus- rect, the Railway Ministry stands try was answering my questions on completely discharged of any allega- the Boor of the Rouse,. he said that SO 1907 Railway CHAITRA 5, 1884 (SAKA) Budget-Genera! Discussions far as cement distribution and pro- I will pass On and hurry from point duction were concerned, we could not to point and mention two or three produce enough cement beoause we points which I will do in less than were not getting enough coal; it could five minutes. We all know that the not be transported because of transport volume of work in the railways is de- bottlenecks. He mentioned it clearly. finitely going up tremendously. There He said we could not distribute ce- is the least doubt about it. When ment because of the transport bottle- these zones were carved out, we neck. felt that the load of work given to the zonal authorities at that time We know what happened to the was just enough for a Railway Gene- Ahmedabad Textile mills. These ral Manager to look after. Now the mills were in doldrums; they were in load has become almost double in al- difficulties. The Ahmedabad textile most every railway. So, whether mills are not a new phenomenon which these General Managers are in a posi- has come up all of a sudden. I do tion to look after such large zones not know how coal supply to the efficiently and effectively or not is a Ahmedabad textile mills suffered why question' which naturally arises out of that industry should have suffe;ed at the increased volume of work and all. So, that is the sorry story re- the expansion programmes which the garding the coal supply to the indus- railways have before themselves. I trial sector, the public as weI! as the am not here pleading that we must private sector, which is responsible have a larger number of zones. I do for most of the difficulties. not want anything should be done which will upset the administrative I will not waste your time and time set-up and again send the whole staff of the HOuse in quoting from this into trouble about their integration, address of the President of the Cham- about their pOSitions, this and that, but ber where they have given very rele- we must not ignore the problem. If vant facts. They have stated how the we find that it is necessary, we must shortage of transport facilities became have a phased programme for it. My apparent even in the early years of humble suggestion in this respect the First Plan, and they go on and would be this. Keeping the present develop the subject in a very business- zones as they are and the divisionali- like manner. I hope the hon. Rail- sation which we have brought about way Minister will give proper atten- on the railways, let Us see that these tion to what has been stated in this divisions are given real and effective address and try to clarify the whole power, that the divisional heads be- matter before us, and let us know the come chota General Managers in their actual present position, what imme- divisions and are able to do things in diate steps they are going to take to an effective manner. Let there be improve the situation and what can decentralisation of power and autho- be expected as a long-range policy rity to these divisions, sO that a great in this matter. Apart from the long- efficiency is brought about. The pre- awaited Neogy Committee Report, the sent Jodhpur Railway in the olden days, Railway Ministry has to function and it is one of the smallest divisions, within itself, and it has also to give but we know how efficiently it had more serious consideration and thought been working and what an excellent to this matter. I do not think we account the officers of that railway will permit an impressilln go to about integrated with the Indian Railways in the country that because of our have given of them3elves. The other transport difficulties, industry will zones are much weaker. If we had suffer. If we cannot cater to the de- a General Manager and everything mands of industry let us not take out else at that time, there is no reason arguments Of stre;ses and strains; let why the Divisional Superintendents are us plan in a manner that we are able not gIven real power now. They must to carry out our pl!ins efficiently. maintain immediate contact with the 1909 Railway KARCH 26, 1962 Budget-GeneTal 1910 Discussion [Shri Harish Chandra Mathur] officers, let them go about in a really class passengers and be popular with efficient manner and do something them, but I wish to plead that along about it, with the need of third class passen- gers, we must take care to see that I would like to say few word~ about the first class coaches are kept really the administrative reform. Of course, first class and that we earmark about it would be very uncharitable of me one crore of rupees to see that the or anybody to say that the rail- first coaches are kept really first class. ways have not done well, in spite of all odds. We' know what they have I wilI conclude by saying that the done, if we just take into considera- development fund of the railways must tion the background, the great handi- be given special attention, and it must caps under which the railways had to be strengthened, because it is through come up and work and maintain E!ven the deveolpment fund that SO many this much efficiency. We all realise amenities and weltare activities have what happened in the 1930s, the years to be catered. Therefore, the deve- of depression, and what happened lopment fund of the railways needs during and after the partition. We further strengthening. know the war-time dislocation. We fully take into account all these I shall take another opportunity to things. -Even if we take into full ac- speak when we discuss the fuI! bud- count all these things, I definitely say get and give my review. I definitely that We have got to tighten up our wish to abide by your ruling, because administration. ~ I read what is it is already 22 minutes since I started contained in i4eB:tplanatory Memo- speaking. . Tandum, about the administrative re- forms, I W'¥' not at alI satisfied. I think seriGijs thought should be de- Shrimati parvathi Krishnan: Mr. Deputy-Speaker, Sir, I would like voted to this matter. Certain admi- nistrative reforms have to come about. first to congratulate the Ministry of Railways on at least giving in reality this line-making a beginning-the As you said that I should conclude Salem-Bangalore link. The De:outy withiR 20 minutes, I shall not dilatE! Minister himself went out of his way, upon this very important subject of and I think he was respossible even administrative reforms, but I do wish for putting some physical labour into to emphasiZe that efficiency should be it, and after years and yearS of ap- improved. I have already mentioned pealing On the floor of the House, this the strengthening of the divisions and very important link has been started. about the Divisional Superintendents. It is quite pleasant to see it coming But something must be done about the into being, though I do not know if it administrative reforms also. We must was the opportune or an inopportune inject 'better efficiency into the staff. moment when it was chosen. I am Let us not ignore, in our anxiety for not sure whether it was with an eye to the third class travellers, the impor- the elections or whether it was hur- tance of efficiency. We must give the ried through sO quickly because of third class passenger all the amenities, the conjunction of the eight planets! but let our first class coaches and up- Anyhow, be that as it may, I cannot per class coaches be really first class. ,but congratUlate the Ministry at least It will hardly require about a crate on beginning this work. Perhaps the rupees. Could you not set apart just same speed and the same zeal, I hope, a crore of rupees and make the first will also be maintained in order to "lass coaches realIy first class? It is see that the line comes into being in these coaches that our foreign tou- very quickly. But I am sceptical rists travel. Of course, we have to about it, because fOO' many years also, pamper and do more for the third there has been another problem fac- 19II Railwall CHAITRA 5, 1884 (SAKA) Budget-Gene7'al 1912' Di&CU8non b' ing the Southern Railway. It was the place. As has been already pointed question of doubling of the track on out by the previous speaker, the queS- the south-west broad gauge. Here tion of railway freights and fares be- again, our Deputy Minister has been ing increased is one which certainly very busy. He has also worked very will not meet with the approval of the hard, because, here again it was near electorate which has elected the new Salem that the doubling was begun! Parliament in order that _that Parlia- That a1s~with both the Deputy ment should look to their needs and Ministers present-was perhaps be- requirements in relation to existing' fore the conjunction of the eight conditions. planets and the general elections. With the doublin~ of the track, Everywhere the complaint has been -;;f everybody thought that something that the- fares have been increasing - , very grand was done. This neglected and now perhaps the fares have- broad guage line in the south sud- reached the peak level that the travel-- denly got better treatment, Ministers ling public could possibly bear. rushing with shovles in their hands Operational efficiency is not such to- and heavy rails carried on their de- day on the railways as would make crepit shoulders. Now when we look any passenger pay a single nilya l'ilisa at this white paper and railway bud- more thinking thilt he is going to get a get, naturally the spirits go down shilre in it.- again, because the speed of the doubl- ing of the track seems to have slowed Year after yeilr, we have the same down as soon as the elections were pilttern in the Railwily Minister'. over. It is not a very encouraging speech, in the ExpZanatoTv MemoTan-- number of miles that one sees in the dum and in the various papers and white paper which has been given to book.~ circulilted to us. showing hov us. So, when the Minister thinks in the railwilYs hilve carried SO many terms of national integration, let him more passengers and so many remember what happened in his more tons of goods. In fact, as far as district, what happened in -the the railways are concerned, they can south-west broad gauge belt and it certainly not be accused ot modesty might be a safe belt to speed up the in whatever form, whether it is the doubling of the track there, to guar- Ministry or the Board. But in spite antee that there will be more track of this pattern year after year in the capacity, so that the demands both papers that are put before us, it is a for goods and passenger traffic on that fact that those who actually travel in- very over-loaded section of Southern the railways do not consider that ope- Railway may be ment adequately and rational efficiency is anything that we efficieRtlY-I am not sure whether I can be proud of. should use the word 'efficiently' be- cause that also is a moot point whe- Apart from that, onlY' in the last ther the railway ill a concern-in as session, We had a discussion on the short a time as possible. increasing number of accidents on the railways. I demanded at that time- Then, I must say that the speech of that the Minister should set UD a com- the Railway Minister leads to a grave mittee to go into this queStion oC apprehension, because in the speech impr.Qving the working of the railways- there is an indication that the railway and to find out how accidents could revenues are not all that they should be avoided. It is a welcome feature be. There is some illdication that that thP. comntittee was aDoointed. passenger and freight fares might Now in the Railway Minister';-speech. have to be increased. I carefully use we are told that: the word 'might', and I do not put it more categorically because I hope in ''The problem of safety of travel the short period between now and the from the POint of view of accidents time the new Parliament discusses the has throughout been tackled with railway budget, th~ does not take as much imagination and care- '1913 Railway MARCH 26, 1962 Budget-General 1914 DiBetusi01l [Shrimati Parvathi Krishnan] 'there seems to be more imagination accusethem of having imagination but :than care- I hope they would use more of care though, as far as we can see, the record " ... with as much imagination Of the Railway Minister during the 'and care as possible through ini- last three months does not convince tiating educative, psychological and us that they can do that either. punitive measures and, at the 'same time, providing improved Further on We find that they are technical devices, wherever possi- trying "to initiate educational, psycho- ble, as an aid to the staff." logical and punitive measur,,·'. Puni- tive measures, of course, We know, During the last three months this ques- because always scape goats arc there, -tion was debated on the floor of this an ordinary railway employee who is House, there has been a further series at the bottom of the ladder; punitive Of accidents. In my part of the coun- measures can always be used, what- try itself, there has been an accident ever may be the occasion. But, as far mlly recently in Kumbakonam, a .... me as the psychological measures are con- which will be very familiar because it cerned, I think it would be a very is very common in Indian parlour. good idea to start from the top of the ladder, and perhaps some education Shri S. V. Ramaswamy: Where could be imparted to them. I doubt was it? very much whether psychological ... Shrimati Parvathi Krishnan: I said Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Then who Kumbakonam a name which a familiar would be the giver of that education? in common parlance. It is perhaps ·directed to vou because vou have been Sbrimati Parvathi Krishnan: Who- busy in Saiem. - ever claims that it has to be done. An Bon. Member: Whom is she Mr. Deputy Speaker: She says that addl'essing? it would be given first to the top. Then who will give the education? Sbrimati Parvathi Krishnan: I am 'sorry, I was addressing the Minister. But we find these accidents are there, Shrimati Parvathi Krishnan: Who- sometimes they do not reach the press, ever wants to take the responsibility because the press do not know t.he can do it. I am reading it open. Here minor accidents that take place whe!e we haVe got so many psychological and one train runs into another, and there pathological cases. and all of them go bave been manv such accidents during together. Anyway, I do not find any thp. last thl'ee·months where loss of mention of improvement in technical life has been involved. In this context, devices in the terms of reference of the setting up of a committee is a very the Committee. So, I would like the welcome feature. but why is it that hon. Minister to clarify, when he is time and again, 'in spite of all that is replying, as to what he actually meant said on the floor of this House in by considering the question. The spite of all that is said by the pu.blic, terms of reference of the Committee ·comments from the press 'and so on, are "to consider the question of acci- we find that the Railway Ministry at dents on Indiall railways and to sug- every stage is sitting quiet and con- gest measures by which they can be tinuing with the same work, with the further minimised". Then it says very same formula that we have been briefly that the Committtee has started bearing year aftilr year? its deliberations. What exactly they hope the Committee are covering! Now we are told that they wiII use Because, this is a very wide term of imagination and care. I would not reference that has been given. $pe- llailway CHAITRA 5, 1884 (SAKA) Bu4get--GeneTat 1916 Discussion cifically, is the Committee going to go Then, there is the question of the into the working of the railways, the Railwav employees who are not ~up operational efficiency and so on? Are posed to be taking part in political they going to be given facilities to activity. During the elections, varIous visit various goods-sheds and the General Managers, I am told-I am various establishments of the railways sure of one General Manager, the from where it is necessary to find out General Manager of the Southern whether the complaints that are there Ra:lwav-drcularised the various Divi- are correct or not? For instance, we sions 'and through the Divisions are told that the train examiners notices were put up everywhere that have been pointing out that the work railwav employees should not partiCi- that they are expected to do, the work- pate in the election campaign that was load that they are given, is too heavy, taking place. That was further clari- that they are unable to carry out their fied, I am told, that they werp. not work properly and very often the sUDPosed to be attending meetings or examination that they have to carry to go out canvassine for the candi- on of the wagons or of the locomotives dates of one party or another, or to and so on, that these examinations appear on platforms and make speech- sometimes tend to be cursory, because es, and so on. Yet, it has come to my the number of wagons, locomotives etc. knowledge, I have personlly also that they are expected to examine in seen, that railway employe2" b=]ong- a given period of time are too many. ing to one particular union canvassE'd So, are all these things going to be for the Congress candidate in taken up or not, because this can be that constituency. It is not interpreted to mean anything-Uto my constituency, because I can see the consider the question of accidents on Minister nodding his head. This is Indian railways and to suggest mea- another constituency which is in bet- sures by which they can be further ween his and mine, the best part of the minimised". I would be grateful to sandwich. Anyway, we saw that the hon. Minister if he could clarify to happening. Personally, I am for it. us what is the field that will be cover- I think that they should be given the ed what, they expect this Committee right to participate in electioneering. to do and how far the Committee is That is why I would not like to .say going to be helped in order to go into that action should be taken agamst the actual mechanical and operational that employee Far from it, On the side of the railways because, as it is, other hand. I would request the Rail- We see that there are technical experts way Minister and the Ministry to be there. Being a logical person, I pre- large-minded enough, to be politically sume-I am not sure whether the aware enough and advanced enough to Ministry is quite sO logical-that this extend this privilege and to give this aspect will be looked into, because, right to all railway employees, irres- time and again, when this question pective of which party or which can- has been discussed, it has been dis- didate they may work for or campaign cussed from this angle also. for. Because, JXltInicipal elections are on the corner. l!:iections are there throughout the next five years. It is Then, there is the question of revi- not only a question of election to par- sion of dearness allowance which has liament or the State Assembly. There- been referred to by Members. I fore, since there have been some would like to bring thl\t to the notice courageous employees--perhaps, party of the Minister because this is some- their courage emanated from the fact thing that is there in the minds of the that they were campaigning for the workers and is a problem which have Congress Candidate - courageuos to be taken up by them and tackled enough to step into the fray and assert at an early stage, if they want indus- their political freedom, as far as elec- trial peace to be maintained in the tions were concerned, I would request Railways. • the Railway Ministry to extend that 2017 (Ai) ~2. 1917 Railway MARCH 26, 1962 Budget-General 1918 Discussion [Shrimati Parvathi Krishnan] Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Then Shri right so that those who want to have Raghunath Singh might begin. After their political freedom-I am saying in him, Shri P. G. Deb will be called. respect of elections--may also be granted that. I would welcome that. ~;rJ"'f ~ : ~. ~~If, But, this kind of invidious treatment, Ili'i this very convenient shutting from ~r ~~ ~ ~ ~~ 1INr~ ~ one's eyes all those employees who f.t; ~or lIilf;nfuii IR ;it 1ft!: ;f"A" work for one particular party is something that certainly has to be con- "I'1lJ1lT mrr 'fT f.t; ~ ~ ti 1rJ1f demned and is reprehensible. : i , ~ ~"A" ~ tfiI; 'fT I ~ 17 hrs. 1J~~~f.t; ...•..• Individual political freedom, if it is ~. ~: ~ given, should be given to all alike qr;r;r'fli irrespective of which party they may ~\iIT-U~~ ? work for Or which party they may support. Today the position is that there have been some who had the JSit ~'f m~ : 6ft ~ I courage to come forward and work. Let that example be emulated by ~.~:a-)m ill lfi\Ir others. But that example can be GlRr 1JNVT ;;ntl" 'fJi I emulated only if protection is given by the railways themselves on such occasions. 11.02 hrs. Mr. Deputy-Speaker: If the hon. Member could conclude in one or two minutes, the House would give her its lndulgence. The Lok Sabha then adjourned till Eleven of the Clock on Tuesday, March Shrimati Parvathi KrishDaD: I have 27, 19621Chaitra 6, 1884 (Salca) • .. ltnished. ~. , 1919 [DAILY DIGEST] [Monay. March 26. 1962/Chaitra S. 1884 (Saka)) COLUMNS WRITTEN ANSWERS TO ORAL ANSWERS TO QUES· QUESTIONS-contd. TIONS- 1723-SS S.Q. Sub;ect CoLUMNS S.Q. Sub;ect No. No. 203. Aid to students of Delhi 188. Air s!,ace violation by Schools 1760 Pakistan 1723-26 204. Oil exploration in U.P.. 1']60-61 189. Organised infiltration into 206. Russian let Aero-engines 1761 Assam I7z6-29 207. British Credit for Coal 196. Administrative and Industry Municipal set-up of 208. Hindu ReligiousEndown- Delhi 1729-31 ments Commission 197· Union Territories . . 1731-33 209. Refining of A nkleshwar 198. Free primary'education. 1733-36 oil 199. Export of heavy melting ZIO. Alloy and Special Tool scrap 1736-37 Plant 213· Export ofscrap 1737-39 Z15. Two classes in M. A. 200. Engineering Colleae at Examinations Bijnor 1739-40 Z16. Iunior Staff Councils Z12. Pre-fabricated low cost 217. Co-ordinstion Commit- houses r74D-4Z tee on Physical Educa- zr4. Aligarh Muslim Univer- tion and Youth Welfare sity Enquiry Commit- 218. Oil production tee Report I 742-4S zzo. Levy on heavy melting U.S.O. scrap I 74S-46 No. 2ZI. Aligarh Muslim Univer- sity Enquiry Commit- 286. Resignation of a clerk for tee Report 1746-so elections zu. Pay scales of Defence Z87. Elections in Sarha Cons- Officers 17So-SZ tituency in Punjab Z05. Expansion of Magistracy 288. Foreign exchange holding and Police in Delhi • 175z-S4 of Orissa Chief Minis- ter 219. ·Pay scales of Police Officers 17S4-SS z89. Mines in Maharashtra . 290. Nanavati case 1768 WRITI"EN ANSWERS TO 291. Manufacture of Air QUESTIONS 17SS-98 Defence Radar Sets 1768-69 292. Rebate on Income Tax S.Q. for Export Promotion No. 293. Survey and exploration of minerals 1769-']0 190. Branch of Law Ministry in Madrss . . 1755 294. Lubricants 191. Committee for grading of 295. Aid India Club Meeting. 17']0 oil 17S6 296. Saving during Second 192. Notified Areas under Five Year Plan period I 771-7Z Criminal Law 1756-57 297. Senior Staff Councils 1772-73 193. Women teachers in ..rural 298. Senior Staff Councils 1773 areas 1757-58 299. Senior Staff Councils 1773-74 194. Election expenses in Orissa 1758 300: Senior Staff Councils 1774 195. Copper Smelter Plant at 301. Senior Staff Councils 1774-76 Khetri 1758-S9 302. Senior Staff Councils 1776 201. Law cost car 1759 303. Senior Staff Councils 1776-77 202. Sta1f of Delhi A;aed Schoo1s1759-6Q .304. Election candidate' 1177 1921 [DAlLY DIGEST] WRITTEN ANSWERS TO COt.11MNS QUESTIONS---contd. MOTIONS FOR ADJOURN- U.S.Q. Sub;eet COLUMNS MENT- 1798-1814 No. The Speaker withheld his 30S. Explosion near Jama consent to the moving of the Masjid, Delhi 1778 following adjournment mo- 306. Violation ef FOleign tions given notice of by the Exchange Rules . 1778-79 members shown against each :- National Integration Conference 1779 (I) Reported killing Sarva,hri 308. Ex-INA personnel 1779"80 and arSon by Naga S.M. Baner- hostiles in six jee, Premj 399· Indian writers 1780 villages near Hof- R. Assar, 310. Houses for Scheduled long in North Bra; Ra; Castes in flood affected CacharHills. Singh and areas of Orissa . Balra; Madhok. 3II. Percentage of voting in (2) Reported decision Shri Hem Orissa 1781 of the Pakistan Barua. 312. Pension Rules 1781-83 Government to inaugurate the 313. Coal washeries 1783 Karnfuli Dam National Mineral Deve- which on comple- lopment Corporation 1783-84 tion will sub-merge Plying of tongas and portions of Indian rehras on New Delhi territory . reads (3) Oil agreement with 316. Teachers of aided schools Italian firm . in Delhi PAPERS LAID ON THE 317. Cases of murder and assault in Delhi TABLE 318. Flood relief for Oris;a (1) A copy each of the follow- ing papers :- 319· Confirm:tion of emr loy- ee' of the Office of Iron (i) Annual Report olthe Indian and Steel Controller Oil Company Limited, 320. Delhi Schools Bombay, for the year 1960-61 along with the 321. Summer vacation in Audited Accounts and Delhi School. the comments of the 322. Pictograph nearAkhnur Comptroller and Auditor Temple in Jammu and General thereon, under Kashmir r. sub-section (1) of section Statistics about General 6'9A of the Companies Elections 1790 Act, 1956 .. London Conference of (ii) Revie"" by the Govern- Engineers ment on the working of Skull scrap . the above Company. Supply of raw material (2) A copy each of the follow- for steel plants . ing Notifications making Export of heavy melting certain amendments to scrap . . . 1792-93 Schedule III to the Indian Abu Simbel Temple in Police Service (Pay) Rules, Aswan Dam site 1793-94 1954, under sub-section (2) Hindi translation of of section 3 of the All India 329· Services Ac.t, 1951 :- Central Acts 1794-9S 3~0. Central Institute of (a) G.S.R. No. 1066 dated Education Delhi 1795-96 the 2nd September, 331. New Colle@es in Delhi 1796 1961 332. Police Force in Delhi 1796-97 Government servants (b) G.S.R. No. 1091 dated 333· 1797 the 9thSeptember,1961 . 334· Oil Refinery at Koyali 1797-98 (c) G.S.R. No. 1233 dated 33S' Central and State Taxes -~" Tea - 1798 the 7th October, 1961 . 1923 [DAlLY DIGEST] PAPERS LAID ON THE PAPERS LAID ON THE TABLE--contd. TABLE--contd. COLUMNS COLUMNS (3) A copy each of the follow- ing Notifications mak- (VI) S.D. No. 724 dated the h'g certain amendments to 12th March, 1962. Schedule III to the Indian (7) A copy of the Central Administrative Service (pay) Excise (Fourth Amendment) Rules, 1954, under sub- Rules, 1962 published in section (2) of section 30fthe Notification No. G.S.R. 286 All India Services Act, dated the loth March, 1962, 1951 :- under section 38 of the (a) G.S.R. No. 1244 dated Central Excises and SaII Act, thel4th October, 1961. 1944· (b) G.S.R. No. 1246 dated (8) A copy each of the follow- the 14th October, 1961. ing Notification under sub- section (4) of section 43B of (4) A copy each of the follow- the Sea Customs Act, 1878 ing Rules, under sub-section (2) and section 38 of the Central of section 3 of the All India Excises and Salt Act, ~944, Services Act, 1951 :- making certain further amend- (a) The All India Services ments to the Customs (Travelling Allowances) and Central Excise Duties Amendment Rules, 1961 Export Drawback (General) published in Notification Rules, 1960 :- No. G.S.R. 1125 dated the 16th September, 1961 (a) G.S.R. No. 287 dated the loth March, 1962 (b) The Indian Civil Service Provident Fund Amend- (b) G.S.R. No. 288 dated ment Rules, 1961 pub- the lOth March, 1962. lished in Notification No. G.S.R. 1274 dated the (c) G.S.R. No. 289 dated 21St October, 196J. the lOth March, 1962. (5) A copy each of the follow- (9) A copy each of the follow- ing Notification making ing Orders under sub-sec- certain amendments to the tion (6) of section 3 of the Secretary of State's Services Essential Commodities Act, (General Provident Fund) 1955:- Rule, 1943. under SUb-section (2) of section 3 of the All (.) The Roller Mills Wheat India Services Act, 1951 :_ Products (Price Control) Order, 1962 published in (a) G.S.R. No. 1275 dated Notification No. G.S.R. the 21st October, 1961. 37 dated the 17th March, (6) G.S.R. No. 1276 dated 1962. the .2lst October, 1961. (iz) The Delhi Roller Flour (6) A copy each of the follow- Mills Wheat Products ing Notifications under (price Control) Order, 1962 section 43 of the Copyright published in Notification Act, 1957, making certain No. G.S.R. 375 dated further amendments to the the 17th March, 1962. International Copyright Order, 1958:- (10) A copy each of the follow- ing Notifications under sub- (i)' S.O. No. 3039-A dated section (3) of section 27 of the the 23 rd December, 1961 Foreign Exchange Regula- (ii) S.O. No. I dat!d the tion Act, 1947, making certain 1St January, 1962. further amendments to the Foreign Exchange Regula- (iiI) S.O. No. 144 dated the 12th January, 1962. tion Rules, 1952:- (iv) S.o. No. 671 dated the (.) G.S.R. No. 50 dated the 1St March 1962. 13th,January,1962. (v) S.O. No. 723 dated th~ (ii) G.S.R•. No. 264 dated lith MIII$, ~;. t/le 3rd M!IrI;h, 1962. [DAILY DIGIST] CoLUMNS COLUMNS REPORTS OF ESTIMATES BILL PASSED-"DIIld.. COMMITTEE PRESENTED 1818 Mter clause-by-clause The following Reports were consideration the Bill, presented :- as amended, was passed. (.) Hundred and sixtieth Report; RAILWAY BUD Gf.T-GkN- ' (i.) Hundred and sixty-first RAL DISCUSSION. . 1856--191' Report; and (iiI) Hundred and siKty- General Discussion on the secondl.Report Budget (Railways), 1'}62-63 commenced. The discus- ~ sion was not concluded. f BILLS PASSED- 1819-S4 (.) Further discussion on AGENDA FOR TUESDAY, the motion to consider MARCH, 27, 196:z/CHAITRA the finance Bill, 196e 6, 1884 (Saka) concluded and the motion was adopted. After Clause- Further General Discussion by-clause consideration on the Railway Buc!get, the Bill was passed. 1962-63 and voting on Demands for Grants on, (u) The Minister of Tfl:Ds- Account in respect of Rail- port and Commumca- ways, 1'}62-63. Considera- tions (Dr. P. Subbarayan) tion and passing of the moved for consideration Appropriation (~ai1ways) of the Telegraph Wires Vote on AccoWlt Bill, 1962; (Unlawful Possession) and the Advocates (Amend- Amendment Bill. The motion was adopted. ment) Bill. GMGIPND_LSIl-ao17(Ai)LS-~-6-6a-94S.