3580 The Ministry [ASSEMBLY] The Ministry

F~~islnfiire&ssembly Tziesday, 24 February, 1976

Thf : Ministry-Leader of the House, Government Whip Attorney-General and Minister of Justice; and ParXamentary Secretary-Leader and Deputy- Leader of the Country Party-Electoral District the Hon. Sir John Bryan Munro Fuller, of Wagga Wagga (Issue and Return of Writ: Election of Josepli John Schipp)-Member Sworn M.L.C., Minister for Planning and Envir- -Electoral District of Orange (Resignation of Sir onment and Vice-President of the Execu- Charles Cutler: Election of Gary Bruce West)- Member Sworn-Electoral District of Monaro (Re- tive Council; the Hon. James Caird Brux- signation of Stephen George Mauger)-Vacant Seat-Administration of the Government-Assent ner, M.L.A., Minister for Transport and to Bills-Governor's Salary LAmendment ) Bill- Minister for Highways; the Hon Frederick The Clerk Summoned-Death of W. F. Sheahan, a former Minister of the Crown-Death of A. G. Maclean Hewitt, M.L.C., Minister for Entickmp a former Minister of the Crown- Labour and Industry, Minister for Con- ~egislative'Council: Vacant Seat (Issue of Writ) -R-rated Films at Drive-in Theatres (Petition)- sumer Affairs and Minister for Federal Questions without Notice-Select Committee on the Fishing Industry (Report, Minutes and Evidence) Affairs; the Hon. Richard Owen Healey, -Printing Committee (Fifteenth Report)-Public M.L.A., Minister for Health; the Hon. Accounts Committee (Election of Members)- Housing Funds-Western Lands (Amendment) Thomas Lancelot Lewis, M.L.A., Minister Bill (1nt.)-National Fitness (Repeal) Bill (second reading)-Registered Clubs B111 (second reading) for Local Government; the Hon. Milton --Adiournment (Floods in Creek Systems)- Arthur Morris, M.L.A., Minister for De- Questions upon Notice centralisation and Development; the Hon. George Francis Freudenstein, M.L.A., Minister for Mines and Minister for En- ergy; the Hon. William Peter Coleman, Mr SPEAKER (THE HON. JAMESCAMERON) took the chair at 2.30 p.m. B.A., M.Sc. (Econ.), M.L.A., Chief Secre- tary; the Hon. Neil Edward William Pick- Mr SPEAKER offered the Prayer. ard, B.A., Dip.Ed., L.Th., M.L.A.; Min- ister for Education; the Hon. David Bruce THE MINISTRY Cowan, M.L.A., Minister for Agriculture and Minister for Water Resources; the Sir ERIC WILLIS: I wish to inform the Hon. Maxwell Stanley Ruddock, M.Ec., House that on Friday, 23rd January, 1976, M.L.A., Minister for Revenue and Assist- the Hon. Thomas Lancelot Lewis, M.L.A. ant Treasurer; the Hon. Ian Ross GrifEth, submitted to His Excellency the Lieutenant- M.L.A., Minister for Housing and Min- Governor his resignation as Premier and ister for Co-operative Societies; the Hon. Treasurer and as a member of the Execu- Colin Murray Fisher, M.L.A., Minister for tive Council, an action which involved the Lands and Minister for Forests; the Hon. resignation of all Ministers from their James Arthur Clough, M.L.A., Minister for offices and as members of the Executive Youth, Ethnic and Community Affairs; Council. His Excellency then commissioned and the Hon. David Amos Arblaster, me to form a new Ministry. On the same M.L.A., Minister for Culture, Sport and day I was sworn in as Premier and Treas- Recreation and Minister for Tourism. urer and as a member of the Executive Council, and the following gentlemen were The Minister for Planning and Environ- appointed by His Excellency as members ment will be represented in this House by of the Executive Council and to the offices the Deputy Premier and Minister for Pub- Works and Minister for Ports, ,and the c indicated: lMinisteri for Labour and Industry, Minister The Hon. Leon Ashton Punch, M.L.A., for Consumer Affairs and Minister for Deputy Premier, Minister for Public Works Federal Affairs will be represented by the and Minister for Ports; the Hon. John Minister for Revenue and Assistant Treas- Clarkson Maddison, B.A., LL.B., M.L.A., urer. Leader of House 124 FEB., 19761 Vacant Seat 3581

LEADER OF THE HOUSE, ELECTORAL DISTRICT OF ORANGE GOVERNMENT WHIP AND PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY RESIGNATION OF THE HON. SIR CHARLES BENJAMIN CUTLER, K.B.E., E.D. Sir ERIC WILLIS: I wish to inform the House also that the Hon. J. C. Maddison, Mr SPEAKER:I have to inform the House B.A., LL.B., M.L.A., will be the Leader of that on 16th December, 1975, L received a the House and that the honourable member letter from Sir Charles Benjamin Cutler, for Yaralla, Mr L. W. Mutton, has been K.B.E., E.D., resigning his seat as member appointed Government Whip. In addition, for the electoral district of Orange. I wish to inform the House that I have appointed the honourable member for Vaucluse, Mr K. R. Doyle, B.Ec., M.L.A., ISSUE AND RETURN OF WRIT: ELECTION OF GARRY as Parliamentary Secretary to the Premier. BRUCE WEST Mr Speaker informed the House that his LEADER AND DEPUTY-LEADER writ issued on 14th January, 1976, in OF THE COUNTRY PARTY accordance with the provisions of section Mr PUNCH: I have to inform the 70 of the Parliamentary Electorates and House that on 9th December, 1975, I was Elections Act, 1912, for the election of a elected Leader of the Country Party and member of the Legislative Assembly for the the Hon. J. C. Bruxner was elected Deputy- Leader. electoral district of Orange in the room of Sir Charles Benjamin Cutler, K.B.E., E.D., resigned, had been duly returned to him ELECTORAL DISTRICT OF with a certificate endorsed thereon by the WAGGA WAGGA Returning Officer of the election of Garry ISSUE AND RETURN OF WRIT: ELECTION OF Bruce West, to' serve as such member. JOSEPH JOHN SCHIPP Mr Speaker informed the House that, upon the passing of the resolution of 15th October, 1975, declaring vacant the seat MEMBER SWORN of the Hon. Wallace Clyde Fife, resigned, he had issued a writ on 7th November, 1975, Mr West took and subscribed the oath for the election of a member to serve in of allegiance and signed the roll. the Legislative Assembly for the electoral district of Wagga Wagga in the room of the said the Hon. Wallace Clyde Fife, and that ELECTORAL DISTRICT OF MONARO

such writ had been duly returned with a RESIGNATION OF STEPHEN GEORGE MAUGER certificate endorsed thereon by the Return- ing Officer of the election of Joseph John Mr SPEAKER: I have to inform the House Schipp, to serve as such member. that on. 27th January, 1976, I received a letter from Stephen George Mauger, re- signing his seat as member for the electoral MEMBER SWORN district of Monaro. Mr Schipp took and subscribed the oath of allegiance and signed the roll. VACANT SEAT Mr SPEAKER: Order! I point out to hon- ourable members that the taking of the oath Motion (by Sir Eric Willis) agreed to: and the subscribing of the roll is a moment That the seat of Stephen George Mauger, of supreme importance in the life of every member for the electoral district of Monaro, hath become, and is now, vacant by reason of member of this Parliament. I do not want the resignation therefrom of the said Stephen levity at the time it is being done. George Mauger. 3582 Government Administration (ASSEMBLY] Assent to Bills

ADMINISTRATION OF THE Totalizator (Amendment) Bill GOVERNMENT Totalizator (Off-course Betting) Amend- ment Bill Mr Speaker reported the following mes- sage from His Excellency the Lieutenant- Weights and Measures (Amendment) Bill Governor: Valuers Registration Bill Taree Municipal Council (Bourke Street L. W. STREET, Public Reserve Land Sale) Bill Lieutenant-Governor. Australian Museum Trust Bill The Honourable Laurence Whistler Street, Chief Justice of New South Wales, Lieutenant- Crown Lands and Other Acts (Rents and Governor of the State of New South Wales, Interest Rates) Amendment Bill has the honour to inform the Legislative Land Tax Management (Amendment) Bill Assembly that, consequent on the Governor of New South Wales, Sir Roden Cutler, assum- Superannuation (Amendment) Bill ing the administration of the Government of Gaming and Betting (Poker Machines) the Commonwealth of Australia in the absence Taxation Amendment Bill of the Governor-General overseas, he this day Government Savings Bank (Amendment) took the Oath of Allegiance and the Official Bill and Judicial Oath before the President of the Court of Appeal of the Supreme Court of Local Government and Other Authorities New South Wales and assumed the administra- (Superanuation) Amendment Bill tion of the Government of the State. Mina Rescue (Amendment) Bill Government House, Public Works (Amendment) Bill Sydney, 23 December, 1975. Workers' Compensation (Further Amend- Mr Speaker reported the following mes- ment) Bill sage from His Excellency the Governor: Commercial Law (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill A. R. CUTLER, Courts of Petty Sessions (Civil Claims) Governor. Amendment Bill The Governor of the State of New South Wales, Sir Roden Cutler, has the honour to Industrial Arbitration (Employment Agen- inform the Legislative Assembly that, after cies) Amendment Bill relinquishing the administration of the Gov- Parliamentary Electorates and EIections ernment of the Commonwealth of Australia, (Amendment) Bill he re-assumed the administration of the Gov- ernment of the State on 4 February, 1976. GOVERNOR'S SALARY (AMENDMENT) Government House, BILL Sydney, 16 February, 1976. Mr SPEAKER reported the receipt of a ASSENT TO BILLS message from His Excellency the Governor stating that His Excellency had reserved Royal assent to the following bills re- the Governor's Salary (Amendment) Bill ported: for the signification of Her Majesty's plea- District Court (Further Amendment) Bill sure thereon. Finance (Greyhound-racing Taxation) Man- agement (Amendment) Bill Mr SPEAKER reported the receipt of a Finance Taxation Management (Amend- further message frolm His Excellency the ment) Bill Governor signifying that Her Majesty had Fruit Cases Repeal Bill been pleased to assent to the Governor's Gaming and Betting (Amendment) Bill Salary (Amendment) Bill by Order in Industrial Arbitration (Amendment) Bill Council on 19th January, 1976. Land Tax (Amendment) Bill ASSENT TO BILLS Miscellaneous Acts (Administrative Changes) Amendment Bill (No. 2) Royal assent to the following bills re- Moneylending (Amendment) Bill ported: Northumberland Insurance Company Limi- Companies (Amendment) Bill ted Bill Daylight Saving (Referendum) Bill Pay-roll Tax (Amendment) Bill Securities Industry Bill Racing (Amendment) Bill Statutory and Other OfEces Remuneration Sydney Opera House (Amendment) Bill Bill Clerk Summoned [24 FEB.,19761 Dentk of W. F. Sheahan 3583 THE CLERK SUMMOiNED Communist Party. Later, he attacked the State Labor Party's record on the Sydney Mr SPEAKER: Order! I have to inform the House that during the adjournment the Clerk Opera House. At first, Billy Sheahan op- received two summonses to appear before posed the idea of an opera house, for he felt the Supreme Court of New South Wales there was a mare urgent need for more in the case of Ng Biu Kuen against the schools and hospitals. When he lost this Estate of Henry Lee Young and Others battle, he fought for the Opera House to be and produce certain documents; and that built on the site of what is now Menzies the produotion of those documents was Hotel rather than at Bennelong Point. His authorized by me. contention was that if it was built at this more central site, thousands of people could reach it by rail, leaving their oars at sub DEATH OF THE HONOURABLE WILLIM urban stations. He wanted Bennelong Point FRANCIS SHEAHAN, Q.C., A FORMER OF reserved for a gracious new Parliament MINISTER THE CROWN House-a view that I personally shared at Sir ERIC WILLIS (Earlwood), Premier that time. and Treasurer [2.43]: I move: As a Minister Billy Sheahan fulfilled part That this House extends to Mrs Sheahan and family the deep sympathy of Members of his ambition to change the face of Syd- of the Legislative Assembly in the loss sus- ney by removing the trams from King Street tained bv the death of the Honourable William and getting rid of the fruit and vegetable Francis Sheahan, QC., a former Minister of barrows that added to the congestion. In the Crown. another area of controversy, he wanted It is with deep regret that I formally in- part of Sydney Hospital demolished to allow form the House of the death of Mr W. F. Martin Place to continue into the Domain. Sheahan, a member of this House from 1941 Hs considered it should be reduced to a to 1973. during which time he held several casualty hospital and the main building ministerial portfolios. As a mark of respect transferred to1 Kensington. from the people of this State, Mr Sheahan wac accorded a State funeral. On behalf of When Bill Sheahan announced his retire- the Government, I take this opportunity to ment from Parliament in 1973, he was convey to Mrs Sheahan and her family the quoted as saying he had had many years condolences of honourable members on this of conflict. But, he said, the conflict had side of the House. been necessary so that he could give ex- pression to the wishes of the people. The Since Mr Sheahan died there have been wishes of the people were, of course, al- many tributes from the politicians on both ways his prime consideration. sides of this House who became his friends during his thirty-two years on the Govern- Not only the people of his electorate of ment and Opposition benches. I know the Yass, which later became Burrinjuck, but Opposition will wish to supplement these also people throughout the State will have by speaking to the motion. Billy Sheahan cause to remember the statesmanship he earned the lasting respect of the House as brought to the offices he held as a Minister a forceful orator. Without hesitation I of the Crown. During his parliamentary would nominate him as the best debater- career he established a proud record in especially without notice-that the Labor social reform. Perhaps his most notable Party has had in all my years in this Parlia- achievement was the abolition of the Lunacy ment. Act and the consequent removal of the stigma associated with mental illness. He was a fearless idealist. He would not compromise his views, even if it meant in- As Minister for Transport, he became curring the wrath of his own party, of concerned at reports of a rapid increase in which he was a federal executive member. what was known in the government work- For instance, in 1950 he was the only shops as foreign orders-in other words, State Cabinet Minister to support the jobs done by tradeslmen using government Menzies' Government's proposal to ban the material in government time. Billy Sheahan 3584 Death of W. F. Sheahan [ASSEMBLY] Death of W. F. Sheahan believed that a worker's time belonged to Crown Law Department. After taking a the employer and he warned that this prac- degree at the University of Sydney, he tice was equivalent to theft and that it was admitted to the New South Wales Bar would attract severe penalties. The warn- and quickly established a reputation before ing made front-page news and checked a a series of Royal commissions. It was this racket that was of growing concern to mem- experience which is generally believed to bers of all parties in this Parliament, and have prompted him to enter politics in 1941. particularly to taxpayers. His first portfolio was Minister for Lands from 1947 to 1950. He then served as Min- William Francis Sheahan was born in ister for Transport for two years before Tumut in 1895 and was educated at St becoming Attorney-General between 1952 Patrick's College, Goulburn. In 1914 he and 1956. For the next ten years he was joined the Crown Law Department. Later, Minister for Health. Although the Labor he served in France as a despatch rider with Government was defeated in 1965, he con- the 17th Battalion of the 1st m. He took tinued to put the same amount of energy delight in telling the story of meeting his into his spell on the Opposition benches. brother Jack, who, at 6 feet, towered above Finally, he retired in 1973 having established him. When Jack saw his brother, he said, a reputation as a great politician. "Well. the war must be over if they have to send little blokes like you over he&' Billy Sheahan never once regretted for- saking a legal career and choosing a career I mention his war service for a special in politics. He admitted that as a lawyer he reason. As a result of a mustard gas attack, may have been b&er off financially but not Billy Sheahan had a legacy of physical dis- in terms of rewarding service. It was typical comfort. Although he required long and of him that when he became a Cabinet Min- often painful treatment, he did not com- ister he immediately returned all his briefs plain, nor did he permit his condition to as a counsel at the Bar. He explained that impair his tremendous political career. For a Cabinet Minister could not look after his instance, some time later he was in hospital portfolio, his other parliamentary duties and having a skin graft, when two friends visited his constituents, while continuing in private him. They expected to kdthe patient relax- praotice. Certainly, the people and the Par- ing, but he was the personification of hard liament d New South Wales gained by work. They found a Minister attended by having him as a politician. His contribu- his press secretary and his stenographer, tion to the State will be long remembered. surrounded by urgent files he was dealing He became a legend in his own 1ifHime. with, despite his bandaged features. We on this side of the House join with The effects of his treatment had its hum- his Labor Party colleagues who mourn his orous side. I am sure he would not mind loss and take this opportunity to extend our my repeating the story of the occasion Her heartfelt sympathy to his widow, Mrs Ellen Majesty the Queen arrived in Sydney when Sheahan, to his son, Mr Terry Sheahan, the Hon. J. J. Cahill was Premier. Like M.L.A., who pqetuates a famous name in his colleagues meeting Her Majesty at the this Chamber, and to his daughters and Macquarie Steps, Billy Sheahan was dressed grandchildren. in sober ministerial garb-with one notable exception. Because he had had skin treat- Mr WRAN (Bass Hill), Leader of the ment earlier in the day, he was wearing Opposition 12.491: Today we pay tribute to white socks. Several newspapers chose to a man who served New South Wales to the comment on his informal footwear and drew best of hi considerable ability and capacity. the retort from the offending Minister: "The Williarn Francis Sheahan-Billy Sheahan- fashion reporters think I am sartorially was a man of controversy, a man of com- oblivious". monsense and justice, a man active to the end of his 80 years. Although he was a man So far, I have traced Billy Sheahan's of only small physical stature, he strode career until his service in the first world this State and this Parliament like a giant. war. On his return he resumed with the Billy Sheahan was a reformist and his eight- Sir Eric Wills] Death of W. F. Sheahan 124 FEB.,,19761 Death of W. F. Sheahan 3585 een years as a Minister left an indelible d Burrinjuck, the electorate he served so imprint on the statute book of New South well for so long. The tradition of effe~tive Wales. Few parliamentarians can match service to ithe electorate of Burrinjuck, his record-thirty-two years a member, which Billy Sheahan began in 1941, is now eighteen years a Minister. Billy Sheahan being maintained by his only son, Terry. lived a long and fruitful life. He fought To the present member for Burrinjuck and for the people who elected him, in the to Billy Sheahan's widow, Ellen, and to his same way as he fought for his country in three daughters, I extend my deepest sym- the human holocaust of the trenches of the pathy and the lasting gratitude of members first world war-always with determination of the Australian Labor Party, a party and dedication, and guided by idealism. whose aims and objectives this truly admir- Billy Sheahan often clashed with his able Australian did much to advance. political opponents and not infrequently Mr HEALEY (Davidson) , Minister for with his political allies. It is a measure of Health E2.541: In my position as Minister his tenacity, advocacy and skiU that he for Health I join with the Premier and Trea- usually won. In each of the four portfolios surer and the Leader of the Opposition in which Billy Sheahan held he left his mark this motion of sympathy to the Sheahan and in turn the State benefited. In Lands family. William Francis Sheahan was a pop- he played a large role in the establishment ular Minister for Health in $thisState. Des- of soldier settlement. In Transport he pre- pite many incursions he made into areas sided over a period marked by the lack of of controversy during his time in Parlia- any industrial dispute. As Attorney-General ment, he had many friends in the State of he abolished capital punishment. As Min- New South Wales. Those who were not ister for Health he cast the light of the twen- able to call him a friend at least respeoted tieth century on to the dark ages of mental him for what he was and what he did. He health with the abolition d the Lunacy Act. had many Mends on both sides of the He was a descendant of pioneers and during House and was respected by all members of his lifetime he pioneered much for the State Parliament. He endeared himself to all sec- and the people of the State to whom he was tions of the community, particularly those so dedicated. relating to health care. Mr Sheahan was a It was not dywith legislation that Billy man of great compassion. He would lend a sympathetic ear to those who felt that they Sheahan made giant steps. He did the same had to talk to him. He was a man of great with the issues of his day. Billy Sheahan was the first Australian politician to speak wit, with almost a puckish sense of humour which he kept right throughout his life, both of the futility of the Vietnam war. In this inside and outside this House. He had a Parliament he condemned a war that needed tremendous interest in the health portfolio condemnation. He spoke at a time when that war was lauded as necessary for the and did a great deal for the people of New South Wales. security and safety of this country. Billy Sheahan condemned the futility of the Viet- Billy Sheahan was a man of courage, nam war and history has proved him both physical and moral. The Premier and correct. After his retirement he kept his Treasurer has spoken of his physical cour- interest in the issues of the day. One of his age; his moral courage can be gauged by last forays into print was an attack on the the stand he took in this Parliament on a Governor-General over the dismissal of a number of issues, including the fluoridation democratically elected Prime Minister. Billy Sheahan worked for democracy, the Parlia- of water, to which many people were op- ment and the people. He advocated the posed, and what he did in the field of equality of man and that each man's vote mental health. He was responsible for the should be of equal value. removal of the high walls and other physi- The death of Billy Sheahan is a blow to cal barriers from the psychiatric hospitals all who had the privilege of knowing him of this State. Throughout New South Wales and particularly it is a blow to the people there are many monuments that prove that 225 3586 Death of W. F. Sheahan [ASSEMBLY] Death of W. F. Sheahan Billy Sheahan passed along the way, but I pay this tribute to Billy Sheahan: his I think that it would be the memories in outspokenness on the question of Aus- the hearts of men that he would want us tralia's involvement in Vietnam solidiied to cherish most. On behalf of the many the opposition of the Labor Party to that members of the Health Commission, which conflict. Again in 1966, he stood up in was formerly the Department of Health this House and appealed for an end to that and the Hospitals Commission, I add my war. At that time he said: deepest sympathy and condolences to Mrs I put it to the House that we are subject Sheahan, Terry and the other members of to the laws of morality and we have moral the family. obligations. Our greatest moral obligation is to pursue the paths that bring about peace. Mr FERGUSON (Merrylands), Deputy A former Premier and Treasurer, Sir Rob- Leader of the Opposition [2.56]: On Satur- ert Askin, paid high tribute to our late day, 27th December last, Billy Sheahan colleague when after Billy Sheahan's re- died. But he will be remembered long after tirement he said in this House: every one of us here today is dead and Tnough some of us lost points in debating buried. Billy Sheahan has an assured place a matter with Billy Sheahan, none of us ever in the history of this State and the nation. lost our respect for him as a man and as a He has been variously described as con- parliamentarian. troversial, hard-hitting and colourful. He I believe that summed up the feeling of all once said of these descriptions: "I have members towards the outstanding former been described as testy, irritable and con- member for Burrinjuck. troversial-but thank God no one has said I was peculiar." In all his years in politics Billy Sheahan never dodged a fight.-1n fact he-was prob- As the Premier and Treasurer has said, ably at his best in the midst of a good Billy Sheahan was first elected to this political fight-and he had many during his House as the member for Yass on 10th eighteen years as a Minister. I think we May, 1941, and he served here until 1973. would all agree that the way to fill this He held four portfolios in Labor govern- Chamber was for Billy Sheahan to take part ments-Lands, Transport, Attorney-Gen- in a debate here. He was a man who attract- era1 and Health. Asked to name his greatest ed controversy. In 1964 he offered to resign achievement, Billy Sheahan always pointed from Parliament and contest the by-election to the repeal of the mid-Victorian Lunacy against the editor of the Sunday Mirror. Act and the removal of the stigma associated That newspaper had conducted a vicious with mental illness, but I would add two campaign against him over the release of others: the abolition of capital punishment patients from psychiatric hospitals. He during his term as Attorney-General and claimed the newspaper implied that he had his opposition to Australia's involvement been responsible for the release of patients in the Vietnam war. who had later committed acts of violence In October, 1964, Billy Sheahan was one when in fact none of the cases had ever of the first Australian politicians to state been referred to him. The newspaper editor publicly his opposition to Australia's in- was saved from a humiliating defeat when volvement in that war. He urged that Aus- Cabinet instructed Billy Sheahan not to tralians should pursue all means of bring- resign. He earned the respect and adrnira- ing about peace and an end to our involve- tion of public servants at all levels, but he ment in Vietnam. In those days it took a also struck fear into the heart of the petty man of great courage to voice opposition bureaucrat. to the Vietnam war. Anyone who supported Billy Sheahan never stopped fighting for peace then was branded a communist or a the things in which he believed. An example fellow-traveller. But this did not deter Billy of that was his disgust at the sacking of Sheahan. He saw it as his duty to fight for the Whitlam Government by the Govemor- peace in Vietnam, and his voice command- General. Honourable members now know ed respect. that Billy Sheahan was then gravely ill, but Death of W. F. Sheahan [24 FEB.,19761 Death of W.F. Sheahan 3587 he spent a great deal of his remaining time Sheahan did a wonderful job for the people on this earth in supporting the right of the of this State. I join in the sentiments ex- democratically elected Government to serve pressed to his widow and to the other mem- its full term of office. Billv Sheahan had bers of his farnilv. politics in his blood. He joined the Labor Party as a young man. As the Premier and Mr RENSHAW (Castlereagh) [3.4]: I Treasurer said, in 1915 he enlisted in the desire to be associated with the Preanier and Treasurer, the Leader of the Opposition and first AIF and served overseas until the end of that war. In 1939 Billy Sheahan played a other honourzble members who have spoken leading role in achieving unity between the on this motion of condolence. I endorse Chifley-Heffron Party and the Lang Labor completely the sentiments they have ex- Party. Billy Sheahan was elected to this pressed. It would be idle for me-and I am sure that the late Billy Sheahan would not House two years later. He served his coun- want me to do it-to delay unduly the urgent try well in war; in peace he served his elec- torate and his State with great distinction business of the House. However, I should and dedication. like to make a few remarks. Billy Sheahan loved controversy. He had the abilitv to ab- Few men have made such an impact on sorb legislation rapidly and he had a fantas- the political life of this State as did William tic memory. I first recall him as a member Francis Sheahan. He will be sadly missed by of the Labor Party before the unity confer- everyone who knew him, particularly those ence of 1939, of which the Deputy Leader who worked with him during his thirty-two of the Opposition spoke earlier. Billy years as a member. I had the honour to Sheahan was one of the mediators at that represent the Parliamentary Labor Party conference. After hearing him in this House at Billy Sheahan's funeral at Jugiong. I shall one could scarcely imagine him in the role never forget the occasion. As many people of a mediator. He always wanted to be the as possible crowded into the small Catholic centre of controversy and invariably he ex- church and almost 1 000 people assembled pressed his opinions most forcibly. outside it to pay their last tribute to their local member and friend. I am sure that his Other members have cited much of the thousands of friends would wish to be as- legislation that was introduced during Billy sociated with this motion of condolence to Sheahan's membership of this House. He his family-his widow, Mrs Sheahan, his was an ideal subject for the press, radio m, Terry, and his daughters, and his sis- and other news media. Controversy sur- rounded him, whether it related to national ters, Nell and Margaret. matters or subjects being debated in this Mr WADDY (Kirribilli) [3.3]: As a for- House. Though Billy Sheahan was always mer Minister for Health, I should like to forceful in expression, his greatest friends join in the sentiments that have been ex- were often his greatest opponents. However, pressed about the late Billy Sheahan. I he did not pursue arguments outside the learnt at first hand the impact that Billy Chamber; there he would speak placidly Sheahan had on the health portfolio. My with those who held opposite views and he mind goes back a long way to the time would take matters a little further with those when I first entered this House. Mr Sheahan from whom he might have taken a few chips was then Minister for Health. I raised a in the Chamber. problem that was concerning a group of paraplegics. I received a sound lesson in By Bill Sheahan's resignation a couple of politics across the table from Billy Sheahan years ago this House lost, and by his death when I learnt subsequently that he had pre- now the State has lost, a champion for the rights for which he fought and vailed upon his Government to contribute in which he believed. When people put proposals or f10,000 to the project I had mentioned. At issues before Bill Sheahan with which he that time this was no small sum. Billy did not agree he let them know the position Sheahan was a kind man. As well, he was just as forcefully as he let this House know a great administrator who made his mark, when he supported them. His true worth in particularly in the health portfolio. Billy his electorate was exemplified by the fact 3588 Death of W. F. Sheahan [ASSEMBLY] 3ealh of W. F. Sheahan

that when the time came for those who timidly on the door and when I poked my wished to pay tribute to come forward, there head into his office he looked up from his was a gathering of representatives from all desk and said, "Come in, young fellow; I political parties who were genuinely sad- will bet that you have come to talk to me dened by the passing of a great Australian about the Inverell hospital." He was cor- and a great State parliamentarian. rect. He always showed me great courtesy and assistance during the years we spent For many years I had the privilege of together in Parliament. I wish to associate working with Bill Sheahan. I saw him on my wife also with this condolence motion. all the occasions on which I was associated On a number of visits to my electorate Mr with the various aspects of government, par- Sheahan extended to her the same courtesy ticularly the period when I was Treasurer. and kindness as he gave me. To Mrs I assure the House that for those six years Sheahan and the members of her family, Bill Sheahan considered there was only one and particularly to the honourable member department of state; it was not education or for Burrinjuck, I offer sympathy. I pay a sin- any of the other departments that were ser- cere tribute to a great statesman and par- viced by state revenue-it was the Depart- liamentarian. ment of Health, which he contended should receive every assistance possible. No mat- Mr MALLAM (Campbelltown) [3.9]: I ter how much that department received he too wish to be associated with the motion wanted more for it---of course, for good of sympathy to the family of the late Wil- and valid reasons. He never stopped letting liam Francis Sheahan. I first met Bill Shea- one know his views. When one is involved han when he was a well-known member of with people of such unblemished character the Labor Party back in the depression and high calibre one feels their loss in this years when times were hard. The comments House. I join with the Premier and Trea- that have been made about him today make surer, the Leader of the Opposition and me proud to have known him. He was other honourable members in conveying the always a great patriot and a man full of sympathy of my wife and myself to the compassion. He firmly believed in living in widow and family in their sad bereavement. the present century, not the preceding one, as most parliamentarians do. I happened to Mr BRUXNER (Tenterfield), Minister be a member of the Department of Trans- for Transport and Minister for Highways port at the time when Bill Sheahan was [3.7]: I should like to pay a personal tribute Minister for Transport. He tried to bring to our late colleague Mr Sheahan. A long that department into the present century. and close association existed between him, However, politicians and others did not other members of my family and myself. understand his attitude and they tried to I remember with gratitude his kind words keep the department in the last century. One during a condolence motion in this House difficulty he faced was to fight the power of following the death of my father. Mr the motor lobbies and the press. Unfor- Sheahan spoke with great feeling on that tunately some of his policies were not car- day. I know that on this occasion I can ried out. If they had been transport would speak for my brother. During Mr Sheahan's not have the present deficit of hundreds of occupancy of the portfolio of Attorney- millions of dollars. We do not always get General he selected and nominated my members of the calibre of Bill Sheahan. brother for appointment- - to the District Court bench. My leader and deputy leader mentioned Bill ~heahan'sattitude to the Vietnam war. I remember that it was from Mr He was a great patriot and fighter and what Sheahan that I first sought assistance from him more than anything else was that a Minister when I came to this House as a young and nervous new member. This after- young Australianswere being sent noon I have been recalling that occasion. as merceneries. He never believed that that I had never called at a Minister's office should happen. He said that if war had prior to the afternoon when I went to the been declared he wodd not have minded office of Bill Sheahan. I knocked somewhat but for young Australians to go there as Death of W.F. Sheahan 124 FEB., 19761 Death of W. F. Sheahan 3589 merceneries, sullying the name of Australia his ready concession, after I had been cam- in a foreign country, cut him to the quick. paigning for the repeal of the Lunacy Act Bill Sheahan was mast disturbed at the of 1898, of the fact that something should actions of the Governor-General. I recall be done. Though all the things that possibly Bill telling me in the lobby his story of were wanted or were asked for were not giving up his seat in the itrain to the Chief able to be implemented, it has been said Justice who was coming to Sydney, conniv- here often, and again this afternoon, that ing to sack a former Premier, Jack Lang. Bill Sheahan will be well remembered for Bill Sheahan was saying that it was a blow his contribution to the mental health ser- to democracy and he felt (that the actions of vices of this State. Perhaps I could make the Governor-General in November were my tribute succinct in halting verse and another blow to democracy. Bill firmly be- say this: lieved that no elected government should be Goodbye Billy Sheahan, rest in peace. sacked. One can understand his viewpoint We always will remember your broad smile, as a fighter and patriot and why he felt so Your talents and your mind so versatile; disturbed at what was going on in this cen- And the straight bat you carried to the crease. tury when the laws and regulations of the Your dual purpose: firstly to police previous century were attempted to be used. Injustice which, like fungus, would defile Our heritage; and then to raise a pile Bill Sheahan was a much misunderstood Of positive achievements on your lease. man. He was greatly respected for his belief Your lease of life-adventurous and long. in the Labor Party philosophy as the hope You charmed your way,-. and worked without a pause, of the world. My deputy leader referred You loved sincerity and hated wrong to the unity conference. I might point out And gladly fostered any worthy cause. that if it had not been for Bill Sheahan and Your Sheahan's chain of mateship has no ends, the late Arthur Calwell, Labor in this State All those who ever knew you are your friends. would have been divided and we should have been at considerable disadvantage. The Mr HILLS (Phillip) l3.151: Might I for a unity conference enabled John Curtin to few moments join with those who have take over as Prime Minister for the war already spoken-the Premier and Treasurer, years and made the way for the McKell the Leader of the Opposition and others- Government in this State but that unity in the eulogy to our late colleague, Bill Sheahan. It has been said that when he would never have come about had it not spoke in this Parliament the House stilled been for that great fighter and patriot, Bill to listen to what he had to say. It was not Sheahan. One could talk for hours about only the subject-matter of what he had to the man. I have had hi help, assistance and guidance over forty years. This Parliament say that attracted attention; it was the way has been graced by his membership and I in which he said it. He had a beautiful command of the English language which all am proud to have been able to serve with a man who believed in this great institution. of us cherished. He was not a man who I want to be associated with the motion of flaunted his knowledge in his use of the English language but one who used it in a sympathy to his hise who stuck with Bill beautiful way. Sheahan over the years. Mrs Sheahan and her son and daughters were a great help to Like the honourable member for Castle- Bill, who was a wonderful family man, a reagh I served with Bill Sheahan in the wonderful Australian and a great parlia- Cabinet of this State. Bill had a great capa- mentarian. city for work and an incisive mind. He was Mr DARBY (Manly) [3.13]: Of all the concerned not only with matters of his own many Ministers with whom I have had to portfolio at the be-and he had four of deal none has been more approachable or them, as has already been referred to-but more ready to discuss a problem than the also all other matters that were tot come late Bill Sheahan. I watched his career from before the Parliament. Any Minister who the time he &st became a Minister of the had a Cabinet minute to present to the Gov- Crown and wish to remind the House of mment of the day had to be sure d his 3590 Death of W. F. Sheahan [ASSEMBLY] Death of W. F. Sheahan facts and to have a wide knowledge of the not suitable for soldier settlement. I was matter with which he was dealing. Woe- quite a young man at the time and I recall betide him if he did not; Bill Sheahan would that the Minister listened intently and gave be on him like a ton of bricks. an undertaking that he would come to Marulan to have a look at the settlers and Our colleague's opposition to the Vietnam the land concerned. war has already been referred to and ref- erence was made to the thought that be- The Minister-Billy Sheahan-sat down cause of his attitude it might have been unobtrusively with us one day and dis- inferred that he had communist leanings. cussed the possibilities of the country. He None of us would have thought that for a explained to us that he had the proclama- moment. Indeed, the very opposite was tion in his bag, and that it was about to demonstrated in the Parliament at the drop be lifted. He assured us that the proclama- of a hat because, when Russia invaded tion would not be lifted. That was on the Hungary, Bill Sheahan was the Grst to stand Friday afternoon. On the following Thurs- on his feet and move a motion deploring day I received a phone message to the Russia's action. Bill had a wonderful capa- effect that he had weighed the possibilities city to do things like that. His moticm re- of the land and had made a decision in ceived the unanimous support of this Parlia- the interest of the settlers. I must say his ment. He demonstrated how quick he was judgrnent was absolutely correct, because to realize that injustice was being done in every one of those holdings has proved those circumstances and he was able to cap- successful for the occupants. ture the attention of this Parliament and re- ceive the unanimous support of this House On behalf of my wife and family, and to his motion condemning the Russian in- for myself, I pay tribute to the late W. F. trusion into Hungary. Sheahan, who was a great parliamentarian and a most diligent Minister. He was one Like others, my wife and I join in thin of the first people to meet me when I came motion of condolence to Nell Sheahan and to this place, and he encouraged me to members of her family. Over the years it play my part as a member of the Parlia- has been our great pleasure to be associated ment. I extend to Terry, his son and a with them in this Parliament and at all sorts member of this Parliament, and to other of funotions, private and official. We have members of the family my own family's been personally associated as well. Our sympathy in their sad loss. hearts go out to Nell Sheahan and the mem- Mr BARRACLOUGH (Bligh) [3.22]: I bers of the family because we know how wish to be associated with the Premier and they cherished Bill. They know how the other members of the House in this motion State of New South Wales and the members of sympathy to the family of Mr W. F. of this Parliament appreciated the great work carried on by her husband and their Sheahan. I shared an interest with Billy father. Sheahan that was not shared with him by any other member. Our birthday was on Mr BREWER (Goulburn) C3.181: I the same day, 3rd September. Except for should like to pay my personal tribute to the 1975, when I received a nice little note Hon. W. F. Sheahan. I pay my tribute on from him, in the eight years that I have behalf of many thousands of soldier settlers been in this place we always had a drink in this State for the great work Bill Sheahan together on our birthday. I remember Billy did as Minister for Lands from 1946 on- Sheahan's wonderful sense of humour. In wards. I vividly remember the time when I the times I spent with him in the parlia- went to him as an ordinary constituent of mentary refreshment room, I recall a story the member for Goulburn, Laurie Tully, that he told about the opening of a country seeking a soldier's block on a promotion hospital. After five previous speakers had estate. Bill Sheahan's advisers from the De- described the size of the hospital and talked partment of Lands and the Department of about the number of beds and the num- ~~riculturehad advised that the estate was ber of meals that would be served, the Death of W. F. Sheafzan [24 FEB., 19761 Death of A. G. Enticknap 3591 chairman of the hospital board said, "Mr to his dedicated services to the people of Sheahan will now give his address." As he this State and his loyalty to the Australian told the story, Mr Sheahan stood up and Labor Party. It is also a glowing tribute to said, "My address is Parliament House, his wife, who stood with him for so many Sydney." We all remember him as a man years. On her behalf and on behalf of my of great courage. My wife and I extend to sisters and other members of the family, I Mrs Sheahan, Terry Sheahan and the other thank honourable members for their kind members of the family our condolences in remarks in this debate, and I thank the Gov- the loss they have sustained by the passing ernment for granting my father the honour of this great Australian. of not one but two State funerals. Mr SHEAHAN (Burrinjuck) r3.251: I I thank the Deputy Leader of the Oppo- think the greatest tribute paid to William sition for doing us the honour of being a Francis Sheahan was that spoken of by the pallbearer at the Jugiong funeral, and the Deputy Leader of the Opposition, when he honourable member for Castlereagh for per- referred to the people of the Burrinjuck forming the same task at North Sydney, electorate and others at the ceremony at the as a representative of the Australian Labor small Catholic church at Jugiong. We in the Party, and also for his many gestures of family will not forget the sight of all those friendship to my mother. I thank all the people standing on both sides of the high- public servants, members of organizations way and all the way up the hill as we came and other people who expressed their sym- out of the church through a police guard of pathy and praised my father. We thank honour. But let it not be thought that I seek them for that. The people of his electorate to derogate from the tributes paid to him -indeed the State-and the Australian verbally, both in this Chamber and out- Labor Party may well say, "Well done, good side it. For the past twenty-seven months or and faithful servant, rest in peace." so I have felt a great deal of pride in fol- Members and officers of the House stand- lowing him into this place, and it gives me ing in their places, great comfort today to hear members of his Motion agreed to. beloved Legislative Assembly paying their final tributes to him. DEATH OF THE HONOURABLE The Premier and Treasurer, and my own AMBROSE GEORGE ENTICKNAP, A FORMER MINISTER OF THE CROWN parliamentary leader and deputy leader along with other members and Ministers, Sir ERIC WILLIS (Earlwood), Premier including the Minister for Transport, have and Treasurer [3.28]: I move: paid tribute to him. I make special mention That this House extends to Mrs Enticknap of the Minister for Transport because it was the deep sympathy of Members of the Legis- lative Assembly in the loss sustained by the to him that I as a young member of death of the Honourable Ambrose George Parliament took my first deputation. I often Enticknap, a former Minister of the Crown. remember the conversation we had at that It is with deep regret that I formally in- time. He got $2 million for the Inverell form the House of the death of Mr A. G. district hospital when he went, and unfor- Enticknap, who was a member of this tunately I got nothing for the Harden Co- House from 1941 until 1965 and held a operative when I went. number of ministerial portfolios. Mr I thank all members who have spoken Enticknap was accorded a State funeral. On on this motion, and also all the other people behalf of my Government, I take this op- outside this Parliament, including former portunity to convey to Mrs Enticknap and members of Parliament, who have joined in family the condolences of members on this paying their last respects to my father. Most side of the House. As member for Murnun- of the tributes to him were paid by men bidgee in this Parliament for twenty-four and women who knew him better than and years, Mr Enticknap was held in high esteem longer than I did. I should be remiss if I by all who served with him. He held a did not add to the remarks of the Premier nlmb~,rof portfolios between 1952 and and my colleagues on this side of the House. 1965 including Agriculture, Conservation Any tribute to my late father is a tribute and Transport. During this 13-year period, 3592 Death of A. G. Enticknap [ASSEMBLY] Death of A. G. Enticknap

Mr Enticknap played an important part in Irrigation Area and the Coleambally Imga- the Government of the day. He served the tion Area will always be indebted to George people in his electorate and throughout Enticknap. After extending the MIA, he re- New South Wales with great distinction. cognized that another irrigation area was He served his party with equal distinction necessary, and implemented the Coleambally as chainman of the State Parliamentary scheme. He assured the success of both Labor Party for a number of years. irrigation areas by making provision for adequate supplies, and using them to the Ambrose George Enticknap was born in best advantage. His foresight in this and Balaclava, Victoria, in 1894. At the age of other actions as Minister for Conservation 7 he lost a leg as a result of osteomyelitis, won him lasting respect, particularly among but never allowed this handicap to interfere the people he had lived and worked with- with the full and active life he was to lead. people whose basic needs he appreciated After moving to New South Wales, he en- and whose aspirations he shared. tered local government in 1928 as a coun- cillor of the Willimbong-now Leeton- Outside his hectic parliamentary career, shire and ten years later became its presi- George Enticknap devoted his spare time to dent. Meanwhile, he had gone into business fishing, but his consuming interest was prob- as a fruitgrower in the Murrumbidgee ably lesser known. With the same dedica- Irrigation Area and later bought a farm tion and thoroughness he brought to his with a partner. George Enticknap be- political life, he spent countless hours mak- came chairman of the Leeton Co-operative ing toys in the workshop behiid his Hurst- Cannery Limited in 1934, a position he held ville home. On retiring from this House and for nearly twenty years. Additionally, he completing a world trip, he took up his was a member of the advisory committee hobby full-time, bringing happiness to for the Cmonwealth Research Station at thousands of children across Australia. It is Griffith. As an indication of the high regard a measure of his generous nature that the in which he was held by the fruitgrowing financial rewards he derived were imrnedi- fraternity, he was appointed to the executive ately donated to charity. Also in his work- of the various growers' groups including shop, Mr Enticknap continued his lifetime the N.S.W. Citrus Growers, the N.S.W. of service to the community by mending Apple and Pear Growers Association and shoes for elderly people. the Murmbidgee Irrigation Area Co- operative. I have outlined some of the achievements of Geoqe Enticknap and have mentioned His parliamentary career began in 194 1 his invaluable role in the history of this when he won the seat of Mumbidgee Parliament. No doubt other honourable standing as an independent after a dispute members will wish to pay their own tributes over the choice of a Labor candidate. In and speak to the motion. It remains for me 1953, George Enticknap was appointed Min- to extend to Mrs Enticknap and family the ister assisting the Premier. He was ap- sympathy of honourable members on this pointed Minister for Conservation later in side of the House. 1953, a portfolio he held until 1956 when he became Minister for Transport, a post Mr FERGUSON (Merrylands), Deputy he held until 1962. He held the Agriculture Leader of the Opposition [3.31]: I wish to and Conservation portfolio from 1962 until join the Premier and Treasurer in mourn- retiring from Parliament three years later. ing the loss of our friend and colleague, During his twenty-four years in this House, Ambrose George Enticknap, and extending he made a significant contribution to the to his widow our sincere and deep sympathy administration of this State. on his passing. George Enticknap repre- sented the Mumumbidgee electorate from Possibly the Conservation post was the one in wh

give a capital cash value to those quotas? If in fact what happened was a deliberate If so, what value will be attached to such breach of the fire regulations it was indeed quotas and will the Minister make public a a foolish act, as anybody involved in show complete list of quota holders? If the Min- business should know. Other people con- ister will not make public this list, will he nected with show business in Sydney, includ- please explain why not? ing radio personalities John Laws and Bob Rogers, have commented most unfavourably Mr COWAN: The answer to the hon- on Mr Diamond's behaviour. From conver- ourable member's question is no. sations with the manager of the Hordern Pavilion and the promoters of Mr Diamond HORDERN PAVILION it seems quite definite that steps have been Mr ROZZOLI: My question without taken to ensure that these most important notice is directed to the Chief Secretary. Is regulations, insisted upon by the fire brigade the Minister aware of a smoking incident at a time when we are all conscious of fire which occurred at a recent performance by danger, should not be breached again. a Mr Neil Diamond in the Hordern Pavi- lion? Is the removal of no smoking signs ROYAL BLIND SOCIETY in halls such as the Hordern Pavilion a Mr BOOTH: My question without notice breach of the provisions of the fire regula- is directed to the Premier and Treasurer. tions? Is any action envisaged as a result Last week, in an attempt to divert public of this incident? attention away from the Government's Mr COLEMAN: I am aware of an inci- treatment of ithe deaf and blind, did the dent which was widely reported in the press Premier and Treasurer issue a statement involving Mr Neil Diamond, an American which has been described by the general singer, at the Hordern Pavilion last night. manager of the Royal Blind Society as mis- What occurred was a breach of regulation leading and damaging to the society's public 79 made under the Theatres and Public appeal for an amount of at least $600,000 Halls Act. Without any prompting from me, which is needed to keep the society going? officers of my department contacted the Is it not a fact that each of the States manager of the Hordern Pavilion and in- finance the education of deaf and blind vited his attention to the appropriate regu- children as well as provide expenditure for lations and the apparent breach of them. various travel concessions and other ser- The manager, Mr Fryer, acknowledged that vices, but that whereas New South Wales there had been a breach of regulations. He grants an additional amount of only $15,000 was obviously aware of the requirements annually, Victoria grants an additional under the regulations and he said that the $1,157,500, South Australia $320,000 and fire brigade had been insistent upon com- even Tasmania $75,000? In view of the pliance with the regulations. Mr Fryer damage done to the society's appeal for advised my departmental officers this morn- funds by the Premier's statement, described ing that he intended to contact the pro- as I have said earlier as misleading, will he moters of !the performer Mr Neil Diamond. now correct the impression he gave and This afternoon I have received advice that apologize to the society for impeding its the promoters themselves were dismayed at efforts in its humanitarian cause? Mr Diamond's behaviour and action is being taken to prevent a recurrence. Mr SPEAKER: Order! I rule that question out of order on the basis of the argument To say the least, this action on the face of it was very foolish. One might charitably contained in it, its length and its general think that perhaps Mr Diamond took the prolixity. notices to be anti-smoking propaganda signs of a kind that are so prominent in American TICK QUARANTINE life, and that he was simply expressing his Mr SINGLETON: I wish to ask the Min- hostility to that sort of propaganda. That is a ister fm Agriculture and Minister for Water charitable interpretation of what happened. Resources a question without notice. Has Questions without Notice [24 FEB., 19761 Questions without Notice 3597 concern been expressed by Werent sec- principally upon issues involving lthe milk tions of the cattle industry about a possible industry. Even at that time the honourable relaxation of the tick quarantine regulations? member was keen to reduce the price of Does the Minister agree that the Govern- milk. I think there is an implication in the ment should take every possible aotion to question that farmers are receiving too great keep the cattle tick under control? Will he a return for their milk. Over many years give an assurance that the strictest tick quar- New South Wales has had a certain formula antine regulations will continue to be en- (relating to the price of milk and dk forced in the North Coast cattle tick area? products. If something wrong was done in earlier days in ithe determination of the Mr COWAN: I appreciate the fact that prices of milk and milk products, it is the honourable member for Clarence and history as far back as the setting up of the other people in the northern part of the old milk board by the former Labor govern- State are most concerned about tick eradica- ment. Over many years it was a Labor tion. Any toning down of the tick eradica- government lthat protected dairymen within tion system that has occurred has been as a this State. This Government has inherited result of a reduction in funds provided by (the situation that now exists. Honourable the Australian Government. During Labor's members and the public must appreciate term of office in Canberra funds for tick that today in the milk industry there is a eradication were completely eliminated. I service from the cow to the table. There know that people are concerned that the is orderly marketing involvi~g a system previous eradication scheme should con- whereby the consumer gets the best quality tinue. The north of the State is an area product d this kid available anywhere which carries a lot of stock: it is a dairy, throughout Australia. People who denigrate grazing and breeding area, supplying cattle the dairy industry and endeavour to con- to every section of the State. Although vince farmers that they should sell milk for there has been a toning down of the tick a lower return than they now receive are out quarantine regulations, I assure the hon- to kill the orderly marketing system that has ourable member that from the Government's been established in this State. point of view everything will be done to continue the scheme. I for one, as Minister for Agriculture, will not be assooiated with any move that could MILK PRICE downgrade the quality of our dairy products and reduce the return to the farmer. I have Mr EINFELD: I ask the Minister for seen repopts of statements that have been Agriculture and Minister for Water Re- made by the Leader of the Opposition and I sources a question without notice. Is the have heard appeals made by other members retail price of milk in New South Wales at of his party that we can sell cheaper milk. I least 20 per cent dearer than in any other have even heard people try to induce the State? Have the Minister's colleagues, the dairy industry in Victoria to enter into the honourable member for Raleigh and the markat here in New South Wales. In 1970 honourable member for Lismore, as well as this Government introduced the Dairy In- a vice-president of the Dairy Farmers Asso- dustry Authority Act which was opposed by ciation, blamed the price as the reason for a the Labor Party. drop in milk consumption? What steps, if any, is the Government planning to take to Mr RENSHAW: It was not opposed on that bring the price of milk in New South Wales ground. down to a reasonable level which consumers can afford? Mr COWAN: It was opposed by the Labor Party. The Dairy Industry Authority Mr COWAN: Listening to the question Act was brought in with a view to giving posed by the honourable member for every dairyfarmer in New South Wales the Waverley, my mind goes back to November, opportunity of supplying the liquid milk 1965, when both of us were elected to this market of this Sltate and it would have been Parliament following an election fought the answer to the problem except for the 3598 Questions without Notice [ASSEMBLY] Questions without Notice fact that the former Labor Government in National Disaster Planning, General Stret- Canberra withdrew the free milk scheme to ton, that we should be planning for a once- schools. These are the things of which hon- in-200-years disaster? Will the Minister ask ourable members should be reminded. also that his colleague particularly instruct the planners to ensure that adequate land Both the Government and I have a full and buffer zones for future aviation facilities appreciation of the problems facing the are retained against the possible need for dairy industry in this State. We want con- substantial emergency movement by air of sumers in Sydney and in every other part of large segments of the population? the State to receive a product at a price that at least covers the cost of production on the Mr PUNCH: I shall be happy to report farm and allows the dairyfarmer a small to the Minister for Planning and Environ- surpIus after paying all the costs of produc- ment the question asked by the honourable tion. The dairyfarmer receives a little over member for Wakehurst and to reply to the 50 per cent of the retail price of his pro- honourable member and the House as soon duct. Honourable members can be assured as possible. that all the matters raised by the honourable member for Waverley are being kept in MILK QUOTAS mind. Mr GORDON: My question without notice is directed to the Minister for Agri- BUILDING WORKERS INDUSTRIAL culture and Minister for Water Resources. I UNION ask the Minister whether when he replied Mr WEBSTER: My question without No, when asked whether he had a milk notice is directed to the Minister for quota, he seriously informed the House that Revenue and Assistant Treasurer represent- he and the other Ministers mentioned at ing in this House the Minister for Labour that time did not have a quota. Is the and Industry. Is it a fact that officials of Minister's quota in fact 130 gallons a day the Building Workers Industrial Union have and has one Minister an interest in a quota imposed hes and other alleged costs on a of 1 200 gallons a day? building industry employer? If so, is the Building Workers Industrial Union acting Mr COWAN: Yes, my quota is 130 gal- lons a day. I have been milking cows since within the accepted framework of concilia- I was seven years of age. Nobody has ever tion and arbitration or is it being a law given me property, cows or a quota; I have unto itself? earned them and I am certainly not ashamed Mr SHEAHAN:On a point of order. I of what I have achieved. submit that the question seeks an opinion- and a legal opinion at that-and therefore [Interruption] is out of order. Mr SPEAKER: Order! I must ask for reasonable silence while the Minister replies. Mr SPEAKER: Order! I uphold the point of order. Mr COWAN: When I was appointed Minister for Agriculture and Minister for SYDNEY REGION OUTLINE PLAN Water Resources, members of the Opposi- Mr VINEY: My question without notice tion were most vocal indeed. They said that is directed to the Deputy Premier, Minister anybody who is engaged within the industry for Public Works and Minister for Ports should not be the Minister for that industry. representing in this House the Minister for Members of the Opposition ought to have a Planning and Environment. Is a review of look at themselves. the Sydney region outline plan currently in [Interruption] progress? If so, will the Minister ask his ministerial colleague to ensure that the plan- Mr SPEAKER: Order! I call the honourable ners heed the advice of the Director of member for Murmmbidgee to order. Questions without Notice 124 FEB., 19761 Questioizs without Notice 3599

Mr COWAN: What do Opposition mm- dairymen have no wish to invade the mar- bers want? Do they want as Minister for kets of this State. The important factor Agriculture a chemist, a lawyer, a doctor or about marketing, wherever it is, is that it a wharflabourer? I assure the honourable should be orderly. I should not like to see member for Murrumbidgee that even in his any person in any other State make a state- own area there has never been any objection ment that affected our markets in this State. to me; in fact some people close to his elec- A proposition has been made by the Dairy torate said only the other night how pleased Farmers Corporation that there should be an they were that I had been appointed Minis- equalization scheme throughout Australia. ter for Agriculture. They know that I know This State would be keen to look at that the industry. proposition and to see what we can do generally to assist dairy farmers. New South [Interruption] Wales is (making a most valuable contribu- tion to Victoria and all the other States of Mr SPEAKER: Order! I am not prepared the Commonwealth in respect of equaliza- to tolerate this level of interjection during tion. Last year this State bought about the Minister's reply. The Minister must be 19 000 tonnes of butter and 4 500 tonnes of heard in reasonable silence. cheese from Victoria. I assure the House [Interruption] that we will be maintaining an orderly mar- keting scheme in this State. Mr SPEAKER: Order! I call the Leader of the Opposition to order. SUPERPHOSPHATE BOUNTY Mr COWAN: I am not at all concerned Mr JACKSON: I ask the Minister for about the quota held by any other honour- Agriculture and Minister for Water Re- able member on either the Government or sources whether it is a fact that the Fraser the Opposition side of this House. federal Government has announced the re- storation of the superphosphate bounty at a VICTORIAN DAIRY INDUSTRY cost of $28 million to the Australian tax- payers and at the same time has deprived Mr BOYD: I ask the Minister for Agri- all persons who receive social service bene- culture and Minister for Water Resources fits of the sum of $29 million. Was the whether he is aware of statements attributed Prime Minister himself one of the main to the Minister for Agriculture in Victoria beneficiaries of this 'bounty in Victoria? with respect to the transportation of milk If these are facts, will the Minister ask his interstate. Have these statements been re- federal colleague, the Minister for Primary futed by the dairy industry organizations in Industry, to provide details of all members Victoria? of the New South Wales Parliament who Mr COWAN: I am pleased to be asked will benefit from the re-introduction of the so many questions today; it gives me some superphosphate bounty? practice. I have seen a report of a statement made by my counterpart in Victoria. I can- Mr COWAN: The important factor here not vouch that the report is correct. It is is that the Opposition recognizes that the important to appreciate that the Victorian superphosphate bounty has been restored. Minister is free to make any statement he The loss of the bounty, which was taken wishes. I suppose that if I were to make a away some years ago by a Labor Govern- similar statement here I would be castigated ment, boosted the cost of production within by the dairy industry. Since that statement the State. Opposition members and their was made I have seen a press report to the federal colleagues have no respect for the effect that what the Victorian Minister said man on the land. The type of questions that on that occasion has been contradicted by have been addressed to me by Opposition the secretary of the dairy farmers associa- members today fortifies my personal opinion tion in Victoria who has said that Victorian that they have no respect for agriculture. 3600 Questions without Notice [ASSEMBLY1 Questions without Notice

BUILDING WORKERS INDUSTRIAL Mr BRUXNER: I am not aware how UNION many men are on strike at the present time Mr WEBSTER: I address my question in the Wollongong area. If 300 employees of the Department of Main Roads are on without notice to the Minister for Revenue strike and if roads are in a condition that and Assistant Treasurer representing in this requires work to be carried out, my advice House the Minister for Labour and In- to the men on strike is to return to work dustry. Is it a fact that officials of the Build- and to do something to fix the roads. I am ing Workers Industrial Union have imposed surprised that the honourable member for fines and alleged costs on a building in- Corrimal should raise this question in the dustry employer? If that is so, is it con- House. The week I took over my new port- sistent with the terms of the Conciliation folio I discussed with my colleague the and Arbitration Act? Minister for Revenue and Assistant Treas- Mr F. J. WALKER: On a point of order. urer the appointments he had undertaken I take the same point of order as was taken prior to the change of ministries. One ap- by the honourable member for Burrinjuck. pointment that he had made verbally with the honourable member for Wollongong [Interruption] was that he would receive that honourable Mr SPEAKER: Order! I call the honour- member in company with five of his con- able member for Hurstville to order. stituents.

Mr F. J. WALKER: The point of order is Mr L. B. KELLY:And the honourable that the standing orders deny a member member for Corrimal. a right to seek legal opinion. TO state Mr SPEAKER: Order! I have intimated whether something is consistent with an to the House on a number of occasiolns-- Act is to give a legal opinion. Though the and now I direct my remarks specifically honourable member has valiantly tried to re- to the honourable member for Corrimal- cast the question, it is still precisely the that I regard it as grossly disorderly to ask same question and seeks precisely the same a question and to continually interrupt information. during the reply. If that course of conduct persists, I will deal with it severely. Mr SPEAKER: Order! I uphold the point of order. Mr BRUXNER: The former Minister for Transport and Minister for Highways RETRENCHMENTS IN THE had agreed to receive the honourable mem- DEPARTMENT OF MAIN ROADS ber for Wollongong in company with five Mr L. B. KELLY: I address my ques- of his constituents to discuss some proposed tion without notice to the Minister for retrenchments of Department of Main Transport and Minister for Highways. Roads staff in the Bellambi division. These Have 300 men employed by the Depart- retrenchments had been made necessary be- ment of Main Roads in the Wollongong cause the work on which the men had been area been on strike for over three weeks? employed was completed. I had not perused Is the Minister aware of rapid deterioration the file relating to this matter at the time of the surfaces of main roads in the Wol- I contacted the honourable member for longong area? Wi he as a matter of Wollongong, for whom I have a great res- urgency again investigate the matter and pect, and I said to him, "Do you still wish reverse the decision he announced about to continue with the deputation that you three weeks ago to a deputation? Was the had arranged with Mr Ruddock?He said, Minister asked to reverse the decision made "Yes, I do". I said, "Subject to an alteration reinstate the men who had received retrench- of the date, I shall carry on and receive the by the previous Minister that he would not deputation from you and your con- ment notices? stituents." Questions without Notice [24 FEB., 19761 Questions without Notice 3601 Subsequently I called for the file and If the roads in the Wollongong area require found that the honourable member for Cor- attention, I shall see that every possible rimal, who asked this question, had made attention is given to them by the Depart- representations on the same subject and that ment of Main Roads. But we will not be a letter had been addressed to him on the able to do that while the men are on strike. day that the ministries were changed. The letter which was signed by Mr Ruddock set CAMPlNG AND CARAVAN RESERVES out the position clearly. As I have said, Mr FISCKER: I address my question these men had been engaged for work on a without notice to the Minister for Lands and particular road. That work was complete, Minister for Forests. Have many holiday- no further funds were available for the makers from the inland areas of this State Bellambi division and retrenchments of expressed concern about the future of forty-eight men had been arranged. The coastal caravan parks? Will the Minister retrenchments were to be spread over a indicate to the House whether there has period. I conveyed this advice to the hon- been any change in the policy of the con- ourable member for Wollongong and said, tinuation of camping grounds in proximity "If you still wish to continue with the depu- to the wonderful beaches of this State? tations. I shall meet vou." Mr FISHER: I was concerned about a I was then advised by the honourable number of press reports that appeared soon member for Corrimal that he wished to be after I became Minister for Lands and Min- a member of the deputation. I agreed to ister for Forests and I issued a statement on that request. On the morning that the depu- the subject. I want it to be quite clear that tation was to arrive at my office I was there will be no indiscriminate closure of advised that a whole busload had arrived caravan parks in New South Wales while I from the Wollongong area and that a con- am Minister for Lands and Minister for siderable number of people wanted to meet Forests. In recent years a survey has been with me. I again agreed to increase the size made of all the caravan parks throughout of the deputation. The honourable member the coastal areas of New South Wales. This for Heathcote arrived unannounced, but bed survey is a valuable guide to the sort of cause he is a parliamentary colleague I re- development that I believe should take place ceived him in my office. The deputation in caravan parks. There is a growing need grew and grew until I think I had thirteen for the provision d more facilities in our people in my office, coastal areas. These facilities can be vro- [Interruption] vided, not only by the Department of ~inds, but also by local councils and they can be Mr SPEARER:Order! I call the honour- provided adequately in many areas by pri- able member for Heathcde to order. vate enterprise. Seventeen areas that had Mr BRUXNER: I informed the deputa- minimal or no facilities have been closed tion that the decision had been made by my and five caravan parks that were under the predecessor and it had been reviewed by me control of councils have been closed. I have in consultation with senior officers of the asked officers of my department to place Department of Main Roads. I explained to great emphasis on the survey to ensure that, the deputation that there was no chance of where possible, alternative sites are provided that decision being reversed. I should have and that, as far as possible, funds for the provision of facilities at these sites are made thought that, as he was present right available. throughout a discussion lasting two hwrs, the honourable member for Corrimal would I am most concerned that the facilities provided at many caravan parks are in- have been well aware of what had taken adequate and need to be upgraded consider- place. I was advised that day that some ably if they are to cater for the needs of men proposed to go on strike. I think my the large number of citizens of New South words to them were, "That is your business; Wales who enjoy a holiday by the sea. I it is a matter over which I have no control". assure the honourable member and the 226 3602 Questions without Notice [ASSEMBLY] Questions without Notice

House that it is my intention to pursue I cannot see any benefit from handing over vigorously a policy of providing further such controls to Canberra; and second, I caravan parks throughout New South Wales, do not think the free-enterprise Govern- particularly in coastal areas. I shall ensure ment in Canberra is interested in them. that where possible the other sections of the tourist industry such as the Caravan Parks BUILDING WORKERS INDUSTRIAL Association and the National Roads and UNION Motorists Association are asked for their Mr WEBSTER: My question without advice and co-operation in providing fur- ther caravan parks. The co-operation of notice is directed to the Minister for Revenue and Assistant Treasurer represent- local councils will also be sought to ensure ing in this House the Minister for Labour that as part of the provision of further and Industry. Is it a fact that officials of caravan parks adequate safeguards are taken the Building Workers Industrial Union have to protect the health of visitors to the parks. imposed fines and other alleged costs on a building industry employer? If this is so, PRICE UNIFORMITY will the Minister see what action can be Mr MALLAM: My question without taken to prevent recurrences of this sort of notice is directed to the Premier and Trea- activity? surer. In order to achieve uniformity of Mr RUDDOCK: It is remarkable that prices throughout the Commonwealth and Opposition members never want a question thereby help stabilize the consumer price asked regarding what might have been done index, will the Premier and Treasurer hand by any union. When a question of that sort over to the Australian Government the power to fix the price of petrol, bread, is asked they continue to take points of order. It has not been my responsibility for milk and eggs? long to answer in this House questions on Sir ERIC WILLIS: The workings of the behalf of the Minister for Labour and In- socialist mind are extraordinary in the ex- dustry. I have not been advised of the treme. Socialists seem to think that all one circumstances of the matter raised by the has to do to solve any problem is (a) hand honourable member for Pittwater but I over decentralized powers to a central gov- shall be pleased to refer the information ernment, and (b) exercise controls over that he has proferred to the House to the private enterprise, and then everything will Minister in another place. I am certain that follow. The honourable member for Camp- he will look fully into the question and will belltown is an economist at the same emi- promptly advise the honourable member for nent level as Whitlam, Cairns, Crean and Pittwater and the House of the facts rela- people of that ilk who in two years brought tive to his question. the Australian economy from one of the best in the world to one of the worst. I POLICE UID ON BALMAIN PREMISES have some news for the honourable member of which apparently he has not yet be- Mr PETERSEN: I ask the Chief Secre- come aware. Today the latest consumer tary whether on 28th November police price index figures on food were released. raided a house in Balmain occupied by two They show that in the past twelve months law-abiding citizens, Mr Michael O'Lough- the cost of food has risen less in Sydney lin, a research officer of the Miscellaneous than in four other States of Australia. The Workers Union and Miss Libby Barrett, a figures show also that in those States that teacher. What was the purpose of the raid exercise controls of the socialist variety, to and who authorized it? Was it a prelude to which the honourable member is so en- further raids on people who are politically deared, prices have risen higher than they active in opposition to the Liberal Party? have in New South Wales. In any event, Will the Minister assure me and the House the short answer to the honourable mem- that such authoritarian tactics of the police ber's question is, no, for two reasons: first, will not be repeated? Questions without Notice [24 FEB., 19761 Questions without Notice 3603

Mr COLEMAN: The raid, as the honour- have not at any time cast any aspersions on able member for Illawarra calls it, was con- or reflected in any way upon the worth of ducted at a time of grave worry in this or the good work being done by the Royal city and in the rest of the country over letter Blind Society. On a recent afternoon I made bombs. It was conducted in a fully author- a statement in the course of a speech that I ized way. Police had information that led gave at North Rocks, when at least one them to believe that it would be a helpful other honourable member of the House was step towards the solution of the mystery and present, about the total amount of money towards stopping the letter-bombing that that was made available by the Government was occurring if the raid referred to by the for the assistance of blind people in New honourable member was made. In fact no South Wales. I assure the honourable mem- arrests were made and the information that ber that nothing I said was intended to h- the police thought they would obtain on that ply that the Royal Blind Society of New occasion was not obtained. Since then the South Wales is not in need of extra funds two people referred to by the honourable to carry out its important activities. I said member have approached me and I have that the State Government's annual grant of made appointments for them to place on $15,000 to that society was only part of its record with me and with my department provision of services for the blind and deaf. their particular complaint. I shall be seeing Anyone who thinks that that is all the Gov- them for this purpose in the next few days ernment does for the blind and the deaf, or and I shall listen to what they have to say. that those are the only funds provided in this State for that purpose, simply does not In answer to the honourable member, I know what he is talking about. In all, this state emphatically that nothing faintly of the financial year the New South Wales Gov- kind that he in his fevered way imagines has ernment will be spending well in excess of taken place has taken or will take place and $1.5 million in the provision of services for no such policy of the kind he has mentioned the blind and the deaf. has been adopted or will be adopted. When one is dealing with problems such as the Much emphasis has been placed on the horrors that occurred during the letter- level of assistance given in some other bombing period and when information leads States to organizations concerned in the police to think that they may be able to welfare of the blind. However, I point out stop them, the duly authorized step taken is for the benefit of the honourable member a proper one, and it was on this occasion. for Wallsend and anyone else interested in this question that it is always difficult, ROYAL BLIND SOCIETY especially when we are relying on extreme- Mr BOOTH: Did the Premier and Trea- ly brief press reports, to determine whether surer last week issue a statement about State we are comparing like situations. For ex- aid to the deaf and blind which has been ample, one of the sums quoted, that pro- described by the general manager of the vided for the Victorian Association for the Royal Blind Society as misleading? Is it a Blind, which receives from the Victorian fact that, whereas New South Wales makes Government $827,500 this year, relates-I a grant of $15,000 per annum to the Royal am told-specifically to nursing home care Blind Society, the Victorian Government for elderly blind people. This is not an grants $1,157,500to two similar societies? activity in which the Royal Blind Society In view of the possible damage done by the of New South Wales is actively involved statement of the Premier and Treasurer to but assistance in that field is given by the the fund-raising appeal by the society, will New South Wales Government through he correct the impression in his statement other channels. that $1 .S million and not $15,000 is given There is no doubt that the Royal Blind to the society, and apologize to it? Society is providing an important and Sir ERIC WILLIS: I should like to make worthwhile service for the blind and I quite clear, as apparently it is not to the strongly urge that the widest support be honourable member for Wallsend, that I given to the society's door-knock appeal next 3604 Questions without Notice [ASSEMBLYJ Housing Funds

month. It may be of interest for honourable PUBLIC ACCOUNTS COMMITTEE

members to know that only today I have ELECTION OF MEMBERS signed and sent a letter to the Royal Blind Society indicating the extent to which the Mr SPEAKER: In accordance with section Government will support its appeal and 16 of the Audit Act, 1902, as amended, I wishing it much success. It is quite a fool- have received from the Premier and Trea- ish exercise and achieves no purpose what- surer the nominations of Robert Bruce ever to compare one organization in one Duncan, Esquire, honourable member for State with one organization in another State Lismore, and Arthur Edward Allanby without taking into account whether they Viney, Esquire, honourable member for are the only organizations in those States, Wakehurst, for election and appointment as whether they have the same or different members of the Public Accounts Commit- functions and any other relevant matters. tee constituted under that Act. I shall sub- Unless those factors are taken into account mit forthwith to the House for decision by the only result is to stir up unnecessary open vote the names of the members so trouble. nominated, one by one, in alphabetical order, no debate being allowed. All I was trying to do last week in refer- ence to this matter to which the honourable Robert Bruce Duncan, Esquire, appoin- member has referred was to indicate to ted. anyone who says that this sum of $15,000, Arthur Edward Allanby Viney, Esquire, given by way of grant in this year's Budget appointed. to the Royal Blind Society, is the only help given to the blind by the Government of HOUSING FUNDS the State just does not know the full story. I think that is where the matter ought to Debate resumed (from 14th October, be left because all the organizations associ- 1975, vide page 1757) on motion by Mr ated with the blind are commendable. They Pickard : all do splendid jobs. The Government is That this House- glad to help them and to provide direct help (1) views with alarm the failure of the through other agencies of the Government Federal Government to increase moneys under the Commonwealth/State Housing which provide assistance to those persons Agreement thereby decreasing the ability with this unfortunate affliction. of terminating building societies to meet current housing loan demands from low Income earners; SELECT COMMITTEE UPON THE (2) urges the Government to make every FISHING INDUSTRY effort to ensure a substantially increased REPORT allocation of funds to these societies; (3) is of the opinion that the means test Mr COWAN (Oxley), Minister for as it now applies to terminating building Agriculture and Minister for Water Re- society loans be indexed with interest sources: As chairman of the Select and incomes between $150 and $250 per week and that the minimum and maxi- Committee of the Legislative Assembly upon mum be reviewed every three months; the Fishing Industry, for whose considera- and tion and report this subject was referred on (4) asks the Government to give serious 26th February, 1975, I bring up and lay consideration to the introduction of upon the table the report, minutes of pro- legislation to allow terminating building societies to enter the second mortgage ceedings and evidence taken before the field of home financing. Select Committee. Mr FACE (Charlestown) [4.54]: Since PRINTING COMMITTEE the last occasion on which this matter was FIFTEENTH REPORT debated in this House, the whole issue has changed. It is quite evident to me that what Mr BREWER, as chairman, brought up the Fifteenth Report from the Printing Com- I was saying previously about this motion mittee. being a divisive move by the honourable Housing Funds [24 FEB., 19761 Rousing Funds 3605 member for Hornsby to discredit the Aus- truth of what has happened since the Fraser tralian Labor Party was quite accurate. AS Government's eleation to Canberra is that things are emerging in Canberra now, there the Commonwealth Government will not is no doubt that this was very much a part live up to its responsibilities under the of what happened on 11th November last. Commonwealth-State housing agreement. It In faot, since this debate was adjourned the is a distinct possibility that the Common- new Prime Minister has intimated, through wealth Government will disregard its obliga- the Victorian Premier, that assistance to the tions to those in need of welfare housing States under the Commonwealth-State and those seeking to exercise their right of Housing agreement may have CO be recalled. owning their own home. Since I have been a member of this Par- The honourable member for Hornsby liament there have been several Ministers went on with tedious repdition about the for Housing and Ministers for Co-operative needs of young people to own their own Societies. The honourable member for Wil- home. He did not need to tell any honour- loughby, the former Minister, went with the able member that. I do not think anyone Opposition's shadow minister for housing would disagree that probably one of the and co-operative societies and met with the things closest to the heart of most Austra- federal Labor Minister for Housing and lians in years gone by has been to own their Construction and officers of his department. own home. I cannot see any change in that Submissions were put to the federal Minis- thinking in the near future. When this mat- ter, who intimated that they would receive ter was last before the House we heard sympathetic consideration. Of course, the Government supporters hypocritically full circle has been traversed and the situa- preaching restraint on one hand but on the tion has changed considerably. I am in- other hand calling upon the Australian Gov- terested to see what this Governrnent will ernment to increase the moneys it was do in relation to this debate. Perhaps it making available to terminating building will remain silent. I have no doubt that the societies. Despite that, the new Fraser previous Minister for Housing and Minister Government has done nothing in those for Co-operative Societies was genuine in directions in an attempt to rectify the situa- his desire and attempts to assist terminating tion. One would have thought that in put- building societies. However, I do not believe ting forward this motion the mover would that the member who put forward this have had some prior knowledge about a pro- motion was genuine and at the time it was posed change. Whether it was a figment of moved I said that I thought it was part of his imagination or just a means of attempt- a political stunt. ing to bring discredit upon the former Aus- tralian Government remains to be seen. The Government has adopted a hypocriti- cal attitude. The housing situation is serious There is no more pressing need in the and will not be easy to overcome. There community than housing. There is a need are no prospects of getting further funds in the area of welfare housing and home from the Fraser Government for terminating ownership through banks, permanent and societies. If one reads through the speech terminating building societies. It ill behoves made by the honourable member for Horns- anyone to try to make political capital out by one sees that he was going to pull money of housing problems. That does not do from anywhere and everywhere for housing. anybody any credit. On numerous occasions On one hand he was criticizing the former in my company the previous Minister for Australian Government for restraint in try- Housing approached the problem in a genu- ing to overcome inflation but on the other ine way without trying to bring housing into hand he was saying where he would get the political arena. In the last days of its money for housing. He suggested that the term of office the Australian Labor Gov- expenditure of the Department of the Media ernment was making some progress towards could be scaled down to the tune of $100 this end even though it may not have been million, and he gave other figures, all of the progress that some people desired or which have since been disproved. The real suggested was desirable in the debate when Housing Funds [ASSEMBLY] Housing Funds this motion was last before the House. I The motion was not designed to make do not think that any member of the House political capital; it was designed to give would disagree that housing is a problem honourable members the opportunity to ex- in the communitv and that it will continue press their views and those of their con- to be a problem'for some time. stituents on a problem that had become extremely acute. We may later examine why No one can wave a magic wand and it became acute. When the motion was overcome the problems related to housing moved, enough political capital was being that beset this State. Monetary problems made by the irresponsible political oppor- are not peculiar to this State; they are tunists in Canberra. The motion was de- common throughout the world. The Prime signed to draw public attention to a critical Minister has already found that out. Hon- situation. Since the motion was moved cer- ourable members have heard about dole tain things have happened in Canberra. cheats and the way more money can be made available to permanent building socie- hlr EINFELD: Disastrous things. ties. The housing problem in New South Mr DARBY: They were disastrous for Wales will not be solved by debates that those who thought they could ride rough- are not constructive in any way. It will be shod over democracy in Australia and des- helped if the present Minister can live up troy Australia's heritage. to the standards set by his predecessor in consulting with people. If he does that he Mr EINFELD: The honourable member will have an easy job during his term of for Manly should not attack the Governor- office. General in that way. Mr DARBY (Manly) [5.3]: 1 should Mr DARBY: It was a wonderful gift to like to say how much I agree with some Australians, to have a responsible Govern- things that the honourable member for ment in Canberra after three years of Charlestown said. I agree with his tribute misery. As that change has taken place, I to the former Minister for Housing, who wish to move an amendment to the motion to my personal knowledge was always ready originally moved by the honourable member to listen to a sad story and always worried for Hornsby. I move: about problems facing many people with That the Question be amended by leaving the desire to have homes in which they can out paragraphs (1) and (2) with a view of live with dignity. Within the limits of the insecing the following paragraph instead there- stringent financial controls, the former Min- of- (1) urges the Federal Government to in- crease moneys under the Commonwealth/State ister did as good a job as any Minister for Housing Agreement thereby increasing the Housing has done. He deserves the com- ability of terminating building societies to meet mendation of all honourable members as current housing loan demands from low in- well as that of the community. The second come earners;" thing said by the honourable member for If my amendment is agreed to, paragraph Charlestown with which I agree was that (3) of the original motion will become the housing situation is desperate and de- paragraph (2), and paragraph (4) will be- mands most careful consideration by mem- come paragraph (3). The housing problem bers of Parliament and owners of land or in New South Wales has been in the fore- other facilities in order that people might front of political concern for many years. I shall always pay tribute to the late Sir be assisted to have their own homes. Of Bertram Stevens who, in the midst of a course I disagreed with the honourable depression, immediately he became Premier member for Charlestown when he said that of New South Wales, made a trip to Eng- we should not talk politics about this mat- land to study the workings of the building ter. Following inflation, housing is the most society movement there. The building important political problem. Until every society movement in England was pioneered person who wants a home can get one by such organizations as the Abbey Road reasonably, honourable members should Building Society shortly after World War I. never be satisfied politically. He returned with a blueprint for the Housing Funds [24 FEB., 19761 Housing Funds 3607 sponsorship of the terminating building State housing instrumentality, detached cot- society movement in New South Wales tages built by a housing commission to pro- which was followed by all States and be- vide homes for people. I was one of the came a guiding light for housing develop- guilty persons who said it could not be ment for people to own their own homes done. I said that after the extraordinary throughout the 1930's and subsequently. expenditure of resources during World War Though the honourable member for I1 too few resources would be available to Charlestown was insistent that the ideal provide the ordinary working man on the situation was for a man to own his own basic wage, or slightly above it, with a de- home, that is not consistent with his social- tached cottage. I was called a fascist re- istic attitudes and pledge. The socialist be- actionary for my lack of vision. lieves that a man should lease his home from some State instrumentality. With a Labor government in Canberra and Labor governments in most of the The contribution that Sir Bertram Stevens States, the idealistic, impossible dream of made to the terminating building society the Housing Commission providing homes movement in New South Wales laid the for the people in a reasonably short term foundation for what we might call the Aus- after the cessation of hostilities was begun. tralian dream of housing for the working What was the result? Only a few of the man. During World War I1 a great part people who deserved homes of their own of the nation was wondering what would were able to get those homes and long happen when the war was over and whether lists of people waiting for Housing Com- there would be homes for the people. Obvi- mission homes began to appear. A ballot ously, during the period of the war no build- system was introduced and the Labor Gov- ing of consequence took place and no ernment, finally realized that this was un- attempt was made to provide homes. All fair and inequitable, in that those getting Australia's energies were concentrated on the into the ballots were not the hard-working war effort and the available building materials stalwarts; they were persons who said that were used for buildings associated with our they would not bother about trying to solve military preparations and activity. During their own housing problem and would wait that period the dream of post-war recon- until they could draw a lucky marble out struction was that when the soldiers return- of a barrel. ed we should undertake a big housing pro- gramme to ensure that after World War I1 Then the Government of the day brought there would not be unemployment, such as in a priority system and a person who got there was after World War I. on the list for a home would wait five, six or seven years until a Housing Commis- Mr CRABTREE: Legislation was intro- sion home was available. Meanwhile the duced before they came home; it was not wonderful terminating building society a matter of dreams. movement, instead of being able to acquire Mr DARBY: That is true. The Govern- from various sources, including government ment of the day worked hard on its plans. sources, enough money to satisfy the needs The idea was that when the men returned of the people, was unable to borrow in the there would be full employment in a major way it should have done. The result was direction towards the building of homes for that of all the countries in the world that the people. had to recover from the troubles of World War 11-and Australia did not have the Mr CRABTREE:The honourable mem- devastation to its cities that countries in ber's party opposed it. Europe and elsewhere suffered-Australia Mr DARBY: I personally opposed a was way down the list. I should say that number of proposals that were made-and New South Wales under Labor administra- that was before I entered this House. The tion was the worst served in the post-war idea was that we should have, through a world when one considers the solving of 3608 Housing Funds [ASSEMBLY] Housing Funds post-war housing problems. That was a took office the problem of inflation emerged. legacy to the incoming Government of New The Government had to face the problem South Wales in 1965. of the high cost of land-something never tackled by the previous government. During Immediately upon taking office, the its long years of office the Labor govern- Liberal-Country party Government started ment had failed to increase-as it should to widen the scope of the Housing Commis- have done-the serviced capacity of an sion and at the same time to encourage the expanding metropolitan area to provide permanent building societies. The coalition transport, water and sewerage for outlying Government introduced important legida- areas which could provide relatively cheap tion to help permanent building societies. land for our developing population. For Far be it for me to say, "I told you so," but example, during the period Labor was in by 1955 the Housing Commission's task in office, although the population of the metro- trying to build homes for the people had be- politan area almost doubled, not one sub- come sci despondently impossible that the urban railway was built, and sewerage, commission had started to build flats, and water and other services were sadly neg- then town houses, so that instead of being lected. able to provide homes for the homeless in detached cottages, the commission had to I come now to the serious situation that move to a tenement situation and start to prompted this motion-the imposition by build multistorey slums which completely the federal Government under the Common- negated the idealism of the Housing Com- wealth-State Housing Agreement of 1975- mission in the early days after the war. 76 that no more than 80 per cent of the housing allocation under the agreement was I was able to say in truth that it was to go to the Housing Commission, and not impossible to expect, with the limited re- less than 20 per cent was to go to the ter- sources of the man on a minimum wage, minating building societies. This imposition that he could own a detached house when was implemented by the Commonwealth he starts in life with a wife and young Government, which at the same time urged family. I wanted terraced townhouses. What the Housing Commission to increase the is happening now is that a large part of building rate. However, as the Common- the Housing Commission's operation is con- wealth Government had allotted only the cerned with the construction of flats, tene- same amount of money for welfare housing ments and future slums. Here was the as was allocated in the previous year- legacy of the difficulty of the financial situ- $124.16 million-the Housing Commission ation. It is to the credit of the coalition was in an awful situation. Government of New South Wales that it began in 1965 to try to bring some realism The Housing Commission had no more to the problem of recovering from the hous- money to spend at a time when inflation ing shortage caused by World War 11. This had decreased the value of money by about was fifteen or twenty years after peace was 15 per cent. It could let no more con- declared. tracts, because it needed the full 80 per cent to cover the commitments into which Mr CRABTREE: The Liberal Party aban- it had entered. The Housing Commission of doned the agreement. New South Wales was in a desperate situa- Mr DARBY: I shall come to that in a tion, for its plans and commitments were moment. It is true that we had a consider- based on the expectation that the Common- able amount of immigration but it is equally wealth Government would at least increase fair to say that had the migrants not arrived the allocation to compensate for inflation. the basic industries for the making of steel As honourable members are aware, this did and bricks wouId not have been as fluent not happen; instead the Whitlam Govern- and productive. The fact is that New South ment was spending money in a host of ways, Wales started off on the wrong foot. Shortly which are now being disclosed as distinctly after the Liberal-Country party Government wasteful, to put it mildly. Housing Fun& 124 FEB., 19761 Housing Funds 3609 The Housing Commission's difficulties subject to a three months' variation, de- have arisen from inflation, inadequate pro- pending on the average weekly earnings for vision for cheap land in expanding metro- a male. I do not know whether that has politan areas, and the failure of decentrali- been adjusted since 31st December. zation plans. Despite the urgent and ex- tensive efforts made by the Liberal Party Mr CRABTREE: It was adjusted before Government when it came to office, the then. The former Minister for Housing difficulties still exist because insufficient spoke in this House about quarterly adjust- money was allocated at the critical time. ments. Although the Housing Commission is in a Mr DARBY: That is beside the point. desperate situation, the maximum amount The second problem mentioned in this that was available to the terminating build- motion concerns the man who receives a ing societies was a mere 20 per cent or wage slightly above the sum set for the $24.682 million, which was only half the means test. Based on the September quarter money that had been available for ter- figures, he became eligible for 5) per cent minating building societies in the previous interest if he received $154 or less, but if financial year. he earned one dollar more he had to pay Under the Commonwealth-State Housing 9) per cent. That is, of course, if he could Agreement the terminating building societies find a terminating building society that had were able to lend money at 5) per cent, the money. The motion proposes that there which I suppose was reasonable enough for should be a sliding or graduated scale be- a man on a fair income. It is a burden, but tween the 5) per cent and the 9%per cent. he has a house, even though his rates, in- It claims that the rise is much too steep, surance and other charges have gone up. In especially for people who just exceeded the order to ration the small amount of money means test sum. The motion proposes that available, they brought in a means test, a man on, say, $175 a week should pay whereby a person would have to earn below about 6-1 per cent, a man on $180 a week 95 per cent of the average weekly wage should pay 8 per cent, and so on. That before he became eligible for a loan at 5) would bring reasonable housing justice to the people who want their own homes. per cent. That meant that, if in the Sep- tember quarter a man earned $154.47 a Even if a formula could be devised, there week or less, he would be eligible, so long still is not the money available to terminat- as he could find a terminating building ing building societies to satisfy the demand. If inflation accompanies unemployment and society that had the money. However, the a shortage of liquid funds, and insurance terminating building societies had insuffi- companies, superannuation boards and other cient money to satisfy the demand for the financial institutions which would normally relatively few people who were earning less feed money into terminating building than 95 per cent of the average weekly societies cannot do so, the situation becomes wage. The first purpose of this motion is to even more crucial than it was before. Gov- ernments are not necessarily operative in point out that, despite the fact that money their interference in the ordinary business was available at 5% per cent for people of life unless a critical emergency exists or earning $154 a week or less, there was not arises. When there is flood or famine people sufficient money to satisfy the demand. must assist themselves and other people must assist too. If ordinary people cannot offer Mr EINFELD: There never has been. sufficient assistance, the Government should Mr DARBY: There has to be, and there step in. The motion now before the House ought to be. This motion, if it is amended is a clear plea to the federal Government to as I have suggested, says to the Common- realize the situation and do something about wealth Government, "Will you please realize it. It is true that the situation now existing the dtuation?"e motion goes further: it is not the fault of the present Common- recognizes that the $154 that was set is wealth Government. It is the fault of a long Housing Funds [ASSEMBLY] Housing Funds list of misjudgments, stupidness, bad man- moved by a gentleman who now occu- agement, false hopes and bad government pies the position of Minister for Edu- by the previous federal Labor government, cation, was not an endeavour to make and especially of the wide inflation which has political capital. That was an hilarious resulted from the past three years of Whit- statement. It was an unfair and unreal lam administration. This motion seeks assist- political motion moved by a party which ance and recognition from the federal Gov- happened to have a majority and in an at- ernment. I feel certain that the new federal tempt to decry efforts that had been made Minister for Housing, well awars of the by the Australian Government to do some- situation, will 63 his utmost to se; that the thing to advance housing. The previous fed- suggestions included in this motion will in eral Government provided $332.8 million to du- course he implemented. New South Wales for housing in a period of Mr EINFELD (Waverley) [5.33]: I was three years. In the last three years of Lib- listening to the honourable member for eral-National Country party coalition admin- Manly as intently as I could until I realized istration in Canberra the housing grant was that he did not know that the McMahon only $150.3 million. Liberal-National Country party coalition Whichever way one talks about inflation Government had broken the Commonwealth- and the decrease in the value of money, State Housing Agreement. I was listening it is impossible to say that $150.3 million intently to the honourable gentleman until in the last three years of Liberal-National I realized that he did not know that it w.is Country party government in Canberra was the former New South Wales Minister for equivalent to more than the $332.8 million Housing who had impressed upon the fed- provided by the Australian Labor Party eral Minister for Housing and tile federal when in government in Canberra. I compare Government that a reduction of at lea.;t $10 the $48.3 allocated in 1970-71 by the million should be made in the allocaticn to Liberal-National Country party coalition terminating building societies so that more Government with the $123.4 provided for money could be given to the Housing Com- housing in 1974-75 by the Whitlam Labor mission to help overcome difficulties faced Government. One can easily see that the by the commission. I listened carefully to amount allocated by the Whitlam Govern- the honourable member for Manly until I ment was 'much greater than that provided realized that he was living completely in the by its predecessors, the Liberal-National past and had basically no knowledge what- Country party coalition. It is quite clear and ever of the true situation. Then 1 heard the an historical fact that the former Minister honourable member criticizing the New for Housing in this State, whom we respect South Wales Government's administration highly for his desires and hopes to increase with regard to the building of units and fl:+ts. the amount of housing available to the Has anyone ever heard such ridiculous non- people, agreed that it was due to his pres- sense? Everyone realizes that people cannot sure and his strong recommendations to the go too far out of the city any mors. There federal Minister that $10 million was taken has to be a limit. The alternative is for away from terminating building societies and housing construction to go up. I thought given to the Housing Commission. None of everybody realized that. There is insufiicient us wodd deny that. land available to do anything else. J stopped listening to the honourable member for I do not criticize the honourable member Manly when I realized there was nothing to for Willoughby. He felt that what he was be gained by listening to him. doing was right. The federal Minister for Housing told me that though he was reluc- The Opposition is not opposed to the tant to agree to the suggestion, the pressure motion as it will stand when amended. The from the New South Wales Minister for amendment makes it a reasonable motion, calling npon the federal Government to do Housing and Minister for Co-operative certain things. Another absurdity in relation Societies was so strong and forceful and to the iionourable member for hianly was properly presented that he relented and that he said that the original motion agreed to the proposal. The fact that a lesser Housing Funds 124 FEB.,19761 Housing Funds 361 1 sum of money than was expected was pro- coalition Government to give us more vided for terminating building socieities was money for terminating building societies. I due entirely to pressure being put upon am all for that: let us press for that. the federal Minister and the federal Gov- ernment by the former Minister for Housing At the meeting of the Premiers with the in this State. I am a tremendous supporter Prime Minister in February our Premier of terminating building societies. I have been and Treasurer agreed to an undertaking so for many years. I am chairman of twenty- related to low-p.riced housing at Woolloo- four terminating building societies and for mcoloo-or did he? At first he said this purpose I have used $4 million, most he did not give the undertaking and of which has been borrowed from sources then he said that it was not a formal under- other than the Commonwealth-State Housing taking. Low-priced housing was to dis- Agreement, though some came from that appear from Woolloomooloo and offices source. These societies have never had any- were to be built instead. Thank goodness thing go wrong with them. the story came out ultimately. Initially the Premier and Treasurer denied that he spoke No governments have ever provided of it at all and then he said that it was only enough $moneyfor housing or for terminat- spoken of at morning tea time. Now the ing building societies. If they had done so Prime Minister is saying that low-cost hous- there would not be the lag that now exists. ing will be proceeded with in that area. No Recently a spokesman for the Institute of doubt everyone will breathe a sigh of re- Urban Studies said that Australia was head- lief because of that statement. At that same ing for a massive rental shortage. Six months meeting at which the Premier was present, ago the former federal Minister for Housing the Hon. R. J. Hamer asked the Prime said precisely that. It is a fact. I have con- Minister for more money for housing. The stituents, even in these days, who cannot Prime Minister said nothing. He was worse get an allocation from the Housing Commis- than the Minister for Agriculture, who, in sion, or who have had to wdt too long and this House today, said "No". The Prime have been evicted or threatened with evic- Minister was worse because he did not say tion or have been forced to leave the area. anything. The nation is faced with a govern- They have not been able to rent a two- ment in Canberra that has already broken bedroom flat for less than $40 a week. In promises. Already the government in Can- no time at all the minimum rental charge berra is trying to cut down on expenditure for a two- or three-bedroom flat, so-called and to increase charges in every possible because they are old and cannot be referred way. Let us ask the Australian Government to as units, will be $55 or $60 a week. and press it, for more money. I am for the amendment which reads: It is not uncommon to read advertise- ments in the Sydney Morning Herald on "(1) urges the Federal Government to in- crease moneys under the Commonwealth/State any day indicating that in the lmore com- Housing Agreement thereby increasing the modious areas with pleasant surroundings ability of terminating building societies to meet housing is offered at rentals of $120, $150 current housing loan demands from low income and $160 a week. If one looks at rents in earners." Glebe, Pyrmont and other working class The present Minister and the former Minis- areas it is not unusual to find a terrace ter for Housing and Minister for Co-oper- house offered for rent at $75 or even $85 ative Societies will be delighted if more a week. There is a tremendous housing shortage in New South Wales. But, every- money can be obtained for terminating body does not want to own a house. Some building societies. I shall be waiting at the people could not own their own home. They door to receive assistance for the group of do not have the means to do so. Some societies with which I am associated. Let us people do not want to buy a house. They ask this of the Prime Minister who has held should not be forced to do so. The housing office since 13th December and has already shortage is becoming acute. We must press opposed indexation of wages to which he the federal Liberal-National Country party formerly agreed. 3612 Nousing Funds [ASSEMBLY] Housing Funds Mr WEBSTER:Quite right. purposes. The Prime Minister has taken away from pensioners their funeral allow- Mr ELNFELD: The honourable member ance. I should like to go with someone to for Pittwater wants the Prime Minister to ask the Prime Minister for the money that break his promise. Interest rates have al- is needed. This man who is born to rule is ready been increased. The federa1 Govern- the man who will lift his nose as he did to ment sold bonds at 10.5 per cent interest. the Hon. R. J. Hamer. He did not answer That action forced the Minister for Hous- the Hon. R. J. Hamer. The Minister for ing and Minister for Co-operative Societies Agriculture in this House was treated badly to introduce legislation to increase interest because at least he answered. He said, rates by at least 0.5 per cent. From l lth "No". That was his reply. That was the March building societies will charge I I per first reply that the Minister for Agriculture cent interest because an ill-advised Treas- made when questions were asked of him in urer decided to issue bonds at 10.5 per this Parliament. cent interest. He increased interest rates at a time when an effort was being made to People in New South Wales need more bring them down. The Whitlam Govern- houses. That is obvious when one looks at ment had been successful to some extent in housing approvals. In December, 1974, the reducing interest rates. number of government dwelling approvals The other day the Minister for Employ- was 1 170. In December, 1975, it was 140. ment and Industrial Relations said that un- In November, 1974, the number of ap- employment was growing, and would grow provals was 591. In November, 1975, there to 400 000 or perhaps 500 000. Who will were 30 approvals. In the period from July be able to use this money? The Opposition to December, 1974, the number of govern- asks the federal Government, which has al- ment approvals was 4 062. In the same ready broken the promise it made to the period for 1975 it was 515. president of the Australian Council of Mr WEBSTER:The honourable member Trade Unions that it would not bring up for Waverley is giving figures for South questions related to industrial relations in Australia. this session of federal Parliament, to pro- vide more money for housing. The federal Mr EINFELD: As a matter of fact it Government is setting about introducing would nat do the honourable member for that legislation. That Government has al- Pittwater any harm-it would be an educa- ready delayed by nearly a month the pay- tiollal trip for him-if he spent some time in ment to old people of pension increases. South Australia with its brilliant Premier, Aged people are still waiting for their in- the Hon. D. A. Dunstan. That would teach creases in pensions. him a lot. Of course there is a desperate need for more housing. The Opposition is The Opposition asks for more money to anxious to bridge the gap in available hous- be made available to help low income ing. The gap is widening every day. The groups with housing problems. The Prime number of applicants to the Housing Com- Minister deliberately broke his word when mission is growing but the number of houses he decided that pension increases would not available for allocation is declining. What be payable until at least a month later than is the end )to be? How will people get he had promised, thus keeping the pensioner homes? There is no money for terminating short of money. The Prime Minister of Australia has already shown that he will building societies and there are no approvals treat the ordinary working people badly. for new residences. More applicants for He has already refused to pay $2 a day to housing come to light every day but a declin- hospitals for patients. That amount had been ing number of houses is available. As the paid for some time. The Prime Minister programme continues and buildings are com- has been discussing the re-introduction of pleted, what will &he answer be? In the television and radio licences. I am all for month of November, 1975, there were only asking him for more money for housing thirty approvals for residences. When the Housing Fud [24 FEB.,19761 Housing Funds 3613 day comes when those houses are com- (the urgent activity of the Commonwealth pleted, only thirty families will be housed. Government led by Mr Fraser as a result of In the meantime probably 300 more applica- which the rate of interest is increasing, in tions for housing will have been made. The the private sector people are unable to build position is becoming more desperate. The residences for sale or rental. The best re- State is getting worse off for housing and turn an owner or builder can get, so in- more and more problems are being created. formed private builders say, is about 4 per cent, and though there could be some accre- A number of matters worry me. One of tion of capital by remaining the owner of them is that it is suggested that if a person a building, the normal return is far too low does not buy a house he is not human. That -sometimes as low as 2 per cent. is not right. Some people either cannot, or do not want to buy their own houses. Those Many developers still want to sell, but people have to subsidize homeowners. Ac- people camot borrow enough money at a cording to the motion, people who earn reasonable rate of interest. As a result of between $150 a week and $250 a week are the Minister's determination the permanent entitled to loans but have not been able to building societies are to increase their bor- get them. Because d the former Australian rowing rate by 3 per cent from S+ per cent Government's wise legislation people who to 9 per cent which will mean a lending are buying houses obtain a reduction of in- rate of 11 per cent. If someone wants to came tax based on the amount of interest buy a home costing $30,000 and has they pay. A person with an average weekly $10,000 equity, he must borrow the remain- wage who buys a home with a building ing $20,000. I point out that 11 per cent society mortgage saves somewhere between interest on $20,000 is a staggering figure- 23 per cent and 3 per cent in hterest. That $2,200 just for interest alone. It is a des- person, because of the tax reduotion, has a pairing situation for them. sizable contribution made to him by those Mr CRABTREE: That is if they can get peopleitaxpayers-who pay rent. the money. There are many prablems to be faced. Mr EINFELD: The honourable member People make applications for loans but can- for Kogarah is a wise man who knows this not be provided with loans because of their field well. As shadow minister for housing low incomes. About the only wise or intel- on this side of the Parliament he is prob- ligent thing that the honourable member for ably one of the most knowledgeable men in Manly said-he must have read it some- this field. Only recently Mr Gibb, president where-was that in order to obtain a loan a of the permanent building society movement person's income ]must be not more !than 95 announced that the societies had reached the per cent of the average weekly wage. You, stage where there was no money to lend Mr Deputy Speaker, are knowledgeable in and there was a long delay. A few months these matters. As the farmer president of ago a borrower had only to make the appli- the co-operative societies movement you cation and get the money. Now as a result rendered assistance to that movement. I of the action of the intemperate federal pay tribute to you for the guidance you gave Treasurer in selling bonds at 10+ per cent to that organization over the years. interest, people withdrew money in millions The facts are that in New South Wales d dollars from permanent building societies we face a tremendous housing shortage and where it was earning 84 per cent and in- we are not going forward. We are going vested it in Mr Lynch's bonds at 104 per backward. In the areas of State supply, the cent. So there has been a drain of money. list is getting longer and longer and of The building societies have no money to course the Housing Commission has a fur- lend. It is a desperate situation, even though ther income control on its activities and the societies are lending at 11 per cent. tries not to allow the list to build up any further than it can help. Nevertheless, the The Opposition believes that the amended list grows and grows but the supply of motion is much more constructive and we houses is less and less. Already, because of on this side support it. It asks the federal 3614 Housing Funds [ASSEMBLY] Housing Funds Treasurer and the Prime Minister to pro- interest rate can be reduced so that funds are vide more money for terminating societies. made available at 93 per cent. It is true, In effect the motion in its amended form however, that in both the 99 per cent field, seeks more money for housing so that the which is the institutional field and in the States may allocate funds to terminating homebuildem' account field, !the need for building societies. It pinpoints the difficulty more money is desperate. of those in the $150 to $250 a week bracket and seeks to help them. It goes on to say The motion urges the State Government that interest and repayments should be in- to ask the Commonwealth to increase dexed and asks the Government to give moneys available under the Commonwealth- serious consideration to the introduction of State Housing Agreement and in so doing legislation to allow terminating building increase the ability of terminating building societies to enter the second mortgage field. societies to provide money for housing for That would be of assistance only if a lot low-income earners. I do not know whether more money were available. It certainly is it is known that all moneys the State gets not the case at the moment. We on this under the Commonwealth-State Housing side are happy to support the amended Agreement, for either the Housing Commis- motion. The motion originally moved was sion or the terminating building societies hypocritical, childish, absurd, insincere and comes in one lump sum. The money is not based purely on political intent. The split up. The agreement provides that the State shall divide it up so as to provide amended motion is worthwhile, constructive and says to Mr Fraser and Mr Lynch, "Give not less than 20 per cent nor more than us the money for building". 30 per cent to terminating building societies. Mr CRABTREE: The Government made Mr McGINTY (Willoughby) [5.55]: I the decision. am happy to support the motion either in the form in which it first appeared or as it Mr McGINTY: The Government made is proposed to be amended. The basic factor a recommendation, not a decision. The re- is the increase in the amount of 'money commendation I made to the federal Minis- made available to terminating building ter was a figure of 20 per cent. The answer societies. I do not know whether all honour- to that is simple. The honourable member able members realize the situation in respect for Waverley made some references to the of building societies. Traditionally, as they large increase in moneys available to the began in England a hundred years ago they States for housing generally, including the played an important part in the housing Commonwealth-State Housing Agreement, field. In New South Wales we have two by the Labor Government during its term types of building societies. The first is the of office. Let us look at that in its proper permanent building society which borrows context. The whole thing was part and money from investors on the open market parcel of an election promise to push the and relends it to those who want to borrow socialist idea of increasing the amount of money for housing. The other type of low-rental housing available to low-income society is the terminating building society, earners. This was a special programme in- but we have two types of terminating build- troduced by the Labor Government to in- ing societies. The first obtains its money crease the housing rate. Under my ministry from the State Government from federal the strength of housing construction in- funds made available through the ho'me- creased and we had a record number of builders' account which is borrowed at 43 6 000 houses built. That was a result of a per cent, for which the State charges 5 request from the Commonwealth Labor per cent, and f per cent is added by the Government, to which the State acceded. I terminating building society as a manage- ment fee. The other branch of the terminat- assure the House that it was not easy to ing building society is financed by institu- reach that level. We attained the target on tions such as insurance companies and sav- the basis that if we continued to maintain ings banks. Because the State Government the rate of construction over the years to guarantees a loan made to the society, the came-at least whiIe Lahr was in office- Housing Funds [24 FEB., 19761 Western Lands Bill 3615 the Commonwealth would continue to pro- of the act, leases issued for special purposes vide finance to carry out that programme. other than grazing, unless the Minister ap- That happened for one year and one year proves otherwise, and to confine the price only. It is all very well to say that Labor control provisions to the larger grazing gave massive amounts of money but the leases issued under various sections of the effect was never more devastating than when Ad. the Commonwealth cut off money for hous- ing. Before that the commission at no time The amendment referred to in subclause in its history had ceased its operations, but (3) of the schedule to the bill refers to the it had to cease work in July of last year. issue of certificates of qualification to hold The figures the honourable member for land which devolves under a will or intest- Waverley read out did not relate to low- acy. It is proposed to remove the possibility income earner housing but to other types of the issue of a certificate of qualification to an executor or administrator in a deceas- of housing the commission embarks upon, cm. ed estate. The amendment will ensure that, such as decentralized housing and so in future, such a certificate m2y be issued Mr SPEAKER: Order! As it is now 6 only to a beneficiary. o'clock p.m. the debate is interrupted pur- Another amendment is designed to prant suant to Standing Order 123~.This being to holders of leases for certain special pur- the second day on which the question has poses a concessiond rental of 24 per cent been discussed, the motion now lapses. of the capital value of the land-or such [Mr Speaker left the chair at 6.1 p.m. The other rate as may from time to time he House resumed at 7.30 p.m.1 prescribed-and to allow holders already paying rentals in excess of that rate to ob- WESTERN LANDS (AMENDMENT) BILL tain redress by applying to the local land INTRODUCTION board within twelve months from the dat5 of assent to this bill. Mr FISHER (Upper Hunter), Minister for Lands and Minister for Forests [7.30]: I The amendment referred to in subclause move : (6) of the schedule to the bill relates to the That leave be given to bring in a bill to conversion of certain types of western lands amend the Western Lands Act, 1901. leases into conditional purchases. It is pro- posed to remove an ambiguity in the rele- The objects of this bill are, first, to vary vant section of the Western Lands Act, the requirements relating to the extension of 1901, and it will be established that a holder term of western lands leases to perpetuity. will be able to apply for conversion into By the proposed amendment, the disqualifi- conditional purchase of so much of his cation that prevents a holder with substan- convertible leasehold land as would not, to- tially more $ban two home-maintenance gether with any other lands held by him in areas from applying for extension of term of fee simple, substantially exceed one home- his lease to perpetuity will be removed, and maintenance area. I shall be pleased to give opportunity will be extended to any holder further details at the second-reading stage. of land under lease for a limited term to obtain a perpetual lease of an area which, Mr RAMSAY (Wollongong) [7.34]: The together with any other lands held by him Opposition does not oppose the motion for in fee simple or as perpetual lease, would leave to introduce this bill, but I have certain not substantially exceed one home-mainten- reservations concerning some of the matters ance area. mentioned by the Minister. Some parts of the measure could be highly controversial, Another amendment seeks to define more especially those dealing with the rights of accurately the provisions of the Act which citizens where land ownership and tenure relate to the control of prices on sales of are involved. grazing properties held under western lands As the matter involves substantial and lease. The effect of this amendment will be mature consideration, the Opposition pro- to remove from the price control provisions poses to examine the bill in detail and to 3616 Western Lands Bill [ASSEMBLY] Natioml Fitness Bill debate the matter fully when the Ministei In disbanding the National Fitness Coun- in his second-reading speech indicates the cil, the question has arisen as to the future substance of the measure. We look forward of the National Fitness Fund. The fund had with keen interest to what the Minister will been set up to enable the National Fitness say at that stage, and we shall determine Council to pursue its objects. The fund now then the extent of our opposition. stands at around $340,000, all of which has been committed to various projects. It is Motion agreed to. proposed that all moneys in the fund now Bill presented and read a first time. be transferred to a special deposits account in the Treasury until all such moneys have NATIONAL FITNESS (REPEAL) BILL been disbursed. SECOND READING Although the National Fitness Council may be disbanded, there is no intention of Mr ARBLASTER (Mosman), Minister now ignoring the advice and assistance that for Culture, Sport and Recreation and Min- can be gained from informed members of ister for Tourism [7.35]: I move: the public. The range of sporting and rec- That this bill be now read a second time. reational activities, and the extent of leisure The National Fitness Council of New South time available to all sectors of the com- Wales was initially established in 1939. In munity, are increasing at a rate too rapid 1971 legislation giving the National Fitness not to seek comment from the increasing Council statutory authority was enacted pro- numbers of people directly involved. I wel- viding for a council of twenty members with come such comment. powers, authorities, duties and functions I take this opportunity to pay tribute to centred on the development and promotion the excellent work of the National Fitness of physical fitness throughout the State. Council and, in particular, to the late Mr Although physical fitness has played such a Gordon Young. I am sure honourable mem- prominent part in the council's decisions in bers share the deep sense of gratitude of the past, the council has long since recog- not only myself but also the community, to nized that fitness alone is not possible to Mr Young, who was the first director of achieve without related development in all the council. As the iirst New South Wales areas of sport and recreation. Director of Phvsical Education he was for The establishment of the Sport and Rec- forty years known universally as "Mr Fit- reation Service of New South Wales in the ness". His death, in September, 1974, took latter half of 1972, as the successor to the from physical education, national fitness and National Fitness and Recreation Service, recreation in Australia a man of boundless which had grown alongside other training energy and supreme dedication. Indeed, he was a man who became a legend in his own services under the Minister for Education time. Gordon Young saw in recreation a before its transference to the Chief Secret- new perspective. He was the man who, years ary, clearly showed the Government's ready before anyone else, was telling people that response to this important community need. the greatest problem facing future Austra- Since that time the Sport and Recreation lians was the worthwhile use of their leisure Service has been expanded by the appoint- time. In 1965 he promoted the Recreation ment of highly qualified professional offi- Association of Australia, to advance the knowledge of recreation as an emerging cers, and by the establishment of decentral- science and a growing social need. Also, I ized regional offices. In effect, the Sport and pay tribute to Sir Adrian Curlewis, who Recreation Service is now in a position to served as chairman of this council for more provide expert advice on all the areas that than twenty years. have been the concern d the National Fit- ness Council of New South Wales. This There have been very positive achieve- situation has also evolved in other States and ments in the projects the National Fitness in the Commonwealth sphere. Council has been able to finance. This is National Fitness [24 FEB., 19761 (Repeal) Bill 361 7

evident from the great importance that is sport and recreation services compared with now placed on physical fitness throughout that of other departments is low, particu- the State. The council has willingly given larly having regard to the position overseas. the Government's Sport and Recreation Ser- vice ready co-operation and encouragement I suggest to the Minister that as this in respect of all its policies. I commend measure will do away with the National Fit- the bill to the House. ness Council, that body should be replaced by a citizens group that could form an active Mr PACIULLO (Liverpool) [7.40]: The sport and recreation advisory council to the Opposition does not oppose the bill for we Government. Such a body would give inter- believe that the repeal of the National Fit- ested people the opportunity to take part ness Act of 1971 is justified. We believe, in decision-making. I believe that this is also, that the National Fitness Council, an area in which many people in this State which was constituted under that Act, was would like to be involved. The logical re- inane and without teeth. The primary func- sult of the establishment of such a body tion of that council was to expend money would be that recommendations and advice provided by the Commonwealth through would be given to the Minister on the the national fitness councils that were estab- various issues that arise from time to time. lished in 'the various States. However, that A committee was formed to assist the position has now changed considerably. second Minister for Sport and Recreation Most, if not all, State governments have in this State, the present Minister for Hous- adopted the view that sport, recreation and ing and Minister for Co-operative Societies, fitness are all interrelated and they have but that committee has seldom met-if it established their own departments to which has met at all-to discuss policies and pro- funds are now being channelled by the posals in respect of sport and recreation. Commonwealth-at least that was the posi- The fact is that there was no need for that tion until the eleation of the Fraser federal body to meet having regard to the lack of Government. Most people who are in- financial support by the Government to terested in sport and recreation and the sport and recreation in this State. If the benefits that flow to the community from members of such an advisory group were those aativities are concerned about the chosen carefully, it would be of great assist- initial decisions made by the new federal ance to the Minister in ensuring that any Government in regard to sport and recrea- available funds were expended with the view tion. of obtaining the maximum benefits for sport and recreation. Despite the fact that certain In New South Wales we have so many decisions have been arrived at and some dedicated people involved in the activities of grants have been made from the soccer pool the Sport and Recreation Service of New money, my colleagues and I are not satisfied South Wales-indeed throughout the whole that this money was expended wisely and community-that the stage has been reached that proper consideration was given to its where the establishment of a separate De- allocation. partment d Sport and Recreation would be a positive step forward. The Minister said I make it quite clear that I am not sug- --and the Opposition agrees- -that national gesting that the allocation of these funds is fitness councils are now redundant. How- not a great step forward. As much as I ever, despite the establishment of sport and would be the first to criticize the level of recreation services and departments of sport those funds, the fact is that, at long last, and recreation in many States of the Com- money is now available and it may help to monwealth, our national fitness levels are not improving; they are deteriorating. Every bring New South Wales out of its present available survey into our fitness levels, state of complete stagnation as far as our whether in respect of adults or school child- sporting facilities are concerned. During a ren, shows that national fitness levels in by-election campaign one contribution was Australia are low. In my view this position made from the soccer pools fund. I am not is not CO-incidental. The funding of our in a position to say whether that project was 227 3618 National Fitness Bill [ASSBMBLY] Registered Clubs Bill deserving of support, but proper considera- bill would be entered into in about a fort- tion was not given to all the projects re- night. I say that by way of opening because quiring financial aid and the decision was I do not want to close off consideration of arrived at purely on a political basis. If an amendments that might be put forward by active sport and recreation advisory council organizations or clubs. were given adequate power and responsi- bility, it could make a sound contribution It is true that almost six months have to government policy. The Opposition has passed since this bill was introduced and appointed such a committee to advise it on read a first time in this House on 10th Sep- these matters. tember, 1975. When the bill was introduced it was intimated that the Government would I take the opportunity of supporting the not proceed with its second reading until Minister's remarks concerning Mr Gordon honourable members, representative club Young. I knew Gordon Young personally organizations, individual clubs and club for many years. No one could dispute that members, and indeed all interested persons, Gordon Young lived for sport, recreation had had ample opportunity to examine it. and fitness. His aim was to provide an in- It is fair to say that such representations and jection of interest in these activities and to comments made to me concerning the bill get governments, irrespective of their poli- fall into one of two categories. tical persuasions, to become involved in these areas that are such an important part First, some clubs and organizations have of our lives. Gordon Young was dedicated indicated a concern [that the revision and to these activities and he brought to bear rewriting of the existing provisions of the a considerable amount of knowledge about Liquo~Aot may operate to the detriment what was happening overseas. As I indi- of the club movement. Second, and perhaps cated earlier, the Opposition does not not unexpededly, opposition has been ex- oppose the bill; in fact, we regard it as a pressed to the introduotion of some matter step that should be taken and we support in the bill not at present the subject of the it. existing legislation. In this latter category the most commonly expressed opposition Motion agreed to. evident in the representations made to me Bill read a second time. has been against the compulsory keeping of a register of visitors. This opposition is COMMITTEE AND ADOPTION OF REPORT based on the administrative inconvenience and expense of keeping such a register. As Bill reported from Committee without to this, let me say that while the Govern- amendment, and report adopted on motion ment recognizes the difficulty and will move by Mr Arblaster. for amendment of the bill in respeot of the members of one club visiting another club REGISTERED CLUBS BILL for the purpose of playing in a sporting SECOND READING game or competition, it remains firm in the view that effective provisions with appro- Mr MADDISON (Ku-ring-gai), Attorney- priate sanctions must be provided under the General and Minister of Justice [7.50]: I bill to ensure that only persons entitled to move: use the facilities of a club enter into and That this bill be now read a second time. remain on the premises. I propose to com- Alt the outset I wish to inform the House ment in detail upon both categories of rep- that it is proposed to complete the second- resentations when dealing with the in- reading debate on this bill and then, instead dividual provisions of the bill. of proceeding into Committee, to allow fur- Before I turn to the bill with particu- ther consideration of specific amendments that might come forward from interested larity, it is appropriate to make certain clubs, organizaitons or associations con- general observations. The development of cerned with this measure. It is my broad registered clubs over the past twenty years intention that the Committee stage of the in this State represents perhaps one of the Registered Clubs Bill [24 FEB.., 19761 Registered Clubs Bill 3619 most dynamic social events in that period. comment that the dominant position as- In social terms the contribution made by sumed by these massive clubs was never the vast majority of clubs to the social, envisaged by the legislators of 1954 who sporting, recreation and cultural activities removed the restrictions on the issue of of the citizens of this State, and their farnili- certificates, or those of 1956 who legalized ties, is nothing short of magnificent. How- poker machines. ever, the significance of the development of clubs is not restriaed only to social issues. In 1969, the present Government took the then controversial step of placing limita- In econolmic terms, stable continuance of tions upon the size to which an individual the industry coupled with planned growth is club might grow. At the same time all clubs a vital necessity for the multitude of persons were required to formalize their structures employed in and dependent upon the club by incorporation under the Companies Act industry. or registration under the Co-operation Act. It is instructive, though perhaps now only Despite the measures introduced by the Gov- of historic interest, to note the major fac- ernment in 1969, and the steps taken over tors which brought about the development of the years by a great many individual clubs registered clubs in this State. Prior to 1905 and representative club organizations, it re- the sale of liquor in club premises was mains a fact today that a comparatively exempt from the licensing provisions of small, but significant number of clubs, rang- the Liquor Act. The Liquor (Amendment) ing from very mall to very large clubs, are Act, 1905, prohibited such sales and froze not being conducted in a prudent business- the number of clubs which might obtain like manner. The conduct of these clubs has registration to the number registered as at given rise to a reassessment of the need 1st March, 1906. The position remained un- for legislative control and checks for the altered until 1946 when the Liquor (Arnend- benefit of any clubs which might be poorly ment) Act of that year provided for the conducted, but more particularly for the issue of fresh certificates of registration, benefit of the rank and file members who on a pro rata basis approximating one club regularly enjoy the use of the facilities of for four hotels in the metropolitan area; those clubs. and one club for six hotels elsewhere in the I want to make it clear that mismanage- State. ment in registered clubs is not in the vast The next most significant event was the majority of cases attributable to dishonesty Liquor (Amendment) Act of 1954. That on the part of those responsible for the Act removed the pro rata restriction on the business and affairs of clubs, but rather issue of certificates of registration to clubs. results from a lack of expertise and under- Within the first three years following the standing of matters pertinent to the conduct introduction of the 1954 Act a total of 652 of an economically viable enterprise. It is certificates of registration were isssued bring- for these reasons, Mr Speaker, that the ing the total of registered clubs then in the main thrust of the bill before the House State to 1050. On 19th September, 1956, is to encourage better standards of conduct the Gaming and Betting (Poker Machines) and management by providing guidelines Act, 1956, legalizing poker machines re- which must be observed by all clubs. At the ceived assent. This Act provided the spring- same time a number of its provisions are board for the rapidly increasing number of directed to giving club members generally clubs to extend and increase in size in the the opportunity of scrutinizing the manner knowledge that the financial operations of in which their clubs are conducted. In addi- the clubs were secured by income from tion to the control and management pro- poker machines. Within a comparatively visions, the opportunity has been taken to short period of time some clubs of extremely revise and rewrite the existing legislation modest proportions burgeoned into large with the intention, wherever possible, of financial enterprises which dominated the achieving certainty and precision in areas business and social life of the community where, at the present time, the outcome of a in which they were situated. It is fair to particular application, or course of conduct 3620 Registered Clubs Bill [ASSE Registered Clubs Bill followed by a club, depends not on any the purposes of interpreting the bill and do specific provision of the Liquor Act, but not disturb in any way a different meaning more often upon a factor such as a well of the same words used in individual clubs. established practice adopted by clubs and By way of illustration, the rules of a par- accepted by the licensing authorities. ticular club may describe an ordinary mem- ber as a person who has certain qualifica- I now turn to the provisions of the bill. tions which entitle him to unrestricted mem- Its legislative construction is evident from bership of the club. The definition of the clause 3 which divides the bill into parts same term in clause 4 as a person who is and schedules. Part I contains such essential elected to membership of the club in accord- matters as the commencement of the bill at ance with the rules of a club, does not have clause 2; clause 4 as to interpretation; clause the effect of conferring upon a person of 5 as to the premises and defined premises restricted membership the unrestricted rights of clubs; and clause 6 as to the application of of a person described in the rules of the the jurisdiction of a licensing court under club as an ordinary member. the bill to the licensing court constituted and established under the Liquor Act. Clause 5 requires the licensing court, when Though clause 2 provides for the commence- determining certain applications relevant to ment of the bill upon a day appointed by the premises of a club, to deline or describe the Governor and notified in the Gazette, the premises in respect of which its certifi- I wish to make it quite clear that some time cate is in force, and to specify that those must be allowed to lapse to permit all clubs premises are the defined premises of the to become familiar with the requirements club. Clause 6 applies the provisions of part of the bill. I1 of the Liquor Act in respect of the hear- ing of proceedings under that Act to the I should mention also that legislation hearing of proceedings under the bill. In cannot commence to operate until regula- effect, the clause confers on the licensing tions to provide the machinery for its oper- court referred to in this bill the same juris- ation are made. When the bill has passed diction and consequential functioning as a through the Parliament, as undoubtedly it licensing court constituted under part I1 will, and Royal assent has been given to it, of the Liquor Act. there wiU need to be a lapse of time there- after-and I do not predict the precise Part 11 deals with the registration of clubs period-to allow clubs to put their houses and division 1 of that part refers to applica- in order and to consider how far the new tions for the grant and renewal of certifi- legislation affects their operations. The cates of registration and complaints for can- measure is not an ambush bill in any way. cellation of certificates. Division 2 of the The Government has allowed it to lie on same part refers to other applications, which the table since September. We shall pro- include applications for registration con- ceed with the second-reading debate tonight ditional upon the erection of premises; ap- and perhaps tomorrow and move to the plications to move to other premises, con- Committee stage in a fortnight or there- ditional upon the erection or alteration of abouts. There will be plenty of time for those other premises; applications to move considering all views and for clubs to be- to other existing premises; applications to come acquainted with the terms of the legis- make material alterations or additions to lation. As I said, there will be a lapse of the premises, or to increase or decrease the time after all legislative formalities have area of the premises, or to substantially alter been concluded and before the Act comes the use of any portion of the premises; into operation. applications to move to temporary premises; Clause 4 provides delinitions of various applications to use a specific part or parts expressions used throughout the bill, and of the premises as a dining area; applica- does not in my view call for specific com- tions to hold a Christmas function attended ment, other than to point out that the mean- ings of words such as member, full mem- by persons under the age of 18 years; and ber and ordinary member are meanings for applications to hold a function at which Mr Maidison] Registered Clubs Bill [24 FEB., 19761 Registered Clubs Bill 3621 persons other than members attend. Division for its members and their guests. This para- 3 of part I1 deals with the objections which graph is similarly worded to section 134 might be taken to the applications provided (C) of the Liquor Act and carries the same for in divisions 1 and 2, and the persons intention. Paragraph (f) again repeats the entitled to take those objections. Division 4 existing law and requires that the club shall deals with certain general matters relating to have premises of which it is the bona fide the registration of clubs. occupier and which are provided and main- tained from the funds of the club. I return to division 1 of part I. Clause 9 provides that the licensing court shall not The remaining requirements of clause 10 grant an application for a certificate of reg- ( 1 ) basically repeat the existing provisions istration or the renewal of a certificate un- of the Liquor Act requiring that the club less it is satisfied, among other things, that shall contain accommodation appropriate to the club, in the case of a grant, meets the its purposes with adequate sanitary and requirements specified in clause 10 (1) or, other conveniences; that the premises shall in the case of a renewal, has met those contain a properly constructed bar room, same requirements since the certificate was but shall not contain a separate area for granted or last renewed, whichever was the the sale of liquor to which there is direct later. The requirements in clause 10 (1) access from outside the premises; that no are matters which, with some modification, member of the club shall be entitled to de- are presently set out in sections 134, 134~, rive a profit, benefit or advantage not 134~,135 and 140 of the Liquor Act of afforded equally to each member of the 1912. They are regarded as essential pre- club, subjedt to the qualification that a requisites to the registration or the continu- member may derive a profit, benefit or ad- ance of registration of all clubs. vantage from a contract or agreement with the cluib if, in the opinion of the court, it I now deal with the requirements in de- is reasonable in the circumstances, or the tail. Clause 10 (1) (a) provides that a profit, benefit or advantage is payment of club shall be conducted in good faith as a money in respect of services to the club and club. Paragraph (b) requires the club to be the payment has been approved by resolu- a company within the meaning of the Com- tion to a general meeting of the club; that panies Act or a society registered under the no person, other than a member of the club Co-operation Act, or to be incorporated shall be entitled to derive a profit, benefit under another Act. Paragraph (c) requires or advantage from the registration of the that the club shall not have a total member- club, or the fact that the club has applied ship in excess of the numbers referred to for registration, except as provided in in clause 11, and clause 11 establishes these clause 10 (7) if, in the opinion of the numbers to be the same as those presently licensing court it is reasonable in the cir- provided under the Liquor Act. Similarly, cumstances of the case; and that the secre- paragraph (d) provides that the numbers tary or manager or employee or a member shall not be less than those prescribed by of the governing body of the club shall clause 12, and again these numbers are not receive any payment calculated by the same as are presently provided in the reference to the quantity of liquor pur- existing legislation. There is absolutely no chased, supplied, sold or disposed of by change in the provisions for the maximum the club. number of members that a club may have, nor in the minimum number of members Under clause 10 (3) the incorporation required as a prerequisite to registration as requirements of paragraph (b) do not apply to the clubs referred to as each of exists at present under the Liquor Act. those clubs have their origin in an Act Paragraph (e) of clause 10 (1) requires of this Parliament. As is presently the case, that a club shall be established for social, under section 134~(6) of the Act there literary, political, sporting or athletic pur- is power to exempt other clubs from the poses or for any other lawful purposes, and requirement should the necessity arise in for the purpose of providing accommodation the future. Similarly, clause 10 (4) exempts 3622 Registered Clubs Bill [ASSEMBLY] Registered Clubs Bill the Sydney Cricket Ground Club from the prescribed number except in special circum- requirement as to limitation of members. stances, or if a previous application was Clause 72 refers also to the Sydney Cricket made by the club under section 134~(4) Ground Club as well as the Newcastle Inter- of the Liquor Act. national Sports Centre Club. Clause 10 (5) repeats in part the relevant proviso to sec- Clause 14 adopts the same approach as tion 135 of the Liquor Act and exempts to the determination of the fee for the grant clubs where the management is vested in of a certificate of registration as is presently persons appointed by the Governor, and the provided. The amount is to be fixed by the club is one of primarily athletic purposes, licensing court but shall not exceed an from that portion of the requirement in amount calculated at the rate of $2 paragraph (e) which requires that the club a member as at the date of grant. Again, be established for the purpose of providing as to the renewal of a certificate of registra- accommodation for its members and guests. tion, the provisions of clause 15 are basically the same as those set out in sec- Referring back to the determination ot an tion 150~04 the Liquor Act. application for the grant or renewal of a certificate of registration, clause 9 (3) sets The one major departure is to substitute out the formalities which must be observed assessment of the renewal fee by the in the making of an application for a grant, Licenses Reduction Board with assessment and clause 9 (4) deals similarly with an by two licensing magistrates, one of whom application for renewal. In respect of both shall be the chairman or deputy chairman classes of application, clause 9 (6) em- of licensing magistrates. This departure powers the court to grant the application from the existing provisions foreshadows a notwithstanding that a ground of objection reappraisal of the role of the Licenses Re- has been sustained, or the club has failed duction Board and the future merging of its to meet a requirement clause 10 (l), if it functions into the funations of the licensing is satisfied that the objection or the failure magistrates. At a later stage I shall be is of a trivial nature or does not warrant moving an amendment to clause 15 (1) (b) refusal of the application. to take in the general increase in liquor license renewal fees announced by the As mentioned earlier when dealing with Premier and Treasurer in the current the requirements set out in clause 10, Budget. clauses 11 and 12 re-establish the maximum membership which clubs may attain. The Clause 17 sets out the circulnstances in situation is at present, and will continue to which the district inspector may issue a sum- be in the future, that no club registered mons calling upon a registered club to show after 30th June, 1969, shall have a member- cause why its certificate of registration ship exceeding 6 250. Clubs registered prior should not be cancelled or the club should to that date may attain memberships in the not be disqualified from holding a certificate following circumstances. A club whose of registration for a specified period. The membership at 30th June, 1969, was 5 000 grounds upon which such a complaint might or less may extend to 6 250. If more than be made are the same grounds as those 5 000 but not more than 10 000, it may upon which objection might be taken to the extend its membership by one-quarter of grant or renewal of a certificate of registra- the number of members at 30th June, 1969. tion, or that the club has done anything If more than 10 000 it may increase by one- in respect of which it might make an appli- eighth at the relevant date. The fmegoing is cation under division 2 without the grant of conditioned by the fact that a club may an application in respect of that thing. By exceed the prescribed limits by an applica- way of illustration, if a club makes material tion granted pursuant to seotion 134~(4) alterations or additions to its premises with- of the Liquor Act or by an application ont the grant d an application under clause under clause 11 (3). It should be noted, 20 it is open to complaint under the ground however, that the court is not empowered referred to in clause 17 (1) (b). As is the to make a determination in excess d the oase under the present law, the cour;t in Mr Maddison] Registered Clubs B21 [24 FEB., 19761 Registered Clubs Bill 3623 detemnining the complaint may cancel the clause 18. Clause 20 deals with an applica- ceMcate, disqualify the club from holding tion to make material alterations or addi- a certificate for such period as it sees fit, tions to club premises; to increase or de- order the club to pay a fine not exceeding crease the area of the premises of the club; $1,000, or dismiss the complaint. or to alter substantially the use of any por- tion of the premises. In respect of the Clause 17 (7) provides that where a fine earlier applications I have referred to there imposed under the clause remains unpaid is in each case an obligation upon the appli- beyond the (time allowed for payment, the cant to advertise his application in a news- certificate of registration shall be deemed paper circulating in the district. However, not to be in force. Clause 18 of division 2 the situation under clause 20 is distinguished of part I1 refers to two classes of condi- from the earlier applications. tional applications; first, an application by a club, not being a registered club, which pro- Undcr clause 20 (4) an application in- poses to have as its premises new premises volving an external alteration or addition, to be erected or existing premises which are other than a minor alteration or addition, to to be altered, the application being for the the building of the premises must be adver- grant of a certificate of registration; second, tised. In addition, under clause 20 (5) an application by a registered club which where the application is one made under proposes to move from its existing premises, clause 20 (1) and the application has not to new or altered premises, for endorse- been advertised, the licensing court, if it is ment of its certificate of registration in of the opinion that the proposal is one that respect of the new or altered premises. may affect the use and enjoyment of land adjoining the premises, or for any other rea- As was indicated in respect of an appli- son, shall adjourn the hearing an drequire cation under clauses 7 or 8, the court shall that the application be advertised. not grant the application unless it is satis- fied, among other things, that the club meets The obvious intention of the different the requirements specified in clause 10 (l), provisions relating to the publication of and the formalities in making and giving applications under clause 20 is to ensure notice of the application are observed. In that persons who live near club premises are the same vein, the court is not prevented made aware that the club proposes to make from granting an application under clause some alteration or addition to the premises. 18 if it is satisfied that a sustained ground Being thus made aware of the application of objection or a failure to meet the require- they might then, if they so wish be heard ments of clause 10 (1) is trivial or does as an objector to the application. Although not warrant refusal. Clause 18 (8) makes the same purpose would have been achieved provision for the grant of a final order by making publication mandatory in all where the premises have been completed cases, it is considered that this would create substantially in accordance with the plans needless inconvenience to clubs where the originally lodged within twelve months or application, as is often the present case, in- such further time as the court allows, volves either minor matters, or matters provided that no appeal in respect of the which on any reasonable construction could conditional grant remains unheard, or has not give rise to objection. been upheld, and provided that no objec- Clause 21 provides for an application by tion against the final grant has been sus- a club for authority to move to temporary tained. premises for a temporary period by reason Clause 19 provides for an application by of its existing premises becoming, or about to become, unfit for the accommodation of a registered club to move to other existing the club. The court shall not grant the premises for endorsement of its certificate application if it is satisfied that any objec- of registration in respect of the new pre- tion to the granting of the application has mises. Grant of the application is subject been sustained, nor shall the application be to basically the same factors as those raised granted unless the matters set out in clause in respect of initial applications under 21 (3) as to making the application and 3624 Registered Clubs Bili [ASSEMBLY] Registered Clubs Bill giving notice thereof have been complied often the auditorium of a club is the only with. Under clause 21 (7), when an auth- suitable premises in the town for the holding ority under the clause is granted the re- of a fundion such as the presentation of a quirements of clause 10 (1) (g) and (h) stage play or the holding of a public meet- shall be deemed to have been met and the ing. The use of club premises for functions temporary premises shall be deemed to such as these, in addition to the problem of be the premises of the club. cutting across the purposes of a club of pro- viding accommodation for its members, also Clause 22 provides for an application for raises a number of practical difficulties such an authority to use a specified part or parts as the admission of persons who are not of the premises of a club as a dining area. members of the club to the premises and The effect of the grant of this authority is the possibility of such persons consuming picked up in clause 43 which excludes from liquor on the premises or playing poker the definition of a bar in that clause a machines. Another difficulty that must be portion of the premises in respect of which recognized arises from the possibility of an authority under clause 22 is in force. competition between a club and the pro- Later in the bill various offences are created prietor of premises whose business it is to, in respect of persons under the age of accommodate functions of the type sought 18 years remaining in a bar. In addi- to be held on club premises. On balance, tion, restrictions are placed upon the loca- the Government takes the view that mem- tion of poker machines in a dining area, or any part of a club through which access bers of the public should not be denied the opportunity of attending a function on suit- to the dining area is obligatory. able club premises. Clause 23 (1) relates to two classes of Mr CRABTREE:Such as a local Red Cross application: first, an application for persons ball at the RSL club. under the age of 18 years to attend a func- tion associated with the celebration of Mr MADDISON: It is considered that Christmas in a part of the premises of a without being unduly restrictive certain club; and second, for persons other than broad guidelines should be indicated as to members of the club to attend a funotion of the nature of the function, and that effective a cultural, educational, religious or patrio&ic sanctions should be applied to the circum- nature in a part of the club. The first stances under which those persons might application is, of course, one which might attend. Clause 23 (5) in respect of both be made under the existing legislation. The classes of applications mentioned therein Liquor Aot acco~mmodatessuch cases. As imposes a penalty on the registered club and to the second, there has been a substantial the secretary of a club, if during the period demand over the years for amendment of specified for the holding of a function, the Liquor Act to pemnit the use of club liquor is sold, supplied, disposed of or con- auditoriums for various funotions at which sumed, or a poker machine is located in the persons other than club members and their part of the premises where the function is guests would wish to attend. The major held. Virtually, such functions involve the dficulty in providing an adequate answer throwing open of a club's auditorium to the to this demand lies in one of the basic public, with no prospect of the club being precepts d a club registration set out in able to regulate in any way the age of section 134 (c) of the Liquor Act--that the people attending the premises and to deal club must be established for the purpose of with athe problems associated with the pro- providing accommodation for the members vision of liquor in such circumstances or thereof and their guests. the opportunity of people to play poker machines. Obviously these restraints are It is accepted that many clubs, at con- necessary. The guidelines are being pro- siderable expense, have erected large well- vided to control a situation that might other- appointed auditoriums. In country centres wise get somewhat out of control. The especially not only are club premises the question was raised by way of interjection most impressive buildings in the distrid, but as to what type of function would be Mr Maddison] Registered Clubs Bill [24 FEB., 19761 Registered Clubs Bill 3625 covered. I think the function mentioned is premises are in the immediate vicinity of a within the guidelines provided. I do not place or site of public worship, a hospital know whether that is so or not, but we wiU or a public school; (g) any rule of the club have a look at that. There are ways and referred to in clause 30 (1) has been broken means by which things may happen within or any other rule of the club has been the terms of the Liquor Ad. habitually broken; (h) the club has been conducted or habitually used for any unlaw- Mr MULOCK:A blind eye has been ful purpose; (i) the supply of liquor will turned to them. not be under the control of the governing Mr MADDISON: That is not so. Visitors body; (j) intoxicated persons have been on are permitted on club premises if they are or have been seen to leave the premises; there at the invitation of a member and are (k) liquor has been illegally sold on the on the premises in the presence of a mern- premises within two years before the date ber. Many funations such as that referred of the application; (1) the secretary of the to by way of interjection-balls at RSL clubs club is not a fit and proper person to act -are covered within the strict letter of the as secretary, and (m) the certificate of law 'by reason of the clubs providing the registration should not be granted on any necessary facilities to permit the entry of other ground. guests of bona fide members of the club. I have taken the time to list these grounds We will have a look at what has been said exhaustively as they receive specific men- by way of interjection in regard to balls. tion in later subclauses listing the grounds In addition, certain specific grounds of ob- of objection to the application referred to in jection to an application under clause 23 those subclauses. Ground (a)-that the (1) (b) are provided in clause 25 (7) and requirements of clause 10 (1) are not I shall refer to these in dekail shortly. met-reflects the comments that I made Clause 25 of division 3 of part 11 sets in respect of the basic requirements listed out the grounds of objection to the grant of in clause 10 (1). I reiterate that these the applications referred to in divisions 1 are seen as essential prerequisites to the and 2, and clause 26 identifies the persons registration of all clubs and I add that by whom such objections may be taken. the vast majority of clubs will find no Clause 25 ( 1 ) provides the grounds for ob- difficulty in meeting these requirements. jection in respect of an application under The Registered Clubs Association has clause 7 for a certificate of registration and expressed concern that certain of the an application for the conditional grant of grounds of objection are expressed in words a certificate made by a club other than a that differ from the corresponding pro- registered club. visions of the Liquor Act. In particular, the association has pointed to ground (c). The grounds set out in clause 25 (1) This ground has considerable significance are (a) the requirements specified in clause for the reason that, almost without excep- 10 (1) are not met in relation to the tion, every club when seeking registration club; (b) the application does not comply is required to answer an objection based on in all respects with the requirements of this ground. I remind honourable members this bill and the regulations; (c) having that the ground of objection in paragraph regard to existing facilities and social amenities available to meet the purposes of (C) is "having regard to existing facilities the club, the club is not required to meet a and social amenities available to meet the genuine and substantial need; (d) the regis- purposes of the club, the club is not requir- tration or conduct of the club will, if the ed to meet a genuine and substantial need." application is granted, result in undue com- The corresponding ground of objection con- tained in section 140 (1) (lii) of the Liquor petition and economic waste; (e) the quiet Act reads: and good order of the neighbourhood in which the premises are situated will be dis- That having regard to the existing facilities for social amenities, recreation and refresh- turbed if the application is granted; (f) the ment or for cultural or political activities and 3626 Registered Clubs Bill [ASSEMBLY] Registered Clubs Bill to the objects of the club, the club is not court to be sufficient. Clause 25 (1) (m), required to meet a genuine and substantial when read with clause 25 (g), produces need. basically the same result. I draw the atten- An examination of the two provisions-the tion of honourable members to clause 25 one in [the Liquor Aot and the one in the (8). It is quite clear in effect that what is bill-shows that clause 25 (1) (c) expresses happening in the bill is no diierent from the intention of section 140 (1) (lii) in what the law is as set out in the Liquor Act. simpler terms. The existing provision con- Clause 25 (2) lists the grounds of abjection templates that regard be had to existing to an application for renewal of registra- facilities for social amenities, recreation and tion. It should be noted that the grounds refreshment; or for cultural or political ac- referred to in paragraph (a) of the sub- tivities, and to the objects of the club. The clause refer to matters arising at the time of new provision, in stating that regard be had objeotion whereas the grounds referred to in to existing facilities and social amenities paragraph (b) refer to grounds arising since available to meet the purposes of the club, the certificate of registration was granted. breaks down the artificial distinction be- tween clubs with objects relating to social Clause 25 (3) provides the grounds of amenities, recreation and refreshment on objection to a conditional application for the one hand, and clubs with cultural or registration under clause 18 (1 ) ; an applica- political objects on the other hand. At the tion for endorsement of certificate where a same time by referring to "the purposes of registered club moves to existing premises; the club" the new provision embraces all and an application under clause 20 for that which was intended under the old pro- authority to make material alterations, in- vision. Similar criticism as to a change of crease or decrease the area of the premises, wording has been expressed in respect of or substantially to alter the use d premises clause 25 (1) (d), which provides: of the club. The registration or conduct of the club Basically )thesegrounds are that proposed will, if the application is granted, result in premises do not meet the basic requirements undue competition and economic waste. of clause 10 (1) as ;to the provision of Concern is felt as to the inclusion of the accommodation; that the quiet and good word "conduct" in the paragraph. As a order of the neighbourhood will be dis- matter of strict expression the registration turbed or that the premises are in the im- of a club does not produce any result other mediate vicinity of a church, hospital or than the fact of registration; rather it is only school. In the cases of applications under that which flows from the fact of registra- clause 18 (1) by registered clubs and appli- tion which can bring about any result. For cations under clause 19 (1) objections on that reason, that which flows from registra- need and on undue competition and eco- tion is described in the paragraph as nomic waste are available. "conduct". Clause 25 (4) provides grounds of objec- Other grounds of objection which call for tion to an application under clause 18 (7) comment are ground (g), as to breach of for an order that a certificate of registration rules, and ground (m). I shall expand on be issued following conditional grant on ground (g) when dealing with clause 30. As matters that have arisen since the condi- tional application was granted. Matters rela- to ground (m), the proviso to section 140 ting to the premises of the club are ex- ( 1 ) of the Liquor Act reads in part: pressly excluded from objection. Provided that, upon any application, any objection whatsoever (not being a frivolous or Clause 25 (5) specifies the grounds of vexatious objection) may be taken. objection to an application for authority to That is the provision in the Liquor Act. In move to temporary premises. These grounds effeot, the ground enables objection to be are that the temporary premises are not taken on any ground, not being a frivolous suitable for the club or do not contain ade- or vexatious ground, which appears to the quate sanitary and other conveniences; that Mr Maddison] Registered Clubs Bill [24 FEB., 19761 Registered Clubs Bill 3627 the quiet and the good order of the neigh- objection to applications. These persons are bourhood will be disturbed; that the tem- the district licensing inspedor; the local porary premises are within the immediate government council of the area within which vicinity of a church, school or hospital. the premises or proposed premises are situa- Clause 25 (6) provides that objection to ted; the owner or lessee of any land, or use part or parts of the premises as a dining a person who resides on any land within area or for the purpose of holding a Christ- two kilometres of the premises, if within a mas function for children may be taken on municipality or a city, or within eight kilo- any ground. It is appropriate to point out metres if the premises are elsewhere; and at this stage that clause 26 (2) provides any person who alleges that his interests, that objection in these cases may be taken financial or otherwise, are likely to be only by the district licensing inspector. adversely affected by the grant of the appli- cation. Clause 26 (3) sets out the require- Clause 25 (7) provides grounds of objec- ments with which an objector must comply tion to the holding of a function attended in order for the court to entertain his objec- by persons other than club members; that tion. the portion of the premises where the function is proposed to be held, and access Division 4 of part I1 deals with matters to that portion of the premises, are not of general application to the registration of capable of being physically separated from a club. Clause 27 requires the secretary of any part of the club where liquor is ordin- a club to furnish an annual statement, veri- arily sold and in which poker machines are fied by statutory declaration, setting forth ordinarily kept; that sanitary conveniences particulars in respect of liquor delivered or are not adequate or not suitably located for purchased for the club. Compliance with persons attending the function; and that this provision is essential in order that an there are other premises within a reasonable assessment can be made of the club's annual distance of the club reasonably suitable for renewal fee and for that reason failure to the holding of the function. As is the case comply with the clause attracts the penalty with the matters referred to in clause 25 of a fine not exceeding $1,000. Clause 28 (6), objection may be taken only by the re-enacts in simpler terms the provisions of district licensing inspector. section 34 (1) of the Liquor Act which res- tricts successive applications for registration Clause 25 (8) provides that an objection or conditional registration where previous taken on a ground not specified in the bill like applications in respect of the same pre- shall not be entertained by the court if it mises or proposed premises have been re- considers that the objection is frivolous or fused. Clause 29 authorizes the issue of a vexatious or not a proper ground of objec- duplicate certificate of registration in appro- tion. Clause 25 (9) specifies that where priate circumstances. objection is taken on the ground that any of the requirements of section 10 (1) are not Part I11 deals with the rules of registered or have not been met, the onus of proving clubs. Clause 30 sets out certain rules that that these requirements have been met lies are, by the clause, deemed to be rules of any upon the club, as does the onus of proving registered club. The clause in some respects that the club is required to meet a genuine is comparable with section 135 of the and substantial need where objection is Liquor Act. That section provides that in taken on that ground. In all other instances order that any club may be eligible to be where objection is taken, the onus of estab- registered, the rules of the club shall pro- lishing the ground of objection lies on the vide the matters prescribed by the section. objector. Rather than set out comprehensively the rules listed in clause 30, many of which are Clause 26 specifies the persons entitled in basically the same terms as those used in to object to the various applications referred #the existing legislation, I shall deal with to in divisions 1 and 2 and these are basi- certain of them, including those ithat intro- cally the same persons who might, pursuant duce new matter, and those that depart in to section 141 of the Liquor Act, take substaace from .the present situation. 3628 Registered Clubs Bill [ASSE MBLY] Registered Clubs Bill

Clause 30 (l) (a) will deem it to be a rule Clause 30 (1) (d) will make the rule that the governing body of the club respon- that proxy voting will not be permitted at sible for the management of the business a general meeting unless the rules of a and affairs of the club shall be elected club so provide; and that both the donor annually at an election at which the mem- and the donee of the proxy are persons en- bers entitled to vote consist only of such titled under the rules to vote at the meeting number of members, being full members in their own right. Clause 30 (1) (e) also of the club, as comprises not less than a deals with proxy voting and provides that majority of the full members of the club. a person shall not attend and vote at a The comparable provision under the Liquor ge~eralmeeting as the proxy of more than Act is section 135 (1) (a), which is in the three persons, or attend and vote at any following terms: meeting of the governing body or any com- . . . the business and affairs of the club shall mittee of the club as the proxy of more than be under the management of a committee one person. elected annually by the general body of mem- bers. Clause 30 (2) (f), (g) and (h) refer to persons under the age of 18 years. Hon- Over the years the courts have interpreted ourable members will observe that the bill the words "general body of members" in will remove the existing restrictions on per- section 135 (1) (a) to mean "the majority sons over 18 and under 21 years of age. of members" with the resultant position At the present time these persons may be today that more than one-half of the total admitted to club membership but, except membership of a club must be entitled to those who have served overseas with Aus- vote for the election of the committee. tralian armed forces, cannot play poker Clause 30 (l) (a) will give effect to the machines or propose or second the nomina- courts' interpretation. tion for membership of another person. In Concern has been expressed in various keeping with action taken to lower the age quarters that the clause will require actual of majority from 21 to 18 years, the bill voting by not less than a majority of mem- will remove each of the existing restrictions bers, and that it will confer voting rights in respect of club membership. It will still be open to individual clubs to impose a on persons not presently entitled to vote higher age restriction than 18 years, or for under the rules of a club. I wish to make it that matter any other restriction, as they quite clear that neither of those matters is see fit. intended by the proposed legislation. The Paragraphs (i), (j) and (k) of clause clause has been carefully considered to en- 30 (2) will require the keeping of a regis- sure that it will have the meaning and effect ter of members, a register of honorary or intended-that is, that it will require election temporary members, and a register of per- of the governing body of a club from an sons who enter the premises of a club as electorate of which not less than a majority guests of members, respectively. The first are entitled to vote-not that they in fact two of these three registers are required to be kept under the existing legislation. The vote, but that they are entitled to vote. keeping of a register of guests or visitors, Clause 30 (1) (b) will remove an anom- though not novel as a matter of practice in aly that has existed for many years, namely, many clubs, is novel to the extent that to date the keeping of such a register has not that a person who was not a member of a been mandatory, except where it is required club might hold office as a member of the under the rules d a club. governing body of a club. Clause 30 (1) (c) does not depart substantially from the There can be no doubt that a significantly existing provisions of section 135 (1) (b) large number of clubs are inviting and re- of the Liquor Act other than to require ceiving into their premises persons who have that meetings of the governing body be no entitlement under the existing legislation, held monthly, instead of periodically. or under their rules, to be there. It is clear Mr Mddimn] Registered Clubs Bill 124 FEB.,19761 Registered Clubs Bill 3629 that these clubs are in breach of the law. Let me make it clear that the proposed It is, however, equally clear that it is diffi- amendments relating to members d one cult, in most cases, and impossible in some club visiting another club in order to take to enforce sanctions against these breaches. part in a sporting event are consequent upon the practical difficulties that have been The intention d the provisions of the bill put to us by the Royal Bowling Association in respeot of the keeping of registers is to of New South Wales and the Gdbg Asso- ensure that at any given time the only ciation of New South Wales, the represen- persons entitled to be on club premises will tatives of which have made clear to me and be those who can be identified as elected my depantmental officers that there would members, as shown in the register of mem- be great difficulty unless the Government bers; an honorary or temporary member were to make some such provision as we whose particulars appear in the register of propose to make in the Committee stage in honorary or temporary members; or a guest order to acmmodate sporting teams from of a member, being a person who is on the one club visiting another club. club uremises at the invitation of a member. and &hose name and address is entered The rules set out in clause 30 (1) and the register of guests together with the signa- (2) will take effect notwithstanding the pro- ture of the inviting member. vision of any other law, except as provided in the clause. Where any d these rules is Consequent upon representations received inconsistent with a rule of the club, the since the bill was introduced, the Govern- clause 30 rules will apply other than in ment is now d the view that to require respect of the matters set out in clause 30 members of one clubvisiting another club (9). On the question d inconsistency, most for the purpose d (takingpart in a spolrting clubs will find that their existing rules sub- game or event to have their particulars en- stantially accord with those set out in the tered in either the register of guests or clause. However, where this is not the case, register of honorary or temporary members it will not be necessary for a club to under- would be unduly restriative. For that reason, take immediately the detailed and sometimes at the Conmittee stage, I shall move for the expensive operation of amending its rules. amendment CAclause 30, with consequential I anticipate that most clubs would, over a amendments, to provide that unless a club period d time, wish to amend rules to re- makes a rule to the contrary-and, of move doubt or question by members as to course, it is perfectly within the power of a club to make a rule to the contrary---such whether a particular rule was one which was persons will, for the duration of the day of inconsistent with the proposed statutory their visit, be deemed to be temporary provisions. members. Clause 3 1 specifies the three registers that As I indicated earlier, strong opposition to are to be required to be kept under the the keeping of a register of guests has been deemed rules. As I pointed out earlier, two expressed by the Registered Clubs Associa- of these are presently kept in accordance tion and other representative organizations, with the Liquor Act and the third is in and individual clubs. The Government fully respect of a register d guests. It should be appreciates the point they make that it will noted that clause 31 (2) does not require be difEcult to comply with the requirement. multiple entries in the guests' register where However, despite the difticulty, I am firmly a guest subsequently re-enters the premises of the view that unless steps, are taken by on the same day as the guest d the same dubs to preserve the basic principle that the member. use and enjoyment of club premises is for the benefit of club members and their in- Part IV deals with the management of vited guests, the principles of club regis~tra- registered clubs, and contains to a large ex- tion as we now accept them will need to be tent new matter not presently provided for re-assessed and revised. under the Liquor Act. Clause 32 provides 3630 Registered Clubs Bill [ASSEMBLY] Registered Clubs Bill that a club shall have one, but not more Clause 36 provides that the licensing court than one, secretary. The need for the pro- as part of its determination of an applica- vision becomes obvious when regard is had tion for renewal of registration where ob- to the responsibilities which the existing jection is taken on the ground of miscon- legislation as well as the bill attach to the duct of the last previous election of the office of secretary of a registered club. In governing body; or upon a complaint for addition, clause 33 makes provision for an cancellation; or upon application by a speci- application to the court for approval to act fied number of members, may order that the as the secretary of a registered club. The next election of the governing body be con- application is open to objection by the dis- ducted by the Electoral Commissioner. trict licensing inspector on the ground that Honourable members will recall that from the person applying is not a fit and proper time to time allegations are made that the person to act as secretary. election of the committee of a club has been improperly conducted. In particular Clause 34 (2) provides a penalty against Mr Justice Mofitt in the Royal commission 2ny person, not approved under clause 33, into the allegations of organized crime in who acts as the secretary of a club, or is registered clubs drew attention to the oppor- appointed by a club as its secretary. How- tunity he saw to exist for committeemen, ever, clause 34 (2),which will be the sub- once entrenched in coffee, to remain in ject of a minor amendment that I shall move office by rigging club elections. There was later to make the intention of the provision also the controversy surrounding two elec- clearer, allows a person to act as secre- tions at the South Sydney Rugby Leagues tary for two months, or such further period Club when the first election was declared as the court allows, provided his name and void by the Equity Court and the second address is notified to the clerk of the court was the subject of litigation in the same within seven days of the club appointing jurisdiction. him to act as secretary. I wish to make it quite clear that I do not accept that there is widespread mal- Under the existing legislation no check is practice in the conduct of club elections. I made as to the fitness or otherwise of a do, however, consider that there is a need club secretary prior to his appointment. It for official supervision of elections in cer- is an unfortunate fact that in the past per- tain circumstances. These circumstances in sons of dishonest intentions have acted as my view should be when the licensing court, secretaries of clubs. In keeping with the in determining an objection to renewal based on an improperly conducted election, or in Government's intention to upgrade the stan- hearing a complaint for cancellation, is of dard of management of clubs, and in the the view that the next election should be interest of clubs generally, it is considered supervised. In the case of a complaint for that the person who holds the office of cancellation, power to order supervision is secretary of a club should be subjected to restricted to instances where notice is given scrutiny by the licensing authorities prior to the club that such an order will be to his appointment. sought. It is also important in my view, that where a sufficiently large number of Clause 35 is not substantially new matter, elected members of the club are of the but rather carries over the provisions of sec- view that the last elections were improperly conducted, an order for a supervised elec- tion 148~of the Liquor Act, with the added tion should be made. element that, as well as a complaint for the removal of a member of the governing Under section 137 of the Companies Act, body, complaint is also available to call 10 per cent or 200. members, whichever is less, are entitled to requisition an extraordin- upon the secretary of a club to show cause ary general meeting of a comany. It is con- why he should not be removed on the sidered that a similar percentage or num- ground that he is not a fit and proper per- ber of full members of a club is an appro- son to hold the position. priate number to apply for an order for a Mr Maddison] Registered Clubs Bill 124 FEB., 19761 Registered Clubs Bill 3631 supervised ballot. That a number or per- Mr MADDISON: I hasten to correct my- centage of members of that order is pre- self in regard to the matter to which my pared to requisition a supervised ballot, evi- attention has been invited by the honour- dences concern in the club that the last able member for Phillip. My reference election was not properly conducted, or that should have been to the South Sydney the forthcoming election may not be Junior Rugby League Club, in respect of properly conducted. which litigation took place concerning alleged improprieties in the ballot. There- Mr HILLS: On a point of order. A few fore, let there be no misunderstanding, that moments ago the Minister referred to the I cast no reflections on the South Sydney South Sydney Leagues Club, and I am sure Leagues Club. Before the honourable mem- that he meant the South Sydney Junior ber for Phillip raised this matter I was Rugby League Club. I wonder whether the referring to requisitions for supervised Minister might correct it. ballots. In the cases where a supervised Mr SPEAKER:Order! The honourable eleation is ordered upon the request of the member for Phillip knows that is not a point prescribed number or percentage of mem- of order. bers, it is not proposed to allow room for protracted litigation, either in the licensing Mr HILLS: But, Mr Speaker- court or in any appellate jurisdiction. It is Mr SPEAKER: Order! The honourable for ithat reason thd clause 36 (4) deems member knows full well that that is nolt a such an application to be a valid application point of order, and that ithis is no occasion unless the court is satisfied that it was not for debate. made by the appropriate number of mem- bers; or that the request was not signed by Mr HILLS: Mr Speaker, I appreciate yow at least the appropriate number of members ruling, but I am sure that you would be and their names are not shown thereon; or anxious to proteot the rights of members of that the club was ndgiven twenty-one days notice of intention to make thehi application. clubs, by ensuring that there be no sug- Further, clause 36 (6) pro bits appeal gestion of impropriety of the directors of against the snaking of the order. one club as against another one. What I am seeking is to suggest that the Minister The reasons for the provisions against protracted litigation are simply that where a might wish to reotify his statement. significant number of members seek a super- Mr SPEAKER:Order! The honourable vised election, the club as a whole doesAnot member must recognize that if that point is stand to lose financially or otherwise by having the election, which it must hold, to be made, it has to be made as the debate supervised by the Electoral Commissioner. progresses, and cannot be raised as a point The position is clearly distinguishable from of order. an order made by the court ancillary to other proceedings, where it is proper that Mr MAHONEY: On a point of order on if appeal lies against the substantive pro- the same matter, Mr Speaker. I suggest that ceedings, so also should appeal lie against the point raised by the honourable member the order. for Phillip could be damaging to an outside Clause 37 relating to lodgment of body. Consequently, I suggest that the financial documents is not completely new. Minister might take the opportunity to cor- Section 137 (2) of the Act requires the rect his statement, if it is wrong. secretary of a club to lodge with an appli- cation for renewal of a certificate of regis- Mr SPEAKER: Order! The point of fact tration a copy of the duly audited profit and raised by the honourable member for Parra- loss account and balance sheet which was matta might be extremely interesting, and if presented to the last preceding annual meet- the Minister wishes to comment upon it I ing of the club. The effect of this require- am sure he will. ment is that shortly before the end of 3632 Registered Clubs Bill [ASSE:MBLY] Registered Clubs Bill

June each year when all certificates fall due activities of a club. In fact most properly for renewal, the licensing authorities are conducted clubs have prepared such state- inundated with applications for renewal ments monthly for the information of their accompanied by the required financial docu- committees. ments. Some of these documents may relate Clause 41 deals with the situation where a to annual meetings held up to almost 12 club is placed under official management or months before. In these circumstances the licensing authorities have little opportunity receivership or goes into liquidation. The to examine the documents with a view to clause is necessary to vest the powers of considering whether any matter therein the governing body of a club in an appro- warrants investigation. priate person appointed by the Supreme Court, or approved by the licensing court. The purpose behind clause 37 is to ensure Speaking generally to the management pro- that the relevant financial documents are visions of the bill, it is my understanding received at times reasonably proximate to from discussions I have had with the Regis- annual meetings throughout the year. Clause tered Clubs Association and other interested 38 will require the relevant financial docu- groups that these are largely welcomed by ments to be in a form that may be pre- clubs. It is my firm belief that most clubs scribed. The need for this provision Aows will not find great difficulty in complying from the possibility that some clubs are not with these provisions. In respect of those setting forth particulars that fully disclose who do find difficulty, perhaps one might the financial affairs of the club. comment that to date these clubs have not been following proper standards of internal Clause 39 will supplement the provisions management and control. The degree of of section 123 (1) of the Companies Act importance that the Government attaches to and section 84~~(1) of the Co-operation compliance with the management provisions Act as to disclosure of interests of members is evidenced by the reasonably heavy penal- of governing bodies in contracts with their ties attached to breaches. It is hoped that clubs. This clause will require exhibition these substantial penalties will be suficient of particulars of a declaration of interest to attract compliance with provisions that in within 48 hours of the declaration in a the long run stand to benefit all clubs. conspicuous position on the club premises for a period of not less than 14 days; Part V of the bill sets out the provisions and within one month of its annual general for appeals against adjudjcations of the meeting copies of the exhibited declaration licensing court in the various proceedings are to be forwarded to the clerk of the provided for under the bill. Clause 42 (1) licensing court. Clause 40 will require a will provide for a right of appeal from registered club to cause to be prepared and the decision of a licensing court in an submitted to the governing body at quarterly application for renewal of registration, intervals a statement in relation to the club's a complaint for cancell3tion of regis- income and expenditure, and to cause a tration, an application for approval of a copy of that statement and any resolution secretary and a complaint for removal of a of the governing body in relation to that member of the governing body or a secre- statement to be exhibited continuously in tary-to the District Court on fact and to the club for not less than 14 days. Clause the Supreme Court on a point of law. Clause 40 (2) will provide that the form of the 42 (2) will provide for a right of appeal statement may be prescribed by regulation. against the decision of a single licensing magistrate to the full bench of licensing Some clubs have expressed concern that magistrates in all adjudications other than the preparation of the statement will involve those referred to in clause 42 (1) or in them in considerable expense in account- proceedings for an offence. ancy and audit fees. I point out that it is not intended or required that the statement As provided in clause 42 (4) no appeal be certified by an auditor. The intention is will lie from the decision of the full licens- to have a clear statement of the trading ing bench in respect of its decision made Mr Maddison] Registered Clubs Bill [24 FEE Registered Clubs Bill 3633 in an appeal under clause 42 (2) other on the defined premises of the club with a than as provided in clause 42 (5). That penalty not exceeding $500 attached thereto. clause authorizes appeals to the Supreme Clause 44 (2) creates basically the same Court on a point of law in respect of offence by a person authorized by the club. adjudications of a single licensing magis- Clause 45 (1) prohibits the use of any of trate, other than in respect of clause 42 (1) the accommodation, facilities or amenities matters, and in respect of adjudications of provided on the premises of a club by any the full bench of licensing magistrates in person who is not a member, or the guest the cases referred to in clause 42 (2). Pro- of a member as recorded in the register of ceedings for offences arising under the bill guests. Commission of the offence attracts are by clause 65 deemed to be summary a fine not exceeding $200 against the per- proceedings before justices and the right son, the registered club and the secretary of of appeal to the District Court or the the club. Supreme Court is preserved in these cases Clause 45 (2) provides a defence to the by clause 42 (6). registered club and the secretary that all Shortly, the effect of the foregoing is to reasonable steps were taken to prevent un- restrict appeals to the District Court on authorized persons using the premises. fact in cases other than those referred to Clause 46 prohibits a person from carrying in clause 42 (1). In all other cases, other away liquor from club premises other than than proceedings for offences, appeal on on days and during the standard hours of fact against the decision of a single licensing general hotel trading. Clause 47 makes the magistrate is limited to an appeal to the registered club and the secretary of the club full bench of licensing magistrates. In liable for certain breaches of the rules of a respect of all adjudications of the licensing club. A breach of a rule referred to in court, single magistrates and benches of clause 30 (1) attracts a penalty against the magistrates alike, appeal on law to the club, and a breach of a rule referred to in Supreme Court is available. clause 30 (2) attracts a penalty against both the club and the secretary. There is a substantial departure from the existing provisions of the Liquor Act in Exception is made in respect of the rules that appeal to the District Court on fact is under clause 30 (2) (g) and (h), each of now available in respect of all adjudications which relate to under-age drinking and play- of the licensing court other than an applica- ing of poker machines. These matters are tion or conditional application for the grant dealt with under clause 51. Clause 48 or removal of a certificate of registration of requires a club to notify change of name a club. In these cases appeal from a single within one month, and clause 49 requires magistrate to the bench of magistrates is notification of change of rules. Clause 50 available. It is considered, having regard to prohibits the sale of liquor to persons in a better utilization of judicial resources and respect of whom a prohibition order has the added expense of litigation in the Dis- been made under section 54 of the Liquor trict Court, that appeals other than in Act, to intoxicated persons or to persons respect of the matters referred to in clause under the age of 18 years. In addition, 42 (1) can be more appropriately heard in prohibited persons and persons under the the licensing jurisdiction by the bench of age of 18 years must be removed from any magistrates. bar of the club. Again, breach of this pro- vision will render both the secretary and the Part V1 of the bill deals with offences in club liable to a penalty. relation to clubs. Clause 42 contains the definition of bar for the purposes of inter- Clause 50 (3) provides the defence to a prosecution under the clause that sale or pretation of Part VI, and that definition is supply of liquor was made in a case of substantially the same as the one already accident or sickness, or that it was not provided under the legislation. Clause 44 known or could not reasonably have been (1) creates the offence of a registered club known that the person was a prohibited supplying or disposing of liquor other than person. Clause 51 deals with under-age 228 3634 Registered Clubs Bill [ASSEMBLY] Registered Clubs Bill drinking and playing of poker machines club should not be in a position to pass all and provides a penalty of $100 against the liability for the commission of an offence under-age person. Similarly, clause 52 pro- to the secretary. At the same time, where hibits a person under the age of 18 years dual liability is attached to an offence, or is a prohibited person from entering or responsibility should attach to the secretary. being in a bar. Clause 53 creates the offence of sending a person under the age Clause 47, as to breaches of the rules of of l8 years on to the premises of a regis- a club, calls for comment. Experience has tered club for the purpose of obtaining shown that under the existing legislation liquor. where a breach of the rules of a club is detected the only avenue open to a licensing Clause 54 will create an offence by the inspector is to move for cancellation of secretary and the club if a poker machine registration, or to object to renewal of is located in a dining area, or dining room, registration. On an objection to renewal the or a part of the premises giving access court can only grant or refuse the applica- thereto, at a time when a person under the tion. The conduct which gave rise to objec- age of 18 years is in the dining room, tion by its gravity may call for a penalty dining area, or access area. Clause 55 pro- short of ref~~sal,but there is no provision for hibits the wilful making of any statement the imposition of such a penalty. Though that is false or misleading in a material in respect of a complaint for cancellation respect in any application or other instru- the court is empowered to impose a fine, ment lodged with the clerk of the licensing the possibility of cancellation of registration court. Clause 56 provides a defence to a is strong enough to require a club to resist prosecution of the secretary of a registered the complaint to the f~~llestextent. The club for an offence arising under any pro- creation of an offence for a breach of rules vision of the bill that he did not know and wilI remove the need for a club to mount could not reasonably have known that the an extensive, and thus expensive, defence to offence was being committed; or that he a complaint for cancellation or an objec- used all due diligence to prevent the com- tion to renewal of registration. mission of the offence. Clause 57 provides Part V11 confers powers of entry and in- reasonable belief that a person was over spection on district licensing inspectors and the age of 18 years as a defence to a inspectors. By reference to clause 4 (2) (f) prosecution based on the allegation that the the term district inspector means a district person was under that age. inspector appointed under the Liquor Act. Speaking generally as to the offences and Clause 4 also defines an inspector to mean a the penalties provided in part V and in person appointed under section 121~of the other parts of the bill, it is appreciated that Liquor Act. Clause 58 (1) will empower most of them are substantially in excess of a district inspector to enter and examine those provided for in comparable provisions club premises at any time; to take an of the Liquor Act. In this regard it is account of liquor in premises; and to make pointed out that the penalties under the examinations and inquiries necessary to Liquor Act were last generally reviewed in ascertain whether the provisions of the bill 1969, and it is obvious that a further review are being complied with. CIause 58 (2) is now needed. As to the cases where a authorizes an inspector to enter the premises registered club and the secretary are made at any reasonable time; to require the pro- separately liable for the same offence, it is duction of registers, books, records and considered that the conduct sought to be documents; and to make copies of or take struck down by the relevant clauses extracts from such registers, books, records attaches liability both to the club and the and documents. Clause 58 (3) prohibits secretary. This position is, of course, any person from wilfuIly delaying or ob- clearly distinguishabIe from the situation structing a district inspector or an inspector under the Liquor Act where in respect of exercising the powers under subclauses (1) the offences thereunder the secretary is and (2) and in addition, makes it an made singly responsible for breaches. A offence for a member of the governing body Mr Meddison] Registered Clubs Bill [24 FEB., 19761 Registered Clubs Bill 3635 or of any committee of the club, or the a member of the police force, to demand the secretary, or an employee, to refuse to per- correct name, age and address of any person mit or to assist the exercise of those powers. in a bar of the club or playing poker machines, if that person is suspected of be- Clause 59 (1) authorizes entry on to club ing under the age of 18 years. Similarly, premises by a member of the police force of clause 67 (2) authorizes the same demand or above the rank of sergeant, or by any as to the correct name and address of any other member of the police force authorized person suspected of not being a member of by a general authority given by the licensing the club or a guest of a member. In addi- court, or authorized in writing in a particu- tion clause 67 (4) requires a person upon lar case by a licensing magistrate, a justice, whom a demand is made for particulars, to or a member of the police above the rank of furnish evidence of the correctness of those sergeant. The power is exercisable where particulars, if the person making the demand the member of the police force suspects, on believes on reasonable grounds that the par- reasonable grounds, that unlawful or dis- ticulars already given are false. This clause orderly conduct is being carried on, or that makes it an offence for any person upon any offence arising under the bill is being whom a demand is made to refuse to state committed. Clause 59 (2) makes it an his correct age, name and address, or, with- offence for any person to refuse to admit out reasonable cause to ref~~seor fail to or wilfully delay or obstruct admittance to produce evidence of those particulars. the premises. The powers of entry and in- spection are substantially the same as those Basically clauses 69 and 70 reproduce provided in part V111 of the Liquor Act provisions of the Liquor Act providing for which applies to clubs. The substantial returns to be furnished by persons who penalties provided under the bill for non supply liquor to clubs and the maintenance compliance with these provisions are in of records by a club in relation to the sale keeping with the policy implicit in this legis- and disposal of liquor. Clause 71 provides lation of bringing the internal management, the mode of service of documents on a club. control and conduct of a registered club Later I shall move an amendment to the under closer scrutiny by the licensing clause to provide a mode of service more authorities. appropriate to clubs. The amendment, if accepted, will result in service of a docu- Part V111 deals with legal proceedings ment by leaving it with the secretary or a under the bill and I feel that it does not call member of the governing body or com- for detailed explanation. This part touches mittee of the club or a person employed on such matters as the discretionary power by the club. There will be no reference in of the licensing court to disregard omissions the clause to service on a person over the and errors of a procedural nature in notices age of 18 years, Clause 72 virtually re- and instruments necessary in proceedings enacts section 168 (4) of the Liquor Act before the court. Clause 62 makes provision as to the Newcastle International Sports as to costs in application and in complaints Centre Club, and also takes in the Sydney for cancellation. Clause 62 (4) provides Cricket Ground Club both of which have that where an amount of costs awarded features of obvious differences from the against a registered club remains unpaid other clubs. The clause empowers the Gov- beyond the time within which payment is ernor to sanction and authorize the issue of ordered to be made the certificate of regis- a certificate of registration subject to such tration of the club shall be deemed to be conditions as he sees fit to impose and sub- not in force. iect to exemution from the provisions of the The last part of the bill, part IX, touches bill. clauseL73 as to the regulation power won various miscellaneous matters. Again is self explanatory. dktailed explanation of these does -not appear to be necessary other than a com- Schedule 1 of the bill sets out amend- ment upon clause 67. Clause 67 (2) ments to the Liquor Act, 191% and the authorizes a member of the governing body Gaming and Betting Act, 1912, consequen- of a club, or an employee of the club, or tial upon the provisions of the bill. I invite 3636 Registered Clubs Bill [ASSEMBLY] Registered Clubs Bill particular attention to the amendment of club movement as a result of the operation section 43 (1) of the Liquor Act which in of legislation. He dealt almost clause by effect exempts from the offence of selling clause with the measure and sought to give liquor without a licence, sales made on the the House a view of its aims. As the Minis- premises of a registered club on behalf of ter intimated at the end of his second- and with the authority of the club. Sched- reading speech, it remains to be seen how ule 2 provides somewhat lengthy transitional the proposed Act will be administered and provisions seen as essential to effect the how it will be interpreted by the courts. All transition of the administration and opera- honourable members know that there is tion of registered clubs from part X of the many a slip between the cup and the lip Liquor Act to the Registered Clubs Bill. and this maxim applies when one considers what a legislator intends legislation to por- Mr Speaker, the bill before the House is tray and what it is finally determined to a lengthy and complex measure. It would portray when put to the test of interpreta- be idle of me to believe that I have covered tion by the courts. every aspect of the proposed legislation which might be of concern to members. The Opposition supports the bill because I have attempted to outline in some detail of the need to overcome many deficiencies a number of aspects of the bill that seem that have been shown to exist in the regis- to have given concern. I have dealt with tered club movement. However, it con- the structure of the bill so as to make it siders that the Government has not attacked possible for people in charge of clubs, be many areas of concern. One of the prime they directors, secretaries, or secretary- areas would be the operations of poker managers, by looking at this speech, to get machines in clubs. This contention may a feel for this measure, which is by no be answered by saying that poker machines means easy to grasp. Hopefully, what has are covered by legislation that is under the been said in this speech will serve as what jurisdiction of the Minister for Revenue and I might call a reference to which people Assistant Treasurer. Nevertheless, Opposi- associated with the administration of regis- tion members consider that the bill should tered clubs might have regard. have covered all aspects of the registered club movement, of which poker machines As is always the position with new legis- would be the most critical. Mr Justice Mof- lation, there is some apprehension on how fitt, the Royal comissioner who inquired it will be administered by those who will into alleged crime in clubs, was trenchant bear responsibilities under its provisions. I in his criticism that poker machine skim- give the House a firm assurance that a close ming needed to be stopped. Any observer watch will be kept on its operation and of the club movement would know that effect with a view to curing any problems one of the areas of grave concern is the that might arise. Notwithstanding those manner in which poker machine takings, comments, I am satisfied that the bill repre- payments and security are dealt with by sents a major step towards ensuring the some cl~~bs.As the bill seeks to bring many continuance of the registered club move- of the operations of registered clubs under ment in this State on a basis acceptable to one legislative umbrella, the Opposition clubs, club members, and the community as would have liked an attack made on this a whole. I commend the bill to the House. uarticular aspect of clubs' functions and Mr MULOCK (Penrith) 1[9.22]: The administration. Opposition does not oppose the measure. In Committee we will be moving amend- Poker machines give rise to many of the ments to some provisions that we consider problems that confront the sound adminis- call for comment and action. The Minister tration of clubs. Sometimes the honesty of has given a comprehensive outline of the people is questioned, not because they are bill. He traced the legislative history of the dishonest but because of the lack of proper club movement and referred to changes security and as a result of the manner in that have taken place within the registered which they deal with poker machines. Registered Clubs Bill [24 FEB., 19761 Registered Clubs Bill 3637 As a broad proposition, the Opposition At its commencement the club movement contends that consideration might well be was seen as a social operation for the benefit given to taking club licensing operations of members of clubs and their guests, with from the police force. This is not an origin- the members having the destiny of their al view as many people consider that licens- clubs in their own hands. I do not think ing functions would better be left to some- there was anything more accurate in the body other than members of the police Attorney-General's second-reading speech force, which would leave police officers who than that those who first brought in the are trained in law enforcement and the ap- legislation under the Liquor Act that entitled prehension of criminals to fulfil that more registered clubs to have liquor on their vital role. With the growth of the registered premises and those who were responsible for club movement in New South Wales more the poker-machine legislation did not envis- and more police officers have been seconded age the growth of the registered club move- into the field of club licensing. This leaves ment: to the stage that we see today. It is other police activities short of police officers. because of that growth and the failure of Consideration could be given also to estab- the club movement to cope with that growth lishing a commission to look after the regis- that we see an intrusion by government. tered clubs. The commission could be pro- The role of the Government and the vided with the necessary backup resources Opposition in the passage of this type of for the enforcement of the licensing pro- legislation is to make sure that there is a visions by people in its employ. balance between the intrusion of government The Attorney-General mentioned the lack and the rights of members and, through the of expertise of some members of club members, the directors and club manage- boards, with which proposition most hon- ments represented by secretary-managers ourable members would agree. The hearts of who occupy paid positions and are a vital many of these members might be in the right link in the sound administration of clubs. place but they have not the necessary busi- It is arguable whether there is a balance ness acumen to enable them to fulfil the vital between the legislation and the desire of role of director of a licensed registered clubs to maintain the right to control their club. I suggest to the Attorney-General and own destinies, but it would be reasonably the Government that having regard to the fair to say that any legislation of this type huge amount of money involved in the club could be subject to criticism in this regard. movement and the taxation revenue which On balance, the Opposition is of the view comes to the State, it is time the Govem- that the legislation should not be opposed ment did something to provide the necessary but should be critically analysed. That is service for the better education of club the intention of the members of the Opposi- administrators. If appropriate courses were tion. established at colleges of advanced educa- Speaking in a broad context, I point out tion to train not only those who will become that there have been departures from the paid employees such as secretary-managers accepted provisions of the Liquor Act as but also those who will become directors of they apply to registered clubs. Explanations registered clubs one would see a decided for this were given by the Attorney-General improvement in the administration of those in his second-reading speech. Only time will clubs. tell whether those amendments are really of The basic principle of the registered club benefit to the administration of registered clubs and to the legislation applying to regis- movement is for a club to be an amenity tered clubs or whether it would have been for its members and their guests and for a better to rely upon the established terms that club's administration to be vested in people have been subject to scrutiny by the courts chosen by its members. There is a feeling and have a particular meaning assigned to that legislation of such volume as this bill them. I forecast that there will be a deal of brings about more intrusion on the part of testing in the courts of the provisions of this government than has been seen in the past. legislation. Challenges will be made, either 3638 Registered Clubs Bill [ASSEMBLY] Registered Clubs Bill by objectors or by clubs, to interpretations clear and explicit and removes some of the made of the new provisions and that will uncertainty that formerly existed. Clause 5 lead to uncertainty. provides that the licensing court, when granting an application, shall define or pre- As a result of the second-reading speech scribe the premises of the club in respect of at least the Opposition is in a position to which the certificate of its registration is in see the rationale behind alterations to par- force and specify that those premises or ticular provisions that have become accepted such part of those premises as is defined, so as part and parcel of the liquor laws of this described by the determination are or is the State. It is important to note that there are defined premises of the club. There is noth- definitions of full member, honorary mem- ing specific about this in the old Act. By ber and member. These are very much the old Act I mean that part of the Liquor interrelated. The aim is to indicate pri- Act that refers to clubs. It was, however, marily where the voting power for directors quite clear that the plans accompanying the of the club will lie. Clause 4 contains the notice of application referred to the club definitions. Full member was not defined premises and it was the invariable practice in the old Act but a definition was probably of the magistrates to describe those premises inserted in this legislation for the purpose of in the order and usually to outline the area section 11 which has to do with the calcu- to be licensed in red, at the court hearing. lation of the maximum number of full mem- This new vrovision will make it svecificallv bers. Honorary member is defined though mandator; for the premises to be-defined: it was not in the old Act. Section 134 (cl) of the required that a register of Part II deals with the registration of clubs. honorary and temporary members shall be Clause is self-explanatory but the kept on the premises and section 135 word application. It refers to an application (1) (h) provides that no persons shall be for a certificate of registration, and so on. allowed to become honorary or temporary It prescribes that the application be members unless they have certain qualifica- made by delivering the to the tions that are set out. clerk of the licensing court. I foresee some difficulties because the document seems to The bill defines inspector as meaning the be the application whereas under the old district inspector or an inspector appointed Act that document was merely a notice of under section 1214 of the Liquor Act. That application. The application was made to is deficient insofar as it does not say who is the court at the hearing. Honourable mem- an inspector or what an inspector is. In bers should compare section 136 of the old sections 119, 121~and 132 of the Liquor Act with this provision. Clause 8 refers to Act, inspector is more accurately defined. an application for renewal. Again the word The term secretary was defined in the old application is used rather than the words Act as including any officer or other person notice of application. Subclause (2) pro- performing duties of a secretary of a club. vides for the application for the restoration In the bill, secretary is more fully defined. to the club of a certificate of registration It pays regard to the provisions of section where the club is disqualified from holding 33 and the needed before a certificate. The provision appears complex. one acts as secretary of a club. Under the Subclause (2) reads: old Act there was no need to obtain the permission of the court before a person (2) Where- could act as secretary. (a) a club is disqualified from holding a certificate of registration, whether by a In that clause there also appears to be an determination made by the licensing attempt to tidy up the term notice of appli- court or made on an appeal and whether or not the certificate of regis- cation and when an application is deemed tration of the club is continued in to have commenced. Only one word is force by the operation of section 16 used now-application. The application is (4); and deemed to be relevant at the time it is (b) the certificate of registration that was in force in respect of the club immedi- lodged. There is no doubt that that makes it ately before the commencement of Registered Clubs Bill [24 FEB.,19761 Registered Clubs Bill 3639

the period of disqualification would, Clause 25 (9) sets out certain grounds of but for the disqualification and, if objection, the onus of establishing which is applicable, section 16 (4), have ex- pired during that period, on the objector. then, unless the disqualification was im- Clause 10 (1) (e) provides: posed by the licensing court and on appeal no disqualification was imposed on the (e) The club shall be established- club- (i) for social, literary, political, sport- (c) any application for the renewal of the ing or athletic purposes or for any certificate of registration referred to in other lawful purposes . . . . and paragraph (b) shall not be heard and That in many ways follows the existing pro- determined by the licensing court or granted by the clerk of the licensing vision. However, the bill is quite restrictive court; and when the premises are sought to be used for (d) an application for the restoration to special purposes. I shall return to that later. the club of a certificate of registration Subclause (6) of clause 10 provides that a may be made to the licensing court by club does not fail to meet the requirement or on behalf of the club by delivering specified in subsection (1) (i) by reason the application to the clerk of the only that a member of the club derives or licensing court. is entitled to derive any profit, benefit or Subclause (3) of clause 8 provides that advantage from the club that is not offered where- equally to every full member of the club if the conditions set out are fulfilled. This (a) the certificate of registration of a club subclause is a departure from the provision is by section 15 (8), 17 (7) or 62 (4) deemed not to be in force; and in the old Act. Such stipulations are endea- voured to be covered by provision in the (b) that certificate of registration would, but for its being so deemed not to be in memorandum and articles of association force, have expired during the period it rather than by reference to the Act itself. is so deemed not to be in force, The subclause provides that the court shall then- decide the reasonableness of such a private (c) any application for the renewal of that benefit or advantage. Paragraph (b) of sub- certificate of registration shall not be clause (6) provides that a club does not fail heard and determined by the licensing to meet this requirement if- court or granted by the clerk of the licensing court; and The profit, benefit or advantage consists only of a sum of money paid to the member (d) if the amount referred to in section 15 in respect of his services as a member of the (6) (b), 17 (7) of 62 (4), as the case governing body or of any committee of the may be, is duly paid, an appllcatlon for club and that payment has been approved by the restoration to the club of a certifi- a resolution passed at a general meeting on cate of registration may be made to the which the persons entitled to vote are the licensing court by or on behalf of the same as the persons entitled to vote at the club by delivering the application to the annual election of the governing body of the clerk of the licensing court. club. That indicates the difficulties involved in the There could be no objection to this. These legislation and the complexities that appear. were vital areas of concern that arose as a Clause 9 deals with the determination of result of the Royal commission into crime application hearing and determination o~f in clubs. It became apparent from the evid- ence that strictly a director of a club had to applications for, or for renewal of, certifi- disclose an interest. That disclosure of cates of registration. Subclause (2) provides interest did not come to the notice of the that the licensing court shall not grant such members of the club in many instances and an application- it was not to the benefit of the club. There (a) if it is sati~fiedthat- was clear and unequivocal evidence that the (i) an objection to the granting of the amount of remuneration received even by application, taken on a ground the way of corn~etitivequote was far in excess onus of establishing which is placed by section 25 (9) on the objector, of a reasonable amount. This provision is has been sustained . . . . or aimed in two directions. First, it is not 3640 Registered Clubs Bill [ASSEMBLY] Registered Clubs Bill sufficient merely to disclose an interest. It made to the licensing court by or on behalf is necessary for that interest, and the validity of the registered club by delivering the of that interest and transaction, to be sub- application to the clerk of the licensing ject to the concurrence of the court. Second, court. The Attorney-General in his second- any payment made can be made only pur- reading speech said that in many places, suant to a resolution of the members them- especially country areas, public civic facili- selves. We see this provision as tightening ties are lacking. This applies, too, to fast up a situation that has been loose. It is a developing areas. Often clubs in these areas direct result of what transpired at the Royal have been the scene of social functions. commission into crime in clubs. This provision is meant to go further than Paragraph (e) of clause 10 (1) provides having a social function at which people are that a club shall be established for social, signed in as guests of the club for the even- literary, political, sporting or athletic pur- ing. The Opposition believes that the provi- poses or for any other lawful purposes. In sion is too restrictive and that gatherings of clause 23, which relates to functions on club a professional, charitable, political, industrial premises. there are two areas covered. It and community nature should be included in provides: addition to those specified here-of a cultu- (1) An application for an authority- ral, educational, religious or patriotic nature. In many instances professional bodies hold (a) for persons under the age of 18 years to attend functions associated with the dinners of a regular nature in various clubs. celebration of Christmas in a part, Charitable organizations also often hold specified in the application, of the functions of that type. Political, industrial premises of a registered club; or and community service clubs should be able (b) for persons, other than members, to to avail themselves of the benefits of this attend a function of a cultural, educa- tional, religious or patriotic nature in provision. In this way, the members do not a part, specified in the application, of lose control of the situation. They are not the premises of a registered club, in the hands of the directors. The directors may be made to the Iicensing court by or on have to make a decision first and foremost behalf of the registered club by delivering to approach the court for its decision. the application to the clerk of the licensing court. Jf we take the matter further to the point When that provision was inserted in the of whether an application should be made in Liquor Act, the Opposition intimated that every instance, we of the Opposition suggest we on this side felt that it ought not be that if it is in order for a service club to restricted solely to Christmas functions and hold a function on a month-to-month basis, that there might be some other special times then the approval should be given on a during the year when these facilities could month-to-month basis. Finally, we believe be made available to persons under the age that if no objection is lodged by any party of 18 years. We do not depart from that to such an application the matter should be view. We believe clause 23 (1) (a) should determined by administrative act by the be expanded beyond a Christmas function clerk of the licensing court for the district and should incorporate other functions that in which the premises are situated. That is could be subject to determination upon a matter that the Opposition will raise in application to the licensing court. Committee. The Opposition believes that paragraph Clause 25 is an important provision, set- (b) of the same subclause, does not go ting out the grounds upon which objection far enough. It provides that an applica- may be taken. This is a blanket provision tion for an authority for persons other in that it deals with all kinds of objections than members to attend a function of a to an application whereas section 140 of cultural, educational, religious or patriotic the Liquor Act dealt with objections that nature in a part, specified in the application, may be taken to the grant or removal of a of the premises of a registered club may be certificate of registration and section 145 Mr Mulock] Registered Clubs Bill [24 FEB., 19761 Registered Clubs Bill 3641 dealt with objections that could be taken to amenities, recreation and refreshment or for applications for removal. Section 145 of cultural and political activities and to the the Liquor Act made provision that the same objects of the club, the club is not required objection as could be taken under section to meet a genuine and substantial need. In 145 could be taken on an application for other words, this new provision seems to a material alteration, and so on. make it somewhat easier to meet a genuine and substantial need. All the applicant has Clause 25 provides that objection may be to do under this clause is to prove that there taken on certain grounds, the first of which are not existing facilities and social ameni- being that the requirements of clause 10 (1) ties available to meet the purposes of the are not met in relation to the club. Clause club. 10 sets out the requirements in relation to the club and is the equivalent of section 134 If that view is correct, then this provision of the Liquor Act, which provided that no has in the past been one of those almost club shall be or continue to be registered invariably raised, if not by some other party under this part unless all the following con- then by the local licensing inspector. It ditions exist with respect to it. Then it set out could be that the operation of this provision all the conditions. Clause 25 makes provis- may at least make it a little easier for clubs. ion for objection to be taken if all those con- This is a matter I referred to earlier in my ditions in clause 10 (1) are not met. Clause speech when I said that there will be this 10 provides that, for the purposes of clause question of interpretation arising as a result 9, the requirements in relation to a club are of the departure from the established word- as follows and then these are set out. It ing of the Liquor Act. seems that clause 25 (1) (a) is superfluous The Opposition believes that the provi- in the light of the inclusion of all these sion in clause 25 (1) (m) is much too wide. grounds in clause 10 (11. It could well have been left in its original Paragraph (h) of the same subclause form as it appeared in section 140 (1) (m) makes it possible to take objection on the of the Liquor Act. The Opposition will be ground that the application does not comply suggesting this at the relevant stage in Com- in all respects with the requirements of the mittee. Clause 25 (2) (v) sets out that Act and the regulations. This again is a objection may be taken where the club has blanket objection. Paragraph (c) sets out failed to comply with the provisions of clauses 37, 39, 40, 48 and 49, whether or that it is an objection that, having regard not it has been convicted of an offence in to existing facilities and social amenities respect of that failure. The Opposition be- available to meet the purposes of the club, lieves that as a minimum requirement there the club is not required to meet a genuine should have been a conviction for failure and substantial need. The equivalent of this in order to ground an objection. Again, in provision is set out in section 140 (1) (lii) Committee we shall move to that effect. of the Liquor Act and reads as follows: Objection has been expressed by some That having regard to existing facilities for sections of the club movement that this social amenities, recreation and refreshment or for cultural or political activities and to the amounts to a double penalty. If a penalty objects of the club, the club is not required to has been imposed because of a failure to meet a genuine and substantial need. comply with the provisions of clauses 37, The new provision seems to me to mean 39, 40, 48 or 49, and that in itself should be that the applicant must prove that having sufficient and there should not be the double regard to existing facilities and social ameni- penalty of the club being at risk at the time ties available to meet the purposes of the of renewal to an objection being lodged club, the club is required to meet a genuine under this provision. We of the Opposition and sitbstantial need, whereas under the old take a middle ground view that, at least as section the applicant had to prove that a basis for objection to be considered by having regard to the existing facilities, social the court on a renewal application, there 3642 Registered Clubs Bill [ASSEMBLY] Registered Clubs Bill

should have been a conviction for breach of that neither of those purposes was intended the provisions of clauses 37, 39, 40, 48 or by the bill, and that is reasonably clear 49 referred to in clause 25 (2) (v). from a close and lengthy examination of the provision. ~everthe~ess,I think there I turn next to clause 30, which provides is still a possibility that clubs could be con- that the rules of a registered club shall be trolled by a minority of members who deemed to include the rules set out in that qualify as vote-holders. The memorandum clause. Some difficulty of interpretation and articles of association of a club could arises here. The Attorney-General and provide for restricted voting groups to elect Minister of Justice himself commented that directors. On any interpretation, I cannot clause 30 (1) (a) will deem it to be a rule see how anybody could say that the clause that the governing body of a club respons- will require a majority of members entitled ible for the management of the business and to vote to cast a vote. All that it requires affairs of the club shall be elected annually is that there be a majority of voting mem- at an election at which the members entitled bers entitled to vote. to vote consist onlv of such number of full members of the club as comprises not less With regard to the proxy provisions in than the majority of the full members of the measure, the Royal commission high- the club. I think that what is meant there lighted the abuses that have taken place is that the full members of the club who with proxy voting. The proposed limitation have voting rights must equal 50 per cent is that only three proxies may be given by plus one of the full membership. This seems any person who falls into the same category to be aimed at ensuring that a substantial of membership as the proxy givers. Accord- majority of members play a vital role in ing to the Minister, this will inhibit the use determining who will hold the reins of office of proxies, but I believe that only time will of th:.t club for the ensuing year. tell whether people are able to manipulate the provision, with a few active members Perhaps the Attorney-General and Minis- getting their hands on sufficient proxies to ter of Justice will comment in his reply on resist bids for election to office by other the suggestion that that provision does not members. seem to cover the situation where members vote for certain classes of directors for As regards the visitors register, I know whom special provision is made. It could from contacts I have had with members of be that eight directors are elected by 99 the club organization that this matter has per cent of the full members of a club who caused great concern, particularly in bowl- have voting rights and another seven direc- ing and golf clubs. I should think that the tors are elected by one per cent of the amendment foreshadowed by the Attorney- members, or vice versa. There are, of General and Minister of Justice will go a course, clubs that place restrictions upon long way towards removing the concern who is entitled to be a director. There are expressed by registered clubs that are limitations on classes of directors. How- affiliated with bowling and golf. The ever, there could be clubs that make a dis- Opposition looks forward to seeing the tinction between who is entitled to vote for wording of the amendment. My persond different types of directors, and I doubt experience has been that most clubs are whether this clause would eliminate that already keeping a visitors register. I do not practice. know of the experiences of other honour- able members, but apparently as there has The Minister said that concern had been been so much objection to the provision it expressed in various quarters that the clause seems fairly clear that a visitors register is might require voting by not less than a not being kept by many clubs in the form majority of members, and might confer envisaged in the bill. voting rights on persons not presently en- titled to vote under the rules of a club. Debate adjourned on motion by Mr However. he was at pains to make it clear Mulock. Mr Mulock] Adjournment [24 FEB., 19761 Adjournment 3643

ADJOURNMENT them, these people have to look after them- selves. They have to shift patients from FLOODS IN CREEK SYSTEMS hospitals and that type of thing. They are Mr MADDISON (Ku-ring-gai) , Attorney- involved in desperate circumstances. General and Minister of Justice [10.10]: I move: It is difficult to convey to people outside the area just what damage is done by these That this House do now adjourn. floods. I am taking this opportunity to Mr TAYLOR (Temora) [10.10]: I take describe to honourable members how the this first opportunity I have had to raise a flood waters spread across the areas covered matter concerning floods that occurred in by creek systems. The flood started from my area earlier this month. I emphasize that I the back of the village of Trundle and wish to mention special flood circumstances, spread down for probably twenty or thirty and do not seek in any way to give the miles, clearing out everything in front of impression that I am not deeply concerned it; it knocked down fences, piggeries and about the suffering of people in the north- other establishments, and passed through a western parts of New South Wales who are number of homes. This creek system is at present experiencing the worst floods in not normally involved in floods, and any the history of their areas. I only hope that action that had to be taken had to be some of the rain in the country does not organized and put into effect by the local worsen that unfortunate flood situation; in- people, simply because the emergency flood deed, I take this opportunity of expressing organization on the rivers is not geared to sympathy to the people who are involved cope with this problem. along the flooded river systems of north- western New South Wales. Although I realize it is not the Minister's direct responsibility, I must mention also The particular flood problem about which the sort of flood relief that these people I wish to speak has occurred in my elec- should be receiving. On main rivers such torate in the creek system and not on the as the Lachlan or the Murrumbidgee, floods river system. Indeed, the rivers in my area are a recognized feature. People receive have not flooded as a result of the recent early warnings of the approach of the flood rainfall, yet the village of Trundle, which is waters, and are given some chance to plan under the influence of the creek system, has and to protect their property. Also, they been so badly affected by a flash flood that automatically come under any flood relief it has been necessary to move eight or nine and other help that is available. However, patients from the district hospital to safer in areas affected by creek systems this does accommodation. This particular flood not apply; there is no organization to give affected not only the people of that village warning of what is likely to happen. 1 but also the residents of a number of other suppose all sorts of theories could be villages and small settlements. advanced for the severity of this flood, but If one were to see this country in normal the main and obvious reason was the amount circumstances, one would never imagine that of rain that fell in a certain time. Things these floods would be possible. The area have changed, but I shall not enter into is away from the river system to which the arguments such as the build-up of the creek system leads, but when floods occur railway line and other factors that coulcf the organization to deal with floods along have infl~~encedthe situation. At the same time, the local people are concerned. At the rivers does not extend to assist the the entrance of one property in flat country people to whom I refer. A serious situtaion I saw water 9 feet deep; it was flowing is created by these circumstances. Serious over the gateway and over the railway line, losses of property occur when water passes which aIso was washed out. The flood through homes in the farms and villages, waters took away a considerable amount of but because they are not on a major river fencing, and when I was there it was almost system and the relief organization on the impossible to say how much stock had been river system is not geared to look after lost. 3644 Adjournment [ASSEMBLY] Adjournment I raise this terrible problem tonight to member for Temora has had to say about a emphasize the fact that, somehow or other, certain aspect of the terrible flood disaster our emergency organizations have to be that this State has been experiencing. One spread out into the creek systems so that has to start with a frank and simple acknow- the residents of these areas can be warned ledgment of the magnificent work being of possible danger from floods. I have done by the State Emergency Services. I do known most of the residents of the area of not think that work has yet been properly which I speak for many years. I am con- acknowledged. About 99 per cent of the fident that most of the people who have organization are volunteers. The head office been washed out and lost their fences and staff and other permanent staff-that one other possessions will return to their prop- per cent of the organization's numbers- erties and replace the things that have been play an absolutely essential role in the destroyed. It is extremely difficult to con- organization of the whole of its efforts. This vince people that these areas need some body of volunteers has worked unstintingly, form of protection by some organization so at times for twenty-four hours a day, over that the residents can be aware of what can the past month, handling the job of saving be done for them. At this time, when so livestock and property throughout the flood many other places are desperately fighting area extending from Broken Hill to the floods, it is easy to overlook the cause of coast which spreads out in places for some the people about whom I am concerned. hundreds of miles, rather like an ocean. The problems that these people face are Recently I paid a couple of visits to this always in the forefront of my mind. area and I flew over these parts and landed in the various centres. When flying over Although there are resources available to these areas it seemed as if one were flying assist a great many victims of these disas- over an ocean. ters, the same sort of assistance is not avail- able to an individual whose home may be The crop loss, the danger to life, power burnt down or washed away by flood. I am line damage, damage to highways, houses concerned to see that some form of assist- and stock was a terrible sight. The State ance is provided to assist the people who are Emergency Services-the main frontline affected by disasters along these creek sys- body-was doing the emergency salvaging tems, particularly in areas that are affected operation. However, having paid a proper by a number of creeks. For about 90 per and unreserved tribute to this magnificent cent of the year these creeks are dry, organization, it is reasonable to acknowledge but when a great mass of water comes down the weakness in the whole system to which the creeks and converges on a gap in the the honourable member for Temora has hills or at some other point a serious prob- drawn attention. The State Emergency Ser- lem is created. My purpose tonight is to vices is doing its job in relation to the amphasize the fact that many of these massive river floods, but the organization people, all of whom are my constituents and needs to spread more into the creek system my friends, have been seriously affected by that the honourable member has described. these floods. I believe that the present The Royal Australian Air Force, the army, emergency organization needs to be updated the police, the fire brigade, the council or its operations extended so that these organizations and the volunteers are all people have the same benefit of being geared for the big work that has to be done warned of impending floods as residents in the river flood areas. This work is being- near the major river systems throughout the done in a way that is a model not only to State. ask the Chief Secretary to give I the other States-that has been acknow- consideration to these matters. ledged-but also probably a model to the Mr COLEMAN (Fuller), Chief Secre- world. But, the creek system, as the honour- tary [10.17]: I have listened with a great able member has demonstrated, has been deal of interest to what the honourable neglected. Adjournment [24 FEB., 19761 Questions upon Notice 3645 I shall certainly take careful note of what for major disasters is spread to take into has been said. I will discuss it soon with account problems with relation to creek the director of the State Emergency Services systems. I thank the honourable member and bring it up before the Natural Disasters for Temora for raising in this House, which Committee, which is the standing committee is the appropriate place, this most important of Cabinet under the chairmanship of the matter. Deputy Premier, Minister for Public Works and Minister for Ports, with a view to Motion agreed to. seeing that the great system we have evolved House adjourned at 10.22 p.m.

QUESTIONS UPON NOTICE

The following questions upon notice and answers were circulated in Questions and Answers this day.

DEVELOPMENT COSTS, SYDNEY METROPOLITAN AREA

Mr DAY asked the DEPUTY PREMIER, MINISTER FOR LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND MINISTER FOR TOURISM- What is the average capital cost to provide the following services in the developing outer areas of the Sydney Metropolitan area- (a) Street Construction (per household block), including necessary land acquisition? (b) Kerbing and Guttering (per household block)? (c) Electricity Supply (per household block)?

Answer- The information sought by the Honourable Member is not available within the offices of the Department of Local Government or the New South Wales Planning and Environment Commission and it would be a lengthy and expensive task to obtain and collate the particulars necessary to give the information desired. It is not felt that the effort required would be warranted. It might be observed that some of the basic data needed may not be available to public authorities. 3646 Questions upon Notice [ASSEMBLY] Questions upon Notice DEVELOPMENT COSTS, COUNTRY AREAS

Mr DAY asked the DEPUTY PREMIER, MINISTER FOR LOCALG OVERNMENT AND MINISTER FOR TOURISM- What are the comparative capital costs of providing the following services for the new residential areas of Wagga Wagga, Casino and Queanbeyan- (a) Street Construction (per household block), including necessary land acquisition? (b) Kerbing and Guttering (per household block)? (c) Water Supply (per household block)? (d) Sewerage (per household block)? (e) Electricity Supply (per household block)? (f) Average cost per hectare for fully serviced land used for public purposes such as parks, parking areas, schools and hospitals?

Answer- The information sought by the Honourable Member is not available within the offices of the Department of Local Government or the New South Wales Planning and Environment Commission and it would be a task of some magnitude to obtain and collate the particulars necessary to give the information desired. It is not felt that the effort required would be warranted. It might be observed that some of the basic data needed may not be available to public authorities.

PRE-SCHOOL KINDERGARTENS IN DRUMMOYNE ELECTORATE

Mr MAHER asked the MINISTER FOR YOUTH, ETHNIC AND COMMUNITY AFFAIRS-

(1) What is the estimated number of children aged three years and four years within the Drummoyne Electorate eligible for enrolment in a pre-school kindergarten? (2) What is the present number of half-day and full-day places available at each pre-school kindergarten within the Electorate of Dmmmoyne? (3) Which pre-school kindergartens are licensed within the Drummoyne Elec- torate by your Department?

Answer- (1) Figures taken from the 1971 census indicate there were 802 children aged three years and 884 aged four years within the Drummoyne Electorate. Questions upon Notice 124 FEB., 19761 Questions upon Notice 3647

(2) There are, at present, two long day Child Care Centres and two sessional Child Care Centres. The licence capacity and number of children attending at the Centres is as follows:

Kindergarten Name Licence Age of Children Elstead Nursery Kindergarten, Operates between the hours of 2-5 years. 25 Rogers Avenue, 8.00 a.m. and 5.00 p.m. for the HABERFIELD. reception of 50 children. Little Citizen's Pre-School Operates between the hours of 2-5 years. Kindergarten, 8.00 a.m. and 5.00 p.m. for the 7 Rogers Avenue, reception of 19 children. HABERFIELD. St. Andrews Kindergarten, Operates between the hours of 3-5 years. Cnr. Sibbick & Bay Streets, 9.00 a.m. and 12.00 noon and ABBOTSFORD. 1.00 p.m. and 3.30 p.m. for the reception of 25 children. The Elves Pre-School Operates between the hours of 3-5 years. Kindergarten, 9.00 a.m. and 3.00 p.m. for the 77 Tranmere Street, reception of 24 children. DRUMMOYNE.

(3) All pre-school kindergartens are licensed by my Department, including those mentioned above.

HOUSING COMMISSION LAND, SOUTH COAST ELECTORATE

Mr HATTON asked the MINISTER FOR HOUSING AND MINISTER FOR CO-OPERATIVE SOCIETIES- How many building blocks are owned by the Housing Commission in the following categories in each of the towns within the South Coast Electorate- (a) subdivided serviced blocks available immediately for home building; (b) subdivided unserviced blocks; and (c) blocks available in unsubdivided broad acres zoned (i) residential, and (ii) non-urban? 3648 Questions upon Notice [ASSEMBLY] Questions upon Notice Answer- .-, .-, ,~,,~, (a) (b) D welling unit D welling unit potential of TownCoast in South Subdivided Subdivided potential of ,-F -...... serviced unserviced unsubdivided broad unsubdivided broad c1ecLurutc blocks blocks acres zoned acres zoned "Residential" "Non- Urban" Batemans Bay ...... 1 6 N/A N/A Bega ...... 26 4 N/ A N/A Bermagui ...... Nil 5 N/A NI A Huskisson ...... Nil 2 N/A N/A Moruya ...... Nil 2 N/A N/ A Narooma ...... Nil 3 N/ A N/ A Nowra ...... 103 1 700 340 (N/A-not applicable)

ASSISTANCE TO BEEF PRODUCERS, SOUTH COAST ELECTORATE

Mr HA'ITON asked the MINISTER FOR REVENUE AND ASSISTANT TREASURER- How much loan money has been made available from State Government funds to assist beef producers within the South Coast Electorate for the years 1973-74, 1974-75 and 1975-761

Answer- The Beef Producers (Carry on) Assistance Scheme was introduced in March, 1975. In the South Coast Electorate in 1974-75 loans totalling $206,209 were approved. Up to 23rd October, 1975, further loans amounting to $146,387 have been approved.

USE OF MOTOR POOL VEHICLES

Mr MAHER asked the PREMIER AND TREASURER- In each month since 1 March, 1974, what costs have been incurred in pro- viding motor vehicles from the State Government Motor Pool for use by members representing the Premier or Minister of the Crown?

Answer- Having regard to the records which are available, to provide the exact information would be a lengthy and time consuming task which would be difficult to justify at this time, bearing in mind salary costs and loss of man-hours likdy to be involved. From the 1st March, 1974 to the 31st October, 1975 arrangements were made on 71 occasions for Members of Parliament to represent the Premier at functions which required the use of Departmental cars. Questions upon Notice [24 FEB., 19761 Questions upon Notice 3649 The number of occasions on which cars were supplied each month for the period from March, 1974 to October, 1975 is shown as follows:

Month Number of Occasions March, 1974 .. 2 April, 1974 . . .. 11 May, 1974 .. .. 5 June, 1974 . . .. 4 July, 1974 . . .. 6 August, 1974 .. 5 September, 1974 . . 10 October, 1974 .. 5 November, 1974 .. 5 December. 1974 . . Nil

January, 1975 Nil February, 1975 1 March, 1975 . . 2 April, 1975 . . 1 May, 1975 . . Nil June, 1975 . . 1 July, 1975 . . 2 August, 1975 1 September, 1975 5 October, 1975 . . -5 Total -71

No arrangement exists for cars to be provided from the Departmental Car Pool for Members of Parliament who may represent Ministers of the Crown.

RAILWAY APPRENTICES

Mr BOOTH asked the MINISTER FOR TRANSPORTAND MINISTER FOR HIGHWAYS- (1) How many railway apprentices were accepted for each of the last 5 years and in which trades? (2) How many railway apprentices are to be accepted and in which trades in 19761 3650 Questions upon Notice [ASSEMBLY] Questions upon Notice

Answer- The following answer relates to all Public Transport Commission apprentices which incorporates rail, bus and ferry apprentices.

Metropolitan 1972 1973 1974 1975 1976 Ferries, Ferries, Rail Bus Rail Bus Rail Bus Rail and Bus Rail and Bus Fitter and Machinists . . Boilermakers . . . . Blacksmiths . . . . Coppersmiths . . Sheetmetal worker; ' . . Electroplaters .. . . Electrical Fitters Electrical ~itter/~&hanici' Plumbers . . . . Car and Wagon ~iiiders. . Carriage Trimmers. . . . Wood Machinists . . . . Coachpainters . . . . Electrical Mechanics Electrical ~echanics/~ign& Motor Mechanics . . . . Panelbeaters . . . . Signwriters ...... Spraypainters . . Electrical Fitters (~ito.). . Letterpress Machinists . . Compositors . . . . Bricklayers ...... Carpenters ...... Leatherworlcers . . . . Painters ...... Patternmakers . . Telecommunications ~ech.. Bodybuilders . . . . Motor Trimmer . . . . Vehicle Trimmer . . . . Moulder ...... Shipwright ...... Plant Mechanics . . ..

Newcastle 1972 1973 1974 1975 1976 Rail Bus Rail Bus Rail Bus Rail and Bus Rail and Bus Fitter and Machinists 16 .. Electrical Fitters . . 14 . . Boilermakers 4 .. Electrical ~echanicsj~ig. . . . . Car and Wagon Builders 2 .. Electrical Mechanics 9 .. Motor Mechanics .. .. 4 Bodybuilders ...... Painters ...... 1 Panelbeaters . . .. 1 Welders ...... Wood ~achkists...... Questions upon Notice [24 FEB., 19761 Questions upon Notice 3651 Country 1972 1973 1974 1975 1976 Rail Bus Rail Bus Rail Bus Rail and Bus Rail and Bus Fitter & Machinists . . 3 . . 7 .. Boilermakers .. 2 .. 1 .. Car and Wagon ~iiiders. . 1 ...... Electrical Mechanics . . 3 . . 3 .. Electrical Mech./Sig...... Electrical Fitters ...... 1 .. Sheetmetal Workers ......

The 1975 intake includes 40 Commonwealth Government subsidized appren- tices. 2. The number of apprentices in various trades accepted by the Commission in 1976 are shown below: Fitter Machinists ...... Boilermakers ...... Blacksmiths ...... Elec. Fitter Mechanic ...... Elec. Mech. Signals ...... Motor Mechanics ...... Panelbeaters ...... Elec. Fitters (Auto) ...... Letterpress Machinists ...... Patternmakers ...... Telecommunications Mechanics ...... Bodybuilders ...... Vehicle Trimmer . , ...... Moulders ...... Shipwright ...... Plant Mechanics ......

RAILWAY APPRENTICES, NEWCASTLE DISTRICT

Mr BOOTH asked the MINISTER FOR TRANSPORT AND MINISTER FOR HIGHWAYS- (1) What training facilities are to be provided for railway apprentices in the Newcastle District? (2) Where will these facilities be located?

Answer- 1. Currently, temporary facilities, in the form of an annex, with a capacity of 15 fitter/ machinists in 1976. 2. These facilities are to be located at the Cardiff Workshops. 3652 Questions upon Notice [ASSEMBLY] Questions upon Notice

TRAINING OF ENGINE DRIVERS AND FIREMEN

Mr BOOTH asked the MINISTER FOR TRANSPORT AND MINISTER FOR HIGHWAYS- (1) What training faciIities for engine drivers and iiremen are to be provided in the Newcastle District? (2) Where will these facilities be located?

Answer- (1) At the present time methods of training locomotive enginemen in New- castle involve chalkboards; charts covering signals and safeworking, diesel electric locomotive and component parts, air brake and component parts; as well as a slide projector and synchrocorder. Consideration is being given to the introduction of an overhead projector, signal models and track layout for each safeworking system, additional components and sections of the various equipment on diesel electric locomotives and air brake equipment. (2) This training is carried out at the Railways Institute, Hunter Street, Newcastle. The future of the Institute is at present under consideration and, in the event that the premises are no longer required for Commission purposes, a suitable location will be found in Newcastle for training classes. With this in mind, preliminary discussions have already taken place with the Principal of the Newcastle Technical College about possible alternative accommodation.

ESTIMATED COST, WESTERN AND NORTH-WESTERN EXPRESSWAYS

Mr MAHER asked the MINISTER FOR TRANSPORT AND MINISTER FOR HIGHWAYS- What is the present estimated cost of completing the construction of the (a) Western Expressway and (b) North-Western Expressway in the Sldney Metro- politan Area?

Answer- (a) $180m. (b) $230m. (This includes the Lane Cove ValIey Freeway and 4he Sydney- Newcastle Freeway as far as Berowra.) The estimates are based on present day costs of roadworks and on current proposals for freeway construction generally. These proposals are currently being reviewed by the Government's Urban Transport Advisory Committee. Questions upon Notice [24 FEB., 19761 Questions upon Notice 3653

ABORT'IONS IN PUBLIC HOSPITALS

Mr K. J. STEWART asked the MINISTER FOR HEALTH- (1) How many abortions were performed in the following New South Wales public hospitals during the years ended 30 June, 1970, 30 June, 1974, and 30 June, 1975- Auburn District Hospital? Balmain Hospital? Crown Street Women's Hospital? Hornsby and District Hospital? Manly District Hospital? Mona Vale District Hospital? Prince Henry Hospital? Prince of Wales Hospital? Royal Hospital for Women, Paddington? Royal North Shore Hospital? Ryde District Soldiers' Memorial Hospital? St George Hospital? St Luke's Hospital, Darlinghurst? Sutherland District Hospital? The Canterbury Hospital? Western Suburbs Hospital? (2) In each of these hospitals during the periods abovementioned, how many abortions were for- (a) medical indications? (b) surgical indications? (c) psychiatric indications? (d) socio-economic indications? (3) In each of these hospitals during the periods abovementioned, how many hospital bed days were involved and what was the average stay of patients upon whom an abortion was performed?

Answer- Unfortunately the required information is not immediately available, but will be compiled by the Health Commission and presented in the near future.

GRANTS FROM THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT ASSISTANCE FUND

Mr DURICK asked the DEPUTY PREMIER, MINISTER FOR LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND MINISTER FOR TOURISM- (1) What Government grants have been paid from the Local Government Assistance Fund during the previous five financial years to each Municipal and Shire Council in New South Wales? (2) What guidelines and criteria are adopted in determining these graots? 3654 Questions upon Notice [ASSEMBLY] Questions upon Notice

Answer- (1) Government grants paid from the Local Government Assistance Fund during the previous five financial years to each municipal and shire council in New South Wales are shown in a statement contained in the Annual Report of the Department of Local Government for each of the financial years in question. (2) The Local Government Grants Commission has adopted a formula for the allocation of grants to councils from the Local Government Assistance Fund based upon three factors-(a) "weighted" population, (b) "weighted" expenditure from general purposes rates and (c) relative needs, to give a total grant, half of which is payable in February and the balance in October. For the year ended 31/12/75, 72 per cent of the total grant was distributed equally on the population and rates factors and 28 per cent on the needs factor. The proportion allocated on the basis of need has increased with the increase in the total amount available for distribution.

The weightings adopted for the formula were as follows:

Population : Central Division : Country Division: First 10,000-full value First 20,000-full value Next 10,000-half value Next 10,000-half value Next 10,000-quarter value Next 270.000-one-eighth value Next 10,OOGquarter value Over 300;000-~il. Next 260,000-one-eighth value.

Rates: Central Division : Country Division: First $250,000-full value First $500,000-full value Next $250,000-half value Next $250,000-half value Next $250,000-quarter value Next $6,750,000-one-eighth Next $250,000-quarter value value Next $6,500,000-one-eighth Over $7,500,000-Nil. value.

Relative Needs: These were determined by the Commission on the needs of each council relative to the needs of all other councils. The following additional adjustments were made: (1) An amount of $3,000 was determined for each "urban centre", that is, any town having a population of 1,000 persons or more, and an amount of $1,250 for each "locality", that is any town having a population of 500 persons or more, within country shires. (2) Allocations to shire councils were increased, where necessary, so that the grants they received represented at least a 50 per cent increase in the amount last paid as endowment. (3) For the Central Division only, a maximum grant of $1.30 per head of population was determined for the population and rates factors. NO maximum was fixed in respect of the "needs" factor. The minimum grant was maintained at $5,500. Questions upon Notice 124 FEB., 19761 Questions upon Notice 3655 Councils each year are requested to furnish details of their financial position and certain other information to enable the Commission to allocate the relative needs factor for the following year. For the purposes of the formula, the State is divided into three zones, viz., the Central Division, Country Municipalities and Country Shires. The Central Division comprises an area embracing the Sydney metropolitan area, the City of Wollongong, the Municipality of Shellharbour, the Cities of Penrith and Campbelltown, and the Shires of Lake Macquarie, Gosford and Wyong, and the City of Newcastle.

WATERFALL-BULL1 PASS TOLLWAY Mr PETERSEN asked the MINISTER FOR TRANSPORT AND MINISTER FOR HIGHWAYS- What was the total cost of constructing the tollway between Waterfall and Bulli Pass?

Answer- The cost of constructing the tollway between Waterfall and Bulli Pass has not yet been finalised. However, it is estimated that the total cost of the work will be of the order of $30.5m. comprising $24m. for construction costs and $6.5m. for capitalization of debt charges.

UNIMPROVED CAPITAL VALUE, CONCORD HIGH SCHOOL SITE Mr MAHER asked the MINISTER FOR LANDS AND MINISTER FOR FORESTS- What is the unirnproved capital value of the land between Stanley Street and Crane Street, Concord upon which the Concord High School is to be erected?

Answer- The last unimproved value of this site was determined on the 6th March, 1969, at $455,000. The land has not been valued by the Valuer General since 1969 as it has not been rateable since 1970 when the Department of Education acquired it.

BUS ROUTE 3 18, ROCKDALE Mr BANNON asked the MINISTER FOR TRANSPORT AND MINISTER FOR HIGHWAYS- Is it proposed that bus service No. 318, Rockdale-Brighton-le-Sands-Ramsgate, will in the future terminate, not at Rockdale railway station as it has for so many years, but in the vicinity of a new commercial venture situated at some distznc:: from the Rockdale railway station?

Answer- The Public Transport Commission does not propose to alter the bus Route 31 8 terminus at Rockdale Station. Moreover, in a report on the proposed growth pattern of the area to the end of the century, prepared by Rockdale Municipal Council, it is not envisaged that the terminus be relocated. 3656 Questions upon Notice [ASSEMBLY] Questions upon Notice ABORTIONS, KING GEORGE V HOSPITAl;

Mr K. J. STEWART asked the MINISTER FOR HEALTH- (1) How many abortions were performed in the King George V Hospital during the years ended 30 June, 1970, 30 June, 1974, and 30 June, 19751 (2) During the periods abovementioned, how many of these abortions were for- (a) medical indications? (b) surgical indications? (C) psychiatric indications? (d) socio-economic indications?

(1) Year ended 30 June, 1970: There were 47 vacuum curettes including 4 with sterilization. Year ended 30 June, 1974: There were 682 vacuum curettes including 44 with sterilization, plus 23 hysterotomies (terminations after 16 weeks) and 53 prostoglandins in saline (terminations after 12 weeks). Prince Alfred is the only hospital which does this. This is therefore a state-wide figure. Year ended 30 June, 1975: There were 725 vacuum curettes including 79 with sterilization, plus 12 hysterotornies and approximately 400 prostoglandins in saline. N.B. The current rate for the last 4 months in respect of prostoglandins in saline has dropped considerably to an annual rate of approximately 240 per annum. (2) The international coding for termination of pregnancy in medical records does not allow for the breakdown required to answer the question. However, it has been possible to provide a sample breakdown only for the 400 prosto- glandins in saline on abortions performed during the year 30 June, 1975. 2.3%-some psychiatric disturbances 64.8%-some psycho-social disturbances 22.1 %-socio-economic problems l.l %--due to maternal reasons 9.7%-foetal abnormalities

AGE LIMITS, TAXI DRIVERS' LICENCES

Mr MAHER asked the MINISTER FOR TRANSPORTA ND MINISTER FOR HIGHWAYS- (1) Are persons aged 18, 19 and 20 years ineligible to obtain taxi drivers' licences? (2) Does the Government intend to permit such persons to become eligible to seek taxi drivers' licences in the future? Questions upon Notice 124 FEB., 19761 Questions upon Notice 3657 Answer- (1) Regulation 18 of the Regulations for Public Vehicles made under the Transport Act, 1930, prescribes that a licence shall not be granted to a person to drive a taxi-cab if he is under the age of 21 years. The Commissioner for Motor Transport may, however, grant a licence to a person under that age, where he is satisfied that there are special circumstances which justify the granting of a licence to such person. (2) It is not proposed in the foreseeable future to give general approval for the issue of taxi-cab driver's licences to persons under the prescribed age.

SECONDARY SCHOOLS, DRUMMQYNE ELECTORATE

Mr MAHER asked the MINISTER FOR EDUCATION- (1) Which secondary schools are attended by children from Concord, Mortlake, Five Dock and Abbotsford? (2) What was the enrolment in 1975 at each of these schools? (3) Are playing fields and sporting facilities considered adequate at each such secondary school?

Answer- Schools Enrolment Sporting facilities and Playing Fields Ashfield Boys' High School Limited (site restrictions) Burwood Girls' High School Limited (possible further extensions to present facilities) Drummoyne Boys' High School . . . . Reasonable Fort Street High School . . Reasonable Homebush Boys' High School . . . . Adequate Leichhardt Girls' High Limited (progressively being amal- School . . . . gamated with Ibrox Park Boys' High School) Riverside Girls' High School Adequate Strathfield Girls' High School . . . . Adequate.

STEEL LOCKERS IN HIGH SCHOOLS

Mr MAHER asked the MINISTER FOR EDUCATION- (1) Has a policy decision been made to provide one steel locker for each student enrolled in every high school in the State? (2) If so, what provisions are being made for such facilities in new and existing high schools? 3658 Questions upon Notice [ASSEMBLY] Questions upon Notice Answer- (1) There is no general concensus of opinion that a locker need be supplied for each pupil in secondary schools. Indeed, some schools have arranged for their removal. (2) A limitation is not placed on the quantity of lockers that may be supplied to new or existing high schools. Applications from principals are reviewed on their merits, having regard to the availability of funds, the number of lockers currently in use, and subject to accommodation being sufficient to house any additional furniture.

PERSONS INJURED IN JURY SERVICE

Mr CLEARY asked the ATTORNEY-GENERAL AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE- During each year since 1 January, 1965- (1) How many claims were made by persons injured on their way to, during or on return from jury service? (2) How many of these claims were settled by ex gratia payment? (3) What was the total amount of ex gratia payments made in respect of these claims?

(1) The information sought by the Honourable Member is not kept, either by the Sheriff or my Department, in a form permitting of a ready reply to the question, and the task of searching records would involve unreasonable time and expense. While not in a position to answer the question, as asked, therefore, it may be of some assistance to the Honourable Member if I advise that seven claims have been paid during the period in question and the personal recollections of my officers are that in recent years a case cannot be recalled where a claim was refused for compensation for injury sustained on the way to, during or on return from jury service. (2) Since 1st January, 1965, my Department has a record of seven claims which have been settled by ex gratia payment, namely- 1965-1966 ...... Nil 1966-1967 ...... 1 1967-1969 ...... Nil 1969-1970 ...... 2 1970-1971 ...... Nil 1971-1972 ...... 2 1972-1973 ...... Nil 1973-1 974 ...... 1 1974-1975 ...... 1 (3) The total amount of ex gratia payment made in respect of those claims is $688.46.