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Home , Chandra Shekhar, Pramod Mahajan, Ram Vilas Paswan

:lrventh Series, Vol. I, No. 4 Monday, May 27, 1096 Jyaistha 6, 1918 (.S'~kn)

LOK SABHA DEBATES (English Version)

First Session (Eleventh )

fVoL I contains Nos. I to 5)

LOK SAB~ASECRETARIAT NEW DELE1

Price : Rs. 50.00 EDITORIAL BOARD

Shri Surendra Mishra Secretary-General Lok Sabha

Shrirnatl Reva Nayyar Joint Secretary Lok Sabha Secretariat

Shri P.C. Bhan Chiel Editor Lok Sabha Secretadat

Shri A.P Chakravarti Senior Editor

Smt Kamla Sharma Shri P.K. Sharma Edflor Editor

Shr: FL Bamrara Shri Rakesh Kurnar Shri J.B.S. Rawat Ass~s!an: Editor Assistant Editor Assistant Edkor

(Ohd,ilh~l.ENOLISH PROrkEDIWS l'~''LU061, Ih. E~'jllSH VERSIO(JAND ORIGINALHINDI PRWEEDINW INCLUDED IN HINDI V~KSIOKWILL 86 TREATED AS ALTH~JR~TA~II\'L.Ah3 NO1 TM TkANSLATlON THEREOF) CONTENTS [Eleventh Series, Vol. I, First Session, l996/1918 (Saka)] No 4, Monday, May 27, 1996/Jyaishtha 6, 1918 (Saka)

C;C&I~IIS EE ON GOVERNMENT ASSURANCES (TENTH LOK SABHA) Th~r~y-NmthRepor, - La~d

RE INCIDENTS OF ETHNIC VIOLENCE IN ASSAM MATTERS UNDER RULE 377 (I) Need for ar aerodrome at Ajmer Prof Rasa Smgh Rawat (11) Need to reconstruct budge at Kuzh~thura~on the Tr~vandrum-Kanyakumar~Nat~onal H~ghway Shrl N Denn~s

(111) Neeti to Implement the 15 polnt programme to protect the Interests of Musllms SIIII Pr~yaRanjan Dasmuns~

~IVJNeed to take steps to protect Revalr dam In Bahralch d~strctof Shr~Ben1 Prasad Verma rv) Need to construct a ra~lwayoverbr~dge In Fatehpur town of Uttar Pradesh Shr~V~shambhar Prasad N~shad

(VI) Need to gwe compensatlori to vlctlms of pol~cefwng In Uttarakhand movement 1 Shr~Satpal Maharal (VII) Need to probe Inlo the alrdroppmg of arms ~n Purulla Shr~Blr Smgh Mahato MOTION C i CONFIDENCE IN THE COUNCIL OF MINISTERS Shrl Atal B~har~Vajpayee Shrl Shr~Ram Vdas Shr~ Shr~ Shrl Sanat Mehta Shr~Somnath Chatterlee Shr~P Ch~dambaram Shr~Madhukar Sarpotdar Shrl Murasol~Maran ANNOUNCEMENT RE PANEL OF CHAIRMEN LOK SABHA kindly intervene in the matter and to contact the State Governments concerned to facilitate the release Monday, May 27, 19961 Jyaistha 6, 7918 (Saka! of these vessels in order to overcome the problems that have arisen Fortunately, I have received a call (The Lok Sabha met at Thrrty Two yesterday that the Unions have withdrawn thelr strike. Minutes past Ten of the Clock) However. I would like to say that this is a regular [MR. SPEAKERin the Charr] problem. The Government should take up this issue and see that some permanent solutions are arrived at... (Interruptions) COMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENT MR. SPEAKER . We have recelved notlces All ASSURANCES(TENTH LOKSAHHA) the notices that have been given have been admitted and those Members will be allowed, No other Thirty-Ninth Report Member IS allowed [English] [Translation] SECRETARY-GENERAL : I beg to lay on the Table SHRl the Thirty-Ninth Report (Hlndl and English versions) (Jhanjharpur) Only matters under Rule 377 have of the Committee on Government Assurances (Tenth beer1 in the prlnted List of Business and Lok Sabha) under the direction 71A sub-direction 6 mentioned of the Directions by the Speaker The Report was not zero hour. presented to the Speaker of the preceding Lok Sabha [Englrsh] before its dissoultion MR SPEAKER I will come to Matters under Rule 377 later on. Matters under Rule 377 is very MR. SPEAKER . I have received a number of much there notices for Zero Hour. All the notlces that have been (Interruptions) received have been admitted. So, you do not have SHRl PC. THOMAS (Muvattupuzha) . Slr lndla IS to worry. I will call the Members one by one Mr a forerunner in the export of splces and especrally Priya Ranjan Das Munsl. Please restrict to two minutes. so In the export of pepper. There is a problem being faced in this field A cess was imposed on pepper SIiRI PRlYA RANJAN DAS MUNSI (Howrah) and some other spices .; !nterruptions) ... The earlier Mr. Speaker, Sir, I raise a very Important matter In Government has given a stay for a certain period on $pile of having an excess In the export market the the imposition of this cess and that perlod would be reputed typewriter manufacturing unit Remlngton over by 31st March. Now. I request the Governmen! Rand remained closed for the last two years to ~clndly intervene immed~atelybecause unless the because of fraudulent change over of the cess of two per cent IS stopped forthwith for sorce management. I deslre the Central Government to more months, our exports are golng to be in great immediately Instruct the State Government of West Bengal through the Labour Minlstry to find per11and the farmers dealing wlth cardamom pepper and other splces are going tc be in great difficulties possibilities of reopening the u~iitirnmedlately It IS causing 1500 people salaries and wages, PF and In the days to come. Gratuity. I apprehend a serlous unrest In the city of I request the hon Government and the Howrah in West Bengal wlthln two weeks wh~chcan Commerce Mln~ster- I do not know whether the be avoided if immediate intervention of the Union Commerce Minster has been appointed - that IS why Government takes place I am sure the Prlme Mln~ster will take note of 11 SHRl MANORANJAN BHAKTA (Andaman and because it IS a matter ot great pu~l~:Importance Nicobar Islands) . Mr. Speaker. Sir, a serlous problem But tor an lmmedlate actlon our exports are gomg lo is being faced by the people 1n.the Unlon Terrltory suffer to a great extent of Andaman and Nlcobar Islands because of MR SPEAKER . If you d~dnot know that there detention of two shlps, one at Calcutta ana the other was a scope tor Zero Hour you knew very well that one at Vizag, by the Forward Seamen Unlon i h,eve there was a scope br:der iiille 377 Whoever has Written a letter to the hon. Pr~rne Mlnlster In this given notice under Rule ?77 I have admitted ~t.So regard. These shlps are the llfelmes to Andarnan you cannot claln~~t nobj and Nicobar Islands where essential commodltles are scare. People stranded on the Islands are no! in [Translatrvnj a Position to come out and those who are on the mainland are not ih a position to go back That 1s SHRl SATYAL2EV SlNGH (Balrampur) . Mr why I requested the Pr~meMmster In the lettel to Speaker. Str I mculd !:kc tc, draw, through you, the 3 MAY 27, 1996 4 attention of the House as well as the Government SHRl GlRDHARl LAL BHARGAVA (Jaipur) : Mr. towards the difficulties of sugarcane farmers of Uttar Speaker, Sir, I would like to state that is Pradesh. The present condition of Uttar Pradesh is most peaceful State where people from every nook such that the sugar mills in large number are being and corner of lndia like to set up industries and closed there now. Around 20 lakh quintal of reside there. There IS full peace in the state ruled sugarcane of farmers is likely to remain idle in the by hon. Bhairon Singh Shekhawat but a bomb blast fields itself in my parliamentary constituency took place on January 26,1996 and after that, as my Balrampur. Sugarcane farmers are baffled today and precedent Speaker was stating, another bomb blast facing difficulties. I, through you, would like to request took place on 22.5.96. A bus of Rajasthan transport the Government to issue instructions tn Uttar Pradesh corporation, started from Agra at 11 A.M. and when to ensure that the crushing work of sugar mills is not it was only 4 kms. away from Dausa, a bomb stopped until and unless the sugarcane crop is there exploded in the bus at 2.10 P.M. Hon. Chief Minister, in the field. If sugar mills need economic assistance Shri Bhairon Singh Shekhawat, Home Minister Shri for that purpose, they should be provided. The Kaiiash Meghwal and all the MLAs and officers Government should exempt sugar mills from levy reached there immediately and provided relief to all sugar when crushing starts in June, so that they may those who were injured and Rs. on lakh each to the be able to purchase sugarcane. I would like to bereaved families of those who died in the incident. suggest that the corruption, which is rampant in I myself had visited the site yesterday. All the 26 sugarcane dealing should be eradicated to end the injured persons have been admitted to Sawai Man tragedy of sugarcane farmers in Uttar Pradesh. Singh Hospital and the State Government is taking all care to provide them proper treatment. Any type Secondly the demand of delicensing sugar mills, of discontentment is not visible any where. I would specially in UP has been prsistently made in the like to state that people of the predecessor House so that the farmers could be saved from the Government are creating nuisance and my tragedy in future. Government has been able to nab the terrorist. The Besides this, sugar mills of UP owe a huge BJP Government at the centre and Rajasthan outstanding ampunt to farmers. Some of these mills Government both deserve thanks tor this act. are in public sector, some are owned by State Government and some are in private sector. I demand [E ng /is h] that effective steps should be taken in this regard so MR. SPEAKER : You have made your point, now that the sugarcane farmers are paid their dues. conclude. DR. RAMESH CHAND TOMAR (Hapur) : Mr. [Tranlation] Speaker, Sir, I, through you, would like to draw the attention of the Government towards the pitiable SHRl GlRDHARl LAL BHARGAVA : Mr. Speaker, condition of sugarcane farmers of Uttar Pradesh. In Sir, I would like to request you to spoil their evil my constituency, around 75 per cent sugarcane is designs and take action against them in order to there in the field itself. Therefore, I would like to avoid such nuissance and to strengthen the demand that sugar mills should continue crushing ' ...(Interruptions) untll the entire sugarcane is not utilized. No payment SHRl BHAGWAN SHANKAR RAWAT (Agra) : Mr. has yet been made for the slips provided against the Speaker, Sir, I would like to draw your attention sugarcane supplied to mills and causing worry to towards intentionally freezing out the electric supply farmers. Therefore, payment should be immediately in Uttar Pradesh. In Connivance with officers made against these slips. Uttar Pradesh produces electricity crisis is being created in entire Uttar sugarcane in huge quantity, therefore I would like to Pradesh to dislodge the elected Government of Shri demand that sugar mills should be delicensed so at cen!re. I demand the that the mills may be set up at various places and Government of lndia to take effective steps in this farmers may supply sugarcane easily, they are regard since officers, in political pressure, are benefitted and their condition is improved. terrorising the people by defaming the Government PROF. RASA SlNGH RAWAT (Ajmer) : Mr. and freezing out the electric supply. Government Speaker, Sir, I would like to draw the attention of the should make proper arrangements to take care of it. Government towards a serious matter. The bomb blast Mr. Speaker, Sir, as per the directions of Supreme in Dausa bound bus coming from Agra, in Rajasthan Court, uninterrupted power should be supplied to Taj has cla~med34 innocent lives besides injurmg many. Trapazium Area but in connivance with some Central Likewise the bomb blast in Lajpat Nagar in and State Government officers and in political ' and communal r~otsin Assam indrcate that after the pressure this order is being overlooked. Though formation of new Government, some anti-national Atfidavit was demanded by Supreme Court but the forces ... (Interruptions) officers refused to bear the responslbility. I, drawing 5 Re. lrrcidents 01 ethnic JYAISTHA 6, 1918 (Saka) Violence rn Assam 6

your attention to this matter, would like that action Sir, Parliament is rightly seized of what is now should be taken against such Government officers happening in Assam and cannot atford to remain a and electricity should be supplied to entire Uttar dump spectator. Pradesh specially Taj Trapazium Area so as to avoid danger to Tajmahal besides controlling the [Trans la tion] environment. SHRl GUMAN MAL LODHA (Pali) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, Assam is burning today. Only yesterday, Shri Nirmal Chand Jain was shot dead in broad day light in Fancy Market, Guwahati for not giving Rs. one 11.14 hrs. lakh ...(Interruptions) Terrorism in Assam is increasing on large scale. Sir, firstly ULFA was banned and RE : INCIDENTS OF ETHNIC they were pressurised to surrender their arms and VIOLENCE IN ASSAM ammunitions and they were engaged again by providing money but they again turned to militancy [English] and started Committing drocities as SULFA. Now, in SHRl BIJOY'KRISHNA HANDIQUE (Jorhat) : Mr. Guwahati Specially in Fancy Market and at other places outsiders specially Rajasthanis are terrorised Speaker Sir, I w'ish to raise a matter of great public and crores of rupees are being realised from them Importance. It IS ethnic clashes between Bodos and at the gun point. I would like hon. Home Minister to Santhals in Assam. give a statement in this regard and safeguard Sir, never in the history of Assam ethnic clashes Rajasthanis there. .or ethnic vilolence of such huge scale has ever happened.. .(Interruptions) [Englrsh] MR. SPEAKER : Please, it is a very serious MR. SPEAKER : Now the Home Minister will matter. reply. SHRl BlJOY KRISHNA HANDIQUE : Slr, the fact (Interruptions) that two lakhs to three lakhs of people have been SHRl G. GILBERT SWELL (Shillong) : Have you sheltered in camps indicates the magnitude of the visited that place? Why did you not find time disaster in about 275 villages covering an area of immediately to vlsit Assam to find out what is going 1600 square kilometers. on there?.. .(Interruptions) Sir, the reported involvement of the armed mllltant KUMARI (Calcutta South) : outfits intensifies the gravity of the situation. Most of Mr. Speaker, Sir, please allow me to speak regarding the dead, which has now risen to about 200, are Assam before the Home Minister starts speaking. reportedly Santhals. Sir, Armed Forces and an All . .(Interruptions) Party delegation which visited th~sarea suspected MR. SPEAKER : No. I cannot allow you to speak that 11 was a pre-planned action. now. If I allow you then I will have to allow others Sir, I do welcome the decision of the Government also. of Assam to institute a judicial inquiry into these (Interruptions) causes. But what surprises me, Sir, is the pathetlc 'THE MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (DR. MURLl little action on the part of the Central Government at ) : Sir, this problem of ethnic the outset of the trouble. We were expecting that the clashes in Assam has received the best of our hon. Home Minister would visit Assam; we were attention. As soon as we came to know about it, the expecting that the Home Secretary would visit Assam M~nistrqand myself both contacted the off~cersin Well people in hundreds die let people in lakhs suffer Assam as well as the Chief Minister of Assam. The the miseries of living in camps. Why should that hon. Member should know ... (Interruptions) I will tell perturb Delhi? ... (Interruptions) Sir, I do not want to you. Please listen to me. Please bear with me be interrupted like this because I am raising a very ...(lnterruptions) Now the law and order important matter. ...(Interruptions) in order that a ...(lnterruptions) Hon. Members, please wait. wrong signal may not go to the people of Assam, I suggest that a ~arltamentar~team visitars this area. SHRl PRlYA RANJAN DAS MUNSl (Howrah) : When the Prime Minister could go to the Golden And I further request that this team will also make assessment ot the post-election scenario in Assam Temple and Harmindir Sahib, why could he not go to Assam? That is the question ...(Interruptions) because violence has rocked many other places too. Killing of election candidates, killing of political MR. SPEAKER :The Home Minister is responding workers, killing of Government officials and killing of to a very serious situation that is obtaining in Assam. journalists - all tell the distressing truth that things I think we must have the patience to hear the Home in Assam at the moment are in awfully bad shape. Minister. Re. lnctdents of ethntc MAY 27, 1996 Violence in Assam 8

DR. MURLl MANOHAR JOSHl : Sir, It is this type DR. MURLl MANOHAR JOSHl : There are 01 behaviour which is responsible for many problems sufficient number of Armed Forces. The Ministry has even ~n Assam. Slr, This irresponsibility instructed the Armed forces; the State Government ...(Interruptions) Listen. Just listen ...(Interruptions) has to coordinate.with the Armed Forces. The District Magistrates have to coordinate with the Armed Forces MR SPEAKER : Please sit down. and as and when they appealed or requested the (interruptions) Armed Forces they cam4 to the rescue of the District Administration, they began flag marches and MR SclC \r,E,G . I have already said. Please whatever help possible was rendered. That is why listen 1;) ..,e iln not waste your time. I have said, it the entire ethic violence could be controlled in.two is a very serious matter. I would expect the Ho'me or three days ...(Interruptions) Minister to reply it with seriousness and with responsibility Do not make such comments. KUMARI MAMATA BANERJEE : Two-and-a-half lakh people are on the road. DR MURLl MANOHAR JOSH1 : I have never DR. MURLl MANOHAR JOSHl : Just bear with meant any disrespect to you or to the House but me. what I was referring to, was to the behaviour in Assam and not here... (Interruptions) It is the reponsibility of the State Government. This responsibility lies on the State Government. Law MR. SPEAKER . Please Itsten. and order is their responsibility. We can only assist DR MURLl MANOHAR JOSHl : Now. Sir, as the them...(Interruptions) august House knows, the responsibility to maintain I had offered, Mr. Speaker, to visit Assam. The law and order squarely lies on the State Assam Chief Minister said that because of the bandh Government. (Interrupt~ons). Yes, ~t lies I should not visit Assam. .. (Interrupt~ons)Please bear with me. As soon as SHRl BlJOY KRISHNA HANDIQUE : When was we came to know about this Incident, we got in touch that? with the State Mlnlstry as well as the Chief Minister and we~icussedwhat help they needed and we DR. MURLl MANOHAR JOSHl : The Ch~ef immediately started sending them the para military. Minister had clearly said and i cannot go like that. forces Today, there are 103 companies of Central We had sent five officials of the Home Ministry and para military forces oper?ting in Assam the Defence Ministry to go and coordinate. The situation came under control with the help of the . . .(lnterruphonst Just Walt paramilitary forces sent by us. I was in constant SHRl BIRENDRA PRASAD BAISHYA (Mangaldoi) touch with the State Government and we are helping The Home Mlnister is misleading the H.ouse. The them. We have not received any complaint from the Centre has not sent any force to Assarn, although State Government. The State Government has not there was a request from the State Government. made any complaints at all. All their demands have Ultimately, our Chlef Minister requested the Chief been met. Minister of . Shri Laloo Prasad Yadav to send Mr. Speaker, let us go to the origin of the ethnic forces from Bihar. He accepted our request and sent violence. As soon as the election results came out 15 compantes of forces from Blhar Rifles In Assam In a part~cularconstituency in Kokrajhar . . .(Interruptions) district there were two or three bodies - three bodies SHRl G. GILBERT SWELL (Interruptrons) Have - which were possibly ...(Interruptions) Just let me you identifled those bodies? To which communlty say, three bodies of women were found ...(Interruptions) those bodies belong'. ..(Interruptions) MR SPEAKER : When your Home Minister is MR SPEAKER : Shri Acharia. I thlnk you have replying why do you disturb him? You should support made you point. him. DR. MURLl MANOHAR JCSHl Every point will DR MURLl MANOHAR JOSHl : Three bodies of be rcesponded and I will share wlth the House women were found in the Police Station area of whatever has been done by the Central Government Kokrajhar district. The Police tried to identify those ...(Interruptions') bodies. The police patrol parties went around two- Please bear with me. Most of the paramilltary three kilometres of the place-of incident but nobody forces, which were deployed in Kashmir because of came forward to identify those ladles the General Elections there, could not be sent back ...(lnterruptions). Nobody could tell to which village to Assam and Assam has already been declared as these bodies belonged or to which communlty or a disturbed area. caste these bodies belonged. There was a comdlete ...(Interruptions). Please listen to me.. . (lnterrupt;ons). SHRl BASUDEB ACHARIA (Bankura) : That is No identification could be made but in the meantime not sufficient. Re: Incidents of ethnic JYAISTHA 6, 1918 (Sake) Matters Under Rule 377 10 Violence in Assam

KUMARI MAMATA BANERJEE : For your [7ia ns la tion] information, may I say something? ,SHRI RAJlV PRATAP RUDl (Chhapra) : Mr. MR. SPEAKER : Please sit down. Speaker, Sir, how can we expect the new members to behave when the old Members are resorting to . (Interruptions) breach of order, [Trans tion] la [English] KUMARI (Khajuraho) : Mr. Speaker, SHRl SONTOSH MOHAN DEV : Keeping that in Sir, she is keeping on shouting. Please as'k her to view, our appeal to the Home Mlnister is to send leave the House ...(interruptions) sufficient number of paramilitary forces so that the PROF. RASA SiNGH RAWAT (Ajmer) : Why are situation can come back to normalcy. Klndly do not they making a din? pass any remarks about this, which may affect the formal inquiry. MR. SPEAKER : What are yo: loing, Rawat jl? You are a senior member ...(1cto:n atlonsj MR. SPEAKER : That is enough. Yes, Mr. Home Minister. [English] DR. MURLl MANOHAR JOSH1 : Sir, I am not MR. SPEAKER : PleaseWrna Ji, when the taking any side, I am just giving you the brief facts Speaker is on his legs, you are not"supposed to about this violence. The Causes of the violence and stand up. Please understand that. the responsibility will b ixed by the judicial inquiry. There is no difference Y about it. I am just giving you Look here, we are yet to come to the agenda of the sequence of events that had happened there. the House today and it is a very important agenda Thereafter, it was the duty of the Government of that the House is going to take up. Let uc ave time. Assam to see that the causes of this violence and Today's motion is such that even these matters c.an checked up and they go to the people and explain be brought in when the motion is discussed. You will to them that this sort of violence is not good. The have more chances to discuss about these matters. ethnic violence in Assam is a very tragic one and we I have been a Minister and I know that after the Zero are all concerned about it. We have sent almost all Hour it is very difficult for a Minister to quickly stand para-military forces which we could physically send. up and answer. I must be grateful to the Home But I tell you that we cannot deploy the forces from Minister that he had responded to you. Please be other parts of the country and particularly from brief and conclude it. Kashmir. DR. MURLl MANOHAR JOSH1 . NOW,Sir, amr As far as the help which they have demanded these bodies were not identified, they were handed from us is concerned, we have given them and over for burial. But, in the meantime, because of the therefore there is no reason to doubt about it. As far election results, in which one party, that is, the AGP as my visit is concerned, as I said, I was in constant won against the expectations, and the other party, touch with them. I had asked the Chief Minister and that is, the Congress Party lost, there was some I had planned my visit. But it was he who said: political tension also ...(Interruptions). There were wild "Please do not come". rumours that some Santhals had killed the Bodo MR. SPEAKER : Now, we take up Matters under ladies, and the ethnic violence erupted. The Bodos Rule 377. Shri Rasa Singh Rawat. came out with very strong arms ...(Interruptions).

[Translation] . SHRl MUKHTAR ANIS (Sitapur) : Mr. Home

Minister, please tell us whether two people or 80 MATTERS UNDER RULE 377 1 people have been killed there? [Tra nsla lion] [English] (I) Nmad for on rarodromr 8t AJmer SHRl SONTOSH MOHAN DEV (Silcha) : Sir, he is the Home Minister of the country...( Interruptions) I PROF. RASA SINGH RAWAT (Ajmer) : Mr. fully appreciate his difficulty. But the polnt is that Speaker, Sir, I am raislng this matter under there is .en independent Inquiry Commission. He Rule 377. should not give judgement from his side. We are Ajmer is a prominent city of Rajasthan from mainly concerned about deputlng paramilitary forces. historical, cultural, social, religious and educational The Prlme Minister,. when he addressed the nation, points of view. Due to its distlnctiveness, Ajmer has himself expresssed his worry about the North-East maintained Its own identity not only in RaJasthan but ...(Interruptions) also throughout India; and the world over. It Is the, Matters Under Rule 377 MAY 27, 1996 Matters Under Rule 377 12

heart of Rajasthan. It has a population of about 4 urged upon to enquire into the matter of the present lakh. There is the place where Maharishi Dayanand posltion of Waqf property in West Bengal which has Saraswati attained 'Nirvana'. Besides, the holy shrine been very badly managed causing thereby untold of the famous Sufi saint, Khawja Sahib and the sufferings to the minorities. The Minority Commission renowned pilgrim centre of Pushkar where lakhs of may also look into the position of sanctioning to Indian and foreign visiters come for 'darshana'and recognition of Madrasas in West Bengal, most of attain spiritual gain, are also situated there. Ajmer which are yet to get any grant or sanction at a higher has a peculiar identity as a tourist place also. grade. The interest of minority cannot be safeguarded Such a famous clty is still devoid of an air link unless the 15-Point Programme of Government of and as a result, the tourists visiting Ajmer and lndia for the Communal Harmony is implemented in Pushkar have to first land at Jaipur by air and every part of India. thereafter proceed to Ajmer by road. The road journey causes them a lot of inconvenience. The famous [Translation] army cantonment, Nasserabad and the industrial towns of Byawar and Kishanganj are also situated (iv) Need to take steps to protect Revali Dam near Ajmer. in Bahraich District of Uttar Pradesh. Hence, keeping all these facts in view,, Ajmer deserves to be air-linked. The Government of SHRl BEN1 PRASAD VERMA (Kaiserganj) : Mr. Rajasthan has even allotted land for the aerodrome Speaker, Sir, there is an imminent danger of breach at Saradhana village near Ajmer and the Airport in Rawali dam in district Bahra~chof Uttar Pradesh. Authority of lndia has conducted a survey thereof. It In the event of breach of this dam, constructed on is deplorable that an aerodrome has not been river Ghaghara, more than two lakh families will be constructaQ at Ajmer so far. rendered homeless and lakhs of hactares of land Therefore, I strongly urge upon the Government will be inundated. I urge upon the Government to of lndia to construct an aerodrome without further immediately take preventive measures in order to delay at the historic city of Ajmer, the heart of check the breach In the dam ...(Interruptions)..' Rajasthan and link it with other air routes of the country. [Eng /ish] SHRl RAM NAlK (Bombay North) : Sir, I am on [English] point of order. Under Rule 377 only that statement could be given which is already approved. But the (ii) Need to Construct Bridge at Kuzhithurai on the Trivandrum-Kanyakumari National hon. Member has said something which is not a part Highway of his approved statement. MR. SPEAKER : I agree with you. It will not form SHRl N. DENNIS (Nagercoil) : Sir, there is an urgent need to replace the very old and dilapidated part of the statement. bridge at Kuzhithurai on the Trivandrum-Kanyakumari National Highway. It is posing grave danger to the (v) Need to construct a railway over bridge passengers and vehicular traffic. There are many in Fatehpur town of Utter Pradesh cracks and holes in it. the basement of the pillars of this bridge is gravely damaged and the supporting SHRl VISHAMBHAR PRASAD NISHAD temporary angular pillars subsequently provided are (Fatehpur) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, in the absence of a also damaged by the river water. So at any moment railway bridge in district Fatehpur of Uttar Pradesh, it may collapse. Such an occurance would be the traffic gets jammed causing accidental death to disastrous. This National Highway is one of the hundreds of people every year. prestigious and busiest roads in the country. I urge upon the Government to construct a brige Realising all these aspects, the Government have across the railway line in Fatehpur city. graciously included the construction of a new bridge in the Eighth Five Year Plan. The acquisltlon work is completed. But it is regrettable to note that steps (vi) Need to give compen~ationto victimr of have not yet been taken for the execution of this police firing in Uttarakhand movement very important and urgent work. So, I urge upon the SHRl SATPAL MAHARAJ (Garhwal) : Mr. Speaker, Government to take immediate steps for the execution of the work without any further delay. Sir, with your klnd permlsslon, I would llke to draw the attention of the Government towards tho following (iti) Need to implement 15-point programme matter of public importance. to protect interest8 of murlims As per the High court order, nearly Rs. 36 crore SHRl PRlYA RANJAN DAS MUNSl (Howrah) : were allocated as compensation to the kllled, injured Slr, the National Minority Commission may kindly be Not Recorded. 13 Motion of Confidence in JYAlSTHA 6. 1918 (Sake) the Council of Ministers

and victimised Uttrakhand people by the police and When I was first elected to this House, Pandit the administration during the movement for a Nehru was the at that time. separate state of Uttarakhand in 1994. But many I had seen him at work for several years. In those victlmised and injured Uttarakhandis were devoid of days I used to sit on that side ...(lnterruptions) I have above compensation and got no assistance at all. not forgotten that side even now. But I used to sit far behind because our number was very small. Today, I request the Government to conduct an inquiry a change has taken place and BJP has gradually into the matter and pay compensation to the next of increased its strength and influence and thus first kin of the killed as well as those injured and really became the main opposition party and now it has victimised. emerged as the single largest party in this election. This change did not take place all of a sudden. It [English] reflects the changing process of history. In the elections held recently, the people have (vii) Need to probe into the airdropping of given their mandate. It is high time that we ponder Arms in Purulia over the mandate seriously. We have emerged as SHRl BIR SlNGH MAHATO (Purulia) : On 17 the largest party. We should keep in mind the position obtained by other political parties as December. 1995 a large quantity of lethal weapons well ...(Interruptions) The Congress party had 260 was air-dropped by a foreign plane in Khatanga. members in the House when the Lok Sabha was Gunedih and Bared~hVillages of Jhalda Police dissolved. Now their number has gone down to 136. Station in the district, Purulia, West Bengal. The This is due to the mandate given by the people. This recovered weapons were AK 47, AK 56, Rocket- mandate should be accepted gracefully. It needs launcher, grenade, hand grenade, 9 M.M. revolvers some introspection. Their strength has come down and huge quantity of ammunitio~i~.The area is a part to half. The strength of Left Front has also come of my constituency which I represent now. down from 57 to 52. In West Bengal their strength I urge upon the Government to take appropriate has dwindled in terms of votes are the Lok Sabha as well as Legislative Assembly seats. Their strength action in this regard in public interest. has also gone down in Bihar ...(Interruptions) The strength of in the previous Lok Sabha was 56 from Bihar which has been reduced to 44 11.44 hrs. now. The BJP contested Lok Sabha elections in Bihar MOTION OF CONFIDENCE IN THE in alliance with Samta Party and it has got massive COlJNClL OF MINISTERS success. On the other hand the strength of Congress has pone down not only in Lok Sabha but in several [Translation] other states also where they have lost people's faith. / Other parties have formed their Governments in those THE PRIME MINISTER (SHRI ATAL BlHARl states. Why th~schange has taken place? What does VAJPAYEE) : I move : it indicate?...(Interruptions) "That this House expresses its confidence SHRl SHlVAJl KAMBLE (Usmanabad) : Mr. in the Council of Ministers." Speaker, please stop him. If this goes on unabated, then nobody will be in a position to speak [English] ...(Interruptions) MR. SPEAKER : Motion moved : SHRl ATAL BlHARl VAJPAYEE : This should also be noticed that the parties which are united together "That this House expresses its confidence to express lack of confidence against my Government in the Council of Ministers." today, had contested the elections on different planks. The time allotted for this motion is seven hours. They contested against one another...( Interruptions) Specific time is allotted to all the political parties. They contested the election by levelling serious You may kindly check it yourselves because I do not allegations against one another. There was no want to repeat that. alliance among there parties before the alection ...(Interruptions) [Trans lation] SHRl DATTA MAEGHE (Nagpur) :What happened SHRI ATAL BlHARl VAJPAYEE : Before I move a in Punjab. motlon of confidence on the floor of the House, I SHRl ATAL BiHARl VAJPAYEE : Even today there would like to pay my humble tributes to Pandit is no common programme of these allies. flrst the Jawahar Lal Nehru whose death anniversary is falllng Government will be formed and the programme will today.. .(Interruptions) be devised later on ... (Interruptions) 1S Motrot? of Conlrdence rn MAY 27, 1996 the Council of Ministers 16

SHRl MRUTYUNJAYA NAYAK (Phulbani) : You matter is still sub-judice, I do not want to say much are seeking other's support to save your Government. on it. But we saw how a minority Government turned into a majority Government. We too could have SHRl ATAL BlHARl VAJPAYEE : What is the basis of your alliance? What is its conceptual basis? This resorted to that method. But we refused to go that way. We would like to assure you that we will not ~ontroversyIS going on for so many days as to why ,the President has invited me to form the Government. commit the sinful act of adopting unjust method, of It has d~sturbedthe bleep of so many people resorting to corrupt practices or bargaining honesty ...jlnterruptrons) some poeple have uttered such for coming to power or for remaining in power. words for the President which should not have been. Democracy rests on moral values. Basically that used. But what helse the President could do in the is a morality based system. The previous Government post election scanarlo? Whether he should have had the option of entering into alliance honestly. called the Congress which was defeated in the There was no need to split opposition parties There elections and lost the mandate and whose rule the was no need to overstep anti-defection law. The people had rejected?'Whether hc should have called alliance should be formed honestly and transparently. a weird assortment of heterogenous elements which If political parties propose to come together with had not come into existence till then? . authentic transparency, they should do so but on the If the hon. President has invited the BJP as the basis of a common programme and not on the basis largest single party he has acted according to the of their share of participation In the Government. constitut~onalpropr~ety and the democratic norms They should not deposit lakhs of rupees in the banks ...(lnterruptrons,J for this purpose. If the country has really entered into the phase of coalition Governments, then the SHRl RAJENDRA AGNlHOTRl (Jhansi) : If you old experiences of 1977 or 1989 should not be interrupt in thls manner then no one would be repeated. Is it not the demand of the hour' Should allowed to speak Whatever you want to say you can not we resolve this? say latar on It has been the history of Congress that first they SHRl MOHAN RAWALE (Bombay South Central), extend their support, then soon after they draw it? He will also be glven an opportunity lo speak. Then This is the sequence which is coming down from why he is behaving l~kethis? . (Interruptions) Travancore days. If there is a change in the ideology

SHRl MUKHTAR ANlS (Sitapur) , It is the of the Congress, then we will welcome it. But its members of the Prme Mln~stersparty who are not history till date speaks a different story. The coalition allowing him to speak. Government collapse on such issues that have no bearing on the national life. At the moment we need SHRl ATAL BlHARl VAJPAYEE : I have been to learn the art of working together. Thls does not asked to seek a vote of confidence by 31st of this apply only when different political parties come month Today, it is 27th. We could have waited till together. This applies w~thinthe party as well. I do 31st if we had so desired, and could have brought not know what curse is there on this country. I do not a this motion on 30th This would have been in know what is plagueing us today. Whenever there is accordance with the directions given to us. But, we crisls in the country, peopje unitedly face il but as have come forward with the motion on 27th itself because we have falth in the democracy and it soon as it is over, they indulge in fighting one another and create unnecessary and irrelevent issues lo ;a not our system to bulld majority somehow. This is not our way The walls of this House...( Interruptions) undermine others. SHRl SlVAJl KAMBLE : The leader of the House 12.00 hrs. is speakmg and they are constantly interrupting him I am not an exception to it. My party is also .not . . (lnterruptfons) an exception. This the work which no signle paty can SHRi ATAL BlHARl VAJPAYEE : I do not mind an 'do. We tried to do but we did not succeed. This is for Interruption here. an$ there, but I should not be we all to decide collectively. I do not know what prevented from speakmg political on figuration the nation will acquire Mr Speaker. Sir. I have come with the motion tomorrow onwards. But one thing is clear that the today. Three days are left However, the previous Government should follow the middle path, Lok Sabha IS witness and the record of the House irrespective of whether there is a one party rule or is a proof to show how the mmority was transformed multiparty rule. The Government should be dedicated into majority overn~ght When the voters were to the cause of people. Each and every conduct of unaware as to what was happening, the honour of the Government should be marked by transparency democracy was being robbed, at that time honesty authencity. This did not take place. Thls dld not was bemg bargained and horse trading of Members happen during the last five years. Why? Are we sure of Parliament was openly taking palce. Since that ,of it that thls will happen in future? - 17 Motion of Conf~dencein JYAISTHA 6, 1918 (Saka) the Council of Minister:

If comes forward with a programme course of our nation. There is no dearth of resources and assures us that because of political ambition In our country and if at all there IS !~PPr! can be and obsession for power no bitter experiences of the mobilised properly. We can add lo our resources. past will be allowed to repeat, only then people may The revenue collected by irnpos~rig taxes on the feel a bit assured. Otherwise people are very people 1s not utillzed for the ben~fltof the common unhappy. There is an apprehension of instability man But whatever resources are available with us looming large. There is a concern for the future of they are also not hemg utilized properiy Where does India. On 29th May, 1964, as a member of Rajya that money go? By whom it is pockeied? In whose Sabha, I made a speech while paylng my tributes to lockers this money goes? Why money is being Panditji. I would like to quote. I had sald that Pandit deposited In the foreign banks even now? What steps Nehru was a fighter for the cause of freedom and have been taken to check it? We are mak~ngefforts was its saviour. Today, that freedom is In peril. for getting foreign Investment. Foreign capital in welcome. If the foreign capital comes for br~nging We will have to protect it w~thall our might. ~h6 better technology, infrastructure and for promoting national unity and integrity which he championed export-import, then we will have no objection to it. I stands endangered today. 'JVe will have to maintain am sure that our communist friends will also not it at all costs. Today, apprehensions are being raised object to it But the point is whether we are makmg about the future of Indian democracy which was the optimum utilization of indegenous resources established and made a great success by Pandit available In the country7 Is it not a fact that the Nehru. We have to make democracy successtul by menace of corruption has assumed national maintaining our un~ty,dlsciphne and self-confidence. d~menslow l remember the late had That leader has gone, leaving behind h~sfollowers sald that when he sent on rupee from De!hl, only 19 The sun has set. We will have to make our Nay palse reached the people targetted for this money. I under the starry n~ghts.Th~s IS the per~odof great asked hlm as to how that miracle was taklng place? test. If we all manage to delcate ourselves to a noble He laughed and said that when rupee beg~nsto cause that could make a strong, capable and trickle, it passes through a process. And In that prosperous nation and contribute'with a sense of process ~t continues to get smaller. Then ~t becomes self pride to the restoration of world peace. Then we difficult to Identify it Also, it may alsappear. The will be able to pay our real tnbutes to that great present condition of rupee is not very good. On the soul. I conclude this part of qotation from my speech. one hand the Governyental expend~turehas gone up and st111 the trend is going unabated We need During the last 50 years we have made enormous support of all the parties for curtailing Governmental progress. Nobody can deny it. At the tlme of election expenditure. No particular party can do ~t.Yes, had campalgn I had enough materials to launch a t~rade our former Prime Minister Narsimha Rao ji having against the polic~esof the previous Government. But achieved stabil~tyof his Government. made some everywhere I had sa~dthat I was not one of those efforts in this direct~on,then we would have definitely who deny the ach~evementof last flfty years To do succeeded in th~smission But he was engaged in so would be fantamount to nullify the ach~evementof such activities that these problems failed to draw Iiis our nation. That would be lnjust~ceto oqr farmers attention and our labourers and infact ~t will not be a good gesture towards the common man of th~scountry At Our foreign trade has gone down. At the this moment. when f~ttyyears heave already elapsed beglnnmg of the century ~t was 10 percent then it came down to 2.50,b and now it stands at 0.5°i..This since independence and we are going to celebrate is the factual position. This is not for the sake of the golden jubilee of our independence the question criticism. The people of the world does not look at us that arises in our mind and that should Indeed arise as different political entities. Our ne~ghbour~ng IS as to what is the condition of this country and - countr~esdo not make any distinction among us. why we have lagged behind? Those countries which Whenever we fail, the world laughs at us. Our came into existance atter us, have left us far behind neighbour pass their comments on us. There is no in the race of development. Today we'are regarded objection if we fight sometimes. One must f~ght.It as one of the poorest country of the world. Here has been said that "Munde M~ndeMattir bhenna." more then twenty percent of the people live below All the people have their different lines of think~ng. the poverty line. The President's address refers to But we should speak out our views fearlessly. But the villages where there is no drlnking water there are some such values of life which as cannot available. We have not bwen at -; to make be compromised. One such value 1s the question of compulsary primary education. Women education is honesty of politicians. We need lmpectable being neglected. To this day the birth of a female leadership. Do you know the extent to which this child in the family is considered to be a curse in this corruption has permeated to the grass root level. country. Is it not possible that the Government take There has been fodder scandal in Bihar steps to mobilise public opinion and create ...(Interruptions) I do not want to go into it as the awakening in the society, This is the work which has matter is under investigation. Thus there is no end no room for party politics. We cannot change the to it. tha Counol of Min~sters 2 0

lhat I: would have plugged al! the loopholes of the was going !o appoir! :!,r ?I ,llr.nan of a State electoral system. There are many aspects involved Electrlclty Board some officers came to h~mwho in 11 But. a step should have been taken in this wanted to grab the post of Chairman by offering me direction. At times, some friends seem to be in favour Rs, one crore. Rs, two crore and five crore. I did not of status quo in the present corrupt and costly system ask him whom he selected for this post. But I have in order to serve their vested interests. This should faith on his statement Today, there is shortage of not happen. Stringent measures should be taken to electric~tyIn the country We are inviting foreign curb the use of black money in elections. We are capital, and we are slgnlng agreements but we are ready to lend our support in this direction. You, too, not able to produce electricity required in this should be ready to co-operate if we initiate the steps. country. The Lok Pal Bill has been gathering dust for several years. Is the Prime Minister above law? Which door I was told that a meeting 'of the Chief Ministers should one knock at when one has a grievance was convened but they could not arrive at a against the Prime Minister or allegations are levelled consensus apparently because of excessive political against him. The issue whether the Prime Minister rivalry. As a result the interests of the country have should be brought under the purview of the Lok Pal taken a back seat in the field of power generation. Bill or not has been discussed for years together. We had fixed a target of 33 thousand megawatt. But the data that we have got to this day reveal that we That day Shri Narasimha Rao had stated that he had given his clearance to bring the Prime Minister have been able to add only 13 thousand megawatt under the purview of the Bill. When I asked about to the existing capacity Uttar Pradesh is complaining the Bill it was not presented. After the adjounment of of power shortage. When I visited Bihar on an the House, that Government was ready to promulgate election campalgn the people of that state and Mr ordinances on matters which could have inflated its Nitish Kuhar told me that the state remains without Vote Bank but not with regard to Lok Pal. An power four days In a week. I do not know ordinance could have been promulgated in this ...(Interruptions Our ancestors used to prey 'Tamso regard also. The other day, my friends were ma Jyotirgamay,' Lead me from darkness to light. But complaining about excessive interference of the their able successors are preparing to take the courts of law. Perhaps Comrade lndrajit Gupta had people from light to darkness. Does it not strike us talked about the judicial activism that day. If the at the core of our heart? Does it call for party based Prime Minister does not discharge his duties, the politics? Executive does not take decisions and keeps matters We have not done anything during the last ten in limbo and when in reply to a question is asked days that would invite critic~smagainst us and if we about his indecisiveness, the Prime Minister, says are given a five years tenure, we will provide a that not taking a decision is also a decision, then it spotless administration. But theie is d question of does not augur well. I am saying so on the basis of bringing about orderliness in the system of newspaper reports. If the news reports are not administration that we have inherited. The President's correct, he can intimate the correct position. address says that we will take up the work of electoral Considering not takmg a decision as a decision, is reforms that has been pending for the last so many a state of culmination of Karmyoga. Country can be years. Where from the expenses in the elections will administered without takmg decisions. At times the be met? If black money is accepted for contesting Government banked upon procrastination in order to elections then one cannot get out of the web of avoid new areas of dispute and left everything to the black money even after elections. This tendency of judgement of the Courts. Now the courts have started accepting black money needs to be changed. giving verdicts in matters which ought to have been decided by the Executive and the Parliament. Why The Goswami Committee was constituted. It cannot the Parliament discharge its duties and take decided upon the issue of state funding and made the responsibilities of the Executive. In order to recommendations to that effect. During the last achieve this, the Executive should be honest and session of the previous Lok Sabha the Minister of virbrant and it should not delay matters. But, It has Home Affairs of the erstwhile Government, Shri not been so. We want to work in this direction. Any Chavan had stated in a meeting of the leaders of the Government that comes to power shall have to opposition parties that the Government had, in achieve that end. Otherwise, one the Government princ~ple,accepted the proposal regarding state may last for 12 days and the other for 6 months. That funding and that it was under consideration of the will be a great injustice to the people of the country. Cabinet and the same would be impl~mentedprior People have perlormed their duty. The electorate is to the ensuing elections. It is not known what fate not responslble for a hung Parliament. We could not did that proposal meet and whether the meeting of probably convey to the voter our message in a proper the Cabinet was held or not? It was not .a manner. Sometimes, the poor turn-out of voters recommendation of large magnitude. I do not claim caused concern as to whether democracy has lost 2 1 Motion of Confidence in JYAISTHA 6, 1918 (Saka) the Cayncil ol Ministers 22 credibility in the eyes of the people? They think that the country People are re-test~ng the old the things will go on like this, whosoever forms the conventlons I wonder whether the recommendat~ons Government. Manthara had said. "Koyi nrip hoye, of the Const~tut~onframers to secure un~formcw~l hamein ka hani." These words of Manthara will not code for the c~tlzensand atk~ngthe state to u~ iold be quoted throughout the country. Governments will them were motivated by communal factors' Is that be formed on the basis of horse-trading and a communal issue? Why cannot we have a un~form defections. The Governments should be based on clvll law when we have a un~formcrlm~nal law Goa programmes and assurance should be given that has a un~formcwll law Our musllm fr~endscan injustice will not be done to the people. Now people apprlse us of any d~ft~cultythey m~ghthave w~th will have their say against injustice. The hon. regard to un~formclvll code They may seek some President invited us. because we emerged as the more tlme to prepare the~rsoclety for the same The single largest party on the basis of our ideology, other partles are also not lnsplrlng them to change programmes and policies. Some of our policies have wlth the changlng times and amend the~rPersonal found mention in the President's Address. Mamata ji law Personal laws are bemg amended in lslam~c countries There IS a need for some change here objected to only one point and I hope she agrees to also It IS an Issue of gender equal~tybut suppose the rest of the Address. I would also like to know they do not agree to ~t that formulation of a Un~form from my other friends if there IS anything CIVII Code IS In accordance w~ththe splrlt of the objectionable in the Address. Is it not the need of constltut~onand now that the Supreme Court has the hour to take unanimous decis~ons,run the v~nd~cated~t Shall we be put In the dock and branded Government on minimum common programmes and communal because we are saylng so? Thls matter strlve to concentrate on them, leaving aside other has nothmg to do w~thcommunal~sm issues However, certain issues need to be deliberated upon. I !elt shocked to learn, trom whatever has appeared in the newspapers and I am saylng on its The biggest allegation levelled against us is that basis that as a Prlme Minster, Shri Naraslmha Rao we are a communal party and we lack secular ji was del~ver~nga speech In Uttar Pradesh before credentials and as such let all the guardians of the the Muslim Community and he had said that he was so called secularism unite and vote the BJP out of nothing to enact such a law against their consent I power. do not like, ~fthe hon. Prime Mmister of the country Democracy is a game of numbers whlch IS not in speaks such a language. If the Prme Mm~sterhas our favour. We have got the largest popular mandate. no power in th~sregard then who has the power In th~scountry? He is the supreme representative of [E ng lis h] the people.

SHRI SURESH KALMADI () : Only 20 [English] percent...(Interruptions) SHRl PV NARASIMHA RAO (Berhampur) I do [Translation] not know why the Pr~meMm~ster IS m~squotrngme. Sir What I sald was rlght from Shr~mat~lnd~ra SHRl ATAL BlHARl VAJPAYEE : Kalmadi saheb, Gandhl's days, there was a clear announcement from it IS difficult for others to appreciate what you say. the Government of lnd~ahere In th~sYouse that the Mr Speaker, Sir, this aspect should also be personal law of a section of people any sect~onof debated Once we had a strength of only two people, w~llnot be changed w~thcutconsulting them. Members in this House First time, we had four without taklng therr consent and against the~r Members. consent Thls IS exactly what I sa~dat that meet~ng AN HON. MEMBER . That day will come again.

SHRl ATAL BlHARl VAJPAYEE : In that case, we SHRl ATAL BlHARl VAJPAYEE : Mr. Speaker. Sir, will face the situation. Today, we are present in the community and the society in which the change largest strength and you stand no where in is to be brought, should be made prepared for it and comparison. But we are humble in our vlctory. Defeat there should be no objection in it. This is easy and should pave way for self-introspection natural for the democracy but the veto should not be SHRl MRUTYUNJAYA NAYAK : you had emerged handed over in anyone's hands. H~ndusoclety IS dynamic, changes have undergane in H~ndusociety victorious what happened later' and the process of change is still goirg on Memor~es SHRl ATAL BlHARl VAJPA'YEE : You were ruling have changed. The memory on the basis of whlch the whole country. What is the situat~onnow? If you we are working today is our Constitution and Dr. are content with this situation then I have nothing to Ambedker, the maker of our Constitution. Our soclety say. I do not want to stretch it loo far IS not static. Today, people are engaged in deep thlnklng. CR. SHAFIOUR RAHMAN BAR0 (Moradabad) : The dlrectlon of contemplation IS now changmg in He was not the maker of the Muslim Personal Law. 2 3 Motron of Confidence in MAY 27. 1996 the Cou~cilof Ministers 24

SHRl ATAL BlHARl VAJPAYEE : Mr. Speaker, Sir, SHRl QAMARUL ISLAM : Cer!ain measures have I would like to cite one more example. I would not to be adopted for that ...(Interruptions) like to go into the aeta~isa! this subject. From our SHRI SONTOSH MOHAN DEV (Silchar) : Mr. neighbourlng country. . Prime Minister, you started very well, I would expect SHRl QAMARULD ISLAM (Gulbujr];..) . I want that that you would keep it on the track and that you the hon. Prime Min~stershould not speak much on would confine your speech to the Motion of thls topic. lsiamlc Law is a divlne law. Personal law Confidence ...(Interrupt~ons) You have not brought any can not be brought In th~sHouse forcibly for controversial point in the Presidenl's Address also. discussion. No caste ran put pressure on it. The You should not bring it here also. It would be better, Constitution permits this much only. I am just appealing to you. .(lnterrupt~onsJThen we also would have to change our speakers for the Motion ...(Interruptions) We have to bring analogy I! is a dlvine law and it cannot be changed. .. (Interruptions) It is better if you could avoid it. Islamic law IS a d~vlnelaw and it cannot be changed SHRl SATYADEV SiNGH (Balrampur) : You listen SHRl I D SWAMI (Karnal) You have to ar-.ept the truth. tne Const~fution iinterruptlons) KUMARI MAMATA BANEHJEE (Calcutta South) : [Translation] What is the truth? ...(Interruptionsj SHHl ArAL BIHARI VAJPAYEE Mr Speaker Slr, [Transla tion] I was going to clte one more example The lnflltrators are comlng In a laroe number from one of our It is not the right way. .(Interruptions) ne~ghbouring countries There are no proper SHRl ATAL BlHARl VAJPAYEE : Mr. Speaker, Sir, arrangements at the border No enquiry IS made I have always been giving weightage to what Santosh available If somoorle comes for a lob and returns Mohan Dev jl says He might have received the report after completlng ~t then ~tthen !! ,r a sr.. arate thing when a big demonstration was held in Karlmganj on The arrangement of work permlt can be made for the issue of infiltrators from Bangaladesh. It was not such peoplc tr~tthe report of the Home Mlnlstry the power show of our party. It was an expression of says that the ~nliltratnrscome In lakhs througCl the apprehension of the people. A large number of rlvers and by hiolng In the bushes Th~sgwes rlse to people took part In the demonstration since they felt . a serious sltuatic~n1 his 1s not the report of our Home that infiltrat~onof foreigners should be stopped. Such Mlnlstry It 15 a7 old report that the people are comlng how they are ralsing volces that ~t should a large number of infiltrators will put our future in 1 be stopped because ~t IS changmg the shape of dark On tha! day had said so In my speech and he populat~~~nin the bordering areas The had sald that I had said right I had said that it is not discontentment and tension are mountlng tnere The the questlon of Hlndu-Muslim..(Interruptions) When old r~cksnawp~llers in Delhi are complalnlng that we keep In hind that the Increase In population has they are getting less tare on accoun! of these people more se:lous Impacts, the importance and slnce the rrlcoming people are ready to work on seriousness of this question is increased. The fateful cheaper wages history of the divlslon of our country IS before us. It SHRl CHATURANAN MISHRA (Madhubanl) It must be stopped. There should be unanimity on this should be both for the Hlndus and the Musllms issue. If you give co-operation then we can shoulder the responsibility of unanlmlty SHR, ATAL BlHARl VAJPAYEE Mr Speaker Sir 11 has its own Impact Now 11 IS sald that do npt Now I would l~keto raise one another issue speak on R and keep mum as ~t IS related to the SHRl G.M. BANATWALLA (Ponnani) : ~troiities votes of the rrllnor tles I am at a los~to know why are committed on the innocent city dwellers in the the other partles do no! speak on ~t None of the name ol mlgrants countries can toleiate illegal ~fnrnlgeratlonIn such a large scale It 1s alright that 11 can not be stopped SHRl ATAL 9IHARI VAJPAYEE It is wrong fully but ~t is a problem and 11 should be checked If SHRl G M BANATWALLA : There IS such a party we ralse the volce rt 1s In favour of the nation and with you, whose President has sald and left it on the not for the votes The people should understand 11 cadre of the Muslims of your party to find out those innocents and commit atrocities on them. SHRl ATAL BlHARl VAJPAYEE : Who has left? It SHRl E AHMED (Manjerl) Why are you taklng is wrong (Interruptions) the name of the Musllm soclety as the wh~pplng boys In overythmg You are always referrlng to the SHRl G.M. BANATWALLA :You tell all the things mlnorltles and the mlnorltles If there IS anythmg, ~t In a riqht way but the fact is being neglected should be appl~cabletc all (Interrupt~ons) . . . (Interrupfions) 2 5 Motion of Confidence rn JYAISTHA 6. 1918 (Saka) the Councrl of Ministers 2 6

SHRl ATAL BlHARl VAJPAYEE : Mr. Speaker, Sir, not suppressed'Bengalis there, we have driven out action shoule be taken against only those who enter only three foreigners who have infiltrated from by violating the law. We are not in favour and there Bengaladesh and it is our sacred duty to do so is no question of extradition of the citizens of our . .(Interruptions) Mr. Speaker, Sir. I did not want such country, even if they belong to any religion or a controversy to be raised here. I was just giving community, specially the Bengalise who are already example to show that why we are being branded as settled here and the Bengali Muslims as well, who non-secular. But why we are being called non- are in a large number in our country ...(Interruptions) secular The issues of a Uniform Civil Code and infiltration of Bangladesh~s are some of the points SHRl G.M. BANATWALLA i Bengali is afraid of which we raise here in the interest of the country. speaking Bengali Bengali in can not speak Some peapie may disagree w~thus. Now the poison his own language. ..(Inferruptrons) of castlsrn 15 being spread in the country along with SHRl MOHAN RAWALE (Mumbai South-Central) commun~l~smWhich is no less dangero~sthan The Muslims of Mumbai have supported the Shiv comrr~unallsni 6ut that is not the point of d~scusslon Sena.. (Interrupt~ons) here because I: may hamper the process of alliance wlth other parlrss and 11 creates obstr~ict~onin the SHRI B.L. SHARMA PREM (East Delhi) : Please way of getting I~IE seat of pc~wer..,'/nterruptions) Mr cite even a single example of Delhi. .flnterrupbons) Speaker. Sir, a very senior Member of !Ills House and an old colleag~eof mine Shri Rr!u Fhtnaik has [English] ' raiser! very impor;snt issue he:? I woi;lc irke to say SHRl PRlYA RANJAN DAS MUNSl (Howrah) . that on the issue of secuiarisni we must talk with an Sir, a appeal td the Prime Mlnister to k~ndlycoine to 0,-en rnrnd and witn some seriousless the motion under ~~SC~JSSIO~.(lnterruptrons) ..~lnferrupt~ons)The Bhartlya Janata P~rtyhas made MR. SPrdKER : The Prime Min~sterhas yle!ued it clear on more thar! one occsslon that they are to Mr. Patnaik. comm~ttedto the constitut~on,to the secularism as enshr~nedin the Constitution (Interrupt~ons)The [Transla trorr] state should be secula: India has always bee? a secular state There will be nr; danger to tne secular SHRl MADHUKAR SAHPOTDAR IMumbai North- structure of the country In future They must West) , Mr. Speaker, Sir whether anything wrong be understand it . .(lnterrupt~ons) said about a part~cularparty here I1 he is to say some!hing like this then, he should ment~onthe name SHRl RAM VlLAS PASWAN (! Hoa ?,any also. The reality is somethlrlg else We are ready to Mush M Ps. are there in your Party.. (1nterrupt:ons) face that. But I would like to submit that the wav he SHRI ATAL BlHARl VAJPAYEE Th~sis no! the has put forth his ideas In the House is a contempt crrterra for ~t Please do not ask such quesl n of the House . (Interruptions) (In t~rrupt~ons) SHRl MOHA'h) RAWALE It should be expunged SHRl NAVAL KISH'JH FlA! I Srtamarhi) What from the record. happened to the promise made by the BJP In the Nat~onal~ntegrat~on councll for protecting the [English] constitution (Interruptionsj SHRl BlJU PATNAIK (Aska) : Mr Prime Minister. SHRl ATAL BIHARI VAJPAYEE Irl such a situatmr. you started so well on your line of persuasion. Many I cannot speak about 11 (lnterruptrons) of us thought that we will go and joln you, but in the SHRl LAL MUNl CHAUBE , The M.P. elected fror~; mean-time you touched on points that disuaded us Sitamarh~ knows .very we!l as to wt,o we:e from joining. Do you real~sewhat you have done responsible for tombntlng riots there He himself 15 and why you have done ~t?When you talk of a big rioter and he is speaking here The r~oterswho secularism and non-secularism, you are propagating have come here after winning ihe elect~onwants ta the voice of non-secularism, and why? That was not save secularism from destruction. They themselves your intention Why have you done it' ..(Interruptions) foment the riots I have a IIS! with me. The responsibility of the riots that took place at Sitamarh~ [Translatron] falls on the M.P. of that area ;lnterruptlons; SHRl LAL MUNl CHAUBE (Buxar) : I am on a SHRl ATAL BlHARl VAJPAYCE Mr Speaker, Sir, point of order. lndla was not born dur~ngthe last 50 years It IS an SHRl RAM NAlK (Mumbai North) : Mr. Speaker, ancient natlon. It IS not a flew country, that was born Sir, I represent Mumbai here. I got the highest in 1947 The c~v~lisatrc~nand the culture of this number of votes not only in the entire city of Mumbai country is 5000 years old It IS for thrs reason that but in the whole of . I would like to tell when the constituent Assembly was discussong on You that no other riot free city with a healthy the question of Secular~srnor the splrlt of Secular~sm, atmosphere like Mumbai exists in India. We have different views were expressed on it But the framers 27 Motron of Confidence in MAY 27, 1996 ll~dCotini.11 of hl~nr.:ris 2 8

of the Constitution did not incorporate the word SHRl HARBHAJAN LAKHA : It is the secular in the Constitution. The word 'Secular' was fundamentals of Manusmriti that have enslaved the incorporated in the preamble of the Constitution adivaasis of th~scountry. Baba Bhimrao Ambedkar during emergency when several leaders were In jails had condemned Manusmrit~and gave a new and there was no freedom of expression. At that constitutton to this country bul you people profess time amendment to the constitution was brought. something and in practice do something else. Earlier, the nninion was that the preamble of the SHRl ATAL BlHARl VAJPAYEE : Mr. Speaker, I constitution snould and shall not be amended but admit that there are some controversial issues which it was amended and lndia was declared secular excite the discussion. But infact discussion should and socialist Republic along with Democratic Republic. I have gone through the discussion on this take place in a systematic way. If I am interrupted subject carefully. again and again then I will not be able to complete my speech. You are more in number so you have At that time every speaker belonging to the come here with a decision not to let me speak Congress Party especially Sardar Swarn Singh had ...(Interruptions) emphasized that their secularism would be quite different from that of the Western countries. He said SHRl LAL MUNl CHAUBE : If this practice is that since lndia is a multireligious country and allowed to continue you would also not be allowed secularism means that there should not be any to speak ...(Interruptions) discrimination against the followers of different SHRl ATAL BlHARl VAJPAYEE : Mr Speaker, Sir, religions and all r ellgions should be equally t reated. the time has come when we should see our old We whole heartedly accept this interpretation of r values in the context of changing situations today. eligion. This 1s the quintessence of Hindu ideology. Communalism is not of one klnd. If one kind of This marks our identity. lndia is a country of many communalism is st~rredup then another klnd of religions and ideologies. There IS no one religious communal~smwill rise Thls fact has not been book or prophet in this country We have believers reallsed to this day. as well as non-behevers in God Here no one was crucified or was done to death by stonmg. This kind No call of oppression on the people on the basis of tolerence is found in the soil of this country. They of religion and ideological difference has ever been say "Ekoham Sadwipra Bahudha Vadanti" and now made In this country and will never be made and that philosophy has gone even beyond that. Ours is should not be made and if it is made then he .will a country of different ideologies ..(Interruptions) oppose it to the hilt. We want to give you this Shr~ has prevented me to raise this assurance. lndia should remain a secular state. We issue and now he is inciting me...(Interruptions) This will never make our country a theocratic state like 1s the difficulty. The Ayodhya incideent took place our neighbouring countries. But does it mean that later but we are belng branded'as communalists and we do not have our own roots of civilisation? Does non-secular much before it. This s ort of propaganda it mean that we have no values of life? We have from your slde Is politically motivated and not based inherited this ancient civilisation and culture which on facts... (Interruptions) are SO00 years old. We are proud of it. This civilisation and culture have moulded our life. In SHRl BlJU PATNAIK : Please leave this issue what direction our life is going now a days? and go ahead. SHRl MUNAVVAR HUSAN (Kalrana) : If you are I recall those hys when Pt Jawahar Lal Nehru not communalist then how many muslims have won went to the Allgarh University to deliver a speech as MP on your Party ticket ...(Interruptions) after the unfortunate partition of the country. It was a convocati~nfunction, I would quote a portion of SHRl ATAL BlHARl VAJPAYEE : Mr. Speaker, Sir, his speech before you : it is an ancient country and it has a way of life which is not conflned to one particular community. That [English] way of life is thousands of years old. Every one has "I have said that I am proud of my contributed in build~ngit ...(Interrupt~ons) inheritance and our ancestors who gave SHRl HARBHAJAN LAKHA (Phillaur) : All that an intellectual and cultural pre-eminence the Hon. Prime Minister is saying about to India. How do you feel about this past? communalism IS based on Manusmriti and these Do you feel that we are sharers in it and communal people are implementing the principles of inheritors in it and, therefore, proud of Manusmriti. something that belongs to you as much as SHRl ATAL BlHAAl VAJPAYEE : This country to me or do you feel alien to it? Was It would remain non-communal. lndia will not become without understanding that strange thrill a theocratic s tate ...(Interruptions) which comes from the realisation that we 2 Q Motlon of Confidence in JYAISTHA 6, 1918 (Sake) the Council of Ministers 3 0

are the trustees and inheritors of this vast [Trans la tion] treasure? You are a Muslim and I am a SHRl ATAL BlHARl VAJPAYEE : Mr. Speaker, Sir, Hindu. We may adhere to different this was not discussed seriously. It should be done. religious faiths or even to none but that We are understanding a stark truth. In this country, does not take away that inheritance, that Hindus are in large numbers. But they are developing is yours as well as mine. The past holds minority camp like feelings. If there is complex among us together whilst the present or the future the minority, then I can understand, as they are divides us in a split." numerically less. They can talk of protection. And protection should be provided to them. This is the [Transla tlon] duty of the State. Therefore, when we stress on the These are the views of Nehruji. nation's security, we also lay stress on the fact that life, property, honour and religion of every citizen of There is need to go through again whatever the country should be protected. Along with this, it IS Nehru had written in his last document and which also necessary to say that, life, property, and honour have become part of our curriculam. No one can of every citizen in the country should be protecq2d. brand Nehru as Orthodox. Nehru had mentioned that inheritance which we have got through centuries. I was mentioning the foreigners who came to lndia after suffering oppression in their own country. He had showered praises that we keep our mind How can the pains of those people can be forgotten, open. But It was also said that we are strong enough who have fled Kashmir Valley after being oppressed. to stay firm on our feet. Whether this sort of common A large number of Hindus and also Muslims are inheritence and cultural inheritence IS permissible? suffering due to terrorism. But no party will speak on Can we be proud of this past? the need for their rehabilitation and soothing their Several foreigners came here. They were wounds if any one speaks, it is us, and therefore we accepted and admitted to our fold. We did not close would be branded communal. They are also citizens our doors for those who were innocent and were of the country. It IS not their fault. uprooted. We accommodated every one. Those who [English] were victims of oppression in thier own country found shelter here. The first mosque was built in Kerala DR. ARUN KUMAR SARMA (Lakhimpur) . At the with the permission of the Hindu king. The first Church cost of smaller nationalities ...(Interrupt~ons) was also built in Kerala, with permission. This is in SHRl ATAL BlHARl VAJPAYEE : Sufism developed our blood. This is in our system, rhere should not be in Kashmir. It developed out of the interaction discrimination on religious grounds. Everyone should between the Hindu and Muslim thinkers. I am aware have religious freedom. Everyone should be treated how the Muslims extend their help to the pilgrims equally. But this is not happening. Therefore, goind to Somnath temple. The pilgrims are taken on problems are arising and people are becoming the shoulders. The financial offerings ...(Interruptions) apprehensive. You will not remove these in Amarnath. apprehensions, as you are interested in vote politics. KUMARI MAMATA BANERJEE : That is not But, I want to say that there is a need to arrive at a Somnath, but Amarnath ...(Interruptions) consensus on these matters. The Supreme Court SHRl ATAL BlHARl VAJPAYEE : All the Naths gave its verdict on the Shah Bano case. Consensus (God) appear same to me ...(1nterruptions.J The Muslim could have been arrived at and steps towards this brothers get a share out of it. Who wants to break could have been taken. But it was not done so. this tradition? This is being attempted in a planned manner. Attempt is also being made from across the [English] border. Afterall, why was Charar-e-Sharif burnt? MR. SPEAKER : Mr. Prime Minister, would you Those terrorists did not like that Sufism should like to conclude before lunch break, that is within spread in the valley of Kashmir, among the saffron five minutes from now, or would you like to continue beds. They did not want that people of diverse after lunch break? religion and castes should live in harmony. In the post-election scenario, in some quarters, it is expected that lndia would become weak, unstable and the nation would diverge from its objectives. I SHRl ATAL BlHARl VAJPAYEE : Mr. Speaker, Sir, want to warn such external and internal forces that five minutes would not be sufflclent. any change that would take place, would not be insurmountable. We would adapt and mould ourselves to those changes that would take place. MR. SPEAKER : We may have lunch break. You But we would thoroughly safeguard the national may continue after lunch break. interest. 3 1 Announcement Re: MAY 27, 1996 Motion of Confidence in 32 Panel of Chairmen tho Council of Ministers

There are some policies in the country, on which 4. Shrl P.M. Sayeed there is a broad consensus. The former Government 5. Shrimati Vijaya Raje Scindia also sought consensus. In has been trom the days 6. Prof. Rita Verma of Nehru. When I spoke for the first time on foreign policy, I told Panditji that the non-aligned policy was 13.02 hrs. not his personal policy. Even if you had not been here, the country would have followed the path of The Lok Sabhe then adjourned for Lunch till non-alignement. The country cannot make the Fourteen of the Clock. mistake of aligning with any particular group. We are a very strong and vast country and can not be cowed down. We fought for our independence and 14.01 hrs. for the freedom of other nations. How can we align with any group? Non-alignment was the right policy The Lok Sabha re-assembled After Lunch at One which the nation has pursued. Minute past Fourteen of the Clock

13.00 hrs. (Mr. Speaker in the Chair) But due to the end of the cold war, new problems MOTION OF CONFIDENCE IN THE COUNCIL are emerging. Security situation has deteriorated all OF MINISTERS - CONTD. around us. In such a transitional phase, pressures are expected to rise economic pressure as well as - [Transla tion] security pressure. As far as our Government is concerned, we will not succumb to any pressure. THE, PRIME MINISTER (SHRI ATAL BlHARl Thls assurance I want to give you. And 1 am sure VAJPAYEE) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, while concluding my that the entire nation and the House will extend its speech, I want to raise one issue. cooperation lo me in this matter. There is unanimity in the House and in the Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would conclude my speech country that due to historical reasons and due to the after lunch. shortcomings in our social set up, justice has not been meted out to the Scheduled Castes and [English] Scheduled Tribes. Equal opportunity was not MR. SPEAKER : Mr. Prime Minister, I should available to them and therefore they kept on lagging inform you that the total time available for the BJP behind. They could not keep pace with the other is one hour and fifty-six minutes out of which one groups of the society. The framers of our Constitution hour and seventeen minutes have already been had reflected on this and provided for reservations, consumad. for the Scheduled Castes, Scheduled Tribes and other (Interruptions) Backward Classes, who are socially and educationally backward. All decisions on reservations MR. SPEAKER : I am just informing. The Prime were taken unanimously. There has been a Minister can take any amount of time. consensus on this. After the verdict of the Supreme (Interruptions) Court on this issue, it has been decided that SHRl ATAL BlHARl VAJPAYEE : What about the regarding reservations for the Backward Classes, interruptions? status quo would be maintained, i.e., in those states where reservation is more than 50 percent, it would continue. But in other States, reservations for the Backward Classes should not exceed 50 percent. ia.01H hrs. Dr. Ambedkar also, in the Constituent Assembly supported the vlew that the reservation limit should ANNOUNCEMENT RE: PANEL OF CHAIRMEN be 50 percent. The remaining 50 percent should be left for competition. In this, the Supreme Court also [English] discussed the issue of creamy layer. It was of the MR. SPEAKER : Hon. Members, I have to inform view that. a Committee should be set up to Identify that under Rule 9 of the Rules of Procedure, I have the creamy layer. The backwards among the B,ackwards should be benefited first. Late Shri ,, ,, nominated the following Members as Members ot the Panel of Chairmen : of Bihar was concerned for the poorest among the poors. Those among the Backward 1. Shri China Basu Classes who are prosperous, who have lands, have 2. Shri influence In the village, are capable of progresslng 3. Shrimati Geeta Mukherjee on their own. They are capable of standlng on their 33 Motion of Confidence in JYAISTHA 6, 1918 (Sake) the Council of Ministers 34

own feet. There is no need for reservation for such MR. SPEAKER : That is the internal decision of people. But several States did not implement the the party. Supreme Court's verdict on this issue honestly. Different reasons have been given and attempts have [Trans la tion] been made to make that verdict infructous. In this SHRl SHARAD PAWAR (Baramati) : Before connection there is a need to formulate a clear and opposing this no-confidence motion, I offer my definite policy after consulting all political parties tributes to the respected late Prime Minister,, Shri and discussing different groups in the society. , the architect of modern 'India. He Mr. Speaker, Sir, there is another aspect to this was a true democrat and always held Parliamentary problem. We are committed to social justice. Justice democracy in high esteem. For several years he was should be done to those who have been denied it so present in the Parliament to safeguard democracy. I far, and at a faster pace. Discr~ininatior~should end seek his forgiveness that, today a person is Prime in society. Help of the law has been sought for this. Minister who has not majority in the House and While doing away with disparities it is essential that democracy has been shamed ...(Interruptions) social ill-wlll should not be fermented and casteism should not be encouraged. Today, the country seems SHRl RAM NAlK : Last time, who got the majority. to be divided on the issue of casteism. This poison of casteism is spreading in all classes of society. So [English] much so that it can not be said with certainty tha!, MR. SPEAKER : Please take you seat. You have services remain unaffected with casteism. This no right to intervene. situation is worrisome for all. The nation is already beset with communal problem and if we do not take [Transla tion] care of this problem, then a new problem will arise, SHRl SHARAD PAWAR : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I respect which will harm the social structure and create the Prime Minister very much. He is a gentleman. He problems in the villages i.e, in every corner of the is honourable. Though in the Sangh Parivar, he has country. We need social equality and social harmony maintained his poetle feelings. And has alway tried also. to have balanced views. He has also tried to steer We took steps to institute and develop his party towards Gandhian Socialism. When the Panchayati Raj Institutions, ensured participation of Babri Masjid was demolished ...(Interruptions) He all, specially gave the women their right. If best said. results of this step is to be achieved, then along with that, a change in outlook in this regard is also [English] essential. I am misfit in polities. I am sure that the House would also pay attention to this question. And a unanimous policy in this [Trans la tion] regard would be formulated, that would strengthen Even after respecting him so much. I social justice without disturbing the soclal harmony. ...(lnterruptions) ... Even after respecting him so Harmony does not imply that social evils should be much, I consider it my duty to oppose the confidence tolerated, Nor does it mean that the backwards and oppressed should be maltreated. But harmony motion, because far from getting a majority, he has means that, we all being the sons and daughters of not got even on-third seats. And he has occupied mother Indla, we have to solve our' problems here ...(lnterruptions) amicably. We should feel the pains of others and SHRl HARlN PATHAK (Ahmedabad) : How many respect their sentiments. Any reform, bereft of seat have you got? inherent mercy or sentiment, can be effective only SHRI SHARAD PAWAR : After getting support of partially. But cannot bring permanent change in the all colleagues ...(Interruptions) Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am society. The need is for steps to be taken to usher feeling it very painful. You are sitting at this place in permanent change in society. ,. /. without getting even one-third seats. They may have [English] to repent over this act. I can understand your agony. The Bhartiya has come into power and SHRl RAM NAlK (Mumbai North) : Is the Leader of the Opposltion not speaking? ...(Interruptions) I am crores of people of this country have become more on a point of Information. concerned. It seems that they will not be able to get support of more than 190 M.Ps ...(lnterruptions) Even AN HON. MEMBER : That Is our choice. then the hon'ble Presldent invited the BJP to form SHRl RAM NAlK : It might be your choice, But I the Government being the single largest Party. I have am asking the Speaker as to whether the Leader of no grudge against it. But I am surprised that If they the Opposltlon in speaklng or not. knew ...(lnterruptkns) If they did not have full support, 3 5 Motion of Confidonco in MAY 27, 1996 tho Council of Mlnlstsrs 3 6

why did they try to form the Government? They have majority. He always saved the dignity of political and disgraced the democracy In some way. They do not democratic set up of this Institution. When Shri Morarji have the majority. The number of votes polled in Desai had resigned from the Prime Ministership, the their support is less in comparison of that of hon'ble President had given a chance to late Congress Party. It is claimed that they have got the Yashwant Rao Chavan to form the Government. But mandate but they got less votes as against Congress since he did not have absolute majority, in the House,

a ...(lnterruptions) he had not formed the Government. This is also a history of Parliament of this country ...(Interruptions) [English] SHRl MOHAN RAWALE : He had tried SHRl GUMAN MAL LODHA (Pali) : Hon. Speaker, . . .(Interruptions) Sir, I have got a point of order. SHRl SHARAD PAWAR : Not at all. He did not ,. ,. SHRl SURESH KALMADI (Pune) : Under what take oath on knowing that he has not absolute rules are you raising it? majority ...(Interruptions) i do not know as to who has SHRl GUMAN MAL LODHA : Sir, the hon. given advice ...(Interruptions) He has broken the vow President had invited Mr. Vajpayee to form the of celibacy for unknown bride. Those who always Government. It is an aspersion on the hon. President. talk of morality, are enjoying power today in spite of having no hope for absolute majority in the House. [Translation] it is good that the people of this country have They say that they had disgraced ...(Interruptions) experienced the Government of BJP during the last 8 to 10 days. it will be written in the history of our [English] country that by staking false claim of getting absolute majority, BJP has blemished the democractic tradition MR, SPEAKER : Point of order can be raised I of the country for getting power only for a few days. under a specific ruie. What is the ruie under which They can make themselves to forget it but not this you are raising it? You were a Chief Justice of High House and the country too. Court, you should know the rule. Galib has said : DR. DEB1 PROSAD PAL (Calcutta North East) : They were fully aware that they cannot form the "Maine Mana ki Kuchh Nahin Galib, Government by any means ...(Interruptions) Muff Me Aaye To Bura kya Hai."

[Trans la tion] it was said by the BJP that unless the Party gets 225 seats, it will not make claim tor Prime SHRl SHARAD PAWAR : It has been said that Ministership. They will not, be allowed to indulge in BJP has got mandate. Mr. Speaker, Sir, BJP has got horse trading after forming the Government. Today, less votes as compared to Congress. BJP has got hon'ble Prime Minister has also said here that they not a single seat in 19 States of India. At the same do not want to indulge in horse trading. I do not time, it has got no support. Except getting one seat want to speak more over this. But on the basis of in Assam it has got not even a single seat in the what has been published in the newspaper, I want entire North-East, West Bengal, Orissa, Kerala, Tamil to tell about whatever has happened during the last Nadu, Andhra Pradesh, Goa and Punjab States. in 5-10 days. Many Members who are sitting in this spite of this, it is said that they have got mandate. House know it. They know as to why they were Here, it has been said repeatedly...( Interruptions) contacted. They know about the suggestions, they Whatever you are saying, is absolutely right. This were given. But I want to know as to why they tried time congress has not got good response. I agree to form the Government in spite of not having majorlty wit.h it, but it is a fact that the Congress has got in the House. i am sure that they wanted to resort to seats in 26 States. In this House the BJP respresents horse trading. It is unfortunate tor them and it is our Only a few parts of the country whereas, I am glad good luck as well that nobody cooperated with them. to say that, today the Congress Party respresents It has been mentioned by the Prime Minister while the most of the biggest parts of the country. This is replying on the President's Address that he has made the situation. efforts to gain majority. It is true that there is mention Sir, has the BJP got more seats In comparison in the Presidents Address about Article 370 and the with the seats which'fhe Congress Party got in 1989? issue of Ayodhya Temple. Then, why they are making false claim that they It is also true that no mention has been made in have got mandate? You may remember that the the President's Address about common civil code. Congress Party had got more seats earlier, under Whatever change we are experiencing, it not true. 'm readership of late Rajivjl, in comparison with the The point of national consensus which has been seat8 won by the BJP today in thls House. But Rajivji raised today is also not a change. The Government never clalmed to form the Government nnthout getting of Maharasthra should once agaln think over Shri 37 Motion of Confidence in JYAISTHA 6: 1918 (Sake) the Council of Ministers 3 8

Krishan Commission. It is not a change whatever that though we were defeated and our number has had peen said yesterday. Shri Atal Bihari Vajpayee decreased but there is no doub' that Congress Party is a senior leader of the BJP. BJP- alliance will start its work to strengthen the people of the is ruling in Maharashtra for the last one year. They entire country, particularly backward classes. scrapped the Shri Krishan Commission and got the Observing the condition of the country hon'ble Prime good work stopped there and rendered help to save Minister said that our country needs stability. On this gundas. So i would like to ask the hon'ble Prime point I agree with him. He said that we should pay Minister as to why he was keeping m_um that time? attention to the progress made by the neighbouring ...(lnterruptions) This change and generosity is only countries. I agree with him but this may be possible for getting power. There is no intention of change only when the forces having faith in social and behind this generosity. national unity will be strengthened. You may call that a coalition Government but unless that coalition Mr. Speaker, Sir, there is a couplet in Urdu "Mere comes into power our country can not make progress. Shahar Ki lnayaton Se Bachkar Rahe, Yeh Sir Ka we oppose the BJP because we do not agree with Bohh Nahin Sir Uttaar Leti Hain." ...(Interruptions) You it ideology. may think over the developments which have taken place during the last five or six days. When they Today, hon'ble Pr~meMinister has expressed his could not succeed in getting majority, they started views on secularism. The question is that only saying that the election will b: held sgain in the expression of views is not su cient but people be assured on the action taken t implement them. RSS country and Parliament will be dissolved ? and its associate BJP have faith in the antiquated ...(lnterruptions) To whom this threat has been given? Hindu nationalism. They published the ideology of We are not afraid of this threat. The forces having Hundutva and Hindu nationalism in their election faith in secularism, are still alive and they will prove manifesto. They assured to construct the majority...( Interruptions) Congress Party could not get controversial Ram temple. Yesterday, durlng a good response in the Lok Sabha elections. In this meeting in Lucknow the hon'ble Prime Minister had context Hon'ble Prime Minister has expressed some spoken about construction of Ram temple vlews before the House. I agree that our number has ...(lnterruptions) BJP says that they are committed to decreased ...(Interruptions) The situation like this contruct Ram temple but Mathura and Kashi are not generally arise in the life of Political Parties. I included in their agenda. The question is not about remember that I was also elected and had opportunity Ram temple but the RSS is a organisation which has to sit in this House when out of 80, only two member multi-voices.. .(Interruptions) were elected from ycur Party...( lnterruptions) Remember the economic condition of the country [English] was very bad five years back. At that tme Congress MR. SPEAKER : What are you d~ing? Party had taken several important steps under the leadership of the Prime Minister Narasimha Raoji to Improve the economic condition. MR. SPEAKER : What are you doing? Please sit What was the condition of Punjab five years ago? down. Now I think that there is no nbad :3 $;:y that there [Trans la tion] is peace in Punjab. The election process has been completed in a proper way in Punjab. With the SHRl SHARAD PAWAR : BJP says that it is in~tiativeof Congress, democracy has been revoked committed to construct Ram temple but Mathura and there. Then election process started in Kashmir. BJP Kashi are not at its agenda. But its ally Vishava was one of the Parties which were crying for election Hindu Parishad talks of constructing temples in process. In this way, participating in the elections Mathura. and Kashi too.. What is your reaction to this the people of Kashmir have shown the entlre country fact?.. .(Interruptions) that the steps taken by the Congress Party to begin [English] election process were right. The people ot Kashmir were satisfied with these steps. You had protested KUMARI MAMATA BANERJEE : What is this, the election process in Kashmir ...(lnterruptrons) Sir? ...(Interruptrons) During these five years we have completed so many MR. SPEAKER : Please, look hh. You are all good works but we could not approach the people to responsible Members of this House. The whole tell them about these good works..(Interruptions) and country is watching you. Live telecast is going on. we had to pay its cost ...(lnterruptions). It is not so Please behave decently. You are all representatlves that Congress Party has never faced defeat after of the people. Independence. Congress had faced defeat twice [Translation] before this. In splte of that they continued their work for upliftment of backward classes and also SHRl SHARAD PAWAR : I felt very happy when maintalned relation with them. I woc!l like to say the hon'ble Prime Minister said here that there 3 9 Motion of Confidence in MAY 27, 1996 the Council of Mlnistors 4 0 should be no discrimination in the ,name of religion. Vajpayeeji. But for the first time I found that hls Only one muslim representative has been elected in speech was neither sharp nor had any speclfic the BJP in the polls. It has been direction. .. (Interruptions) published in the lastest issue of 'Economics' of London that- 14.41 hrs. (Shrl P.M. Sayeed in the Chair) [E nglis h] It may be that I could not understand but the "BJP has a few ornamental Muslims in its ranks." whole country is listenlng to him. I was looking at Shri Atalji. He himself was feeling that today his [Transla tion] speech was not that sharp and effective Sikandr Bakht became happy after hearing this. ...(Interruptions) I though that Shri Sikandr Bakht is not an ostentatious person. He supported BJP even after [English] demolition of Babri Mosque. I know that keeping in - MR. CHAIRMAN : Kindly do not interrupt. You view his seniority and whole heartedly service are a senior Member. You know, when he yields to rendered for BJP for so many years, he Hill get you then only you can speak. Please do not interrupt. M~nistershipbut even after taking an oath of Ministership he had to wait for 5 to 6 days for a good [Translation] department. Hon'ble Prime Minister says that there SHRl RAM VlLAS PASWAN : I have not said should be no discrimination in the name of religion. anything which requires any comment from him. I I agree 4th him on this point. Does any action would like to make some points. seems? BJP wants to rule the country on the basis of only 23 percent votes it has got in the elections. First of all I would like to submit that this When we protested it, they started publicising that a Government has said something about mandate. Just conspiracy was being done against the BJP. Threats now Sharadji has replied to it. It is correct that public were given and in Mumbai. Shri Bal Thackaray sald of this country has not given mandate to any political that if the BJP Government talk then there will be a party. Th~smandate is in favour of coalition clvil war in the country. It proves that you have no Governmsr~t.It IS also clear that this mandate is in faith in democracy. Therefore, we oppose to this favour of secular forces. You got a mandate of 23 motlon of conf~dence.The news has been appearing percent, United Front has got a mandate of 45 in many newspaper for the last few days that after percent and 28 percent mandate is in favour of the Confidence Motion is defeated by a large number Congress Party. Except the 23 percent, remaining of votes, there will be no stability in the country I mandate IS in favour of Secular torces and this IS the would like to say only that today, all secular Parties first occasion rn the history of India. Leave the point have united and they have absolute majority in the of Secular party...( Interrupt~ons) House. 1 think that there IS some difference between [English] the policies of several Parties and our Congress Party but there is a need to stability in the country. MR CHAIRMAN . No, no. Th~sis not the way. Some time there is pol~t~calcompulsion but at last You are a senior Member. You should know. some Parties havmg faith in unity and secularism in (Inlerruptions) the country are trylng to unite, therefore, Congress has decided to support the United Front from outside. [Translation] Untiil they follow the pohcy for advancement of the SHRl RAM VlLAS PASWAN : Mr. Chairman, Sir, poor people, Congress Party will contmue to give its this mandate is in favour of secular forces and support to such Government. regional parties. If you look into this election result, Mr Speaker, Sir I oppose the motlon of you will find that mandate is against Communal conf~denceof the BJP Government In thls House forces and this is the only reason that inspite of This House tulf~llsthe hopes and asplratlons of crores support from rich class, allurement and threatening of people of th~scountry Therefore. It IS necessary they could not buy a single independent to say before thls House that the country has not M.P. ..(Interruptions) fa~thIn th~smlnorlty Government Therefore, ~t IS, my moral and natlonal duty to oppose th~smotlon of [English] conf~dence MR. CHAIRMAN : Please resume your seats SHRl RAM VlLAS PASWAN (Hajipur) , Mr. (Interruptions) Speaker. Sir, I rise to oppose thls Confidence Motion. I was in favour of bringing No-Confidence Motion I MR. CHAIRMAN . You are a senior Member. You was listening to the Speech of Shri Vajpayee with will have an opportpnity to speak. apt attention. I, personally have full regard for (Interruptions) 4 1 Motion of Confidence In JYAISTHA 8, 1918 (Sake) the Council of Mlnisters 4 2

MR. CHAIRMAN : The hon. Minister is raising a Tripura, Punjab, Himachal Pradesh, Assam and point of order. North-East ...(Interruptions) I do not claim that Janta Dal has got mandate. I have said that we have got [Translatlonl the mandate collectively. Therefore, Mr. Chairman, THE MINISTER OF INFORMATION AND Sir, our colleagues were very much annoyed at that. BROADCASTING (SHRIMATI ) : Mr. The hon. Prim Minister, Shri Atal Bihari Vajpayee ji Speaker, Sir, I am on a point of order. Ram Vilas has just 194 hon. Members in all whereas. We have Paswanjl has used a word that 'not a single M.P. 321; i have with me ...(lnterruptions) Now these have could be bought'. He should say that not a single become purchased. Now it has become Parliamentary MP joined them. Whether it is a market for saleable and at that time Sushmaji was giving us sermons. people and not a single MP could be bought. This Now it is said that they have been purchased and it ' word should be expunged from the proceedings has become Parliamentary...( Interruptions) ...(lnterruptions) He should say' not a single MP SHRl RASA SINGH RAWAT (Ajmer) : In which loined them' or he should use some other correct language are you speaking? . word for it ...(Interruptions) [English] [English] MR CHAIRMAN : Ftarr~ 'd~~asji,you may please MR. CHAIRMAN : Please resume your seat address the Chair. Otherwise, you will be inviting trouble from them. [Translation] (Interruptions) SHRl RAM VlLAS PASWAN : Right. I accept. your. amendment, not a single MP joined them. Mr. [T~~~~/~~,~~] Chairman, Sir, I would like to say not even one percent.. .(Interruptions) SHRl RAM VlLAS PASWAN : Mr. Chairman, Sir, the hon. Prime Minister has said that he does not SHRlJAGDAME' PRASAD (GOnda) believe in horse trading but in manipulation. On the Janata Dal split and its Members were bought. Can basis of that with a strength of 194 this they reply to it?...(Interruptions) Government wants to win majority...( Interruptions)

[English] [English] MR. CHAIRMAN : Please cooperate with the MR. CHAIRMAN : If there is anything Chair. Kindly be seated. objectionable, the hon. Prime Ministar can deal with (Interruptions) it while giving the reply. MR. CHAIRMAN : Kindly be seated. (Interruptions) (Interruptions) MR. CHAIRMAN : Kindly be seated. Please resume your seat. MR. CHAIRMAN : Hon. Members, may I request all of you? A serious discussion is going on. Please (Interruptrons) cooperate with the Chair. MR. CHAIRMAN : No no, please be seated. (Interruptions) (Interruptions) 0 MR. CHAIRMAN : They are all new Members. Let MR. CHAIRMAN : Please be seated. them also understand. When you get the opportunity. you can put forth your points. (In terrup tions) (Interruptions) [Translation] MR. CHAIRMAN : I may have to name that SHRl ATAL BlHARl VAJPAYEE : Mr. Chairman, Member. Everytime he is getting up. I will name you Sir, it is better if my friend Ram Vilas Paswanji 11 You stand up agaln. Do not do like that. concludes without creatlng any controversy. (Interruptions) I have not said that I believe in manipulation ..,(Interruptions) and I refute this change Vransla tlon] ...(Interruptions) SHRl : Mr. Chairman, Slr, SHRl SHARAD YADAV (Madhepura) : Mr. 'his Party does not have even one percent mandate Chairman, Sir, when Atalji was speaking then 01 the minorkles. Just now Sharrd Pawarji has said Somnath Babu, myself, Mulyam Singhji and other 'hat they did not get the mandate at all in Tamil from our side had requested. Our members not to Nadu, Andhra Pradosh, Karala, Orlssa Wost Bengal, interrupt him, there were only a few interruptions. 4 3 Motion of Confidence in MAY 27, 1996 the Council of Ministers 4 4

When Sharad Pawarji and Vilasji were speaking. consulting his colleagues. I would like to know if I would like to urge upon Atalji through you that we they have held discussions with the Akali Dal, Samta should condemn such things e;.;!r if snmeone from Party, Shiv Sena and the Haryana Vikas Party? Why your side or from our side has said otherwise. A very did he go there and accept the invitation? If they serious discussion is going on here, which is being had said that they would prove thelr majority later watched by the entire nation. Therefore, my on, then it would have been understandable but submission to him is that he should ask his different opinion started coming in, someone said . colleagues to maintain decorum. We have done so that it is upto God, Sushmaji gave a different opinion Somnath Babu along with myself have done so and our colleague Mahajanji gave a different opinion ...(Interruptions) - they tried all the measures. The head of Shiv Sena said that if their Government falls then there will be SHRl ATAL BlHARl VAJPAYEE : Sharad Yadavji, I agree with you.. (Interruptions) a civil war in the country and it will be divided and the hon. Minister of Home Affairs said that if this SHRl SHARAD YADAV : Atalji has gone thrice to Government falls it will lead to disintegration of the pacify his people...(Interruptions) country. One Government will come another will SHRl ATAL BlHARl VAJPAYEE : If need be then 90 - ...( Interruptions) I will do so the fourth time also but, it should be *in [English] a Ilmit. I am urging upon my friends to keep restraint (lnterrupt~ons) SHRI MADHUKAR SIRPOTDAR (Mumbai North West).: Sir, I am on a point of information. MR. CHAIRMAN : I request all the leaders to ask there Members to be cautious since a very good [Translation] discussion is faJing place. Since, he is speaking about Shiv Sena SHRl RAM VlLAS PASWAN :When any allegation ...(Interruptions) IS made by the treasury benches against us it is our duty to give its' reply. Likewise, if we level any charge [English] against them, it is their duty to respond accordingly. -QR. CHAIRMAN : Are you on a point of order? There is no need at all of any sort of excitement in it The hon. Prime Minister has levelled charge on us (Interruptions) and has remarked that a weired assortment of SHRl MADHUKAR SIRPOTDAR : I am on a point betrogeneous elements If it is so, then we would of information. like to know of the Bhartiya Janta Party and its allies like Aka11 Dal, Samta party and Shiv Sena have the [Translation] same pol~c~es.whether they are not a motley group? Such things can not be said here, about which Does the hon Prime Mmister support the Anandpur he does not have full information (Interruptions) Sah~bresolutton Did not the Bhartiya Janta party Support the Operation Blue-Star? [E ng/is h]

Mr. Chairman. Sir. I have said that these days MR. CHAIRMAN : No 1 canrot allow any point of the politics of convenience is going on. If some party information grves it's support to the Bhartiya Janta Party then it becomes the 'gangotri' and ideal Darty and if it does [Translation] not support then it becomes the worst party. My subm~ss~onis that such things should not be said SHRl MADHUKAR SIRPOTDAR : He has said and at least th~sGovernment does not have the right [English] to speak about morality MR. CHAIRMAN : If there is anything, you can He has just now said that the hon President has reply to it when you speak. invited him but the then President had also invited Shri Y.B. Chavan who very humbly had told the [Translation] President that he would make his position clear after SHRl MADHUKAR SIRPOTDAR : When he has two days Only after his position clear after two days. said something it should be allowed to speak. Only after his denial, the others were invited to form the Government. Likewise when Atal Bihariji was [English] ~nvited,he dd not know that he would be invited to form the Government and we .also came to know MR, CHAIRMAN : If he yields, I do not mind. Mr. about it from the newspapers. When he was invited, Ram Vilas Paswan, are you ylelding? he should have told that he would decide after, SHRI RAM VlLAS PASWAN : No. 4 5 Motion of Confidence in JYAISTHA 6. 1918 (Saka) the Council 01 Minrsters 4 6

SHRl MADHUKAR SIRPOTDAR : Unless he Our Government was In power In 1990. Hon. knows fully, he should not make any allegation Prime Mmister has just sh~ftedhis statement from against somebody. religious fanaticism to castecism. Does his party not consist of backward people or people having faith in [Translation] Mandal? What was the reason behind mentioning Nothing wrong 6hould be said ... (Interruptions) the name of Ram? I had stated earlier that Ram- Ram Vilas Paswan - is sitting here. Is it in Shri Atal SHRl RAM VlLAS PASWAN : I have not mentioned 'Bihariji' or Shri Ji? Ram is anyone's name. already sitting here ...(Interruptions) [English] PROF. RASA SlNGH RAWAT : Ram is in our culture. The name of Lord Ram is being insulted SHRl MADHUKAR SIRPOTDAR : Sir, he is not here ...(Interruptions) supposed to make any allegation when the person concerned it not present in the House SHRI RAM VlLAS PASWAN : Mr. Chairman, Sir, .. .(Interruptions) There is no question of interruption in it, then why are they interrupting ...(Interruptions) I am not [Translation] yielding

SHRl RAM VlLAS PASWAN - Mr. Chairman Sir. [English] we want that this Government should fall at the earliest. We have selected only 4-5 speakers from MR. CHAIRMAN . If there is anything our party to speak so that the incertainty present in objectionable, I will remove it. the country come to an end I know that the ruling [Tra nsla lion] party will make all efforts to prolong this discussion but I am sure that at the time of voting on th~smotion SHRI RAM NAGINA MISHRA (Padrauna) . Mr th~sGovernment w~llfall certamly. Then there will be Chairman. Sir...(Interruptions)' no civil war In the country and this country is also [English] not going !o disintegrate The parties will continue to divide. Parties w~llkeep on splitting; we all will also MR. CHAIRMAN : Nothing will go on record keep on breaking, everythng will disintegrate but the democracy will go on as usual in the country I do 15.00 hrs. not believe that the country will be saved ~f the BJP [Translation] Government survives or ~t will dwntrg:ate if the BJP Government falls flat on the ground. SHRl RAM VlLAS PASWAN : Mr. Cha~rman.Sir, I was stating that our Government in 1990 was Th~scountry IS great It w~llnever d~sintegrateat working In the Interest of the poors the dal~t the any cost The people of the country are great Your backward and weaker sections of the soc~etyand slogan shoutmg w~llnot do anythmg You had majority had our Government not implemented Mandal Government In four states namely Uttar Pradesh Comm~ssionand not worked for backward classes, Hlmachal Pradesh and Rajasthan th~sRam Rath would not have been brougth on the You could have ruled for f~veyears In Uttar Pradesh road. but the way you have entangled and thrown the law Ram Rath was brought to counter the Mandal the rule of law to the w~ndmtr~cated the constltutlon and usurp the r~ghtsof the poor whlch resulted Into and the way you ha\, reduced the const~tutional fall of our Government I would also l~keto add that framework to shreds In the very f~rstyear the people both the tlmes ~t was the R S S wh~chwas of Uttar Pradesh d~scardedand deprlved you of the mstrumental In the tall of our Government There- majority, when elections were held ~mmed~atelyafter fore whether ~t was In 1977 or In 1990 our that The people of th~scountry are great The Government fell due to R S S Th~stlmr we are going secular~smhas marked ~tsvlctory over here The to form the Government of sec~llarforces and 11 w~ll country w~llnot at all pay any heed to your threats last t~llfrve year /Interrupt~onsl I can assure you that 11 my Government survlves ~t w~llfals~fy all the presumptions cher~shedby you Just now Hinduism was ment~oned.I want lo thank the people of th~scountry and i am proud of I admit, as stated by h~rn.ihat fall of the the fact that the people who are talk~ngof H~ndu Government is not a new th~ngbut I would like to Nat~ontod~y, they should not forget that every one know what made the tall of our Government in 1977 had contr~buteda lot In the freedom of th~scountry after emergency, the issues ol R S S and dual Khud~ramBose and Sardar Bhagat S~nghwere membership wero responsible tor ~t Aga~n.who hanged till death and Isfaqullah, a Musl~m.who hid engineered the fall of our Government in 1990 which was formed in l989?...( Interruphons) Not Recorded 4 7 Motion of Confidence in MAY 27, 1996 the Council of Ministers 4 8 said, "Sarfarosi ki tamanna ab hamare dil mein hai; backward people? Are Yadava, Kurmi, Kori, Nai, Teli, dekhna hai jor kitna bajuye katil mein hai." was also Tamoli, Luhar, Kumhar, Chaurasia, Barhai, Mallah, hanged till death. Nishad, Bheel, Paswan and Chamar not Hindu? Sir, the state has no religion of its own. The state What does Hindu mean? Whether a handful of is neither Hindu, nor Muslim nor Sikh. Water has people will rule and Muslims will only be abused? only one quality, one religion. Nobody would like to Will the people in power rule on the name of Hindus? put his finger in hot water but the cold water is Who is a Muslim? useful for all. In the same way state too has a religion It has repeatedly by been said that Muslims are and that is the religion of justice. But if you add the progeny of Babar who came.here. in 1526. When Hindu, islam or Khalistan to it then it will lose the he came here, lbrahim Lodhi was on the throne. very concept of justice. Before lbrahim Lodhi, Khilji dynasty was in power I know that Shri Atal Bihari Vajpayee has and prior to that Tughlak dynasty was ruling India. something else in his mind and expresses something Before Tughlak Dynasty, there was Slave dynasty else under pressure and he has demonstrated this and exactly before Slave dynasty, Mohammad Gori time and again. was the ruler of India. All these rulers were not He talks of Hindu nation. We can very well see Hindus and as per the annals of History, all of them that there are Hindu Chief Ministers in all the states, were Mughals. Historians tell us that only 1200 be it Prafull Kumar Mahanta, the Chief Minister of persons accompanied Babar to India, there number Assam. J.B. Patnaik. The Chief Minister of Orissa, has swollen upto 12 crore. There are around 14 or Jyoti Basu the Chief Minister of West Bengal, be it 16 crore Muslims in Pakistan and Bangladesh. If this the Chief Minister of Tripura, the Chief Minister of number is added to it, the number reaches upto 28 Bihar, Shri Laloo Prasad Yadav, the Chief Minister of or 30 crore Muslims the progeny of Babar? I shall Delhi Sahib Singh Verma, the Chief Minister of tell you who is a Muslim and why he enbrced Islam. Madhya Pradesh. Shri Digvijaya Singh, the Chief Here Barnaia Sahab is a Sikh but by caste he is jat. M~n~sterof H~machalPradesh, Shri Veer Bhadra' Tora Sahad and Badal Sahab both are also jat and Singh, the Chief Minister of Rajasthan, Shri Bhairon Buta Singhji is Satai Mazdoor by caste. Are these Singh Shekhawat. Shri Bansi Lai who has become persons not Hindu' Who are these Christians the Chief Minister of Haryana after Shri Bhajan Lal, or Adiwasi Christians and who are these Buddishts? the Chief Minister of Maharashtra- Shri Manohar 10 Lakhs people accepted Buddism with Baba Sahab josh^, or Chandra Babu Naidu in Andhra Pradesh, Ambedkar. All these were . Why some members Karunanidhi In Tamil Nadu, Naynarjl in Kerala or of our family became Muslim? When you stopped Deve Gowda ji in Karnataka. It <+ow that there is no them from entering the temple, they went to Masjid Muslim Chief Minister in any state Tell me the name and when you did not permit them to dine with you of any state where any Muslim has become Chief they joined the Dastarkhan or Langar. You are not Minister. going to eradicate the evils of the religion and simply ONE HON. MEMBER . Antuie ji had become resorting to other temporary devices. Ch~efMinister. Is Uma Bharti not aggrieved? I think, all of us are anguished Vinay Katiyar ji has been made head [English] of Bajrang D%l just to threaten. Sikandar Bakht ji SHRl SOMNATH CHATTERJEE (Bolpur) : Sir, that was made No.2 Minister but when time came to microphone should be shut down. award him portfolio, he was given the portfolio, he MR. CHAIRMAN . Yes. I have been seeing h~m: held in 1977. He could not even attend the office for Please don't repeat it. I have been observmg you. 10 days. Shri Suraj Bhan ji and Shri Kariya Mundaji is sitting here. Mr. Chairman, Sir, the people of the [Translation] country understand everything. SHRl RAM VlLAS PASWAN.: Mr. Chairman, Sir. Sir, when we talk of social justice, it doe not I was stating that there are Hindu Chief Minislurs in mean that to provide justice to everyone in the most of the states. President and Vice-president and society be it Dalit or Brahmin, India is like a garden Prime Minister of lnd~aare Hindus and Hindus are full of flowers of each and every veriety and species. occupying 99 percent of the Government jobs. Only one percent jobs are with the ~inoritypeople. I do [Transla tion] not want to drag army in this matter but why the There are Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs, Dalits and slogan of 'Hindu Nation is being raised again and also Christians. That gardener is best, in whose agam and even if it becomes a 'Hindu Nation,' what garden there are all types of flowers. Remember, the will a Hindu get more than this? When the Mandal gardener of such a garden is deshonest, in whose Commlss~onwas ~mplementedby us whether it was garden only the Lotus flower blooms and others, not meant for H~ndus?Was it not meant for the wither away..Such a garden will not last. .. - 4 9 MoMon of Confidence in JYAISTHA 6, 1918 (Sake) the Council of Ministers 5 0

Mr. Chairman, Sir, just now Hon'ble Prime day before yesterday for the Babri Masjid file. What Minister was speaklng and he directly made an is Babri Masjid? Did the Home Minister's name not allegation. We know that your speech is very figure in it? persuasive and you hit in different ways. You say THE MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (SHRI MURLl people misappropriate fodder. I deny this. It has MANOHAR JOSHI) : Mr. Chairman, Sir, it is totally happened in every Government to withdraw the funds wrong, absolutely false and baseless ...(Interruptions) in excess of the budget provisions. Excess withdradl of funds is no! a crime. What is to ensure is that SHRI RAM VlLAS PASWAN : Mr. Chairman, Sir, where fhe. mody is spent ...(Interruptions) we know because ...(Interruptions). Attempt is be~ng -2% made from the Government's side to blackmail all Mr. Chairman, Sir, I repeat myself (Interruptions) ... the Chief Ministers Why was the army not sent to MR. CHAIRMAN : If you look towards that side, Assam? Whereas it was so demanded by the Assam while speaking, they would stand up. Chief Minister Why the 15 battalions of BMP had to be sent there from Bihar? Why did not the SHRl RAM VlLAS PASWAN Mr. Chairman. Sir, . Government of India paid due attention on this? I I was saying that every Government makes a budget would like to submit that the matters of unity and estimate and in every department money is withdrawn integrity of the nation and corruptlon are there. To in excess of the provision. The moot point to see in whom are you blaming? You are not overlooking how the money is spent end whether it is bei~~g youself. You have not mentioned about corruptions spent properly or not. For this, 41 officers have been in the President's Address. You are issuing sermons suspended there. They are in jail. The Government to us. Where 1s you nat~onalPresident. Why his face took action. Initially judicial inquiry was demanded. is not appearmg here? And what about the Former Judicial commission was set up. Then CBI inquiry Chief Minister ot Delhiv In Madhya Pradesh everyone was demanded. The matter is sub judice. I have from top to bottom is involved in the hawala case. heard that the Chief Justice of the H~ghCourt is And, you talk to us on corruptlon looking into it. The truth will come before us. Who can make allegation against your Governments. This You want to clean the Gangotr~?But Gangotr~is Shiv Sena ...(Interruptions) clean because the place from where it originates IS full of herbs. But 11 ~tsplace of origin is polluted, Mr. Chairman, Sir, can we not level charges? then it can never be cleaned. Therefore. Valpayeeji. The Enron case took place During the election the atmosphere around you IS sullied. It IS so much campaign, I remember, Shiv Sena and Bharatiya dirty that, if you w~llpour a bucket of clean water, it Janata Party used to say that theorGovernment would would be sullied. 1 want to request you that you d~d do two things These two things are to throw Dawood not have the mandate earl~erto form the Government lbrahim and Enron into the Ocean Have you thrown and you have not the same still now. Does our Enron into the Ocean? Has Enron not been allpwed conscience act in the Parliamentary democracy? to act again? What charge can we level against ...(lnterrupt~ons) Tomorrow when we will form our you? ...(Interruptions). Just now I was witness~ngthat Government and,appeal to the members to vote you speak of giscipline. In today's edition of according to their conscience, then w~llyou not Issue Navbharat Times, it has appeared. Hon'ble Prime a wh~pto your Members? Will you not convlnce your Mmister, Sir, a member of your Counc~lof Minister, party Members? This never happens In Parl~amentary a member of you Party, Mr Atma Ram Patel, 75 democracy. Therefore, you should think over your years old was beaten up In front ot you and then short-com~ngs,where ever it is. There are people was paraded naked ...(Irterruptrons) but you could from weaker sections and minority classes and you not protect him. Then how can you defeud the nation. talk about secularism. But they look only Your office is locked up. The word expressed by the communalism. Navbharat Times, relating to and RSS. Respected Barnalaji is here. He IS a very good is unparliamentary word. Therefore. I do not want to friend. We want to work a lot together. His party IS express it. Because if I do so, they would start a federal Party. But their ideology is that the Centre shouting. should be strong and all the states should work under Mr. Chalrman, Sir, I want to say that to whom it as a peon ...(Interrupt~ons) are you going to teach about disc~plineand morality PROF. PREM SlNGH CHANDUMAJRA (Patlala) ...(Interruptions) It is true that rnelr oftice has been Have you asked the Congress ~t they are ready for looked. We have received th~sinformation. The federal system? ...(Interruptrons) Government comes and goes. Day before yesterday we learnt how this Government is functioning. This SHRl RAM VlLAS PASWAN Sir. through you I Government is like a photostat Government. Their want to urge that we d~dnot expect this from the only work is to get the photostat. This is our Hon'ble Government, at least not from Shr~Atal Bihari Home Minisler. Did he not ask the Home Mmister Vajpayee. When the Pres~dentinvited him being the 5 1 Motron of Conl~dencein MAY 27, 1996 the Council of Ministers 52

BJP as single largest party, then he should have Front and Congress Party, went to people for sa~dthat he did not have the nlajority, or he should mandate. One of these i.e. Congress Party had told have said !hat he would consult all his allies and the people forcefully that it will have the majority. then let him know the posit~on.@l!t you went and took National Front and Left-Front had also gone one the oath Thereafter you made immense efforts and step ahead and said that they would get the thumping tried every tricks to get the majority. But we want to majority and form the Government. Many of its leaders thank each and every member of our Party and,the had said publicly that they would get three hundred other political parties, who saved to d~gnityof the seats. Some leaders of the BJP had also said that Parliament by frushfrustrat~ngany attempt for horse they would get the majority. But perhaps Shri Sharad trading. There are no industrialist or big capitalists Pawar has just now said about the Prime Minister of the country who dtd not come forward to support. that he had said that "they will refrain from forming Share prices started increase. Why7 Do we not the Government if they get less than 225 seats." It Know? I do rtot know much about the economy but was an assessment that perhaps we will not achieve I do have some knowledge. Big capital~stss!arted that target and may get less seats but later on it blrndly to support the pol~ticalparty and such things came to the light from two parties of the country that happened There can be 'no friendsh~pbetween we are going to form 'r~eGovernment with the help horse and grass' Horse w~llalways eat the grass. of other parties. People opined that both of these You are celebrat~ngthe 'Janadesh Samman Divas'. parties are unable to form the Government I would like to request you to resign. Go from here ...(Interruptions) and pave the way for secular forces. Atalji, you need AN HON'RLE MEMBER : We will form unitedly. not worry We would run the secular Government smoothly for f~veyears. We will not disappoint you. SHRl GEORGE FERNANDES : We will reach there when you form the Government unitedly. Wlth these words I strongly oppose th~s Canf~derlceMotlnn We will unite you both SH91 GEORGF FERNANDES (Nalanda) Hon Please wall for that You should wall for some c',ha~rrr~anSI- 1 #ant to speak In support of the time, we w~llurilte both of you (Interruptions) V::lcn hi, ilyht refore Ihp House by the Pr~me [Engl~sh] tdcr~~sierS1,ri A13 Dinar1 Valpayee I would hke to reqdesi tht= HDU~E't *: i:?h you that a debate has to MR CHAIRMAN : Please do not interrupt. take place iri th~cHc .l,c I t~avetr, express my vlews and !hose wkwtirlt 19 oppose my vlews may say so [Transla tion] later on Rut I have not~cedthat from the very SHRl GEORGE FERNANDES : Mr. Chairman. Sir, beglnn~ngthere IS less of debate and more of whenever they ~nterrupt,we will retort them. uproarlous scenes are be~ngcreated In the House So I request you to tell the every Member of the [English] House that ib~sHouse IS meant for debate and MR. CHAIRMAN . Mr. Fernandes, only six accord~nglydehat~ must go on Prime M~n~sterhas mlnutes are allotted to your Party, so kindly address truely sa~dthat ~t need one must resort to the Cha~rand do not look at them Interrupttons bu* ~nterrupt~onsdo not mean creatlng uproarlous scenes hence th~smust not be resorted [Translation] to SHRl GEORGE FERNANDES All right We will F~rs!and foremost I would l~keto say that no ask you for some more tlme Ultimately you are golng poltt~calpar!y IS respons~blefor !he present sltuatlon to dec~dethat who w~llform the Government In the wh~chIS before the House or truely before the country and what should be the programmes of the country Ne~therthe pol~t~calparty ~nv~tedby the Government Who w~llrun the Government for the Pres~denthas created thls present s~tuat~onnor those next flve years, wh~ledomg so please do us a favour part~eswho have dec~dednot to allow them to form for not rem~ndmgme about the tlme the Government at any cost Thls sltuatlon tla; been The P~es~denthad ~nv~tedOur Party had created by the voters of th~scountry and d~dnot glve requested the Pres~dentto ~nvlteShr~ Atal 01har1 majorlty tc any party In this House Vajpayee to form the Government My fr~endShr~ I oo not want lo repeat to rem~nd~t here but Ram V~lasPaswan has sa~dhere that I told somethmg durlng the course of debate I found 11 necessary that about the Samata Party In vlew of the present we are 1rirgettlng to the voters who are respons~ble sltuatlon the country we went to the Pres~dentw~th for the creatlon of th~ss~tuat~onand now we are here a proposal duly passed that Shr~Atal B~har~Vajpayee to declde !he fate of the country shoul! be lnvlted to form the Government Ma~nly three pol~ttcalpartles, namely : Bhartiya SHRl RAM VlLAS PASWAN : We had said that Janta party. Natlonal Front- Left Front now United the policy of both the partles are different. Motion of Confidence in JYAISTHA 6, 1918 (Sakcr) fhe Councrl of M~nrsters 5 4

SHRl GEORGE FERNANDES : It's not a matter of that on what basis they will be repeated that policy but you have said somethlng else. Perhaps something wrong has been done, how they went, it you have forgotten in the flow of your speech. You is not a'way of discussion If you do not like the have said that we were not asked for. We should established traditions of parlramentary system of this have asked for first. country, then amend the constitution, whlch is the only way out. To waste time on such a debate IS not [Transla tion] in the fitness of thlngs. We were asked to call them, because we have SHRl MOHAMMAD ALI ASHRAF FATMI seen the condition in the country and on that basis (Darbhanga) . You were given only seven Minutes we have expressed this point ...(Interrupt~ons) I am time and now why are you wastmg the time of the happy that the President has taken the step in a right way and we also felicitate the President and House? thank him that ,he has acted according to the [English] democratic traditions which have been established in our country during the last several years. This MR. CHAIRMAN I will manage that. It 1s not situation has come up only after 1977. From 1952 to your job. 1977, a single party had been getting majority in India for the last 25 years. In 1977, this situation [Transla tion] changed and after 1977, this situatlon again came SHRl GEORGE FERNANDES It IS belng sald up in 1989. Again in 1991 the position was same but that the Government will not be allowed to be at that time the whole opposition Parties were dlvided constltuted or to work at any cost We have lot of in such a way that they were unable to stop the experlence In this regard Sh-I N111sh Kumar 11 IS constitution of a minorlty Government That also slttlng here It was cla~medabout both of us In Government was not constltuted on the basis of the Blhar that George Fernandes and Nltlsh Kumar would majority of Congress party Actually it was constituted not be allowed to wln Lok Sabtia Seats from Blhar due to the grace of the opposition Parties. But this at any cost So we have experlence about thls The situation has been prevailing In the country since thlnklng of these leaders and that of Voters were 1977, that how a party failed to get major~tyor a party having majorlty splitted and In th~ssituatlon different The Voters of B~harare now much rr,atureC It has been proved by the fact that I ana Nltlsh Kumar the Presldent had to take a declslon A trad~tlonhas been establ~shedIn our country and the Presldent are In a posltlon to be present here (Irlterruptions1 has acted according to that tradlt~on I was surprised to hear that our hon Member Shrl Sharad Pawar has sald here that somethlng wrong has been done MR. CHAIRMAN You are a new Member You should behave well You please he seated SHRl SHARAD PAWAR . I d~dnot utter somethlng wrong. I had sald that whosower has been lnvlted. Mr Rajesh Ranjan you klndly be seated is the rlght step. (Interrupfinns! [Transla tton] SHRl GEORGE FERNANDES To say slurred. will be a personal allegation Shrl Ram Vilas Paswan SHRl RAJESH RANJAN (Purnlal Mr Chalrman has sald again and agaln that ''how ws went and please ilsten to me Hon Member 1s utterlng why?" The Presldent had ln?~ledus and as such we objectionable words against a went In such a way 11 was an attack on the declslon Is 11 a matter of d~gnltyfor a Member ol Parllament7 of the Presldent They have sad that the Government (;nterrup hons) have not such courage It IS correct Rut the attack W directly on the decls~onof the President It could [English) not be negated MR CHAIRMAN Any such words uttered would The second polnt I want to say 1s that 11 lnvltlng be expunged of Shrr Atal Blharl Vajpayee was wrong and he should not go there and 11 he should not have constltuted the Government, then who should be lnvlted, thls [Transla t~on) someth~ngwrong has been done 1s not enough When you were not In the racc thep who should SHRl RAJESH RANJAN They are call~nga have gone? Till today, 13 partles could not prepared persons 'goonda' .{'lnferru~t~ons) a common programme You yourself are saylng that [English] your programme has not been clalkea out MR CHAIRMAN You klrldly Se seated The Present Leader of Opposition, former Prlme Mlnlster and Congress President 1s unable to declde 5 5 Motlon of Confidence in MAY 27. 1996 the Council of Ministers 5 6

[Transla t~on] [Transla tion] SHRl ANAND MOHAN (Shivhar) : Who is Goonda SHRl GEORGE FERNANDES : Persons who in Bihar? ...(Interruptions) arrogantly say that they will not allow the Government to continue, would not be allowed to do so at any [English] cost. It would amount to disrespect to the voters. MR. CHAIRMAN : Mr. Anand Mohan, please Now a new political philosophy is coming up on the resume yolfseat. basis of 20,30, or 25 percent. It means that if a party succeeds in getting one M.P. elected in getting from [Trans la tionJ each state then leader of that party in the House will become Prime Min~ster,but if one hundred Members SHRl GEORGE FERNANDES : Mr. Chairman Sir, of another party are elected from four States, they I was saylng that ...(Interruptions) will have to sit in opposition. They are talking of SHRI SHARAD YADAV (Madhepura) : Mr. evolving new principles also. I was surprised to know Chairman, please take care of the time fixed for it. from such a person who has been Defence Minister I want to submit that it would be better if the time is of the country and Chief Minister of a big State spent on the Item fixed for. several times. But they should realise that it amounts to disrespect to the voters. Today, the total strength [Tra ns!a tion] of BJP and its allies comes to 190. They say that the THE MINISTER OF DEFENCE AND THE hon. President has committed a mistake by inviting MINISTER OF PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (SHRI BJP on this basis to form the Government. If they ) : Your statement has created a want that BJP should not be allowed to form the doubt. I have already requested the Chief whip that Government at any cost, then in case, BJP musters any time taken by George Fernandes may be majority tomorrow or had BJP mustered absolute deducted from my party's account. majority, then what would have been the form of democracy in this country? This quest~onarises - [English] because I am anticipating such threat from the manner in which debate is going on ...(Interruptions) MR. CHAIRMAN . Sarnta Party is allotted six minutes. The chief whip of BJP has already informed SHRl RAJESH RANJAN :These imaginery things. me that any time taken by Shri George Fernandes would be deducted from h~sacount. They have got [English] one hour and t~ttyminutes, apart from the time taken SHRl NIRMAL KANTl CHATTERJEE (Dumdum) : by the PM. It will be like the rise of Hitler. Hitler also came that way. I need not remind you.

[Transla tion] [Translation] + SHRl GEORGE FERNANDES . I request that tune should not be wasted In this manner by creating SHRI GEORGE FERNANDES : If they want to interrupt~ons, (Interruptions) d~scussHitler, we are ready for that but today we will not waste our tlme for that. We are ready for that [English] d~scussionand would like to have discussion MR. CHAIRMAN : You will continue. particularly with you on this matter. I am feeling a foul smell in this debate and line of thinking as was SHRl GEORGE FERNANDES : I will continue. felt 10-5-7 years back when the Government of only one party used to rule the country and that is use of [Transla t~on] Article 356. Members of DMK party and Telugu Desam But my subm~ssionIS that tlme wasted due to are sitting here who know how many times Article such interruptions should not be included in the time 356 has been used and for what purposes and how allotted to our party.. (Interruptions) it affected our democracy. We have such experiences. MR. CHAIRMAN : I have no such mechan~smto I doubt that those people who talk today in this measure the time of interruptions. I request that manner, can move towards that direction as and when interruptions may be min~m~sed. they get a chance. This House will decide the fate of this Motion We have been informed that the United SHRl GEORGE FERNANDES , We are speaking Front comprising of 13 Parties, with our friend Shri on your behalf. Whenever there is interruption, we Deve Gowda as 11s leader, will formulate a joint see as to who interrupts ..(lnterruptrons) programme containing all the common points included in their manifestoes. I would like to know [English] as to what common points or views are there in their MK. CHAIRMAN : Please carry on. manifestoes. 57 Motion of Contidence in JYAISTHA 6, 1918 (Sake) the ~cuncrlof M~nrsters 5 8

SHRl (Midnapore) : It will be insecurity overtook the mrnorities who do decided later on ...(Interruptions) not look upon this Government as a SHRl GEORGE FERNANDES : Why later on? I protector of thier life and property. have manifestoes of Janta Dal, C.P.I. CPI (M) and Corruption has reached new qualitative Telugu Desam with me. has dim'ension under the Rao Government, released its manifesto in Telugu Translated version with every passing day exposing a new of manifesto of Telugu Desam Party in English has scam, each bigger and more scandalous been gone through. After having gone through all than the one earlier. Securrty scam. sugar these manifestoes. I think, there are two main scam, disnvestment scam, Bailadila deal, common points in these manifestoes. First is - to telecom scam, railway gauge scam. Purulia curb the corruption. On this Janata Dal says - arms drop scandal, the Defence scam and now the havala racket, have polluted our [English] democratic system and life Even the "The Congress, fossilised by the famaily country's securrty has been at stake in rule and po,fligacy of power, has not had some of these scams" ever dynamio leadership or a sense of It further says: direction to retrieve its lost ground. In fact, "The country is no longer safe In Congress its endless equivocation on such hands Its chances of gaining a majority incandescent issues as social justice and on its own are non-ex~stent.The Congress secular order compounded by its elitist IS clearly unable and unfit to rule the craze tor economic liberalisation has only country any longer" led to further erosion of its base. Since 1989,. . jlnterrupt~ons) [Transla tron] Sir, you must protect me I cannot possibly speak But it does not include one thing and that is- in this kind of a situation You must protect me. MR. CHAIRMAN : Please carry on. SHRl GEORRGE FERNANDES ''But now it 15 fil to support the Natlonal 'Front It IS not 111to rule any more but ~t is "The Congress is now hrstorrcally heading certa~nly frt to support them." towards final disintegration The splits and . . . (lnterrupt~ons) revolts, which have recently afflicted in cont~nualrnstalmenls are unmistakable I want to make a d~stlnct~onjust now to help you indications of thrs process. Even while the out Here IS the CPi (M) men~festo It says: congress has kept contract~on rap~dlyIn "These flve years have seen totally terms of polltical and social gound, 11s unprecedented levels of ~nstitut~onal~sed governance during the last five years has corruption The hallmark of the Narasimha been pockmarked by numerous scams Rao regime has been the exponential such as the securitres scandal, fraudulent growth of both the number of scams and drsinvestment of the PSUs' shares, sugar the amount looted through them No area import muddle, deals in rarlways, power, was left untouched no stone unturned to oil, mlnes and telecom sectors." loot publ~cassets by the crrminal rulrng- The manner In whlch the havala racket party-polrtrc~an-businessman-bureaucrat was suppressed and srdetracked by the nexus The Congress party IS now a polltlcal party w~thno Internal democracy Government for over tour years is a scandal and 1s plagued by lnternac~nequarrels It in itself. It IS now known that the stable has turned rtself Into an organisatlon Government which the Congress prouduly whose leadershly is abandon~ng all claims to have given to the country, was commitment to the natronal cause' literally purchased, as IS evident from the (Interrupt~ons) bulging bank accounts of some M Ps" I am not yieldmg. Srr (Interruptions) [Translation] [Translatron] Mr. Chairman, Sir. 11 is ths menitesto of the Communist Party. It has been written in ~t- SHRl BHAGWAN SHANKAR RAWAT Have you left the Congress Party forever (lnterruptrons) or [English] you have jo~nedNatronal Front? (/nterrup:rons) "Under the Rao regime, heavy blows were SHRl GEORGE FERNANDES Mr Charrman, Srr, struck at the secular foundations of our this IS the last manifesto After thls I will read out Republic. A sense of alienation and some of the documents 5 9 Mot~onoi Confidence ~n MAY 27, 1996 the Council of Ministers 6 0

[Englis hj MR. CHAIRMAN : Speak about the confidence motion also. "The Congress Party which was in power, has not only tailed to Illcrease the standard SHRl GEORGE FERNANDES : I would like to of l~vrngof the common man but also has know whether Shri Narasimha Raoji has read It. This failed to provide the basic needs of the charge sheet against Shri P.V. Narasimha Raoji has masses. Corruption has become a way of been published in the New-Age of C.P.I. on 23rd, life for the Congress leaders. People have 22nd, 21st and 26th of April. It is hardly one month lost thelr faith In the Congress. Unending old. It appeared after the election campaign had manipulations have become a habit of the started. ruling party. The Congress has destroyed the country's economy by following improper policies. Communal tensions. It says that it is a charge-sheet against regional Insurgencies and the atrocities Narasimha Rao Government, Narasimha Rao must against the lowest of the lower rung of the go. Not only Narasimha Rao Government IS a corrupt people, namely. the Scheduled Castes and one, but its policies have been anti-people in all Scheduled Tribes have been incited by spheres. the Government and are being used for their benefit Th~sthe state of our country [Trans la tion] today.".. (/nferruprions,l 'SHRI GEORGE FERNANDES : It contains a SHE! INDRAJlT GUPTA .What is your manifesto? number of allegations. Which I would not lie to read SHGl GEORGE FERNANDES : Mv manifesto you out ...(Interruptions) are most welcome ?o read and study Ilnterruptrons) SHRI UMMAREDDY VENKATESWARLU (Bapatla) Sir at the same trme Telugu Desam categor~cally Narasrmha Rao - epitome of corruption sa~dthat coalrt~on Government IS the only solut~on . (lnterrupfrans) (~~tcirruFlton.~~You car look at the man~festo We SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE (Bolpur) : What have catecjortctill~ sa~d!hat tt 1s the coal~t~o? d~dyou say? Did Mr. Vajpayee go to him? Govern~entwhrch IS th~~nly solutlon You cannot go tt~rn~~ghthe sentrnces nh~chare conven~entto [Translation] you Take out ttle B.lF nian~trsto (lnterruprions) SHRl GEORGE FERNANDES : They go to meet SHRl GEORGE FFHNANOES Why should I read the former Prme Min~ster.Did not he go to meet what yc:~want me to reab') I an1 just now concerned Atalji wlth vou (!?ferruptrons! SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE I had gone to SHRI IYDHAJIT GUFTA Sir we would l~keto offer h~msweets know what thf Samata Party wrote about the BJP In SHRl GEORGE FERNANDES . I was felling that 11s rnan~festo K~ndlyask him to read ~t out he was In trouble He th~nksthat I was golng to read MR CHAIRMAN I cannot compel h~mto state it to make him laugh. I am reading i out just to make what he has sad about the BJP it clear, how they are clalming to form the Ilnterruptrons) Government ..(Interruptions) For what purpose all these thtngs were sa~d It was to inform the [Translat~on] countrymen that they were against him. SHRl GEORGE FERNANDES Mr Chalrman Sir SHRI BASUDEB ACHARIA : Please speak on such a senlor hon Member IS tell~ngme what to the motirn. rea! out Mow can 11 be poss~blethat I ask h~mwhat SHRl GEORGE FERNANDES . This is the motion to speak' Whatever I want to say I am saylng . .(lnterruptrons) Thls is the motion as to why this (Interrupt~ons1 Government should continue. This is the mo!ion that the Government IS not to be handed over to our [English] people Mr Chairman, Sir, now comes the Issue of SHRl NIRMAL KANTI CHATTERJEE (Dumdum) secular~sm.A word Engl~shhas been misused in our He IS speakmg on a No-conf~denceMotron agamst country I fail to understand why it is so I would like the Oppos~t~onLet hm contlnue to make it clear who is secular and who is communal and what is ~tscriteria I am not advocating the [Tra nsla tron] Bhartiya Janta Party and any other organisation also SHRl GEROGE FERNANDES Mr Chalrman Sir . .(lnterruptrons) Who issues the certificates and who I am not saylng so w~tha view to create any problem can be issued the certificates. This I; the document for these people of your party. please read it also .. .. , ...... c n 6 1 Motion of Confidence in JYAISTHA 6. '^'^IY 10 laenuJ'--I--' rne LOU~CII or ~inisrwrs DL

SHRl DEVENDRA PRASAD YADAV : What S~nce1947 two non-Congress Governments difference your comments make? were set up t~lldate In our country Once Morarl~ SHRl GEORGE FERNANDES : What is the Bha~sCabmet was formed and at that tlme there was Janta Party All the partles un~ledafter meaning of secularism? It is the document of C.P 1.M emergency and later on In 1989 the other It has the meaning of secularism. It says : Government was formed whose Prlme M~n~sterwas [English] Shr~V P Smgh In the f~rstGovernment Jasangh was present In the form of Janta Party In the second "While the BJP was trying to shed ~tsJan Government the Bhartlya Janta Party and the Left Sangh past, the Congress-l under lnd~ra partles gave support, from outslde Leav~ngaslde Gandhi has started floating with the Hmdu these two Governments, 11 we deduct 4 years out of vote which first became evident in Jammu the last 50 years then there had been the Conqress elections in 1983. She was also Government In the Centre for 46 years They can not accommodating the Ekatmakta Yagna deny this fact If there had been the~rGovernment launched by Vishwa Hindu Par~shad,the for 46 years out of 50 years then why the people organisation's first attempt at mass belong~ngto the mlnorlt~esfeel Insecure In our mobilization to promote the . The country? Who IS respons~blefor 117 If there 15 some tentalive moves mads by lndlra Gandh~ fear among the rnlnor~t~esatter Shri Atal Blharl became the central motives cf Rajiv Vajpayee has become the Prime M~n~sterand 11 the Gandhi's election campaign. When he won questlor, IS ra~sedas to what w~llbe the11future then an unprecedented mandate by raising the I would l~keto know whose Government had been spectre of natlonal disintegration at the there for 46 years out of 50 years7 hands of minority secesslonlsm, the focus Mr Cha~rman Slr I represen; Nslanda was on Sikh extrem~sm!n Punjab and the constltuency There is a ?ow:. Blhar Sbar,f r .- assass~nationof his mother by her Slkh constltuency Tt e Musl~rrls!IV~ tb,ere ha:^ bodyguards the kill~ngot thousands of around 50 thousands votes In that ronstltuency The S~khsIn Delh~and other North lnd~anclt~es half cf the weavers and the 61d workers have been In November that year from the grotesque starv~ngfor the last 3-4 years There IS nobodv tc background to the Congress-1's elect~on' enqure about them There 1s neither any arrangement campaign and father. In the recent years of employment for them For there IS an) arrangevr-' the Nehruvian ideals have been jett~soned of sell~ngthe~r producl Al !hose people have vcited by the Congress completely The danger for me They d~driot .ask me fnr nh~cr.1 am t;etng of this has Increased. FOFInstance at every Interrupted here The Mus\irrts of my Cons:\tuency stage of the Ram Janam Bhoom~agitation. ra~sedthe Issue of llvellhood The Rid* warkers and the Government of lnd~acomprom~sed and the craftsmen asked me tiow we w~llbe able to helped ~t along." prov~dethem tmploymeV Who can deny lo3a\ that the Musl~msof our couotry drd not get emoloyment "It was behind the opening of the locks. ~t They have not been qlverl employment In allowed Shilanyas, It allowed the periodlc Government and prwate sectors It has beer1 gmng 'Kar Seva', it stood aside to allow the on since Independence All ot us and th~sHouse demolition and finally allowed the know In what condltlon the Musltms ot thie ~ountry rebuilding of a make shift temple at the are llvlng Who 1s responsible for tt'; Who thought site, thus'legitimising the entire movement. about prov~dmgemployment them In 46 years They including the demolition. ~arringthe were pushed towaros handtcratts and on accoun! of farcical arrests of a handful of leaders and . the new economlc pollcy thls hand~craftIS also be~ng an equally farcical ban on the VHP, the abol~shed Then they gwe the slogan o! secular~srn Government falled to take any action to win votes and to run the pol~t~csof !nls countryT against those who demolished the mosque Mr Cha~rman Sir I oppose ~t I have been oppaslng or those who went on a kiiling spree." . ~t and w~llcontlnue to do so? Mr Chalrman Str I would l~keto subm~ltwc or [Trans la tion] three more polnts F~rstof all there.6 the Issue bf I am readlng out 1his.statement as there IS one Hawala whlch has been discussed much In the sided hue and ,cry Charges are levelled against newspapers All the par~tesh'pve mentraned t In Congress by these people. That they are communal. the~rman~festoes When hov. and what has haopened They have stated in their manifesto that the Congress . In Hawala ~tIS a separate thmg but tCIe facts become is communal. They have given up secularism and select~veThe facts are to be viewed selectwely Shrt every document speaks about it. What sort bf Advany IS trapped In Hawala It became a b~gIssue discussion, they want to hold un secularism but many other people and' many other thlngs 6 3 Motion of Confidence in MAY 27, 1996 the Council of Ministors 64 became part of the document. Who can deny it that SHRi GEORGE FERNANDES : Sir, I am not those who took much money'in Hawala, are from attributing any motives to anybody. Janata Dal... (Interruptions) It is your publication and not mine. The then Minister of Janta Dal, Shri Arun [Translation] Nehru Rs. 35 lakh, Moh. Arif Khan 7 crores 49 iakhs Mr. Chairman, Sir, I did not state that I considered 46 thousands, the Chief Minister of Janta Dal Shri them culprit. I only stated that when one speaks, he Chiman Bhai Patel Rs. 2 lakh and the president of utters everybody's name but one name has not been Janata Dal Shri S.R. Bomai ...(Interruptions) spoken out. That is what I am saying. SHRl B.K. GADHAVI (Banaskantha) : Sir, I am on point order. How can he name the people who are 16.00 hrr. not Members of the House? ...(Interruptions) [Englishl MR. CHAIRMAN : What is it you are quoting? MR. CHAIRMAN, : No, It seems, he is (Interruptions) , authenticating it. He can quote from that. The name MR. CHAIRMAN : Let me find out, what is It? of anybody who is not here should not been referred to as he cannot defend himself. [Transla tion] [Translation] SHRi MOHAMMAD ALI ASHARAF FATMI : Mr. Chairman, Sir, I am on a point of order ... SHRl ATAL BlHARl VAJPAYEE : Please do not give such ruling. The names of those who are not [English] present in the House cannot be referred to here. MR. CHAIRMAN : Mr. Fatmi, he has raised a This ruling will have far reaching effect on the whole point of order. You please be seated. Let me deal proceedings. with it. Whether he is from your party or not, I have AN HON. .MEMBER : Rule is rule. to deal with it. What is it you are referring to? . SHRl ATAL BlHARi VAJPAYEE : it is not a rule. SHRl GE~RGEFERNANDES : Sir, I am reading- 'Havala case punish all the guilty', a CPi (M) [E nglis h] pubJication. This is a printed document MR. CHAIRMAN : As per our established rules ...(Interruptions) here, we will deal with whatever is objectionable. [Tra nsla tion] (Interruptions) SHRl MUK-HTAR ANlS : You were also a Minister SHRl ANlL BASU (Arambagh) : Any matter which In that Government. How did you join the council of is hanging in the court should not be referred to in such Ministers on the basis of morality? the House. SHRl GEORGE FERNANDES : You should speak only after knowing the fact. Nalther you nor any of [Transla tion] you has knowledge of the history. SHRi ATAL BiHARl VAJPAYEE : Objectionable matter is something different but many persons who [English] are not present here are there in the public life. They MR. CHAIRMAN : Are you prepa;ed to affect our policies and participate in making the authenticate it? policies of the country. What is objectionable in mentioning their names? I have not stopped. SHRl GEORGE FERNANDES : Yes, Sir, I will authenticate It. SHRl GEORGE FERNANDES : I am neither attributing any motives to anybody nor blaming SHRl PRlYA RANJAN DASMUNSI : Mr. Chairman, Sir, George Fernandesji is a very responsible Member anyone to be Criminal.. .(Interruptions) with total knowledge of the rules, business and [Englls h] procedure of the House. i am not in favour or against any of the names which he is mentioning from a I am not making any allegation aiainst anybody literature or a leaflet I am only reminding you the ...(Interruptions) procedure. Some Members are already present in the House who are supposed to be involved in the [Tra nsla tion] havala case. But the matter is in the court for trial. Mr. Chairman, Sir, Let me conclude my speech. We have to find an answer whether the names of i do not intend to speak more ...(Interruptions) persons - who cannot defend themselves - could be repeatedly uttered here They Can *fend themselves [English] in the court of I- en!), and not in Parliament. is It proper on the palt .of George Fernandesji, who is e MR. CHAIRMAN : If it is pending before the court, seasoned Parliamentartan to attribute mot&es on normally the convention is that any name which is their names? pending before the court is not referred to. 6 5 Motlon of Confidence in JYAISTHA 6. 1918 (Seka) the Council of Minrsters 6 6

[Translation] shall be no reference to it, is not appreciable. I submit this with due respect. He cannot say it is sub judice SHRl SATYA PAL JAlN (Chandigarh) : Paswanji has mentioned the names of Shri Sahib Singh Verma SHRlMATl SUSHMA SWARAJ : It is not in the and Khuranaji. Their names should also not go on court of law. record ...(Interruptions) Paswanji has also quoted the SHRl JASWANT SlNGH : The second thing that case of Advaniji which is subjudice ...(Interruptions) he was saying was that simply because it is a legal case, therefore, no reference shall be made to it Sir, [English] please reflect on it because what you pronounce DR. MURLl MANOHAR JOSH1 : Quoting from an from the Chair will have very deep ramifications. authenticated document is permitted in the rules. Please refer to page 473 of Kaul and Shakdher MR. CHAIRMAN : I have already given a ruling . . . (Interrupt~ons) on that. Whatever is authenticated is permitted. KUMARI MAMATA BANERJEE : Sir, I am on a Whatever is pending in the court is not referred to point of order regarding this. here. 16.06 hrs. [Translation] (Mr Speaker - in the Chair) SHRl GEORGE FERNANDES : Mr. Chairman, Sir, MR. SPEAKER What is your po~ntof order? Ram Vilas ji mentioned a case in the House which : was perhaps mentioned by hon. Prime Minister in KUMARI MAMATA BANERJEE : I am referring to his speech. He said that whatever happened in Bihar Rule 353 ...(Interruptions) I am not wasting the time. was proper and there was nothing to wonder about Rule 353 clearly states that Members are not liable that. I have a judgement of the High Court in my to any proceedings in any court in respect of anything hand and I would like to quote some points from it said by them in the House; allegation should not be ...( Interruptions) made by them against a fellow Member. Minister or SHRl SHARAD YADAV : I am on point of order any ind~vidualor a public body unless the allegation ....(Interruptions) is supported and certified by strong evidence and adequate proof to substantiate that in the event of a [English] Member ...(Interrupt~ons) I am making a point or order to the Speaker and not to you. If a matter is referred MR. CHAIRMAN : He is on a point of order. to the court and the Member is not present here to Please hear him. defend himself, that matter cannot be raised here (Interrupt~ons) without strong document, that means, the strong MR. CHAIRMAN : Let me see. You please leave evidence. it to my judgement, not your judgement. [Transla tion] (Interruptions) SHRlMATl SUSHMA SWARAJ . Sir, the rule 353 MR. CHAIRMAN : Shri Sharad Yadavji, whatever which has been quoted by Kumari Mamta Banerjee IS sub jud~ceand is pending before the court will not is meant for Members. It is for the Members of the form part of the proceedings. House. She has quoted irrelavant rule. SHRl JASWANT SlNGH : You have referred to the question of sub pdice. In Kaul and Shakdher, [English] the rules are very clear about the matter of sub Rule 353 is about allegation made against any judice. In, criminal cases, a matter Is not sub judice person, any Member of the House...( Interruptions) as far as Parliament is concerned until the charges are framed. SHRl GEORGE FERNANDES : I am not making any allegation against anybody who is either in the In clvil cases, the matter is not sub judice untll House or outside. I do not know what these points the issues are framed. In this matter, in which my or orders are all about ...(Interruptions) friend Shrl George Fernandes e~dwhat Shri Sharad ii have said, the question that simply because it is SHRlMATl SUSHMA SWARAJ : He is quoting from in a court of law, the Parliament be debarred from the judgement. She is quoting an irrelevant rule. discussing it on the ground that it is sub judice, with SHRl GEORGE FERNANDES : I am only reading respect, Sir, I submit that it is not tenable. Kaul and a judgemnet of the High Court. Shakdher is very clear on this. Our rules are very clear on this. The matter is not sub judice. Criminal SHRlMATl SUSHMA SWARAJ : It is a public matter Is not sub judice unless charges are framed. document. Kindly look at tho rule. Civil matters are not sub judlce until the Issues are MR. SPEAKER : Madam, I think you have made framed. Therefore, in this blanket manner, for you to your point and Shri George Fernandes has made his say that slmply because It is In a court of law, there point. 6 7 Motion of Confidence in ' MAY 27, 1996 ' the Council of Ministers

SHRl E. AHAMED (Manjeri) : Sir, I would draw [Translation] your attention to rule 352 which says : Mr. speaker, As Shri Ram Vllas jl has raised thls. A Member while speaking shall not- issue here, I would like to read out some lines of this (i) refer tb any matter ot fact ,on which a judgement. I would like to read out some lines of the judicial decision is pending." judgement given by Justlces S.N. Shah and Justice S'K. Mukhopadhyaya on 11th March, 1996 and then What the hon. Minister Shri has I will conclude my speech. The judgement which has mentioned here, I do not think it is applicable here been written by Justice Shah and which has the because it is clearly stated that any matter pending concurence of .Justice Mukhopadhyaya reads as a judicial decision shall not be referred to here. follows : SHRlMATl SUSHMA SWARAJ . This matter is not pending.in a court of law. This is not in a court of [English] law "What I have not been able to understand is SHRI E. AHAMED : I do not have the book here. how excess expendituresldrawals could be Kaul and Shakdher has already mentioned it. If any possible without the tacit support of high-ups Member refers to something pending in the court of at the SecretariatlGovernment level. It is law, then he is going into the merits of the case. He . usual to find the Treasury raising objections IS not only referring to the case but he is going into in passing bills - whether it is salary bill of the merits of the case. the staff, fee bill of lawyers or contractor's SHRl GEORGE FERNANDES : I am not making bill. How then without the financial sanction any allegation against any member, against any and availability of funds could money be outsider or any matter pending before a court of law. drawn, to the tune of crores of rupees every I am only reading from a judgement of the High year? Who permitted this excess Court. It is something that has been decided by the expenditure? The Constitution envisages a High Court. definite procedure to cover the excess. The Constitution envisages a definite procedure MR. SPEAKER : Ithink the matter is very clear. to cover the excess. The procedure has The hon. Member is not quoting from a judgement undisputedly not been followed:' where the case is pending before the court. It is an established, a published document which the hon. SHRl SRIKANTA JENA : Are we discussing? Member is quoting. I think the Member had the right ..(lnterruptions )'...This is highly objectionable to quote. . . . (Interrupt~ons) SHRI KINJARAPU YERRANNAIDU (Srikakulam): MR. SPEAKER : Mr. Geoge, please confine to What is the necessity of quoting it now? the Motion. It is not a No-Confidence Motion against the previous Government. It is a Confidence Motion [Trans la tio n] of the present Government. Kindly stick to that. SHRl GEORGE FERNANDES : Mr. Speaker. Sir, SHRlMATl SUSHMA SWARAJ : Shri Ram Vilas ~t was not my intention to raise this issue here but Paswan ra~sedthis po~nt...( Interruptions) the Prime Min~ster himself has raised it MR SPEAKER : Mr. George Fernandes, Rlease ...(Interruptions) conclude.,

[Translation] MR. SPEAKER : But Mr. deorge, you have far far SHY1 GEORGE FERNANDES : Since Shri Ram exceeded the time. Vilas Ji has raised this issue in the House, it is not SHRI GEORGE FERNANDES : Sir, I have hardly fair to say that nothing took p!ace there rather I spoken. I am finishing; wanted to read out some more things ...(Interruptrons) But while concluding my speech I would like to MR SPEAKER : Please wind up n,arrate the final observation/factual position of the SHRI GEORGE FERNANDES : Sir, I am winding case in the High Court. uP SHRl BASUDEB ACHARIA : Sir, you have given MR. SPEAKER . Please conclude your ruling ...(lnterruptions) [Trans la tion] SHRl GEORGE FERNANDES : Sir, Justice Jha further says : ! I have already told thls I "The factual position ol tf,~!:;i.r c~:,,,'be summed 1 us as follows : SHRl GEORGE FERNANDES : Slr, I am making (i) Huge sums of money, tar In excess of the only one point ...(Interruptions) legislative sanction for the services, have Motion of Confidence In JYAISTHA 6, 1918 (Sake) the Council ol Ministers 7 0

teen spent in the Animal Husbandry Judgement. A motion of breach of privilege should Department over the last so many years. be moved against him ....(Interruptions) These expenditures, systematically MR. SPEAKER : Yadavji, A point of order is not effected by making drawals from the a point of order unless it is quoted under any rule. concerned Treasuries, were fraudulent in nature. THE MINISTER OF LAW, JUSTICE AND COMPANY AFFAIRS (SHRI RAM JETHMALANI) : Mr. No. legislative sanction in the shape of Speaker, Sir, this point of order which is being raised additional or supplementary grants1 is a matter of some importance which will arise appropriations has been accorded to these probably again and again in this House. Kindly hear excess drawals till date. us for a few minutes and then you can make up your The State Government was admittedly in mind. I think it is necessary that you should read know of the excess drawals. Yet, no with us Rule 353. remedial action whatsoever, was taken. SHRl SONTOSH MOHAN DEV (Silchar) : You The Government has failed to show its have already given your ruling Sir It cannot be bona tide in not stopping the ongoing reopened. drawals and expenditures. MR. SPEAKER : I have already given my ruling The stand of the State Government that on that, Mr. Law Minister. Let the hon. Member excess drawals are usual phenomena, in conclude his speech. The hon. Member may kmdly the circumstances of these cases, cannot conclude h~sspeech. be accepted. Its plea that it was not aware of the fraudulent nature of the drawalsl [Trans la lion] expenditure until January 1996 is also not / belief-worthy."... SHRI GEORGE FERMANDES : I conclude w~th the words that an appeal was filed in the Supreme MR. SPEAKER : I think it is enough. Court in this matter. A number of renowned Advocates (Interruptrons) were present in the court. This was the judgement of 11th March and it came to Supreme Court on 19th MR. SPEAKER : Please conclude March. The Supreme Court not only upheld the Transla tion] judgment in toto but the whole matter was handed over to the C B I...(/nterruptions) SHRl GEORGE FERNANDES : Sir, Shri Ram 'ilasji has misled the House. I will serve a notice. [English] Zindly provide us an opportunity to raise a discussion MR. SPEAKER : Please sit down. Why do you )n this matter separately. We will serve you a notice not allow him to speak? I have glven my ruling. longwith the document stating that Shri Ram Vilasji Please sit down. I am on my legs. Please allow him ias misled the House. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am going to conclude his speech. Mr. George, one more minute. o conclude my speech. Opposition leader Please ..(Interruptions). SHRi GEORGE FERNANDES . One and a half English] minute, Sir.

MR. SPEAKER : Please conclude. [Tra nsla t~on] SHRI GEORGE FERNANDES : Sir, I want to Mr. Speaker, I would hke to place the manifesto :onclude. I am concluding, Sir. of the Congress Party before you. 'Transla tion] Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to request the SHRl DEVENDRA PRASAD YADAV : I am on a Leader of Opposition to have a glance over the point Joint of order. mentioned in the preamble of their menifesto

'English] [English] C MR. SPEAKER : Please sit down, there is a point "An election presents a choice to the lforder. people. The choice to vote a party Into Government. The cho~ce to vote a 'Translation] cand~dateto office. SHRI DEVENDRA PRASAD YADAV : Mr. Speaker. What 1s the cho~cetoday? he House is being misled. Hon'ble Mr. George The Congress presents an lndla with a 'ernandeb is misleading the House Alter the bright future. The Opposition presents an decision of the High Court, which has been read out lnd~athat will be thrown back to the past lere, the State Government has approached the Supreme Court. He has misled the House by not The Congress presents an lndla whlch IS making a reference of the Supreme Court's growing, creating wealth, generating jobs Motion of Confidence in MAY 27, 1996 the Council of Ministers 7 2

and providing more incomes. The Perhaps, he had formed the Government under some Opposition presents an lndia which will compulsions, although he knew that he will not get be stagnant, inward-looking, poor and the requisite majority. likely to become bankrupt. I believe ...(Interruptions) The Congress presents an lndia which rejoices in its unity and celebrates its [English] diversity. The Opposltion presents an lndia SHRl N.V.N. SOMU (Madras North) : With only that will be inflamed by caste and religious 55 MPs, you had formed a Government. What did passions. you do then? You are speaking against this now The Congress presents an lndia that has . . .(Interruptions) earned new respect among the Countries of the world. The Opposition presents an (Translation] lndia that will be ignored, ridiculed and * SHRl CHANDRA SHEKHAR : Mr. Speaker, Sir, to" forgotten. make them understand my point, I now will speak in The Congress presents an lndia with a English. . stable Government and a vibrant economy. The Opposition presents an lndia with a [English] totteri~-6overnmentand a collapsing I formed the Government only after the letter of economy." Rajiv Gandhi was sent to the Rashtrapati saying that he will be supporting my Government. I did not torm [Translation] the Government till Rajiv Gandhi sent the letter on Please do not pay heed to such fhoughts behalf of the Congress Party to the Rashtrapati . . .(Interruptions) saying that he will be supporting that Government. I am saying this for the benefit of some friends who With these words, I conclude my speech. are angry for obvlous reasons. They understand me SHRl CHANDRA SHEKHAR (Ballia) : M;. at least, if they do not understand Hindi. Speaker, Sir, I am not going to deliver a speech. And I can understand their anger ...(Interruptions) With your permission. I would like to speak for a minute SHRl N.V.N. SOMU : Sir, we are listening to the translation. Our friend, George Fernandes has delivered an impressive speqch. I would only like to say that the [Trans la tion] Samta Party had made electoral alliance with the BJP in Bihar. We had not made electoral alliance SHRl CHANDRA SHEKHAR : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I with them in the entlre country. Samta Party is not do not want to indulge in any confict. i would like to committed to implement in any way the manifesto of express my views about the Bhartiya Janata Party, the BJP We have been saying this right from the which I have already expressed time and again. I begmnlng, wh~chhas also been said by hon. Prime respect Atal jee very much, but in the present M~n~sterthat In the exist~ngsituation the country circumstances this discussion is going to be need a system based on co-existence. He should meaningless. The consensus about which he was have pondered over this thing on the day the talking is not a consensus but is creating bitterness President had invited hm to torm the Government. and conflict. in my opinion to reach at top is one thing but to relinquish that post is even greater. I Mr Speaker, Sir, in order to avoid the wrong hope a personality like the hon. Prime Minister tradition I am saying thls. I am not one of those should quit the office without any further discussion people who want that the BJP in any case, should on this matter. not form the Government. In the democracy, if the BJP gets majority, they will form the Government. SHRl SANAT MEHTA (Surendranagar) : Sir, I rise Th~sIS the tradition in the country. Just now an hon. to oppose the Coonfidence Motion moved by the Member has said that the President is bemg criticised. Prime Minister. I will only limit myself to the I say that no such criticism has taken place. In the observations which are only concerned with and past too, if a party did not get the majority and the related to the Confidence Motion....(Interruptions) President mvited them to form the Government and MR. SPEAKER : Order in the House please. also asked them on whose support they are gomg to torm the Government. Vajpayeej~should have (Interruptions) mobilised the support, wh~chhe could not. It IS not SHRl SANAT MEHTA : The people have elected in accordance w~ththe Parliamentary conventions I us tor maintaining the democracy and tor maintaining did not expect this thing from a personality like him the national unity. Slr, I will limit my observations to I im saying this because I have great respect for these main aspects. Slr, a lot of propaganda has h~mThe speech, he aelivered today, is not in been done in thls House. Sir, when almost all the accordance with his personality as the leader of BJP. political parties and the political analysts and the 73 Motion of Contidencc in JYAISTHA 6, 1918 (Saka) the Council of Ministers 74 columnists in the country have accepted that the and if they wanted to test whether they have a worklng of the election of the Eleventh Lok Sabha majority or not they should have stuck to the has not given very clear verdict in favour of any principle. But this was a part of the game plan. So, political party, it is only the BJP, in this context, has the first step they took was, all those issues which converted the minority vote into janadesh. Sir, I want were very important issues in the manifesto, all those to brlng out the another aspect. My friend Shri Sharad issues tor which the BJP fought the elections in the Pawar has given details as to how the BJP has streets of lndia and all those issues which they have failed In different States. But along with the political said in every meeting that these are the aims for mandate of the integrity and unity of this country which we are going to the Lok Sabha were set aside. which is a world example of the unlty in dlversity, a Afte'r coming to this House or after getting an social mandate tor remaining in power is also invitation -from the President, they started the game, required. Sir, as far as the 1996 elections are setting aside those main issues and started concerned, BJP has not received the social mandate. appeasing the Opposition. There was no response The BJP has received only three percent of the from them and that did not fr tify. There were Muslim votes. The same is the case with the regional part~es,and the Prime F,Mmister wanted to Christians. The BJP got just 11 percent of the dalit appease them, to wir, over them; knowingly he votes. Also, it has got very negligible percentage of assured that Article 356 of the Constitution will not the tribal votes. While in the case of OBCs the Exit be misused and ail sorts of guarantees were given. poll says that both NF and LF and the Congress got Why were these guarantees necessary if their hands higher share than the BJP. This clearly means that were clean and if they were sure that they will have the Muslims, the Tribals, the Dalits and the Christians a majority? This was also an idea to appease the have largely rejected the BJP. rigional parties so that Shri Chandra Babu Naidu How can a party which received only 23 percent and the leader from Assom Gana Parishad will get of votes proclaim that it has the janadesh to rule? an assurance that they would be safe under the BJP How can a party which has a very narrow social rule. This was also a plan in their game plan. Horse- base and having lack of social mandate be allowed trading is not always the type of horse-trading which to rule the country? How can a party, rejected by the is popularly known. To rriy mind, this is also a horse- poor of India, be supported? trading because they set aside the principles and did the things which they had not accepted in their In the final analysis, one can conclude that the manifesto Things did not stop here. Indian soil could not be contaminated even after the BJP's manured with the Babri Masjid and the Bombay People of lndia could not be misled by such blasts. The elections have proved that the religious gimm~cksbecause people of lndia and the political fundamentalism and religious-based politics could parties have known the true coiour of the BJP. Then not be there in the mainstream. The poor of this what happened? They sent feelers; even indirect country has not voted for the BJP; the poor of this threats were given. One of the top BJP leaders country has given a mandate in this election saying thundered; these are the words and I quote : that alleviation of poverty is the main task in the 'The country will be balkanised if the country. That is one of the reasons why I oppose that people's mandate is subverted." BJP should not be allowed to rule this country. With that view in mind, I oppose the Confidence Motion It was further mentioned that the confirmation of moved by the Prime Minister. the BJP-led coalition In power was essential to save the country from disintegration. Why such a threat Here it is claimed - the Prime Minister has very was necessary from a person like the Home Minister. ably claimed - that they are not going to do anything when the Prime Minister in this country says that the like buying, purchasing or horse-trading. I welcome Issue was only related to one aspect that we want it. But after getting a minority vote and getting an to keep the country united? invitation from the President, why should they evolve a game plan? It has appearec! almost In all the Then, why did I tail? One threat was not enough. newspapers and the magazines that BJP has evolved On the same day, a news comes in the newspapers - a game plan to remain in power. What was the yame a threat comes from Bombay and the exact words plan? The game plan consisted of wooing; it were that there will be a civil war in the absence of conslsted of threatening and it consisted of dividing BJP Government in the country, the Congress and , the Opposition parties. The game plan was published other parties will be responsible for such a situation. in the newspapers and the magazines. As a part of Sir, if confidence was there if the hands were clean. the game plan, they decided that issue like if no horse hands trading was to be done, i: no , abrogation of Article 370 of the Constltution which underhand dealing was to be done, why should there i accords special status to Jammu and Kashmir, be such a threat in a democratic set up? To my mind, common civll code, construction of Ram temple at are we to understand that balkanisation and civil , the slte of the demolished structure at Ayodhya and war are the ultimate goals of the BJP and its allies? campaigning In Kashi and Mathura were avoided in Otherwise, how can such threats and thoughts come the Presldent's Address. If they have a clean hand uppermost in their minds while facing the democratic MAY 27. 1996 the Council of Ministers 7 6

process In the form of vote of conf~dence?My fr~end broadcast, the Prime Minister visited Gandhinagar, Mr Chandra Shekhar r~ghtlysald that ~f Pr~me one of his two constituencies. Mm~sterwas very clear In h~smmd, 11 h~shands There he addressed a janasabha. After janadesh were clean no such thmg was requ~red And I have came the janadesh. We are usually attending public st111 not come across a s~nglerejoinder from the meetings; we are usually attending public meetings; Pr~meM~n~ster rejectlng the story of balkanisat~onor w'e are usually attending rallies. But the Prime that of the story of c~v~lwar should not be c~rculated Minister wanted to go to Gandhinagar, his own when he IS trylng to create consciousness In th~s constituency in Ahmedabad. He addressed a country for the un~tyand democratic process of the lanasabha to celebrate his coronation. What country I thmk no rejoinder was glven It means that happened in this janasabha? On this historic I( was also a part of the game plan and that IS the occasion the country witnessed the first glimpse at reason that I say thai the BJP has no mandate as far the su-raj. What was that first glimpse. This too in as the electorate IS conce~nedThe BJP has no soc~al the land of the Gandhi, the hon. Prime Minister went mandate because the poor people have by and large to the meeting after visiting the Gandhi ashram and rejected the BJP all over the country for whom thls after paying homage to Gandhiji - everybody knows. House 1s meant lor The maln task of th~sHouse IS Within minutes of the Prime Minister leaving the to allev~atepoverty of the dallts the tr~bals etc The janasabha, the BJP activists stripped naked one of Prime M~nlsterexpressed some good feel~ngsabout the seniormost Minister and gav'e him servere the tr~bals But why d~dthe tr~balsnot vote for the beating. Npt only that, a few other Ministers were BJP? It IS because secular~smIS so dear to the dal~ts also the target of their attack; their cars were and the Chr~st~ansWhatever type of secular~smIS so dear to the dal~tsand the Chr~st~ansWhatever destroyed by the angry saffron mob. type of secularrsrri the Pr~meM~n~ster wanted,them I am not saying anything but in the words, of the to accept IS not acceptable to these people and that prominent Dally, under the editorial title 'An ugly 1s the reason oppose the Confidence Mot~on episode' - these are not my words - it is written in one of the prominent Dallies of Delhi and I quote: As far as economlc pol~cyIS concerned t1II th~s day I have not heard the word Swadeshi for wf~lch "Even pol~t~cal squabbles are the Swad&q+r Jagtan Manr? was created Full understandable, but if rival groups attempl support -&as glven Even RJP pres~dentgave a lot of to settle scores between them through support but everybody has forgotten Swadeshi Why? barbaric acts ..." It IS because I feel that all rver the world the These are also not my words communal part~es have no economlc policy whatsoever In any part o! the world because they "We will only be destroying the very llve on rel~g~on-basedpol111cs they llve on the pol~cy fundamental.." of hatred So Sir I f~elthat that might be the reason ' And after the Enron the Pr~meM~n~ster or the BJP [Translation] , would Poi have I~kedto d~spleaseAmer~ca That must SHRl (Nagpur) : The be the reasor, that even In the Pres~dents Address people involved In Tandoor Case talk like this Suade:h was totally avo~ded Swadesh~was no1 .. .(Inlerruptrons) such a controversial Issue Swadesh~was not rejected by everybody There are parties on th~ss~de also [English] who are weaded to it but the only Idea was to create SHRl SANAT MEHTA : Klndly listen. This is the a cllmate so tha' they can move the partles, tley can glimpse of su-ral. BJP IS shout~ngslogans in the d~v~dethe parttes they can keep the Members absent streets as : and sorneholrv rernaln In power If thls IS the game plan lk,en 1 oc rot th~nk~t IS r~ghtfor the Pr~me [Translatron] Mm~sterto say tt~atthey are not ~nterestedIn horse tradlng el; "Yeh to jhanki hai, baki to sab baki hai" (this is only a glimpse, rest is yet to come) Another polnt IS about Suarai Swaral was the maln plan Ir the mainfest:, of the BJP That was the very reason :hat AaVanlj! had taken our Swaral Yatra and started ~t from the South TI-115 ~IKIP he dtd not So, the ]hank/ was given at the time of their start from Somnath It IS fortunate for 11s In Gujaral Pr~meMin~ster's Janasabha. Their own Ministers were He started from the South but the result5 have shown beaten; they were made naked and their cars were that 11 dad not cl~ckI~I th~ South The BJP d~dnot get broken One of the Chaman, his bones were broken. any .,c ppcrrt except a small support from Karnataka And they are st111 In the hospital Is this the way of br,tf aL. lar as Swara] 1s concerned the result or the the su-rap If this su-raj is golrlg to come to India, reartlon was that 11 farled to make any reactlon In then this IS the reason we oppose that this the Scutn bill at least ~t has made a d~fferentImpact Government cannot be allowed to stay in the throne In Gujara! A day after the Prlme M~n~sters natlonal of this country for a minute because. 7 7 Motion ol Confidence rn JYAtSTHA 6, 1918 (Saka) the Ccwnc~lu! M~n:%::ers 7 H

[Translation] SHRl SOMNATH CHATTERJEE For f~vehours You have given this jhanki, tomorrow you will now we are dlscuss~ngth~s motlon and not for once, give us more. ne~therthe prim^ Minister nor h~spresent supporter Mr Fernandes has claimed that tt-115Government has [English] the major~tysupport of the House Then what IS thrs exercrse golng on1 That 12why we had made a request Why could the Prime Minister not restrain them to put th~smotlon to vote without any dlscuss~on even till !his day? This whole game in Gujarat has We felt that th~sConstltut~onal aberration called started from October. What type cf things are happening? Valpayee Government should be ended ~mmed~atelv wlthout any rltual I am very sorry to say that a person Sir, the Prme Minster was talking about water. of the eminence of Shr~Atal Blhar~Vajpayee has. I am coming from a constituency where water is spoken In th~sdebate nct as a Prlrnc M~nlsterreally given for half an hour every four days ...(Interruptions) bul more as a devout Sh~vSa~n~k and RSS They have no time to attend to the water tunc't~onar~The manner In wh~chhe has spoken problems.. .(Interruptions) clearly shows that he has no heart as he has not bothered to refer to the relevant Issue, namely trylng [Translation] to prove h~smalor~ty support in the House We can PROF. RASA SlNGH RAWAT : Your Government understand his agony. He will go down In tne history had been in Centre for a number of years and what as a Prime M~nisterof this great country for the kind of action you have Initiated in this regard. brlefest perlo! But we cannot help hlm It IS not our SHRl SANAT MEHTA : For how many months obl~gat~onto keep hlm In power Mr George you will talk about Congress 18 months have already Fernandes was argulng as rf ~t was our duty to keep passed. BJP In power He sa~dthat we have sa~dso many th~ngsabout the Conqress and the Janata Dai that [Englrsh] we have got so many thlngs to be cornplaned about It you could not prov~dea tanker to the people Rut whether Unlted Front comes to power or not do not rule over this country Th~s1s the ghmpse of does not mean that 6JP should remaln In power the su-ra/ Nothmg can h~deyour barbar~cacts no without any mandate elther cf the country or 3f the shout~ngcan h~deyour barbar~cacts (lnterrupfrons) malorlty support of th~sHouse Th~sIS enough proof as to what k~ndof democratic Today we have heard a unique speech In th!s values are thsy golng to uphold to plead w~ththelr House I had an apprehension whlcl? i expressed In own people to have barbar~cacts to lock the~r the meet~ngalso that this debate w~llbe utilized for off~ce?If th~sIS the scene wb:t would happen all something else that IS to make electron propaganda over the country (lnterruptrons) and not for the purpose of advert~ngon the real Subject because ~t IS a quest~on01 numbers the questron of head counting Those who talk l~keth~s I would l~keto tell them SHRl RAM NAlK Are elect~onscomlnp? that no leader of Natlonal stature belongmg to thew party has ne~thertried to check these ~nc~dentstakmg SHRl NIRMAL KANTl CHATTERJEE Desp~te place there since October nor condemned them your threat no This shows that these type of thlngs w~llrecur here SHRl SOMNATH CHATTERJEE How long they and In the country In future also could have taken7 Hon Rashtrapat111s mandate was to prove the malor~tyand not to indulge In g~mm~cks [Englrsh] or propaganda Sir even now I would l~keto know Sir I can never support a Party whlch has no as Shrl Chandra Shekhar polnted out do they clam soc~almandate of the poor a Party whlch has no rnajorlty support In the House If not then why should economlc pol~cy a party wh~ch leaves the the debate cont~nuevThat IS why I felt that th~s fundamental values for the sake of remalnlng In opportun~ty w~llbe mlsutll~sedlor purposes whlch power and then talk of h~ghvalues Thls IS a country they thmk will su11 them I was l~sten~ngto the Prime where we have unrty In dwersl'y If the Dal~tsare not Min~stervery closely He was not really address~ng wlth you rf the Chrlstlans are not with you rf the the Members of the House to persuade them to vote Mushms are not wlth you what kmd of a unity are in h~sfavour but he was address~ngthe people you golng to ach1eve7 You have to accept lt and you outslde this House hoplng that he will somehow will have to do someth~ngThat why I say that th~s convlnce them Towards the end of hrs speech he Government can never be supported I feel that at tried to spread !he germs of m~strus: and a feelmg the earlrest ~f the Pr~meMln~ster heeds to the adv~ce of separat~o'n He tr~ed!c div~depeople on the basls by Shr~Chandrasekhar I thlnk ~t would do good to of rel~g~onand. Sir we cannot but protest and protest the~rParty as well as tor the countrv till the last and we shall not rest until this Government With these words. I strongly oppose the vote of wh~chhas no mandate goes out of power from th~s confidence moved by the Prlme M~n~ster. country 7 9 Motion of Confidence in MAY 27, 1996 tho Council of Ministers 8 0

Mr. Speaker, s&,an attitude of injured innocence manoeuvres or secret deals? Obviously that was has been taken as if we are doing great injustice being done for all these days that have elapsed. today. Why does Shri Vajpayee not think as to why Sir, many of the hon. Members have rightly said nobody is coming to his support? Today I find that here, that once they got into power, threats started even a fractured Samata Party is supporting him. coming. The so-called responsible leaders are They have no alliance with the Akali Dal. hurling threats, threats of civil war, threats of SHRl SURJEET SlNGH BARNALA (Sangrur) : balkanisation, threat of disintegration, threat of They have. collapse of internal security, threat of dissolution etc. Is it not blackmailing the country and backmailing SHRl SOMNATH CHATTERJEE : I stand corrected. They have no alliance with Samata in the Mambers of Parliament? What are the real objects Punjab or Haryana. They fought against each other. of saying all these things? I heard the other day on That is also a post-election alliance. television one of the b~gfunctionaries of BJP saying, "We cannot win over anybody from Left, therefore, Well, this United Front is formed after the election. we are trying others. Left are too principled. They have been talking about it as if we have Therefore, we are trying with the regional Parties." committed a crime. The Prime Minister was saying By that what was meant? The regional parties had that theirs has become the largest Party in all fought against BJP; they had fought against the Parliament. I did not expect that Mr. Vajpayee will communal parties; and they had fought on secular stake his claim only because of an electoral fortuity. plank. On what basis are they being asked for their Does their getting 194 seats with their allies with 20- support? I was waiting to hear from Mr. Fernandes 25 percent votes mean that they have the majority as to why he decided to give his support. support In the House? It is verv clear. Of course, I personally have great respect for Shri Vajpayee. I He is not here at the moment. Why he decided have the great opportunity of being in this House to support the BJP? together with him for so many years. I have personal MR. SPEAKER : He is here respect for him. But when things like this come from SHRl SOMNATH CHATTERJEE : Oh! Is he here? a person of his eminence, one cannot but question, Good. Sir, his concern was that why should U.F. be "Is he a free man or a prisoner of his Party, the formed? Why should U.F. be called to form a Saffron Brigade?" Government when you have criticized each other? I Sir, the invitation of the President obviously would like to know did Mr. Fernandes support the meant that the acceptor would have the minimum demolition of Babri Mosque. Do you support what basis of support for running the Government. If Shri has been said in the BJP's manifesto. May I read, Vajpayee knew that he had no majority in the House, Sir, with your permission? Page 15, last paragrath: on what basis could he accept the invitation of hon On coming to power the BJP Government will Rashtrapatiji? Sir. I am not going into the decision of facilitate the construct~onof a magnificent Sri Ram the President Mr Fernandes has tried to provoke us Mandir at Janmasthan in Ayodhya which will be a to go into it but I am not doing so Sir, the only basis tribute to Bharat Mara. This moved some of the people for this could be that they wanted to get into power in our land. The concept of Ram lies at the core of by hook or crook, to remain there even for a few their conscience. Then, I shall take it that Mr. days - and I will try to humbly show how they have Fernandes now supports; Mr. Fernandes now misused these few days that have elapsed when supports economic policy of the BJP; Mr. Fernandes they have remamed in power without any authority. now supports their pledge to disband the Minorities Sir, they talk of Constitutional propriety and they talk Commission: their pledge to repeal Article 370 of of political morality, but what sort of political morality the Constitution. Does Mr. Fernandes support all can we see when they have no support in Parliament. these? Then, if he is not supporting that - is he on Shri Sharad Pawar has rightly reminded of what Shri a principled alliance with BJP? While he did not Vajpayee has said in his electlon campaign. The answer this, he did not refer to this, he only gave leader who had been projected as the future Prime us if I may not be misunderstood - lecture as to Mmister sald, "I give my word that I shall not stake - how we should behave; as to how we shall look my claim unless I get at least 225 seats." He said after ourselves. We have also come with the mandate that. But there is a deflcit of 75 seats. he knows ihat of the people. I do not know what is Samata Party's he is in splendid lsolat~onIn this House. Nobody IS with them. That is why, Sir, we have been waiting for mandate. Today we find that there is also a fracture so many days to know how this minority could be in the Szmata Party. Even with eight Members they transformed Into a majority. What was the magic, cannot remain together. what was the game-plan, if the intention was not to Mr. Speaker, Sir, as I said not only have they manoeuvre, if the intention was not to win some utilized this period to hold our threats, take up sort Members with lollipops, or if the intention was not to 01 a blackmailing attltude but how have they rnisued make crude attempts at what is known as horse- it for the sake of their party, not for the governance trading? Could there be any other method of getting of the country. Within one day or two days we saw a majority In this situation without indulging in television shows going on where every Mlnister war 8 1 Motion of Confidence In JYAISTHA 6. 1918 (Saka) the Council of M~nrsfers 82 maklng promlses without even having the right to important decision of approving this counter continue; without being aware whether they could guarantee. There is no objection! Then I take it that be able to be on this side of the House on the first It has been done. of June. Everybody was making promises everybody Sir, I do not think, there can be anything more was announcing policies. Which Minister was not politically and administratively incorrect. This is doing it? Of course, our very wry good friend Mr. nothing but an affront to this House and also an Slkander Bakht lost five to six days. He at least did affront to Rashtrapatiji because he has desired that not go on maklng pronoucements either on urban the majority must be proved, it means, he obviously affairs or on employment or on external affairs. Except meant befor~any serious or important decisions are your picture with the Ha] pilgrims, we did not see taken. any activity? So what did you propose to do? What did you really think so as to propose all this? Was Sir, the people of this country have decisively it not your political morality which demanded that voted for secularrsm and against communalism. We you should first get the mandate of this House which feel, it is our solemn obligation as Members of this the President wanted you to get. If the Presrdent had hon. House not only to accept the verdict of the come to a decison that you had the majority, you had people but to see that the politics of this country is the mandate, you would not have put this condition not polluted by communal and fundamentalrst forces that you should get the support of the House by 31st which are out to destroy the unity and rntegrity of of May. Therefore, when the President was himself in this country. I feel that the contrnuation of this doubt and you have not proved your majority in the Government in power for every second means not House - of course, you have no majority in the country only showing disrespect to the people's mandate but - you had gone on a spree of making promises, also amounts to weakening of the secular fabr~cof policy announcements and what not. this country. My'very good friend. Mr. Jaswant Singh - I do Sir, we are very sorry that our respected not know whether he originally getting into the North Rashtrapatiji because of some Constitutional Block because Finance Ministry was earlier decided obligation had to indulge a few days back In an to be given to somebody else or I do not know irrelevant exercise of addressing both the Houses whether somebody wanted it and did not get it. he assembled together because the Government whrch also made announcements for the next three or four is yet to prove its right to govern could have nothing or five years. First of all please see whether you will to tell the people until its right was established. But remain Minister for seven days What else is this Sir. I must take very serious exception, to the very than misleading the people and the country? Sir. I conscious attempt that was made to create a believe that political propriety demanded that such simulated situation. Consciously they ommittted any announcements should have been made only after reference to the abrogation of article 370. adoptron they proved the majority on the floor of this House. of a uniform civil code, of Hindutva, of the construction of Ram Mandir at Ayodhya, of disbandment of 17.00 hre. Minorities Comrnrssion and they consciously did not Sir, even for ten days they cannot show a united mention even anythrng about what was going to Cabinet. A very distinguished Member was absent happen after the demolitron of the Babri Masjrd During the campaign they had relied on this and that even from the first Cabinet meeting, the second Cabinet meetmg and what do you know further, they very evening, one of the distinguished Members of cannot even put up a united stand on very important this House in the BJP benches, who has just now claimed, rightly though, that he has won by the issues. highest majority in Maharashtra, went on television Sir, there is one very important, matter. They came claiming, "This is only our frrst year's quota of work. to be sworn in on 16th and today is 27th. I do not we have not given up any of our demands." The know whether my information is correct or not and I President did not say. "thrs IS the first year's quota shall stand corrected, if I am wrong. I am told that of work." there was a special Cabinet Meeting today at 1.15 Therefore, it was openly said: "Yes, we shall p.m. to approve the rivised Coun'er Gurantees of the contmue to do this. We shall support the repeal of Enron Power Project Was it politically proper? Was Art~cle370." They were not glving up therr plan to it administratively just? If my information is incorrect, construct a temple at Ayodhya. They have mentroned please tell us! You are on the threshold of losing other things In their agenda. whlch were given so your posltion today. In the absence of any claim ot ma)ority even now - obviously you have not majority, much prominence. They deliberately omrtted that to the hon. Prime Minister said, "You may be greater in prolect, what I call, a simulated secular credsntral number...", he said that at one time of his speech. for it. Sir, say that thrs attitude IS nothmg but insmere during his speech - such an important decision is and ephemeral. being taken on the day this Confidence Motion is You have deliberately tried to grve an impression being discussed. The Cabinet of this country which to the people of th~scountry that you have changed is on trial, yet to prove its mandate is taking a very you priorities and that you have changes your MAY 27. 1996 the Council 01 Ministers 84 policies and programmes. The President did not the Minorities Commision in Maharashtra. Nelther mention anything in his Address, which shows that their election manifesto nor the President's Address those parts of their election manifesto have no longer had advocated for its reconstitution until yesteiday's been inslsted upon by thls party. Slr, that was ngt so. contrived message to the Maharashtra Government. Therefore. I am very sorry to say that even the office of Sir, I cannot but notice, without being personal, the President was misutilised to mislead the nation. there are people in today's Treasury Benches who Sir, the Prime ~lnrstergave a broadcast to the have been found guilty or allegedly participant. - I nation on the Television. He did not, rightly according am not sure - allegedly to be involved in the Bombay to him in keeping with the Presldent's Address, riots. There has been a detenu under the National make any references either to the demolition of the Security Act or TADA - I do not know. Illegal arms Babri Mosque or the constructi~nof ihe Temple but were seized from him. Had any action taken by the he made one observation and I quote : BJP Government or that the Government in He has sald Maharashtra against that person or any such person, wherever he may be? This Government owes an "If the problems related with religion are answer. The Party owes an answer to the people. not resolved for a long period of tlme. Then Therefore, why has this sudden iostruction been the result 1s what happened in Ayodhya" given to the Chief Minister of Mah'arashtra, except What is !he significance of this statement expect today for public consumption if it can impress some to give threats? Slr, I cannot think of a more shocking Members of this House? approbation of one of the most heinous happenings Sir, I am sure, not a tear will be shed in the in the histoiy of our country country as this Government is being voted out of Sir, our Prime Mlnister has given another power. Sir, this country deserves deliverance from interview In one of the newspapers, which is close comunal operators. Sir, as I said, the accidental to them. He said, emergence of BJP as a single largest Party is "If the mlnor~trescontmue to think in the nothlng but an electoral arithmatic. It does not give language of minoritylsm, then the majority rlght to anybody, to any Party either to claim the will start thlnklng In the.language of right to governance or right to shape the future of majoritlsm and this will Increase the gulf this country. Sir, no doubt, we have many problems between the two communities." to solve. But hardly religious obscurantists can say that or can hardly perform to solve those problems. He speech today was. of course.different. Only We have our secular commitments to keep. The a few days back, this was stated by him when he people of this country deserve a Government which was probably expecting that there would be deserters will fight against communal divide of the people and from this sldo or he would be able to procure some the country. We cannot play wlth our unity and defection Sir, he made 11 very clear because Ile has integrity The secular parties have formed the United own constituency serve Sir, lest it was thought that Front - however, Mr George Fernandes may try to he was softened In his stance on the temple Issue. rldicule it - to provide a secular humane and pro I quote what he sald on the temple issue people Government and that should take charge "Our goals are the same. It is a part of our soon. strategy. as to whlch party adopt at whlch Sir, I repeat Mr. Chandra Shekhar's suggestion. po~ntof trme, strategy has to always be I say to the Government that enough 1s enough. For flexlble " sake of the country and the people, I request the Slr what else is rt but double speak? You project usurpers of the powers, to please go. You have no someth~ngIn the Presldent's Address You say rlght to remain a minute longer The people of this somethino in your Address to the nation and then country, at least, are entitled to be governed by those outslde you go on reiterating what your election who command majority inside the House. So, those manifesto 1s In all ~tswldth and amplitude. The who got 20 percent vote cannot have any claim to leading personalit~es~f the BJP say: "Yes, th~s1s our be majority, any right to majority. Sir, as such I oppose first year's programme of actlon. We are not giving thls Motion and I am sure this nation opposes this up any of these thlngs' They are not havlng the Motion political courage to rnentlon ~t In the President's SHRl P. CHIDAMBARAM (Sivaganga) : Mr Address Speaker, Sir, I rise to oppose this Motion and l will Sir, one thing IS very clear Yesterday I fould that be very brlef. Sir, in the last 15 days or 13 days to in another moment of agony our Prune Minster has be exact, we have been subject to a number of new given an advice to the Maharashtra Government to constitutional precepts and prlnclples, a number of revive the Srikrlshna Commlsslon Sir, he has referred political lectures, a number of threats, blandishments, to that But nowhere rt has been mentioned earlier, inducements. Yet, the hard reality is that the no protest was made and the BJP had accepted the Government of the day has not been able to win a abolition of the Srrkrlshna Cornmlssion and also of single Member belonging to other Parties to its side. 8 5 Mot~on cl Confidence ~n JYAISTHA 6, 1918 (Saka) the Counol of Mmsters 8 6

Their strength remains frozen at 194 The Prime SHRl SOMNATH CHATTERJEE They said that Minister quite candidly admitted that he does not openly. have a majority. SHRl P CHIDAMBARAM Does that mean-that If he did not h.ave a majority, if he knew that he the TDP can be touched7 Does that mean that DMK did not have a majority, then why did he move this or TMC can be touched? Does I! mean that the AGP Motion? Is it because he thought that by his oratorical can be purchased? Does rt mean that the Janata Dal skllls he could win over anyone today? Is it because can be broken? May be In 1977, may be In 19€!9, .he thought that by his poetry and his passion he may be In 1970 (lntsrruptrons) could win support today? The mandate of the electorate in the 1996 election is very clear No party-and I said th~swhen PROF RASA SlNGH RAWAT You were In power I felicitated you - no slngle party, nobody has the at that tune Then what happened (Interrupt~ons) mandate to form a Government today. of a single party. The mandate IS only for a coal~t~onThe mandate is for a secular, liberal and democrat~c SHRl P CHIDAMBARAM . Please hear me coal~tion.That mandate ought lo be tulf~lledby all of Slr, today every voter In every constituency us sitting here. In other countries, political parties and miembers have taken two months, three months exefc~sesthe utmost v~gllance to put together a Government. There is nothing wrong What happened In Tam11 Nadu in :he last month? about that There IS a ct~urn~ngIn this nat~onAs a There was a rul~ngparty It r ad a brute major~ty Its reult of that churnmg ~tw~ll be diff~cultto put together M~n~stersand ~tsMembers could not enter therr a Government but we must have made that effort constltuencles Boards were put there saylng Do What the United Front IS doing IS to put together a not enter our constltuencv Todsy every Member of Government There IS nothlng wrong w~ththat 11 11 th~sHouse and every member of every elected body will. There reflect the will of the malorrty What the IS put on not~ceThe people are no longer sleep~ng BJP d~dwas a hasty, greedy 1:surps:lon of power or s~lent It we betray the~rfa~th they w~llrlse In and when they were invited only tor consultation Th~sIS protest and throw us out linterrupt~ons)None of us the difference between what the BJP d~dand what who has been elected on a TMC t~cketor a TDF the United Front IS trymg to do. We may succeed, we t~cketor a DMK tlcket or the t~cketof any other party may not succeed, that is not the polnt. At least we IS ava~lablefor belng purchased by the BJP That are making an effort to f~ndout where lies the they should have known (Interruptions) A former majority. Chief M~n~sterbelongmg to tbe~rparty sa~d 'Walt and see We shall conjure a niajorrty' Was he a Sir. In parl~amentarydemocracy there IS only one magiclan? A M~nistersltt~ng In the f~rstrow sald rule In Parliament. In th~shighest body the Pr~me "There are ways and means tor gettlng a malor~ty* Minister must command the majorlty Prune Mmister 'My dear fr~end Shr~Pramod Mahalan sa~d"If Vajpayee, for whom I have great respect and someone goes from my party he 1s a defector but 11 atfection - and this will be the last occaslon I w~ll someone comes to my party he IS a convert "He call h~mPr~me Mln~ster Vajpayee - d~dnot have a sa~dthat It IS reported In the Trmes of lndra Let us majority and d~dnot have the ability to command the make ~tvery clear that there IS not one who IS w~ll~ng majority. He should never have accepted that office to support the BJP, except the~r194 Members And Sir, a very senlor correspondent today described 11 that IS clear to every one here then why contmue Shri Vajpayee and compared him to Micamber. he this debate? The !me has come to vote There is no said when he accepted his office it was w~th purpose In contlnulng th~sdebate? The t~mehas Micamberish hope. Another correspondent described come to vote There IS no purpose In contlnulng th~s him as he descended the steps ol Rashtrapati debate Does Mr Vajpayee say that he st111 hopes to Bhavan, with that letter in his pocket, that his win support In the House? If he does not then why expression was like a child with amazement Thanks continue th~sdebate? to cellular telephone, by the tlme he descended the My learned friend. Mr Somnath Chatterjee lasf step the message had been flashed to his office ment~oneda number of announcements made by that he had been appomted Pr~me~~niste; At that Ministers. My d~stmgulshedfr~end Mrs Swaraj tr~ed point I think, the thoughtful Vajpayeejee was to impose her personal code of moral~tyupon overtaken by a greedy party. They went Into Doordarshan and All lnd~aRadio They w~llbecome firecrackers and laddoos without reflecting on free tomorrow. The Defence M~n~stersa~d that he whether they had the capacity to command a majorlty would increase the Defence budget I do no! know What did they take us for' They took us for if he consulted the F~nanceMm~ster before he said purchasable commodit~es The CPI cannot be that. The only one who observed great restram! after touched, the CPM cannot be touched At least the mandatory, customary f~rstpress conlerence, was Somnath Babu and lndrajit Bahu must be grateful for my friend Mr. Jaswant Smgh and even I comphment small meroies h~mfor that There is one th~ngwhrh he sa~d,which 8 7 Motron of Confidence in MAY 27. 1996 the Council of Ministers 8 8

leaves me in complete amazement. He said that BJP given only 20 percent of the votes and 30 percent of party's plank is one thing, the BJP Government's the seats in this House, you do not have a mandate plank is another. This is a new idle of parliamentary today. Therefore, morality requires, constitutional democracy. Every party is voted to power to pr-inciples require and your love and affection for implement its plank. Are you saying that you have this country require that you should go at the earliest. given up your plank? If you have, then you must Sir, I have no doubt that Mr. Vajpayed loves my honestly say that. .. (Interruptions) country as much as I do. I have no doubt in his private moments, he reflects upon the error that was [Translation] committed on 16th of May. But that error can be SHRl PRABHU DAYAL KATHERIA (Ferozabad) : undone only by gracefully leaving office. Hofl'ble Minister you please first read your manifesto. Sir, my submission is that this Motion is a futile Motion of a Government which knew it is not in the [English] majority and does not have the ability to command SHRl P. CHIDAMBARAM : I am not a 'Mantri a majority. The Instruments of the Instructions, the mahodaya', Mantri mahodayas are there. Governor's Committee, the Sarkaria Commission, all have said that only he who can command the majority Sir, I am trying to understand this. A party is can become Prime Minister. I wish Mr. Vajpayee had voted to Government to implement its manifesto i hat that support. He does not have it today. He cannot is the basis of parliamentary democracy. If you have win that support. I urge upon him most humbly let given up your plank, say that you have given up this country get a Government. Since the middle of your plank. Say that you have given up your demand March we have not had an effective Government. Let to repeal Article 370. Say that you have given up this country get a Government, let Mr. Vajpayee your principle to impose a uniform civil code. Say gracefully leave office so that a new Government that you have given up HindutbA. Say that you have can be sworn in and we can get on with the job of given up your demand to build the temple in Ram governing this country. Janmsthan or where the Babri Masjid stood. But if you do not do that and yet say, we will form the SHRl SRIKANTA JENA (Kendrapada) : I just draw Government but we will no-t given up the plank, then your attent~onto Rule 115. 1 have already given a I call you wolf in sheep's clothlng. Why do you want notice. While the hon. Member Mr. George Fernandes us to come and support you? The Prime Minister was making a speech on the Motion, he misled the accused all of us as practis~ngpolitics without House by quoting incorrect observations of the Patna principles. We are unprincipled politicians, leave us High Court. I just draw your attention to the High alone, please do not woo us, please do not ask us Court's judgement and the conclusion. Therefore, I for support. may kindly be permitted for that. The judgement says There 1s another statement to which I must take like this : exception. The Prime Minlster said that there are "Before this, I must make it clear that the only two ways to resolve dispute like Ayodhya - one observations or findings as contained in is dialogue and the other is leg~slation.I am sure the this judgement have been made for the Prime Minister is a scholarly man, a thoughtful man purpose of these petitions. They should and chooses h~swords carefully. He ruled out not be construed as court's opinion on adjudication. What does that mean? It sends a very ,merit of the case in any way nor they shall sinister message throughout the country. He said be construed as reflection on any there are only two methods - dialogue and indwidual The directions as given herein legislation. Does he rule out adjudication? Does he above should also not be understood as respect the the authority of the High Court where the indictment of any individual or individuals." cases are pending? Does he not respect the authority Therefore, Sir, my submission is that the hon. of Supreme Court? Then I ask another question. I Member Shri George Fernandes had misled the ask this with great sadness. Assummg that dialogue House. and legislation are the only two methods, how did the Sangh parrvar d~scoverthe third method of AN HON. MEMBER : You can move a ,Privilege demolition? ...(Interruptions) How does it justify the Motion against him. third method of demolition? SHRl SRIKANTA JENA : I will certainly do that. Sir, it is unfortunate today that millions of lndians I am just making a submission now ...(Interruptions) pee the BJP as an illiberal party, millions of lndians SHRl NIRMAL KANTl CHATTERJEE : Let there see the BJP as a non-secular party, millions of be a Motion of Privilege moved against him lndians see the BJP as an exclusionary party. The .. . (Intsrruptions) BJP may get wln a mandate on a different day. If they do, they are certainly entitled to rule. No one SHRl SRIKANTA JENA : Sir, I would request you can challenge, no one can complam. But if you are to kindly remove it from the proceedings and I am seen as illiberal, if you are seen as non-secular, if bringing a Privilege Motion against the hon. Member you are seen as exclusionary, and you have been who had misled this august House. Motion of ConNdence in the Council 01 Mtnrsters 9 0

MR. SPEAKER : I will go through the records. the Member concerned for the purpose of (Interruptions) ascertaining the factual position in regard to the allegation made." MR. SPEAKER : I said that I would go through the records and see that. That is precisely that I will do. (Interruptions) SHRl GEORGE FERNANDES , Thank you, Sir THE MINISTER OF CIVIL AVIATION AND [Transla tion] TOURISM (SHRI V. DHANANJAYA KUMAR) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, the hon. Member Shr.i George SHRl MADHUKAR SARPOTDAR (Mumba~North Fernandes had said that he would authenticate and West) : The Leader of this House. Shri Atal Bihari lay the papers on the Table of the House. Vajpayee, has put up the vote of Confidence Motion here. I have been hearing a lot of things about this SHRl GEORGE FERNANDES : Mr. Speaker, Sir, Motion since mornlng After hearing all this, I welcome the Privilege Motion to be moved so that whatsoever 1 viewed about it. I want to put forth here the entire judgement can be dis~ussedin this House in a few words. and the people allowed to know what exactly the High Court had said about the Government of Bihar. Mr. Speaker, Sir, Shr~Vajpayee was called by the President to form the Government and being the SHRl SHARAD YADAV : Sir, I accept that leader of the largest party he was called He . . . (lnlerrup tioos) constltuted the Government Prior to that no party SHRl RAM' VILAS PASWAN : Sir, what is the had staked ~tsclaim to form the Government But verdict of the Supreme Court? ...(Interruptions) when they came to know that here B J P Shiv Sena SHRl CHANDRA SHEKHAR :.Mr. Speaker, Sir, I and other partles alllance IS form~ngthe Government, shall request the hon. Members not to be led by emotions. then thls fear stalked In the heart of the opposltlon If the matter goes to the Privileges Committee, the that 11 thelr Government remamed In the country, ~t Privileges Committee will call for the files of Bihar would be very diff~culton the~rpart to work Havmg Government and this is not a healthy practice. thought so they formed a front agalnst us namlng as Natlonal Front In this national front all those who SHRl SRIKANTA JENA : I will press for ~t never gathered altogether by th~sday, they all SHRI CHANDRA SHEKAR : You may press for 11. gathered, such as Communist When there was lnd~ra I am not saying anything about it. But the thing is, he Gandhi s Government they had been ~nstrumentalIn quoted one portion of the judgement and you have the fall of the Kerala Government at that tlme by quoted another portion of the judgement. The mtsustng art~cle356 You m~ghtbe knowmg about ~t proceedings should be corrected accordingly and Not even so Congress and all these people never the matter should be over here. Please do not refer sat together by th~sday As and when the opportunity it to the Privileges Commissior! This is my opinion came to form the Government particularly coalit~on SHRl BlJU PATNAIK : Mr. Speaker. Sir, the Government In th~scountry Congress has always problem is Mr. George being carr~edaway by his played such a role You form the Government todsy own emotions is nothing new in this House He we support you and when the Government IS formed supported the Janata Party Government ferociously Congress plays ~tstr~ck It has been my experience in this House one day and then backed out the next by t~lldate and due to th~ssupport, they are farm~ng day. It is not new for Mr. George Fernandes the Nat~onalFront Government We have certainly . .(Interruptions) The fact of the matter IS, he is barking formed the Government and w~thmten days after the up the wrong tree. He is aiming at the Chief Minister constitution of the Government these people want of Bihar, who, himself on the contrary, has seen to us to execute the work of ten years But it can not the arrest and punishment of more than 43 people. be so. All the Members made their statements here. He wanted to complete this and that IS why he went Wherein our Maharashtr~anleader Shri Sharad Pawar up to the Supreme Court and the Supreme Court also part~cipatedin this debate A bit of aspersions gave it to the C.B.I. There IS nothlng new about it. All were cast on our party. I want to ask Mr. Sharad I want to say is that Mr. George Fernandes. In his Pawar and Mr. Banatwalla why did they come to our speech, was only barking up the wrong tree. It does dias when our party was very bad as clalmed by them. not touch the Chief Minister at all Thal is all I want They might have wlth some purpose, and when that to say now ... (Interruptions) purpose was served, they started criticismg my party. MR. SPEAKER . Mr. Jena, Under the Directions You people should make an assessment of your- by the Speaker, Lok Sabha, you have brought to the selves as well wh~lediscussing In this House notice of the Speaker certain Inaccuracies in the ...(Interruptions) I would humbly request all of you statement of the Member. He had given it in writing. that you have expressed yourselves so am~ably. The next step Is that the Speaker would ascertain from the Member. Directions 115 (3) says : [English] "The Speaker may, if he things fit, bring You have tried to express that you are the only the matter to the notice of the Minister or honest person in this House MAY 27. 1996 the Council of Ministers 92

[English] Do your thlnk that all the rest are commlttlng MR. SPEAKER : If the hon. Member has made errors? Shr~Ch~darnbararn has clted a good example any allegation, I will go through the record and if it He could not ma~ntairigood -elaficns with Shr~ is necessary, I will call you. Naraslmha Rao so he quit the Congress party The KUMARI MAMTA BANERJEE : No, Sir. YOU allow same 1s the pos~t~onof Natlonal Front Th~s1s a me tor personal explanation under Rule 357. combmation of such partles who had qu~tCongress and jorned other part~es Later on, they took all the MR. SPEAKER : I will go through the record and people In thelr fold to form a Government as was I will see what it is The hon. Member has not made the case In Morarjt s Government I would lrke to ask any allegation against anybody. one quest~nnIn the House, that who was Shrl (Interruptions) Morarj~, I mean wh~chparty d!d he belong to7 We had tho Governmerit led by Shr~Chandra Shekhar [Trans la tion] Who was he') Let you ask hlrn We had the Government headed by Shr~V P S~ngh w' MR. SPEAKER . Please come to the point. Only reslgned (lnterruptmnsl We belleved that th~? two rnlnutes are left for you now. would really do something so he was given a L (Interruptions) of becomlng Prime Minster Now look at the le..uer of the Nat~onalFront Who IS he7 Just thmk about SHRl MADHUKAR SARPOTDAR : I should be h~spast He had quit Congress and jo~nedthe other compensated for the time which is being wasted like group and formed a group there, subsequently this ...(Interruptions) One M.P. has spoken here emerged as the leader of that group and became the .. .(lnterrupt~ons,JMr. Speaker, Sir, so many people Pr~meMlnlster or a leader All th~sg~mm~ck IS golng are kill'ed. nobody sald about them ...(Interruptions) on In this country at the behest of the Congress The illegal arms were recovered from them and they don't people of th~scountry are not so s~mplenow that have any information.. (Interrupt~ons) Shri Sharad they can be taken for a ride they know that to whom Pawarji is present here He became the Chief Minister they shoula elect and wh~chparty should come to of his State after leaving Parhanient I possess arms power and form the Government even today but these are licensed arms. You are I wculd like to ask one another question in the making a hue and cry over it House. I have listened the Debates for a long wh~le [English] Some one told tha! day In and day out, at least one hundred Innocent people are killed dally in our There 1s much ado about nothing country - In Kashn-II~and In Delhi ...(Interruptions) That day. there was a bomb blast al Lajpat Nagar, [Transla tron] New Delh~.How many people from thew party went I was possessing arms and warrant which were to look tor the people beh~ndthe bomblast? prov~dedto me by the pol~cefor self defence. .('lnterrup!iorrsj Who 1s behind all these bomb blasts? Agitations take place. Do you expect from me that I The Presidents Address was golng on, Mamtaj~ should keep the arms at home and go to the agitating whose parents gave her a beautrful name It IS good people to preach and teach them ...(Interruptions) The that Mamtajls heart bluds for mtnorlt~es But I would police has recovered my weapon. A case the police l~keMamtaj~ one q~estlonthat when her heart IS so have given back that arm to me. That is the case full of affectlor d~dshe go to enqulre about the pending agalnst me A conspiracy to tarnish my people who were kllled In the blasts? Dld she bother image by false allegations is going on, and to put an about th&~rwelfare7 (Interrupt~ons) end to that conspiracy IS the most important task of people's reperentatives It doesn't look nice on the [English] part of anybody to argue on wrong points KUMARI MAMTA BANERJEE You people ...(Interruptions) You form the Government but you Geraoed my house four tlmes because I was f~ght~ng are not able to elect your leader or furnish a for the cause of the mrnorlties After demol~tlonof programme, but do you not fail to stand here to Babri Masjrd when everybody was affrald to come make sohe one the subject of your critic~sm.That is to the road I personally went to those areas and all. I want to tell you that if at all our Government rescued the people I also helped all the famllres falls, we are least worried. We are prepared to lace who were affected In the agitation the election afresh. But what about you, you people will not be able to win even half of the seats, you [Translation] have won this time I want to bring home this fact to SHRl MADHUKAR SARPOTDAR They don't look you. (Interrupt~ons) at themselves (Interruptions) Mr Speaker, Sir, they S?RI HINDURAO NIMBALKAR (Satara) : Mr. may speak anythlng or ask any question after my Speaker, Slr, Our leader is speaking. Please ask speech (Inferrup tlons) them to keep qulet 9 3 Motion of Confidence in JYAISTHA 6, 1918 (Saka) the Counc~lof Minrsters 9 4

[English] [Transla lion] MR. SPEAKER : Please bear with him. Thls not One clarification. Whether you can tell the the behaviour of the hon. Members of Parliament. I position wlth regard to the allegation levelled agalnst am sorry to say this. Please behave like hon you that you had threatened the advocates? I want Members of Parliament. That is not the way. You to ask that whether th~sallegation agalnst you is must have self-respect. If not anything else, sell- true7 respect is very important. SHRl MADHUKAR SARPOTDAR It IS totally baseless It IS a false allegat~onbe~ng levelled [Translation] agalnst me You can put a number of false SHRl HINDURAO NIMBALKER : Please ask them allegat~ons One last po~ntSomebody has ever sald to hebave properly. that there w~llbe a clvrl war. ~f BJP Government falls These types of rumours ae preva~llngIn Mumba~c~ty SHRl MADHUKAR SARPOTDAR . Hon SpeaKer, Today the name of Shrl Bala Sah~bhas not been Sir, I will take only two rnlnutes. Refernce has been mentioned I want to tell you that Shr~Bala Sahlb made here about Shri Krlshna Cornmlssion had certainly sa~dthat (Interruptions) therefore the HON. SPEAKER : Only one rnlnute. I have way elect~onsare be~ngheld In the country the way already allowed you for extra two minutes. elect~onresults are cornlng and ~f such sltuatlon rernalns In the country, then, no s~ngleparty w~llbe SHRl MADHUkAR SARPOTDAR I have seen so strong enough to rule the country and a day w~ll here that some leaders have spoken upto forty come when people (Interruptrons) minutes. Reference has been made about Shr~ Krishna Comrn~ssion.I, myself had glven my [English] ev~dencebefore this Comm~ssionfor four days On Out of frustrat~on.people may go for clvll war a speclflc date, I was asked to be present before the That IS h~scontent~on It is not a threat Please court as the advocates of Communists and Muslim understand what he wants to say Unnecessarrly do League had to cross-examine me, but both of them not make capital out of noth~ngand do not were not present in the court Therefore unnecessarily attack the party whlch IS hundred per .. (Interruptions) T he evldence remained ~ncornplete cent a national-m~ndedparty. We are with the natlon Nobody can be blamed tor th~sact If someone IS We are for the natlon and we w~llsacrlf~ce our l~ves guilty. 11 need be for the nation, for the upliftment if the downtrodden Please do not forget that very ~mportaqt [Engl~sh] matter Those who were not present In the court desp~te giv~ngthem summons, that was there rn~stake SHRl BASUDEB ACHARIA He had sa~d~t twlce [Translation] SHRl MADHUKAR SARPOTDAR We like Therefore, Sir, let Shrl Krrshna Comm~ss~onbe musl~msif they love th~scountry, we llke Hlndus there. I with my weapons w~llbe there and let other Sikhs. Christ~ansif they are part of this country. We riots take place there, and rf you want to d~scusson do not l~kethat cit~zensof Bangladesh should come any subject then I am ready to lace any Member of here and settle. People from Paklstan comes here and they Indulge In Bomb-blasts. We will not spare thelr Party that too, not tor a day but for two days such people We want to say these th~ngthrough I am ready to speak out, frankly, before you But ~f you In the House They will have to leave the Country there IS any effort made ~ntent~onallyto mal~gnany party, we will not tolerate it. I also want to subm~t [English] one another pornt. Th~smatter IS very clear. There IS no compromise [E ng11s h] on thls issue We are all lnd~ans We are nat~onal. m~ndedpeople All our people should go together SHRl QAMARUL ISLAM : Sir. I am on a polnt of and flght all those antl-nat~onalact~vitles Each and order. I just want a clar~f~catlon..(lnterruptrons? every Member of th~sHouse should keep th~sIn MR SPEAKER : He has got only one more mlnd That 1s my humble subm~ss~on.:Interrup!mns, r.vnute Why are you spoilmg hrm? MR SPEAKER Mamtaj~,I have told you that I am golng through the records It thele IS anyth~ng (Interruptions) else, I w~llmyself ask you lo expla~n Why are you MR SPEAKER : Sit down, please Do Not waste worried? I will myself request you to explarn 11 there Your tlrne. 1s anythlng on the record SHRl QAMRUL ISLAM : I just wanted a SHRl BlJU PATNAIK Mr Speaker Sir the hon clar~frcat~onfrom the hon Member Member was just makrng a reference (inlerruptronsl 9 5 Mobon of Confidence in MAY 27 1996 the Council ot Ministers 9 6

Does the Prime Minister know? I am sure, he knows The Congress also is confined to a few States that in Orissa the Vice President of the Bhartiya like Orissa, Punjab and Hlmachal Pradesh Janata Party, just on the eve of the election went ...(Interruptions). I am quoting from the newspaper. It and lo~nedthe congress ...(Interruptions) ... he won may be wrong. If I am wrong, please correct me. the election ...(Interruptions) ... Does the hon. Prime Sir, the Janata Dal and its allies are present in Minister know about that? ...(Interruptrons) ... 01 you Bihar, Uttar Pradesh and Karnataka. say, you are not as clean as you want to prove The Left Front remained confined to West Bengal, . (Interrupt~ons) Kerala and Tripura. But they call us regional parties. MR. SPEAKER : Now, Shri I think that now all are regional parties; some may please. be bigger regional parties and some are smaller regional parties. The Congress Party has got about (Interruptions) 30 per cent of votes; the BJP has got about 23 to 26 MR. SPEAKER : Please, time is precious. . per cent of votes; the National Front and Left Front have got 20 per cent and the so called regional [Translation] parties like the DMK, the TDP and the TMC have got SHRl NAWAL KISHORE RAI (S~tamarhi)- Mr. 25 per cent. That means, the United Front now has Speaker. I am on a point ot order. got 45 per cent of the votes, if you add the Congress votes also, now I! comes to mean that 75 per cent MR SPEAKER : Before raising the questlon of of the people are supporting a secular Government po~ntot order you will have to tell me under what and not th~sGovernment. rule you are raising it. I am sorry to say this. We have worked with this (Interruptrons) party, we know BJP very well. We fought , we were in jail together. When the [Enghs h] National Front Government was formed they MR SPEAKER : No, that IS not the case. supported that Government from outside. Many of us were Ministers in them. But it lasted only eleven Yes, Shri Maran. months. We know for obvious reasons they. withdrew SHRl MURASOLI MARAN (Madras Central) : Mr. their support and the Government collapsed In Speaker. Sir, I am very sorry that I have to speak politics there are certain things with whlch one cannot against the Motion moved by the Prime Minister Thiru compromise. Atal Biharl Valpayee. Not that I love Thiru Vajpayee In h~storythe Chrlst~anare IS referred to as two less but I love my people, my language, my culture d~fferentper~ods - before the b~rthof the Chr~stand and the brothers and sisters of the minority after the Chr~st,BC and AD, Llkew~se~n Ihe modern conimun~tymore lnd~athere IS a watershed The destruct~onof Babr~ SII 11 the President Instead of appo~nt~ngTh~ru Masj~dIS the watershed So, we have to cons~der Valpayee as Prime Minister, had asked him to flnd th~ngsthat happened before the destruct~onof Babr~ out and explore the possib~l~tiesof getting the Masjid and after the destructlon of Babr~Masyd The~r malor~ty I think the things would have been different true colours have come out after the destruct~onof now Unfortunately, it d~dnot happen Babrl Mas11 The wounds created by the destructlon of Babrl Maj~dhave not been healea The Slr, we know we have speclal regard and respect apprehens~ons~t has created have not been tor Thiru Vajpayeej~.As the President of the Party addressed Th~ruKarunanidh~ has sala "He is a great person i have heard the broadcast of the Pr~meM~n~ster but he IS in tbe wrong Party' He IS a towerlng the other day He was r~ght he was very nice He peri~amentarianThere IS no doubt, he IS an excellent sa~dlnd~a never was and never will be a theocrat~c Pr~meMlnlster mater~albut the polic~eswh~ch are state Sir I appreclate h~sstatement He prom~sed pushlng him forward are such that we have to be some constraints to the use of Artlcie 356 He careful, that we have to put our toot down and oppose assured that ~mmedlatesteps w~llbe taken to restore the Mot~on the balance of resources In favour of the State 1 Str, ~t is true that the BJP IS the'b~ggest party agree w~thhlm and I appreciate h~mBut he asserted ins~dethe Lok Sabha. But how d~dthey get it7 Where that the events of December 1992 were not the result d~dthey get the vote? Accord~ngthe newspapers, of any pre-planned consplracy I beg to d~fferw~th the BJP has won most' of 11s.seats in the Hindi h~mpeople w~llnot belleve that He may be aga~nst heartland and In Gujarat and Maharashtra Rath Yatra, he may be a moderate But ~t was a consplracy I know that the Government of the day AN HON MEMBER What about Karnataka? also kept qulet at the tlme of the destruct~onof Babr~ SHRl MURASOLI MARAN Slr, I am quoting from Masj~dThat IS why mlnor~tlesd~d not vote for those the newspaper. parties Motion of Confidence in JYAISTHA 6, 1918 (Seka) the Councll of Ministers 9 8

Apart from this, whatever he has said in the Sir, about 'Hindutva', I want to quote what an broadcast is something for the public consumption eminent lawyer has said : after he became the Prime Minister. But what about his manifesto where it has been repeatedly said that "It is a pernicious doctrine evolved aga~nst they shall be guided by their manifesto? Page 6 of Mahatma Gandhi's advice by the H~ndu the manifesto says that the manifesto shall be the Mahasabah in 1924." convenant of their Government. But what disturbs Who said this? It is Nani A. Palkhivala who said this us most is its faith in what is called Hindutva. I you are following that very pernicious and dangerous cannot understand the word cultural nationalism - formula to divide the country, to drive out the why they used it and how they used it. It is said in minorities, to create fear among them. Therefore, I page 15 that the BJP is committed to the concept of am appealing to you to give up the policy. one nation, one people and one culture. This is a dangerous concept. We accept the one nation Sir, 'Hindutva' means manu dharma, which keeps concept. But how can there be one people? I am millions of our people in caste compartments and as different, you are different, you look at us. We untouchables. We will never look at 'Hindutva'. We represent different cultures, we represent different will put our foot down on 'Hindutva'. It is anathema States, we represent different langauges. That is why to whatever we stand for. We belong to a party which Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru said unity in diversity. You has been started by 'Thanthai Periyar' and 'Arignar' want to impose uniformity in India. I warn you, it is Anna. We follow the principles of Dr. Ambedker We not possible. If anybody indulges in uniformity are a party of the backward classes. This 'Hlndutva' another dismemberment like the Sov~etUnion will will oppress us, will suppress us. take place. That is, towards that end you are treading with this policy of one people and one culture Once again, regarding 'one people, one culture' - plurality is a fact of life. It is a permanent feature. 18.00 hrs. which cannot be w~shedaway. If 'Hindutva' means Sir, I belong to a Dravidian group; you belong to nationalism, I ask you, why do you not drop a different group. There are several k~ndsof families 'Hlndutva' means national~sm,I ask you. Sir, why do of language I speak a Drav~d~anlanguage; my Telugu you not drop 'Hindutva'? Why do you not call I? Desam friends speak another branch of Drav~dlan 'nationalism'? Therefore, 'Hindutva' has come to language; the people in the North speak, what they acquire a connotation of a 'Hindu Raj . Sir, ~t IS a call 'Indo-Aryan' language. They think. Uttar Pradesh rejection of India's composite culture and its relig~ous and Madhya Pradesh is India; they forget about South d~versity. ind~a.Another tiking goes l~keth~s They want to establ~shBharatiya Sanskrit Kendra in each Your manifesto speaks about Bharatiya ident~ty dlslridt. Why? How many people speak Sanskrit? Bharatiya society. Bharatiyata. I cannot undarstand . . .(Interruptions) anything at all Therefore, I appeal to you in the name of the unity of the country. 'Do not go In for MR SPEAKER . Just a moment uniformity, that will mean dismemberment of th~s (Interruptions) nation'. Therefore. I have to conclude, havtng SHRl E AHAMED : Sir, our people also have to accepted this mandate from the Pres~dent,I am sorry speak. The time-frame has not been followed how a person of eminence like Thiru Vajpayee continued and formed this Ministry. He knows very MR SPEAKER No, no He IS ent~tledto twelve mlnutes I thlnk, more or less, the hon Member has well. But one thing I appreciate. He did not indulge spoken for about SIX mlnutes Shall I glve you another In horse-trading and suit case or br~efcase culture SIX mmutes and then adjourn the House? For that, I appreciate him and I congratulate h~m.I would say thls was a wasteful exerclse over the last SHRl MURASOLI MARAN Slr, they want to ten or fifteen days. Therefore, I join hands with Mr encourage the study of Sanskrlt and strlctly enforce Chldambaram and with Mr. Chandra Shekher Let us the three language formula In schools Why should they do 119 The three language formula has bacome stop this melodrama today itself. It 1s better to reslgn a tarlure It IS a fraud perpertrated on the people of than to be voted out lnd~aThey want to promote Bharatlya classlcal muslc MR. SPEAKER : Thank you, very much. I know and performing arts What IS Bhart~yaclasslcal there are many hon. Members, part~cularlyfrom the music? Our music In Tam11 Nadu 1s called carnatlc smaller groups, who are desirous of participating In music' If we go to Kerala, the11 dance 1s 'kathakalr the debate We will certainly glve opportunity to as In Tam11 Nadu, II IS called 'bharathanatyam , In many hon. Members as possible We have already Andhra it 1s called 'kutchupud~ ~f we go to Or~ssa, . consumed about five hours and 19 minutes We still It IS 'odlssl They do not know about lndla They have time with us. Tomorrow we will try to want to hold lnd~ain one ~nllorm~tyIt IS a dangerous accomodate as many Members as possible. concept I would say, It IS tasclsm In another torm It 1s very dangerous (Interruptions) Motion of Confidence in MAY 27, 1996 the Council of Minlstors 100

MR. SPEAKER : Please listen, Okay, if you want SHRl SONTOSH MOHAN DEV : It can be at 1.30 to know that, then I would say tentatively 12.15 or P.M. After that we can go for lunch as there is no 12.30 for the Prime Minister's reply, business after that. So, 1.30 P.M. should be the time ...(Interruptions). (Interruptions) SHRl NIRMAL KANTl CHATTERJEE : No no, [Transla tron] voting is a complicated process, Therefore, the voting should start earlier than at 1.30 P.M ....(Interruptions). SHRl RAM VlLAS PASWAN : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would l~keto submit you that kindly call all those MR. SPEAKER : Will you allow the Minister to members who want to speak today itself and the speak? Please allow your Minister to speak, Your Prime Minister can reply tomorrow. After that we Minister is the right person to speak. may have voting ...(Interruptions) (Interruptions) [Englrsh] SHRl PRAMOD MAHAJAN : We have got still two hours' time. Naturally, it will be from 11 A.M. to Do not believe in tomorrow 1 P.M. and at 2 o'clock the Prime Minister will reply. MR. SPEAKER : You sit down please. Allow your Immediately it can be followed by voting Minister to reply. ...(Interruptions) (Interruptions) SHRl SOMNATH CHATTERJEE : Mr. Speaker, Sir, you have allowed seven hours time ...(Interruptions) [Tra nsla t~on] SHRl SONTOSH MOHAN DEV :Tomorrow United SHRl RAM VlLAS PASWAN : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I Front and the Congress Members wit! not speak. We would like to submit you to kindly call all the members will not put up any speaker. Let them put speakers, who want to speak or to whom you want to give if they want ...(Interruptions) chance to speak today itself. Tomorrow we may SHRl SOMNATH CHATTERJEE : Sir, you have have reply of the hon. Pr~meMinister. Then voting allotted seven hours for the debate. Still a time of can take place after that ...(Interruptions) If you leave one hour and fifteen mlnutes is left for the debate it lor discussions tomorrow, it would be a lengthy to conclude. ..(Interruptions) process ...(Interruptions). If you leave it for discussions tomorrow. ~t would be a lengthy process SHRl PRAMOD MAHAJAN : Two hours' time is ...(Interruptrons). The day after tomorrow will be a left ...(Interruptions) hol~dayon account of Muharrum .(Interruptions). I MR. SPEAKER : No. A time .of one hour and have already said In the begmning that the Intention forty-five minutes is left ot this government is not clear and they want to (Interruptions) extend the time for discussion SHRl SOMNATH CHATTERJEE : It takes up10 [English] 12 15 p m. tomorrow, and the voting should start at 12.30 p.m. tomorrow ... (Interruptions) SHRl PRAMOD MAHAJAN We are not In favour of extend~ngt~me lust now The Pr~meM~n~ster will MR. SPEAKER : Yes, a time of one hour and not be ava~lable In the House Today 1s the death forty-five minutes is left, roughly. annwersary of Pand~tJawaharlal Nehru There IS (Interruptions) programme at 7 o clock In Teen Murt~Bhawan to be MR. SPEAKER . It comes up to 12.45 p.m attended by Pres~dent V~ce-Pres~dentetc So, we are not In favour of extendmg any t~meTomorrow tomorrow So, the debate, according to the time allotted should be concluded by 12.45 p.m. tomorrow. you can dec~deany time you want llnterrupt~ons) (Interruptions) MR SPEAKER : But, can we go up to 6.45 P.M. today? MR. SPEAKER : Since we want to accommodate a few more hon. Members, I will keep the tentative (lnterruptions) time tor voting as 1.30 p.m. tomorrow. SHRl SONTOSH MOHAN DEV : You may extend (Interruptions) the tlrne upto tomorrow. But the voting time must be Lxed Irrespective of the number of speakers MR. SPEAKER : The House stands adjourned to speaking. The voting time may klndly be fixed. UP to meet again tomorrow, the 28th May, 1996 at 11 a.m. that tlme whoever has spoken has spoken. Then, the 18.10 hrs. Prune Mlnlster has to reply. He will reply. But kindly fix up tlme for votlng ...(Interruptrons). The Lok Sabha then adjourned till Eleven of the MR SPEAKER : Can we sk~plunch tomorrow? Clock on Tuesday, May 28, 1996/Jyaistha 7, 1918 (Saka). (Interruptions)