JUSTICE COMMITTEE Tuesday 4 June 2013 Session 4 © Parliamentary copyright. Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body Information on the Scottish Parliament’s copyright policy can be found on the website - www.scottish.parliament.uk or by contacting Public Information on 0131 348 5000 Tuesday 4 June 2013 CONTENTS Col. DECISION ON TAKING BUSINESS IN PRIVATE ................................................................................................. 2903 SUBORDINATE LEGISLATION......................................................................................................................... 2904 Children’s Legal Assistance (Scotland) Regulations 2013 (Draft) ......................................................... 2904 SCOTTISH COURT SERVICE .......................................................................................................................... 2906 PETITIONS ................................................................................................................................................... 2961 Justice for Megrahi (PE1370) ................................................................................................................. 2961 Administrative Justice (PE1449) ............................................................................................................. 2964 JUSTICE COMMITTEE 18th Meeting 2013, Session 4 CONVENER *Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) DEPUTY CONVENER Jenny Marra (North East Scotland) (Lab) COMMITTEE MEMBERS *Roderick Campbell (North East Fife) (SNP) *John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Ind) *Colin Keir (Edinburgh Western) (SNP) *Alison McInnes (North East Scotland) (LD) David McLetchie (Lothian) (Con) *Graeme Pearson (South Scotland) (Lab) *Sandra White (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) *attended THE FOLLOWING ALSO PARTICIPATED: Chic Brodie (South Scotland) (SNP) Nigel Don (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP) Rt Hon Lord Gill (Lord President of the Court of Session) Iain Gray (East Lothian) (Lab) John Lamont (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) (Committee Substitute) Kenny MacAskill (Cabinet Secretary for Justice) Lewis Macdonald (North East Scotland) (Lab) Margaret McDougall (West Scotland) (Lab) (Committee Substitute) Eric McQueen (Scottish Court Service) Cameron Stewart (Scottish Government) CLERK TO THE COMMITTEE Irene Fleming LOCATION Committee Room 2 2903 4 JUNE 2013 2904 Scottish Parliament Subordinate Legislation Justice Committee Children’s Legal Assistance (Scotland) Regulations 2013 (Draft) Tuesday 4 June 2013 [The Convener opened the meeting at 09:45] 09:46 The Convener: The next item is an evidence- Decision on Taking Business in taking session with the Cabinet Secretary for Private Justice on an affirmative instrument. I welcome to the meeting the cabinet secretary and Scottish Government officials Kit Wyeth, head of the The Convener (Christine Grahame): Good children’s hearings team, and Catriona morning and welcome to the Justice Committee’s MacKenzie, legal aid policy manager. I see that 18th meeting in 2013. I ask everyone to we are also joined by Felicity Cullen, but I do not completely switch off mobile phones and other know who she is. [Interruption.] The clerk has just electronic devices as they interfere with the told me that you are a legal adviser, Ms Cullen. broadcasting system even when switched to silent. You are not mentioned in my notes, but you are Apologies have been received from David welcome anyway. McLetchie and Jenny Marra, and John Lamont and Margaret McDougall are attending as I invite the cabinet secretary to make an substitutes. I also welcome to the committee Lewis opening statement on the draft regulations. Macdonald and Chic Brodie; others might well join The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Kenny us during the course of the evidence taking. MacAskill): Thank you, convener. I am pleased to [Interruption.] I beg your pardon—I meant Iain be here to discuss the draft regulations, which Gray, not Lewis Macdonald. That was a bad start. make provision for state-funded legal Item 1 is a decision on taking business in representation in children’s hearings and their private. Does the committee agree to take in associated proceedings, detail how children’s legal private item 6, which is further consideration of our aid will operate and make assistance by way of approach to stage 1 scrutiny of the Tribunals representation available to certain persons in (Scotland) Bill? It is proposed that we take the certain circumstances. item in private, as we will be discussing possible The regulations form part of the implementation witnesses. of the Children’s Hearings (Scotland) Act 2011. Members indicated agreement. The act, which is due to go live on 24 June, strengthens and modernises the children’s hearings system, and the changes that it introduces are focused on improving outcomes for children and young people and ensuring that the system is more child and young person-friendly and that it is nationally consistent but locally delivered. As part of those changes, we are replacing the current interim arrangements, which have been in place since 2002, for providing legal support to children and parents in hearings. The regulations will provide a permanent and sustainable national scheme, administered by the Scottish Legal Aid Board, for the provision of state-funded legal representation in children’s hearings. Restrictions will continue to apply to the granting of such legal representation other than in urgent and emergency situations, and it will need to be apparent that a child or parent needs that support to participate effectively in the children’s hearing. That is a very brief overview of the regulations and their context, and I am happy to answer any questions. 2905 4 JUNE 2013 2906 The Convener: Members do not seem to have 09:50 any questions, so we will move to item 3, which is On resuming— the formal debate on motion S4M-06775, on approval of the draft regulations. Motion moved, Scottish Court Service That the Justice Committee recommends that the Children’s Legal Assistance (Scotland) Regulations 2013 The Convener: Now that we are all sitting [draft] be approved.—[Kenny MacAskill.] comfortably, I shall begin. Motion agreed to. I thank the Cabinet Secretary for Justice for staying for item 4, which is an evidence session on The Convener: The cabinet secretary will be the Scottish Court Service’s report “Shaping staying on for the next item, but I thank the Scotland’s Court Services”. I welcome the cabinet officials for attending. secretary’s officials from the Scottish Government: I suspend the meeting for a minute for a Robert Sandeman, who is from the civil law and changeover. Members should not leave their legal system division; Cameron Stewart, the courts chairs. reform bill team leader; and Nicholas Duffy, from legal services. 09:49 The cabinet secretary will make a short opening Meeting suspended. statement on the proposed court restructuring. Kenny MacAskill: I welcome the opportunity to speak about the Scottish Court Service’s recommendations on a future court service. It may be helpful to the committee if I explain the constitutional position in relation to the proposals. The Scottish Court Service is an independent body corporate, established under the Judiciary and Courts (Scotland) Act 2008. Its board is chaired by the Lord President of the Court of Session. The effect of the 2008 act, which was passed unanimously by Parliament, is that the Scottish Court Service is answerable to the Lord President rather than Scottish ministers. The working of the courts is therefore an operational matter for the Scottish Court Service and, of course, the Lord President, who has a statutory responsibility for the efficient disposal of business in Scotland’s courts. The SCS has proposed the closure of certain sheriff and justice of the peace courts. However, the legislation provides that it is for Scottish ministers to lay before Parliament the orders implementing the proposals. The orders have been laid, and I understand that the committee will consider them at its meeting next week. Clearly, ministers had to satisfy themselves that the policy implemented by the orders is justified in the circumstances. Ministers must consider the bigger picture, looking across all the Government’s portfolios. We deliberated carefully on the options that were presented, particularly in view of the representations that have been made about particular courts, and the Cabinet has given its consent to the proposals. We think that the proposals strike the correct balance in the current economic climate. We are satisfied that the proposals measure up to the principles for provision of access to justice that were developed in discussion with the judiciary—specifically, that 2907 4 JUNE 2013 2908 most court users should be able to travel to their The Convener: Thank you very much, cabinet local court by public transport so as to arrive at the secretary. I welcome to the committee Nigel Don start of the case in which they are concerned, and and for the second time—I will tell him why later—I return home by public transport the same day. welcome Lewis Macdonald. The Scottish Court Service is not immune from I will call John Finnie first, and then John the financial pressures caused by the severe cuts Lamont, Graeme Pearson—I ask members to imposed by the Westminster Government, which indicate if they want on the list—Iain Gray, Sandra affect all walks of life. South of the border, 93 of White, Alison McInnes, Chic