UNCLASSIFIED
SummarizedDetainee Statement
Tribunal President Abdur Rahman, youmay now present any evidence you haveto the Tribunal and you havetheassistanceof yourPersonalRepresentativeindoing so . Do you wish to presentcvidence to the Tribunal?
Detainee: Yes, I do. I want the assistance of my Representative. I will also say something.
Tribunal President All right. Will this statement be written or oral?
Detainee : I can make an oral statement .
Personal Representative: The Detainee would like for me to read a written statement. will present it to the Tribunal Then the Detainee will make an oral presentation and answer questions afterwards.
Tribunal President: Would you like to make your statement under a Muslim oath ?
Detainee: Yes.
TribunalPresident: Recorderwillyou administer the
The Detaiacewas usingthe Muslimoath.
In the followingsection ofthe summarizedtranscript, the PersonalRepresentative readsthe detainee's written statement attached as Exhibit - B ) to the Tribunal. statementaddresseseach pointon the UnclassifiedSummary of Evidencein order. Becausethe statementdoes notalways indicatethe text ofthe point being addressed, the pointsfromthe UnclassifiedSummaryofEvidenceare provided below in italicsto putthe detainee'sstatement intocontext. Any commentsmadeby the detainee or others whilethePersonalRepresentativereadsthe statement are summarized, as well.
Tribunal President: Personal Representative, wouldyou present the information.
Personal Representative: Abdur Rahmandictatedthe following written on 13 September in response to his Uniclassified Summary of Evidence dated 4 September 2004
Tribunal Member: May I just ask one quick question ? Are you going to offer the written statement as evidence to us the Tribunal) afterwards?
PersonalRepresentative: Yes, Sir.
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Tribunal Member: Okay. Itjust determines how much notes I will take. Thank you.
Personal Representative: I will begin again Detainee Sayid Abdur Rahman dictated the following written statement on 13 September in response to his Unclassified Summary of Evidence dated 4 September 2004.
3.a. The detainee is a member ofthe Taliban .
1. The detaineewas bominPishin .
Personal Representative: In response to ( ) theunclassified summary , this is true. I was in Pishin, Pakistan .
Detainee: Yes.
2. The detainee joined Taliban shortly after the Taliban of Kabul Afghanistan in 1992.
Personal Representative: In response to ( A2) of the unclassified summary , this is not true. I was never a member of the Taliban and I have never been to Kabul. Afghanistan . I have never worked with the Taliban .
Detainee: Correct
3. The detainee has been identifiedas holdinga high-rankingposition in the Talibanasamilitary judge.
Personal Representative: Inresponse ( ) oftheunclassifiedsummary, this is not true. Since my incarceration, I have been accused ofholdingthree different positions with the Taliban. InitiallyI was accusedofbeing DeputyForeign Ministerin Kandahar by an interrogatorwho spoke Pashtu,
Detainec: And I was blindfolded.
PersonalRepresentative: This is whenthe Americans werethere. This turnedoutto be false. One monthlater, I was accusedof a TalibanSecurity guardina prison in Kandahar. A female translatoraccusedme ofworkingina prisonandtoldmemyname was Bacha a securityguard inthis prisoninKandahar.
Detainec: Correct.
Personal Representative was false as well. I never even heard ofthe name Bacha.
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I have never heard ofthat name and that was my first time hearing of such accusation.
PersonalRepresentative: Now I am accused of a militaryjudge for the Taliban. I have no why someone would make this accusation, as it is not true. I can only speculate that was somcone from a rivalvillage close to myvillage in Pakistan.
Detainee: Correct.
PersonalRepresentative: However, I havenoproofbecause I am here atGTMO.
Detainee: Correct.
4.Inhisposition with the Taliban, the detainee tortured , maimed, and murdered Afghani nationals who were being held in jails.
Personal Representative: In response to (A4) of the unclassified summary this is totally false. The only time I liave ever been in Afghanistan was for two days to attend a funeral. A neighbor in my village of Pishin had a relative inAfghanistan who died.
Detaince: Correct.
Personal Representative: I went with him to Afghanistan to attend the funeral service. Detainee Correct.
Personal Representative: I was only there for two days and then rcturned home. How couldI do all these things intwo days? Itis simply not possible. During the Taliban's reign I never even talked to them .
Detainee: I never talkedor evendealt with them [ Taliban on anybasis.
Personal Representative I never had any contacts with the Taliban at all. The two days I was in Afghanistan to attend the funeral were the only two days I spent in Afghanistan in my entire life.
Detainee: Correct .
PersonalRepresentative: ManyAfghanis livedinPakistanand traveledback and forth. So rivalriesor differences mighthave occurredon bothsides ofthe border. I was never a judge inPakistanor Afghanistan, nor was I ever a DeputyForeignMinisterin either ofthese two countries. Nor was I ever a security guard ineitherofthese two countries.
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Detainee: Yes. I nevereven heldthose positions.
Personal Representative: I am only a chicken farmer inPakistan. I would also occasionally some extra money by helping out at the local school. I would teach children how to pray and how to perform absolution. I would them right from wrong.
Detainee: Correct.
Personal Representative: However, my main income and occupation was as a chicken farmer
Detaince Correct.
5. Pakistaniauthorities arrestedthe detainee inFall 2001.
Personal Representative: In response to ( A5 ) of the unclassified summary , no , it was the end of January 2002 .
Detainec . It was towards the end of January I don't remember, it was in January
Tribunal President: January ofwhat year?
Detainee: 2002
PersonalRepresentative: I was inmyhome. I didn't liveon the chicken farm , I worked on one .
Detainee: Correct.
PersonalRepresentative: The Pakistaniauthoritiesknockedon my doorand toldmethat they wantedto searchmy house.
Detainee: .
PersonalRepresentative: I asked themwhythey wanted to searchmy house and I was told they were lookingfor ancient artifacts thatwere looted.
Delainee Correct
PersonalRepresentative: I didnot know what they were talking about and hadnothing to hide. They did not find any artifacts, as I did not have any to find.
Detainec: I had nothing to hide. I was a poor person. What was I going to hide?
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Personal Representative: They did not find any artifacts, as I did not have any to find.
Detainee: In my houso I had nothing. We lived very simply. There were no artifacts anything.
Personal Representative: However, the Pakistani authorities told me that I hadto go with them to the police station .
Detainee: Correct.
Personal Representative: I asked them why ? They searched my house and found nothing.
Detainee: I said why did they want to take me ? told me they needed meto talk to the leader. So they wanted to have a talk .
Personal Represcntative: I was lold I had to go. At police station they questioned me more about the ancient artifacts.
Detainee: They were asking me where were the artifacts ? They had heard reports.
PersonalRepresentative: I toldthem you searched my house and you found nothing
Detainee: I told already searched house and they could searchagain anywhere. Find the person who was spreadingthose rumors about me. I am not guiltyof anything
PersonalRepresentative The policethen toldmeeventhough they didnotfind any artifacts, ifI did not give themmoney, a bribe, I was gone.
Detainee: Correct. They wanteda bribe. Personal Representative: I told them that Ididn't have any moneyto give, buteven ifI did, I was not going to give itto them . Detaince: Correct. I told them even ifI had any money I was not going to give it them . What had I done ? Personal Representative: I asked "What have I done that I need to pay you for ?" Dctainee: Correct. I refused to them money. There were no charges that I should pay those guys money. Personal Representative: They said itjust did notmatter and we just want money.
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Detainee: They said wejust want the money We are not playingany games here.
PersonalRepresentative: Since I hadrefusedto pay the bribe, we never even discussed the amount ofmoney they wanted
Detainee I did not knowwhat amountthey wanted because I didnotallowthem to get to thatpoint
PersonalRepresentative: Theytold me I'dsituntilI paidthem . They took me to a cell
Detainee: .
PersonalRepresentative: They keptme ina cellfor a few hours and then blindfoldedme andput me ina car with someoneelse and drove us to another location.
Detaince: Correct
Personal Representative : I was kept in Pakistani jail for thirty - six days.
Detainee: Correct
Personal Representative: Duringthis time, a Pakistanisoldier asked me if was sonieone else in my village withthe same name as I.
Detainee They asked me ifsomebody else's name was my name. I said there could be but I don't even know There wcre a lot ofpeople. Personal Representalive: I told them there could be,but I did not know for sure . [Both the Detainee and the Translator were speaking simultaneously .] Tribunal President: What did the Detainee say ? Translator: The Detainee repcated the same answer . The Detainee stated he did not know . There could be but I did not know That was for them to decide Personal Representative : This soldier then told me they were looking for else and they had found him .
Translator: I there mightbe acorrection.
Detaince: They were lookingfor else and they found me now . Something, I can'tremember correctly meaning they were lookingfor else; but now they had me. So they goingto throw to make the report look right. Or they were going to getmeusing the other man's name
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Personal Representative: Okay, so the sentence should read the soldier then told me they were looking for someone else; but had found him ; him meaning the Detainee ?
Translator: Correct. Yes.
Tribunal President: Is that a correctionthat needs to be made in the statement?
PersonalRepresentative: Yes, . I will abovethe wordhim " referringto the Detainee
Detainee: They said even though I not theright person they were looking for, it did not matter. They had me.
Tribunal President: PersonalRepresentative, would you rcadthat statement to the Detaince again to make sure thatis exactly what the Detaineewants to say?
PersonalRepresentative: Yes, . The soldierthen told me that they were looking for some one else, andthey hadfound him , rcferringto the Detainec.
Detainee: I want to re-iterate pointabout how they askedme about ifthere was anotlierpersonwithsamenameas I. I told there couldbe Butthey saidnowthey hadme. So that statementis correct.
Tribunal President: So that statement is correct ?
Translator: The Detainee repeated the same statement.
Personal Representative: Translator , please explain to the Detainee the clarification of the statement that was read was implied they found another person with the same name as the Detainee, but I made the clarification to theTribunal that the authorities were looking for but the Detainee was found and incustody, the authorities decided to keep him
Detainee: Yes, that is correct.
Personal Representative: That was all he said to me. After thirty-six days in the Pakistani jail, they came and got me one night tied my hands behind my back put a hood over my face and putme into a car.
Detaince: Correct.
Personal Representative Although , I could not see anything, there were other prisoners in this car. One was speaking Pashtu and several others were speaking Urdu.
Correct.
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Personal Representative: When the car stopped I could hear airplanes. They took me from the car and put me onto an aircralt. There were Americans on this aircraft.
Detainee: Correct. Then all of sudden the language changed from Pashtu I hearing English
PersonalRepresentative: could not see anything because I was blindfolded, but they were speaking English.
Correct.
PersonalRepresentative: When we landedthey asked for my nameand I toldthem Abdur Rahman.
Detainec . Abdur Rahman
Personal Representative: The translator who was speaking Pashtu asked me what languages I spoke.
Detainec
Personal Representative : I answered I spoke Pashtu.
Detainee: Correct.
Personal Representative: I was then told that I was not Abdur Rahman ; I was Abdur Zahid Rahman.
Detainee: Correct. I was told my name was not Abdur Rahman Sayed , but my name was Abdur Rahman Zahid .
Personal Representative : That was not correct, my name is Abdur Sayed Rahman . The difference in the two spellings: Zahid is Z A - H -I- D, and Sayed is S - A - Y - - D Detainee: Correct.
PersonalRepresentative: Abdur Zahid Rahman was the Deputy ForeignMinister of the Taliban
Detainee: Correct. That is what I was told. I was told that I was Abdur Rahman Zahid and that I was the Deputy Foreign Minister for the Taliban .
Porsonal Representative: I was taken to this camp and they began interrogate me.
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Detainee: Correct. Then an hour later they began to interrogate me. Personal Represcntative: An American later told me I was wrongfully taken and that in a couple of days I would be free.
Detainee: I was told I was very much oppressed and they had the wrong person and I would be released right away . Personal Representative: I never saw this American again and I am still here. Detainee: Correct. And I never saw that person again .
Personal Representative: Since then, I have also been accused ofbeing a security guard , which is not true. Detainee : Right after the first accusation that I a Deputy Foreign Minister, I was told a month later I was not a Foreign Minister, but I was a security guard for the jail. My name was Bacha. I said ifthe prison is nearby, can you check up on that and see the evidence for it. They never said anything else about it and it was left at that. Personal Representative: Now I have this new accusation I am a military judge of the Taliban .
Detaince: I have never held a judge's post and I never worked as such Someone made up all these accusations and lies, but what can I do about it?
Personal Representative: This is simply not . I am innocent.
Detainee : From the first, I have been accused wrongly . I am a . I did swear by God that I would tell you the truth I hope you take that into account, that I am telling the truth . I have been very oppressed . Please take all my words into account.
Personal Representative: that concludes the Detainee's statement
Personal Representative presents the Detainee's written statement marked as Exhibit D - B the Tribunal for evidence .
Tribunal President: Do you mind if we ask you some questions ?
Detainee: Yes. That isfine
The Personal Representative introduces two personal letters from the Detainee's brothers and sons inPakistanto the Tribunal. The exhibits are marked D - C and D - D .
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Personal Representative: The letters are from the Detainee's family, his brother and his sons. The first letter reads as follows: " From censored) to ( censored greetings. We are, thank God, doing good . We want your happiness from God . Your school is doing well. Everyone in the family is doing chicken farm is there, and we check on your school. We are praying for you. Wish you luck. "
.
PersonalRepresentativepresents the Exhibit“ D - C to the Tribunalfor evidence.
Personal Representative: These exhibits are being presentedto show that the Detainee was indeeda chicken farmer and he did teach atthe school.
PersonalRepresentative: The secondletter readsas follows: " From your brothers Abdul HaqAgha Abdul Salam Agha and the whole family and friends to our brother. Our brother, athome everythingis fine. From youngtoold thank Godeveryone is . Everyoneelse is doinggood. We want yourhappiness from God. want you happinessfromGodlike Abrahamwhen he was inthe middleofthe fire and God protectedhim . We tried to releaseyou butwe haven'tfound any response. We will try, Godwilling, andwe hopeyou willbe released. Yourchicken farm is there (Censored) is also sendinghis greetings. Your letter you sent to Quetta, you wrote that you wrote us a of letters andyouhaven't sent responses. We'verepliedto your letters. I don't knowwhy it hasn'tgottenthere. We are praying foryouandwe will pray." The letter is dated26 September 2002."
Detainee: Correct
PersonalRepresentativepresentsthe Exhibits " to the Tribunal for evidence.
TribunalPresident: Personal Representative, do you have any questions for the ?
PersonalRepresentative: . , I have a couple.
Personal Representative: The only tine ever been to Afghanistan was only the two days you the funeral ?
Detainee: Yes. That was two days for a funeral service.
Personal Representative: Was this during or after the Taliban reign ? Detainee: It was two years prior to my capture.
Personal Representative: Before the Taliban came to power, did you ever go to Afghanistan ?
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Detaincc Even when I was there for two days, I did not do anything wrong. I never even talked. I just walked onthe streets and came back home.
PersonalRepresentative: So from the time you were a tiny baby until now , you've only been inAfghanistan for two days ?
Detainee: Yes,just those two days.
PersonalRepresentative: Have you ever receivedanymilitarytraining?
Detainee an uneducated person . I never got any training
Personal Representative: No training, never ever at anytime ? Not before the Taliban , after the Taliban, not at all?
Detainec have noteven seen a weapon for fifteen years, ifyou believe it or not. I am an uneducated person. I have never beento any military training.
Personal Representative: Never ever in your life ?
Detainee: No,
Tribunal President Recorder do youhaveany questionsforthe
Recorder: Yes, I do.
Detainee: Okay.
Recorder: Did youever inyour lifejoin the Talibanor work them any small way ?
Detainee: I swearfrom the smallestdealings I haveneverdealt withthe Taliban or contactedthem .
Recorder: Were you ever ajudge or an important that would pass judgment on others ?
Detaince : have to laugh . I am an uneducated man. You are giving me this high position of being a military judge . I don't even have that ofeducation to be such. I can't even picture that
Recorder: So the answer is no?
Detainee: I was ajudge, a ForeignMinister or a security guard. Iswear upon .
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Recorder: Did you ever do the act direct others to torture ?
Detainee I have never even ordered my brother in my house. How can I even order others
TribunalPresident: Excuseme, Translator,but I did not catch everythingyou were translating. You and the Detainecwere talkingat the same time.
Translator: What the Detainee was trying to say was that he had never orderedhis brother at home to do things. How can he order others. And also the Detaineehas never taken part inthat accusation.
TribunalPresident: Pleasetranslate youhave said back to the Detainec.
Detaince That is correct. [ Inresponseto the Translator's translation.
Recorder: Howmany years were you a chicken farmer ?
Detainee: I don't the exact dates.
Recorder: Can you speak in shorter phrases.
Detainee: I remember the range of time prior to my capture . I remember that have been on that fifteen years. I am an uneducated person and I can't remember. I did not keep a timetable ofthe exact dates, so it could be anywhere from twelve to fifteen years I have been on that farm
Recorder: Earlierinthat statement, yousaidyou work on the farm . You don't own ? Is that correct?
Detainee: Yes, that is my farm . I have a share of the land. I have from five hundred to one thousand chickens. sell the eggs andthe chickens That is how I make my living.
Recorder: What did you do before becoming a chicken farmer years ago? Detainee: 1didnot work. I was at home. My brothers worked. It was like a family thing Recorder: That concludes myquestions. Tribunal President: Do any Tribunal Members have any questions for the Detainee? Tribunal Members: Yes, ma'am . How oldare you ?
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We don't keep records of when we are . I cannot give you an exact date but I can give you an approximate guess . I am in my late thirties , close to forty years old. They asked me this in Kandahar. I told them I do not know my exaci age. No records are kept in Afghanistan and Pakistan .
Tribunal President: Please try very hard to translate exactly what the Detainee says . We do not want to miss anything the Detainee wants to present to us. And please tell the Detainee what I just said . ( Speaking to the Translator )
Translator : Ijust told Detaince and I also asked the Detainee to shorten his answers so can get the words out to you.
Tribunal President: Thank you
Tribunal Member: When you were arrested, were you by yourself?
Detainee: I was alone athome.
Tribunal Member: We are asking these questions because we have not secn the cvidence.
Detaince: Okay
Tribunal : Whenyou were arrested, you had no weapons aroundyou anywhere.
Detainee:
Tribunal Member: When you went to Afghanistan the funeral, you doing anything else while ?
Detainee: The two days I was in Afghanistan, I spent thenight. The morning we had the funeral service. We spent a second night. Thenwe the next day
Tribunal Member: How did you get to Afghanistan ?
Detainee: a car.
TribunalMember: Was anhour's drive or aday -longdrive?
Detainee: We Pakistanin the morning. We gotto Afghanistan by the noonprayers. There were different villages in outskirts. Dependedon where the servicewas being held.
Tribunal Member: Inresponseto one ofthe questionsby the PersonalRepresentative you said you hadnot seen a weaponinabout fifteen .
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Detainee: That iscorrect.
Tribunal Member: Fifteen years ago when you did see the weapon, why did you see the weapon ?
Detainec: During the Jihad times when the Afghans were fighting the Soviets, all of the Mujahideen were there and weapons were on the streets in the Pashtu areas.
Tribunal Member: I know you said you have never been a part ofor supported the Taliban
Detainee: Yes, that is correct.
TribunalMember: Your ownactions or actionsyou mighthavedirectedof others, you everbeena part ofor supported Qaida?
Detainee: WhenI was broughthere to Cuba, I neverheardofthe term Al Qaida. I did notknowifthey were someanimalsorsomekind ofcreatures. I did not knowwhat the meaningwas. Thenthey explainedto me what Al Qaida meant.
Tribunal Member: After the term Al Qaida was explained to you, you think you were with or supported Al Qaida ? Detainee : No, because I did not even know their name or the details of who they were No, never
Tribunal Member : Can you tell me when the specifically ? Detainee : I don't know exact date They asked me the same question in Kandahar. don't know what date it was, but it was obviously before I was captured . Tribunal : Was it before the September 11 inthe United States ? Detainee: It was two years prior to September when the Americans were attacked.
TribunalMember: Who was the funeralfor ?
Detainee: A person I knew from my village, itwas one ofhis relatives that died in Afghanistan
Tribunal Member: What was his ?
Detainee: Whichperson?
Tribunal Member: The person that died ?
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Detaince : I am trying to remember . It was Muhammad Yusef Tribunal Member : in Afghanistan was the funeral ? Detainee: Kandahar province. the city, there is a village called Zala Kahn. It is about a half hour drive from the city of Kandahar, but inthe province of Kandahar Tribunal Member Since you have been captured and brought here to Cuba, have you always told this same story ? Detainec This is my story , but more details could have been said in the interrogation I was not asked about the funeral that you just asked about, or the guy's name or where the village . I was only asked ifI went to a Tribunal Member : In your interrogations, huve you always said that you have been to Afghanistan for only two days in your life ?
Detainee: Yes. And in the Taliban's time, only two days.
Tribunal Member; But before the Taliban's time, you were in Afghanistan ?
: During the Soviet war , I might have out the refugees in the camp or something.
Tribunal Member: In Afghanistan ? Detainee: On the border. I was at a camp in Pakistan where all the Afghans were . So if I have the border, it is the occasion . We have relatives and they just cross back and forth. But that was during that time. Tribunal Member: How far from the Pakistan / Afghanistan border is your hometown ?
Detainee: The townI am from ? Tribunal Member: Yes Detainee: It is three or four hours to Chaman, which is a border town,
Tribunal Member: Can you estimate how many kilometers ?
Detainee : I don't even know about the hours correctly . I have no idea about the kilometers
TribunalMember: When you saythreeor fourhours, isthat car ?
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Detainee Some cars go fast, some cars slow , some very slow and then they go five hours.
Tribunal to the PersonalRepresentative: OnExhibitD - C , is there a date on this letter?
Personal Representative: No.
Translator: No, there is no date, but it is received in Kandahar in Afghanistan .
The Personal Representative and the Translator inspect Exhibit D-C, and both coaclude there was no date annotated on the letter .
Tribunal Member: So there is no date that we can see on the letter ?
Translator: No Sir. I couldnot findit. ActuallyI triedlookingfor it. The onlythingI couldsee was referringto the Detainee'simprisonmentinKandahar.
TribunalPresident: Onyourstatement, yousaidyou were questionedbythe policeand a soldier.
Detainee : I was not interrogated. I went to the police station. Two of the officers were speaking Urdu and one officer was speaking Pashtu. The Pashtu officer told me to give him money, I was going to be taken away . He also told me whatever treasure I was hiding, I needed to give it him . I told the officer to check my house because there was nothing
Tribunal President: Your statement said a soldier you they looking someone else and they had found you
Detainee The thing remember is the people worked for the Government andthey spoke Pashtu
TribunalPresident: So you don't know for sure if they were policeor soldiers?
Detainee: No. All I knew was these people were Governmentofficials and they were wearing uniforms. I don't know the details ofthe rank or anything.
Tribunal Member: Ifyou were blindfolded how could you know they were Government officials ?
Detainee: The officialwas undercoverincivilianclothing. Hewas a Government official. I was notblindfoldedat that time. That same personwouldalwayshelp whenI wantedto pray. That is I knewhe was a Governmentofficial.
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Tribunal President: Did the Governmentofficialask you for money or the police?
Detainee: Inthe policestation, I was toldby the policeofficerstogive them bribes. After that, no one mentionedanythingabout money. I was told charges would be madeagainst me.
TribunalPresident: Who askedyouabout the nameofthe other personin your village?
Detainec: All I know is the person was a Government official and that person was civilian clothing I do not know the rest.
Tribunal President: You also said a translator asked you about another man . Was that the Government official ?
Detainee: No. This person was speaking Pashtu. There was no translation .
Tribunal President: Did you know the people at the funeral ?
Detainee: The only reason I went was because my friend in Pakistan invited me. I did not know the other people in Kandahar.
Tribunal President Did you know ifany of the people at the fineral were Taliban ?
Detainee: A funeral service is usually three days. After that funeral service, I went to pay my respects of the service (sic ). I was notat the official service.
Tribunal President: You didnot attend the funeral ? Youjust went pay respects after the funeral ?
Detainee: That is correct. I paidmy respectsby visitingthem . Butthe officialceremony was over Tribunal President: Did you go to someone's house after the funeral to pay respects? Detainee: Yes,I went to the person's . Tribunal President: Were there other people there besides yourself andyour friend ? Detainee: No, just the people of the house and that was it. Tribunal President: Who were the people of the house ? Detainee was the father and the brothers ofthe person who died
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Tribunal President: Do you know ifthose people were members of the Taliban ?
Detainee: They wcre poor people, they never associated with the Taliban .
TribunalPresident: Do you knowthat for sure? Detainee: Yes . I am very sure about that. Tribunal President You said you heard someone speaking English on the plane ? They were talking like you.
TribunalPresident: How do you knowthey were Americans?
Detainee: WhenI landedinKandahar, I what languagethey were speaking. told were speakingthe languageyou are speakingto me.
TribunalPresident: Isthat the same plane you traveled from Kandaharto Cuba?
Detainee: I do not know because I was blindfolded. Tribunal President: Did you travel on more than one plane? from Pakistan to Kandahar. Tribunal President: On one plane?
Detainee: Yes. I don't know who was there because I was blindfolded .
TribunalPresident: Do you knowwhom youtraveledwith from Pakistan to Kandahar ?
Detainee: My eyes were blindfolded. I could not even see light. I saw lightwhen I got to Kandahar. Then I askedone of the people where was andthey told me Kandahar.
Tribunal President: Was there anyone on the plane from Pakistan to Kandahar speaking English ?
Detainee What heard sounded like a foreign language. That is all I knew and I asked what language that was.
Tribunal President: So it was the plane from Kandahar to Cuba you heard people speaking English ?
Detainee: I heard Englishwhen I was inKandahar.
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Tribunal President: On the plane or off the plane? Detainee: Just in the camp I heard English. Not in the airplane. What I hcard in the airplane the military personnel were speaking a foreign language. Tribunal President: Didyou hear another foreign language other than Englishonthe plane ? Detainee: I heard it was foreign tongue,but I did not understand what they were saying. Tribunal President: Was it English ? Detainee was the same thing as are speaking TribunalPresident: Who said you were Abdur RahmanZahid ?
Detainee: Once I departed the plane and they started asking me questions, I was asked if I was Rahman Zahid.
TribunalPresident: was that?
Detainee: I was in Kandahar at the international airport.
Tribunal President: Abdur Rahman , do you have any other evidence to present to this Tribunal ?
Detainee: Where can I get more proof I havebeen here for two years. Where am I going to get allthat information from ?
Tribunal President: I understand you have no more information you would like to present?
Delainee can I get information from ?
Tribunal President: Isthat a no?
Detainee: No I do not have anymore .
Tribunal President Personal Representativc do you have any other evidence or does the Detainee have any previously approved witnesses to present to the Tribunal ?
Personal Representative: No, I have no further evidence or witnesses, I do have a few more questions to clarify a point that was made earlier.
Tribunal President Okay
Enclosure(3) Page of UNCLASSIFIEDI 001740 UNCLASSIFIED//FOUO
Personal Representative: Earlier you had said you had not seen a weapon for fifteen years, not until the Jihad. Was this during the Soviet occupation ? Detainee: Yes, it was during the Soviet communist regime. PersonalRepresentative: You had indicated you did help on the border,but was it on the side ofthe border ? Detainee: During the Soviet time, the Kandaharprovince, I had in there. That is about it.
Personal Representative: type of helpyoudid it, was related
Detainee started speaking before the Personal Representative able to complete his question.
Detainee: No, it was just friends. There was not battles all the time. We had family and tribes on both sides.
PersonalRepresentative: DidyouparticipateinJihadand shootwith a weapon against the Soviets?
Detainee: No.
PersonalRepresentative: So you ncver were a combatant againstthe Jihad the Soviets ? Detainee: No I was just with friends. There were Pashtus on both of the border. There were not always battles. Familywould go across on both sides. Personal Representative: What did you do whenyou were helping? Detainee: I would see my family or travel with friends.
Personal Representative: But you were not a soldier ?
Detainec No. Never. The Pakistan/Afghanistan border has never . It's always been thc Pashtu people, the tribes. The tribes still keep our families inthem . It has always bcen the same people,
Personal Representative: Thank you . I have no further questions.
Tribunal President: Do any of the Tribunal Members have any final questions?
ISN Enclosure( 3) Page20 of21 UNCLASSIFIED // FOUO 001741 UNCLASSIFIED//FOUO
TribunalMember: Earlierthe PersonalRepresentativeaskedfrom whenyouwere a little up until now , youonly spent two days inAfghanistan
Detainee: Duringthe Taliban's time, I was in Afghanistan for days.
Tribunal Member: So when you werc younger was during the Soviet time ?
Detainee: The total amountoftime was days. I can't give you an approximatetime. Butduringthe Soviettime, that was when I crossedintoAfghanistanandthen duringthe Taliban'slime, justtwo days. That was it.
TribunalMember: Okay.
Detainec: Yesterday, I mentioned this and I am going to mention it again today. allegations during the time of the Taliban in the charges . I swore on that. I am hoping the Tribunal does not get confused
Tribunal Member: That is why we ask questions, because I was confused.
Detainee: Okay. I wantedto clarify.
Tribunal President unclassifiedevidence havingbeen provided to this Tribunal this concludes this Tribunal scssion.
AUTHENTICATION
I certify the material contained inthis transcript is a true and accurate summary of the testimony given during the proceedings.
Colonel, U.S. Tribunal President
ISN # Enclosure (3 ) 21 21 UNCLASSIFIED 001742 Sayed Abdur Rahman dictated the following written statement on 13 Sept 2004 in response to his unclassiliedsummary ofevidencedated4 Sept2004.
1. Inresponse to (Al) ofthe unclassified summary, this is true. I was born in Pishin, Pakistan
2. In to ( ) of unclassified , this is not true. I was never a member of
the Taliban and I have neverbeen to Kabul Afghanistan. I have neverworkedwith the
Taliban
3. Inresponse ( ) the unclassified , this is not true. Since my incarccration, I
havebeen accusedofholdingthreedifferentpositionswith the Taliban. InitiallyI was
accused of being a Deputy Foreign Minister in Kandahar by an interrogator who spoke Pastu
This was when the Americans were there . This turned out to be false. Onc month later, I
was accusedofbeing a TalibanSecurityguard in a prisoninKandahar. A femaletranslator
accused me ofworking in a prisonand told mc name was Bacha, a security guard in this
prisonin Kandahar. This was false as well as I'veneverovenhcardof name Bacha.
Now I am beingaccusedofbeinga militaryjudgeforthe have noidea why
someone would this accusation, it is not truc . I can only spcculate that it was
someone from rival village close my village in Pakistan. However, I have no proof
because I ain here at GTMO.
4. Inresponse10 (A4) ofthe unclassifiedsummary, this is totallyfalse The only I have
ever been in Afghanistan was for two days to attend a funeral. A neighbor inmy village of
001743
D - Pishin had a relative in Afghanistan who . I went with him to Afghanistan to attend the
funeralservice. I was only there fortwo days and then I returnedhome. Howcould I do all
this things in two days, it is simply not possible. During the Taliban's reign I never even
talked to them . I had any contacts with the Taliban at all. The two days I was in
Afghanistan to attend thc funeral were the only two days I spent in Afghanistan in my entire
lifc. ManyAfghanislivedinPakistanand they traveled back and forth. So rivalries or
differences might have occurred on both sides of the border, I was never a judge in Pakistan
or Afghanistan, nor was I ever Deputy ForeignMinisterineither ofthese two countries, nor
I ever a security guard inthese two countries. I am only a chicken inPakistan. I
also would occasionallyearn somc extra money by helpingout atthe local school would
teach childrenhowto pray andhow to performabsolution, I wouldteach them right from
However, my main income and occupation was as a chicken .
5. Inresponseto (A5) ofthe unclassifiedsummary, no it was the endofJan 2002. I was in
home. I didn't live on the chicken farm I worked on one . The Pakistani authorities knocked
on my door and told thatthey to search my house. I askedthem why they wanted
to scarch my house and I was told that they were looking for ancient artifacts that were
looled. I didn'tknowwhat they were talkingabout and hadnothingto hide. They didn't
ind any artifacts, as I didn't have any to find. However, the Pakistani authorities told me
that I had to go with them to the police station . I asked them why; they searched the house
and found nothing? I was told I had to go. At the police station they questioned me more
about ancient . I toldthem you searched my house and you found nothing. The
policc then told me that even though they didn't find any artifacts, ifI didn't give them
001744
2 of 4 inoney, a bribe, I was gone. I toldthem that I didn't have any money to give them , even ifI did I wasn't going give itto them . I asked, WhathaveI donc that I to pay you
for ? " They said it matter we just want the money , Since had refused to pay the
bribe, we never evendiscussedthe amountofmoneythey wanted. They toldmeI'dsituntil
I paid them and took me to a cell. in this cell for a few hours, and then blind
and put me in a car with someone else and drove us to another localion. I was
kept in a Pakistani jailfor 36 days. Duringthis time, a Pakistani soldier asked me ifthere
was somconc in my village with the same name as I told there could be, but I
didn'tknowforsure. Thissoldierthentoldme that they were lookingfor somconeelse and (refere to Detaince they had found him . That was allhe saidto me. After 36 days in the Pakistanijail,they
cameandgot me one nighi, handsbehindmyback, a hoodover my face andput
me a car. AlthoughI couldn't see anything, there wereotherprisonersinthis car. One
was speaking Pastu and several others were speaking Urdu. When the car stopped I could
hearairplanes. They took me from car andputmeinto an aircraft. Therewere
Americans in this aircraft. couldn't see anything because I was blindfolded, but they
were spcakingEnglish. we landedthey askedfor my namcandI toldthemAbdur
Rahman. Then a translator who was speakingPastu askedme languages I spoke. I
answeredthat I only spoke was then toldthat I was not AbdurRahman; was Abdur
ZahidRahman. That was not correct, my name is Abdur Sayed Rahman. Abdur Zahid
Rahmanwas the Deputy ForcignMinister of the Taliban. I was taken to this camp and they
beganto interrogateme. An Americanlater methat I was wrongfullytakenand that ina
couple ofdays I wouldbe free. I neversaw this Americanagain andI'mstill herc.
then also been accused ofbeinga Security Guard, which is not true. Now I have this
3 of4 001745 new accusation, that I am a militaryjudge of the Taliban. This is simply not true, I am innocent.
4 of 4 001746 This letter was translated by itreads:
From ( CENSORED ) (CENSORED), greetings. thank god, doing good
We want your happiness from God Your school is going well, everyone in the
family is doing well Your farm is there, and we check onyour school.
We are prayingfor you. Wish you luck, salam ,
Note : On thefront of the letter, from Sayed Abdul Salam - Sayed Abdul to Abdul Rehman
001747
EXHIBIT D - from blank to Blank greetings . we thank Goddoing good, wewant your happiness from . your is going well everyone the is there, andwe check on your school. are for luck salam praying you you
on the front, appear in letter they concealed Haq
1748 ( CENE 7. RED MESSAGE
Father's rame
-
Mother's
Nationality Date of birth Sex Placeofbirth district
Refugee camp Detention place
Street
, Districtor City Province House NO - ICRC
Full name
Father Grand- father's Mother's . Nationality Dateof birth FM village Placeofbirth.
Refugeecamp/ Detentionplace
Street
Village, District or City
HouseNo. Proviave /Country
10. INTERNATIONALCOMMITTEEOF THE REDCROSS
19, la Paix - 1202 Switzerland DA - PU / ACR 11. REPLY TO THE MESSAGE Familyand or newsonly
.
. . .
.
Date } Signature }
The my
7SO this letter, it reads:
your brothers Abdul Haq Agha, Abdul Salam Agha and the whole family and friends to our brother. Our brother at home everything is young to old thank God everyone is fine, Everyone else is doing wewant your happiness from God. We want your happiness from GodlikeAbraham when was inthe middle ofthe fire and Godprotectedhim. We tried to releaseyoubutwe haven't found any response, willtry God willing, and hopethat you willbe released and your chicken . CENSORED is also sending his greetings. Your letter you sent to Quetta, you wrote that you us a lotof letters andyouhaven't , to all ofyourletters. I don't know why it hasn't gotten there. We are praying for you and will pray
Sept 26, 2002
001751
EXHIBIT from your brothers Abdul Hag , Abdul the and to our brother Our brother everything is fine, from young to old thank evergent is Everyone else is doing good wewant your happiness from bood want your happiness from God like Abraham when he was in the middle of the fire protected him. tried to release you wehaven't foundany response, we try God willing , and we hope that you will released , your chicken forny is there Blank is also sending his greetings . your you sent to Quetta you wrote us alotof letters andyou responses, replied all of your letters , I don't know why gotten there. are praying for you and we willwill pray
Sept262002
1752 7. RED CROSS MESSAGE JIJEHA :
ICRC No.
Full
name name
Mother'sname Nationality KAD US BYCLEAREUT Date birth Sex village province Place of birth VAN 02 Refugeecamp/ place
Street Village, District or City Province Hous
. Abdul Grand . Mother's name Nationality . ... Date Sex
district country Place ofbirth
Refugee camp/
, DistrictorCity }
Province/ Country
INTERNATIONAL COMMITTEE THE REDCROSS 19, av de - 1202 Geneva, Switzerland MCR/ EN DA PU/ 11. REPLYTO THE MESSAGE Family and or private news only
Signature
is my
| UNCLASSIFIEDIFOUO
Summarized Sworn Detainee Statement
The Tribunal President readthe hearing instructions to the detainee The detainee confirmed that understood theprocess and had no questions.
Detainec only questionI haveis that I have been to a tribunal andyou were the president at that time and the other two memberswere different and this personhere recorder I don't knowifit was him orsomebodyelse andmy P / R is differentat that time. You told mc inthe last tribunalthat I wouldbe notifiedwithintwo about the decisionandit has beenthree months. have beenwaiting for the decision come, and now they ask to to a tribunal againand do the whole thingall over. So the only questionis: why did theymake mecome a secondtime and I did notknow decisionfrom the first ?
Tribunal President: Ifwe you that it was going to take two weeks for you to receive a decision that was not correct.
Detainee: I askedyouthatquestion- shouldI knowaboutthe decision? - andyou told that itshouldtake weeksto get decisionand meknowwhathappened. Thoscpeoplewere nothere, andI thinkthis guy was here. I knowif he remembers. I reniember you and you gave methe answerbecausethe linguist told methat she saidtwo andthe last time whenthe tribunaltook the oathI was prettysatisficdthat they will lookat allthe evidenceandmakc the decision. Butafter monthsI didnothearanythingaboutwhathappenandnowI here. have a problemto comeback, butthethingis was waitingand I don'tknowhowlong this processwilltake this .
Tribunal President: This tribunal does not have any control over how long it takes for you to be notified ; that is out of our hands. We will consider the information that you give to us today and additional information that has been given to us by the and then will proceed with this new tribunal. This new tribunal has not any of that was provided to the old tribunal, they have to look at all of the evidence that is being presented .
Detainee: They shouldnot told methat I know the decisionina amountoftime. They shouldhave saidjust wait and we will letyou know, we will bring you backtothe tribunal, we willthen notifyyou aboutthe decision. Thatiswhy I was thinkingI shouldknowthe decisiouwithin two weeks andnowthey bringme backto a tribunalanddo the wholeprocess again.
TribunalPresident: Thatis correct. I don't knowexactly what was said, itisto your for the newtribunalto considerall ofthe evidencethat the governmenthasgiven usandthis is youropportunityto tell your story again.
Detainec here for three years and I have told them the whole story ofwhat I did. It was three that they put allegations ou that was wrong, I did it” .
ISN # 58 Enclosure Page of Now wantme to say itall overagainandexplainthe whole thingandanswerthe questionsofthe allegationsthat neverdid it. Il'slikethey arejustkeepingmehereand theydo nothaveany cvidenceto provewhatthey aresayingis trueandI don'tknowif theybelievethat I'mtellingthemthe truth. The time been have not seenanythingprovingthat I didanythingwrong. Ifthey have evidenceto showthat I did wrongthings, I'mhere. I wantto what isgoingto happennext.
Tribunal President: Should we move on ? Any more questions ?
Detainee: , we should start. But the thing is, I have beenherefor threeyearsandthe pastthree years, whateverI say, nobodybelievesme. They listen, butthey dou'tbelieve mewhenI tellthemthat I did notdo anythingwrong. I harmedany Americans. I didnotgo againstthe allies. Whatdid I do wrong? I wasjust livingmylife in my country, inmyvillage andneverdidanythingwrong. I don'tknow wherethey gotthose things. I amherebecauseofthosewrong accusationsor wrong informationpeoplegive them . yearsI'mjust heretellingthem , butnobodyseemsto believeme.
Tribunal President: Shed let's fook at the allegations and then you will have the opportunity to respond to cach of the allegations.
Detainec : Okay .
Tribunal President: Personal Representativeplease provide the tribunal with the election form
Personal : I providing the tribunal with the election form that had marked as D - A .
Tribunal President: this form lets us know that you want to participate in the tribunal.
Detaince: Okay.
Tribunal President: It also iadicales that you have written a statement.
Detainee: Yes, my Representativehas it and he will read it .
Tribunal President: Okay, I understandthat Representativeis goingto read itandalsothat youhave two personallettersthat youwould like to submit intoevidence.
Detainee: Yes, I want to this as evidence.
Tribunal President: And you want us to those letters ?
Detaince , that's all the evidence I have and yes you can it for record.
ISN # 581 Enclosure (3) Page 2 UNCLASSIFIED /
Tribunal President: Okay, thank you.
TheRecorderpresented R - intoevidenceandgave a brief descriptionofthecontentsofthe UnclassifiedSummaryof Evidence(ExhibitR - ).
The Recorder confirmed that hehadnofurther unclassified evidence or witnesses and requested a Tribunal session to present classified evidence
Detaincc: Why can't I see those documents?
TribunalPresident: carlierI indicatedthat therewillbe some documentsthat youcannot see becauseofnationalsecurity
The Detaineedidtake the Muslim oath.
The Personal readthe accusations to the detainee so that hecould respond to the allegations. The allegations appear in italics, below .
3.a. The detaineeis memberofthe Taliban:
detainee was born inPishin Pakisium.
Detainee Statement: This is true . I was bom in Pishin , Pakistan .
Personal Representative: Can I go to the second onc
Detainee : Yes. You can for each one and then ifI add I will add.
Personal Representative: Thank -you.
3.a.2. The the Taliban shortly after the control of Kabul, Afghunistan in 1992.
Detainee : I was never a member I never went and joined the Taliban , I never worked with them , I did not know any people in that group and I'm sure he will rcad you same thing. I was just a poor person living my life inmy village .
Detainee Statement: This is not true. I was never a member of the Taliban and I have never been to , Afghanistan . I have never worked with the Taliban.
Detainee: Ifyoudon'tknowthem , howwouldyougo andwork for themor work with them . donnot knowanyone inthe Taliban, so howwouldI go andwork ?
detaineehasbeenidentifiedasholdinga high-rankingpositionin the Taliban as a mililuryjudge.
ISN # Enclosure 3 ) 3 of
00274 UNCLASSIFIED
Detainee Statement: This is not Since my incarceration , I been accused of holding different positions with the Taliban . Initially was accused of being a minister in Kandahar interrogator spoke Pashto. This is when the Americans were . This turned out to be false . One month later, I was accused of being a Taliban security guard in Kandahar female translator accused me of working in prison and told me my name was Botcha , a security guard in this prison in Kandahar.
Detaincc The femalewas the interrogatorwitha translator. Shcbada malctranslator with her
DetaineeStatement: This was as well as I've nevereven heardofthe name Botcha. Now , bcingaccused beinga militaryjudge forthe Taliban. I haveno ideawhy someonewould enake these accusations, as itis not truc. I can only that it was someone from a rival villageclose to myvillageinPakistan. However, I haveno proof becauseI am hereat Guantanamo.
PersonalRepresentativc: Is thereanythingyouwouldlike lo , youwant me go to the nextonc?
Detainee Thatisthe same answerthat wouldhavetoldthe tribunalbutyoutold, sojust go to the nextone.
3.a.4. Inhispositionwiththe Taliban, the detainee , andmurdered Afghaninationalswho werebeingheld Talibanjails.
never hit my own child at home and I neverhurt anyone. Why would I go and torture and murder somconc ?
Statement: This is totallyfalse. TheonlytimeI haveeverbeeninAfghanistan wasfortwo days to attend a funeral. A ncighborinmy villageofPishinhad a relativein Afghanistanthatdied. I went withhimto Afghanistanto attenda fincralscrvicc. I was onlytherefor two days andthenI returnedhome. Howcould I do all ofthesethingsin two days? Itissimply not possible. Duringthe Talibanreign, I never talkedto them . I neverhadany contactwithTalibanat all. Thetwo daysI was inAfghanistanto attenda funeralwere the only twodaysI spent inAfghanistanduringthe timeofthe Taliban, this was in 1999.
Detainee: Those were the only two days I from home to Kandahar, Afghanistan.
Statement: Many livedinPakistanandtheytraveledback and forth . Sorivalriesor difTerencesmighthave occurredon bothsides ofthe border.
Detainee: They tell stories or give accusation to give the other person a hard time .
Enclosure ( ) Page 4 of UNCLASSIFIED / FOVO
DetaineeStatement: I was never a at Afghanistan, norwas I ever a deputyforcignministerineitherofthesetwo countries, norwas I ever a securityguard in these two countries I was only a chickenfarmerinPakistan. I also would occasionally carnsomeextraby helpingout at the local . I wouldteachchildrenhowto pray andto perfonnabsolution I wouldtcachthem rightfrom . , mymain incomewas as a chickcn .
3.a.5. arrested the detainee inFall 2001
Detaince Statement: No, it was the end of January 2002 .
Detainee: Itwas the last days inthe monthofJanuary 2002. Itwould either be the 25 26th or the 28th, but it was the last .
Statement: I was in my . didn't liveon a chickenfarm ; I workedon one. Pakistaniauthoritiesknockedandtoldme they wanted to search my them why wanted to searchmy house; they told methat they were searchingfor ancient artifacts werelooted. I didn'tknowwhat they were aboutand I hadnothingto hide. They didn't findany artifacts because I didn'thave any to find However, the Pakistani authoriticstold I hadto go with them the policestation. askedthem why they scarch the houseandthey foundnothing I told I hadto go. At the police station, the questions were aboutthe ancientartifacts. I pointed to themthat they scarchedmyhouse and loundnothing. The police then toldmethat eventhough didn't any artifacts, ifI didn'tgivethem money ora bribeI was gone. I toldthem that I didn'thave any moneyto but evenifI didwasn'tgoingto give it to them . I askedwhat I haddonc
I toldthem evenifI havemoneyI would notgive itto youbecausewhat did do wrong? Whyare youasking for moncy?
Statement : I asked what have I done that I need pay you for ? They said it doesn't matter; we just want the money. Since I refused pay the bribe, we never discussed the amount of they wanted .
Detainee I never asked them that.
Detainee : me wouldsit until I paid them , and took me to a . Theyputmein a cellfor a few hoursandthenblindfoldedme andputmeina car withsomeoneelseanddrove us to anotherlocation. I was keptina Pakistanijail for -six days. Duringthistime, a Pakistanisolider askedme ifthere was someoneelse in myvillagewith the samenameas I. I told them itcould be, but I didn't knowfor sure, The soliderthentold that they werelookingfor someone andthey had me. That was all he saidto . Afterthirty- six daysinthe Pakistanijail they cameand me one night. Theytied my hands behindmyback, put a hoodover my face, andputme intoa car. AlthoughI couldn'tsee anything wereotherprisonersinthis car. One ofthe soldiers was speakingPashtoand speaking inaudible).
ISN 581 Enclosure (3) Page 5 of 11 UNCLASSIFIED
Detainee : One of the soldiers was speaking Pashto because I could understand and thc was speaking (inaudible ) which I did not understand.
Statement: Whenthe car stopped, I couldhearairplanes. Theytookme from the car and putmcintoan wereAmericansinthis aircraft.
: My eyes were closed . I could not see ifthey were Americans , but the language changed - before itwas our language and then it people who speak English like Americans here - that is why I made the assumption it was .
Statement: I still could notsee anythingbecauseI was blindfolded, butthey werespeakingEnglish. Whenwe landed, they asked myname andI toldthem Abdur Rahman. The whowas speakingPashto what languagesI spoke. I answeredthat I only spokePashto. I was then that I was notAbdurRahmanand I was AbdurRahmanZahid. That was not , mynameAbdur SayedRahaman. AbdurSayedRahmanwas the deputyforeignministeroftheTaliban. I was taken to this campandtheybeginto interrogatcme AnAmericantoldmethat I was wrongfully takenandthat ina coupleofdays I wouldbe free I neversaw this American and I'mstill Sincethen, I have also beenaccusedof being a securityguard, whichis nottrue. NowI have this newaccusationthat I am a militaryjudgeofthe Taliban. This issimplynottrue. I am innocent.
TribunalPresident: Do youwant to add anythingelseto this statement?
Detaiuec That isall I to say andI have toldthe tribunalbefore, likeI told you beforeinthe lasttribunal. What I told youtoday, what I havebeentellingyouforthe past years, that'swhat I did. I wrongfullyaccused. The pasttwo ycars, 1 beentellingyouthat I'minnocent, I didn'tdo anythingwrongandthat I've accused, butnobodybelievesme. Evenwhen I you what youtold me the last tribunal, you did not agree with me; you said you never said that. That's my luck that I prove anything, how you told me one thing before and now you say else. That is all I have been suying for the past two to everyone , but nobody listen to me.
The Personal Representative hadnofurther questions
Recorder Am correct because ofyour a ago, that your is Abdur Sayed Rahman
Detaincc: fullname isAbdurRahman. Sayed is a tribc. usually usc thc name whenwe make IDfrom ourowncountry so people uscthc becauseit easy for somepeopleto locate, to thc tribc villageis Thatis why they use the tribe on their knowthe location. Ifyougo to my villageandask the village, like my relatives, yousay Rahman theywillnot knowmebecausewe don't use the Sayednamewithusallofthe time in the village.
Enclosurd Page 6 of 11 UNCLASSIFIED
Usually we people the tribe nameonthcir ID, butifyoujust ask them aboutAbdur Rahman, yes they willtellyouthat they knowme, they you whereI live, andtell youeverythiugaboutme because people over there just know by AbdurRahmannot Abdur SayedRahman. We paperwork.
Tribunal Members ' questions
Q. You said the only time you went to Afghanistan was the days in 1999 ?
A. , during the Taliban time I went for two days I don't knowthe cxact date or year, but they asked me: you cver go to Afghanistan during the time of the Taliban ? " I said yes, for those two days. They asked me when , and I said it was two years before when the Taliban collapsed . Two years before when I went for two days it was 1999 or 1998, you can figure it out because I don't kuow the cxact year.
Q. Beforethe Taliban, didyoufight inAfghanistanagainst the Russiansatall?
A. Yes, I was inAfghanistan, butI was young - probably15 yearsofage. Russia was there, but I'mnot sure howold I was; 15, 16, 20 atthe most.
Q. While you were inPakistan, were you ever associated with any of the Taliban offices inPakistan ?
I swearthat I did notknowaboutthe embassy, I didnotknowofany Taliban offices in Pakistan . I swear I never went to their office to work with them.
Q. Howmanychickenswereon farm thatyouworkedat?
It is notanexactnumberthat you allthe time. Itdependsonhow much money you've got. You can thousand pieces and next time maybe you have more money and then you will bring thousand and ifyou don't have and probably like hundred . But it is not an exact number that you keep all the time,
Q. Where you just working or were you in charge ?
A. It was not a big farm or anything, it just like this room and you just put chickensinthis roomormaybetwo roomsandjust feedthem , youcankeep the chickensin . It'snotlikedany big farm or land.
Q. Howmanyotherpeopleworkedwithyou ?
ISN # Enclosure (3 ) Page 7 of UNCLASSIFIED /
Itwas just my brother, and ifI any extra help to clean the room , then I would hire someone and pay pieces andjust use for a couple of days. But most ofthe time it was just me and my brother.
Q. Is your brother still back Pakistan ?
A Yes
Q. What did you leed the chickens ?
A. It was a mixtureoffoodthey sell inthe bazaar.
Q. What city were you in ?
A. Inmy
Q. Was it inPishinor was it otherplace?
A. The village we were living in is named Kuclagh and that is between Pishin and Borta, Pakistan. The village is between those two cities but we fall under the Pishin district.
Q. How far fromthe Afghanborderisthat?
A. Sir, I don'tknowexactlyhowfarit is, but ifyou're going in a car, itcantake about two hours. But, ifyou take a bus, it can maybc to four hours, becausethe bus usuallystop differentplacesandpicks uppeopleanddrops peopleoff. not sure. Itdependson how fast the car is going; itcan take two to four hours
Didyou sell your chickens in Afghanistan or only inPakistan ?
A. We the chickenon a farm andwhen they get thenthe sellerwould coine andbuy from usand itin thestore, market, or the bazaarandsellit to the locals. The storcownerswouldcome and buyfrom us
President's questions
Q. Yousaidinyour that therearerivalriesand differencesbetweenthe Afghans andPakistanis, what didyoumcanby that ?
I meanwhenthe Afghans weat to Pakistanas duringthe a lot ofpeople are livinginPakistan, a ofpeople there arelivingthereall this time in this country. They have relativesonthe othersideofthe border. They usuallygo and each other. You have peopleonboth sidesand sometimes you differencesinyourvillage. Some peoplehavefamilydifferences. They
ISN # Enclosure (3 ) Page of UNCLASSIFIED
don't likc cach other when travel, they are looking for thc right time to give you a hard time. They cannot you a hard time in one , but when you over the border they will say something on the other side to just you a hard time to see you get in trouble . The Pashto culture, we have a lot of and they will forget that. Their differences can be personal, family to -lamily, or tribe - to - tribe. Ifyou are living in that tribe, it doesn't matter ifyou did anything wrong to them . People still will give you a hard time because you belongto that tribe.
Q. Is that your translation of what he said or is that your explanation ?
Translator No that is what he said .
Q. Didyou have any rivals inPakistanor inAfghanistan ?
A. Yes, everybody has inaudible) inPashto pcoplc because ifyou and another kid get into a fight it goes to parents. Even if they solve the problem , it is still in their hcart. When get a chance, they will give you a hard time.
Q. When you went to Afghanistan the Russians, whom did you fight with ?
A. the Russianscame, livinginAfghanistan, in Kandahar. Halfof my family moved to Pakistan. I was livinginKandaharwith my eldest. I was maybe 15 or 16 old . I did not know any groups or organization time but on someone, who are the people fighting against the Russiaus ? One told me it was commander President( inaudible), he was the commander
Didyouhave to receiveany training youstartedfighting?
A. I don't knowifI receivedany training. Nobody gave ine any trainiag, but I was young . The only thing they would do is send me to the houses because they were living far from the village to go and get food from the village. I would go get some tea I would some food for lunch and dinner and bring them the food. Since was young, I did not . I would bring food.
Q. Was it a requirementofyour family to participateina jihad ?
A. I was young and I did not know all of thosethings. Most people inthat time were momentarilybecauscthcy had toldthat the Russianswantedto invadethecountry. I was young, I didn'tknow . askedpeople: was the food andthe helpcomingfrom to fight against the Russians? They said that the Americangovernmentwas providingsuppom Afghansto fight against the Russians. Weaponsandfood were comingfrom the Uniled
Q. Is it a requirement of your religion fight against the Americans ?
ISN# 581 ) Page 9 of 11 UNCLASSIFILD
I have been here the whole time. I have been here for three years. I have been here in Cuba for two and a halfyears I was inKandahar for three to five months, and now I am here for and a halfyears .
Q. Whendidyou leave Afghanistanto go to Pakistan ?
A. During the Russian time my family left. They never came back to Afghanistan . was livingwith them , but I would go to Afghanistan. Therewas only a certain amount oftime I couldstay there. I have friends and relativesthere and would and visit them . Jihad was also one otherthing. I was going inand out, but it was no spccific time on how longI stayedinAfghanistan.
Q. Do you have an alias ?
A. You can go country , Afghanistan or Pakistan, this is only name that peopleknow by
Detainee What will happen now ? I have a lotof expectation from this tribunal, so what will happen next ?
Tribunal President: I will explain to you all the procedures inthe process. Do you have anything that you will like to add ?
Detaince , that is all.
The Tribunal President confirms that the detainee had no evidence or witnesses to present to the Tribunal.
PersonalRepresentative: I have two lettersthat I will givethe tribunal, whicharemarked as - andD - d
TribunalPresident Thesc arc from whom ?
Detainee: Oneis from mybrotherandthe otherone is from my son.
Tribunal : Any other questions from the tribunal members ?
Tribunal Members : Is that the brother that worked with you with the chickens ?
Detainee: . I havconly one brother
The TribunalPresidentexplains the remainder of the Tribunalprocess to the detainee and adjourns the Tribunal.
Detainee: is next review board to happen ?
ISN # 581 Enclosure ( 3 ) Page 10 of Tribunal President: I can't say exactly that is going to happen. There will be someone else administering that board .
Detainee I living in Pakistan for all this . I don't care what is going on in Afghanistan . The is inAfghanistan and I'm going to Pakistan to my home. I'm not concem about Afghanistan what is going on there .
Tribunal Sayed, it is very importantthat you allow your translator complete your so that we make sure thatwe understandeverythingthatyou want us to
Delainee Okay I was just sayingthat goingto PakistanbecauseI havehouseand family inPakistan. is going on in , I care about There is no fight inPakistan, everythingis happeningin Afglianistan.
AUTHENTICATION
the inaterial contained inthis transcript is a true and accurate summary ofthe testimony given during the prococdings.
Colonel, United States Army Tribunal President
ISN Enclosure ( 3 ) Page of 11 On 9 Dec 2004 , I (PR 100) conducted an interview with 581 to inform him that his tribunal was re-convening to consider new classified information , and that he had the option to attend the unclassified portion of the tribunal ifhe wanted to . He indicated to me that he wanted to attend the tribunal, have me read a statement regarding each allegation , and then he would make comments if he wanted to. I went over each allegation in the unclassified summary and then read the detainee's original response to each, as documented by the original PR (PR 23 ) . In a few instances the detainee wanted to make corrections to the written statement , which are indicated below (the original text is marked by strikethrough ; added text is indicated in bold) .
[ The followinginformationwas originallyobtainedby PR23 inan interviewwith581 on 13Sep 2004.]
Detainee Sayed Abdur Rahman dictated the following written statement on 13 Sept 2004 in
responseto hisunclassifiedsummaryofevidencedated4 Sept2004.
1. In responseto ( ) theunclassifiedsummary, this istrue. I was borninPishin, Pakistan
2. Inresponseto (A2) oftheunclassifiedsummary, this isnottrue. I was nevera memberof
the Talibanand I haveneverbeento KabulAfghanistan. I haveneverworked withthe
Taliban.
3. Inresponseto (A3) oftheunclassifiedsummary, this is nottrue. Sincemyincarceration, I
havebeenaccusedof holdingthreedifferentpositionswith the Taliban. InitiallyI was
accused of being a Deputy Minister inKandahar by an interrogator who spoke Pastu .
This was when the Americans were there . This turned out to be false. One month later, I was accused ofbeing a Taliban Security guard in a prison in Kandahar A female accused me of working in a prison and told me my name was Bacha, a security guard in this
prison in Kandahar. This was false as well as I've never even heard of the name Bacha.
Now I am being accusedofbeing a militaryjudgefor the Taliban. I haveno ideawhy
Exhibit D -b of4
283 someone would make this accusation , as it is not true. I can only speculate that it was
someone from rival village close to my village in Pakistan . However, I have no proof
because I am here at GTMO.
4. Inresponse to ( A4) of the unclassified summary, this is totally false. The only time I have
ever been in Afghanistan was for two days to attend a funeral. A neighbor inmy village of
Pishin had a relativein Afghanistanwho died. I went withhim to Afghanistanto attend the
funeral service. I was only there for two days and then I returnedhome. Howcould I do all
this things intwo days, it is simply not possible. During the Taliban's reign I never even
talkedto them . I never hadany contactswith the Taliban at all. The two days I was in
Afghanistan to attend the funeral were the only two days I spent in Afghanistan in
duringthe time of the Taliban ( This was in 1999). Many Afghanis lived in Pakistan
and they traveledback and forth. So rivalries or differencesmighthaveoccurred on both
sides of the border. I was never a judge in Pakistan or Afghanistan, nor was I ever a Deputy
Foreign Minister ineither of these two countries, nor was I ever a security guard in these two countries. I am only a chicken farmer in Pakistan. I also would occasionally some extra
money by helping out at the local mosque. I would teach children how to pray and
how to perform absolution, I would teach them right from wrong. However, my main
incomeandoccupationwas as a chickenfarmer
5. Inresponse to (A5 ) of the unclassified summary , no it was the end of Jan 2002. I was in my
home. I didn't liveon the chickenfarm I worked on one. The Pakistaniauthoritiesknocked
on my door and told me that they wanted to search my house. I asked them why they wanted
ExhibitD 2 of 4
284 to searchmy house and I was told that they were lookingfor ancient artifactsthat were looted. I didn'tknowwhat they weretalkingaboutandI hadnothingto hide. They didn't find any artifacts, as I didn't have any to find. However, the Pakistani authorities told me that I had to go with them to the police station . I asked them why ; they searched the house and found nothing? I was told I had to go. At the police station they questioned me more about the ancient artifacts. I told them you searched my house and you found nothing. The police then told me that even though they didn't find any artifacts, if didn't give them money, a bribe, I was gone. I told them that I didn't have any money to give them , but even ifI did I wasn't going to give it to them . I asked, “ Whathave I done that need to payyou for?" They saiditdoesn'tmatterwejust want the money Since I hadrefusedto pay the bribe, we never even discussed the amount ofmoney they wanted . They told me I'd sit until
I paid them and took me to a cell They kept me inthis cell for a few hours, and then blind foldedme andputme in a car withsomeoneelseanddroveusto another location. I was kept in a Pakistani jail for 36 days. Duringthis time, a Pakistani soldier asked me ifthere was someone else in my village with the same name as I. I told them there could be, but I didn'tknowfor sure. This soldierthen told methat they were lookingfor someoneelseand they had foundhimme. That was all hesaidto me. After 36 days inthe Pakistanijail, they came and got me one night, tied my hands behind my back, put a hood over my face and put me into a car . Although I couldn't see anything, there were other prisoners inthis car. One of the soldiers was speaking Pastu and several others were speaking Urdu. When the car stopped I could hear airplanes. They took me from the car and put me into an aircraft. There were Americans inthis aircraft. I still couldn't see anything because I was blindfolded, but they were speaking English . When we landed they asked for my name and I told them Abdur
Exhibit D -b 3 of 4
285 Rahman. Then a translatorwho was speaking Pastuaskedmewhat languagesI spoke. I answered that I only spoke Pastu . I was then told that I was not Abdur Rahman; I was Abdur
Zahid Rabman Zahid . That was not correct, my name is Abdur Sayed Rahman .
Abdur Zahid Rahmanwas the Deputy ForeignMinisterofthe Taliban. I was taken to this camp and they began to interrogateme. An American later told me that I was wrongfully taken and that in a couple of days I would be free. I never saw this American again and still here. Since then , I have also been accused ofbeing a Security Guard, which is not true.
Now I have this new accusation , that I am a military judge of the Taliban . This is simply not true, I aminnocent.
Exhibit D - 4 of4
286 This letter was translated by OL 4 , it reads:
From ( CENSORED ) ( CENSORED ), greetings. We are, thank god, doing good.
We want your happiness from God. Your school is going well, everyone inthe
family is doing well. Your chicken farm is there, and we check on your school.
We are praying for you. Wish you luck, salam .
Note: On the front ofthe letter, from SayedAbdulSalam SayedAbdul to Sayed Abdul Rehman
EXHIBIT from blank to Blank greetings. Weare thank God , your happiness from . schoolis going well everyone the chicken are is there , and we check on your school . luck Salam praying for you on the front, in letter they concealed fio - Abdul Haq
208 NA
2
7. RED CROSS MESSAGE SENDER ICRC
Full
Father's name
-
Mother's name
Nationulity Date birth Sex M village of birth
Refugee camp Detention
Street Village, Districtor City
House
- ICRC
Full
Father's name father's Mother's
Nationality Dateof birth vilage / Place of birth
Refugee camp / Detention place
Street
Village, Districtor
Province/Country House No. } .
10. INTERNATIONALCOMMITTEEOF THEREDCROSS
19, de la Paix - 1202 Geneva , Switzerland DA ACR 11. REPLYTO THE MESSAGE Fanuly and private
.. ... ...
. .
.
Date Signature }
The OL 4 translated this letter, it reads:
From your brothers Abdul Haq Agha , Abdul Salam Agha and the whole family
and friends to our brother. Our brother at home everything is fine, from young to
old thank God everyone is fine else is doing wewant your happiness
fromGod. We want yourhappinessfrom GodlikeAbrahamwhen hewas inthe
middleofthe fire and Godprotectedhim We triedto releaseyoubut we haven't
found any response, we will try God willing, and we hope that you will be
released, andyour chickenfarm is there. CENSOREDis also sendinghis
greetings. Yourletteryousent to Quetta, youwrotethat youwroteus a lotof
letters andyouhaven'tsentresponses, we'verepliedto all ofyour letters. I don't
knowwhy ithasn'tgottenthere. We are prayingfor you and we will pray.
Sept 26, 2002
EXHIBIT D from your Abdul , Abdul the and to our brother brother home everything fine , from young to old thank istine Everyone else is doing good wewant your happiness from bod . Wewant your happiness from God like Abraham when he was in the middle ofthe God protected him we tried to release will you but we haven't found any response, we will willing hope that you be released , and your Blank is also sending his greetings . your sent to wrote that you us alot of letters and you responses , don't why Ho all of your for gotten there. are praying you and we will pray.
Sept26 2002
292 7.REDCROSSMESSAGE .8SENDER ICRC
Full } Father'sname Grand-
Mother's Nationality KAD US BY Date of birth FORCESSex M of birth
Refugeecamp/ place REP Street Village, District or ..
. Full name Rahm Father's Abdul Sayed Grand - father's narrté . Nationality
Date Sex F M village district provinc Placeof birth
Refugee camp pluce Stroet
Village, District orCity } Province /Country House No.
10. INTERNATIONAL COMMITTEE OF THE RED CROSS
19, av . de Paix - 1202 Geneva, Switzerland MCR EN 11 REPLYTO THE MESSAGE Family andor private news only
Dat 22 Signature
The addressce my