24 E z. 2 MA C 2
M nd , M r h ,
Two O C OCK .M.
Prayers by Capt. . l .
Mr. Speaker gave his reserved decision on the matter of privilege raised by Mr. G b n on February 27, 1975, as follows: n r bl M b r ,— h Honourable Member for North Vancouver- Capilano raised as a matter of privilege last Thursday a complaint relating to the disclosure of settlement figures between Public Service Union bargaining units and the Government. He cites the Hon. Provincial Secretary as stating on February 25 to the House in question period: "I intend to adhere to the agreement I have with the union involved not to release the details of settlements until all negotiations are complete." He considers news of disclosure to the public and not to the House to be a breach of privilege of the members and a contempt. There is no evidence from the honourable member that press releases or public statements to the newspapers and media have been made by the Hon. Provincial Secretary. Therefore the fact that the public has become aware before some honourable members of this House does not preclude the information having been received by the Employers' Council of British Columbia by some other simple means. For example, the public may be astute enough to examine existing Orders in Council. Had they done so, certainly the information sought in question period would have been easily discovered. That means, of course, that the Honourable Member for North Vancouver-Capilano could have satisfied his curiosity without the assistance of question period. I have secured most if not all of these Orders in Council for the honourable member. Both May and Beauchesne declare that information already available in public documents (such as Orders in Council, Statutes, or Government reports) should not be sought in oral question period. It follows therefore that such readily acces- sible information can hardly be the springboard for a matter of breach of privilege. In the 18th edition of May, page 327, it states: ". . . questions requiring information set forth in accessible documents (such as Statutes, treaties, etc.) have not been allowed when the member concerned could obtain the information of his own accord without difficulty." Thus no prima facie breach of the privileges of the House can be attributed to the Hon. Provincial Secretary, nor need this decision on these existing facts require at this time any consideration by the House as to the whole subject of privileges of parliament in relation to the subject of release of information outside the House. G. H. DOWDING, Sp r
Order called for "Oral Questions by Members."
Pursuant to Order, the House resumed the adjourned debate on the motion "That Mr. Speaker do now leave the chair" for the House to go into Committee of Supply. 28 MA C h d b t nt n d. On th t n f th n. . G. r r, th d b t dj rn d t th n xt tt n f th .
l v f th , th n. . A. W ll d t t nt r l t n t th C l b v r r j t C t ll t n St d C tt nd, b l v , t bl d C tt n t nd r nd r l t n th r t .
h n. A. . M d n ld (Att rn G n r l pr nt d th f ll n : p rt f th f r C n f r t h C l b n C v l ht ( r j t . , rt I —A r d r f r d l v f th A t n f St t t r A n . p rt f th f r C n f r t h C l b n C v l ht ( r j t . , rt III— r d r f r St t t r A n . h fth Ann l p rt f th f r C n f r t h C l b f r th l nd r r 4. h h rd p rt f th W r r C p n t n rd d n t r n th Cr n l Inj r C p n t n A t, f r th p r d n r , 4, t b r , 4. h S nd p rt f th .C. En r C n. h n. Ern t ll ( r v n l S r t r pr nt d th 6th Ann l p rt f th bl S rv C n f r th r 4. Mr. Sp r pr nt d th r p rt f th br r n, p r nt t th l t v br r A t, h pt r 2 6, .S. .C. 60, f r th r 4.
Mr . rd n d th n. th M n t r f A r lt r th f ll n t n W th r p t t th In A r n r r . Wh t th t t l r v n l nt p d t t d t nd t h h d t r p ? 2. Wh t th t t l d r l nt p d t fr n pt n t d t nd t h h d t r p ? h n. . . St p h r pl d f ll : " . S n , $26 , 2.62 ppl , $2,82 , 20. f ld t t , $2,0 4. d r (t b r , 4 , $ 4,264, 4. 6 t t l, $ , 6 ,84 . 0. (C t t G v rn nt r nd n t l pr d r pr . "2. l."
lv d, h t th , t t r n , d t nd dj rn d nt l 2 l p. . t rr .
And th n th dj rn d t 6.08 p. . 24 E z. 2 MA C 2
d , M r h 4,
Two O C OCK .M.
Prayers by the Rev. P. Hawkes.
Mr. D. A. Anderson rose on a matter of privilege relating to information given to the House by the Hon. Lorne Nicolson (Minister of Housing). Mr. Speaker stated that he would take the matter under advisement.
Order called for "Oral Questions by Members."
Pursuant to Order, the House resumed the adjourned debate on the motion "That Mr. Speaker do now leave the chair" for the House to go into Committee of Supply. The debate continued. On the motion of the Hon. Eileen E. Dailly the debate was adjourned to the next sitting of the House.
Resolved, That the House, at its rising, do stand adjourned until 2 o'clock p. . tomorrow.
And then the House adjourned at 4.59 p.m.
W dn d , M r h ,
Two O C OCK .M.
Prayers by the Rev. Charles A. Barker.
By leave of the House, the Hon. Lorne Nicolson (Minister of Housing) tabled Memorandum of Agreement dated January 14, 1975, between Casa Loma Motel Ltd. and Her Majesty the Queen in Right of the Province of British Columbia.
Order called for "Oral Questions by Members."
Pursuant to Order, the House resumed the adjourned debate on the motion "That Mr. Speaker do now leave the chair" for the House to go into Committee of Supply. The debate continued. Mr. Schroeder moved in amendment, seconded by Mr. Richter— "That Mr. Speaker do now leave the chair" for the House to go into Com- mittee of Supply be amended by adding the following words: "but this House 30 MARCH 5 1975 r r t th t n th p n n f th th n. th M n t r f n n h f l d t t bl h b d t pr r t n h t pr v d d t f n n l pr v n f r r v n h r n th l l v rn nt, n nt v t t l t h n , nd n nt v t d v l p r t r n b r f j b pp rt n t n th r v n f r t h C l b ." h d b t nt n d. On th t n f Mr. Bennett th d b t dj rn d t th n xt tt n f th .
h n. G. V. Lauk (M n t r f E n v l p nt r n tt r f pr v l r l t n t th r p n b l t f b r f r f t t t d n p tt n t n d r n th t n p r d. Mr. Sp r t t d h ld r rv n d r t n f th tt r.
l v f th , Mr. Curtis thdr th f ll n t f Q t n t nd n n h n n th Ord r p r: 2 Mr. Curtis t th n. th M n t r f r t n nd C n rv t n th f ll n t n : . In h l t n n th r v n , h n r b d h v b n r h d b p r t n SAM (S lv A bl M n f t r n n r , 4, t th t r nt d t f r h h nf r t n v l bl ? 2. h h r h n pl nt( r r b d , ll t d nd r th pr r , d l v r d? . n r n l d tr t thr h t th r v n n p r t th th p rt nt n th pr r ? h n. A. B. Macdonald (Att rn G n r l pr nt d th Ann l p rt f th .C. rd f r l f r th r 4. h n. Phyllis F. Young (M n t r f C n r S rv pr nt d th r t Ann l p rt f th p rt nt f C n r S rv f r th r nd d b r , 4. h n. Gordon H. Dowding (Sp r pr nt d th fth p rt f th Sp r n th Legislative Procedure and Practice Inquiry Act.
Resolved, That the House, at its rising, do stand adjourned until 8.30 o'clock p.m. today.
And then the House adjourned at 6.03 p.m.
W dn d , M r h ,
HALF-PAST EIGHT O'CLOCK P.M.
Mr. Speaker made a statement relating to the accuracy of and the responsibility for facts stated in the course of putting questions during question period. 24 E z. 2 MA C 6
Pursuant to Order, the House resumed the adjourned debate on the amendment to the motion "That Mr. Speaker do now leave the chair" for the House to go into Committee of Supply. The debate continued. On the motion of the Hon. rn l n the debate was adjourned to the next sitting of the House.
lv d, That the House, at its rising, do stand adjourned until 2 o'clock p.m. tomorrow.
And then the House adjourned at 10.57 p.m.
h r d , M r h 6,
Two O C OCK .M.
Prayers by the Rev. . G. tt r n.
On the motion of Mr. nn tt, Bill (No. 34) intituled C t z n In t t v A t was introduced, read a first time, and Ord r d to be placed on the Orders of the Day for second reading at the next sitting after today.
Order called for "Oral Questions by Members."
During the question period, by leave of the House, the Hon. rn l n (Minister of Housing) tabled correspondence from Central Mortgage and Housing Corporation to the Department of Housing relating to Casa Loma Motel Ltd.
Pursuant to Order, the House resumed the adjourned debate on the amendment to the motion "That Mr. Speaker do now leave the chair" for the House to go into Committee of Supply. The debate continued. The amendment was negatived on the following division: YEAS-17 Gibson McClelland Anderson, D. A. Phillips Gardom Richter McGeer Bennett Schroeder Wallace Fraser Smith Morrison Williams, L. A. Chabot Jordan Curtis NAYS-31
Liden Dent Barrett Nicolson Lewis Brown Macdonald Young Webster Calder Hall Lea Kelly Hartley Gorst Cocke Steves Stupich Lockstead Williams, R. A. Barnes Nimsick Gabelmann Lorimer Anderson, G. H. Strachan Skelly Levi Rolston Dailly Nunweiler 2 MA C On th t n f th n. . M. Str h n th d b t n th n t n dj rn d t th n xt tt n f th .
lv d, h t th , t t r n , d t nd dj rn d nt l 8. 0 l p. . t d . h n. . . St p h (M n t r f A r lt r pr nt d th M l rd Ann l p rt f r th r nd d b r , 4. And th n th dj rn d t . 6 p. .
h r d , M r h 6,
A AS EIG O C OCK .M. r nt t Ord r, th r d th dj rn d d b t n th t n " h t Mr. Sp r d n l v th h r" f r th t nt C tt f S ppl . h d b t nt n d. On th t n f th n. G. I?. th d b t dj rn d t th n xt tt n f th .
lv d, h t th , t t r n , d t nd dj rn d nt l 0 l . . t rr .
And th n th dj rn d t p. .
r d , M r h ,
E O C OCK A.M.
r r b th v. . . All n.
r nt t Ord r, th r d th dj rn d d b t n th t n " h t Mr. Sp r d n l v th h r" f r th t nt C tt f S ppl . h d b t nt n d. On th t n f Mr. C ld r th d b t dj rn d t th n xt tt n f th .
lv d, h t th , t t r n , d t nd dj rn d nt l 2 l p. . n M nd n xt.
And th n th dj rn d t p. . 24 Euz. 2 MARCH 10 33
M nd , M r h 0,
Two O'CLOCK P.M.
Prayers by Canon T. Bailey.
By leave of the House, the Hon. W. S. King (Minister of Labour) presented the First Annual Report of the Labour Relations Board of British Columbia for the year ended December 31, 1974.
The following Bills were introduced, read a first time, and Ordered to be placed on the Orders of the Day for second reading at the next sitting after today: On the motion of Mr. Bennett, Bill (No. 35) intituled Franchise Dealers Pro- tection Act, 1975. On the motion of Mr. Gorst, Bill (No. 12) intituled Royal Roads Military College Degrees Act.
Order called for "Oral Questions by Members."
Pursuant to Order, the House resumed the adjourned debate on the motion "That Mr. Speaker do now leave the chair" for the House to go into Committee of Supply. The debate continued. On the motion of the Hon. Norman Levi the debate was adjourned to the next sitting of the House.
Resolved, That the House, at its rising, do stand adjourned until 2 o'clock p.m. tomorrow.
Mr. Wallace presented a petition as follows: To the Honourable the Legislative Assembly of the Province of British Columbia in Legislature Assembled: The petition of the undersigned, property owners and parents of school children residing in School District No. 61, humbly showeth: That whereas the property-owners in School District No. 61 have paid educa- tional taxes as their statutory financial requirement toward providing public school education for the children of School District No. 61; and Whereas the Public Schools Act describes the system of education to be avail- able to all school children in all school districts of the Province of British Columbia; and Whereas regular educational services are not now being provided to the chil- dren of School District No. 61, so that these children are thereby being deprived of the educational services for which parents and property- owners have paid taxes. 4 MA C 0 Wh r f r r p t t n r h bl pr th t r n r bl b pl d t d v l p t p r r lt rn t v d f pr v d n r l r d t n l rv t th h l h ldr n f S h l tr t . 6 . And n d t b nd, r p t t n r ll v r pr . t d th 8th d f M r h . A. A K A E E , 2 ll Str t v SMI , 2 ll Str t O E UCE, 04 Ch b rl n Str t
60 Mr. Gardom d th n. th M n t r f r n p rt nd C n t n th f ll n t n : C n rn n th In r n C rp r t n f r t h C l b . Wh t t nthl l r p r ll? 2. Wh t t l r h d l , f rn h n f ll p rt l r f j b p t n nd r t ? . Ar n pl f th bl S rv n d n n r nn t d th n r r nt t f rth nd r th Insurance Corporation of British Columbia Act r th Automobile Insurance Act nd, f , h n pl , h r h v th b n pl d, nd h t h b n th r r n r t n? h n. R. M. Strachan t t d th t, n h p n n, th r pl h ld b n th f r f t rn nd th t h h d n bj t n t l n h t rn p n th t bl f th , nd th r p n pr nt d h t rn.
0 Mr. Wallace d th n. th M n t r f r n p rt nd C n t n th f ll n t n: W th r rd t A t pl n d r n th r 4: Wh t p r nt f ll p l p r h d b ht d r tl fr th In r n C rp r t n f r t h C l b ? h n. R. M. Strachan r pl d f ll : " h p r nt f n nd r n l v h l p l f r th 4 l n r d d r t b th In r n C rp r t n f r t h C l b f r th p r d n r 4 t br r . p r nt."
Mr. Wallace d th n. th M n t r f r n p rt nd C n t n th f ll n t n : W th r p t t th f n n l nd t n f IC C t th t r nt d t f r h h nf r t n v l bl . Wh t l t v t t l r v n h d b n r v d fr (a) th r v n l G v rn nt, (b) nv t nt, (c) th l f rt f t nd n r n p l , nd (d) ll th r r ? 2. Wh t l t v t t l f xp nd t r h d b n d n r p t f (a) p t l tl f r ph l f l t , (b) l r , (c) p r h f ppl nd rv , (d) p nt t n r n p l h ld r p r nt t n r n v r bl t n , (e) r p nt f G v rn nt dv n , (f nv t nt , nd (g) ll th r ll t n ? h n. R. M. Strachan r pl d f ll : " nd 2. h Insurance Corporation of British Columbia Act r r th t h f n n l t t nt h ll b l d b f r th l t v A bl n d t 24 E z. 2 MA C 0
within sixty days next following the end of the year (February 28, 1975) for which the statement is made if the Legislative Assembly is then in session, otherwise on a date within fifteen days after the opening of the next following session.' "We intend to comply with this requirement."
Mrs. Jordan asked the Hon. the Minister of Transport and Communications the following questions: With respect to land purchases for ICBC- 1. Which lands purchased were classed as agricultural land? 2. What were their legal descriptions and classifications? 3. What is the approximate size and the total cost of each? 4. What is the current use of each? 5. What were the dates of purchases of each? With respect to land options of ICBC- 1. What lands, presently in land freeze, does ICBC have options on either directly or indirectly now? 2. What is the location and legal description of these lands? 3. What is the date of expiration of options? 4. What is the total price of these lands? 5. What is the option price of these lands? The Hon. R. M. Strachan replied as follows: "With respect to land purchases for ICBC- "1. A site located at No. 5 Road and Steveston Highway, Richmond, B.C. "2. E. 1/2 of SW. 1/4 of Sec. 31, Bk. 4 N., R. 5 W., NVVD, W. 1/2 of SW. 1/4 of Sec. 31, Bk. 4 N., R. SW., NVVD; save and except Explanatory Plan, Parcel A15048, Parcel B15251, Parcel C15250, and the part subdivided by 36037 and 37254; Lot 56 of Sec. 31, Bk. 4 N., R. 5 W., Plan 36037, NWD. Classification ALR-2. "3. Size, 20.8 acres; cost, $550,000. "4. The Corporation is permitting the Department of Agriculture to use the property for allotment gardens. Since the purchase of the property we have per- mitted the previous tenants to remain on a portion of this property. The previous tenants occupy a house and utilize a barn on the property and lease them from the Insurance Corporation of British Columbia on a month-to-month basis at a cost of $130 per month. "5. November 1, 1973. "With respect to land options of ICBC- "1. Nil. "2, 3, 4, and 5. Not applicable."
Mr. Speaker delivered his reserved decision on the point of order raised by Mr. D. A. Anderson on March 4 as follows: Honourable Members,—Claims of breach of privilege raised by members relating to the veracity of statements attributed to members continue to plague the records of Hansard in Ottawa and the numerous claims of privilege to be found there have consistently been rejected by the distinguished Speakers of that House whenever they occur. I quote from the Votes and Proceedings of the House of Commons of Canada of June 8, 1970, as follows: 6 MA C "If th Ch r r t pt th t n pr p d b th n r bl M b r f r W nn p rth C ntr , nd f th tt r r nt t th C tt n r v l nd El t n , h t ld b nd r n d r t n th r x pt th nd t f M n t r? I t th t th h t ld b nd r n d r t n, nd th t th ld b d n nl b d pt n th pr d r nd r h h h v b n t d n n b r f n b th Ch r, p rt l rl b Mr. Sp r M h n r n th r l n t h h I h v j t r f rr d. "It d t th t pl t n th t n r d b th n r bl M b r f r v r d p t r nd r t nd n r n b t n b r t ll t n f f t. h M n t r f n n h nt rpr t d th t t n h t. Obv l , h n d r nt n th p nt th th n r bl M b r f r W nn p rth, th n r bl M b r f r W nn p rth C ntr , nd th n r bl M b r f r v r. A t t d n t t n f h n f rth d t n: A d p t r n b t n t b r , t ll t n f f t , d n t f lf l th nd t n f rl nt r pr v l . "I h v t r l n th r t n th t th t n pr p d b th n r bl M b r f r W nn p rth C ntr d n t f lf l th r r nt f r pr f f pr v l nd I nn t pt t t th xt nt f p tt n t t th t th pr nt t . I h v t r l th r n pr f f pr v l ." t t l f r th r rd f th r r nt x pl t b f nd n r d r l n rd n l f br h f pr v l n th r nd . In 2, th f ll n p n th n rd f th f C n : p 4 0 0, , , 6 , 2 4 , 6, 268, 8 . In 4, p 04 8, 4802, , 62 , 6 4 nd n 4, p 2 , 68 , 4 8, 8 , . Sp r h v n t ntl r f d t n d r tt n d th rd r f b n f th t t p d ff r n f th nd. h Ord r p r v l bl t v r b r h t rr h d ff r n f p n n v r th f t n f rth r, b r l r n t . G. . OW I G, Sp r
And th n th dj rn d t . 0 p. .
d , M r h ,
O C OCK .M.
r r b th v. K. . r r.
Ord r ll d f r "Or l Q t n b M b r ."
O n t p r nt rr pt n, Mr. Sp r d l r d r .
At th n l n f th r t lv d, h t th , t t r n , d t nd dj rn d nt l 8 l p. . t d .
And th n th dj rn d t 2. 0 p. . 24 E z. 2 MA C 2
Tuesday, March 11, 1975
EIGHT O'CLOCK P.M.
By leave of the House, Order called for "Oral Questions by Members."
Pursuant to Order, the House resumed the adjourned debate on the motion That Mr. Speaker do now leave the chair" for the House to go into Committee of Supply. The debate continued. On the motion of the Hon. D. D. Stupich the debate was adjourned to the next sitting of the House.
Resolved, That the House, at its rising, do stand adjourned until 2 o'clock p.m. tomorrow.
8 Mr. Wallace asked the Hon. the Minister of Agriculture the following ques- tions: 1. Has the Department of Agriculture made specific plans to appear before the Federal Commission of Inquiry of Beef Marketing? 2. If the answer to No. 1 is yes, will a brief representing the British Columbia Government policy be presented to the Commission? The Hon. D. D. Stupich replied as follows: "1. No, but an official of the Department will attend all hearings in the Province as an observer. "2. Not applicable."
The Hon. J. G. Lorimer (Minister of Municipal Affairs) presented the Annual Report of the Department of Municipal Affairs for the year ended December 31, 1974.
And then the House adjourned at 11.05 p.m.
Wednesday, March 12, 1975
Two O'CLOCK P.M.
Prayers by Dr. F. E. H. James.
On the motion of Mr. D'Arcy, Bill (No. 36) intituled Water Facilities Assis- tance Act was introduced, read a first time, and Ordered to be placed on the Orders of the Day for second reading at the next sitting after today. 8 MA C Ord r ll d f r "Or l Q t n b M b r ." r nt t Ord r, th r d th dj rn d d b t n th t n " h t Mr. Sp r d n l v th h r" f r th t nt C tt f S ppl . h d b t nt n d. On th t n f th n. . . th d b t dj rn d t th n xt tt n f th .
lv d, h t th , t t r n , d t nd dj rn d nt l 2 l p. . t rr . h n. . G. C (M n t r f lth pr nt d th nt xth Ann l p rt f th r t h C l b p t l In r n S rv v r n th l nd r r 4. And th n th dj rn d t .46 p. .
h r d , M r h ,
O C OCK .M. r r b r. . W. K rl .
l v f th , Mr. r r pr nt d p t t n f ll : th n r bl th l t v A bl f th r v n f r t h C l b n l t r A bl d: h p t t n f th nd r n d h bl h th: Wh r l r n b r f r d nt f th ll f S rd nd S rd ll h v n d p t t n xpr n d p n rn th t d n n th f t r f l n p r t n n rth rn n v r I l nd ht b d t th l d r t n f th M n t r f nd , r t , nd W t r r nd Wh r th r d nt h v n rn h h n t pl t p t t n n b h lf f n pr v t p n b t r th r th n rn h h ll f ll th r p t t j b , h n , nd n t nv t nt , h h ll b l t f n rr nt pt n f r th t t l b n n l n n th t S h n r f ll d. Wh r f r , r p t t n r h bl pr th t r n r bl r th t b f r n f n l d n t n th r p t t th th t th S l t St nd n C tt n Env r n nt nd r b th r z d t t d th p t n t f rth n th p t t n nd tt h d h t , n f v r f pt n th l n nd tr pr p l r f rr d t t th p bl h r n Opt n E h h ld n d t ntr ll d h rv t n f th t S h n. . . S OU , S rd, .C. WA E G. WE E , S rd, .C. O A. SMI , S rd, .C. 24 E z. 2 MA C l v f th , th n. Norman Levi (M n t r f n r d t t nt r l t n t br d t n r d t t n CK W n M r h , , nd, b l v , t bl d p f t h r f rr d t n h t t nt. l v f th , Mr. Curtis d t t nt r l t n t th tt r. l v f th , Mr. Curtis t bl d p f th tr n r pt f th r d br d t n t n. l v f th , Mr. D. A. Anderson d t t nt r l t n t th tt r. l v f th , th n. David Barrett ( r r d t t nt r l t n t th tt r. Mr. L. A. Williams r n p nt f rd r nd d Mr. Sp r t n d r h th r r n t br h f th pr v l f th h d b n tt d b n t d th r n fr th r d br d t f M r h , . Ord r ll d f r "Or l Q t n b M b r ." r nt t Ord r, th r d th dj rn d d b t n th t n " h t Mr. Sp r d n l v th h r" f r th t nt C tt f S ppl . h d b t nt n d. On th t n f Mr. L. A. Williams, n b h lf f Mr. D. A. Anderson, th d b t dj rn d t th n xt tt n f th . Resolved, h t th , t t r n , d t nd dj rn d nt l 0 l . . t rr . r nt t Ord r, th n. R. M. Strachan pr nt d th f ll n r p rt: REPORT LEGISLATIVE COMMITTEE , MR, SPEAKER: M r h , Y r Sp l C tt pp nt d br r 8 t pr p r nd r p rt l t f b r t p th S l t St nd n C tt f th f r th pr nt S n b t r p rt nd r nd th t th p r nn l f th S l t St nd n C tt f th f r th pr nt S n b f ll : STANDING ORDERS AND PRIVATE BILLS—Messrs. G. H. Anderson (C nv n r , Cummings, Dent, Gabelmann, Lockstead, Mr . Webster, th n. Ernest Hall, th n. A. B. Macdonald, M r . Smith, Chabot, nd Gardom. PUBLIC ACCOU S AND ECO OMIC AFFAIRS—Messrs. Fraser (C nv n r , Cummings, Rolston, Gorst, Kelly, Skelly, Mr . Webster, th n. Phyllis Young, th n. Gary Lauk, th n. A. A. Nunweiler, M r . Bennett, Morrison, Curtis, nd McGeer. AGRICULTURE—Messrs. G. H. Anderson (C nv n r , Cummings, Steves, Kelly, Lewis, Liden, M . Sanford, th n. David Stupich, Mr . Jordan, M r . Curtis, L. A. Williams, nd Wallace. MUNICIPAL AFFAIRS AND HOUSING—MS. Sanford (C nv n r , M . Brown, M r . D'Arcy, Liden, Gorst, Rolston, th n. Lorne Nicolson, th n. James Lorimer, th n. A. A. Nunweiler, M r . Curtis, Phillips, L. A. Williams, nd Wallace. 40 MA C
A OU A US ICE—M r . G. H. Anderson (C nv n r , Barnes, M . Brown, M r . D'Arcy, Dent, Gabelmann, th n. A. B. Macdonald, th n. William King, M r . Smith, Fraser, D. A. Anderson, nd Wallace. EA , E UCA IO , A UMA ESOU CES—M . Brown (C nv n r , M r . Barnes, Calder, Gabelmann, Rolston, Lewis, th n. Eileen Dailly, th n. Dennis Cocke, th n. Norman Levi, M r . McClelland, Schroeder, Rich- ter, Gibson, nd Wallace. A S O A COMMU ICA IO S—M r . Steves (Convener), Calder, Gorst, Kelly, Barnes, th n. William Hartley, th n. Graham Lea, th n. R. M. Strachan, th n. A. A. Nunweiler, M r . Morrison, McClelland, Schroeder, nd Gibson. E I O ME A ESOU CES—M r . D'Arcy (C nv n r , Lockstead, Liden, Lewis, Skelly, Steves, th n. Leo Nimsick, th n. Jack Radford, th n. Robert Williams, M r . Chabot, Richter, Fraser, Gibson, nd Wallace. p tf ll b tt d. . M. S AC A , Acting Chairman l v f th , th r p rt t n r d nd r v d. l v f th , th l r p nd d nd th r p rt d pt d. 20 Mr. Bennett d th n. th M n t r f b r th f ll n t n: W th r p t t th Labour Research Bulletin f r th l nd r r 4, h t r th r l t d f r , b nth, f n d l t thr h tr r l t nd, f th r r n dj t nt d h h n n h n d th p bl h d b ll t n, h t th r n f r th h n ? h n. W. S. King r pl d f ll : " h r l t d f r , b nth, f n d l t thr h tr r l t f r th l nd r r r : n r , 4 . 0 br r , 48, 6 M r h, 8,06 Apr l, , 0 M , 6 , n , 8 8, l , 48, 4 A t, 0 , S pt b r, 6, 02 O t b r, 04, v b r, 6,2 4 b r, 26, . "At th t f r l t n, th f r r pr l n r f r nd r b ntl dj t d. " h r n f r h dj t nt th t th pr l n r f r r pd t d r r t nf r t n b v l bl ."
Mr. Wallace d th n. th M n t r f E n v l p nt th f ll n t n : W th r p t t 6 r r t d nn n d n S pt b r 4— . Wh t th t r t d t f r pl t n f h f th t d ? 2. n p r n , n t th r r v n l pl , h v b n n d t p rf r h f th t d ? . Wh t th t t d t t l t f h f th t d ? h n. G. . Lauk r pl d f ll : " . All t d r h d l d f r pl t n b n 0, . "2. nt . " . h t t l t t th r v n f r t h C l b ll b ppr x t l $ 00,000." And th n th dj rn d t . 0 p. . 24 Euz. 2 MARCH 14 41
r d , M r h 4,
TEN O'CLOCK A.M.
Prayers by Mr. Karl Janzen.
On the motion of Mr. Bennett the following Bills were introduced, read a first time, and Ordered to be placed on the Orders of the Day for second reading at the next sitting after today:
Bill (No. 37) intituled The Resource Revenue Sharing Act. Bill (No. 38) intituled The Municipal Consultation Act.
Pursuant to Order, the House resumed the adjourned debate on the motion "That Mr. Speaker do now leave the chair" for the House to go into Committee of Supply.
The debate continued.
The motion was agreed to on the following division:
YEAS-31
d n C n ll df rd A r G r t Y n W b t r S nf rd t d K ll C ld r G b nn K n St v rtl S ll C rn St p h n l r W ll , . A. And r n, G. . l n v nt Str h n n
NAYS-13
G b n C rt W ll , . A. nn tt G rd ht r And r n, . A. S th S hr d r W ll Ch b t rd n M rr n
Order for Committee of Supply called. (IN THE COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY)
The Committee rose and reported progress. Report to be considered at the next sitting. Committee to sit again at the next sitting.
By leave of the House, the Hon. . G. Cocke (Minister of Health) made a statement advising that the Government had purchased the Aberdeen Private Hospital in the City of Victoria. 42 MA C 4
lv d, h t th , t t r n , d t nd dj rn d nt l 2 l p. . n M nd n xt.
6 Mr. C rt d th n. th M n t r f r n p rt nd C n t n th f ll n t n : W th r rd t th r t h C l b f rr Q n f n . Wh t th t t l t f l n th n n nd th r r f rb h n th v l d r n th nt r f 4? 2. d th t p r th l r r nd rt n n th r j r f rr th n th r t h C l b f rr fl t? h n. . M. Str h n r pl d f ll : " . C t f l n th n n , $2, 2,6 h ll nd n n r f t, $ 46,4 2. "2. C t f l n th n n t j r v l th pr d n r: M Q n f W t n t r, $2,68 ,62 h ll nd n n r f t, $ 2, 40. M Q n f rn b , $2, 0 , 4 h ll nd n n r f t, $ , 02."
66 Mr. C rt d th n. th M n t r f r n p rt nd C n t n th f ll n t n : W th r p t t G lf I l nd f rr r t . n t r v h l r rr d b t n S rtz nd lf rd rb r n th l nd r r 4? 2. n t r v h l r rr d b t n v nd Cr ft n n th r? . n t r v h l r rr d b t n n nd n rb r (d r rd n tr ff b t n nt r d t p nt n th l t nt n d r t n th r? h n. . M. Str h n r pl d f ll : " . h l rr d (S rtz t lf rd rb r , 2 , 2 . "2. h l rr d ( v t Cr ft n , , 0 . " . h l rr d ( n t n rb r , 6, 8 ."
6 Mr. C rt d th n. th M n t r f r n p rt nd C n t n th f ll n t n : W th r p t t pr v nt t r t h C l b rr f l t t n . Wh t th l t t t t d t t l t f th dd t n l b rth n nd v h l p r n r rr ntl b n nd rt n? 2. Wh n t xp t d th t th pr v nt ll b pl t d? h n. . M. Str h n r pl d f ll : " . $4,280,000. "2. End f b r ."
And th n th dj rn d t 2. p. . 24 Euz. 2 MARCH 17 43
M nd , M r h ,
Two O'CLOCK P.M.
Prayers by Mr. John Williams.
Mr. McClelland rose on a point of privilege relating to a letter referred to by him in the House on Thursday last and purporting to be from the Department of Housing.
Mr. Speaker tabled his written decision on the point of order raised by Mr. . A. Williams on March 13 as follows: Honourable Members,—The Honourable Member for West Vancouver-Howe Sound raised the question of whether the statements tabled last Thursday in the House constitute a question of privilege for determination of the House, that is, whether a prima facie breach of parliamentary privilege arises from the publication of a broadcast by a radio commentator. The question to be determined is whether, in this particular case, the broad- casted statement or the commentator offends the privileges of Parliament, or whether he interferes with the rights and immunities of individual members in the exercise of their parliamentary duties. The privileges of the House are stated in general terms in May, 16th edition, pages 42 and 43, as follows: Parliamentary privilege is the sum of the peculiar rights enjoyed by each House collectively as a constituent part of the High Court of Parliament, and by members of each House individually, without which they could not dis- charge their functions, and which exceed those possessed by other bodies or individuals. Thus privilege, though part of the law of the land, is to a certain extent an exemption from the ordinary law. When any of these rights and immunities, both of the members individually, and of the assembly in its collective capacity, which are known by the general name of privileges, are disregarded or attacked by any individual or authority, the offence is called a breach of privilege, and is punishable under the law of Parliament. Each House also claims the right to punish actions, which, while not breaches of any specific privilege, are offences against its authority or dignity, such as disobedience to its legitimate commands or libels upon itself, its officers, or its members. Such actions, though often called "breaches of privilege" are more properly distin- guished as "contempts". Beauchesne's 4th edition has a number of citations which summarize the matter of newspaper and other public charges against members: Citation 113 states: "An attack in a newspaper article is not a breach of privilege, unless it comes within the definition of privileges. . . . "Libels upon members and aspersions upon them in relation to Parliament and interference of any kind with their official duties, are breaches of the privileges of members," In paragraph 3 of citation 108 Beauchesne states: ". . but to constitute a breach of privilege they must concern the character or conduct of members in 44 MA C th t p t , nd th l b l t b b d n tt r r n n th t l tr n t n f th b n f th ." h r r th r f r t t n t b n r d: . th br d t n rn th h r t r r nd t f b r n h p t b r? 2. th tt r n t t t nd nt rf r n th th pr v l f n h n r bl b r t x r h d t fr l ? It l n l d d th t pl nt f ll d thr t , p t t n , r l b l t b r d t th rl t pp rt n t f r th d t l t v nd t t p r nd pr v l . It th d t f th Sp r t d t r n f th tt r n ll n f r nt r v nt n b f r pr d n t th n r l b n f th , . ., pr f br h r r n d t nt rp t n. It l h d t t d t r n f th tt r h b n r d t th rl t pp rt n t (see M , th d t n, p 8: "A tt r f pr v l h h l pr d n v r th r p bl b n h ld b bj t h h h r ntl r n." r r t r f d, f r x pl , h n th t n r d n d f ll n t rr n n S t rd . r n t n th 4th d t n, p 06: h Sp r f th En l h C n h v d d d th t " n rd r t nt tl t n f pr v l t pr d n v r th Ord r f th , t h ld b bj t h h h r ntl r n, nd h h l rl nv lv th pr v l f th nd ll f r t d t nt rp t n". In th br r 2 , 4, rn l f r , n th tt r f l b ll tt n th n r bl M b r f r n l , I t t d th t n th b f th p rl nt r th r t "th th t th r fl t n t nd t nt rf r th th b r p t t rr t h r h r d t ." At r nt nf r n tt nd d b v r 20 C n lth Sp r th v t n b th Sp r pr nt n p n l d n. In th rn l t p , I t d l fr C tt r p rt f th 6 r t h : Y r C tt nd th r n t n rn d th tt n t nd rd f r p l t l ntr v r r f r th pr pr t , r , r t t f p h d n p bl pl tf r t d rl nt. h r n rn d nl th th pr t t n f th r p t t n, h r t r, nd th d n f th t lf. It n th t r p t nl nd f r th t l t d p rp th t th r n rn d th p t t n n t th nd t f nd v d l b r . ( .C. 246, 6 64. It t b h n th t th nd t p n d r l t t b r h l t nd nl h l t h b r f th , n , h n p t t, th " nd t f b r n th t p t " th l n rn f th n tt r f pr v l h n b r r tt d p bl l . n t th p t t n t d t r n f th t f th t f r r l , th t , th b r n h p t b r, f nd th f ll n : h n. M n t r f n r n t pr l d l t d nd r t n 2 f th Provincial Elections Act nt l ft r S pt b r 2, 2, n r h rn n nd nr ll d M b r f th l t v A bl nt l th v n n f S pt b r , 2. r t rn f h r t f l t n S pt b r 2 , 2. At th t r f rr d t n th ll t n f th nt t r, th r n l t v A bl , t h v n b n d lv d n l 24, 2. h h rt th l t r d d n t t f r th f r t t l f l b d nt l O t b r , 2,
24 E z. 2 MA C 4 having been summoned on September 21, 1972. If one is precise, and in matters affecting the laws of Parliament precision is necessary, the matter of conduct and the allegations have to do with the honourable member before he was in fact either enrolled or summoned as a Member of the Legislative Assembly. Since privilege attaches from the date a Member of Parliament is first summoned ( May, 18th edition, page 96), attacks upon him for conduct before he was a member of the House are not therefore matters requiring the protection of the reputation of the House itself, in the words already quoted from the British Committee (H.C. 246, op. cit.). Whether the operative date of his becoming a Member of the Legislative Assembly is the day of summons of the Thirtieth Parliament, the return date of his writ of election or the first meeting of the House need not be decided since all three significant dates occurred after the events in question here.* Mr. Speaker Michener has put it aptly in House of Commons Votes and Proceedings, June 19, 1959, page 583: ". . . the House is asked to direct its Committee on Privileges and Elections: (1) To examine the actions and statements of the Honourable Member for Peel in connection with the evaluation and expropriation. (2) To report generally on these matters. (3) In particular,.to consider and report whether the conduct of the honourable member was contrary to the usages of the House, deroga- tory to the dignity of the House and inconsistent with the standards which Parliament is entitled to expect from its members. The House of Commons has concerned itself with the conduct of a member outside of the House from time to time for example where a member used his public office for private gain, has compromised his independence by taking money or has been found guilty of some scandalous crime. It is provided by law (the S n t nd f C n A t, R.S., c. 147, s. 1) in the section dealing with the independence of Parliament, that no member shall hold any office of emolument under the Crown nor enter into any contract with the Government of Canada for which any public money of Canada is to be paid on pain of forfeiting his seat. On the other hand, it is clear that many acts which might offend against the law or the moral sense of the community do not involve a member's capacity to serve the people who have chosen him as their representative nor are they contrary to the usage nor derogatory to the dignity of the House of Commons. Members of the House of Commons, like all other citizens, have the right to be regarded as innocent until they are found guilty, and like other citizens they must be charged before they are obliged to stand trial in the courts. Parliament is a court with respect to its own privileges and dignity and the privileges of its members. The question arises whether the House, in the exercise of its judicial functions with respect to the conduct of any of its members, should deprive such member
• S M , 8th d t n, p 2 4: " A rl nt n th n f p rl nt r p r d, p r d n t x d n f v r h h b r rd d l b nn n nd nd n th pr l t n. S h pr l t n ( h h d b th Q n n th dv f h r r v C n l n th n h nd, d lv n x t n rl nt nd n th th r, rd r th f r t f r th l t n f n rl nt nd pp nt th d nd pl f r t t n . h p r d, f r , nt n n nt rr n b t n th d l t n f rl nt nd th t n f t r d r n h h th r n rl nt n x t n .", nd t p 2 4, 2 : "A n rl nt n d n p r n f pr l t n d b th Q n th th dv f th r v C n l. h pr l t n h h l d lv th ld rl nt, • . . pp nt d nd pl f r th t n f th n rl nt." 46 MA C f n f th f rd nd pr v l h h v r n nj n n rt f th l nd. h nd t n h th r th r thr t t th b r r n p t t n n th nt t r t t nt r nd t h h " t nd t nt rf r th th b r p t t rr t h r h r d t ". Obv l th n. M n t r f n r n t nd r n thr t f p bl pr t n n th rt b th nt t r r n n l nd r th r th Provincial Elections Act, .S. .C. 60, r th Canada Elections Act, . 4, .S.C. 0, v n r r l n nd t . h rd n t n 2 f th Provincial Elections Act: " p nt— r d p t— f r n r p t f th l t n . . ." ll th n v r b ft d b rt t d t r n f n p d t r v n l nd d t nd ppl d rd n t th M n t r v d n t d r l n t t n r n z t n nd t n nt nd d d r l p n r n z r n t t t "p nt r d p t" n r p t f r v n l l t n. S t n f th Provincial Elections Act b r h j d l f nd n . Al l rl , th r n thr t t th n. M n t r f pr t n fr th nt t r r n n l f r n ll d v l t n f th Canada Elections Act t n 0 b r h pr t n. Wh t thr t r nt n d n th rl r n t n ? h t f th M n t r d n t r n th nt t r ll br d t h ll t n ? t t ll. h t f th M n t r d d n t l r f th tt r f r v n $200 h nt h p r n l j nt nt th t th nt t r ld br d t h nf r t n? If th t thr t, t n t r rd d b th n. M n t r h ld h v d l d n thr t t th n M r h 6 r . th ntr r t h d r t h r th M n t r n r. t h v n b n tr t d thr t t ld n t nf r t th l t d t t th r r nt th t ll d thr t n t b r t b t d p n th t d l . An nt rf r n f n nd th th r ff l d t , rd n t h n 4th d t n, t t n ( p. t. , br h f pr v l b t h tt r nn t n h bt n pr d n b f r Ord r f th f th r n t br ht b f r th pr ptl . h n t n f M r h 6 r , , b t n th nt t r nd th n. M n t r r h d , d n t n th M n t r n t t nt f l t h r d , h n nd nt rf r n th th h n r bl b r th r p t t h ff l d t , nd v n f t r , I nn t r l th t th r r nt n h t th n th t r t t n S r Er n M , th d t n, p 8. h n th r t n n b n r d n th ff r t v . h pr v l f th h v n t b n h n t b br h d b n tt r n rn n th h r t r r nd t f b r n h p t b r. h rt l r f rr d t h n t b n h n ff r t v l t p thr t f " nd nt rf r n " th th pr v l f th b r t x r h d t fr l . n ll , th rl r x h n b t n th M n t r nd th nt t r r n t r d n n v nt t t h n th ht l f f r x n t n nd nn t b r d n x pt b t f M t n n th l n th Ord r p r. An th r tt r r l t d t th v nt f l t h r d h ld b l r f d f r th r rd . If b r l v t t t nt, h nn t b v rt f th n d l n f th t l z th n f r t t nt th t h ld n t th r d l v r th r th n b b t nt v t n. If n n t n th rt n, I r nd t d f Mr. Sp r Sh ntz t t nt t p 0 nd f th br r 24, 8, rn l f th , n l r . 24 E z. 2 MA C 4
When a member has a matter of privilege to raise concerning another honour- able member he does not do so by seeking leave. If it is on the basis of a breach of privilege, he must take responsibility for raising it and must be prepared personally to press his charge by suitable motion should the Speaker find it to constitute a prima facie case. Last Thursday the Honourable Member for Saanich and the Islands seemed puzzled that I asked him whether he was making a charge and he suggested my question was out of order. To the contrary, no member is entitled to assume that obtaining leave to make a statement confers carte blanche to launch a personal attack on another member. After raising it in proper fashion he must be prepared to support his attack by a substantive motion. If the purpose of his making a state- ment were to call for a judicial inquiry (which it did) then it would have to be by Notice of Motion—not in the guise of a matter of privilege. The House vindicates its own dignity. Privileges of Parliament are not consigned to courts to determine, they are raised in the House by proper means and may, where valid, be settled by the House in a proper way, not by statements by way of leave. For guidance of members, including the Member for Saanich and the Islands, I wish to quote from the decision of Mr. Speaker Michener on June 19, 1959, Votes and Proceedings, pages 582-586, House of Commons, Canada: It has been strongly urged by some members that the House should not set in motion its power to try and to judge the conduct of a member unless such member is charged with a specific offence. It is urged further that not only must he be charged, but that he must be charged by a Member of the House of Commons standing in his place. In my view, simple justice requires that no honourable member should have to submit to investigation of his conduct by the House or a Committee until he has been charged with an offence. On the authorities it appears to be open to an honourable member to confront the House with charges against another member, implicit in documents in the possession of the House, but in my view the charge must be there. In the case before us no honourable member has taken the responsibility of making a specific charge against the Honourable Member for Peel. At page 4829 of Hansard the Honourable Member for Essex East (Mr. Martin) says of the Leader of the Opposition in whose name the motion stands: He made no charges, that is true. That is his continuous answer to the Prime Minister who repeats, "Make charges". The Leader of the Opposition said, "We have no charges to make". If there is a charge then which the Honourable Member for Peel should be called upon to meet, it has to be implied from the reasons for judgment already referred to. Did the learned judge in commenting on the evidence say or imply that the Member for Peel had been guilty of a criminal offence, perjury for example? Certainly not, and if he had it would have been his responsibility to bring the matter to the attention of the Crown for prosecution. Did he intend or imply that the honourable member's conduct was an offence against the independence or dignity of the House of Commons, about which as a former member of that House he would be cognizant and alert? He does not say so. There is no direct charge of this kind in the judge's observations about the Honourable Member for Peel, nor has any member of this House taken the responsibility him- self of saying that such a charge must be implied from such observations 48 MA C r f n h t th h r . In t d, th pp rt r f th t n n ff t, " t th tt f th r n th n f th nd th h h th b r ld b h r d". In n d r n th tt r r d b th n r bl M b r f r W t n v r S nd I t l fr Mr. Sp r r x n t nd r d n f th f n , 6 : h nd pr d r l d ff lt fr th f r f th t n pr p d b th n r bl M b r f r St. hn E t. In v , th t n h ld f ll th t n f pr v l l l n . S h t n nn t r l th t th tt nv t t h th r r n t th r h b n br h f pr v l , t t ll br h f pr v l . It h ld n t pl pr p th t tt r b nv t t d t d t r n f th r r n t br h f pr v l . h pr p d t n n f t, pl r f r n f n p p r rt l t th tt , n th tt t f nd n . h t n t t n f pr v l b t, n v , n rd n r b t nt v t n, h h, f r , n nl b v d n th l th th ppr pr t n t . In th r lt, n th n rr d n l t h r d h h ld t nt t n th pr r l t n t br h f pr v l , th r b th t n f th r d nt t r r th t t nt d n th .
G. . OW I G, Speaker
Ord r ll d f r "Or l Q t n b M b r ."
r n th t n p r d, th n. Norman Levi (M n t r f n r n r d t n h h h d b n d rl r nd, b l v f th , t bl d p f t l x r v d b th p rt nt f n r n M r h , , r rd n l t n p nt t Mr. nd Mr . K. M .
Ord r f r C tt f S ppl ll d. r nt t Ord r, th n r lv d t lf nt th C tt f S ppl . (I E COMMI EE
h C tt r nd r p rt d pr r . p rt t b n d r d t th n xt tt n . C tt t t n t th n xt tt n .
Resolved, h t th , t t r n , d t nd dj rn d nt l 2 l p. . t rr .
And th n th dj rn d t 6 p. . 24 E z. 2 MA C 8 4
d , M r h 8,
O C OCK .M.
r r b th v. L. Vose.
l v f th , th n. A. B. Macdonald (Att rn G n r l pr nt d th r t Ann l p rt f th p rt nt f th Att rn G n r l f r th r nd d b r , 4.
On th t n f Mr. Wallace, ll ( . nt t l d Election Expenses Act ntr d d, r d f r t t , nd Ordered t b pl d n th Ord r f th f r nd r d n t th n xt tt n ft r t d .
Ord r ll d f r "Or l Q t n b M b r ."
Ord r f r C tt f S ppl ll d. r nt t Ord r, th n r lv d t lf nt th C tt f S ppl . (I E COMMI EE
h C tt r nd r p rt d pr r . p rt t b n d r d t th n xt tt n . C tt t t n t th n xt tt n .
Resolved, h t th , t t r n , d t nd dj rn d nt l 8. 0 l p. . t d .
2 Mr. Bennett d th n. th M n t r f Ed t n th f ll n t n: W th r p t t h l n tr t n: Wh t th t t l p nt n th r nd d b r , 4? h n. Eileen E. Dailly r pl d f ll : " h t t l p nt n h l n tr t n n th r nd d b r , 4, ll n t b n n nt l d t d f n n l t t nt fr ll h l d tr t h v b n r v d nd n l d. It nl l th t th nf r t n ll b v l bl nt l l t n M th r."
84 Mr. Wallace d th n. th M n t r f A r lt r th f ll n t n . S n th Land Commission Act v n l A nt n Apr l 8, , h n r f l nd h v b n p r h d b th .C. nd C n? 2. Wh t th t t l pr p d f r th l nd p r h d? . Of th t t l r p r h d, h n r h v b n b ntl r z n d f r p rp th r th n r lt r l ? 0 MA C 8
h n. G. . , n b h lf f th n. . . St p h, r pl d f ll : " . A f br r 28, , 8,028 r . "2. $ 0,8 4,400. " . If r z n d r f r t h n d z n n nd r b l p d p r nt t th M n p l A t, th nd C n n r f n h l nd h v n b n r z n d . If r z n d r f r t x l d d fr th r lt r l l nd r rv p r nt t th nd C n A t, th n r `n n ."
86 Mr. W ll d th n. th M n t r f A r lt r th f ll n t n . n r lt r l nd r rv pl n h v b n ppr v d b th .C. nd C n? 2. Of th t t l r n th pl n , h n r r Cr n n d? . n ppl t n h v b n d t r n l d tr t t r v p r l fr th r lt r l l nd r rv ? 4. n n f l ppl t n h v b n b tt d t th .C. nd C n t r v p r l fr th r lt r l l nd r rv ? . n n f l pp l t th .C. nd C n h v b n b tt d t th t n nt G v rn r n C n l? h n. G. . , n b h lf f th n. . . St p h, r pl d f ll : " . nt x. "2. h nf r t n h n t b n l l t d. " . h nd C n h n pr d r l f n n h n ppl t n t r v p r l fr th r lt r l l nd r rv h v b n r v d b r n l d tr t . v r, p t br r 28, , f th ppl t n r v d b th r n l d tr t , 446 h d b n b tt d t th nd C n f r n d r t n. "4. h t n f n n f l ppl t n h v b n b tt d t th .C. nd C n t r v p r l fr th r lt r l l nd r rv ? pl t d b th f t th t n ppl nt r t n x l n r d t d th n th r rv b n h rt f f ll x l n, . ., b ppl t n f th r l t n r b n rd r nd r t n (4 f th nd C n A t. "Of th f r t 24 ppl t n f r r v l pr d b th nd C n, r d lt th r t nd r t n (4 th t x l n 6 r h ld v r f r f rth r nf r t n v n r th r d lt th r thdr n. Of th ppl t n tr t d r t f r x l n, 42 p r nt r ppr v d nd 8 p r nt r r f d. h f r d n t n l d v r l bl pp l b n p l t nd r n l d tr t nd r t n ( f th nd C n A t. "Of th f r t 2 4 ppl t n n d r d b th nd C n nd r t n (4 f th A t, 82 p r nt r ppr v d n h l r n p rt th t x l n fr th r lt r l l nd r rv nd 8 p r nt r r j t d. "Up t br r 28, , n f l ppl t n h v b n b tt d t th .C. nd C n t r v p r l fr th r lt r l l nd r rv , f x l n h n d r d th t t. If d t n f th ppl nt pl n n d r d t b th t t, 6 n f l ppl t n h v b n b tt d. t n l d d n n f l ppl t n r th n pr , p rtl ppr v d, r thdr n.
24 Eu . 2 MA C 8 "5. The appeal by a person who is dissatisfied with the decision of the Land Commission is to the Environment and Land Use Committee of Cabinet and not the Lieutenant-Governor in Council. Two requests for leave to appeal to the Environment and Land Use Committee have been received by the Land Commission and such leave to appeal was granted in one of the two instances."
101 Mrs. rd n asked the Hon. the Minister of Agriculture the following ques- tions: With respect to staff increases in the Department of Agriculture- 1. What new Department appointments have been made since September 30, 1972, to date? 2. What is the classification and the office location of these appointments? With respect to Order in Council appointments by the Minister of Agriculture as they relate to departments, commissions, committees, consultants, etc.— 1. How many have been made since September 30, 1972, to date? 2. What are the names, capacity, remuneration, and expenses allowed for each? 3. How much has been paid out to each to date? The Hon. G. . , on behalf of the Hon. . . St p h, replied as follows: "With respect to staff increases in the Department of Agriculture— "1. A total of 96 new established positions of a variety of responsibilities. "2. As of February 28, 1975:
A oi me C assi ica io O ice oca io 3 Ag icu u is 2 a g ey, Oka aga , o e y Ma ageme E gi ee A o s o , o e y Ma ageme C e k S e og a e a g ey, o e y Ma ageme C e k y is ic o ia, o e y Ma ageme A aise a g ey, o e y Ma ageme Ag icu u e O ice ic o ia, o icu u e a c a i g O ice a cou e , a Commissio a i g O ice 2 a cou e , a Commissio C e k y is 2 a cou e , a Commissio C e k S e og a e 4 a cou e , a Commissio C e k 4 a cou e , a Commissio 2 E gi ee i g Ai e a cou e , a Commissio A mi is a i e O ice 4 a cou e , a Commissio a i g O ice 2 a cou e , a Commissio Ag icu u is 8 ic o ia C e k S e og a e ic o ia e e i a ia 2 A o s o , e e i a y a c C e k 6 Ke ow a, C o I su a ce a c Ag icu u e I s ec o _A o s o , e e i a y a c 4 Ag icu u e I s ec o Ke ow a a o e a ea, C o I su a ce a c Ag icu u e I s ec o Ke ow a a o e a ea, C o I su a ce a c 2 C e k Ke ow a a o S . o , C o I su a ce a c C e k S e og a e 2 A o s o , e e i a y a c Se io O ice 2 ic o ia, a m i a ce og am Ag icu u is ic o ia, a m i a ce og am Ag icu u is ic o ia, a m i a ce og am A mi is a i e O ice 2 ic o ia, a m I come Assu a ce 2 C e k 6 ic o ia, a m i a ce og am 2 C e k ic o ia, a m i a ce og am C e k S e og a e ic o ia, a m i a ce og am Ag icu u is a g ey, o e y Ma ageme aug sma ic o ia, o e y Ma ageme C e k 6 ic o ia, o e y Ma ageme C e k y is ic o ia, o e y Ma ageme 2 MA C 8
A oi me C assi ica io O ice oca io e so e O ice ic o ia C e k S e og a e ic o ia C e k ic o ia Ag icu u is C o e a e, A ia y a c Ag icu u is ______ e o , a m Eco omics a c Ag icu u is A o s o , a m Eco omics a c 6 Ag icu u a O ice 2 i ce Geo ge, O i e , A o s o , Summe a , awso C eek, a m Eco omics a c Ag icu u is i ce Geo ge, Ke ow a, Kam oo s, ie C o s a c Ag icu u e O ice C o e a e, ie C o s a c 2 Ag icu u is ______O i e a C o e a e, o icu u e a c 2 Ag icu u e O ice C o e a e a Ke ow a, o icu u e a c Ag icu u is A o s o , i es ock a c 2 Ag icu u e O ice A o s o , ou y a c Ag icu u is Ke ow a, Soi s a c 2 Ag icu u e O ice ______Ke ow a, Soi s a c a o a o y Ai e______ u a y, ai y a c 4 Ag icu u is 2 2 i ce Geo ge, u ca , C a ook, You e e o me a c C e k y is ic o ia, You e e o me a c e e i a ia 2 Kam oo s, e e i a y a c Ag icu u e O ice C o e a e, e e i a y a c a o a o y Scie is A o s o , e e i a y a c a o a o y ec icia 2 A o s o , e e i a y a c E gi ee A o s o , E gi ee i g a c ec icia A o s o , E gi ee i g a c C e k S e og a e 2 A o s o , E gi ee i g a c C e k ic o ia, A A Ag icu u is C o e a e, E omo ogy a c "Wi es ec o O e i Cou ci a oi me s y e Mi is e o Ag icu u e as ey e a e o e a me s, commissio s, commi ees, co su a s, e c.— " . U o a ua y , , 0. "2. As o a ua y , : ame Ca aci y emu e a io
Miss . G i i Sec e a y o Mi is e ,600 (yea S. . e e so e u y Mi is e 40,848 (yea E. M. Ki g Associa e e u y Mi is e 2,004 (yea A. Mc e a E ecu i e Assis a _ ,46 (yea W. . a e C ai ma , a Commissio 8,640 (yea . C. i k ice C ai ma , a Commissio ( ay M. awso Commissio e , a Commissio 0, 0 (yea A. E. Ga is Commissio e , a Commissio ( ay E. E. a s y Commissio e , a Commissio ( ay G. G. u ka Ge e a Ma age , a Commissio 2 , 0 (yea ( O E—I ega o e e ses, ese a e o i e o i e e a me a es ima es a a e ge e a y o a se amou . " . As o a ua y , : ame emu e a io E e ses
Miss . G i i 28,440.00 l S. . e e so 0,206.00 , 20. 0 E. M. Ki g 0, 24.00 0, 0 .2 A. Mc e a 2, .00 8 .00 W. . a e 6 , 60.00 4,0 . 4 . C. i k 6, .00 , 24. 0
24 E z. 2 MA C 8
n r t n Exp n
M. n 4 , 6. 2,688. 8 A. E. G rr h 0,62 .00 , 86. 4 E. E. r b 2 , 0.00 ,66 . G. G. n ,2 .00 , . 6"
0 Mrs. Jordan asked the Hon. the Minister of Agriculture the following ques- tions: With respect to the B.C. Land Commission- 1. What lands, if any, has the B.C. Land Commission purchased between September 30, 1972, and February 16, 1975? 2. What price was paid for the acquisitions? 3. What are the legal descriptions of those lands and the acreage involved? 4. Who were the former owners? The Hon. G. V. Lauk, on behalf of the Hon. D. D. Stupich, replied as follows: "1. Between September 30, 1972, and February 28, 1975, the Land Com- mission has purchased the lands listed in the Return. "2. $10,874,400. "3 and 4. That, in his opinion, the legal descriptions of lands purchased and names of former owners should be in the form of a Return and that he had no objection to laying such Return upon the table of the House, and thereupon pre- sented such Return."
And then the House adjourned at 5.56 p.m.
d , M r h 8,
HALF-PAST EIGHT O'CLOCK P.M.
Order for Committee of Supply called. Pursuant to Order, the House again resolved itself into the Committee of Supply. (IN THE COMMITTEE)
The Committee rose and reported progress. Report to be considered at the next sitting. Committee to sit again at the next sitting.
By leave of the House, Mr. Curtis tabled copy of a letter from . E. r tt to Gary Bannerman, CKNW, Vancouver, B.C., dated March 7, 1975.
Resolved, That the House, at its rising, do stand adjourned until 2 o'clock p.m. tomorrow.
And then the House adjourned at 10.57 p.m. 4 MA C
W dn d , M r h ,
O C OCK .M.
r r b th v. R. A. McLaren.
l v f th , n th t n f th n. A. B. Macdonald, ll ( . nt t l d Public Trustee Amendment Act, 1975 ntr d d, r d f r t t , nd Ordered t b pl d n th Ord r f th f r nd r d n t th n xt tt n ft r t d .
h f ll n ll r ntr d d, r d f r t t , nd Ordered t b pl d n th Ord r f th f r nd r d n t th n xt tt n ft r t d : On th t n f th n. A. B. Macdonald, ll ( . 4 nt t l d Investment Contracts Amendment Act, 1975. On th t n f th n. A. B. Macdonald, ll ( . nt t l d Administra- tion Amendment Act, 1975. On th t n f th n. A. B. Macdonald, ll ( . 20 nt t l d Securities Amendment Act, 1975. On th t n f M . Brown, ll ( . 40 nt t l d Vancouver Charter Amendment Act, 1975.
Ord r ll d f r "Or l Q t n b M b r ."
Ord r f r C tt f S ppl ll d. r nt t Ord r, th n r lv d t lf nt th C tt f S ppl . (I E COMMI EE
h C tt r nd r p rt d pr r . p rt t b n d r d t th n xt tt n . C tt t t n t th n xt tt n .
h Ch r n f rth r r p rt d th t n Mr. McGeer's t n th t th C tt r nd r p rt pr r th C tt h d d v d d, nd r nd d th t th d v n b r rd d n th rn l f th . l v f th , n th t n f Mr. Chabot, th l r p nd d nd t Ordered th t th d v n b r rd d f ll : YEAS 6
G b n C rt And r n, . A. h ll p G rd M Cl ll nd M G r nn tt S hr d r ht r r r S th M rr n W ll Ch b t rd n 24 E z. 2 MA C 20
AYS 0 d n Ar ll df rd r n G r t Y n W b t r rtl t d K ll G b l nn K n S v Str h n S ll C rn ll n l r W ll , . A. l t n rr tt n v C n M d n ld
Resolved, That the House, at its rising, do stand adjourned until 2 o'clock p.m. tomorrow.
And then the House adjourned at 5.56 p.m.
h r d , M r h 20,
Two O'CLOCK P.M.
Prayers by the Rev. J. B. Hoave.
Order called for "Oral Questions by Members."
Order for Committee of Supply called. Pursuant to Order, the House again resolved itself into the Committee of Supply. (IN THE COMMITTEE) Without the Committee rising, the Chairman reported that, during debate on Vote 2, the Second Member for Vancouver-Point Grey had raised a matter not involved in the administrative responsibility of the Premier and Minister of Finance and was, accordingly, out of order. The Chairman's ruling was challenged. The Chairman's ruling was sustained on the following division: YEAS-30
d n C n rr tt n l r r n M d n ld l n W b t r C ld r ll n K ll rtl G r t df rd St v St p h t d K n rn G b l nn W ll , . A. And r n, G. . Str h n S ll r r l t n ll NAYS-16
G b n C rt W ll , . A. h ll p G rd M Cl ll nd And r n, . A. nn tt S hr d r ht r r r S th M rr n W ll Ch b t rd n Without the Committee rising, the Chairman reported that, during debate on Vote 2, the Member for North Vancouver-Capilano had raised a matter not involved 56 MA C 20 n th d n tr t v r p n b l t f th r r nd M n t r f n n nd , rd n l , t f rd r. h Ch r n r l n h ll n d. h Ch r n r l n t n d n th f ll n d v n: YEAS 2 d n Ar rr tt n l r r n M d n ld l n K ll C ld r ll df rd St v rtl G r t C rn St p h t d W ll , . A. And r n, G. . G b l nn r r l t n ll S ll v C n AYS 6 G b n C rt W ll , . A. h ll p G rd M Cl ll nd And r n, . A. nn tt S hr d r ht r r r S th M rr n W ll Ch b t rd n
h C tt r nd r p rt d pr r . p rt t b n d r d t th n xt tt n . C tt t t n t th n xt tt n .
Resolved, h t th , t t r n , d t nd dj rn d nt l 8. 0 l p. . t d .
And th n th dj rn d t . p. .
h r d , M r h 20,
A AS EIG O C OCK .M.
Ord r f r C tt f S ppl ll d. r nt t Ord r, th n r lv d t lf nt th C tt f S ppl . (I E COMMI EE
h C tt r nd r p rt d pr r . p rt t b n d r d t th n xt tt n . C tt t t n t th n xt tt n .
Resolved, h t th , t t r n , d t nd dj rn d nt l 0 l . . t rr .
And th n th dj rn d t 0. 2 p. . 24 E z. 2 MA C 2
r d , M r h 2 ,
E O C OCK A.M. Prayers by the Rev. H. Bredesen.
Order for Committee of Supply called. Pursuant to Order, the House again resolved itself into the Committee of Supply. (IN THE COMMITTEE)
The Committee rose and reported progress. Report to be considered at the next sitting. Committee to sit again at the next sitting.
Resolved, That the House, at its rising, do stand adjourned until 2 o'clock p.m. on Monday next.
Mr. Bennett asked the Hon. the Provincial Secretary the following questions: 1. Has the Provincial Government received any applications for subscriptions to Hansard? 2. If the answer to No. 1 is yes, what is the total number of applications received to February 18, 1975? The Hon. Ernest Hall replied as follows: "1. Yes. "2. 1,997."
8 Mr. Wallace asked the Hon. the Provincial Secretary the following questions: With regard to the publication of B.C. Government News- 1. What was the cost of production for the first two issues? 2. How many additional employees have been engaged to produce the publication? 3. What was the total number of copies printed for each of the first two issues? 4. How many requests have been received to be placed on the regular mailing list? The Hon. Ernest Hall replied as follows: "1. The cost of production for the first two issues was $3,764.71. "2. Nil. "3. There were 50,000 copies of the first issue and 52,000 of the second. "4. From the publication of the first issue, to March 3, 6,245 requests have been received to be placed on the regular mailing list. Over the past week, requests have averaged more than 200 per day. "NOTE—Three or four person-days have been necessary between issues to keep the mailing list up to date. Approximately 10 people are employed for one day per issue to handle the distribution of names placed on the list but not yet punched into the addressograph, that is to label envelopes and stuff them (these are not in the production process)."
And then the House adjourned at 12.46 p.m.