flower children District Unknown (from left, Qais Shaghasi, Pedram and Qasem Foushanji) are among the leaders of ’s “ispandi” counter- culture movement

District Unknown are at the forefront of an Afghan psychedelic and heavy metal scene that is pioneering a new underground renaissance By Daniel J. Gerstle

Photos b y Davi d Gill

52 • Rolling Stone, December 2011 Rolling Stone, December 2011 • 53 DISTRICT UNKNOWN

e’re cutting through the black, dusty night city having just attacked the NATO com- before settling on District Unknown. Like pound a week earlier, some half-expect the the actual ispandi kids, who offer bless- searching for a rock party in a secret underground police or a suicide attacker to break into ings to complete strangers while being bunker in Kabul, . Crossing the in- the club – and many would probably wel- treated like lepers, the counter-culture come a raid. musicians and artists offer powerful mes- tersection past a police checkpoint and heading Qasem grins devilishly. I do my best to sages of hope but are treated like unrepen- down an empty street, we hear a low, throbbing slam him back into the fray before getting tant sinners. an elbow in the eye from someone else. He “The smoke,” Qasem growl emanate from the basement of an apart- laughs, then slams Pedram into yet another explains, “is said to take ment building. The bass and drums softly pulsating in the victim of the mosh. Tonight is District Un- away bad things or dan- W known’s night to let go and support Adib ger, to bless a person or shadows of a silent war zone are enough to drop blood pressure, and their other friends in White Page. To- a thing. The ispandis are hasten respiration, and spark the bitter taste of adrenaline. morrow District Unknown will take the very innocent and so poor stage themselves, performing publicly for they have to work that way Descending hidden stairs into smoky, anything else in their native war zone. In a the first time without wearing masks. to provide money for home. red light we are swallowed by the thun- city so traumatized and conservative that Months before the festival, an ultra- Ispandis reflect a tragic side der of amplified guitar in Hoodies, the cemeteries have outgrown parks, where conservative student found District Un- of Afghan society, which is city’s first hard-rock club. Inside, people hash smoke fills alleyways and alcohol is known’s Facebook page and sent them a vast. As a band name, it are moshing to Afghan rock band White forbidden, where hanging out with a girl stern warning that they should stop mak- would sound kind of funny Page’s performance of System of a Down’s can destroy her reputation, and where ing modern music. Accusers had con- to many Afghan people, and “Toxicity.” Someone slams me so hard I fly music was banned under the previous gov- structed a flammable lie: that the band very low class, but I am sure across the room into a couple of journos ernment, there is nothing more exhilarat- had been receiving funds from Western- many of them would also like and split my shoe down the seam. Looking ing than pounding that tension out in re- ers to tempt the city’s youth – and girls it because it shows sympathy up before slamming back, I find the tufted hearsal, dreaming of performing at an in particular – toward sin. Fearing more towards those kids, towards that part of society.” beard of Qasem Foushanji, the tall singer, underground club filled with a screaming, false rumors, if not an actual attack, Pe- 1 2 bassist, and modern artist who, along with co-ed mob of metal heads. dram and Qasem went for help to state Qasem, as an abstract his drummer brother Pedram, and guitar- But Kabul is surrounded by close- security. They explained they were not painter whose work – like his Known Unknowns ist friend, Qais Shaghasi, are quickly be- minded fathers, radicals, and rebels only peaceful but pious, only to find that lyrics – is saturated in blacks and grays, or coming leaders in Afghanistan’s first true fighting to take the country back from the government, too, had been watching contrastingly in reds and yellows, believes (1) Pedram and counter-culture movement. moderates and re-install nationwide the band. Not sure what else to do to pro- music and art are intertwined, particular- Qasem Foushanji in Qasem, with his long arms and top- bans on music and counter-culture. Ul- tect themselves, the band took a page from ly in a people’s attempt to re-emerge after 1990. (2) Qasem and Qais Shaghasi in the a prolonged national tragedy like Afghan- heavy hair, has that way of looking both traconservative Taliban rebels and their their metal heroes, Slipknot, and decided masks they wore to intimidating and boyish at the same time. allies have been blamed for September’s to wear white masks on stage. istan’s latest war. hide their identities at He believes musicians and artists are previous gigs. (3) At compelled to find meaning in what’s hap- underground club pening around them, not simply escape Hoodies during “They turned up saying they were a metal it. This is the critical passion that sets “stealth” rock festival District Unknown and their peers apart Sound Central in from Afghanistan’s other musicians and Kabul in September, band,” says gallet. “All rock-starred up, But they didn’t artists. playing in public for the first time without “Being unrealistic and feeling surrealis- covering their faces. know how to play and did not have a single instrument.” tic in a country like Afghanistan,” Qasem 3 tells me, “doesn’t help the flavor of music. One should not sing about going out for fans, especially those who wanted to bring and both knew there was something pow- His brother, Pedram, moshing beside him, music store bombing in nearby Peshawar Within weeks of masking themselves, a coffee with a f***ing non-existent girl- hard rock back to the country. erful about performing the music, not just is a cold steel intellectual with surgical and 2010’s bombing of a pop concert in it became apparent that journalists and friend. We’ve got blood and bodies, trag- Beard began mentoring, and docu- listening to it. Qasem loved to quote lyr- wit, an Abe Lincoln beard, and knuckles Herat. They want to keep not only rock enemies alike already knew who they edy, and despair here. We have to stick to menting the rise of, Kabul Dreams. Front- ics from bands including their heroes, Slip- taped from beating the shine off cymbals musicians, but all musicians, free-think- were. Together with fellow Afghan groups what is real, and seek a solution.” ed by singer-guitarist Sulyman Qardosh, knot, on his Facebook page, believing lines and snare. Shaghasi, standing on the edge ing writers, abstract painters, punks, White Page and Face Off, blues-rock band the band write safe songs with a Califor- like “Who the f*** am I to criticize your of the crowd just drinking in the music, skaters, and street artists silenced or out Morcha, indie-rockers Kabul Dreams, ex- istrict unknown and the nia sound. Soon enough, they gained pop- twisted state of mind… /F*** this shit, I’m has the quiet stare of someone who’s try- of the country. patriate music mentors, and leagues of movement they represent con- ularity and began planning a tour outside sick of it/You’re going down/This is a war,” ing to figure out how to win a girl back local headbangers, artists, street taggers, verged this past summer thanks the country. For Beard, Kabul Dreams fit the mood of young Afghans perfectly. from a longtime enemy. t’s september and around 50 of and bloggers, District Unknown were be- to the cultural glue of Beard – the was just the beginning. He wanted to nur- When the brothers saw White City Performing together they are Dis- Kabul’s hard-rock musicians, metal ginning to see themselves as the frontline Australian punk – and his collection of ture the next step in that progression, Ka- perform, Pedram was quick to approach trict Unknown, the country’s first heavy heads, artists, and bloggers have gath- of Kabul’s counter-culture movement. Kabul rock friends. Beard, a photogra- bul’s tortured underbelly: heavy metal. Beard to ask where they might be able to metal band and pioneers of “psychedel- ered in Hoodies every night this week With tomorrow’s Sound Central festival pher, biker, graffiti artist, rock guitarist, Ever since arriving from , where the practice. The guitarist took one look at ic metal.” They want nothing more than along with foreign journalists and aid concert as their opening salvo, they aim to and filmmaker known to free-thinkers Foushanjis had sought refuge during the them and knew they’d work well with two to produce the loudest, meanest music workers to celebrate Sound Central, the claim a beachhead for freedom of expres- all over Central , is quickly becoming war, Pedram couldn’t wait to get his hands brooding guitarists named Qais Shaghasi ever performed in Afghanistan. Tonight first Afghan rock festival in 35 years and sion in one of the most conservative and Kabul’s Malcolm McLaren. He first raised and feet bloodied pounding heavy metal and Lemar Saifulla. they are banging their heads with their – since every event is announced secretly violent cities in the world. So the time has the profile of the Afghan rock scene when on a drum kit. His brother Qasem, who Saifulla had an impressive presence good friends, the younger, newer rock through texts, like a rave – the world’s first come to take a stand: either stop perform- he joined White City, a rock band made up had been painting abstract art, also loved and had mastered the attitude of Anathe- band, White Page. Singer Raby Adib de- “stealth” music festival. ing, or take off their masks. of expatriate journalists and aid workers. metal. The two had grown up learning ma, Opeth, and Zahir. After a quick jam, scends from the stage into the milieu Sound Central and Hoodies are the When White City – fronted by Ru about the Afghan superstar, Ahmad Zahir, Saifulla took vocals and rhythm guitar, to share vocals with Qasem, who grabs brainchildren of Australian filmmaker he brothers have started to Owen, a tall and sharp-witted singer- who wooed the entire region with a hybrid Shaghasi took lead guitar, Qasem discov- the mic, turns into a wolf, and lets out a and local rock Godfather Travis Beard. call the new movement “ispandi,” bassist, backed by Beard on guitar and of pop-rock with classical Afghan vocal ered bass, and Pedram was finally drum- jaded “Somewhere, between the sacred The club, with five surprise concerts this after those street urchins crowd- Andronik Stefansson, a bright and gre- stylings and who was allegedly assassinated ming with a raw, but serious, metal outfit. silence and sleep/Disorder, disorder, dis- week alone, is quickly becoming a rally- ing traffic grids in the city who cast garious drummer – began writing origi- in 1979, although the government claimed Beard mentored the group, bringing in his orrrrrrder.” ing point for those who wish to deny the spells of protection on strangers with the nal progressive punk songs like “Perfect he had died in a car crash. The brothers expat friend Archie Gallet to give pointers For District Unknown, music has been war any power over their nights. With the smoke of heated flower seeds. Qasem says 10” and “Silver Hyena,” Beard found him- had been blasting Opeth, , and on bringing the right kinds of noise out of a source of catharsis and meaning beyond crazies looming in the hills around the they considered Ispandi as a band name self the idol of a number of Afghan rock other metal bands on their headphones, their instruments.

54 • Rolling Stone, December 2011 Rolling Stone, December 2011 • 55 DISTRICT UNKNOWN

“They turned up at the door one day, take them a while to get there, but eventu- he was so upset that he asked me to feature documentary about how she re- And the kicker: “I will smash any instru- trict Unknown’s mission statement. “What all rock-starred up, long hair and black ally they will blow everybody up.” not speak with him anymore. He nearly turned to Afghanistan to reconnect ment I see.” we’re writing about,” Pedram explains, “it’s T-shirts, saying they were a metal band,” threw me out of the house.” with her family while making alterna- There has never been a beatnik, punk, fact. We use what happens here.” remembers Gallet. “But they didn’t know he kabul counter-culture The radicals, Hameed explains, “are not tive music. or hippy movement among Afghans, so “Somebody needs to be on the front- how to play and did not have a single in- movement is only just beginning against only rock music. They are against “I think that they should be bold and the Foushanjis and their peers in the new line,” Qasem adds. strument. They trashed our gear for a few to spark, but it’s already attracting music in general. But I love being with honest,” she says of Kabul’s young artists. counter-culture have no true precedents “Double horns for you,” Hussein replies. months, and then went live.” new blood. Beard and Gallet joined music. Music is a major part of my life.” “They should do it in numbers, so that it’s to learn from. The closest contemporary “I respect what you guys are doing, even “We were illiterate in music but we forces with Afghan impresario Humayun With Kabul’s musicians, painters, and a movement. People sense fear. If you ap- case is that of the Iraqi metal band, Acras- with your faces hidden. You’re putting started a band,” says Pedram about the Zadran this year to produce incubation skaters finally meeting one another and proach life fearlessly the monsters of so- sicauda, who recently connected with Dis- your lives and your families’ lives in dan- early days of District Unknown. “We projects for Kabul’s newest rock musicians collaborating on so many new projects, ciety dissolve. If we open our hearts and trict Unknown online. ger, for music.” had our first gig at our home, a house and street artists. word began to spread. Soon, Afghan jump without a net, all kinds of miracles Acrassicauda – whose story went global Mohamed Jawad, an Afghan political party that my youngest uncle threw and Beard, already playing with White musicians and artists in the diaspora, can happen.” via the VICE documentary, Heavy Metal blogger, recently wrote about the impor- then the journey of our band official- City and a co-founder of the promis- as well as performers on the world stage, Atash admits that any form of counter- in Baghdad – bravely shredded in their tance of the burgeoning music scene for ly started.” ing Skateistan project which teach- began to reach out. One of the first was culture in a place as conservative as Af- native city during the Iraq War. But after his country’s future. “Rock and alterna- “The band helped me become what I es Afghan youth how to board a half- Afghan-American rock singer, Feresh- ghanistan could be considered an act of religious zealots bombed their practice tive music fans have realized that music is am,” says Saifulla – who has since moved pipe, also led the formation of Combat ta, based in Los Angeles, whose fami- rebellion, making it potentially risky. space, the thrashers moved to the U.S. something for the soul and they are here with his family to Turkey. “When Qais Comms – an umbrella group for both ly fled Afghanistan at the beginning of “I would like to go to Afghanistan Testament guitarist Alex Skolnick, who to have fun in spite of the risks. We have and I were learning instruments we in- crisis and music media. With the lat- the war. She wanted to offer advice to someday, in the distant future, to see also offered words of hope to the Afghan had so much war in this country, rock tended to learn metal, specifically, so we ter, he began filming the early days of the bands when she heard they were be- my Grammy’s grave, to buy beautiful artists during Sound Central, was just one music is something fun that you can open were, with the Foushanji brothers, the Kabul’s rock scene, as well as the Kabul ginning to perform in public after three handmade goods, to eat up to and be yourself. The first headbangers making metal at that Knight’s motorbike club. He also nailed rockless decades. delicious food … but to audience of that music is time.” When Saifulla’s family moved to down funding for a project called Wal- “These bands have to do a lot of the play there? I’m actual- afraid of the threats but Turkey with him in tow, it was only nat- lords where punk spray taggers includ- work themselves,” Fereshta says. “On ly sort of stunned that I [they] appear at the con- ural for Qasem to step in and take his ing Beard and Qasem teach youth how the bright side, the current Afghan rock never once entertained certs because they want to place as frontman. Although Qasem was to beautify Kabul’s alleys with spray- scene – like the punk and thrash metal the idea,” she says. “Not have a good time no mat- still figuring out his vocal style, he was a painted murals, cartoons, and tags. Un- scenes of the Eighties – has its benefits, even once. It’s not a mat- ter what.” natural-born ruler of the stage. known in Kabul, street art has actually too, with sovereignty being one of them. ter of not wanting to per- As for the musicians, In District Unknown’s first recorded been welcomed in many circles, not seen Because there are no suits in the room form there. It’s more an Jawad continued, “They track, “My Nightmares,” sung by Saiful- as vandalism at all. telling you what to do, it becomes more issue of not being able to are people who said, ‘To go back there. Not until hell with it. We will do there are some serious what we want no matter changes made. It’s up- what the conservatives setting to talk about. I say.’ They are aware of the “You should nOt sing about going for coffee think being able to play danger, but they would music is a basic human rather face it than hide be- with a non-existent girlfriend,” says qasem. “we’ve got blood right they should fight hind a curtain of lies.” for, tooth and nail.” “Numb, shattered, hurt, and bodies, tragedy and despair here. stick to what is real.” cryıng, and opening up,” n shops, hotels, Saifulla recalls, about vehicles and rick- writing music amidst Ka- la and Qasem, the quartet reveal their Zadran – a huge Led Zeppelin fan – about your art and your creative expres- shaws cassettes and bul’s nerve-shredding ten- hopeful yet bloody realism. “For us,” they wanted to shape something new with Ka- sion, not someone else’s bottom line.” music are prohib- sion. “It’s never-ending; sing in Dari. “For us, there’s no Arghawan bul’s emerging talent. Partnering with Post-punk performer Zohra Atash of ‘ited,”I read a decree from SCHOOL OF ROCK that’s the truth. What we Travis Beard (left) offers some advice to District Unknown in a Kabul [a purple flower, a symbol of youth, hope, Gallet and Beard, Zadran and musi- the Brooklyn-based band, Religious to the Taliban’s religious po- studio. Beard is seen as “the Godfather” of the Afghan capital’s are screaming about can and peace]/Not even in our dreams/ cian Robin Ryczek created Sound Stud- Damn, and Los Angeles-based psych- lice during their rule from burgeoning underground arts scene. never end and it’s only get- Why? For us/Come oh brother/Plant the ies to forge alliances between the rebel- adelic rocker, Ariana Delawari – two 1994 to 2001, according ting worse day after day. seed of Arghawan over my palms/War lious rockers and some of the country’s very different singers from the Afghan to Girardet and Walter’s It’s all burning and the with each other/Away from each other/ classical musicians. Then, with support diaspora – had been crafting their con- Afghanistan: Essential Field Guide. “If global performer who helped ease Acrassi- fragments make us speak loud with rage.” Why? At last, my hope will turn into from Gallet, Zadran and Ryczek built certs, music, and videos for several years any music cassette [is] found in a shop, cauda’s transition from the Iraq war zone mourning/Why?” The Floating Room, the country’s first before discovering not only the new Af- the shopkeeper [will] be imprisoned and to the U.S. rock circuit. hat next night, the hoodies Beard was psyched to get in the studio studio devoted to hard rock and alterna- ghan counter-culture movement but also the shop locked.” “I’d expected these guys to be weary, underground rock bunker party with them, kick their asses, and see how tive music, where rockers had a home and each other. Now, like Fereshta, they are There are plenty who still believe this withdrawn and war-torn,” Skolnick says opens with Beard on the mic. “We loud they could push the amplifiers. One rock/classical hybrids could be done right. trying to figure out how to ensure it will law should be in force. On the “Afghan about Acrassicauda, in the context of the want this to be an alternative scene night, I catch Beard scolding them for “I see it as a lab where they can come, be safe enough to perform and produce Culture” Facebook group, the host posted new bands risking their lives for music in so get f***ed up on drugs and vomit in the considering bowing out on a radio inter- record and learn,” says Gallet. “And we’ll as women alongside the almost exclu- a video from Sound Central, asking peo- Afghanistan. “But that couldn’t have been corner, OK?” Cheers erupt. view. “F***ing get your instruments and release bootlegs, punk style. We have the sively male Kabul-based musicians and ple what they thought. High fives includ- farther from the truth. They were warm, Qasem enters the red light of the stage, get down there,” Beard told them. He has buzz already, and when the kids come with artists. ed: “A very progressive step!” and “What a friendly and full of humor. I’d also thought without mask, and pulls on his five-string somehow moved beyond the mentor role, a good track, we’ll make them f***in’ huge.” “At the risk of sounding arrogant,” way to play music and show the conserva- it would take time to get them to warm up bass. Pedram hops onto the stool behind leapfrogged the role of manager, and in- Whether they want – or can afford – Atash reflects. “I didn’t know there were tives and religious extremists that music to us, being from America, a nation which the drum kit. Shaghasi plugs in his gui- stead become their strict uncle. to be huge is another matter. Music is any other Afghans in ‘rock’ bands be- is back and there’s nothing they can do had launched a full-scale invasion of their tar. And their friend Naseer joins in on Gallet, like Beard, was a tough men- a risky business in Afghanistan. Hojat sides me, let alone an entire scene. I about it.” country, for reasons that they, and even keyboard. They blast the crowd with their tor, telling the band it wasn’t good enough Hameed, the guitarist in White Page, think it’s fantastic. I would have been But even tech-savvy Afghan conser- we, couldn’t understand. But these guys opening song, “My Nightmares,” and then just to be loud and to love what they were says his involvement in the band has thrilled had I known any of the musi- vatives couldn’t help but bash the move- held no prejudgements – unlike so many Qasem speaks his mind. doing, insisting they improve as musi- caused problems at home. “I spent six cians out there played more than the ment. “One heart cannot love music and in the U.S. who’d be quick to condemn “We decided today not to wear our cians. Regardless, he couldn’t help but years in music school without telling my standard wedding dance-party shit I Quran at the same time,” wrote one cor- Iraqis as ‘terrorists’ – and went against all masks,” he says. “We just said, ‘F*** it. We fall in love with what they were becoming. father,” he tells me. “He’s from a Pash- call ‘Yamaha-wave.’” respondent. Another wrote, “I’m shocked the stereotypes.” are what we are.’ We’re not the only band “District Unknown has a very advanced tun tribe and his family is kind of con- Delawari, whose first album, Lion that you ‘Muslims’ are avoiding your imam When Pedram and Qasem finally get like this. If anyone is going to say shit, just image, message and attitude, and they are servative. They are totally against music. of Panjshir, was recorded in Afghani- for something worthless shame on you.” “I the chance to talk with Acrassicauda’s say it to my face.” really into experimenting with some weird When my father found out – after six stan and mixed in the U.S. by filmmak- think that was a comedian show,” wrote drummer Marwan Hussein by Skype at a And they play. Their latest song, “My alternative music stuff,” he says. “It will years – that I had been studying music, er David Lynch, has just completed a a third, “not a concert ha ha ha ha ha.” Sound Central workshop, they lay out Dis- Dying Bride,” which [Cont. on 95]

56 • Rolling Stone, December 2011 Rolling Stone, December 2011 • 57 district unknown crowds over three weeks of Sound Central, and the band have scheduled more shows [Cont. from 57] laments a NATO attack at expat restaurants and friends’ hous- going awry during a wedding party, be- es for this winter. Their sound is evolving gins with Shaghasi pulling a long, low E- from slowed-down Slipknot metal to more string bend. Then Pedram and Qasem of a “Paranoid”-era Black Sabbath rock. come in together with a growing roar like Lester Bangs once wrote that Black a B-52 taking off. This is the dream come Sabbath, in the face of mothers’ fears of to life. Fans in the audience who have evil intentions, were actually “the first never been to a concert before are now Catholic rock band.” Sabbath’s dead- seeing their friends and allies, surround- ly power, boiling up in songs like “War ed by enemies, creating a new chapter in Pigs” and “Electric Funeral,” was a badass, Afghanistan’s cultural history. macho kind of peacenik brotherhood. “You’re inspired by your surroundings Young men full of balls and brawn, who and the people around you,” John Cale once might otherwise have grabbed a rifle and told Rolling Stone, reflecting on the Vel- run into battle, were seduced by music vet Underground’s role in America’s cultural about bombs and battles, which ultimately history. “You may not even know them, but convinced them of the errors of war. you’re inspired by the singularity of purpose. Sabbath’s metal, and the music of dubaifilmfest.com To break things down. To smash things.” bands like Slipknot and System of a Speaking for District Unknown and the Down, is, in fact, a threat to the power of ispandi movement of Afghanistan, Lemar angry fathers. It gives young men in crisis tells me, “Every act has its own place and the chance to be masculine and aggres- every word has its own situation and time. sive without having to be blindly obedi- In my opinion, all these brutal and en- ent or violent. raged genres of the music world are the District Unknown and their allies have best weapon in my country. Smooth and survived, but are still threatened by, one blank, it hits you right where it hurts. And of the longest and most brutal wars of our the pain will wake anyone from their deep time. So it is fitting they have snatched up winter sleep.” the banner of anti-war metal. The alterna- District Unknown, and others, per- tive is far more of a danger to society, de- formed safely to small but fascinated spite what the authorities may say.

from army to activist “When I see soldiers I understand. It is impossible to tell a soldier, ‘Lay down your [Cont. from 65] about the Israelis who weapon,’” he says. “So the best hope I have join them in their struggle: for those people is that when they are re- “These demonstrations that I organize leased from the army they will understand have had a positive influence over my be- what they did. It’s the only way.” liefs; they have allowed me to see peo- Segev’s younger brother is now serving ple from the other side who believe in his first year in the army. Although Marco peace and share my struggle for freedom. could not dissuade him from entering – re- Those freedom fighters have [freed their fusing to serve is tantamount to social sui- minds] from the occupation and put their cide in Israel – he has offered himself up hands in ours in peaceful demonstrations as a confidant to discuss any moral mis- against our common enemy, the occupa- givings his brother may have in the course tion. They have become friends, sisters of his military duties. It’s the closest he has and brothers. We fight together for a bet- come to allowing his life as an activist to ter future for our children and theirs.” cross over into his personal life. If his two Segev himself is still trying to clarify his worlds collide, he says, he will be excluded FILMS THAT THE TO LEAD YOU UNEXPECTED role in the solidarity movement and its ef- from everything he knows. For now, it’s a fectiveness in his own mind. And how it sacrifice he is not prepared to make. has changed him. “The more active you It’s Segev’s great hope that, someday, are, and the more you see occupation, the his double life will no longer be neces- more you remember what happened in the sary; that the physical and psychological army, for instance,” he says. “As a soldier barriers erected by Israelis and Palestin- you do not see the occupation. But as a ci- ians will begin to melt away. He imagines vilian, when you go back to those places, going to Nablus for his morning coffee and even in your head, you understand what hosting his Palestinian friends at his home occupation really is. To see a refugee camp near the beach in Tel Aviv. or to see [the Palestinians] locked up in “Maybe I am dreaming but I would re- cities or villages and [unable to leave].” ally like to see one state, one flag, one Segev isn’t optimistic about the pros- name, one anthem, a government unit- pects for an end to occupation in the near ed – Palestinians and Jews. Not promot- future. Nor does he think that Israeli sol- ing their own interests, but promoting diers will easily be persuaded to put down life, promoting peace. I think it’s doable, I their guns. He knows from experience that think it’s reachable,” he says. “Probably it a soldier lacks perspective and objectivity. is far away but it is there.”

95 Rolling Stone, December 2011 • 96