11 Jul 1997 Ministerial Statement 2711

FRIDAY, 11 JULY 1997 PAPER The following paper was laid on the table— Minister for Natural Resources (Mr Hobbs)— (A) A Proposal by the Governor in Council to Mr SPEAKER (Hon. N. J. Turner, Nicklin) read revoke the setting apart and declaration prayers and took the chair at 9.30 a.m. as State Forest under the Forestry Act 1959 of— (a) All that part of State Forest 561 AUDITOR-GENERAL'S REPORT described as Lot 10 on plan CP 907012 and containing an area of Mr SPEAKER: I have to advise the House that 3.641 hectares; today I received from the Auditor-General the Report (b) The whole of State Forest 774 on Audits of Universities and Grammar Schools for containing an area of about the financial year ending 31 December 1996. 6.1210 hectares; (c) All that part of State Forest 898 REGISTER OF MEMBERS' INTERESTS shown hachured on plan FTY 1707 prepared under the authority of the Report Primary Industries Corporation and containing an area of about 36 Mr SPEAKER: Honourable members, I lay hectares; and upon the table of the House the ninth report of the Register of Members' Interests. (B) a brief explanation of the proposal.

MINISTERIAL STATEMENT PETITIONS Foreign Tour Operators The Clerk announced the receipt of the Hon. B. W. DAVIDSON (Noosa—Minister for following petitions— Tourism, Small Business and Industry) (9.34 a.m.), by leave: It is my pleasure to announce today that I have formed a task force to investigate concerns about Cracow State School the operations of foreign tour operators in From Mrs McCauley (167 petitioners) Queensland. A number of issues regarding foreign requesting the House to ensure Cracow State tour operators have been raised with me over recent School remains open to service the needs of Cracow months. The types of concerns which have been and district families and their children. raised include: the safety risk of having tour drivers also being tour guides; tour drivers and guides not having appropriate work visas; tour operators Bribie Island State Schools requiring tour drivers and guides to take tourists only From Mr J. H. Sullivan (116 petitioners) to retail outlets which pay a commission to the tour requesting the House to place the Bribie Island State operator; tour operators charging tourists entry fees Schools (Bribie Island State Primary School, Banksia to free attractions, such as the botanical gardens; Beach State School, Bribie Island State High and tour operators using guides with limited School) in the education district of Murrumba. knowledge and experience of Queensland's natural and cultural attractions. Petitions received. Naturally, these sorts of activities, if they are occurring, have the potential to damage OVERSEAS VISIT Queensland's reputation as a tourist destination. These concerns have been raised for many years Report now, but the previous Government did nothing to Hon. R. E. BORBIDGE (Surfers Paradise— address them. It is imperative that we investigate the Premier) (9.33 a.m.): I table a report on my visit to extent to which these activities are occurring, if at all. Indonesia, Singapore and Malaysia which included I have asked that the task force report back to me by the opening of Queensland Government 31 October this year with recommendations as well representative offices in Jakarta and Central Java, as a process for the implementation of those and also the signing of an economic development recommendations. agreement between the State of Queensland and the The task force which I have formed is made up State of Johor. of representatives of the tourism industry and relevant Government bodies. They are: Mr Bob Brett, General Manager of the Gold Coast Tourism OVERSEAS VISIT Bureau as chairman; Mr David Jones, a Report representative of the Committee of Inbound Tour Operatives; Ms Angela Martinez, Marketing and Hon. S. SANTORO (Clayfield—Minister for Business Development Manager for CoachTrans Training and Industrial Relations) (9.33 a.m.): I lay Australia; Mr Hisakazu Akiyoshi, Chairman of the upon the table of the House a report of my recent Japan Tourist Association of Queensland; Mr Clinton ministerial travel to Hong Kong and China. Ward, tour guide with JTB on the Gold Coast; Mr 2712 Ministerial Statement 11 Jul 1997

Max Shephard, board member of the Inbound being printed for distribution to local authorities, who Tourism Organisation of Australia; Mr Alan Walker, will then be able to decide how they will adopt the from Ken Done; Mr Peter Colahan, General Manager scheme. I have arranged for all members to receive of Asian Connection Tours; Mr Don Phelan, Surfers advance copies of the information today. Paradise Coaches; and representatives of my Some local governments, such as the Brisbane department, Queensland Transport, the Office of City Council, have already adopted schemes which Consumer Affairs and the Federal Department of offer fee reductions based on incentives and the Immigration and Multicultural Affairs. degree of compliance. I would encourage other local My announcement today follows on from my governments to adopt the scheme which has been recommendations to the Tourism Ministers' council formulated by the department in conjunction with held in Canberra earlier this year. At that meeting I local government. I would emphasise that this is a told my counterparts from the other States that we model scheme and it is up to individual councils as to should consider licensing inbound operators as a how they wish to adopt it, either as is or with matter of priority. I have since written to my amendments. colleague the Attorney-General, Denver Beanland, on The incentive licensing scheme rewards this issue and he has agreed to ensure that it is raised businesses that achieve high standards of at the next Ministerial Council for Consumer Affairs. environmental management and encourages them to Inbound tourism is vital to every economy in continually move towards the best available practices Australia, but to Queensland most particularly. We in environmental management. Businesses qualifying need to be sure that we have the systems in place under the scheme gain a financial advantage while which will protect our reputation as a tourist the community benefits from a cleaner, safer destination. Our growing popularity with overseas environment. Those qualifying for the scheme will visitors has sparked a significant increase in the pay reduced licence fees and could also gain a number of inbound operators doing business in marketing advantage by promoting an Australia. Whilst the vast majority operate properly "environmentally friendly" or "green" image, as well as and ethically, there are always exceptions. being subject to fewer inspections and less Nonetheless, even one case is one too many. I look regulatory intervention. forward to receiving the recommendations from this In assessing environmental risk, four major task force to address these serious issues on behalf factors will be considered by the administering of the tourism industry. authority, that is, the local council. These are: the scale of activity, the level of compliance with environmental regulations, the level of compliance MINISTERIAL STATEMENT with relevant codes of practice and any "best Incentive Licensing Scheme practice" environmental management strategies used. Hon. B. G. LITTLEPROUD (Western Grades of licence available with fees reduced Downs—Minster for Environment) (9.37 a.m.), by accordingly by the administering authority will be: leave: Members of this House would be well aware of above Compliance 1, meaning world's best practice; the problems inherited by the coalition Government above Compliance 2 (regional best practice); with regard to the Environmental Protection Act Compliance 1 (licence conditions and code of introduced by the previous Labor Government. practice); Compliance 2 (licence conditions); and Through a temporary ministerial advisory committee below compliance (subject to environmental and subsequently the permanent Environmental management program). Protection Council appointed by the coalition The small-business component of the scheme Government, as well as through consultation will apply to businesses which need to be licensed between the Department of Environment and relevant under the legislation but which have a limited impact stakeholder groups, we have been addressing these on the environment and have two or fewer full-time problems. Concerns and proposals have been put to employees, or equivalent part-time employees, not me by many individual small businesses, members of counting immediate family members. Businesses this House, and organisations such as the qualifying for the licence could receive up to 50% Queensland Chamber of Commerce and Industry, reduction in licence fees and reduced regulatory the Metal Trades Industry Association and the Motor intervention, for example, fewer inspections. Trades Association of Queensland. Operators receiving a small-business licence will also The coalition Government recognised the need be able to apply for further reductions under the to reduce the financial burden on businesses, more incentive license component of the scheme. There particularly on those which pose an insignificant may be some in the business and industry sector environmental risk and have a good record of who believe the scheme, particularly the small- environmental performance. As a result, I asked business component, does not deliver enough. departmental officers to work with the Local However, taking into account the issues affecting Government Association of Queensland and several local government and the community desire for individual local council representatives to develop an environmental protection generally, I believe it does. incentive licensing scheme, including a special The main objectives of the scheme are: to move component for small businesses which pose industry attitude away from simply complying with insignificant environmental risks. I am pleased to the minimum requirements of the Act; to reduce announce that details of the model scheme have perceived inequities in licence fees, with low-risk been finalised and I will launch it today. Information is operators paying reduced licence fees, thus 11 Jul 1997 Members' Ethics and Parliamentary Privileges Committee 2713 reflecting their lower environmental threat and (1) this House notes Report No. 6 of the creating a more level playing field; to encourage Members' Ethics and Parliamentary cleaner production and continual improvement; and Privileges Committee and the to ensure that those businesses covered under the recommendation of the Committee that Act as environmentally relevant activities operate in a responses by Mr Peter Gallagher, Mr manner that maintains regional environmental values. Terry Sharples and Mr Raymond Duffy, in The fact that the Ministerial Advisory the terms set out in the report, be Committee I appointed last year to look at aspects of incorporated into Hansard; and the Act came up with 103 recommendations was an (2) the House adopt the Committee's indication of the problems with Labor's legislation. recommendation." Obviously, it will take time to implement all of them. Motion agreed to. The development of a model incentive licensing Response by Mr Peter Gallagher to remarks made scheme which can be adopted by local authorities is by the Member for Bundamba on 18 March 1997, a major step in the process of making the agreed to by Mr Gallagher and the Members' Ethics environmental protection legislation more effective, and Parliamentary Privileges Committee, in fair and practicable. I table documents relevant to accordance with a resolution of the House on 11 this scheme. October 19961 On the 18th March 1997 during the debate on matters of public interest, the Member for MINISTERIAL STATEMENT Bundamba, the Honourable Robert Gibbs MLA, Workplace Health and Safety Review made comments adverse to my reputation and the reputation of my family. Hon. S. SANTORO (Clayfield—Minister for There is no truth to Mr Gibbs' allegation that the Training and Industrial Relations) (9.42 a.m.), by estate which I inherited was built largely on World leave: On 26 June 1997, the review committee of the War II black marketeering. This statement defames Workplace Health and Safety Program presented me my father and his career as both a solicitor and hotel with their report. Honourable members would recall owner over 50 years in Queensland until his death that the review was the result of a recommendation which occurred 20 years ago. of the Kennedy inquiry. The review found that I have never donated the sum of $100,000 either in Queensland now faces around 100 traumatic one sum or in a series of donations to any political workplace deaths a year and an overall compensated party, agent or member thereof and I have never injury rate approaching one in every 25 employees. sought any reward or favour as stated. Other problems identified by the review include: During the period when I was deputy chairman of inefficient fee structures and collection; costly and the TAB and also a director of Rothwells Bank in lengthy legal procedures; shortcomings in the Australia I disclosed an interest and absented myself Division of Workplace Health and Safety's from all discussion concerning investments in Rothwells by the TAB. management structure; and a high turnover of managers and inspectors. The volume and While I was deputy chairman of the TAB between complexity of workplace laws were also found to be 1983 and 1985 all investments made by the TAB in Rothwells were with the authority of the Board and unnecessarily burdensome for business. the Chief Executive and approved by State Although I received the formal report on the Treasury. review in late June, I am pleased to advise that some The TAB never lost any money in Rothwells: in fact of the review's recommendations, which are in place it made a substantial profit. as part of the budget process, have already received The magistrate dismissing charges against me never a positive response from industry. I will shortly be said, at any time, that I did not have a clue what was taking a submission to Cabinet regarding the going on. remaining proposals in the review committee's report. The magistrate said: These issues include simplified legal processes— "We will go to the Defendant's position now. including on-the-spot fines—and a new Workplace The Defendant was a director in the company Health and Safety Board to replace the Workplace since 1982 and I suspect his only real duty Health and Safety Council. was flag waving(I do not want to say that I should like to thank all those involved in the disparagingly, but the nature of companies attracting business, getting a good profile and review for their efforts in providing an excellent all that sort of thing is very important, but it foundation for lasting improvement in Queensland's seems that he did not carry out any executive workplace health and safety performance. I table a functions." copy of the report. The Full Court of Western Australia in dismissing an appeal by the Prosecutor confirmed my conduct was devoid of any wrong doing. MEMBERS' ETHICS AND PARLIAMENTARY I deny that Mr Gibbs said to my face that I am PRIVILEGES COMMITTEE nothing more than a bludging slug on the Citizen's Right of Reply Queensland racing industry, or that I am a disgraceful person to be holding a position in a club Mr FITZGERALD (Lockyer—Leader of with great tradition. Government Business) (9.44 a.m.), by leave, without On the contrary Mr Gibbs has acknowledged on notice: I move— ABC Television that his appointment of me as "That— Deputy Chairman of the TAB, was a good one. 2714 Questions Without Notice 11 Jul 1997

My family has been associated with racing in Response by Mr Raymond Duffy to remarks made Queensland for over 120 years. by the Minister for Local Government and Planning My father and I have raced horses continuously for on 19 March 1997, agreed to by Mr Duffy and the the past 60 years. Members' Ethics and Parliamentary Privileges All of my association with racing has been on an Committee, in accordance with a resolution of the 3 honorary basis. I have served as an honorary House on 11 October 1996 member of the QTC committee since 1971. On the 19th March 1997, during a Ministerial The statements by me in the Queensland Turf Club Statement on the March 1997 local government newsletter referring to the TAB distribution of profits elections, the Minister for Local Government and under the Goss Labor Government were correct Planning, the Hon D E McCauley MLA, made according to my information and belief. comments adverse to my reputation. I deny the Minister's allegations that I was involved 1 (Statement agreed to by Mr Gallagher and the Members' Ethics and Parliamentary in peddling baseless allegations. Privileges Committee in accordance with the During the elections I did not produce any Resolution of the Queensland Legislative documents that did not have my endorsement on Assembly on 18 October 1995, reintroduced them. I did not support any such documents on 11 October 1996.) financially, nor did I physically distribute within the Burnett Shire Council any material that did not have my endorsement on it. Response by Mr Terry Sharples to remarks made by Information presented to me from the Criminal the Minister for Local Government and Planning on Justice Commission regarding their ongoing 19 March 1997, agreed to by Mr Sharples and the investigation into the Burnett Shire Council on the Members' Ethics and Parliamentary Privileges eve of the local government election was NOT made Committee, in accordance with a resolution of the public by me on 14 March 1997. House on 11 October 19962 3(Statement agreed to by Mr Duffy and the On the 19th March 1997, during a Ministerial Members' Ethics and Parliamentary Privileges Statement concerning the March 1997 local Committee in accordance with the Resolution government elections, the Minister for Local of the Queensland Legislative Assembly on 18 Government and Planning, the Hon D McCauley October 1995, reintroduced on 11 October MLA, made the following statements, that seriously 1996.) damaged my personal and professional reputation. "… the elections in some areas were marred PARLIAMENTARY CRIMINAL JUSTICE by what were undoubtedly the grubbiest, COMMITTEE nastiest smear campaigns ever witnessed at council level. Report I have been alerted also to some very nasty Hon. V. P. LESTER (Keppel) (9.45 a.m.): I lay rumours peddled on the Gold Coast, I upon the table of the House a report of the understand, by Division 12 candidate Terry Parliamentary Criminal Justice Committee titled the Sharples. Some letterboxes in some areas of "CJC's Jurisdiction over Elected Officials". I the State were flooded with unsourced leaflets commend the report to the House. making scurrilous accusations. The people responsible sat in comfort of anonymity as the people they smeared were forced to publicly MEMBERS' ETHICS AND PARLIAMENTARY defend themselves." PRIVILEGES COMMITTEE I have supplied the Hon N J Turner MLA, Speaker of Report and Submissions the Queensland Parliament, under citizen's right of reply, with a copy of all election material and Ms WARWICK (Barron River) (9.45 a.m.): I lay publications issued by me during the local upon the table of the House report No. 7 of the government election referred to by the Minister's Members' Ethics and Parliamentary Privileges statement. Committee titled "Report on the Sub Judice No election material issued by me was of a nature Convention". I commend the report to the House. I that could be construed by the Minister as "nasty also give notice that I shall move on Thursday next rumours". No complaint was received by the that the House takes note of the committee's report. returning officer, conducting the Gold Coast elections, concerning the conduct of my campaign. I also lay upon the table submissions received Rather, the campaign material issued by me, by the committee during its inquiry. I commend the contained truthful facts, authorised and based on report and the committee's recommendations to the the 1991 Report of the CJC: Inquiry into Payments House. made by Land Developers to Aldermen and Candidates for Election to the Council of the City of the Gold Coast, upon which I was entitled to rely to QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE make public statements, which I considered Mr A. Callaghan important for voters of Gold Coast City's Division 12 to be aware of, prior to election day. Mr BEATTIE (9.46 a.m.): I refer the Attorney- General to the Fraud Squad investigation into 2(Statement agreed to by Mr Sharples and the Members' Ethics and Parliamentary Privileges allegations of financial misappropriation by disgraced Committee in accordance with the Resolution former RSPCA head Allen Callaghan, and I ask: since of the Queensland Legislative Assembly on 18 this investigation began in July 1996, nearly 12 October 1995, reintroduced on 11 October months ago, is there any valid reason for this 1996.) extraordinary delay in making a decision over whether or not to charge Callaghan? 11 Jul 1997 Questions Without Notice 2715

Mr BEANLAND: I thank the member for doing enough to create jobs in this State. I ask: will Brisbane Central and Leader of the Opposition for he outline for the House the facts regarding those the question. However, I would have thought that he, claims? of all people, would have known to address that Mr BORBIDGE: The Queensland Government question to the appropriate Minister. I am certainly was greatly encouraged by the release yesterday of not that. I do not do investigations. I thought that the unemployment figures which showed a very member would be aware of that. substantial drop in the unemployment rate in Mr BEATTIE: I rise to a point of order. The Queensland from 9.7% to 8.9%. In recent weeks we Minister is misleading the House. He has the have had a concerted campaign by honourable responsibility for the Director of Public Prosecutions. members opposite in respect of the apparent failure Mr SPEAKER: Order! There is no point of of this Government to create jobs. However, I think order. that what is significant, when one analyses yesterday's figures, is not only the drop in the Mr BEATTIE: Mr Speaker, I seek your unemployment rate in Queensland but, indeed, the guidance—— performance of this State in job generation across Mr SPEAKER: Order! There is no point of Australia over the past 12 months. order. The Leader of the Opposition will resume his Mr Hamill: It's been miserable. seat. The Minister can answer the question as he sees fit. The Leader of the Opposition will ask his Mr BORBIDGE: The shadow Treasurer says second question. that it has been miserable. Let me educate the Rhodes Scholar. In the last 12 months, 55% of all Mr BEATTIE: If the Minister does not want to new jobs across Australia have been generated in answer that, I guess that is a matter for the public Queensland. And the Opposition says that is record. miserable! Mr SPEAKER: Order! I have ruled on that. I do not want comments. The Leader of the Opposition The fact is that, with 18% of Australia's will ask his second question. population, Queensland has generated 55% of new jobs across Australia in the last year. I can understand the sensitivity of honourable members South Pacific Cruise Lines opposite. I will go through their track record shortly. In seasonally adjusted terms, from June 1996 to June Mr BEATTIE: I refer the Tourism Minister to 1997, Queensland created 33,400 jobs out of a total the 9 April issue of Travelweek magazine in which of 61,100 jobs created across Australia. I would have South Pacific Cruise Lines' chief executive, Greg thought that any objective Opposition that was not a Adams, was at pains to stress that the Chancellor carping, negative Opposition that tries to talk down, Group was not involved in the cruise ship project. I sabotage and undermine economic development in table that document. I refer also to South Pacific this State at every opportunity would have at least Cruise Lines' contradictory claim in its own media had the decency to say, "That's not a bad effort: 55% release on Tuesday that "South Pacific Cruise Lines of Australia's new jobs with 18% of Australia's is owned by the Chancellor Group in the United population." States". I table that release as well. I ask: as Chancellor Group companies in New Let us consider the last 75 months—a nice York, Las Vegas, Sydney and Melbourne all deny round figure—in which there have been only five any involvement with South Pacific Cruise Lines or monthly occasions when the unemployment rate has the Brisbane cruise ship project, how can the been lower than the 8.9% that Queensland posted Minister credibly explain these contradictory yesterday. If anything, that puts into perspective the statements, and is this another example of his enormity of the job that faced this Government when slipshod administration, which is increasingly we assumed office after six long years of Labor. embarrassing Queensland's hard-earned reputation? Mr Braddy: All under us. Mr DAVIDSON: I am not aware of the articles Mr BORBIDGE: The shadow Minister said that to which the member for Brisbane Central refers. As that was all under Labor. Let us consider its record. the Minister for Tourism, this proposal was brought In the six years that Labor was in office, to my attention by officers of my department. I was unemployment in Queensland grew by 70%. In that not involved in the early discussions or negotiations context it is important to note that when the member with South Pacific Cruise Lines. I took advice from for Logan took over the Premiership of this State, the officers of my department and agreed to meet with unemployment rate was 6.7%. During the time in representatives of South Pacific Cruise Lines some office of honourable members opposite, the time earlier this year. I will contact officers of my unemployment rate rocketed through the 11% barrier department today and get the history of the on regular occasions. This graph I show to association between South Pacific Cruise Lines and honourable members is the record of Labor in Chancellor and will provide it to the honourable respect of unemployment in the six years that they member after question time. were in office. When they came to office in December 1989, 94,100 people were unemployed; when they left office, 155,700 people were Job Creation unemployed. That is a 70% increase in Mr CARROLL: I refer the Premier to unemployment. The figures speak for themselves. Opposition claims that the State Government is not The Labor Party's record in Government is one of 2716 Questions Without Notice 11 Jul 1997 selling out the workers of this State, selling out application on behalf of SPCL with the Queensland investment in this State and eroding this State's Vocational Education, Training and Employment competitive advantage over the other States. Commission for accreditation of a training course: Mr Braddy: A dishonest graph and a dishonest certificate 2 in hospitality, cruise ship operations, Premier. career start traineeship course code CSOP1. I ask: why is $2.7m being wasted on a training course that Mr BORBIDGE: The shadow Minister says is not officially accredited or recognised by either that my figures are dishonest. The figures that I Commonwealth or Queensland Government training quoted in respect of their time in office are ABS authorities? What hope do trainees who complete figures. The shadow Minister has no policy and no that unaccredited course have of getting a job in the vision. He has a record in Government of hospitality industry when the certificate or diploma unemployment increasing by 70% during the six long that they will receive is not worth the paper it is years that Labor occupied the Treasury benches in written on? Queensland. Mr DAVIDSON: I have had many discussions It is significant that practically every major and many conversations with William Angliss. I spoke economic investment that has been announced in to someone from William Angliss yesterday on the Australia over the past eight months has been telephone. He did not advise me that it had announced here in Queensland. It is significant that withdrawn from that contract. In fact, he was at the the Capital Works Program that this Government has launch on Tuesday, held downtown at SPCL. I am ramped up and committed the State to is now having not aware, as the member says, that William Angliss a very major beneficial effect in eating into the has withdrawn from the contract. Yesterday I spoke chronically high unemployment rates that this to Paul Webster from William Angliss and he did Government inherited from its predecessors. I make not—— the observation that we hear a lot from the business community, the media and people in the wider Mr Elder: Did you ask? community about the need for the Queensland Mr DAVIDSON: I did not ask, but if William Government to do more. The reality is that in job Angliss had withdrawn I am sure that he would have creation we are doing more than every other State mentioned it to me. I am sure that he would have Government put together. said, "Minister, I would like to advise you that we have withdrawn." I will ring Paul Webster again after Mrs BIRD: I rise to a point of order. The question time to put at rest the mind of the member Premier is misleading the House. He has done for Bundamba. nothing for job creation in the electorate of Whitsunday. I think we need to put that issue into context. Late last year officers of my department were first Mr SPEAKER: Order! There is no point of approached by SPCL. The departmental officers order. facilitated the proposal, which was brought to my Mr BORBIDGE: For the benefit of the attention earlier in the year. We saw a fantastic honourable member, I will repeat the official ABS opportunity not only to train 340 unemployed figures: in seasonally adjusted terms, from June 1996 Queenslanders but also to gain employment for them to June 1997, Queensland created 33,400 jobs out of through the SPCL proposal. Part of the arrangement a total of 61,100 jobs across Australia—55% of all the with William Angliss and Sarina Russo's training new jobs created in Australia. school is that, regardless of whether the SPCL I am the first to admit that I would like to see us proposal regarding the cruise ship goes ahead, those do better and that more work needs to be done. The 340 people are guaranteed jobs in the hospitality reality is that Queensland is leading the economic industry in Queensland. That is part of the proposal recovery in Australia. Queensland is leading in new and part of the commitment given to me by both investment projects in Australia. Queensland is Sarina Russo and William Angliss through my leading in terms of capital works expenditure in discussions in regard to that proposal. I saw it as a Australia. We have reports from independent fantastic opportunity to offer training to 340 economic commentaries that we are now accounting unemployed Queenslanders from the south-east for one third of all new property investment across corner. I stipulated that the training positions had to Australia. This Government's policies are starting to be directed to Queenslanders, not to people work. The Labor Party cannot cop it. The fact is that, interstate or overseas. Those positions were under six years of Labor, unemployment increased advertised through the CES. My understanding is by 70%. In Queensland in the past 12 months, we that about 8,000 applicants and 1,000 interviews have accounted for 55% of all new jobs created were involved. across the Commonwealth of Australia. I saw this proposal of SPCL in conjunction with William Angliss, the private TAFE provider of the Victorian Government, as an opportunity to provide South Pacific Cruise Lines eight weeks of solid training to 340 unemployed Mr GIBBS: I refer the Minister for Tourism to Queenslanders. I have spoken to some of those the $2.7m in Commonwealth funding allocated to people on the phone. I have had their mothers, their South Pacific Cruise Lines Pty Ltd for its eight-week grandmothers and the individuals themselves ring me training course to teach potential staff the cruise ship to complain about the continued attacks by the business. I refer also to the fact that last week, on 4 Opposition, which they regard as putting at risk an July, William Angliss 2000 Pty Ltd withdrew its opportunity for them to gain employment. 11 Jul 1997 Questions Without Notice 2717

After six years in Government, the members Government has not delivered on job creation in opposite did not even have a cruise ship strategy for Queensland, and I ask: can she inform the House of Queensland, either through the QTTC or the Office the true facts? of Tourism. It is an enormous emerging opportunity Mrs SHELDON: I thank the honourable for this State, yet when the members opposite were member for his question. Thanks to his diligence in in Government they did not even have a strategy. the north in making sure that business and industry is They did not do anything. The previous Labor well supported and supplied, I know that Government never became involved with anyone in considerable jobs growth has occurred. It continually the industry. People throughout this State have told amazes me that the Opposition is so negative and so me that when Bob Gibbs was the responsible knocking about things that are so important to Minister they could never reach him. Queenslanders, particularly young Queenslanders. Through the QTTC, we are now developing a Yesterday, instead of adopting a bipartisan approach cruise ship strategy. We have identified and saying, "Isn't it great that the unemployment rate opportunities for the strategy not only in Brisbane is dropping? Over the last 12 months, Queensland but also at the Townsville port and in Cairns. A has created more jobs than any other State", what consultancy is being carried out through Townsville did we get? Knocking, negative, whingeing, whining Enterprise Limited to facilitate a cruise ship facility in and harping. The Opposition cannot bear to see the Townsville. We are also doing some work in Cairns. I State do any good. The problem is that the am expecting to make some further announcements Opposition is politically dysfunctional and it really on other cruise ships operating out of Queensland does not know what is important for the people of within the next two or three months. this State. This Government is totally committed to I want to refer to a few important facts. exploring every opportunity in this State. The According to the ABS figures, Queensland's annual Premier has just made a statement in this place about employment growth in June was the highest of all unemployment and the fantastic news that was States in Australia. I think that is a feather in the cap released yesterday that the unemployment rate has of Queensland. In the second Borbidge/Sheldon fallen to 8.9%. That news really hurts the members Budget handed down two months ago, the forecast opposite. It really hurts little Jimmy, the member for jobs growth was 1.7%. We have exceeded that. I Capalaba, to see the unemployment rate come down. know that members of the Opposition will be very As a Government, we will continue to do whatever disappointed about that. we can to explore—— Mr Hamill: It was 1.4% for the year. Mr ELDER: I rise to a point of order. It does Mrs SHELDON: As a matter of fact, 1.8%. We not hurt me; it hurts the 16,000 people who have lost have exceeded that. The reality is that Queensland their full-time jobs. continues to outperform the national result by a huge Mr SPEAKER: Order! There is no point of margin. Also in trend terms, for four consecutive order. months the unemployment rate has fallen. This latest drop in the unemployment rate in Queensland Mr DAVIDSON: Little Jimmy from represented the biggest improvement in the Capalaba—— unemployment rate of any State in the Mr SPEAKER: Order! The Minister will refer to Commonwealth. In June alone, 14,500 jobs were the member as "the honourable member for created in Queensland. In the rest of Australia, just Capalaba". 2,500 jobs were created. Very obviously, for that job creation figure to be where it is, the coalition's Mr DAVIDSON: I advise the member for policies are working. Since the coalition took office Capalaba that this morning I received the research last year, its policies have helped create 34,000 jobs that last night I said that I was going to request from for Queenslanders. I think that is a very important my department. The next time we are in this place, I figure for our State and for our young people. Of will advise this House of the funding arrangements course, in the past 12 months under a Labor that the member put in place when he was the Government, in New South Wales 5,400 jobs were Minister. lost. That shows that coalition policies really do This Government is exploring every work. I also mention the fact that Queensland still opportunity that exists through the tourism industry carried the burden of a rapidly growing population. and through the cruise ship industry to create jobs However, its job participation rate is still the highest and employment opportunities in this State. As I said, in the nation. Queensland is cutting red tape. the SPCL proposal was part of an overall proposal Through our Capital Works Program and our through William Angliss, through the Federal incentives to small business, we are putting in place Government—DEETYA—and through Sarina Russo real jobs. to provide a solid eight-week training course to 340 I refer particularly to some figures that relate to unemployed Queenslanders. the north of the State. I know that the member for Mundingburra will be interested in this information. The number of people needing jobs in the north has Job Creation dropped dramatically; in fact, a total of 623 for north Mr TANTI: I refer the Deputy Premier, Queensland. Even in Bowen, about which we hear Treasurer and Minister for The Arts to comments the member for Whitsunday whingeing, whining and made yesterday by the Opposition that the coalition harping, there has been a drop of 6.8% in the number 2718 Questions Without Notice 11 Jul 1997 of people looking for jobs and, in Aitkenvale, 2.7%. I to do with anybody else in this House. However, if think that they are very important figures. the honourable member wants to pick on anybody in I would also like to say that, as the Minister my department he can just keep it coming, because I responsible for Women's Affairs, I am very pleased to will be here to return it. see that the female unemployment rate in Mr Elder: Is that leave with or without pay? Queensland decreased by 1% to 8.7%. Also, there Mr JOHNSON: It will be without pay. Does has been a reduction of more than 5% in the number that make the honourable member happy? Is that the of people aged 15 to 19 years seeking full-time work. question that he wanted answered? That is good. That means that, for the year to date, the number of Queenslanders aged 15 to 19 years seeking full-time jobs has decreased by more than 5,000. So this Education Queensland, Capital Works Budget Government is creating jobs for young Mr J. N. GOSS: I refer the Minister for Queenslanders. Education to the highly informative and welcome Finally, I would like to expose a bit more of the statement that he made yesterday on capital works. political hypocrisy of the Leader of the Opposition. Given repeated public claims by the Opposition that An article in the Australian Financial Review states Education Queensland would not fully expend its that the man who has said how terrible it was that this capital works allocation in 1996-97, can the Minister State had a deficit in its GFS financing now says that clarify this matter for the House? a real Budget deficit would stimulate growth. In the Mr QUINN: Education Queensland is delighted Australian Financial Review, the Leader of the to be playing its part in providing additional jobs for Opposition is reported as saying— young Queenslanders and the work force in general. "I have never accepted black and white. In the statement that I made yesterday I outlined in There are always shades of grey." detail that we had totally expended our capital works All I can say is that the Leader of the program for the last financial year and had in fact Opposition is a very grey man. He decides that he overexpended it to the tune of some $18m. In the will flip flop his policies to whatever he thinks the process, we had created approximately 4,000 jobs media of the day want to hear. The Australian for Queenslanders, or 200,000 weeks of Financial Review thinks that the Leader of the employment. Opposition is a great joke. However, I can assure the It surprises me that the Opposition—most Leader of the Opposition that this Government will irresponsibly—continued its carping about Education spread far and wide in Queensland the news that he Queensland's ability to deliver on its capital works believes in a Budget deficit and that he will create budget for the last financial year. That irresponsibility one. Of course, the Leader of the Opposition will not was born out of an answer to a question that I have the opportunity to be able to do so. provided to my opposite number in April of this year. The Opposition Education spokesman asked for a detailed explanation of all projects and where they Mr P. Lineham were up to in terms of their construction schedules. Mr ELDER: I refer the Transport Minister to the In providing that information, I took pains to inform embarrassment that the Tourism Minister has caused the member that it is usual for expenditure made in the Government by going on his rhino safari to South the second half of the financial year to be Africa, and I ask: why then is the Minister allowing significantly higher than that made in the first half. It Paul Lineham, his senior ministerial adviser of just two should also be noted that, to date, expenditure does months, to take leave from his Government duties to not necessarily equate with project status, that is, moonlight as a tourist guide on a Journeys almost invariably projects are completed well before Worldwide package tour of South African game and accounts are finalised. In other words, accounting rhino parks leaving Brisbane on 28 August and lags well behind actual construction. Consequently, returning on 21 September? considerable caution should be exercised in the analysis and interpretation of those figures. Mr JOHNSON: I have great pleasure in answering this question. I think that is a very private However, that did not stop the Opposition from matter between my media adviser, Paul Lineham, and telling the State that we would not deliver on our me. For the benefit of the honourable member for capital works program and that we were not creating Capalaba, I say to the House that when Mr Lineham jobs for young Queenslanders. A month after the was engaged as my media adviser, in the above advice was provided to my opposite number, negotiations before he took up the office he told me he was quoted in the Cairns Post as saying, "Last about this appointment and about his obligation to year they did not spend their capital works budget go to South Africa with somebody who was and in the forthcoming budget for this year they will operating a tour there. I said, "Paul, as far as I am be significantly underspent again". He made that concerned, if you want leave at that time and you statement even though we had advised that the want to uphold that obligation, that is perfectly okay figures should be treated cautiously. It should be by me. I do not want to see you disadvantage the noted that Education Queensland is a touch over agreement that you have put in place." This is a budget this financial year, as I have said. private matter between Mr Lineham and me. He will Last financial year, Education Queensland's not be paid while he is away. As far as I am budget provided $333m for capital works, which is concerned, this has nothing to do with the significantly higher than that provided by the Labor honourable member for Capalaba and it has nothing Party's last budget, which was approximately $229m. 11 Jul 1997 Questions Without Notice 2719

Despite that, in its six years in Government the Labor barrelling in his own electorate with promises that he Party never fully spent the budget for capital works knows the Minister for Education will not keep? in our schools. In the first year that the coalition was Mr QUINN: We are currently looking at in Government, we did that with a leg in the air. We possible sites for the acquisition of land in the are a touch over budget and we have created Jimboomba area. We know that we have a problem additional jobs. with the increasing enrolment pressures on the Mr Elder: A leg in the air! Beaudesert State High School. We are looking at several sites in the area, including a primary school Mr QUINN: Yes, we have done it easily, and site and an attendant high school site. Presently, we that is what rankles members opposite because they are evaluating those sites to see where the high had six years to get it right and they could not do it. school should be situated. We want to work out what The first time that this Government tried, we did it is best not only in the short term but also in the long with a leg in the air—and not a rhino leg, either! term. There are short-term and long-term needs. We The department has made some significant have not yet made an announcement about expenditures and we have attended to some purchasing any land in that particular area. pressing needs in many areas, for instance, the area of minor works—the small, niggling problems in schools that impact on the ability of staff to Department of Public Works and Housing concentrate on the main game, whether it be Budget problems with paths, the need to refurbish buildings Mr RADKE: I refer the Minister for Public or other minor matters. We have made a significant Works and Housing to an article in the Courier-Mail impact on minor works. In fact, in the last financial of 4 June this year in which the Leader of the year, this Government has spent six times as much Opposition is quoted as saying that the Government on minor works as the Labor Party spent in its last failed to spend more than $400m of its capital works year in office. allocation. Now that the financial year is over, will the Funding for maintenance projects increased by Minister inform the House as to the actual level of his $5m. For example, we have put an enormous amount department's budget expenditure? of money into removing asbestos from schools. Dr WATSON: As usual, Labor has got its sums Asbestos was removed from schools in the woefully wrong. My department delivered an end-of- electorate of the member for Yeronga. We have year budget outcome of which I am very proud. We improved teacher accommodation and, since the spent 98.8% of the budget and created 227,000 member for Whitsunday asked what capital works weeks of private sector employment in doing so. We were going on in her electorate, I might add that the fully spent the Housing budget. A major reason for significant upgrade of Bowen State High School—a not spending the Public Works budget was the net project worth $1.25m—is due to be completed in savings that we made on construction projects. October of this year. Significant capital works We fully spent $19.2m on the office facilities programs are in place in all schools across refurbishment program. We fully spent $18.2m on the Queensland. Education Queensland has spent its office accommodation program. We fully spent budget and is on track to expend fully its allocation $255m on public rental housing projects. We fully for capital works in the forthcoming budget, creating spent $27.4m on community housing projects. We many additional jobs for Queensland. fully spent $46.8m on Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander housing. We fully spent a record $52m on Jimboomba, High School maintenance to improve the condition of housing for tenants and to help address some of the backlog of Mr BREDHAUER: I have a question for the maintenance works that existed under the former Minister with one leg in the air. Government. Mr SPEAKER: Order! The honourable member In the House yesterday, it was said that we are will refer to "the Honourable Minister", whoever he or uncaring in relation to public housing. If we are she may be, or he will not be able to ask his question. uncaring, what do honourable members opposite call Mr BREDHAUER: I refer the Minister for a Labor Government which, in its last full year in this Education to the announcement by the Minister for portfolio, failed to spend $61m of its budget—61 Families, Youth and Community Care in the million job-creating dollars left unspent! That was Beaudesert Times on 19 February that the Education more than uncaring; it was unforgivable. The former Department has funded an $11m new high school at Government failed to meet its public housing Jimboomba as part of an "accelerated capital works responsibilities and it failed the unemployed. It bleats program". I refer also to a letter dated 19 June from about creating jobs for Queenslanders, yet it could local National Party branch chair Ian Milton to the not even manage a department that can directly editor of the Tamborine Times which lists the new create jobs. It cannot motivate and it cannot manage. Jimboomba high school as one of the achievements In six years, the best that Labor could do in this area of the member for Beaudesert. I table a copy of both was to spend 87% of its budget. of those documents for the benefit of the House. I We are changing the culture of the department. ask: is it a fact that the Minister for Education has Near enough is not good enough. We have got the made no such decision to site or fund a new high department moving and motivated and we have got it school at Jimboomba? When will he tell the Minister creating jobs for Queenslanders. Over the past for Families to butt out of his portfolio and stop pork- couple of weeks, while Labor has been getting down 2720 Questions Without Notice 11 Jul 1997 in the gutter waging a personal vendetta against the drivers, steel fixers, demolition plants and director-general of my department, the gutters that earthmoving equipment. Kevin Davies and his department have been worrying What the people of Queensland have seen is a about are those on the 2,000 homes that we have sound economic strategy and a Capital Works purchased or built in the past year. Home Program of some $4.3 billion. Major capital works are construction commencements are up 15% over the under way in most of the major departments. That is previous year's figures. While Labor has been poring delivering real jobs to people. Queenslanders can over hotel bills, we have been pouring concrete, see it. When they drive past the Royal Brisbane building houses, creating jobs and doing in just 12 Hospital, they see nearly 200 tradesmen—electricians months what Labor was not able to do in six years. and subcontractors—working in real jobs. They see We are meeting our obligations to the people of that happening also in Cairns, on Thursday Island Queensland. and all across the rest of the State. People are taking home pay packets in their pockets—real jobs. We are Proposed Respite Centre, Jimboomba seeing employment for concrete truck drivers and employment associated not only with the contracts Ms BLIGH: I direct a question to the Minister themselves but also the ongoing work that flows for Families, Youth and Community Care. I refer to from that—jobs for mechanics, jobs at quarries and the Minister's announcement in the Jimboomba jobs in all of the service industries providing the Times of 21 February that the Government has given truckies, demolition workers and Caterpillar operators the go-ahead for a $400,000 grant for a new respite with the backup they need. In nine short months, the centre for the aged and disabled in Jimboomba. Health Department spent $300.7m. Given that he admits that his department has no intention of funding this respite centre and given that Mr Elder: You ought to be Premier. no funds have been allocated in the Health Mr HORAN: The honourable member for Department budget as he has claimed, I table those Capalaba is renowned for the fact that he could only documents, and I ask: when will he stop misleading hang on in the Health Department for five months. He the people of his electorate by announcing non- said, "Let me out. I can't cope." Five months was existent projects from other Minister's portfolios? enough for him. He was not up to it. The only thing Mr LINGARD: This question arose in the he achieved in five months was $120,000 worth of Estimates hearing. The report of Estimates signage that was put up in the dark of night before Committee G will be debated later today, and this the 1995 election. matter should not be brought up in question time. The issue of unemployment is one of the most serious facing Australia. Is it not great to see Queensland leading the way? As the Premier said, is Health Capital Works Program it not great to see that 55% of the jobs created in the Mr GRICE: I ask the Minister for Health: can he past 12 months were created in Queensland? please outline the construction industry employment Queensland is leading the way. As Queensland leads opportunities which the coalition Government's the way, the Health Department, as will all the other Health capital works program is expected to provide departments, will spend its full allocation. It will between 1996 and the year 2000, and could he spend $554m—the greatest amount of spending on perhaps touch on the overruns in the previous hospital rebuilding ever attempted by any State in budget? Australia. That will probably deliver about 2.5 million Mr HORAN: Today, it is great to see the hours of employment. That will provide real jobs and crestfallen and ashen faces on the other side of the real pay packets for people and will again bring down House. All year long, members opposite talked about the unemployment figures. unemployment and said that the capital works program would not be reached. Today, I can tell the House some great news: we are going ahead and we Proposed Port of Brisbane Rail Link are reducing unemployment in Queensland. Mr ROBERTSON: I direct a question to the Mr Quinn interjected. Minister for Transport and Main Roads. I refer to the Minister's answer to a question from the member for Mr HORAN: To borrow a phrase, we are not Chatsworth on Wednesday regarding the proposed turning back the clock and going back to the dark old port of Brisbane rail link contained in his IRTP in days of 11% unemployment under Labor. We have which he confirmed that Queensland Rail is unemployment down to 8.9%. The trend is there. It is considering the corridor from Parkinson through all happening. southern suburbs such as Stretton, Runcorn, Kuraby Mr Hamill: No, the trend is the other way. and Eight Mile Plains, and I ask: given his admission that this corridor is under consideration by Mr HORAN: The honourable member is the Queensland Rail, why did he mislead the hundreds of most ashen faced of them all. He is the one who has petitioners protesting against the proposed freight been barking and baying, saying that the capital rail line by stating in his response to this petition works budget is not being spent. The budgets have tabled in the Parliament that the IRTP contains no been spent in Health and Education. The strategies proposal for a freight rail line through the Runcorn of the coalition Government are providing real jobs Ward, which includes Karawatha Forest? for Queenslanders. At our hospital sites around the State, there are over 50 major projects. The member Mr JOHNSON: The honourable member for should take a look at all of the concrete trucks, pile- Sunnybank is the most negative person in the House. 11 Jul 1997 Appropriation Bills 2721

The former Labor Government put the IRTP in place this place that I regard small business as being the and, yes, we launched it. I do not make any mum-and-dad operations—the small retailers, the apologies about that. We are about finding corridors corner shops, the independent tradesmen such as and planning for the next 25 years. Over the past few electricians, carpenters and builders. My view is months and years, we have seen dislocation to entirely different from that of the Liberal Party. When people's lives because of poor planning by all I go around my electorate and other parts of the Governments. While I am the steward of Transport State and hear small-business people saying that and Main Roads, we will certainly have planning. they support the Liberal Party, I often wonder why. At the moment, the port of Brisbane is In all the time that I have been in politics, I have not landlocked and it has to have an artery to make sure seen the Liberal Party show much compassion for that it will grow, be viable and commercially that side of small business. It seems to be the profitable. At the end of the day, whether the general trend that when people own a business they member for Sunnybank is arguing for a corridor believe that the Liberals are going to be their saviour. through the Karawatha State Forest, through the As I said last night in the debate, when a small- middle of Brisbane or wherever else, he is always business breakfast is held and not one Liberal is negative and obstructionist. Why does he not have a present, one has to wonder about that party's yarn to his good friend the member for Bulimba? commitment to small business. Mr Robertson: You're the Minister—come The lack of substantial policies of this clean. Government is the cause of the malaise in the small- business sector. It was mentioned in this place only Mr JOHNSON: The member should sit back yesterday that we have reached the wonderful goal and listen. of the coalition Government of undertaking 200 Mr SPEAKER: Order! The time for questions reviews. People are being reviewed out. This has expired. morning I heard the Minister announce another review. So 201 reviews have been or are being undertaken as at 11 July. I wonder what will happen APPROPRIATION (PARLIAMENT) BILL by the end of this year. Will we reach the 500 mark? APPROPRIATION BILL When will we see business regenerate? When Resumption of Committee (Cognate Debate) is this Government going to give some hope to Estimates Committee D industry and business? Probably the worst thing that has happened in the 16-month term of this Report No. 1 Government is the Sheldon freeze on capital works. Resumed from 10 July (see p. 2696). No Government member will admit it, but every Mr HOLLIS (Redcliffe) (10.31 a.m.): I rise to electorate that I know of has experienced a freeze speak to the report of Estimates Committee D. I am during which no capital works have been undertaken. going to focus on the small business aspect of the As I have said in past speeches, in the education report. I wish to commence my speech by quoting field alone in the City of Redcliffe not one capital from the Hansard of the hearings of Estimates works program has been undertaken in any school Committee D. In answer to a question from Mr Elder, since the coalition came to Government. In contrast, the Minister stated— in the six-year term of the Labor Government, capital works were undertaken each year. I believe that that "The member needs to appreciate that the is the essence of getting business on track. If the business world is ever changing. It changes on Government is not spending money and creating a daily, weekly, monthly and yearly basis." business for the suppliers to capital works projects, He went on to state further— the general malaise spreads and results in even more "As part of my commitment to business unemployment. and industry in this State, I will do everything I There are a lot of smiling faces amongst possibly can in my time as Minister to ensure Government members over the decreased that we cater for and facilitate the needs of unemployment levels. However, the bottom line on business and industry groups." the latest unemployment figures is that there will be a The philosophy behind those statements is very distinct change by the time the next lot of figures are good, and I applaud that approach. But what has the released. The Government cannot be happy that Minister done in this regard? We in the Opposition 200,000 people have stopped seeking jobs. That is have some very serious concerns about his one of the most pressing issues. There is no doubt performance to date. There is the KPMG report that that those people will once again figure in the found that the Minister has a moribund department. unemployment levels. As I said to the Minister for The business sector is currently in a state of Training—we cannot call him the Minister for depression. Every economic pundit in the Employment any more—there will be 11% newspapers is saying that we are now facing a unemployment by the end of this year. recession in business and industry. Time expired. Why is this occurring? In order to find the Hon. B. W. DAVIDSON (Noosa—Minister for answer, one has to examine first the Liberals' view on Tourism, Small Business and Industry) (10.36 a.m.): what constitutes small business. Their general view is Firstly, I acknowledge the contribution of members that a business with around 500 employees is of Estimates Committee D, particularly the Chair, Lyn classified as a small business. I have said before in Warwick. I thought her approach to the debate and 2722 Appropriation Bills 11 Jul 1997 the process was very professional and bipartisan. strategic plans that we are developing. I raised one She allowed questions and answers to develop a of those this morning—the cruise ship industry certain air of debate about them. I thought she strategic plan for Queensland. chaired the committee in an excellent manner. I In the area of liquor licensing, we have acknowledge also the Deputy Chair, the Honourable increased funding by $1m this year. We have Terry Mackenroth, and the other members of the appointed six new liquor licensing officers committee—Rob Mitchell, Marc Rowell, Jim Elder throughout Queensland: in Cairns, Brisbane, the and Bob Gibbs. Gold Coast, Rockhampton, Mackay and Mount Isa. I want to comment on some of the statements We have replaced the division's database. We have that the member for Bundamba made last night in this developed the Queensland wine project. We have Chamber. I also question the Estimates committee appointed a senior wine adviser and we aim to process. I have experienced two Estimates double the turnover of the wine industry from $17m committee processes. Enormous resources are to $34m over the next three years. We have required to be committed to the process by my increased the funding for the Olympic Task Force to department—the involvement of my staff over many, $750,000 for the next three years. As everybody many weeks and, as the honourable member for knows, we have already been successful in securing Bundamba quite rightly said, 20 or 30 staff sitting the British team and the US swim team for pre- behind the group at the front table. The cost of the Olympic training, and we are negotiating with many involvement of those resources is a matter that this other countries. Parliament should consider. There was a suggestion Also, we have launched the Regional Business last night by the Leader of Government Business and Development Scheme, for which there is $2.7m a member opposite that we should examine the very additional funding in 1997-98. Since the launch in process itself. Weeks and weeks of work go into February this year, more than $1.7m has been preparing for the committee hearings. granted to 45 projects. The KPMG report findings, Mr Palaszczuk: This is the Parliament of which members refer to in a political sense at all Queensland, remember. We are accountable to the times—— people. Time expired. Mr DAVIDSON: I understand that. I am not saying that there should not be some process in Report adopted. place, but across 18 agencies the cost to the Government and the taxpayers of this State would Estimates Committee E be quite considerable. Report No. 1 The member for Bundamba was quite right. A senior officer from my department who was sitting The CHAIRMAN: The question is— next to me at the table, through nothing more than "That Report No. 1 of Estimates human error, handed me the wrong briefing paper. Committee E be adopted." This became an issue. I wrote to the Chair of the committee and brought to her attention the fact that Mr ELLIOTT (Cunningham) (10.42 a.m.): my officer had handed me the wrong briefing paper. Before making some comments on the report of That letter was leaked and became an issue in the Estimates Committee E, I would like to take this media. I suppose that is the political process. But on opportunity to inform this House and the people of behalf of the officer, I apologise to the Parliament. It Queensland of inaccurate quotes contained in an was a human error—nothing more, nothing less. I article which appeared in the Courier-Mail dated 9 also want to acknowledge the commitment of my July 1997 titled "Angry 'Lion King' aims at animal departmental staff, led by my acting director-general, crackers" written by journalist Michael Madigan. This Steve Chapman, and Mark Bermingham, a senior article refers to the report of Estimates Committee E. officer in my department. I thank all staff right across Firstly, Mr Madigan wrote— the department, particularly the ones who were "Mr Davidson was also attacked in an present on the day. Their commitment, their estimates committee report which found he had involvement and their efforts made me very happy to not adequately informed the Primary Industries be involved with them and was something that I Minister, Trevor Perrett, about the rhino really appreciated as the Minister of the Department proposal." of Tourism, Small Business and Industry. The section of the report that Mr Madigan refers to Everyone across the State would know that we actually reads— have increased the funding of the QTTC board by $12m over three years. We have a new senior "The non-government members of the management in place as well as a new domestic committee expressed grave concern that the marketing campaign. The Government provided Minister for Tourism, Small Business and $1.25m for the North American campaign following Industry did not engage in in-depth President Clinton's visit this year. Indy, as everyone consultation with the Minister for Primary knows, was a great success for 1997. We will be Industries, Fisheries and Forestry about the announcing the dividend of this year's event in the proposed rhinoceros refuge prior to departing next week or two. We have done a lot of work in the for South Africa." department this year. We have released the tourism Secondly Mr Madigan wrote that the committee framework and the eco-tourism plan and many other found that— 11 Jul 1997 Appropriation Bills 2723

"It was 'quite extraordinary' a project which Opposition should have used that time to bring out could potentially damage Queensland's valuable information. On both sides of the Chamber there primary industries could be considered without tends to always be, in all things, too much point officers of the Primary Industries Department scoring and not enough information seeking. being informed ..." The whole process should be about seeking The journalist's inference is incorrect. The committee information, drawing out facts and figures and did not make that finding in its adopted report. That looking at the Budget. There is a terrible tendency of statement appears in the Opposition members' the part of Opposition members to just zero in on reservation report at page 21, a minority report which issues of the day rather than drawing out that was not adopted by the committee. Thirdly, Mr information. If they did not do that they would then Madigan stated— be in a much better position as an Opposition to ask "Mr Davidson told the committee he would questions of Ministers in the Chamber later on take every precaution to ensure Queensland's because of the information that they had been able grazing industry and wildlife were not put at to gain. risk." Time expired. This statement is incorrect. Mr Davidson did not Hon. T. McGRADY (Mount Isa) (10.47 a.m.): appear before Estimates Committee E and, therefore, At the outset, I want to place on record the he did not make that statement. The aforementioned Opposition's appreciation for the way in which the statement again is taken from the Opposition chairman, the member for Cunningham, presided members' reservation report at page 21, which over our Estimates committee. He was certainly fair reads— and very inclusive. I would like that recorded in "The minister assured the committee that Hansard. he would be 'taking every precaution that we The reason that we have Estimates hearings, in needed to take in Queensland to ensure that we my opinion, is to probe the activities of the various did not put our very vast livestock industries, departments and portfolios. It also allows Ministers and grazing industries in particular, at risk and to demonstrate whether they have sufficient also our unique wildlife'." knowledge of their department and portfolio. On this The Minister who is referred to in that statement is occasion, I felt that the Minister for Mines and the Minister for Primary Industries, Fisheries and Energy demonstrated a lack of knowledge of just Forestry, not the Minister for Tourism, Small what was happening in his portfolio. I want to Business and Industry. I thought that that should be instance a number of issues. Firstly, I asked a corrected because people do have the right, when question about the future of district workers' they read articles in the newspaper, to read the representatives. To be quite honest, I do not believe correct quotes. that the Minister knew what those people did. For the benefit of this Parliament, I point out that district I felt that our Estimates committee was workers' representatives play a very important and reasonably successful. I would agree, though, with vital role in the metalliferous side of the industry. It the front bench Opposition member who spoke took Peter Dent, one of the officials, to come back yesterday in saying that I really feel that we have to and give us the answers which we required. look at the Estimates committee process. In particular, I question the value of the questions that The other thing which concerned me was that, are asked before the Estimates hearings. From an as the shadow Minister, I knew that the chairman of Opposition point of view I can see that those the electricity task force had been paid $225,000 for questions have some relevance. Maybe Opposition his work during the last financial year. The Minister members should look at the various subjects that claimed—and I believe him—that he did not know. I they wish to address in the Estimates hearings and also went on to say that in the current financial year the questions that they wish to ask, send a skeletal the chairman was going to be paid $425,000. The outline of those areas to the departments and obtain Minister claimed that he did not know—and again I the information that they need on which to base their believe him. When one is handing out almost half a questions. They could then go from there with million dollars to a person, surely the Minister of the questions without notice. day—the person in charge of the portfolio—should know the amounts of money the person is being Quite frankly, some of the questions that are paid. asked by members from our side of the Chamber are in many instances of limited value, while others are Mr T. B. Sullivan: That is if they are quite valuable and quite necessary. I really think we competent. have to look hard at the whole process and also at Mr McGRADY: That is if they are competent. the cost of the process. I agree with the shadow One of the real concerns I have is about the future of Minister for Natural Resources when he says that this the electricity industry. I challenged the Minister to Parliament has the right to question the whole dispute my figures that some 2,000 of our fellow process of Government. That is what it should be Queenslanders who today work for the electricity about, but at times it falls back onto our side. It industry will be thrown on the unemployment scrap would be better if we were given a little more; if we heap. The Minister refused to deny that some 2,000 on this side took a more flexible attitude to people were going to be retrenched. Today he has questions. We asked the questions that interested an opportunity to come clean and to tell this the members of Estimates Committee E. The Parliament that that will not happen. 2724 Appropriation Bills 11 Jul 1997

On 1 July this year, the electricity industry was reform to the electricity industry, $3.7m for reforms going to be restructured. My information today is to the Mining Inspectorate, and $2.2m for mine site that some of those boards—those three new rehabilitation. Among the major issues raised was the generation boards—are still not in place on the 11th upgrading of the interconnector to New South Wales day of July. My information also states that the to take the opportunity to construct major power Minister and his staff have been running around stations to export power to the southern States. This inviting people to join these boards. One interesting will put Queensland in good stead to supply that point is that one of those people has told me that he power. has been offered a position for two years. Normally In respect to native title, which was another we offer positions for three years. This comes back issue before the committee, the committee was told to my belief that the Minister has simply cut up the that 264 mining lease applications are being assessed generation side of the industry with a view to in response to the implications of the Wik decision. privatising it. It makes sense that an offer of two The 4,601 tenures granted between 1 January 1994 years on a board, rather than three years, would fit in and 23 December 1996 which are subject to native nicely with his timing. The only difference is that title are potentially invalid as none have gone through there is going to be an election before then and, of the right-to-negotiate process. I believe that would course, the coalition will be out on its head. be of concern to all members. The prosperity of our In this restructuring, the man who was the State relies potentially on the way in which we chairman of AUSTA Electric, a man who had served handle applications for mining, because Queensland Queensland well in the mining industry and the relies heavily on the mining industry. electricity industry, is no longer a member of one of The Primary Industries Minister, Trevor Perrett, those boards. That is Mr Clive Hildebrand, a man indicated that the budget for the DPI has increased who has served this industry well. Also, Mr Keith by $10.5m from last year. I believe that the Minister Hilless, a former electricity commissioner in this and the Government should be congratulated on State, is now no longer in that industry. Queensland recognising the benefits of a strong and productive cannot afford to do without the experience of these DPI. Initiatives include the Queensland Centre for people—likewise all of those people who, over the Climatic Applications, satellite tracking of past six months, have been thrown on the Queensland fishing vessels, implementation of a new unemployment scrap heap. I have grave concerns animal welfare program, implementation of the about the future of the electricity industry in this recommendations of the sugar industry review, State. I do not believe that the Minister knows or promotion of aquaculture and fisheries development appreciates what is going on, and I believe it is a sad in rural Queensland, and the potential for exports of day for Queensland. live cattle, meat and related products to South East Time expired. Asia. Mr MALONE (Mirani) (10.53 a.m.): It is with In the program called Accelerating Aquaculture much pleasure that I rise to support the adoption of Industry Development, the Minister outlined major the report of Estimates Committee E. In doing so, I projects, which include the assessment of the congratulate the chairman and members of the potential for eel farming, pearl farming, mud crabs, committee, particularly the staff members: the oyster growing and additional research into research director, Graeme Kinnear, Alison Wishart freshwater species. Other initiatives in the and Rachelle Francis. I believe that the aquaculture industry included the issuing of 15-year Ministers—the Honourable Tom Gilmore, Minister for licences for all forms of fishing, unless special Mines and Energy; the Honourable Trevor Perrett, circumstances require a shorter period, and the the Minister for Primary Industries, Fisheries and reduced use of fishmeal in the feeding of barramundi. Forestry; and the Honourable Howard Hobbs, The Minister also informed the committee that live Minister for Natural Resources—and their cattle exports from Australia have increased from departmental staff should also be congratulated on 105,000 to 723,000 head in the past five years. the professional way in which they responded to Queensland exported 380,000 head to markets in questions asked by the committee. It was very South East Asia, which represented 62% of the heartening and encouraging to see the forthright and export trade, or $162m to Australian live cattle agreeable manner in which the current Ministers exports. discharged their duty before the committee—as opposed to the Ministers who appeared a couple of The Queensland Centre for Climatic years ago, particularly the former Primary Industries Applications aims to strengthen rural producers' Minister. I believe that we have come quite a way ability to manage the risks of Queensland's extremely since then. Of course, some of the members here variable climate. The Minister informed the committee today were not at that Estimates committee two that the centre is a joint initiative between the DPI years ago, and I just want to emphasise that we have and the DNR to manage climatic conditions and use come a long way since then. I believe that, in a management tools. The centre will help rural bipartisan way, we are heading in the right direction. producers to mitigate and avoid the harsh effects of drought. It would be true to say that the Estimates committee process is mainly due to the goodwill of Time expired. the Ministers and the knowledge that they have of Mr SCHWARTEN (Rockhampton) (10.58 a.m.): their departments. The examination of the Mines and At the outset, I congratulate the Chair of the Energy expenditure for 1997-98 was to a level of committee, the member for Cunningham, for a very $155,500,000. Major expenditure included major well-done job. I believe that, by and large, the 11 Jul 1997 Appropriation Bills 2725 committee got on quite well. It was certainly well directors of the commercial side of that industry. I supported by the staff. Some goodwill was extended urge the Minister to continue down the path of in there, and I thank the chairman for his good exploring the ability to have that species made a non- conduct of that position. commercial species and restore some management A number of issues arose at the committee of that industry to Queensland. It is worth a couple hearing. I concur with the Chair's raising of that issue of hundred million dollars a year to Queensland. I that was reported in the Courier-Mail. That was a would hate to see that industry continue in the hands dissenting report made by myself, and those of the Federal Government, because I do not believe concerns still are with me. I heard the Minister for it is managing that fishery very well at all. When I was Tourism indicate in this Chamber the other day that in Cairns recently, I observed that the indications he had a letter from the DPI stating that it supported from those charter-operated—— the rhino project. However, I believe that, from what Time expired. the Minister said at the time, there was no general Mr RADKE (Greenslopes) (11.02 a.m.): I wish support at a senior level for such a project. There to discuss the issue of exports to the Republic of could not be, because there was no proposal. When India as raised with the Minister for Primary the chief veterinary officer of Queensland indicates Industries, Fisheries and Forestry during the that he had not even been consulted about the Estimates Committee E hearing. The second biggest report that the Tourism Minister was bandying potential market in the world is India. The policies of around the State, that concern still remains. self-reliance followed by India after independence in However, I take the Minister at his word that he will 1947 have provided it with the capacity to grow continue to monitor that particular situation and quickly. The resources, entrepreneurs, gross ensure that primary producers in this State are taken domestic savings and capital formation of more than into consideration should that crackpot scheme go 20% of gross domestic product are not lacking. If any further than it currently has. As I said in this economic reforms are maintained and growth rises to Chamber last night, I am willing to bet the Tourism more than 6%, then India would play the same role Minister that it will not. I know that he does not mind for South East Asia that China plays for East Asia. a bet. He has not taken up that bet, so he obviously knows, as I do, that the proposal is sheer madness. After more than five years of economic reform, India is emerging as a more important export and The concern about the sale of Government- investment destination. Reforms have included owned abattoirs still remains with me. I am not substantial tariff reductions, step-by-step transition convinced of the transparency of that. Again, I am towards a fully convertible currency and the not suggesting that the Minister is in any way facilitation of foreign investment in a wide range of misleading us. However, I believe that the people sectors. Australia and Queensland, too, can profit. who put together that report may not be telling the The $1.5 billion bilateral trade turnover should double whole truth. As I indicated with the Eidsvold within a few years. Therefore, not sufficient attention submission, what ultimately went into the Cabinet has been given to trade with the most populous bag was not what the Eidsvold committee had capitalist market, the Republic of India. proposed. I am aware of the tensions that exist in During the Estimates Committee E hearing, I those communities about this whole business, but I took up the issue of chickpea exports to India. urge the Minister to continue to monitor this Twenty years ago, I was working as a casual farm situation, as I am still hearing rumblings from the hand around Wallumbilla, and the crops of the future general industry about how that process is going. I were chickpeas and mung beans. Today, with await the outcome of that with a great deal of sorghum ergot bacteria now reducing income from trepidation. our main summer crop, growing chickpeas is an I turn now to the matter of Mr Chris Nicholls. It attractive alternative. However, export markets have is not my habit to attack ministerial staff, because I never firmed or stabilised, as shown in the Australian have been one myself and subject to attack in the Bureau of Agricultural and Resource Economics' Parliament on a number of occasions. I do not Australian Commodity Statistics 1996 at Table 203, believe that a Minister's staff are fair game. However, which shows our major chickpea export markets as Mr Nicholls has a higher profile than I or the Minister. Bangladesh, India and Pakistan. Furthermore, the There is a need for some transparency to ensure that Australian Commodities Forecasts and Issues for the the public of Queensland's tax dollar is not being March Quarter 1997 states that chickpea import wasted while Mr Nicholls appears before the demand from India and Bangladesh is expected to Connolly inquiry and various other attendant be strong throughout 1997-1998. inquiries. I remain unconvinced that that transparency Back in 1995, pulses, including chickpeas, and exists. sugar, edible oil, buttermilk and skimmed milk The issue of live cattle exports is a continuing powder, were placed provisionally on the free import concern of the Opposition. The member for Mackay list by the Indian Government. Our main competitors will speak about that. I will make my views on the to the export trade market with the Republic of India recreational billfish industry very clear. I believe that are the United States, Germany, Japan and the marlin—both blue and black marlin—should become a United Kingdom. Our competitors use the strategy of non-commercial species in this State. I will support significant trade promotion programs in support of the Minister if he goes down that path. We have to their business interests, which work to assist manage that industry. I know that the Commonwealth exporters to make contacts and hence service India's wants to give us half and remain the managing developing markets. Also, many countries employ the 2726 Appropriation Bills 11 Jul 1997 use of visiting leaders and Ministers to promote their member for Lockyer. The shire council in that region own interests. The Chairman of Estimates Committee has submitted a number of proposals. Many of them E commented that often Minister-to-Minister level have been put up before and failed. Once again, it talks helped to open up markets. Therefore, I ask the appears to me that they have been rejected by the Minister for Primary Industries to give serious water infrastructure committee. In response, the only consideration to visiting the republics of Sri Lanka, alternative is a harebrained scheme to pump treated India, Bangladesh and Pakistan to improve our effluent from Brisbane over two mountain ranges into agricultural exports to the world's most populous the Lockyer Valley. capitalist markets. Mr FitzGerald: How much difference in height Even in this current climate of criticising is there? Have you ever heard of a siphon? overseas trade delegations, the Opposition would be Mr PALASZCZUK: Yes, but two very large hypocritical in condemning the Minister for Primary pumping stations will be needed on each mountain Industries for undertaking an overseas trade range to get the water over the range. My estimate is delegation to those nations, because after returning that that project will cost approximately $600m. from a trip to the United States, India and Indonesia, Where will the money come from? We have been the Opposition Leader, the member for Brisbane talking about National Competition Policy and user Central, was quoted in the Courier-Mail of 2 pays. September 1996 as saying that vast new opportunities exist in India. Therefore, let us seize Mr FitzGerald: Where does the water come those opportunities for the sake of gains in wealth from? and jobs for Queensland. Mr PALASZCZUK: We know where the water Mr PALASZCZUK (Inala) (11.07 a.m.): I join can come from, but where is the money going to with other members of the committee in come from? We have to be realistic. congratulating the manner in which our chairman In conclusion, I want to touch on one of the handled proceedings and the manner in which the more important points that came out of the Budget departmental staff handled themselves in giving very Estimates committee hearing, and that relates to the explicit answers to questions that were asked. consideration that DNR is giving to scrapping the However, I will beg to differ with the chairman on permit system for broad-scale tree clearing on one point. He is not too sure whether questions on leasehold land. The debate shows clearly that the notice are very relevant. I point out to the Committee department was considering this proposal even that I used many questions that I put on notice as though, during questioning at the hearing, the information for follow-up questions during the Minister went to some pains to conceal it. committee hearings. In that regard, I would not agree Departmental officers indicated clearly in the with the chairman. hearings that the Minister's resource management In the committee's report, the member for Mirani advisory council had considered the matter, had referred at length to the freeze on land transactions. discussed it with industry leaders, had examined However, I point out that in the reservations report I similar plans in New South Wales and had referred stated— the proposal to the State Trees Group. So it is obvious that this proposal is being seriously "The minister failed to adequately explain considered at high Government levels even if the why Queensland, in contrast with every other Minister believes otherwise. State, chose to freeze all lease transactions for three months following the Wik decision." Mr Hobbs: No, you are trying to refer to the fact that we have a permit system. We will always I went on to say further that Mr Hobbs tried to create have a permit system. an excuse for that by saying that Queensland had a different process from that of other States. He said— Mr PALASZCZUK: I have one minute left in which to speak. The Minister can reply during his five "'In Queensland, we believe very strongly minutes. Finally, I questioned the Minister at great that native title has been extinguished by length in relation to—— pastoral leases.'" Time expired. What the member described was a belief rather than a process. I do not believe that the business of Hon. T. J. PERRETT (Barambah—Minister for Government should be based on belief rather than Primary Industries, Fisheries and Forestry) process. (11.12 a.m.): I welcome this opportunity to comment on the report of the Legislative Assembly Estimates Mr Malone: I was only talking about mining Committee E. Firstly, I thank the whole committee, leases. including the chairman, for the able manner in which Mr PALASZCZUK: Yes. I also bring to the the committee hearing was conducted. I thank the attention of the Committee my reservations about the committee members for their cooperation. Quite Water Infrastructure Task Force report. I believe that frankly, I enjoyed the whole process. I thought that it that will create enormous problems throughout the was very well worth while in assisting not only the State in that the expectations of people all over Opposition but also everybody who has an interest Queensland have been raised to such an extent that, in these matters to find out more about the very wide when their applications for projects are finally range of issues that are covered by the department. rejected, I am sure that the Minister will be in pretty At this point, I would also like to say a big thankyou hot water. I bring that to the attention of the to my departmental staff for the able and professional Committee by referring to the electorate of the way in which they assisted me during the hearing. 11 Jul 1997 Appropriation Bills 2727

The report reaffirms the progress that the DPI is in a public forum, but I am happy to offer the shadow making under the coalition Government in service Minister a full briefing involving all the information delivery to the State of Queensland. The 1997 available. In fact, that briefing will take place this Budget shows that the Department of Primary afternoon. However, I will have to insist that the Industries remains clearly focused on its role as a briefing is on the basis of full confidentiality. rural economic development agency. The importance The suggestion that the Queensland of DPI's role in the development and expansion of Government was unaware of the opportunity to significant overseas markets has been highlighted in manage the State's billfishing industry is incorrect. our targeting of aquaculture industries and the live The Commonwealth has jurisdiction over the cattle export and beef trade. In aquaculture, we have management of the tuna and billfish fishery. initiated major projects, such as eel farming, pearl Managing the recreational sector of the fishery by farming, mud crabs, oyster growing and freshwater itself is an unworkable proposition. In fact, I have had fish species to take advantage of valuable seafood discussions with the shadow Minister on the issue markets such as South East Asia. The new initiative and it will be on the agenda of the Ministerial Council promoting aquaculture and fisheries development in on Forestry, Fisheries and Aquaculture, which will be rural Queensland will receive $1.3m in 1997-98, held in Adelaide very shortly. helping to harness the economic spin-offs such as tourism and employment for rural communities. New Time expired. initiatives in the beef industry will help develop new Mr ROBERTS (Nudgee) (11.17 a.m.): I am markets and consolidate existing ones for pleased to speak in this debate on the report of Queensland's live cattle and beef exports. Estimates Committee E. I have a strong interest in the The Queensland Centre for Climate minerals and energy field. Given my trade Applications, a joint initiative between DPI and DNR, background as an electrician and, of course, my role received DPI funding to the tune of $1.29m for 1997- as an industrial officer for the Electrical Trades Union, 98. It will strengthen producers' ability to manage the I have had quite a strong involvement with both the risks of Queensland's variable climate and provide electricity industry and the mining industry, direct benefits for the wider community. particularly metalliferous mining. The importance that we place on plant and One of the key issues that I want to address is animal health and high-quality food is evidenced in the $850m black hole that has been created jointly by the papaya fruit fly eradication program, which the Treasurer and this Minister by the irresponsible already has led to a decrease in excess of 90% of fly raid on the funds of the electricity industry. This numbers and has us well on track for the eradication matter will remain a millstone around the neck of target of the year 2000. An amount of $100,000 has Queensland Governments and the people for years been provided for further research into the bat to come. At some stage, we will have to fill up the lyssavirus, in which Queensland has led the way in massive hole in the Budget that has been created by identifying and countering while the rest of the world the Treasurer and this Minister. Of course, it has looks on. However, despite the calibre of this been suggested that we may be able to fill it up next budget, it seems that there are a few issues that the year with the sale of some Metway shares. But what Opposition members of the committee believe are about the year after that? What is happening here is outstanding. The allegation that I did not answer similar to what happened in Victoria where assets these questions satisfactorily is absolute rubbish. I were sold to fill budgetary holes. The money has to answered all questions comprehensively, factually come from somewhere. We cannot keep selling off and without contradiction and certainly to the best of the family silver or raiding the piggy bank. my ability at the time. The only way to address this problem is either to reduce spending, which in the current Questions have been raised about a rhino park environment is unlikely by any Government, higher in Queensland. At the time of the hearing, I did not taxes, a little bit of both, or more asset stripping. This have the information with me. I have since found out disgraceful legacy left to future Governments and the that, in fact, some six months ago the Department of people of Queensland is going to cause major TSBI liaised with the Department of Primary problems for future Budgets. Of course, it is more Industries and was told that the DPI had no real than likely that a Labor Government will inherit this objection to the proposal. Of course, the health mess after the next election. aspect of the proposal is the responsibility of AQIS. I have talked about how to address this matter The allegation that advice given to Cabinet on through higher taxes or reduced services. However, the Government's exit from ownership of public the Commission of Audit report may give us some abattoirs, specifically in relation to a proposal from insight as to what plans the Government has to the Eidsvold abattoir commissioning committee, is a address this problem in the future. Page 18 of the classic case of ill-informed speculation. The question summary of the Commission of Audit states— of the Eidsvold proposal is very complex and involves commercially sensitive information provided "Further reform of Queensland's energy to the steering committee in confidence. I accept the and water sectors is essential to promote interest that the Opposition has in the question. Queensland's international competitiveness, Indeed, I welcome its interest. I also accept that sustain investment and improve the State's there are vested interests that would wish to create budgetary position." confusion and to benefit from that confusion. I One wonders about the foresight of the commission. cannot provide commercial-in-confidence information It must have known or had some knowledge of the 2728 Appropriation Bills 11 Jul 1997 raid that was about to take place. The summary goes some things to each other which we might otherwise on to state— not have said. However, generally speaking, the "Commitment to the Council of Australian process is starting to settle down and people are Government's reform agenda, and greater starting to understand it. I certainly thank the private sector involvement in the electricity and chairman of the committee for the even-handed and water services is necessary." very professional way in which he handled the committee. It states further— Over the last couple of days much has been "Privatisation and structural reform of the said about the Estimates committee process. We industry will ensure competition, lock in have been following the Estimates committee anticipated benefits and provide substantial process for three years now and there are good investment funds (about $12.5 billion) for the reasons why we ought to sit down in a bipartisan State." way and try to get more sense out of what we are doing. The member for Cunningham put his finger on That is the key issue that I want to develop a it when he said that it is a process of eliciting little more in my speech. That $12.5 billion, which is information to draw out what is actually happening the net return that the Government will receive from and the reasons for it. I would be supportive of a the sale of the electricity industry—or that is what is more open process as was suggested by the calculated it will return—on these calculations would member for Cunningham, whereby Opposition return about $741m per annum to the State Budget. members provided us with some prior knowledge of The question that we need to have answered the kinds of things that they were looking for. by the Minister and the Government is: is that the Mr Hayward: Ha, ha! future means that will be used to fill this disgraceful black hole created by the Treasurer and the Minister? Mr GILMORE: We would then be better The $740m income stream, which will come from the prepared, in a cooperative sense, to provide the sale of electricity industry assets, may well be what information. The honourable member at the back we have to face in the coming years if this guffawed, but I will say this: it is the intention of Government remains in power. We all know that the Ministers to be cooperative and to provide Government wants to sell off the industry. The information to the Parliament. We are perfectly happy Minister keeps denying that, but everyone in the to do that. Members opposite should get used to the industry and most commentators throughout the idea that if a Minister chooses not to give country are saying that it is inevitable that the information, there is no way on the Lord's earth that industry will be sold off. one will force him to provide that information. However, if we had a somewhat more cooperative As I have said, this very argument was used in approach—— Victoria to justify the sell-off of many valuable assets, including the electricity industry. The Victorian Mr Bredhauer: It is a matter of accountability. Government created a massive problem in its Budget Mr GILMORE: In terms of accountability, I because it did not have an income stream to think that that would be a more useful process at the continually fund expenditure. The only answer was end of the day. Of course, that is something for the to sell off its assets to try to create an income stream future. from those sales. I predict that that is exactly what I express my appreciation to my staff for their this Government is proposing to do. The sale of the work in preparing for the committee which took long electricity industry will provide a sizeable income hours, much of it in their own time, effectively. They stream to fill the disgraceful hole that has been worked overtime for some considerable time so that created. we had sufficient information at our fingertips to Of course, there will be an avalanche of private cover any obscure questions that might arise. I also sector companies, both international and national, thank them very much for the excellent work that willing to purchase the industry when the they did on the day in providing briefing notes and Government puts it up for sale. Why would they not? answers. When I felt unable to give a comprehensive The prospects are there for very high profits, as has answer, I was more than pleased to flick it to the staff been shown internationally and in southern States who were able to provide the comprehensive where companies make significant profits from the answers, as is appropriate. running of the industry and, very importantly, they Rather than dwell on past issues, I will turn to acquire significant economic power both within the the positives in this year's budget for my portfolio. State and nationally. This is precisely why the There is much to be said about the restructuring of industry should remain in public hands, firstly, the electricity industry, which has already been because of the substantial income stream and, mentioned in the House today. I am sad to say that, secondly, because of the significant economic even following briefing after briefing, Opposition power it generates. members still simply do not understand the process. Hon. T. J. G. GILMORE (Tablelands— There are no secrets in what we are doing. I offer Minister for Mines and Energy) (11.22 a.m.): I begin Opposition members a further comprehensive by thanking the members of Estimates Committee E. briefing about the electricity industry, where we are This year, the cooperative nature of the committee going with it and the processes that we have in was somewhat advanced on that of last year. There place. I would be more than happy if Opposition were a couple of moments, of course, when we said members avail themselves of that offer. 11 Jul 1997 Appropriation Bills 2729

Following the dreadful disaster at Moura, we believe that the company, Nippon Meats, was always undertook, as did the previous Government, to fulfil going to close the Merinda plant. The union and its our obligations in respect of mine safety. We have members were the scapegoats. Mr Azuma, Vice- done that. This year we have allocated a $3.7m boost president of Nippon Meats, advised Mr Tony Hogg, to the Mines Inspectorate, which means that we are Queensland Trade Commissioner in Japan, that now spending $6.1m a year on the inspectorate. Of because the workers had rejected a package which course, the Moura process is nearing completion. would have resulted in a 15% reduction in wages, the This year we have allocated $1.3m to complete company had no choice. The workers were willing to the Gympie shaft capping process begun by the forgo the 23% wage increase they had achieved previous Government. We have allocated $800,000, under enterprise bargaining, but local management on top of $200,000 allocated at the mid-year review demanded much more than the 15% as indicated by last year, to begin that process in Charters Towers. Mr Azuma to the Queensland Trade Commissioner at their meeting in Tokyo on 13 May 1997. I table the The process of mine rehabilitation is ongoing in relevant documents. the areas that need it, where it becomes the The Minister's Government did nothing to help Government's responsibility. This year, $1m has been these workers. The real reason for the closure is that allocated to rehabilitate the old tailings dam at live cattle exports are affecting the throughputs at Herberton. I thank the people at Great Northern processing plants. Meatworkers in my electorate who Mining for their contribution to that particular effort. work at the Nippon Meats Bakers Creek plant are Receiving funding for the environment as part of the very concerned about their future in light of the base funding of our budget has been an enormous decision of the company to close down the sister stride forward for environmental management in the plant in Merinda. It is all very well to be promoting State, particularly in respect of the mining industry. exports through increasing trade in live cattle, but we In conclusion, I thank the chairman and the must ensure that there is an adequate supply of committee members. cattle for the export meat processing industry. Mr MULHERIN (Mackay) (11.27 a.m.): It is with A strategy of "we don't give a damn what pleasure that I rise to speak to the Report of happens outside the farm gate" is selling this State Estimates Committee E on Primary Industries. Firstly, short. Thousands of jobs are at stake. We need to I congratulate all involved in the process on the way value-add in the processing of meat. We need to that they conducted themselves. target the niche markets of northern Asia and the The Minister's response to questioning middle classes of Indonesia and the Philippines. We regarding the sale of Government-owned abattoirs is need to educate them that processed meat is more unsatisfactory. The Estimates Committee report hygienic and of a better quality than the meat states, "People who have concerns should wait for purchased "fresh" at the wet markets where cattle are the final outcome." The Minister's comments have killed in unhygienic conditions. done nothing to allay the fears of cattle producers, We need to regulate at a national level against workers and their communities about the future of the possibility of transfer pricing occurring. If the the meat processing industry in this State. practice of transfer pricing exists, not only are our The June quarterly ABARE forecasts and issues producers and workers losing, the Federal publication states that in the 1997-1998 financial year Government is also losing valuable revenue. The the cattle industry is estimated to be worth $2,195m Minister may argue that higher cost structures have in export value to the national economy. Exports in made the industry uncompetitive. But workers in the processed meat are expected to increase slightly by industry understand the need to lift competitiveness. 2.4% from 700 kilotons in 1996-97 to 717 kilotons in We have seen that they are more than willing to 1997-98. Live cattle exports will increase by 8.6% negotiate on a fair basis. The Minister has to from 755,000 in 1996-97 to 820,000 in 1997-98. In remember that the international meat market is fickle. fact, live cattle exports will have dramatically Quality and hygiene need to be maintained at all increased from 73,082 in 1980 to well over 1.2 million times. cattle by the turn of the century. In the short to Australia has the know-how to achieve and be medium term, this trend will continue. Most of the live the world's best. But the Minister just cannot blindly cattle exports have come from northern Queensland pursue cost cutting and hope to maintain our market and go mainly to Indonesia and the Philippines. The share. The meat industry needs to be modernised. export of live cattle and the drought have impacted Investors need to recognise the potential of the meat on throughput at processing plants and have made processing industry and have the confidence to some unviable. As a result, some northern meatworks invest. A future Beattie Labor Government will be have closed in recent years. working hard to return this industry to its proper In May, the Merinda plant near Bowen closed. place. This has had a devastating effect on the community Hon. H. W. T. HOBBS (Warrego—Minister and the local economy with 400 jobs disappearing. for Natural Resources) (11.32 a.m.): From the outset, Local management blamed the meat workers' union I take the opportunity to commend the Chairman and and the workers for not accepting a package which members of Estimate Committee E for the conduct of would have resulted in a significant reduction in the hearing in relation to my portfolio. The wages and conditions. Management argued that constructive attitude of committee members unless this happened the plant was unviable and provided an opportunity to explore my department's would close. I do not accept this explanation. I Estimates and performance in an effective manner. 2730 Appropriation Bills 11 Jul 1997

I also take the opportunity to thank the Queensland; we are better. Therefore, we believe management team of my department for their that we have more right in relation to those leases professional briefing prior to the hearing and for their extinguishing native title. That is why we and the contribution during the hearing. That was very previous Government believed that. important. The questioning of my department's In that context, the report also refers to some Estimates this year covered a wide range of topics confusion about the new administrative arrangements and gave an opportunity for my senior officers and reflecting the situation in other States. I am sure that me to give detailed information on issues of members opposite will recall the change in increasing importance to Queenslanders. I trust that administrative arrangements in April 1997 which this information will allow the people of Queensland transferred the responsibility for native title to the to better understand the directions that this new Department of the Premier and Cabinet. This action department is taking and the services that are brought the responsibility for this policy area in line available to them. with the administrative arrangements in other States. Although the formative period has passed, the The member for Inala also mentioned the Water DNR needs to continue to concentrate on Infrastructure Task Force and said that some will consolidating the gains and achieving best practices miss out on development and, therefore, he has in all areas so that its role and relevance to the some concerns and reservations about the whole Queensland community can grow. This year's budget concept of water development in Queensland. Sure, will assist in this. In particular, the development of some will miss out, but a hell of a lot will gain. In fact, facilities such as the Torres Strait Islands water more will gain than miss out. infrastructure, waste water reuse, and the south-west strategy will bring substantial benefits to During the next 12 months, my department will Queenslanders from the eastern seaboard to the further improve the focus of its service on client inland border communities. needs and Government priorities. It will continue to emphasise innovation and continuous improvement, Of particular importance is the joint project with continually streamlining work practices and DPI to improve our ability to manage the impact of processes, developing responsive and responsible climate variability on rural industry. As to the policy and driving outcomes tailored to the development of the Queensland Centre for Climate Government's directions and client needs. Applications—I am sure that with a revival of talk about the inevitable El Nino recurrence, all members Time expired. will recognise that this initiative is both timely and Hon. K. W. HAYWARD (Kallangur) innovative. (11.37 a.m.): I welcome the opportunity to speak in In their reservations statement, the Opposition respect of Estimates Committee E in this Estimates members of Estimates Committee E raised the issue debate. I have had the opportunity to read the report of the Queensland Government's freeze on lease as presented and I take the opportunity to transactions following the Wik decision. The report congratulate all members who participated in its suggests that the freeze was based on a "system of preparation, in particular the staff who wrote the belief". That is true, as since 1993 the State was report, which was a particularly readable document. operating on the firm belief that pastoral leases In this debate, I wish in particular to focus on extinguished native title. This "system of belief" was one of the matters raised in that report, the in effect initiated by the former Federal and Department of Mines and Energy AIRDATA project. Queensland Labor Governments. Following the Wik That is an important project which will be a significant decision, it became critical to re-examine this belief contributor to the department's Geo Map 2005 and ensure that leasehold transactions were made program, which as the name suggests is a program to within the law that prevails. ensure that all maps of significant prospective areas Had the State continued to process in Queensland will be upgraded by that date. That transactions under the process put in place by the program has been ongoing for some time. The aim of former Labor Government, some of those the project is to increase the prospectivity of areas transactions may have been invalid. So to continue of Queensland. As we all realise, that is certainly no to carry on with land transactions as if nothing had guarantee that any exploration activity that may be happened and without a proper understanding of the conducted because of that program will be post Wik legal situation would not have been a successful. As we would all know, exploration is a responsible management of this State's natural risky business. resources. Moreover, to do so may have exposed The aim of this project is to allow more specific the Government and Queensland taxpayers, in the targeting for mineral commodities, including gold and worst case scenario of the State issuing invalid base metals. The purpose of the AIRDATA project is leases, to considerable liability. to improve the knowledge of the geology of Basically, the member for Inala said that we in Queensland. It is particularly important because it Queensland are no different from other States; allows more accurate mapping of prospective rock therefore, why should we do anything different from areas so that people are able to target their activities the other States. Leases issued in Queensland do better. Importantly, it allows the department to take not include the right to hunt and gather and traverse. advantage of improved technology in mapping The leases in other States do include the right to techniques. Those map revisions will result in better hunt and gather and traverse. Therefore, the position targeted exploration and returns. As we all know, in Queensland is different. We are always different in huge costs are associated with mineral exploration. 11 Jul 1997 Appropriation Bills 2731

Of course, those revised maps will offer no satisfy everybody in every way. That was guarantees. However, that will mean some direct appreciated. On the odd occasion when somebody income to the department through exploration felt that further details were needed, they obligingly rentals, levies and so on, as that money flows into gave them. In addition to that, there were offers— the department. In addition, there will be indirect and not too many, because both Ministers knew what income. This is where the department plays a they were talking about pretty well, I thought—to significant role. Exploration expenditure obtain further information, and I understand that that commitments will be set out, because any mining information was quite readily available. I express my exploration permit must detail proposed exploration appreciation to the departmental officers. They at all expenditure. Importantly, that can lead to significant times did their very best to answer the questions regional and economic employment opportunities for they were asked. One or two of them got into a bit of any target area. When a resource is located in an area hot water, but that is the way things go. and that resource later proves to be viable, there can I have to say that at all times good manners be a significant regional employment opportunity and prevailed on the part of members of the committee. income producing opportunity for an area. That is the We are members of Parliament and we—— role of the AIRDATA program. One of the major outcomes proposed through the program is Mr Bredhauer: Except the bloke down the increased gold exploration. To that end, the back with the mobile phone. department attended the Australian Gold Conference Mr LESTER: I am talking about the committee in Kalgoorlie in March, where the AIRDATA program members, of whom the member is one. At all times was specifically highlighted. Some interest was good manners prevailed on both sides—on the part shown in the program. of the committee and on the part of those answering As I have said before, Queensland is a the questions. People do not have to brawl and carry significant gold producer. In the 1995-96 financial on; they can achieve more by being persistent, doing year, this State produced 28 tonnes of gold, carried their best to answer questions and asking good, out exploration worth some $50m, which is a searching questions. On behalf of the committee, I significant amount of money, and produced a thank Mr Peach and Mr Thatcher. They made their demonstrated resource that now is held in this State officers readily available to answer questions. I thank which exceeds 247 tonnes of gold. Significantly, all the other staff present also. I thank the committee north-west Queensland attracts the highest members—the Honourable Paul Braddy, Mr Hegarty, investment in exploration and mining for gold and Mr Bredhauer, Mr Tanti and Mr Roberts. I thank also gold/copper. We now have in Queensland a major Louise Hepworth, the research director, Andrea income and job-generating industry on which Musch and Cassandra Adams, the executive considerable expenditure has been incurred to assistant. improve the exploration data, and the results speak It has been suggested from time to time that we for themselves. should undertake an objective review of the It concerns me that the coalition Government Estimates process. I am led to believe that it is and the Mines Minister in particular have not costing departments thousands upon thousands of condemned the Treasurer Costello supported dollars to get ready for the Estimates hearings. But Reserve Bank sell off of two-thirds of Australia's gold we have to balance that with the ability to query what reserves. The silence from this Government, is being done. Sometimes the hearings bring out especially the Mines Minister, has been terribly interesting pieces of information. The process has disappointing. It leads to serious questions which the objective of keeping everybody aboveboard and need to be answered by him. totally honest. But I believe it behoves us all to Time expired. consider whether a special bipartisan committee of the Parliament should be set up to examine the Reported adopted. process to see whether we can do it better and more Estimates Committee F cost effectively and, at the same time, achieve a little Report No. 1 bit more. The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr J. N. As to the Education Department—I was very Goss): The question is— impressed to learn of the initiatives being undertaken, particularly those relating to the people delivering "That Report No. 1 of Estimates education in rural areas. I believe that those initiatives Committee F be adopted." will result in better education outcomes. Hon V. P. LESTER (Keppel) (11.42 a.m.): Our committee was particularly robust. We had a number As to the Department of Training and Industrial of meetings, but at all times commonsense prevailed. Relations—additional funding of $11m has been So intrusive were we and so much attention did we allocated to address the training needs and skill pay to those little details that, I am very happy to shortages throughout the State. say, there has been no dissenting report. I think we Time expired. were the only committee that was able to achieve Mr BREDHAUER (Cook) (11.48 a.m.): One of that result, yet I believe we achieved a lot. That the issues that was raised in the context of Estimates shows that we can do things together without having Committee F was the current dispute between the an all-in brawl. Government and the Queensland Teachers Union In my view, at all times Ministers Quinn and over enterprise bargaining and, in particular, the issue Santoro gave detailed answers and did their best to of Leading Schools. Members would probably be 2732 Appropriation Bills 11 Jul 1997 aware that following an initiative of the Queensland One of the other key issues that came out of Teachers Union the department and the union have the Estimates debate was the falsehoods that were entered into a formal mediation process which is told by the Treasurer when referring to teacher currently under way. As part of that process, the numbers. In the report it says that the Minister said— Director-General, Frank Peach, wrote to all schools "He added that it was a mistake to view the on 4 July. In part, in his letter he stated— 1,022 teacher numbers as gross additional to "The parties have already commenced the the total number of departmental staff ... " process of mediation and a condition of this The Minister is absolutely correct. He has basically arrangement is that the parties commit to said that the Treasurer misled the Parliament. I know avoiding public comment and controversy. I am that the Opposition Leader said yesterday that he determined to honour this commitment and would be writing to the Speaker to ask that she be advise that I will be personally involved in this referred to the Members' Ethics and Parliamentary mediation process." Privileges Committee. I think that that is the I welcome the commitment of the director-general to appropriate course of action. honouring his side of the bargain in respect of One of the other key issues that came out of keeping out of the press during the cooling-off Estimates Committee F was the fact that the director- period before the formal mediation occurs. In a general took sponsored hospitality from the similar spirit and vein, the Queensland Teachers Computer Curriculum Corporation on an overseas Union sent out a news flash to all schools dated 8 trip. We subsequently received an apology from the July. In part, it states— director-general for misleading the Parliament. I think "It is customary to suspend public there are still more questions to be answered here. comment and publicity campaigns during He says that he did not sign a contract with CCC; he mediation processes. Accordingly the Union signed a contract with Telesystems, but Telesystems and the Department have agreed to suspend is nothing more than the distributor of the CCC public comment on the dispute in the lead up to product. CCC has a financial gain from the contracts the mediation and during the mediation with Education Queensland and schools, and the process, effectively a period of two weeks until director-general has accepted sponsored hospitality the week ending 18 July." from that company. I suspect that we are going to hear more about this in the future, because CCC Once again I applaud the commitment and the spirit gets a direct benefit from the contracts that have of the Queensland Teachers Union in terms of been signed between Education Queensland and honouring the commitments that it has given to keep individual schools, and—— the issues related to enterprise bargaining out of the media for a period of two weeks so that we can have Time expired. a process of cooling off and so that hopefully we can Mr HEGARTY (Redlands) (11.53 a.m.): I would then get on with the job of negotiating a settlement. like firstly to endorse the chairman's remarks about Imagine my surprise then when on 8 July the the cooperative and amicable way in which all Minister launched a press release about Leading members of the committee conducted themselves Schools, which is probably the most contentious again this year—it was the same membership as last issue in the whole enterprise bargaining negotiations. year—and yet we still managed to probe and It just seems to me that the Queensland Teachers question the Ministers and their staff as to how they Union and the Education Department are prepared to were going to expend their budgets for this year for enter into the spirit of the mediation process, but the their respective departments. Minister, who has done more to inflame this dispute The Reading Recovery Program, which is part during the course of the negotiations this year—the of the Education budget, is one that I thought was a Minister who has done more to frustrate the pretty good initiative following on from last year. It is processes of negotiations where compromises have an intervention program which delivers individual been made, in my view, on both sides to try to bring specialised daily support from a highly trained the dispute closer to resolution; the Minister who in a teacher to children who require additional support in ham-fisted way blunders into the process of staying reading and writing. This is something that has been out of the media—launches a media statement about brought up from time to time—I guess for some Leading Schools, which is the most critical issue at years now—about the lack of literacy and the need this stage in the negotiations save for the actual to get back to the three Rs. I think this is a good quantum of the wages. initiative to capture those children at the early stage I question whether this Minister is really when they can be brought up to the standard which committed to having the dispute with the will enable them to cope better through their school Queensland Teachers Union resolved. I think that he lives. should get up in the Parliament today and tell us that Apparently it takes between 14 and 20 weeks he is prepared to stay out of the media and to honour for a child to complete the program. On completion, the spirit of the negotiations. He should also tell us less than 4% of children require any additional whether he is really committed to resolving this support for literacy programs in their compulsory dispute or whether he wants to continue to prolong it school years, so it has a very high success rate. In for his own political purposes, which is what in my 1996-97, 12 reading recovery tutors were training view he has done for the past six months. If it is teachers in the Reading Recovery Program in 11 good enough for the union and the department, it regions. The first Queensland trainer of tutors began should be good enough for the Minister. training six tutors at the new State Reading Recovery 11 Jul 1997 Appropriation Bills 2733

Centre at QUT, Kelvin Grove at the beginning of Through the program, high school students become 1997. We also had 220 part-time reading recovery indentured to industry while completing their teachers employed delivering the program. A further schooling. eight reading recovery teacher training centres were Time expired. established, bringing the total to 12 centres across the State. Approximately 2,100 Year 2 children were Hon. P. J. BRADDY (Kedron) (11.59 a.m.): I supported in the program during 1997. think it is very appropriate that this debate should take place today immediately after the release of the The program will continue in 1997-98. The six latest unemployment figures. Those figures show tutors who will graduate this year from the QUT two things: the illusions that the Government is centre will increase the total to 18. We are also going seeking to create in relation to its success as a to have two trainers of tutors at the Recovery Government in creating business and employment in Training Centre in 1998 when a second trainer this State, and the true situation, which is quite returns from training in Auckland, which is apparently diabolical. There are 5,300 fewer people employed in the model that we have been using for this very Queensland today than there were when this successful initiative that was implemented in New Government came to office. Over the past 12 months Zealand. Ten additional Queensland teachers will we have seen full-time employment fall by 16,200, commence training as tutors at QUT in 1998, so we and in the past month, a month in which the are moving along with the numbers. An additional 163 Government is claiming as good news what has part-time reading recovery teachers will be occurred, there are 2,500 fewer full-time jobs. employed. That will bring us to a total of 383 at the This Government has succeeded in presiding beginning of 1998. We will be well placed to meet over a greater number of the working poor in this the needs of Queensland children in State schools State as more and more people accept part-time and right throughout the State. It is interesting that the casual work. There is not enough work to give them non-State sector will be given the opportunity of 40 hours a week and support their families properly. having teachers trained as tutors through the QUT The Industrial Relations Department is the system. An additional seven reading recovery department which, above all, must be called to teacher training centres will be established, making a account for that. There are signs in the Budget that Statewide total of 19. Approximately 3,770 Year 2 show why this is occurring. students will be supported in 1998. I turn now to the unemployed. What is the trend The Minister for Industrial Relations, the figure for unemployment today, shown by Honourable Santo Santoro, is very focused this year yesterday's figures, compared to the same day 12 on vocational education and training, and he has months ago? The trend figure is 9.3% unemployed— actually declared this year as the Year of Training. exactly the same figure as 12 months ago. There has That is very significant considering the high level of been absolutely no improvement in unemployment, unemployment. We have had a bit of good news with but there has been a significant backward trend in a small drop in the unemployment figures, but we still terms of full-time unemployed. That is what real have a large number of young people requiring work. employment is about. We know that the sign of a It is very important that we provide the type of healthy society is when people are employed in full- relevant training that they need to be accepted by time, worthwhile jobs. Until this Government, this employers. The Minister has this year committed nation and this State can reach a situation in which $23.3m to the VET system, and that figure will grow. full-time employment numbers are growing, we will This is the second budget in which the Minister has by no means be in a healthy state. injected money into this program which is delivering training to Queenslanders. The Treasurer always makes great noise about the fact that the participation rate in Queensland is The budget focuses on initiatives which will the problem. In fact, the participation rate in ensure more efficient, flexible and responsive VET Queensland fell during the last month. If it had systems. It will include a range of additional maintained the same number of people in opportunities for those most disadvantaged in the Queensland looking for work and wanting work as in labour market—and I mention that particularly in the past, yesterday's unemployment figure would relation to the young. The highlights of the program have been about 10%, but 16,000 people have taken include 23,970 apprenticeships and traineeships themselves off the list of people looking for jobs. We expected to commence in 1997-98, a 19% increase do not have a significant increase in employment. on last year. From January 1998, all apprenticeships What we probably have is a blip in the unemployment and traineeships will be fully funded through user figures. After all, they are only survey figures. This choice. The total funds will be $56.5m. An allocation Government should not be congratulating itself. It is of $6.5m to an employer assistance program is also presiding over an employment disaster that means provided, making that 3,790 additional trainee places that more and more people cannot find full-time that will be created. employment. A range of national training initiatives, including I turn now to this Budget. The Minister has the New Apprenticeships scheme designed to create admitted that the Government is spending $26m less a more flexible apprenticeship and traineeship than it did last year on vocational education and system, is also planned. More young people will be training. It is not good enough to blame the placed into apprenticeships and traineeships under Commonwealth Government for that. This the VET in Schools campaign, on which $3.6m will Government has raided the electricity industry. It has be spent each year over the next four years. burdened the people of Queensland with over 2734 Appropriation Bills 11 Jul 1997

$800m extra that they will not be getting in taxation courses which are tailored to the needs of relief. Yet it does not spend that money in this disadvantaged groups. The Access Program also particular sector. If the Government has taken focuses training delivery in areas of identified skills $800m—and not in a normal budgetary way—why did shortages, employment growth and areas of poor it not at least put that money into the sector that training effort. most calls for it, namely, vocational education and The Minister has announced a program relating training? to work skills for youth. This program targets The Minister has mentioned frequently—and it disadvantaged young people, particularly homeless was mentioned today by one of his supporters—that and indigenous people. $1.06m is provided to help he has called this the Year of Training. Calling this 250 unemployed young people aged 15 to 24 to gain the Year of Training is about as appropriate as the basic work force skills. In relation to skills training for Cultural Revolution in which the Red Guard engaged indigenous communities, as part of the whole-of- in China. In fact, it was the reverse of a cultural Government strategy to coordinate the provision of revolution; it was anarchy. What we have in infrastructure to indigenous communities, $675,000 is Queensland is not the Year of Training at all but the allocated over three years to provide accredited year of talking about training. On the Minister's own training to 70 indigenous trainees in 34 communities. admission, this year's budget for vocational Adult and community education funding is education and training was cut by $26m. available on a competitive basis for delivery of ACE What do we see in the TAFE system? The to 5,000 students in rural and remote Queensland. All TAFE system has never been in more chaos or more these programs contribute to the coalition's disarray than it is in today. I am receiving phone call commitment during the Minister's Year of Training to after phone call, letter after letter and delegation after create a more industry-driven and people-friendly delegation damning this Minister for his absolute vocational education and training system. erosion of the TAFE system. They are busy trying to I turn now to the Education side of the negotiate enterprise bargaining in 16 institutes. At the committee. When we got to the committee meeting it same time, the Minister has said to them, "Get out was very evident that the member for Cook had an there and compete with private providers." How can agenda, and that was to attack the person. Prior to a they do both? How can they have this system of recent meeting which I attended, the member for bargaining across 16 institutes—— Cook stated in general conversation that the Time expired. combination of his electorate and shadow Education Mr TANTI (Mundingburra) (12.04 p.m.): In duties were "all too much to handle". Most members common with other members, I would like to would know that he is not up to the mark, but I am congratulate our chairman, Vince Lester, the other still surprised that he would admit it so openly. Look members of the Estimates committee, the research at his track record. director, Louise Hepworth, officers, executive Mr BREDHAUER: I rise to a point of order. assistants and Hansard. This was my second year on The remarks of the member for Mundingburra are the committee, and it was a pleasure to have before untrue. I find them offensive, and I ask that he that committee both of these Ministers, who are very withdraw. much across their departments and doing a great job with them. Mr TANTI: I withdraw, but the member did say that. I shall mention firstly the Department of Training and Industrial Relations and speak about some of its Mr BREDHAUER: Mr Goss, I ask that the initiatives for assisting disadvantaged and remarks be withdrawn. unemployed people. The coalition is providing a The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr J. N. range of specific training initiatives to improve Goss): The member will simply withdraw. access to vocational education and training for Mr TANTI: I withdraw. underrepresented groups. Through prevocational training, State funding of $3.5m will be combined First of all, the member said that he could not with a Commonwealth allocation of $1.64m to condone strike action in schools. Then, after a bit of provide additional training places in the Access arm twisting by the QTU, he said he did. It is too bad Program for more than 1,800 Queenslanders. This about our 450,000 students and their families; union will assist youth, people with disabilities, ethnic mates come first. Since then, the member has had communities, indigenous people, and people who are three attempts at blocking Leading Schools and in danger of becoming long-term unemployed—such failed every time. He has had three goes and three as early school leavers—to improve their beltings. It is no wonder that he is getting sick of the opportunities to gain employment through an job. apprenticeship or traineeship. The member has referred Education Courses delivered under the Access Program Queensland to the CJC for trying to counter the will improve the ability of young people and others QTU's outrageous misinformation campaign. What disadvantaged in the labour market to access happened—the department got a clean bill of health. employment through an apprenticeship or traineeship At the Estimates committee the member implied that by providing training in areas such as workplace the Director-General, Frank Peach, was guilty of a communication, workplace health and safety, and conflict of interest. But guess what: the auditors basic trade-specific skills. Also, training funded under investigated and found that there was no conflict of this program will be in the form of short prevocational interest. 11 Jul 1997 Appropriation Bills 2735

And what about the member's silly attempt last their tertiary studies. We are seeing increasingly a month to refer the Minister to the Members' Ethics generation of people entering the teaching and Parliamentary Privileges Committee? He did not profession for whom teaching was not the first even get to first base. What I can say in his defence choice and who seek to get out of teaching when is that he has not had much to work with. How does they can get a job in private enterprise. one attack a record increase of $440m, or 15.4%, in Teachers do not want to get bogged down the Education budget over two years? How does with paperwork, endless rounds of meetings and one attack a record capital works program and reviews and planning documents. They also do not record teacher numbers? How does one attack want to have a whole variety of society's problems record funding for new schools, airconditioning, dumped on the school with the comment, "Let the information technology, remote area incentives, school deal with it." It amazes me when parents—and teacher housing, asbestos removal, school security I am a parent myself—say that they find it difficult to and life education? That is why the member has handle two or three children at home in relation to resorted to these personal attacks on senior public particular issues, so they will let the school handle servants. issues. I fail to see how a group of 900 secondary Time expired. school students or a class of 30 could somehow Mr T. B. SULLIVAN (Chermside) (12.09 p.m.): magically appreciate values and behaviours that Teaching is a very labour intensive industry with could not be taught and appreciated in the family more than 70% of the Education budget expended home among two or three children. on fixed salaries. So when we are looking at other The teaching profession does not have the programs, we are looking at less than a third of the longest hours of work. It is not the most dangerous. budget. In fact, there is very little room for However, it is certainly extremely personally draining. manoeuvring in the very large $2 billion-plus budget. The problems of discipline have been exacerbated It is the importance of teaching and the teaching by the greater retention rates with older teenagers profession that I want to emphasise to the Minister and young adults remaining at school longer. They today, because while publicity is given to particular have fewer jobs to go to, are reluctant to stay at innovative programs—or so-called innovative school and feel resentful for the fact that they have programs—it basically comes down to the teacher in to stay at school. They take out their anger and front of the kids who is the essence of his resentment on their fellow students and on the department and of his work. teaching staff. I encourage the Minister to liaise with The long-term future of education for our the Minister for Families, Youth and Community kids—some of whom are in the public gallery Care, the Minister for Sport and the Minister for currently—relies not so much on information Police, and particularly the Juvenile Aid Bureau, to technology, new styles of classrooms and different develop programs and activities that will link together sorts of innovative programs, but on the basic and share school resources from the Department of relationship between the teacher and the students in Families, Youth and Community Care and the Office the classroom. The other changes that occur around of Sport and Recreation so that we provide that are very much peripheral to the essential something constructive for our young people to do. I student-teacher relationship, of learning in a believe that we are running programs separately, in supportive environment. It many ways, it does not isolation. I believe that working with the Honourable really matter what is taught to a child; it is the Mr Veivers and Mr Lingard, the Minister will produce process of learning that is important. In terms of good programs. elements of history, one could take any aspect of Time expired. history and teach that. The key is to understand how Mr HARPER (Mount Ommaney) (12.14 p.m.): to learn from the past to make decisions for the Given my new role, I was not able to take part present in order to have a better future. It does not directly in the Estimates committee process this year. really matter whether a child knows or does not know However, I followed it with great interest. I was particular elements of chemistry, physics or biology. pleased to read the reports about various What is important is that the student has the ability to departments. Two sectors that interest me personally conduct research, to put information together and to are small business and education. I will comment on come to conclusions. Deductive reasoning and both of those. research skills need to be developed. As to small business—it is quite easy to see, When I consider what is happening with both from the Budget and the Estimates committee teachers and the teaching profession, I become very reports, that small-business people gained from this concerned that, with the current industrial problems, Budget. The 1997-98 budget for the Department of the morale of teachers throughout the State is poor. Training and Industrial Relations—— It disturbs me, as someone who taught in schools for more than 20 years, to read that teaching is Mr BREDHAUER: I rise to a point of order. Are becoming the fifth, sixth and seventh choice on we debating the report of Estimates Committee F or QTAC application forms. People are entering teacher another report? education courses—— The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr J. N. Mr Quinn: Applications are up. Goss): Order! There is no point of order. Mr T. B. SULLIVAN: I accept that Mr HARPER: Following that rude interruption, I applications are up. However, in a growing number of point out that the budget continues to support small cases, teaching is not the first choice of students for business. An $18.8m increase in underlying State 2736 Appropriation Bills 11 Jul 1997 funding for the department's budget will bring many departmental staff, as well as provide access to benefits to Queensland's work force and workplaces, teaching and learning resources required by students especially small business. The increase is earmarked and staff. The provision of electronic mail will primarily to boost the skills and competitiveness of enhance the ability of schools, support centres, Queensland's work force in the Year of Training in regional offices, central office, external agencies and order to improve the State's prospects for jobs community groups to communicate more effectively. growth and economic expansion, especially in Services such as the Web will provide the Queensland's small-business sector. Small business department, teachers, students and the community received an extra break. With new exemptions from with timely access to information and policies. The paying workplace registration fees, a total of 71,000 Statewide network will reduce costs due to the enterprises—almost two-thirds of Queensland duplication of resources involved in processing workplaces—will not pay the registration fee. information, for example, teacher leave forms and by The budget focuses on more training places eliminating manual information collection by paper and better training, particularly for the young, returns. improved workplace health and safety and Time expired. implementing Queensland workplace reform. In a commitment to improving health and safety at Mr ROBERTS (Nudgee) (12.19 p.m.): I wish to Queensland workplaces, the coalition has increased speak about TAFE's performance in the competitive funding for the program by 14.2% to $28.9m. The training market. Section 3.24 of the report deals with budget funds an additional 24 field-based staff, more the competitive tendering environment in which health and safety help for workplaces, including a 24- TAFE Queensland operates. The Government claims hour info line and reduced red tape. Under the that it has a commitment to the ongoing viability of changes, from 1 February 1998 all workplaces with TAFE. However, in the 1995-96 annual report, it was fewer than three people will be exempt from paying predicted that TAFE's success in securing funds in a workplace registration fees. The new exemption competitively tendered market would be increased to means a total of 71,000 small and low-risk workplaces 65%; however, the actual performance was only will not pay the fee. All employers and workers will 57.2%. The Minister provided no explanation for that still be covered under the Workplace Health and shortfall in performance other than that the training Safety Act. The Government is committed to market was becoming more competitive as more improving workplace health and safety while training providers came onto the market. There was reducing the regulatory and red tape burden on no adequate explanation and no apparent concern business. for that significant decline. As to Queensland workplace reform—funding This is a significant shortfall in planned for the program has increased by 13.5% to performance—a drop in performance of nearly 8%. $17.966m. Included in that funding is an allocation of The issue goes directly to the future ability of TAFE $1.16m to encourage business, particularly small to maintain its position as the leading provider of business, to take full advantage of the Workplace vocational education and training in Queensland—a Relations Act 1997 and the Industrial Organisations principle to which the future Labor Government is Act 1997. The industrial relations reforms aim to committed. The Minister should be concerned that encourage flexibility in workplace arrangements. TAFE's share of the competitive market has fallen to such low levels. What is he doing about it? He is just In regard to education, I am particularly shrugging his shoulders and saying that it is a tough interested in the use of modern technology, world out there. That is just not good enough. If this especially the Statewide network for information performance level continues to drop, the job security management. I have made further inquiries about of TAFE teachers, administrative officers and other that. I am pleased to note that the Statewide network staff is at stake. will be used to connect the administration and curriculum networks within all 1,300 schools. Each What is the estimated proportion of the market school will be connected to the network by the end that TAFE believes that it will secure next year? of 1998 with a high bandwidth connection. The VETEC plans to increase the amount of funds network will be capable of transporting services such allocated to the competitive training market. What is as data, voice and multimedia to each school. The the Minister doing to ensure that TAFE is able to department is committed to ensuring that remote and secure a significant portion of that market, or is he rural schools will have access to the same high- simply fulfilling the underlying objectives of the speed digital telecommunications capability as coalition to deliver as much of the public training metropolitan schools. That is very important. It is sector as possible to the private sector—a subtle expected that satellite services will be used to form of privatisation of the vocational training deliver Internet and desktop video conferencing market? capabilities to remote and rural areas. Satellite I wish to make a few brief comments about services can be used to improve distance education unfair dismissal laws. Paragraph 3.12 of the delivery. That is tremendous for those children who committee's report deals with the Government's will gain from it. The use of desktop video unfair dismissal laws. What an embarrassing conferencing could be used to extend the curriculum admission the Minister had to make about the number in subjects such as foreign languages, science and of unfair dismissal applications that have been information technology. lodged under his new legislation! Despite the The network could be used to provide Minister and the Government stating clearly that the professional development for teachers and new laws were designed to reduce the number of 11 Jul 1997 Appropriation Bills 2737 unfair dismissal claims—in my view, itself an were any altercations that could be used as a black unjustifiable objective—what actually happened? mark against anyone who participated in the Since the introduction of the new laws, claims Estimates process. increased by about 10%. Since the new Act came Some issues have been raised today as a result into being, the number of unfair dismissal claims of the Estimates hearings. The first one that was lodged between 27 March and 16 June was 416. raised by the member for Cook was the press release Under Labor's unfair dismissal laws for that same that I put out about Leading Schools. I will simply period last year, there were 382. The Ministerial state that in the arrangements between the two Program Statements forecast a reduction from about parties, that is Education Queensland and the 1,930 claims lodged last year to 1,700. The Minster Queensland Teachers Union, there is nothing to has not explained the rationale for that estimated prevent the department or me putting out a press reduction. That is a point that is noted in the release on Leading Schools provided it does not committee's report. attack or criticise the opposition, that is, the QTU. The Minister has also failed dismally on all Upon reading that press release, the member would occasions I have questioned and challenged him on find no criticism of the QTU whatsoever: not a single the issue to provide any rational justification for the word. The member would be drawing an extremely vicious attacks that he and his Government have longbow if he thought that at any stage that press made on the pre-existing unfair dismissal laws. All he release broke the spirit or the letter of the agreement can do is talk about the perceptions of small that had been reached between the two parties. business and also quote selectively the cases that The next issue that the member raised was the have been heard in the Federal jurisdiction, some of issue of conflict of interest or the potential conflict of which I agree brought these laws into question. interest on the part of the Director-General, Mr However, with respect to the way in which the Peach. I make the point that Mr Peach applied to me Queensland industrial relations law was applied, the to go overseas to study information technology at Minister has failed dismally to make out any valid Silicon Valley in California and to attend a case for his attacks on these laws. As he knows, the conference over there promoted and sponsored by Queensland industrial relations laws were applied the Computer Curriculum Corporation. His fairly and quite differently from some of the quite attendance at the conference was part of the trip. ridiculous cases that arose in the Federal jurisdiction. Subsequent to that decision being made, CCC The misinformed perception of these laws, indicated that it would be willing to pay the which had been fuelled by people such as the attendance fee, the accommodation and some meals. Minister, can be addressed by the proper education Therefore, we simply accepted their invitation and of small businesses. In response to a question that I saved the taxpayer about $1,000. There was no asked about how much money had actually been direct personal benefit gained from accepting that allocated to educate both small-business people and hospitality: none whatsoever. Prior to Mr Peach employees about their obligations and rights under leaving for America, it was declared on his pecuniary the unfair dismissal laws that the Minister created, the interest register to me. We have had an investigation answer was that no specific moneys had been by the Office of the Public Service. It has found that allocated for such an educational program. the director-general had complied with all of the requirements, and even more, so to even suggest Mr Santoro: There is a big bucket on that there is a potential conflict of interest is absolute education. rubbish. Mr ROBERTS: There is no money allocated to The confusion arose because, on the day, the this specific issue which the Minister has claimed is a director-general attempted to answer the member's major factor as to why people are not being question off the cuff and supplied some incorrect employed in this State. The Minister will have to information in relation to two names, as the member admit—and he probably admits it privately—that would well realise when the director-general supplied there was no problem with the laws as they existed in the answer in written form. However, the rest of his Queensland other than the perceptions that people answer has been looked at by the Office of the had of them. Those unfounded perceptions were Public Service, and from our perspective no conflict fuelled by people such as the Minister quoting of interest occurs at all. selectively from a few ridiculous Federal commission The member for Chermside raised the issue of cases. The Minister and the Government have misled attracting the best and brightest into the teaching small business and the people of Queensland about profession. We have tried to do that. We have made the previous unfair dismissal laws, and they should no secret of that. In that regard, we thought that we be condemned for it. needed to put some processes in place. Late last Hon. R. J. QUINN (Merrimac—Minister for year we went out to the schools with a promotional Education) (12.24 p.m.): It gives me pleasure to video and material trying to tell our Year 12 students participate in this Estimates debate. At the outset, I that they ought to be considering teaching as a place on record my appreciation to all members of profession. That is the reason why, contrary to the the committee. I think that the committee had a good member's contribution, the number of applications for spirit about it. There was lively discussion and good teaching courses at our universities rose by some questioning. Overall, I think that the chairmanship of 10% or more. In fact, in general the OP scores of Mr Lester kept the committee on an even keel. At no those applicants had risen. So we were successful in stage did the hearings get out of hand or were there that exercise. 2738 Appropriation Bills 11 Jul 1997

The member for Chermside also raised the It is interesting that page 2 of the letter from issue of the personal relationship between teachers Bells Solicitors to the Caboolture and District Life and students. We acknowledge that. However, all of Education Association is dated 18 June. That is the those other things that impinge upon the classroom date that is automatically placed on correspondence practices of teachers are important. The teaching and by the computer program. That clearly shows that learning environment is important and factors such as the letter was prepared for signature on 18 June and behaviour management, the physical conditions of not 17 June, as the date on the head of the letter the rooms, the airconditioning, kids with disabilities purported. Why would a firm of solicitors deliberately and technology all impact on the relationship falsify the address on a letter that is to be sent? between teachers and students. Although the nub of Mr Braddy: The date. education will always be that interpersonal relationship between teachers and students, other Mr J. H. SULLIVAN: Falsify the date; I thank things come into the equation. That is why within the the honourable member. I propose that this was budget itself we have placed considerable emphasis done to make it appear that there was no connection on continuing programs that we had in place in the between my questioning of the Minister in the first budget and going on with a range of issues that Parliament and the letter itself. will provide an enhanced learning environment for Clearly, if the action was not known to the students. chairman of the foundation at 11.22 a.m. on that day For instance, again we have provided additional and if the intention was to make it appear that the moneys for behaviour management, more moneys for letter was sent before my questioning took place, the remote area incentive schemes and more money for letter was sent as a consequence of that questioning. students with disabilities. Across-the-board, there As such, I regard the letter from Bells Solicitors to has been a large increase in the budget. the association of which I was a member at the time—I have since resigned—as a retaliation for my Time expired. raising questions with the Minister in the Parliament Mr J. H. SULLIVAN (Caboolture) and an attempt to intimidate me as a member of this (12.29 p.m.): I rise to speak in the debate on the Parliament in the carrying out of my duty which, I report of Estimates Committee F. At the outset, I remind members, was to ensure that Government thank the chairman and members of the Estimates money was being spent correctly. Committee F for allowing me the opportunity to I refer to the report of the Parliamentary question the Minister for Education during that Criminal Justice Committee which was tabled today process in relation to a Government grant to the Life in relation to the CJC's jurisdiction over elected Education Centre Foundation. That matter is covered officials. Page 13 of the report refers to Erskine May in paragraph 2.19 of the report of Estimates and members' rights and privileges. The report states Committee F, which states that the Minister had that when any of these rights and immunities is indicated that a further $410,000 was to be provided disregarded or attacked, the offence is called a to that organisation in this financial year and that breach of privilege and is punishable under the law of certain questions that I had asked that he had been the Parliament. It is my intention to write to Mr unable to answer would be investigated and that he Speaker asking that he examine the issues would get that answer back to me as soon as he surrounding the letter from Bells Solicitor and refer could. I do not have it as yet and I am looking the matter to the Members' Ethics and Parliamentary forward to receiving it. I raise the matters again here Privileges Committee. today. A subsidiary question will remain for the people Before I come to the actual grant moneys, I who deal with the firm of solicitors known as Bells. wish to tell members briefly about what I consider to Bells is prominent in real estate and property be quite a disturbing consequence of my questioning development on the Gold Coast. In those dealings, in the Estimates committee. I attended the committee dates are vital issues. Clients of Bells and those who hearing and, at approximately 10.55 a.m., for not deal with clients of Bells have to ask themselves more than 10 minutes, I questioned the Minister in about the ethics of a firm that would deliberately relation to the Life Education Centre Foundation falsify a document that may well be required as Queensland Incorporated. In a letter dated the same evidence in court proceedings. Should the Life day, 18 June, at 11.22 a.m. the chairman of the Education Centre Foundation propose to remove the foundation faxed to the Caboolture and District Life association's licence, it would be a matter for Education Association another letter in a long line of injunction and the letter would be a part of court letters between the association and the foundation evidence. concerning a dispute that had been ongoing. At 3.29 p.m. that same day, the foundation's Time expired. solicitors, Bells Solicitors of the Gold Coast, faxed a Hon. S. SANTORO (Clayfield—Minister for letter dated 17 June to the association in Caboolture. Training and Industrial Relations) (12.35 p.m.): At the The Bells' letter expressed the intention of the outset, I thank the committee, and particularly the foundation to remove from the Caboolture chair of the committee, for the way that the association the licence to deliver the program if the committee conducted proceedings and cooperated Caboolture association persisted in not complying with Ministers and their advisers. I found the whole with the demands of the foundation. No such exchange to be very beneficial from a ministerial information about that intention was contained in the point of view. Any Minister who says that he or she 18 June letter sent by the chairman. does not learn a lot from those particular exercises 11 Jul 1997 Appropriation Bills 2739 would not be telling the truth. I am very grateful for a of the private employers rather than in those of the process which I think makes the departments, Government. The Government agrees with the Ministers and Government generally more Governor-General and will see the major emphasis of accountable. Government policy directed to the private sector I thank my departmental officers: Director- because, as the Governor-General said, that is where General Mr Col Thatcher, Deputy Director-General the real solution to unemployment lies. Ms Susanne Knowles, the executive directors of the I refute the suggestion of the honourable various divisions within my department and the many member for Kedron that we have not increased the other officers behind them who assisted in helping VET budget. That budget provides $23.3m to fund me to prepare for the hearings. I want all of the an additional 14,000 places in vocational education. people who sat behind the director-general, the That detail has been provided to the Estimates deputy director-general and the executive directors committee and I will not repeat it now. to know that I appreciate the enormous effort that There is no doubt that with the introduction of must go into the preparation of the briefs and the new flexibilities, trends—in many cases initiated by information that makes people like me more Labor Governments—are shifting the emphasis within accountable and informed. I thank my ministerial the work force considerably from full-time to part- staff: my senior advisers, Clive Prescott and Lea time employment. Many working mothers and others Crombie, and the liaison officers and advisers who prefer those workplace arrangements. The people in did so much to help me prepare for the Estimates. the labour market are telling us that. I also thank the various parliamentary officers Of course, I refute the suggestion that we are who assisted the committees. I am sure that Mr trying to dismantle TAFE. All I can say is that I refer Lester and other members would agree that Hansard the honourable member for Nudgee to the very and the various parliamentary officers who continue comprehensive ministerial statement that I made a to run the Parliament whilst the committees are in few days ago to show just how much we are doing session deserve credit for all the support that they to entrench job security and the upskilling of give us. Queensland TAFE. In terms of the unfair dismissal One of the major questions raised by the criticism, has the frivolous—— honourable member for Kedron was unemployment. Time expired. We are not going to be as mean-spirited as he was. Mr PURCELL (Bulimba) (12.40 p.m.): I am The Government welcomes the 14,400 new jobs that pleased that the Minister is in the Chamber, because have been created in Queensland. We welcome the I wish to raise a few matters in relation to the South statistical reality that, over the past 12 months, the Bank Institute of TAFE. I refer to a memo to all staff number of jobs created in Queensland represents from the South Bank Institute of TAFE, which 55% of all jobs created in Australia. I will not go states— through the other very good figures that are contained in the employment statistics. Obviously we "... due to budgetary restraints the provision for are working very hard to get the unemployment rate security services will be as follows ..." down even further and we are doing our very best. That memo tells the crims when they can knock off the place. There will be a security presence from Mr Braddy interjected. 4 p.m. till midnight from Monday to Friday. At the Mr SANTORO: I take the interjection. When Morningside TAFE, there will be a security presence one looks at the 50,000 extra jobs created by from 5 p.m. till 11 p.m.—not even until midnight. If economic growth in Queensland in 1997-98, which members spoke to the Morningside police or to any includes 4,530 full-time jobs created by the State other police, they would find out that the worst times Capital Works Program on top of 42,290 other jobs in respect of security are Friday nights, Saturdays and all the extra publicly funded positions, that is a and Sundays—the times when the TAFE will have no pretty good start by the Government. We have security. On Saturdays, they will have a security allocated $23m to the Youth Development Strategy, presence from 8 a.m. till 5 p.m. Saturday night will be which shows that the Government is doing its bit. I a free for all—vandals can help themselves—because refer the member to the contribution made by the we will have no security presence at that time. honourable member for Mundingburra about other While I am speaking about the Morningside Government programs, particularly those of my TAFE, I point out also that its blue-collar staff have department. been reduced in number, from nine to three. I refer to Mr Braddy interjected. the people who do the maintenance work, the groundsmen and so forth. So if everything is not Mr SANTORO: I will answer that question in a either pinched or vandalised, the place will fall down moment, as I intend to answer all questions. Those around our ears. programs amount to many millions of dollars. I also refer the honourable member to the contribution I have another issue to raise in relation to the made by the honourable member for Mount South Bank Institute of TAFE. In particular, I refer to Ommaney who talked about the assistance that small a memo stating— business and the private sector is generally getting "It is with regret that I must advise you from this Government, and that is one of our that, due to budget constraints, Library priorities. That priority is supported by the Governor- Services will no longer be able to offer a library General, who yesterday said that unemployment is a service to your faculty at the Coorparoo problem whose resolution lies primarily in the hands Campus." 2740 Appropriation Bills 11 Jul 1997

That is an absolute tragedy. The students at the In conclusion, I point out to the Minister that TAFE campus at Coorparoo, who are halfway the most important asset he has are his employees. through their course, have been told that their library The Minister's employees are trying to negotiate an will be closed. A letter to the Minister from a student agreement with him in good faith, and he is not representative states— negotiating. The Minister is interfering with the "The library service is vital to all four Emergency Services agreement. The employees courses currently running at Coorparoo and is have entered into an agreement with their employer, promised to us as part of student amenities but Mr Santoro and his department have stepped in through fees." and interfered. What is use of working out an enterprise agreement? If I were Mick Veivers, I These students are paying for the library, but the would take the Minister outside and sort him out. Minister is taking it away. The letter goes on to state— Time expired. "Please understand the immense Report adopted. frustration we students feel at being stranded in our course mid-year ..." Estimates Committee G The letter also mentions the planned closure of the Report No. 1 Coorparoo campus, which is also causing people a lot of jitters. The CHAIRMAN: Order! The question is— Another South Bank Institute of TAFE memo "That Report No. 1 of Estimates states— Committee G be adopted." Mrs GAMIN (Burleigh) (12.45 p.m.): Estimates "As you are aware through recent Budget Committee G accepted responsibility for examining Meetings, the decision has been made to the Estimates of two portfolios—Families, Youth and remove administration staff from Coorparoo Community Care and Health. The expenditure by Campus as a result of severe budget these departments represents a significant portion of restrictions to this Program." the State Budget. That is causing all sorts of problems at the Estimates committees are designed to examine Coorparoo campus. For example, the TAFE mail is forward Estimates of spending as contained in the not coming to Coorparoo and they are not getting State Budget, and in this context not all questions first-hand information. It is getting mixed up at South put by committee members were relevant. Bank and is not getting there. For example, the Opportunities were deliberately missed in order to Queen Alexandra Home at Coorparoo should be waste time in attacks on public officials and receiving its mail at Coorparoo, but that is not ministerial staff. In some instances, such questions happening. The administration office there is were based on untruths and erroneous suppositions. complaining that the South Bank TAFE has its mail and, because of the enormous strains placed on the The new Sessional Orders were an remaining administration staff at South Bank, the improvement. The Sessional Orders also allowed Queen Alexandra Home is not getting its mail. These members other than committee members to people in Coorparoo, who are working on a participate in hearings. All members were welcome to volunteer basis and looking after thousands and attend the hearings of Estimates Committee G and to thousands of people in our community, are being put questions to the respective Ministers. One non- frustrated because the Minister will not give them committee member attended the Department of their mail. Health session of the hearing. All committee members attended both sessions of the hearing. All replies to Another matter that I wish to raise with the questions on notice to Ministers from Government Minister is a very heart-rending one. It concerns a and non-Government members were received within course run at Coorparoo for intellectually the allocated time frame. Replies to questions taken handicapped people. Due to budget constraints the on notice during the hearings were either received course will no longer be available. It is being before the end of the relevant hearing or were discontinued. An internal memo states— responded to within the allocated time frame. I thank "Earlier this week a number of students both Ministers and their staff for their cooperation in who attended the above course for quite a few dealing with questions on notice. years, arrived at the campus expecting to Although I believe the conduct of the attend their classes. Responses from these committee still left something to be desired, people were very heart-rending and distressful Estimates Committee G was to a large degree better for everybody concerned. This was particularly behaved this year than it was when I reported to the true of one student, aged about 60, who voiced Chamber in 1996. However, committee members his disappointment at 'not being able to come should not constantly interrupt or interject when to school to learn to read and write'. His closing Ministers or public officials are attempting to respond comments were, 'I feel like committing suicide to questions. A visiting member was twice warned because every where I go they close it down. that his presence at the hearing was conditional on No wonder young people commit suicide'." the approval of the committee. A third warning would He also went on to comment that he would like to kill have resulted in the committee being asked to Howard. He would probably get a bit of help with withdraw that approval. Fortunately, it was not that from a lot of other people. necessary to invoke that sanction. However, it was 11 Jul 1997 Appropriation Bills 2741 necessary to adjourn the Health segment of committees in very different ways. However, I Estimates Committee G for a few minutes to allow personally think that as an Opposition spokesperson parliamentary staff to clear the public gallery in I have been able to get the answers out of the response to a demonstration which made it Ministers one way or another, no matter how impossible to continue with the hearing. I thank the generous they were in wanting to give those parliamentary staff for the responsible manner in answers. I hope that the Estimates committee which they performed this duty. process continues in future years. In general terms, I am concerned at the manner Today I want to comment on the Aboriginal in which public officials and ministerial staff have affairs section of the portfolio of the Minister for been targeted by non-Government members during Families, Youth and Community Care. During the the whole Estimates process. It seems that Estimates hearing I had the opportunity of asking the allegations of misbehaviour can be made with Minister how he felt about the fact that $560,000 had impunity. When these allegations are refuted and been budgeted over two years to establish an proven to be quite trivial or even totally without indigenous affairs office in the Premier's Department foundation, they are carelessly flicked aside, yet but that it had not been established. The Premier public officials and ministerial staff are powerless to indicated in the Estimates hearings this year that he publicly defend themselves. In the Families, Youth did not even know whether he was going to establish and Community Care segment of Estimates such a unit, despite having budgeted money for it Committee G, the Children's Commissioner was most over two years. Clearly, the Minister for Families unfairly attacked for attending a very important wants that money and wants that unit to go in his conference at which he represented Queensland and own department. There seems to be some infighting the other States as part of a Commonwealth team. amongst the front bench of the Government over This attack was most unjustly continued in the media who is going to have the ultimate control over outside the hearing. The Public Service is outraged indigenous affairs. at this gratuitous insult to a person who has It is very unfortunate that this Government, dedicated his life to the public benefit. after 16 months in office, clearly has not worked out In the Health hearing, the private affairs of a its overall indigenous affairs strategy. This was ministerial staff member were laid bare in a totally brought home to us yesterday during the debate on deplorable manner. Some members of this Parliament the report by the Public Works Committee relating to think that they can say anything they like in the public infrastructure programs in Cape York. I want to arena, but they are the first to complain if their own quote from part of that report today because I private lives are opened up for public dissection. believe it is very important. I hope the Minister has Members of the Parliament who engage in such read the report. I will certainly make sure it gets out action bring discredit on themselves and the into the general public. This report confirms what I Parliament. have been saying about indigenous affairs under this In conclusion, I thank all members of the Government all along, that is, there is really no committee for their assistance and cooperation coordination at all. leading up to the hearings and in the preparation of I want to be fair about this. I have to say that the committee's report. The Government members indigenous affairs is a difficult area and that when we were myself and the members for Maroochydore and were in Government we had problems with Mansfield. The non-Government members were the coordination as well. But I think that things really members for Mount Coot-tha, South Brisbane and have gone off the rails over the last 16 months. We Mount Gravatt. The member for Capalaba also have an indigenous affairs office meant to be in the attended. Non-Government members have prepared Premier's Department but that does not exist. We statements of reservation which form part of each have seen the establishment of an Indigenous segment of this report. Advisory Committee—the Neville Bonner committee— I also place on record my sincere appreciation which has such a broad role that it does not know to research director Les Dunn for the very what it is supposed to be doing, and no-one else professional way in which he carried out his duties. does either. There has been some criticism of that My thanks go also to research officer John McCrae, committee. Page 97 of the Public Works Committee who had his first taste of Estimates this year, and report states— executive assistant Maureen Barnes. As always, the "The IAC represents Aboriginal and Torres Hansard staff performed their duties in a totally Strait Islander people in Queensland and makes efficient manner, as did the staff of the Parliament. recommendations on Aboriginal and Torres My thanks go to them all for their assistance and for Strait Islander affairs to the Minister for ensuring that the processes of Estimates Committee Families, Youth and Community Care. The G were completed without difficulties. committee heard evidence from groups who Ms SPENCE (Mount Gravatt) (12.50 p.m.): I believe the IAC duplicates the roles of the ACC have been on two Estimates committees this year but and the ICC and is a 'waste' of $5 million." this is the first opportunity I have had to place on It does not surprise me that people are saying that, record my appreciation of the Estimates committee because the committee does not know what it is process. I think it was a very beneficial process for supposed to be doing, and no-one else knows what an Opposition member. I have been privileged to be it is supposed to be doing. This Minister and this on the committees for many Ministers this year. I Government failed in not giving that committee a think that the Ministers approached the Estimates proper role when it was established. I think it was 2742 Appropriation Bills 11 Jul 1997 established in haste, and now the Government is three murders in 1995-96—the last full year for which slowly working out what it wants to do with it. full statistics are available—compared with five in Certainly—as the Minister admitted in the Estimates Cairns, three in Mount Isa and five in Townsville. hearing—the Premier, who is this Government's Logan, in the heart of the electorate of former spokesperson on Wik, has not gone to this Premier Wayne Goss, was the most dangerous committee for advice on native title issues. Yet this is police district in the State in relation to murders, with the premier committee to be advising the nine occurring in that year. Rape statistics applied to Government on indigenous affairs in this State. the same centres indicated 30 rapes in the Gympie People no doubt are asking: why are we spending police district compared with 86 in Cairns, 19 in $5m on this committee if it is not even giving the Mount Isa and 45 in Townsville. There were 41 rapes Premier and this Government advice on the most in Logan. In relation to offences against property, the important indigenous affairs issue that has occupied Gympie police district suffered 58 break and enters the time of this Government and this State this year? compared with 271 in Cairns, 94 in Mount Isa and We also have the indigenous affairs 270 in Townsville. Those statistics give a true picture interdepartmental committee. No-one really knows of just what is occurring in the Gympie area. Those how that is going to fit in with the Indigenous Affairs who live in the district consider themselves to be Committee or the Office of Indigenous Affairs, if it privileged. ever gets settled. Under this Government there is a The Department of Families will continue to total lack of coordination in terms of indigenous support the Gympie region. It has consistently affairs where one department does not have a clue resourced the Cooloola Shire, particularly in meeting what another department is doing. Certainly the the needs of its young people. Specific examples Office of Indigenous Affairs in Mr Lingard's include: subsidising the shire's Youth Development department does not have a clue what is happening Program to the tune of $85,000; providing start-up anywhere else. This is hurting indigenous people. funding for the youth activities program at Imbil to Capital works funding is not being expended. We the tune of $10,000; funding the Gympie-Widgee found out during the Estimates hearings that the Youth Service to the tune of $148,000; and Minister's department cannot spend its capital works providing financial and resource support for young budget from one year to the next. The excuse is that people's participation in the State Government's there is a wet season. youth advisory forums process to the tune of $5,000. Time expired. In addition to supporting youth programs in Mr STEPHAN (Gympie) (12.55 p.m.): I rise to Cooloola, the DFYCC also provides funding for support the contribution of the member for Burleigh. community organisations in the region. Under this I express appreciation for the opportunity to take banner, we have recurrent funding for the Disability part in this debate. The Department of Families, Services Program of $650,000, funding for the Youth and Community Care consistently resources Community and Individual Support Program of programs for young people in Queensland, $108,000, the funding program for the Rural particularly in the Cooloola Shire. Under the Children's Centre of $65,000, funding for the Supported Accommodation Assistance Program, Alternative Care and Intervention Services Program $215,000 is provided recurrently to the Gympie- of $105,000 and funding for emergency relief of Widgee Youth Service to provide housing and $24,000. This gives some indication of the assistance related services to young people in the shire. The being provided in my electorate. department is sharing resources and expertise with Time expired. the Cooloola Shire Council to support the Sitting suspended from 1 p.m. to 2.30 p.m. employment and activities of the Cooloola youth development worker. The DFYCC will contribute Ms BLIGH (South Brisbane) (2.30 p.m.): I $85,000 over a four-year period to this program. would like to join with other members of Estimates Throughout this week, young Aboriginal and Torres Committee G in recognising the importance of the Strait Islander people have been working, through Estimates process, and in recognising it as an integral the Queensland youth advisory forums process, on part of the workings of an accountable democracy. I cultural issues for young Murri people in their also want to say how important it is that the process community. Resource support and funding of $5,000 is an open one, that transparency is important and, have been provided to assist Cooloola's youth above all, honesty is important. advisory forums this year. Unfortunately, I believe the report of the A youth needs analysis in the Cooloola region deliberations of Estimates Committee G can be has identified the rate of youth crime as being described only as a dishonest and less than fulsome considerably lower than that in other areas of the report of the discussions and deliberations of that State. That brings me to events of the last couple of committee. I am surprised that Government members days which have affected Gympie. I refer to the who have endorsed the majority report have allowed article by criminologist Paul Wilson in some smutty themselves to have complicity in what could be magazine which stated that Gympie was the crime described only as an attempt to hide the truth about capital of Australia. How dare Paul Wilson denigrate the total collapse of accountability in this portfolio. such a beautiful city and district! In whichever The Estimates process is meant to be one in which category of crime one examines, Gympie is nowhere Ministerial and departmental activities are exposed to near the top of the tree. For example, of public scrutiny. Estimates Committee G undertook its Queensland's major regional centres, Gympie had responsibility in this regard with due diligence, and it 11 Jul 1997 Appropriation Bills 2743 found the Minister's administration of this department The Estimates committee also asked the sadly wanting. Minister to provide information about the I would like to address my attention to a couple departmental tender for a centre for the assessment of the revelations in that committee report and put and development of children who are either in the them on the public record. In relation to funding care of the department or at risk of coming into the grants under the family support program, the Minister care of the department. The tender was advertised in confirmed in evidence before the committee that on early April and tenderers were advised that they a number of occasions he has provided grants of would be told of the successful tender on 15 May. money to ineligible organisations; he has granted They were subsequently advised that they would not funds to organisations which have not submitted be getting the information until after 19 June, which applications in line with the requirements of the was the day of the Estimates committee hearing. This legislation; he has provided funds to organisations was a deliberate attempt to make it impossible for the outside the published targeted areas for the funds; Estimates committee to scrutinise the process in that he has allocated further funds without advertising the regard. availability of these funds; and worse, he confirmed Not surprisingly, the successful tender of to the committee that, if further funds become $300,000 has gone to the Shaftesbury organisation. available in this program, he has no intention of Not only am I disturbed and concerned about the advertising the availability of those further funds. As I tender process, but there are serious questions disclosed to the House on Tuesday, 33% of this about what kind of a Government would place a funding is now being allocated in the Brisbane north residential centre for children at risk on the same region. campus as a community corrections facility which regularly provides accommodation for convicted I am very surprised that the members of murderers, rapists and drug offenders. The co- Estimates Committee G from the Government side— location of these facilities is unsuitable and I cannot the members for Burleigh, Mansfield and believe that the Minister with the responsibility for Maroochydore—did not take the opportunity to at the protection of children would place a centre for least express concern about that in this report. There the residential care of children at risk so close to are no family support workers south of Helensvale people who are clearly inappropriate for them to be and, given the clearly strange processes, I would placed with. It is an another example of how out of have thought that the member for Burleigh would touch this Minister is with his portfolio. He clearly have some concern about that. There are now seven puts the pecuniary interest of his director-general of the new 11 services in the Brisbane north region, above the protection of children. but none of these are on the Sunshine Coast, and likewise I would have thought that the member for Time expired. Maroochydore would have taken the opportunity to Mrs WILSON (Mulgrave) (2.35 p.m.): Whilst I express her concerns in that regard. The member for was not actually a member of the committee, I am Mansfield has remained silent when the Minister's pleased to participate in the debate, and I support only defence of this is to say that Brisbane north the report. I, too, would like to thank and region has a greater need. There is no objective congratulate the chairperson, the member for criteria to support the Minister's assertions in this Burleigh, and the committee for the way they regard. conducted the actual sessions. Certainly it was I look forward to these members having to different from the hearings that I attended last year. explain to the community groups in their electorates During its term of office, this Government has over the coming months—those that applied through been committed to working with the community to all the rigorous guidelines who were highly provide greater opportunities for everyone to lead recommended and missed out—how this process satisfying and rewarding lives. This commitment is happened and how they were not only part of a reflected in the 1997-98 State Budget allocation to Government which has presided over these the Department of Families, Youth and Community disturbing activities, but that they remained silent Care. The Minister and his department placed high when they had the chance to criticise. Yet there was priority on increasing support and services for not even an expression of concern; instead, there families, children, youth, people with disabilities, the was a deliberate attempt to hide the truth. elderly and Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander While I have talked a little bit about things that people to create a curtain of care over all the Minister was prepared to tell the Estimates Queensland families. It is easy for the members of committee and how disturbing the information he was the Opposition to criticise, but there have been very prepared to give us was, the information that the positive steps, and pro-active steps, by this Minister was not prepared to give the committee is Government in sustaining emphasis on the provision equally disturbing. This is in relation to the costs of of pro-active programs. There has also been close the trip of the person who is now the Children's liaison with other Government departments to Commissioner, but who was at the time a research effectively address community needs. officer in the Minister's office. I would like to state I would like to outline a number of important here that there is no criticism of the person who initiatives that are being implemented by the current occupies the position of Children's Commissioner, pro-active Department of Families, Youth and but there was a criticism of the Minister for failing to Community Care budget of $534.028m, which provide accurate data to the committee about the represents an increase of almost 7.7% over the cost of the trip. previous year. Actually, in the previous year, the 2744 Appropriation Bills 11 Jul 1997

1996-97 Budget also had an increase of 9%. strategy to address the critical issue of indigenous Significant funding is being provided to ensure a community infrastructure. more effective system is available to protect children, In another initiative under the current budget, particularly those who may be victims of child abuse. funding has been provided to establish a special This includes legislative reform, which will provide telephone counselling service for problem gamblers. for a new range of orders from the Children's Court, This budget represents a well-targeted and highly new standards of care and improved accountability responsible response to the major issues facing our for those responsible for children placed in out-of- society, as well as reflecting the fact that the home care. Department of Families, Youth and Community Care There has also been increased funding over takes very seriously its mission of "Working With three years for the Moving Ahead post-school Communities to Create a Caring Society". I commend program which allows young people with severe the report to the Committee. disabilities who turn 18 to move from special schools Mr NUTTALL (Sandgate) (2.40 p.m.): I take and special education units to appropriate adult this opportunity to revisit an issue which I raised with options. This program, which is addressing an the Minister in this Parliament in March this year. I important area of unmet need in the community, is want to revisit this issue because the information already under way with an initial intake of 80 students supplied by the Minister to this Parliament in March who are being given opportunities for greater and the information that was supplied to the involvement in work and community activities. Capital Estimates committee by his department is very funding has also been provided in this Budget to conflicting. From the answers that were supplied to establish new centres and modify existing buildings the Parliament in March and to the Estimates and amenities, especially in rural areas, to improve committee, there appears to be some sort of access for people with a disability. favouritism towards certain community groups when The Government is also addressing the problem funds obviously should be allocated on merit. of domestic violence, and in this Budget has pledged In November last year, I wrote to the $1.5m to promote and implement appropriate Honourable the Minister requesting additional funds legislative changes. The changes will extend the for an extension to a neighbourhood centre at Domestic Violence (Family Protection) Act to cover Bracken Ridge within my electorate. The Minister non-spousal domestic violence, and will ensure that replied to me fairly promptly and stated— children and people, such as the elderly, who are abused by their carers will be covered by the "At the present time, however, there are no legislation. As part of the initiative, the department departmental funds available to assist with any will explore ways of providing services that are also relocation or provision of new premises." appropriate for the indigenous community and One has to take that on its merits. But what annoyed people with disabilities. I might make a point at the me more than anything was that, prior to the Brisbane moment that we have had applause from the people City Council elections in March, my local newspaper of indigenous communities for what has been going carried a photo and, lo and behold, who was in that on with this Government in those areas of care. photo? We had the councillor for Bracken Ridge, In addition, the Department of Families, Youth Councillor Keith Murray, who was retiring—— and Community Care is to conduct two pilot Ms Bligh: A Labor councillor? programs for child witnesses of domestic violence. Mr NUTTALL: No, he was a Liberal councillor. One pilot program will be at Hervey Bay and the Surprising about that! We also had the new Liberal other at Emerald. The department has also pledged candidate, Carol Cashman. We had the mayoral $0.8m to establish two pilot programs to reduce candidate, Councillor Bob Mills—all Liberal people— substance abuse and suicide by young and, of course, we had the Reverend Allan Male, the Queenslanders. One of the projects will be based in director-general. That article stated that a proposed the Cairns region and the other in Toowoomba. The $163,000 extension and renovations would be announcement which was made just recently has met considered very favourably by the department— with great acclaim in the community. I certainly have according to the Reverend Allan Male—if the Liberals had a number of inquiries from people who would like won Government at the council election. So we had to participate in that particular program. These a commitment by the director-general that they initiatives are further evidence of the commitment to would look favourably on a project if the Liberals reach out and help young people during what are were elected to the council. Yet when I wrote as the often troubled and difficult periods in their lives. local member, no money was available. Improved water supplies to five indigenous Mr Dollin: It's called pork-barrelling. communities in the northern peninsula area of Cape York have also been provided for. The department is Mr NUTTALL: The honourable member for working in cooperation with the Department of Local Maryborough is correct. That is exactly what it is. Government and Planning and the Department of On 18 March in this Parliament, in a question Natural Resources to provide a continuous supply of without notice, I asked the Minister if funds would be high-quality water to the 3,000 people living in the made available and whether there would be Bamaga, New Mapoon, Umagico, Seisia and Injinoo additional funds in the Budget. I queried the Minister communities. This supply was certainly an instance about the Reverend Allan Male's involvement in this where the departments are working together. This matter. In his response to my question without initiative forms part of a whole-of-Government notice, the Honourable the Minister said— 11 Jul 1997 Appropriation Bills 2745

"There will be funds in the coming Budget Miss SIMPSON: And then they will moan for extra neighbourhood centres. Clearly, that is about it. Even with evidence of Queensland's what my director-general was referring to." unemployment figures, Opposition members still cannot acknowledge that, and they are still moaning That was a quite clear and unequivocal statement by about it. The reality is that good things have been the Minister to the effect that there would be money happening in capital works expenditure in a number in the Budget and that what his director-general was of departments, and Health is one example. $295m referring to in terms of that news clipping to which I has been successfully spent on real jobs, real referred was that there would still be additional hospitals and real services. So the truth is that Labor money for neighbourhood centres, such as the one lied. It lied. Yet we still have to get the message out, in my electorate of which I have spoken. because Labor members will still run around lying to Ms Bligh: And is there money? people about the capital works expenditure. Mr NUTTALL: That is a good question from Mrs EDMOND: I rise to a point of order. We the shadow Minister. were using the Minister's budget figures. Is the member saying that those figures are incorrect? On pages 448 and 449 of the Hansard record of The CHAIRMAN: Order! There is no point of the Estimates committee hearings, the Minister was order. I call the member for Maroochydore. queried at length by the shadow Minister and gave several answers in relation to that issue. He then Miss SIMPSON: We now have the actual called on one of his departmental people, a Ms figures, and there has been the full allocation. I am Casey. I wish to make it quite clear that I cast no not talking about budget figures from two or three aspersions on Ms Casey. She was only doing her months before the end of the financial year. The job. The bottom line is that she said— member still has not worked that one out, has she? As I said, $295m has been spent in the capital works "There are no additional funds at this stage budget. In 1997-98, an amount of $570m is budgeted for additional neighbourhood centres." for capital works. That is a lot of money. It will mean So on the one hand we have the Minister telling me real services in the Health arena and the rebuilding of in this Parliament in March that there would be our public health sector in Queensland so that we will additional funds because that was what the director- have the sort of services that Queenslanders need. general was referring to. Then we come to the We also see a massive increase in the overall Estimates process, and the Minister's staff say to the spending in Health of something like $411m. Once Estimates committee that there are no additional again, that is acknowledging the high growth in this funds. State. Queensland is still the State that is out ahead. As people continue to come across the border, The Minister has an opportunity here this services have to be provided. That is happening with afternoon in this Parliament to give a commitment to balanced budgets. the people in my electorate that that neighbourhood As to the Opposition's record with Mr Elder and centre will go ahead. The credibility of the Minister is Mr Beattie, in 1994-95 we saw a $24m overrun in on the line in relation to this issue. If he says one their Health budget and a $54m overrun in 1995-96, thing in this Parliament and his department says when they had to be bailed out by Treasury. Under another thing, it is about time that he put the record the coalition we have seen massive increases in the straight and made sure that the people in my budgeted amount for Health, yet the Health electorate are given a fair go, as are people in non- Minister—with good management and leadership— Labor electorates. That is the difficulty with this managed to bring that in on budget. That is process: it leads people to think that if they do not significant, and it will be another indictment upon the live in a Labor electorate they will get looked after, Labor Party and its style of Government in this State. but if they live in a Labor electorate it is bad luck and When it comes down to the nuts and bolts of service they are going to miss out. It is just not good delivery and whether the Labor Party can actually enough. build the hospitals and bring them in on budget, it Miss SIMPSON (Maroochydore) (2.45 p.m.): has been shown to be horribly wanting. That record It is with pleasure that I rise to speak in support of will stand, and we will never let it forget that. the committee's report. I would like to comment, I turn now to the Sunshine Coast and some of firstly, on the Health portfolio. What an outstanding the services and capital works on the Sunshine job has been done in the spending of the Health Coast. $1.7m has been earmarked as the first capital capital works budget. It is an indictment on works expenditure for the Caloundra Hospital Opposition members that they were running around redevelopment. A further $4.6m is to be spent over the State saying that capital works had been frozen the financial year on the Nambour Hospital and that nothing was happening. Now the proof of redevelopment. I was there the other day. It was the pudding is that we have seen that the full Health good to see that work has commenced on the car capital works budget has been spent. The Education park there. I know that is going to make a big Department's budget has been spent, too. There is difference to people's access to that very important also some evidence that, with the fast-tracking of community hospital. I am sure that it will also improve capital works, they may have gone so fast that they people's security in getting to and from good and have overspent in some areas in their endeavours to safe car parking. bring that work forward. As to some of the State Budget's key Health Mrs Wilson: And then they'll moan about it. initiatives for the Sunshine Coast—something like 2746 Appropriation Bills 11 Jul 1997

$1m in activity growth has been allocated to the doubt that because cancer patients require access to Sunshine Coast. Intensive care services have had intensive care, hospital wards and so on, not to $600,000 added to their funding. That was very much mention hotel services. My grave concern is that the needed. Renal services will receive $175,000. I community will be offered a trade-off, given the believe that $288,000 has been spent on the massive additional cost: they will be offered a new Nambour Hospital's mental health unit. This has been hospital, but without oncology services, cardiac an area of concern—providing psychiatric services services or other services. The cost differential may and mental health services in a community where a well exceed $100m. lot of the population is transient. It has been That brings me to the future of the Kirwan recognised that this has been a difficult area, but a Women's Hospital. Folklore has it that the then Health significant funding boost has been provided to that Minister, Brian Austin, when faced with the need to sector. Extra money has also been allocated for child replace the ageing maternity block at Townsville and health nurses. With an ageing population—— demands to build a hospital in Thuringowa, decided Time expired. to build a free-standing maternity hospital at Kirwan. Irrespective of which option is approved, Mr McELLIGOTT (Thuringowa) (2.51 p.m.): A gynaecology and obstetrics will return to the decision of the greatest importance and significance Townsville Hospital. Kirwan will then be unused, to the people of Townsville/Thuringowa and indeed although it has been suggested that it be used as a north Queensland will soon be made by the Minister rehabilitation unit, community health centre or general for Health—either the present Minister or the new practice clinic. Again my worry is that costs will Minister in the Beattie Labor Government. I refer, of dictate that nothing be done with Kirwan on the basis course, to the decision to engage in a massive that funds are needed for the new hospital at redevelopment of the Townsville General Hospital at Douglas. its present site or, alternatively, to construct a new The Kirwan Women's Hospital is located right in hospital on a new site adjacent to James Cook the centre of one of the fastest growing residential University at Douglas. The significance and areas in the State and is ideally situated to provide importance of that decision to present and future accident and emergency services and general generations is obvious. hospital facilities to the residents of Thuringowa. My The State Budget under consideration today own preference, assuming that $200m-plus is includes $118m for the redevelopment of the available, is to upgrade the Townsville Hospital on its Townsville Hospital based, I presume, on the master present site, retaining all of those specialist services plan adopted by the previous Government several to which I have earlier referred with the addition of years ago. I do not know whether a precise estimate obstetrics and gynaecology, and to develop Kirwan is available, but the generally accepted view is that a as the Thuringowa community hospital. That will be new hospital on a greenfield site will cost over an unpopular view among those who long for a shiny, $200m. I have no doubt that the majority of new hospital. I, too, will lend my support to a new Townsville people favour a new hospital, and that hospital if I can be guaranteed that there will be no appears to be the view of the present Minister and reduction in facilities and services. the majority of the medical staff at the hospital. The North Ward site certainly has its problems. However, I suggest that support for a new hospital is It is crowded, the buildings are old and parking is really a motherhood statement. Who is going to say very difficult. However, I am sure that those "No" to a brand new hospital? I urge today that no problems can be overcome in accordance with the final decision be made until all the options are master plan and by the use of multistorey car parking, thoroughly examined and the community has been for example. Groups such as the Red Cross, the consulted fully. The issues are not straightforward. National Heart Foundation and the Queensland The bottom line surely has to be the maintenance Cancer Fund have substantial investments nearby and, indeed, the enhancement of services. In that which would have to be relocated adjacent to the regard I mention several issues. new site. Businesses have been established to meet Most importantly, the Goss Labor Government the needs of patients, staff and visitors. Those provided facilities and services at the Townsville businesses would suffer enormously from a decision General Hospital which met longstanding demands of to relocate. My point is that that enormously north Queenslanders. Those include the new important decision must not be made on the simple psychiatric unit to replace the infamous Ward 10B, basis of new versus old. The options must be spelt the oncology unit, the cardiac unit, MRI, nuclear out fully. That is not a party political or philosophical medicine and the list goes on. All of those services decision. Quite simply, the people must get the best were available previously only in Brisbane. A new patient facilities and services that money can buy. hospital must not proceed unless it includes all those We need to see the advantages and disadvantages facilities. The people of Townsville and north of both options. Once a decision is made as to which Queensland must have an ironclad guarantee that option will provide the best facilities and services that will be so. I worry particularly about the that money can buy, the approved project, I am sure, oncology unit. That is a magnificent purpose-built will receive the support of the entire community. facility with an outstanding view across Cleveland to Hon. M. J. HORAN (Toowoomba South— Magnetic Island. It is of considerable therapeutic Minister for Health) (2.56 p.m.): I thank the chairman, value to cancer patients. The Minister has expressed the member for Burleigh, and the committee the view that the oncology building can remain on members for their involvement in Estimates the existing site as a free-standing unit; however, I Committee G. I thank also Mr Dunn and the staff. 11 Jul 1997 Appropriation Bills 2747

The Government was able to demonstrate very During the course of Estimates Committee G clearly throughout the Estimates process the some very disturbing processes occurred. Once enormous turnaround that has occurred in again we saw Opposition members continuing with Queensland Health. That department was beset with their tactics of bitter personal attacks on ministerial management problems and financial problems. As a staff. They got right down into the gutter in some of result, it was not delivering basic services to the the lowest acts that I have seen for many years in the people of Queensland in the way that it should have Parliament. They have no respect for the Parliament. been. During the last financial year and through the Media staff belonging to the Opposition were not Estimates for this budget we have been able to content to stay at their desk where they were demonstrate quite clearly that we now have a well- supposed to stay. They were coming across managed and professional health system in continually to the top table, sniggering and laughing. Queensland. Importantly, for the first time in years, People were moving in and out. They showed the budget has not required Treasury absolutely no respect for the traditions of the supplementation for hospital overruns. As a result, Parliament. good professional decisions have been able to be In relation to dental health, the Opposition has made about where growth should occur and what referred to this $20m as being not new money. It is new services and new initiatives are required without new money. The Commonwealth funding ceased. It having to use the crisis system of management of was only one-off funding for three years. That bailing out particular districts and the hospitals funding has now been replaced by recurrent money contained therein. which stays forever and a day in the hospital An important step in the past 12 months has budgets. been the development of district health councils. The Opposition talked about the hospital Now the community has genuine input into how budgets. Obviously, the Opposition is devastated by health services are provided. They are proving a the success that we have had in now having a well- great success. We have been able to demonstrate managed, professional system. I remind the quite clearly the success of the Surgery On Time Opposition that we are still paying $8m a year off the project, which took Queensland from having the Elder debt of 1994-95. It would be very handy to worst figures in Australia to now the best figures of have that $8m to spend on a number of other only 2.4% long waits for Category 1 elective surgery necessary projects. compared with 49% when we put the project in place. The new funds in the new budget of some The waiting list program is well under way. In $43m on top of the $30m that already existed are fact, in relation to the waiting list program and being targeted specifically at Category 2 to reduce Surgery on Time, we have just put out a media the long waits and to leave recurrent funding in the release to 150 outlets detailing all the figures. Every hospital budgets so that, when long waits for time we put out a media release we hear, "Where are Category 2 have been reduced to an acceptable the figures?" We have put out to 150 outlets a media level, that is, less than 5%, we can maintain that release containing all the figures hospital by hospital, status for forever and a day. specialty by specialty, percentage by percentage, absolute numbers—the whole lot—so that Much of the Estimates Committee G process everybody can see the success that we are having. concentrated on the capital works budget of In summary, the coalition Government is back to Queensland Health. $295m was allocated in State basics, and is delivering services. funds. That is an absolute record for this State. We indicated over and over again that the full amount Mrs EDMOND (Mount Coot-tha) (3.01 p.m.): would be spent by 30 June. In fact, that figure has Firstly, I place on record my thanks to my fellow been exceeded. By the end of June, $300.7m was members of the committee, the Hansard reporters, spent on capital works, specialist equipment, attendants, Ministers and departmental staff. I say to information technology and the minor capital works the Minister how lucky he is to not recognise and to program. That has been a great effort by the not even bother his little self about the $50m each Queensland Health staff considering that the State year that goes into paying the $600m health debt that Budget was brought down in September, allowing Labor inherited when it took office. That was a only nine months in which to spend that money. $600m plus debt from the hospitals boards. That debt is still in the Budget papers. Currently, it stands We promoted very important public health at $512m and is being paid off at $50m a year forever issues, such as breast screening. A huge increase and ever. occurred in 1996-97 and an even bigger increase is anticipated in 1997-98. The immunisation program Previously, we heard the member for was put in place by Queensland Health. Big Cunningham, who was chair of another committee, increases were provided in mental health funding, state that he believed that the Estimates were to which was given a $54m boost, part of which will be allow detailed questions regarding facts and figures. used for capital works with the balance being If only that belief was shared by the Minister for recurrent funding. Another huge increase was Health, how different the hearings would have been provided for dental services. Again we replaced the both this year and last year. On both occasions, the Commonwealth one-off three-year funding. We put in Minister made it very clear, as he does with place $20m of recurrent funding to maintain dental questions on notice and FOI requests, that he simply services. That means 300 jobs for dentists and does not believe that he has to be accountable to 70,000 extra Queenslanders will be able to access the people of Queensland and that the people of free public dental services. Queensland have a right to correct figures and facts. 2748 Appropriation Bills 11 Jul 1997

On every occasion that facts or figures were asked that the Budget figures were accurate. Clearly, as we for, members had to sit through a blast of did last year, we have to worry about that. As both meaningless, puerile political verbiage which proves the Treasurer and the Health Minister have said that clearly that the true facts and the true figures do not Treasury will not release funds for capital works until match the Minister's hyped-up media a resource agreement has been determined fixing the announcements. capital charge for that project, the capital works for Clearly, the waiting list figures, the surgery almost every major project in Queensland are in output figures, the staffing numbers and the capital doubt. works figures will not stand up to any scrutiny The Minister cannot have it both ways, as he is without the benefit of enormous fudging and trying to do. He denies categorically to this Chamber massaging. That fact is borne out by the recent that agreements have been made with all of the major confirmation of the misleading waiting list figures for projects throughout the State, yet he claims that the Prince Charles Hospital—figures shown to be work is proceeding on them. I ask the Minister: which fibs—by leading cardiologist Con Aroney. Those statement is correct? One of them has to be a porky. figures relate to just those patients on the Prince As only one statement can be true, I leave it to the Charles Hospital waiting list. Most patients needing Parliament to decide which one. Clearly, the cardiac surgery are held back from even getting onto Minister's statements do not stand up to scrutiny. I the waiting list for six months by techniques I call must admit that I am very concerned about the gatekeeping—they only allow as many through the ramifications of the Minister's tenuous grasp of the gate as can be operated on to fit the Minister's facts within his portfolio and the number of questions numbers. that he is unable to answer. Firstly, there is a two-month wait to see the Time expired. cardiologist and another two to four-month wait to Hon. K. R. LINGARD (Beaudesert—Minister get an angiogram, and even then some people tell me for Families, Youth and Community Care) (3.06 p.m.): that that can take nine months. People then have to I join with other members in thanking the member for go back to the cardiac surgeon—another two Burleigh for her chairmanship of this committee. I months' wait—and not even then do they pass go. also thank the other members of that committee. Only then if there is a space on the list can the patient proceed to the waiting list, and then they go The Department of Families, Youth and onto the Category 2 or 3 waiting lists, even though Community Care is very proud of the fact that it has cardiologists have assured me that, to gain maximum been able to maintain its funding to the extent that, benefit, all people needing cardiac bypasses should over the 15 or 16 months that I have been Minister, I be operated on within six weeks. have not had to drop any programs at all. In that regard, we are very proud of the department's I will show to members a novel idea. I am afraid funding program. that I have only one copy and I cannot table it. I am also proud of my Director-General, However, I am happy to lend it to people who are Reverend Allan Male. However, I am certainly interested. This hospital services report is published concerned about the personal attacks that have been quarterly by the Victorian Government. It actually made on him. Unfortunately, the Opposition lists the figures for the waiting lists, throughput, produced a document relating to the beginning of costs and unexpected readmissions for not only the 1996 and then said that that document shows totals but also for each individual hospital. The report Reverend Allan Male's current role in the Shaftesbury also lists how long people wait in accident and Centre. I repeat, and I have repeated it continually, at emergency for treatment instead of pretending that it present Reverend Allan Male does not have any role does not happen, such as occurred with that poor in the Shaftesbury Centre. He has resigned from all 88-year-old woman with a fractured hip who waited of those positions. We have kept in close contact for 75 hours before she was properly admitted. What with the Public Service Commissioner to ensure that is considered top secret and only for Cabinet in all of those things are okay. This has been a massive Queensland is readily available to the Victorian personal campaign against Reverend Allan Male. I public. Clearly, the Victorian Government believes certainly hope that it has nothing to do with Jacki that its figures can stand up to scrutiny. Byrne's appeal against the Government, which will be Equally clearly, Minister Horan does not believe heard by the courts next week or the week after. that his figures will stand up to any public scrutiny, This has been an absolutely personal campaign. and he is right. Although his only input has been to The second matter that was absolutely amazing change the colour of the ALP's elective surgery was that, during the Estimates hearings, the shadow strategy to pink, he has lost the integrity, honesty Minister tried to indicate that the Department of and public accountability that went with that Families did not seek applications for any grants, strategy. such as youth grants or family support worker grants, The Opposition continues to have major before those grants were announced. It was an concerns regarding capital charging, especially in unbelievable thing that the shadow Minister did. She light of conflicting statements made by the Treasurer produced a document dated 18 November, when the and the Health Minister and the many contradictions grants were given on 6 November, to try to show in statements made by the Health Minister himself that a letter was received after that date. I will table throughout the State. It has been surprising to hear the documents. What actually happened was that members opposite repeating the claims that the FOI produced a document which had been a request Budget figures are not to be trusted. We thought for a copy of a letter. Unfortunately for that particular 11 Jul 1997 Appropriation Bills 2749 community group, it took that letter off its computer the Minister abused the process by giving long- on 18 November and it was dated 18 November. winded policy statements instead of answering That is indicated clearly in the document which I will questions. We see this constantly in the Chamber table. The community group produces the document when the Minister abuses question time by regularly off its computer on 18 November and, of course, the delivering ministerial statements which are thinly document gets the date of 18 November on the top disguised as questions without notice. His answers of it. It is not even signed. Of course, the document to such questions constitute five to seven minutes of states to Lyn, who is the lady it was sent to, "Here is wasted question time in response to dorothy dixers a copy of the original letter." However, the original from one of the poor coalition backbenchers or letter was produced at the start of October, and I will "Front Page Frank". also table that document. We also see evidence of this in the Minister's Ms BLIGH: I rise to a point of order. The answers to questions on notice. The tone of the Minister is trying to say that a letter is an application. Minister's responses matches that of only one other He is misleading the Chamber. It is not an Minister, the Treasurer, for their snipelike wording. In application; it is a letter. this regard, the Minister stands out from all others. The CHAIRMAN: Order! There is no point of Even the Minister for Police, who can be very order. aggressive or forceful at times, has someone who shows some respect for the processes of the Mr LINGARD: Based on that document, which Parliament write the answers to his questions on was taken off the computer on 18 November, the notice. Whoever has the poison pen in the Health member has tried to show that the Department of Minister's office ought to be brought into line, Families did not get an application for a particular because the responses to questions on notice grant. That is the sort of thing that the member has certainly stand out. This highlights the hypocritical tried in the Parliament and that is the sort of thing nature of the Minister's claims that the Opposition that she tried at the Estimates hearings. It shows shows no respect for the Parliament. The Minister clearly that, to produce that particular letter, she is had no respect for the Estimates process until he desperate to try to find something about which to was pulled into line this year. He has no respect for rubbish the department. For the information of all question time or for the system of questions on members and for the information of the media, I point notice. How can he then say of others that they do out that this document that I have in my hand shows not respect the parliamentary process? The Minister clearly that applications in writing were received prior for Health has taken the lead in that regard, so he to the actual application being supported. cannot complain of others what he does himself. I am concerned about the personal attacks Unfortunately, the Minister for Health infects his being made on the Children's Commissioner. The own back bench. The performance of the member for Queensland Children's Commissioner has done an Maroochydore half an hour ago was quite extremely good job in that, whenever we receive a remarkable. I thought that she must have taken some complaint, that complaint is acted upon immediately. funny pills over lunch because of the manner in In New South Wales one has to wait for an inquiry which she was screeching into the microphone. Then before a case of paedophilia can be acted upon. This I realised, of course, that her notes possibly came Children's Commissioner acts immediately. Ever from the Minister's office. since the commissioner was appointed, the Labor Mr Radke interjected. Party has attacked him personally and continually. In the Estimates committee, the commissioner was Mr T. B. SULLIVAN: I take the interjection of again attacked. the member for Greenslopes, even though he is not in his correct seat. Simply because the member was In answer to the member for Mount Gravatt, I pushed off his perch by a most erudite two-minute say that I am very proud of the work done by Neville speech last night, he does not have to become Bonner and the IAC. It is because they have worked vicious and nasty in the Chamber. so well that the Premier has been delayed in deciding whether another group should be established. Mr When the Health Minister is criticised, he falsely Neville Bonner and the IAC have been very well claims that Queensland health workers are being accepted throughout Queensland. In answer to the criticised. That is totally untrue. When Opposition member for Sandgate, I inform him that five members criticise an element of the health system, neighbourhood centres are being built. As the they are criticising the Minister's approach. It is member for Archerfield, Mr Ardill, continues to say, cowardly of him to hide behind the skirts of the we have had some difficulties, but another five nurses and other medical professionals by claiming centres will be built after the first five are completed. that we are criticising them. We are not. We are criticising the Minister's approach and his Time expired. administration. It is untrue that we criticise health Mr T. B. SULLIVAN (Chermside) (3.11 p.m.): workers—with one exception, which I will come to in I have had a lot of dealings and contact with the a minute. Let health workers understand very clearly service departments of this State—Education, that the vast majority of our criticisms are directed at Families and Health—and the Minister for Health the half-truths and lies of the coalition. However, stands out among his fellow Ministers for the manner some members of the AMA do the Minister's dirty in which he manages his department. I find him to be work. Two, three, four or five years ago, some constantly aggressive, abusive and uncooperative. members of the AMA leaked matters to the press and This started during last year's Estimates debate when presented only one side of the story about health 2750 Appropriation Bills 11 Jul 1997 cover and health services. Now they are protecting the standards of the Labor Party in Government, but the Minister. We all understand that AMA supporters I looked at the standards of the National Party when of the Minister and the Liberal Party do that, which it was in Government. I went back 10 years. means that sometimes we will direct criticisms at the In 1987, when the Budget came down for that individuals, but we do not level criticism at health year, there was a contingency worth about 20% of workers generally. appropriation for the following financial year—in In another example of his hypocrisy, the other words, roughly something less than about Minister said that he wishes that he had an extra $8m three months of the next financial year. In 1988, the a year to pay off what he called a former Labor debt. contingency was just less than 18%. Again, that is a Of course, he failed to say that in 1989 $600m of little over two months' contingency. In the 1989 debt was left by the coalition Government. When a Budget, which was the last National Party Budget, bit of criticism comes it is an old Joh Bjelke-Petersen the contingency was 22.5%—again, not a full three trick to widen the problem so that others go racing months of funding. I notice that some of the lights in off at a tangent. The half truth and the lie do not the Chamber have just gone out. Maybe they are hold, and people will see through them. trying to save a bit more money for the war chest by The Minister has slipped badly in the last few not paying the electricity bill, or maybe this is the years. I thought that he started off in this place fairly result of $850m being ripped out of the electricity well, but maybe he has been blinded by his industry. This is the product of a Treasurer who raids obsession for leadership within his party. If that is the the electricity industry to support an unsustainable problem, he has to live with it and, unfortunately, the level of funding in this current Budget. Talk about people of Queensland have to live with his bad going back to the dim dark past! We have just about administration. achieved that here this afternoon. Time expired. In 1990, the contingency under the first Labor Report adopted. Budget was of a similar magnitude to that of its predecessor—around 22% or 23%. In 1991, the Clauses 1 and 2, as read, agreed to. contingency was 18.7%. In 1992, it was 20.2%. In Clause 3— 1993, it was 22.1%. In 1994, it was 16.7%. In fact, in Mr HAMILL (3.18 p.m.): Opposition members the last Labor Budget brought down by the would be remiss if we did not draw attention to the honourable member for Cairns, the contingency was extraordinary provision which the Government is 16.7% for the following financial year—about two making in clause 3 of the Appropriation Bill. Clause 3 months of expenditure. But what happened last year of the Bill does not provide supply for the financial under the Government that came in and tried to year 1997-98, which of course is provided for in preach stability? It gave itself a contingency of clause 2 at some $19.4 billion—— 43.3% of Budget for the following financial year. In other words, it gave itself a contingency of around Mr FitzGerald: Don't worry about that. five months of expenditure. That is a clear indication Mr HAMILL: I hear the Leader of the House that what we have here is a coalition Government saying not to worry about that; that was the same that is trying to keep its options open, a coalition message that the National Party gave the people of Government that would be prepared to close down Queensland for three decades up to 1989. The the Parliament and govern without the Parliament, National Party is back to its old trick of saying, "Don't giving itself a sizeable war chest to continue on. you worry about that." I do worry about that. I worry But this year it is even more extraordinary. Not about clause 3 in particular. content with five months of provision, this year the Clause 3 provides the Government with a Treasurer wants to give her Government almost six contingency fund of $9 billion, not for 1997-98 but months of provision. In fact, in terms of the for the following financial year. That means that the Consolidated Fund, the allocation which the Government is asking the Parliament to vote for Government wanted to give itself for 1989-90 Supply not just for the 12 months of 1997-98, but for equates to almost 48% of the expenditure from the 18 months. The $9 billion of Supply for the next Consolidated Fund for this year. I have to ask you, financial year represents a provision which would Mr Chairman: why would the Government go to such allow this Government to govern fully away from the a length that it could effectively govern the State activities of the Parliament until Christmas 1998. In without recourse to the Parliament for 18 months? I fact, that would mean that the coalition Government suggest it is the mark of a Government that is running could call a late election some time after July next scared, a Government that is trying to give itself as year and still not bring down a new Budget, because many options as possible to pull on an election it is giving itself a war chest of $9 billion through this whenever it deems appropriate, and a Government Appropriation Bill. which does not want to come back to the Parliament Mr T. B. Sullivan: Without being accountable. because it knows that, when the Parliament meets, it is subjected to close scrutiny. Mr HAMILL: And the Government is not being accountable. If she deigns to participate in the Every time the Parliament meets, the Parliament debate, the Treasurer will probably say, "But this is boxes the ears of this Government. Even this week, what Governments normally do in the Appropriation we saw the Premier and the Treasurer twice Bill each year." I anticipated that argument from the censured in the Parliament because of their duplicity Treasurer and looked at what Governments normally in relation to their wheeling and dealing with respect do. I decided not to try to judge them according to to Suncorp and Metway. We see Minister after 11 Jul 1997 Appropriation Bills 2751

Minister scrutinised. This week, it was the turn of the when the Budget was brought down, the then member for Noosa, whose escapades in Africa and National Party Government believed it was quite other places have come under the scrutiny of the sufficient for the proper running of the Parliament Parliament. It has not been a very pretty sight. and the Government of the State to allow itself less Anyone who was in the Chamber last night would than three months of appropriation in addition to the have been appalled at the performance of the year in which the Budget was brought down. That Minister for Tourism and at a few other things. was deemed quite sufficient for that Government. Mr Ardill: He could go for six months and they That was a September Budget—— wouldn't need his vote. Mr Cooper: There is nothing wrong with six Mr HAMILL: The honourable member is quite months. correct. He well knows that this proposition we are Mr HAMILL: There is a lot wrong with six discussing is a very important one. Labor months. I suspect that, if the Minister for Police says Governments and even the previous National Party that there is nothing wrong with six months, he might Government never had the audacity to come to the say that there is nothing wrong with another 12 Parliament and ask it effectively to write a blank months. We could bid this up. I am sure it would be cheque. One of the great principles of our Parliament easier for the Ministers opposite not to have to worry is that it has power over the purse; that the about the Estimates process next year before they Government has to come back to the Parliament face the election. This is about being able to avoid regularly to seek its agreement in relation to revenue the scrutiny which the Estimates process has put in raising and expenditure. But this Treasurer and this place. This year, we saw the Government try to stifle coalition Government seem to think that the the Estimates process by limiting the capacity of Parliament is but an encumbrance, that Parliament is members on the Estimates committees to ask there only for nuisance value, and that the way to questions. The Government sought to tighten up the quieten the Parliament and the Opposition is process by ensuring that only Ministers could have effectively to govern without reference to the questions directed to them. The Government tried to Parliament. tighten up on the process by not allowing questions Mr FitzGerald: There is no evidence of that. on notice to have more than one part. Mr HAMILL: This provision is evidence We now have a mechanism put in place which enough that for two years in a row this Government would be the ultimate release, that is, it would release has been anxiously looking over its electoral the 18 Ministers from the trauma—and some of them shoulder and has wanted to keep its options open were very much traumatised by the Estimates and be able to govern without reference to the process—of having to defend themselves before the Parliament. If it was not bad enough last year, the Estimates process. The Government says, "This provision this year is totally outrageous. Where will it whole debate that we have engaged in in the end? It is not a far cry from the Treasurer saying, Parliament over two days this week need not occur "We'll give ourselves two years' appropriation and set again before the election if we get our Supply for the aside the Parliament altogether." That is not very far six months from 1 July 1998." away from where this Treasurer has arrived with Mr Foley: It appears the Treasurer does not respect to this Appropriation Bill. It is want to answer the $9 billion question. unprecedented, it is wrong and it should be opposed strenuously by the Parliament. I believe that the Mr HAMILL: It is a very good question and public as a whole will react very badly to a one that deserves answering. There are not too many Government that wants to govern away from the quizzes around that have a jackpot of $9 billion scrutiny and the processes which the Parliament has available for the taking. It makes Pick a Box look like put in place to ensure that the taxpayers' dollar is a poor person's competition. This is big money spent prudently and wisely. This is an important stakes. This is an Appropriation Bill not for $19.4 issue, and the Treasurer should do the Chamber the billion but for $28.4 billion, which makes even the courtesy of addressing just why her Government Treasurer's raid on the electricity industry of $850m believes it needs to have a year and a half's funding look insignificant by comparison. I believe that the voted in this Appropriation Bill here this afternoon. Treasurer is obliged to address these charges in the Parliament. The Treasurer is—— The CHAIRMAN: Order! The question is that clause 3, as read, stand part of the Bill. Ms Spence: Arrogant. Mr HAMILL: Mr Chairman, in the absence of a Mr HAMILL: She is arrogant. The Treasurer contribution from the Treasurer, I want it noted, believes that she is above this process. The given that such serious charges were made in terms Treasurer believes that she is not accountable to the of the appropriate behaviour of the Parliament—— Parliament. This is the very Treasurer who during the Estimates process tried to decline answering Mr Cooper: This is frivolous. questions about the Budget, even though one of the Mr HAMILL: The Minister for Police regards first programs administered by the Treasury is in fact this as a frivolous point. Even when the Minister for Budget management. But no—questions about Police was in a previous Government—that is, the overall Budget management, the Treasurer declined National Party Government back in 1989—that to answer. That illustrates the contempt in which the Government did not consider it necessary to vote Treasurer holds not only the parliamentary process itself a half a year of extra appropriation. As I made but also the process of the Estimates committees in the point earlier—and I make it again—back in 1989, this regard. 2752 Courts Reform Amendment Bill 11 Jul 1997

I challenge the Treasurer to tell us why she Bells than does Mr Baumann, as set out in paragraph needs an extra $9 billion. It surely was not just an 3 of the letter to me. No doubt his recollection accident that she arrived at that figure. Why is $9 reflects his notes of the conversation. So that there billion of extra appropriation required under this Bill? can be no doubt, I state that my interest in this matter Why does the Treasurer need money that will take has been excited by my belief that Life Education her through to December next year? Why was the Centre Foundation Queensland Inc. is lacking in sort of provision that was good enough for Sir Joh propriety in its handling of State Government grant Bjelke-Petersen, for Mike Ahern, for Russell Cooper funds. These letters are available for tabling. and for Wayne Goss not sufficient for the Treasurer and Premier Borbidge? Why does the Treasurer need the money? Why does she want to be able to COURTS REFORM AMENDMENT BILL put in place a mechanism that allows her and this Resumption of Committee tawdry Government to avoid the processes of this Hon. D. E. Beanland (Indooroopilly—Attorney- Parliament? General and Minister for Justice) in charge of the Bill. Clause 3, as read, agreed to. Resumed from 9 July (see p. 2628) on Schedule, as read, agreed to. proposed new clause 73A (Mr Foley's amendment). Bills reported, without amendment. Mrs CUNNINGHAM (3.36 p.m.): I concur with the sentiment of this amendment—giving an opportunity for both parties to a complaint to appeal Third Reading to the court for their matter to be heard in an Bills, on motion of Mrs Sheldon, by leave, read appropriate jurisdiction. However, I sought some a third time. advice from outside of this Parliament. The comments that I received back indicated that the interpretation and experience of my adviser is SPORTS DRUG TESTING BILL contrary to that of the shadow Minister. In not Withdrawal supporting this amendment but before withdrawing my support, I seek an undertaking from the Attorney- On the Order of the Day being discharged, the General, as he offered several days ago, that he will Bill was withdrawn. insert this proposal in the discussion paper on court rules to allow for circulation, discussion and further PERSONAL EXPLANATION comment. Bells Solicitors Mr LUCAS: I have spoken to the member for Gladstone about her attitude towards this Mr J. H. SULLIVAN (Caboolture) (3.34 p.m.), amendment. I accept her view that she supports the by leave: During debate on the report of Estimates sentiment of it but that she wanted to seek some Committee F today I made certain allegations further clarification on it. I respect that view as a view concerning the actions of Bells, a firm of solicitors on held in good faith. In light of the fact that she will not the Gold Coast. Earlier I had, as a courtesy, alerted be supporting the Opposition amendment, I will not Bells of my intention to do so. On returning to my overly occupy the time of the Committee with office in the parliamentary complex during the respect to the arguments that the Opposition luncheon adjournment, I found a faxed advances in favour of it. However, I think it is communication from Bells setting out a plausible important for the sake of completeness to address explanation for the incorrect date appearing on the the arguments raised by the Attorney-General. correspondence mentioned earlier today. That explanation is, in short, that the letter was prepared The amendment moved by the Opposition on 17 June and forwarded to their clients for seeks to amend the Magistrates Court Act to allow approval. Some minor changes were required to be any Magistrates Court in Queensland to have made, and that was done on 18 June, thereby jurisdiction over Magistrates Court actions brought activating the automatic change of date on page 2 of throughout the State. Members may or may not be the letter. aware that the Magistrates Court is divided up into districts throughout Queensland. For example, in The explanation is plausible but, I regret, not Brisbane we have the central division of the compelling. If the clients, Life Education Centre Magistrates Court and we have Holland Park, Foundation Queensland Inc., were aware of the Wynnum, Inala, Beenleigh and various other districts. contents of Bells' letter on 17 June, it is reasonable Naturally, we have divisions of the districts of the to expect that it would be mentioned in their letter, Magistrates Court—— also referred to earlier today, to the Caboolture and District Life Education Association Inc. dated 18 The CHAIRMAN: Order! There is too much June. In the interests of fairness, I table the letter audible conversation in the Chamber. The Minister is from Bells Solicitors to myself, as well as the Bells having difficulty hearing the member for Lytton, and letter dated 17 June and the letter from the Life he is quite interested in his contribution. Education Centre Foundation Queensland Inc. dated Mr LUCAS: He always is, I understand, Mr 18 June. Chairman. In tabling these letters, I do need to say that I Queensland is the most decentralised State in have a slightly different recollection of the Australia. Arguments about districts and conversation I had earlier today with Mr Baumann of decentralisation are issues that are of vital 11 Jul 1997 Courts Reform Amendment Bill 2753 importance not only to practitioners and their clients amendment allowing for proceedings to be instituted in Brisbane but also to people right throughout the in Charleville because under the Commonwealth State, whether they be in provincial cities or country Service and Execution of Process Act they can just centres. Most civil claims in the Magistrates Court as easily be instituted in Perth. Under that Act a are personal injuries/insurance type claims. In those person can institute proceedings in another State sorts of cases the defendant really has an insurance without any requirement for leave of the court. So company represent him or her. That insurance that argument really does not hold water. As against company is not necessarily interested in where the the remote possibility of that happening, there would action is prosecuted, but the plaintiff/injured person be a far greater saving to the community in terms of is very vitally interested. There could be a situation, convenient jurisdictions being selected by plaintiffs, for example, in which a person resident in Gladstone most of whom are, after all, the little people, the was injured in an accident on the Gold Coast. Under small-business people, or the battler who is injured in the current rules of the Magistrates Court, they are an accident, so I think the argument is very much in forced to sue in the Gold Coast court district. That favour of that. involves a lot of additional expense. At the end of Lest the Opposition be thought to be the day, those expenses are borne by the plaintiff inconsistent, because the Attorney has expressed and the judicial system. views about the possibility of unscrupulous people Another factor in favour of the amendment abusing a choice of districts, it is worth while moved by the Opposition is the fact that a remembering that the District Courts Act, which is a substantial number of Magistrates Court actions are 1967 Act and now in its 30th year, has a specific default judgments. Currently plaintiffs to the provision that deals with jurisdictional districts in the Magistrates Court are forced to file their proceedings District Courts. Section 7 of that Act says— in the Magistrates Court district in which the cause of "Every District Court shall have jurisdiction action arose, even though the action may never be throughout the whole of Queensland." defended. It may be the case that the action has to be brought in a district that is inconvenient for the That means that if a person from Gladstone has an plaintiff, even though nobody is going to defend it. accident on the Gold Coast and feels that they That results in additional costs and resources being should bring the court action in Gladstone, they are expended. entitled to that in the District Court. It is the Opposition that has been consistent; it is the A third very important distinction that I believe Opposition that is seeking to amend the Magistrates argues very strongly in favour of the Opposition's Court Act to reflect the rule of law in the District amendment relates to the expiration of limitation Courts that has been the rule for 30 years. I will table periods for bringing court actions. Members may not the original District Courts Act 1967, which shows be aware, but in most civil actions the limitation that section from the very first day of that Act. It was period is six years and for personal injuries claims it is then called section 6(2). I table that because that three years. If legal proceedings are not instituted in shows that that has always been the policy of the that time, the rights of the plaintiff will be lost forever, Government in relation to the District Courts. and also proceedings need to be instituted in the correct district. In closing, I would like to say that this is a legislative solution that is about law reform. There is I had a situation when in practice where an not much law reform in this Act; it is more about accident occurred in the Petrie area and there was a rearranging who sits in what chairs in the Supreme question as to which district the action was brought Court and the Court of Appeal and who controls in because the particular road was partially in the what. The Opposition is interested in law reform that Magistrates Court district of Sandgate and partly in actually benefits the community and that makes the Magistrates Court district of Petrie. If that action access to justice cheaper for most people. However, is brought in the wrong court and the time limitation I am a realist. I note that the member for Gladstone period expires, that is the end of it. That is a fatal will not support the amendment at this stage because technicality, and that is certainly not in the interests she believes that consultation should take place. I of justice. accept that view in good faith. The Attorney spoke about the possibilities of Mr BEANLAND: The member for Gladstone this amendment, and I accept his view that he will raised the issue of the commitment to consultation in have a look at it. I wait to hear his undertaking on the relation to the civil uniform court rules. As I indicated matter that the member for Gladstone has requested. prior to the adjournment of this debate, I am very The Attorney expressed a view that if these rules happy to give that undertaking. I re-emphasise that were changed, it would allow unscrupulous plaintiffs we will be doing that. I have already had discussions from, say, Brisbane to institute proceedings in with departmental officers who are preparing those Charleville, for example, merely to inconvenience the particular court rules, and we will certainly be doing defendant. There is nothing stopping unscrupulous that. Having said that, I do not back off the points I plaintiffs from bringing legal proceedings in these made prior to the adjournment to the member for areas at all. If these people are that unscrupulous that Gladstone about my concerns. they want to extract money out of people in that I will just point out a few facts to the members way, then maybe they will bring spurious for Lytton and Yeronga in relation to this since we proceedings. have done a little research on this during the If one follows the Attorney's logic, one must adjournment. The Opposition proposed an recognise that there is no need to worry about this amendment to the Magistrates Court Act to allow this 2754 Courts Reform Amendment Bill 11 Jul 1997 to occur. The member for Yeronga indicated, as did do not have the figures, but I would have thought the member for Lytton, that the amendment gives the that a large number of debt recovery matters occur same flexibility in bringing actions in the Magistrates there as well as motor vehicle property damages Court as that available through existing legislation claims and those types of issues. In spite of all that, I governing the District Courts, but that is incorrect. still have grave concerns about how this proposed In support of his proposition, the member for new clause might affect the defendants. Yeronga—as did the member for Lytton a few Nevertheless, I will certainly be consulting when we moments ago—relies on section 7 of the District go out with the court rules in relation to it. Courts Act 1967 which states— Mr LUCAS: I just want to correct one or two things that the Attorney said. I think he referred to a "Every District Court shall have jurisdiction Full Court decision with respect to what the law is in throughout the whole of Queensland." the District Court. Is that correct? That provision does not allow a person to bring a Mr Beanland: Yes. proceeding in any District Court they choose. Litigants still must comply with rule 9 of the District Mr LUCAS: Yes, it was on appeal in the Court Rules of 1968 which, like the equivalent District Court. The Opposition certainly never Magistrates Court Rules of 1960, require a plaintiff to contended that there could not be a successful bring an action in the place the defendant resides or application for a change of venue; that if a particular carries on business, the place the cause of action plaintiff brings proceedings in Mount Isa that should arose, or the place the parties had agreed payment really be brought in Gladstone or Brisbane, that the under an obligation should occur. If a proceeding is District Court could not transfer it. Of course it not brought in the right location in either a could, and it should have the power precisely to Magistrates or District Court, a party may apply overcome any problems. The Opposition has never anywhere in the State to have a change of venue contended that the amendments would mean that where another location would enable it to be tried one could bring an action wherever. In fact, precisely more fairly and conveniently. A District Court or the problem with vexatious claims would be dealt judge may also transfer a case at his discretion where with by the court saying, "This matter has to be a matter was started in the wrong place, or hear it transferred to another district, and you will wear a where it was filed. costs order." The Attorney is not stating the Opposition's point correctly. The Opposition does The only situation in which section 7 of the not contend that the current situation in the District 1967 Act makes a difference is where none of the Court is not other than that the court can order, quite rule 9 criteria which I have just mentioned apply. This appropriately, a change in venue. It is very important is because the Magistrates Courts' jurisdiction is to correct that. limited by their criteria, whereas the capacity to hear the cases in the District Court—in other words, its Mr FOLEY: The member for Lytton has jurisdiction—is not so limited. In 1991 a decision of correctly outlined the error into which the Attorney the Full Court of the Supreme Court of Queensland fell in wrongly characterising the case put forward by in Tuckerman v. Neville, this view was adopted. The the Opposition. Indeed, if the Attorney recalls, I bench was the Chief Justice, Mr Justice specifically took the Committee to section 7(2) of the McPherson—and I heard the member for Lytton give District Courts Act and drew the attention of the him some praise the other evening—and Mr Justice Committee to the wording in that section which deals Derrington. The Chief Justice said— with questions of jurisdiction, whereas the amendment which I have moved in this Chamber "However, a plaintiff will be free to relates specifically to the bringing of proceedings. commence his proceedings in any district in Queensland if the defendant is served within The one other consideration which perhaps has the State and the claims as to amount and eluded the Attorney is the problem which can arise category is authorised by section 66"— when proceedings have been brought in the wrong Magistrates Court district, which then results in that that is now section 68, I understand of the District proceeding being invalid, and may then give rise to Court Act of 1967— statute of limitations problems if it is near the end of "... and if, further, Rule 9 is inapplicable." the statutory period. The Opposition amendment would give the I do, however, welcome the Attorney's Magistrates Court more flexibility than the District willingness to include this matter in the review of Court. The measure has, therefore, not been tested. court rules. I note that this is a matter of practical In any event, the proposed amendment looks reform moved by the Opposition in order to assist nothing like section 7. We can stand here and argue people to get speedier and cheaper access to justice all day, but the point I make is that I am still and to remove unnecessary impediments. I point out committed to going out and undertaking some public to the Attorney that, given the Attorney's rhetoric of consultation in relation to it because I have real getting on with the job, this was a golden concerns about the provision. It may be that, at the opportunity for the Government to do just that and end of the day, the points raised are valid and people not to send the matter away into the valley of the are not concerned. shadow of court rule reform, which has indeed been a long shadow for many years. There is one other point I would like to make. The member for Lytton said that the bulk of matters Mr Lucas: A very deep valley. in Magistrates Courts are personal injuries claims. I Mr FOLEY: Yes, it is a very deep valley. 11 Jul 1997 Courts Reform Amendment Bill 2755

Mr Beanland: Six and a half years under anomalies inherent in the Supreme Court Act 1991. Labor. Prior to the 1991 Act, the Chief Justice had Mr FOLEY: I assure the Attorney that the precedence over all other members of the court and valley is not just the property of the Labor administrative control of the court. In practice, Government. It is a valley in which all Governments judges met to consider matters concerning the are welcome. I recall that, when I went to the Bar in running of the court. However, the Chief Justice was the early part of the 1980s, I was informed of the new ultimately responsible for its administration. The 1991 Supreme Court Rules, which were just about to be Act was widely criticised—and members who were in proclaimed. I invite the Attorney to be a little this place at that time would well remember that—as circumspect in dispensing his magnanimities on this an attack on judicial independence, because the Act point. The Opposition will persist with its stripped the Chief Justice of all power to administer amendment, but I do welcome the willingness of the the court, to allocate judges to cases and to assign Attorney to have this matter considered in his himself to sit in the Court of Appeal or in trial work. process. The manner in which this Bill vests the Chief Mr BEANLAND: Of course, the Opposition's Justice with power to administer the court is not Magistrates Court amendment does go beyond the revolutionary—far from it, in fact. The Bill vests the change of venue. It says quite clearly that one can Chief Justice with overall responsibility for the bring proceedings without regard to districts, etc. It administration of the court in exactly the same terms does go beyond that quite considerably. As I said as section 46 of the Supreme Court Act 1991 vested prior to the adjournment of this debate, there is responsibility for the management of the Court of presently the ability, if justified, to approach the Appeal in the President of the Court of Appeal. court and to make application to have a case moved Section 46 provides that the President is responsible to another district or court within the Magistrates for the administration of the Court of Appeal. It Court's area. It is not of such substance that we provides that the President has power to do all cannot cope with it currently. It has existed, and it things necessary or convenient to be done for or in seems to work okay. Quite clearly, there is a connection with the administration of the Court of disagreement on this particular point. Regardless, we Appeal. will consult in due course. Similarly, section 60(2) provides that subject to Amendment negatived. consultation with the Chief Justice, the Senior Judge Administrator has power to do all things necessary or Clauses 74 to 106, as read, agreed to. convenient to be done for the administration of the Clause 107— court in the Trial Division. This Bill returns Mr FOLEY (3.56 p.m.): The Opposition responsibility for the administration of the court and opposes this provision, which inserts into the its divisions to the Chief Justice, but largely Supreme Court Act a new section 13A. This new preserves the position of the President and the provision gives certain administrative responsibilities Senior Judge Administrator, who will retain their to the Chief Justice. The argument advanced by the statutory functions. The 1991 Act created a hierarchy Government is that this restores the authority of the in the court, but isolated the Chief Justice. It Chief Justice. Yet no such provision existed prevented the Chief Justice from having any role in previously in the Supreme Court Act. One presumes the administration of either the Court of Appeal or that the Government's argument rests upon a the Trial Division. consideration of the powers and responsibilities As the 1991 legislation created a hierarchy in conferred on the Senior Judge Administrator and the court, it is only possible to restore the authority upon the President of the Court of Appeal by virtue of the Chief Justice by expressly stating that he is of the reforms introduced in 1991. I remind the responsible for the administration of the court and Parliament that those reforms were introduced for a giving him the powers necessary to carry out that very important purpose, namely, in the case of the responsibility. This Bill places the Chief Justice at Trial Division, to assist in the streamlining of case the head of the apex created by the 1991 Act. The management and, in the case of the Court of Appeal, Bill does not remove the responsibilities of the to assist in the establishment of the new court and President or the Senior Judge Administrator. The Bill the streamlining of the appeal system so that citizens provides that, subject to the overall responsibility of could have the opportunity for speedier access to the Chief Justice, the President continues to be justice. responsible for ensuring the orderly and expeditious This clause has been the subject of extensive exercise of the jurisdiction of the Court of Appeal. consideration by the Scrutiny of Legislation Similarly the Senior Judge Administrator continues to Committee, and it is unnecessary for me to repeat all be responsible for ensuring the orderly and that. The Opposition contends that this clause is expeditious exercise of the jurisdiction and powers quite unnecessary and will oppose it. of the Trial Division. The Bill interferes with the existing administrative arrangements only to the Mr BEANLAND: This clause is similar to the extent necessary to restore the overall responsibility one which the Parliament approved prior to the of the Chief Justice for the administration of the adjournment of this debate in relation to the Chief court. Those changes occurred in 1991-92 and Judge of the District Court. With respect to the certainly were very controversial at that time. Supreme Court of Queensland—this Courts Reform Amendment Bill attempts to restore the pre-1991 Mr LUCAS: I will make a number of position of the Chief Justice by addressing observations in relation to clause 107. Members will 2756 Courts Reform Amendment Bill 11 Jul 1997 be pleased to know that I will not speak in relation to The Scrutiny of Legislation Committee referred any other clauses. The observations are pertinent in to a collegiate system. Of course, I would not relation to this clause, so I will make them now. This contend that the Supreme Court of Queensland Act clause is one of a number of provisions in the Bill that 1991 provides for a collegiate system. However, one seek to detract from the powers of the President of strength that it has over the amendments is that it the Court of Appeal and the Senior Judge provides for a three-pronged system rather than one- Administrator. The Attorney can say all he likes, but pronged system. One can consider the individual the fact is that this clause takes away the absolute qualifications that are necessary for those positions, powers that the President of the Court of Appeal and which are different—or else we would not need to the Senior Judge Administrator have. This so-called have a Senior Judge Administrator. That is very reform Bill is full of provisions that do not increase important. That is the distinction that this access to justice. It does not have any aspect Government is abolishing. There is an old saying that whatsoever that reduces court delays. In fact, the best training for the Bar is the Bar and the best arguably this Bill will make them longer. I will discuss training for the Bench is the Bar; but I can assure later the reason why I think that is a reasonable honourable members that the best training for hypothesis. On any argument, this legislation does management is neither the Bar nor the Bench. It is not make justice speedier or more accessible to quite wrong headed for the Attorney to seek to move Queenslanders. these amendments. My particular concern is what this Bill does to I seek to draw the Committee's attention to the position of Senior Judge Administrator. I must Alert Digest No. 6 clause 5.14, which very clearly preface my comments by saying that I make no elaborates on that argument. It states— reference whatsoever to the qualifications or "The further practical point is often made capacities of the existing office holders of any of that judges rarely have the opportunity to those three positions. It is patently clear that the develop administrative experience (indeed, the qualifications for appointment of a Chief Justice are practice of the bar, from which most of them are not necessarily the qualifications for appointment of drawn, explicitly insists on solo practice). Given the best administrator. This Bill seeks to abolish that the security of tenure of judges, a chief justice practical distinction. The Supreme Court Act 1991 who is administratively less than gifted cannot contained a position of Chief Justice and a position be replaced. In any case, it is always possible of Senior Judge Administrator. There is a real that the ... hallmark of a great chief justice does difference between the qualifications that one needs not possess high levels of administrative skill." to be the Chief Justice, the intellectual leader of the That is precisely the point that I believe it is court, the one in the court who has the finest judicial important to make. mind—of course, they all have very good judicial Just in case the Attorney missed the point minds—who provides disciplined academic and when we last spoke about it, I point out that it is intellectual leadership and the qualifications one instructive to consider the Fraser Liberal needs to provide appropriate management and Government's legislation, the High Court of Australia coordination of the roles of the court. Act 1979, which specifically provided that the I understand that Owen Dixon is looked upon powers of the High Court under that Act may be as probably Australia's greatest judge and jurist. exercised by the justices or by a majority of them. Mr Foley: I prefer Lionel Murphy. In Committee the Attorney quoted more material from Daryl Williams, QC, when he said Mr LUCAS: Certainly, as the member for that—and I will paraphrase because I do not have the Yeronga points out, it is worth noting that Lionel exact wording in front of me—that does not mean Murphy's judgments are the ones that have stood the that, when there is a collegial system, every judge test of time, unlike those of that discredited person has to have a say. The Opposition is not contending Sir Garfield Barwick. Lionel Murphy's decisions in that. I am not contending that all 30 or so judges of relation to section 92 are the ones that the High the Supreme Court need to have a say. However, a Court now adopts. I will not digress any further in representative method of managing the court that is relation to Lionel Murphy. based on the collegial system is possible. Sir Owen Dixon and, for that matter, Lionel This Bill is nothing to do with law reform; it is Murphy were looked upon as great jurists not playing politics. It is not in the best interests of the because of administrative ability or lack of ability but court, because it does not recognise that the talents because of their legal and intellectual leadership. of a Chief Justice—and I am making no comment in That is a very important distinction that the relation to any existing office holders—are Committee should appreciate. Judicial leadership in necessarily different from the talents required of a the legal sense is something that is quite separate. Senior Judge Administrator. Sir Owen Dixon or Lionel Murphy were not great Question—That clause 107, as read, stand part judges because they were great administrators. After of the Bill—put; and the Committee divided— their judicial careers they did not go off to become AYES, 44—Baumann, Beanland, Borbidge, Connor, chief executive officers of BHP or some other major Cooper, Cunningham, Davidson, Elliott, FitzGerald, corporation. Their ability was in their legal Gamin, Gilmore, Goss J. N., Grice, Harper, Healy, Hegarty, pronouncements. That is why the Opposition draws Hobbs, Horan, Johnson, Lester, Lingard, Littleproud, the distinction between a Senior Judge Administrator McCauley, Malone, Mitchell, Perrett, Quinn, Radke, in particular and the Chief Justice. That is no Rowell, Santoro, Sheldon, Simpson, Slack, Stephan, reflection on the qualifications required for Chief Stoneman, Tanti, Turner, Veivers, Warwick, Watson, Justice; they are different. Wilson, Woolmer. Tellers: Springborg, Carroll 11 Jul 1997 Courts Reform Amendment Bill 2757

NOES, 44—Ardill, Barton, Beattie, Bird, Bligh, Braddy, judicial administration under the guise or the slogan Bredhauer, Briskey, Campbell, D'Arcy, De Lacy, Dollin, of restoring the authority of the Chief Justice of Edmond, Elder, Foley, Fouras, Gibbs, Goss W. K., Hamill, Queensland. In that respect, the inconsistency of the Hayward, Hollis, Lavarch, Lucas, McElligott, McGrady, Government is well demonstrated by its own Mackenroth, Milliner, Mulherin, Nunn, Nuttall, Palaszczuk, document, namely, the Explanatory Notes which Pearce, Purcell, Roberts, Robertson, Rose, Schwarten, Smith, Spence, Sullivan J. H., Welford, Wells. Tellers: accompany the Bill. At page 7 of the Explanatory Livingstone, Sullivan T. B. Notes, it states— The numbers being equal, the Chairman cast his "The proposals to divert criminal appeals vote with the Ayes. from Magistrates Courts to the District Court, and to use video link facilities in criminal Resolved in the affirmative. appeals, were raised in a Discussion Paper Clauses 108 to 116, as read, agreed to. attached to the Annual Report of the President Clause 117— of the Court of Appeal." Mr FOLEY (4.14 p.m.): The Opposition In other words, the very facility that was put into opposes this clause, which amends section 32 of the legislation by the Labor Government's reforms Supreme Court Act 1991. That Act provides that the approved by this Parliament in 1991 has borne fruit. President of the Court of Appeal is responsible for It enabled the President of the Court of Appeal to ensuring the orderly and expeditious exercise of the report directly to this Parliament. jurisdiction and powers of the Court of Appeal. This We have heard the Attorney-General complain amendment makes the President subject to the Chief about delays in court reform, yet we have a removal Justice for arranging the business of the Court of of the provision for the President of the Court of Appeal. Appeal to report directly to the Parliament. This The aim of the Labor Government in introducing clause requires the President of the Court of Appeal these reforms in 1991 was to assist in the to report to the Chief Justice, and the Chief Justice development of judicial administration to make it may or may not pass on such matters in his or her more responsive to the needs of litigants. As a result report—whoever may hold that high office at any of that legislation, the Court of Appeal was put in particular time—to the Minister and then to the place, that is, a new permanent Court of Appeal. Parliament. Accordingly, certain powers were given to the So the case for avoiding this measure is made President in respect of the arrangements of the by the Government itself. This is an example of the business. Under the existing Act, there is already Government being moved to wreck Labor's reforms, provision in section 32(2) for consultation with the to turn back the clock for no good purpose even Chief Justice in relation to these matters. This is yet when, on its own case, the power of the President of another example of the Government turning back the the Court of Appeal to report directly to the clock on an important reform to judicial Parliament has borne fruit. That is manifest in other administration. The Opposition will oppose it. parts of the legislation before the Parliament with Mr BEANLAND: This clause relates to the respect to appeals and to video link facilities. powers of the Chief Justice. The Parliament has just Mr BEANLAND: The member for Yeronga carried that clause that relates to the Chief Justice proposes that clause 118 of the Bill be omitted. This having the responsibility. This clause relates to that clause imposes a requirement on the President of the clause. It is very important that the amendments that Court of Appeal to give to the Chief Justice an the Government is putting forward to the Supreme annual written report about the operation of the Court of Queensland Act 1991 be supported, Court of Appeal during the year. Clause 129 imposes because it relates particularly to that clause. It says a similar obligation on the Senior Judge Administrator simply that the President still administers the Court of with respect to the operation of the Trial Division. In Appeal subject to the Chief Justice. It restores the turn, clause 140 envisages that the Chief Justice will Chief Justice to that former role. Of course, this provide the Minister with an annual report on the clause relates to the controversy that the Labor operation of the court as a whole at the end of each Government caused when it stripped the Chief financial year. The Chief Justice's annual report will Justice of all powers in the 1991 Act. In every other be tabled in the Legislative Assembly. court in every other place, the Chief Justice is just Annual reports are an established mechanism that—the Chief Justice and the head of the for the Parliament and the public to be informed each court—and this clause simply restores the Chief year about the operations of publicly funded Justice to that position. organisations. I presume that the member is happy Clause 117, as read, agreed to. for the requirement of the Chief Justice to provide an Clause 118— annual report but does not consider that either the President of the Court of Appeal or the Senior Judge Mr FOLEY (4.17 p.m.): The Opposition Administrator should be required to report to the opposes clause 118. It inserts a new section 32A into Chief Justice. Of course, clearly the capacity of the the Supreme Court Act, which provides that the Chief Justice to report on the operation of the President of the Court of Appeal must prepare and Supreme Court as a whole is dependent upon the give to the Chief Justice a written report about the cooperation of the President of the Court of Appeal operation of the Court of Appeal during the year. and the Senior Judge Administrator to provide him or This clause is another example of the her with information concerning both of these Government turning back the clock on the reform of divisions. Presently, the President of the Court of 2758 Courts Reform Amendment Bill 11 Jul 1997

Appeal provides a separate annual report under a goes on to make a sensible provision that there be statutory requirement and, I might say also, the consultation with the President of the Court of Senior Judge Administrator has produced annual Appeal. That is what is sought to be removed. This is reports, although he is under no obligation to do so. a squalid clause and it should be opposed. I do not believe that it is tabled in this Chamber. Clause 122, as read, agreed to. It is in the interests of the efficient Clause 123, as read, agreed to. administration of justice in the State that the information contained in the separate annual reports Clause 124— be merged into one document which is prepared Mr FOLEY (4.27 p.m.): Clause 124 inserts a under the authority of the Chief Justice. I am new section 44A to the principal Act. Clause 124 somewhat surprised that the Opposition does not states— support the proposal for reports to be received from "Under section 44, the remuneration and both the Supreme Court as a whole and the Senior conditions of a judge of appeal, other than the Judge Administrator. The President of the Court of President of the Court of Appeal, appointed Appeal is the only judge who currently produces an after the commencement of this section are to annual report. This clause does not affect any be the same as the remuneration and conditions proposition that the President wants to put forward. of a judge of the Trial Division." If he wants to put forward various proposals, he will still be able to do so. That is fine. I do not quite see Again, this is an unnecessary and unfortunate the problems that the Opposition sees in relation to provision. One might take a number of relevant this matter. Obviously, as head of the Supreme Court considerations into account in assessing the in the State, the Chief Justice ought to be remuneration levels of judges in various courts. It is communicating information about the performance of an elementary situation that the judges of the both the Trial Division and the Court of Appeal to the Supreme Court are remunerated at a higher level than Government, the Parliament and the community as a the judges of the District Court. Indeed, the whole whole. This clause provides the mechanism for that notion of a court hierarchy is reflected in the to be achieved. remuneration. Clause 118, as read, agreed to. The establishment of a permanent Appeal Court by the 1991 legislation put the Appeal Court in a Clauses 119 to 121, as read, agreed to. position where it was the court to which appeals lay Clause 122— from the Supreme Court of Queensland and Mr FOLEY (4.24 p.m.): Clause 122 amends remuneration was reflective of that place in the section 39 of the principal Act which requires hierarchy. This clause is part of an attempt by the consultation with the President of the Court of Government to water down the significance of the Appeal on the appointment of additional judges of Court of Appeal. The Government has not brought appeal. Even upon the arguments of the Attorney legislation into the Chamber to abolish the permanent and the Government itself, it is passing strange that it Court of Appeal, but it has sought to obtain a similar should have a provision which does not merely outcome through less direct methods—through require consultation with the Chief Justice, because changing the powers in respect of the arrangement the existing Act requires that. The existing Act of the business of the Court of Appeal, through requires consultation between the Minister and the changing the powers in respect of the management Chief Justice. However, it also requires consultation of the Court of Appeal and its budget and, in this with the President of the Court of Appeal on the case, remuneration. The Opposition opposes this appointment of additional judges of appeal. In other clause. words, this clause is simply an attack upon the Mr BEANLAND: From the comments of the position of the President of the Court of Appeal by member for Yeronga, one would swear that only the Government. It merely removes the requirement Appeal Court judges sat on the Appeal Court. That is for consultation with the President of the Court of not the case at all. From 1 January 1996 to the end of Appeal. One might ask why on earth a rational April 1997, 471 matters, or 54.6% of the total matters Government, motivated by proper principles to before the Appeal Court, involved one Trial Division improve judicial administration, would want to judge. A further 184 matters, or 21.3% of the total, remove the requirement for consultation with the involved two Trial Division judges. A further 106 President of the Court of Appeal when one is matters, or 12.3% of the total, involved three Trial considering appointing additional judges of appeal. Division judges, in other words, no Appeal Court This is an absurd provision and it does no credit at all judges. In all but 102 matters, representing 11.8% of to the Government. It attacks the position of the the total, at least one Trial Division judge President of the Court of Appeal and does not participated. change by one iota the requirement for consultation In the majority of instances, Trial Division with the Chief Justice. judges are sitting in Appeal Court cases. There is We have heard the argument from the Attorney- only a handful of cases in which Appeal Court judges General that his Government's motivation is to are sitting in all matters. I think it is fair to say that if restore the authority of the Chief Justice. He need Trial Division judges are sitting in those cases and not worry about that in this clause, because under being paid at a differential rate, there is something section 39 of the Supreme Court of Queensland Act wrong with the system. That is the state of play. 1991, there is already a requirement for consultation Under the old Full Court which we operated in this between the Minister and the Chief Justice and it State, they were all Supreme Court judges. 11 Jul 1997 Courts Reform Amendment Bill 2759

Regardless of whether they did Trial Division or Court of Appeal staff to that which applies to staff of Appeal Court cases, they were considered as one. In other courts. But that is the point. The point of the 1991, the former Government distinguished between reform in 1991 was to take a step forward. This takes Appeal Court and Trial Division judges. At the end of a step back. It reasserts the authority of the Justice the day, the majority of Appeal Court cases have at Department in these matters in respect of a system least one, if not more, Trial Division judges sitting on which has worked well, given flexibility and which them. I do not think that is good for the operations of has made an important contribution to the process of the court. I do not believe that the Chamber would judicial administration. consider that that is good for the operations of the The simple wording of clause 125 disposes of Appeal Court. We are not affecting anyone who is not just the management of the Court of Appeal per there currently. That is not the case. The Opposition se but also the power of the President to direct staff should not try to pretend otherwise. In the future, I of the Court of Appeal. It disposes of the statutory think that the same salaries should be paid whether power under the Act in section 52 for the President they sit in the Trial Division or on the Appeal Court. of the Court of Appeal to report to the Minister and After all, they are Supreme Court judges of this through the Minister to the Parliament. I remind State. honourable members that this is the very power Clause 124, as read, agreed to. which gave rise to the annual report which Clause 125— recommended those important reforms with respect to appeals and video links, about which we have Mr FOLEY (4.32 p.m.): In clause 125, the Bill heard. before the Committee seeks to omit the whole of Part 3, Division 3 of the Supreme Court Act of 1991. This is a step backwards. This is another It seeks to omit all of sections 46 to 54 concerning example of turning back the clock, and it is a triumph the management of the Court Appeal by the of the Executive over the judiciary. This is purely and President. This power given to the Court of Appeal simply about the Executive clawing back President by virtue of Part 3 Division 3 was a novel administrative power which had been given to the one. It included the power to select staff of the judiciary with respect to the management of an Court of Appeal other than the associates of the important court reform, namely, the Court of Appeal. judges of appeal. It included the power to engage on It is a retrograde step and it will be vigorously behalf of the State consultants for the purposes of opposed by the Opposition. the Court of Appeal on such terms and conditions as Mr BEANLAND: This was another half-baked the President determines. In other words, it enabled Labor Party exercise from 1991. The staff at the the President of the Court of Appeal to manage that Court of Appeal are like all other staff within the court's budget. courts in that they are under the Public Service Act. It is a novel provision, because most budget They are currently under the Public Service Act, and management in courts is done by the Justice under these amendments they will still be under the Department. That has been the conventional Public Service Act. Under the Financial approach. In the 1991 reform which established the Administration and Audit Act, the Director-General of new permanent Court of Appeal, it was the policy the Department of Justice is the accountable and objective of the Goss Labor Government to achieve responsible officer. He has been and still is. In spite reforms to streamline judicial administration. Judicial of the member for Yeronga's rhetoric of a few administration has been in a most exciting stage of moments ago, I point out that the former Government development over the past 10 years. There has been did not put in place the accountable officer being the much debate as to whether different models of President of the Court of Appeal or someone else. administration should apply to our courts and The fact is that the Director-General of the whether a statutory commission should be set up Department of Justice is the accountable officer and independent of Government to administer the day-to- has those responsibilities. In relation to those day running of the courts. That would not touch aspects, nothing has changed by these amendments. upon the exercise of judicial powers and functions The former Government's attempt was a half-baked but upon matters of court administration. one. This is not transferring responsibility back to the Department of Justice; it is already there. I do not wish to go into all of those fascinating debates, but that was a step forward. It conferred a This clause relates to other matters, such as the power upon the President of the Court of Appeal. annual report. A few moments ago, the Parliament This has nothing to do with the argument which the voted to have the Court of Appeal annual report go Attorney continues to put that this is somehow a Bill to the Chief Justice and then to the Parliament. This designed to restore the authority of the Chief clause amends that section, amongst other aspects. Justice. This does not restore the authority of the It also makes way for amendments to certain aspects Chief Justice in this respect. It restores the authority of administration, for example, in relation to the Chief of the Director-General of the Department of Justice, Justice and so forth. The President of the Court of because this puts back in the hands of the Director- Appeal has the power to be responsible for the General of the Department of Justice the powers Court of Appeal. Other courts are in the same currently exercised by the President of the Court of situation with respect to these amendments. There is Appeal, the honourable Tony Fitzgerald. nothing new about these amendments. It is fair to say that that was a novel step. It is As he said, the member may have set out to do also fair to say that, if the Government's Bill is passed certain things, but he did not achieve those things in on this point, it will return the situation applying to the legislation. At the moment, it could probably be 2760 Courts Reform Amendment Bill 11 Jul 1997 argued that perhaps there are two masters. Certainly, Resolved in the affirmative. the Director-General of the Department of Justice is Clauses 126 and 127, as read, agreed to. one of those masters. The degree to which the President of the Court of Appeal is a master is Clause 128— another matter that is open for debate and Mr FOLEY (4.49 p.m.): Clause 128 makes a discussion. If the member wanted to make the number of amendments to the provisions of section President of the Court of Appeal the master, he 60 concerning the arrangement of business of the should have done so. He did not do so. I want to Trial Division. The existing provisions regarding the make that perfectly clear. The 1991 Act was not a arrangement of business of the Trial Division give to step forward as far as that is concerned. If the then the Senior Judge Administrator a number of powers Government wanted to achieve that particular to do things necessary or convenient for the outcome, then there was a way to deal with it. administration of the court in the Trial Division for This is not an abuse by the Executive of the ensuring the orderly and expeditious exercise of the judiciary, because the former Government did not jurisdiction and powers of the court in the Trial make those appropriate changes that it indicated it Division. Those powers were put there for a good would make back in 1991. The former Government reason. They were put there in order to get reform. might have started to go that way, but it did not They were put there in order to speed up the achieve anything like that at all, because all staff are system. They were put there in response to the under the Public Service Act. Of course, this in no heartfelt desire of many litigants to have a better way affects judges' associates. Employees of other system. courts are covered under the Public Service Act. What the Government is seeking to do in this This simply makes it clear that this is exactly the clause is to make the exercise of these powers same as other courts while, at the same time, subject to new section 13A, that is, the overriding rectifying matters such as the annual report and a responsibilities of the Chief Justice. But as the host of other issues. I commend the amendment to member for Lytton pointed out, the task of carrying the Committee. out administrative arrangements is quite a different Mr FOLEY: Among the current powers which one from the judicial leadership of the court. This is will be repealed if this clause is made law is the concerned with managing and arranging the business power of the President of the Court of Appeal to of the Trial Division, and the powers conferred upon select staff, the power of the Court of Appeal to the Senior Judge Administrator are there for a very engage consultants and the power of the Court of important social and legal purpose. Again, we see in Appeal President to direct staff. All of those powers the case brought to the Parliament by the are expressed in the very clearest of terms under the Government not even a claim by the Government Supreme Court of Queensland Act. It is no news to that this will lessen the cost of cases or will improve say that the staff of the Court of Appeal are the speed with which cases can be dealt. This is employed under the Public Service Management and simply part of turning back the clock—removing the Employment Act, because that is set out in section reforms that were put in place and turning things 49 of the very Act passed by this Parliament in 1991 back to the way they were. It is a step backwards which expressly provided that they remain appointed with respect to case management, and the or employed under the Public Service Management Opposition will oppose it. and Employment Act. This is about stripping away Mr BEANLAND: That is a lot of nonsense. As from the President of the Court of Appeal a most the member for Yeronga knows, he is proposing to important management function exercised by the do away with the section that requires the Senior President of the Court of Appeal, and it is a most Judge Administrator to submit an annual report to the retrograde step. Chief Justice. A number of other sections are also Question—That clause 125, as read, stand part covered by this clause. It deals with a range of of the Bill—put; and the Committee divided— issues related to the arrangement of business of the Trial Division. AYES, 43—Baumann, Beanland, Borbidge, Connor, Cooper, Cunningham, Davidson, Elliott, FitzGerald, Of course it is not necessary to have these Gamin, Gilmore, Goss J. N., Grice, Harper, Healy, Hegarty, particular sections within the clauses because these Hobbs, Horan, Johnson, Lester, Lingard, Littleproud, sections are adequately covered by other sections— McCauley, Malone, Perrett, Quinn, Radke, Rowell, the fact that the Senior Judge Administrator is Santoro, Sheldon, Simpson, Slack, Stephan, Stoneman, responsible for the arrangement of the business of Tanti, Turner, Veivers, Warwick, Watson, Wilson, Woolmer. Tellers: Springborg, Carroll the Trial Division and that he is responsible to the Chief Justice for that. It is not necessary to have the NOES, 43—Ardill, Barton, Beattie, Bird, Bligh, Braddy, sections that have been included previously for the Bredhauer, Briskey, Campbell, D'Arcy, De Lacy, Edmond, Elder, Foley, Fouras, Gibbs, Goss W. K., Hamill, Hayward, good orderly conduct of the courts. Hollis, Lavarch, Lucas, McElligott, McGrady, Mackenroth, Mr FOLEY: I think the Attorney may have been Milliner, Mulherin, Nunn, Nuttall, Palaszczuk, Pearce, speaking with regard to clause 129. My comments Purcell, Roberts, Robertson, Rose, Schwarten, Smith, are directed to clause 128 on this occasion. That Spence, Sullivan J. H., Welford, Wells. Tellers: goes not to the issue of the annual report or indeed Livingstone, Sullivan T. B. to those matters set out at sections 61 to 67 of the Pair: Mitchell, Dollin Supreme Court of Queensland Act. This goes to the The numbers being equal, the Chairman cast his central task of the Senior Judge Administrator, vote with the Ayes. namely, the arrangement of the business of the Trial 11 Jul 1997 Courts Reform Amendment Bill 2761

Division. The business of the Trial Division is to help judges—practising judges—in a way which was ordinary citizens get cheaper and speedier access to novel and designed to enable the system to avail justice. That is what the reform was about. This itself of a wealth of experience and expertise. Let me attempt to turn the clock back is unfortunate and will deal with the argument advanced by the be opposed. Government. The Government says that it wishes to Question—That clause 128, as read, stand part abolish the Litigation Reform Commission because of the Bill—put; and the Committee divided— the process of reform is one which is really a matter for the Executive to undertake rather than the AYES, 43—Baumann, Beanland, Borbidge, Connor, judiciary. I see the honourable member for Lockyer Cooper, Cunningham, Davidson, Elliott, FitzGerald, nodding in sage agreement. If that is the argument, Gamin, Gilmore, Goss J. N., Grice, Harper, Healy, Hegarty, then why have the functions of that commission been Hobbs, Horan, Johnson, Lester, Lingard, Littleproud, McCauley, Malone, Perrett, Quinn, Radke, Rowell, transferred to the Law Reform Commission? For that Santoro, Sheldon, Simpson, Slack, Stephan, Stoneman, body is itself chaired by none other than a Supreme Tanti, Turner, Veivers, Warwick, Watson, Wilson, Court judge. Woolmer. Tellers: Springborg, Carroll The truth of the matter is that the Government NOES, 43—Ardill, Barton, Beattie, Bird, Bligh, Braddy, has no valid argument with respect to the so-called Bredhauer, Briskey, Campbell, D'Arcy, De Lacy, Edmond, separation of powers issue. This is simply a specious Elder, Foley, Fouras, Gibbs, Goss W. K., Hamill, Hayward, excuse to turn back the clock on an important Labor Hollis, Lavarch, Lucas, McElligott, McGrady, Mackenroth, Government reform and an excuse to take judicial Milliner, Mulherin, Nunn, Nuttall, Palaszczuk, Pearce, administration back to what the Government sees as Purcell, Roberts, Robertson, Rose, Schwarten, Smith, the good old days and back to what many ordinary Spence, Sullivan J. H., Welford, Wells. Tellers: Livingstone, Sullivan T. B. people seeking access to justice see as the bad old days. Litigation reform is important if we want people Pair: Dollin, Mitchell to achieve the early resolution of disputes. It is in the The numbers being equal, the Chairman cast his interests of all concerned. The Litigation Reform vote with the Ayes. Commission was very fast establishing a reputation of world renown in this field. It is one of the Resolved in the affirmative. tragedies of this Government's period of office that it Clauses 129 to 131 as read, agreed to. is wrecking an institution which was in a position to Clause 132— make a good contribution and is turning back the clock to a situation in which complacency prevails. Mr FOLEY (5 p.m.): The Opposition opposes this clause. Clause 132 omits part 7 of the principal Mr BEANLAND: In relation to the Litigation Act, that is, sections 71 to 93 of the Supreme Court Reform Commission—contrary to the assertions of of Queensland Act. In short, in one fell swoop this the honourable member for Yeronga, the brief given clause abolishes the Litigation Reform Commission. to the Litigation Reform Commission was much wider This clause gives legal sanction to that which was than reform of the Rules of Court. The member done by the brutal instrument of a budget cut 12 knows that full well. The Supreme Court Act gives months ago when the Attorney-General and Minister the Litigation Reform Commission wide-ranging for Justice simply cut off funding to the Litigation functions to make recommendations on— Reform Commission. That commission was a novel (a) the structure of the court system of step in judicial administration. Here we had the Queensland; establishment of a commission composed principally (b) court practices and procedures including of judges of the Court of Appeal to assist in the the law of evidence; reform of litigation. (c) the administration of the courts of The cause of litigation reform is one which Queensland; should be of interest to all honourable members. Perhaps the greatest challenge facing our legal (d) simplification and modernisation of all Acts system is the problem of ordinary citizens being able and statutory rules relating to matters to afford to have their case heard by a court and not mentioned in (a), (b) and (c) and also the having to wait half a lifetime for the court to hear and common law generally; and determine the matter. It is important that there be (e) other matters referred to it by the Minister. reforms to litigation so as to make the handling of In respect of all of those matters—except for cases speedier and less expensive, for when litigants the reform of the common law—the Act provides that know that there is an early trial date, that in itself it is mandatory to obtain a report and encourages settlement, encourages alternative recommendation from the commission before taking dispute resolution and encourages the parties to any action with regard to those matters. The focus on the real issues in dispute and to resolve the Litigation Reform Commission represents matters. It was an unusual creature of statute. It was intervention by a body composed of judges in the set up as a reform in order to give effect to the Executive processes of Government and, in desire of the Queensland people for a better particular, the development of legislation. The approach to the court process. member for Yeronga knows that. He gets up in this Nothing more symbolises the complacency of Chamber and prattles on about the separation of the Government to the task of access to justice than powers when it suits him. I will have more to say the repeal of the Litigation Reform Commission. Here about that in a moment. This represents a breach of we had the opportunity for input from senior the principle of judicial independence and separation 2762 Courts Reform Amendment Bill 11 Jul 1997 of powers, as well as being yet another obstacle in that one year we had the Cremation Act, the the process of the preparation of legislation. Coroners Act and something else referred to it. Recently, there was the case before the High The Litigation Reform Commission was set up Court involving the Hindmarsh Bridge and Kable. with great expectations by the former Government. That case held that the State Supreme Court judges Unfortunately, those expectations were not fulfilled. could not be accorded power and authority in areas It did a great deal of work; I am not decrying that. pertaining to Executive functions. The member for However, there was the interference by the judiciary Yeronga well knows that. This matter could certainly in the Executive arm of Government—there is no fall within that ambit. In order to overcome the question about that—with these matters being problems associated with structures and functions, I referred to it. Of course, that raises issues about the believe that this is by far the best course of action. separation of powers. Only a little while ago—an hour or two This Government is determined to get on with ago—this Parliament voted and approved the the uniform court rules, which was part of the primary Budget. The Budget contains no funds for the business of the Litigation Reform Commission. We Litigation Reform Commission, nor are there any have taken unto ourselves the responsibility for judges currently on the Litigation Reform getting on with that. This amendment needs to go Commission. If the member's amendment were to be forward to ensure that the amendments to the passed, it would be a body that would exist in uniform court rules for the courts of this State are statute only and would impede the moving able to be put in place expeditiously so that we can forward—and we hear so much about progress—of achieve better access to justice in this State. the uniform court rules, which is important to this Mr FOLEY: Significantly, the Attorney did not Government. The member for Yeronga's Government venture to reply to my question as to why, if his was in office for six and a half years. For six and a argument about the separation of powers was valid, half years it did nothing about the uniform court he was referring all of those functions to a body rules. This Government is determined to get on with chaired by a Supreme Court judge. I think the it, and we are getting on with it. We are not going to Attorney-General's silence in the circumstances is be impeded by this very important task, because little quite wise, because there is no answer. The had been done for this primary task by the Litigation absurdity of his argument would be even more Reform Commission; some work had been done, but apparent were he to seek to defend that which is little in the overall amount of work—the gross patently contradictory. material of work—that is required to be performed in In respect of the reform of the court rules, we order to bring this matter to fruition. now have the odd situation in which the Rules of All work touching upon the simplification and Court of every common law jurisdiction in the world modernisation of any statute or rules relating to the are made by the judges, developed by the judges, courts would have been frustrated were the approved by the judges and then proclaimed through Litigation Reform Commission to remain. For those the Governor in Council; but in this jurisdiction they reasons, this Government is very determined that we are being worked on now by the Executive, by the must get on and progress forward. For example, the policy unit in the Department of Justice. It is truly member for Lockyer, the Leader of Government puzzling to understand the Attorney's grasp of that Business in the House, mentioned a few moments concept. It does seem that there is something about ago the matters being referred to it. the doctrine of the separation of powers that causes coalition Governments enormous difficulties. It I looked up the annual report of the Litigation seems to bring on bouts of confusion on their part. Reform Commission for 1994-95 just to see how many pieces of legislation were forwarded to it. It I will deal with the Attorney's reference to a mentions things such as the Motor Vehicle Insurance number of matters that were referred to the Litigation Act; the Personal Injuries Proceedings Bill; proposed Reform Commission, such as the Motor Vehicle amendments to the Supreme Court Act; proposed Insurance Act and changes to the Evidence Act and amendments to the Legal Practitioners Act; the changes to the position of victims of crime. If, for Courts Legislation Amendment Act; proposed example, one is changing the way in which litigation amendments to the Evidence Act; the Crime Victims is brought in respect of persons who are injured in Compensation Act; proposed amendments to the motor vehicle accidents, which is what the Motor Common Law Practice Act; Rules of Court: Vehicle Insurance Act did, I would have thought that Trans-Tasman Proceedings; the model Criminal it was a jolly sensible idea to refer such legislation for Code—and we have heard a bit about that comment by the judges who, after all, sit day in and lately—and the Oaths Act. It was not realised that day out in the courts where such cases are heard. members opposite were supportive of that model Similarly, if one is changing the rules of evidence to Criminal Code so closely. The report also mentions be applied in courts, is it not sensible to have input the Local Government (Aboriginal Lands) Amendment from the judges who will have to administer those Bill; the Model Mental Impairment Bill; the Private rules of evidence in the courts? Employment Agents Bill; the Aboriginal and As to the position of victims of crime—it Community Government Bill; the Model Local Law on obviously has not occurred to the Attorney that we Protection of Vegetation; the Coastal Protection and need to change profoundly the way in which our Management Bill; the Criminal Law General Offences courts deal with victims of crime. For far too long Bill; and the Courts Legislation (Video-Link) they have been marginalised and neglected. That is Amendment Bill. I do not see it here, but I remember why the Labor Government introduced the Criminal 11 Jul 1997 Revocation of Marine Park Areas 2763

Offence Victims Act, which was passed by this Santoro, Sheldon, Simpson, Slack, Stephan, Stoneman, Parliament in 1995, to get some change in the way Tanti, Turner, Veivers, Warwick, Watson, Wilson, that victims of crime and matters and issues affecting Woolmer. Tellers: Springborg, Carroll them are handled by the courts as well as by the NOES, 43—Ardill, Barton, Beattie, Bird, Bligh, Braddy, police, the prosecution, Corrective Services staff Bredhauer, Briskey, Campbell, D'Arcy, De Lacy, Edmond, and so on. In his argument, the Honourable the Elder, Foley, Fouras, Gibbs, Goss W. K., Hamill, Hayward, Attorney-General simply advances evidence, all of Hollis, Lavarch, Lucas, McElligott, McGrady, Mackenroth, which goes to support the proposition that the Milliner, Mulherin, Nunn, Nuttall, Palaszczuk, Pearce, Purcell, Roberts, Robertson, Rose, Schwarten, Smith, Litigation Reform Commission had a most valuable Spence, Sullivan J. H., Welford, Wells. Tellers: role to play. Livingstone, Sullivan T. B. I was amused at the Attorney's reliance in Pair: Mitchell, Dollin desperation upon the Hindmarsh Bridge case, a case The numbers being equal, the Temporary turning, as the member for Lytton interjected earlier, Chairman (Mr J. N. Goss) cast his vote with the Ayes. on a matter of the construction of the Commonwealth Constitution. In desperation, he Resolved in the affirmative. turned to that case for some support for the Clauses 133 to 143, as read, agreed to. distinction between judicial and Executive functions. Of course there should be a distinction between Mr FOLEY: The member for Sandgate has judicial and Executive functions; however, it is about reminded me that today is Gough Whitlam's birthday. time we did things better. It is about time we made I am sure that all honourable members who love sure that the approach of "business as usual" does justice will wish him happy birthday. not simply continue. It is about time we had the Schedule, as read, agreed to. benefit of input from experienced and senior judges Bill reported, with an amendment. to improve the capacity of persons to bring their cases on before the court quickly and without becoming bankrupt. Third Reading Mr BEANLAND: It is obvious that the Labor Bill, on motion of Mr Beanland, by leave, read a Party will do anything and everything to frustrate and third time. stop this Government from getting the uniform civil court rules into place. It had six and a half years of failure, and it will do anything to stop this REVOCATION OF MARINE PARK AREAS Government delivering those uniform court rules. Hon. B. G. LITTLEPROUD (Western The fact that we are getting on with it must hurt the Downs—Minister for Environment) (5.26 p.m.): I member for Yeronga dearly. The judges will be fully move— consulted, as the member knows. There is no need "That this House— to throw up furphies, as he likes to do. The court rules are being developed in conjunction with a wide (a) agrees that the proposal requesting the range of people, including the judiciary. A lot of work Governor in Council to revoke by a on the court rules has been carried out by the Regulation the setting apart and judiciary since 1983. When they are completed, they declaration as Marine Park under the will be given to the judges to fully consult and to go Marine Parks Act 1982 of— through. No doubt they will want to make some other (i) the Moreton Bay Marine Park, as amendments and we will go from there. defined in the Marine Parks (Moreton The point is that we are getting on with it. This Bay) Order 1993, being the area of amendment allows us to get on with the very tidal waters and tidal land, other than important task of making access to justice easier in alienated tidal land, outlined in red this State. That is something that the member and shaded in blue on Map MP2, opposite talks about. I find that the Labor Party is Sheets 1 to 14; and great on the chat, but very poor on the action. We (ii) the Pumicestone Passage Marine are getting on with it and we will be delivering. Park, according to the instrument, Mr FOLEY: This Government is getting on made as an Order in Council and with the job of turning back the clock. published in the Gazette on 1 February 1986 at page 426, being Mr BEANLAND: That is another outrageous, tidal lands exclusive of any alienated frivolous statement by the member for Yeronga. We lands and tidal waters lying in get them all the time from him—cheap throwaway Pumicestone Passage and lines. That was very cheap. It was a cheap political associated waterways extending shot. They call him "one question too many" Matt. He from Caloundra Bar in the north to a has done it again. line adjoining Toorbul Point with the Question—That clause 132, as read, stand part southern extremity of Bribie Island; of the Bill—put; and the Committee divided— be carried out, and AYES, 43—Baumann, Beanland, Borbidge, Connor, (b) That Mr Speaker convey a copy of this Cooper, Cunningham, Davidson, Elliott, FitzGerald, Gamin, Gilmore, Grice, Harper, Healy, Hegarty, Hobbs, resolution to the Minister for submission Horan, Johnson, Laming, Lester, Lingard, Littleproud, to Her Excellency the Governor in McCauley, Malone, Perrett, Quinn, Radke, Rowell, Council." 2764 Revocation of Marine Park Areas 11 Jul 1997

In moving this motion, I reiterate that the marine example, the Pine, Brisbane and Logan Rivers, and parks of Queensland are vital to ensure proper Tingalpa, Eprapah and Weinam Creeks. However, management of marine areas of high conservation tidal sections of a number of tributaries were already value by protecting important habitats and fauna declared as fish habitat areas under the Fisheries Act species while allowing ecologically sustainable 1994. Accordingly, it was decided at that time to multiple use. The proposed marine park revocations reflect the conservation significance of these areas are treated with the utmost seriousness. For that by including them in the marine park. Such streams reason, all options have been thoroughly included the Caboolture River and Burpengary, Little investigated before taking this proposal to the Burpengary and Coombabah Creeks. Governor in Council. As part of the process of redefining the The changes proposed to the marine park boundary, a detailed examination of the existing boundaries are relatively minor and are not boundaries was undertaken and the appropriateness considered to detract from the parks' conservation of all boundaries was reviewed to confirm their values. These revocation proposals have been values as being relevant to the marine park. During endorsed by the Director-General of the Department this process, a number of anomalies were identified of Environment. Simply stated, the proposal involves and, as a result, some minor additions and deletions the revocation of Pumicestone Passage Marine Park are proposed. and Moreton Bay Marine Park, amalgamating the two In addition to a number of minor adjustments to areas and redeclaring the new area as Moreton Bay the boundary due to issues such as the original Marine Park with a detailed written boundary inclusion of freehold areas, the major exclusion areas description. In addition, as part of this process, the include upstream reaches of tidal creeks. The upper opportunity has been taken to review the areas of tidal streams are relatively remote from the appropriateness of the existing boundaries resulting bay. For example, the Caboolture River is tidal up to in some relatively minor additions and subtractions. 19 kilometres. In such areas, the boundary has been Pumicestone Passage Marine Park was rationalised by excluding the upstream areas but declared in 1986 and covers tidal lands and tidal retaining wetland and estuarine areas near the bay. It waters, excluding alienated land, within Pumicestone is considered that the management of the habitat of Passage and associated waterways extending from the upstream areas of the Caboolture River and the the Caloundra bar in the north to the southern Burpengary, Little Burpengary and Coombabah extremity of Bribie Island. The boundary was Creeks can be left to the department responsible for originally defined by a simple description and an A4 administering the Fisheries Act, leaving the size map. A zoning plan was approved Department of Environment to concentrate on simultaneously with the declaration of Pumicestone management of the bay proper. Accordingly, Passage Marine Park. Coombabah Creek upstream of Lake Coombabah The declaration of Moreton Bay Marine Park and the upper reaches of the Caboolture River and did not occur until February 1993. This marine park Burpengary and Little Burpengary Creeks have been generally includes tidal lands, exclusive of alienated omitted. lands, and tidal waters, to the extent of Queensland In the vicinity of Toondah Harbour, the existing waters, other than those in Pumicestone Passage marine park boundary includes an area of car park Marine Park, between the Caloundra bar in the north that has been reclaimed and a previous dredge spoil and the southern end of South Stradbroke Island. A pond which has been recolonised by mangroves. zoning plan has not yet been declared for the The revocation and boundary redefinition will allow Moreton Bay Marine Park. However, a draft zoning the issue of a lease to Redland Shire Council and the plan for this marine park was released for public necessary State Government approvals to enable the review in December 1993. The draft zoning plan proposed redevelopment of this important transport covered both Pumicestone Passage Marine Park and facility to proceed. Moreton Bay Marine Park and included a proposal The Boondall Wetlands contains important for their amalgamation. Preparation of the zoning plan wetland areas, but it is largely freehold land owned is now complete and I intend to submit it to Cabinet by Brisbane City Council. These areas were shortly with a recommendation that it be forwarded originally included in the marine park without the to the Governor in Council for approval. formal agreement of the Brisbane City Council. The The boundary for Moreton Bay Marine Park, council was approached to obtain its agreement to which was described as a line on a map, has proved the inclusion of this area in the marine park but has impracticable and the Office of the Crown Solicitor decided against this request. Accordingly, the area has advised that a written metes and bounds has been omitted. description would be preferable. Also, as In checking the boundary, a number of adjacent Pumicestone Passage Marine Park and Moreton Bay areas considered suitable for addition to the marine Marine Park use different methods to describe their park were identified. Following consultation with the boundaries, it is proposed to redefine the boundary agencies involved, a number of these areas have for both areas to ensure that the proposed been included. The Redland Shire Council has amalgamated marine park has a consistent written freehold title to a parcel of land at Wellington Point boundary description. known as the Geoff Skinner Reserve. A large portion When Moreton Bay Marine Park was originally of the reserve is tidal and contains significant marine declared, the boundary was generally restricted to conservation values. The reserve was named in the estuarine areas of streams entering the bay, for recognition of the late Geoff Skinner, a former 11 Jul 1997 Revocation of Marine Park Areas 2765 councillor of the Redland Shire. In fact, I knew him The proposed revocation of the Pumicestone through APEX. As a means of recognising the Passage and Moreton Bay Marine Parks is the first conservation significance of the reserve, the council step in the process of amalgamating the two marine agreed to the inclusion of tidal sections of the parks and redefining the boundary of the reserve within the marine park. Inclusion of the amalgamated marine park. As part of this process, reserve will not diminish this recognition or the status some fine-tuning of the marine park boundary has of the reserve but will provide additional protection occurred, involving some additions and omissions as for the tidal areas. I have indicated. As provided for under the Marine Mr Welford interjected. Parks Act 1982, the Governor in Council may, by regulation, revoke the setting apart and declaration Mr LITTLEPROUD: The name just cropped of a marine park. Before this can occur, however, the up. Legislative Assembly must pass a resolution Another area of freehold tidal land owned by requesting the Governor in Council to make the the council which is of conservation significance is revocation. Nevertheless, the revocation does not the Point Halloran Conservation Reserve. This area formally take place until the regulation has been had been under pressure from development over a approved by the Governor in Council. It is intended number of years and the property was purchased by that simultaneously with the revocation regulation, the Redland Shire Council in recognition of its the Governor in Council be requested to approve important conservation values. In recognition of the and declare, by regulation, the amalgamated Moreton conservation significance of this area, the council Bay Marine Park. agreed to its inclusion within the marine park. The Government has been criticised by some One addition of note is the tidal area of freehold sectors for the delay in implementing a zoning plan land on Jabiru Island, owned freehold by the Gold for the Moreton Bay Marine Park. The tabling of Coast City Council and designated the Phil Hill these proposals for the revocation of the Environmental Park in recognition of a former chief Pumicestone Passage and Moreton Bay Marine engineer of the Gold Coast City. The area supports a Parks is the first step in the process of amalgamating thriving mangrove community and is worthy of the two marine parks, thus allowing the subsequent inclusion in the marine park. The existing marine park declaration of the Moreton Bay Marine Park Zoning excludes a section of Coombabah Creek between Plan over the amalgamated marine park. This measure the Coomera River and Saltwater Creek. While some clearly demonstrates the Government's commitment development has occurred, primarily along the to the ecologically sustainable use and management eastern side of the creek, the area contains of Moreton Bay. I strongly support these proposals significant conservation values and removing this and commend them for the approval of the House. break will improve the Government's ability to Mr HEGARTY (Redlands) (5.36 p.m.): I second properly manage the marine park. the motion moved by the Minister for the Pumicestone Passage contains areas of major Environment. In speaking to the motion, I emphasise conservation significance and, in recognition of this, that these revocations are primarily procedural subsequent to the declaration of the Pumicestone matters allowing the amalgamation of the Passage Marine Park, the Department of Environment Pumicestone Passage and Moreton Bay Marine purchased several areas of freehold land adjacent to Parks and redefinition of their boundaries, with the Pumicestone Passage, substantial portions of which addition and deletion of a number of relatively small are tidal. In recognition of their conservation values, areas. the tidal portions of these properties are to be The Pumicestone Passage and Moreton Bay included in the marine park. Marine Parks were declared in 1986 and 1993 The original boundary of the Moreton Bay respectively. However, different methods were used Marine Park was drawn up at short notice. In the to define their boundaries. In addition, the definitions process of consulting the various agencies affected, used were relatively imprecise. It is therefore some areas were excluded due to misunderstandings proposed to redefine the boundaries using a metes as to the implications of inclusion. After further and bounds description. This will ensure that the consultation with the affected agencies, several amalgamated marine park has a consistent written agreed to the inclusion of such areas in the marine boundary description. As part of this process, the park. In addition, some other areas were identified for opportunity has also been taken to rationalise the inclusion for their conservation values or for the boundary by adding and removing a number of improved management of the marine park. These relatively small areas. include: the 50 metre strip surrounding the Redcliffe As the Honourable the Minister has indicated, it Peninsula, the 20 metre exclusion area along the is intended that the redeclaration of the amalgamated western side of Cleveland Point, the 20 metre marine park will occur simultaneously with the exclusion area adjacent to Raby Bay special lease, revocation. In this way, the area will remain the 50 metre exclusion area adjacent to the Brisbane continuously within a marine park. These measures Airport, and the tidal areas of the special lease will ensure that the bay's values continue to be forming part of the Newport Waterways canal protected, while still accommodating a wide range of development at Scarborough. For ease of activities. With the development of the Moreton Bay management, the southern boundary of the marine Marine Park Zoning Plan now complete, park adjacent to South Stradbroke Island has been amalgamation of the two marine parks will also adjusted to extend to the northern wall of the Gold facilitate the declaration of the Marine Park Zoning Coast seaway. Plan over the amalgamated marine park. 2766 Revocation of Marine Park Areas 11 Jul 1997

I now propose to comment on some of the I expect that the Opposition will be most specific changes proposed. As the Honourable the supportive of this motion. I note that the declaration Minister has indicated, the upper reaches of tidal of the Pumicestone Passage Marine Park occurred streams are relatively remote from the bay and only during the term of the previous National/Liberal serve to distract management resources away from Government. However, the declaration of the the bay proper. For example, the Caboolture River is Moreton Bay Marine Park occurred during the term tidal up to 19 kilometres, whereas only the first few of the last Labor Government. The Opposition kilometres contain significant mangrove wetlands. In strongly supported the marine park concept for such streams, the upstream areas have been Moreton Bay whilst in Government and I look excluded, but the important mangrove and seagrass forward to its continued support for this initiative. I habitats close to the bay have been retained. fully support the comments of the Honourable the Also, within Coombabah Creek, the marine park Minister and am very happy to second his motion. I boundary extends along the creek above commend the motion for the approval of the House. Coombabah Lake to the tidal limit. However, Mr WELFORD (Everton) (5.41 p.m.): On a upstream of the Gold Coast highway, the adjacent Friday night, one would think that when the lands have been largely committed for high density Government arranges speeches for backbenchers it residential and commercial development. For could arrange short ones. The staff prepared a example, the new Helensvale railway station and the speech for the Minister and then got a backbencher proposed Helensvale shopping centre will be located to say the same thing only in twice as many words. nearby. The use of these areas for such intense That has kept us here for a bit longer on a Friday development is seen as being incompatible with the night. management of the area as a marine park and, I had two concerns about this proposed accordingly, this area has been excluded. revocation. One was that we would be resolving to In reviewing the boundary, a number of areas revoke two areas of marine park, yet the resolution adjacent to the marine park were considered suitable would not provide for the declaration of the new for addition. Following consultation with the aggregate zone of the Pumicestone Passage and agencies involved, several such areas have been Moreton Bay Marine Parks. However, out of the included. Two parcels of freehold land owned by the goodness of its spirit, the Opposition is giving the Redland Shire Council were identified as being Government the benefit of the doubt—something particularly suited for inclusion in the marine park. which is commonly given to the Government these The Geoff Skinner Reserve at Wellington Point was days, probably too commonly—and we take on trust established by the council in recognition of the late the Minister's assurance that he will not gazette the Geoff Skinner, a former councillor of the Redland revocation that this resolution provides for until he Shire. A large portion of the reserve is tidal and simultaneously gazettes, subsequent to a Governor contains significant conservation values, including a in Council resolution, the declaration of the major migratory shorebird roost site. The Point aggregate Moreton Bay Marine Park. Halloran Conservation Reserve at Victoria Point is an As the previous speaker said, it is true that the area of conservation significance which was also Pumicestone Passage Marine Park was gazetted recognised by the council and purchased several before the previous Labor Government came to years ago to protect these values. As a means of office. We progressed the preparation of the further recognising their conservation significance strategic plan and zoning plan for the Moreton Bay and protecting these areas, the council agreed to the Marine Park, recognising the enormous relevance inclusion of the tidal sections in the marine park. and contribution that Moreton Bay provides both in The Phil Hill Environmental Park is situated on environmental and economic terms to south-east Jabiru Island on an area of freehold land owned by Queensland and to the State as a whole. the Gold Coast City Council. Jabiru Island is a small, My second concern about this revocation largely mangrove-covered island situated at the related to the exclusion of some of the areas that junction of the Coomera River and the Coombabah were previously identified for inclusion in the zoning Creek. The environmental park was established by plan of the Moreton Bay Marine Park, in particular the the city council and named in recognition of the upstream reaches of tidal creeks. I thank the Minister services of a former chief engineer. The area for the opportunity to be briefed by his departmental supports a thriving mangrove community and is officers in relation to those matters. As I have already worthy of inclusion in the marine park. indicated, the Opposition will not be objecting to this At present, the Moreton Bay Marine Park and revocation proceeding. However, I do sound a note Pumicestone Passage Marine Park are separate of caution in relation to some of the areas that were marine parks and their amalgamation will simplify removed because they were upstream reaches of management of the two areas. The amalgamation was some creeks. pre-empted when the draft Moreton Bay Marine Park Two areas of interest to me are the Caboolture Zoning Plan was released for public comment in River and Coombabah Creek. In both cases, it seems 1993, and there is broad community support for the to me that, at least at the time when the original proposal. In fact, through the extensive public boundaries were identified, there was good reason consultation process which has occurred, it was for including those upstream reaches within the evident that there is strong community support for management of the marine park. That is largely the marine park and a desire for declaration of the because the development occurring in those areas zoning plan as soon as possible. was so rapid, and to this very day it is probably of 11 Jul 1997 Revocation of Marine Park Areas 2767 such significance that it is very likely to have an That can be combined with the very disturbing impact on the water quality of the estuaries and some recent trend, which I have noted and which I flagged impact on Moreton Bay. I am a little cautious about in the Estimates debate with this Minister, whereby agreeing to this. I suspect that the bay can be the Department of Local Government and Planning properly and largely well managed within the appears, on my assessment, to be routinely boundaries that the Minister now proposes. dispensing with environmental impact assessment However, I sound a note of caution that I would requirements for large-scale developments, including not have thought it automatic that, because these are some developments in respect of which this upstream reaches that are a significant distance—in Minister's department has recommended that some cases up to 15 kilometres or more—from the assessment was required. It is routinely dispensing bay, they do not have a significant relevance to the with those assessments in circumstances such that, if management of impacts on the bay, particularly if the practice continues, south-east Queensland risks those reaches of the streams are in areas where there dying the death of a thousand cuts when it comes to are potential developments or other semi-industrial environmental management. activities which will result in pollution in those It is just not good enough to say that because, upstream reaches which will impact on the bay later even if one development appears not to have of on. itself significant environmental impacts, there are Mr Littleproud interjected. cumulative impacts when hundreds of such developments are being allowed to proceed without Mr WELFORD: I hope it does. These things a proper environmental assessment. That is precisely need to be considered carefully. In relation to what is happening. In the Estimates of the Coombabah Creek in particular, enormous Department of Local Government and Planning, the development is occurring on the northern end of the director-general indicated that, over the past 12 Gold Coast, south and inland from Sanctuary Cove. months, of 360 applications under the Local For example, I refer to the Oyster Cove development Government Planning and Environment Act for and the Magnetic Quays development, both of which advice from that department as to whether an EIS in my view are entirely unsustainable in ecological was required, on only 129 of those occasions were terms. That is not a criticism of the developers, who terms of reference issued by the Department of Local are going about exercising their legal rights over Government and Planning. lands which they have obviously been given the right to develop. I urge the Minister to have a look at I accept that that is not within the statutory those developments. They are very close to Ramsar authority of this Minister's department. However, it wetlands. As the Minister may well be aware, a golf just seems to me to be an extraordinary situation that course has been proposed which would abut a the Department of Environment in some cases is Ramsar wetland in the Coombabah Creek and ignored in terms of the referral of these matters for Coomera River areas, the land surrounding which is advice. In some cases, it is overruled when the being developed now. advice is given. In many cases, what is happening is that developments in areas close to areas I understand the arguments put by the urban administered by this Minister's department are being development industry, that is, it is using the very developed with potentially significant impacts on best in environmental management practices to those areas administered by this Minister's minimise the impacts of urban development in those department, and yet this Minister has either no say or areas. However, we simply cannot have development has his say ignored. that close to areas whose ecosystems are still quite pristine. I cite the mangrove systems as an example. I think that is entirely unacceptable. There For a long time they have been recognised as being needs to be a far better process, particularly in these a very important spawning habitat for fisheries in that sensitive coastal areas, for managing some of those region of Moreton Bay extending to South sensitive locations. As I say, when one combines Stradbroke Island. removing the marine park management controls that There are a number of related issues previously existed in relation to Coombabah Creek concerning that part of southern Moreton Bay, as and Caboolture with the fact that the other there are in relation to the estuary of the Caboolture department, Local Government and Planning, River at the northern end of Moreton Bay, which will appears to adopt a much more lackadaisical and create real problems for any Government in the years much more routine process of exempting ahead in respect of environmental management. developments from environmental assessment, what Developments have been allowed to go ahead in we are faced with is, frankly, a long term potential those places, many of which were based on disaster. If this Government does not look at it, then approvals granted long before the Labor by the time we get to office next year it is going to Government was in office. They were granted in the be very serious and we are going to have to deal Joh Bjelke-Petersen National Party days of the past, with it pretty promptly. when there was less understanding of environmental I support the proposal for the inclusion in impacts, less interest in environmental protection Moreton Bay of the Point Halloran Conservation and, probably even more significantly, an entirely Reserve in Redland Bay and the Phil Hill Park on unrestrained and unfettered cargo-cult approach to Jabiru Island owned by the Gold Coast City Council. development of any kind, whether it be industrial It only makes commonsense that those two places development, urban development or whatever. That be managed as part of the Moreton Bay Marine Park. has left us with a legacy of serious environmental As I have already indicated, the Opposition supports problems in these coastal zones. the concept of combining the Pumicestone Passage 2768 Special Adjournment 11 Jul 1997 and Moreton Bay Marine Parks to ensure consistent discussions at some time soon in relation to a block and coherent management across that entire water on Bribie Island at Wrights Creek, the acquisition of body. I just hope, however, that in doing so the which will help protect the Pumicestone Passage. Minister recognises that the marine parks and the I want to express my major concern very impacts on them are not an island in themselves. quickly. It relates to the Caboolture River. There are They are affected, as the Minister for Primary a number of large parcels of land adjacent to the Industries would appreciate, by many, many off-park river, particularly south of the river in the electorate activities, that is, activities that are in adjacent of my colleague the member for Murrumba, which terrestrial locations and indeed outside the park in would lend themselves to canal development. There other areas of the bay and even of the islands in the have been applications for canal development on the bay. It should not be assumed by this Minister, by Caboolture River that have been rebuffed by the the Government or his department that simply combined status of fish habitat reserve and marine drawing the boundaries and defining them is the limit park. I am a bit concerned that any relaxation of the of their responsibilities in terms of protecting the regime covering those waters could lead to resources that make up Moreton Bay, resources successful applications for canal estates in that area. which are important not just in terms of maintaining I ask the Minister to look very carefully at the their environmental sustainability but very important reduction in the marine park declaration on that for a range of other departments, including Primary particular river in order to make sure that that Industries in the fisheries context, and other particular event cannot occur. economic benefits which flow from the resources of the region. Mr Wells: You might tell the Minister that I join with you in that request. The Opposition has no objection to the proposed combination of these areas. We look Mr J. H. SULLIVAN: The member for forward to the prompt declaration of the zoning plan Murrumba joins with me in that request. for Moreton Bay—something which I think the Because of the lateness of the hour and the Minister has been dragging the chain on. I fact that there is general agreement, I do not want to understand that it is ready. I do not understand why say any more than that. I am happy to support the it is not already here, but I hope that it is here very revocations before the House. soon. Hon. B. G. LITTLEPROUD (Western Mr J. H. SULLIVAN (Caboolture) (5.53 p.m.): Downs—Minister for Environment) (5.56 p.m.), in I promise honourable members that it is not my reply: I thank members for their contributions. I have intention to make the member for Lockyer into a liar taken note of the comments by the member for by taking up much time of the House, but I do feel Everton. The member for Caboolture might like to that it is important that I talk briefly today because of write to me identifying those parcels of land that he my interest in the northern end of Moreton Bay just spoke about. We are going to have some where the proposal is to revoke not only the discussions about another matter he referred to, but Moreton Bay plan but also the Pumicestone Passage if he could also alert me to those pieces of land I will Marine Park and incorporate that into the Moreton get some advice on it. I thank members for their Bay Marine Park. I think that is an excellent idea. I do support. not think that anybody would say that it is not. I do Motion agreed to. have an interest in funds that had been set aside over a number of years. I have asked the Minister about that and received an assurance, and I am pleased to SPECIAL ADJOURNMENT acknowledge that assurance. Mr FITZGERALD (Lockyer—Leader of I will touch just briefly on the Pumicestone Government Business) (5.56 p.m.): I move— Passage. I hope that we can ramp up acquisitions on "That the House, at its rising, do adjourn to the western bank of the passage. I note that one a date and a time to be fixed by Mr Speaker, in block at the mouth of Bullock Creek was not consultation with the Government of the State." purchased last year while another was. It would be nice to see some ramping up of that. I do understand Motion agreed to. that the Minister and I will be having some The House adjourned at 5.57 p.m.

J. R. SWAN, GOVERNMENT PRINTER, QUEENSLAND—1997