francis mankiewicz to berlin with love by joan irving It is a fight to the finish, but the following interviews with director Francis Mankiewicz, and producers Marcia Couelle and Claude Godbout suggest that they may be winning with their film Les bons debarras (Good Rid­ dance), selected to represent at the 1980 Berlin Film Festival.

Director of Les bons debarras, Francis Mankiewicz with — pointing the way to Berlin!

Cinema Canada/11 really didn't know what to think of it, so 1 of my universe. You might find something The year 1980 marks a revival in just set it aside while I finished the other for yourself in it.' Quebecois films. Following the slump of film. But 1 found that 1 was continually the late-seventies — when directors like thinking of Le bons debarras. There was Cinema Canada: It is surprising how , , Francis Man­ •something in that script that haunted me. much in Les bons debarras resembles kiewicz, and others, left to work At the time there were a lot of opportu­ the world you created in Le temps d'une in Toronto— several directors, including nities to work in Toronto. What brought chasse. Carle, Mankiewicz, Jean-Claude Labrec- me back to was Rejean's script. Francis Mankiewicz: It would be difficult que, Andre Forcier and Jean-Guy Noel for me to direct a film in which I didn't find are now completing new features. First to Cinema Canada: Ducharme has pub­ something I could feel close to. The be released is Mankiewicz's Les bons de­ lished several novels, but this was his first resemblance is partly style, but mostly, I barras (Good Riddance). screenplay. How closely did you collabo­ guess, one of subject. I have a great Winner of two Etrogs and a special rate on the final script? affinity for Rejean's preoccupation with Jury prize at the 1972 Canadian Film Francis Mankiewicz: When Rejean sends certain forms of naivety and childhood, Awards, Le temps d'une chasse was you a script, he sends you a universe — a and his preoccupation with death. Mankiewicz's first feature. He went on to universe in which there are a number of There were also elements in the script make two sixty-minute specials for the levels of content and meaning. I really that were totally foreign to me, but that CBC: The People Problem and A Matter liked the script, but 1 could see that in excited me simply because they weren't of Choice. Back in Quebec, he directed a order to translate that universe to film, it things I would normally write myself If I made-for-television feature titled Une needed modifications. There were also were to sit down and write a script, it amie d'enfance, which had a brief thea­ elements in it that I wanted to see developed would all come out one color, my color. trical release. because I felt closer to them. Les bons debarras marks the beginning Through an intermediary, I communi­ Cinema Canada: Since Le temps d'une of a collaboration between Mankiewicz cated my suggestions to Rejean. In about chasse, your first feature, you haven't and Rejean Ducharme. a writer whose a month the script came back totally directed a screenplay you wrote. Why are novels, songs, and adaptations of plays revised. He had rewritten it from the you no longer writing your own material? have a wide following in Quebec and beginning. It was the first time I'd worked Francis Mankiewicz: I've written other France. with a scriptwriter whose second version scripts since. Some were meant to go Ducharme explores the themes of child­ had come so close to what I wanted. We ahead and had even been programmed, hood and the childlike. Les bons debarras hadn't really talked about it but he had but fell through at the last minute. There is the story of a young girl's relationship been able to read me entirely. It was are a few scripts in my cupboard. with her mother. When Michelle tells her terrifically exciting. After that we met and I found, though, that it was difficult to twelve-year-old daughter. Manon. that worked through the script, scene by scene, write and direct at the same time. Writing she is pregnant, the child lashes out in occasionally changing a line of dialogue. is a concentrated activity, while directing jealousy against all that defines and Once we started shooting, he let me take is more dynamic. For me they were slightly confines her life: school: poverty: her it from there. contradictory, so I had to make a choice. mother's policeman boyfriend, Maurice; It was almost as if he had given me a gift Besides, the amount of time spent getting her dimwitted uncle, Ti-Guy; and finally, that came with a note saying. 'Here's part the script written and then going through against her mother, whom she loves and wants to protect

Francis Mankiewicz: I was shooting A Matter of Choice for the CBC in Toronto, when Rejean Ducharme sent me the script of Les bons debarras. 1 didn't know him at the time, though I'd read his books. He told me later he had had the idea for the film, written a draft and then started looking for a director. He'd seen Le temps d'une chasse and felt that I'd be the right person to make the film. He went through all kinds of people to find out who 1 was and where I was. and how he could get the script to me.

Cinema Canada: Rejean Ducharme is reputed to be something of a recluse. And he was searching for you? Francis Mankiewicz: It came as a surprise to me. 1 think it was Jacques Godbout who phoned to tell me that Ducharme wanted to send me the script. 1 read it. but

Joan Irving is a free-lance writer, and story editor with the Drama Unit. CBC Montreal. Manon (Chariotte Laurier), angry with the world in Francis Mankie

12/March 1980 .# the battles of finding a producer and beyond her control, Ifs the same for Ti- getting financing, made a cumulative time Guy. Fairly early on in the film there is a span on one film of about five years. If I feeling that it is driving to something were to make one film every five years, 1 inevitable. wouldn't be developing my craft as a Francis Mankiewicz/ director. Or perhaps if s simply a matter of Filmography experience, I find that I prefer collabora­ Cinema Canada: Could you elaborate tion at every level of the preparation and on the concept of tragedy? shooting of a film. Rather than try to carry Francis Mankiewicz: I don't mean by 1972 the whole film myself, 1 look for people to tragedy something that necessarily ends Le temps d'une chasse, writer and work with me. in death. We see death — real death — director, feature 90 min. 35 mm (N.F.B.) Rejean is a terrific stimulus to me, in every day on television. The original production. 1972 Venice Festival Award. that he presents me with extremely dense intent of tragedy wasn't to merely show Three prizes characters which I then take and try to death, but to show a transposition of life. 1972. bring to life. When we see Cambodia, what is brought home is how miserable life can be, how 1973 miserable people can be. Though the Cinema Canada: The overall feel of Les Les allees de la terre, executive producer. endings of the classical tragedies may be bons debarras is rather sombre. Ti-Guy feature 90 min., directed by Andre The- sad, there is no devaluation of life. On the commits suicide at the end. Yet the berge (N.FB.) contrary, by putting certain aspects of life affection in the film, the characters for Valentin, director, half-hour television into relief, it brings on other levels ol" each other and yours for them, is very drama. Co-production Canada/France/ reflection and understanding. moving, Switzeriand. Francis Mankiewicz: To me ifs a film I don't view film as a depiction of real based on love. Ifs based on this desire we life. Good drama is a transposition of life all have to love and to feel passionate rather than a reproduction of it, 1974 about things, the desire in us to live Proces criminel, director, half-hour edu­ intensely. One of the most important cational drama (O.F.Q.) aspects of the film is the intensity. It was in Cinema Canada: / once attended a Cause civile, director, half-hour educa­ the writing when I first read the script, and screening of Le temps d'une chasse for tional drama (O.F.Q.). it is in the characters. The characters are an audience of university film students. Orientation, director, half-hour educa­ uncompromising. They go to the limit of Only a couple of the questions during the tional drama (O.F.Q.). that passion, or love, or desire . . , discussion that followed related to con­ tent. Are filmmakers losing the ability to whatever you want to call it. 1975 tell good stories? Les vagues, writer, feature-length fiction Francis Mankiewicz: The first impulse of Cinema Canada: The film depicts simple screenplay. young filmmakers in film school is to people, in terms of their lifestyle and Bcrthier en bas, writer, feature-length demystify and try to get a hold on what, certainly their means, yet the situations fiction screenplay. through their childhood, was the magic of are never simple emotionally. What are cinema. In school they get excited about Expropriation, director, hour-long tele­ you trying to get at? the way films are made and tend to forget vision drama. C.B,C,, Toronto, Francis Mankiewicz: If there were words content. To me the fascination with tech­ to describe what underiies passion or nique is quite understandable. 1 also think love, then that is perhaps what I'm looking 1976 that with the omnipresence of television Freelance producer at National Film Board forwith those characters. Ifs never simple. and its ongoing stream of programing, Their feelings come from the gut. Often of Canada on pilot program of dramatic the notion of content is, to some extent, films for television, they don't reach the conscious level. getting lost. Ifs the same idea as a short What drives the characters in Les bons Pointe Pelee, director, documentary short order cook , , , 1 sometimes have the on nature (N,FB,). debarras belongs to the irrational. feeling that life these days doesn't put Though the film looks realistic, the much importance on content. characters often express themselves 1977 through a kind of poetry. When you see 1 Was Dying Anyway, director, education­ the film, the language doesn't jump out at Cinema Canada: Yet you have made al documentary on suicide in prisons you as poetry, but when you read it, you this film? (International Cinemedia for Canadian realize people don't exactly speak that Francis Mankiewicz: Well, thafs my Penitentiary Service). way. You don't find lines that say 'Hello, basic preoccupation, I am not, perhaps, a A Matter Of Choice, director, hour-long ;ioodbye. How are you today.' Rejean's great film stylist, but 1 have a fascination television drama C.B.C. Toronto. scenes always begin where drama begins, for drama. I came to filmmaking through Une amie d'enfance. director, feature - and not where life begins. That, also, adds an interest in literature more than in 90 min, (from the play by Louis Saia to the feeling of unrelenting intensity in photography as a technique or visual and Louise Roy) (Les Productions du the characters, since thaf s where drama­ expression, Now 1 am looking for a recon­ Verseau). tically things start happening. ciliation of those two elements, I want to There's something of the classical tra- find a visual way to say things, aedles in the film, though ifs a modern 1978 patment, There's a feeling of destiny Les bons debarras, director, feature 115 pat emerges from the characters but Is Cinema Canada: This might be a good min, screenplay by Rejean Ducharme weyond their control, Manon's drive for point to ask you about your work with (Les Productions Prisma), something greater than what she is living . who won an Etrog for his comes from within her. but it is also cinematography on Le temps d'une chasse Cinema Canada/13 Cinema Canada: What emerges in all your dramatic films is the strength of the acting, Francis Mankiewicz: I like working with actors You know. I'm not all that con­ cerned about a correct realistic way of playing a scene. What interests me is what emerges from it what the actor is convey­ ing. In Ducharme's script one of the challenges was the dialogue. On paper it was unsayable. Throughout the shooting the actors were coming to me saying, 'People don't talk like that I can'tsay this.' I would say to them, 'These are beautiful lines of dialogue. It's up to us to find a way of making them sound natural without losing the rhythm and rhyme.'

Cinema Canada: Marie Tifo. who plays the mother in the film, was a stage actress who had no film experience before you cast her Germain Houde was also a stage actor Is there a reason why you went to the stage for your actors, when there is such a large pool of experienced Manon and her mother (Marie Tifo) — a soft touch in a tender scene from Les bons debarras film actors in Quebec? Francis Mankiewicz: I looked every­ where for good actors. In some ways, and was Director of Photography on Les You're looking for certain things, but though, the script resembles a play. What bons debarras. you're not aware of it at the time. Of counts, is what is beyond it In a good Francis Mankiewicz: Michel Brault course you're naturally drawn to things play, it's not so much what is happening brought a great deal of visual sensitivity to that please you, so these resemblances on stage that counts, but what the actors Le temps d'une chasse. And I thought may arise. are communicating at another level, the same kind of thing was needed on this The opening for Les bons debarras The difficulties in casting were the film. I very much like what Michel does. troubled me for a long time. I couldn't find same as everything else in this movie — He has a particular way of framing. He a way to treat Rejean's establishing scene. and that's where Rejean is an extraordin­ doesn't frame a scene, he points the Until the day that we were actually filming ary challenge to me. Taken at one level, camera at what you're supposed to see. the shot I hadn't come up with a solution. the script is very close to soap opera. You He's less concerned with aesthetics and could only do justice to it by developing the right proportions than he is with what every nuance. the audience is supposed to see in that The mother in the script could have particular scene. Cinema Canada: Do you sleep nights been cold, almost brutal. The danger was when that kind of thing happens? that the audience would react as if it was Cinema Canada: It is a dark film. Why so Francis Mankiewicz: When you're shoot­ the story of a victimized child. I wanted to little sunlight? ing a film, you're working twenty-four stay as far away from that as possible. Francis Mankiewicz: The film was shot hours a day, even in your sleep. You get Michelle had to be a character capable of in autumn, so the darkness was partly into almost a speedy state. You're con­ great tenderness and sensitivity. She had seasonal. We didn't want high contrasts. stantly thinking of the scenes, looking for to be capable of controlling her world. Even when the sun was out we shot with an approach. You don't just take a scene backlight so as not to get sharp shadows and film it. You have to know what you across the face. We wanted a very textured want to say with it Cinema Canada: Charlotte Laurier, the picture, in which you could feel the earth, Looking for a place to put the camera girl who plays Manon. is enchanting. the leaves, the house and the texture of for the opening shot of Les bons debarras, What's your secret for finding child actors? people's faces. Alain Chartrand, one of my A.D.'s, and 1, Francis Mankiewicz: The eyes. It really met a Hydro Quebec crew working in a comes down to that In fact casting all the Cinema Canada: The opening scene, cherry picker cutting trees along the road. characters I was looking at the eyes. They with the police car dizzily driving through We asked if they'd give us a ride. We went had to have an interior quality, the sense the village and down the highway, re­ all over the place, stopping and going up that within them there is another dimen­ minds me of the opening in Le temps in the crane for a look around. Finally, we sion. The eyes are the basic element with d'une chasse when the men are picked came back to the village and decided to which an actor communicates. They carry up in the early morning to go hunting and shoot the scene there. But it wasn't until the intensity of the drama. everyone is in a good mood. There is a the morning we were scheduled to shoot We looked at a lot of children. I had sense of humor behind both scenes. it that I decided to have the car perform help from many people, including Fran- Were the similarities intentional? with its siren and headlights. It was an off­ f oise Berd. But I think Chariotte is one of Francis Mankiewicz: A lot of what you beat start, which I wanted because, to me, those rare finds. You look and look and do when making a film is unconscious. the film wasn't really that conventional. occasionally you're lucky.

14/March 1980 Cinema Canada: So often these talented you can end up on set and do that one The Institut helps. There aren't many child actors never do anotlier film. take that is miraculous. institutions trying to protect the cultural Francis Mankiewicz: Yes and it's too reality in Quebec, and the national cinema bad. It's a reflection of the fact that it's so Cinema Canada: Is the existence of the that is close to the artists of Quebec. difficult to get films made. When we Institut quebecois du cinema going to Hopefully, that cinema will be close to the started making Les bons debarras, there make a difference for filmmakers here? audience one day as well. hadn't been a Quebec film made for a Francis Mankiewicz: It is making a dif­ long time. There were difficulties financing ference. Last year production of films Les bons debarras it and getting it going. When the battles of increased. How long thafs going to go on p.c. Les Productions Prisma Inc. p. Claude putting a film together become that enor­ for. 1 don't know. In the twelve years that Godbout. Marcia Couelle p. account. Louise mous, it is hard to develop an ongoing Desiauriers p. sup. Monique Messier p. man. I've been making films, I've seen periods Francine Forest p. assist. Michelle St-Arnaud. film process that enables you to employ of heavy production followed by periods Jacques Garon. Andre Brault p. sec. Andrec actors on a regular basis. Like many where there was nothing. Older filmmakers Lachapelle d. Francis Mankiewicz a.d. Lise things in our world today, there is much will perhaps tell me that it's normal, but 1 Abastado, Alain Chartrand, Marie-Andree Vinet (2nd ad.) sc. Rejean Ducharme cont. Marie waste. But I'm sure that Charlotte will hope it doesn't happen too often. Ifs LaHaye art. d. Michel Proulx d.o.p. Michel continue acting. She has special qualities extremely demoralizing and demobilizing. Brault cam. Guy Dufaux. Jean-Charles Trem- that can't go unnoticed. Filmmakers, artists of any nature, need to blay asst. cam. Louis de Ernsted. Robert work on a fairly regular basis to develop Martel. Michel Caron, Pierre Duceppe stunts Marcel Fournier. Yves Fournier, Serge Deniau their craft and their maturity as artists. sd. j-ienri Blondeau sd. mix Michel Descombes Cinema Canada: You mention the lean Hopefully we're seeing a new period of boom Marcel Frasermus, dir. Bernard Buisson years for filmmakers here. There must filmmaking, but 1 wouldn't bet on it. mus. arrange. Jean Corriveau. Frangois Richard, Bernard Buisson ed. Andre Corriveau ward. have been times when you wondered With inflation, filmmaking is getting Diane Paquet. Suzanne Harel make-up/hair why you were sticking at it. Where is the more expensive. You can't finance a film Marie-Angele Breitner-Protat props l^ierre fun in filmmaking for you? totally with the Institut The CFDC is Fournier, Daniel Huysmans'(assist.) elec. Jac­ Francis Mankiewicz: When I was a child ques Paquet. Daniel Chretien. Richer Fran- doing its part too, but ifs still not one- coeur. Eddy Trempe machine Serge Grenier. my mother used to say, 'In any job there is hundred percent of the budget On Les Robert Grenier still Yves Ste-Marie l.p. Char­ ninety-nine percent misery and difficulty, bons debarras the producers. Les Pro­ lotte Laurier. Marie Tifo. Germain |-ioude. and one percent pleasure and enrichment' ductions Prisma, never did find total . Roger Lebel. Gilbert Sicotte. I think thafs true in filmmaking. For those Serge Theriault, Jean-Pierre Bergeron. Leo financing before shooting. So Prisma and llial. Madeleine Chartrand. Louise Rinfret. Eric few moments on set when the magic various people were obliged to invest in Beausejour. Jean-Pierre Duplessis. Marcella occurs, you're ready to go through the the film. When producers and filmmakers Fajardo. Marie Laurier. Henri pub. Les Pro­ miseries of trying again and again to put begin risking their livelihood to make a ductions Prisma Inc. (1979) col. 35 mm length together a movie, to see one and then 116 min. dist. Corporation des Films Mutuels film, all kinds of extraneous elements of Ltee. (Que). another of your projects fall through, so stress intervene in the creative process. commerce vs. culture in a bastard industry by teri coburn At the best of times, producing a Que­ Ducharme's script that we got into the decade of the industry to think about becois film is a risky business; at the worst film," they explain to Cinema Canada. making a feature film in French. The films it can be suicidal — but it can be done. For "It was an extraordinary script one that that we were bringing out then — low- a price. far surpassed anything we had seen in budget films under $200,000 — were Producers of Les bons debarras, Mar­ Quebecois cinema... If we had just read risks; but at least the CFDC (Canadian Film cia Couelle and Claude Godbout of Les the storyline, or if it had been anyone of a Development Corp.), allowed them to Productions Prisma Inc., paid it $57,000 number of other directors who had ap­ recoup the private investment before the out of the corporate pocket Not to mention proached us with it we probably wouldn't public money. By the time we began the months of stress prior to, during, and have been interested in producing it But making Les bons debarras there were now, after the shoot But with a little help Francis' interpretation — the one he was none of those 'guarantees', because the from their friends, and a lot of faith in their able to give us verbally, that he was able to CFDC policy had changed." film, they can almost sit back; for Les draw for us — was what interested us. He Prisma consequently tried all of the bons debarras has been selected to re­ came to us because there had been a classical methods of financing, and ended present Canada in the competition at the number of fiction films done here at up with seventy-five percent of the Bedin Film Festival. They have also found Prisma; and he already knew what type of $602,000 budget covered by the CFDC themselves a distributor in Quebec, and films we had made, and with what type of and the Institut quebecois du cinema. one in Germany. The struggle is by no directors." "The Institut also came in right away with means over, but the worst of it may be; a Unfortunately, Mankiewicz's timing their additional cultural money. They can qualified consolation, but a consolation might have been better. "In the fall of'77, nonetheless. What made them do it? when the script came to us, it was about Teri Coburn is a free-lance writer and assistant "It was really on the basis of R6jean the worst time we had seen in the last to the editor of Cinema Canada in Montreal

Cinema Canada/15