Tuesday, March 31, 1953 i'v-.■.-'■■L A">«: Bkw;': ■ Acc. ’
THE
parliamentary d e b a t h s (P art I— Questions and Answers) OFFICIAL REPORT
1590 11589 Shri B. K. Das: Is it a fact that in HOUSE OF THE PEOPLE one of the camps near Naini Tal, the Tuesday, 31st March, 1953 Mohanpur Tarai Camp, the area is barren and unfit for cultivation and that drinking water is available only at a distance of 6 miles? The House met at Tico of the Clock. Shri A, P. Jain: Allegations to that ;[Mr. Deputy-Speaker in the Chair] effect have been made but I could not verify them. On the whole i the land MEMBER SWORN in Tarai is very fertile. Thakur Jugal Kishore Sinha (Muzaffer- Shri B. K. Das: Is it a fact that pifr North-West). families are given, irrespective of the number of the members, a maxunum amount of Rs. 25 each family. ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS Shri A. P. Jain: No. That is not so. The maximum allowance and doles Settlem ent of East Bengal Displaced go \ip to Rs. 60 per familj'. Persons in ]arai Land (U. P.) Shri B. K. Das: Are they given the *1090. Shri B. K. Das: (a) W ill the usual doles of Rs. 12 and Rs. 8 which Minister of Rehabilitation be pleased are fixed for adults and non-adults? to state how many East Bengal dis placed families have so far been settled Shri A. P. Jain: That is so, but sub in the Tarai land in U P . under the ject to a maximum of Rs. 60. jute-growing scheme? Shrimati Renu Chakravartty: May I (b) How many of them were sent know if the reclamation assistance has -there during the year 1952? also been given to these people? (c) What rehabilitation benefits Shri A. P. Jain: Yes. Rs. 440 are liave been given to them? spent on the reclamation. The Minister of Rehabilitation Shri T. K. Chaudhuri: M ^ I know - The Parliamentary Secretary to the Dr. Ram Subhag Singh: May I know Blinister of Finance (Shri B. R. whether the loan granted by the World Bhagat): Yes, Sir. Under the terms Bank to the Indian Iron and Steel of the Loan Agreement between the Company would meet the total capital World Bank and the Indian Iron and expenditure of that company or not? Steel Company, the Comoanv has to cxecute and deliver, if the Bank so Shri B. R. Bhagat: It is not rele desires. Bonds to the extent of the vant to the question. The question amount it withdraws from the loan relates only to the bond. ; account. Dr. Ram Subhag Singh: What parti N a t io n a l A r t T reasure F und cular feature of this Iron and Steel Company has led the World Bank to authorize the Company to issue bonds *1092. Shri S. C. Samanta: (a) W ill to meet their foreign exchange require the Minister of Education be pleased ments? to state whether the sum sanctioned to National Art Treasure Fund for the Shri B. R. Bhagat: The provision for acquisition of Art Objects in 1951-52 bonds is a normal feature of all World has been fully spent? Bank loans. Similar provision exists in other agreements for loans taken (b) How much was allotted for this from the World Bank by the Govern purpose in 1952-53 and how much out ment of India. of this has been spent so far? Dr. Ram Subhag Singh: May I know (c) How many paintings and whether these bonds would be taken sketches have been acquired in 1952? up by Indian investors only or by foreign .investors also? The Deputy Minister of Natural Resources and Scientific Research Shri B. R. Bhagat: As I said it is a (Shri K. D. Malaviya): (a) No, Sir. normal feature of all loans granted by the World Bank. (b) A sum of Rs. 18,600 has been Mr. Depuly-Speaker: The hon. contributed by the Government of Member wants to know whether the India to the National Art Treasures bonds are to be delivered by Indian Fund but nothing has been ir-pent Investors only or by foreign investors far out of this amount also. (c) None. Shri B. R. Bhagat: It will be issued to the World Bank. ^ W ^ T5C ^ H'sf) ^ ^ p 1% ^ ? ^ rrfw ^ f + % fV/iJ I ^ ‘ ^ ^0 vft I ^0 ^ ^ I- ^ ^ WT t ? ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ I ^ ^ ^ ^ iT Dr. Jaisoorya: What happens if ^ n+)i|T 'SncTT ^ ^ «!'>»< Shri S. N. Das: May I know the ^ ^ ^ extent of the contributions made to this fund by the various State Gjvern- # qr ^ ^ ? roents? sft %o ^ ^ Shri K. D. Malaviya: Various States have contributed to the fund duiing ^ ^ H+df ^ ^ 3TT^ the last 2 or 3 years. ^ ^ 3fk ^ In 1950-51 the contribution fnDm the States was Rs, 16.000 and the Govern ^ I ment of India’s contribution was Rs. 25.000. In 1951-52 the States contri buted Rs, 12,500 and the Government f5WT of India’s contribution was Rs. 11,500. In 1952-53, the States contribution ^ qwo TT^O : was Rs. 17.000 and the Government of India’s contribution was Rs. 18,600. Shri Ragrhuramaiah: May I 'know (ep) what is the machinery contemplated by the Government for the purpose of f%qr T O fe r r ^ spending the fund and for the purpose of getting the objects of Art? ^ Shri K. D. Malaviya: It is the Pur chase Committee under the Govern ( ^ ) ^ ^ ment of India which considers aU the proposals that come and make pur ^ ^ f k m ^FPhFT ? chases. The Deputy Minister of Natural Shri V. P. Nayar: May I know whe Resources and Scientific' Research ther out of this fund any money has (Shri K. D. Malaviya): (a) Attention b»^en spent for getting back oar Pea of the hon. Member is invited to tne cock throne? Chapter on Education in the final re port of the Planning Commission. Shri K. D. Malaviya: As I said noth ing has been spent so far from this (b) One of the schemes under the fund. There is a seoarate Budget Five Year Educational Plan, is meant provision and from that provision pur to work out the whole idea of Basic chases are made of objects of art. Education from the Primary to Post Graduate (training) level,' to develop suitable methods and techhiques of ^ ^ work experimentally and, by associat ing with it a programme of Social Education, to study its total impact • ^ W TT ^ fe lT ^ % on the life of the local community. Grants have also been given to th'e aAr f e u w t ^ ^ ^vhwai State Governments for the improve ment of primary and basic schools. I ? The question of giving financial as sistance to States for their pro grammes Of the expansion of Basic Education is under consideration. ^ ^ I O' ^ ^ ^ «ft tJHo q5?yo f g ^ : ^ # I i ¥To ’BiyjT: irn r^ ^ ^ anrnr % ^ w % Rl^*1 ^ I I ^ 3 ]^ ^PTT ^ ^ ^ ^ sq^fTT pn I |3TT t ^ fSTT t ? . fO T w t ^ jt o ^ f I ^ ^ ^TPT ^ i w r 1595 Oral Answers 31 MARCH 1953 Oral Answers I59« ? ^ 3fh: % in© 2ftlRT t ezTR f e w 11 strW? ^ ^ ? n ^ \ 9ik ^ f ^ 3nft ^ ^ ^ ' f^M I =^7^^f^^2T^cnTT*T ^V.HR ^ wr ^qr | ? ^TTfw 1 31^ # ^ WK^Ri ^ qr^ ^ t I ^ 13flT w ^ Shri T. S. A. Chettiar: Out of ^ ^ t I % q-R ft^T these Rs. 198 crores allotted for the coming year, how much is proposed *1 1 Rr5TT ^ ^ to be spent for basic education? 3rr^ 5T^ ^ t Shri K. D. Malaviya: That is a ^ 3rnnT "^^iFh^i ^ question which is under considera tion. But last year about Rs. 33 lakhs # qr^TT w 11 was given to the State Governments. Shri T. S. A. Chettiar: Out of this Shri S. N. Das: In view of the fund, hov/ much is proposed to be fact that the productive asDect of spent through the States, and how basic education has now been accept- much by the Government of India ed, may I know whether the Govem- directly? ment of India propose to take up the work of investigation of the ob- Shri K. D. Malaviya: Out of the stacles in the way of the fuU develop- total five year expenditure of Rs. 1-98 ment of the productive capacity of 1 ^ 3fVr xtt^ ^ 3ftr ^ ^ f f ^ %^rr ^ tft5f?fT ^ ^ f%^RT ^TR’^r f^rar ^ ^ T^nr qr ^ ^ ^ ^ fepTT ^ ^ afh: arrq- ^ ^ f e n ^ t ^ ^5t t w ? ^ V o iTT^8ft fkwr <>n< «lgd f^RTT ^ fVm ^ qr ^ I sFtf'TfwJT?r|f^r^r^^raTt I ^ K azaks ^ ^ c|laN^«l ♦1694. Sardar Hukam Sin^h: (a / ‘ 5 T W ^ ^ ^Ttsr^nrr 3TFT WiU the Minister of Home Affairs be pleased to state whether the Kazaks I (about 400 in number) who arrived on 31 MARCH 1953 Oral Answers 1598 *597 Oral Answers tbe Leh Ijorder as displaced p e ^ n s allowed into any other country, or is and were put in camps in the Kasmnir it because of some unwillingness on State during 1951-52 to remain there their part to move out of India? till the circumstances became favour- • able for their departure, have gone Shri Datar: No, Sir. The difficulty back? of finding out sheter for them was there, and ultimately some shelter (b ) If not, are ttiey still in camps? was found in Turkey for some, and for some in Mecca. Therefore they The Deputy Minister of Home have gone. So far as the others are Affairs (Shri^ Datar): (a) and (b). concerned, steps are being taken to 375 Kazak refugees entered the State send them to other countries as far in the year 1951, out of whom 25 have as possible. died, 172 have left for Turkey and 6 for Mecca. The rest viz., 172 are B usiness P remises for D isplaced P ersons still in the State— 168 in Srinagar and 4 in Ladakh. ♦1095. Sardar Hukam Singh: (a) Sardar Hukam Singh: Have any WiU the Minister of Rehabilita tion be pleased to state the number of of them entered any other part of shops built by the Government of our country as well? India. State Government of Delhi or the Municipal Committees of Delhi or Shri Datar: No, they have not New Delhi during the last five years been sent to any other part. for providing business premises to displaced persons from West Pakistan? Sardar Hukam Singh: Were there any Chinese refugees, who came (b) What is the number of such along with these Kazaks? shops still lying vacant? Shri Datar: No. Sir: to our infor (c) What are the reasons for the mation. only these people have come. displaced persons not occupying them or vacating them after occupation? Sardar Hukam Singh: Have the Government of India incurred any ex The Minister of Rehabilitation penses on account of their entry and (Shri A. P. Jain): (a) The number maintenance here? of shops constructed by the: Shri Datar: All the expenses are (i) Ministry of Rehabili incurred only by the Government of tation 3806 India. (ii) Delhi Municioal Com Sardar Hukam Singh: What was mittee 2281 -the amount that has been incurred? (iii) New Delhi Municipal Shri Datar: The total amount spQnt Committee ^229 tiU now is Rs. 42.820-4-9. T o t a l 7316 Shri T. K. Chaudhuri: May I know from which state they came? (b) 227. Shri Datar: They came from Tibet. (c) In some cases after the allot Shri N. Sreekantan Nair: Have the ment of a regular shop, the displaced Government-of India ascertained the shopkeeper prefers 1:o stay in the un opinion of the. Government of the authorised structure because in the U.S.S.R. or China in connection with former case, he has to pay the rent the protection of these people? while in the latter case he has to pay no rent. Som.e of the shopkeepers h Shri Datar: I did not follow the may be in the process of occupying, . question, Sir. others may not have occupied for Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Have the other reasons. Government of India consulted or taken the opinion of the U.S.S.R. or Sardar Hukam Singh: Is there Chinese Government, in regard to any number of displaced persons who these people? remain in these temporary construc tions or wooden barracks, because Shri Datar: We* have not taken the there are no shops for them? opinion of any of them. These people ^ v e political refugees, and so they Shri A. P. Jain: I could not catch ^ave been given shelter ,here. the question. Sardar Hukam Singh: Are thew Sardar Hukam Singh: Is t h ^ people here because tbfiy were not any number, of displaced perscDs io 1599 Oral Answers 31 MARCH 1953 Oral Answers tSoh l)elhi, who stiU occupy thgse wooden Shri A. P. Jain: There is no dis constructions or temporary shops, on pute about the rent. account of want of accommodation for their business premises? Shri A. P. Jain; Oh, yes; thou T r a i n i n g o f D is p l a c e d P e r s o n s sands of them. Sardar Hukam Singh: May I know *1096. Sardar Hukam Singh: Will their number? the Minister of Rehabilitation be pleased to state: Shri A. P. Jain: About 7000 or 8000. (a) whether the target of 80,000. fixed by the Rehabilitation Ministers Dr. Suresh Chandra: May I know Conference held in December, 1950, for the number of premises which were the training of displaced persons has ' destroyed, after having been built? been achieved; and Shri A. P. Jain: Not one. (b) whether Goven\ment have made any assessment of the number, out of Sardar Hukam Singh: Is it con those trained, who have been able to templated to demolish any of the settle in the vocation lor which they markets that have been built? were trained? Shri A. P. Jain: I do not under The Minister of Rehabilitation stand the insinuation of the hon. (Shri A. P. Jain): (a) Out of the Member. target of 80,000 displaced person* from West Pakistan to be trained, Sardar Hukam Singh: There is no about 63,000 would have received insinuation, Sir. This was in today’s training by the end of March. 1953. morning papers, ' that the Railway The training is continuing. department has wanted back the site on which Amrit Kaur Market (b) It has not been possible to was built, and therefore it is pro make any assessment. posed to demoUsh it. Is there any truth in it? There was no insinua Sardar Hukam Singh: May I know tion. whether there is any estimate of +he Shri A. P. Jain: I have no infor trainees who were given assistance to mation about it. ' start their business, after they have completed their training? Shri Gidwani: Is it a fact that a large number of shopkeepers have Shri A. P. Jain: We have no esti^ not been able to Pay their rents, and mated figures. the arrears of rent are being recover ed by coercive methods? Sardar Hukam Singh: May I know. if there were any, the numbier of Shri A. P. Jain: Arrears are being women who were trained? recovered, and they will continue to be recovered. Shri A. P. Jain: I think, out of these 63,000, 25,000 or more may be Shri M. S. Gurupadaswamy: What women. was the total amount spent on these shops for construction? Sardar Hukam Singh: Are there ^ Shri A. P. Jain: I want notice. any who are engaged in the training as also in some productive work? Shri Velayudhan: May I know whether there was any dispute re Shrt A. P. Jain: After training. garding the rent first fixed, and these they take to production. refugees have been evicted from their shops, before a settlement has Shri N. Sreekantan Nair: May I been reached? know the main trades or professions for which these people have been Shri A. P. Jain: I could not fol trained. low the question. Mr. Deputy-Speaker: He wants to Shri A, P. Jain: Their number know whether there is any dispute may be about a hundred or more. over the rent, and they are being *^ere are different kinds of trades, evicted before its settlement, and such as weaving, foundry, bamboo- coercive measures are taken for the work, and so on and so forth. There recovery of the arrears. ’ is a large number of such ’•axies. 1602 l 6oi Oral Answers 31 MARCH 1953 Oral Answers P o pu la t io n of Scheduled T ribes i n Rs. 25,000 was concerned, one-fourth T ravancore- COCfflN of it was given to them and they were asked to make reports. Theaii *1097. Sbri P. T. Chacko: W ill the did not make any report at 2 ^ anA Minister of Home Affairs be pleased therefore we are requesting tnem 10 to state whether Central Governme^ make a report and take the amour*t; -are giving any financial aid i m the otherwise it would lapse. development of the Scheduled Tribes Shri Bheekha Bhai: May I knew. in Travancore-Cochin, and if so, what Sir, if any Tribes Advisory Council is the extent of the aid? has been set up in Travancore-Cochin? The Deputy Minister of Home Shri Datar: I should like to have Affairs (Shri Datar): Yes; a sum of notice. Rs. 25,000/- was allotted to the State (3) SecretaiTi Ministry of Edu minated. May I know, Sir, the rea cation. son for illuminating the Princess Park? (4) PP.S, to Prime Minister. (5) Chief Commissioner, Delhi. Sardar Majithia: It was the Foun- " tain that wa^ illuminated, not the Shri S. N. Das: May I know, Sir, park. when this decision to illuminate the • buildings was taken, whether the case I nternational D is t in c t io n of Parliament House was considered *1 and if so, why it was left out? *1099. Shri L. J. Singh: Will the Minister of Education be pleased to Sardar Majithia: As replied to state: some days ago by the Minister for De fence Organisation, it was purely as a (a) the names of eminent Indians matter of economy that it was a token who were awarded international dis illumination. tinctions or medals for their specialisa tion in different academic subjects Shri S. N. Das: May I know. Sir, in since Independence; view of the fact that the Gk)vernment are now in possession of the feelings (b) the salient features of such sub of the general public and of Members jects; and _ of Parliament in particular with re gard to the non-illumination of Parlia (c) the names of the countries that ment House on the occasion of Repub awarded such recognition? lic Day celebrations, whether they will now assure the House that when any The Deputy Minister of Natural illumination programme is taken up Resources and Scientific Research on any other occasion the case of (Shri K. D. Malaviya): (a) to (c). Parliament House will not be neglect There is no definite criterion to decide ed? what is an international distinction or medal and as such, it is not possible to Sardar Majithia: Yes. Sir, we are supply the information asked by the prepared to ...... hon. Member. Shri P. T. Chacko: This identical question was asked and an answer was T r ib a l W elfare Schemes given on the floor of the House, Why ♦1100. Shri L. J. Singh: Will the should we waste the time of the Minister of Home Affairs be pleased House? to state: Mr. Depnty-Speaker: An assurance (a) the achievements of different is got that Parliament House also will States in the implementation of the be illuminated. 1’ribal Welfare Schemes during 1952 Shri Gldwani: Arising out of the 53; answer, the Minister stated that on (b) the Tribal Welfare Schemes lor account of economy considerations, 1953-54, as suggested by different - they did not illuminate Parliament States; and House. Is it contemplated to con (c) the total amount the Central tinue the illuminations permanently? Government propose to contribute and the shares to be received by different Mr. Deputy-Speaker: These are all States? hypothetical questions. The Deputy Minister of Home Shri Gidwani: It was replied the Affairs (Shri Datar): (a) and (b). other day to my question that Rs. , The information asked for is being col 10,000 would be spent yearly on illu lected and will be laid on the Table mination, and Rs. 20,000 on installa of the House as soon as it is received. tions. (c) A statement is laid on the Table ^ Mr. Deputy-Speaker: What more is of the House. • [See Appendix VII,. the hon. Member asking? Mr. Kelap- annexure No. 26.] pan. Shri Kelappan: Are some of these Shri L. J. Singh: May I know. Sir, buildings still illuminated? the names of the States that utilised' the money allocated for 1952-53 and Sfardar Majithia: No buildings are of those of the States that returned XKJW illuminated. the money, either in part or all, with out being utilised? • Shri V. P. Wayar: If I have heard the hpn. Minister correctly, he said Shri Datar: That information w a» ihat the Princess Park was also illu not asked for at all. i 6o5 Oral Answers 31'MARCH 1953 Oral Answers i 6 oS^» U p l i f t o f Adibaeis in B ih a r (b) There were no Fireworks dis play and illuminations in 1951 and ♦1101. Shri L. N. Mishra: WUl the 1952. Minister of Home Affairs be pleased Shri Piumoose: May I know. S ir,. to state whether the Government of what part of this amount was spent on Bihar have asked the Centra] Govern bringing Cultural Groups from seve ment for some specific grants for the ral States? uplift of the Adibasis in Bihar? Sardar Majithia: I am afraid l i The Deputy Minister of Home Affairs haven’t got the break-up of the figu (Shri Datar): The Government of res. Bihar asked for a grant of Rs. o2 lakhs during 1951-52 and of Rs. 21-8 lakhs Shri Punnoose: Is it a fact. Sir, during 1952-53 for the welfare of that a parcy was brought down from. Scheduled Tribes and raising the level Travancore-Cochin to display the of administration of Scheduled Areas. boat race? Grants amounting to Rs. 15 lakhs and Rs. 18 lakhs respectively were sanc Sardar Majithia: To which year ist- tioned. A budget provision of Rs. the hon. Member referring? 21 lakhs has been made for the next financial year. Shri Punnoose: Last year. Sardar Majithia: I was only ans Shri L. N. Mishra: May I know, wering questions. Sir, regarding- 1951 Sir, the heads of subjects under wb-ich 52. the amount is to be spent? Shri N. Sreekantan Nair: Was there Shri Datar: The heads are: (1) any poor feeding in connection with, promoting the welfare of the Schedul the celebration^" ed Tribes, and (2) raising the level of administration of the Scheduled areas Shri M. S. Gurupadaswamy: What to the administration of the rest of are the individual items for which ex the areas of the State. penses were incurred? Shri L. N. Mishra: Is there any Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The hon. Minis condition for such grants? ter need not give the reply regard ing individual items. Shri Datar: No conditions. Shri T. S. A. Chettiar: May I know. Shri V. P. Nayar: May I know whe Sir, whether these are full graits or ther any amount has been spent on on any percentage basis? the distribution of sweets? Shri Datar: These are grants un Mr. Deputy-Speaker: I may proceed der Article 275. to the next question. ‘ Every country celebrates the Republic day. We need Shrimati Renu Chakravartty: In not go into minute details as sweet the first part of the answer to the meats ete. question Mr. Mishra asked. K was said that it was for general welfare work. R ecruitm ent of I ncom e-T ax O fficers Is there any .sub-division about it— as to how much has been spent on edu *1103. Shri C. R. lyyunni: Will the cation, how much on health or any Minister of Finance be pleased to other subjects? state: Shri Datar: Those details are not (a) whether there is a proposal to here. Sir. directly recruit Income-tax Officers class II grade III; and (b) if so whether any consideration A m o u n t Sp en t for R e public B a y C ele will be shown to those officiating b rations IN N ew D elh i officers of Part B States, who had not *1102. Shri Punnoose: (a) Will the been absorbed or equated to officiating Minister of Defence be pleased to state officers in the Central set-up? the comparative expenditure for Rer- The Deputy Minister of Finance public Day Celebrations in New Delhi (Shri M. C. Shah): (a) Yes. Steps for 1951 and 1952? are being taken to recruit about 215 (b) How much of this was spent on Income-tax Officers, Class II Grade (i) fireworks and (ii) illuminations III. through the Union Public Servi alone? ce Commission. The Deputy Minister of Defepi>« (b) Officers of Part B States who> (Sardar Majithia): (a )— have been taken into the Central set up in non-gazetted posts are on the 1951 — Rs. 18,362-6-0. same footing as the non-gazetted offi 1952 — Rs. 18.857-10-0. . cers in Part A States. They will be- u 6o7 Oral Answers 31 MARCH 1953 Oral Answers i6 o g -considered for the posts of Income-tax cruitment to this officers’ cadre, not Officers, Class II Grade III, if they through the Public Service Commis have applied to the Union Public Ser sion? vice Commission and fulfil the con* • ditions prescribed for recruitment. Shri M. C. Shah: These 215 posts will be recruited through the Union Shri C. R. lyyunni: May I know. Sir, Public Service Commission and the , whether the experience that they have question is with regard to that. Sir. ^ . gained in their official capacity will be taken into consideration when the Shri M. S. Gurupadaswamy: May I decision is taken with regard to their know whether the Union Public Ser -appointment? vice Commission has been given the power to collect the applications only Shri M. C. Shah: There are certain and the selection will be made by the 'qualifications prescribed and if they Board of Revenue? . iulfil those qualifications, then th ey w ill be called for interview by tne Shri M. C. Shah: I think the Union Union Public Service Commission and Public Service Commission will select. they will take into consideration all They will call the candidates for the ' Other factors. interview. Shri C. R. lyyunni: May I know, Shri Achuihan: May I know whe -Sir, what are the essential qualifica ther any quota is fixed for members tions? in the service and for outsiders? Shri M. C. Shah: Sir, I shaU read Shri M. C. Shah: There is no quota the essential qualifications. They fixed. Sir. -are: Shri Heda: What is the total num “A first class degree in B.A., or ber of applications so far received and B.Sc., or its equivalent; what were the fees collected? Or, at least a Second class Honours Degree in B.A., or B.Sc., Shri M. C. Shah: About the number, or its equivalent; I think, subject to correction, it about 8200. About the fees, I have ' Or, at least second class M.A., no information. M.Sc. or M. Com., or a First Class B. Com.; F in a n c ia l a id to Schools i n T r ipur a ■ Or, at least a Second Class Hons. B. Com.; Or...... ” ♦1104. Shri Biren Dutt: WiU the Mr. Deputy-Spcaker: I will not al -Minister of Education be pleased to low any more ‘Ors’. These are noti state: fications appearing in all kinds of (a) whether it is a fact that the newspapers. These are the use of majority of students in the non-official going on reading like this? The hon High Schools of Tripura are displaced Minister need -not read. Whatever has persons; been published in the newspapers need not be read and it is for (b) if so, how much financial aid the hon. Members to get the informa has been given to each of such schools tion. from them. towards the construction of buildings; (c) what is the total aid givfen to each of these schools per year; (d) whether it is a fact that a circular has been issued by Govern % W # I ? ment informing these schools that the Shri V. P. Nayar: Arising out of aid to displaced students will be the answer of the hon. Minister may stopped from March, 1953; and I ask. Sir, whether Government are (e) if so, what steps Government aware that in the matter of qiialifica-, propose to take to keep these schools tions the Madras and Travancore Uni running in view of the great financial versities are not giving first classes in difficulties they are in? such large number as other Universi ties and whether Government will The Deputy Minister of Natural provide for this? Resources and Scientific Research Mr. Deputy-Speaker; Order, order; (Shri K. D. Malaviya): (a) Yes. let there be more silence in the (b) The information regarding fin House. ancial aid to each of such schools is Shri Velayudhan: May I know, being collected and wiU be placed on. Sir, whether there was aoy direct re t”he Table of the House when available^ m6og Oral Answers 31 MARCH 1953 Oral Answers i6xo However, in all Rs. 15,000 towards Buil sons were however acquitted by the ding construction and Rs. 81,814 to Sessions Judge on account of insufl^ wards tuition fees and book grants cient evidence. were givep to displaced students of all such schools. (b) With reference to a statement made by the accused in the Court (c) The total aid as given to aU about alleged police oppression to in such schools is Rs.33,300/- as recurr duce confession, the Sessions Judge ing grant-in-aid. Details regarding has suggested the desirability of an grants to particular schools is not av- enquiry by Government. -ailable. (c) The District Magistrate has been (d) Yes. asked to enquire into the matter. Tlie Government do not consider it neces (e) The question of continuance of sary to conduct a non-official enquiry. financial assistance to students is un der consideration. Shri Biren Dutt: May I know. Sir, whether any persons were wrongly id Shri Biren Dutt: Is it a fact, Sir, entified in the identification oarade that these Secondary schools, viz., Na- and detained in prison for months to lazi, Praychaya Barati and Bordule gether and later on released? Jiave giveri repeated representations for the grant of house construction? Dr. Katju: My hon, friend knows it If so. why they are not receiving any better, but, speaking as a lawyer, I reply? should say these acquittals and the Shri K. D. Malaviya: Representation instances which he refers to happen io r what, Sir? every day. Shri Biren Dutt: For aid. Shri K. K. Basu: May I know, in view of the fact that certain remarks Shri K. D. Malaviya; I am not aware were passed against the Polic-e, and •of the case of these particular schools, the Magistrate being in charge of the •Sir. police administration, does the Gov ernment consider the possibility of Shrimati Renu Chakravartt;; May holding an enquiry from independent I know what is the average increase sources? after the taking in of the displaced students? Mr. Deputy-Speaker: He has already Shri K. D. Malaviya: I require no answered that he is not prepared to tice to answer. do so. » S ashi Sarkar D a c o it y C ase of K h o w ai Shrimati Renu Chakravartty: May I know why, when there have been such dacoities. evidence was not for- *1105. Shri Biren Dutt: Will the ■ thcoming from the villagers and Minister of States be pleased to state: others? (a) whether it is true that all the twenty-one accused were released in Mr. Deputy-Speaker: This is a nor the Shashi Sarkar Dacoity Case of mal case; unless every citizen 'o *his Khowai; , country recognises his duty, that wiU happen. (b) whether it is a fact that the <^ssions Judge in his verdict said that it was desirable th^t an enquiry be FAaLITIES FOR TRAINING IN MINING AND made by the Government about the M etallurgy conduct of the police in inducing con fession in this case; and *1106. Shri Madiah Gowda: (a) W ill the Mirrister of Education be pleased (c) if so. will Government consider to state what facilities have been a non-official enquiry into the matter? afforded for the young men of India to be trained in mining and metallurgy? The Minister of Home Affairs and States (Dr. Katju): (a) The refer (b) In what institutions, have they ence is presumably to a case arising been trained during the last five years? out of a dacoity committed within a short distance of the Sub-divisional The Deputy Minister of Natural Re town of Khowni or 12th June 1951. sources and Scientific Research (Shri ^ "-r investigations the police chaUan- K. D. Malaviya): (a) and (b). A ■ed 50 persons. 26 of whom were abs statement giving the required infor conding. Out of the remaining 24 mation is laid on the Table? of the the Magistrate committed 21 persons House. [Sec Appendix VII, annexure to the Sessions Court. These per No. 27.] j 6 i i Oral Answers 31 MARCH 1953 Oral Answers 16X2: Shri Madiah Gowda: May I know (6) Glass Industry; whether the Government have insti tuted any scholarships for the study (7) Plastic Technology; and of Mining and Metallurgy and, if so, (8) Cellulose and Paper. •how many? (c) Bombay ^ Shri K. D. Malaviya: Government Delhi 2. have instituted scholarships for vari Saurashtra t ous technical and scientific subjects. Uttar Pradesh 2^ Sliri Madiah Gowda: I wish to know West Bengal 2r whether they have instituted scholar- ^ ip s for Mining and Metallurgy. (d) The matter is under considera Shri K. D. Malaviya: I do not pos tion. ' sess that information, Sir. Shri T. S. A. Chettiar: In what Shri Madiah Gowda: May I know language do they receive instruction? whether they have got any foreign sc holarships for this subject, Sir? The Minister of Education and Natu Shri K. D. Malaviya: Scholarships ral Resources and Scientific Research are given for technological subjects (Maulana Azad): Englisl^. and Mining and Metallurgy are presu mably there, Sir. ' Shri K. D. Malaviya: I am not aw are of it, but presumably they must Shri Madiah Gowda: May I know be receiving instruction in a language 'W hether those who are trained in the which they understand. institutions mentioned in the State ment are capable of handling big mines Shri Kelappan: How is the selection^ like those of Kolar Gold Fields? made? Shri K. D. Malaviya: I cannot ans Shri K. D. Malaviya: It is made b 3r wer that question, Sir. a departmental committee. S cholarships offered b y Y u g o s l a v ia Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Next luestion. *1110. Shri K. Subrahm^yam: (a) WiU the Minister of Education be SATI pleased to state whether it is a fact that the Government of the Federal ♦1111. Shri Veeraswamy: Will the- People’s Republic of Yugoslavia has Minister of Home Affairs be pleased cfEered some scholarships for Indian to state: students • for higher technological (a) whether it is a fact that the studies in that country? United Women’s Organisations. Bom (b) How many Indian students have bay, have renresented to the Govern been selected for such studies and what ment of India, with regard to increas are the subjects they are specialising ing instances of Sati; and in? (b) what action has been taken on (c) What is the number of such their representation? students, State-wise? (d ) Has any reciprocal gesture, been The 5>eputy Minister of Home Affairs^ made by Government to Yugoslav (Shri Datar): (a) Yes. .students and if so, what is the number of such students, now studying in (b) All the State Governments have India? been directed to i»sue stringent in structions to prevent the occurrence of The Deputy Minister of Natural Re any .such incident in future and. should sources and Scientific Research (Shri such an unhappy incident take place. , K. D. Ma!aviya): (a) Yes. to have the persons responsible suitab (b) Ten, of whom two each are for— ly dealt with under the law. Q) Production of Agricultural Shri Veeraswamy: May I know the Machinery; number of incidents of sati during (2) Metal working industry; 1952 and the places of occurrence? and one each for— (3) Polyvinyl Chloride and/or Shri Datar: So far *as 1952 is con Caustic Soda manufacture; cerned, two cases have occurred in Rajasthan. So far as U.P. is concern (4)' Electro-Engineering; ed, three cases occurred between H*4ft X5) Food Preservation: and 1952. » Shri K. K. Basu: May I know whe Shri Sinhasan Sin^h: What are the ther Government have ascertained the States that are considered to be back reasons for this increasing number of ward for being entitled to this privi satis? Are the due to an attempt to lege? avoid starvation after the death of the husband? Shri K. D. Malaviya: Backward States are defined as those which da Shri Datar: In the first place, there not either possess the facilities for is no iricrease at all. Secondly, our such training or lack in such facilities. \vomen have become sufficiently: strong- minded. Shri Sinhasan Singh: I want to know the names of the backward Shri Veeraswamy: May I know whe States. ther Government have been ignorant of the existence of sati before it was Shri K. D. Malaviya: They are* brought to their notice? Assam, Coorg and other Centrally Ad ministered Areas, Himachal Pradesh, Shri Datar: Govercment are -*ware Madhya Bharat, Orissa, Punjab, of sati in history. So far as the pre PEPSU and Vindhya Pradesh. sent instances are concerned, they are extremely rare and therefore it is not Dr. Ram Subhag Singh: May I know necessary to have any all-India Act the names of the places where the for preventing sati. selections are m.ade and the time of the year when they are made? Mr. Doputy-Speaker; Next question. Shri K. D. Malaviya: The eight cen tres to which I have referred are: In^STITUTE o f TECHN'OLOGy, Khar.^gpur Allahabad; Bangalore; Calcutta (2 centres); Delhi; Kharagpur; Nagpur *1112. Shri Sinhasan Singh: WiU tEe and Waltair. I require notice as re Minister of Educatioii be pleased to gards the time of the selection. state: Shri Sinhasan Singh: Is there any competitive test held for selection; or fa) the rnethod of selecting the stu are they selected through * an oral dents for admission to the Institute of test? Technology, Kharagpur and also if there is any allocation of seats to Shri K. D. Malaviya: Only oral tests different States; are held. (b) the method adopted in selecting students for Research traming scholar iMSriTUTIONAL ?RACTIC.\L TRAINING ships in Science and Technology in the .vears 1951-52 and 1952-53; and *1113. Shri Sinhasan Singh: W ill the Minister of i^ucatioa be pleased to (c) the number of students who ap state: plied for such scholarships? (a) the method for selection of stiir ^ The Deputy Minister of Natural Re dents for the two-year course of Insti sources and Scientific Research ( Shri tutional Practical Training for whidl K. D. Malaviya): (a) Admissions to a sum of Rs. 9,00.000 has been provided the Institute are made on the recom- in the budget of 1953-54; -mendations of Regional Selection Com- (b ) the implication and utilities of miiief's set u d at C centres in the coun these posts; and try. Fifty per cent, of the total seats are reserved for students coming from (c) whether this training wiU be- backward States and the remaining given in India or abroad? (fifty per cent, are open to all candida tes. The Deputy Minister of Natural Re sources and Scientific Research (Shri (b) For the award of Research train K. D. Malaviya): (a) Students for ing scholarships, the Universities and Institutions concerned recommended the Post-Institutional Practical Train students on the basis of merit and ing are selected strictly in order of seniority as research workers. The merit by the Institutions concerned on awards became effective after they the basis of the results of the final were approved by the Central Govern passing out examination. The' award ment. of stipends to the selected candidates is subject to the approval of the Cen (c) Universities and Institutions tral Government. Wherever stipends consider all eligible students and, as are instituted in the training estab such, information relating to the num lishments in co-operatiori ‘ with them, ber of students who applied for scho the students are selected by these es larships is not available. tablishments by open advertisement. 1615 Oral Answers 31 MARCH 1953 Oral Answers i6 ii* (b ) The scheme @f Post-Institutional as a matter of course on the ground Practical Training has been initiated of existence of arrears of work, if on the recommendations of the Scienti the leave is required for good rea fic Man Power Committee and is de sons. signed to provide, to students of En gineering and Technology, opportuni fc) In view of the reply to part ties for general practical training so (b) above, the question of increase as to condition them for useful em of staff does not arise in this context. ployment. Shrimati Renu Chakravartty: May (c) The training v/ill be given in India. I know whether Government are aware that a large number of Gov Shri Sinhasan Singh: What are the ernment offices are refusing to give institutions which impart this train leave because thev have not got en ing in India? .May I know their ough personnel? names? Shri M. C. Shah: I have said that Shri K. D. Malaviya: These insti that is not so. When there are good tutions are recognised by the Cen reasons, generally they grant leave. tral Government and they are .•situated throughout the country. I Shrimati Renu Chakravartfy: This have not got their names here. has become almost a general rule that leave is not granted. Therefore, Shri T. S, A. Chettiar: May I know I would like to know whether Gov whether these people who are chosen ernment propose to increase the num for practical training are sent there ber of leave reserve from 4 per cent, only On the guarantee that when they to the normal 14 per cent. TOme back they will be provided with jobs to their satisfaction according to Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The fact is the training they have received? not admitted. What is the good of pursuing this matter? Shri K. D. Malaviya: No such guarantee is given. Shri Vittal Rao: May I \now whe ther the percentage of leave reserve- varies from Department to Depart L eave R eserves ment? *1114. Shrimati Renu Chakravartty: Shri M. C. Shah: It is generally W ill the Minister of Fmance be 14 per cent. pleased to state: (a) the percentage of leave reserves maintained in the various departments Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The ques o f the Government of India; tion list is exhausted. To go back to it from the beginning, is Mr. Dasa- fb) whether it is a fact that earned ratha Deb here? I find he is not leave is being refused or delayed in here. Then We shall go to the next departments due to arrears of work; business. and (c) if so, whether Government in Shrimati Renu Chakravartty: Can tend to increase the strength of the we not have more questions admit staff? ted? Normally we find that We are able to get through all the questions The Deputy Minister of Finance before the first one hour. W RITTEN ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS (b) Are Government aware that it is very difficult for the Tribal minor W aste L a n d s i n M a h a r a n i a n d C h a n k a p boys in Primary Schools to get instruc A reas tion from teachers who do not know the Tribal language? . ♦1107. Shri Dasaratha Deb: W ill the Minister of States be pleased to state: (c) Do Government propose to ' appoint at least one Tribal language (a) whether it is a fact that large knowing teacher in every primary tracts of land, remain waste in Maha school of the Tribal Areas? rani and Chankap areas for want of water; The Minister of Education and (b) whether it is a fact that the Natural Resources and Scientific Re same land can be irrigated if the search (Maulana Azad): (a) Yes. water of Maharani and Chankap Chara Tribal people have got their diffe is utilised; and rent dialects, but no scriot. In the absence of a common script, Bengali,, (c) if so, what steps Government the Vernacular of the area, forms the propose to take to bring these lands medium of instruction. under cultivation? (b) This difficulty is overcome by The Minister of Home Affairs and giving the teachers a working know States (Dr. Katju): (a) to (c). It ledge in the tribal dialect of the is reported that some of these areas pupils during the neriod of initial remain waste during winter for want training, so that ih the basic stage of water. Proposals for digging wells the teachers use the dialect for expla and tanks are being examined. nation whenever necessary. (c) Tribal teachers, provided they U p l if t o f T ribes i n T r ip u r a possess the minimum educational qualifications, are always preferred ♦1108. Shri Dasaratha Deb: (a) W ill for employment in tribal'schools. the Minister of States be pleased to state whether there has been any allocation from the Tribal Welfare W o r k in g o f N e w M in e s Fund for uplift of tribal people in Tripura? 802. Shri Bheekha Bhai: Will the (b) If so, how much and how and Minister nf Natural Resources an d’ when will the amount be utilised? Scientific Research be pleased to state: (c) Is there any proposal to give (a) whether it is a fact that new representation to the Tribes from Tri mines are being worked under Mineral pura on the Central Tribal Welfare Concession Rules, 1949; and Committee? (b) if &o, whether Government pro The Minister of Home Affairs and pose to lay on the Table of the House Stat^ (Dr. KatJu): (a) and (b). a copy of these Rules? During the year 1952-53 a provision of Rs. 3 lakhs has been' sanctioned for The Minister of Education antf' the welfarp» of tribal people in Tri Natural Resources and Scientific Re pura. A provision of Rs. 5 lakhs has search (Maulana Azad): (a) The ^ e n made for the welfare of the tri Mineral Concession Rules 1949 regu bal people in Tripura for 1953-54. late the grant of certificates of ap The schemes sanctioned include pro proval, Drospecting licences and min ductive irrigation works, educational ing leases for minerals other than advancement, improvement in village petroleum and natural Sas. The rules roads and anti-malaria schemes. extend to the whole of India except the State of Jammu & Kashmir and (c) No. came into force on the 25th October, 1949. No mineral concessions can be E d u c a t io n i n T r ip u r a granted after that date otherwise than in accordance with the Mineral ♦1109. Shri Dasaratha Deb: (a) will Concession Rules and any concessions “^e Minister of Education be pleased granted contrary to the provisions of to state whether Government are those rules are void. aware that Tribal people in Tripura have got their own dialect .though they (b) Copies of the Mineral Conces bave to receive their education through sion Rules are already available im .Vernacular? the Library of the House. x i6i 9 Written Answer$ 31 MARCH 1953 Written Answers 1620 D am ag e t o C rops b y E leph an ts i n (c) the total number (State-wise) K a ilas ah a r of research scholarships given in 1952 53 and the annual value of each scho 803. Shri Dasaratha Deb: W ill the larship; • Minister of States be pleased to state: (d) out of the 30 lakhs provided for (a) whether it is a fact that the grant to universities and other institu • elephants cause damage to the crops tions for 1952-53 how many universi ‘ of the cultivators in Manu and Deo ties received grants and how many Valley, Kailasahar; applied for grant; (e) the names of the universities (b) whether it is a fact that some which received grants, the amounts > of these elephants belong to local received, also the names of those zamindars; and which were refused such grants; and (c) what steps Government have (f) out of rupees five lakhs for re taken to protect the crops there? curring grants for 1952-53 how many universities are receiving these grants, The Minister of Home Affairs and their names, and the amount received 'States (Dr. Katju): (a) and (b). by them’ Yes. The Minister of Education and (c) Whenever reports of such Natural Resources and Scientific Re damage are received, armed men are search (Maulana Azad): (a) The re deputed to scare away elephants by quired information is placed on ^he gun fire and steps taken to impound Table l " +he House. tame ones. (b) 1. . provision has not been fully spent. The expenditure so far ■CO.MMISSIOXER FOR SCHEDULED C a STES incurred during the current year is AND* T r ib e s Rs. 5,11,ion. - 804. Shri Nanadas: W ill the Minister (c) The required information is of Home Affairs be pleased to state: laid on the Tab^e of the House. (d) to (t). 26 Universities have (a) whether the Commissioner for submitted their five-year plans of : Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes development which are under the lias submitted his report for the period consideration of the Government. •ended on the 31st December, 1952; The plans of certain Universities have (b) if so, whether the report wiU be been selected for immediate imple placed on the Table of the House; and mentation and grants have been made to them this ^^ear. The cases of others (c) when it will be discussed in the are being co^isidered for grants in House? subsequent years. A statement show ing the names of Universities which have submitted their 5-year plans of The Deputy Minister of Home development, the Universities select Affairs (Shri Datar): (a) to (c). The ed for grants this year, the amount of report was rece^yed in the first week grapt, non-recurring and recurring ' of March and is being printed. The sanctioned is laid on the Table of the dates on which the copies of the re- House. [For (a), (c) and (d) to (f). rport will be laid on the Table of the See Appendix VII, annexure No. 28.1 House and it will be brought before the’ House for discussion will be set- tied as soon as printed copies are A rrests under the P reventio n of . available. C o r ru ptio n A ct 806. Shri S. C. Samanta: (a) WiU S tipen d s for T r a in in g in Eng ine er ing the Minister of Home Affairs be pleased AND I n d u strial E stablishments to state how many persons were arrest ed under the Preveution of Corruption 805. Shri Kelappan: Will the Minis Act 1947 in the year 1952? ter of Education be pleased to state: (b) How many of them were pimish- (a) how the 175 senior and 60 junior ed? . ' .•'stipends . for training in Engineering (c) What were the corresponding -and Industrial establishments for figures in 1951? graduates and diploma holders in En- i-gineering and Techonology were dis- The Minister of Home Affairs and ^tributed State-wise in 1952-53; States (Dr. Katju): (a) 51. (b) whether the sum of rupees eight (b) None, as the cases have not yei Ilakhs provided for research work in been decided. .1952-53 has been spent; (c) 40 and 10 respectively. 1621 Written Answers 31 MARCH 1953 Written Answers 1622 f^9!T edible product, soluble in milk, water and the like, which is considered to add substantially to the food value of ^oV9. ^ ITTTo : W r cocoa, chocolate, halwa etc.? ftrw ^ ^ ^ ^ : (b) If so, what is the product called and what are its contents? ( ^ ) 5 Tfw f^TSriPT^ (c) Have any experiments been made in the direction of its usefulness? % ^T^rfiJT^ (d) Are any efforts being made to produce it in commercial quantities? I ^ ^ (e) If so. by what time is it likely to be available for public consumption? |TT s r fw ^TTnm f W ^ ^TfTsi 5 1 ^ ^ 5^r ; The Minister of Education and Na tural Resources and Scientific Re search (Maulana Azad): (a) and (b). ( ^ ) ftr^TT ^ Yes. Sir. The Institute has developed % an^Tf # 3R ^ a simple method of preparing soluble caseinate, and its incorporation with ^ t, 3fh: ^rnrt^T % ^ ^ glycerophosphates to make a vitamin and mineral fortified food similar lo ^ + K % f W qirl imported Sanatogen. It lends itself to easy admixture with other foods, 5rr2TT5TT t ; thereby enhancing their nutritive value. r The contents are a protein such as (5 ) # ?TFT^ ^ |TT Casein, or groundnut protein, vita mins and minerals. ■ f e n % ^ q % sttt ^ % (c ) Yes, Sir. (d) The process has been tried at the Central Food Technological Re f^oTTjfy qr fwr I ; OTT search Institute, Mysore only on a pilot plant scale and has been cover ( ^ ) ^fk ^t; ^Y-'w W ed by a patent. ^ I ? (e) The process ig now available ) ■ a» for private exploitation. The Minister of Education and Natural Resources and Scientific Re Services in N ew D elh i C olo nies search (Maulana Azad): (a) to (d). The deliberations and recommenda 809. Shri Gidwani: (a) WiU the Min tions of the All India Educational ister of Rehabilitation be pleased to Conference held in the last week of state whether it is a fact that the New December at Nagpur, have not so far Delhi Municipal Committee have agree- been officially communicated to the ed to accept the responsibility from Government of India, the 1st of April 1953 of undertaking to (b) The Commission has recorded maintain services in the New Delhi the evidences of prominent educa Colonies, provided the services were tionists, and other persons interested improved by the Rehabilitation Minis in education. It is expected that they try? wiU present their Report to iiie Gov ernment of India .by May 1953. (b) Has the attention of Government been drawn to the statement made by the Medical Officer of Health of N ew Ed ible P roduct f o l n d b y the the New Delhi Municipal Committee C entral F ood T echnological R esfakch that in Lajpat Nagar, Kotla Mubarak- I nstitu te pur and other colonies within the New Delhi Municipal Committee area, the SOR Shri M. L. Dwivedi: sanitary conditions were exceedingly \Shri S. C. Samanta: poor and that the drains were not connected with sewers, and there wcjre (a) Will the Minister of Natural no street lightings and roads were Resources and Scientific Research uneven? be pleased to state whether it is a fact that the Central Food (c) If so, what action has been taken Technological Research Institute, by Government to improve the condi Mysore has been able to find out a new tions? 28 PSD. 1623 Written Answers 31 MARCH 1953 Written Answers 1624 The Deputy Minister of Rehabilha- of foreign experts or consultants , Utm (Shri J. K. Bhonsle): (a) No re engaged by private industries. In re ference has been received by the gard to foreign experts employed by Ministry of Rehabilitation. Central Government or obtained un der technical assistance schemes, for (b) According to the Delhi State the development of industries, infor Government^ thle Me(d&al Officer o£ mation is being collected and will be Health only referred to sanitary con made available as soon as possible. ditions in Lajpatnagar and pointed out that proper drainage and sewerage have not been provided in that colony. Statue of Sh r i G om atesw ara (c) Drains and sewers have nearly 812. Shri Madiah Gowda: W ill the been completed in two neighbourhoods Minister of Education be pleased to of Lajpatnagar and the work in the state: other two neighbourhoods is in hand. (a) whether Government are aware D earness A llo w a n c e to T eachers o f that the statue of Shri Gomateswara T ripur a at Siravanabalagnla (Mysore) has been corroded to some extent; and 810. Shri Biren Dutt: (a) WiU the Minister of Education be pleased to (b) if so, whether any steps have state what dearness allowance, if any, been taken or are proposed to be is given to the private school teachers taken to prevent any further corrosion? of Tripura? The Minister of Education and Na- (b) What portion of it is being borne tnral Resources and Scientific Re by Government? search (Maulana Azad); (a) and (b). (c) If the answer to part (b) above Yes: necessary steps are being taken be in the negative, do Government in the matter. propose to give dearness allowance to those teachers, at least according to I n d ia n N a t io n a l Co m m issio n the West Bengal scale? The Minister of Education and Na 813. Shri K. C. Sodhia; (a) W ill the tural Resources and Scientific Re Minister of Education be pleased to search (Maulana Azad): (a) No state the fimctions of the Indian Na dearness allowance is given to private tional CommissiDn for Co-operation school teachers of Tripura State by with UNESCO? Government. (b) What is the present personnel of (b) Does not arise. the Commission? (c) The qwestion is under consi- (c) Is it a statutory body? deration. (d) If so, under what Act has it F oreign Experts been constituted? 811. Shri Sivamurthi Swami: (a) Will The Minister of Education and Na the Minister of Finance be pleased to tural Resources and Scientific Re state how many foreign agencies are search (Maulana Azad): (a) (i) To ■working now in our industrial field? promote the understanding of the objects and purposes of UNESCO (b) How many foreign experts have among the Peoples of the Republic of been called to develop our industries India; in various fields'? (ii) To serve as a liaison agency (c) What are the yearly or monthly between UNESCO and the institutions expenses incurred on them? concerned with and working for the The Deputy Minister of Finance progress of education, science and cul (Shri M. C. Shah); (a) On the as ture; and sumption that by ‘foreign agencies’ (iii) To act in an advisory capacity what the bon. member refors to is to the Government of India in matters "firms and companies controlled by relating to UNESCO. foreigners’, the attached statement shows the position as on 30th June, (b) A statement is placed on the 1948; Government have no inform s Table of the House [Sec Appendix tion regarding the present position. VII, annexure No. 30.1 ISee Appendix VII, annexu*re No. 29.] (c) No. (b) and (c) Gov=;:nment have no information in regard to the number (d) Does not arise- Written Answers 1626 '6 25 Written Answers 31 M A R C H 1953 b-:OMMITTEE FOR IMPROVEMENT OF HISTORY and Deo Valley in Tripura State are ^ T ext Books flooded each year causing damage to crops and rendering a large tract ol rf 814. Shri K. C. Sodhia: (a) W ill the land uncultivable? Minister of Education be pleased to 'state the chief principles formulated (b) If so, what steps do Govern iby the Committee for the improvement ment propose to take to prevent this j^f History text books and whether any and reclaim the tract for agriculture? iext books have been or are being The Minister of Home Affairs an4 written in, accordance with these? States (Dr. Katju): (a) Yes. ■ (b) What are the principles formu (b) A scheme is under preparation. lated for the guidance of teachers? The Minister of Education and Na V acancies i n External A ffairs M in is t r y tural Resources and Scientific search (Maulana Azad): (a) and (b). A statement is placed on the Table of 817. Shri H. S. Prasad: (a) W ill the the House. [See Appendix VII, an- Minister of Home Affairs be pleased to state how many permanent vacancies nexure No. 31.] in tJie grade of Superintendents, Assis tants, and Clerks occurred in the L ite racy in T ripur a External Affairs Ministry as a result of the Central Government employees *15. Shri Dasaratha Deb: (a) WiU opting for Pakistan in July-August the Minister of Education be pleased 1947? to state what is the percentage of illi teracy in Tripura? (b) Is it a fact that according to a Home Ministry’s directive it was the (b) Is it a fact that a non-official responsibility of each administrative Organisation namely, Jana Siksha Ministry to absorb those who opted for Samiti has organised about one thou India, from their offices in areas now sand primary schools for the last five in Pakistan? years? (c) If so, how many employees who (c) How many of them receive opted for India, and were serving in Government aid and how many still areas now in Pakistan, were absorbed remain to receive aid? in the External Affairs Ministry (d) Why several thousands of rupees initially and how many were absorbed from Education Head have been sur later on, on their representation? rendered this year? The Minister of Home Affairs aad (e) What steps do Government pro States (Dr. Katju): (a) The number pose to lake to rpmov’o illiteracy in of vacancies was as follows:— Tripura? Superintendents Nil The Minister of Education and Na Assistants 12 tural Resources and ScienUfic Re search (Maulana Azad): (a) 87-3 per Clerks 10 cent. (b) Yes; each department v/as ask (b) No. ed to absorb all such persons, as far as possible, and to report any surplus (c) Does not arise. or deficit to the Home Deoartment (d) This year’s allotment for grant- for inter-departmental adjustment. in-aid to Primary schools has been (c) Thirty-one initially and one on fully utilised and not surrendered. representation. (e) 80 Primary Schools and 10 Lower Vernacular Schools, with GRANT'S TO States in N o n -H in d i Speak Boatding House facilities, have been in g A reas started during the year 1952-53 under Tribal Welfare Schemes. Pro vision for new schools and Boarding 818. Shri Achuthan: (a) Will the Houses has also been made for the Minister of Education be pleased to year 1953-54. state whether the Government of India make any specific grant to States in U ncultivable L and in M anu an d D eo non-Hindi speaking areas to meet ex V alle y ( T r ip lh a ) penditure for teaching Hindi? 816. Shri Dasaratha Deb: (a) Will (b) If 90, what amount has been so the Minister of States be pleased to sanctioned and to which States since state whether it is a fact that about the coming into force of the Constitu ^evfcr, square miles of land in the Manu tion of India? 1627 W ritten Answers 31 MARCH 1953 W ritten Answers 162? The Minister of Education and Na- tnral Resources and Scientific Re 5 ^ 1 w s t search (Maulana Azad): (a) In the opinion of the Government this work can be carried on better by such non- oflk;ial agencies as are already work ing in this field. The Government have given them grants and are now preparijng a new scheme of work in connection with the Five-Year Plan. (b) Does not arise. Scheduled C astes and Backw ard C lasses Scholarships The Minister of Defence Organisa tion (Shri Tyagri): Under Defence 819. Shri Elayaperumal: (a) Will Ministry there are: the Minister of l^ucation be pleased to state how many Scheduled Castes (i) 17 aerodromes occupied by the and Backward classes candidates’ I.A.F. and maintained for day applications for scholarships were to day use, and received from the Annamalai Uni versity for the year 1951-52? (ii) 25 maintained for emergency use. (b) How many of these were sanc tioned? ' An approximate estimate of tiie ex The Minister of Education and Na penditure on their maintenance dur tural Resources and Scientific Re ing 1952 is Rs. 80 lakhs. search (Maulana Azad); (a) Schedul ed Castes Nil. Other Backward Clas N a t io n a l P h y sic al L aborato ry, N ew ses 48, D elh i (b ) Other Backward Classes 8. 823. Shri M. L. Agrawal; ill the Minister oi Natural Resources and D isplaced an d D estitute W om e n’ s Scientific Research be pleased to state; H omEjR upsi ' (a) the present organisational set up 821. Shri Amjad AK: W ill the Minis of the National Physical Laboratory, ter of Rehabilitation be pleased to state; New Delhi; (a) whether during his last tour in (b), how many senior and junior Assam, h^ visited the “Displaced and Science Assistants are employed at Destitute Women’s Home” at Rupsi present in the Laboratory and what (District Goalpara, Assam); salaries and allowances they draw, and (b) the number of such destitutes (c) the total expenditure incuried on living there; the Laboratory during the vear 1952 53 on the following items separately; (c) whether any steps have since been taken to provide them with a (i) salaries and allowances: and living; (ii) equipment and apparatus? (d) whether requests to shift them to town-areas were made by Nari- The Minister of Education and Na Kelyan Samiti of Dhubri; and tural Resources and Scientific Re (e) if so, with what results? search (Maulana Azad); (a) The -National Physical Laboratory is one of the National Laboratories under The Minister of Rehabilitation (Shri the control of the Council of Scientific A. (P. Jain): (a) Yes. and Industrial Research. The Labora (b ) Sevenijy-five. tory has as its head, Dr. K. S. Krish- nan, as Director, who has under him (c) All the inmates of the Home are various scientific staff. The staff is provided with free board and divided into categories of Assistant lodging at Government expense and Directors who are Heads of the' Ihey are trained in various vocations. various Divisions of_ the Laboratory and under them are Senior Scientific (d ) and (e). A representation made Officers. Junior Scientific Officers "by the Dhubrtii Congress Committee Senior Scientific Assistants, Junioi for shifting the Home is under consF- Scientific Assistants, Laboratory Assts deration. tants, etc. 1630 81 MARCH 1953 Written Answers 1629 Written Answert (c) The expenditure incurred dur (b) 20 SenUJr Scientific A^stants ing 1052-53 is:— in the grade of lU. 250-25-500. (1) Salaries Rs. 10.10,300 ^^^lowances Rs. 5,35,000 47 Junior Scientific Assistants in the grade of Rs. 160-10-330. Total Rs. 15,45,300 (These are revised estimates for This staff gets the same allowances the year). admissible under rules to Government (ii) Equipment and aPP^ra^s Servants i.e. Dearness Allowance. (actuals upto January, 1953). House Rent Allowance and Compen Rs. 1,28,202. satory Allowance. PSD. THE p.v- PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (Part II— ^Proceedings other than Questions and Answers) OFFICIAL REPORT 3331 3332 HOUSE OF THE PEOPLE coins and notes of the denomina tional value of ona rupee may Tuesday, 31st March, 1953. continue to be legal tender, to re peal the Hyderabad Paper Cur rency Act No. II of 1327F and to make certain other incidental The House met at Two of the Clock provisions, as passed by the Coun [M r . D e pu t y -S pe a k e r in the Chair] cil of States, be taken into consi deration.” QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS I have to observe that normally (See Part I) when time is fixed or particular dates are allotted for Budgfet discussion this period is not interrupted by any other 12-50 P.M. work. I was obliged to put down this work here on the ground that PAPERS LAID ON THE TABLE this has to receive the assent o f ther President today. It is unfortunate -Ag r e e m e n t s m ^ spect of the p r o that yesterday evening Government p r ie t o r y RiGffrs OVER A t o m ic did not take care to keep the proper M in e r a l s quorum here. Otherwise I would have got on with this 'work. The Minister of Home Affairs and States (Dr. Katju): I beg to lay on the Table a copy of each of the Agree The Deputy Minister of Finance ments entered into between the Pre (Shri M. C. Shah); As I said yester sident of India and the Rajpramukhs day, I am grateful to the hon. Mem of Part B States (except Jammu and bers of the House for welcoming this Kashmir) relating to the proprietory measure. In the course of the debate Tights of the State over atomic miTie- certain su^estions were made by xals. [Sae Aopendix VII, annexure some hon. Members. The most impor No. 25.] , tant of them was that ample facilities should be given for conversion and exchange of Hali Sicca to Indian cur rency. I may inform the House that ESTATE DUTY BILL We had already made ample arrange ments for these exchange facilities on P resentation of R e po rt of S elect a very big scale. We had authorised C o m m it t e e the Government of Hyderabad to spend up to one lakh of rupees in publicity The Minister of Finance (Shri C. an^ were prepared to give as much D. Deshmukh): I beg to present the facility as possible. We were in ■Report of the Select Committee on correspondence with the Hyderabad the Bill to provide for the levy and State Government on that point also. -collection of an estate duty. But then representations came that il these one rupee and smaller coins were not to be treated as legal tender TIYDERABAD COINAGE AND PAPER for an extended period there might CURRENCY (MISCELLANEOUS PRO be some difficulty in the rural areas, VISIONS) BILL— cOTitd. that there might be exploitation of the poor by certain unscrupulous ele Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The House will ments. Certain Members of Parlia pow take up further consideration of ment waited in deputation on the the motion: Finance Minister and the Government of the Hyderabad State also made re "That the BiU to extend the presentations. On a review of the ^ period during which Hyderabad whole position the Government of 30 PSD 3333 Hyderabad Coinage 31 MARCH 1953 and Paper Currency 3334- (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill [Shri M. C. Shah] India have come to the conclusion With these words I commend this. that for two years more this currency, Bill for the acceptanfje of the House. one rupee coins and smaller coins Mr. Deputy-Speaker; The question shall remain legal tender. is: _ At the same time, in order to give “That the Bill to extend the more facilities to the poorer classes period during which Hyderabad of people, the Government of India coins and notes of the denomina have agreed on the representation of • tional value of one rupee may the Hyderabad State Government, that continue to be legal tender, to re not only small coins will be legal peal the Hyderabad Paper Cur tender for two years, but some addi rency Act No. II of 1327F and to tional coins of smaller denomination make certain other incidental (eight ann^s and below) will be issued, provisions, as passed by the Coun as far as available and necessary. So cil of States, be taken into consi the suggestion that all possible facili deration.” ties for exchange and conversion should be given to the people of Hy The motion was adopted. derabad State has already been under Mr. Deputy-Speaker: There are n o the consideration of Government. amendments to any of the clauses. We shall also write to the Hyderabad I shall, therefore, put all the clauses Government to do the needful in the together. matter. Now, as there are two years Shri V. G. Deshpande (Guna): I more for this purpose, I am sure that would like to make one observation. there will be no hardship to the poorer people in the rural areas and they Mr. Deputy-Speaker: On what? will avail of- the facilities granted to them for a further period of two Shri V. G. Deshpande: On the Bill. years. Mr. Deputy-Speaker: I am afraid the hon. Member has missed the bus. Then there were other points raised If he has any observations pertaming which have no bearing on the subject to the Third Reading he may do so. and I do not think any rep^y to them is necessary. It was suggested that Clauses 1, 2, 3 an d^ , the Title and there should be coordination between the Enacting Formula were added to the Centre a^d the Hyderabad State the Bill. Government. I can assure the House Shri M. C. Shah: I beg to move: that on this point there is sufficient co-ordination between the State Gov “ That the Bill be passed.” ernment and, the Centre, so there need be no anxiety on that scrore. Mr. Deputy-Speaker:Motion moved; “ That the Bill be passed.” It was stated that all the assets and liabilities of the currency and coinage Shri V. G. Deshpande: I rise to op should be taken over by the Centre pose the Bill and make an observa and all the currency must come to tion. I do not find a n y reason why the Centre. I may say that the mo this discrimination is hemg made m ment the Hyderabad State integrated the case of Hyderabad State There with the Union all the assets and lia was currency in the case bilities. as far as currency and ex different States and now all those change were concerned, became the currencies have been stopped and assets and liabilities of the Centre. here we find that a new lease of life So, there ought to be no apprehension IS bejing given to this cu^ency. I on that score either. can understand the hardslnp of the rural people. But now the Hyderabad Government is allowed to issue m o.e About currency in circulation cer smaller coins like eight annas. tain figures were quoted. But 1 may inform the House that those figures How. Members: No, no. were not absolutely correct. Accordr ing to our information on the 25th Shri M. C. Shah: I am afraid the February 1953, the volume of one hon. Member was not Present yester rupee coins in circulation were to the day. The Hyderabad State will not extent of Rs. 8’ 33 crores and currency issue any new currency after this notes of Rs. five and above were to Bill is passed. the tune of Rs. 35-60 crores, that is Slhri V. G. Deshpande:While reply- a total of Rs. 43.93 crores. We are infi to the Debate the hon. Deputy; sure that in the course of these two Minister said that smaller coins will years all this currency and coinage be issued in the next two years will be covered into Indian currency. 3335 Demands for Grants 31 MARCH 1953 Demands for Grants 3336 Shri M. C. Shah: What I stated ^ anro was small coins of the denomination of eight annas and less, if necessary, 5ft, ^ for the purpose of just removing the difficulties of the poorer classes for which the hon. Member is so anxious. ^ TfT «TT ^ ^ Shri V. G. Deshiiaiide: So, it will* be issued. That is what I am opposing. ^ IT ^irfNr ^ i Dr. Suresh Chandra (Aurangabad): This is just wasting time of the House. All this has been discussed- yesterday. Shri V. G. Deshpande: I protest against this remark. ^ ^TFT % ^ Swami Ramananda Tirtha (Gul- berga), rose— ^ Mr. Deputy-Speaker: If the hon ?rr5r ^3^ ^ ^ Member had not been interrupted he would have finished by this time. % ^ 5irf% ^ ^ Shri V. G. Deshpande: What I want to observe is that the Governinent of Hyderabad should not be allowed to ’Tt, ^ ^ ^ I issue any more new coins, even of smaller denominations on the plea ^ ^ C % ?rT3IK that the poorer classes would be ^ ^ ^ ^ spfqrr benefited. I want that the ‘Char Minar’ should go away completely. ^ ^ Dr. Jaisoorya (Medak): If I have heard the hon. Deputy Finance Minister rightly, he said by this step they are taking over all the assets and liabi lities. Am I to assume, therefore, that the Government of India will take up.the responsibility for the Govern ment promissory notes that the Gov *t>a ^ ^ ernment of Hyderabad have issued up tiU now. ^ ^ ^ ^ TFJq- 3 P.M. ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ Shri M. C. Shah: That question does not arise. The question is about currency and coinage and the reserves for their backing. And we have taken all those assets and liabilities as far ^ OT’Tfer ^ ^sTPT ^*trt as currency and coinage are,concern ed. That is what I have stated very clearly. ^ ^ ^ OT ftr ^ Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The question is: “ That the Bill be passed.” The motion was adopted. t' I ^ DEMANDS FOR GRANTS Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The House ^ I ’ ^ ^ will proceed with the further discus sion of the Demands for Grants re tr|^(address) t ^ ^ lating to the Mini.stry of Home Affairs and the Ministry of States. Siiri R. ^ ^ TT^r ?rwnT ^strtt t , w^rz D. Misra was in possession of the House. I 3337 Demands for Grants 31 MARCH 1953 Demands for Grants 3538 [«ft anTo ^ Trsrnrt ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ?ft^ ^ ^ ^TRTT ^ f% q^ ^ ^ fJTR ^ Tr^tr ^*t>K “tiiH qr^ ^ ®t‘i*T t 3T^r^5r % ^FTT 5Ft ^ f %r^.=r ?rnT >fV ^ ^ ^r^r ^rq?t f sT ^ rt ?fk ^ q'a’^ ?rrf%T ^TTT ^ I' I fTJ^ ^ ^ t ' ^^TiT 5 ^ qrrTTT^J^^ f *n r q^ t Tt o : m f ^ ^ ^ ^qr ^'TT> f ^r?7T q’RT ^ ^ 4^kHi qtq^ % I fsr^r^f' ^TR qTrfT«TT^? ^^qr# ’T ^ fiT, ^j^pf’q’f 97 rf^ ^ f , ^ ?rr*T HT%r?f 'Trr^qr^'j x^ m w | ^ o ITo, TT^o tTo « | 'ti< f ^ T^% ^ q r i f^?*T ?rrf^ C ^TJTiT:^' ^ if^ q r % ^ 'Tf ^ % qr^ ^qr q^ ^ % ^5rr^^ ^'mr q r q r^f ^ I ThPR? ^ ^ ^qr q^ q^ ^ f^T7> ^ r^rJTf f^qr w'T^ C» ^ 5T^^ ^ t q^ ^r f ^TRlf ^-fr ^ ^ WT^TW g;^Frr ^ f5T^^ ^ I ^TT^T ^ m fe T # ^^Tff I t I ?rn5r ?TFT ^qr =qr^^ ^ t f s t t wtq^ ^ ^q^ ^ f^q, ^rq ^ q l r i fJT'PT^ ^ ?TT)T^ ^ < ?T ■ ^ TF3TT ?T^ f I ?rT^ ^^fr ^ ^z % Trf%qr^ % q^ t f s t ^ m f ?ftT tr^ fe ft w^T #Tr3rr«f,^t^^^qq^q- ^ 1% ^ ^N(<1 ^ ^ q?t Iftrq^^^qTT ^ ^1f TT #3 'W q ^ ^5T TfT f ^ ^ cTTf ^ I ^ ? T ¥ q" q^ “f^iH f^^^Tqr, 'fTr^^T% ^ ?rcf iTI^Kl ^ f^* q=qf qr #5 |Tt TRT^ff ^ ^T^TT ^ T ^ftX ^ ^ ^ 5TTfw q-ft % ^ jfr jf‘!T d ^ I ^rf^FT TRTSf *r «lm'^ld ^^ffr'T^n’f^^iPa ^TvTT^ f ^ fsFRft ’T>i ^ m fw 1% ^ ^ wfW ^ ^ttIw ^ f P^ % ^T T T ^ ^TTJfr ^ ^ t , ^ ^ % ^ q l r ?nr3- ^ f w #' sfKr^F^r ^ ■ ’ T 1 ¥ ^ P^-^WH ^ ? c|^l ■^H ^ 'Jl+fl'^l 0 ^ ^Hd % TT^ ^ft^ w f ^TfT ^ F ^ ^ ^ r h w q x ^ ^ 'TT ¥Hl<^lOf ^ 'TT ^ sfTtI cft^ ^ tf^h: ^Tfr, ^ R m^<\<\ ^ ^ ^ TTfH: t ^ ^>r P^ ^ % w n ^iW i t ?T^^^?T^|f^?TFT^RTF5rT afk T m ^ % vMt, i^rfkir ^ ^H+') s^IIIh^ »T^ ^iTTTT •'ll^a I H I i^, ^ cf'»i^ ^ IV [«ft mio fto Pt«t] ^ ^[TWU ^ «TT I ^ ^ 5TTT % 37TT 3T^ t f% ^ ^ ^ (T^ f r m ^ m ^ WT ^ I ^ ^ % ^“t, ?ftT ^ ^ ^TT I w r ’TT 1% ^^qrr ft i ^ fe r 5TT5K f^ ?m m < t Cf ^ ?f?r3r 3TfT ^ ^jTR"^ w l" ^ ^ ^yr. ^5T^ ^ ^ ^ ^ • ^ ^ ^ I ? fk ?rrT # t , ^ ^ ■H ^rrp#* ^ ^ ^ < m < i^ mT<^ ^ t ^ ^ =5TTf^ t ^ Hl+IH^R’ T| 1 ?rrT f ^ iTRt t > I ^TT^ ifhift ^ t t ^ ^ qrr T ^ ‘, w p : ^ ^ I ’ttt ^ spt ^ ^ ^ % ^ I 5TFT ^frf^' fV p- f^ ^ ^ ^ fV 2Tft ^ f H ^ ^ ^ ^f^nrR w t • ' ^ t 3343 Demands for Grants 31 MARCH 1953 Demands for Grants 3344 ^ ^ ?Trr ipu ^ srm ^ #, »rf ?ft ^ ftJT 2TT ^ftr ?ftr ^fft% TK i % ^TRT f I ^ qr ^ ?rnT ^ m ^ ^ T^ar f ^ I I ^ TRRW t ^ ? ciTf¥ ?TFT ^ ^ ^ t% ^ ^ 5^r?fi‘ 2TK I ^ ^ I I ' I ^ ^ ^ ^ *ti<.«D f T ^ m I ^ iw w I wr ^ T t ^^f2TT ^ I % WTTPT ^ ?rr^ T^ ^ ^'^Tl ^ ? ?rrT f ’T t • ^ HMiI h ?r?f?T : ^ ifrrr tr^ ^tfht t ‘ f t ^Tf ? " f , ? fk f qr f ^ ^ W[^ ^ ^ 3TTTo ^ o f i ^ : ^ I ^ ^ w I w ? m ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ q j I ^r^T^T ¥t ^ ^ % ^HTR if>ftf irg^ ^n’ I ^ [^<511 ^ *id^ci WT 5 ? ^ ^f^>?TTt, w m WT ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^jrPPT 3T4fNit ^ 1 ?rrT ^ t t I €t ^rm %| ?nf ^ q ^ f m I TF5TT ^ ^ ^ #s ^ f I ?ttt ^ ^ 1^ TRT sFTPTT ^m" ^ ^ I ^ «rif 5f?t q r ^ I ^ % ?F^ ^ T^ f^Rf ^ i% Mlf^tTiM ^ TpTT I ^ ^ ^ 5T'5TRr^ 1 ?ftT ^ ^ %3nrRTW ^ ^ ^<1^1 ^f«T ^ T ^ ifTi% ^ f lift • q ^ 1 - ^f^RK 3T1 «ft »Tt^ 'T=5rPT#‘ ^ I 5T ^ % % K ? ^ ^ q ^ ?f^ ^ n+)Ai I I w ^ % 1 1 w ^ % w # % ^rsTRf^ «TT. . i \ r ^ X t ^ ^ t q;f^^?r, ^ w - ‘^ 1^-^’ % ?n^ $rmRT^ z[j Mr. Deputy-Speaker: If the hon. Member looks at me he will follow sr^mr =h<^i, '?rf^ ' %Trr?f ^ me. He has taken more than 15 minutes. He will conclude now. W ^> ^ ^ C ' m ’ % f ’’ircm ^ % TfT ^ /3 tt' % «ft ariTo 5^0 fVrJsr : w tk ^ ft ?t1t ^ t ^ ^ ^ ^TFT ^ ^ ^ f^TRT ^TTfrwRT # ; t % ^ % ' % ^ 1 ?rnr ^ ^ #5f ?nf ’ H# t ^r%r, ‘^ ’ % jttt f f?r, ^ ^r*T^ ^T?TRr ^TTT ^ % ^ I ^Kd^r ?rrq7 f^fd^^nR^iq, '?rr ^ IV ’M^K ^TTT ^ I ^ ^TTT ^ 'T^ ^T%TT % ^ K l % 3»RT ^ «TT ^ T ^ ,t • ^ ^ W T I I 3345 Demands for Grants 31 MARCH 1953 Demands for Grants 334 ^ Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Order, order of self-suppression, after the advent please. The hon. Member must con of power, we are going to the other clude. Nothing more. extreme. We are not only over-criti cal, but are also hostile, whereas The Deputy Minister of Home what was required on our part was; AJIairs (Shri Datar): Yesterday, in a sense of appreciation. Therefore, the course of the debate, frequent if you require an administration that references were made and the Jlome is entirely efficient, these are the va Ministry was criticised on a number rious requirements that have ta of grounds. One was that the adr be fulfilled. mihistration was not honest and that there was no sufficient integrity on [M r . S pea ke r in the Chair] the part of the public services. Then it was contended that the old Civil So far as the public services are Servants who had been brought up concerned, especially in India where in an atmosphere of autocracy have we have a permanent service,—^we not sufficiently adjusted themselves to have no officers who go out when the democratic set-up. The third ob ever there is a change in the Govern*- jection that was raised was that cor ment; here the officers from top to ruption was rampant in all the classes bottom are permanent— it is their duty of services and for this purpose a re that they ought to keep aloof from ference was made to the Five Year D olitics, from all controversial matters. Plan. The Five Year Plan deals with It is their duty to carry out the policy administration and lays down certain of the Government for the time being important principles that have to be in office. For that purpose a certain implemented by the Government pro measure of loyalty is expected. If it vided that the adininistration will is found that there are certain parties carry out what it is intended to carry or cer'vain vested interests who try out. You will find from the Chapter - to tamper with this loyalty, then^ on “Administration” that three factors every effort would be made by the have to be taken into account One fGovernment in power to enforce the is the political leadership, the other is strictest loyalty so far as the public the public services and the third is services are concerned. the i>eople in general. Now, so far as Yesterday, we heard two voices sa these three factors are concerned, un far as public services were concerned. less aU these three factors join to At one time it was contended by, the gether in mutual co-operation, it will Opposition that the conditions of ser not be possible to have a prosperous vice of these public services were not and successful administration. So good at all, that they had no sense far as political leadership is concerned, of security. On the other hand, it they form .the Government and they was also contended with a show of lay down the policy. So far as the so-called sympathy, because real sym services are concerned, it is their duty pathy there was none, that their to implement the policy as it is salaries especially the salaries of the laid down by the Government of the topmost officers were extravagant... . time. It is not open to the public services to enter into any political Shri N. Sreekantan Nair (Quilon questions: nor is it open to them to cum Mavelikkara): No. sjmjpathy with criticise the Government so long as them. they are members of the Government. So far as the public is concerned, it Shri Datar: ...... and secondly, it is the duty of the public to criticise was also stated that so far as these* to a reasonable extent, but. while cri persons were concerned, they were ticising, it is also their duty to be subjected to arbitrary reversions and appreciative. All these factors have retrenchment. In this connection, if been laid down. we want our public services to be what they are, we have to give them three Yesterday, unfortunately, a Member conditions. One condition is that w e from this side, quoted one sentence must save them from carping from the Five Year Plan to the effect criticism. Now, so far as these ser that there has been or that there has vices are concerned, they are not set in a lot of inefficiency so far as here. It is open to the Opposition to- the present administration was con- criticise to their hearts* content, to the of defending themselves. Therefore These allegations, or rather wild al what is required as ap elementary legations of corruptions have been principle of justice or fair play is that, made here inside the Parliament as as the hon. Speaker pointed out yes also outside the Parliament. With terday, if there are any instances,— due deference to the hon. Member there might be some—^where a public from Bilaspur, Madhya Pradesh, I servant is guilty of misconduct, such was riot prepared to hear the wildest instances ought to be brought to the and almost sweeping allegations that notice of the Government concerned. be made about the services in general. 'Hie Government will not be slow in It is always the duty of the Members enquiring into the matter and if it is to inform the Government, and the found that the misconduct has been pleasure and privilege of the Govern proved, naturally the strongest action ment to encmire into all these allega would be taken and he would be sub tions, and n these allegations are jected to the greatest penalty. While proved, to take the strongest action we have this object in view, as I have against them. In fact, in this connec said, the first duty is to save the tion, I would invite the attention of public servants from carping criti- the House, to one important circum cjsm. The second point is that they stance. The Government of India have to be trusted so long as they are in have what is known as the Delhi office subject to the stern requirement Special PoUce Establishment. This that they carry out the policy of establishment costs India Rs. 20 lakhs the Government. Thirdly, you should a year. This establishment has been give them a sense of security. So far brought into existence solely for the as the sense of security is concerned, purpose of rooting out corruption. I would point out one or two circum You will also agree. Sir. that corrup*- stances. In 1950, the Constitution tion, black-marketing, all these evils • came into force. Before that, we had are the contributions of war to the - SL class of highest service to which post-war period. The worst form certain salaries and emoluments were of human depravity has come out, given, which certainly were not what worst passions and worst avarice are' they ought to have been. In 1946, now seen. Therefore, it is true that the former Government of India took all the world over,—this is not con into account the fact that these fined only to India—there are many salaries were beyond all proportion cases of corruption. Whenever there and therefore appointed a Committee are such cases, then, it is the duty of to go into the question. That Com every Indian, it is the duty of all mittee recommended that the salaries Members of Parliament on this side of the topmost officers should be re or that to give us the advantage of their ■ duced by at least 25 per cent. All mformation. It will be our duty to those recommendations have been ac sift that information and then to find’ cepted by the Government which out what is there. I would point out came into power after Independence. that the Commission has been dealing You will also find that we have given very rigorously and strictly so far as- certain guarantees to what were known rooting out of corruption is concerned. formerly as the covenanted services. T may also give here for your informa These guarantees were given by the tion certain figures which show to • late Sardar Patel. They have also what extent Government have been been embodied in the Constitution. acting without any mercy so far as- Under these circumstances, so long as such wrongdoers are concerned. Dur the Constitution remains what it is, so ing the last two years 1951 and 1952, long as these guarantees are there, the we had a number of cases against question arises whether in time and a ^ e r ^ t claves o f officers. Now.. out of time, it is open to the Members contention is made of this House and the public at large that we always catch the smaller fry to go on always harping on the ques and leave aside the bigger fish. That tion that some officers are getting is not the case at all here. more than what they should. My submission is,—you will find that Shri Jaipal Smgrh (Ranchi West— their number is small, is not much— Tribes): How many that we will have to stick to these big fish have been caught? guarantees. Unless the Constitution . Shri Datar: That is what I am read itself is amended and the guarantees ing. taken away, they will hav^to be given whatever has been agreed to be given Mr. Speaker: Let him proceed. as salaries, etc. Shri Datar: If the hon. Members ^ will allow me to give certain figures, The next question that I should like then they would show how Govern to deal with is the important question ment have been dealing with all the- o f the rampant :^ature of corrupticsL classes of Government servants, froms>' 3349 Demands for Grants 31 MARCH 1953 Demands for Grants 3350 [Shri Datar] top to bottom, from th'e I.C.S. at the an opportunity to explain their con top to the lowest postman in the diffe duct, and in case it is found that rent parts of the country. You will they are guilty under disciplinary find that during these two years we jurisdiction, then action is taken have as many as 45 cases registered either by way of dismissal or by way against gazetted officers. Now, these of reduction. So, these are the va gazetted officers are of various rious steps that are being taken by grades, and against them 45 cases Government to root out corruption. have been registered. Against com missioned Officers in the Army, we Now, for rooting out corruption, one have registered cases, and their num of the important points that we re ber is 13; and those whd* are non quire is public co-operation, and pub gazetted or who are non-commission lic co-operation is often lacking. In ed, their number comes to about 463. fact, we have a temptation for getting And every year this Department has things easily done by giving easy been carrying on very rigorously the money. We are not in a mood to be work of rooting out corruption. Cases strict or to be stern, but, ultimately, are registered and then it is found the character of the nation has to be that under the present Code of Crimi- developed, and if it is developed, then jnal Procedure which has got a certain corruption will be a matter of the technical side, it is difficult for us past. often to prove an offence, because the technicalities of the law have to be Then, the next question I would complied with. deal with is the one that was raised by the Opposition. They stated that Shri Bhagrwat Jha (Purnea cum the number of officers or Government Santal Parganas); Why do you not servants who were only temporary was amend that? larger than the number of those who Mr. Speaker: Order, order. Let were permanent. So far as this is there be no talk between Members. concerned I would refer to certain The hon. Minister need not take notice figures which have been collected just of it. He may proceed. now. They would show that the hon. Members’ information was entirely in Shri Datar: I am coming to every correct. We have got here the figures. point. So far as the permanent employees are concerned, as in June, 1948, t h ^ So far as these cases are concerned, were 6.97,000— i.e.. about seven lakh's, whenever it is found that we have and there were seven lakhs who were got sufficient legal evidence according temporary. You will find it was im to the requirements of the laws of mediately after the war was over evidence and criminal procedure, then So, the number of those who were sanction is given and the officers are temporary and those who yere per pros,ecuted. Where it is found that manent were almost equal. You will the case for prosecution may not be find after two years, i.e., in June, 1951, so strong, then we have got also what the permanent employees are eleven is known as the Public Servants lakhs and the temporary employees Conduct Act under which there is a are only five lakhs. So far as these semi-judicial enquiry, and that en temporary employees are concerned, quiry gives us the benefit of know you have also to take account of an ing the views of one of the highest other very impi>rtant factor, viz., that judicial officers of the land. One en»- the Government of the d ay ' is not a quiry is at present going on. It is Government which has merely to going on even today. It is a public carry on the administration, maintain enquiry, and when that enquiry comes law and order and collect revenues, to an end, we shall have the report but it is and it purports to be a wel or the findings of the judicial officer fare State, and in order to carry^ on on which we can act. various welfare activities, the Gov Then we have also what is known ernment have to employ a very large as the Departmental Enquiry, and in number of persons. During the war the case of a Departmental Enquiry, also, we had to employ a very large we have laid down a summary but number of persons, and you are fairly satisfactory procedure accord aware'. Sir, that on account of con ing to which...... trols, on account of permits, on ac Mr. Speaker: Two minutes more. count of the prosecution of the war effort, a very large number of per Shri Datar...... We follow the prin sons had to be taken in. And there ciple of law that even the devil has are certain departments which it is to be given its due. Now, in some not open for us to say whether they cases, there may not be devils at all. are going to be permanent or whether • So, the principle is that we give them they are going to be temporary. A 3351 Demands for Grants 31 MARCH 1953 Demands for Grants 3352 number of departments even now taken in. They would also be absorb ^re there. Take for example, the Minis ed according as conditions permit. try of Rehabilitation. Now, that Ministry is doing very important Yesterday it was demanded that work, but a time has to come when temporary Government servants with the Ministry of Rehabilitation also tiiree years of service should be im •will have to be wound up because the mediately made permanent. Now, is work of rehabilitation cannot be it possible for any Government, much •carried on indefinitely. But it is not less for a Government like the Gov possible for us to know at this 5tage ernment of India with all its liabili ^s to when and whether^t wiU be re ties, to maKe permanent or to confirm moved. So far as controls are conr all these officers? We were also told cerned, there also the condition is that Government is spending money €fqually the same. It is quite likely and the taxatfon limit had been reachr- that economic controls in some form ed. These two ccmtentions are en might remain here, but for this pur tirely inconsistent. Government have pose. it is not open for Government to take the middle course, and the to understand the extent of the middle course is to give the advanta servants who have to be kept perma ges of either confirmation or a stage nent and the extent of servants who of semi-permanency to as large a class •can be made temporary. of temporary persons as possible, and you would be surprised, Sir. to know that so far as these quasi-perma- nancy certificates are concerned, they nave been granted to 20,000 persons The moment war came to an end. up to now. Every year, on a particu Government found that some retren lar day, we find out the persons who chment hc^(J to be carried out, and are entitled to these certificates, and •side by side, some confirmations had to them these certificates are Issued. also, to be made. So, Government immediately confirmed 50 per cent, The next point that was raised was of the temporary servants. That that these Government servants are number was found to be inadequate not allowed to have unions under the because, after all. a sense of being direction of outsiders. That again always temporary affects also the raises a fundamental questioii. I -efficiency of the service. Therefore, touched upon it just cursorily at the within two years that number was putset. but I would like to deal with increased to 80 per cent., so that you It here. I shall finish in five minutes. wiU find that 80 per cent, of those whose services were first requisition Mr. Speaker: Five minutes? He has ed on a temporary basis have already already exceeded by about seven been confirmed. So far as the others minutes. are concerned, on account of a num ber of facts which are entirely be right. I shall finish yond our control, it is not open to with this point. Government to confirm them. But Government are taking other steps, So far as such unions are concern and one of the other steps is, short ed, the policy of the Government is of actual confirmation, to give them that there are two classes of ser a status which can be called quasi vants. The first class is Ihe indus permanent status. It has got certain trial employees, for whom a larger advantages and one of the advantages measure of liberty can be given. But 1b that they would be entitled to be so far as the other class of persons made permanent according as posts are concerned, they are Government fall vacant. Assuming that the posts servants, who are directly dealing do not fall vacant, certain advantages with the administration as such, and are given to them. Gratuity is given toerefore a greater degree of loyalty t.0 them, and a number of other ad is necessary in their case; so, the vantages are given according to the Government wiU not aUow any pri rules that we made in '1949. Then, in vate persons, leaders or workers, to the case of certain classes, for exam become members of such associations, ple, Assistant Superintendents and imless the Government are aware Assistants there also this question that that particular person has had a arose, and ttierefore, as a part of the career or antecedant which is good. reorganization scheme. Government So far as these servants are concem- also had a number of officers confir ed, they are never keot under sur- med. Naturally, there were a very yeillance at all. All such contentions large number of temporary officers. that have been raised are entirely un Therefore, for them, a new class of founded, and therefore I would re establishment, known as regular tem- quest the House to take into account IK^rary establishment, was instituted, the fact that we have one of the besi and about 1.200 people have been public services that any country caB 3353 Demands for Grants 31 MARCH 1953 Demands for Grants 3354- tSliri Datar] be proud of, and that all these.high during the last ten or fifteen years,, officers also are gradually adjusting one who comes into the central ser themselves, to the new set-up. If they vice, does not want to go back, be do not, then aaturally they have to cause Delhi life nowadays has a great get out. But happily for us, they appeal, with the gaiety of the polish are also patriots, and they are also ed society, not only of the officers, but Indians. also of business people who are try ing to fish among these officers through, I would therefore request the their satellites. members of this House to co-operate with the Government in reaching the Shri Jaipal Singh: Not true. ideals which have been laid down in The Minister of Home Affairs and. the Five Year Plan, so far as the States (Dr. Katju): Sir. on a point of highest efficiency of the administra order. May I just intervene with, tion is concerned. your permission and say that my hon. Shri Sarangadhar Das . (Dhenkanal friend is making rather uncalled for —West Cuttack): After listening to remarks against certam officers? Pro this peroration from the other side, bably he ought to know that this^ which gives us an impression that Central Administrative Board deals, “All’s well with the world And God’s only with the officers with posts in in his heaven” ! It is with trepidation the Secretariat. Their recommenda that I have to tread the same ground. tions are placed before a Cabinet I am not going into the question of Committee for appointments. There permanent or temporary employees. fore the Board are not presiding over But I am more interested in the these appointments. I would rather Central Administrative Board that urge, therefore, that when he says that has been formed, consisting of six or they have got satellites who want to- seven Secretaries, with the Chairman push them on etc., it is not proper. . of the U.P.S.C. added to it, to act as Shri Sarangadhar Das: I notice that Chairman, and an additional member. every time we say something about This Board controls the central ser the officers—because tney are the peo vices. and selects the officers from the ple who are implementing all the States as well as the Centre, for the policies, and are ruling the country— Central Pool, the officers from which or whenever we say anything—I am= would be taken when necessary into not mentioning anybody’s name—im the higher administrative posts. mediately the hon. Home Minister goes, into a huff and says ...... In the first place, the six or seven Secretaries who form the Board are Dr. Katju: I say, ‘Attack me, but themselves applicants for the Pool, do not attack the officers who are not and they want to remain in the Pool. It is very strange that the raaminee here to defend themselves’. himself becomes the examiner. Those, who have to go into the Pool, and are Shri Sarangadhar Das: I am not desirous of going into the Pool— attacking the officers. But the truth otherwise they would revert to their must be told. Now what is the truth? own States— sit as examiners and take I am not taking the name of anybody,, themselves in. This situation has and I have never taken anj'body’s created a sort of vested interest of name at any time in this House, and I this coterie of I.C.S. officers, who used think that it is a bad thing to take to be called by us at one time as the- anybody’s name. I know well enough. “ steel frame” but I think they are I am a man of 66 and not a young now a worse “steel frame” than pre child to be lectured to by people who- viously, because each one of them has sre in charge of Home Ministry. (In a number of followers, whom they terruptions). • circulate from one Ministry to another as Deputy Secretary, Joint Secretary Mr. Speaker: Order, order. Let Or Secretary. there be no heat created over that The purpose for which the Central point. It is a simple point. He is All India Administrative Service was making a statement as to what he- meant was that during the British does not like, and I believe the hon. days, it was the custom that an officer Home Minister is merely enlightening who came from the State stayed here him on the facts. There the matter for about three or four years, got ends. Let us dis-passionately hear wider experience, and then went back what he has to say, and hear each to his own State, to contribute the other. knowledge and experience he had gained here, in the service of his own Dr. Katju: It is not for me to teach State. But lately or I should say. anybody. • 3355 Demands jor Grants 31 MARCH 1953 Demands for Grants 335^" Shri Sarangadhar Das: I know there When I intervened— I do not war." is a small Cabinet Committee that de tn take the time of the House— my cides finally, but I know from the ways hon. friend was saying, as I under -of the world that the subordinate stood him. that the people having Committee, who go into the details of come here do not want to leave Delhi it, make the decision, and it may be and these officers in the Central Es very rarely that the upper Committee tablishment JBoard have got their own — the superior Committee—with all satellites, they have got their own powers vested in them will make a followers and they bacK them ud and -change here or there. Otherwise, the they do not want to go back out of whole thing, as it has been done by Delhi. That was what I was object the lower Committee, stands. ing to. Mr. Speaker: I wanted a clarifica Mr. Speaker: The position is now tion on one point. I thought what the clear. There is a Central Pool and hon. the Home Minister wanted to the hon. Member’s allefiation. as I un clarify was that this Committee had derstand it, is that people who are to do only with the appointments in not liked by this Committee have no the Central Secretariat. Am I right chance of entering the Pool. there? Babn Ramnarayan Singh (Hazari- bagh West): Hear. hear. That is the Dr. Katju: They deal with only point. officers on the Secretariat posts. Shri Sarangadhar Das: Yes, that is Mr. Speaker: That means the Gov the point. ernment of India Central Secretariat. Dr. Katju: You are making the Dr. Katju: That is right, and then point for them. Sir they make recommendations which go laefore the...... Mr. Speaker: No. no. Mr. Speaker: The point of the bon. Shri Sarangadhar Das: I know Member. I thought, was that they there are several officers in the Secre decide as to who is to be taken from tariat who are circulating from one parts all over India...... Ministry to another. Some of them have seen three or four Ministries. Shri Saranji^adhar Das: Yes. So when I say that they do not wish Mr. Speaker: ...... to the Central to go back to their provinces, I am Service kept in the Pool. Am I right quite correct. I think I wiU also be in understanding the hon. Member’s supported in this contention by many point ? Members of this House. Shri Sarangadhar Das: Yes. Shri Frank Anthony (Nominated— Anglo-Indians): What will they do in Shri Jaipal Singh: I think what the the ‘dry’ provinces 7 lion. Member said was that the same person acted as examiner and .exami Shri Sarangadhar Das: I am not jea nee. I think that point has to be lous of the officers. I am not jealous clarified. of their salaries and I am not jea lous of the power they have. What Mr. Speaker: Let us clarify now as I am interested in is that the admi to the difference between the two. nistration should be of a very high The hon. Minister is referring to one order not only at the Centre but in thing and the hon. Member is referring the States. We had a system of send to quite another Pool. ing State officers to the Centre to get Dr. Katjn: He never referred to the wider experience and to be able to Pool. do more efficient work, for the higher body was supposed to have higher efficiency. And then the officers used Shri Sarangadhar Das: A Central to go back to the States and contri Pool in whichr officers from all the bute that wide knowledge and ex States are selected and kept there to perience for the good of their own be taken into the different Ministries States. That is not being done. Con,- as higher administrative officers when sequently, when we talk of toning necessary. I should like to know if up the, administration and in one olace that Pool exists. or another we have to put up with these handicaps, how is it possible Dr. Katjn: They are selected for that the administration could be toned the Pool and they are appointed. The up ? . proposals for their appointment come before the Appointments Com My suggestion is that this Central mittee of the Cabinet. Mere selection Board should not consist of these Sec means nothing. retaries. This work of selecting 3357 Demands for Grants 31 MARCH 1953 Demands for Grants 335& [Shri Sarangadhar Das] officers for the Pool should be in the Secretary with all the Under Secre hands of the Union Public Services taries, Deputy Secretaries, Assistant Commission, or else directly in the Secretaries and Personal Assistant to hands of a small Sub-Committee of the Secretary and then a Personal the Cabinet. In that case, there will Assistant to that Personal Assistant,, be no more frustration, as there is, if with all these people one man is in certain ranks in the Secretariat not able to handle the enlarged, here, because there are officers who amount of work then he should go. are superseded by junior officers who Other men should be brought in, and go up to the post of Deputy Secretary I believe in the services-^All India. or some higher post while the senior Services—there are men—individuals officers in the lower grades remain —who can do the work singly with. all. where they are. the staff under them. 4 P.M. There is another thing about the Central Board. As far as I under stand, reliably, they also interfere There is another thing about econo with the recommendations of a Minis my, also connected with the stoppage try. There was a case of a very high of this pomp and show. The Minis officer— the Head of a Department, ter has half a dozen chaprasis; a high. There were some allegations against officer has two or three: an Under him and the Minister recommended secretary txas one. Again, I say I am that he should be suspended. It is not jealous of the Minister having: said— I say it is said— subject to cor half a dozen or—if I am wrong may rection—that the Board tried to throw be two—whatever the number is. impediments in the way of this Minis Now, in British days, sHy 40 or oft try and then the matter was given years ago, there was no telephone; to a High Court Judge who found the te:egraph service was very little. that almost all the items of the alle Consequently, these chaprasis were gations were correct. I do not know required to take a chit from this man what has happened to the officer, but to that man, sometimes take mails. what I wish to point out here is that Mails in those days were not being the Board is so powerful—or at least sent by p q s^ b u t a man had to take some of the members o f that Board it from Sinila to Delhi or Simla tO' are so powerful— thiit they went to Calcutta, to act as couriers. But, with the extent of trying to defend that the telephone and the telegraph and officer, saying that it was very wrong all the modern convenience, it is not to bring such allegations agamst necessary to have this elaborate chap- h high officer. This ii also nnother rasi' system. proof that this Board has become a steel frame worse than in the British days. ^ c,-7nrTirr ? I wish to say a few words about economy. Several years ago the Es Shri Sarangadhar Das : timates Committee had made certain recommendations which I do not think ^ I have yet been carried out — that is. to enforce economy in the dillerent What I am concerned with is not Ministries. The Finance Ministry it the saving of the little money; after self has two Secretaries, each of them all, it is little money that will be on Rs. 4,000 a month. Now this saved. But, there are two things. Ministry was Jbeing managed by one One is that in a democracy this pomp Secretary during the British period. and show does not at all fit in. Just I do not see why it should be neces today when I came a little early, I sary to have two Secretaries for the saw about four or five chaprasis sit same administration. ting there in the steps in the portico waiting for the Minister’s car to come [M r . D e pu ty -S p eaker in the Chair] so that they may open the door for the Minister and take his portfolio’ If the Finance Ministry has two and the Minister can walk in with Secretaries, how can It go—with what out any encumbrance. In a demo face can it, go—to other Ministries cracy one should be ashamed of havr- and recommend that they should ing to rely on men to carry his little effect economy? There is also in the bundle; to carry a little file ir port Home Ministry itself a very high folio. If any Minister is going out officer as Special Secretary. There of this House, the jhaprasi is stand ■ are two Secretaries in the Home ing there and immediately the Minis Ministry and I think the Works, ter reaches the purdah, he takes the- Housing and Supply Ministry also has file from the Minister and the Minis two Secretaries. I lay that if one ter goes out unencumbered. This must 3359 Demands for Grants 31 MARCH 1953 Demands for Grants 33^0' stop. If the people who work in I need not read any further. The various capacities nre not producing jugement of the High Court.—^the* anything they should bs put in son^ Chief Justice and another Judge sitt where where they will produce some ing together is: thing. I do not know how many thousand chaprasis there are wasting Having, therefore, given our the nation’s time. It is not the little best consideration to the facts and money that matters but they are wast circumstances of the case, we are ing the nation’s time which should not prepared to say that-the issue be usefully utilised. And the self of the search warrants in these respect of these men must be re-es cases is illegal.” tablished. The Hign Court case is finished anc‘ four months have gone by and I should Then I come to the Central Police like to know from the -Minister himself establishment. what steps the Ministry is taking to pursue this matter. Babu Ramnarayan Singh: What about the army of Ministers? Pandit M. B. Bhargava (Ajmer South): We are discussing since yesterday Demands for Grants in res Shri Sarangadhar Das: The Central pect of the Ministry of Home Affairs Deputy Minister said that there were and the Ministry of States. No doubt so many cases that have been register this entire huge administrative ao- ed. We have no interest in the lum paratus of the Government of India ber of cases registered but we are in depends upon the efficiency, honesty, terested in the number of convictions. and integrity of the services: and the Saying that h'mdreds of cases have Home Ministry is the backbone of been registered does not' bring ^credit. the entire adminstrative machinery. Some time ago. when we discussed in Since yesterday, we have been hearing the Commerce Ministry, a case of lic unqualified denunciation of our servi ence for importation of two lakhs of ces. A section of the Opposition has cycles that was given by the Commerce characterised the services as w holly Ministry was referred to. Some days incompetent, inefficient and ^-orrupt. after I had spoken, the then Minister On the other hand we have heard who is now a Member of Parliament something in praise of the services. said that he v/as the man who had But one thing cannot be denied by started the enquiry into this case, not any critic. The past five or six years only through the Commerce Ministry have been very critical in the history but also through the Home Ministry. of our country and it ca^inot possibly Then there was a question as to what be questioned that if the services, on had happened. At that time, the lic- the whole, had not behaved loyally, encee who had taken the licence had honestly and .sincerely it would have brought a case in the High Court of been impossible for our national lea Orissa complaining that the search ders to tide over this great crisis. Con was illegal. Consequently, it was sequently. the wholesale denunci'stion sub judice. Now, I will read a por of our services is absolutely anjustin- tion from the judgement of the High ed and is nothing but a display of ex Court of Orissa dated 2nd Decemoer. treme irresponsibility. 1952. It says: One thing we must keep in mind. Most of the personnel of our services “ It is further stated therein that have come from the British days and in the Police Inspector’s applica there is absolutely no doubt that the tion to the Magistrate asking for bureaucratic arrogance and isolation permission for search warrant that ism which characterised the ICS ser the said Company, the Eastern vice have, to a certain extent, perco Mercatile Corporation Ltd., Cut lated to our services. What we tack. obtained licence No. 002626/ need is a revolutionary change in 51 CCI, Government of India to im their outlook towards the common port complete cycles to the tune of man. The brunt of the implementa 2 lakhs for internal consumption tion of the Five Year Plan will fall on of Orissa State. It is also stated the services, and before they can eff that it has been reliably learnt ectively translate that plan into ac that this licence which was meant tion. they must develop a spirit where for the internal consumption of by they may come into contact with Orissa State was black-marketed the mass of the population. Ihat at Calcutta and thus a fraud was element is now lacking. I do not committed on the Ministry of know what are the courses of subjects Commerce and that this ab?r taught in the I.A.S.. I.P.S. and Cen amounted to an offence under the tral Secretariat training schools, but I Import and Export Control Act- would suggest to the Home Minister 1947.” . that one of the essential courses of 3361 Dejnands for Grants 31 MARCH 1953 Demands for Grants 3362 [Pandit M. B. Bhargava] training is social science. Our offi I would like to know what has been cers must have that training in the done in this respect. field before they join the seFvice. This Then another very important re is essential in the changed circumst commendation of the Estimates Com ances of the country. mittee was about officers drawing above Rs. 300Q. The Pay Commission Then, it cannot be denied that there had recommended that the highest sa is scope for much economy. Economy lary payable to an officer should be is the essential need of the hour. How Rg. 3U00. Government accepted that far has the reorganising wing of the recommendation. The suggestion of Home Ministry succeeded in toning the Estimates Committee was that in .up efficiency and effecting economy? fluence should be brought to bear upon In this connection, I would draw your those officers who draw over Rs. :.000 attention to the Estimates Committee and they should be induced to surren : report for 1950-51. While scrutinis der a portion voluntarily. I would ing the Ministry of Commerce and In like to know what has been done in dustry, the Committee made certain this respect. recommendations of a general ciiarac- ter which applied not only to the Ministry of Commerce and Industry We read in the papers that the but to the entire services. These re Punjab Government has laid down a commendations were contained in Re rule that officers drawing above Rs. port No. 2, signed by the distinguish 750 should not claim dearness or con ed members of the Committee on 9th veyance allowance. If it could be February, 1951. and covered a very done in Punjab, why could not the wide field. The Committee suggest same thing be done here? It cannot ed that certain very remunerative sup be denied that the disparity botv>^een ervisory posts like Joint Secretary, the official at the lowest ring of the Additional Secretary, Deputy Director- ladder and the official at the lop is a General, Under Secretary etc. were, in big one. The Government is for re the view of the Committee, absolutely ducing that disparity, and every year redundant. In the words of the Com the Finance Minister in his Budget mittee, “ effective and urgent action” speech says that the drive and the was to be taken to scrutinise these search for economy are continuing. posts and wind them up, and also stop This ever-continuing search, as far as their future creation. I would like I know has not yielded any results, to know whether the Home Minister and perhaps it never will. But eco has had the leisure to look at those re nomy, however small it may be, has commendations. its own psychological effect, and apart from its money value, it is bound to create a good sense for the hunesty Also, what is the constitutional posi- and sincerity of the Government in ■ tion regarding the Estimates Commit wanting to reduce whatever expendi tee recommendations? As far . as I ture it can possibly redujce. know, it is a select committee of the House and ordinarily its recommenda- Another recommendation of the - tions must be binding on the Govern Estimates Committee was in regard to ment. If, for certain reasons, Gov- the array of Assistants. Among emment are not in a position to ac the ministerial staff, the number of cept them, then Government must Assistants was only about 500 in 1939, place their explanation before the but in 1951 it was nearly five times . House together with the reasons for that number. Therefore. the Esti non-acceptance. mates Committee suggested— and they gave very cogent and strong argu Similarly, in respect of tenure of ments— that much of the work clone service, the Estimates Committee re by Assistants might be entrusted to commended the introduction of the routine or clerical grade people. The practice which had been previously in practice in 1938 was that there were vogue namely, a regular interchange three grades of ministerial stafl; grr.de of superior officers from the Centre to three clerks; grade two clerks &nd ' the States and vice versa. That was Assistants. The Estimates Commit a very healthy practice, and in the tee recommended that grade two Estimates Committee’s view, the pre clerks should be reintroduced and sent practice whereby officers are kept those Assistants whose work is more at the Centre for all times created a or less of a routine or clerical nature rigidity and fixity of mentality which should be downgraded and brought to was not desirable. In the interests the rank of grade two clerks. Ihis o f diffusion of ideas, ideologies and would effect economy and also im policies as between the Centre and the prove efficiency. r States, the Committee recommended Another suggestion of the Estima the adoption of the previous practice. tes Committee related to the method 3363 Bemands 'Grants MAKCH 1B53 Demands for Grants 33^4 o t recruitmeriL Pnior to ilhe that they must be forthwith merged Assistants were jrecruited through with the contiguous area. 1 would <;ompetitive examination. That pra ■fike to T em ind the 'House that it w a s ctice was given yp during the war. alter considerable discussion that the It is still in vogue «and all Assistants ;previous Parliament in November, -are recruited, not .through c o m p e ti 1951 passed the Part C States Bill, as tive examination but from the open it considered it not possible and expe market. There is much room for. dient under the existing circumstances and many complaints aibout, nepotism to merge the States which have and favouritism. Therefore, the E s got a history behind them fortliwith timates Conunittee suggested the ad the contiguous area. The experi option of the previous -«y.£tem of re ment of responsible Government has cruitment of AssistaiSts through com fceen in existence in these States only, petitive examination. I would like for a very small period of eleven to know what nas been dyne in this months. It is too premature to give Tespect. any verdict as to the advisability of the experiment or otherwise. My sub Then the Committee reiffirred to the mission is that the question that was number of peons, vwhom "they callcd only very recently decided should not an “ army of peons” . They said that fee reopened so lightly. Even, if it they had examined the Commerce and is to be reopened you cannot ignore Industry Ministry and their view was the views of the people of those areas that the number of peons was far as also of the Legislatures which have above requirements. They suggest been elected on adult franchise. ed the introduction of the messenger Mr. Deputy>Speaker: The hon. IVLem- service system and reduction oi this ber must conclude now. I find several army of peons. I would like to hon. Members are anxious to speak know whether anything ha? been done and if each hon. Member were to take by Government in this respect. ^ three or four minutes more, some of them v/ill not get a chance. Then there -was also a question of economy in respect oT use '©f telepho Pandit M. B. Bhargava: The third nes. It was suggested by the Esti point to which I would respectfully mates Committee that a telephone at draw the attention of the hon. the home is not necessary in the case of Home Minister is that tne question of all those officers who have got them Abu is one of life and death for Ba- now. The Committee said that the jasthan. Geographically. culturally, The second point that has emerged in the debate is in respect of Part C States. It was conte?ted and sub- imitted by some of my hon. friends ^ ^ that these States need not be allowed to exist as they sire existing today and 30 PSD 3365 Demands for Grants 31 MARCH 1953. D)emaiids fo r Grants 3366 [«ft 4 m f % m x ^ ?TT% 'dH+' TT ^ TRT ^ ^ ?T'T^ ^r W^>Tt% ^ =5ft3T t, ^ ^ f 1. ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ T T ^ t , ^ n q: ?fk ?rf^r TT =^^T TT^r ^ ^nrr i ^ ^ w| ^ 1 ^^rf ^^rcifr, trjq? ' ^ t» ^ ^ ?ftT ^ T f m fk ^r WT, w ^ ^ Tm t ^ TT^T ^ ^ f TfTfar TTsr^ tfstt w ^ t t t , ^ ^^r-T ^ ^ ’T^rf ?rk ^5T % 3rrcT # i A' »f‘ t Trq- ^ fsT'T^ ^ r r «TT^ ^ ^ ^'T f , ’Tr ^t' ^ t» ^ t ^ ^ f^Tfr«ror t ^ ^ ?rnT# i iFT ^ ^ ^ ^ t 5t‘ a ?r^ ^r?r^ ^TRTT ^ cR f ^ ?PT% A A' Tff qr ^ sj-fn: ^ ^ ^TRH ^>i4 ^ r f ^ ?it?: ^r^r^T. Hid* 336? Demands for Grants 31 MARCH 1953 Demands for Grants 3368 ^ W f t H STTf ^ ?rr3f MiP+^M MTi^t s r w | ^ ^ 5TTT ^ ^r^TFT 'TR^ f^rrfl- ^ # TT^ ^ vd6 iAii I ^ nidi hmi ^ ^TRfW ^ ^ fRTTt jfr^TRT ^ TR^ ^J3T^ rT W ? ^ w r ^ m f?ff ^ W , ^'»ftT^^^+<^Hi I ’Tt «ft, ^*iiO ^Niv fm - 5FT T ^ ?At ^ ^RT I ^ TT^ ^3^ fT«r ^ # [Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava in the Chair'l *bi*i<4i«i ^ ^ ^ «Tnr ^TSTR ?TRR ?fh: ^f^a' ^ =^rf|q f^ ' Mi^.TK ^ H'i\cH\ •T^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ? fk 5 ? ^ |rr ^tFT qpc f?rr ^ ^ ^ ^TRfjT-iff ^ ^ ?rm ^ =^rf^ i ^ ^ w I ^ ^ liTr^ ^ ^ ?Tjf ^F>TJT ^ ^ ^ «ft, ^ m s «rr fsr^r # ?rrPrar^ ^ ^ «ft ^ ^ ?rr ^*^<11 ^ ^ ?rr ^tt ^ dl+n % if^ 5TRT ^ I «rr I ?TPT srfiT# , ?T ^ ?rrr ^ ir ^iTrft t, ^ ^ ^ m ^ #3 ^ d^*Mn I ^ I ?THt ^ ^ I ?nTT^^w 5nw ^ ^ ^TT^T# ^ ^ ?rrt ^ f^TTRT ^ ^ ^ ^RT ^ ?T3T^ =^rf^, ?T^ =^rrf^ i ?nt I ^ t^ ^ TT5rr ^ H it f , ^*flT # ^ ^ f f dlO^ ^ f ^ ^TR^ # W i, I ^TTT ^R ^ ^ ^5X *iitti<, ^ ’T T^ t % %f5IT ^ ^ ^TTT iT9nT^ t I ^ ^ ^ ^ l*nrr ^^ftt ^?jfert ^ 1^ ^rnx ^ ^r 3369 Demands for Grants 31 MARCH 1953 Demands jor Grants 3370 T ft ] ^ TO t‘ wff ^ m f+ w i^ ^ ^ I ^ f% ^ fr^ft ^Md4)^4^ ^ f W R ^ ^ I ^ f% ^TfT ^ 5RrnM ^ ^ ^ ^ H ^ ^ m n ^I'cl'Wd- # ^ ^ «rr ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ f T ^ ^ 3tt^ ^ ^ ^ =5nf^ t» t ^ ^ I ^ artcT^ ^ ^ ^q-'r ^ ^ 9[RT fWgRT ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ i^HTT I ^jWf ^ ^TH <1^ ^iirr ^ o^ld ^ I ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ?T ^TSRTT I ^ ^MFT ^ ^ | =)ia ^ ^ I TT #’ ^Tf3f^ ^ «ftft ■^i^ai % i% w Ph^hI^ ^ ^ ^ ^3TPT ^ ^ % ^ ^rPT ^ ^ ^ ^IM+^ ^rSTT ^ I ^ I ^ ^ ^*HK f^TTT^ ^ ^ri’l iHMd t IV ^ ^ SFT^ ^ ^ ^ ^ t ^ ^MfeiM + fftr ^^m^TRmr 1 f t ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ rf^ ^ <^I«1 f^c^H ^Md ^ I ?T ^3n|t r ^rnr ^ ^ ^ r % ift ^ ^ ^ ^ I ^ fr o ^ #5rrf?:ft MY i r<^nr^ ^ ^ Tsrr^ ^ fqf^r^ ^ fsr^ # =;o |- I ^ ^JTR i T R f ^ ^ #3rrfk^ «ft, 'T ^ fbp^ ^ ^ ^ fwM ^rn>T ftr^ I TO q-^ f^r ^ 7^ ^♦i^cil ^ ift # ^<5 ^ 2pT ^ ?rflf w t» ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ t ^ ’I W ^ % l^qfe ^ ^ ^ TO-^FtW fkf^T^ TT f w ^ ^ ^ ^nr^ ^ f^FTT t I W I ^ Pirf^T^ ^ f ^ T W I 3371 Demands for Grants 31 MARCH 1953 Demands for Grants 3372 ^TTrft ^ ^ ^ ^jtf ^ I | ^ FTV^ ^ ^TRT fK^ ^TFnrr i sft^ ^ I »f' ?i Rt ^ f f ^ f ^ ^ ^ ^ ?TT*T ?rnT ^ vTTrf TRT »T^ ?rr ^STpft^ I ^^TR” %?ft'*T r*if^f^< f , %i2Tft, ^ IV f*T5rf ^ ^ fV ^ %^HTt, ^ 4 d T ^RTW ^ «T»lf ^ ^ | i ^ hIPh^I’ ^T ^fW ^ 3T^ ^?>T^ ^ ^r % f^ 1f ^ TT^fT ira’^ r f f i ^ ^ I ^ WiT^ f % \ ^ ^ ’T f^r^r^r f ^ 5(ft ^vxvjia «^> ^ T f ^rrrr i wtt. f e n w r I I ^fr»ff # ^ y r ^ n w I t t % €\€t^ % , i 3373 Demands for Grants 31 MARCH 1953 Demands ior Grants 3374 ^ ^ TT TT ^'T i^JT. t , ?TiR m ^ ^ !TiT 5f7t ^ tf)PT^ fiTw ^ ^ ^ fr^|t ^STTcft ^ ^^'t I >T^TPT 9-#nr I f e f t ^ ^ ^r*TT ^FTTRft ^ “MH ^ I ?T m I f ?T 5T^ Shri N. Sreekantan Nair; Our col leagues on either side of the Jlouse have already dealt at-length >viih the «f ^ q - %ftx workings of the Ministry of St,:.teg in general and the grievances ol my ^ix% Ri State in particular. I would i>ke to ^ ^IM ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ raise only some of the points that were left out. f^^r I ^r ?rrf%T ^ ^ ^ Firstly I would like to point out f% ^ f^qr ^ <^i ^ d®h^*^*T emphatically that this poor land lias not yet dispensed with the system of ^ I A' ^iTT> ^ ^ o ^PT Rajpramukhs and continues to pay a sum of Rs. 4.40,80,000 as privy purse # \ ^ every year. We have to put an end to this anachronism and the sooner it ffF^rr ?T^rrr^jfT ?f ^ rrro is done the better. %qT f^aft^JT ^ tr^ ^TFT I Another matter of great importance which I would like to ix>int out to this ^ ^ ^ fe r r i House is about the great injustice Tf>wf ^ 55TT % f^RTW T T ^ ^ shown to the ex-State employees be fore and after they were integrated in m TpfV q r ^ ^ I ^ sfTRT^T- the federal services. The categorisa tion has been made on the basis of 5T *ti|<^< ^ f^HTT ’h'\< ^ *i'J|'^^T the salaries they were drawing under the State Governments. As the ytate ^ ^ ^ ^d ^ *jm % Him \ ^ Government was paying very low sal aries, naturally these people were plac ^ ^ ^ ^ftr +i<«iHr ed at the lowest rung of the ladder. In the Postal and Telegraphs Depart ment thousands of employees of the State with 20 and 25 years of service were given a start on Rs. 60 with the f W I I HTf^T % f ^ T ^ ^ dr 2?^ result that all clerks, all over India, who were recruited upto 1950 are se ^ ^?flT 4kii-H ^ nior to these people. The cases of other Government departments are ^ ^ ^ 1 1 also not different. So 1 would re quest the hon. Minister of this House to consider a practical way out. Tra- ^ A f vancore-Cochin State may be consi dered as a separate zone or as a se W hR % iTT^ I parate units and promotions within that unit may be given to the oflicers ^ Ti^ ^ W ^ in that unit itself. That I feel is the only way out of this situation t r ^ ^ I I ^ ^ Another question which is agitating ^ ^ ^ TK a section of the people of the State and also of the oflicers is the integra tion of services between Travancore \ o ^TT^ ^ ^ f^l)?: "jft *iH< t%V9T and Cochin State employees. I.Ty old friend Mr. lyyunni has been very iRTiTT W I I ^ W ^ ^ ^ much agitated over this issue and has gone to the extent of advocating an ^ ^ % ^iay is that the poor blem that faces the country, especial staff of the lower rung have been ly my State. We are really anxious Ignored in both States. The poor for an Aikya Kerala. This is the' employees of ?both States are getting proper time for forming the Kerala such a low salary that it woiild be a province. disgrace to claim them to be servants sunder the Indian 'Union. Now. I come to the working of the Home Ministry. I find that under Another matter 'which I would like Sub-head A and C of Demand No. 52, lo bring to the notice of the House is there are two schemes, one for Train that the dearness allowance of pen ing of Central Secretariat officers lq sioners in Cochin is higher than that Part A States and, the second for an Travancore. The Pensioners in Training of Indian Administrative Ser Travancore have been agitating and vice Probationers. These cost 1,25,000 "tbe Travancorc-Cochin 'Government and 4,11,600 respectively. Under Sub initially gave them some hope. But head D. there is a Secretariat Training now they have reffused to implement >school» claiming 1,14,000. I do not it on the pie* mf. hick of finance. These understand why these different in poor pensioners and the lower grade stitutions should be set up for s^lied -employees should get some h^lp -from studies, unless it be an application of the Government and T do not care Apartheid in bureaucracy. I also find ■what happens to the higher T^rvices that the revised estimates of 1952-53 in either Travancone lor Goehin. ’have not been taken into considera tion when the estimates for 1953-54 As to corrufrtion or other charges were prepared. In Demand No. .53, ^ai^inst the Ministry, I concur fully the allotment for » 3 officers for 19.'i3- "With my .triend Mr. lyyunni. I also -54 is Rs. 1,84,000. I find that for-tho [Shri N. Sreekantan Nairl members af staff whom we are utilis the C'ongre^ in: tha past as it is today^ ing in addition, this year, we are In the past you fanned the flames of spending only Rs. 19,000 less than Miislinr (iommunalism. and attempted! what is demanded for next ycsrr. As to use it a» a lever for the nationa^ lar as Demand No. 54 is concerned, steuggle.. Whan, things: went out of that is Delhi, out of the total of their control, they turned to Hindu, 1.51.00,000. Rs. 1.45.00.000. is taken up. communalism and attempted to pia- by the Police. Together with De cate it That isr whx Dr. Syama mand No. 55, the total amount spenst Prasad Mookeriee entered the Cen on Police comes to Rs. 2,14.00.0001, It tral CongresB Cabinet,. Now, when IS not the expenditure on Police, but he has gone out, when hp has found it is the police mentality of the ad that the time is favourable to fan the ministration about which I am worri flame of communalism, and play the ed Now, the Congress Raj is a Police first fiddle and not the second fiddle* State. The Damocles sword hangs to anybody else, naturally you feel over the Press and even posters are that the country is in danger. You are going to be penalised. not going to tackle the problem eflec- lively. What is the definite approach On page three of the Summary of that you have for this: question? Let the report, the Government is express us go to the toot of the question. I ing its glee over the working of the say,, ‘something is wrong in the State Preventive Detention (Second Amend of Denmark’. There is something' ment) Act, 1952. I know it is not wrong in the administration of Kash possible and there is no meaning in mir. Otherwise, certainly, the move requesting this House or the Govern ment would not have assumed such ment to rescind that Act. But, I ap mass proportions. Let us send some peal that there may be some unifor non-communal representatives from mity, some kind of elementary justice this House to study the question at in the working of this Act in the first hand. Then, let us go to the various States. I come from Travan- people and tell them, there have been, core Cochin State. I know what the mistakes, we will rectify them. Let conditions prevailing there are. The us take the people into confidence, ivre situation in Mysore, Hyderabad a»d you prepared for that?. No, it is toa Bombay are also no better. The much for you. 1 know you are not. position of the convicts and prisoners prepared to take the people into your m m.y State is much worse. I would confidence. You fea® the leftist par appeal to the Minister and *0 this ties more than you fear the commu House that instead of running after nalists. You are going to hand‘ over reckless reports and making indefinite the fate of 360 millioii people to these promises, some simple reforms may seif-same communalists tomorrow be introduced. We have to put ati rather than turn and seek the help of end to the system of awarding stripes the leftist forces m this country. as punishment. We should also allow the prisoners at least the facility of Another important point that I would smoking bidi and using tobacoo. For like to stress is this. I am referring a bit of tobacco, for a bidi prisoners to the speech of the hon. Home Minis of both sexes in jails all over India ter when the question of arrests in are tempted to commit all sorts of un Delhi was taken up in this House. Re natural offences, of which we should peated references to the findings (»f the be ashamed. At least .give them this Supreme Court set up a very bad pre facility so that our conception of redent. The Home Minister was hygiene and our conception of mora rubbing on the wrong side. It seem^ lity may be bettered. ed to be in the Mark Antonian refrain m Shakespeare. “ And yet. Brutus is Regarding the communalistic dis an honourable man.” In the same turbances in Kashmir, already the strain, the Home Minister repeated ad hon. Member Annie Mascarene has nauseam. “There opinion is law.” That referred to that. I feel that we ought F, think casts aspersions on the deci to go to the root of the question. I sions taken by the Supreme Court. I do not agree certainly with the policy also want to say that the Judges of of repression that is going on. By the Supreme Court should not be lur this repression you are only going 10 ed or misled and we should not throw worsen the conditions which you are temptations in the path of the fighting to avoid. By this repression, Supreme Court Judges by offering the you are enhancing the prestige of retired Judges' some lucrative posts, these people, the sections which are like that of a Governor. anti-national, and are really anti-de mocratic. You are strengthening the hands of the communalists. Unfor I have many n\ore things to say. tunately, that has been the policy of But. as my time is up, I have to close. 3379 Demands for Grants 31 MARCH 1953 Demands for Grants 3380 c TTOT ^ t afk t ^r, ^ ^ % ^ ^ ^ 5TJT ^3pft ^ ^ 3T?r^ t I ^ 3T^JR f3TT t ^ ^ slY?‘ T’’ ^rrft ^t*T ^ ^1 ^ »TT ^ ^ ^ ^ A' ^<+tO ^^rf^pff arr^fi' ^ =R tr^ irf^ ^ % ^ ^ TfT «rr ^ ^ ir?T |:^ 5^«TT fir ^*r ^ ^ ?f|f' prr <1 <» % #5^ I fir lit f SF STTT^ # ^?rr TK an'^TT^RKT ^ 3pV ^ 3 ^ 3TTT ^ qR arr^- »T^yr% t afhr #?ft *T*T4 T?: 5n^ ^rr^T ^ 3 f ^ ^3fH% |3fh: ?TR% 3nft =^5T f^^T ^ I fm? q-^ ^ - 3n^ f f ^ %r^\f^ % f k f ^ z it?! % 3fr--r TT^ arr^qr ^ r.# ^m r^an^l, (m al «rr % f^rf>r ^ w administration) % wm^ 3TT?r ^ 1 f < ^ ^ ^<+i< ^ i% ' ^ f% ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ « ^ 3 ^ ^ ^ f i ^ % 3T-T^ ^$1 I ^ I 31^ 3TT^fr ^ %TJ ^ ^ # ^IW?TT t f s r ^ JT ^ ^q- 3f TTT czrf^tT ^ f r ^ ^ ^rar, ^ n r I', ?T =RT^^ ^ f 3?^T ?T ^ ^ f I A ^ % w r y f w m, 3f^r % ifr ^ ^TTrf ^ 1 ^ ^ ’FTT 3t\t s q f^ 3p :^ t ^#'TT f^r ^r| =crrr^T ? v q r % ^ (specific) T ^ 3n^ cTrq^T^ ITT ^ ^'FT ^ 'd'l+l fn^lTq ^ 3n% ^^iT I ^3^T% ^nr ^ 3T^^ FfT^ 3ft-^ 3 ^ ^TTTfhr ^ 3^ 3TfdT- w # 3rrr ^ +iT<^r % ?TT'4 ^ . ^cTT5) j% % ^5?H’P ' ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ WPl ^ST 3rrf%^1- Ttfjf^ 'T f^ ^ 31^^ ^i^TT «TT ^ 'p- 2T^ qr ij^ t f'T #f5rq1 ^ 4% ^TTt ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ fr I ^ ^ ^ m, ^ ^ %%^ 3nr f^¥T*T ^?^T% ' -%^ ^3T^ STPTT ^TFT^ ^ ^ Trf% 3flTTf^ :3jT ^ ^ % 3T?^ ^ 3fk ^ ^r ^ T^% T5^' fHw ?: ^ qr 3nr*n: ^ . f ^ T ^n^T^T 5Tp f^Tfr srrsRWTT ^ 5TO ^r ^ | artr ^ ^ ^TT^rn?®r % 3TT# 3rk - jdTi r ^pT ^ ^ W r, WTcT 3T5^ ^ 3 ^ ^r?7T 'TT 31^ tuf^l ^Tt % ^T 5PT^ ^ I ^ ^ ^T ^3^ ^ % ^nrr ZT^ ^ i% ^ % + 16H ' ^RT t 3 ^ ^ftr ^ *nTT ’PTT t % ^ 'Tfr^iT’T 3j^ ^ ^ % 3 P ^ ^ ^nf^rT afk^ x 3rrar - ^ r^^l 3tIt +'|R|?T ^ Sltr I ^3^ 5TTO T¥ ^ % 3rk 3 m t ^ 5rq?^ % ^ ^ 3 i^ ? T ^ j^ 3 (k ^j?Rf ^r?:# % ^ stM«rc:< f^RH ^ «n tt^ w 5F^ sfh: ^ 5TOT ^ w ^ ^ 3 ^ %^nr ^*ii^ r it f^ ^ ^ aftT ^ ^ ^T K ^ 3TT^, ^3^ 3T^ ^ % ^HiitsT ^T^Tf^ =^ ^ ^ % - STFTT *RT ^ ^HTt ^ ^ 5R% ^ f^RW # ^ ^ rn^ ■^^T% ^ >d*i«i^ 9T^t ri ^ ’d»in>\ ^ ^'»T»T ^ 3TV^ i(TT '-% ^ ^sctJ^ *1^ "hXri 3rtr ^ ^ ^ if>5W 35f W^ I 33«3 Demands for Grants 31 MARCH 1953 Demands for Grants 3384 p r r ^ 3ftT A 3Trm ^ 5t^ ^IT trifr A ^q-«f ^sff^q- € j 3TFT ^•'^‘T ^r.t^ arrm ?r? ^ ir ^ T T q-qr ^ t I r^yq; A 3rrr?r 3T# ^^TT f 2TT'T ^3fr# ^ ^ % 3T?^ Tni3r^m ^ «1 Id 't*^, ^iT 'JT ^ H ’f ^ ’TTTT^r ^ t I ^ ^ ^ ^ t ^ ^ W ^"T ^ ^TvT 3ik ^ «r ^ far^ ^ 3T^ t % ^qr> # If TifrsrrT ^r ?tpt ?r i ^ I ir^T ^^TT % ^'r A ^ ^ % 3T^=^ ^ ^ # ^ T R T ^TT^ T|€ ^O ■gw ^ ^PTT ^ rq t-^ an?: ^?t ^ o ^ qw ^ ^ ^ ^ TTsfr iT^Rnrraff (merge) ^ =^rf^ 3fk ^ 2T^ 5r«rT ^ ^ ^ % ^ ^ ^r^FTif ^ w I 5 T|% >rt qr^JT Tffft f ^ TTsnaff «f|rr5rfh;r^ % ^nTTRTt TT ^f^STT'T |i 'Rf ^)Tvt 4) q jt ^ ^ i r f tNY ^tr t^t ^T^pf ■ ^ f^ ’TcTTsft ^ ^ f^ZTRT^ % ftrqr t ^ ''TT mi«!»< T^ 3 ^ l^fT ^FT ^ ■% ^ 3 ^ ^^ft- d'^4r ^ f% ^HKi ^>fr % ^T>c^H¥H' ^ TTSfSr^J^ ^ pTT t • ^ vdHefTl ^?T?f ^ f^^rr I 3T5^ ^ ^ t ^ ^ ^ ^1% gxr ^ ^ ^ f% ^TPTT ^ t 3 ^ ^ ^ ^ ^«f^f '3iiH ftr^ ^R*T ^ ^ 1 1 T% T % aniT "^TFT^r ^ STRT ^ ^ f% 3TT^ ^ ^nrr ^ ^ w^m % i?f ^ '^% ^r*rr^ ^ f^nrW ^nr ^nrrsr J^o ifto in ^ o ift ^ iRTf ^ ^r)«i«i ^ sftr f^ryw ^ ^ ^ H«ii ^ ^ '^TMlO Mr. Chainnan: There are very many hon. Members who anxious to speak, and therefore. I am a bit strict. I ^ 1 t 3 R ^^TTfrTT i ^ would request the hon. Member to bring his remarks to a close. ^f?T ^ I ^W^ 3TTT ^ »T5ir ^ ^ ^ 3T^ XTOT : 3RT1 ^ 3T«r# arh; ^ ^ ?TRr 3f^3TKf^^I s r n r f ^ ^ t ^ W «TRT ^ 1^ * *TRr ^ WRH ^ ^ ^«rdl ^ 1 ^ ^ ^ 1*1 ^ ^ % ^«T ^ 4»^*ll ^ ^ ^ ^ fW «TT, 3R ^3^ fTR ^1 < *M<4 ^ ^5n?TT t ^ ^ ^ Dr. Lanka Sundaram (Visakhapat- ^ ITR T rilf«t> ^ ^ nam); I have, despite illness, decid ed to intervene in this debate, as a re 4 t ^ member of the committee of action of possible reasons behind this change ox the Hyderabad State Congress, long, front but I am here to say without long before the police action. Here 1 any fear of contradiction, that noth have noted down how the freelancing ing can hope to stop the movement for effect is not on me. but on the opp«> the dismemberment of the Hyderabad site side. I know my hon. friend State. It is time they understood the Swami Ramananda Tirtha is very fond position. In view of the fact that the of a particular colour, saffron, but his Andhra State is coming into being any saffron assumes the multicoloured moment, the repercussions of the crea phase of a rainbow. When it is expos tion of the new Andhra State will be ed to the glare of positional politics. felt immediately in Hyderabad, and I -Before the i>olice action. Swamiji^ and would therefore urge that the disinte some of his colleagues, along with gration should take place without pas some of us who did not belong to the sion or prejudice and without any State, but who were anxious to has commotion, because I am most anxi ten the freedom movement in that ous that this country’s administrative State, and incidentally also the free machinery, and the administrative sys dom movement iti this country, were tem must be completely reorganised ■completely and irrevocably committed without the least possible friction or to the disintegration of the Hydera irritation to anybody. bad State as well as the deoosition of the Nizam. In fact, my hon. friend Having said this, I would like to presided over the Hizamabad session turn my attention to the Home Minis 'Of the State Congress in 1950... try and its activities described in the annual report placed before us. I Swjimi Ramananda Tirtha (Gulber- was listening to the progress of the ga): I did not preside over that. debate yesterday, I almost felt that my hon. friend the Home Minister was Dr. Lanka Sundaram: You were blushing almost like a bride, really, at the mainspring, as the president of the uncalled for encomiums v/hich the Hyderabad State Congress. With were sought to be paid to him. as re the blare of trumoets. this very same gards the administration of the Home idea of the disintegration of the State, Ministry. In fact, some Membr!rs and the deposition of the Nizam was likened it to Ram Rajya and so on. presented to the public as a ^atform But I may present to him a quotation ‘Of action which could not be delayed from one of the papers in the coun any further. Actually, recently after try, a friend of the Congiess. the the Nanalnagar session of the All Hindu of Madras, dated the 28th inst., India Congress; my hon. friend Swami tant with reference to the debate which Ramananda Tirtha retired to Bombay took place the other day, on the 2.^th for a few days, from where he issued of this month, in this House. This is a statement favouring the deposition what it says: of the Rajpramukh and the disintegra tion of the State. But here I find “ In so far these findings of the that he has been obliged to change his Supreme Court constitute a reflec tune. I regret to say, but I do say, tion on the general conduct of per in all fairness to niy hon. friend Swami sons possessed of powers over the Ramananda Tirtha that he is now try liberties of the citizen, it is a mat ing to ride three horses at a time, not ter which should be the concern of one— (i) his own State Congress (ii> Parliament, may be, in a different the Ministry in his own State; and form from that in which it comes (iii) the States Ministry of the Gov up before the judiciary ...... Now. ernment of India here. Otherwise I having regard to the clear finding would not have expected from him Ihe of the Supreme Court about the statement he made yesterday wherein illegality of the detention and cer he said that he believes in counsellors tain other serious irregularitie.s of and so he wants counsellors for Part procedure noted by their Lord B States. I would not pursue any ships. one would have thought iurther my personal parley, if any—I that the Government would have am sure, I have none on my side—with taken the opportunity to express my hon. friend Swami Ramananda their regret for, the conduct of the Tirtha. officers concerned, and to give an assurance of its non-recurrence.” Coming to the basic points, 1 must As regards the attitude taken ud say that something has been done at by the hon. Minister, the paper adds: the highest level, both in Delhi and in Hyderabad, to frustrate the move “ It would be disastrous (but not ments for the dismemberment of the - surprising) even if a few execu Hyderabad State and the deposition of tive officers interpreted...... some of the Rajpramukh. I regret to say this, his own statements in the Hou.*??*. but I have to say it in this connec as being tantamount to a condona tion. I do not wish to go into the tion of official breaches of the 3389 Demands for Grants 31 MARCH 1953 Demands for Grants 339®' [Dr. Lanka Sundaram] Constitution relating to Funda the review of the Preventive Detention- mental Rights of the individual.” Act comes up btfore the House very- soon. After all, what did the Supreme Court say? Unfortunately, ihe most I now want to address myself for a important portion of their judgment few seconds to the problems of the* was not mentioned by any of my Home Ministry. I would lilfe, witfr colleagues, and so I would like to your permission Sir. to direct the ct- Quote from the judgement of the Sup tention of the House to the responsi reme Court: bility of the Home Ministry in regard to their employment polices, and their" policies with regard to the ri;;hts o f “This Court has often reiterated employees, not only of the Central' before that those who feel cailed Government and quasi-Central-Govern- upon to deprive other persons of ment employees, but by implication,, their personal liberty, in the dis employees all over the country. The- charge of what they conceive to Government of India today is per- ^ be their duty, must strictly and haps—why ‘oerhaps’—actually—the* scrupulously observe the forms biggest employer. Anything between and rules of law. That has not 25 and 30 lakhs of people are involv been done in this case. The peti ed— either in direct emplojTnent or in tioners now before us are there fore...... ” quasi-employment, and so on and so- forth. The country looks up to ll\e ^ Dr. Katju: Was this addressed to the Home Ministry for the laying down' magistrate? and the carrying out of rules and re gulations intended for the protection- Dr. Lanka Sundaram: The magis of the rights of these workers. I c»m trate is under your control, and it not going to speak about trade union is your responsibility, as far as this ism today, but I am referring to a# House is concerned matter of very vital importance. Since the past few days I have been rather Dr. Katju: I am not responsible worried about the manner in which for the magistrate, in his judicial ca the ‘leiw and order’ situation, as pacity. claimed normally by my hon, friend, Dr. I ^ k a Sundaram: My hon. Dr. Katju, has arisen out of the dis friend has a very easy way of dealing satisfaction and irritation inherent im with problems of this fundamental the lack of a consistent and fair-mmd- character. The point I am trying to ed policy towards employees m gene make is this, that there must be a ral. Everywhere today in this -coun sense of security in the mind of the try there is retrenchment under the individual, that the law will be pro Dlea of rationalisation—jute, tea. coal perly interpreted, and will be on his fields and so on and so forth. Why, side and not against him. today at this very moment at Visha**- khapatnam 813 people have been dis Mr. Chairman: May I ask ihe hon. charged summarily from service from Member whether he wants that the the shipyard— the shipyard for which' executive should interfere with the the responsibility is that of the Gov judiciary. ernment of India. I am m aK m g a reference to it. Sir. with your ner- Dr. Lanka Sundaram: Sir, that is mission. I hooe the House will bear- a legal argument, which I need not with me if I make one point, namely, possibly exoand beyond a certain that everywhere the Government o f point, as stated in the judgment of India in the position of employer is the Suoreme Court, that insteaa of ex short-circuiting the laws of the land, pressing regret for what has happen in order to create special situations. I ed...... will explain. Yesterday a notice was served on the workers asking them Dr. Katju: But what have I done for peremptorily to get out of the ship which I should express regret? yard. Normally 14 days’ notice ii> given—time notice. But now they Dr. Lanka Sundaram: There you are offered cash payment in lieu of are. notice. They are turned out. And how are they turned out? Section Dr. Katju: How can I express re 144 is to be declared and the entire' gret for something that I have not military might of the Government put- done? behind the shipyard, and so on and so’ forth. Now, the House will agree Dr. Lanka Sundaram: I leave the with me that this is a way in whiclfe point at that, because we will have not only the rights of workers are further occasions to refer to it, when side-tracked and stabbed from behind,. 3391 ' Demands jor Grants 31 MARCH 1953 Demands /or Grants 33 9^ - b ut situations involving law and cr- go there. My lion, friend, the Minis dpr are created. In other words, if ter himself may go there and estab they had been given _14 days’ notice lish contact with one particular por they would have the right to approach tion of the country which is complete the arbitration and conciliation ma ly ‘black’, in the sense that nub-jdy has chinery available in this country. A so far attempted to enter it, because reference could have been made lo the it is most inaccessible and is neglect- - Labour Commissioner. Madras, An Ad ed. This plea I make because I feel judication Tribunal could have been that there should be no ‘black’ and set up. In situations of this charac -‘white’ patches in this country as re- - ter. workers are prevented from enjoy gards the policy towards the Schcdul- - ing the rights they are entitled under ed Castes and Tribes. I also say this : the law of the land. If any ii^cidents because I belong to a double-member happen on account of ignorance or ir constituency, and I am elected also by ritation. then the heavy arm of the the Adivasis. law would come upon them, and my Dr. Krishnaswami (Kancheepuram): hon. friend. Dr. Katju. would stand up Sir. may I make a personal appeal at and say: ‘It is a law and order situa the outset to my hon. friends opposite tion’. and to the Minister for Parliamentary I am most rtnxious that my hon. Affairs in particular? We have been^ friend should urder a review of the witnessing debates on the various cut manner in which the rights of worker! motions for the cast few days and the and their terms and conditions of one feeling which has sprung upper service are being regulated under the most in the minds of many of us in the various Government departments, the Opposition is that we obtain no rep manner in which recognition is grant lies to the queries raised by us. that ed or not granted to trade unions—• we have general references to all things because the rights of collective bar under the sun, without any special re- - gaining, of association and combination, ference to the particular subject under are always there without which the review. It is a matter for regret that relationship between the employer and Parliamentary debate, to which very the employed, as far as the Govern great inuuytance is attached in a ment of India is concerned, cannot be mocracy. and more particularly in ?>n regulated. I do hope that Ihis con infant democracy becomes futfl*- structive suggestion I am placing be precisely becausp my hon. friends— I fore the House will be looked into by make this charge in all humilitv and my hon. friend. a)id that he will take seriousness, do not take their duties^ steps to see that there is one set of .seriously. uniform conditions for all oalegories This aoart. let me advert to the ad of workers. ministration of the Ministry of Home Affairs and States. I address iny re In the annual report of the Home marks directly to the Minister for Ministry there is a paragraph—1 dare Home Affairs snd States because I say you must have seen it—which says feel that the Ministry under his charge ' that there are separate rules provided occunie.s a pivotal position in the for the Railway Ministry employing country’s set-up. So far as I can one million workers in this country. make out. up to the present, the Gov Why should it be so? Why these ernment in considering the great different rules? The Home Ministry issues—the issues of. civil liberty, the is responsible for the country as a administrative reorganisation of Sta whole. I do hope my hon. friend tes and the partition of the South—has will look into this. not displayed anything like a sense o f One final word, Sir. I want to responsibility. There has been con- - make a brief reference to the Sche siderable shilly-shallying and dilly- - duled Castes and Tribeis of— «shall I say dalbang with these manifestly impor Andhra Desa— of Dandakaranya— a tant problems. I do not propose to part of my constituency, about which make a detailed reference to civil ’ not much has been heard in this liberties in our country, partly because House. It is only fair that I should I do not have the time to deal with raise my little voice here in favour of them at length. Moreover this some attention being devoted to the House will be called upon to review ' Scheduled Tribes people of the Agen the whole question of preventive de cies of the Godavari and Visakhapat- tention and civil liberties sometime nam districts. I know the annual re later in November when we will have port of the Commissioner will come probably a great opportunity to make - before us. I am prepared to wait till a detailed and searching inquiry into - then, but what 1 am trying to say is the various sins of omission and com- - that 600,000 people in this hinterland mission of our Home Ministry, The of India, which is the belly of this Home Minister points out that we will country, are completely neglected. I have only one day; but even one day would suggest that Mr. Srikant may would be enough to bring to the n otice' :3393 Demands for Grants 31 MARCH 1953 Demakds for Grants 3394 [Dr. Krishnaswamil of our people all the various infring- prevented from discharging their duties, the well-being and welfare of ments on civil liberty that have been committed by the Govern- the community is involved. I was, ment. But there is one inci therefore, surprised when my hon. 1 friend, in reply to the debate did not dent which cannot be ignored and which, I hope the Home Minister consider it proper to indulge in an expression of regret for the injury would particularly take note of. and that had been inflicted. While he furnish us let me hope a saii^tactory spoke, he was speaking as though it . reply. was merely a case of the inferior judiciary being corrected by the My hon. friend. Dr. Lanka Sunda- superior judiciary. Every tyro L ram. in the course of his speech point knows that the subordinate judi ed out that the unlawful detentior. of ciary is bound to be corrected by three hon. Members of this Parlia the superior judiciary. In fact, we ment was dealt with by the Govern lawyers, whenever we frame our ment in a cavalier fashion I entirely grounds of appeal begin with the plea agree with him that this issue was not that the lower court has acted properly considered. My hon. friena. erroneously and pray the High court the Home Minister, in the course of h s.s to interfere on behalf of our client. reply on a previous occasion on this But, there is a duty on the oart i>f subject and in the course of various the Executive, especially where there interjections during Dr. Lanka Sunda- has been an infringement of a funda ram’s speech, in a spirit of levity said mental right and where hon Members - that he was not responsible for con have been prevented from discharging trolling the judiciary, that the errors their Parliamentary duties to express of the subordinate judiciary were gracefu’ly regret, to make reparation : bound to be corrected by the superior for the injury done and by expressing . judiciary. But I would like to point regret indicate to the Magistracy that out that while the law protects judi in future at least such errors will not cial officers including Ma^istta^es from be acquiesced in and that they ought liability to persons injured even by to be more careful in their interpre grievously or manifestly wrong oiders tation of our guaranteed rights. passed by them, there is a responsibi lity which the Executive has to the Having disposed of this matter, let injured citizen. Reparation for in me advert to the question of part‘ t;on jury which has been done is Lhe mani of the South. My hon. friend knows fest duty of the State and the Execu and it is now common knowledge that tive. I would like to bring to the we decided to cross the rubicon in notice of my hon. friend a very impor December last when the Prime Mini*?- tant case which figured large :n the ter made his famous declaration of Law reports of the United Kingdom— policy on the constitution of the the case of Adolf Beck who had been Andhra State. I should have thought : sent to prison not because the Magis that the Home Ministry, the moment trate or the Judge did not know vvhat that declaration was made, would the law was but becausf^ ther*^ take certain consequential steps and misapprehension of the facts of the would have had those stens imple case. mented before it thought of an en- auiry being conducted by the Chief There was gross miscarriage of jus- Justice of the Rajasthan High Court. ■ tice but the Home Minister in the As it is. the oosition as it emerged is House of Commons got up and made extremely difficult for common people : a handsome apology for what had oc like myself to understand. The Chief curred. It did not follow that by so Justice of Rajasthan was deputed to doing he was controlMng the judiciary. make a roving enquiry into financial, What is required of a civilised Gov D olitical and social problems without ernment is an expression of regret any definite decision being taken on for any injury that might be inflicted Dolitical issue by the Government. on an individual. Where a wrong is What, for instance, was the meaning committed by a private individual, of having a tedious and irritating dis no one can seriously complain against cussion on whether Madras should be - the Government because the law al the temporary capital of Andhra lows him full scope for redress. But when you had not taken steps , or -where the injury is inflicted by a rather when ytm had not even en State agency acting in the exercise visaged the steDS to be taken regard -o f official authority, the position is ing fixation of a permanent capital manifestly different. And, if the State for the new Andhra State. As re . agency interferes, in addition, with sult of your not having made dear ' the fundamental rights of the citizen, your intentions, as a result of your sas in the case of these three hon. not having a settled policy, what hao- Members of Parliament. v/ho were pened was that the citizens of the 3395 Demands /or Grants 31 MARCH 1953 Demands for Grants 339^ cesiduary State obtained the impres choose to say that you will not accept sion, perhaps justifiably, that a tem them into precedents; but, at any porary capital would, as in Wonder rate, here is a principle which we land mean a permanent capital. A have to take into account. Instead of great deal of heat and passion was that we had infructuous discussions generated, heat and passion which we about how much compensation should all regret and which, many of us be paid, and how the compensation tried our best to calm but which was should be extracted and what princi rendered impossible because the Union ple should be evolved in finding out •Government had not understood its who should pay compensation. The Jesponsibilities properly, 1 am sorry duty of the Union Government is to have to speak in this strain, but clear. Once it is decided to form a feeling as I do strongly I must point new State, it is its responsibility to 4Dut that the approach to the problem provide the new State with finances; Of partition of the South was and U it is its duty to see that the new comp'etely wrong. In the first place State is put on its feet: it is its duty we ought to understand that the parti to give the new State sufficient oxygen tion of a State stands on a difterent so that it may survive, and not pass -footing from the partition of India the baby on to the residuary State of -and Pakistan. Whereas in the pre Madras already impoverished by sent case, we envisage these two division. Have you fulfilled your states being units of the Indian duty? Union in the case of partition of India and Pakistan we visualised the In the Budget which was introduced creation of two sovereign States. some weeks ago, no provision has •Consequently, when we make an in been made for the capital expenditure ventory of the assets and liabilities to be incurred iDy the new State in in the two units of the Union, our building a capital. In the later -approach is bound to be different. statement made by the Prime MinistOT What has been the attitude of our there is no reference to anything like Government? By not having thought- ‘a permanent capital’. There is only out these matters clearly, not having a reference to a temporary capital clarified your position, all sorts of and V l that we are told is that the controversies have been allowed to fijiancial consequences of such loca crop up, and as a result of such con tion would be examined later on. troversies arising, the House knows What I should have wished for and that the South today is nothing else what many of us in the South devout ■but a. House divided against itself, ly wish for is an outright declaration and I go further and charge the Union of policy of how you are going to Government with being interested stablise the new State and its near 'deliberately in promoting feelings of neighbour the residuary State of hatred, disruption, and disunity in Madras. After all the Madras State the South. (Interruption.) I am glad is a neighbour of Andhra Desa and. w that I have been interrupted because the long run, we have to live in amity this gives me an opportunity for with the new Andhra State. I realise elaborating the thesis which I pro that un’ess and until the Union Gov pounded elsewhere that the Home ernment plays the game fairly, there Ministry has been responsible for pro^ is a chance . of bad blood developing moting 'disruption and disunity in the and all our relations becoming more South. What would you expect—and embittered. It is a prospect which I this is a point which I wish to r%ui do not view with equanimity. But. before my hon. friend. the Home what the attitude of the Union Gov Minister—what would you expect my ernment and the Ministry for Home hon. friend to do when a State is Affairs, in particular is. I have not being partitioned? When a State is 'been able to make out at all because partitioned. I should have thought from the Prime Minister’s statement that the Home Minister would follow one does not know where we are and the precedents set up by those who all that we have obtained from it is previously created new States out of soft words. Soft words do not butter old States within the Union. This parsnips. A solvent and stable new division of States is nothing new. Andhra State is a matter j f priiriC :Sind and Orissa, for instance, were importance to citizens of the residuary separated. But. we know how exactly State of Madras, because we have to the assets and liabilities were divided live together and iDromote ultimately then. Section 55(2) o f the Govern the unity of the South which is some ment of India Act. 1935, has laid thing we "have to treasure and cherish with unsurpassed clarity the princi if we are to prosper. I repeat ihat by ple on which the assets and liabilities its policy of shilly-shallying and dilly should be divided as between the dallying, we have had the whole State residuary State and the now State divided, not only geographically but You may choose to ignore you may even psychologically and it would tak® 30 PSD 3397 Demands for Grants 31 MARCH 1953 Demands for Grants 3398 [Dr. Krishnaswamil years of patient toil and statesman speaking, during the last, year thp ship before a Union of hearts emerges. affairs of the Home and States We may if we are wise take revenge Ministries have been handled very on the Union by bringing home to the satisfactorily. Throughout the coun minds of our people the essential try, inspite of repeated efforts for un lack of humanity displayed by tnis necessary provocations, peace has pre Government in its treatment of these vailed, and for this our thanks are grave problems. Give the new not only due to the Ministers or the Andhra State and the residuary Mad ofiicers concerned in the Department, ras State a chance to live together in but our thanks are mainly due to the amity. Give the Andhra State chance people in the entire country for the to prosper. Do not try to make it a way in which they have behaved. failure, and thus act in a way which They had to pass through diflicult is detrimental to the fundamental in times, but they have realised the im terests of the South. I am .'sorry to portance of observing peace. have to speak in this strain, but I They were disturbed by many have, always found— and I hope I am problems which could not be not hard on the Home Minister—I solved all of a sudden or have always found him taking up an within a short time, but vet. as I attitude of extreme laissez-faire, an have said, inspite of provocations our attitude of extreme indifference. people have behaved very nicely, A Dr. Katju: Against whom, and sense of responsibility has grown up, about what’ and this is a very good augury for our prosperous future. Dr. Krishnaswami: Towards all these problems. There have been attacks in this House since yesterday on the services Dr. Katju: I leave it to you to and the manner in which they are decide for yourself. discharging their duties. I do not • Dr. Krishnaswami: We cannot de want to say that our services are per fect, or that there is no scope for im cide for ourselves because the two States have to be units of the Union provement, or that they might not and the Union Government has to have committed mistakes. play a dominant part. As a matter Dr. Lanka Sundaram: Then what o f fact, if it had been a case of our do you say? decidmg by ourselves, the enuncia Shri G. H. Deshpande: T would tion of the new policy by the Prime t^ell my hqn. friend that he . laughs^ Mmister in December need not have best who laughs last. I will presently been made: the new policy was a re tell the Opposition Members what I vision of the old. The Prime Minis do want to say. Let them compare ter’s statement gave us the definite the work that has been done by our indication that you would go ahead services during the last five years with the formation of the Andhra with the work done by officers in any State, whether there was agreement other country in Asia. They might between the citizens of the residuary have committed mistakes, but gener State of Madras and the Andhras or ally speaking they have stood the not. Therefore, it is up to you to live test. Our thanks are due to them for up fully to your responsibilities and our being where we are. I Have no to give the new Andhra State such doubt that a change has come over sources of revenue as you can imme them. Only yesterday, a certain oflfT- diately spare and such other sources cer was named, who I iearn now is later as will make it stab]e. There the Commissioner in Tripura and ^ . no use o f saying, “ Oh, There is a Manipur. The same gentleman was Five Year Plan in the oflRng.” If the Collector of my district for two ^alities are to be taken into account, or three years and from my personal if fairness and justice are to moti- knowledge I know with what efficiency, your actions. the peace and with what sincerity, and with what stability of peninsular India, of the patriotism he was working. He func*- jesiduary State of Madras and tioned in my district on momentous Andhra, must be considered to be occasions when things were disturbed more important than the fulfilment throughout India. He preserved of a Five Year Plan which confers if peace; he preserved tranquillity; he at all only remote benefits on the worked as a patriot. I cannot ima^ South. gine how he might have changed now. People simply want to make capital Shri G. H. Deshpande (Nasik—Cen by such criticism. That is why in tral): T rise to support the Demands season and out of season they go on j)laced before the House on behalf of criticising the officers. It !s no use the Home and States Ministries, and running down the, officers as a class. i do so wholeheartedly. Generally After all. they are also sons of the 3399 Demands for Grants 31 MARCH 1953 Demands for Grants 3400 soil. It is not as if you can bring Shri G. H. l>eshpande: I would meritorious people from outside and ask my hpn. friends to read v^hat has substitute them immediately for oili- beer^ done for these people. If there cers in service. It is not that they are peopfle who having eyes refuse are the only sinful people, so you get to see, who having ears will not hear, them out and replace them with very who having brains refuse to • imder- good officers. If they have irawbacks. stand, I have nothing to say. But as the drawbacks are there in tne coun far as the scheduled castes and tribes try itself. If you want to raise the are concerned, considerable im standard of morality ''of the services, provement has come about. I that can only come about when the am very well acquainted with general standard of moralitv in the the situation in the Bombay country as a whole improves. While State. If you will read the report I agree that there is scope for improve about the progress of the backward ment, I think that the Home Ministry classes in Bombay State, you ^ilL find is discharging its duties in this res that great progress has been made so pect very properly.' Only this morn far as education is conr^erned. So far ing, reference was made as to how as social status is concerned, these things are being done. So, 1 will not people are much better off. They are go into it. quite free from the clutches \^f the sahukars and zamindars. They are not required to pay very heavy land Now, as regards Part C States, if rent. Government is there; always you win cast a cursory glance over trying to help them. Educationaliy, the small pamphlet that has been great progress has been made. Free distributed to us, you will find that boarding houses have been establish tremendous efforts have been made for ed. Not only is primary education the welfare activities in these States. given to them free of charge,, even An attempt is being made to estab secondary education in Bombay is lish law and order there, to give im given to them fiee of charge. Not petus to the nation-building activities only is it free of charge in the schools, there, to bring them in line with the but even in colleges, education is other parts of the country, and so on. given to them free of charge. Gov I have no doubt that in future, all ernment has started hostels for them, these small pockets in India 'aiII come and there is not a single district in tip to the standard of the rest of the Bombay where Government are not country and there would be no need maintaining a hostel. All these things for maintaining these Part C States. must be seen in order to understand They will be merged with the ad how progress is being made. There joining States. If jve carry on our are people who want to ignore all work with patience and in the way tJiese things. They want to spread a we are doing now, ,very soon there counsel of despair among the public. will be no necessity for maintaining They always minimise the achieve these Part C States. ments. It is done with a motive. They do not want to see that people I have heard a lot of criticism in should realise these things and con- this House regarding the way in .solidate and improve India. If condi which the question of the backward tions improve, they will have to close classes, the scheduled castes and the their shop. That is what is before scheduled tribes is being handled. I them. That is why all these efforts come from a district where nearly 25 are being belittled by them. per cent, of the population consists of scheduled castes and tribes. No doubt, much has to be done. But it does not mean that Httle has been Then I would like t(^say one thing. done. Let us think of the Harijans. So far as these tribes are conferred, Are they the same as they were so far as the scheduled caste people twenty-five years ago? Is the lot of tribes are concerned, I the aboriginal tribes the same as have no doubt that something rr.ore some years before? Is the lot of the ought to be done. But look at the scheduled tribes the same as some attitude that my hon. friend Mr. years befgre? Tremendous changes Ra.iabho.i takes! When we throw have been made. open wells for Harijans they advise Shri N. Sreekantan Nair: Theii their people not to go there; when condition is worse. we open schools the.y advise their fel Shri G. H. Deshpande: Economical low caste people not to attend ly, socially and educationally great tJiem. They advise the Hari.ians not progress has been made. to associate themselves with so ca’led caste Hindus, because if untouchabili- Shri N. Sreekantan Nair: In every ty IS removed, whose leaders will respect they are worse. they be? They will be unemployed. Mr. Chairman: Let him proceed. There are some people, who if there 3401 Demands for Grants 31 MARCH 1953 Demands for Grants 34<» [Shri G. H. Deshpandel are no strikes in India, will be un ^pu employed. I say this with a sense of ^ ?rnr^ % ft ^ q r ^ i responsibility. . I have seen many ^ «TT ^ % fw # times striker being organised without any economic reason, to the detriment o f the interests of the general masses of labour. I ^n^TT So I want to say that the Home ^ ^ ^ 2- Deoartment and the States Depart ment during the year under considera ferr ^ I 3TT^ tion have discharged their duties ex- «"ellently well. There is some scope ^ f^T^TPTT ^ I ^ ^ for improvement, but they are pro ceeding on sound lines and that is IT2TT I ^ WT wny I say I support the Demands. W T T ^ sstpT ^ (^TT f ^ f ^ r fjT?TTiTT ^qr | i . ^ ^ qT3T ^ ^cT ^ 3t#r ?T^ 1 , 1 ^ ^ fcr.' % 3Trdf-rf^ «f ?ftT ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^i€i % ^ % 5rf^rW«Rft ^ I , ^ ^ ^ n ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ffTCtft % ITT?T^ ^ ^ ^ ^ITT «TT, ? fk ^ ^ #■ ^ f t ^ %tn: % tr^^TlfqFJ^T. ^f, 5!T I f^3RT#’ f^ m r- (demarcation line) spt «ft s r ^ ^ m TiTTir ^ fir^rr^Tr ^rq" ?fk m ^r*T TT3f^^r^T ^ \ f T ^ w !i^ f t ^ ^ n r ? ^ ?TT ^ . ^ JWU ^ ^qr % fT^V ^'r ffT ^'7T W ^ t ? ^ ^ f^5TT t I ^'t ?TI I Trrq-^TT w t w m ^ >rrt ^qr I I ^ tr^ (T^ cf^ ^ ^ ^ %5T^ TOT «n-1 q f ^ t ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ SRTT ^ iFH! ^ ^ ^ f I IT^ WT f w ^ I s r ^ ^rfirfa' ^ ^ TT^r^^rnr ^R^fnx % ^ ?TR % ^ it' ^ m SR % ^ ^ TTsrpTPT ^ ^^hrr i % TRT Tfirr I sft^ ?rr >TFr if ?rn- % ^ j , ^3TTT 'T^ ^ ^ ■ ?n^ ^ m ?fh: % w fffg^rr ^ %nrr ^ # The G.P.C.C. wisely did not pro ^ 2: ?f’ fjTcTJTT t ’ I test when areas which must have been legitimately included in Guja t , ^ rat were placed in other States at qrr I I TTSTPTH the time when different areas were included in various States ^ ^ ^ because it felt that the situation Of the country and the unity o f fV ^ rS primary importance. The G.P.C.C. did not make any de f ^ srtfer ITT# mands nor did agitate for them But when Rajasthan has started =5TTf^' I ^ an ^itation for the Abu area and f ^ irrH N r furiously, the G.P.C.C. strongly declares its (re-distribution of boundaries) claims for Dungarpur, Banswada and such other areas which have ^ f^PTT ^S[T^ ^ ^ been mduded in Rajasthan. The people of some of these areas have in fact, passed resolutions asking for merger with Bombay State. This Committee, therefore, re ^ I ^ TT?rnff quests, the Central Government not to reopen this question as it ^ JTTT^f ^ f?rr «rr, would be unwise to do so. If however, it is reopened the evii ^ ^PTT ^ effects of such an unwise step { round the table )#5 will not remain confined to the Abu Area only but will spread to ^ ^ 1w w «rT I ^ ^ the people of other States, and will create bitterness and tension all ^ -hiH h ^ IV ^F% ^ ^ ^ ^ I TRmf ^ ( lis t ) ttW , ^ If in spite of these considera tions, the question is to be re (check) ^ opened a Commission for the de marcation of the boundaries of the Bombay and Rajasthan States should be appointed. That Com I ^ % <^K 4*<^' olid ^ mission should allow an oppor tunity for-presentation of Bombay ^ »Rt I ^ ?ft t states claims regarding the Gujarat areas.” ■ ^ f^RRT ^ «T, ^ ^ ^ ^ ?TT^ ^ f sF T I ^ I ' i ?TT3r ^ ^ I ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ frrfTOT ^ ^ f I TT5m$ff ^ ^52TRT ^ f ‘ ^ 3405 Demands for Grants 31 MARCH 1953 Demands for Grants 34^6 WT I ? ^ fe n -1 ^ I I ^f3^ ^T ^ ^ sftf^ q^ ^ ^ ^ WK ^ I (privileges) % ®h^d1 ^ 1% ^ ?rT»ft' w Trf^nTnT^ ^ #' f ^ f w w r qr ^ ?■> 5T ^ ^ W IT I f^r ^ w I I I ^vT ^ t ?rrq^ | ^ q? ?r^TT ?rr7 q-fe^r ^ I ^ ^ q ^ ^ ’t' ^ f S5 w I ^ w ^ 1 1 a m ^ WTK fMfqw'Ji^ ^ I w * T t 1% ^^TT I ^ T^f ( p r iv y p u rse ) ^ ^JTKT I^IT t I ^ ^TTf t ^ C ^ ^FPT ^qr ^ ^ HMr i ? r ^ ^ ^ ^.H ^>TT I 1 1 ^ ^ ^ ^ ^T ^ ^ ^ I 6 p . M . ^ W>T ^T^f I ^ f ^ ^ f ^fT^ % <.H(iff ^ ^TWR ^ f 51^?: ^ 1 (covenant) ^ q r ^ ^Tf^r (life time) ^ ^ ^ ^q-f?7fJT^ ^ t I % q^^tr (flo o r ) ^ ^ o ('C' class states) ’STT (w o r d ) ^ ^ qj ?TTf qt^ w ^ ?mT (honour) i ^ srf^ I I ?TT % ^ ^ ^ q>rffsF^TT ?rnf ^ ^IPTT I -R' ^TXqfiTT w OT f^qr w «rr ^nrr ^< ^ ^ ^ ^i€i T^^ ^ ^ ? rn r ^t?7ti' i ?nn: ^ ^rf w?TT ^ qr ffTTTt ^ ^ ^ ^ f^qr ^strtt I ^qirr ^ ?r^ff ^ W i ^T ^TTt^ ^ I ^ 'TT fWT ^ I ^rmft I' 2T^ ^ t I feft 5T feft TT^ ?rnr Tr^rr?ft ^ ^ftf^ q'^f qr ^pr I ^rrq^ ^ ^ I ^e^T ^ TfT ^ I ^T+H ^ ir^ TT^rsn^ ^ q r ^ i iRT# ^ ^ ^ TT5ft 5^ ?i1?: ^50- %t(T. I f^TFRTT ?r«fV ^ I ?TF5r ^ ^ ^ f ?fk ^ WTT ^ ^ % ^ 55Tift^ t ' I f Si ^ fT ^mr ^ 5 ^ fOT ^ TfT I I ^ y x ^ It %?: qr | i 3407 Demands for Grants 31 MARCH 1953 Demands for Grants 34og WTK ^ ^ ^ found a surprising amount of unani mity in the opinions expressed. No ^ ^srrar fk ^ ^ ^ matter whether if was a Congress lea der from Hyderabad or a Communist Member here or another Member from Assam, from every side you m x TT f^ heard three slogans—I know your aversion for slogans— and these were: #■ f»T^> fsF number one. abolish Rajpramukhs; (temporary capital) number two, damocratise and estab lish responsible Government in Fart ^>r .C States: and number three, do away with this bureaucracy (which ^ "WT ^ ^ ^ is but another word for corruption). These three demands have been out ^ f k ^ I forward. Congressmen demand it. the P.S.P.. support it, and the Communists are uncompromisingly for it. I ask: ' f q r ^ for whom are you keeping this Nizam of Hyderabad, these Rajpra fO T ^5TT A ^TTT^rr ^mrn: mukhs of States, and our gr^at friend there in PEPSU, the Maharaja o f f 4 ' ^ % f r - Patiala? For whom? Congressmen do not want them, the P.S.P. are against % «ii^ ^ +^r ^ them, and the Communists are un compromisingly against them: Then €\^ ^ ^ W ’ TFT^ for whom are you keeping them? ^ ^5T5^ ^ ^ f ^ r ^ That is for Dr. Kailash Nath K atju,. for whom we all have respect, to ^ I answer. Your own men do not want them. Then why keep them? The fact is that the present India, India in Shri Punnoose (AUeppey); The non. 1953, is really India in 1947 minus Member from Bombay was saying the British Rulers. Everything else is that we on thFs side do not hear there. After all, in the life and ex though we have ears and do not see perience of the people there is ab though we have eyes. There may be solutely no difference, while in this that t3T3e of deficiency or disease. House they shout, glory to the Con But I was wondering whether tl;o«?e gress Government. gentlemen who say that everything is Well take for example the execu going on as it ought to be and that tive. I was very much impressed by we have progresed as we should have, the eloquent defence given by that are not suffering from what is called side. I do not minimise your at double vision. Well, a great scientist tempts to curb the evils. But this is once discovered an elephant in ihe a disease that cannot be cured piece moon and began to weave a theory meal. Either you cut at the root or ^ibout it. But after some time it was you suffer from it. I do understand, found to his .disappointment that a officers can be very good servants. Tat had crept into his telescope! I But they should be servants. They would ask the hon. Members of the should not become masters. But that ■other side to examine whether the is what is happening. The Ministers* Tat has crept into their telescope. rule is a euphemistic expression. They do not rule, they only reign. In After these five years how are we fact, everyone of our Ministers, Minis to settle accounts? Is it enough for ters of the States and all those people, lion Members on the other ^ e of whom we respect, at the Centre, are the House to shout that .we have being led helplessly and sometimes prospered? Or is it enough that some hopelessly by their Secretaries. They of us here also should loin that army are in the hand^ of the Secret£iries, who sing their praise? There are mi the Under-Secretaries and the vast llions of people in the country who army of officers. Some of the police have to decide it. You say that they officers in my State, whom sometimes have done a lot for the Harijans and we meet when we are free, have told the Scheduled Castes. But in all res me during the last few months: “ WelL pect I woultj ask the hon. ^ em ber Mr. Punnoose* please do not misunder from Bombay what has he heard stand us; We are not against you; from the mouths of Harijan Members when the British were here they or -on the other side of the House, on his dered us to arrest you and Congress own side. Throughout yesterday and men and give .you blows; we did. on many occasions today we have ’’‘hen the Congress came; they asked 3409 Demands for Grants 31 MARCH 1953 Demands for Grants 341a [Shri Punnoose] us to arrest you, arrested you and Shri Sivamurthi Swam! (Kushtagi): gave you blows; tomorrow you may I have to make a statement only for come here and when you come and five minutes to represent the dissatis ask i^s to arrest Congressmen we will faction and undesirable feelings of arrest the|n and give them blows.” KarnataK people over Bellary District Here is a set of people who are more after the Prime Minister’s statement than Ministers. They say Ministers regarding Andhra State. might come an^ go but we are here for ever responsLbie to none, responsive to Mr. Chairman: Order, order. There none! As long as this set-up is there, are a good many Members anxious to no matter whoever .be the able men at speak. , Several of them have not even, the helm like the gentleman who are made their maiden speeches. We are sitting there now or even men more running against time. revolutionary are there, nothing good ran come to this country. Shri Sivamurthi Swami: Only twa minutes. ^ Shri S. V. Ramaswamy (Salem): The Mr. Chairman: The hon. Member hon. Member is not addressing the should not take up this attitude. He Chair. begins speaking himself without my' calling him. Shri Punnoose: I am sure the chair man’s eyes are everywhere. Dr. Katju: We have had a rather unusual feature inasmuch as two Min I will come to the institution of istries have been discussed at once but Rajpramukhs. Why not We abolish it? I think it has been a satisfactory pro What is the moral argument against it? cedure because after all. the Ministry What is the political argument against of States and the Ministry of Home it? The other day in the Travancore- Affairs deal with the same matter, Cochin State Assembly the Revenu namely the preservation of tranquillity Minister was replying that the Raj- and the maintenance of law and order pramukh of Travancore-Cochin has got in the States^ and I look forward to the- a landed property of 16469 acres. A day in a very few years when we will small area! My friend Mr. Chacko and have only one Ministry, the Ministry" others are fighting for new lands in of Home Affairs, for the whole of Andamans. We are suffering from India. India is a big home whether acute density of population and at the you divide it into A, B or C and it same time the Rajpramukh can own ought to be cared for as one big home. so many acres. So far as the Part B States are con cerned. in seven years’ time under the Then what about the dismemberment Constitution, all the distinction will of Hyderabad and the formation of come to an end. So far as Part C the Vish&la Andhra which we demand States are concerned. 1 shall take them what about the Aikya Kerala which up in a minute. we demand? What about the Kamatak which we demand and I do not propose to keep the House- what about Maharashtra? Your plea for a very long time and therefore it that India is going to be dismembered may be that I may omit to deal with by this is bogus because the number of some of the minor points raised here Linguistic Provinces formed wiU .be but I should like to assure hon. Mem one less than the present number. bers that I have taken note of every The fact is that you want to display single important point that has been democracy alone while everything mentioned and I need not say that I below remains as it was before. The shall pay the most earnest attention to same social elements, same social all the suggestions made. classes are entrenched in power with T shall deal with the States Ministry the result that, while you shout the word first. The House has heard various democracy, people down below who Doints, not so mucn with the welfare- work and toil, lead a miserable life. If we mean business, let us begin with it. of the peoDle of these States. A point L«t us have no Ra.ipramukhs. let us was raised about financial integration bring these officers under the control of a great'deal of attention was paid the people. Whenever an occasion to the institution of Rajpramukhs. the privy purses and private nroperty. comes, I will be able to state how it ran be done, and let linguistic States Therefore, in a way. the debate became formed immediately. With tbes» n debate on the ex-Rulers of Indian few words. I conclude. States. So far as the Raipramukhs as an institution is concerned the House Mr Chairman: The hon. Minister for is aware that we are bound by our Home Affairs and States. pledges and I am rather obliged that 3411 Demands for Grants 31 MARCH 1953 Demands for Grants 34^^’ my hoii. friend from Hyderabad, may not be charged with breaking our: Swami Ramananda Tirtha recognised solemn promises. That brings me to this leature. He aiso said that he was the other aspect, namely, the privy In no way very eager to proceed hastily purse. I have before me an extract but he put it in the right way, namely from the speech which was made toy that he hoped that the Rajpramukhs Sardar Patel in October, 1949 in the might be persuaded to agree to a Constituent Assembly when the House change. That approach. I respectfully was discussing article 291 in which suggest, is the proper approach in this there was a constitutional guarantee case. I am speaking from some ex given about all these Agreements and perience. Rajpramukhs. as an institu Privy purses, and what not. 1 tion, involve expenditure. It also should like to read the last para of involves sentimental considerations Sardar Patel’s'speech, and psychological approach. My hon. friend Swami Ramananda Tirtha dealt “The capacity for mischief and with the sentimental matters. So far as trouble on the part of the Rulers if the financial approach wag concerned, the settlement with them would, I think he rightly did not lay stress on not have been reached on a negoti it. I have been in Bengal and in ated basis was far greater than Orissa. . The Governor appointed by could be imagined at this stage. the President is only a constitutional Let us do justice to them; let us head of the State but under the sanc place ourselves in their position tion of the President. You may take and then assess the value of their it that the Governor is a source of sacrifice. The Rulers have now fairly considerable expenditure. He discharged their part of the obliga gets a salary, ho gets a sumptuary tions by transferring powers and allowance, touring charges and what by agreeing to the integration of not and all these come to Rs. two lakhs. their States. The main part of our As compared to the Governors. I im obligation under these Agreements agine that the Rajpramukhs are gett is to ensure that the guarantees.... ing a lesser sum. may be a lakh here or a lakh there. That does<.not matter, I wish the House should follow this,— (Interruptions). Sir if I am interrupt ed, yotr will have to sit till eight o* ...that the guarantees given by ClOCK. us in respect of privy purse are fully implemented. Our failure to Mr. Chairman: I request hon. Mem do so would be a breach of faith and seriously prejudice the stabi bers not to interrupt the hon: Minister. lisation of the new order.” Let him proceed in his own way. After all every hon. Member on this side of the House has also been heard patient Shri Pnimoose: What about the ly. . guarantee to the nation? Dr. Katja: That was in 1949; we are Dr. Katju: I quite appreciate the now in March 1953. The plighted word sentimental approach of my hon. remains. friend Swami Ramananda Tirtha. We were in Hyderabad and he gave a bit Shri Punnoose: The people? of history. He said, “ H(>*v can we Mr. Chairman: Order order. possibly deal with our Rajpramukh with whom we have had disagreement before”. Now the House will recollect Dr. Katju: The Constituent Assem»b- that there are only seven Rajpramukhs ly was representative of the people. and my hon. friend has been quite Hon. Members may hold their viaws. rightly dealing with one Rajpramukh They are a very revolutionary lot. I that he knows. I do not know really am sure— I do not know what to say— what would have been his sentiments either 4he Rulers ov Ex-Rulers, many if he had been a resident of a neigh of them will not be, and I will not be, : bouring State whose head is supposed safe when you come into power. to be an ideal constitutional ruler even Hon. Members: No, no. (Interrup before this merger. I only desire that We should resist the tendency to tion). - generalise upon individual experiences. In the South there ari* three Rajpra- Dr, Katju: You may take quite a niukhs. There may be differences of different view and change. So far as we opinion about each of them. Similarly, humble individuals are concerned, we in Northern India, there are four. I do have faith in the word that we give. not Wish to go into personalities. I do So far as privy purses are concerned, suggest that the right approach is that I should like to mention just one fact. We must proceed in such a way that we The House remembers that there have '3413 Demands for Grants 31 MARCH 1953 Demands for Grants 3414 [Dr. Katju] been orivy purses exceeding ten lakhs it is difficult to maintain a big house in ,in many cases, in the case of big an unknown place. It may be that Rulers. But, they are only for life. many of the Rulers may say, well, we have the satisfaction of having them as [M r . D e pu t y -S pe a k e r in the Chair'\ part of our private properties. Whoso Whenever there is a succession, every ever is going to live in Dungarpur or privy purse will be reduced to ten Banswara. They may consider hand lakhs. As a matter of fact, there have ing over these properties to the State .been some cases. The late Maharaja Governments for public use. thus earn of Jodhpur died in an air crash. His ing the admiration and gratitude of ^ privy purse has been reduced from their people. Any way, the suggestion twenty-seven lakhs to ten lakhs. There that was made in the debate namely have been other cases by death, ae- that the private property lists have been ,recognition, retirement or by historical simpl3' framed and settled in a hapna- processes. I was just calculating this zard fashion, that the people have had morning. At the end of their life, no voice, is entirely baseless. This is there would be a reduction of about all about the Ex-Rulers. one crore. Sardar Patel mentioned that . the total privy purse, when the Con stitution was .being passed, was some Then, a point was raised about Im- where about 5:8 crores. After this ancial integration of the .backward areas. I come from one of those small adjustment takes place at the end of the first life, that would be reduced to States myself. I realise where.the snoe four crores. I qite realise that the pinched and where it did not. My own - times are changing, and public opinion experience is that in so far as tne . is changing. 1 am aware more than small States are concerned, speaking many hon. Members here aware, very broadly, their economic condition that the Rulers and their families and —I again repeat the econoinic condi their sons and grandsons are auite tion of the people was in many ways alive to the exigencies of the times. not so bad as it was in some other That approach, I repeat, the approach parts of India. Of course, conditions mentioned by Ramananda Tirtha, differ from State to State. But. where .namely that they should be persuaded the Ruler was enlightened Ruler to enter into reasonable arrangements where he had a soft heart for the is the best. For us. having given our ^people, where he was accessable to the - word, on behalf of the people of India people, the^ condition was not so bad. in the solemn Assembly, it would not Assessment* was ' very light. Parti »be fair and we should not be accused of cularly, please remember that the entering into unilateral transactions. pressure of population in many of these States is not heavy. In Malawa. Madhya Bharat, the density is only Then, comes the Question of private about 190 or 180 per square mile as ^properties. I was rather surprised , compared with Bengal, U P. or the when I heard all that the lion. Lady eastern districts of the U.P. But. the Member who just now spoke mention- backwardness consists in other things. ,.ed. I find that this private property Take medical relief. The States, parti question was settled with extraordin.- cularly the Union States, were well off ary care. Every time the local Gov becaus<» every Ruler big or small had a ernments and Ministries were consult > €d, and the proof of that is this. I hospital or a dispensary or something. have been now ten m on^ in charge The backwardness consisted in educa tion. The Rulers were not fond of of this ministry. You may take it from me that not a single State Government maintaining schools. Communications were bad; and things of that descrip has said one word about the private proDertv lists or suggested that they tion. So far as that matter is concern have been ignored or that their views ed, the Finance Commission has dealt were not consulted or that the private with it and the Government, at the propertv list is wrong. Some private time of integration entered into a - property lists are still under considera solemn agreement with some of the tion. It is our practice that our officers Unions. Saurashtra, Madhya Bharat. go, keep the Ministries and local Gov Hyderabad also, where they said they ernments in the forefront and every would examine this alleged backward thing is settled with their considera ness and do their best to help them. tion. Lastly, I may sav ^hat some of • the properties in these lists are magni And something was said about *be ficent palaces and other nroperties. Five Year Plan and the Part B States They are not of much saleable_value. not having their share. It is not quite . They have no market. In these ‘ hard fair because I have now got the figures * , days, it is difficult to maintain a palace: from the Planning Commission. I 3415 Depiands for Gronts 31 MARCH 1953 Demands for Grants 34i6 been very much impressed by this think they have dealt with the Part B argument aoout wnat is called an States on a fairly liberal and generous economic uml. So far as the Pan C •scale. For instance, I find; States are concernea, the House would, recollect that in the United States Balance Available fbom R evenue which have now lasted for nearly 200 AccOTJSfT; years, the State units vary enormously in size. There are 48 States in the Contribution from the States— Union. At the one end you have New YorK, about two crores in population, Part A States .. Ra. 130 Crores. with a city supposed to be the biggest Part B States .. „ 19 ». in the world. I think eight million is the population of New York, and Additional Reveia es to be raised— Wealth labulous. I do not know really as 10 What is the revenue of the City Part A States .. lls. 167 Crores. of New York, apart from the State of Part B States . • ,, 43 *» New York. At the other end, there is a small State like Rhodes Island with Xoans from the Market— a population of hardly three lakhs an* Part A States .. Rs. 72 Crores. a haii; one State with wnich I at. rather familiar, Vermont, with a Part B States .. „ I? .. population 01 five lakhs; and the W ith IraWJ.1 from Reserves— Constitution is that each State, irres pective 01 Its size, sends two Members Pd,r: A States .. Rs. 46 Croies to the Senate which has got all power over peace and war questions; and so Part B States . . * ,, ,, 22 far as me Lower House, the House of Hepresentatives, is coricenied, for J^ow, the area is large, and the popula every six lalchs, you send a representa tion also is, i think, one to four. Now, tive wiin a minimum of one to provide as Minister oi states and as a resideni for the case of Vermont or Rhodes ot one ol these Inaian States myself I Islana. And the curious thing is that believe— I am afraid my hon. friend Vermont sends one Member to tte (to L^ii him tne Finance Minister) has House of Representatives, and two 10 -come to hold the opinion that I am an the Senate, and thus they are function aavocaie lor these Part B States so far ing. But, when I made enquiries ^s tne CaDinet is concerned; and as a there—and that is a matter which I Minister of States, it is my duty to put suggest that the protagonists of the iorward their Claims with all me Part C States should bear in mind—I jstrength that I possLbly can, and he found that the smaller States do not has aealt with us fairly in one manner, try to emulate the bigger States in viz.. the Chambal Project has got on their Ministerial management, in their to the Plan. When it is completed, it administration. The danger is that the will, we hope... Part C States mav become top-heavy in administration. I have noticed ^hat Shri Radhelhal Vyas (U jjain): But he tendency, that real danger. I spoke about it in Bhopal; I spoke about it in iias not given a single pie lor this year. Ajmer. They say: “ Very well. In .Dr. Katju: That is now your job. I Uttar Pradesh they have got ten Min have done my job. I am sure he looks isters. Why can’t we have at least vary austere, but he has got a very five? They have got ten Secretaries. soft heart and a very sympathetic Why can’t we have at least seven?” heart. He has done well. He Has There is a Law Secretary, there is a promised us all possible help, but he Finance Secretary, there is a Chief -has no money in his own pocket. He Secretary, there is a Public Health has got to raise it from other^ people. Secretary and what not. Then there -Anyway that is the situation.' is the Director of Public Instruction. Director of Public Instruction in Uttar Now, I come to the Part C States. Pradesh with 63 districts, and Director There, the House has noticed the politi of Public Instruction, let us say m a cal climate and rather differed violent small State with a population of five ly. Some hon. Members said: “Nothing lakhs! So. there is great opportunity, doing. This ought to be abolished. and great desirability there of co They are a drag on India.” Another ordinating with the neighbouring hon. Member who spoke for Delhi said: States so far as these highly technical “What is the good of threatening us apDOintments are concerned. You may with extinction every day? We are try to utilize the services of the neigh out here. Let us work.” At the out- bouring Director of Industries. Direct -•set, I must say one thing. I have never or of Public Instruction, Registrar of 3417 Demands for Grants 31 MARCH 1953 Demands for Grants 34i» [Dr. Katjul Co-operative Societies. Officer-in- that way, we cannot possibly take sn y charge of Veterinary Services and all risks in that State. that. If every one of these Part C Shri Nambiar: What is the risk? States tries to have an independent officer of its own, they will come to Mr. Deputy-Speaker: He has said it grief, .because, in the first place, the is a border State. officer concerned will not have much to do. and in the second place, the Fin Dr. Katju: I respectfully submit that ance Minister wiU say; “ I am not gomg the hon. Members try to pamt a to foot the Bill”. Therefore, if the picture of utter lawlessness. Some administration is not top-heavy, then body said it was colonialism. Just the smallness of the unit is not a consider it. Here is a Member from matter of great concern. Tripura sitting in Parliament, takmg part in debates, asking questions, and he says: “ Indian Imperialism is gov I will not take the House very long. erning the colonialism of Tripura and I am speaking quite generally. Among Manipur.” It is absurd. Can you the smaller States, we have got Ajmer, imagine it? Are you a sort of colony? Cdorg and Delhi. They are independ That shows the tendencny that, if any ent units because of long historical hon. friend gets the- chance, he will processes. Ajmer has been considered run away with it. a separate unit, I believe, from the year 1803. For historical reasons the Shri Rishang Keishing (Outer Mani British Government was treating it pur—Reserved—Sch. Tribes): W^.at I separately, and it was contmuea. said was that our position is worse than, Similarly, Coorg. And then, Kutch. that of the colonial people. (Inter- Then, we have Vindhya Pradesh and ruvtions). Himachal Pradesh,— good units, and I think, they are good units for admini Dr. Katju: Now, there is talk of stration also provided they take that democratization. I sometimes rub my into consideration. There is some talk eyes when I hear the phrase. Do you going on of ha vine a small Joint Public know what is imperialism? If it were Services Commission. There is a talk there, would you have been sitting here going on about joining the judicial in this Parliament? You have got the- administration with the neighbouring privilege of bringing to light, discuss High Courts. I should like to add here ing, and raising debates on minute* that the House may have seen in the questions, on how many prisoners .*ire newspapers that for the last three or there in jail... (Interruptions). four months I have been having talks Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Order, order,, with the Chief Ministers of the Part C let there be no concurrent remarks. States in which many questions have been placed for discussion. And we Dr. Katju: This afternoon, an hon. have reached agreed conclusions on Member raised questions ‘WTiat about every point, and the orders are now that particular field, is there water, or under issue and the result will be that is it a dry land...?’ and so on. You are the procedure wiU be very much bringing here all these points. You simplified, and I expect that the part C are represented here, and these are all States Governments will be able to elected people, elected Members from make much progress, better progress. different parts of India; and yet, you» say there is no democratisation, and Now, Manipur and Tripura have there is no Domilar rule there. (Inter- been very much talked of, and some ruvtions). I ouite realise this...... hon. Members coming from that part had spoken with zeal. Now. I must An Hon. Member: It is so. say that the picture that they try to paint has absolutely no relation to Dr. Katju: I quite realise that there reality. I have been there myself. I may be no Legislative Assembly there, have been at Manipur. I do not see and I am oui^e frank. The way in through anybody else’s eyes. I try to which some gentlemen have behaved, see through my own eyes in so far as I esneci^Uy some political parties have- can. I am not led by officers. I went, behaved there, makes us a little suspi mixed with the people. And I had cious. Conlderce, people say, is a been to Kutch only the other day. Now plant of very slow growth in ...... one factor was not mentioned, viz.. toth Trinura and Manmur Sire border An Hon. Member: It cuts both ways. States, and they are of the utmost str- Dr. Katju: What happening fltefrif* imnortanrp to India. Whatever there last year in ManTour and Tri may be t h e administration, this way or pura? I do not want to go into very 34*9 Demands for Grants 31 MARCH 1953 Demands for Grants 3420 controversial ground. This afternoon for myself, if I had been in any one of a question was put, regarding a case these States I would have welcomed the in which the accused were acquitted. appointment for the simple reason that i>ut 2d persons are still .absconding unaer the existing rules the State ^nd let my hon. friends, the members Counsellor is not there to interfere. of the Communist Party, who know He is there to offer advice, if eisked. more about those accused than I do, But the present situation is this: consider where these absconders are. There ^ no State Counsellor in My sore, none in Travancore-Cochin... Sri Biren Dutt (Tripura West): You •will never find them out. {Interrup Siiri Madhao Reddi (Adilabad) tions.) Why in Hyderabad? Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Order, order. Dr. Katju: ...and not one in Saura- How can inis be ailowed? There is shtra. The appointment is in abeyance some interruption or other, and hon. in Madhya Bharat. The situation real Members go on interpreting what is ly is this. We are not very keen. If said this way or that way. Let the you want one, we will give you one. hon. Minister go on now. Othea- hon. Members have had their own say. So, Shri Nambiar: We do not want. there is no meaning in laughing, or Dr. Katju: You do not want. doing this or that. That does not at all add to the decorum of the House. Shri Nambiar: In Hyderabad we do {Interruptions), not want. Shri Raghavaiah (Ongoie): A d Dr. Katju: I know you do not want allegation is made... anybody tnere. Now, that is the situa Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Order, order. tion. In Hyderabad we have got the Financial Counsellor to assist in the Dr. Katju: Lastly, there was some management of the finances. mention of Andamans, and I believe -some appreciation was expressed of Now, that brings me to the Home what was being done in the colonisa Ministry. I was glad to hear and I am tion scheme. We propose to acquire very grateful for what was said about about 20,000 acres of forest land, to the very welcome feature in the last settle about 4000 families there, and I year, namely^ that, but for the lawless thing a very large sum, over a crore ness in some parts of India owing to »of rupees has been sanctioned, and organised gangs and dacoits. In one lamilies are being sent there. But the particular place owing to some impro work is rather slow that it will take per functioning of the State Ministry about two or three years to complete and tnirdiy, owing to these everlasting the work. Meanwhile, communica threats of Satyagrahis and disobedience tions there are very difficult. I am of the laws, strikes and all that—if we trying my very best to improve them. eliminate these three— ^we can easily And the Communications Ministry congratulate ourselves on the tranquil have been verv helnful in having an conditions that have prevailed in this airfield built up there, v/ith good roads great land oi; ours. We are 36 crores. properly repaired and improved, and The whole world is in a very disturbed when that airfield comes into existence condition, and we are not behind any 1 am hoping that it may be possible to ‘Iron curtain’. I think the liberty that begin with a weekly service to Anda this country enjoys in freedom of ex mans. Some hon. Members of this pression and freedom ot public meeting House went there, and were enchanted is enviable. vvith that they saw. When the com munications improve, both by sea Shri Alffu Rai Shastri (Azamgarb -vessel and by air services, I do hope Distt.^Eas* cum Ballia Distt—West): that there is a very prosperous future Rather too much. in front of these islands. Some Members mentioned about Dr. Kaiju: Then the Press. A won that explosive topic— Abu. Views had derful Press we have got. They are been expressed. That matter is always free, they are onen. We have only to xinder consideration and something will read the Urdu Press, the Hindi Press have to be done about it. Of course, it and even the English sheets as to what is a question of time they say about us. And yet peace pre vails and that is, I suggest, possibly the Before I pass on from the States Min greatest tribute that one can pay to the istry, I might just say one word about general good sense of the community at the State Counsellors. Now, I know large. All sorts of things are said that different visws are held. Speaking before the people in the villages—a 3421 Demands for Grants 31 MARCH 1953 Demands for Grants 3422 [Dr Katju] new heaven, a new earth, a new Jeru jar, if they were there at all, and they woulfi nave been used elsewhere on salem, the poorer people who are pass anotiier occasion. Is tJiat the proper ing through troubles and hard times thing. If we put these aside, I think are told by my hon. friends here, there we have passed through a fairly — everywhere— all sorts of things, but peaceful period. still they hold fast to their moorings and they are not carried away. Shri Algu Rai Shastri: Why is all that allowed? Now, I should like to say something here about these constant threats of Dr. Katju: There is a good deal at strikes. It is a very painful i feature. talk about restriction of liberties and It is getting late. It is a very harmful preventive detention. One hon, friend thing. What was permissible, I suggest very generously said that he will say" tc you, when we were being ruled by something about it when the resolu foreigners is not permissible today. tion comes. I will wait and see. The- lady Member, who is not here. Mrs. Renu Chakravartty spoke about the Shri Nambiar: Why? . Kakdwip prisoners. Please remember* Dr. Katja: Here is a Government to that law and order is the primary^ responsibility of the State Govern^ which you are a oarty. You are talk ment. I have asked for information ing everyday of democratisation and of and what I find is that their r ase was. aemocratic Government, and tae first started two or three years ago. Then rule of a democratic Government is the the Supreme Court came in and said rule of the majority. (Interruptions). that the West Bengal Act for the trial If you do not accept it, if you say that of these cases setting up indenpen- you are entitled to break any law that dent Tribunals was ultra vires. That is passed by this House or by the State was in 1951. Then the West Bengal Legislatures, if anybody says like that, Government had to pass another A ct he is entitled to break it. I can under and the result is that the trials have stand a man saying: ‘Well, I am going now been going on and the accused on fast’. He goes on fast in a decent are undergoing trial. ^nanner and in his own house, liet him do it. But he starts it in a place like So far as the detenus under the Chandni Chowk or in front of the U.P. Preventive Detention Act are con^ Assembly on a piece of land. People cerned, the latest information is that go and want to break the law. Very the number of detem^s is six in the- well, let them .break the law. They whole of West Bengal. Now, I do not start a procession and what do they do? want to go into that. The House They do not simply rely upon the help may take it from me that the State- o f the living; they also s^ek the aid of Governments—I do not claim any the dead. Here are living men—men credit for myself— exercised the and women—sroing in procession and utmost scrupulous care that unneces here are the dead ?shes—I do not know sary action should not be taken under whether they are genuine or spurious. the Preventive Detention Act. But I do think that contingencies may arise They go in a nrocession. Ashes of when a situation may demand— it i. today. You employ a postman on the wife of an engineer. We were Rs, 80, you employ a clerk m the talking about salaries. She said; “If Secretariat. I was told that he would you give me a rent-free house (that get Rs. 105 as basic pay. You emr costs about Rs. 50); if you undertake ploy at that very age group a Munsif. to educate my children and give them a Doctor, a member of the Provincial free education right to the doctor's Medical Service, or an Engineer or a stage, or engineer’s stage or the law member of the Indian Administrative yer’s stage; if you give me free medi Service or the Provincial Service. cal relief, you may give me any What do you pay? The Doctor gets salary you like.” So, when you talk- Rs. 250, the Munsif tiels Rs. 250, and of reduction of salaries, please re Egnineers and technicians all those member that most of us come from' people who have qualified, poor fel middle classes. We have to educat«»' lows who have read for ten years and our children. The nation wants-' fifteen years in colleges. You take doctors. It wants technicians. I f advantage of them. You compare the wants engineers. It does not wanr salaries of that age group. V/hat you lawyers. But it wants servicemen do is to compare the salary in the If you have ta educate at your ex lowest group, the salary in the lowest pense, let us say up to the doctor’s group of 20 to 25. men who sfart stage, then according to a doctor their lives, with the salary of the whom I consulted this morning and topmost man at tlie age of 50 to 55 whom I asked, “ What did it cost your and you say that he gets Rs. 3.000. I father to educate you and make yoir ; am not talking about the Rs. 4000/- fit to function as a doctor?” , the cost \ people. is Rs, 30,000. Medical books are being sold for Rs. 40 or 30 each. The fees are- Shri K. K. Basil (Diamond Har mounting up. If you want to go by bour): May I know what the sweeper that sense of social justice, then th?- at the age of 55 gets? nation should take the responsibility" for giving free education to every Dr. Katju: I am coming to that. body...... (Members from the Opposi The Finance Minister is there, in anv tion: Hear hear.)...... absolutely free- case, to reply to it. ' education. But you are demanding I Shri Chattopadhyaya (Vijayavada): from the middle classes today that ■ Do not be an escapist. they should shoulder the burden and' they should educate their sons as Dr. Katju; Please hear me. A man doctors, technicians etc. and make^- In the 20 to 25 age group v.iio starts them available for the service of 1h^' on Rs. 80 or Rs. 100 gets lesponsi- nation. That is an aspect whiclr bilities, gets experience, gets children. should be considered. I should like He has to marry and educate bis to ask Members of the Communist children. He must be getting some Party—they take part in the debates— thing extra. What dues he get? 1 and tell them that we shall be very enquired about clerks. If a man is grateful if they will give us the latest unfit, he goes away. He is turned information and the most accurate- out. If he is normal, average, then one regarding the salaries in Russia... ^ may get a basic salary of Rs. 150. He starts on Rs. 75 and goes up to Shri Nambiar: Oh, yes. From the* Rs. 150, or with D.A. to Rs. 200- Soviet Embassy you can get it Similarly, a Munsif who starts on Dr. B[atju; ...... because I am told' Rs. 250 gpes up to Rs. 1000. An that the monthly salary for a maid XL is the black beast of is 300 roubles and the highest salary” the day— starts on Rs. 350—1 am talk is nine thousand roubles, and techni ing of the average man— and goes up cians and authors etc... .. to Rs. 1,800. If you say that Rs. 1,800 down to Rs. 150 is within your ten year Shri Oh^ctopadhyaya: But 300 roub time limit, then you should remember les is a wrong figure. that you are thinking of a responsibl® man, a man who has brains and goes Shri Algru Rai Shastri: What is the to high posts. I suggest for your right figure ? consideration that it is extremely un fair to take the ceiling of the lowest Shri Chattopadhyaya: I will tell compare it with the you. Even the old woman who sweeps highest age group. the floor receives a salary of 600 roubles. Then there is another matter. Be T House is iatCTested in this. Dr. Katju: That is all right. A mention it. I once had a talk sweeper here also gets Rs. 88. So. witlT a young lady. Do not laugh- what is the good of talking in that K i relation of mine. You know way? I 'want to ask another que&* ® well. So. do not tion. 'This 600 roubles is the floor. *augh. It IS very indecent. She is What is the ceiling? 3425 Demands for Grants 31 MARCH 1953 Demands jor Grants 342^ Shri Chattopadhyaya: You mean they have established what is called the average? judicial panchayats. The law was passed in 1948 and it took some time to 7 P.M. start the machinery and hold elections. Dr. Katja: No, the ceiling. I am Under the elected system these pan- told it is nine thousand roubles, ten chayats have been functioning for the thousand roubles and sometimes even last two years. I have collected . sixty thousand roubles. Anyway, figures for the last nine months and my hon. friends will give us the in you would be astonished to hear, as formation. Then there is another I was, the number of petty cases. matter on which I should like to take Judicial and criminal, decided by them. . a minute. One hon. Member, Shri- For the nine months ending 31st of mati Renu Chakravartty spoke about December 1952, the cases which were trade unions and all that. That is disposed of by these panchayats were very nice. I can understand the ri^ht 2.30.000. Now manv of them were to form trade unions and the right to cases*which were settled by compro . strike. mise: but even then the figures are astonishing. 94 per cent, of the de Mr. Deputy-Soeaker: I suppose we cisions were accepted—r»o appeal, no have spent fifteen minutes over the revision, nothing. Revisions were Bill earlier in the iay. I will, there filed on verv large and general grounds fore apply the guillocins at 7-15 ins in six per cent, cases. They were syc- ' tead of 7. cessful only in two per cent. In four per cent, of the cases the magistrates Dr. Katju: So far as the trade and the civil officers said it was quite : unions are concerned, you have the all right. Please see the result. Out capital on the one side, the n’anage- of 2.30.000 cases 98 per cent, ludg- ment. the millowners, you have the ments stood. They were decided by labour on the other. The State is these panchayats whose members there as the arbiter to see that there were not educated, but people living in is fairplay and to mediate and settle the villages. There was no question ■ disputes. So far as the Government of hide-bound rules of evidence or and its employees are concerned-- hide-bound nrocedure. Lawyers were my hon. colleague the Deputj’ Minis not. there to assist them and they ter has already dealt with the big did the whole thing. That is p ^ o f • question—we are not actuat^ by any positive that if you associate people -profit motives. The capitalist is and if the people begin to think that actuated by profit motives: we are they are administering justice them not. We are representing the whole selves, then it succeeds, I do hope that rpeople. So, bringing that analogy this will appeal to all parts of India into consideration is not very useful. and it is a matter for great gratifica T wantedi to say iust one or two tion that the example set by the Uttar -words about the, administration of Pradesh has already been followed by many provinces. I do hope that else justice and then I would have finished. where also this will prove successful. Shii K. K. Basu: There is no iustiae *to be administered. Finally, there was something said Dr. Katjn: My hon. friend says about passports. Now, passoort is not theretis no justice to be administer'^H, something like a matter of funda If there is no iustice he would not mental right. That was wrongly put. have been h 6re. But the general Evprv Government is entitled to see complaint is that iustice is dilatory, • which are the persons who go out. is expensive and what not. Tt is a And I shall be auite frank about it very familiar complaint. But I should What I, want is that there should be like to place before the House one re complete sincerity about this matter, cent piece of news vhioh has appear complete frankness about this matter. ed in the newspapers, and which I am If you want to go for any purpose, say. ♦sure will please the House as a whole. .somebody is ill, you can go and have I plead strongly for the association of the treatment. But if you can go the people in the administration of for treatment, suppose one is suffer justice. Most of the troubles from ing from appendicitis,—the sea voyage which v/e are suffering is due to the or the air journey gets you rid of fact that people do not think lhat the appendicitis and brings comolete the law courts are their law courts, health.— and then vou go to a Peace that the nolice station is their police Conference in Vienna or Timbuctoo station. They think it is something or Brisbane and wander about the fcTeicn and that they are unler no whole world, then I say it is not compulsion to render any assistance, to frankness. (An Hon. Member: And go and give true evidence. Now thp Coronation). We do not want what I want to bring to the notice of people to go out to bring the Govern^- tliie House is that in Uttar Pradesh, ment into contempt. (Interruption), 3427 Demands for Grants 31 MARCH 1953 Demands for Grants 3428 We do not want people to go out Mercantile Corporation four months and sabotage the Government here. after...... Several Hon. Members: No. Dr. ^ tju : That case is under con sideration. Shri H. N. Mukerjee (C alcu tta- North East): Be free and frank. Mr. Depnty-Speafcer: I shall first put all the cut motions on the Demands for Dr. KatJu: That is all that I have the Ministry of Home Affairs to the to say. But before I sit down I vote of the House. would like to answer to an appeal which was made to me by two Mem The cut motions were negatived. bers. Both of them have gone away Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The question and therefore it is really not neces is: sary. I was asked to express regret for something which has happened in “That the respective sums not Delhi. What I wanted to say was if exceeding the amounts shown in I had the least consciousness of hav the third column of the Order ing done something improper myself Paper in respect of Demands Nos. I would have been the first person to 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58 and 127 be express regret. granted to the President to com plete the sums necessa^ to defr^ Shri Chattopadhyaya: You could the charges which will come in never be capable of doing it. course of payment during the year Shri Algu Rai Shastri: Because he ending the 31st day of March, 1954 never does wrong. in respect of the corresponding heads of Demands entered in the Dr. Katju: I am always careful second column thereof.” about it. Some hon. Member read out an editorial from the Hindu that The motion was adopted. ‘the Home Minister should have ex Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Now, I shall pressed regret’. What for? What put all the cut motions on the Demands have I done? People go and they are alleged to be arrested by a for the Ministry of States to the vote Magistrate. That is a matter for of the House. trial. If they are arrested by a The cut motions were negatived. Magistrate it seems to be quite all right. The Supreme Court did not Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The question go into that matter. It went into an other matter. As I said the other day, picture to yourself. Lawyers are “That the respective sums not there, eminent barristers, vakils, dis exceeding the amounts shown in tinguished accused, both lawyers, bar the third column of the Order risters, etc., and the Magistrate is Paper in respect of Demands Nos. there, and the trial takes place in 88, 89, 90, 91, 92, 93, 94, 95 and 135 jail. Everybody knows where they be granted to the President to have come from, where they are going complete the sums necessary to back. And they say, ‘Please adjourn defray the charges which will the case’. If thiey had said to the come in course of pajrment during Magistrate, ‘We want to go out’, the the year ending the 31st day of Magistrate would have said. ‘Go out’. They did not want to. And the Ma March, 1954, in respect o f the gistrate forgot to write the three corresponding heads of Demands words. I gather from the newspapers entered in the second column that a distinguished friend of mine, thereof.” one of the persons concerned, had actually offered to go to jail, himself. The motion was adopted. He did not want to remain out. That [The motions for Demands for Grants is what the newspapers said. What which were adopted by the House are am I to express regret for? If I reproduced below.—Ed. of P. P.] begin to express regret on everything, good, bad or indifferent. then my D em and No. 52—M in is t r y of H o m e regret would become valueless. I A ffa ir s should express regret when there is something genuine behind it and it “That a sum not exceeding Rs. carries some sense. 1,17,43,000 be granted to the Pre sident to complete the sum necess I would ask the House to pass ary to defray the charges which these Demands with acclamation. will come in -course of payment during the year ending the 31st Shri Sarangadhar Das: My question day of March, 1954, in respect of has not been answered, about the ‘Ministry of Home AflFairs*.” 30 PSD 3429 Demands for Grants 31 MARCH 1953 Demands for Grants 343® D e m an d N o , 53— C abinet D em an d N o 127— C a pita l O u tl a y of the M in is t r y of H o m e A f f a ir s “That a sum not exceeding Rs. 21.88.000 be granted to the Presi “ That a sum not exceeding Rs. dent to complete the sum neces sary to delraythe charges which 26.28.000 be granted to the Presi dent to complete the sum neces mil come in course of pajmient sary to defray the charges which during the year ending the 31st will come in course of payment day of March, 1954,-in respect of during the year ending the 31st •Cabinet*.” day of March, 1954, in respect of D em an d N o . 54—D elh i ‘Capital Outlay of the Ministry of Home Affairs’.” “That a sum not exceeding Rs. 1.38.58.000 .be granted to the Presi D em and N o . 88— M in is t r y of S tates dent to complete the sum necess ary to defray the charges which “ That a sum not exceeding Rs. wfll come in course of payment 10.63.000 be granted to the Presi during the year ending the 31st dent to complete the sum neces day of March. 1954. in respect of sary to defray the charges which ‘Delhi*.” will come in course of payment during the year ending the 31st day of March, 1954, in respect of D em an d N o . 55—P olic e ‘Ministry of States’.” “ That a sum not exceeding Rs. 63.37.000 be granted to the Presi- - D em and No . 89— P r iv y P u r s e s and dent to complete the sum neces A l lo w a n c e s of Indian R u le r s sary to defray the charges which will come in course of payment “ That a sum not exceeding Rs. during the year ending the 31st 1.92.000 be granted to the Presi day of March, 1954. in respect of dent to complete the sum necessary Tolice\” to defray the charges which will come in course of payment during D em and No. 56— C ensus the year ending the 31st day of March. 1954, in respect of ‘Privy “ That a sum not exceeding Rs. Purses and Allowances of Indian 9.62.000 be granted to the Presi Rulers*.’* dent to complete the sum neces sary to defray the charges which D em an d No. 90— Kutch will come in course of payment d u i^ g the year ending the 31st “That a sum not exceeding Ra. day of March, 1954, in respect of 1.01.83.000 be granted to the Presi ‘Census* dent to complete the sum necess ary to defray the charges which D e m a n d No. 57— M iscellaneous De will come in course of payment p a r t m e n t s AND E x pe n d itu r e und er during the year ending the 31st th e M i n is t r y o f H o m e A ff a ir s day of March, 1954, in respect of ‘Kutch’.” “ That a sum not exceeding Rs. TTl.15,000 be granted to the Presi D em an d No. 91— B il a s pu r dent to complete the sum neces sary to defray the charges which “ That a sum not exceeding Rs. will come in course of najmnent 23.43.000 be granted to the Presi during the year ending the 31st dent to complete the sum neces dav of March, 1Q54. in respect of sary to defray the charges which ‘Miscellaneous Denartments and will come in course of payment Expenditure under the Ministry during the year ending the 31st of Home Affairs’.*’ dav of March, 1954, in respect of ‘Bilaspur’.” ’) em an d N o . 58— A n da m an and N ico baf I slands D em and No. 92— M a n ipu r “ That a sum- not Gxceedirs? Rs. “ That a sum not exceeding Rs. t.fil .29.000 be granted to the Presi 58.19.000 be granted to the Pf*ssi- dent to comolete the sum ne.-ess- dent to complete the sum necess frrv to defray the charges which ary to defray the charges which will come in course of navment v/ill come in course of pajrment during the year ending the 31 during the year ending the 31st dav of March. 1954. in resnect of dav of March, 1954, in respect of ‘Andaman and Nicobar Islands*,** ‘Manipur*.** 3431 Demands for Grants 31 MARCH 1953 Demands for Grants 3432 D em an d N o . 93— T r ip u r a dent to complete the sum necess “ That a sum not exceeding Rs. ary to defray the charges which 1.11.22.000 be granted to the Pre will come in course of pajrment sident to complete the sum necess during the year ending the 31st ary to defray the charges which day of March, 1954, in respect of will come in course of payment ‘Miscellaneous Expenditure under during the year ending the 31st the Ministry of States’.” day of March, 1954, in respect of ‘Tripura’.” Demand No. 135— Capital Outlay D em and N o . 94— R e la tio n s w it h OF the Ministry of S t a t e s S tates “That a sum not exceeding Rs. “That a sum not exceeding Rs. 56.95.000 be granted to the Presi 3,67,35,000 be granted to the Presi dent to complete the sum necess dent to complete the sum necess ary to defray the charges which ary to defray the charges which will come in course of payment will come in course of payment during the year ending the 31st during the year ending the 31st day of March, 1954, in respect of day of March. 1954, in respect of ‘Relations with States* ” ‘Capital Outlay of the Ministry of States’.” D em and N o . 95— M iscellaneous E x penditure UNDER the M in is t r y op S tates The House then adjourned till Two “That a sum not exceeding Rs. of the Clock on Wednesday, the 1st 54.66.000 be granted to the Presi April, 1953.!W ^ ^ f^'HjTl ^ PhdHY I ^ WIT ^al ^ I |IT I ^ 1^' ^l»fl 4fndV ^ ^ ^+dT ^ I wm ^ ^nrr< to r i * %f%?r ^ 5FT ^TtT ^ I f% f^TWlf ^ I ^ ^ ^ |TT ^ ^ w r Vr ^Tr?: |', f^ 'ft ^