G€Tl€ L865 P.O. Box 1305 Oak View. Calif. Jazzletter 93022 November 1987 Vol.6 No. t 1

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Of Typos and Ojai the best anywhere. Browsing there is the best game in town. The struggle to eliminate typographical and spelling errors Oak View is a smaller town on the road between Ventura and from copy is without end. It has been eased by the computer, Ojai. We live closer to Oak View than to Ojai, and it occurred to which will catch major spelling mistakes, but the computer thus me that it would be more convenient to operate out ofthere than far cannot detect whether you wrote two when you meant too or the Ojai post office. And the Oak View staff and the postmaster, to, or there when you meant their, or here for hear. whose name by the way is Burt Reynolds, were wonderfully Sometimes the errors are small —- and not always, one helpful, so I moved the mailing to Oak View. But we didn’t move. suspects, accidental. In my newspaper days, we were reasonably , When last month I made up the renewal form, I told my certain that typographers made certain slips on purpose, because typesetter to just pick up the logo. He did, all right: the old one, some of them occurred time after time, and on newspaper after with the Ojai address. Which, fortunately, is still valid. But I newspaper. Little things like leaving the o out ofcount. In the old didn’t notice this massively obvious error until the entire issue days, the people on the sports pages were diligent indeed in the had been mailed. proof-reading hockey stories because of what the linotype boys The fact is that both addresses are operative. I prefer the Oak could do with the word puck. Some papers banned the word, View CA 93022 address. But ifsome ofthe mail goes to Ojai, well, which must have made it awkward for anyone covering hockey. after all, to heir is human. Curiously enough, some of the errors happen in large type faces, and still slip past proof-readers. When I was music critic of the Louisville Times, my opposite number at the Courier-Journal Letter of the Month -- the papers had the same owner — wrote a review on a performance by some singer whose name l’ve forgotten, to which T0 the Editor ‘ a copy editor attached the two-column headline Madame So- Dartmouth Alumni Society Magazine and-So Gives Charming Recital. The problem was that, by Your recent cover story on Jon Appletonwould seem to contain accident or otherwise, the i got left out of recital. It turned up in some jarring elements, particularly at a time when Dartmouth’s the paper. ' new president is emphagizing the importance of a liberal arts Sometimes errors are small. almost invisible, yet of education. _ _ - i considerable consequence. Singers and the Song is now out, and Never have I read such a gleeful account of people losing all those who ordered copies should have received them by now. employment, pianos disappearing from the American scene, If you haven’t or received an incorrect numbers of copies, please orchestras and bands disintegrating, and virtuosity rendered let me know. The book was proof-read about fifteen times. I still “meaningless”! And one of Appleton’s students writes, “You found two typos in it. A more significant error is that I said Hugo come out of his course wondering how Your Cheatin’ Heart Freidhofer’s scores were now at the University of Utah. They’re sounds on bagpipm.” What a wonderful culmination for a not. They're at Brigham Young University. I suppose I could musical education at Dartmouth College. drop a note to the University of Utah, telling them, “Ifyou get any Appleton concluded his article by saying that “educators must calls about. . . ” No, that wouldn’t be too cool. realize that the major difference between music today and that of Forgive me, please, those typos that creep into the Jazzletter. the last three centuries is that amateur composers have Which brings us to a goofthat occurred last month. A number unprecedented opportunities”and “musical technology has made of people have asked where Ojai is, and whether we had moved the search for virtuosity meaningless (who cares how fast and away to someplace else called Oak View. flawlessly you can play a keyboard instrument when a computer Ventura, California, is about seventy miles up the coast from can do it better?)." Putting aside the unforgiveable arrogance of (which, if you look at the map, means west of) Los Angeles. The these silly statements, one must recognize the attitude of the Ojai Valley is about eleven miles inland, due north - from amateur (and that of the punk and hard-rock genre) -—fast and Ventura. The town of Ojai, which has about six thousand loud make music better. residents, is at the center of it, surrounded by a great rim of Are we about to stop going to concerts to hear people like mountains which, during the winterrains, sometimes get snow on l-Ieifetz or Perlman give their interpretation of a musical work them. It lasts a few days at most, but it’s gorgeous while it does. because a computer can play itfaster?Three hundred years ofthe The valley is pretty, and peaceful, and the err — pardon me, air — development of the art of music is dismissed with the statement isclean. that “virtuosity is meaningless.” i S , I said in an early Jazzletter that it was a dull town, and boy did I And Appleton laments that our colleges do not provide hear about it locally. It is if anything even7d'uller nowitghan it was “electric” guitar lessons, on what he calls one of the “instruments then, despite an influx of movie people who keep quietly to of our time”. It should be pointed out that the “electric” guitar is themselves, as I do. lt’s a nice place to live, but who’d want to visit played the same as the acoustic guitar and if one aspires to play there? There is a festival of avant-garde classical music in May, like Segovia, electrification can't take the place of years of which attracts the likes of Pierre Boulez. It’s cultural glory is instruction and practice. Bart's Bookstore, an outdoor used-book emporium that is one of One personal asidejnto musical mathematics. It seems only 2 ,.) 5?. at I/»’.i,.¥€'.; .t_..».‘! 1;; _“>§i“l{3 j§e§jterday‘(a§tually§§ was 1938) that Glenn Miller tried to talk me suburban good looksstl3at§rnf%1l§~lead you to underestimate hi: iiito studyinggarringing and composition with Joseph More important, he aagf "and eager mind and a range of Schillinger Q7”arrive_d%in_New York annotgrcigthat he ’ z __ ___H,g ____,_ . .. j, _- W _;i;;'; -_ —_ ___ §9.1J!!I!€!!1S1.Qf.§l.!bieG£ rnatter that borders on the miraculous. eainduse nu'in‘61=?§i‘5 write better fugues than Bach. (The world Granted there is a staff in the background, providing him with has yet to hear one.) , who was not careless with a notes on the people he is to interview and the subjects to be bU¢l<. Offered t0 pay for our lessons if Ax_el§tordal_1la_ndrl{would___ __jJdis_cus_se,d_. _But_eygen so his comprehension of the material, his augment our arrangiiigabilityby studying with the man. AX and ability to dig intoithe subject at hand -— whether with an actor or l said no thanks, Tommy’s band didn’t seem to suffer, and Glenn an athlete, a novelist, the secretary of state or the chairman of a Millsrfsbiggestinstmm¢.nta..1s.w§s@writt.~=.I1!n/ musicianstawhen senate committee — and his ability to follow it when the a Sqlifiw i conversation takes unexpected swerves, are amazing. He seems ‘ Apbleten,¢@rnp1éte1i*igfi§:¢$.th¢ié1;‘1fnft<:i@i=>.fiaiihlcfiiiifituy to:]'§n_o*wi'sports and literature as thoroughly as he does politics 1a syhttissillef 1’! ,db¢s=i?tw¢ik andjitheater and science. He’ll discuss a Supreme Court ruling ‘hit was/Lifiieiéliiéééf-‘*{i1! <,»‘![¢.<1i¢€ii§i1l? with the understanding in detail thatihe brings to a conversation diligéiiiljt’i§Q.iiii;§Qi,'l;s1fiqtflét.E2§t§2®i%il1?¢£i>ll§2§ about, say, the politics of oil. And he must spend all his waking "Be“‘i?ti“’t”B" ‘F§§$i.n§.?Yi¢ti;§fi§¥ hours boning up for the interviews he is about to do, four or five 29:? cg: of them in a row, on all manner of subjects, and with the same fir? ' -1 ‘go "H" orl£ar"J"‘6‘me Kérnf‘ " "“ astonishing command. i w.O 5j§%~ wnfigz-:8Resat we eifili 1.1]! I Hire eta} Recently he interviewed William Styron. As he got into iiféifli 5'r§§!§u writ lime: 10:25 aft?-sirgaam sill: see:-r elements of style in Styron’s novels, it was obvious that he knew " .b2ii:s;".': :i;'"i St_yron’s work. Assuredly Rose was not working from cue cards >521’? iaitmg E .e=1§1:~.aeqo am; aa;-3*2l_:;'~"":i;.*;-. =r;:-:-<5 Bari? 5% ‘;wi'§ prepared just (before air time by a research assistant. And when theyibotfi,got into the letters of Flaubert, one had the impression »tFhe~'~>lrrs0rnr1la@’9 €m(m:j_ thefntoo.The samejsort ofunderstanding was Musicians, by the nature of the worléifitfeie-ti ih'r$i1rgs.*l_r’i""tih‘i-:evidfentf .aiifinterv,iewi_withSaiuiljl Bellow; and another with early days oftelevision, at least in major cities, you could usually Réiifi-9fidiBurr-;T.Whie'ni Biirr. whohises. ¥.li¢fi1’-setjqnte the stumble on something to watch wli you got back hogme or to §“.*?l¢¢f iif §'.°5i¢$J Kosfi We"!.1ié,h‘ Wi¥l1»hiK1?- ./.\ -’<1i$Q¥!§§§°1?.i Wltllé; the hotel.. Old movies wfihiftiih t‘5;?ef"aZi1¢it£@y<"§i‘s'éS‘elda1?é John,“Ke,nnet_h_ Galbraith’ _r§yealed' ,1n‘ot,7‘onlyh1ithie§ depthsfpifv chance on a piece of good trash such as Casablancavto,-yyatr;h,for_ Géllfiflithls P¢Y¢¢P3iOiis1but..o’{RoseTs,asw¢1i."wh¢in lhey‘Qt,aill;ed of. 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founder and still owner of the apparently indestructible Village pessimistic — about a resurgence ofjazz that he sees happening. Vanguard, the Greenwich Village cellar nightclub that has been One of his recent Sunday Morning pieces had been on exactly providing a bandstand for jazzmen since the l930s. He has done that. ' J pieces on discjockey Jonathan Schwartz and pioneerjazz record “Do you really think there's a resurgence? Or are we just producer John Hammond. i succumbing to a fit of wishful thinking?” How did Billy’s association with the show come about‘? “They “Oh yes,” he said. “There are a lot of things which have come did a profile of me. The person who wanted it done was Robert into being in the twenty or twenty-five years ofjazz instruction, Northshield, the show‘s producer. Shad Northshield is in my when you have all the mistakes that have been made by all of us opinion a genius. He created Sunday Morning. He thought of trying to teach jazz — whether you’re talking Berklee, North those nature segments at the end of the show. He is just a Texas State, Jamie Abersol, me, Jazzmobile. We’ve learned from marvelously creative producer. lt was his view, and Kuralt the experience. ln the process of doing it, we have created a large concurred, that this should be a magazine show that gave equal body of people who are knowledgeable about the music. There emphasis in whatever it did. If you’re doing something on jazz, are holes in their knowledge. But they know what the music you don’t give that any less time and production values than you sounds like, they know what’s good about it. Many ofthe people would an exhibition at the Metropolitan Museum of Art. When have gone to jazz camps, have studied privately, and they have Valdimirj Horowitz went to Russia, we took our heavyweight added to this ever increasing group who understand what the people and did a major study of thisworld-class artist who was music is about. This, compared to rock groups and rock fans, is a retuming to his native country. _So that's the kind of thing small group. But compared to the former jazz audience, it’s a Northshield did. He did this piece on me. Peter Levinson -— ” growing group. You’ve got this, and the availability ofjazz -— or Peter Levinson is a publicist, probably the best known in thejazz whatever passes forjazz — on radio, with two hundred and some O field. “Peter told him, ‘You really should use Billy on some of National Public Radio stations playing whatever they calljazz all these things. You don't have anybody doingjazz at the moment.’ over the country. You‘ve got the jazz festivals presenting He knew Shad is a jazz fan. Shad asked me and l of course said whatever they call jazz all over the world. You‘ve got the books, yes, and l’ve been doing it ever since.” such as the fake books, that have been put together. All these Kuralt too, Billy said, is ajazz fan, and in the folksy manner in things have contributed to a large body of players and listeners which he conceals a superb joumalistic mind, he will play the who are not satisfied with New Age music, or whatever is being uninformed straight man in his questions, allowing Billy to give given to them. They want something more. They don’t him the inside on a story. Kuralt takes the role ofthe lay listener. necessarily know what it is, but they are a part ofthe people who He casts himself as the audience. look at the Sunday Morning show, who listen to NPR, who are Billy spoke with warmth about his associates in the show, buying up the reissues of the cutouts of the things they’ve heard including Bob Shattuck who got an Emmy for editing the piece about either in ajazz class or wherever else they heard it. Or they they did on Quincy Jones. “Brett Alexander, who produces the read a news piece and say, ‘Oh, Billy Taylor said he was in Russia segments, is a knowledgeable writer, who knows a lot about and found out about this guy who plays tenor. Let me check..him sports, a lot about'jazz, a lot about popular music. He used to out.’ So it’s not only in this country, where things are slower to be write for the New York Post and a lot of magazines. As a changed, it’s going on in Russia, in South America, in Singapore. non-musician, he’d keep me from being too technical or too This year l’ve been to Hawaii, South America, Russia, Australia, inside. He’d say,.‘Well, hey, they won‘t know what you’re talking and I-long Kong. That’s just this year. Prior to that, the jazz about if you say Bird, why don’t you just say Charlie Parker?’ festival in Singapore. . ." V Things like that.” “There’s a jazz festival in Singapore?” . “Alas, they still won’t know what you’re talking about,” I said. “Absolutely. There‘s more and more of them everywhere. The Billy laughed. “A classic example of the kind of overall Moderm Jazz Quartet, Betty Carter, Jimmy Owens, Jimmy O production values Shad Northshield would give me is the piece I Heath, Roland Hanna and myself were part of a newly did on . When we finished the piece, Shad looked at it established festival in South America. There’s a lot of growth, and said, ‘Well all the information is here, but when Basie played and it’s healthy.” . the piano, there was a lot of space in it. We don’t have enough “Do you seejazz becoming then a world language? It started as space in this piece.’ So he made it longer, spread it out a little, a New Orleans language but now seems to be becoming — with made it flow, changed the whole pacing.’ You don’t get that from the Japanese players and the European players — an producers! That‘s hard to come by, man!” , intemational language.” ' A significant thing about the Taylor portraits on Sunday “Yes, although it seems to be necessary for them to make some Morning is that he is notpreaching to the converted. One of the sort of contact with America to develop fully. ln Russia, l met undiscussed tragedies of the contemporary American culture is lgorButman, who is a tenor player about nineteen now studying its ghettoization —jazz radio for thejazz fans, rock radio for the at Berklee. Paquito de Rivera is from Cuba, and Adam rock fans, and even subdivisions of it for the fans of those Makowicz from Poland. Each one of them said essentially the subdivisions, country radio for the country fans, and classical same thing I want to come to America because l’ve done about as music for the classical fans. But Billy’s work at CBS goes to much as l can here. Paquito was with one of the world’s greatest millions of people who are not necessarily even music lovers, fusion bands, lrakere. One of the damnedest bands l ever heard much lessjazz fans, and, yes, he confirmed, “It’s very satisfying to in my life. They were playing really good music, any way you me when somebody comes up and shakes my hand and says they want to cut it. But he said, ‘Hey, 1 want to get here and play with enjoyed a piece on So-and-So, and they'd never thought about it these great American players, so l can grow asea musician.’ And before, but now they_were interested and they were going to he has. This guy is a totally different musician now than when I listen.” ' first heard him in lrakere. Adam Makowicz had all the facility in Billy is optimistic -— it is hard to imagine him ever being the world, he could get over that piano. But now that he’s been 7 H

here and played with Marc Johnson and other ood pla ers he's .,i' _,,i§,__._'_ .,. .. ~;, .q,_,1._,_.,,g..,§i ._,,, »;~ gross t.l.ie.sr.a.v¢ an§iiet..\£ers1i,lie¢a.n’1, writ »‘re‘:il1y‘swi-ii'g’i‘ng3 H’e’s ‘speakingthe jazz“l‘a_rr'g’uage’ withl?'il;_i,‘aci:ent. 1:. ~'* é4."::J‘% .1.::,=i,‘!».ir.- .:.!_:i1¢= ;._,: IT. FllIl§%¥lZlr Ont‘:fib-4-0<\Q The emotion‘ir’i’ his playinghas expanded, heir the ilepth. aii<1;!?¥i¥%2iI2t§!istEs§§",~F%8¥B£9§¢<¥¥lll§l};?.=~~nt.°‘”'p:i, elaramssdis"13-253-WI And the same thing is going“ to -happen; Ito’ ,yoiihig?‘-Igor ‘OfWither‘es;=iisia-iatsgemgéeeli. s2§iiiu§s§r¢r=.eIi!.!i¢ai.as=s>=Ptsf gettiifgithe apieceon gdspfel ontlie thee .fliiiiss{'hav;¢.v=1.1is1i.t¥@a¢l4h¢¥er¢,.f;iiig"; old,jbI_a_fufis'.iAr%ii§tfQiié;sti€11iJ” il1¢1i;li¢h.eiideli.‘$‘is§P1°.§<.B§-"°-4‘. music.” ' dam» B‘fiiihy;.Bé§is5ii».iR¢i1.Al1éa§.;lii£Eéi<§¢¥h?91iighi,~*fi 'said,*“tIi‘at“1iftIiiswere’ nbt SO, 'i.vhi_ ;@ti<2ir»'siis'i'1=is1s3¢§1.it‘di=1~1iv'é'%1ni1'irifluéniiiiii>,¢lr1i>.<.i*?.~irt.?I‘=i1:Ti aw»: *1“i>'ve heard paopie put down ‘the Pdrg_i"and Bfe'.is;s'core,” I said; How could I leave ougi Wilsgn?<{:l§iii(,_cpi;Id,§,_“l§§Y¢_011! “Then Iysaw Todd Duncan, who originatedgtheirole of_Porgy.o‘n 3l‘5§3.W%iy;.‘iin' =1n‘“i'nt¢i‘Yi¢“'i ‘I '.8il=$$' "i¢’%'¢"i‘l¢Té!11'f,‘?1i!fiY bla.¢k HankJpis=§?.u@wQauliglfiéfé¢.°\1.ld I afierssiagérsiin thosedays.’ Todd Duncan said it is nonsense, Iehvébitiésfiéléi§9Il§§.5f§§l1?§lZll§8P19eil§'139.lY9§?.‘?P?!ali!1g9"#1. that down,’ f‘t'Iii's is "operéi;fit’s ' a’, bif‘oad°emotional éiffersniiézeieé.Iénéhwfis i ‘_ai':.'*‘~E¢wewas3' i=1Joins1 =._i his most_=_\:=! Warsv.\I11iiiié..i6séi1i:95 rsaiflsait what l-ll-‘E-J§%%.’ experience. iHe“real,Iy‘d‘efended‘t‘lrfat"jscore; can sayfl vi<3¢é.éi1e£3!i?*sLé§z9iet29fi tel‘. guess, 'tlr‘5t’il‘ Geo*r‘géiGershwiii as/21" comriosercannotuse lfiieeietss i,l§§§§5Q?§§§§§?§9§§fFs89Esex the black experience as a subject for an opera,‘th’én youihadjbeiter and say,‘ he id so muchlAntTthem s all these guys who imitate

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him. But that leaves out a whole bunch of other guys who were said, ‘Man, that’s cocktail music, that’s not jazz.’ And I used to doing things that are ultimately going to be as important to the tell Bill, ‘You come along a few years later and play the same overall vocabulary as whatever this great giant did. gorgeous things I enjoyed playing. and people said, ‘That’s great “So. It’s a way of playing and it’s a repertory of pieces which art!’ I said, ‘-You’re standing on my shoulders,’ and he’d laugh and defines that way of playing. And I really am delighted that that say, ‘Well you have to stand on somebody‘s.’ Bill’s creativity in simple definition is one that can be used by people. I'm not that context was undeniable. He was one of my favorite artists. talking about raised ninths and contrapuntal playing and this “You know, I gave Bill his first major television show. In I958, scale or that scale and all that. If you want to study music, fine. I was musical director of a show called The Subject ls Jazz on But to me, some things can be defined in such a way that it’s National Educational Television, which was the predecessor to useful in moving from this plane of knowledge to a higher level of PBS. We were working out ofstudio 8-H in New York, and I was knowledge. And that‘s all a definition is — a tool. And we have told by the producers at the end of the thirteen weeks that we needed one that’s helpful to the layman.” ~ needed to make a prediction: where isjazz going? I said, ‘There’s a “You haven’t used the word ‘improvisation’ once in the young man who’s just recorded a piece written by a friend of definition.” mine. I’m not good at predicting, but I really believe that this is “No, and that’s deliberate. I think too much emphasis is placed one of the directions that jazz is going. George Russell has just on the spontaneous creativity that we call improvisation. Louis written this piece called Billy the Kidand the soloist is Bill Evans.’ Armstrong played things which were set solos. Art Tatum too did And they said, ‘Who?’ I brought the record in and played it, and I things which were set solos. I've heard him do it. You can’t say said, ‘We don’t have sufficient time to rehearse a work of this that it wasn’t jazz and that it wasn’t swinging. And I heard Louis difficulty so why don’t we bring in the guys who did the record?’ Armstrong play. . . “ He sanga Louis Armstrong lick. “I‘ve heard We’ll keep our band on, and bring them, and blow the whole 9 him do that a million times, and those quarter notes swung every budget. It’s the last show anyway.’ They went for it. So we time. brought the band in and for some reason the drummer on the “If the New York Philharmonic plays Sophisticated Lady. record date couldn’t make the TV date. So Ed Thigpen. who was they’re playing jazz. They may be playing it badly, but they’re my drummer, read the son of a bitch at sight. I mean, sight read playing jazz.” - that son ofa bitch. And he played the hell out of it. He’s one ofthe “Now,” I said, “there’s an opposite side of the coin. Bill Evans damnedest musicians on earth.” made a recording of Danny Boy, which is an Irish tune. He plays We looked at our watches. It was almost one o’clock, time for two choruses of melody, he doesn’t play a thing that isn’t the Billy to leave for the airport and New York. We descended to the original theme. He plays it his way, of course, with his chord street, gave two attendants the tickets for our cars. They voicings. Do you call that jazz?” disappeared into the maw' of the hotel garage. “Absolutely.” V “Tell me about your kids,” I said. “H ow old are they? What are .“You know, Bill strongly emphasized the element of they doing?” improvisation in his definition of jazz, as does Dave Brubeck.“ “Casey is thirty-five now. He lives here in California. He works “I'm not de-emphasizing the improvisational aspects ofit in my with the Herman Miller furniture company, which makes what overall definition. The reason I stay away from it in my limited they call office environments. He’s in charge of their west-coast version of the definition is that it is too easyfor either a died-in- installations. My daughter Kim’s a lawyer in Washington D.C. the-wooljazz fan or a non-jazz fan to get confused and say, ‘O.I(., She is thirty. She graduated top of her class at Yale. She’s kind of ifwhat this guy is playing is not new, absolutely different, it is not the family brain. She went to Washington and had everything jazz.‘ That's the reason with students, I stay away from it. going for her: she‘s a black woman, so she was immediately Whenever I make a statement like this, I don’t talk about snapped up.” Q improvisation. “A few years ago she’d have been dead on both counts.” “For instance, the way that Dizzy Gillespie created some of his “Right! But that’s changed. They got two for one. She was songs, like Groovin’ High, where he took the basic harmony of hired immediately by a very prestigious firm in D.C. at agsalary Whispering, changed the harmony, changed the rhythm, and thatjust blew my mind. So she worked long enough to get a house added another melody. That’s a tradition, and it didn’t start with and a car, quit, and now she’s working for the public defender. bebop. Guys were doing that back in the ‘20s, ragtime players Teddi, my wife, was a model when I married her, but she decided were doing that. But that was one device that led to one kind of she wanted to be a mother, and she gave up all of that and she's improvisation, regardless of style. There are a lot of devices that been as good a mother as you could possibly ask for.” have to do with improvisation that are looked on as defining “ls that why you look so young?” what the music is, and that's wrong. The device ofreharmonizing. “ln the last few years l’ve been ableto concentrate on things The device of rhythmatizing something. Or making something a which are very exciting to me. Everything that I do -— radio, Latin rhythm. They may enhance somebody’s idea of the way to television, playing the piano, writing music — those are things present a given type of material. But the devices are just devices, that I enjoy doing. The combination ofthat and being married to they are not the essence of the music.” the same lady for forty-six years. .She’s to be congratulated on “What about ballads? You love ballads.” that, it’s her doing.” “Bill Evans and I used to laugh about this thing. He was my Billy’s car came up first, a rented Cadillac the shiny blue-gray neighbor in Riverdale for some time, you know. When I was shade ofa dolphin. He grinned. “One ofthe perks ofthejob.” We house pianist in Birdland, Bird would play Koka or something shook hands, and he got in and drove off on his way to Los like that, and then when Bird gave me a piano solo, I’d play Angeles Airport. I got into my car and followed him through the Laura. I’d play ballads every chance l got, because that was the carbon monoxide of Westwood. Westwood Walk indeed. _way I really expressed myself. And guys put me down for it, they Stan Kenton was right about Billy.