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Afghanistan Stay Or Go Kurt Volker: [0:01] ...illuminate some complex policy issues, giving different points of view equal and fair time and making sure that we try to take the partisanship out of the debate so we get to the real issues that underlie our options as a country. [0:14] Tonight's debate will focus on Afghanistan. America's been involved in Afghanistan for nearly 12 years. There's been remarkable progress in education, health care, women's rights, children, governance, the economy. And yet, there has come, at a cost of hundreds of billions of dollars, thousands of lives. The question remains, is it really sustainable? [0:37] We're now committed to a transition in Afghanistan, as President Obama said, ending America's war in Afghanistan by the end of 2014. But is Afghanistan ready? And what will happen when America leaves? On the other hand, would it really be any better if we stayed? [0:54] We have four distinguished panelists tonight representing four distinct perspectives on Afghanistan and US policy. We hope that their debate helps eliminate the challenges that we still face as a country. [1:05] Before introducing our moderator, allow me to introduce the man whose life and whose family has inspired the creation of this institute, the man who's dedicated his family and his career to national service, Senator John McCain. [applause] Senator John McClain: [1:22] Thank you very much, Kurt. I'd like to thank Jenna Lee, who's going to be our moderator here and our panelists, all of whom I have had the opportunity of knowing and interacting with over a number of years. [1:36] The last debate we had was on Syria and it got to be a very spirited and engaging debate. I anticipate this one to be, as well. This issue could not be more timely. The administration is going to finalize their commitments or agreements as to troop strength, as to missions, as to participation of our allies. There are a lot of very serious decisions that are looming, and they need to be explained and receive the support of the American people. [2:16] The first time I met President Karzai was in 2001 at the fall of Kabul, and he came out to Bagram, where Lindsey Graham and Joe Lieberman and I were. We've been going back three or four times a year ever since. We've watched it progress. Two steps forward and one step back. Sometimes, one step forward and two steps back. [2:42] We have four very highly qualified individuals here tonight. This debate, in my view, particularly when we're talking about the cost in American blood and treasure, is one that needs to be conducted, frankly, all over America. I'm very pleased that we are addressing this issue, particularly in this timely fashion. Jenna: [3:05] , I want to thank you for your participation. I never watch Fox, so... [laughter] Senator McCain: [3:10] Thank you very much. Thank you all for coming. [applause] Kurt: [3:19] As we saw, we have a number of guests from Afghanistan in the audience, and I understand that many more are watching online in Afghanistan. In fact, I heard a story that the Foreign Ministry put out a notice to say, "We encourage you to watch this." So for all of you watching here or elsewhere, welcome. [3:36] This is also being broadcast live on Arizona State University Television, and we have students at ASU watching. We encourage you to send in your questions as well for later in the debate. After the opening stage of the debate, there will opportunities for questions from the audience, so please do think about and prepare your questions. [3:52] Without any further ado, I'd be very pleased to introduce to you our moderator for the debate, Jenna Lee from Fox News. [applause] Jenna Lee: [4:04] Hi, everybody. Thank you so much for having me this evening. We've heard a lot about the panelists. We haven't met them yet, so I thought I would introduce them first, give a few opening remarks to start us off, and then we can get going. [4:17] Sitting in the hotseat for the Kagans, I hear. This is the Kagan chair because last time there was another Kagan here. This is Frederick Kagan. He is the Director of the Critical Threats Project at the American Enterprise Institute. In 2009, he served in Kabul, Afghanistan as part of General McChrystal's strategic assessment team. He's also been back in recent years as well to conduct research for Generals David Petraeus and John Allen. We thank him for his presence today. Kenneth Roth: [4:46] is next to him. He is the Executive Director of Human Rights Watch. As you know, this organization operates in about 90 countries around the world. They have a bureau in Afghanistan, where Ken has spent some time, so he'll share an interesting perspective for us tonight. [5:02] As will Steve Clemons...Oh, Steve Clemons is on the end. Seth. Seth G. Jones, not to be confused with Seth Jones the hockey player. Right, Seth? Just so we're clear on that. Seth G. Jones is Associate Director of the International Security and Defense Policy Center at the Rand Corporation. He has served as a plans officer and advisor to the commanding general of US Special Operation Forces, in Afghanistan, as well. [5:26] Finally, Steve, sorry about that. There you are. Steve Clemons, Editor-at-Large for "The Atlantic." He's also publisher of "The Washington Note." [5:38] Talking about war for me, I offer a little bit different perspective than a lot of moderators out there in that I haven't actually been to Afghanistan, although I have wanted to go. My grandfather was actually a war correspondent for the Associated Press during World War II, and his nickname was "Lucky Lee" because he never lost his typewriter. I can't imagine what it's like to cover a war with a typewriter, but he did. [6:05] I come at this from a little different perspective, and it's appropriate because of where we're at tonight. My husband is in the audience. He is a decorated Navy combat veteran, and when we met, he was serving as officer of a Navy SEAL team. I've watched him deploy. I have buried friends. War is personal. Policy is really personal. It's something that we should reflect upon a little bit tonight as we open up this conversation. [6:43] A couple things I just want to put out there for how long we've been in Afghanistan. We have actually been in Afghanistan longer than the Civil War, World War I, and World War II combined. It's the longest war that we've fought with an all volunteer force. We've spent more than a half trillion dollars in this war effort. [7:05] Right now, we have 66,000 troops at war, another spring fighting season yet to come. Interesting this week, a little news for again some more context. President Karzai this week made claims that some of our Special Forces are harassing and torturing and murdering local people, claims that are not substantiated by any evidence that is to be found at this time. [7:29] One counter-insurgency expert described this as post-withdrawal politics. As we know, we're aiming to withdraw in 2014. We all know the year. We don't know what that's going to look like yet. That leads us to the question, "Should we stay or should we go?" What is that going to look like? [7:49] We have two people up here who think we should stay, two that think we should go. They're divided right in the middle for ease of understanding of that, although they have very different reasons for why they think we should stay or should go. You might notice that they may debate themselves at certain times during this. [laughter] [8:09] It's quite a nuanced conversation. At the beginning, we're going to do three minutes of opening statements. They're going to give you their positions about why they think we should stay or why they think that we should go. We do have time on that. Three minutes. If they go over the three minutes, the Jaws music, like the Academy Awards, comes in. That was embarrassing, so we'll try not to let that happen. [laughs] [8:33] Fred, do you want to start us off? You believe that we should maintain a presence in Afghanistan. Why? Frederick Kagan: [8:40] The United States has vital national security interests in Afghanistan and in the outcome of the conflict. We need to do what is necessary to accomplish the mission which is involved in securing those interests. That means, therefore, that we will need to have a continued military presence in Afghanistan along the lines that the President has supported. [9:05] As we talk about the bipartisanship of this Institute, I can't think of anything more bipartisan than having someone from the American Enterprise Institute sitting here and largely defending President Obama's policy in Afghanistan against someone from "The Atlantic." [laughter] Frederick: [9:20] So bipartisanship does actually exist. It is a very nuanced conversation. It is a very complicated issue. We went into Afghanistan because it was a sanctuary for Al-Qaeda and Al-Qaeda used that sanctuary to attack us.
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