Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

TUESDAY, 14 SEPTEMBER 1976

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

385 Sub Judice Matters (14 SEPTEMBER 1976] Sub Judice Matters (b) in the case of a civil case in TUESDAY, 14 SEPTEMBER 1976 courts of law, from the time that case has been set down for trial or otherwise brought before the court. Mr. SPEAKER (Hon. J. E. H. Houghton, The provisions shall cease to have Redcliffe) read prayers and took the chair effect when the verdict and sentence at 11 a.m. have been announced or judgment given, but shall again have effect when notice SUB JUDICE MATTERS of appeal is given until the appeal has been decided. STATEMENT BY MR. SPEAKER At the same time I feel that the matter Mr. SPEAKER: Honourable members will of the sub judice rule is one which could recall that last week the question of the properly be referred by the House to the application of the sub judice rule arose in Committee of Privileges for an in-depth connection with three unrelated matters. Since investigation, particularly as it affects the then I have given considerable thought to House's basic right to the privilege of freedom this question and have come to the conclusion of speech. that the procedure at present followed in the House of Commons could be adopted in this PAPERS Parliament with advantage. The following papers were laid on the As honourable members know, it has been table:- the custom for many years, when notification Proclamation under the Fire Safety Act has been received that legal proceedings have 1974-1976. been instituted concerning a matter, for any reference to that subject, either in debate Orders in Council under- or in question, to be disallowed. The original The State Electricity Commission Acts, intention of this so-called "sub judice rule" 1937 to 1965. appears to have been to avoid Parliament Factories and Shops Act 1960-1975. setting itself up as an alternative forum Harbours Act 1955-1976. to a court of law. The practice seems to have developed lately for writs to be taken Regulations under- out in some civil cases which might take Fire Brigades Act 1964-1976. months to be set down for hearing by the Apprenticeship Act 1964-1974. court or even not be brought before the Co-operative Housing Societies Act 1958- court at all. In the meantime, because of 1974. the sub judice rule, members are debarred Auctioneers and Agents Act 1971-1975. from referring to any aspect of the matter­ yet the news media are able to write or com­ ment on it at will. This to me is a ridiculous SUB JUDICE MATTERS but at the same time a serious situation­ CURRUMBIN BIRD SANCTUARY endeavouring to make Parliament a "tame cat". Hon. R. J. HINZE (South Coast-Minister For the time being then I propose to for Local Government and Main Roads) (11.8 a.m.): Mr. Speaker, in view of your a.dop~ a procedure similar to that now opera­ tmg m the House of Commons and in some ruling in this Chamber last week and again other Australian Parliaments. This is- this morning about writs and sub judice matters and in view of letters to the editor, That subject to the discretion of the articles such as "Trust the Trust" and the Chair- famous article by the Leader of the Opposi­ (1) matters awaiting or under adju­ tion in which he professed to know something dication in all courts exercising a about everything when in fact he knows a criminal jurisdiction shall not be referred lot about nothing, perhaps it would be in to in any motion, debate or question to the public interest if I were to make a a Minister; and ministerial statement, giv~ng some of the (2) matters awaiting or under facts about the take-over of the Currumbin adjudication in a civil court shall not Bird Sanctuary. Therefore, I seek leave be referred to in any motion, debate of the House to make a ministerial statement. or question to a Minister from the time Mr. SPEAKER: Order! I rule the Minister that the case has been set down for to be out of order. This matter is before the trial or otherwise brought before the court, having been set down for hearing this court, but such matters may be referred Friday. to before such date unless it appears to the Chair that there is a real and substantial danger of prejudice to the RAID ON HIPPIE COMMUNITY AT trial of the case. CEDAR BAY These provisions shall have effect- Mr. AIKENS (Townsville South) (11.9 (a) in the case of a criminal case in a.m.): I give notice that tomorrow I will courts of law, from the moment the law move- is set in motion by a charge being made; "In view of the serious allegations being and publicised and statements being made by a 13 386 Law Reform Commission, &c. [14 SEPTEMBER 19761 Questions Upon Notice

section of the media and politically interes­ to amend the Law Reform Commission ted people, this House hold immediately Act 1968-1972 in certain particulars." a full and uninhibited debate on all aspects of what is known as the Cedar Bay drug Motion agreed to. affair, including the disgraceful exhibition in the Magistrates Court in Townsville"-- UNITED GRAND LODGE OF ANTIENT Mr. SPEAKER: Order! I must rule the FREE AND ACCEPTED MASONS honourable member's motion to be out of OF QUEENSLAND TRUSTEES ACT order. As this matter is of concern to AMENDMENT BILL all honourable members, before entering the Chamber I checked with the Police Depart­ INITIATION ment, which has advised that two criminal Hon. W. D. LICKISS (Mt. Coot-tha­ charges relating to this matter are to be heard Minister for Justice and Attorney-General): next Monday, 20 September, and two warrants I move- have been issued. Therefore, I must rule the motion to be out of order. "That leave be given to introduce a Bill to amend the United Grand Lodge of Mr. AIKENS: Mr. Speaker, because I hold Antient Free and Accepted Masons of you in high regard, I am reluctant to do Queensland Trustees Act of 1942 in cer­ this; however, I move- tain particulars; and that so much of the "That Mr. Speaker's ruling be disagreed Standing Orders relating to private Bills with." be suspended so as to enable the said Bill to be introduced and passed through all its Mr. SPEAKER: Order! I cannot accept stages as if it were a public Bill." that motion. Motion agreed to. PETITION AMENDMENT OF LIQUOR ACT QUESTIONS UPON NOTICE

~~· ELLIOIT (Cunningham) presented a 1. NuRSING HOME, WATERWORKS ROAD, petition from 17 6 electors of Queensland RED HILL praying that the Parliament of Queensland will amend the Liquor Act so as to allow Mr. Ahern for Mr. Young, pursuant to golf and bowls clubs to sell take-away notice, asked the Minister for Health- bottled liquor to their members. With reference to the proposed State Gov­ Petition read and received. ernment nursing home at Waterworks Road, Red Hill- ( 1) What is the present position with ELECTRICITY BILL this project? INITIATION (2) How many beds will be available? Hon. J. BJELKE-PETERSEN (Barambah­ (3) Will a number of beds be available Premier): I move- to the local residents? "That the House will, at its present sit­ ting, resolve itself into a Committee of ( 4) What other health services will be the Whole to consider introducing a Bill provided? to consolidat~ al!-d amend the law relating (5) When will it open to the public? to the orgamzation and regulation of the generation, transmission, distribution, supply and use of electricity in Queens­ Answer:- land and to matters of safety with respect {1 to 5) The honourable member will thereto; to amend the Public Service Act recall that in answer to his similar-type 1922-1973 in certain particulars and the question on 22 October 1975 I set out in City of Brisbane Act 1924--1974 in a cer­ considerable detail the proposals relating tain particular; and for connected to the establishment of a complex to purposes." accommodate intellectually handicapped Motion agreed to. infants requiring inpatient assessment and relief placement at Waterworks Road, Red Hill. LAW REFORM COMMISSION ACT AMENDMENT BILL This proposal is still in the planning stages. Whilst I did indicate in my earlier INITIATION answer that it was hoped that construction would commence early in the 1976-77 Hon. W. D. LICKISS (Mt. Coot-tha­ financial year, the specialist planning for Minister for Justice and Attorney-General): this complex has taken longer than orig­ I move- inally envisaged. I can assure the honour­ "That the House will, at its present sit­ able member that planning will continue ting, resolve itself into a Committee of and construction will commence as soon the Whole to consider introducing a Bill as adequate finance can be allocated. Questions Upon Notice [14 SEPTEMBER 1976] Questions Without Notice 387

2. KELVIN GROVE POLICE STATION (2) How much of this building has been leased to the Queensland Government Mr. Ahern for Mr. Young, pursuant to or its instrumentalities? notice, asked the Minister for Police- (3) What are these departments or (1) For what exact purpose is the Kel­ instrumentalities? vin Grove Police Station now being used? ( 4) How much office space is now (2) How many animals will be housed vacant in buildings in which the State there from time to time? Government, its instrumentalities, or the (3) How many police officers will be in S.G.I.O. have a proprietary interest? attendance from time to time? Answers:- ( 4) Will this be a centre that the local residents can turn to for assistance in (1) The S.G.I.O. has no proprietary inter­ times of emergency? est in the Commercial Union Assurance Co. of Australia Ltd. building at 444 Queen Street, Brisbane. The Public Curator has Answers:- a one-third interest in this building. ( I) It will serve as the permanent head­ (2) Other than one-third of the building quarters of the Metropolitan Dog Squad which the Public Curator Office will occupy, and be used for purposes associated with I am informed that no other part of the the maintenance and training of police building has been leased to the Queensland dogs. Government or its instrumentalities. (2) The residence associated with the (3) See answer to (2). former Kelvin Grove Police Station is occupied by a member of the dog unit and (4) The S.G.I.O. has 5,336.6 sq. metres his family. The dog handled by this of office space vacant and available for member is kennelled on the premises. lease. I am informed that certain office space is vacant in State Government build­ (3) This will vary in accordance with ings but all of this has been allocated to its use as a dog unit headquarters. various departments for occupation as soon (4) Yes. Every police officer is avail­ as it is made ready. The actual area of able for service in an emergency. such space cannot be readily calculated.

3. OFFICIAL AEROPLANE QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE Mr. Houston, pursuant to notice, asked the BUILDING SOCIETY INTEREST RATES Deputy Premier and Treasurer- Mr. BURNS: I ask the Deputy Premier (1) Was any money expended during and Treasurer: Have any meetings been 1975-76 from Consolidated Revenue or any held in the last two months to discuss, or other fund towards the purchase of a have any alterations been made to, the replacement or second State Government interest rates that building societies are per­ aircraft? mitted to charge on funds loaned by the (2) If so, how much money was ex­ societies or to pay on moneys borrowed pended, to whom was it paid and for what by the societies? Have there been any dis­ purpose? cussions on, or alterations to, such interest rates? Answer:- Mr. KNOX: If there had been any dis­ (l and 2) Yes. The figure of expendi­ cussions, I would not disclose them to ture in 1975-76 towards replacement of the House. I think the Leader of the the Government aircraft will appear in the Opposition is a little out of order in asking Estimates for 1976-77, which will be dis­ a question of this nature. tributed when the Budget is introduced in this Chamber on 30 September. Mr. BURNS: I direct a further question to the Deputy Premier and Treasurer: Has I am informed that $43,950 was there been any alteration in the last two expended from the Vote of the Police months in the interest rates of building Department on the reconditioning and societies on moneys either borrowed or operation of two aircraft purchased in lent? 1974-75 by that department. Mr. KNOX: I suggest to the Leader of the Opposition that he address that question 4. COMMERCIAL UNION ASSURANCE CO. OF to the Minister responsible for this matter. AUSTRALIA LTD. BUILDING Mr. Houston, pursuant to notice, asked the Mr. BURNS: I ask the Minister for Works Deputy Premier and Treasurer- and Housing: Has there been any alteration in the interest rates of building societies ( 1) Does the State Government or the on moneys lent or borrowed in the last two S.G.I.O. have a proprietary interest in the months? Commercial Union Assurance Co. of Aus­ tralia Ltd. building at 444 Queen Street, Mr. LEE: I ask the honourable member Brisbane? to place his question on notice. 388 Questions Without Notice [14 SEPTEMBER 1976] Questions Without Notice

Mr. BURNS: I do so accordingly. If routine matter to recruit such a person in the Minister for Works and Housing had Britain, and he was translated from, say, been present, I would have asked him the Luton in Bedfordshire to Cairns in Queens­ question in the first place instead of wasting land. This was the traditional method. Of two other questions. course, with the present restrictions on immigration we have to rely on unemployed Mr. SPEAKER: Order! fitters and turners in, perhaps, Sydney.

RELOCATION ASSISTANCE SCHEME In the places I have mentioned, valuable orders, particularly export orders, are lost Mr. LANE: I ask the Minister for Indus­ from time to time because skilled tradesmen trial Development, Labour Relations and are not readily available to fill vacancies when Consumer Affairs: In so f,ar as the proposal they occur. This is not a short-term scheme, for the relocation of tradesmen announced and I believe that from the brief explanation by the Federal Minister (Mr. Street) is con­ I have given-I will not weary the House with cerned, does he have any details of this the details-realistic members will perceive scheme and, if so, will be make them public the merit of this scheme. in order to alleviate the confusion that must be in the minds of many people arising from I am not too sure whether in the past the groundless statements made by the Leader couple of months there has been a shortage of the Opposition, who has continuously been of skilled labour in the industries to which playing poEtics on this matter since the I have referred, but I do know that in the scheme was announced? long term in the case of Bundaberg, where at the present time the cane harvester manu­ Mr. CAMPBELL: It is an old saying facturers are producing 1,000 units a year that fools rush in where angels fear to tread. and employing about 1,000 people in a largely I am glad the honourable member for Merthyr skilled work-force, predictions for the next has raised this matter because it gives me five or six years indicate that the two factories an opportunity to highlight the petu1ance could be required to produce 5,000 cane har­ of the Leader of the Opposition, who, in his vesters, which would in turn require a skilled avid desire to make political capital out of work-force in the vicinity of 5,000 people. every issue that hits the deck, is earning In consequence, this scheme will be a valu­ ridicule throughout the entire community. able addition to employment incentives, The question also gives me an opportunity because to me it seemed a paradox that, to explain that the proposal advanced by my whilst the Federal Government under its Federal counterpart is not an unemployment immigration programme was able to translate palliative but an employment initiative. a skilled employee from Britain to Cairns in Queensland, there was no machinery available Mr. Burns: You want to shift people around to translate an unemployed fitter and turner the place. It's totalitarianism. from Sydney to Cairns. This will be possible under this proposed scheme, and I see noth­ Mr. CAMPBELL: I hope the remarks of ing sinister in it. I applaud it, and I am sure the Leader of the Opposition will be included the management of industrial concerns in in "Hansard". decentralised areas in Queensland will also Mr. Burns: I hope so, too. welcome it. Mr. CAMPBELL: This new initiative announced by Mr. Street is the result of COMPTON ROAD OVERPASS advocacy by me for three years at con­ ferences of Labour Ministers. I promoted the Mrs. KYBURZ: I ask the Minister for idea initially with Mr. Cameron, but without Local Government and Main Roads: Further effect. I promoted it again with Senator to my question of last Thursday concerning McClelland when he was Minister for Labour, the dangerous situation at Compton Road again without any result. I am pleased to overpass, has he anything further to add see that the Liberal Minister for Labour in after yesterday's Cabinet meeting? the Fedeml House has seized upon this initia­ tive. I welcome it. I repeat that it is an Mr. HINZE: I have had discussions w[th employment incentive rather than a palliative the Lord Mayor of the city of Brisbane and for present unemployment. I am pleased to be able to report, relative to her representations, that it will now be In my repeated journeys up and down the possible to commence the planning of the State, I have ascertained that in places like overpass at Compton Road. This is some­ Cairns, Mackay and Bundaberg, employers thing we have had in mind for a considerable from time to time have extreme difficulty in time to relieve the congestion in the area. obtaining skilled labour. I am speaking par­ The estimated cost of about $400,000 is to ticularly about North Queensland Engineers be broken up four ways-to be shared by & Agents in Cairns, Hodges in Mackay and the Albert Shire, the Brisbane City Council, the cane harvester manufacturers in Bunda­ the Main Roads Department and, possibly, berg. Under the previous immigration policy, the Railway Department. I congratulate the when a vacancy occurred for, say, a fitter and honourable member. It looks as if we turner in Cairns or Bundaberg, it was a simple have got this project off the ground. Questions Without Notice [14 SEPTEMBER 1976] Address in Reply 389

TRAFFIC LIGHTS, ALBION FIVEWA YS ADDRESS IN REPLY Dr. CRAWFORD: I ask the Minister for RESUMPTION OF DEBATE-SEVENTH Local Government and Main Roads: As, ALLOTTED DAY following negotiations with Alderman Frank Debate resumed from 9 September (see Sleeman, he has been able to secure a service p. 384) on Mr. Brown's motion for the in the electorate of the honourable member adoption of the Address in Reply. for Salisbury, may I ask once again: As I understand that the current Brisbane City Mr. AHERN (Landsborough) (11.57 a.m.): Council budget has in effect made provision In rising to support the motion before the for traffic lights to be installed at the Albion House, I express my loyalty and that of the Fiveways, has he taken any further action constituents of Landsborough to Her Most with the Lord Mayor and has he anything to Gracious Majesty Queen Elizabeth. These report to the House? expressions of loyalty at the beginning of most speeches in the Address-in-Reply Mr. HINZE: I thank the honourable mem­ debate have taken on a particular significance ber for Wavell for asking this question. I today, and in view of the direct challenges know that, as a responsible member, he has that are being made to the position of the brought the matter before this House on Crown in our Parliament and in the Federal orevious occasions. I am afraid that he will Parliament, it is all the more important have to bear with me when I tell him that I that we do make t:1ese statements. It never need something like $10,000,000 a year to ceases to astound me that so many protests uvercome the traflic problems in this city. are being made and red flags ::Jre being The present State allocation to the city of waved at the person of the Governor­ Brisbane is $10,000,000. I have spoken to the General when, in the type of situation which new Deputy Premier and Treasurer, ·in dis­ presently exists, those with at least an cle­ cussions in Cabinet as late as yesterday, and ment of logic in their minds surely should I have recommended that the Premier, the be directing their protest at the persons who Deputy Premier and I sit down and look into precipitated the situation, they being the ways and means of allocating funds for the members of the Senate. But apparently th·:::·e needs of this city. is a deeper significance to these protests. I agree with the honourable member that In April this year I was appointed Chair­ the city is dogged up with traffic and that the man of the Select Committee of Privileges. Albion Fiveways is a shemozzle. At this It was a great honour and a considerable particular time I do not see how I could challenge in trying to comprehend the law allocate funds for this project. If I am relating to privilege and to relate the law successful in my representations with the as it presently exists to the needs of our Premier and the Deputy Premier, as well as Legislature in 1976. We have had several the Federal boys, the honourable member will meetings since that time and I here pay be the first cab off the rank. tribute to the other members of my com­ mittee, Messrs. Porter, Hewitt, Powell, DISMISSAL OF TEACHERS CoNVICTED ON Warner, and Houston, who have co-operated DRUG CHARGES in a most helpful way in this exacting task of understanding the problem and beginning Mr. WRIGHT: I ask the Premier: With to relate it to the needs of our Legislature regard to the special meeting held recently today. We have made a number of recom­ between the Public Service Board, depart­ mei1dations to the Attorney-General, but it is mental officers and the Minister for Educa­ not my intention to detail now the various tion, and the recommendation that, while the matters under discussion or consideration. four sacked teachers should not be reinstated, they should be employed in the Public It is my desire today to make particular Service, will he explain why he personally reference to the matter outlined in my report vetoed this recommendation, which was seen as chairman to this Parliament, and that is as a satisfactory compromise by all parties a problem which we share with our sister directly and indirectly involved in the dispute parliamentary committee, the Committee of and would have ended the present disruption Subordinate Legislation. The problem is the in schools? standing of the committee during periods following prorogation of the House. As you Mr. BJELKE-PETERSEN: I do not know would certainly know, Mr. Speaker, this year to which meeting the honourable member Parliament was prorogued in May and so refers, because I am not aware of it. for some 3t months our committee ceased Secondly, there was no meeting at which to exist and, more significantly, so did our such a decision was taken. No such recom­ sister committee, the Committee of Sub­ mendation was ever made to me or to Cabinet ordinate Legislation. by the Minister. Obviously the honourable The significance of that was not foreseen member is fabricating a story to try to further by the various working parties of those two his own ends. I say right here and now that committees. I know that because I was a the Government has made its decision on this member of the working parties that prepared question and, irrespective of whether teachers the motions that were presented to the strike in other States or round the world, that Government and, eventually, to the House. decision will stand because it applies to every However. I believe that the significance of it department. is now well appreciated. 390 Address in Reply [14 SEPTEMBER 1976) Address in Reply

The problem has been brought to the atten­ this matter would again be postponed. In tion of the Parliament. and I think it is time principle, these committees and their opera­ that all honourable members considered it tion have been postponed often enough and sought to assist members of the com­ before-for at least four years, probably mittees in overcoming and rectifying it. longer-and I do not think it is reasonable Clearly, it is not acceptable that a commit­ that their working should be postponed tee, in the midst of its work, should find that again. I expect to see legislation on this the Governor in Council recommends to the issue during the life of this Parliament. Governor that there should be a prorogation The Parliamentary Committees on Punish­ of the Parliament and that, as a result, the ment of Crimes of Violence, Subordinate committee should cease to exist. Legislation and Privileges have been an excel­ It may be said that that happens for only lent reform. I am very pleased to have been three months of the year-sometimes less; a member of the working parties whose work sometimes more-but it is in those three led to the appointment of those committees in months that members of Parliament have the this place. best opportunity to do in-depth research and On those occasions many persons shook other work that they do not have time to their heads, and their fingers, and prophesied carry out when Parliament is at its busiest. doom. They were, of course, quite wrong. The possibility of prorogation threatening to In recent times similar predictions have been terminate the life of a committee is not made about some other worth-while reforms acceptable in principle. No parliamentary that have been instituted. For example, ques­ committee should meet in the knowledge that tions without notice were introduced amidst at any time-perhaps while it is considering predictions of disaster for the Government. a matter of a highly sensitive nature-its However, thanks to questions without notice, activities could be terminated immediately by Parliament is now a much fresher and a prorogation of the House. The Subordinate livelier place. Similarly, the introduction of Legislation Committee found itself this year the debate on Matters of Public Interest was in the midst of correspondence with Ministers the subject of severe criticism. Some persons that all became dead upon the prorogation of claimed that it would have dire results. On the Parliament. The committee became the contrary it is now a useful part of our functus officio-a delightfully descriptive parliamentary proceedings. phrase to describe what happened to all the business that was being conducted with These three committees have carried out Ministers in a very helpful sort of way. their work in a most responsible and he-lpful manner and the reforms have been instituted Unofficially, it is possible for the commit­ without the dire results that were forecast tees to meet, and it might be said that they by the prophets of doom. The plaster is still can continue to meet in an unofficial capacity. on the walls in this place and the Govern­ However, it must be understood that the ment has a record majority. proceedings of the committees are not privi­ I suggest that the time has come for this leged when Parliament is prorogued, and I Parliament to institute further parliamentary do not think it is acceptable for committees reforms. It has a large number of Govern­ to be meeting on sensitive matters in those ment back-benchers, all of whom are eager circumstances. to contribute to the Parliament and to the It could also be argued--indeed, it has business of government. They are not con­ been argued-that the Parliament has got tent with being sent home to their electorates along for many years without such com­ and being merely electorate farmers. They mittees. But this matter has been resolved by want to contribute more than that. the joint Government parties on at least four First of all, I suggest that we look at separate occasions, and they have shown the possibility of initiating an Adjournm~nt clearly that such committees are wanted. debate. Initially such a debate could be m­ Therefore. the committees must be able to stituted on Tuesday nights. It is the funda­ work, and they cannot work effectively if mental right and responsibility of all hon­ they are to cease to exist and their work is ourable members when elected to Parlia­ to be wiped completely from the records once ment to speak on matters affecting their con­ each year. It is a simple matter to overcome stituents as and when they occur. The the problem by providing in the legislation in opportunities for doing so are severely lim­ the first place-as has been done, I under­ ited. stand, in Victoria-that the committees shall meet for a period of three years, that is, for Dr. Crawford: They are far too few. the life of a Parliament. One of my purposes Mr. AHERN: Far too few. An Adjourn­ in entering the debate was, as chairman of ment debate would give members the oppor­ the Select Committee of Privileges, to ask tunity at least once a week of speaking on the Government to consider taking that course matters of direct and current concern to them of action. and to their electors. The Adjournment It could also be said that there is only one debate is a feature of most Parliaments more long recess before an election and that throughout the world and one that ought to the matter could be postponed until the new be considered here. Furthermore, we must Parliament assembled after the next election. look at the time limit of speeches. In this That would mean that the consideration of Address-in-Reply debate every one of the 51 Address in Reply (14 SEPTEMBER 1976] Address in Reply 391

back-bench members of the Government is September 1976; it is spring. We must parties was offered the opportunity sweep out the cobwebs; our parliamentary to speak if he wished to take advan­ procedures need a good spring-clean. tage of it. This was simply because my colleague the Government Deputy Whip and In the few minutes ,]eft to me I wish to I imposed upon our members a ruling that refer briefly to the economy, which is para­ they restrict their speeches in the debate to mount in the minds of most citizens in the 20 minutes, or to a maximum of 30 minutes community. It used to be difficult for most if they felt they had justification for speaking people to comprehend economic matters but for that length of time. So most Government the majority no longer find it diffioult to do members have participated in the debate. A!l so. Most Australians now realise that Aus­ who wanted to speak to the motion have tralia can afford only a certain number of been able to do so. However, if we kept Government programmes and services. If to the time limit of 40 minutes, as is laid there are more, the nation and its people will down in our Standing Orders, there would choke on the feast. That is what was hap­ simply not be enough allotted days to enable pening. Clearly, Governments at every level all members to speak. That Standing Order in Australia were trying to do too much. is not a reasonable one and should be Virtually everything has had to be trimmed examined by the Standing Orders Committee. a bit. Health care has become a very expensive Moreover, under our Standing Orders, only problem for Australians. Only "A Midsum­ one-third of the members at the most will mer Night's" dreamer could continue in such be able to address themselves to this year's an open-ended situation as the one we were Budget, which is to be brought down at a experiencing until quite recently. The eco­ critical stage of our economy. That is not nomic package brought down by the Federal good enough. The time allotted to members Government was, basically, in the form in during the Budget debate, that is, one hour, which I wanted it to be. Obviously some is too long. Less time induces members criticism can be levelled at it and we would to be more concise. They say as much like to institute some changes if we could. as they would say in one hour, but they With the lack of demand in the community say it in a shorter time. today, I do not believe it was ne:::essary for the loan works programme to be trimmed so We must insist that our Standing Orders harshly. For the life of me I could not Committee meet. I realise that the matter understand the decision on the nitrogenous of Standing Orders is low on the list of fertiliser bounty when the decision on the priorities of some of the busy men who super phosphate bounty (which is a parallel are members of the committee. I also realise case) is exactly the opposite. But generally that Parliament is continuing to function speaking the package was reasonable. reasonably well without such meetings of that committee. It is important that we The questions we should be asking our­ look at this and insist that the Standing selves are what should we do in contemplat­ Orders Committee meet. The first thing that ing a Budget in the coming weeks; what the Standing Orders Committee could do should we do to contribute to Australia's is allocate to some informal subcommittees resurrection after the dark days of the various sections of the Standing Orders which Whitlam administration? Firstly, I am cer­ must be looked at. The subcommittees could tain we should avoid cost increas'es as far then report back and the Standing Orders as possible even if we must trim harder. If Committee could look very quickly at the we generated a lot of cost increases at our matters. For instance, there are virtually level, we would once more set the fires no Standing Orders covering debate on under inflation in the community. Generally reports of parliamentary committees that have speaking, I believe that we should look to­ been established, or at least they are sorely wards stimulating employment and produc­ inadequate and badly in need of reform tion in the private sector and assisting

Mr. AHERN: An honourable member are not. However, it is clearly the situation mentioned the building industry. It cer­ that investment is quite a long process today: tainly has received assistance in recent times. it is not an overnight experience. As a result, Perhaps that is what is needed today-some we have to look in the long term for results further assistance in that field. However, I from the Fraser package. I am quite con­ am speaking in the historical sense. fident that if all Australians and if all lev~ls of government follow the lead that I feel In the past Australia has looked too mu;;h we in this Government should set, Australia to the Industries Assistance Commission. I will lift itself out of its economic problems. believe that we are placing all our marbles in We are too rich in terms of resources and the apron of the Industries Assistance Com­ all other considerations not to come out of mission. We are hanging all our hats on it. such an experience-! believe we can-but it As a planning authority, it seems to have will take some time. I believe that we shOLJld too much of the trappings of the Politbureau. co-operate (and I know we will) and that As Australians, we should be looking for a we should not be impatient. stimulation of industry wherever we can. I think it is too arbitrary a matter to hand to It is with a great deal of pleasure that a Federal agency the responsibility of decid­ I support this motion before the House and ing whether we should have a dairy industry, congratulate the honourable member for Clay­ a ginger industry, a pineapple industry or a field who proposed it and the honourable shipbuilding industry. Certainly, we should member for Mt. Isa who so capably seconded look to it in some ways for guidance; but I it. think we have given it too much authority. In fact, I am certain of it. Dr. CRAWFORD (Wavell) (12.21 p.m.): We have been listening with great interest I would not like to say that in 10 years' to the honourable member for Landsborough time there would be any industry in this delineating some of the problems that he country that we could manage without. Per­ sees in our community and some of the haps we should be looking at raising or solutions which he feels should come before lowering the level of assistance in some this and other Parliaments in the nature of small way: but we will need all of our reform. industries and all of our employers. What we as a State Government should be con­ I believe tha:t last year all Australians sidering is how we can assist every industry felt a great sense of relief when the Gov­ to do better and to employ more people. ernment changed and the imminent state of One item that must be included in the Bud­ near national bankruptcy was relieved for the get is an extra allocation to the Department first time for some years. It is true that, of Industrial Development. A number of in the 20 odd years of the non-Labor Gov­ projects throughout Queensland have reached ernment prior to the Whitlam era com­ the investment stage but are waiting on mencing in 1972, the inflation rate in this approval from the Department of Industrial country ranged between 2 and 6 per cent. Development. Even if it is at the expense This was able to be coped with because of something else, I believe that finance must there was national growth throughout that be made available so that such delays are time. With an increase in the Gross National overcome. Wherever we can, we must assist Produot each year, the inflation rate of even productivity and we must assist employment. 6 per cent, which is high, was able to be As members of State Parliament, we must be dealt with without any undue difficulty. How­ looking to the various industries in the elec­ ever, over the three years from 1972 to torates that we represent with a view to help­ 1975, we experienced a plight where we ing them wherever we can. were as close to national bankruptcy as we The decision to invest in Australia today is could possibly be. I believe that this arose a very time-consuming one to make. There simply because socialist principles were imple­ are those who criticise the Federal Govern­ mented during those years and, as well as ment and say that, once Fraser was elected, that, a hand-out mentality was engendered there should have been an immediate massive by the Federal Government so that Aus­ increase in capital investment. However, on tralians not only ceased to wish to work the experience both here and overseas, there but were actively encouraged to cease work­ will most certainly be a delay of anything up ing. to 18 months before there is any appreciable Socialism throughout the world has polar­ investment, simply because the investment ised Governments and the people who vote process is so inhibited by environmental for Governments. This has occurred in checks, by planning checks, by local auth­ France, in the United Kingdom and certainly ority checks, by checks of the Department of in Australia. Therefore these days a person Machinery and Scaffolding and so on. It is either fairly vehemently a socialist or fairly takes a tremendously long time for an invest­ vehemently a non-socialist. I believe that ment-making decision to reach the stage where socialism is one of the great evils in our com­ people are employed and goods are pro­ munity. And, with the implementation of duced. socialist principles to lthe economy, the We in this place are further contributing to problems which we have seen in Australia that delay by adding additional checks for one are only a mirror of the general problems reason or another. It is said that they are that occur throughout the world under those all necessary. I am sure that some of them circumstances. Address in Reply [14 SEPTEMBER 1976) Address in Reply 393

In recent years, the British inflationary Mrs. Castle has adamantly adhered to situation, of course, has caused very great principles decided by the trade union move­ worry to the Labor Government in that ment in the United Kingdom and this attitude country; so much so that a very major has been continued by Mr. David Owen, the effort has been made by Sir Harold Wilson present Minister for Social Services. The and now Mr. Callaghan to try to bring doctors have once again fought a losing inflation under control by attempting to battle and just have to accept the implemen­ reverse the socialist trends and the hand-out tation of socialist policies. It is very much mentality. It is true that in Britain and else­ to the disadvantage of both the patients and where the economy is in a parlous state the economy that money from fee-paying because of the implementation of socialist patients that could have been pumped into principles. This can be seen in no greater health services will no longer be available. degree than in the health services of that It is short-sighted and almost criminally country and, as a result, in the deterioration stupid for a so-called responsible Minister in services that have been provided tradi­ to behave as Mrs. Castle has behaved in tionally to the British public. the United Kingdom. Once again a political philosophy has disadvantaged those who are Because of the system of control over giving the service and those who are nursing, medical and paramedical services in receiving it. the United Kingdom, not only the workers (who in this instance are the doctors, the In Sweden the situation is even worse. nurses, the physios and others) but also those The Swedish economy has been geared to involved in the administration of health ser­ socialism for many years and the health vices are being very gravely disadvantaged service that has been implemented there both in the matter of wages and in the way demonstrates the end result of socialist con­ in which their conditions of service are being trol of health services in general. We have organised. heard for many years cries about free It is true that, because of lack of incen­ beds and how their provision is a tive, there is very great difficulty now in necessary part of a just and rational recruiting people to train in medical and system of community service. The end paramedical spheres, particularly nursing. result of the socia1list system in Sweden Recently a patient of mine returned from is that taxation to provide hospital services the United Kingdom. His mother had been is astronomically high. Free beds have finally admitted to a hospital in Coventry for been eliminated because Sweden can no major surgery, but only after a delay of longer afford to provide this service. A almost 12 months, which was a direct result charge is now made on every patient who of the shortage of medical and nursing sees a doctor in the public hospital system. staff. When she eventually obtained a In addition, private practice has been com­ bed in the Coventry Hospital, which is a pletely eliminated. As the end result of the very pleasant and adequate hospital that socialist control of health services, there is has been rebuilt since it was bombed during no means in Sweden now of consulting a the war, she secured the necessary treatment medical practitioner privately and receiving at a stage so late that it disadvantaged her private treatment. Patients now have to and will markedly affect her longevity. I front up to a public hospital in which they believe that this is completely unacceptable have to pay for the privilege of receiving the in a medical sense and in an area in which socialist-controlled hospital services. That is service should be regarded as paramount. where the system leads eventually. Community service in the United Kingdom Mr. Porter: There are elections in those is not now regarded with favour, particularly countries this week-end. It will be interesting in the provision of health services. to see how the socialist paradise is regarded. In recent times in the United Kingdom the Dr. CRAWFORD: That is verv true. I socialists, through Mrs. Barbara Castle, who noted in today's "Australian" ment{on of the was then the Minister for Social Services, Swedish elections this week-end; but I believe progressively removed from the system the that, once people have been brainwashed for people's traditional right to obtain private long enough to accept a "Big Brother will treatment if they so desired. She used control and provide" mentality, there is no another very unpleasant socialist-type argu­ real method of undoing the damage and ment when she said, "Why should people bringing back a rational form of service. who are prepared to use their cheque-books be able to jump the queue?" She neglected In Australia in 1972 we did have a reason­ to add, of course, that the queue is caused ably adequate medical service. Of course, it by the provision of her own socialist health had problems. There were some citi­ service over the years. In removing initially zens who should have had more ser­ 1,000 beds from the fee-paying section of vices provided for them. I was one the community under the National Health of those who criticised the Liberal Party Service, she stirred up a hornet's nest of of the day for not providing these ser­ doctors, young and old, who realise that yet vices, particularly to pensioners. However, another aspect of the pleasure of practice is the provision since then of a completely new being removed. In other words, they are concept of health care in this country ha~ being denied the privilege of offering patients brought about a very great change in the the choice of public or private treatment. thinking of the medical profession and its 394 Address in Reply (14 SEPTEMBER 1976] Address in Reply allied professions and the attitude to health electors is, that Hawke or Hayden or any­ services of the patients at the end of the body else can now criticise th,e levy, as it was line. an integral part of their reasoning when they first introduced the whole system. I think it is important that we realise that Negotiations which were carried out in it is the principles which Hayden, Hawke the second half of 1975 between Mr. Hay­ and others were prescribing for the den, the then Minister in control of this general needs of the community which have matter in Canberra, and on State Govern­ brought about our present problems, and ment left much to be desired. We heard not the principles of those who work in the quite a lot in Queensland that through our services. Mr. Hawke and, of course, Mr. Health Department we were negotiating with Hayden have over the years used the doctors the Commonwealth Health Department on and others who work in our health services the matter of the agreement. Under those as whipping boys. I am always amazed circumstances there was no such animal as when I hear talk about the Australian Medi­ negotiation. Mr. Hayden's legislation set out cal Association being the greatest union of quite succinctly and clearly exactly what he them all. The A.M.A. has never been on wanted from the Medibank system, to be im­ strike, and I do not envisage it will ever go plemented from 1 July 1975. There was no on strike; nor will individual doctors whether way now in which anybody in Queensland, they are inside or outside the A.M.A. or, indeed, in any other State, could nego­ If Mr. Hawke has so little imagination and tiate on any point. It was quite clearly a so little control over his own unions that the '\take it or leave it" deal. If a State accepted best he can do is cast aspersions on an it, it accepted it as a whole; if j,t did not organisation which does its utmost to pro­ accept it, rejected the deal completely. vide, sometimes under conditions of the Unfortunately, despite my opposition and greatest difficulty, services to the people, he the opposition of others in this Chamber should look at his own organisations and and in other Parliaments, the deal was his own feeble attempts to control their accepted throughout the country, and I members rather than castigate other peace­ believe that Queensland paid very dearly for ful organisations. The A.M.A. is a voluntary the $50,000,000, or whatever the sum was, organisation. By no means all doctors prac­ that it was supposed to receive the the first tising in this country are members, but Mr. year from the beneficent Federal Government Hawke will no doubt continue to use the under the Hayden scheme. We have not A.M.A. as a whipping-boy to disguise his been able since to alter the basic P.rinciple own inadequacies. of a Medibank controlling system, when we could have continued, with modifications, the When the system was promulgated origin­ previous system, which was perfectly ally under the influence of those master adequate. economists from Monash University, Messrs. At the time much was made by Mr. Scotton and Deeble-doctors of philosophv Hayden of the argument that a percentage of -it contained a levy of 1.35 per cent of Australians were uninsured in some partic­ taxable income, a levy about which Mr. ular-! think it was somewhere between 7 Hayden made a very great deal of noise. and 8 per cent. The whole of the present At the time this levy was to be supplemented difficulty has arisen because, with the prin­ by an equal contribution from Consolidated ciple of socialism being introduced into Revenue, and if that is not further taxation health, that 7 or 8 per cent of people had 1 do not know what it is. Therefore in 1972 to be compulsorily insured. At least 5 the Australian taxpayer was to provide 2.7 per cent-more than half--of that 7 or 8 per cent of his taxable income to pay for per cent were people who did not wish to hospital services. The imposition of this be insured, who did not want to have com­ levy was prevented by the action of the non­ pulsory insurance jammed down their Labor parties in the Senate, I think rightly throats. It is a fact that the Liberal Party so at the time. But one could be f9rgiven in Canberra will now be criticised because for thinking that the Labor Party m Can­ the new modifications continue compulsory berra had never heard of the word "levy" in insurance. I should like to make it crystal 1972 in view of the noise they have made clear that this compulsory insurance is purely about a 2.5 per cent levy on taxable income a matter of the continuation of a principle which is currently to be used to provide the which, having been fixed into the system by modified Medibank services in 1976. I Labor, cannot be removed. For ever more, just point out to Australians, and to whether certain people Iike it or not, health Queenslanders in particular, that the levy in this country will be a matter of compul­ was a Labor brainchild which Scotton sory insurance. It is Hayden's socialism that and Deeble felt was an integral part has come home to roost-nothing more or of the Medibank proposals a la 1972 less. and was prevented from being imple­ In Queensland. the matter of the levy and mented during the years 1972 to 1975 the provision of free beds is a cause of con­ only by the actions of the Liberal and troversy. Over the years the concept of Country parties in the Senate. So there is free beds-with which I do not disagree­ no way. however short the memory of the implies that, Big Brother having provided for Address in Reply [14 SEPTEMBER 1976] Address in Reply 395 it, the money to pay for these beds comes of the Address in Reply to His Excellency from some magic source labelled "Consoli­ the Governor, Sir CO'lin Hannah, on the dated Revenue"; this has meant that insuffi­ opening of this the 41st Parliament of cient money has been spent in Queensland Queensland. hospitals to provide the services needed. If the Government had accepted money from I take this opportunity to reaffirm my loyalty and that of my electors to both His the medical benefit funds four or five years Excellency the Governor and Her Majesty ago, as I attempted to persuade it to do, very large sums of money wouid have come Queen Elizabeth. to the Government and to the Health Depart­ I congratulate the new member for Port ment in Queensland-a matter now of about Curtis, Mr. Bill Prest, on his election to $100,000,000 ($20,000,000 a year over five State Parliament. I also congratulate the years). Merely accepting a hand-out from Honourable W. E. Knox on his appointment the Federal Government, with controlling as Leader of the Liberal Party and as strings attached, does not improve the system Treasurer of this State. I know that the but simply attempts to improve the political honourable member for Ash grove, Mr. John image, and that is completely non"productive. Greenwood, will serve well and long as a The situation has been reached in .Queens­ Minister of the Crown, and I congratulate land and elsewhere that the principle of him on his appointment to his high post after socialism in health control is being accepted such a short time in ,Parliament. progressively. A compulsory levy on all In this debate I must bring to the attention citizens is just part of that control, and of this State Parliament the plight of our there is no method now of revoking that. dairy industry. Together with the beef and However, I think it is important for all wool industries, it gave Australia an export Queenslanders to realise that they have to income that helped finance our national pay for medical services. At least the levy development long after World War II. The will ensure that every person in this State dairy industry has survived from pioneering realises that he has a bill to pay; it will days by adapting to mechanisation of culti­ also ensure that the burden of taxes needed vation, milking, storage, transport and pro­ to pay for the services is distributed, which cessing. had not previously occurred in an equitable fashion. The Queensland dairy industry is now fac­ In any negotiation or discussion between ing its greatest-ever challenge-not from State and Federal authorities, it is no good drought, not from inflation, but from the any of us putting his head in the sand like Australian Government. The Whitlam an ostrich and persuading himself that this Labor Government, as part of its attempt to is something unpleasant that will go away. nationalise the farms of Australia, used the Socialist control of health systems will not Industries Assistance Commission to help go away. Money for the services provided reduce fluctuations in incomes of rural pro­ must come from somewhere, and in this ducers. This apparently innocent move led instance it certainly must come from the to an equalisation scheme which now will taxpayer's pocket. Unfortunately, there are nationalise the dairy industry. Under the bureaucrats in both the State and the Federal Fraser Government there has been no change sphere who give incorrect advice and who. in this policy to equalise or nationalise the I believe, are acting in dereliction of their dairy industry. The Government has duty to the country when they give advice changed, but the same advice is coming from that is wrong in both principle and substance. the same public servants. That illustrates the problem. One can grandstand politically as Bill Hayden did on the provision of health ser­ At a meeting of the Milk Council of the vices in 1972 if one wishes, but that is a Australian Dairy Organisation held on 7 poor political trick. If a pure socialist sys­ May 1976, there were two representatives tem of health control is continued in this from each State and two advisers from each country as it has been continued in the State, yet the chairman used his position not United Kingdom and Sweden, a situation will to get the feeling of the meeting but to be reached similar to that now pertaining in dictate to it. His report to the Federal Min­ Sweden, where there is no private health ister for Primary Industry, the Honourable care but an expensive and inefficient public Tan Sinclair, reflected his views. The Min­ health system in which people pay for each ister acted upon his views rather than those consultation. We have a clear choice in of the States. Of course, no State's views Australia, either socialist medicine or non­ reached the Minister from that meeting. socialist medicine. I would add my plea to those of others in this country who call In speaking to the Australian Agricultural for a progressive revision of the type of ser­ Council on 1 April 1976, Mr. Sinclair said, vices that we have in Australia and the among other things, 'The proposed levy on application of non-socialist principles. whole milk has since received the endorse­ ment of every State Government." If he has Dr. LOCKWOOD (foowoomba North) this endorsement, he should produce it. In (12.40 p.m.): I rise in support of the motion Queensland every dairy farmer is opposed moved by the newly elected member for to this levy. There is still time for it to be Clayfield, Mr. Ivan Brown, for the adoption withdrawn. 396 Address in Reply (14 SEPTEMBER 1976] Address in Reply

Queensland dairy farmers are highly boil on the bottom of Australia. Mr. Fraser efficient and the industry has been fully rat­ would do well to consider the saying that ionalised. In an average year Queensland firstly one should do no harm. He cannot, as produces enough dairy products to be self­ Prime Minister, justify killing the head end sufficient with a little avaHable for export. because of a boil on the bottom of his Our State Government has helped put the patient. He and Mr. Sinclair have the way industry in a viable position by encouraging out of their dilemma before them. The dairy farmers to get big or get out. Its seventh Australian "State" has played its policy of amalgamation of farms into living very heavy hand-that is, the "State of areas has worked. A great many dairy Drought''. Clearly Victoria's dairymen are farmers have left the industry thereby enab­ in a very bad financial position. Federal ling those remaining in it to survive. intervention is needed to have that industry fully rationalised even if the State of Vic­ In Victoria the State Government fostered toria refuses to do it. Because of the plight and encouraged the expansion of the dairy of the Victorian dairy industry in this time industry at a time when Queensland was of drought, Mr. Sinclair can drop his plan encouraging a reduction. Victorian dairy to rip off a 280 per cent jump in flat taxation farmers are suffering from the effects of a on milk. He can do it honourably; he can disastrous drought, which may cure the prob­ say he thought of it long ago and was just lems confronting the Victorian policy of about to do it-but do it he must! expansion. Over-production of powdered milk, butter and cheese, and the inability It should be remembered that the New to sell that over-production on the export Zealand dairying industry is undergoing market, has tumbled that over-developed rationalisation because of the extremely heavy industry. Marketing experts in the Austral­ Government support. Victoria can no longer ian Dairy Corporation unfortunately made a rely on New Zealand to back up its short­ sale of stockpiled butter and this further fall on export orders. injured the Victorian dairymen's financial The Australian Government has given returns. Huge stocks were sold at a price unemployment relief to those dairy farmers of approximately $700 a tonne less than the who lived in the electorates of the coalition home-market selling price. Victoria cannot members from Victoria, but this same Gov­ now meet its export contracts for butter and ernment on personal intervention of a Minis­ is in fact importing and repacking butter to ter stopped similar payments to smallcrop satisfy overseas orders. farmers of Toowoomba and Lockyer, who The Victorian industry may end up an lost two crops in the 10 January hailstorm import-packaging and supply business if the and ensuing cyclones. Victorian Government does not set about Mr. Fraser should be well aware that these rationalising its dairying industry. Stockpiles snubs to the Darling Downs and Atherton of unsaleable milk powder still exist. Tableland smack once again of the "Brisbane Queenslanders should be made aware that Line" and are based on the supposition that it is Victoria which needs to rationalise its all of Australia worth saving is south of the dairying industry in the face of shrinking Murray River. export markets rather than have the rest of Part of the new federalism deal which nad Australia support that State. Mr. Fraser's Government elected is to do Queensland would subsidise Victoria by away with socialism. A good place to begin about $3,200,000 in the first full year of would be with the Act relating to the levy operation. I fail to see why this State should on whole milk and butter fat, which is a send anything to Victoria to support its left-over from the Whitlam Government. industries. That is unjust and will kill the At this time the dairymen are undergoing dairying industry in Queensland. On this great pressure from within and without their basis I asked the former Minister for Jus­ industry. They are receiving conflicting tice (Mr. Knox) if consideration could be advice and reports. They are not being well given to a High Court appeal. The Queens­ represented at the national level in organisa­ land Cabinet investigated the matter b'Jt, tions. Some of the people who represent unfortunately, no legal machinery could be them are salaried members who do not feel found whereby such an appeal against this the same stresses that dairymen feel as a interstate discrimination could be heard. result of the decisions they make. It is high Our Premier (Hon. Joh Bjelke-Petersen) time that the dairymen brought full pressure and the Minister for Primary Industries to bear on the Federal scene in this matter. (Hon. Vie Sullivan) have not given Queens­ They must also remember that to do this land's support to the scheme. The scheme is they must remain united as an indu3try bad because it demands a flat tax without group. considering profitability and because there is They would do well to consider the plight taxation without representation on the Aus­ of the medical profession in 1972, 1973 and tralian Dairy Corporation. 1974. Under the various dictates of the It is high time that the Prime Minister Whitlam Labor Government, the medical pro­ himself intervened in the gathering dispute. fession could suffer a shock a day as Mr. It is true that the Victorian members of Hayden and other Labor Ministers reeled off Parliament in his coalition favour the scheme their decisions. In those days the profession because it puts a Band-aid on a festering had to get onto a basis where it could react Address in Reply (14 SEPTEMBER 1976] Address in Reply 397 from da3 ro day. It could not rely on fort­ and making them less than viable. Inland nightly or monthly meetings to consider industries are losing in what could be termed problems. It had to react instantly. The their sale value. Their share values are dairy industry must establish itself on a decreasing-all because, of the taxes they are sound footing so that it can do the same. It called on to pay, pay-roll tax is the most must remain united as an industry and resist harsh, being based on a fiat figure. It takes all attempts to form splinter groups, as hap­ no account of profitability. It is robbing pened in medicine, where the smaller groups business of profits. Another State rebates lost their significance. Since then the main pay-roll tax if its Treasury is in a financial body of medical opinion, the Australian position to do so. This rebate applies to Medical Association, once again has come industries outside the capital city. forward to represent the interests and needs Excepting Canberra, Toowoomba is the of all doctors. largest inland city in Australia. It relies en­ Approximately $3,000,000 should be made tirely for its survival on servicing the man available to the State Wheat Board. Although on the land. Manufacturing industries in that amount may not be necessary for this Toowoomba provide machinery and equip­ year's crop, it will enable the grain industry ment for the man on the land. It sells its to cope better with the emerging resistance equipment all over Australia. Toowoomba of insects to insecticides and also to the can do this job quite well if it is given the problems of hauling grain from the more pay-roll tax concession and a road tax con­ marginal districts in the State. There is a cession on haulage to and from the city. need to eliminate the double handling that Toowoomba industries, such as a soft­ occurs with 10 per cent of our grain crop. drink manufacturer, can compete on markets That double handling adds $5 to the freight 200 to 300 miles away on the coast but they cost. For example, the freight cost from are being well and truly slugged with road Glenmorgan to Dalby and then from Dalby tax. This one small thing turns the tide to Brisbane is of the order of $15 a tonne, against them and it is that little bit that takes whereas if it went straight through it would their profitability clean away from ,them. be in the vicinity of only $10 a tonne. In the remaining minutes at my disopsal Pinkenba cannot store and handle all I should like to discuss the unemployment the grain produced in this State. Toowoomba problem in Australia. In recent weeks, the would be an ideal site for the location of Australian Labor Party has claimed that it any intermediate storage that is required. is concerned about the level of unemploy­ However, any stomge must be of a type that ment. That is a lot of twaddle. It was not will be capable of moisture control so that bleating about unemployment when its tariff grain that is not quite as dry as that stored cuts put so many people out of work or in optimum conditions can be dried. Grain when the building industry fell to 60 per will also need to be stored in a gas-tight cent and then to 50 per cent of its capacity. silo, in a manner that allows regular testing It was not concerned about helping people and sampling. to obtain houses or with the cessation of A gas-tight silo is absolutely essential, building on large sites, which was caused because there is no doubt that the emerging by strikes, particularly in the steel and resistance of weevils to Malathion is placing cement industries. Yet now the Labor Par·tY our grain industry once again at the cross­ says that it is vitally concerned that so many roads. In this country there is no deep freeze people throughout Australia are unemployed. in winter, as occurs in the Northern Hemi­ sphere wheat belts, where temperatures of It is true that people are unemployed but -10°, -30° and even -60° kill all insects. The at least now, under the Liberal-National Northern Hemisphere has virtually no insects Country Party Government in Canberra, the which are oapable of wintering over, and tide has turned, inflation is being certainly none capable of surviving a winter brought under control and finance is avail­ in stored grain. Grain can be stored there able for housing. In _the past six weeks, in the most simple silos for eight years record housing finance has been made avail­ without even a thought given to sampling. able in Toowoomba through the building Any silos we build for grain storage here societies. Liberal and National Party people must be of the gas-tight type, because at do care about employment and about jobs. present it seems that various gases will have They have created an environment where to be used, perhaps as often as every six jobs will be available and business and or eight weeks, to ensure that the grain does building can proceed. not deteriorate in storage. As yet there is For its part, the Labor Party did its very no other safe chemical anywhere near as best to wreck industry generally. It put very effective as Malathion for use on grain. severe economic clamps on the building in­ I believe that this Government must get dustry to bring it down to 50 per cent pro­ on with the job of reducing pay-roll tax, duction. It put all manner of people out of particularly where it affects industry or manu­ work and helped to delay the movement of facture in centres other than the capital a great many young people into homes of city. The tax quite effectively limits expan­ their own. As I said, it achieved this sion of production and replacement of through strikes and its fiscal policies, which machinery. It is taking profits clean out of wrecked the economy of this country and the largest inland manufacturing industries brought about record inflation. 398 Address in Reply (14 SEPTEMBER 1976] Address in Reply

Everybody knows that if young couples take some action in regard to them. I com­ can borrow money at 5 or 6 per cent, they mend Mr. Speaker on his attitude and on can afford a home, but when the interest rate his action in advising Parliament of its rights reaches 15 per cent, the size of the home as he sees them. I feel that the comments they can build shrinks. Had our Labor made by the honourable member for Lands­ friends remained in power we would be borough this morning also merit commenda­ looking at an inflation rate of 25 or per­ tion. The honourable member dealt at some haps 30 per cent. A couple would not then length with the need to allow honourable be able to afford repayments of interest and members to voice their comments and principal on anyJthing like what we would criticisms and, in the interest of their elec­ call a home. They would even be flat out torates and the State, to raise in Parliament making a down payment on a caravan. the problems that confront their electorates. I commend him, too. Perhaps this is why there are so many caravans in Australia. This is why, in parks I do not commend the Premier on his around the cities, there are so many mobile actions in recent times. Rather, in fact, homes. They do not have wheels and will I condemn him. Recently he was asked from never be moved. They cannot be taken to the Opposition benches a very straightforward the beach. Their owners cannot enjoy a and stereotyped question about the expendi­ holiday in them. They are second or third­ ture of public money. The Premier, in class housing. This is what the Labor Party his usual dogmatic way, refused to supply gave us-second or third-class housing. It the information. It was a simple question took from Australian couples their birth­ on how much public money had been spent right of having a home. It took jobs from on certain overseas trips by members of so many people in all walks of life. As a Parliament. To my mind, this refusal by small concession, it gave them the dole. the Premier was an unprecedented action and a further indication of his attitude to [Sitting suspended from 1 to 2.15 p.m.] what is happening in this State. The Premier also decided that there would Mr. YEWDALE (Rockhampton North) be no inquiry into the incident during a (2.15 p.m.): In my opening remarks in this street demonstration of a young girl being debate I should like to refer briefly to some hit with a baton by a police officer. In of the things that have happened in this the present issue concerning teachers, the Parliament in the last week. Three writs Opposition has information to suggest that were issued dealing with three matters raised the Minister for Education and Cultural in Parliament, thus creating a situation in Activities, the Public Service Board and others which Parliament was muzzled. For the concerned had agreed to take the matter benefit of my electorate and the public gen­ to the Premier for reconsideration and that erally, I should like to deal with these the Premier refused to have anything to do matters. with it. I suggest that in this State there One concerns the National Trust and the is a situation in which the Premier holds bird sanctuary at Currumbin. It seems rather the reins, changes Cabinet portfolios to suit ridiculous to have Government intervention his whims and in fact wants to exercise sole in a gift by a philanthropist to the National control. Trust. I do not think that there is anything I would like to move now to a subject political in the making of this gift and I cannot see why the Government cannot allow which has only recently been ventilated and the National Trust to carry out its functions I refer to the Federal Government's new and preserve the Currumbin sanctuary for Relocation Assistance Scheme. This scheme future generations. saw the light of day only recently and we find that there have been various reactions I shall touch only briefly on the Cedar to it. For the information of the House, Bay incident. Although the writ in that I will take the trouble to outline what will matter was, I understand, issued by a senior hapl?en under the scheme. The document I sergeant of police in Cairns, my interpreta­ have states- tion is that it was issued by the Minister "Fares for the applicant to a new area for Police. I do not think a senior sergeant for employment or training interview. would issue a writ on a police matter, not a civil matter, without the sanction of the "Fares for the spouse and applicant to Minister. It seems to me that the Minister travel to a new area for an exploratory issued the writ that has in effect muzzled visit to examine living conditions and Parliament. return home." The third issue concerns a grocery chain. Mr. Moore: We all read it in the paper. In this matter my colleague the honourable member for Archerfield was silenced by the Mr. YEWDALE: I did not know that the issuing of a writ. The honourable member honourable member could read. It con­ was endeavouring to expose a particular tinues- operation. He gave names, and he was stifled "Travel expenses for a family to take by the issuing of a writ. up residence in the new area. The writs issued last week created such a "Fare for an applicant for two return furore among both Government and Opposi­ visits to his family if he moves by him­ tion members that Mr. Speaker saw fit to self. Address in Reply [14 SEPTEMBER 1976) Address in Reply 399

"Minimum refund of $500 for removing Federal Government is coming up with this household and personal effects. sort of scheme in an effort to save face "A re-establishment allowance of $400 by playing down the problem of accelerating for a wife and two dependants. unemployment in Australia. We are told by experts in the statistics field that unemploy­ "$500 contribution to agent and legal ment figures will continue to rise up till fees for sale and purchase of homes or 1980. one month's rent for persons seeking rental accommodation." What do we expect to happen to the To my mind no large sums of money are children who will leave school in a few being handed out under that scheme, and in months' time and start looking for work? fact I do not think it will see the light of In Queensland at the end of August, 1,385 day. I make that suggestion because the of the children who left school last year Government has put the cart before the were still unemployed. If we add to that horse. It seems to me that a responsible figure the number who will leave school Government, as it professes to be, which at the end of the current year and will comes up with a scheme for the relocation not be able to find employment, the figure of employees in this country first of all will probably double, if not more than has to create jobs, and if it is going to double. Where we are going to find work spend money in this very important area of for them I do not know. This scheme unemployment-- certainly will not find it for them. Mr. Moon:: You haven't got to create jobs; I do not know where the Government the jobs have to be there. is going to accommodate any persons shifted under this scheme, particularly in Queens­ Mr. YEWDALE: The Government has to land. I can speak with some knowledge of create jobs in order to give people employ­ Queensland's accommodation problems. If ment. I do not know where the Federal we are going to shift any number of per­ Ministers obtained their figures, but I will sons into this State, where are we going give honourable members some figures to to house them? If the Government is going show that this is an unworkable scheme. to look at a priority system under the scheme, These figures were released by the Common­ is it going to give priority to a man with wealth Statistician at the end of August and a wife and family? they relate to Queensland. In the Brisbane metropolitan area the total unemployed at M:r. Moore: You cannot shift them if they the end of August were 15,415 and the have a home of their own. jobs aYailable were 973. In Atherton there were 712 unemployed and the jobs avail­ Mr. YEWDALE: For a change I will agree able were eight. with the honourable member for Windsor. A Government :vi" ember: You are using Tom Burns's figures. If he is to be shifted from a country area where he has a reasonably sound home but Mr. YEWDALE: These are the Common­ no employment, I remind the House that the wealth Statistician's figures. I have the official value of that home has depreciated consider­ document here if any of the honourable ably in recent times. If he is to be expected to members interjecting would like to peruse sell that home and move to a provincial city it. In Charlevil!e we had 251 people out on the coast or to an area where there of work and 10 jobs available; in Mary­ is some choice of employment for him, how borough, 831 unemployed and 42 jobs avail­ is he to re-establish himself in a house with able; in Toowoomba 1,743 unemployed with the amount of money that he will get for 79 jobs available; and Townsville 2,476 the one in the country? He will not even unemployed with 78 jobs available. be able to buy a block of land with that sum. Mr. Moore: That figure is not quite right The suggested provision of money to assist because they don't all register. a man to travel and explore the situa;tion­ look at the job and the availability of Mr. YEWDALE: Is the honourable mem­ accommodation-perhaps has some merit; but, ber refuting them? for the life of me, I cannot see anything Mr. Moore: Of course I am. You would, happening in this State now in the movement too, if you had any brains. of people under this scheme. In my opinion, the scheme would have merit only where Mr. YEWDALE: The honourable member there was a distinct and obvious shortage can refute them, but I am sure those people of people in a specific area and then with who are unemployed will not refute them. a voluntary system of shifting. I know that They know the situation. The Government a similar scheme worked on the waterfront is saying it is going to retrain sgme of when redundancies occurred. People moved these people under the N.E.A.T. scheme. My from ports along the Queensla,nd coast to information regarding the N.E.A.T. scheme Brisbane or to other major por

Mr. YEWDALE: It will work in isolated he was talking about. He was trying to cases; but the Federal Government is paint­ save face in answer to a Dorothy Dix question ing the picture that this scheme is the answer from one of his own back-benchers. to all the problems of unemployment. Mr. Moore: Who did that? Mr. Moore: They aren't saying that. Mr. K. J. Hooper: The honourable member Mr. YEWDALE: Of course they are! It for Mourilyan. is only a face-saving scheme. Mr. YEWDALE: Reference was made There are a couple of other very pertinent earlier to the N.E.A.T. scheme and what was points that I wish to make. I do not know being done under it, and I indicated th_at whether when the Department of Social it was being phased out. That scheme JS, Security offers a move to a particular of course, the responsibility of Mr. Street, unemployed person and he refuses to take that the Federal Minister for Employment and move, he will then be debarred from con­ Industrial Relations. Mr. Lynch, in his mini tinuing to receive unemployment benefits. Budget, recently lopped $12,000,000 from That has yet to be seen. Just image the the appropriation for the N.E.A.T. scheme. chaos that would be created by moving Can anyone in this Chamber or anywhere people just prior to an election in this State, else tell we what is going to happen to when people have three months to enrol! retraining under a N.E.A.T. scheme that I am only supposing. I do not think these has just had $12,000,000 lopped from its problems will arise; but they could. appropriation? The former Labor Govern­ In this Chamber this morning the Minister ment's appropriation for the same scheme for Industrial Development, Labour Rela­ was $52,000,000. Lynch has cut this back tions and Consumer Affairs, in answering a to $40,000,000 for the cnrrent financial year. question by the Leader of the Opposition, I am not arguing about the merits or demerits referred to certain job vacancies in this State of the N.E.A.T. scheme, but the relevant and mentioned specifically Bundaberg, Cairns Minister has said that he is going to retrain and Mackay. He said that these areas had people under that scheme. How can he do vacancies for people who were unemployed. that effectively when its allocation under the I do not know where he got that informa­ Federal Liberal Government is 40 per cent tion from, but I will go back to the figures less than under the Labor Government? that I have before me. Mr. DEPUTY SPEAKER (Mr. W. D. At the end of August, there were 3,036 Hewitt): Order! There is too much audible people out of work in Cairns and applying conversation in the Chamber. for or receiving unemployment benefits, but only 49 jobs were available there. As I said Mr. Moore: The taxpayer pays at: the bills; earlier, I do not know where the Minister you have to remember that. got his information. He said that there were vacancies in a certain area in Bundaberg. Mr. YEWDALE: I won't argue against There are 831 people officially out of work that. I am only arguing about the scheme in Bundaberg and 63 job vacancies. In that has been put forward by the Federal Mackay there are over 1,000 people Liberal Government as a solution to the unemployed and only 58 vacancies. I cannot unemployment problem. I do not think it understand the Minister's statement in the will work; I doubt that it will even get off Chamber this morning. the ground. If the Federal Government cannot solve the unemployment problem Mr. Jensen: Did you say 63 vacancies why doesn't it accept the criticism that has in Bundaberg? People can fill those vacancies been levelled at it by persons like Messrs. if they have the qualifications. Reid and Ramsay, who, on a recent edition Mr. YEWDALE: All I can say in answer of "State of the Nation", claimed that the to that interjection is that if there are 63 Fraser-Lynch Government has embarked vacancies in Bundaberg and there are 831 deliberately on a programme of retaining people out of work, I do not understand what unemployment ail: a high level in an endeav­ the Department of Social Security is doing our to come to grips with the trade union about the situation. My experience with the movement in Australia. department is that it is being fairly severe, I move from the Federal sphere to the and I do not object to that in most cases State scene to comment on consumer affairs in which people will not accept employment in Queensland. I have taken a fairly keen when i.t is offered to them and they are interest in this matter. The Consumer physically able to carry out that sort of Affairs Bureau and the Small Claims Tri­ work. bunal have given some measure of satisfac­ Mr. Moore: One would wonder why there tion and justice to the community. I qualify were any vacancies when so many people are that, however, by suggesting that in the long unemployed. term all we are doing is perpetua,ting a system that we have developed. I say "per­ Mr. YEWDALE: I think that the Minister petuating" because from day to day and for Industrial Development, Labour Relations from year to year the number of complaints and Consumer Affairs was talking through concerning consumer affairs and small claims his hat. I do not think he knew what is increasing. Address in Reply [14 SEPTEMBER 1976] Address in Reply 401

I have examined the annual reports over this Parliament, neither I nor my colleague the past four years since the inception of should receive increasing complaints which the Consumer Affairs Bureau, and in them are not being rectified at the other end of I have found that in 1972-73, 24 per ceiii1: the spectrum. of persons who complained to the Consumer This is a very important facet of Govern­ Affairs Bureau were told to seek either the ment. The vast majority of the people buy assistance of the Small Claims Tribunal or essential consumer goods for day-to-day use, legal advice; in 1973-74 the proportion rose not luxury goods. One of the main problems to 29 per cent; in 197 4-7 5 to 31 per cent, is that Queensland has no official standards and in 1975-76 to 32 per cent. These figures for products. I see no reason why we could reveal that, instead of reducing the number not set standards for essential goods. Some of complaints, the Government's educational electrical appliances last for only a very pmgrammes and publicity campaigns car­ short time, and when malfunctions or defects ried out by the circulation of leaflets and occur the customer very often cannot get brochures have had the effect of increasing satisfaction. the number of complaints received. One cannot generalise about the I suggest that the reason is that the Gov­ manufacturing, wholesaling and retailing ernment is trying to educate only one section industries. Many managers and directors of the community and is allowing the manu­ of firms approached by us at top level have facturers, wholesalers and retailers to con­ been very co-operative and have helped us tinue to produce and sell substandard goods, to rectify problems. However, in many to give poor after-sales service and to adver­ instances, firms will do nothing whatever. tise falsely. Figures in the report bear out that the Furthermore, the Government has not three major problem areas are in the building curtailed pyramid-selling or the activities of industry, the appliance industry and the motor door-to-door salesmen, nor has it prevented vehicle industry. A home builder is con­ the operations of fly-by-night house painters, fronted with local authority by-laws. He roof painters and home cladders. In addition sees that the Builders' Registration Board it has allowed $2 companies to re-establish and the electric authority have some say and themselves after they go into liquidation. he is faced with a host of subcontractors who All these things have aggravated the pro­ are building his home. If a problem should blem. The Government's approach to con­ arise, say, a sunken floor, a collapsed ceiling sumer affairs and small claims is not over­ or peeling paint, he has to wend his way coming it. Instead of looking at results, the through the team of subcontractors back to Government should look for the causes of the Builders' Registration Board or the local the problems. authority. In doing so he usually becomes completely frustrated and pays for the rectifi­ The annual report of the Consumer cation of the faulty work done by the Affairs Bmeau indicates that since its in­ electrician, the plasterer, the concreter and ception it has increased its staff quite con­ so on. The Builders' Registration Board is siderably. This increase in staff is brought not doing enough for such people. about by the larger volume of work carried out by the bureau. In fact that contention Mr. Ahern: The builder is responsible. is borne out by the percentages quoted by me. The work-load has increased simply Mr. YEWDALE: The Builders' Registra· because the number of complaints has in­ tion Board is not getting satisfaction for creased. I cannot stress too much that the these people. I am sure that many honourable fact that the number of complaints is in­ members have had experiences similar to creasing indicates that the Government is mine. The Builders' Registration Board is not doing enough about the cause of the not strong enough and it is bogged down complaints. Unless the Government is pre­ in red tape. Everything has to be sent from pared to get off its tail and take action the country areas to the city. When I come against the persons supplying the goods, the to Brisbane I ring certain people on the board number of complaints will rise even further. and get a measure of satisfaction, but waiting six or eight weeks for an answer to a letter The honourable member for Rockhamp­ from a solicitor to the Builders Registration ton and I are respectively president and Board is not good enough. I should not have vice president of a voLuntary consumers' to ring up the board and say, "For God's sake association in Central Queensland. We feel answer this man's letter." Somewhere along that the establishment of this association the line the administration is falling down. was necessary. It assists people with com­ The board has not enough teeth and does not plaints about consumer products, and I appear game to take on contractors. The would suggest modestly that about one-third problems confronting the Builders' Registra­ of the work of the association involves the tion Board are similar to those experienced handling of complaints concerning consumer by the Small Claims Tribunal. items. We have had a fair measure of suc­ The use of motor vehicles is increasing cess. One reason is that, unlike the bureau, with the increase in population. At one time we do not have to go through the procedural a family had one car which was used to machinery. We make direct approaches to take mum, dad and the kids to the beach. companies and firms as part of a voluntary Nowadays mum has her car; dad has his and consumer association. But as members of in some instances their three children have 402 Address in Reply [14 SEPTEMBER 1976] Address in Reply

a vehicle each. One of my neighbours has Queen and His Excellency the Governor, Sir five cars in his yard. Owners of both new Colin Hannah. To the two newly elected and second·hand cars experience problems, members, the honourable member for Clay­ particularly those with second-hand cars. field (Mr. Brown) and the honourable mem­ Roadworthy certificates were introduced ber for Port Curtis (Mr. Prest), I offer my recently by the Government but many of congratulations and wish them well. them are not worth the paper they are written I wish to thank the Premier and all of the on. Firstly, they are valid for only a month. C3Jbinet Ministers for prompt action and In many instances a motorist buys a car in advice on the representations that I have good faith on the basis that Joe Blow at made on behalf of my constituents. I am the garage has gone over it and ticked off also grateful for the keen interest taken by all the items on the roadworthy certificate. the honourable members who have toured He says to himself, "It looks all right; it through the Gulf country, Cape York and the should be an right so I'll take it." If some­ Torres Strait. A lot has already been ach­ thing collapses one day after the month ieved but we still have a long way to go. expires-although it was already deteriorating and as a layman he could not pick it­ Mr. K. J. Hooper: You're still in the he is in trouble. An examination of some Dream time. roadworthiness certificates reveals that they Mr. DEERAL: The honourable member are filled out so that the details do not apply says that I am back in the Dreamtime. In to the car. "The Courier-Mail" today there appeared an The machinery inspector in Rockhampton article about the many tongues of Aborigines demanded that a garage keeper refund the from the Brisbane area that we no longer money on a car that he himself had sold and hear spoken by Aborigines. They have for­ that he had done the roadworthiness check gotten all about their past. They have lost on. When the pressure was put on him, he their language. However, I am happy to very quickly refunded the money. However, say that both the Federal and State Gov­ it should net be necessary to apply that ernments have realised the need for special pres.~ure. The Government should act in a education for people in isolated areas-for much sterner ''ay against offenders in this what we might call disadvantaged people; dis­ field. advantaged children. I have in my elector­ I have spoken about housing, electrical ate people who live in disadvantaged situa­ appliances and motor vehicles. We are get­ tions. ting more and more complaints every day Mr. K. J. Hoopcr: What have you done of the week, every week of the year, year for them? You've sold them out! after year; but the Government is doing nothing about it. Many members speak in Mr. DEERAL: An article appeared in "The this Chamber about specific problems in Cairns Post" a few months ago headed "Mig­ their electorates-schools, roads or other rant children are winning a battle of words facilities for their communities. However, at Dimbula school". I wonder if members we very seldom hear about the problems at from the opposite side-not all, but probably consumer level. We allow the powers that the one who is saying that I have not done be to treat consumers with contempt. Unless my part for my constituents-- the Government does something about it, Mr. K. J. Hooper: You haven't, either. the consumer will continue to suffer. I earnestly suggest that those responsible Mr. DEERAL: I thank the honourable in the field of consumer protection consider member for identifying himself. I wonder if the standardisation of consumer goods. Surely he has 'been there to visit the people who are we could implement it in at least some of the workers, who are trying to keep an industry basic goods. I realise that it is impossible going and who are fighters. They have a to cover the whole spectrum of consumer disadvantaged school where their own migrant goods and impose a standard for every teachers are teaching the children the Queen's product, but there are many products that English. standards can be set for. That is happening A few weeks ago, the Minister for Educa­ in other States and in other countries, so tion and Cultural Activities, through his why can't it happen in Queensland? The parliamentary education committee, saw fit to sooner it does, the better. At least we will set up the special education committee, of then have some measure of protection for which I am a member. I am proud to serve consumers of those products for which a on that committee because I appreciate the standard is set. need for it. We go off the track a bit by These problems I have mentioned, par­ thinking that we can teach our children in ticularly in the areas of unemployment and isolated areas the things that we can teach consumer protection, are vital to us, and I children in closely settled areas. I am happy reiterate that those who are responsible to see the creation of those two sections. should do something about them. A fortnight ago I was happy to attend a meeting of 50 Aboriginal members from all Mr. DEERAL (Cook) (2.42 p.m.): In over the State of Queensland. They met supporting the motion, I rise on behalf of and formed the Education Consultative Com­ the people of Cook to join in the earlier mittee. I believe that from this committee affirmations of loyalty to Her Majesty the we will get something worth while so that Address in Reply [14 SEPTEMBER 1976] Address in Reply 403 we will not have to read in the papers or That is what Father Dodson says. I always hear on the radio news of the rot that we ask myself, "What are land rights to have to listen to simply because certain Aborigines in Queensland?" people want to make themselves heard or be seen on television, trying to big-note Mr. K. J. Hooper: What sort of answer themselves. do you give yourself? One of the cuttings I have states "Labor Mr. DEERAL: I do not know. The hon­ claims Aboriginal funds wasted." I agree ourable member may be able to give an that Aboriginal funds were wasted. The answer because he is more educated than I funds were there for a purpose and to meet am. a need. I say that certain sections of the Government are to blame. We must look There are different attitudes to alcoholism at the over-all situation to find out where and I hope the Queensland Government will the money was wasted. see its way clear to come up with sound In the area I am more interested in, answers to the problem. especially around Cairns, a housing com­ Mr. Tenni: There is that circular road mittee was formed. Many Aboriginal being constructed right round Thursday people have spoken to me-and I am sure Island now. that the honourable member for Cairns will bear me out on this as a lot of them were Mr. DEERAL: Yes, that is being done and his constituents. They said, "The money it will ease unemployment there. that was given did not even reach the needy Mr. Tenni interjected. Aborigines at all and they are still living in old cars or old tanks down on the river Mr. DEERAL: To find out what the bank." people think, one need only go to the elec­ Mr. K. J. Hooper: Is the Premier going torate and speak to them. The honourable to find you a job if you are defeated at the member for Cairns is one member who can next election? back me when I say that the people say that at least something is now being done Mr. DEERAL: That is still in the future. for them. They now know who represents Now that the Government has seen fit to them. give finance for education and other things Mr. Jones: They are very concerned about to meet the need, I ask myself this question housing and education problems and I do not when I look especially at the Aboriginal and think the State Aboriginal housing plan is Islander side of it: Aboriginal education­ any more successful than the previous what for? Why are we educating our isolated Federal plan. If the honourable memoer children in the times that we are going wants my support, he must tell the truth. through now? I hope the Opposition has an answer to this problem if it does win the Mr. DEERAL: I mentioned the honour­ seat of Cook. able member because the Cairns district is Health is another field where a lot of work where all our people meet. He and I have is being done in the isolated areas. I commend worked well together and I hope this will the Minister for Health and the health teams continue for the benefit of his constituents and nurses who are working in these isolated and mine. areas. I hope that this work will continue. Mr. Tenni: There's a new school to be Up in the Torres Strait area, things did built at Chillagoe, too. not work out right with housing. There were six buildings that could not be shifted from Mr. DEERAL: Yes, and a school at Pet­ Cairns, and they stayed there for almost six ford is now open. months. The houses are there now and I hope the provision of housing in isolated I hope that tourism will receive a boost. areas continues. It is up to all members to talk with their constituents and tell them that there is beauty Alcoholism is another problem. I have in the North. But it may not always be with me a letter written by Father Patrick there. A letter appeared in the Press today Dodson, the first Aboriginal Catholic priest from Mr. Bob Hegarty, a former sergeant in Australia. Although I do not agree with of police at Cooktown. In his letter to "The some of the statements that he makes, he Cairns Post" Mr. Hegarty said that he was may well be right. But I would like to read dismayed and disgusted that, after more to the House this part of his letter- than four years of complaining and protest­ "I have been trying to find out the ing, nothing constructive had been done to causes of drinking in Aboriginal com­ halt the devastation of the North by the munities-the causes the Aboriginal people illegal plundering of wildlife and fish habi­ themselves identify, the approaches that tats. Honourable members will· know that have been taken towards remedying the this is really happening. About 20 years ago situation and the effect that drink is having when I was working up in the country north on the community, so far as one can of Cooktown, we could go to any place when judge in a short space of time like six the tide was out, put a stick through the months. The question of land rights is gills of a barramundi and take it back to at the root." camp. Today that cannot be done. 404 Address in Reply [14 SEPTEMBER 1976] Address in Reply

Whilst I am the member for the area I of Wolston. First of all, we have had new will continue to try to get across to the schools built. A new high school has been Minister the message from my constituents built and a new primary school is in the about the need to improve conditions in the course of erection. There is a pre-school North. J hope I will get full support from centre attached to almost every State school the Government and all members in time to in my electorate. A new opportunity school stop the rape of the North. has recently been opened-- Mr. MARGINSON (Wolston) (2.55 p.m.): Mr. Y ewdale: It is because of good repre­ I am the last speaker from the Opposition sentation. side in this debate. Every other member of the Opposition has already spoken. Mr. MARGINSON: The honourable mem­ ber for Rockhampton North assures me that Mr. Yewdale: And spoken very well. it is because of my good representation, and I take that to be so. Improvements to Mr. MARGINSON: That is correct. I the highway through my electorate have am the 11th speaker from the Opposition been carried out only because the highway side, and this reminds me of my younger was in such a dangerous condition. This days when 1 played cricket. I was always Government was compelled to make some the 11th man in to bat. improvements to the highway because of the i\1r. K. J. Hooper: What's more, you will number of fatalities which have occurred on carry your bat. it. There is one point I want to make to honourable members today, and that is that Mr. MARGINSON: I am sure I will. I it is not until this sort of thing happens that want to express not only my own loyalty but this Government emerges from the doldrums also that of the electors of Wolston to Her and gets on with a bit of work Improve­ Most Gracious Majesty Queen Elizabeth. ments have been effected on the highway­ I make no bones about expressing my per­ traffic signals, channelisation, and so on. sonal loyaJ,ty to Her Majesty. I want to say how pleased I was to see the Governor of My greatest grouch at the moment is that our State make his Opening Speech a few nothing is being done to improve the environ­ weeks ago. I have known him for many ment in which people in my electorate Jive. years. He was resident in the Ipswich city The Government has passed Acts on water area for quite a considerable time, and as quality control and air pollution, but no Deputy Mayor of that dty I met him on action has been taken under ·the provisions numerous occasions. Unfortunately, I can­ of those Acts. The legislation simply lies not say the same with respect to our there; no-one attempts to implement its Governor-General. Firstly, I have not met provisions. him. Secondly, I do not want to meet him. The Darra cement works is in my elec­ Thirdly, ] do not believe he should be torate, and you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, have Governor-General. That is how I feel about heard me ask questions about it and request our Governor-General, but I do want to the Minister to take action to remedy the say that I am a loyal subject of Her Majesty situation there. As late as today people who the Queen. are desirous of presenting a petition to the I represent a very industrialised electorate, Government came to see me. I am prepared possibly the most industrialised of aH to put it before Parliament when it has Queensland electorates. We have coal mines, been completed. woollen mills, brickworks-you name the A Government Member: Make sure it is industry and I am sure we have it in the in order. electorate of Wolston-and as a result we have many environmental problems which I Mr. MARGINSON: On the last occasion wish to mention shortly. I am proud to be mine was and the honourable member's was the member for Wolston and I am sorry not. I am prepared to put a petition before that I was not here last year during the Parliament because the position is so debate on the Address in Reply owing to unreasonable in that area. As the Minister illness and was thus unable to take part in for Local Government and Main Roads that debate. But I do want to thank the knows, there is a very bad noise problem electors of Wolston, belated though this may in the Oxley area. I could go on and on. be, for electing me. I am sure I will be Mr. Campbell interjected. returned after the next election, not only because of my work but because of an Mr. MARGINSON: I do not take any upswing in support for the Australian Labor notice of the Minister. He is just a little, Party. We will find that many Labor Party tiny fellow in this Parliament. I am not members will be successful at the next interested in him, so he might as well run election, whenever our arrogant and dic­ outside. He is not often here; this is one tatorial Premier decides to hold it. occasion on which he is. Despite the Premier's antagonism towards To the Government, quaJi,ty of life is only members of the Labor Party, and I say that a question of how much money people have quite seriously, I do believe that I have been in their pockets. There is much more to successful in having quite a number of quality of life than that. I ask the Govern­ improvements carried out in the electorate ment to take very seriously the problems in Address in Reply [14 SEPTEMBER 1976] Address in Reply 405 my electorate and do something about them. was elected not by the people of Queensland There is the Darra cement works with its but by this Parliament. That is the thing dust; there is the Oxley brick works with that rocked us. No wonder the people in its noise. Another problem that has come the southern States look upon us as hill­ to the surface recently is open-cut mining billies and on Queensland as a hick State. right up against residences. Fancy sending a chap like Field to Canberra Mr. Moore interjected. as senator! But the people gave him his just deserts. Mr. MARGINSON: They were there before Mr. Jensen: The Premier said they wanted the open-cut mining began, so the honourable a clown down there. member should not come in on that one. Mr. Moore: None of the residences was Mr. MARGINSON: If that was one of there before the mining began. the purposes in appointing him as senator, the move certainly succeeded. That's all :VIr. MARGINSON: The residents were he was and is-nothing other than a clown. there before open-cut mining began at Ebbw As I say, the people of Queensland soon Vale. showed the Government whom they prefer­ :VIr. Campbell: What about Darra? red between Colston and Field. Next we had the greart: loans investigation. 'VIr. MARGINSON: The honourable gentle­ Remember a man named Fancher? We have man is not listening. I suggest that he heard what the people of North Queensland continue reading his newspaper. He is sitting think about him. When Fraser was appointed in the Chamber, Mr. Deputy Speaker, read­ caretaker Prime Minister by the Governor­ ing the "Telegraph" and pretending that General, he had to enter into a pact with he has some sense. He thinks he knows the Governor-General that he would not go what J am talking about, but he has not further with the matter while he was care­ the slightest idea. taker Prime Minister. Because of that our Now Jet me deal with the Premier. It Premier came into the matter saying, "Mal­ was reported in the Press recently that a colm, I will do this for you." He spent Government member had said at a joint-party thousands and 'thousands of dollars of meeting, "Job, you're not God yet." Let Queenslanders' money in going to Sw1tzer­ us look at what the Premier has done. It land to investigate this affair. Our Premier was not so long ago that he wanted to is a man of many g1mmicks. In faot Queens­ secede from the rest of Australia. That, of land is governed by a Government of gim­ course, was when Whitlam was in Govern­ micks. It does nothing for the people of ment in Canberra. How stupid could he be! Queensland. Then he wanted the Queen to be the Queen Mr. Jones: Fancher subsequently went of Queensland. bankrupt. Mr. Campbell: Isn't she? Mr. MARGINSON: I am told he did. Mr. MARGINSON: Of course she is; but This is the sont of man thart: our Premier the Premier went to court and spent the ganged up with. He spent the people's taxpayers' money and still did not get money on an investigation that revealed any satisfaction. The Government took the nothing. No information whatever was matter to the Privy Council in London. That brought forward. Fancher, however, had a is how the Premier went on. lovely tour round the world at the expense of the Queensland taxpayers. In my opinion, one of the Premier's crowning glories during the last few years One of the most dastardly acts of the -and honourable members opposite were Premier, and a gimmick that was designed equally to blame for it-was the appointment to create some good image for the people of a man named Albe!'t Field to be a of Queensland, was his attempt to entice senator for Queensland. Indonesia to invade East Timor. There is a great silence amongst Government mem­ Mr. Ahern: A good manl bers now. The Premier told Suharto that Mr. MARGINSON: A good man! Did he was behind him. The Premier assumed the honourable member ever see Mr. Field the mantle of Australian Minister for For­ on television after he was appointed? No eign Affairs. This is the man who was wonder the people in the South call Queens­ reported in Saturday's Press as saying that land a hillbilly State. The Premier brought Chairman Mao slaughtered many people, in· a man named Albert Field into the Senate. cluding Christiam. This is ,the same man who, by his actions, was responsible for the Mr. Yewdale: Did you see where they slaughter of many people in East Timor, in­ put him on their how-to-vote cards for the cluding Australians-people who also were last Senate election? Christians. This is the man who says that Mr. MARGINSON: Yes. Did you see Chairman Mao slaughtered people. how many votes he got? He received about With the death of Chairman Mao Tse­ 1,000 votes. The Premier stood up in this tung-I am not afraid to say it-China lost Chamber and sang the praises of Albert a very good man. I make no bones what· Field. How ridiculous he was! What a dread­ ever about it. I have received information ful representative he turned out to be! He from a close relation of mine who lived in 406 Address in Reply (14 SEPTEMBER 1976) Address in Reply

China for three years to the effect that ence to the Minister for Police and the Chairman Mao was largely responsible for Commissioner of Police. The writ was issued the improved conditions that now prevail in in a deliberate attempt to stifle discussion China. The incidence of starvation in China in Parliament. has been completely eliminated. Under the previous regime, men were re­ The Premier has had some very question­ garded as nothing better than animals and able mining dealings. He now appears to were forced to carry around the war lords be branching out into building construction. of the day. But all this stopped under On previous occasions I have referred to Chairman Mao. Our Premier-as much as his mineral ventures. Honourable members I dislike him; I make no bones about it­ may recall that, some time ago, Nema Con­ shocked me when he said, when asked to structions Pty. Ltd. built schools and certain report on the death of Chairman Mao, "I other buildings in Queensland. Recently this have nothing whatever to commend him firm merged with Highland Gold Develop­ for." That was a shocking statement which ment, which is a company I referred to when showed his ignorance. As for his being a I was dealing with the Premier's mining Christian-and that is what he would like shares. I referred particularly to this com­ the people of Queensland to believe-his pany which has merged with Nema Con­ every action in this Parliament is most structions. Today, the merger is called unchristian. Nema Boldine:>. It is remarkable how many The Premier has talked about demonstra­ construction jobs that new company has tions. I remind honourable members that he received from this Government. lt is quite stopped the former Minister for Police (Mr. a number. Hodges) from proceeding further with an The Premier owns 21,000 shares in Oilmin. investigation into a demonstration that took place on Coronation Drive. I believe that Mr. Tenni: You got that out of "Impact", the Premier was in Cairns at the time and the Communist paper. You are probably the that he gave a flimsy excuse of wanting a editor. report on what had taken place. It was Mr. MARGINSON: I don't know what quite obvious that he intended to stop the the honourable member is talking about. investigation. I will tell him where I got it, if he wants I refer now to a demonstration in Perth to know. I will show it to him in the in April 1974 when the then Prime Minister "Nation Review" of 3 September, so he is of Australia was addressing a meeting. The wrong again. He is a half-wit. day after that demonstration the Minister for Local Government and Main Roads told Oilmin owns 140,000 shares in Nema Parliament during the debate on Matters of Holdings. That is the company that Bjelke­ Public Interest that he supported the people Petersen Enterprises has quite a lot of who demonstrated in Perth. I remind him of shares in. This is the company that the that and I hope that he is within hearing this Premier has shares in. Oilmin has quite a afternoon. He said that if people became big holding in this new construction company. so sour about a Government that will not be Transoil, another one that Bjelke-Petersen told what to do in the interests of the people, Enterprises had shares in-- he was right behind them in their demonstra­ tions. In Queensland we have a group of Mr. Tenni: You've told us all about that. people who consider that they are being victimised by the Government in many ways. Mr. MARGINSON: Don't be silly. You But when they wanted to demonstrate in a wer.en't here in those days. You've just way that the Minister for Local Govern­ arrived-and we can tell you have. ment said was right, they got hit on the head with police batons. And the Premier Mr. DEPUTY SPEAKER (Mr. Miller): said that that was quite all right, that the Order! demonstration was a breach of the Traffic Act! I urge all honourable members within Mr. MARGINSON: A man named Siller hearing to be careful. Under the present was managing director of Exoil No Liability. Queensland system, they should not be sur­ After I asked a question in this House at prised if they get hit on the head for breach­ the time Tarong was at its height and Exoil ing the Traffic Act, because the Prem­ tendered for some coal supplies to the ier says that is all right. proposed Tarong Power House, this Siller More recently we had the Cedar Bay was the man who rang up my then leader, incident. I shall leave the details of that Jack Houston, to get me to withdraw the to my colleagues who are hoping to discuss question because the Premier was also an it later; but I have no doubt that somebody interested party in the company. suggested to the sergeant in Cooktown that Mr. Jones: That isn't the same chap who he issue a writ to prevent the Labor Party has oil exploration rights in the Torres Strait, from discussing this matter in Parliament. is it? No-one can tell me that a sergeant of police, after issuing lawful orders to his subordin­ Mr. MARGINSON: That would be the ates, would issue a writ against an organ­ same one. Now it is plain why this offshore isation concerning that work without refer- business has come to light. Address in Reply [14 SEPTEMBER 1976] Address in Reply 407

This is our very honest, Christian-like levy whatsoever but later he said that we Premier. One of the worst things he ever in Queensland and not the Federal Govern­ did in the area of religion-and I am a ment should receive that levy. religious man; let there be no doubt about that-- Mr. K. J. Hooper: It is scandalous. Mr. Newbery: You don't sound it. Mr. MARGINSON: Very scandalous. Mr. MARGINSON: I am saying that I am. From what I have said about the Premier As the Minister has pushed me, I will tell think it must be agreed that he is bigot. him the story. I was shocked to see how I make no bones about saying that. With the Premier used his church at Kingaroy his gimmicks, he is a perfect humbug to shortly after he became Premier; he took Queensland. In my calculation he is a fraud the Press and TV representatives along to of the worst type. take photos of him singing hymns in his Mr. K. J. Hooper. He is a hypocrite. church. Mr. Campbell: You and I do it every Mr. MARGINSON: He is a hypocrite. I Sunday. What's wrong with that? forgot that. Generally speaking, I think that he is Mr. MARGINSON: We don't invite the drunk with power. That is what has hap­ media along. pened to the man. The sooner he leaves i\1r. Newbery interjected. us, the better it will be for Queensland. I will probably come back to him later on Mr. MARGINSON: I do it, and I believe because I do not like him. However, I must it is a necessity for me to do it. It is a say something else about him. necessity for the Minister to do it, if he would only go there. Somebody here referred to a question that I asked of the Premier about where all of I turn now to Medibank. This time last year, when Sir Gordon Chalk and Dr. the Ministers went during recess. They were Edwards were trying to get Queensland into scattered to the four corners of the world. the Medibank scheme as proposed by Hayden Mr. Campbell interjected. -Mr. Hayden-the Premier fought bitterly. He lost something like $20,000,000 for us Mr. MARGINSON: The Minister was through his procrastination. That should be away twice and the Minister for Aboriginal made known. Eventually we went into the and Islanders Advancement and Fisheries was scheme. He agreed to it, and he made it away three times. Not one of them has plain that he very reluctantly agreed to it. reported to Parliament. We do not know When Fraser got into Government-- what they have done-except spend the tax­ Mr. Campbell: "Mr." Fraser. payers' money. Mr. Camphell: Did you report to Parlia­ Mr. MARGINSON: The Prime Minister ment? said, "We are going to do away with our agreements with the States. We are not going Mr. MARGINSON: I reported to the to supply them with the money under people who appointed me. I am glad that Medibank." Didn't we all hear the hue the Minister asked that. I reported to the and cry from the Premier on that occasion? Commonwealth Parliamentary Association This is the very man who said it was no (Queensland Branch) in this very Chamber good for Queensland-the very man who lost and they were the people who sent me. I us some millions of dollars by his pro­ thank the Minister for the interjection crastination. But all of a sudden, when because it was very good. I was hoping for the Prime Minister-"Mr. Fraser", if the it; in fact I was pitching for it and poor Minister insists-said, "It doesn't go on any Fred came in. longer, boys.", the Premier threatened legal action. He threatened legal action against What did we find? The Premier would not the Federal Government over something that tell me the cost of the trips. I will not a few months previously he did not want. take up the time of the House to outline what I know of this matter or to tell the Then we had his outburst on the coal people what the Minister got when he went levy. The Federal Government imposed a levy of $6 a tonne on export coal. The on his overseas trip. Premier and the Minister for Mines and An Honourable Member interjected. Energy were protesting, and words like these were ~aid: "It will affect the coal industry; Mr. MARGINSON: I will tell the hon­ we wlll lose our exports; it will do no ourable member. I am not afraid to let him good for our industry and it is shameful." know. Immediately Mr. Fraser became Prime I have been here for eight years. Some Minister, the Premier claimed that the money honourable members were on overseas trips belonged to Queensland. It was not a within six months of coming to this Assembly. question of its not being imposed, as he One of them is sitting in the Chamber right had said under the Whitlam scheme-under now. As I said, I have been here for eight Mr. W:hitlam. Earlier, when it was introduced, years and until this year the Premier made he clmmed that there should have been no it clear that nobody from the Australian 408 Address in Reply [14 SEPTEMBER 1976] Address in Reply

Labor Party would attend a Commonwealth Minister. Then they, too, had a row. See Parliamentary Association Conferenc;e. He how often deceit comes in with Malcolm selected himself in conjunction with previous Fraser? Speakers--not the honourable member for Then Billy Snedden became Opposition Redcliffe. When we came back the executive leader. All members will remember how was formed and made lively. A meeting Fraser tried to undermine Snedden to become was held and the executive decided that Leader of the Opposition when the Labor representatives of each of the three political Government was in power. The first time parties would go in turn. As a result, it his cohorts tried to defeat Snedden with was the Labor Party's turn to go-the first Fraser, they missed out. And-imagine this! time since 1957. I was selected to go and -Mr. Fraser said, "I didn't know a thing I attended the conference in India. I received about it." He never knew a thing about it! my air fare and $1,000. How is that for deceit? Mr. Ahern: How did you decide that? Then they had another try. They had that notorious meeting in South Yarra one Mr. MARGINSON: The executive made Sunday night, just before Parliament resumed the appointment. while Whitlam was still Prime Minister. They defeated Snedden on that occasion and Do honourable members know what is Fraser became Leader of the Opposition. given now? The executive made the applica­ He said, "I didn't know a thing about it", tion to the Premier before I left. He knew vet it is recorded that he was in the vicinity that a Labor Party representative was going of that meeting that very night. Eventually and that I was the appointee. The present be became Prime Minister. But before that, member, who belongs to the Liberal Party, he told the people of Australia, "I believe got two air fares-for his wife and himself that an elected Government should run its -and $3,000. After eight years, I am not full term of three years." At the very time ashamed to say what I received. that he was saying that, he was right in with Mr. K. J. Hooper: You earned it. the Governor-General and, behind Whitlam's back, making sure that he appointed him as Mr. MARGINSON: I did. I believe that Prime Minister of Australia for a certain the Premier should tell us the cost of minister­ time. That illustrates the deceit that was ial trips. I want to make this one point. going on. Some time before I went, the executive asked But I think his greatest deceit was when the Premier to change those conditions. He he went to the polls telling the people, "We said, "No." But within two months of my will get rid of inflation." It is now worse return he increased the allocation to two than ever; that is my comment, not his. He air fares and $3,000. This is the man who said, "We will get rid of unemployment; it stands in this Parliament and pretends that is worse than ever." Isn't it still? When he is an image of goodness to the people. Billy Snedden was Leader of the Opposition, Mr. K. J. Hooper: He'll burn in hell. he said he could do it in a month. Mr. Fraser said, ''We will get rid of Mr. MARGINSON: No, I would not unemployment; we will keep prices down." say that. Honourable members know what the latest prices are. They are worse than ever before. Now I want to deal with the present Prime I hope some honourable members were Minister. He first went to the Federal Parliament from the electorate of Wannon, watching television last night. They would which he still represents. Prior to his entry have seen that prices have increased more into Parliament, Wannon was a Country than ever. Of course, Mr. Fraser tried to Party seat. Those with sufficiently good rob the poor pensioners of their funeral memories will remember that Malcolm Fraser benefits, and had it not been for the 27 came to the House with a push from a few Labor senators he would have done it, too. Liberals. There was quite a row about the An Honourable Member interjected. whole business. On Country Party preferences Malcolm Fraser became the new member Mr. MARGINSON: The honourable mem­ for Wannon. So he started off by pushing ber can take credit for his and I will take out the Country Party, supposed to be his credit for mine. Mr. Fraser condemned the mates in coalition, and taking the seat. overseas trips of the then Prime Minister. But what has happened now? Since he was After a few years in Parliament he deceived elected, Mr. Fraser has spent more time out John Gorton, who was then Prime Minister of Australia than he has in it; so has of Australia, when he was a Minister. Because Anthony and so have most of his other of Fraser's deceit, Gorton told him to get Ministers. The present Government con­ out of Cabinet. Fraser then said, "I will demned the Labor Government's proposals never serve under Gorton again." Gorton for restrictions on overseas investment in said that he would not have him. Then minerals, but they have continued to impose there was another change and a fellow those restrictions, and in some cases have named Billy McMahon became Prime Min­ made it even harder for overseas companies ister of Australia. Fraser fell out with to invest in minerals. Yet they condemned McMahon and McMahon accused him of Whitlam when those proposals were intro­ being very deceitful towards him as Prime duced. Address in Reply [14 SEPTEMBER 1976] Address in Reply 409

I could go on and on about what was outside this Chamber to reverse that demo­ promised and has not been done, but as my cmtic decision, and I suppose one must ask: time is running out I want to say something Why this change of policy? In whose interest about a question I asked recently in the are these decisions being made? If the House. l asked the Minister for Health action of Sir John Kerr had been illegal. if it was true that a firm named Civil surely the matter should have been taken & Civic Ply. Ltd. was building a hos­ to the court. pital in Queensland and if tenders had been Labor in Western Australia has already called. The outcome of it all is that tenders taken a step by suggesting that the office of were not called, yet under the Hospitals Governor should be abolished, and no doubt Act tenders must be called for any contracts Labor in Queensland will follow suit, as worth in excess of, I think, $1,000. The has Labor in other States. If the hand of whole thing was smothered up with some restraint, which I believe is now exercised suggestion that Civil & Civic had obtained by State Governors and by the Governor­ some quotes from subcontractors. As a General, is removed, the democratic decision result the Government accepted this quotation of the people reversed and the safety valve of Civil & Civic embracing those quotes of the Constitution destroyed, I think we are from subcontractors and yet the total amount in for a very bad time. of the contract was $766,000. I know there v-as a rumpus at the National Party con­ I say here and now that this campaign ference in Cairns about Cabinet giving out must, and will, fail. We must see that it work without calling tenders. The people fails. If the Governor-General's actions were who caused the rumpus were soon hushed unconstitutional, why were they not chal­ up, and I am wondering how many tenders lenged in the court? I ask members of Nema Holdings obtained by the same meth­ the Opposition: in the absence of the ods. Governor, who would put the seal of legality on legislation passed in this House? Would An Honourable Member: It is fishy. it be a person from the Opposition benches. Mr. MARGJNSON: It is very fishy. or would it be a Labor Government legis­ lating at the request of the militant unions? With my time running short, Mr. Deputy Speaker, I will conclude by expressing the Opposition Members interjected. loyalty of the people of Wolston and of myself to our Queen. Mr. WARNER: How on earth can any Government restore peace and stability to Mr. WARNER (Toowoomba South) (3.34 the political scene in Australia if the Gov­ p.m.): I have concluded from the remarks ernment and members of the Parliamentary of the previous speaker that he certainly does Labor Party are being consistently under­ not like our Premier-- mined by Left-wing strikes? Public opinion is mounting against such strikes, and these Mr. K. J. Hooper: Who does? continual radical strikes will tear this country Mr. WARNER: I certainly do. I also apart; there is no doubt about that. Surely concluded that he does not like Mr. Fraser members of the Opposition must have to or our form of Government. In making my wrestle with their consciences-if they have affirmation of loyalty to the Queen and the any-when they have to submit to the ever­ Throne, I do so not as a mere formality but increasing demands of the Left-wing move­ from a deep sense of conviction because I ment. believe in the Constitution as it stands today Mr. K. J. Hooper: You are a prisoner and because J view with great concern what of the League of Rights. has just been said and I view with great concern and apprehension recent statements Mr. WARNER: No sir! No doubt the by members of the Opposition in this House Leader of the Opposition in this Chamber, and members of the Labor movement in like other members of his party, does not general about moves to abolish the office know which way to turn. Or does he? of Governor"General and that of State Gov­ The problems and troubles that plague ernors as well, and after what was said by Labor are many, and Labor as we used to the previous speaker, I believe-- know it in Queensland, and as many members Mr. K. J!. Hooper interjected. opposite knew it, has gone. Labor as they know it today is no longer the same party Mr. WARNER: Yes, and the honourable as it was yesterday. It has different shades member has not changed his policy on it and different styles. What is said by the for a long time. Labor's platform and con­ Left-wing Labor members of this House to stitution has always provided for the retention promote this is outlandish political nonsense. of Governors, the honourable member might as you have just heard, Mr. Speaker, and remember. As far as I am aware, the only it is in direct contradiction of what is said proviso was that Australian citizens should by the more moderate members of the Labor be elevated to those positions of eminence movement. There are some of them still instead of the customary appointees from left on the Opposition benches. I might the United Kingdom. It is quite apparent say that that is very evident from the attitudes that a campaign is now being waged and and speeches of some members of the directed by members of the Labor Party Opposition in this Parliament. Only last 410 Address in Reply [14 SEPTEMBER 1976] Address in Reply week, I think, the honourable member for I wish to cite the case of the neighbour Rockhampton said that Governors are of no of a property owner in my electorate who use. decided to build a dividing fence. This mat­ Mr. K. J. Hooper: That's right; they are ter comes under the Dividing Fences Act. useless anachronisms. The property owner sought the payment of half of the cost of erection from the neigh­ Mr. WARNER: Of course, the honourable bour, a student at the Darling Downs Insti­ member who interjected has also said it. tute of Advanced Education in Toowoomba. The student's wife worked so ,that he could Mr. SPEAKER: Order! The honourable afford to continue his s,tudies and so that member will address the Chair, and honour­ they could pay off their home. They had no able members on my left will refrain from money available to cover the part cost of persistent interjections. erection of the fence and they intimated to Mr. WARNER: The speech of the honour­ the property owner that they could not afford able member for Bundaberg was certainly to pay any part of the cost. This statement worth hearing and should be repeated. was repeated many times. The year 1976 must, I believe, be viewed The fence was duly erected, under pro­ with grave concern-! certainly view it with test from the young couple. When the fence grave concern-because of the unrest which was completed the builder approached the has caused violence in the streets and in young couple again and was told that they the universities. The strikes, the abuse of could not pay. They said they did not even the Prime Minister, the abuse that we have have sufficient finance to pay half the cost heard here today of the Premier and the of erection. WHhout their knowledge the abuse of the Queen's representative, Sir John builder consulted a solicitor. To the con­ Kerr, has caused a feeling of unrest and sternation of the young couple, they found uneasiness throughout the State. a bailiff on their domstep demanding the payment of $100 or goods in lieu thereof. What is to come next? I do not believe The bailiff, with a police officer present, it is pure coincidence that strikes inspired by served a court order on the young couple Left-wing unions are held for the benefit of and then, with the police officer, forcibly the unions themselves. They are certainly removed from the young couple's home not being held for the benefit of the union­ furniture, including a TV set and a stereo­ ists. In the past strikes were conducted by gram, to the value of more than $1000. The unions in support of campaigns to obtain goods were removed in a utility without any benefits for their members. Today, how­ covering or protection of any kind. No ever, they are held to destroy the safety and receipt was given for the goods taken, nor protection afforded by our Constitution. The was any information given as to where they campaign of the trade unions must fail, and could be recovered. we will ensure that it fails. I have no doubt that the bailiff was per­ In reply to a question, the Deputy Premier forming his duty as he saw it under the and Treasurer, on behalf of the Premier, law, but surely his actions were an infringe­ stated that 'the position of Governor in this ment of the rights of the individual. That State should be entrenched by Parliament such an invasion of the man's home could so that it could never be abolished except by occur wi,thout his being given the oppor­ the will of the people. That statement is tunity to find the money or even appeal one of the most important statements ever against the injustice is deplorable. In addi­ made in this House. The sooner legislation tion to having to go to great lengths lo is introduced to permanently entrench ,the recover the furniture, ~he young couple are position of Governor in this State, the better. upset at having had placed upon them the A matter that has been mentioned qu1te s·tigma of a court order. Eventually, after often in this Parliament since my election to much time and ado, the furniture was it is the right of the individual and the right returned. But not before the expenditure of of entry onto an individual's property. The $180 that the student had to borrow from right of the individual has been emphasised his in-laws. When it is considered that the quite rightly by members on both sides of original amount owing was $100, this seems the House, and in most instances our legis­ to be a great injustice. The $180 represented lation and regulations record the fullest pro­ court costs, police fees and transport costs. tection of the individual's rights not only What would have happened if the young w[thin his own home but also in the sur­ couple had not been able to borrow this rounding area. It is with this in mind that money? The law is clear: if the money could I express concern at the right of entry by not have been raised in a certain time, the any Government official or appointee to en­ $1,000 worth of goods would have been sold force a court order without any considera­ for $100. tion being given to the rights of the individual The second case, which may be a contra­ against whom the court order is taken out. diction, was taken under the Dividing Fences I have had many instances of invasion of Act. The cattle belonging to one farmer privacy brought to my attention, and I am were destroying the crops of another. The quite sure that within my electorate there owner of the cattle was approached to er~ct are many nther instances that have not been a fence or to have it erected for him and brought to my notice. pay half the cost. After all appropriate Address in Reply [14 SEPTEMBER 1976] Address in Reply 411

action had been taken to notify him, the The first indication of trouble is the ser­ fence was erected. Everything that could be vice of a writ issued by a solicitor demand­ done was done. The offending party was ing payment. In these circumstances many taken to court and although judgment was older people and pensioners are so horri­ taken out against him, apparently there was fied that they pay up immediately even if no way of forcing him to pay. A magistrates the work is not completed or has been done court can order a farmer to pay costs in in a very bad way. Others who have con­ respect of a dispute under this Act and then sulted solicitors are so embarrassed by the inform the farmer that because the court cost involved that they usually end up being made no order in default of payment there advised by their solicitors to pay, as that was no action that the clerk of the court would be the cheapest way out. I believe could take to enforce the order. that this is intimidation at its very worst and must not be countenanced. At present there An Opposition Member: Did you make is no recourse to arbitration for such people, representations on his behalf? oth~r than through legal aid or, at great cost, solicitors. Many people in my area believe Mr. WAl~NER: l surely did. that the Consumer Affairs Bureau can help How on earth can one relate the injustice them, but in such cases it is worse than of one against the other? No doubt some useless. honourable members may say that he could Mr. K. J. Hooper: That's true. We've have recourse to solicitors and legal aid, but been saying that for years. in every electorate there are people who do not know that legal aid is available to them. Mr. WARNER: Then I agree with the At the same time they are frightened of honourable member. taking a matter to a solicitor. For that matter, why should a person be imposed That brings me to the subject of legal upon in such a way by having his furniture aid and just how easy it is for the unprin­ removed from his home without his consent. cipled tradesmen themselves to apply for legal aid and get it. In more than one case Mr. Houston: That is your Government's in Toowoomba unregistered tradesmen-and policy. painters in particular-have used legal aid to recover amounts, even though the work Mr. WARNER: It is a past law. in most cases was unfinished and of a poor Mr. Houston: You have not changed it. standard. Just how easy it is to get legal aid is obvious from a pamphlet that has been Mr. WARNER: Perhaps we should. That published. If a person in Toowoomba asks is what I am advocating. for an application form, all he has to do is say that he does not have $5,000 in the bank, Mr. Houston: The Government has been or some such thing. He is given a form and in oflice for years. is then told where to get legal aid. Mr. WARNER: The honourable member The plight of the rural industry in Queens­ has been here for years. He should have land and in Australia, like so many subjects done something about it long ago. that have been raised by honourable mem­ bers today, is a very serious problem. The I have a duty, on behalf of 9,000 or more future of whole regions, and of the farmers pensioners of Toowoomba-that is a fairly and graziers in them, has become grim-and high number in a population of 64,000- that is a very mild term to express what I to put before the House certain facts con­ am now about to say. Graziers are not cerning the malpractice of some so-called surviving the present economic recession. In tradesmen who are fleecing pensioners right fact, all primary and secondary industries are and left without compunction by using suffering. Survival has proved to be beyond shoddy material and poor workmanship. the hope of many businesses. It is frighten­ What is even more serious, they are employ­ ing to me-and must be of great concern ing standover tactics to intimidate pen­ to members of this Government and, I hope, sioners into handing over money for con­ to members in the Opposition-to reflect on tracts that have not been carried out pro­ how many more businesses, large and small, perly or are in the process of being carried are tf' suffer the same experience. out. Many unsuspecting pensioners enter contracts by \'

Mr. Tenni: Who did away with the Upper Today I want to address myself to three House? things, firstly, the Auctioneers and Agents Mr. MILLER: We all know that it was Act, secondly, trading hours in Queensland the Labor Party who did away with the and, thirdly, the invasion of the privacy of Upper House in Queensland. Again I say individuals. I shall commence with the that no other Labor Government anywhere Auctioneers and Agents Act. in Australia has followed the lead of the Labor Party of that time in Queensland. It is Mr. Lindsay: What a mess tha~ cs .. recognised in all the other States that the Upper House is a safeguard for the people. Mr. MILLER: I could not agree more. I know of no move whatever in Queensland Today I call on the Government to do to reintroduce the Upper House, yet there something about it because I am not satisfied are moves to do away with State Governors. that motor vehicle dealers should come under Heaven help us if ever the Labor Party the provisions of the Auctioneers and Agents becomes the Government of this State. It Act. The information I have in front of me would abolish the office of Governor and today relating to motor dealers sickens me. then there would be not only no Upper I suggest that the Government should ser­ House but no Governor to consider legislation iously consider taking the responsibility for passed by the House. motor dealers and motor vehicle salesmen Mr. Houston: Has a Bill from this Chamber out of the portfolio of Justice, because I do ever been rejected by a Governor? not feel that the Office of the Cnmmissioner for Corporate Affairs has the personnel Mr. MILLER: I refer the honourable required when it comes to dealing with minor member to the decision of the Governor­ matters concerning motor-car dealers General only last year. Mr. K . .J. Hooper: Whitc-collaT ,;rime. Mr. Houston: I mean a State Governor. I\Ir. MILLER: The honourable member for Mr. MILLER: I have the greatest respect Archerfield mentions white-collar crime. l for any Governor-General and any State know that he has discussed whit:=-col!ar crime Governor and I believe that all in such in this Chamber many, many times, Let me offices will_ act in th~ interests of the people say that I whole-heartedly agree with his of Australia or their State. Irrespective of remarks about white-collar crime. What I the political colour of Governments Gov­ am suggesting today would relieve the pres­ ernors hold their office to represe~t the sure on the men from the Corporate Affairs Sovereig~ and as _a safeguard for the people. Commissioner's Office and enable them to The actiOn of Sir John Kerr is a typical deal with white-collar crimes, because I do example of what can happen when a not believe that the personnel available in Government goes wrong. that office are adequate in number to deal Mr. Houston: What about State Governors? with white-collar criminals and the other petty criminals to whom I would not give Mr. MILLER: I am not aware of any the kudos of referring to them as white­ Government in the State sphere doing what collar criminals. As a matter of fact, I do the Labor Party did in Canberra in the three not think they wear a shirt at all; I believe years preceding 1975. We saw in 1975 an they go around in a J acky Howe singlet. I example of protection of the people by the am referring to those unscrupulous car dealers representative of Her Majesty. Her repre­ who want to take down not only the ordinary sentative holds his office to look after the people of the community, but our age interests of the people. I should be happy to pensioners. hear from the honourable member for Bulimba if he can name any State that took I want to refer honourable members today the action taken by the previous Prime to the number of times I have rung the Minister when he tried to sell Australia. I Corporate Affairs Commissioner's Office in do not know of any State Government regard to the problem I have on my plate at the moment. I first contacted the office irrespective of its political colour, that stooped on 28 June, and subsequently on the follow­ as low as the Federal Government stooped ing dates: 9 July; 13 July; 22 July; 3 August; under the leadership of Mr. Whitlam. 4 August; 5 August; 17 August; 19 August The honourable member for Bundaberg and 26 August. I then stopped ringing the spoke about matters mentioned in the Gov­ Corporate Affairs Office. I then started ernor's Opening Speech. Today I want to ringing the Main Roads Department and the speak about matters that were not covered Labour Relations and Consumer Affairs in the Governor's Opening Speech, because Department because I do not believe that I am yery. concerned about the way things the Corporate Affairs Office has the time or are gomg m Queensland. I do not believe the personnel to do anything about my in change for the sake of change. I believe problem. What is my problem? It is this: it is a highly improper and dangerous there are people in this city who make them­ course, but when change is necessary and selves out to be licensed motor-car dealers. appears to be ignored by a Government, then They have even described themselves as I believe that inaction is detrimental to our licensed dealers on my electoral roll when State and its people. in fact they are not dealers at aH 414 Address in Reply [14 SEPTEMBER 1976] Address in Reply

I have within my electorate a senior people of Queensland, "We will protect you citizen-a man getting on in years-who from this type of person." Are we protect­ saw an advertisement in a ne,wspaper. He ing them? The information I have here wanted to buy a car because his car was old, so he rang the man whose name was shows that we are not. We are not protecting mentioned in that advertisement. He went to senior citizens; we are not even protecting see him and decided to buy the car. the ordinary people of this State. Singleton I want to say, first, that a roadworthiness has been responsible for over 40 sales of certificate was supplied with the vehicle motor vehicles. although the car was not roadworthy; secondly, the man gave his name as Mick I might point out, too, that in not one of Singleton Used Cars, and signed a receipt those sales has Mr. Singleton ever bothered accordingly, \vhereas he was not a licensed to apply to the Main Roads Department for dealer; and, thirdly, he gave a receipt in transfer of registration. Imagine the chaos the name of Grey Street Motors, and Grev that is being caused when transactions such Street Motors deny any knowledge of Mr. as these are allowed to go on. This is one Singleton. Frankly, I cannot believe Grey unregistered used car dealer who admits to Street Motors, because I have in my posses­ more than 40 sales of cars and who has not sion details of another case in which Grey transferred one registration. My senior Street Motors actually delivered a vehicle citizen was driving around in a car regis­ so.ld by Mick Singleton. I should say that, tered not in his name but in the name of Without any shadow of a doubt, there Is some Grey Street Motors. That is not good enough. sort of agreement between Grey Street Another 40 persons are driving cars that Motors and Mick Singleton Used Cars. are still registered in the names of the previous owners because Singleton has not bothered to Unfortunately, Corporate Affairs could transfer the registration to the new owners. not do anything about the case. As I said Furthermore, he has not even bothered to it has been going on since 28 June. What ensure that roadworthiness certificates have concerns me is that this car was sold by a been issued upon the sale of a number of motor-car dealer who has never been ques­ these vehicles. In some instances he even tioned by Corporate Affairs. falsified roadworthiness certificates or induced Mr. Yewdale: You are speaking about service stations to issue them on the promise only one of thousands of cases. that he would remedy the faults in the vehicles. Mr. MILLER: It is all very well for the honourable member to say that. I do not My senior citizen's car is presently being know of any other way of overcoming these held at rthe service station that issued the problems than by bringing them before the certificate of roadworthiness on it. When he House. Surely, if we are to solve these prob­ complained to me about the unroadworthy lems, we must expose those engaged in this condition of the vehicle, I approached Mick illicit trading. Singleton Used Cars and Mick Singleton To me, there is no-one lower than a man immediately took the vehicle to the service who will seize the opportunity to take down station and asked that the car be repaired. a senior citizen of this country. That is what That was on 28 June. The car is still at the is happening under the present Government, service station and is being held because and nothing is being done about it. That is the account has not been paid. Where does why I say that this area of responsibility that leave my senior citizen? He has paid should be taken out of the control of Cor­ $450 for the car and he could well lose it porate Affairs and put into the hands of because $250 is owing for repairs effected to either the Department of Labour Relations it. The service station issued a roadworthi­ and Consumer Affairs or the Department of ness certificate, leading my senior citizen to Main Roads. I suggest the Department of believe that the car was in a roadworthy Main Roads because I have had more satis­ condition whereas in fact it was not. faction from the police working within t!"!at Mr. Y ewdale: What were the type of department than I have had from either the repairs? Department of Labour Relations and Con­ sumer Affairs or the Corporate Affairs Com­ Mr. MILLER: I am not prepared to detail missioner's Office. Corporate Affairs has them in the short time remaining at my given me no satisfaction. The Department disposal. The list is quite a lengthy one, of Labour Relations and Consumer Affairs and as the cost of the repairs is $250 the has told me what I have known already. honourable member could well imagine the Police officers in the Department of Main type. As I say, the service station is asking Roads have told me a little more than I for the payment of $250 for repairs carried knew. out on a car in relation to which it had I now know that Mick Singleton is noth­ issued a roadworthiness certificate. ing more or less than a criminal. He has Mr. Yewdale: A roadworthiness certificate ?een up. on a number of charges of stealing covers only certain parts of the vehicle, m addition to a number of other charges, doesn't it? yet today he is still advertising used cars for sale through Jhe news media. ~vVe say to the Mr. MILLER: That is right. Address in Reply [14 SEPTEMBER 1976] Address in Reply 415

My senior citizen has not had the use of I am concerned that the surveys in my the car since 28 June. As I say, Mick Single­ electorate indicate that both shoppers and ton Used Cars has not paid the account. shop assistants want a change. It can be What sort of safeguards are we giving the said surely that shop assistants do not want people of Queensland if we allow that type to work on Saturday mornings, of thing to occur? Mr. K. J. Hooper: They are entitled to The repairs to the vehicle were authorised two consecutive days off. not by my senior citizen but by Mick Single­ ton Used Cars. I was told by the garage Mr. MILLER: I realise that, but I point proprietor that Mick Singleton authorised out that in my letter to the shop assistants the repairs, and now, because he will not of my electorate I said that three altern­ meet the oost of the repairs, my senior atives could be open to them. I wrote to citizen either pays the $250 or loses his car. them after the Premier released a Press Mick Singleton's actions are criminal, yet I statement intimating that Queensland shop­ can find nothing in our Aots, regulations or ping hours could be changed. I sought the by-laws to protect people from unscrupulous advice of shop assistants in my electorate. persons who engage in such conduct. I told them that I saw these three altern­ I ask: how many other people in Brisbane atives: (1) fiexi-hours could be introduced are caught in the same situation? Any used­ if they wanted to involve themselves in that car firm, having authorised a service station system; (2) Thursday or Friday night trading to repair a vehicle, could refuse to pay the in lieu of Saturday morning if they so cost of repairs, thereby forcing the owner wished; (3) an extra night could be worked of the vehicle to accept responsibility for in addition to the normal working hours, the payment. which would involve the payment of over­ time and higher prices for goods. In reply, The car in the case to which I refer is 99 per cent of shop assistants said, "We not worth $450. However, having paid $450 want Thursday night in lieu of Saturday for it my senior citizen is now faced with the morning." They did not want flexi-hours prospect of paying a further $250 to have it or overtime. Perhaps it is an indictment of released by the service station. It may be all Federal Governments that no shop assist­ better for him to call it quits-to opt out­ ant from my electorate who wrote to me but surely that is not the point. The point wanted overtime. Nobody wanted fiexi­ is that we as legislators have not overcome hours. All wanted Thursday night trading in the troubles with motor-car dealers an.d lieu of Saturday morning so that they could roadworthiness of vehicles. Are we con­ enjoy their week-ends like everybody else. cerned about motor-car dealers and having vehicles roadworthy? If we are, let us ta;ckle Some 12 months ago I carried out a the problems in Queensland. If I can find survey among the shoppers of my electorate, more than 40 cases, how many can the and they indicated to me that they. would Government find? There must be hundreds. like to see a change in shopping hours We have failed-and failed dismally-in and that they were prepared to go along this area. with shopping on a Thursday night or a Friday night. I do not know who in the joint parties was responsible for leaking to the news media Mrs. Hatton is concerned about the small that the honourable member for Toowong shopkeeper. So am I; I am very concerned and I were defeated decisively in a ballot over about his plight. I am so concerned that taking a look at trading hours. The time has I believe we should have a change in shop­ come in Queensland to look at shop trading ping hours. This is why Mrs. Hatton said hours. I know that on 9 September, Mrs. that the chain stores, major supermarkets, Hatton said that Queensland could lose 40 one-stop complexes and the discount food per cent of its small retail business if unre­ barns are aggressive competitors. Of course stricted trading hours are introduced. I agree, they are! But what are we doing? Are we but neither the honourable member for Too­ going to close our eyes to the problem? wong nor I said that we wanted unrestricted Are we going to say that we won't change trading hours introduced. About two years what is going on? Are we going to ignore ago I conducted a survey of shoppers in my all that she has said? Or are we going electorate to find out what they wanted. Less to have an inquiry to see what is going than 1 per cent of the shoppers wanted to happen to the Mum and Dad stores­ unrestricted trading hours, but over 80 per the grocery stores-in our electorates? What cent wanted a change in trading hours. An about the small draperies in our electorates? ostrich who puts his head in the sand is Are they entitled to compete against these likely to get his seat burnt-and it could one-stop complexes? I think they are. But well be the seat of members of this Gov­ if we are prepared to put our heads in ernment who are not prepared to look at the sand, then the small stores will not be this problem. I believe that we should able to carry on. establish an all-party committee to look at A number of people in the Liberal Party trading hours in Queensland. are not prepared to look at this problem, Mr. Houston: With a ratio of 10 to 2? but I am one who is prepared to come out and say, "We have a problem, and I want Mr. MILLER: I do not care if it is one to look at it." I ~m concerned about the to one. small shopkeeper--! don't care whether he 416 Address in Reply [14 SEPTEMBER 1976] Address in Reply has a small grocery store or a small hard­ Mr. Houston: You can't do that as a ware store. Irrespective of what he has, member. if it is a small store in the suburbs he has a problem. He has to compete with the Mr. MILLER: That is quite right, but one-stop complex. He has to compete with finance companies can and I want to know these huge establishments where a person where we are heading concerning the privacy can drive in and buy everything under the of the people of Queensland because surely one roof. However, if we are concerned to God we in this State have the right to some about rank-and-file residents in our-elector­ privacy. ates-about the people who want to go This boy did not owe any money to down to the local store at 4.30 on a Saturday Maddison Finance Company. The company afternoon-we won't ignore this problem. did not apologise to the boy's mother because she had to pay the $2.38. It merely Something has to be done about the shop­ said, "We have to collect our money the ping hours in this State. I agree with the best way we can." But this is not the best secretary of the Shop Assistants' Union in way. Because I am concerned about where New Scuth Wales, Mr. Barry Egan, that we are going concerning the privacy of the an inquiry should be carried out to see what individual, I call on the Minister for Local the people of Queensland want. If the Government and Main Roads to ensure that people of Ithaca want a change-and that in future no such information is passed out is what m) surveys indicate-then I think to any finance company or to anybody else an inquiry by an all-party committee is unless he is a member of Parliament acting warranted. in his normal course of duty. The find matter I wish to raise is invasion While talking about individuals and priv­ of privacy. I was amazed when one> of my acy-I was a little concerned to read on electors brought it to my attention that Wednesday, 25 August, of a girl being mol­ he had received a telegram from a finance ested at Mt. Coot-tha. The news media company demanding certain money, when in decided to print her name and address. This fact he v. as not the person concerned. The is most unfortunate. This girl is an invalid company involved v, as the Maddison Finance pensioner. She had been drinking in a hotel Company.. I was amazed to discover that with another woman and two men and had Maddison Finance Company-or any other been enticed out to Mt. Coot-tha by that finance company, for that matter-can ring trio. The thought I leave with the Chamber up the Main Roads Department and, without is this: half of the rat-bags in Brisbane today, giving a registration number. find out the having read that, would say, "Here is a address::~, of all people with a particular sur­ girl living at such-and-such an address that name. we can pick up. Let us go around and pick her up." Surely there is no need for the I can understand that a person could news media to print the name and address ring up the department and say, "I have of the girl caught in such circumstances-an had a coliision with QXY" or whatever the invalid pensioner being taken by two men number is. "Would you please give me the and a woman and being used for a particular owner's name, because I have not been able purpose; and yet the news media decided to to ascertain it?" What I was amazed to print her name! find out was that Maddison Finance Com­ pany could ring up the Main Roads Depart­ How many times have I read a story in the news media and not been able to find ment and say, "How many Robert Thomases out the name of the culprit! It would have have you got registered with you?" The been known to the police and to many organ­ Main Roads Department hands out to any isations, but the news media would not print finance company a list of all of the Robert it in case they were liable at law. In this Thomases it has. One Robert Thomas lives case, the girl should have been protected and in my electorate. His mother received a was not. The news media should have a telegram addressed to him, for which she very close look at themselves to determine had to pay $2.38, telling him that he owed whether this sort of information should be Maddison Finance Company a certain amount printed. By all means print the story, but of money. I fail to see what damage would have been Mr. Casey: She had to pay for the 'tele­ done to the story had the name of the girl gram, too? and her address been omitted. I do not believe that we should entice or encourage Mr. MILLER: Exactly. the low element of this State by giving out the names and addresses of girls who could I rang that finance company and was be picked up. I am very much concerned informed that she would be refunded the about what is going on. I hope the Govern­ cost of the telegram because it was obviously ment will take cognisance of the situation and not the Robert Thomas that the company was that in the future some of the problems that looking for. But that is not the point. The I have brought up can be solved. point is that a finance company can ring a Government department and, with no record Mr. KAUS (Mansfield) (4.35 p.m.): It is of a collision, ask the department how many a pleasure to support the motion for the Robert Thomases or Joe Blows it has reg­ adoption of the Address in Reply. In istered. particular, I should like to congratulate its Address in Reply (14 SEPTEMBER 1976] Address in Reply 417 mover and seconder. It was moved by one Zupps have been active in the driver-train­ of the two new members, Mr. Ivan Brown, ing scheme for some years, and have already who won the seat of Clayfield at the last made vehicles available to other high schools by-election. I also congratulate the new in the area. I commend the parents on their member for Port Curtis, Mr. Bill Prest, who willingness to provide such training. It is solid won his seat for his party. proof of their desire to ensure that their Mr. K. J. Hooper: You were up there. sons and daughters become fully aware of safe and correct driving procedures before Mr. KAUS: Yes, I was up there doing taking a licence test. This off-the-road a job, but I saw Mr. Prest only once in instruction will go a long way towards pro­ three days. We had a bit of a tussle, which viding students with experience in vehicle­ we all enjoyed, in street-corner meetings. I handling and stand them in good stead whc:n congratulate both new members on the man­ they eventually purchase their own cars. ner in which they delivered their maiden As honourable members know, today speeches. learning to drive is regarded as one of the I wish to associate my electorate with my processes through which most individuals pledge of loyalty to Her Majesty the Queen. have to go sooner or later, and they must I also pay a tribute to His Excellency and come to terms with this. Educational w.:>rk Lady Hannah for the way in which they is being carried on throughout the world to carry out their work in travelling round the prepare drivers for entry into the traffic State and meeting the people. environment, but the problems associated At this stage I should also like to pay a with driver-training are unique. The over-all tribute to our retired leader and to wish Sir impression is of a different method of teach­ Gordon and Lady Chalk all the best in their ing driving to that of teaching other sub­ retirement. Sir Gordon made an immense jects. Driver-training consists of imparting contribution to both this State and this House. knowledge of basic principles and simple The developments for which he was mainly rules to the pupil in such a way that they responsible in this State over the last 10 remain in his mind and are always acted years will stand as wonderful monuments to upon in times of stress. I refer particularly him. to inattention and distraction at the early stages of driving. In order to produce a safe Mr. K. J. Hooper: You are unlucky you driver one must be sure that at no stage is didn't fill the Cabinet vacancy. any damage done to the learner's self-con­ Mr. KAUS: Those things don't worry me. fidence, and it is imperative that the terrors I never get upset. of traffic are not inflicted upon the beginner before he can handle a car proficiently. There are a few points that I should like Of course, teaching another person to to put before the House. As some of the drive means taking on a very heavy respon­ Estimates will not be debated this year, I should like to refer now to one or two sibility. I made this point in my speech at matters concerning schools in my electorate. the school because these teachers are not There are also some things that must be under the instruction of officers of the Road said on the Mt. Gravatt Showground issue. Safety Council. They are members of the p. and c. association who are contributing to Mansfield is a very fine electorate. It a worthy cause, and no doubt doing the job contains about 13 schools and its people are very thoroughly, but clearly the immediate marvellous. I do not have any of the worries concern is to ensure that the instructor is and troubles that other members have. It proficient in the art of imparting his know­ is very gratifying to be on good terms with ledge of driving. Firstly, his own driving all p. and c. associations and teachers. There should be as nearly perfect as possible, or he are, however, a few things that I should like could pass on his own faults and mistakes. to mention today concerning the MacGregor Once he begins to teach and demonstrate the High School. I have been making repre­ various techniques to pupils, he will settle sentations to have conditions improved for into a routine. Therefore, it is essential that the senior staff. I know that the headmaster he eliminate his own shortcomings entirely. has made representations on a few occasions Secondly, his attitude towards his pupil and for an extension to the accommodation pro­ his emotional endurance are of paramount vided for his deputy. They are almost importance. The instructor should regard sitting on each other's laps. I would be very pupils' difficulties and repeated faults as prob­ grateful if the department could extend the lems to solve. After all, a learner-driver does facilities for the senior staff at that school. not usually make mistakes out of reluctance Only last Saturday I was invited to the to learn or out of vindictiveness, but simply school to attend a very important function, because he has a problem. It is the job of the opening of a driver-training scheme, the instructor to help the pupil to solve any something which high schools regard as problems by kindness, understanding and important. I was very pleased to be invited restraint. along to make the inaugural speech and the Of course, the involvement of the Road presentation, particularly as I am a member Safety Council in the field of driver-training of the Queensland Road Safety Council. I is very significant, because, as all honourable pay special tribute to Mr. Zupp of Mt. members are aware, 40,000 people have now Gravatt for providing a motor vehicle. graduated from the driver-training classes. A 14 418 Address in Reply [14 SEPTEMBER 1976] Address in Reply more recent innovation is the learner-driver's authority to control traffic. However, as course, which, as the name implies, is slanted civilian traffic-control wardens are appointed towards the new driver. The course consists in Tasmania, and are paid for two hours' of a series of lectures and films spread over duty in the morning and two hours in the four weeks, and a great number of motoring afternoon, I do not see why they could not factors are discussed. This is very educa­ be appointed here. They have the authority tional for the student, because he is taught to direct traffic, thereby protecting school­ such things as what happens under the children. Again I would ask the Minister for bonnet, what happens when the brake pedal Transport to see what he can do either by is pushed and the theory of the four-stroke way of appointing traffic-control wardens or engine. The economy of action and running by using his influence to make finance avail­ efficiency are also covered. Other sessions able to the council for the installation of deal with correct steering procedures, and traffic lights. the control and prevention of skidding are very high on the list. Of course, I corn­ The Mansfield State High School suffers mended the course to the students, and I from a drainage problem in the school­ commend it to every member of this grounds. I do not know why the &ite was Assembly. selected in the first place. I regard it as a horrible site and one that would always face Mr. K. J. Hooper: After the way I saw a drainage problem without the allocation you drive along the freeway last Tuesday of many thousands of dollars to carry out night, I think you should take the course effective drainage works. I am aware of yourself. the allocation of funds towards the cost of Mr. KAUS: The honourable member must such work, but unfortunately the services have been watching one of his colleagues. of a contractor cannot be obtained. A contractor will commence work during the The course costs a student only $6, so it stormy season with the result that the work is a very cheap course indeed when one keeps is delayed for about six months or so. in mind the good it can do. I have no doubt As a creek runs through the middle of the that students will accept it. Teachers have schoolgrounds, I have no doubt that delays been trained by the Road Safety Council will occur in this project. Fortunately one in both lecturing and practical driving tech­ section of the playing area has been levelled, niques. There has been a good response from but the space is too cramped for the 500 both students and teachers to the course and, or 600 pupils attending the school. I would subject to a pilot programme being successful, like to see bulldozers brought in to carry out the council hopes to introduce it to high the drainage works that should have been schools throughout the State in the near done in the first place. future. That is the message that I wanted to get across. I could talk about schools all day. Mr. Jensen: Tell us how the cricket grounds Mr. K. J. Hooper: They give you plenty lost their council curators. to talk about. Mr. KAUS: I will deal with that later. Mr. KAUS: The schools in my electorate As the Education Estimates will not be are very good. Soon after my election as discussed, I should like to bring another member for Mansfield I conducted a survey problem concerning schools to the attention of needs at all schools in the area and of the House. The Rochedale State School furnished my findings to the Government. is a very good school near the boundary of I invite members of the Opposition to inspect the Redlands electorate. A swimming pool the schools in my electorate so that they was opened there last week. However, traffic can see the results of the work done by is causing problems at the school and a con­ a good member of Parliament. trolled crossing is needed. Rochedale Road My electorate originally contained a few is used during the week as a bypass road, and children are in danger when buses drop them disadvantaged schools, which were seized on the side of the road opposite the school. upon by Labor members of Parliament as I ask the Minister to discuss the matter with a means of criticising our education system. the local authority to see whether lights can Today, by comparison, there is not one be installed there for the protection of disadvantaged school in my electorate. The children. I have approached both the local Labor Party showed no concern whatever alderman and the council, which is the only for the children; its main concern was with fair thing to do, but as yet no move has criticism of the system and the Education been made in this direction. Perhaps they Department. The children came about third will make a move when one or two of the or fourth in their priorities. children are killed at that spot. A bushland area has been acquired for At the present time the mothers are trying the purpose of extending the Mt. Gravatt to direct the traffic. I have asked the Minister South State School, which caters for nearly for Transport to appoint traffic-control war­ 1,000 pupils. The school is faced with the dens, but for some reason he has not done problem of clearing an area for play pur­ so. I presume that he has encountered some poses, and the p. and c. association is being problem with the Police Force and that called upon to meet the cost of this work. it is not possible to give civ.nians the Surely it is up to the department to carry Address in Reply (14 SEPTEMBER 1976] Address in Reply 419

out and pay for the initial work, and then alderman, whose ward takes up three-quar­ ask the p. and c. association to add the ters of my electorate, was kicked out of finishing touches. office. I am glad that the Minister for Lands, Mr. K. J. Hooper: You stacked ,the meet­ Forestry, National Parks and Wildlife Ser­ ing. vice is here. Officers from the Forestry Department have been out to mark trees Mr. KAUS: It was not stacked. and show committee members which trees The alderman who won the election should be destroyed and which should be campaigned on this issue over a period of saved. This will help us to turn some sec­ three years. He was fortunate to win Lib­ tions of the school playground into an envir­ eral Party endorsement and carried his cam­ onmental park, as we have done in quite a paign on this matter through to the end. He number of other schools. was elected to represent the people and to make sure that that area was retained for In directing my attention to the Mt. the people. Gravatt Showground, I point out that I am referring to a paper on the conclusions that I have here a statement that I made on the may be drawn from 1ocal government action matter. Statements were made by the in Brisbane. It commences with a telegram developing company. They were canvassing sent on 21 December 1973 to the Minister the area and using one of the local associa­ for Local Government (Hon. H. A. Mc­ tions as a "blind". I accused the company Kechnie) from the Mt. Gravatt Community of hiding under the skirts of a few local Planning Centre objecting to the council's residents in the Mt. Gravatt controversy. It action on the Mt. Gravatt Showground. On reflected no credit on the developing company 16 October I made a speech in the debate that it should sponsor and use a local assoc­ iation as its mouthpiece in the continuing on Matters of Public Intere~t to the effect that the people of Brisbane were watching legal battle to retain its "gift" buy from the this most inspiring example of civic spirit, Brisbane City Council. togetherness and dedication of purpose. I I went on to say that the fact that the said that the whole city was ~anding in developing company should have found this judgment on whether or not the city council necessary was partly a measure of the had a greater regard for balancing its shock­ strength of its case, but more of its natural ing finances at the expense of the people determination to hold land bought for than for planning for the benefit of present $1,000,000 six years ago and now worth and future generations. probably $3,000,000. The costs to the devel­ oping company of engaging a public relations I am forced to wonder when people say firm, causing glossy pamphlets to be pub­ that local government is closes,t to the people. lished and promising financial aid to a youth In a way that is not an unfamiliar state­ club, was infinitesimal compared with its ment. Indeed it is often the rationale for capital gain of a "cool" $2,000,000. That much activity which falls within the scope is where we have a problem in our local of local government responsibility and/ or community, and this is where the council desirability. However it is a proposition for should step in and stop the company divid­ which little attention has been given to ing the local community for its own benefit. criteria for judgment. Is local government I said that the Brisbane City Council had not responsive to the feelings and desires of only sold the people's heritage, but had the community? Is loca1 government actuaMy done so at bargain-basement prices, because concerned with involving communities in the contract of sale was effective at values decision-making, planning and the implemen­ ruling six years ago. tation of actions which would necessarily affect their life style and environment and An on-the-spot petition of supporters of that of their children? Can a community the development of the showground as a approach a local authority with a view to shopping complex was a bit of a rort. contributing their efforts and energies to­ People were asked were they interested in it. wards the development of their own com­ Those who said "Yes" were asked to sign munity? If so can they expect a sympathetic the petition. Those who said "No" were or indeed any response? All these ques>tions told that they would not be interested in it. add up to a re-examination of the basic They were not allowed to express an opinion. proposition, that is, is local government It was a farcical poll which in no way closest to the people? reflected substantive public opinion. The last Mt. Gravatt ward election was fought After what happened in the past three ,to mainly on the need to preserve open space four years I am ~ure that is not right in the for future generations and to construct a case of the Mt. Gravatt Community Centre. community centre for all people of all ages. The local authority was not interested in it. The overwhelming support the candidate was At the time it was interested only in making given was a true mirror of the depth of money from the sale of the showground, public endorsement. I am talking about thus denying the people of the area open Alderman Coneybeer, who is the original space and play and recreation areas for organiser of the Mt. Gravatt Community both the old and the young. That the people Centre Planning Committee. He fought par­ believed this was proved by the resu1t of the ticularly well and hard over that period of local authority election. The local A.L.P. time. 420 Electricity Bill [14 SEPTEMBER 1976] Electricity Bill

I do not know what is going to happen, but the Public Service Act 1922-1973 in cer­ I advise the people in the area that the Com­ tain particufars and the City of Bris­ munity Centre Planning Committee has not bane Act 1924-1974 in a certain particular; given up. There could be a court case in the and for connected purposes." near future. If there is, I am sure that we The proposed legislation is quite voluminous will win it. The scent has gone dead. I and has two distinct objects. Firstly, it think the council is backing off. I can only sets out to provide a legal framework for hope that the council forgets all about devel­ a reorganised electricity supply industry in opment in this area. this State. This is just an evolutionary step. Another problem will stem from that Over the last 80 years or so, Parliament development. If we lose the case, the com­ has seen fit to pass laws for the organisation munity loses another park up the road. So of the electricity supply industry. There we will Iose even more open space. Of are at present five Acts which deal with course, if that area is developed as a shop­ different aspects of the organisation of the ping complex, when the Commonwealth industry. It is proposed that all these be Games are held out there the local people repealed and the provisions consolidated in will have to walk or ride push-bikes or the Bill which I now seek leave to introduce. horses to get around. The roads will be The second object of the Bill is to update cluttered up and there will be transport prob­ the law relating to the use of electricity. lems, and many, many people will be on my The emphasis here is on the conditions under back because of bad planning and bad which a person can obtain a supply of development in my area. electricity from an electricity authority and I appreciate the opportunity of saying a on the steps which are to be taken by all few words in this debate and will have more concerned-electricity authority, electrical to say in the next one. worker and consumer-to see that electricity is used in a safe manner. Motion-That the Address in Reply be In this regard the legislation which is adopted (Mr. Brown)-agreed to. repealed consists of parts of the Electric Light and Power Act, which was passed in SUPPLY 1896. The need here is as much for con­ solidation as for updating and I express the CONSTITUTION OF COMMITTEE hope that this new legislation will stand the Hon. T. G. NEWBERY (Mirani-Leader test of time as well as the safety legislation of the House): I move- which it will replace. It is almost three years since Cabinet "That the House will, at its next sitting, accepted the recommendations contained in resolve itself into a Committee of the the report of the Reorganisation Advisory Whole to consider the Supply to be granted Committee which had been appointed to con­ to Her Majesty." sider the reorganisation of the electricity sup­ Motion agreed to. ply industry in Queensland. This report has had very wide circulation and I say advisedly WAYS AND MEANS that there has been very little opposition to it. What is more important, there has been CONSTITUTION OF COMMITTEE practically no opposition from the political Hon. T. G. NEWBERY (Mirani-Leader parties as such or fmm the consumers Jr of the House): I move- organisations which would be expected to represent consumers. The opposition has "That the House will, at its next sitting, come largely from the entrenched executiws resolve itself into a Comm.ittee of the of the various authorities. This is under­ Whole to consider of Ways and Means for standable and is where one would expect raising the Supply to be granted to Her opposition to any major reorganisation to Majesty." originate. However, it is the duty of the Motion ag~ed to. Government to govern, and the public ser­ vant-whether he serves the public as an officer of a Government department or a ELECTRICITY BILL statutory corporation-to give effect to the INITIATION IN COMMITTEE policies of Government. There has been extensive consultation with (The Chairman of Committees, Mr. W. D. electric authorities about the contents of the Hewitt, Chatsworth, in the chair) legislation. Similarly, there have been dis­ Hon. R. E. CAMM (Whitsunday-Minister cussions with other interested parties, such for Mines and Energy) (5.8 p.m.): I move- as the unions, the Electrical Workers and Contractors' Board and the Electrical Con­ "That a Bill be introduced to consolidate tractors' Association. Any provision of the and amend the law relating to the organiz­ proposed Bill which is likely to affect another ation and regulation of the generation, Government department has been fully dis­ transmission, distribution, supply and use cussed with that department and I am pleased of electricity in Queensland and to matters to say that agreement has been reached with of safety with respect thereto; to amend all departments. Electricity Bill [14 SEPTEMBER 1976) Electricity Bill 421

Now to outline briefly those provisions Governor in Council who have experience of the proposed Bill which will affect exist­ and qualifications which the Governor in ing electric authorities and the employees in Council considers will be of advantage 1o the electricity supply industry. As all hon­ the board. The general manager will be ourable members know, it is proposed that appointed by the Governor in Council on the existing statutory electric authorities, the recommendation of the board. He will which are the Southern Electric Authority of not be a member of the board. Queensland, the Northern Electric Authority Quite naturally employees in the industry of Queensland and the six regional elec­ have expressed some concern about the re­ tricity boards, will go out of existence. The organisation. First of all, let me outline the Brisbane City Council and several other local positive advantages to employees which will authorities in Queensland which are also elec­ come from reorganisation. An employee tric authorities will each be divested of its will be able to move from one electric electricity undertaking. authority or the commission to another with­ The new organisation of the industry wiil out any loss of continuous employment be- rights. There will be a common superannua­ • The State Electricity Commission of tion scheme for the whole industry, which Queensland as the arm of Govern­ will be compulsory for new appointees and ment; to which existing employees may contribute if they so desire. The superannuation • A Queensland Electricity Generating scheme will be administered by a board on Board, which will be responsible for which there will be employer and employee the generation and transmission of elec­ representation. tricity over the coastal network (which will be interconnected from Cooktown The existing employees are naturally con­ to Murwillumbah by 1978); and cerned about their existing rights. As I have already implied, it will be open to them to • Seven electricity boards which will be retain their existing superannuation rights responsible for getting the product to if they find these more favourable than the the final consumers. new scheme. As we are joining a Govern­ The format and organisation of the com­ ment department and 22 different electric mission will not be changed significantly. It authorities into a single industry, it is abso­ will no longer be responsible for the design lutely impossible to guarantee that no and supervision of electricity works as a con­ employee will be disadvantaged in any way sultant for Western Queensland electric auth­ at all. But it will be our aim, in consulta­ orities but its responsibility for loan-raising tion wLth the unions, to see 'that any disturb­ will be extended to cover the loan require­ ance of existing rights is minimal and I am ments for the whole electricity supply indus­ sure that any such disturbance will be bal­ try. anced by new benefits. Essentially its functions will be to advise Now to the important guarantees which the Government, particularly in the areas of the employees have been given- forward planning, industry finances and (A) No employee will be required to safety generally. The Government, through change his place of residence on account the commission, has always had the benefit of the reorganisation of the industry; of the advice of the operating electric auth­ orities in respect of matters affecting 1he (B) Every employee will retain his ex­ electricity supply industry, but the proposed isting classification while he continues to legislation formalises this by providing for a be employed in the electricity supply in­ Queensland Electricity Supply Industry Con­ dustry; and sultative Council which will consist of the (C) Finally, not only will the employ­ commissioner and general managers of each ees' existing continuous service and leave of the eight electricity authorities. rights be preserved, but in some cases anomalies which exist at present will be The general manager of the generating board will be appointed by the Governor in rectified. Council. He will also be chairman of that The staff of the State Electricity Commis­ board. The other members will be the com­ sion of Queensland will be given the right missioner, the Under Treasurer, one to either remain in the Public Service and be appointed member from North Queensland, appointed to a su1table position in another another from Central Queensland and a third department or stay with the commission and from Southern Queensland, and two mem­ transfer to the electricity supply industry. bers specifically designated as consumers' Because of the special nature of the State representatives nominated by the electricity Service Superannuation Scheme, those who boards. transfer to the industry will be required to con~inue in that scheme and will have no The membership of the seven electricity option of joining the new eiectridty supply boards will still be drawn largely from local industry scheme. government. Five members of each board will be nominated by local authorities and Let me now discuss one matter on which a one of these members will be the chairman. lot of rot has been talked~that is, the talk The other members will be the commis­ of compensation for electricity assets taken sioner and two members appointed by the over by the new electric authorities. The 422 Electricity Bill [14 SEPTEMBER 1976] Electricity Bill position is that each of the bodies which is power [s now produced) to Brisbane to going out of existence or being divested from demonstrate in King George Square about a local authority is a public electric the unfair price advantage the people of authority of this State and the whole of its Brisbane have enjoyed over them for many, assets has been paid for either out of the many years. The reason, of course, is simple. moneys taken from the consumers in their These people (and, I am sure, the majority electricity accounts or by way of Govern­ of people in Brisbane also) realise that this ment-guaranteed loans or Government sub­ situation will not continue for ever and sidies. Who, then, are we to compensate that, eventually, the majority of our power for such assets? will be generated on the coal-fields of The vesting provisions, which are the Central Queensland. same as vesting provisions under any legis­ I know that members on the other side lation of this type, simply provide that the of the Chamber agree with the concept of new authority shall become the owner of the uniform retail tariffs, but they feel that they assets of the authorities it supersedes and could be financed from revenue. I ask them: will be responsible for the associated liabili­ Where are we going to get the revenue, ties. Of course, there are machinery provis­ except from the taxpayers of Queensland? ions to be sure that a local authority is not We intend to take it from the electricity put to an expense-during the vesting period consumers, who, after all, are the taxpayers, -which is rightly attributable to the elec­ and make complete disclosures of what this tricity undertaking of which it has been is costing. What could be fairer than this? divested. Before leaving this subject, I again Up till now I have not spoken about the emphasise that it is an eventual and not most important element of the electricity an immediate objective, but I assure honour­ supply industry-and I hope that those able members that they can all look forward employed in the industry never forget that to seeing some progress year by year. this is the most important element; I mean the consumer. How, then, does the proposed The other matters in the proposed Bill legislation affect the consumer? What the which affect electricity consumers relate consumer expects from his electric author­ primarily to safety. At present the law ity is a reliable and continuous supply of provides that every new electrical installation electricity at the cheapest possible cost con­ must be inspected by an installation inspector sistent with this. The electricity supply in­ from the electric authority before it is dustry can be proud of its performance to supplied with electricity. This will continue. date in these respects but there is absolutely no room for complacency. At present the electric authority is supposed to eventually inspect all additions and altera­ One of the objects of the legislation is tions to an installation which are connected the eventual equalisation of tariffs throughout by authorised contractors. Weaknesses in this Queensland. You will notice, Mr. Hewitt, arrangement are that an inspection is point­ that this is an eventual objective, not some­ less unless it is done before work is con­ thing that we expect to achieve overnight. nected, because a hazardous installation is In fact, my predecessor predicted that it dangerous once it is connected to supply, could take 15 years to attain this objective! and, secondly, it is known that an enormous This is another area in which there has amount of work is carried out by contractors been ill-informed criticism of the principles which is never notified to the electric of the proposed Bill. I have deliberately authority. avoided controversy in the media before You might think, Mr. Hewitt, that this this Bill was debated here-the correct place indicates a serious situation. This is not so. for debate. It is unusual (in fact, a better description Let us look now at the principle of equal would be "almost unknown") for a person tariffs. Electricity can be supplied down a to receive an electric shock from additions street in Brisbane very cheaply because, as and alterations which have been connected honourable members know, there are not by a certificated electrical worker. What is many streets within a few miles of the now proposed is that the electrical contractor centre of the city with vacant allotments, who carries out additions and alterations and multi-unit development is more common will be required to give both the consumer in Brisbane than in other centres. It costs and the electric authority a certificate that more to distribute electricity in rural areas­ the work is up to standard and has been but how many coal mines and power stations tested for safety. You will see, Mr. Hewitt, are there in Queen Street? that there is no risk in doing this, because The concept of eventual equalisation of the accidents we hear about now are not tariffs throughout Queensland is merely that caused by work of certificated electrical the electricity consumer in Queensland is workers which had not been inspected by an entitled to the benefit of the State's ample installation inspector but by unauthorised resources of cheap coal whether he lives work by unqualified persons. in Cairns or Corinda, in Blackwater or There is one other aspect of the proposed Birdsville. It has amazed me why there legislation which it is important to mention. have not been marches by the people of It deals with the licensing of electrical con­ Ipswich (where the bulk of Queensland's tractors and is a matter of Government Electricity Bill [14 SEPTEMBER 1976] Electricity Bill 423 policy, not one that has been brought for­ It is not possible to have equalisation on ward by electric authorities or the Electrical the basis of narrowing the country-city gap Workers and Contractors' Board. by increasing city prices instead of ·lowering country excesses. The reason for issuing certificates of com­ petency to electrical workers and for licensing I would like to quote from Mr. Houston's electrical contractors can be explained in policy speeches in 1969 and 1972 as well as from comments made by Government one word-"safety". The present provisions members at that time in relation to electri­ for licensing electrical contractors tended to go further than this and led to a "closed city reorganisation. Firstly, on behalf of the shop." Labor Party, Mr. Houston said in 1969- "An A.LP. Government will introduce The provisions of the existing Electrical a subsidy scheme to level electricity costs Workers and Contractors Act require the in Queensland. We will not tolerate a board to ascertain whether an applicant for situation where some Queenslanders are a contractor's licence is "able" to carry out charged 2.5 times as much as others for electrical contracting work. It is the Gov­ an essential commodity such as electricity." ernment's contention that all that is necessary is that he is competent to do so and is a He went on to explain how the scheme man of good repute. It is not important would be implemented. It was to be whether he contracts for 40 hours a week, implemented by subsidising the power dis­ for 40 weeks of the year, or 24 hours a day tribution authorities in country areas so that for 52 weeks of the year, or merely does they could charge the same price as that a few jobs to supplement his income. For charged in the city of Brisbane. this reason the provisions of the Electrical What did the Liberal and National Workers and Contractors Act which are Parties say at that time? On 8 January translated into the new legislation have been 1969 Mr. Camm said that it would cost modified accordingly. $6,000,000 a year to give the rest of Queens­ land the same electricity tariffs as those in Another change concerns a person engaged Brisbane. On 14 'February of the same in a business (not an electrical contracting year the Premier accused the then Leader of business) who employs an electrical mechanic the Opposition of promising to spend as an employee in that business. At present "mythical millions". I have not heard either this employer is required to register as such the Premier or the Minister for Mines and and obtain an installation permit from the Energy talk about the adverse effect of Electrical Workers' Board. It is proposed having to find the $26,000,000 to make up to repeal this provision. However, any for lost death duties. I have not heard one electrical installation work-including addi­ Government member mention how the funds tions and alterations-carried out by an would be found to compensate the State for electrical mechanic who is an employee lost death duties and yet they want to know: must be inspected by the electric authority where are we going to find the funds to before it is connected to the source of supply. equalise electricity charges imposed upon I commend the motion to honourable the worker, the businessman and the members. farmer? •In 1972 Mr. Houston renewed the Labor Mr. BURNS (Lytton-Leader of the Party's pledge and suggested to the people Opposition) (5.27 p.m.): The A.L.P. believes of Queensland that equalisation could be that electricity costs must be reduced, but we brought about by the p~yment of a sub_sidy. claim that this should be done by way of Again in 1972 the Liberal and Natwnal the payment of a Government subsidy rather Parties said that it could not be done, that than by charging over 50 per cent of the the farmer could not be assisted by reducing electricity consumers in this State a higher his electricity charges and that country tariff on what I believe is artificial equalisa­ residents could not be assisted by a reduction tion. The prime objective of equalisation of in electricity charges. During all that time. electricity must be to achieve real reductions the Government continued to charge thou­ for both consumers and industry. sands of dollars to connect electricity supply Mr. Moore: You're not a very good to single houses in the country. People at reader. Put your finger on the place. Kilcummin in the electorate of Belyando, and others, refused to pay the charges. Mr. BURNS: The honourable member Thousands of dollars in levies were shoved need not worry. We will talk about his down the throats of country residents under problems and what he, as a member of the the Government scheme that would have Electrical Trades Union, would do about cost $6,000,000 under the proposals advanced the Bill. by the honourable member for Bulimba The Bill fails to protect the interests of which were rejected by the Government. the consumer. The Government is attempt­ Why is the Government now supporting ing by the worst possible blackmail tactics rationalisation? Why has it decided that to force the Brisbane City Council, which has it should do something about it? Why has a record of prudence and success in main­ it decided to destroy an efficient organisation taining low power costs, to impose premature and replace it with an inefficient organisation and fabricated cost rises. that it has succoured and nurtured in thi!i 424 Electricity Bill [14 SEPTEMBER 1976] Electricity Bill

State for a number of years? Why is the couple of points more, to 10.8 per cent. I Government suddenly expressing concern am told that in an all-electric home on about country residents and emphasising the the Toowoomba Range, where the Lockyer way in which their tariffs will be brought by-election campaign is being fought, the down to city tariffs? The price for country new tariff will mean an increase of $2 residents is not being lowered; the price for or more a week. city residents is being increased. We are But it goes further than that. Further dealing with 50 per cent of the people, not just Brisbane residents. We are dealing examination shows that, while a 10.6 p~r cent increase in the basic tariff IS with Toowoomba and Gold Coast residents­ predicted, some increases will be as high with residents who make up half the popul­ as 48 per cent, 38 per cent, 14 per cent lation of this State and who will be adversely and 18 per cent. That is there for hon­ affected by this Bill. ourable members to work out from the Mr. Moore interjected. advertisement placed by the S.E.A. in this paper. For commerce and industry power Mr. BURNS: The honourable member for the initial rate rises by 13.6 per cent and Windsor supports the idea. He wants them the final rate for production by 14.1 per to pay more. He is enthusiastic that they cent. should pay more. He screams his support here today for increasing electricity charges. Mr. Camm: That has nothing to do with this Bill. It is apparent that the real reason why the authority wants to take over the council Mr. BURNS: It has. The reorganisation electricity department is to conceal the cost of tariffs has a lot to do with this Bill. of tariff equalisation imposed on Brisbane The Minister talked about electricity tariffs. and Southern Electric Authority consumers. He talked about giving a central authority I believe the costs will be hidden just as the right to sell power to certain people. they were hidden in the statements made But that authority has been found wanting the other day by the Southern Electric in the courts, on its charges. It has been Authority. responsible for imposing increase after I urge honourable members to consider increase on the community; I wonder how the very significant effects of electricity many of those were suspect? charges on manufacturing, and the retail One of the steepest rises shown in this section of the community. The electricity advertisement in the paper is to be imposed industry is a huge business. It is highly on the men on farms covered by rural sub­ capital intensive and technically complex. sidv. The increase is to be 38.3 per cent, In many respects is has a significant influence but we do not hear a murmur from the -a rather more significant influence than National Party. some Government members are crediting it with when they readily agree to increase Domestic water-heating is up by 10.8 per the bills of 50 per cent of the people cent. Electricity for fiats is up by 10.7 and of Queensland in a big area of the State 10.8 per cent. One of the most deplorable and the bills for manufacturing industries increases is for hospitals, where the rise is employing a large section of the work-force 16.6 per cent. It went through without a which will be adversely affected. murmur. Mr. Eiliott: Where is the dearest power? Are all the other boards efficient? Let us look at some of the comments of the Aud­ Mr. BURNS: I shall talk to the honour­ itor-General. I have taken a photocopy of able member in a moment. He has asked some of his statements about other boards. me the right question and I have the right He said that that one authority sustained answer. In future I may have to call him a loss in 23 out of its 28 years of operation. Dorothy for asking me a question that I This Government seeks to combine that with wanted one of my friends to ask me. another board which last year increased its Did any Government members take the losses by 79.42 per cent. time to read the advertisement inserted in the Mr. Lane: Are you going to subsidise it? Press last week about electricity charges? Did any members of the Liberal and National Mr. BURNS: I am pleased that the hon­ Parties who will blindly support this Bill ourable member for Merthyr has come in. take the time to listen to the case put by He is suggesting that these inefficient boards the city council-which was accepted by the should be combined and that the people of courts-that it was overcharged in July for Merthyr should pay higher electricity electricity by the very authority that charges to pay for past inefficiency in the designed the authority to which the country, to make up for their losses and to Government intends to hand power under subsidise the type of operation that they will this Bill? Did any of them look through carry on in the future, if their past record of that article? If they did they would find 23 losses out of 28 years is any indication. a statement that the lowest basic tariff would His statement implies that he is dumping the be increased by 10.6 per cent. But if people of Merthyr. He is not concerned people turn more lights on and enjoy tele­ about the prices they have to pay. He is vision and radio the cost will increase a prepared to walk away from them. Electricity Bill [14 SEPTEMBER 1976] Electricity Bill 425

The document I have goes a little further. Mr. Camm: No. The Auditor-General refers to another auth­ ority's Accumulated Fund Account being Mr. BURNS: It's not? The Government overdrawn to the extent of $6,200,000. Some always puts on a mantle of innocence but if of these authorities, the Government says, Labor does the very same thing it is are all right and it is going to retain them accused of riding roughshod over the will of or combine them with other authorities; but the people. At least, it is always made it is going to destroy the one in Brisbane, to look that way. because it is run by the Labor Party organ­ I believe that this type of special-purpose isation. That is why the Government is authority has far too great a tendency to against it. It is not against it on the ground operate in isolation. It hides behind the of efficiency. Tonight the Minister told us Government's powers, which will be vested it is easier to supply electricity down a in the commissioner or a chairman. Each street where there are more high-rise build­ board will not be run by local people. The ings. They were your words, weren't they? Government's own report as far back as 1960 said that the Queensland organisation- Mr. Camm: Yes. "had evolved on a regional basis, which Mr. BURNS: Let us have a look at some suits the needs of the State and the comparative statistics. The Brisbane auth­ special problems arising from great dis­ ority employs 6.71 personnel for every 1,000 tances and a small papu!::es from this Bill. I have heard this the railway lines in Central Queensland, many Parliament berated by all sorts of people for fettlers are living in huts with no electricity. Labor's federal centralist policies. The Queensland Government claims that it is Mr. LESTER: I rise to a point of order. opposed to centralism-and to Canberra That reference is to Mrs. McGuire of Anakie centralism in particular. What sort of a and after my representations-- Bill is this, if it is not centralist? It is THE CHAIRMAN: Order! The honour­ proposed to put all control under one auth­ able gentleman's point of order must be ority. In fact, under this Bill the com­ related in personal terms. missioner will in many ways have greater power than the Premier, because he will have Mr. BURNS: Thank you, Mr. Hewitt. I control over industry, control over the farm­ realise that the honourable member does not ing community and control over the pockets understand the procedures of the Parlia­ ol' everyone in the State. ment. The problem is that the people m Let us refer to a couple of statements his area are without electricity-under author­ from the Government's own reports to show ities that are run by the Government. The whether what I have said is right or wrong. Government is now setting up a centralist The reported statement from the Electricity authority and is saying that it will be more Commission on 11 March 1976 said that efficient than the one that has provid~d the main aim of the amendments is to get cheaper electricity and an efficient service to control of electricity distribution into the the people in this area. And the Government hands of one board, thus ending the frag­ cannot deny that. mentation which exists throughout the State. Let me outline some of the arguments Isn't that centra!ism? that have been advanced in the reports that 426 Electricity Bill [14 SEPTEMBER 1976] Electricity Bill we have been given over the years in favour that it can do it in its own area where it has of a take-over of the industry by bringing control. To be truthful, I do not believe the about centralism in this industry. They make Government. I do not believe that some of several points, one being consolidated finan­ the reasons that have been given here arc cial management. I cannot understand why good reasons. that cannot be achieved with the existing A Gover:nment Member: You are the one boards. I understand that the Brisbane City to tell us! Council is prepared to accept some of the proposals to this end. Mr. BURNS: I did not catch the mumble from the fellow with the long hair; otherwise The next one is economy of scale. That I would have accepted the interjectbn. point is disproved by what I outlined before Unfortunately, if he mumbles in his beard concerning the ratio of personnel to cus­ we cannot take much notice of him. tomers, etc. as shown in the statistics for -the Bril:lbane City Council as compared I wrote to the Brisbane City Council and with those for Sydney and Melbourne. I asked for some points in relation to this wonder why the Government has to proceed so-called reorganisation and what sort of with that particular point. values would flow from it. The council con­ tends that all of the objectives of the The next is rationalisation of the supply reorganisation of the industry, which are system. It is difficult to understand, when summarised in the second reorganisation talking about rationalisation and centralisa­ report, such as tariff equalisation, control of tion of control, why this should be allowed internal financing, the study of financial, to override what I believe is consideration of technical, administration and personnel objec­ the people. It should be noted that the two tives, community benefits, community of largest authorities, which represent approxi­ interest and measurement of industrial trends mately 70 per cent of the consumers in the could be achieved quite easily without remov­ State, are to be the worst affected; the ones ing the Brisbane City Council's Electricity that the Government is really turning upside Department from the council's control. This down. As I said before, sections of the is the council's contention; I should like to S.E.A. are to merge with the West and right hear an answer to it. out to the South-west, and I do not believe that this will be of any advantage to the The council further contends that many of people or the businessmen in Toowoomba, these objectives which may be policy bases or the farmers in the Toowoomba area. for the constructive reorganisation are al­ ready being achieved. The Lord Mayor has Mr. Moore: Of course it will. indicated continually that the council would participate in all these activities including Mr. BURNS: The honourable member will transfer of staff without loss of benefits, have his opportunity later on to justify it. superannuation benefits, methods of financial I suggest that he might still be justifying it presentation, etc. during the next election campaign-after the electricity bills of the people have been The Government then talks about decen­ increased. I will be on the stump reminding tralisation. I say that the Brll proposes him of his support for increased charges centralism. It starts to interfere with the that will hit their pockets. We will be giving right of people to raise and invest their him the opportunity to defend his actions funds locally. Investment of short-term when he is on the stump throughout the funds should be the responsibility of he State. respective hoards in their areas. If that is not done, the effect will be felt by banking Dealing with rationalisation, I am told houses and financial institutions in the area. that with tariff equalisation the cost of elec­ If all the money from places such as Towns­ tricity to people in the fringe area will not ville and Cairns is ro be sent to the central vary in any case, which is a major problem authority in Brisbane, local managers will in fringe areas at present. If the cost to not be handling their money ,through local people in the fringe area is not to be varied banks and they will not be investing it at -and it has been suggested that it might short-term interest rates in their areas. There not vary-I don't know that the Govern­ has to be an adverse effect on institutions ment has done very well with this Bill. in those areas from the Government's cen­ Then there is talk of transferability of tralist proposals. staff, portability of benefits, common indus­ The Gov,ernment goes even further. I trial policies, common accounting practices believe that the general manager of a board and statistical collection. Why can't they be should be appointed by that board and done under the current authorities? Why should also be a member of it. I might must a whole new set of authorities be set up make the point that there have been so to do just that? Why can't the Government many amendments in ,the last few days that negotiate through the authorities for the it is very difficult to understand just what transfer of staff? Why can't that be done is proposed. My suggestion, Mr. Hewitt, is with portability of benefits? The Govern­ not only that the Bill be allowed to lie on ment talks about portability of long service the table for six months but that a com­ leave in private industry. It has not kept that mittee should consider it to see if it is in promise but it has talked about it. Now it the best interest of Queensland. I do not says that it has to set up new authorities so think it is. Electricity Bill (14 SEPTEMBER 1976] Electricity Bill 427

Mr. DOUMANY (Kurilpa) (5.47 p.m.): region that would accme from full equalisa­ We have just heard a typically simplistic tion under a uniform tariff struoture. That and emotional speech from the Leader of would be a£ter it was fully implemented. It the Opposition. He always likes to bet in seems to me that it will be very embarras­ all directions. He does not bet each way; sing indeed for those three members of the he bets on every horse in the race. And Opposition who come from that region when there are many horses in this race. It is they come to speak to this Bill, if they ever a very complex piece of legislation and I speak to this Bill, because ,they are going to for one certainly do not pretend to under­ have to look at the implications for their stand all the issues. I do not pretend, either, own region. I wonder whart they are going that I am not worried about some of the to say. impact of the legislation. But I certainly will The very significant part of this legislation not hide behind a vast amount of contra­ is the grid, a State-wide supply system with dictory data, as the Leader of the Opposi­ major powerhouses operating in places like tion has done. Gladstone-powerhouses of enormous pro­ Let us look for a moment at the com­ portions not thought of 10 or 15 years ago mitment of the A.L.P. in this matter. In the and certainly undreamt of in the era of the A.L.P. policy for the 1972 State election A.L.P. Government of the 1950s-bringing campaign, during the days of the honour­ with them great economies of scale. When able member for Bulimba as Leader of they are all linked together in a grid, it the Opposition, one finds under the heading becomes more and more meaningful to look "Eleotricity" these words- at a total system of power supply for the State. Whether we like it or not, that is a "As a major step in reducing the cost fact-it cannot be ignored-and as that grid of living and production costs, Labor will is developed it brings with it, too, a diminish­ subsidise electricity supply authorities in ing importance of local cost of distribution. this State so that they can reduce elec­ tricity tariffs and charges to a value no The cost of distribution or reticulation of more than that charged by the Brisbane power is very important in the existing and City Council. past structure of things in this State, but as we get a State-wide grid of supply and "Similar arrangements will be made with generation I am certain that pure common supply authorities outside the State, but sense will dictate that we start to diminish which supply areas within Queensland. the importance of local pockets of population "Power-house construction and inter­ so far as distribution cost is concerned and connection of power-houses throughout emphasise the basic cost of generation or the State will be proceeded with as fast economy of scale as the dominant factor as possible. to be taken into consideration. "Guarantees for rum] extensions will be We have been talking about centralism, reduced to a practicable amount." and it always greatly amuses me when A.L.P. members harp about centralism because they I wonder whether the Leader of the Opposi­ are the greatest centralists known. They tion was speaking agains,t the Bill or for it. are the archpriests of centralism, and I Mr. Alison: He was not sure himself. believe it is sheer hypocrisy for the Leader of the Opposition to talk about centralism Mr. DOUMANY: I do not think he was in this Chamber. If he had his way, he would at all sure. The fact that he has not stayed have one big powerhouse in Alice Springs and to listen to my speech indicates to me that there would be no others. That is the he does not like to be criticised. On this philosophy of the Labor Party. issue he is very confused indeed. There are two matters of major concern to me in this legislation. The first is that Mr. Lindsay: I suggest that he has gone we are introducing a very powerful central away to receive further instructions. body to run things, and with that there is Mr. DOUMANY: That may well be so. always the risk of trade practices infringe­ It seems that the City Hall rather than the ments, but as we know at the moment trade Trades Hall is dominant 'today. practices regulations do not cover authorities of this sort. But with centralisation we do The Leader of the Opposition quoted some have risks. We have a lot of power coming figures. Let us, for example, consider the into the hands of a few, and it is most position in the area of the Capricornia Reg­ important that this problem be looked at ional Electricity Board. There are some closely. I hope that the Minister will members who represent that area. One of recognise that this is one of the unpalatable them is not here, but two of the other mem­ parts of the legislation for many of us bers of the A.L.P. team are present. We on this side of the Chamber. We do not find that ,there would be in fact, if we take like to see too much power concentrated weighted average indications (and I am in one place, and that probably is one area dubious about weighted averages because that worries all of us. they are very simplistic anyway and because As to the Brisbane City Council electdcity they can shift in emphasis), across the board undertaking-there is ground for believing something like a 12 or 13 per cent reduction that the council will attempt to make con­ in eleotricity charges in the Capricornia siderable capital out of the Bill. We have 428 Electricity Bill [14 SEPTEMBER 1976) Electricity Bill

heard, Mr. Hewitt, how efficient the coun­ anyway, and in which thousands and cil's undertaking is. Actually, what the council thousands more people are being added to seems to have done over several years is the population-there is strong reason for make very handsome profits out of the the incorporation of this total complex into people of Brisbane, and it has done it by one entity. subterfuge. Because it has not shown a clear accounting residual that could easily be Frankly, whether it is operated by the established and argued against, the profit Brisbane City Council-and, after all, the has been buried in its accounting system. council comes under the State Government With some of these hidden profits, the -or some other authority under the control council has managed to bear all sorts of of the Government is immaterial, provided costs of departments other than the Electricity the standard of management is competent Department. It is a certainty that it will and provided there is an equitable balance squeal like a stuck pig at being divested of of operations. its electricity undertaking, because it has I am worried about any attempt being used it to milk the cow. made to race equalisation in over a short period. I would be extremely concerned When one looks at some of the weighted if that happened and if substantial increases averages-and again I caution that weighted took place in a short-term period. averages can be meaningless if they are not taken in the proper context-and at com­ [Sitting suspended from 6 to 7.15 p.m.] mercial and industrial supply, one sees that uniform tariffs will hardly touch businesses Mr. DOUMANY: Before the dinner recess in the city, notwithstanding the fact that I was talking about the equalisation concept the Minister has assured the Committee that and the idea of the State-wide grid and the the Bill is going to give 15 years' grace fact that, provided we take the long-term for an eventual equalisation of tariffs. If point of view, the two go together. We have tariffs were equalised now, tariffs to businesses been assured by the Minister that this -small businesses particularly-would hardly measure is a long-term one so far as equal­ move, because small businesses have been isation is concerned. Provided it is a long­ raped by the Brisbane City Council and term measure and provided that in the long that is where much of the profit has been term we see married to it technological pro­ sucked from. gress in the generation and costs of genera­ The Brisbane City Council has been bury­ tion and distribution of power, and provided ing many of its fixed costs in the electricity we see the maximisation of economies of supply venture. I hope that the Minister scale and the most economical approach to will ask the council-I believe that he will the production and supply of electricity, the -for an honest statement of those costs proposed arrangements will work in the best that will become a disability when the under­ interests of the State. taking is taken away from the council. For example, if there is a computer operating I reiterate however that two or three m.lt­ in the council and part of the time of that ters cause me grave concern. The first is the computer is being allocated against the elec­ enormous centralisation of authority and tricity venture and it is impossible to find power that is implicit in the proposed legis­ alternative avenues of using that time, I lation. The second, and one that causes a believe there is ground for compensation of fear that is based on politics but is none the costs. I am not talking about compensation less a real one, is the very likely exploitation of assets, which the Minister explained satis­ of this issue by the present administration in factorily in his speech. the Brisbane City Council, who have man­ aged to effect a net profit of approximately If there are certain areas of staffing where $2,400,000 on the operations of the council's part of the time has been devoted to elec­ electricity undertaking. That sum is obtained tricity and part of the time to other functions from the latest figures available, which 'Ire of the council and it is impossible to ration­ now 1t years old, and no doubt it has been alise that staff function, again I am sure that augmented by the hidden salting away of the Minister, if he can get an honest appraisal profits against various areas of fixed costs. from the council, will do his best to arrive It must be a matter of concern to Govern­ at an equitable arrangement on costs. If ment members that the council will attempt we can look at things in that reasonable way, to take advantage of this situation, knowing if we can also understand that the more full well, however, that over some years it the council squeals, the more evident it will has been able to extract excessive tariff in be to the public that the council has been some areas, particularly in commerce and taking the public for a ride, if we can also industry. see some of the fundamental economic con­ siderations that exist around the perimeter I see every reason why we must look at of Brisbane-that is, that the growth of some new concepts in the pricing of ~lcc­ that part of the city which is being governed tricity. We already have a limited degree of by the council as a local authority has marginal pricing on the basis of off-peak actually been taking place outside the per­ usage. We have limited areas of application. imeter of the council's influence and, in I would like to see consumers offered a much fact, has been taking place in fringe suburbs, wider range of off-peak pricing, one giving a which are not being serviced by the council, truer representation to consumers of the Electricity Bill (14 SEPTEMBER 1976} Electricity Bill 429 economies that they provide to an electricity­ Mr. Miller: Who should subsidise them? supply authority as a result of programming their own usage. Mr. HOUSTON: The State as a whole. The next matter for concern, and one Mr. Miller: Because they are people of that should be looked at by the Leader of the State? the Opposition in relation to the bearing of costs by consumers, is that of quantity dis­ Mr. HOUSTON: Yes. In other words-­ count, which is implicit in electricity pricing. Quantity discounts tend to hit those in the Mr. Miller interjected. lower income group who use less electricity. I am speaking particularly about domestic Mr. HOUSTON: If the honourable mem­ users. People in that group do not possess ber listened, he would learn something about the potential for usage in terms of appliances economics. If the subsidy came from Con­ and facilities in their households. By the solidated Revenue, it would be paid by the same token retired couples do not have a State as a whole. It should be remembered large number of people in their households that people pay into Consolidated Revenue using power. Whatever the reason under­ according to their ability to pay. That is the lying their smaller usage, we tend to dis­ difference between asking persons to pay in­ criminate against the smaller users. There is dividually through electricity accounts. no question that, at present, they heavily sub­ The honourable member for Kurilpa was sidise those who use larger quantities of ~lec­ quite right in expressing worry and concern tricity because of their higher incomes and about persons with small incomes and those capacity to own more applicances. who use only a small amount of electricity I emphasise these points on domestic tariff. in Brisbane. They have to pay more so that Discrimination exists already through quan­ a lower tariff can be given to someone else­ tity discounts. Perhaps the Leader of the where in the State. Opposition should take a very close look at this point before prattling on about a subsidy Mr. Katter: You would have agreed with to be borne by one section of the State's the petrol price subsidy that the Labor Gov­ electricity consumers for the benefit of the ernment cut out? rest. Mr. HOUSTON: I did agree with it, but If the Minister can gear rationalisation to a the present Government has not reintroduced 15-year period (spread as evenly as possible it. The present Government would have cut over that period), and if the economies of it out if it had been in power. scale are introduced in this over-all supply grid, I believe that through good manage­ Mr. Katter interjected. ment and good government the Bill can provide benefits for Queenslanders wherever Mr. HOUSTON: The honourable mem­ they live. ber will have plenty of opportunity to make his own speech if he is capable of doing so. Mr. HOUSTON (Bulimba) (7.22 p.m.): I am pleased to speak to this legislation. The The Minister said that the proposal is Minister has not so far told us about all the three years old. He also said that there was ramifications and problems associated with no opposition to it. It is easy to say that the introduction of the legislation. It is true there is no opposition if one does not read to say that, basically, the Minister is trying newspapers or listen to public opinion. The to give cheaper electricity to people in documentation recorded in newspaper reports country areas. No-one could fight against is that in 1973, three years ago, there was that. opposition to the proposal. There was opposi­ tion to it from the then Lord Mayor, Aider­ Mr. Bjelke-Petersen: Do you agree with man Jones. The Minister then handling it that? (Hon. H. A. McKechnie) was well aware of Mr. HOUSTON: Yes, I do. As a matter the opposition of Alderman Jones. At that of fact the Government Sltole this idea, poli­ time Alderman Ord, the then Leader of tically speaking, from our 1969 policy. I the C.M.O. in Opposition in ,the Brisbane agree completely with this idea and what City Council, also expressed opposi­ the Government is trying to achieve. tion to the proposal. Both those statements were recorded by the news media at that Mr. Bjelke-Petersen: You will support it? t~me. Since then many people have expressed Mr. HOUSTON: I will come to that. opposition to it. Firstly I shall outline a little of the history. This is the type of legislation that the I support the principle. Government floats to the public. It floated I see no reason why people living in far it in 1973, and the reports were that it distant areas of the State should be penal­ was to come before the Parliament in 1974. ised by being charged higher electricity It did not eventuate. Only now is it coming tariffs. But, by the same token, I do not before the Parliament-and only after it believe that electricity consumers in Bris­ has had a fairly rough passage through bane or Toowoomba should be asked to caucus. I do not know what the Minister personally subsidise people living in other said to convince the metropolitan members areas. that this is a good idea. 430 Electricity Bill (14 SEPTEMBER 1976] Electricity Bill

There is a great difference between sub­ extra money if the scheme being contem­ sidising electricity charges in one area from plated by the Government was introduced. Consolidated Revenue-that is, from the It is quite clear that there is a difference overall funds available to the Government­ of opinion between the Government and the and making the users in one part of the Australian Labor Party on the way to handle State subsidise the users in another part. The it. It has been made very clear. member for Kurilpa said that I had announced this measure on behalf of the Mr. Jensen: Government members are A.L.P. in a policy speech. I did-but I very quiet. did not announce that it would happen in Mr. HOUSTON: Yes, because they now this way. I said this in 1969 and I repeated know the difference. I do not know what it in 1972. I cannot recall what happened Government members were told in their in 1974, because I did not deliver our caucus meeting, but anybody who told them policy speech then. However, what I said that the scheme before them is the same as in 1969 and 1972 was that the Labor Party ours is not right according to the facts. in Government would subsidise supply charges so that at any given time the cost J\1r. Katter: A moment ago you said you to the consumers in other parts of the State agreed with our scheme. would be no greater that the cost to con­ Mr. HOUSTON: The honourable mem­ sumers in the area controlled by the Bris­ ber should get back onto his camel and listen bane City Council. There was no expression for a moment. What I said was that the then that the people of Brisbane would Government agreed with our principle but in any shape or form be paying increased that the implementation of the Government tariffs. As honourable members know, the scheme is entirely different from ours. The charges then made were subject to con­ Government is asking the Brisbane con­ trol by the State Electricity Commission. sumer to subsidise the consumers living out­ When I made that statement in my policy side Brisbane, and that is the difference. I speech in 1969, the present Minister-and believe that the Bill will result in an increase I am sure he will recall this-said that it to the consumers in Brisbane and in other would cost the State Government $6,000,000. major centres. In all of these areas there His advisers, I imagine, gave him that figure. will be an increase to the consumer and It was pretty close to what my advisers that is the difference between the two gave me, so I have no argument with it. schemes. However, I think that clearly shows the Some time ago the Government asked the difference between our policies. Labor's Brisbane City Council to introduce ration­ policy was that the State would subsidise alisation of power generation and the council the supply authorities; that other areas would agreed to hand over generation to the charge the same rates as Brisbane and that Southern Electric Authority. It was said the resultant loss would be subsidised by at that time that the people of Brisbane the Government. The Minister said that it would get cheaper power. That turned out would cost the State Government $6,000,000 to be false, too, because the electricity to do it and I said, "So what? The country charges to Brisbane people increased after people are entitled to that." that scheme came in. However, it did not come to pass, as we did not become the Government. In Mr. Gibbs: Alderman Brian Walsh. 1972 I said the same thing. The Minister's Mr. HOUSTON: The scheme was advisers then said that it would cost close brought in long before Alderman Walsh's to $9,000,000. Again I agreed. Again I term as Lord Mayor. believed that the State as a whole, from Consolidated Revenue, could afford to meet As far as I am concerned, I believe that that cost. I believed that it would be good the generation of electricity could well be economics to do it, because then we would handled by one authority. be able to say to industry. "It will pay you, on the basis of the charge for your Mr. Carum: You're not in agreement with consumption of electricity, to open up into your mate? He doesn't believe in centralisa­ country areas." It was part and parcel of tion. a scheme of decentralisation that the Labor Mr. HOUSTON: The Minister can be Party had in mind. Again in 1972 we were very smug and smart. condemned by the National and Liberal Parties, through their spokesmen, because it Mr. Camm: You are disagreeing with was going to cost so much money. your leader. What the Government is saying through Mr. HOUSTON: I was speaking person­ this measure is that it is going to cost the ally. State practically nothing; in other words, the additional cost will be borne by the con­ Mr. Carum: As long as I know. sumers in areas such as Brisbane and Too­ Mr. HOUSTON: Government members woomba. Even as far back as 1973 the are the only people who are allowed to have Honourable H. A. McKechnie and Mr. their own views! Murray, the commissioner, both admitted that it would cost the people of Brisbane Mr. Carum: No. Electricity Bill [14 SEPTEMBER 1976] Electricity Bill 431

Mr. HOUSTON: Yes. The Minister is I return to my main concerns. The first is the first one to scream. I have far more to see equalisation throughout the State, but freedom of expression than he has as a I say that the Government is going about it Cabinet Minister. Every time the Premier in the wrong way. says "jump", the Minister jumps and he My second concern is for the people of jumps very hard and very high. Let us not Brisbane and other areas which at present worry about that. have very successful electricity undertakings. So far as I am personally concerned I The Government wants to take this suc­ say that there are certain advantages in cessful operation from the Brisbane City having uniform control of generation, Council. For donkey's years it has been because of the grid system and everything trying to wreck the Brisbane City Council. else. One means after another has been tried to Mr. Camm: Now I know why they achieve this end. The Government reduced dumped you as leader. the number of aldermen and then it took from the people of Brisbane the right to elect Mr. HOUSTON: Perhaps the Minister their lord mayor. But the Government has does, but I am still in this Parliament and not taken over any of the problems of the will be here when he is no longer in it; let Brisbane City Council. It has not reliend there be no worry about that one. If I the council of its transport problem; it is had the same problems in my electorate as still dilly-dallying with that. The Govern­ the Minister has in his, I would be worried. ment is doing little about flood mitigation. Distribution is a different matter altogether But it wants to take over the electricity because in distribution there is a selling to undertaking because it is being run efficiently the public. One of the problems the Govern­ and in the interests of the people of Brisbane. ment has is that the major powerhouse is at I warn the people of Brisbane that, in Gladstone. It wilJ soon be coming on addition to charging them more for elec­ line in full strength and the Government has tricity, the Government will make them pay made so many secret low-cost deals with more in rates, irrespective of whether they private industries, particularly Comalco, that own their homes. Landlords will pay more in it has to get its profit from somewhere else. rates which means that tenants will have to Mr. Hartwig: We put 20,000 people into pay higher rents. At present the profit from Gladstone. the council's electricity undertaking is used in other activities for the benefit of the Mr. HOUSTON: The Government might people. have, but how many people has it kept in Mr. Camm: Is that right? constant employment in Gladstone? Mr. HOUSTON: Yes, it is right. Honourable Members interjected. Mr. Camm: You agree with that? The CHAIRMAN: Order! Mr. HOUSTON: Of course I agree with it. Mr. HOUSTON: The trouble with country The Minister uses profit made by the Main Government members is that when they Roads Department on other than main roads. come to the city, the city slickers among their Cabinet Ministers tell them anything at Mr. Camm: Profit from the Main Roads all and they believe it. Department? What are you talking about? It could be argued that 22 distribution Mr. HOUSTON: The money obtained authorities are just too many but, by the from registration of motor vehicles. That IS other token, I do not see why all distribu­ not all put back into roads. tion should be taken over by so very few Mr. Camm: Every penny. authorities. The Minister spoke about decentralisation. Mr. HOUSTON: Of course it is not. The I believe in decentralisation at the point Government makes profits that are not where it matters, which is the distribution of returned to the undertakings from which power. After all, a consumer does not care they are made. Are profits from the mining whether the power that he uses is generated industry put back into mining? Of course at Cooktown, Cairns, Gladstone or Brisbane. not! Any local authority that makes a profit His only concern is that he has power when on its electricity undertaking uses that profit he wants it and the charge is reasonable. If for the benefit of the people. If the profits he has any reason to complain or wants any in Brisbane are not used for that purpose, information, he does not go to the generating rates will increase. The Government's action authority; he goes to the distributing auth­ on electricity will lead to an increase in ority. That is what I believe should be the rates in Brisbane. principle of decentralisation. There will also be additional transport Mr. Hartwig: That is exactly what the costs or fewer services. Government audi­ Bill will do. tors examine the books of the Brisbane City Council and the Minister knows full Mr. HOUSTON: It will set up only a very well that every year those books have to be few distribution centres, as the honourable balanced. He knows full well that the profit member well knows. from the Brisbane City Council's Electricity 432 Electricity Bill (14 SEPTEMBER 1976] Electricity Bill

Department is used for other activities for finances. They cannot now go to the Com­ the benefit of the ratepayers. One thing monwealth or anywhere else to get extra about the members of the National Party­ money. They have to get almost all their the Liberal Party, too-is that they hate Bris­ money from rates or an electricity under­ bane and its people. To both those parties, taking which makes a reasonable profit. Do the people of Brisbane are of no importance not forget that any profit they make is based at all; that is why they are being sold out. on charges that are considered and approved by the State Electricity Commission, so there Mr. Lamont interjected. is no way that the Brisbane City Council can Mr. HOUSTON: That is why the hon­ do the wrong thing by the citizens of Bris­ ourable member for South Brisbane is very bane. But the Government is certainly doing worried about the Bill. He is not worri~d the wrong thing. about the people of Brisbane; he is worried Mr. :UNDSAY (Everton) (7.43 p.m.): At only about his political future. last Wednesday's joint party meeting, I Mr. LAMONT: I rise to a point of order. opposed this measure and that fact was I take exception to that remark. I am con­ reported in "The Courier-Mail" the follow­ siderably worried for the people of Brisbane, ing morning. I might add that it certainly and for the member for Bulimba. was not reported as a result of anything I said to anyone associated with the Press. THE CHAIRMAN: Order! There is no However, I rise this evening to express point of order. basically the same argument as I put at the party meeting, but possibly in this environ­ Mr. HOUSTON: I am very pleased to ment I will have a better chance of amplify­ hear that the honourable member is worried ing those remarks. and I am sure that he will cross the floor, if need be, to oppose some measures he This Bill apparently seeks to join into a does not agree with. single industry a Government department and 22 different electric authorities. That I completely agree with the principle of will cost money. I would support the con­ helping to reduce electricity charges for cept contained in the Bill of eventual equali­ country people, but I disagree with making sation of tariffs throughout Queensland, as the consumers in Brisbane, Toowoomba and all Queenslanders are entitled to the benefit other places subsidise them. The finance of the State's ample resources of cheap necessary for this should come out of Con­ coal. The question is: who is to pay the solidated Revenue, which would mean increased costs? The Minister plans to that the whole of the cost would be obtain the revenue from the electricity con­ equally distributed. The Government is sumer in the south-east corner of Queens­ going about this completely the wrong land. I would argue that what is of benefit way. I am worried for the people of to all Queenslanders should be paid for by Brisbane, and for the people of my own elec­ all the taxpayers of Queensland. The con­ torate, because their rates will go up; their cept of the consumer paying for what he or electricity charges will go up and, last but she consumes is fair, except when extra costs not least, their transport costs will go up. are placed on a sectional group of consumers How other paying concerns will be affected in order that all consumers may benefit. only time will tell. In 1976 electricity-the flow of electrons Mr. Camm: Why don't you be a Queens­ -is not a luxury; it is a necessity. Rising lander for a change? costs of electricity production are of them­ selves already pricing the commodity out of Mr. HOUSTON: I am a Queenslander! the reach of the poor. I do not know if any Let the Minister be an Australian for a honourable members have experienced it, change. He is one of those who wanted to but it is quite sad when a deserted wife with secede from this great nation. He wants to three or four children comes along and says be a Queenslander when it suits him, but that her electricity supply has been cut off for goodness sake do not force him to be because she cannot pay her bill. I have had an Australian, because then he would have to that experience, and I am sure other honour­ associate with Canberra, which many hon­ able members have, too. ourable members opposite think of as a foreign capital city. The eight-page advertisement in the latest "Sunday Mail" explaining the advantages of I am for Queensland, as I said, and I solar heating over expensive electrical heat­ back my statement with the support of very ing is indicative of wide consumer dissatis­ many thousands of people. The important faction with rising electricity costs. Are we difference in principle is the method adopted. now to impose an extra cost increase on all All that the Government is doing is getting of the people of my electorate as if each stuck into the people of Brisbane. Not only and every one has the same capacity to pay is the Labor city council administration for the benefits resulting to all Queens­ against this Bill; so is the Leader of the landers? If we are, then I have serious Liberal Party, Alderman McDonald, and so reservations. are the other Liberal members of the Bris­ People in my electorate dearly do not bane City Council who realise the problems have equal capacity to pay for benefits to associated with Brisbane and with council all the State when all the people of the State Electricity Bill (14 SEPTEMBER 1976] Electricity Bill 433 are not required to do so. There are the member for Bulimba did in his speech. He aged, the ill, the unemployed and the could not see farther than the boundaries deserted wives with children to whom I have of his own electorate. referred already. Presently they all pay for The proposed Bill sets out to create two the electricity they consume. Making them boards. One is to be a generating authority pay extra in an across-the-board ruling so for the whole of Queensland, and this will that the State as a whole may benefit is become a reality for the first time and will clearly wrong in principle. be of great importance. The initiatives outlined by the Minister Mr. Jensen: What importance? should rightly, I believe, be paid for by the taxpayers of all Queensland not only by Mr. HARTWIG: Let me look at that the rich, the aged, the poor, the ill and the question. At present there are many power infirm of a section of Queensland. There­ stations situated throughout Queensland. fore, I will have difficulty in supporting the These will continue to produce electricity; measure unless the Minister can "dump"­ they will not go out of production. Con­ I think that is the term-my argument. sideration is being given to the construction of a super powerhouse that will cost about Mr. HARTWIG (Callide) (7.46 p.m.): I $300,000,000 when completed. What an in­ support the Minister in his introduction of dustry for Queensland! If any other enter­ this Bill relating to the electricity supply prise came to Queensland saying that it industry. The reticulation of electricity would inject $300,000,000 into the economy throughout Queensland is, and has been for of the State it would be welcomed with open some time, one of the major undertakings arms. entered into in this State. Queensland is a I would suggest that the super power vast State with a huge area in which isola­ station at Gladstone has been responsible tion is a problem, and millions of dollars for the creation of thousands of jobs. The have been spent on the generation of elec­ honourable member for Port Curtis would be tricity and the construction of transmission aware of this. The construction of two lines. The industry today is one of which 275 kV transmission lines from Brisbane all Queenslanders can be proud, because to Gladstone and from Gladstone to Nebo Queensland is the most decentralised State and eventually Collinsville will entail a in the Commonwealth of Australia. great amount of work and the employment of a very large work-force. Similarly the History has proved that countries that use distribution of electricity to the coal-fields the most electricity have the highest stand­ provides jobs for hundreds of men. Surely ard of living; one finds evidence of that in it is time that we took stock of the value the United States of America and other rich of power to our great State. And we hear industrial countries. Electricity is the very an Opposition member complain that people basis of all industrial development; it also in Brisbane will pay increased electricity meets most domestic requirements, although charges! in this field it has a competitor in gas. Elec­ I am surprised at the conduct of the tridty is very powerful, convenient and sil­ honourable member for Bulimba. The other ent; it is also non-polluting. Its advantages day I told him that I regarded him, to some are so great that I repeat that electricity extent, as a statesman. Having heard his reticulation is a basic requirement for the speech tonight, however, I am obliged to development of any area. retract my statement. I pay tribute to the State Electricity Com­ As Mr. MmTay, who is sitting in the public mission of Queensland for the part it has gallery, would be aware, in 1967 the played in £urthering the reticulation of elec­ Capricornia Regional Electricity Board tricity. Because of its administration and undertook to purchase two gas turbines at a the planning that has gone into the proposed cost of $2,000,000. At that time the Callide Bill, the whole of Queensland will be in­ dam was nearly empty and the board had to corporated in the one system. The area of keep faith not only with the mining industry Victoria and New South Wales combined and Comalco but with the domestic con­ is only half that of Queensland, so no-one sumers as well. The consumers supplied by could truthfully suggest that this State is the C.R.E.B. footed the bill for the purchase not pulling its weight. of those turbines, from which power even­ The honourable member for Bulimba tually found its way into the city of Brisbane. who resumed his seat immediately before Tonight the ex-Leader of the Opposition I rose to speak, and who has now denigrates the Bill and tells us that only left the Chamber, made some very Brisbane matters. irrelevant remarks about power. I heard I could introduce the honourable member him say that rates will go up in for Bulimba to three of my electors who had Brisbane and that transport and electricity to pay as much as $27,000 to be connected costs will increase. How one-eyed can a to the three-phase power supply. In con­ man get? I thought we were all members trast, people in Brisbane are connected free of the Queensland Parliament. I did not of charge. think we came here to represent only one A Government Member: And no guaran­ electorate in particular, as the honourable tees. 434 Electricity Bill [14 SEPTEMBER 1976] Electricity Bill

Mr. HARTWIG: In city areas, cer­ Today, coal at Swanbank costs $18 a tonne, tainly with no guarantees. That is the price but it can be supplied at Callide for about the people in the country have to pay. And $8 to $9 a tonne. Surely blind Freddie the honourable member for Bulimba wails and members of the Opposition are not so about a slight increase in tariff charges! naive that they do not realise that in five If it were not for the power station at years' time the cost of coal at Swanbank Gladstone, within five years and with a con­ will be so high that electric power will be tinuation of the present rate of inflation the beyond the consumer's ability to pay. That people of Brisbane would be paying for is the very point the honourable member electricity three times the present rates. I for Bulimba was trying to make. will go even further. When we were negotiat­ By introducing this Bill, the Minister, ing with Canberra for finance to help build thank God, is trying to bring stability to the Gladstone Power Station-and in those the electricity supply industry in Queensland. negotiations I was fortunate to be able to We intend to generate power in a major play a pretty important part-the then Prime power station and distribute it throughout Minister, Mr. Gorton, twice asked, "Where Queensland. If people in the metropolitan is the industry at Gladstone, where is the area have to pay a slight increase for power industry in Central Queensland, that requires following the passage of this Bill-and I the expenditure of $200,000,000 on a power doubt very much that they will-I can only station?" We were hopeful that we would say that but for the grid system envisaged get the money, but it was not until an in this Bill they would be in serious trouble assurance was given that the populated areas within five years. I recall that 12 months ago of Queensland, including Brisbane, would coal was costing $14 a tonne at SWanbank. be the beneficiaries of this super power An increase of $4 a tonne took place in station that the Commonwealth agreed to 12 months. What would be the increase in advance the money. Therein lies a tale. The three to five years and what would that mean Commonwealth Government agreed to to the cost of power? advance the money on the condition that the The south-eastern corner and the rest of people of Queensland, including those in the State should remember the old adage that Brisbane, benefited from the availability of the bigger the power station, the cheaper it cheap coal in Central Queensland. is to produce power. That has been proved If anyone has the right to growl, it is the throughout the world. On overseas standards people of Central Queensland, particularly Gladstone is not a big power station, but those in the outlying areas. If the power it is certainly big on our standards. station had been built in Gladstone by Mr. Marginson: Moreton coal in 1972 was C.R.E.B. from its own funds or by any cheaper than it was in 1962. other local enterprise, Central Queensland would have been able to offer a much more Mr. HARTWIG: The point I am making attractive proposition than Brisbane, Wol­ -and it cannot be denied-is that the longong and Newcastle for the setting up people of Queensland will have coal in the of industries. Tremendous development power station at a hell of a lot cheaper would have occurred in Central Queensland. rate than they can get it from existing coal­ However, the Government exercised its right fields throughout the State, particularly in and said that the people of Queensland the south-eastern corner. The people generally generally, not one area alone, must benefit. will be the beneficiaries of power generated That is the story surrounding the opening of in Central Queensland. If there is any the super power station at Gladstone, which increase, it will be minimal when compared will take place next Friday. with what it would be if Brisbane did not Under the original plan four 275 MW sets join the grid system and if Gladstone was were to go to Gladstone. It must be not commissioned as a super power station. remembered that the Commonwealth grant Finally, I say that I fought like hell to was made on the condition that power would have two 275 MW sets put in at Callide. be generated and reticulated from Gladstone We have coal and we ha,ve water. In the into the south-east corner and therefore two interests of this State and its power genera­ 275kV lines were constructed to co-ordinate tion, no power station that is so big that the grid system. it will be supplying at least four-fifths Because there are 22 regional electric of the power required by Queensland should authority boards, it is logical to reduce that be allowed to grow bigger. I believe that total to a reasonable number. After some we should diversify; that as our State is so debate the number was reduced to five and large we should not have all electricity gen­ then extended to seven distribution authorities. eration in the one place. I think the mem­ The authorities will be responsible for the ber for Port Curtis would be the first to planning and reticulation of power in their agree with ,that statement. regions. They will purchase electricity in We should compliment the State Electricity bulk from the major power station in the Commission, which for years has been cap­ State. tained by Doug Murray. I have had the I am deeply concerned when I witness pleasure of sitting on a board with him. efforts to pit town against country. That He is a man who has devoted a lifetime to is the last thing that any statesman or electricity supply. Our Minister for Mines politician worth his salt would think of. and Energy knows our electricity supply and Electricity Bill [14 SEPTEMBER 1976] Electricity Bill 435 the m!TIITig industry backwards. We must the number of regional boards from four to have faith in what those two men are doing seven and to have members of those boards and attempting to do. We must back this drawn from local councils. During this time Bill to the hilt. I honestly believe that the the reorganisation advisory committee had introduction of the grid system for the been set up; it was dissolved in May 1974. reticulation of electricity throughout the State In August 1974 the Minister and the Lord of Queensland will in the long run benefit Mayor agreed to form a committee to report every consumer in the State. It will entice on proposed reorganisation as it affected the industry to Queensland in a far more effective Brisbane City Council. The committee failed way than we are able to do it now. to agree and the Brisbane City Council sub­ I resented the member for Bulimba mak­ mitted an independent report on the prob­ ing the point that this Government connived able effect of the reorganisation. with Comalco ,to build at Gladstone. I do In February 1975 the authorities in not think anybody would regret the move Queensland tabled a considerable volume of Comalco made to Gladstone. That decision written comment and proposed revision. has been responsible for thousands of job They met the commissioner at this time to opportunities and for the development of discuss draft legislation. Some agreement Gladstone, its port and its hinterland. When was reached about the budget approval and there is development such as that, credit the authorities were invited to submit state­ must be given where it is due. I have much ments of dissent. In 1975, at the Queensland pleasure in supporting the Bill. Electric Authorities Conference. the Minister Mr. BROWN (Clayfield) (8.03 p.m.): In replied to the statements of dissent. So it rising to participate in this debate let me goes on. I have a great deal more informa­ first make it quite clear that I am a Queens­ tion here. I wanted to impress on some hon­ lander; I hope to speak as a Queenslander ourable members the amount of work that and not as a city bigot. has gone into the preparation of the Bill. I have been doing such research as I can on I was most interested to hear the mem­ it and I am impressed. ber for Bulimba complain bitterly that the Minister had not covered all the ramifica­ What impressed me more than anything tions of the Bill. To me, that seems a lot else was the Minister's indication of his to expect, bearing in mind the time, the con­ intention, I think to the 1975 Queensland sultation and the research that has been Electricity Authorities Conference, as fd­ devoted to the preparation of the Bill. I lows- for one feel that there is much to study. I take issue also on the statement of the mem­ (a) That a first-reading draft of the Bill ber for Bulimba that city consumers are will be made available to each electric about to subsidise country consumers. That authority at the earliest possible time; presupposes that the rich people live in the (b) That he is prepared to receive at city and the poor people live in the country. that time further representations from any In saying that, I do not mean to indicate electric authority on any matter in the that I am not prepared at this early stage Bill; and to have a good, hard look at the Bill. At the (c) That he would prefer such represen· outset, however, I will say that there is no tations to be made to him through the argument at all about ,the principle of com­ commission. pletion of the Queensland grid system. The I believe that to be very fair. linking together of the electricity generating capacity throughout the State, which I under­ Moving onto the question of the Brisbane stand will be completed in 1978, is no mean City Council-! have here a pamphlet which feat of engineering. This will bring about was issued with my electricity account a few economies of considerable scale. weeks ago. The front page reads- We should be quite clear that the full "Attention All Electricity Consumers of benefit of the power generated at the Glad­ Your Brisbane City Council." stone Power Station will not be available It makes the following points- until 1982-83. That is to the order of ~ix or seven years off, but it might well mean, "The enclosed account could, over a with the sixth set coming on stream at the period, rise to about 13.5 per cent greater new Gladstone Power Station, a substanti;~l if the present plan is adopted by the State contribution to the reduction of electricity Government." costs in the south-east Queensland area. "Furthermore:- I believe that the matters pertaining to the introduction of the Bill do the Minister " Do you know that because of Bulk credit. We are all aware of the in-depth Supply increases, the retail tariffs in Bris­ consultation with the electric authorities bane compared to Sydney and Melbourne, in Queensland and it is pertinent at this over the last 5 years will rise to:- time to cover a few of them. Brisbane Sydney Melbourne In January 1974 the Minister met the 76% 39% 35% Cairns board and several interested groups. Retain Your $1,000,000 Asset That You In April 1974 Cabinet decided to increase Have Paid For." 436 Electricity Bill (14 SEPTEMBER 1976] Electricity Bill

That asset belongs to the people and I do their salaries, together with those of various not think that they care very much whether officers, is paid by that undertaking. I it is run by the Brisbane City Council or have with me tonight the duly audited annual by some other authority. That has no effect report of the Brisbane City Council. Con­ on them. The pamphlet continues- trary to what was said by the honourable "The Brisbane City Council is vigorously member for Bulimba, the Brisbane City opposing the take over as proposed for Council does not make a profit. It is non­ the following reasons: sense to say that it does. It is not the council's function to make a profit. "The B.C.C. Department of Electricity can and should remain with the Council I have heard it asserted that the Bris­ and still achieve the State Government bane City Council makes a profit of 100 objectives. per cent. The truth is that the mark-up by the Brisbane City Council on its bulk buy­ "The take over of the Department of ing rate is 68.9 per cent, which represents Electricity will increase your rates and a gross profit of 40.79 per cent if looked deplete Council finances." at in a business-like way. The cost per On the back of the pamphlet is an appeal unit on the bulk rate is 1.746 and the from the Lord Mayor. It reads- average sale price per unit is 2.949. So "1 urge you:-appeal to your local, State much for the 100 per cent profit! A great and Federal parliamentarian to stop this deal of that money is, quite properly, take over." ploughed back into the electricity undertak­ ing. About $2,400,000 is absorbed in It is signed, "F. Sleeman, Lord Mayor." It administrative costs, many of which will is with great interest that I look forward continue. to receiving considerable correspondence The suggestion is to set up seven regional from my constituents on this matter. boards-the Far North, North Queensland, Mackay, Capricornia, Wide Bay-Burnett, The matter of divesting the Brisbane City South-east Queensland and South-west Council of its distribution authority needs, I believe, very close consideration because Queensland boards. I believe it would not be unreasonable for honourable members to con­ despite what has been said in the Chamber sider whether the Brisbane City Council tonight, it could lead to an increase in rates. The reason for this is that the Brisbane should be another board. City Council has an administrative structure There is another matter to be considered. under which costs are apportioned. It must At present the Brisbane City Council sup­ be borne in mind that approximately 43 plies electricity at the bulk rate for street­ per cent of revenue is derived from the lighting, traffic-lighting, the pumping of electricity undertaking and at present appro­ water (which is a considerable cost), the imately $2,400,000 a year is attributed to pumping of sewerage, the operation of treat­ administrative costs. Many of those costs ment plants and the like. In addition to will continue whether or not the council is those uses, a considerable amount of elec­ divested of its electricity undertaking. I tricity is used within the framework of think we should all recognise that. the Brisbane City Council. Once divested of its electricity undertaking, the Brisbane For instance, five aldermen are concerned City Council, I take it, would become another with the administration of the electricity commercial or industrial consumer. This undertaking and, quite properly, portion of must lead to an increase in costs. As to the efficiency of the Brisbane City Council, I wish to quote from its annual report for 1974-75 comparative figures as between the Brisbane City Council and the Sydney City Council. They are-

Personnel Personnel Customers Buying I Selling Mark up -- per 1,000 per million per km of price per price per as % of customers units sold line unit unit buying price c c Brisbane City Council 5·71 0·53 30-49 1·746 2'949 68·90 Sydney City Council 10·94 0·90 33·50 1·270 2·350 85·04

I do not think anyone can argue with those between 1972 and 1976 by 53.05 per cent figures on efficiency. I am aware that under whereas in Sydney the increase was 39.45 its charter the Brisbane City Council is per cent and in Melbourne it was 35.91 per obliged to be efficient; those figures prove cent. For the same period in Brisbane com­ that it is. mercial tariffs increased by 57.87 per cent, whereas in Sydney the increase was 41.96 I must express concern at the way elec­ per cent and in Melbourne, 31.27 per cent. tricity has increased in price in Brisbane in In the same period industrial tariffs increased the last few years. Domestic tariffs increased in Brisbane by 67.22 per cent whereas in Electricity Bill [14 SEPTEMBER 1976] Electricity Bill 437

Sydney they increased by 41.85 per cent and nerves. I detected a similar edge on the in Melbourne 34.9 per cent. I find this quite voice of the Leader of the Opposition tonight disturbing because Brisbane increases in the when he became excited. I wonder whether price of electricity far outstripped those of there are any other similarities between our sister capital cities. the Leader of the Opposition and Laurie It has been said that the generating capa­ Carmichael, because it is becoming abun­ city in this State at present is about 2,030 dantly clear to the people of this State MW. In seven years' time that will have that the Leader of the Opposition promotes increased to something slightly over 4,000 all sorts of policies that would help people MW, which is an annual rate of increase of of Laurie Carmichael's political persuasion. 13 per cent. I think this is a very healthy I contrast the speech made by the Leader situation which augurs well for the future of of the Opposition with that made by the this State in terms of capacity, but we have deposed Leader, the honourable member for to relate this somewhere along the line to Bulimba. He put forward a reasoned argu­ price. At this stage I reserve the right to ment. Although Government members do study the Bill further, and at an appropriate not agree with it, it did show the difference time in the future to make further com­ between the two men and how the Opposition ments on it. has declined in recent years. It deposed a Mr. McKECHNIE (Carnarvon) (8.19 man who tries to put forward a logical p.m.): I rise to support the Bill and to con­ view and replaced him with a man who goes gratulate the Minister and the commissioner off half-cocked on everything that he thinks for the hard work they have done in its might gain him a little bit of publicity in preparation. Some time ago the Minister the newspapers. gave draft instructions to his committee and The Leader of the Opposition had a great it has worked very hard to try to bring for­ deal of say about the State Electricity Com­ ward the best possible Bill. I must admit mission raping Brisbane, and he mentioned that I have a special pride in this Bill be­ particularly the recent case in which the cause my father had much to do with its commission was overruled by the appropriate preparation in the early stages. I was court. He neglected to say that the court speaking to him today, and I know how found in favour of the Brisbane City Council pleased he is that the Bill is eventually being purely on a point of law. Mr. Justice brought before the Parliament. Matthews said that the commission had acted I was amazed to hear the Leader of the on a wrong principle in law but that did Opposition speak about centralising too much not mean that the price determined was power in the commissioner. I do know that necessarily wrong. He also said that the one of the things recommended by the price may be as stated by the commission, committee and accepted by the Minister even though the commission acted on a was that the power of the commissioner wrong principle. should not be as great as some people thought All that has happened is that Mr. Justice it might be. I do not wish to take anything Matthews has clarified a point of law, and away from the ability of Mr. Doug Murray, the commission now would be quite entitled the present commissioner, who is a jolly to go back-and it probably will go back good one, but we do not know who will be -and apply for the same price increase. commissioner in the future. It might even be entitled to apply for more The Leader of the Opposition rather if any later figures justify an increase in amazed me by saying that the commissioner the tariff of the Brisbane City Council. It will have more power than the Premier. I will serve the council right if, having applied have already pointed out that the Minister to the court to have the 10 per cent increase accepted the recommendation of his com­ disallowed, it ends up by having to pay an mittee that the commissioner will have less 11 per cent increase. I am sure that the power than he previously had, as the electricity consumers in Brisbane will not Minister will have the power to overrule the thank Alderman Sleeman if that happens. commissioner. It just goes to show how I think it is fair to say that in the opera­ illogically the Leader of the Opposition tions of its Electricity Department the Bris­ speaks on many matters. He then went on bane City Council engages in too much to say that the Minister is supposed to politics. Every year we hear the same old jump every time the Premier tells him to story; the council objects to the increases do something and that the commissioner that are imposed on it by the State Electricity will have more power than the Premier. Commission. Obviously, these objections are That is typical of the woolly-headed thinking raised with a view to trying to gain some of the Leader of the Opposition. political capital for the Australian Labor Another thing that disturbed me a little Party. bit about the speech of the Leader of the I was interested to hear the ex-Leader Opposition was the way in which he made of the Opposition state that the A.L.P. is it. On the odd occasion on which I have happy with subsidising electricity charges time to watch television, nothing annoys imposed on western people. Later, however, me more than listening to Laurie Car­ he went right off the track and stated that michael. When he speaks, he has a definite such a subsidy should come from Consol­ edge on his voice that grates on people's idated Revenue. How silly can he get! What 438 Electricity Bill (14 SEPTEMBER 1976] Electricity Bill

he is saying, in effect, is that the western has been adduced to counter the Govern­ people should subsidise themselves. A good ment's arguments for the establishment of a deal of the money in Consolidated Revenue south-west board. comes from the people in the West in the first place, so if the subsidies are to come It is important that the commission has from Consolidated Revenue the western given an undertaking that none of the new people are merely subsidising themselves. authorities will be worse off than their present counterparts. That gives me confi­ The honourable member's comments are, dence about my own electorate in which the of course, typical of what we have come to S.E.A. distributes electricity. The area will expect from members of the Opposition. not be disadvantaged by going into the They will try anything at all to take a few south-west authority. bob off the people of the West rather than It is relevant to mention the problems of give them something. providing electricity to Queensland con­ If we accept the honourable member's sumers. Earlier in the debate reference was proposition that the people in the inner made to Brisbane's having to subsidise wes­ areas will be called upon to subsidise those tern areas. Although that statement may in the remainder of the State, we would have appear to be true, it is not. When the to agree that that is sound in principle. Fig­ situation is closely examined, it is obvious ures I quoted in my Address-in-Reply speech that if Brisbane wants to be part of a prove that Australian secondary industries, single generating authority in Queensland which are largely city-based, are subsidised and thereby reap the benefit of cheap elec­ to the extent of $2,299 million whereas tricity generated in Central Queensland, it primary industries are subsidised to the extent must be prepared to share any possible dis­ of only $488,000,000. The sooner we wake advantages caused by the eventual tariff up to the fact that it is necessary to help equalisation throughout Queensland. It the people in the bush to survive, the better would be totally unfair for people in the off this State as a whole will be. south-east corner to say, "We will accept the Some concern has been expressed in my advantages of cheap electricity generated in area about the creation of a south-west board. another area but we will not play our part I agree with the comment of the honourable in the equalisation of tariffs." If the people member for Bulimba that in the distribution of Brisbane had decided not to agree to the of electricity we need as much decentralised connection with Gladstone, I am sure that power as possible. within 5 to 10 years they would be paying much more for electricity than they will be Honourable members will be told that paying under this total scheme proposed by the membership of the seven electricity the Government. boards will be drawn largely from local authorities. Five members on each board The Opposition's argument that it is wrong will be nominated by the local authorities, to give bulk supply rates to industry appalls and one of those five members will be the me. It highlights the difference of opinion chairman; the other members will be the between Opposition and Government mem­ commissioner and two members appointed by bers in almost every debate in this Assembly. the Governor in Council. They will be mem­ Opposition members want to live in an ivory bers who will have the experience and qual­ tower and give consumers everything for ifications which the Governor in Council con­ nothing. But they do not want to help siders will be to the advantage of the board. industry. If industry gets cheap power it will provide jobs for workers. Finding jobs This is the major reason why the Govern­ for workers is one of the most serious prob­ ment has decided to go along with the crea­ lems facing the Western World. If providing tion of a south-west board. It realises the power to industry more cheaply than Opposi­ problems that will be created by bringing tion members would like us to do means that under the control of one authority all those we can develop the State and attract indus­ areas in South-west Queensland that are tries that might export to other States or now served by various electricity systems. countries, we are helping the workers of Because of these problems, in the initial Queensland. It is about time Opposition years people who are thoroughly conversant members learnt a little about economics and with the area should have the responsibility realised that giving hand-outs to people in of making decisions affecting that area. An wages is not always the best way to help area should not be controlled by a board them. This is especially so if hand-outs made up largely of people located east of the discourage the establishment of industries Great Dividing Range. that provide jobs for workers which help them pay a fair thing for services provided by It is important that we keep an open mind Governments. on this matter of the creation of a south­ west board. We have been told that the One other problem that worries me is Bill will lie on the table for a while. I the high capital cost of electricity distribu­ hope that if any evidence can be brought tion in isolated areas. The Government forward to show that the Government's has quite a generous subsidy scheme for opinion is not the correct one, it will bend providing help in such distribution, but I and do away with the proposed south-west do think that it needs to be revised. There board. At this stage I do not think anything are ways that that money could be used Electricity Bill [14 SEPTEMBER 1976] Electricity Bill 439

to provide cheaper rural extension if the has done in the centralisation of control in various distributing boards were given more various spheres of Government and indus­ autonomy on the use of the Government trial activity here in Brisbane. subsidy. I do not disagree-nor do I think any Another problem in the electricity industry honourable member would-with the over­ is that, while it is cheaper to have great all State grid or, rather, the coastal grid. big powerhouses, it is probably at times a I think that the Minister mentioned the area little foolish to go overboard in centralising from Cooktown to Murwillumbah. Elect­ electricity generation. Perhaps we should ricity is a basic need, as we in North Queens­ have some smaller powerhouses built in the land found out to our discomfort quite country in an endeavour to prevent Queens­ recently. Once we become used to it, it is landers from being such easy prey to indus­ something on which we all rely in our trial blackmail. People in unions must everyday work and needs. realise that they have a responsibility to One of the alternatives mentioned tonight their fellow unionists. The unions employ to the Government proposal on electricity some quite good industrial advocates and, tariffs was a subsidy scheme. I draw the if they cannot win their point in the Industrial Committee's attention to the fact, as I did Commission, the situation should be very, in the Budget debate last year, that a subsidy very serious before they consider strike action scheme is already in existence in certain areas. and put their mates out of a job. The Budget allocation for the 1975-76 year was, I think, $275,000. I think it would be As a result of the irresponsible strikes agreed that the amount was a reasonable called by our unions, Australia is fast losing one. It was to be used to subsidise electric­ its reputation as a reliable exporter. I realise ity costs in the western areas of Queensland that some strikes are prompted by the actions and the western boards, which are relatively of management. In those cases, I would smaller consumers than the coastal boards. side with the unions. However, the vast majority of strikes today are caused by How far are we going in the central­ Left-wing militants, who have no interest isation of control? I am against centralised in Queensland other than to promote the control in all of its forms and purposes. ideology of Laurie Carmichael and his friends. Under the Bill we are to have centralised control of electricity tariff. In the future The employees in the electricity industry will we have centralised control of other are given quite a lot of protection under the important services to the people such as Bill. No employee will be forced to change water supply? It is within the memory of his classification. There is a guarantee that he will at least keep his present classification. everv honourable member that almost all However, he has the advantage of being able electrical undertakings in Queensland other to move from one electric authority or the than the Southern Electric Authority were commission to another authority without any operated by local authorities and those under­ loss of continuous employment rights. There takings were gradually amalgamated into local will be a common superannuation scheme boards and now they are to become part of for the whole industry, which will be com­ this bigger complex system. Over a period pulsory for new appointees and to which of years there has been a gradual whittling existing employees may contribute if they away of local control. so desire. The superannuation scheme will What was not pointed out clearly by the be administered by a board, on which there Minister in his introduction is what will will be employer and employee representation. happen if the next power station is to be Another important change under the Bill built, Mr. Gunn, at Tarong in your elector­ relates to contractors. The closed-shop prin­ ate, or even at Millmerran. They are the ciple will be abolished. It is important that two alternatives that have been suggested. any man who has been properly trained to Either power station would be much closer work in the electrical field should be able to major sources of supply than others. to practise his profession and become a Perhaps another major power station could contractor, provided he pays the prescribed be built on the Ipswich coal-fields, as the fee, which I understand will be high enough. honourable member for Wolston has so often advocated. (Time expired.) I suppose it could be said that this Bill Mr. CASEY (Mackay) (8.39 p.m.): We is one of the nearest things to socialisation have before the Committee today a very ever introduced by a Tory Government. comprehensive Bill. As the Minister him­ There is no question of that if the scheme self said, it covers five Acts relating to elec­ is implemented in the way that has been tricity. Much of the comment in the debate indicated. I do not disagree entirely with to date has centred around the aspect of that because I believe that essential services Brisbane and its power costs. I suppose that, should be handled in this way. Already we when it comes to that, I would be regarded have socialisation of water supplies. I as one of the biggest Brisbane hashers in instance that, as I did earlier. There is no the Chamber. At various times I have been choice; people living in a reticulated area critical, on behalf of country people, of have the one water supply authority and some of the things that this Government must hook onto it. That is all there is to it. 440 Electricity Bill (14 SEPTEMBER 1976] Electricity Bill

There are many other deeper problems much electricity as the major draglines of in relation to this matter. It is as well to mining companies on the mine-fields, and remember that equalisation of tariffs has most of that power comes from the northern already been in vogue in the northern elect­ grid system. With the extension of mining, ricity boards for many years. The Cairns this power will have to be drawn from the Regional Electricity Board, the Townsville Gladstone Power Station as well. Regional Electricity Board and the Mackay Another item of interest is the bulk rate Regional Electricity Board have had equal­ charged at that time. There has been much ised tariffs for a considerable number of talk tonight about bulk rates to various sup­ years. I believe that this was probably to ply authorities. The bulk rate from the the detriment of people who lived in the State Electricity Commission to the Southern Cairns Regional Electricity Board area init­ Electric Authority and the Brisbane City ially because when the hydro authority-- Council is almost twice the bulk rate charged Mr. Jones interjected. by the Northern Electric Authority to the other boards in the North Queensland area. Mr. Moore: You just destroyed the only In fairness I should say that this is possibly point he had to make. because from that point on distribution costs in that area are much higher than they Mr. CASEY: He is another good North are in the South. If the Minister's scheme Queenslander and will be here following the or any other is proceeded with, it will be next election. The honourable member for only natural that the major consumers in the Windsor will be plebiscited out of his seat south-east corner of the State will have to by his Liberal colleagues, who have had help carry some of those distribution costs. about enough of him. The Minister pointed out some of the advant­ Mr. Camm: He is in a political party; you ages of distribution costs on a residential are not in any political party. basis, but I feel the matter goes a little further than that. Mr. CASEY: Is the Minister upset about In investigating tariffs I found an inter­ it? esting comparison between those of Queens­ Mr. Camm: No. You are not in any land and New South Wales. In the Short­ political pal'ty. land-Newcastle area, which contains, of course, the major generating authorities in Mr. CASEY: And isn't the Minister upset New South Wales on the Newcastle coal­ about it? If I had still been in the party fields and areas just to the south, the local in 1972, the Minister would not have been supply domestic tariff was approximately here. He knows that, too. half the domestic tariffs in Sydney. The situation in New South Wales was therefore Supplies of hydroelectricity from Tully the opposite of that in Queensland. Falls and the Barron River meant lower costs initially in the Cairns Regional Elect­ A point that the Minister did not make ricity Board area. The Collinsville station sufficiently clear in his introductory speech coming on stream as a station of greater was how the new equalisation rate will be capacity in the North Queensland area has brought about. That is an aspect that will been to the advantage of boards in the be most interesting to consider. It will have southern area. It has helped further to some fairly far-reaching effects in some equalise the tariff structure in the northern areas of the State. I sympathise with the area. point Brisbane members raised concerning increased costs; but then, of course, I doubt Just 12 months ago I made a comparison very much that they sympathised with us of electricity costs over the length and last year when rail freight tariffs went up breadth of the State. I shall not cite the by 40 per cent affecting mainly the country actual figures because since that time there areas of Queensland. have been a couple of increases in several areas. None the less, it is interesting to The initial report that was brought out look at percentage ratios. At that time on the electric supply authority did in fact the three northern boards-namely, Cairns, scrub many of the local boards. I remem­ Townsville and Mackay-had tariff rates ber that at the time, as the honourable 30 per cent to 50 per cent higher than those member for Carnarvon has pointed out, his of the Southern Electric Authority and the father (Hon. H. A. McKechnie) was the Brisbane City Council. That illustrates the Minister and a lot of protests were made to cost burden carried by the people of North him. He was one of the first to agree that Queensland for a considerable number of some form of local control should be re­ years. The figures were in the main related introduced. I agree with local control of to domestic tariffs, tariffs for public bodies, boards as much as possible, but unfortun­ and tariffs for domestic air-conditioning and ately many electricity boards in Queensland refrigeration, which are more essential in are very weak indeed. They do not seem to the North than in South-east Queensland. be able to exert a great deal of control and Because of various measures introduced at seem to be very much under the thumb of that time, industrial tariffs were only 25 the State Electricity Commission. They are per cent higher. I think I am safe in saying not game to move on any major policy that no industrial user anywhere in the decisions within their areas or decisions south-east corner of the State would use as which affect their areas unless they get the Eleclricity Bill (14 SEPTEMBER 1976] Electricity Bill 441 approval and sanction of the State Electricity to be left as an imposition and a burden on Commission. It would appear that the re­ rural consumers, then we have a problem. presentative of the State Electricity Commis­ I have seen many cases of hardship caused sion on each of these boards has a type of by these guarantees, not just to people on power of veto, because it seems that the farms but to others who live in our little local authority members go along with what­ rural townships. I know of one case of a ever he says. Of course, if they do not, then couple of pensioners living in a small rural in some respects the State Electricity Com­ township. Their house was condemned by mission can exert a pressure over local the local authority and so it was demolished. boards through their loan allocation pro­ The people who owned the land then vir­ grammes. However, the good thing about tually could not get rid of it. Nobody would them is that at least they do-- buy it because the pensioners still had to pay an electricity guarantee for supply to a Mr. Camm: What a terrible thing to say house that was no longer there. It had been about representatives of local authorities. completely demolished. It was a severe hard­ Mr. CASEY: Well, of course, they are ship for this pensioner couple to continue to representatives of local authorities. If the pay this impost in addition to the electricity Minister likes, I could go into a rather in­ charges they had to meet for the house into volved story about local authority repre­ which they had shifted. So guarantees can sentatives on regional electricity boards impose a big burden on a considerable num­ which affected 1Jhe Minister who is sitting ber of people, and I should like to know alongside him at the present time. It is an what is going to happen in cases such as interesting story but it takes a long time to those to which I have referred. tell and I think most members of the Com­ When dealing with centralised control, the mittee are fairly familiar with it. Minister made some mention of loan borrow­ An Honourable Member interjected. ings. Again, members will have to wait till they see the Bill or till they hear comments Mr. CASEY: It was at the time when the from the Minister to find out how loan dis­ Minister was behind a move to depose the tributions will be made in Queensland in Premier, unfortunately for the Minister. future. Will the local boards still operate on the same basis as they have done up to Mr. CAMM: I rise to a point of order. date? As pointed out by the Leader of the Never at any time in my political career was Opposition, funds raised in particular areas I behind any move to depose the Premier, can now be used there, and that has been and it ill behoves a man with the honourable a saving grace in some areas in obtaining member's commercial and business record the loan borrowings required for electricity in the Mackay district to start casting slurs reticulation. on anyone in this Committee. The Minister made another point that I Mr. CASEY: Is it a point of order or could not fully understand. I am led to isn't it? understand that there is to be a scrapping of the present system under which inspectors The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr. employed by the boards inspect the work of Gunn): Order! electrical contractors. Mr. Camm: And I will bring in and table Mr. Jones: Installation inspectors. all of his records. Mr. CASEY: Installation inspectors. The Mr. CASEY: Well, Mr. Gunn, the Minis­ Minister did say that Queensland has a ter is a little upset, but when he is ready I magnificent safety record in the field of have a bucketful for him at any time he so installations and that there are no known desires about quite a number of matters and deaths-perhaps he said no known accidents I feel quite sure he will come out the loser. -as wiring has been properly installed by We come again to the problem of local qualified electrical contractors. Without representation. Certainly selections are attempting to cast a slur on electricians, I made from local authorities and those re­ should like to add that it is probably because presentatives are appointed to ~he boards. their work is checked and inspected. That But some boards seem to bog down on some could very well be the reason this State has issues, and there is one in particular on such a magnificent safety record. We cannot which I would like to hear the Minister afford to take risks with electricity, Mr. reply, especially as he appears to want to Gunn, and if a double check is made to chip in with so many comments tonight. ensure that installations are safe, I am all In his introductory speech the Minister for it. did not mention the word "guarantees" and If the Government wishes to implement these, of course, are one of the biggest its policy of doing away with electrical blights on rural consumers in the State. What inspectors, I hope that some inspectors will is going to happen to the guarantees? That still be available to members of the public is what I would like to know. If we are who are concerned about electricity in their to have a system of equalisation throughout homes and who wish to have regular checks the State that will do away with those guar­ of electrical appliances and wiring. Electrical antees, I am all for it, but if they are going faults are the cause of a great many fires 442 Electricity Bill [14 SEPTEMBER 1976] Electricity Bill throughout the State, and I do not believe workers. If Opposition members believe that the Government should stint in any that the workers of Queensland should sub­ way when safety in the electrical industry sidise the electricity charges payable by those is involved. I am aware that in some people who do not want to work, they stand instances a fee is paid to electrical inspectors on their own. Yet that is the case put who check construction work. In my forward tonight by the honourable member opinion, that should be retained, because I for Bulimba. believe these inspectors have contributed I believe there is a sound reason why we greatly to Queensland's excellent safety should have an equalisation of tariffs through­ record. out the State. In the long term equalisation As I said in my opening remarks, the Bill will benefit the people of Brisbane because seems to be very comprehensive. I shall they will be connected to power produced study its contents and see what flows from in Central Queensland. In the long term it before deciding whether or not I will it will be much cheaper to produce electricity support it. in Central Queensland than in West Moreton. The cost of power from the West Moreton Mr. MILLER (Ithaca) (8.59 p.m.): The fields will be prohibitive. On every occasion Government Whip has indicated to me that that an increase in wages occurs the gap so many Government members wish to speak between the cost of coal produced on the that he wants me to keep my speech as short West Moreton field and coal produced in as possible, and I agree to do that. How­ the open-cut mines in Central Queensland ever, I have been amazed by the few speak­ widens. As I say, in the long term the ers from the Opposition benches. Honour­ costs of coal produced on the West Moreton able members opposite either are not interes­ fields will be so prohibitive that the Brisbane ted or are in a cleft stiok and do not wish to City Council will not be able to afford to inform their constituents how they really use it. By this Bill the Government is sub­ feel on this issue. I merely make the point sidising the costs of West Moreton coal from that, although the Leader of the Opposition the savings effected in the supply of power and the honourable member for Bulimba from Central Queensland. have made contributions to the debate, there has been no other speaker from the Opposi­ I would like the Minister in his reply to tion benches. tell us what the department considers will be the projected cost of coal from the West Mr. Marginson: There are more coming. Moreton fields over the next 10 to 20 years. I also want to know the projected cost of Mr. MILLER: I am very pleased to hear coal from Central Queensland over the that. Usually the Opposition wishes to have next 10 to 20 years. I want to know the speaker for speaker in a debate, but that cost of maintaining the grid from Central certainly has not been the case this evening. Queensland to Brisbane. All of these costs Government members have sat back and have to be considered in the long term watched with interest the looks on the faces and in determining whether or not power of honourable members opposite. should come to Brisbane from Central I thank the Minister for stating publicly Queensland. I firmly believe that it will be that the Bill will lie on the table and that cheaper to get coal from Central Queensland members of the public will be given an than from Moreton. However, so that I opportunity to consider it in detail. can convince my electors (and so that the From the remarks of the Leader of the people of Brisbane can see it for themselves), Opposition and the honourable member for I want the Minister to put in "Hansard" for Bulimba and from the contents of a letter all time the cost of coal from Moreton and that I have before me from the Lord Mayor Central Queensland at the present time and of Brisbane, it appears that the Government, the projected costs for the next 10 to 20 years. the Opposition and the Brisbane City Council The figures quoted by the honourable mem­ are in agreement on one thing, that is, the ber for Clayfield came, I understand, from the need to equalise costs of power supply in Brisbane City Council. They show that in Queensland. The only area of difference 1972 the cost of power in Brisbane was between the Government, the Opposition and cheaper than in Sydney or Melbourne. In the Brisbane City Council is the means by 1976 the cost of power in Brisbane is still which this should be achieved. cheaper than in Sydney or Melbourne. The I am totally opposed to the idea put figures quoted by the honourable member forward by the honourable member for for Clayfield revealed that Brisbane has Bulimba that the way to equalise tariffs fared very well compared with the capitals throughout the State is to assess them on of the other two eastern States. the amount of wages received. Whilst I A Government Member: Not in terms of agree that there should be an equalisation price increases. of tariffs, I hope we never get to the stage where tariffs will be based on the amount Mr. MILLER: I am not talking about of money we earn. The workers are already price increases but about the cost per 790 kW subsidising the bludgers to too great an hours a quarter. I point out for the record extent. I am not prepared to allow this to that Brisbane people are paying $38.86 per continue. I will not see those people who 790 kW hours a quarter compared with $41.71 are not prepared to work subsidised by the in Sydney and $49.15 in Melbourne. Those Electricity Bill [14 SEPTEMBER 1976] Electricity Bill 443 figures show that the price of electricity is writing into the statutes the establishment of lower in Brisbane than in Sydney and the regional electricity boards. Prior to Melbourne. that date electricity was generated and sold This afternoon the honourable member for in various areas, usually by the local auth­ Bulimba admitted that the Brisbane City orities. In some cases the electricity was Council is making a profit while subsidising generated and sold by a private company. other areas of Brisbane City Council activity It was considered by the Labor Government through the Electricity Department. I am of the day-and there was no opposition from amazed that the S.E.A. can sell power to Labor members-that the big centres such as the Brisbane City Council so competitively Brisbane, Rockhampton, Toowoomba, Towns­ that the Brisbane City Council can undercut ville, Cairns and other places should play Sydney and Melbourne and make an estimated their financial part in assisting to develop profit of $9,000,000 from Brisbane electricity the back country. users. That is the figure being bandied Let us look at the thing frankly and around Brisbane by people who know the clearly. Without the back country there facts. Although the people of Brisbane are would be no cities and towns in Queens­ subsidising other areas controlled by the land. Without the back country behind Brisbane City Council, the cost of electricity Cairns, Cairns would be a dirty little hole on to them is cheaper than that paid in Sydney the Trinity Inlet. Without its back country, and Melbourne. Townsvi!le would be a succession of man­ How can that happen? Is the S.E.A. grove swamps on the mouth of Ross River so modern and efficient that it can sell and Ross Creek. Only the back country-the electricity to the Brisbane City Council at people of the back country; the salt of the a very low cost? Are the electricity under­ earth-keeps those towns and cities going. takings in other States so inadequate that When the Townsville Regional Electricity they cannot produce electricity at a reason­ Board was set up, I was on the Townsville able cost? We must consider these questions City Council. When I examined the propo­ and the Minister has decided to give us sition put forward by Mr. Cochran, who was an opportunity to decide what is in the then the Chairman of the State Electricity best interests of the people of Queensland Commission, I said-and it is on record in before we vote on the issue. the Townsville City Council and in the Press As I said, in the long term, we will of the day-that the formation of the Towns­ benefit. I am very concerned about the ville Regional Electricity Board was the attitude displayed by some honourable mem­ blackest financial day in the history of bers. When we are considering matters that Townsville. And so it was! affect our electors we are very parochial. Incidentally, later on a member of the When we are looking at matters such as Townsville Regional Electricity Board, who this we should be more far-sighted than realised how little power the board had, normal. The people of Brisbane enjoy certain described Mr. Cochran, not as the commis­ rail freights and charges which are sub­ sioner, but as the commissar. I have heard sidised by country areas through the haulage that appellation applied to our present com­ of export coal and other minerals. Country missioner, and, without being derogatory or people do not complain about that sort derisory of that estimable gentleman, I would of subsidy. I would hope that as a Govern­ say that he is commissar of the electricity ment and as a Parliament we would look undertaking in Queensland. at what is best for the whole of Queensland, and in the long term I believe that Brisbane We in Townsville had a wonderful elec­ as well as the rest of Queensland will benefit tricity authority. We were making tremen­ from this Bill. dous profits. Anybody who went along, even today, and looked at some of the balance Mr. AIKENS (Townsville South) (9.10 sheets of the Townsville City Council Elec­ p.m.): I do not know what all the fuss is tric Authority would marvel at the astound­ about in this debate, because the Bill merely ing prosperity of it. I can remember that we writes onto the Statute Book something that were selling electricity at about threepence a has been in operation in Queensland for very unit. In addition to that, we were giving many years: the concentration of power in the 33t per cent rebate to anyone who paid his generation, distribution and sale of electricity bill within a month. It was a wonderful in the hands of one body-or, should I say, boon for the people of Townsville. one man-down here in Brisbane. I see Outside Townsville, of course, where there nothing wrong with that. was no electricity, or very little electricity It has been said-and I suppose we can -in places like Ingham and, shall we say, truthfully repeat-that this so-called Tory backward places like Ayr, which had a Government is moving step by step towards private electric authority-the people were socia!isation in our time. We have that paying through the nose. People living control over the whole of the State in the away from the railway line-away from the railway system. We have it in various other townships and the villages and the hamlets fields in Queensland. Actually, the whole -were Jiving as they were when they first thing was started many years ago-and I came out to this country. They were living was in Parliament at the time-when the with hurricane lamps, groping around in the late E. M. Hanlon brought down a Bill dark, as we were groping around in the 444 Electricity Bill [14 SEPTEMBER 1976] Electricity Bill

dark up in the North recently, thanks to the and batten on, the representatives of Bris­ activities of the Left-wingers and the Commas bane, in the main, do not care how the in Colli:risville. people in the back country get on. So we decided-we had some pressure put Let us be frank about it. Brisbane has on us, but we realised that it was in the been a parasitical growth on the country interests of Townsville, in the long run-to areas of Queensland ever since it was estab­ form the Townsville Regional Electricity lished, and it is becoming a larger parasitical Board. If I may use the vulgar vernacular, growth every day. If I may use a medical we paid through the nose for it; do not make term, it is more or less a malignant cancer any mistake about that. Within a few months sucking away the substance of the people we realised how much the formation of the of the country areas. If anyone representing Townsvil!e Regional Electricity Board would Brisbane or any person in Brisbane objects cost the people of Townsville-and it cost to those people getting something back in them plenty, believe me. We did not mind the form of electricity concessions and elec­ because we were doing something for Queens­ tricity supply, they are indeed one-eyed. landers who were entitled to just as much consideration as we were and to the same I have heard remarks passed today by amenities and facilities of civilisation. Con­ members representing Brisbane electorates sequently we were happy to extend the lines that Brisbane is going to give something to of the Townsville Regional Electricity Board the country areas. They are like the bloke up the coast, out into the back country and who knocks you down, takes your wallet out down the coast. That is all that this Bill of your pocket, takes $10 out of it, and then proposes to do in the State. gives you $1 back. That is all that Brisbane is doing. It is robbing the country people When Ned Hanlon was in the Govern­ and is fattening and battening on them. It ment, he set up the regional electricity boards. is bleeding them white and sucking them Again we had no question, quibble, criticism dry. Now we are told by the representatives or opposition from Labor members of Parlia­ of some Brisbane electorates that, under this ment. The Regional Electricity Board Act, Bill, Brisbane is going to give something which was put through this Parliament by to the country people. As far as I am con­ Ned Hanlon and voted for by the Labor cerned, because Brisbane is so far behind, members, provided that all of the power­ it will never be able to give enough to bal­ for instance in the appointment of staff­ ance the ledger. was placed in the hands of one man, the manager. If I remember rightly, I moved Some amazing things happened when the an amendment to let the electricity board regional electricity boards were set up because make all appointments except that of the we had a Labor Government in power. I secretary, and Ned Hanlon said, "Not on was a member of the Townsville City Council your life. I don't want any buck-passing. and was chairman of the Townsville City I do not want a proposition passed from Council electric light committee. We were this board to that board or from this member the first authority that decided to sell electric to that member. I want one member respons­ stoves to the people of Townsville. We found ible for the control of electricity boards and that there was a close-knit organisation­ the appointment of staff and I want to put the electrical retailers and the electrical whole­ my finger on him if he does the wrong salers-that would not give us the electric thing." This is what has been happening stoves to sell unless we sold them at the in Queensland for some years. One man same price and on the same terms as they has been responsible for most of these things did. Luckily we were able to get in touch and he is the Commissioner for Electricity with a firm that had just started in Adelaide. Supply. As far as I can see, he has done ''Moffatt" was the name of the stove they a reasonably good job. sold but I cannot recall for the moment the name of the firm. We entered into a con­ It is amazing that we hear the Labor Party tract with that firm. We bought the stoves members opposing the very things that Labor direct. We brought them to Townsville in steadfastly and vigorously supported when it their cases, unpacked and tested them, then was in Government. I suppose that that put them on the floor and sold them. We is axiomatic of all Governments and all sold I think, 500 electric stoves in the first political parties. But it stands out like a yea;, and at about half the price the electrical boil on a blonde with the A.L.P. in this retailers were charging for them. The people Chamber. were so grateful to us that they supported us strongly at the next election. Naturally There has been some moaning and whining we fell out with the electrical retailers and -and there always will be-from the people with many people who were making money of Brisbane and the representatives of Bris­ out of the consumers of electricity; but we bane, who have no idea how the people in did our job for the people, and they were the back country live. Not only have they the ones we represented. no idea how they live but they do not damned well care how they live. As long as they When the T.R.E.B. took over, they were slave and toil out in the burning West or not prepared to go along nice and quietly. in the rain-soaked jungles of the North and They were not prepared to take the stoves earn the money for Brisbane people to fatten off the ships, test them and sell them direct Electricity Bill (14 SEPTEMBER 1976] Electricity Bill 445 to customers. They had to set up an elec­ After a while, as is only natural, some trical appliance sales department with car­ of those appliances would go on the "blink." pets, salesmen and all that sort of thing­ The purchasers would say to T.R.E.B., "My all the costs, expenses, flim-flam and finan­ stove or toaster is on the 'blink'." They would cial malarkey that goes with merchandising be told, "Bring it in and we'll have a look at today. They are now not selling electrical it; but don't forget to keep paying your in­ appliances any cheaper than they are sold sta:lments every month." So they kept paying by the ordinary electrical retailers. That, as their instalments, the appliances were not I have said, is a matter for the Government repaired and new ones were not provided for to stick their teeth into. I do not expect the them. This meant that each month they paid Government to do that, of course, because instalments on appliances they did not have they would be right on the side of the and which did not work. If they went in and retailers. said, "I'm not going to pay instalments on Here is another amazing thing. When the an appliance I haven't got and that doesn't Labor Party was in power one of the first work", do you know what the T.R.E.B. did? things it did was decide to erect an extra They cut off the supply of power to those power station in Townsville. There it is homes, even though the electricity today, belching its smoke and fumes over accounts were paid to date. I brought the city because of the power strike. It has this matter up here a dozen times and I six chimneys that are spewing their filth all was told, "That's the way to make them over Townsville, particularly Railway Estate, pay. If they do not pay the monthly South Townsville and some city areas. This instalments on their electrical appli­ is happening because the big moguls of the ances, cut off the light and power to their Labor Party decided to put that power station homes." They did it to an old pensioner in the worst possible place. They put it woman. The valve on her electric stove was right in South Townsville, which means that all right, but when the board sent a couple the prevailing winds blow its soot all over of boys out there to look at it they said, the city. "Oh, this valve has been in here a long time. We'll put a new one in." They broke it off When I objected to that location I was and put in a new one. It cost only about told, "We have to have the power station nine bob but the old lady said, "I'm not there because we must have salt water for going to pay for a valve you broke just the condensers." I said, "Where are you because you thought it was old." They said, going to get salt water from?" They said, "You are out." They cut off the electric "Over there in the bay." I said, "You're light and power to her home. That is A.L.P. nuts! The tide goes out. How are you control of the electricity authorities! going to get water for the condensers when the tide goes out?" And, sure enough, that I made appeals in this Assembly and on was the problem. Let honourable members the public platform. Many of the things come to Townsville and I will show them. I said were slanderous and defamatory, but When the power station was built in that that does not matter; they were true. How­ position, it was found that the tide actually ever, they did nothing about it and it was did go out and there was no water for the not until this Government was elected to condensers. It was therefore necessary to power (and it is all there in "Hansard"} go through hard rock and right across the that the late Ernie Evans became Minister main road to Ross Creek and build a pump­ in charge of electricity and remembered all ing sta:tion in Ross Creek. From there water the statements I made. is pumped the best part of a mile to the power station for condensation and cooling One of the first things he did about the purposes. sale of electrical appliances on time payment, Mr. Elliott: That sounds fairly typical of and I hope this Government never undoes it, the Labor Party. was to put every electrical authority and every regional electricity board (I suppose Mr. AIKENS: I suppose someone got a this applies to the Southern Electric Author­ cut out of it because we know what was in ity and the Brisbane City Council, although the mind of the A.L.P. in those days. now that the council is under the control of the Labor Party I doubt that it would) on But worse than that went on. Time and exactly the same basis as regards repossession time again I brought this matter up as any other person who sells an electrical in this Chamber. In fact, I have been belted appliance on time payment. They have out three times for bringing it up. The their remedy at law. If the person does T.R.E.B. decided to sell stoves and electrical not pay the instalments, the appliance can appliances on time payment. Naturally be confiscated or repossessed or legal action quite a lot of poor people could not afford can be taken, but they cannot go out and to pay cash for such items. They, of course, cut off all the electric light and power to a were not all A.L.P. men in all the rackets home just because a person owes, say, 28c, and rorts, so they would buy electrical the monthly instalment on a cigarette lighter appliances on time payment. Many of them or something like that. were widows, pensioners and other battlers and they would buy anything from a toaster That is the sort of thing that went on to a hot water system. and I challenge any A.L.P. man to deny 446 Electricity Bill [14 SEPTEMBER 1976] Electricity Bill it. Yet these are the people who are now Mr. LAMONT (South Brisbane) (9.30 kicking up a fuss about the introduction of p.m.): The proposed Bill now under discus­ this Bill. Let us be honest about it. sion has two objects, and it is with the first of these-the reorganisation of the elec­ There are quite a lot of things associated tricity supply industry in this State-that I with centralist control that I do not like. am concerned. There are too many bureaucrats, too many The Minister has told the Committee that fellows in silk shirts walking around with all this is just an evolutionary step; but I am sorts of pencils in their pockets doing nothing not certain that I can accept that the divest­ but watch a few men work, three or four ing of the Brisbane City Council and eight men driving a motor-car because the man other local authorities of their electricity who drives the motor-car cannot do any undertakings at one blow is in fact evolu­ work and the man who does any work cannot tionary. It may be, of course, that the drive the motor-car, and so on. There is too proposal is warranted and needed. However, much of that inefficiency, too much of that I have many questions I should like to see overlapping. I do not suppose the Govern­ cleared up before I am convinced that this ment can do anything about it, because the is so. moment it did, it would have a strike on It has been suggested around this Parlia­ its hands. But it has to happen sooner or ment of late that there are chiefs and there later, when we have five and six men doing are Indians, and that the chiefs lead and the work that could and should be done by the Indians must follow. Well, some of us two or three-and I have never been a Indians have reservations. nigger driver. The Minister spoke about problems of Unless we get efficiency in the regional supply. He told the Committee that one electricity offices and in all the institutions single board is going to take over the that will be set up under this Bill, then responsibility that is now looked after by this Bill is going to fall down. It will be eight authorities. I have one general reser­ vation relative to boards, and that is that crippled and crushed and overwhelmed by they are directly responsible to Ministers its own weight. and not to Parliament, councils or shire committees; that is to say-representatives We have this trade union control. We of the people. I wonder whether in fact saw an example of it up in North Queens­ a large board is as efficient or as responsive land quite recently, people stumbling round to the needs of the people as are the councils in the dark striking matches for a hurricane and committees. lamp. I went into the office of a member of Parliament in Flinders Street in Towns­ The Minister said that he is looking after ville and there were two candles burning on the needs and rights of employees, and I the table. We were blacked out all day and think that is fine; it is important. But the boys at Collinsville, the 59 of them, were that, of course, is on the assumption that laughing their heads off because they knew the entire proposal is for the good of the they had the industrial muscle to put the people. people of North Queensland to all the Honourable members are told also that inconvenience and all the distress that they there will be machinery provisions to ensure could think of. We have an A.L.P. council that a local authority is not put to an in Townsville controlled by Percy Tucker. unwarranted expense during the vesting Of course, the Deputy Mayor is the bearded period. I should like to have details of lady, Alderman Reynolds, supported by that aspect spelt out more clearly. Sheila Keeffe, Joan Benson, and others, and A third minor reservation that I have, never once with all their meetings did they before getting on to my main objection, is raise their voice in protest against what was the red herring-and I call it a red herring­ happening. I am prepared to bet that the that equalisation will take place over 15 Minister for Mines and Energy will tell the years at 1 per cent a year. Frankly, I Committee that never once did he get am not interested in whether equalisation any representation from the Townsville City comes in at 1 per cent a year over 15 years Council about the electricity strike. I know or 15 per cent all at once. To me, the very well he did not; they would not be fact that someone says, "We are going to game to open their mouths. But that is the make a change, but we are going to bring position as it is today. it in gradually." is of no interest, if the The worst industrial trouble we face-and change itself is not in fact in the best interests it does occur in electricity powerhouses-is of the people. It is like saying, "We the demarcation dispute. I have said that are going to poison him. But don't worry before, and I will say it again, and until mem­ about it; it is going to be done cup by bers of Parliament get enough guts to stand cup of tea over 15 years." I want to be up with me and say it with me we will certain that it is not poison before I accept face these demarcation disputes well into the one drop of it. future. They were known in the Railway The Committee has been told by the Department as body-snatching. Minister that Brisbane gets it's electricity supply cheaply because of the heavy con­ (Time expired.) centration of consumption in the Brisbane Electricity Bill (14 SEPTEMBER 1976] Electricity Bill 447 area. I believe that the words he used more efficient and lower unit cost operation. w~re. to the effect that not many streets The load density for 1 sq. mile of city area ~Ithm a few miles of the centre of the in Sydney is the same as that for the whole City have vacant allotments and there is of the Brisbane City Council distribution much multi-unit development. Because of area. I would like to know whether the that, for some reason or other he seemed claims of some members in relation to a to think that Brisbane peopl~ get some comparison between costs to Brisbane and advantage that. country people do not get. Sydney consumers are true. Inde~d, he smd that he is amazed that We ~re told ~hat under the proposed sys­ Ipswich people do not march on Brisbane tem Bnsbane will be better off in the long about the unfair price advantage that Bris­ run. I would ask: how are we going to be ban.e people enjoy. Frankly, that is like better off? No-one seems to be able to tell saymg that the people of Ipswich, Too­ metropolitan consumers how Brisbane will woomba or Mackay should be marching be better off or why Brisbane will be better on Brisbane because it has the advantage off. of freeways. That is not an argument that stands up. Of course there are advan­ Mr. Hartwig: Power generation will be tage~ when people cluster together in high cheaper. density. There are other advantages, of course, for people who live in the country. Mr. LAMONT: That may be so. Do we ask country people to subsidise Bris­ Mr. Hartwig: It will be. bane because their air here is fouler than the air in the country? That argument Mr. LAMONT: I would like to see figures is simply not relevant. that prove this. Interested parties have given The Minister seemed to imply that Bris­ me figures that tend to show that the Bill bane electricity users receive a disproportion­ will not do what the Minister claims it will ate benefit from electricity rates as a result do in the long run. If the Minister wants of ~ highly efficient operation at Gladstone. metropolitan members to believe him and I thmk one could put it the other way round if the honourable member for Callide ~ants and say that in fact, because of the con­ me to believe his interjection-and I hope centrat!on of industry and population in I can, because as we all know he is an the Bns~ane metropolitan area, there is an honourable man, as Brutus said of another opportumty for an efficient or low unit cost politician some time ago-I want figures electricity distribution, and it is this which from these gentlemen to match those given faculitates efficiency at Gladstone. That is the to me by other persons who are concerned other side of the coin. for the Brisbane consumers. It has been said in this debate that Bris­ I have been told that the people of Bris­ bane people have the advantage of cheaper bane are paying the Southern Electric elect~icity than Sydney and Melbourne, and Authority through the Brisbane City Council not JUSt country areas of Queensland I $10,000,000 above the actual cost. If that think that comes closer to the root of the is so the metropolitan area is already sub­ objections that are raised by metropolitan sidising country consumption. I am also members. _I have been told, for example, t?ld-1 hope it is not true; I would certainly that the Bnsbane City Council's distribution like to see the figures-that if Brisbane does result in a lower unit cost than in people could purchase electricity from the say, Sydney. I have been given certai~ Electricity Commission of New South figures, and I will throw them in to try to Wales at the same price as that paid by ascertain whether they are correct. I hope people in Broken Hill and Coffs Harbour, that the Minister will tell me whether or we would be able to get it for $20,000,000 not they are. per annum less. That is an interesting figure, and I hope that it, too, is untrue. I have been told that 68 per cent of the A graph given to me by one of the Lib­ Bri~bane C!ty Council selling price is paid to Its supplier, the Southern Electric Author­ ~ral alde~men shows that the streamlining !tY of Queensland, whereas by comparison m the Bnsbane City Council electricity sup­ m Sydney only 55 per cent is paid to the ply is so sophisticated that during peak hours Electricity Commission of New South Wales. the actual demand in the Brisbane city area I am told that the Brisbane City Council compared with that in the entire region is pays 2.14c per unit out of its selling price something like 8 per cent lower than at normal times. It would seem that because of 3.1;: per unit ~68 per cent), to the Southern Electnc AJfthonty of Queensland, leaving the Brisbane City Council is responsible to 96c per. umt for capital costs, capital works 21 aldermen, who are responsible to their and mamtenance. By comparison, the Syd­ electors-which a board will never be-Mr. ney counterpart pays 1.7c per unit of its Melloy of the Brisbane City Council and selling pri<:e. of 3c per. unit (55 per cent), to his staff have in fact effected a more efficient the Electnc1ty Commission of New South mode of supply than the authority can effect. Wales, leaving 1.3c per unit for capital I would like to know whether that is true. works, maintenance and so forth. I further Another graph that I have before me point out that the load density in Sydney is indicates the generating capacity of the much more concentrated than it is in Bris­ Southern Electric Authority of Queensland bane and therefore it has a potential for from 1964 to a projected figure in 1982. It 448 Electricity Bill [14 SEPTEMBER 1976] Electricity Bill shows that in 1964, for example, the demand will be very short-lived. Most manufacturing in the Southern Electric Authority region was in the State takes place in Brisbane. In 96 per cent of capacity. Certainly there was this city there are a whole host of commercial a problem then because obviously, with only and industrial concerns using electricity about 4 per cent cwpacity over supply, in which will simply pass on the increase of times of crisis ·there would have been con­ 15 per cent over so many years to the con­ siderable problems. I see that this has been sumers of Queensland whether they be remedied. The position has improved each metropolitan or country consumers. There­ year (given one or two rises and falls), and fore this proposal is directly inflationary. in 1976 the position is that the Southern The country people who, supposedly, will Electric Authority region has a 76 per cent benefit from this rationalisation will be paying demand on capacity, which means there for the extra electricity charges of manu­ is a 24 per cent surplus capacity. If there facturing and other businesses when they is a 24 per cent surplus, I faH to see how in purchase products. That is directly inflation­ fact there is any real problem facing us in ary. times of crisis while the present situation I see nothing wrong with the metropolitan pertains. area being called on to subsidise country I am not talking parochially about Bris­ areas in certain circumstances. After all, bane; I am talking about the Southern Elec­ my very good friend from Flinders (Mr. tric Authority region demands. If we look Katter) was able to show me only the other at the position in Brisbane we find that the day how people in country areas subsidise Brisbane demand on the Southern Electric people in Brisbane through the railway sys­ Authority capacity is only 37 per cent of tem. I am sure that he has the figures in capacity, or about half that of the entire his desk if he wants to produce them now­ region. I see that he is waving them at me. An interesting point arises when we look I accept that we might want to integrate at the projected capacity and the projected cost sharing throughout the State. If we are demand of both the region and the metro­ to do that why can't it come out of Con­ politan area for the next six years. The solidated Revenue, like any other subsidy? projected capacity will be double the present The Minister said that he agrees with the capacity. Why is it to be double the present concept of uniform tariffs. He thinks we capacity unless demand is to double? (Even have to get the revenue from the taxpayers then that would mean doubling the surplus but he said that, after all, the electricity in absolute terms.) However the demand on consumer is a taxpayer. That is a very the Southern Electricity Authority will not interesting analogy. It seems to me that double. If the capacity doubles as planned, even if we accept that it is fair or just that the demand in the Southern Electric Author­ country people should pay a lower unit cost ity region will fall to 55 per cent of capac­ for power, it is not ipso facto fair and ity from the 76 per cent of capacity at which just that the subsidy should come only from it stands at the moment. The Brisbane the Brisbane electricity consumers. Why metropolitan area demand will fall from the should the electricty consumer in the metro­ 37 per cent demand on capacity at the mom­ politan area pay a double indemnity on ent to 27.8 per cent demand on capacity on his electricity use? Why should he alone the projected figures for 1982. subsidise the whole State? Why not take That is very interesting. It means a rise it out of Consolidated Revenue? in surplus capacity from 24 per cent at The principle of capacity to pay, which the present to 45 per cent in six years. I ask honourable member for Bulimba referred to, this question, which I hope will be answered is in fact incorporated in this proposal, to my satisfaction (and I hope that I am although in a muted form. We will then see proved wrong), "Is the basic reason for this that the electricity consumer of Brisbane is proposed legislation the financing of the not being equated, as the Minister would like very high capital cost and redemption to equate him, with taxpayers throughout charges attributable to a very large and the State. That is the old fallacy of equating premature investment in generating capacity?" the part with the whole. It is not good I use those words advisedly because it is a enough to say that the electricity consumer very large investment in generating capacity. is a taxpayer, therefore when the Brisbane Capacity is to be doubled though we know, electricity consumer gets a slug of extra in fact, that demand will not double. I also tariff, it is the same as the taxpayer paying ask is it premature. If that is so, I do not it. It is a very partiail. commmer-the elec­ believe that the expense is justifiable. I tricity consumer in the Brisbane area-who am asking a question; I am not saying that is being equated with the taxpayer of the it is not justifiable. I hope I get facts and whole State. figures from the Minister to match my figures We are told that in the long run-and and show them to be wrong. that is the key phrase here-everybody (even I come now to the manner of payment. the people of Brisbane) will be better off. For the life of me I cannot see justice in As far as I am concerned there are many, the manner of payment suggested. If many questions to be answered. In the rationalisation means that there must be a Minister's introductory remarks I did not see subsidy to country users at the expense of the answers; I did not see the figures. We Brisbane users, the effects of this measure were not given any indication of them. I Electricity Bill (14 SEPTEMBER 1976] Electricity Bill 449 hope that the Minister can answer most of and its modern machinery. It amazes me the questions I have raised. I hope he will that Labor Party members have objected so regard them as worthy of some kind of many times when the Queensland Govern­ answer. If he does not, I shall have to ment has taken the initiative to get cheap conclude that there are no answers to those overburden coal from the Utah mine. They questions. think that, because it is a multinational com­ I do say this, however: I will not oppose pany, it is a naughty company and therefore the introduction of this Bill into the Cham­ cannot play a part in giving Queenslanders ber. I believe that it is only right that the cheaper power. However, we have taken no Bill should be introduced. I am grateful that notice of them. We are going to proceed the Minister has offered to let the Bill lie on with the scheme. I would hope that, as a the table for a considerable period after the result, inflation will be checked. first reading. Some aldermen I know and If Brisbane stayed with the S.E.A., it is some economists in my electorate will fair to say that in 15 years' time power delight in sitting down with me over the would be three times as dear as it is now, next few weeks, with the Bill and the as against the 1 per cent per annum increase Minister's speech, so we can decide for our­ that is envisaged under this proposal. I selves whether or not Brisbane will be better invite those people who do not agree with off in the long run. I want to resolve it in what we are doing to opt out of the scheme my own mind, with the advice of experts and to remain with the S.E.A. We would that I trust (in addition to the expert advice see then how they would fare, with their that the Minister gives, which of course I dear coal from the Ipswich area, bearing also trust). in mind that they run out of coal from However, at the moment there are ques­ Ipswich every so often and that the Central tions to be cleared up. I hope that, if those Queensland people have to supply them with questions cannot be cleared up to our satis­ coal to keep the local powerhouses going. I faction, the Minister will consider amend­ can remember coming down here last year ments. After all, it is not much use asking us and showering in the cold because the coal­ to introduce the Bill and let it lie on the fields of that area could not supply sufficient table for a certain amount of time for open coal for the generation of Brisbane's power. discussion and public debate if in fact the All hell broke loose then. Only tonight in possibility of amendment is not to be offered this Chamber it has been said that the also. generation needs are going to quadruple in a certain period. How the hell will the I certainly hope that these questions will Ipswich coal-fields provide all of this coal? I be cleared up. I join with the sort of reser­ ask these people to have a little common vations that my colleague from Ithaca sense and look at this thing in a business-like expressed when debating the issue earlier. manner. Surely to goodness they can see I hope that the Minister will match the facts that what we are doing will eventually and figures that have been given to me by mean cheaper and not dearer power for a friendly economist with facts and figures Brisbane. of his own and not just reply that, because Might I suggest that with the linking of he is a Minister of the Government that I these authorities, it is fair to equalise the belong to, I must trust his judgment and cost of power for the private consumers in trust his word. Even though I do have that this State. I point out that in all ~airness initial trust, nevertheless there are the people the Brisbane people cannot have 1t both in South Brisbane whom I represent. I am ways. The Townsville Regional Electricity concerned for their welfare. Because they Board the Cairns Regional Electricity Board do not know the Minister personally, maybe and the Mackay Regional Electricity Board they will not have the same trust as I do, have brought in this scheme successfully and and I would like to be able to take to them all of the people in Townsville, Cairns and his facts and figures and not only his good Mackay have been quite prepared to help will. their country counterparts. Without trying to get into any form of Mr. LESTER (Belyando) (9.48 p.m.): The argument, I should like to say that the purpose of this Bill is to set up administrative country people do not mind subsidising the machinery to link up all the generating city freeways; helping to provide the cost stations in Queensland. Let us be quite clear of the cultural centre; and helping to provide about this. It is not just some wildcat the cost of the Brisbane transport system. National Party scheme to try to give cheaper They realise that when they come to Brisbane power to country people at the expense of these facilities are here for their use. Most Brisbane consumers. It is anything but of them do not mind subsidising or helping that. It is a scheme that will benefit each to meet the cost of the Commonwealth and every Queenslander. Mark my word, Games, although I must confess that I now is the time to move on this. What we personally join with the honourable member are trying to do as a Parliament is to help for Salisbury in voicing some concern at each and every Queenslander. what this will cost all taxpayers in Queens­ Under the scheme Gladstone will be the land. I point out that as the Commonwealth main generating station in Queensland, with Games will come to Brisbane at a time its cheaper coal, its up-to-date technology when inflation is running no end, we could 15 450 Electricity Bill [14 SEPTEMBER 1976] Electricity Bill be faced w1th enormous debts. That honour­ no mmmg companies in this State, no Glad­ able member has voiced a concern for the stone alumina plant and no other huge indus­ needy people of her electorate. It amazes tries. Companies would not come here to me that a couple of Opposition members start operations if there were no bulk rates; have chosen to smile, laugh and carry on. they would go to other countries where they I suggest that they would be doing a better could obtain electricity much cheaper than job if they voiced equal concern for the here. The Labor Party is not sticking up for needy people in their electorates. The elec­ the workers; it is trying to put them out of torate of Salisbury has never been so well jobs. Let us hear no more of this silly rot; represented. there is no other way to describe it. Mem­ bers of the Labor Party condemn bulk elec­ It does concern me, having made those tricity rates but they do not ever condemn points, that some people in Brisbane-those the buying of groceries and various other in authority-do not know what they are items at bulk rates. In other words, they talking about. They are hell-bent in trying want it both ways; but in this world we can­ to stop the introduction of this Bill. They not have it that way. I am sorry, but that have claimed that we are trying to victimise is the situation. the Brisbane people. They just do not know what they are talking about. I go a little further in justifying bulk rates. One dragline operating on a coal­ Mr. Yewdale: Who are you referring to? field uses in 24 hours the same amount of power as is used in a town the size of Cler­ Mr. LESTER: I am referring to the mont. Let no-one try to deny that, because Brisbane City Council people who walked out that information came to me from an of the negotiations. The honourable member engineer. A dragline is linked to the power knows that they walked out. supply by one large cable, whereas Cler­ Might I go further and point out that mont has no fewer than 20,000 to 30,000 unionists have attacked me because I dared electrical fittings. Is it not therefore many, to stand up for the rights of country people. many times cheaper to supply power to big I say further that those trade-unionists sold concerns than to town consumers? out their counterparts in the country. They The Government is making a profit, too, told them to go to hell. They said, "We're from its bulk-rate operations. It is attract­ all right mate; to hell with you." That is ing industry to this State and it is helping what I got and the honourable member the working people. for Rockhampton North cannot deny it I take further issue with the Labor Party. because it was in "The Courier-Mail". It I am amazed to hear that they are coming has meant an extra 2,000 votes for me in this gollywog of subsidies for country areas the next election. I will use it all the way. to be paid from Consolidated Revenue. How If that is the way they want to treat me, mad are they? I am dumbfounded when I good luck to them. They helped me a lot hear them go on in this way. Let it be and I thank them. I thank the honourable made very clear that if their suggestion were member for Rockhampton North for bringing adopted we would all have to pay extra up that point. I know he is a good man. taxes and the country would be wrecked. And he is a good man; I fully admit that. They just do not understand what we are His electors in Rockhampton North have talking about. In fact, they do not even told me often of the very good representation know which way they will vote on the Bill. he gives. I know it, and I am not being They are fighting like hell among themselves personal when I make these comments. and bringing in all sorts of innuendoes that What does concern me greatly is what mean nothing. They have only one thing we will do in times of strike. It would be in common-the desire to wreck the country very fair to say that strikers have a strangle­ and to hell with country people. hold on all of Queensland-all of its house­ holds and all of its domestic and industrial Mr. PREST (Port Curtis) (9.58 p.m.): I affairs. Not many people are involved in do not intend to spend a great deal of time power stations in Queensland but, goodness in speaking to the motion. I agree if' prin­ me, they wield a big, heavy stick. In these ciple with the Bill but with some reserva­ days, when people seem to be demanding tions. I believe that the composition of the more and more and seem to be getting boards shows that they will be rubber stamps more and more militant, we have to put for the commission. I do not believe that some teeth into our legislation so that the replacing shire or council representatives with ordinary person or the ordinary family will Government appointees will be of any bene­ not be victimised. Members of the Labor fit to country people. I also believe that the Party are not businessmen and they gave areas will be far too big for their represen­ our country the biggest turkey tramp it has tatives to do a job that will be of any ever had when they came to office not so benefit to the industry. I do not believe long ago in the Federal sphere. Thank good­ that one man can represent the whole of the ness their power was short lived. Central West. After all, he is paid to attend meetings on one day or half a day and I Labor members object to bulk rates for cannot for the life of me see how he would electricity. How mad can you be! If there know what was required in the whole of were no bulk electricity rates there would be that area. My remarks apply not only to the Electricity Bill (14 SEPTEMBER 1976] Electricity Bill 451 central-western area but to many areas that Domestic consumers in the C.R.E.B. area will be increased when the reorganisation pay a higher rate than is necessary. I be­ comes about. lieve that six large industrial users are We were very happy when the Gladstone charged about 50 per cent less for power Power Station was built in our area, but I per unit than it costs to generate. If this is am certain it was situated there only because true, then the Minister should inform the that was the correct site. Committee why it is allowed to happen. The Government has been very backward Mr. Moore: For what other reason would in giving subsidies to consumers for rural you do it? connections. Unfortunately, the boards give Mr. PREST: After all, costs had to be twice the subsidy for rural connections that considered and in view of the wonderful the Government does, a Government which potential of Gladstone-I am quite certain I thought was supposed to be sympathetic the honourable member opposite who is towards country people. I have heard it bellowing his lungs out does not know any­ suggested that assistance should be given to thing about Gladstone-- the electricity industry in the form of a sub­ sidy. Mr. Moore: We gave you a hiding. Mr. Moore: Why? Mr. PREST: Government members failed Mr. PREST: That subsidy was proposed when they came up there, but never mind. by the Australian Labor Party in 1969 and We should not forget the faith that was 1972. I cannot see how it will be possible placed in Gladstone in the early 1950s. to leave all electricity workers in their pre­ People believed that something could be sent places of employment and in their pre­ done in the area. Had we had a Labor sent classifications, as stated by the Minister, Government over the years I am quite cer­ as I believe that great changes will have to tain rb:t the development that is taking be made if the electricity industry is to be place today would be nothing compared to of any benefit at all to consumers. what would have been done. We would have seen a much more accelerated rate of growth. The aim of the Bill is to give power at as cheap a rate as possible to all consumers I believe that the power station which is to in Queensland, and I am quite certain that be opened on Friday next has been financed members will have much more to say about by the consumers in the Capricornia Reg­ the proposal when they have had an oppor­ ional Electricity Boal'd area. I believe it has tunity to read the Bill. been financed by increased charges to the consumers in my area over the past three Mr. M. D. HOOPER (Townsville West) years. These charges were no doubt increased (10.6 p.m.): I sincerely believe that the to enable the C.R.E.B. to pay for this work introduction of legislation to reorganise the out of revenue because the Treasury could whole of the electricity supply industry in not and would not finance other schemes as Queensland is very long overdue. For many the board was involved in the building of years, industry leaders have advocated the this new power station. Unfortunately, the introduction of legislation of this type, and cost of the new power station has far ex­ people in all walks of life have accepted ceeded what was envisaged ·at the outset and the practical concept of it. We have all the completion date has gone far beyond wondered why it has taken so long to what we had imagined it would be. I do not implement it. believe that the work-force is entirely to In my opinion, there were two main blame for this. The management must take reasons for the delay. One was the reluctance a fair share of the blame for the delay and of the Government at different stages to for the increase in costs which did occur. introduce legislation because it wondered The increases which have been imposed whether it was the practical thing to do will remain a charge over many years, and in the light of trends in the electrical industry; I am quite certain that the electricity author­ the other was the resistance of people in ities will continue to increase charges owing the industry--executive officers and engineers to inflation or, should I say, owing to the -who thought that they might lose their wastage that goes on within the boards. I jobs (who were concerned about their jerseys, am quite certain that no restraint at all is one might say, in a particular region) or applied to spending by the regional elec­ have to accept a transfer. tricity boards, and in addition, unfortunately, As the Minister pointed out when intro­ every few months coal-suppliers ask for a ducing the Bill, the matter has been kicked price increase without any justification. Their around for years. Everyone in the industry profits are down and so they argue that the has had a go at it-the industry leaders, price of coal supplied to the Board should the unions, the electrical workers and the be increased. I think this is wrong. These electrical contractors-and they have all had increases are always paid and the cost is a chance to make suggestions as to what then passed on to the consumers because it new clauses should be incorporated in the is over the amount that has been allowed legislation. What is now being brought in the board's budget. The coal suppliers before the Committee is a reasonable com­ should be required to substantiate their promise to suit all parties involved; but, demands for price increases. at the same time, it is a sensible Bill that 452 Electricity Bill [14 SEPTEMBER 1976] Electricity Bill will do much to reorganise not only the contemptible attitude of some 50 maintenance generation of electricity but also the supply unionists at Collinsville in going out on and distribution and the sale of electrical strike. Thousands of people in North Queens­ goods and appliances. land suffered hardship and inconvenience as Of course, those who stand to gain most the result of a strike by these unionists, one from the introduction of the legislation are that is more politically orientated than any­ the consumers. When I say "consumers", thing else occurring in the industry in North I mean all the citizens of Queensland, not Queensland over a lengthy period. If the just the citizens of Brisbane or the citizens grid system had been in operation, the of the remainder of the State. The citizens people in North Queensland would not have of Queensland as a whole are the ones who been inconvenienced so much over the past stand to gain. 10 days. I was very surprised earlier in the debate As other members have said, for some to hear the Leader of the Opposition trying years the Northern Electric Authority has to make out-and other honourable members adopted a practice that is now being intro­ have spoken along similar lines-that the duced into the whole of Queensland. The citizens of Brisbane and the dormitory areas people of Townsville have been paying a surrounding it will be disadvantaged by the tariff to help support those in Mackay and Bill. They have said that Brisbane people Cairns. The people of Cairns think .they are will pay more. Surely we are here to do the only ones who get cheap electricity in what we think is best for all the citizens of North Queensland, but if it were not for the Queensland, irrespective of their geographic absorption of Cairns into the power grid location. of North Queensland the people of Cairns . I have not heard the Leader of the Opposi­ would be further in debt than under the tion complain during the life of this Parlia­ present system. We have accepted the res­ ment that the Government has recently spent ponsibility of subsidising areas adjacent to us as well as those in the western areas of ab?ut $36,000,000 building new freeways in the State. We accept this because we know Bnsbane and also has introduced legislation that, if we did not, there would be no that will result in the spending of about decentralisation or development in the west­ $50,000,000 on the construction of a cultural ern areas. I am urging honourable members complex. Members of the Government and to support the Bill because it introduces a mef!lbers of the Opposition have supported practice that has been in existence now for projects such as these because they realise many years in the North. that they are necessary improvements that must be made in the capital city. It is the In the short term there may be some small dress-circle of Queensland; and most of the increases in tariffs in Brisbane, but these population of the State is centred here, and will not occur in the first year. The from time to time visitors from other States Minister has made it plain that any equalisa­ will also wish to use these facilities. They tion of tariffs for the bulk supply will take are, of course, paid for out of the public place over a period of something like 15 purse, and I believe that honourable members years. In the long term, because of the wh? are objecting to this proposal and construction of the major power station at sayu~g. that the country people are being Gladstone and the anticipated construction subsidised by the people of Brisbane are of others over the next 10 or 15 years, all talking a lot of tommy-rot. They should power supplied to Brisbane and its surround­ look at the facts and understand that we are ing districts will come from Central Queens­ here to govern the whole of Queensland land, where coal is available at half the cost not just Brisbane. ' of that supplied to the Swanbank Power It has been said that the cost of electricity Station. In the long run Brisbane people will in Brisbane is somewhat lower than the cost benefit more than country people. in Sydney and Melbourne. I deny that because i_nformation given to me by peopl~ The Leader of the Opposition complained engaged m. commerce and also by domestic that the Bill provides for too much central­ consumers m Sydney shows that tariffs there isation. He said that elected members in ~e considerably lower. I should be glad country areas would lose their say in the If members who have produced figures durincr composition of the boards and that they this debate would show them to me late!:': would not have any say in electricity devel­ opments in their regions. The Minister has I would like to examine them. I am sur~ that the tariffs in Brisbane are not nearly made it quite clear that the Bill provides as low as some people seem to think they for the setting up of seven regional electricity are. boards throughout the State and that these boards will comprise eight members, five of Later this week we will see the opening whom will be members of elected councils of the first stage of the new powerhouse at nominated by the local authorities in the Gladstone, and when Stage 2 is completed in region. Of those five members, one will be about 1978 we will also see the completion the chairman of the board. At all times of a total grid system for the whole of the commissioner is an ex-officio member Queensland. What a great boon that would of the board, but the main say in the dis­ have been in the last week or 10 days to tribution of power and extension of power the people of North Queensland who were lines into new areas will be in the hands drastically inconvenienced by the callous and of elected representatives, as it is now. Electricity Bill [14 SEPTEMBER 1976) Electricity Bill 453

I have no doubt that when members read important good pastures are for milk pro­ the Bill they will be more at ease than at duction. If electricity cannot be obtained at present. As the Minister has said, it is a a suitable price for irrigation this industry most comprehensive document and one that will have to fold in times of adversity. covers all the important aspects of the industry. It brings them together into one In the Wide Bay area cheaper rates are compact Bill. I am looking forward to offered in off-peak periods, but the S.E.A. its printing so that it can lie on ,the table offers no concessions. If one area can grant for several weeks and be available for close concessions for power used in off-peak scrutiny. I am sure that when all members periods I see no reason why other areas can­ have had the opportunity of studying it not do likewise. I hope that this matter will closely the opposition to it in the minds of be given serious consideration with the estab­ some people will disappear and the Bill will lishment of this authority and the equalisa­ pass through the House. tion of power throughout the State. Mr. GOLEBY (Redlands) (10.14 p.m.): Closer to home I have certain matters to This Bill will be of long-term benefit to the raise concerning electricity distribution in my whole of the State. As we look back area. I ask honourable members to keep in over the years we see that in the metropoli­ mind that no point in the electorate of Red­ tan area and in the south-eastern corner of lands is farther than 35 miles from the Bris­ the State power was supplied by what was bane G.P.O., yet quite a large area is with­ first known as the City Electric Light Co. out electricity reticulation. I refer particu­ and later by the Southern Electric Authority. larly to the southern mainland area of the This Bill will mean that the whole of Queens­ Redland Shire, where there are still small land will be controlled by one board. At pockets without electricity, and to the Bay the present time the tariffs applying in our islands. Until recently Stradbroke Island was coastal towns and western areas vary greatly. without reticulated electricity. Thanks to the The people of Queensland are fully aware sand-mining industry which has developed in that the cheapest electric power is in the recent years, it was possible to reticulate North. In the western towns various tariffs power to Amity Point, Dunwich and Point apply. The cheapest coal is to be found in Lookout. All these centres now enjoy an the Central Queensland area. The Gladstone electricity service whereas a few years ago station will be drawing coal from this source it was only a pipe dream. That is a clear while Swanbank draws on some of the indication of what industry can bring to an dearest coal mined in the State. But for the area. introduction of this measure and the grid system, Brisbane faces higher charges in the The S.E.A. is preparing to take electricity long term. It could be argued that in the to Coochiemudlo, which is only half a mile immediate future we would be better off to from Victoria Point. This was made pos­ stay as we are, but in the long term people sible only after the Government amended in the south-eastern corner would pay much the Local Authority Act to allow the local more for electricity than those in the authority to be the guarantor. That meant northern areas of the State. If that were that the landholder did not have to guarantee to happen industries that are concentrated in an enormous sum for the reticulation of elec­ the capital city would no longer be able to tricity to a few homes. The islands of compete with industries in other areas. They Macleay, Lamb and Karragarra have no would have to go to areas providing cheaper reticulated power, and only part of Rus­ power. When this legislation is passed, the sell Island has been connected. So far some whole of Queensland will be under the one 18,000 allotments have been subdivided on authority and paying the same price. them for residential purposes, yet there is no electricity. I certainly hope that the intro­ I should like consideration to be given to duction of this new system will make it the use of off-peak power by industry. much easier for the areas I have mentioned, Secondary industries use tremendous quanti­ just 35 miles from the G.P.O., to enjoy the ties of power on shift work but they pay benefits of such an essential commodity as the same rates as ordinary day-time users. electricity. If more off-peak power were used, loadings could be more evenly distributed. I know that the local authority will do everything possible in assisting to connect Primary producers are experiencing a dry power to those islands. I believe it will season which could be the forerunner of a act as guarantor just as it has done before. drought period. If they could use cheaper In doing so, it will charge all the land­ power in the evening they would be helped holders, whether in residence or owning financially and loadings during the day would vacant blocks, the cost of taking electricity be relieved. Most of our primary industries to the area. I would be pleased if the face a financial crisis. Before long many Minister could give the Committee and me producers will be unable to afford electricity an assurance that, when the new grid for irrigation; it will become a luxury. When system and the new board operation come that happens food production will decline into effect, it will be possible to connect markedly. Everyone knows the problems those areas which are so close to the heart confronting the dairying industry and how of Brisbane. 454 Electricity Bill [14 SEPTEMBER 1976) Electricity Bill

Mr. JONES (Cairns) (10.21): After listen­ later became the City Electric Light Com­ ing to the Minister's outline of the measure, pany and later the S.E.A.Q. If my memory I think one of the most satisfying features serves me correctly it was about that time, of the legislation is that seven . el~ctricity in 1963, that the rationalisation took place boards will be retained to supply the con­ between the Brisbane City Council and the sumers of Queensland. In his speech the S.E.A. Minister said that there was no opposition The economics of electricity supply forced to the proposals. However, I have some the extension of the organisation beyond the recollection of meetings in Far North Queens­ boundaries of local government and to in­ land at which great concern was expressed dividual local authority areas, so that the about the initial proposal to have only four scattered rural areas in effect could be and regions. At that time we traversed some were supported on an incremental or mar­ very troubled waters. After our initial rough ginal cost basis by areas of concentrated passage, we have obviously justified our development. This has been the effect right existence. In Far North Queensland, we throughout Queensland over a ,long period; have once aPain weathered the storm. Tak­ it has been a pattern of regional develop­ ing the matter of subsidising areas a little ment. further, I think that we in Far North Queens­ land will welcome any subsidies that flow So developed our regional electricity from centralisation, rationalisation or what­ boards and then the N.E.A. Of course there ever one might like to call it. were a lot of recriminations and much heart­ burn about the time that the N.E.A. was C.R.E.B.-the Cairns undertaking-was formed and there was a lot of concern, acquired in 1932 by the Ban·on Falls Hydro­ particularly in Cairns, at having to forfeit electricity Board, which was formed two the local Barron Falls hydroelectric scheme, years earlier. The Barron Falls Power Station which the people were very proud of. It commenced production of electricity in 1935 became the C.R.E.B. and then the N.E.A. with two 1200 kW sets, followed in 1940 and now it is to be turned into a single by a 1400 kW set. The board was a pioneer authority area. in electrical development, and by the out­ break of World War 11 it was well estab­ The proposal to set up the single generat­ lished, supplying the Tableland areas and ing authority and seven distributing authori­ south as far as Tully. We have been very ties will involve changes in public control. proud of the inaugural development of our This is a matter that we should be looking electricity supply in Far North Queensland. at closely. The regional boards have been We are proud of the pioneers of the Barron made up of elected councillors and alder­ Falls hydroelectric scheme, one of whom men nominated by individual local authori­ was a mentor of mine, the late Bill Mur­ ties elected by the ratepayers in the area. chison, who later became Mayor of Cairns. They came from their own regions and had Like me, he was a guard in the railways. to be approved by the Governor in Council. At present the board of the N.E.A. com­ By 1945, after the war, the C.R.E.B. prises the chairmen of the three northern was established. Then followed the Tully boards, two Government members, and I Falls scheme of 1956-57 and the Barron think the commissioner. Falls Hydroelectric Extension Project was At the outset, when this proposal was first commissioned in 1963. At about that time mooted, one of the main objections coming 72 per cent of the installed generating capa­ from local level was centred on concern for city was located in the Cairns region, which the erosion of ·local authority representation had only about 38 per cent of the load. on the distributing boards. The lack of In effect, we were actually subsidising other such representation on the generating board areas. What we have to remember is that was a fear that might be realised today. The at about that time the N.E.A. was formed, absence of local government representation under the Northern Electricity Authority of on the generating board would mean that Queensland Act of 1963, which was assented the representatives of the people would have to on I December 1963. no means of dete~mining costs and efficiency I can recall, in the 1930s, my parents of power stations or the relative costs of talking with some great pride of the Barron steam or hydro generation. This is a moot Falls hydroelectric scheme. In most places point in Far North Queensland now, as in Australia at that time electricity was first decisions in those matters will be taken out made available by local authorities and was of their hands. paid for in toto by the ratepayers. Furthermore, they are denied any voice in That is relevant today when this measure the future planning and operation of power­ is being debated. The Barron Falls hydro­ houses and transmission lines in their region. electric scheme was one such scheme that This is a matter of concern for the people was paid for by a levy and by the ordinary of Far North Queensland. My interpretation people who were the consumers of electricity. of what the Minister said is that under the proposed measure local government represen­ The notable exception was Brisbane, when tation may be reduced to a minority vote, or its council declined to purchase the business even a non-existent vote, following reduction of Barton and White, I think it was, for in numbers by the process of amalgamation. £4,000 or $8,000 in 1895. This company It appears that the voice of the people is no Electricity Bill [14 SEPTEMBER 1976] Electricity Bill 455 longer to be heard in the electricity industry I do not think the Minister is going to and this is indeed a retrograde step for improve the situation, as I said during the Queensland and my area in particular. This debate on the Address in Reply, by allow­ view will prevail in Far North Queensland ing an electrical contractor to connect addi­ and for this reason I seek some assurance tions to an installation without a further from the Minister on this matter. We, of check by an installations inspector. Dan­ course, would welcome a reduction in con­ gerous mistakes in connections have been sumer costs and, if equalisation of rates found in the past during inspections of means that, we welcome the Bill. additions to installations. Human error does occur and it does not hurt to double-check. At this stage I should like to make a plea I will name the installation errors to which I on behalf of the pensioner consumer, the refer. They are: general purpose outlets with person who is on a very limited income. With no earth-return wire; switches on lights and the escalating tariffs that have been the order power outlets not controlling the active con­ of the day, many pensioners find it very ductor; ranges, hot water systems and difficult indeed to meet their electricity luminaries without an earth; and bare charges. I think that one of ilie major joints in cables under houses that are objectives of this legislation should be the accessible to children. These are the granting of concessions to those on low things that crop up time and time wages such as deserted wives (supporting again and which come to the attention of mothers, as they are now called), super­ installations inspectors. I have received annuitants and persons on pensions. It surely representations on this matter, as have all would be very simple, as is done in the my colleagues in the Northern Electric railways, to grant them a 50 per cent con­ Authority area. The people who are doing cession merely on the presentation of their the job are concerned about this. medical cards. That is something that we should be looking at when considering one From the supply authorities' point of view, authority and a reduction in rates. who is to ensure that any addition is con­ nected to the correct tariff meter or will it Mr. Ahern: It would be a cost to every­ in fact be metered at all if we are going one else, of course. to look at costs? If we are going to look at costs incurred in inspections, I think per­ Mr. JONES: It is being done now on a haps we should remember that a similar State-wide basis so why not include pen­ charge is levied by local authorities for sioners in the over-all planning? There is inspections by building inspectors, health no reason why pensioners should not be inspectors and plumbing inspectors. Perhaps given some concessions in this area of such a charge should be incorporated in the activity. I am sure it would be possible at tariff to make sure there is a double check this stage to at least consider some reduction by installations inspectors. I think we should in tariffs for pensioner consumers. protest against any amendment designed to reduce electrical safety. The possible loss Mr. Ahern: I take your point, but it is of revenue by an electric authority is of difficult today, with the means test now minimal consideration, and if we have such abolished and lots of people-- a good record, why alter it? Why alter the system if it has proved itself and if it has Mr. JONES: When a pensioner has a stood on its own two feet since 1896? Surely medical card, he falls into a certain category. that is proof enough that it should remain. He has to go through a means test to receive I do not think we should reduce inspectorial his medical card and I think that its pro­ staff at this point. duction should be sufficient proof of entitle­ Mr. Moore: They don't do the job now. ment to a concession. If the Government What are you talking about? wishes to look after Queenslanders, surely the pioneers, the people who paid for the Mr. JONES: I am pleased to accept the Barron Falls hydroelectric scheme in their honourable member's interjection, but I do rates back in the 1930s, are entitled to some not believe that that is so. The proof is in concessions under this new measure in the the Minister's own words. He said that we 1970s. They paid for their electricity supply have had no fatalities through electrocution in the early days, so these pioneers should be over a long period. That refutes the honour­ given some concession now that they are on able member's argument. limited incomes. Mr. Moore: It doesn't do anything of the The other point raised by the Minister in sort. Switches and lights are changed every his introduction was the consolidation of day and no inspector goes to any house. five Acts, each of which will be repealed. The Minister said that he is going to update Mr. JONES: That might happen in the the law relating to the use of electricity. honourable member's area. I do not know The Minister mentioned the Electric Light if that is so, but it does not happen in my and Power Act of 1896 and said that it had area. No connection is made unless the stood the test of time. If it had stood the installations inspector goes out and checks test of time, that should be enough to let it. l am terribly shocked to hear the hon­ it stand alone. ourable member admit that it does not 456 Electricity Bill (14 SEPTEMBER 1976] Electricity Bill

happen down here and denigrate what hap­ them very graphically in the last two weeks pens in North Queensland. I think it should the advantages of having such a system. A be done down here. I do not want it to be number of people in Collinsville were not neglected in my area and I do not want to able to hold North Queensland to ransom, put any of my constituents at risk through because it was possible to plug various other somebody's neglect. sources of power-hydroelectric sources and If the honourable member claims that that fuel-powered powerhouses-into the grid is what happens down here, he should stand system in North Queensland. up and prove it. He has had the opportunity With one grid for the whole of .Queens­ to speak in this debate. He should bring land, it will be possible to plug various it to the attention of the Minister instead powerhouses throughout the State into the of denigrating what I am saying. If what one system. Therefore, if any major break­ he says is going on down here, it will be throughs occur in the future-if, for example, on his head if anybody is electrocuted another big hydroelectric project comes into through neglect. That is my opinion and I being-the whole of Queensland will get am sticking to it. As far as I am concerned cheaper power. If bigger loads and cheaper the honourable member is wrong in principle. coal suddenly become available, it will be If he had anything to do with writing this possible to provide cheaper power for the sort of provision into the Bill, he ought to whole of Queensland. If there is a big be ashamed of himself. breakthrough in the solar generation of elec­ Mr. Yewdale: He does not need inspecting; tricity, it will be possible to plug in a he needs examining. cheap power system for the benefit of the whole of the State. Mr. JONES: That could be so. It strikes me as being crass stupidity to Let me return to the provisions of the say that if there is one grid for the whole Bill. I was pleased to have the Minister's of Queensland, we can have a series of assurance that no employee will be required little regionalised bodies, acting independently, to change his residence, that employees will when they are actually receiving power from retain a similar classification throughout the and feeding power into their own systems and State, and that the leave provisions, par­ other systems in the State. I cannot see ticularly those relating to long service leave, how such a system could possibly work will be preserved. In addition, the staff will administratively, without one authority in be given the right to remain within the charge of it. Public Service and to be involved in a Let me move on to what I see as one superannuation scheme. of the major attractions of the proposed Mr. Katter: Is the A.L.P. supporting the Bill. It will make tariffs throughout Queens­ Bill, or does it intend to vote against it? land of equal value. I can remember very graphically listening to the man who is now Mr. JONES: No decision has yet been general manager of Mt. Isa Mines, Mr. David made. \Ve have not yet seen the Bill, and we BHchanan-if my memory serves me cor­ cannot make a decision on a Bill that we rectly, he was also general manager then­ have not seen. The honourable member giving an address in which he said that may have seen it, but the Opposition has the major thing that industry looks for is not seen it. Although I am in favour of cheap power. So anyone wishing to set up the principle of the Bill, I do not intend a major industry in Queensland would first to cast a vote until I have seen it. We have look for cheap power. Now, as never before, been caught too many times. The former industry will be able to go anywhere in member for Clayfield could tell the hon­ Queensland and have the same power-cost ourable member for Flinders a few stories structure, because the price of electricity about what has occurred between the intro­ will be the same all over the State. That ductory stage and the second-reading stage, is a major and significant step forward in the when one begins looking into the provisions Government's policy of decentralisation. of Bills. It is obvious that what is proposed is the I am pleased that the Minister has indi­ only logical thing that can be done under cated that he will allow the Bill to lie on such a system. On the question of equali­ the table for a considerable period so that sation of tariff throughout the State, it seems it can be examined in detail. Members of to me to be fairly logical that if cheap the Opposition will be able to obtain some power is being put into the grid at Gladstone, expert opinion on it and then come back everyone in the State should receive the into the Chamber and debate it with some benefit of that cheap power. It is said that authority. Brisbane has cheaper power at the present (Time expired.) moment and that when power is brought from Gladstone to Brisbane it will be supplied to Mr. KATIER (Flinders) (10.42 p.m.): As Brisbane at an even cheaper rate. If Bris­ I understand the proposal before the Com­ bane is using our cheap northern power, I mittee, Mr. Hewitt, an attempt is being made suggest that the people of Brisbane should to plug all the powerhouses in Queensland be prepared to make some sacrifice for the into a single grid system. The people of benefit of those in North Queensland and North Queensland have had illustrated to Central Queensland. Electricity Bill [14 SEPTEMBER 1976] Electricity Bill 457

This debate has revolved around this my electorate who will set foot in the com­ supposed injustice that will be heaped upon plex over the next 10 years. Perhaps 1 or the city of Brisbane. Tonight we have heard 2 per cent of the population of my electorate the figure of $20,000,000 mentioned in rela­ will do so, but they will be only the well tion to a subsidy. I wish to quote a few educated and rich people who can afford to figures, the first dealing with mineral visit the cultural complex. royalties, which come exclusively from North To revert to the Railway Department­ and Central Queensland. Consolidated Revenue made up for a loss In 1973 mineral royalties totalled incurred in the Southern Division in 1974-75 $5,000,000; in 1974, $9,000,000; and in 1975, of $44,000,000. $41,000,000. That money went into Con­ Let us look now at the figures that I have solidated Revenue for the benefit of all presented to honourable members. The Queenslanders. direct subsidy paid by North and Central Mr. Doumany: What about the gravel Queensland to the State as a whole totals barges on the Brisbane River? $63,000,000 a year and the subsidy that we have paid into Consolidated Revenue Mr. KATTER: I don't think the figure amounts to $51,000,000 a year, making a there would be a very significant one. total of $114,000,000. I move now to land rentals paid on Some people in this Assembly, including pastoral holdings. In 1972-73 the payments the Leader of the Opposition, have had the totalled $8,600,000; in 1973-74, $8,500,000; hide to criticise the Bill as outlined. The and in 1974-75, $6,000,000. Leader of the Opposition constantly mouths pious phrases about northern and western Perhaps the most significant figures of Queensland, but every time the chips are all can be found in the operations of the down and the voting is called his name Queensland Railway Department. I have no goes up on the board for this part of the doubt that the Minister will argue that these State versus the rest of Queensland. We figures are not indicative of the true situation. are talking about a direct subsidy of In answer to such a statement I would $63,000,000 from northern and western suggest that the mineral trains and grain Queensland and a subsidy of another trains are making huge profits and that $51,000,000 paid into Consolidated Revenue. these are being set off against the losses To be fair, I must say that another figure incurred on the other major railway system of $56,000,000 for roads must be taken into in the State, that is, the suburban com­ account. We run in deficit in that amount muter system in Brisbane. In 1972-73 the to the Brisbane area. I obtained these figures profit from the Northern and Central Divi­ from the Library and maybe they are a sions amounted to $29,000,000; in 1973-74, little off the mark, but it seems that in 1977 to $25,000,000; and in 1974-75, it had fallen there is a projected figure of $2,000,000 by to $16,000,000. In contrast, however, in the way of power subsidy for the rest of the Southern Region 1972-73 showed a loss of State versus a $63,000,000 import to Bris­ $24,000,000; 1973-74, a loss of $37,000,000; bane from the northern and central parts and 1974-75, a catastrophic loss of of the State. I point out to honourab1e $60,000,000. members who are afraid of losing their seats Mr. Brown: That didn't cost the people in Brisbane that it is honourable members there a cent-none of it did. representing the suffering people of North Queensland who are in danger of losing their Mr. KATTER: The interjection was that seats, thanks to the present Queensland this didn't cost the people of North and accounting system. Central Queensland a cent. A lot of people work very hard in the mines at Mt. Isa. I The measure we are debating will effect worked very hard there, labouring for over a obvious improvements in the electricity sup­ year. The people work in temperatures that, plies of the State of Queensland. This is a until recently, were claimed to be so high major step forward in decentralising the that no European could work in them. The State, as was the petrol price subsidy, which conditions there can only be described as was later wiped out by the Whitlam Govern­ appalling. I am not criticising the mines­ ment. In some small way it is a righting of they are as good as anywhere else in the the tremendous imbalance of money flowing world-but they present dangerorus, hot, from North Queensland to South Queens­ oppressive and appalling conditions. land. I pay tribute to the Minister for his courage in pressing forward with this measure The CHAIRMAN: Order! The honour­ for which people of North Queensland will be able member has allowed the interjector to eternally grateful. The name of Camm will take him away from the Bill. I suggest that be remembered for many years to come. he come back to it. Mr. LAMOND (Wynnum) (10.52 p.m.): Mr. KATTER: I refer now to the esti­ The Minister has covered various matters mated cost of the cultural complex that will associated with this measure and the main be erected here in Brisbane. A lot of people point we are considering is the eventual claim that this is for Queensland. I would equalisation of tariffs. WhiJe the provisions defy anyone to point out to me anyone in in the Bill are very extensive, this is the 458 Electricity Bill [14 SEPTEMBER 1976] Electricity Bill

most important one and this principle con­ will be considering the long-term and the cerns many of us. Frequently we hear at short-term effects not only on my electorate all levels of government, from all sections and Brisbane but also on the State of Queens­ of private enterprise and from people living land. in various areas about different forms of equalisation. Earlier speakers have referred There are various factors that we must to petrol price equalisation. Equalisation consider. The first is continuity of supply, must concern us in a State the size of which over a number of years we have seen Queensland, and when we are considering break down throughout the State. To me, equalisation to benefit most people in this continuity of supply forms a very important State we must look for the best and most aspect in the future development of electricity efficient method of producing a commodity. for the consumer and for industry, which When we are dealing with the production of ultimately affects employment. electricity in bulk, certain essential facts Questions have already been asked by other must be considered. Firstly is the supply of members, and I do not propose to pursue the fuel power and secondly the supply of avail­ matters raised in them. However, I think that, able labour. when the Minister answers the questions The Minister said that equalisation will posed by members on this side in connection be introduced over 15 years. I read some­ with the expected cost of production of elec­ where that the Minister commented that tricity in the Greater Brisbane Area in the there could be a 13 per cent increase spread coming period, it will readily be seen that in over a period of 15 years. If that is so and the long term it will be advantageous to if no more than that amount is passed on to those in the city of Brisbane if this Bill passes the consumer through the various distributing through all stages. However, I reserve my authorities, surely no-one would worry about right to follow the progress of the measure, it, particularly when it is considered that and I will listen with interest to the answers inflation is presently running at a rate in the Minister gives to the questions put to him. excess of 10 per cent. Mr. LANE (Merthyr) (11 p.m.): This legis­ I think most electricity consumers in Bris­ lation is of such long-term importance to bane received the pamphlet published by the members of this Parliament and to the State Brisbane City Council and signed by the of Queensland that we were all disappointed Lord Mayor, Alderman F. Sleeman, which to hear the contributions by the propagand­ says- ists opposite who fly under the title of an "! urge you:- Opposition in this Parliament. Appeal to your local State and Federal A particularly lame contribution was made parliamentarian to stop this take over." by the sometime Leader of the Opposition Let us look at the present system of elec­ who has made one of his infrequent visits to tricity charges in Brisbane. In 1965 an the Chamber. It is late at night and I sup­ increase took place in electricity rates. Then pose he can find nothing better to do. We in 1968 the increase was some 10 per cent. were all disappointed when he rose to open I do not have the figures for 1971 or 1972. the Opposition reply to the Minister's speech However, in 1973 there was a 2.9 per cent and proceeded to read a speech written by increase. In 1974 the increases between the one of his research staff. When he had fin­ months of April and December amounted to ished reading it, he walked out of the an incredible 22 per cent. It is noted in Chamber and disappeared. He took no fur­ "The Courier-Mail" o.f 14 September that it ther interest in a Bill which is of great im­ is expected that consideration will have to be portance to the State of Queensland. One given to a 10 per cent increase in electricity would have thought that, if he sees himself tariffs. We are advised by the Minister that as a potential Premier, he would have shown the passage of this Bill through the Parlia­ some real interest in it. It is a great shame. ment will in no way effect electricity tariff increases in the Brisbane area for the balance One other gentleman opposite who also of this year. seems to have some responsibility for talk­ ing on matters pertaining to electricity-! We must consider the part that electricity think he is the spokesman for the Electrical plays in our lives. Today it plays a vital role Trades Union (the honourable member for in the home and in industry. It creates Bulimba)-seems to 1Jake a more active role employment and powers all sorts of labour­ in this Parliament. He made a bigger con­ saving devices and home comforts. I have no tribution and, as usual, displayed more inter­ doubt that later the argument will be advanced est in the debate than the man who officially that, as a result of the use of coal from holds the title of Leader of the Opposition Central Queensland or elsewhere, industry in this place. Of course, he must ensure could be priced out of existence in Brisbane his endorsement from the Electrical Trades in the years ahead and there would be a Union for the next State election so I sup­ huge loss of employment opportunities in that area which presently has the greatest con­ pose he had to put on some sort of show centration of population in the State. tonight. During the later stages of this Bill I will Generally, members on this side of the most certainly consider those matters that will Chamber have tried to contribute something affect the electors of my area. However, I constructive. Electricity Bill [14 SEPTEMBER 1976) Electricity Bill 459

In this public debate we must look at Those of us who represent Brisbane seats, the role of the Labor-controHed Brisbane and who have, calling on us almost daily, City Council so far. It has nothing to be many electors who are confused by the proud of in the way it has managed the public debate on this matter, will be looking electricity supply in the Greater Brisbane to the Minister to measure up in that respect. Area over a long period of years. The fact I must say that, when the State suffered from that it marks up by 68 per cent the cost of powerhouse strikes during the last 12 months, the electricity it purchases before providing the Minister did an adequate job in the it to the Brisbane consumer condemns it public arena of explaining the Government's out of hand. It hides other costs-such as position. If he puts as much time and effort administrative costs, the cost of computers into this exercise as he did into the strike and other outlays in its infrastructure-within situation, it will be very much to the good. the price of electricity and the profit it The present proposal is, of course, something makes out of the sale of this commodity. that does not happen every year and it deser­ This also shows it is playing what should ves the time and energy of a Government be condemned as a deceitful game. The spokesman to make it clear to the people Opposition tried to excuse the actions of its who will have to live with it for at least two Labor colleagues in the Brisbane City Coun­ or three generations. cil in order to divert the debate from its mismanagement. There is another area of concern in which I think an explanation is owed by the Those of us who study the annual report Opposition. I refer to the threats of intimi­ of the Brisbane City Council know that in dation made by some of their colleagues in 1974-75, its expenditure on electricity totalled the trade union movement. It was gratifying something like $70,800,000. That included to hear the Minister's assurance that there the purchase of the energy in the first place have been extensive consultations with at a cost of $47,800,000, distribution costs electric authorities on the contents of the at $16,200,000, interest at $3,600,000 and legislation. He also said that there have depreciation at $3,200,000. From the sale been discussions with other interested parties, of that electricity it derived $78,300,000- such as trade unions, the Electrical Workers a clear net profit of $7,500,000. The observa­ and Contractors' Board and the Electrical tion is made in the annual report that the Contractors' Association. net profit was transferred to accumulated We have an assurance from the Minister funds. So electricity has been a big milch that in broad terms the trade unions support cow for the Brisbane City Council and par­ the proposal. Of course, time will tell ticularly the Labor-controHed council since whether that is in fact the position. I think it came to power. These are figures and facts we are entitled to have a little doubt in our that the Opposition seeks to hide and to minds about where the Electrical Trades gloss over as it tries to protect the name of Union stands in this matter when we read its colleagues and friends at the city halL statements such as that appearing in the Brisbane "Telegraph" of 4 September made On the other hand, the record of the State by an Electrical Trades Union organiser, Mr. and Commonwealth Governments towards Ken Vaughan, who happens to be the the Brisbane electricity service over the past endorsed Labor Party candidate for the seat few years has been quite outstanding. It is of Nudgee at the next State election. seen from the same report that the Common­ wealth and State Governments, as a joint Mr. Frawley: He's a real Left-winger, too. venture, assisted the Brisbane City Council Mr. LANE: Yes, of course he is-a electricity undertaking by a direct flood and militant. I quote from the "Telegraph"- typhoon relief grant for the years 1972 to 1975 of almost $1,500,000. This is the type "Electrical Trades Union organiser, Mr. of contribution that other levels of govern­ Ken Vaughan, said today disruptive indus­ ment have had to make. trial disputes would plague Queensland electricity systems if the State Government There have been quite a number of dis­ forced its rationalisation scheme through honest propositions put about by the Labor Parliament. city council. It has endeavoured to confuse "He said power unions would prepare the two issues of the annual adjustment of for demarcation disputes if the move was the price of electricity and the proposed successful. rationalisation of the electricity supply. I "Meetings of the power authorities and might say that I look to the Minister in the the unions since 1973 had failed to reach weeks to come to separate clearly those two agreement on how the new scheme would issues in the minds of the Brisbane public. I be implemented. believe the Minister has an obligation to explain the two separate aspects of electricity " 'But still the State Government intends supply, namely, the annual review of the to go ahead and introduce legislation bulk supply rate for energy sold by the which will bring industrial turmoil to the Southern Electric Authority to the Brisbane industry,' Mr. Vaughan said." City Council and the plan for a rationalisa­ Mr. Vaughan is one of the gentlemen tion of the electricity supply throughout the endorsed by the Australian Labor Party State. and he no doubt hopes to sit on the 460 Electricity Bill (14 SEPTEMBER 1976] Electricity Bill

same benches the Leader of the Opposition of the Gladstone Power Station. I am sure does. I hope that during the debate on that when the Gladstone Power Station was the second reading we will hear from the planned and when the whole concept was Leader of the Opposition, in something other developed, the consumers of Brisbane were than a prepared speech, an explanation of taken into consideration. It is being built just where his party stands in respect of to accommodate the consumers of Brisbane Mr. Vaughan's threats of industrial turmoil and if it were not for that accommodation and industrial blackmail-Mr. Vaughan, the it would not be such a major development. organiser of the Electrical Trades Union So I would like the Minister to put aside and the endorsed candidate for the electorate this argument that Gladstone belongs to the of Nudgee. It is probable that the Leader rest of Queensland, that we are lucky to of the Opposition will neglect this challenge. be getting some power from it and we should It is possible that he has no explanation and be paying the same for it as we do for the that Mr. Vaughan like the Leader of the expensive power from Swanbank. I think Opposition, is just playing cheap politics on that is quite a fallacious argument and I this question. do not think it will stand up in the public I would also like to hear an explanation debates that will ensue in the next few weeks. from the Minister as to whether he has There were many good arguments and prop­ a guarantee that there will be no industrial ositions put up in the Minister's introductory turmoil or disruptions caused by the Electrical remarks and I think he should stick to those Trades Union and his comments on these and reject this one. statements by Mr. Vaughan. In his introductory speech the Minister spoke about an unfair price advantage to Quite a large number of people are the people of Brisbane over many y~ars. employed within the electricity supply I do not know that it does anyone m a industry. As I understand it, it employs responsible position any good to say that over 8,960 people throughout the State. The Brisbane has had an unfair price advantage Brisbane City Council alone employs over and try to put it aside in that way. In 1,600 people in its electricity department addition, talk about people marching from and in this part of the State the Southern Ipswich to Brisbane is, I think, quite ridicul­ Electric Authority employs well over 3,500 ous. I hope that the Minister will stick people. Those were the figures as at to the sound arguments in his speech, many December last year. So if the unions affil­ of which would be quite acceptable in the iated with the Trades Hall and with the long term to the reasonable people in the Australian Labor Party intend to conduct a community. Talk about marches on Brisbane calculated campaign to disrupt the electricity is not helpful. supply industry as a result of the intro­ duction of this Bill, there is ample oppor­ I think that some Government members tunity for them to do so. have doubts about a couple of other aspects of the Bill. First, I should like to know There is one other matter arising from how it is proposed that the capital expansion the Minister's introductory remarks that I of the industry will take place in future and would like to raise. I must express some whether tariffs will be increased to cover disappointment with one of the comments that. The Minister and his advisers would made by the Minister. The matter has, of not wish to close any doors on this for the course, been discussed in other places and future-they would want to keep their options I had hoped that, following that discussion, open-but I should like some information on we would not hear any more of this nonsense that point. argument from the Minister about the price I do not think that anyone in the Chamber of coal at Swanbank. It seems to me that is an expert on electricity supply. It is a it has been proposed by the Minister now very big and specialised subject that only the over a period of months as one of his people in the industry understand in any arguments in favour of the Bill that the depth. Swanbank Power House is Brisbane's power­ house and that the Gladstone Power Station I must say that I have some reservations is everyone else's powerhouse so the people about the proposal that there be one com­ of Brisbane should be grateful that ultimately missioner, who will be all powerful. I under­ they will be allowed to use power from every­ stand that under the Bill the Minister will one else's powerhouse. It seems that there have some sort of overriding power and the is some mythical division between Brisbane commissioner will at least be under the super­ and the rest of the State. It seems to me vision of the Minister, or Cabinet, and of that the Gladstone Power House belongs to Parliament in the long term. Honourable Queensland as a whole and it is everyone's members must accept that in giving so much right to share in it. I do not believe that power to one man and one authority. the people of Brisbane should stay silent while Of course, centralism of any kind its con­ power from Gladstone is used elsewhere, trary to the Liberal Party's philosophical thinking, "We are very grateful to you for approach to government. However, because Central Queensland coal. You are doing us a the industry is so complex, we must listen big favour". I am sure that it was Brisbane to the experts and take their advice in good money-money provided by the ratepayers faith. I hope that the faith we have placed of Brisbane-which has gone at least part in the Minister and his advisers in respect of the way towards providing the capital cost of this Bill is not misplaced and that in the Electricity Bill (14 SEPTEMBER 1976) Electricity Bill 461 weeks to come we will see that we did the circuit. Whenever an electrician makes an right thing in allowing the legislation addition to an installation, he takes out the through the party room and through Parlia­ fuse, puts in the extra power point and ment. replaces the fuse, and then submits a test notice to the relevant supply authority, which Mr. FRAWLEY (Murrumba) (11.18 p.m.): tests the work in its own good time. As a member of the Electrical Trades Union for 20 years and a certificated electrical Most supply authorities know that elec­ mechanic, I rise to defend the electricians tricians are competent men. After a while of North Queensland who were maligned by they realise that an electrician is not the type the honourable member for Cairns. Some of man who does a shoddy job. It is only of the things that he said tonight shocked when a new electrician enters its area that the me. It is obvious that he did not listen to supply authority has to carry out a check, but the Minister's introductory speech. If he nine times out of 10 it would not find any­ did, he certainly was not briefed correctly. thing wrong at all. He said-and those who take the trouble The honourable member for Cairns made a to read the report of his speech tomorrow bad mistake, either inadvertently or deliber­ will know that he said it-that a common ately, when he denigrated electricians by fault of electricians in North Queensland is claiming that some did shoddy jobs. There is to leave bare joints. He said that when no need whatever for inspectors to go to the speaking about doing away with installation expense of examining one or two additions to inspectors, and again he was not quite correct. any installations. I can see nothing wrong No electrician worth his salt-and the hon­ with inspecting new installations before they ourable member for Bulimba will bear me are connected to the power supply. out in this-ever leaves a bare joint in an active or a neutral wire. The only joint I do not intend to speak any further to ever left bare would be in the earth wire, the motion. I have made these comments to because under the rules of the Standards let people know that electricians are com­ Association of Australia, the earth wire must petent persons and do not need to be stood be left bare where there is a joint so it can over all the time by inspectors when they be seen that it has been soldered. carry out a simple addition to an installation. The honourable member for Cairns also An Honourable Member: Why are you claimed that switches were put in the negative speaking without notes? or neutral wire instead of the active wire. Even if an electrician were drunk, he would Mr. FRAWLEY: I don't need any notes; not do that. Electricians are trained to I know what I am talking about. I don't do these jobs properly, and I do not believe carry a brief for the Trades Hall or anybody that the holder of a certificate of competency else. as an electrician would be guilty of that. Mr. Lane: Are you still a member of the Nearly all the complaints of faulty work­ E.T.U.? manship arise from the work of amateur electricians-plumbers, painters, or car­ Mr. FRAWLEY: No, I am not; I resigned. penters-and I know many of them who I was not kicked out of the union. I resigned, do their own work and never get the job and I paid my union dues all the time. inspected. I certainly do not believe for one moment that any of these things occur in Mr. BYRNE (Belmont) (11.24 p.m.): No­ the electrical trade. one who listened to the speeches of honour­ able members this evening could be blamed I listened carefully to the Minister's intro­ for thinking that Queensland was a federa­ ductory speech, and I agree with him that tion of States and that each of us carried a there is no need for installation inspectors to brief for a certain part of Queensland, inspect every single addition or alteration to whether it be South-east Queensland, Bris­ an installation. Inspectors should examine any bane, Central Queensland, Western Queens­ new installation before it is connected to the land or North Queensland. This sort of power supply, because sometimes electricians pleasant exercise in parochialism and the do make small mistakes. However, every myopic vision of some honourable members electrician tests his own work for safety. I tend, from the public's point of view, to cloud agree with the Minister's suggestion that in the issues in the Bill. alterations or additions to any installation the electrician who does the job is quite com­ When we talk about raising so much money petent to conduct the test himself. from a certain mineral or in the minerals As the honourable member for Windsor industry, or about raising so much money in said, an addition to an installation is usually various industries in North Queensland, either one light or one power point. An Western Queensland or anywhere else, we are electrician who is called in to add a power merely being facetious. The major revenue point to a circuit checks firstly to ensure coming to any State is derived from its income that the circuit will not be overloaded by tax, and, although the productivity of the the addition of that extra power point before State plays the essential part in that, the fact installing it. He cannot leave the power is that everyone in the State pays for every­ point disconnected, because when he pulls thing that eventually comes back into the out the fuse he deadens the rest of the State. 462 Electricity Bill [14 SEPTEMBER 1976] Electricity Bill

The first principle of the Bill is that it The people of Brisbane pay a certain tariff provides for a rationalisation scheme for the for their electricity. I think the effects can whole of Queensland, not merely North be overestimated when looked at over 15 Queensland, Central Queensland, Western years. vVhat the people of Brisbane want Queensland or Brisbane. The formation and to know is what will be the immediate effect establishment of a grid system, the neces­ on them in terms of specific amounts this sity of having a legal framework in a year, next year and the year after. In regionalised electricity industry and the need other words, will they find, as intimated by to update the law in relation to the use of the Brisbane City Council, that electricity electricity are the more fundamental points tariffs increase by 50 per cent in 12 months? that we must view. Will they suddenly be faced with an enor­ mous increase in costs? These matters have The creation of a grid allows the State to not been explained sufficiently in this place provide any area within the State at any or outside. The public have a definite con­ point in time with sufficient electricity to cern about them because no-one has explained serve the purposes of that area, whether or the situation to them. not there are certain conflicts, industrial or mechanical, in other parts of the State. A The Brisbane City Council has a very solid striving towards that achievement must be of argument. It wants to retain control of a benefit to the community. Similarly, this public utility which offers a political benefit concept of regionalisation enables the imple­ to it and is a source of economic benefit. It mentation of economies of scale. I point out is important that the economic result concern­ that all economies of scale which are sought ing the purchase of electricity be clearly stated by large-scale development eventually have here for the people. Unless that is done an in-built infrastructure cost that is normally clearly, the Brisbane City Council will be a wastage. Without very strict control on the able to continue with its politicising of the infrastructure cost in the development of a matter, and perhaps will be able to sway very large body, wastage is incurred which some away from something which can bene­ must eventually be passed on to the consumer. fit the people of Queensland generally. Because the figures are not clearly stated, While I can visualise the advantages from the profitability presently experienced by the establishment of a grid pattern and the the Brisbane City Council by the use of the economy of scale envisaged in the Bill, I computer and its subsidising of other areas believe from the outline presented to us by through consolidated revenue, thanks to the the Minister that excessive power is to be profitability of the electricity utility, appears given to the commissioner. I look forward to the public to be a loss. There is also to perusing the Bill while it lies on the a loss of a certain amount represented by table and to the debate at the second-reading subsidies passed over to other areas from stage. I hope that the commissioner's power consolidated revenue, and the Brisbane people will be examined extensively by honourable appear to be going to pay markedly members so that it may be sorted out to increased tariffs. the satisfaction of Parliament. In addition, because of the subsidies ~he I shall now refer to a matter that I have Brisbane City Council appears to be makmg raised privately with honourable members. towards costs elsewhere, the ratepayers are This concerns a major area of contention in also faced with an increase in rates. So, Brisbane. The arguments put forward by unless it is clearly stated from the point of the Brisbane City Council are that Big view of the Brisbane public just how it will Brother State Government is trying to take affect them economically today, in six over some of the Brisbane City Council's months' time, in 12 months' time and in two powers and that the council holds a public years' time, that is, what it will necessarily utility which it says is profitable. It is mean in relation to rate increases or the profitable in two senses. Although the additional revenue that the Brisbane City Brisbane City Council presumably is not Council wi11 have to find-- meant to make a profit from a public utility and thereafter transfer the profit to Mr. Hartwig: What about the freight pro­ other areas of responsibility, it is clear from fits from North Queensland? council reports that the council has made a profit from its electricity utility and has Mr. BYRNE: The honourable member is transferred it, through consolidated revenue, right off the point. I am asking a to other areas. As that seems to be the case, question-- a burden is imposed on the council which should be rationalised for the ratepayers Mr. Hartwig: You don't want t0 hear of Brisbane. I seek clarification on this about that, do you? matter from the Minister because it appears to me that the profitability experienced by An Opposition Member: Who made you the Brisbane City Council, firstly, with its a Minister, Hartwig? computer and, secondly, with its electricity undertaking, which is transferred to con­ The CHAIRMAN: Order! The member solidated revenue, enables the council to for Callide is not in his usual place. He is subsidise other services given to the people breaching Rule 6 of Standing Orders by of Brisbane. being where he is. Electricity Bill (14 SEPTEMBER 1976] Electricity Bill 463

Mr. BYRNE: If he can find his seat, I very parochial in their approach. I have will be very happy to answer his question been taken to task by some honourable The point I wish to make, for the benefit members who felt that I was classifying of the honourable member for Ca11ide if he power stations as belonging to particular is sufficiently au fait with the situation to areas of Queensland. The whole purpose of understand what I am trying to say, is that this Bill is to bring about a rationalisation of I am not in any sense criticising the pro­ the generation of electricity, indicating that posals that have been made. I am simply we believe that all power stations in Queens­ asking for a olear statement in economic land, wherever they are situated, belong to terms, from the point of view of the public the people of this State and to the electricity in Brisbane, as to what it is going to cost industry. them. I do not believe that it will cost It rather amused me that the same people them the enormous ,amount that the Brisbane who took me to task because of my claim City Council makes out. I think it is im­ that the Gladstone Power Station will enab~e portant that the public be made aware of cheaper electricity to be supplied to Bris­ the situation; that it be implanted clearly in bane and that if Brisbane had to rely on the their minds-and also in the mind of the West Moreton station it would have dearer honourable member for Callide-just what electricity-and they are facts-criticised amount in increased tariffs and rates the me for mentioning those things and straight people are going to have to face in the away raised the ultimate effect this Bill will ensuing years because of this change-over. have on the city of Brisbane. They immedi­ Mr. Hartwig: Would you believe that one ately became parochial and dealt with the of my constituents-- effect on their own area. Let us be broad in our outlook, as some members have sug­ Mr. llYRNE: I would probably believe gested, and consider Queensland as a whole. anything the honourable member said, and The idea of rationalisation of the generation I am sure that many other honourable mem­ costs of electricity is not new, as was men­ bers in this place would believe him also. tioned by the member for Townsville South. If it would quieten him. honourable mem­ It came into being in North Queensland bers here would probably be prepared to many years ago. believe anything. I think it is fairly import­ If it is desired to isolate a particular ant-and unfortunately the honourable area-and some honourable members are member was not here when I made the first now attempting to isolate Brisbane­ part of my speech-to realise that the in­ isolate the Northern Electric Authority troduction of parochialism is more destruc­ and the Cairns Regional Electricity tive to the implementation of this Bill than Board. If it is desired to consider them anything else. in isolation, the Cairns Regional Electricity The third point I wish to raise-the first Board can be supplied by the output of point dealt with the power of the commis­ two hydro stations, the capital cost of which sioner and the second related to the transfer has nearly been met. So that the operating of the profitability of the Brisbane City cost of those stations is minimal and the Council and the effect it will have on the cost of bulk supply electricity to the whole individual consumer and ratepayer in Bris­ of the Cairns Regional Electricity Board bane-deals with where the south-eastern would be only a fraction of the cost of region will be centred. Because of bulk supply electricity to any other area employment and other related factors I in Queensland. would hope that the centre will con­ tinue to be in the Brisbane area, and that The people in the Cairns area were big it will not be moved out of that enough to agree to amalgamation with the area, creating shifts or ohanges in the Townsville Regional Electricity Board and employment population, as the effect of that the Mackay Regional Electricity Board to on the over-all Brisbane community could be constitute the Northern Electric Authority. most damaging. I would very much appreci­ This resulted in a uniform tariff throughout ate an assurance to the people of Brisbane that entire region. that Brisbane will be maintained as the Surely if the people of Cairns could agree administrative authority and base for the that a uniform electricity charge should south-eastern region. apply to Mt. Garnet, Chillagoe and even up Having made those three points and to Cooktown; if the people of Townsville appreciating the effect that this will have could agree that a uniform electricity charge on the people of Queensland in the short­ should apply to Winton, Hughenden and term and also in the long-term, which can Richmond; and if the people of Mackay only be beneficial, I look forward very much could agree years ago that the same charge to seeing the Bill after it is printed so that should apply to Proserpine, Nebo, Mirani that we can discuss it in further detail at and all of the other outlying areas, this the second-reading stage. concept can be extended right throughout Queensland. The Capricornia Regional Elec­ Hon. R. E. CAMM (Whitsunday-Minis­ tricity Board recently took over the central­ ter for Mines and Energy) (11.33 p.m.), western generating authorities and is gradu­ in reply: I thank honourable members for ally extending a uniform tariff right throug:h­ their contributions. Some, of course, were out its area. 464 Electricity Bill (14 SEPTEMBER 1976] Electricity Bill

Let no-one say I have claimed that any over the years. There are many places in power station belongs to any particular area Queensland-the honourable member for Red­ of Queensland. All power stations belong lands mentioned some within 35 miles of to the electricity industry in Queensland. Brisbane-where assistance would be needed All distribution of electricity should be to meet the capital cost of reticulating elec­ shared also among the people of Queens­ tricity to them. laud-not one isolated pocket, say, of Cairns, Mackay or Brisbane. Quite a number of members spoke on this issue. I shall deal with each quickly and I say to honourable members who want reserve more detailed answers to some ques­ to be parochial that as the people of Cairns tions till the second reading. The Leader of are prepared to share the advantage of a the Opposition believes that there should be hydro station, and as Gladstone is prepared uniform tariffs but he wants them brought to share its low-cost electricity, surely the about by means of subsidies paid by the people in South-east Queensland should share whole of Queensland. I remind those who the advantage of its concentrated population, have championed the cause of the Brisbane resulting in a lower tariff being charged in City Council that many people who work in this part of Queensland. This is what the the city of Brisbane live in the outer suburbs Bill is all about. It will bring about a in shires such as Pine Rivers, Moreton, Beau­ rationalisation of bulk supply of electricity desert and even Redlands. Those people do to all consumers in Queensland and will not have the advantages enjoyed by the little gradually bring about a uniform tariff all coterie of people who live within the boun­ over Queensland, as has been effected in daries of the city of Brisbane. When people the central and nothern regions of our State. speak in terms of isolating the Brisbane City I have said before-and I repeat it-that Council, let them remember that many who during the next 12 months there will be work in the city do not live in Brisbane. They no increase in electricity tariffs in South­ are in effect ostracising those people and east Queensland as a result of this Bill. denying them the advantages enjoyed by the Any increase in charges for electricity will population of Brisbane. be brought about solely because of increased The Leader of the Opposition also quoted costs of coal used for the generation of at some length a report of the Auditor­ electricity. There will be no effort by this General to show that one authority had Government to bring about the uniform tariff deficits in 23 of 28 years. It will be readily concept within the next 12 months and the admitted that the Capricornia Regional Elec­ people can be assured of that. Naturally tricity Board had difficulty over those years. there will be increases, because costs are Many of its problems were caused by the rising all the time. These increases will be building of a new power station, the lack of a brought about year by year over a period water supply at Callide in the drought years of 15 years. and the extension of its responsibilities into It has been said by my predecessor­ far-flung areas. and I have no reason to doubt it because it must have been worked out for him-that it However, the Leader of the Opposition could result in an ultimate 13 per cent failed to acknowledge that last year that increase over the next 15 years. If. we do board cleared its accumulated deficit and not bring about rationalisation of the gen­ took over the overdraft of the central-western eration of electricity in Queensland and leave generating authorities. It cleared that over­ the generation as it is, with three different draft recently and still made a substantial generating authorities, the people of this part surplus. A congratulatory note was added of Queensland will be paying far more than in the audit inspector's report, and this was a rise of 13 per cent in the next 15 years, fully publicised in the Press. If the Leader because the price of coal in this area will of the Opposition wants to criticise a body increase enormously. of men for what they have done in the last 25 years, let him have the courtesy to ack­ Mr. Hartwig! lOO per cent. nowledge that they have now repaid all their debts and last year they made a substantial Mr. CAMM: More than 100 per cent; profit. it would be nearly 400 per cent. That has been worked out and the figures are here to The Leader of the Opposition also men­ prove it. Bringing in rationalisation of bulk tioned the centralising of fund-raising in one supply will enable us to gradually bring about body. This was brought about some years ago a uniform tariff. when the distributing authorities in Queens­ Much has been said by many speakers land could not raise their loan allocations about the subsidising of electricity tariffs. and they appealed to the State Electricity Subsidisation can be used for the capital Commission to raise money for them. The expenditure involved in the reticulation of commission then became the sole fund-raising electricity to outlying areas. But the Govern­ authority for all the regional areas. Since then ment does not believe that the people of they have never failed to reach their loan Queensland should have to subsidise elec­ allocations. tricity tariffs. The industry as a whole should Comparisons between the positions in Mel­ be able to absorb all those costs and bring bourne, Sydney and Brisbane are not valid. about a uniform price in the tariff structure Melbourne has nine local authorities as well Electricity Bill [14 SEPTEMBER 1976] Electricity Bill 465 as the State Government Electricity Com­ Mr. CAMM: The S.E.A. cannot apply for mission of Victoria operating in the metro­ an increase in tariffs unless it supplies politan area. Sydney has four electricity sup­ documentary proof to the commissioner that pliers and the county council. Their elec­ these increases are warranted. tricity charges naturally will be high because there is a lot of underground work involved There was talk about taking away from in the extension of electricity in Melbourne the Brisbane City Council the power to and Sydney. As the major parts of the cities generate electricity, but we say that it is expand, the responsibility of putting mains better to have one authority administering underground is extended and that work is the electricity generation industry in this very, very expensive. If, as the Leader of State and a number of distributing authori­ the OppOsition claimed, Brisbane has cut costs, ties rather than an authority such as the that is a great illustration of the advantages council, which has a multiplicity of depart­ of centralisation. Yet he criticised it when ments to run and cannot concentrate on one it comes to generation. particular undertaking as can a separate distribution authority. All that the Leader Mr. Burns: Do you support centralisation? of the Opposition seemed to be concerned Mr. CAMM: Yes, of course we do in this about in his arguments was allowing the respect. As far as a public utility respon­ Brisbane City Council to retain control of sible for electricity is concerned, we support the distribution of electricity in the Brisbane the centralised control of the generating area. He did not go on and talk about the authority. We do not say this applies to rest of Queensland. distribution. Distribution still remains with I would say that the honourable member the regional boards, and seven regional for Kurilpa displayed a knowledge of elec­ boards are still retained. tricity distribution in Queensland. I say to Mr. Bums: It will be controlled from him that the equalisation of tariffs will come Brisbane through the commissioner. about slowly and I can assure him, as I indicated earlier, that there will be no Mr. CAMM: The commissioner has no increase brought about by the equalisation of more power under this Bill than he possesses tariffs. There will be no increase in the at the present time. The Leader of the domestic power price within 12 months as a Opposition should look at the Bill. The result of this Bill. commissioner has the power to fix the price for the bulk supply of electricity. He has Mr. Houston: You did that when you took the power to fix the retail price to the the powerhouses off the council. distributing boards. He can fix the tariffs Mr. CAMM: I think the Brisbane City after an approach by the distributing boards Council was very pleased to get rid of the themselves for an increase. Someone has to power stations at that time. That was just do it. He cannot arbitrarily go out and say before I became a Minister and I remember to the regional boards, "You must charge the arguments that my predecessor had-- this figure." It can happen only after the boards have asked for an increase. That Mr. Houston: You conned the council increase has to be supported by documentary into it. proof that their costs have increased to such Mr. CAMM: I do not think we did. Does an extent that an increase is warranted. But the honourable member think that Clem I stress this: any increase brought about in Jones was so lacking in knowledge that we any tariff in Queensland to help in the could con him into it? He said that; I rationalisation of the retail price of electri­ didn't. The honourable member for Bulimba city, that is, to bring about uniformity of indicated the present philosophy of the Labor tariff charges, must be assessed and agreed Party: look after Brisbane and to hell with to by the Minister, and the Minister will the rest of Queensland. certainly take it to Cabinet and get its endorsement before he makes a final decision. Mr. Houston: I didn't. The Leader of the Opposition quoted the Mr. CAMM: That is just what the honour­ recent increase in electricity prices. I stress able member's contribution amounted to. that these have been brought about solely He claimed that we condemned his idea of by increased costs in the generation of subsidies. We did not. electricity and to some degree by increased reticulation costs. From his criticism he Mr. Houston: You did. obviously has no faith in the representatives of local authorities on these distributing Mr. CAMM: M! we did was point out boards. They are responsible men appointed to the .people of Queensland just what the by the various local authorities. honourable member's idea of subsidies would cost. We said it would have cost Mr. Burns: How many local authority $6,000,000 in the year it was suggested and people are on the S.E.A.? $9,000,000 the next time. It would now cost $13 000 000 to bring about a uniform tariff Mr. CAMM: I am talking about the by ~ea~s of subsidy. The . Gc:vernment di? regional boards. not condemn the idea; we md1cated what !t Mr. Burns: The S.E.A. was the one I was would cost. Now we are endeavouring to talking about there. bring about rationalisation. 466 Electricity Bill (14 SEPTEMBER 1976} Electricity Bill

As indicated earlier, the Government The honourable member also seems to believes that the electricity industry itself agree that any authority can make a profit should finance the equalisation and that we in its electricity undertaking and channel that should not adopt the parochial attitude that profit into other activities under its control. certain people should enjoy a lower tariff because there is a concentration of popula­ Mr. Houston: What has been wrong with tion here, a hydro station in another place, that? or a big station there. We believe that we should look after the electricity industry over Mr. CAMM: Does the honourable mem­ the whole State. ber for Bulimba mean to say that the elec­ tricity authority in the Capricornia region Mr. Houston: No, you don't. You make can make a big profit and channel the money the people of Brisbane pay for it­ into some other undertaking in that region? $13,000,000! Mr. Houston: I did not say that. Mr. CAMM: The honourable gentleman admits that he likes the idea of centralisa­ Mr. CAMM: The way the honourable tion of the generation authority. member is talking about it and howling about Mr. Houston: That is right. it, I thought it amounted to millions. Mr. Houston: Are you objecting to the Mr. CAMM: Yes, that is right-also the city council making a profit? equalising of the bulk supply price. But when it comes to sharing other advantages Mr. CAI\1M: No, I am not objecting to it. because of the size or growth of population in a particular area, he does not believe in Mr. Houston interjected. any sharing. The CHAIRMAN: Order! The honourable The honourable gentleman also spoke member for Bulimba is allowed to speak to about private deals with industry in Central the Bill again at the second reading. Queensland. I say that those deals with the mining companies and big industries in Cen­ Mr. Houston: I sure will. tral Queensland clre the most lucrative deals that the Government has in that part of The CHAIRMAN: Order! l &uggest that the generating system of Queensland. the honourable gentleman restrain himself Mr. Houston: Are you prepared to give till them. us those figures in this Chamber? Mr. CAMM: I am objecting to any author­ Mr. CAMM: No. ity using the electricity industry to fleece consumers of electricity in order to subsidise Mr. Houston: Of course you aren't! some of its more uneconomic undertakings. The electricity industry should retain all the Mr. CAMM: We do not allow those fig­ profit it can make from its undertakings. It ures to be published. is its own profit and should be channelled Mr. Houston: Why shou1d we trust you? back into the electricity industry, not used to subsidise some uneconomic branch in Mr. CAMM: There is no need to. It is whatever it might be-the Brisbane City up to the honourable gentleman. If he has Council or one of the regional boards. such a narrow attitude that he thinks that Mr. Houston: You take money from the representatives of local authorities in Cen­ punters on the T.A.B. and use it for other tral Queensland-and they dominate the purposes. generating and distributing authorities there -are so lacking in intelligence that they win Mr. CAMM: That is a tax. It is totally fix a price that is below the generating cost different. in that area-- Mr. Houston interjected. Mr. HOUSTON: I rise to a point of order. The Minister, perhaps through lack of know­ Mr. CAMM: The honourable gentleman ledge, has said-- now claims that the operations of the T.A.B. bear some similarity to the distribution of The CHAIRMAN: Order! Just state your electricity in Queensland. Electricity is a point of order. necessity, something that people need, some­ Mr. HOUSTON: The point of order is thing that they have grown used to; yet he that the price of electricity from the Glad­ has the audacity to say that the electricity stone Power Station to certain possible con­ industry can be likened to the operations of sumers was fixed by legislation, not by any the T.A.B. councils. Mr. Houston: As far as you are con­ cerned-- The CHAIRMAN: Order! There is no valid point of order. The CHAIRMAN: Order! The honourable member for Bulimba wiH now desist from Mr. CAMM: That is a very funny one. constant interjection. Electricity Bill (14 SEPTEMBER 1976) Electricity Bill 467

Mr. CAMM: I should like to impress once The honourable member for Carnarvon is more upon the honourable member for another member of my committee who Everton that the Bill will bring about the worked hard in analysing the Bill and in rationalisation of the electricity industry so putting forward sound suggestions. . !fe has that all the people of Queensland can have an intimate knowledge of the proviswns of the advantages conferred by population den­ the Bill. sity and cheaper generation costs, wherever The honourable member for Ithaca asked a power station might be situated. Those the cost of coal to the various power stations. advantages of cheap hydro power, cheap The cost varies in accordance with the quality coal and cheap distribution costs flowing from of coal and with the quantity supplied to any population density should be shared. The generating station. However, I ~hall give Bill wiH eventually bring about such a him the current cost of coal supplied to the sharing; it will bring about an equalisation various power stations in Queensland. I can in 'lhe tariff structure. say with certainty that the dearest coal fed into any power station in Queensland at As I indicated earlier, the Bill will be present comes from South-east Queensland. printed tonight, circulated and allowed to lie The very cheap coal will be going into the on the table until after the Budget debate. Gladstone Power Station in the very near This will enable people to examine it. I future. The honourable member made a have indicated that I am prepared to listen very logical and sensible contribution to the to suggestions. I would ask, however, that debate. anyone requesting any amendment to the Bill should put his request in writing. I The honourable member for Townsville would hate to accede to an oral request and South was associated with the Townsville City then be told subsequently that the amend­ Council when the Townsville Regional Elec­ ment was not what was asked for. The Bill tricity Board was formed. My mind goes will be amended, provided submissions are back to something similar when the Mackay made in writing and are agreed to by this Regional Electricity Board was formed. He Parliament. readily agrees that public utilities such as electricity authorities should be controlled I appreciate the sound knowledge of the uniformly. This necessitates control through honourable member for Callide of the elec­ boards, as is proposed in the Bill. tricity industry, both in the generation and I point out to the honourable member for distribution of power. For many years he South Brisbane that the distributing boards was chairman of the Capricornia Regional have a majority of local authority represen­ Electricity Board and was associated with tatives. I make it quite clear to him that the the generation and distribution of electricity. distributing boards are dominated by repre­ He readily admits that the people of Brisbane sentatives of local authorities, one of whom should share in cheaper electricity from the shall be the chairman. So the chairman is a power station in Gladstone. I thank him member of a local authority and the local for his contribution to the debate and also authorities have a majority on the board. for the work that he has done as chairman of my mines and energy committee, whose The honourable member asked whether the members helped formulate this Bill. construction of the Gladstone Power Station was premature. It certainly was not p~e­ As I indicated to other honourable mem­ mature. Recently we ordered two new umts bers, I inform the honourable member for in addition to the four ordered when the con­ Clayfield that the Bill will lie on the table tract was first let. The two additional units so that it can be perused by experts. He will be brought into operation as time goes can put forward any suggestions that he by. We have also had to make a decision on wishes. a new pump storage electricity station on the Wivenhoe Dam. The honourable member has talked about the sharing of administrative costs between I thank the honourable member for Bel­ the Brisbane City Council and other under­ yando for his contribution. He appreciated takings. If administration costs for the city the value of bulk rates for industry. He of Brisbane area are a certain figure, and knows that in his area, with its big coal­ if the administration is brought into a wider mining operations, the bulk supply of elec­ concept to cover a greater population, surely tricity to the huge draglines is a very profit­ the cost per person will be lower than at able undertaking for the power station. The present. This is something that will be honourable member is another champion of brought about. The administration costs the country people of Queensland. for the whole of South-east Queensland will be less than the administration costs of Bris­ Apparently the honourable member for bane at present-not forgetting, of course, Port Curtis did not listen properly. He may increased costs, wages and other factors. have some excuse in that he is a newly elected member. I emphasise that all regional boards Mr. Houston: You are starting to make are dominated by local authority representa­ excuses already. tives. A generating board is more of a busi­ ness organisation. It is not associated with Mr. CAMM: We have to make excuses the distribution of electricity, individual indus­ when costs are Increasing at their present rate. tries or anything like that. As a generating 468 Electricity Bill (14 SEPTEMBER 1976] Electricity Bill

authority it looks after the business operations The member for Redlands mentioned the of the whole generating system of Queens­ use of off-peak power. In North Queensland land. The actual dealings with the people electricity used for night irrigation during and the distribution are handled by the dis­ off-peak periods is charged for at a far lower tributing boards, which are dominated by rate. With the interconnection of all the local authority representatives. generating stations, the off -peak loads will be used in the pump storage at ·the Wivenhoe The honourable member spoke about Dam. That is the principle of a pump storage: Gladstone in the early 1950s and the develop­ in off-peak periods the excess electricity is ment that took place. In the early 1950s used to pump the water up into a huge dam Gladstone was in the doldrums. It was a and, when the demand for electricity seasonal town depending on one major meat­ increases, the water passes back through a works. It was a very good port without any system of generators. This is the way a exports. It was dying. I remember passing uniform output is maintained from our through Gladstone after the meatworks closed generating stations. down just shortly after I became a member of Parliament. It was shocking to hear the He also mentioned power for islands in consternation expressed by the people of his electorate. I think I referred to that a Gladstone at what was to happen to the while ago in connection with isolated areas. town. Development did not take place in This is one place where, I feel, subsidies the early J 950s but with the advent of this would be of some advantage. This is some­ Government, which was responsible for the thing we will be working on. Any subsidy construction of the largest alumina plant in that is available in the industry could go the world, the opening of the coal-fields in the towards the alleviation of capital charges hinterland of Gladstone and the development entailed in the distribution of electricity to of Gladstone as the major port for Central outlying areas. Queensland. The honourable member should not try to claim credit for anything that The member for Flinders pointed out the happened. contribution that North and Central Queens­ land make to the economy of the State. I Mr. Prest: It was in 1950 that the con­ think it is logical and reasonable to intro­ veyor-belt system was put in. duce that. Some people say that it is not reasonable, but that part of Queensland, Mr. CAMM: In 1950 Thiess Bros were where we are looking for uniform tariffs, supplying some coal to Victoria. At one does contribute a good deal to the economy time Victoria contemplated importing coal of the State, to the benefit of people living from India and Thiess Bros supplied steam­ in all parts of Queensland. ing coal to Victoria. A small conveyor belt was installed but the big export industry As I indicated to the honourable member began after 1957. Exports to Victoria ceased for Wynnum, tariff increases will be applied because the New South Wales miners decided very gradually. They could amount to to go back to work and produce coal. The about 13 per cent spread over 15 years. Gladstone development did not take place in However, it does not mean that Brisbane will the early 1950s but in the late 1950s. be the only part of Queensland facing increases as a result of rationalisation and The honourable member for Port Curtis uniform tariffs. Increases could spread out said that the coal owners should justify as far as the range. In fact, the whole of applications for increased prices. They do South-east Queensland could be affected. The that. They have to submit documented proof way some people talk one could be pardoned to the Coal Board, which has at its disposal for believing that the increases will affect accountants and economists, who assess the only the city of Brisbane. Many people will costs submitted by the coal owners. It is be affected by the uniform tariff. As I upon these costs that the Coal Board fixes indicated earlier, if we do not introduce this the price of coal consumed in Queensland. rationalisation of generation and the inter­ The honourable member also criticised the connection of our generating system, the fact that the bulk supply tariff was cheaper people here will be paying a higher price than the domestic tariff. It would certainly be ,then they would be by getting power from cheaper. As the honourable member for Central Queensland. Belyando said, if industry did not enjoy reasonable electricity charges we would have The member for Merthyr pointed out how no industries in Queensland. That is com­ the Brisbane City Council had used the mon practice throughout the world. The electricity consumers to subsidise other bulk supply charges offered to big industries council undertakings. He is quite right. He give the most lucrative returns to the dis­ expressed concern for people in his area. tributing boards in Queensland. I would, too, if I represented an area like his. I am not being critical of him or of The member for Townsville outlined the other members of Brisbane who have expres­ system of rationalisation within the electricity sed concern. They are looking after the industry in North Queensland, indicating interests of their constituents in expressing that he has a sound knowledge of how that concern. However, to those members I arose. He is a supporter of this Bill would say, "Wait 'till the Bill is printed. because he can see the same benefits flowing If after you have examined it thoroughly to all the people of the State. you still feel that greater disadvantage is Electricity Bill [14 & 15 SEPTEMBER 1976] Art Unions &c., Regs. 1976 469 suffered by the people in your area Resolution reported. than by other people in Queensland, we will hav~ a look at it." However, I think they realise-and the honourable member for FIRST READING Merthyr readily admitted it-that Queensland Bill presented and, on motion of Mr. should be considered as a whole. He is one Camm, read a first time. wh_o criti~ised n:e for introducing a parochial attitude m talkmg about the generation of electricity. I raise that just to point out [Wednesday, 15 September 1976] how silly it is to regard the generation of electricity as belonging to one centre. That is just as silly as regarding one area of ART UNIONS AND AMUSEMENTS queensland as having some privileges because REGULATIONS 1976 ~~ h::

Mr. WRIGHT: I like the Premier to come Mr. Lickiss: Let us be fair about this. You in because tomorrow morning at question are trying to make a speech, but as you are time we shall see who is talking a lot of not going to move the motion there will not hot air when we find out who has misled be a right of reply. I challenge you to move the House. for the disallowance of these regulations. The point that I was making was that Mr. WRIGHT: We have accepted the fact many members were anxious to have the that the Minister has now covered most of regulations changed, and pressure was placed the points that were originally part of this on the Minister and Cabinet to do something motion for disallowance. But I believe the about it. It was only two weeks ago that the point has to be made that there is a need same Minister said that there should not be the worry that there was. In fact, he tried to change Regulation 16 because it does not to explain his position by some releases in include the National Fitness Organisation. the "Telegraph" in which he went over the I would hope that if the Minister is dinky­ regulations as he thought them to be. Yet die about his efforts to overcome these prob­ only a week later he reintroduced new regu­ lems he will do something about Regulation lations that changed the whole idea. 16. Mr. Lickiss: You are changing what I Mr. Lickiss: The National Fitness Organi­ said. sation is a semi-government department. Do Mr. WRIGHT: The Minister can reply you think it is feasible to make it a charitable later. However, it is on record that the organisation pnrsuant to Regulation 16? Minister tried to make out that there was no need to change the regulations, although in Mr. WRIGHT: In answer to the Minister fact he did so. I accept what the Minister I say that all the organisations listed are not has done but I do not accept the way in charitable groups. Regulation 16(b) includes which it was done. It was well known that organisations with a "charitable purpose" or the motion for disallowance was going to be a "community purpose". Surely the National called on for debate. Fitness Organisation comes within the "com­ There are still some problems to be faced. munity purpose" category. A motion was Regulation 16 lists a number of organisa­ moved at a recent State council meeting of tions. There are hospitals, schools, charitable the National Fitness Organisation to have it groups and so on. But the National Fitness Organisation, for instance, is not listed. included within this group. I hope that the There is no need to persevere with a motion Minister does not continue his debate in this of disallowance merely to have that group way, but instead takes a positive look at the included, but it is totally wrong to have such point I am making and includes the National a semi-government group, funded by the Fitness Organisation in the categories listed. Government, that will now be paying 5 per If the Queensland Police-Citizens Youth cent on its net proceeds. Originally it would have been 6 per cent on gross proceeds. That Welfare Association is worthy of listing in was changed to 6 per cent of net proceeds. Regulation 16, so, too, is the National Fit­ Now it is 5 per cent. ness Organisation.

Mr. Lickiss: Did you ask for that? There is one other point I wish to make, and that is that we will have repeated amend­ Mr. WRIGHT: Yes, as the Minister ments to these regulations unless firm clarifica­ knows. tion is given to the police and, moreover, to the various organisations concerned. We Mr. Lickiss: You did not. I put it to you have had three lots of these forms produced that you are building a case to try to show so far and they have all been incorrect. that you are the one who has achieved this. We had no representations from you what­ I hope that the Minister will now take soever, or from your party. it upon himself to clarify the rights and responsibilities of the various groups. As I Mr. WRIGHT: If the Minister wants to said at the outset, he has overcome many of make a fight of it, I will say that I was the the problems-though I do not agree with one who released it to "Sunday Sun", and it the way he did it because I believe he pre­ exposed the situation. I believe it is a victory empted the debate that could have taken for that newspaper, too, as well as the place-and for that reason I will not go organisations that supported us. Many organi­ ahead with the disallowance motion standing sations wrote to the Premier, the Minister in my name on the Business Paper. for Justice and their own members of Par­ liament on this issue. Schools, p. and c. Motion, by leave, withdrawn. associations and charitable groups of all sorts in the community made representations The House adjourned at 12.21 a.m. on it. (Wednesday).