Vol. 599 Wednesday, No. 6 23 March 2005

DI´OSPO´ IREACHTAI´ PARLAIMINTE PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES

DA´ IL E´ IREANN

TUAIRISC OIFIGIU´ IL—Neamhcheartaithe (OFFICIAL REPORT—Unrevised)

Wednesday, 23 March 2005.

Leaders’ Questions ………………………………1597 Ceisteanna—Questions Taoiseach …………………………………1605 Request to move Adjournment of Da´il under Standing Order 31 ………………1609 Order of Business ………………………………1610 Tribunals of Inquiry: Motion ……………………………1617 Ceisteanna—Questions (resumed) Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children Priority Questions ……………………………1647 Other Questions ……………………………1662 Adjournment Debate Matters ……………………………1674 Tribunals of Inquiry: Motion (resumed) ………………………1675 Irish Language: Statements ……………………………1686 Private Members’ Business Fur Farming (Prohibition) Bill 2004: Second Stage (resumed) ………………1720 Adjournment Debate Hospital Services ………………………………1749 Airport Development Projects …………………………1753 Road Traffic Offences ……………………………1756 Garda Investigations ……………………………1759 Questions: Written Answers ……………………………1765 1597 1598

DA´ IL E´ IREANN Mr. J. O’Keeffe: With headlines.

———— The Ta´naiste: An enormous amount of legis- lation in this area has been passed in recent years De´ Ce´adaoin, 23 Ma´rta 2005. and the budget of the Garda Sı´ocha´na has been Wednesday, 23 March 2005. increased by 75%. I cannot advise on what homeowners or property owners should be ———— entitled to do or not to do. However, I have always been a strong fan of the law being tilted Chuaigh an Ceann Comhairle i gceannas ar in favour of the victim, although perhaps it was 10.30 a.m. not always tilted that way in the past. I am aware that when individuals are injured if they trespass ———— on property it is the responsibility of the property owner. There are huge issues in this area. If legal Paidir. changes are required, the Minister for Justice, Prayer. Equality and Law Reform will consider the suggestions made by Deputy Kenny. ———— Mr. Kenny: I agree that the Minister for Leaders’ Questions. Justice, Equality and Law Reform is quick to Mr. Kenny: The continuous spate of break-ins comment in soundbites and that a raft of legis- and burglaries is causing increasing concern lation is proposed by his Department. Last year, throughout the country. Yesterday, a County however, there were 25,000 burglaries in this Mayo farmer was remanded in custody on a mur- country. It is difficult to appreciate the terror and der charge arising from an incident that occurred concern of somebody whose house has been at his home last October. I do not wish to discuss robbed, not to mention the anxiety and fear individual cases but it is important that we discuss caused if one finds somebody in the process of the law relating to homeowners who find them- robbing one’s property or invading one’s home. selves subject to an invasion of their home or to According to English law, a person’s house is a burglary. one’s castle. Article 40.5 of the Constitution The law as it is currently applied places, in the states that the dwelling of a citizen is inviolable. first instance, an obligation on the person whose It is the duty of the Government to enact legis- home is being burgled to retreat or find a method lation that provides protection for citizens. of retreating. If retreat is not possible, the Each night houses are being broken into and homeowner is legally required only to use such families are being terrorised. However, due to the force as he or she believes necessary. In other lack of balance in the law, a father or mother who words, is one to tap an intruder with a five iron? finds an intruder in his or her home is expected A person who discovers a burglar in his or her to retreat and where he or she cannot do so, must house at 4 a.m. is not in a position to anticipate use only such force as is considered necessary or how the courts will determine the position after suitable. If a burglar has a baseball bat and a a year has passed. In the heat of the moment, a homeowner has a shotgun, the homeowner is person whose house or premises is being burgled expected to leave aside the shotgun, get a base- must make a decision either to retreat and leave ball bat and have an equal contest. It is not very the burglars to do their business or to defend his feasible to do something like that at 4 a.m. I ask or her home, property and, in many cases, family. the Ta´naiste to speak to the Minister for Justice, Does the Ta´naiste agree that the law in such cases Equality and Law Reform. This is a matter of is unbalanced against the victim, who must make considerable concern to people all over Ireland. a quick decision in the heat of the moment? Will The law in this case is unbalanced and it should the Government give this matter priority or has be tilted in favour of the victim. The Ta´naiste is it plans to review the law in this regard? in a position to do something about that and I Night after night, people armed with knives are would like to see the Government act quickly breaking into and entering houses for the purpose on it. of feeding their drug addictions, robbing property or, as happened in recent incidents, kidnapping The Ta´naiste: I am always delighted to talk to families for criminal purposes. The law is the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law unbalanced in this area. Does the Government Reform and I will certainly talk to him on this. plan to review the legislation with a view to We have increased the budget of the Garda restoring balance for victims? Sı´ocha´na by 75%. We have provided an additional 1,200 prison places. We have reformed The Ta´naiste: We all share the concern the law in many respects. If there are continuing expressed by Deputy Kenny about the experi- deficiencies, I am certain the Minister would be ences of many citizens in urban and rural areas in happy to examine them with a view to bringing recent times. We have a reforming Minister for forward changes. I would not like to see us Justice, Equality and Law Reform and the law is become a society like that which exists in the US, constantly being reviewed. where guns are so freely available that tragedies 1599 Leaders’ 23 March 2005. Questions 1600

[The Ta´naiste.] missioned the Travers report for shelter and frequently occur like that which we heard about defended the Minister for Health and Children, yesterday. We have the best of both worlds here. Deputy Martin, by claiming that he knew nothing While there are criminal elements here which about it. How can anyone who has read the were behind recent bank robberies and kidnap- Travers report reach that conclusion? How can pings, a large proportion of burglaries is driven the Ta´naiste be happy to serve in Government by the need to feed a drug habit. That is why we with him and his two Ministers of State? Unlike must not spare any effort to deal with the serious the Minister for Health and Children, Deputy drug problems that exist, as they are fuelling Martin, the Ministers of State had the guts to crime throughout the country. admit they knew all about it.

Mr. Rabbitte: I wish to return to the issue of The Ta´naiste: I did not commission the Travers long-stay charges. We do not know what this report to shelter anybody from anything. The cock-up will cost the taxpayer. The Government inquiry was set up on 16 December, long before cannot tell us, but it estimates it could be up to there was any decision by the Supreme Court or \ 2 billion. We have had no political account- even a decision by the President to refer the Bill ability from the Government, while one civil ser- to the Supreme Court. I established the Travers vant has been promoted sideways. As the House inquiry because I became aware on 15 December rises for the Easter recess, the Government is that the report given to me to take to the Cabinet clearly calculating that media interest will wane, was incorrect in some crucial respects. It did not the taxpayer will cough up and nobody will be inform the Government that a letter had been responsible. The Ta´naiste implied political culpa- drafted to be sent to the Attorney General which bility when she stated that systemic mal- was never issued. I felt that was a serious omis- administration did not just involve officials. Now sion on behalf of the Secretary General of my she retreats behind the Travers report for shelter Department. and states that it found no Minister culpable. We did not know the extent of the knowledge Travers found no paper record that states that the in the Department of Health and Children going former Minister for Health and Children, Deputy back to 1976. The Travers report found that the Martin, was sufficiently briefed. However, it is basic decision that caused the problem was that admitted in the report that two Ministers of State made in 1976. At that time, the legal advisors in knew about it. The Minister of State, Deputy the Department cautioned against doing what O’Malley, stated that not only did he know about was done. The error goes back to 1976 and that it, but that he understood that “they would give is why the State is exposed for certain cases, such rise to significant legal, operational, financial and as someone with an unsound mind. That is why political implications.” He went on to state mys- the figures go beyond the Supreme Court figures teriously that the issues involved did not fall of around \500 million and why they might go as within his area of responsibility in the Depart- \ ment, so he never went back to them. He is the high as 2 billion. A total of 316,000 citizens were Minister of State with responsibility for mental resident in these institutions between 1976 and health and there are many people within that 2004. I have already said that there is a serious area. However, I presume he means that the conflict of interest in the report between the Minister for Health and Children, Deputy former Minister, Deputy Martin, and the Sec- Martin, was responsible. We know the Minister of retary General, Mr. Michael Kelly. I have also State, Deputy Callely, knew because the Travers said that I will not adjudicate on a conflict of evi- report states that he told the Taoiseach about it. dence as it would be wrong of me to do so. Mr. However, the Minister claims he did not know. Travers drew his own conclusions and whether Mr. Kelly states that he briefed the Minister we like the report or not, we should all be objec- twice and we know that documents were sent to tive enough to accept an independent report him the night before, spelling out the impli- when we get it. If we do not like what it states, cations. However, the Minister says he never read that is a reflection on us. Mr. Travers stated that them. Yet when the Ta´naiste asked Mr. Kelly to the bulk of the responsibility for what happened prepare a report for her for Cabinet, we know lay in serious failings in public administration. He that Mr. Kelly had a secret meeting with the stated that Ministers should have been more pro- Minister for Health and Children, Deputy bing and should have asked more questions, but Martin. Why would Mr. Kelly want to compare he was in no doubt on where the blame lay. notes with a Minister who knows nothing about I became Minister at the Department of Health it? I am bemused by that and we have had no and Children on 30 September 2004 and I was explanation. The Ta´naiste has made her repu- never briefed either orally or in writing about this tation as a purveyor of high standards in politics. matter by any official at the Department. I find Yet when she found out about all this, she that extraordinary if it was of such concern. In a decided to legislate to make it legal retrospec- memo written for the Government in early tively. When the Supreme Court struck it down, December, the Department maintained that she stated that she welcomed it because it these charges were legally defensible. We all brought clarity to the issue. She then implied in know from the Travers report that could not be this House that Ministers knew. She then com- anyone’s view when we see the legal evidence 1601 Leaders’ 23 March 2005. Questions 1602 that was available to the Department going back The Ta´naiste: That legal advice covers issues nearly 30 years. other than those in long——

Mr. Rabbitte: It is entirely indefensible that the Mr. Rabbitte: Take out the other issues then. Ta´naiste was not correctly and fully briefed. I suggest that the only reason is that there was col- The Ta´naiste: No, because they are lusion at the top political and administrative level intertwined. of the Department not to confront this issue. That is the reason she was not briefed and that is the Mr. Rabbitte: How can they be different? legacy she inherited from the former Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Martin, whom she An Ceann Comhairle: Deputy Rabbitte should now protects. There is no point in giving the allow the Ta´naiste to continue without impression that the Travers report concluded that interruption. Ministers were in the clear. It does no such thing. People who are not familiar with reading senior The Ta´naiste: I dealt with this issue when Civil Service English might be led to believe that. Deputy Rabbitte raised it yesterday but I will It is in black and white that two Ministers of State respond again. The legal advice deals with a knew about the situation and that the Secretary number of issues, including nursing home subven- General talked to the Minister. The Ta´naiste tions and those in other forms of institution. They admits that there is a conflict of evidence between are the subject of legal proceedings which will be the Minister and his former Secretary General. coming before the courts shortly. Whatever about She then tells us piously that she will not adjudi- Deputy Rabbitte or how it might help my popu- cate. By God, she was never slow to adjudicate larity, I am not going to jeopardise the position when she was over here. She never stopped of this State in any legal proceedings, if that is the adjudicating. Now she does not want to adjudi- advice I receive from the Attorney General. The cate when it is obvious that there was collusion tragedy is that the Attorney General’s advice was in the Department at the highest level to avoid not sought going back to 1976—— confronting this issue. They thought it would remain buried but it was raised on the Govern- Mr. Rabbitte: The Ta´naiste is sitting beside the ment side of the House. The Ta´naiste sought to man who did not do it. legislate retrospectively to make it legal. She played well and received great kudos for that. She The Ta´naiste: ——and, particularly, more has a protective shield around her that does not recently. A decision was made at a meeting in apply to the rest of us but at least she confronted December 2003—— the matter. I admit that, but how can she let it lie at that, pushing aside one civil servant for a bill Mr. Rabbitte: It is like an accident and emer- that will cost the taxpayer, according to her, up gency ward over there. to \2 billion? The Minister, Deputy Martin, con- tinues to sit beside her and after all she said in An Ceann Comhairle: Allow the Ta´naiste to Opposition, she is prepared to live with that. continue without interruption please. The Tanaiste: A decision was made at a meet- An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy’s time has ´ ing in December 2003 that the Attorney Gen- long since elapsed. eral’s advice would be sought. Mr. Rabbitte: It is simply unconscionable. I ask Mr. J. O’Keeffe: Put them on a trolley. the Ta´naiste again whether she will publish the advice provided to her by the Southern Eastern Mr. Rabbitte: The Cabinet is on a life-support Health Board. machine.

The Ta´naiste: As I told the House yesterday, An Ceann Comhairle: The Ta´naiste without the advice from the South Eastern Health Board interruption please. cannot be published for legal reasons because there are cases pending and we would jeopardise The Ta´naiste: All the papers were prepared to the position of the State and taxpayers—— get that legal advice. The tragedy is that that let- ter did not issue from the Secretary General of Mr. Rabbitte: The Ta´naiste has thrown in the the Department of Health and Children because towel. even if we had corrected this matter a year ago we could have saved ourselves over \100 million. The Ta´naiste: No, I have not. That is the reality.

An Ceann Comhairle: The Ta´naiste, without Mr. J. O’Keeffe: The papers are in the Mini- interruption, please. ster’s office.

Mr. Rabbitte: She has now admitted cul- Mr. J. Higgins: Has the Ta´naiste been briefed pability. on the report by the labour inspectorate into the 1603 Leaders’ 23 March 2005. Questions 1604

[Mr. J. Higgins.] which the labour inspectorate is currently carry- international Turkish-based construction com- ing out. I understand it will be available to him pany, GAMA? The Ta´naiste went to Turkey and shortly. invited Turkish big business to come to Ireland. Was she aware then, or since, that GAMA, which Mr. Rabbitte: Will he read it? came at her invitation, combines the most advanced technology with the most primitive The Ta´naiste: In advance of that inquiry, the techniques of worker exploitation, perfected in Minister has briefed the Cabinet on some of the many states in the Middle East, and then issues to which Deputy Joe Higgins has referred. imported intact into Ireland four and a half years Our law gives equal protection to foreign and ago? GAMA swore to the Department of Irish workers. It does not discriminate in any Enterprise, Trade and Employment, of which the respect in favour of our indigenous population or Ta´naiste was then in charge, and to the trade other Europeans, as opposed to those from out- unions that it paid the agreed rates to all its Turk- side the European Union. I have no reason to \ ish workers — a minimum of 12.96 per hour and doubt that the Deputy’s information is correct. If overtime. However, with consummate cynicism, it stands up when the labour inspectorate GAMA paid Irish workers those rates, but not produces its report, it will be a disgrace that any the Turkish workers. GAMA never gave its workers could be treated and exploited in that Turkish workers legal payslips. I have GAMA fashion. Clearly, the Minister will act. I under- payslips. One such pay-slip for a worker named stand he has already given work permits to some Jamal was typical. It shows that in one month last of the workers in that company so they can move summer he worked 330 hours, which is a mon- elsewhere and seek employment from alternative strous 80 hours plus per week. Leaving aside employers. The Minister will have to take advice overtime, on the flat rate, he should have on whether he can publish the report. He will received a minimum of \4,200 a month but he got have to bring the report to the attention of other less than \1,000. This is a bank statement from authorities, such as the Revenue Commissioners his account in the Is Bank in Turkey showing that or the director of corporate enforcement. The he received less than \250 in cash to spend in Minister and his Department have been in con- Ireland for the month. The rest, less than \1,000, was paid into a Turkish lira and euro account in stant contact with the Deputy since he raised this Turkey. Where did that worker’s \3,000 monthly issue in the House a couple of weeks ago. income go? When the investigation began, the Turkish Mr. J. Higgins: Yes, it was seven weeks ago. workers were coached, under severe duress, to Those who are now trying to delay the report — say the money went to accounts in their names in certain corporate entities which have stuff to hide Finansbank in Holland. They had to be coached — had plenty of time to come forward. The Inde- because no worker knows, or knew, that they had pendent Deputies have afforded me the oppor- accounts in their names in Finansbank in Hol- tunity to raise this crucial issue. They have done land. What we have, in fact, is a master fraud by a good service to Irish and immigrant workers. a major entity in the construction scene in this Unfortunately, I have not seen the report of the country; a grand larceny of workers’ wages labour inspectorate, although I would like to have amounting to millions of euro each month. Tens a copy of it. I know, however, that the inspector- of millions of euro have been stolen from the ate has worked extremely hard on foot of the workers over the past year alone. GAMA paid allegations made and the information supplied to not a penny in income tax on behalf of the it by the Socialist Party. workers because the company is exempt by I want to secure the jobs of Irish and Turkish agreement with the Ta´naiste and the Revenue workers in GAMA who, for the most part, are Commissioners from paying income tax. Apart family men. I want to see the immediate payment from the slave wage rates, that agreement gives of trade union rates to all workers. I want to see the company a hugely competitive edge over the payment of all back money stolen from the other construction companies that pay trade Turkish workers, which amounts to tens of mil- union rates. This is the most severe corporate lions of euro. I want the Garda fraud squad, the criminality. corporate enforcement agency or any other agency to examine the accounts forensically to An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy’s time has see the precise mechanism by which this fraud concluded. was perpetrated.

Mr. J. Higgins: It represents the most severe An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy’s time has exploitation of workers and is a threat to the concluded. wages and conditions of all workers, whether Irish or immigrant. I want this report published Mr. J. Higgins: Irish and immigrant workers and I want action to be taken on it immediately. should never again have to face employers using the methods of GAMA, which involve criminal The Ta´naiste: The Minister for Enterprise, exploitation in the extreme. Will the Ta´naiste say Trade and Employment has initiated an inquiry what the main conclusions of the briefing were? 1605 Ceisteanna — 23 March 2005. Questions 1606

She should share that with us because the matter Mr. Boyle: The number of suicides for 2002 was is in the public domain. listed at 478, suggesting a doubling of the number of suicides over a 20 year period. It is the most The Ta´naiste: The briefing simply told me that common cause of death in the 15-24 age group, the Minister is awaiting the report but I under- particularly among young men. Are the Minister stand that a draft of the report has been circu- and the Central Statistics Office satisfied that this lated in the interests of natural represents the full picture? A theory exists that a 11 o’clock justice. If the report bears out what number of fatal car crashes involving single the Deputy is saying, and I am not vehicles are disguised suicides. International casting doubt in any way on what he has said, research suggests that where open verdicts are then it is a total disgrace. All the forces of the given in these cases, as many as 6% of single State will have to be brought to bear on this issue vehicle car crashes could be disguised suicides. Is to ensure it cannot recur. Of course, all the the Central Statistics Office taking these statistics employees will have to receive their entitlements. into account? How are such statistics being As I said, the law does not discriminate in favour gathered? of Irish workers at the expense of others. We Following from this issue, do the Minister and have a very successful economy. We have pro- the Central Statistics Office accept there is a need vided good employment, in the main, to immi- to introduce the long-promised coroners Bill to grant workers, and we want that to continue. collect information from the nation’s coroners so However, we do not want to see any worker, no it can be more easily accessed and more readily matter who it is, exploited in the fashion the analysed in regard to this grey area? Deputy suggested. An Ceann Comhairle: The second part of the Deputy’s question is a matter directly for the line Ceisteanna — Questions. Minister, the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform. ———— Mr. Boyle: It relates to the collection of Central Statistics Office Review. statistics. 1. Mr. Sargent asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the recently published CSO report on An Ceann Comhairle: Not in regard to the cor- vital statistics, 2002; and if he will make a state- oners Bill. ment on the matter. [9300/05] Mr. Boyle: The question relates to a grey area Minister of State at the Department of the in which we cannot get proper analysis and statis- Taoiseach (Mr. Kitt): The Central Statistics tics. I put that to the Minister. Office published the report on vital statistics for 2002 on 31 January this year, when it was also An Ceann Comhairle: While the Chair wants laid before this House. The main statistics con- to facilitate Deputies, obviously, on this question, tained in the report had already been published, I cannot allow Deputies to examine the area of classified by year of registration, in the CSO other Ministers. It is purely a statistical question. quarterly vital statistics reports. The annual report gives a further breakdown in respect of Mr. Boyle: Without referring to the Bill, might births, deaths and stillbirths occurring in 2002. I ask on the difficulties coroners have in supply- Information on marriages registered in that year ing such information and having it properly was not included but will be published separately analysed? later this year. The report on vital statistics con- tains a wealth of information on chronicling Mr. Kitt: I share the Deputy’s concern about changes in Ireland’s social and demographic the number of suicides. In 2002 there were 478 development. deaths due to suicide, 387 male and 91 female. Some of the main general findings include the The specific details are available in the Central following. The number of births in 2002 was Statistics Office report. I understand those deaths 60,503, giving a rate of 15.4 births per 1,000 popu- occurred mainly in the 15-24 and 25-29 age lation, an increase on the 2001 rate of 15 births. groups. It is an issue that warrants our attention. The total period fertility rate was 1.98 in 2002, Deputy Neville has championed this cause in the which is somewhat below the replacement level Chamber and outside it. of 2.1 children, generally taken to be the level at Since the publication of the report of the which a generation would replace itself in the National Task Force on Suicide in 1998, a cumu- long run, ignoring migration, but is still the high- lative total of more \17.5 million has been pro- est rate in the EU 15 region. The number of vided towards suicide prevention programmes deaths occurring during 2002 was 29,683, giving a and for research. In addition, a new strategic rate of 7.6 deaths per 1,000 population. This was action plan for suicide reduction is being pre- a decrease on the 2001 rate of 7.9 deaths. pared which will build on existing policy and the For the benefit of Deputies, I am circulating a recommendations contained in the report of the statement summarising the principal findings of National Task Force on Suicide. It is an issue with the 2002 report. which the Government is very engaged and the 1607 Ceisteanna — 23 March 2005. Questions 1608

[Mr. Kitt.] is this explained and how is the information used President, Mrs. McAleese, has taken a special within the health service? interest in this area. I accept the figure for 478 deaths is worrying, Mr. Kitt: During 2002 the number of deaths of in particular the breakdown between the 387 infants under one year was 305 compared with male and 91 female deaths. The Government is 331 in 2001. The infant death rate in 2002 was aware of and concerned about the number of five per 1,000 live births. This was a decrease on young males who have committed suicide in the 2001 figure of 5.7 infant deaths per 1,000 live recent times. births. The Irish rate is higher than the current EU 15 average of 4.3 infant deaths per 1,000 live Mr. Boyle: I wish to question the Minister on births and the current EU 25 average of 4.6 infant the infant mortality rate and cancer deaths but I deaths per 1,000 live births. Some 41% of infant suspect other Deputies would first want to ask on deaths occurred on their first day. suicide statistics. Would it be in order if I came The number of stillbirths occurring during 2002 in subsequently? was 364 compared with 358 in 2001. The stillbirth rate in 2002 was six per 1,000 births, a decrease on An Ceann Comhairle: Yes. I call Deputy the 2001 figure of 6.1 stillbirths per 1,000 births. Neville. Mr. Boyle: I asked if the CSO had an opinion Mr. Neville: In 1998 the National Task Force on what the factors are regarding the infant mor- on Suicide made 86 recommendations in regard tality rate in Ireland, compared not only to the to suicide prevention but very little has been rate in the 15 EU countries but in the extended achieved. The National Suicide Review Group 25 EU countries. Many of these countries have was established to introduce and advise on the standards of living much lower than ours. recommendations. Does the Government plan to introduce the recommendations? An Ceann Comhairle: That may be a question for the line Minister. An Ceann Comhairle: Deputy, this is purely a statistical question. I do not know whether some Mr. Kitt: Yes. I can only suggest that this kind of the recommendations relate to the Central of question on specifics, on policy issues and on Statistics Office. The question should be follow-up policies with regard to these figures, be addressed to the line Minister responsible. put to the line Minister, the Minister for Health and Children, who is sitting beside me. I can only Mr. Neville: On the statistical information, the share with the Deputy the data I have with me. figures released and available to the House in the past two years show that 452 suicides occurred in Mr. Boyle: I have a further health-related ques- 2002. That figure has now been revised by the tion with regard to the vital statistics. Cancer Central Statistics Office to 478. Will the Minister deaths make up a quarter of all deaths in the year explain the alteration in the figures provided to under consideration. Has the Minister for State the House? Will he indicate when preliminary fig- figures regarding how this relates to the situation ures from the Central Statistics Office for 2004 in other EU countries? Has he got National Can- will be made available? They are usually avail- cer Registry figures for the regions? The last able at this time of year. report I saw from the registry indicated that cer- tain regions have higher than national average Mr. Kitt: The revision probably occurred rates for all cancers. The Dublin metropolitan because there are two types of statistics, date of area, County Louth and the Cork-Kerry areas registration figures compiled on a quarterly basis were all seen to have rates for all cancers which and date of occurrence data which are compiled are higher than the national average. Can the later. The figure I now have for deaths in 2004 is Minister of State supply information as to where 478, which relates to the occurrence data. Figures we stand with regard to other European coun- for 2003 will be available—— tries, how the regional statistics for cancer deaths are compiled, and how they compare? Mr. Neville: I asked for figures for 2004. Mr. Kitt: I will supply the Deputy with the fig- Mr. Kitt: The figures I have provided to the ures I have and will ask the CSO to pass on to House relate to 2002. It will probably be later this the Deputy the relevant regional figures and the year before we have the figures for 2003. comparisons with figures in other European countries. The figures I have will be of interest to Mr. Boyle: To move to the issue of the infant the Deputy and to others. mortality rate, has the Central Statistics Office an Of the deaths occurring in 2000, 25.3% were explanation as to why the Irish rate of five deaths due to cancer, 26.1% to various forms of heart per 1,000 is higher than the EU 15 rate prior to disease, 13.2% to other diseases of the circulatory accession and the EU 25 rate for infant mortality? system and 14.6% to diseases of the respiratory It seems anomalous in a country that is supposed system. The number of deaths occurring in 2002, to be one of the more prosperous in Europe that 29,683, was the lowest recorded since the pro- we have such a high rate of infant mortality. How duction of vital statistics began in 1864. The death 1609 Order of 23 March 2005. Business 1610 rate of 7.6 per 1,000 of the population in 2002 was Ms Harney: As Minister for Health and Chil- also the lowest ever recorded. dren I am worried about the Deputy.

Mr. Durkan: The Deputy will end up on a Request to move Adjournment of Da´il under trolley. Standing Order 31. Mr. Boyle: I seek the adjournment of the Da´il Ms Lynch: She should stay out of hospital. under Standing Order 31 to raise a matter of national public interest, namely, that in the light Ms Harney: If the Deputy speaks out of breath of the most recent list of tax defaulters published more often, she will end up in an accident and by the Revenue Commissioners, the Minister for emergency department. She should take it easy. Finance make a statement to the House on the plans, if any, he has to strengthen legislation on An Ceann Comhairle: Having considered the the way in which Members and former Members matters, they are not in accordance with Standing of this House comply with their tax liabilities. Order 31.

Mr. Healy: I seek the adjournment of the Da´il Order of Business. under Standing Order 31 to raise a matter of urgent national importance, namely, in view of The Ta´naiste: It is proposed to take No. 9, the recent inhumane deportations, the need for motion re tribunal of inquiry into the fatal shoot- the Government to reverse these decisions and to ings of Chief Superintendent Harry Breen and declare an amnesty for all asylum seekers already Superintendent Robert Buchanan; No.19, Ra´itis resident in the State, and to ask the Minister for maidir leis an nGaeilge, statements on the Irish Justice, Equality and Law Reform to make a language; and No.18, Garda Sı´ocha´na Bill 2004 statement on the matter. [Seanad] — Second Stage (resumed). It is pro- posed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Dr. Cowley: I seek the adjournment of the Da´il Orders, that the proceedings on No. 9 shall, if not under Standing Order 31 to raise a matter of previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion national importance, namely, the spending of after three hours and 30 minutes and the follow- \150 million to further congest Dublin Airport ing arrangements shall apply: the speech of the and its surroundings when Ireland’s fourth inter- Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform national airport at Knock lies under-developed and of the main spokespersons for the Fine Gael and under-utilised with 400,000 passengers com- Party, the Labour Party and the Technical Group, pared to 38 million passengers projected for who shall be called upon in that order, shall not Dublin Airport by 2025, which flies in the face of exceed 15 minutes in each case; the speech of common sense and balanced regional each other Member called upon shall not exceed development. 15 minutes in each case; Members may share time; and the Minister for Justice, Equality and Mr. Kitt: Mr. Michael O’Leary should be sent Law Reform shall be called upon to make a down there. speech in reply which shall not exceed five minutes. Dr. Cowley: If Knock had the second terminal It is proposed that the proceedings on No. 19 or the money for it, that would do fine. Some \40 shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to million would be fine. a conclusion at noon on Thursday, 24 March 2005 and the following arrangements shall apply: the Ms Harkin: I seek the adjournment of the Da´il statements of the Minister for Community, Rural under Standing Order 31 to raise a matter of local and Gaeltacht Affairs and of the main spokes- and national importance, namely, the motion persons for the Fine Gael Party, the Labour Party passed by Sligo County Council which expresses and the Technical Group, who shall be called its grave concern with the action of the Arts upon in that order, shall not exceed 15 minutes Council in adopting a report that was substan- in each case; the statement of each other Member tially changed after it was signed off by the called upon shall not exceed 15 minutes in each special committee on the traditional arts and case; Members may share time; and the Minister which also calls on the Minister to initiate an for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs shall immediate and full inquiry to ascertain the facts be called upon to make a statement in reply surrounding this totally unacceptable and unac- which shall not exceed five minutes. Private countable action by the Arts Council. Members’ Business shall be No. 39, Fur Farming (Prohibition) Bill 2004 — Second Stage Mr. Kitt: The answer is still no. (resumed) to conclude at 8.30 p.m.

Ms Harkin: I am out of breath because I came An Ceann Comhairle: There are two proposals all the way from Brussels. to put to the House. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 9, motion re tribunal of inquiry into the Mr. Rabbitte: If the Ceann Comhairle will not fatal shootings of Chief Superintendent Harry concede to the Deputy’s request he will concede Breen and Superintendent Robert Buchanan, to nothing. agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing 1611 Order of 23 March 2005. Business 1612

[An Ceann Comhairle.] lation. There is no justification for people not with No. 19, statements on the Irish language, being paid the going rate, the agreed rates or for agreed to? Agreed. the law not being enforced. The existing labour laws apply to non-nationals as much as to Mr. Kenny: So far as the Government is con- nationals. cerned, along with the British Government, has any progress been made regarding an inquiry into Mr. Rabbitte: Does that imply the Ta´naiste the death of Pat Finucane? The Taoiseach has does not appreciate, for example, that right across raised the matter with the British Prime Minister, south Dublin women employed in domestic ser- Mr. Blair, on a number of occasions. vice are grossly exploited, as are non-nationals In view of the announcement made during the throughout the island? It is all very well for her week by the Minister for Social and Family to say she condemns it, but when will the law be Affairs regarding the Government’s consider- enforced? There is little point in having a law giv- ation of the range of problems relating to child ing them the same rights as other workers if it is care, is it expected that a Supplementary Esti- not enforced. mate will be introduced for that Department this year, to deal with whatever proposal the Minister, The Ta´naiste: I know that in recent times the Deputy Brennan, will bring before the Cabinet? minimum wage law is being enforced and that if any cases are brought to the attention of the auth- The Ta´naiste: No Supplementary Estimate is orities, they are pursued vigorously. The new promised. That matter has not come before the work permit legislation simply provides for the Government so I am not certain what the pro- new regime that exists, in particular since the posals are. The Government has been dealing enlargement of the European Union when per- with the issue of child care for a considerable mits became an exception. Permits are mainly for period. higher skilled workers because we should be able to meet all our labour needs from the existing Mr. Rabbitte: There are a few press releases EU 25. This will expand further over time. The left before the Minister, Deputy Brennan, gets to intention of the work permit or green card type a Supplementary Estimate. concept is to give more control to employees and allow them to move more freely between jobs. The Ta´naiste: Regarding Deputy Kenny’s first Workers from EU countries do not require a per- question, I cannot say if any further progress has mit, but I accept that the Turkish workers do. been made on that matter. I will get back to the However, many of the other examples given are Deputy. of people from existing EU countries such as Poland. These provisions will not apply to them. Mr. Rabbitte: I do not know if the Ta´naiste appreciates that this is the seventh Da´il term dur- Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in: The Oireachtas estab- ing which the work permits Bill has been prom- lished the Morris tribunal to inquire into corrup- ised, which I understand was previously the tion within the Garda in County Donegal. The Ta´naiste’s responsibility. Last night she may have tribunal was charged with carrying out a fair heard the Kilkenny People editor saying that non- examination of the matters referred to it. Will national workers were being employed by farm- there be an interim report from the tribunal to ers in Kilkenny at a rate of \1 per hour and that the Oireachtas? Is the Ta´naiste aware that hear- their diet consisted of sliced pan and brown ings due to take place in the coming month have sauce. We heard Deputy Joe Higgins—— been moved to Dublin on the spurious grounds—— An Ceann Comhairle: We cannot discuss what might be in the Bill. An Ceann Comhairle: That does not arise at this stage. Mr. Rabbitte: No, but seven Da´il terms after the promise of its introduction to the House, it Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in: The Ceann Comhairle still has not been published. We heard from has accepted that this is the appropriate time to Deputy Joe Higgins this morning about GAMA raise the matter of the establishment of that Construction. tribunal.

An Ceann Comhairle: The contribution of An Ceann Comhairle: The Chair has rules on Deputy Joe Higgins this morning does not arise what is or is not allowed on the Order of Busi- at this stage. ness. I will allow the question on whether an interim report is promised. Mr. Rabbitte: It does. Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in: He has allowed ques- The Ta´naiste: The Bill is imminent. The tions on its establishment on the Order of Busi- Government cleared the heads some time ago ness. I want to know when an interim report will and it will be published and taken in the House be presented and the Ta´naiste’s position on the before the summer recess. Many of the issues decision of the tribunal not to hold its hearings in raised are already catered for in existing legis- Donegal, which is more appropriate. 1613 Order of 23 March 2005. Business 1614

An Ceann Comhairle: The Chair will accept so that we can debate this issue and highlight the Deputy’s first question but the second is what has happened to patients? They are lying on totally out of order. trolleys months after the Minister gave undertak- ings that these problems would be sorted. Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in: No, not at all. An Ceann Comhairle: We cannot discuss what An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy should not might be appropriate on Second Stage of the Bill. challenge the Chair. The Chair has ruled and the Questions may be addressed to the Minister for Deputy must accept the ruling. The Deputy Health and Children at Question Time this should resume his seat. afternoon. Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in: The question is important —— The Ta´naiste: The nurses’ Bill will be intro- duced later this year. The legislation does not An Ceann Comhairle: It may well be propose to prevent nurses from taking industrial important, but it is not in order and the Deputy action. knows that. Mr. Boyle: I have two questions. First, when The Ta´naiste: The tribunal has a distinguished will the third arm of the Government’s promised chairperson. It is a matter for him to decide programme on disability legislation come before where evidence is collected, not for the Govern- the House? Is the Government waiting for the ment or the Oireachtas. I have no information as Second Stage of the Disability Bill to finish or be to whether the tribunal will submit an interim withdrawn before we have a debate on the Comh- report. airle (Amendment) Bill? I am not sure whether the Ta´naiste will be able to answer my second Mr. Crawford: I wish to raise two matters. First, question as we are rarely informed on these in light of a situation where a young 19 year old matters until after they have happened. Has the person had to go to hospital after a fracas in President signed the Health (Amendment) Bill? Clones the other night, when will the alcohol I understand that up until last week it had not products (control of advertising, sponsorship and been signed. marketing practices/sales promotions) Bill come into this House so that we can discuss and deal The Ta´naiste: The President has ten days to with such matters? Second, can we have a debate sign it from the time it was passed in the on agriculture to allow us to discuss the closure Oireachtas. I am not certain whether it has been of the Teagasc office in Bailieborough—— signed, but will revert to the Deputy on the matter. An Ceann Comhairle: The second question does not arise. The Ta´naiste to reply on the first The Comhairle (Amendment) Bill has been question. published, but I am not sure when it will be taken in the House. I will discuss that with the Minister The Ta´naiste: The Bill will be in the House for Social and Family Affairs, Deputy Brennan. later this year. Mr. Neville: The child protection joint working Ms McManus: When the Ta´naiste took over in group issued specific recommendations concern- the Department of Health and Children she made ing the register of persons considered unsafe to a specific commitment to deal with the accident work with children. When will legislation on this and emergency crisis. She undertook that the issue be introduced. problems in accident and emergency services would be greatly relieved by this time. The Ta´naiste: I am not in a position to say when we will have that legislation. An Ceann Comhairle: Has the Deputy a ques- tion on legislation? Mr. Kenny: I hope the Government Whip will be able to bring forward his proposals for Da´il Ms McManus: I have. We are now in a situa- reform at an early date. Will the Ta´naiste see to tion where the nurses’ organisations are going to it that Deputy McEntee is given an office today? stage a protest and we have no forum in which to I know people are working on the matter, but will debate the matter. the Ta´naiste ensure it is sorted out? An Ceann Comhairle: That does not arise. The Deputy must find another way of raising that Ms Lynch: Is the Ta´naiste aware as Minister issue. for Health and Children that the leukaemia unit, which deals specifically with children in the Ms McManus: Will the Minister for Health and Mercy hospital is not taking any new cases as a Children, the Ta´naiste, introduce the nurses Bill result of the crisis—— 1615 Order of 23 March 2005. Business 1616

An Ceann Comhairle: Has the Deputy a ques- Last week the Taoiseach stated that legislation tion on legislation? would be published in the coming weeks. Will that happen? Ms Lynch: I have a question on the legislation to establish the health and quality authority. Is The Ta´naiste: The reason the tribunal cannot the Ta´naiste aware of the crisis besetting the leu- inquire into this matter is the court held that kaemia unit in the Mercy hospital as a result given the age of the witnesses, it would be wrong of—— and unfair to require them to give evidence. That will also apply to any new inquiry that could be An Ceann Comhairle: That question does not established in this area. I recently had discussions arise. with a number of the interests in this matter and I will make a decision shortly. I will communicate Ms Lynch: It is as a result of the setting up of directly with the Deputy. the health—— Mr. Allen: I tried to raise on the Adjournment An Ceann Comhairle: The question is not last night an issue relating to the leukaemia unit appropriate. The Deputy must find another way in the Mercy Hospital, Cork, and I appeal to the of raising the issue. Questions are addressed to Ceann Comhairle to allow the issue to be taken the Minister for Health and Children at Question on the Adjournment today or tomorrow. Time this afternoon. The matter is not appro- priate on the Order of Business. If everybody An Ceann Comhairle: There are many ways to rose on the Order of Business and made a Second raise that issue. Stage speech, we would do no other business in the House. Mr. Allen: It is essential that the issue is explained by the Ta´naiste and Minister for Ms Lynch: It is not a Second Stage speech. Any Health and Children before the Da´il goes into question raised about the establishment of an recess. authority, for example the Health Executive which is responsible in this issue, cannot be raised Mr. G. Mitchell: The Ta´naiste indicated here. As a result of the setting up of—— recently that legislation would be introduced to amend the Nurses Act 1985 to recognise the An Ceann Comhairle: That does not arise on issues of concern to midwives. When will the the Order of Business. The Chair does not want legislation be before the House? to take up the time of the House by reading out The Ta´naiste: Later this year. Standing Order 26 again. If the Deputy does not resume her seat, I shall move on to the next Dr. Cowley: Given that 20 million passengers business. are landing on one side of the country while only 400,000 land on the other, will equality legislation The Tanaiste: The legislation to establish the ´ be introduced to bring about some semblance of health information and quality authority on a balanced regional development? Perhaps the statutory basis will be published and, I hope, Government should be compelled to implement enacted this year. As the Deputy is aware, the the national development plan to achieve authority was established on an interim basis in balanced regional development. Cork recently. The Ta´naiste: Legislation is not needed to Ms Lynch: What about the crisis in the Mercy build more terminals at Knock Airport. hospital? Dr. Cowley: It is. Mr. Rabbitte: I am sure the Ta´naiste would like to be back in the arms of the ICA. Mr. Durkan: Given the significant discrepancy between petrol and diesel prices at various fore- The Ta´naiste: I would not. I love this challenge. courts and the phenomenon of diesel prices over- taking petrol prices, will the Government intro- Mr. Stanton: Between 1940 and 1987 it appears duce the national oil reserve agency Bill to focus that more than 300 children were the subject of on that issue in a way that will be positive from vaccine trials. In 2001 legislation was passed to the consumers’ point of view? direct the Commission to Inquire into Child Abuse to investigate the issue, which the Minister The Ta´naiste: The Bill will be introduced this described as the ultimate guarantee against a year but it will not deal with the issues raised by cover-up or whitewash. Last summer the courts the Deputy. threw that out saying he acted outside his powers. I have asked the Ta´naiste on a number of Mr. Durkan: Why not? Do they not concern occasions what action she intends to take as a the Ta´naiste? The Minister for Justice, Equality result because legislation is required in this area. and Law Reform is concerned about them. 1617 Tribunals of Inquiry: 23 March 2005. Motion 1618

Tribunals of Inquiry: Motion. (a) the number of parties granted rep- resentation by the tribunal, Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform (Mr. McDowell): I move: (b) the progress which will then have been made in the hearings and work of That Da´il E´ ireann: the tribunal, — noting that following agreement (c) the likely duration, so far as might reached between the British and Irish then be capable of being estimated, of the Governments at Weston Park in 2001, proceedings of the tribunal, retired Canadian Supreme Court Judge Mr. Peter Cory was appointed to under- (d) any other matters that the tribunal take a thorough investigation of alle- considers should be drawn to the attention gations of collusion between British and of the Houses of the Oireachtas at the time Irish security forces and paramilitaries of the report, including any matters relat- in six incidents; ing to its terms of reference; — noting that the aim of this process was (II) if the tribunal finds that there is insuf- to determine whether there is sufficient ficient co-operation from a person(s) not evidence of collusion between State compellable to give evidence pursuant to the security forces and those responsible for provisions of the Tribunals of Inquiry the killings in each case to warrant a (Evidence) Acts 1921 to 2002, to report that public inquiry; fact to the Clerk of the Da´il, including the steps taken by the tribunal to obtain the co- — noting that, as part of the Weston Park operation of that person(s), for consideration agreement, the two Governments com- by the Houses of the Oireachtas, in conjunc- mitted themselves that in the event that tion with the Minister for Justice, Equality a public inquiry is recommended in any and Law Reform, having regard to the public case, the relevant Government will interest; and implement that recommendation; (III) the inquiry shall be completed in as — noting that having completed his inves- economical a manner as possible and at the tigation into the murder of Chief Super- earliest possible date consistent with a fair intendent Harry Breen and Superin- examination of the matters referred to it. tendent Robert Buchanan, both of the Royal Ulster Constabulary RUC, Mr. I am pleased to have the opportunity to table this Peter Cory concluded that evidence was motion seeking the establishment of a tribunal of revealed that, if accepted, could be inquiry into suggestions of collusion in the brutal found to constitute collusion; and callous murders of RUC Chief Superintend- ent Harry Breen and RUC Superintendent Bob — mindful that certain incidents from the Buchanan by the Provisional IRA in 1989. past in Northern Ireland giving rise to serious allegations of collusion by secur- The background to this motion originates as far ity forces in each jurisdiction remain a back as August 2001 when, following discussions source of grave public concern; with the Northern Ireland parties at Weston Park, the Irish and British Governments committed resolves that it is expedient that a tribunal themselves to the appointment of a judge of inter- established under the Tribunals of Inquiry national standing from outside both jurisdictions (Evidence) Acts 1921 to 2002 to inquire into to undertake a thorough investigation of alle- the following definite matter of urgent public gations of collusion between British and Irish importance: security forces and paramilitaries in six cases. The six cases are the murders of Mr. Pat Finucane, — Suggestions that members of the Garda Mr. Robert Hamill, Ms Rosemary Nelson, Mr. Sı´ocha´na or other employees of the Billy Wright, the two RUC officers and Northern State colluded in the fatal shootings of Ireland Lord Justice Maurice Gibson and Lady RUC Chief Superintendent Harry Cecily Gibson. The first four of these cases relate Breen and RUC Superintendent to allegations of collusion by British security Robert Buchanan on 20 March 1989; forces while the other two cases relate to alle- and to report to the Clerk of Da´il E´ ireann and gations of collusion by the Garda. Arising from to make such findings and recommendations as the Weston Park agreement, Mr. Peter Cory, an it sees fit in relation to these matters; eminent retired Canadian Supreme Court judge, was asked by the two Governments to investigate and further resolves that: and report on the allegations of collusion. Judge (I) the tribunal shall report to the Clerk of Cory was appointed by the Governments in May the Da´il on an interim basis not later than 2002. three months from the date of establishment The aim of the inquiry process under Judge of the tribunal and as soon as may be after Cory was to determine whether there is sufficient the tenth day of any oral hearings of the tri- evidence of collusion between State security bunal on the following matters: forces and those responsible for the killings in 1619 Tribunals of Inquiry: 23 March 2005. Motion 1620

[Mr. McDowell.] and with camouflage on their faces, stopped each case to warrant a public inquiry. The result- southbound cars and strategically placed them so ant reports into the six cases were submitted to as to funnel northbound traffic into a single lane. the Governments by Judge Cory in October 2003. Shortly after the last southbound vehicle was On behalf of the Government, I thank and com- stopped and in place, Superintendent Buchanan’s mend Judge Cory once again for his diligent and car appeared, driving northwards. It was also painstaking work in producing these reports. In flagged down by the armed men in the middle of December 2003, following Government approval, the road. As the car slowed, a van, which had I published redacted versions of the two reports been following, overtook Superintendent to the Government. All the redactions to the two Buchanan’s car and pulled into a nearby laneway. reports were performed with the explicit consent Four armed men, wearing camouflage and bala- and approval of Judge Cory and occurred solely clavas, emerged from the van and started firing on the basis of the Government’s obligations to immediately. Superintendent Buchanan ensure justice. attempted to reverse his car to escape but the car The two reports make grim reading for anyone apparently stalled and he was unsuccessful. with even an ounce of humanity. Both Lord Both Chief Superintendent Harry Breen and Justice and Lady Gibson were cruelly killed in a Superintendent Bob Buchanan, while still in the carefully planned and executed bombing attack car, were hit several times by a hail of bullets. on the morning of 25 April 1987. The south Arm- Examination of the vehicle the following day agh brigade of the Provisional IRA claimed indicated no less than 25 strike marks from bul- responsibility for the killings. The IRA also lets along both sides of the car, with the majority issued other public statements indicating that the aimed at the driver’s side. The autopsy performed murders had been planned in advance. Sugges- on Superintendent Buchanan revealed that he tions of collusion related to claims that a member had suffered many fragment wounds in the head or members of the Garda advised those directly and upper body, and it is probable that he was responsible for the killings or members of their dead by the time his car came to a halt. He had organisation of the Gibsons’ itinerary on that also been shot in the head at close range, almost fateful day. certainly after he had died. Judge Cory concluded in his report on this Chief Superintendent Breen had been appalling crime that there is no evidence of col- wounded in the abdomen, the upper right lusion by the Garda or other Government agency shoulder and the arm, and had sustained wounds that would warrant the holding of an inquiry. I to his head. It appears he had left the car after it welcome this finding in that it removes doubt or came to a stop, waving a white handkerchief. It suspicion that a member or members of the was obvious he had suffered several gunshot Garda committed a gross act of treachery in col- wounds before he left the car which, although luding in the murder of two innocents. I fully severe, did not appear to have been fatal. Eyewit- realise that is cold comfort to the victims’ ness accounts indicated that a member of the Pro- families. visional IRA murder squad walked up to him and The other case relevant to this jurisdiction shot him in the back of the head. It is worth examined by Judge Cory is different, but it restating that these were two unarmed RUC involved an equally horrific act of callous murder. officers returning from a meeting with their col- While I appreciate that the detail I am about to leagues in an Garda Sı´ocha´na. They were, in relate concerning this appalling act of savagery is short, two policemen doing their duty and distressing, it is worth recalling, if only to demon- attempting to achieve peace on both sides of the strate the sheer depravity of those who per- Border. petrated it. On the afternoon of 20 March 1989, That, then, is the appalling scene which Judge Chief Superintendent Harry Breen and Superin- Cory paints of the last moments of these two tendent Bob Buchanan were shot dead in an men’s lives. As he says himself in his report, those ambush just north of the Border as they returned shootings were brutal, cowardly and demon- from a prearranged meeting with a senior Garda strated a callous insensitivity to both the suffering officer in Dundalk Garda station. The Provisional of individuals and to life itself. Nobody who could IRA subsequently claimed responsibility for this describe himself or herself as interested in peace double murder. The location of the ambush, on in Ireland, a united Ireland, justice, human rights the Edenappa road, was found by Judge Cory to or any value asserted in the Proclamation of 1916 have been well chosen in terms of topography could have done that to two unarmed policemen and tree cover with respect to a nearby British in such a cruel and cowardly way. It is a great army observation post. The ambush involved shame that the Provisional IRA should do such a PIRA members establishing a checkpoint on the thing to two men in those circumstances. road only minutes before the arrival of Superin- I now turn to suggestions of collusion. Those tendent Buchanan’s private car carrying the two relate to claims that a member of the Garda RUC officers. The two officers were unarmed, as Sı´ocha´na, or a civilian employed within the was required at the time, and the perpetrators of Garda, advised either those directly responsible this act knew that. for the killings or members of their organisation From the available information, it appears that of the visit of the two RUC officers and, in part- two armed men, dressed in army style fatigues icular, of the time they left Dundalk Garda 1621 Tribunals of Inquiry: 23 March 2005. Motion 1622 station. In his report, Judge Cory examined the Breen and RUC Superintendent Robert known circumstances, the intelligence reports and Buchanan on 20 March 1989. By any stretch of other matters in drawing conclusions about the the imagination, this is the broadest possible case. From a review of the relevant factors, Judge interpretation of the findings of the relevant Cory Cory stated that it might be said that the Pro- report, and it delimits in no way whatsoever the visional IRA did not need any assistance from tribunal’s latitude to inquire into whatever organ- within the Garda to carry out the ambush. More- isations and individuals that it sees fit. over, Judge Cory suggests that the intelligence The other notable feature of the terms of refer- reports received shortly after the murders, con- ence is paragraph (II), which states that if the tri- sidered by themselves, might be thought to point bunal finds that there is insufficient co-operation to a similar conclusion. from any person not compellable to give evi- However, Judge Cory considered that a state- dence, that fact should be reported to the Clerk ment made by one Kevin Fulton could be found of the Da´il for consideration by the Houses of the to constitute evidence of collusion on the part of Oireachtas, in conjunction with myself, having a Garda officer, referred to as Garda B in the regard to the public interest. The thinking here is report. Kevin Fulton is the pseudonym of a simple: it is a fact that likely key witnesses reside former agent with a British intelligence agency outside the jurisdiction. As with domestic legis- who, in that capacity, is supposed to have become lation in general, the Tribunals of Inquiry a member of the Provisional IRA. In a statement (Evidence) Acts 1921 to 2002 apply only within delivered to Judge Cory, Kevin Fulton claims this jurisdiction. Hence, the statutory provisions that, on the day of the ambush of the two RUC relating to compellability to give evidence would officers, his senior IRA commander was told by not apply to likely key witnesses. Accordingly, it another member of the IRA that Garda B had is anticipated that the tribunal of inquiry would informed the Provisional IRA that the two be obliged to rely on the goodwill and co-oper- officers were at Dundalk Garda station. ation of non-compellable persons to make pro- Judge Cory goes on to state that this statement gress with aspects of its work. Paragraph (II) of would add credence to two intelligence reports the terms of reference provides a mechanism by which spoke of a Garda leak. In all this, it should which the tribunal can report back to the Houses be noted that Judge Cory does not make findings of the Oireachtas, should non-compellable per- of fact. Rather, he states that if that evidence sons decline to co-operate with the tribunal. were accepted by those eventually making the That is an important element of the terms of findings of fact, it could be found to constitute reference of the tribunal. In the normal course of collusion. Accordingly, on that basis, Judge Cory events, if co-operation from outside the juris- concluded that there must be a public inquiry in diction necessary for the tribunal to complete its this case. work were not forthcoming, we would be left with As part of the Weston Park agreement, the two the prospect of the tribunal reporting in an Governments committed themselves that, in the incomplete way. By virtue of this provision, event that a public inquiry is recommended in any however, the tribunal can report that fact to the case, the relevant Government will implement Oireachtas. By that means, the problem of secur- that recommendation. Accordingly, the Govern- ing co-operation from non-compellable persons ment is committed to holding a public inquiry in can be elevated to the political sphere, where I, respect of allegations of Garda collusion in the the Government and the Members of the Houses killings of the two RUC officers. In the light of of the Oireachtas can determine the best way for- Judge Cory’s recommendations, I secured ward. In particular, it provides an opportunity for Government approval to hold a public inquiry formal approaches to be made to the British into the murders, to take the form of a tribunal Government, should the need arise, to seek to of inquiry pursuant to the Tribunals of Inquiry secure the co-operation of persons residing in (Evidence) Acts 1921 to 2002. I sought that type either Britain or Northern Ireland, whether they of public inquiry because it meets all the essential be British citizens or otherwise. It provides a criteria set down by Judge Cory for a public form of political leverage, grounded in the inquiry. I subsequently secured the authorisation restated will of the Oireachtas, that can be used, of Government to lay the necessary resolutions should the need arise, to ensure the tribunal is before both Houses of the Oireachtas to enable given every opportunity to secure the cooper- the establishment of the tribunal of inquiry, ation of all those who might be able to shed light according to the formulation contained in the on this appalling act of barbarism. motion before the House, which constitutes the The House will be aware that the sole member tribunal’s terms of reference. of the tribunal will be appointed by the Govern- I briefly draw the House’s attention to some of ment, and I hope to be able to announce that per- the more important aspects of the terms of refer- son’s identity later today. I know this House will ence. After a straightforward recitation, the main join with me in advising everyone involved to co- operative section is, of course, that a tribunal operate fully with the tribunal. I have full confi- shall be established to inquire into suggestions dence that the Garda Sı´ocha´na, as well as any that members of the Garda Sı´ocha´na or other other institution of the State, will be forthcoming employees of the State colluded in the fatal in its engagement with the tribunal. Nothing less shootings of RUC Chief Superintendent Harry than full co-operation is demanded, and nothing 1623 Tribunals of Inquiry: 23 March 2005. Motion 1624

[Mr. McDowell.] our law here or anywhere else to ensure that the less should be expected from the guardians of full truth emerges. We owe it to the families of the State. the late Chief Superintendent Breen and Superin- There is, however, one organisation that could tendent Buchanan, the people of Northern provide full answers to the tribunal, and that, of Ireland and the people of this State, given the course, is the IRA. I challenge that organisation, concerns raised about organs of this State. I com- and Sinn Fe´in in the House, to state clearly that mend the motion to the House. there will be co-operation with the tribunal. Sinn Fe´in and the IRA cannot have it both ways: they Mr. J. O’Keeffe: Fine Gael welcomes the estab- cannot clamour for justice and truth regarding lishment of the tribunal of inquiry into the mur- other barbaric acts that Judge Cory has reported ders of Chief Superintendent Harry Breen and on and in respect of which he has recommended Superintendent Robert Buchanan by the Pro- tribunals and not co-operate on this one. Judge visional IRA in 1989. Like the Minister, we com- Cory’s recommendations are not an a` la carte mend Judge Peter Cory for the work he has done menu from which one may choose at will. If those on this case and other cases North and South. who describe themselves as the republican move- Fine Gael believes that the Cory model of pre- ment have any intention of demanding full co- liminary investigation has proved to be a very operation and delivery on Judge Cory’s recom- effective one that could be considered in other mendations by the British Government in so far cases, for example, the Omagh bombing. I ask the as it lies within its remit in respect of institutions Minister to consider that proposal. and persons in Northern Ireland in respect of While we welcome the establishment of this tri- those other inquiries, they must be willing to bunal, we also must bear in mind that it is part deliver to this inquiry a full and complete answer of a package of measures concerning the brutal regarding whether this act involved collusion on murders of others, including Robert Hamill, Billy the part of a member of the Garda Sı´ocha´na. I Wright, Rosemary Nelson, the Gibsons and say that conscious of the fact that testimony given Patrick Finucane. It is important that the full to a tribunal by definition cannot be used in package is delivered on and that the United criminal proceedings against a person who so tes- Kingdom Government in particular keeps its side tifies. Persons who testify to the tribunal which I of the bargain, focusing in particular on the mur- propose should be established will be in the der of Pat Finucane. Otherwise, it will be difficult unique position that they will be able to give the to convince people that the UK Government is tribunal evidence on a very serious crime know- serious about investigating all allegations of ing that their testimony cannot be used to incrimi- collusion. nate them. If we set aside the formalities and consider This tribunal is being established by the will of what we are examining, it brings home the hein- the people assembled here in the Houses of the ous nature of the criminal act that was committed Oireachtas and on foot of an all-party under- on Chief Superintendent Breen and Superintend- standing at Weston Park. I ask those in particular ent Buchanan. It is important to bear in mind that who describe themselves as the republican move- these men were travelling unarmed back from a ment to remember that fact because it is the will meeting in Dundalk Garda station. They were of the people that savage acts such as the brutal doing so as part of the normal co-operation with murders of Chief Superintendent Harry Breen the Garda Sı´ocha´na in dealing with criminal and Superintendent Bob Buchanan by the Pro- activity on this island. They were two brave men visional IRA in 1989 should have no place in who travelled unarmed to Dundalk as part of this Republic. their duty and it is proper that people in this juris- Pursuant to the Weston Park agreement the diction bear that fact in mind. These were two State is under an obligation to establish a public brave Irishmen who were set upon by a gang of inquiry into the brutal murders of these two RUC murderous thugs and brutally murdered. officers. We do so not just out of an obligation Members of this House are justifiably outraged imposed morally upon us by Judge Cory’s report at the suggestion that the killers of Detective but out of a genuine desire to see justice done. If Garda Jerry McCabe should be released. In that there was collusion by officers or an officer of respect I am glad the Minister for Justice, the Garda Sı´ocha´na in this crime, the least the Equality and Law Reform was denied the happ- relatives of those two members of the RUC are iest day of his life in that he does not have to entitled to is to have that fact established, just as travel to Limerick to tell Mrs. McCabe that the much as the victims of other alleged acts of col- murderers of her husband would be released. In lusion are entitled to have justice and the truth a similar way let us bear in mind that the late established in their cases. Chief Superintendent Breen and Superintendent I must tell the House that I considered going Buchanan, two brave Irish policemen, also left down the road of a commission of inquiry but I widows and children when they were murdered. found it did not match up to the criteria laid down Chief Superintendent Breen was survived by his by Judge Cory. The form of public inquiry pro- wife, June, a daughter, Gillian, and a son, George. posed and its proposed terms of reference consti- Superintendent Buchanan was survived by his tute the most open, potentially expansive and wife Catherine, a son, William, and a daughter, powerful form of public inquiry available under Heather. We should bear in mind the human suf- 1625 Tribunals of Inquiry: 23 March 2005. Motion 1626 fering inflicted on those two families as a con- to meet in public. I ask the Minister to deal with sequence of this murderous act. We should also this aspect of the matter in his reply. relate our outrage at the suffering inflicted on It is important that the Minister spells out how Mrs. Ann McCabe and her family and, corre- the Government intends to address the issue of spondingly, record here in the Parliament of this large payments being made to lawyers. Mr. State our outrage at the suffering inflicted on the Justice Cory touched on this issue in his report widows and children of those two brave when he said: policemen. Time and costs can be reasonably controlled. This tribunal of inquiry is part of a package of For example, a maximum allowance could be measures. We want to investigate the killings of set for counsel appearing for every party others as part of that package and that will be granted standing. done under the auspices of the UK Government. It is noteworthy that Sinn Fe´in in particular has When he touched on this issue, he may have been been pressing for an examination of collusion anticipating the type of concerns I am expressing. between security forces in the North and loyalist In doing so, I think I am speaking on behalf of elements in respect of some of those murders. the public. Judge Cory said he is simply making The real test for Sinn Fe´in now is whether it will “suggestions for controlling the unnecessary be interested in securing justice and a full expose´ expenditure of public funds”. It is important that of the facts concerning the murders of Chief the Minister deals carefully with this aspect of Superintendent Breen and Superintendent the matter. Buchanan. If Sinn Fe´in is sincere in its commit- I am concerned that the terms of reference ment to seek justice for victims of alleged col- merely provide that “the inquiry shall be com- lusion, these two murders must be included, pleted in as economical a manner as possible and otherwise it will be seen to be phoney. Its at the earliest possible date consistent with a fair members will be the people who will be put to examination of the matters referred to it”. That the test in respect of this tribunal. Will they fully exact formula was used when the Flood and co-operate with the tribunal? Will they publicly Moriarty tribunals were being established. I do encourage others who have information about not want to be unfairly critical, but there are sig- these crimes to submit that information to the tri- nificant concerns about the enormous costs and bunal? In this case, by their fruits we shall know fees which were paid to lawyers during both tri- them. It will not be sufficient for them to do as bunals. The simple replication of a provision that they are doing regarding the murder in the Short was used on earlier occasions is not sufficient to Strand of Robert McCartney, with open denunci- allay my concerns about the establishment of ation and silent intimidation. Sinn Fe´in will be what could be regarded as another cash cow for put to the test in terms of the way it deals with the Law Library. I am not happy in this respect. the tribunal. I remind the Minister that he accepted an I have some questions about the terms of refer- amendment I tabled when the House considered ence of the tribunal. The first issue was touched the Commissions of Investigation Bill 2003. I on briefly by the Minister in his concluding would like that provision, which related to ten- remarks and I hoped he would deal dering, to be adopted again on this occasion. I 12 o’clock with them in more detail. Why are heard with interest the comments which were we dealing with the Tribunals of made recently by the former Minister for Fin- Inquiry (Evidence) Act 1921, as amended, ance, Mr. McCreevy, about maximum fees for tri- instead of setting up a commission of investi- bunals. I favour a tendering process that makes it gation under the recent Act? The purpose of the clear that the fees to be paid will have an upper commission of investigation approach was, to a limit, as suggested by Mr. McCreevy. We should large degree, to move away from the very expens- ask for fees to be set far below the current ive approach that applies under the Tribunals of thresholds. Inquiry (Evidence) Acts. I ask the Minister to I am somewhat unclear and unhappy about deal with this matter in his concluding remarks. another aspect of the terms of reference before I do not doubt that tribunals are getting a bad the House. I refer to the question of reports. I am name because of the huge expense associated disturbed that tribunals which have been estab- with them. My concern is shared by many lished by the House have assumed a life of their Deputies and citizens throughout the State. We own. We have received no reports from such tri- need to ensure that the tribunal we are estab- bunals. I refer in particular to the Moriarty tri- lishing does not degenerate into yet another cash bunal, which was established approximately eight cow for the Law Library set. It would not be years ago. I do not know what is happening in the acceptable for that to happen. Why was the com- tribunal, other than what I occasionally read in mission of investigation approach to getting facts the newspapers. It is absolutely essential that into the public domain, which seems to be more every tribunal that is established by the House direct and less expensive, not adopted by the report to it regularly. Government in this instance? When that I am not clear about how to interpret the con- approach was originally adopted it was intended tents of the terms of reference before the House. that commissions of investigation would meet I accept that the tribunal should produce an largely in private, but it is also possible for them interim report shortly after it has been estab- 1627 Tribunals of Inquiry: 23 March 2005. Motion 1628

[Mr. J. O’Keeffe.] Mr. McDowell: One of the policemen had a lished — within three months. It is obvious that white handkerchief in his hand when he was the tribunal will map out what it intends to do in found. such a report. I am not sure that the House will receive reports thereafter, however. The terms of Mr. J. O’Keeffe: The white handkerchief, reference state that the tribunal will issue a report which reminds me of Bishop Daly, did not inspire to the Da´il “as soon as may be after the tenth day any reaction on the part of the alleged patriots of any oral hearings of the Tribunal”. What does who carried out the murders, other than to con- that mean? Does it mean it will have to produce tinue their brutal and murderous activity. Will the a report after every ten sittings? I ask the Mini- information required by the tribunal we are ster to clarify this matter or to amend the terms establishing be forthcoming? Will those who are of reference, if necessary. I fully accept that the in a position to do so encourage and put pressure decision to require the tribunal to produce an on those who have information to come forward? initial interim report represents the right If they do not do so, they will be seen to be approach, but we should receive reports at utterly phoney when they protest that they want reasonably regular intervals of three months, or allegations of collusion, North and South, to be six months at the very most, thereafter. fully investigated. We have not been given an estimate of how I ask the Minister to deal with the issues I have long the work of the tribunal will take. I have raised. While I have raised concerns about the no idea how long it will take. The estimates of terms of reference and the costings, I have not durations which were made when previous tri- done so in a political fashion. I am happy to sup- bunals were being established turned out to be port the motion before the House. totally for the birds. The work of other tribunals, which were supposed to finish within 12 months, Mr. Costello: I welcome the Minister’s motion is continuing five years later. The Minister should to establish a tribunal of inquiry into the killings clarify this aspect of the matter. of Chief Superintendent Harry Breen and Super- It is important for the country that the tribunal intendent Robert Buchanan. Judge Cory has being established today work well and effectively. done valuable work and recommended a valuable We are fortunate that Judge Cory has done a mechanism with which to proceed. He said a great deal of the preliminary work so well. The senior judge should be appointed to carry out an Cory report is a model that I would like to be investigation, on foot of which prima facie evi- followed when inquiries are being made into dence would indicate whether there was a need other matters. for an in-depth investigation resulting in a tri- It is absolutely essential that the House state bunal of inquiry. In this case, the judge is in no clearly that it expects everybody who is in a posi- doubt that there must be a tribunal of inquiry. tion to provide information to the tribunal to do The mechanism recommended constitutes the so. We expect such people to come forward to proper preliminary approach to take to matters provide such information. It is important that all of this nature. parties in the House — I refer in particular to The proposed tribunal will be the first in this Sinn Fe´in — make it clear that they want the full jurisdiction which relates to the killings which facts to be unearthed. They should send out a took place during the 30 years of the Troubles in message, stating that they want all information to Northern Ireland. It is welcome. We have spent be made available, in a genuine manner rather many days, weeks and months examining the two than speaking from both sides of their mouths. excellent reports produced by Mr. Justice Barron. Pressure needs to be brought to bear on those The cases he examined involved a considerable who have information about who committed the number of Irish citizens who had been murdered murders and about whether such people received against a background of allegations of collusion. information from anyone else to assist them to Unfortunately, we have not seen a tribunal of do so. inquiry although we have requested that the Brit- It is clear that the murders of Chief Superin- ish Government establish the Weston Park tendent Harry Breen and Superintendent Bob inquiry in the first instance to determine what the Buchanan were committed by members of the prima facie evidence indicates. Contrary to the Provisional IRA. Two brave and unarmed police- response here, there has been no response in men who were working in the interests of this Britain to the Weston Park proposals. We must country were gunned down by members of the redouble our efforts to ensure the initial inquiry Provisional IRA. The admission of responsibility process is set in motion to determine whether a made by the IRA immediately after the killings tribunal of inquiry can be established in the juris- contained some of that organisation’s usual lying diction of Northern Ireland or Great Britain or, comments. It claimed that the “IRA volunteers” for that matter, here. feared their lives could be in danger and that they The motion before us is the result of the took “preventative action” on that basis. How Weston Park negotiations in which the British could the lives of people with armalites be in and Irish Governments undertook to examine danger, given that they were facing two unarmed certain serious assassinations involving alle- policemen in a car that was blocked in by other gations of collusion. Of the two incidents affect- vehicles? ing this jurisdiction, the one involving Lord 1629 Tribunals of Inquiry: 23 March 2005. Motion 1630

Justice Gibson and his wife was not the subject gated, we will not know. I welcome a full tribunal of a recommendation to hold an inquiry. There before which witnesses can be compelled to has been a recommendation to hold an inquiry appear and give evidence. I see no reason that we into the killings of Mr. Breen and Mr. Buchanan, should not expect all people connected with the which is why the motion under discussion is matter to give evidence. I hope there is no ques- before us. It was also recommended that the Brit- tion of any garda, retired or otherwise, failing to ish Government should establish inquiries in the come forward voluntarily. cases of Rosemary Nelson, Pat Finucane and Equally, I expect the perpetrators of the killing Billy Wright. I would have expected a reciprocal to come forward to give evidence. If they are in approach to have been adopted given that the this jurisdiction, they should be compelled to Weston Park proposals were formulated under appear and, if they are not, I expect them to vol- the aegis of Judge Cory who recommended each unteer. It has not been long since the Bloody Sun- of the inquiries in question. Will the Minister day inquiry which involved all sorts of arguments ensure that action is taken on the recommend- about who should give evidence and in what man- ations as a matter of urgency? ner they should provide it. Some British soldiers The Weston Park talks took place in 2001 and gave their evidence from behind a screen, their it took Judge Cory 18 months to produce his identities being withheld. We must approach the recommendations, which he did in September tribunal as one would approach the Bloody Sun- 2003. Having been given Judge Cory’s report, it day inquiry into the killings of innocent civilians. took the Minister a further 18 months to bring While Mr. Breen and Mr. Buchanan were, as forward the motion to establish the inquiry. The members of the RUC, in the security forces, they delay was unnecessary. Swift action is best. If one were shot down in cold blood with the coup de establishes a process, it should be ongoing in nat- grłce probably being delivered after they were ure and avoid any hiatus during which it is dead. unclear what approach will be adopted. An early This is a serious matter with serious con- Cabinet decision could have been taken to allow sequences for the rule of law in Ireland and the the motion to come before the House 12 months way we conduct our affairs. I am delighted, there- ago. If that had been done, the inquiry could have fore, that the motion has been brought forward been completed by now. I would like the Minister and that we will be the first to establish a tribunal to explain when summing up why the initiative to of inquiry although it may well be that the find- establish a tribunal of inquiry was not taken in ings have adverse consequences for the Garda the House before now. Sı´ocha´na. There must be full participation by The investigation Judge Cory undertook was everyone involved. I appeal to Sinn Fe´in and the interesting. There is scope in reading his report IRA to indicate publicly that they are prepared to interpret it in two ways and it is difficult to to participate in this inquiry. They are the only identify which is stronger. Given the high level of ones who know the full extent of information Provisional IRA activity on both sides of the available at the time of the ambush and the Border in the general Dundalk area and the killing. strength of the organisation in the late 1980s, the assassinations of Mr. Breen and Mr. Buchanan Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in: That is not true. could easily have occurred without direct col- lusion. There may or may not have been a mole Mr. Costello: There are no two ways about it, within the Garda in Dundalk. However, Judge it is a simple fact. Either they had information Cory produced special branch and military intelli- from the Garda or they did not. Certain people gence documents which identified individuals can conclusively determine the outcome of this who were supposed to have been providing infor- tribunal with a factual and definitive response. mation to the Provisional IRA. The documents Regarding costs, we are all frustrated at how outlined specific information said to have been tribunals appear to go on forever and how law- provided on 20 March 1989 from Dundalk Garda yers are endlessly enriched as legal representa- station. The man known as Mr. Kevin Fulton tives in tribunals. Judge Cory stated that this tri- made a very precise statement to Judge Cory. bunal should not be a source of enrichment for Given the totality of the information available to senior counsel. We would like the Minister to him, I agree with Judge Cory that a full inquiry indicate the measures he will take to ensure this is appropriate. does not happen. The other side of the coin involves trust and Deputy Jim O’Keeffe made an excellent confidence in the Garda Sı´ocha´na. We must be suggestion regarding the tendering out of the pro- sure of what happened on the day in question and cess. Why can it not be done in such a way? Legal discover whether two senior Northern Ireland representation should be asked to tender their police officers were informed on by a member of services for this work. To do that it would be the Garda or civilians in Dundalk Garda station. necessary to have a clear idea of the aim of the We must establish whether there was collusion tribunal, its duration and the intensiveness of between a member of the Garda and a member the representation. of a paramilitary organisation. If collusion It is necessary to be clear about who is entitled occurred, there will be serious ramifications for to legal representation. We have the incredible the Garda. Until the matter is properly investi- situation in the Morris tribunal where the central 1631 Tribunals of Inquiry: 23 March 2005. Motion 1632

[Mr. Costello.] Mr. F. McGrath: I am pleased to have an figures have no entitlement to legal represen- opportunity to speak in the debate on the tribunal tation although many other entities are rep- of inquiry into the fatal killing of RUC Chief resented. As I understand it, the Minister’s legal Superintendent Harry Breen and RUC Superin- representative is still on a retainer although he tendent Robert Buchanan in 1989. I consider this does not attend the tribunal. We cannot allow as another part of the peace process. It is essential that to continue. There must be clear guidelines that truth and justice are the key elements to this as to how the legal representation is provided and inquiry. These horrific deaths, like many others, what will be the cost. were terrible events for all the families involved. We should not continue with per diem costings, I offer my deepest sympathy to the victims in this we should get a costing for the job. Per diem cost- case and to all the victims of the Northern ings are a recipe for a tribunal to go on ad infi- Ireland Troubles. nitum, beat around the bushes and ultimately This issue also raises the question of collusion. come up with very little. The Minister had prom- It is important that we all face up to these diffi- ised to amend the Tribunals of Inquiry culties and I hope we will learn from them so that (Evidence) (Amendment) Acts to provide for the we can take the gun out of Irish politics and make regulation of costs and other matters. Why has democratic politics work for all people on this that not come before the House so that we can island. It is also important that we treat all victims determine the appropriate method of setting with the same respect. We must acknowledge the costs for future tribunals? I accept that a deadline pain and suffering of all the victims of the conflict will be fixed for existing tribunals and that there over the 30-year period. Truth and justice will has been some adjustment in regard to costs, but lead to forgiveness and, I hope, healing in the what will happen with tribunals in future? That long term. legislation should come before the House without Most people on the island want this process to delay. It should have been introduced so that we work. It is up to all Members of this House and could debate the issue and make decisions in our colleagues in the North to face up to the regard to it. major problems related to the conflict. Although I hope we will have regular referrals back to in today’s climate it may be unpopular, I stand by the House. The motion states that a referral will the architects of the peace process. I am not be made to the House on an interim basis not jumping ship when things get tough. Good politi- later than three months from the date of estab- cal leadership is always difficult and we need it lishment of the tribunal and as soon as may be now more than ever. There is no room for the after the tenth day of any oral hearings of the faint-hearted or for people to walk away from the tribunal. I repeat Deputy Jim O’Keeffe’s inquiry peace process. as to what is meant by “as soon as may be after the tenth day of any oral hearings”. We need to Mr. McDowell: Hear, hear. be made aware of what is happening on a regular basis. I do not believe we have ever had a report Mr. F. McGrath: It is the people’s movement from the Moriarty tribunal. There needs to be an and we have to stick with the people through in-built requirement for a report. However, just these difficult times. All sides in the conflict per- because regular reports would issue should not petrated terrible deeds and we have to face up to mean that a tribunal would go on for ever. We this harsh reality. We must listen to and support should definitively tie down where we intend to people like the McCartney and Finucane families go from the start. and the victims of the Dublin and Monaghan I compliment the Minister on setting up this bombings of 1972 and 1974. This must be done in tribunal, which should have been set up earlier. a non-political way. There has been a serious miscarriage of justice in I challenge those who use victims to score pol- regard to the Dean Lyons case. The Minister itical points. There is no room for such behaviour should announce the setting up of a tribunal into in any peace process. I urge all Deputies to be that matter. That case raises a major question measured, calm and caring in their comments. We mark over the behaviour of the Garda in terms owe it to the people of Ireland, North and South. of investigations. Regarding the broader issue of collusion, I hope we can open this can of worms. That is why I Acting Chairman (Dr. Cowley): That is not welcome and support this debate and this inquiry. relevant. I have a concern regarding public inquiries into Northern-related issues. Many victims, especially Mr. Costello: If the two had come side by side the victims of the 1974 Dublin and Monaghan it would go a long way towards dealing with bombings, find it galling that the Government serious questions that still exist in regard to the would set up a public inquiry into this incident behaviour of certain gardaı´. while turning its back on a similar inquiry into the 1974 Dublin and Monaghan bombings. Many Mr. F. McGrath: I wish to share time with of them are convinced that the political establish- Deputy O´ Caola´in and Deputy Cuffe. ment in this State and in the North are not paying attention to their genuine concerns on the issue Acting Chairman: Is that agreed? Agreed. of collusion. Many of them have questions about 1633 Tribunals of Inquiry: 23 March 2005. Motion 1634 the role of the RUC and the running of Unionist died in the political conflict on this island should paramilitaries and their activities in regard to be acknowledged and remembered. The grief of bombings and killings. We have to face up to their relatives and friends must be acknowledged that reality. also. More than 3,500 died in the conflict. They Is the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law were men, women, children, civilians, combatants Reform aware of these serious issues relating to and members of all the armed groups, both state collusion by the RUC and one individual in the and non-state. All armed forces involved in the context of this inquiry? Is he aware of statements conflict inflicted death and injury. They need to made by John Weir in regard to the same individ- acknowledge that. Some have done so while ual referred to in the context of this inquiry? others have not. The British Government has When policemen and members of the security never acknowledged its role in the armed conflict forces become directly involved in acts of viol- in our country. In particular, it has never admit- ence which includes kidnap, murder and bomb- ted its use of collusion throughout the conflict ing, the same police force does not deserve the since 1969. No one who has seriously and hon- trust and respect of the community. It is not a estly studied this conflict over the past 36 years question of a few bad apples, it is a question of doubts that there was systematic collusion collusion in the North going right to the top. It between British forces and loyalist paramilitaries. was a stated policy all through the Troubles. We The most murderous loyalist paramilitary all know what was going on and I would like it to group, the Ulster Defence Association, which come out in this tribunal of inquiry. operated under the cover name of the Ulster Last night I received a call from a victim of the Freedom Fighters, was co-founded in 1971 by 1974 Dublin bombing whose father was killed in Charles Harding-Smith, a self-confessed British Parnell Street and he, the caller, is full of shrap- intelligence agent. The British Army’s military nel. This victim is convinced that one of the men reaction force was established by Brigadier Frank named in this inquiry had strong links with Kitson, the leading counter-insurgency officer, to Unionist paramilitaries. There is evidence of the co-ordinate the British military and the loyalist Down Orange Welfare, a group of RUC officers death squads. Throughout the conflict British who supplied guns to the UVF. There is also forces were guided by the British Army’s training strong and credible evidence about senior RUC manual, Land Operations, Volume III — Coun- officers attending meetings with loyalist para- ter-insurgency Options, which defines its role as militaries and that they were up to the their necks “Liaison with, and organisation, training and con- in collusion and illegal activities. The person who trol of, friendly guerilla forces operating against supplied the explosives in the 1974 bombings was the common enemy”. best man at the wedding of one of these individ- uals. I raise these issues to ensure we get a That is the basis of collusion. It is not ancient balanced debate and I will not accept lectures history, but is relevant right up to the present. from any Minister or Government, either here or The British Government has introduced legis- in Britain, on these important matters. lation, the Inquiries Bill, which is designed to On page 51, chapter 12, section 141 of the final prevent any realistic inquiry into the murder of report on the Report of the Independent Com- Patrick Finucane or that of any other victim of mission of Inquiry into the Dublin Bombings of collusion between British forces and loyalist 1972 and 1973, it is stated: death squads. That legislation will empower a British minister to order an inquiry to be held The Sub-Committee deplores the fact that it behind closed doors. Judge Peter Cory, who has received no co-operation from the recommended the inquiry being established Northern Irish or British authorities. This today, has severely criticised this legislation. He report has previously pointed out that under has advised his colleague judges in Canada not to the heading Reconciliation and Victims of participate in any inquiry under such legislation. Violence, the Good Friday Agreement states British ministers and military will still have the “The participants believe that it is essential to controlling hand when it comes to the release of acknowledge and address the suffering of the information. We have seen how they have used victims of violence as a necessary element of that power. reconciliation.” It seems impossible to reconcile Very little attention has been given to the most the stance of the Northern Irish or British recent report of the Oireachtas committee estab- Authorities with this element of the lished on foot of the Barron report. That commit- Agreement. tee severely reprimands the British Prime Mini- I welcome the debate and I will support it. I hope ster for his refusal to establish an inquiry, as we have broader debates about inquiries that will called for by the Oireachtas, into the Dublin and help us deal with the dark and sinister secrets of Monaghan bombings. It goes further and states the past 30 years. We owe it to all the victims and that his action is in breach of the Good Friday I stress the last three words. Agreement. The British Secretary of State, the Northern Ireland Office and the PSNI refuse to Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in: Sinn Fe´in does not co-operate in any meaningful way with the oppose this motion. We are in favour of a process Barron investigation or with the work of the of truth recovery. The tragic loss of all those who Oireachtas committee. 1635 Tribunals of Inquiry: 23 March 2005. Motion 1636

[Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in.] pate in an Irish Cabinet. These are, perhaps, What is the situation now? Today the unpalatable facts for many Deputies in the House Oireachtas is establishing a full-blown public to accept, but they must be acknowledged if this inquiry into the alleged collusion of a member or debate is to have any basis in reality. There members of the Garda Sı´ocha´na into the killing should be no hierarchy of victims and in all this of senior RUC officers, Harry Breen and Robert the focus should be on rebuilding the peace pro- Buchanan, in 1989, yet no public inquiry into the cess so that never again will any person die as a murder of Patrick Finucane has been established. result of armed or political conflict in this coun- Even more outrageously, we have had no public try. It is probably too much to hope that the Mini- inquiry in either jurisdiction into the Dublin and ster might share in the active pursuit of that Monaghan bombings of nearly 31 years ago or objective, but I still invite him to join us in this into any of the incidents in which at least 47 effort. people died in the Twenty-six Counties, killed as a result of collusion or directly by British forces. Mr. Cuffe: It is a dangerous precedent to equ- An attempt has been made by the Minister for ate the atrocities of 1916 and the early 1920s with Justice, Equality and Law Reform, by fellow those which took place 16 years ago. There is a Unionists and sections of the media to equate an quantum difference in the level of injustice that alleged collusion of a garda or gardaı´ in the kill- occurred on this island at those two different ing of these two RUC officers with widespread times. The Green Party welcomes the legislation and systematic collusion between British forces, to examine the IRA ambush of RUC Chief including the RUC and the loyalist paramilitaries. Superintendent Harry Breen and Superintendent This is not done out of any desire for truth or Robert Buchanan. We are concerned, nonethe- justice. It is presented as a debating point and as less, at the delay in setting up this tribunal which an attempt to put Sinn Fe´in in the wrong when we is aimed at investigating allegations of Garda col- highlight the responsibility of successive British lusion in the murder of two senior RUC officers Governments for collusion. That is the blatant 16 years ago. It was in 2003 that the Minister and bald truth of it. announced there was to be a public inquiry into Let us make matters clear for the Minister, allegations of Garda collusion surrounding the Deputy Jim O’Keeffe and anyone else who wants IRA murder of these two senior officers. We to know. have waited two years for this motion to come before the House. Mr. J. O’Keeffe: Does the Deputy support the These men were shot dead on 20 March 1989 at tribunal of inquiry? an IRA checkpoint near Jonesborough, County Armagh, as they returned from a security meeting ´ Caoimhghı´nOCaola´in: Anyone with relevant with the Garda Sı´ocha´na in Dundalk. Under the information should come forward to assist this terms of the Weston Park agreement of 2001, the inquiry. Canadian judge, Peter Cory, was appointed to investigate allegations of collusion between Brit- Mr. J. O’Keeffe: Does the Deputy support the ish and Irish security forces and paramilitaries in inquiry? six cases in Northern Ireland. Judge Cory recom- mended that an inquiry be held into the deaths Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in: The British Govern- ment has never admitted to collusion in any form. of the two men. He said an investigation should It has never acknowledged its responsibility for be opened to inquire into allegations of Garda the many deaths it caused as a result of collusion. collusion into the deaths and, having examined This was a major part of its war in Ireland which the claims of gardaı´ based at the Dundalk station, claimed many lives. The primary responsibility in he believed that information was passed on to the the search for truth rests with that Government. provisional IRA on the movements of the two The IRA has admitted its involvement in the kill- RUC officers after the cross-Border security ing of these two RUC officers. It saw this attack talks. He believed that this evidence, if accepted, as an act of war. These were officers of the British could be found to constitute collusion. We wel- state in Ireland. Both of them played key roles in come the tribunal and commend the work of the conflict. Their deaths were no different from Judge Cory, but why was there such a delay in those of senior officers in the RIC who were shot establishing this tribunal when it was agreed at in similar circumstances during the 1919 to 1921 Weston Park in 2001 that the two Governments period. would implement his recommendations? We should not look at this incident in isolation, Mr. J. O’Keeffe: Rubbish. we should look at atrocities on all sides. If we establish separate tribunals of investigation into Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in: Of course the Deputy each of the many atrocities that took place, we would say that. It was actions such as that which will become overburdened with bureaucracy and led directly to the foundation of this State. Except red tape. We should look at the South African for actions of that type, the Minister’s grand- Truth and Reconciliation Commission model, father, Eoin MacNeill, would never have been a where a single tribunal looked at all atrocities, a Cabinet Minister and neither would there have clear and quick way of getting to the heart of the been an opportunity for this Minister to partici- injustices and concerns experienced by all sides. 1637 Tribunals of Inquiry: 23 March 2005. Motion 1638

Tribunals are costly and people are becoming I have a particular interest in the Dublin bomb- cynical about their length and the expense ing, an issue that affected many of my constitu- involved. ents. I remember the shock and horror of those This is, however, a step in the right direction events, particularly people not knowing where and we support this proposal. There should be family members were and waiting for them to greater feedback to the Houses of the Oireachtas arrive back. All those killings sent shock waves and we ask the Minister to incorporate a system through the State and it is right that we do not of ongoing progress reports to the Houses. forget them. Given the allegations made about the gardaı´, The events we are discussing in this motion we in the Green Party remain concerned about took place in 1989 and even those of us who did the level and quality of initial training of gardaı´ not know these individuals are entitled to be in Templemore and about ongoing in-service shocked at the manner in which they died and training. Concerns were expressed at the week- the manner in which these acts were supposedly end that the Garda training college cannot handle perpetrated on behalf of the Irish people. They the increase in Garda numbers. The allegations were not, and everyone in Ireland was deeply arising from this IRA ambush reflect badly on the shocked by them, as they were by many others. Garda and demonstrate that there must be root I commend the Minister for bringing this and branch reform of the force. I am not con- motion to the House. I hope all parties will sup- vinced that the Minister’s proposals will go to the port the Minister and allow him to establish the heart of Garda training. We support this motion. tribunal so it can carry out its business. We should remember the motion refers to events on 20 Mr. O’Connor: As a member of the Joint Com- March 1989, when two serving RUC officers were mittee on Justice, Equality, Defence and shot dead in what was described as an ambush Women’s Rights, I welcome the opportunity to just north of the Border. They were returning from a meeting with a senior Garda officer in speak on this motion and to compliment the Dundalk Garda station and the Provisional IRA Minister. I have never disguised my admiration claimed responsibility for the shooting. Some col- for the Minister’s work. He is having a difficult leagues have used the word collusion, but there week — even as we speak there is a crowd at the were allegations that a garda or a civilian gates on Kildare Street chanting his name. He has employed in the force advised those directly been under pressure and, like Deputy Curran last responsible for the killing or members of their night, I compliment him for being in the House. organisation of the visit of the two RUC officers As a result of their busy schedules, Ministers are to Dundalk. There are suggestions the person often unable to be present but the Minister is advised them of the time the RUC men left the here and it is good that he hears our con- Garda station in Dundalk. tributions. As part of the Weston Park agreement, the It is important to note that nearly all parties British and Irish Governments made a commit- support this motion, although reservations have ment that if a public inquiry was recommended been expressed. This business, however, will be in any case, the relevant Government would warmly welcomed and will enjoy widespread sup- implement that recommendation. Accordingly, port. The Joint Committee on Justice, Equality, the Irish Government is committed to holding an Defence and Women’s Rights is very busy. It inquiry into allegations of Garda collusion in the meets several times every week and deals with killings of the two RUC officers. many issues. This morning we dealt with sub- I am critical of the failure of the UK admin- missions on community policing. That is meaning- istration, particularly in Northern Ireland, to co- ful work where those of us involved make a con- operate with the Oireachtas joint committee deal- tribution. ing with the Barron report. I am not afraid to say There is a sense that the public want closure on as much because at this point in Irish history, these matters. It has been said that there is no given the progress that has been made and the place in Irish politics for the violence, murder and wish to ensure enduring peace on this island, mayhem that we experienced on all sides. I am every co-operation should be given to investi- no apologist for the British establishment and can gations and tribunals. There are still many unre- be critical of the British Government. solved issues surrounding the Barron report and There is no question that we must remember I believe that the Minister, like me, would be all those who were murdered, and those of us happy to see progress and, indeed, closure in that who are elected should not be afraid to say that. regard. There are still issues relating to that Particular emphasis has been placed on the cases matter on the Minister’s desk and I wish him well of Pat Finucane, Robert Hamill, Rosemary Nel- in dealing with them. son, Billy Wright, Lord Justice Gibson and his On 16 December 2003 the Minister announced wife and the two men about whom we are speak- that the Government would hold a public inquiry ing today, Chief Superintendent Harry Breen and into the murder of these officers. He also Superintendent Bob Buchanan. The Minister has announced that the public inquiry would take the explained why we are only getting to this business form of a tribunal of inquiry, pursuant to the Tri- today and it is important that we deal with these bunals of Inquiry (Evidence) (Amendment) Acts, issues and move on. and that he would give the tribunal the scope to 1639 Tribunals of Inquiry: 23 March 2005. Motion 1640

[Mr. O’Connor.] ment, legitimate politics and legitimate means of inquire into the allegations that employees of the achieving one’s political aims. That is relevant at State colluded in that fatal shooting. The Minister any time but it is particularly relevant during further announced that the terms of reference of Easter week when we recall our history and the the tribunal would be drafted in consultation with origin of this State. I hope today’s business will the Attorney General and would be the subject be seen in that positive light. of a Government decision and approval by the The Minister has been under much political Oireachtas. On 6 July last, the Government auth- pressure this week but I hope he is aware of the orised the Minister to lay the necessary resol- support he has in introducing this measure today. utions before the Houses of the Oireachtas to There is a belief that this matter should progress enable the establishment of the tribunal of as quickly and effectively as possible. As other inquiry according to the formulation contained in Members have mentioned, with a political motive the appendix, which constitutes the tribunal’s which I do not share, this tribunal need not go on terms of reference. forever. That is not what the public wants or what It is important that this motion has wide sup- the victims and families expect. It is important port in the House. I appeal to colleagues to sup- that the tribunal is established quickly, does its port it. It is time these matters were dealt with business and is encouraged to report as quickly as and we moved on. While people are entitled to possible. The last thing we want is another long- make political references and points, we are deal- running tribunal. ing with serious business and we must make pro- I look forward to supporting the Government gress. Other colleagues and the Minister have on this motion. paid tribute to Judge Peter Cory, the retired Can- adian Supreme Court judge, and I am happy to Mr. Crawford: I welcome the opportunity to agree with them. It is important to recognise the speak on this important motion. Although I do tremendous service he has given in this matter. not like delving into history — I believe we The terms of reference given to Judge Cory should live in the present and not in the past — were to review all the relevant papers in the there must be closure on certain matters. I have cases, including the records of earlier investi- in mind the victims of the Dublin and Monaghan gations; to interview anybody who he believed bombings — I knew many of the Monaghan vic- could assist with the examination; to establish the tims personally — the situation in Belturbet, facts as far as practicable and subject to the law of Castleblayney and the recent Omagh bombing. the various jurisdictions; and to keep the relevant These events wreaked havoc on our island home governments informed of progress in a reason- and everybody wants to move forward from able manner. The judge was asked to submit them. reports, including in circumstances where there The savage death of two policemen doing their was an insufficient basis to establish the facts in a daily work cannot be forgotten. The fact that they case. He was further asked to ensure that the were ambushed and then blown to bits by gunfire reports would include recommendations for is something we wish to forget. If there is doubt further action, including the holding of a public about why and how this happened, it is important inquiry. there is a full investigation, which is also true of The judge was requested to hear the views of the Pat Finucane case and other cases. These the victims’ families and to keep them informed were not just two policemen but two family men. of progress. In all crime, particularly a horren- They were simply doing a job. It was a job they dous crime such as this, the victims are sometimes undertook when they left school or college. Many forgotten. It is important that legislators bear that people in the police forces North and South in mind and continue to stress to the Department joined the forces at a time when other jobs were the need to bring forward recommendations and not plentiful. It was wrong to pinpoint them as proposals which support victims. I am aware of criminals or people who should be murdered. the ongoing issue of the future of Victim Support Some people ask me what I have done for the and I have received a number of representations peace process. I did not take part in or support in that regard. The victims of the incident we are this type of criminal activity. I tried to work discussing today need closure. They will be behind the scenes through farm watching today’s proceedings with great interest 1 o’clock organisations, the co-operative and concern. They will be anxious to see progress movement and other organisations and the prospect of closure. throughout the Thirty-two Counties. I make no Judge Cory delivered six reports to the two apologies for saying that. I try to build bridges governments, two to the Irish Government and between the different communities. Many four to the British Government, in October 2003. worked in ways that were not as high flying as He made the point that his investigation will, in others claim. I want to see peace on this island a small measure, contribute to the difficult task and I want to see the people living and working of achieving peace and reconciliation in Northern together. Ireland. It is important, during Easter week, to We must consider how this happened and the recall our history and to bear in mind that peace Minister spelt it out clearly in his speech. The is the issue. All Members have spoken about sup- location of the ambush on the Edenappa road porting peace initiatives, the Good Friday Agree- was found by Judge Cory to be well chosen in 1641 Tribunals of Inquiry: 23 March 2005. Motion 1642 terms of topography and tree cover with respect get it right. We must deal with this issue properly to nearby British army observation posts. This so that the victims can have closure. I commend was a well planned ambush and the only intention the Minister on setting up the tribunal. As he was to murder these two RUC officers. Many knows from last night, I do not always agree with other RUC officers died from cancer and other him, but that is a different story. related illnesses because of the pressure under Deputy O´ Caola´in and I have a good relation- which they worked at that time. I had relatives in ship on a personal basis and I have nothing that category. against him. However, the Provisional IRA and From a review of the relevant factors, Judge Sinn Finn Fe´in must be up front on this, as it is Cory states that there may not be Garda involve- part and parcel of the overall peace process ment. However, it is important that such an issue agreed in Weston Park. There is no point in com- be cleared and Fine Gael supports the setting up ing out with statements claiming to want to end of this tribunal to that end. Nonetheless, we do criminality. Actions speak louder than words. I not want this to be a gravy train. Too many tri- want to see peace work. At a recent meeting on bunals have been set up in this House and have peace issues, I pointed out that the project to become gravy trains for barristers, solicitors and develop the Ulster canal along the border, which so on. We do not want that and there must be a has the support of all political parties, is now limitation on funds. Otherwise, tribunals will con- being held up due to the fact that the Northern tinue to bring a bad name on this House. If they Ireland Assembly is not in action. The sooner we cost a great amount of money and seem to con- can get the peace process going properly, the tinue indefinitely, that is no good. We want tri- better for all of us on this island. bunals tied down to do their job properly at mini- mum cost. Mr. Glennon: I fully support this motion. I was It is important that we get our thoughts anxious to speak on it as I have a vivid and per- together. There is no point in saying that we will sonal recollection of one of the incidents, the sub- support this unless we make sure that those that ject of Judge Cory’s report. This was the incident have the evidence actually provide it. Other surrounding the brutal murder of Lord and Lady reports and tribunals have been set up in Gibson. On that morning, I was sitting in a dress- Northern Ireland and some of the people that ing room in Dublin preparing to go to the first demanded them refused to give evidence because rugby world cup. It was a beautiful spring morn- it did not suit them. The British authorities, the ing and we were shocked to be told that three of Irish Government and especially the Provisional our colleagues had been involved in a bombing IRA must give the evidence. Otherwise, there is incident on their way to training. The three col- no point in issuing statements claiming to be leagues, for whom I continue to have the highest opposed to criminality and so on. Now that respect, were Nigel Carr, David Irwin and Philip people have been given the opportunity in this Rainey. They were going about their normal lives tribunal to come forward and give the evidence as young, athletic men who were considerably on what happened, they must do so. Otherwise, younger than myself. They were travelling to it will be difficult for the tribunal to reach a con- Dublin in pursuit of what for each of them was a clusion. If we do not have a conclusion, then we lifetime’s ambition — to represent Ireland on the will not have closure. international sporting field. It was the first ever Closure is so very important. Over the years, I rugby world cup. These three highly experienced have dealt with the Coulsonfamily in Clones, and outstanding athletes had the misfortune to be where my late colleague, Senator Willie Fox was driving along the road at Killeen in the opposite murdered. The thing that still rankles with that direction to Lord Justice Gibson and his wife at family is the lack of closure and the lack of sup- precisely the wrong instant. When the bomb that port from the State. George Coulson’s wife killed Lord Justice and Lady Gibson was deton- passed away this year with cancer. They have ated, the immediate side effect was that the lived with a trauma over the past 30 years that no engine of the Gibsons’ car was blown approxi- one will ever understand. As I already said, it is mately 40 feet in the air and landed on the bonnet not just about the two RUC officers who died in of the car driven by Nigel Carr. David Irwin, who this case, but it is also about what their families was in the passenger seat, was able to get out of have had to endure since then. The Minister men- the car. Nigel Carr was very fortunate in that tioned the Gibson case in his speech. As it hap- Irwin was a general practitioner and was able to pens, I know close contacts of that family. They minimise the injuries involved. If I remember cor- were murdered because of who they were and rectly, Philip Rainey was sitting in the back of the what they represented. car and was relatively unscathed. It is important that we find out why Superin- Whenever we speak of the consequences of the tendent Harry Breen and Superintendent Robert Troubles in the North, however, everything is Buchanan were murdered in 1989. They were always relative. In the overall scheme of things, murdered in an ambush that may or may not have this incident made a huge impact on me as well been leaked to the Garda Sı´ocha´na. It is as on all my colleagues. These three friends were important that the Garda Sı´ocha´na be cleared of not of our political persuasion, yet they stood as that. I do not know whether the terms of refer- proudly as we did for Amhra´n na bhFiann in ence of the tribunal are available, but we must Lansdowne Road. At that time, the national 1643 Tribunals of Inquiry: 23 March 2005. Motion 1644

[Mr. Glennon.] ularly of the victims of the Dublin bombings. It is anthem was not played at away venues. They equally necessary for the families of the disap- compromised not only that aspect of their lives peared. Jean McConville’s name is etched on but several other aspects also in the pursuit of everybody’s mind and will be for a long time but honest and innocent sporting endeavour. I have her family have had closure. There are many always been proud that rugby has played an ines- others who have not, so closure is required for timable part in keeping the different parts of our them. island together. It has done so for many years and I commend the Minister on his diligence in pur- long may it continue. suing this matter. I look forward to a dignified This was a day of embarrassment for us and it process of inquiry that will not feature any is still a matter of embarrassment whenever I unseemly squabbles over trivial issues but will meet my sporting colleagues. In fairness to them, focus on the tribunal’s overall purpose. I com- I must say that they are probably embarrassed by mend the motion to the House. it also. They saw it as their bad luck to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. They shared that Mr. Rabbitte: This debate takes place against a bad luck with so many others on the island over background of commitments made by two such a long period. It happened to be them on Governments but reneged upon by one of them. that occasion. I am glad to have the opportunity As long ago as May 2002, the British and Irish of referring to that incident in a personal context. Governments announced the joint appointment For the purpose of closure and the very neces- of a judge of international standing to investigate sary purposes of the peace process, it is vital that allegations of collusion between their respective this inquiry into the tragic deaths of the two RUC security forces and paramilitary bodies. officers should take place. It is essential for us all As the Minister has said, Judge Peter Cory’s that the tribunal of inquiry be accorded the fullest investigation covered six cases: the murders of and most honest co-operation by everybody. Chief Superintendent Harry Breen and Superin- Equally, the dignity of the inquiry should not be tendent Bob Buchanan, Pat Finucane, Robert demeaned by an unseemly squabble over its cost. Hamill, Rosemary Nelson, Billy Wright, and Lord That is not to say that I believe there should be Justice and Lady Gibson. Deputy Glennon has a blank cheque — far from it. However, if there vividly described the circumstances surrounding is anything remotely approaching a blank cheque the murders of the last two people. The parts of and the cost of the inquiry becomes an issue, we the Cory report delivered to the Government will be doing a serious disservice to both men at were published first and with reasonable prompt- the heart of the inquiry. We will also be doing a ness. They were seen to be clear, simple and serious disservice yet again to ourselves as legis- accessible. Judge Cory was rightly thanked for his lators. I know the Minister has strong views in work and a commitment to a public inquiry in this regard, so I urge him to implement them as this jurisdiction was made. far as he possibly can given the constraints within It is clear from the reports that there are com- which he must operate. The gravy train is no pelling grounds for a public inquiry into the mur- longer acceptable in so far as tribunals are con- ders of Chief Superintendent Breen and Superin- cerned. We must not detract from the dignity and tendent Buchanan, along the lines recommended integrity of the issues under examination, by Judge Cory and with full powers to procure however, and this case would be a good example documents and compel witnesses, and into the of that point if such problems are allowed to extremely serious possibility that those murders arise. were facilitated by collusion between some Like the Ceann Comhairle and Deputy members of the Garda Sı´ocha´na and the Pro- Crawford, I am proud to be a member of the Brit- visional IRA. As the Minister stated, it is partic- ish-Irish Inter-Parliamentary Body. While its ularly important that anyone who has evidence to work is largely unsung, it does a significant give should come forward. amount at political level in the reconciliation pro- The murders of the two policemen in 1989 were cess. In the course of our work on that body, we particularly brutal crimes, carried out in a way are still seeking means of closure for all victims that betrayed cruelty and callousness. There is a of the Troubles. That is an essential element of particular onus on those who have demanded the peace process. Some people say that we must public inquiries into other murders, in respect of look forward, not back. We should always look which reports from Judge Cory are still awaited, forward but, in doing so, we must be conscious of to ensure there is no obfuscation about urging where we come from because that is an integral their members and supporters to give the Breen part of who we are. We must always remember and Buchanan inquiry their full co-operation. whence we came and the events that shaped us It is worth quoting what Judge Cory, an inde- all. The important thing is to do so with dignity pendent judicial figure from Canada, had to say and without recrimination. Closure is necessary about the two officers who were murdered. He for all victims of the Troubles in the North. It is stated: certainly necessary for the families of RUC Chief Superintendent Breen and Superin- officers Breen and Buchanan. It is also necessary tendent Bob Buchanan demonstrated all the for all the other people who were so badly finest attributes required of policemen ...To affected. As a Dubliner, I am thinking partic- murder such men was a blow to their communi- 1645 Tribunals of Inquiry: 23 March 2005. Motion 1646

ties, to the residents of Northern Ireland, to all family was understandable and entirely who believe in a democratic society and to all legitimate. who understand the important role of the pol- The 1966 report of the Royal Commission of ice in a democratic society. Tribunals of Inquiry in the United Kingdom, otherwise known as the Salmon report, stated: It has been somewhat overlooked that the pur- pose of the meeting attended by the two officers There are, however, exceptional cases in at the Garda station in Dundalk was not about which [inquisitorial] procedures must be used what is generally regarded as terrorist crime. It to preserve the purity and integrity of our was to discuss the problem of cross-Border smug- public life without which a successful democ- gling. Since 1989 we have learned much about racy is impossible. It is essential that on the how terrorism and what is called “normal” crime very rare occasions when crises of public confi- have become interlinked, and we know the extent dence occur, the evil, if it exists, shall be to which major figures in the Provisional IRA in exposed so that it may be rooted out; or if it the south Armagh area in particular have person- does not exist, the public shall be satisfied that ally benefited from smuggling and other areas of in reality there is no substance in the prevalent crime. I hope one area that will be examined by rumours and suspicions by which they have the tribunal is whether the two officers were been disturbed. We are satisfied that this would specifically targeted because of their efforts to be difficult, if not impossible, without public stamp out smuggling and thus undermine the per- investigation by an inquisitorial tribunal pos- sonal criminal empires built up by the para- sessing the powers conferred by the Act of military godfathers along the Border. 1921. I regret that it has taken 15 months since the In the circumstances that Salmon described, publication of the Cory report to bring the appro- namely, when a crisis of public confidence occurs, priate motion before the Da´il to establish the tri- a public inquiry becomes necessary. That reality bunal, but the failures on the part of the British was reflected in the Government’s response to Government to meet its obligations arising from the ruling of the European Court of Human the Weston Park agreement are inexcusable. The Rights in Strasbourg on the Pat Finucane case. British Government dithered and its delay in put- The court had ruled that the UK Government ting its side of the reports into the public domain had failed adequately to investigate allegations created suspicion. It so frustrated Judge Cory that that the security forces colluded in the murder of he directly contacted the families of Pat Finucane, Mr. Finucane. The Taoiseach repeated his pre- Rosemary Nelson, Robert Hamill and Billy vious call for an independent public inquiry. Wright to explain his point of view to them, per- sonally, and to let them know he had in each case I joined with the Taoiseach, the Finucane recommended public inquiries into the deaths. family, the SDLP and others in restating my belief that a public inquiry was required. None of In March of last year a decision in the Belfast us meant by that a Government appointed, con- High Court effectively required the British trolled and spancelled inquiry that conducted the Government to set a date for publication of the bulk of its work in private. Because of its subject then outstanding chapters of the Cory report matter, a report from a body operating along dealing with the Finucane murder. We must those lines would fail the essential test. The man- remember that in the Weston Park proposals of ner in which the report was compiled and pro- 1 August 2001, both Governments committed duced would not be conducive to public trust in that “in the event that a Public Inquiry is recom- its findings. As Judge Cory pointed out: mended in any case, the relevant Government will implement that recommendation”. It was During the Weston Park negotiations, which extraordinary that a judge of international stand- were an integral part of the implementation of ing, appointed by agreement between two states, the Good Friday Accord, six cases were selec- felt compelled to go public and speak over the ted to be reviewed to determine whether a radio of his frustration about inaction on his public inquiry should be held with regard to report, and that the families of Pat Finucane and any of them. . . The failure to do so could be Billy Wright should unite in a High Court appli- seen as a cynical breach of faith which could cation to quash the British Government’s delay have unfortunate consequences for the Peace in publishing his findings. Accord...aspeedy resolution is essential if the At the end of September last, the British public confidence in the police and the admin- Government announced that the long-delayed istration of justice is to be restored. In this case inquiry into the murder of Pat Finucane and only a public inquiry will suffice. Without related issues of collusion between the RUC, public scrutiny, doubts based solely on myth British army and loyalist paramilitaries may be and suspicion will linger long, fester and spread neither judicial nor public. It would not take their malignant infection throughout the place until amending legislation was passed, the Republic and the Northern Ireland com- effect of which would be effectively to fillet the munity... In those cases where such evidence tribunals of inquiry Act. The hostile reaction to has been found, the holding of a public inquiry this announcement from Nationalist representa- as quickly as is reasonably possible is a small tives, human rights bodies and the Finucane price to pay for a lasting peace. 1647 Priority 23 March 2005. Questions 1648

[Mr. Rabbitte.] My Department is currently studying the Judge Cory also pointed out that at the time of Supreme Court judgment with regard to repay- the Weston Park agreement “the parties would ment of charges for publicly-funded long term have had in mind a public inquiry as that term residential care in detail and will take on board was known in 2001”. all the consequences for policy and law arising It is a necessary function of our Government from the judgment. A special Cabinet sub-com- to ensure that its British counterpart complies mittee comprising the Taoiseach, Deputy Bertie with its commitments under an international Ahern, the Minister for Finance, Deputy Cowen, agreement between both states. Following a the Attorney General, Mr. Brady, and me, has meeting with Mr. Michael Finucane last January, been established to consider the issue of repay- when he outlined his fears about the new British ment in light of the judgment. Full details of a Inquiries Bill, I wrote to Judge Cory. I outlined repayment scheme will be announced as soon as to him the concerns of many interested persons, possible and it is the intention to make repay- extending well beyond the republican com- ments as automatic as possible. munity, that the inquiry into the murder of Pat The Department is currently in discussions Finucane which he had recommended would be with the Health Service Executive, which delayed until new legislation was passed, which assumed responsibility for the delivery of health is entirely corrosive of public confidence in the and personal social services on 1 January 2005 integrity of the inquiry process. I enclosed with regarding the appropriate mechanism of repay- my letter an analysis by British Irish Rights ment that is efficient and non-contentious and Watch, an independent non-governmental organ- without the requirement for going through a isation that has been monitoring the human rights legal process. dimension of the conflict and the peace process The HSE has now provided an estimate of \532 in Northern Ireland since 1990. million for the total overall cost of repayments for the six year period 1999-2004. The cost of Debate adjourned. repayment in full to patients who are still alive and invoking the Statute of Limitations in regard Sitting suspended at 1.30 p.m. and resumed at to the estates of patients who are deceased is cur- 2.30 p.m. rently the subject of discussions with the HSE regarding the potential costs to the Exchequer. The HSE has also now provided an estimate of Ceisteanna — Questions (Resumed). 299,249 persons as being eligible for a refund for the period 1976-2004. Priority Questions. The total number of calls the national repay- ment scheme helpline dealt with up to 21 March ———— 2005 was 7,044. The national repayment scheme also received 4,263 written correspondences as Nursing Home Charges. well as 514 e-mails. The Supreme Court decision indicated that the 2. Dr. Twomey asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- State has available to it the Statute of Limitations ster for Health and Children the cost of adopting defence, i.e. a six year limit. The Attorney Gen- a policy involving the repayment in full of all eral has been in touch with me regarding the issue illegal charges to patients who are still alive and of the Statute of Limitations and I am in continu- invoking the Statute of Limitations in regard to ous discussions with him in this regard. the estates of patients who are deceased, in relation to the illegal charging of long stay Dr. Twomey: Will the Government return to patients; if she has received legal advice that such the Supreme Court to test the legality of invoking a course of action is sustainable; and if she will the Statute of Limitations? Has the Government make a statement on the matter. [9717/05] considered doing so? The Supreme Court 3. Ms McManus asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- judgment takes into account the rights of the ster for Health and Children the number of calls State’s limited liabilities by reliance on the Stat- received to date by the national repayments ute of Limitations. Has the Ta´naiste received scheme helpline; the information available to her definitive legal advice from the Attorney General on this matter? Department regarding the extent of the potential \ cost to the Exchequer of the illegal charges; the The Ta´naiste quoted a figure of 532 million to progress made to date by the Government com- cover all repayments for the six year period. The mittee considering the question of repayments; if 2001 legislation was pivotal in reactivating this a decision has been made regarding whether the issue within the Department of Health and Chil- dren. Can the Ta´naiste give us some idea of how Statute of Limitations will apply; when the com- \ mittee will produce a report; and if she will make much of the 532 million relates to the 2001 legis- a statement on the matter. [9542/05] lation? That is pivotal to what the former Mini- ster for Health and Children, Deputy Martin, said Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children he knew nothing about. Ministers of State in his (Ms Harney): I propose to take Questions Nos. 2 Department considered it very serious but we and 3 together. were not made aware of the substantial political 1649 Priority 23 March 2005. Questions 1650 importance involved until the Ta´naiste made her However, when it comes to repayment, the issue announcement in the Da´il Chamber. of interest arises. That is why some of the figures What is so important about the South Eastern we are now discussing are somewhat higher than Health Board legal advice that the Ta´naiste is the figure of \1.15 billion. One has to consider now attempting to cover up? Does this cover-up interest and what someone could have earned if relate to court cases taken by patients in that he or she had put the money in the post office health board area or does the legal advice relate or somewhere else. They are some of the issues to court cases pending from health board officials that arise. or other State employees in that area? We need I assure Deputy Twomey that from the time I clear answers because this issue is quite substan- became aware of this matter, the last thing I have tial and the Ta´naiste is fudging on it every time done is to fudge. I appointed John Travers we ask about it. because I was not satisfied with the report given I would also like the Ta´naiste to point out from to me, which I brought to the Cabinet. I only where the figure of \1.15 billion came. This figure became aware of the deficiencies in that report was given to the Supreme Court by counsel for 48 hours after I received it. I asked John Travers the State and relates to charges going back to to look at all the issues and documents and give 1976. The Ta´naiste has not given a breakdown of me a report so that I could establish what has the figures. A Cabinet sub-committee must surely happened and why this matter had not been dealt at this stage have some better working figures with in the past. That is what his report sought than merely the figure of \532 million. Can the to do. Ta´naiste supply a breakdown of these figures? I have made many documents available, which How much of it relates to public nursing home were not even in the Travers report. Last week I charges, to long term psychiatric patients, to made available some documents including those patients with intellectual disabilities, to patients from the line division in the Department. I also who cannot represent their own interests? Can gave an undertaking to make other documents the Ta´naiste give a more detailed breakdown of available. Is is very rare for governments to the figure of \532 million, which covers the six release the legal advice they are given, but I can year period? supply documents of a legal nature only if they Before the Ta´naiste leaves the Chamber today, do not prejudice any upcoming court cases. There can she clarify the issue regarding the Statute of are a number of cases pending. Most of them Limitations and how far the Government has relate to the nursing home issue, private insti- gone in considering invoking it? tutions and nursing home subventions, and they are intertwined in the legal advice the South Ms Harney: Regarding the Statute of Limi- Eastern Health Board had. That is why the tations, the period is six years. While I have not Attorney General has strongly advised me that I got definitive legal advice from the Attorney could jeopardise the proceedings of this State if I General, we are still in the process of drawing up were to put that advice into the public domain. a memorandum for Government that I hope to As a responsible Minister I must take that advice. take to the Cabinet meeting on 6 April so that we can make a decision on how to proceed. Trying to Dr. Twomey: What about the legal advice? assemble all the information and thereby get a definitive opinion from the Attorney General has An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: I must call been a mammoth task. However, I have already Deputy McManus. put on the record the preliminary advice from the Attorney General that we cannot use the Statute Ms McManus: Perhaps the question Deputy of Limitations against anyone of unsound mind. Twomey wanted to ask is the same as mine. To Furthermore, for anyone now alive to seek to what cases is the Minister referring? The sus- prove that he or she was of unsound mind would picion is that the legal advice is deliberately being be an impossible task, as the Deputies can kept hidden, even from the Oireachtas committee imagine, and a very unfair task to ask anyone to charged with the duty of examining the issue in undertake. terms of administrative and legislative change. I have been told that there are 22,000 people The Minister is giving us a job of work to do with- alive whose estates are affected, so that most of out providing the tools to do the job when she those affected have passed away. Regarding those refuses to release this information. Will the Mini- still alive, the breakdown between those people ster specify the cases about which she is talking in what I might call mental health institutions and that lead to this difficulty? Until we hear those those in the category of the elderly seems to be details she will not convince us 100%. 50/50. That is my understanding. The Minister knows who these people are The figure of \1.15 billion was the Depart- because they are in public institutions. Will she ment’s estimate before the Supreme Court of describe for us the mechanism for payment? Will what we raised since 1976. That seems to be the she discriminate in favour of people who are alive approximate figure for what was raised by way of rather than those who have passed on? Will she charges for the people involved in publicly publish the legal advices relating to the scheme funded beds, whether in country homes or in when it is prepared and has passed through psychiatric or mental health institutions. Cabinet? It would be helpful if she provided the 1651 Priority 23 March 2005. Questions 1652

[Ms McManus.] happened. The issue was raised by the CEO of details of the legal back-up. We have had to argue the then South Eastern Health Board. Note was the case about the unconstitutionality of a pre- taken of his concerns and a commitment was vious Bill. The Minister must accept that it is given that legal advice would be sought from the important that anything done now is put to the Attorney General. Subsequent to the meeting a test by publication so that we may all have confi- group was put together and it drew up a docu- dence in it. ment and a letter to be sent to the Attorney Gen- With regard to what is available to us in the eral. That letter never issued. The minutes of the Travers report, the legal advice of the then South meeting of the following March — when the next Eastern Health Board is censored and delivered meeting took place with the CEOs and the man- to us in a very truncated form. However, accord- agement committee — state that legal advice was ing to the report, that advice clearly states the being sought, which was untrue. The next meet- only conclusive solution is the introduction of a ing was in October 2004 where it was stated that comprehensive legislative framework etc. We legal options were being explored, which again know that two Ministers knew what was going on was untrue. To be honest, the situation is rather and that the Taoiseach was informed about it. bizarre. The current cost is considerably higher because If we could have legislated for this matter a the Minister responsible did not live up to his number of years ago, the mess we are now in responsibilities. would never have happened. We will seek to Does the Minister agree there is a major ques- make it as easy as possible for people to go tion mark over her predecessor? What the through the scheme we will establish rather than Travers report said about the legal advice of the pursue the legal route. I want the taxpayers’ then South Eastern Health Board cannot be gain- moneys that we will pay to go to the elderly and said. No Minister could stand over total ignorance their needs, not to the interests of the legal pro- when such information is available to him and fession, with all due respect to that profession. I when advisers, civil servants and Ministers of want to make it as easy as possible for people to State were at the meeting. Has this not added to access the scheme. Now that some of the issues the costs in a manner that raises a question mark are becoming clearer, I hope to be in a position over his competence to be in Cabinet? to bring that memorandum to the Government for 6 April so that we can make a decision and a Ms Harney: With regard to the cases to which subsequent public announcement. I referred, there was a lawyer from Cork on the radio a few weeks ago, who may be associated Dr. Twomey: Why is this legal document being with one of the parties in the House, who has withheld from Members when it was widely circu- taken on a number of cases on the nursing home lated among the health boards in 2003? It is not and private nursing home issue. That matter was Government legal advice but legal advice sought also dealt with in this advice. He is not the only by a health board on an issue with which it was one, but he is on public record as indicating that dealing and subsequently circulated to all health he was taking cases. I have been told by the boards. The Minister tells us we cannot have this Attorney General that there are a large number information. With regard to the Minister, Deputy of other cases pending. Martin, and the Department of Health and Chil- I will abide by and respect the decision of the dren, we have seen no political responsibility. We Supreme Court in the manner in which we will feel we have some political responsibility and that set about making the repayments. However, I we should have that information if it is so widely must be honest and admit that I am keen to use available to everybody else. the statute of limitations if possible because this is an enormous bill. As the Travers report made Ms Harney: It is not widely available, but avail- clear, there was broad support for the concept of able under privilege. They were all at the same charging for shelter and maintenance going back meeting and all facing the same cases. The advice to 1947 and no Government in office since then they were getting from the Department for many saw fit to remove the capacity to charge for shel- years, going back to 1978, was that they should ter and maintenance. The tragedy is that this was not contest. Therefore, if one long-term bed occu- not legislated for. pant had a lawyer who could help him or her to On the issue of legal advices, as the report indi- take a case, he or she would no longer be charged cates, in 1978 there was clear legal advice from while somebody not so fortunate in the bed Ronan Keane and Thomas McCann to the then beside him or her was charged in all those years. Eastern Health Board which said that legislation Besides the legal issues involved here, there are was necessary. Even going back that far, it was significant inequality issues that are unacceptable. clear legislation was necessary. It is a shame that There is no doubt on the reading of the legal the legislation was never passed to make legal a advice that the long-term charges issue should very good principle, which is what we are talking have been put on a statutory legal footing. The about here. report makes that clear. However, the legal The meeting in December 2003 made the right advice Governments must follow is the legal decision and the people who attended that meet- advice of the Attorney General. It is remarkable ing cannot carry the can for anything wrong that that his advice was never sought over almost 30 1653 Priority 23 March 2005. Questions 1654 years. There is no evidence anywhere to suggest, Ms Harney: I am committed to the national as can be seen from the Travers report and even roll-out of a cervical screening programme in line going back to 1976 when the famous circular was with international best practice. International evi- issued, that the Office of the Attorney General dence demonstrates the proven efficacy of prog- was consulted. This is what I find extraordinary. rammes that are effectively managed and meet It was almost in the ether that this was fine and quality assurance standards. Careful planning and the attitude was that because we had always done consultation with relevant professional and advo- it, we should continue to do it. If there is a lesson cacy stakeholders is required before I make to be learned, it is that we should not ignore legal policy decisions on a national roll-out. advice or the need to seek it to cover areas where The former Health Board Executive com- one is raising substantial amounts of money, as missioned an international expert in cervical scre- we are doing through this route. ening to examine the feasibility and implications of a national roll-out of a cervical screening prog- Ms McManus: Surely that is not true. If former ramme. The examination included an evaluation Minister, John Boland, was able to bring forward of the current pilot programme in the mid-west- a proposal to Cabinet, presumably he had taken ern area, quality assurance, laboratory capacity advice from the Attorney General in some shape and organisation and the establishment of or form. Has the Minister asked the person who national governance arrangements. The expert’s took over from John Boland as Minister, the report was published on 14 December 2004. My Department is consulting the Irish College of Ceann Comhairle, Deputy O’Hanlon, why the General Practitioners, An Bord Altranais, the battle was not resolved at that point as the Mini- Academy of Medical Laboratory Science, the ster states it should have been? Institute of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists of The Minister mentioned people suffering from the Royal College of Physicians of Ireland, the mental illness. Are people in long-term care with faculty of pathology of the Royal College of Phys- physical disabilities included in the provisions? icians of Ireland, the Women’s Health Council and the Irish Cancer Society. Consultation with Ms Harney: The people included in these pro- these key stakeholders is well advanced and will visions are the people to whom the Health Act be completed shortly. 1970 applies, people regarded as fully eligible, Approximately 230,000 smear tests are carried namely, medical card holders. That is the first out annually which represents an increase of time the concept of full eligibility was introduced. almost 20% in recent years. To meet this Those with physical disabilities may well be increased demand, additional cumulative funding included. I am not certain that everybody with of approximately \14.5 million has been provided a physical disability would incur a maintenance- by my Department since 2002 to enhance the lab- shelter charge. oratory and colposcopy services. I understand that when a memorandum came The pilot cervical screening programme com- to John Boland, he stated in his own handwriting menced in October 2000 and is available to eli- that he wanted to include the charges issue. There gible women resident in counties Limerick, Clare is no evidence in the Department or elsewhere and Tipperary. Under the programme, cervical that advice was given to him to do that. The view screening is offered free of charge at five-year was taken that perhaps because of his legal back- intervals to approximately 74,000 women in the ground or his experience on a health board, he 25 to 60 age group. In addition, my Department was aware there was a problem around this issue. allocated a further \1.1 million to the programme He was only a caretaker Minister for a couple of on an ongoing basis to complete the transition of weeks, which is remarkable. The same memor- the remaining laboratories to new and more andum went to the subsequent Government and effective testing and to support the development it made a decision to introduce the elements of of quality assurance and training programmes. the budget which introduced charges for out- These are essential preparatory elements in a patient and inpatient services. national roll-out. With regard to this issue, which was part of the decision sought, that Government said it would Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in: Will the Minister sup- be done as relevant and that the Taoiseach, and port and act on the unanimous call of the Irish the Ministers for Finance and Health and Chil- Cancer Society and 24 other organisations, dren would meet to discuss the matter. There is including trade unions, professional bodies and no record of that ever happening but I have not women’s networks, on 24 February for a State- spoken to anyone about that. wide pre-cancer screening programme? The latest figures I have relate to 2000. There were 1,019 Cancer Screening Programme. new cases of in situ cervical cancer, that is, a pre- cancerous state, 193 cases of invasive cancer and 4. Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in asked the Ta´naiste 65 deaths. Does the Minister agree comprehen- and Minister for Health and Children if she will sive screening leading to early detection and initiate a State-wide cervical pre-cancer screening treatment can and will dramatically reduce the programme; and if she will make a statement on incidence and development of cervical cancer and the matter. [9543/05] the resulting all too terrible death toll? Will she 1655 Priority 23 March 2005. Questions 1656

[Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in.] west and Border counties. If there are health care therefore roll out a screening programme as soon initiatives on which we can work on an all-island as possible? Will she offer screening free of basis, we would be irresponsible not to pursue charge to all women aged between 25 and 60? those options. Will she prepare a register of all such women to facilitate the roll-out of such a programme? Mental Health Services. 5. Mr. Neville asked the Ta´naiste and Minister Ms Harney: I would like to have a national roll- for Health and Children her plans for introducing out. Professor Prendeville, who is one of our lead- adequate child and adolescent psychiatric services ing experts in this area, recently said an organised consisting of multidisciplinary teams. [9716/05] roll-out would be more effective than opportun- istic screening, which is currently the case, in Minister of State at the Department of Health reducing the incidence of cervical cancer and he and Children (Mr. B. Lenihan): A working group believes it could be reduced by 80%. I would like on child and adolescent psychiatry was estab- to discuss this issue in the context of the renewal lished by the Minister for Health and Children in of the contact under the GMS. This programme is June 2000 to make recommendations on how being implemented by general practitioners and I child and adolescent psychiatric services should would like it to be included as part of a new con- be developed in the short, medium and long term tract with them. to meet identified needs. I do not have current figures on the number of In its first report, the working group recom- women who die from cervical cancer in Ireland mended the enhancement and expansion of the but I have no reason to dispute the figures given overall child and adolescent psychiatric services by the Deputy. However, population screening in as the most effective means of providing the certain areas is successful. Cervical and breast required service for children with mental illness. screening highlight that early detection has sig- The group found that the internationally acknow- nificant positive effects in preventing the illness ledged best practice for the provision of child and or deaths and reducing the seriousness of the adolescent psychiatric services is through the illness. multidisciplinary team and the funding of this area has been a priority for my Department in Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in: I thank the Minister recent years. Since 1997, additional funding of for her reply. I am obliged to interpret it in the almost \19 million has been provided to allow for most positive way I can and if it is her wish that the appointment of additional consultants in child such a programme should be included in the and adolescent psychiatry, the enhancement of programme of work she is undertaking, I wel- existing consultant-led multidisciplinary teams come and encourage it. Will she take on board and the establishment of further teams. This has that a comprehensive screening programme will resulted in the funding of a further 19 child and save massive resources? There can be no argu- adolescent consultant psychiatrists. Nationally, 52 ment on cost in this instance because the health such psychiatrists are in our complement. service will save resources through early detec- The first report of the working group on child tion and prevention and, above all, the lives of and adolescent psychiatry also recommended that women will be saved. I hope the Minister will a total of seven child and adolescent inpatient move the project forward with some alacrity. psychiatric units for children ranging from six to Will the Minister explore with her Northern 16 years should be developed throughout the counterpart the prospect of an island-wide roll- country. Project teams have been established to out of the screening programme because tremen- develop child and adolescent inpatient psychiatric dous savings and benefits would be gained by units in Cork, Limerick, Galway and the Health adopting a cross-Border co-operative approach Service Executive eastern regional area at St on such issues? I know from all the contact I have Vincent’s Hospital, Fairview. Approval to tender had north of the Border, there is no resistance to for design teams for the units in Cork, Limerick such co-operation on health matters. It is an area and Galway was given by my Department that can demonstrate the great value and import- recently. Inpatient services for children and ado- ance of co-operation on many levels and in many lescents are provided at Warrenstown House, matters. This is certainly one of them. Dublin, and at St Anne’s in Galway. The Health Act 2004 provided for the Health Ms Harney: That is a good idea. There is Service Executive which was established on 1 potential to do more on an all-island basis in the January 2005. Under the Act, the executive has health care area. Unfortunately, because of the the responsibility to manage and deliver, or current political vacuum, it has not been possible arrange to be delivered on its behalf, health and to have a number of the meetings that might have personal social services. This includes responsi- been held in a different context. Perhaps follow- bility for the provision of mental health services. ing the Westminster elections, we might be in a An additional \15 million has been made avail- position to discuss this. A number of issues have able for the further development of mental health been raised on which it would make sense to services in 2005, bringing the total spend on men- work on an all-island basis. For example, radio- tal health to approximately \725 million. A por- therapy is another issue for people in the north tion of this funding, the details of which are yet 1657 Priority 23 March 2005. Questions 1658 to be finalised, will be allocated to child and ado- Limerick, will have 14 in-patient beds, and the lescent mental health services. child and adolescent unit in Merlin Park Hospital, The future direction and delivery of all aspects Galway, will have 20 in-patient beds. There will of our mental health services, including child and clearly be an increase in capacity when those adolescent psychiatry, will be considered in the plans are implemented. context of the work of the expert group on men- tal health policy, which is due to report this year. Mr. Neville: The Minister of State announced again that \15 million has been made available Mr. Neville: Does the Minister of State agree for the development of psychiatric services. Bear- there is an urgent need to ensure proper beds and ing in mind that this serious issue will affect one facilities for children under 16? The Irish College in five people at some stage of their lives and that of Psychiatrists recommends in the the development of psychiatric services has been 3 o’clock report that the Minister of State neglected for decades, that \15 million, which is mentioned that there be 144 beds less than the cost of the Punchestown project and available for people under 16. However, at only 25% of that of electronic voting, is absol- present there are approximately 20 in the coun- utely unacceptable. It is an absolute disgrace to try. When those between the ages of 16 and 18 announce that for the development of psychiatric are included, it is clear that an extra 80 beds are services when they need a multiple of that sum required, making a total of 224. There are very each year to bring them into line with the stan- few or no dedicated services for those aged dards of the 21st century. between 16 and 18. In my area, there are children as young as 13 in adult psychiatric hospitals. Mr. B. Lenihan: As I pointed out, approval has Does the Minister agree that it is totally appro- recently been given to tender for the design teams priate, since as many as 18% of children under 16 for the units. Regarding the units in Cork, and 20% of those between 16 and 18 will experi- Limerick and Galway, tender for design work ence serious psychological or psychiatric prob- does not require that much money. The Deputy lems? One must bear in mind that 11,500 people, rightly identified in his question that there is a mainly young, attended accident and emergency lack of capacity in this sector, and we are address- departments having attempted suicide last year. ing that. Does the Minister agree that the lack of child and adolescent psychiatric services is a factor in that Mr. Neville: I was referring to the \15 million. level of attempted suicide and in successful suic- ides among young people? It is accepted that Mr. B. Lenihan: We have gone on with the early intervention of a psychiatric or psychoana- expert working group, which has made certain lytical nature among children and adolescents recommendations. On foot of that, we have given prepares them for difficulties experienced later. approval to tender for design team. One cannot The lack of intervention for those in crisis is a simply double or treble allocations if one does not major risk factor in levels of suicide and have the capacity to deliver the service. One must attempted suicide. plan for a service, and that is what we are doing The ongoing highlighting by the Irish College on the basis of the report. We are planning an of Psychiatrists and others of the lack of services increase in the service’s capacity. As the Deputy in the context of the level of attempted and suc- rightly said, existing in-patient services are inad- cessful suicides is a serious issue. equate. There is insufficient capacity in War- renstown House and St. Anne’s in Galway for Mr. B. Lenihan: I agree in general terms with national cohorts. Therefore, we are increasing the the Deputy’s suggestion that imbalance in mental capacity. I will not enter into a discussion about health can be a factor in the cause of suicide, expenditure tables, Punchestown or voting though it is clear that many factors are involved, machines in this context. I am describing to the and I am not able, as Minister of State with Deputy what is being done on this issue. The responsibility for policy in the area, to give a diag- Government is aware of the problem and is deal- nosis or clinical assessment, since I do not have ing with it. the same expertise as the Deputy. However, \ regarding the general question of the mental Mr. Neville: The 15 million is intended to health services for children and adolescents, it has cover all psychiatric services rather than simply been recognised for several years that there are those for children and adolescents. Is that not difficulties; that is why the reports were com- inadequate? missioned. On foot of those reports, the decision was recently taken to allow the design teams to An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: We must move go to tender. on. The project teams have been established to develop child and adolescent inpatient psychiatric Precautions against Influenza. units in Cork, Limerick and Galway. That has 6. Mr. Gormley asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- now been sanctioned, and that is the key point. ster for Health and Children the action her The proposed unit in Cork will consist of 20 in- Department is taking in response to warnings patient beds, the unit at Dooradoyle, County from the World Health Organisation of the 1659 Priority 23 March 2005. Questions 1660

[Mr. Gormley.] of risk is likely to change over time. That means danger of a flu pandemic; if there are plans to the recommendations for use of anti-virals must increase the supply of anti-viral drugs here, which be kept under review and expert opinion always are now only adequate for approximately 45,000 sought. In particular, the expert group will need persons; if a meeting has been called of the expert to review the epidemiological data before final group tasked with updating Ireland’s emergency recommendations are decided in the setting of an plan and stockpiling anti-viral drugs; and if she imminent pandemic. The decision-making pro- will make a statement on the matter. [9541/05] cess will be guided at all times by relevant expert Ms Harney: The influenza pandemic expert advice from the European Commission and the group is reviewing and updating Ireland’s 2002 World Health Organisation. influenza pandemic preparedness plan. Once finalised, the updated plan will be published. The Mr. Gormley: The Ta´naiste stated that the plan 2002 plan was based on the World Health Organ- would be published once finalised. When does isation, or WHO, blueprint for an influenza pan- she expect that the document will be finalised, demic plan, published in 1999. It addresses a and what has the delay been? We have been told range of issues, including prevention strategies, that the consultants refused to meet. Does that scientific and medical issues, and communi- continue to hinder the progress of the pandemic cations. The WHO plan is currently being expert group? Who are the priority groups? The updated to incorporate new scientific data and Ta´naiste mentioned those most vulnerable, but experience obtained during recent outbreaks. are we also talking about emergency staff, the Our pandemic plan will be modified in line with gardaı´ and so on? Would it include Members and those recommendations once they are agreed and Ministers? How far does it go in the context of published by the World Health Organisation. getting those extra doses of Tamiflu? Will the Vaccination is the principal measure for ordinary person have to go out and buy it? For preventing influenza and reducing the impact of what price is it retailing? Does the Ta´naiste agree epidemics. It will be the primary public health that we simply could not cope with a pandemic, intervention in the event of an influenza pan- given the major crisis in our accident and emer- demic. However, the production of a vaccine tail- gency units which look like a war zone? Does she ored to a pandemic influenza strain could take six agree with the assessment of the pandemic expert to nine months. Developments are under way at group that up to 26,000 people would need treat- international level seeking to expedite that ment and that 11,000 people in the Republic process. could die? Will she explain to the House the dis- Pending the availability of virus-specific vac- parity between the figure that 11,000 people in cines, anti-viral drugs will be the only influenza- the Republic could die and the statement yester- specific medical intervention available for use in day by Dr. Lorraine Doherty, senior medical the event of a pandemic. Anti-virals can be used officer in the Northern Ireland health depart- for prevention and treatment. The Government ment, that 36,000 people could die in Northern has decided that anti-viral drugs should be stock- Ireland? Does she agree with me that there is piled. The expert group reviewed recommend- much confusion surrounding the figures we have ations for the use of anti-virals in line with best been given? Does she agree also that co-oper- international practice at its meeting on 24 ation between North and South is required on February 2005. Following consideration of the this issue? What measures has the Ta´naiste taken expert group’s advice, I have directed that 1 mill- to co-operate with our colleagues in Northern ion treatment packs of Tamiflu should be stock- Ireland? If Ireland does not cope with this pan- piled. That quantity is sufficient to treat 25% of demic, will she consider that a resigning matter? the population and is in line with best inter- national practice. The Health Service Executive Ms Harney: It is one thing to resign over events has been so advised, and procurement arrange- that have happened but the Deputy may be Mini- ments have been put in train. I am confident that ster for Health and Children by the time we have 600,000 packs will have been delivered by the end such a pandemic. I hope we will not have one of this year — sufficient to treat 15% of the popu- soon. lation. The remaining 400,000 packs will be deliv- ered in 2006. A national anti-viral stockpile would be used Mr. Gormley: I would not want the job. to treat priority groups. Prioritisation is essential if morbidity and mortality are to be reduced and Ms Harney: I am surprised to hear that. At essential services are to be maintained, thereby least the Deputy is being honest. minimising as far as possible the disruption to society that might result from a pandemic. The Mr. Gormley: I am being honest with the priority groups include, for example, individuals Ta´naiste. hospitalised with influenza, people who may be more vulnerable to the virus, and key workers in Ms Harney: I will remember that. Is it a case essential services. of all advice and no bottle? It should be noted, however, that pandemic planning is a dynamic process, and the definition Mr. Gormley: I have got the bottle. 1661 Other 23 March 2005. Questions 1662

Ms Harney: I will have to ask the other do is take best advice and approximate because Deputies the same question. Perhaps I will have one never knows, as with SARS and other to stay in the post forever. unknown viruses, what might be the impact.

Mr. Neville: I would love the chance. Other Questions. Ms McManus: Just give me the opportunity. An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: I remind Members that supplementary questions and Ms Harney: On the expert group, it was answers are limited to one minute. delayed because of the dispute but that dispute is now settled. It is imminent. I have had a number Health Service Staff. of discussions with the chairman of the group and some of the members and it is imminent. It is the 7. Ms Lynch asked the Ta´naiste and Minister type of expertise that is almost constant in that it for Health and Children the steps she is taking to is difficult to say that this is the final report increase the number of neurologists here; if her because events are changing rapidly, and there is attention has been drawn to the considerable a good deal of co-ordination and co-operation at strain which the shortage of neurologists is plac- international level, both at European Union and ing on services for persons with neurological dis- World Health Organisation level. A very good orders as highlighted by, among others, the Irish seminar on this matter was held recently in the Motor Neurone Disease Association; and if she O’Reilly Hall in University College Dublin and will make a statement on the matter. [9410/05] attended by many international speakers. Ms Harney: The Health Act 2004 provided for The Deputy said our accident and emergency the Health Service Executive which was estab- units are like a war zone. I was in Sarajevo last lished on 1 January 2005. Under the Act, the Saturday and Sunday. executive has the responsibility to manage and deliver, or arrange to be delivered on its behalf, Dr. Twomey: For the peace and quiet. health and personal social services. This includes the provision of neurological services. Ms Harney: The Deputy should go there In April 2003, Comhairle na nOspide´al pub- because he would see—— lished the report of a review of neurology and neurophysiology services. The report recom- Mr. Gormley: Is the Ta´naiste comparing this mended significant enhancement of such services, country to a war zone? including increases in consultant staffing. It also recognised that aspects of other specialties and Ms Harney: ——what a war zone is really like, services, such as rehabilitation medicine, geriatric unfortunately. On the priority groups, I will take medicine and old age psychiatry, are related to advice from the experts on the make-up of those and overlap with neurology services. The comh- groups. I doubt if we would include politicians in airle recommended that a national multi- a priority group. I would certainly not want to disciplinary review of rehabilitation services be show any preference to myself or my ministerial undertaken. This would further inform the policy colleagues but I am sure best international prac- framework on the development of neurology tice in this area will be followed. The groups services. include emergency workers and the more vulner- Consistent with this recommendation a draft able groups in our society. This is something that national action plan for rehabilitation services is has to be done purely on the basis of expertise under consideration in my Department. The and advice and not on any other basis. There is much debate about this issue internationally. I comhairle report and the work undertaken by the hope we do not have a pandemic soon. Neurological Alliance of Ireland through its pub- lications, together with the rehabilitation action Mr. Gormley: What about the huge difference plan, will offer a comprehensive policy frame- between the figures for Northern Ireland and work for the future. those given for here? Additional revenue funding has been made available in 2005 to support the development of Ms Harney: I cannot account for that differ- neurology-neurophysiology services in a number ence. The Deputy made a good suggestion about of regions having regard to agreed priorities. The having an all-Ireland approach. That is a good continuing development of the services is a idea. matter for the HSE, having regard to available funding and other competing service priorities. Mr. Gormley: We have to do that. Ms McManus: It is a great pity that the Mini- Ms Harney: I cannot account for the difference ster is going back to the tried and trusted formula in the figures. The figures did not come from poli- of referring to plans, reports and strategies. We ticians. They came from the experts and I have to are aware of the shortfall in terms of the need for accept what the experts say in this area. To be neurologists because almost two years ago Comh- honest, with an issue as serious as this one it is airle na nOspide´al produced a report which probably difficult to get exact figures. All we can stated that the number of neurologists had to be 1663 Other 23 March 2005. Questions 1664

[Ms McManus.] Accident and Emergency Services. trebled to meet the need. Will the Minister stick 8. Mr. M. Higgins asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- to the question? What progress are we making in ster for Health and Children her views on the sit- reaching that target? We are talking about a uation in accident and emergency units in view of grossly overloaded service that cannot cope and the decision of the Health and Safety Authority is often based in very restricted accommodation. to order a safety inspection of all such units; the For a long time St. James’s Hospital, which is a steps being taken to ensure that such units com- major hospital, had only one neurologist. The tre- ply with relevant safety requirements; and if she bling of the number of neurologists is the recom- will make a statement on the matter. [9406/05] mendation that the Minister should deal with. How far have we got in reaching that target and 16. Mr. Bruton asked the Ta´naiste and Minister when will it be reached? for Health and Children her views on the health and safety of staff in hospital accident and emer- Ms Harney: To be honest, we have not made gency departments; and if she will make a state- much progress. The Comhairle na nOspide´al ment on the matter. [9447/05] recommendation was to increase from 14 to 39 in the long term and from 14 to 29 in the short term. 20. Mr. G. Murphy asked the Ta´naiste and The report also recommended that the number of Minister for Health and Children when the MRI consultant neurophysiologist posts be increased scanner for Beaumont Hospital will be com- from three to nine. This year we have provided missioned; and if she will make a statement on additional funding in the different regions for ser- the matter. [9525/05] vices in this area. As the Deputy is aware, we 22. Mr. M. Higgins asked the Ta´naiste and must increase the number of consultant posts Minister for Health and Children the measures from 1,940 or just below 2,000 to 3,600 and we implemented to date in regard to the package of must have timeframes on the various specialties measures announced in the Estimates for 2005 to at national and regional level because there are improve accident and emergency services; the major discrepancies in this and other areas and timetable for the implementation of each other very long waiting periods. Best international planned measure; and if she will make a state- practice suggests there should be one post per ment on the matter. [9405/05] 100,000 people. It is clear that is the target that must be reached. I am not in a position to say 70. Ms O. Mitchell asked the Ta´naiste and how long it will take but I hope that when we Minister for Health and Children her views on have the full complement of staff employed in the the health and safety of patients waiting on trol- HSE and a new chief executive officer to set leys in accident and emergency departments; and down targets, we can monitor this and other areas if she will make a statement on the matter. for the recruitment of key consultants. [9448/05] 99. Mr. Kenny asked the Ta´naiste and Minister Ms McManus: Will the Minister tell the House for Health and Children the progress to date on if we have a new chief executive officer? It is an her ten-point plan for alleviating the accident and issue in which many people would be interested. emergency crisis; and if she will make a statement The Minister of State, Deputy O’Malley, kindly on the matter. [9486/05] came to the launch of the website of the Irish Motor Neurone Disease Association. There is an Ms Harney: I propose to take Questions Nos. issue about funding for that association. Will the 8, 16, 20, 22, 70 and 99 together. Minister examine that? The House is aware of my opinion on the prob- lems being experienced in acute hospitals which Ms Harney: Yes. I believe the association has provide accident and emergency services. I have submitted an application for funding. I under- announced a number of initiatives aimed at stand the association will celebrate its 20th anni- improving the delivery of such services. Progress versary in May and I hope we can be supportive is being made on each of the ten actions I of that. announced earlier this year. The Health Service I spoke last night to the chairman of the HSE Executive has given the Department of Health who told me that the executive has narrowed the and Children an update on each of the actions. I competition to three or four candidates. It is will outline to the House some of the progress doing profile and other checks on those candi- that has been made. dates. He hopes his board will be in a position to The HSE has had positive discussions with make a recommendation to me in about two to public and private sector providers about the three weeks; I believe 10 or 12 April is the date. development of additional minor injury facilities I will be delighted to make that announcement in Dublin. It is expected that the second MRI for and I will be even more delighted when the per- Beaumont Hospital will be available from August son takes up the position. Before the Deputy asks 2005. Planning is continuing on the provision of me the question, I do not know any of the candi- acute medical units at Tallaght, St. Vincent’s and dates, and I did not want to know. Once the best Beaumont hospitals, which have been asked to person is selected, I will be happy and I hope he deliver interim arrangements pending the con- or she will come here and stay. struction and commissioning of the new units. 1665 Other 23 March 2005. Questions 1666

The tender process for the provision of high intentions, the Irish Nurses Organisation has dependency beds in private nursing homes is declared that there is “a terrible inertia” again. being examined and is at an advanced stage. The The Minister made it clear many months ago final tenders were opened this week and it is when she made her initial announcement that expected that the process will be concluded in the real improvements would be evident by this coming weeks, after analysis, evaluation and site month, or by April at the latest, but we have not visits have taken place. Contracts will be awarded seen any significant changes. We are seeing the in the coming days for the provision of intermedi- same pattern of chronic overload in accident and ate private nursing home care for 500 patients emergency departments. People in Galway have per year. threatened to close the service altogether. Additional home care packages for patients The Minister mentioned the war zone in Sara- have been made available in each of the six major jevo, and the term “walking wounded” has been acute hospitals in the Dublin area. A steering used by the medical profession, rather than by group of general practitioners, based on the north politicians, when discussing the accident and side of Dublin, is examining the requirements, emergency crisis. The walking wounded are being locations and arrangements for the establishment turned away from accident and emergency units of an out-of-hours GP service. The director of the because more severe emergency cases have to be National Hospitals Office is finalising arrange- treated. The Minister has not delivered on the ments for the establishment of a national audit commitments she made when she came to the and an inspection process to measure cleanliness Department of Health and Children. Ten-point in all acute hospitals. Regarding access for GPs plans are all very well, but the product has not to diagnostic services in the Dublin area, it has been delivered. The crisis is being prolonged been agreed to procure a range of diagnostic ser- unnecessarily, even though it should be abating vices from private hospitals and negotiations are now that the winter period is over. ongoing in that regard. I welcome the recent intervention of the Ms Harney: I have always made it clear that Health and Safety Authority. We all want to there are no instant solutions. I did not undertake ensure that patients and staff working in hospitals that all the solutions would be put in place during have a safe and healthy environment. The auth- the first three months of this year. ority asked hospitals to conduct a comprehensive risk assessment of their accident and emergency Ms McManus: The Minister said there will be units. The authority said it is satisfied with the a significant difference. good level of response to its letter. It has decided to pursue a targeted programme of inspections, Ms Harney: Yes, there will be a significant dif- with visits taking place to 11 units by 8 April. The ference. I have said that the Department is about authority’s review is expected to inform priorities to announce that it has succeeded in acquiring for action by the National Hospitals Office on intermediate beds for 500 patients, which will health and safety issues. greatly alleviate the pressure on accident and The wide-ranging actions to improve the deliv- emergency services. Facilities for 100 high-depen- ery of accident and emergency services are aimed dency patients, who are currently in the acute at improving access to accident and emergency hospitals system, will be developed in the next week or so. It is clear that such developments will services, improving patient flows through acci- free many beds which can be used for accident dent and emergency units, freeing acute beds and and emergency services. The difficulty we face at providing appropriate long-term care for patients present is that the controversy about nursing outside the acute setting. We would like to see home charges is making it more difficult for the more immediate solutions and to that end we are management of hospitals to encourage people to working with hospitals to deliver the measures move to more appropriate settings. That is an and to ensure that the investment produces sus- issue. I understand that the wards in Galway have tainable and long-lasting solutions. been closed because of an outbreak of flu in the hospital. Ms McManus: Is the Minister aware of how bad the situation has got? There were 34 people, Ms McManus: No, that is not the reason. an unprecedented number, on trolleys at the Uni- versity College Hospital in Galway last night, Ms Harney: It is not satisfactory that wards or even though 68 beds in the hospital were closed. beds in any public hospital should have to be Although the Minister visited the hospital closed, other than for reasons relating to health recently, I am not convinced that she is aware of care. the real situation in Galway. It is symptomatic of the real and persisting accident and emergency Ms McManus: That is not why they were crisis, which has led a nursing organisation to closed. decide to embark on a series of protests. There are serious problems in Wexford and an accident Ms Harney: We will spend over \12 billion this and emergency consultant in Cork has described year on the delivery of health care to our rela- the conditions there as “total bedlam”. Following tively young population of over 4 million people. the response of the Minister, who is full of good We have to do better with that money — that was 1667 Other 23 March 2005. Questions 1668

[Ms Harney.] the cleaning work in some cases, but that will the purpose of establishing a new unified system. change. The allocations for this year, which will be made to individual hospitals soon, will be based on per- Mr. Gormley: Hospitals are filthy. formance and results, which was not the way money was allocated in the past. Ms Harney: No hospital bed should be closed because of a lack of cleanliness. Everybody is Ms McManus: I understand that the wards in paying big money to have hospitals cleaned. I Galway have not been closed because of an out- have asked the director of the National Hospitals break of flu. It would be possible to open a cer- Office to introduce a new inspection and audit tain number of beds if cleaners were employed to approach to ensure basic cleanliness in our acute ensure that hygiene standards are maintained to hospitals, which is not too much to expect. a high level. That would relieve significantly the I agree that many more people can be treated pressure on the hospital. I do not know whether if hospital beds are put to better use. Dr. Conor the Minister has studied the number of hospital Burke, a respiratory physician at the Mater beds which have closed throughout the country. Hospital, demonstrated in a paper he published It might be interesting to assess the capacity recently that if all patients at James Connolly within our key services. The circumstances in Memorial Hospital in Blanchardstown were dis- Galway are unprecedented. The Minister’s com- charged when they were medically fit to be dis- ment that the beds will be available at some time charged, the hospital would have no problems in in the future is not a sufficient response to a crisis its accident and emergency department. It is not that has caused nurses to take to the streets at a a question of more beds, nurses or doctors, but time when they should be caring for their of ensuring that those who are fit to go home are patients. moved to an alternative facility. We need to Mr. Neville: Hear, hear. ensure that happens when it should happen. We have to learn the lessons of reports of that kind, Ms Harney: If health care workers take indus- produced by experts like Dr. Burke. We need to trial action of that kind, patients will be the only use our acute hospital system efficiently and people to suffer. effectively.

Ms McManus: They are doing it as a protest. Dr. Twomey: We should always aim to set high standards rather than minimum standards. Is it Mr. Neville: They have no choice. true that a specified minimum space of approxi- mately 1.62 m should be kept between beds in Ms Harney: That is the sad reality, as I said to hospital wards? There is a contradiction in requir- the doctors. ing a fixed distance between beds on wards when patients are practically stacked on top of each Ms McManus: They do not need lectures about other in accident and emergency departments their duties. while they wait on trolleys. We must examine why there are 20 to 30 trolleys in accident and Ms Harney: I remind Deputy McManus that emergency departments. Something seems to be the ratio of nurses to patients is higher in this wrong. country than anywhere else in the European Will the Ta´naiste to provide more information Union. I mentioned that fact to the INO. on the cleanliness of our hospitals. Patients are very unhappy and persistently complain that Ms McManus: That is a non sequitur. facilities are not clean. Will the Ta´naiste confirm that 450 cases of MRSA septicemia have Ms Harney: One of the aspects of the ten- occurred? These cases did not involve the infec- point plan—— tion of people’s skin, but of their bloodstreams. Given the mortality and morbidity rates associ- Ms McManus: That is a total non sequitur. ated with MRSA, it is a very significant number Ms Harney: We are trying to ensure that there of cases. is a sufficient number of staff to deal with Most of the Ta´naiste’s ten-point plan to patients. address the accident and emergency crisis focuses on the Dublin region in which the incidence of Mr. Neville: The Ta´naiste should say that to trolley use is highest. However, can she explain the Ruddle family. why a level one trauma unit which caters to the whole south of the country had to close its acci- Ms Harney: Hospital cleanliness is one of the dent and emergency department to walk-in casu- matters addressed in the ten-point plan. We are alties last week? Is it not ridiculous that the paying the top price to have our hospitals cle- second largest city had to close its major accident aned. Many cleaning contracts have been out- and emergency department to walk-in patients sourced to big contractors, who are receiving for any period, even if it was only four or five huge amounts of money. Nobody is supervising hours? 1669 Other 23 March 2005. Questions 1670

I presume the MRI scanner at Beaumont the way people are paid and facilities are used. It Hospital is there to cater for patients who have does not make sense for the taxpayers to spend been transferred from hospitals nationwide out of millions of euro to buy equipment for hospitals if hours and require emergency scans. Will the it is not used to the maximum capacity. We must Ta´naiste explain what she will do about the deal with the factors which have resulted in the switching off of CAT scanners throughout current scenario. As we know, it is often the case Ireland at 4 p.m. or 5 p.m.? Why is there no pro- that people occupying hospital beds do not need posal in her ten-point plan to deal with CAT scan to be there but are admitted while they await machines throughout the country which are not particular tests. If greater use were made of exist- operational 24 hours per day, seven days per ing facilities, people would not have to avail of week? inpatient services to access appropriate tests. Will the Ta´naiste provide more detail on the That is a fact. out-of-hours co-operative on the north side of I understand a number of initiatives are being Dublin city? What is its structure? While the co- undertaken on the north side of Dublin. A group operative represents an important, positive move called Touchstone has undertaken an initiative to forward, like all such facilities it must be estab- provide general practitioner services in Mulhud- lished in a way which ensures it operates with dart. I understand doctors on the north side have maximum efficiency. come together and done very productive work on It is disingenuous to say that patients suffer an out-of-hours facility. They will shortly be in a when nurses go on strike as patients are already position to make an announcement. Existing gen- suffering as a result of our failure to deal with eral practitioners wish to provide the service the health service crisis. I worked in the hospital themselves and I would be very supportive of service until ten years ago, including the accident that. They are engaged in intense discussions with and emergency department in Cork to which I Angela Fitzgerald to whom I have given responsi- have referred and the Meath Hospital in Dublin. bility for the implementation of the ten-point While things were bad then, there were only accident and emergency plan. between ten and 20 patients on trolleys in Dublin city. There are now up to 300 patients on trolleys Mr. Boyle: I notice the Ta´naiste did not answer here. Nurses do not strike because, as the Deputy Twomey’s question on the closure of the Ta´naiste said, there are too many of them. They accident and emergency department at Cork Uni- do so because the service continues to disimprove versity Hospital a fortnight ago. While 30 people remarkably. Accident and emergency staff were on trolleys in the department, dozens more operate in circumstances of significant stress, were turned away. The senior consultant at the which the Ta´naiste should take on board. She department, Mr. Stephen Cusack, described the should visit an accident and emergency depart- scenario as one involving the sending away of ment on a Saturday night to witness the behav- walking wounded. Does the Ta´naiste find it iour of people who have had too much to drink. acceptable that not only did this occur, there con- tinues to be great uncertainty about the new acci- Ms Harney: There is no doubt that the volume dent and emergency facility which has been built of activity in our hospitals has increased signifi- on the hospital’s grounds and remains unopened cantly. While we must be fair and acknowledge despite statements by her party colleagues that it that there are problems in accident and emer- would be opened this very month? Will the gency services, they are part of the wider problem Ta´naiste provide definite information as to when in the health system. Some people access the accident and emergency problems in the hospitals through accident and emergency depart- major hospital in the southern region will be ments because they cannot access an appropriate alleviated? outpatient department. There are many factors which must fit together. Increasing the number of Ms Harney: I apologise for failing to deal with consultant posts, especially in certain specialties that aspect of Deputy Twomey’s contribution. I and at regional level, is part of the solution in visited the new accident and emergency facility in the medium term. The measures being taken are Cork. The reason it has not opened has nothing aimed at dealing with the crisis as we see it. to do with the failure to make resources available It is not acceptable that people should spend but with logistical issues. A date has been set for days on trolleys before being admitted to an acute the opening of the department to which I will hospital bed. Nobody could be happy with such ensure Deputy Boyle is invited. If memory serves circumstances. It may have been understandable me correctly, it will open on the morning of 7 in the mid-1980s when we had less resources and April. I am subject to correction. Clearly, the cutbacks were made in health because the econ- facility will greatly improve services at Cork Uni- omy was unable to sustain public spending levels versity Hospital. I also visited the new day bed but there is no explanation for it today. unit at the hospital which will greatly enhance I agree with Deputy Twomey about the more elective surgery services and alleviate pressure on efficient use of facilities over longer hours. Part the main hospital wards. of the difficulty relates to industrial relations As the Deputy is aware, many initiatives are issues and the manner in which people are paid. being undertaken at Cork University Hospital. It We must therefore ensure greater flexibility in is not acceptable that as an accident and emer- 1671 Other 23 March 2005. Questions 1672

[Ms Harney.] 79. Mr. Deenihan asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- gency service a department should be closed for ster for Health and Children the action she pro- even half an hour, never mind a number of hours. poses to take to improve cancer services in Cork It is not a sustainable scenario or one over which and Kerry, following the resignation of an oncol- anybody could stand. ogist in Cork due to the failure of her Depart- ment to provide the necessary funding to create Ms McManus: The information to be gathered a dedicated cancer ward within Cork University by the Health and Safety Authority will be ready Hospital; and if she will make a statement on the by 8 April. I presume the Ta´naiste will publish matter. [9383/05] the information in which there will be great 89. Mr. Timmins asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- public interest. Since she abolished the health ster for Health and Children if she has satisfied boards we have had no forum to ensure that herself that the level of services for cancer treat- information of this type is disseminated. Will she ment at Cork University Hospital is acceptable in ensure it is? light of the fact that numerous reports are con- What is the position on capital projects for sidering centralising cancer treatment in the hospitals this year? Will they be announced by south at this hospital; and if she will make a state- the Health Service Executive? ment on the matter. [9505/05] An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: The Deputy is 108. Dr. Twomey asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- widening the scope of the question. ster for Health and Children if she will make a statement on the delivery of chemotherapy, Ms McManus: It is relevant to accident and oncology and radiation oncology at Cork Univer- emergency services and has direct relevance to sity Hospital following the recent resignation of a my question. consultant at the hospital. [9511/05] 110. Mr. Kehoe asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- Ms Harney: As I do not have responsibility for ster for Health and Children when the oncology the Health and Safety Authority, I do not have ward for Cork University Hospital is due to open; responsibility for its report. If the report is made and if she will make a statement on the available to me, I will have no difficulty pub- matter. [9502/05] lishing it. I am sure it will be obtainable under freedom of information provisions. It is not a 114. Mr. Boyle asked the Ta´naiste and Minister matter on which legal advice will need to be for Health and Children her views on the resig- taken. nation of a consultant oncologist from the staff of The capital programme is being finalised and Cork University Hospital, ostensibly due to the will be announced in the next two to three weeks. failure to establish a dedicated cancer ward at the It is hoped we will be in a position to make an hospital; and if she has satisfied herself that can- announcement shortly after Easter. cer care facilities in the southern region are prop- erly resourced. [9437/05] Hospital Services. 118. Mr. Quinn asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- 9. Mr. Connaughton asked the Ta´naiste and ster for Health and Children if her attention has Minister for Health and Children the number of been drawn to the recent resignation of a cancer new patients treated at the oncology unit at Cork specialist at Cork University Hospital (details University Hospital in 2004; and if she will make supplied) due to the lack of a dedicated ward for a statement on the matter. [9506/05] cancer patients and the generally inadequate 13. Mr. Timmins asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- facilities; the steps being taken to deal with this ster for Health and Children her views on the fact situation and to avert the loss of such specialists; that an oncologist at Cork University Hospital and if she will make a statement on the recently tendered his resignation due to the lack matter. [9420/05] of resources at Cork University Hospital; and if Ms Harney: I propose to take Questions Nos. 9, she will make a statement on the matter. 13, 18, 67, 79, 89, 108, 110, 114, and 118 together. [9504/05] Mobility of key personnel is a regular feature 18. Mr. Connaughton asked the Ta´naiste and of the hospital system as demonstrated by the Minister for Health and Children if her attention ease with which medical staff transfer from pres- has been drawn to the delays in treatment at the tigious hospitals abroad to take up positions in oncology unit at Cork University Hospital; and if Ireland. It is also the case that medical consult- she will make a statement on the matter. ants in various oncology disciplines, including [9507/05] medical oncology, radiation oncology, surgery and haematology, transfer within our hospital 67. Mr. Kehoe asked the Ta´naiste and Minister system. Many of these transfers take place for a for Health and Children her views on the fact that combination of professional, career and personal there is only one permanent oncologist at Cork reasons. In regard to the transfer of the medical University Hospital; and if she will make a state- oncologist referred to by the Deputies, it is ment on the matter. [9503/05] important to acknowledge that the hospital 1673 Adjournment 23 March 2005. Debate Matters 1674 system here has retained his particular expertise south Tipperary and Waterford. Patients from for the cure and care of cancer patients. Wexford are even expected to travel to this Considerable investment has been made in the hospital. development of cancer services in the southern region in recent years. Since 1997, additional Mr. Boyle: Not only is there a delay in the roll- cumulative funding of approximately \76 million out of the BreastCheck programme but the has been allocated for the development of appro- Ta´naiste should be aware of the uncertainty of priate treatment and care services for people with the future of the children’s leukaemia unit at the cancer in the region. Cumulative additional fund- Mercy University Hospital. These things taken ing of approximately \6.5 million has been made together mean that cancer treatment in the Cork available for the development of breast disease city area and the Cork and Kerry regions is facing services in the region during the period 2001-04. a most uncertain future. Will the Ta´naiste use the This funding has provided for the recruitment of opportunity of her reply to provide some clarity an additional 11 consultants in key areas of can- and reassurance on this matter? It would help cer care. The funding has also provided for the patients in this area who fear that the quality of appointment of 27 cancer care nurses. their services is being eroded on a daily basis. Capital funding of over \4 million has been provided for the development of radiation Ms Harney: The whole intention is to improve oncology services at Cork University Hospital the quality of services at regional level. In the and ongoing revenue funding of \3 million is case of the dedicated oncology ward, we need being provided to cater for the expansion of this such a facility at Cork University Hospital. It is service. As regards the development of a dedi- intended that a dedicated oncology ward will be cated oncology ward, the Health Service Execu- provided when the new day ward is opened. I tive has advised that this is a priority. hope that will happen soon. Provisional figures supplied by the Health Ser- A replacement consultant will be sought as vice Executive indicate that in 2004 approxi- quickly as possible. In regard to BreastCheck, I mately 950 new patients in total were referred to will announce the whole capital programme medical oncology services in the region’s four together rather than in a piecemeal way. It is a main hospitals. This number increases to 3,106 priority to roll out BreastCheck in both Cork and when radiation oncology and haematology ser- Galway. It has been a highly successful prog- vice figures are included. I am advised that there ramme. We aim to meet the target date of having are no delays for chemotherapy and haematology it in place in 2007. services at Cork University Hospital. My Depart- ment has asked the chief officer for the execu- Mr. Boyle: What about the leukaemia unit? tive’s southern area to supply to the Deputies a Ms Harney: I will come back to the Deputy on more detailed response to the issues raised, that. I am having inquiries made. including recruitment of replacement staff. Written answers follow Adjournment Debate. Dr. Twomey: There will be a significant increase in the number of patients requiring treat- ment for cancer in the south. Does the Ta´naiste Adjournment Debate Matters. consider it medically safe that there is only one An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: I wish to advise permanent oncologist in Cork University the House of the following matters in respect of Hospital and that there is no dedicated medical which notice has been given under Standing oncology ward in this hospital, which is providing Order 21 and the name of the Member in each cancer services in not only the second largest city case: (1) Deputy Sargent — that the Minister in Ireland but in the whole of the south? There is change current Government policy resulting in no BreastCheck service and no development on many special needs education teaching posts the BreastCheck programme in Cork. The being filled by unrecognised and untrained per- Ta´naiste is aware of the international trading sonnel; (2) Deputy Gormley — the need for the centre site. I believe there is also a problem in Government to implement its commitment in the regard to what Hanly had promoted in his report. programme for Government to reduce class sizes; There is a move to centralise much of the can- (3) Deputy Pat Breen — that the Minister take cer treatment services in terms of breast cancer steps in line with the Government manifesto to and other forms of cancer into the Cork Univer- reduce class sizes in primary schools throughout sity Hospital site, yet it currently has no dedicated County Clare; (4) Deputy Neville — construction oncology unit and only one permanent oncolo- of a new national school at Kilfinane, County gist. The only reason chemotherapy is provided Limerick; (5) Deputy Allen — the decision of the on time at present is that the staff are working Irish Medicines Board to instruct the Mercy Uni- flat out in the hospital. Is this medically safe? Is versity Hospital, Cork, to suspend all clinical trial it the right way to proceed in an area with a large related activities for the treatment of leukaemia; population where one would expect a higher level (6) Deputy Keaveney — to ask the Minister to of expertise? Cork University Hospital provides discuss the possibility of introducing the stingray a service in the southern part of the country not system into the Republic for the detection of only to Cork and Kerry but also to Limerick, motor tax offences; (7) Deputy Gilmore — the 1675 Tribunals of Inquiry: 23 March 2005. Motion (Resumed) 1676

[An Leas-Cheann Comhairle.] revealed that, if accepted, could be case of a constituent who is suffering from vCJD found to constitute collusion; in a Dublin hospital; (8) Deputy Breeda Moyni- han-Cronin — the need for the Minister to — mindful that certain incidents from the address the consequences for cancer patients of past in Northern Ireland giving rise to the lack of an oncology ward in Cork University serious allegations of collusion by secur- Hospital; (9) Deputy Rabbitte — the need for a ity forces in each jurisdiction remain a full investigation into the circumstances of the source of grave public concern; charging of a person (details supplied) in connec- resolves that it is expedient that a tribunal tion with the murder of two women in Grange- established under the Tribunals of Inquiry gorman in 1997; (10) Deputy Cowley — to ask (Evidence) Acts 1921 to 2002 to inquire into the Minister if he agrees that providing a second the following definite matter of urgent terminal at Dublin Airport flies in the face of public importance: balanced regional development; (11) Deputy Deenihan — the resignation of an oncologist over — Suggestions that members of the Garda the lack of cancer services for 900 cancer patients Sı´ocha´na or other employees of the in Cork and Kerry and the need for the Minister State colluded in the fatal shootings of to take a more hands-on approach; and (12) RUC Chief Superintendent Harry Deputy Broughan — the urgent need to order an Breen and RUC Superintendent inquiry into serious complaints made by a citizen Robert Buchanan on 20 March 1989; (details supplied) on which the Garda Complaints and to report to the Clerk of Da´il E´ ireann Board and the Garda Commissioner have yet to and to make such findings and recommend- report. ations as it sees fit in relation to these The matters raised by Deputies Allen, Cowley, matters; Keaveney and Rabbitte have been selected for discussion. and further resolves that: (I) the tribunal shall report to the Clerk of Tribunals of Inquiry: Motion (Resumed). the Da´il on an interim basis not later than three months from the date of establishment The following motion was moved by the Mini- of the tribunal and as soon as may be after ster for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, the tenth day of any oral hearings of the tri- Deputy McDowell, on Wednesday, 23 March bunal on the following matters: 2005: (a) the number of parties granted rep- resentation by the tribunal, That Da´il E´ ireann: (b) the progress which will then have — noting that following agreement been made in the hearings and work of reached between the British and Irish the tribunal, Governments at Weston Park in 2001, retired Canadian Supreme Court Judge (c) the likely duration, so far as might Mr. Peter Cory was appointed to under- then be capable of being estimated, of the take a thorough investigation of alle- proceedings of the tribunal, gations of collusion between British and (d) any other matters that the tribunal Irish security forces and paramilitaries considers should be drawn to the attention in six incidents; of the Houses of the Oireachtas at the time — noting that the aim of this process was of the report, including any matters relat- to determine whether there is sufficient ing to its terms of reference; evidence of collusion between State (II) if the tribunal finds that there is insuf- security forces and those responsible for ficient co-operation from a person(s) not the killings in each case to warrant a compellable to give evidence pursuant to the public inquiry; provisions of the Tribunals of Inquiry — noting that, as part of the Weston Park (Evidence) Acts 1921 to 2002, to report that agreement, the two Governments com- fact to the Clerk of the Da´il, including the mitted themselves that in the event that steps taken by the tribunal to obtain the co- a public inquiry is recommended in any operation of that person(s), for consideration case, the relevant Government will by the Houses of the Oireachtas, in conjunc- implement that recommendation; tion with the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, having regard to the public — noting that having completed his inves- interest; and tigation into the murder of Chief Super- intendent Harry Breen and Superin- (III) the inquiry shall be completed in as tendent Robert Buchanan, both of the economical a manner as possible and at the Royal Ulster Constabulary RUC, Mr. earliest possible date consistent with a fair Peter Cory concluded that evidence was examination of the matters referred to it. 1677 Tribunals of Inquiry: 23 March 2005. Motion (Resumed) 1678

Mr. Rabbitte: Following a meeting with Mr. available to this tribunal. The tribunal should be Michael Finucane last January, I wrote to Mr. allowed to examine the entire background to the Peter Cory. I set out the purpose of that. I allegations made, particularly in regard to the especially want to advert to one paragraph which individual who claims to have persuaded Judge states: “In the present circumstances, it strikes me Cory to request that it be established. that it would be of particular assistance to all con- Toby Harnden is one of the sources for the cerned if we had the benefit of your own assess- claims that there was collusion involving ment as to whether the Bill published by the Brit- members of the Garda in the killing of Chief ish Government satisfies the test set out by you Superintendent Breen and Superintendent in your report.” In the event, although Mr. Cory Buchanan. He has already been castigated by was initially reluctant to comment until the legis- Judge Peter Cory for failing to substantiate that lation had been finalised, he made public his posi- claim. Cory said his interviews with both Harnden tion last week. and Kevin Myers revealed how little these gentle- At this stage, the Bill has passed the House of men relied on fact and how much on suspicion Lords and is before the House of Commons. Mr. and hearsay. Cory said that any attempt by Britain to limit the Harnden has already been found to have made scope of the inquiry into the killing of Pat an unsubstantiated allegation that those killed in Finucane would make an independent investi- Bloody Sunday in Derry had been involved in gation “impossible”. He further stated: “I don’t violence that day. It would appear that Harnden know how any self-respecting Canadian judge distorted a statement given to him by one of the would be part of it in light of the restrictions on paratroopers involved in that event. Kevin Myers, independence it would impose.” He confirmed who repeated the allegations made by Harnden, the initial point he made in his report. He stated: has already reacted in his usual manner, by “There was only one standard for a public inquiry attacking Cory, comparing him to Homer at the time of the Weston Park accord.” That Bill Simpson. There has been speculation that both is also opposed by senior members of the British Myers and Harnden will attempt to avoid giving judiciary, including the head of the Bloody Sun- evidence to the tribunal, further proof of the shal- day inquiry, Lord Saville, and the Lord Chief low nature of their claims. Justice, Lord Woolf. The centre of the allegation is a person named Mr. Mitchell Reiss, the US envoy to Northern Peter Keely, who uses the name Kevin Fulton. Ireland, has expressed concern that the new legis- Keely, who claimed to have been a British agent lation could potentially reduce the independence within the IRA, was discredited by Scotland and transparency of an investigation into the Yard, which claimed his false information cost it murder. He stated: £1.5 million in wasted police time. Another source is a person named Martin Ingram, other- Whatever legislative instrument is used, my wise known as Jack Graham. He claims to have concern is that the inquiry has the necessary worked for the Force Research Unit and was legal powers to establish the truth of what hap- completely discredited when—— pened in the Finucane case and that the process has the confidence of the people in Northern Ireland. The chair and other members of the An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: The Deputy inquiry should be fully satisfied that the terms should refrain from mentioning names. of reference will provide them with the auth- ority necessary to establish the truth and to Mr. Ferris: Okay. He was completely dis- examine thoroughly the allegations of collusion credited when he appeared at the Saville tribunal. highlighted by Judge Cory. It is interesting that both he and the other person mentioned have similar claims and used each This House must unite in making the same point other to back up their scurrilous allegations. It that has been repeated by the Finucane family, would appear that the Garda Sı´ocha´na has Mr Peter Cory, republican and Nationalist parties already formed an opinion as regards the in the North, senior British judges, the Bush reliability of their statements. The Garda also Administration and other leading Irish American described one of them as an intelligent nuisance politicians. It is not too late for the British and a serial informer who is not to be trusted. Government to rethink its position on this issue Yet they are the people whose claims are to form and to live up to the commitments it made at the basis for the setting up of this tribunal. Weston Park. We are therefore entitled to ask what really lies behind the tribunal. I do not doubt that Judge Mr. Ferris: I wish to share time with Deputy Cory was genuine in his belief that the claims Boyle and Deputy Cowley. made by the aforementioned warranted further investigation, but I contend that he was gravely An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Is that agreed? misled by that individual. A closer examination Agreed. of his purported evidence would have come to the same conclusion as investigations into other Mr. Ferris: I endorse the request made by claims concerning Garda collusion in the killing Deputy O´ Caola´in that everybody with relevant of Justice Gibson. There must surely be a sus- information ought to make himself or herself picion, therefore, that allegations made are part 1679 Tribunals of Inquiry: 23 March 2005. Motion (Resumed) 1680

[Mr. Ferris.] that allegations and practices of this type do not of an attempt by British agencies to divert atten- occur. The danger is that there has been a differ- tion from the ongoing investigations of their roles ence in approach as regards many of the neces- in events in this country. sary investigations and tribunals, depending on This also comes at a time when a concerted and the mover of the inquiry. To its credit, the Irish possibly successful attempt is being made to Government has moved more speedily and in a ensure that Peter Cory’s investigations into those better direction than others involved in satisfying events will be sabotaged in the same manner as much of the uncertainly surrounding such incid- previous investigations into the involvement in ences. Unfortunately that lack of parallel violence by the British state. It would appear the development hinders the full resolution of all Taoiseach shares this view as he has come out in these incidences. As a responsible Opposition support of Peter Cory, who has strongly criticised party, the Green Party intends to play its part in the Inquiries Bill, which is designed to thwart any ensuring matters are progressed and in offering meaningful inquiry into the death of Pat Finucane the Government any support it can in this regard. as well as into many other instances where the We believe, however, that the wider picture British state is suspected to have been involved may be better determined if we embrace the in the killing of those it claims to be its citizens. South African truth and justice commission It is surely convenient at this time, when the spot- model, because of the number of incidences that light should be on the murky role of British intel- needs to be properly brought out into the open. ligence, that this tribunal has been initiated on There is a need for a proper mechanism which the basis of what are generally believed to be will allow the truth to be told, properly recorded baseless allegations made by discredited journal- and moved on from. The piecemeal approach is ists, who have relied on their own imaginations leading us into cul-de-sacs where fingers can be and the word of discredited informers. If one of pointed and active and fevered imaginations are the aforementioned informers turns out to be a given full rein in determining who is working genuine agent, why did he make the claims, and against whom in asking for such tribunals. On all at whose behest? these grounds, while supporting this particular Finally, I note the Minister for Justice, Equality motion for the setting up of a tribunal, we ask the and Law Reform, Deputy McDowell, in his Government to use whatever mechanism it can in remarks did not endorse the Taoiseach’s support the current state of the process between the Brit- for Judge Cory’s conclusions regarding the efforts ish Government and other actors, as regards the to sabotage the Finucane and other inquiries. Northern Ireland peace process, to investigate Neither did he refer to the refusal by the British and promote the model that seems to have authorities to co-operate in a meaningful way worked so well in South Africa. That is probably with the investigation into the Dublin and the best mechanism for overcoming the dozens if Monaghan bombings. not hundreds of incidences that still require proper explanations. Mr. Boyle: As my party colleague, Deputy This tribunal of inquiry will only go part of the Cuffe, has already stated, the Green Party sup- way towards arriving at some manner of expla- ports this motion calling for the establishment of nation to account for these two needless, yet a tribunal of inquiry into the deaths of Superin- sadly significant, deaths. tendents Breen and Buchanan and possible Garda collusion. It is somewhat ironic that one of Dr. Cowley: It is important to get the truth, the two murder victims shares the surname of a where deaths are unaccounted for. People are relatively iconic figure in Irish history who par- putting forward the proposition that there has ticipated in the War of Independence and the been collusion as regards the deaths of these two Civil War. This is probably one of hundreds of RUC officers. Judge Cory was frustrated by the ironies that have bedevilled the history of con- British Government in his attempts to find out flicts on this island in the last century. Of course what he needed to know in the past. There is a in moral terms, as much as anything, we have an great need to find out whether collusion has obligation to investigate crimes of this nature and taken place. to ensure the allegations are fully investigated I have been reading in Lost Lives the story of and if proven, acted upon in the most respon- the men, women and children who have died as sible way. a result of the Troubles in Northern Ireland. The As my colleague also stated, the Green Party book describes the killing of Chief has some concerns in terms of the wider aspect 4 o’clock Superintendent Breen. As the Mini- of investigating the many instances of outrage ster said, he tried to reverse away, that have not been properly investigated in all but was unable to do so. The vehicle’s back wheel parts of this island as regards the involvement, became stuck in a ditch. When security forces in particular, of judicial forces. There are other went to the scene, they found the car still in elements of this conflict which relate to extra- reverse gear, with the driver’s foot still fully judicial forces that cannot account for themselves depressed on the accelerator pedal. Chief Super- in the same way. Those of us who form the appar- intendent Breen was lying by the roadside. atus of or man the agencies of the State have a Apparently documents had been taken from the particular democratic responsibility in ensuring car and the ignition key was in the lock of the 1681 Tribunals of Inquiry: 23 March 2005. Motion (Resumed) 1682 open boot. The policemen were unarmed, as unable to say if there had been collusion or who required by law in the Irish republic. They had the perpetrators were. been at a meeting in Dundalk that lasted for an This works both ways. We want the IRA to co- hour and the two policemen drove north soon operate in bringing the murderers of Robert afterwards. McCartney to justice, and rightly so. It is It is important that allegations of collusion are important, therefore, that the British authorities investigated. There is a view, however, that there co-operate in bringing forward the truth about was also collusion in the Dublin and Monaghan the Dublin and Monaghan bombings. It has been bombings. Mr. Justice Barron suspected as much noted by the joint committee that the failure to and Mr. Sea´n Donlon, the former Secretary Gen- bring forward this information is in breach of the eral of the Department of Foreign Affairs, Good Friday Agreement, which states that the appeared convinced that there had been collusion participants believe it is essential to acknowledge and said so to the Oireachtas Joint Committee on and address the suffering of the victims of viol- Justice, Equality, Defence and Women’s Rights. ence as a necessary element of reconciliation. There is strong evidence of collusion between the What is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gan- British secret service and loyalists in the 1972 der. It is impossible to reconcile the stance of the bombings, particularly given the background of authorities in Northern Ireland and Britain with the debate on the Offences Against the State Act. this element of the agreement, as is stated in the The Dublin and Monaghan bombings of May report of the sub-committee into the Barron 1974 were the worst single atrocity in the report. Troubles. Three bombs exploded in Dublin city I brought to the British-Irish Parliamentary centre, on Parnell Street, Talbot Street and South Body the question on the need for an inquiry and Leinster Street, on a busy Friday evening. There for an answer from the British authorities. I asked was no warning and the explosions killed 26 for a public inquiry into the matter and warned people, including a pregnant woman. A short that we would, if necessary, take them to the time later a bomb exploded in Monaghan town European Court of Human Rights. I was told in and seven people were killed as a result. There a reply: are unanswered questions and a strong suspicion of British army collusion in these attacks. These Prime Minister Blair wrote to the Taoiseach families, like the families of Chief Superintendent on the Dublin and Monaghan bombings in 1974 Breen and Superintendent Buchanan, are entitled and the Dublin bombings of 1972 and 1973 on to the truth. 10 January 2005. The letter was passed on to There have been delays. The British Govern- the Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, ment said it would treat sympathetically any Equality, Defence and Women’s Rights. . . request put to it by Mr. Justice Barron, but when In that letter the British Prime Minister said: he requested information on security and other “The Government welcomed the establishment files on the Dublin and Monaghan bombings, he of the Barron inquiry and co-operated with it did not get a proper response. The British as fully as possible, conducting a thorough Government must have files on this. For 12 years search of all government records. . . the UVF claimed responsibility for the bombs but The Government notes Mr. Justice Barron’s many relatives believe the UVF was helped by conclusions that, while allegations of collusion British intelligence services that wanted to warn between the British security forces and the per- the Irish Government not to interfere in petrators of the bombing were not fanciful, he Northern Ireland. The bombings took place dur- had not seen any evidence to corroborate it and ing the Ulster workers’ strike and the UVF was it could not be inferred, even as a probability. blamed for them, but the sophisticated nature of In the circumstances, the [British] Govern- the devices fuelled suspicions that it had British ment concludes that no further benefit to the military help. public interest would accrue from the establish- There are unanswered questions across the ment of an inquiry, within the United board and it is important that the truth comes Kingdom, to re-examine these allegations. out. The Oireachtas Joint Committee on Justice, On the matter of British co-operation with Equality, Defence and Women’s Rights did vic- Justice Barron’s extended inquiry into the tims a service by giving them an opportunity to Dublin bombings of 1972 and 1973, it was our express their feelings on the situation and recog- [the British Government’s] judgment at the nising the importance of getting to the bottom of time of Justice Barron’s approach that, given the matter. The sub-committee that reported on our experience of the scale of the task in identi- the findings of the Barron inquiry noted the lack fying relevant material in the Dublin- of co-operation Mr. Justice Barron received from Monaghan and Dundalk bombings, it would the Northern Ireland Office and the British auth- not be possible to conduct another major orities. The Da´il and Seanad committee experi- search through our records relating to the enced the same difficulty. Correspondence was 1972/73 bombings within the timescale of the sent to current and former office holders in inquiry.” Northern Ireland and Britain and the responses were not adequate. The report clearly states that This deserves an inquiry and the Irish Govern- this caused difficulties and, as a result, it was ment is doing its bit. The British Government 1683 Tribunals of Inquiry: 23 March 2005. Motion (Resumed) 1684

[Dr. Cowley.] vides that the proceedings under those inquiries should also do its bit. I note the response from should be held in private as much as possible the Irish Government to my question: whereas Judge Cory recommended the opposite, that this inquiry should be held in public as much The Government continues to believe that a as possible. mechanism should be found that would allow for independent scrutiny and assessment of Mr. J. O’Keeffe: One is not precluded from material and files held by the British auth- holding a commission of inquiry in public. orities. This view was reiterated by the Taoiseach when he met Prime Minister Blair in London on 1 February. The issue was also Mr. McDowell: No, but the scheme of the Act mentioned by Minister Ahern at his meeting is that its proceedings should be held in private with Secretary of State Murphy on March 2. as much as possible and, effectively, one must get the permission of the High Court to issue the Now that the report of the joint committee has report. It is not the type of tribunal Judge Cory been published, it must be considered by Govern- had in mind. Obviously on grounds of expense it ment. In its response to my question, the Govern- was quite attractive. On the other hand, in the ment stated: context of the controversy about the inquiries Bill, in which I wholeheartedly support the Recommendations include the proposal that Taoiseach’s position notwithstanding Deputy in the event that an inquiry based on the Ferris’s comments, if Ireland is seen to walk away Weston Park proposals failed as a consequence from a public inquiry, it would be regarded as a of a lack of co-operation with the Government green light for a different approach to be taken or the authorities in Great Britain or Northern by the United Kingdom and the Government Ireland, the Irish Government should consider does not accept that. instituting proceedings in the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg...However, With regard to expense, remuneration of coun- it would be our preference to get an outcome sel will be carried out on the basis of the structure through persuasion and work with the British for the payment of legal fees agreed by the Government. Government last July, that is, a maximum pay- ment to counsel at the rate of a High Court We all agree with working with the British judge’s salary for a year and perhaps less than Government and that the truth must come out. that. Judge Cory required that the inquiry should There is room here for co-operation. Collusion is be allowed to select its counsel. I am not in a debatable but so far there is no doubt about non- position, therefore, to guarantee that there will co-operation. be a tendering process. However, there will be I have an interest in this because Mr. Thomas strict control and a different approach to finances Duffy, who was killed by the car bomb that in the case of this inquiry. That is a firm decision exploded in Sackville Place in Dublin on 1 of the Government. December 1972, was from Castlebar and was Judge Peter Smithwick has agreed to chair the working as a bus conductor in Dublin. He was inquiry and to relinquish his office as President only 24 years of age. His wife, Mrs. Monica of the District Court and ex officio judge of the Duffy-Campbell, attended the sub-committee and Circuit Court for that purpose. I am grateful to gave evidence. She was anxious that there be him for agreeing to do that. some resolution to this situation because it is dif- Deputy O´ Caola´in, in an aside that was ficult to reconcile what has happened with any designed not to attract notice, used the phrase degree of closure. Time might dull the feeling but “fellow Unionists” about other Unionist persons it never goes away. There are still unanswered immediately following mention of myself. I am an questions and it is vital that we sort out the ques- Irish republican and I know what Irish republi- tion of collusion. Mrs. Duffy-Campbell told the canism means. It does not involve in this day and joint committee: age killing, shooting or bombing anybody, rob- bing banks, breaking people’s legs or extorting I will go on fighting for the next 32 years for money. None of those activities has anything to some truth. I cannot come to terms with this. I do with republicanism. will not find closure and my family will not find closure until somebody stands up and says I look forward to the establishment of a united “OK, we think these people were responsible”. Ireland under a republican constitution as much as any other Member of the House. It is the The same was said by the other victims and their vocation of Irish republicans to work towards a relatives. The truth is important and those on reconciliation of the green and orange in this both sides of the spectrum deserve no less. country, as our national flag suggests. The Pro- visional IRA and Sinn Fe´in have consistently Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform betrayed the republican cause and continue to do (Mr. McDowell): I thank the Deputies who con- so. They have constantly sought to polarise tributed to the debate and supported the Govern- Northern politics, to drive the centre into extinc- ment’s motion. Deputy Jim O’Keeffe asked why tion and to confront, in a face-to-face challenge, the Commissions of Investigation Bill was not the more rejectionist Unionists. That suits their used on this occasion. Section 8 of that Bill pro- game plan. 1685 Irish Language: 23 March 2005. Statements 1686

Looking at Magill magazine the other day, I Mr. McDowell: Those who doubt that should noticed a photograph of the widow of a German look at today’s newspapers and see how polarised industrialist, Thomas Niedermeyer. She was pic- opinion is. Sometimes we are asked to believe tured following her husband’s coffin in 1990. His that a sectarian head count in Northern Ireland body had been recovered after he was kidnapped, will decide its political future. It is interesting to held for ransom and executed by the IRA. He note that whereas the provisional movement has was no more than an industrialist trying to bring alienated and polarised Protestants in Northern prosperity to the people of Northern Ireland. The Ireland, one third of Catholics are not with the picture of his wife attending his funeral was movement on the project for a united Ireland. accompanied by a laconic note beneath to the That is a poor return for a 30-year war of liber- effect that, subsequent to the funeral, she ation. However, it is an apt reflection of what returned to Northern Ireland and committed happens after 30 years of terrorism, thuggery, suicide there. cowardice and savagery which we hope has now come to an end. I mention this because it reminded me of the Provisional IRA strategy at the time of trying to Question put and agreed to. wreck the economy of the North and the South. People have forgotten but it might be time to remind them that Galen Weston was the subject Irish Language: Statements. of an attempted kidnap by people who have sub- Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht sequently sought election in this State. Tiede Her- Affairs (E´ amon O´ Cuı´v): Ta´ a´thas orm pa´irt a rema was the subject of another kidnapping ghlacadh sa dı´ospo´ ireacht seo agus ba mhaith attempt to raise funds for the IRA. Don Tidey liom an deis seo a thapu´ chun achoimre a was also the subject of a kidnap. These efforts thabhairt don Teach ar an obair ata´ ar siu´ lagan were for the purpose of raising money by kidnap- Rialtas ar son na Gaeilge, na nithe ata´ bainte ping, demands and extortion for the cause. They amach againn go dtı´ seo agus na spriocannaı´ a were fund-raising efforts of the type we have seen bhfuil me´ fhe´in ag iarraidh dı´riu´ isteach orthu sna in recent times. The kidnappings were directed blianta amach romhainn. by a small Marxist group at the heart of the IRA, Agus muid ag caint ar na nithe ata´ bainte some of whose members are now in its leader- amach againn chun leas na Gaeilge, is do´ cha go ship, towards destruction of our economic well- gcaithfear tosnu´ leis an Acht na dTeangacha being. Oifigiu´ la. Ce´ go bhfuil ca´ineadh de´anta ar an We are now told, as a matter of history, that Acht ag roinnt iriseoirı´ agus polaiteoirı´ o´ n lucht the killing of Chief Superintendent Breen and Freasu´ ra, is le´ir nach bhfuileadar ag e´isteacht le Superintendent Buchanan was a killing of comba- lucht labhartha na Gaeilge, a de´arfadh leo gurb e´ tants. It was no such thing. The two men were an tAcht seo an rud is tabhachtaı´ a tharla o´ unarmed and were known to be unarmed. The thaobh chur chun cinn agus chaomhnu´ na Gaeilge IRA, as Deputy Jim O’Keeffe said, lied immedi- le fada an la´. Is aisteach an ru´ de´ go raibh an ately afterwards and claimed it had been bhe´im ar fad ag na polaiteoirı´ uilig ar na ambushed and frightened by the two men and heasnaimh san Acht agus e´ ag dul trı´danDa´il had resisted. The truth is that the two men were agus an Seanad. Bhı´ daoine a´ ra´ ag an am nach slaughtered in a premeditated act of butchery. ndeachaigh se sa´ch fada. Ar ndo´ igh, nuair a Even when they attempted to surrender they thosaigh na geara´in, thosaigh daoine a ra´ go were finished off on the road in a most gro- ndeachaigh se´ ro´ -fhada agus go raibh an-iomarca tesque manner. ann. Ach is do´ cha gur sin an saol, agus sin an chaoi a mbı´onn rudaı´. Is drochrud e´ go mbı´onn Sometimes the truth about this matter appears an ca´ineadh ann. Muna mbeadh ca´ineadh ann, to be lost. The Irish people should remember that shı´lfea´ nach raibh tionchar ar bith ag an Acht. the robbery of the Northern Bank was part of a Sı´lim go bhfuil se´ ta´bhachtach achoimre a piece, as robberies in this city were, in that the thabhairt ar an me´id ata´ de´anta go dtı´ seo faoin IRA has continuously asserted the right to break Acht. the criminal law of this State to raise money to Mar is eol don Teach, achtaı´odh Acht na further its political project. Those who think that dTeangacha Oifigiu´ la ar 14 lu´ il 2003. I mı´ these events are part of a glorious armed struggle Feabhra 2004, ceapadh Sea´nO´ Cuirrea´in mar to free this island should remember that the real Choimisine´ir Teanga. Cuireadh acmhainnı´ ar fa´il republicans in this House, among whom I count don Roinn agus d’Oifig an Choimisine´ara. Le myself, are the people who have built the econ- gairid, foilsı´odh che´ad tuarasca´il bhliantu´ il an omic well-being of this State, have sought recon- Choimisine´ara le Sea´nO´ Cuirrea´in. Ta´ plean ciliation with the Orange tradition in Northern gnı´mh na Roinne maidir le cur i bhfeidhm an Ireland and fight to implement the Good Friday Achta re´itithe agus a´ chur i bhfeidhm. Ta´ sce´im Agreement in a way that will bring Irish people na Roinne foilsithe agus a´ feidhmiu´ .Ta´ so close together that political unity will result. treoirlinte chun cuidiu´ le comhlachtaı´ poiblı´ sce´imeanna a ullmhu´ a´ bhfoilsiu´ o´ Mhea´n Mr. J. O’Keeffe: The Minister has not lost his Fo´ mhair 2004. D’iarr me´ ar an gce´ad 25 Fine Gael roots. comhlacht — comhlachtaı´ ta´bhachtacha poiblı´ — 1687 Irish Language: 23 March 2005. Statements 1688

[E´ amon O´ Cuı´v.] dualgas ar fad. Mar is eol do na Teachtaı´ anseo, sce´imeanna a ullmhu´ i gcomhre´ir leis na ta´im ag cur be´ime le fada ar an ta´bhacht a treoirlinte i Mea´nFo´ mhair 2004, agus ta´ su´ il bhaineann le Gaeilge o´ n gcliabha´n agus an agam go mbeidh na sce´imeanna sin curtha faoi Ghaeilge a shealbhu´ nuair a bhı´onn na gasu´ ir an- bhra´id na Roinne faoi dheireadh na mı´osa seo; o´ g. Is da´ bharr sin an dara tosaı´ocht ata´ ann, na´ ba e´ sprioc se´ mhı´ a bhı´ i gceist. Ta´ naoi n-ordu´ naı´olanna agus cre`ches, chomh maith le logainmneacha de´anta, ag cur san a´ireamh naı´oscolaı´ocht Gaeilge, a chur chun cinn do logainmneacha i gceantair Ghaeltachta, a thuismitheoirı´ a bhı´onn ag labhairt Gaeilge sa thiocfaidh i bhfeidhm ar 28 Ma´rta 2005. mbaile, ma´s rud e´ go gcaitheann an gasu´ rse´, Chomh maith leis an Acht teanga, i 2000 seacht no´ ocht n-uaire i gcre`che ina labhraı´tear tugadh aitheantas don Ghaeilge den che´ad uair i Be´arla amha´in. gcu´ rsaı´ pleana´la fisiciu´ il, agus tugadh aitheantas Ar an dtaobh eile den sce´al, cad iad na faoi leith don Ghaeilge san Acht Oideachais. fe´idearthachtaı´ ata´ ann do thuismitheoirı´ nach Bunaı´odh an gru´ pa Gaelscolaı´ochta agus bhfuil Gaeilge acu fe´in ach ata´ ba´u´ il don scoileanna Gaeilge. Freisin, i gComhaontu´ Aoine Ghaeilge, mas rud e´ go go bhfuil an gasu´ rag an Che´asta, ta´ a´it faoi leith i saol an oilea´in ag freastal ar naı´olann la´n-Ghaeilge? Ta´ se´ an Ghaeilge. aontaithe idir mo Roinn agus U´ dara´sna Tabharfaidh me cur sı´os ar ball ar na nithe — Gaeltachta go gcuirfimid gru´ pa oibre beag le agus ta´ siad lı´onmhar — ata´ bainte amach againn che´ile le ceisteanna naı´olanna Gaeltachta agus go dtı´ seo, ach ba mhaith liom ar dtu´ s na ceithre Gaeilge a chur chun cinn. Sı´lim gur rud an- rud ata´ tabhactach o´ thaobh na Gaeltachta de a ta´bhachtach e´ sin. lua. Beidh siad mar phrı´omhthosaı´ochtaı´ do 2005- Maidir le gnı´omhaı´ochtaı´ eile a bhaineann leis 06, agus aontaı´odh iad ag cruinniu´ de choiste an o´ ige, ta´ an t-airgead ar fa´il don naı´oscolaı´ocht comhairleach na Gaeltachta an Luain seo caite. du´ bailte. Ta´ sce´im nua gcampaı´ samhraidh curtha Is do´ igh liom go bhfuil an obair de´anta ag coiste ar bun. D’e´irigh thar cinn ar fad leis anuraidh, comhairleach na Gaeltachta. Nuair a agus beidh se´ ar bun arı´s i mbliana. Ta´ tu´ s curtha bhreathnaı´onn muid ar thuarasca´il an le sce´im pı´olo´ tach cuairteoirı´ baile. Is e´ an Choimisiu´ in, feiceann muid go bhfuil go leor de smaoineamh ata´ ann seo na´ tacaı´ocht a thabhairt na moltaı´ a´ gcur i bhfeidhm no´ curtha i bhfeidhm. do thuismitheoirı´ ata´ ag to´ ga´il a gclann le Ba e´ an che´ad tosaı´ocht a aontaı´odh na´ cu´ rsaı´ Gaeilge. Ta´ struchtu´ r nua cu´ ram leanaı´ bunaithe, oideachais sa nGaeltacht. Aontaı´odh go maradu´ irt me´.Ta´ forbairtı´ idir la´mhaila´thair gcaithfear dul i gcomhairle leis an Roinn na huaire maidir le sce´im labhairt na Gaeilge, Oideachais agus Eolaı´ochta maidir le ce´imeanna agus ta´ suil agam go mbeidh e´ifeacht ag an sce´im a ghlacadh mar thosaı´ochtaı´ chun torthaı´ nı´os nua a bheas a´ fo´ gairt i bhfad nı´os luaithe i saol fearr don Ghaeilge a fha´il o´ n gco´ ras oideachais an pha´iste. Ta´ struchtu´ ro´ ige Gaeltachta scoile. Ta´ se´ luaite agam go minic cheana fe´in an beartaithe ag U´ dara´s na Gaeltachta, agus ta´ se´ ag ro´ lla´rnach ata´ ag an gco´ ras oideachais sa dul chun cinn leis sin. nGaeltacht o´ thaobh fhorbairt na Gaeilge de. Ta´ an-obair a´ de´anadh ag na cu´ nto´ irı´ teanga. D’ardaigh an Coimisine´ir Teanga, Sea´nO´ Bhı´ se´ sin ar bun ar bhonn pı´olo´ tach ar fad i Cuirrea´in, an cheist seo, nı´ amha´in i gcomhthe´acs gCorca Dhuibhne sular ceapadh mar Aire me´, na Gaeltachta ach i gcomhthe´acs na´isiu´ nta. I ach ta´ an sce´im sin leathnaithe amach agam mar measc na bhfadhbanna a luaitear ta´ an curaclam, sce´im na´isiu´ nta. Mar a deir siad i mBe´arla, ta´ caighdea´n Gaeilge na mu´ inteoiri a thagann “mainstreaming” de´anta uirthi. Is do´ igh liom go amach as na cola´istı´ oiliu´ na, an t-idirdhealu´ idir bhfuil obair iontach mo´ rde´anta leis na cola´istı´ Gaeilge sna scoileanna Gaeltachta agus a´iteanna Gaeilge o´ thaobh an chaighdea´in de agus an eile, agus te´acsleabhair. fhaoiseamh ca´nach a frı´theadh anuraidh. Aon uair da´ luaitear fadhb sa tı´r seo, Chomh maith leis sin, cuireadh ardu´ mo´ raran ceanglaı´tear millea´n leis an gceist sin. Ba mhaith deontas. Ta´ ceangal anois idir an ı´ocaı´ocht o´ n linn lua ce´ ar a bhfuil an millea´n faoi rud a bheith Sta´t agus an ı´ocaı´ocht o´ na cola´istı´. Beidh ar na mar seo no´ mar sin. Go minic, bı´onn se´ sin mar cola´istı´ \1.20 a ı´oc do chuile euro a ı´ocann an bhac ar re´iteach fadhbanna. B’fhearr liom Sta´t. Beidh an Roinn ag ı´oc \9 in aghaidh an lae fadhbanna a aithint agus rud a dhe´anamh fu´ thu. i mbliana, agus da´ bharr sin, beidh na cola´istı´ Na´rbh fhearr e´ sin a dhe´anamh na´ fa´il amach ce´ Gaeilge ag ı´oc ı´osmhe´id de \10.80. De´anann se´ a bhı´ freagrach as cibe´ rud na´r tharla san am ata´ sin beagnach sco´ r euro — beidh se´ 20 cent gearr caite? Caithfimid bheith cinnte amach anseo go de. I go leor casanna, ta´ an t-airgead os cionn bhfuil scoileanna Gaeilge ag muintir na du´ bailte le roinnt bheag blianta anuas. Gaeltachta, go bhfuil na ha´iseanna teagaisc ar fa´il Bunaı´odh Acadamh na hOllscoile agus, ar do´ ibh, agus go mbeidh ar a gcumas seirbhı´s ndo´ igh, ta´ Ollscoil na hE´ ireann, Gaillimh, ag Ghaeilge den scoth a chur ar fa´il. Tagann se´ seo feidhmiu´ i nGaoth Do´ bhair anois chomh maith muid go dtı´ tosaı´ocht eile ata´ thar a bheith leis an Cheathru´ Rua agus Carna i gConamara. ta´bhachtach. Nı´ fe´idir ualach na Gaeilge sa Luaigh me´ an Chomhairle um Oideachas nGaeltacht a fha´ga´il ar na scoileanna agus na Gaelscolaı´ochta agus Scoileanna Gaeltachta mu´ inteoirı´. Rinneadh e´ sin le ro´ -fhada, agus cheana fe´in. An triu´ sprioc na´ go leanfaimid b’fhe´idir go mbrisfeadh ar fhoighid na mu´ inteoirı´ orainn ag obair ar abhair ar no´ s an Feachtas da´ gceapfaidı´s gurbh e´ orthu siu´ d a thitfeadh an Feasachta Teanga, seirbhı´s raidio´ don aos o´ g, cur 1689 Irish Language: 23 March 2005. Statements 1690 i bhfeidhm an Acht Teanga agus eile. Ta´ an Moltar i dtuarasca´il an choimisiu´ in polasaı´ Sta´it sprioc seo dı´rithe arı´saranaoso´ ig sa mhe´id is a bheachtu´ le hathre´imniu´ na Gaeilge mar go bhfuil muid ag bru´ ar aghaidh leis an obair theanga na´isiu´ nta a dhearbhu´ . D’fho´ gair me´ ar 1 tha´bhachtach a mbeidh tionchar dhı´reach aige ar Ma´rta anuraidh go mbuno´ faı´ Fo´ ram na Gaeilge dhaoine o´ ga ar no´ s an seirbhı´s raidio´ don aos o´ ig. chun aghaidh a thabhairt ar na saincheisteanna Foilseoidh suirbhe´ raidio´ le gairid agus ta´ go leor e´agsu´ la: inmholtacht plean straite´iseach soile´ir sa eolas ansin nach mbaineann go dı´reach le cu´ rsaı´ Sta´t don Ghaeilge le spriocanna realaı´ocha ann, raidio´ ach ata´ thar a bheith u´ sa´ideach. go mbeadh na to´ saı´ochtaı´ straite´ise Taispea´nann se´ ba´ an phobail don Ghaeilge i gearrthe´armacha soile´ir, go mbeadh na gcoitinne. Tre´aslaı´m saothar le BCI, a rinne tosaı´ochtaı´ maidir le cur i bhfeidhm Acht na coimisiu´ nu´ ar sin, agus a bhı´ comhmhaoinithe ag dTeangacha Oifigiu´ la soile´ir, go mbeadh na Foras na Gaeilge agus agam fe´in. Bhı´ a´thas orm bealaı´ is fearr agus is praiticiu´ la ann chun duI a chloistea´il go bhfuil cinneadh de´anta ag Raidio´ chun cinn a bhaint amach. na Gaeltachta seirbhı´s faoi leith don o´ ige a chur Bhı´ roinnt chruinnithe againnn den fho´ ram ar bun, le lı´ricı´ Be´arla, idir 9 p.m. agus 1 a.m. Is agus ta´ cruinniu´ eile le bheith ann ar an che´ad ce´im sa treo ceart e´ seo agus tre´aslaı´man mhı´ eile agus ta´ obair ar bun. De bharr an me´id nualacht le Raidio´ na Gaeltachta agus RTE´ . rudaı´ eile ata´ ar bun sa Roinn, ta´ an obair ag dul Nı´ dhe´anfaidh seo do´ char ar bith do Raidio´ na ar aghaidh. B’fhe´idir nach bhfuil se´ ag tarlu´ Gaeltachta mar ta´ margaidh e´agsu´ la ann anois chomh scioptha agus ar mhaith liom, ach an ach an oiread le pobal ar bith eile agus caithfimid fhadhb ata´ ann na´ acmhainn foirne agus ama. Is freastal ar na margaidh sin. Nı´ mar an gce´anna an soile´ir o´ nme´id ata´ ra´ite go dtı´ seo agus an me´id rud a bheinn ag e´irı´ ae´isteacht leis agus a bheadh ata´ ar bun go bhfuil muid ag e´iri go leor leor a lucht an lae inniu ag e´isteacht leis, go speisialta i bhru´ ar aghaidh ag an am ce´anna. Rud eile ata´ de´anta´ na´ tionscnamh maidir le gcu´ rsaı´ ceoil. \ Baineann an ceathru´ sprioc le pleana´il sa pleana´il teanga gur fiu´ 1.56 milliu´ n. Ta´ seo bunaithe ar an nGaeltacht agus pleana´il teanga Ghaeltacht. Ceist achrannach ı´ ach nı´ fe´idir pobail ata´ i gceist. Ta´ se´ le cur i bhfeidhm i seasamh siar ag ligint orainn fe´in nach bhfuil sı´ gcomhar le hU´ dara´s na Gaeltachta, a chaith suas ann. Ba mhaith liom na himreoirı´ a thabhairt le ata´ \110,000 in aghaidh na bliana ag tabhairt che´ile go dtiocfaimis ar thuairim coitianta. Ta´ mo airgid do ghru´ paı´ pobail e´agsu´ la go reiteo´ idı´s Roinn fein agus an Roinn Comhshaoil, agus go bhfeidhmeoidı´s pleananna ceart pobal ´ Oidhreachta agus Rialtais Aitiuil ag obair ar an teanga. gceist seo agus ta´ gru´ pa oibre, NASC, bunaithe D’fho´ gair me´ imı´ Aibrea´in 2003 go mbeidh ar a bhfuil U´ dara´s na Gaeltachta, na comhairlı´ 20% de bhuise´ad caipitil U´ dara´s na Gaeltachta a condae Gaeltachta agus Cola´iste na hOllscoile i infheistiu´ i dtionscail ina bhfuil se soile´ir go bhfuil nGaillimh pa´irteach ann. Ta´ dre´acht-threoirlı´nte u´ sa´id agus leathadh na Gaeilge mar pleana´la re´itithe ag NASC do na Gaeltachtaı´ ar phrı´omhmhea´n cumarsa´ide sa Ghaeltacht fad. Ta´ sin feicthe agam — ta´ iarracht maith la´rnach. Seoladh sce´im fiontraı´ocht Ghaeilge sa de´anta ach ta´ roinnt mhaith le ple´. Tuigim o´ n Ghaeltacht i mı´ Meithimh 2003. u´ dara´s go mbeidh se´ ag reachta´il seimina´ir faoi Ila´thair na huaire, ta´ me´ ag de´anamh chu´ ram NASC chun iad seo a phle´. Beidh me´ fe´in athbhreithniu´ cuimsitheach ar chumhachtaı´ agus agus mo Roinn ag glacadh pa´irt dearfach san fheidhmeanna U´ dara´s na Gaeltachta. Mar obair seo le go dtiocfaimı´s ar threoirlı´nte ag a thoradh ar an athbhreithniu´ seo, d’iarr an Roinn mbeidh ceannach isteach ag feidhmeannaigh na aighneachtaı´ an phobail agus ta´ suas le 70 gcomhairlı´ condae agus, nı´os ta´bhachtaı´,agna aighneacht faighte. Scru´ do´ far go mionn iad sa comhairlı´ tofa ag pobal na Gaeltachta. Roinn ach nı´ fheicfidh mise iad go dtı´ tar e´is an Labhair me´ faoin mBille teanga agus faoi toghcha´in. Ta´ se´ ta´bhachtach go mbreathno´ imid Choimisiu´ n na Gaeltachta. Is cinnte go bhfuil ar an u´ dara´s i gcomhthe´acs na riachtanas ata´ ann muid ag leanu´ int ag cur moltaı´ an choimisiu´ in i ila´thair na huaire. bhfeidhm. Ceann de na moltaı´ i dtuarasca´il Ta´ staide´ar teangeolaı´ochta tosaithe sa Choimisiu´ n na Gaeltachta na´ sta´das oifigiu´ il don nGaeltacht agus ta´ ga´ go mbeidh crite´ir soile´ir Ghaeilge san Eorap a lorg. An t-am seo anuraidh, ann cad e´ Gaeltacht agus go bhfa´gfaidh an rogha nı´ raibh mo´ ra´ndo´ chas ag daoine go nde´anfadh le pobal na Gaeltachta fe´in an dteastaı´onn uatha mo´ ra´n dul chun cinn leis an gceist seo. Ghlac an bheith taobh istigh no´ amuigh. Nı´lmo´ ra´n glacadh Rialtas cinneadh luath i mı´ Iu´ il seo caite go agam leis, is cuma cad a deir polaiteoirı´. lorgo´ faı´ sta´das oifigiu´ il oibre don Gaeilge. Ta´ na Gaeltacht ina bhfuil daoine mı´sha´sta go mbeidh comhra´itı´ fo´ s ar bun ach is fe´idir a ra´ go bhfuil na hainmneacha i nGaeilge no´ rianaibh e´igin den obair iontach de´anta o´ shin leis an cha´s seo a chur nGaeilge ann, agus ag an am ce´anna nach bhfuil chun cinn. Ta´ se´ ta´bhachtach go leanfar leis an ag e´irı´ sta´das Gaeltachta a chailleadh, nı´l aon obair le go mbainfear an sprioc sin amach. Ta´ se´ chiall lena leithe´id a bheith mar Ghaeltacht agus freisin ta´bhachtach a thuiscint ma´ bhainfear caithfimid crite´ir a leagan sı´os a ra´ ma´ thaistı´onn amach e´ nach fe´idir linn a bheith ag breathnu´ ar sta´das Gaeilge o´ cheantar, caithfidh se´ cloı´gh leis an Eorap ag tabhairt sta´das oifigiu´ il oibre don na crite´ir sin. Ghaeilge mura a bhfuil sinn sa´sta an oiread Ba mhaith liom dı´riu´ sa bhliain ata´ romhainn ce´anna agus nı´os mo´ a dhe´anamh sa bhaile. na´ ceist foilsitheoireachta sa Ghaeilge. Nı´l aon 1691 Irish Language: 23 March 2005. Statements 1692

[E´ amon O´ Cuı´v.] Thabharfaı´ blas den me´id a bhı´ le ra´.Ta´imse amhras ach go bhfuil lı´on agus caighdean na cinnte da´ mbeadh a leithe´id de chla´r ann uair sa leabhar ata´ a´ bhfoilsiu´ ag feabhsu´ le blianta. Nı´l tseachtain ar an teilifı´s, agus da´ mba rud e´ go no´ s leitheoireachta na Gaeilge, a´fach, chomh raibh o´ ra´idı´ i nGaeilge ag fa´il tu´ sa´ite ar o´ ra´idı´ i tre´an agus ar mhaith liom. Ta´ bord nua Bord na mBe´arla ar a leithe´id de chla´r mar a fhaigheann Leabhar Gaeilge ceaptha agam agus tre´aslaı´m na ho´ ra´idı´ i mBe´arla tu´ sa´ite ar na ho´ ra´idı´ i saothar an seanbhoird. Ta´ dream nua ann anois i nGaeilge i la´thair na huaire ar “Today in the mbun a chu´ ram. Chas me´ leis agus rinne me´ Oireachtas”, thiocfadh me´adu´ as cuimse ar u´ sa´id soile´ir gur theastaigh uaim na´ go n-e´ireodh se´ na Gaeilge sa Teach seo. Tar e´is na Fe´ile Pa´draig, gna´thleitheoireacht a chur ar fa´il a bheadh molaim e´ sin mar ghnı´omh don bhliain seo. Nı´ he´ tarraingteach don phobal agus go nde´anfaimis an che´ad uair da´ bhfuilim a´ mholadh sin, ach da´ iarracht mho´ r margaı´ocht a dhe´anamh ar nde´anfaı´ an rud beag sin amha´in, thiocfadh muid leitheoireacht na Gaeilge. Ba bhrea´ an rud e´ da´ ar ais anseo ar a laghad ag caint 5% no´ 10% as dtiocfadh duine ag an aerfort ar chu´ pla leabhar Gaeilge i dTithe an Oireachtais, agus b’fhe´idir, nı´ eadroma Gaeilge ar no´ s leabhair Be´arla, nach rud ba mho´ . Nach iontach an dul chun cinn du´ inne don chu´ lsheomra de na siopaı´ speisialto´ ireachta sa Teach da´ mbeadh a leithe´id d’fheabhas ann in iad agus go bhfeicfı´ leabhair as Gaeilge agus speis imeacht bliana? sa phobal iontu. Gabhaim buı´ochas leis an Cheann Comhairle Ta´ Foras na Gaeilge ag treabhadh leis. Ta´ a as ucht an deis cainte agus ta´ su´ il agam go la´ncu´ isigh a´irithe ann de bharr na teipe ar an mbeimid in ann tuairisciu´ ag an am seo arı´sgo bhFeidhmeannas o´ Thuaidh ach taobh istigh dena bhfuil an oiread ce´anna dul chun cinn de´anta agus cu´ insı´ ata´ ann, ta´ obair mho´ r ar bun ag an a rinneadh le cu´ pla bliain anuas. bhforas. Ta´ pianta fa´is ann ar ndo´ igh ach feicfear go bhfuil cur chuige maith ag an bhforas agus ma Mr. McGinley: Ta´ lu´ cha´ir orm an deis seo a bheimid beaga´inı´n foighideach, feicfimid go bheith agam cu´ pla focal a ra´ maidir leis an mhe´id dtiocfar ar reiteach ar na fadhbanna ata´ ann le a bhı´ le ra´ ag an Aire agus mo thuairimı´ fe´in. cu´ pla mı´ anuas. Ta´ a fhios agam go bhfuil Is do´ cha gur o´ ca´id bhliantu´ il e´ seo anois nuair a caidreamh nua-bhunaithe idir an foras agus na thagann an tAire agus Teachtaı´ cosu´ il liom fe´in heagraı´ochtaı´ Gaeilge, agus is tuar do´ chais don isteach anseo sa Da´il agus go mbı´onn deis againn am ata´ le teacht e´ sin. dearcadh siar ar cad a tharla maidir le ceist na An rud deiridh ar mhaith liom a lua na´ ceist na Gaeilge agus na Gaeltachtaı´ le bliain anuas, agus Gaeilge sa Teach seo. Luaigh an Coimisine´ir nach ag breathnu´ ar aghaidh amach romhainn sa mbı´onn ach 1% den dı´ospo´ ireacht sa Teach seo bhliain ata´ le teacht. Is rud maith e´. as Gaeilge, agus glacaim leis gur fadhb e´ sin. Ma´ B’fhe´idir, ar an la´mh eile, go le´irı´onn se´ an ta´ muid maca´nta faoin cheist seo, ta´ cu´ iseanna pointe a bhı´ a´ dhe´anamh ag an Aire nach ann gur mar sin ata´ se´.Ta´ se´ scannalach agus is labhraı´tear an Ghaeilge sa Da´il no´ san Oireachtas ceann de na fa´thanna e´ nach bhfuil daoine sa´sta ach 1% den am. B’shin an pointe a rinne an Gaeilge a u´ sa´id sa Teach seo na´ go bhfuil a fhios Coimisine´ir Teanga ina thuairisc — an che´ad acu nach nde´anfar tuairisciu´ ar rud ar bith a cheann da´r cuireadh ar fa´il — an tseachtain seo deirtear i nGaeilge sa Teach seo sna mo´ rmhea´in caite. B’fhe´idir go mbeadh u´ sa´id na Gaeilge nı´ ba Bhe´arla, fiu´ ma´ bhı´onn aistriu´ cha´narfa´il. leithne, nuair a bhı´onn muid ag ple´ le Roinn an Nuair a bhı´ an tAcht Teangacha Oifigiu´ la ag Aire no´ ar la´ mar seo, da´ bhfe´adfaı´ ı´ au´ sa´id ar dul trı´danDa´il, o´ AgoZ,nı´ raibh focal ariamh o´ ca´idı´ eile. ar “Today in the Oireachtas” faoi. Choinnigh me Chuir se´ gliondar orm cu´ pla seachtain o´ shin su´ il air, agus fiu´ go rabhamar anseo gan mo´ ra´n nuair a bhı´ me´ anseo sa Chathaoir ar feadh eile ar bun i dTithı´ an Oireachtais sna laethanta tamaill. Thug an tAire Dlı´ agus Cirt, ce´anna, nı´orbh fhiu´ do na heagartho´ irı´ a Comhionannais agus Athcho´ irithe Dlı´,an bhaineann leis an gcla´r sin oiread agus focal Teachta McDowell, Bille isteach agus thug se´ a amha´in den dı´ospo´ ireacht bhrı´omhar a bhı´ ar an o´ ra´id uilig ar an Dara Ce´im o´ thu´ s go deireadh Acht a chraoladh. Ma´ chuirtear ceist ce´nfa´th as Gaeilge. Nı´l a fhios agam ar tugadh aon nach n-u´ sa´ideann daoine Gaeilge sa Teach seo, fho´ graı´ocht do´ sin ar an teilifı´sno´ sna mea´in cuirimse sı´os gur sin e´.Nı´ maith le polaiteoirı´ chumarsa´ide eile, ach ar a laghad, tha´inig an seasamh suas muna bhfuil e´inne ag e´isteacht leo. tAire isteach agus rinne se´ o´ ra´id Nı´lme´ a´ ra´ nach bhfuil sı´ ta´bhachtach, no´ an fhı´ortha´bhachtach agus shuimiu´ il sa Ghaeilge. Ba comhghleacaı´ ar mo chu´ l, ach ta´imid ag iarraidh cho´ ir do nı´os mo´ Airı´ an rud ce´anna a dhe´anamh. labhairt leis an bpobal. Ta´imid ag brath ar lucht Ta´ fhios agam go raibh na daoine ar an taobh seo na nuachta cothrom na fe´inne a thabhairt do´ ibh a raibh orthu freagraı´ a thabhairt ar an Aire an siu´ d a labhraı´onn an Ghaeilge chomh maith le la´ sin ag cuartu´ treorach agus comhairle maidir do´ ibh siud a labhraı´onn an Be´arla, agus ta´ co´ ras leis an Ghaeilge. Ta´ a fhios agam go nde´anann an aistriucha´in ar fa´il. tAire e´ fe´in a dhı´cheall i gco´ naı´.Ta´ a fhios agam Mhol me´ cheana fe´in agus molaim arı´sgo go bhfuil cumas ag go leor de na hAirı´ eile an smaoineodh TG4 ar chla´r Gaeilge leath-uaire a Ghaeilge a labhairt agus da´ dtabharfadh siad dhe´anamh a chraolfaı´ uair sa tseachtain. sampla du´ inn trı´d an teanga a u´ sa´id sa Teach Thabharfaı´ tu´ sa´ite d’o´ ra´idı´ i nGaeilge, ach chomh maith le daoine cosu´ il liom fe´in, bheadh d’fhe´adfaı´ e´ alı´onadh isteach le ho´ ra´idı´ as Be´arla. treoir ansin agus caighdea´n leagtha sı´os. 1693 Irish Language: 23 March 2005. Statements 1694

Is do´ cha an la´ inniu, agus la´ na Gaeilge sa Da´il, amach don teanga, is rud ceart e´ agus nı´lse´ gur cho´ ir tagairt a dhe´anamh do Bhall den mı´nadu´ rtha go bhfuil sin le fa´il don che´ad teanga Oireachtas ata´ imithe uainn agus a cuireadh i oifigiu´ il ata´ againn. Mar a du´ irt an tAire, a´fach, nDa´ilcheantar an Aire fe´in inniu, is e´ sin, an t- is cuma caide´ an sta´das a bhainfeas amach don iar-Sheanado´ ir agus Ball den Oireachtas, Po´ lO´ teanga san Eorap no´ in a´it ar bith eile, ta´ se´ ag Foighil. Nı´or rugadh no´ to´ gadh sa Ghaeltacht e´, brath orainn fe´in sa bhaile caide´ ta´ i nda´n don cosu´ il leis an Aire, ach chuaigh se´ siar 40 bliain o´ Ghaeilge. Ta´ se´ ag brath ar mhuintir na hE´ ireann, shin agus d’e´irigh se´ nı´os Gaelaı´ na´ muintir na ag brath orainne istigh anseo sampla a thabhairt Gaeltachta iad fe´in. Nı´lse´ ach ceart go agus ag brath ar an aos o´ g ata´ ag teacht chun cinn. bhfuileamar in ann cuimhneamh air inniu agus an Du´ irt me´ roimhe agus de´arfaidh me´ arı´se´ gur obair iontach a rinne se´ i measc na bpobal thiar comhartha do´ chais mo´ r iad na Gaelscoltacha ar ansin o´ Bhearna amach go dtı´ na hoilea´in. Ta´ a fud na tı´re. Ta´ fa´s agus forbairt ag teacht orthu fhios agam le cu´ pla la´ gur chuir an pobal thiar bliain i ndiaidh bliana. Is do´ cha gurb ı´ an fhadhb ansin an meas a bhı´ acu ar Pho´ lO´ Foighil in iu´ l. is mo´ ata´ ag tuismitheoirı´ agus muintir na tı´re Bheimis fe´in thı´os ansin inniu ach amha´in gur thit anois na´ a´it a fha´il da´ gcuid pa´istı´ sna scoltacha an dı´ospo´ ireacht seo ar la´ a shochraide. sin. Ta´ go leor Baill den Oireachtas go bhfuil a Nuair a bhı´ Po´ lO´ Foighil sa Teach eile, thug gclann ag freastal ag cola´istı´ mar sin. Nuair a se´ sampla chomh fada agus a bhain se´ leis an rachaidh siad frı´dancho´ ras bhunscolaı´ochta, is Ghaeilge san Oireachtas. Sı´lim gur dhiu´ ltaigh se´ cinnte go mbeidh an Ghaeilge foghlamtha acu i focal Be´arla a labhairt ansin agus go ndearna se´ ngannfhios acu agus go mbeidh sı´ ar a dtoil acu a chuid cainteanna agus o´ ra´idı´ go le´ir i nGaeilge. ar fud a saol. Chuir se´ bru´ ar na hu´ dara´is i bhfeighil an Tı´ — Ta´ deacrachtaı´ ann, a´fach, sa Ghaeltacht fiu´ . agus d’e´irigh leis — an co´ ras aistriu´ cha´n Nuair a bhı´ me´ i mbunscoil ansin, ba e´ an comhuaineach ata´ sa Da´il leis na blianta a gna´ththeanga ag na daltaı´ uilig, istigh agus thabhairt isteach sa Teach eile chomh maith. Ar amuigh, an Ghaeilge. Ma´ ta´ duine as an cheantar a laghad, beidh se´ sin mar leac cuimhneacha´in air Gaeltachta anois, go minic bı´onn an Be´arla le anseo san Oireachtas — go nde´ana Dia tro´ caire cloistea´il i gclos na scoile. Nı´l locht ar na ar a anam — agus ba mhaith liom mo mu´ inteoirı´ no´ ar na daltaı´,ta´ an locht ar an chomhbhro´ n a chur in iu´ lda´ bhean che´ile, cho´ ras. Ta´ na mea´in agus an teilifı´s ag teacht Chrissie, agus da´ theaghlach uilig. Is boichte muid isteach agus go bhfuil bru´ an Bhe´arla ag teacht da´ imeacht. isteach. Na pleananna ata´ ag an Aire le tabhairt Rinne an tAire tagairt eile. Agus me´ ag faoi seo agus be´im a chur ar na daoine o´ ga agus e´isteacht leis, shı´lme´ go raibh comharthaı´ do´ chais an teanga, sin an do´ igh len e´ a dhe´anamh. Bı´m agus e´ado´ chais ann chomh fada agus a bhaineann ag caint go rialta le mu´ inteoirı´ na Gaeltachta agus se´ le staid na Gaeilge i la´thair na huaire. Ina ta´ deacrachtaı´ acu go fo´ ill. Thagair an tAire go o´ ra´id, thagair an tAire do na rudaı´ ata´ de´anta le bhfuil deacrachtaı´ maidir le foilseoireacht. Ta´ cu´ pla bliain anuas, mar shampla, an tAcht teanga. deacrachtaı´ le te´acsleabhair — nı´l ach te´acs Is cinnte gur che´im mho´ r ar aghaidh e´ sin, agus amha´in le ha´bhair a dhe´anamh trı´ Ghaeilge ach thugamar go le´ir tacaı´ocht don Bhille sin nuair a ta´ re´imse de the´ascleabhair sa Bhe´arla. Nı´lse´ bhı´ se´ ag dul trı´danDa´il. Ta´ an tAcht ar na inghlactha ag an am seo go mbeadh ar leabhair anois mar dhlı´ na tı´re, agus is do´ cha gurb mhu´ inteoirı´ suigh sı´os roimh an scoil agus e´ an dualgas agus an fhreagracht ata´ orainn ag an aistriu´ cha´in a dhe´anamh do na daltaı´.Nı´ obair an bpointe seo na´ de´anamh cinnte de go gcuirfear mhu´ inteora ı´ sin, ta´ an dualgas sin ar an Roinn na moltaı´ agus na coinnı´olacha san Acht sin i no´ ar an Ghu´ mno´ foilsitheoirı´ e´igin. Ba cheart bhfeidhm. Ta´ se´ iontach ta´bhachtach. Is rud go mbeadh te´acsleabhair den chaighdean agus amha´in e´ an tAcht a bheith againn ach is rud eile e´agsu´ lacht ce´anna le fa´il sa cho´ ras oideachas e´ an tAcht sin a chur i bhfeidhm. Ta´ an cu´ ram sin Gaelach agus ata´ ar fa´il sa cho´ ras trı´ Bhe´arla. ar an Aire agus a Roinn. Cu´ pla bliain o´ shin, bhı´ sin ar intinn ag an Ta´ comharthaı´ le feicea´il cheana fe´in. Nuair a Roinn Oideachais agus Eolaı´ochta fe´in acadamh chuirtear tuairiscı´ amach o´ na Ranna agus na a oscailt i nda´ilcheantar an Theachta Uı´ comhlachtaı´ Sta´it, bı´onn siad da´theangach, agus Mhuineacha´in i mBaile Bhuirne agus go mbeadh is ce´im mho´ r ar aghaidh e´ sin. Ta´ an cu´ ram air foilsitheoireacht agus dlu´ thdhiosca agus chomharthaı´ocht a´ feabhsu´ ar fud na tı´re agus ar a´bhair a chur ar fa´il a chuideodh go mo´ rle fud na Gaeltachta, agus nı´lse´ ach cu´ pla seachtain hoideachas trı´ Ghaeilge. Nı´l a fhios agam caide´ o´ bhı´ an tAire thuas linn fe´in. Ta´ siad ag cur na ata´ ag dul ar aghaidh no´ an bhfuil se´ ar intinn ag leaganacha cruinn ceart i bhfeidhm. Sin iad na an Rialtas dhul ar aghaidh leis. De´anaim tagairt leaganacha oifigiu´ la a bheas le feicea´il againn as ar sin mar gur chaith me´ fe´in tre´imhse ansin mar seo amach. mhac le´inn agus ta´ foirgneamh brea´ ann i Is dul chun cinn e´ Acht na dTeangacha gceantar Gaeltachta stairiu´ il agus ta´ an Ghaeilge Oifigiu´ la. Bhı´ an feachtas ag dul ar aghaidh le brı´omhar beo ansin. Thabharfadh se´ tacaı´ochta bliain no´ dho´ sta´das oifigiu´ il a bhaint amach don agus seasamh don teanga da´ mbeadh an t- teanga san Eorap. Ta´ lu´ cha´ir orm sa deireadh institiu´ d ag feidhmiu´ ansin mar a bhı´ beartaithe thiar thall go bhfuil an Rialtas ag glacadh cu´ ram cu´ pla bliain o´ shin. an fheachtais sin air agus ag dul ar aghaidh ag Is rud nadu´ rtha e´ go mbeadh se´ i gceantar leibhe´al na hEorpa. Ma´ e´irı´onn an sta´das a bhaint Gaeltachta. I gceantar s’againne cu´ pla seachtain 1695 Irish Language: 23 March 2005. Statements 1696

[Mr. McGinley.] b’iontach an obair a chuir sin ar fa´il. o´ shin, bhı´ an tAire thuas agus anois ta´ siad ag Leitheoireacht iontach simplı´ a bhı´ sna leabhair, obair ar An Charraig ar an tionscnamh Gaeilge ru´ ndiamhair agus bleachtaireacht, agus bhı´ se´ seo. Beidh seacht bpost ansin in a´ras nua agus chomh maith agus chomh suimiu´ il le rud ar bith beidh daoine ag obair tre´ mhea´n na Gaeilge ar a bhı´ le fa´il i dteanga ar bith eile. Bhı´ como´ rtas rudaı´ a bhaineann leis an teanga. Nuair a ann nuair a tha´inig an leabhar is de´anaı´ Rex fheicfidh daoine eile go bhfuil fostaı´ocht mar sin Carlo amach ce´ an che´ad duine a bhı´ an leabhar ar fa´il, beidh se´ mar spriocadh do´ ibh dhul ar sin le´ite aige no´ aici. Tharla sin cu´ pla sco´ r bliain aghaidh leis. o´ shin ach nı´l a fhios agam caide´ a tharla dona Rinne an tAire tagairt dona mea´in cumarsa´ide leabhair sin agus nı´l a fhios agam an mbeadh suim agus Raidio´ na Gaeltachta. Ta´ obair mho´ rde´anta ag aos o´ g an lae inniu iontu. Nı´ raibh an teilifı´s aige, ta´ se´ ag craoladh 24 uair sa la´.Isdo´ cha go ag an am sin ach is cinnte gur chuir se´ bhfuil malairt tuairimı´ochta ag daoine e´agsu´ la leitheoireacht ar fa´il do ghlu´ in iomla´n daoine o´ ga fa´na lı´ricı´ Be´arla. Nı´ fheicim go bhfuil rud ar bith san am sin. contra´ilte leis. Ta´ muid ag de´anamh an Thagair an tAire d’Fhoras na Gaeilge. Ta´ comhcheangal tre´ Ghaeilge agus ma´ bhı´onn na deacrachtaı´ ansin i la´thair na huaire. Nı´l a fhios lı´ricı´ i mBe´arla, caithfimid glacadh leis — sin an agam an mbaineann sin le deacrachtaı´ ceol an t-aos o´ g ag iarraidh e´isteacht leis agus ma´ polaitı´ochta o´ Thuaidh. Bhı´ se´ sna mea´in ansin cothaı´onn se´ lucht e´isteachta i measc an aosa o´ ig agus ta´ su´ il agam go n-e´ireodh leis an fhoras na o´ 9 p.m. san o´ iche go dtı´ 1 a.m., is rud maith e´ deacrachtaı´ sin a reiteach agus go rachaidh se´ ar sin. Bhı´ me´ fe´in mar bhall na blianta o´ shin de aghaidh ag comhoibiriu´ leis na heagraı´ochtaı´ chomhairle Raidio´ na Gaeltachta agus tha´inig an deonacha a bhfuil an oiread sin de´anta acu, cosu´ il cheist sin anı´os. Ce´ go raibh intinn oscailte agam le Conradh na Gaeilge agus Gael Linn. Cuireann fe´in san am, bhı´ an comhairle ag an am sin go se´ lu´ cha´ir orm go bhfuil Gael Linn ag cur amach huile agus go hiomla´ninae´adan. Ta´ an saol ag na seanamhra´in agus ce´irnı´nı´ a rinne se´ agus go athru´ ,a´fach, agus ba mhaith liom rath a ghuı´ ar bhfuil deis againn iad a fha´il ar dioscaı´ anois. an tseirbhı´su´ r. Ta´ su´ il agam go n-e´ireoidh go Cuireann sin uilig — an ceol, an leitheoireacht, maith leis agus go meallfaidh se´ lucht e´isteachta i an teilifı´s, an raidı´o—lesta´das na Gaeilge. measc an aosa o´ ig agus iad ag e´isteacht lena a Ta´ dul chun cinn a´irithe de´anta ach ta´ chuid achainı´ ag teacht amach i nGaeilge, ma´ ta´ deacrachtaı´ go fo´ ill, go speisialta mar a le´irigh an na lı´ricı´ i mBe´arla, ta´ sin pa´irt da´r saol. coimisine´ir. Sa che´ad tuarasca´il a chuir se´ amach, Faoin teilifı´s, le´im an rud a bhı´onn le ra´ ag na bhı´ se´ sa´sta na deacrachtaı´ a chı´onn se´ ale´iriu´ le´irmheasto´ irı´ sna nuachta´in gach deireadh agus aird a thabhairt orthu agus a´r n-aigne a seachtaine. Cuireann se´ lu´ cha´ir orm go bpioctar dhı´riu´ orthu. Du´ irt se´ go bhfuil ge´ar-gha´ le amach go han-mhinic cla´racha TG4 agus moladh hathbreithniu´ cuimsitheach fuarchu´ iseach ar gach a thabhairt do´ .Le´irı´onn se´ an tsamhlaı´ocht ata´ ag gne´ d’fhoghlaim agus de mhu´ ineadh na Gaeilge na daoine o´ ga i mbun an staisiu´ in sin. Ta´ nı´os mo´ sa cho´ ras oideachais. Idir seo agus an bhliain seo de´anta acu arda´n a thabhairt don Ghaeilge na´ chugainn, ma´ thugaimid aghaidh ar an phointe sin cuid mho´ r a tharla le fada anuas. agus ar na deacrachtaı´ sa cho´ ras oideachais a Aontaı´m leis an Aire, a´fach, go mbeadh se´ go reiteach, ce´ acu caillı´ochta na mu´ inteoirı´ no´ a maith da´ mbeadh cla´r air a thabharfadh le´argas gcumas i nGaeilge, no´ te´acsleabhair, beidh sa´r- ar cad a bhı´onn ag dul ar aghaidh istigh anseo san obair de´anta againn. Nı´lse´ inglactha go bhfuil Oireachtas o´ thaobh na Gaeilge de. Da´ mbeadh daltaı´ a´balta 12 bliain a chaitheamh ag dul frı´dan cla´r den sort sin, ba leor ceathru´ uaire, nı´ bheadh cho´ ras oideachais agus nach fe´idir leo comhra´ a se´ i bhfad go dtı´ go mbeadh nı´os mo´ na´ 1% den dhe´anamh i ndiaidh an ama sin. Caithfidh an me´id a deirtear istigh anseo trı´ Gaeilge. Cuireann tAire a admha´il go bhfuil lu´ barla´re´igin sa sce´al. se´ iontas orm na daoine a bhı´onn ag amharc ar Ta´ saineolaithe agus mo´ dhanna nua TG4, daoine a shı´lfinn nach mbeadh focal teangeolaı´ochta ag ra´ go bhfuil iomarca be´im ar Gaeilge acu. Castar daoine orm taobh amuigh scrı´obh no´ ar le´amh agus go bhfoghlamaı´onn an den Ghaeltacht ag ra´ gur chonaic siad ar teilifı´s pa´iste an teanga a labhairt sula bhfoghlaimaı´onn me´ agus a leithe´id. Rud ar bith a bhaineann le se´ a scrı´obh no´ le´amh. polaitı´ocht no´ leis an saol poiblı´,ta´ tarraingt na Sin an pointe ta´bhachtach a rinne an ndaoine air a bhfuil suim acu ansin. B’fhiu´ TG4 coimisine´ir agus idir anois agus an bliain seo breathnu´ air sin agus nı´ bheadh se´ ag iarraidh chugainn, caithfimid teacht ar reiteach air. Nuair barraı´ocht uaidh da´ mbeadh se´ sa´sta ceathru´ a bheas daltaı´ in ann an teanga a labhairt go uaire sa tseachtain a chur ar fa´il imeachtaı´ an measartha lı´ofa i ndiaidh a chuid ama sa cho´ ras Oireachtais le be´im ar an me´id ata´ ra´ite trı´ oideachais, beidh e´irithe linn. Nı´l sin ag tarlu´ Ghaeilge. Spreagfadh sin sinn uilig labhairt sa anois agus is do´ char e´ don teanga agus do teanga nı´os minice. ghluaiseacht na Gaeilge. Nuair a bhı´ me´ o´ g, bhı´ an t-uafa´s go deo acu le le´amh ar no´ s Reics Carlo san Eigipt le Cathal Mr. O’Shea: Beidh an chuid is mo´ den o´ ra´id O´ Sandair. seo as Be´arla. Teastaı´onn uaim teachtaireacht a Bhı´ como´ rtas uair amha´in sa chola´iste agus chur amach faoin nGaeilge agus ta´ seans nı´os iarradh orainn sce´al a scrı´obh cosu´ il le sraith fearr agam an teachtaireacht sin a chur os Reics Carlo. Bhı´ muid uilig ag scrı´obh agus comhair an phobail ma´ labhraim as Be´arla. Ta´ an 1697 Irish Language: 23 March 2005. Statements 1698 teachtaireacht sin simplı´ — is le gach saora´nach In volume 11 of the 2002 census, which deals an Ghaeilge ar chomhche´im. Ta´ se´ ta´bhachtach with the Irish language, page 68, table 33 deals go dtuigeann gach e´inne sin agus go dtuigeann with Irish speakers aged three years and over, siad gur rud taitneamheach ı´ ma´ chuirtear chuige classified by frequency of speaking, age group sin ar an mo´ dh ceart. and sex. Accordingly, I have made the following Ta´ an Ghaeilge timpeall orainn. Ta´ na calculations: in the three to four year age group, logainmneacha againn agus astu siu´ d tagann eolas 2.6% never use Irish; in the four to nine age ar stair a´itiu´ il chomh maith le leathnu´ foclo´ ra. Ta´ group, 3.1% never use Irish; in the ten to 14 age cuid mhaith focal Gaeilge a u´ sa´idtear sa group, 6.5% never use Irish; in the 15 to 19 age ghna´thchaint i mBe´arla. Ta´ seanfhocail againn group, 19.4% never use Irish; in the 20 to 24 age agus cosu´ il leis na seanfhocail sa Book of group, 43% never use Irish; in the 25 to 34 age Proverbs sa mbı´obla, ta´ crı´onnacht ag baint leo, group, 46% never use Irish; in the 35 to 44 age crı´onnacht e´agsu´ lo´ chrı´onnacht aon tı´r eile ar an group, 39% never use Irish; in the 45 to 64 age domhain, sin crı´onnacht na nGael. group, 35% never use Irish; in the 55 to 64 age The Irish language is an endangered language. group, 32% never use Irish; and in the 65 and The only languages in Europe that are generally over age group, 32% never use Irish. known to be in danger of disappearing are the There is a clear pattern here. Non-use of Irish Celtic languages of Britain and Ireland, such as among the 15 to 19 years group is 19.4% but there Scottish Gaelic, Irish Gaelic and Welsh. Manx is is a dramatic increase among the 20 to 24 years already extinct and Cornish died out at the end group. That pattern continues in the 25 to 34 of the 18th century but was artificially revived years group whereas there is a reduction in the and now has a number of speakers. number of people aged between 35 and 65 who This information is contained in the UNESCO never use Irish. Nonetheless the 32% of 65s and Atlas of the World’s Languages in Danger of Dis- over who never use the Irish language is greater appearing, second edition, revised, enlarged and than the 19.4% that never use the Irish language updated, and published in 2001. According to the in the 15 to 19 years group. Ability to speak Irish author’s estimate, about 6,000 languages are is higher among females at 45.9% than males at spoken in the world today. Some 3,000 or more 39.7%. of these languages are, at least, endangered. The The Minister for Education and Science Atlas states: recently stated: “It is an accepted tenet of linguis- It is important to know that a language which tic research that a language will struggle where a is in danger of disappearing can still be saved, society does not create an environment for its provided that an appropriate language policy is active everyday use.” However, in his inaugural adopted: the case of Hebrew is a good example report for 2004, the language commissioner of the revival of a language that ceased to be a states: “I firmly believe that teachers should not living language thousands of years ago. carry all the blame for the absence of fluency in There are, however, important aspects to the the language on the part of so many people who revival of Hebrew that do not apply to the Irish have come through the educational system.” The language. The first is that the Hebrew people commissioner is well aware that of the occu- throughout the world retained a knowledge of the pational groups with the highest ability to speak written Hebrew and when, eventually, the State Irish, teachers came out on top at 79.3%. of Israel was set up people came to settle there The inaugural report of the language com- from all over the world. There was a need for a missioner was presented to the Minister for Com- language for these people to communicate with munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs on 22 one another and the fact that down through the February 2005. On Friday, 4 March 2005 the generations a knowledge of the written Hebrew Minister was reported as blaming poor levels of had been retained made it rational for Hebrew to Irish among teachers as one of the main reasons become the language of Israel. for a shortage of workers competent in the Irish Irish people, on the other hand, do not have language. He said the standard of Irish among the same widespread ability to read the language, teachers needed to be looked at to help address nor is there any great communications imperative the problem. He also stated that although there that would make it the preferred language in the is a combination of factors behind poor levels of same sense as Hebrew was the preferred langu- Irish, teacher training is a major element. He age for the people of the new state of Israel. added: There are five categories that indicate the One of the major problems is the large degree of endangerment to the language. These number of teachers particularly those qualified are potentially endangered languages, where in recent years who don’t have a competency decreasing numbers of children learn the langu- in the language. We are getting a poor return age; endangered languages, where the youngest for our investment of time and money in terms speakers are young adults; seriously endangered of learning Irish. languages, where the youngest speakers have reached or passed middle age; moribund langu- I invite the commissioner and the Minister to ages, where only a few elderly speakers are left; focus on the statistics that in the 15 to 19 years and extinct languages, where no speakers are left. group 19.4% never use Irish, in the 20 to 24 years 1699 Irish Language: 23 March 2005. Statements 1700

[Mr. O’Shea.] Many proverbs or seanfhochail are in everyday group 43% never use Irish and in the 25 to 34 use, for example, nı´ bhı´onn in aon rud ach seal; years group 46% never use Irish. is fearr an tsla´inte na ta´inte; sceitheann meisce Both the Minister and the commissioner would mı´ru´ is glasa iad na cnoic i bhfad uainn; nuair a be well served to examine the environment of the bhı´onn an cat amuigh bı´onn an luch ag rince; and Irish language, which is, at best, unsupportive is binn be´al ina thost. Seanfhochail contain the and, at worst, quite hostile, rather than lunging wisdom of the Irish race as well as serving to into the blame game and singling out teachers for expand our vocabulary. The basic lesson of this is special mention. They have commenced the that learning Irish can be a great, enriching joy. blame game. They realise that the State has not Negativity, like the blame game, is anathema to succeeded in reviving the Irish language, despite this. This is an essential truth which is, all too massive investment. A group must be to blame often, overlooked. and teachers present an easy target. This is, at We have reached an important juncture in the very least, a sloppy, shallow and disingenuous regard to the Irish language but we are losing the analysis, not to mention the patronising tone. battle. I refer to the well known seanfhocal, “Nı´ However, I agree with one statement made by neart go cur le che´ile — unity is strength.” This the language commissioner in his report, but he is not a time for divisiveness, nor is it a time for does not go far enough. He states that a public the blame game. The people are co-owners of the debate on this important aspect of Irish life is national treasure that is the Irish language, yet essential. He alludes to what changes for the not everybody appreciates this. The language better can be made in the education system, should be shared and enjoyed and those of us which will ensure competency in the language in who appreciate it should go out of our way to return for the substantial State investment in this communicate this to others in a positive way. We area of education. The commissioner reckons this allow a situation to arise by which a minority can investment is as much as \500 million annually. monopolise the debate by insisting on abstract He also states the Irish language does not belong rights relating to the Irish language, which are exclusively to any one section of the people but trivial in the overall scheme of things and will to everyone. only alienate others. This is correct and goes in the right direction The UNESCO atlas states that the Irish langu- but the debate should not be confined to the edu- age is endangered. It is not too late to save it. A cation system solely. This is to miss the entire spirit of generosity is called for and we must not point. The Ianguage belongs to all the people but fail in that. too few of them see it that way. Elitism and Nuair a bhı´ an Teachta McGinley ag caint, fanaticism have not helped the cause of the rinne se´ comhbhro´ n le clann an iar-Sheanado´ ir, revival of the language. There is an urgent need Po´ lO´ Foighil. Ba mhaith liom chomhbhro´ na for a full and frank national debate free from dhe´anamh freisin. Is cuimhin liom nuair a tha´inig intimidation and elitism so that people can with- me´ anseo don che´ad uair, bhı´ choiste ann don out fear express their views on and attitude to the Ghaeilge, agus bhı´ Po´ l ina baill de. Fear ann fe´in Irish language. Many people are antagonistic to ab ea e´. Bhı´ a chroı´ sa´ite sa Ghaeilge agus sa the Irish language. They should be made to feel Ghaeltacht. Go nde´anfaı´ Dia tro´ caire ar a anam that in this democratic society, they should be dı´lis. able to express their opinions on the Irish langu- Ce´ go bhfuil an Gaeilge i gcontu´ irt, ta´ leigheas age or any other subject without accusations of ar an sce´al. Ta´ se´ nı´os furasta daoine a mhealladh being west Britons or not being truly Nationalist. na´ iallach a chur ar daoine. Ma´s rud e´ go mbı´onn Such a debate is not only desirable but essential gluaiseacht na Gaeilge ro´ -theibı´, chasfaidh daoine to cultivate the sense of ownership of the Irish sa treo eile. Casfaimid daoine a mhealladh trı´ language which will develop a proactive mindset le´iriu´ do´ ibh stair aitiu´ il, mar shampla. Ta´ se´ towards the Irish language. The Irish language furasta aistriu´ a dhe´anamh ar an Tra´ Mho´ rimo revival movement has absolutely nothing to fear cheantar fe´in, mar shampla. Mar an gce´anna le from such a debate but its absence will contribute Dunmore East, Du´ nMo´ r, agus Port La´irge. Ta´ to further decline. Many positives relating to the logainmneacha mar sin ar fud na tı´re. Sampla eile language can be missed, not least the number of is ea Baile A´ tha Cliath, the town of the ford of Irish words that are used in spoken English. the hurdles, no´ Dublin agus Dubh Linn. Boreen, sceach, abu, amadan, ciotog, camogie, Ta´ an Ghaeilge agus stair na Gael timpeall fado, plus, smithereens, uisce beatha, spring read- orainn. Nı´ lagaimid i gconaı´ an be´im cheart ar sin. ily to mind. There are many others and, Ta´ obair mhaith de´anta ag lucht teilifı´se, ag TG4 interestingly, many Irish words are used in agus RTE, chun an saibhris seo a chur os comhair spoken English in Newfoundland, for example, na daoine. Ta´ lige san Acht teanga, mar a du´ irt shebeen, sleaveen, gamogue, tayscaun, galore, me´ go minic sa dı´ospo´ ireacht ar an Bhille sin, se´ piseog. I refer to place names, which are all sin go bhfuil se´ mar cheart ag daoine dul os around us, such as ath, baile, cill, cluain, dun, eag- comhair na cu´ irte ma´s rud e´ nach bhfuil siad sa´sta lais, fear, gleann, inis, lios, maigh, moin, paroiste, le cinneadh e´igin den Choimisine´ir Teanga. Ta´ rath. Not alone do these words enhance our su´ il agam nach dtarlaı´odh a leithe´id. Ta´ siu´ l agam vocabulary but these place names contain much nach mbeidh daoine ag iarraidh cearta nach history. bhfuil aon ciall ag baint leo agus nach nde´anfaidh 1701 Irish Language: 23 March 2005. Statements 1702 aon mhaitheas do´ ibh siu´ dna´ don Ghaeilge. Glacann a´iteanna eile sa cheantar pa´irt sa fe´ile, Caithfear sin a sheachaint. mar shampla, An Chorra´n, Acaill Mho´ r, Cliara Ta´ an Gaeilge taitneamhnach. Trı´dan agus Inis Bigil. Glacann siad go le´ir pa´irt i seoladh Ghaeilge is fe´idir daoine a oiliu´ nt i stair na tı´re, na yawl. Is seans e´ chun an Ghaeilge a labhairt. oidhreacht na nGael agus ar an slı´ inar tha´inig an Is mo´ r an trua agus an na´ire nach mbı´onn seans teanga anı´os chugainn. ag daoine an Ghaeilge a labhairt. Da´ mbeadh an seans sin ag daoine, chuirfeadh se´ nı´os mo´ be´ime Dr. Cowley: Ta´ a´thas orm caint mar gheall ar ar an teanga agus bheadh nı´os mo´ seans ag an Ghaeilge. Ta´ se´ an ta´bhachtach don tı´r teanga daoine cleachtadh a fha´il agus bheith nı´os fearr a bheith againn. Ar feadh na mblianta bhı´ ar na ag labhairt na teangan. daoine troid chun an Ghaeilge a shabha´il, agus ta´ Ta´im an-bhuı´och as ucht obair U´ dara´sna eolas againn faoin tally stick a bhı´ a´ usa´id sna Gaeltachta a thugann an-tacaı´ocht do dreamanna blianta chrua. mar Cumann Ba´do´ irı´ Acla agus Cruinniu´ Ba´do´ irı´ Acla. Ta´ se´ an-ta´bhachtach go bhfaigheann siad An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: An bhfuil tu´ ag an tacaı´ocht sin. Tuigeann an t-u´ dara´s go bhfuil roinnt do chuid ama? a´r gcultu´ r ceangailte leis an teanga. Ta´imid an- bhuı´och as U´ dara´s na Gaeltachta. Nuair a bhı´onn Dr. Cowley: Nı´l. Ta´ cultu´ ir an saibhir againn. na daoine go le´ir ag seoladh na mba´danna, bı´onn Is rud na´ireach e´ go raibh an Ghaeilge mar siad ag iarraidh an Ghaeilge a chuir chun cinn colcheathar bocht uair amha´in. Inniu ta´ athru´ agus baineann siad taitneamh as freisin. taghta ar an sce´al, ta´ suim arı´s sa Gaeilge agus ta´ Deirtear go bhfuil 1.6 milliu´ in daoine in ann an daoine ag iarraidh ı´ a chaint i gconaı´, rud ata´ an Ghaeilge a labhairt. Tuigim go bhfuil se´ sin mar ta´bhachtach agus iontach. ata´ se´.Ta´ daoine ag foghlaim na Gaeilge. Ta´ a Ta´ an sluaite ag le´amh nuachta´in mar Foinse la´n ghaelscoileanna ann nach raibh ann roimhe agus Inniu. Is sta´isiu´ n iontach e´ Raidio´ na seo. Ta´ ala´n suime ag pa´istı´ agus daoine o´ ga sa Gaeltachta a craolaı´onn cla´racha an deas. Ple´tear teanga a bhfuil a´ fhoghlaim acu. Ta´ se´ sin an- gach cheist ar an raidio´ . Freisin, tha´inig athru´ mo´ r ta´bhachtach ar fad. An mbeadh an suim ce´anna ar an sce´al le TG4. Bı´onn na cla´racha uilig, an acu muna mbeadh scru´ du´ le dhe´anamh acu sa nuacht agus re´amhfha´isne´is na haimsire go brea´. Ghaeilge? Ta´ se´ de dhualgas ag duine scru´ du´ a Baintear usa´id as subtitles, agus ta´ seans ag gach dhe´anamh sa Ghaeilge. Ta´ dı´ospo´ ireacht ar siu´ l duine na cla´racha a thuiscint. mar gheall ar an tuairim go mbeadh an Ghaeilge Ta´ suim nua ag daoine o´ ga sa Ghaeilge agus sa nı´os la´idre gan an scru´ du´ . B’fhe´idir nach mbeadh chultu´ ir. Nuair a bhı´onn suim ag daoine sa se´ nı´os la´idre, ach b’fhe´idir freisin go mbeadh chultu´ ir, bı´onn suim acu sa teanga. Ta´ se´ nı´os mo´ gra´ ag daoine don teanga muna raibh ta´bhachtach go mbeadh an teanga nı´os la´idre scru´ du´ Ghaeilge sna scoileanna. agus nı´os mo´ daoine ag baint u´ sa´id as an Gaeilge. Nı´ mo´ r don Rialtas gach cabhair agus tacaı´ocht Bhı´ me´ ag caint cu´ pla la´ o´ shin le Ma´irtı´n a thabhairt don Ghaeilge. Nı´ mo´ rdo´ tacaı´ocht a Daibhı´, fear iontach a bhfuil ar aithne agam. Ta´ thabhairt do gach duine a bhfuil ag iarraidh an se´ ag obair do Raidio´ na Gaeltachta. Bhı´ se´ i Mulranny agus bhı´ an oı´che againn san osta´n nua teanga a labhairt, ma´ ta´ se´ no´ sı´ sa Ghaeltacht ansin. Du´ irt se´ liom go bhfuil athru´ tagtha ar an no´ nach bhfuil. Ta´ se´ an-ta´bhachtach go mbeadh sce´al. Bhuail me´ le Ma´irtı´n don che´ad uair nuair cabhair ar fa´il i ngach a´it ina bhfuil foghlaimeoirı´. a bhı´ se´ ag obair leis an Ollamh O´ Bhrollacha´in Nı´ mo´ rdo´ n Rialtas leanu´ leis an tacaı´ocht sin. Is in Ollscoil na Gaillimhe. Du´ irt se´ gur fe´idir le rud an-ta´bhachtach e´ du´ inn go bhfuil teanga an- Raidio´ na Gaeltachta cu´ pla focal Be´arla a u´ sa´id saibhir againn. Nı´ mo´ rdu´ inn e´ a mhe´adu´ .Nı´ mo´ r anois. Ta´ gasu´ r agam a bhfuil pa´irteach i rock don Rialtas an tacaı´ocht ce´anna a thabhairt do band a mbı´onn ag seinnt ar fud na Gaeltachta. Is dhaoine ata´ ina gco´ naı´ sa Ghaeltacht. B’fhe´idir rud iontach e´ do na buachaillı´ o´ ga. Nı´ bheadh an gur cheart du´ inn na Gaeltachtaı´ a mhe´adu´ . seans acu sin a dhe´anamh gan cu´ pla focal Be´arla Is trua e´ nach bhfuil nı´os mo´ Gaeilge a´ labhairt au´ sa´id. sa Da´il. Deirtear nach bhfuil ach 1% dos na Is iontach an rud e´ go bhfuil seans ag daoine dı´ospo´ ireachtaı´ sa Teach trı´ mhea´n na Gaeilge. an Ghaeilge a labhairt, agus go bhfuil seans acu B’fhe´idir go mbeadh nı´os mo´ cleachtadh ag a bheith pa´irteach sa chultu´ ir ata´ againn. Ar Teachtaı´ agus go labhraidı´snı´os mo´ Ghaeilge da´ feadh na blianta fada do dhein Conradh an mbeadh nı´os mo´ be´im ar an teanga sa Teach. Ba Gaeilge, mar shampla, iarracht mho´ r ar son an cheart go mbeadh nı´os mo´ seans againn an teanga. Ta´ fa´inne nua ar fa´il. Ghaeilge a labhairt. Ta´ seans-mhaith againn inniu Ta´ fe´ile mho´ r againn in Acla, is e´ sin Cruinniu´ chun an Ghaeilge a labhairt sa Da´il agus is rud Ba´do´ irı´ Acla agus ta´ cumann ann a chuireann an iontach e´ sin. Ta´ suim mo´ r ag daoine sean agus chruinniu´ ar fa´il. Ta´ me´ i mo chathaoirleach ar na aosta sa Ghaeilge. fe´ile. Is fe´ile an-ta´bhachtach e´ don a´it. Tagann Ba mhaith liom rud a ra´ faoi Po´ lO´ Foighil, go gach duine san a´it le che´ile agus baineann siad nde´ana Dia tro´ caire ar a anam dı´lis. Fear iontach taitneamh mho´ r as seoladh na yawl, na ba´id ar fad ab ea e´. Bhı´ aithne agam ar Po´ l, a fuair ba´s traidisiu´ nta. Ta´ iascaireacht an-ta´bhachtach san cu´ pla la´ o´ shin. Bhı´ se´ ag obair an-chrua ar son a´it, mar a bhfuil an seoladh. Nı´ raibh aon na daoine sa Ghaeltacht. Rinne se´ obair an- ghluaistea´in ar an oilea´n, ach bhı´ na yawl againn. mhaith ar fad ar son an phobail. 1703 Irish Language: 23 March 2005. Statements 1704

[Dr. Cowley.] gna´thscoileanna? Ta´ an caighdea´nnı´os ı´sle anois Bhı´ me´ sa Ghaeltacht, i Locha´n Beag, nuair a na´ mar a bhı´ se´ riamh sna gna´thscoileanna. Is bhı´ me´ i mo ghasu´ ro´ g. Bhı´ me´ imocho´ naı´ i deacair a ra´ ce´nfa´th go bhfuil se´ mar sin. I mo mBe´al an A´ tha ag an am, ach chuaigh me go dtı´ thuairim, ta´ na pa´istı´ agus na mu´ inteoirı´ chomh Locha´n Beag i gContae na Gaillimhe, gar le ba´u´ il agus a bhı´ siad i riamh i leith na Gaeilge ach Indreabha´n, chun an Ghaeilge a fhoglaim. Ba an bhfuil an Roinn Oideachais agus Eolaı´ochta ag mhaith liom sce´al a insint faoin am sin. Nuair a cur na be´ime cearta ar conas a mba cheart bhı´ me´ ar mo rothar la´ amha´in, agus cailı´n agam Gaeilge labhartha a mhu´ ineadh? An bhfuil an ar mo “handlebars”, bhuaileamar le Po´ lO´ iomad aimsire a chaitheamh sna bunscoileanna ag Foighil, a bhı´ ina gluaistea´in ar an mbo´ thar cur be´ime ar scrı´obh agus le´amh na Gaeilge gan che´anna. Nı´ raibh focal maith le ra´ aige mar an bhe´im ar labhairt an teanga? Ta´ suim agam i gheall ar an rud sin. Fear iontach ab ea Po´ lO´ sce´im labhairt na Gaeilge agus ta´ su´ il agam go Foighil. Bhı´ mo bhean che´ile i Locha´n Beag nuair mbeidh e´ifeacht ag an sce´im feabhsaithe i bhfad a bhı´ sı´ o´ g agus bhı´ Po´ lO´ Foighil ann freisin. nı´os luaithe i saol an pha´iste. Nı´l aon gha´ ann Du´ irt sı´ go raibh a la´n Gaeilge le foghlaim ann. nach mbeadh se´ ar chumas an ghna´thpha´iste an Nı´ raibh aon fhaitı´os ar Pho´ l an Ghaeilge a caighdean ard ce´anna a bheith aige sa Ghaeilge labhairt, mar bhı´ an Ghaeilge an teanga na´durtha agus ata´ sa Bhe´arla. Aontaı´m leis na mu´ inteoirı´ a a bhı´ aige. Nı´ raibh aon fhaitı´os air an chultu´ ir deir go bhfuil se´ deacair fiu´ Be´arla a mhu´ ineadh Ghaeilge a chur chun cinn. Is iontach ar fad e´ go do roinnt pha´istı´ agus ata´ ag cur na ceiste ansin ndearnadh se´ iarracht i gco´ naı´ an teanga a ce´nfa´th go gcaithfimid an me´id sin ama ag labhairt sa tSeanaid. B’fhe´idir nach raibh se´ in iarraidh Gaeilge a mhu´ ineadh. Is fe´idir Gaeilge a ann e´ sin a dhe´anamh, ach rinne se´ a dhı´cheall mhu´ ineadh, a´fach, go he´ifeachtach ma´ ta´ an chun an Ghaeilge a chur chun barr. tacaı´ocht ann o´ n Roinn Oideachais agus Nı´l aon amhras ach go bhfuil se´ an-ta´bhachtach Eolaı´ochta a fhaigheann an Be´arla. Ta´ an t-am ar fad go mbı´onn daoine o´ ga ag dul go dtı´ an tagtha le be´im nua a chur ar straite´is le Gaeilge Ghaeltacht i gco´ naı´ chun Gaeilge a fhoghlaim. labhartha a mhu´ ineadh sna scoileanna. Bı´onn daoine o´ ga sa´sta filleadh chun an Ta´ sa´r-obair a´ dhe´anamh ag na scoileanna la´n- Ghaeltacht gach samhradh, bliain in aghaidh Ghaelacha. Ta´ scoil i mo dhu´ iche fe´in i mBaile bhliain, agus baineann siad an-taitneamh as an Munna. Cheapfadh duine nach mbeadh seans ag Ghaeltacht. Nı´ mo´ r go mbeadh seans ag daoine e´inne Gaeilge a mhu´ ineadh na´ a labhairt san a´it nı´os aosta dul go dtı´ an Ghaeltacht. B’fhe´idir go sin ach bhı´ me´ ag caint leis an phrı´omhoide agus mbeadh siad in ann feabhas a chur ar a nGaeilge. roinnt dhaltaı´ cu´ pla la´ o´ shin. Is a´lainn an rud e´ Nı´ mo´ r dom fe´in dul go dtı´ an Ghaeltacht. Ta´ me´ dul isteach ansin agus a e´isteacht leis na pa´istı´ a an-bhro´ du´ il labhairt ar an a´bhar seo. thagann o´ na hara´sa´in i mBaile Munna, i bhFionnghlas agus Seantrabh agus cumas na Mr. Carey: Ta´ a´thas orm seans a fha´il chun Gaeilge acu nach gceapfadh duine a bheadh se´ in cu´ pla focal a ra´ sna ra´itisı´ ar an Ghaeilge. ann a aimsiu´ sna ha´iteanna sin ar chor ar bith. Ta´ Cuireann se´ dı´oma´ orm gur an slua ce´anna ata´ an timpeallacht ann, a´fach, a chuireann an anseo is a bhı´onn ann gach uair a phle´itear Ghaeilge chun cinn. Sin an fa´th go bhfuil me´ ceisteanna sa Teach mar gheall ar an nGaeilge. chomh ba´u´ il sin do scoileanna la´n-Ghaelacha. Ba mhaith liom tre´aslu´ leis an Aire as ucht an Bhı´ an dı´ospo´ ireacht ce´anna ann nuair a bhı´ beocht ata´ curtha aige ina Aireacht agus an neart me i gCola´iste Pha´draig i nDroim Conrach. Bhı´ ata´ aige ann. O´ n am a thosaigh se´ san oifig seo, conspo´ id ann faoi bilingualism in Irish education. ta´ ala´nde´anta aige a bhfuil ta´bhacht ag baint Bhı´ scoilteadh ann idir na daoine a cheap go leis. San am ata´ agam, ba mhaith liom caint mar bhfe´adfadh co´ ras oideachais e´ifeachtach a bheith gheall ar cu´ pla nithe den me´id sin. ann trı´ Ghaeilge agus co´ ras e´ifeachtach gan ı´.De Mu´ inteoir bunscoile is ea mise. Chaith me´ 30 bhrı´ go bhfuil an me´adu´ mo´ r sin tagtha ar lı´on na bliain ag mu´ ineadh a´bhair e´agsu´ la, chomh maith Gaelscoileanna, ta´ an cheist freagraithe. Is fe´idir leis an Ghaeilge. Nuair a bhı´ me´ ag dul ar scoil, an Ghaeilge a leathnu´ trı´d an straite´is sin. Ta´ an- d’fhoghlaim me´ beagnach gach rud trı´ mhea´nna obair de´anta ag an Chumann Lu´ thchleas Gael Gaeilge i scoil beag i gContae Chiarraı´. Bhı´ beirt agus an FAI agus ta´ su´ il agam go leanfaidh siad mu´ inteoir sa scoil ar dtu´ s, ach bhı´ triu´ r ann ina leis. dhiaidh sin. Bhı´odar ar fheabhas i gca´smu´ ineadh Labhair daoine ar na cola´istı´ samhraidh. Nı´ na Gaeilge. Ce´ go bhfuil ce´im agam sa Ghaeilge, raibh me´ riamh mar dhalta no´ mar mhu´ inteoir caithfidh me´ a admha´il go bhfuil meirg ar mo iontu ach ta´ aithne agam ar a la´npa´istı´ a the´ann chuid lı´ofacht. Ta´ se´ imithe chun donais leis na ann gach samhradh agus baineann siad an- blianta, ach taithnı´onn se´ liom triail a bhaint as taitneamh as an trı´ sheachtain a chaitheann siad anois is arı´s trı´ pha´irt a ghlacadh sna ann agus ta´ timpeallacht Gaeilge ann an t-am ar dı´ospo´ ireachtaı´ seo. fad. Tagann siad abhaile agus ba´ acu don Ba mhaith liom labhairt faoi mhu´ ineadh na Ghaeilge. Ghaeilge. Aontaı´m le cuid dos na rudaı´ ata´ ra´ite Bhı´ me´ in RTE inniu ag caint ar bhunreacht na ag an Teachta Kenny, ce´ nach bhfuil an ra´iteas go hEorpa. Ag deireadh an chla´ir bhı´ me´ ag labhairt le´ir le´ite agam. Ba cheart du´ inn aire a thabhairt ar leis an fhoireann agus tha´inig teachtaireachtaı´ cuid de na rudaı´ a duirt se´. Cad ata´ imithe chun isteach ag deireadh an chla´ir agus an bhe´im a bhı´ donais i leith mu´ ineadh na Gaeilge sna iontu na´ go bhfuil imnı´ agala´n daoine cad e´ a 1705 Irish Language: 23 March 2005. Statements 1706 tharlo´ idh don fhe´iniu´ lacht Gaelach ma´ chloı´fimid sin. B’fhe´idir go bhfe´adfaimis aontu´ a fha´il ar leis an bhunreacht sin. Beidh nı´os mo fuinnimh bhonn traspha´irteach. ann ma´ ghlacann muintir na hE´ ireann leis an Nuair a tha´ngas isteach anseo, bhı´ an Teachta bhunreacht sin. Sargent ann, agus gach uair da´r sheas se´ suas, bhı´ O´ namatha´inig Riverdance chun cinn, ta´ an alt no´ leathalt aige as Gaeilge. Deir a la´n daoine beocht agus fairsingeacht i leith na Gaeilge nach gur tokenism e´ sin, ach nı´ aontaı´m leis sin. raibh ann riamh cheana. Ta´ scrı´bhneoireacht den B’fhe´idir go bhfe´adfaimis go le´ir u´ sa´id a bhaint chaighdean is airde ann anois trı´ Ghaeilge. Ta´ as an Gaeilge anois agus arı´st, no´ gach uair da´ cumas ceoil ann i bhfad nı´os brı´omhaire na´ mar bhfuilimid ag labhairt. De ghna´th, cloisim an a bhı´odh. Is fe´idir le Raidio´ na Gaeltachta agus Teachta O´ Snodaigh ag baint u´ sa´ide as an TG4 bouquet a fha´il. Ba cheart du´ inn iad a Gaeilge go forleathan, chomh minic agus is fe´idir thre´aslu´ as ucht na dea-oibre ata´ a´ de´anamh acu leis, ar feadh 20 no´ ime´ad no´ mar sin. Is do´ igh gach la´.Ta´ cumas ag daoine an Ghaeilge a liom go mb’fhe´idir lena la´n daoine anseo e´ sin a thuiscint a bhı´onn le fe´acha´int ar TG4 na´r cheap dhe´anamh da´ mbeadh cleachtadh nı´ b’fhearr acu go raibh an fe´idreacht acu sa teanga. ar chaint anseo eatarthu fe´in. Nı´limid ag caint Ta´ an cla´r polaitı´ochta ann ag Eoin O´ Murchu´ eadrainn fe´in anseo, o´ ir ta´ gach e´inne ag e´isteacht ar Raidio´ na Gaeltachta gach Aoine agus ba linn amuigh. Bheadh nı´ ba mho´ beochta sa mhaith liom go leathno´ dh Raidio´ na Gaeltachta dı´ospo´ ireacht seo da´ dtarlo´ dh se´ i bhfad nı´ ba cla´ranna cosu´ il leis sin. Nı´l go leor dı´ofa ann. mho´ . B’fhe´idir go mbeadh se´ nı´os fearr da´ mbeadh cla´racha a´itiu´ la ann. Ta´ “Caint sa Chathair” ag Mr. Sargent: Go raibh maith ag an Leas- Raidio´ naGaeltachta agus ta´ suim ag a la´n Cheann Comhairle as an deis seo a thabhairt dom daoine ann. labhairt ar an dı´ospo´ ireacht seo faoin Ghaeilge. Is beag a chloisim, a´fach, sna sta´isiu´ in trachta´la Fa´iltı´m roimpi, rud a dhe´anann mo´ pha´irtı´ freisin. as Gaeilge. Bı´onn cinnlı´nte nuachta i roinnt acu Ce´ nach gceapfadh daoine a bhı´ ag e´isteacht leis ach nı´or chlois me´ oiread is alt amha´in ar na an Aire go gcuirimid fa´ilte roimh an Acht teanga, sta´isiu´ in sa gcathair seo. Ba cheart don cuireann a la´n daoine sa Fhreasu´ ra fa´ilte roimhe. Broadcasting Commission of Ireland iniu´ chadh Chomh maith leis sin, ta´ a´thas orainn maidir leis isteach sa gceist sin le fa´il amach ce´nfa´th nach an dul chun cinn a bheidh ag leanu´ int ar aghaidh, bhfuil siad ag cur na Gaeilge chun cinn. Ta´ le cu´ namh De´, i sta´das na teanga san Aontas mandate acu sin a dhe´anamh. Eorpach. Du´ irt an tAire go bhfuil naoi ordu´ Nı´ mo´ r dom e´ seo a ra´ i dtoiseacht ba´ire, mar logainmneacha de´anta aige, ag cur san a´ireamh o´ bheith ag e´isteacht leis an Aire, cheapfaı´ go ordu´ logainmneacha a thiocfaidh i bhfeidhm ar raibh an Freasu´ ra ar chu´ is amha´in no´ ar chu´ is eile an 20 Ma´rta 2005. Sin ra´ite, nı´l a fhios agam ca´ i goinne an Acht teanga. Ta´ se´ ta´bhachtach go bhfaigheann a la´n daoine na logainmneacha anois dtuigeann agus go n-admhaı´onn an tAire go sa chathair seo agus ar fud na tı´re. Ta´ se´ deacair bhfuil e´agsu´ lacht tuairimı´ i measc daoine ina a thuiscint ce´nfa´th nach bhfuil nı´os mo´ be´ime a´ pha´irtı´ fe´in, i bpa´irtithe an Fhreasu´ ra agus i cur ag na comhairlı´ contae agus a´itiu´ la sa treo is measc na dTeachtaı´ Neamhsplea´cha. Ta´ an go gcuirfeadh se´ iachall ar na buı´onta to´ ga´la u´ sa´id e´agsu´ lacht sin mar chroı´la´r na ceiste o´ thaobh na a bhaint as logainmneacha a bhfuil baint acu leis Gaeilge de chomh maith. I measc lucht na an a´it fe´in agus a bhfuil an stair a´itiuil ceangailte Gaeilge, ta´ e´agsu´ lacht ann. Is trua e´, mar sin, go leo. B’fhe´idir go mbeadh an tAire in ann nı´os mo´ ndeir an tAire go gceapann lucht na Gaeilge rud bru´ a chur ar na comhairlı´ a´itiu´ la chun e´ sin a e´igin i gcomhthe´acs amha´in no´ i gcomhthe´acs fheabhsu´ . eile, mar nı´ fe´idir bheith ag caint mar gheall ar Bhı´ dı´ospo´ ireacht i rith na bliana seo caite mar dhaoine a bhaineann u´ sa´id as teanga mar ghru´ pa gheall ar sta´das na Gaeilge san Eoraip. Ta´ su´ il a smaoineann mar a gce´anna agus ata´ an-chosu´ il agam anois go bhfuilimid nı´os gaire aontu´ a fha´il lena che´ile. o´ na´r gcomhghleacaithe sa Chomhaontas Eorpach B’fhe´idir gur ceacht e´ sin san E´ irinn nua- le go mbeadh an sta´das ce´anna ag an Ghaeilge is aimseartha ata´ againn. Bhı´ caint ar dhaoine ag ata´ ag na teangacha eile. Ta´ an argo´ int de´anta, teacht isteach o´ thı´ortha eile, daoine a bhfuil agus ta´ su´ il agam gur ghlac gach e´inne le´i. I rith cu´ lra´ polaitiu´ il difriu´ il acu agus mar sin de. Ta´ na seachtaine seo caite, le´igh me´ a´it e´igin go raibh daoine de gach so´ rt anois ag baint u´ sa´ide as an gach seans ann anois go mbeadh an sta´das ce´anna Ghaeilge mar theanga cumarsa´ide, a bheag no´ a ag an Ghaeilge is ata´ ag na teangacha eile san mho´ r. Ta´ me´ ag caint faoi dhaoine ata´ e´agsu´ il ar AE. bhealaı´ eile — daoine aeracha agus dı´reacha, Mar fhocal scoir, is do´ cha gur ta´bhachtach an Prostastu´ naigh agus Caitlicigh a labhraı´onn rud e´ go bhfuil am a´ chur ar leataobh againn Gaeilge, daoine gorma, geala agus daoine o´ anseo chun labhairt ar chu´ rsaı´ Gaeilge, ach nach thraidisiu´ in e´agsu´ la polaitı´ochta chomh maith. dochrach e´ nach bhfuil ach cu´ pla la´ sa bhliain Seans go bhfuil se´ seo nı´os ta´bhachtaı´ na´ rud ar curtha in a´irithe chun ceisteanna ta´bhachtacha na bith eile: daoine a labhraı´onn Gaeilge ata´ lı´ofa Gaeilge a phle´ anseo. Ta´ a fhios agam go bhfuil agus daoine a dhe´anann iarracht Gaeilge a ceachtanna ar fa´il againne anseo chun feabhas a labhairt ata´ fo´ s ag foghlaim. chur ar a´r gcuid Gaeilge, agus ta´ a fhios agam go Ta´imid go le´ir ag foghlaim, ach ta´ daoine ann mbı´onn a la´n daoine ag freastal ar na ceachtanna ata´ amhrasach mar gheall ar an Ghaeilge mar 1707 Irish Language: 23 March 2005. Statements 1708

[Mr. Sargent.] Be´arla a chur i la´thair, taobh le taobh, nı´ mhodh cumarsa´ide do gach aon o´ ca´id. Luaigh me´ dhe´anfar dul chun cinn le formho´ r muintir na e´ seo go pearsanta leis an Aire cheana fe´in, ach hE´ ireann ata´ ag iarraidh Gaeilge a u´ sa´id agus ata´ ceapaim gur fiu´ dı´ospo´ ireacht a spreagadh faoi ag lorg cabhair chun ı´ au´ sa´id. Ma´sfe´idir seo chomh maith. Ta´ go leor iarrachtaı´ a´ foilsiu´ cha´in a chur ar fail ina bhfuil Be´arla agus nde´anamh ca´ipe´isı´ a fhoilsiu´ i nGaeilge agus i Gaeilge taobh le taobh, is dul chun cinn a bhe´as mBe´arla, mar thoradh ar an Acht teanga, ann. b’fhe´idir. D’ainneoin sin, agus me´ ag fe´achaint ar Ta´ an Coimisine´ir Teanga, Sea´nO´ Cuirrea´in, roinnt mhaith de na tuairiscı´ sin, caithfidh me´ a tar e´is tuairisc an-bheomhar agus an-fiu´ ntach a ra´ go bhfuil dı´oma´ orm, nı´ amha´in nach bhfuil an fhoilsiu´ agus cuirim fa´ilte roimhe. Nı´lse´ ag Ghaeilge ata´ iontu iontach ar fad ach go iarraidh rudaı´ a she´anadh, ta´ se´ ag ple´ ceisteanna gcaithfear bheith lı´ofa sa teanga chun iad a ata´ achrannach ach gur ceart a phle´, mar shampla, le´amh. u´ sa´id na Gaeilge san Oireachtas. Ta´ go leor Muna bhfuiltear lı´ofa, caithfear bheith an-aclaı´ daoine le cumas na Gaeilge acu san Oireachtas no´ bheith in ann fe´achaint ar rudaı´ bun os cionn. ach ta´ saoirse cainte agam agus ag an Teachta O´ Mar shampla, ta´ cu´ pla ca´ipe´is agam anseo. Nı´l Snodaigh agus Teachtaı´ sa Ghru´ pa Teicniu´ il ach Be´arla ar an leathanach seo: “An inniu, rud nach mbı´onn againn de ghna´th. Go Explanatory Guide to the European minic, nı´ bhı´onn deis againn labhairt chomh fada Constitution, Department of Foreign Affairs”. Ta´ agus is mian linn de bharr go bhfuil daoine eile se´ as Be´arla ar fad go dtı´ go dtagann an le´itheoir ag iarraidh labhairt. An uair seo, a´fach, ta´ go dtı´ croı´la´r an leabhair, agus ansin, feiceann se´ ganntannas daoine ag iarraidh labhairt agus ta´ go bhfuil rudaı´ bun os cionn. Nuair a amharcann saoirse agam labhairt le 15 no´ ime´ad agus is se´ go ge´ar air, aithnı´onn se´ gur Gaeilge ı´ an iontach an deis dom sin a dhe´anamh. Is droch- teanga ata´ bun os cionn. Mar sin, bı´onn ar dhuine chomhartha e´ fosta. Tuigfidh an coimisine´ir an e´ a chasadh bun os cionn ar fad agus toiseacht ag che´ad uair eile a bheidh se´ ag labhairt leis na le´amh arı´st, oiread is da´ mbeadh leabhar nua mea´in cumarsa´ide ce´ go bhfuil Gaeilge ag go leor aige. daoine sa Teach gur beag an meas ata´ acu uirthi. Mar sin, ma´ ta´ me´ ag ullmhu´ , mar a bhı´onn Ta´ siad gno´ itheach gan amhras agus nı´ fe´idir leo agus mar a bheidh me´, chun ceist Bhunreacht na bheith anseo an t-am ar fad, ach is dı´ospo´ ireacht hEorpa a phle´,ta´ orm bheith ag le´amh eisceachtu´ il seo agus cheap me´ go mbeadh nı´os te´armaı´ochta as Gaeilge ata´ mo´ daoine ag iarraidh labhairt. 6 o’clock beaga´inı´n eisceachtu´ il no´ casta. Chun B’fhe´idir go gcaithfimid a ghlacadh leis gur mar teacht ar an aistriu´ cha´nBe´arla, ta´ sin ata´ se´,ce´ gur mhaith liom fa´ilte a chur roimh orm e´ a chasadh bun os cionn agus dul ag cuardach an leathanaigh ar a bhfuil an leagan nı´os mo´ daoine anseo ag labhairt as Gaeilge. San Be´arla scrı´ofa. I nda´irı´re, nı´ cabhair e´ sin u´ sa´id Oireachtas fe´in, nı´ bheadh an Ghaeilge a´ labhairt na Gaeilge a spreagadh. Bhı´ daoine ag caint mar chomh minic agus a bhı´onn, fiu´ nach minic go gheall ar tokenism, ach i nda´irire cosnaı´onn se´ go leor a tharlaı´onn, ach amha´in go bhfuil mea´in leor airgead chun an leagan Gaelige agus Be´arla cumarsa´ide a bhı´onn ag obair trı´ Ghaeilge ar no´ s a fhoilsiu´ . Mura bfhuil siad taobh le taobh, ta´ se´ TG4, La´, Foinse agus daoine sna hirisı´ e´agsu´ la a an dheacair an u´ sa´id is fearr a bhaint as an da´ bhı´onn ann as Be´arla an chuid is mo´ ar no´ s leagan. Deirimse arı´s le gach duine ata´ freagrach Village agus The Irish Times anseo. I nda´irı´re ta´ as, go mo´ rmho´ r leis an Aire, an Teachta O´ Cuı´v, an da´ rud fite fuaite le che´ile. Ta´ na mea´in a gur ceart comhairle a chur ar gach Roinn, bhı´onn ag tuairisciu´ agus na daoine a bhı´onn ag a´isı´nteacht oifigiu´ il agus duine ata´ freagrach as na caint ag fe´achaint agus ag e´isteacht lena che´ile. tuairiscı´ seo a ionadu´ mar uaireanta bı´onn siad Mura bhfuil fa´ilte roimh Ghaeilge ag iriseoirı´, scartha o´ na che´ile ar fad. Ta´ leabhra´n amha´in o´ n bı´onn se´ nı´os deacra ı´ au´ sa´id mar ta´ se´ deacair Roinn Iompair anseo agam ata´ as Be´arla o´ bhun go leor teachtaireacht a chur in iu´ l don phobal. go barr. Deireann se´ Department of Transport ce´ Mura bhfuil duine ar bith ag e´isteacht leis agus go bhfuil An Roinn Iompair scrı´ofa go han-bheag ag foilsiu´ na teachtaireachta sin, is beag an seans mar aitheantas to bfhuil Gaeilge ann. Road ata´ ag Ball. Safety Strategy 2004-2006 ata´ scrı´ofa air. Agus sinn ag caint ar seachtain na Gaeilge, ba Ceapfadh duine, agus an an leabhar a´ le´amh, gur cheart smaointiu´ ar conas is fe´idir nı´os mo´ beag an meas a bhfuil ag an Roinn aon a´bhar a Gaeilge a chur chun cinn san Oireachtas. Ta´ go chur ar fa´il as Gaeilge. Ma´ the´ann duine ag leor scoileanna a thugann cuairt ar an a´it seo agus cuardach an leagan Gaeilge, ta´ se´ le fa´il ceart go go minic na laethanta seo bı´onn Gaelscoileanna leor agus e´ scrı´ofa go le´ir as Gaeilge. Ciallaı´onn ina measc. Tagann scolairı´ isteach go dtı´ an se´ seo gan amhras gur cheapann daoine ins an Gailearaı´ Poiblı´ le he´isteacht linn. Ba cheart Roinn Iompair go bhfuil da´ chinea´il duine ann in du´ inn pleana´il a dhe´anamh go mbeadh laethanta E´ ireann: daoine a labhrann Gaeilge amha´in and Gaeilge ann gach mı´ agus go mbeadh fa´ilte roimh daoine a labhrann Be´arla amha´in. scoileanna a bhı´onn ag iarraidh e´isteacht le Chaithfidh me´ ara´ arı´s agus arı´s nach mar sin dı´ospo´ ireacht trı´ Ghaeilge ar na laethanta sin. a bhfuil an saol ar chor ar bith. Go dtı´ go Spreagfadh sin daoine le Gaeilge a u´ sa´id agus dtuigeann na ha´isı´nteachtaı´ Sta´it agus an tAire chuirfeadh se´ fa´ilte nı´os Gaelaı´ rompu siu´ das fhe´in go bfhuil se´ tabhachtach an Gaeilge agus an na Gaelscoileanna. 1709 Irish Language: 23 March 2005. Statements 1710

I mo dha´ilcheantar fe´in, ta´ cu´ rsaı´ go mbeidh cuid mo´ r Gaeilge ins na Tuairisc Gaelscolaı´ochta ag me´adu´ agus ta´ Gaelscoil le Oifigiu´ il as seo amach. Beidh me´ sa´sta an obair a tosu´ i mBaile Bhrigı´n roimh i bhfad. Ta´ sin ag dhe´anamh tapaidh go leor agus deis agam caint teacht ar bharr Gaelscoileanna eile agus ta´ go le gach duine san i Du´ n na nGall go flu´ irseach i leor mea´nscoileanna aga bhfuil traidisiu´ in nGaeilge no´ i mBe´arla. Ghaeilge la´idir acu. Sin comhartha an-mhaith. Gabhaim buı´ochas leis na daoine a rinne Ta´ se´ ta´bhachtach go nde´anaimid tagairt do “Turas Teanga”. Ta´ se´ an-mhaith ar fad. Ta´ an chu´ rsaı´ sa Ghaeltacht. Ta´ U´ dara´s na Gaeltachta gra´ faoi glas cosu´ il le “Big Brother”. Ta´ se´ nua- ag dı´riu´ ar chu´ rsaı´ fostaı´ochta ach bı´onn go leor aimseartha agus ta´ suim agam san cla´r. Go minic caint faoi chu´ rsaı´ pleana´la. Ba cheart go mbeadh sı´lim go raibh na cursaı´ Gaeilge cu´ pla bhliain o´ sin la´rnach don u´ dara´sa´itiu´ il gan e´ a mheascadh shin “sean” no´ pa´istiu´ il, ach anois ta´ leabhair le hU´ dara´s na Gaeltachta. Sin tuairim ata´ ag cosu´ il le Sorcha sa Ghailearaı´ le Catherine Foley, Diarmuid Mulcahy, an t-iarratho´ ir ata´ againn i Du´nmharu ar an Dart le Ruaidhrı´ O´ Baile, Turas gCona Mara, duine ata´ ag ple´ le cu´ rsaı´ ceoil in Eadan na Gaoithe le Peter Hartling, aistrithe chomh maith le cu´ rsaı´ teanga i gComhaltas go Gaeilge ag Maire Mhic Eoin, An Swastica Glas Ceolto´ irı´ E´ ireann go minic. Ta´ daoine eile a agus A´ bhar Le´itheoireachta d’Fhoghlaimeoirı´ thagann isteach sa Ghaeltacht, ar no´ s Brian O´ Fa´sta. Freisin, ta´ TG4 ag de´anarnh a la´n cla´racha Flanaga´in, ata´ ag seasamh linn i gCondae na Mı´ nua, mar a bhfiul Raidio´ na Gaeltachta. sna toghcha´in d’U´ dara´s na Gaeltachta. Is as Inis Ta´ ala´narsiu´ il taobh amuigh den Teach. Bhı´ Ceithleann e´ agus chuir se´ iachall air fe´in Gaeilge an Aire Oideachas agus Eolaı´ochta, Ma´ire Nı´ a fhoghlaim agus is sampla du´ inn go le´ir e´ sin. Hanafin, i Du´ n na nGall cu´ pla seachtain o´ shin. I Mar a luaigh an Teachta Carey, caithfimid dı´riu´ gach a´it bhı´ sı´ in ann caint le na pa´istı´,na ar chu´ rsaı´ logainmneacha. Ma´ ta Gaeilge agus tuismitheoirı´ agus na mu´ inteoirı´ as Gaeilge agus mı´niu´ ar na comharthaı´ timpeall le feicea´il, Be´arla. Nı´ fe´idir le gach cuairteoir e´ sin a spreagfaidh se´ tuiscint ar an Ghaeilge chomh dhe´anamh. Chan na pa´istı´ “Ba´idı´n Fheilimı´”no´ maith le tuiscint ar an logainm fe´in. “Beidh Aonach Ama´rach” no chas siad ceol. Bhı´ na buachaillı´ agus na cailı´nı´ ag damsha rince Cecilia Keaveney: Is cu´ is a´thais dom a beith Ghaelach. Bhı´ a´thas an domhain orm. Bhı´ me´ an anseo chun cu´ pla focal a ra´ ar ra´itis maidir leis an sa´sta mar bhı´ na pa´istı´ an sa´sta libh fe´in agus nGaeilge. Ta´ an-suim agam san teanga agus san rinne siad iarracht iontach. cheol, rince agus cultu´ ir freisin mar ta´ siad Sna scoileanna ta´ an Ghaeilge in iomaı´ocht le ceangailte le che´ile. be´arla, stair etc. Rinne me´ agus an Aire cuairt ar Is as Du´ n na nGall me´, ach nı´lme´ cosu´ il lena Gaelscoil Bun Cranna agus nı´or labhair aon Teachtaı´ Coughlan, Gallagher agus McGinley. Is duine focal Be´arla. Bhı´ na trı´ r’s trı´ Ghaeilge. Ta´ trua ach is fı´or nach bhfuil me´ in aice na se´ mar an gce´anna sna Ghaelscoileanna eile agus Gaeltachta. Ceapann daoine go bhfuil gach dunie is deas e´ a fheaca´il o´ am go che´ile. Bhı´ cuid de as Du´ n na nGall o´ n Gaeltacht agus go bhfuil an na paistı´ an o´ g ach bhı´ siad in ann na ceisteanna teanga acu go lı´ofa. Nı´l Gaeilge maith agam, ach a fhreagairt gan fhadhb. Ta´ se´ mar an gce´anna in ta´ cu´ pla focail agam. Ta´ me´ mar Catheoirleach ar a´iteanna eile i Carndonagh agus Bun an Phobail. Comhchoiste um Ghno´ thaı´ Ealaı´on, Spo´ irt, Bhı´ me´ an bhro´ du´ il as an obair a dhearna siad ar Thuraso´ ireachta, Pobail, Tuaithe agus an son an teanga agus an cultu´ ir. Cheap me´ ar an la´ Gaeltacht agus is mian liom buı´ochas a gabha´il sin nı´ amha´in go raibh se´ go hiontach do gach leis an Rialtas as ucht an dispo´ ireacht seo. Is mo´ r duine a bhı´ ann ach go mbeadh se´ tairbheach don an trua nach nde´antar mora´n phle´ ar an Ghaeilge, aois o´ g amach anseo. agus is trua nach bhainimid u´ said as an teanga Nuair a smaoinı´onn duine ar an teanga, san Teach gach la´. smaoinionn se´ no´ sı´ ar an aos o´ g. Ina la´mha ata´ Ce´nfa´th ata´ le sin? An bhfuil Gaeilge againn? todhchaı´ na Gaeilge. Ta´ u´ sa´id na teanga ag An bhfuil suim againn san teanga? An bhfuil se´ me´adu´ imoa´it fe´in. Nı´lsı´ ag fa´il bha´is. Ta´ suim an deachair? Ma´ bhı´onn suim againn ta´ seans ag daoine thar lear i rudaı´ a mbaineann leis an againn dul sa treo cheart. Ghaeilge. Lasann aghaidh duine nuair a deirann Cu´ pla bhlian o´ shin bhı´ me´ ag caint faoin seans tu´ gur E´ ireannach tu´ . Bhı´ me´ i dTokyo an a bhı´ ag Teachtaı´ ranganna Ghaeilge a fha´il seachtain seo caite leis an Uachtara´in ag anseo. Thosaigh siad agus stad siad ach ta´ siad ar ceolcoirm “Altan agus a Chairde”. Bhı´ na daoine ais arı´s gach seachtain agus ta´ se´ de chuspo´ ir go le´ir “ar meisce” leis an ceoil agus an damsha agam mo chuid Ghaeilge a fha´il ar ais. Bhı´ Ghaelach seachas ar uisce beatha. Bhı´ siad ag Gaeilge againn go le´ir nuair a bhı´mid ar scoil agus lorg CDs no´ DVDs tar e´is an ceoilcoirm. Nı´ aon nuair a bhı´mid o´ g ach ar mo son fe´in nı´or bhain rud nua e´ sin. Chuir a la´n daoine ceisteanna me u´ said as an teanga agus mar sin d’imigh an orainn faoi Eyna, Riverdance, Clannad agus U2. eolais as mo cheann. Ba mhaith liom tacu´ leis an Bhı´ an Uachtara´n ag caint agus bhain sı´ u´ sa´id as tionscanarnh “TD Teanga” agus sı´lim go raibh se´ an Gaeilge agus cu´ pla focal Japanese. Bhı´ suim ar intinn ag cuid de na Teachtaı´ a chuid obair mho´ r ag na daoine in aice liom an teanga a bhaile a dhe´anamh agus an taithı´ a fha´il ar an chloisint, cuid acu imircigh o´ ntı´r seo le fada an teanga arı´s. la´ agus cuid eile o´ Japan. Gabhaim buı´ochas le Maire Nı´ Breathnach Bhı´ co´ isir Americea´nach La´ fe´ile Pha´draig ar agus an muinteoir eile ata´ againn. Ta´ su´ il agam an chla´r. D’iarr siad orm caint as Gaeilge. Nı´ 1711 Irish Language: 23 March 2005. Statements 1712

[Cecilia Keaveney.] den scoil. Only we, as individuals, can alter that raibh aon duine eile sa seomra as E´ ireann ach an practice and open minds. triu´ ir Teachta Da´la ach bhı´ an teanga Gaeilge de Leis an Acht na dTeangacha Oifigiu´ la dith ag gach an duine. Rinne me´ mo dhı´cheall (Comhionannas) we have opened up the agus bhı´ siad an sa´sta ach ta´ aife´ala orm nach possibility that people will be able to conduct bhfuil nı´os mo´ Gaeilge agam. Ta´ cultu´ ir na their business in either language. The Bill must nGaeilge an-suimiu´ il leis na daoine o´ Japan. be implemented. In addition, every effort should Bhuaileamar le daoine a raibh a la´n eolais acu be made in this House and elsewhere to engender faoin tı´r seo ach nach raibh siad riamh anseo, the feeling gur maith an rud ı´ an Gaeilge. It agus le daoine eile ata´ ag obair ar an fharraige should not be unusual to frequent the local Irish agus a mbı´onniDu´ n na nGall go minic gach language coffee shops agus na siopaı´ ata´ in bhlian ag ceannach iasc. Ta´ aithne mhaith acu ar a´iteanna nach bhfuil ro´ -fhada o´ n Teach ar Shra´id an cheoil agus an craic agus bhı´ siad aba´lta cu´ pla Cill Dara agus sra´ideanna eile. focal a ra´ as Gaeilge. We must foster among Gaelgo´ irı´, among whom Ta´ se´ cosu´ il le a´iteanna eile a bhı´ me´ roimhe I do not yet number myself, an acceptance that it sin. Bhı´ me´ i St. Petersburg cu´ pla bhlian o´ shin. is good for people to try. Their inaccuracies D’oscail me´ faculty nua san ollscoil, faculty of should not militate against their being Celtic studies. Bhı´ cuid de na daoine san ollscoil encouraged to continue to try and to practice. in ann caint as Gaeilge go flu´ irseach agus bhı´ a Too often the snobbery associated by some with la´n eolais acu faoi gach rud a bhaineann leis an an teanga has been its greatest enemy. Let us Ghaeilge. Fuair siad a la´n tacaı´ocht o´ n embassy reach out to help, not hinder, the resurgence, agus bhı´ me´ an bhuı´och as an tacaı´ocht a fuair particularly among na daoine o´ ga. We must siad o´ n Sta´t i gco´ ir leabhair agus rudaı´ eile. Ta´ continue to provide stimulating and attractive suim san domhain go le´ir san tı´r seo. Ta´ se´ an materials in terms of highlighting our past. It is a deachair a ra´ ce´nfa´th ata´ le sin, ach taitnı´onn rich past that provides an opportunity for rudaı´ Ghaelach le daoine ar fud an domhain — enrichment. an ceoil, an teanga, an Guinness no´ an uisce Ta´ cla´racha cosu´ il le “Turas Teanga” ar beatha agus a´r daoine. Ta´ se´ cosu´ il le lı´on an fheabhas agus ar TG4 bı´onn cla´racha cosu´ il le damhain alla — titeann siad isteach agus bı´onn “Blind Date”, a mbı´onn suimiu´ il. We should siad istigh ansin as sin amach. continue to encourage Irish in this century by making it relevant. Sending children to Irish When I am abroad, it scares me to see how schools is now trendy but the same cannot be said much Ireland has influenced the world. Ta´imid in for speaking Irish in this House. Many people ask gach a´it — hurling clubs in Argentina, faculties of us to ensure Irish is an official language of the Irish studies in Russia, Riverdance resounding in EU. However, should we not ensure it is part of China, Japanese people discussing the merits of life here as well as including it on a statute book James Joyce’s Ulysses and asking directions to elsewhere? People should feel comfortable Enya’s house. I am struck by eastern Europe coming to the House to speak in the Irish marvelling at our ability to achieve economic language, regardless of how fluent they are. We success, St. Patrick’s Day parades all over the must find a way of giving them that confidence. world, Roses of Tralee coming from every art and Gabhaim buı´ochas as ucht an deis cu´ pla focal part and our religious presence felt in most ara´. Deimhnı´mgonde´anfaidh me´ mo dhı´chill mo countries going back centuries. People all over chuid Gaeilge a fheabhsu´ chomh luath agus is the world can say “sla´inte”. Abroad our language, fe´idir. Ta´ se´ ar intinn agam cabhair a fha´il agus dancing, singing and culture are thought of in the cabhair a thabhairt ar an bhealach. An bhfuil an highest terms. We have opportunities to exploit gloine leath la´nno´ leath follamh? Scrı´obh me´ mo this through summer schools to teach the Irish o´ ra´id, agus mar sin ta´ se´ spesialta domsa. language, culture, dance and song. When one Ceapaim go bhfuil an gloine leath la´n, agus ma´ thinks of how many countries have Irish dancing dhe´anann gach duine a dhı´cheall, beidh seans taught in them, providing summer schools is a againn go le´ir an Gaeilge a feabhsu´ agus a means of keeping the tradition alive here. labhairt. Anybody who has been in America for St. Patrick’s Day will have seen the number of Irish Aengus O´ Snodaigh: Is iontach an rud e´ go dancers there. Offering summer schools here bhfuil an dı´ospo´ ireacht ar siu´ l. Is trua go bhfuil would be a means of keeping the traditions alive. an a´bhar os a´r gco´ ir ro´ -leathan. Nı´limid ag dı´riu´ Those traditions must be kept alive because in ar cheist a´irithe. De´anfaidh me´ iarracht dı´riu´ places such as Inishowen the traditional singers isteach ar roinnt rudaı´ ata´ tar e´is tarlu´ agus rudaı´ are literally dying. There is possibly a role in that eile a mholaim tarlu´ amach anseo. regard for the new traditional arts officer in the Cuirim fa´ilte roimh an dul chun cinn ata´ tar e´is Arts Council, Liz Doherty, cailı´n maith as tarlu´ le blian anuas. Glacam go bhfuil dul chun Buncrana, Contae Du´ n na nGall. cinn de´anta. Ta´ Foinse agus La´ ar fa´il, ta´ Foras Ta´ na bunscoileanna, gaelscoileanna agus na Gaeilge ann, TG4, Raidio´ na Gaeltachta agus mea´nscoileanna ag fa´s go tapaidh, ach ta´ rudaı´ an cuma ar go bhfuil sta´das nua ag teacht don mı´-cheart. It is still considered unusual u´ sa´id a teanga — nı´l se tagtha go fo´ ill. Molaim an tAire bhaint as Gaeilge no´ ı´ a chleachtu´ taoibh amuigh agus an Rialtas as an sta´das sin a lorg. Mar a du´ irt 1713 Irish Language: 23 March 2005. Statements 1714 me´ anuraidh, is trua na´r dhe´anamar iarracht an rialta a bhaint as na seirbhı´sı´ breise a bheidh ar sta´das sin a lorg 30 bliain o´ shin. fa´il trı´ mhea´n na Gaeilge o´ n Sta´tcho´ ras in Anuraidh, bhı´ me´ ag iarraidh go ndı´reofar ar imeacht ama de bharr na reachtaı´ochta nua. In leagan Gaeilge ar tascaı´ comh maith leis an a´it deifir a bheith ar Ghaeilgeoirı´ u´ sa´id a bhaint leagan Be´arla. Du´ irt an tAire Iompair ag an am as an Bhe´arla muna bhfuil an fhoirm ar fa´il, no´ go nde´antar beart de re´ir an briathar, agus foirm Be´arla a lı´onadh isteach as Gaeilge, de´anadh e´ lastuigh de cu´ pla la´.Ta´ seans againn cathfimid na foirmeacha a lorg mar Ghaeilgeoirı´, dul chun cinn a dhe´anamh. iadalı´onadh isteach, agus u´ sa´id a bhaint as na Dul chun cinn eile na´ go bhfuil an che´ad seirbhı´sı´. Deir se´ ag deireadh an phı´osa go bhfuil tuairisc againn o´ Choimisine´ir na dTeangacha se´ fı´or gur mhinic a bhı´odh deacracht ag duine Oifigu´ la. Ta´ se´ go hiontach go bhfuil an oiread aonair a ghno´ a dhe´anamh go furasta leis an Sta´t sin geara´in ann. Gan an me´ad sin a bheith ann, trı´ Ghaeilge san am ata´ caite. De re´ir mar a bheadh gach duine a´ ra´ go raibh gach rud i gceart. thiocfaidh me´adu´ ar chumas an Sta´it seirbhı´sı´ a Ta´ siu´ l agam go mbeidh nı´os mo´ geara´in ann an chur ar fa´il trı´ Ghaeilge, beidh du´ shla´n ann don bhliain seo chugainn, ach go mbeidh dul chun phobal ata´ inniu´ il ar an Ghaeilge an teanga sin a cinn de´anta idir an da´ linn ag na Ranna. Ta´ roghnu´ agus iad i mbun gno´ leis an Sta´t. Sin an daoine da´irı´re faoin teanga agus ag iarraidh dul i du´ shla´ndu´ inne, ach ta´ du´ shla´naranSta´t chomh ngleic leis na Ranna agus Gaeilge a u´ sa´id. Ba maith. cheart go mbeidh daoine sa´sta a chearta a bhaint Ina la´nre´imsı´,nı´l an Sta´t ag comhlı´onamh a amach agus geara´in a dhe´anamh nuair nach fe´idir dhualgaisı´. Sa Ghaelscolaı´ocht ach go ha´irithe, nı´l leo seirbhı´s a fha´il trı´ Gaeilge. B’fhe´idir taobh an Sta´tcho´ ras ag de´anamh tosaı´ochta den cheist istigh de deich mblian tiocfaidh laghdu´ ar leibhe´al seo. Ta´ liosta feithimh ina la´n Gaelscoileanna sa na geara´in, agus nach mbeidh gha´ le coimisine´ir. chathair seo, mar ni fe´idir leo leathnu´ .Ce´nfa´th Roimh an Acht na dTeangacha Oifigiu´ la, mhol nach bhfuil an Sta´tcho´ ras, an Roinn Oideachais me´ fe´in agus daoine eile sa Teach, mar ba cho´ ir agus Eolaı´ochta ach go ha´irithe, ag cur du´ inn ar an taobh seo den Teach, agus mhol foirgneamh no´ suı´omhanna nua ar fa´il do´ ibh no´ daoine i Fianna Fa´il agus na PDs an rud ce´anna, ag tabhairt gach uile thacaı´ochta do´ ibh siu´ da go raibh an ghne´ seo an-tha´bhachtach. Ta´ siu´ il theastaı´onn sı´ uathu ionas gur fe´idir leo Gaelscoil agam go n-eı´rı´odh leis na choimisine´ir amach nua a tho´ gaint le de´ilea´il leis an chomhartha baoil anseo. seo agus an t-e´ileamh ata´ ann? I mo cheantar, Ta´ fadhbanna fo´ s ann. Luaigh an Teachta ta´ Gaelscoil Inse Cho´ r curtha i mbaol. Ta´ liosta O’Shea fadhb amha´in nuair a du´ irt se´ gur minic feithimh an-fhada ag na hu´ dara´is. I mBaile a bhı´onn eagla orainn labhairt i nGaeilge anseo Phamair i mbliana, bhı´ siad ag lorg suı´mh nua, mar go dto´ gann na mea´nchumarsa´ide neamh- ach nı´ bhfuair siad e´, agus du´ irt an Roinn leo dul aird. Sin ghne´ de saol na tı´re, agus caithimid fha´il ar aghaidh sa scoil a bhı´ ann cheana fe´in in amach conas iompaı´ ar na mea´nchumarsa´ide e´ist ainneoin go raibh breis agus 30 duine acu don linn nuair a labhraı´onn Teachtaı´ trı´ Gaeilge, nı´os che´ad agus don darna bliain sa scoil sin. Ta´ se´ forleathana na TG4 agus Raidio´ na Gaeltachta. seo fı´or i ngach uile a´it timpeall na tı´re a bhfuil Ta´ an me´ad ata´ a´ ra´ anseo dı´rithe ar na mea´n Gaelscoileanna lonnaithe. Bı´onn e´ileamh mo´ r uilig. Is trua nach bhfuil ach colu´ in amha´in sa ann do´ ibh. Is ga´ du´ inn impı´ ar an Roinn seachtan ag de´ala´il le rudaı´ a dtarlaı´onn sa Teach. Oideachais agus Eolaı´ochta tosaı´ocht a thabhairt Ta´ colu´ n san The Irish Times agus ta´ ceann i sa treo is go mbeadh sı´ ag moladh Gaelscoileanna Daily Ireland agus i Village.Fo´ s, nı´l colu´ nsa agus chun tosaigh ag de´anamh cinnte go dto´ gfaı´ chuid is mo´ de na pa´ipe´ar nuachta eile. tuilleadh acu. Nı´ chloisim Gaeilge a´ labhairt ar na sta´isiu´ in Ta´ tromaı´ocht a´ de´anamh ar na daltaı´ a bhı´onn raidio´ sa chathair seo ach go ha´irithe. Nı´ chloisim ag freastal ar na Gaelscoileanna, mar nı´lna mora´narnasta´isiu´ in taobh amuigh den chathair te´acsleabhair ar fa´il as Gaeilge go fo´ ill, in ach an oiread. Nuair a bhı´ dı´ospo´ ireacht ar siu´ il ainneoin go bhfuil siad ar fa´il i mBe´arla. Ba cho´ ir maidir le athru´ o´ na sta´isiu´ in mı´dhleathach go go mbeadh an obair sin ag tarlu´ ag an am ce´anna chinn a´itiu´ il, mar shampla 98FM, bhi caint ar seachas ina dhiaidh. Ta´ a fhios agam gur thosaigh ce´adada´n cla´racha trı´ Ghaeilge, ach nı´or tha´rla se´ dream a dhı´riu´ isteach ar an cheist seo, ach beidh sin. Nı´l an riall a´ chur i bhfeidhm ma´s rud e´ go trı´ bliana imithe sula mbeidh na te´acsleabhair don bhfuil an ce´adada´in ann. churaclam nua ar fa´il do dhaltaı´ i Ta´ fadhb ann i leith na Ranna, rud a luaigh nGaelscoileanna lasmuigh agus laistigh den Choimisine´ir na dTeangacha Oifigu´ la. Nı´ fe´idir Ghaeltacht. Bhı´ me´ ag labhairt le mu´ inteoir ag linn a´r ghno´ a dhe´anamh o´ tu´ s deireadh trı´ an deireadh seachtaine a thaispea´in na co´ ipeanna Gaeilge. Beidh me´ ag cuir isteach roinnt geara´in domau´ sa´ideann se´ chun an curaclam nua a i mbliana mar gheall ar sin. Ta´ me´ sa´sta seans a mhu´ ineadh. Is trua e´ sin, agus taispea´nann se´ sin thabhairt an Acht a chuir i gcrı´ch, ach ta´ bliain teip an Sta´tcho´ rais de´ilea´il leis an cheist seo. imithe agus seo an deis ata´ agam. Ta´ se´ Bhı´ daoine ag caitheamh anuas ar an me´id ta´bhachtach du´ inne, mar is muidinne an pobal. airgid a chaitear ar an Ghaeilge agus an me´id Nı´ muidinne lucht na Da´la amha´in ach an pobal airgid a chosno´ dh an tAcht teanga. Nı´ ga´ gach Gaeilge lasmuigh. Ta´ du´ shla´n ann du´ inn. Du´ irt se´ uile thuairisc a fhoilsiu´ as Gaeilge agus as Be´arla. freisin gur du´ shla´ne´ do chomhlachtaı´ poiblı´ na Is fe´idir iad a chur ar fa´il ar an Idirlı´on. Sin an tı´re. Tugann se´ du´ shla´n don phobal freisin u´ sa´id gle´as is fearr chun cuidiu´ leis an Ghaeilge. Is 1715 Irish Language: 23 March 2005. Statements 1716

[Aengus O´ Snodaigh.] trı´ Ghaeilge. Ba cho´ ir go mbeadh na hAirı´ eile fe´idir na foirmeacha a chur ar fa´il ar an Idirlı´on agus muid fe´in ag tabhairt na ceannasaı´ochta sin ionas nach ga´ do dhuine ach dul isteach in ionad do lucht na Gaeilge. Nı´l Gaeilge lı´ofa ag an Aire Sta´it a´ ra´ leis an duine ata´ taobh thair den chu´ ntar McDowell, agus bı´magsı´orthroid leis i nGaeilge go bhfuil an fhoirm sin a´ lorg aige. Bualfaidh an agus i mBe´arla, ach is eisean an duine a le´irigh duine cnaipe, agus eiseoidh an rı´omhaire an sampla don chuid eile againn gur cho´ ir cur leis an fhoirm as Gaeilge. Ma´ ta´ se´ ag lorg ceann de na me´id Gaeilge a bhı´onn a´ u´ sa´id. Ba cho´ ir du´ inn tuairiscı´ millteanach mo´ ra ar a raibh an Teachta impı´ ar TG4 agus Raidı´o na Gaeltachta dı´riu´ Sargent ag caint, is fe´idir leis dul ar an Idirlı´on i isteach ar dhı´ospo´ ireachtaı´ a chuirimid ar mBe´arla no´ Gaeilge agus, amach anseo, b’fhe´idir leataobh. Ba cho´ ir go mbeadh De´ardaoin, mar i dteanga eile. Sin an tslı´ ar cho´ ir du´ inn dul. Is shampla, as Gaeilge go huile is go hiomla´n. Ba fe´idir an costas a chur isteach i re´imsı´ eile a cho´ ir du´ inn dı´riu´ isteach ar rud e´igin mar sin. bhaineann leis an teanga seachas e´ a chaitheamh Chuideodh se´ liom agus le gach Teachta eile ata´ amu´ ag foilsiu´ na mı´lte co´ ipeanna de thuairisc ag iarraidh an Ghaeilge a u´ sa´id agus muid ag nach bhfuil aon duine ag dul a le´amh in am ar de´ilea´il le reachtaı´ocht da´ bhfoilseofaı´ na Billı´ i bith. Gheobhaidh iad siu´ d ar spe´is leo e´ ar an nGaeilge. Ta´ an fhoclaı´ocht a bhı´onn iontu Idirlı´on ar aon chaoi e´. deacair orainne ata´ lı´ofa sa teanga ach nach bhfuil Ba mhaith liom dı´riu´ isteach ar an Ghaeltacht lı´ofa sa so´ rt foclaı´ochta sin. Da´ mbeadh se´ i fe´in. Caithfimid poist a chruthu´ sa Ghaeltacht a nGaeilge, bheadh se´ i bhfad E´ ireann nı´ b’e´asca mheallann an t-aos o´ g fanacht inti. Sin an fhadhb du´ inn e´ sin a dhe´anamh. is mo´ , ach go ha´irithe i nGaeltacht Thı´r Chonaill; Tre´aslaı´m leis an Aire arı´st, agus le gach duine bı´onn an t-aos o´ g ag imeacht. Te´ann siad ar a chuidigh sa dı´ospo´ ireacht seo. Ba cho´ ir go chola´istı´ trı´u´ leibhe´il, agus nı´ fhilleann siad ar an mbeadh dı´ospo´ ireacht cheart againn go rialta. Ghaeltacht. Nı´l na poist chuı´ ar fa´il do´ ibh. Mar no´ ta deiridh, gabhaim comhbhro´ n le clann Faigheann siad scileanna nua sna hollscoileanna, an iar-Sheanado´ ra, Po´ lO´ Foighil. Bhuail me´ leis agus cad is fiu´ do´ ibh teacht ar ais chun na cu´ pla uair. Fear mo´ r na Gaeilge agus Ghaeltacht Gaeltachta muna bhfuil na poist ar fa´il in aice Chonamara ab ea e´, agus de´anaim comhbhro´ n leo? Caithfimid dı´riu´ isteach air sin. Caithfimid lena chlann agus a pha´irtı´. o´ geagrais a bhunu´ sna Gaeltachtaı´ a mheallann o´ ga´naigh an cheantair an me´id Gaeilge agus an Mr. T. Dempsey: Ta´ a´thas orm seans a fha´il saibhreas Gaeilge ata´ acuau´ sa´id lasmuigh de na labhairt ar cheist na Gaeilge. Ta´ se´ ta´bhachtach scoileanna. Ba cheart du´ inn an rud ceanann smaoineamh inniu faoin ı´obairt a rinne a´r sinsear ce´anna a dhe´anamh sna ceantair sin ar fad a nuair nach raibh cead acu Gaeilge a labhairt agus bhfuil Gaelscoileanna iontu, i mBaile A´ tha an tre´an-iarracht a rinne siad ar dte´anga binn a Cliath, Luimneach, Tiobraid A´ rainn no´ pe´ a´it choimea´d beo. Du´ irt Pa´draig Mac Piarais, “gan timpeall na tı´re. teanga, gan tı´r” agus e´ ag cur sı´os ar an O´ thaobh mhu´ ineadh na Gaeilge de, bhı´ an dlu´ thbhaint idir aitheantas na´isiu´ nta agus an ceart ag an Teachta Kenny dı´riu´ isteach ar an teanga. Bı´mid ag brath go ge´ar ar a´r gcultu´ r leis cheist ce´nfa´th nach bhfuil an oiread sin daoine an aitheantas ceart a chur os comhair an ag teacht amach as na scoileanna le Gaeilge — nı´ domhain. Nı´l aon ghne´ den chultu´ rnı´os ar bhonn costais. Measaim nach bhfuil go leor ta´bhachtaı´ na´ an teanga. Ba cheart go mbeadh se´ airgid a´ chaitheamh, ach is e´ an fhadhb ata´ ann mar aidhm ag gach polaiteoir tacaı´ocht a na´ conas is fe´idir linn an u´ sa´id is fearr a bhaint as thabhairt ar gach e´inne ar fud na tı´re ata´ ag an airgead sin. Is e´ ceann de na fadhbanna ata´ de´anamh iarrachta an Ghaeilge a chur os a´r ann faoi la´thair na´ nach bhfuil airgead curtha ar gcomhair agus an Ghaeilge a chur chun cinn. Ta´ leataobh chun cuidiu´ le mu´ ineadh na Gaeilge sna siad ann le fada ata´ ag ra´ go bhfuil an Ghaeilge scoileanna sa Roinn Oideachais agus Eolaı´ochta. ag fa´il ba´is. Ta´ a´thas orm nach bhfuil sin fı´or ar Ca´ bhfuil an t-airgead seo? Ca´ bhfuil an bunta´iste chor ar bith. Ta´ suim faoi leith ag a´r muintir agus ar cho´ ir do´ a bheith ann do´ ibh siu´ d ata´ ag cur na ag daoine o´ ga sna Gaelscoileanna, fiu´ i mBe´al prı´omhtheanga na´isiu´ nta chun cinn sna Feirste. Bhı´ me´ ag cruinniu´ in Inis Sciortha mı´ scoileanna? Ta´ dearcadh agam maidir le o´ shin agus bhı´ tuismitheoirı´ ansin ag de´anamh mu´ ineadh na Gaeilge. Ba cho´ ir du´ inn bheith ag iarrachta an che´ad mea´nscoil la´n-Ghaelach a chur mu´ ineadh labhairt na Gaeilge ar dtu´ s agus ansin, ar bun i Loch Garman. Bhı´ ionadh orm go raibh ina dhiaidh sin, dı´riu´ isteach ar an ghramadach, trian de na tuismitheoirı´ sin rugtha taobh amuigh an litrı´ocht, agus an scrı´obh. Nuair a d’fhoghlaim den tı´r. Ma´ ta´ sin mar aidhm ag daoine na´r me´ Be´arla agus Gaeilge, d’fhoghlaim me´ an rugadh anseo go mbeidh a bpa´istı´ in ann Gaeilge fhoclaı´ocht ar dtu´ s, agus tha´inig an ghramadach a labhairt. Ta´ se´ ta´bhachtach sta´das oifigiu´ il a agus mar sin de ina dhiaidh sin. bhaint amach don Ghaeilge san Aontas Eorpaigh. O´ thaobh an Achta seo, is trua e´ gur seo an Bhı´ a´thas orm inniu a le´igh i The Irish Times an t-aon am a bhı´onn dı´ospo´ ireacht againn ata´ go t-alt ag Denis Staunton nuair a deir se´: hiomla´n i nGaeilge. Tre´aslaı´m leis an Aire Dlı´ Irish has moved a step closer to becoming an agus Cirt, Comhionannais agus Athcho´ irithe Dlı´, official and working language of the European an Teachta McDowell, mar is eisean an t-aon Union after a meeting of EU ambassadors Aire i mbliana a thosaigh an Dara Ce´im de showed broad support for the proposal. Irish reachtaı´ocht agus a labhair go huile is go hiomla´n officials are now confident of securing within 1717 Irish Language: 23 March 2005. Statements 1718

weeks the unanimous approval of all member imithe go deo. Is trago´ id sin da´r bpla´ine´ad agus states that is needed to change the language’s don chine daonna. status. Is ceist cosu´ il leis seo´ ı ceist na teanga. Ta´ Cabhro´ idh an sta´das oifigiu´ il sin le daoine ata´ ag teanga agus cumas labhartha a fhorbairt le 2 iarraidh athbheocha´n a chothu´ . Bhı´ me´ pa´irteach mhilliu´ n bliain, de re´ir saineolaithe, agus ta´ a i ndı´ospo´ ireacht in Ollscoil Bhaile A´ tha Cliath fhios acu go bhfuil daoine in inmhe caint le cu´ pla ansin agus bhı´ mic le´inn a ra´ na´r cheart 100,000 bliain. Te´ann a´r dteanga siar chomh fada airgead a chaitheamh ar cheist na teanga. Nı´ gha´ sin. Is rud an-saibhir e´ seo gur cheart du´ inn a ara´ na´r aontaigh me´ leo. Ta´ se´ an ta´bhachtach chaomhnu´ .Ta´ stair na tre´ibhe, na tı´re agus an nı´os mo´ airgead a chaitheamh, ar na daonra gur leo an teanga in achan teanga. Ta´ mea´nscoileanna go speisialta. Ta´ Gaelscoileanna traidisiu´ n ag baint leis an teanga. Ta´ rian na staire i Loch Garman ach nı´l aon mhea´nscoil la´n- sa teanga, agus ta´ se´ deacair i nda´irı´re a´r stair a Ghaelach. thuiscint i gceart gan aitheantas e´igin a thabhairt Molaim an sa´r-obair ata´ idir la´imhe ag TG4. do—no´ eolas e´igin a bheith ag duine ar — Tuigeann se´ go bhfuil suim faoi leith ag muintir theanga na Gaoluinne. Ta´ se´ nı´os fusa, da´ bhrı´ na hE´ ireann i rudaı´ na´r chuir RTE´ speis iontu le sin, tuiscint a bheith againn ar cad as a fada. Baineann daoine an-taitneamh as bheith ag dta´ngamar, ce´n saghas daoine muid, agus cad as fe´achaint ar TG4 ar chluichı´ a imrı´odh na blianta a bhfuil muintir na tı´re seo de´anta suas le heolas o´ shin sa CLG. ar an teanga. Bhı´ suim agam sa mhe´idadu´ irt an Teachta O´ Nuair ata´ eolaithe ag de´anamh staide´ir ar staid Snodaigh faoi mhu´ ineadh na Gaeilge. Le fada, fhisiciu´ il an domhain, fe´achann siad ar cuireadh iomarca be´im ar ghramadach agus bhı´ sheanchna´mhacha, seanfhothrach, seanchaislea´in na´ire orainn nach raibh compo´ rdach ag labhairt agus mar sin de, agus foghlaimı´onn siad uathu. Sa na Gaeilge. Caithfimid an Gaeilge a tabhairt chuma che´anna, is fe´idir linn an-chuid a amach o´ na scoileanna sa do´ igh is nach mbeidh fhoghlaim faoina´r staid agus daoine fe´in trı´ eolas na´ire ar dhaoine nach bhfuil lı´ofa sa teanga. Ta´ a bheith againn ar an nGaoluinn agus trı´ staide´ar daoine in E´ irinn ag foghlaim teangacha ar no´ s na Gaoluinne sna mea´nscoileanna agus a leithe´id. Fraincı´se, Spa´innı´se agus Gearma´inı´se ach gan Nı´ theastaı´onn uaimse go mbeadh an teanga mar bheith lı´ofa iontu. iarsma marbh cosu´ il le seanfhothrach no´ a Ta´ seanfhocal ann, “mol an o´ ige agus tiocfaidh leithe´id ach go mbeadh sı´ beo agus ag dul o´ sı´”. Ta´ se´ an-ta´bhachtach an moladh ceart a ghlu´ in go glu´ in. thabhairt don o´ ige ata´ ag iarraidh a´r dteanga a To´ gaimis sampla an-simplı´ ar fad: labhairt agus a chur in iu´ ldo´ ibh go mbraithreann logainmneacha na tı´re. Tagann formho´ r aitheantas na´isiu´ nta ar an dteanga. logainmneacha na tı´re seo o´ n Ghaoluinn, agus ta´ se´ sin fı´or o´ cheartla´r Bhe´al Feirste siar go Du´ n Mr. J. Higgins: Ta´ se´ ta´bhachtach go mbeadh Chaoin. I mo thuairim, ta´ se´ i bhfad nı´os simplı´ focail le ra´ ag daoine faoin a´bhar ta´bhachtach stair agus traidisiu´ nnaha´ite a thuiscint le tuiscint seo. Da´ mbeadh nı´os mo´ ama agam le e´igin ar an Ghaoluinn, fiu´ amha´in muna bhfuil smoaoineamh nı´os mo´ ar an sce´al ata´ faoi lı´ofacht ag duine ach amha´in eolas e´igin. Bı´onn chaibidil inniu ach ta´ an-chuid rudaı´ ag tarlu´ sa se´ in aigne daoine go mo´ r. Teastaı´onn uathu go saol polaitı´ochta agus caithfidh Teachtaı´ Da´la mbeadh an t-eolas seo acu — buneolas ar a gno´ itheacha coimea´d suas leo. laghad — ar an dteanga. B’fhe´idir nach mbeidı´s Nı´l aon dabht ach go bhfuil an Ghaeilge mar lı´ofa go leor chun ı´ a labhairt, ach d’fhe´adfaidı´s teanga faoi dian-bhru´ ila´thair na huaire. Is tuiscint a bheith acu ar stair, logainmneacha agus todhchaı´ na teangan ata´ i gceist againn. Sı´ an a leithe´id. Cinnte, ta´ se´ soile´ir le 20 bliain anuas cheist bunu´ sach na´ an mairfidh an teanga. An anois leis an mborradh a tha´inig ar an cho´ ras mbeidh daoine sa tı´r seo ag labhairt na Gaeilge i scolaı´ochta trı´ Ghaoluinn — bunscolaı´ocht agus gceann 100 bliana? Nı´l dabht i m’aigne na´ go ansin mea´nscolaı´ocht la´n-Ghaoluinne — go mbeadh se´ mar thrago´ id uafa´sach da´ gcaillfı´ an bhfuil an-e´ileamh o´ thuismitheoirı´ agus leanaı´ go teanga du´ chas. Ta´ mionteangacha ag fa´il ba´is mbeidı´sa´balta dul go dtı´ a leithe´id de scoil agus mo´ rthimpeall an domhain. Nuair a deirimid an teanga a bheith acu ina dhiaidh sin. mionteangacha nı´ chiallaimid nach dteangacha Deir an Coimisine´ir Teanga go bhfuil ta´bhachtacha iad ach go bhfuil mionlach a´ infheistı´ocht an-mhor — b’fhe´idir \500 milliu´ nin labhairt. Is trago´ id do dhaonra an domhain uile aghaidh na bliana — a´ cur isteach sa teanga. Deir nuair a tharlaı´onn sin. se´ go mb’fhe´idir go gcaitheann scola´irı´ 1,500 uair Ta´ deireadh a chur le nithe ta´bhachtacha sa trı´ 13 bliana ag foghlaim na teanga ar scoil gan nadu´ r ina´r bpla´ine´adila´thair na huaire. Ta´ lı´ofacht bhunu´ sach a bheith acu i ndiaidh na plandaı´ sna foraiseacha, mı´olra agus ainmhithe ag hinfheistı´ochta agus an ama u´ d. Caithfimid fa´il ba´is mar gheall ar athru´ atmaisfe´ir no´ na iniu´ chadh a dhe´anamh ar an sce´al seo, mar ta´ an foraoiseacha a bheith gearrtha. O´ n gcomhthe´acs toil ann i measc an-chuid daoine an teanga a ina tha´inig chun tosaigh sa domhan, ta´ athraithe fhoghlaim. Caithfimid iniu´ chadh a dhe´anamh ar chomh mo´ r sin nach fe´idir leo a mhaireachta´il. Ta´ na modhanna a nde´antar scolaı´ocht agus a siad imithe go deo agus de thoradh air sin ta´ nithe mu´ intear an Ghaoluinn trı´othu. Le hinfheistı´ocht, ag imeacht a bhı´ beo a tho´ g na milliu´ n blianta achmhainnı´ocht agus am den so´ rt sin, ba cheart d’eabhlo´ id chun teacht i gcrı´ch agus ansin ta´ siad go mbeadh eolas i bhfad nı´ ba leithne agus nı´ ba 1719 Fur Farming (Prohibition) Bill 2004: 23 March 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 1720

[Mr. J. Higgins.] an Ghaoluinn acu. Mar sin fe´in, measaim go dhaingne ag leanaı´ ag teacht amach as na bhfuil pointe anseo ata´ an-ta´bhachtach, agus scoileanna. Ta´ se´ ta´bhachtach go nde´anfaı´ e´ sin. caithfimid nı´os mo´ dı´ospo´ ireachta a bheith againn Cabhraı´onn se´ seo an-chuid le daoine. Ta´ me´ faoi conas an Ghaoluinn a choimea´dsa fe´in i bhfabhar an rogha a thabhairt do dhaoine Ghaeltacht. agus leanaı´ chomh maith ce´ acu an dteastaı´onn uathu an Ghaoluinn a fhoghlaim no´ nach Acting Chairman (Mr. Sherlock): Ta´ no´ ime´ad dteastaı´onn uathu. Ta´ se´ mar chabhair an-mho´ r amha´in fa´gtha ag an Teachta, ach te´ se´ 7 p.m. do leanaı´ agus daoine o´ ga go bhfuil an Ghaoluinn anois. a´ foghlaim acu o´ namo´ bhı´odar an-o´ glego mbeidı´sda´theangach. Ta´ aithne phearsanta agam Debate adjourned. fe´in air seo go gcabhraı´onn an da´theangachas le duine nuair a ta´ se´ ag iarraidh an trı´u´ agus an Private Members’ Business. ceathru´ teanga a fhoghlaim. Ma´ ta´ da´theangachas ag leanaı´ ina´r mbunscoileanna, nuair a thagann ———— siad chun Fraincis, Gearma´inis no´ Spa´innis a labhairt, beidh se´ i bhfad nı´os fusa do´ ibh na Fur Farming (Prohibition) Bill 2004: Second teangacha sin a labhairt, mar go mbeidh Stage (Resumed). solu´ bthacht teanga agus aigne acu. Is tı´r dha´theangach ı´ ata´ againne anseo — Question again proposed: “That the Bill be Be´arla agus Gaoluinn — agus ta´ se´ ta´bhachtach now read a Second Time.” ara´ nach bhfuil daoine a labhraı´onn Be´arla amha´in nı´os lu´ in aon slı´ na´ iadsan ata´ Minister of State at the Department of Agri- da´theangach. Bhı´ daoine a´irithe a bheadh ag culture and Food (Mr. B. Smith): I wish to share labhairt Gaoluinne le fada a bhfuil meon acu go my time with Deputies Moloney and Ellis. bhfuil daoine nach bhfuil lı´ofa sa Ghaoluinn saghas leath-Ghaelach in ionad a bheith la´n- Acting Chairman: Is that agreed? Agreed. Ghaelach. De´anann se´ sin an-dama´iste don teanga fe´in, agus ba cheart go gcuirfı´ deireadh Mr. B. Smith: Following on from last night’s lena leithe´id de smaoineamh agus, uaireanta, a debate on this Private Member’s Bill I reiterate leithe´id de chaint. the position my colleague Deputy Browne out- Molaim na mea´in chumarsa´ide i nGaoluinn. lined in this House yesterday that the Dhein Raidı´o na Gaeltachta e´acht leis na blianta 7 o’clock Government is opposed at this time fada maidir leis an Ghaoluinn. Rinne foireann to the introduction of a ban on fur Raidı´o na Gaeltachta e´acht leis na modhanna a farming. The Minister of State, Deputy Browne, u´ sa´idtear chun nuacht a´itiu´ il a chur os a´r has clearly made the case that fur farming is a gcomhair amach le go mbeadh fonn orainn — legitimate farming activity here and throughout de´anaim fe´in gach la´ e´,ma´sfe´idir liom — the vast majority of our fellow member states in e´isteacht isteach ar an sta´isiu´ n le haghaidh the European Union, including Sweden. That country was mentioned last night and officials in nuachta, nuacht a´itiu´ il san a´ireamh, ce´ acu o´ the Department have confirmed this to be the Bhaile A´ tha Cliath no´ o´ Chorca Dhuibhne. Ta´ case with the Swedish authorities today. TG4 mar an gce´anna. Nı´l ach cu´ pla no´ ime´ad fa´gtha agam. Ta´ Mr. Boyle: What about the UK? What about dı´ospo´ ireacht ann anois agus an-chonspo´ id faoi Northern Ireland? They are our nearest riail a´irithe a thabhairt isteach i gcuid de na neighbours. Gaeltachtaı´ go gcuirfı´ iachall ar dhaoine ata´ ag ceannacht tithe sna Gaeltachtaı´ eolas a bheith acu Mr. B. Smith: I am talking of Sweden. There ar an Ghaoluinn. Ta´ an-fhearg ar dhaoine a´irithe was some misapprehension last night. There was agus go mo´ rmho´ r ar na boic mho´ ra agus an lucht an indication that Sweden was not in the same to´ ga´la faoi seo. Ta´im an-bha´u´ il leis an riail sin. position as this country. Ba mhaith liom nı´ ba mho´ smaoinimh agus dı´ospo´ ireachta, ach measaim, ma´s rud e´ go Mr. Boyle: It has banned fox fur. dto´ gfar an-chuid tithe sa Ghaeltacht agus go gceanno´ far na tithe sin le daoine nach bhfuil focal Mr. B. Smith: Officials in the Department took Gaoluinne acu, go nde´anann se´ sin an-dama´iste the opportunity today to check the matter with don chultu´ r agus do labhairt na Gaoluinne sna the Swedish authorities and the position as out- ceantair u´ d. Dı´reach faoi mar a thagann an t- lined was confirmed. impiriu´ lachas stairiu´ il isteach i dtı´r agus go We have here a specific requirement under the loiteann se´ an teanga, ta´ an oiread sin bru´ anois Musk Rats Act, 1933, and the Musk Rats Act, ar an Ghaoluinn go bhfuil an da´inse´ar ann go 1933 (Application to Mink Order) 1965. Under gcaillfear an teanga, agus measaim go bhfuil se´ the Musk Rats Act, 1933 (Application to Mink ceart an Ghaoluinn a chaomhnu´ trı´ mhodhanna Order) 1965, the keeping of mink is prohibited den saghas seo. Ba bhrea´ liom nı´ ba mho´ except under licence from my Department. dı´ospo´ ireachta faoi sin, mar nı´ theastaı´onn uaim Licences have a duration of not more than one bheith ag caitheamh anuas ar dhaoine nach bhfuil year at which point they must be renewed. 1721 Fur Farming (Prohibition) Bill 2004: 23 March 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 1722

Licences are issued under this legislation only if Mr. B. Smith: The sheds provide normal tem- the applicant, following an inspection, is found to perature and light conditions while protecting be fully compliant with a number of key against direct sunlight, wind and rain. Wire cages conditions. are placed in rows in the sheds. The cages are In the course of yesterday evening’s debate on raised off the ground to ensure good hygiene. In this matter, some Deputies expressed concern mink farming, year-round nest boxes bedded with about the potential risks fur farms might pose to straw or wood shavings are located adjacent to the surrounding areas. I reassure Deputies that each holding cage. the terms and conditions for obtaining a licence to operate a mink farm require that mink shall be Mr. Boyle: Sounds like Heaven. kept only at the premises specified in the licence; mink shall be kept in cages or other containers of Mr. B. Smith: The nest boxes are provided for such material and constructed in such a manner breeding purposes and to ensure that farmed as to prevent their escape; buildings or parts of mink can sleep and rest in comfortable con- buildings used for the keeping of mink shall be ditions. Research has shown that the provision of constructed in such a manner or enclosed by such a nesting box, which is now standard in mink pro- material as would in the opinion of the authorised duction, is of great importance to the welfare of officer prevent the escape of mink; the licence farmed mink. holder shall ensure that trees, shrubs and under- Mink kits remain in the same cage as their growth are not growing or planted in such a posi- mothers until weaned at the age of seven to eight tion in relation to the guard fence as would in weeks. After that the female breeding mink are the opinion of the authorised officer render the kept singly in their cages from January until early escape of mink possible; any drainage channels May when the kits are born while the weaned ani- on such licensed premises shall be adequately mals are housed in little groups of two or three guarded to prevent the escape of mink; licence through their growth period, and only breeding holders must inform persons to whom they dis- males, selected among the mature animals late in pose of mink of the need for a licence to keep the autumn, are housed separately. Non-breeding them; the Department must be informed if mink cease to be kept at any premises covered by this mature animals are killed quickly and humanely licence and of any change in ownership; author- in compliance with the Sixth Schedule of the ised officers must be allowed to inspect the prem- European Communities (Protection of Animals ises at all reasonable times; if any mink escape, at time of Slaughter) Regulations, 1995. Slaughter the Department must be informed at once; and is carried out on farm, thereby minimising the a licence is issued subject to compliance with all need for stressful transport. The diet fed to mink relevant legislation. Failure to comply with all rel- on fur farms is high in nutrients and may have evant legislation and/or any of the conditions of added mineral and vitamin supplements to ensure a licence may result in the licence being revoked. ideal nutrition levels are provided to maintain good health and well-being. Clean water is avail- Mr. Boyle: Like Waterville? able to the mink at all times. The majority of European fur is sold through Mr. B. Smith: Environmental problems arising the two largest auction houses in Copenhagen in from wild mink come within the remit of the Denmark and Helsinki in Finland. There, supply national park and wildlife services. My Depart- and demand meet and try to strike a balance. Fur ment places the utmost priority on animal health farmers must operate and compete within a glo- and welfare not alone in relation to animals bal free market setting. The fur market is not pro- farmed for their fur but across the entire spec- tected by government intervention. Important trum. Fur farmers also have a vested interest in markets for fur garments include North America, keeping their animals healthy and content and I China, Germany, Italy, Japan, Korea, Russia, disagree with some suggestions in last night’s Scandinavia and Spain. debate and state my belief that the conditions of Last night Deputies made a number of specific an animal’s coat is a key indicator of its well- points and I will refer briefly to some of the issues being. The present housing systems used in the raised. Deputy Boyle made the point that fur rearing of mink have evolved through research farming is a nascent industry in Ireland. I could and practical experience over many generations not agree with this assessment. of animals on farms. Mink are generally housed in sheds four metres Mr. Boyle: There are just six farms. wide. These sheds are naturally aerated and open-sided with roofing panels. Mr. B. Smith: Fur farming is a long established industry and in its present structure has existed in Mr. Sargent: That is wrong. It is incorrect. Ireland for nearly 40 years. Deputy Cuffe com- mented, as did Deputy Ferris, that the legislation Mr. B. Smith: It is not incorrect. governing this area is 70 years old. While the Musk Rats Act dates from 1933, the application Acting Chairman: The Minister of State with- of that Act to mink, on which the licensing system out interruption. is based, is in place since 1965. Other important 1723 Fur Farming (Prohibition) Bill 2004: 23 March 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 1724

[Mr. B. Smith.] employment. My information indicates much legislation governing this area from the welfare more significant levels of employment than those point of view is much more recent. mentioned by some Opposition Deputies in last Deputy Ferris and others referred to mink night’s debate, although numbers vary according escaping from farms and causing considerable to the time of the year. While Central Statistics damage to the environment. The situation in Office figures indicate exports of fur pelts mink farming establishments is significantly amounting to a value of \1.9 million in 2004, different than it was in the past. Deputies must also consider that these enterprises would be significant purchasers of Mr. Boyle: It has happened. It happened in consumables such as meal, transport, engineering Waterville. and construction. The Department of Agriculture and Food has Mr. B. Smith: Deputy Boyle had his oppor- statutory responsibility for the welfare and pro- tunity to contribute last night. I want to make my tection of farmed animals through the Protection contribution. There should be such democracy in of Animals kept for Farming Purposes Act 1984 this House that people are allowed to make and the European Communities (Protection of their contribution. Animals kept for Farming Purposes) Regulations 2000, SI 127 of 2000. In addition, the Council of Mr. Boyle: The Minister of State should refer Europe has made recommendations regarding to the escapes that occurred. animals kept for fur farming. The regulations pro- tecting animals kept for farming purposes are a An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: The Minister of general part of animal welfare legislation and State, without interruption. apply to many types of farming systems, including cattle, sheep and pigs as well as the animals kept Mr. B. Smith: I do not think Deputy Boyle has on fur farms. control of the House to decide who will speak. The on-farm welfare inspections carried out by Deputy Ferris and others referred to mink escap- the Department veterinary inspectors include ing from farms and causing considerable damage assessment of the animals, the facilities provided to the environment. The situation in mink farm- and the management practices employed. ing establishments is significantly different than it Officials from my Department carry out ongoing was in the past. The current operations are mod- veterinary inspections at fur farms. In the course ern which are largely escape proof units which of these inspections they carry out a limited ran- developed following the introduction of the 1965 dom examination of cage sizes which indicate that order are in marked contrast to the small scale the fur farms are generally complying with the units which were the norm until the industry was Council of Europe recommendations for mini- brought under statutory control. mum space allowances for fur animals. The farms There is no evidence to support the claim made are engaged in a process of achieving the targets by Deputy Cowley that following the introduc- required by 2010. With regard to mink, the cur- tion of the ban on fur farming in the UK, the rent Council of Europe recommended minimum industry had moved over here. There were no space allowance is a free area of more than 1600 such farms in Northern Ireland at the time the cm2 and a height greater than 35 cm. These must ban was introduced and there is no evidence of be replaced with a system involving new UK fur farms setting up operations here. enhanced space dimensions by 31 December I do not agree either with the comments made 2010. by Deputy Twomey that this is an alternative industry that has failed here. These farms have It is the obligation of the owner or person in been operating for up to 40 years in some cases, charge of the animals to ensure that the slaughter trading profitably and providing employment in of fur animals is carried out in accordance with some of the most disadvantaged areas of the national and European legislation. The methods country. that can be used for slaughtering fur animals on Coming, as I do, from an area in the Border, these farms are laid down in SI 114 of 1995, pro- midlands and west region, I cannot agree with tection of animals at time of slaughter regu- some speakers who suggested that the contri- lations. The slaughter methods employed in the bution of fur farming is insignificant. On the con- fur farming industry in Ireland include inhalation trary, all forms of legitimate economic activity, no by gas, electrocution and lethal injection. The matter how small, are important to this small specific technical parameters for these methods open economy. There is a body of opinion that are detailed in the legislation. suggests that enterprises such as fur farms, which The Council of Europe has made recommend- receive no subsidy from the State and have ations indicating an awareness of the basic invested significant amounts of capital in their requirements for the health and welfare of internal infrastructure and facilities, are very farmed fur animals at European level. These have important. focused primarily on good husbandry and stock- Small industry is the lifeblood of rural Ireland. manship and protection against adverse climatic It must be recognised that these fur farms provide conditions, injury, infestation and disease or valuable full-time, part-time and seasonal behavioural disorders. 1725 Fur Farming (Prohibition) Bill 2004: 23 March 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 1726

The recommendations acknowledge the Mr. Moloney: This issue excites the Deputy but necessity to encourage further research on the it does not excite me. I only wish to acknowledge welfare of fur animals and that these recommend- the legislation. ations should be reviewed in the light of new scientific research. In addition, recommendations Mr. Boyle: The Deputy should quote the cor- are laid down which include stockmanship, hous- rect figure. ing, management, slaughter methods and Mr. Moloney: I stand over \4 million. Is there research requirements. a farm near Deputy Boyle’s home? I am satisfied that there is an appropriate regu- latory regime in place to ensure the welfare and Mr. Boyle: One-third of my constituency is protection of animals farmed for their fur. I also rural. believe that Irish fur farmers are committed to ensuring the well-being of the animals under their Mr. Moloney: I am satisfied there is no point care, as well they might. As entrepreneurs, they building up a head to steam to denigrate the are acutely aware that to thrive and succeed they industry, given what is happening on the ground must adhere to best practice in the industry. Irish on farms. fur breeders are members of the European Fur I refer to the basic economic precepts of the Breeders Association, EFBA, an umbrella group laws of supply and demand. There is strong evi- for fur breeders in 15 countries. The EFBA has dence to support the argument that there is a introduced a code of practice for the handling of strong, increasing demand for fur as a fashion farmed mink. This reflects the recommendation item worldwide. A vibrant fur production indus- from the Council of Europe. Irish fur breeders try in Europe seeks to meet this demand and that have committed themselves to follow these con- cannot be contradicted. ditions although they have not yet been adopted Mr. Sargent: There is also demand for slavery. into law. Fur is a commodity that Irish fur breed- ers can produce under conditions which meet Mr. Moloney: Slavery was abolished in Ireland national and EU requirements and for which years ago. there is clearly an international demand. The contribution by Deputy Hayes demon- Mr. Sargent: No, it was not. strates clearly the significant divergence of views among some of the Opposition parties. We heard Mr. Moloney: The two issues cannot be from two parties that aspire to participating in a compared. multi-party Government. Deputy Hayes outlined I cannot understand why we, as legislators, clearly his alarm and concern about what he would seek to prohibit Irish fur farmers from seiz- termed the agenda behind this debate. ing on the business opportunity that exists for them on the world stage, particularly when they Mr. Moloney: I support the Minister of State comply with the Department’s regulations. The on the basis of first-hand observations of the domestic fur industry is well regulated. The Mini- industry in my home county. These observations ster outlined that officials from her Department reflect the operation of the industry on other regularly inspect licensed fur farms and she referred to the willingness demonstrated by the farms throughout the country. The industry is management of these farms to comply with all well regulated locally and nationally and the regulations. undergoes regular departmental inspections. All fur farm operators are members of the Irish Local opinion is the best record of the running Fur Breeders Association, which, in turn, is affili- of such farms. Heffernan’s of Vicarstown in Laois ated to the European Fur Breeders Association, employs 26 full-time people. People living in the EFBA, an umbrella organisation for fur breeders locality, many of whom are interested in animal in 15 European countries. These organisations welfare, have attested to me, during phone calls I consistently advocate and promote the adoption have made over recent days to find out local of best practice within the industry by their opinion, that the regulations are applied on this members. The EFBA has introduced its own farm and it is always open to inspection. They are code of practice for care and handling of farmed prepared to go on the record and say the regu- mink in Europe. AlI members of the EFBA have lations apply in Ireland and they are always open adopted this code and Irish fur breeders have to inspection. If that is the case, we should recog- committed themselves to follow these conditions. nise the industry for what is it. It is also important The conditions under which fur animals are to recognise the value of the industry not only to reared have continually been improved through local economies but to the national economy. The ongoing research. The EFBA and its member industry’s turnover is approximately \4 million countries have a long history of encouraging annually. scientific research into animal welfare related to fur breeding. The EFBA seeks to secure a future Mr. Boyle: It is \1.9 million, according to the for farming by matching human, animal, environ- mental and societal needs in a sustainable way, Minister of State. thus strengthening the position of European fur 1727 Fur Farming (Prohibition) Bill 2004: 23 March 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 1728

[Mr. Moloney.] ing sector. However, I am satisfied this is not the farmers as world leaders in this respect. Irish fur case. Two Ministers have stated this is a well breeders are world leaders—— regulated sector, which is welcome. If the indus- try was not properly regulated, the Department Mr. Boyle: One-thirtieth of 1% is tiny. would not support it. Fur is a globally traded product. Six licensed Mr. Moloney: If Deputy Boyle had his way, we fur farms operate in Ireland under the ongoing would lead in absolutely nothing. We are back to supervision of the Department of Agriculture and the issue of live exports and the detrimental effect Food. Can Deputy Boyle and his colleagues who of Green Party policy if its members had their tabled the motion inform the House about con- way. Thankfully, the party is not in power and it ditions in the fur farming industry in other parts is not heading in that direction. of the world, particularly those that are less well Domestic fur breeders have every incentive to off? look after their animals by applying the best ani- mal husbandry and welfare standards. Animals Mr. Boyle: There is no fur farming in the UK. farmed for their fur in Ireland are selectively bred, well nourished, housed and cared for. Mr. Ellis: Both Ministers of State at the Department have outlined how the licensing Mr. Sargent: They are privileged. system administered by the Department of Agri- culture and Food involves annual inspections Mr. Moloney: Unlike Green Party Members, covering animal health and welfare, inspections they are also well mannered. Why on earth would of the facilities and compliance with slaughter we wish to prohibit these people from earning a criteria. Deputy Brendan Smith stated the living? Fur farmers do not seek a subsidy or other methods used to slaughter animals are most form of financial assistance and we should not humane and are comparable to those used by vet- stand in their way. erinary practitioners when they put down farm The Bill must be voted down because to do animals. They often use lethal injection to do so. otherwise is tantamount to transferring this econ- We have also received reassurances that the omically viable industry to other fur producing Department inspects fur farms to ensure they are countries with less stringent regulatory systems. sufficiently secured to guard against the escape of This would take place at great cost to the animals, mink, thereby, defending the interest of contigu- the entrepreneurs who operate these businesses ous agricultural enterprises. There is a problem in Ireland, their hard working and experienced in a number of areas where mink were let go from employees and, last but not least, the economy. farms in Northern Ireland. There is no rush on the part of animal welfare groupings to establish replacement industries to Mr. Boyle: What about Waterville, County fill the void resulting from this legislation to close Kerry? all fur farms. The Bill is not needed and it should be voted down because it serves no useful Mr. Ellis: I am not worried about County Kerry purpose. but mink, which escaped from a farm in Northern Ireland a few years ago, are creating havoc on the Mr. Ellis: I wish to correct the record. The Shannon-Erne waterway. Minister of State said the value of pelts exported is \1.9 million. Mr. Boyle: They are banned in Northern Ireland. Mr. Boyle: That is the industry’s turnover. Mr. Ellis: There were fur farms in the North Mr. Ellis: The Deputy tried to shout down but the Deputy has not been around long enough Deputy Moloney on the basis that he was telling to know that. lies. Every Member will agree the deliberate release of mink from a licensed mink farm is an illegal Mr. Boyle: I can be louder. action, which cannot be condoned on any basis. I have outlined why such farms should be con- Mr. Ellis: Deputy Moloney is correct, the trolled. However, it must be remembered fur industry’s annual turnover is \4 million. farms are engaged in a legitimate enterprise. The operators must be to allowed to earn a living and Mr. Boyle: That is not the CSO figure. to provide much needed employment in rural areas. For example, Deputy Moloney stated one Mr. Ellis: It is time Members took a reality fur farm provides 20 jobs in his constituency, check. There is much misinformation in circu- which is important to the local economy. lation about the topic of fur farming, that all of us Farmed mink have adapted to their envir- receive regularly in the post. The use of emotive onment and farming systems have evolved to language and the subjectivity employed when dis- meet the animal’s needs. These systems provide cussing this topic detract from the facts and the high standards of animal welfare, housing, hus- discussion. It has been alleged during the debate bandry methods and disease control. If proper that cruel practices are employed in the fur farm- disease control was not place, the finances of fur 1729 Fur Farming (Prohibition) Bill 2004: 23 March 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 1730 farms would be out the door. Research results Food and Rural Development in Ireland. Its con- have been incorporated into farm practices to clusions could not have been clearer. Current benefit animals farmed for their fur through husbandry systems cause serious problems for all improvements in housing, disease prevention, species of animals reared for fur. That is nutrition, husbandry, breeding and selection. We unequivocal in terms of its commentary on the must have a reality check and realise that fur animal welfare aspects of this practice. farming is a business. If that business were to be Against that background I was very disap- ended by way of legislation passed in this House, pointed to hear the Minister of State last night I have no doubt the next legislation the Green vigorously defend the intensive farming of ani- Party would bring forward would be to ban live mals for their fur, and he outlined in some detail cattle shipping, which it has said it wants to the various Acts that refer. The Minister acknow- introduce. ledged that there is no legislation to oversee fox farming. Admittedly, it appears there is only one Mr. Sargent: We will not do that. fox farm in the country but since there is no need for licensing, I am not sure we can have confi- Mr. Ellis: Deputy Boyle is shaking his head. I dence in that statistic. While I believe it to be the regularly get letters, tapes and books from Mary- case, the fact that no licensing is required for fox Anne Bartlett, who wants an end to live cattle farming is interesting. shipping. The Minister also stated that animals must be Mr. Boyle: That is not the Green Party. That is cared for by a sufficient number of staff who pos- another organisation. sess the appropriate ability, knowledge and pro- fessional competence. What criteria are in place Mr. Ellis: What the Green Party proposes is the to monitor the knowledge and ability of those thin end of the wedge because it has no interest who run fur farms? It was mentioned a number in fur farming, other than to try to create a mech- of times in the debate that the inspections are car- anism by which it can bring legislation before the ried out on a regular basis but what does “regular House to prevent the shipping of live cattle from basis” mean? this country. This Bill should be voted down The Bill before the House seeks to prohibit the because it will have a detrimental effect on the cruel exploitation of what are essentially wild ani- farming industry. mals for an unnecessary luxury item. The objec- tive is straightforward and simple. It is to prevent Dr. Upton: I welcome the opportunity to speak unnecessary cruelty to animals. Our current law on this Private Members’ Bill. I support the Bill. permits farming of mink and fox for their fur or I am intrigued by the response from all the their pelt in the case of rabbits. None of the prod- Government speakers. They addressed this issue ucts derived from the animals farmed under entirely on economic grounds. Those economic restricted space are necessary for our well-being grounds are of the order of approximately \4 and they have only a very limited impact on our million. The figure went from \1.5 million to \2 economy, an issue we addressed already. The fig- million to \4 million—— ure has increased from \1.5 million to \4 million. Fur farming has been illegal in Northern Mr. Naughten: Inflation. Ireland and Britain since January 2003. Other European countries, for example, Austria, have Dr. Upton: It happens overnight; I understand banned fur farming. Fox farming is being phased that. We are still talking about a relatively small out in Sweden and other countries are also con- amount of money, so small that the income from sidering a ban, including Italy and the Nether- fur farming does not appear in the agricultural lands. It is a matter for each country within the statistics. It does not reach the scale of being con- sidered important in the agricultural statistics. EU to introduce its own laws to permit or prevent Fur farming is the intensive breeding of essen- fur farming as long as they operate within the tially wild animals and because the animals have EU guidelines. to be bred intensively, they are kept in relatively The Minister referred to compliance with the small cages and are unable to exhibit their natural Council of Europe recommendations concerning behaviour. Every Member who spoke about this fur animals and the Council directive on keeping issue agrees on that. These animals are essentially animals for farming purposes. The slaughter wild and are now confined. They live relatively methods are also permitted under the Sixth short lives in some distress prior to being slaugh- Schedule of the European Communities’ regu- tered for their fur. That is a realistic summary of lations of 1995. I have no argument with the accu- what fur farming is about. racy of any of that but it gives me some cause The European Union’s Scientific Committee for concern when I examine the methods outlined on Animal Health and Animal Welfare, in earlier by the Minister. They are gaseous inha- December 2001 published the most comprehen- lation — for that we can substitute smothering; sive study of the subject. This prestigious group electrocution — a very unpleasant thought; and of scientists and veterinarians included a senior lethal injection, which would appear to be the member of staff of the Veterinary Research Lab- most humane of those methods. The facilities oratory, part of the Department of Agriculture, allowed for slaughtering of the animals, legal or 1731 Fur Farming (Prohibition) Bill 2004: 23 March 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 1732

[Dr. Upton.] area are alive and well and report in for duty otherwise, do not appear to be an attractive every now and again. option for animals that should be left in the wild. If the conditions and mortality rates described Commissioner Byrne on placing responsibility previously for both mink and foxes applied to for animal welfare with the EU said it is regularly large domestic animals such as cattle there would the case that member states want to “pass the be public outcry, and rightly so. buck” on this issue. He said: “The public should One argument against the banning of fur farm- be in a position where they can be confident that ing is the possible loss of employment and animals are treated humanely and that their income. We have identified the number of farms, elected representatives take the issue seriously”. which appears to be relatively small — six mink He further stated: farms and one fox farm. I understand the econ- omic turnover from that is quite small. Some con- The Commission’s role relates only to its sideration should be given to those engaged in legal powers and competence. We cannot the industry who would accrue losses if fur farm- ensure that animals are treated humanely ing is banned. When Deputy Boyle referred to throughout the EU. For a number of reasons such people last night, he accepted that it would — we do not have the resources, the powers or be reasonable and sensible to compensate them. the legitimacy to do so. It would be more practical to phase out the prac- Mink are essentially wild animals, not domesti- tice of fur farming than to immediately impose cated. They prefer to live alone in the wild and closure orders. they are territorial. They are semi-aquatic ani- I would like to discuss aspects of this debate mals with semi-webbed feed and therefore they which do not relate to economics. The Minister of like to spend their time in the water. It is imposs- State last evening and other speakers this evening ible for mink to be housed humanely in the con- showed little concern about mink escaping into ditions that have been described and for them to the wild. As someone who comes from a rural be given the opportunity to display their natural background, I am aware that mink have done a behaviour. great deal of damage in certain parts of the coun- The Bill also takes account of the fact that try, such as the west. breeding the animals and selling on the progeny As a Deputy said last night, it is important for with the intention of slaughter is also an offence. legislators to set standards for ourselves and for Basically, housing these animals under the con- the animals for which we are responsible. It is ditions that are normally associated with farming unacceptable to keep an animal in a small and would be considered an offence. barren cage simply to obtain an unnecessary lux- The EU Scientific Committee on Animal ury item. The conditions in which mink are Health and Animal Welfare states: farmed are influenced by the fashion market. The Bill deals with the cruel nature of the farming of With respect to the welfare of mink, the wild animals, which are the victims of fashion, report concluded that there is an average kit simply for their fur. Anybody who has seen the mortality of about 20% and a yearly adult mor- many video tapes and photographs which are tality of about 2-5%. Stereotypes, largely loco- available will accept that mink farming is not a motor in nature, are widespread on mink pleasant method of producing an unnecessary farms. In one study the number of affected ani- fashion item to which many alternatives are avail- mals varied between 31 and 85% of the females able. This industry does not produce any winners, on different farms. The report concluded that other than those who aspire to fashion for the typical mink cage impairs mink welfare fashion’s sake without any concern for animals because it does not provide for important which suffer in the making of fashion items. needs. It was mentioned last evening that the fur coat That is a European study that was set up with has historically been seen as a status symbol. I do representatives from the then Department of not wish to take from those who were lucky Agriculture, Food and Rural Development. enough to have owned and worn fur coats in the With respect to the welfare of foxes, the report past, when they were considered glamour items. concluded that there is an annual mortality rate Many people are unaware of the origins of such for juvenile and adult foxes on fox farms of about coats — they do not know about the conditions 5%. The report concluded that the typical fox under which animals were housed while their cage does not provide for the important needs of fashion items were being produced. I do not sug- foxes. In particular, it imposes monotony of the gest that such people should dump their expens- physical environment, restricts physical exercise ive fur coats, if they happen to have such gar- and specific behaviour such as digging. I am ments. However, I ask them to reflect and to lend happy to say that in suburban Dublin, where I their voices to the prohibition of the infliction of live, I can vouch for the need for foxes to dig. further cruelty on innocent animals. They have burrowed a number of very interesting It is interesting that the practice of breeding holes in my back garden but they are very attract- and farming animals for their fur, which is a lux- ive wildlife, and they are very welcome. That indi- ury item, was condemned in recent days by one cates, however, that having such animals in a cage of Ireland’s leading fashion designers, Paul is totally inappropriate. The three foxes in my Costelloe. Mr. Costelloe, who is a successful rep- 1733 Fur Farming (Prohibition) Bill 2004: 23 March 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 1734 resentative of Irish fashion at home and abroad, I referred to the methods of killing animals, sees no reason for this country to continue to which were set out in detail by the Minister in his allow people to engage in such activity. I found it speech. It is interesting that no qualification or interesting that he took the view that fur is an training seems to be required by those who unnecessary fashion item. slaughter animals. The presence of a veterinary The term “fur farming” might give the practitioner is not required. impression that animals are allowed to roam over I have concerns about the attitude of the open fields, but it might be more appropriate to Government and the Department of Agriculture refer to “fur farms” as “fur factories”. It is and Food in this regard. Parliamentary questions important to differentiate between the intensive have been asked and letters have been written by rearing of caged animals in cramped spaces in various groups about fur farming, but unsatisfac- which they cannot follow their natural instincts tory responses have been received. The Govern- for the purposes of acquiring a fashion item and ment has stated clearly that it does not plan to the accessing of a product such as leather that is ban fur farming in Ireland. It has strongly reiter- a by-product of food production. That distinction ated that stance over the last two evenings. The needs to be emphasised. One might reasonably Department of Agriculture and Food has said ask whether it is appropriate to rear chickens for that the expansion of fur farms is acceptable. It food in battery conditions, but that is a separate has indicated that there is just one fox farm in debate. We should revisit the conditions in which this country, as I said earlier. The lack of a poultry is intensively farmed so that we ensure requirement that fox farms be licensed indicates that they are as humane as possible. I do not that there is a lack of concern about what is going doubt that there is a strong economic argument on. I welcome the comment last night by the in favour of the farming of poultry for food. Minister of State, Deputy Browne, that he will Although that is a different argument, the con- address and examine this issue. That is a move in ditions should be as humane as possible. the right direction. I do not think it is acceptable to state that fur The Minister of State argued last night that a farmers should be given the opportunity to pro- ban on fur farming would lead to Ireland’s share vide more humane conditions for farming mink, of the fur market being assumed by another fur- for example. If that argument were valid, the pro- producing country. He said that the ban would vision of such facilities could and should have not serve any practical purpose for that reason. been done a long time ago. If it were acceptable As legislators, however, we have a responsibility to keep animals which are essentially wild in to ensure that the animal welfare standards and cages, the conditions for that could and would conditions in this country are above reproach. We have been put in place some time ago. Fur farm- cannot speak for or anticipate what other coun- ing is simply a business in which producers aim to generate the highest possible profit. tries might do, but we can make a strong state- ment on animal welfare and fur farming by giving The Bill is important for a reason other than a lead, even now, by prohibiting fur farming and the specific issue it addresses. It highlights the need to raise awareness of animal welfare issues setting out the animal welfare conditions which in general. We have had long and relatively fruit- concern us. ful discussions in the recent past on the conditions There is no good reason to continue the prac- required for the transport of farm animals. tice of fur farming in Ireland. It does not contrib- Serious issues need to be raised about humane ute significantly to the economy, it does not fea- means of transport. There is a need for an inten- ture in agricultural statistics and it provides a sive debate about how such transport should be relatively small number of jobs. All the products managed. It is a separate matter that relates to an developed as a result of fur farming are exported economic product that is of significant import- and no value is added to them. Animals are suf- ance to this country’s economy. fering because fashion-conscious people want to Another issue that has received some attention indulge their whims. When the opinion of the recently — I intend to address it at a later stage public was sought in this respect, 64% of people — is the cruel and inhumane practice of so-called stated that they were opposed to fur farming. puppy farming. Many parallels can be drawn That is not an insignificant proportion of people. between the practices of fur farming and puppy I thank Deputy Boyle for introducing this Bill farming. Horrific photographs of neglected and and I thank Compassion in World Farming for suffering animals have been produced. Those taking proactive action to make Deputies aware who break the law by treating animals inhu- of some of the unpleasant and inhumane con- manely, whose only motive is greed, should be ditions in which animals are bred and managed suitably penalised. I do not draw an exact parallel during the production of a fashion product. between fur farming and puppy farming, but it is important that we should be aware in the context Mr. Gregory: I propose to share my time with of a Bill that deals with matters of animal welfare Deputies Joe Higgins and Morgan. that other practices, some of which are illegal, are escaping the tax net and are simply cruel to ani- An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Is that agreed? mals. That should be addressed. Agreed, 1735 Fur Farming (Prohibition) Bill 2004: 23 March 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 1736

Mr. Gregory: Ba mhaith liom tacaı´ocht a thab- whose members are leading scientists and veter- hairt don Dara Ce´im den Bhille um Fheirmeoire- inarians, including a member of staff of the veter- acht Fionnaidh (Toirmeasc) 2004, de chuid an inary research laboratory of the Department of Comhaontas Glas. Cuirim fa´ilte roimh an Bhille Agriculture and Food. The committee concluded agus gabhaim comhghairdeas leis an Teachta O´ that fur farming systems cause serious problems Baoill, a ullmhaigh an Bhille. Is mo´ r an trua e´ for all species of animals reared for fur. It main- nach bhfuil an Rialtas sa´sta glacadh leis an Bhille. tained that the problems are so serious that they I welcome this Bill and congratulate Deputy cannot be resolved by altering the conditions in Boyle of the Green Party, who is responsible for which animals are kept. Only a ban on fur farm- bringing it before the House. It is not often that ing can address the matter. the House debates issues of animal welfare or To keep mink and fox under intensive factory rights. Such matters have been raised conditions in tiny, barren wire cages is inherently infrequently during the 23 years I have spent as a cruel and results in stereotyped behaviour and Member of the House. I deplore that, but I think even self-mutilation. No modern society should there were many reasons for the failure to raise tolerate this form of ill-treatment of animals. this issue. Many states have taken action to ban fur farming During last night’s debate, at least one Member or are in the process of doing so. Fur farming is who spoke on the Bill was concerned that it might already banned in the North of Ireland, Britain represent the tip of an iceberg. Nevertheless, I and Austria. Fur farming is an issue under the think he will support it, perhaps for party political general umbrella of animal rights and welfare, reasons. He was concerned that, while we are which will not go away. I applaud Compassion in dealing with fur farming tonight, it could be hare World Farming Ireland and all those associated coursing next and heaven knows what after that, with the organisation who have led the campaign and he was right. Ireland is infamous for its cruel against fur farming, as they have on many other practices to animals which are increasingly being animal welfare issues here. outlawed in Britain, other EU countries and I wish to relate the issue of fur farming to the countries throughout the world. wider context of the various forms of cruelty to While the Green Party is on the side of animal animals which are regrettably tolerated in the rights, it is in a regrettably tiny minority in Da´il State. The State has an appalling record of official E´ ireann, with a handful of Independents and disregard for animal welfare. In the background Deputy Joe Higgins of the Socialist Party, whom masquerading as traditional country pursuits is a I always mistake as an Independent Deputy. sub-culture of cruelty to animals which resists the changes inevitable in a modern society. Some Mr. F. McGrath: He might join us yet. months ago, so-called puppy farms were exposed on RTE television. They are not unlike fur farms Mr. Gregory: Some time ago I introduced a with their dreadful conditions. Puppy farms Private Members’ Bill on hare coursing and operate here without any legislative restraint found myself in a very small minority indeed. despite being another form of activity which is While I am afraid to say it did not surprise me, not tolerated in Britain and other member states. bringing the Bill forward focused national atten- Despite claims that Ireland is the European tion on animal welfare. To my great delight, I capital of this type of animal degradation, the found that while I was in a very small minority in exposures on RTE failed to result in tough legis- the House, the number of letters, phone calls and lative action. Indeed, there has been no action expressions of support I received from people in other than a ministerial response to the effect that each of the Thirty-two Counties indicated that I discussions are taking place with interested par- was part of a very large majority among the ties. The Government’s could-not-care-less public. The same is true in this case. While the approach is mirrored in a range of cruel practices Bill will be defeated by a Government majority, which inflict unnecessary suffering on animals. I have no doubt that it would be supported by the The State continues to tolerate the barbaric treat- majority of people outside the House who are in ment of timid animals in live hare coursing which favour of banning fur farming. was recently outlawed in the North. The respon- The House is politically out of touch on animal sible Minister here refuses to even countenance welfare and animal rights, which are becoming the humane alternative of drag coursing using a increasingly significant issues internationally. It mechanical lure. The hunting of foxes with packs would have been a significant step forward to end of hounds, which was recently banned in Britain, at least one form of the unnecessary animal continues unrestricted in Ireland when drag hunt- cruelty which blights society and offends public ing with a scented lure could easily remove the morality. There is no justification on economic or cruelty aspect of the practice. other grounds for fur farming in today’s world. The action of the British Labour Party in ban- There are plenty of other products which meet ning the use of packs of hounds to hunt has not clothing and fashion demands and do not involve been reciprocated even slightly here. There is a animal suffering. Factory fur farming is inherently genuine fear among Irish animal welfare and cruel. The most comprehensive study on the sub- rights activists that moves against cruel practices ject was carried out by the EU’s scientific com- in Britain and other member states will make mittee on animal health and welfare, among Ireland an even greater haven for such activities. 1737 Fur Farming (Prohibition) Bill 2004: 23 March 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 1738

Fur farming was banned in Britain, but it diva can have an accessory that makes them look flourishes here. chic, smug and prosperous. I could provide many other examples of cruelty A Fianna Fa´il Deputy who knows a thing or to animals which occurs in the State. I take this two about cattle, and about other people’s cattle opportunity to draw attention to such practices as as well, referred to the live export of cattle. they form the context in which I support the Surely the live export of cattle should be stopped Green Party’s Bill. I am delighted that the oppor- in favour of having the meat processed here tunity has been afforded to Members to state where significant additional value could be their views on cruelty to animals. I hope we will added. The product could then be exported in see the day when measures such as those pro- different ways. posed by the Green Party are met with support I take the jobs question seriously but job substi- from all sides of the House. In this area at least, tution is the way to deal with the matter. This we must join the modern world. matter is akin to the armaments industry which we do not support simply to keep jobs. I accept Mr. J. Higgins: I support the proposal to ban it is on a different scale. We must deal with the fur farming and, therefore, the Bill submitted in issue itself. the name of Deputy Boyle. My opposition to fur farming relates primarily to the conditions in Mr. Morgan: I query some of the statistics which wild animals are kept to make the industry referred to by the Minister of State, Deputy possible. The animals affected for the most part Browne. He claimed that 80 people are employed are mink and foxes. full-time by fur farms with a further 85 seasonal A number of Fianna Fa´il opponents of the Bill workers. I am curious as to the source of those paraded their farming and rural credentials. As a supporter of the Bill I would like to do likewise. figures which do not appear to be accurate. I say I was brought up on a small farm in that in the gentlest way possible. 8 o’clock The most recent figure for the value of fur Corca Dhuibhne in west Kerry. In \ the 1950s, before the words were exports from the CSO was 1.6 million. If these known or certainly popularised, most of our farm- employees were all on the minimum wage, the ing activity was organic and animals were reared wage bill, including tax for 80 full-time \ free-range. Chickens and turkeys ranged freely employees, would amount to around 1.5 million. across the fields. The pigs also roamed freely, That does not to take into account the wages of happy as pigs in open fields. Admittedly the the 85 so-called seasonal workers or the capital methods of killing of those times in rural Ireland costs involved. Are we to take it that these fur were cruel, not because people wanted to be cruel farms are being run at a loss or that they are some but because the humane alternatives were not in class of charitable foundation set up to employ existence. people and provide warm homes for poor old In general, because of the free range nature of foxes and mink or even poor young foxes and animal husbandry, it was the antithesis of what is mink? I do not think so. I humbly suggest that necessary to produce fur for the fashion industry. the overall figure for full and part-time workers The mass production methods of some farms are is around 85 people and that the majority of these horrific. It is revolting to see thousands of chick- are seasonal workers employed for a week or two ens cooped up together on battery farms. It is at most to kill the animals and harvest their pelts. appalling. I would not eat an egg from a chicken, Those with a good knowledge of the sector esti- or a chicken that was reared in such conditions. mate that two or three full-time employees is the Mink and foxes are wild creatures. In their average for the size of farms in this country. At habitat in the wild, mink spend most of their time most we are talking about perhaps 20 people on land but also some time in the water. Let us employed on a full-time basis. contrast that to the conditions in which they are The Minister of State and his Government col- kept on these farms where they are confined to leagues referred to the kindly manner in which the poor creatures are cared for and that every tiny cages with no access to water. The conditions step will be taken to ensure that this is main- in which foxes are reared is possibly worse tained and improved upon. How touching. because in the wild, arctic foxes and other species of fox, migrate tens of miles and, in some cases, Mary Coughlan: The Deputy’s party does not up to 70 miles. display the same respect for human beings. It is inordinately cruel to have these creatures caged in spaces that are one to two metres square. An Ceann Comhairle: Deputy Morgan should None of the Fianna Fa´il Deputies referred to or be allowed to speak without interruption. attempted to deal with these conditions. We have all seen footage from animal rights groups and Mr. Morgan: I will come back to that at the end others of the type of behaviour that this kind of if I have time. stress and cruelty evokes in these animals. It is Let us look briefly at the economics of this horrific to see. I do not see how it is possible to issue. On the basis of export value, a single ani- stand over that so that some privileged don or mal pelt is sold for \14. The animals are killed 1739 Fur Farming (Prohibition) Bill 2004: 23 March 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 1740

[Mr. Morgan.] Arts, Sport and Tourism. Puppy farms, which we after seven months. That means that fur farmers, do not have, come under the remit of the Minister assuming that they extract no profit from the for the Environment, Heritage and Local whole business, spend 6.6 cent per day on the ani- Government. mals in their loving care. There is not much scope I have concerns about one matter which I there for luxuries. There are no days out to the would like to put to some Members of the Oppo- beach for the mink and foxes or no treats for sition, namely, that we must now slavishly follow birthdays or bank holidays. In fact, it would be the British Labour Party. I am surprised. How are impossible to provide any type of decent exist- we, the people of rural Ireland, going to live? ence for any living creature for just over 6 cent a day. A Deputy: The Minister should deal with the A colleague of mine who works here asked his issue. young daughter, Ciara, to work out how much it costs to feed and house one of her guinea pigs. An Ceann Comhairle: Allow the Minister This was a most interesting survey. A bag of dried speak without interruption, please. food lasts for six months and costs \7. Bedding for the same period costs \8. In addition to that, Mary Coughlan: We will deal with the issue of she feeds the animal with carrots and broccoli the Bill proposed, but I hear that a man who sur- that cost approximately \2 a week. That works vived on live exports is now of the opinion that out at 36 cent per day. I humbly suggest that the they should be removed. That does not reflect the economics of this business to supply fur coats and reality of the situation. I am equally surprised hats for the idle rich can only mean one thing for Fine Gael Deputies have not read between the the animals who are the real fashion victims: a lines as to where we are going. One Deputy read short, nasty, crowded, poorly fed existence that between the lines and saw exactly where we are ends in being gassed or electrocuted. When I was going because--—— preparing my script I was tempted to say that the “short, nasty, crowded” part was just like a Mr. Boyle: How about Austria? Fianna Fa´il parliamentary party meeting. Mr. Sargent: Where is the Minister going? However, I resisted. I did not include that in my script. Mr. Boyle: We are going beyond the Bill.

Mary Coughlan: Deputy Morgan is always wel- Mr. Naughten: What about our shooting and come to come and see how we work. fishing industries?

Mr. Morgan: I, therefore, urge all Deputies to An Ceann Comhairle: Deputies must allow the support this Bill and bring this marginal barbaric Minister to continue. business to an end. I wish to deal with the jibes from the Minister, Mary Coughlan: ——the members of the Fine Deputy Coughlan. When I come to the House, I Gael Party are at least pragmatic in reflecting the expect that the Minister and her colleagues will realities of agriculture and have been very sup- equate everything that a Sinn Fe´in Deputy says portive in addressing a number of these issues. If with the Irish freedom struggle. That will not stop we want to have a countryside where the people me and my colleagues from having our say on who do not live outside the M50 can come and issues like this. If the Minister wishes to debate involve themselves for the weekend and go home, the Irish freedom struggle, I will happily accom- that is fine, but it is not the way it is going to be. modate her in any forum she chooses. She should If that is the way Deputies want to go forward, I not try to distort the argument presented in this am surprised. Bill by trying to mix it up and stir it around. That will not work. Mr. Gormley: This has nothing to do with the I am delighted that there is considerable una- Bill. nimity on the issue on this side of the House on this issue. I understand that all the Opposition Mary Coughlan: I am equally surprised that we parties will support the Bill. are now going to have a proposed coalition of romantics on the other side of this House. I am Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary glad to see—— Coughlan): I am delighted to see that we have sensitivities across the way. I am sorely attempted Mr. Boyle: The Minister is a cold woman. to deviate from my script and I will do so to respond to a number of political points to reac- Mary Coughlan: ——that we have the oppor- quaint some Members of the House who inadver- tunity to discuss this. I am opposed to the intro- tently referred to a number of issues, particularly duction of a ban on fur farming. Instead, I believe hare coursing, which is not under my jurisdiction the correct approach is to apply appropriate but comes under the remit of the Minister for licensing and control procedures to ensure both 1741 Fur Farming (Prohibition) Bill 2004: 23 March 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 1742 the security of the farms and acceptable welfare animal welfare in the wider agricultural policy of conditions. I have reached this view for a number the EU. of reasons. In particular, fur farming is a legit- As regards fur farming, I am aware that the imate activity and it is permitted in almost all Scientific Committee on Animal Health and Ani- other member states, including Sweden and mal Welfare produced a report recently on the Denmark, which would consider themselves to be welfare of animals kept for farming purposes to the forefront on animal welfare issues. Any which contains recommendations on how this market opportunities resulting from a ban here area can be improved. It also proposes a list of would be immediately exploited by producers areas where future research is desirable. While elsewhere. Thus, a unilateral ban here would not there is recognition in the European context that make any contribution to overall animal welfare. there is room for improvements in certain areas, Fur farming is subject to general and specific ongoing research is required. The Department legislative requirements. At a general level, the will fulfil its role in monitoring the implemen- welfare and protection of farmed animals is sub- tation of these advances and expects the industry ject to the Protection of Animals kept for Farm- to play its part in moving forward and meeting ing Purposes Act 1984 and the European Com- its obligations. munities (Protection of Animals kept for Farming Fur farming is relatively small-scale in Ireland Purposes) Regulations 2000. In addition, the in comparison with other EU member states, but Council of Europe has made recommendations nonetheless it is important. I have always taken regarding animals kept for fur farming. The 2000 the view that animal welfare, not just for fur regulations apply to many types of farming farming but for farming enterprises in general, is systems, including cattle, sheep and pigs as well very important. We will certainly be led by Euro- as the animals kept on fur farms. pean and national legislation. This legislation is As regards specific measures, legislation is in not the way forward and an all-out ban on fur place relating to the licensing of mink farms in farming will not be progressive. the Musk Rats Act 1933 and the Musk Rats Act 1933 (Application to Mink) Order 1965. Under Mr. Gogarty: I would like to share time with the latter, the keeping of mink is prohibited Deputies Gormley and Sargent. except under licence from my Department. The first matter I want to address is the Licences, which must be renewed annually, are broader agenda issue about the fabric of rural issued under this legislation only if the applicant, society being destroyed by Green Party policies. following an inspection, is found to be fully com- If one considers post office closures and farm pliant with a number of key conditions. In incomes declining, it is Fianna Fa´il which, by and large, has presided over the latter. addition, in common with all agricultural enterprises, licensed farms must comply with the Mr. B. Smith: Farm incomes are not declining. animal health and welfare requirements per- taining to their particular sphere of activity. Mary Coughlan: They are not. Licensed fur farms are inspected by the Department to assess compliance with the An Ceann Comhairle: Allow Deputy Gogarty Council of Europe recommendations concerning to speak without interruption. fur animals and also Council Directive 98/58/EC on the keeping of animals for farming purposes. Mr. Gogarty: Which party is proposing alterna- These inspections have to date found that all the tives in terms of stipends for farmers who act as licensed fur farms in this country have operated custodians of the land? It is the Green Party. in compliance with current legislation. Inspec- tions by the Department have also found that the Mr. B. Smith: The Green Party has been slaughter methods employed by the licensed fur attacking the farmers. That has been its con- farms are permitted under the Sixth Schedule of tribution. the European Communities (Protection of Ani- mals at Time of Slaughter) Regulations 1995. An Ceann Comhairle: Allow Deputy Gogarty Since becoming Minister for Agriculture and to speak without interruption. Food, I have sought to build on the progress already made in animal welfare. Primary Mr. Gogarty: Deputy Twomey rightfully responsibility for caring for animals resides with pointed out the potential of this sector and the the farmers and the keepers who have demon- lack of Government support in terms of using strated their commitment in this regard over the rapeseed oil to produce fuel. Our party’s deputy years. We also have a raft of EU and national leader, Ms Mary White, has engaged in a cam- legislation which has succeeded in raising stan- paign to save Carlow jobs and protect farm dards across all species and activities. This is part incomes by using the Irish Sugar factory to of an ongoing process and the recent reform of produce biofuel. The Government is standing in EU support arrangements will further strengthen the way—— 1743 Fur Farming (Prohibition) Bill 2004: 23 March 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 1744

Mary Coughlan: The Deputy never raised the Mr. Gogarty: However, it will take 84 dumb question in a debate. Deputies to reject this progressive legislation.

An Ceann Comhairle: Deputy Gogarty, with- (Interruptions). out interruption. An Ceann Comhairle: Allow Deputy Gogarty, Mr. Gogarty: There are so many alternatives to without interruption. fur farming. It comprises a very small amount — \4 million — as Deputy Moloney said, yet Ludd- Mr. Gogarty: I have spoken in favour of main- ite thinking continues to hold sway. taining the fabric of rural communities and there was no greater champion of this than myself as Mr. B. Smith: The Deputy should apply the tourist spokesman, with my Green Party col- term “Luddite thinking” to himself. leagues. We are the party trying to save farm incomes and rural communities. Mr. Gogarty: Fianna Fa´il Deputies talk about An Ceann Comhairle: Allow Deputy Gogarty the market and supply and demand in all serious- to continue without interruption. ness as if the economy means everything and society and morality mean nothing. There are Mr. B. Smith: The Deputy would be very wel- other and better ways of providing farm jobs such come in rural communities. as the initiatives the Green Party, not the Government, puts forward. Compensation could Mr. Gogarty: I oppose the murder of innocent and should certainly be paid to those involved in civilians in Iraq, Tel Aviv, Madrid, New York and fur farming were it to be outlawed, as it should other jurisdictions, but that does not mean that I be. It is a moral, not an economic issue about have no right to oppose the morally wrong and growing demand. inherently cruel killing of innocent animals, The argument that we could lose out is mere brought into this world for no other reason than rubber ducking. There is growing demand glo- its fur is a fashion item. Fur is not like leather, a bally for legalised hard core pornography, but no by-product of the meat industry. We must take a one suggests that Ardmore Studios should be courageous moral stand rather than use the econ- used to earn extra revenue. We could make omic argument, otherwise we may see in Ireland billions of euro by setting up a dedicated arms abortion clinics and weapons factories for factory to export weapons of mass destruction to revenue. corrupt regimes, but is anyone using the econ- omic excuse for bringing such industries to Mary Coughlan: I hope not. Ireland? No, there is enormous demand and we are losing out to other countries by not entering Mr. Gogarty: Does the Minister want us to this market, but morality comes into it. copy other countries and use dogs and cats for Thousands of unfortunate women travel to fur? This a moral prerogative, nothing else. Mor- England every year for abortions, but no one is ality wins over economics in this debate. I ask arguing to allow abortions in Ireland because we Members to make a moral decision when casting are losing out in terms of revenue. As Deputy their votes on the Bill. Gregory said, the mistreatment of animals for the production of fur is inherently cruel. Animals An Ceann Comhairle: It is not appropriate to used to make fur include dogs, cats, pumas, seals, applaud in the gallery. badgers, foxes, otters, mink and squirrels. It might be just foxes and mink in this country, but Mr. Gormley: I had not even started to speak. let us consider this. It takes 30 to 70 mink to Mr. Naughten: They must be the Deputy’s con- produce one fur coat. That is 30 to 70 mink stituents. brought into the world and stripped of their fur to produce an item of fashion for this global Mr. Gormley: The Green Party’s Private market the Minister is so happy to talk about. Members’ Bill to ban fur farming in Ireland is a It might take 30 to 70 dumb animals to make modest and sensible proposal. While it does not one fur coat; it takes one dumb animal to wear it. strike a major blow for animal rights, it is a step It takes no dumb animal to introduce legislation in the right direction for basic animal welfare. It to abolish fur farming; it takes six Green Party is disappointing and regrettable that the Govern- Deputies. ment has seen fit to shoot it down without proper consideration of its merits. Mary Coughlan: The Deputy should give way on that issue. Mr. Boyle: None whatsoever.

An Ceann Comhairle: Allow Deputy Gogarty Mr. Gormley: We should not be surprised as to continue. this is a cold, calculating, hard-hearted Govern- 1745 Fur Farming (Prohibition) Bill 2004: 23 March 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 1746 ment, one that is wedded to expediency. The I still feel that we will have the problem again Government has no compassion for the less well- this Summer. There is also a problem with the off, for those with a disability or young immi- waste effluent of the farm entering Lough Cur- grants snatched from school and deported. rane. During the late Spring, Summer and early Autumn flocks of seagulls will be seen at the Mr. F. McGrath: Hear, hear. It is disgraceful. mouth of the river passing the Mink farm into the lake. These seagulls are feeding on the Mr. Gormley: It would be extraordinary if effluent from the farm and are also feeding on Fianna Fa´il or the Progressive Democrats could the food and offal associated with the caged be stirred to pity for animals which have to minks. endure such terrible suffering. I am in full support of a ban on mink farm- ing. I feel it is not regulated as the pro lobby Mr. Boyle: Where are the Progressive Democrats? claim. The department of Agriculture seems to have no input into the running of mink farms Mr. Gormley: Will any Member on the in the state and it is only the local councils that Government benches empathise with the plight seem to have any powers to regulate them. At and suffering of these caged animals? I will not that, those powers are governed by antiquated go into the gruesome details of how these animals Acts of law gong back many years and offering are killed. However, those who can justify such only small penalties for any irregularities. I cruelty must be very sick indeed. No amount of wish you success in bringing this before the regulation can make this practice more accept- Da´il. able or less cruel. This e-mail is from a dweller in rural Ireland. The One can judge how civilised a society is by how Minister must be aware of the damage caused by it treats its animals. By rejecting this enlightened escaped mink, a non-native species, in certain legislation, Fianna Fa´il and the Progressive areas to local wildlife. The Minister must not Democrats are happy for this barbaric practice to underestimate the amount of public support for continue. These animals are not suffering because this legislation. Most people have a sense of they provide food for people. They are being mis- justice and are aware of the cruelty involved in treated and tortured for nothing more than status fur farming. Most people, therefore, will accept and vanity. this legislation. The Minister is out of touch with The Minister and others have suggested this ordinary people. I commend the Bill to the legislation would have a negative impact on rural House. Ireland. That is absolute nonsense and she knows it. Mary Coughlan: I am delighted the Deputy has Mary Coughlan: That is the Green Party’s told me that. He must think I know nothing. agenda for rural Ireland. Mr. Sargent: Ar dtu´ sba´ire ba mhaith liom mo An Ceann Comhairle: Allow Deputy Gormley bhuı´ochas a gabha´il leis na Teachtaı´ as Fine Gael, to continue without interruption. Pa´irtı´ an Lucht Oibre, Sinn Fe´in agus An Pa´irtı´ So´ isialach agus leis na Teachtaı´ Neamhsplea´cha a Mr. F. McGrath: The Minister will show us labhair ar son an Bille seo agus a thug tacaı´ocht what to do. don Bhille. Even if this Bill needs to be amended, those parties are supporting it. That is in the spirt Mr. Gormley: This legislation would help rural of the legislation introduced by Deputy Boyle, Ireland. There are only six fur farms in Ireland, who I thank. some of which are causing serious problems in No fur breeders must have contributed to the their localities. Yesterday, I received an e-mail Progressive Democrats’ funds, as no party from an individual living close to a fur farm in member has shown up to voice an opinion on the County Kerry. He stated: subject. It is ironic to hear Fianna Fa´il Deputies In the last two years the neighbourhood has claim to be the farmers’ friends, particularly been tormented with an infestation of flies. No Deputy Ellis. When he makes such a claim, I am household can open their windows from May sure many of those farmers looking for payment on to September/October. As you can imagine for their produce would take a jaundiced view. with children this is near impossible. This is a Under the Government, farmers cannot survive serious health concern and the health and with the prices they receive for their produce. safety depart. of the council are aware that the root problem lies with the Mink farm. They Mary Coughlan: The Deputy has not a clue. have requested certain measures be taken by Beef prices have never been so good. the mink farm, but I have been told by a neigh- bour that they are now being brought to court Mr. Sargent: Any cant about representing by the council. This is welcome news for us, but farming is hollow and hypocritical. 1747 Fur Farming (Prohibition) Bill 2004: 23 March 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 1748

Mary Coughlan: The Green Party are the believed in the devil he would look remarkably hypocrites. like a human being.” In this case the devil would look like a Minister, the person standing over Mr. B. Smith: The Deputy is not giving the this cruelty. facts. The Minister of State at the Department of Agriculture and Food, Deputy Browne, claimed Mr. Sargent: Licensing for fur farms in Ireland fur farming provided employment for 80 full-time was only introduced in 1965, yet ranching of and 85 seasonal workers. I am interested in hear- American mink began 55 years ago, unlicensed. ing where the Minister received his figures. They It still has a culture of non-regulation. This is must be corrected. They do not add up. Even if shown by the evidence from localities where mink the \1.9 million export figure for raw fur skins have escaped. In 1969 mink were sighted in 11 from Ireland was devoted to paying wages, which of the Thirty-two Counties. American mink was it is not, each of the full-time workers would earn breeding in the wild in County Tyrone, causing less than \20,000 per year and there would be no havoc among the native wildlife. It now breeds in money left for seasonal workers, maintenance many counties. As fur farming is banned in and feeding of the animals, the general running Northern Ireland, and if we are serious about the of the business or for profit. Good Friday Agreement, we should harmonise There are better alternatives. Look at Perth- our legislation to those high standards. shire in Scotland. Alternative industries in farm- ing can and should be developed. In Scotland a Mary Coughlan: There are no fur farms in fur farm has been transformed into a major Northern Ireland. exporter of strawberries, an enterprise which employs more people in farming. If the Minister Mr. Sargent: It is banned, that is my point. was serious about employment in rural Ireland Logic dictates that if it is banned there are no and supporting farming, that is the example she farms. should follow. That is where the potential lies in terms of exports, employment and providing a Mr. B. Smith: Like Deputy Morgan, the livelihood for people in rural areas. Instead, the Deputy wants us to follow the British. Minister stands over a deplorable persecution of Mr. Sargent: Wild mink also badly affect poul- rural communities in terms of health hazards, try farms. cruelty, the flies infestation and the smells. The Government does not give a damn for Mr. B. Smith: We are unfortunate to become a rural Ireland or animal welfare. Effectively, it is Thirty-two County jurisdiction. standing over the death camps this industry rep- resents. When the German people elected Hitler, Mr. Sargent: What about the effects of fur they did not know about the extermination farming on the type of society we are trying to camps. When people vote on this Bill, they know foster? Gandhi claimed “the greatness of a nation about the cruelty, the death camps and what is and its moral progress can be judged by the way involved. its animals are treated”. Where does this stand with the morals of the Government? George Mary Coughlan: That is preposterous. I am sur- Bernard Shaw said “The worst sin toward our fel- prised at the Deputy. low creatures is not to hate them, but to be indif- Mr. B. Smith: The Deputy should be ashamed ferent to them: that is the essence of inhumanity.” of his comments. When animal welfare was debated in the British House of Lords, the then Bishop of Manchester Mr. Sargent: I urge people to vote with their pointed out, which I as a Christian take seriously: conscience and vote for the Bill. “My Lords, I once heard it said — and the saying has haunted me ever since — that if animals Question put.

The Da´il divided: Ta´, 50; Nı´l, 67.

Ta´

Allen, Bernard. Deenihan, Jimmy. Boyle, Dan. Durkan, Bernard J. Broughan, Thomas P. English, Damien. Bruton, Richard. Enright, Olwyn. Burton, Joan. Gilmore, Eamon. Costello, Joe. Gogarty, Paul. Coveney, Simon. Gormley, John. Cowley, Jerry. Gregory, Tony. Crawford, Seymour. Harkin, Marian. Crowe, Sea´n. Higgins, Joe. Cuffe, Ciara´n. Hogan, Phil. 1749 Hospital 23 March 2005. Services 1750

Ta´—continued

Howlin, Brendan. O’Keeffe, Jim. Kehoe, Paul. O’Shea, Brian. Kenny, Enda. O’Sullivan, Jan. Lynch, Kathleen. Perry, John. McGrath, Finian. Rabbitte, Pat. McHugh, Paddy. Ryan, Eamon. McManus, Liz. Sargent, Trevor. Mitchell, Gay. Sherlock, Joe. Morgan, Arthur. Shortall, Ro´ isı´n. Moynihan-Cronin, Breeda. Stagg, Emmet. Murphy, Catherine. Stanton, David. Murphy, Gerard. Twomey, Liam. Naughten, Denis. Upton, Mary. Neville, Dan. Wall, Jack.

Nı´l

Ahern, Michael. Kelleher, Billy. Ahern, Noel. Kelly, Peter. Andrews, Barry. Killeen, Tony. Ardagh, Sea´n. Kirk, Seamus. Brady, Johnny. Kitt, Tom. Brady, Martin. Lenihan, Brian. Breen, James. Lenihan, Conor. Callanan, Joe. McDowell, Michael. Callely, Ivor. McEllistrim, Thomas. Carey, Pat. McGuinness, John. Carty, John. Martin, Michea´l. Collins, Michael. Moloney, John. Cooper-Flynn, Beverley. Moynihan, Donal. Coughlan, Mary. Moynihan, Michael. Cregan, John. Mulcahy, Michael. Cullen, Martin. Nolan, M. J. Curran, John. O´ Cuı´v, E´ amon. Davern, Noel. O´ Fearghaı´l, Sea´n. Dempsey, Tony. O’Connor, Charlie. Dennehy, John. O’Donoghue, John. Devins, Jimmy. O’Donovan, Denis. Ellis, John. O’Flynn, Noel. Fahey, Frank. O’Keeffe, Batt. Finneran, Michael. O’Keeffe, Ned. Fitzpatrick, Dermot. O’Malley, Fiona. Fleming, Sea´n. Power, Peter. Gallagher, Pat The Cope. Roche, Dick. Glennon, Jim. Smith, Brendan. Grealish, Noel. Wallace, Dan. Hanafin, Mary. Wallace, Mary. Haughey, Sea´n. Wilkinson, Ollie. Hoctor, Ma´ire. Woods, Michael. Jacob, Joe. Wright, G. V. Keaveney, Cecilia.

Tellers: Ta´, Deputies Boyle and Gregory; Nı´l, Deputies Kitt and Kelleher.

Question declared lost. a statement on the decision of the Irish Medicines Board instructing the hospital to suspend all clini- Adjournment Debate. cal trial related activities for the treatment of child leukemia with effect from 15 March, because consultants at Our Lady’s Hospital in ———— Crumlin were unwilling to sign a document outli- Hospital Services. ning the Mercy Hospital’s responsibilities under a shared care programme forwarded by the Mercy Mr. Allen: I would like to give one minute of Hospital to Our Lady’s Hospital. This will have my time to Deputy Lynch. serious implications for the treatment of sick chil- I pay tribute to the leukemia unit of the Mercy dren in the greater Cork area, who will be forced Hospital in Cork for the great work done for sick to travel to Dublin several times a week in some children in Cork city, county and surrounding cases. counties. I also pay tribute to the Mercy order, I also ask for a statement on the failure of the which set up the unit, as well as to those people Department of Health and Children to sanction who helped to fund the unit through the years. I a replacement consultant haematologist for the ask the Minister for Health and Children to make children’s leukemia unit. There are difficulties 1751 Hospital 23 March 2005. Services 1752

[Mr. Allen.] oversees the treatment of their children was retir- arising as a result of the retirement of a consult- ing? His retirement has been known about for ant next May, but whose retirement has been well almost a year. As a result of changes in the health known for 12 months by the Southern Health services system, the Health Service Executive is Board and the Department of Health and Chil- now demanding that the application process for dren. As a consequence of the imminent retire- that post should recommence. In the meantime, ment of the consultant, the children’s leukemia no new cases of child leukaemia diagnosed in unit in the Mercy Hospital can no longer take on Cork and the surrounding areas will be treated new cases of childhood cancers and leukemia. All by the leukaemia unit in the Mercy Hospital. such cases in the Cork region are being treated in Therefore, new patients will have to travel to Our Our Lady’s Hospital for Sick Children and only Lady’s Hospital in Crumlin. Very sick children existing patients are being treated in the chil- may have to travel to Dublin weekly all because dren’s leukemia unit in the Mercy Hospital. the Government refuses to put in place the neces- The cancer treatment of children is protracted sary personnel to ensure that the unit can con- and the children and at least one family member tinue to render the sterling service it has provided are being forced to travel long distances for for many years. essential treatment, sometimes on public trans- port. This has a traumatic effect on children, on Minister of State at the Department of Trans- their immediate families and often on their port (Mr. Callely): I would like to be associated extended families, who may provide necessary with the tributes paid by Deputy Allen to the ser- support and assistance to family members left at vice providers. I know the Ta´naiste and Minister home. Therefore, the appointment of the new for Health and Children, Deputy Harney, would post of consultant haematologist with an interest also like to be associated with those tributes. I in child haematology should be made as quickly thank Deputy Allen and Deputy Lynch for rais- as possible to allow the children’s leukaemia unit ing this matter on the Adjournment which I am again to take on new cases of child cancers, answering on behalf of the Ta´naiste and Minister including leukaemia, in the region. for Health and Children. I am aware that earlier this year the Ta´naiste I have good news to convey and wish to correct was contacted about this matter but the affected the record as regards some of the information parents have not yet received a response. The that has been provided in this regard. The Irish families I have met are extremely distressed and Medicines Board is the statutory body respon- concerned about what is happening. Some of sible for the regulation of human medicinal prod- them make long journeys to Dublin with sick chil- ucts in Ireland. This includes the regulation of ´ dren who must often fast before treatment. They clinical trials. The Tanaiste understands that activities related to the conduct of clinical trials must also make the long return journey to Cork were suspended in the Mercy Hospital, Cork, on after receiving treatment. The parents and their 15 March 2005 due to issues requiring clarifica- children are distressed and upset by the uncer- tion under the terms of a shared care agreement tainty of the situation and the extensive travel between Our Lady’s Hospital, Crumlin, and the involved. It is essential for these issues to be Mercy Hospital. resolved as quickly as possible. It will be a scandal The purpose of the shared care agreement is if bureaucratic barriers affecting the operation of to ensure that clinical trial related activities are the unit cannot be set aside quickly and carried out to the same high standards at all effectively. locations. I am pleased to inform the House the Ta´naiste has been advised that these issues have Ms Lynch: I thank Deputy Allen for allowing now been resolved and that all the parties me to share his time slot. I am also grateful to the involved have signed up to the shared care agree- Ceann Comhairle’s office for allowing this issue ment. The Irish Medicines Board today lifted the to be raised on the Adjournment. When one con- suspension and the Mercy Hospital has been noti- siders the statistics, it is clear that Ireland is one fied of this. The unit was not closed down and of the wealthiest nations in Europe. However, if there were no implications for children who are we cannot provide the type of treatment neces- undergoing clinical trials for leukaemia treatment sary for children who are critically ill, that wealth at the unit. is worth nothing to us. Over the years, the leu- kaemia unit in the Mercy Hospital has done Tro- Mr. Allen: Nobody ever said the unit was being jan work. As a testament to that work, the closed down. hospital has a committee which includes the parents of children who have been treated and An Ceann Comhairle: Please allow the Mini- cured in that unit. They still work on behalf of the ster of State to continue without interruption. unit and now work on behalf of the 50 families of children who are treated there. Mr. Callely: As regards the appointment of a Can the Minister of State imagine their shock consultant paediatrician, the Department of when they were informed that the person who Health and Children is not responsible for the 1753 Airport Development 23 March 2005. Projects 1754 advertising of individual consultant posts. It is, Ms Lynch: I thank the Minister of State for therefore, incorrect to state that the Department his reply. failed to advertise for a replacement consultant paediatrician for the Mercy University Hospital. Airport Development Projects. The Health Act 2004 provided for the Health Ser- Dr. Cowley: I am grateful for the opportunity vice Executive which was established on 1 to raise this important matter on the Adjourn- January 2005. Under the Act, the executive has ment and thank the Ceann Comhairle for the responsibility to manage and deliver, or allowing me to do so. Knock is Ireland’s fourth arrange to be delivered on its behalf, health and international airport serving up to 13 counties. personal social services. This includes responsi- Some 21 million passengers a year travel through bility for the provision of acute hospital services airports in the south and east. Six million passen- and the appointment of new or replacement con- gers travel through airports in Northern Ireland, sultant posts. As such, the Department of Health which has almost the same population as the and Children no longer has a role in the funding Border, midlands and west region. Knock Air- arrangements for individual consultant posts. port, however, with a projected figure of 500,000 passengers this year, is the starkest example of Mr. Allen: That is only since January. the failure to develop the BMW region. It is an example of unbalanced regional development and Mr. Callely: As regards cancer services in the we are paying for it. southern region, a professor of paediatrics is Knock Airport has a longer runway than Cork, employed for three sessions at the Mercy Univer- yet it has been the poor relation for Government sity Hospital to provide paediatric care for chil- investments. The problem with Government dren attending the hospital. The professor is due funding to Knock International Airport is that it to retire at the end of May 2005. As to the con- is tied to safety and security developments there. tinuation of these services, the hospital is to sub- In the south and east, however, airport invest- mit a proposal for a locum consultant to the ment is directed to expanding the existing air- Health Service Executive, as a matter of priority. ports rather than just airport safety and security. This proposal is for an appointment for a 12- For years, Dublin has benefited from public month period with a sessional commitment of 5.5 sector support and is now capable of supporting sessions to the Mercy University Hospital. substantial investment in other airports, such as Considerable investment has been made in Cork and Shannon. Knock has no such relation- recent years in the development of cancer ser- ship with a large cash cow. Between now and vices in the southern region. Since 1997, the 2007, an investment of \18 million is required at HSE’s southern area has received an investment Knock to provide the airport with category 2 \ of approximately 80 million for oncology ser- status which would greatly reduce any chance of vices, including this year’s allocation of an plane diversions. It would also provide an \ additional 3.5 million from national cancer expanded airport apron so there would be strategy funding to address increased regional adequate space for large aircraft, such as the pressures in oncology services. This funding has Airbus, which now use Knock Airport. This provided for the approval of an additional 11 con- apron ensures aeroplanes with a fast turnaround sultants in key areas of cancer care delivery. time are not delayed, and, therefore, schedules The funding has also provided for the appoint- are kept. ment of 27 cancer care nurse specialists through- Geographically, Knock is strategically placed. out the region. Additional revenue funding of It is less than a one hour drive from nine regional \1.55 million is being allocated from national can- urban centres or gateways and is the only effec- cer strategy funding in 2005 to address increased tive international airport for most of regional pressures. A number of southern region 9 o’clock them. Traffic numbers at Knock Air- hospitals are benefiting to the value of approxi- port in January and February last mately \1 million for colorectal and plastic sur- grew by 101% compared to the same period last gery, while the Mercy University Hospital will year. In the past six months two new Gatwick benefit to the extent of \300,000 for oncology ser- routes, a Liverpool route and a second vice pressures. The South Infirmary-Victoria Birmingham route have been added to the exist- Hospital will receive an additional \250,000 for ing routes at the airport. Despite this, the Government intends to pro- cancer related services. \ vide a second terminal at Dublin Airport at a cost Capital funding of more than 4 million has of \150 million, which is projected to suck in 38 been provided for the development of radiation million passengers by 2025 and will further con- oncology services at Cork University Hospital gest Dublin, where traffic is already reduced to \ and ongoing revenue funding of 3 million is the pace of an ass and cart. Getting in and out of being provided to cater for the expansion of these Dublin Airport will continue to be a total night- services. I hope that reply has been informative mare. This is madness while an international air- and helpful for the Deputies who raised the port at Knock lies underdeveloped and under- question. utilised, with one 40th of the passenger numbers 1755 Airport Development 23 March 2005. Projects 1756

[Dr. Cowley.] through increased utilisation of the regional air- of Dublin Airport. It beggars belief and flies in ports. The Minister, Deputy Cullen and I do not the face of common sense, as well as contra- believe this suggestion is either feasible or practi- dicting Government policy on balanced regional cable. As the economy grows, our infrastructure development and the national development plan. development must keep pace so that new bottle- Just to the north, Northern Ireland, of a similar necks do not emerge in the transport system. size and population to the west, has six million Dublin Airport has considerable scope and capa- passengers compared to 500,000 at Knock. It is city to expand to cater for future growth in air estimated that 5,000 new jobs will be created due traffic for the foreseeable future and, accordingly, to the building of the second terminal. They Knock Airport could be expected to service the should be located at Knock and in the BMW needs of Dublin Airport’s natural hinterland. region, where net industrial output grew by only The Department of Transport is also commit- 3.7% annually between 1990 and 1997 compared ted to continuing enhancement of the contri- to 12.7% gross nationally. bution of the country’s network of regional air- Bed nights in tourist accommodation are down ports, including Knock Airport, to balanced by 20% in the west although tourist numbers rose regional development. I am acutely aware of the by 6% nationally, a point confirmed in the House good services emanating from Knock Airport and yesterday by the Minister for Arts, Sport and recently had the opportunity to meet the chief Tourism, Deputy O’Donoghue, who suggested executive officer and chairman of the Knock Air- the drop was due to poor access. It is past time port Authority. I congratulate them on the man- to end this madness. The development of Knock ner in which they have progressed the airport. Airport is the answer to poor access and would In the past five years, Knock Airport has do the congested Dublin Airport and its hinter- received more funding than any other airport land a favour. As new infrastructure would need through NDP capital grants and assistance with to be put in place throughout Dublin to cope with marketing, safety and security initiatives. My increasing passenger numbers, rather than help- Department provided \2.334 million in ing the situation a second terminal would only Exchequer grants towards essential infrastructure add to the imbalance and congestion that already at the airport between 2001 and 2003 under the exists. It is time to pull the plug and go for Knock. BMW operational programme of the NDP. The most significant project supported under the Mr. Callely: I am not sure I can agree with the measure was an impressive new departures hall, wording of the motion from my good friend and which was supported with grant-aid of approxi- colleague, Deputy Cowley, in regard to Dublin mately \1.38 million. The Minister for Transport Airport. Proposals on the development of Dublin recently announced a further allocation to the air- Airport are in the first instance a matter for the port under the next round of this scheme and an Dublin Airport Authority, which has statutory additional \2.3 million will be available for invest- responsibility to manage, operate and develop the ment in the airport between 2005 and 2007. The airport and to provide such facilities and services Department of Transport also provides funding as it considers necessary for aircraft and towards current expenditure on marketing, safety passengers. and security measures and more than \2.37 mill- Dublin Airport will rightly remain the coun- ion has been allocated to the airport for this pur- try’s main airport serving the needs not just of pose since 2000. the travelling public in our capital city and the Air access to the region is also directly facili- surrounding counties but of the country’s tour- tated through the daily public service obligation, ism, business and freight sectors generally. Not- PSO, service linking the airport to Dublin. The withstanding the greatly welcome increase over subvention paid by my Department to the con- recent years in traffic at Shannon and Cork air- tracted PSO airline is in the region of \200 per ports and at the regional airports, including passenger per one-way trip. The existing PSO Knock Airport, Dublin Airport will remain contract expires in July 2005 and I am pleased to crucial to the national economy. In this regard, advise there will be an extension of PSO for the passenger traffic through Dublin Airport is three years commencing 22 July 2005. An EU expected to grow from more than 17 million last procurement process for renewal of all PSO con- year to an estimated 23 million in 2009 and is tracts is currently under way, in accordance with forecast to increase to 30 million by around 2017. EU regulations for PSO air services. It is also noteworthy that the national spatial My Department will continue to assist Knock strategy has acknowledged that the expansion of Airport in the interests of the economic develop- the level of air services from Dublin Airport to ment of the BMW region. However, the level of a wider range of destinations is essential in the financial support would have to be carefully interests of underpinning Ireland’s future inter- evaluated in line with the general scale of oper- national competitiveness. ations at the airport and wider transport and avi- The Minister for Transport is aware of the ation policy. The recent growth in business at suggestion that the growth of Dublin Airport Knock Airport is encouraging. I congratulate all should be effectively capped and that further those involved in the management and provision growth in Dublin-based air traffic should be cat- of services emanating from Knock. It will help to ered for by a new airport on a green field site or ensure the long-term future viability of the air- 1757 Road Traffic 23 March 2005. Offences 1758 port as it responds to the many challenges and mobile and can operate from hard shoulders, opportunities currently facing all airports in the bridges and so on. The camera reads the licence increasingly competitive and liberalised aviation plate of the car and automatically and simul- sector. taneously checks it against the licensing records of the driver of the vehicle. It stores images of the Road Traffic Offences. cars found to be unlicensed. This photographic Cecilia Keaveney: I am glad the Minister for evidence can be presented in court in support of Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy prosecutions. McDowell, is present given that this is a road This resource, if deployed in the Republic, traffic issue and there has recently been a tragic would have the potential to detect road tax dodg- double fatality on the roads of Inishowen. I ers. It is not merely a question of the tax disc. I extend my sympathies to the Doherty and Mullen assume that our records can deal with the reten- families on the immensely sad loss of their two tion and recovery of information in the same way young daughters. Alice Mullen worked for the as happens in Northern Ireland. However, given Minister’s Department in the refugee appeals tri- that in the Republic insurance and national car bunal section. test discs are also displayed on windscreens, the In many parts of the country, issues arise in system has even more potential if deployed on regard to untaxed cars on the roads. The non- the spot, with the unlicensed car, when detected, payment of car tax is unfair on other road users followed either by motorcycle or by the van itself. given that the funding ring-fenced within county This could lead to the discovery of non-display of councils assists directly with the standard of road insurance details or of motorists not being provision. A car that is not taxed illustrates that insured or not in compliance with NCT some people want roads but do not want to con- requirements. tribute to them, leaving an added burden on This is a different issue from the controversy other road users. It is an issue that must be we heard of this morning in which gardaı´ them- addressed given that the real number of road selves said some people are picked on as soft users in any given area can mean better services options, namely, people driving at 35 mph being for that area; for example, a national car testing caught in a 30 mph zone, and that real road safety centre was sought for my area but the community issues needed to be dealt with. Untaxed cars are was told not enough vehicles were registered to possibly also uninsured and may not have passed warrant the centre. the NCT, so they are a safety hazard not only to Many wonder whether a different picture themselves but to other road users. would emerge, should the true number of When I raised this issue in August 2004 with vehicles be discovered and if all vehicles that the Minister for Transport, he put the matter should be taxed in the jurisdiction were taxed. In firmly back in the area of the Department of the Six Counties, there is already a system of Justice, Equality and Law Reform because, as he roadside surveys of unlicensed vehicles. A study said, the enforcement of road traffic legislation in 1998 revealed that at that time there was a was a matter for the Garda and it would be up to level of evasion of about 10% which equated to it if it wanted to employ such a system. He said 79,000 vehicles, and to £12 million sterling being that if it decided to do so, it would seek an lost to the Exchequer. Have we any idea of our amendment to the Road Traffic Act. Accord- rate of unlicensed vehicles? Have we done any ingly, I raise this issue with the Minister for surveys? Justice, Equality and Law Reform and not the The Northern excise duty wheel clamping cam- Minister for Transport as the matter has already paign in September 2001 led to 28,000 motorists been passed back and forth between the two voluntarily re-licensing their vehicles so that £3.2 Departments. million sterling that would otherwise have been North-South reciprocal arrangements need to lost was regained. To know we have a problem is be developed in regard to the collection of fines one thing; to do something about it is another. for all road traffic offences, particularly if It would be possible to have small campaigns or Northern car owners commit offences in the surveys carried out at local authority level if the Republic and vice versa. I would appreciate it if authorities were funded to do so. In this age of the Minister would consider my thoughts on this cross-Border co-operation we should surely issue and do his best with regard to introducing a examine the system in operation for three years system similar to the one working successfully in in Northern Ireland and learn from that Northern Ireland. There may even be a more experience. effective system of detecting people driving on In 2002, Sam Foster introduced the Stingray our roads untaxed, possibly uninsured and poss- system in Belfast. It consisted of a new automatic ibly not fulfilling NCT requirements. Those number plate reading camera to detect people might accordingly be in very dangerous unlicensed vehicles. It is secure and tamper- vehicles, creating hazards to themselves and, just proof, can work day and night and can detect as importantly, to those they meet on the roads. vehicles travelling in excess of 100 mph. The speed camera technology it employs works in the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform same manner as the speed detection vans in that (Mr. McDowell): I am grateful to Deputy the cameras are located in special vans. They are Keaveney for raising this matter. I share her con- 1759 Garda 23 March 2005. Investigations 1760

[Mr. McDowell.] Garda Investigations. cern at the presence of untaxed vehicles on our Mr. Rabbitte: I am obliged to the Ceann roads. As she points out, honest motorists are fed Comhairle for permitting me yet again to raise up with the small hardcore who continually evade the Dean Lyons case, the facts of which are well paying their road taxes. The Exchequer loses mil- known. lions in revenue each year to those evaders. In July 1997, Dean Lyons, a homeless heroin I was interested to hear the Deputy say that addict, was arrested and questioned in connection she had raised this issue in the past with the with the brutal killing of two vulnerable women Department of Transport and was told it was the in sheltered health board accommodation in responsibility of the Department of Justice, Grangegorman. He was questioned by detective Equality and Law Reform. If I were circulating a gardaı´ in a video and tape recording suite and, as script tonight, it might give the opposite was his wont, admitted to every charge put to impression, so I am not circulating a script. I will him. His parents said he was completely disori- confine myself to taking a positive view of what ented and was swaying and slurring his words. the Deputy said. After they left him he was questioned again but Essentially, this is a number plate recognition this time there was no video or audio taping. As system. I believe that in the United Kingdom it is a result, he made a written statement containing operated by non-police personnel. It can be left a chronologically correct narrative about the deployed merely to record that a particular car murders in clear grammatical English and with passed a particular place. The fact that a car is on vivid and chilling accuracy he described the mur- the road can then be relayed either for immediate der scene. On the basis of his confession he was or subsequent evaluation to decide whether the charged with the murders. If his trial had pro- car was taxed. Such equipment can clearly be use- ceeded, it would have been impossible for him to ful but it would depend on the equipment being withdraw a confession that contained such accur- interoperable with the computerised motor ate and unpublished detail. We know now that vehicle file system of the Department of the Dean Lyons did not commit the Grangegorman Environment, Heritage and Local Government. murders and the Garda Commissioner has apolo- It would also have to be interoperable with the gised to his family. summonsing method being used in the points A number of questions arise, fundamental system for speeding offences and so on. questions that so far neither the Garda nor the Three Departments have a responsibility for Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform this issue which is contiguous and which should has answered. How did it transpire that a strung- be managed in a co-ordinated way. Rather than out heroin addict confessed in such a manner and trying to pass the buck back, I will call on my in such accurate and unpublished detail when he colleagues in the Departments of Transport and did not commit the murders? Only the real killer the Environment, Heritage and Local Govern- and the investigating gardaı´ could have known ment to attempt to ensure that technology of this the detail in his statement. kind is available to the Garda Sı´ocha´na. There is no need for me to spell out the only As the Deputy knows, we are increasing Garda reasonable inference to be drawn. It is, unless it numbers, currently by 2,000 extra recruits. The can somehow be explained, a profoundly dis- road traffic corps will be increased from about turbing inference for the administration of justice 500 to 1,200 so that on a cumulative basis, 700 of in this democracy. Why was Dean Lyons held in the new recruits will be allocated to road traffic custody for eight months and then released with- duties over the next three years. I want to ensure out explanation? Why was another man who con- that those additional gardaı´ are on frontline polic- fessed to the Grangegorman murders never ing duties and not spending their time dealing brought to trial? with paper work in back offices. The Garda Com- The internal inquiry conducted by the Garda missioner is in full agreement with me on this. Sı´ocha´na has been kept secret and up to now the To get compliance in areas such as this and to Minister, Deputy McDowell, has demonstrated save valuable Garda resources, a computerised little public interest in confronting the impli- system which is interoperable with the databases cations of this case or in allaying public disquiet. to which I referred is the appropriate way for- This was a particularly unequal confrontation ward. I thank the Deputy for raising the matter between the forces of the State and one of its and I intend to discuss it with the Minister for more inadequate citizens. Law-abiding citizens Transport, Deputy Cullen, and the Minister for cannot avoid the conclusion that Dean Lyons, for the Environment, Heritage and Local Govern- whatever reason, was stitched up by a member or ment, Deputy Roche. I will then give the Deputy members of the Garda Sı´ocha´na for a crime he a considered response regarding the logistical did not commit. implications of mirroring in this State the system Two vulnerable women have been murdered which operates in Northern Ireland and in other and the murder remains unsolved. Could it hap- parts of the United Kingdom. I hope that the pen again? The Minister must confront the impli- initiative the Deputy has taken in drawing this cations of this case made in my submission. He technological possibility to my attention will not must cause these extraordinary events to be prop- be wasted for want of co-ordination between the erly investigated and report the outcome and con- three responsible Departments. clusions to this House together with whatever 1761 Garda 23 March 2005. Investigations 1762 recommendations are necessary to protect against mation otherwise. The Supreme Court has upheld a recurrence. this policy. The function with regard to the pros- ecution of alleged offences is the responsibility of Mr. McDowell: I thank Deputy Rabbitte for the Director of Public Prosecutions who is inde- raising this matter. The facts of this case have pendent in the exercise of his functions. It would, been outlined to the House on a number of therefore, not be appropriate to intervene or occasions. I do not propose to set them out again comment on his decisions. in full, but a brief summary may be helpful. As the Deputy stated, the Garda Sı´ocha´na The main facts, as notified to me by the Garda press and public relations office published on 24 authorities, are as follows. Sylvia Shiels and Mary February on behalf of the Garda Commissioner Callinan were murdered on the night of 6-7 a notice in a number of newspapers in which it March 1997 as they were sleeping. Public reaction stated that it is satisfied that Dean Lyons had no to the murders and the reaction of the House participation in the murders and that the Garda were ones of strong condemnation. In July of that appreciate the embarrassment suffered by his year, the late Mr. Dean Lyons apparently made family as a result of criminal charges preferred a full confession to investigating Garda officers of against him and subsequently withdrawn. The his alleged guilt in the double murder. This con- Garda Sı´ocha´na regret and apologise to the fession was recorded on audio-video tape. Later family of Mr. Lyons for any embarrassment the same day he apparently signed a further caused. I have already expressed the hope that detailed written admission of his alleged involve- this apology will bring closure for the Lyons ment in the murders. It is claimed that at his family. request this second interview was not audio-visu- The Deputy nonetheless requests a full investi- ally recorded. gation into the circumstances of the charging of Following consultation between the Garda Mr. Lyons. Consideration of his request would Sı´ocha´na and the Office of the Director of Public have to be in conjunction with consideration of Prosecutions, Dean Lyons was charged with one representations received by me from solicitors of the murders at Grangegorman. In August representing the sister of one of the victims which 1997, another person, who had been arrested and request that there be an independent public detained during the investigation of another inquiry into the Garda investigation of the mur- double murder, made a confession with regard to der. The request is grounded on the protections the Grangegorman murders. However, that per- afforded by the European Convention on son later retracted those admissions. This all hap- Human Rights. pened before the change of Government. I indicated to the House previously that I am As a result of the admissions made by the not satisfied that the Garda investigation has second person, the Garda Commissioner fallen short of the standard required by the Euro- appointed an Assistant Commissioner to review pean Convention on Human Rights or of the all available evidence on these murders. The potential effectiveness of a full public tribunal of Garda authorities state that this investigation inquiry. However, in view of the matters raised, indicated that Mr. Lyons did not commit the mur- and to assist me in my consideration of the ders in question. The Assistant Commissioner request, I asked the solicitor to whom I have was also of the view that the inquiry established already referred to outline in further detail the that the manner in which Mr. Lyons had been reasons he considers a public inquiry to be neces- interviewed with regard to the case was in com- sary. I have received a response and, while it does pliance with the regulations that had come into not put forward further details, I referred the cor- effect a short time earlier on 1 March. respondence to the Attorney General. In Following completion of this review, the assist- addition, I expect to receive a detailed report, ant commissioner submitted a report to the which I requested from the Garda authorities on Director of Public Prosecutions. In April 1998, matters arising in this case. I will consider the after consideration of the report, the Director of matter further, taking into account any further Public Prosecutions decided that criminal pro- submissions made to me, advice from the ceedings against Mr. Lyons should be discon- Attorney General and the further report from the tinued. In July 1999, Mr. Lyons, at his solicitor’s Garda authorities. offices, presented a signed and witnessed state- As I previously indicated to the House, the ment denying any involvement in the Grange- Deputy will appreciate that the criminal investi- gorman murders. Having considered the file sub- gation into these two murders is not closed and mitted to him by the Garda on the second this would have clear implications for what individual, who had confessed to the murders and further action, if any, I may consider. As a gen- later retracted the confession, the DPP decided eral principle, the release into the public domain that no prosecution should take place against of any existing report on the conduct of an inves- any person. tigation which is not closed, the holding of an As the House is aware, when the DPP decides inquiry or the issuing of an explanation of events, not to prosecute in a particular case, the reasons all of which have been suggested in this case, may for the decision are given to the State Solicitor be prejudicial to any prosecution with regard to and the investigating gardaı´. The director has crimes which might be commenced in the future. stated that it is not his policy to disclose this infor- Therefore, I would also have to consult with the 1763 The 23 March 2005. Adjournment 1764

[Mr. McDowell.] a´na Complaints Act 1986, for me to appoint a DPP as to whether any publication of a new person to conduct a sworn inquiry into any alle- report would tend to prejudice the live possibility gation of misuse of powers by a member of the of a prosecution. Garda Sı´ocha´na. I will inform the House when I have completed my consideration of the matter. A statutory provision exists under section 12 of the Dublin Police Act 1924, as amended recently The Da´il adjourned at 9.30 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. and updated by section 15(4) of the Garda Sı´och- on Thursday, 24 March 2004. 1765 Questions— 23 March 2005. Written Answers 1766

Written Answers offices of the HSE will be put in place; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [9496/05] The following are questions tabled by Members Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children for written response and the ministerial replies (Ms Harney): As indicated in the Health Service received from the Departments (unrevised). Executive’s organisational design, the local health offices will be key units of delivery for its primary Questions Nos. 1 to 9, inclusive, answered community and continuing care directorate. Each orally. local health office will be located within the exist- ing 32 community care offices. At present there Independent Review. is a general manager assigned with responsibility 10. Mr. Penrose asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- for managing all community based services from ster for Health and Children the action she these offices. Following the filling of the local intends to take arising from the report of the health office manager positions these roles will be independent review into the circumstances of the expanded to reflect the design of the local health death of Ro´ isı´n Ruddle on 1 July 2003; and if she office in delivering all non-acute services in the will make a statement on the matter. [9418/05] respective functional areas. The process for filling the position of manager Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children of each of the local health offices is underway. (Ms Harney): The report of the panel established The agreement reached between the Health Ser- by the former Minister for Health and Children vice Executive and IMPACT on the re-assign- to carry out an independent review of the circum- ment of senior managers in December 2004, pro- stances surrounding the death of Ro´ isı´n Ruddle vides that appointments are to be made to the was submitted to me on 7 February 2005 and it following positions: director regional health office was published on my Department’s website on — four posts; national hospitals office assistant Thursday, 10 February. director — four posts; hospital network manager The panel’s principal finding was that if — ten posts; local health office manager — 32 Ro´ isı´n’s operation had gone ahead as planned on posts; primary community and continuing care 30 June 2003, the likelihood of her survival would assistant director — six posts; primary community have been greater, and that the fundamental and continuing care national care group manager reason behind the deferral of her surgery was the — seven posts; and population health assistant inability of Our Lady’s Hospital to recruit-retain director — two posts. experienced specialist nursing staff. The Health Service Executive has informed me I have already told the House that one of the that the Public Appointments Service has been recommendations of the report of the expert engaged to conduct the filling of these positions group on midwifery and children’s nursing edu- and the recruitment process is now underway. cation, the introduction of a direct entry under- Eligible candidates were invited to apply for the graduate programme for combined children’s and relevant post(s) before 28 February 2005. general nursing, must be implemented. I have Interviews have commenced for some posts also stated that it will be necessary to reduce the while others, including the local health office length of the existing post-registration prog- manager posts, are currently being scheduled. As ramme for qualification as a children’s nurse. I the Deputy will appreciate with candidate pools will shortly be announcing how the report of the ranging from 50 to over 100 for certain posts, this expert group on midwifery and children’s nursing process will take some time. However, it is education can best be implemented. intended to complete the interview process by the I understand that a number of key recommend- end of May 2005. ations in the report have already been acted upon by Our Lady’s Hospital. These include the National Cancer Strategy. appointment of a clinical bed manager, the 12. Mr. Naughten asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- appointment of a full-time nurse manager to ster for Health and Children when she will pub- manage nursing recruitment and retention, and lish the new cancer strategy; and if she will make the establishment of links with similar institutions a statement on the matter. [9469/05] internationally. Some of the other recommend- ations, such as the recommendation that the Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children hospital should consider ways to avoid patients (Ms Harney): The national cancer forum is cur- having to undertake two journeys in quick suc- rently finalising a new national cancer strategy cession — the first for pre-operative care and the which is expected to be completed in the summer. second for the surgery itself — are currently The national cancer forum, a multi-disciplinary being considered by the hospital. The hospital has group of experts in cancer care, has conducted an told my Department it will be forwarding its extensive consultation process with professional official response to the report shortly. bodies, voluntary organisations and the general public. In developing an organisational model for the delivery of cancer treatment services, the Health Services. forum’s considerations have been informed by 11. Mr. Hayes asked the Ta´naiste and Minister the broad strategic context in which the cancer for Health and Children when the 32 local health strategy exists, a review of the current status of 1767 Questions— 23 March 2005. Written Answers 1768

[Ms Harney.] the application of patient charges, together with cancer care, a review of the literature evidence the collection of outstanding debts, is a matter for concerning key aspects of the organisation of can- individual hospitals, including voluntary cer services and a review of international models hospitals, and for the Health Service Executive of care. in its role in managing and delivering health and The forum has concluded that the current frag- personal social services. My Department has, mented arrangements for the delivery of cancer therefore, passed the Deputy’s question to the services cannot be recommended to deliver best chief officer of each of Health Service Executive’s quality cancer care. Cancer care is a dynamic pro- regional areas to reply to her directly in the cess involving the interaction of many different matter. elements of the health system. Although they are often considered separately, the overall quality Cancer Screening Programme. and performance of services as delivered to patients is dependent in a very significant way on 15. Mr. Noonan asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- how well each of these elements integrate and co- ster for Health and Children the steps she is tak- ordinate with each other. They must be planned ing to roll out the national cervical screening and organised in a manner which facilitates inte- programme; and if she will make a statement on gration so that, from the perspective of the user, the matter. [9465/05] the whole system operates in a complimentary 101. Ms Enright asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- and efficient manner. ster for Health and Children when the national The new strategy will have regard to the multi- cervical screening programme will be rolled out faceted aspects of cancer control. The key priority nationally; and if she will make a statement on in the development of improved cancer care is the matter. [9462/05] that cancer patients will have access to multi-dis- ciplinary care to ensure optimum treatment and 111. Mr. Eamon Ryan asked the Ta´naiste and best outcomes in line with international best prac- Minister for Health and Children if, in view of tice. The strategy will set out the key priorities Ireland’s high rate of invasive cervical cancer, she for the development of cancer services over the plans to act on the report commissioned by the coming years and will make recommendations in Health Board Executive (details supplied) which relation to health promotion, screening and early recommends that in order to achieve an 80% detection, cancer treatment services, genetics, reduction in cervical cancer in the Irish popu- supportive care, research and survivorship. This lation, there is a need for an organised population is especially important as more people are living health-based programme rather than continuance longer with cancer than in previous years. with opportunistic screening. [9444/05] Oncology services nationally have experience significant development and expansion in recent Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children years. The key goal of the national cancer (Ms Harney): I proppose to take Questions Nos. strategy 1996 was to achieve a 15% decrease in 15, 101 and 111 together. mortality from cancer in the under 65 year age I am committed to the national roll out of a group in the ten year period from 1994. An exter- cervical screening programme in line with inter- nal evaluation of the extent to which the objec- national best practise. International evidence tives of the national cancer strategy 1996 have demonstrates the proven efficacy of programmes been met demonstrated that this figure was that are effectively managed and meet quality achieved in 2001, which was three years ahead of assurance standards. Careful planning and con- target. The Government is committed to making sultation with relevant professional and advocacy the full range of cancer services available and stakeholders is required before I make definite accessible to cancer patients nationally. policy decisions on a national roll out. The former Health Board Executive com- Question No. 13 answered with Question missioned an international expert in cervical scre- No. 9. ening to examine the feasibility and implications of a national roll out of a cervical screening prog- Debt Collection. ramme. The examination included an evaluation of the current pilot programme in the mid west- 14. Ms B. Moynihan-Cronin asked the Ta´naiste ern area, quality assurance, laboratory capacity and Minister for Health and Children if her atten- and organisation and the establishment of tion has been drawn to the fact that publicly \ national governance arrangements. The expert’s funded hospitals spent more than 300,000 on the report was published on 14 December 2004. My employment of debt collectors during 2004; the Department is now consulting the Irish College amount of unpaid debts collected by such agen- of General Practitioners, An Bord Altranais, the cies on behalf of these hospitals; if she has under- Academy of Medical Laboratory Science, the taken any value for money assessment of the use Institute of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists of of such debt collectors; and if she will make a the Royal College of Physicians of Ireland, the statement on the matter. [9412/05] faculty of pathology of the Royal College of Phys- Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children icians of Ireland, the Women’s Health Council (Ms Harney): The management and control of and the Irish Cancer Society. The consultation 1769 Questions— 23 March 2005. Written Answers 1770 with these key stakeholders is well advanced and will be rolled out nationally; and if she will make will be completed in a matter of weeks. a statement on the matter. [9458/05] The number of smear tests carried out annually is approximately 230,000 and represents an 30. Ms Enright asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- increase of almost 20% in recent years. To meet ster for Health and Children when BreastCheck this increased demand additional cumulative will be available to women in the west and south- funding of approximately \14.5 million has been ern area; and if she will make a statement on the provided by my Department since 2002 to matter. [9460/05] enhance the laboratory and colposcopy services. 61. Mr. Cuffe asked the Ta´naiste and Minister The pilot cervical screening programme com- for Health and Children the date on which the menced in October 2000 and is available to eli- BreastCheck screening programme will be gible women resident in Counties Limerick, Clare extended throughout the country; and if she will and Tipperary North. Under the programme cer- make a statement on the matter. [9439/05] vical screening is being offered free of charge to approximately 74,000 women in the 25 to 60 age 133. Mr. O’Shea asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- group, at five year intervals. ster for Health and Children her proposals to In addition, my Department allocated a further continue the roll out of BreastCheck; and if she \1.1 million to the programme on an ongoing will make a statement on the matter. [9550/05] basis to complete the transition of the remaining Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children laboratories to new and more effective testing (Ms Harney): I propose to take Questions Nos. and to support the development of quality assur- 19, 30, 61 and 133 together. ance and training programmes. These are essen- I am confident that the target date of 2007 for tial preparatory elements in a national roll out. the expansion of BreastCheck nationally will be met. The national breast screening programme Question No. 16 answered with Question commenced in 2000 and currently covers the No. 8. eastern, north eastern, midland and parts of the Hospital Inquiry. south eastern areas of the country. Screening is being offered free of charge to all women in those 17. Ms Burton asked the Ta´naiste and Minister areas in the target age group of 50 to 64 years. for Health and Children the expected completion Since the programme commenced in 2000 cumu- date of the inquiry to be chaired by Judge Mau- lative revenue funding of approximately \60 mill- reen Harding-Clarke into the activities of a per- ion and capital funding of \12 million has been son (details supplied); if her attention has been allocated to support the programme. drawn to the call made by a number of victims The national roll out of the programme is now for the establishment of a redress board; if she a major priority in the development of cancer ser- intends to act on this suggestion; if she has held vices. This will ensure that all women in the rel- the promised meeting on this matter from Patient evant age group in every county will have access Focus; and if she will make a statement on the to breast screening and follow up treatment matter. [9400/05] where appropriate. The national roll out of the Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children programme required detailed planning for the (Ms Harney): On 9 March last I met representa- development of infrastructure to provide for two tives of Patient Focus, an advocacy group which static clinical units, one in Cork and the other in represents, inter alia, former patients of Dr. Galway. Michael Neary. The group has requested the A capital investment of approximately \21 establishment of a redress board to process com- million has been approved to construct and equip plaints relating to the provision of services at Our the two clinical units and to ensure that mobile Lady of Lourdes Hospital to a number of its units are available to screen women in the rel- members. evant age group throughout the country. I advised the group that I was sympathetic in Additional capital funding of \3 million has been principle to the proposal but that I would await approved for the relocation and development of the report of the Lourdes Hospital inquiry before the symptomatic breast disease unit, in tandem consulting with Government in the matter. I also with the BreastCheck development at University advised the group that I intend to meet it again College Hospital, Galway. Design briefs in at an early date following completion of the respect of the capital projects have been com- inquiry. I recently met the chairperson of the pleted. It is intended to progress the devel- inquiry. The work of the inquiry is continuing and opments at Cork and Galway simultaneously and I look forward to early receipt of its report. it is anticipated that the advertisement for the appointment of a design team will be placed in Question No. 18 answered with Question the EU Journal shortly. No. 9. Any woman, irrespective of her age or resi- dence, who has immediate concerns or symptoms Cancer Screening Programme. should consult her GP who, where appropriate, 19. Mr. McGinley asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- will refer her to the symptomatic services in her ster for Health and Children when BreastCheck area. 1771 Questions— 23 March 2005. Written Answers 1772

Question No. 20 answered with Question waiting in accident and emergency departments No. 8. for admission to hospital on a daily basis. However, the Health Service Executive has com- Ministerial Appointments. menced providing daily data on accident and emergency activity on their web site. My Depart- 21. Mr. Gilmore asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- ment has asked the director of the national ster for Health and Children the progress made hospitals office-HSE to forward available infor- with regard to the recruitment of a chief execu- mation to the Deputy directly. tive officer for the Health Service Executive; when it is expected that an appointment will be made; and if she will make a statement on the MRSA Incidence. matter. [9404/05] 24. Mr. Wall asked the Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children her views on whether it Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children is inappropriate that MRSA patients are nursed (Ms Harney): The Interim Health Service Execu- in open wards with a huge risk for other patients, tive, iHSE, awarded a contract to Price- particularly those patients on chemotherapy who waterhouseCoopers, PWC, following a tendering are unable to fight infection; and if she will make process, to manage the recruitment of the chief a statement on the matter. [9434/05] executive officer of the health service executive. In September 2004, Professor Aidan Halligan 138. Mr. O’Shea asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- — deputy chief medical officer in the UK — was ster for Health and Children her views on announced as the first chief executive officer of whether the MRSA epidemic in hospitals here is the Health Service Executive. In November 2004 contributed to by overcrowding and lack of Professor Halligan announced his withdrawal proper facilities for cancer patients; and if she will from the process due to personal reasons. make a statement on the matter. [9555/05] Following a recommendation from the board Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children of the iHSE, I appointed the executive chairman (Ms Harney): I propose to take Questions Nos. of the iHSE as interim chief executive of the 24 and 138 together. Health Service Executive with effect from 1 January 2005. The interim chief executive officer In 1995, a Department of Health committee will remain in this position until a chief executive comprising representatives from the Department officer is appointed. of Health, consultant microbiologists, specialists in public health medicine and general practice PWC has continued as the recruitment agency and a representative from the Association of to manage the recruitment of the permanent chief Infection Control Nurses produced a set of guide- executive officer for the Health Service Execu- lines for the management of MRSA in acute tive, HSE, and this recruitment process has been hospital wards, including specialist units. The underway since early December 2004. implementation and operation of these guidelines A recruitment subcommittee of the board of in acute hospitals is a matter for those hospitals the HSE is responsible for the selection of a in the first instance. CEO. The subcommittee is chaired by Mr. Liam An infection control sub-committee of the Downey, the chairperson of the board. The National Committee for Strategy for the Control recruitment subcommittee met on the 18 of Antimicrobial Resistance in Ireland, SARI, February to assess progress and decide on a suit- has now prepared a draft revised set of guide- able shortlist of potential candidates. Formal lines. These guidelines are still at the consultation interviews were held on 8 and 9 March 2005 and stage and cover a number of areas including the process remains ongoing. When the recruit- physical cleanliness of the environment, hand ment process is complete, the board will recom- hygiene, antibiotic stewardship programmes, and mend a person to me for appointment as CEO of availability of isolation facilities as well as screen- the HSE. ing and detection protocols. The Health Act 2004 provided for the Health Question No. 22 answered with Question Service Executive, which was established on 1 No. 8. January 2005. Under the Act, the executive has the responsibility to manage and deliver or Hospital Services. arrange to be delivered on its behalf, health and 23. Mr. Howlin asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- personal social services. The implications of the ster for Health and Children the average number revised guidelines for the health system and of patients on trolleys or chairs awaiting treat- issues around their implementation will be a ment or assessment in accident and emergency matter for the HSE to consider. units for each day since 1 January 2005; her views on whether such numbers are satisfactory; and if Hospital Services. she will make a statement on the matter. 25. Mr. O’Shea asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- [9408/05] ster for Health and Children her plans to provide Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children radiotherapy services for patients in the south (Ms Harney): My Department does not collate east; and if she will make a statement on the data on the number of patients reported to be matter. [9432/05] 1773 Questions— 23 March 2005. Written Answers 1774

Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children (Ms Harney): The Government is committed to (Ms Harney): I propose to take Questions Nos. making the full range of cancer services available 26 and 131 together. and accessible to cancer patients throughout Any woman, irrespective of her age or resi- Ireland. To this end, we will provide considerable dence, who has concerns about breast cancer investment in radiation oncology facilities in the should contact her GP who, where appropriate, coming years. will refer her to the symptomatic services in her The Government in its decision on radio- area. More than \60 million has been invested in therapy services remained open to the provision the development of symptomatic breast disease of a satellite radiation oncology unit in Water- services since 2000. This investment has enabled ford. We are determined to deliver enhanced ser- the appointment of additional surgeons with an vices for the whole population as soon as poss- interest in breast disease, histopathologists and ible. There is unanimity about the urgent need radiologists to enhance the delivery of breast can- for significantly enhanced services in the major cer services nationally. population centres of Dublin, Cork and Galway. Data supplied by the national cancer registry I will keep the question of networked satellite show that the overall survival rate from cancer has increased between the periods 1995-97 and locations under active review. 1998-2000 with the five year survival rate from The immediate developments in Cork and breast cancer increasing from 73% to 79% over Galway will result in the provision of an the period. additional five linear accelerators. Five additional The full implementation of BreastCheck consultant radiation oncologists are being requires significant capital and human resources, recruited for this service. These developments including two static clinical units, mobile screen- will significantly improve access to radiotherapy ing units, multi-disciplinary consultant teams and for patients in the south east and throughout the radiographers together with technical and admin- country. istrative support. A capital investment of \21 As recommended in the report on the develop- million has been approved to construct and equip ment of radiation oncology services in Ireland, the two clinical units, one in Cork and the other the national radiation oncology co-ordinating in Galway, and to provide for mobile units. The group, NROCG, has been established. The group investment will ensure that breast screening and comprises clinical, technical, managerial, follow up treatment, where appropriate, is avail- academic and nursing expertise from different able to all women in the target group throughout geographic regions. The group’s remit the country. Additional capital funding of \3 mill- encompasses recommending measures to facili- ion has been approved for the relocation and tate improved access to existing and planned ser- development of the symptomatic breast disease vices, including transport and accommodation. unit, in tandem with the BreastCheck develop- The group is expected to develop proposals in ment, at University College Hospital, Galway. these important areas. The group will also advise The design briefs in respect of the capital pro- on quality assurance protocols and guidelines for jects have been completed. It is anticipated that the referral of public patients to private facilities. the advertisement for the appointment of a The NROCG is currently developing a design team will be placed in the EU journal National Telesynergy Network for radiation shortly. I am confident that the target of date of oncology services. Arrangements are being made 2007 for the expansion of BreastCheck nationally will be met. to install this technology at Waterford Regional Hospital which will enable the hospital to develop Convention on Human Rights and Biomedicine. improved linkages with Cork University Hospital and St. Luke’s Hospital, Dublin and reduce pati- 27. Mr. Sargent asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- ent and consultant travel time. ster for Health and Children the reason Ireland has failed to join 31 other European states in rati- Cancer Screening Programme. fying the Council of Europe’s 1997 Convention on Human Rights and Biomedicine; and if she 26. Mr. Coveney asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- will make a statement on the matter. [9445/05] ster for Health and Children if over 200 lives per annum would be saved in the south and west if Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children the BreastCheck programme was up and running; (Ms Harney): Ireland is not a signatory to the and if she will make a statement on the Council of Europe Convention on Human Rights matter. [9518/05] and Biomedicine as there are difficulties with some articles that have implications for the 131. Mr. O’Shea asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- destruction of human embryos. The question of ster for Health and Children her views on reports our signing the convention with formal reser- that failure to roll out BreastCheck in the south vations in respect of articles with which we have and west may result in the deaths of up to 400 difficulty has been kept under review. women; the steps she is taking to address this sit- I expect the report of the Commission on uation; and if she will make a statement on the Assisted Human Reproduction very shortly. matter. [9548/05] Cloning and embryo research are among a 1775 Questions— 23 March 2005. Written Answers 1776

[Ms Harney.] munity and continuing care and shared services number of issues that are currently being exam- directorates of the executive. ined by the commission in the context of its prep- Specific recommendations of Deloitte & Tou- aration of a report on the possible approaches to che which are being advanced under the auspices the regulation of all aspects of assisted human of the HSE include: a programme to introduce a reproduction and the social, ethical and legal national client index. This index will avoid the factors to be taken into account in determining data integrity issues which came to light at the public policy in this area. When completed, the time of the extension of medical card eligibility commission’s report will provide the basis for to all over 70s; and a programme to standardise informing public debate prior to the finalisation the business processes around the medical card of any policy proposals. The question of ratifying scheme and to examine the ICT and technical the convention will be examined in the light of requirements for the modernisation of this the outcome of that debate. scheme. This will also be extended to the com- munity drugs schemes. General Medical Service Review. The HSE will provide a unified structure to standardise the business processes and provide 28. Mr. O’Dowd asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- the necessary technical support structures. Both ster for Health and Children if she intends to programmes are being led by a dedicated team of implement any recommendations made in a HSE officials under the auspices of the national report (details supplied), if so, if she will report schemes modernisation group. on the recommendations she intends to In response to the recommendations regarding implement; and if she will make a statement on the need for improved financial forecasting pro- the matter. [9485/05] cedures for the GMS schemes, the forecasting 58. Mr. O’Dowd asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- model has been adapted by the HSE shared ser- ster for Health and Children if, as recommended vices — primary care reimbursement service to by a report (details supplied), she intends to rad- allow for three-year forecasting. ically review the expenditure under the medical In the light of the recommendations regarding card and other State medical schemes, including the cost of the GMS, further detailed ongoing the long-term illness and drug refund schemes; if analysis is being carried out by my Department so, when she intends to carry out such a review; in conjunction with the Department of Finance, and if she will make a statement on the and with the assistance of the former GMS matter. [9484/05] (Payments) Board, now the HSE shared services — primary care reimbursement service to identify 105. Mr. Costello asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- policy options for managing the unsustainable ster for Health and Children her views on the growth in expenditure recorded in the schemes, recently published Review of Governance and including the cost implications of the decision to Accountability Mechanisms in the General Medi- extend medical card eligibility to all over 70s. cal Service (details supplied), particularly in In addition, the then Minister for Health and regard to its findings on the issuing of medical Children in February 2004 established a national cards to the over 70’s; the action, she intends to drugs prescribing group to evaluate proposals in take on foot of the report’s findings; and if she relation to the control of drugs costs contained in will make a statement on the matter. [9402/05] the review and other reports, for example, Brennan, to determine their feasibility and early Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children delivery as part of the health reform agenda. (Ms Harney): I propose to take Questions Nos. These exercises will form the basis for initiat- 28, 58 and 105 together. ives to control costs in the context of the overall The review was commissioned by my Depart- care strategy. All aspects of the drug delivery ment with a view to analysing governance and system from the manufacturer to the patient are accountability mechanisms in the General Medi- currently under review. This, along with the two cal Service, GMS, schemes, the respective roles reports mentioned above, will form an important of the Department, former health boards and the ongoing input into the determination of policy former GMS Payments Board in the operation of priorities for the GMS schemes and for their cost- the schemes, and issues relating to the increasing effective management by the HSE. cost trends in the GMS generally. Since the review was completed a number of important Pharmacy Review Group. reforms have taken place in the health sector to give effect to a number of its recommendations. 29. Ms Shortall asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- The establishment of the Health Service ster for Health and Children the position regard- ing her consideration of the report of the phar- Executive on 1 January 2005 has given a practical macy review group; and if she will make a effect to the recommendations in relation to statement on the matter. [9426/05] governance and financing of the GMS schemes, through the creation of a unified management Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children structure for the General Medical Service. All (Ms Harney): The pharmacy review group sub- aspects of the management and operation of the mitted its report to the previous Minister for schemes will now be through the primary, com- Health and Children on 31 January 2003 and it 1777 Questions— 23 March 2005. Written Answers 1778 was published in February 2004. The Deputy will Hospital Charges. appreciate the complex issues which the review 32. Ms Lynch asked the Ta´naiste and Minister group’s report raised and the need for careful and for Health and Children if her attention has been considered deliberations on its recommendations. drawn to recent figures produced by the Central I intend to bring proposals to Government on the Statistics Office showing that hospital service development of a modern framework for phar- charges have risen by almost 60% in three years, macy in the near future. more than ten times the rate of inflation; if her attention has further been drawn to the hardship Question No. 30 answered with Question that can be created by such huge increases in No. 19. charges; the steps she intends to take to address this situation; and if she will make a statement on Diabetes Incidence. the matter. [9409/05] 31. Mr. McCormack asked the Ta´naiste and Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children Minister for Health and Children the steps she (Ms Harney): On 1 January 2005, the public intends to introduce to prevent and to treat dia- hospital statutory inpatient charge was increased betes in view of the fact that the incidence of dia- by \10 to \55 per night, subject to a maximum of betes in Ireland is set to double by the year 2020; \550 in any 12 consecutive months. The charge and if she will make a statement on the for a visit to an accident and emergency depart- matter. [9452/05] ment was also increased by \10 to \55. This 65. Mr. McCormack asked the Ta´naiste and increase in the accident and emergency charge Minister for Health and Children her views on will facilitate more appropriate attendances at whether the prevention and treatment of diabetes accident and emergency units by reducing an here is up to international standards; and if she incentive for people to attend accident and emer- will make a statement on the matter. [9455/05] gency when they might appropriately receive ser- vices from general practitioners. 74. Mr. G. Mitchell asked the Ta´naiste and The charges do not apply to a number of categ- Minister for Health and Children her views on ories of person, including those with full eligi- whether there is an adequate number of doctors, bility, women receiving services in respect of nurses and dieticians in the health system to deal motherhood, children up to the age of six weeks with diabetes patients; if she has plans to improve and children suffering from prescribed long-term this area; and if she will make a statement on the diseases. Additionally, the accident and emer- matter. [9451/05] gency charge does not apply in circumstances Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children where the person has been referred by a medical (Ms Harney): I propose to take Questions Nos. practitioner or where the attendance results in a 31, 65 and 74 together. hospital admission. Diabetes Mellitus is an important public health The daily cost of private and semi-private condition which has become more common in accommodation in public hospitals was also developed countries over recent years due to an increased by 25% with effect from 1 January ageing population and lifestyle factors. There is, 2005. This income goes towards supporting ser- however, scope for prevention where good inte- vices in public hospitals. In the interests of equity, gration between primary and secondary care ser- it is Government policy to gradually eliminate the vices and multi-disciplinary working is considered effective subsidy for private stays in public key to enhancing the quality of life of individuals hospital beds and relieve the general taxpayers of with diabetes. the burden of carrying these costs. Even with this In 2004, the Minister for Health and Children increase, the cost of providing services to private established a national diabetes group chaired by patients in the major hospitals remains signifi- the chief medical officer to review diabetes and cantly greater than the income from the private make recommendations for future service needs insurance companies, in many cases. The increase including preventive initiatives. The group has being implemented is aimed at closing that gap. received a number of submissions and reviewed Under the Health Act, 1970, determination of the international experiences relating to the pre- eligibility for health services is the responsibility vention and management of diabetes. People with of the Health Service Executive, HSE. It should diabetes are diagnosed and treated in a number be noted that where exemptions do not apply and of different settings within our health services. A cases of exceptional need arise, the chief officer key requirement is a patient-centred model in of the relevant HSE area has discretion to waive which diabetes services are planned and delivered the charge where undue hardship would other- across the traditional, professional and organis- wise be caused. It is open to all persons to apply ational boundaries to focus on meeting patients’ to the Health Service Executive for health ser- needs. This also applies to the prevention of dia- vices if they are unable to provide these services betes and its complications. The diabetes strategy for themselves or their dependents without will provide a framework for the delivery of dia- hardship. betes services within the HSE and it is proposed to enter into consultation with the executive as to Hospital Accommodation. the most appropriate way to progress this issue. 33. Ms O’Sullivan asked the Ta´naiste and 1779 Questions— 23 March 2005. Written Answers 1780

[ Ms O’Sullivan.] board meetings in public; and if she will make a Minister for Health and Children the number of statement on the matter. [9495/05] beds provided to date in regard to the commit- Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children ment given in the national health strategy to pro- (Ms Harney): The Health Act 2004 sets out the vide an additional 3000 hospital beds; the legislative framework within which the Health hospitals in each case; the projected number that Service Executive must operate. It is a matter for will be provided before the end of 2005; the the board of the executive to regulate its own number of beds lost since 1997 in each such procedures and this would include whether its hospital; and if she will make a statement on the meetings are to be held in public. I have discussed matter. [9416/05] this issue with the chairperson of the board of the Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children executive and he has advised me that, while it is (Ms Harney): The health strategy contains a com- not intended to hold public board meetings, it is mitment that over ten years a total of 3,000 acute intended that the agenda and minutes of board beds will be added to the system. In this context meetings will be made available publicly via the funding has already been provided for an website of the HSE. additional 900 beds in acute hospitals throughout The HSE is mindful that access to information the country, 700 of which were in place at the end and communications generally, in an open and of January 2005. It is envisaged that the remain- transparent manner, is an important component ing 200 beds will open before the end of 2005. of best practice in management and governance There has been no overall diminution in the of the health services. In this context, the Health Act 2004 provides that all statutory reports of the number of beds since 1997 in the hospitals men- HSE, such as the corporate plan, the national ser- tioned with the exception of orthopaedic beds vice plan and the executive’s annual report must having been transferred from Our Lady’s be published on the internet after having been Hospital, Navan, to Our Lady of Lourdes laid before the Houses of the Oireachtas. The Hospital, Drogheda, and from Kilcreene Ortho- executive is also required to prepare a code of paedic Hospital to Waterford Regional Hospital. governance for ministerial approval, and must It is important to note that the numbers of beds arrange for publication of the approved code. available in any hospital may fluctuate over time It is appropriate to point out here that the Act depending on service demands and other factors includes a provision relating to attendance by the such as seasonal closures and refurbishment. My chief executive officer of the executive before an Department will provide details separately to Oireachtas committee, to give an account of the the Deputy. general administration of the executive. The Act In addition extra beds will be provided in the also provides that up to four regional health new acute medical units which I announced as forums shall be established by the Minister. Each part of the accident and emergency services pack- forum has the function of making representations age on the publication of the Estimates for 2005. to the executive on the range and operation of health and personal social services provided Political Leadership. within its functional area. Details relating to the 34. Mr. P. Breen asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- establishment, composition and operation of the ster for Health and Children her views on the fail- regional health forums will be set out in regu- ure of political leadership in her Department lations which are currently in the course of prep- between 2000 and 2004. [9517/05] aration in my Department. Pursuant to section 79 of the Health Act 2004, Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children my Department is currently preparing regulations (Ms Harney): I take it the Deputy is referring to relating to the supply by the executive of speci- the subject matter of the Travers report, but I fied documents or information to, and correspon- believe his question prejudges any answer I may dence with, Members of either House of the give. It is a function of the Oireachtas to hold Oireachtas. Ministers to account. The House considered the report for two hours on 10 March, including a half Health Services. an hour of questions to me and to my predecessor 36. Mr. Ring asked the Ta´naiste and Minister as Minister for Health and Children. The Joint for Health and Children if the Government has Oireachtas Committee on Health and Children delivered on the 800 additional extended care and ´ has also been asked by Da´il Eireann to consider community nursing unit places per annum as the report over the next three months. I have promised in the national health strategy 2001; and given my views already extensively to the House if she will make a statement on the matter. and I remain fully willing to assist the joint [9491/05] Oireachtas committee in its detailed con- siderations. 55. Mr. English asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- ster for Health and Children the number of the 600 additional day hospital beds with facilities Health Service Executive. encompassing specialist areas such as falls, oste- 35. Mr. Perry asked the Ta´naiste and Minister oporosis treatment, fracture prevention, Parkin- for Health and Children if she will hold the HSE son’s disease, stroke prevention, heart failure and 1781 Questions— 23 March 2005. Written Answers 1782 continence promotion clinics, as promised in the ability services. My Department, however, has national health strategy 2001, which have been asked the Health Service Executive if they pro- delivered; and if she will make a statement on the pose to carry out a review of this case and to matter. [9492/05] advise me on the matter. 86. Mr. Perry asked the Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children the number of the 700 Health Services. day care places for the elderly which have been 38. Mr. Sargent asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- delivered, as promised in the national health ster for Health and Children when the Health strategy 2001; and if she will make a statement on Service Executive working group on cystic the matter. [9494/05] fibrosis services, which was set up after a report 102. Mr. English asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- labelled CF services as dangerous will report to ster for Health and Children the number of the her; her views on whether the analysis of the 1,370 additional assessment and rehabilitation initial report is accurate; and if, in the meantime, beds which have been delivered, as promised in she intends to act on the recommendations of the the national health strategy 2001; and if she will initial report. [9446/05] make a statement on the matter. [9493/05] 96. Mr. Neville asked the Ta´naiste and Minister Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children for Health and Children her views on the Pollock (Ms Harney): I propose to take Questions Nos. report into services for cystic fibrosis patients; 36, 55, 102 and 86 together. and if she has examined the need for urgent As the Deputy will be aware, the Health Act action to correct the dangerously inadequate 2004 provided for the Health Service Executive, staffing levels (details supplied). [9303/05] which was established on 1 January 2005. Under Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children the Act, the executive has the responsibility to (Ms Harney): I propose to take Questions Nos. manage and deliver, or arrange to be delivered 38 and 96 together. on its behalf, health and personal social services. The Health Act 2004 provided for the Health As part of the executive’s responsibility to pre- Service Executive, which was established on 1 pare and submit an annual service plan for my January 2005. Under the Act, the executive has approval, it is obliged under section 31 of the Act the responsibility to manage and deliver, or to indicate any capital plans proposed by the arrange to be delivered on its behalf, health and executive. In this process the executive can be personal social services. This includes responsi- expected to have regard to the full range of bility for health services for patients with cystic potential capital developments, its own criteria in fibrosis. determining priorities, available resources and The Cystic Fibrosis Association of Ireland any other relevant factors. commissioned Dr. Ronnie Pollock to review the The Health Service Executive’s national ser- existing hospital services for people with cystic vice plan is being examined by my Department in consultation with the HSE at present. The infor- fibrosis in the context of accepted international mation requested by the Deputies is not normally standards. Dr. Pollock’s report was officially collated in my Department. Accordingly, my launched earlier this year. Department has requested the national director The report provides an assessment of need for of primary, community and continuing care of the current and future cystic fibrosis patients and Health Service Executive to investigate the makes a number of recommendations with regard matters raised and to reply direct to the Deputies. to the numbers and categories of staff that are appropriate for a modern, multi-disciplinary cys- Children in Care. tic fibrosis service. The report concluded that cys- tic fibrosis care should be provided in fewer units 37. Mr. Gormley asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- of a more significant size so that viable staffing ster for Health and Children if there is a review levels can be maintained and to ensure that staff planned, following the taking into State care by have a sufficient workload to enable them to the Health Service Executive of five children maintain their skills level. (details supplied) with disabilities and the rever- Following the publication of the Pollock report sal of that order by the District Court a week the Health Service Executive met the Cystic later; and if she will make a statement on the Fibrosis Association of Ireland and agreed to the matter. [9436/05] latter’s request to establish a working group to Minister of State at the Department of Health consider the report’s recommendations. The and Children (Mr. B. Lenihan): It is not appro- group, which includes representatives from the priate to comment on individual cases. The Cystic Fibrosis Association of Ireland and the Health Act 2004 provided for the Health Service Health Service Executive, as well as relevant clin- Executive, which was established on 1 January icians, will review the current configuration and 2005. Under the Act, the executive has the delivery of services to cystic fibrosis patients, responsibility to manage and deliver, or arrange across hospital and community, and make recom- to be delivered on its behalf, health and personal mendations for improvement and development of social services. This includes responsibility for the services. I understand that the group will hold its welfare and protection of children and for dis- first meeting in April. 1783 Questions— 23 March 2005. Written Answers 1784

[Ms Harney.] ing posts unfilled at the latest date for which fig- I also understand that the Health Service ures are available; the number of qualified nurses Executive is pursuing with St. Vincent’s Hospital, who were offered permanent posts in the acute which is designated as the national adult cystic hospital service during 2004; if her attention has fibrosis centre, proposals for improvement to the been drawn to warnings from the INO that the physical infrastructure of the centre. number of vacancies would rise to 2,000 over the next 18 months; the number of vacancies of ICU 39. Ms Shortall asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- nurses; the hospitals in which these vacancies ster for Health and Children when a decision will exist; the number of nursing vacancies in accident be made on the location of new radiotherapy and emergency departments and the hospitals in units in Dublin; and if she will make a statement which they exist; the steps being taken to deal on the matter. [9425/05] with the shortage of nurses; and if she will make 123. Mr. Naughten asked the Ta´naiste and a statement on the matter. [9423/05] Minister for Health and Children the two centres Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children in Dublin which are to provide radiotherapy ser- (Ms Harney): According to the most recent vices in the eastern region; and if she will make a Health Service Executive — employer represen- statement on the matter. [9471/05] tative division — survey of nursing resources, recruitment remains well ahead of resignations Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children and retirements. Employers reported that 765 (Ms Harney): I propose to take Questions Nos. vacancies existed at 31 December 2004. The vac- 39 and 123 together. ancy rate now stands at 2.25%. This could be con- The Government’s policy on radiation sidered to be a normal frictional rate, given that oncology is based on the report on the develop- there will always be some level of movement due ment of radiation oncology services in Ireland. to resignations, retirements and nurses availing of The report recommends that there should be two opportunities to change employment and radiotherapy treatment centres located in the locations. eastern region, one serving the southern part of The survey does not collect data on vacancies the region and adjacent catchment areas and one in individual hospital departments such as acci- serving the northern part of the region and adjac- dent and emergency or intensive care. Data on ent catchment areas. The international panel the number of nurses offered permanent con- established to advise on the optimum locations tracts in acute hospitals is not available, however, for radiation oncology services in the eastern the survey found that in the year ending 31 region submitted its advice to me on 28 January December 2004 a total of 3,949 staff nurses were last. I intend to reach an early decision in relation recruited by health service executive areas, volun- to this matter. tary hospitals and intellectual disability agencies. 40. Mr. Eamon Ryan asked the Ta´naiste and During the same year 3,131 staff nurses resigned, Minister for Health and Children if she plans to retired or moved to another employer. An extra promote breastfeeding and enhance breastfeed- 819 nurses were employed in the health service in ing support services; and if she will make a state- the year ending 31 December 2004. ment on the matter. [9443/05] The recruitment and retention of adequate numbers of nursing staff has been a concern of Minister of State at the Department of Health this Government for some time. A number of and Children (Mr. S. Power): The health pro- substantial measures have been introduced in motion unit of my Department is committed to recent years. The number of nursing training places has been increased by 70% since 1998 to the promotion, protection and support of bre- \ astfeeding and has undertaken and supported a 1,640 from 2002 onwards. In excess of 90 million number of initiatives in this regard. revenue funding is being provided in 2005 for A national committee on breastfeeding has undergraduate nurse training. Nursing continues been established and is currently in the final to be regarded as an attractive career. Provisional stages of developing a national strategic action data indicate that overall CAO applications for plan on breastfeeding. This plan aims to create a nursing in autumn 2005 are 8,155 with 4,869 first supportive culture for breastfeeding in Ireland preferences — an increase of 3.5% over 2004. and emphasises the importance of partnership A comprehensive range of financial supports working with all relevant stakeholders. The plan have been introduced to support nurses in pursu- also emphasises the importance of breastfeeding ing part-time degrees and specialist courses, including back to practice courses. The cost of support services and recognises the valuable work \ being undertaken by voluntary and statutory these supports will be 10 million in 2005. organisations. An extensive consultation process My Department introduced a scheme of flex- has taken place and it is hoped to publish the ible working arrangements for nurses and mid- action plan later this year. wives in February 2001. Under the scheme, indi- vidual nurses and midwives may apply to work between eight and 39 hours per week on a perma- Hospital Staff. nent, part-time basis. Almost a quarter of all 41. Mr. Sherlock asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- nurses now job share or work part-time hours. ster for Health and Children the number of nurs- Since 1998 nurses have been paid for overtime. 1785 Questions— 23 March 2005. Written Answers 1786

Previously, they had been given time off in lieu authorities across the EU became aware that and the introduction of payment represents a Sudan Red 1 had been used illegally to enhance further significant financial incentive for nurses. the colour of chilli powder and thereby increase The promotional structure within nursing, its commercial value. The use of colourants in including the introduction of a clinical career foods is strictly regulated and only those on an pathway, has been substantially improved on foot approved list can be used and then only under of the recommendations of the Commission on restricted circumstances. Sudan Red 1 is not on Nursing and the 1999 nurses’ pay settlement. The an approved list and therefore its use in food- National Council for the Professional Develop- stuffs is banned. ment of Nursing and Midwifery has been Following the detection of the dye, a risk analy- especially active in this area and, to date, over sis was conducted and this led to new EU rules 1,600 clinical nurse specialist and advanced nurse which were introduced in July 2003. These rules practitioner posts have been created. require that chilli powder imported into the EU Ensuring that there are sufficient nursing must be tested and certified to be free of Sudan resources in 2005-06 is a priority for the Health Red 1. In addition to the import checks, member Service Executive. This will be the transition year states are required to carry out testing of products between the diploma and the degree prog- on the market. The developments at EU level rammes. The final group of diploma students from May to July 2003 had the effect of introduc- recently graduated with the first group of degree ing a more rigorous monitoring system for a dye students graduating in 2006. A steering group that was already banned. inclusive of nurse managers and human resources The batch of contaminated chilli powder at the specialists has been established by the HSE to centre of the recent food recalls was imported manage recruitment in this period. My Depart- into the UK from India in 2002, prior to the intro- ment is also represented on this group. This duction of the protective measures. The contami- group will oversee the work of a project office nated batch was used in the production of Worc- tasked with running local and overseas recruit- ester sauce which, in turn, was sold to almost 200 ment campaigns. Work is well underway on the food businesses and used as an ingredient in tender process for overseas recruitment. The about 470 food products. Contaminated food group is also looking at recruitment practices, products were then distributed to at least 15 including the issue of temporary contracts, and countries around the world, including Ireland, retention initiatives. Additional funding has been and this led to the series of product recalls that provided to the HSE for nursing recruitment in we have seen recently. 2005. Following the receipt of information from the Food Standards Agency in the UK regarding the Carcinogenic Products. detection of the dye in Worcester Sauce, the Food Safety Authority of Ireland, FSAI, worked 42. Dr. Upton asked the Ta´naiste and Minister with Irish food manufacturers, distributors and for Health and Children if she intends to under- take a review of food safety procedures in view retailers in order to ensure the immediate of the fact that so many products on sale here removal of any contaminated products from the have been found to contain the carcinogenic, market. The FSAI is satisfied that in all cases con- Sudan Red 1; and if she will make a statement on taminated products were removed from shelves the matter. [6952/05] as soon as they were identified. A major media campaign was undertaken by the FSAI to ensure 59. Dr. Upton asked the Ta´naiste and Minister that consumers were informed of the products for Health and Children the steps being taken to identified and advised to throw out contaminated ensure that all food products containing the products or return them to the shop where they banned carcinogenic, Sudan Red 1, are removed had been purchased. A press release containing from all shops and that consumers are alerted to the full list of identified products was issued and the dangers from products they may have in their the FSAI updated the list as further information homes containing the substance; and if she will was received. A measure of the success of this make a statement on the matter. [7052/05] publicity campaign can be seen in the fact that almost 22,000 hits were recorded in a single day 129. Mr. Sargent asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- ster for Health and Children if she will make a on the FSAI website and the consumer help line statement on the recent food scare caused by the dealt with in excess of 1,300 phone calls over the use of Sudan Red 1 in a variety of foods; and the period. measures which have been introduced to safe- I am satisfied that the FSAI acted rapidly and guard against these types of incidents. [6983/05] responsibly in the interests of consumers by pro- viding full information and by working with other Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children agencies and the food industry to ensure that (Ms Harney): I propose to take Questions Nos. affected products were speedily removed from 42, 59 and 129 together. the market. The scale of this recall and with- Sudan Red 1 is a synthetically produced red drawal is unprecedented and, in these circum- dye normally used for colouring solvents, oils, stances, I believe that the comprehensive and waxes, petrol and shoe and floor polishes. In May timely response by all concerned, provides clear 2003, through the European rapid alert system, evidence that our food control systems are sound. 1787 Questions— 23 March 2005. Written Answers 1788

[Ms Harney.] Hospital Charges. I can confirm that the effectiveness of our food 44. Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in asked the Ta´naiste control measures will be kept under continuing and Minister for Health and Children if her review and to this end the FSAI has been asked Department has records of representations by or to undertake an appraisal of the Irish response to on behalf of persons in long-term care who chal- the Sudan Red 1 problem to ascertain the lessons, lenged or queried the system of charging between if any, which can be learned. 1976 and 2004 which was found to have no legal basis; the number of such representations and the Ministerial Appointments. number for whom charges were discontinued fol- 43. Mr. P. McGrath asked the Ta´naiste and lowing those representations; and if she will make Minister for Health and Children the progress to a statement on the matter. [9302/05] date on filling the offices of chief executive officer of the HSE and Secretary General of her Depart- Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children ment; and if she will make a statement on the (Ms Harney): As the information required by the matter. [9500/05] Deputy covers a period of 28 years, the infor- mation requested is not readily available in my 122. Mr. Hogan asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- Department. I am having the necessary inquiries ster for Health and Children the procedures for made in this matter and My Department will the appointment of a new chief executive officer revert to the Deputy as soon as possible. for the HSE and a new Secretary General for her Department; and if she will make a statement on Hospital Services. the matter. [9521/05] 45. Mr. Boyle asked the Ta´naiste and Minister Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children for Health and Children her views on the recent (Ms Harney): I propose to take Questions Nos. turning away of many patients from the accident 43 and 122 together. and emergency department of Cork University The Interim Health Service Executive, iHSE, Hospital, in conditions that the senior accident awarded a contract to PricewaterhouseCoopers, and emergency consultant described as the walk- PWC, following a tendering process, to manage ing wounded; and when new accident and emer- the recruitment of the chief executive officer of gency facilities will be resourced and come fully the Health Service Executive. into use. [9438/05] In September 2004, Professor Aidan Halligan — deputy chief medical Officer in the UK — was 46. Mr. J. O’Keeffe asked the Ta´naiste and announced as the first chief executive officer of Minister for Health and Children the services the Health Service Executive. In November 2004 which were affected by the recent closure of the Professor Halligan announced his withdrawal accident and emergency department at Cork Uni- from the process due to personal reasons. versity Hospital; and if she will make a statement Following a recommendation from the board on the matter. [9509/05] of the iHSE, the Ta´naiste and Minister for Health 63. Mr. J. O’Keeffe asked the Ta´naiste and and Children appointed the executive chairman Minister for Health and Children the reason a of the iHSE as interim chief executive of the level one trauma centre for the south was recently Health Service Executive with effect from 1 closed one Friday morning; and if she will make January 2005. The interim chief executive officer a statement on the matter. [9510/05] will remain in this position until a chief executive officer is appointed. 98. Mr. Howlin asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- PWC has continued as the recruitment agency ster for Health and Children if her attention has to manage the recruitment of the permanent chief been drawn to the serious situation in Cork Uni- executive officer for the Health Service Execu- versity Hospital at which patients had to be tive, HSE, and this recruitment process has been turned away due to the fact that there were more underway since early December 2004. than 30 patients awaiting treatment on trolleys or A recruitment subcommittee of the board of chairs; the steps she intends to take to address the HSE is responsible for the selection of a this situation; and if she will make a statement on CEO. The subcommittee is chaired by Mr. Liam the matter. [9407/05] Downey, the chairperson of the board. The 100. Mr. McGinley asked the Ta´naiste and recruitment subcommittee met on 18 February to Minister for Health and Children if she will make assess progress and decide on a suitable shortlist a statement on the recent closure of the accident of potential candidates. Formal interviews were and emergency department at Cork University held on 8 and 9 March 2005 and the process Hospital for four hours. [9508/05] remains ongoing. When the recruitment process is complete, the board will recommend a person Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children to me for appointment as CEO of the HSE. (Ms Harney): I propose to take Questions Nos. The post of Secretary General in my Depart- 45, 46, 63, 98 and 100 together. ment is being filled through a competition process The Health Act 2004 provided for the Health organised by the Top Level Appointments Com- Service Executive, which was established on 1 mittee. Final interviews for the post are scheduled January 2005. Under the Act, the executive has to take place on Monday, 4 April 2005. the responsibility to manage and deliver, or 1789 Questions— 23 March 2005. Written Answers 1790 arrange to be delivered on its behalf, health and Minister for State in her Department; the nature personal social services. This includes responsi- of the accountability of same for their special bility for the provision of services at Cork Univer- responsibility; and if she will make a statement sity Hospital. Accordingly, my Department has on the matter. [9522/05] requested the chief officer for the executive’s southern area to reply to the Deputies directly Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children with the information requested. (Ms Harney): Under the Health and Children (Delegation of Ministerial Functions) Order Sunbed Usage. 2004, I have assigned and delegated certain departmental functions to my Ministers of State. 47. Mr. Rabbitte asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- Such functions reflect their areas of ster for Health and Children if her attention has responsibility. been drawn to the call from the Environmental The following functions have been assigned to Health Officers Association for the introduction the Minister of State, Deputy Brian Lenihan, with of controls governing the use of sunbeds in view special responsibility for child care and children’s of the established link with skin cancer; if she policy: the Adoption Acts 1952 to 1998; the Chil- intends to introduce any such control; and if she dren Acts 1908 to 1989; the Child Care Act 1991, will make a statement on the matter. [9422/05] No. 17 of 1991; the Protections for Persons Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children reporting Child Abuse Act 1998, No. 49 of 1998; (Ms Harney): While my Department has not the Children Act 2001, No. 24 of 2001; and the received any formal contact from the Environ- Ombudsman for Children Act 2002, No. 22 of mental Health Officers’ Association, EHOA, in 2002. relation to the issue referred to by the Deputy, I The following functions have been assigned to am aware of an article in the EHOA’s yearbook the Minister of State, Deputy Tim O’Malley, with 2004-05 raising the issue of whether sunbeds and special responsibility for mental health, physical, tanning facilities should be regulated. sensory and intellectual disabilities: Part VII of My Department supports a range of initiatives the Mental Treatment Act 1945, No. 19 of 1945; organised by the Irish Cancer Society which section 41 of the Mental Treatment Act 1961, No. impact on awareness of the risk factors associated 7 of 1961; section 4 of the Health (Miscellaneous with many cancers, including melanomas. A Provisions) Act 2001, No. 14 of 2001; the Mental Sunsmart campaign is organised each year by the Health Act 2001, No. 25 of 2001; section 65 of the society to increase awareness of risk factors for Health Act 1953, No. 26 of 1953; section 26, 59, skin cancer. With regard to sunbeds, the society 61, 69, 71 and 72 of the Health Act 1970, No. 1 advises that they are not a safe way to tan. In of 1970. particular, the society advises that people should not use sunbeds if they: have skin which always The following functions have been assigned to sunburns with no ability to tan or sunburns quite the Minister of State, Deputy Sea´n Power, with easily with only an ability to develop a light tan; special responsibility for public health — food are less than 18 years of age; have large numbers safety, medicines and tobacco, health promotion of moles; tend to freckle; have a history of fre- and services for older people: the Irish Medicines quent childhood sunburn; have pre-malignant or Board Act 1995, No. 29 of 1995; section 5, 20 and malignant skin lesions; have sun damaged skin; 51 of the Food Safety Authority of Ireland Act are wearing cosmetics as this may increase sensi- 1998, No. 29 of 1998; the Food Standards Act tivity to UV exposure; and are taking medication. 1974, No. 11 of 1974; the Sale of Food and Drugs In this case, persons should seek advice from Acts 1875 to 1936; the Milk and Dairies Acts 1935 their doctor to determine if the medication will to 1988; the Tobacco Products (Control of Adver- make them UV radiation sensitive. This advice is tising, Sponsorship and Sales Promotion) Act in line with the World Health Organisation 1978; the Tobacco (Health Promotion and recommendations for the management of sunbed Protection) Act 1988; the Public Health operations which incorporate the recommend- (Tobacco) Acts 2002 and 2004; and sections 6, 7 ations of the International Commission on Non- and 10 of the Health (Nursing Home) Act 1990. Ionising Radiation Protection. I have also delegated to the Minister of State, In January 1996 the Society of Applied Cosme- Deputy Sea´n Power, additional responsibilities tology, now known as the Irish Beauty Pro- on an administrative basis as follows: health pro- fessional Association, issued guidelines on the use motion, including cardiovascular strategy and of sunbeds. These guidelines incorporated the women’s health; drug misuse and HIV/AIDS; then advice of the Irish Cancer Society. The contingency planning — health protection; association has advised that these guidelines are matters relating to the development of services currently being updated and should be finalised for older people throughout the country; and shortly. I have no plans at present to introduce matters relating to the development of palliative legislative controls in relation to this issue. care services throughout the country. In accordance with section 3 of the Public Ser- Ministerial Responsibilities. vice Management Act, 1997 I have overall 48. Mr. Hogan asked the Ta´naiste and Minister responsibility for the performance of the func- for Health and Children the responsibilities of a tions of my Department. 1791 Questions— 23 March 2005. Written Answers 1792

Nursing Home Charges. about the conversation at this meeting on the fol- lowing Wednesday. 49. Ms McManus asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- The terms of reference for the report by Mr. ster for Health and Children if, arising from the Travers focused on events between 1976 and Travers report, there was any record in her October 2004, when I sought legal advice from Department regarding the reason the new Mini- the Attorney General on the public long stay ster for Health who took over in March 1987 charges. Mr. Travers’s report sets out the infor- decided not to proceed with legislation that had mation which he judged to be relevant to, and been prepared by his predecessor, Mr. John within, the terms of reference. I was not party Boland, aimed at regularising the situation in to interviewees’ conversations with Mr. Travers regard to the charging of long stay patients; and other than my own. I cannot say what he was told if she will make a statement on the matter. apart from the information contained in his [9385/05] report. Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children (Ms Harney): No record has been found in my Nursing Home Charges. Department which indicates clearly why the legis- 51. Ms McManus asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- lative proposals to address the issue of charging ster for Health and Children if, arising from the of long stay patients put to Government while Travers report, any investigation has been held in John Boland was Minister for Health were not her Department to determine the location of the proceeded with. file prepared by the Secretary General for sub- As reported in the Travers report, the Govern- mission to the Attorney General, but which was ment decision in relation to this matter stated that never received in the Attorney General’s office, the proposals concerned were to be addressed in regard to the illegal charging of long stay “on the basis in so far as is now relevant.” Mr. patients and, to determine the reason the file was Travers has reported that “at the time of the not sent; and if she will make a statement on the Government decision, provision was made for matter. [9386/05] further discussion on the matter by the then Taoiseach, the Minister for Health and the Mini- Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children ster for Finance. No record of the content or the (Ms Harney): The letter and briefing documents in the file the Deputy refers to were sent to the outcome of these discussions was made available Attorney General last October at my request fol- to me by the Departments of Health and Chil- lowing the issue being raised in the House. The dren, Finance or An Taoiseach and I was original file drawn up in January 2004 containing informed that no such record exists on their these documents was not found in the Depart- files.”. ment despite an extensive search undertaken in January and February this year to facilitate the Ministerial Meetings. work of Mr. John Travers on the report I 50. Mr. Durkan asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- requested. A further search now would not be ster for Health and Children if she will report on likely to produce a different result. The reasons each and all of the meetings which have taken the file was not sent are the subject of detailed place between her immediate predecessor and comment in the Travers report. I have stated to the then Secretary General of her Department; if the House that I accept Mr. Travers’s assessments her attention has been drawn to the nature of the wholly and entirely. discussions as alleged in a recent Sunday news- paper article just prior to her appointment as Health Services. Minister; if she has been briefed on the nature of 52. Mr. Deenihan asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- these discussions; and if she will make a state- ster for Health and Children when work will com- ment on the matter. [9490/05] mence on the community nursing unit on the Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children grounds of Kerry General Hospital, Tralee, (Ms Harney): I regret to inform the Deputy that County Kerry; and if she will make a statement I cannot report on each and every meeting held on the matter. [9384/05] between my predecessor as Minister for Health Minister of State at the Department of Health and Children and the Secretary General of my and Children (Mr. S. Power): The Health Act Department. Such meetings would be too numer- 2004 provided for the Health Service Executive, ous to recount and report on, and I have not which was established on 1 January 2005. Under asked to be briefed on them. It is not uncommon the Act, the executive is required to manage and for Secretaries General to talk to previous Mini- deliver, or arrange to be delivered on its behalf, sters in their Department. health and personal social services. I understand that the meeting referred to took As part of the executive’s responsibility to pre- place on Monday, 13 December 2004 at the pare and submit an annual service plan for my request of the Secretary General who was in the approval, it is obliged under section 31 of the Act course of preparing a report to me on the issue to indicate any capital plans proposed by the of public long stay charges for consideration by executive. In this process the executive can be the Government the next morning. I was briefed expected to have regard to the full range of 1793 Questions— 23 March 2005. Written Answers 1794 potential capital developments, its own criteria in cations. The WHO plan is currently being determining priorities, available resources and updated to incorporate new scientific data and any other relevant factors. The Health Service experience obtained during recent outbreaks. Executive’s national service plan is being exam- Our pandemic plan will be modified in line with ined by my Department in consultation with the these recommendations once they are agreed and HSE at present. published by the World Health Organisation. Vaccination is the principal measure for Children in Care. preventing influenza and reducing the impact of 53. Mr. Murphy asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- epidemics. It will be the primary public health ster for Health and Children the number of intervention in the event of an influenza pan- families with children who have autistic behav- demic. However, the production of a vaccine tail- iour that had care orders issued by health boards ored to a pandemic influenza strain could take six or the HSE in the past 12 months; the number to nine months. Developments are underway at who are still in care; and if she will make a state- international level seeking to expedite this ment on the matter. [9524/05] process. Pending the availability of virus specific vac- Minister of State at the Department of Health cines, antiviral drugs will be the only influenza and Children (Mr. B. Lenihan): The Health Act specific medical intervention available for use in 2004 provided for the Health Service Executive, a pandemic. Antivirals can be used for prophy- which was established on 1 January 2005. Under laxis — prevention — and for treatment. the Act, the executive has the responsibility to The Government has decided that antiviral manage and deliver, or arrange to be delivered drugs should be stockpiled. The expert group on its behalf, health and personal social services, reviewed recommendations for the use of antivir- including services for the welfare and protection als in line with international guidance at its meet- of children and for disability services. Accord- ing on 24 February 2005. Following consideration ingly, my Department has asked the national of the expert group’s advice, I have directed that director for primary, community and continuing 1 million treatment packs of oseltamivir — Tami- care of the Health Service Executive to investi- flu — should be stockpiled. This quantity is suf- gate the matter and to reply directly to the ficient to treat 25% of the population and is in Deputy as soon as possible. line with international trends. The Health Service Executive has been so advised and procurement Influenza Outbreak. arrangements are underway. I am confident that 54. Mr. Neville asked the Ta´naiste and Minister 600,000 packs will have been delivered by the end for Health and Children her plans to deal with a of this year — this is sufficient to treat 15% of possible outbreak of avian flu. [9249/05] the population. The remaining 400,000 packs will be delivered in 2006. 83. Ms Burton asked the Ta´naiste and Minister A national antiviral stockpile would be used to for Health and Children the stock of flu vaccines treat priority groups. Prioritisation is essential if available to deal with any flu pandemic; if it is both morbidity and mortality are to be reduced, intended to increase these stocks; when this will and essential services are to be maintained be done; if she has satisfied herself that all appro- thereby minimising as far as possible the disrup- priate steps are in place to deal with any such tion to society which might result from a pan- pandemic; and if she will make a statement on demic. The priority groups include, for example, the matter. [9389/05] individuals who are hospitalised with influenza, Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children people who may be more vulnerable to the virus, (Ms Harney): I propose to take Questions Nos. and key workers in essential services. 54 and 83 together. It should be noted, however, that pandemic The overall aims of pandemic influenza pre- planning is a dynamic process and the definition paredness planning are to reduce morbidity and of risk is likely to change over time. This means mortality, and to minimise the resulting disrup- that the recommendations for use of antivirals tion to society. However, the consequences of a must be kept under review. In particular, the global pandemic are still likely to be serious. Pan- expert group will need to review the epidemiolog- demic planning can only mitigate the effects. ical data before final recommendations are The influenza pandemic expert group which is decided in the setting of an imminent pandemic. reviewing and updating Ireland’s 2002 influenza The decision making process will be guided at all pandemic preparedness plan has been recon- times by relevant expert advice from the Euro- vened. At its first reconvened meeting, the expert pean Commission and the World Health group agreed a programme of work to progress Organisation. the updating of the pandemic plan. Once finalised the updated plan will be published. Question No. 55 answered with Question Our 2002 plan was based on the World Health No. 36. Organisation, WHO, blueprint for an influenza Nursing Home Charges. pandemic plan published in 1999. It addresses a range of issues including prevention strategies, 56. Mr. Durkan asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- scientific and medical issues, and communi- ster for Health and Children her proposals for the 1795 Questions— 23 March 2005. Written Answers 1796

[Mr. Durkan.] will refer her to the symptomatic services in her repayment of the moneys illegally taken from old area. More than \60 million has been invested in age pensioners while in various health board the development of symptomatic breast disease institutions over the past number of years; and if services since 2000. This investment has enabled she will make a statement on the matter. the appointment of additional surgeons with an [9489/05] interest in breast disease, histopathologists and radiologists to enhance the delivery of breast can- Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children cer services nationally. (Ms Harney): My Department is currently study- BreastCheck, having considered a number of ing the Supreme Court judgment in relation to options, has advised my Department that the full repayment of charges for publicly-funded long implementation of the national breast screening term residential care in detail and will take on programme is the best approach to ensuring that board all the consequences for policy and law a quality screening programme is available to all arising from the judgment. A special Cabinet sub- women in the target age group throughout the committee comprising the Taoiseach, Deputy country. The roll out of this programme is a Bertie Ahern, the Minister for Finance, Deputy major priority in the development of cancer ser- Cowen, the Attorney General, Mr. Brady, and vices. The roll out requires significant capital and myself has been established to consider the issue human resources, including two static clinical of repayment in light of the judgement. Full units, mobile screening units, multi-disciplinary details of a repayment scheme will be announced consultant teams and radiographers together with as soon as possible and it is the intention to make technical and administrative support. repayments as automatic as possible. A capital investment of \21 million has been Any person who considers that they or a family approved to construct and equip the two clinical member may be eligible for repayment may regis- units and to provide for mobile units. The invest- ter their interest in advance with the Health Ser- ment will ensure that breast screening and follow vice Executive, by writing to the National Refund up treatment, where appropriate, is available to Scheme, HSE Midland Area, Arden Road, all women in the target group throughout the Tullamore, Co Offaly; by e-mailing refund- country. Pending the provision of the necessary [email protected]; or by calling the helpline facilities and staff, the national treatment pur- 1800 777737 during office hours. chase fund would be in a position to source pro- viders who could provide a service along the lines National Treatment Purchase Fund. suggested by the Deputy. 57. Mr. O’Shea asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- ster for Health and Children if the treatment pur- Question No. 58 answered with Question chase fund will be used to allow women in the No. 28. south and west of the country to have mammog- rams and have them processed through the Question No. 59 answered with Question already functioning symptomatic breast units; and No. 42. if she will make a statement on the matter. [9431/05] Question No. 60 answered with Question No. 57. 60. Mr. Rabbitte asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- ster for Health and Children if her attention has Question No. 61 answered with Question been drawn to the statement made by a person No. 19. (details supplied) that the absence of breast scre- ening services in the western regions was leading Hospital Accommodation. to a high number of mastectomies among women whose cancer is being detected too late; the steps 62. Mr. Kenny asked the Ta´naiste and Minister she is taking to address this situation; when it is for Health and Children her views on reports expected that the BreastCheck service will be (details supplied) that Beaumont hospital has less extended to the entire country; and if she will than 15% of the beds it needs for kidney and pan- make a statement on the matter. [9421/05] creatic transplant patients; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [9487/05] Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children (Ms Harney): I propose to take Questions Nos. 106. Mr. Ring asked the Ta´naiste and Minister 57 and 60 together. for Health and Children her views on reports I am aware of the benefits of an organised scre- (details supplied) that a massive bed, staffing and ening programme to detect breast cancer in facility deficit at the country’s kidney transplant women. The early detection of breast cancer unit is forcing patients abroad for treatment; and results in less radical medical and surgical inter- if she will make a statement on the matter. ventions. In that regard, I am confident that the [9488/05] target date of 2007 for the expansion of Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children BreastCheck nationally will be met. (Ms Harney): The Health Act 2004 provided for Any woman irrespective of her age or resi- the Health Service Executive, which was estab- dence who has concerns about breast cancer lished on 1 January 2005. Under the Act, the should contact her GP who, where appropriate, executive has the responsibility to manage and 1797 Questions— 23 March 2005. Written Answers 1798 deliver, or arrange to be delivered on its behalf, Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children health and personal social services. This includes (Ms Harney): I propose to take Questions Nos. responsibility for the provision of transplantation 66 and 78 together. services. Accordingly, my Department has The Health Act 2004 provided for the Health requested the chief officer for the executive’s Service Executive, which was established on 1 eastern regional area to examine the issues raised January 2005. Under the Act, the executive has and to reply to the Deputies directly. the responsibility to manage and deliver, or arrange to be delivered on its behalf, health and Question No. 63 answered with Question personal social services. Accordingly, my Depart- No. 45. ment has requested the director of the national hospitals office at the Health Service Executive Hospital Services. to reply directly to the Deputies in relation to the issues raised. 64. Ms B. Moynihan-Cronin asked the Following the preparation of a report by the Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children if Royal College of Surgeons in Ireland, RCSI, her attention has been drawn to the grave short- regarding surgical services at Cavan General fall in services for rheumatology patients; if Hospital, my Department recently facilitated a adequate funds will be provided for early diag- meeting with representatives of the college and nosis and treatment of this condition; and if she the director of the national hospitals office. The will make a statement on the matter. [9411/05] issues arising from the RCSI report and other Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children issues relevant to the reconfiguration of services (Ms Harney): The number of consultant rheuma- across the Cavan-Monaghan hospital group are tologists has increased by one third in the last being progressed by the director of the national three years from 16 to 21.5 whole-time equiv- hospitals office. alents. However, I am aware that difficulties are Question No. 67 answered with Question still being experienced in accessing rheumatology No. 9. services. At the beginning of February I had a very useful meeting with Arthritis Ireland and Medical Cards. representatives of the Irish Society for Rheuma- tologists when we discussed a range of issues, 68. Ms O. Mitchell asked the Ta´naiste and including the delivery of rheumatology services. Minister for Health and Children further to the The Health Act 2004 provided for the Health findings of the Supreme Court of 16 February Service Executive, HSE, which was established 2005, the cost of the over 70s medical card for on 1 January 2005. Under the Act, the executive each of the years 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004; and if has the responsibility to manage and deliver or she will make a statement on the matter. arrange to be delivered on its behalf, health and [9449/05] personal social services. The continued expansion Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children of rheumatology services is now a matter for the (Ms Harney): I understand the Deputy is refer- HSE — national hospitals office. My Department ring to the amounts deducted from persons aged will continue to work closely with the executive 70 and over in relation to charges in publicly to ensure that there is a continued focus on funded long stay care institutions. The Health improving the delivery of services for rheuma- Act 2004 provided for the Health Service Execu- tology patients. tive, which was established on 1 January 2005. Under this Act, the executive has the responsi- Question No. 65 answered with Question bility to manage and deliver, or arrange to be No. 31. delivered on its behalf, health and personal social services. Accordingly, my Department has Hospital Staff. requested the HSE to reply directly to the Deputy outlining the amounts deducted from 66. Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in asked the Ta´naiste persons aged 70 and over in relation to charges and Minister for Health and Children the further in publicly funded long stay care institutions for action she has taken with respect to the inter- the years 2001, 2002, 2003 and 2004. related and ongoing problems of services and staffing at Monaghan General Hospital and Cancer Screening Programme. Cavan General Hospital; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [9301/05] 69. Mr. Cuffe asked the Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children if her attention has been 78. Mr. Crawford asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- drawn to the European Parliament resolution on ster for Health and Children the steps she has breast cancer, 2003, the third edition of the Euro- taken with the Health Service Executive dealing pean code against cancer, 2003, and the European with Monaghan General Hospital regarding the Commission recommendation of 2003 adopted by unsatisfactory situation and lack of clarification the Council of Ministers, all calling for the exten- regarding the surgical services which are available sion of breast cancer screening to all women up and will be provided in the hospital; and if she to the age of at least 69; if her Department will will make a statement on the matter. [9427/05] be extending breast cancer screening to those 1799 Questions— 23 March 2005. Written Answers 1800

[Mr. Cuffe.] Executive. The executive will be required to draft over 65; if so, the timescale for same; and if she its own code of governance in keeping with this will make a statement on the matter. [9440/05] framework which will require ministerial approval. I also recently approved the executive’s Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children first ever national service plan for the Irish health (Ms Harney): I am aware of the recommend- ations on breast screening contained in the docu- system. This plan will be laid before the Houses ments referred to by the Deputy. The national of the Oireachtas in accordance with the pro- breast screening programme currently covers the visions of the Health Act 2004. eastern, north eastern, midland and parts of the Another key element of the structural reforms south eastern areas of the country. Screening is to be implemented involves the establishment of being offered free of charge to all women in those a health information and quality authority. I areas in the target age group 50 to 64 years of age. recently made a statutory instrument establishing The current priority of BreastCheck and my an interim authority whose members will be Department is to progress the roll out of breast responsible for making the necessary operational screening to women in the target age group in the preparations for the authority to be established rest of the country. Following the national roll under primary legislation. It is my intention to out and when the programme is sufficiently bring a Bill before the House before the end of developed and quality assured, consideration will the year to provide for the establishment of the be given to extending the upper age limit. health information and quality authority. Any woman, irrespective of her age or resi- The Hanly report sets out the changes needed dence, who has immediate concerns or symptoms in non-consultant hospital doctors, NCHDs, work should contact her GP who, where appropriate, patterns; a series of reforms in medical education will refer her to the symptomatic services in her and training; the number of additional consult- region. ants needed and how they should work under a significantly revised contract. Implementation of Question No. 70 answered with Question the report’s recommendations regarding acute No. 8. hospital reorganisation had been hampered by the dispute relating to medical indemnity. Health Service Reform. While the acute hospitals review group which had been appointed to progress the Hanly pro- 71. Mr. Deasy asked the Ta´naiste and Minister posals will not now proceed, I will continue the for Health and Children if she is satisfied with the planned investment in new hospital facilities, new progress of the structural reform programme to consultant posts in a team-based system and the date; and if she will make a statement on the organisation of services around hospital matter. [9498/05] networks. Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children A further important dimension of the reform (Ms Harney): On taking up my current office, as programme involves the completion of a new Minister for Health and Children, I have iden- organisation design for the Department of Health tified the implementation of the Government’s and Children. The Department will devolve a health service reform programme among my range of functions to the executive. The restruc- priorities. turing of the Department to implement the On 11 November 2004, the interim Health Ser- organisational design will be carried out in the vice Executive announced a high level organis- current year in tandem with the hand-over of ational design and structure for the executive. agreed functions to the executive. This process is very well advanced and the HSE Work is currently ongoing in my Department is currently engaged in completing arrangements in relation to the preparation of separate regu- for the recruitment of further key personnel at an lations, pursuant to the Health Act 2004, for the early date. establishment of up to four regional health Also, in November, I published the Health Bill forums and to cover dealings between the Health 2004, which was enacted last December. Arising Service Executive and members of the Houses of from this, the executive was established under the Oireachtas. ministerial order with effect from 1 January 2005. My Department is also working on the prep- The executive took over responsibility for the aration of regulations to be made under the management and delivery of health services from Health Act 2004 which will deal with the estab- the Eastern Regional Health Authority and the lishment of a statutory complaints framework. I health boards. From its establishment day, the am satisfied that the achievements and ongoing functions of the Health Boards Executive, the work referred to represent satisfactory progress Health Service Employers Agency, the Office for in the structural reform programme to date. Health Management, Comhairle na nOspide´al, the National Disease Surveillance Centre, the Hospital Waiting Lists. GMS Payments Board and the interim Health Service Executive were also subsumed into the 72. Mr. G. Mitchell asked the Ta´naiste and executive. Minister for Health and Children the steps she I recently approved a framework for corporate has taken to address the ongoing problem of leng- and financial governance for the Health Service thy waiting lists for new diabetes patients; and if 1801 Questions— 23 March 2005. Written Answers 1802 she will make a statement on the matter. predecessors have not appeared before the [9450/05] Oireachtas Joint Committee on Health and Chil- dren to discuss radiotherapy services; and if she Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children will make a statement on the matter. [9515/05] (Ms Harney): The Health Act 2004 provided for the Health Service Executive, which was estab- Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children lished on 1 January 2005. Under the Act, the (Ms Harney): I am pleased to inform the Deputy executive has the responsibility to manage and that I appeared before the Oireachtas Joint Com- deliver, or arrange to be delivered on its behalf, mittee on Health and Children on 3 February last health and personal social services. This includes at which a range of cancer related issues, includ- responsibility for diabetes services. Accordingly, ing radiation oncology services, were discussed. my Department has requested the director of the national hospitals office at the Health Service Hospital Accommodation. Executive to investigate the matter raised and to 77. Cecilia Keaveney asked the Ta´naiste and reply to the Deputy directly. Minister for Health and Children if her attention has been drawn to the outstanding difficulties Task Force on Alcohol. being experienced in Letterkenny General 73. Mr. Gogarty asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- Hospital due to an increase in specialisms but no ster for Health and Children if she plans to increase in bed capacity; and if she will make a implement fully the recommendations in the statement on the matter. [9236/05] second report of the strategic task force on 113. Cecilia Keaveney asked the Ta´naiste and alcohol; the way in which she plans to do so; and Minister for Health and Children if her attention if she will make a statement on the matter. has been drawn to the lack of beds in Letter- [9441/05] kenny General Hospital, both at the accident and Minister of State at the Department of Health emergency department and in the main hospital, and Children (Mr. S. Power): The Strategic Task due largely to the rising population and demogra- Force on Alcohol was established in January phy of the county; and if she will make a state- 2002. Its remit is to provide specific evidence ment on the matter. [9235/05] based measures to Government to prevent and Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children reduce alcohol related harm. The task force pub- (Ms Harney): I propose to take Questions Nos. lished an interim report in May 2002 and a second 77 and 113 together. report in September 2004. Together, the two The Health Act 2004 provided for the Health reports provide approximately 100 evidenced Service Executive, HSE, which was established based recommendations which aim to tackle on 1 January 2005. Under the Act, the executive alcohol related harm in this country and are has the responsibility to manage and deliver, or framed on the ten strategy areas for alcohol arrange to be delivered on its behalf, health and action outlined in the World Health Organisation personal social services. This includes responsi- European charter on alcohol. I intend to bring bility for services at Letterkenny General the second task force report to Government Hospital. Accordingly, my Department has shortly. requested the chief officer for the executive’s north western area to investigate the matters Question No. 74 answered with Question raised and to reply directly to the Deputy. No. 31. Question No. 78 answered with Question Nursing Home Charges. No. 66. 75. Mr. F. McGrath asked the Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children the role of the Question No. 79 answered with Question Minister for Health and Children and the Mini- No. 9. sters of State at the meeting in December 2003 on the nursing home pensions issue. [7473/05] Health Services. Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children 80. Mr. Stanton asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- (Ms Harney): Ministers accepted an invitation to ster for Health and Children the number of social attend a joint meeting on 16 December 2003 of workers or health sector personal social services the management advisory committee of the professionals in each regional health area that are Department of Health and Children and health employed to assess children for the cre`che sup- board chief executive offices in order to hear and plement; and if she will make a statement on the take part in the exchange of views on the range matter. [6020/05] of issues on the agenda for the meeting and Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children thereby assist them in the discharge of their min- (Ms Harney): The information requested by the isterial functions. Deputy is not available in my Department as the staffing information collected through the health Hospital Services. service personnel census is done on the basis of 76. Mr. Allen asked the Ta´naiste and Minister grade and employing agency only. The chief for Health and Children the reason she or her officer of each Health Service Executive area has 1803 Questions— 23 March 2005. Written Answers 1804

[Ms Harney.] Given the potential level of demand for ortho- been requested by my Department to investigate dontic services, the provision of those services the matter raised by the Deputy and to reply will continue to be based on prioritisation of cases directly to him in relation to it. based on treatment need, as happens under the existing guidelines. These guidelines were issued Hospital Accommodation. in 1985 and are intended to enable health boards, 81. Mr. S. Ryan asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- now the Health Service Executive, to identify in ster for Health and Children the number of long a consistent way those in greatest need and to stay public beds available throughout the country commence timely treatment for them. As such on a county basis; and if she will make a state- guidelines are issued in the manner of advice to ment on the matter. [9429/05] the health boards-authority they do not have a specific statutory basis nor do they require same. Minister of State at the Department of Health and Children (Mr. S. Power): As the Deputy will Organ Retention. be aware, the Health Act 2004 provided for the Health Service Executive, which was established 85. Ms O’Sullivan asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- on 1 January 2005. Under the Act, the executive ster for Health and Children the basis of her has the responsibility to manage and deliver, or decision to close down the Dunne inquiry into the arrange to be delivered on its behalf, health and retention of organs of deceased children; her pro- personal social services. This includes responsi- posals for the completion of the work; if an appli- bility for the number of public beds. Accordingly, cation for additional resources for the inquiry had my Department has requested the national direc- been received from the chairman; the Govern- tor of primary, community and continuing care of ment’s response to this; the date on which she the Health Service Executive to investigate the expects the final report to be published; if it is matter raised and to reply direct to the Deputy. intended to introduce legislation to regulate organ retention and transplants; and if she will Food Dispensers. make a statement on the matter. [9415/05] 82. Mr. Coveney asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children ster for Health and Children her views on ban- (Ms Harney): On 1 September 2004 the Govern- ning soft drinks and snack food dispensers from ment decided that the post mortem inquiry State run health institutions; and if she will make should furnish its final report not later than the a statement on the matter. [9519/05] 31 March 2005 and that the inquiry would then Minister of State at the Department of Health cease to exist. The chairman of the inquiry has and Children (Mr. S. Power): I have no current been so advised and I expect to have her final plans to ban soft drinks and snack food dispensers report on or before that date. The chairman had from State run health institutions. The report of sought approval to appoint additional legal staff the national task force on obesity is due for publi- to the inquiry team, but approval was not given. cation shortly and I await its recommendations. The European Commission is currently con- sidering the question of a directive in respect of Question No. 83 answered with Question organ transplantation, including the issue of con- No. 54. sent, and proposes to conduct a thorough scien- tific evaluation of the situation. It will present a Health Services. report on its analysis to the Council of the Euro- pean Union as soon as possible. It is hoped that 84. Mr. Stanton asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- this will provide the framework for the develop- ster for Health and Children further to ment of legislation in this area. Parliamentary Question No. 125 of 17 June 2004 if she has satisfied herself that guidelines which In the meantime, it is intended to review organ were issued in 1985 which prioritise cases based donation, procurement and utilization policy in on treatment needed for orthodontic services, Ireland. This work will inform Ireland’s contri- have a basis in law; the section of the Act that bution to the discussions in relation to the pro- gives legal underpinning to these guidelines; and posed directive on organs. if she will make a statement on the matter. [9279/05] Question No. 86 answered with Question No. 36. Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children (Ms Harney): The Health Act 2004 provided for Hospital Services. the Health Service Executive, which was estab- lished on 1 January 2005. Under the Act, the 87. Mr. Noonan asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- executive has the responsibility to manage and ster for Health and Children her views on a deliver, or arrange to be delivered on its behalf, media report (details supplied) which claimed health and personal social services. This includes that she may recommend that a number of prov- responsibility for orthodontic services. incial hospital satellite centres be established for The aim of my Department is to promote the the provision of radiotherapy, as part of a major development of the treatment capacity of ortho- reorganisation of services; and if she will make a dontics in a sustainable way over the longer term. statement on the matter. [9467/05] 1805 Questions— 23 March 2005. Written Answers 1806

95. Mr. Wall asked the Ta´naiste and Minister Two additional consultant radiation oncologists for Health and Children when she will be making will be appointed at CUH with sessional commit- an announcement regarding the provision of ments to the south eastern and the mid western appropriate transport arrangements for cancer areas. CUH is also in the process of recruiting patients requiring radiotherapy; and if she will other key posts required for the commissioning make a statement on the matter. [9433/05] of the new linear accelerators. 119. Mr. P. Breen asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- The supra-regional centre at University ster for Health and Children the recommend- College Hospital Galway commenced treatments ations of the Radiotherapy Report which have for radiotherapy last week. Last year, approval been implemented; and if she will make a state- issued for the appointment of 102 staff for this ment on the matter. [9516/05] unit, together with ongoing revenue funding of \12 million to cater for this expansion. Approval 137. Mr. O’Shea asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- issued for the appointment of an additional con- ster for Health and Children the provision she has sultant medical oncologist and three consultant made to provide radiotherapy for terminally ill radiation oncologists, two of whom have signifi- cancer patients in the last weeks of life who cant sessional commitments to the north-western cannot travel and who need it for relief from pain, and the mid-western areas. Key staffing is in in view of the fact that these patients make up place. The first consultant radiation oncologist half of all patients needing radiotherapy; and if has already started and the second is due to take she will make a statement on the matter. up post on 29 March. [9554/05] The report recommends that there should be 143. Mr. Gormley asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- two radiotherapy treatment centres located in the ster for Health and Children her plans to provide eastern region, one serving the southern part of access to radiotherapy services for persons in the the region and adjacent catchment areas and one north west, in particular in Inishowen, County serving the northern part of the region and adjac- Donegal. [9563/05] ent catchment areas. The international panel established to advise on the optimum locations 144. Mr. Gormley asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- for radiation oncology services in the eastern ster for Health and Children her plans to provide region submitted its advice to me on 28 January access to palliative radiotherapy services for per- last. I intend to reach an early decision in relation sons in the north west, in particular in to this matter. While the immediate priority is to Inishowen. [9564/05] provide significantly enhanced services in the Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children major population centres of Dublin, Cork and (Ms Harney): I propose to take Questions Nos. Galway, I will keep the question of networked 87, 95, 119, 137, 143 and 144 together. satellite locations under active review. The Government’s policy on radiation The Health Services Executive has significant oncology is based on the report on the develop- dedicated transport arrangements in place for ment of radiation oncology services in Ireland. radiotherapy patients. The remit of the national The report was prepared by a multi-disciplinary radiation oncology coordinating group group of experts in radiation oncology, medical encompasses recommending measures to facili- oncology, public health and palliative care, tate improved access to existing and planned ser- including representatives of bodies such as the vices, including transport and accommodation. Irish College of General Practitioners, the Irish The group comprises clinical, technical, mana- Cancer Society and Aid Cancer Treatment. The gerial, academic and nursing expertise from report has had significant international endorse- different geographic regions. The group will also ment from such bodies as the US National Cancer advise on quality assurance protocols and guide- Institute and the American Cancer Society. lines for the referral of public patients to private The Government is determined to ensure facilities. access by cancer patients throughout the country to high quality radiation oncology in line with Pharmacy Regulations. best international standard. Significant progress is 88. Mr. Stagg asked the Ta´naiste and Minister being made in implementing the report’s recom- for Health and Children if her attention has been mendations. The short term developments in drawn to the number of trained pharmacists from Cork and Galway will significantly improve abroad who cannot practice here although eli- access by cancer patients to radiotherapy treat- gible to practice in other EU countries; if she will ment, including for palliative purposes. consider amending the Pharmaceutical Acts in Two additional linear accelerators are being order to deal with this anomaly; and if she will provided at the supra-regional centre at Cork make a statement on the matter. [9413/05] University Hospital, CUH, at a capital cost of over \4 million. The first of these linear acceler- Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children ators has been installed and the second is (Ms Harney): Council Directive 85/433/EEC pro- expected to be commissioned by the autumn. Last vides for the free movement of pharmacists year, approval issued for the appointment of 29 within the European Economic Area, EEA. staff for this unit and additional ongoing revenue Under EU Directives 85/432/EEC and funding of \3 million to cater for this expansion. 85/433/EEC, any EU/EEA national holding a 1807 Questions— 23 March 2005. Written Answers 1808

[Ms Harney.] tinues to decline having regard to the pledge in recognised pharmacy qualification from such a An Agreed Programme for Government to state is entitled to register as a pharmacist in extend eligibility to bring in another 200,000 per- Ireland, in accordance with free movement sons and the commitment given on the publi- provisions. cation of the Estimates for 2005 that 30,000 Ireland avails of a derogation under Article 2.2 additional medical cards would be issued from 1 of 85/433/EEC which gives member states the January 2005; the number of the promised 30,000 option of not recognising the qualification of any new medical cards that have been issued since 1 national of an EU-EEA state who is qualified as January 2005; and if she will make a statement on a pharmacist in relation to the ownership, man- the matter. [9401/05] agement or supervision of a pharmacy that is less than three years old or for the establishment of a Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children new pharmacy. This means that a pharmacist who (Ms Harney): In September 2004, the number of qualified in another EU-EEA state, and who is a current medical cards in circulation was 768,895 national of such a state, may not own in their own providing services for 1,151,106 persons, or right, operate or manage a pharmacy that is less 29.39% of the population of 3,917,203, from the than three years old. 2002 census. In March 2005, there were 768,316 As recommended by the pharmacy review current cards providing services for 1,144,578 per- group I am examining the continued use of the sons or, 28.3% of the population of 4,043,800, the derogation in the context of new pharmacy legis- official estimate of population at September 2004, lation which will consolidate and modernise the which represents a net increase of 1,963 medical practice of pharmacy in Ireland. This will provide cards since February 2005. a more comprehensive framework for the super- Variations in medical card coverage can be vision and management of pharmacy services. attributed to the continued economic success of the country and also to results of the cleansing of Question No. 89 answered with Question medical card databases during 2003 and 2004, in No. 9 which approximately 104,000 medical card records were removed. Many of the deletions Ministerial Staff. from the database would have been due to nor- mal reviews but a number would have been dupli- 90. Mr. Broughan asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- cate or expired records. Regular periodic reviews ster for Health and Children the role and of eligibility are undertaken by the Health Ser- responsibilities of her special advisers, in part- vice Executive to ensure that its medical card icular their role in relation to briefing her on databases are accurate. issues arising at meetings they attend on her The implications of my decision to extend behalf; and if she will make a statement on the medical card coverage, as announced in Nov- matter. [9387/05] ember, will become apparent as the year pro- Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children gresses. New income guidelines, as agreed by the (Ms Harney): The provisions for the appointment chief officers of the Health Service Executive, are and role of special advisers are clearly set out in being used by the local area offices for the deter- section 11 of the Public Service Management mination of eligibility to an additional 30,000 full Act 1997. eligibility medical cards since January 2005. The In accordance with that Act, the special additional 200,000 doctor visit cards will be intro- advisers in my Department are appointed, inter duced progressively from April 2005, once admin- alia, to assist me in the discharge of my functions istrative arrangements are in place. as Minister for Health and Children. They are also available to assist me in relation to my role Health Service Reform. in Government as Ta´naiste. It is clear from the Public Service Management Act 1997 that special 92. Mr. Penrose asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- advisers are not part of the Civil Service line ster for Health and Children if the Government management. plans to implement the recommendations of the My special advisers brief me on any issues that Hanly report; and if she will make a statement on will come to me for decision arising out of any the matter. [9417/05] meetings they attend, whether in the civil service Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children or elsewhere. They do so, not as an alternative to (Ms Harney): I regard the report of the national briefing on these issues by civil servants. This has task force on medical staffing as a significant con- been the practice in relation to special advisers tribution to the development of acute hospitals over the life of many governments. services and to the organisation of medical staffing. Medical Cards. The report makes important proposals for 91. Mr. Costello asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- reducing the working hours of non-consultant ster for Health and Children the number of medi- hospital doctors, NCHDs, in line with the Euro- cal cards issued at 30 September 2004 and at the pean working time directive. It highlights the latest date for which figures are available; the need to implement changes in medical staffing to reason the number of medical card holders con- ensure safety and quality of patient care, and to 1809 Questions— 23 March 2005. Written Answers 1810 reduce significantly the unacceptably long work- Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children ing hours of NCHDs. (Ms Harney): On 1 January 2005, the public Hanly recommends a significant increase in the hospital statutory inpatient charge was increased total number of consultants, working in a consult- by \10 to \55 per night, subject to a maximum of ant-provided, team-based system, so that patients \550 in any 12 consecutive months. The charge can receive faster access to senior clinical decision for a visit to an accident and emergency depart- making. The Hanly report deals also with medical ment was also increased by \10 to \55. This education and training with particular reference increase in the accident and emergency charge to the changes that will be needed in the context will facilitate more appropriate attendances at of a 48-hour working week for NCHDs. accident and emergency units by reducing an In relation to the organisation of hospital ser- incentive for people to attend accident and emer- vices, I consider that the report proposes an gency when they might appropriately receive ser- appropriate way forward in terms of regional self- vices from general practitioners. sufficiency, investment in hospital services and The charges do not apply to a number of categ- the organisation of those services around hospital ories of person, including those with full eligi- networks. In line with these recommendations, I bility, women receiving services in respect of will continue the Government’s planned invest- motherhood, children up to the age of six weeks ment in new hospital facilities and additional con- and children suffering from prescribed long term sultant posts. I believe that this approach will be diseases. Additionally, the accident and emer- to the benefit of all patients. gency charge does not apply in circumstances I believe that the national hospitals office is where the person has been referred by a medical best placed to build on the recommendations of practitioner or where the attendance results in a the Hanly report in relation to hospital services hospital admission. and have asked my officials to progress the issue The daily cost of private and semi-private with officials of the national hospitals office. Mr. accommodation in public hospitals was also David Hanly who chaired the report of the increased by 25%, with effect from 1 January national task force on medical staffing will con- 2005. This income goes towards supporting ser- tinue to be available for advice on the reform vices in public hospitals. In the interests of equity, process. it is Government policy to gradually eliminate the Implementation of the other recommendations effective subsidy for private stays in public of the report is proceeding. My Department is hospital beds and relieve the general taxpayers of working closely with the Health Services Execu- the burden of carrying these costs. Even with this tive and other health agencies to implement the increase, the cost of providing services to private measures set out in the report to reduce the aver- patients in the major hospitals remains signifi- age weekly working hours of junior doctors. cantly greater than the income from the private Negotiations with the Irish Medical Organisation insurance companies, in many cases. The increase on the reduction in hours are continuing and local being implemented is aimed at closing that gap. implementation groups have been established in Under the Health Act, 1970, determination of nine hospitals as part of an agreed pilot process. eligibility for health services is the responsibility While consultant contract negotiations are of the Health Service Executive, HSE. It should paused pending resolution of issues related to be noted that where exemptions do not apply and medical indemnity arrangements, significant pre- cases of exceptional need arise, the chief officer paratory work has been undertaken on a draft of the relevant HSE area has discretion to waive consultant contract and management position the charge where undue hardship would other- paper. wise be caused. It is open to all persons to apply The implications of the required changes for to the Health Service Executive for health ser- post-graduate medical education and training are vices if they are unable to provide these services being examined by the medical education and for themselves or their dependants without training group that was originally established as hardship. part of the National Task Force on Medical Staffing Health Services. Hospital Charges. 94. Mr. Sherlock asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- ster for Health and Children the number of cases 93. Mr. Gilmore asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- of mumps reported to date in 2005; the way in ster for Health and Children if her attention has which this compares with the same period in been drawn to recent figures produced by the 2004; if she is satisfied that appropriate pro- Central Statistics Office showing that hospital cedures are in place to prevent the spread of this charges have risen by 59.9% in three years, more condition; and if she will make a statement on the than six times the rate of inflation; her views on matter. [9424/05] whether such a level of increase is justified; if her attention has been drawn to the hardship that Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children such a level of increase has created; the action (Ms Harney): The MMR vaccine protects against she intends to take to address this situation; and measles, mumps and rubella and, in accordance if she will make a statement on the matter. with the recommendations of the immunisation [9403/05] advisory committee of the Royal College of Phys- 1811 Questions— 23 March 2005. Written Answers 1812

[Ms Harney.] maximum protection against the diseases icians of Ireland, can be administered to children concerned. between 12 to 15 months. A vaccine uptake rate of 95% is required in order to protect children Question No. 95 answered with Question from the diseases concerned and to stop the No. 87. spread of the diseases in the community. Mumps data provided by the health protection Question No. 96 answered with Question surveillance centre of the Health Service Execu- No. 38. tive, formerly the national disease surveillance centre, indicate that 190 mumps cases were Health Service Reform. reported for weeks one to ten of 2005, that is, up 97. Mr. Allen asked the Ta´naiste and Minister until 12 March 2005. Six cases were reported for for Health and Children if she has read the report the same period in 2004. There has been of the Irish Society of Medical Oncologists which increased mumps activity throughout the country was submitted to the working group of the Holly- since October 2004. wood report; and if she will make a statement on A national outbreak control team, OCT, was the matter. [9514/05] convened at the beginning of the outbreak on 3 November 2004. Members of the OCT include Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children representatives from the health protection sur- (Ms Harney): The submission referred to by the veillance centre, HPSC, Health Service Executive Deputy was made by the Irish Society of Medical areas, department of public health, and the prog- Oncologists to the national cancer forum in the ramme for action for children, PAC, and my context of the development of a new national Department. The strategies agreed by the OCT cancer strategy and was discussed by the forum to ensure the protection of all children and young at its meeting in May 2003. The working group persons up to the age of 23 years against mumps which prepared the report on the development of are as follows: to raise awareness and improve radiation oncology services in Ireland, the Holly- case reporting, by laboratories and clinicians; to wood report, completed its deliberations in April improve information available on reported 2003. The national cancer forum is the national mumps cases through enhanced reporting ,lab- advisory body on cancer services and is a multi- oratory confirmation, hospitalisation data, com- disciplinary group of experts and includes rep- plications, vaccinations status, contract with a resentatives of all modalities of cancer care. The case; to provide bi-weekly detailed reports on the Hollywood report was discussed and unanimously extent of the outbreak, number of cases reported, endorsed by the national cancer forum at its risk factors for infection, vaccination status, and meeting on 17 September 2004 as the framework laboratory confirmation of disease. This infor- for the future development of radiation oncology mation is disseminated to all HSE areas, services in this country. members of OCT and my Department. To encourage vaccination against mumps among all Question No. 98 answered with Question children as part of routine immunisation prog- No. 45. ramme — two doses of MMR are recommended Question No. 99 answered with Question for all children at ages 12 to 15 months and at No. 8. four to five years. In areas where mumps cases are identified contract tracing is undertaken by Question No. 100 answered with Question local HSE area staff. Identified contacts of No. 45. mumps cases, who are considered likely to be at risk of infection, due to age of non-vaccination, Question No. 101 answered with Question are recommended MMR vaccine. Dependent on No. 15. HSE area, when mumps cases are linked to edu- cational settings local strategies for vaccination of Question No. 102 answered with Question at risk students are identified, either through vac- No. 36. cination teams, GPs or student health services. Students in schools, or colleges where outbreaks Health Service Staff. are occurring are informed about the risk of mumps if they are non-immunised or incom- 103. Mr. Deasy asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- pletely immunised and are recommended MMR ster for Health and Children the progress to date vaccine. HSE area staff work with the involved on the implementation of the European working institutions to provide information and advice to time directive; and if she will make a statement the student population; and additional MMR has on the matter. [9499/05] been provided to services requiring it for vacci- Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children nation programmes. (Ms Harney): As the Deputy will be aware, the I take this opportunity to urge all parents to provisions of the European working time have their children immunised against the dis- directive as it relates to the working hours of eases covered by the childhood immunisation doctors in training came into force on 1 August programme in order to ensure that both their 2004. The relevant provisions were transposed children and the population generally have into Irish law by way of the European Communi- 1813 Questions— 23 March 2005. Written Answers 1814 ties (Organisation of Working Time) (Activities ing evenings, weekends and holidays. The project of Doctors in Training) Regulations 2004. identified the core competencies required to staff Employers and the Irish Medical Organisation the hospitals during the out-of-hours period and have been engaged in discussions for some time used these to develop EWTD compliant staffing under the auspices of the Labour Relations Com- models which are clinically sound and acceptable mission, LRC, in order to advance proposals to to patients, the public and staff. effect a reduction in the working hours of non- Further negotiations on issues relating to consultant hospital doctors, to conform with the industrial relations matters will take place under provisions of the European working time the auspices of the LRC, aided and informed by directive, EWTD. While some progress has been the information compiled by these pilot local made, much remains to be resolved. The LRC has hospital groups. requested that both parties refrain from engaging In addition, both sides have accepted a pro- in any form of unilateral action for the duration posal made by the LRC on 7 February 2005 for of the negotiation process. As a result, health the establishment of a national implementation employers have not acted unilaterally in order to group, whose membership will include the achieve full compliance with the EWTD. In many Department of Health and Children, the Health sites around the country, the introduction of new Service Executive, the Irish Medical Organis- rosters would facilitate significant progress ation, the Irish Hospital Consultants Association, towards EWTD compliance while maintaining the Postgraduate Medical and Dental Board, the safe patient care and existing levels of service Medical Council, the postgraduate medical train- provision. However, health employers, in ing colleges and representatives of nurses and response to the request of the LRC, are at other healthcare professions. This group will co- present awaiting agreement between manage- ordinate the work of the existing nine pilot ment and the IMO at national level before hospital local implementation groups, issue proceeding. agreed guidance on matters related to the imple- The ability of the Health Service Executive to mentation of the EWTD and assist in the effectively implement the European working time development of local implementation plans. directive for the benefit of all NCHDs is depen- Finally, management and the IMO have also dent on the full cooperation of the Irish Medical Organisation at both national and local level. agreed to recommence substantive negotiations This process was delayed for some time in the on the NCHD contract. A meeting in this regard absence of agreement by the IMO to the estab- took place on 16 March at the LRC and a further lishment of local implementation groups in each meeting has been arranged by the LRC for 11 hospital and a national implementation group to April 2005. In this context, I am hopeful that coordinate and direct the work of the local early progress can be made in resolving outstand- groups. ing issues, so that full implementation of the Agreement was finally reached with the IMO directive’s requirements can proceed without in late 2004 to the establishment of nine pilot further delay. sites. The work by the local groups at these sites is progressing with a view to developing plans for Irish Blood Transfusion Service. the full implementation of the directive. 104. Mr. Quinn asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- Local implementation groups at nine pilot sites ster for Health and Children if her attention has are examining local implementation issues and been drawn to the recent survey which showed developing plans for the full implementation of serious morale problems within the Irish Blood the directive. Each local implementation group Transfusion Service with approximately one third includes consultants, local representatives of of the staff having concerns regarding the way in training bodies, NCHDs, nurses, management which the organisation is being run; if she is satis- and other grades. The work of the groups is well fied that all appropriate steps are being taken to underway and it is intended that they will docu- deal with this situation having regard to the ment how measures to reduce or reorganise importance of the IBTS; and if she will make a NCHD hours can best be implemented. Action statement on the matter. [9419/05] can then be taken on foot of this information when the industrial relations issues have been Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children resolved. At the current time each group is (Ms Harney): I have been informed by the Irish engaged in or beginning a comprehensive analysis Blood Transfusion Service, IBTS, that the it has of hospital activity. The data gathered from this implemented a number of initiatives in recent exercise will help determine how we begin to years to improve its human resources — HR — reorganise services over a 24 hour day to main- policies. In 2003, a professional organisation was tain high quality patient care while achieving commissioned to review HR structures, policies compliance with the directive. and procedures. Arising from the review, the In the UK, a similar project, the Hospital at IBTS appointed a number of HR professionals Night project, allowed health employers, the Brit- including a HR director, employee relations man- ish Medical Association and the training bodies ager and a training and development manager. to redefine how medical cover is provided in The review also highlighted a deficiency in poli- hospitals during the out-of-hours period, includ- cies and procedures and to a great extent this has 1815 Questions— 23 March 2005. Written Answers 1816

[Ms Harney.] letter requested detailed proposals from the been addressed with the launch of a HR staff executive for securing such compliance consistent manual in April 2004. with safeguarding front line service delivery and Another initiative was the employee climate achieving an appropriate balance between clinical survey referred to by the Deputy. This survey of and non-clinical employment levels in the health staff attitudes and opinions covered eight subject service. I am awaiting receipt of the executive’s areas and over seventy issues. The objective of proposals in this regard. the survey was to identify the strengths, develop- The need to achieve compliance with approved ment needs and the areas requiring immediate employment levels has also been underlined by improvement. The survey was carried out in my Department in direct discussions with the October 2004. There was a 68% response rate HSE’s senior management team in the context of from staff, with half of the respondents adding the finalisation of the executive’s national service further comments to the survey forms. plan for 2005. As would be expected with any employee sur- vey, there were positive and negative comments Question No. 108 answered with Question in employees’ responses. However, the IBTS No. 9. were committed to effective and timely follow up to this survey and to taking appropriate measures Hospital Waiting Lists. to deal with the issues highlighted. Accordingly, 109. Mr. Stagg asked the Ta´naiste and Minister 14 focus groups were set up, which were led by for Health and Children the details of the recent members of the senior management team with hospitals’ progress report on patient waiting over 60 staff from all grades and locations times published by the national treatment pur- throughout the organisation participating. These chase fund; the way in which this compares with focus groups made 47 recommendations which the previous report; and if she will make a state- have been reviewed by a sub group of the senior ment on the matter. [9414/05] management team together with members of the IBTS partnership steering group. An action plan Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children has been agreed with the partnership steering (Ms Harney): Responsibility for the collation and group and signed off by the senior management publishing of waiting list and waiting time data team with set timelines for implementation. The now rests with the national treatment purchase action plan will be monitored on a monthly basis fund, NTPF. The NTPF, which is a statutory to ensure that the recommendations are being body, was established as one of the key actions implemented. The IBTS has informed my for dealing with public hospital waiting lists aris- officials that a copy of the recommendations and ing from the health strategy. action plan will be sent to all staff over the next My Department has therefore asked the chief two weeks. executive of the NTPF to reply to the Deputy The results of the survey and the other HR directly regarding the information requested. initiatives which I have referred to above will assist the IBTS in meeting the needs and aspir- Question No. 110 answered with Question ations of employees, giving greater job satis- No. 9. faction, more thorough communications and rein- forcing the belief that they carry out an essential Question No. 111 answered with Question service within the health system. No. 15.

Question No. 105 answered with Question Medical Cards. No. 28. 112. Mr. Crawford asked the Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children the number of Question No. 106 answered with Question medical cards which were available to persons in No. 62. each of Counties Cavan, Monaghan, Louth and Meath in January 1997; the number available in Health Service Staff. January 2005; the number of medical cards avail- 107. Mr. Hayes asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- able in County Cork in January 1997; the number ster for Health and Children if she has had dis- available in January 2005; if she has satisfied her- cussions with the HSE on any health staff ceilings self that all means tests have been dealt with in a for 2005; the outcome of those discussions; and if similar way; and if she will make a statement on she will make a statement on the matter. the matter. [9428/05] [9497/05] Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children (Ms Harney): The number of medical cards which Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children were available to persons in January 1997 and (Ms Harney): I wrote to the interim chief execu- January 2005 is as follows: tive officer of the Health Service Executive on 15 February 2005 regarding the employment ceiling County January 1997 January 2005 for the health service and highlighting the requirement for the executive to ensure com- Cavan 22,030 18,564 pliance with approved employment levels. The 1817 Questions— 23 March 2005. Written Answers 1818

County January 1997 January 2005 force the Government to alter its position, the MDU has decided to withhold or withdraw Monaghan 22,497 16,308 indemnity cover from between 25 and 30 of its Louth 39,821 34,493 Irish members. These decisions have caused Meath 38,645 29,867 understandable worry and distress to the doctors Cork 139,370 130,863 concerned, several of whom are retired. The Government believes that these liabilities are the responsibility of the MDU. The doctors Persons are entitled to a medical card where they concerned paid the subscriptions set by the are unable without undue hardship to arrange for MDU. They are not at fault if the MDU did not the provision of medical services for themselves charge the correct level of subscriptions. It would or their dependants. In determining eligibility the also be unjust if patients were to be left without local area of the Health Service Executive will compensation because of the unreasonable and have regard to the financial circumstances and unjustifiable behaviour of the MDU. Accordingly medical needs of the applicant. Medical cards in October 2004 I gave an assurance to the Irish may be made available by the Health Service Hospital Consultants Association, IHCA, and the Executive where the guidelines are exceeded, for Irish Medical Organisation, IMO, that no person example, in circumstances where there is heavy who has suffered from a medical mishap in demand for medical services. However, in all Ireland would be left without compensation and cases the decision is a matter for the chief officer that no consultant would be left without cover in of the relevant area of the Health Service Execu- all reasonable circumstances and in accordance tive. In assessing a person’s eligibility, every with law. In February the Government formally aspect of an individual’s financial means and endorsed this assurance and this decision was medical expenses are carefully examined to conveyed to the IHCA and IMO by the Secretary ensure that no financial hardship is caused by the General to the Government. Following receipt of Health Service Executive’s refusal to grant a this information the IHCA decided to suspend its medical card in any particular case. threatened industrial action. The IMO has deferred its threatened action for two months. A Question No. 113 answered with Question small number of residual issues relating to the No. 77. operation of the scheme will be the subject of dis- cussions between my Department, the State Question No. 114 answered with Question Claims Agency and the medical organisations. No. 9. I should point out that the granting of these Clinical Indemnity Scheme. assurances does not in any way imply that the Government has changed its view that these liab- 115. Mr. Broughan asked the Ta´naiste and ilities are the responsibility of the MDU. This Minister for Health and Children the position of view is shared by the IHCA and the IMO. The negotiations with hospital consultants on the Government and the medical organisations are indemnity scheme; and if she will make a state- determined to ensure that the MDU will not be ment on the matter. [9388/05] allowed to walk away from its obligations to its Irish members. For that reason the assurances Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children (Ms Harney): The principal concern of hospital given to the consultants cannot be legally binding. consultants arising from the clinical indemnity I have also given an assurance that the State is scheme, CIS, has been the risk that some consult- willing to support consultants who decide to chal- ants could be left without indemnity cover for lenge MDU decisions to leave them without claims arising from events which occurred before assistance in dealing with personal injury claims. the inception date of the scheme. In agreeing to The intention is to exert the maximum pressure establish the CIS the Government decided that on the MDU to honour its obligations to its Irish the scheme should not cover claims arising from members and former members. events which preceded its establishment. The jus- Hospital Building Programme. tification for this decision was the fact that health boards and hospitals had purchased insurance 116. Mr. P. McGrath asked the Ta´naiste and cover for these events and consultants had paid Minister for Health and Children the stage of substantial subscriptions to the Medical Defence development of the old international trading Union, MDU, and the Medical Protection centre site; when the BreastCheck programme for Society, MPS, to cover claims against them aris- the south is due to be operational from this site; ing from the same period. In practice the vast and if she will make a statement on the bulk of the cost of both forms of indemnity cover matter. [9501/05] was borne by the Exchequer. The Government’s Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children position on historic liabilities has been accepted (Ms Harney): The roll out of the national breast by all of the insurance companies which operated screening programme to the remaining counties in this market and by the MPS. The only organis- is a major priority in the development of cancer ation which contested this decision was the MDU services. This will ensure that all women in the which argued that the State should take over relevant age group in every county have access to some of its historic liabilities. In an attempt to 1819 Questions— 23 March 2005. Written Answers 1820

[Ms Harney.] been discharged from the acute hospital sector to breast screening and follow up treatment where their own home. appropriate. The HSE has advertised and invited tenders A capital investment of approximately \21 from interested parties to provide the above ser- million has been approved to construct and equip vices and these are currently being evaluated. two static clinical units in the South Infirmary, Victoria Hospital, Cork and in University College Question No. 118 answered with Question Hospital, Galway. Design briefs for the capital No. 9. projects have been completed. It is anticipated that the advertisement for the appointment of a Question No. 119 answered with Question design team will be placed in the EU Journal No. 87. shortly. I am confident that the target date of 2007 for the expansion of the breast check prog- Nursing Home Charges. ramme nationally will be met. The Health Act 2004 provided for the Health 120. Mr. Gormley asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- Service Executive which was established on 1 ster for Health and Children to clarify the circum- January 2005. Under the Act the executive has stances surrounding the meeting last December the responsibility to manage and deliver or of the then Secretary General of the Department arrange to be delivered on its behalf health and of Health, Mr. Michael Kelly, with the former personal social services. This includes responsi- Minister for Health and Children, Mr. Martin, to bility for capital developments at acute hospitals. discuss the nursing home charges issue; when or Accordingly my Department has requested the whether she was briefed about this meeting; if chief officer for the executive’s southern area to Mr. John Travers was made aware of this meeting investigate the matters raised about progress on before finalising his report on the issue; and if she overall developments on the site referred to and will make a statement on the matter. [9435/05] to reply directly to the Deputy. Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children (Ms Harney): I understand that the meeting Hospital Accommodation. referred to took place on Monday, 13 December 117. Mr. S. Ryan asked the Minister of State at 2004 at the request of the Secretary General who the Department of Health and Children his pro- was in the course of preparing a report to me on posals to increase the number of public long stay the issue of public long stay charges for consider- beds; the projected timetable for implementation ation by the Government the next morning. I was of the proposals; if the necessary finance to fund briefed about the conversation at this meeting on these proposals has been approved; and if he will the following Wednesday. make a statement on the matter. [9430/05] The terms of reference for the report by Mr. Travers focused on events between 1976 and Minister of State at the Department of Health October 2004 when I sought legal advice from the and Children (Mr. S. Power): As the Deputy may Attorney General on the public long stay charges. be aware there is a commitment in the national Mr. Travers’s report sets out the information health strategy to provide 1,370 additional assess- which he judged to be relevant to and within the ment and rehabilitation beds and 600 additional terms of reference. day hospital beds with facilities encompassing I was not party to interviewees’ conversations specialist areas such as falls, osteoporosis treat- with Mr. Travers other than my own. I cannot ment, fracture prevention, Parkinson’s disease, say what he was told apart from the information stroke prevention, heart failure and continence contained in his report. promotion clinics. In addition the strategy pro- posed the provision of an extra 5,600 extended 121. Mr. Bruton asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- care community nursing unit places over a seven ster for Health and Children her views on her year period which will include provision for Secretary General referring a letter and briefing people with dementia. Provision of the above documents to the Attorney General; her further facilities was contingent on the allocation of the views on whether it would have been prudent to necessary resources. view this letter before it was sent, if matters of On the publication of the Estimates for 2005 important legal, financial and political con- the Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Chil- sequence could result from it; and if she will make dren announced a ten point plan to relieve a statement on the matter. [9526/05] ongoing pressure on acute hospital beds and acci- dent and emergency services. Under this plan Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children there are three specific proposals relating to ser- (Ms Harney): The subject of the Deputy’s ques- vices for older people: an additional 500 older tion is dealt with extensively in the Travers people are to receive intermediate care for up to report. I said in my statement to the House on 10 six weeks in the private sector; 100 high depen- March last that I accept the report’s assessments dency patients are to be transferred from the wholly and entirely. acute hospitals to private nursing home care; and The letter and briefing documents were sent to the home care package scheme is to be expanded the Attorney General last October at my request, to support 500 additional older people who have following the issue being raised in the House. 1821 Questions— 23 March 2005. Written Answers 1822

Whenever there is a question mark over the legal older people when they can no longer be main- basis for any public charge, there are important tained in dignity and independence at home. legal, political and financial issues involved. Numerous research studies have shown that the From my experience of these instances, vast majority of older people have a preference officials will seek the Attorney General’s advice to remain living in their own home for as long as and brief the Minister to that effect either before possible rather than moving into long-stay resi- or after seeking the advice. In either case dential care. important matters such as these should be dealt My Department has been encouraging the with quickly and Ministers kept informed. Health Service Executive to develop personal care packages for older people as an alternative Question No. 122 answered with Question to long-stay residential care. Personal care pack- No. 43. ages are specifically designed for the individual concerned and could possibly include the pro- Question No. 123 answered with Question vision of a home help service, home subvention No. 39. payments, arrangements for attendance at a day centre or day hospital and other services such as Organ Retention. twilight nursing. Personal care packages allow 124. Mr. Gogarty asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- older persons the option of remaining living in ster for Health and Children if she will report on their own home rather than going into long-stay the problems that have led to the Dunne inquiry’s residential care. In addition the HSE provide res- repeated failure to meet deadlines; and if she will pite care for older people and this service is seen make a statement on the matter. [9442/05] as an integral part of community support services which are being developed to support older Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children people living in the community. (Ms Harney): The terms of reference of the post My Department has established a working mortem inquiry are very broad, requiring it to group comprising all stakeholders to review the review post mortem policy, practice and pro- operation and administration of the nursing home cedure in all hospitals in the State since 1970 with subvention scheme following on from the publi- particular reference to organ removal, retention, cation of the O’Shea report. The purpose of the storage and disposal. The inquiry is also man- review is to develop a scheme which will be trans- dated to examine any arrangements with pharma- parent, offer a high standard of care for clients, ceutical companies in relation to retained organs provide equity within the system to include including pituitary glands. standardised dependency and means testing, be The chairman has confirmed that the inquiry less discretionary, provide both home and nursing has received considerable co-operation from each home subvention depending on need, be consist- of the hospitals with which it is dealing and that ent in implementation throughout the country the inquiry’s non-statutory nature has not thus far and draw on experience of the operation of the significantly hampered its substantive work. old scheme. Given the scope of the work the chairman has As the Deputy will be aware, the Mercer report only produced progress reports rather than a sub- on the future financing of long-term care in stantive report on any aspect of her work. Ireland, which was commissioned by the Depart- However, in accordance with a Government ment of Social and Family Affairs, examined decision of 1 September 2004 the chairman has issues surrounding the financing of long-term confirmed that she will provide her final report care. A working group chaired by the Depart- on or before 31 March. ment of the Taoiseach and comprising senior officials from the Departments of Finance, Care of the Elderly. Health and Children and Social and Family 125. Mr. Stanton asked the Minister of State Affairs has been established following on from at the Department of Health and Children the the publication of the report. The objective of this progress to date on a policy or framework for the group is to identify the policy options for a finan- future funding of long term care of the elderly; cially sustainable system of long-term care taking and if he will make a statement on the matter. account of the Mercer report, the views of the [6048/05] consultation that was undertaken on that report and the review of the nursing home subvention Minister of State at the Department of Health scheme by Professor Eamon O’Shea. This group and Children (Mr. S. Power): The policy of my has been requested to report to both the Minister Department on the care of older people is to for Social and Family Affairs and the Ta´naiste by maintain them in dignity and independence in mid 2005. Following this process it is intended their own home for as long as possible in accord- that there will be discussions with relevant ance with their wishes, to restore to independence interest groups on the proposals for the future at home those older people who become ill or financing of long-term care for older people. dependent, to encourage and support the care of older people in their own community by family, Health Services. neighbours and voluntary bodies and to provide a high quality of hospital and residential care for 126. Mr. Deenihan asked the Ta´naiste and 1823 Questions— 23 March 2005. Written Answers 1824

[ Mr. Deenihan.] as in bilateral meetings at ministerial and official Minister for Health and Children the measures levels whenever requested. she proposes to take to alleviate the financial dif- In late 2003, staff and other resources were ficulties experienced by rape crisis centres such as redeployed or assigned to the Presidency prog- that at Tralee, County Kerry; and if she will make ramme then agreed for the health sector. The a statement on the matter. [5078/05] Department, in co-operation with the CMOD, Department of Finance, addressed the training Minister of State at the Department of Health needs of staff who were identified as being and Children (Mr. S. Power): Moneys are made available each year, formerly through the health involved in EU business over the course of the boards and now through the Health Service Presidency. The Department, as a whole, deliv- Executive, for the provision of services to women ered on releasing additional staff resources when victims of violence. In recent years there has been required to Presidency business and events, with a substantial increase in funding so that now over this commitment covering the preparatory phase \12 million is provided annually for the provision as well as execution phase for events. of such services. The distribution of this funding Close links were maintained between the inter- is now a matter for the Health Service Executive. national unit and line divisions and the perma- My Department does not directly fund or co- nent representation, PRB, to the EU in Brussels ordinate health and personal social services to on an ongoing basis, regarding the scheduling, victims of abuse. chairing and participation in working groups and I have asked my Department, together with the other meetings in Brussels, Luxembourg, Geneva Health Service Executive, to undertake an analy- and so forth, as appropriate, in the lead into, and sis of the current level of service provision in this during, the Presidency. This work included close area with a view to planning future service needs. contacts with the Council secretariat and Com- mission. The relevant line divisions in my Depart- EU Presidency. ment were responsible for the preparation and management of events specific to their areas, with 127. Dr. Twomey asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- the international unit and the PRB having a gen- ster for Health and Children the work carried out eral co-ordination function in addition to manag- by her Department before and during the EU ing particular events. presidency; and if she will make a statement on During the Presidency itself, the Minister bri- the matter. [9520/05] efed the European Parliament Committee on the Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children Environment, Public Health and Consumer (Ms Harney): I will set out the work carried out Policy on 21 January 2004 on the health prog- by my predecessor and my Department in regard ramme of the Irish Presidency. The major theme to the EU Presidency over the period from early of the promotion of cardiovascular health 2001 to the end of the Presidency itself. The attracted a considerable focus of attention as a Government and my Department, in parallel with Presidency priority. An evidence based expert the other Departments, placed a high priority on conference, based on extensive preparatory work achieving a successful EU Presidency for Ireland. by experts, took place in Cork on 24 to 26 In late 2001, to prepare for the Irish Presi- February. A second cardiology conference took dency, interdepartmental co-ordinating commit- place on 10 and 11 May on the Agreement of tees were established by the Department of For- Cardiology Data Standards. eign Affairs, and my Department was Patient mobility was identified as a priority represented in these fora by the Department’s matter on which to advance deliberations international unit. The information emerging between Health Ministers during the period of from the various interdepartmental fora was the Irish Presidency. The Irish Presidency also analysed and circulated by the international unit contributed on the public health aspects of the to a range of units within the Department. Also, Commission’s environment and health action at this stage consideration was given to the likely plan. An expert workshop led by the Joint staffing and other resource requirements neces- Research Centre of the European Commission sary to manage a Presidency programme. took place on 22 and 23 April and informed In early 2002, a round table discussion involv- Council conclusions on childhood asthma. An e- ing the Department’s senior managers agreed to health conference, focusing on citizen friendly the establishment of a Presidency working group, applications of information and technology in PWG, chaired by the Secretary General and health, with related exhibition and awards and attended by the Minister, senior managers across associated closely with the eEurope action plan the Department, both directly and indirectly of the Community, took place on 5 and 6 May. involved, and the EU section of the international The Irish Presidency convened a special meet- unit. The PWG met monthly at first and then ing of EU Health Ministers in Brussels on 12 more regularly as required as the Presidency February to consider the threats to public health approached. My Department was also involved in the EU posed by outbreaks of avian flu in the over this period in ongoing contacts and meetings Far East. An informal meeting of Health Mini- with the relevant EU Commission directorates- sters was held on 12 May. Ministers followed up general, Italian and Dutch counterparts, as well on discussions held at the special Ministers meet- 1825 Questions— 23 March 2005. Written Answers 1826 ing on 12 February about improving Community L’Europe de L’Enfance, on 22 April 2004 in preparedness for dealing with communicable dis- Dublin Castle. Under the auspices of the Irish ease threats, including biological events, and held Presidency, the European social network organ- an important discussion on EU patient mobility ised the 12th European social services conference issues. The Secretary of Health and Human Ser- from 16 to 18 June 2004 with the theme of vices in the USA attended and made a presen- Delivering Quality and Access to Social Care and tation to the EU Ministers on the US approach to Health in an Enlarged Europe. The European prevention of cardiovascular diseases and obesity, health insurance card was introduced as and from particularly in young children. 1 June 2004 during the Irish Presidency. The successful Health Council on 2 June 2004 had an extensive discussion on EU patient Hospital Staff. mobility and related issues and Council con- 128. Dr. Twomey asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- clusions were adopted on promoting heart health, ster for Health and Children the number of posi- e-health, influenza pandemic preparedness plan- ning, patient mobility, alcohol and young people tions of personnel working in public hospitals and childhood asthma. The Ministers also here which are funded by pharmaceutical com- received reports on progress on Council dis- panies; and if she will make a statement on the cussions on proposals on health claims and food matter. [9523/05] fortification. Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children Ministers agreed at the Health Council on 2 (Ms Harney): The information requested by the June 2004 to the adaptation of the negotiating Deputy is not available in my Department. mandate of the European Commission regarding Accordingly, my Department has asked the the international health regulations of the World interim chief executive of the Health Service Health Organisation. As the EU Presidency, Executive to ascertain the number of positions in Ireland achieved agreement on a Council public hospitals which are funded by pharmaceut- decision to allow the Community and its member ical companies. Once I have received this infor- states ratify the WHO convention on tobacco mation I will revert to the Deputy on the matter control. Agreement was achieved under the Irish as quickly as possible. Presidency on the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control, an important EU public Question No. 129 answered with Question health proposal. The centre will be located in No. 42. Stockholm, Sweden. Other Presidency events included: a tobacco Nursing Home Subventions. control conference in Limerick on 17 and 18 June to review tobacco control policies in the Euro- 130. Mr. Bruton asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- \ pean Union; the 13th meeting of EU competent ster for Health and Children if the 2,000 ex gra- authorities for medical devices met under the tia payment agreed to be made to persons in pub- Irish Presidency in Dublin on 12 and 13 January; licly funded long stay nursing homes will not the Irish Medicines Board hosted a number of affect their long-term entitlement to moneys meetings of EU experts and competent auth- owing in accordance with the Supreme Court orities; an international food safety conference, decision; if the duration of payment will be back- under the auspices of the FSAI, on the issue of dated to the date on which these persons first the harmonisation of official food controls took entered long-term stay; and if she will make a place on 11 and 12 March; EU chief medical statement on the matter. [9547/05] officers met in Dublin on 11 and 12 March where 151. Mr. Deasy asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- they discussed recent developments in the area of ster for Health and Children if a person who public health in the EU; a meeting of govern- accepts the ex gratia payment of \2,000 being mental chief nurses took place on 16 April, which offered by the Health Executive Office will be facilitated an exchange of views among the par- entitled to claim for additional compensation ticipants regarding recent developments; the high under the national repayment scheme; and if she level committee on health, which is a body com- will make a statement on the matter. [9665/05] prised of high level officials from Health Minis- tries in member states, accession states and Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children EFTA countries, and which advises the European (Ms Harney): I propose to take Questions Nos. Commission on public health matters, met in 130 and 151 together. Dublin on 26 and 27 April; a conference on work- The ex gratia payment scheme refunded fully place health promotion, WHP, Networking eligible persons, who paid for inpatient services Workplace Health in Europe, took place in June; in long stay care institutions and who were alive on 17-18 June the final meeting and conference on 9 December 2004, up to \2,000 and payments to launch the outcome of the EU Commission made under this scheme will be incorporated into funded project to draw up a European blueprint the repayment under the national scheme. Full for action on breastfeeding took place. details of the scheme will be announced as soon The National Children’s Office hosted a suc- as possible and it is the intention to make repay- cessful meeting of the intergovernmental group, ments as automatic as possible. 1827 Questions— 23 March 2005. Written Answers 1828

[Ms Harney.] priate, will refer her to the symptomatic services Any person who considers that they or a family in her area. More than \60 million has been member may be eligible for repayment may regis- invested in the development of symptomatic bre- ter their interest in advance with the Health Ser- ast disease services since 2000. This investment vice Executive by writing to the National Refund has enabled the appointment of additional sur- Scheme, HSE Midland Area, Arden Road, geons with an interest in breast disease, histopa- Tullamore, County Offaly, or e-mail to refund- thologists and radiologists to enhance the deliv- [email protected] or by calling the helpline ery of breast cancer services nationally. 1800 777737 during office hours. BreastCheck, having considered a number of options, has advised my Department that the full Question No. 131 answered with Question implementation of the national breast screening No. 26. programme is the best approach to ensuring that a quality screening programme is available to all Hospital Services. women in the target age group throughout the 132. Mr. O’Shea asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- country. The roll out of this programme is a ster for Health and Children if her Department’s major priority in the development of cancer ser- guidelines for the administration of chemo- vices. The roll out requires significant capital and therapy are being breached due to the failure of human resources, including two static clinical her Department to adequately resource oncology units, mobile screening units, multi-disciplinary services in regard to adequate day wards and des- consultant teams and radiographers together with ignated oncology wards; and if she will make a technical and administrative support. \ statement on the matter. [9549/05] A capital investment of 21 million has been approved to construct and equip the two clinical Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children units and to provide for mobile units. The invest- (Ms Harney): The Health Act 2004 provided for ment will ensure that breast screening and follow the Health Service Executive, which was estab- up treatment, where appropriate, is available to lished on 1 January 2005. Under the Act, the all women in the target group throughout the executive has the responsibility to manage and country. I am confident that the target date of deliver, or arrange to be delivered on its behalf, 2007 for the expansion of BreastCheck nationally health and personal social services. This includes will be met. responsibility for the delivery of hospital services, including the application of guidelines for the use Hospital Services. of cytotoxic medical preparations in the treat- ment of patients with cancer. The principal 135. Mr. O’Shea asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- element in the implementation of guidelines is ster for Health and Children the additional ser- the provision of services by medical consultants vices which have been provided in each of the with appropriate training in cancer HSE areas for the development of cancer services chemotherapy. in 2005; and if she will make a statement on the Since 1997, cumulative additional investment matter. [9552/05] \ of approximately 720 million in cancer care has Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children led to the appointment of an additional 109 con- (Ms Harney): The Health Act 2004 provided for sultants, including 18 medical oncologists, 12 hae- the Health Service Executive, which was estab- matologists and over 250 cancer nurse specialists. lished on 1 January 2005. Under the Act, the This investment has ensured that there has been executive has the responsibility to manage and a significant improvement in the range and qual- deliver, or arrange to be delivered on its behalf, ity of cancer services generally and in particular health and personal social services. This includes in medical oncology and in the provision of responsibility for the issues raised by the Deputy. oncology drugs. Accordingly, my Department has requested the director of the national hospitals office to investi- Question No. 133 answered with Question gate the matters raised and to reply directly to No. 19. the Deputy. Cancer Screening Programme. 136. Mr. O’Shea asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- ster for Health and Children her views on 134. Mr. O’Shea asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- whether the provision of a regional cancer care ster for Health and Children if she will make centre is an absolute priority in the south eastern available mammograms for women in Waterford area; and if she will make a statement on the on the basis that there is the capacity to treat matter. [9553/05] them in the symptomatic unit pending the imple- mentation of BreastCheck in Cork; and if she will Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children make a statement on the matter. [9551/05] (Ms Harney): The Health Act 2004 provided for Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children the Health Service Executive, which was estab- (Ms Harney): Any woman, irrespective of her age lished on 1 January 2005. Under the Act, the or residence, who has concerns about breast can- executive has the responsibility to manage and cer should contact her GP who, where appro- deliver, or arrange to be delivered on it behalf, 1829 Questions— 23 March 2005. Written Answers 1830 health and personal social services. This includes experience if they are unable to obtain employ- responsibility for the provision of cancer services. ment in the first place with the western area of Accordingly, my Department has requested the the Health Service Executive; and if she will chief officer for the executive’s south eastern area make a statement on the matter. [9557/05] to investigate the matters raised and to reply directly to the Deputy. Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children (Ms Harney): Following the settlement of a High Question No. 137 answered with Question Court action, a revised mechanism for the assess- No. 87. ment of chiropodists who wished to practise in the public health service was finalised in early Question No. 138 answered with Question 2003. The High Court settlement laid down the No. 24. eligibility requirements for access to this revised assessment. These were that an applicant should Community Nursing Units. have at least five years practice in chiropody at the date of application during which period such 139. Mr. Kenny asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- practice constituted the applicant’s principal ster for Health and Children if she will continue source of income. The closing date for appli- with plans to provide beds in CNUs through cations for the assessment process, conducted public private partnership as announced in July under the aegis of my Department, was 31 May 2002; the reason the southern and eastern regions 2003. In order to be eligible to apply for the were chosen for the plan; her estimated costs of the project; and if she will make a statement on assessment, a chiropodist would have had to be the matter. [9556/05] in practice at end May 1998. The majority of applicants who were eligible to apply for assess- Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children ment obtained the requisite five years’ experience (Ms Harney): There have been discussions in private practice. The assessment process con- between my Department and the Department of cluded early this year. Two significant devel- Finance on the proposal to deliver 850 com- opments have taken place in recent months that munity nursing unit beds through a public private will impact on the assessment of chiropodists partnership and the work that has been done so wishing to practise in the public health service far has helped to clarify a number of issues. The going forward. public sector benchmarks prepared for the pro- The Health and Social Care Professionals Bill jects provide a detailed risk adjusted costing of 2004, which provides for the establishment of a the PPP projects in the southern and eastern system of statutory registration for health and regions, where the shortage of long-stay beds is social care professionals, including chiropodists, most acute. In accordance with Department of was published on 27 October 2004 and has com- Finance policy the estimated cost of a PPP project menced its passage through the Houses of the is not made available until the preferred bidder Oireachtas. Under the legislation, the Chirop- has been selected and the contract signed. odists Registration Board will be legally respon- It is important that appropriate step down ser- sible for establishing and maintaining a register vices are available to match the needs of patients of chiropodists going forward. who are ready to be discharged from hospital. The Health Act 2004, which provides for the Following the health Estimates for 2005, I announced that patients awaiting discharge would establishment of the Health Service Executive, be accommodated in private nursing home beds repealed section 18 of the Health Act 1970 which for up to six weeks. On discharge from the private provided that qualifications for appointment as nursing home they would go to a nursing home an officer under a health board had to be of their choice or to their own home with the sup- approved of or directed by the Minister for port of a home care package. In addition, the Health and Children. Under the 2004 Act, the home care packages will be extended to support executive now has responsibility for the appoint- 500 additional older people at home and 100 high ment of staff, including the determination of eligi- dependency patients will transfer to suitable bility for employment in terms of the assessment private nursing home care. The provision of of qualifications, skills, knowledge and com- additional long stay capacity is required to relieve petence to perform the role required of any part- pressure on the acute hospital and community icular post. care programme and I am pursuing the need to deliver such capacity with the Minister for Fin- Health Services. ance as a matter of high priority. 141. Ms Shortall asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- ster for Health and Children the reason for the Health Service Staff. inordinate delay in providing a full drug treat- 140. Dr. Cowley asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- ment facility in the Finglas area of Dublin as ster for Health and Children further to promised nearly ten years ago; the steps being Parliamentary Question No. 182 of 15 February taken to provide this much needed facility; and 2005, the way in which a person (details supplied) the timescale involved; and if she will make a in County Mayo can achieve five years work statement on the matter. [9561/05] 1831 Questions— 23 March 2005. Written Answers 1832

Minister of State at the Department of Health [email protected], or by calling the helpline and Children (Mr. S. Power): The Health Act 1800 777737 during office hours. The Supreme 2004 provided for the Health Service Executive, Court judgment of 16 February 2005 related only which was established on 1 January 2005. Under to charges in public long-stay institutions and the Act, the executive has the responsibility to publicly contracted beds in private nursing manage and deliver, or arrange to be delivered homes. on its behalf, health and personal social services. 146. Dr. Upton asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- This includes responsibility for drug treatment ster for Health and Children if the estate of a services. Accordingly, my Department has person (details supplied) will receive a refund fol- requested the chief officer of the northern area lowing the imposition of nursing home charges to investigate the matter raised and to reply during the person’s lifetime. [9566/05] directly to the Deputy. 142. Mr. Wall asked the Ta´naiste and Minister Minister of State at the Department of Health for Health and Children the position regarding and Children (Mr. S. Power): The Supreme Court an application by a person (details supplied) in judgment of 16 February 2005 related only to County Kildare in regard to treatment for an charges in public long-stay institutions and pub- optical problem; and if she will make a statement licly contracted beds in private nursing homes. A on the matter. [9562/05] special Cabinet sub-committee comprising the Taoiseach, the Minister for Finance, the Attorney Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children General and the Minister for Health and Chil- (Ms Harney): The Health Act 2004 provided for dren has been established to consider the issue of the Health Service Executive, which was estab- repayment in the light of the judgement. lished on 1 January 2005. Under the Act, the executive has the responsibility to manage and Residential Home Charges. deliver, or arrange to be delivered on its behalf, 147. Dr. Upton asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- health and personal social services. As the person ster for Health and Children if she will review the in question resides in County Kildare, my Depart- current practice of residential homes, such as St. ment has requested the chief officer for the Michael’s House and St. John of God taking half executive’s eastern regional area to investigate of their client’s weekly disability allowance; and the matter raised and to reply directly to the if she will make a statement on the matter. Deputy. [9567/05] Questions Nos. 143 and 144 answered with Minister of State at the Department of Health Question No. 87. and Children (Mr. T. O’Malley): The practice of charging or seeking a contribution from clients Nursing Home Subventions. with a disability in residential care who had income which may include a disability benefit or 145. Dr. Upton asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- allowance had been a feature of the health ser- ster for Health and Children the position regard- vices for many years. Following the Attorney ing the refund of nursing home charges to General’s advice that there was no legal basis for patients or their estates; the situation for elderly such charges the health agencies were instructed persons who held or hold medical cards, but who to stop charging for long-stay care on 9 December occupy private beds; and if she will make a state- 2004. The situation regarding contributions ment on the matter. [9565/05] sought, for rent or otherwise, was further clarified Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children by my Department in a letter issued on 23 (Ms Harney): My Department is currently study- December 2004. The Health Service Executive ing the Supreme Court judgment on the repay- has obtained legal advice on these practices which ment of charges for publicly-funded long-term supports the Department’s decision in December residential care in detail and will take on board to cease charging or requiring contributions by all the consequences for policy and law arising eligible persons. My Department is considering from the judgment. A special Cabinet sub-com- the extent to which these practices are affected mittee, comprising the Taoiseach, the Minister for by the Supreme Court decision of 16 February Finance, the Attorney General and myself, has 2005 and this will be taken into account in the been established to consider the issue of repay- detailed operation of the repayments scheme ment in light of the judgment. Full details of a which I expect to put in place shortly. repayment scheme will be announced as soon as possible and it is the intention to make repay- Medical Cards. ments as automatic as possible. Any person who 148. Mr. McGuinness asked the Ta´naiste and considers that he or she or a family member may Minister for Health and Children if she will be eligible for repayment may register their review an application for a medical card which interest in advance with the Health Service was refused in the name of a person (details Executive, by writing to the national refund supplied) in County Kilkenny with a view to scheme, HSE midland area, Arden Road, granting the card on the grounds of hardship; and Tullamore, County Offaly,or by e-mail to refund- if she will expedite the appeal. [9568/05] 1833 Questions— 23 March 2005. Written Answers 1834

Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children sider the recommendations of the Pollock report (Ms Harney): The Health Act 2004 provided for on the treatment of cystic fibrosis here; when and the Health Service Executive, which was estab- the frequency with which this group will meet; the lished on 1 January 2005. Under the Act, the timescales for completing the work of this group; executive has the responsibility to manage and and if she will make a statement on the deliver, or arrange to be delivered on its behalf, matter. [9703/05] health and personal social services. This includes responsibility for the assessment of applications Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children for medical cards. Accordingly, my Department (Ms Harney): The Health Act 2004 provided for has requested the chief officer for the executive’s the Health Service Executive, which was estab- south eastern area to investigate the matter raised lished on 1 January 2005. Under the Act, the and to reply directly to the Deputy. executive has the responsibility to manage and deliver, or arrange to be delivered on its behalf, Hospital Services. health and personal social services. This includes responsibility for health services for patients with 149. Ms McManus asked the Ta´naiste and cystic fibrosis. Minister for Health and Children if she has a The Cystic Fibrosis Association of Ireland responsibility to provide maternity services to all commissioned Dr. Ronnie Pollock to review the women here who need them; and the provision existing hospital services for people with cystic which is made for a woman who cannot reach a fibrosis in the context of accepted international maternity hospital in time due to distance; and if standards. Dr. Pollock’s report was officially she will make a statement on the matter. launched earlier this year. [9610/05] The report provides an assessment of need for Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children current and future cystic fibrosis patients and (Ms Harney): The Health Act 2004 provided for makes a number of recommendations with regard the Health Service Executive, which was estab- to the numbers and categories of staff that are lished on 1 January 2005. Under the Act, the appropriate for a modern, multi-disciplinary cys- executive has the responsibility to manage and tic fibrosis service. The report concluded that cys- deliver, or arrange to be delivered on its behalf, tic fibrosis care should be provided in fewer units health and personal social services. This includes of a more significant size so that viable staffing responsibility for maternity services. Accordingly, levels can be maintained and to ensure that staff my Department has requested the director of the have a sufficient workload to enable them to national hospitals office at the Health Service maintain their skills level. Executive to investigate the matter raised and to Following the publication of the Pollock report, reply to the Deputy directly. the Health Service Executive met the Cystic Fibrosis Association and agreed to the latter’s Ambulance Service. request to establish a working group to consider the report’s recommendations. The composition 150. Mr. Davern asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- of the working group, and other related issues ster for Health and Children the position regard- such as the timescale for completion of its report, ing the charges by health boards for the use of are matters for the HSE. Accordingly, my ambulances in all instances including emerg- Department has requested the executive to reply encies; and if she will make a statement on the directly to the Deputy in relation to these matter. [9611/05] matters. Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children (Ms Harney): The Health Act 2004 provided for Medical Cards. the Health Service Executive, which was estab- lished on 1 January 2005. Under the Act, the 153. Mr. Durkan asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- executive has the responsibility to manage and ster for Health and Children the number of medi- deliver, or arrange to be delivered on its behalf, cal cards in use; the extent to which this number health and personal social services. Responsibility is expected to increase in the near future; and if for the issue raised by the Deputy rests with the she will make a statement on the matter. national hospitals office of the Health Service [9727/05] Executive. Accordingly, my Department has Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children requested the director of the national hospitals (Ms Harney): On 1 March 2005, there were office to investigate the matter raised and to reply 768,316 current medical cards providing services directly to the Deputy. for 1,144,578 persons, or 28.3% of the population of 4,043,800 — based on the official estimate of Question No. 151 answered with Question population as at September 2004. The medical No. 130. card income guidelines were increased from 1 January 2005 and it is estimated that this will Health Services. increase the numbers eligible for medical cards 152. Mr. Stanton asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- by approximately 30,000 in a year. ster for Health and Children the details of the Free access to general practitioner visits under membership of the working group set up to con- the GMS scheme will be provided to individuals 1835 Questions— 23 March 2005. Written Answers 1836

[Ms Harney.] nurses availing of opportunities to change and families based on income guidelines, which employment and locations. Nurse recruitment is may be up to 25% in excess of the new medical a priority for the Government. The HSE-ERD card income guidelines. It is estimated that reported that in the year ending 30 September 200,000 persons will become eligible for free GP 2004 an additional 561 nurses were employed in services under this initiative. The additional the health service and since 1997 over 6,300 200,000 doctor visit cards will be introduced pro- additional nurses have been recruited. gressively from April 2005, once the administra- The situation with regard to non-consultant tive arrangements are in place. hospital doctor, NCHD, posts, based on the most recent HSE-ERD survey of these, is that Health Service Staff. employers reported that 35 vacancies out of a 154. Mr. Durkan asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- total of 4,041 posts existed at 15 March 2005, a ster for Health and Children the number of con- vacancy rate of less than 1%. sultancy posts at medical or surgical level vacant As I have indicated previously to the Deputy, throughout the health service; her plans to fill the responsibility for the management of the these posts; and if she will make a statement on workforce in a given Health Service Executive, the matter. [9728/05] HSE, area lies exclusively with the chief officer of that area. However, in order to improve 155. Mr. Durkan asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- recruitment and retention prospects my Depart- ster for Health and Children the number of staff ment has put in place a number of important required at medical, surgical and nursing levels initiatives to meet the human resource needs of throughout the entire health service; her plans to the health services. meet such requirements in full; and if she will Specific human resources initiatives in key make a statement on the matter. [9729/05] areas such as pay rates, improvements in career 158. Mr. Durkan asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- structure and enhanced opportunities for pro- ster for Health and Children the number of nurs- fessional and career development have and will ing, medical and surgical vacancies awaiting to be play a part in increasing staffing levels. Overseas filled; when she expects to be in a position to recruitment by health agencies has, over recent meet this requirement in full; and if she will make years, also contributed significantly to meeting a statement on the matter. [9732/05] the workforce needs of the health services, partic- ularly in the medical, surgical and nursing pro- Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children fessions. (Ms Harney): I propose to take Questions Nos. 154, 155 and 158 together. The Irish healthcare service is moving towards As regards hospital consultant posts, the a system where there is greater skill mix and national hospitals office-comhairle has informed grade mix involved in the delivery of healthcare me that on 22 March 2005 the number of services, therefore the ratio of nurses to patients approved consultant posts was 1,947 of which 278 will be lower. In coming years there will be a were approved and unfilled on a permanent basis. higher proportion of support workers including While waiting to be filled on a permanent basis healthcare assistants involved in the delivery of over 50% of these posts are filled by approved care, freeing up nurses and midwives to concen- temporary appointments. Furthermore, of these trate more of their time on higher level duties and 278 posts unfilled on a permanent basis, 238 have expanding the scope of their practice. been advertised and for these, 79 candidates have It is Government policy to substantially been selected to date. This number of 1,947 increase the number of consultants throughout approved posts shows an increase of 655 since the next decade. All non-consultant hospital 1997 — a 50% increase in eight years — which is, doctors are given the opportunity of proper skills by any standards, a significant demonstration of development on the basis that many in this cate- this Government’s investment in consultants in gory will become the consultants of tomorrow. recent years. The number of unfilled posts is con- Given the large numbers of staff employed and stantly changing due mainly to retirements, the unique nature of the services being delivered, replacement and additional posts being approved a coherent, strategic approach to workforce and and the necessarily complex procedure of filling human resource planning needs to be developed these posts with doctors of the required high stan- further. This should be aligned closely with stra- dards of qualification and experience. tegic objectives and the service planning process. With regard to nursing posts, according to the Planning for the development of new and existing most recent Health Service Executive — services in the future must be soundly based on employer representative division, HSE-ERD, a robust and realistic assessment of the skill and survey of nursing resources, recruitment remains human resource needs to deliver these services. well ahead of resignations and retirements. Enhanced skills mix by matching skills to service Employers reported that 765 vacancies existed as needs benefits patients and empowers health per- at 31 December 2004, a vacancy rate of 2.25%. sonnel to reach their full potential. This optimises This could be considered to be a normal rate, their contribution to quality care. given that there will always be some level of The continued implementation of the action movement due to resignations, retirements and plan for people management has a crucial role 1837 Questions— 23 March 2005. Written Answers 1838 to play in improving retention and reducing the Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children turnover of skilled staff. In addition, the Health (Ms Harney): The Health Act 2004 provided for Service Executive will be centrally involved in the the Health Service Executive, which was estab- development of an integrated workforce planning lished on 1 January 2005. Under the Act, the strategy for the health sector. executive has the responsibility to manage and deliver, or arrange to be delivered on its behalf, Cancer Incidence. health and personal social services. This includes responsibility for the use of hospital wards and 156. Mr. Durkan asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- beds. Accordingly, my Department has requested ster for Health and Children the extent to which the Health Services Executive-National Hospitals she has evaluated trends in respect of the various Office to investigate the matter raised and to forms of cancer on a county basis; if she has con- reply directly to the Deputy. sidered the cause or causes for higher levels in certain areas and regions; and if she will make a Question No. 158 answered with Question statement on the matter. [9730/05] No. 154. Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children (Ms Harney): The national cancer registry has National Treatment Purchase Fund. statutory responsibility for the collation and 159. Mr. Durkan asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- analysis of information on incidence and preva- ster for Health and Children the position in lence of cancer in Ireland. Reports of the registry regard to waiting lists in respect of hip, heart or have examined variations in incidence of cancer eye surgery; and if she will make a statement on among counties and former health-board areas the matter. [9733/05] during the period from 1994 onwards. Variations in case numbers, overall or for particular cancers, Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children obviously reflect variations in population size or (Ms Harney): Responsibility for the collation and in population age-structure. Age-standardized publishing of waiting list and waiting time data rates show less variation, but nevertheless some now rests with the national treatment purchase variation is evident, although for most counties or fund, NTPF. The NTPF, which is a statutory Health Service Executive areas, rates do not show body, was established as one of the key actions statistically significant variation from the national for dealing with public hospital waiting lists aris- average. The main exception is Dublin and the ing from the health strategy. My Department has, eastern regional area, where incidence rates are therefore, asked the chief executive of the NTPF higher than the national average for cancers as a to reply to the Deputy directly with regard to the whole, and for a number of individual cancers, information requested. including lung, breast and prostate cancers. For lung and a number of other cancers, variation is Health Services. strongly influenced by smoking, which tends to 160. Mr. Durkan asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- be most prevalent in urban, particularly deprived ster for Health and Children the extent of child urban, areas. For breast and prostate cancer, support services available to parents of children incidence rates may be increased in areas where with serious behavioural problems; and if she will there are higher levels of screening, for example, make a statement on the matter. [9734/05] breast screening. In general, cancers not strongly Minister of State at the Department of Health influenced by smoking, socio-economic or screen- and Children (Mr. B. Lenihan): The Health Act ing-related factors show less marked variation 2004 provided for the Health Service Executive, within Ireland, and any such variation cannot which was established on 1 January 2005. Under readily be attributed to specific factors without the Act, the executive has the responsibility to further research into specific cancers. Dis- manage and deliver, or arrange to be delivered tinguishing true geographic variation from ran- on its behalf, health and personal social services. dom or chance variation is also a problem given Responsibility for the provision of child sup- the small numbers of cases involved at county port services to parents of children with serious level for most cancers. behavioural problems rests with the executive. Statistical and epidemiological protocols have My Department has requested the primary, com- been devised to help evaluate small area clusters munity and continuing care directorate of the where higher than normal incidences of cancer Health Service Executive to investigate the are believed to exist. Responsibility for examin- matter raised and to reply directly to the Deputy. ing such clusters rests with the Health Service Executive in the area. 161. Mr. Durkan asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- ster for Health and Children her plans to provide Hospital Accommodation. enhanced support for the parents of autistic chil- dren; and if she will make a statement on the 157. Mr. Durkan asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- matter. [9735/05] ster for Health and Children the extent to which beds or hospital wards are idle or unoccupied at Minister of State at the Department of Health present; and if she will make a statement on the and Children (Mr. T. O’Malley): The Health Act matter. [9731/05] 2004 provided for the Health Service Executive, 1839 Questions— 23 March 2005. Written Answers 1840

[Mr. T. O’Malley.] the executive’s eastern regional area to examine which was established on 1 January, 2005. Under the issues raised and to reply to the Deputy the Act, the executive has the responsibility to directly. manage and deliver, or arrange to be delivered on its behalf, health and personal social services. Health Services. This includes responsibility for disability services. 164. Mr. Durkan asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- As the Deputy may be aware, my colleague, ster for Health and Children the method for the Minister for Finance, in his 2005 budget made \ assessment in respect of orthodontic require- available additional funding in the sum of 55 ments; the average number deemed to require million for services to persons with an intellec- such services in a single year; the number tual, physical or sensory disability and those with \ expected to receive treatment in the same year; autism. Additional capital funding of 34 million and if she will make a statement on the has also been provided in 2005. matter. [9738/05] Furthermore, when launching the national dis- ability strategy, the Taoiseach announced the Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children Government’s commitment to a multi-annual (Ms Harney): The Health Act 2004 provided for investment programme for disability specific ser- the Health Service Executive, which was estab- vices over the next five years, details of which lished on 1 January 2005. Under the Act, the were announced on budget day. The investment executive has the responsibility to manage and programme for disability specific services will deliver, or arrange to be delivered on its behalf, have a total cumulative value of \900 million for health and personal social services. This includes the period 2006-2009. It will be a matter for the responsibility for orthodontic services. Health Service Executive to allocate this funding. The aim of my Department is to develop the treatment capacity of orthodontics in a sus- 162. Mr. Durkan asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- tainable way over the longer term. Given the ster for Health and Children her plans or the potential level of demand for orthodontic ser- directions she has given to the Health Service vices, the provision of those services will continue Executive to assist parents of children with mild to be based on prioritisation of cases based on to severe behavioural problems; and if she will treatment need, as happens under the existing make a statement on the matter. [9736/05] orthodontic guidelines. Under the Health Act 1970, a child is eligible Minister of State at the Department of Health for orthodontic treatment on the basis of defects and Children (Mr. B. Lenihan): The Health Act noted at a school health examination carried out 2004 provided for the Health Service Executive, while the child is attending national school. which was established on 1 January 2005. Under Entitlement to orthodontic treatment is deter- the Act, the executive has the responsibility to mined by reference to orthodontic guidelines, a plan, manage and deliver, or arrange to be deliv- set of objective clinical criteria applied by HSE ered on its behalf, health and personal social orthodontists when assessing children’s priority of services. need for treatment. Responsibility for the planning and provision The guidelines were issued by my Department of services for children with mild to severe in 1985; they are intended to enable HSE areas behavioural problems rests with the executive. to identify in a consistent way those in greatest No ministerial directions have been issued in need and to commence timely treatment for relation to this matter. them. Patients in category A require immediate treatment and include those with congenital Hospital Services. abnormalities of the jaws such as cleft lip and pal- 163. Mr. Durkan asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- ate, and patients with major skeletal discrepanc- ster for Health and Children the full extent of the ies between the sizes of the jaws; patients in cate- respiratory and tuberculosis services previously gory B have less severe problems than category available at Peamount Hospital, Newcastle, A patients and are placed on the orthodontic County Dublin; the current locations of such ser- treatment waiting list. Patients in category C have vices; the replacement services provided at Peam- less severe problems than in category B. The ount; and if she will make a statement on the number of cases treated is dependent on the level matter. [9737/05] of resources available, in terms of qualified staff, in the area, and this is reflected in the treatment Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children waiting list. In fact, the provision of orthodontic (Ms Harney): The Health Act 2004 provided for services for patients in category C is currently the Health Service Executive, which was estab- severely restricted due to the limited availability lished on 1 January 2005. Under the Act, the of trained specialist clinical staff to assess and executive has the responsibility to manage and treat patients. Consequently, a category C waiting deliver, or arrange to be delivered on its behalf, list may not be maintained in some HSE areas. health and personal social services. The chief officers of the HSE areas have Services at Peamount Hospital are provided informed my Department that at the end of the under an arrangement with the executive. My December 2004 quarter there were 9,954 children Department has requested the chief officer for awaiting orthodontic assessment, 10,953 children 1841 Questions— 23 March 2005. Written Answers 1842 awaiting orthodontic treatment and 23,572 chil- income for the previous 12 months. Income from dren receiving orthodontic treatment in the all sources is taken into account, including wages, public orthodontic service. salary, pension, allowances, payments for part- time and seasonal work, income from rentals, Nursing Home Subventions. investments and savings and all contributions 165. Ms Shortall asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- from all sources. Income is assessed net of PRSI, ster for Health and Children the legal entitlement income tax and the health contribution and the to nursing home care of a person with a medical income of a married or cohabiting person is taken to be half the total income of the couple. In card; and the legal basis on which health auth- \ orities may refuse a subvention in cases in which assessing an applicant’s assets the first 7,618 of a medical card holder has an asset such as a such assets is disregarded and if their assets, home. [9755/05] excluding their principal residence exceed \25,740, an application may be refused. Minister of State at the Department of Health An application for subvention may be refused and Children (Mr. S. Power): The legal position under section 22 of the Second Schedule of the surrounding long-stay charges in health board Nursing Homes (Subvention) Regulations 1993 if institutions is based on a succession of provisions the value of the applicant’s principal residence is in the Health Acts 1947-2001, various sets of in excess of \95,230 and the residence is not occu- regulations made under those Acts and interpre- pied by a spouse, a son or daughter aged less than tation of those provisions arising from judgments twenty one years or in full time education or a on particular cases in the courts. Under the cur- relative in receipt of the disabled person’s main- rent system of eligibility as set down in section 45 tenance allowance, blind person’s pension, dis- of the Health Act 1970, anyone ordinarily resi- ability benefit, invalidity pension, or old age non- dent in the State has either full eligibility, that is, contributory pension and the person’s income is a medical card holder, or limited eligibility greater than \6,350 per annum. If the house is not regardless of means or financial contribution to occupied by one of the above listed, then the the exchequer. Other than for persons over the HSE may impute an annual income equivalent to age of seventy who have full eligibility automati- 5% of the estimated market value of the principal cally regardless of means since 1 July 2001, full residence. If an applicant’s spouse is still resident eligibility is granted on hardship grounds — usu- in their home at the time of application, then that ally on the basis of low income but sometimes for house may not be assessed for subvention medical reasons. purposes. The Department has long held the view, based In the case of the HSE eastern area the prac- on legal advice, that the Health Act 1970, as tice is to carry out a full financial assessment on amended, distinguished between eligibility and the applicant and to assess the value of the prop- entitlement although the two terms are often erty as part of this assessment. If an adult son or used interchangeably. To be eligible means that a daughter aged 21 years or more and not in full- person qualifies to avail of services, either with- time education only is resident in the house at the out charge — full eligibility — or subject to pre- time of application and is not in receipt of one of scribed charges — limited eligibility. Section 52 the above listed payments from the Department of the 1970 Act requires health boards to make of Social and Family Affairs, then the house may available inpatient services for persons with full be assessed for subvention purposes. The HSE eligibility and persons with limited eligibility; may assess the value of any asset or assets trans- however the manner and extent to which inpati- ferred from the ownership of the person in the ent services are to be made available and the nat- five years prior to the application in assessing the ure and extent of the inpatient services to be pro- means of the person. vided are not specified. The placing of a person in a private nursing Flood Relief. home is a private matter between the person or 166. Mr. N. O’Keeffe asked the Minister for his or her representatives and the nursing home Finance the position regarding the flood relief proprietor, as are the fees charged in these facili- plans to be put in place in two areas (details ties. The Health (Nursing Homes) Act 1990 supplied) in County Cork. [9622/05] allows for the payment of a subvention towards the cost of such care based on a medical and Minister of State at the Department of Finance means assessment. The process used in determin- (Mr. Parlon): The Deputy will be aware that the ing a person’s eligibility for subvention is set out Office of Public Works commissioned consultants in the nursing homes regulations 1993. in 2002 to carry out feasibility studies to assess Under the regulations the Health Service flood risk and to develop flood alleviation Executive when considering an application for schemes in the towns of Mallow and Fermoy in subvention carries out a means test which takes County Cork. Engineering reports were com- into account the means of the applicant and his or pleted in late 2003 for both areas. Public infor- her spouse-cohabiting partner, where appropriate mation days were held in the spring of 2004 and the assets of the applicant. The means test is where the proposed works and the phased usually carried out by the local community wel- methods of implementation were outlined for the fare officer and involves looking at the applicant’s elected members and the general public. 1843 Questions— 23 March 2005. Written Answers 1844

[Mr. Parlon.] waters and who have been waiting for a number The proposed scheme in Mallow includes the of months for such payment. [9605/05] construction of new walls and embankments, new Minister of State at the Department of Finance culverts, lowering of ground levels around (Mr. Parlon): The humanitarian aid scheme Mallow bridge, and some use of demountable approved by the Government following the structures. The scheme will have flood protection serious flooding which affected various locations against a one in 100 flood. Phase 1 of the scheme, around the country in late October 2004 was for involving the construction of new culverts in the the relief of hardship arising from the flooding of town and road works on the Park Road, which people’s homes. The cases to which the Deputy will be funded by the Office of Public Works and refers are among a small number of outstanding executed by the local authority, is expected to cases, which are the subject of ongoing consul- commence in late April of this year. The contrac- tation with the Irish Red Cross Society. tor for these works will be appointed very shortly. Full public exhibition of the scheme, as Ministerial Staff. required under the Arterial Drainage Acts, is programmed to take place in early June 2005 at 169. Mr. Bruton asked the Minister for Finance which point the public may make observations the roles and functions carried out by any special and comment which will have to be considered advisers attached to his Department; if any circu- before moving to the next stage of the scheme. lars or instructions have been issued within his The proposed scheme in Fermoy involves the Department concerning special advisers, and if construction of permanent walls and embank- so, if he will provide a copy of any such circu- ments along with the use of extensive demount- lar. [9606/05] able structures. The scheme will have flood pro- 172. Mr. Bruton asked the Minister for Finance tection against a one in 100 year flood. Before the if the special advisers attached to his Department Fermoy scheme is built it is essential to have an are part of the line management system of his effective flood warning system in operation and Department. [9650/05] the OPW has commenced this development as part of phase 1 of the scheme. The formal public Minister for Finance (Mr. Cowen): I propose exhibition of the scheme, as required under the to take Questions Nos. 169 and 172 together. Arterial Drainage Acts, is expected to take place By Government order, SI No. 665 of 19 in the autumn of 2005, which is slightly later than October 2004, Mr. Gerry Steadman has been anticipated before, but is due to the need to appointed as my special adviser. Section 11(2)(a) review the hydrological and hydraulic analyses and (b) of the Public Service Management Act following the severe nationwide flooding in 1997 sets out the roles, functions and account- October 2004. Progress of the scheme will depend ability of special advisers, which include the pro- on the observations received during exhibition. vision of advice to me on a range of issues, con- The timetable for completing all phases of tributing to the achievement of Government these schemes will depend on the availability of objectives relating to my Department and such funds and prioritisation of the large number of other functions as I may direct from time to time, schemes that are required in various locations. in accordance with the Act. No circulars or instructions have been issued National Lottery. within my Department concerning special 167. Mr. Murphy asked the Minister for Fin- advisers. Mr. Steadman is not part of the line ance the amount of revenue taken in sales by the management system of my Department. national lottery on lotto and lottery tickets in County Tipperary for the years 2003 to 2005. EU Cohesion Policy. [9752/05] 170. Mr. Quinn asked the Minister for Finance Minister for Finance (Mr. Cowen): It is not the if his attention has been drawn to the Dublin- policy of An Post National Lottery Company to Merseyside declaration which proposes to bring release sales figures for its games at a county or the Dublin Regional Authority and the Mersey- side region, with its Liverpool headquarters, other disaggregated level. However, for most closer together; the steps he will take to ensure general purposes, it is possible to statistically esti- that the two regions working in partnership can mate sales in any county by reference to pro- maximise their entitlement to financial, adminis- portional population in that county. Total trative and political support within European national lottery ticket sales in 2003 were \559 regional policy; the operational programmes to million, and in 2004 were \578 million. which joint applications can be made by both authorities within the context of EU cohesion Flood Relief. policy 2007-13; the sections of his Department 168. Mr. N. O’Keeffe asked the Minister for which are responsible for monitoring these devel- Finance when payment of moneys will be issued opments; the relations they have with the Dublin to business people (details supplied) in County Regional Authority; and if he will make a state- Cork whose premises were damaged by flood ment on the matter. [9648/05] 1845 Questions— 23 March 2005. Written Answers 1846

Minister for Finance (Mr. Cowen): I am aware region in the context of the Dublin/Merseyside of the declaration of intent by the Dublin-Merse- declaration of intent will be taken into consider- yside regions regarding their desire to establish a ation in the framing of any future programming programme of mutually beneficial co-operation, proposals. and particularly in the context of European Union financing for structural actions during the Ministerial Responsibilities. 2007-2013 period. The Minister of State at the 171. Mr. Bruton asked the Minister for Fin- Department of Finance, Deputy Parlon, has ance if he is responsible for the performance of already met the Dublin Regional Authority to the functions of his Department in accordance discuss future EU regional development prog- with section 3 of the Public Service Management rammes and contact is ongoing. Act 1997. [9649/05] The Deputy should be aware that current European Commission proposals on future Minister for Finance (Mr. Cowen): All cohesion policy include provision for a general members of the Government are Ministers hav- regulation laying down a common set of rules for ing charge of a Department, and are responsible structural funds during the 2007-2103 period, and for the performance of functions that are assigned also a proposal for a completely new regulation to the Department, pursuant to the Ministers and allowing for the creation of a cross-border coop- Secretaries Acts 1924 to 1995. This is confirmed eration structure. My Department is representing in section 3 of the Public Service Management Ireland at these negotiations. Agreement on the Act 1997. As I said in a written reply to financial perspectives for the 2007-2013 period Parliamentary Question No. 184 on 9 March and the structural funds regulations is expected 2005, there is also a framework in place in my by June of this year. Department for the assignment of functions The proposals provide for three new structural under section 4 of the Public Service Manage- objectives. The first of these is a convergence ment Act 1997. objective that will be aimed at the less-developed regions and is expected to play a vital role in the Question No. 172 answered with Question new member states. The second proposal is for a No. 169. regional competitiveness and employment objec- tive that is intended to strengthen regional com- Communications Masts. petitiveness by anticipating economic and social 173. Mr. Noonan asked the Minister for change and supporting innovation. Communications, Marine and Natural Resources The third proposal is for a European territorial if her attention has been drawn to any health haz- co-operation objective that it is intended will ard presented by 3G mobile masts; if she has been focus on the levels of cross-border and trans- consulted by the Minister for Finance regarding national co-operation, and also for networks for the erection of such masts on Government owned co-operation and the exchange of experiences property; and if he will make a statement on the throughout the Union. In this case the EU Com- matter. [9319/05] mission will adopt the list of eligible cross-border regions and of transnational co-operation zones, 174. Ms O’Sullivan asked the Minister for and this will be published when the regulation is Communications, Marine and Natural Resources agreed. if her Department has carried out research or The whole of the European Union territory is acquired information regarding health risks eligible for financing of European co-operation attached to working in a building on which a 3G and exchange networks. It is intended that the mobile phone mast has been erected particularly programming will take account of specific terri- in the context of a decision to allow these masts torial characteristics including those of cities and on Government buildings; and if he will make a towns whose role in regional development will be statement on the matter. [9337/05] boosted with aid for urban regeneration drawing Minister for Communications, Marine and on the experience of the URBAN community Natural Resources (Mr. N. Dempsey): I propose initiative. It should be stressed, however, that the to take Questions Nos. 173 and 174 together. amount of funding proposed by the European The erection of masts on Government property Commission for the European territorial co-oper- is a matter for the Minister for Finance together ation objective is \13.2 billion and that this rep- with the public sector organisation which is the resents roughly 4% of the total amount of \336 direct owner of the property concerned. There is billion proposed for all structural actions during no scientific medical evidence that mobile tele- the 2007-2103 period. phone masts, which include 3G mobile phone My Department will continue to monitor the masts, are injurious to health. Over recent years, developments as they unfold in the area of future more than 25,000 peer-reviewed studies into poss- EU structural policy. However, until such time as ible health effects of non-ionising radiation, the the current proposals have been agreed, and the class of electromagnetic emissions associated with areas of eligibility defined, it will not be possible mobile phone technology, have been published. to make specific proposals in regard to any future No definite causal link has been proven between structural funds. The concerns of the Dublin the emissions and any adverse health effect. 1847 Questions— 23 March 2005. Written Answers 1848

[Mr. N. Dempsey.] authority which has recommended that the siting Notwithstanding the overwhelmingly clean bill of telecommunications masts should result in no of health given to these technologies compared to direct beam falling on school property. It may be other environmental risks which our society that some paper somewhere may have made such willingly accepts, many countries, including a recommendation and if the Deputy can identify Ireland, have adopted a precautionary approach any such work I shall have my experts study it of absence of proof of harm is not proof of and I will make a further statement. absence of harm. By consensus amongst many If any of the relevant international bodies to countries, guidelines are established for safe lev- which Ireland belongs were to make such a els of exposure to various kinds of electromag- recommendation, my Department would have to netic emissions. These guidelines are set at levels consider an appropriate response. However, to which are many times less than the experimental date, no such recommendation has been made. levels at which no adverse effects have been This is because, in the continuing opinion of all established. Ireland has adopted the guidelines the relevant international bodies, radiofrequency established by the International Commission on fields around such masts are not considered a Non-Ionising Radiation Protection, ICNIRP, and health risk. participates in the work of the international com- The siting of individual mobile phone masts is mittee on electromagnetic safety, which sets stan- a matter for the relevant planning authorities and dards in this area. my Department has no function in the matter. I All licensed telecommunications operators in acknowledge that real fears exist amongst certain Ireland are required by the terms of their licences parts of the community about the health impacts to observe the ICNIRP guidelines for limiting of these masts. I am sympathetic and understand- exposure of the public to electromagnetic emis- ing of these fears and the concerns that underpin sions from their facilities. The Commission for them. However, I must point out that I have no Communications Regulation, ComReg, the regu- scientific data which as yet supports the conten- lator, conducts audit measurements to verify tion that these masts damage human health. Our compliance with these limits. Ireland maintains policy is to abide by the internationally accepted continuous relevant activity to ensure that public scientific guidelines that specify maximum accept- authorities have access to the most up-to-date able levels of radiation. and relevant information in this area and steps have been taken to ensure that these masts The Deputy may be aware that the latest statis- operate within limits which respected inter- tics from the Commission for Communications national bodies have deemed to provide protec- Regulation, ComReg, indicate that the Irish tion for the public. The siting of individual mobile mobile penetration rate now stands at 94%. phone masts is a matter for the relevant planning authorities and my Department has no function Pension Provisions. in this matter. 176. Mr. Bruton asked the Minister for The Deputies should be aware that the latest Communications, Marine and Natural Resources statistics from the Commission for Communi- the reason for the delay by his Department in cations Regulation, ComReg, indicate that the completing its consideration of a case submitted Irish mobile penetration rate now stands at 94%. by a person (details supplied) in Dublin 5 regard- 175. Mr. Gormley asked the Minister for ing their pension; and if he will make a statement Communications, Marine and Natural Resources on the matter. [9558/05] his views on an anomaly in the planning and Minister for Communications, Marine and development regulations 2001, whereby mobile Natural Resources (Mr. N. Dempsey): An phone base stations may not be installed on edu- appeals process is underway regarding the issues cational facilities, child care facilities or hospitals raised by the pensioner concerned. Legal advice without planning permission, but may be installed has been sought from the Attorney General’s on public or commercial buildings directly adjac- office. Once the advice has been received, the ent to such facilities without any planning per- matter can be determined as quickly as possible. mission; if his attention has been drawn to the fact that this is inconsistent not only with the lat- 177. Mr. Bruton asked the Minister for est recommendations of the UK independent Communications, Marine and Natural Resources expert group on mobile phones, but with his own the reason for the delay in responding to a case advice to Da´il E´ ireann in 2004 (details supplied); submitted in respect of a person (details supplied) and if he will make a statement on the matter. in regard to pension entitlements; and if he will [9545/05] make a statement on the matter. [9559/05]

Minister for Communications, Marine and Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources (Mr. N. Dempsey): The draft- Natural Resources (Mr. N. Dempsey): My ing of planning and development regulations is a Department is currently examining the pension matter for the Minister for Environment, Heri- entitlements in this case and will contact the per- tage and Local Government. I am not aware of son shortly to confirm the position. I will advise any national or international health advisory the Deputy when a reply has issued. 1849 Questions— 23 March 2005. Written Answers 1850

Inland Fisheries. 181. Mr. Ring asked the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources 178. Mr. O’Shea asked the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources his views on whether it is a credible response on if he will amend the Control of Fishing for his part, to ask a person (details supplied) to Salmon Order 2005 to provide that a licence review a non-technical version of a QRA they holder, when applying for the annual licence, can have already passed as being adequate for the nominate another person to be authorised and requirements of his Department. [9608/05] named to operate that licence only in the absence Minister for Communications, Marine and of the licence holder due to their being required Natural Resources (Mr. N. Dempsey): I propose as a full-time carer; and if he will make a state- to take Questions Nos. 179 and 181 together. ment on the matter. [9560/05] I understand from Shell E&P Ireland Limited Minister of State at the Department of that the proposed non-technical summary of the Communications, Marine and Natural Resources quantified risk assessment, QRA, is intended to (Mr. Gallagher): The Control of Fishing for provide the general public with a self-explanatory Salmon Order 2005, SI No. 72 of 2005, which I layman’s understanding and interpretation. It will signed on 16 February last, authorises the issue not be subject to any assessment by me in the of commercial salmon fishing licences by regional context of Shell’s application for consent to install fisheries boards and prescribes the criteria under its onshore pipeline. which those licences may be issued. The pro- As I have already stated my Department is at visions of this order, which replaces the Control present considering an application for consent to of Fishing for Salmon Order 1980 and subsequent install the onshore pipeline. Both the QRA and amendments, implement, in as far as possible the Johnston report to which I have referred pre- from a legal perspective, the recommendations viously will form part of this process. In so far as made by a joint National Salmon Commission, there may be issues in the QRA that need further NSC-National Fisheries Management Executive, clarification, elaboration or even additional NFME, working group aimed at updating and material, Mr. Andrew Johnston and other inde- improving the qualifying criteria under which pendent consultants, will be providing the neces- licence applications would be prioritised and sary advice to my Department. assessed by the regional fisheries boards. In this On 21 February 2005, Shell reactivated its regard, the new order, which was endorsed by the application for consent to install and commission NSC following consultation with the stakeholders phase 3 — onshore pipeline and umbilical orig- whom they represent, reflects best practice in the inally submitted in June 2002. On 24 February context of the current management of a licens- 2005, my Department wrote to Shell requesting ing system. the clarification and elaboration of certain infor- The order provides that a licence holder, when mation and studies provided in the 2002 appli- applying for the annual licence, can nominate cation. Officials from my Department met Shell another person to be authorised and named to on Friday, 4 March 2005 to discuss these issues operate that licence only in the absence of the further. In the course of this meeting Shell licence holder due to illness or injury. This pro- advised that the company had appointed Shell vision was a specific recommendation of the joint Global Solutions to carry out a peer review on NSC-NFME working group and, as such, I have the QRA and any associated reports-studies sub- no proposals to amend the order further in this mitted to my Department by the then operator regard. Enterprise Energy Ireland Limited. Shell has When introducing the Control of Fishing for agreed to submit these reports to my Department Salmon Order 2005, I specifically requested that by early April of this year. It is my intention to the regional fisheries boards, in implementing the appoint a consultant, who is an expert in quant- revised licensing regime this year, should report ified risk assessment, to review these documents back to me on the operation of the system once and report to me on all aspects and especially that the 2005 salmon fishing season has finished. In of public safety. I intend to publish these reports this context, I intend to keep the Control of Fish- immediately when available. ing for Salmon Order under review and would be It is my intention to progress consideration of prepared to consider other amendments, aimed the application for consent to install the upstream at updating and improving the licensing system pipeline in an open, balanced and informed man- further, should they be recommended by the ner. My decision to publish the full suite of docu- regional fisheries boards and the NSC. ments mentioned above, prior to my making a decision, will, hopefully, allay local fears in regard Offshore Exploration. to the safety of the pipeline and the process being adopted. 179. Mr. Ring asked the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources 180. Mr. Ring asked the Minister for his views on whether a person (details supplied) Communications, Marine and Natural Resources would contradict their earlier opinion and so if he will seek permission from a company (details expose their work to the charge of negligence. supplied) to publish the original QRA, in order [9601/05] that a proper comparison can be made between 1851 Questions— 23 March 2005. Written Answers 1852

[Mr. Ring .] only when in possession of a valid salmon fishing the original as presented to him and the non-tech- licence issued by a regional fisheries board. nical version. [9607/05] Under the Fisheries (Consolidation) Act 1959, as amended by the Fisheries Act 1980, it is a Minister for Communications, Marine and matter for the courts to decide if a person con- Natural Resources (Mr. N. Dempsey): As the victed of fishing offences should be disqualified Deputy is no doubt aware from my reply to him from holding a salmon fishing licence. on 10 March, Shell E&P Ireland Limited appointed Shell Global Solutions to carry out a Retail Sector Developments. peer review on the QRA and any associated 184. Mr. Bruton asked the Minister for reports-studies submitted to my Department by Communications, Marine and Natural Resources the then operator Enterprise Energy Ireland the tender procedures which were used for the Limited, EEI, in connection with its application disposal of retail shops by the ESB to ensure that for consent to construct a pipeline in 2001. Shell maximum value was obtained for the public from has agreed to submit these reports to my Depart- the disposal of these assets; and his involvement ment by early April of this year. It is my intention in this decision. [9749/05] to appoint a consultant who is an expert QRA to review these documents and report to me on all Minister for Communications, Marine and aspects. I intend to publish these reports immedi- Natural Resources (Mr. N. Dempsey): The dis- ately when available. posal of retail shops is a matter for the board of the ESB in the first instance. However, the ESB Question No. 181 answered with Question informed me of the outline of the proposed trans- No. 179. action shortly before the meeting on 16 March 2005 at which the board approved, in principle, Harbours and Piers. the sale to Bank of Scotland (Ireland) Limited, BOSI, of its retail outlets. The full details of the 182. Mr. N. O’Keeffe asked the Minister for proposal are currently under negotiation so, Communications, Marine and Natural Resources therefore, I am limited in what I can say pending the position regarding the provision of the neces- conclusion of that process and taking account of sary funding to a local authority to complete confidentiality agreements between the ESB and urgent refurbishment works at a location (details BOSI. supplied) in County Cork; and if his attention has I understand from the ESB that, although a been drawn to the fact that this matter has been tender procedure was not a feature of the pro- ongoing for a considerable period of time. posed transaction, the company is satisfied that it [9664/05] is complying with the requirements of the code of Minister of State at the Department of practice for the governance of State bodies. The Communications, Marine and Natural Resources ESB has also informed me that negotiations have (Mr. Gallagher): Knockadoon pier is owned by yet to take place on individual and portfolio val- Cork County Council and responsibility for its uations. The board of the ESB approved the pro- repair and maintenance rests with the local auth- posed methodology to develop a price and this ority in the first instance. will be subject to final board approval before the In July 2003 Cork County Council made an asset disposal. The ESB has also informed me application to the Department for funding to that before the final legal documentation is com- carry out works at Knockadoon slipway at an esti- pleted and the final price package for the deal is mated cost of \94,500. There was no funding agreed, each of the retail shops will be indepen- available in 2003 or 2004 for these works. The dently valued for ESB by a leading nationwide question of providing funding in the 2005-2006 valuer and the separate valuations prepared will period will depend on the amount of funding form the basis from which the ESB will work in available for works at fishery harbours generally pricing the retail units within the deal package. In and overall national priorities. this way, the ESB proposes to maximise the value from the disposal of its retail units. Fishing Licences. Fishing Licences. 183. Mr. O’Shea asked the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources 185. Mr. O’Shea asked the Minister for if it is intended to penalise persons found guilty Communications, Marine and Natural Resources by the courts in the matter of fishing offences in if his attention has been drawn to the statement regard to the renewal of commercial drift net of the chairman of Stop Salmon Drift Nets Now salmon licences; and if he will make a statement that a fair and detailed exit scheme that many of on the matter. [9669/05] the drift net salmon fishermen have worked out would cost only a fraction of the \80 million Minister of State at the Department of presented by the Minister as being the cost of a Communications, Marine and Natural Resources buy out of commercial drift net salmon fishing (Mr. Gallagher): Under the Fisheries Acts, any licences and that the angling and tourism sectors person fishing for salmon is permitted to do so stand ready to participate in financing such a 1853 Questions— 23 March 2005. Written Answers 1854 scheme in conjunction with the State (details Communications, Marine and Natural Resources supplied); and if he will make a statement on the if his attention has been drawn to the urgent need matter. [9750/05] for substantial coastal protection work in County Waterford (details supplied); if he will seek a sup- Minister of State at the Department of plementary estimate in 2005; and if he will make Communications, Marine and Natural Resources a statement on the matter. [9751/05] (Mr. Gallagher): The Government has consist- ently ruled out buy-out as an effective means of Minister of State at the Department of achieving the restoration of salmon stocks and Communications, Marine and Natural Resources has instead, since 2002, promoted the application (Mr. Gallagher): Responsibility for coastal pro- of quotas on commercial fishing and bag limits tection rests with the property owner whether it on angling to achieve catch reductions as the best be a local authority or a private individual. In July instrument available to achieve this objective. 2002 the Department requested all coastal local Furthermore, no convincing case has been authorities to submit proposals, in order of advanced as to the public good that would be priority, for consideration in the context of the acquired by the State in the context of a publicly 2003-2006 national coastal protection prog- funded buy-out of commercial salmon licences. rammes. Waterford County Council submitted I have previously stated that I believe the cost proposals for coastal protection works at Cunni- of buying out commercial salmon drift net gar phase 2, estimated at \1 million and this was licences in Ireland could be as high as \75 million its number one priority. Ballyvoile phase 1 was to \80 million based on buy-out proposals which the county council’s number two priority with an were implemented in recent years in Northern estimated cost of \1.1 million. Its third priority Ireland and the north east of England, where the was Helvick, estimated at \0.5 million. Bunma- cost of buying out, not all, but up to 56 licence hon was its fourth priority, estimated at \0.5 mill- holders is understood to have cost some £3.25 ion. Clonea was fifth, estimated at \0.5 million million. and Ballyvoile phase 2 was sixth, with an esti- It is on this basis that I have assessed the cost mated cost of \0.93 million. of a similar voluntary buy-out scheme in Ireland, Exchequer funding of \270,824.32 had been particularly if such a scheme was to be taken up provided towards design and rock revetment at in full by the drift net operators, 887 licences. Cunnigar in 2000 to 2002. Waterford County This figure would increase substantially if all Council did not submit a proposal in respect of other commercial fishing nets were to be Tramore. However, the Department provided included. I am sure that the Deputy will agree funding of \1,171,927.51 to Waterford County that buy-out proposals on this scale are not prac- Council in the years 2000 to 2003 towards prom- tical and we need to caution against excessive enade refurbishment at Tramore. In 2004 \70,902 expectations about large amounts of com- was provided for emergency works and a diving pensation. survey at Helvick pier. While I am aware of reports in certain media The 2005 coastal protection programme is by or on behalf of the Stop Salmon Drift Nets under consideration at present and the question Now campaign, I can inform the Deputy that no of seeking a supplementary estimate does not individuals or organisations have made formal arise at this stage. offers to the Department to fund the cost of a buy-out scheme for drift netting licences. Further- Illegal Immigrants. more, I have not seen nor am I aware of any evi- 187. Mr. Perry asked the Minister for Foreign dence produced indicating that the cost of a buy- Affairs if his attention has been drawn to the fact out of commercial drift net salmon fishing that, on many occasions, undocumented Irish per- licences would be anything other than that which sons currently in the United states are not able to I have estimated based on other recent buy-out travel to Ireland to attend funerals for close schemes nor have I been made aware that there family members; the negotiations his Department are beneficiaries in a position to contribute the officials have had with President Bush and US necessary funding for such a scheme. Government officials to make changes in US As a result, and as I have previously and con- immigration laws to grant amnesty to allow sistently indicated to the House, I have no current undocumented immigrants to legalise their status; plans to introduce a buy-out of commercial when he will meet the Irish bishops to discuss this salmon fishing licences, but I intend to keep the situation; and if he will make a statement on the matter under review in the context of the policy matter. [9937/05] outlined above. In this regard, I would be open to any relevant proposals presented to me whereby 188. Mr. Deasy asked the Minister for Foreign stakeholders benefiting from any reduction in Affairs if he has raised the plight of Irish citizens commercial catch would identify themselves and who are illegally resident in the United States indicate a willingness to fund any compensation with US authorities; and if he will make a state- that might arise. ment on the matter. [9694/05] Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. D. Ahern): I Coastal Protection. propose to take Questions Nos. 187 and 188 186. Mr. O’Shea asked the Minister for together. 1855 Questions— 23 March 2005. Written Answers 1856

[Mr. D. Ahern.] a skateboarding project and this, like all appli- The circumstances of undocumented Irish cations received before the deadline, is currently people in the United States are raised on an on- being evaluated against the programme’s assess- going basis in our bilateral contacts with US pol- ment criteria, which are outlined in the guide- itical leaders. Most recently, the issue was raised lines, terms and conditions of the programme. I when the Taoiseach and I met President Bush on intend to announce the grant allocations for the St. Patrick’s Day. During our meeting, the Pres- programme as soon as possible after the assess- ident re-affirmed his commitment to work with ment process has been completed. Congress on immigration reform, now that a new Congress was in place. The Taoiseach and I very Swimming Pool Projects. much welcomed this commitment and empha- 190. Mr. McGuinness asked the Minister for sised the importance of addressing the situation Arts, Sport and Tourism the status of an appli- in a positive and sympathetic way. cation for funding in the name of Kilkenny Bor- I would also like to pay a warm tribute to the ough Council to provide a new swimming pool work of the Irish episcopal commission for emi- and sports complex; the cost of the project and grants for the advice and support it gives to our the maximum grant available; the way in which communities overseas. The Irish abroad unit of local authorities are expected to raise the balance; the Department maintains very close contact with the timeframe for a decision in the case; and if he the director of the commission and I am also in will make a statement on the matter. [9663/05] contact with its chairman, his Lordship, Bishop Se´amus Hegarty. Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism (Mr. The Deputies can be assured that the issues of O’Donoghue): Kilkenny County Council has our undocumented citizens and immigration applied for funding under the local authority reform have the highest priority for the Govern- swimming pool programme in respect of a pro- ment and, reflecting this, for the embassy in posed replacement swimming pool for Kilkenny. Washington and our four consulates general in I am pleased to say that I have today approved the United States. the preliminary report submitted by the council and this will allow it to prepare the contract docu- Sports Capital Programme. ments for the project. My Department has been advised that the cost 189. Mr. Bruton asked the Minister for Arts, of the project is estimated at just over \15 million. Sport and Tourism if his Department has conduc- The maximum grant available under the prog- ted any assessment of the capacity to develop ramme is \3.8 million. Grant aid is not formally skateboarding as a recreational outlet in Dublin allocated until the tender has been approved for city and other urban centres; and if he will make a project. a statement on the matter. [9598/05] It is a matter for local authorities to devise Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism (Mr. funding arrangements, as they see fit, to com- O’Donoghue): An assessment of the type pro- plement the grant element. Approval for projects posed by the Deputy would be more appropri- in 2005 will depend on a range of factors, includ- ately carried out by the local authorities con- ing funding available in the Department’s sub- cerned. My colleague, the Minister for the head for the local authority swimming pool prog- Environment, Heritage and Local Government, ramme, the availability of project financing in the Deputy Roche, recently announced a funding local authority and compliance with technical and scheme for skateboarding. I am not aware of the procedural requirements at each of the various problems of the particular skateboarding park to stages of the process. which the Deputy refers. My Department administers the national lot- Health and Safety Regulations. tery-funded sports capital programme, which 191. Mr. Stanton asked the Minister for allocates funding to sporting, voluntary and com- Enterprise, Trade and Employment if he has munity organisations, schools and local auth- satisfied himself that consumers are not at risk orities. The programme is advertised on an from air fresheners for sale in the State which annual basis. may contain substances that irritate the respirat- Applications for skateboarding projects are of ory tract or cause cancer; if he has further satis- course acceptable under the programme, pro- fied himself that air fresheners have undergone vided that they otherwise meet its terms and con- toxicology testing before they are put on the ditions. One such application, from Dublin City market, that advertising and marketing of such Council for the provision of a skateboarding products are regulated and that they do not carry park, was received under the 2004 sports capital misleading messages such as that they purify the programme and was successful, receiving a pro- air or are a natural product; and if he will make visional allocation of \100,000. a statement on the matter. [9634/05] Applications for funding under the 2005 prog- ramme were invited through advertisements in Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- the newspapers on 5 and 6 December last. The ment (Mr. Martin): The European Communities closing date for receipt of applications was 4 (General Product Safety) Regulations 2004 place February 2005. One application was received for a requirement on producers and distributors to 1857 Questions— 23 March 2005. Written Answers 1858 ensure that the products they place on the market of the Consumer Information Act 1978 prohibit do not pose a hazard to consumers. Enforcement the use of misleading advertising in relation, inter of these regulations is the responsibility of the alia, to goods which would result in injury or Director of Consumer Affairs. The director is damage to consumers. given authority to ensure that products placed on the market are safe and that producers and dis- Ministerial Staff. tributors of such products comply with their obli- 192. Mr. Hogan asked the Minister for gations under these regulations and the directive. Enterprise, Trade and Employment if the special I am informed that the director is not aware of advisers attached to his Department are part of any risk to consumers from air fresheners on sale the line management system of his Depart- in the State. ment. [9635/05] The principal legislative provisions covering Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- warning labels on dangerous substance and prep- ment (Mr. Martin): The posts of special adviser, aration products are set out in the European policy adviser and press adviser are not part of Communities (Classification, Packaging, Label- the line management structure of the ling and Notification of Dangerous Substances) Department. Regulations 2003, SI No. 116 of 2003 and Euro- pean Communities (Classification, Packaging and 193. Mr. Hogan asked the Minister for Labelling of Dangerous Preparations) Regu- Enterprise, Trade and Employment the roles and lations 2004, SI No. 62 of 2004. functions carried out by special advisers attached The principal legislative provisions covering to his Department; if circulars or instructions the marketing and use of dangerous substances have been issued within his Department concern- and preparations are set out in the European ing special advisers; if so, if he will provide a copy Communities (Dangerous Substances and of any such circular; and if he will make a state- Preparations) (Marketing and Use) Regulations ment on the matter. [9636/05] 2003, SI No. 220 of 2003, the European Com- Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- munities (Dangerous Substances and ment (Mr. Martin): The special adviser, Mr. Preparations) (Marketing and Use) Christopher Mannion; policy adviser, Ms Deirdre (Amendment) Regulations 2003, SI No. 503 of Gillane; and press adviser, Ms Caitriona Meehan, 2003, and the European Communities employed at the Department of Enterprise, (Dangerous Substances and Preparations) Trade and Employment are involved in the pro- (Marketing and Use) (Amendment) Regulations vision of advice and assistance to me as Minister. 2004, SI No. 852 of 2004. These regulations, The Department did not issue a formal office enforced by the Health and Safety Authority, notice concerning special advisers. My private transpose into Irish law and implement the latest secretary issued an e-mail to staff in the Depart- EU directives in the dangerous substances and ment on 21 October 2004, which outlined the div- preparations area. ision of responsibilities of the relevant advisers, Implementation of the regulations governing the details of which are outlined in the following the labelling and use of dangerous substances is table. The e-mail of 21 October 2004 also designed to alert users, in the most effective man- requested that when departmental staff are pre- ner, as to the potential dangers associated with paring speeches and briefing material for the such products and to heighten the general level Minister, they should ensure a copy of the rel- of awareness of the public in their use of sub- evant material is also provided to the relevant stances of this nature. In addition, the provisions adviser and the press office.

Christopher Mannion Deirdre Gillane Caitriona Meehan

Enterprise & Agencies Division Science Technology & Intellectual Property; All Ministerial & Department Press (except overseas enterprise); Labour Competitiveness & International Affairs; Relations Force Development Division (except Employment Rights & Industrial Relations Work Permits); Corporate (except HSA Liaison); Commerce, Consumers Services & Economic Policy; and Competition; Overseas Enterprise; Work Health & Safety Authority Liaison; Permits. Finance; Audits.

Departmental Investigations. if he will report on the findings, conclusions and recommendations of same. [9637/05] 194. Mr. J. Higgins asked the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment if he will Minister of State at the Department of make a statement on the investigation which he Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Mr. instigated into a company (details supplied) fol- Killeen): In response to allegations made by the lowing allegations made in Da´il E´ ireann on 8 Deputy in the House the Minister for Enterprise, February 2005 by this Deputy regarding the com- Trade and Employment immediately directed the pany’s employment procedures; if the labour labour inspectorate of his Department to carry inspectorate has furnished him with a report; and out an investigation. That investigation com- menced the following day. The investigation has 1859 Questions— 23 March 2005. Written Answers 1860

[Mr. Killeen.] claims must be made by deciding officers and necessitated the gathering of information from a appeals officers. These officers are statutorily variety of sources and the interviewing of many appointed and I have no role in such decisions. parties. In advance of consideration of the report by the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Ministerial Staff. Employment, the Department has sought the 197. Mr. Stanton asked the Minister for Social advice of the Attorney General’s office on its and Family Affairs the roles and functions carried content and the process to be adopted regarding out by special advisers attached to his Depart- the parties identified therein. The report has been ment; if circulars or instructions have been issued sent to the parties identified in it and it is within his Department concerning special intended to include their observations in the final advisers; if so, if he will provide a copy of any report. One party has requested additional time such circular; and if he will make a statement on to consider the report and, on the advice of the the matter. [9630/05] Attorney General’s office, it has been agreed to grant an extension for the receipt of their obser- 198. Mr. Stanton asked the Minister for Social vations until Wednesday, 30 March 2005. The and Family Affairs if the special advisers attached report will then be completed and given to the to his Department are part of the line manage- Minister. ment system of his Department; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [9631/05] Work Permits. Minister for Social and Family Affairs (Mr. 195. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Brennan): I propose to take Questions Nos. 197 Enterprise, Trade and Employment if a person and 198 together. (details supplied) in County Kildare will have The roles and functions carried out by the their work permit renewed; and if he will make a special advisers attached to my Department are statement on the matter. [9725/05] as set out in section 11 of the Public Service Man- Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- agement Act 1997, that is, to assist the Minister ment (Mr. Martin): A work permit issued in by providing advice, by monitoring, facilitating respect of the above named individual on 25 May and securing the achievement of Government 2002 and expired on 26 May 2003. A work permit objectives that relate to my Department and by application was received in respect of this individ- performing such other functions as may be ual on 12 February 2004 from an employer. The directed by the Minister. Special advisers are not work permits section of my Department wrote to part of the line management system of my this employer on two occasions requesting Department. They are accountable directly to the additional information. This application was sub- Minister in the performance of their functions. sequently cancelled by the section, as the No circulars or instructions concerning special employer failed to reply to this correspondence. advisers have issued within my Department. A second application was received from this employer in respect of this individual on 24 Sep- Social Welfare Code. tember 2004. The work permits section again 199. Mr. Gregory asked the Minister for Social wrote to the employer requesting additional and Family Affairs the categories of workers in information. As no response was received to this the public service who pay an A stamp while tem- further correspondence, the section subsequently porary or on probation and who, when promoted cancelled this application. or made permanent, lose the stamp; the reason for this; the loss of entitlements involved; if this Social Welfare Benefits. will be reviewed; and if he will make a statement 196. Mr. Ring asked the Minister for Social on the matter. [9632/05] and Family Affairs the reason a person (details Minister for Social and Family Affairs (Mr. supplied) in County Mayo was refused the carer’s Brennan): People who enter public sector allowance; and if an appeal will be opened on employment with effect from 6 April 1995 are their behalf. [9625/05] insured at the full class A rate of PRSI, which Minister for Social and Family Affairs (Mr. covers all benefits and pensions. Where a person Brennan): The person concerned applied for car- is employed on 5 April 1995 in the public sector er’s allowance on 12 January 2005. The principal in a capacity which is not permanent and pension- conditions for receipt of the allowance are that able and, subsequently, ceases to be so employed, full-time care and attention is required and being but immediately upon such cessation, becomes provided and that the means test that applies is employed in a permanent and pensionable capa- satisfied. Her application was refused on the city as a civil or public servant, that person grounds that full-time care and attention, as pre- becomes a modified contributor. However, class scribed in regulations, was not required in this A contributions paid by that person prior to the case. She was notified of the decision, the reason date of becoming permanent and pensionable for it and of her right to appeal on 10 March 2005. stand. The regulations covering the payment of To date, no appeal has been lodged in this case. modified insurance in these circumstances — SI Under social welfare legislation decisions on 312 of 1996 — were introduced to allow 1861 Questions— 23 March 2005. Written Answers 1862 employees working in the civil and public service family allowance has been terminated in the case on 5 April 1995 the opportunity to avail of the of a person (details supplied) in County Kildare; same benefits as existing staff. and if he will make a statement on the matter. People insured at this modified rate are [9724/05] covered for widow’s or widower’s contributory pension, orphan’s contributory allowance, Minister for Social and Family Affairs (Mr. deserted wife’s benefit and occupational injuries Brennan): The person concerned was interviewed benefits. Persons on the modified rate of by a local officer of my Department on 7 March insurance are not entitled to short-term benefit, 2005. In the local officer’s presence, she signed a including unemployment benefit and disability statement admitting to cohabiting since April benefit. However, the terms of employment of 2004 and surrendered her lone parent’s allowance those becoming permanent and pensionable civil book to the officer. On foot of this statement, her servants provide for payments during illness. payment was subsequently suspended and her They are also covered by superannuation case has been forwarded to a deciding officer for schemes in operation in the civil and public ser- formal decision. She will be contacted about this vice. While all aspects of my Department’s busi- shortly. Under social welfare legislation, decisions ness are kept under review, there are no plans to on claims must be made by deciding officers and change these arrangements. appeals officers. These officers are statutorily appointed and I have no role in such decisions. Ministerial Responsibilities. 200. Mr. Stanton asked the Minister for Social Pension Provisions. and Family Affairs if he is responsible for the per- 202. Mr. Bruton asked the Minister for Trans- formance of the functions of his Department in port if his attention has been drawn to the deficit accordance with section 3 of the Public Service in the pension coverage of retired aviation staff; Management Act 1997; and if he will make a the Government’s position in relation to any flo- statement on the matter. [9701/05] tation of this company; and if proceeds from such Minister for Social and Family Affairs (Mr. a flotation could be in part contributed to make Brennan): Under section 3 of the Public Service up the pension deficit. [9599/05] Management Act, 1997, a Minister having charge 206. Mr. Bruton asked the Minister for Trans- of a Department shall, in accordance with the port if he has had recent meetings with the retired Ministers and Secretaries Acts, 1924 to 1995, be aviation staff regarding deficits in their pension responsible for the performance of functions that arrangements; if he has proposals on how this are assigned to the Department pursuant to any issue might be addressed; and if he will make a of those Acts. Accordingly, I am responsible for statement on the matter. [9600/05] the performance of functions assigned to my Department pursuant to those Acts. Section 4(1) Minister for Transport (Mr. Cullen): I propose to take Questions Nos. 202 and 206 together. of the Public Service Management Act states “ex- cept as otherwise directed by the Government or The pension scheme in question, the Irish air- provided by or under any other Act, the Sec- lines (general employees) superannuation retary General of a Department or Head of a scheme, is a multi-employer scheme which, in addition to Aer Lingus and DAA staff, also Scheduled Office, as the case may be, shall, sub- includes a private sector company, SR Technics, ject to the determination of matters of policy by formerly FLS Aerospace. I am advised that a full the Minister of the Government having charge of actuarial assessment of this pension fund is car- the Department or Scheduled Office or by the ried out every three years and a review of the Government, have the authority, responsibility fund’s ability to pay increases in line with and accountability” for carrying out specified inflation is carried out annually. duties in respect of the Department or scheduled The last actuarial valuation was carried out in office. Among these duties are the following March 2003 and at that time the scheme satisfied specified in section 4(1)(a): “Managing the the minimum funding standard included in the Department or Scheduled Office, implementing Pension Act 1990. The next full actuarial valua- Government policies appropriate to the Depart- tion was due in March 2006 but the trustee ment or Scheduled Office, monitoring Govern- decided to bring this forward to end March 2005. ment policies that affect the Department or The report is expected to be finalised in the com- Scheduled Office and delivering outputs as deter- ing months. In the interim, the trustee has used mined with the Minister of the Government hav- its discretion, on the advice of the scheme’s actu- ing charge of the Department or Scheduled ary, to grant pension increases in line with the Office.” CPI again this year. Pensioners will be formally advised of this in April in the normal way. Social Welfare Benefits. While the payment of pensions is always 201. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Social dependent on the actuarial position of the and Family Affairs the reason the one parent scheme, the advice is that the scheme is able to 1863 Questions— 23 March 2005. Written Answers 1864

[Mr. Cullen.] libraries; and if he will make a statement on the continue to pay the current level of pensions to matter. [9623/05] existing pensioners. However, the question of Minister for Transport (Mr. Cullen): The traffic whether such pensions can continue to be signs manual 1996 sets out directions given to increased in line with inflation depends on the road authorities by the Minister for Transport performance of the scheme going forward. Such pursuant to section 95(16) of the Road Traffic increases are and always have been discretionary. Act 1961 regarding the provision and use of warn- The pension entitlements for employees of ing and information traffic signs. A copy of the commercial State bodies including Aer Lingus manual is available in the Oireachtas Library, and and the Dublin Airport Authority, formerly Aer copies have been made available to city councils Rianta, are matters primarily for the trustee, the and county councils, who also have responsibility members of the relevant scheme and the compan- for public libraries. ies involved. The State has no involvement in the Chapter 8 of the manual sets out advice on the funding of these schemes. If a deficit arose, the signs to be deployed at road works. Responsi- rules of the pension scheme provide that the bility for the provision, positioning, maintenance trustee must decide what action to take but the and monitoring of such traffic signs at road works rules also indicate that there is no obligation on locations on non-national roads is a matter for the part of either employers or members to the individual road authority and in the case of increase contributions. I assume the trustee, national roads, the National Roads Authority. employers and staff would work together in those My Department is currently pursuing a com- circumstances to try and agree a mutually satis- prehensive review of the present traffic signs factory outcome. manual in association with the National Roads Numerous meetings have taken place between Authority and the Department of the Envir- RASA representatives and the companies and onment, Heritage and Local Government. Con- also with previous Ministers and officials from my sultants have been engaged to prepare a new Department and the Departments of the manual. It is intended that the use of the manual Taoiseach and Finance to discuss the pension by road authorities will ensure a high quality of scheme. I met representatives of the group on 19 signposting in the State through uniformity of January. Despite detailed examination, there has practice and the creation of a consistent approach been no obvious solution to the RASA concerns. to signing, including at road works. However, I indicated at that meeting that I would keep the matter under review with the compan- Road Traffic Offences. ies concerned. 204. Mr. Ring asked the Minister for Transport With regard to the possible flotation of Aer if an express consent was given to the Medical Lingus, I briefed my colleagues at Cabinet yester- Bureau of Road Safety, pursuant to section 38(4) day in relation to the current status of my deliber- of the Road Traffic Act 1968, for the supply by ations on a number of key aviation issues, includ- same of an apparatus for indicating the presence ing the future of Aer Lingus. I am anxious, in the of alcohol in the breath as opposed to the consent interests of the airline, to move forward on this prescribing the form of statements produced by as a matter of urgency and I will bring specific the apparatus which was given to the Minister of proposals to Government shortly. State. [9624/05] With regard to the suggestion that proceeds from a flotation of the airline could be in part Minister for Transport (Mr. Cullen): Section contributed to make up a potential pension defi- 38(4) of the Road Traffic Act 1968, as amended cit, the Aer Lingus Act 2004 provides that funds by the Road Traffic Act 1994, provides that the received in respect of the sale shall be paid into Medical Bureau of Road Safety may, with the or disposed of for the benefit of the Exchequer. consent of the Minister, arrange for the supply Moreover, the question of an injection of State and testing of apparatus for indicating the pres- funds does not arise. Such a proposal would run ence of alcohol in the breath and apparatus for determining the concentration of alcohol in the counter to established policy in this area and breath. would, in any event, be challenged by the Euro- pean Commission as a state aid. The prescribed form of the statement produced by an apparatus to which the Deputy is referring Road Signage. relates to the statement produced by an appar- atus for determining the concentration of alcohol 203. Mr. Deasy asked the Minister for Trans- in the breath, that is, evidential breath-testing port the regulations which are in place to ensure instruments. The Road Traffic Act 1994 provided proper control of traffic signs while road works for the introduction of a scheme of evidential are being carried out by contractors; the persons breath testing, EBT, based on the use of appar- who monitor roadwork traffic signs; if he will atus for determining the concentration of alcohol make the traffic signs manual available to public in a sample of breath. The Act provides that driv- 1865 Questions— 23 March 2005. Written Answers 1866 ers may be required to undergo a breath test in Question No. 206 answered with Question a Garda station instead of a blood or urine test No. 202. following arrest for drink driving. The evidential breath-testing system was intro- Public Transport. duced with effect from November 1999. That 207. Mr. Stanton asked the Minister for Trans- reflected a commitment given in the Govern- port his views on whether the cost of public trans- ment’s Road Safety Strategy 1998-2002. Regu- port is overpriced, is acting as a disincentive to lations to prescribe the form of the statements persons using public transport and thereby reduc- produced by the apparatus were made by the ing the use of private cars; and if he will make a then Minister of State at the Department of the statement on the matter. [9652/05] Environment and Local Government on 20 October 1999. The system was formally launched Minister for Transport (Mr. Cullen): The pri- by the then Minister of State on 24 November mary focus of investment in public transport 1999. under the national development plan is to expand In addition, the Minister provides for the deter- the capacity of the network to respond to the mination of the funding allocation to the bureau. demand for such services. Fares on public trans- Such funding includes approval to provide for the port have decreased significantly in real terms in supply and testing of the relevant apparatus as recent years, and there is no evidence to suggest required. that current fare levels are a deterrent to the increased use of public transport. It remains my Railway Stations. view that resources are more effectively focused on increasing public transport capacity to meet 205. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Trans- the latent demand for such services and on port the maximum current capacity in terms of improving punctuality and reliability of such daily passenger throughput of each of the com- services. muter rail stations in County Kildare; if he can identify the means whereby daily use can be Rail Services. increased with particular reference to parking 208. Mr. Penrose asked the Minister for Trans- facilities, increased frequency, extra carriages; ´ and if he will make a statement on the matter. port if Iarnro´ dEireann has carried out a feasi- [9581/05] bility study regarding the reopening of the rail- way line between Mullingar, Moate and Athlone; Minister for Transport (Mr. Cullen): The if, in view of the fact that two of these are scheduling and timetabling of trains is a day-to- important gateway towns under the national spa- day operational matter for Iarnro´ dE´ ireann to tial plan, steps will be taken immediately to have consider. the reopening of this line progressed; and if he On the basis of projected demand, Iarnro´ d will make a statement on the matter. [9653/05] ´ Eireann has submitted a greater Dublin inte- Minister for Transport (Mr. Cullen): I under- grated rail network plan, which proposes the stand that Iarnro´ dE´ ireann has not carried out a enhancement of all suburban and outer suburban feasibility study regarding the reopening of the services into Dublin. The proposals are being rail line between Mullingar, Moate and Athlone. examined by my Department, at present, in the The strategic rail review, commissioned by my context of the ten-year investment framework Department and published in 2002, found that for transport. the Mullingar to Athlone line did not perform In the meantime, I understand from the com- well economically when assessed as a “stand- pany that some of the 36 new diesel railcars due alone” project but could offer significant benefits to come into service at the end of this year will in terms of operational flexibility in the rail net- be allocated to the Kildare route to extend all work as a whole in the future. trains to eight-car length. That will improve the I am also aware that the national spatial capacity on individual trains by up to 33%. That strategy highlights the importance of enhancing capacity increase comes on top of a capacity the critical mass in the midlands region, by com- increase of almost 160% delivered on that line in bining the complementary strengths of Athlone, the last 18 months. Mullingar and Tullamore as a gateway at the Regarding the Maynooth-Connolly line, I heart of the midland region, and states that it is understand that, in the short term, Iarnro´ d important to build on the central location of the E´ ireann plans to replace the majority of the 36 midlands and the key towns at the intersection of diesel railcars on the Sligo-Maynooth Dublin line national road and rail routes. to increase capacity and to remove older rolling Another factor which would have to be con- stock from service. The effect will be to increase sidered is the likely scale and pace of develop- all commuter trains on the line to eight-car ment of the midlands gateways and along the rail length, giving an immediate capacity increase, on corridor in question. The greater the critical mass some services, of 33%. of population and economic activity, the more 1867 Questions— 23 March 2005. Written Answers 1868

[Mr. Cullen.] Waterways Ireland advises me that it will liaise likely a sustainable case can be made for rail with the person concerned on whatever occasion investment. I have already made it clear to local it intends to pipe water from the drain adjacent authorities in other parts of the country that it to this person’s farm and will endeavour to agree is for them to develop and implement land use an acceptable protocol with him. strategies which would support the case for rail U´ dara´s na Gaeltachta. investment. The best practical demonstration to 210. D’fhiafraigh Aengus O´ Snodaigh den date of such an approach is the development of Aire Gno´ thaı´ Pobail, Tuaithe agus Gaeltachta the Midleton rail corridor. cad iad na tograı´ i gceantar Bhaile Ghib a While there are no immediate plans to reopen mhaoinigh U´ dara´s na Gaeltachta gach bliain le ´ this line, Iarnro´ dEireann will keep the issue deich mbliana anuas agus cad e´ an me´id a bhı´ i under review having regard to the matters to gceist. [9616/05] which I have already referred. 211. D’fhiafraigh Aengus O´ Snodaigh den Aire Gno´ thaı´ Pobail, Tuaithe agus Gaeltachta Inland Waterways. cad iad na tograı´ i gceantar Ra´th Cairn a 209. Mr. Penrose asked the Minister for Com- mhaoinigh U´ dara´s na Gaeltachta gach bliain le munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs if he will deich mbliana anuas agus cad e´ an me´id a bhı´ i take steps to ensure that a person (details gceist. [9617/05] supplied) in County Westmeath is notified by Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Waterways Ireland when it is piping water from Affairs (E´ amon O´ Cuı´v): To´ gfaidh me´ a drain adjacent to this person’s farm; if, in view Ceisteanna Uimh. 210 agus 211 le che´ile. of the importance of water for this person’s cattle, Dı´rı´m aird an Teachta ar thuarasca´lacha there will at all times be adequate water left in bliantu´ la agus cuntais U´ dara´s na Gaeltachta 1995 the river; and if he will make a statement on the go dtı´ 2003, a leagadh os comhair Thithe an matter. [9651/05] Oireachtais agus a bhfuil co´ ipeanna dı´obh ar fa´il i Leabharlann an Oireachtais. Ta´ an t-eolas ata´ a´ Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht lorg ag an Teachta maidir le maoiniu´ tograı´ i Affairs (E´ amon O´ Cuı´v): Waterways Ireland is mBaile Ghib agus Ra´th Cairn ar fa´il sna a North-South implementation body, established tuarasca´lacha sin. under the British-Irish Agreement Act 1999, co- Maidir le 2004, nach bhfuil tuarasca´il bhliantu´ il sponsored by my Department and the Depart- 2004 foilsithe ina leith go fo´ ill, ta´ na sonraı´ cuı´ ment of Culture, Arts and Leisure in the North. don bhliain sin leagtha amach sa ta´bla leis seo.

Tograı´ i gContae na Mı´ a fuair maoiniu´ o´ U´ dara´s na Gaeltachta i 2004

Ceantar Togra \

Baile Ghib Comhlacht Forbartha Bhaile Ghib 2,500 Ra´th Cairn Turmec Teoranta 450,559 Ra´th Cairn Bia Faughan Teoranta 150,000 Ra´th Cairn Comharchumann Ra´th Cairn Teoranta 21,574 Ra´th Cairn Gaelora Teoranta 23,401

cad iad na bo´ ithre i gceantar Ghaeltacht Ra´th 212. D’fhiafraigh Aengus O´ Snodaigh den Cairn a bhfuil se´ i gceist ag an Roinn airgead a Aire Gno´ thaı´ Pobail, Tuaithe agus Gaeltachta chaitheamh orthu no´ airgead a thabhairt o´ n cad iad na bo´ ithre i gceantar Ghaeltacht Ra´th ´ Cairn ar chaith a Roinn airgead orthu no´ ar thug Roinn d’Udara´s na Gaeltachta le caitheamh an Roinn airgead d’U´ dara´s na Gaeltachta le orthu, lena ndeisiu´ no´ lena n-ato´ gaint, i mbliana caitheamh ar iad a dheisiu´ no´ a ato´ gaint le deich agus cad e´ an me´id ata´ i gceist. [9620/05] mbliana anuas agus cad e´ an me´id a bhı´ i 215. D’fhiafraigh Aengus O´ Snodaigh den gceist. [9618/05] Aire Gno´ thaı´ Pobail, Tuaithe agus Gaeltachta 213. D’fhiafraigh Aengus O´ Snodaigh den cad iad na bo´ ithre i gceantar Ghaeltacht Bhaile Aire Gno´ thaı´ Pobail, Tuaithe agus Gaeltachta Ghib a bhfuil se´ i gceist ag an Roinn airgead a cad iad na bo´ ithre i gceantar Ghaeltacht Bhaile chaitheamh orthu no´ airgead a thabhairt o´ n Ghib ar chaith a Roinn airgead orthu no´ ar thug Roinn d’U´ dara´s na Gaeltachta le caitheamh an Roinn airgead d’U´ dara´s na Gaeltachta le orthu, lena ndeisiu´ no´ lena n-ato´ gaint, i mbliana caitheamh ar iad a dheisiu´ no´ a ato´ gaint, le deich agus cad e´ an me´id ata´ i gceist. [9621/05] bliana anuas agus cad e´ an me´id a bhı´ i gceist. [9619/05] Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs (E´ amon O´ Cuı´v): To´ gfaidh me´ 214. D’fhiafraigh Aengus O´ Snodaigh den Ceisteanna Uimh. 212, 213, 214 agus 215 le che´ile. Aire Gno´ thaı´ Pobail, Tuaithe agus Gaeltachta 1869 Questions— 23 March 2005. Written Answers 1870

Ta´ an cla´r oibre le haghaidh bo´ ithre sa e´agsu´ la Gaeltachta. Nı´ chuireann mo Roinn Ghaeltacht don bhliain 2005-06 a´ ullmhu´ ag mo airgead ar fa´il d’U´ dara´s na Gaeltachta chun Roinn faoi la´thair. Ta´ socru´ i bhfeidhm le fada bo´ ithre a fhorbairt sa ghna´th-bhealach. idir mo Roinn agus na hu´ dara´is a´itiu´ la a bhfuil Ta´ an t-eolas ata´ iarrtha ag an Teachta maidir ceantair Ghaeltachta faoina gcu´ ram go le deontais a ceadaı´odh le deich mbliana anuas sa nde´anfaidh siad na hoibreacha seo sna ceantair ta´bla leis seo.

Bo´ ithre a ceadaı´odh i mBaile Ghib agus Ra´th Cairn, Contae na Mı´, 1995 go dtı´ 2004. Bo´ ithre stra´te´iseacha

Bliain Bealach Tu´ s Crı´och Oibreacha Deontas \

2004 Ra´th Cairn S.N. Ra´th Cairn S.N. Ra´th Cairn An crosaire ag S.N. Ra´th 150,000 Chairn a fheabhsu´ de re´ir an dearadh nua a dheineadh i 2003. 4 cinn de bhoilginı´ bo´ thair a tho´ ga´il, mar is ga´,arnabo´ ithre chun na scoile

2003 Ra´th Cairn Deireadh an chosa´in An Mhea´nscoil Ceannach Talu´ n. Cosa´n le 70,000 reatha to´ ga´il. Duchta´il i gcomhair soilse poiblı´ le chur ar fail. Dha´ duchta spa´ra´il le chur sı´os agus aireacht teorainn. Ra´th Cairn Deireadh an chosa´in Acomhal ag an Ceannach Talu´ n. Cosa´n le 80,000 reatha scoil na´isiu´ nta to´ ga´il. Duchta´il i gcomhair soilse poiblı´ le chur ar fail. Dha´ duchta spa´ra´il le chur sı´os agus aireacht teorainn. Ra´th Cairn Acomhal R154 Acomhal ag an Re´itigh plean 50,000 scoil na´isiu´ nta gnı´omhaı´ochta Ra´th Cairn Iomla´n 200,000

Bo´ ithre A´ ise

Bliain Ceantar Oibreacha Deontas

2003 Baile Ghib Bo´ thar Teilteann go dtı´ tı´ an Uasail Pilib Mac an Bhaird — 750m. \14,000 Baile Ghib O´ n mbo´ thar mo´ r go teach an Uasail Torlach Mac Garaidh, Baile Ghib — 500m \10,000 Baile Ghib O´ n mbo´ thar mo´ r go teach an Uasail Michea´lO´ Gabhaga´in, Baile Orthaı´ — 360m. \14,000 2001 Ra´th Cairn Obair dheisiu´ cha´n ar ‘Joyce’s lane’ fad 200m £4,000 Ra´th Cairn Cosa´n coisı´ a tho´ ga´il soir chomh fada leis an mea´nscoil nua fad 270m. £10,125 Baile Ghib Cosa´n coisı´ o´ she´ipe´al Bhaile O´ raı´ soir chomh fada le crosbho´ thar Crasulthan — fad 900m. £33,750 1999 Ra´th Cairn Cosa´n coisı´ a tho´ ga´il o´ n Ionad pobail go dtı´ an Scoil Na´isiu´ nta £30,000 1998 Ra´th Cairn O´ nSe´ipe´al go dtı´ Pa´irc Ra´th Cairn £10,000 1997 Ra´th Cairn Cosa´n agus dromchla nua ar an mbo´ thar i mBaile Ra´th Cairn £10,000 1995 Ra´th Cairn An bo´ thar o´ Chomharchumann Ra´th Cairn go dtı´ an Scoil Na´isiu´ nta £10,000

National Drugs Strategy. ments and agencies and since it was launched in May 2001, considerable progress has been made 216. Ms Shortall asked the Minister for Com- in implementing the various actions. munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs if he will In this regard, the Deputy should note that a report on the progress to date in implementing progress report covering the first three years of each of the measures in the national drugs the strategy up to mid-2004 will shortly be laid strategy. [9658/05] before the Houses of the Oireachtas. The report Minister of State at the Department of Com- has been compiled by my Department with input munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs (Mr. N. from the key stakeholders involved in the Ahern): As the Deputy is aware, my Department strategy. has overall responsibility for co-ordinating the 217. Ms Shortall asked the Minister for Com- implementation of the National Drugs Strategy munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs if data exist 2001-2008. The strategy contains 100 individual on the prevalence of drug use in each of the local actions to be implemented by a range of Depart- drugs task force areas; if there are proposals to 1871 Questions— 23 March 2005. Written Answers 1872

[Ms Shortall.] inequities were eliminated; and if she will make a collect such data; the basis on which the effective- statement on the matter. [9638/05] ness of drugs task forces is measured; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [9659/05] Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary Coughlan): There are two basic rates of forestry Minister of State at the Department of Com- premium, one for farmers and another for non- munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs (Mr. N. farmers. Both are laid down by EU regulation. Ahern): The drug prevalence survey conducted The higher farmer rate is designed to cover loss by the National Advisory Committee on Drugs, of agricultural income from the land being which published in October 2003, estimated the planted. prevalence of drug use on a national basis. On the general question of planting small areas Although estimates were also produced in April of land, I am aware that the planting of larger 2004 for health board regions, estimates for the areas offers greater economies of scale. However, local drugs task force, LDTF, areas were not the grant system, which my Department operates, possible due to the small size of the samples in seeks to ensure that no matter what size of plan- those areas. The Deputy should note that this tation is envisaged, the costs of planting are fully issue has also been raised in the context of the covered. mid-term review of the national drugs strategy 220. Mr. Deenihan asked the Minister for Agri- which will be finalised over the coming weeks. culture and Food when notification will be sent With regard to the effectiveness of the LDTFs, to a person (details supplied) in County Kerry this issue is being examined in the expenditure regarding their single payment entitlement; and if review of the task forces, which is currently she will make a statement on the matter. ongoing. The review is examining the outputs and [9639/05] as far as possible, the outcomes of the LDTF pro- cess and projects. It will also be looking at the Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary issue of performance indicators and baselines in Coughlan): A certificate of provisional entitle- order to measure the work of the task forces. ments under the single payment scheme issued to the person named on 1 October 2004. The state- Grant Payments. ment included a detailed breakdown of how the 218. Mr. N. O’Keeffe asked the Minister for provisional entitlements were calculated. Agriculture and Food the position regarding an Farmers who are not satisfied with their pro- application submitted under the single payments visional entitlement statement may seek a review on a form which is available from all local offices entitlement scheme. [9604/05] of my Department and from my Department’s Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary website. To date, a review form has not been Coughlan): The person named submitted an received from the person named. If the person application on 29 October 2004 for consideration named did not receive the statement, a copy can of his circumstances under the second tranche of be provided. Officials of my Department will con- the force majeure-exceptional circumstances tact the person named in this regard. measure of the single payment scheme. He was 221. Mr. Connaughton asked the Minister for notified on 21 March 2005 that the circumstances Agriculture and Food the position regarding the outlined by him do not satisfy the criteria for single payment entitlements for a person (details force majeure-exceptional circumstances under supplied) in County Galway; and if she will make Article 40 of Council Regulation (EC) No. a statement on the matter. [9641/05] 1782/2003. He was advised to submit an appli- cation under the national reserve measure of the Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary single payment scheme, as he had purchased land. Coughlan): A certificate of provisional entitle- The person named has been advised that he can ments under the single payment scheme issued to appeal the decision to the independent single the person named on 1 February 2005. The state- payment appeals committee which will carry out ment included a detailed breakdown of how the a full review of the circumstances outlined. provisional entitlements were calculated. Following the decision on the application sub- However, having arranged for an official of my mitted by the person named under force majeure- Department to contact the person named exceptional circumstances, arrangements are directly, it is understood that the statement was being made to have a provisional entitlement not received. A duplicate is being issued statement issued. immediately. 219. Mr. Sargent asked the Minister for Agri- Farmers who are not satisfied with their pro- culture and Food her plans to eliminate inequities visional entitlement statement may seek a review on a form which is available from all local offices in the forestry grant system such as the discrep- of my Department and from my Department’s ancy in the rate of premium and the fact that for- website. estry organisations are not interested in holdings under three hectares; her views on whether more 222. Mr. Connaughton asked the Minister for smallholders would opt to plant trees if these Agriculture and Food when the 2003 extens- 1873 Questions— 23 March 2005. Written Answers 1874 ification grant will issue to a person (details production capacity which in his case was the supplied) in County Galway; and if she will make leasing in of land. a statement on the matter. [9642/05] During the course of processing his application, it was discovered that he did not submit sufficient Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary documentation to support his claim under either Coughlan): A payable order for \3,760 issued to category. In this regard, my Department has writ- the person named on 21 March 2005 representing ten to him asking him to submit the relevant his full entitlement to 2003 extensification pre- documentation. As soon as this documentation is mium on a total of 47 animals that had already received his application will be considered qualified for payment of 2003 special beef pre- further. mium on his holding. If the person named commenced farming dur- 223. Mr. Connaughton asked the Minister for ing 2002 and received direct payment during that Agriculture and Food the single payment entitle- year he may apply to be treated as a new entrant ments available to a person (details supplied) in during the reference period and I have arranged County Galway; if her attention has been drawn for an application form to be sent to him for com- to circumstances regarding the farm of this per- pletion. If successful, his entitlements would be son; if it is possible for this person’s son to receive based on one year only rather than being aver- entitlements under the national reserve; and if aged over three years, which is the case at she will make a statement on the matter. present. [9643/05] Grant Payments. Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary 225. Mr. Connaughton asked the Minister for Coughlan): The person named has 34.06 entitle- Agriculture and Food the position regarding an \ ments at a total net value of 3,559.27 established application under the national reserve by a per- for her based on the number of her animals which son (details supplied) in Count Galway; and if she qualified for premia payments in 2000 and the will make a statement on the matter. [9645/05] number of hectares she declared in the same year all of which are averaged over three years in Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary accordance with the EU rules governing the sin- Coughlan): There is no record in the Department gle payment scheme. The suckler cow quota of 30 of Agriculture and Food of an application form premium rights, which she held, was leased out under the 2005 single payment national reserve in 2001, 2002 and 2003 and the quota was sold having been received from the person in in 2004. question. The son of the person named has not to date 226. Mr. Connaughton asked the Minister for submitted an application form for consideration Agriculture and Food the position regarding an of his circumstances in respect of the new entrant- application under the national reserve by a per- inheritance measure of the single payment scheme. My Department has been in contact with son (details supplied) in County Galway; and if him and advised him to complete the necessary she will make a statement on the matter. forms which have issued to him. On receipt of [9646/05] the completed application form the matter will receive immediate attention. Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary There is no record in my Department of an Coughlan): The person named submitted an application form under the 2005 single payment application to the 2005 single payment national national reserve having been received from the reserve but the circumstances cited by him do not son of the person named. apply to any category under the reserve. There- fore, he is ineligible for an allocation of entitle- 224. Mr. Connaughton asked the Minister for ments from the reserve. The person in question Agriculture and Food the position regarding an may be eligible to apply under the force majeure application under the national reserve in the measures of the single payment scheme. I have name of a person (details supplied) in County arranged for an application form to be sent to Galway; and if she will make a statement on the him for completion. He should return the com- matter. [9644/05] pleted form with full medical evidence to support his claim to: The Single Payment — force maj- Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary eure- Section, Department of Agriculture and Coughlan): The person named submitted an Food, Old Abbeyleix Road, Portlaoise. The application to the 2005 single payment national application will receive immediate attention as reserve under categories A and B. Category A soon as it has been received. caters for farmers who received a holding free of charge or for a nominal amount from a farmer 227. Mr. Neville asked the Minister for Agri- who has retired or died before 16 May 2005 and culture and Food if a decision with regard to the whose holding was leased out to a third party dur- payment of a beef premium to a person (details ing the reference period 2000 to 2002. Category supplied) in County Limerick will be B caters for farmers who made an investment in reviewed. [9647/05] 1875 Questions— 23 March 2005. Written Answers 1876

Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary former lessee. It is apparent from the docu- Coughlan): The person in question lodged three mentation in this case that the former lessee has applications under the 2004 EU special beef indicated he is willing to renew the lease of land scheme; on 27 January 2004 in respect of two ani- and quota and so it is not appropriate to grant mals, on 2 November 2004 in respect of 38 ani- approval for the person named to enter into a mals and on 2 December 2004 in respect of three lease agreement of land and quota to a new animals. Under the scheme’s terms and con- lessee. ditions, all animals are required to be CMMS compliant on the date of application. Following Refugee Legal Services. computer validation, however, 34 of the animals 229. Mr. J. O’Keeffe asked the Minister for included in the application of 2 November 2004 Justice, Equality and Law Reform the cost of and two of the animals included on the appli- each judicial review of the decisions of the Refu- cation of 2 December 2004 were identified as gee Appeals Tribunal for 2002, 2003 and 2004. non-CMMS compliant on the date of application [9569/05] — they were not recorded as being in the herd of the person named on the date of application. 230. Mr. J. O’Keeffe asked the Minister for In a letter of 29 November 2004, the person Justice, Equality and Law Reform the average was advised that 34 of the animals listed on the cost of each appeal from the Office of the Refu- application of 2 November 2004 were non-com- gee Applications Commissioner to the Refugee pliant with CMMS, while in a letter of 24 January Appeals Tribunal. [9570/05] 2005, the person was advised that two of the ani- 231. Mr. J. O’Keeffe asked the Minister for mals listed on the application of 2 December 2004 Justice, Equality and Law Reform the number of were non-compliant with CMMS. The move- settlements in relation to each respective member ments of all 36 animals into the herd of the per- of the Refugee Appeals Tribunal. [9571/05] son named were recorded on the CMMS data- base on 15 February 2005. 232. Mr. J. O’Keeffe asked the Minister for The processing of 2004 special beef premium Justice, Equality and Law Reform the number of applications is ongoing. Decisions on the eligi- unsuccessful cases per individual Refugee bility of animals for the payment of premium, Appeals Tribunal member judicially reviewed by where errors have been highlighted following the High Court. [9572/05] computer validation, have yet to be made in 233. Mr. J. O’Keeffe asked the Minister for many cases. If it is considered that payment is not Justice, Equality and Law Reform the number of justified, applicants are advised of their right of successful cases per individual Refugee Appeals appeal, initially to a higher officer in the Depart- Tribunal member judicially reviewed by the High ment. If that appeal is not upheld, they can Court. [9573/05] appeal to the agriculture appeals office there- after. The person named is being contacted 234. Mr. J. O’Keeffe asked the Minister for directly about the animals in question. Justice, Equality and Law Reform the number of successful judicial reviews of the Refugee Milk Quota. Appeals Tribunal by the High Court in 2002, 2003 and 2004. [9574/05] 228. Mr. N. O’Keeffe asked the Minister for Agriculture and Food if she will grant permission 235. Mr. J. O’Keeffe asked the Minister for to a person (details supplied) to release their milk Justice, Equality and Law Reform the number of quota to a substitute transferee who meets all the appeals which have either been allowed or conditions of the scheme; and if her attention has rejected by each member of the Refugee Appeals been drawn to the fact that the person who leased Tribunal in 2002, 2003 and 2004. [9575/05] the milk quota for the past five years is no longer 236. Mr. J. O’Keeffe asked the Minister for interested in releasing the quota. [9721/05] Justice, Equality and Law Reform the number of Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary successful appeals from the Office of the Refugee Coughlan): As a derogation from the general rule Applications Commissioner to the Refugee that new leases of land and quota cannot be Appeals Tribunal in 2002, 2003 and 2004. established, the milk quota regulations provide [9576/05] that if a lessor is a participant in the early retire- 237. Mr. J. O’Keeffe asked the Minister for ment scheme, a new lease of land and milk quota Justice, Equality and Law Reform the number of may be put in place if certain conditions are satis- appeals from the Office of the Refugee Appli- fied. The regulations state, however, that the milk cations Commission to the Refugee Appeals Tri- quota shall not transfer to a new lessee unless the bunal in 2002, 2003 and 2004. [9577/05] Minister is satisfied that the original lessee has reasonable cause not to renew the lease. In this Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform regard, any failure to agree price is not con- (Mr. McDowell): I propose to take Questions sidered to be reasonable cause. In processing Nos. 229 to 237, inclusive, together. each application for approval to establish new The information requested by the Deputy, in leases of land and quota, the Department of Agri- so far as it is readily available to me, is provided culture and Food seeks observations from the in this reply. The number of appeals against the 1877 Questions— 23 March 2005. Written Answers 1878 recommendations of the Office of the Refugee and the number of appeals which were granted Applications Commissioner received by the for those years are set out in the tables. Refugee Appeals Tribunal in 2002, 2003 and 2004

Table 1: Appeals Received 2002, 2003 and 2004

Appeal Type 2002 2003 2004

Substantive Appeals 5,157 4,733 2,970 Manifestly Unfounded 104 141 10 Accelerated Appeals 0 281 1,845 Dublin Convention Appeals 101 149 23 EU Dublin II Regulation Appeals 0 2 163

Total 5,362 5,306 5,011

Table 2: Appeals Granted 2002, 2003 and 2004

Appeal Type 2002 2003 2004

Substantive Appeals 1,099 829 642 Manifestly Unfounded 49 23 9 Accelerated Appeals 0 4 60 Dublin Convention Appeals 8 2 25 EU Dublin II Regulation Appeals 0 0 1

Total 1,156 858 737 Note: Manifestly Unfounded, Dublin Convention and Dublin II Regulation recommendations of the Office of the Refugee Applications Commissioner (ORAC), set aside by the Tribunal, are remitted to ORAC for further consideration.

I am informed that the information concerning per appeal is in the region of \1,300. The figures the average cost of an appeal is not readily avail- in question relate specifically to the tribunal. able to the Refugee Appeals Tribunal. However, The following table provides the information based on 6,520 appeal cases completed in 2004 requested by the Deputy, in so far as it is avail- and expenditure including staff salaries in 2004 of able, on the outcomes of judicial review cases \8.4 million — salaries of \4 million and other taken against the tribunal which were finalised in expenditure of \4.4 million — the average cost 2002, 2003 and 2004.

Table 3: Outcome of Judicial Review Cases

2002 2003 2004 Total

Cases settled and other cases where applicant was successful 56 75 124 255 Cases where applicant was unsuccessful 47 26 28 101

I am informed by the tribunal that it commenced cases on any aspect of immigration that are paying judicial review costs from 2003. In 2003, before the courts at present; the category into legal costs, amounting to \33,682.23, were paid which each case falls; the average length of time in respect of four judicial review cases. In 2004, that each case is before the courts; if immigration \787,692.12 was paid in respect of 35 judicial related cases are creating a problem for the oper- review cases. The Deputy asked for additional ation of any court; and if he will make a statement information about individual members of the on the matter. [9578/05] Refugee Appeals Tribunal. I have been advised Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform by the chairperson of the tribunal that as his (Mr. McDowell): As I stated in reply to Question organisation is a statutory body, independent in No. 351 from Deputy Joe Costello on 8 March the performance of its functions under the pro- 2005, it has not been possible in the time available visions of sections 15 and 16 of the Refugee Act to compile the information requested by the 1996, it would be inappropriate for him to pro- Deputy. The information sought is currently vide the requested information. being compiled and I will forward it to the Deputy as soon as it is available. Courts Cases. 238. Mr. J. O’Keeffe asked the Minister for Road Traffic Offences. Justice, Equality and Law Reform the number of 239. Mr. J. O’Keeffe asked the Minister for 1879 Questions— 23 March 2005. Written Answers 1880

[Mr. J. O’Keeffe.] received a five-year residence visa; and if he will Justice, Equality and Law Reform if identical make a statement on the matter. [9584/05] speed detection equipment can be used in speed detection in day time and night time hours. Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform [9579/05] (Mr. McDowell): I am informed that the non- EEA national in question failed to report to the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform Garda immigration authorities in June 2004 to (Mr. McDowell): I am informed by the Garda renew his permission to remain in the State as authorities that the speed detection equipment required under the provisions of the Immigration available to gardaı´ can be used during day time Act. He subsequently came to the attention of the and night time hours. Garda National Immigration Bureau in January 2005 while attempting to unlawfully enter the Garda Investigations. State from the UK without a required Irish visa. 240. Mr. J. O’Keeffe asked the Minister for I understand that an extension of his registration Justice, Equality and Law Reform when the has been refused until such time as the person can answer to Question No. 798 of 26 January 2005 satisfy the immigration authorities with regard to will be available. [9580/05] all the circumstances peculiar to his case includ- ing whether he is complying with the conditions Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform of the residency granted to him. (Mr. McDowell): I regret the information the Deputy requested in Question No. 798 for written Commencement of Legislation. answer on 26 January 2005 was not available at that time. The information requested is outlined 243. Ms Shortall asked the Minister for Justice, in a table which is being made available to the Equality and Law Reform the details of the Deputy. The table shows the number of cases sections of the Children Act 2001 which have not reported to the Garda Sı´ocha´na for 2002, 2003 yet been commenced; the sections which have and 2004 by division and indicates where a fire- been commenced on a phased basis; and the time- arm or firearms were stolen and their type. scale proposed. [9585/05] Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform International Agreements. (Mr. McDowell): The Deputy will appreciate that 241. Mr. Aylward asked the Minister for the Children Act 2001 is a very complex and com- Justice, Equality and Law Reform if, in view of prehensive. As such, provisions under the Act are the continued growth of the high-technology being implemented on a phased basis as envis- industry here and the contribution of this industry aged at the time of its enactment. Responsibility to the economy, there are any negotiations in for implementing the Children Act 2001 lies with progress or contemplated whereby law graduates the Departments of Justice, Equality and Law here will be allowed to practice in Massachusetts Reform, Education and Science and Health and in a manner similar to the arrangement in place Children. The Department of Education and with other US states; and if he will make a state- Science is especially involved in addressing juven- ment on the matter. [9583/05] ile offending while the Department of Health and Children will mainly provisions in respect of chil- Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform dren who are non-offending but out of control. (Mr. McDowell): There are reciprocal recognit- The National Children’s Office is co-ordinating ion arrangements in respect of admission of law- the interdepartmental aspects of the implemen- yers in place between Ireland and the states of tation of the Act. Pennsylvania, New York and California. This is Three main areas of the Act for which I have facilitated by section 44(6) of the Solicitors Act responsibility remain to be brought into oper- 1954 as inserted by section 52 of the Solicitors ation. These involve the age of criminal responsi- (Amendment) Act 1994. The Act permits a per- bility, community-based options and the pro- son who is qualified in a profession corresponding vision of children detention centres for 16 and 17 to that of solicitor in non-EU jurisdictions to be year old offenders. The first commencement admitted as a lawyer to practise in Ireland subject order under the Act in respect of my Department to certain conditions, including that the arrange- was signed by my predecessor on 23 April 2002. ment is reciprocal. There are no negotiations The order, which came into force on 1 May 2002, either in progress or planned with Massachusetts brought into operation a wide range of provisions as that state does not admit lawyers from foreign including Part IV on diversion programmes jurisdictions even on the basis of reciprocity. including the Garda restorative justice provisions; most of Part VI on the treatment of child suspects Residency Permits. in Garda stations; Part VII on the children’s court 242. Mr. Wall asked the Minister for Justice, and Part XII on child protection measures. Equality and Law Reform the reason a person Among the other provisions brought into oper- (details supplied) in County Kildare has not ation on 1 May 2002 were section 113, dealing 1881 Questions— 23 March 2005. Written Answers 1882 with the payment of compensation by parents in flicts arising from crime and resolving the under- respect of offences committed by their children lying problems which cause it. The family con- and section 114 which provides for a court order ferences placed on a statutory footing on 29 July to require parents to exercise proper and 2004 will be convened by the Probation and Wel- adequate control over their children. We have fare Service. The convening of a conference shall also commenced the provisions on restriction on be directed by a court where it considers that the movement orders. preparation of an action plan would be desirable I signed the second commencement order in an individual case. A pilot programme for the under the Act on 29 July 2004 which brought into mentor — family support — order is due to com- operation the remaining restorative justice pro- mence shortly. Pilot programmes for parental visions. Restorative justice is a philosophical supervision orders are also being developed and framework which considers the ways in which are expected to be introduced later this year. crime harms relationships in the context of the The following tabular statement outlines the community. It is a way of dealing with victims and sections of the Children Act 2001 which have not offenders by focusing on the settlement of con- yet been fully commenced by my Department.

Children Act, 2001

Part Section Description

6 59 Notification to Health Board 61(1)(b) Interviewing children 8 77 Referral of case to Health Board 88 Remand in Custody 9 96 Principles relating to exercise of criminal jurisdiction over children 97 Construction of certain reference 98 Orders on finding of guilt 99-107 Probation Officer and other reports 111-112 Parental supervision 115-132 Community sanctions 137-139 Other aspects of community orders 140 -147, 150-153 Detention provisions 154 Amendment of the Criminal Justice (Community Service) Act, 1983 155 Punishment of certain indictable offences 156 Restriction on punishment of children 13 259 Duties of probation officers 262 Delegation by principal probation & welfare officer 263 Temporary accommodation of children 265 Right of appeal

Parental Leave. the recommendation of the working group to increase the age limit to 16 years in the case of a 244. Mr. Ardagh asked the Minister for Justice, child with a disability. Equality and Law Reform if, in relation to par- ental leave, he will examine the question of hav- Registration of Title. ing no age limit for children with special needs when eligibility of parents for leave is being con- 245. Mr. Ellis asked the Minister for Justice, sidered. [9586/05] Equality and Law Reform if his Department will complete a dealing (details supplied). [9612/05] Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform (Mr. McDowell): The circumstances of parents of Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform children with disabilities was considered in the (Mr. McDowell): I am informed by the Registrar context of the review of the Parental Leave Act of Titles that this is a charge application which 1998 conducted by a working group chaired by was lodged on 30 July 2004. Dealing Number my Department. In its 2002 report, the working D2004WS008976E refers. I am further informed group, which comprised the social partners, rel- that this application was completed on 16 Nov- evant Departments and the Equality Authority, ember 2004 and land certificate and copy folio recommended raising the age of eligibility in and file plan issued to lodging solicitors on 17 respect of a child with a disability to 16 years. November 2004. Section 2 (2)(c) of the Parental Leave (Amendment) Bill 2004, which is awaiting Second Illegal Immigrants. Stage in the Da´il, will implement a commitment 246. Mr. Cuffe asked the Minister for Justice, made in Sustaining Progress in accordance with Equality and Law Reform the number of persons 1883 Questions— 23 March 2005. Written Answers 1884

[Mr. Cuffe.] the State for purposes other than those stated; refused leave to enter at the country’s ports of or that the non-national was not in a position to entry in 2004; the number of these who were support himself or herself and any refused entry at Dublin Airport; the main coun- accompanying dependants. tries of origin of these persons; and the grounds Citizenship Applications. on which they were refused leave to enter. [9654/05] 247. Mr. Cuffe asked the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the number of success- Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform ful citizenship applications made by refugees or (Mr. McDowell): During 2004 a total of 4,477 persons with leave to remain status that were pro- persons were refused leave to land at Irish ports cessed to completion between 2000 and 2004; the of entry. In 2004, 2,931 persons were refused number which were unsuccessful during this leave to land at Dublin Airport. The main coun- period; and the main reasons given by his Depart- tries of origin of these people were Nigeria, Bra- ment for this. [9655/05] zil, Romania, Poland, South Africa, China, Lithu- Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform ania, Pakistan, Latvia and India. Since 1 May (Mr. McDowell): The following table outlines, in 2004, Polish, Lithuanian and Latvian nationals so far as figures are available, the number of cer- have enjoyed EU rights of freedom. The main tificates of naturalisation issued and applications grounds on which persons were refused leave to refused, including those for persons with refugee land in 2004 were that the non-national was not in status, for the period 2000 to 2004. Save in very possession of a valid passport or other equivalent exceptional circumstances all applicants for natu- document; the non-national was not the holder of ralisation must have leave to remain — since one a valid Irish entry visa; there was reason to of the conditions for naturalisation is lawful resi- believe that the non-national intended to enter dence in the State.

Year Total number of No. of certificates issued Total number of No. of applications from certificates issued* to refugees* applications refused* refugees refused*

2004 1,335 547 759 302 2003 1,664 742 179 31 2002 1,332 526 109 ** 2001 1,012 385 8 ** 2000 125 47 15 ** * Certificates issued or applications refused do not necessarily refer to applications received in the same year. ** Prior to 2003, records were not maintained in such a way to distinguish refugees who had been refused naturalisation from other applicants.

Records are not maintained in such a way that The two persons referred to by the Deputy are would permit the reasons for decisions to either Nigerian women who were deported from the grant or refuse applications to be quantified State on a charter flight to Lagos on the night of objectively. However, I can say that the main the 14 to 15 March 2005. One of the women was reasons for refusal of naturalisation applications accompanied in the State by four of her children, by persons with refugee status are failure to meet while the other was accompanied by two children. abridged residency and good character The asylum applications of both women and their requirements. children were refused following negative determi- In so far as post-nuptial citizenship is con- nations by the Office of the Refugee Applications cerned, records are not maintained in such a way Commissioner and the Office of the Refugee which would distinguish persons with refugee Appeals Tribunal. Their cases were further con- status from other applicants. sidered under section 3(6) of the Immigration Act 1999, as amended, and section 5 of the Refugee Asylum Applications. Act 1996, including representations on their behalf for leave to remain in the State, before 248. Mr. Penrose asked the Minister for Justice, deportation orders were signed. Equality and Law Reform the status of a person Despite the best efforts of the Garda national (details supplied) in County Westmeath; and if he immigration bureau on the day of the removals will make a statement on the matter. [9656/05] to maintain the unity of both families, the women 249. Mr. Penrose asked the Minister for refused to co-operate with the Garda in locating Justice, Equality and Law Reform the status of a the whereabouts of all their children. In the end person (details supplied) in County Westmeath; both women were deported accompanied by only and if he will make a statement on the matter. one child each. It is understood that the remain- [9657/05] ing four children, who were hidden from the Garda, were passed into the care of other local Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform Nigerian nationals by their mothers. I am told by (Mr. McDowell): I propose to take Questions the Garda national immigration bureau that the Nos. 248 and 249 together. local area Health Service Executive has been 1885 Questions— 23 March 2005. Written Answers 1886 informed of the position in regard to these Education and Science if her Department will children. appoint an extra full-time classroom teacher to a school (details supplied) in County Galway. Departmental Contracts. [9587/05] 250. Mr. Cuffe asked the Minister for Justice, Minister for Education and Science (Ms Equality and Law Reform the name of the airline Hanafin): The mainstream staffing of a primary charter company contracted by his Department school is determined by applying the enrolment to carry out deportations. [9666/05] of the school on 30 September of the previous Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform school year to a staffing schedule, agreed between (Mr. McDowell): Charter flights have been used my Department and the education partners. In on 13 different occasions since January 2002 to accordance with the staffing schedule, the main- carry out the deportation of persons without per- stream staffing of the school referred to by the mission to remain in the State. Following an EU- Deputy for the school year 2004 to 2005 is a prin- wide tender competition, advertised in the cipal and 20 mainstream class teachers based on Official Journal of the European Union, aUK an enrolment of 558 pupils at 30 September 2003. based company, Air Partner PLC, was appointed My Department will finalise the staffing sched- in February 2005 as the approved service pro- ule for the 2005 to 2006 school year shortly and vider for future flights of this type for the next thereafter notify school boards of management. two years. The result of the tender competition According to data submitted to my Department was published in the supplement to the official by the board of management, the enrolment on journal on 3 March 2005. It should be noted that 30 September 2004 in the school was 535 pupils. the specific air carrier contracted by the service The staffing for the 2005 to 2006 school year will provider can vary from charter to charter. be determined on the basis of this figure and in accordance with the agreed staffing schedule. Visa Applications. As outlined in primary circular 19/02, an inde- pendent appeals board was established to adjudi- 251. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Justice, cate on appeals from boards of management on Equality and Law Reform if and when a visa mainstream staffing allocations in primary extension will be offered in the case of a person schools. The appeals board operates indepen- (details supplied) in County Kildare; and if he dently of the Minister and my Department and will make a statement on the matter. [9726/05] its decision is final. Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform Appeals must be submitted to primary pay- (Mr. McDowell): The immigration division of my ments section, Department of Education and Department has recently been in correspondence Science, Athlone, on the standard application with the person in question regarding his immi- form, clearly stating the criterion under which the gration status. A decision will be made on the appeal is being made, after the schedule for the case on receipt of the documentation requested. 2005 to 2006 school year has issued.

Citizenship Applications. Special Educational Needs. 252. Mr. Timmins asked the Minister for 254. Mr. Aylward asked the Minister for Edu- Justice, Equality and Law Reform the position in cation and Science if an immediate review will be regard to an application for Irish citizenship by a made of the application for resource teaching and person (details supplied) in County Carlow; if this a special needs assistant for a person (details will be granted as a matter of urgency; and if he supplied) in County Kilkenny. [9588/05] will make a statement on the matter. [9753/05] Minister for Education and Science (Ms Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform Hanafin): The Deputy may be aware that the (Mr. McDowell): As I explained to the Deputy in my response to his earlier question on 23 National Council for Special Education, NCSE, February last, a declaration of acceptance of Irish which has been operational since 1 January 2005, citizenship as post-nuptial citizenship was is responsible for processing applications for received in the citizenship section of my Depart- special educational needs, SEN, supports. Some ment from the person referred to in the Deputy’s 71 special educational needs organisers, SENOs, question on the 16 December 2004. I stated then have been recruited throughout the country and that it was likely that the processing of the declar- will be a focal point of contact for schools and ation of the person referred to would be finalised parents. in October 2005. My Department officials have been informed Such declarations are normally processed in by the NCSE that the matter has been referred chronological order unless there are exceptional to the local SENO. The SENO has been in con- circumstances for expediting a particular case. I tact with the parent of the pupil concerned and will give consideration to the information has arranged a meeting to discuss the matter in included with the question and I will contact both more detail. the Deputy and the applicant in the near future. School Discipline. School Staffing. 255. Ms Enright asked the Minister for Edu- 253. Mr. McCormack asked the Minister for cation and Science the guidelines which are 1887 Questions— 23 March 2005. Written Answers 1888

[Ms Enright.] code must specify the standards of behaviour that issued to schools in regard to discipline; and if she shall be observed by each student attending the will make a statement on the matter. [9589/05] school; the measures that may be taken when a student fails or refuses to observe those stan- Minister for Education and Science (Ms dards; the procedures to be followed before a Hanafin): My Department has provided guide- student may be suspended or expelled from the lines to boards of management to assist them in school concerned; the grounds for removing a discharging their obligations in the area of school suspension imposed on a student; and the pro- discipline. These guidelines, which issued in 1991, cedures to be followed relating to notification of were drawn up following consultation with rep- a child’s absence from school. resentatives of management, teachers and The school principal is required, before regis- parents, and are sufficiently flexible to allow each school authority to adapt them to suit the part- tering a child in the school, to provide the child’s icular needs of the school. parents with a copy of the code of behaviour and may, as a condition of registering the child, Each board of management is responsible for require his or her parents to confirm in writing formulating, in consultation with parents, a fair that the code is acceptable to them and that they and efficient code of behaviour. This code should ensure that the individuality of each child is will make all reasonable efforts to ensure the accommodated while acknowledging the right of child will comply with the code. each child to education in a relatively disruption- The Deputy is aware that I recently established free environment. The code should also include a task force to consider and report on the issue provision for dealing with serious breaches of dis- of student behaviour in second level schools. The cipline and continuously disruptive pupils. task force is chaired by Dr. Maeve Martin of the The guidelines state that codes of behaviour National University of Ireland, Maynooth. The should be considered in the context of the school work of this task force will provide a solid found- being a community in which mutual respect, co- ation for developing policies and best practice in operation and natural justice are integral fea- our schools into the future. It will link closely to tures. A code should have regard for the rights a wide range of interests across our education and responsibilities of all parties concerned, system on this important issue. including management, teachers, pupils and parents. Circumstances vary from school to Bullying in Schools. school and those intimately involved are best 256. Ms Enright asked the Minister for Edu- placed to draw up an appropriate code for that cation and Science the guidelines which are school. issued to schools in regard to bullying; and if she The guidelines recognise that poor behaviour will make a statement on the matter. [9590/05] can stem from a range of causes, some of them external to the school, some arising from the Minister for Education and Science (Ms home environment, and some from emotional or Hanafin): My Department issued guidelines on physical problems. It is important to identify countering bullying behaviour to all primary and problems as early as possible. Good parent- post-primary schools in 1993. The purpose of the teacher and home-school links are vital in this guidelines is to assist schools in devising school- context. The guidelines stipulate that parents based measures to prevent and deal with should be encouraged to visit the school to fam- instances of bullying behaviour and to increase iliarise themselves with the environment, to dis- awareness of the problem among school manage- cuss their children’s progress and, when neces- ment authorities, staff, pupils and parents. The sary, aspects of their behaviour in a spirit of guidelines remind school authorities of their mutual co-operation. responsibility in formulating a written code of In addressing the issue of sanctions for behaviour and discipline, which should include unacceptable behaviour, each school should specific measures to counter bullying behaviour. devise a graded system of sanctions, containing a The guidelines define bullying behaviour and degree of flexibility to take account of individual provide advice and guidance for schools on iden- circumstances. Schools must ensure that the rules tifying different types of bullying behaviour; iden- of natural justice apply. Pupils and, when neces- tifying the signs, symptoms and characteristics of sary, parents, should be advised of the nature of bullying behaviour; the areas in which bullying any complaint and be given an opportunity to behaviour is likely to occur; the elements which respond. Parents should also be informed of their should be included in an anti-bullying policy; right of appeal to the next level of authority. involvement of the entire school and the wider There are several strategies which may be used community; and procedures for dealing with to show disapproval of misbehaviour, such as rep- incidents. rimand, temporary separation from peers, loss of The guidelines define bullying as “repeated privileges, detention, additional homework, aggression, verbal, psychological or physical con- referral to principal or communication with ducted by an individual or group against others”. parents. Only after every other effort has failed The various types of bullying behaviour are out- should suspension or expulsion be considered. lined and the signs and symptoms of bullying I refer the Deputy to section 23 of the Edu- behaviour are described. The procedures for cation (Welfare) Act 2000 which requires all investigating allegations and dealing with inci- schools to have in place a code of behaviour. The dents of bullying are also set out in the guidelines. 1889 Questions— 23 March 2005. Written Answers 1890

Managerial authorities of primary and post-pri- teach, including periods of supervision, remains. mary schools are responsible for the manage- Special needs assistants, who may be assigned to ment, organisation and administration of the schools to cater for pupils with significant care schools and are, therefore, responsible for ensur- needs, may be required to assist such pupils with ing the adequate and reasonable measures toileting, if appropriate. approved by them to counter bullying are in oper- While my Department does not issue specific ation in their schools. Each school is advised to guidelines on requirements for supervision of make the prevention of bullying an integral part different age pupils, it acknowledges that the of its written code of behaviour and discipline. degree of supervision required of school auth- In developing its policy to counter bullying orities varies with the circumstances, including behaviour, the managerial authority of each the age of the pupil. This duty, in the case of very school must formulate the policy in co-operation young pupils, might include an obligation to with the school staff, both teaching and non- ensure that such pupils do not leave the class- teaching, under the leadership of the principal, room without appropriate supervision. and in consultation with parents and pupils. In this way, the exercise of agreeing what is meant Linguistic Institute of Ireland. by bullying and the resultant development of 258. Mr. Gormley asked the Minister for Edu- school-based strategies for dealing with it are cation and Science the progress on the ITE/The shared by all concerned. It is essential that all par- Linguistic Institute of Ireland; and if she will ties concerned have a clear understanding of the make a statement on the matter. [9592/05] policy aims and content if the policy is to form the basis for developing effective school-based 259. Mr. Gormley asked the Minister for Edu- strategies for dealing with the problem. The cation and Science if all legal issues raised in the policy must be promoted by the school mana- ITE have been resolved; and if she will make a gerial authorities within the school to all pupils, statement on the matter. [9593/05] parents and staff on a repeated basis with part- icular attention being given to incoming pupils 260. Mr. Gormley asked the Minister for Edu- and their parents. cation and Science the reason the Linguistic The education of students in both primary and Institute of Ireland is currently advertising for post-primary schools in regard to anti-bullying new staff while it is in liquidation; and if she will behaviour is a central part of the social, personal make a statement on the matter. [9594/05] and health education, SPHE, curriculum. The Minister for Education and Science (Ms programme supports the personal development, Hanafin): I propose to take Questions Nos. 258 health and well-being of young people and helps to 260, inclusive, together. them create and maintain supportive At an extraordinary general meeting of ITE, relationships. held on 18 July 2003, the company agreed to initiate a process of voluntary liquidation. This School Supervision. decision was a matter for the members in accord- 257. Ms Enright asked the Minister for Edu- ance with the memorandum and articles of associ- cation and Science the guidelines which are ation and relevant company law. I understand issued to schools in regard to the accompaniment that a meeting of the executive committee of ITE of pupils when they leave the classroom to attend on 5 December 2003 agreed a timetable for the the toilet; if different guidelines are issued in appointment of a liquidator, who was sub- respect of different age pupils; and if she will sequently appointed on 9 January 2004, and make a statement on the matter. [9591/05] agreed to issue redundancy notices to staff in advance of this. Minister for Education and Science (Ms My Department has given a commitment to Hanafin): Sections 14, 15 and 23 of the Education provide every assistance to the company in giving Act 1998 assigns each board of management and effect to its decision, in partnership with the staff principal teacher responsibility for the day-to-day of the Institute, and has been working closely management of schools at both primary and post- with the liquidator since his appointment in this primary level. Principals should organise super- regard. This includes exploring possible arrange- vision for the order and general behaviour of ments for the continuation of certain research pupils during school hours. In particular, they activities previously carried out by the Institute should organise and participate in the effective and, in the interests of assisting with an orderly supervision of the pupils during breaks, lunch wind-up, facilitating appropriate re-deployment breaks, assembly and dismissal. or other appropriate arrangements for staff in Rules 121(4) and 124(1) of the rules for line with general public service policy in these national schools and section 23(2) of the Edu- matters and subject to agreement with the cation Act 1998 oblige teachers to take all reason- Department of Finance. A number of ITE staff able precautions to ensure the safety of pupils have been redeployed and options that may be and to participate in supervising pupils when the available for remaining staff continue to be pupils are on school premises, during school time explored by the Department. The period of and-or on school activities. Accordingly, the notice of redundancy for staff at ITE has been responsibility of all teachers individually and col- periodically extended by the liquidator to take lectively to provide a duty of care at all times account of the ongoing process of pursuing re- towards the pupils in the school in which they deployment options. 1891 Questions— 23 March 2005. Written Answers 1892

[Ms Hanafin.] accepted scientific guidelines that specify The Department remains in contact with the maximum acceptable levels of radiation. remaining ITE staff either through the liquidator, their union representatives or directly in order to Higher Education Grants. keep them appraised as developments occur. The 262. Mr. N. O’Keeffe asked the Minister for entitlements of those employees for whom appro- Education and Science if she will investigate an priate redeployment arrangements are not made entitlement to payment of the top up mainten- will be determined in accordance with the terms ance grant under the higher education grant of their contracts. system in respect of a person (details supplied) in There are a number of legal issues as regards County Cork. [9603/05] the liquidation of ITE and the liquidator is pro- gressing these matters. It would not be appro- Minister for Education and Science (Ms priate for me to comment further on these issues. Hanafin): The decision on eligibility for third ITE conducted an all-Ireland survey on the use level grants is a matter for the relevant local auth- of the Irish language and the appointment of a ority or VEC. These bodies do not refer individ- research assistant on a short term basis during ual applications to my Department except in 2005 is to assist with the completion of this exceptional cases, where, for example, advice or survey. instruction regarding a particular clause in the relevant scheme is desired. Mobile Telephony. It appears that no such advice or instruction has, to date, been sought in the case of the 261. Mr. Gormley asked the Minister for Edu- student referred to by the Deputy. If an individ- cation and Science her views on an anomaly in ual applicant considers that he or she has been the Planning and Development Regulations 2001, unjustly refused a maintenance grant, or that the whereby mobile phone base stations may not be rate of grant awarded is not the correct one, he installed on educational facilities without plan- or she may appeal to the relevant local authority ning permission, but may be installed on public or VEC. Where an individual applicant has had or commercial buildings directly adjacent to such an appeal turned down, in writing, by the relevant facilities without any planning permission; if her local authority or VEC, and remains of the view attention has been drawn to the fact that this is that the body has not interpreted the schemes inconsistent not only with the latest recommend- correctly in his-her case, a letter outlining the ations of the UK independent expert group on position may be sent to my Department. Alterna- mobile phones, but with the advice of the Mini- tively, as already indicated, the local authority or ster for Communications, Marine and Natural VEC may, in exceptional circumstances, seek Resources to Da´il E´ ireann in 2004. [9595/05] clarification on issues from my Department. However, it is not open to me, or the Depart- Minister for Education and Science (Ms ment, to depart from the terms of the mainten- Hanafin): The Deputy will be aware that the ance grants schemes in individual cases. drafting of planning and development regulations is a matter for the Minister for Environment, Teachers’ Remuneration. Heritage and Local Government and the siting of individual mobile phone masts is a matter for the 263. Ms O’Sullivan asked the Minister for Edu- relevant planning authority. The issue referred to cation and Science when part-time teachers at a school (details supplied) in County Limerick will in the details supplied by the Deputy is a matter receive contracts of employment in accordance for the Minister for Communications, Marine and with legislation; and if she will make a statement Natural Resources. My Department has no role on the matter. [9660/05] in either area. Notwithstanding this, I appreciate the concerns Minister for Education and Science (Ms surrounding the issues raised. However, I under- Hanafin): Arising from the Protection of stand from my colleague, the Minister for Employees (Part-Time Work) Act 2001, a part- Communications, Marine and Natural Resources time fully qualified teacher employed for the full that it is the continuing opinion of all relevant school year to provide teaching for a specified international bodies that radio frequency fields number of hours during each week, may be around mobile telephone masts are not con- awarded a pro rata contract. A pro rata contract sidered a health risk. Furthermore, his Depart- will normally run from 1 September to 31 August. ment is not aware of any national or international A letter has recently issued from my Depart- health advisory authority which has recom- ment to the VEC concerned confirming that it mended that a direct beam should not fall on may proceed to award pro rata contracts to part- school property as a result of telecommunication time teachers in the school in question where mast sitings. He has also indicated to me that if such teachers meet the criteria set out in Circulars the Deputy can identify any such work, he will 20/03 and 17/04 concerning the implementation of have it studied by experts in his Department. The the Part-Time Workers Act 2001. Minister points out that if any relevant inter- national body to which Ireland belongs were to Schools Building Projects. make such a recommendation, an appropriate 264. Mr. O’Dowd asked the Minister for Edu- response would be considered, given the policy of cation and Science the progress to date regarding his Department to abide by internationally a new national school for Mell, Drogheda, 1893 Questions— 23 March 2005. Written Answers 1894

County Louth; and if she will make a statement these in place so that further implementation of on the matter. [9661/05] the Act can take place in a satisfactory and struc- tured manner. The Department is currently in Minister for Education and Science (Ms discussion with the various parties involved and Hanafin): The property management section of when these discussions are finalised, it is intended the OPW, which acts on behalf of my Depart- to continue the phased implementation of further ment in relation to site acquisitions is currently in sections of the Act, as is necessary and negotiations regarding the acquisition of a site for appropriate. the provision of a new primary school at Mell, As regards the national youth work develop- Drogheda, County Louth. The Department will \ keep the school authority informed of ment plan, 580,000 has been expended to date developments. on a number of priority action areas. The plan covers a five year period from 2003 to 2007 and Special Educational Needs. the cost for each of the coming years will be dependent on the action areas identified and 265. Mr. Connaughton asked the Minister for agreed for implementation each year. Action Education and Science the reason a person areas for implementation for 2005 are currently (details supplied) in County Galway will not be being considered in the light of a submission entitled to 2.5 hours resource teaching on a one- made to me by the Irish Vocational Education to-one basis; if her attention has been drawn to Association, the CEOs association and the the fact that next year will be this person’s last National Youth Council of Ireland. The financial year at national school and that the professional provision required on a yearly basis will, there- assessment is that they need one-to-one resource fore, be determined by the actions of the plan teaching urgently for the final year at national identified and agreed for implementation each school; and if she will make a statement on the year having regard to available financial matter. [9662/05] resources. Minister for Education and Science (Ms Hanafin): I wish to advise the Deputy that the Higher Education Grants. school in question currently has the services of a 267. Mr. N. O’Keeffe asked the Minister for shared learning support teacher post and a shared Education and Science if her attention has been resource teacher post, supporting a total enrol- drawn to the serious delays in having higher edu- ment of 66 pupils. At the moment the special edu- cation grant payments issued to students whose cational needs of the pupil concerned are being parents are dependent on social welfare pay- met from within these resources. ments and in cases in which extreme hardship is being experienced by these families; if her atten- Youth Services. tion has further been drawn to the fact that in 266. Mr. Stanton asked the Minister for Edu- some cases the academic year has been com- cation and Science the sections of the Youth pleted by the student before the grant is awarded; Work Act 2001 that have been implemented to if her attention has further been drawn to the date; her plans for the implementation of the case of persons (details supplied) in County Cork; remaining sections of the Act; the funding that and if she will investigate the administration of has been available to date for the implementation this grant scheme by the authorities to ensure that of the national youth work development plan; the the families most in need of their grants receive timescale for the implementation of the plan; her approval and payment as a priority. [9758/05] estimate of the cost each year for the next five Minister for Education and Science (Ms years; and if she will make a statement on the Hanafin): My Department funds four mainten- matter. [9756/05] ance grant schemes for third level and further Minister for Education and Science (Ms education students. These are the higher edu- Hanafin): The Youth Work Act 2001 provides a cation grants scheme, the vocational education legal framework for the provision of youth work committees’ scholarships scheme, the third level programmes and services to be organised by the maintenance grants scheme for trainees and the Minister for Education and Science, the maintenance grants scheme for students vocational education committees and national attending post-leaving certificate courses. and regional youth work organisations. Section 1 The higher education grants scheme is adminis- of the Act provides for sections to be commenced tered by the local authorities. The other three at different stages. Sections 2 to 7, inclusive, 17, schemes are administered by the vocational edu- 18 and 24 have been commenced to date. cation committees. My Department carried out a A sub-committee of the national youth work survey of the 66 local authorities and VECs, early advisory committee, representative of both statu- in 2005, in respect of the status of applications for tory and voluntary sectors as well as my Depart- student grants for the current academic year as at ment is engaged in ongoing work, including the mid-January. The survey indicated that decisions development of detailed guidelines and pro- had been taken on at least 82% of applications at cedures which are necessary for the further that time. Close to 15% of the remaining 18% implementation of the Act. It is considered essen- of applications received were awaiting additional tial to have agreement between all the interested documentation or the application form was parties on the necessary procedures and to have incomplete. The remaining 3% were either part 1895 Questions— 23 March 2005. Written Answers 1896

[Ms Hanafin.] Environment, Heritage and Local Government processed by the awarding authority, or pro- his views on an anomaly in the Planning and cessing had yet to commence. These include late Development Regulations 2001, whereby mobile applications accepted by the awarding authorities phone base stations may not be installed on and applications received in respect of courses hospitals without planning permission, but may which commence in the first quarter of the 2005 be installed on public or commercial buildings calendar year. directly adjacent to hospitals without any plan- My Department in recognition of the import- ning permission; if his attention has been drawn ance of the timely provision of payment to eli- to the fact that this is inconsistent not only with gible students is engaged in ongoing consultations the latest recommendations of the UK indepen- with the Irish Vocational Education Association dent expert group on mobile phones, but with the and the County and City Managers’ Association advice of the Minister for Communications, with a view to improving the existing arrange- Marine and Natural Resources to Da´il E´ ireann ments and ensuring the earlier processing of in 2004; and if he will make a statement on the applications and the making of payments to eli- matter. [9546/05] gible students. 274. Mr. Gormley asked the Minister for the The Department is also in discussions with the Environment, Heritage and Local Government if existing stakeholders as regards the future admin- he plans to review the Planning and Development istration of the schemes. My intention is that Regulations 2001, to remove an anomaly whereby whatever future administration of the schemes is mobile phone base stations may not be installed put in place will be one which delivers a quality on educational facilities, child care facilities or and timely service to students that ensures con- hospitals without planning permission, but may sistency of application and client accessibility. be installed on public or commercial buildings The decision on eligibility for third level grants directly adjacent to such facilities without any and the issue of grant awards is a matter for the planning permission; if his attention has been relevant local authority or VEC. These bodies do drawn to the fact that this is inconsistent not only not refer individual applications to my Depart- with the latest recommendations of the UK inde- ment except, in exceptional cases, where, for pendent expert group on mobile phones, but with example, advice or instruction regarding a part- the advice of the Minister for Communications, icular clause in the relevant scheme is desired. It Marine and Natural Resources to Da´il Eireann appears that no such advice or instruction has, to in 2004; and if he will make a statement on the date, been sought in the case of the student, matter. [9596/05] referred to by the Deputy. Minister for the Environment, Heritage and FCA Training. Local Government (Mr. Roche): I propose to take Questions Nos. 269 and 274 together. 268. Mr. Timmins asked the Minister for I refer the Deputy to the reply to Question No. Defence the position in relation to a person 175 of today’s date to my colleague the Minister (details supplied) who wishes to transfer service for Communications, Marine and Natural with the FCA to the CBFSAI; if this FCA service Resources. I have no current proposals to amend on full-time security duties can be allowed; and if the Planning and Development Regulations 2001 he will make a statement on the matter. as regards mobile phone antennae, but I will keep [9754/05] the matter under review in the light of any advice Minister for Defence (Mr. O’Dea): Under the received from the Minister for Communications, Defence Forces pensions schemes, pensionable Marine and Natural Resources. service consists mainly of full-time service in the Permanent Defence Force, PDF. Service in An Youth Facilities. Fo´ rsa Cosanta A´ itiu´ il, FCA, is not generally 270. Mr. Bruton asked the Minister for the reckonable as pensionable service. Exceptionally, Environment, Heritage and Local Government if however, service on full-time security duties by he is considering the development of any support members of the FCA may be reckoned and may scheme for skateboarding on a pilot basis; if his be aggregated with pensionable service in the attention has been drawn to the financial diffi- PDF in the case only of former members of the culties which skateboarding park (details FCA who were assimilated into the PDF under supplied) are experiencing; and if he will make a special arrangements made in 1982 and 1988-89 statement on the matter. [9598/05] or who enlisted in the PDF outside of those special arrangements and were in service on 1 Minister for the Environment, Heritage and January 1990. Local Government (Mr. Roche): On 20 February As the person in question is not within any of 2005, I announced my intention to introduce a the categories mentioned, his FCA service is not new initiative to provide, on a pilot basis, facilities reckonable under the Defence Forces pensions for teenagers, such as skateboard parks. My schemes and consequently is not transferable to Department is developing this proposal and I any other State organisation for superannuation intend to announce specific details as soon as purposes. possible. I am aware that several local authorities, including those in the Dublin area, are already developing proposals for skateboard parks. I Planning Issues. have, however, no information regarding the 269. Mr. Gormley asked the Minister for the specific park referred to in the question. 1897 Questions— 23 March 2005. Written Answers 1898

Ionad Oidhreachta. buildings are obliged to provide access for people with disabilities. Advice on how to comply with 271. D’fhiafraigh Aengus O´ Snodaigh den Part M is contained in technical guidance docu- Aire Comhshaoil, Oidhreachta agus Rialtais A´ iti- ment M published by my Department. u´ il an bhfuil aon phleananna ann chun ionad The Disability Bill 2004 is currently before the oidhreachta a chur ar fa´il do dhu´ iche Thailteann Oireachtas. In anticipation of its enactment, my i gContae na Mı´; ar eisigh Oifig na nOibreacha Department has prepared a draft local govern- Poiblı´,no´ an bhfuil se´ i gceist aici, bileoga eolais ment outline sectoral plan. There will be full con- ae´isiu´ nt go ha´itiu´ l faoi stair cheantar Thailteann sultation on this draft sectoral plan with represen- in aice le Baile Ghib, Contae na Mı´. [9613/05] tatives of people with disabilities over the coming 272. D’fhiafraigh Aengus O´ Snodaigh den months, prior to its approval by the Oireachtas Aire Comhshaoil, Oidhreachta agus Rialtais A´ iti- under the Disabilities Bill when enacted. In so far u´ il an eol do´ go mbı´onn turaso´ irı´ ag teacht ar as libraries are concerned, any requirements will cuairt chuig ceantar Thailteann in aice le Baile be part of the accessibility plan to be prepared Ghib, Contae na Mı´, agus go mbı´onn dı´oma´ orthu by local authorities and will be included in their toisc an suı´omh ta´bhachtach staire agus seanda´la- implementation plans. ı´ochta seo a bheith ar thalamh prı´oba´ideach agus In addition to physical access to library build- e´ deacair teacht air; an bhfuil da´ re´ir aon phlean ings for people with disabilities, my Department ag Oifig na nOibreacha Poiblı´ an talamh sin a is providing funding for the provision of optical cheannach, no´ cosa´n cuı´ a tho´ gaint isteach scanning facilities in public libraries to assist visu- chuige. [9614/05] ally impaired persons and the necessary software and equipment to assist persons with learning and 273. D’fhiafraigh Aengus O´ Snodaigh den literacy difficulties. A fund of \440,000 is avail- Aire Comhshaoil, Oidhreachta agus Rialtais A´ iti- able to meet the cost of providing 100 optical u´ il cad iad na deontais Eorpacha no´ na´isiu´ nta ar scanners in public libraries. To date, grants have fe´idir le muintir cheantar Thailteann in aice le been paid towards purchase, installation and Baile Ghib, Contae na Mı´ cur isteach orthu chun associated training costs for optical scanners in 41 togra ar no´ s chur chun cinn stair agus bhe´aloideas public libraries. an cheantair a dhe´anamh. [9615/05] Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Authority Charges. Local Government (Mr. Roche): Ta´ se´ ı´ gceist 276. Mr. Timmins asked the Minister for the agam Ceisteanna Uimh. 271 go 273 a tho´ ga´il le Environment, Heritage and Local Government che´ile. the new charges which local authorities have been Nı´l aon phlean ag mo Roinn talamh a chean- authorised to implement since June 1997; the nach no ionad oidhreachta a tho´ ga´il ı´ gceantar existing charges which may have been increased; Tailteann i gContae na Mı´ no´ bileoga eolais a if the mechanism by which they have been calcu- fhoilsiu´ . Seachas an Fordal Na´isiu´ nta Oidhre- lated has changed; and if he will make a state- achta Ailtireachta agus an Suirbhe´ireactha Sean- ment on the matter. [9667/05] da´laı´ochta na hE´ ireann i gcomhar gContae, ata´ faoi shiu´ l i mo Roinnse agus a foilsı´tear o´ am go Minister for the Environment, Heritage and h-am, nı´l aon chabhair dı´reach ar fa´il faoi bhra´id Local Government (Mr. Roche): The following mo Roinnse chun stair agus be´aloideas aitiu´ il a new charges or increases in existing local auth- chur chun chinn. Ta´ na foilseacha´in thuasluaite i ority charges since June 1997 have been provided gcomhar Chontae na Mı´ ar fa´il o´ n Oifig Dhı´olta for in legislation: fees were introduced in 1997 for Foilseacha´n Rialtais. service stations for certificates of compliance with Ta´ deontaisı´ le fa´il o´ n gComhairle Oidhreachta the Air Pollution Act (Petroleum Vapour d’fhoilseacha´in oidhreachta a´itiu´ il agus is fe´idir Emissions) Regulations 1997; mortgage protec- tuilleadh eolais faoi na deontaisı´ sin a fha´il o´ n tion rates for house purchase loans have varied gComhairle. since 1997 and the administration charge that local authorities can apply to housing loans was Question No. 274 answered with Question increased from 1 July 2000 and again 1 September No. 269. 2000; fees in respect of producers of packaging waste who register for self-compliance under the Access for People with Disabilities. Waste Management (Packaging) Regulations 1997 were introduced in 1997 and increased in 275. Mr. Stanton asked the Minister for the 2003; fees in respect of producers of farm plastics Environment, Heritage and Local Government who register for self-compliance were introduced his plans to ensure all public libraries in the State in 1997 under the Waste Management (Farm are accessible to persons with disabilities; the way Plastics) Regulations 1997; a new fee under the in which he intends to achieve this aim; the pro- Building Control Regulations 1997 in respect of gress that has been made in this matter to date; commencement notices to building control auth- and if he will make a statement on the matter. orities was introduced from 1 July 1998; fees in [9597/05] respect of fire safety certificates in respect of cer- Minister for the Environment, Heritage and tain buildings and for dispensations-relaxations Local Government (Mr. Roche): Part M of the from the building regulations for buildings other National Building Regulations, operative from 1 than dwellings were increased in 1998; fees for June 1992, requires that persons constructing new planning applications, fees payable to An Bord public buildings or extending existing public Pleana´la, the fee payable for extending the period 1899 Questions— 23 March 2005. Written Answers 1900

[Mr. Roche.] Local Government (Water Pollution) Regu- of planning permission and licence fees for speci- lations 1992 as amended by the Local Govern- fied appliances and structures were increased ment (Water Pollution)(Fees) Regulations 2001. under the Local Government (Planning and The fee serves as a contribution towards the costs Development) (Fees) (Amendment) Regulations incurred by a local authority in processing an 1998. application for a licence in relation to a discharge The Planning and Development Regulations to waters or to a sewer. The regulations came into 2001 further increased certain of these fees: fees operation on 1 November 1992. for making a submission on a planning appli- cation and a fee for a declaration under section 5 An Chomhairle Leabharlanna. of the Planning and Development Act 2000 as to 278. Mr. Stanton asked the Minister for the whether development is or is not exempted Environment, Heritage and Local Government development were introduced in 2001; the fee for the funding made available in 2003 and 2004 for certificates of rateable valuation was increased in An Chomhairle Leabharlanna; the role and func- 2000 — since November 2002 it has been a matter tion of An Chomhairle Leabharlanna; and if he for each local authority to set the level of fee it will make a statement on the matter. [9757/05] charges for these certificates; fees were intro- Minister for the Environment, Heritage and duced for certificates of compliance with the Local Government (Mr. Roche): An Chomhairle Emissions of Volatile Organic Compounds from Leabharlanna was established under the Public Organic Solvents Regulations 2002. There was no Libraries Act 1947. Its functions, as outlined in significant change in the mechanism by which the Local Government Act 2001, are the pro- increases in fees were calculated. vision of advice, assistance and services to library In addition to the fees and charges set by legis- authorities in relation to the public library ser- lation as set out above, local authorities have vice; the making of such recommendations to, powers to impose a wide range of charges for and the provision of such services for, the Mini- goods and services and the exercise of these ster for the Environment, Heritage and Local powers is a matter for individual local authorities. Government on the public library services as the Changes in motor tax rates, the proceeds of which Minister may request or as the council sees fit; are paid into the local government fund, have not action to promote and facilitate library co-oper- been included in above as this is considered to be ation; and the maintenance and operation of the a taxation instrument rather than a charge for a Central Library established under section 2 of the specific service. Public Libraries Act of 1947. An Chomhairle 277. Mr. Timmins asked the Minister for the Leabharlanna is funded by a levy on each library Environment, Heritage and Local Government authority towards its expenses. The total levy in \ \ when a charge for a trade effluent licence fee was 2003 and 2004 was 1,094,414 and 1,112,981 implemented; the rate of the fee; the way in respectively. which it is calculated; and if he will make a state- Water and Sewerage Schemes. ment on the matter. [9668/05] 279. Mr. N. O’Keeffe asked the Minister for Minister for the Environment, Heritage and the Environment, Heritage and Local Govern- Local Government (Mr. Roche): A licence ment if his Department has been responsible for granted by a local authority under section 4 or 16 the delay in a sewerage scheme (details supplied) of the Local Government (Water Pollution) Act being put in place in County Cork; and if his 1977 may be subject to such conditions as the attention has been drawn to the fact that the local authority considers appropriate. These con- necessary capital allocation was approved for this ditions may require the making of payments by project in 1999. [9792/05] the licensee to the local authority to defray or Minister for the Environment, Heritage and contribute towards the costs incurred by the local Local Government (Mr. Roche): The Buttevant authority in relation to matters such as monitor- sewerage scheme has been approved for funding ing, treating or disposing of a discharge. The in my Department’s water services investment amount of any such payment is a matter for programme 2004-6 under the rural towns and vil- determination by the relevant local authority or, lages initiative. on appeal, by An Bord Pleana´la. The powers of My Department has approved Cork County a local authority to attach such conditions to a Council’s contract documents for the sewage col- licence are provided for by section 4(5)(b) and lection system and it is a matter for the council 16(4)(b) of the 1977 Act which became effective to advance the tender process for these works. on 1 October 1978 and 1 January 1979, respect- The waste water treatment plant for Buttevant is ively, by virtue of the Local Government (Water being separately procured as part of a grouped Pollution) Act 1997 (Sections 4 and 16) (Fixing design-build-operate contract that also includes of Dates) Order 1978. Kilbrin and Doneraile. My Department is An application for a licence under section 4 or awaiting submission of revised tender documents 16 of the Act must be accompanied by a fee of for the treatment plants for approval, as \380. The amount of the fee is prescribed by the requested from the council in October 2004.