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In the United States District Court for the District 3 IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT INDEX FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLORADO WITNESS PAGE GARY KLECK 4 CIVIL ACTION NO. 13-cv-1300-MSK-MJW Direct Examination by Mr. Grove 4 JOHN B. COOKE, et al, Plaintiffs, Volume 1 INDEX OF EXHIBITS vs. Page 1 - 148 (Exhibits are attached.) JOHN W. HICKENLOOPER, Governor of the State of Colorado, NO. Description PAGE Defendant. 1 Supplemented Expert Report of Gary Kleck 17 ______________________________ 2 Article entitled: Do criminals go to the 31 hospital when they are shot? DEPOSITION OF: GARY KLECK 3 Report entitled: Firearm Violence, 37 1993-2011 4 Article entitle: Trends in Nonfatal and 40 TAKEN AT INSTANCE OF: The Defendant Fatal Firearm-Related Injury Rates in the United States, 1985-1995 5 Article entitled: Policy Lessons from 62 Recent Gun Control Research DATE: October 25, 2013 6 Article entitled: Impact of handgun types 73 on gun assault outcomes: a comparison of gun assaults involving semiautomatic pistols and TIME: Commenced at 8:07 a.m. revolvers Concluded at 11:46 a.m. 7 Article entitled: The Case for Enhanced 80 Data Collection of Gun Type 8 Article entitled: Mass Shootings in the 100 LOCATION: 2894 Remington Green Lane United States Involving High-Capacity Ammunition Tallahassee, Florida Magazines 9 Spokane County Sheriff's Office Report of 105 Investigation REPORTED BY: L. DANIELLE FREEZE 10 Article on North Hollywood shootout 107 Certified Realtime Reporter 11 Article entitled: Victim Resistance and 146 [email protected] Offender Weapon Effects in Robbery ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 2894 REMINGTON GREEN LANE TALLAHASSEE, FL 32308 850.878.2221 [email protected] CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER 148 ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 2 4 APPEARANCES: 1 STIPULATIONS 2 The following deposition of GARY KLECK REPRESENTING PLAINTIFFS: 3 was taken on oral examination, pursuant to notice, for 4 purposes of discovery, and for use as evidence, and for MARC F. COLIN, ESQUIRE [email protected] 5 other uses and purposes as may be permitted by the BRUNO, COLIN, JEWELL & LOWE, P.C. Suite 3100, 1999 Broadway 6 applicable and governing rules. Reading and signing is Denver, Colorado 80202 303.831.1099 7 not waived. 8 * * * REPRESENTING DEFENDANT: 9 THE COURT REPORTER: Do you swear or affirm 10 to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing MATTHEW D. GROVE, ESQUIRE [email protected] 11 but the truth? COLORADO DEPARTMENT OF LAW 1300 Broadway, 6th Floor 12 THE WITNESS: I do. Denver, Colorado 80203 720.508.6157 13 Thereupon, 14 was called as a witness, having been first duly sworn, 15 was examined and testified as follows: 16 DIRECT EXAMINATION 17 BY MR. GROVE: 18 Q Good morning, Dr. Kleck. My name is Matthew 19 Grove. I'm an assistant attorney general for the state 20 of Colorado. I'm representing the governor in case 21 No. 13-cv-1300, which is captioned Cook et al. v. 22 Hickenlooper. 23 You've submitted an expert report, a 24 supplemented expert report and a rebuttal expert report 25 in that case; correct? ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 5 7 1 A Yes. 1 criminal is, what a criminal isn't? 2 Q And you've been deposed before; right? 2 A Yeah. Although, I'm not prepared to right now. 3 A Yes. 3 I wasn't alerted that that would be a topic of the 4 Q Any questions about how it works? 4 deposition. But yeah, given time, I certainly could. 5 A No. 5 Q There's nothing, there's no like seminal work? 6 Q And I just need to make sure you're not -- are 6 I'm just curious. 7 you taking any medications that would affect your ability 7 A No, I don't think so. 8 to understand and answer my questions today? 8 Q Are most crimes -- would you say the majority 9 A No. 9 of crimes are crimes of opportunity or are they crimes 10 Q Are you suffering from any medical conditions 10 that are well-planned out? 11 that would affect your ability to understand and answer 11 MR. COLIN: Foundation. Go ahead. 12 questions? 12 A Well, it would, of course, depend on the type 13 A No. 13 of crime you are talking about. White collar or business 14 Q What's your field of expertise? 14 crime, for example, is almost invariably planned. It's 15 A Criminology. 15 as planned as noncriminal business behavior and business 16 Q I've always been fascinated by criminology, 16 decisions. 17 frankly, so this is going to be interesting. 17 Some violent behavior is planned. Mass 18 How would you describe the discipline? 18 killings are almost invariably planned and not only 19 A The scientific study of the causes and 19 planned but often for very long periods of time. A 20 consequences of criminal behavior and the way society 20 great deal of other violence, more ordinary violence, 21 reacts to it. 21 with just a single victim, is impulsive and, therefore, 22 Q So it's fair to say that you study criminals 22 unplanned. And that's probably more common. It would 23 and what they do? 23 be the more numerous kind of violent crime. 24 A Yes. 24 Robbery, on the other hand, it's -- somebody 25 Q How do you define what a criminal is? 25 may have a kind of predisposition to rob, but which ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 6 8 1 A It's a legalistic definition. Lots of things 1 target they rob is a function of opportunity. You 2 are disapproved of or immoral, but if it's a violation of 2 know, they come across a liquor store where they happen 3 criminal law, that's a crime and a person who does that 3 to be just a customer but they realize they're the only 4 is a criminal. More informally, though, we usually use 4 person in the store, it's late at night; there's only 5 the term "criminal" to refer to people who commit more 5 one clerk working there, there's lots of cash in the 6 serious crimes or commit crimes repetitively. 6 cash register and then it becomes a robbery. 7 Q So when does somebody cross the line, to you, 7 It required both preexisting disposition plus 8 between being an ordinary citizen and a criminal? 8 opportunity for the crime to occur. 9 A Again, technically, legally, the only crossing 9 BY MR. GROVE: 10 over point is when a person is convicted of a crime. But 10 Q Do people who engage in that sort of activity, 11 on the other hand, criminologists don't really focus on 11 an opportunistic crime where they walk into a liquor 12 that legal distinction. 12 store or something like that, do they typically walk 13 People don't have any one distinct point 13 around with whatever weapon they're likely to use in 14 where they cross over; rather, they gradually become 14 order to effect that robbery? 15 more criminal as they do more crimes, as it becomes 15 MR. COLIN: Objection: Foundation, go ahead. 16 more of a frequent activity. 16 THE WITNESS: Could you rephrase the 17 Q So I'm just trying to tease out exactly what 17 question? I don't understand it as you stated it. 18 the line is or if there is a line at all. Someone who 18 BY MR. GROVE: 19 commits crimes and then stops for three or four months, 19 Q Do people who are predisposed to committing 20 is that person still a criminal in a criminologist's 20 armed robberies walk out the door with the weapon that 21 view? 21 they intend to use for that robbery? 22 A There is no clear cut yes or no answer to that. 22 A Sometimes they do, yeah. Sometimes they 23 The more crimes you do, the more criminal you are. 23 habitually carry a firearm primarily for reasons of self 24 Q Are there any papers that you can point me to 24 protection, and then when they come across an opportunity 25 in the criminological literature that discuss what a 25 to commit a crime they hadn't planned when they went out ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 9 11 1 the door, in a sense, having the gun was planned because 1 you looked for a record across the entire United 2 they did it every day. It was part of a habitual 2 States. 3 behavior, and the robbery wasn't planned. 3 Q Is the mobility of people with criminal records 4 In other cases, they have a target in mind. 4 from state to state, does that vary from the general 5 They're going out to commit a robbery in a particular 5 population? 6 place at a particular time, in which case they do bring 6 A Yes, criminals are more mobile. 7 the gun with them for that specific purpose. 7 Q I'm not going to pull out your résumé because 8 Q You mentioned self protection. Are criminals 8 it's really long. But I do have a couple of questions 9 more likely than ordinary citizens to need to carry a 9 about it. 10 weapon for self protection? 10 As I was going through it, I noticed that 11 A Yes. 11 there are some articles -- and forgive my ignorance -- 12 Q Why is that? 12 that you mentioned are in peer-reviewed journals and 13 A They're victimized more often.
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