WALLER: This interview is taking place on 09-15-83, at 10~10 a.m., and the interview is with JERALYNN SUE THARALDSON. Your date of birth Jeri? H () JERALYNN: 07-20-61. ~ '# WALLER: Where do you live now?
JERALYNN: 3824 Grand Avenue.
WALLER: And your telephone number?
JERALYNN: 624-2280
WALLER: And this interview is being conducted by Lt. Waller concerning the death investigation of Sally Tharaldson and Virgil La Panta. Now as I said when we talked briefly before, turning the tape recorder on, you were interviewed by Sgt. Hall?
JERALYNN: Yes
WALLER: A short time after your Mother's disappearance?
JERALYNN: Yes
WALLER: And what we are going to do here is go over the in formation that you provided at that time, and also I am going to ask you some other questions.
JERALYNN: Yes
WALLER: And you are here on your own, correct?
JERALYNN: Yes
WALLER: I understand that you are the natural daughter of both Jerry and SallY?
JERALYNN: Yes
WALLER: Are there any other children that are?
JERALYNN: The four boys, no.
WALLER: Okay, they were Sally's children by a previous marriage. Is that correct?
JERALYNN: Yes
WALLER: And that includes Terry, Tommy, e_ ..... ~~._._._'I!.
JERALYNN: Timmy.
-1 WALLER: Timmy,
JERALYNN: Tony.
WALLER: And Tony, okay. Do you have any other sisters?
JERALYNN: No.
WALLER: And you were living with your parents ..
JERALYNN: Yes.
WALLER: At the time that your Mother disappeared?
JERALYNN: Yes.
WALLER: Now, can we go back to that time. Do you remember it fairly clearly?
JERALYNN: Not to 5 years ago, that's a while.
WALLER: Okay, but can you remember it pretty much what occurred that day?
JERALYNN: Yes.
WALLER: Okay, because when you were interviewed before you said that you had came home late?
JERALYNN: Late, the night before, yeah.
WALLER: What time did you get home that night?
JERALYNN: Gee, I must have got home, okay that would have been the following night before, I must have got home three, must have been about three o'clock in the morning, somewheres around there, I was late.
WALLER: And you were 17 at the time.
JERALYNN: Seventeen, yeah, at a party somewhere, suppose to be home and not on time, you know.
WALLER: And because of that you were grounded?
JERALYNN: Yeah, grounded the next day.
WALLER: Okay, was that a decision by both your Mother and Father that you do that?
JERALYNN: Yes. WALLER: And you also had to mow the lawn?
JERALYNN: I had to mow the lawn that day, and clean the basement, you know.
-2 WALLER: Now you were ~round the house?
JERALYNN: All day.
WALLER: All night?
JERALYNN: All night, right.
WALLER: And in your initial investigation interview you said that your Mother and Father left during the day for a period of time?
JERALYNN: Yes
WALLER: And you thought that they got home in the late after noon?
JERALYNN: Yes.
WALLER: Had they been drinking at all when they got home?
JERALYNN: Okay, when they got home, no, they hadn't been drinking, because I believe they had the house up at 912 then, up in Piedmont, that they were working on at the time, and my Dad had been up there working most of the day, and my Mother left to go pick him up. She missed him by picking him up because I think he was walking home. So they both got home, but later that evening that's when they were drinking, later on that evening.
WALLER: They hadn't had anything to drink before they came home then?
JERALYNN: No.
WALLER: Stopped anyplace?
JERALYNN: No.
WALLER: Do you know if they went back out, went to any bars?
JERALYNN: I, gees ....
WALLER: Together?
JERALYNN: NO F I think my Dad went out late now, yeah, he went out later that evening but roy Mother was home. I remember that she was home because it had to be about 2:00 o'clock in the morning when she tried to wake me up, see.
WALLER: Okay.
JERALYNN: She came up to the bedroom, tried to wake me up.
-3 JERALYNN: (Cont'd.) I was so tired from doing all the work that I did, I ~aid I wanted to go back to sleep, okay, so I went back to sleep. Woke up, I woke up early the next morning because I remember I went downstairs, my Dad was laying on the couch sleeping, looked around, we had my brother's dog there, Gretchen, at the time, a German shepard dog. Okay, she wasn't there, looked outside the window, the car wasn't there, checked the house, she wasn't there, I woke my Dad up, and he said he didn't know. So that's when we continued to start looking for her around.
WALLER: Okay.
JERALYNN: See, because she had done that before.
WALLER: How long had she been long in the past when she left?
JERALYNN: Oh, I'd say maybe a day at the most, if even a day. She'd always call.
WALLER: Overnight?
JERALYNN: Not really over night, maybe two, three o'clock in the morning.
WALLER: Okay.
JERALYNN: Something like that.
WALLER: Had that been when she was drinking?
JERALYNN: Yes.
WALLER: Did you know where she was on those occasions?
JERALYNN: Okay, one time I think she was up in Floodwood in a hotel room by herself.
WALLER: How did she get up there?
JERALYNN: She drove, she had the car, she drove up there, and that's about the only time she ever went actually away. I think another time was maybe over in a hotel over in Superior by herself, drinking.
WALLER: Is this when Jerry and her would have arguments?
JERALYNN: Not maybe really arguments 9 she'd just do that. See, she drank quite heavily actually. When she drank, she drank, you know, wasn't sociable. WALLER: When she drank, what would stop her from drinking?
-4 JERALYNN: What do you mean?
WALLER: What would cause her to stop drinking?
JERA:LYNN: What would cause her to stop drinking? Well, wake up the next morning, and just not drink, you know.
WALLER: Okay, so she'd pass our or go to sleep?
JERALYNN: Yes.
WALLER: And would she start up the next morning?
JERALYNN: No, sometimes, sometimes she wculd, but see I was going to, I was in school then, and so when she'd get up in the morning, you know, we'd eat breakfast, whatever, I'd get ready and go to school, I usually come home for lunch around noon, you know, so on and etc., she'd make dinner, you know watch TV, just you know.
WALLER: Did she drink every day?
JERALYNN: No.
WALLER: How about Jerry?
JERALYNN: No.
They drank, but never every day.
WALLER: Mostly on weekends?
JERALYNN: Oh, sometimes on weekends, yeah, Fridays, Saturdays. Maybe once in a while during the week, you know. It wasn't very often though that they drank.
WALLER: But when your Mother drank .she didn't stop until she fell asleep or passed out?
JERALYNN: Right, well no, not exactly fell asleep, but passed because she could drink, and she could drink a lot.
WALLER: What's a lot?
JERALYNN: Well, I'd say a quart.
WALLER: By herself?
JERALYNN: Yes.
WALLER: Now that evening you said, when you were interviewed before, that your Dad had gone over to Superior to get a quart of whiskey, around 6:30,7:00 o'clock.
JERA,LYNN: Okay, that must be when they came home then, after that.
-5 JERALYNN: (Cont1d.) ·If that's what I said, that had to be back then see, it's just been such a long time that I don't remember. I'm sure that's probably when they started having a few drinks, well it must have been about that time then.
WALLER: How Were they getting along?
JERALYNN: How were they?
WALLER: Getting along?
JERALYNN: They were getting along fine, Actually, you know, I don1t know if other people have said they had a rocky marriage, but it wasn't really. No worse than anybody~alaBsmarriage, you know. He's always real good to her, you know, so.
WALLER: The reason I am asking this because she had told Mrs. Beaudin that she was going to leave your Dad that early morning, okay?
JERALYNN: Okay, now I knew.....
WALLER: And she was going to take you with.
JERALYNN: Oh, really?
WALLER: Yeah.
JERALYNN: Now, she hadn't been drinking that morning she told me that though.
WALLER: NO, no, when I say early morning I mean the early morning when she come up '00 wake you up.
JERALYNN: Okay.
WALLER: Okay, when she was drunk.
JERALYNN: Yes.
WALLER: And that's why I'm asking how they were getting along to see why she'd take off like that? .
JERALYNN: Yes
WALLER: Because wasn't it unusual that she'd do this?
JERALYNN: That she would take off?
WALLER: Yes. JERALYNN: Oh yeah.
WALLER: Now let me go back a little bit.
-6 JERALYNN: Okay.
WALLER: Now after your Dad got back with the bottles, do you remember that they called you downstairs about eight or nine o'clock, and you had a drink with them? JERALYNN: It's possible. I know he was up in my room a lot that day too.
WALLER: I suppose things were kind of strained between the three of you?
JERALYNN: Yeah.
WALLER: How's that? That's what you said, that you had been up in your room. Do you remember what their state of intoxication was when you went down and had a drink with them about eight or nine o'clock?
JERALYNN: I would say they were still fine, as I said they could drink a lot back then, you know.
WALLER: Do you remember that your Dad was gonna go out that night?
JERALYNN: Yeah, and he went in the house with the guy from, Bodin, right, Jerry Bodin?
WALLER: Bob.
JERALYNN: Bob, whatever his name is. Okay, I remember something to that fact too.
WALLER: Did you see Bodin that night come there?
JERALYNN: I don't think so.
WALLER: When did you find out that he'd gone out with Beaudin? Did you know before he went or did you find out after the fact, the next day?
JERALYNN: I might have know he went out that night, I can't remember for sure, but I know that he had the next morning when I woke him up.
WALLER: Were they close friends?
JERALYNN: I wouldn't know.
WALLER: Did your Dad go out often? JERALYNN: No, when they went out they either always went out together or they never went out.
-7 WALLER: Do you know what the occasion was that held go out then?
JERALYNN: I imagine he had a few beers and wanted to go out or something, you know, I don't know.
WALLER: But you don't recall any strain between the two of them that night? JERALYNN: No.
WALLER: Did they take sides, either side with you on coming home late?
JERALYNN: Well both of them, I was suppose to come home, and I was suppose to be on time. I had done that a couple other times before that too. Or I should have called or something like that. That was the way it was. Just because they were worried about me.
WALLER: So it wasn't a situation of one siding with you, and one wanting to punish you, where there is an argument between them?
JERALYNN: No, no.
WALLER: Now, I talk to, you know, some other people. JERALYNN: Yes
WALLER: One of your brothers.
JERALYNN: Which?
WALLER: Tommy.
JERALYNN: Tommy?
WALLER: Yeah, and I was told that, and also your cousin, that when your Mother would drink, she would become argu mentive sometimes.
ERALYNN: Yes
WALLER: Is that true.
JERALYNN: Oh, I said she didn't drink to be sociable, you know. When she drank, she drank, either to get drunk, you know. See, it's hard for me though because me and my Mom were like this, see. As with the boys, Tommy, we haven't seen him, he wasn't real close with the family after his wedding, which was back years ago, but never argumentive with me, you know. WALLER: And that was because his wife had a child that was a melato by a previous relationship?
-8 JERALYNN: Yes, and there was a little trouble at his wedding reception back a few years ago.
WALLER: With the inlaws and the outlaws? JERALYN: Right, right.
WALLER: Now, how about your Mom and Dad when they drank. Did they argue then?
JERALYNN: Well, not in the years that we lived at the house. Before back when we owned the Truck Stop they argued a few times, but it's not that I recall when we lived and moved into 28th there.
WALLER: What was the reason for their arguments when they were at the Truck Stop?
JERALYNN: Oh gees, I don't know, argued over help. Maybe the thing that they argued about was Bernice, my Dad's sister. My Mother didn't care for Bernice very much, and he was helping them out money wise for a while, and she wasn't happy with that at all. She was pretty disgusted with that.
WALLER: Okay, so your Dad was supporting Bernice?
JERALYNN: Not supporting her, but more or less, you know.
WALLER: Helping her get by?
JERALYNN: Helping her get by.
WALLER: Okay.
JERALYNN: Which every time he helped her get by, she goes straight down the tubes anyways. Being like I said, they never really got along. Bernice might think so, but you know, I know.
WALLER: So you were the closest to your Mother; aside from your Dad?
JERALYNN: Yeah, the only daughter.
WALLER: Okay. How about the boys, who is the closest to your Mom?
JERALYNN: Oh gees, well Tony was locked up at the time, so him and her were pretty close. She went down and seen him a few times when he was in there before she disappeared. Let me see, Terry, well both Terry and T~mmy actually because they just had the grandkids, Jenny and Da~~is(ph), they were young at the time, and she really loved her grandkids, you know, stuff like that,
-9 JERALYNN: (Cont'd.) but of the boys I couldn't really say which one is the closest.
WALLER: What was your Mom wearing for jewelry that night?
JERALYNN: Well, let me see, she had the watch on with the ItS"~ diamond, "Til diamond on it, wristband watch, diamond necklace.
WALLER: Okay, diamond necklace now, can you describe it to me?
JERALYNN: Yes. See this chain I have on right here?
WALLER: Yeah.
JERALYNN: Something like that with little loops. Same kind of prong setting like this, but only a bigger diamond.
WALLER: How big a diamond?
JERALYNN: 2~ - 3 carat.
WALLER: A solitare diamond on a gold pendant?
JERALYNN: Right, solitary diamond, and also her, she had a snake ring, silver snake ring that my Dad had made back years ago. It was a silver snake, and I believe it had a pearl or maybe an emerald in it. And then she also had her wedding band on, must have been a 3~ carat diamond solitare, with I think a plain band with it. She might not even have a band on it, I'm not sure about that, but that's it. No earrings, so she didn't have pierced ears.
WALLER: She didn't have pierced ears?
JERALYNN: No.
WALLER: And those items are missing?
JERALYNN: I have no idea, you didn't find them?
WALLER: They are not in the car.
JERALYNN: They are not in the car?
WALLER: No.
JERALYNN: No where to be found?
WALLER: No.
JERALYNf1 : Well then they are missing, because she never took her jewelry off.
-10 WALLER: That's one of things that, you know, concerns B$, you know, that the necklace is not there.
JERALYNN: Well, could that stuff be lost somewhere? You know, could it be sitting down there as long as it did, the car, you know,
WALLER: The necklace should be there.
JERALYNN: The necklace should be th~re.
WALLER: The necklace should have been on your Mother's body.
JERALYNN: Okay, well, she should have had it on.
WALLER: Quite frankly another thing that concerns us most Jeri is that there was a large rock in the car,
JERALYNN: Yes.
WALLER: We'll talk about those things, you know, a little later on, but I want to cover some of this other. Now you said that in your initial interview that you had gone up to bed about nine or ten. Is that right? JERALYNN: Yes.
WALLER: And at the time that you went up they weren't drunk?
JERALYNN: No.
WALLER: Was there anybody else there at the time?
JERALYNN: Nobody.
WALLER: Now you reroembe~ your Morn coming up, and you said sometime around two?
JERALYNN; Yes
WALLER: Okay, initially you thought it was closer to three?
JERALYNN: Yeah, it had to be right around there because I had been sleeping awhile.
WALLER: Between two and three?
JERALYNN: Yes,
WALLER: Okay, was she drunk then? JERALYNN: Well I imagine she had to be,
WALLER: Okay, but donlt imagine, if you know.
-11 JERALYNN: I cannot say it positively or not.
WALLER: Okay.
JERALYNN: Whether or not she was. If she had been home by herself, I'm sure she con tinued to drink, and if she didn't, then she had to be, but see I didn't wake up long enough, where I should have, you know r to say for sure.
WALLER: Do you remember what she said to you?
JERALYNN: Well, she use to call me baby, and I remember she woke me up and said something to me, I don't even remember what it was, and I said, "Mom, I'm really tired", I fell back to sleep, and that was it. Okay, she also tried calling Terry and Timmy too.
WALLER: She did?
JERALYNN: Yes, the same night.
WALLER: Did she speak with either one of them?
JERALYNN: She spoke with both of them?
WALLER: Do you remember what that conversation was about?
JERALYNN: Have no idea. Timmy just said she called, and Terry too, and they more or less, the same thing, they were in bed sleeping, you know.
WALLER: But your Dad didn't usually go out alone?
JERALYNN: What?
WALLER: Your Dad didn't usually go out alone?
JERALYNN: No.
WALLER: Has he ever said why he went out that night alone, told you?
JERALYNN: He wasn't alone when he went out.
WALLER: I mean without your Mother. You said that he usually goes out with your Mother.
JERALYN: Yes, I don't know why it was.
WALLER: Has he ever told you that they had argued?
JERALYNN: Oh, I know they've argued.
WALLER: Okay, but that night?
-12 JERALYNNj No.
WALLER: So now the next morning you get up about nine o'clock, correct?
JERALYNN: Yes, it may have been earlier.
WALLER: Pardon me.
JERALYNN: I'm not sure exactly on the ti~e.
WALLER: Okay, and your Dad1s sleeping on the couch?
JERALYNN: Yes.,
WALLER: Now you indicated that you went and checked in the bedroom, and the bed was wrinkled. What do you mean wrinkled?
JERALYNN: Like .maybe somebody had been laying on it, but not slept in.
WALLER; Okay, in other words, the sheet, and the blankets and the spread were pulled up, and there were wrinkles, but they weren't pulled open like somebody had slept there? .
JERALYNN: Right, right, right.
WALLER: Okay, and ¥ou woke your Dad up?
JER,ALYNN: Yes.
WALLER: Did you ask him where your Mother was?
JERALYNN: Yes,
WALLER: Okay, what did he say?
JERALYNN: He didn I. t know. He thought she was there. He said, PNo, she1s not bere P.
WALLER: Now the car that she had at the ti~e, You have the Toronado, what other car did you have?
JEAALYNN: Do I have?
WALLER: The family.
JERALYNN: Well they just had one car, I had .my one car. I had a 172 Buick La Sabre at the ti~e, the little one, and they just ha.d the Toronado at the time. WALLER: Who had keys to your car?
-13 JERALYNN: Me.
WALLER: Just you?
JERALYNN: Yes.
WALLER: Jerry didn't have any, and Sally didn't have any?
JERALYNN: No.
WALLER: How many sets of keys were there to your Mother's car?
JERALYNN: They had two sets of keys, she had a set of keys, and he had a set of keys.
WALLER: Now what did your Mother usually carry in her purse?
JERALYNN: In her purse she use to carry her checkbook, driver's license, credit cards, makeup, not much else. She'd carry maybe a few roller or something in her purse for her hair. That's mainly about it.
WALLER: Did she carry any large amount of cash?
JERALYNN: Rarely, rarely.
WALLER: Do you remember what her keys were kept on?
JERALYNN: I think she might have had a "s" keyring at the time.
WALLER: What do you mean "S"?
JERALYNN: For her name, there's an "s" Sally.
WALLER: Okay, what type of material was the "s" on?
JERALYNN: I think it was more or less a metal, if I remember right.
WALLER: How big?
JERALYNN: Oh maybe that big.
WALLER: About 3 inches?
JERALYNN: Yes.
WALLER: Was the "S~ on a flat background or was it a piece of metal in the shape of an "S"?
JERALYNN: I don't know. WALLER: So, - you're not certain what it was on?
-14 JERALYNN: No, it's hard to remember back that long.
WALLER: Did she carry anything else in her purse?
JERALYNN: No, not that I know of.
WALLER: Now according to your cousin, your Mother called and wanted to go to the Seaway to get a bottle from Virgil. Okay, did you know Virgil?
JERALYNN: Yes.
WALLER: How did you know him?
JERALYNN: From when I use to work in the Truck stop. My Dad use to have a truck stop.
WALLER: He was a customer?
JERALYNN: Yes.
WALLER: Had Virgil ever been to your house?
JERALYNN: I believe so.
WALLER: How many times?
JERALYNN: Maybe twice I can remember.
WALLER: When was the most recent time in relationship to this?
JERALYNN: It had to be months and months to when that happened.
WALLER: Do you remember what the occasion for his visits were?
JERALYNN: No. I knew that they had bought booze from him. I know supposedly he had got booze off the ships and he'd sell bottles real cheap, but as far as her liking him, I never liked him and neither did my Mother, I know that.
WALLER: How do you know that?
JERALYNN: Because she told mer we know. He use to corne to the Truck Stop, and he was just always drunk or real ishy to me. I don't know if he was on some kind of drugs or what too.
WALLER: What do you mean real ishy?
JERALYNN: Real, well, he'd be real drunk and real sloppy, and talk real stupid, you know.
WALLER: Suggestive to women, you mean?
-15 JERALYNN: Yes.
WALLER: Did he ever hit on you?
JERALYNN: Well, I don't know, I don't think so.
WALLER: Did you ever see him hit on your Mother?
JERALYNN: No, she didn't like him though.
WALLER: And she told 'you that?
JERALYNN: Yes.
WALLER: And it was because he was sloppy?
JERALYNN: Yeah, he was just more or less just a pig really.
WALLER: Who was he closest to?
JERALYNN: Between my Mother and my Dad, ltd say both. He knew them both just as well.
WALLER: What did your Dad think of him?
JERALYNN: Well, I actually don't know what he thought of him. I don't think I've ever even asked him that. He knew him just, you know, from the Truck Stop I know that.
WALLER: Now you said that your Mother had called the police to take Virgil out of the restaurant at some time~ Do you recall that?
JERALYNN: I think he ~ight have been passed out on the counter or something at night again, because see we use to work together in the Truck Stop too, I'd work the same shift with my Mom, see, and that might have been when she called the cops on him to take him out. I can't say exactly for sure on that either, but like I said when he would come in he would be drunk, more obnoxious, and then he~d probably pass out or some thing on the couter. You know, more or less something like that.
WALLER: Do you know of any women that associated with Virgil?
JERALYNN: With Virgil?
WALLER: Yes.
JERALYNN: I don~t know none, none, none at all. WALLER: Do you remember mentioning to the officers before that Bimbo would get girls for Virgil?
-16 JERALYNN: Supposedly no. The Hallgrens(ph) knew Virgil too. v~ALLER: Right.
JERALYNN: Okay, them girls would go over there a lot, okay his daughters, for what I don't know. If they went oyer there for booze. I know he sold pot too~ they could have went over there for pot too.
WALLER: How do you know he sold pot?
JERALYNN: I heard it many times, they ~ pot, they told me, you know.
WALLER: They smoked pot with Virgil?
JERALYNN: I'm sure they did. In fact I'm almost positive that they did.
WALLER: Do you know anything else that they were doing over there?
JERALYNN: At his hotel?
WALLER: Yes.
JERALYNN: I never went there, you know, I always stayed out of there. In fact I never hung around with them girls much either, because they are a lot different then I am. But I know that sometimes I think they'd get money from him, from Virgil.
WALLER: For what?
JERALYNN: I don't know. I don't know, but they use to have cash back then~ and I'm sure that's where they got it from, and I think he'd maybe buy them something every once in a while or, you know.
WALLER: Is what you~re saying to me that you ,think they were turning tricks with Virgil for money?
JERALYNN: I don't know that.
WALLER: Okay, do you know anybody that did?
JERALYNN: I was only 17 at the time.
WALLER: Okay, have you heard anything since? JERALYNN: No, but I know that they frequented there often
-17 JERALYNN: (Cont'd) because that's when Bernice use to have the Derby Diner, once in the West End at the time.
WALLER: How about Bimbo now, where does that come from? That Bimbo would get girls for ..
JERALYNN: Bimbo goes back to a long time with Tony and Terry, they grew up with Bimbo and Buckshot, etc., and Bimbo was always hustling, all the time, you know. Always hustling, all the time, you know. Always hanging out in the bars or playing pool all the time or shining shoes around in the West End, or you know, more or less that r and him doing that he could have, you know, like I say I don't know.
WALLER: That he pimped for Virgil?
JERALYNN: Possibly.
WALLER: Okay, so you're just guessing, you don't know that for sure.
JERALYNN: Yes.
WALLER: Do you know if your Mother ever went down and got a bottle from Virgil before?
JERALYNN: I think that they never went down there, I think he always brang it to them.
WALLER: Were you ever there when he brought a bottle to them?
JERALYNN: I think I was once. See now, I can't remember for sure, I just try to think back, maybe flashbacks then, but at the house and I believe so. He's been there before with them, because that had to be the couple times that I've seen him was for that reason.
WALLER: They couldn't get a bottle some place else because the liquor stores were closed?
JERALYNN: Right, right.
WALLER: The bars were closed?
JERALYNN: Right, and he had always h~d booze in his room.
WALLER: And what you heard, is he got it off the ships?
JERALYNN: Right, stole it off the ships and sold it for real cheap, WALLER: You heard that he sells drugs, and you heard that, but ynu nevervbought any from hif()?
-18 JERALYNN: Yes.
WALLER: YOUdon1t know of any women that associated with him by name?
JERALYNN: I ~ust never see htm with any women.
WALLER: Was Lynn Burton living with you at the time?
JERALYNN: No.
WALLER: She wasn't?
JERALYNN: No.
WALLER: Did you know Lynn Bu~ton at the ti~e?
JERALYNN: Yes, married to my sister-in-law, Laurie.
WALLER: You're sister~in-law.
JERALYNN: Terry's ex-wife, Laurie.
WALLER: Okay. Was she a friend of both your Father and Mother?
JERALYNN: She had met them both but I think once or twice it was at the house in Superior when we were re-doing it over there, pulling lath and stuff off the walls. She cqrne over and helped once with Laurie.
WALLER: Your Father is going with her now?
JERALYNN: Yes.
WALLER: How long has he been going with her?
JERALYNN: TWo, three years.
WALLER: Who were your parents talking about that night?
JERALYNN: You see, I wasn't around that much downstairs that night, that's the whole thing. I stayed up in my room quite a bi't',' so.
WALLER: See what t~oubles us, okay, I1ll be frank with you, are these facts. Jer~y usually doesn't go out without Sally.
JERALYNN: Yes
WALLER: That night he goes out. JERALYNN: Yes.
WALLER: Sally wouldn1t go anyplace without Virgil~
-19 JERALYNN: No.
WALLER: But yet they're down there.
JERALYNN: Yes, which .had to( bE! the tllfug, that she went down to get a bottle from him.
WALLER: But how did they get down there? How did they get down in the bay? Why would they be down there?
JERALYNN: Well, this is how I got it figured. I figured she went down to get a bottle. Either that, she was looking for my Dad. She maybe took Virgil, or somebody to ride with her, headed over towards Superior. Why they went down that way I don't know. Maybe he didn't have any booze, and they went back to the ship to see if he could get some, you know. That's the only reasons I could think of why they would be down there.
WALLER: But at the same time you initially told the officers that you didn't think your Mother would willinglY go anyplace with Virgil? JERALYNN: No.
WALLER: Sober?
JERALYNN: Sober, no.
WALLER: How about drunk?
JERALYNN: Drunk, possible, that's possible, sober never.
WALLER: I guess the other thing is the comment your Mother made to Mrs. Beaudin, you know, about leaving Jerry.
JERALYNN: Yes.
WALLER: Had they been at odds about anything?
JERALYNN: That!s the only thing that was the prbblem then.~as that she was mad because he was helping Bernice out, was the one thing. Maybe 912 had a little something to do with it, I don't know, because they were having so many problems up there or what, but that's it.
WALLER: When your parents did argue, what did they argue about? JERALYNN: What did they argue about. More or less back to the Same thing again, helping Bernice out because he helped her out so many times
-20 JERALYNN: (Contld.} and she more or less just screwed him over every time. She was suppose to pay back money, she never paid that back. That wasn't the big factor, they had plenty of money, you know.
WALLER: Yeah, they got the payoff f rom the f ire ~
JERALYNN: Right.
WALLER: Has that in both their names?
JERALYNN: Yes.
WALLER: The last question I had asked was if there was any damage to the Toronado prior to that evening and you said that it was brand new and there wasnlt any?
JERALYNN: No. '
WALLER: How long had they had that car, do you recall?
JERALYNN: Couldn I t have had it too long because we use to have the ? before that, so I'd say they'd maybe had that three months, three, four months, because I took it a couple weeks ago before that down to St. Cloud to see Tony. Okay, so I know there was no damage to the car at all.
WALLER: What kind of a driver was your Mother when she drank?
JERALYNN: Not a very good driver to begin with at all. She never liked to drive. r always drove most of the time when I was with her. vJALLER: Explain that to me about not being a good driver. What type of things would she do?
JERALYNN: Oh, she was real, real slow on the road, nervous when she was driving, she always veered off to the right. Always kept real close to the right side. Say if you're going over the High Bridge, she'd stick real close to the side, you know. I'd say, "Ma, you're getting too close, move back over this way.", you know. So she never drove much. My Dad either usually did the driving or when I was with her I drove, you know. She'd maybe drive up to get her hair done when she use to go out and get her hair done in West Duluth or you know, something like that, but never a long dista~ce at all.
WALLER: Would your Dad usually drive if they went out?
-21. JERALYNN: Yes.
WALLER: Now the next morning when you talked to your Dad, there was something about going over to Tim's~
JERALYNN: Timmy's house, yeah.
WALLER: What was that?
JERALYNN: Bets the one with the dog, Timmy.
WALLER: Okay, and the dog wasn't there that morning, right?
JERALYNN: No, the dog was there.
WALLER: Oh, the dog was there?
JERALYNN: See, I'm pretty sure the dog was there. wait a minute now because see Timmy only lives a little over a block and a half from the house, and when Gretchen would get outside sometimes she wouldn't be on a leach, she'd know where Timmy's house was, see because she lived there prior to that.
WALLER: Okay.
JERALYNN: So she knew how to get back there. I don' t reme.mber if she was there or not. Five years ago I would have remembered, but.
WALLER: But your Dad had been over to Timmy's to get the keys for the house?
JERALYNN: That night, yeah that's right.
WALLER: Tell me about that?
JERALYNN: Timmy just told me that, that he had come over to get the keys to get in the house.
WALLER: What time, do you remember? Didn't your Dad have keys to the house?
JERALYNN: Probably had keys but he didn't have them with him.
WALLER: Your Mother would have keys? JERALYNN: Yes.
WALLER: Would they be on the sa~e keychain as the car keys?
JERALYNN: Yes.
WALLER: Now when your Dad did get up, what did the two of you do as far as trying to find your Mother?
-22 JERALYNN: We went allover, by all the hotels, d0Wn.by Shopper's City, all around that way. Went allover, up as far as Two Harbors, up that way.
WALLER: Took your car?
JERALYNN: Yes. Me and Timmy looked, Terry looked, you know, everybody looked allover.
WALLER: When did you find out that Virgil was also gone?
JERALYNN: Gee, I don't know, maybe not until a couple days after, a day after.
WALLER: But Aunt Bernice says that she saw your Mom in front of the Seaway that night, during that morning.
JERALYNN: Yeah, that's right.
WALLER: Is that how you ,found out that they may be together?
JERALYNN: I don't think so. I think I didn't find out until after we called her in missing or something, a couple days after I must have ,found out. I didn't know right away, I knew that, because I thought she was gone by herself, see. WALLER: Yes.
JERALYNN: Because she hp,d done that befo,re.
WALLER: Now Tommy says he didntt know for two weeks that your Mom was missing.
JERALYNN: Two weeks?
WALLER: That's What he figured. He says he found out from Terry two weeks after. JER,A,LYNN: That ;night be.
WALLER: What was ¥Qur Dad~s fe~11ngs_aboQt this at the time? JERALYNN: The next day you mean? WALLER: Yes
JERALYNN: Well, he was worried.
WALLER: Did he have any idea of
JERALYNN: Maybe where she was you mean? WALLER: Yes.
JERALYNN: No, we more or less thought on the same line that
-23 JERALYNN: (Cont'd.) she had gone, got some bottles or some thing, went into a hotel room again. That's why we looked in the places that we did.
WALLER: How about after he finds out Virgil is gone too?
JERALYNN: I can't remember that.
WALLER: Do you know of anybody that would have wanted her hurt, Virgil and your Mother?
JERALYNN: No.
WALLER: No one at all? JERALYNN: No, she was well liked when she worked in the Truck Stop.
WALLER: When I told you before the things that bothered us about this, okay?
JERALYNN: Yes. vJALLER: And I think you'd pr0bably agree that they are kind of troublesome aren't they?
JERALYNN: What were you saying the things that bothered you before because he never went out alone?
WALLER: Yeah, that she tells J1rs. Bodu.Ii she's gonna leave him.
JERALYNN: I'm ~eally surprised at that now, see I've never heard th~t before~
WALLER; Okay.
JERALYNN; That just, she doesn't usually talk to people like that. Maybe she'called hex Mother or something, but I never knew anything to that affect at all.
WALLER: So you don't know of any disagreement O~ argument that they had that day?
JERALYNN: No.
WALLER: And the rock. JERALYNN: And the rock, yeah. Well the rock could come from anywhere, couldn't it down there?
WALLER: I don't think so. JERALYNN: COUldn't the car, being as smashed and banged up as it is?
-24 WALLER: But its all :si~t at the bottom th~e. See, the rock is wedged in the car, and then the fact that the necklace isn't on your Mom.
JER,ALYNN: How about her. diamonds on her hands, her watch, nothing,
WALLER: None of them, no identification in what's left of the purse,
JERALYNN: None?
WALLER: None,
JER.,ALYNN: What's left of the purse, ~nything?
WALLER: Well, it's disintegrated somewhat, you know, the plastic type materials, some of them disintegrate, like stitch ing and that, but nothing.
JERA,LYNN: You know, and I can~t understand it, because she'd have her jewelry on, she never took it off, so I know that.
WALLER: You know, and that's troublesome, you know, that's why we are looking at it closely, and we haven't decided yet what the situation is. We haven't got all the rsults from the laboratory results back yet, but there is no question in our mind that they were missing, you know, for the entire five years.
JERALYNN: Well, it had to happen that night,
WALLER: Ye~h, that's right,
JERALYNN: That ~'s why they Vanished as quick as they did, and I figured that out too,
WALLER: What does your Dad feel happen~d?
JERALYNN: Probably as I did, we didn't know/what the hell happened. You know you can assume, and assume, and aSsume, and guess, and guess, and guess, and you don't know. I still don't know, you know. See now, I figured either, see I couldn't see the thing is, if she would have left town, and say if she would have maybe went to another state or something, got herself a job, etc., sort of living, but see, with the kids, she'd have to call see, and she'd have to get a hold of me because she was like that, you know, She COUldn't stay away without calling. But I didn't know, you know, I thought. She always wanted to go to Hawaii see, as long as I can remember we always talked, Well if she \s gonna go there some day, I said, "Yea.h I'm gonna go there some day. II
-2§ JERALYNN: (Cont' d.) So I was leaving two days prior to this to Hawaii, on a trip, and I said to my Dad, "Well maybe I'll see Ma over there~\I, you know, you never know. WALLER: Two days prior to? JERALYNN: To this, see I was leaving Wednesday, and this happened on a Monday. I was all set to go, had my plane tickets, and everything ready to roll. WALLER: Who were you going with? JERALYNN: Barb Watczak, one of my girlfriends. WALLER: Did you go down to Iron River to your Mom's aunts with your Dad that day? JERALYNN: No, I stayed home to answer the phone. WALLER: You remember him going down there?
JERALYNN: Yes~ WALLER: Do you remember who your Dad says they ran into when they were out that night, him and Beaudin?
JERALYNN: No.
WALLER: Do you remember him mentioning Jim Zaller(ph)?
JERALYNN: Oh, I know Jim Zaller. I didn't know they ran into him that night, but I've known him for years.
WALLER: Did he mention seein~ Bernice anq Jerry? JERALYNN: Bernice and Jerry Hallgren? Not that I recall, no. In fact I don't think I even asked him who he seen that night or whatever happened that night. WALLER: You went up to Bemidji also, didn't you?
JERALYNN: To my ~randma's? WALLER: Looking for your Mom? JERALYNN: My Dad did, I don't think I went. See, I had to stay at home too. See, I went for a while, he'd go for ~ while, Terry went, Timmy went, and my sister-in-la~ Laurie,came down and we stayed home to answer the
-26 JERALYNN: (Cont'd.) phone in case she called. See, because when she went places, she'd always call and say, "Well, I'm up here.", you know, "Come get me. "
WALLER: Is there anything else that you can add to this Jeri that I might have missed? Anything that you think we should be looking at that we're not?
JERALYNN: Looking for you mean?
WALLER: Looking at or for or anybody we should be talking to?
JERALYNN: I don't know.
WALLER: Why didn't you want to talk to us?
JERALYNN: You called my house, I wasn't even home. See, I was on vacation the last few days. So you had called what night. You called on a Friday night. The girls were there drinking. They told me to call, Detective Campbell called, and my girlfriend, Judy, was there, and my roommate, Gail, told me about this, and she thought it was a joke, that somebody was calling.
WALLER: Oh.
JERALYNN: See, I wasn't home, so then I went to, let me see, that Saturday morning I hadn't stayed home, 1eft Saturday morning for the Cities. Went to the Renaissance, went to the State Fair Sunday, went to the new Zoo on Monday, so I didn't get back late till Monday night. And I went back to work, no, yeah Monday night, and I was on vacation ,still.
WALLER: They said, "We don't want to talk to you, please don't call again."
JERALYNN: That was Gail, see she told me that after, after she told me you had called.
WALLER: Because then we thought, well, we'll have to get a Grand Jury Subpoena, you know. Where do you work?
JERALYNN: Pickwick.
WALLER: How long have you been there?
JERALYNN: About 2~ years.
WALLER: As a waitress?
-27 JERALYNN: Yes.
~vALLER: Allright, I don't have any other questions. I'd just like you to just call if something comes to mind that we might not have covered.
JERALYNN: Yes.
WALLER: Or if you hear anything else.
JERALYNN: Okay, I'm gonna use your phone real quick here.
WALLER: We are going to conclude this interview at 1052 hours. Thank you.
rh
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