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Home , Adam van Koeverden, Alain Therrien, Andy Fillmore, Annie Koutrakis, Bardish Chagger, Bob Bratina

43rd PARLIAMENT, 1st SESSION

Special Committee on the COVID-19 Pandemic EVIDENCE

NUMBER 019 Tuesday, June 9, 2020

Chair:

1

Special Committee on the COVID-19 Pandemic

Tuesday, June 9, 2020

● (1200) Mr. (—Ladysmith, GP): Thank you, [Translation] Madam Chair. The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès (Brossard— It's an honour to present a petition for the residents and con‐ Saint-Lambert, Lib.)): I now call this meeting to order. stituents of Nanaimo—Ladysmith.

Welcome to the 19th meeting of the Special Committee on the Yesterday was World Oceans Day. This petition calls upon the COVID-19 Pandemic. House of Commons to establish a permanent ban on crude oil [English] tankers on the west coast of to protect B.C.'s fisheries, tourism, coastal communities and the natural ecosystems forever. I remind all members that in order to avoid issues with sound, members participating in person should not also be connected to the Thank you. video conference. For those of you who are joining via video con‐ ference, I would like to remind you that when speaking you should The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès): Thank you very be on the same channel as the language you are speaking. much. [Translation] We now go to Mrs. Jansen. As usual, please address your remarks to the chair, and I will re‐ Mrs. (Cloverdale—Langley City, CPC): mind everyone that today's proceedings are televised. Thank you, Madam Chair.

We will now proceed to ministerial announcements. I'm pleased to rise today to table a petition concerning con‐ [English] science rights for palliative care providers, organizations and all health care professionals. The petitioners recognize that palliative I understand there are no ministerial announcements today, so we care and euthanasia are entirely separate practices, distinct legally, will go to presenting petitions. clinically and philosophically.

Mr. Genuis, you are on. They were compelled to call the government to action after the Mr. (Sherwood Park—Fort , Delta Hospice Society faced sanctions from Fraser Health for refus‐ CPC): Thank you very much, Madam Chair. ing to offer on-site euthanasia to their patients. This is expressly against the conscience of the hospice. I'm pleased to be presenting a petition in support of Bill S-204, currently before the Senate, or it will be once Parliament is able to Bill C-14, which legalized euthanasia, affirms that freedom of sit. It would make it a criminal offence for a person to go abroad to conscience and religion is still guaranteed in Canada. This petition receive an organ for which there has not been consent. It would also calls on the government to do a better job ensuring this is the case. create a mechanism by which someone could be deemed inadmissi‐ No person or organization should be compelled to act against its ble to Canada if they're involved in organ harvesting and traffick‐ own conscience in this country. ing. It seeks to respond to the horrific situation where organs have The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès): Thank you. been taken from political prisoners without their consent. In some cases, people from other countries have received those organs via I see no further petitions. I would like to remind members in the transplant. chamber that those who have not yet done so are asked to bring I commend this petition for the consideration of the committee. I their petitions to the table. know the petitioners are hoping to see this Parliament finally pass [Translation] legislation dealing with organ harvesting and trafficking. The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès): Thank you. We will now proceed to statements by members. We now go to the honourable member for Nanaimo—Ladysmith, The honourable Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Fi‐ Mr. Manly. nance has the floor. 2 COVI-19 June 9, 2020

● (1205) Even in a community like Châteauguay, which has always [English] opened its arms to newcomers, we've seen regrettable acts of injus‐ Mr. (, Lib.): With temperatures go‐ tice. There is hope, however: four young girls in our community, ing up and restrictions coming down, Nova Scotians are looking with the help of their parents and local police, successfully orga‐ forward to the summer. Though our communities feel a little differ‐ nized a peaceful, responsible and inclusive demonstration. They ent this year, there's no shortage of local activities to enjoy across were expecting 20 or so of their friends to show up this past Satur‐ the entire region. day, but more than 300 people of all colours came together in soli‐ darity to support the global Black Lives Matter movement. We are home to world-class beaches along Canada's warmest stretch of ocean on the Northumberland Strait. We also have access Each of us has a role to play in abolishing systemic racism. to the rugged terrain and white sand beaches of the Eastern Shore along the wild islands that dot the coast. I would like to thank Maribel, Marilou, Jessika and Audrey for We have great places and events that allow us to socialize while giving us an opportunity to express our support. practising physical distancing, like the new beer garden at the Sober Island brewery in Sheet Harbour, the community food forest [English] in Middle Musquodoboit or the Antigonight art festival in Antigo‐ nish. The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès): Ms. Gill. We have extraordinary trail systems to get outdoors along the East River and Musquodoboit River Valley, near the lighthouses at [Translation] Cape George and along Trenton Park and Arisaig Provincial Park. We're even going to be able to take in a movie at the soon-to-be- Mrs. Marilène Gill (Manicouagan, BQ): Madam Chair, so few reopened Highland Drive-In in Westville, so get your popcorn workers have access to employment insurance that, in the midst of ready. the COVID-19 crisis, the government had to come up with the Canada emergency response benefit, or CERB, to make up for its If I'm going to be stuck anywhere this summer, I'm glad it's at failings. That's why, today, I am speaking on behalf of the Mouve‐ home in . Join me in supporting our local businesses ment Action-Chômage, the Mouvement d'éducation populaire et and organizations so we can be tourists in our own backyard. Most d'action communautaire du Québec, the councils of the Confédéra‐ of all, be safe out there and enjoy the summer. tion des syndicats nationaux, chambers of commerce and first na‐ The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès): Mr. Morrison. tions communities in my region, on the north shore, and elsewhere in . I am also speaking for dozens of entrepreneurs, elected Mr. Rob Morrison (Kootenay—Columbia, CPC): Madam officials, band councils and worker advocacy groups, from Montre‐ Chair, every time we enter this House, I am reminded of my com‐ al to Blanc-Sablon. mitment to the constituents of Kootenay—Columbia and the mag‐ nitude of the role each of us plays in securing a future for our democratic institutions. All of them have written to the federal government today de‐ manding employment insurance reforms so that all workers have Collette Caron, a constituent in my riding, recently sent me a access to benefits. They are also calling for the five additional note that represents the overwhelming sentiment of our area. I will weeks for seasonal workers to be made permanent. read it. It states: Mr. Morrison, I would like to know why the Prime Minister participated in an event with thousands of people, where social distancing was not being practiced, That is vital not just for industries such as fisheries and tourism, and yet continues to postpone recalling parliament over COVID concerns. I but also for the cultural sector. The government must extend the would like to know if he understands that at his request and direction we have CERB for those workers who will not be going back to their old made enormous sacrifices to follow the rules. were not allowed to jobs anytime soon. They need assurance that they will have some‐ visit their dying loved ones, or hold funerals, and businesses have gone bankrupt. Many folks can’t pay their bills or rent and grad ceremonies and wed‐ thing coming in to help them through the year ahead, which must dings have been cancelled.... not turn into a long-drawn-out EI gap. Madam Chair, Mrs. Caron is correct. If an event with thousands of Canadians is health-safe for the Prime Minister, then bring the [English] voice of Canadians back to the House by reopening Parliament. The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès): Mr. Sheehan. The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès): Ms. Shanahan. [Translation] Mr. (Steveston—Richmond East, CPC): Madam Mrs. Brenda Shanahan (Châteauguay—Lacolle, Lib.): Chair, I have a point of order, please. I have been on the English Madam Chair, ever since the tragic murder of George Floyd, the channel, but unfortunately I was not able to listen to the translation Black Lives Matter protests have been multiplying, reminding us of the honourable member's speech just now. that police brutality and systemic racism against the black commu‐ nity exist. Now is the time to show our solidarity with our brothers The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès): There seems to and sisters of colour and to take a symbolic knee. have been an issue with the translation. June 9, 2020 COVI-19 3

[Translation] Mrs. Tamara Jansen: I recently got word that a long-term care facility in my riding was not going to receive Canada summer jobs Can we check whether the interpretation is coming through now? funding this year, after eight previous years of being approved. It's fixed. Mrs. Gill, you can repeat your statement. Considering the challenges they faced during COVID-19, that ● (1210) didn't make any sense to me, so I decided to do some digging. What Mrs. Marilène Gill: Madam Chair, so few workers have access I found out was absolutely appalling. It turns out that although I to employment insurance that, in the midst of the COVID-19 crisis, had prioritized senior care facilities as most in need of Canada sum‐ the government had to come up with the Canada emergency re‐ mer jobs funding, the national priorities of the current government sponse benefit, or CERB, to make up for its failings. That's why, to‐ have changed from previous years, and senior care homes are no day, I speak on behalf of the Mouvement Action-Chômage, the longer one of them. Mouvement d'éducation populaire et d'action communautaire du Québec, the councils of the Confédération des syndicats nationaux, chambers of commerce and first nations communities in my region, For me, long-term care homes are a 10 out of 10 priority, but this on the north shore, and elsewhere in Quebec. I am also speaking for government gives them only two out of 10 in their priority rank‐ dozens of entrepreneurs, elected officials, band councils and worker ings. They're right at the bottom of the list during a pandemic that advocacy groups, from to Blanc-Sablon. is having the most devastating impact in long-term care homes. All of them have written to the federal government today de‐ manding an overhaul of the employment insurance program so that all workers have access to benefits. They are also calling for the How are our seniors not a national priority? five additional weeks for the industry to be renewed. That is vital not just for industries such as fisheries and tourism, but also for the cultural sector, industries that have been hammered The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès): Ms. Khalid. because of the pandemic. They receive little, poor or no support. That's why the government must extend the CERB for those work‐ ers who will not be going back to their old jobs. We must make sure Ms. (Mississauga—Erin Mills, Lib.): Madam that they have something coming in to help them through the year Chair, municipalities provide the essential services we rely on ev‐ ahead, which must not turn into a long-drawn-out EI gap. ery day, like police, fire, paramedics. They provide equality-seek‐ ing services like housing, transit, community centres and senior [English] care. The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès): Mr. Sheehan. Mr. (Sault Ste. Marie, Lib.): Madam Chair, to mark Italian Heritage Month, I'm proud to tell you about the Ital‐ As our country fights the spread of COVID-19, municipalities ians in Sault Ste. Marie. face major shortfalls in financing these essential services. By law, they aren't allowed to run deficits and have had to lay off thousands Over 16,000 people in the Soo trace their ancestry to Italy, and of staff, and they contemplate deep service cuts to make ends meet. Italians own and operate countless beloved restaurants and busi‐ nesses across our community.

I know that Italians in the Soo have been hit particularly hard by Municipalities are also excellent incubators of economic growth, the COVID-19 pandemic. I feel deeply for the nonnas and the non‐ and reopening economies post-COVID in partnership with them is nos across my community who are hoping they can gather with an opportunity for us to build back better. their families again soon. I feel for the numerous Italian-owned businesses in the Soo, in‐ cluding the best Italian restaurants in Canada, that are suffering due At the federal level, we have provided $2.2 billion with the gas to the pandemic, but I can tell you that the Soo Italians are resilient relief fund and continue to try to build consensus among provinces people who are making a difference each and every day, like Mayor to partner with us on this path to recovery. I encourage our provin‐ Provenzano. cial leaders to take this opportunity to strengthen the vital building blocks of our country, our municipalities. I also want to highlight another special Italian Canadian from northern , Mr. Anthony Rota, the first-ever Italian Speaker of the House of Commons. I know he makes Italians in the Soo and Canada proud. Thank you, Madam Chair. Grazie e buona fortuna. The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès): Mrs. Jansen. The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès): Mr. Fillmore. 4 COVI-19 June 9, 2020

Mr. (Halifax, Lib.): On the northern tip of Hali‐ GST top-up for the poorest, as well as the OAS, GIS and disability fax sat Africville, a village founded by Black Loyalists, slaves freed tax credit to help the most vulnerable. after the War of 1812 and the American Revolutionary War. In 1960, in an egregious act of racism, Africville was abruptly erased from the map in the name of urban renewal. African Nova Scotians In these difficult times, perfection is elusive, but we are listening were evicted, and their homes were demolished. and responding to needs the best we can. These programs are the While my city carries the shame for what happened to Africville, ones that invest directly in individuals who, in a city like Hamilton, it was not an isolated incident in Canada, where racist policies, both number in the tens and hundreds of thousands. Their money goes implicit and explicit, have shaped the cities we live in today. directly into the local economy. This Sunday, I joined hundreds of Haligonians on the reclaimed grounds of Africville for a protest by prayer. It was a stark reminder Businesses struggling through this crisis rely on customers— that the injustices we fight today are built on generations of dis‐ criminatory policies. The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès): Mr. Shields. Today, I call on every member of this House to stand shoulder to shoulder, hand in hand, and together recommit ourselves to the work of naming and changing the ongoing trends of power and Mr. (Bow River, CPC): Thank you, Madam privilege that riddle our society and its institutions. Chair. Thank you, Madam Chair. ● (1215) The government wants us to debate and vote on $87 billion in The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès): Mr. Kurek. new spending next week in just a few hours. Most Canadians would Mr. (Battle River—Crowfoot, CPC): Thank spend longer deciding on a new TV. you, Madam Chair.

Today I send my congratulations and well wishes to each gradu‐ Even the opposition New Democrats have introduced ate from Battle River—Crowfoot. I am sure this is not the gradua‐ bills in the Alberta legislature, but the federal NDP just wants to get tion you expected when you started your final year of school this out of here. past September. However, it does not downplay your achievements. If anything, it displays your strength and resilience, something you should be proud of. I've heard from many constituents who think this is just plain These are tough times for all Canadians, and I commend the in‐ wrong. Many have lost jobs. Others have worked through the pan‐ novation and ingenuity of both students and faculty. Rural east cen‐ demic as essential workers. Far too many have fallen through the tral Alberta is an amazing place to grow up in, and I know you are cracks and could not qualify for government supports. They want ready for all that's to come. their representatives working in Parliament. They want their chal‐ lenges raised in Parliament and addressed. They don't want govern‐ For the dozens of public, Catholic and faith-based schools across ment run through order in council like the recent gun law. They Battle River—Crowfoot, the several Bible colleges, and the U of A want this government to be held accountable as hundreds of billions Augustana Campus, you are all a shining example of how Canadi‐ of dollars of their taxpayer money flows out of the door. ans, when we work together, can overcome adversity. On behalf of all the constituents of Battle River—Crowfoot, con‐ gratulations to the graduating class of 2020. May God bless you If the government truly wants to do a better job for Canadians, and all that's to come. Parliament just needs to work. The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès): Mr. Bratina. Mr. (Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, Lib.): In the The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès): Ms. Rood. coming days, I want to address the tragic death of George Floyd and its aftermath. Ms. (Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, CPC): Today, Madam Chair, I have prepared comments about my city, Madam Chair, I rise today to acknowledge the life and tragic pass‐ Hamilton, which, along with every other community in Canada, is ing of a truly inspiring and kind-natured woman, Joyce Thomas benefiting from the historic and unprecedented investments our Rood. government is making during the pandemic. Our response has put money into the pockets of Canadians. Over $42 billion was paid out to eight million workers through the Joyce was born and raised on the Kettle and Stony Point First CERB program, $9 billion in relief to students through the student Nation, where she was fostered and adopted by her mother, Flossie benefit and grant payments, $2 billion of targeted relief through the Sinopole. June 9, 2020 COVI-19 5

Joyce was proud to be an indigenous Canadian, proud of her peo‐ I will paraphrase Ms. Filiatrault, who put it best: the Théâtre du ple, her culture, and she was proud to be a lawyer who fought for Rideau Vert has always enjoyed enviable fame, having proven its access to justice. She always stood tall and spoke for what she be‐ ability to fulfill its mandate by putting on open-minded theatre pro‐ lieved was right. Joyce's crowning achievement was opening her ductions for everyone. law practice in 2018, specializing in human rights, labour, employ‐ ment and indigenous law. Madam Chair, I would like the Minister of Canadian Heritage and the Canada Council for the Arts to recognize the Théâtre du Joyce attained many achievements during her short life, men‐ Rideau Vert's rightful status as a cultural institution, thereby allow‐ tored law students at Western University and volunteered with ing it to receive the financial assistance it deserves. Community Legal Services and Neighbourhood Legal Services. Joyce was a council member on the OBA and co-chair of the South The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès): It is now West Region Women's Law Association, among many other organi‐ Mr. Généreux's turn. zations. Mr. Bernard Généreux (Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouras‐ A memorial scholarship has been established in Joyce's name at ka—Rivière-du-Loup, CPC): Madam Chair, it is with sadness that Western University to help an indigenous student who positively we mark the passing, this past week, of an extraordinary woman contributes to their community. She will be deeply missed by all who left an indelible imprint on Canada's cultural and political who knew her, especially her high school sweetheart, husband and landscape. I am, of course, referring to the honourable Andrée best friend, Ryan Rood. Champagne. The world is a less enriched place without her. Well-known to Quebeckers and the entire francophone world for The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès): Ms. McPherson. her portrayal as the lovely Donalda in the television series Les [Translation] belles histoires des pays d'en haut, she was a woman of countless talents and remarkable skill. She was part of our great Tory family, Ms. Heather McPherson (Edmonton Strathcona, NDP): first as a member for Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot from 1984 to 1993 Madam Chair, the Faculté Saint-Jean is at the heart of Edmonton and, then, as a senator from 2005 to 2014. She will also be remem‐ Strathcona's vibrant French-speaking community. bered for her community involvement as the general secretary of [English] the Union des artistes and her contribution to the Francophonie, where she sought to build relationships and celebrate the richness Established in 1908, the Faculté Saint-Jean became a campus of of francophone cultural heritage throughout the world. I want to ex‐ the University of Alberta in 1977. It is the only francophone cam‐ tend my deepest sympathies to her son, Patrick, her daughter, Lil‐ pus in all of Alberta and serves a vital role in attracting people to iane, and her spouse, André Sébastien. our province and in protecting and preserving the French language and the Francophonie. Ms. Champagne, it was a privilege and an honour to have known ● (1220) you. You will be missed. Thank you very much. [Translation] [English] The faculty's existence is in jeopardy because of the province's numerous cuts to post-secondary education. The federal govern‐ The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès): Mr. van Koever‐ ment made official languages commitments to French-speaking den. communities. [Translation] [English] Mr. (Milton, Lib.): Thank you, We need to do more to support the Faculté Saint-Jean and to pre‐ Madam Chair. serve Alberta's only French-speaking post-secondary institution. [English] [Translation] The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès): Mrs. Desbiens, It's with great sadness that I rise in the House today to honour the you may go ahead. life of Robert Walter Elliot. Walt passed away at his Milton home Mrs. (Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île last Thursday, in his 87th year. Walt was a pillar of Milton. He d'Orléans—Charlevoix, BQ): Madam Chair, I am very con‐ served as the Liberal member of provincial parliament for Halton cerned. North from 1987 to 1990 and played a prominent role in every Lib‐ eral candidate's campaign, both provincially and federally, since the Even during the pandemic, when every cultural sector is at a vir‐ 1970s. tual standstill, the Canada Council for the Arts is refusing to pro‐ vide financial support to renowned theatres like the Théâtre du Walt was actively involved in fundraising and organization for Rideau Vert—Canada's oldest French-language professional the‐ groups including the United Way, Children's Aid Society, the On‐ atre, headed by none other than the equally renowned director tario Agricultural Museum, and our mutual alma mater, McMaster Denise Filiatrault. The theatre's applications for long-term financial University. Mr. Elliot was also a high school math teacher and prin‐ assistance have been turned down for the past 10 years. cipal. 6 COVI-19 June 9, 2020

Dear father of Paul and his wife Evelyn, as well as Tina and her parliamentary accountability. He met with thousands of people out‐ husband Joe, he is lovingly remembered by his granddaughters side on Parliament Hill just a few days ago. Why can we not meet Emily Violet and Katie, and of course his wonderful wife, Anne, with a fraction of that number inside Parliament Hill to do the work with whom he recently celebrated an incredible 60 years of mar‐ on Canadians' behalf? riage.

Thanks for everything you did for Milton, Walt. You are and will Right Hon. : Madam Chair, I am pleased to be be dearly missed. here in Parliament today answering questions from the opposition. [Translation] We've been sitting four days a week over the past number of weeks The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès): We will now to continue to engage in the kind of back-and-forth that is essential proceed to questions to ministers. in our democracy. Please note that we will suspend the proceedings every 45 min‐ utes in order to allow employees who provide support for the sitting At the same time, I do want to highlight that peaceful protest is a to substitute each other safely. fundamental right in Canada. Thousands of Canadians spoke out [English] over the past week, and it was important for me to be part of them, to hear them and to demonstrate my support. The honourable Leader of the Opposition. Hon. (Leader of the Opposition): Madam Chair, last week we learned that Liberal member of Parliament Hon. Andrew Scheer: Again, Madam Chair, the Prime Minister had been arrested on April 9 of this year on a se‐ knows that this is not the normal functioning of Parliament. ries of charges, including two counts of assault, and we know that one of the victims is a woman. The Prime Minister said he learned Friday about the charges. In fact, in a little over a week, Parliament will debate what's Can he tell the House when he first learned about the arrest of Mr. called the estimates, over 80 billion dollars' worth of new govern‐ Tabbara, not the charges but the arrest of Mr. Tabbara? ment spending. Because of the Prime Minister's rules that he's im‐ posed on this chamber, members of Parliament will only have four The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès): The right hon‐ hours to debate over 80 billion dollars' worth of new spending. ourable Prime Minister. Imagine the CEO of a major corporation telling its board of direc‐ Right Hon. Justin Trudeau (Prime Minister): Madam Chair, tors that they are only going to let the auditors in for four hours and we learned about this issue—the arrest, the charges, everything that they are going to rubber-stamp everything else. That CEO would be happened—on Friday. We take this issue very seriously. These are fired. serious allegations, and the member has stepped away from the Liberal caucus. [Translation] Again, if the Prime Minister can meet outside this chamber with thousands of people, why can members of Parliament not gather in‐ Hon. Andrew Scheer: On Friday, the Prime Minister took part side to do the work that Canadians elected us to do? in a gathering of nearly 7,000 people. He wore a mask, because he could not maintain his physical distance from everyone else. Today, we are here, in the House, keeping a good distance from one anoth‐ Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Madam Chair, nothing prevents the er and not wearing masks. Parliament can work that way. Leader of the Opposition from asking questions right now on the Will the Prime Minister recall Parliament immediately so that it estimates. We have hours of questions every single day when they can do its job? are more than open to ask questions. We will respond to the ques‐ tions on the important measures we've put forward for Canadians. ● (1225) Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Madam Chair, I am very pleased to be here, today, to answer questions from the opposition. We are Yes, we have invested unprecedented amounts in supporting very pleased to be able to ensure that Parliament and the democrat‐ families and households and small businesses and seniors and peo‐ ic process work. ple right across the country who needed help. That is not in spite of the pandemic, but because of the pandem‐ ic. It is important that we maintain our efforts to be transparent and open, and those measures will remain in place. Hon. Andrew Scheer: Madam Chair, the Prime Minister brought up some of the government's spending. Well, we know that [English] they like to waste money, giving $50 million to Mastercard and $12 Hon. Andrew Scheer: Except, Madam Chair, this is not actually million to Loblaws, but when the Auditor General asks for enough a parliamentary meeting of the House of Commons. This is a com‐ funding to do the work this House has asked her to do, the govern‐ mittee. This is not the normal workings of Parliament. We know ment refuses. The Auditor General is a key tool for members of that the Prime Minister wants to abridge and sideline the role of Parliament to do our job, to provide that kind of oversight. June 9, 2020 COVI-19 7

In a few moments, the Prime Minister is going to blame the pre‐ Mr. Yves-François Blanchet: The government hung a sign on vious government, but let me point out to him the quotes that we the doors of Parliament indicating that it's closed because of have from the previous auditor general with regard to the previous COVID-19, but the government still has to answer to the people of Conservative government's time. At no time did the previous audi‐ Quebec and Canada, in accordance with the rules of Parliament, not tor general ever tell Parliament, under the Conservative govern‐ to mention the Constitution, which do not belong to the govern‐ ment, that he didn't have the funds to do his work. That has ment. changed under the current government. Can the Prime Minister tell us whether he thinks his bill is more Without trying to reach into the past, will the Prime Minister live important than the Canadian Constitution? in the now and acknowledge the fact that it is his refusal to give the Auditor General the money she needs to do her job that is prevent‐ Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Everything we are doing, as a gov‐ ing the oversight that Canadians expect from their government? ernment and as a party, respects the Canadian Constitution, which is of the utmost importance to us and to all Canadians. Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Madam Chair, I can understand that the member opposite is asking us not to talk about what hap‐ Mr. Yves-François Blanchet: Is the Prime Minister's bill more pened during the Harper years, but the reality is that the Conserva‐ important than the exclusive jurisdiction of Quebec and the tive government cut nearly $6.5 million from the Auditor General's provinces over health? budget and fired 60 employees from the Auditor General's office. Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: We have always worked with the [Translation] provinces on important issues such as health care. That's why our government sends tens of billions of dollars every year to the The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès): Mr. Blanchet has provinces for their health care systems, and we will continue to pro‐ the floor. vide health transfers. Mr. Yves-François Blanchet (Beloeil—Chambly, BQ): Thank you, Madam Chair. A few months ago, we transferred half a billion dollars to the provinces because of the pandemic. We will keep working with The government is trying to pass a bill that contains quite a few them, while respecting their areas of jurisdiction. measures, some of which may be helpful. However, it doesn't con‐ tain a necessary measure, one that would prevent political parties Mr. Yves-François Blanchet: Madam Chair, it's almost as from accessing wage subsidies and require them to repay subsidies though we are watching two plays simultaneously, but the scripts they should have never been entitled to receive. don't match up. Fans of Astérix will remember the arsenic cake scene. In our case, the script reads “insipid cake”. We are left with‐ Does the Prime Minister think immorally funding the Liberal out an answer or any substance. Party of Canada is more important than passing the bill he will be introducing tomorrow? Does the Prime Minister want his bill to pass? ● (1230) The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès): I would remind Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: We are introducing a bill that will Mr. Blanchet to respect the decorum that should be kept in the make it possible to provide financial support to Canadians with dis‐ House and to avoid insults. abilities. We are going to expand access to the wage subsidy and The right honourable Prime Minister has the floor. ease restrictions around the Canada emergency response benefit. These measures will help Canadians, and that is our focus. Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Madam Chair, I'm sure that all members of the House want to see more assistance for Canadians We encourage the other parties to work with us to help Canadi‐ living with disabilities. They also want to see an expansion of the ans. wage subsidy and more flexibility in the Canada emergency re‐ Mr. Yves-François Blanchet: The Liberal Party's proposal to sponse benefit. That's why I'm confident we'll be able to work to‐ expand access to the wage subsidy is, in and of itself, concerning, gether tomorrow to help Canadians through this bill. because the party is also benefiting from the measure. Nevertheless, Mr. Yves-François Blanchet: Madam Chair, [inaudible]. some of the measures to expand access are probably worthwhile. Does the Prime Minister want the co-operation of the opposition On another topic, does the government care so little about the bill parties? it's introducing that it's willing to undermine the legislation just to hold its ground on not delivering an economic update? Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Madam Chair, I think all Canadi‐ Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Madam Chair, we remain open and ans expect the opposition parties and the government to work to‐ transparent about the investments we are making to help Canadians, gether to take real action for citizens. That's exactly what we are about the funding we are providing to small businesses, about the going to do. assistance we are giving to workers across the country, and about The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès): Mr. Blanchet, the supports for seniors, students and, soon, Canadians with disabil‐ please be brief. ities. Mr. Yves-François Blanchet: Consequently, does the Prime We are here to help Canadians, and we are being fully transpar‐ Minister logically agree to invite the premiers of the provinces and ent about what we are doing. Quebec to a first ministers' conference on health transfers? 8 COVI-19 June 9, 2020

The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès): The right hon. Mr. : I want the Prime Minister to understand Prime Minister has 10 seconds to respond. that Kirsten is just making a simple request. There are a whole Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: I've been meeting with the provin‐ bunch of programs out there; we understand that. Kirsten is saying cial premiers every week for several weeks now. We've discussed that the CERB is going to run out in July. She is the only income health care funding many times, and we will continue to do so. earner, and she does not qualify for the wage subsidy.

Our 12th meeting took place last week, and we're going to con‐ Will the Prime Minister extend the CERB for families such as tinue holding these meetings. Kirsten's, who need help? [English] The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès): Mr. Singh. Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Madam Chair, throughout this pan‐ demic, we have been working to respond to the needs of Canadians [Translation] on the ground. Obviously, the situation is changing. We are contin‐ Mr. Jagmeet Singh (Burnaby South, NDP): Madam Chair, for ually updating our measures, extending our measures and looking a family that started receiving the CERB in March, the benefit will at how to change our measures so that we can give Canadians the end in July, even though many people can't return to work. support they need. Will the Prime Minister commit to extending the 16-week CERB I can tell Kirsten directly that we will be there for her and her period? family, as we are for millions of Canadians, as best we can in the ● (1235) coming months, because we know that supporting each other is Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Madam Chair, from the beginning, what Canadians need to do and will do. we've been there to help families in need who had lost their pay‐ cheques because of COVID-19 by providing the Canada emergency Mr. Jagmeet Singh: Madam Chair, we know that a lot of Cana‐ response benefit. dians were in desperate need and applied for the CERB. People who were just on the cusp were encouraged by the government it‐ We'll continue to be there for families in need in the months to self to apply for the CERB: people who were earning $4,900 in‐ come. We're looking at how best to help them while the economy stead of the $5,000 cut-off and people who didn't lose their job, but begins to recover. We'll be there for Canadians. the job they were supposed to work at was no longer there. They [English] applied for the CERB. They're not criminals. They're people who Mr. Jagmeet Singh: I received an email from Kirsten from were desperate and in need of help. Hamilton. She is an EA. She works as an educational assistant with special needs students. Her school is closed, understandably, and While the Prime Minister took a knee one day, on the same day that school will not open until maybe September. That school also his government was putting in place a law that would criminalize doesn't qualify for the wage subsidy. For her, the CERB is going to people who were desperate. How does the Prime Minister think that end in July, and without the CERB, she will have no way to get any makes any sense at all to do? funds for her family. Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Madam Chair, this government has What does the Prime Minister have to say to Kirsten? How will been there for Canadians from the very beginning, and we made the she get help? CERB so that it could flow immediately to everyone who needed it, Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Madam Chair, to Kirsten and to the with minimal upfront paperwork or verification. millions of Canadians who receive the Canada emergency wage re‐ sponse, we know that it needed to be there, and it needs to continue Of course, if people made mistakes in good faith, there are not to be there. We will continue to work to ensure that we're support‐ going to be punitive consequences for them, but we need to make ing Canadians. As we look at reopening the economy, we recognize sure that we have the responsible measures in place to go after that millions of Canadians will continue to need extra supports, and fraudsters and criminals. we will be there for her. We will be there for Canadians. Mr. Jagmeet Singh: What will the Prime Minister say today to Our focus has been on helping Canadians, and that is what we Kirsten, who's saying that she needs the CERB to be extended be‐ have done throughout. We will continue to be there for Canadians yond the 16 weeks? Will he say, yes, we will extend the CERB so and to support all Canadians who need the help. that families such as hers will still get help while they can't go back to work? ● (1240) Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Madam Chair, every step of the way we have been there for Canadians, with the Canada emergency [Translation] response benefit, with support for our seniors, with support for stu‐ dents, and soon, hopefully with the support of the other parties, The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès): Mr. Paul-Hus, with support for people living with disabilities. you have the floor. We know there is more to do. We will continue to be there for Mr. Pierre Paul-Hus (Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, Canadians to get through this pandemic all together. CPC): Thank you, Madam Chair. June 9, 2020 COVI-19 9

For months now, the Prime Minister has been demanding that [English] Canadians stay home. He has followed the advice of the Public Mrs. Alexandra Mendès: There is still no interpretation. Can Health Agency of Canada. He even set an example by staying at we try to see if there is interpretation? Rideau Cottage and going out only to speak to the media. [Translation] However, given that the Prime Minister joined a crowd of 7,000 people, is there any chance of resuming celebrations and fes‐ Is it working now? tivals in Canada? [English] [English] Do you get interpretation now? Hon. (Minister of Health): Thank you very much for the question, Madam Chair. [Translation] I would remind the member opposite that it is important for peo‐ Are you on the French channel? ple to follow the advice of public health. As the member opposite [English] knows, different jurisdictions have different rules and advice in place to make sure that we have the best protections possible to pre‐ Was it the minister who was not on the right channel? vent the spread of COVID-19. Hon. Patty Hajdu: I'm on the English channel, Madam Chair. [Translation] The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès): Okay. Mr. Pierre Paul-Hus: Yesterday, the minister answered my Is interpretation working now? Madame Larouche, can you see if question by saying that if people wore masks, there was no prob‐ the interpretation is working now, please? lem. That's why the Prime Minister joined a crowd of 7,000 people. [Translation] How can we justify the cancellation of the Fêtes de la Famille in Saint-Émile, for instance, or the Huron-Wendat nation pow wow, Mrs. Claude DeBellefeuille: There's no interpretation. namely, the Wendake International Pow Wow? People could very [English] well wear a mask during these events. The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès): Do we know [English] what the problem is? Hon. Patty Hajdu: Madam Chair, we will always stand up for [Translation] the right of people to— We're going to take a few minutes to make sure everything is [Translation] working correctly with the technology. The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès): There are trans‐ [English] lation problems. Interpretation is not working here either. Is it working from En‐ [English] glish to French? Would you like to try in English? Is it working, Madame [Translation] Larouche? Is the interpretation from French to English working? [Translation] [English] Ms. Andréanne Larouche (Shefford, BQ): The minister's last two responses weren't translated. Okay, that's working. Is it working now for French? Okay. The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès): She's only re‐ We will resume. sponded once so far. ● (1245) We'll try again. [Translation] [English] Mr. Paul-Hus, could you please repeat your question? The honourable minister. Mr. Pierre Paul-Hus: Yesterday, the minister told me that peo‐ Hon. Patty Hajdu: Thank you very much, Madam Chair. ple could take part in the events if they wore masks. I will just reiterate that we will always stand up for the right of Is there any reason why the Fêtes de la famille in Saint-Émile or people to— the Wendake International Pow Wow couldn't be held? [Translation] [English] Mrs. Claude DeBellefeuille (Salaberry—Suroît, BQ): Hon. Patty Hajdu: Madam Chair, I thank the member for his Madam Chair, there's no interpretation. important question. 10 COVI-19 June 9, 2020

Listen, millions of global citizens gathered to protest the second Giving money to honest citizens is one thing, but protecting the pandemic of racism. We know, of course, that it's better if people identity of those who have it stolen is another. don't gather in large groups during the time of a pandemic, but we also stand up for people's right to have democratic freedom of [English] speech in times that are so distressing. Hon. (Minister of Digital Government): As such, we provided advice at the federal level—I know it was Madam Chair, we recognize that the use of digital tools has in‐ provided at many other levels—on how people could gather in a creased as a result of COVID-19, and so has our vigilance towards way that would better protect their safety and reduce their risk of malicious cyber-activity. We have provided specific guidance to contracting COVID, including the need to wear masks and the need federal employees on secure telework, including best practices on to remain physically distant from one another. when and how to use digital tools safely. Ensuring and securing digital delivery of services while protecting Canadians' information [Translation] is more important than ever. We continue working with the Canadi‐ Mr. Pierre Paul-Hus: Madam Chair, it's very unfortunate to an Centre for Cyber Security and all our partners to prevent, protect hear that kind of response. They're just trying to divert the debate. against and respond to potential cyber-threats. All we want to know is why hundreds of parties and festivals that were supposed to take place in Canada this year have been can‐ [Translation] celled. Mr. Pierre Paul-Hus: Since we're talking about cybersecurity If people can go to an event with 7,000 people wearing masks, and “dilly-dallying”, I remind you that the government has been why can't they have an event where 400 or 500 people are watching waiting to make a decision on Huawei. BCE and Telus finally had shows? Cultural groups, music groups and citizens are able to pro‐ to make the decision to protect themselves. tect themselves just as the Prime Minister did to go to the gathering of 7,000 people. What's the government waiting for to tell Huawei we don't want their 5G technology in Canada? Another problem that currently exists is CERB fraud. Yes, the CERB is very important for honest citizens, but there are criminal groups that are taking advantage of the situation. The line of credit Currently, our agreements with the Five Eyes countries are in is wide open, and they're dipping their hands in to amass millions jeopardy. of dollars. The problem is identity theft. The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès): Unfortunately, Does the Prime Minister have any solutions to protect the identi‐ we have only a few seconds for the answer. ties of Canadians who are being taken advantage of by criminals? The hon. minister has the floor. [English] Hon. (Minister of Employment, Workforce [English] Development and Disability Inclusion): Madam Chair, we know that there are individuals and organizations taking advantage of Hon. (Minister for Women and Gender Canadians in this time of crisis, and we deplore it. We are working Equality and Rural Economic Development): Madam Chair, our very hard behind the scenes to put in place integrity measures that government works hard to ensure that Canadian networks are kept allow us to go after fraudsters and criminals, but at the same time, safe and secure. While we cannot comment on specific companies, Madam Chair, we cannot in any way send any message that honest, an examination of 5G technologies and a review of security and hard-working and concerned Canadians will be penalized in any economic considerations are ongoing. way for mistaken belief or error on their part or on our part, and ● (1250) that's the balance we're trying to strike. [Translation] The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès): Ms. Rempel Garner is next. Mr. Pierre Paul-Hus: Madam Chair, here's what's troubling. Last year, at the Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Hon. ( Nose Hill, CPC): Security, we did a study on cybersecurity in finance and banking. Thank you, Madam Chair. The president of Desjardins also appeared following the internal fraud that occurred at Desjardins and led to the identity theft of four I believe that it's important to call out discrimination when it oc‐ million citizens. curs within our own power structures. My party is no exception. Nothing happened. The government knows about it, and now it's For example, I call out the barbaric cultural practices tip line policy putting in place a multi-billion dollar program. It's opening the as discriminatory. bank account and letting criminals in, when we know there are problems. Would the Prime Minister characterize giving a statement last week about anti-black discrimination without explicitly acknowl‐ Have measures been or will they be taken quickly to protect the edging his history as a blackface practitioner an example of sys‐ identity of Canadians? This is important. temic discrimination within his power structure? June 9, 2020 COVI-19 11

Hon. (Minister of Diversity and Inclusion people are all too often treated like criminals instead of receiving and Youth): Madam Chair, let's be clear that our government does the support that they need”, was he referring to his treatment of not condone any form of racism or discrimination. We condemn Jody Wilson-Raybould? racism and discrimination. We've seen with COVID-19 the return and the rise of anti-Asian racism. We see people marching and Hon. Bardish Chagger: Madam Chair, we have an opportunity protesting coast to coast and throughout the world in opposition to in our country right now not only to acknowledge that racism and anti-black racism. Our government is committed to doing the im‐ discrimination exist within our country but also to do something portant work necessary to make sure that our institutions, commu‐ about it. We have a government today that's saying, “Let's all work nities, school systems and workplaces are more inclusive. together, and let's find a better way forward.” That's the approach I will take. Obviously, that's not the approach of the Conservatives. Hon. Michelle Rempel Garner: When the Prime Minister said, That's very unfortunate right now. “We see you”, was he referring to his government's treatment of a federal government employee who felt that she had to quit her job Hon. Michelle Rempel Garner: Does the Prime Minister be‐ with the federal anti-racism program after she criticized the Prime lieve that making someone else answer questions about discrimina‐ Minister for wearing blackface, or was he referring to his saying tory practices that he has had a hand in perpetuating is an example “Thank you for your donation” to a first nations woman who came of systemic discrimination based on his own privilege? to protest at a Liberal fundraiser because she wanted to draw his at‐ tention to mercury contamination in her community? Hon. Bardish Chagger: Madam Chair, it is clear that there are people with privilege within our country. I will remind this House Hon. Bardish Chagger: Madam Chair, Canadians from coast to and all Canadians why I ran for office. I ran for office because the coast and people around the world are speaking out right now. policies of the previous government under did not What they need is for people to come together. I see allies in all include people like me. I was not represented, and that's why I put parties. I see an opportunity for us to work together. This is some‐ my name on a ballot: to ensure those voices were heard. They will thing that's ingrained in our institutions. We can do better. This is be heard. not the time for partisan politics. This is the time to build a more inclusive Canada— Some hon. members: Hear, hear! The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès): We will go back to Ms. Rempel Garner. Hon. Michelle Rempel Garner: When the Prime Minister said Hon. Michelle Rempel Garner: When the Prime Minister said yesterday, in speaking about changes to police forces, “I think there last week that the intention has been to fight systemic discrimina‐ are many different paths toward making a better country. We need tion in this country, was he referring to giving millions to the rich to explore the range of them”, was he referring to his decision to white owners of Loblaws and to the Irving family while simultane‐ make the person who oversaw carding in the police the ously failing to provide many first nations with access to clean minister responsible for the RCMP? drinking water? ● (1255) Hon. Bardish Chagger: Madam Chair, let's be clear. When it comes to our history with indigenous people, it's one that our gov‐ Hon. Patty Hajdu: Madam Chair, we will make no apologies ernment has brought to the forefront because we should not be for the progress we have made in combatting systemic racism under proud of that history. We have work to do. We have committed to the leadership of the Prime Minister. ensuring that all communities will have clean drinking water by 2021, and we are well on our way to having that happen. It is appalling that the member opposite fails to remember the record of the Harper government, which systematically discriminat‐ When it comes to the anti-racism strategy that our government ed against a variety of people who are still paying the price today. brought forward, it was a strategy created by Canadians for Canadi‐ ans, including racialized Canadians and black Canadians— Hon. Michelle Rempel Garner: Madam Chair, the question here is that we have a government that won't apologize and won't The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès): We will go back move forward. to Ms. Rempel Garner. Hon. Michelle Rempel Garner: When the Prime Minister said When the Prime Minister said that systemic racism is “the result about systemic discrimination this week, “It's about the fact that of systems which far too often condone, normalize, perpetrate, and people are all too often treated like criminals instead of receiving perpetuate inequality and injustice against people of colour”, was the support that they need”, was he referring to his treatment of he referring to his leadership of the country? Jody Wilson-Raybould? The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès): Ms. Rempel Hon. Bardish Chagger: Madam Chair, our government has tak‐ Garner, we can't hear. en the approach to invest in an anti-racism strategy. We have set up the anti-racism secretariat and we did that by working with Canadi‐ Order. Can we please not speak to one another? ans from coast to coast to coast, including racialized Canadians and black Canadians. Ms. Rempel Garner, can you repeat the question, please? Hon. Michelle Rempel Garner: When the Prime Minister said Our approach is very different from the previous government's about systemic discrimination this week, “It's about the fact that approach. We acknowledge that there is a— 12 COVI-19 June 9, 2020

The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès): We will go to There are 21 serological devices that are still awaiting approval Mr. Kmiec. from Health Canada. What is the estimated timeline for their ap‐ proval? Mr. (Calgary Shepard, CPC): Madame Chair, all of my questions are for the health minister. Hon. Patty Hajdu: Madam Chair, each test has a different length of time for approval, depending on the manufacturer's com‐ Testing for the presence of antibodies would be a great help for pliance with the information that's requested from them to ensure businesses and citizens in our country in making wise judgements that we can run the appropriate tests. about their lives, about their businesses and about their livelihoods. Antibody testing can tell us the percentage of Canadians who have Mr. Tom Kmiec: Under the interim order with respect to the im‐ been infected with the virus and the percentage of Canadians who portation and sale of medical devices for use in relation to remain susceptible to future infections. COVID-19, a post-market authorization condition is placed on ev‐ ery serological test approved for use in Canada. There are two ap‐ Why is it taking so long for Health Canada to approve new tests? proved tests for use in Canada. The requirement of the order that the minister signed is that two weeks after approval, companies Hon. Patty Hajdu: Madam Chair, I am thrilled to talk about the have to start providing information—data and evidence—on their work of the national immunity task force, which our government use in Canada. has been supporting in its development and start-up. These are na‐ tional scientists who are coming together to ensure that we have a Does the minister have that information and can she share it with robust scientific approach to understanding immunity and the this committee? prevalence of COVID-19 in Canadian society. Hon. Patty Hajdu: Madam Chair, I am happy to report that Of course we're working very closely with the task force to un‐ there are 22 test kits now and two serological tests, as the member derstand what their needs are and to make sure they have the equip‐ notes, available for use in Canada. ment and the resources necessary— I will get the information to him. I do not have it in hand. The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès): Go ahead, Mr. Mr. Tom Kmiec: Will the minister table that evidence with the Kmiec. committee? Mr. Tom Kmiec: Madam Chair, Health Canada has only ap‐ Hon. Patty Hajdu: Madam Chair, I will follow up with the min‐ proved two serology tests, according to my count, and the U.S. ister's office for the information that the member is requesting. FDA has approved 15. Why is there a difference between the two countries? ● (1300) Hon. Patty Hajdu: Madam Chair, it's extremely important that Mr. Tom Kmiec: Madam Chair, I will table it with the commit‐ any testing devices, equipment and approaches that are approved by tee the moment I receive the email, and I will send it to the Speak‐ Health Canada be verified to the utmost accuracy. We have seen er, the Deputy Speaker and to you, Madam Chair, as the chair of the other jurisdictions loosen approval processes and then backtrack committee of the whole. because the tests flooding the market were providing inaccurate re‐ I have one more series of questions on antibody testing, because sponses. it's so important for my province of Alberta. It is extremely difficult and dangerous to have— How many tests does the government expect to administer over The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès): We will go back the next three months? to Mr. Kmiec. Hon. Patty Hajdu: Madam Chair, I think the immunity task Mr. Tom Kmiec: Madam Chair, there are 22 serological testing force has set its sights on 10,000 across the country in its initial ap‐ devices— proach. Those studies are being conducted in a very precise ap‐ proach to try to understand the prevalence of infection, not just The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès): Mr. Falk has a among Canadians in each province but among different kinds— point of order. The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès): We will go back Mr. (, CPC): Madam Chair, I have noticed to Mr. Kmiec. in the last several questions that you have allotted three times more time for the answer than you have for the question. Mr. Tom Kmiec: Thank you, Madam Chair. The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès): I am trying to That number of 10,000 comes from a test that will begin with an get answers to the questions being asked, and sometimes an answer online questionnaire that will be sent out to 10,000 Canadians is a little longer than the question being asked. I am trying to get through the Angus Reid Forum. It's not actually antibody testing at answers for the members. I will let Mr. Kmiec determine if I have this point, so I'm going to repeat my question: How many tests does been lacking in fairness. the government expect to administer over the next three months? Hon. Patty Hajdu: Madam Chair, I'll correct the member. The Go ahead, Mr. Kmiec. government is not administering the tests. The tests will be admin‐ Mr. Tom Kmiec: I thank Mr. Falk, my colleague, for standing istered through the immunity task force in partnership with up for my rights as a member. provinces and territories that have the capacity to analyze the tests. June 9, 2020 COVI-19 13

Mr. Tom Kmiec: Will the federal government be doing antibody Mr. : How does the minister justify waiting for testing on any of the members of the public service, including the Medicom to set up operations in Montreal when another company RCMP and military personnel? like Novo Textiles was already producing N95 masks in B.C.? The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès): The honourable Hon. : Madam Chair, we are ensuring that we have minister may give a very short answer. procured a steady supply of goods for front-line health care workers Hon. Patty Hajdu: Thank you very much, Madam Chair. in the short and long term from domestic and international sources. We are continuing to place bulk orders for PPE and medical sup‐ I'm not sure if those population groups are included in the plans plies on a regular basis in anticipation of short-term and long-term of the immunity task force, but we'll certainly get back to the mem‐ needs. ber on that. The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès): Mr. Patzer is This has been our approach from the onset, and we will continue next. to see deliveries arriving from manufacturers internationally and— Mr. Jeremy Patzer (Cypress Hills—Grasslands, CPC): Thank The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès): We will go to you, Madam Chair. Mr. Patzer. Canadian farmers and manufacturers are being penalized under Mr. Jeremy Patzer: Well over a month ago, in committee, we the current Canadian copyright law. Digital locks are providing a were told that you'd received information from Innovation Canada barrier to manufacturers, and they're unable to innovate because of about their engagement with Canadian companies. When will this the excessive fees they have to pay to get the key for the digital report and a full, detailed list of the government's COVID contracts lock. be made available to the public?

Is the Minister of Innovation aware of this problem? ● (1305) Hon. (Minister of Immigration, Refugees Hon. Maryam Monsef: Madam Chair, Canadian companies are and Citizenship): I thank my honourable colleague for bringing answering the call to provide critical supports to our workers. They this matter to our attention. I'm happy to work with him to see if we are on the front lines of this COVID pandemic with us, and we can resolve it. thank them. Thank you. We're exploring various ways to provide secure domestic sup‐ Mr. Jeremy Patzer: What is going to be done to ensure open in‐ plies of personal protective equipment to Canadian workers. We'll teroperability among manufacturers? continue to work with industry partners to develop and manufacture Hon. Marco Mendicino: These are all very good initiatives, and the much-needed personal protective equipment. we look forward to collaborating with my honourable colleague when it comes to the interoperability issue he's just raised. Mr. Jeremy Patzer: [Inaudible—Editor]for use in Canada, while the same devices have begun to be used in the U.S. and else‐ Mr. Jeremy Patzer: The U.S. came across the same problem where. and with bipartisan support made a clear exemption for farmers. Without any equivalent exemption, Canadians are at a disadvan‐ Does the minister not trust the medical standards of these other tage. In the same nonpartisan spirit, can Canadian manufacturers countries? rely on the minister to make sure Canada is on an equal footing? Hon. Maryam Monsef: Madam Chair, our government is work‐ Hon. Maryam Monsef: Madam Chair, I can assure my hon‐ ing hard to protect Canada and Canadians from COVID-19, and we ourable colleague that we will continue to work with business lead‐ are working very hard to ensure that every opportunity that can lead ers in Canada, particularly in the manufacturing sector, which has to a vaccine is explored. We owe that to Canadians. stepped up and is saving lives every day with their innovations. Mr. Jeremy Patzer: From the beginning, Canadian manufactur‐ Mr. Jeremy Patzer: Does the minister agree petroleum products ers outside Quebec and Ontario were ready to produce medical are an essential part of producing PPE and medical equipment, yes equipment, but their help has often been turned away. Why is the or no? minister's procurement playing favourites with different regions of the country? Hon. Dan Vandal: Madam Chair, the size of our orders reflects the fluidity of highly competitive global supply chains. The reality Hon. Dan Vandal (Minister of Northern Affairs): Madam is that some contracts will need to be modified in order to deliver Chair, the whole-of-government approach is focusing on respond‐ the goods we need. These shifts are built into our flexible approach ing to the COVID outbreak and working with partners at all levels to procurement. of government and with industry to secure life-saving medical sup‐ plies. We have established complementary supply chains from a Mr. Jeremy Patzer: I will say that was maybe a “maybe”, then. range of suppliers, and we are partnering with Canadian industry to rapidly scale up and retool production capacity, ensuring a reliable Why does the government keep ignoring our domestic energy in‐ domestic supply to serve our needs for the short and long term. dustry? 14 COVI-19 June 9, 2020

Hon. Dan Vandal: Madam Chair, that is absolutely not true. I Will the government commit at looking at that program again to would cite that our government purchased a pipeline in order to get get rid of that unnecessary obstacle? our oil to tidewater, something the previous government could not do in 10 years. ● (1310) The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès): We will now go to Mr. Van Popta. Hon. (Minister of Small Business and Export Pro‐ motion): We have expanded the eligibility for this important loan Mr. (Langley—Aldergrove, CPC): Madam that is helping many small businesses across the country. About Chair, a couple of weeks ago Canada's Privacy Commissioner, Mr. 660,000 businesses are being helped. Yes indeed, we are working Therrien, told the industry committee that Canada's privacy laws on a solution so those businesses that have a personal bank account are not keeping pace with Canada's digital economy. will be helped through this loan program. Is the minister confident Canadians' privacy will be adequately protected in the digital economy with the current legislation? Mr. Tako Van Popta: I'm happy with the answer, but I would Hon. Maryam Monsef: Madam Chair, our government contin‐ like to know from the minister when that will happen. I told ues to work hard to protect Canadians' health and also their privacy. Michael and Darryl that I would try to have an answer for them We have well-developed national security frameworks to protect when they got back to Langley. Canadians and to protect research. We're also working with univer‐ sities and research institutions, which have strong protocols in place Hon. Mary Ng: I want to thank the honourable member for his to address issues around cybersecurity and safety. strong advocacy for his small business owners. I can assure him that we are working with the financial institutions literally around We owe it to Canadians to protect their well-being and safety as the clock so that we can get that solution out to those small busi‐ well as their security and privacy. ness owners. Mr. Tako Van Popta: Can the minister confirm whether the government is planning on adding digital contact tracing to its tool Mr. Tako Van Popta: I'd still like to know when that would hap‐ box to fight COVID-19? If that is the case, will Canada's privacy pen. laws protect Canadians' privacy? Hon. Maryam Monsef: Madam Chair, we're exploring innova‐ We heard the Prime Minister talk about flexibility for the CERB tive solutions from all sectors of the economy to fight COVID-19, program. Will the government come with the same spirit of flexibil‐ including data and digital technology experts. ity to programs that are supposed to help small business owners stay afloat through this crisis? Saying when would be a really good Let me be clear that Canadians' safety, well-being and privacy answer. are top of mind Mr. Tako Van Popta: Thank you, Madam Chair. I'll move on. Hon. Mary Ng: Madam Chair, I think that the record will stand for itself. We have made a couple of changes to this loan program, My riding of Langley—Aldergrove is in metro 's precisely by listening to our colleagues here on all sides of the TransLink service and, like transit authorities across the country, it House and also by listening to business owners themselves. We're is really hurting these days. It didn't qualify for the wage subsidy. really pleased to expand the criteria for CEBA, and we will ensure Thankfully, the provincial government came to the rescue, but still that this gets out to those small business owners as soon as possi‐ TransLink is losing $50 million a month. ble. Can the government confirm it will help Canadian transit author‐ ities? [Translation] Hon. (Minister of Middle Class Prosperity and The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès): Mr. Therrien, Associate Minister of Finance): As you know, our government you have the floor. has stepped up to provide direct relief to businesses while at the same time trying to find other ways to support municipalities. We will continue to work with provinces to make sure our businesses Mr. (La Prairie, BQ): Madam Chair, the Liber‐ and transits are supported. al Party of Canada has dipped into the wage subsidy, when it raked in $8 million last year and $3 million this year. Everyone knows Mr. Tako Van Popta: I don't know if that was an answer to the that it isn't in trouble. question, but I'll move on. I have a question about the government's loan program, Let's start with the principle of communicating vessels. The the $40,000 loan for small businesses to create liquidity. Many wage subsidy money that the Liberal Party has taken will go into its small businesses are falling through the cracks. A couple of resi‐ election funds. My question is simple. Will this party tell the work‐ dents in my riding, Michael and Darryl, told l me that they check er who lost his job during COVID-19 that the taxes he paid, even off all the boxes except for one: They don't have a business ac‐ though he is not a Liberal, will go into the Liberal Party of count, apparently. Canada's election fund? June 9, 2020 COVI-19 15

Hon. Mona Fortier: From the beginning, our government has Over 2.5 million employees across Canada are protected by this made Canadian workers and families a priority. The wage subsidy wage subsidy. does just that. It is designed to help employers to protect the jobs Canadians depend on and to rehire workers who have been laid off. We'll keep doing it. We will continue to provide this support to employers to ensure that jobs are protected until the end of August. We are continuing to en‐ Mr. Alain Therrien: It's a bit disconcerting. sure that workers are protected during this crisis. Mr. Alain Therrien: This is similar to the principle of double- I'll ask a simple question. dipping. This party told us it was taking $210,000 a month in wage subsidies. That's $630,000 that it will put into its election fund. It's Does the Liberal Party still have principles? going to spend that money. Once it's been spent, the party will re‐ ceive a 50% reimbursement from the Chief Electoral Officer. That's Hon. Pablo Rodriguez (Leader of the Government in the double-dipping. House of Commons): The is built on the principles, ideas and values of sharing, respect for others and eco‐ Does this party know that during a pandemic, double-dipping nomic development for the benefit of others. Those are the princi‐ doesn't follow the public health guidelines? ples of the Liberal Party. Hon. Mona Fortier: Madam Chair, our message to Quebeckers and Canadians is clear: no matter who they work for, our govern‐ I can repeat them if my colleague asks me another question. ment supports them. The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès): Your time is up, The wage subsidy is intended to help workers throughout the Mr. Therrien. economy to get through this crisis. To date, more than 2.5 million employees across the country are supported by the wage subsidy. This ensures that they can continue to count on a decent income We'll now go to the next member. during this unprecedented challenge. Our government is there for Canadians, and it will continue to be there for Canadians. Ms. Koutrakis. Mr. Alain Therrien: Madam Chair, I'm going to talk about an‐ Ms. (Vimy, Lib.): Madam Chair, I'll be shar‐ other principle, the glutton principle. When you try to feed a glut‐ ing my time with the hon. member for Nepean. ton, you end up running out because a glutton always wants more. It's the same thing with the Liberal Party. They have raked in $210,000 a month, which is $630,000 in three months. The Lib‐ The COVID-19 pandemic crisis and its impact on the economic erals thought they could get more money by extending the wage situation of many families has left many Canadians food insecure. subsidy. Thousands of food banks and organizations such as community kitchens across the country have stepped up to the challenge of Does that bother you? meeting the basic needs of many families across the country. ● (1315) I'm thinking of Meals on Wheels services like the one at the Hon. Mona Fortier: Madam Chair, last week, I had the opportu‐ SCAMA centre in Chomedey in my riding of Vimy. This communi‐ nity to speak with a number of employers across the country to see ty service and assisted living centre provides, among other things, how the wage subsidy was helping them to support their employ‐ over 30,000 hot meals at home each year and allows nearly 350 se‐ ees. They told us very clearly that we need to keep it in order to niors to stay safely in their homes. support employers and protect jobs across Canada. We'll continue to do so. Already, more than 2.5 million employ‐ It's inspiring to see these organizations go above and beyond to ees across the country are supported by the wage subsidy. We won't serve a broader clientele, while protecting the health of all. Right discriminate between workers. now, even though the economy is gradually recovering, food banks and community organizations still have a lot to do. Mr. Alain Therrien: Madam Chair, the minister went to the Minister of National Revenue to find out how not to answer ques‐ tions. She's very effective in her ineffectiveness. Can the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food inform the House what the government is doing to support these organizations? We've seen the principle of communicating vessels, the principle of double-dipping and the principle of the glutton. Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food): Madam Chair, I thank Ms. Koutrakis, the hon. mem‐ Under the “full stop” principle, will the Liberals pay back the ber for Vimy, for her question. money they've taken from taxpayers, when their party is one of the richest in Canada? The COVID-19 crisis has left many Canadians food insecure. To Hon. Mona Fortier: Again, I think it's clear that the Canada help them, thousands of food banks and community organizations emergency wage subsidy has been a support and a help for employ‐ have taken on challenges that are each far more complicated. We're ers and, more importantly, for protecting jobs across the country. here to help them. 16 COVI-19 June 9, 2020

In fact, we announced $100 million specifically to help food hard it can be to be separated from family during this time, and banks. Today, I'm pleased to announce that we are launching the we've taken the measures and deliberate actions that are necessary second call for proposals for the local food infrastructure fund. This to ensure that family reunification is now a reality. program, which is part of our food policy, is a $50 million fund. To date, this fund has supported 362 projects across the country for a Thank you very much, Madam Chair. total value of $6.6 million. The program aims to support the strengthening of local food sys‐ The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès): We will go to tems. Organizations are eligible for a contribution of up Ms. Qaqqaq. to $250,000 over three years for projects led by community-based organizations that strengthen local food systems. Ms. (Nunavut, NDP): Thank you, Madam ● (1320) Chair. [English] I'll be splitting my time with my colleague, the member for The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès): We will go to Cowichan—Malahat—Langford. Mr. Arya. Mr. (Nepean, Lib.): Madam Chair, since the on‐ As my first question, Nunavummiut, especially women, need to set of the COVID-19 pandemic, the world has seen dramatic feel safe when they call police in an emergency and not worry that changes. The global economy has slowed. People are staying home they will be harassed or humiliated. The allegations brought for‐ from work. Borders around the world have almost completely ward in yesterday's CBC report highlighted over 30 cases in which closed. the RCMP failed to live up to that expectation. I know that our government has been working extremely dili‐ gently, and in every way, Canadians have stepped up, from socially We know these circumstances are not isolated incidents and that distancing in public spaces to adhering to the sometimes difficult racism, discrimination, stereotypes and assumptions played a real travel restrictions that have kept them separated from their families. part in each of these incidents. Canada is known for not only the strength and resilience of its people but also the strength and flexibility of its institutions. We Will the government investigate systemic racism in the RCMP have seen our immigration system respond to immense challenges and review policing in Nunavut? before. As the response to the coronavirus pandemic continues, can the minister update us on the steps the government has taken to en‐ Hon. (Minister of Public Safety and Emergency sure that Canadians and their families are taken care of both at Preparedness): I want to thank the member opposite for a very im‐ home and abroad? portant question, a question that occupies my time and our govern‐ Hon. Marco Mendicino: Thank you, Madam Chair. ment in making sure that we do what is right in indigenous commu‐ nities right across this country. I also want to express my gratitude to the honourable member for Nepean for the good question and for his hard work. We have been working very closely with the territories in partic‐ Madam Chair, the honourable member is right: The world has ular with respect to delivery of professional, culturally competent changed, and our government has adjusted and responded to this and respectful police services that can be wholly accountable to the crisis with the best interests of Canadians and their families at territory and to the community. heart. Our immigration system is a global leader in family reunifi‐ cation and in attracting foreign talent and experience, whether that's One of the things we are going to undertake is the development international students seeking to attend our world-class institutions of a new legislative framework for the delivery of indigenous polic‐ or workers who are looking to contribute to our economy. ing services across the country. Since the closure of borders around the world, our government has made changes to make sure this new environment still works To respond directly to the member's question, the trust of the for Canada. That's why we've moved quickly to ensure that essen‐ people that police are sworn to serve and protect is absolutely criti‐ tial workers are able to pass through the border to provide the criti‐ cal, and that trust is always predicated on accountability and a re‐ cal services Canadians depend on, such as on our farms and in our spectful relationship. It is my expectation that every police service, hospitals. We're safeguarding our economy and protecting the in‐ particularly the one for which I'm responsible, the RCMP— dustries that keep Canada going. We know that while the travel restrictions have allowed us to ● (1325) prevent the spread of COVID-19, it has also been a very difficult time for some Canadians with families abroad. Yesterday we made The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès): We will go back it possible for family members of citizens and permanent residents to Ms. Qaqqaq. to come home to Canada while ensuring the strict protocols we put in place continue to be followed. Our government understands how Ms. Mumilaaq Qaqqaq: Thank you, Madam Chair. June 9, 2020 COVI-19 17

In Inuit Nunaat, 73% of our communities have no dedicated safe Mr. Alistair MacGregor: Madam Chair, I think the statistics space for women. We know that organizations like Pauktuutit have suggest that the government needs to do more work. asked for dedicated funding for Inuit-specific safe spaces. This government is more interested in words than action, espe‐ My final question is this. Tens of thousands of workers are need‐ cially when it comes to reconciliation. When will the government ed in our agriculture sector each year, but the government's agri- follow through on a national action plan to address the 231 calls to food pilot program to provide a pathway to permanent residency is justice of the missing and murdered indigenous women and girls re‐ accepting fewer than 3,000. If they're good enough to work, they're port? good enough to stay. Will the government commit to increasing the Hon. (Minister of Crown-Indigenous Rela‐ number of applicants? tions): I thank the member for the question and for the ongoing ad‐ vocacy. I think across all our government, including Minister Van‐ Hon. Marco Mendicino: Madam Chair, the introduction of the dal, Minister Monsef and Minister Miller, we are really working to‐ agri-food pilot is something that all members should celebrate be‐ ward that goal of safe spaces. cause it creates that pathway to allow migrant workers to establish permanent residency in Canada. That's something that I think we Pauktuutit President Kudloo and Elisapee Sheutiapik have pro‐ should all be proud of. vided a very good road map to go forward, and with that partner‐ ship we will be able to have a strong national action plan that re‐ spects the jurisdiction— Of course, we will measure the outcomes of this pilot and contin‐ The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès): Mr. MacGregor. ue to build on the past successes of this government. Mr. Alistair MacGregor (Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès): We are now go‐ NDP): Thank you, Madam Chair. ing to pause for a few minutes to allow the teams to do the neces‐ Every year our agriculture and agri-food industries rely on tens sary exchanges. of thousands of temporary foreign workers. The pandemic has ex‐ posed just how essential migrant workers are to our farms, which ● (1330) raises serious questions about our country's food security. Two young migrant workers have died and hundreds have be‐ The Chair (Hon. Anthony Rota (Nipissing—Timiskaming, come infected by COVID-19. The federal government is responsi‐ Lib.)): Very good. We'll now continue with Mr. Soroka. ble for allowing these workers to come to Canada and it has a duty to ensure their safety. Mr. (Yellowhead, CPC): Thank you, Mr. Chair. Why is the federal government not protecting these workers? Where is the accountability? In my riding of Yellowhead, I have the town of Drayton Valley, The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès): The honourable where oil and gas has been the main employer until recent years. minister. The councils of Drayton Valley and neighbouring Brazeau County have worked together with various partners to create a new green Hon. Marco Mendicino: Thank you, Madam Chair. economic economy. To my colleague I would say, as I've said before, that we express our sympathies to those migrant workers who have unfortunately More than two weeks ago, I was informed that the new medical lost their lives due to COVID-19. That sacrifice will continue to marijuana business needed financial assistance, and I sent an email motivate the protections that we have introduced for migrant work‐ to Minister Ng asking her for assistance for the community of ers, including financial support and regulatory inspection powers. Drayton Valley, to which I still haven't received a reply. This new There's still more to do. business will create more than 50 permanent jobs in the area. Mr. Alistair MacGregor: Madam Chair, I would say that the federal government's hands-off approach is putting workers' lives and our country's food security at risk. Why is the federal govern‐ Will the minister and the government help the community of ment abandoning its leadership role and not enforcing national Drayton Valley by financially assisting the business to create new housing and workplace standards for temporary foreign workers? jobs? Hon. Marco Mendicino: Of course I respect my colleague's point of view on this, but I disagree. He would know from my testi‐ The Chair: The honourable minister. mony before the committee that we've introduced a robust compli‐ ance regime that ensures that we're maintaining a high degree of The Honourable (Minister of Environ‐ occupational health and safety. ment and Climate Change): Thank you, Mr. Chair. Of course, as I've said, we're going to continue to collaborate with all members of this House and with industry leaders to make Certainly the focus of this government is on ensuring that we are sure those protections are in place. addressing the needs of workers from coast to coast to coast. 18 COVI-19 June 9, 2020

With respect to workers in Alberta and Saskatchewan, we have Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau: Mr. Chair, we are doing a lot to taken significant action in funding the clean-up of orphan wells, as support our farmers in different ways, but the business risk man‐ well as funding to address and implement methane regulations to agement programs are meant to support farmers in times of need, cut carbon emissions. We're working very closely with our provin‐ and AgriInvest is one of the four major programs. cial and territorial counterparts in those provinces, as elsewhere, and we will continue to work to ensure that we are addressing the The Chair: Mr. Soroka, you have 45 seconds remaining. economic concerns of people who live in Alberta and Saskatchewan. Mr. Gerald Soroka: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Gerald Soroka: Mr. Chair, I sit on the Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food and our first business at the commit‐ tee was to study the business risk management programs because The government has put $50 million into the AgriRecovery pro‐ they are not working or helping farmers. Just as we were starting gram to pay for feed so producers can hold back cattle until slaugh‐ the study, it was shut down because of COVID-19. ter plants can take them. With processing capacity not even at 60% and Alberta feedlots full and backlogged for months, before this My concern is that during the pandemic, Minister Bibeau had backlog can be cleared, the spring-born calves will be coming to stated several times that an agricultural community can apply for market this fall. With very little room in the feedlots, price in the the various BRM programs for financial help. These are the same fall calf run will be very low. programs that the ag committee was studying because they are not working. If the BRM programs weren't helping farmers before COVID-19 Is the minister aware that this is going to happen, and what is the and farmers now are in even greater financial need, why does the plan to help ranchers with the lower calf prices this fall? minister believe these programs would help farmers now? The Chair: The honourable minister. ● (1335) Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau: I know that farmers would like the programs to be more generous, but it doesn't mean the programs are Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau: Mr. Chair, yes, we are doing even not working. Actually, the previous government made cuts of more than the business risk management programs for the meat in‐ about $400 million to these programs, and now we have to get all dustry. As you said, we have put in place the AgriRecovery pro‐ of the provinces on board to make modifications. I can tell you that gram for the meat sector. For the beef sector and the pork sector, it's this is a top priority and I am working with the provinces on a a $50-million fund, and also $77.5 million to support the processing weekly basis on this. industry. Mr. Gerald Soroka: Minister Bibeau, are you aware that the Liberal government has been in power for four and a half years? The Chair: We'll go on to Mr. Reid. Are you saying that in four and a half years you don't have the abil‐ ity to make these changes? Mr. (Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, CPC): The Chair: I just want to remind the honourable members to Thank you, Mr. Chair. place their questions and their replies through the chair and not di‐ rectly to each other. I want to confirm whether it's the case that at a meeting later this The honourable minister. week, the Prime Minister will be proposing to the premiers that Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau: Thank you, Mr. Chair. wherever the RCMP is contracted to serve as the provincial police force, body cams should be used by all officers on patrol. Actually, when you cut $400 million from a program that needs provincial contributions, it's very hard to get all of the provinces The Chair: The honourable minister. and territories back to agree on new— Mr. Gerald Soroka: We'll try again. Hon. Bill Blair: There is a very important discussion taking Mr. Chair, when the AgriInvest program was first established, place, not only within the RCMP but in policing right across the one of its benefits that was promoted was that it could be used as a country, about how to improve systems of accountability and over‐ retirement savings plan for farmers. The other benefit was that sight and to provide the best possible evidence of events as they farmers could invest in their businesses. It has now come to my at‐ transpire. For the police services for which the government is re‐ tention that the government doesn't want to financially assist farm‐ sponsible, we have made a commitment to do that. ers until they use up all of the money in AgriInvest. At the Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food, a witness from Quebec Mr. Scott Reid: Was that a yes, that it will be brought up at that said that AgriInvest is for farmers to invest in their businesses; it is meeting later this week? not a bailout. Is Minister Bibeau asking farmers to use up all of their AgriIn‐ Hon. Bill Blair: Thank you for the opportunity to finish my an‐ vest money and be destitute before she will help them? swer. June 9, 2020 COVI-19 19

The Prime Minister has made it very clear that for the premiers 300 lives per annum. Is the cost of saving 300 lives per annum— of the provinces and territories, who are actually responsible for one half of 1% of a billion dollars—more or less important than policing in their respective jurisdictions, this is an important discus‐ renovating Centre Block? sion that he intends to raise with them as well. ● (1340) Mr. Scott Reid: Mr. Chair, my understanding is that for the type Hon. Bill Blair: I certainly wouldn't want to debate the member of cameras proposed, the installed cost is about $4,000 per officer. on the value of a human life. I believe it is very important that we There are about 20,000 front-line RCMP officers across the coun‐ do everything necessary, and our first responsibility is the preserva‐ try, so this suggests a total cost of perhaps about $80 million to set tion and sanctity of life. There are a number of important opera‐ up body cams across Canada. tional considerations that the RCMP will undertake. Are those numbers roughly accurate? The Chair: Mr. Reid, you have 30 seconds. Hon. Bill Blair: No, they're not, actually, because not every indi‐ Mr. Scott Reid: I'm wondering if [Inaudible—Editor] within the vidual would require his or her own camera. We are looking at pa‐ 24 months that took place since this matter was raised unanimously trol circumstances where the presence of a camera can provide in the House. valuable evidence and provide enhanced accountability for the offi‐ cers. I would point out that it's particularly acute in some of our in‐ I have this question for the minister. There are 5,600 RCMP ve‐ digenous and remote communities, so that's where we'll be looking hicles. It would cost $5 million to save 300 lives per annum. A de‐ first— fibrillator lasts about 10 years and saves on average during its 10- year lifespan one life per every 1.7 defibrillators installed. Is this or Mr. Scott Reid: Mr. Chair, there are about 5,600 RCMP patrol is this not a priority that the Prime Minister will deal with by the vehicles across the country. Would it be correct to use the $4,000 end of this year? figure, times that number of vehicles, giving us about a $20-million to $30-million cost? Hon. Bill Blair: Unfortunately, because this is an operational de‐ cision of the RCMP...to make that commitment on behalf of the Hon. Bill Blair: Of course, the member raises another secondary member, but I will acknowledge the value of automatic defibrillator but very important issue of in-car cameras. Many of our patrol cars machines in our communities. I'm certain that the RCMP is aware are already equipped with such devices. of that as well. Mr. Scott Reid: Body cams are an excellent technology. Given [Translation] the Prime Minister's newfound enthusiasm for the adoption of this excellent life-saving technology, may I be so bold as to suggest that The Chair: We'll now continue with Mr. Berthold. it might be appropriate, after four years of my persistent question‐ Mr. (Mégantic—L'Érable, CPC): Thank you ing on this subject, for the government to also install automated ex‐ very much, Mr. Chair. ternal defibrillators in every one of the 5,600 RCMP vehicles? For more than a week, my colleagues and my leader have been Hon. Bill Blair: I'm aware of, and commend the member for, his trying by every means possible to ask the government to be trans‐ strong advocacy on that. I too am experienced in the use of these parent when it comes to infrastructure. However, history shows that devices. I believe they can save lives. There are, of course, issues of when a Liberal touches infrastructure, it always ends badly. I'm go‐ cost and jurisdiction that need to be addressed, but the member's ing to give the minister a chance to start from the beginning. advocacy is very valuable. Mr. Scott Reid: I hope the advocacy of the House of Commons How many projects have been authorized by her government as a whole is also valued. since the launch of the Investing in Canada plan, how many have been completed and how much federal money has been invested in On January 21, 2018, the House of Commons unanimously voted them? “That...within twelve months...the government should follow the Hon. Catherine McKenna (Minister of Infrastructure and example of other Canadian police services and act to save hundreds Communities): Mr. Chair, as I have said before in the House, we of lives each year by equipping all RCMP vehicles with...defibrilla‐ are investing in infrastructure all across the country. It is very im‐ tors...”. portant that we move forward. We have an infrastructure plan that That was over 24 months ago. Why has the government failed to focuses on green infrastructure and public transit for recreation cen‐ act on the unanimous advice of the House of Commons? tres and rural communities. Hon. Bill Blair: I again thank the member for his strong advoca‐ I would like to talk about the previous government— cy on this. It's an issue that is under discussion with the RCMP. The Chair: Mr. Berthold, you have the floor. There are a number of operational issues that need to be addressed within the police service, and priorities made on the expenditure of Mr. Luc Berthold: Mr. Chair, once again, the minister is unable funds, but we are aware of the strong support of the House for this to give us any numbers. measure. The government contends that 50,000 projects have been com‐ Mr. Scott Reid: The priority of funding is an excellent question, pleted in Canada. The Parliamentary Budget Officer talks about Mr. Chair. It will cost approximately a billion dollars to renovate 30,000 projects. We are short 20,000. The minister cannot even tell Centre Block. I believe that's accurate. It will cost $5 million to put us how many projects have been carried out in Canada under the these AEDs, defibrillators, into all police cruisers. This would save Investing in Canada plan. 20 COVI-19 June 9, 2020

How many are there, Madam Minister? minister herself says that the provinces do not have to report on the projects in which the government has invested? [English] Ms. (Victoria, NDP): Mr. Chair, I have a point In fact, we have received another answer. The Parliamentary of order. Budget Officer has learned from Infrastructure Canada officials that The Chair: Ms. Collins, on a point of order. the government does not collect detailed data on CMHC projects. Ms. Laurel Collins: Mr. Berthold's volume was at the same lev‐ How can this government claim to have completed a given num‐ el as the interpretation. I was hoping that you could— ber of projects when, based on its own statements and those of its The Chair: Is the honourable member on the right channel? department, it is not able to obtain the numbers? Sometimes that messes things up. Why is the minister spinning her wheels so much instead of pro‐ [Translation] viding all the information to Canadians? Mr. Luc Berthold: I am on the French channel, Mr. Chair. Hon. Catherine McKenna: Mr. Chair, we have provided the in‐ The Chair: Madam Minister, are you on the French or English formation. I find it truly incredible to hear these questions from the channel? Conservative Party, the hon. member's party, when the Conserva‐ [English] tives wanted to cut our infrastructure investments in the last elec‐ tion campaign. Ms. Laurel Collins: It seems to be working now. [Translation] So I am asking the hon. member which projects they would have The Chair: Perfect. cut. Mr. Luc Berthold: Municipalities are asking for help. A Royal The hon. minister has the floor. Bank of Canada economic study released this morning is very Hon. Catherine McKenna: Mr. Chair, as I have said before in clear: the COVID-19 pandemic has had a tsunami effect on munici‐ the House, we have already presented to the Parliamentary Budget pal finances. In 2020, the revenue shortfall from lowering property Officer the 33,000 projects in which we have invested directly. We taxes and user fees, including public transit, will be $11.7 billion are also supporting 20,000 gas tax and CMHC projects. However, for Canada as a whole, including $5 billion for Ontario. the answer— The Chair: We now go to Mr. Berthold. Why is the minister playing petty politics instead of helping the municipalities? Mr. Luc Berthold: Mr. Chair, first of all, the government waited two years before providing a list of gas tax funding to the Parlia‐ Hon. Catherine McKenna: Mr. Chair, we are helping the mu‐ mentary Budget Officer. They did so last Friday. nicipalities.

Next, they said they could not give out the list of projects for se‐ We are investing in infrastructure every day. We recognize the curity reasons. Then they said they could not give out the list be‐ need to be flexible during this crisis. That is why we are advanc‐ cause of the previous government. However, after two years of ing $2.2 billion to municipalities to help them get back on their waiting, a partial list was provided to the Parliamentary Budget Of‐ feet, to build more infrastructure and to create jobs. We will certain‐ ficer on Friday. ly continue to work with the provinces and territories. It is extreme‐ ly important that our essential workers be able to travel by public Is it not time to give the Auditor General the power to investigate transit. this Liberal infrastructure fiasco? Hon. Catherine McKenna: Mr. Chair, we have already outlined The Chair: We now go to Mr. Lawrence. the projects in which we are directly investing, and I will speak [English] frankly to the hon. member. It was the Conservative government that negotiated a ten-year Mr. Lawrence, go ahead. gas tax plan that does not require reporting on projects. Quebec is Mr. Philip Lawrence (Northumberland—Peterborough not required to report on a project-by-project basis. South, CPC): Thank you. I can assure you that, when we renegotiate this agreement, we Over the weekend, the Prime Minister sole-sourced a contract for will require municipalities and provinces to publicly report on over $100 million to buy two brand new private jets to add to the projects. government's fleet. Why was this contract sole-sourced? I cannot believe the hon. member, a Conservative— Hon. (Oakville, Lib.): Mr. Chair, the Challenger ● (1345) 650 aircraft is the current production version of the model that the The Chair: We now go back to Mr. Berthold. Canadian Forces currently operates. It was determined that this commonality would result in efficiency and interoperability and— Mr. Luc Berthold: Mr. Chair, this is unbelievable. How can the government say that there were 20,000 gas tax projects when the The Chair: We now go back to Mr. Lawrence. June 9, 2020 COVI-19 21

Mr. Philip Lawrence: Thank you very much for that education duction action plan, the strategic review. Our defence policy makes and those great talking points. In April of 2018, however, the Royal sure that it's fully funded and we're going to be replacing not only Canadian Air Force recommended that the government purchase all of our jets with brand new aircraft, but also all of the other air‐ used private jets for between $12 million to $18 million, which is craft, whether they're for search and rescue or the Challenger fleet, considerably less than $100 million. Why would the government because our women and men deserve the right and new equipment. choose a more expensive option? The Chair: The honourable minister.... We seem to have a tech‐ Mr. Philip Lawrence: Once again, more words from this Liberal nical issue. government but no action.

Could the honourable minister please proceed? Today we still have our brave airmen flying more than 40-year- Hon. Harjit S. Sajjan (Minister of National Defence): Can old F-18s bought from the Australian government. Once again, you repeat the question? I was having a technical issue. when will the government realize that spending money on our mili‐ The Chair: We'll stop the time. The question was about 20 sec‐ tary is a great thing to do, and not on brand new private jets when onds long. Go ahead. used ones would work perfectly well? Mr. Philip Lawrence: In 2018, it was reported that the Royal Hon. Harjit S. Sajjan: We are committed to making sure that Canadian Air Force recommended the government replace its fleet our air force personnel have all the right tools, Mr. Chair. We are of private jets with used private jets that cost between $12 million making sure that we make the appropriate investments for our peo‐ to $18 million. That's far less than the $100 million that was spent ple. If the Conservatives were serious about this, they would have through the sole-source contract. replaced these jets a long time ago, but they didn't. We will. Could you please explain why the government chose the more expensive option? Mr. Philip Lawrence: I would just like to ask the minister if he's aware that the Liberal government has actually been in power for The Chair: Once again, I want to remind the hon. members to the last five years, and move on from there to ask the government place their questions through the Chair. That's just a reminder. about the role it certainly has.... Hon. Harjit S. Sajjan: Mr. Chair, when it comes to supporting our women and men, we committed to making sure that they would Recently, Liberal MP re-awoke a conversation have the appropriate equipment they deserve. These aircraft are re‐ that the national heritage minister had brought up, that we should quired for very important things, such as evacuation of Canadian be licensing or controlling the media. Will the government commit Armed Forces personnel, repatriation of Canadians, such as people to not regulating the Internet and all media? like Pastor Lim from North Korea, and it— ● (1350) The Chair: The honourable minister. Mr. Philip Lawrence: Thank you very much for the great cor‐ rection, Mr. Chair. I appreciate it. Hon. (Minister of Canadian Heritage): Mr. Chair, we've made it clear in the House numerous times that we I would also like to inquire why the military was given 40 year have no intention of regulating the Internet. old F-18 planes while the Prime Minister's going to be flying around in brand new, sole-sourced private jets? The Chair: We'll now go to Mr. Manly. Hon. Harjit S. Sajjan: Mr. Chair, we committed to making sure that our Canadian Armed Forces would be funded, and that's exact‐ Mr. Paul Manly: Thank you, Mr. Chair. ly what we're doing. The Challenger fleet has been transporting parliamentarians of all stripes since April. The fleet transported the Mr. Chair, the charitable and non-profit sectors contribute 8.5% leader of the opposition and his entire family to attend the emergen‐ of GDP and support 2.4 million jobs in Canada. Many of these or‐ cy session in the House of Commons. These planes play a very im‐ ganizations are struggling financially during this pandemic. Almost portant role and we're— 75% have seen a decrease in revenue, while almost 40% have seen Mr. Philip Lawrence: The hypocrisy of this Liberal government an increase in demands for services. These organizations serve the knows no end. The Prime Minister said to our brave soldiers, who most vulnerable members of our society efficiently and effectively. are out on the front line helping us through COVID and throughout We need them to survive the pandemic. the world, that they were asking for more than he was prepared to give. He won't replace 40-year-old jets that he got from the Aus‐ Will the government create a sector-specific grant program to tralian government, but is perfectly happy to be flying around in help guarantee the survival of the charitable and non-profit organi‐ these brand new private jets. zations?

Once again, why was this contract sole-sourced and why does The Chair: The honourable minister. the Canadian military means so little to a Liberal government? Hon. Harjit S. Sajjan: Mr. Chair, we're not going to take any Hon. (Minister of Families, Children and So‐ lessons from the opposition in this regard. They're the government cial Development): Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the that actually cut $2 billion per year when it comes to the deficit re‐ honourable member for the really important question. 22 COVI-19 June 9, 2020

We recognize the strong services, the essential services, that non- I acknowledge that there remains much work to be done. The profits and charities provide to vulnerable Canadians. That is why tragic and offensive incidents that we have seen over the past sever‐ we moved quickly to provide the emergency community support al weekdays have reminded us of the urgency action and we are fund, to allow non-profits and charitable organizations to continue committed to act. to serve our most vulnerable populations. In fact, the $350-million fund is allowing them to increase their capacity to deliver even Some hon. members: Hear, hear! more services to the most vulnerable in our communities.

● (1355) The Chair: Mr. Manly, you have 45 seconds left. Mr. Paul Manly: One of the key recommendations of the in‐ Mr. Paul Manly: Thank you, Mr. Chair. quiry into missing and murdered indigenous women and girls is to create “a guaranteed annual livable income for all Canadians,” tak‐ People living on CPP disability in my riding are surviving on in‐ ing “into account diverse needs, realities, and geographic loca‐ come that is below the poverty line. Many will not receive the one- tions.” time $600 payment, because they do not receive the disability tax It is an idea whose time has come. We need a stronger safety net, credit. This excludes many people who were struggling even before one that ensures that no one falls through the cracks. A guaranteed the COVID-19 pandemic. livable income is a fair system that alleviates poverty and rewards work. It would eliminate the need for sick leave. It would help peo‐ Will the government expand the eligibility criteria for people ple who provide unpaid caregiving. It would help people going with disabilities to ensure that everybody on CPP disability gets it; back to school to improve their education and skills. and will the government institute a permanent raise to CPP disabili‐ ty to ensure that disabled people can live a dignified life? Will the government implement this key recommendation and create a guaranteed livable income for all Canadians? The Chair: The honourable minister.

Hon. Ahmed Hussen: Mr. Chair, once again I thank the hon‐ Hon. Carla Qualtrough: Thank you, Mr. Chair. ourable member for bringing forward a really important debate about universal basic income. We looked at the myriad of measures in place and tried to com‐ Philosophically we believe, of course, that we have to help the plement, as best we could, the efforts to provide people with dis‐ most vulnerable in our communities. We have to make sure that abilities with support through CERB, to provide students with dis‐ Canadians from coast to coast to coast have a good standard of liv‐ abilities with support through the student benefit, the GST credit ing. and the complementary measures put in place by provinces. The DTC has by far the broadest spectrum of people with disabilities Instead of sending a modest amount of money to everyone, in‐ that the federal government has access to. That was why we chose, cluding those who don't need it, we chose the alternative approach through this measure, to use that as the group of people we're sup‐ of sending more supports to those who need it. We'll continue to porting. support Canadians through this COVID-19 pandemic and beyond, and make sure we recover better and more inclusively. The Chair: We will now go to Ms. Ashton.

Mr. Paul Manly: The three first nations communities in my rid‐ Ms. (Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, NDP): Mr. ing are all unsatisfied by the level and quality of policing in their Chair, I'd like to split my time with the member for Hamilton Cen‐ communities. There have not been staffing increases in 20 years de‐ tre. spite a growing population both on reserve and in the surrounding community. RCMP officer rotations don't promote good relation‐ ships with the communities that they're assigned to. At the same Passenger rights in Canada are a joke to this government. Not time, we are witnessing repeated incidents of police abuse of power only does the passenger bill of rights have numerous loopholes, but with indigenous people in Canada. the system to enforce them is broken. Complaints don't get re‐ solved, and when they do, the Canadian Transportation Agency Will the government expand the successful Kwanlin Dun First mostly sides with the airlines. Nation pilot project and establish a community safety officer model of policing in other first nations across the country? When will the government stand up for Canadian passengers The Chair: The honourable minister. rather than airlines? Hon. Bill Blair: I thank the member opposite for a very impor‐ The Chair: The honourable minister. tant question. I want to assure him that we remain seized with the urgency of ensuring that we develop a new legislative framework Hon. (Minister of Transport): Mr. Chair, the for indigenous policing across this country, one that recognizes and Canadian Transportation Agency is an independent body, a quasi- acknowledges the jurisdiction of first nations and ensures that they judicial body that does rule on complaints that are sent to it with re‐ receive the quality and respectful policing, culturally competent spect to passenger rights, and they make their own decisions on policing, that they deserve. claims that those rights have not been respected. June 9, 2020 COVI-19 23

● (1400) Hon. Bill Blair: I believe very strongly that transparency and ac‐ [Translation] countability are the foundation of the trust that has to exist between the police and the people they serve. Ms. Niki Ashton: Mr. Chair, this government must stop playing games with passengers who want to be refunded for a service they We're working very closely with the RCMP. I can advise the can no longer use because of COVID-19. member that currently, for example, the Civilian Review and Com‐ We see that WestJet is going to refund its customers. So, what are plaints Commission, which our government established, is review‐ the others doing? ing all the RCMP policies and procedures regarding street checks, and that work will inform the policy of this government as we When is the government going to show some backbone and de‐ move forward. mand refunds for passengers? Mr. Matthew Green: Will the Minister of Public Safety investi‐ Hon. Marc Garneau: Mr. Chair, I understand the frustration of gate the use of tear gas on May 31in Montreal by police and en‐ those who would rather get a refund than a credit. courage police to prioritize de-escalation tactics over dispersal and At the same time, as I mentioned, the airlines have been hit very arrest tactics in crowd control actions, much like he did during the hard and are making virtually no revenue at the moment. That is G20 summit? why the Canadian Transportation Agency has suggested that they issue credits. Hon. Bill Blair: I would simply remind the member that the po‐ lice in Montreal are under the jurisdiction of the City of Montreal However, I am encouraging airlines to compensate their passen‐ and the Government of Quebec. I will also assure him that the gers wherever possible, when circumstances permit. RCMP, which is our responsibility, is guided by very clear policies in respect of such equipment. The Chair: Ms. Ashton, you have 50 seconds left. [English] Mr. Matthew Green: Will the Minister of Public Safety ban the use of tear gas and chemical agents in all forms in Canada and de‐ Ms. Niki Ashton: Mr. Chair, passengers are having to turn to stroy the stocks of tear gas currently owned by police and armed class action lawsuits to get their money back for cancelled flights forces in Canada, as it was banned in the use of warfare generally due to COVID-19. We know that airlines can issue refunds without by the 1925 Geneva Protocol, and specifically by the 1993 chemi‐ going under. WestJet is doing it; why not the others? cal weapons convention? When will the government ensure that Canadian passengers get Hon. Bill Blair: I want to assure the member opposite that their money back for cancelled flights? Canada has perhaps one of the most rigorous and stringent policies Hon. Marc Garneau: Mr. Chair, as I've said, I understand the and controls over the use of such devices. They are very rare in frustrations of those who would prefer to be reimbursed. At the Canada and should be very rare. same time, many airlines have lost just about all of their revenue, and that is why many have adopted a voucher policy. I do encour‐ [Translation] age the airlines to compensate their passengers to the best of their ability, circumstances permitting. The Chair: We will now continue with Mr. Ste-Marie. The Chair: We'll now go to Mr. Green. ● (1405) Mr. Matthew Green (, NDP): Mr. Chair, as a former Toronto chief of police, would Minister Bill Blair finally Mr. Gabriel Ste-Marie (Joliette, BQ): Thank you, Mr. Chair. apologize to the black community for his role in the systematic and racist practice of street checks and carding? Can the government tell us when it intends to present its eco‐ nomic update? Hon. Bill Blair: Mr. Chair, I am very proud to have served as the chief of police in the most diverse city in the country, one of the Hon. Mona Fortier: Mr. Chair, we are well aware that the Cana‐ most diverse in the world and, during my tenure, formerly, one of dian economy is going through a period of extraordinary uncertain‐ the most diverse police services. I would be happy to explain to the ty as a result of COVID-19. As soon as it is possible to provide member all of the work that we did to serve that community in a economic projections— respectful way. Mr. Matthew Green: So despite his professions last week, we'll The Chair: Back to Mr. Ste-Marie. take that as a no. Mr. Gabriel Ste-Marie: Mr. Chair, in its current form, Question From the tragic police shooting of Chantel Moore to the recent Period provides us with very few answers. So we are going to try reports of police brutality in Nunavut, and RCMP officers now fac‐ another approach. I suggest we try the format of the TV game show ing charges in both B.C. and Alberta, will the Minister of Public Jeopardy, which became popular in Quebec thanks to its star host Safety commit to finally releasing the RCMP's incidents of use of Réal Giguère, who passed away last year. The format is simple. I force and release the total cost of civil settlements by the RCMP will give the answer and the government must say what the ques‐ over the past 10 years? tion was. 24 COVI-19 June 9, 2020

Let us begin. The question is worth $20. Who am I? I am a pic‐ Mr. Gabriel Ste-Marie: Mr. Chair, we are trying to be creative. ture of the economic situation, a picture of the government's overall When we ask questions in their classic form, we do not get an‐ emergency measures and of its intention to extend them, or not ex‐ swers. We are told that the economic situation is too uncertain. tend them, over the summer, and if so, how. I am also a presenta‐ tion of the government's working scenarios for economic recovery. Quebec will present its economic update. The Parliamentary Budget Officer says it is urgent. We have been asking for it for a Hon. Mona Fortier: Mr. Chair, the Canadian government does month now. It makes no sense. not play games. At this time, we are well aware that the Canadian economy is go‐ Who has been requesting the update for more than a month? The ing through a period of extraordinary uncertainty. We will continue Bloc Québécois and the opposition parties. It is high time it was to be open and transparent about what we are doing to support fam‐ done. ilies, our healthcare system and our economy. I am going to ask one last question. Who am I? I am committed This includes reporting biweekly to Parliament on the total cost today to providing an economic update by the end of the month. and status of the measures in our plan. As soon as it is possible to Who am I? provide clear economic projections, we will give a comprehensive Hon. Pablo Rodriguez: It is Gabriel Ste-Marie, MP, Mr. Chair. update to Canadians. The Chair: Mr. Ste-Marie, you have 24 seconds left. We are prepared to do whatever it takes to support families, workers and businesses in these difficult times of the pandemic. Mr. Gabriel Ste-Marie: I am going to conclude by saying that I wish the answer was “Who is the Liberal government?” I also wish Mr. Gabriel Ste-Marie: Mr. Chair, obviously the answer was, they would have told us today that they are going to present their “What is the economic update?” economic update by the end of the month, which would have made The next question is worth $40. Who am I? I will be presenting a lot of sense. my economic update by the end of the month. Of course, we would have accepted “Where is the Liberal gov‐ Hon. Mona Fortier: Mr. Chair, I think it is important to say that ernment?” or “What is the government doing?” we will continue to be open and transparent about the measures we have taken and the measures we will continue to take to support I do not think we will be trying this experiment again, Mr. Chair. families, our healthcare system and our— ● (1410) The Chair: Mr. Ste-Marie, you have the floor. The Chair: We now continue with Mr. Falk. Mr. Gabriel Ste-Marie: Unfortunately, the answer was “Who is the Government of Quebec?” [English] Quebec has indeed committed to presenting its economic update Mr. Ted Falk: Thank you, Mr. Chair. in the coming weeks. We would have liked to be able to accept While we don't have money to throw around like the Bloc or the “Who is the federal government?” as an answer, but they have not Liberals, I do have some questions that I know all Canadians would yet made that commitment. I wish they had done so today. be interested in hearing answers to. The next question is worth $60. Who am I? I am urging the gov‐ ernment to table an economic update in a timely manner. In the In 2015, while in opposition, our now Prime Minister Justin meantime, I am monitoring the government's measures and am pro‐ Trudeau said, “For Parliament to work best, its members must be viding an estimate of their costs and the projected deficit. free to do what they have been elected to do: represent their com‐ munities and hold the government to account.” Hon. Pablo Rodriguez: Mr. Chair, as I understand it, that is an answer and not a question. How does the Prime Minister explain to Canadians that we have more openness when he has shut down Parliament for months on Is that right? end? Mr. Gabriel Ste-Marie: When we ask questions, we do not get answers. So I am trying to be creative, so that we get answers. In Hon. Pablo Rodriguez: Mr. Chair, the House decided on a hy‐ this case, the answer was obviously “Who is the Parliamentary brid model that allows the colleague to ask the question. There is Budget Officer?” By the way, I would like to commend his entire more time for questions, questions on anything, and if we were to team and thank them for their excellent work. move to anything different, I would like my colleague to tell me how we are going to vote, for example, on PMBs, if it's not a vote The next question is worth $80. Who are we? We have been de‐ by party but a vote by rote? I'd like to have an answer. manding that the government present its economic update for over Mr. Ted Falk: Mr. Chair, on May 26 a Liberal motion suspended a month now. Parliament until September. If the Prime Minister believes that Par‐ Hon. Pablo Rodriguez: Mr. Chair, as I understand it, the hon. liament works best when elected officials hold the government to member is asking a question and answering it himself. So he does account, why did he work with the NDP to avoid parliamentary ac‐ not need to come here. countability? June 9, 2020 COVI-19 25

Hon. Pablo Rodriguez: Mr. Chair, we never avoid accountabili‐ The important thing is we are here to debate the issues— ty. It's quite the opposite. Actually, there is more time to ask ques‐ [English] tions. The Chair: We will go back to Mr. Falk. I will take no lessons from the Conservatives on democracy. I Mr. Ted Falk: It is true that he has been found guilty. In fact, was here and some of my colleagues were here when they shut Par‐ he's been found guilty twice. Well, Mr. Trudeau promised to do liament twice. They prorogued not once but twice— things differently, and I guess that is one promise that he has kept. The Chair: We'll go back to Mr. Falk. During this time of COVID-19 Prime Minister Trudeau said, Mr. Ted Falk: If the Prime Minister believes in his 2015 plat‐ “Go home and stay home. This is what we all need to be doing and form statement that government should be open by default, what we're going to make sure it happens.” Did the Prime Minister really did the Prime Minister give to the NDP to get them to agree to shut say that? down full parliamentary sittings? Hon. Pablo Rodriguez: Mr. Chair, we're gathered here to debate Hon. Pablo Rodriguez: Mr. Chair, we're working under the hy‐ important topics. We're in the middle of a pandemic. We're suggest‐ brid model that allows the member to ask questions. If we went ing solutions to help Canadians, to help our businesses, to help peo‐ with the Conservatives' suggestion, he wouldn't be there. He ple across the country to move forward and go through this. wouldn't be asking questions—not at all, and not his neighbours, not people from any province. Only the— Mr. Ted Falk: Did the Prime Minister disregard not only provin‐ cial regulations but his own directives when he crossed provincial The Chair: We'll go back to Mr. Falk. boundaries for his weekend trip to the Quebec cottage? Mr. Ted Falk: Does the Prime Minister actually believe that ● (1415) COVID-19 excuses him from regular parliamentary accountability? Hon. Pablo Rodriguez: Mr. Chair, once again it allows me to Hon. Pablo Rodriguez: Mr. Chair, for four days a week there is say how important the work we're doing here is for all Canadians. I an hour and a half of questions. We have nine committees working am so happy to stand up here to answer all the questions from the and being able to ask questions on anything. We are going to meet opposition. I'm having fun. Thank you. four times— Mr. Ted Falk: I guess the answer to that question is “yes”. The Chair: We're going to go back to Mr. Falk. For months, Prime Minister Trudeau has been telling us to listen Mr. Ted Falk: The Prime Minister doesn't seem to respect our to public health experts and not gather in large groups. Canadians parliamentary system. That seems to be in line with his stated admi‐ have listened. They have not visited their dying loved ones and they ration of 's basic dictatorship. haven't gone to funerals and they haven't gone to church, and now Speaking of being above the rules, is it true that the Prime Minis‐ Prime Minister Trudeau has decided to that he can violate his own ter has been found guilty of contravening federal ethics laws? directives and attend a mass gathering of over 7,000 young people in . [Translation] Hon. Pablo Rodriguez: Mr. Chair, I do not see where my col‐ Can the Prime Minister tell us why once again the rules don't ap‐ league wants to go with this. ply to him? [Translation] One thing is clear: every day, the current system allows members of Parliament from across the country, including via videoconfer‐ Hon. Pablo Rodriguez: Mr. Chair, it is important to know that ence, to ask questions and debate issues fundamental to Canadians. public health guidelines tell us to keep at a certain distance and to That is what we call democracy. follow a whole series of other factors. The Conservatives' solution would mean that there would be a lot of people here and that we [English] would not be observing public health guidelines. At the same time, Mr. Ted Falk: Is it true that no other sitting Prime Minister has we would have no questions from a great number of members who ever been found guilty of breaking ethics laws? would not be able to participate, because the whips choose who is here or not. We want everyone to be able to participate. [Translation] The Chair: That is all for today. Hon. Pablo Rodriguez: Once again, I do not know where my colleague wants to go with this. This meeting is adjourned.

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