Oral History Center, The Bancroft Library, University of California Berkeley Oral History Center University of California The Bancroft Library Berkeley, California Herbert Sandler Herbert Sandler: A Life with Marion Osher Sandler in Business and Philanthropy The Marion and Herb Sandler Oral History Project Interviews conducted by Martin Meeker in 2017 A portion of this interview is sealed until April 2029. Copyright © 2019 by The Regents of the University of California Oral History Center, The Bancroft Library, University of California Berkeley ii Since 1954 the Oral History Center of The Bancroft Library, formerly the Regional Oral History Office, has been interviewing leading participants in or well-placed witnesses to major events in the development of Northern California, the West, and the nation. Oral History is a method of collecting historical information through tape-recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. The tape recording is transcribed, lightly edited for continuity and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewee. The corrected manuscript is bound with photographs and illustrative materials and placed in The Bancroft Library at the University of California, Berkeley, and in other research collections for scholarly use. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account, offered by the interviewee in response to questioning, and as such it is reflective, partisan, deeply involved, and irreplaceable. ********************************* All uses of this manuscript are covered by a legal agreement between The Regents of the University of California and Herbert Sandler dated February 6, 2017. The manuscript is thereby made available for research purposes. All literary rights in the manuscript, including the right to publish, are reserved to The Bancroft Library of the University of California, Berkeley. Excerpts up to 1000 words from this interview may be quoted for publication without seeking permission as long as the use is non-commercial and properly cited. Requests for permission to quote for publication should be addressed to The Bancroft Library, Head of Public Services, Mail Code 6000, University of California, Berkeley, 94720-6000, and should follow instructions available online at http://ucblib.link/OHC-rights It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Herbert Sandler, “Herbert Sandler: A Life with Marion Osher Sandler in Business and Philanthropy,” conducted by Martin Meeker in 2017, Oral History Center, The Bancroft Library, University of California, Berkeley, 2019. Oral History Center, The Bancroft Library, University of California Berkeley iii Herbert Sandler Photograph courtesy of the Sanndler Foundation Oral History Center, The Bancroft Library, University of California Berkeley iv Marion Osher Sandler iin 1987 Photograph courtesy of the Sanndler Foundation Oral History Center, The Bancroft Library, University of California Berkeley v Herb and Marion Sandler on their honeymoon in 1961 Photograph courtesy of the Sanndler Foundation Herb and Marion Sandler around 2010 Note: Herb is wearing one of Marion’s signature knit sweaters Photograph courtesy of the Sanndler Foundation Oral History Center, The Bancroft Library, University of California Berkeley vi Herbert Sandler is an American philanthropist and businessman. Sandler was born in New York City in 1931 and was raised in Manhattan’s Lower East Side neighborhood. He graduated from the City College of New York in 1951 and from the Columbia School of Law in 1954. He worked as an attorney in private practice and for the Waterfront Commission of New York Harbor. Sandler met Marion Osher in 1960 and they wed in 1961. Herb and Marion Sandler moved to California in 1962 in order to purchase a small savings and loan institution. The Sandlers both served as CEOs of the institution, which was named Golden West Financial Corporation. The operating subsidiary was named Golden West Savings and later renamed to World Savings. The Sandlers sold Golden West in 2006 as they had been devoting more of their time to philanthropy. Through the Sandler Foundation, the Sandlers invested heavily in many existing organizations, such as the American Civil Liberties Union, and founded several others, including ProPublica and the Center for American Progress. In this oral history, Herb Sandler discusses the following topics: family background and upbringing; education and law school; the life and work of Marion Osher Sander; the practice of law in New York City; the purchase, expansion, culture, business model, and governance of Golden West Financial; the Savings and Loan Crisis of the 1980s; the financial crisis of the 2000s; and the establishment, administration, interests, and leadership of the Sandler Foundation. Oral History Center, The Bancroft Library, University of California Berkeley vii Table of Contents — Herbert Sandler Foreword by Thomas Laqueur xiv Marion and Herbert Sandler Oral History Project History by Martin Meeker xx List of Interviews of the Marion and Herbert Sandler Oral History Project xxiv Interview 1: January 24, 2017 Hour 1 1 Birth in 1931 in New York City — Wife, Marion’s, birth in 1930 — Biographic information of Marion’s parents, Sam and Leah Osher — Sam’s emigration from Russia — Leah’s emigration from Lithuania — Marion and her four older brothers; family dynamics — Marion’s education — Jewish identity — Marion’s work at Bloomingdale’s — More on Marion’s brothers Hour 2 19 Upbringing in Manhattan’s Lower East Side; brother Leonard Sandler — Parents and family background — The Lower East Side as a “melting pot” — Father’s work as an attorney — Living in Knickerbocker Village apartments — Primary and high school education; college at City College of New York — Exposure to reading, media — Role of religion in family; Jewish community — Developing a political consciousness; meeting Ed Koch — Influence of brother Leonard Interview 2: January 31, 2017 Hour 1 39 Father’s troubles with gambling; impact on the family and law practice — More on brother Leonard and his service as a judge in various courts — Attending City College of New York; attending Columbia School of Law — Charles Black, Robert Pitofsky, and social life surrounding law school Hour 2 56 Military service; stationed in California, introduction to San Francisco Bay Area — work at the Waterfront Commission of New York Harbor; organized crime, labor unions — Work as an attorney in private practice — Marion’s work at Dominick & Dominick; women in Wall Street firms — Marion’s job as a securities analyst — Representing Haim Shwisha; becoming a skilled attorney — Marion’s departure from Dominick & Dominick, move to Oppenheimer and Company — Interest in savings and loan businesses Oral History Center, The Bancroft Library, University of California Berkeley viii Interview 3: February 21, 2017 Hour 1 78 Meeting Marion Osher in 1960 in the Hamptons — Dating in Manhattan — Friendship circle — Shared values with Marion; sorting out personal problems prior to marriage — Meeting the Osher family — Marriage in Boston in March 1961 — Balancing career and family — More on representing Haim Shwisha — Marion’s travels to California to research the savings and loan industry; idea of purchasing a small savings and loan — Friendship with Leon Levy — Encouragement from Barney Osher; Marion’s confidence and courage — Description of the savings and loan industry of the early 1960s — Developing a five-year plan for purchasing a savings and loan and earning a profit Hour 2 95 Seeking a financial institution to purchase; meeting with Lou Rosenau — First meeting with Golden West owners; meeting owners of other savings and loans — Examples of mismanagement and excess spending by managements of savings and loans — Marion’s health troubles, asthma — Settling in Berkeley — Acquiring “Golden West Savings and Loan Association” in 1963 — Mr. Jacoby, the previous owner of Golden West — Ownership transition process; offering new loan products; quick growth in deposits — Ownership details of the new Golden West; stake held by the Osher brothers — Opening new branches; application process Hour 3 113 Context of housing and population growth in California in the 1960s; transfer of funds from capital-surplus to capital-short areas — Secondary market for home loans; purchasing capital to make home loans — Distinction between accepting deposits and making loans — Expansion: establishing new branches and purchasing existing companies — Extending home loans to African-Americans Interview 4: March 02, 2017 Hour 1 118 Upbringing in Two Bridges section of Manhattan’s Lower East Side — Involvement in the Two Bridges Neighborhood Council — Influence of Episcopal Bishop William Wendt and Jeffrey Weiner — Bringing legal skills to community organizing work — Navigating conflicts in the local community — Arthur Maxwell and Jesse Tappe — Instituting the five-year plan at Golden West, increasing deposits and loans — Marion’s role in developing new marketing and messaging — Adding new staff including appraisers and loan officers — Herb and Marion’s working relationship; collaboration and division of labor; creating processes on the job — Hiring key staff: Steve Voss, Jim Judd — Marion’s skills as a manager: direct and rigorous Oral History Center, The Bancroft Library,