Fibre Is My Alphabet

Jennifer Higgie talks to Sheila Hicks about the 60-year evolution of her artistic language

Atterrissage, 2014, pigments and acrylic fibres, 4.8 × 4.3 × 2.6 m Courtesy the artist, Galerie Frank Elbaz, Paris, Alison Jacques Gallery and Michelle D’Souza Fine Art, London; photograph: Zarko Vijatovic

128 FRIEZE NO. 169 march 2015 129 I first saw Sheila Hicks’s work at the 30th Jennifer Higgie: How did your work, Baôli Bienal de São Paulo in 2012 and it stopped me (2014), at the Palais de Tokyo come about? What could be better than in my tracks: it was like nothing I had ever Sheila Hicks: I was given a free rein to seen. Combining , found objects and do what I wanted in the Grande Rotonde for to sit and weave and think wood, along with notebooks and research a year. The museum is open until midnight; material, it was at once textural and sculptural, it’s a gathering venue. I wanted to create a feel- and then not to think, to just sombre and wildly colourful. I wanted good space for the community, a place to which to touch it as much as I wanted to look at it. everyone is invited for concerts, receptions, interlace and amass Hicks was born in Nebraska, usa, in poetry readings or to do as they please – hang 1934, studied painting under Josef Albers at out, meet friends or sleep while the children networks of threads? Yale between 1954–59, travelled extensively play. It was partially inspired by my time in through South America, taught Albers’s India, where people socialize on the steps lead- Bauhaus course at a university in Chile, ing down to well water. The curator, Gallien To go back to the beginning: you studied at Yale founded workshops in various countries Dejean, helped me title the environment after School of Art under Josef Albers from 1954–59. including Mexico and South Africa, worked the famous stepwell in India, Rajon Ki Baoli. Was he a big influence? with weavers in India and Morocco, and made Baôli is comprised of many components, which Yes. I studied painting with him and was monumental tapestries and wall hangings for shift and change every three months, when the under the influence and pressure of him. companies from Ford to Fuji. She moved to shows at the Palais de Tokyo change. To create At that time, there were no women teachers at Paris, where she still lives, in 1964. Hicks shows it, I primarily used synthetic fibre. Yale School of Art and not many women stu- no sign of slowing down. Her major retrospec- dents, although Eva Hesse and I overlapped in tive, ‘Sheila Hicks: 50 Years’, which debuted at How is synthetic fibre different to what you had some crit sessions. Mark Strand, who became the Addison Gallery of American Art in 2011, been using previously? the Poet Laureate of the us, was also there has travelled to the ica, Philadelphia, and the It’s pigmented acrylic fibre; it’s feather- studying painting. But he spun off into poetry. Mint Museum, Charlotte. In 2014, her work weight, light friendly and weather resistant. was included in the Whitney Biennial in New I also used it in the work I made for the Was Hesse making interesting work then? York, while in Paris she created a major sculp- Whitney Biennial last year, Pillar of Inquiry/ Our school was so much about perception ture for the Fondation Louis Vuitton and her Supple Column (2013–14). of colour, and colour wasn’t her thing. But installation at the Palais de Tokyo will be Albers’s teaching was very much about analyti- in place until April. Last year, her work was I recently visited the Sonia Delaunay cal perception, so there was something to be featured in the group show ‘: Sculpture retrospective at the Musée d’Art Moderne de learned by everyone. He would always ask me: 1960–present’ at the ica Boston, currently at la Ville de Paris. She worked across genres and ‘Wass ist das, girl?’ What is that, girl? the Wexner Center for the Arts until 12 April disciplines, as you do. Do you admire her? before it tours to Des Moines Art Center in I met Delaunay in the 1960s in her How would you answer him? May. In London, her solo show at the Hayward apartment here in Paris: she was impressive. It was very important that we could Project space, ‘Foray into Chromatic Zones’, I went there at the invitation of Charles E. articulate our thoughts concisely. I had no precise runs until 19 April. She has also had recent Slatkin, a New York art dealer who was inter- answer because I was mining indescribable solo exhibitions at Galerie Frank Elbaz, Paris, ested in buying some of her gouache paintings territories and somewhat insecure. Sikkema Jenkins & Co., New York, and Alison to make into tapestries. At that point, she was Jacques Gallery, London. an aged grande dame: she was astute, very Was he a good listener? I visited Hicks at her atmospheric aware, extremely talented and a good busi- He certainly was, because he knew the right apartment in Saint Germain on a rainy day in nesswoman. When I moved to Paris in 1964, questions to ask, which are as important as the December. It’s full of the , sculptures, conversion was the key word: the second- and answers. Perhaps even more so. paintings and wall hangings she has collected third-hand editing of works, whereby an artist over the years. We talked for hours, during would make a drawing and then give it to some- What inspired your interest in fibre? the course of which she drew diagrams in my one else who would become the editor; they George Kubler [author of The Shape of Time: notebook, gave me various fibres – from would then re-do the cartoon before passing Remarks on the History of Things, 1962] taught feathers to – to illustrate her ideas, it on to master dyers, weavers and so on. The an art history class at Yale on pre-Columbian discussed the provenance of what I was final product was so removed from the original art. I had written my term paper on pre-Incaic wearing, and fed me coffee and bananas. We that I objected to it. I had come to Paris from Andean Textiles and, at that time, there was then went downstairs to her warm, crowded Mexico, where I had lived for five years, and only one reference book, by Raul D’Harcourt, studio – located in the same building that there it was all hands on, not four or five or six which had been published in 1934 – the year the painter Balthus worked in – where she times removed. Whether an artist works I was born. Kubler was flashing slides of incred- pulled out books and showed me her works-in- directly with materials, or on the telephone ible up on the screen and what caught progress, including a small weaving (a ‘minime’) or the computer and never touches materials, my interest was their colour, design and shape. that she was creating on the same hand loom colours my view. I began teaching myself how to weave because she’s had for half a century. It was one of the I was interested in how the pre-Incas structured most inspiring days I have ever spent. What does touching the materials add? thought with threads, with lines. The more I got The hand connected to the eyes and into it, the more I realized how sophisticated the brain. Hands, eyes, brain: it’s the magic these weavings were; more intriguing, in fact, triangulation. It comes from passion, heart than what we were learning in the Bauhaus pro- and intellect inseparably cemented to your gramme, where we were studying typography, times and to your emotional experiences. If lettering, photography and colour theory. The I gave my designs to someone else, it would be work I discovered that the tribes in the Andes The Double , Atelier des Grand Augustins Paris, their interpretation of my idea. were doing – without a written language – blew 1970, silk, , my mind. They were engineering in three dimen- and gold thread, 2 × 1.5 m Were you showing with Slatkin yourself? sions and creating their own materials; every Facing page He was doing a series of exhibitions tribe did its own thing and there was infinite and following spread courtesy around tapestry, although what I was making variety. Their language moved in a network of the artist and Sikkema Jenkins & Co., New York wasn’t quite tapestry or painting or sculp- lines that became pliable planes in their clothes ture. But he invited me to exhibit in his and ritual cloths. Later, when the Inca tribes gallery in 1974 – a kind of heretic show. It dominated the region, ingenuity declined. The was reviewed positively by John Russell, The richness of the pre-Incaic textile language is the New York Times critic. most complex of any textile culture in history.

130 FRIEZE NO. 169 march 2015 131 Arc with Rose, 2012, Feeling Blue, Seeing White, Wed to Singular Paths, cotton and metallic fibre, 2013, cotton on Frequency Grid, 2011, 2013, cotton, linen, metallic fibre 24 × 13 cm bast fibre, 25 × 13 cm cotton, 24 × 15 cm and silk, 24 × 14 cm

Port Bas Relief, Zapallar, Falcon and Eye (blue, gold), Kangaroo Haven, 2014, 2011, cotton and linen, 1957–58, , 2009, cotton, metallic fibres cotton, linen, paper, pineapple fibre 24 × 15 cm 23 × 12 cm and silk, 23 × 14 cm and silk, 24 × 14 cm

132 FRIEZE NO. 169 march 2015 FRIEZE NO. 169 March 2015 133 Yes, I went to Venezuela, Colombia, What kind of fibres were you using then? I care less and less about what definitions My ambition and Ecuador, Peru, Bolivia, Chile, Uruguay, Whatever was locally available. Mostly people give to my work, whether it’s art or Argentina and Brazil and photographed sheep’s wool and cotton in Mexico. Now, living not. I keep probing ideas and fumble to give entertainment every extensively. Then I went back to Yale, since in France these past 50 years, I tend to use them form. Everyone has a relationship to Albers had said to me that, if I returned, he linen and new synthetic fibres. material. The interesting question is: how day is to exploit would count the period I spent traveling as sensitive are they to it? You take a pencil and fieldwork. It became part of my Masters degree You’ve talked about fibre and textile having you write or draw lines, but who moves those my chosen material in painting. Junius Bird was my thesis advi- memory. What do you mean by this? lines into a poem or a novel? The pencil is sor. He was an archaeologist at the Museum of When you twist fibres tightly they react at once an extension of the brain and a tool for a visual result. Natural History in New York, and the keeper to tension in different ways. They retract or that registers sensitivity and awareness. of its extensive collection of pre-Incaic textiles. stretch and move in different rhythms accord- There’s a hop, skip and a jump that takes you How can I bring it My interest in textiles didn’t mean I stopped ing to environmental conditions such as heat, from material to art and often it’s circui- painting – I loved it – but my fascination with humidity and light. tous. Take Richard Tuttle’s recent show at into the domain of coloured lines and inventing pliable two- and the Whitechapel Gallery in London. When three-dimensional structures slowly overtook Is there a therapeutic aspect to weaving? people who are just entering the sphere of art and poetry? every other enthusiasm. Probably. People are desperate for thinking about art see a Tuttle show, the a grounding and what could be better than to subtlety of his process may not even occur During that time, you taught Albers’s Bauhaus sit and weave and think, and then not to think, to them. What is art? Well, it’s personal and basic two- and three-dimensional design class in to just interlace yarns and amass networks of barely definable now. Spanish at the Pontificia Universidad Católica threads? I am a plasticienne more than psychol- The structures and the complications, the de Chile in Santiago. How did that come about? ogist, though. My brother was a psychoanalyst; Do your titles function as guides to how you thinking – these people win the prize. Albers was invited by the director of I think he envied my simplicity of mind. want someone to understand your work? the architecture department to instigate Titles are a parallel path of entry. They What did Albers think of your interest in all a programme similar to the one he was running You once said: ‘There’s fibre in almost every are not descriptions. Metaphors reign. The of this? at Yale. He sent a student annually to teach photograph in a newspaper,’ the implication implications are not too literal or illustra- When he saw me trying to figure it out, and perpetuate the class. One day he said: ‘I’m being that our lives are surrounded by, and tive. Right now, for example, I’m considering sitting on the floor with an improvised back sending you to Chile, because I know you’re even defined by, fibre. You often make your own titles for my show in the project space at the strap loom, he took me home to meet his interested in Andean textiles, and you can see clothes, in fact. Hayward Gallery in London. I’m thinking wife, Anni – she had checked out the same them on the way.’ And that’s how I enlarged my I enjoy making things for friends, too. about ‘Material Implications’, as I’m wonder- book from the school library that I used for knowledge of textile culture. It’s true, you can’t go anywhere in the world ing what the implications might be for the my research. I think she was terribly bored without touching fibre. I’ve conducted work- people visiting the show. Are they, say, in an stuck out in the suburbs, because she couldn’t But you were exploring your own language? shops where I ask everyone to get undressed awakened state, in a sad or a mourning frame teach, as she had in the Bauhaus and at Black I was trying to, but I hadn’t gone heretic yet. and to examine the materials they’re wearing of mind. Are they curious tourists, art stu- Mountain College. Around that time, I met a photographer, layer by layer. Everything you wear has conno- dents or young people finding themselves by Sergio Larrain, who was my age and the son tations. You can learn a lot about people from looking at the work of others? Was she making things then? of the man who invited Albers and me to their clothes, their wrappings, their packaging. 2 She had a small standing floor loom and his school. Together we travelled south all the Do you write poetry? was weaving lovely pictorial panels, but she way to Tierra del Fuego, and later to Peru That’s like Oscar Wilde saying that only a fool I hesitate to say yes. was quite isolated in a suburb of New Haven and Bolivia; it was amazing and influenced doesn’t judge by appearances. in the boondocks. Josef was painting in the me deeply – the landscape was incredible. Before [laughter] Weaving grass, reed, hair and Why hesitate? In 1971, the Moroccan Government invited you Does that get exhausting? Or is it simply about basement of their modest house. Last month, leaving Chile, Larrain and I had an exhibition at tree bark is one of the oldest occupations I tend to compose fables with coloured to help invigorate the country’s rug-making being alive? I visited the house that Walter Gropius the Palace of the Fine Arts in Santiago, of his of mankind. So, how do you deal with that and textured lines and work out en route what industry. How did you approach this Children do it all the time. It’s only as designed and lived in when he taught at photography and my paintings. Then he went his in 2015, without getting stuck in folklore or to do with them or how to interpret them. enormous task? people grow up that they start shutting down. Harvard and I thought: ‘Oh, it’s so much way (he became a Magnum photographer) and clichés about women’s work? Fibre is my alphabet and help-mate. I talked with local crafts people and nicer than where the Albers were living.’ I went mine, back to Yale. I was then awarded suggested trying to fabricate new designs, Do you edit your work much? a grant to continue my studies in France and, There’s been much discussion around definitions Since 1964, you have created a lot of large-scale while respecting their traditional methods I find I often go back to the first ‘take’; You were awarded a scholarship to Chile and once that was finished, I moved to rural Mexico, of your work: whether it’s craft or art or design. commissions. Important ones include the and materials. I did my best to get to know the the final ‘take’ is usually close to the first one. you travelled in South America in 1957–58. where I set up a weaving studio in Taxco el Viejo. How do you think of it? bas-relief tapestries you made for the Ford country. I worked with weavers in Tangier, Foundation in New York in 1967; the wall- Meknes and Sale/Rabat; I also made wall What else are you working on at the moment? hanging for the mgic Investment Corporation hangings, inspired by the country’s historic Well, on the same small loom I’ve had Headquarters in Milwaukee in 1972–73; the architecture and prayer rugs, which are still for 50 years, I continue to make what series of embroideries you did for the first- in production. I call ‘minimes’. As for larger works, I’m class cabins of Air France in the mid-’70s; La about to install a five-metre sculpture in the Memoire (Memory), which you created for You worked in India for 15 years, creating textile new Fondation Louis Vuitton in the Bois the ibm headquarters in Paris in 1972; and collections for Air India, hotels and government de Boulogne. And I am getting work ready 1 the 100-metre-long linen panel you made in buildings. How did that come about? for my show at the Hayward Gallery. Commission for MGIC 1992–93 for the Fuji City Cultural Centre. In 1966, I was invited to one of the Investment Corporation Headquarters, Milwaukee, Of course, each of these projects is the result oldest hand-weaving factories in the world Do you feel like you’re still learning? 1972–73, photographed of a different design solution but, simply – the Commonwealth Trust in Kozikode, I’m trying! But things are getting more by Ezra Stoller put, given the diversity of these works, what Kerala – to develop commercial designs for technically complex; materials are being 2 determines your initial approach? export. I studied the regional historical invented for space travel and linkage sys- Sheila Hicks working on I ask: ‘What might be good in this production and learned from the local spinners, tems. We’re mixing materials that we never Solferino Tacubaya in Taxco room or space in this country and culture?’ dyers and weavers. Together, we created thought of mixing before. I ask myself ques- el Viejo, Guerrero, Mexico, 1960–61, photographed I imagine how the place will be used and collections using cotton, coconut fibre and tions, such as: Who is my audience? Who by Ferdinand Bosch maintained. I dream of what I would like to silk. Many of the designs continue to be am I talking to and why? What are the impli- Courtesy create and how I can make it. Actually, in produced and sold in Europe, Australia, cations? My ambition and entertainment 1 Esto • 2 the artist, Alison 2013–14, I re-created the work I made for Africa and the Americas. every day is to exploit my chosen material Jacques Gallery and Michelle the Ford Foundation, as the tapestries had for a visual result. How can I bring it into D’Souza Fine Art, London been ruined by a poisonous fire-prevention When you’re weaving are you inspired by the the domain of art and poetry? chemical. It took me, with the aid of many work of other artists? assistants, a year to re-create them in my My eyes are always open at a 360-degree Jennifer Higgie is co-editor of frieze studio in Paris. They have a timeless quality angle. Anything that comes across my path, and editor of Frieze Masters. She lives in 1 and still look appropriate. I register, whether I’m attracted to it or not. London, uk.

134 FRIEZE NO. 169 march 2015 FRIEZE NO. 169 March 2015 135