Re. Purchase of Submarines 148 SHRI JAGDISH TYTLER
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147 Short Duration discussion [ RAJYA SABHA ] re. purchase of submarines 148 SHRI JAGDISH TYTLER: Please don't SHORT DURATION DISCUSSION ON suggest that by shouting you can get rne to, STATEMENT REGARDING ALLEGA. agree to certain things which are not right. HON OF PAYMENT OF COMMISSION You dicuss it with me and I 'am prepared to TO INDIAN AGENTS IN PURCHASE OF discuss it with y°u. SUBMARINES FROM M|S. HDW OF FEDERAL REPUBLIC OF GERMANY SHRI RAM AWADHESH SINGH: He has rightly put it, what suggestions have been SHRI DIPEN GHOSH (West BengAl): Mr, accepted and what have been rejected? Vice -Chairman, Sir, I beg to raise a discussion on the statement laid on the Table SHRI JAGDISH TYTLER: I am just of the Rajya Sabha by the Minister of answering the question. Two major points Defence on the 26th April, 1988, regarding were raised and I km answering what you said. the allegation of payment of commission to One was, which are.the unions with which the Indian agents in the purchase of submarines discussions took place and I have given the from M|s. HDW of the Federal Republic of names of the unions. Germany. The second point was the serious allegation which you made because you did not go Sir, while raising this discussion I want to through the Bill properly, that it is not time- make it abundantly clear, first of all, that the bound. I would like to tell you that for the generous gesture of the Union Defence tribunal the period is 90 days, for the appelate Minister, Mr. K. C. Pant, of laying on the authority 90 days, for the grievances redressal Table the correspondence between the authority 60 days. I would also like to tell you Government of India and the West German that all theee Authorities which we have Government on the one hand, and M|s HDW created are time-bound and the workers can go of the Federal Republic of Germany on the on strike and the lodt-out could be declared other, does not serve any purpose as nobody only atfter you have failed with the different expected that this would disclose any authorities which the Government have made authenticated receipts of the seven per cent And we have, as a last resort, the different commission payable to the agents. But, Sir, penalties for the various alienees—like failure at the same timr I Want to put it on record to appoint various authorities, failure to codify that the methods followed by the various the terms and conditions of service Within agencies, as reported in the Minister's state- specific periods, breach of settlements, orders, ment, seem to be more concerned with awards etc. penalties are both fine and obliterating the trails than pursuing them imprisonment. with vigour. SHRI DIPEN GHOSH: Please put it on Sir, ever since Mr. V. P. Singh was hounded record that we Are not associating ourselves out of the ruling party And the Government with the passing of this Bill. for his seriously taking up the Centre's much-professed programme or policy of [At this stage, some hon. Members left the eradicating corruption in high places, there Chamber] has been little doubt that the various officially-sponsored inquiries into Defence- THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI H. deal scandals would lead nowhere. And Mr. HANUMANTHAPPA): The question is: Pant's unhappiness at Mr. V- P. Singh's premature disclosure of the kickbacks, as "That the Bill, as amended, be passed." recorded in the statement, is also understandable, as it clearly hampered his The motion was adopted. Government's efforts to keep the Md on the affair. Sir, the whole point is that the Centre's credibility has sunk so low during the last one year. 149 Short Duration discussion [28 APRIL, 1988 ] re. purchase of submarines 150 SHRI KALPNATH RAI (Uttar Pradesh): : SHRI KALPNATH RAI: Hershman is a like West Begal Government. CIA agent. SHRI DIPEN GHOSH:. .that its laboured SHRI DIPEN GHOSH: Mr. Bhurelal had explanations and supposedly high-level 'acted accordingly. Then, why not a inquiries are not readily believed or accepted commission in this particular case, if actually by anybody in the country, much less by a a wrong information was sent by the Indian Member of Parliament 3.00 p.M. sitting on this Ambassador to the Government? Does the side. Sir however, I would like to point Government dare to set up a commission to out certain things. Growing out of the find out the truth, whether Mr. Molitor had statement made by the Union Defence Minister stated that to the Indian Ambassador? The and the correspondence, laid on the Table, Union Minister, Mr. Pant has enclosed a copy between the Government of India and the of the message. But, Sir, he has not enclosed Government of West Germany on the one or laid on the table the verbatim text of the hand and M|s. HDW of the Federal Republic of coded telex message which was sent by the Germany On the other. Sir, a message from Indian Ambassador in Bonn to the the Indian Embassy disclosed, which is Government of India, a. copy of which was enclosed with this statement, that Dr. endorsed to the Prime Minister's office also. Molitor of the West German Government's So, will the Defence Minister kindly lay on the Defence Ministry had made a very definite Table the full text of the coded telex after, of statement to the Ambassador of India in Bonn course, having deciohered and certified it? on 24th February, 1987' that a 7 per cent What was the original text? One must know commission was payable to the Indian that because it is in the aide-memoire. It has agents of M|s. HDW under the terms of an been stated there. open-ended agreement. But, Sir, in the D.O. letter No. 6I0|1020-TS|Def Secy|87 dated 28th SHRI VISHVJIT P. SINGH (Maha- September, 1987, which is also enclosed with rashtra).. This is the text on page one of the the document, it is stated by the Defence Annexure. Secretary: SHRI DIPEN GHOSH: That is the ..... the FFG Government have disowned message. the statement that Dr. Molitor made to our Ambassador." SHRI VISHVJIT P. SINGH- That is the text. Sir, die Ambassador is a responsible per son, and he is supposed to transmit in SHRI DIPEN GHOSH: Let the Minis ter say that that is only the text o!f the formation to his Government basing on coded telex. the reliable sources, from reliable sources, and only after fair scrutiny of the informa SHRI VISHVJIT P. SINGH; The Minis tion he receives. If he has sent any wrong ter will reply, but I am telling yon just information and played into foreign now. hands because 'from this D.O. letter of the Defence Secretary it appears that the SHRI DIPEN GHOSH: You need not FRG Govroment had disowned that Mr. reply Molitor had ever made such a statement to the Indian Ambassador, then, what THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI H. action, has the Government taken against HANUMANTHAPPA): The Minister will that Ambassador? Sir, you are aware, take care of all these things. only very recently the Government has SHRI DIPEN GHOSH: I have quoted from hauled up Mr. Bhurelal for trying to get that message. certaia information through certain foreign agencies. The Thakkar-Natarajan Com- SHRI SUBRAMANIAN SWAMY (Uttar raissioB was set up for finding out under Pradesh); Make him a Minister, Sir. whose order*. (Interruptions) 151 Short Duration discussion [RAJYA SABHA] re. purchase of submarines 152 SHRI DIPEN GHOSH: I have quoted from what the "misunderstanding" was? which was that message. That meassage says Dr. Molitor referred to by M|s. HDW in its letter. But on had met the Ambassador of India in Bonn. Dr. the contrary the Minister's statement together Molitor had stated that 7 per cent commission with the documents, flaunting the certificate was p'ayable which afterwards the FRG of the said M/s-HDW, says that no Government had disowned as is apparent in commission was paid, no agent was there in the Defence Secretary's D.O. That is why I the deal with the Government of India. But want to know if the Ambassador, who is sup may I know what is the credibility rating of posed to transmit communication and in HDW in the eyes of the Government of formation to his Gvernment basing on the India? reliable sources land after verifying the sources, had sent 'any wrong information. Sir, you are aware that even in West That is why. I want to know what exactly is German Parliament an enquiry is going the text of the coded message. on against M|s. HDW for divulging the designs of the submarine, which was to be Secondly, the Defence Minister's statement sold to India, to, South Africa. There was says that the Government had made all efforts a violation of the contract. A specific con to enquire into the allegations. All possible tract was between M|s. HDW of West leads were followed. Sixteen Indian Germany and Government of India. But companies, firms and individuals known to be yet M|s. HDW of Federal Republic of agents of foreign suppliers of Defence Germany has disclosed the design to equipment were raided, but he did not hint at South Africa. So this buying of submarines whether, the Government or any agency of the from HDW and flaunting of certificates Government had raided or searched the houses obtained from the same M]s.