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Full Transcript of the Interview IN PARTNERSHIP WITH NATIONAL LIFE STORIES AN ORAL HISTORY OF BRITISH SCIENCE Frank Land Interviewed by Thomas Lean C1379/17 © The British Library Board http://sounds.bl.uk This interview and transcript is accessible via http://sounds.bl.uk . © The British Library Board. Please refer to the Oral History curators at the British Library prior to any publication or broadcast from this document. Oral History The British Library 96 Euston Road London NW1 2DB United Kingdom +44 (0)20 7412 7404 [email protected] Every effort is made to ensure the accuracy of this transcript, however no transcript is an exact translation of the spoken word, and this document is intended to be a guide to the original recording, not replace it. Should you find any errors please inform the Oral History curators. © The British Library Board http://sounds.bl.uk The British Library National Life Stories Interview Summary Sheet Title Page Ref no: C1379/17 Collection title: An Oral History of British Science Interviewee’s surname: Land Title: Professor Interviewee’s forename: Frank Sex: Male Occupation: Programmer, Date and place of birth: 1928, Berlin, information systems Germany theorist Mother’s occupation: Father’s occupation: Engineering company owner Dates of recording, Compact flash cards used, tracks: 13 May 2010 (tracks 1-3), 21 June 2010 (tracks 4-5), 22 June 2010 (tracks 6-9), 23 June 2010 (tracks 10- 18) Location of interview: British Library (tracks 1-3), Interviewee's home, Ivybridge (tracks 4-18) Name of interviewer: Thomas Lean Type of recorder: Marantz PMD661 on secure digital Recording format : WAV 24 bit 48 kHz Total no. of tracks 18 Mono or stereo Stereo Total Duration: 15:06:31 (HH:MM:SS) Additional material: Copyright/Clearance: No restrictions except for the following sections: track 1 [between 35:38 – 35:58, and 40:36 – 41:26], track 4 [between 31:46 – 34:56], track 8 [between 13:04 – 13:15 and 47:20 – 49:19], track 9 [between 18:21 – 18:41, 20:20 – 20:21, 01:02:54 – 01:03:31 and 01:08:31 – 01:09:46] and track 13 [between 18:10 – 19:11] which are closed for 30 years (until March 2041) © The British Library Board. Interviewer’s comments: Equipment problems after track 11, leading to shorter session times. © The British Library Board http://sounds.bl.uk Frank Land Page 1 C1379/17 Track 1 [Track 1] Right, this is interview with Frank Land on the thirteenth of May, 2010, at the British Library. Frank, as I mentioned, we’d sort of like to start this interview in your childhood and then move on from there, so I was wondering, when were you born? I was born in 1928 in October, in Berlin, Germany. I came from a family which was fairly prosperous, manufacturing. In historical terms quite interesting, because the family had built the first lighting system for Berlin, a company which produced automatic lighting which didn’t have to be quenched by somebody going round, gas lighting, that was the family business. My guess is that the family had suffered quite a lot in the Depression, but by the time I was conscious of that sort of thing, I never knew. My father had his own manufacturing business producing accessories for the motor industry, for the motor maintenance industry. And when we grew up, my brother and I – I’m a twin – we were content, lived in quite a nice flat, and then gradually Hitler impinged. First of all, my father’s business was confiscated, his business partner actually sold him down the river, stabbed him in the back, and in 1938 of course I remember very vividly Kristallnacht, the destruction of the Jewish community and much of their property. My father had been a great optimist, he thought the Hitler thing would blow over and the Germans would come back to their senses, but by that time he saw they didn’t. One of my uncles was one of the earlier people to go to the concentration camp at Dachau and so at that time we tried to get out. But where to? It was very difficult to get visas and permission to go anywhere, so the family was scattered over the world: some in Holland, some in Belgium, some in France, some in China, some in South America, some in Israel – very early settlers in Israel – but we finally got permission to come to England and that had been my parents’ preference because my father had been a commercial apprentice in England at the beginning of the century. So – and we had other family members who had emigrated to England much earlier for business reasons really, so we came to England in April 1939, found ourselves in a strange country and once we… well a funny thing is, the funny thing is that there was a kind of image of what England was like, which was totally false. So for example, we all got clothing which we thought was suitable for England. So we as children were given knickerbockers because we thought that they were used in England, of course they weren’t. And all sorts of things. These long, trailing overcoats which you see in cartoons of refugees, that wasn’t the German style, that was what we thought was the English style. [laughs] So we came across in that way. [04:15] Now, we © The British Library Board http://sounds.bl.uk Frank Land Page 2 C1379/17 Track 1 had no English at all, but we went to a school, we lived in Kilburn and we went to the local primary school there, Essendine Elementary School I think it was called, we went to the local primary school. At that time we were aged ten and we were lucky in that we had a teacher who was very sympathetic and very good and the way she dealt with my brother and myself and managed to get us to learn English very quickly. And this was very necessary because a few months later, very shortly in September, we were evacuated. You’ve seen the pictures no doubt of the trains of children with their gasmasks, well that was exactly what it was like. We had no idea where we were going, we arrived at the station and the first thing we saw was a bus, the 142, which we knew came from London and went just to Watford. So we finished up in Watford station, we were bussed then to a little village called Bedmond, which was very close to Kings Langley which is better known, and well, that was quite interesting. I’m not sure whether this story is interested in this particular incident, but here we were, two little German boys, refugees. We all went to the village hall, this bus went to the village hall and the families which had agreed to take evacuees picked and who was left for the end, the two little German boys. A few others as well, but then the local voluntary organisation, the women’s voluntary organisation took us round to those houses which had said they might take evacuees and we came to one house and the lady of the house said she had agreed to take some girls but she would certainly not take boys, but she took one look at us pathetic things and said well, they can stay overnight and see what her husband would say. And we stayed there for the duration. They were lovely people. They were I suppose what one would call yeoman class, that is to say they were neither gentry, worked for the gentry, but they weren’t at the very bottom either. He, Mr Gentle, was… he was very good, he was a very good carpenter, cabinet maker, but he was also an excellent poacher and we very early learnt the art of poaching: snares, traps, guns. So we learnt the country life and very much loved the country life, that was very enjoyable. That worked very well. [07:54] We went back to London after the Blitz, but went out again when the V1s and V2s came along, and again stayed with them and we’re still closely in contact with the remains of their family. I think they transformed our life, but we transformed their life, because they saw a totally different kind of culture which came from us rather than the village culture which they were used to. And the son, who was a little bit younger than we were, there was one only child, the son went on to do extremely well and developed air radio, became a leading light in that thing until he sold out to British Airways many years later. He is having his eightieth birthday in July and we’re going to that, so that should be fun, but we see him quite often. [09:12] Well, in the village there were, there was friction in a friendly kind of way, not in a very aggressive © The British Library Board http://sounds.bl.uk Frank Land Page 3 C1379/17 Track 1 kind of way, but there was friction between the village children and the evacuated children. We would jeer at each other, but not much more. There were a few fights, but not many. We had more fights amongst our own group than with the others. So we adopted to village life quite well. We subsequently, we went – our school was evacuated and so we never went to the village school, our school went to the village hall.
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