Appendix D: Interview and Survey Data for the Dissertation of Melinda C. McClimans

This supplement provides the full context for quotes in Chapter 4, Data Analysis, and

Chapter 5, Discussion. The following page provides an index according to respondent name to make searching easier. At the head of each respondent’s section I indicate the sources of the data, which always entails and interview and usually also a member check. Some respondents also submitted data via an online survey form. I included portions of data from each respondent which pertain to the major findings and organized them under subheadings headings which correspond to my data categories.

Quotes are organized alphabetically according to the pseudonym of the study respondent and are listed under each respondent's pseudonym according to the major finding, in the same order in which their derivative quotes appear in the narrative text. All quotes under the respondent's name are theirs, other than my words, which are prefaced by my first name,

Melinda. Some quotes are also followed by a note from the respondent's member check which clarifies or provides more specific information. Usually these are also quotes but sometimes they are my summary notes from the member check. Only those which are indicated with quotes are actual quotes.

The dates following the quote or note are the dates on which the quote was recorded, and correspond either to the initial interview, or the member check. Member check quotes are indicated by “member check member check note” before their date. A small number of quotes are taken directly from the survey the teacher filled and are indicated by “survey response” before their date. All other quotes are interview quotes. All quotes are from interviews or member checks took place over the phone or in person, unless otherwise indicated.

Respondent Index

Andrea ...... 3 Anne ...... 12 Bruce ...... 19 Caroline ...... 24 Edmund ...... 28 Frank ...... 34 Henry ...... 44 James ...... 53 Kelly ...... 58 Lillian ...... 63 Linda ...... 68 Luke ...... 75 Marisa ...... 88 Michelle ...... 104 Nancy ...... 108 Pamela ...... 114 Rose ...... 120 Sally Brown ...... 131 Shifa ...... 141 Sophia ...... 143

Andrea

Quotes from interview on 10/11/2017, member checks on 1/30/2018 and 4/27/2018

Decolonizing Eurocentric Curriculum:

"I have two end goals that explain the way I deconstruct imperialism and explain racial issues or tensions through history. One is understanding that history is a construct so we are able to build the narratives that we think are the ones that need to be heard, or the ones that are not being heard enough. How we can counter that in the classroom. So this is a deliberative work that I do inside my classroom. I do not go by the any specific narrative. I just go by the narrative that after the years of teaching and of research and studies that I've done after a six-year undergraduate program in history. I'm able to evaluate based on my student population, like this is a narrative that helps them, as immigrants, as Others understand world history in a way that resonates with them. And sticks with them, to make it more relevant. So that's one aspect.

Melinda: So you connect to their experience. Their lived experience as many of them are immigrants.

Many are immigrants, students of color, Muslims. Most of them have ties to countries that have recently got their independence since the sixties after the decolonization process. They still have family members in Africa who remember what it was like living under French rule or under the British rule. So this is topic that for them, they can't really engage with and try to make sense out of why is Africa like this? What are the current events and problems in Africa - like what are the roots of these issues? I'm very lucky to have this student population and I'm able to deconstruct it in a way that it's meaningful, and not just doing it because I want to do it and not have student that would appreciate it the way they appreciate it. So that's very particular. I don't know if that makes sense to many teachers around here. That's one thing about why I deconstruct the way I do.

Melinda: Do you think your own identity, and your own social experience in this context affects your teaching? Did you grow up in Chile?

So I've only been here for four years. Since 2009. So that's my second point. I do think teacher identity and the way that we have. these perceptions of who we are. . how we identify ourselves. It absolutely influences and guides the way that I teach my students. Teaching, in my opinion is a highly personal activity. We are trained. We have requirements. Baselines. But at the end of the day it's my interaction with my students. It's a personal relationship we have. I do bring a lot of my personal experience, my family experience growing up in Chile, a country that of was under the influence of the United States during the Cold War. How the United States influenced and changed, shifted the history of my country, and of my own family. . .with having family members tortured and ‘disappeared.’ The dictatorship in the 80s and how the United States was behind all of that. That is a really great example to counter. . to provide another light onto how the United States and the Soviet Union manipulated things for example during the Cold War. We're talking about Congo and the Lumumba assassination and that makes sense to them. But they also need to know it was not only happening in Africa. It was not only happening to Black people in Africa, it's happening to brown people in Latin America, too. And then we can build a narrative of different groups of oppressed people throughout the world, throughout history. It connects to my personal identity, and individual identity, as well." (4/27/2018)

"I teach an economic class, a current events class, and then I taught US history and now modern world history. And imperialism is something that comes across all of those. . . .we would study the global economic. . . patterns. And then, countries which are being used primarily for their, primary resources. . .an exploitation of making developing countries, in terms of the resources that they have. . . and that is also residue of colonialism." (10/11/2017)

"for the US history class I taught, I identified a lot more American imperialistic views, and be very specific about imperialism and expansion in the United States." (10/11/2017)

“the United States doesn't have colonies, but it has an imperialistic attitude” (10/11/2017)

See also, Contemporary History and Current Events, below.

Decolonizing Curriculum as an Anti-Racist Approach:

See also, Contemporary History and Current Events, below.

Contemporary History and Current Events:

"I make an emphasis on race, on gender, and, yes - especially if something comes up, especially based on current events - whatever it is in today's political environment.

Melinda: so sometimes it comes up by accident yes.

Melinda: because they're reading the news.

Yeah. So a lot of it it would come up, based on what happened yesterday. What has happened this week. And concerns or comments that the students have.

Melinda: do you remember the last time it happened? like, student comments?

So. Basically, like every class nowadays.

Melinda: Really?

Yeah. Like, especially when it comes to of black lives matter oppression. So racial is a very important component. With our student population, they are immigrants some of them are refugees. They are Black, and they are Muslim. So we have the convergence of all these issues in them. and then a teenager boy or girl creating the identity with all this difference. So I mean, yeah, it comes up every class. I would say. Not every class . . I would say like every other day. and I don't think that by stopping my class, and talking about it, and addressing it, that would be detrimental towards my curricular goals. So I just see it as complementary.

Melinda: so you just give it the time.

Yeah.

Melinda: That's great. I really appreciate that you do that. yeah. We stop the class. We talk about it, and then we move on.

Melinda: Process it a little bit.

For sure. It . . .it's my responsibility as a teacher. That's how I see it. Like my room, my classroom is a safe space to discuss this thing. If I never bother to take five ten minutes of a class to do that, then I will have students talking about it somewhere else, and not properly structured.

Melinda: . . . Can you share a little bit about how Islamophobia' come up? In those discussions?

So especially last year after the election, and after inauguration, and after the, what is being called the travel ban, or the Muslim ban. That came up in class a lot. Especially the case with our student population some of the students family were directly affected by it. They had relatives in Egypt. They had relatives in other parts of the Middle East. And they were not allowed to travel after they got their refugee status. So it just came up. Like this is what was happening at home. And the way that we would talk about it is just to understand that from where I see things - and this is what it also becomes like, the students know my personal opinion, and I do not think that teaching or education is like an “objective” career, because it is not -

Melinda: You mean, it's more subjective.

Yep!”

"So I've only been here for four years. Since 2009. So that's my second point. I do think teacher identity and the way that we have. these perceptions of who we are. . how we identify ourselves. It absolutely influences and guides the way that I teach my students. Teaching, in my opinion is a highly personal activity. We are trained. We have requirements. Baselines. But at the end of the day it's my interaction with my students. It's a personal relationship we have. I do bring a lot of my personal experience, my family experience growing up in Chile, a country that of was under the influence of the United States during the Cold War. How the United States influenced and changed, shifted the history of my country, and of my own family. . .with having family members tortured and 'disappeared.' The dictatorship in the 80s and how the United States was behind all of that. That is a really great example to counter. . to provide another light onto how the United States and the Soviet Union manipulated things for example during the Cold War. We're talking about Congo and the Lumumba assassination and that makes sense to them. But they also need to know it was not only happening in Africa. It was not only happening to Black people in Africa, it's happening to brown people in Latin America, too. And then we can build a narrative of different groups of oppressed people throughout the world, throughout history. It connects to my personal identity, an individual identity, as well." (4/27/2018)

Teaching About the Other Through Their Creativity:

“That [Islam] is represented in a way that shows the inclusiveness, the hospitality, the creativity. . . being able to to connect to a heritage that, that is rich in science, math, arts, architecture. I mean we touch medicine, we touch every topic. . . [my students] really felt connected to it.” 10/11/2017

Veiling, Gender Norms, and Muslim Feminisms:

"even though I am a woman, I think my priority with my community is talking racial issues, and then religious tolerance." (10/11/2017)

"not be a problem of Muslim women but just women in general. So that came up with the loss of Hilary Clinton. They were definitely seeing some biases. Because she was a woman." (10/11/2017)

Teaching the Truth of Racism, War, and Occupation:

“I don't think that by stopping my class and talking about it and addressing it not be detrimental towards my curricular goals. So, I just see it as complementary. . . . We stop the class. We talk about it, and then we move on." (10/11/2017)

"It's my responsibility as a teacher. That's how I see it. Like my room, my classroom is a safe space to discuss this thing. If I never bother to take five ten minutes of a class to do that, then I will have students talking about it somewhere else, and not properly structured." (10/11/2017)

Lived Experiences of Islamophobia in Curriculum:

". . .not a textbook definition but they know what Islamophobia looks like. They know that it is when they get yelled at the supermarket. And this has happened to the students. It is when there is someone is accusing them of stealing." (10/11/2017) "it seems to be OK [in U.S. society these days] to be more verbally aggressive to people from the Muslim religion." (10/11/2017)

"Melinda: The challenges would be along the lines of navigating in a non-Muslim majority society. Navigating Islamophobia. Do you kind of have to give them tough love around that, or?

Unfortunately, no, because they live it every day. Like, I had, I was walking through my classroom last year and I had two eighth-graders commenting that . . . I heard something like . . . 'oh, but we can go beat him up' and I was like, 'what are you talking about?'. and they are like 'oh there's this one guy in a neighborhood that . .he keeps yelling at me because I'm Muslim. He sees me coming out of the mosque.' So he was telling his friend about it, and his friend about it, and his friend said 'we're just going to go beat him up.' I'm like, 'please don't!' so the tough love is from their everyday life. Like I said before, the student that was harassed by an older white male. She is 14 years old and she is at the supermarket and this guy is telling her to go back to her country. And this girl just told me 'Miss ___, I ran down the hall at the supermarket screaming.'

So I don’t need to give them tough love. I just need to give them love.

Another story. . .because they wear the dresses over their clothes. One female, white female customer, was accusing them of stealing, and said "oh just check the clothes.. . 'like,. . 'that's why they wear these big clothes because they put everything underneath.' And they were literally escorted out of the supermarket and they were just doing their grocery shopping. So. They are very aware of how hostile their environment can be. I think my job is also to show them that there is not hostility out there, as well. So there are people that care for them. There are people that look out for them. There people that will give them opportunities. Because all they see outside sometimes is the opposite of that. Unfortunately." (10/11/2017)

The Dominance of Eurocentric and American-centric Perspectives:

"I think that what's important is that I am conscious about this, and it's not an accident the way that I teach world history. That is, I am not teaching outside the curriculum. I'm teaching within the curriculum but presenting the information with a certain narrative. A lot of teachers are not aware that they have a narrative. Or that they might be reproducing a narrative that is putting the Others at a place of disadvantage or discrimination." (4/27/2018)

Teacher Identity and Navigating Personal Sharing:

"Melinda: how has race affected you personally, whether in Chile or the U.S.?

I am an educated immigrant. I think that has made my experience with racism and immigration issues a little bit different because I do feel that they see my name they expect something and they they know that I speak really good English and and then the attitude changes. So I personally have not been negatively impacted by racism or discrimination. I see it around me on other Hispanics that are not as educated or as fluent in English, and that is a clear distinction. But it's also interesting because at the end of the day I think race is a construct. It can have different meanings. Working at my school - I was in a different building two years ago when we had an elementary school - the elementary school kids would look at me and they consider me as a white person.

Melinda: And were they mainly students of color?

Yeah. So, it's the same school. African immigrants, basically. And they would see me as a white person. And they would express that to me. I had at the time a second job at a large book store chain here in ______and I was the only person of color working at the bookstore. So, there I was a quota of diversity, right? Everyone else was white. So in one day I would go from being considered a white person to being considered a minority person of color. So race with me, it's like, what is it? It's whatever you are, who you are with. It's definitely a matter of perceptions. More than an impact, it's coming to that realization that we can be perceived in more than one way.

Melinda: That's one of the reasons I wanted to ask this too because for a lot of Muslims, their race is ambivalent and there's no box they can really check. In their community all people check different boxes. So I think what you're saying is really pertinent. In one setting you're one race, you're racialized in one way. And then in another setting you're racialized in another way.

Yeah.

Melinda: And it's all a construct. But it's a real experience that you have to deal with at the same time.

Yes. And how also race and culture play together. Because a lot of my group of students identify as Arabs. And then their skin would be dark and we were filling in transportation paperwork for [name of school district] and they only had "white" “African American" and that was the option and we just had to check the African American box, but they do not identify as African American. Even though their skin might be black, but they're like, I am an Arab person.

Melinda: I find Somalis differ on the Arab identity. Are these Somalis?

I think some Somalis identify as Arabs. Some Somalis identify as African. So that's the other thing. We have a big discussion in school right now: "Who are Africans?" Because West Africans are Africans. Somalis identify as Arabs. Especially if they have Italian blood, Italian descent. They would make that distinction. There's a large part of the Somali population that are a lighter brown skin. Their hair is not as coily and they would make that distinction. So racial distinctions among this group that we, or here in the United States, stacked as just one. . .No. Inside this group there is also a lot of discrimination and racial issues as well." (4/27/2018)

"No. And, I'm not American. And maybe that detaches me a little bit about it. But. No. Especially because I believe that there's nothing wrong with being critical about any specific country or nationalistic view. As long as its properly presented and properly argued." (10/11/2017)

Anne

Quotes from interview on 5/15/2017, and member check on 3/9/2018

Decolonizing Eurocentric Curriculum:

"I think there is more awareness of these things [issues of representation], at least that is what districts want communities to believe. It is common to see a "global citizen" element in district mission statements these days. I'm not sure districts are doing much about these issues but I do think there is a higher level of awareness." Survey response (5/9/2017)

Anti-racist Approach:

"So this year we added a perspectives unit. We read "The Other Westmore", and it was also an opportunity for us to read Michelle Alexander, "The New Jim Crow". We read elements of that. Some excerpts of that, about this new Jim Crow of mass incarceration. And then, right after that, we had our modern middle east unit. and so the goal is yes to try to get away from this justification of what we're doing" 5/15/2017

"so we talk about privilege. we talk about how people do not have opportunities. and people resort to things like drug dealing, not because they're bad people, but because they have to feed their family. so we really try to get the kids to think about new things. they get into this new class, and as soon as they get into high school because it is 9th grade.

Melinda: So you give them these analytical lenses first, before the Middle East unit.

Yeah, we do. this is the first year we did it that way, and i think that it worked out well. because we really talked about stereotyping and generalizations and being openminded then we went into the middle east unit. then our last unit is the freedom of individual thought. when we talk about plato's allegory of the cave and not being stuck in a false reality and being able to identify our own ignorance we talk a lot about the word ignorance and how to combat ignorance and how to combat conformity and how our nature is to conform, and what we can do to go against conformity. Those kinds of things." 5/15/2017

Contemporary History and Current Events:

"When I teach a Modern Middle East Unit we start with the European partitioning of the Middle East (Ottoman Empire) after WWI." Survey response (5/9/2017)

"We looked at Balfour Declaration and we looked at the splitting apart of the Ottoman Empire, or the Middle East, after World War One. And how problematic this was because of the different ethnic groups that were living together, are now separated. And we talked specifically about Turkey and how they tried to modernize, but . . . and we also talk about . . i I mean what I see as probably some realities. . are that there is some hatred for the West, and I'm generalizing, but there is this not wanting to modernize in the Middle East because it is a Western idea, because of what's happened historically." (5/15/2017)

What Gives Us the Right to Judge?

"So in our department there are two kinds of thoughts. Teach chronologically. So, teach from the beginning of civilization. So, start with Mesopotamia - that would probably be their thought. And then you've got to teach as current as possible. But that thought is really more of Western history. It's Western thought. The other thought is, which is kinda where I fall: you take atopic, and you pull as much into that topic. So we just had a unit called Freedom of Individual Thought. We read Farenheit 451. We look at censorship in China. We look at genocide in Rwanda and Sudan. We look at McCarthyism in the United States. And so we. . . my idea is, you take an idea, and you bring in as much as possible to help kids to understand that, and to get some depth with it, rather than teaching chronologically. So, the way the Humanities work is that we have these thematic units that we bring different things in. So, the modern middle east unit isn't as thematic. kind of but mostly just studying the modern Middle East. well, we start with Mesopotamia, and then kind of talk about the. how ancient civilizations began then. We look at t a little bit of art. we read Epic of Gilgamesh. And then we talk about the modern Middle East today." (5/15/2017)

Veiling, Gender Norms, and Muslim Feminisms:

"Do you teach about women's rights when you teach about islam?

No. . not so much. so we did watch a video. It's Anthony Bordain. it's food focused, but it's not food-focused... he's in the culture. one of them was in Saudi Arabia, and it was a woman who was leading them around. And a lot of kids were really surprised. and there was like, some issues brought up, that we should have gotten into more detail. it was i mean they talked about how women were segregated from men when they ate. well, if they weren't with their families. if they were single, they had to be segregated from men. and there were a lot of surprises. and there's actually a girl who's doing a research paper on women's rights in Saudi Arabia. It's not something that we went into great detail.

Melinda: Do you think part of that was the difficulty of it?

I would say it was time. I would say the time element, which is a very poor excuse. our focus for the unit was getting the history, talking about why did 9/11 happen. so there was this American tie. and trying to shed a positive light on the Middle East. and honestly I really just need to know more about women's rights in the middle east. and I think that, my fear was, if I get into this subject there isn't a lot of positive things. I guess is my fear. and I could be wrong because i just don't know a ton.

Melinda: I think that's valid.

But rather than bring the subject up and just have a lot of oos and aaahhs and like oh my goodness and how could they do that and then create even more of a monster out of the middle east.

Melinda: yeah. it could quickly backfire. part of the problem with that. just to kind of support you in a way - i think you should include women, but it is difficult because there's just not much out there showing feminist women in the middle east. they are there, but just not in many western. there are TED talks that are useful. really?

Melinda: yeah I can send you. but there just aren't that many materials showing feminists in the Middle East.

Well this Anthony Bourdain video it was a woman. she applied to this contest and one. and she was the only female film director in Saudi Arabia, but then you did see her being separated from men. but I thought it. . you saw her walking him around.

Melinda: kind of normalized. yes." (5/15/2017)

Teacher Identity and Navigating Personal Sharing:

"What we teach in humanities is very liberal, whether our students directly know it as 9th graders or not. I think some of them catch on, but . . their teacher is very liberal, and trying to. . .i'm not trying to change their views. I would but. So that is a struggle. I do fear what they're hearing at home, and what they take home. "This is what my teacher said today." Now I haven't had any issues this year that I can think of where parents. You know 9th graders don't talk to their parents as much. But I've gotten some great emails where they say: "You're really getting our kid to think about things differently." I actually had a kid this morning who said, "I was really conservative before I came to this class, and I feel like my mind is opened more, which are liberal views." And I said I'm sorry I made that so open to you." (5/15/2017)

"One of the biggest challenges for me, in teaching the Middle East, the very few and far between Muslim students that I have in class.

So, in my first class I have one girl who wears hijab, and I have one who'e Muslim but does not wear hijab, but she's more outspoken. But the other one is very quiet, and gets embarrassed if I call on her and say isn't that right? Isn't that reflective about what you know about Islam. She. . maybe I am assuming she should know these things because she's Muslim, but maybe she doesn't.

Melinda: That's true too. Could be.

Then I have a couple. I had a couple boys in the afternoon who are Muslim. And one, again, was outspoken and the other one was very embarrassed, and would not help. Was very embarrassed that his last name was Muhammad. Would not talk about it. It's very sad. But I do fear that that's the culture that's created in the school. I do think it's less and less because [name of town] has grown and it's much more diverse than it used to be. But it is . . .it is a struggle, yeah." (5/15/2017)

"I just think that's such a struggle. I'm a white female. How can I even relate? I've never been to the Middle East. Okay? I've been to Greece. I studied a little bit through my global studies, or my global education courses. It's how I came to know that this was a problem." (5/15/2017)

White Complicity Counter Measures:

"Our kids were just blown away. . . I think they'll remember it forever. . . that empowered some of our Muslim students, too, because you could tell that they just totally admired her. They went up and talked to her afterwards, and they just felt like they were more known because this girl came and talked to them." (5/15/2017)

Towards a More Rigorous Theory on Cultural Perspective-taking:

"I teach this humanities class, which all 9th graders take. I co-teach it with an English teacher. And a lot of the folks, we have a kind of cannon, that we have been teaching for 20 years. We teach the Odyssey. We teach the ancient Greece. Julius Cesar. We teach Ancient Rome, and we talk about democracy. But I would say, in the past two to three years there's been quite a bit of change in that we've tried to bring in different perspectives." (5/15/2017)

" I just think that students are getting their American beliefs and those kinds of things elsewhere, I want to teach them a different perspective. I don't want to teach them things in school that they're going to learn in their own culture. So, I'd rather teach them different perspectives." (5/15/2017)

What we teach in humanities is very liberal, whether our students directly know it as 9th graders or not. I think some of them catch on, but . . their teacher is very liberal and trying to. . .I’m not trying to change their views. I would but. So that is a struggle. I do fear what they're hearing at home, and what they take home. “This is what my teacher said today.” Now I haven't had any issues this year that I can think of where parents. You know 9th graders don't talk to their parents as much. But I've gotten some great emails where they say: "You're really getting our kid to think about things differently." I actually had a kid this morning who said, 'I was really conservative before I came to this class, and I feel like my mind is opened more, which are liberal views.'" (5/15/2017)

“We have in our perspectives unit. The danger of a single story. We talk a lot about that. And. . .the picture that we get of countries that we're unfamiliar with." (5/15/2017)

"In the perspectives unit we talk about how we know what we know. And we talk about how we create generalizations and then we prove them through facts, which is incorrect. more deductive reasoning. but it's through inductive where we take in the facts and then we draw conclusions, so we talk about how do we actually think? how do we gain knowledge?" (5/15/2017)

"We talked specifically about Turkey and how they tried to modernize, but . . . and we also talk about . . I mean what I see as probably some realities. . are that there is some hatred for the West, and I'm generalizing, but there is this not wanting to modernize in the Middle East because it is a Western idea, because of what's happened historically." (5/15/2017)

Bruce

Quotes taken from interview on 9/19/2017, member check on 4/12/2018

Decolonizing Eurocentric Curriculum:

"We talk about cultural psychology and this idea of Third World. How you know when we use that phrase in Third World were kind of implying is that the Western way of doing things is the better way of doing things. And how can you measure. Like, how do you measure Third World. Is it based on GDP? Is it based on [laughs] happiness? I don't know." (9/19/2017)

"Simply put, I believe the views of European imperialist should be included to understand their rationales for their imperial pursuits." Survey response (9/1/2017)

“What gives us the right to judge?”:

"I did a special lesson on 9/11, the psychology of 9/11 a few . . .obviously, a couple days ago. A female. . .I forget what her comment was . . . but it was something along the lines of . . you know, the Islamic faith in general allows for radicalizing. And at that point I just . . I stopped the discussion. I basically addressed that issue deliberately. I said that is that is far from the truth. I forget how I can't remember verbatim, but it was to the point where it kind of was like yeah .. .all of the students were, like, nodding their head agreeing with me, and other students were kind of volunteering their experience of Muslim Americans that kind of thing." (9/19/2017)

"She said that she's done some studies about the Qur'an specifically and she believes that the holy word of the Qur'an allows for radicalizing. And I was like: 'You can have that opinion. That's fine. But you know I think you need to have more experiences with actual Muslim Americans.'" (9/19/2017)

"There's a book called "The Globalization of the American Psyche: Crazy like us" it's all about how our ideas of psychological disorder are wrong. Western perspectives of of psychological disorders are wrong because a lot of psychological disorders depend upon the culture itself. And how we. . . you know, for instance, there wasn't a huge issue with anorexia and bulimia China until Western ideas flooded that country.

When I shared that, they're kind of like: "Yeah. That makes sense." Because, you know, I think . . because a lot of students were agreeing that this idea of being skinny has been glamorized in our society, but it. . .you know . . . that, that . . perhaps, notion of, you know, beauty hasn't made it to other countries, per se. And therefore you don't see rates of anorexia and bulimia in those countries. So. It wasn't until . . i think it was the 1990s they started seeing like eating disorders of that nature in China, or, like, Hong Kong." (9/19/2017)

Veiling, Gender Norms, and Muslim Feminisms:

"A lot of these countries aren't necessarily Muslim countries - that's the thing. It's happening around the world. It's not just Muslim women. I think sometimes our American perspective is is like: "Oh! It's only happening in Arab countries around the world. Muslim-predominant countries, I guess you'd say."(9/19/2017)

"National Geographic partnered with an organization and they're looking at child marriages throughout the world [in documentary "Too Young to Wed"]. You know Afghanistan is highlighted quite a bit. But they also go to other you know place from around the world. They show that Christianity is involved in, you know . . Hindus are also involved in this practice. And to be honest, it's a. . .colonial viewpoint, for the most part, because you know they're saying "Oh! This is a horrible practice" But not until you get into those cultures do you understand why they're doing these things." (9/19/2017)

"In my Intro to Psych class, we discuss a National Geographic Documentary about females marrying at young ages and how Western notions of marriage influence perceptions of Non- Western marriages." Survey response (9/1/2017)

See also, Student Resistance, below (first quote). `

Shock Value:

"I start revealing the fact that you held in this country you know there's been children as young as this have gotten married. And in this country it's happening. And in this country. . . Like: "Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh! Why is this occurring? This is horrible!" when you start looking at the video . . .because there is a video clip that National Geographic has provided that kinda gives it a viewpoint. But I would argue that it's definitely more judgmental. But, you know, after we have those conversations about, you know, why these marriages are occurring then, you know, I think they're more . . . They're balanced more. The students’ views are more balanced." (9/19/2017)

Classroom Responses to the Dominance of Eurocentric and American-Centric Perspectives:

"the one thing I'm afraid of is students' perspectives of things coming in and having the anti- Muslim views so strong that if it if they were to. . .to be honest, I have a very - what I like to consider a very democratic classroom, where I like to hear everyone's voice. I think students feel free to express themselves but I don't want those types of use to be shared openly, and lead to . . .ummmnnn have a snowballing effect, I guess you could say. Where other kids like 'Oh yeah. I agree with that idea.' When you know in truth you can have that idea but that's not based in reality. It's not based on you know actual experiences. It's based on things that they've heard perhaps heard from their parents or things from the media. When they themselves haven't had an experience with a Muslim American, or even to anyone from a Muslim speaking I'm sorry is Islamic-practicing country." (9/19/2017)

White Complicity Counter Measures:

“I admitted [that] when I was a teenager, when I was on certain flights, that I would be looking out for people who looked a certain way. And it took a while for me to get past that.” (9/19/2017)

Teacher Identity and Navigating Personal Sharing:

“I'll tell the students, ‘I'm a Catholic Christian. . . because they discuss multiple religions in diverse cultural contexts” (9/19/2017)

Teaching the Truth of Racism, War, and Occupation:

"When I when I invited that professor to speak specifically on the Ku Klux Klan, obviously he is not in favor of the Ku Klux Klan, but some of the American parents were - when I sent out my sent a letter home saying a was the topic of the presentation that this professor is going to give, a lot of them were thinking that perhaps he was in support of the Ku Klux Klan. So it was kind of interesting days there." (9/19/2017)

"I had a conversation on the phone with those parents saying, "Hey. this is this is what he believes. I've spoken with him. I know him. I am obviously not in favor of the ideology Ku Klux Klan. I've written . . I talked to them. . . I have written a few articles that have been published about Malcolm X's childhood in Michigan." so you so I talked about that a little bit, and how obviously I I'm somewhat understanding of Malcolm X's experience as a child in Michigan, how those experiences shaped him as an adult, and how - and I understand - I don't necessarily agree with them, but I understand - " (9/19/2017)

Student Resistance:

“Yeah. So, in that specific lesson for my college credit plus class like we talk about, you know, food stereotypes. You know, obviously, those are African American food stereotypes. You, know what are some of the stereotypes for Arab Americans, and they'll bring up you know like Greek stereotypes food. And to be honest, I don't really know what Muslims eat for food, even though I live pretty close to large you know Muslim American community of Dearborn which is interesting think about. But we do know what you know Chinese people eat. Or at least we think we know. So it is and should think about that but in American history in the traditional class, like the standardized class, when I talk about 9/11 I do bring in, you know, you know, what it's like to be Muslim American in our society now. And you know provide like NPR recordings about you know Muslim experiences after 9/11. You know, bring that kind of . . .but I don't specifically talk about the female perspective.” (9/19/2017)

“Melinda: It's something that you have to just consider because you're not supposed to combine state and religion in a public school.

Correct. Yes. I'm very I'm very aware that that you know there is that line, but because I'm not like out there saying "hey this is this is what you should be doing." just more so stressing the idea that we shouldn't be discriminating and you know having perceptions of these people in this way they suffer just based off of a few people in the demographic.” (9/19/2017)

"This is 95% you know this region and their whites yeah a suburban like for the fried chicken lesson there were African-American students in my classroom. I don't know if I initially did that because of them because I have experienced no in some kind of discriminatory behavior before in the school setting. So trying to think about instances where I've. . . I guess I haven't done that before . . .because, to be honest, I've never had actually from what I can recall a Muslim American student my classroom. And I've taught here for six years." (9/19/2017)

Caroline

Quotes from Interview on 10/18/2017, and member check on 2/2/2018

Decolonizing Eurocentric Curriculum:

"We discussed the question, 'Why are these countries so far behind?' . . . They're so far behind because we let them be so far behind. We assume that our way of government, and our way business is the correct way. And for years several of those countries just did what we told them to, or did what other countries that were colonizing them told them to. And they were not able to establish their own government, or establish their infrastructure. They possibly could be just as advanced as we consider ourselves if they had the opportunities." (10/18/2017)

"They are familiar with the idea that "the Western way is the right way." And their way is either backward, or rural or basic. They are not familiar with the term imperialist." (10/18/2017)

"My student have lived in countries that are colonized. So Somalia was colonized by Italians. Senegal colonized by the French. And then other countries have had not had colonies much as they have a lot of I guess involvement from other countries. Like, Kenya, Rwanda and Burundi, and those countries.

Melinda:umm hmmnn. Gotcha so they kind of volunteer to share their personal experiences.

Yes. I have students from Kenya. I have some students that have been near the area that we discussed. Although not many of then lived in that area, but certainly they’re familiar with the problems that war brings to countries- how it can decimate infrastructure. How it can or how more and more when corruption can ruin a government. So the government should be protecting the people. There is a government that is so corrupt that rules are not well enough to serve the population. Food is not being distributed well enough to feed the population. Many of them are familiar with those issues, and can give you first-hand accounts of 'We had to leave. We had no food. We were at the refugee center. As refugees we were outsiders, we were pushed aside.'" (10/18/2017)

"So, we talk about developing as 'they are on their way,' 'are progressing.' And developed . . .because they already have a stable government. They already have low population growth. And yet high economic, or high annual income. And they usually have good infrastructure. And they usually have a good . . your your basic things like fire, police, hospitals are well staffed, well- run. well-organized. Whereas in developing countries those things may not be available, or not available to everyone. We talk about how you could be a developed country - like the European countries - go through a war, and shift back because of you know all the destruction become developing again. and you have to build all the backup again. you need a new government. and you need new infrastructure, new buildings. So it's not: 'These countries are always this. These countries are always 'the other.' And we did talk about a few countries who are right in the middle of that bridge. Going from one to the other.'" (10/18/2017)

What Gives Us the Right to Judge?:

"I said, 'So it's OK for me to marry whom ever I want, but it's not OK for other people to marry whomever they want.' And finally they kind of sat back and went: "Oh! It is kind of like that. I want to do whatever I want to do, but I want to limit what I allow them to do." Meanwhile you know, "I am making these choices." So, it is difficult because some of their culture and religious views are different from American laws. And what you are allowed to do here. But if you're already married to somebody, how can you . . .do you have to un-marry them? Like. . .you know, what is the process for? The United States only recognizes the first marriage. So, is has implications for other wives and other children, which, perhaps in a former country had all the rights of a wife and children, and now they don't have all the rights." (10/18/2017)

"We discussed the Hutus and Tootsies. It wasn't until they started getting identification cards, and be treated differently by Europeans that came in, that they started seeing themselves as different." (10/18/2017)

"One group begin to see themselves more educated and superior than the other group, but only because the Europeans told them that they were." (10/18/2017)

"But before then, they knew that they were not really different. But the more that they were told they were different, and the more that they were given different opportunities, and advancements, the more they started accepting that difference." (10/18/2017)

"We did have a lot of people that didn't really understand, like: 'But if they know that they're not different, why did they believe?' Like: 'They know that they're the same, why did they believe in their different . . .' We had a discussion of why do we let people tell us what we are? Or define us? You think about it. You internalize it. 'Do I let people determine . .. do I and do I let people's words how people portray me determine if I really am that person or not.'" (10/18/2017)

Veiling, Gender Norms, and Muslim Feminisms:

"[on National Geographic Magazine images]you know one of the big things was this whole page of all these poor victimized women in this clinic with their babies, who have been raped. And all these babies. And so . . .almost the only picture of women is that picture. The victimized woman who was raped by this militia that's vying for power in the area." (10/18/2017)

"And we discussed how a lot of groups oppress the women. You know, the men go off to fight the war, and then they oppress the women while they're home because that drives a wedge in the family. The man comes home the woman is pregnant. Even though it's not her fault. She's been raped. The man will disown her. And so you have this large group of displaced women that's not at fault and children who are not at fault." (10/18/2017)

"One of my students said, 'I don't like the way my Mom feels like she's like the third wife." So, "I don't want marry someone who already has another wife. I want to marry someone who is only married to me." Of course the boys usually have a different opinion. and some of the boys .. . it's interesting because they have one opinion when it deals with their preferences like so I have his opinion I should be allowed to marry as many women as I want. But I have the opinion that this person should not be allowed to marry this person because they're the same sex, or. . . " (10/18/2017)

White Complicity Counter Measures: "I'm kind of assimilating. . . .[shares account of wedding ceremony of one of her student] They were already married for a week before we had the wedding celebration. Which most of us would think of as just the reception. So, it was all females. A lot of dancing.

So you went ahead and danced?

Yes. Well, they drug me to the front to dance with her. And of course I did. And someone said: 'You don't understand. The first people to dance with her have the highest honor. So, for you to be chosen is a great honor.'" (10/18/2017)

Edmund

Quotes from interview on 10/23/2017, member check on 2/2/2018

Decolonizing Eurocentric Curriculum:

"I'm critical of imperialism. I don't think the students care so much. I'll often talk about why do you think that Africa is in turmoil that's in a lot of the countries there. are civil wars and the people are poor. why is that? sometimes we'll go back and look at how their precious resources were exploited and taken out how the people were treated. and they don't know that. they don't know that history."

"We talk about imperialism, and how it's exploitation. But we do talk about World War II, and how other countries manufacturing was crippled. How America was the only one producing. How that made a lot of money for us. We talk about coming to power in terms like that, for America specifically."

Anti-racist Approach to Decolonizing Curriculum:

"In my senior class, we're reading "Passing" It is a great book about women of color that are pale, so they can pass as white and doing that in the 1920s and 30s. . . . .[we discussed] Whatever you feel like you need to cover up because of societal pressure. Which is a great book for those . . . students usually respond to, and it brings a lot of conversations like those."

"I actually had a conversation. I had a student that said that the reason there weren't more Black people in college and making money is because they're lazy. . . he goes: well I mean the laws are the same for everyone and we're equal, and we all have an equal chance. So then we had to have a conversation about systematic racism, and how the redlining during the New Deal made it impossible for black families to get property. And now later down the years they don't have that equity to cash in on. and it makes it harder for them. So maybe they don't want to live in the ghetto, but they don't have a choice. they can't afford to get out. So it's not really that are lazy. They just don't have the opportunities that families in the past were given. Because those things carry on with you. Which was a great conversation.I was like what if I gave you dollar in 1920 and I gave your friend $10,000 and in 100 years you take it out of the bank. Who do things and have a lot more money? He's like but the laws are equal, and you have the same chances. He's like, well that doesn't seem fair."

"a lot of them don't view themselves as Black Americans. And I have to kind of tell them when other people see you, they will probably view you as a Black person. and that's another prejudice, preparing them for a prejudice and they didn't even think themselves facing, on top of their religion. It's a lot a lot. It's a lot for them sometimes to process."

"We're doing "Passing" [novel] because a lot of them were having issues with race and digesting that. so we researched the Harlem Renaissance a little bit. started reading authors from that time period. Looking at how Black authors handled themselves, what they were experiencing at the time, and how it relates to today. and they resonate with that. I think anytime you just take their interest and can relate it to the lessons, it's very important. It does make for a good class discussion, though. Having all the polarizing views."

Deconstructing Jihadi Terrorist Stereotype:

"we look at how someone might come, and set off a bomb in America; it's a terrorist attack. but if America was to bomb a city somewhere else it's viewed as they were killing the terrorists. It's a good thing. despite how many innocent people have died. Then why is it framed America is doing a good thing? when some comes and bombs us, it's framed as a bad thing. Why do you think that is? They like that."

Contemporary History and Current Events:

"we talked about the travel ban list that went into effect, what was that, a couple months ago. And we kind of related it back to the 9/11 discussion about why are these certain countries targeted."

Gender/feminist lenses of analysis:

"we read some feminist texts, and then we have to discuss. we just actually read a great short story, piece, called "Sweat" by Zora Neale Hurston. We used that piece to kind of frame the conversation around gender roles. It's from the Harlem Renaissance. Although some of them see some of them maybe more than some, maybe most of them identify more with their Islam background than their Black background. They see themselves more as Muslim person than as a Black person. They maybe have been less exposed to racism because they are able to stay in a safe school."

"when we were reading "Sweat" I was talking about the woman was the one doing all the work, and making the money. And I said why might this be important in the 1920s, in literature? And they’re like because the woman’s making the money and that’s weird."

"they don't have to wear one[veil]. but there's definitely . . . we’ve had discussions about this. there’s pressure to do it. So there’s some girls who might not necessarily want to, but when they come, when everyone else is wearing one, and they feel that’s the expectation, of pressure on them. which for me was just so insanely opposite both my experience so it's kind of interesting to go through that with them. but some of the girls now. . . back when I first started I had them at sophomores, now I have them as seniors, they just . . .some girls . . .They’re done. They’ve grown out of it. They’re comfortable with who they are.

The Dominance of Eurocentric and American-centric Perspectives:

"So it's kind of a dilemma when you're as a white person you notice they say some things which are problematic. what kind of things do they say. . . The big one is the "N" word. They love that word. I just caution them. I'm like I can't tell you not to say it I caution you to be aware when you say it. After a while we kind of do some research into that and I show them the gravity."

"We also talk about 'Why is America in charge of the United Nations?' and we can do something to get away with it. But other countries get embargoed or sanctioned. Why is it that we kind of have a pass on things and other countries don't."

"They're pretty surprised of like how often the way that we look at things comes from Western culture. We talk about it a lot. Like when I say: 'this is something you see a lot in literature, I will say something to see a lot in Western literature.' I try to be very specific about what literatures we're talking about."

"They're pretty surprised of like how often the way that we look at things comes from Western culture. We talk about it a lot. Like when I say: 'this is something you see a lot in literature, I will say something to see a lot in Western literature.' I try to be very specific about what literatures we're talking about. Because I think that is a problem where we tend to think of as Western and it is the world."

"Something else that also really shocked them was how small Europe is on the map. They always had an in their head of like this big nation."

"I have them research if we're particularly stuck on a topic we'll research it out, and do presentations on in. For sure. I love bringing student interest into it. That's why I love ELA because it is so easy to do. they're inquiring. They're researching. So it makes it easy to bring in. It makes it easy to bring in whatever they want to talk about."

Teacher Identity and Navigating Personal Sharing:

"I just tell them very factually what it is. and then that might spur a discussion. and I will often discuss all the viewpoints. I don't ever like to take a stance. I don't like to . . .I try to steer away from influencing my students based on what I think on their own opinion. I am very careful not to use stereotypical language or anything like that. . .I try very much to give them all viewpoints on all sides and let them make their own choice."

"That's just so against my belief system. . . I am just never been one to push things on other people. I like them to make their own choices, and be responsible for their own actions."

"they certainly have ideas on what I am and am not. I think when they see me they think, you know, white male Christian dude."

Teaching the Truth of Racism, War, and Occupation:

"There's lot of different things [we do to process difficult topics like the Islamophobia or racism they encounter in U.S. society]. One my favorites is a write chat.

Melinda: A write chat?

A write chat. writing. which is great because you can put up . . . have multiple stations and they're not allowed to talk. they can just go kind of read the question or the article. and they have to write their own opinion about it. and then they can kind of go through and see what everyone else wrote. And i let them respond to people, but if they respond, they have to say whether they agree or disagree, and at the back it up with a fact. and then at the end, we have all these ideas on paper. kind of go through them. and recycle all the different ideas. and before we even have the discussion everyone's kind of seen how everyone else is thinking. so it is a great way for them to kind of learn proper discussion, while also getting all their ideas and thoughts out."

Lived Experiences of Islamophobia in Curriculum:

When we had our teachers’ night, which is the McDonald's fundraiser for the school. The one we usually went to was closed. So, we went to the one down on [gives location], like right on the edge of [upper middle class neighborhood]. There was a guy in line who said, “Wow, the property values must really be going down!” because a large number of our students that were in the restaurant. So, even though you think an area might be accepting there's definitely still people out there that are going to cast prejudice on our students. And that's disheartening for me” (10/23/2017).

"One that really got me was last year during 9/11 they never heard of Muslimphobia. And they didn't know the real thing. And that was so surprising to them that people will be afraid Muslims . . .So we had to have a dialogue about, you know, the history of the country at that time. Why that phobia came into existence."

"They almost . . . I got a sense of . . felt embarrassed because of what those people had done. And that was hard for me to sit and 'No. No. No. I am not trying to shame you, or make you feel embarrassed.' It was a hard conversation to have."

"I know a lot of them are just confused, and they would say like why would you be afraid? Do you think we're - what do people thing we're going to do? And they just don't understand that people equate the religion and the nationality with terrorism. They just couldn't understand that. I am pretty sure some of them left skeptical of me. Not quite believing that was true."

Frank

Quotes from interview on 9/22/2017

Decolonizing Eurocentric Curriculum:

"I think it all relates to one of the things you said in there about when you talk about other cultures, and non-American cultures even, that very generally the object and the subject is still the Western worldview, or the American worldview of things. I agree with some of those things more than others, I definitely there's opportunity to . . . for some leeway in terms of whether you emphasize imperialism as being dead, or whether you frame another culture as being less than, I think you mentioned, or different, or emphasizing differences, I think that can more come down to particular teachers over curriculum. I don't think the curriculum intends to be specific to that, at least. Although, I can see areas being that way. so I guess we should just maybe talk about curriculum for a second here. So, do you use textbooks, plus other things? do you write your own curriculum? I mean where where are you seeing this kind of objectification happening? Or where do you tend to try to mitigate it?

I mean, what we operate from mainly the Ohio standards. The state standards for each class. So within that we're trying to teach towards the AIR test, or the standardized test ends up being . . . there's a textbook for any class, but I don't personally use the textbooks hardly at all. The textbooks are outdated in a system like, Columbus City Schools, and. . in any case, I think they would fall short of the reality we had then, or the reality we have today. Umm. . So, and how I approach those things . .. there is a curriculum that I definitely want to teach to, but I think there's opportunity within that to be able to give a different perspective. How we can view different backgrounds, or different people groups.

OK. Gotcha. so even though you're, you're pretty constrained because that there's tests students really have to pass, there's still ways to I guess get the message across using . . .

Yeah, but I mean, that right. That's dependent on the teacher. I mean, that comes from . . .I mean anything I teach more specific to how we could look at those people. How we could look at whatever . .even America. I try to have a more broad perspective, and students have the consider why might we look at people this way? You know, if they're across the world. And as much of the globalization of media, of social media, and those sorts of things change things, I have an opportunity at [name of school]______to teach to kids who know other people who are from different backgrounds. Who are from the Middle East. Who practice Islam. So, we have a school where people are able to see that just because someone looks different and has a different background, that they aren't that much different. So, kind of within that, I'm able to teach it, but again, that comes from my perspective on those issues, as well. You know, I think as anything does. . not that I try to place politics in there, in my curriculum, but I do I think it's necessary. When you have especially a subgroup like Muslim Americans now that the perception of Muslim American culture is very affected by media. and it's very limited. And it's overwhelmed by radical extremists, rather than the reality of Islam is, or what Middle Eastern people are. Or why even we got to this point, where we're concerned about this. So, I think some of the questions that you asked related to that. And yeah, 9/11, in the past, I've taken that opportunity to make sure that students are aware of the history of our interactions with the Middle East. And not in any way to validate that anything that happened there. But to make sure that they're aware of why people might that they might disagree with, believe what they believe. That maybe we we obviously should disagree with the outcome of something like 9/11, but the reason why that happened and an understanding that there isn't this conspiracy surrounding it. And that there are reasons why, and valid reasons, why people in the Middle East distrust Western cultures, and continued to trust Western cultures. I think about something that I. . . is not necessarily stated in the curriculum, but especially given the background of the students I have, I want to make sure that that's evident to my students. That they're aware that what you might see in media, or what you might hear is not representative of the whole. And in any case, that's not how . . we shouldn't categorize people, especially that we have not met many of personally, and just a huge group and say they're all this way. Particularly with Islam in America today, I think you've got a great opportunity to make people aware that what we see is not always what the reality is.

Could you tell me more about the opportunities? I mean, you mentioned 9/11 was an opportunity. Are there any other opportunities to come to mind that you remember , or that you want to share?

I mean you have things like the Israel/Palestine ongoing conflict that is part of the curriculum for world history class. And then also those issues can come up . . . I've taught government in the past and I bring up those issues there. Because, again, the prevailing view in America we get mostly, almost exclusively pro-Israel type of sentiments coming out, but that doesn't portray the reality of what's going on there, or the two sidedness of an issue like that. Or, 1948 Israel becoming a state, and how World War II led to that. You know there's so much wonderful history that leads into that. That it's important to understand as a whole. And especially, even something like 9/11, I try to break down to them exactly why - you know, to them - the lines on the map are what they are, and how those decisions of the people in those areas, when you look at Africa and the Middle East, they didn't get to decide what their country was. And therefore when you look at why a place like Iraq might not be ruled in a way that we agree with, or, why people are having this conflict, and in-fighting. The civil wars. That's the result of imperialist practices, and therefore we can still look at the outcomes of those today. I mean if we think the results of imperialism are gone, I think that we're missing a huge part of history." (9/22/2017)

Deconstructing Jihadi Terrorist Narratives:

"Terrorism is not determinant upon the race of someone who committed it. And it's strange we've gotten to this point where that's a connection I think most people would make. So, to dissociate that, I feel no hesitation about that." (9/22/2017)

"If we don't want to be defined by what some people that look like, or look similar to us, or believe something similar to us. . . .if we don't want to be defined by what that group is, then why are we doing it with another group? And how much effort have you made to understand them as something more than that? to understand Islam is something more than that. And especially when you look at . . .it's so sad that that's the view because. . we just had to - we didn't have to, we did - and we shouldn't have to - and that is not - I mean, I guess I probably would say - but we just shut down the." (9/22/2017)

Colonizing Dynamics of What We Know:

"Because people just perpetuate their own beliefs. One of my favorite quotes to give my students . . to give to anybody I run into is "A man can not learn what he thinks he already knows." And, that to me suggest that we should always be searching for more. Whether or not you're fully validating your opinions. i mean we should still be interested in the other, we should still be trying to understand. If we truly care to learn. if we truly care about other people. If we are truly interested in life, we should be trying to figure out why other people believe what they believe. No matter what it is, as long as they're reasonable. But if we're perpetuating our own belief systems, then we're never going to get out of the mire that we're in.

We're talking about a group of people who don't know anything about it. And sadly what I think we've done. . .what I think some schools have done, at least, is that we assume they've lived it because we have. And we don't then teach to it, and when we do teach to it we don't . . . and I don't mean to make 9/11 the definitive Muslim Amer. . .but when we talk about the view that people have of Islam in America today."

Contemporary History and Current Events:

"I use current events often in my class. Especially, when I taught government last year. So, there was a . . among the many things Ben Carson said that he didn't believe that the Qur'an had any place in American politics. And I told my students that I don't think he knows very much about the Qur'an and I know he doesn't know much about the constitution. Because the constitution - when it says there can be no religious tests, that is something that we've gotten away from. If we're complaining about me teaching that Islam isn't a horrible thing, that at its roots. and we're not complaining that Islam should not be in American politics we've gotten into a weird place. And one that I feel responsible for making sure I teach to that because there's nothing . . .i mean, you could say that with any religion I think, if you look at it. Ben Carson is just trying to get a base. He is trying to do the same thing that Trump had so much success with. It's not based in reason. It's based on the emotion of the people, because people vote based on emotion. And, that's how we've gotten to where we are, and I don't want that to be the future. Right? And so, I, again. My students should be basing their thoughts and opinions on reason. They're still opinions, but if you can't state the reason to have the opinion, then your opinion is meaningless." (9/22/2017)

"Yeah. I feel very concerned about the . . the divide. Especially since the election, that if you say the wrong thing suddenly your on the wrong side, and it doesn't matter if you're a questioning person, or if you just want to know the truth if you say anything that slightly makes it sound that you're not condemning Islam, or you're not condemning Trump. Or you're not condemning. . . it's this very." (9/22/2017)

"We are not allowing people to come from those countries. And then I would ask, "Why do you think they want to come from those countries? Because they don't want to be with those people either!" They are being hurt more by radical Islam than we have ever been. And to then generalize them with the people that are hurting them so much is . . it's offensive. And I have no qualms in trying to make my students understand that." (9/22/2017)

Imperialism as Israeli Occupation:

"It's very important history, because when you look at Israel/Palestine as an example. When you look at Israel, and again, so much interesting history that I want them to connect to, and I want them to see the results of war long-term. Because we're looking at the consequences of Jews having to leave Europe, and find a new homeland, and their new homeland. . they found their old homeland. And that idea. And so much goes with that because when we talk about imperialism, a lot of the reasons imperialism. . . where it came from and where it went was because the people who did it had outlined what land they want. What government they have set p over that land. And it's a very. you know, I think you asked a question about first world, versus third world? And within that, I want to make sure they understand what the actual definitions of those terms are, because we're talking about areas that industrialized first. And then if we look at the outcomes of that industrializing first, and what it look like to try to become an industrialized nation when you're competing against already successful industrialized nations, a lot of instances have more natural resources in the first place. And who have already taken the natural resources would be areas that are now trying to industrialize. I mean, that is what makes history history. It's all about outcomes. It's all about the effects of different things. So, when you look at Israel/Palestine it's not limited to Israel/Palestine, the way I see it. Because you take the Palestinians that have been now pushed out of the area that they call their home. Whether they defined it in the sense that the UN or the US accepts - those sorts of things - they definitely were there, and they definitely believed that was their home. And they understood it to be that. So it's funny how we look at. . "You know. Palestine wasn't really a country." OK. But, did people live there? And did people identify together, and those sorts of things? So, it's interesting in that regard, but also you see when Palestinians have to leave Palestine now, this affects the rest of the Middle East. When you look at . . .when we're talking about Syria, and as much as we need to talk about Syria and things like current events. What's happening there. Israel/Palestine goes hand-in-hand with that because we're looking at . . .I tell them: "You relate it to. . .Trump wants to build this wall because we're a country, where we are as successful as we are, and people are still doing fine, we're concerned about job limitations. And we're concerned about losing some of our money to immigrants. Now you take that. And you put that over there. And instead of looking at Mexico and the U.S., you look at Palestinians flooding into areas like Syria. Because they have to. And we're not looking at just Palestine being affected by this; we're looking at large areas of the Middle East, like, Syria, Jordan, where people will have to emigrate, because they're forced out by Israel. And yet, when. . . .then, when you look at attacks from Palestine, we can maybe look at it less as attacks out of being primitive, or being this, or that, or the other, and we can look at them potentially as defense mechanisms."

What Gives Us the Right to Judge?:

"I mentioned that we look at 'the other' as an object. As, you know, we're American-centric, or, there's. . .So, subject is American and the object. . we're always talking about them as 'the other' so that is not. . .I want to try to step out of that. I mean, my worldview from a young age has been to try to have a perspective that can incorporate as many perspectives as possible. so, I want to impart that in my students because I think that is what - again - leads you to being a good citizen, and being able to do that without my being at your back later in life, telling you to. I can ingrain it in you.

Melinda: So, you're giving them sort of tools or lenses for analysis that you hope they will take on board?

Right. Any regard. . You can look at any group and say: "I'm not going to assign. . ." Whether it's a whole group or race, religion. Whatever it may be, even a rival school. Something as simple as that and not say "All of them are this." Because that is. . . I mean, look at where we are in America today. You know?" (9/22/2018)

Veiling, Gender, and Muslim Feminisms

Frank:

"you take someone like ____ [- his student who I know who wears the hijab - ] that my students get to see. And you can see that oppression isn't something that defines someone in a negative way. Like you take, [same student], and you can see that oppression can be something that can make you great. You know, that adversity is something that can challenge you to become better.

"I have mentioned feminism as - in how - to complain more about how like not being able to dress as provocatively as you want. Which is a valid complaint. Like, there is a law in

Kentucky that if you're between like, what? Like, 120 and 200 pounds you can't were a bikini while driving. If you're a woman." And I bring that up to them.

To put your God above you, and to express that in your dress is not to say that you don't believe women should have equality.

[laughs]

And I say: "Why do you think this is a law?" And I go like, "Why do you think this is a law?" Because I am showing them, like, stupid laws. I forget what . . .but I'm like "Why do you think this is a law?"

And they're like, "Because of the men! Because the men are so pre.. . and we're punishing the women for it.".

If feminism is a complaint more about being able to wear certain things then it is about being able to get a type of job, or being able to be looked at as being as capable of doing anything.

Then it's lost it's . . . you know what I mean. So think that's where there could be a disconnect because you could say, "Muslim women aren't feminists because look at how they dress."

"To put your God above you, and to express that in your dress is not to say that you don't believe women should have equality."

Teacher Religious Identity and Navigating Personal Sharing:

"Melinda: Do you ever . . .and you also mentioned that you're a Christian, and I am just curious, do you say that, as well, in the class, in a very upfront way?

No. I don't. There are times it could come up in my mentioning having been at church, but no I don't feel. . . as much as I don't feel that putting my politics on my students is something . . .i do believe. I mean, I guess I'd probably be a funny type of Christian because I don't believe that shouting Christ with everything you do is the way to bring people to him. It's just living a life that reflects him well. And if I look at his life. He loves people. And he loved a Samarian woman. You know what I mean? And that's not something that . . .again, if you look at modern Christianity, I think that there are valid complaints, from the same people we're talking about here, valid complaints about Christianity. You know? In the Middle East you have very valid complaints about evils perpetrated by Christians in the name of Christ." (9/22/2017)

Lived Experiences of Islamophobia as a Part of Curriculum:

"Yeah, but I mean, that right. That's dependent on the teacher. I mean, that comes from . . .I mean anything I teach more specific to how we could look at those people. How we could look at whatever . .even America. I try to have a more broad perspective, and students have the consider why might we look at people this way? You know, if they're across the world. And as much of the globalization of media, of social media, and those sorts of things change things, I have an opportunity at [name of school]______to teach to kids who know other people who are from different backgrounds. Who are from the Middle East. Who practice Islam. So, we have a school where people are able to see that just because someone looks different and has a different background, that they aren't that much different. So, kind of within that, I'm able to teach it, but again, that comes from my perspective on those issues, as well. You know, I think as anything does. . not that I try to place politics in there, in my curriculum, but I do I think it's necessary. When you have especially a subgroup like Muslim Americans now that the perception of Muslim American culture is very affected by media. and it's very limited. And it's overwhelmed by radical extremists, rather than the reality of Islam is, or what Middle Eastern people are. Or why even we got to this point, where we're concerned about this. So, I think some of the questions that you asked related to that. And yeah, 9/11, in the past, I've taken that opportunity to make sure that students are aware of the history of our interactions with the Middle East. And not in any way to validate that anything that happened there. But to make sure that they're aware of why people might that they might disagree with, believe what they believe. That maybe we we obviously should disagree with the outcome of something like 9/11, but the reason why that happened and an understanding that there isn't this conspiracy surrounding it. And that there are reasons why, and valid reasons, why people in the Middle East distrust Western cultures, and continued to trust Western cultures. I think about something that I. . . is not necessarily stated in the curriculum, but especially given the background of the students I have, I want to make sure that that's evident to my students. That they're aware that what you might see in media, or what you might hear is not representative of the whole. And in any case, that's not how . . we shouldn't categorize people, especially that we have not met many of personally, and just a huge group and say they're all this way. Particularly with Islam in America today, I think you've got a great opportunity to make people aware that what we see is not always what the reality is." (9/22/2017)

Henry

Quotes from Interview on 2/13/2017, and member check on 2/21/2018

Interview Methodology:

“The hesitations [you asked me about] helped me get out the challenges I was facing and thinking about.” (3/3/2018 - Email)

How the Respondents of this Study Conceptualize Curriculum:

""It's part of our mission of the humanities program. There's "what is it to be human?" but there's also this idea of you know. There's kind of a social justice theme that runs through the courses. I feel like every year it's important to teach about race. You know talk about race relations. We talk about gender. We talk about LGBT. So these things come out. It's becoming part of a unit which is like teaching teaching tolerance teaching through an antibias framework. Teaching about the history of injustice, where it comes from. Why it still exist today. Why it's important to know about it. So you can combat it. In some ways, you know, Islam falls absolutely within that theme. not just. . . aiming to understand. Get that we're all human. In a nutshell." (2/13/2017)

"Middle school kids care about fairness. You know, they want to be. . they don't think it's fair you know that black people have a second treatment in society. They don't think it's fair that women are harassed. . . all these things come up. you know, so. you know, most students would pride themselves on being accepting. you know? they want people to have a fair life. It's something that most can . . latch onto. . with a simple question like is this is fair? you know you, you can ask that question in any of the units." (2/13/2017)

Curricular Data:

One source I was looking at in terms of like. . .It’s from a textbook. It’s a classic Middle Eastern African History, 600-1500. One of the chapters is called “the Sword of Allah” It’s about Muslim expansion under ‘Umar, soon after the death of the prophet. I was asking the kids. . .We’re going to discuss this today. Is this title, is it problematic? Looking at how Islam spread? Is this a stereotype? Just looking at militarization of Islam, as the way Westerners look at it. As I copied the reading and we read it, I wanted to discuss, is it somehow problematic, and talk about: Is this description helpful? The title is not helpful? This will be one of our discussions this week. (2/13/2017)

Decolonizing Eurocentric Curriculum:

"In teaching about Imperial Rome, we taught about the Romans' strategy to "make peace through war" and their belief that their culture was the most superior in the land." Survey response (2/7/2017)

Deconstructing Jihadi Terrorist Narratives and Images of a Violent Other:

"The number one [stereotype I focus on] is Muslims being terrorists. I ask them what that looks like. The vast majority of Muslims are not terrorists. I think that's something that’s almost equatable: Muslims and terrorism. um the documentary. . . how Muslims are depicted. I want them to be aware of media, depictions of the power of media, as well. Our final project - my other colleague and I - are going to do is sort of an anti-Islamophobic sort of project-based learning, which they're going to create like posters or videos or something that preaches tolerance and acceptance. That will be our end project." (2/13/2017)

"What they really want to know is where does Islamic terrorism come in? Where does Islamophobia come from? What I’m trying to do is build toward that with a of the early origins of Islam. We are trying to give them some context and framework of where this happened. And really look at the connections between Muhammad’s teaching and looking at the connections between the monotheistic faiths. Talking about Judaism, Christianity, and the commonalities they had, and the basis in Muhammad’s real life." (2/13/2017)

"because terrorism gets focused on so much. . we're focusing on this other majority of the history people." (2/13/2017)

See above also, under "Curricular Data.

Teaching About self/Other Through a Culture's Creativity and Science:

"Because I have a film background from NYU and did the culture and media program, I was able to work on a few documentaries. I use a couple. One of my cohorts, her PhD was women media and Islam. So we did a short documentary called “Fashioning Faith” basically I got to work on with her. We met with fashion designers in New York City talking about Muslim fashion, talking about the hijab and the scarf, you know the I think that was a really important source, even for six graders, in terms of the humanizing and showing the hijab is nothing to be afraid of. It’s just a really powerful source in terms of showing women who are in the fashion industry making Islamic fashion." (2/13/2017)

"That sort of demystifies the thing for them. You know what the veil is. you know I think because also a member of diverse women in there, like that woman is African-American. there is a woman who is a fashion designer, she is like South Asian. there is, you know, the main sort of protagonist is a young African-American Muslim fashion designer. So, I think in some way they see you know again, just like, these are, you know, normal women. You know who or who are Muslim and they’re fashion designers, and I think it demystifies the veil. It makes the veil more normal." (2/13/2017)

"A key touch point would be The House of Wisdom. The Golden Age. A lot of them don't know about that. When open science and critical thought and translations were all happening in Baghdad, and in Southern Spain. They‚are surprised a little about it, and they get fired up on how these guys were philosophers and scientists. And using of the scientific method."

"There is an episode of Cosmos with Neil Degrasse Tyson, it’s all about optics and talks about AlHaytham. So I brought that in and showed how this is connected to science and the scientific method and early discoveries in optics."

Gender, the Veil, and Feminisms:

"You know in the video that I show, the “Fashioning Faith” video, there's a woman. She's got this great quote about people see me wearing this veil, and they think I'm oppressed. They think I'm depressed. They talk to me in baby talk. They think I'm some foreigner. Like yeah you know this is a style of dress. This is something that we you know wear to identify ourselves as part of a community. . as Muslims, you know. . . .this is not what the veil is about. It's not about being oppressed. I think for kids to see that, that's pretty powerful." (2/13/2017)

"I had a young student in my class and she said you know in Iran you have to wear it. Alright, you've got these hardliner governments, you've got these extremist interpretations. and in Iran where it's forced, you know what do you think about that? and in Turkey, you know, at the opposite end. You know, women can't wear the veil in public institutions. So there's different. . looking at like Saudi Arabia and Iran, conservative countries like that, how do you separate that from Islam? That's part of Islam, too, you know. Saudi women Cannot drive. And you know that uh you know, women have to cover up in Iran. like those are those are very conservative extreme interpretations of . . but they're there." (2/13/2017)

"I talked to them a little about how their speaking about . . the Muslim feminist, who really are looking at, you know, Muhammad's words, they're looking at the context of .. .um. . you know, the historical context of when this was written. But we haven't gotten into feminism yet, but like I want to get more into, like, Iran. And sort of like woman there I think we could go a little further in terms of their understanding of. . yeah . . what's been. you know, women in Islam - what does that mean? I mean the diversity of perspectives, that there are. so yeah we we haven't done that great detail, but I hope to do that in the coming weeks." (2/13/2017)

""You know in the video that I show, the “Fashioning Faith” video, there's a woman. She's got this great quote about people see me wearing this veil, and they think I'm oppressed. They think I'm depressed. They talk to me in baby talk. They think I'm some foreigner. Like yeah you know this is a style of dress. This is something that we you know wear to identify ourselves as part of a community. . as Muslims, you know. . . .this is not what the veil is about. It's not about being oppressed. I think for kids to see that, that's pretty powerful." (2/13/2017)

Contemporary History and Current Events:

"Yes. It’s tied to identity. And I guess too . . as you move forward, I want them to have a grasp of what the history of the origins of the religion are. So that they’re not just getting media depictions, you know, from what they hear or see. Because you’re countering you know a lot of - of course - what’s the fear. and because in the era of Trump and xenophobia, you know the stuff with refugees, stuff happening in current events with immigration, about outsiders, etc, etc. So. Uh. . you're looking at that. . . we're into this documentary Empire of Faith, narrated by Ben Kingsley. . . and we're kind of slowly going through that. and we're looking at the history of maybe where the stereotypes come in, is from the Crusades. The Crusades as sort of a point of view that's European, When you said like Middle Eastern tension and conflict, some of that today comes from the way Muslims were depicted in those wars." (2/13/2017)

“What gives us the right to judge?”:

"'Destiny Disrupted' - have you heard of that? It's kind of a reorientation. . . we had our kids read the introduction. It's all about like . . it's by an Afghani and a Muslim scholar who's talking about his writing textbooks in Texas. And it just talks about how in the West, the US, Islam is glossed over, it gets like one chapter out of like 33 chapters in the textbook. So part of like combatting you know Islamophobia, is like - almost like the omission of Muslim history. And you're talking about all the stories and that's you're fascinated by it. If it's like something a few privileged people in education know learn about this. It's just not as. . you know this isn't some tucked away, small religion. This is, you know, the world's no the world it's kind of get short shrift in textbooks and so this book kind of reorients Islamic history in that context of kind of problematizing Western views of what Islam is. And how in the Muslim world, this is like the center of history. It's like one of the key points of history, of how Islam shaped the three continents." (2/13/2017)

"I don't have many Muslim students; I can count one, actually. The way some of the kids responded to something. . . he took something as disrespectful in the way that they had said something about Muhammad. Like, casually talking. So it was interesting, too, to think about how my teaching this, you know, religion to someone who's already Muslim and I'm not. An interesting sort of subconsciousness there. But for the most part it's non-Muslim teacher teaching about this religion to you mostly non-Muslims. I say I am not advocating. I'm not trying to proselytize. I'm presenting religions as sacred stories that the believers believe in whatever religion they are. Whether you are an atheist, or a Christian or Muslim. These are stories I am teaching as cultural stories, as well, and sacred stories to those who follow." (2/13/2017)

"Yeah, I asked them, what you think? The kids raised their hands and said This just shows Muslims as being human. In the six grader way of saying it is “it shows that they’re normal”. What they mean is . . .not to be feared, taking a way “the otherness”. I think that the normalization of Muslims as human beings was a big take-away for them." (2/13/2017)

White Complicity Counter Measures:

"As a straight white male, your default mode is complicit with dominant narratives unless you've done the work. After doing the work, you see those ways of thinking are so ingrained." (2/21/2018)

Student Resistance:

See under "Deconstructing Jihadi Terrorist Narratives," first quote.

See also in next section,

Imperialism as Israeli Occupation:

"One thing I haven't gotten into in sixth grade is like Israel-Palestine. We did a - I really stress geography, so the kids just took a map quiz of like countries, and you know, the extended Middle East. You know, we even talk about what that term means "The Middle East". . . . like how it's arbitrary. But you know a lot of Muslim-majority countries like you know North Africa, East Africa into Asia. It's also part, like knowing to initiate . . . knowing this part of the world. Knowing the Central Asian republics. Knowing the Arabian Peninsula. Looking at these maps of . . .the map of the area. But one kid was talking about - you know, this is really from a Jewish or an Israeli perspective - ‘Palestine? That shouldn't be on the map. That shouldn't be on our quiz. That's part of Israel.’ Then we had discussion about, ‘Well, actually, I think it's important to know this is a disputed area.’ Sort of at least touch on that this is a really controversial - one of the most controversial and difficult,- you know, relations in the Middle East. It is the Palestinian Israeli question which people have a lot of feelings about. So. I am not teaching a lesson on that but I do lean into . . . this is a serious issue but we’ll cover it. And I guess I just wonder if I should? How much time do we have to cover you know about . . that's something I can kind of like think about." (2/13/2017)

"Melinda: how, if at all, how would that connect to countering Islamophobia? has it at all? Like in terms of Muslim identity and Palestinian identity.

Henry: we haven't haven't talked about Palestinian identity, really. We just kind of touched on the larger story, a larger class to talk about Israel and Palestine.

Melinda: so you would need more time.

Henry: yeah I would be more time. I mean it's addressed in Reel Bad Arabs. He has a segment about Palestinians being dehumanized, and we never see them as human. We do talk about that. You know. And what's interesting is that actually, [name of student], the same kid who umm. . I am just remembering this. when we were watching that, he was. he asked me how come they didn't show the Palestinians killing people and killing Jews, though. And I was like, well, this documentary is about humanizing Palestinians. and he was like wondering - kind of from an Israeli standpoint - like why they didn't talk about in the documentary the Palestinians had committed terrorist acts.

Henry: He's kind of precocious. So you know I don't know what he's been taught at home. But you know there was something you know about that he had in his mind that the Palestinians were terrorist. So, I mean, we didn't show that in the film.

Yes. So that was challenging for him.

Henry: Yes." (2/13/2017)

Discussion of Findings:

Yeah. I like that. so I think that the Muslim world this is the center of history.

Henry: right right so it's a kind of moving the center toward like an insider's perspective are like yeah like rather than looking at Islam from the outside trying to go within it in the center Islamic history to study Islam.

Henry: Yeah. absolutely.

Yeah that's really interesting that that you take that approach actually because there's different approaches that you can take you could maybe take a more global perspective and talk about globalization or take an American foreign policy approach which I think in a lot of sort of more political science oriented teachers take that route.

Henry: right. Which is still getting the American perspective. yeah. yeah yeah yeah so basically, it must take a lot of work to do that though.

Henry: [laughs out loud]" (2/13/2017)

James

Quotes from interview on 4/18/2017

Gender:

Melinda: do you talk about gender and what it means and how it's culturally formed?

That's a great question. And I, like with all teachers. We all. We try really hard to make sure we are covering different types of topics as possible, as I reflect on it I think I probably . . I don't spend as much time on gender. And, digging down deep and looking at complexities of it. And looking at different layers of it that I should. I probably spend more time talking about race and religion and maybe culture broadly understood. But when we read Persepolis. that's a really. students enjoy reading about it. and then as we kind of get in to the Iranian Revolution and we look at that transformation. she has to cover her hair just to go to school and as her parents try to continue their life. . .

Melinda: Umm hmmn.

While also trying not to get in trouble we ask "how would the story be different, based on what we know if Margie was a male?" like . . would. . would her parents have sent a male child away? Or was it because . . because of what we can understand or what we know about her gender. So we defnitely explore that. . and then

Melinda: Do the guys relate to that story? Even though it's from a girls perspective?

Yep. Yeah, I have not seen any significant or remarkable sort of like or dislike to the protagonist being female. It's more the medium of the graphic novel.

Melinda: Ok

That students get tripped up or like. And then. In the Kite Runner, there's not that many female characters in that novel. And students they really do like that novel. There's something about the storytelling. And the story that's just compelling. Some students have already read it or seen it. And I have those students read the next novel by Hosseini which is A Thousand Splendid Suns. And that has much stronger much more prominent female characters and a female protagonist."

Decolonizing Eurocentric Curriculum:

"[Last time I addressed imperialistic worldview] was when I taught the Kite Runner and we looked at the tribal history of that country." Survey response (4/9/2017)

Issue with Positioning Muslim Students as Informants:

"We had a student who graduated last year. Who, during her freshman year, she started freshman year without wearing head covering. and about half way through freshman year, she started wearing . . . she she's Muslim so it was. . . one of my problems was having students be able to read, and struggle with content, but not be able to understand. The only thing that they understand. Most of them generally understood about Islam, is what they see in media as opposed to a deeper understanding of the religion. And the obvious physical things. Like, whether it's a head covering, or you darker skinned bearded men. So kids have to struggle. They have to admit that they don't know. And they have to be OK with asking questions that makes them sound ignorant. So, they can learn, and they can learn that they don't understand. So there's one immediate concern about this student, either being offended, or being the voice for all Muslims.

Fortunately, this one student was extremely generous, had a great sense of humor. And and had dealt with some of these sorts of issues, or complexities before. So, she had some experience. So, there was that piece. But then, also, just having students differentiate. . . like with anything . . .what is your bias? What do you know? What do you feel? what can you? just trying to reconcile all those different things. So, they can actually get down to some facts and some truth, and have a deeper understanding.

Melinda: Did they end up offending her? Or did she end up sort of falling into that pitfall of sort of being "the Muslim" voice for all Muslims.

Yes. A little bit, but not nearly like I thought." (4/18/2017)

Gender, the Veil, and Feminisms:

". . . A Thousand Splendid Suns has a lot of material - so the course is "Coming of Age" that's the theme. So as we're working with that theme, A Thousand Splendid Suns accomplishes a lot of the same

Melinda: Umm hmmn. . learning objectives? what's that?

Melinda:learning objectives?

I'm sorry. Yes. gender and sexuality is one of our main themes. For the course. and I probably do more with the gender theme when I teach the novel "Purple Hibiscus" by Adichie.

Melinda: OK. So is there some transferability do you think? To their view of the Middle East?

I think so. Yes. We have an alum, and he hasn't come in a few years, but he runs water businesses in Afghanistan.

Melinda:OK.

It was in the 1980's when he had this, and he would tell stories, and show videos. And he had the . . . hijab that the Taliban made him wear.

Melinda:Oh Chadari.

And he had he brought one so that the female students could try it on and the boys could see that. so I think. So yeah I can't say too much beyond, I don't go into gender as much. But as I think deeply about it, there's probably more of . . three different novels. You know we read Balzac and the Chinese Seamstress which is about the Chinese cultural revolution. Gender really doesn't play much of a role in that book.

Melinda:OK

I think a lot of times, students in the US - I am sorry - my students, that I have taught, Kite Runner and Persepolis it's more about women headcovering.

Melinda: Well you mentioned power, addressing it indirectly like delivered talk about power like US versus Afghanistan and this idea that we're rescuing since a lot of times where gender is invoked in dominant discourses like 'We're going to rescue the Afghans' yeah. Absolutely."

Shock Value:

"I see all of that [imperial frameworks] in different ways. I guess, I don't know if this helps to be specific about what I teach. I teach high school English, and over the past five years I have taught Persepolis as part of my 9th grade English class. I've taught the Kite Runner in my 9th grade English class. We also, our history includes cultural perspectives. So, it's a world history class, but it's not a survey course by any means. And they focus on countries and like, regions, not just countries." (4/18/2017)

"Melinda:so you said they start to open up are you talking about questions in class, or just engagement? Or, sort of inspiration to . . .what they want to research, or. .

Certainly both. I can put down into a very specific scene from the novel. You know, the assault scene in the Kite Runner. So, that's something that occupies a fourteen or fifteen year-old's imagination. It's troubling. But whenever.. . you know some of the questions that they ask about that are . . .you, know, is he gay? Is. . . so when they start to see pictures of people who live in Afghanistan. . . but in a different culture from theirs, they start to realize that they can't ask . . the same questions they're afraid to ask about themselves? They start to see that they can't ask that of other people, so they need to learn more, and empathize more. With where these people are located, the characters in the novel. It's just different. So they start to look at it much more critically, and much more - you know, in a deeper way." (4/18/2017)

White Complicity Counter Measures:

"I try to acknowledge it as often as possible that I don't have a lot of fear because of the hegemony I have, that I can get a way with a lot. This is absolutely a part of why I don’t have fear." (4/18/2017)

"Hegemony and ethnocentrism are vocabulary words I use. in order to have students . . .[the goal is] literature analysis through empathy." (4/18/2017)

Kelly

Quotes from interview on 10/13/2017, member check on 2/2/2018

Issue with Positioning Muslim Students as Informants:

"I have a student that's from Saudi Arabia, and someone randomly brought up the fact that women in Saudi Arabia can't drive. And then someone in class asked her if she could drive. And I honestly don't remember how the conversation ended. And she. . .she wasn't visibly upset but I think the question bothered her. It was very . . .I don't know the word for it, but it was just. . . I guess rude . . . [for] someone to ask her that. . .and she was like, "Why would you ask me that? I'm not the only person representing Saudi Arabia." (10/13/2017)

Decolonizing Curriculum as an Anti-Racist Approach:

"Christopher Columbus Day came up very recently, and a lot of people asked me why I didn't celebrate it, or give them a lesson. And I told them a little bit about it. And they're like, 'He cut people's hands off? Why would we celebrate that? And I responded: 'Well, why would we celebrate that?' . . .I talked about when he came to North and South America he was looking for gold and he forced the Native Americans to do it. And asked 'Well, what does he do if they don't give them the money?' And I said, 'Well, he cuts their hands off.' [Her students responded:] 'And we gave him a holiday?!' Like, very shocked almost. Because I don't really think - especially in elementary schools - I kind of think that Columbus isn't talked about in a negative way. And then kind of when they get older, I feel a lot of things [make them] become disillusioned in a way." (10/13/2017)

"We talk about that, and racism. That's one of my eighth grader's vocab words right now" (10/13/2017)

"Yes. In seventh grade they learn about the Congo Empire, which was selling their prisoners of war to Portuguese. And so one student asked, "Why is it African Americans?" Or why Africans? So we start there. Then they're like: 'Was slavery always based off of that?' And I say: 'No.' And we talked about Ancient Greece and Ancient Rome which was originally based off of prisoners of war. . how do we get from prisoners of war in Africa to all African-Americans? And so we take it through, step-by-step. We talk about "Uncle Tom's Cabin" briefly, and what that book was like. And we talk about how people in the South tried to justify slavery, because it was their economic-dependent; that's how they made their money. So a lot of them asked: 'How come people in the South are racist?' I say, 'It's not just in the South. It's primarily in the South.' But we talk about why they needed to justify it." (10/13/2017)

"And then we talk about, you know, because they didn't practice the same religion, they view it as 'less than'. We talk about that with colonists coming over, as well. A lot of people ask 'how come they're prejudiced towards Catholics. . . towards Protestant and Quakers. And it all comes back to because they're different, we fear them. We view them as less than." (10/13/2017)

"We were talking about slavery because a lot of my students are from West Africa. Sometimes they'll ask, like, "Well, how come it was African Americans that were targeted?" Or, "How come it was Africans?" And we talk about how, like, in the beginning, like, in ancient Greece and Rome, slavery was based off of prisoners of war. And then we talk about how that morphs into African Americans, specifically. We talk about that, and, like, racism. That's one of my eighth grader's vocab words right now. We talk about racism. We talk about how, like, Native Americans, they tried to make Native Americans slaves, but that didn't really work because they were not used to small pox. I try to get the whole view, but at the same time explain that, like, eventually they just used these as justifications to put people down." (10/13/2017)

". . .we look at point a) slavery through prisoners of war, and then point b) slavery based on skin color. And then how did we get there?" (10/13/2017)

"[Her students asked] 'Why did they care about the religion that the people practiced?' And we just talked about how like - one student brought up a really great point - she said that a lot of times we're fearful of things that we don't know, or we don't understand. Right? You know. I told her that is a really great observation to make. We talked about a couple other things. You know. Racism. We talked about Native Americans and why they were treated as 'less than' colonists and basically it was because they're different." (10/13/2017)

"Discussing reasons for the slave trade, I have many students that are from Africa and are often very interested to know why Africans were targeted and why not every group." Survey response (10/10/2017)

Deconstructing Jihadi Terrorist Narratives:

"And some of the the paragraphs were worded like "Islamic terrorist" In this . . .very very aggressive language was used. and then most of my students talked about .. . they had heard this before and like it wasn't a new thing for them. They like heard people. . " (10/13/2017)

"Nobody said the term Islamophobia, but it was very like, "Well why do people blame Islam?" And then at this point I just got really uncomfortable. I was very sweaty the whole time. Just because sometimes you just don't have the right answers for kids. And you don't want to. . . crush them in a way. So basically we just talked about how the official statement is that it's not everyone in Islam that believes this. It was a small group of people that happened to be Muslim." (10/13/2017)

Contemporary History and Current Events:

"So it's very hard sometimes when people bring up Donald Trump. Especially. . . so we watched. . . last year we watched his inaugural address in my classroom. And a lot of students were upset, confused. The travel ban topic comes up a lot. So I find it really hard to talk about those and stay non-biased because I have opinions on that. And I want to be like, "Yes! I agree with you." you know. But I also want them to like feel like it's a safe place for them to, you know. . .

Melinda: Say whatever.

"Yeah. I have a student that is a very big fan of Donald Trump. A very very big fan. And it baffles me a little bit as to why. Instead of saying that to him, I say: "OK. Well, what about him do you like?" Well, why don't you learn about his positions on things and then make a decision." and then it's like, "OK." So sometimes it's like trying to figure out how to frame it. . .He was really vocal about it . . .this was last year and then he said it again this year. and I was like, "Really? Still?" So I'm hoping that he's done some research and making those decisions." (10/13/2017)

"No. We didn't bring that up. So, I have this activity at very beginning of the year where they look at different perspectives. And I gave them a . . .five or six different textbook paragraphs about September 11. And it's the US, France, and I want to say Saudi Arabia is one of them. China's one of them. And that's when we looked at like the difference." (10/13/2017)

Teacher Identity and Navigating Personal Sharing:

"None of my students know my religious beliefs or my political beliefs. And I tell them that I don't want them to know, not because I'm ashamed, but because I don't want them to ever feel like they can't express something in my classroom."

Teaching the Truth of Racism, War, and Occupation

"Nobody seemed upset, but they were kind of like confused. . . as to how skin color leads that. Especially for some of my eighth-graders. It doesn't quite connect. Or they were kind of like piecing it together. A lot of people say 'Well, that's wrong,' and 'That's racist.' [I say,] 'Yes, it is wrong. It is racist.' Just acknowledging that. Like, 'Yeah. You're right.' You've drawn the right conclusions. This isn't a good thing that happened.'" (10/13/2017)

"they had a segment on there [the news], on Syria. And the girls were very quiet, but they had started crying." These girls were from Syria, and they had only left a few months ago. Seeking refuge.

"It wasn't even like guns, or stuff like that. It was just pictures of the capital. And they were like: 'We were there. We saw it.'" (10/13/2017)

"And the girls were very quiet, but they had started crying. And they don't speak English very well. I had another teacher come in, and I profusely apologized. I said, 'That was not my intent. I am so sorry I upset you.' And they were like, 'We know you didn't really mean it like that, but definitely upset us.' So sometimes I purposely steer clear of showing things like that." (10/13/2017)

Lillian

Quotes from interview on 10/26/2017

Decolonizing Eurocentric Curriculum on Islam:

"It's usually on the diversity within Islam itself. Then students will have a lot of, always ask about, it wasn't really until I went to my workshop this summer which really explained it a lot better to me. Because my understanding of it was extremely limited, and the information I was finding online was still very much skewed a lot of the try to find just neutral information. The workshop I went to this summer presented us with plenty of information. For an understanding of this extreme fundamentalist groups who are committing these crimes. And that twisted the message of Muhammad and Islam. It is kind of this perverted thing that is taking place now. And they offered us with a lot of resources. Papers we can take back . . .to students."

Islam is such a wide-spread religion. You have its roots in Africa and then India too, so it's a great topic to use in these different cultures. Um show how they all have that really central theme of the religion itself.

It is still extremely ethnocentric kind of place. And ever since 9-11 have been very scared of that religion. I have done a workshop before and when I dealt with Islam I had people contacting me. I had people contacting me from all over the general area. They wanted to make sure I gave an equal amount of time to Christianity and Judaism.

Especially in the general area, people don't realize the types of verbiage and terms they use can really help create that sense of "other". words. . .use. . we're superior and the other group is inferior, but a lot times, they can use racial terms or just terms that have a slight negative connotation to them. Because it's the first thing that pops into my mind because we're talking about slavery, I make sure that kids know that we don't use terminology like "slave", we say "enslaved person." Because a person is more than a slave. When you say 'slave'. . when you say "enslaved person" it is a human being who is enslaved at that time. So we try make sure that we find words that go along with that. When we do our primary source analyses - esp with Islam - I would want to use sources that use the sort of neutral term, or terms that aren't going to be able to be misconstrued in a negative way.

Yes, so basically you really trying to use uses discussion as an opportunity to both humanize historical groups and you know kind of traumatic histories so you're trying to get away from defining people just based only on that that oppression.

Yes." (10/26/2017)

"It is very difficult to talk and teach about Islam due to the skewed perceptions of Islam and Muslim countries. I often find myself attempting to change these prejudices that are rooted into the student's psyche by the media." Survey response (10/12/2017)

On addressing the term 'Third World': "I ended up creating a lesson about the use of words when describing different ethnic groups and countries." Survey response (10/12/2017)

On addressing imperial worldviews: "As a world history teacher I make a point of connecting almost all of my material to this euro-centric view point and how imperialism shapes history and people's perspectives even today." (10/12/2017)

Deconstructing Jihadi Terrorist Narratives and Images of a Violent Other:

Because I live in rural South. It is still extremely ethnocentric kind of place. And ever since 9-11 have been very scared of that religion. I have done a workshop before and when I dealt with Islam I had people contacting me. I had people contacting me from all over the general area. They wanted to make sure I gave an equal amount of time to Christianity and Judaism. There is a phobia about it. And a lot of people don't realize how many Muslims are actually practicing in the area because they do it so secretively because of the fear of it in this area.

Melinda: So, you're acknowledging that it is difficult to to teach this in that atmosphere.

It's extremely difficult. Yes.

Melinda: What specific hesitations or concerns do you have like when you're thinking of material. So when you're organizing the workshop. Are you thinking. . . you mentioned that some people are pressuring you to include other religions, as well. Do you consider doing that, do you go back and forth on that? Is there other content area

If I am doing one straight lesson on Islam, I make sure - because parents are extremely involved in this area - I will make sure I also do a lesson devoted all major religions and that also relate back to state standards. That is the only way that I can protect myself with it. Other than that, they try and talk about that I am trying to shove a religion down their child's throat." (10/26/2017)

"Melinda: Do you do you ever feel concern will be perceived as spending too much time on sort of quote, unquote nonlocal culture or nonlocal tradition?

Oh yes. The area that I teach in is extremely rural and many aspects very close-minded and narrowed off. for example, very recently I graduated from I teach at the high school I graduated from, and I graduated in 2008. and when I graduated, and for a few years after I graduated, the practice they had when they . . .was you actually voted a minority and a majority home coming queen when you would vote for overall, and and then for graduation speakers they would also every year, one African American person, and every other year a white person. There is still a lot of prejudice in the area itself.

Melinda: right so can you give me some context for that.

That's just how it is for African Americans. . the whole idea of Islam, I can't imagine what it's like for. . .when I taught in a bigger area, I had some. . and I asked them about it, some were very open about it, and others were very closed off. that was my . . year of teaching and she had actually told me that she is Muslim. So, it's still . . especially in the areas where there are still kind of very stand off ish about the subject.

Melinda: so what you're saying is there's a certain nationalism around like people's own groups even down to their like racial community. yes.

Melinda: they they want to make sure this balance or that there is fairness I guess for how much time teachers spend on their group and that is something you're navigating. yes.

Melinda: okay so would you say the push-back is mainly from the white community? and not as much from the black community?

In my old school that I was at it was mainly the white community, but my new school that I am at in ______county is very much on both sides. It's predominantly caucasian, but there is a bit of a push back from African American community.

Due to the fear, do you think?

I mean in this area the - there are so few people that are Muslim and most of the ones who are, are very averse about speaking about their faith openly. so there is a fear of the unknown." (10/26/2017)

Veiling, Gender, and Feminisms:

"A lot of people [in this area] - the only information they have about Islam is through the media, and the media is not very kind with that particular religion. So a lot of people have a lot of prejudice due to this. I still have students who think every single woman has to wear a burkha. So there's a lot of misconceptions." (10/26/2017)

Teacher Religious Identity and Navigating Personal Sharing:

"Melinda: you're also modeling.

Yes, definitely. Like, I am technically a Christian but I am not going to always go around and be like this religion is the only thing that defines me." (10/26/2017)

Linda

Quotes from interview on 2/11/2017, and member checks on 12/12/2017, and 3/5/2018

Teaching About Gender and the Veil:

"And, one of the challenges with literature, and this is big. Bias and contextualization - I think that's why historians like to use it. For example, I like using the "Kite Runner" - I tell the kids about 1000 splendid suns but I don't assign it because it's all about how miserable Muslim women are in Afghanistan. And if I started with that, they'd love the book, but that's the perspective they would get.

Melinda: So if you start with oppressed women it just gets out of hand with the stereotypes.

I guess, unless you have time to do that with something else. He is a great story teller. I think the Kite Runner is better to do. Even without many women in it. I am a little leery of giving something out like that, particularly initially. They don't come in there thinking all Muslims women are abused. I know that's one of the things that . . . or that all Muslims are violent. My kids don't come in thinking that. That's not my issue.

I think it makes the stereotype, the kids' stereotype. Only do it if you have time to do that with someone else.” 2/11/2017

"We're looking at Persepolis - she's reacting in an oppressed way. She doesn't like it. Let's look at the broader picture with other countries. I mean you're going to hear this is. . .you're going to hear what goes on in Saudi Arabia.

Melinda: So like with Persepolis you're saying she doesn't like it. She has a certain feminist reaction but she doesn't speak for the entire umma.

Linda: Exactly. None of these writers do." 2/11/2017

“So, would.. . and with Persepolis, as you know, she's upper-middle-class secular Muslim. So you have one point of view of what's going on. I do use literature but I always - and with 9th graders, I am not sure how much they take that in. The older kids would. But they're more like how they identify with Marjan Satrapi and they see the hijab as something restrictive, and so we have to go into that. And then I'll use - you know that famous, who wears the veil.

Melinda: Who wears the veil?

Well, who wears the veil, and you put the pictures up and you go over and it's Mother Theresa, . .Jackie Kennedy, and it's Queen Rania from Jordan - and you do this little survey and they're shocked. . .Any hook like that that will surprise and engage them." 2/11/2017

Shock Value:

“Melinda: so occasionally there's [parental] pushback [about including potentially traumatic topics] but if you create space for students talk about their feelings it's not an issue. Is that it?

We stand by not censoring things. So both the principle and the head of the school. If they got complaints, you know. I say to parents, if I get it on parent day. . I'll say most serious literature is dark. And they're in 9th grade.” 2/11/2017

"Melinda: You talk about connection a lot.

Umm hmmn

Melinda: So people feel connected to. When they hear a story they feel connected to that person

Yeah.

Melinda:or they can sort of understand that person for the meaning within the story even if maybe they don't even share that experience.

Or, they're so super shocked out of their shoes they're educated by something. Because I think you can get that "shocked out of your shoes" learning about something that's surprising and new without the connection. I think there are two thing. I think that literature does that in a way that history doesn't necessarily.

Melinda: So you can. . .

Linda: Learn by surprise. Yeah." (12/12/2017)

“you have to talk about it. I mean yesterday Sherman Alexie, and they were quite upset by Sherman Alexie [in regard to sexual abuse allegations]. Native Americans. They needed to talk about it.” 2/11/2017

On Needing a 'Hook':

"who wears the veil, and you put the pictures up and you go over and it's Mother Theresa, . .Jackie Kennedy, and it's what's her face from Jordan - and you do this little survey and they're shocked. . .Any hook like that that will surprise and engage them." 2/11/2017

"Years ago they used to say Jews live in Israel. They don't know who lives in Palestine. and some of them might guess Muslims, and i would say: Are all Palestinians Muslims? and also discuss those things. So I do ask all those general stereotype questions. But I don't go too far into that. I'll do a quick overview of the current map. For instance, I'll show Israel and say it's the size of New Jersey. Right? There's the identification. and then I'll show.. . but then. . . I will also right away go to my website, and I'll show them the skate boarding boys of Qalqilya. And I'll explain that they live with the wall around them. And then I will show them . . . .who are they?. . the people from Haifa. . ..just went out of my head. . .ummm. . street artist, black music video. . fantastic. They're hooked." 2/11/2017

Deconstructing Jihadi Terrorist Narratives:

"[her students] do expect jihad, and that's a little complicated. But there's a lot of jihad from Esposito's book about explaining it and contextualizing it within what they meant when they said they were going to use the sword . . you know you can talk about some of that. That's a little technical, but they ask about jihad." 2/11/2017

"We always talk about jihad." She puts it on the board, and they give associations. "It really is complicated." "They did do holy war." "What does jihad mean?"

"So I say you need to know the facts [in regard to information they get about Muslims or immigrants]. And you need to look it up, and not take what you read . . . .and it's an exaggerated. And I talk about. . .[the number of] refugees who committed acts of terrorism - zero. . . .So that's coming up a lot." 2/11/2017

On Imperialism as Israeli Occupation:

"I do talk about imperialism and colonialism when I talk about Israel and Palestine." 2/11/2017

"And I'll explain that they live with the wall around them. And then I will show them . . . .who are they?" 2/11/2017

"The reason why they live in this wall is because they are occupied." 2/11/2017

"Years ago they used to say Jews live in Israel. They don't know who lives in Palestine. and some of them might guess Muslims, and I would say: Are all Palestinians Muslims? and also discuss those things. So I do ask all those general stereotype questions. But I don't go too far into that. I'll do a quick overview of the current map. For instance, I'll show Israel and say it's the size of New Jersey. Right? There's the identification. and then I'll show.. . but then. . . I will also right away go to my website, and I'll show them the skate boarding boys of Qalqilya. And I'll explain that they live with the wall around them. And then I will show them . . . .who are they?. . the people from Haifa. . ..just went out of my head. . .ummm. . street artist music video. . fantastic. They're hooked." 2/11/2017

"When I use my Palestine Israel web site, and you're talking about all those lenses, I always start with the kids that are skateboarders that are Palestinians and the Jewish graffiti artists because the kids are then like, 'Wow!' And then you can move into history and the difference between the two of them, and where they're living. So I think that that accessibility, or really, 'hook' business is really essential." (12/12/2017)

"But then I'll explain that Israel doesn't have as much to resist. For them, they live in a more democratic society. But then I'll have to pause and say I can easily return Palestinians and I have to explain to you where Palestinians live. They don't just live in the WestBank and Ghaza, and I'll expand on that. I usually have a p. . on the powerpoint, i was using images I have taken with high interest. Very few facts. Then I have them read a short story. There's a really early short story, written by an Israeli in '48, called 'The Prisoner'." 2/11/2017

"I also pause and say most writers are 'left'. They need to know that. Because when I use Israeli writers, they're usually to the left. They're not as conservative as what's going on right now in Israel. So, you're getting a reflection of people that maybe empathetic to what's going on now with Palestinians. So I am always contextualizing. I have to admit." 2/11/2017

"There are feelings about. I do do stuff about the Holocaust. and and and and then I did stuff about The Return, and who's returning. and why." 2/11/2017

"Jewish parents didn’t want the wall. Didn’t want Palestinians to be represented." 2/11/2017

"I have done stuff with the Holocaust with Facing History. Facing Ourselves. Although, I've sort of written them off a little bit because they do nothing about Palestine because they have big Jewish donors. It's been bothering me for years." 2/11/2017

"He's the Israeli ummmm. writer. David Grossman. . .just updated David Grossman's . . it's about the settlements. And it’s about the West Bank." 2/11/2017

"I do find it's a challenge. I don't believe in balance anymore at all. I mean it's not just normalization. Isn't balance.

Melinda:Are you saying that that was not balanced? Is that what the parents. .

Well they didn't like having that [the separation wall in Israel] there at all. They're Jewish parents who didn't like having any of that wall represented. And he [her principal] didn't even tell me until the end of the year. It wasn't really an issue.

Melinda: So they didn't want students to know there was a wall at all. Or they didn't want them

Well they [parents who complained] kept saying Palestinians . . .they thought the Palestinians - I think, I don't know - would be represented in some kind of positive. . ." 2/11/2017

"I can't say I'm balancing all this stuff. I just taught this unit on Israel Palestine - do you know the short story: "Means of Suppressing Demonstrations" from the New Yorker? It's great, and it's written by an Israeli. Most of the literature you give out is about you know Israel . . .so it's really tricky. There are feelings about. I do do stuff about the Holocaust. and and and and then I did stuff about The Return, and who's returning. and why. The thing, you know you get into a lot of things, but so it's really tricky. And things are so right wing right now and so bad that. . umm. . to be really balanced for people would be really tricky." (2/11/2017)

Lenses:

“my second "coming of age in the world" so I am doing the Cultural Revolution and I'm doing an old age and things spending a certain amount of time on it.

The Cultural Revolution in China, you mean? yeah. I am using Balzac the Little Seamstress. And. . .um. . currently we're doing the movie. . ..well, actually, this is good. One of the things you want to you when your teaching this - whether it's in world religions or history - I would say, is connect with everything else. You don't want to do it in isolation. So, my coming of age in the world course has a set of themes on what it means to come of age. And those have come from PBS, from the book, Rose Perinne. Those connect with everything we do. So right now we're watching ‘Girl Rising’ It's that one with Meryl Streep and Liam Nieson narrating. And there's a whole curriculum that goes with it. Around the world. There are Muslim girls, but there are girls from other countries, too. I use that, and then I have four weeks that . . because I do boys and girls. And it's a whole unit. But I connect it with everything we've done for our coming-of-age [theme]”

Luke

Quotes from interview on (3/31/18), member check on 5/21/18

Problem of Positioning Students as Informants:

"I never ask 'So you're Muslim. Can you talk about Islam?' You know we never do, never have kids speak for that - I'm the one who'e presenting the content, and then we'll definitely allow their voice in the class if they wanna share, but I am not going to pick kids out of class and say:'Well, you're Muslim, Right? Can you explain?'

Melinda: So you don't want to put kids on the spot.

Yeah. I don't want to put 'em on the spot. and make them, like one kid, represent an entire world religion." (3/31/2017)

Decolonizing Eurocentric Curriculum:

"Muslim kids in class too so I also have hesitation make sure that I'm representing religion well and that my information is accurate" 3/31/2017

"Make sure they were looking at the complex multi-cultural. . . so within Islam there's diversity." 3/31/2017

"Everyone once in a while a kid will ask the question that. . .I say this is like were learning about religion and religions. I'm not telling you which religion is right or wrong evangelizing. join a religion is part of society and culture and we can't study society and culture with studying religion. So, it doesn't bother me at all. like and I guess some of the hesitations I would have earlier was like teaching about Islam with Muslim kids in class and then another could say disparaging things about Islam. But now I'm not -we just use that as a teachable moment.

Melinda: Okay so that's the difference between an experienced teacher and an inexperienced teacher.

I just say 'where these ideas come from? Why do you think that? Where did you hear that?'" 3/31/2017

"I don't even think it's like my curriculum to teach about Islam. I mean, it's not in there. So like what are other teachers doing in other spaces? You know. I can and I have not like again if I would be more hesitant if I were teaching like in my home community. you know what I mean? If I were teaching in my home community in Southeast Ohio. And I come in and I teach this unit on Islam. You know, how is that going to be perceived? What is the? What's going to be the feedback from parents and administrators on that? I don't know. I am in a different place, and different context. So I've never had anyone. I've never gotten angry phone call about teaching any religion." 3/31/2017

Member check note: "Kids don't realize Indonesia has the highest Muslim population in the world. What they get about islam is media hearsay. My kids are around muslim folks more than most, though. A senior last year, a black muslim, he would share about what he does during 'eid. Rarely do get kids vocal, but he would talk to the other kids about it, there weren't other muslims in that class. His dad was from an African country, and his Mom a Black Muslim." 5/21/18

"We interrogate 'Third World country' 'developing nation'. And what makes up the Middle East and where that name comes from. and the histories of imperialism in that area." 3/31/2017

"We explore stereotypes of "third world" nations, and look at info that contradicts stereotypes." Survey response (3/22/2017)

"We discuss the connotations that go along with that term and with "developing" nations." (4/1/2017)

"We examined the historic effects of European Imperialism on Asia, Africa, and the Middle East." (4/1/2017)

"We looked at the oppression and exploitation of western imperialism." Survey response (3/22/2017)

Deconstructing Jihadi Terrorist Narratives:

"I have hesitations over whether I'm teaching it well enough so that kids don't walk away with the same single story about Muslims being terrorists." (3/31/2017)

"I think we need to do a better job about teaching the diversity within Islam and about the peaceful nature of the religion to counteract the stereotypes perpetuated in Western media." Survey response (3/22/2017)

Anti-Racist Approaches:

"I lump that [Islamophobia] in with racism and things like that." (3/31/2017)

Member check notes: "It's an oppression. One of the things we try to combat as educators. One of the things we try to correct in people's thinking. Even though it's not the same thing as race. It's religion. But it's still intolerance." (5/21/18)

"So the Muslim kids I had 10 years ago the kids that more than likely were born in. So the Somali population there more than likely born in Somalia refugee camp. Now the Somali kids we have are like second-generation that are, that don't remember being there. They don't remember being in Africa. They were born in America. So they have more, they have more of the gumption to stick up for themselves. So it is a lot different now. And I have some other like Black Muslim kids, too. There you can see the differences in Islam too. But I never I never ask to like "So you're Muslim. Can you talk about Islam?" You know we never do, never have kids speak for that - "I'm the one who'e presenting the content, and then we'll definitely allow their voice in the class if they wanna you know share, but i am not going to pick kids out of class and say: 'Well, you're Muslim, Right? Can you explain?'" (3/31/2017)

"You know I think today the Muslim kids are . . they're like the next generation. so the Muslim kids I had 10 years ago the kids that more than likely were born in. So the Somali population there more than likely born in Somalia refugee camp. Now the Somali kids we have are like second-generation that are, that don't remember being there. They don't remember being in Africa. They were born in America. So they have more, they have more of the gumption to stick up for themselves. So it is a lot different now." I lump that in with racism and things like that. the fear of others, right? The fear of difference. [link] to racism and prejudice and Islamophobia. it's all wrapped up in the same idea. It's different but it's still wrapped up in the same idea. So, I don't think I treat Islamophobia any differently than racism or xenophobia or any of that kind of thing. to look at some of the examples of violence, and things happen since. We had 9/11 and then recently mosque attacks." (3/31/2017)

Contemporary History and Current Events:

"Yeah, we're looking at that. we're looking at the travel ban. Even Trump calling it a 'Muslim ban' on the campaign trail. The countries that they identified, and the people they targeted. So we've covered that this year." (3/31/2017)

"So we have like the law that says we have to teach about the original founding documents and the Ohio Constitution. And there's the Constitution day. There is this like this effort to protect this certain narrative of American history, right? To be an American you were. . . "America was founded by Western Europeans who were Christian, and that's the identity our nation has" Right? So, we - my Global kids - we just got done watching the film about the ethnic studies ban in Arizona. and looking at how the politicians in Arizona had felt threatened by this Mexican- American studies course in Tucson schools." (3/31/2017)

Imperialism as Israeli Occupation:

"We look at the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. There's a movie called "Promises" I show because as like just kids from different sides different communities in Israel really humanizes each kids and each side: Arab, Israeli. There's Israeli Orthodox settlement kids. We have an Arab kid from Jerusalem, and an Arab kid that lives in the refugee camps. A couple Arab kids living in refugee camps. So you know getting their perspective. And we read Persepolis which is about the woman that leaves Iran and grows up in Iran before the revolution, then leaves after the revolution. We look at that.

Melinda: And it kind of provides what's missing in imperialistic sort of media.

Right. And it explains. If you’re thinking about . . .the critical aspect is very critical that imperial history. Because there is a whole history lesson at the beginning of that book about the Shah, and the, some of the Iranian people that were communist and why they were aligned with the Soviets. Questioning the European imperialists that came there and took over through the shah to get to the oil." (3/31/2017)

Member check note: "I wish there was a newer film. Uses the follow-up, but wishes there was a newer one. best thing that kids can watch - humanizes both sides - is balanced." (5/21/2018)

"I had a kid who had wacked out ideas about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. His research on his final project was very anti-Palestinian and anti-Arab. We had to have a conversation about that. His family is from Ghana. After class, I said 'That is pretty one-sided. You're going to have to do some work on that. The sources I gave you also included critical sources.'" Books he provides his students include comics by Jo Sacco the "Walz with Bashir" comic, and "Best of Enemies. "He finally integrated more diverse sources to make his research more balanced. final project was more balanced. you gotta look at both sides of that." (5/21/18)

Veiling, Gender Norms, and Muslim Feminisms:

"I think that I think really that hijab thing came up because. I think there was one point in time, I got in trouble a little bit with some other teachers because they wanted to - they had this great idea and because Ohio State was reading “Three Cups of Tea”. . . we're gonna read “Three Cups of Tea.” And that book is like the great white savior into what? Afghanistan? and rescuing girls. and putting them in schools and I'm like No, No, No. I'm like, A. Because Ohio State is doing something, it's the right thing to do. and B. This is that same old narrative where we know best, we're going to go in and save these people. So that's the way we look at hijab. Banning the hijab is not really helping women's rights. right? so, it's very tricky. If you look at the. . . the single stories. . . to reinforce stereotypes: like well "women in the Middle East are all oppressed" "have no rights"

Or the hijab always means she is forced to wear it, or oppression. yeah. so you have to be careful with that. There's some. I had some students that were looking at that. One student who was doing it left, went to a different school. But she was reading "Girls of Riyadh" and looking at how girls in Saudi Arabia had found ways to circumvent the oppression. To find freedom like . . .with other girls . . and through electronic devices. So, subtle ways of resistance. I guess.

Melinda: And this is a colleague that works here?

Yeah. But the "3 cups of tea" thing, it's been several years ago.

Melinda: but she also did the girls of Riyadh?

No, no. That was me. There was a student reading that.Kids have to read books. We have a year- long capstone project. and when they pick a global issue to research all year, and they do a presentation and an art project. and part of the second and third grading periods, when they're doing their research, they read a book. so it could be fiction, non-fiction, but. . so, I have just a whole bunch of books to pick from, depending on what they're topic is. So that's one of them that I passed off. Cus if you're looking at women's rights. . ." (3/31/2017)

Member check note: Had more kids read Girls of Riyadh. Every year one or two kids read it. (5/21/18)

Member check note: "In other words, there are multiple feminisms. I have them think outside of Western feminism. For some women covering is freedom, and banning the veil is as bad as requiring the veil. We're reading Persepolis." He assigns interviews with the author to address that issue. She also wrote an article about France banning the veil that his students read. (5/21/18)

"One student who was doing it left, went to a different school. But she was reading 'Girls of Riyadh' and looking at how girls in Saudi Arabia had found ways to circumvent the oppression. to find freedom like . . .with other girls . . and through electronic devices so like subtle ways of resistance. I guess." (3/31/2017)

"We to try to get them outside of the U.S. perspective. We have women's rights in the U.S, but you need to define women's rights somewhere else. So find some other place to look at women's rights." (3/31/2017)

"So they have to have a global component of their capstone projects. so how is this issue global? Right? How is women's rights not global, but they have to look at a different spot. And that is what she was looking at." (3/31/2017)

"It's visual. It's something people see." (3/31/2017)

"We get into the question of wearing the hijab with Persepolis. We trouble that because. So you have like Iran, where women were forced to wear the hijab, under the revolution. And then you have like 10 years ago in France they banned hijab. So we have both of those things going on. So we can give them background readings on that. so it's just as. the author Persepolis Marjan Satrapi had written an article like it's just as bad to ban the veil as it is to require it." (3/31/2017)

What Gives Us the Right to Judge?:

"I still get take aback by it. when students of color are prejudiced. It's part of my privilege. We were watching Promises and some of the kids started fighting. One of the kids was cussing at the other student. So I said 'Let's talk about why we think it's weird when other people speak differently.'

They had to take notes on the different kids in the film. After they made fun of the accent, I stopped the film. One of my students used the "f" word. They are American kids but someone was mocking the kid [in the film] and it upset the other kid. Then we looked at Faraj and the twins and Sanabell and Mahmoud. We looked at what languages those kids speak.

Today we're having a discussion on culture and religion and that's really tied together." (5/21/18)

". . .othering. We work on that. I have the Merryfield iceberg. Some of the things on the surface that people think might make people look different. Those things don't matter as much as the things on the inside. So, cultural assumptions, beliefs and values. How people think is more important than what style clothing or how they prepare their food." (3/31/2017)

Teacher Identity and Navigating Personal Sharing:

"I think the if I were teaching because a lot of my stuff is like from a critical perspective, right? I was telling my wife about this last night. So there are places I've seen in Texas that say we should not teaching kids to think critically because they question their parents. So there have been times when I've had kids talk to me about religion. A couple years someone said I really like Buddhism. It's really cool. I'm like, ooooo. Here is some stuff you might want to explore, and here's the books. But then, you know, I was a little hesitant because I want some kid go home and tell his parents well Mr.____ is converting me to Buddhism. Which I am not, but if some kid is interested in something I want to feed that interest, right? so think that would be there.

Melinda: But if it's Buddhism it's not you're not as strong in that?

No I mean if I picked a religion I would probably be a Buddhist.

Melinda: Oh! Ok.

So that. But I usually don't tell kids anything. Kids usually have no idea… they jut assume what religion I am. But they have no idea because I don't really say like . . . .I might say I grew up, you know, going in Sunday school. But I don't really talk about like

Melinda: you give clues.

Right. But I don't talk about my personal beliefs or religion at all. so like so there's my fine line. I don't come out and say like I don't really believe in God. Buddhism's cool.

Melinda: Right.

Because then - you know. Then if that leads into the "Why don't you think that?" then I have conversations that. . . .because I've had kids say: "I'm really questioning this stuff" and I'm like "Well that's good. .. " but, I don't want. . that's not my place to have a kid question their religion and create some kind of family conflict. Because I can imagine that being like. . . Because that's not my job. My job is to teach about the religion, people's different beliefs respect, right?But my job is not to like start questioning their religion or their family. Yeah, I don't want to do that.

Melinda: Sort of bucking authority at home.

Right. I don't want to do that. But also want to respect their critical thinking in their curiosity too. questioning that is it

Melinda: That's a great line, actually, to identify.

So I want to do that but also don't like. I try to keep it unbiased and try to keep five all like just keep asking questions or giving them sources and not start telling them what I think. Because I don't want them to just like parrot what I think." (3/31/2017)

Member check note: "It's weird it used to be a bigger question. Now they don't really ask. I grew up in a Christian family but my family does not practice.

Melinda: Do you think that helps you teach about religions?

It gives me a more objective view. lack a depth of knowledge outside of protestant teaching mom was baptist was methodist. My Mom didn't make us go to church. She figured when we got old enough we would make a decision on our own." (5/21/18)

"She had a transistor radio when she was growing up. To listen to Elvis quietly because no dancing allowed." (5/21/18)

Member check note: His oldest cousins went to a Christian school but his mom did not want to do that with them. He can count the number of times he went to Sunday school. (5/21/18)

"Some educators wear it on their sleeve." His colleague put up a Christmas tree - he confronted the colleague about it - "What about Muslim kids? What does that say to kids when they walk in that you have Christian stuff up and no other religion?" (5/21/18)

"I'm from southeast Ohio, Noble county. The only religious diversity I had was Protestant and Catholic we had Lebanese Catholics." His friend from marietta was Lebanese Catholic. It was his home town for generations. His grandpa founded a shoe store. We had Eastern European folks, too. He read about this region, the eastern immigrants. "I took class on immigration from Germany. There is diversity, but didn't notice it. To me everyone was white christian but I didn't notice it. And the German Catholic church outside of town was built by same folks who built the one in German Village. St. Mary of the Assumption." (5/21/18)

White Complicity Counter Measures:

"I really don't have any hesitations, other than. I have hesitations over whether I'm teaching it well enough so that kids don't walk away with the same single story about Muslims being terrorists. so trying not to exotify religion or to reinforce stereotypes. So that's that's my way. as a non-Muslim white American dude I have to be cognizant that. So I try to do my best so that the kids get a deeper understanding of the religion, other than what they see in the media.

Melinda: so how does that connect to your identity. How does hesitation come out when you're thinking 'I’m not a Muslim'? What happens there?

You know and I have Muslim kids in class too so I also have hesitation make sure that I'm representing religion well, and that my information is accurate, and that the representations that we're using are accurate.

Melinda: okay so the accuracy is some . . a point which is that accurate you will have a little hesitation with and

Right. make sure they were looking at the complex multi-cultural so within Islam there's diversity multiple." (3/31/2017).

"I had a great conversation with seniors yesterday." One looked at punk rock as means to resist authority. They discusses collective responsibility in the context of school; i.e., if one student does something all are punished. The discussed the importance of speaking truth to power. "The kids were like 'you have power!' I was like 'yes.'" They appreciate that. We can never be on an equal playing field. But others aren't willing to have the conversation." (5/21/18)

"We know what's best. The kids don't like that they bristle. They don't like that only the kids at the top are celebrated." (5/21/18)

He said that is the system, and they talked about how the system is set up.(5/21/18)

"It's the hidden curriculum. I was trying to bring light to that." (5/21/18)

"I have all kinds of privilege: protestant, white, male, cisgender. I remind my kids of that. At no point in my life have bee worried about the police, or if am I going to get pulled over." (5/21/18)

"My great grandfather hated Catholics. English heritage, methodist. He had a stroke and said don't take me to the Catholic hospital." (5/21/18)

"You can't change the power dynamic, but you can expose it. In the past, I have said I use my authority to keep people safe. Physical and emotional safety. They do their own projects instead me telling them 'you have to know that.' The tests are gatekeepers so I do help them prepare for the tests." (5/21/18)

We looked at Bob Marley's daughter's video." (5/21/18)

Towards a More Rigorous Theory on Cultural Perspective-taking:

"I am not a standardized person.I don't like standardization. But how are we teaching. But how are kids being taught to knock down those stereotypes? how are we teaching kids to like celebrate difference, right? how are we doing that, how are other teachers doing that? In our different settings? Whether it's urban, suburban or rural. Because there's no like . . .you can come in . . . and I could come in and teach my global issues class from a completely US perspective and never teach any other perspective. How has globalization impacted United States? I could do that all year

Melinda: And still hit all the standards.

And still hit all the standards. And do what I'm supposed to do. and not create perspective consciousness, or anything like that. Some of the kids are like: 'Is this movie going to have subtitles?' I'm like: 'Yes. Do your best.'

Melinda: That's awesome because I always feel like Americans miss out on this whole world of cinema because they don't like subtitles.

I'm showing film tomorrow, or next week, with subtitles. They are going to be annoyed with me but, whatever." (3/31/2017)

Marisa

Quotes from Interview on 10/5/2017, Member check on 2/17/2018

Christian Privilege:

"But the school as a whole kind of doesn't recognize that. They think it's under my ESL purview. And so a lot of the work that I do is to have the faculty understand that a huge portion of our population our mainstream population, our American population, Americans. These are American students born here. Are Muslim Americans. That's also a shocking thing to many teachers: Muslim and American. It's still viewed. . the population is viewed as 'other.' and that's . . . so events might be planned . . .on the last night of Ramadan. My school and local community makes an assumption that if you were born here you're not Muslim. Muslim friends feel like they're not considered American. You wear a hijab and you were born here?" (2/17/2018)

"I don't think it's malicious, but there's just not an understanding that. . .perhaps if we have a dance on the last night of Ramadan that that would pretty much be like having it on Christmas eve. and that by nature of it, you are going to be excluding a huge portion of the population. That would never happen with the majority faith. It would never even be thought of being planned on such a date. Or that there would be state testing on fast day. or that perhaps you would not have a senior luncheon, or a senior breakfast, because those students would not be able to participate because they're fasting. Perhaps if we had a late night senior dessert. You know, when they could actually eat, or very very early morning sunrise something, that everyone could be included." (10/5/2017)

"This school set up to be inclusive to the entire community? Regardless of faith that everyone would be able to participate. And I do understand they'll say Ramadan is going to cycle through the whole year, so there are certain years where it becomes more difficult. Because it's at graduation time, or . . .but we still need to be cognizant of that." (10/5/2017)

"It is very important to me that this country and again as a historian - because, again, I view myself as a historian - to understand the freedom, even though it is a christian-based country." (10/5/2017)

"politics will come in. obviously this year has been a very political year with the new president. and the viewpoints that are now fomenting and it was a tough year I will say for many of us teachers and students who were within the Muslim community. Just comments that were just thrown around. in hallways, or amongst students, or amongst faculty. or amongst families when making decisions about the selection. so that is a concern that I have. it is very important to me that this country and again as a historian - because, again, I view myself as a historian - to understand the freedom, even though it is a christian-based country. Even though people say religious freedom. really it is a Christian-based country. So that there was space within this country, though, for practice of anything or non-practice of anything. And I think that does not come through. in our buildings that that is OK. That practice or non-practice of any of these faiths are allowed. and it is very important to me that that is respected in our buildings. and that any of the students who are Muslim, born here, or otherwise, are just as much normalized as any body else. that is a goal of mine as a teacher. that is should be. . that any of these students should be considered students of our community with the same rights and privileges and expectations and being looked at in that same way as everyone else. and i do not think that is necessarily where this country educationally is right now. with the curriculum or with the set up of the schools, or with the holidays, or with the events at our schools. in general. I mean there are some schools that do that. I mean. like you'll go to a concert now, and now they'll be some hanuka songs. i don't hear any - ever - any kind of either dance or music never that's not being incorporated. I've never in my whole experience of my children's school, or the school that I'm in. And I think that if there was - I am just guessing now - that it would not be the same as singing the draydel song and people being like OK. no. I still think that there might be a trigger reaction to that, and that's problematic to me. that's me speculating. I think at this point that should happen. Like, I don't understand why that wouldn't happen." (2/17/2018)

"I do not think that is necessarily where this country educationally is right now. with the curriculum or with the set up of the schools, or with the holidays, or with the events at our schools. in general. I mean there are some schools that do that. I mean. like you'll go to a concert now, and now they'll be some Hanuka songs. I don't hear any - ever - any kind of either dance or music never that's not being incorporated. I've never in my whole experience of my children's school, or the school that I'm in. And I think that if there was - I am just guessing now - that it would not be the same as singing the dreydel song and people being like OK. no. I still think that there might be a trigger reaction to that, and that's problematic to me. That's me speculating. I think at this point that should happen. Like, I don't understand why that wouldn't happen." (2/17/2018)

Membercheck notes:

Marisa shared a conversation with her colleagues at lunch. She spoke with a teacher who was saying 'we don't have a problem;' ie any religion is ok with us. Marisa asked her, "So if they brought in a Muslim song with praise to Allah you wouldn't mind that?" She paused. And Marisa pointed out to her, 'Just the fact you're pausing and thinking about that.' She said, "The pause. What is it in me that makes me stop and think? We need to examine why that would be." (2/17/2018)

Decolonizing Eurocentric Curriculum:

"Melinda: So do you ever break that down? In terms of what is modern? What is Western? What is Third world?

We talk about that a lot with the idea of the United States is the savior idea. Like, they go into countries. . .and I don't teach it directly. I do not, and I'll say that, again, I teach middle school, not high school, so I really have to be cognizant of their age level, and what they really. . .what an 11 year old or a 12 year old. . . because I have a mixed grade class. They range from 6th to 8th grade in my classroom. So I have some really young people in there. But we will talk about, 'What is the motivation for a country? Why do nations go to war?' And I am very involved with the foreign policy research institute. They're an organization that does, that talks about foreign policy and politics. I'm actually going to them in two weeks in Philly, and it's about Eurasia. And issues there. But we took that. . .'why do nations go to war?' Why do we not make a treaty? Why do we not use foreign policy? What makes us actually go into war? And generally speaking, it's because we want something. Not because we're protecting someone, but because we want something out of it. And one of the results might be that we "protect someone" but we're protecting them because there is something in it for us. And that's not necessarily a horrible thing, but that is what nations do." (10/5/2017)

"And I will advocate and say: "That does not represent and inclusive situation for a huge chunk of our population." Our population. And that kind of idea. And if I am moving too far away just stop me, but, like, the books. The books that the students have, that are available for them in our classrooms and library, are these books that are kind of like historical representations of Muslim girls. Like, Under the Persimmon Tree, or these books where they might be talking about arranged marriages, or .. . they're ancient books. They're outdated, historical books of oppression. Or, it's Malala. You know what I mean? Those are your two choices. So something I talk about with the other teachers and something that I work very hard to do in my classroom is that I have contemporary dystopian novels. Like there's a fantasy novel by Karuna Riazi called The Gauntlet. It's a young adult book. Scholastic book. So, she is an upcoming Muslim writer who writes fantasy and dystopia. And I just like put it on my shelf. This is something a Muslim woman is writing. She is an author. And, that's available to you, and if you read about her you will know that it's just she is a writer who happens to be Muslim ad I like her books in my class. So, that's really important to me. OR, a lot of girls would say to me . . I have a lot of girls who wear headscarves, and they say, none of these books. . . they make us look like we're really oppressed. And it's not oppressive for me at all. I feel very free do this as my choice. And this is something that I am very proud to be able to do. So, I have books like "Does my Head Look Big in This" And they're just out there. Like, I don't make. . they're just out there. They're out there on my display shelves, and . . there they are. They wanted contemporary books about them. And so they're out there. And it's interesting because I will have students that will say "Can I borrow this book?" Yeah. Why wouldn't you be able to borrow that book? And you really don't feel it. And it's not about. . ." (10/5/2017)

"In our curriculum the starting point of encounter is always from the European perspective." Survey response (10/2/2017)

"We were working on WWI and how European interests determined borders in the Middle East. The students were shocked by this." Survey response (10/2/2017)

Deconstructing Jihadi Terrorist Narratives:

"Yesterday, one of my students came back. She's a senior. She's getting ready. She's writing her essay. And she wanted me to help look at her college essay. And she wants to be a community. . .you know . . .to work within the community .. And she knows that I do a lot of community advocacy for Muslim-Jewish-Christian relationships. so she was asking me about those things. and we were talking about, like, the shooting in Las Vegas. And how the entire white male christian community is not being called upon to own his behavior. Why? What is the language being used for that? We were also talking about her because when I was at Cornell University as a student, I really admired everything she did with Myanmar, and everything that was going on there. and now there's all these controversies with her, and you know, she's growing as a woman too. Is it fair? Are women and Muslim women, who are representing. . .are they being scrutinized in a different way? Or is it being fair? Maybe it is just fair that . . .anyone being scrutinized in that way, and that we are. . . so those ideas I think are interesting."

"Students are very frustrated about it. Especially since many of my students come from the UAE which is very modern. They are very frustrated by how they are portayed as all part of . . . ancient societies." Survey response (10/2/2017)

Teaching About self/Other Through a Culture's Creativity and Scientific Achievement:

"There's such a rich and very technological and scientific contribution that was made by a variety of Muslim communities. That was not at all part of the presentation in the curr however, a huge portion of the inventions and technologies and navigation techniques were Muslim-created, invented. . the scientists. So what I did on my own, was I went and I . . I went out and I found resources that would reflect that in the curriculum so that it was a more truthful and balanced curriculum. And, for the students, all of the students, this was a very revelatory moment in the class when we went back and. . .I went to a variety of different resources, and we looked for a variety of resources for it. So, for example, King Abdullah University of Science and Technology has an amazing web site for kids. Talking about astronomy and navigation, and all of the different tools that were used. So I have m kids go to the web site and do a virtual field trip there. And then we looked at how those same tools and how those same inventions and technologies were presented at other museums that talk about science and technology that weren't from a Muslim country. How are these people spoken about? How are their contributions? And that was really interesting because some places have really - it really was parallel. These are the facts. And then some places really created off of a more European. . . and someone is Muslim culture started it, but then it was popularized, or refined or . . . so we got to talk a little bit about "Who gets credit?" Where do things get started?" How are things modified? How do things go from culture to culture? Where did it begin? Where were these schools Who was thinking these scientific thoughts? Were these scientific thoughts being bought in Europe? In the Middle East? In Northern Africa? Who? and Why? Why were these different groups? So, that became really fascinating to my students. So that was like one way that we started to really examine not only who is making the contributions, and who is getting credit for the contributions, but how in modern history we are presenting that information. It all became part of "who is being represented, and how are they being represented?" And perhaps why? Why are those choices being made." (10/5/2017)

"There is a fashion and lifestyle blogger that the students really really like. Her name is Noor Tagouri. She does a lot. She wears hijab, and she does a lot of fashion advocacy. The girls just love her so much. I am sure you can find out what her last name is. We bring her in. And just the fact that you can. . .and the girls themselves can be styled. Because middle school girls, that's very important to them. that you could be a style and thought and trend influencer. and still remaining true to however you are representing yourself religiously, or modestly, or that you're not limited. you can be both of those things, and that is very empowering." (10/5/2017)

Member check note: Noor Tagouri does not view being a model as objectification.

"When we do our navigation and exploration unit that there's no way you can be doing that comprehensively and not talk about the contributions of Muslim scientists and thinkers and mathematicians. It's impossible, and yet it is possible because it happens all the time." (10/5/2017)

"That it would be irresponsible teaching, for me, to not include that in. And have these students. . .it impacted their life. The reason why they're here today, I believe, is because of world war one and what happened then. So, for me to leave that out is irresponsible as a historian. So, that is something that I really have come to, not only through my experience with these students and seeing how their contemporary lives are impacted politically, but also through dialogue I am having with other teachers." (10/5/2017)

"But what became fascinating was I would spin it off and I would say:'OK.' - because all of my students were immigrants from somewhere - "what were the navigational tools in your nation at that time? What was going on there?" And then they were kind of able to go back and examine those things. You know? and so we were able to kind of bring everybody into it." (10/5/2017)

Contemporary History and Current Events:

"I was a New York City teacher in New York on 9/11. I could see everything out my window. It was a very tough time in the country. and I was very, very uncomfortable with the reaction that the country had to the Islamic community right then. And I wasn't even working with Muslim students at the time. I was working with a 100% Chinese population at that point in time. But when I came here. When I would try to advocate for these different issues, I did feel like there was a bit of discomfort when people felt like i was . . not that I was proselytizing - they just didn't feel that perhaps. They thought I was maybe very naive about the reality. and that was very uncomfortable for me, because you know my students are my students. And all of us are called upon to teach our students, and have them come into our classroom and feel comfortable. And so that was kind of a tension for me. You know, as a teacher." (10/5/2017)

"The Sykes-Picot agreement, and they need to know exactly what happened in 1916. They need to know that this was on purpose, the the plan secretly being made to take away power that . . .an agreement was made and broken." (10/5/2017)

"I mean Sykes Picot. That was another revelatory thing for the kids. Especially my kids that come from the places . . they were like, "What?" And the fact that that's omitted, that's purposely omitted. To not have that conversation." (10/5/2017)

". . . politics will come in. Obviously this year has been a very political year with the new president. and the viewpoints that are now fomenting and it was a tough year I will say for many of us teachers and students who were within the Muslim community. Just comments that were just thrown around. In hallways, or amongst students, or amongst faculty. or amongst families when making decisions about the selection. so that is a concern that I have." (10/5/2017)

Veiling, Gender Norms, and Feminisms:

"And I will advocate and say:'That does not represent and inclusive situation for a huge chunk of our population.' Our population. And that kind of idea. And if I am moving too far away just stop me, but, like, the books. The books that the students have, that are available for them in our classrooms and library, are these books that are kind of like historical representations of Muslim girls. Like, Under the Persimmon Tree, or these books where they might be talking about arranged marriages, or .. . they're ancient books. They're outdated, historical books of oppression. Or, it's Malala. You know what I mean? Those are your two choices." (10/5/2017)

"Or, a lot of girls would say to me . . I have a lot of girls who wear headscarves, and they say, none of these books. . . they make us look like we're really oppressed. And it's not oppressive for me at all. I feel very free do this as my choice. And this is something that I am very proud to be able to do. So, I have books like 'Does my Head Look Big in This' And they're just out there. Like, I don't make. . they're just out there. They're out there on my display shelves, and . . there they are. They wanted contemporary books about them. And so they're out there. And it's interesting because I will have students that will say 'Can I borrow this book?'" (10/5/2017)

"I said, 'The Hunger Games' isn't about you. It's not. It is about you because when you read about this character you're going to completely connect to her struggles. Because that time period in your life is considered really, really challenging and difficult time. Just like it is for her. And you are going to connect to this character. So, these are kind of ways we have to just incorporate. . regularize the experiences of . . .Muslim girls. And I am trying to find books for boys, as well. Where you're just a character in the story as well." (10/5/2017)

"And I'll talk about. . .this is a writer I really like. And so, those kinds of micro-changes. . . positive micro-changes, where it is a regular thing in my classroom for students to see books with girls wearing headscarves on the cover. That you will see seven books on my shelf, along with all the other books with girls." (10/5/2017)

"I like there to be this idea that there are complex Muslim women. You know. We had Malala. She is wonderful. She's wonderful for middle school. She had done an amazing job, having girls. My entire population. . . a real heroic beautiful character. She is definitely a character we love, I personally, love to talk about. But, like if you're talking about, for example, Aung San Suu Kyi, part of a controversy. I wouldn't bring her up in middle school but some of my students come back to me, my high school students and we will talk about her. She is making complex choices about who she wants to represent, who she doesn't. What are the issues. And I think that's important, too. To show that there are women that have to make tough decisions, have to get stripped of honors. Maybe do things that other people aren't going to agree with. That is OK. Men do that too. We are allowed to do that too. We do not have to be the perfect model character heroine." (10/5/2017)

"Rather than our white American idea of what feminism is, look at different possibilities for feminism." (2/17/2018)

"Feminism is access to free choice. The girls that veil, for them that was a feminist act to cover their hair, a decision between them and God. As a Mom of two, was able to stay at home with youngest, one of her choices was to stay home don't view that as throwing away my degree. There's an idea that there's a correct feminist response. Each woman is different. Each family is different. freedom and access to make the best decisions for yourself as a woman. in the same way that a man would." (2/17/2018)

"It's not a single story with this." (2/17/2018)

"As a middle school teacher, for their age, engaged with what their parents gender views and political views. For me feminism is the freedom to make the choices without restriction, including staying at home withe the children. The choices that men have as well. Men can function according to feminism as well. It impacts everybody. It's not just a women's issue. It's important not to impose a singular view." (2/17/2018)

"When I talk about gender it's a global thing, feminists around the world. It gives the freedom for women to interact with society in their own individual way." (2/17/2018)

"One of the characters is wearing a hijab, living her life in school. She is not living her life like oooh! She's struggling through with this issue. No. She's a character, who happens to wear a head scarf, living her life like all the other characters. Because that's how my students live their life. They're just living their life."

"Her name is Noor Tagouri and she's a real advocate for being comfortable wearing a headscarf and fashion. It's a good jumping off point just simply - not because it's over done - because this is the age. The girls usually go from 7th to 8th grade not wearing and then wearing so it is a moment in time for a middle school teacher and a middle school student. I think it's more frustrating knowing it's still being talked about for adult women who make their own decisions to have to say anything on it. but it is a very real moment in time for my girls. to make that decision or families to not make that decision. or for them to personally make that decision. it's a big big deal for middle school. it completely belongs in middle school. it will be never be overdone as a conversation here. because this is the moment in time. it's y 8th grade girls or 8th grade going into 9th and the girls will talk about it at lunch then they'll talk about it with me. then they'll come in and then they either will or they won't it's a big deal. It's not a topic or trend. it's the real deal in my classroom."

"My Muslim students always expressed frustration that the representation is of women being oppressed women being forced into marriage is a lot of times it is a historical view instead of a contemporary view of Muslim women in particular." Survey response (10/2/2017)

"Many of the books in my middle school classroom library discuss Muslim girls being oppressed being forced into marriage is etc. I’ve worked really hard today versify my classroom library to not reflect that and instead reflect the different opportunities at different Muslim girls and women have in the world." Survey response (10/2/2017)

"Again the students were amazed by the diversity of experiences of women in different Muslim nations." Survey response (10/2/2017)

What Gives Us the Right to Judge?:

"Last year we did a debate about how the military schools, there was a girl who wanted to wear hijab. she got accepted, but they said that she couldn't. And another military school said we will be happy to take her, and she can. And I assigned sides on it. The kids did not get to pick the side they necessarily agreed with. They had to research it. Kids were really mad at me. There were hijab-wearing girls that had . .. .I said this is how attorneys do critical thinking, this is how we do critical thinking. And it was awesome because they were forced to do critical thinking and that's my job. My purpose in that lesson was you can argue whatever point you're given, based on the data and research you find. And that was a great. that debate was amazing. That was a supreme court [case]. . .it fit into my American history work that I've been doing. It was really interesting. The kids that went into it thinking. . .well, no one else is allowed to wear, then I guess that's actually inclusive. They were really struggling with it, and I was thrilled."

The Dominance of Eurocentric and American-centric Perspectives:

"That was troubling to me in my interview. He's like I'm Turkish!" (2/17/2018)

Member check notes: She wasn't considering him Turkish because she was reading him as a white American. She felt like she was stereotyping Turkish identity. She said she recognizes that she also carries that lens. She said it's, "A specific lens that we have to be checking regularly. . .it's an ongoing process to create curriculum and space that is critical of yourself."

Teacher Identity and Navigating Personal Sharing:

"If a student asks me directly, I will share my religion." (2/17/2018) I don't hide it. Member check note: She wants her students to feel comfortable with their choice. She recognizes she has the privilege to choose that.

"I would like to say that my religious experience would have, but I think that if I'm going to just be honest here. I think that Islam is treated differently. It is treated 'other'. Jewish is still considered. It's still. . there is a Jewish-American culture here. There is a certain social capital to Jewish American culture especially in the northeast. There is a Jewish-American. . especially on the East Coast where I live." (10/5/2017)

"Actually, I'm originally a Jewish American New Yorker. My current community in New Jersey, there is a huge Islamic cultural center for Circassian people from Russia. Originally from Russia. Who then ended up in Palestine, and Syria, and Egypt and in certain areas. And that is why my population was really burst into life when these different conflicts were happening around the world. Because that mosque was bringing in families, and then families would bring in families. And all of the students were coming into my classroom. And that's where I learned about Circassian culture. I had no idea what that was. And that's really when I started to become almost a representative of the school for the Muslim students that were here. And what's interesting is that most of the Muslim students here are not ESL students; they are families that lived here and settled here because of this mosque and community center." (10/5/2017)

Member check note: She observed that the level of personal sharing depends on school culture. Her school is traditional. The culture doesn't want you to share your social activism. She is in a politically mixed community 50/50 republican democrat -So, she will get in trouble no matter what. (2/17/2018)

"I belong to a coalition it's called the sisterhood of Salaam/Shalom. And it's where Jewish women and Muslim women get together and just dialogue. We meet once a month. And we meet in local communities and we just dialogue about different issues that are coming up, and different. And those women have served, and their children, have served as a very valuable resource for me, for how I can round out my teaching to make it more accurate, inclusive, fulfilling, comprehensive. So they have served as mentors for me in my teaching." (10/5/2017)

"That perhaps that while they're sure that many of the members of the Islamic community are just lovely, regular people, that there are people coming into this country with not-so-wholesome intensions. . .and that perhaps I should be focusing my energy on other groups of students. Maybe students who were struggling with their learning: special needs students. And I was uncomfortable with that. I don't think that's the way we as teachers we make assumptions, especially as an American History teacher. Especially as a teacher of the constitution that I believe, that I work under. So, and this country is supposed to work under. So, that did not work with me. and I just continued to do what I feel comfortable doing. and if anyone has an issue with it I am ready to go down with it. Because that's how strongly I feel about it." (10/5/2017)

"I have the luxury of having taught for twenty years already, so, I have a little more confidence in what I feel comfortable doing in my classroom than someone who might be new. and working with because I am an ESL teacher I work with so many populations of students, and I do tend to have to be the representative in the building." (10/5/2017)

Teaching the Truth of Racism, War, and Occupation:

Member check note: One of her Egyptian students was Christian Egyptian. She made a comment that hurt her feelings. Talking about American history, about Christian proselytizing, Christian majority persecuting other faiths. Mentioning that Christian minorities can be persecuted in different contexts. She talked with her one on one after class and told her she would address the issue to the class the next day. The next day discussed majority/minority dynamics in diverse contexts to counter possible assumptions about who oppresses whom from the lesson of the previous day. (2/17/2018)

Lived Experiences of Islamophobia as a Part of Curriculum:

"Most of the Muslim students here are not ESL students; they are families that lived here and settled here because of this mosque and community center. But the school as a whole kind of doesn't recognize that. They think it's under my ESL purview." (10/5/2017)

"Because I want the students to feel a part of their own community. I think. . and when it's our own community, and they feel like an outsider for no reason. there's no reason for it." (10/5/2017)

"To have the faculty understand that a huge portion of our population our mainstream population, our American population, Americans. These are American students born here. Are Muslim Americans. That's also a shocking thing to many teachers: Muslim and American."

". . . like Detroit, possibly not, but it [Islam] is still viewed as a "foreign, not us". It is not American, and it is American. And that is the kind of." (10/5/2017)

"Many of our students here have been here for generations. And are still viewed as an Other." (10/5/2017)

Challenges:

"Sometimes what happens is, I truly think most new teachers are so enthusiastic and but sometimes things will be said accidentally. something will come out. and it comes out the wrong way, and it could be very painful for the students, and it could be very exclusionary. a lot times when there are lessons done on racism or it will say, there are certain cultures that people just make assumptions about. . and then they will use that culture. And that. . .

Melinda: defining the culture around the issue correct."

"Understand that there's a diversity of experience that when we say someone is Muslim, it doesn't mean one thing. Because a lot of people believe it means one thing, and a lot of the students who are believers believe it means one thing, or should, at least, mean one thing."

"So, the concept that to be Muslim doesn't mean one thing. I mean, I have Pakistani. I have Iraqi students. I have Iranian students. I have kids from UAE. I have kids from. . .we have kids from . . .i have kids from both sides of the conflict in my same classroom. And I have to negotiate those political differences. Those religious differences. I have students that say to girls: "You're not modest enough. you aren't putting on a headscarf." "You are too religious. You're putting it. . ." And those are issues that I deal with every day in my room, as well. And that respect within the cultures of . . .that we practice, and we present our faith, and all of our different faiths in many different ways. And I also have students that are from these same nations, who are Christian."

"And understand that there's a diversity of experience that when we say someone is Muslim, it doesn't mean one thing. Because a lot of people believe it means one thing, and a lot of the students who are believers believe it means one thing, or should, at least, mean one thing. So, I have that subtext in my room constantly. and that's something I have had to deal with as well. Very strongly, actually. Because it comes it bubbles up all the time."

"My main issue, actually, when I am teaching or talking about, in my classroom, is that we have students from many different nations. They're. . .within each of those nations how liberal or conservative they practice, is very different."

"We have to discuss there's a nationalism from each country, but in that we have different variants in faith practice, and how do we function here, now in this United States classroom in a respectful way?"

Membercheck note: Marisa observed there's a double fear with cultural content: "a)you might get in trouble, b) not doing it properly. . .no language for how to talk about it. Confusion around what is appropriate for discussion of faith and it contributions to society. Teachers need to be taught what is allowed what isn't." (2/17/2018)

Michelle

Quotes from interview on 10/17/2017, and member check on 2/2/18

What Gives Us the Right to Judge?

"One thing I can say about the students here is when it comes to having honest, respectful conversations, they do a very good job. But I also think that for a lot of than they want people to be able to understand. They want the non-Muslims to be able to understand them, and you know their culture, and their religion."

"And for some for some students, I also do that [start by asking them to identify similarities across cultures] because it's usually more difficult to identify similarities. So, I want them to use their brains a little bit."

"Well, why did this happen there?" "Why wouldn't something like that happen in the United States?" You know, looking at the quote Third World country perspective based on pandemic situation. Something that was in the news, and the fact that you know they don't have the resources to fight it."

"being able to understand our history from you know the Japanese standpoint during World War II internment camps."

"Being able to understand it from the Irish and Scottish standpoint you know working in the cloth factories in New England."

Veiling, Gender Norms, and Muslim Feminisms:

"I don't get the impression that the girls here feel like they face much sexism. I honestly think that they're more fearful of the Islamophobia than they are of the sexism."

" . . .with the girls it's definitely they feel like because of the hijabs they're more of the target if they go to a public school."

"sexism thing is kind of an issue just because of . . .I mean, in Islam, the lower role of the female. So that. . .it is not it's not an overt issue. It is not something that I have to deal with on a daily basis. But every now and then a parent will come in, and they won't want to speak with me because I am a female. They will want to speak with Mr. ___ [the guidance councilor]. Or, there will be students who are more disrespectful to their female teachers than their male teachers. So it - that kind of shows itself in that - - and that's just handled with: "You will respect all of your teachers with the same, the same amount." So yeah that's pretty much the only issue that occasionally rears its head here."

The Dominance of Eurocentric and American-centric Perspectives:

"There has been situation the past where some of the students are more disrespectful towards their Muslim teachers, because we have a couple, than they are towards their American teachers. So, and I mean, not just me but the you know another administrators at one of the other schools are trying to figure out why? Why would that be? And we still have no idea why. I don't know if it's because they are Muslim women? And so they feel like if he's a Muslim boy, he can. . . I don't know. I have no idea. So it comes up for, you know, all of teachers - not just the white teachers or the Muslim teachers - but that 'you will respect all of your teachers the same amount regardless of . . .' And I even ask . . .one of my students because it was a female student. and I asked her: 'Do you realize that you only do this in this teacher's class?' She's like: 'No.' And I asked her. I'm like: 'Can you think why? Why do you think this is the only teacher that you behave this way towards?" So she wasn't able to give me . . .she's like Ms. [teacher 14] I really honestly didn't realize it.' So I don't know if it's a comfort level? I don't . . I don't know."

Teacher Identity and Navigating Personal Sharing:

"my main concern would be having the teachers express their own opinions. I want it to be a dialogue between and among the students. I just want the teacher to facilitates not necessarily participate. . . my only hesitation is making sure that it's handled responsibly by the adult."

"I didn't want to get into my religion. I just wanted to know more about theirs, and that I think help to creates the bond that I have."

"I want the students who aren't Muslim, I want them to be able to learn from their Muslim peers. I want them to be able to understand, you know, what actually is Islam is not necessarily portrayed on news."

Lived Experiences of Islamophobia as a Part of Curriculum:

"There is no Islamophobia in the school. I've done a very good job I feel especially through my interview process - it's always something that is brought up. So I feel like I've been able to gauge prospective teaching candidates. Because obviously if there's anybody with any prejudice, I don't want them here."

"And it's a little bit more difficult I think with a Muslim population of students because they feel some of that prejudice. And so there is little they don't necessarily want to talk about it because they feel like that's what's going to come up. So I wanted them to know that you know we can talk about it can be safe place to talk about it."

"[the students at my school] have concerns because people just don't know about Islam. Though, all they know is what they you know gathered from listening to adults, or what they hear on the news. And they're, you know, fearful of the stereotypes that are attached. so they feel like [school name] schools is a safe place for them because in a mainstream a public school, like [name of local public school], chances are they would be the minority. Here they're the majority."

"The students that I've spoken with the most; they feel safest when they're in school. Even like last year when I was at the [school name] campus we got 15 Syrian students. And I know that their biggest obstacle was the fact that they did not speak any English. Now by the end of the year they were writing short essays, and giving speeches in front of the school. So, they made a ton of growth, but they didn't . . .they went to school and they went home. They didn't go anywhere, and they didn't want to be out. Like, outside playing because the neighborhood kids would pick on them. The boys they got beat up. So the school is where the kids feel the safest."

"even if it's not their own personal religion [referring to the local community], it's still their community. Whether they want to acknowledge that or not."

"comes from ignorance and lack of knowledge and information proper knowledge and proper information."

Neutrality:

"I stick strictly to the facts and that's the one way I can make sure that we're able to keep the separation of church and state, and it's also a situation where were not just discussing Islam."

"[I would want my students] to find out more history about . . . the history of Iran. Or you know anything else that was there [in CNN student news]. . .I didn't shield the students from it."

"But I wanted to make sure that it was as honest and unbiased as possible."

"try to get them to not avoid politics. And say, you know there's a safe way to do it."

"they [CNN student news] did a really good job of trying to keep things as neutral as possible."

"Because they're gonna encounter [stereotypes and harmful discourses]. So, it's better to let them encounter it in a safe place."

Nancy

Quotes from interview on 10/30/2017, member check 2/15/2018

Decolonizing Eurocentric Curriculum:

"if you weren't white and Christian that you know you just didn't have value." (10/30/2017)

"[the crusades] it's a seventh grade standard" (10/30/2017)

"Especially when we talk about the Crusades. I have to explain to them what happened there." (10/30/2017)

"they were just horrified they killed Muslims. Because they are Muslim. It was a territory thing too, but, . . you know. . .'Oh! Well, what's wrong with Muslims?' 'Well. nothing. I happen to think nothing, but at the time, you know, there was this idea that if you weren't white and Christian that you know you just didn't have value.'" (10/30/2017)

"This was during the time of the Crusades and that was all Muslim territory [explaining why Columbus was looking for an alternative route]" So if they see a bunch of white people coming they're going to kill them because they're afraid that the white people are to kill them. And they very well could have killed them, also. Just explaining that I think it was . . It was fifth-grade. So they're still babies. They have this very optimistic view about the world. This is when history gets really awful.. .in fifth grade. Slavery, and all this. So they were just. . They just couldn't understand why people would want to kill all the Muslims. And I briefly told them what the Crusades were." (10/30/2017)

"Today, in fact, we discussed the creation of maps, the first having Jerusalem at its center, and we talked about The Crusades." (10/30/2017)

"And here, it's very different. You know, we joke about the learning about 'dead white guys' in history." (10/30/2017)

"Middle of where? East of what? Well, East of Europe. Yes. So, who came up with that term? What do you think?" (10/30/2017)

"when kids ask: 'why do they want all this land?' 'Land is power. That's control.'" (10/30/2017)

"[school curriculum is] not usually not read and written for Muslim children or minority children of any kind." (10/30/2017)

"Christianity and European norms and ideals overshadow very real, valuable, and ongoing contributions from African, Asian, and Muslim societies, now and in the past." (10/30/2017)

"the Koran as an example. My kids all know what the Koran is. I had a test that I used last year for my on my SLO so like a pretest. And it asked what the book was for in Islam. and it gave examples, and the Qur'an was one. It was spelled KORAN and most of the students got it wrong. Because of the spelling." (10/30/2017)

"We were talking about Columbus, and you know his. . . we don't celebrate Christopher Columbus Day here, either." (10/30/2017)

"You have to go outside of the textbooks, because they are from a 'white winner' perspective." (2/15/2018)

"Christianity and European norms and ideals overshadow very real, valuable, and ongoing contributions from African, Asian, and Muslim societies, now and in the past." Survey response (10/24/2017)

Decolonizing as an Anti-Racist Approach:

"Melinda: So naming racism [in her previous school] was considered something incorrect to do, or?

Teacher 19: yes. race, or any kind of otherness. the LGBTQ community. we had a couple.. . and a few African American students. A couple of Latino students. any kind of Other was not protected. But yes as far as talking about Islam and Muslim people it just was sort of like this thing you didn't do."" (10/30/2017)

"And here, it's very different. You know, we joke about the learning about 'dead white guys' in history" (10/30/2017)

"Teaching African students from a textbook written from a white western perspective simply does not workin my classroom." Survey response (10/24/2017)

"even you know if you're teaching from a white perspective, you know, a more European perspective, the Crusades were pretty important. to me that's a huge part of our history, from both sides. so yeah I learned a lot about history last year. I love history but I knew way more about American history. But world history's - wow - huge. So yeah you have to you have to know this stuff." (10/30/2017)

Deconstructing Jihadi Terrorist Narratives and Images of a Violent Other:

"Talking about 9/11, you know, was really tough because -from a very white American perspective - you know there's . . .it's easy to blame this group of people. People who look like the people who attacked our country. But the kids, you know, they're just learning from their parents. They're not - I think I said on my survey, that's the school where they'll allow the children to opt out of learning about Islam." (10/30/2017)

Contemporary History and Current Events:

"When and when he [Trump] was elected last year my students were horrified and frightened and asking, you know, 'are we going to be deported?' and they were very very scared. And I've never seen a group of people hate someone as much as they hate Donald Trump." (10/30/2017)

Veiling, Gender Norms, and Muslim Feminisms:

"[in regard to sexism] I just don't ever want to say anything bad about any place, or their religion" (10/30/2017)

"When we're talking about belief systems. Especially, when it comes to women, and how women are treated - not by all of Islam - but in some places. you know. . it's hard to. . um.. . like personally sort of teach that and be like 'yeah, it's great. this is wonderful.'" (10/30/2017)

"I did show a video of - I don't know where - the little boy was driving the car. It was this music video and all these women in their niqab and hijabs were were and like these bright colors on scooters." (10/30/2017)

"Working within the Muslim community, I have seen none of this oppression, especially in our strong-willed and deeply independent female students." Survey response (10/24/2017)

"I don’t see a lot of oppression in my girls, if they are new to the country. They are much more traditional. But if they have been here a while... What woman doesn’t encounter sexism? They embrace traditional gender norms but more in terms of expectations for what a girl wears and not for what a girl does. There are a lot of moms who are professionals." (2/15/2018)

Lived Experience of Islamophobia:

"Before working with a predominantly Muslim student population, I was unaware of many of the truths about Islam and its followers. Having worked in schools with a white Christian majority of students, I can say without hesitation that "kids are kids"! Unfortunately, Muslim-American students face more challenges than the average student, and I truly feel that these challenges are due to a lack of proper education as it relates to Islam and its followers. Some of the schools I have taught in allow students to "opt out" of the unit on Islam based on permission or lack thereof from parents, thus furthering ignorance and hate. Even in my present school, where the majority of students are Muslim, our history textbooks were mildly if not overtly xenophobic and lacked comprehensive and complete information about the origins of and contributions from Islam. Columbus has the 2nd highest Somali population in the country, but the otherness still assigned to this group in our area is sad and frightening." Survey response (10/24/2017)

"Even though they would not be a racial minority in [school district], religiously and culturally they sure are. Even walking on streets, they said they'd experienced Islamophobia" (10/30/2017)

"My daughter had a student teacher at her school who is Muslim, who was there for less than two weeks. she was like 'I can't do this.' They were making bombs sounds and she walking." (10/30/2017)

Teacher Religious Identity and Navigating Personal Sharing:

"I grew up Christian" (10/30/2017)

"my grandfather was very poor growing up" (10/30/2017)

"I try to explain humanism to them" (10/30/2017)

"there's just so many wonderful religions out there I can't choose one. All of them have great things." (10/30/2017)

"So, you know I think it it helps them though with trust issue too." (10/30/2017)

"They sort of assume like because I'm .. . I'm a white girl that I'm umm. . Christian. And. . . I'm not religious at all. So, you know, I'm very open with them about that. Because I think that they should be exposed to all different kinds of people, and we do have a couple of . . .like two. . Christian students here, and then we have our Hindu students." (10/30/2017)

"I grew up in an Amish community. We talk about the Amish a lot because - I am not Amish, but I grew up with the Amish– and so it's interesting to them. Because, yeah there are a lot of similarities there." (10/30/2017)

Pamela

Quotes from interview on 10/16/2017, member check 1/30/2017

Challenging student biases:

"even in a Muslim-majority classroom we will still have debates about what is haram, or unallowed and what is halal, which is allowed. And that can cause a lot of hostility in the classroom."

"And no you don't have to shake their hand because I understand that can be considered haram to you but you are going work together"

"So, you're going to have to talk, and know that you can't be divided because this is not prayer time."

Decolonizing Eurocentric Curriculum:

"Melinda: I have a quote that you said in the survey (10/10/2017): 'whoever controls the media controls the mind.'

Which I really do believe. if we try it I really do believe because if we look at the news. If I were to turn on the news. . turn on a random ABC six or whatever Fox News, we may we may hit on the topic of the Somali bomb that happened yesterday, or the bomb that happened in Somalia yesterday that killed 300 people. But it won't be covered in depth as a natural disaster that claimed fewer lives, or . . . I don't know. Even though a life is a life, and they're both the tragic being lost, it's it's still it also has a lot to do with our curriculum because what I . . .I did go to public school. I grew up going to public school in Ohio. And unfortunately I cannot recall one instance of ever learning about Muslim cultures in a good light, or at all. I yeah like . . .I can't ever I know that I never would've learned where Somalia was if I wouldn't have interested in the field I'm in. Because up until even when I went to college we never talked . . . Somalia wasn't mentioned once. You know, unless we're talking about pirates, which is not a good way to introduce that topic. You know what I mean? And we never talked about Saudi Arabia. We could have mentioned Turkey, just in terms of the Ottoman Empire. But we never went in-depth about the religion or the culture or the traditions. We never went in depth. It was more like you had to experience it. You either have to try to find the experience on your own, or you may never really be introduced to it. Because I don't remember it in my textbooks and that was my subject that I was an "A student" in. And you know it would've been social studies. Or it would have been government class. And that was what I excelled in. So, no. We never learned it. Which is sad. And then, I know having textbooks and looking in the back of the book, and you could see pictures of the people who wrote it or contributed; not one of them are Muslim. Not one of them are from those countries. They're either white for you know African African- American. . . the people who have who taught who are either from America or have taught in America for the last 30 years. So it's not . . .you can get any textbook like that . . it's really sad that we are we are missing out on teaching a majority of students in this country about a majority in the world. There are almost like billion Muslims, and we don't know anything about them? This can't be right. You know this is not right. Yeah there's definitely something missing.

Melinda: yeah I think just omission is actually the hardest challenge.

Yeah! and I feel like maybe they . . . you know, I try to give people the benefit of the doubt. with looking at it objectively it's possible I could admit it because of just the negative things that we see in the in the media. So they feel if they were to talk about it it might glorify them in a positive way when it feels like. . . . you know like if we were to the only way 9/11 is mentioned is that it were . . it was . . . groups of extremists from the Middle East, who performed a terrorist attack on American soil. Now if we were to go back and say a group of people from the Middle East. Let's talk about this country. You know, actually, they have. . . they do this when they get married. . . they do this when they have children. . . they have this type of lifestyle. This is really work. People don't want to read about that because now we have already set up as terrorists in our head. We have already you know if we if we. . .we can backtrack when we have already established how they should be classified. So we have let American population down. We have let education down because we didn't try to understand them at all. And even by saying this people would look at me, you know. . .

Melinda: if you're loyal. and wonder I'm if I'm one of them. Because I'm like "Hey! Let's just hear about the culture little bit." You know? I mean they might think all she she's pro she's pro terrorism because she's from there. Well, there's terrorism everywhere. You know what I mean? So it's just. Yeah. It's ridiculous. We have let a lot of people down." (10/16/2017)

"In the U.S. public school system, we are given only minimal information which would pertain to other cultures' viewpoints, traditions, and cultures. Because many school board members and federal government Department of Education staff are of predominate 'white' descent, our texts and resources cater to students whose ethnicity is similar. However, due to the word "countries" being used, we must first look at the curriculum for the majority of schools in other countries, not cultures present within schools in the U.S." Survey response (10/10/2017)

"'Whoever controls the media, controls the mind." - I believe Jim Morrison said it best and similarly expressed my viewpoint on how oppressed the Muslim-majority countries are laid out." Survey response (10/10/2017)

"Rarely are WASP students, or students of European descent, given a true insight into Islam that does not pertain to the media's interpretation. Further investigation on the subject, correspondence with students whose cultures differ, and an overall willingness to learn more would only improve curriculum-based and instruction-based awareness of Islam and/or Muslim students' culture and achievements." Survey response (10/10/2017)

"I was teaching Social Studies in a public school in West Virginia. My students were 99.9% Caucasian and Christian. Not one student questioned the reasons for imperialism or the lasting effects of those movements." Survey response (10/10/2017)

Deconstructing Jihadi Terrorist Narratives:

"People don't want to read about that because now we have already set up as terrorists in our head." (10/16/2017)

"You know like if we were to the only way 9/11 is mentioned is that it were . . it was . . . groups of extremists from the Middle East, who performed a terrorist attack on American soil." (10/16/2017)

Veiling, Gender Norms, and Muslim Feminisms:

"And it's because their interpretation of the Koran says that women should be more meek. And that way. And I was like: "Well, it does say this. However, it says . . . when it would be only girls in the class, or only girls together, and men are not present. You know, you don't have to . . Number one, you don't have to wear your scarf. Number two, you don't have to have to be as reserved or shy.” (10/16/2017)

"we had a baby shower for one of the girls in my sixth period class. It was a boy versus a girl it was who can diaper this stuffed animal faster. And it was a blast. My boys and girls laughing. They were just.. . They were all over the place. They were just cracking up.” (10/16/2017)

Membercheck note: The boys won. (1/30/2017)

"So there are things that I don't budge on when it comes that [feminism]. I said: "No. Boys and girls are going to learn how to change a diaper because boys and girls may one day have to do it. It can't just be one or the other all the time. It doesn't necessarily work that way. . .In the case of a marriage, and the woman gets sick, what is the husband going to do? The woman is not going to stand up there, being physically ill . . ." (10/16/2017)

"I feel that a lot of our Muslim students here are unaware of a different worldview . . . you just have to know that this is a different culture. And because all of these things are more available here . .. .like jobs, and, you know, daycare, and things like this. Because those things are more available here, and you might not have family to support you. Because in those communities it is very . . you know, - -not individualist - - collectivist. It's very collectivist. So if I have a baby, my whole family's there. My mom is there to help me every day. If I was living over there. . . But it's not like that here." (10/16/2017)

"This new law passed in Saudi Arabia about women finally being able to drive because I have Saudi friends that live in, is that there's actually quite a few Saudi students in Columbus. And I was just dying to know what they thought about it. Because I know what their sentiments are about what they're able to do and what they aren't. And although - again - they aren't all the same. Some people. . some women are like "Well, I really want to drive. I don't mind being driven around by . . .somebody who's supposed to do it." A lot of them were like: "Well, it is great because I can't wait to have a license and be able to travel on my own." (10/16/2017)

Lived Experiences of Islamophobia as a Part of Curriculum:

"But teaching a student who is a minority as - because he is a Muslim or because she is Muslim - - and making sure that they were also included in other activities was met with some hostility by other students."

Teacher Religious Identity and Navigating Personal Sharing:

". . . having studied in the Middle East, having lived in the Middle East, having worked in the Middle East, and having Middle East genealogy, I was definitely into it and definitely interested in it."

“But the students know that I am definitely for them practicing their faith” They know if they have an issue or if there is something they need more clarification on it she can put it in terms they relate to. She has never been to Somalia, and a majority of her students are Somali. Doesn’t know how life is like in Moghdishu, - has a good idea and can guess about their religious teachings because they are 98% Muslims, that they have learned to shield themselves fro some things, and there are things are a part of daily life and daily practices. if you say your not able to pray right now they aren’t able to receive that information. “

“I feel like I am more receptive to their struggles, and their rights in America now as new residents.”

Member check note: They are OK to ask her about issues.

"And they they know that my my heritage, and my background is also similar. So they they know they can freely talk to me about it."

“I have read the Qur’an. I have a copy of it.”

Rose

Quotes from interview on 9/16/2017, member check 1, 12/19/2017, member check 2, 3/14/18

Contemporary History and Current Events:

Rose told an Israeli colleague at her school, "I am from Palestine." Rose's grandparents moved from Israel after the naqba. Her maternal grandmother was a Jew of Russian descent. Rose said: "That means a lot. That means Islam accepts all faiths." (3/14/18)

Grandma has the key of her house and she gave it to her neighbor who was Christian, left in 1948. (3/14/18)

Her mother is applying for passport but they don't have Palestine in database. But she was born in 1945, there was no Israeli state. (3/14/18)

Veiling, Gender Norms, and Muslim Feminisms:

"And how the people will treat women. As a mother. As, so we explain that. So the woman has respect and they have to respect the woman and appreciate them as a mother, sister, wife. We talk about that. and also in Qur'an, we explain the ayat. And what the ayat says about women and men. And there is no difference between men and women. So we explain and we focus on this. Nobody is better than the other.

Melinda: How do the students take that? Or, do you remember when you were teaching that, any dialogue?

When we teach that Qur'an because there is explanation about. And there is no difference. There is an ayat . . no difference between man and woman. And we talk about heritage a lot. And also the man will take his money, or his heritage from his parents.

Melinda: Inheritance.

Inheritance, Yeah. And the woman. We have to explain it. This is in eighth grade. About heritage.

Melinda:That's a good age.

That's a good age to understand.

Melinda: They like . . .they freely ask questions.

Yes.

Melinda: So do you remember any of their questions when you were teaching that?

I didn't . . . teach them because my colleague was teaching them, but I know this. that we teach there is no difference between man and woman and Hadith and Qur'an." (9/16/2017)

Teacher Identity and Navigating Personal Sharing:

"I was in a charter school. The kids. The girls. They told me: Oh! We love your scarf." And I gave some Muslims, some of them, some scarfs as gifts. And then the other day, after, another student came and she said: 'I want a scarf.'

[laugh]

I told her: 'You are not Muslim.' And she want to wear it. So I gave her.

That's sweet.

Yeah.

And she wear it.

It's a child. So, it's different.

And another child she told me: 'I am not Muslim, but I want to cover my hair.'

Because they are Hindus. And sometimes I hesitate. Am I going to tell them: "Why you don't you?" They don't eat that because they believe . . .But the kids, they start to argue with each other, and I hear them. They start to say: "There is only one God. How do you worship another god that is an animal?" They start and they start to think logically. So I believe with one God, but here in this school I can't . . .so I say it. .. .I tell them logically. "Let's think. If I put a glass of water here you will understand that I put, right?" I started to explain with out telling them that that's Islam or something. I tell them: "What? Who do you think created this water? And, who. . . can I create a flower? Can I create . . . " They said "No." Then I said "So, can animal create anything? Can I make him my God?" Then they start. . and I say " Just think on those questions."

"I took my responsibility to talk about the way. Yes. I said it's good let the kids to understand what's going on.

So, especially the war in Syria?

Yes.

OK. And Iraq as well?

Or, sometimes Iraq, yeah.

Did you ever share your own experiences [she is Syrian and came to U.S. because of the war]?

I'll always share my own experiences. And, when we have war you hear from the news some people they didn't find any kind of food . . that's why I make connection between food and war. And here you are in the United States. You have a lot of things. You have food. You have everything. But there the people they didn't find anything to eat. They start to keep the food to eat only what they need, and yeah. Because they start to think with the other people. They didn't find food. They eat grass. And I told them we have to be thankful for every moment that we have food and water and electricity because over there they don't have anything. So I try to connect between the war and Islam and here. Because I want them to raise in a good way and to understand. .. . and to appreciate everything they have. To appreciate. Also to appreciate their classes. You are blessed because you have school, you have teacher. Over there they don't they wish to learn but they can't. so they understand."

"They learn from a Muslim how to be patient. How to be thankful for every moment, and I share my story. Because we left Syria. We left everything. We didn't take anything. Even the clothes. Only the thing that we. I told them because we are Muslim we have to learn, to learn more, and to get a degree. And when the war happened in Syria, I didn't take anything. Only my degree. Only my learning. And when I came here. So I can teach you. This is invitation to learn more. Not only about Islam. Also to. . . a second-grader, he told the kids: "If you didn't learn you will not get a job. And you will not have a home. and then you will be homeless." This is a second- grader. He told the kids.

Were they upset, or?

Yeah. Then then they said: "Yes, he is correct. We have to study and to work hard to get our degree. And this is how Muslims should be. To study. To work hard." That's the value of learning. Because we have this value in Islam. Of learning. And I was shocked when second grade, he talked in the . . . .this like logic. He explained.

He was very smart. You know, the same kid, he learned from me a lot. He was. In the beginning he didn't do anything. In the end of the year, he was the top student in the class. He was. You know, he was taking his socks . .from his feet and he throw it. He's playing in the class. And in the end he understand that we have to. I teach in different way, and in a fun way. He learns. He loved. And then he got it. And had beautiful handwriting, and then he did his homework. He shocked me when he told his peers: "You have to study. You have to do our homework." And then, yeah. "Because Ms. [teacher 7] she shared her story, and she has a degree and she can pay her bills." [laughs] So, the value of learning. And I always share that.

It was second grader teaching his fellow-second-graders.

Yeah."

Teaching the Truth of Racism, War, and Occupation:

"I spend many periods of my schedule to talk about war and to talk about value of Islam. Because also with kids and to talk about those issues. What's happened. Also, I when you see the kids at lunch time they throw the food.

[laughs]

And then. I start to tell them. Here is not Islamic way. to deal with food. You have to keep the food. Because some people they didn't treat it with respect, yeah.

I try to include this in my lesson, or my, any chance, I try to explain that.

Yeah, so when you would take those periods you take it out of your normal curriculum was it in response to the news? Like, was it to talk about current events.

I took my responsibility to talk about the way. Yes. I said it's good let the kids to understand what's going on.

So, especially the war in Syria?

Yes.

OK. And Iraq as well?

Or, sometimes Iraq, yeah.

Did you ever share your own experiences [she is Syrian and came to U.S. because of the war]?

I'll always share my own experiences. And, when we have war you hear from the news some people they didn't find any kind of food . . that's why I make connection between food and war."

"Like in that moment when it happened, I don't have any book, or. . I have to deal with it, to talk about. Sometimes, yes, we have to share with the stories about how to help each other. We focus on the values of Islam a lot.

Umm hmmnn.

Like helping, working, a lot of values. With the stories.

So, stories that you just know yourself, or stories. .

No. From a book.

OK.

Can you share any of those?

A lot of stories, but. . .we used to have a library in [Islamic School]. We have to choose it. To pick every Friday, for example. I used to pick a story.

In Arabic?

Eeeh.. . Actually, both. In Arabic and in English. Because they don't understand in Arabic too much. So, even if it's in Arabic, we translate to English."

"In Islamic school, even American teachers they are teaching social study. Because I was there. The principal said you have to connect between the history. . .or social studies and Islam. Even if you are not Muslim. So, you have to talk with the . . . islamic teacher and to involve the curriculum with those values. So they have to explain the history, or during social studies."

"Melinda: non-Muslims bullying Muslims?

Or even Muslim. I have a girl, she was African American in this school. And her family they turn to become Muslim. And she found that she's different than the other kids. And I tell her that you are like the same the others. She said they bully me and hurt me. and we try, I try to let them write. . because they pushed her and she fell down. . .

And I let them to write a letter for this girl and to say I am sorry you are my friend. That's her feeling. that she doesn't belong. She is not a real Muslim, or. . I don't . . . can't guess what's kids, , and I let them to write a letter to her, and to stay with her ten minutes every day, and to . . .

So you said. "That's not allowed. You're not allowed to tell someone that they're. . "

It's not allowed. not OK

Yeah. She was crying. She feel. . .

Did it affect your curriculum?

It does. Because you have to cut your lesson. Cut your time. and then you have to explain what happened. Maybe I don't go. Like, one day, or two periods , and I don't teach. To tell them. . .respect values of Islam. Yes. "

"many period of my schedule to talk about war and to talk about value of Islam. Because also with kids and to talk about those issues. What's happened."

Imperialism as Israeli Occupation:

"In religion class, two years ago. We discussed Israel, and the students knew from personal experience. The kids know about Israel. And then we share some stories about occupation in Israel. They took the land in Israel. They are killing people there. The kids saw this with their own eyes. We also shared about the history of occupation in Syria. We gave them examples of imperial powers occupied Arabic-speaking countries; such as France occupying Syria.

Melinda: So you talk about the word occupation.

Rose: Yes, we talk about that.

Melinda: That's helpful. Okay, thank you. Can you remember a time when that word came up?

Two years ago, I taught about the history of Islam in regard to battles between Muslims and non- believers, and the prophet Muhammad at that time. This makes it easy for the kids to understand." 9/16/2017

Member check note: Doesn't teach that we should fight non-believers. Includes stories of how Muslims live in peace with other faith communities because Islam expects Muslims to be tolerant of other faith communities and to live in peace with all kinds of people. "That's the way I grew up. Even my Jewish grandmother converted to Islam." (3/14/2018)

Friend: non-believer means other than Jewish and Christian - they are believers. (3/14/2018)

Member check note: she was teaching the history of Islam separately. Now when she teaches about wars of today she makes a distinction war and imperialism, but now they are very close to each other. Because imperialism is a case of a more powerful country dominating a less powerful country. (3/14/2018)

Member check note (12/19/2017): Rose recognizes the volatile nature of debating the right of Israel to occupy Palestinian territory. She shared with me that she advises her daughter to drop the matter if she encounters people who disagree with her about Israel. She said,

"You have to say the right thing. To stand up for yourself."

Melinda: Do you caution her?

If she has fear, it's better not to speak. It depends. Sometimes you have to stand up for yourself, and other times you should sit down. If there is something threatening her, she should drop it." (12/19/2017)

"I want to share two things with you: I have a friend who teaches kindergarten. Her son told the teacher I am from Palestine. The teacher showed an Israel map. The boy went home and told his Mom, 'I am from Israel.' She got angry and said we are not from Israel, we are from Palestine. The Mom said to the teacher we are not from Israel. The teacher argued at first, then put Palestine next to Israel." (3/14/18)

Lived Experience of Islamophobia:

"Do you find that students are ashamed to be Muslim especially when there are those news reports.

Yeah. That's sad.

[daughter] esp because there's a lot of bullying. umm hmmn.

[daughter] it's easy to. . ." (9/16/2017)

"We hear in the media something happened, and it happened by Muslims. Recently, or, we do, or we speak to the kids that it's not from Islam. That it's not acceptable. That it's a red line. So we try to understand because they want to know that Islam is killing. . because they heard a lot of from media. So we have to take our time to explain what's happened. Or that this is not related with Islam because Islam focusing on peace on not killing. To be nice. We have to explain this." (9/16/2017)

"I wanted to share also that some students. . . One of him, his name is Bilal, and he says "I don't like it." because it's a Muslim name. And he says "I want to change it to Mike", or . . . I can't remember. He wants to change. Just because of his name. so, we try, and then I brought a story [children's book, Bilal] and I started to read that you have to like your name and being a Muslim is not a shame.

Umm hmn. Yeah, and the story. But this boy he wants to change his name. And he's ashamed by his name because it's a Muslim name. And he said, "I live here, and I have to change my name." A lot of stories you hear from kids. Especially when you hear something happened. In any country by Muslim or . . . he brought that up was that in class.

In the class. In front of other students?

And after salat.

After prayer.

Yeah, yeah.

Do you see why? I don't want my. . .OK, "I change my name" and then I have to take a step. I can't remember if same day or after I found this story.

And you brought the story.

To be proud of your name. To be proud you are Muslim. You did not do anything bad." (9/16/2017)

Member check note (3/14/18): Her daughter experienced hate when a student told her to go home, and the teacher didn't say anything. The topic they had been discussing was Trump's election, asking the question of whether or not to accept immigrants. School didn't make any statement about welcoming immigrants. The school is very diverse, but the administration didn't do anything.

Sally Brown1

Quotes from interview (11/1/2017), member check on (2/17/2018), survey response (11/1/2017)

Decolonizing Eurocentric Curriculum:

"In Anthropology I do a unit on Orientalism. Students read excerpts from Said's work, as well as read anthropological articles and journals on Islam and women and the perspectives of Muslim women in the west. It is a great advantage that I have so many Muslim students who are also willing to share their experiences in an academic way." Survey response (11/1/2017)

"Every time I talk about this, about these issues, there's always this feeling women. . . Muslim women are becoming more conservative as time goes on . . . in reaction to like this need to show their distance from the West." (11/1/2017)

". . .categorization of the Other in a way that one group gives longer power and makes the other group helpless." (11/1/2017)

"We also look at it from like a foreign policy perspective. Like how does our connotation of these groups impact the way that we frame our policies." (11/1/2017)

"It creates . . you know, like Said says, it creates this one general stereotype, where we just plug and play everyone." (11/1/2017)

1 Sally specified a last name when we discussed her pseudonym. Anti Racist Approach:

"Islam is directly tied to skin color. If you have dark skin, dark hair, country of origin directly tied to being Muslim. . . If you look a certain way, you are [perceived as] Muslim. And if you are Muslim you are [perceived as] a threat." (11/1/2017)

"Talking about the intersection of race and religion is a scary thing. It's easier to talk about race in my classroom because people see it first. Many people who are Muslim but do not display it can be chameleons. Is that somehow betraying your actual religion? Women are the ones who have to make that decision." (11/1/2017)

"Teaching Islam in its multiple facets, you have to teach intersectionality of Islam. Islam has existed in Africa over 1000 years, Muslims in Africa often exhibit their Islam in different ways." (11/1/2017)

Teaching About the Other Through Their Creativity:

"Islam isn’t what you see on TV; it exists in many different places, pathways for knowledge" (11/1/2017)

"We read some Muslim texts. They read Sunjiata which is the the . . . it's what the Lion King is based on. It’s the tale of ancient Mali. It's basically about the founder of the Kingdom of Mali, whose name is Sunjiata, and he's Muslim, and he makes the pilgrimage."

". . .the spread of Islam and how Islam created trade routes and created pathways for knowledge across - not just Africa, but into Europe. We read excerpts of the travels of Marco Polo which also has Islamic influence and then in 11th and 12th grade something between Marco Polo two and then 11th and 12th grade."

"I look at Islam in the US from a government perspective, and from a rights perspectives. So looking at it with a First Amendment lens."

"The kids get this idea that Islam isn't necessarily what you see on TV in that it exists in all these different places."

What Gives Us the Right to Judge?:

"when they realize it's not necessarily attached any one religion, and then when they realize that we do things here and that are just as, like, questionable. Then it really starts open their eyes and allows them to start questioning things."

"Is it right for us to try to eradicate these things? What gives us the power or the right to say that these things are issues when they are embedded in another's culture?"

"In like you know the perspectives of these women that have been circumcised. And they start to really like: 'Okay.'"

"My white kids come back and say "Everyone was white and no one has a diversity of opinion. And all of a sudden I'm there asking people what about this? and what about that? And they're looking at me like I'm crazy" because they've never interacted with someone who's Indian. They've never interacted with someone who is hispanic on a daily basis, in an authentic way."

"I always go, like a, local/global, personal/other, insider/outsider perspective."

"we talk about things on a very personal level before I give them anything where they could potentially be judgmental to others."

"You know that one country's freedom fighter is another country's terrorist. . . looking at things from that perspective. And just because we use on this side what gives us the right to judge this side? And when is something a human rights issue? And when is something part of someone's culture that you don't agree with?"

"It's one thing to give them the technology, and give them the skills, but if they don't have the ability to really digest the information by using those pieces [global - she connects her content to her Lebanese family], then you're just you're not doing anyone any favors."

Knowledge Lenses:

"I do it [curriculum about Islam], more or less, from a migration perspective because I think it's easier to understand people moved to a new place. So many of my kids are migrants it will be easy for them to pick up and understand." (11/1/2017)

"Currently my students in Anthropology are studying the effects of migration on Puerto Rican migrants in the US and a retrospective discussion of the imperial consequences on the island are discussed. Additionally, the Anthropology 11 students are discussing migrant workers form Mexico and have critically investigated the impacts of imperialism and colonization on Mexico and how that has affected stratifications within Mexican society." Survey response (11/1/2017)

"I provided frameworks with regard to theory, and ways of processing information." (11/1/2017)

"They use theory anyway, they just don’t use the words for it.” (11/1/2017)

"One of the major theories that use is Pierre Bourdieu capital cultural capital." (11/1/2017)

"We give kids lenses through which to view things. They're knowledge lenses. We use a lot of those terms for them to, like, pull information through. . . body modification is something that every, every culture does." (11/1/2017)

"I look at different belief systems but I hone in on Islam" (11/1/2017)

"I use a Socratic form. So it's really question-based." (11/1/2017)

"Most of my students use the terms developed and developing and recognize that even this is not a full picture of what is occurring." Survey response (11/1/2017)

Teacher Identity and Navigating Personal Sharing:

"I have a multicultural family"

"My dad is Lebanese"

"I usually talk about my experiences first."

"I think if you are not connected to, or impacted by, what you teach, you should not be teaching."

"If you are not impacted by what you teach you shouldn't teach it."

"When traveling and spending a lot of time in the Middle East or around Arabs to see all of the varied views of. . like the portrayal women. Like, the portrayal of Muslim women. The portrayal of Christian women. It has always surprised me that their views are probably even more diverse and potentially more controversial, than like Westerner's views are. People who lived in the society have very strong opinions about how women should act."

"if you are not impacted by what you teach you shouldn't teach it And so my dad's parents were arranged."

Member check notes (2/17/2018):

In teacher training she was told never tell your students your political identity. I wonder how teacher training plays into discussion of religion. In modules there is still an emphasis on the division of church and state.

"I am about the only person who talks about religion." Other teachers in her school don't talk about religion.

Similar to the idea of a post-racial society. "I wonder if we live in a post-religion society? In academia people place a lot of faith. . . maybe liberals put religion second, pursuit of knowledge first."

Veiling, Gender Norms, and Muslim Feminisms:

"It's interesting to also hear their perspectives. West Africans do not cover. At all. My East Africans do cover. My Middle Easterners often times just choose. So some days they do, and some days they don't. I have kids that started high school as hijabis, and by 11th grade their veil is gone."

"To kind of see that I can still be Muslim and not cover. I actually was just having a discussion. A student who graduated four years ago came back to see me. I didn't recognize her. I didn't know who she was. She's like, 'Hey!' I'm like, 'Hiiii'. She was like, 'Do you remember me?' I'm like 'No.' She's like, 'I used to veil.' She is Somali and she is very conservative.. "

"to kind of see that I can still be Muslim and not cover."

"They wrote reflections, and it was very interesting. Like, 'I don't know how these women do this. I felt so exposed.' 'I couldn't hide behind my hair.'"

"I use a lot of reflective writing. Low pressure personal responses. She finds out so much about them. Allow them to infuse themselves personally, making assignments broad to allow personal connections to come out." (2/17/2018)

"That's where I had, a few years ago when the kids wanted to see what it was like to wear the veil. I'm like, ""well, let's talk about what's involved here. So, what do we need to do first?"" And they were like, ""We need to probably like, get a panel of Muslim girls together and ask them how they feel about it."" And, I'm like, ""Just girls?"" And, they're like, ""Well, let's get guys too."" So, they did. They did. An all call, and people showed up at lunch, and they gave them their feedback. And, for the most part, they said, ""You know. We think it's actually pretty cool that you guys want to wear the veil. As long as you do it in a respectful manner. So we'll teach you about it.

[The boys didn't veil] didn't because that was the one thing they said would be disrespectful. But the boys did talk about how they thought it was very interesting that all these restrictions - so to speak - were placed on women whereas they could do whatever they wanted. And so it did end up being a very interesting dialogue, gender-wise. Especially for my Muslim boys, who saw these women choosing to veil. And like, really had a bit more respect for the way. . you know, these Americans were willing to approach Islam. You know, an outward sign of Islam. To me that was probably one of the coolest products that the kids have designed."

"the boys did talk about how they thought it was very interesting that all these restrictions - so to speak - were placed on women whereas they could do whatever they wanted. And so it did end up being a very interesting dialogue, gender-wise."

"Especially for my Muslim boys, who saw these women choosing to veil. And like, really had a bit more respect for the way. . you know, these Americans were willing to approach Islam."

"I look at it really is very much the feminist lens and looking at it through the feminization of poverty."

"I use Orientalism through a feminist lens. . .what does Said say about how Orientalism has impacted the view of women. Not just in the Middle East but also any woman of color."

"She [Fernea, in "Guests of the Sheikh"] doesn't have a lot of theory. But what she talks about there really is the essence of why everything details in his idea of Orientalism doesn't have a lot of theory. But what she talks about there really is the essence of why everything details in his idea of Orientalism"

"we look at everything as how it impacts women"

"a strong feminist focus. Particularly when we speak about Islam"

"So, you know, most recently, looking at some of the issues that deal with child marriage, and how the Syrians have been impacted. Then you get into the gender piece. Because it's one thing to do something to a woman, but another thing to do something to man. Ummn. . and when you still live in a culture very masculine the things that make men masculine continue."

"focusing on women, like, and the impact of these things on female populations. . . it's: a) easier. Because more out there. It's like more in your face. Secondly, it also is like an eye-opener for my male students because I don't think they really think some of these issues are issues."

"Most of the human rights issues that we discussed in the Western world are feminine."

Member check note (2/17/2018):

She has been reading about the decolonization of gender. We actually colonized gender. She has a lot of gender fluid kids. She told them, "It's helpful for me to put this in an academic vocabulary." Her students gave her books on decolonizing gender. She said, "I don't want to be the one with all the answers." (2/17/2018)

Shock Value:

"So I agree that it could be traumatic but I think that it's only as traumatic as we allow it to be."

"And so I wouldn't just throw it in front of them and say, "hey! Read it!" There's a discussion about rites of passages, and we talk about what rites of passages are. And we talk about rites of passage in the United States.

"It's important for them to see . . .see someone wrestling with potentially controversial material. And in a non-insulting way."

"Especially with high schoolers, we give them things that are very safe. . .things that are shocking or challenging are. . . if used appropriately, elicit really fantastic reflective skills."

"So that's why the circumcision article comes in. . .it comes in about week three or four. Because I also think about ethical things, and I want them to think about what we think of as issues, and whether or not they are really issues."

"important to see someone [the teacher] wrestling with controversial material in a non-shocking way."

"circumcision is interesting. Especially for my boys. Because they think about it. And they don't necessarily think about human rights issues."

"A Muslim girl. She's Iraqi. And she took it home and showed it to her Mom. And her Mom said "I can't believe your teacher gave you this." And she said: "I know. Isn’t it so crazy?" And then her Mom shared with her that every woman in her family had been circumcised. And so, the girl was like: 'Uuuuummmnn' She came back and she's like, 'Ms. _____. You know, I showed this to my Mom.' And I was like 'Oh was she upset?' And she was like, "Well, she really didn't understand why you were giving it to us." She's like, "But we had a really interesting conversation. . .' and she's like, 'That I would like to share with you. And, if it's OK, I'd like to talk to the class about it.'"

White Complicity Counter Measures:

"And I also have kids that fall on both sides of the spectrum. As well as live in the fringes of the spectrum. So I have a really large population of Somali students who are not necessarily included as being Middle Eastern. They may themselves identify with a lot of the things that happen in the Middle East. I also have fairly decent population of Orthodox Jewish students, as well as Palestinian refugees" (11/1/2017)

"I have a lot of Muslim students from all over. So they range from African Muslims to American Muslims to Southeast Asian Muslims" (11/1/2017)

"Muslim students - is them talking about their experiences here in the US with Islam." (11/1/2017)

"And the kids have talked a lot about how diverse the mosques are, and how diverse the people are that go there, and the interpretations of Islam are. I look at Islam in the US from a government perspective, and from a rights perspectives. So looking at it with a First Amendment lens." (11/1/2017)

"Being at the school that I'm at, because it's a lottery school, my classroom is the most diverse environment that most of my students will ever have in their lives." (11/1/2017)

"My job is actually quite easy because all I do is, like, drop the bomb in the middle of the room and the kids take it. Like, they pick it up and they run with it.. . .Because they have been empowered to do that. I'm not teacher." (11/1/2017)

"I'm so fortunate to be in such a diverse classroom." (11/1/2017)

". . .the Muslim community in ______is very diverse, as well. And so what you see is that the mosques themselves range from being very cloistered - like only Somali families go to this mosque - to being kind of the a catch-all for anyone who is Muslim. And my students have run some very interesting research looking at that." (11/1/2017)

"My scores are amazing. It doesn't matter what state test they take." (11/1/2017)

Shifa

Quotes from Interview on 10/19/2017, member check 1/30/2018

Lived Experiences of Islamophobia:

"It's mostly terrorism which has plagued, I would say, the whole community, student community, you know. Like, sometimes they will just be scared, even if they're not doing anything. You know? Like, just talking about something. Just expressing their views. And they would think oh don't talk about that. they will come after you. because this is what you said. That fear. I have like smelled that fear, kind of." (10/19/2017)

"It's a fear of the unknown on the one hand and a propaganda on the other hand. Everyone is scared of the unknown. But when it is propagated it make it worse." (1/30/2018)

Colonizing Dynamics of Knowledge:

"Muslims are spread all over the world. . . they themselves have been introduced to a variety of cultures in their curriculum by virtue of their [experience of] colonialism. Like wherever there was, like, France, or Great Britain, or it was like the Dutch. So, they are familiar with their culture [the culture of the imperialists]. Even before they land on their continents, you know. so they are already familiar, but themselves, they are always aliens for the other people." (10/19/2017)

"Like when I came here I knew so much about America. So many things which I already knew, thousands and thousands of miles away. I knew America, right? But Americans, they see me as an alien. Where am I from? Where is this place on Earth? Oh my goodness. If there's a country by that name on this planet. you know that kind of thing." (10/19/2017)

"That is one major reason that they aren't that welcoming. If they hear that someone is Muslim they take a step back, instead. It's a human thing. This is what I want to know, this is what I don't have time. Education could make a difference." (1/30/2018)

Member check note(1/30/2018): She noted that while education could make a difference, a superficial approach can make it worse.

"I remember a lady. We used to have discussions you know when they used to come to the restaurant. And, this lady, we were talking about languages and she said like oh my goodness how can you speak like three or four languages? I said well, if you try you can. It's not that hard. And she said 'But I don't have to. Why should I learn any of them?' I mean right to my face she said that." (10/19/2017)

"I don't remember what the students were asking [about scientists from their countries], but they were totally surprised when I told them that we have them. Because they had no idea." (10/19/2017)

Sophia

Quotes from interview on 5/4/2017, survey response (3/16/2017)

Decolonizing Eurocentric Curriculum:

“So we've been spending a lot of time talking about how . . like. . .the paths to extremism. How one becomes extreme. And looking at the case study of Pakistan, you know an independent nation, and basically how it's evolved since then. But you know we talk about it. Basically, they keep bringing up the idea of Eurocentricity is the root of the. . The Taliban can be rooted in Eurocentric thinking. The creation of a colonial state, and then the subsequent abandonment of. And once it no longer served European interests, you know they were willing to sort of vacate that state. And. So I think today a kid brought up Eurocentricity when discussing the root causes of religious extremism in that region.

Melinda: And how that's a part of understanding what Pakistan is?

Right. And having a broader understanding of this cultural perspective." (5/4/2017)

"something that we've discussed around: this concept of Western saviorhood, and what's the difference between, like, positive participation and cultural humiliation." (5/4/2017)

"We've had to get kids to think about like. The difference between. . wanting to help in a way that addresses the underlying needs of the community, versus participation that forces conformity, continued conformity to Western ideals." (5/4/2017)

"Students were surprised to stop and realize the bias they carry into this conversation [on term 'Third World']." Survey response (3/16/2017)

Contemporary History and Current Events:

"Yeah, so the theme of our current - the unit I'm on - for 6th grade, is on Islam. and early Islamic history. We look at Pakistan as a case study. The whole, the guiding questions for the whole unit is "What is Islamophobia?" And that's kind of a guide as we look at Islamic history. and the challenge has been - we started the unit in January and it's been - or the idea of Islamophobia or Muslim identity has been in the mainstream media, in some facet, almost every day. In regard to the travel ban. The executive order that a variety of countries. So since then it's really been kind of a need or a desire to respond to what the kids bring in each day. Cause what the kids bring in each day. I mean we're you know the school's located in [major U.S. city], and umm we have a relatively, kind-of hyper literate student body and they are very well-versed in current affairs - not to say that other kids are not - - in my experience, our kids pay more attention to the news than I have ever had middle schoolers pay attention to the news. And. you know, sometimes, they come in each day, with an article that I had - they come in with articles I haven't even seen yet. Wanting to talk about it and dissect it." (5/4/2017)

"Yeah. A tool that I think is really effective is the documentary "Reel Bad Arabs" We open with that. That's kind of an opening event in the beginning of the unit to set the tone for why we're gonna spend time studying this culture and this religion and its historical time, its sort-of historical base. Is because this Eurocentric view has allowed this sort of one marginalized view to emerge.

Melinda: That's really powerful. So, like, this deep Eurocentric view allows a bevy of films every year to come out that just keep perpetuating that.

Right. Right. Exactly. And pointing out, like, the deep, the deep structure, right? That, like, institutionalized, kind-of expected narrative. And asking kids to recognize it. For example. . And there - there are other interesting texts that are modern texts that are doing that same thing. So, though an Indian American and not someone who's a believer in Islam, but. . . netflix series "Master of None", which was a big kind-of media sensation a couple years ago, he has an excellent episode that we watch in class where he confronts that in modern times. So, he talks about going out for casting in L.A. and how he's only ever getting cast as a cab driver. Or a bodega owner, or something like that. So we kind of pair "Reel Bad Arabs" which shows the hidden vilification of Arab people throughout history, through movies. So that one's really powerful. Because that's what we use to set the tone: that this Eurocentric domination has allowed this marginalization, and this limited narrative of an entire community of people. And that's kind of why we're going to study it." (5/4/2017)

"The idea of Islamophobia or Muslim identity has been in the mainstream media, in some facet, almost every day. In regard to the travel ban." (5/4/2017)

"[We're] witnessing aggressive, kind of blatant, government mandate of discrimination for the first time in their lives, and in a way that feels so concrete. They want to talk about it." (5/4/2017)

". . . it's given an immediacy to ancient history. That potentially wouldn't have been . . otherwise, with kids wanting broader historical context." (5/4/2017)

"We talked just today about how imperialism and post WWII politics helped create much of the political instability in the modern middle world." Survey response (3/16/2017)

What Gives Us the Right to Judge?:

“And they have - you know that concept of sort of like a "name it to tame it" idea. That, if you just tell kids it's this and they don't get it, they don't have a framework with which to look at it - if you describe, like. If you teach kids what like. . . . a hasty generalization is, what availability bias is - it both names the bias that they see, but I think it gives a context for why it happens. It allows you to be confrontational of history without also being, like, condemning history. . right? Look with kids and say listen. Like we're getting, this is everything you have so far is either, like availability bias or confirmation bias. Right? We look to affirm the things that make us look good.

Umm hmmn.

And history. That is a lot of how Western history evolved.

Yeah. Umm and with the Eurocentric bias in particular, is that sort-of - or are there other names you use for it.

Yeah. We talk about Eurocentric bias.

Melinda: has the word development specifically come up?

No. We haven't . . we don't use the word. . well, that's not true. . we do use the vocabulary developing world instead of third world. That was actually a phenomenal moment for me as an educator. Because I have said something about Third World earlier in the unit without thinking about it all the way through. [laughs] This boy. This 6th grade boy was like:'Yeah, but isn't that kind of like a rankist view?' and I was like, 'yep. Yes, it is.' I was like, 'You're totally right.' and he was like 'That's rankism, right?' We used that we're better so now we get to be first world. " and I was like, 'Yep! Umm hmmn' And that's the thing. When you equip them with this vocabulary it requires even more vulnerability on your part. Because they get really smart and then they start testing you. [laughs] And then you're like, 'Oh! Dang. Ok, fine.' They start using all these tools that I've given you and now I'm even more accountable." (5/4/2017)

“a real focus our whole school year. It's framed around . . my work is framed around. I don't know if you're familiar with the work of a woman named Donna Hicks. She is a social psychologist out of Harvard, out of the Weatherhead school of International Affairs. Um And she wrote a book called "Dignity". It's about the idea that this is a need of most, really comes to the root of all conflict is people feeling that their dignity has been violated. So, you know, she helps with peace and reconciliation committee for apartheid. She helped negotiate peace in Rwanda, because of the genocide between the Hutus and the Tutsis. Anyway, so she has all these years of work. And what she decided was that dignity was the root cause of a lot of it. And so, I have read her work, and now use this concept of human dignity as an analytical lens for the entirety of the sixth grade curriculum. So the tone all year is . . . you know, interpersonal dignity with each other. . . dignity within our. . . so that lens is really helpful because the concept of creating psychological distance between yourself and another is like kind of the first danger zone. Right? The first danger zone where you can let sort of dehumanization creep in. And so we are constantly analyzing the forces that lead to psychological distance. And those are sort of the lenses we use when we look at history. No matter what we're looking at. So, for example, you know, tribalism, what that is. understanding what that is - like a psychological idea and a reality. and how those psychological forces influence motivations for historical actions. if that makes sense.”

"Yeah. The idea. Sort of how we frame it to the kids is that there's sort of these like lenses. Like there are all these different lenses that we look through. And that for humans there are all these different lenses that we can put in front of our view that clouds us. Like, what makes the things on the other side fuzzy. And that's things, things like, labels and categories. Or of this concept of tribalism. Or, for example, getting them to analyze, like, status and rank. Like, what is rankism? How does this concept of status also create psychological distance? So, we kind of look at what are all of the lenses that cloud our ability to recognize like human dignity. So, what are the psychological and social obstacles that limit our ability to sort of see each other's full humanity?" (5/4/2017)

"And that is another time when we all did a lot of "I don't know." You, know? We did a lot of ‘I don't know-ing.’ There's an end to this unit, the whole thing sort of frames, through all these different models of participation. And we end this unit, talking about activism, and getting involved with promoting awareness, or assisting in some respect." (5/4/2017)

"The kids will get to choose what they want to focus on. So, it might not be, for example, educating girls. It might not be that. It might be hunger in Brooklyn. You know, but, that's the big question: what is good participation? If you're. . what is good pro-social activism. You know what does it mean to be an ally? You can be an ally for self-interest, but that's not going to get anything real done. Or, in might, but it's not necessarily going to land in certain communities in the same way." (5/4/2017)

"your intentions may be one thing, but what does it look like if you actually sit down and diagram the impact. And how do you take ownership of your privilege? Like, you really have to be aware of you privilege when you walk in to certain situations." (5/4/2017)

Veiling, Gender Norms, and Muslim Feminisms:

"Melinda: You did mention that one of your objectives is to see women as individuals with agency or to understand why they're not always seen that way, I guess. Umm would you mind just kind of expanding on that or maybe embarking on that.

Yeah! No, absolutely. So, if you mean just about gender when we're talking about Islam?

Melinda: Yes.

So, we - it's interesting because it gets complicated - particularly when the text that we've chosen and the current historical context around women. Ummn. however, I say, we start talking about it being a very pro-woman. . . very sort-of pro inclusion community. The sort-of founding tenants of Islam around. . you know, for example, the idea that it was essentially bankrolled - the religion was essentially allowed to flourish - because it was bankrolled by Khadija. You know, Muhammad's first wife. And, looking a lot of the tenants of his last sermon, and the focus on equality and partnership. And we talk a little bit about how the cultural shift of women in the community is more to sort-of - I don't want to blame - but the cultural ideologies are more the culprit of the current gender struggles, and not necessarily the religious beliefs. And we talk about the amalgamation of how that happened and how during . . through umayyad to Abbasid and onward, that it was a wealth, it was a status issue. Like wealthy women stayed inside. Yeah, and that was sort of a Persian culture and other cultural beliefs. When people were trying to make a . . trying to ascend certain social ladders that some of those cultural practices started to invade religious spaces. That's kind of the frame that we try to use. There's also a - there's a recent activist, whose work is really interesting. Her name is Alaa Murabit, and she is a Muslim female activist in Lebanon. Or. . .Libya. excuse me, Libya. And she has created a social media campaign that uses verses from the Qur'an to promote a pro-woman view of islam, and actually directly confront this concept that religion. . the idea that a lot of these extremists will argue that the separation of the sexes is based in the holy book, versus cultural belief." (5/4/2017)

"We start talking about it [Islam] being a very pro-woman. . . very sort-of pro inclusion community. The sort-of founding tenets of Islam around. . you know, for example, the idea that it was essentially bankrolled - the religion was essentially allowed to flourish - because it was bankrolled by Khadija. You know, Muhammad's first wife." (5/4/2017)

"There's a recent activist, who's work is really interesting. Her name is Alaa Murabit, and she is a Muslim female activist in Libya. She has created a social media campaign that uses verses from the Qur'an to promote a pro-woman view of Islam, and actually directly confronts this concept that religion. . the idea that a lot of these extremists will argue that the separation of the sexes is based in the holy book, versus cultural belief." (5/4/2017)

"You don't have to respect an individual - not a culture - an individual that you feel isn't treating women fairly. However, that doesn't mean that person has less dignity. . ." (5/4/2017)

"I am in dialogue with that myself how that connects to the white savior idea. The concept of whiteness as well as Westernness." (5/4/2017)

"[about guest speaker] he was a really interesting model for the kids because he kind of countered the director, who was saying, like, as white people, like, we need to be careful that we're not doing this. That we're not sort of forcing everyone to conform to our idea equality. Because in that sense we're also oppressing women. You know, if by - - denying or humiliating their cultural identity. And this young man Kesar was a really interesting kind of counterpoint to that. Because he talked about, to him, as a Pakistani man, what it felt like to try to teach about girls education versus what he sees in mainstream media." (5/4/2017)

"We talked about the way narratives around women in Islam impact our view of them as individuals with agency." Survey response (3/16/2017)

The Dominance of Eurocentric and American-centric Perspectives:

"That's something that teachers need to be given more training on, and sort of, help with, and resources for - it's like how do you bring in the actual voices of the people you're discussing. I am very conscious constantly as a white American non-religious women that I have to put the flag up and tell the kids, "I don't know. Let's find an answer from someone in that community" (5/4/2017)

White Complicity Counter Measures:

"I try as often as I can to find the voices of Muslim . .and men and women. . to . . really bring into the classroom. Because as a white sort of non-religious American woman my full understanding of that is limited." (5/4/2017)

"As a white American. Who is identifies as agnostic or aetheist, I mean I don't. As someone who has a cultural sensitivity who has no cultural affiliation yeah there are definitely times when I want to be careful about acknowledging what I don't know, or that my historical lens is coming from just that, right? A historical lens." (5/4/2017)

"I am a white American teacher speaking about Islam. I will have limitations here that I may not be aware of. I will have my own blinders. That I am not fully acknowledging." (5/4/2017)

"I constantly remind kids that we don't have that many Muslim students. For example, we don't have any students who cover their hair. We also coming from a very limited perspectives, and this is not a place to make sweeping generalizations. Where we're located in Brooklyn, we happen to be close to an area where there are a lot of mosques, and where there is a relatively dense Islamic community. So we have been able to do things like reach out to Muslim Imam's and ask them to come and talk to the kids and share their perspectives." (5/4/2017)

Countering Student Resistance:

"Yeah, so the theme of our current - the unit I'm on - for 6th grade, is on Islam. and early Islamic history. We look at Pakistan as a case study. The whole, the guiding questions for the whole unit is "What is Islamophobia?" And that's kind of a guide as we look at Islamic history. and the challenge has been - we started the unit in January and it's been - or the idea of Islamophobia or Muslim identity has been in the mainstream media, in some facet, almost every day. In regard to the travel ban. The executive order that a variety of countries. So since then it's really been kind of a need or a desire to respond to what the kids bring in each day. Cause what the kids bring in each day. I mean we're you know the school's located in [Major U.S. city], and umm we have a relatively, kind-of hyper literate student body and they are very well-versed in current affairs - not to say that other kids are not - - in my experience, our kids pay more attention to the news than I have ever had middle schoolers pay attention to the news. And. you know, sometimes, they come in each day, with an article that I had - they come in with articles I haven't even seen yet. Wanting to talk about it and dissect it." (5/4/2017)

"I think the challenge is for right now I think, for me I think one of the big challenges is trying to get people other than. . or help the students be ambassadors of this knowledge. Sort of charge the students with like, "Hey. You have an obligation to also dismantle Islamophobia where you see it. Because now you are equipped with information." (5/4/2017)

“Melinda: I find it really interesting that - instead of sort of generalizing out empathy - you have this really intellectual way into that. Because a lot of teachers feel very passionate about empathy, and I feel like they get burnt out. I mean just from what I have observed.

Right.

Teaching teachers. And, it becomes this kind of difficult work because you're trying to get people to feel something.

Right.

And I find it very interesting to have an intellectual entry point and you're talking about sort- of what are the forces tied to psychological

Yeah. I just shared a doc with you on Google drive. That's kind of, sort of, lays out what kind of words we use.

Right.

Yeah. The idea. Sort of how we frame it to the kids is that there's sort of these like lenses. Like there are all these different lenses that we look through. And that for humans there are all these different lenses that we can put in front of our view that clouds us. Like, what makes the things on the other side fuzzy. And that's things, things like, labels and categories. Or of this concept of tribalism. Or, for example, getting them to analyze, like, status and rank. Like, what is rankism? How does this concept of status also create psychological distance? So, we kind of look at what are all of the lenses that cloud our ability to recognize like human dignity. So, what are the psychological and social obstacles that limit our ability to sort of see each other's full humanity?

Umm Hmmn..

And that is really helpful because this intellectual lens is actually really, really helpful. I think, when you're talking about it in terms of empathy and tolerance. I think, like, I agree with you - like, this - you can burn out when you're just like trying to, you know, get kids to care. If that makes sense?

Yeah. Exactly.

And, the concept that we really come from - that I come from, as a teacher, is that we need to name the behavior. Right? So, if you name the behavior - because particularly when you're middle school age, right? - there is so much happening. Right? There's so much happening intellectually and from a neuropsychology standpoint. And a social emotional standpoint, and all these things. We. I think it's like really, in my opinion, I think middle school is the prime time to teach that. But I agree.. .

Oh, I agree. I love middle school.

Intellectually a language of abject kindness doesn't actually do anything.

OK

In my opinion they are too psychologically involved in their own identity development. And while they are both incredibly open to the experiences of others, abject kindness as an idea doesn't strike the same chord as, for example, like naming the force that's limiting their ability to see another person. I think it also depersonalizes empathy into a skill. I think what's hard - particularly when you're working with such an emotionally vulnerable segment of the population - is that like what - when you talk to a kids about kindness, if there is a mistake - it means in their sort-of brain - that they're unkind.

Right.

Right? And it becomes . . . I think having a common vocabulary to intellectualize their behavior actually allows them to depersonalize it and see it, kind of through a growth mindset. If that makes sense? So, for example, when a kid's struggling in class, I name the behavior - I am like "Yo! Self-regulation is a skill, and like right now like, you are not exercizing your, you're not practicing."

Yeah.

"Like, you are rolling around on the ground like a dufus." I'm like "you are a wonderful human being but like you need to get it together." They joke. Like there's some tag lines that you have as a teacher and self-regulation is a skill and you need to practice it. It's like the one they'll parrot back to me as sort of a joke. But I think it really works. And particularly when you give. . .it's interesting because I frequently will get push-back from other educators about sort of like, oh this is too much for six grade. and you know the funny thing is by the end of the year you tend to have these little freaky baby geniuses who are still vulnerable, right? Who are still learning. And who are still going to make mistakes with friendships, or with all kinds of things. With having five feet. . .you know, they're not perfect, but when kids have a language with which to de-personalize some of this stuff, it can make - I think it just makes everything more successful.” (5/4/2017)

“Melinda: So, some of your colleagues push back in terms of like, ‘this is too sophisticated?’

Yeah. I've gotten that. And I think that if you don't - yeah, I've had that. I've had people push back around that. And also you know I think people tend. . .like, for example, like one of the big things we use is to teach the kids about the role that values play in community and identity development, right? So, we're not. That - the funny part - where I think some people who are on the outside of the curriculum and don't understand it will think oh but you're teaching what your values are. You know what I mean? I think they're a little worried about proselytization. You're like "No. I am just telling them. . .like, hey. Here's a bunch of different values, right?" Like so I keep them up on a wall in my room. And people will be like. You know, to not understand it as an analytic lens. They look at it as a moral lens. So for example the difference is. Like teaching kids a value conflict is quite often the root of misunderstanding and miscommunication. So, for example, like what we were looking at today in Malala is like Malala and the Taliban both very much value the religion. They both deeply admire the value of the religion, but they're thinking about it differently. Their perception - their individual perception of that value is what is causing this conflict. Or, a lot of this conflict. And sort of teaching them to look at things through a value lens. Like, so that's one of the things I would say that. Like, that's an example, a concrete example of times where I think: from the outside some colleagues have been a little bit like, well, aren't you? You know, if you - it's just a challenge that any teacher faces where if someone doesn't sit in your class, and walk through your curriculum, it's easy to. . . " (5/4/2017)

"this intellectual lens is actually really, really helpful. I think, when you're talking about it in terms of empathy and tolerance. I think, like, I agree with you - like, this - you can burn out when you're just like trying to, you know, get kids to care." (5/4/2017)