1 IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE STATE OF OREGON
2 FOR MULTNOMAH COUNTY
3
4 DA Case Number: 2385054
5 Grand Jury Proceedings
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
1 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 WITNESS INDEX
2 Witness Name Pages
3 Officer James Dewey ...... 3-52
4 Detective Rico Beniga ...... 52-101
5 Jeremy Wilkinson ...... 101-128
6 Ryan Pratt ...... 128-145
7 Donald Dietz ...... 145-164
8 Tyler Koenig ...... 164-171
9 Clyde Barnett ...... 171-184
10 Sean Malikowski ...... 184-199
11 Derrial Peterson ...... 199-206
12 Bradley Clark ...... 206-211
13 Darrell Shaw ...... 212-215
14 Officer Anthony Eugenio ...... 215-231
15 Mohamed Tuffa ...... 231-252
16 Zachary Walker ...... 253-276
17 Keyaira Smith ...... 277-306
18 Rebecca Millius ...... 306-316
19 Patrick Dean ...... 316-332
20 Sergeant Joseph Schilling ...... 332-359
21 Scott Willadsen ...... 359-389
22 Shawn McKenzie ...... 389-415
23
24
25
26
27
28 2 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: ‘Kay. We are on the record in uh the matter that we’ve entitled death
2 investigation. It's District Attorney No. 238505, sorry, 2385054, its
3 Dash 1 and 2 with Grand Jury 3, Case No. 35. My name is Brian
4 Davidson. The last name is spelled D-A-V-I-D-S-O-N and the state
5 will now call its first witness and that is uh Officer James Dewey.
6 Other Speaker: Great.
7 Brian Davidson: Ya go and stand next to that black chair, raise your right hand and
8 they will swear you in.
9 Other Speaker: Do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you are about to
10 give in the matter pending before this Grand Jury shall be the truth,
11 the whole truth and nothing but the truth?
12 Officer James Dewey: I do.
13 Brian Davidson: Go ahead and have a seat please. And if you would speak and spell
14 your full name for us.
15 Officer James Dewey: Uh, first name James, J-A-M-E-S, last name Dewey, D-E-W-E-Y.
16 Brian Davidson: And can you tell the Grand Jury how you're employed.
17 Officer James Dewey: I'm a police officer. I work for Portland State University.
18 Brian Davidson: And, uh get a little bit more into your employment here –
19 Officer James Dewey: Sure.
20 Brian Davidson: – in a moment but um. Where are you from originally?
21 Officer James Dewey: I'm from Portland, grew up in the southwest.
22 Brian Davidson: And did you go to high school here?
23 Officer James Dewey: Wilson.
24 Brian Davidson: Wilson.
25 Officer James Dewey: Yeah.
26 Brian Davidson: And uh how old are you?
27 Officer James Dewey: 33.
3 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: Great, and uh, you graduated from Wilson?
2 Officer James Dewey: I did.
3 Brian Davidson: Did you seek additional education after high school?
4 Officer James Dewey: Uh yeah, I went to, actually I went overseas. I lived in New Zealand
5 for uh 4 1/2 years, studied economics. Um, came back after that.
6 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. Uh, did you obtain a degree from any place?
7 Officer James Dewey: Um, I, so I didn't finish in New Zealand, um 'cause it doesn't
8 transfer over to the United States so I'm currently taking classes at
9 Portland State, to get the equivalency –
10 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
11 Officer James Dewey: – of a Bachelor's.
12 Brian Davidson: In?
13 Officer James Dewey: Um, it'll probably be in public administration, or economics.
14 Brian Davidson: And so, but your focus is primarily, was primarily economics?
15 Officer James Dewey: Yeah.
16 Brian Davidson: And um it's my understanding that you, you have a military
17 background as well?
18 Officer James Dewey: Yeah, uh 7, 7 years, um army national guard, one deployment to
19 Afghanistan.
20 Brian Davidson: And uh, did you see combat while you were there?
21 Officer James Dewey: Um, it was a combat deployment um so there, our, our compound
22 was attacked once. Um, there was a couple of uh roadside bombings
23 but I wasn't directly involved with anything.
24 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. All right. Uh, and are you still a reservist?
25 Officer James Dewey: No, I'm out.
26 Brian Davidson: And so when did your service end?
27 Officer James Dewey: May of, uh, this year actually, so recently.
4 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. And did you attain a particular rank?
2 Officer James Dewey: Uh, specialist E4.
3 Brian Davidson: All right. And so um, have you held other employment other than
4 with Portland State Police Department?
5 Officer James Dewey: Yes. So prior to Portland State, I was a reserve police officer which
6 is a fancy way of stating um volunteer police officer for Beaverton
7 Police and I worked with them for uh 2 or 3 years but I was deployed
8 for one of those years so.
9 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
10 Officer James Dewey: Felt shorter.
11 Brian Davidson: And, and prior to that employment were you required to go to what
12 the academy?
13 Officer James Dewey: Um, so for the Beaverton Police, we did an in, an in-house, I think it
14 was 200 and some hours um reserve academy and for my current
15 position, I went to the f- ah, regular police academy which is in
16 Salem.
17 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. So you were a reservist with Beaverton PD for 2 years –
18 Officer James Dewey: Yes.
19 Brian Davidson: – one of which you were deployed?
20 Officer James Dewey: Yeah.
21 Brian Davidson: Uh, and then uh, what about after that?
22 Officer James Dewey: Um, so I, um, you can't be a police officer for two places at once so I
23 resigned from Beaverton to take the job here at Portland State, um
24 yeah ****.
25 Brian Davidson: And when you came to Portland State um, my understanding is that
26 uh Portland State's police force has only recently been an armed
27 police force.
5 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Officer James Dewey: Yeah.
2 Brian Davidson: And prior to that um, it was unarmed campus security?
3 Officer James Dewey: Correct.
4 Brian Davidson: So when you came to work for Portland State, was it as an unarmed
5 campus security officer?
6 Officer James Dewey: Yeah. So that was, so I was, uh, campus public safety officer
7 concurrently with, uh, the Beaverton job and then when we went to
8 the police side, I left Beaverton and came on as a police officer for
9 Portland State.
10 Brian Davidson: And so how long have you worked in any capacity at Portland State?
11 Officer James Dewey: I'm coming up on 5 years I think in January.
12 Brian Davidson: And how many years of that was as an unarmed uh security officer?
13 Officer James Dewey: uh, um, 2 1/2 or 3.
14 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
15 Officer James Dewey: 'Bout half.
16 Brian Davidson: And so how long have you been a, ah, sworn armed police officer for
17 Portland State since when?
18 Officer James Dewey: Ah, since last January before last, so coming up on two years for
19 that.
20 Brian Davidson: Now did you have to go to any additional um trainings or academies
21 to be a unarmed campus security officer for Portland State?
22 Officer James Dewey: Uh, that was in-house as well. Um, so you kind of run through the,
23 sort of the, street training program there where you learn the law and
24 um procedural stuff, uh, but nothing uh state sponsored.
25 Brian Davidson: Okay. So when you switched, when PSU switched from unarmed
26 campus security to an armed sworn police force –
27 Officer James Dewey: Yeah.
6 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: –Uh, did you have to attend more academy at that point?
2 Officer James Dewey: Yes some. So once that was, so once I made that jump from public
3 safety to police, um, they send you down to the same, I think 600
4 and some hour, uh, 4-month academy, um, that all police officers in
5 Oregon attend.
6 Brian Davidson: And where's that at?
7 Officer James Dewey: Salem.
8 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. And you're there for four months solid?
9 Officer James Dewey: Uh, yes, yeah.
10 Brian Davidson: And, uh, you completed that successfully?
11 Officer James Dewey: I did.
12 Brian Davidson: And, uh, once you completed that and returned to PSU, was there
13 additional training, or ah, was you on probationary status? How does
14 that work?
15 Officer James Dewey: Um, so once you, um, well, baby cops come back out of the
16 academy, um, and they have to go through with the, what's called the
17 FTAB field training, um, program where they assign you to a coach,
18 uh, various coaches actually, um, for more experienced officers do
19 ride around, um, you take on gradually higher levels of responsibility
20 until you're finally on your own. Um, that process takes 18 months
21 typically. Um, I completed that, um, in, it was early summer of this
22 year.
23 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. All right. And uh the more experienced officers that you
24 rode around with during this training period, you mean like, how
25 much experience did they have?
26 Officer James Dewey: Uh, so a few of them are more veteran, um, Portland's Police Bureau
27 officers, um, so, and some were, um, officers just from our, um,
7 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 agency, so ranging in experience from 4 years as a police officer to
2 20 something years.
3 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. When you mentioned them, them being Portland police
4 officer, I guess were you tryin' to say they were retired Portland
5 police officers?
6 Officer James Dewey: Correct, yeah, retired Portland police officers and they moved over
7 to Portland State, I guess we have separate retirement systems so.
8 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. Maybe I didn’t, this would be a good time to kind of
9 explain what the relationship is, if anything, between Portland State
10 University Police and um Portland Police Bureau Police?
11 Officer James Dewey: Sure. I'll, I'll do my best. Um, so –
12 Brian Davidson: Are they the same organization I guess is what I'm saying?
13 Officer James Dewey: No. So Portland Police and Portland State Police are totally separate
14 entities, uh, that work together and often overlapping in
15 responsibility and area of operation.
16 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. Okay. But completely different organization command
17 structure?
18 Officer James Dewey: Correct, yeah, so none of the, no boss of a Portland police officer
19 would be my boss and vice versa.
20 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. Okay. Um, so you completed the academy, then
21 completed the training program –
22 Officer James Dewey: Mm hmm.
23 Brian Davidson: – here with Portland States successfully, and –
24 Officer James Dewey: Yeah, yeah.
25 Brian Davidson: Uh, so my understanding is that you’ve also, you also function I
26 guess in some regard as an adjunct firearms instructor with uh, the
27 police academy?
8 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Officer James Dewey: Yeah, um, so I think, I guess just given my, um, background in the
2 military and sort of interests, um, they assigned me as a firearms
3 instructor for our, um, agency. Um, I also volunteered as a firearms
4 instructor and was accepted as an instructor at the state academy
5 where I work as an adjunct, um, firearms instructor. Uh, I was going
6 down twice a month to teach for a day. Um, I'm also a first aid and
7 tactical medicine instructor for our department.
8 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. Okay. Um, and uh, let's uh, let’s transition to uh the event
9 that we're, uh, here to talk about. Um, at the time this occurred,
10 which is late night of the 28th of June of this year transitioning into
11 the early morning I think of the 29th –
12 Officer James Dewey: Yeah.
13 Brian Davidson: –Ah, of this year, um, were you ah, were you working as a police
14 officer at that time?
15 Officer James Dewey: I was.
16 Brian Davidson: And what was your duty assignment? How is PSU’s kind of um,
17 duty assignment structured and what was your assignment?
18 Officer James Dewey: Uh, so my partner, Shawn and I, we both work the graveyard shift.
19 Brian Davidson: And Shawn is?
20 Officer James Dewey: Sorry, Shawn McKenzie, um, I guess you haven't talked to him yet.
21 Um –
22 Brian Davidson: Fellow officer.
23 Officer James Dewey: Fellow officer. Um, same rank, we're both patrol officers. Um, we
24 were working together that night, um, by ourselves. We don't have
25 supervisors on at night so –
26 Brian Davidson: 'Kay.
27 Officer James Dewey: – it's just the two of us for Portland State. And –
9 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: And had you been working nightshift?
2 Officer James Dewey: Yeah, pretty much my whole time back from the academy.
3 Brian Davidson: And what is nightshift, what are the hours?
4 Officer James Dewey: Um, on our 12-hour shifts it's 7 to 7.
5 Brian Davidson: So 7 p.m. to 7 a.m.
6 Officer James Dewey: Yeah.
7 Brian Davidson: All right.
8 Officer James Dewey: Yeah.
9 Brian Davidson: So you actually came on shift on June 28th at 7 p.m.?
10 Officer James Dewey: Correct.
11 Brian Davidson: And, um, do you work uh, two-man cars, Is that how it works –
12 Officer James Dewey: Um, excuse me, I'm, can't remember if we're on 10s or 12s that
13 night. It, it might've been working from 9 to 7. But it would be either
14 9 and 7 or 7 and 7.
15 Brian Davidson: Got it.
16 Officer James Dewey: Yeah. Um, and yes, we typically work, um, two to a car, um, uh,
17 this, prior to the shooting, um, I was eating lunch in the office and
18 Shawn was just kinda rolling around, uh, by himself in the car.
19 Brian Davidson: So you're on your lunch break?
20 Officer James Dewey: Yeah.
21 Brian Davidson: And where's, where’s the offices at?
22 Officer James Dewey: Um, so it's at s, um, 633 Southwest Montgomery so right at the
23 intersection of Montgomery and Broadway.
24 Brian Davidson: Is that a, it's an office dedicated to PSU Police Department?
25 Officer James Dewey: Correct, yeah, it's the public safety building.
10 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: Yeah, and I'm assuming it's common knowledge but if can you tell
2 us a little bit about kinda where PSU is situated within the Portland
3 downtown area?
4 Officer James Dewey: Sure. Um, it's directly south of here so it's in the southwest corner of
5 southwest Portland. Um, it kinda runs up to like, I405, kind of
6 delineates the border of it and then runs up to about Market and
7 down to about 4th Avenue but we also have properties that kind of
8 outlie a little bit so our patrol area, every once in a while goes
9 outside that border but typically it's just in that sort of quadrant of
10 southwest downtown Portland.
11 Brian Davidson: And at night, um, is it typically just one car operating?
12 Officer James Dewey: Yes. Um, so, uh, we're pretty understaffed so at most we'll have two
13 officers on, sometimes three. If you have two officers, it's just safer
14 to have both in one car as opposed to two separate cars.
15 Brian Davidson: Okay. Uh, so you mentioned you come on shift either at 7 or, or 9 on
16 the 28th.
17 Officer James Dewey: Yeah.
18 Brian Davidson: One of the two. And um, had there been anything unusual about the
19 shift up to the point where you got involved in this call?
20 Officer James Dewey: Um, we, um, we did chase one guy, we didn't catch him, uh, earlier
21 in the night. Um, he was trespassing and had a stolen bike, um, but
22 nothing else, um, unusual. And that was–
23 Brian Davidson: Okay.
24 Officer James Dewey: – a foot pursuit.
25 Brian Davidson: Uh, and uh, at the time this occurred, were you under the influence
26 of uh alcohol?
27 Officer James Dewey: No.
11 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: Uh, or any drugs?
2 Officer James Dewey: No, just caffeine.
3 Brian Davidson: Okay. All right, um, why don't you just, just walk us through. You
4 said that um, you were back at the station eating lunch –
5 Officer James Dewey: Yeah.
6 Brian Davidson: – having lunch but it would have been in the middle of the night.
7 Officer James Dewey: Right, yeah, right.
8 Brian Davidson: Um, and, uh, Officer McKenzie was patrolling while you were doing
9 that.
10 Officer James Dewey: Correct.
11 Brian Davidson: Um, why don't you just walk us through kind of what you recall
12 about what happened.
13 Officer James Dewey: Sure. Um, and I apologize. I usually have reports and, so I, I can def,
14 refer to like names and dates and times and stuff. But in broad
15 strokes, um, I was eating lunch at the office. Um, actually just junk
16 food from Plaid Pantry and, um, we get a call which is a super
17 common call, unwanted person, which means someone who
18 shouldn't be there and has been asked to leave, in a apartment
19 building, which is owned by the University. Um, the apartment
20 building is University Point which is located at, uh, Southwest 6th
21 and Southwest College. Um, so –
22 Brian Davidson: How'd you receive that call?
23 Officer James Dewey: Over the radio, from, uh, from our, uh, dispatch which is also
24 separate from Portland's dispatch.
25 Brian Davidson: And you were not with Officer uh, McKenzie at that point?
26 Officer James Dewey: Correct. We both heard it in our ear pieces at the same time. Um, and
27 just sort of out of safety, Shawn says I'm gonna, I'll swing by the
12 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 office and pick you up. I said yep. Um, finished whatever I was
2 doing, um, put my food down, walk outside to meet him. Uh, he
3 drove up Southwest Broadway so south on Southwest Broadway and
4 picked me up just outside our office to proceed on to the call.
5 Brian Davidson: And, uh, how were you dressed uh, for work that day?
6 Officer James Dewey: Uh, patrol uniform, so, um, cop outfit, um, external body armor, um,
7 a bunch of equipment on the body armor, belts, gun, taser on a drop
8 holster on my left leg, um, dark pants, uh, I forget which shirt I was
9 wearing but,it was either blue or dark colored.
10 Brian Davidson: Mm. And uh, is uh, the word “police” emblazed on it somewhere?
11 Officer James Dewey: Yes, police big in the back, on the front and a big badge.
12 Brian Davidson: Okay. And uh, was Officer McKenzie dressed similarly?
13 Officer James Dewey: Yeah, exactly the same.
14 Brian Davidson: And uh, what kind of vehicle were you operating?
15 Officer James Dewey: Uh, marked patrol car. It's our SUV so it's a, I think it's a modified
16 Explorer. Um, big police letters on the side. Um, looks a little
17 different than Portland's cars 'cause we're a different agency, uh, so
18 it's got a big green stripe instead of the blue. Um, but lights and
19 sirens, all that.
20 Brian Davidson: Are you sure it was an Explorer?
21 Officer James Dewey: Uh, actually no, I think it was a Crown Vic –
22 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
23 Officer James Dewey: – and I think the Explorer was in the shop.
24 Brian Davidson: Okay.
25 Officer James Dewey: Yeah.
26 Brian Davidson: And when you say Crown Vic, what do you mean?
27 Officer James Dewey: Um, so think of a taxi or an old police car, um, yeah.
13 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: It's emblazoned with your –
2 Officer James Dewey: Yeah, same thing.
3 Brian Davidson: – your logo on the side.
4 Officer James Dewey: Yeah.
5 Brian Davidson: All right. So you said that um, Officer McKenzie swung by to pick
6 you up.
7 Officer James Dewey: Correct, yeah.
8 Brian Davidson: All right.
9 Officer James Dewey: So he came from wherever he was on campus, um, and we
10 proceeded together.
11 Brian Davidson: Is that a pretty typical call, unwanted person in one building?
12 Officer James Dewey: Super typical.
13 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
14 Officer James Dewey: Yeah.
15 Brian Davidson: Okay. All right, well walk us through what occurred next.
16 Officer James Dewey: Um, so we're coming up on, I don't know if you have, use my hands
17 for the map, I guess.
18 Brian Davidson: Do you want a, yeah, I can get you, uh, something.
19 Officer James Dewey: Yeah, that's right. Yeah, that works actually.
20 Brian Davidson: Let me, uh, let me uh, go to this and then, um, I can, um, this is
21 actually still, let me get you an interactive map –
22 Officer James Dewey: Sure.
23 Brian Davidson: – for – so I'll actually give you the mouse if you wanna –
24 Officer James Dewey: Sure.
25 Brian Davidson: – try this and you just kind of, uh, walk through –
26 Officer James Dewey: Yeah. Just use the mouse as like a pointer?
14 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: Uh, you can also drag to expand. It works just like a regular, just, it's
2 actually, uh, Google maps so –
3 Officer James Dewey: Cool. Um, so –
4 Brian Davidson: Can you start out with where you were when you got picked up.
5 Officer James Dewey: Sure. Um, too far. So our office is right over here. This building
6 here, this little cluster, looks like three buildings but it's one. Um, so
7 our front door is here. Can you guys see the mouse okay?
8 Other Speaker: Yeah
9 Other Speaker: Yep.
10 Officer James Dewey: So I came out the front door here, walked up to Southwest Broadway
11 and which is kinda the main corridor running through campus. Um, I
12 believe Shawn was driving south on Broadway which is the only
13 way you can drive on Broadway, um, and picked me up at this
14 intersection here, sort of on the corner and we proceeded south. Um,
15 our destination, um, which is where the call had originated is this
16 building here, um, which is called University Point. That's a huge
17 apartment building. Um, it's technically private but we have a ton of
18 students in it. Um, so we drove south on Broadway and the normal
19 route would've been to take a left on Southwest College and just park
20 right here and go inside and deal with whatever's goin' on.
21 Brian Davidson: Okay. So you're in route, uh, to that call.
22 Officer James Dewey: Correct.
23 Brian Davidson: And that's, I guess, when you observed something else going on.
24 Officer James Dewey: Yeah. Um, let me see **** in here. So as we're going south on
25 Broadway, uh – is this College, yeah – so Shawn woulda been in the,
26 probably the left-hand lane 'cause you have to take a left here.
27 Brian Davidson: And uh, he was driving, you were passenger?
15 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Officer James Dewey: Correct, yes, um, my partner was driving, I was the passenger. Um,
2 driving south on Broadway, we're gonna take this left onto
3 Southwest College and go park down here somewhere. Um, so right
4 about here, like before we take this turn, um, I typically ride with my
5 window down so I can hear what's going on. Um, Shawn typically
6 has his up, I guess to hear the radio better. Um, we're taking this turn
7 and I hear, um, fighting, like it gets very distinct, um, it's hard to
8 describe like, I'm sure you guys have heard a fight, uh, but it
9 sounded like multiple males, um, it's 1:30 in the morning so you're
10 not used to hearing yelling and shouting, um –
11 Brian Davidson: And this would've been Thursday evening into Friday morning or is
12 it –
13 Officer James Dewey: Yeah.
14 Brian Davidson: – am I right?
15 Officer James Dewey: Yeah. So right at, we call, um, it's not a great time, it's right when the
16 bars will be getting out. Um, so there's almost no activity on the
17 street, but if there is activity, it's typically originated from a bar, um,
18 and there is a bar, the Cheerful Tortoise right here, uh, which we
19 have, uh, we've had extensive interactions with. Um, so I hear –
20 Brian Davidson: State's had some interactions, what do you mean?
21 Officer James Dewey: Uh, we get calls there all the time, um –
22 Brian Davidson: Disturbances? Fights?
23 Officer James Dewey: Disturbances, fights, yeah.
24 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
25 Officer James Dewey: Um, so 1:30 in the morning I hear very distinct fighting. Um, and not
26 like a one-on-one fight. It sounded like a bunch of people and I could
27 hear that from back here, um, in a moving car. Um, I kind of, I can
16 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 see somethin' goin' on here. As we're taking the turn, um, I indicate
2 to my partner that there's a fight somewhere, um, and then as we're
3 taking the turn, I can see, you can go in a little bit more here, so this
4 is good. The car's parked here. There are also cars parked there that
5 night. So it kind of obscured my view a little bit. The fight was
6 taking place right around here. Um, so as we're tur, taking this turn,
7 um, the cars are obstructing my view a little bit and I can't quite see
8 what's goin' on. Um, so we take the turn. I indicate to Shawn that I
9 could see somethin' goin' on here, um, that's probably the location of
10 the fight. Um, so I have Shawn, and this is something we've done a
11 buncha times, uh, just kinda slow to a stop in the street so I can, um,
12 get out of the car here and sorta get a direct shot on what's goin' on
13 so I can see what's, what's happening, uh, while he goes and parks
14 and can come in from a different angle to see, see more essentially,
15 so we're not both coming from the same direction or parking in the
16 middle of the street. So, um, I’ve told Shawn that there's a fight
17 going on. Uh, I told him to let me out. Um, I believe he got on the
18 radio and said that we're, um, it's called diverting from the call we
19 were currently on, 'cause we went to, we're supposed to be going to a
20 unwanted person, which is a much lower priority than an active fist
21 fight on the street. So we're diverting to something else that we've
22 come up on. Um, I think Shawn gave our location.
23 Brian Davidson: Was your ah, partner basically handling the radio responsibilities?
24 Officer James Dewey: Correct.
25 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
26 Officer James Dewey: Yeah. Um, so I get outta the car. I, I believe it's about here. Um, and
27 I walk essentially directly between two cars, would've been about
17 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 here. Um, oh, and so as I'm, as I'm getting out, I can see that this is a
2 fight. Its eight to ten people involved, um, all sort of college 20-
3 something age males, as far as I can tell. Um, so as soon as I step out
4 of the car, I scream, sort of as loudly as I can, uh, police, stop or stop
5 police, um –
6 Brian Davidson: Before you continue officer um, and again you were getting to it but
7 I want to make sure we don’t miss out on it um, Portland State
8 University patrol officers wear, what we colloquially referr to as
9 body-worn cameras, is that right?
10 Officer James Dewey: Correct, correct.
11 Brian Davidson: Um, can you tell us a little bit about what those are, how they
12 function and if you were wearing one that evening.
13 Officer James Dewey: Sure. Um, so all officers in our department wear body cameras. Um,
14 and they're pretty cool. They actually, they essentially run all the
15 time. Um, but in order to activate them you double tap the, the big
16 button on the front. It'll then backtrack 30 seconds so like say you,
17 you run into a pole or something, you say shoot, tap the body
18 camera. It'll go back to the 30 seconds before you hit the pole and
19 show you kinda what happened. So just sort of for accountability
20 sake, so I believe as I stepped out of the car, I tapped the camera. It
21 might've been a little prior. Um, and we're trained to have it on for
22 every police interaction we have. Um, once you tap it, it starts
23 recording sound as well. So is that –
24 Brian Davidson: Yes. Thank you. And –
25 Officer James Dewey: –Cover it pretty well?
26 Brian Davidson: – you were wearing one that evening?
27 Officer James Dewey: I was, as was Shawn.
18 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: Was your partner?
2 Officer James Dewey: Yes.
3 Brian Davidson: Uh, and at some point you think, when do you think you double
4 tapped the button?
5 Officer James Dewey: Um, probably as I was getting out of the car.
6 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
7 Officer James Dewey: Um, we're trained to do it before we start doing anything police
8 related so hopefully I did it about then.
9 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. And can you maybe describe, physically what the unit
10 looks like, where –
11 Officer James Dewey: Sure.
12 Brian Davidson: –it fits on your uniform?
13 Officer James Dewey: Um, it's about this big, it sits right about here, here on my chest, so it
14 can essentially see what I'm, what my torso's pointed at.
15 Brian Davidson: All right, all right. So, uh, interrupted you, you were about to
16 describe what happened as you stepped out of the vehicle.
17 Officer James Dewey: Sure, yeah. So I yelled, um, as loud as I could, police –
18 Brian Davidson: And, uh, if you –
19 Officer James Dewey: – stop.
20 Brian Davidson: – you, you obviously, you, you know, with, you can actually do this,
21 if you wanna grab the little, uh, anytime, it's simple.
22 Officer James Dewey: Oh yeah.
23 Brian Davidson: You grab –
24 Other Speaker: Yeah.
25 Brian Davidson: – the little guy, drop him in there and we've got a street view if that's
26 more helpful.
19 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Officer James Dewey: Uh, yeah, hopefully, yeah. Um, so took a, came around this corner. I
2 had Shawn kinda slow to a stop about here where I, ah, maybe it was
3 a little further up, 'bout here. Um, at the time, there were more cars
4 parked on this road. Um, I could see the fight going on, um, kind of
5 moving this way. Um, it was chaotic and kinda ugly. Uh, lots of
6 yelling. It's, I don't know if you seen –
7 Brian Davidson: Can you make out any of what was what being said?
8 Officer James Dewey: No, no. I don't know if you seen like big drunk bar fights before but
9 like nothing really makes sense. Um, you wanna kind of try to find,
10 my priority was seeing if it was like nine pre, people beating up one
11 person or five people beat, beating up five people. Um, to see if
12 anybody needed immediate help. Um, so in order to do that, I got as
13 close as I could and still be safe. Um, so like, I walked up onto the
14 curb and sort of tried to start assessing what was going on. After I'd
15 yelled stop police.
16 Brian Davidson: So you, you actually verbally identified yourself as a police officer?
17 Officer James Dewey: Yeah, first thing.
18 Brian Davidson: In a quiet voice, a loud voice?
19 Officer James Dewey: As loud as I could.
20 Brian Davidson: Okay. Uh, and again, what was the number of folks that were,
21 seemed to be engaged in this maylay?
22 Officer James Dewey: It felt like a lot. Um, I think I s-, I think it, I said it felt like 12. Um,
23 might have been a little less but it was more than 6, less than 15. So
24 it was a good group of men.
25 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
26 Officer James Dewey: Um, no women, all, I though, I think they're all in their 20s early
27 30s.
20 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. Okay.
2 Officer James Dewey: Um, and it seemed like the fight had sort of a general direction of
3 travel, uh, from here moving this way which would sort of, which
4 sort of confirmed my suspicion that they came from this bar right
5 here. It's the only bar around that stays open that late. Um, and this
6 had every feeling to me like it was a big drunk bar fight.
7 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. And you've responded to those kinds of calls?
8 Officer James Dewey: Yeah, absolutely. I, and I worked as a bartender in college like I'm,
9 I'm well versed.
10 Brian Davidson: Okay.
11 Officer James Dewey: Um, so I stepped out, um, identified myself as a police officer as
12 loudly as I could and I walked onto the sidewalk. Um, I was aware
13 that my partner had continued driving, um, to find a place to pull in.
14 I, I think he parked in, let's see, um, either this little inlet or this, this
15 one here.
16 Brian Davidson: In the building to the immediate uh, I guess that would be south –
17 Officer James Dewey: This one?
18 Brian Davidson: – of the Chipotle is in, is that a, is that a PSU building?
19 Officer James Dewey: Yeah. So this is the Broadway Housing Building. It's the largest
20 student housing building on campus, um, hundreds of students live
21 there. Um, and hundreds more live in University Point which is right
22 here. Uh, so I get out, identify myself as a police officer, I'm
23 stepping up on the curb. I'm kind of aware that my partner is
24 continuing on and pulling into one of these lots here. Um, also
25 immediately after I got into this, as I start assessing what's going on
26 seeing if I can identify a victim or a, like a bad guy, just like one
27 person who's starting the fight, um, someone comes up on my left
21 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 and says this guy has a gun, um, this guy pulled a gun on us earlier,
2 um, and he, I remember who said it to me. I don't think I looked back
3 at him, um, but he pointed out, uh, the, the subject. Um, and I
4 apologize, we haven't had names or anything, um –
5 Brian Davidson: Individual you ended up using your firearm against?
6 Officer James Dewey: Correct. Um, so he, he pointed out to me right away. I was just
7 standing about, gosh, here. Guy comes up on my left, points a guy
8 out and says this guy pulled a gun on us earlier. Um, points him out
9 to me and immediately I see on his right hip, a black, it looked like a
10 semi-automatic firearm, um, in a holster of some kind, um, which is,
11 uh, shocking to say the least in downtown Portland. Um –
12 Brian Davidson: To see someone openly carrying a firearm like that?
13 Officer James Dewey: Correct, yeah. And it wasn't, it wasn't concealed or anything it was
14 just a, a gun on his hip. Uh –
15 Brian Davidson: Have ya, Have you ever encountered anything like that?
16 Officer James Dewey: I've never seen that, um, anywhere-
17 Brian Davidson: Okay.
18 Officer James Dewey: in Oregon. Um, and this guy was fighting. Um, he was with a, I think
19 it was a smaller group so again, going back to the, like the drunken
20 bar brawl trope there's a couple of like primary belligerents, guys
21 fighting and then there's a buncha guys yelling and, um, rounding –
22 Brian Davidson: Would –
23 Officer James Dewey: – 'em up on the sides.
24 Brian Davidson: – would you characterize the scene as chaotic?
25 Officer James Dewey: Very much so, yeah. I, uh, usually you can get like a, like a flash
26 reading on what's going on. I, it took me a while here, um, it just
27 looked like a buncha guys fighting. Um, so there's probably 4 or
22 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 5 guys like in this core group that were fighting. Um, I saw at least
2 on punch thrown, um, so it wasn't like a, like a shaking match, um,
3 guys are pulling, shoving. Um, so it was a, it was fight. Um, and the
4 guy with a gun on his hip was in the fight. Um, hadn't quite picked
5 up his role in that yet. Um, as soon as I heard gun and saw a gun, I
6 don't know if you've had that like adrenalized tunnel vision where
7 you kinda like laser in on one thing, like you're about to have a car
8 accident, you feel like all you can see is the car that's about to hit
9 you? Um, so I, I could see the gun and I could see it's in the fight.
10 Um, Shawn, my partner, um, is coming up behind me. Uh, he's also
11 yelling.
12 Brian Davidson: He's on foot at this point?
13 Officer James Dewey: Correct. He'd gotten out of the car, uh, somewhere back here so he
14 woulda been coming up from behind me and to my left, I believe, so
15 he was kinda walkin' up this way. I'm still about here. Um, Shawn's
16 very vocal. He, um, started giving commands as well, um, I can't
17 remember exactly what he said.
18 Brian Davidson: Did you, eh, I guess at some point did you exclaim “gun” or did you
19 inform –
20 Officer James Dewey: Yeah.
21 Brian Davidson: – Officer McKenzie that you had, there was a firearm in the
22 encounter?
23 Officer James Dewey: Yes. Um –
24 Brian Davidson: How did you do that? Do you remember?
25 Officer James Dewey: I don't remember exactly what I said but as soon as I was aware that
26 he was coming up with me, I made him aware that there was a gun
27 involved. Um, I said, you know, something like he's got a gun or
23 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 yeah, something. Um, so very rapidly both Shawn and I were aware
2 that there was a firearm involved with the fight.
3 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. All right. Now as a, as a police officer, given your
4 training at the academy, um, wha-, when you are aware of a firearm
5 in a scenario like this wha-, how does that change things for you?
6 Officer James Dewey: Um, it turns it into a stupid drunk street brawl into something that
7 can be deadly very quickly. Um, so like they teach a whole second
8 on how to carry a concealed and off-duty, um, in my firearms
9 instructor training, so like I'm qualified to teach that. Um, if you're
10 carrying concealed, um, I would never teach anyone to car-, carry
11 openly in downtown Portland. Um, every situation you go to turns
12 into something that's potentially fatal so if you go to pump your gas,
13 you're going to pump your gas and you've introduced something that
14 could turn it deadly. Um, you go to a restaurant with your family and
15 you bring a gun, you turn the restaurant into something that now has
16 a gun in it, um, and that's something we're cognizant of as police
17 officers as well. Um, it's why our holsters have three levels of
18 retention. That's why our, all of our equipment's bolted down. Um,
19 that's why we have to go qualify every couple months. So it's with
20 that, um, awareness that you come into a situation like this and it
21 goes from something where, like I probably would've just yelled at a
22 couple guys and maybe given one a citation and sent 'em all on their
23 way to now it's, um, potentially a shooting and it's potentially a, um,
24 deadly for anyone who's there.
25 Brian Davidson: How much time do you think tra-, elapsed between when you
26 stepped out of your police vehicle and you were notified there was a
27 firearm in the encounter?
24 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Officer James Dewey: Um, almost immediately. Um, someone thought enough of him
2 pointing the gun on somebody earlier to let me know right away.
3 Brian Davidson: Er-, so like seconds or?
4 Officer James Dewey: Yeah, it had to been seconds.
5 Brian Davidson: Okay. All right. Um, so uh, what happens next?
6 Officer James Dewey: Um –
7 Brian Davidson: You, I think you testified that you informed your partner there was a
8 gun in the scenario. Uh, you said something to the effect of he's got a
9 gun –
10 Officer James Dewey: Yeah.
11 Brian Davidson: – I think that's your testimony.
12 Officer James Dewey: Yeah.
13 Brian Davidson: Um, walk us through what occurred next.
14 Officer James Dewey: Um, I can't remember if I told my partner that I had been informed
15 he pulled the gun earlier, um, so he was willing to utilize it at least to
16 threaten people. Um, but Shawn started giving commands as well.
17 Um, I think at that point he was still to kind of like break up the
18 fight. If a gun's in a holster, it's not dangerous to anyone. It's just
19 like, it shouldn't be there but it's not dangerous to anybody. Um, so
20 again, I apologize for the sequencing but at some point after I told
21 Shawn that there was a gun involved, the group that was fighting,
22 um, lost its balance. Um, somebody hit somebody, somebody pulled
23 somebody down and the whole group of two, three, four guys went
24 to the sidewalk. Um, and as we're still shouting and trying to figure
25 out what's goin' on, um, the guy with the gun stands up and it's no
26 longer holstered, it's in his –
27 Brian Davidson: Did he, uh, the guy who had the gun –
25 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Officer James Dewey: Yeah.
2 Brian Davidson: –did he, he went down as well.
3 Officer James Dewey: Yeah, yeah, sorry, he was, so he was involved in the main, with the
4 core group that was fighting. The whole group goes down, kind of in
5 a heap. Um, uh, whole group goes down and in sort of a, the chaos of
6 the group getting back up, shuffling up or s, staggering up, the guy
7 with the gun comes up with the gun in his hand.
8 Brian Davidson: Before you continue, would you may, mind shifting to an overhead
9 view and –
10 Officer James Dewey: Yeah.
11 Brian Davidson: – maybe kinda show, zoom in and kind of show us –
12 Officer James Dewey: Uh, it's back here.
13 Brian Davidson: Uh, yeah, if you could.
14 Officer James Dewey: Click on that I think, ah-.
15 Brian Davidson: Oh, that's not it.
16 Officer James Dewey: Oh, restore.
17 Brian Davidson: Um, how do you go back over –
18 Officer James Dewey: ****
19 Brian Davidson: There we go.
20 Officer James Dewey: Uh, *** map. Um, I think I rotated it. Yeah, so, sorry, it’s been
21 rotated a little bit. Um, we're now looking at this section of sidewalk
22 here. So, um, and a little more.
23 Brian Davidson: Zoom in maybe as much as you can.
24 Officer James Dewey: Is that okay?
25 Brian Davidson: Uh –
26 Officer James Dewey: That’s it.
27 Brian Davidson: That as close as you’re ****.
26 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Officer James Dewey: Yeah?
2 Brian Davidson: Okay.
3 Officer James Dewey: Um, a little fuzzy.
4 Brian Davidson: Yeah.
5 Officer James Dewey: So these are
6 Brian Davidson: Could you pull it down a little bit.
7 Officer James Dewey: Oh, this way?
8 Brian Davidson: Maybe a little over, can you get overhead?
9 Officer James Dewey: Uh, sorry.
10 Brian Davidson: Uh, why don't you let me grab that for you?
11 Officer James Dewey: Yeah.
12 Brian Davidson: Thanks.
13 Officer James Dewey: That works.
14 Brian Davidson: How's that?
15 Officer James Dewey: Yeah, yeah, that works.
16 Brian Davidson: So maybe you can tell us where you were –
17 Officer James Dewey: Yeah.
18 Brian Davidson: – approximately where Officer McKenzie was and approximately
19 where this –
20 Officer James Dewey: Mm hmm.
21 Brian Davidson: – individual in the group were.
22 Officer James Dewey: Uh, so these little smudges are trees. Um, I woulda been, gosh, about
23 here and then Shawn was coming up, I actually didn't make, like eye
24 contact with Shawn, I knew he was there, I know that he, we're
25 trained to like position ourselves correctly so I didn't need to look at
26 him to know that he was to my left and probably behind me a little
27 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 ways so probably Shawn, me, um, and the group was fighting and
2 fell a little further back, maybe here and here.
3 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
4 Officer James Dewey: Group was fighting and fell about here. Um, and again, when I,
5 when the group went down, um, for whatever reason the guy drew
6 the gun, stood up with the gun in his hand, um, I think it was at a
7 low, kinda by his, by his thigh –
8 Brian Davidson: In his right hand?
9 Officer James Dewey: Correct, yeah, um, which I, if it's holstered on your right and it's in
10 your right hand, it's probably gonna be your firing hand. Um –
11 Brian Davidson: Was it, do you know if it was still in the holster or out of the holster
12 at that time?
13 Officer James Dewey: Um, I don't. Like if, typically, you can't have it in your hand if it's
14 still in the holster but yeah.
15 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
16 Officer James Dewey: So, uh, he had it in his hand. Um, at this point, like it's, kind a felt
17 like that like twisting, like nauseous adrenalized feeling in your gut,
18 um, that this is now, it's no longer in the holster, it's not safe
19 anymore, it's now in a fight and in his hand. Um, both me and Shawn
20 s-, are now, this guy's our only focus. Um, there's still a ton of
21 people, um, behind us yelling around him, um, kind of like just in a,
22 a mob, essentially, around us. Um, and that we're m-, now giving
23 commands to, to drop the gun. Um, that's like, that's your only
24 option. Police are there and you're in a fight with a gun, like you
25 need to, you're being told to drop the gun. Um, we need to get the
26 gun like out of the conflict, essentially and get it safe again. It can be
27 safe on the ground, it can be safe in the holster, it's not safe in your
28 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 hand. Um, so Shawn and I are both yelling at this guy to drop the
2 gun.
3 Brian Davidson: At, at this point, uh, had you pulled your firearm?
4 Officer James Dewey: Yeah, yeah, I must have. I think I pulled, I think I had my gun out at
5 a depressed, called a depressed ready, it's like essentially pointing at
6 the ground, um, earlier than that. I'm not sure when I pulled it.
7 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
8 Officer James Dewey: Um, so my gun's out. I assume Shawn's weapon is out. Um, we're
9 both yelling at this guy to just drop it. Um –
10 Brian Davidson: What is the distance between yourself and the individual at this
11 point?
12 Officer James Dewey: Uh, very short. Ah, woulda been, I don't know if there's a scale but
13 between here and here –
14 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
15 Officer James Dewey: – so a 20th of a block, couple paces.
16 Brian Davidson: So 15, 20 feet or?
17 Officer James Dewey: Yeah, yeah. Um, so now, I'm screaming, like, begging really for this
18 guy to drop his gun.
19 Brian Davidson: Was there anything between you and him that would've impeded his
20 ability to hear you and your partner giving commands?
21 Officer James Dewey: Just, just the fight. Um, no. He was-
22 Brian Davidson: The voices you were using to give commands, were they **** soft
23 or loud?
24 Officer James Dewey: No. We were s-, we were screaming at him. Uh, it woulda been, um,
25 probably from one room, one side of this room to the other.
26 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
29 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Officer James Dewey: Um, so imagine someone, if the women's room, screaming at you,
2 like you can probably hear them. Um –
3 Brian Davidson: And was he complying with these commands?
4 Officer James Dewey: No.
5 Brian Davidson: And, and is that an additional level of concern –
6 Officer James Dewey: Yeah, yeah.
7 Brian Davidson: – um, to you?
8 Officer James Dewey: So every, so every time you give a command like drop the gun and it
9 doesn't happen, that's an, and there's already a fight going on and he's
10 already used it, um, it's an escalation, it's like a twisting of that knot
11 in your stomach that this is getting much, much worse. It's, he's
12 showing an intent to if not disobey you, then to, then he's, he's got
13 his own agenda goin' on and him dropping the gun isn't part of
14 whatever agenda he has.
15 Brian Davidson: All right. So what happened next?
16 Officer James Dewey: Um, so we're giving these commands. The, the crowd now is, I think
17 the crowd is aware that there's a lot more going on now and it starts
18 to kinda part away from him. Um, and as we're yelling at him to drop
19 the gun, the gun came up toward us. I remember, like a, like I said, I
20 had that laser focus, I, I, I can no longer see the frame of the gun
21 which is like the, like the, like the outline of a gun, you'd imagine. I
22 stopped seeing the frame and I just saw his body position come up
23 and I, I knew, it was pointed at us. Um, I don't think it was pointed at
24 me but my partner was to my left. Um, there was still everyone
25 there. There was probably a dozen people involved or spectating or
26 still there and, um, it's just, it's trained into you and that's when my
27 partner and I started firing.
30 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: Um, why did you choose to fire at that moment?
2 Officer James Dewey: Um, it's like a, he was gonna start shooting people. It's, that's the
3 only thing that you can consider. Um, that's the yeah, that's the only
4 consideration you can have in that instance. There's no reason to be
5 pointing a gun at somebody on a city street in the middle of the night
6 so my thought was he's gonna start shooting people.
7 Brian Davidson: When you say people, do you mean yourself, other bystanders –
8 Officer James Dewey: Yeah.
9 Brian Davidson: – your partner?
10 Officer James Dewey: Like, um, yeah. Um, I thought immediately my partner but then also
11 like everybody else there. Um, and it's pretty easy at the flick of the
12 wrist to go from one person to the next if they're, their body is
13 positioned toward you. Um, so that's, that was my thought uh, the
14 gun came up above his waist, he's gonna start shooting people and,
15 uh, uh, my partner must've thought the same thing 'cause I think we
16 started firing simultaneously.
17 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. Di-, wou-, did you, was your decision to fire an
18 independent decision that you made or did you just start firing
19 because you heard your partner fire?
20 Officer James Dewey: No, it was absolu, absolutely independent.
21 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. And, um, why don't you tell us um, how you're trained,
22 you know, in these, think they're sometimes referred to as deadly
23 force encounters?
24 Officer James Dewey: Yeah.
25 Brian Davidson: Um, how are you trained to use your firearm? What are you in,
26 trained to aim at and, um, how many rounds are you trained to fire?
31 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 When are you supposed to stop firing? Walk us through that process
2 and how it, uh –
3 Officer James Dewey: Sure.
4 Brian Davidson: – im, was implemented in this –
5 Officer James Dewey: Sure.
6 Brian Davidson: – encounter.
7 Officer James Dewey: Um, so your, police's firearm is your, it's your deadly force tool. Um,
8 so that thought that I already mentioned, he's gonna start shooting
9 people, um, my response to that was to fire. And you fire, um, at the
10 center of the person, we call it center mass which is your, the biggest
11 target which is, um, until that thought goes away. So he's gonna start
12 shooting people, I have to make that stop. Uh, you fire until either
13 the gun's on the ground or he's on the ground or the threat goes
14 away. Uh –
15 Brian Davidson: Are you trained to shoot to kill?
16 Officer James Dewey: No, no, you, the only consideration is make him stop pointing the
17 gun at people and that's, that's it. So I think, uh, we fired. I didn't
18 know how many rounds I fired at the time. Um, and he fell and
19 Shawn and I both stopped firing.
20 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. And do you know how many rounds you fired?
21 Officer James Dewey: Um, I think it was ten, which I calculated afterwards.
22 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. And, uh, how long, do you know how long it took you to
23 fire ten rounds?
24 Officer James Dewey: Uh, very, very short amount of time, um, seconds, probably less than
25 2 seconds.
32 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm, okay. Um, and your firearms, um, for those who aren't
2 super well acquainted with, um, **** firearms being described as
3 automatic, semi-automatic –
4 Officer James Dewey: Right.
5 Brian Davidson: – um, what kind of firearms do you carry?
6 Officer James Dewey: Uh, Glock 9-millimeter, uh, handguns which are semi-automatic so
7 which, means, uh, every time you depress the trigger it fires one
8 round.
9 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. So to fire a round, you have to pull the trigger **** each
10 time to fire?
11 Officer James Dewey: Correct.
12 Brian Davidson: Okay. Um, um, why don't just, uh, just, may, you know, some of this
13 might seem silly, but, you know, not everyone has, uh, same level of
14 understanding. Why not just have to shoot the gun out of his hand,
15 something like that?
16 Officer James Dewey: Um, it's possible. Um –
17 Brian Davidson: Sorry, it's what?
18 Officer James Dewey: It's impossible.
19 Brian Davidson: Impossible.
20 Officer James Dewey: Well, as close to impossible as. So I'm a, I'm a firearms instructor.
21 Um, I was assigned to a scout sniper unit in the military. Um, I had a
22 combat deployment. I've shot a lot, I'm instructor. Um, I can't make
23 that shot, um, even from that distance, uh, it's such a small target, I
24 have so much adrenaline, um, I mean, ideally if you could train
25 someone to that standard, absolutely, you should do that but it's not,
26 it's not taught, it's not, um, I don't think any police department
27 anywhere would train its officers to do that, just can't be done.
33 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. Uh, also why not wait to see if he's actually gonna fire at
2 you or not and then return fire?
3 Officer James Dewey: Uh, it's, again, it's, it's not for you, it's for everyone else there. Um,
4 and he's already shown, he'd already shown me at least his intention
5 to ignore us, his intention to use the gun. Um, he's already a guy with
6 a handgun in downtown Portland fighting on the street. Um, I can't, I
7 can't trust that he's gonna decide not to start shooing people. Like I
8 know that I'm not gonna shoot innocent people but I don't know, I
9 didn't know him. Um, I don't know his motives, anything about this
10 guy. Um, like I can't trust that he's not gonna start killing people.
11 Brian Davidson: Uh, why not use a different tool? You've got other tools, I think,
12 right?
13 Officer James Dewey: Sure.
14 Brian Davidson: Taser, less lethal options –
15 Officer James Dewey: Yeah.
16 Brian Davidson: – um, would those have been appropriate tools for this scenario?
17 Officer James Dewey: Unfortunately, not. Um, so we carry a, a taser, which is a, it shoots
18 like the probes out, um, and that's our tool for people who are gonna
19 get into a fist fight with us, people who aren't, you know, don't have
20 guns. Um, tasers aren't effective a lot of the times. They'll hit, um,
21 they'll hit like so one probe'll hit here and one probe'll hit my lapel
22 and it won't do anything, like it needs to create that circuit. Um, so
23 we're not trained to use tasers in –
24 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
25 Officer James Dewey: – instances like this.
26 Brian Davidson: Okay. Um, so what happened uh? Do you cease firing as does your
27 partner? What, what occurred next?
34 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Officer James Dewey: Um, I think I said the F word, um, so he goes down, um, my partner
2 and I are now, like there's still a danger, there's still a gun next to
3 him, um, there's still a ton a people around us, so I started giving
4 orders to, for everyone to get back, um, a lotta people are now
5 screaming at us, um, so I assume he had friends with him there. Um,
6 our priority is still to keep people away from the gun and make sure
7 that the scene is safe, so scene security is now our priority, um, I've
8 got my gun pointed at the ground now, but it's still out 'cause there's
9 still a gun on the ground in front of us. Um, telling everybody to get
10 away from us, um, to get away from him. My partner's doing the
11 same thing. I think he's still to my left. Um, and I get on my radio
12 right away, so I think I said earlier, our radios are separate from
13 Portland's, so I have to switch over to Portland's radio net, which is
14 just like a little toggle. Um, I switch over, um, I try to describe, um,
15 what had happened and what I needed, which sounded on the radio
16 like shots fired, uh, that's, at this location, um, and I think I said,
17 asked for Portland Police to send units and shut down Southwest
18 College, which is the street between Broadway and Southwest 6th,
19 uh, which means, shut it down means stop activity, so, so you can
20 gather witnesses, preserve evidence, um, make the scene safe, get
21 this guy help. Um, so I, I send that out over the radio, um, and they
22 must have copied it pretty well because within, uh, seconds, there
23 were police cars coming in, like a fire hose essentially. Um –
24 Brian Davidson: So why, why didn't, uh, for example, you didn't run up immediately
25 and try to provide medical attention to him?
26 Officer James Dewey: Correct.
27 Brian Davidson: Why is that? Is that in accordance with your training?
35 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Officer James Dewey: Yes. Um, so there's still-
2 Brian Davidson: Like why?
3 Officer James Dewey: So there's still, um, we don't, we didn't know his, his state, um, we
4 didn't know if he was hit, uh, if he would have been startled and,
5 what his level of consciousness was and the gun was still
6 immediately next to him. Um, so it takes, um, more officers,
7 especially with that many people, um, if it had just been me and
8 Shawn and only him and no one else there, we could have helped
9 him, but given the number of people around us, people like wanting
10 to run up to the scene, people wanting to run in and help him, um,
11 we had to, both of us maintain security around him.
12 Brian Davidson: Did the crowd seem helpful or hostile?
13 Officer James Dewey: Hostile, um, at least to me. Um, yeah, a lotta that, it felt like the, that
14 drunken brawl anger suddenly found new targets in Shawn and
15 myself. Um, you know, it's a traumatic things but it's, we still have to
16 maintain the security of the, what had just happened. Uh, and it helps
17 him too, like if you have chaos everywhere, they're not gonna send
18 in an ambulance. Um, you have to make the scene safe, and then the
19 ambulance will come in, and then he gets help.
20 Brian Davidson: So, at some point you actually did go over and render, ‘cause I think
21 you mentioned part of our training is in –
22 Officer James Dewey: Yeah, I'm, I'm a first aid and tactical medicine instructor.
23 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
24 Officer James Dewey: So, after just tons of police started getting there, um, lights and
25 sirens, they started making the scene more safe. Portland officers, I
26 believe, were the first ones to go up and secure the gun, which needs,
27 means, pick it up and take it away. Um, and as soon as that happens,
36 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 um, I holstered, which means I put my, my weapon in the holster and
2 I went up to, um, the, the guy. Um, I asked, I think there were two or
3 three Portland officers with him. Um, I asked if there was anything I
4 could do. I checked, think it was his left hand for a distal pulse, so,
5 it’s sorry a, a wrist pulse. Um, I didn't feel one, um, I asked if they
6 had detected any breathing, um, they said that they had, I think, um,
7 but then they started CPR. Um, CPR is for unresponsive persons,
8 people without breathe or a heartbeat. Um, CPR is like the last step
9 in, um, rendering aid to somebody. Um, so once they had started
10 doing CPR, um, there's not a lot more you can do without
11 paramedics there. Uh, so I took a step back and wanted to make sure
12 that there was room for ambulance personnel to get up there, 'cause
13 they have like lots of stuff. They bring in gurneys and giant duffle
14 bags full of medical stuff, so they need a lot of space. Um, so I
15 stepped back, um, while they were doing CPR.
16 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. All right. You're body wire camera was running during
17 all of this.
18 Officer James Dewey: Yes.
19 Brian Davidson: Um, what did, what happened to you and your partner at that point?
20 Officer James Dewey: So, um, um, we were kind of like taken away from it by, uh, Portland
21 police. Um, so once this whole thing happened it turns into an active
22 investigation and our, our weapons now are now evidence. Uh, we
23 need to be taken away from the, the scene. So, I was taken to a patrol
24 car ah, kind of up around the corner, and just kinda, you just sit
25 there. Basically, it sucks. Um, you can't help anymore, um, you can't
26 talk to anybody. Um –
27 Brian Davidson: So, you were sequestered from your partner –
37 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Officer James Dewey: Correct.
2 Brian Davidson: – you were not allowed to communicate with him after that.
3 Officer James Dewey: Yeah. We didn't, I think I said, "Shawn, are you okay?" He said,
4 "Yeah." Um, but that was all that we talked about.
5 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. Okay. Um, the, uh, individual who you used your firearm
6 against, um, you may have seen his name is Jason Washington. Um,
7 he died obviously –
8 Officer James Dewey: Yeah.
9 Brian Davidson: – as a result of this. Um, had you ever encountered him before? Did
10 you know him as far as you know?
11 Officer James Dewey: No.
12 Brian Davidson: All right.
13 Officer James Dewey: No. I don't think so.
14 Brian Davidson: Uh, either in police work or in any other capacity.
15 Officer James Dewey: No.
16 Brian Davidson: Okay. Um, uh, you have not seen, um, the body worn camera video,
17 is that correct?
18 Officer James Dewey: No. And, I was told to stay away from like the media and stuff too. I
19 know like there was a bunch of people filming with cell phones and
20 stuff. I didn't looked at any of it.
21 Brian Davidson: Okay. All right. Um, I'm going to play your body worn camera video
22 now. Uh, you have not seen this before.
23 Officer James Dewey: Yep.
24 Brian Davidson: Okay. Do you, do you need a break or you?
25 Officer James Dewey: No, I'm, I’m good.
26 Brian Davidson: Okay. Yes.
27 Other Speaker: ****
38 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: Well, I was gonna play the video, but if you want to ask a question
2 now you can.
3 Other Speaker: Um, so, back when, um, you saw the guy stand up and he had the
4 gun in his hand, um, and you were yelling at him to drop it –
5 Officer James Dewey: Yeah.
6 Other Speaker: Did he respond at all or was he saying anything?
7 Officer James Dewey: Not that I could hear. No.
8 Other Speaker: Okay.
9 Brian Davidson: It actually reminds me of a question I had, and I'll just go ahead and
10 ask it now.
11 Officer James Dewey: Sure.
12 Brian Davidson: You said, uh, originally when you saw the gun in his hand, you
13 couldn't tell if it was, I guess, in a holster or not.
14 Officer James Dewey: Yeah, no.
15 Brian Davidson: Okay. Later, when you saw point, him pointing at you, was it in or
16 out of the holster?
17 Officer James Dewey: I, I can't tell. I would assume it would not be in the holster.
18 Brian Davidson: Okay. I mean, you said you saw the barrel at, pointing at you or?
19 Officer James Dewey: Um, yeah. It was just like the, that it was yeah, pointed at me.
20 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. Okay.
21 Other Speaker: Um, also I don't know the law. Is it legal to have a firearm there on
22 campus?
23 Officer James Dewey: Yeah. I mean you can, the second amendment, um, you can have, if,
24 if you had a permit, you can carry concealed. I, you're not really
25 supposed to have it open carried in downtown Portland. But, I think
26 there's a city ordinance against it. Um, but that wouldn't be
27 something we'd like arrest him for on its face. Just not a good idea.
39 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: Anyone have questions before we go to the video. No. Okay. ****
2 I'm gonna pause this for just a second. I'm going to turn the lights
3 down so we have a better view of it. Um, so you recognize this
4 vantage point?
5 Officer James Dewey: Yeah. So, this is coming south on Broadway. The fight's gonna be up
6 here and to our, that's basically directly ahead and to the left.
7 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
8 Officer James Dewey: There's gonna be no sound for the first 30 seconds. **** sorry, do
9 you want me to like narrate as we go or?
10 Brian Davidson: Uh, let's maybe just watch it once.
11 Officer James Dewey: Okay.
12 Other Speaker: Hey, police. Hey.
13 Other Speaker: **** –
14 Other Speaker: Back up, back up.
15 Other Speaker: **** –
16 Other Speaker: He pulled a gun on us. He pulled a gun. He pulled a gun.
17 Other Speaker: come on –
18 Other Speaker: Hey, –
19 Other Speaker: ****.
20 Other Speaker: Hey. Hey. Hey, all you guys.
21 Other Speaker: Hey, hey, hey.
22 Other Speaker: Hey, sir, sir, you gotta back up.
23 Other Speaker: **** get the fuck back. **** get back –
24 Other Speaker: He's got a gun.
25 Other Speaker: **** –
26 Other Speaker: Stop, stop, stop. Drop the gun. Drop the gun.
27 Other Speaker: Stop –
40 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Other Speaker: I will shoot you–
2 Other Speaker: Fuck.
3 Other Speaker: Oh, dude come on.
4 Other Speaker: Get out of here, get out of here, sir, get out of here. Sir, get out of
5 here. Move away.
6 Other Speaker: PSU3 on central. We have shots fired, shots fired
7 Other Speaker: Please get away, please get away.
8 Other Speaker: 3 and 6 –
9 Other Speaker: Yo, officer, yo, are you an officer?
10 Other Speaker: – Hey,
11 Other Speaker: – **** Sixth and Broadway and Southwest College. Have a seat
12 man, sit down, sit down.
13 Other Speaker: I’m trying to get away from this.
14 Other Speaker: Sit down. Please sit down.
15 Other Speaker: **** –
16 Other Speaker: Get on the ground.
17 Other Speaker: PSU3 I need everything blocked off on Southwest College. As many
18 units as we can get please.
19 Other Speaker: ****.
20 Other Speaker: ****Get on the floor, bro.
21 Other Speaker: Do not move.
22 Other Speaker: Get on the floor, get on the floor, bro.
23 Other Speaker: **** bro.
24 Other Speaker: ****.
25 Other Speaker: Hey ****.
26 Other Speaker: ****shoot him, they shot him.
27 Other Speaker: Hey.
41 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Other Speaker: Stop.
2 Other Speaker: Back up.
3 Other Speaker: Do not move.
4 Other Speaker: ****.
5 Other Speaker: ****
6 Other Speaker: Officer, officer, officer, officer, officer, officer.
7 Other Speaker: Yeah.
8 Other Speaker: Officer, yo officer ****.
9 Other Speaker: Hey
10 Other Speaker: Get down, get down, get down.
11 Other Speaker: Sit down. Sit down.
12 Other Speaker: Get down, get down.
13 Other Speaker: Sit down, sir, sit down.
14 Other Speaker: Sit down.
15 Other Speaker: Sit down.
16 Other Speaker: Sit down.
17 Other Speaker: Hands back up hands back up.
18 Other Speaker: ****.
19 Other Speaker: You just shot him.
20 Other Speaker: ****.
21 Other Speaker: You all just shot him.
22 Other Speaker: ****.
23 Other Speaker: **** boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom,
24 boom, boom, boom.
25 Other Speaker: Back up.
26 Other Speaker: ****.
27 Other Speaker: Ease up, ease up.
42 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Other Speaker: ****.
2 Other Speaker: He’s dead. He’s dead.
3 Other Speaker: You guys, all you guys need to back up.
4 Other Speaker: You killed him. You killed **** –
5 Other Speaker: Back up.
6 Other Speaker: – concealed weapon,
7 Other Speaker: Back up
8 Other Speaker: *** you killed a man with a concealed weapon, and you're done,
9 bitch.
10 Other Speaker: Back up, Back up, guys. All you guys back up.
11 Other Speaker: **** –
12 Other Speaker: Back up.
13 Other Speaker: ****–
14 Other Speaker: **** I got you covered.
15 Other Speaker: ****
16 Other Speaker: Back up.
17 Other Speaker: ****
18 Other Speaker: Hey back up, back up guys.
19 Other Speaker: ****–
20 Other Speaker: Back up ****.
21 Other Speaker: Bro, you killed him.
22 Other Speaker: Back up.
23 Other Speaker: You killed him.
24 Other Speaker: Back up, back up.
25 Other Speaker: ****
26 Other Speaker: He's dead.
27 Other Speaker: Back up you guys.
43 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Other Speaker: He's dead bro. I don't even know him. He's dead.
2 Other Speaker: Back up.
3 Other Speaker: He's dead bro. You killed him.
4 Other Speaker: Back the fuck up.
5 Other Speaker: You killed him bro–
6 Other Speaker: Okay. Back up.
7 Other Speaker: You killed him ****. You killed him. You killed him bro. ****
8 Other Speaker: ****
9 Other Speaker: ****
10 Other Speaker: back up.
11 Other Speaker: ****
12 Other Speaker: ****
13 Other Speaker: I have it recorded ****
14 Other Speaker: Back up.
15 Other Speaker: **** yo, yo, yo.
16 Other Speaker: ****
17 Other Speaker: ****
18 Other Speaker: Is that the gun? There's a gun somewhere here.
19 Other Speaker: They picked it up.
20 Other Speaker: ****
21 Other Speaker: ****
22 Other Speaker: They just killed that man–
23 Other Speaker: ****
24 Other Speaker: ****
25 Other Speaker: ****
26 Other Speaker: You're a pussy. You're a pussy.
27 Other Speaker: Back up.
44 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Other Speaker: You're a pussy.
2 Other Speaker: Back up, back up.
3 Other Speaker: ****
4 Other Speaker: He killed ****
5 Other Speaker: ****
6 Other Speaker: ****
7 Other Speaker: ****
8 Other Speaker: good job ****
9 Other Speaker: Okay, get help-
10 Other Speaker: Uh.
11 Other Speaker: ****
12 Other Speaker: ****
13 Other Speaker: **** wrap or anything?
14 Other Speaker: Yeah, we got one wrap so ****.
15 Other Speaker: ****
16 Other Speaker: ****
17 Other Speaker: **** right up there all the way around.
18 Other Speaker: Do you guys have the gun?
19 Other Speaker: ****
20 Other Speaker: ****
21 Other Speaker: You guys have the gun.
22 Other Speaker: ****
23 Other Speaker: Okay.
24 Other Speaker: ****
25 Other Speaker: ****
26 Other Speaker: ****
27 Other Speaker: You guys shot him you fuckin’ liar-
45 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Other Speaker: ****
2 Other Speaker: ****
3 Other Speaker: ****
4 Other Speaker: **** officer involved-
5 Other Speaker: ****
6 Other Speaker: ****
7 Other Speaker: ****
8 Other Speaker: ****
9 Other Speaker: ****
10 Other Speaker: ****
11 Other Speaker: Yeah, we shot him.
12 Other Speaker: ****
13 Other Speaker: We shot him.
14 Other Speaker: Okay.
15 Other Speaker: ****
16 Other Speaker: ****
17 Other Speaker: Yeah, we shot him.
18 Other Speaker: You did, okay. ****
19 Other Speaker: Let's call our supervisor.
20 Other Speaker: Okay.
21 Other Speaker: ****
22 Other Speaker: yeah.
23 Other Speaker: ****
24 Other Speaker: ****
25 Other Speaker: ****
26 Other Speaker: ****
27 Other Speaker: ****
46 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Other Speaker: ****
2 Other Speaker: ****
3 Other Speaker: ****
4 Brian Davidson: So at that point you were separated and sequestered from –
5 Officer James Dewey: Yeah.
6 Brian Davidson: Officer McKenzie.
7 Officer James Dewey: Yeah.
8 Brian Davidson: Kept apart for the rest of the night?
9 Officer James Dewey: Yeah.
10 Brian Davidson: All right. Um, are you okay, do you need a minute or, you want to
11 take a break?
12 Officer James Dewey: I’m okay.
13 Brian Davidson: Okay. Um, having seen, that’s the first time you’ve seen this video.
14 Officer James Dewey: Yeah.
15 Brian Davidson: Okay. Um, having now viewed it, um, is there anything you wanna
16 add to your testimony or –
17 Officer James Dewey: No, that’s, yeah, that’s how I remembered it. Um, I don’t –
18 Brian Davidson: Okay. Um, the body-worn camera actually sits below your eyes
19 obviously.
20 Officer James Dewey: Yeah.
21 Brian Davidson: Right? So, um, it doesn't necessarily capture everything that you're
22 seeing because
23 Officer James Dewey: No.
24 Brian Davidson: your eyes are –
25 Officer James Dewey: Yeah, it's actually, there's a lot of, like my head's going like this
26 pretty much the whole time this is happening so it's, it feels like it's a
47 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 different view but it's from my, where I'm standing, uh, it's kinda
2 weird.
3 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
4 Officer James Dewey: thing to watch.
5 Brian Davidson: But the camera does not understand wha-, the camera doesn't pan
6 around when you were looking around –
7 Officer James Dewey: Right.
8 Brian Davidson: It doesn't have a full view of everything you're looking because it's
9 just static on the front of your chest. Is that right?
10 Officer James Dewey: Right. Yeah. We're actually, we're actually trained to like keep our
11 torso pointed to what's going on and then scan with our heads so,
12 yeah.
13 Brian Davidson: Uh, at some point in thevideo, um, you can see you remove the
14 magazine from your, uh, duty weapon.
15 Officer James Dewey: Yeah.
16 Brian Davidson: Um, can you tell us what was going on there?
17 Officer James Dewey: Um, it's, it's called a, a tactical reload. Um, if you, again it goes back
18 to that training and the firearm's instructor stuff. If you're still in a
19 situation and you're now lower on ammunition, you don't know how
20 much ammunition you have, you switch your magazine for a, a fresh
21 one.
22 Brian Davidson: And you keep extra full magazines on your duty belt.
23 Officer James Dewey: Correct.
24 Brian Davidson: How many?
25 Officer James Dewey: Uh, two extra full ones.
26 Brian Davidson: So you took a full one, all right so you removed the one you fired
27 from. Where did that one get placed?
48 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Officer James Dewey: Uh, with the **** in my pocket.
2 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. And then you replaced it with a full magazine?
3 Officer James Dewey: Correct.
4 Brian Davidson: Officer, did you feel that your life or the life of your partner or the
5 life of bystanders were in danger as a result of the gun being pointed
6 in your direction?
7 Officer James Dewey: Yeah, I did.
8 Brian Davidson: All right. Uh, at this point I ’open it up to general questions from the
9 grand jury.
10 Other Speaker: I assume we're gonna see that again at some point.
11 Brian Davidson: Yes, we'll see a couple different versions of it. We'll also see, uh, uh,
12 Officer, um, McKenzie's body-worn camera as well and some stills,
13 yeah. Anybody with questions for, um, Officer McKenzie? No?
14 Okay. All right. Um, we will go and, I just want to make sure I mean
15 you’v watched this for the first time, uh, you've seen it. It's mainly in
16 accord to what your recollection is?
17 Officer James Dewey: Yes.
18 Brian Davidson: Okay. Um, so, um, actually I'm gonna, I'm gonna rewind it here.
19 Let’s uh, maybe you can, just gonna ask you a question or two about
20 this –
21 Officer James Dewey: Yeah.
22 Brian Davidson: Body cam.
23 Other Speaker: Officer?
24 Brian Davidson: Um, did you know when ah, you eventually turned off, off your
25 body-worn camera?
26 Officer James Dewey: Um, it was a, a while after. I was told by a, I think it was a Portland
27 supervisor that the detectives said to turn it off.
49 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: Okay. So like 45 minutes an hour later?
2 Officer James Dewey: Yeah.
3 Brian Davidson: That's a long time just to be sitting in the car.
4 Other Speaker: Hey police, hey
5 Other Speaker: ****
6 Other Speaker: Back up, back up.
7 Other Speaker: ****
8 Other Speaker: Hey, that guy pulled a gun on –
9 Brian Davidson: So this is the individual you mentioned in your testimony that
10 pointed to Mr. Washington and said –
11 Officer James Dewey: He pulled a gun on us.
12 Brian Davidson: He pulled out a gun on us and then you registered that he was
13 pointing at Mr. Washington.
14 Officer James Dewey: Yeah.
15 Other Speaker: **** yeah, he pulled a gun ****, he pulled a gun come on-
16 Other Speaker: Hey,
17 Other Speaker: ****
18 Other Speaker: Hey, hey.
19 Other Speaker: ****
20 Other Speaker: Hey
21 Other Speaker: ****
22 Other Speaker: All you guys-
23 Brian Davidson: At this point, as you see the video, you observed the gun in his right
24 pocket, that's where you observed it?
25 Officer James Dewey: Yeah.
26 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
50 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Officer James Dewey: It looked like it was in a, a holster, ‘cause you could see the full
2 frame of the weapon, I think.
3 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
4 Other Speaker: Hey, hey, hey.
5 Other Speaker: Hey, sir, sir, guys back up.
6 Other Speaker: **** get the fuck back. **** get back –
7 Other Speaker: He's got a gun.
8 Brian Davidson: So at that point you apparently registered that he had a gun.
9 Officer James Dewey: Uh, this is when I was telling, uh, I knew he had a gun because I saw
10 it on hip. I was telling Shawn, uh, who I think is in frame right now.
11 Um, that he has a gun and I'm pointing him out.
12 Other Speaker: Stop, stop, stop.
13 Brian Davidson: At this point you pulled the firearm.
14 Officer James Dewey: Because he had it, I don't know if like I was a couple frames before
15 he had it up pointing forward, away from his body.
16 Other Speaker: He pulled a gun on us. He pulled a gun. He pulled a gun.
17 Other Speaker: come on –
18 Other Speaker: Hey, –
19 Other Speaker: ****.
20 Other Speaker: Hey. Hey. Hey, all you guys.
21 Other Speaker: Hey, hey, hey.
22 Other Speaker: Hey, sir, sir, you gotta back up.
23 Other Speaker: **** get the fuck back. **** get back –
24 Other Speaker: He's got a gun.
25 Officer James Dewey: You can see him reaching for it here and then as he, he rolls up into a
26 seated position and it's pointed at somebody or something.
51 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: Now, I, **** video you're seeing is very grainy when you try to
2 produce it stills. We did do some work on this so there will be some
3 stills that you'll be able to see things more clearly and it's difficult
4 though with this version. I'm gonna try and stop it just, it's not very,
5 uh, clear when you, it’s actually a pretty good video but when you
6 try to stop it, it gets grainy so.
7 Other Speaker: Drop the gun. Drop the gun.
8 Other Speaker: Stop –
9 Other Speaker: I will shoot you–
10 Brian Davidson: And, and as you can see in your version of it, um –
11 Officer James Dewey: Yeah, you can't see him bring it up.
12 Brian Davidson: He's, he's out of frame because the camera's not capturing –
13 Officer James Dewey: Yeah.
14 Brian Davidson: That part of it.
15 Officer James Dewey: Yeah.
16 Brian Davidson: Okay. Um, All right, I just wanted to go over those points. Um,
17 anybody else additional questions for Officer Dewey? No? Okay. All
18 right. We'll go off the record. Uh, the state will call its next witness
19 which is Detective, uh, Rico Beniga.
20 Other Speaker: Do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you are about to
21 give in the matter pending before this Grand Jury shall be the truth,
22 the whole truth and nothing but the truth?
23 Detective Rico Beniga: I do.
24 Brian Davidson: Go ahead, have a seat and if you could state and spell your full name
25 for the Grand Jury.
26 Detective Rico Beniga: It's Rico Beniga, R-I-C-O, last is B-E-N-I-G-A.
27 Brian Davidson: And can you tell the Grand Jury how you're employed.
52 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Detective Rico Beniga: I'm a detective with the Portland Police Bureau.
2 Brian Davidson: And how many years of law enforcement experience do you have?
3 Detective Rico Beniga: Uh, about 23 total, 24.
4 Brian Davidson: Uh, all that with the Portland Police Bureau?
5 Detective Rico Beniga: No, previously with the Honolulu Police Department. I've been with
6 Portland since 1999.
7 Brian Davidson: And, uh, I would imagine you've attended at least one police
8 academy.
9 Detective Rico Beniga: Yes.
10 Brian Davidson: How many police academies actually have you attended?
11 Detective Rico Beniga: Uh, two,
12 Brian Davidson: Uh
13 Detective Rico Beniga: So, Portland's and Honolulu.
14 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. Uh, and can you just kinda walk us through your, um,
15 experiences as a Portland police officer, kind of what have you
16 done? What kind of different assignments have you had?
17 Detective Rico Beniga: Uh, before being promoted to, uh, detective I worked in the uniform
18 patrol where we handled a variety of cases, um, uh, I was promoted
19 to detective in 2004, um, and I've worked in varied assignments,
20 including robbery, um, fraud, um, before I went to the homicide
21 detail uh in 2007 and that's where I've been assigned since.
22 Brian Davidson: So, about 11 years in homicide?
23 Detective Rico Beniga: Yes.
24 Brian Davidson: And, uh, I guess one could imagine that the homicide detail handles
25 murders, things of that nature.
26 Detective Rico Beniga: Yes, among other types of investigations.
53 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: And, uh, is it also your, uh, responsibility in that unit to investigate
2 officer involved uses of deadly force?
3 Detective Rico Beniga: Yes.
4 Brian Davidson: That result in death or perhaps dont?
5 Detective Rico Beniga: Yes.
6 Brian Davidson: Uh, and, uh, how many homicide investigations do you think you've
7 been involved with uh, since you came to the homicide detail?
8 Detective Rico Beniga: Uh, I'd say well at least well over a hundred or so.
9 Brian Davidson: And as lead detective, how many?
10 Detective Rico Beniga: Probably approaching 50, I believe, 50 around there.
11 Brian Davidson: And how many officer-involved shooting cases have you been
12 involved in?
13 Detective Rico Beniga: I would say at least 20.
14 Brian Davidson: And how many as either lead or co-lead?
15 Detective Rico Beniga: Uh, probably six or seven as of now.
16 Brian Davidson: So, were you uh, assigned to be the lead detective in this matter
17 that's before the Grand Jury now, the, uh, Portland State University
18 Police, uh, Department officer-involved shooting incident that's
19 occurred in the early hours of the 29th of June of this year?
20 Detective Rico Beniga: I was.
21 Brian Davidson: Um, why don't you just, uh, tell us how you became aware that this
22 had occurred.
23 Detective Rico Beniga: Okay, I initially received a page, uh, from my supervisor, um, and it
24 di-, directed me to respond to the location of a scene. Our initial
25 information I received it was an officer-involved shooting that was a
26 fatal ah, that involved ah, personnel was ah, Portland State
27 University Police.
54 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. All right. And approximately when did you receive that
2 call, do you re, do you remember?
3 Detective Rico Beniga: I was notified about 0157 hours, 1:57 in the morning.
4 Brian Davidson: That would have been technically on the 29th?
5 Detective Rico Beniga: Correct.
6 Brian Davidson: And was that a, a Thursday morning or a Friday morning?
7 Detective Rico Beniga: That would have been Friday.
8 Brian Davidson: Friday? All right. All right, uh, so where'd you respond to?
9 Detective Rico Beniga: I went to the area of ah, Southwest 6th and College, um, I arrived to
10 the north and I walked into the, the inner scene which was on
11 College between Southwest 6th Avenue and, uh, Southwest
12 Broadway.
13 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. All right, and if everyone wants to pass their attention at
14 the screen, uh, uh, PowerPoint that’s been, prep, uh, prepared to
15 assist Detective Beniga in kind of walking through various aspects of
16 the investigation and to begin with kind of the scene, uh, and uh,
17 what the scene looked like, evidence that was collected, things of
18 that nature. So, um, what do we have here, uh, Detective?
19 Detective Rico Beniga: That's a Google overhead map of the location. To the right there is
20 the intersection of Southwest College and Southwest 6th Avenue.
21 The top of the screen is generally a north direction.
22 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. All right, I'm gonna click on this. This is gonna get us
23 into a Google live active and, uh, Google****here of the same
24 scene. I'm gonna go ahead and hand you the, uh, remote here and
25 maybe you can just kinda just walk us through, kinda orient us and if
26 you need to drop down into street view, feel free to do that.
55 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Detective Rico Beniga: Okay, this building located on the, uh, northwest corner of Sixth and
2 College is the Cheerful Tortoise, um, this building here, uh, on the
3 southwest corner is Mak’s Market. Uh, there's a Chipotle Restaurant
4 at the basement, or on the street level of this building which is the
5 university apartments. This building here, and the shooting uh, takes
6 place in this area on, on the sidewalk which is the south sidewalk of
7 College uh, Street.
8 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. All right, and, um, when you arrive has, what’s the scene
9 look like, has it been cordoned off?
10 Detective Rico Beniga: It has, uh, there's, a perimeter's been set with, uh, police tape here on
11 Broadway as well as on Sixth Avenue. There are a number of
12 officers on the scene on both perimeter as well as, uh, within the,
13 within the perimeter. Uh, so access is, uh, limited to this inner scene
14 area.
15 Brian Davidson: Okay, um, do you need this particular map anymore right now?
16 Detective Rico Beniga: Uh, no.
17 Brian Davidson: Go, go ahead and minimizeit. There, go right. Let's go ahead and
18 minimize it all the way. There were go and I'll let you kinda walk us
19 through this PowerPoint presentation. I know you've seen it before.
20 Detective Rico Beniga: Okay.
21 Brian Davidson: Um, maybe kinda tell us, uh, you get to the scene and, um, you've
22 maybe move forward one slide there if you click the button down
23 there, uh, yep, that one. Nope, one more.
24 Detective Rico Beniga: Oh.
25 Brian Davidson: That’s not it.
26 Detective Rico Beniga: Sorry.
56 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: There you go. Okay, ****, just, uh, tell us, I don't know if you
2 wanna explain this as kinda, was there a briefing. What did you learn
3 and then maybe walk us through the scene.
4 Detective Rico Beniga: So generally what happens is when the investigative team arrives,
5 uh, we'll be briefed by uniform personnel, usually a sergeant, uh, and
6 the primary officers that, uh, arrive on scene and they tell us what
7 they've learned so far up to our arrival. Uh, after that then
8 assignments are, uh, sort of, uh, assigned. Different detectives or
9 investigators will go out and interview whatever witnesses have been
10 identified uh, and our forensics evidence personnel will start
11 processing, uh, the scene. Uh, that begins with usually photographs,
12 videos, um, and then they'll try and find and mark and document
13 whatever evidence items that may be on the scene.
14 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. Um, what was a typical or maybe you have a specific
15 recollection of kind of the detective response, how many detectives
16 would respond to an incident like this?
17 Detective Rico Beniga: Oh, usually more, uh, than usual than other types of, uh, uh,
18 homicide investigations 'cause this is usually a big deal when a cop
19 says a lot of things to do so, uh, it's sort of a all hands-on deck.
20 They'll send a page out to, uh, a number of detectives and then we'll,
21 whoever can respond will respond.
22 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm, so 6 to 12, somewhere in that range?
23 Detective Rico Beniga: At least six. We typically go out on a, uh, a typical homicide
24 investigation will at least send, the minimum is six detectives will go
25 out uh, in an officer involved shootings it’s a lot more than that.
57 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: Okay, so what was, uh, what was, you had a briefing, you mentioned
2 with uniform officers, what did you learn about kind of the general
3 scenario when you arrived on scene about what had occurred?
4 Detective Rico Beniga: We heard there was an altercation, um, and that PSU officers had
5 come across this altercation, um, and during that time one, someone
6 had brandished a gun, uh, and shots were fired.
7 Brian Davidson: All right. Now, ah, let’s address this now um, in officer-involved
8 shootings, uh, is it typical for um, the officers involved in the
9 shooting to give a statement to detectives at the time that the
10 investigation is occurring?
11 Detective Rico Beniga: No.
12 Brian Davidson: And that, is that uniform across agencies basically?
13 Detective Rico Beniga: Ah, generally, yes.Brian Davidson: Mm hmm, all right, um, so
14 you did not get a statement from either, um, Officer Dewey or
15 Officer McKenzie that evening about what had occurred?
16 Detective Rico Beniga: That's correct.
17 Brian Davidson: Okay, all right. Well, um, again, if you wanna walk us through, um,
18 slides or maybe kinda lay out what you learned, uh, however you'd
19 like to proceed.
20 Detective Rico Beniga: So, this first slide that's up here is just a, uh, a street, uh, a photo
21 looking, it would be in the southwest direction towards the, uh,
22 actual scene. In the foreground there you could see the marked
23 Portland State Police, uh, patrol vehicle, and that building, as I
24 mentioned previously is a university, uh, related apartments and on
25 the street level there, that's a Chipotle Restaurant right on the corner.
26 This here is the same scene looking west, um, towards Broadway.
27 Again, you could see the marked Portland State patrol vehicle. This
58 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 is another scene, another photo that looks west, uh, in the foreground
2 there is the Mak’s Market. It looks like the photos taken right at the,
3 uh, from the southwest corner of Southwest 6th and College. This is a
4 close-up photo of that same sidewalk, that south sidewalk where the
5 shooting occurred. Again, the foreground is the marked patrol unit
6 and you can see on the, go ahead.
7 Brian Davidson: I was gonna ask you, there seems to be things on the ground there.
8 Can you tell, describe what we're looking?
9 Detective Rico Beniga: Yeah, what those are, those white items are, are, uh, business cards.
10 When officers typically arrive on scene it'll, if they locate casings or
11 other evidence items they'll put a, a business card over it just to, uh,
12 initially mark it before our, uh, forensics evidence people can put,
13 uh, yellow placards. This is a close-up of the patrol vehicle again.
14 That same patrol vehicle on the left and then the same business,
15 white business cards, uh, depicting casings that, uh, have been found
16 on the sidewalk. This is a view looking north um, at that same patrol
17 vehicle and again, and on the sidewalk is a number of white business
18 cards noting the, uh, casings. In another scene, uh, excuse me,
19 another photo, this is sort of looking towards west. You could see the
20 decedent Mr. Washington in the background there. And again, in the
21 foreground is, uh, the number of white business cards. Another photo
22 looking northwest uh, direction. Mr. Washington's uh, in the
23 background there. A photo looking north, uh, depicting the location
24 of Mr. Washington, uh, at the edge of the sidewalk, the south
25 sidewalk, and this is looking back, uh, towards the east along that
26 same sidewalk just to give another perspective of, of the scene. A
27 little closer photo of that same perspective.
59 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: Well, there seems to be some other items on the pavement or in the
2 scene can you tell us, like, we’re ganna get a better shot of them here
3 in a second, but what are those items?
4 Detective Rico Beniga: Yeah, ultimately this is determined to be a c, a cell phone that was
5 broken. I think this was a cell phone case. Um, those blue items are
6 latex gloves um, likely from medical personnel and, and police that
7 were on the scene, uh, do every resuscitative efforts. The close-up
8 photo, um, with the cell phone case, uh, there was a broken pair of
9 sunglasses, um, that red bag there is the Portland Police Bureau, uh,
10 first aid kit that every, uh, patrol unit carries. Um, the yellow blanket
11 I believe was provided or placed there by Portland Fire.
12 Brian Davidson: There seems to be something black, um, on the ground to the right of
13 Mr. Washington. Can you tell us what that is?
14 Detective Rico Beniga: I don't know.
15 Brian Davidson: We'll have a picture of it later but –
16 Detective Rico Beniga: Yeah, uh, just to the right of Mr. Washington is the black holster,
17 um, and it's on the ground there. We were there 'til the daylight hours
18 and this is just ano, another, uh, a photo, it's sort of looking, uh,
19 southeast, uh, at the shooting scene and now we've got, uh, or
20 forensics evidence, personnel have replaced the white. Now they
21 have these, uh, the white business cards with these, uh, white
22 placards that actually light up, uh, during low light hours. Another
23 photo of scene looking east on, uh, along Southwest College Street.
24 Brian Davidson: What's that vehicle that's at the, uh, intersection there of, of 6th and
25 College?
26 Detective Rico Beniga: So that is a Portland Police Bureau mobile command center. Uh,
27 that's where we have our briefings and, um, other meetings, um, that
60 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 occur on scene. More photos. Uh, this is looking south towards that
2 Chipotle Restaurant depicting several placards uh,
3 in the roadway and on the sidewalk area. Another photo depicting the, uh, marked patrol unit for
4 Portland State. And one of the vehicles parked along the south curb
5 line College, um, and more, uh, again the placards on the sidewalk.
6 This photo again is looking west towards Broadway and now we got
7 yellow as well as the white placards, uh, depicting evidence items.
8 Same photo looking north of that immediate area, uh, surrounding
9 the uh, marked patrol, Portland State Police. And again, those items
10 previously viewed in the previous photos are now placarded with
11 numbers, uh, on theirs. Placarded items are all collected uh,
12 submitted to evidence. Placard 9 is that broken cell phone. There's
13 that holster, uh, previously mentioned. Looks like that scissor was
14 part of the, uh, first aid kit, uh, utilized during resuscitative efforts.
15 Just one more of the immediate scene. This next slide is a, uh, scene
16 diagram prepared by Detective Slater who's one of the, uh, assisting
17 detectives it just depicts the, uh, general location of all the placards
18 that were collected.
19 Brian Davidson: Would you mind running us through, uh, what each item was?
20 Detective Rico Beniga: Sure.
21 Brian Davidson: And if you need me to turn more light on for you, I can do that.
22 Detective Rico Beniga: Uh, should be okay. So a total of 35 adam, uh, items were, uh,
23 placarded and collected. Uh, Placard 1 was a bullet fragment. Two
24 was also a bullet fragment. Three was a bullet. Four, uh, was a black
25 and red sunglasses without the, the lens. The five was a phone case.
26 Six were the, uh, sunglass lens. Seven was a blue Oakley sunglasses
27 with one of the lens broken. Eight was sunglass lens. Nine was that,
61 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 uh, broken Apple cell phone. Ten was a bullet. Eleven was a holster
2 and Placards 12 through 28 are 9-millimeter shell casings that were
3 located, so 17 total shell casings, uh, were recovered. Placards 29,
4 30, 31, 32, actually 29 to 35 are bullets or bullet fragments. This next
5 slide, uh, depicts in letters under where, uh, the various bullets
6 strikes that were located and documented, uh, think F and H was on
7 the, uh, bike rack. Um, B-E, B and A were on vehicles that were
8 parked along the south, uh, sidewalk or south curb line I should say.
9 Uh, G 1 and 2 were strikes on the Chipotle Restaurant window, um,
10 and C, D and E were bullet strikes located, uh, that traveled, uh, past
11 and, and beyond, uh, Southwest Broadway some distance.
12 Brian Davidson: Detective, are you aware, um, of whether anybody other than Jason
13 Washington was struck by, the rounds fired by the two officers?
14 Detective Rico Beniga: No.
15 Brian Davidson: Nobody else was struck?
16 Detective Rico Beniga: That's correct. This is, uh, part of the scene processing is that our
17 forensics evidence division, uh, now utilize what we call a, a, a 3-D
18 scanner. Uh, the system that we use is Leica Systems. What that does
19 is they'll go and place the, uh, total scanning station, uh, at the scene,
20 at various points of the scene, uh, it shoots a laser out, uh, it basically
21 creates a digital, uh, reconstruction or model of the scene, uh, what
22 they call a point cloud. Um, and then they interface with digital
23 photos that are also taken so you have a, ba, basically a virtual scene,
24 um, that's recreated. And s, one of the features we can do that is we
25 can point and click, uh, on the, uh, screen itself and it'll tell us an
26 accurate measurement, uh, between distances. And one of the first
27 slides here is, uh, uh, the estimated the distance, uh, where
62 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Officer Dewey was. Uh, the reference point here is based on the
2 body, uh, worn camera and the still frame showing where their feet,
3 or where they were located at. And so this is just a rough estimate.
4 And, the distance there is about 21 1/2 feet to where Mr. Washington
5 is.
6 Brian Davidson: And which officer was this?
7 Detective Rico Beniga: This is Officer Dewey's location.
8 Brian Davidson: 'Kay.
9 Detective Rico Beniga: And this is a screen shot of that, uh, like a True View system. This is
10 also a screen shot of the same like a True View system, uh, again
11 based on the body-worn camera video uh, still frame. This is the
12 general area where Officer McKenzie was, uh, when shots initially
13 began, and again, it's about 21 1/2 feet. Part of the process that we do
14 is that we document and photograph the involved officers at the
15 scene, uh, we take photographs to depict how they were, uh, how
16 they appeared, uh, during the incident. This is photographs taken in
17 our mobile commander center of Officer Dewey. I’ll go back uh, he's
18 wearing an external ballistic vest and on that vest, uh, on his left
19 chest area where my arrow is is the, uh, location of the body-worn
20 camera, uh, that uh records the incident. This is just, **** a photo of
21 Officer Dewey from the rear, uh, again has the external ballistic vest
22 on with the word police, uh, on it. This is the, uh, firearm, uh, that
23 we, uh, part of the process is that we’ll take the officer’s firearm.
24 We, we conduct what we call a weapons countdown. We’ll count the
25 amount of bullets that they have, uh, in their firearm as well as in
26 their, uh, available magazines that they have and from that we can
27 determine how many shots, uh, an officer’s fired, generally.
63 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: ****, can you tell me what the, uh, serial number for
2 Officer Dewey's firearm is?
3 Detective Rico Beniga: Yes.
4 So the serial number for Officer Dewey is ZCK991.
5 Brian Davidson: What's that make and model of that firearm?
6 Detective Rico Beniga: That's a Glock, Model 17 and that's a 9-millimeter, uh, caliber gun.
7 Brian Davidson: Is that a fairly common firearm carried by law enforcement?
8 Detective Rico Beniga: Yes.
9 Brian Davidson: Uh, we see one round there, kind of by itself sitting on the paper
10 ****. Can you tell us about that?
11 Detective Rico Beniga: Yeah, well, uh, that round usually depicts the round that we eject
12 from the chamber so that was, uh, contained in the chamber, not in
13 the magazine.
14 Brian Davidson: So –
15 Detective Rico Beniga: – so we have one round that was in the chamber and then, uh, a
16 number of rounds in the magazine which we, uh, we count out later.
17 Brian Davidson: And how many rounds were taken out of the magazine?
18 Detective Rico Beniga: Seventeen out of this magazine.
19 Brian Davidson: And that was the magazine that was in the gun.
20 Detective Rico Beniga: Correct. And that's the capacity, uh, that's the maximum capacity for
21 this magazine.
22 Brian Davidson: Now are you aware of whether or not Officer Dewey, um, executed
23 what's commonly referred to as a tactical reload during this episode?
24 Detective Rico Beniga: Yes, uh, we were told, uh, pretty earlier on that he had done a, a
25 tactical reload, um, of his firearm.
26 Brian Davidson: So this magazine was one he placed in his gun after he had fired
27 earlier shots?
64 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Detective Rico Beniga: That's correct. When you then examine the magazine that, uh,
2 Officer Dewey said that, uh, was in his gun at the time of the
3 shooting and then we recover from that magazine seven rounds. So
4 based on the, the capacity of that magazine and amounts, the amount
5 of rounds still left in the magazine, we, uh, determined that
6 Officer Dewey had fired ten rounds. We'll also examine every
7 magazine that an officer has on their person. Uh, we did so in this
8 case and it indicates, uh, about a bottom pouch, uh, magazine pouch,
9 uh, and we recovered a full 17 rounds in that one. We'll also
10 examined the, uh, taser, uh, that an officer has and determine that,
11 we determined that the tire, the taser was not, uh, fired during this
12 incident.
13 Brian Davidson: Detective, is it true that sometimes officers carry what's called, uh, a
14 backup weapon?
15 Detective Rico Beniga: Correct.
16 Brian Davidson: And what, what is that exactly?
17 Detective Rico Beniga: Uh, a secondary firearm that they'll have on their person um.
18 Brian Davidson: What's the point of that?
19 Detective Rico Beniga: Sometimes, uh, a, a weapon could fail and so a lotta officers carry
20 it’s just as secondary, um, circumstances can get so bad that they
21 require that they go to a backup gun, um, and many often carry a
22 backup while they're on patrol.
23 Brian Davidson: And did you inquire wheth, whether Officer Dewey was carrying
24 backup weapons?
25 Detective Rico Beniga: Yes, he did not have one. This is Officer McKenzie, uh, depicted as
26 he was that night and again, the cursor is on the, pointed on external
27 vest and that is the, uh, body-worn camera that's on his uh left chest
65 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 area. Back photo of Officer McKenzie with the, uh, external vest and
2 police, uh, written on, on it. This Officer McKenzie's gun. During
3 our exam again, the one round we recovered from within the
4 chamber and the magazine that was inserted in the gun at the time.
5 Brian Davidson: And, uh, could you also tell us what the serial number was for
6 Officer Dewey's firearm?
7 Detective Rico Beniga: Two reports. ZVL368, ZVL368.
8 Brian Davidson: Thank you.
9 Detective Rico Beniga: This is that same, uh, magazine, um, we found ten rounds contained
10 therein and that's a 17-round capacity magazine. Based on that, we
11 determined that Officer McKenzie fired seven rounds.
12 Brian Davidson: Are you aware or not of whether Officer McKenzie executed a
13 tactical reload or not?
14 Detective Rico Beniga: He did not. This is the magazine from his top pouch, uh, it's filled to
15 capacity with 17 rounds. And this is the magazine from his bottom
16 pouch, um, filled to capacity with 17 rounds. The photo of his, uh,
17 uh taser, again determined not to have been fired during this
18 incident.
19 Brian Davidson: Uh, before we continue, um, similar question about
20 Officer McKenzie? Are you aware of whether or not he carried a
21 backup weapon?
22 Detective Rico Beniga: No, he did not.
23 Brian Davidson: Okay. So if we go back a slide, uh, so another firearm was recovered
24 at the scene, is that correct?
25 Detective Rico Beniga: Yes.
26 Brian Davidson: Uh, and, um, was it still in place when you arrived?
66 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Detective Rico Beniga: No way it had already been recovered by, uh, Portland
2 Officer Darrell Shaw upon his arrival at the scene.
3 Brian Davidson: Hm. And wh. why did he move it from where it was located?
4 Detective Rico Beniga: At the time, at the time that Officer Shaw arrived, there was still sort
5 of a chaotic scene. There was, uh, uh, some people on the side
6 yelling and, and screaming at officers, so based on that and the
7 weapon being unsecured, um, he took it upon himself to secure that
8 weapon.
9 Brian Davidson: All right. And what kind of weapon was recovered?
10 Detective Rico Beniga: Was determined to be a Walther Arms PPQ. It's a 9-millimeter
11 caliber, uh, semi-automatic handgun. And that's a photo depicting
12 that handgun. Another photo with the, uh, slide lock back uh, empty.
13 At the top of the photo there is, um, like we do when the officer, uh,
14 examination of the gun. Just one round was found within the
15 chamber.
16 Brian Davidson: This ga, gun was loaded?
17 Detective Rico Beniga: Correct.
18 Brian Davidson: Uh, and ready to fire.
19 Detective Rico Beniga: Yes.
20 Brian Davidson: Uh, it doesn't look like there's a magazine seated in the –
21 Detective Rico Beniga: Magazine has been pulled out. Um, this is the, uh, magazine and the
22 contents we determine 14 rounds were contained in it, with a 15-
23 round capacity, uh, magazine.
24 Brian Davidson: Uh, before you go on, uh, were you able to determine who the
25 registered owner of that firearm was?
26 Detective Rico Beniga: Yes, that was, uh, you determined Jeremy Wilkinson, uh, owned that
27 firearm.
67 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: And how did you determine he had purchased it?
2 Detective Rico Beniga: Uh, we saw records from ATF.
3 Brian Davidson: ATF?
4 Detective Rico Beniga: Yes.
5 Brian Davidson: Showing he purchased it.
6 Detective Rico Beniga: Correct.
7 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. Now, were you able to determine whether this, this gun
8 was fired at the scene?
9 Detective Rico Beniga: No, there was no information, uh, to suggest that and it was, uh,
10 filled to capacity, um, uh, with one in the chambers.
11 Brian Davidson: Okay.
12 Detective Rico Beniga: Did not appear so.
13 Brian Davidson: Okay. All right, can go to the next slide. Um, so that kind of sums up
14 the situation at the scene as far as physical evidence is concerned.
15 Um, ****, uh, still a lot of people there when you arrived, is that
16 correct?
17 Detective Rico Beniga: That's correct.
18 Brian Davidson: Um, and you identified some of these people as key witnesses, is that
19 right?
20 Detective Rico Beniga: Yes.
21 Brian Davidson: Can you ah, this is a slide that contains the names of some of those
22 people, can you go one by one through these folks, tell us um,
23 whether at the scene and, kind of, who they are, as you, investigation
24 progressed, who they are in relation to the incident.
25 Detective Rico Beniga: Brian Pratt and Jeremy Wilkinson were both, uh, friends of
26 Mr. Washington. Uh, they were with him throughout the evening,
27 um, from the early afternoon hours. Donald Dietz, Tyler Koenig and
68 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Clyde Barnett are all employees of the Cheerful Tortoise. Uh, they
2 were out there and witnessed and we're trying to intervene at some
3 point. Tuffa Mohamed, Zack Walker, uh, and Patrick Dean were the
4 individuals sorta out, outside and they were, uh, at some points,
5 patrons of this bar and they were the primary ones involved in the
6 sort of arguing that was, the ongoing arguing, uh, with Mr., uh,
7 primarily Mr. Wilkinson. KeyairaSmith was, was out there as well.
8 She's a patron of the bar, uh, somewhat loosely associated to, um,
9 Mr. Dean and Mr. Walker. She ad, she addressed him by name, uh,
10 throughout in her video, um, and she took video of the, uh, of the
11 arguing that was going on just prior to the shooting. So Jurgen Aroy
12 was another, a witness that was there. Uh, he was initially contacted
13 by officers, uh, attempted to try and locate him since. I've not, uh,
14 been successful.
15 Brian Davidson: So detective, um, these folks were interviewed, correct?
16 Detective Rico Beniga: Yes.
17 Brian Davidson: Um, and you were, you, they were at the scene, many of them were
18 at the scene, um, it was obviously late on a Thursday night,
19 technically speaking, um, and from my understanding that um,
20 Cheerful Tortoise was having a drink special that evening. Is that
21 right?
22 Detective Rico Beniga: I believe it was thirsty Thursday is the promotion that they were
23 having during the course of the evening.
24 Brian Davidson: Like quarter beers or dollar beers, or something like that.
25 Detective Rico Beniga: It was dollar beers I believe.
69 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: Okay. So were, uh, any of these people, um, uh, intoxicated to a
2 small or large degree when they were contacted by investigators at
3 the time?
4 Detective Rico Beniga: Yes. Uh, Mr. Pratt, Mr. Wilkinson, Mr. Mohamed. Um, Zack Walker
5 wasn't contacted, uh, and Mr. Dean at some point, uh, I think they all
6 exhibited varying levels of intoxication that night.
7 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. And were some notably more intoxicated than others?
8 Detective Rico Beniga: Yes.
9 Brian Davidson: And who would that be?
10 Detective Rico Beniga: Uh, Mr. Tuffa, uh, Mr. Wilkinson.
11 Brian Davidson: So Tuffa Mohamed and Jeremy Wilkinson were significantly
12 intoxicated?
13 Detective Rico Beniga: Yes.
14 Brian Davidson: Okay. So these people were all interviewed as part of your
15 investigation.
16 Detective Rico Beniga: Correct.
17 Brian Davidson: And you examined the scene, uh, and also video that was captured.
18 Um, you had mentioned the body-worn cameras. Um, did, were
19 those seized from the officers at that time?
20 Detective Rico Beniga: They were. Uh, during that, uh, processing and documentation we
21 seized the uh, both body-worn cameras from each of the officers.
22 Brian Davidson: And were the officers allowed to view the body-worn camera
23 footage?
24 Detective Rico Beniga: No.
25 Brian Davidson: Uh, and you, but you did get body-worn camera footage.
26 Detective Rico Beniga: Yes.
70 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: Okay. So after interviewing all these witnesses and reviewing all the
2 footage, um, do you have an understanding of kind of how the
3 evening progress uh, that resulted in this officer use of deadly force?
4 Detective Rico Beniga: Yes.
5 Brian Davidson: Okay. Would you mind walking us through your, what the
6 conclusions of your investigation were.
7 Detective Rico Beniga: Okay. So we had learned, uh, via some statements from
8 Mr. Wilkinson, uh, Mr. Pratt, that they had initially planned to get
9 together because they had al, it was the championship game of the
10 Oregon State Beaver's baseball team that evening, or that afternoon.
11 So they got together, they met uh, initially at the Cheerful Tortoise,
12 um, stayed there for a short brief of time.
13 Brian Davidson: And who's, uh, who's in this group?
14 Detective Rico Beniga: Uh, it would be, uh, Mr. Pratt, Mr. Wilkinson and the deceased
15 Mr. Washington.
16 Brian Davidson: And, uh, they're apparently friends or acquaintances.
17 Detective Rico Beniga: Yes. Uh, we learned that Mr. Wilkinson and, um, Mr., uh,
18 Washington have been long-time friends uh, since high school. Uh,
19 both were in the military, the Navy, uh, at some point together. And
20 so, and Mr. Pratt was, I believe a friend from the Navy, the time,
21 their time in the Navy.
22 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. They weren't, uh, active duty at this time. They were –
23 Detective Rico Beniga: No.
24 Brian Davidson: – retired Navy. Is that correct?
25 Detective Rico Beniga: Correct.
26 Brian Davidson: Okay. So you learned that they first arrived together to, uh,
27 eventually watch the game in Downtown Portland. Well, what time
71 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 did they all arrive downtown? You said they first met at the Cheerful
2 Tortoise?
3 Detective Rico Beniga: Correct.
4 Brian Davidson: What time was approximately?
5 Detective Rico Beniga: It was early afternoons. Uh, that was based, based on Mr. Wilkinson.
6 They he said that he and Mr. Pratt had taken an Uber from his home,
7 uh, in Tigard, I believe, uh, went to the Cheerful Tortoise. Uh, I
8 think the records indicate it was early afternoon. It was 1, 1:30 or so.
9 Uh, Mr. Washington joined them. Uh, he didn't live too far from, uh,
10 the Cheerful Tortoise and so
11 he joined them there. Uh, they stayed there for a short period of time, I believe, uh, they had a
12 drink or two there. Then from there they moved to Buffalo Wild
13 Wings, uh, restaurant, uh, downtown. Um, we learned that while
14 there, uh, there was, uh, news media coverage of the party, the watch
15 party that was going on for the –
16 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
17 Detective Rico Beniga: –Beavers. Uh, and that Mr. Washington was actually interviewed by
18 uh KATU News. And this is a clip of that. I can play it.
19 Brian Davidson: Yes.
20 Other Speaker: ***** today. Right? Uh, the OSU Beavers are one win away from
21 the national championship ****
22 Officer Rico Beniga: Fast forward.
23 Other Speaker: the final out.
24 Other Speaker: Joe Becker is there live with an update on the game. Hey Joe.
25 Other Speaker: Well Win **** first of all I'm having' a blast down here at Buffalo
26 Wild Wings. We've got a half a dozen big screen TVs **** –
72 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Detective Rico Beniga: That is Mr. Washington, uh, depicted here. That's Mr. Pratt in the
2 orange hat, I'm pretty sure. Mr. Washington's wearing a, it's an olive
3 gray shirt.And that’s Mr. Wilkinson wearing a, like a royal blue-
4 colored tee shirt.
5 Other Speaker: **** a lot of Beaver fans. You know we've got a Jason Ryan and
6 Jeremy Wright here at the table here, big Beaver fans.
7 Other Speaker: Let's go baby. You got this. You got it. You got it.
8 Other Speaker: Beaver's are off to a 2 nothing lead in the second inning. Jason Lee
9 picks ****.
10 Other Speaker: Oh, the game is great. We're gonna take it this year, and bein' in,
11 bein' in this atmosphere is just great. I love it. Havin' a great time.
12 Other Speaker: You know with the Beavers comin' back last night with the three
13 runs in the ninth inning, got that huge win 5 to 3, I mean, it really
14 doesn't get much better for a fan does it?
15 Other Speaker: Oh no. That, that was, um, I was blown away. And I mean this is the
16 best time ever. And now we're here, all this great atmosphere they're
17 having a ****. They'll be champions tonight, **** reigning
18 champions all right.
19 Other Speaker: Jason, great job. Thanks.
20 Other Speaker: There you have it. It's ****.
21 Brian Davidson: Do you know how long they were at the, um, at the Buffalo Wild
22 Wings?
23 Detective Rico Beniga: It was, uh, nearing 7:00 because, uh, video surveillance we learned
24 that from the Buffalo Wild Wings restaurant they went to a pool
25 room called the Rialto Pool Room, uh, which is a, a short distance
26 away. And video surveil, surveillance has them arriving about
27 7:10 p.m., um, at the Rialto.
73 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: At the Rialto, okay. And do you have a, do you know how much, uh,
2 alcoholic beverages they drank at the Buffalo Wild Wings?
3 Detective Rico Beniga: No.
4 Brian Davidson: Okay. All right. Ah, you had mentioned some surveillance, uh, that
5 you, and also you know from speaking with witnesses they then
6 moved to the Rialto. Is that right?
7 Detective Rico Beniga: Correct.
8 Brian Davidson: The three of them. Now, um, from that conversation and for this
9 video, um, and from reviewing the video, do you know what
10 transpired and how long they were at the Rialto?
11 Detective Rico Beniga: They were there, uh, for approximately 3 hours. Uh, shortly before
12 leaving about 10:10 p.m., um, Mr. Wilkins, Wilkinson gets into a
13 confrontation with a security personnel. Uh, he gets shoved down by
14 security officer. When he stands up you see that the, uh, he's got, uh,
15 his holster with firearm on his right hip area. Um, shortly after that
16 they're both, they're all uh, ejected from the Rialto Room, um, right
17 about 10 after 10. So, they were there for uh, about 3 hours.
18 Brian Davidson: I'll actually kinda need to take that from you for just a moment.
19 What? Looks like we're having some problem with this video, but,
20 uh, detective, you said you, you've reviewed the video surveillance.
21 Detective Rico Beniga: I did.
22 Brian Davidson: And you observed in that video surveillance what you just described
23 to us?
24 Detective Rico Beniga: Yes. ****.
25 Brian Davidson: Okay.
26 Other Speaker: ****
74 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: You can. I’ve had some previous trouble with this. Um, actually let's
2 just go off the record for a moment if we could.
3 Brian Davidson: So we're back on the record, um, we're having technical difficulties
4 with the Rialto video, so we're not gonna play it right now. We'll, uh,
5 we'll try to get it, um, up and running again, uh maybe in the
6 afternoon. Um, all right. Um, give this back to you detective. And,
7 uh, so you, they left the Rialto about what time again?
8 Detective Rico Beniga: Uh, about 10 minutes after 10.
9 Brian Davidson: Okay.
10 Detective Rico Beniga: P.m.
11 Brian Davidson: And, uh, where are these locations in relation to each other? Maybe
12 you can tell us real quick.
13 Detective Rico Beniga: I think Rialto's, uh, kinda like Third and Washington. Um, I don't
14 have an exact addresses. Rialto's, uh, ff, 411 Southwest Alder Street
15 and Buffalo Wild Wings restaurant is ah, 327 Southwest Morrison,
16 so.
17 Brian Davidson: And the Cheerful Tortoise?
18 Detective Rico Beniga: The Cheerful Tortoise is, uh, 600, uh, Southwest College is the
19 address, um.
20 Brian Davidson: Okay. Within walking distance of each other essentially?
21 Detective Rico Beniga: Yes.
22 Brian Davidson: All right. So do you know where the, uh, Mr. Wilkinson,
23 Mr. Washington and Mr. Pratt went after leaving, uh, the Rialto?
24 Detective Rico Beniga: Uh, information, uh, indicates they went back to, uh, the Cheerful
25 Tortoise, um, and continued to have drinks there.
26 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. All right. And, uh, was there at some point some
27 disturbance between, uh, the group comprised of Mr. Washington,
75 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Mr. Pratt and Mr. Wilkinson and another group of patrons at the
2 Cheerful Tortoise?
3 Detective Rico Beniga: Yes.
4 Brian Davidson: Will you walk us through what your understanding of that is.
5 Detective Rico Beniga: At some point during the evening, um, there was a, a, an allegation
6 that the "N" word was thrown at, uh, Mr. Tuffa's group, or those, his
7 friends, um. And I guess Mr. Wilkinson was identified as a person
8 that had uh, used that term, or, or used, uh, thrown that term out at,
9 uh, Mr. Tuffa's group. And that's the information we got was that
10 that was the, the sort of, the reason for the arguing that was ah
11 continuing.
12 Brian Davidson: And Mr. Tuffa's group, uh, uh, who was, again remind us, who was
13 kind of in that, associated with that group?
14 Detective Rico Beniga: Well the best information was, uh, Mr. Tuffa, uh, Zack Walker, um,
15 and at some point Mr. Dean, uh, joined in.
16 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. And Mr. uh, Tuffa Mohamed and, um, Mr. Zack Walker
17 are both African-American. Is that right?
18 Detective Rico Beniga: Correct.
19 Brian Davidson: Okay. So what happened, uh, eh, after that kinda word was thrown
20 out there?
21 Detective Rico Beniga: So there's this, uh, eh, argument ensues. Uh, these guys get
22 separated, uh, at some point through –
23 Brian Davidson: Is this inside the bar?
24 Detective Rico Beniga: That was the information we got. There was a, a, initially started in
25 the bar, then it carried outside. Um, this sort of argument kind of
26 roved to different areas of the intersection and throughout, and –
27 Brian Davidson: Which intersection are we talkin' about?
76 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Detective Rico Beniga: Southwest 6th and College. Uh, at some point Mr. uh, Wilkinson and
2 Mr. Washington they go from the Cheerful Tortoise to the northeast
3 corner of the intersection. Uh, and then they are followed by several
4 individuals, and then they are later depicted going back into the
5 Tortoise. Uh, and the video shows them reappearing, uh, minutes
6 later, uh, at the southwest corner in front of Mak’s Market. Um, and
7 it's clear, evident throughout that, uh, Mr. Washington is, is holding
8 back where at some points intervenes and prevents Mr. Wilkinson
9 from approaching, uh, the opposing group so to speak.
10 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. All right.
11 Detective Rico Beniga: Uh.
12 Brian Davidson: And a lot of that is captured on various video tapes. Is that right?
13 Detective Rico Beniga: That's correct.
14 Brian Davidson: Um, now, is there video surveillance in the Cheerful Tortoise itself?
15 Detective Rico Beniga: There was, but we weren't able to acquire it. It had been rewritten,
16 uh, by the time that, uh, our tech person had gotten to it.
17 Brian Davidson: Okay. Uh, so we've got a slide up here that says 911 call from the
18 Cheerful Tortoise. And I, I'll actually do this just a minute. That'll be
19 in, it's caused my PowerPoint to crash on numerous occasions. I'm
20 bein' real careful with it, but, so 911 was, 1 call came out from
21 Cheerful Tortoise to where?
22 Detective Rico Beniga: To our 911 dispatch center.
23 Brian Davidson: This is the recording of that.
24 Other Speaker: **** 911 ****.
25 Other Speaker: I'm at, I'm at the Cheerful Tortoise. At the corner of 6th and College
26 and there's somebody outside with a gun.
27 Other Speaker: Okay, uh, did you hear this or see it?
77 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Other Speaker: Uh, no, uh, there was like a fight that broke out **** and then people
2 came back with a gun.
3 Other Speaker: Okay. And you, and you, uh, the gun, what'd he look like.
4 Other Speaker: ****. I knew that multiple people come in and saw it, and told me,
5 tell me that there was a gun.
6 Other Speaker: Okay. So no description at all?
7 Other Speaker: Um, uh, the, uh, right now that's **** a bald guy with a green shirt
8 and khaki pants, and then, uh, another guy with a blue shirt and
9 white pants.
10 Other Speaker: Do you know which one has the gun?
11 Other Speaker: **** blasted the **** in the head.
12 Other Speaker: Do you know which one has the gun?
13 Other Speaker: Uh, I don't. It's one of them.
14 Other Speaker: Okay. Are they both White guys?
15 Other Speaker: Um, yeah. They're both White guys.
16 Other Speaker: The guy with the blue shirt, what color are his shorts or pants?
17 Other Speaker: Uh, white, white shorts.
18 Other Speaker: Okay. What's your name please?
19 Other Speaker: Michelle.
20 Other Speaker: Michelle, you do work there?
21 Other Speaker: Yes.
22 Other Speaker: What's the phone number for ya?
23 Other Speaker: Uh, 503-717-2674 .
24 Other Speaker: All right. We’re on the way. Thanks.
25 Brian Davidson: Now this was made to PPB dispatch. Correct?
26 Detective Rico Beniga: Correct.
78 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: Now did they, did PPB actually get an opportunity to dispatch
2 officers to this?
3 Detective Rico Beniga: No because of the, uh, PSU officers had arrived on scene, um, and
4 then became engaged with this argument that was going on, uh, on
5 the south sidewalk of, uh, College.
6 Brian Davidson: Okay. So this call actually came out shortly before PSU officers just
7 happened upon the, the melee.
8 Detective Rico Beniga: That’s correct.
9 Brian Davidson: Okay. And what do we have here?
10 Detective Rico Beniga: This is audio of Officer McKenzie, uh, notifying his dispatch,
11 Portland State University Police Dispatch, uh, about what they're,
12 uh, come across.
13 Other Speaker: **** Oregon ****,uh, ****.
14 Other Speaker: Copy ****.
15 Other Speaker: Yeah, 411, hang on a sec.
16 Brian Davidson: So it's a little difficult to hear. So I'm gonna play it again. The jack
17 hammering outside the window's not helping.
18 Detective Rico Beniga: Mm mm.
19 Other Speaker: **** Oregon ****, uh, ****.
20 Other Speaker: Copy ****?
21 Other Speaker: Yeah, 411, hang on a sec.
22 Brian Davidson: So it's a little difficult to hear, but, uh, detective you've listened to
23 this multiple times. What is, what do you hear him saying?
24 Detective Rico Beniga: He announces that they're gonna be, they're out on a fight that's
25 occurring on Broadway. Um, and then the second transmission he's
26 asking to get Portland, uh, police, uh, start heading their way.
79 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: And, uh, what was that about? Why would he be asking for
2 additional units?
3 Detective Rico Beniga: Uh, probably because of the number of individuals involved, um,
4 sort of, uh, roving argument, so, more units to assist.
5 Brian Davidson: mm hmm. Are you aware of whether or not, um, PSU internally has
6 any back-up officers at that time of night?
7 Detective Rico Beniga: I believe on that night they were the only two officers working.
8 Brian Davidson: All right. So what do we have here?
9 Detective Rico Beniga: This is the second, uh, transmission, uh that Officer McKenzie
10 makes to his, uh, Portland State Dispatch.
11 Other Speaker: 12 7. We need assistance Code 3 cover now.
12 Other Speaker: **** 130. So you're needing one person?
13 Brian Davidson: Um, detective, what does Code 3 cover mean?
14 Detective Rico Beniga: That's an urgent request, uh, when an officer requests Code 3 cover
15 and then, uh, it tells all the other officers that, uh, they need to step it
16 up and, and hurry to get there.
17 Brian Davidson: And do you know what the timing was of this call in relation to the
18 shooting?
19 Detective Rico Beniga: This? This call?
20 Brian Davidson: Yeah.
21 Detective Rico Beniga: This call, uh, when you compare it with the body-worn camera, uh,
22 this second transmission is made just moments after the shots had
23 been fired.
24 Brian Davidson: All right. So this says Keyaira Keyaira Smith's cell phone video.
25 What do you, what, you mentioned Keyaira Keyaira Smith earlier,
26 um, what were you, seized from her in the way of, of cell phone
27 video?
80 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Detective Rico Beniga: She, uh, was contacted by officers and later interviewed by
2 detectives and she volunteered uh, to provide the video that she shot
3 of that evening, uh, the events that were occurring prior to the
4 shooting.
5 Brian Davidson: Okay. So my understanding is the first thing we are going to look at
6 is some stills that identify kind of the people in the, in altercation.
7 What, can you tell us what we’re looking at here?
8 Detective Rico Beniga: So in the foreground in the blue shirt and light colored shorts is
9 Mr. Wilkinson. Um, behind him is Mr. Tuffa. Uh, Mr. Tuffa in that
10 photo is holding up his cell phone to the face of Mr. Washington.
11 Here's a photo of employee, uh, Donald Dietz, Cheerful Tortoise
12 employee, uh, Ryan Pratt, a friend of the, of Mr. Washington. And in
13 the foreground there is Mr. Patrick Dean.
14 Brian Davidson: And these are all still taken from Keyaira Keyaira Smith's video. Is
15 that right?
16 Detective Rico Beniga: Yes. Another still depicting, uh, the individuals who were present. In
17 the foreground is, uh, Mr. Zack Walker. Uh, in the rev, video he is
18 referred to by Keyaira Keyaira Smith as YT. Uh, that's his nickname.
19 Um, in front of him is Patrick Dean. To the right there is Ryan Pratt.
20 Um, again, Mr. Donald Dietz, um, and then Jason Washington
21 holding back and turning, uh, uh, holding back Mr. Wilkinson. This
22 is a, up close, uh, Mr. Dean, Mr. Washington and, and
23 Officer Dewey. Um, Jeremy Wilkinson's on the back and then
24 Mr. Tuffa on the right. This is a close-up photo of Mr. Dean and
25 Mr. Washington and clearly visible on the right pocket o, uh,
26 Mr. Washington's, uh, shorts is the uh, Walther PPQ hand gun. It's in
27 his holster.
81 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: And to the right?
2 Detective Rico Beniga: To the right is, uh, WT or Mr. Zack Walker.
3 Brian Davidson: Okay. So my understanding is we have two videos from Keyaira
4 Keyaira Smith. Is that right?
5 Detective Rico Beniga: I believe there was, yes.
6 Brian Davidson: And what's the first one of? It's –
7 Detective Rico Beniga: So the first one, uh, as I mentioned before that, uh, Mr. uh,
8 Washington and Mr. Wilkinson they moved from the Cheerful
9 Tortoise to the northeast corner of the intersection and which they're
10 followed by a number of individuals. And this is, uh, this is picked
11 up by Tri Met video camera that looks northward along 6th there
12 towards the intersection. Um, and then we have this video sort of
13 corroborating that. And this starts off at the northeast corner of 6th
14 and College, and Ms. Keyaira Smith is filming it. The arguing is
15 continuing, and then you'll see Mr. uh, Washington and
16 Mr. Wilkinson cross the street to go back to the Cheerful Tortoise.
17 Other Speakers: ****
18 Brian Davidson: All right. And what is the second video we're gonna watch here?
19 Detective Rico Beniga: The second video, uh, starts off right at the corner in front of Mak’s
20 Market which is the southwest corner of 6th and College. Uh, again,
21 it depicts the, uh, continuing arguing as it moves west along the
22 south sidewalk, uh, to the moments just prior to the shooting.
23 Brian Davidson: I'm sorry.
24 Other Speaker: It.
25 Other Speaker: I was .
26 Other Speaker: Where you ****?
27 Other Speaker: I was.
82 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Other Speaker: ****. ****.
2 Other Speaker: Fuck you and your ****.
3 Other Speaker: **** would ****.
4 Other Speaker: No. You would –
5 Other Speaker: ****.
6 Other Speaker: Did you ****. You ****.
7 Other Speaker: Hey Tuffa, Tuffa.
8 Other Speaker: No. Don't.
9 Other Speaker: ****.
10 Other Speakers: **** .
11 Other Speaker: What **** don't antagonize him
12 Other Speaker: **** fuck ****.
13 Other Speaker: You wanna feel somethin' ****.
14 Other Speaker: **** fuck you ****. I'm ****
15 Other Speakers: ****.
16 Other Speaker: Patrick, Patrick, YT. Hey come one. Hey, it's okay. Come on. ****
17 direction.
18 Other Speaker: No. That **** mother fucker.
19 Other Speaker: YT, YT, mother fucker's gonna **** someone. You don't need ****.
20 Other Speakers: ****.
21 Other Speaker: **** bitch. You're a little bitch. Bitch, bitch, bitch.
22 Other Speaker: Patrick.
23 Other Speaker: You're in the wrong bitch.
24 Other Speaker: Wait, wait, waaaait.
25 Other Speaker: Bitch, bitch, bitch.
26 Other Speaker: Hey.
27 Other Speaker: Cut the **** bitch.
83 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Other speakers:
2 Other Speaker: YT. YT. Aye, aye, aye. Oh.
3 Other Speaker: ****.
4 Other Speaker: ****, back up, back up.
5 Other Speakers: ****
6 Other Speaker: ****
7 Other Speaker: Oh he threw his phone.
8 Other Speaker: Aye, aye.
9 Other Speaker: ****
10 Other Speaker: ****. Forget, aye, aye, aye.
11 Other Speaker: Aye come on brother.
12 Other Speaker: Everybody get the fuck back. Get back.
13 Other Speaker: ****
14 Other Speaker: You don't get back.
15 Other Speaker: ****.
16 Other Speaker: Drop the gun. Drop the gun.
17 Other Speaker: ****
18 Brian Davidson: And is that the end of the video?
19 Detective Rico Beniga: Yeah.
20 Brian Davidson: Okay. So Keyaira Smith's video doesn't actually capture the actual
21 shooting. Is that accurate?
22 Detective Rico Beniga: Yes.
23 Brian Davidson: All right. It says Tri Met Security camera.
24 Tell us about what we’re going to see.
25 Detective Rico Beniga: That was at, I mentioned that, uh, this camera faces north towards
26 the intersection. It's on the east side of, uh, Southwest 6th just south
27 of the intersection. Uh, it's on a platform the photos are, or the video
84 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 is grainy because of the distance and the, and the lighting, uh, during
2 the night. But based on their, the, the clothing descriptions, uh,
3 you're able to discern who's who uh and the movement that, uh,
4 Brian Davidson: Can you, uh, maybe, uh, orient us here?
5 Detective Rico Beniga: So the, the, uh, lighted door there on the upper, towards the upper
6 left is the Cheerful Tortoise. Uh, that's the, uh, northwest corner of
7 the intersection.
8 Brian Davidson: Can you ah, we need to fast forward to the relevant time frame here.
9 Detective Rico Beniga: Let's see here. So starting at 1:05:36, uh, Mr. Wilkinson and
10 Washington they, they exit Cheerful Tortoise, and they sort of
11 remain on that sidewalk entrance, uh, area. Actually if you want to
12 go to 1:11:25 that's where they cross Southwest 6 moving from the
13 northwest corner to the northeast corner.
14 Brian Davidson: Actually it’s a little difficult to tell what the, uh, counter is because
15 the pause button's right in front of it.
16 Other Speaker: ****.
17 Brian Davidson: Okay. There we go. So you want me to go to –
18 Detective Rico Beniga: 1:11, uh, let's say 20. You'll see them move from left to right on the
19 screen. There's mab-, Mr. Wilkinson in a white, light-colored shorts,
20 and the, uh, blue shirt, Mr. Washington.
21 Brian Davidson: What's the next thing we're gonna see?
22 Detective Rico Beniga: Um, at 1:14:57, uh, Wilkinson crosses 6th Avenue from the northeast
23 corner back to the northwest, uh, and to continue to linger in front of
24 the Cheerful Tortoise, uh, still in the immediate vicinity of other
25 folks that are out there. Um, so it continues on for several minutes
26 and then now –
27 Brian Davidson: Do you see the other, um, members of the other group in this angle?
85 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Detective Rico Beniga: You see them and you can sort of maybe surmise who they are, but
2 they're just, uh, it's too grainy.
3 Brian Davidson: Okay. All right. Well, we'll move on with this then. Um, Mak’s Mini
4 Mart security camera? ****.
5 Detective Rico Beniga: That's the, uh, market that's located on the southwest corner, um, of,
6 uh, 6th and College. Their camera view actually looks along the
7 sidewalk towards Broadway.
8 Brian Davidson: So which direction is this camera pointing?
9 Detective Rico Beniga: That's looking west.
10 Brian Davidson: It's, that's **** relative ****.
11 Detective Rico Beniga: Please go to about 1:28 I believe. 1:25, 1:25:13 is you'll see, uh,
12 Wilkinson and Mr. Washington walking east, uh, towards, uh, the
13 intersection of Southwest College, um, and 6th Avenue. That was
14 them depicted. At 1:28, uh, if you go to 1:20:25 you'll sort of see the
15 progression of people on the sidewalk area. Mr. Washington trying
16 to move, keep others at bay. He pulls Mr. Wilkinson away. That’s
17 Keyaira Smith tryin' to pull Mr. Dean away or trying to intervene.
18 This is the, uh, headlights arriving as the Portland State marked
19 patrol car. Moments later you'll see everybody started running east,
20 uh, along the sidewalk.
21 Brian Davidson: This view does not capture the actual shooting itself though it is that
22 Right?
23 Detective Rico Beniga: No. It's just off frame, uh, to the west.
24 Brian Davidson: So the shooting's already occurred or –
25 Detective Rico Beniga: Shooting’s occurred.
26 Brian Davidson: Uh, all right. So, um, you've got Officer Dewey's body-worn camera
27 video, um, which, um, we've already seen. Um, so I don't know if
86 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 we're gonna play that right now, but we will go ahead and, um, – so,
2 uh, there was some work done to brighten certain aspects of the
3 video to make it a little more depictable. So that's, I think, what we're
4 gonna watch next. Correct?
5 Detective Rico Beniga: Okay.
6 Other Speaker: Hey, police. Hey.
7 Other Speaker: **** –
8 Other Speaker: Back up, back up.
9 Other Speaker: **** –
10 Other Speaker: He pulled a gun on us. He pulled a gun. He pulled a gun.
11 Other Speaker: come on –
12 Other Speaker: Hey, –
13 Other Speaker: ****.
14 Other Speaker: Hey. Hey. Hey, all you guys.
15 Other Speaker: Hey, hey, hey.
16 Other Speaker: Hey, sir, sir, you gotta back up.
17 Other Speaker: **** get the fuck back. **** get back –
18 Other Speaker: He's got a gun.
19 Other Speaker: **** –
20 Other Speaker: Stop, stop, stop. Drop the gun. Drop the gun.
21 Other Speaker: Stop –
22 Other Speaker: I will shoot you–
23 Other Speaker: Fuck.
24 Other Speaker: No. dude come on.
25 Other Speaker: Get out of here. Get out of here sir. Get out of here.
26 Other Speaker: No.
87 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: I think, uh, one thing we should actually cover, now that I think
2 about it, in regards to the longer form video is that, it's my
3 understanding that at some point while, um, Officer Dewey's sitting
4 in the PPB control op, PPB patrol vehicle after the shooting, he's
5 been sequestered away from his partner that he makes some
6 spontaneous statement about, um, Mr. Washington having pointed
7 the gun at them.
8 Detective Rico Beniga: Yes.
9 Brian Davidson: Do you know when that occurs in the video?
10 Detective Rico Beniga: About 1:48:35.
11 Brian Davidson: At 1:48:35, yeah, uh, –
12 Detective Rico Beniga: I –
13 Brian Davidson: – the uh, time stamp on this camera of, ss, the –
14 Detective Rico Beniga: So –
15 Brian Davidson: – Mak’sx Mart video, Can you tell us, but that doesn't obviously
16 match the actual time. Can you tell us about –
17 Detective Rico Beniga: It's a 7-hour difference. Um, the, uh, GMT time see minus 7 hours
18 and so –
19 Brian Davidson: So the Axon cameras are actually set to Greenwich Mean Time?
20 Detective Rico Beniga: Right.
21 Brian Davidson: Okay. So, um, what time am I looking for here?
22 Detective Rico Beniga: So you are looking for, uh, –
23 Other Speaker: – just like 184.
24 Detective Rico Beniga: 08:48.
25 Other Speaker: ****.
26 Other Speaker: Yeah.
27 Detective Rico Beniga: 48:35.
88 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Other Speaker: ****. Um, –
2 Detective Rico Beniga: Uh, back a little bit, 35.
3 Brian Davidson: Oh, 8:40 –
4 Detective Rico Beniga: 40, 48:35. Oh okay.
5 Brian Davidson: Oh. Did I miss it?
6 Other Speaker: ****.
7 Detective Rico Beniga: Sorry, I thought I was.
8 Other Speaker: **** we're gonna ****.
9 Brian Davidson: I'm sorry.
10 Detective Rico Beniga: **** it was –
11 Brian Davidson: ****. 08:48?
12 Detective Rico Beniga: Yeah. 48:35.
13 Other Speaker: ****.
14 Other Speaker: **** and those wanted ta –
15 Other Speaker: ****
16 Other Speaker: Yeah.
17 Other Speaker: –Know where you’re going to go and.
18 Other Speaker: Those two guys walking right there.
19 Other Speaker: Yeah. ****
20 Brian Davidson: Who we hearing talking to right now?
21 Detective Rico Beniga: So, it's, uh, Officer Dewey and Officer Hoskins, uh, Portland police
22 officer. Uh, he's just accompanying, um, Officer Dewey.
23 Other Speaker: So, um, they want to know how he was in an argument. They want to
24 move on to the **** officer. Then, uh, he can **** whole time. So,
25 it's, –
26 Other Speaker: Yeah.
27 Other Speaker: – it's a long process, but ****.
89 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Other Speaker: Yeah.
2 Other Speaker: And then they usually like times they go over there.
3 Other Speaker: The **** guy **** cops. If I –
4 Brian Davidson: That was Officer Dewey.
5 Detective Rico Beniga: Yeah.
6 Brian Davidson: Okay
7 Other Speaker: ****.
8 Brian Davidson: Oh, yep.Yeah
9 Other Speaker: Do you guys have a ****?
10 Other Speaker: Those two guys walkin right there.
11 Other Speaker: Yeah. And then, uh, let you know ****, you know it's ****.
12 Other Speaker: Huh.
13 Other Speaker: So, um, they wanna know why he's, you're not, I mean **** you've
14 been involved in two ****. **** signs up whole time.
15 Other Speaker: Yeah.
16 Other Speaker: So, it's, it's a long process ****.
17 Other Speaker: Yeah.
18 Other Speaker: And then they you to let time to take over.
19 Other Speaker: Who the fuck points a gun at cops in a fight?
20 Brian Davidson: Were you able to hear it that time?
21 Other Speaker: Yeah.
22 Brian Davidson: Guys, we’re um, wh, are we at um, we’re at 1:00, let’s ah, go off ,
23 let’s go off the record for a moment. Uh, we were off the record for a
24 brief break, but we're back on the record, uh, and I think we were,
25 let's see where we are. Uh, and so we are now going to, uh,
26 Officer Dewey's body-worn camera video. Which I don't think we've
27 seen that. Er, I'm sorry, –
90 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Detective Rico Beniga: Mmm.
2 Brian Davidson: –Officer McKenzie's body-worn camera thank you. This is, uh, my
3 understanding detective's, uh, Officer McKenzie's body-worn camera
4 video. Is that right?
5 Detective Rico Beniga: Yes.
6 Brian Davidson: Let's see that’s way too loud.
7 Detective Rico Beniga: So the audio doesn't start until he exits the car.
8 Other Speaker: **** back, back. Get the fuck back. Back, back. Get back.
9 Other Speaker: If you don't get back. ****.
10 Other Speaker: ****.
11 Other Speaker: Stop, stop, stop. Drop the gun. Drop the gun.
12 Other Speaker: Fuck.
13 Other Speaker: Oh, dude come on.
14 Other Speaker: Get out of here, get out of here, sir, get out of here. Sir, get out of
15 here. Move away.
16 Other Speaker: PSU3 on central. We have shots fired, shots fired
17 Other Speaker: ****
18 Other Speaker: Please get away, please get away.
19 Other Speaker: Yo, officer, yo, are you an officer?
20 Other Speaker: – Hey,
21 Other Speaker: Get away
22 Other Speaker: ****
23 Other Speaker: Get him away please.
24 Other Speaker: Sit down. Please sit down.
25 Other Speaker: **** –
26 Other Speaker: Get on the ground.
91 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Other Speaker: - blocked off on Southwest College. As many units as we can get
2 please.
3 Other Speaker: Sir
4 Other Speaker: ****.
5 Other Speaker: You in the **** shirt, do not move.
6 Other Speaker: ****, not my fault, not my fault bro,
7 Other Speaker: ****
8 Other Speaker: Not my fault bro.
9 Other Speaker: ****
10 Other Speaker: Hey, yo ****.
11 Other Speaker: They shoot him, they shot him.
12 Other Speaker: Stop.
13 Other Speaker: Back up.
14 Other Speaker: Do not move.
15 Other Speaker: ****.
16 Other Speaker: ****
17 Other Speaker: Officer, officer, officer, officer, officer, officer.
18 Other Speaker: Officer, yo officer ****.
19 Other Speaker: ****
20 Other Speaker: Do not move.
21 Other Speaker: Get down.
22 Other Speaker: Sit down sir.
23 Other Speaker: Sit down sir.
24 Other Speaker: Sit down.
25 Other Speaker: ****
26 Other Speaker: Sit down.
27 Other Speaker: ****
92 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Other Speaker: Sit down.
2 Other Speaker: ****
3 Other Speaker: You just shot him bitch.
4 Other Speaker: ****
5 Other Speaker: Get away.
6 Other Speaker: **** boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom,
7 boom, boom, boom.
8 Other Speaker: ****
9 Other Speaker: ****
10 Other Speaker: ****
11 Other Speaker: ****
12 Other Speaker: You killed him. You killed **** –
13 Other Speaker: – concealed weapon,
14 Other Speaker: *** you killed a man with a concealed weapon, and you're done,
15 bitch.
16 Other Speaker: Back up, Back up, guys. All you guys back up.
17 Other Speaker: What are you ganna do, shoot me –
18 Other Speaker: ****.
19 Other Speaker: Shoot me–
20 Other Speaker: ****
21 Other Speaker: Shot me bitch
22 Other Speaker: Shoot you bitch
23 Other Speaker: ****
24 Other Speaker: Back up.
25 Other Speaker: ****
26 Other Speaker: Hey back up, back up guys.
27 Other Speaker: ****–
93 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Other Speaker: Back up ****.
2 Other Speaker: Bro, you killed him.
3 Other Speaker: Back up.
4 Other Speaker: You killed him.
5 Other Speaker: Back up, back up.
6 Other Speaker: ****
7 Other Speaker: He's dead.
8 Other Speaker: ****
9 Other Speaker: Sir sit down,
10 Other Speaker: ****
11 Other Speaker: Sir sit down, sit down sir, sir sit down, sit down, sit down.
12 Other Speaker: You killed him.
13 Other Speaker: Please sit down, sit down.
14 Other Speaker: There’s a gun right there.
15 Other Speaker: ****
16 Other Speaker: ****
17 Other Speaker: ****
18 Other Speaker: ****
19 Other Speaker: **** go you covered.
20 Other Speaker: ****
21 Other Speaker: ****
22 Other Speaker: ****
23 Other Speaker: ****
24 Other Speaker: ****
25 Other Speaker: ****
26 Other Speaker: ****
27 Other Speaker: ****
94 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Other Speaker: ****gun, there’s a gun somewhere in here.
2 Other Speaker: ****
3 Other Speaker: ****
4 Other Speaker: ****
5 Other Speaker: ****
6 Other Speaker: ****
7 Other Speaker: ****
8 Other Speaker: ****
9 Other Speaker: ****
10 Brian Davidson: I'm gonna pause it there. It's, uh, kind of the same as Dewey's, aft-,
11 after this point. Um, so Detective, um, you’d mentioned, I think,
12 Officer Shaw had been mentioned by you, PPB Officer Shaw, is he
13 in this imaged that we just watched?
14 Detective Rico Beniga: Yes. He was the one that picked up the gun, and then secured it in
15 the trunk of the vehicle that’s in the background.
16 Brian Davidson: Okay. Uh, now I think it's, uh, also my understanding from your
17 reports that, uh, at some point in this video, um, Officer McKenzie
18 also makes kind of a spontaneous statement about, um,
19 Mr. Washington pointing a gun at them. Is that right?
20 Detective Rico Beniga: Correct.
21 Brian Davidson: What's the timing contact, text of that?
22 Detective Rico Beniga: Uh, he was, uh, Officer McKenzie's advising his, uh, Sergeant, uh,
23 Joe Schilling, a Portland State University police sar-, sergeant. Um,
24 and he says that Washington was armed with a gun and pointed it in
25 their direction.
26 Brian Davidson: And is that in person that he's speaking with Sergeant Schilling or
27 over the phone?
95 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Detective Rico Beniga: Over the phone.
2 Brian Davidson: And what time in the video was that?
3 Detective Rico Beniga: That would be, uh, 46:08.
4 Brian Davidson: 8:46:08?
5 Detective Rico Beniga: Yeah. That's –
6 Other Speaker: ****.
7 Other Speaker: Hey Serg. Uh, it's a officer-involved shooting ****. Uh, Portland's
8 here, and **** whole thing. Uh, we shot the other guy ****. Uh, we
9 don't who ****, who he is yet sir. Uh, yes.
10 Other Speaker: He's gonna be up **** see ****.
11 Other Speaker: My ****.
12 Other Speaker: ****
13 Other Speaker: Yes. I know. I know. Um, he ha, he had a gun, uh, pulled it out and
14 pointed it at us.
15 Brian Davidson: Were you all able to hear that?
16 Other Speaker: Yeah.
17 Brian Davidson: Okay. Okay. And I think similar to Officer Dewey we have a, a,
18 attempt to lighten this a little bit. So we'll go ahead and watch this
19 lightened version of that one small clip. Hold on. That's not right.
20 ****. Oh, that’s right.
21 Other Speaker: Back, back, get the fuck back. Get back.
22 Other Speaker: ****
23 Other Speaker: Get back.
24 Other Speaker: ****.
25 Other Speaker: Drop the gun. Drop the gun.
26 Other Speaker: ****
27 Other Speaker: **** fucking gun.
96 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Other Speaker: Fuck.
2 Other Speaker: Oh, dude come on.
3 Other Speaker: Get outta here. Get outta here sir. Get out of here.
4 Brian Davidson: And I think that concludes uh, our Power Point presentation. Um,
5 detective, uh, it’s my understanding that you um, bring the lights
6 back up, actually brought the, um, PPQ Walther gun firearm that was
7 recovered from the scene?
8 Detective Rico Beniga: I did.
9 Brian Davidson: Okay, would you actually show us that gun? Now were all the
10 firearms, including this one and the ones seized from the police
11 officers, uh, what was done with those firearms and all the, like,
12 ballistic, forensic evidence in the case?
13 Detective Rico Beniga: Uh, they were ultimately sent to the Oregon State Crime Lab for, uh,
14 examination.
15 Brian Davidson: You will hear from a witness, uh, this afternoon, from the forensic
16 um, examiner who took a look at the firearms who will testify about
17 what he found when he examined the shell casings and guns this
18 afternoon. ****
19 Other Speaker: Ah.
20 Other Speaker: Let’s start with the holster.
21 Brian Davidson: How would you **** that holster?
22 Detective Rico Beniga: This is, a, what we call the inside, uh, generally inside the waistband
23 holster, uh, worn on inside of your pants. Uh, this clip, uh, would be,
24 uh, on the outside. Uh, but in this case he was actually wearing it in
25 the pocket which generally is not what it's designed for.
26 Brian Davidson: ****. Does anybody want to pause for a look at that? No, okay.
27 ****. There’s a letter.
97 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Other Speaker: Ah.
2 Brian Davidson: At some point you interviewed Mr. Wilkinson. **** was
3 interviewed by detectives and he is, he stated that this firearm wasn't
4 back **** firearmcorrect?
5 Detective Rico Beniga: Yes.
6 Brian Davidson: Um, Mr. Wilkinson uh and Mr. Washington both had concealed
7 weapons permits, is that accurate?
8 Detective Rico Beniga: Yes.
9 Brian Davidson: And did you learn during the course of your investigation how, um,
10 this firearm which we know from the Rialto video was in the
11 possession of Mr. Wilkinson got to be in the possession of Mr.
12 Washington.
13 Detective Rico Beniga: Um, Mr. Wilkinson said he gave it to Mr. Washington, uh, just, no,
14 uh, sometime just prior to, uh, the shooting uh, said it was because
15 he was gonna, mind, his mind, uh was gonna be involved in a fight
16 and he didn't want the gun on him so.
17 Brian Davidson: There’s a, some like green powder on that. Can you explain what
18 that is?
19 Detective Rico Beniga: Probably applied by the, uh, uh, the examiners, so it wasn’t like that
20 in its uh original shape.
21 Brian Davidson: You've got the magazine, any rounds in there as well?
22 Detective Rico Beniga: Maybe it's in a different package.
23 Brian Davidson: Okay.
24 Detective Rico Beniga: We don't have the magazine.
25 Brian Davidson: That’s fine.
26 Detective Rico Beniga: Uh, these are fire range test fires done by the lab.
98 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: So, you got test the lab, the testing, uh, there was also an autopsy
2 performed on Mr. Washington is that correct?
3 Detective Rico Beniga: Yes.
4 Brian Davidson: We’ll be hearing from the medical examiner uh maybe tomorrow,
5 uh, um, of those results. Uh, detective, is there anything additional,
6 that uh, that's relevant to the inquiry that we haven't talked about
7 already? Any questions from the Grand Jury for Detective Beniga at
8 this time? We can always bring him back later if you think of
9 something you want to ask him that didn't occur to you now, but, uh,
10 if you have questions for him now.
11 Other Speaker: I have a question.
12 Brian Davidson: Yes.
13 Other Speaker: Um, I don't know if this was me**** later or a different shot but do
14 you have enhanced stills where something, it looks like the guy on
15 the gun is in the shot on McKenzie’s body-camera, it, do we have
16 something like, what can we see him pointing the gun or has that
17 been slowed down to look at?
18 Detective Rico Beniga: We do have, uh, stills of that actually, uh, you'll see that, uh,
19 Mr. Washington's arm was extended, uh, black object uh, because
20 they're grainy in the photo, the grainy, uh, quality of the photo, uh, it
21 appears to be the handgun. Uh, tt's extended, uh, initially it looks like
22 it points at Mr., uh, Zachary Walker, if you remember him in, all in
23 black. He was between officers and Mr. Washington towards the
24 right there. So it looks like its sleeve starts in first and continues
25 before the shot's fired. You, we have the photo.
99 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: And, may-,we're gonna hear from another witness ****, ah, you
2 asked that additional work be done in this video, you asked someone
3 in particular. Tell us about that.
4 Detective Rico Beniga: I did, uh, I asked Officer uh, Anthony Eugenio. Ah, he's currently
5 assigned to our gang enforcement team, but he's had received, uh,
6 training and will continue to receive training on video, uh,
7 examination. So he has a little bit more of a expertise than I do and
8 he, he did some work on this video.
9 Brian Davidson: To include some stills which I think would answer your question,
10 correct? Anybody else, questions for Detective Beniga?
11 Other Speaker: I just wanted you to say again, you said Wilkinson gave the gun to
12 Washington just before this because what, you said earlier?
13 Detective Rico Beniga: Uh, in his, his interview, uh, he had concluded he was gonna have a
14 fight that he was gonna fight with, uh, the other group, or members
15 of the other group that was there so he passed off the gun to
16 Mr. Washington.
17 Other Speaker: Okay.
18 Other Speaker: So the video at the Rialto, which we did not see, I think you said
19 that, uh, Mr. Wilkinson had the gun and –
20 Detective Rico Beniga: Correct.
21 Other Speaker: Okay.
22 Detective Rico Beniga: It's on his, uh, you can see it in the video. It's on his, uh, uh, right hip
23 area, uh, being worn the way that it was designed to, inside his pants.
24 Other Speaker: And we, we got a lot of statements about, and you know, videos and
25 stuff about people saying somebody was pointing the gun at
26 somebody. Did you hear anymore, was it, was it Washington holding
27 the gun or?
100 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Detective Rico Beniga: We never found anybody that would say that, uh, Mr. Washington
2 actually brandished that firearm prior to the PSU police arriving.
3 Brian Davidson: So when detectives interviewed witnesses, no one would say that
4 they saw Mr. Washington pointing a firearm at someone prior to the
5 incident.
6 Detective Rico Beniga: Correct.
7 Brian Davidson: There is people, I guess, in the videos who claim that that occurred,
8 but when you interviewed, like, when Mr. Dean was, who was in the
9 video saying that Mr. Washington pointed a firearm at him, when he
10 was subsequently interviewed did Mr. Dean, change his story or say
11 the same thing?
12 Detective Rico Beniga: I don't recall, uh, exactly what he said but I think he, uh, he changed
13 that and then stated he actually pointed it, or brandished it so. I'll
14 have to review his statement.
15 Brian Davidson: Okay.
16 Other Speaker: And, and also, I, it's not clear to me on the timing of all of this, but
17 the Cheerful Tortoise made the 911 call, how long does was it until
18 this incident happened?
19 Detective Rico Beniga: Uh, probably within a minute or two.
20 Other Speaker: Oh, I gotcha, okay. Um, okay.
21 Brian Davidson: Any other questions? Again, we can always bring Detective Beniga
22 back if you have additional questions later. Okay, well we pushed
23 into your lunch hour, so, uh, we'll go ahead and go off the record. So
24 we are back on the record in the case I previously mentioned, uh,
25 Brian Davidson, uh, still here, D-A-V-I-D-S-O-N, um, and our next
26 witness is, uh, Jeremy Wilkinson. Mr. Wilkinson, if you would, uh,
101 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 stand next to the black chair and raise your right hand and we'll
2 swear you in.
3 Jeremy Wilkinson: Okay.
4 Other Speaker: Do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you are about to
5 give in the matter pending before this Grand Jury shall be the truth,
6 the whole truth and nothing but the truth?
7 Jeremy Wilkinson: I do.
8 Brian Davidson: Go ahead and have a seat. And if you wouldn't mind, uh, stating and
9 spelling your full name for us.
10 Jeremy Wilkinson: Jeremy Wilkinson, J-E-R-E-M-Y W-I-L-K-I-N-S-O-N.
11 Brian Davidson: Okay, uh, thanks for coming Mr. Wilkinson. I appreciate it, um,
12 would you tell the jury how you're currently employed.
13 Jeremy Wilkinson: Um, I work at a dealership in Texas.
14 Brian Davidson: What kind of dealership?
15 Jeremy Wilkinson: A, a Mitsubishi dealership.
16 Brian Davidson: Okay.
17 Jeremy Wilkinson: And I just started that less than a month ago, but before that I was
18 11 years at the post office.
19 Brian Davidson: Oh, okay, great. Um, and it's my understanding that you're a Navy
20 veteran?
21 Jeremy Wilkinson: Yeah, I, I retired June, did 22 years. Retired, retired from the
22 reserves, did 12 years active, 10 years reserve.
23 Brian Davidson: Okay, uh, I think you know why we're here. We're here to discuss
24 this unfortunate tragic situation with Mr. Washington. Um, my
25 understanding is that you were very good friends with
26 Mr. Washington. Is that right?
27 Jeremy Wilkinson: Yes.
102 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: Okay, and if any moment during this proceeding you need to take a
2 break, step out, collect yourself, just let me know. Okay, we can do
3 that. Um, how long have you known Mr. Washington?
4 Jeremy Wilkinson: About 30 years.
5 Brian Davidson: So from when you were children?
6 Jeremy Wilkinson: Yeah, um, 14ish.
7 Brian Davidson: Fourteen, and did you go to school together?
8 Jeremy Wilkinson: Yeah. High school.
9 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
10 Jeremy Wilkinson: That, we live around the corner from each other.
11 Brian Davidson: Was that here in town?
12 Jeremy Wilkinson: Yeah, in Portland. Southeast.
13 Brian Davidson: What school did you go to together?
14 Jeremy Wilkinson: Franklin.
15 Brian Davidson: All right. Fine. All right. And uh, I think it’s also my understanding
16 that you were maybe in the Navy together, or at least kinda joined
17 together?
18 Jeremy Wilkinson: Yeah he's the one who talked me into joining.
19 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
20 Jeremy Wilkinson: And then we went in together, got out togeth, well not the exact
21 same time but it was within a couple months and then we both got
22 out. I went back in. He stayed out.
23 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. Okay, uh, and then, um, after you both left the Navy, um,
24 did you both reside here in the Portland area?
25 Jeremy Wilkinson: Yeah, well, which, like when I, when we both, every time I got out
26 the Navy I was here, yes.
27 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
103 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Jeremy Wilkinson: All the way up until last month.
2 Brian Davidson: Okay, so you just recently got out of the Navy then?
3 Jeremy Wilkinson: Yeah, June.
4 Brian Davidson: Yeah, okay. Okay, and uh, what about Mr. Pratt, Ryan Pratt, is he a
5 friend of yours as well?
6 Jeremy Wilkinson: Yeah, I was in the Navy with him.
7 Brian Davidson: Is that how you met him?
8 Jeremy Wilkinson: Mm hmm.
9 Brian Davidson: Okay, and is he originally from Portland?
10 Jeremy Wilkinson: Eugene.
11 Brian Davidson: Eugene, okay. Did you know him before you went in the Navy or?
12 Jeremy Wilkinson: No.
13 Brian Davidson: Okay, and, um, uh, so how long have you known him?
14 Jeremy Wilkinson: Probably since about 2003ish, maybe early four but I think it's three.
15 Brian Davidson: Okay.
16 Jeremy Wilkinson: It's when I transferred to Whidbey Island. I met him up there.
17 Brian Davidson: Gotcha. Okay, well we're gonna talk about what occurred, um,
18 ultimately in the very early hours of the 29th of June of this year, uh,
19 but started out kinda on the 28th. It's my understanding that, um,
20 yourself and Mr. and Mr. um, Pratt and Mr. Washington had made
21 plans to come downtown to watch the Beavers play in the College
22 World Series. Is that right?
23 Jeremy Wilkinson: That's true.
24 Brian Davidson: Um, why don't you just walk us through kind of, what arrangements
25 you guys made and where you guys met up first when you were
26 downtown, what time?
104 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Jeremy Wilkinson: Well, I, I don't really remember the time but I think it was around 2
2 maybe. We just planned, uh, to meet up at Cheerful Tortoise to
3 watch the game and then so that's what we did.
4 Brian Davidson: Okay, so is that, you met what, with Mr., did you meet Mr. Pratt first
5 or Mr.–
6 Jeremy Wilkinson: Yeah, no Pratt came to my house and then we Ubered to Cheerful
7 and then I believe Jason walked to Cheerful from his house 'cause it's
8 pretty close.
9 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. And that was about 2:00?
10 Jeremy Wilkinson: Yeah, I think.
11 Brian Davidson: And, uh, how long did you stay at the Cheerful Tortoise?
12 Jeremy Wilkinson: Oh, not long.
13 Brian Davidson: And why is that?
14 Jeremy Wilkinson: There was no, there was no one there. We wanted, we wanted the
15 atmosphere for the game.
16 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
17 Jeremy Wilkinson: So we walked to Buffalo Wild Wings after that.
18 Brian Davidson: And, uh, so how long do you think you were at Cheerful Tortoise?
19 Jeremy Wilkinson: Maybe 15 minutes.
20 Brian Davidson: Okay, did you guys have a drink while you were there?
21 Jeremy Wilkinson: Yeah, I had, uh, I had a beer. I think, I think they may have too.
22 Brian Davidson: Okay, uh, and then you walked, uh, how long did it, you think it took
23 you to walk to Buffalo Wild Wings?
24 Jeremy Wilkinson: Oh, I have no idea, maybe 10 minutes.
25 Brian Davidson: Okay.
26 Jeremy Wilkinson: It didn't take very long. It wasn't very far.
27 Brian Davidson: And did you get there before the game started?
105 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Jeremy Wilkinson: Yeah.
2 Brian Davidson: Oh, do you remember what time the game started?
3 Jeremy Wilkinson: Maybe, maybe 3:30, 3, 3:30, something like that.
4 Brian Davidson: Okay, and when you got to Buffalo Wild Wings, was the atmosphere
5 better?
6 Jeremy Wilkinson: Yeah, there's people there. Like there was nobody in Cheerful.
7 Brian Davidson: Okay.
8 Jeremy Wilkinson: We were the only ones there.
9 Brian Davidson: All right.
10 Jeremy Wilkinson: So.
11 Brian Davidson: All right, and, uh, so did you in fact watch the game?
12 Jeremy Wilkinson: Yeah.
13 Brian Davidson: All right.
14 Jeremy Wilkinson: The whole thing.
15 Brian Davidson: Okay, the Beavers won right?
16 Jeremy Wilkinson: Mm hmm.
17 Brian Davidson: And, uh, how long do you think you were at the Buffalo Wild
18 Wings?
19 Jeremy Wilkinson: Oh, I don't know, maybe an hour before the game, an hour after the
20 game. So maybe, f-, I don-, 5 hours maybe.
21 Brian Davidson: Okay.
22 Jeremy Wilkinson: I'm just guessing. I mean, I don't really know, it, we got there when it
23 was daylight and we left when it was daylight.
24 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
25 Jeremy Wilkinson: So, I'm thinking it's about 5 hours.
26 Brian Davidson: Okay, and, uh, did you eat, eat anything while you were there?
27 Jeremy Wilkinson: Yeah, lots.
106 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: What did you guys eat?
2 Jeremy Wilkinson: Well, I had wings and I also had a nacho. That's what I had.
3 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
4 Jeremy Wilkinson: I don't know, I wasn't really paying attention what everybody else
5 had.
6 Brian Davidson: But you guys were like eating meals and food, those things?
7 Jeremy Wilkinson: Yeah.
8 Brian Davidson: Okay, and, for to say that you guys were also drinking?
9 Jeremy Wilkinson: Mm hmm. I had a few beers.
10 Brian Davidson: Okay, and do you know how many beers you drank?
11 Jeremy Wilkinson: No, I mean I said this before but this, now it's been a few months, so
12 I, I really don't remember but it's probably two or three and I know
13 we had two shots and like in cele-, celebration shots. Um, probably
14 one midway through the game and one probably towards the end.
15 Brian Davidson: Shots?
16 Jeremy Wilkinson: Yeah.
17 Brian Davidson: Okay, so two what, two shots of what?
18 Jeremy Wilkinson: We had, uh, I think it was Pendleton.
19 Brian Davidson: Okay, and that's like whiskey, right?
20 Jeremy Wilkinson: Yeah.
21 Brian Davidson: Did you all have two shots?
22 Jeremy Wilkinson: Yeah, we all had two shots.
23 Brian Davidson: All right, and you remember having a couple beers at least?
24 Jeremy Wilkinson: Yeah.
25 Brian Davidson: All right.
26 Jeremy Wilkinson: No, well I think it was either two or three.
27 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
107 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Jeremy Wilkinson: Two or three beers and I don’t, like I said, I don't, I don’t remember
2 for sure.
3 Brian Davidson: Okay, but everything was cool. You were enjoying yourself?
4 Jeremy Wilkinson: Yeah, we were having a great time.
5 Brian Davidson: All right, and at some point you ended up leaving, uh, Buffalo Wild
6 Wings, is that right?
7 Jeremy Wilkinson: Mm hmm.
8 Brian Davidson: And, uh, why did you decide to leave Buffalo Wild Wings?
9 Jeremy Wilkinson: I think it was, probably brought up the idea just to play poker and it
10 was right across the street so we went across the street and played
11 poker.
12 Brian Davidson: Where'd you go to?
13 Jeremy Wilkinson: Rialto's.
14 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. And they have card tables there?
15 Jeremy Wilkinson: Yeah.
16 Brian Davidson: Have you been there before?
17 Jeremy Wilkinson: I, I've been there before, yeah, but, uh, but not for poker, for like,
18 things like dog races or horse races, or something a long time ago.
19 Brian Davidson: Okay.
20 Jeremy Wilkinson: It was like downstairs.
21 Brian Davidson: All right, and, um, did you in fact play cards?
22 Jeremy Wilkinson: Yeah.
23 Brian Davidson: Was it like Texas Hold 'Em or –
24 Jeremy Wilkinson: Yeah, Texas Hold 'Em.
25 Brian Davidson: All right, uh, and how long you think you guys were there?
26 Jeremy Wilkinson: Mm, probably a couple hours.
27 Brian Davidson: All right, and, um, did you eat anything while you were there?
108 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Jeremy Wilkinson: No.
2 Brian Davidson: All right, did you have more cocktails?
3 Jeremy Wilkinson: I had either one or two beers there 'cause I was playing cards. So I'm
4 gonna go with two. I think I tried to get a third.
5 Brian Davidson: Okay.
6 Jeremy Wilkinson: And then we, we left after that point.
7 Brian Davidson: Um, any hard liquor while you were there?
8 Jeremy Wilkinson: No, the only hard liquor we had, at least I, I had the entire night for
9 sure is those two shots.
10 Brian Davidson: Okay, um, any marijuana or other drugs?
11 Jeremy Wilkinson: No, none of us do that.
12 Brian Davidson: Okay, um, what were, um, what were Mr. Pratt and Mr. Washington
13 doing while you were playing cards?
14 Jeremy Wilkinson: Uh, Pratt was playing cards with me and Jason was playing Keno at
15 the bar.
16 Brian Davidson: Okay, and do you know what Jason was drinking or how much or
17 what –
18 Jeremy Wilkinson: I have no idea.
19 Brian Davidson: – **** it was?
20 Jeremy Wilkinson: I have no idea.
21 Brian Davidson: Okay, um, so, um, my understanding is that you, uh, own a firearm.
22 Is that right?
23 Jeremy Wilkinson: I do.
24 Brian Davidson: And what kind of firearm is that?
25 Jeremy Wilkinson: A Walther PPQ.
26 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. Nine-millimeter?
27 Jeremy Wilkinson: Yes.
109 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: Okay, and it's also my understanding that you have concealed
2 weapons permit for that gun. Is that right?
3 Jeremy Wilkinson: I do.
4 Brian Davidson: Uh, how long have you owned that gun?
5 Jeremy Wilkinson: A little, uh, a year ish.
6 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. And, uh, how long have you had a concealed weapons
7 permit?
8 Jeremy Wilkinson: Since November.
9 Brian Davidson: Okay, and, um, so you had the gun with you that night?
10 Jeremy Wilkinson: Mm hmm.
11 Brian Davidson: Um, you left the house with it?
12 Jeremy Wilkinson: I did.
13 Brian Davidson: And, and how were you carrying or wearing it?
14 Jeremy Wilkinson: On, in my inside waistband.
15 Brian Davidson: And did you have a special holster for that?
16 Jeremy Wilkinson: Yeah, I had a inside-waistband holster.
17 Brian Davidson: Okay, maybe you could explain, would you mind have to standing
18 up maybe show us how that's supposed to work.
19 Jeremy Wilkinson: So, inside the waistband holster is the, holster isn't right here on the
20 outside. The holster's on the inside of the waistband and then, so the
21 gun in the holster are both right here.
22 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
23 Jeremy Wilkinson: And the shirt is over the top.
24 Brian Davidson: Okay, and from the outside all you can see, I guess is just the clip
25 hanging over –
26 Jeremy Wilkinson: You can't, you, you can't even see that.
27 Brian Davidson: If your shirt is hanging down.
110 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Jeremy Wilkinson: Well, yeah if your shirt's hanging down you won't, you won't even
2 see, it, you couldn't see it in my shirt 'cause my shirt was a little bit
3 longer and the clip only go to right about here.
4 Brian Davidson: Okay.
5 Jeremy Wilkinson: So if the shirt was hanging down anything bef, that’s longer than that
6 you won’t see it. The only thing I ever noticed when I wear it is you
7 can maybe see like a little bump right here.
8 Brian Davidson: The tenting of your shirt or something.
9 Jeremy Wilkinson: Yeah, well like the handle maybe poking out right here and, 'cause it,
10 it's a full size. It was, it's not a –
11 Brian Davidson: Compact?
12 Jeremy Wilkinson: Right.
13 Brian Davidson: Yaeh, go ahead and have a seat thank you. Um, uh, so when you left
14 the house, was the gun loaded?
15 Jeremy Wilkinson: Yep.
16 Brian Davidson: Was there a round chambered?
17 Jeremy Wilkinson: Yes.
18 Brian Davidson: All right, is that generally how you carry it when you carry it?
19 Jeremy Wilkinson: Yes, that's how you're supposed to carry it.
20 Brian Davidson: Um, can I ask you why you decided to take the gun with you that
21 night?
22 Jeremy Wilkinson: I, carr-, I take it everywhere.
23 Brian Davidson: Do you, okay. Um, all right, so you're at the, um, you're at the uh,
24 Rialto at this point. You're playing cards, uh, at some point there's
25 some kind of disturbance involving the bouncer or the bartender. Is
26 that right?
27 Jeremy Wilkinson: Mm hmm.
111 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: Do you have a rec-, recollection in your mind of what occurred?
2 Jeremy Wilkinson: Well, like, what, what I was told by Jason is –
3 Brian Davidson: Well let me, let me ask you that, I don't want you to tell me what, are
4 you talking about after the fact Jason told you this or?
5 Jeremy Wilkinson: No, dur-, inside.
6 Brian Davidson: Okay, do you, did you have an independent recollection?
7 Jeremy Wilkinson: Yeah, well.
8 Brian Davidson: Okay.
9 Jeremy Wilkinson: Because what he told me something –
10 Brian Davidson: Okay.
11 Jeremy Wilkinson: – and then the, this thing happened.
12 Brian Davidson: Okay, what did he tell you?
13 Jeremy Wilkinson: He said that, like him and the wait, the bartender or waitress,
14 whatever she was, were just sitting there having, having a, a great
15 conversation about like politics and this and that and then once she,
16 she, once she didn't agree with him she cut him off and so I was like
17 okay, so I went up there to get, he told me so I went there to go try to
18 get us a beer and then she's like, "You were talking to him so you're
19 cut off too."
20 Brian Davidson: Pointed to you saying you're talking –
21 Jeremy Wilkinson: Yeah.
22 Brian Davidson: – to Jason and so you're cut off as well.
23 Jeremy Wilkinson: Yeah, so I was like okay, and that same bartender that, uh, or that,
24 that the bouncer guy I go, "Are we getting kicked out or can I go
25 back over there and finish playing?" And he's like, "Yeah, you guys,
26 sure." So I went over there and I sat, I went to sit down and I, I had, I
27 had like this much of a beer left and I picked up the drink and he
112 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 slapped my hand and the whole thing just spilled and, all over me
2 and then, so, and I, I might have been stupid but my hands, I have
3 beer all over them now, so I dried them off on him and then –
4 Brian Davidson: Like on his shirt or something?
5 Jeremy Wilkinson: Mm hmm.
6 Brian Davidson: Okay.
7 Jeremy Wilkinson: Like on his arm or something and then he shoved me to the ground
8 and then we got up and walked out.
9 Brian Davidson: Okay.
10 Jeremy Wilkinson: Not, not, I don't think we even said anything or anything. We just
11 like
12 Brian Davidson: Okay. Do you remember if you made any reference to being armed
13 when you were talking to him –
14 Jeremy Wilkinson: No, but there was –
15 Brian Davidson: **** the Rialto?
16 Jeremy Wilkinson: – I didn't say anything but he did say I have one too because I, I was,
17 as we're walking out I was adjusting myself.
18 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
19 Jeremy Wilkinson: And I think he seen it.
20 Brian Davidson: Okay.
21 Jeremy Wilkinson: 'Cause he –
22 Brian Davidson: All right.
23 Jeremy Wilkinson: – goes, "I have one of those too." I was like, oh, and I said, I think he
24 seen, seen my, um, my firearm.
25 Brian Davidson: Okay, uh, do you know what time you left Rialto?
26 Jeremy Wilkinson: No, I don't.
27 Brian Davidson: Okay.
113 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Jeremy Wilkinson: I, I really don't.
2 Brian Davidson: All right, uh, so what did you guys do after leaving Rialto?
3 Jeremy Wilkinson: We walked up to Cheerful.
4 Brian Davidson: All right, and you guys were just like you want the night to keep
5 going or what was –
6 Jeremy Wilkinson: Yeah, we were in a good mood. We were great. They won. We're
7 celebrating. It's fun where everybody was off. You know, Jason was
8 on vacation. Everybody was off so we just having a good time.
9 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. Okay, so, um, you, did you stop anywhere or just go
10 straight to the Rialto, or I'm sorry straight to the Cheerful Tortoise?
11 Jeremy Wilkinson: We, we just went straight there I think. We probably took our time,
12 just strolling up the street.
13 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. Okay, and, uh, what did you, oh, do once you go to the
14 Rialto, or I keep saying that, sorry, once, once you got to the
15 Cheerful Tortoise, what happened? What did you guys do?
16 Jeremy Wilkinson: Um.
17 Brian Davidson: Was an event going on or some kinda promotional or something like
18 that?
19 Jeremy Wilkinson: Well it was Thursday night so it's, you know, they got the 20, well I
20 don't think they're 25 cents. When we were younger it was 25-cent
21 wings and beers but not with beers, but dollar beers and 25-cent
22 wings, but I think it's still the dollar beers and like 50-cent wings or
23 doll, 75-cent wings or something.
24 Brian Davidson: On Thursday night?
25 Jeremy Wilkinson: Yeah.
26 Brian Davidson: Okay.
114 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Jeremy Wilkinson: So there was that, but we were just there to hang out 'cause it's close
2 to Jason's house and then we go home from there.
3 Brian Davidson: Okay, um, so once you got there what did, what did you do
4 immediately, if anything? Did you buy some drinks? Did you play
5 cards, poker, what did you do?
6 Jeremy Wilkinson: Um, I was, I, we went and probably went and played pool, and me
7 and Jason went and sat at a little table, as you kinda come into the
8 right, back there by the, the video poker machines.
9 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
10 Jeremy Wilkinson: And we just sat there and we just talked and drank a few beers.
11 Brian Davidson: Okay, do you know how many beers you drank?
12 Jeremy Wilkinson: Well, I, I think I bought five and I think we shared them between the
13 three of us.
14 Brian Davidson: And were these pints or?
15 Jeremy Wilkinson: They're just little plastic cups.
16 Brian Davidson: Okay.
17 Jeremy Wilkinson: You know, um, I don't know how many ounces. They're not very,
18 they're not, definitely not pints.
19 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
20 Jeremy Wilkinson: I, if, if anything I don't even think they're like full-size beers. They're
21 just like, you know, they're a dollar so they're, I don't think they're
22 full-size beers. They're just maybe 8, 10 ounces would be my guess,
23 but I don't know for sure.
24 Brian Davidson: And there was five and you think you shared them between the three
25 of you?
26 Jeremy Wilkinson: Yeah, we definitely did 'cause that's what, that's what, uh, my receipt
27 said, I bought five.
115 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: Oh, okay.
2 Jeremy Wilkinson: So.
3 Brian Davidson: You used your credit card or cash or?
4 Jeremy Wilkinson: Yeah, I used my card. I didn't have any cash on me.
5 Brian Davidson: Okay.
6 Jeremy Wilkinson: Well, maybe I did. I don't, oh I had cash on me but I used my card
7 because I had cash on me because we were playing poker.
8 Brian Davidson: Okay, um, so you and, um, Mr. Washington are sitting at the table
9 just conversating?
10 Jeremy Wilkinson: Mm hmm.
11 Brian Davidson: Was it just conversating between the two of you or with other
12 people?
13 Jeremy Wilkinson: Just me and him.
14 Brian Davidson: Okay.
15 Jeremy Wilkinson: Um, Pratt would come over every once and a while and, yeah, we, I
16 don't remember talking to anybody else.
17 Brian Davidson: Okay, uh, any hard liquor there?
18 Jeremy Wilkinson: No.
19 Brian Davidson: All right. So how long were you there, you know, at, um, you said
20 that you remember, how long were there before any kind of like
21 disturbance of any sort kind of developed?
22 Jeremy Wilkinson: See, I don't see us being there very long at all honestly. So I, I would
23 say we were there maybe like 45 minutes and then, um, yea, that's
24 about it. I'd say maybe 45 minutes but, but the, I don't, I'm not a
25 hundred percent sure.
26 Brian Davidson: Okay, so what, what happened? When did things get kind of –
27 Jeremy Wilkinson: I keep, I keep tryin' –
116 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: – weird?
2 Jeremy Wilkinson: – I keep trying to think of that. I, I have no idea.
3 Brian Davidson: You don't recall?
4 Jeremy Wilkinson: 'Cause th, 'cause I've seen like the pictures of those other kids and I
5 don't ever remember talking to 'em until we were outside.
6 Brian Davidson: Okay, so you don't remember any altercation inside or –
7 Jeremy Wilkinson: No, but I do remember Jason grabbed me kinda by the shirt and
8 saying, "Come on. Let's go." So I feel like there was.
9 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
10 Jeremy Wilkinson: But I don't have a clear recolation of it. The only time I remember
11 talking to anybody else was when Pratt was playing pool and he was
12 like, called us over for, like, some rules or something. We're like,
13 yeah that's what it is, and then, and I remember getting, tooken out of
14 there from there.
15 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
16 Jeremy Wilkinson: But I don't, it, it, like I said, I don't think it was those same kids.
17 Brian Davidson: So what's the, what’s the first thing you remember about there being
18 an altercation with this other group of people? Do you have a
19 recollection of that?
20 Jeremy Wilkinson: I just, I mean I, I, I remem, I don't know how anything started, like
21 why they're following us. I remember them following us up and
22 down the street. We even went around the corner one time. I don't
23 know why but I do know they were doing it and, and assuming it's
24 something I said or did.
25 Brian Davidson: You're assuming it is?
26 Jeremy Wilkinson: Well yeah because they're yelling at me this whole time.
27 Brian Davidson: So you seem to be the focus of their anger?
117 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Jeremy Wilkinson: Right, it was definitely, I was definitely the focus.
2 Brian Davidson: Okay, and so what kinds of things are they saying to you?
3 Jeremy Wilkinson: I, just stupid talking mess type things. I mean I, I can't, like I don't
4 really remember exactly what they're saying but you know, like
5 pointing at me, saying, "Oh, we're gonna get this guy" type thing.
6 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. Yeah.
7 Jeremy Wilkinson: Just the normal talking mess to, to get underneath someone's skin.
8 Brian Davidson: Got you, um, I, I don't know if you're aware of this but at least one
9 person had suggested that and, and you guys are aware there were
10 several African-American individuals in this other group.
11 Jeremy Wilkinson: Mm hmm.
12 Brian Davidson: Right?
13 Jeremy Wilkinson: Mm hmm.
14 Brian Davidson: That you had used the N word.
15 Jeremy Wilkinson: Yeah, I heard that too. That's not true.
16 Brian Davidson: Do, do you specifically recall that you never said the N word to
17 someone?
18 Jeremy Wilkinson: No, I just know that's not me. I never say that ever.
19 Brian Davidson: Okay.
20 Jeremy Wilkinson: And I think, you know, if anything I'll be dealing with Jason at that
21 point, you know.
22 Brian Davidson: Jason, Jason's African American.
23 Jeremy Wilkinson: Correct.
24 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. Okay.
25 Jeremy Wilkinson: I mean hi, his dad basically took me in at 14 so like Jason's more
26 than a friend. He's like a brother, you know, that's how our
27 relationship was like. So that's, it's not even a possibility.
118 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: It's not like keeping with your character?
2 Jeremy Wilkinson: Right.
3 Brian Davidson: All right. Got it. Okay, , um, if you were to, you know, kind of in
4 retrospect, rate your level of intoxication at that point, um, how
5 would you characterize it?
6 Jeremy Wilkinson: Oh, I was buzzed up. I mean I, I mean I wasn't, you know, I was
7 drinking. I was, you know, probably should be calling it quits at,
8 probably a couple beers before that, but –
9 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
10 Jeremy Wilkinson: – but I wasn't like incoherent. I, at least I didn't think I was.
11 Brian Davidson: So on a like scale of 0 to 10, like with 0 being like stone cold sober
12 and like 10 being the most intoxicated you've ever been, where do
13 you think you fell in that spectrum?
14 Jeremy Wilkinson: Probably like a six.
15 Brian Davidson: A six?
16 Jeremy Wilkinson: Yeah.
17 Brian Davidson: Okay, um, so explain to me how things are kinda heating up with
18 this other group, how things kind of unfold as far as you recall?
19 Jeremy Wilkinson: See, like I said, I don't, I don't know how it even started so I don't
20 know how it stared heating up, but I, but I do know that I, I, I
21 remember like yelling back at them and they're yelling at me. I'm not
22 really sure what, what I was saying and I remember Jason getting in
23 between and I remember, and then, and then I, I of course, you
24 know, I listen to him so I'm, he's driving me out of there. I go with
25 him and then we, we walk away and then I, I ordered a Uber to
26 leave.
27 Brian Davidson: On your phone?
119 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Jeremy Wilkinson: Yeah..
2 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
3 Jeremy Wilkinson: And then I came, we, and then the Uber was at Cheerful so it was
4 coming to Cheerful so we came back around the corner to get Pratt
5 and, and get into the Uber and go.
6 Brian Davidson: Okay, so did things kind of simmer down between you and this other
7 group of guys at this point or?
8 Jeremy Wilkinson: Yeah, well 'cause we kinda went around the corner away from them,
9 but when we came back they, they started back in.
10 Brian Davidson: And was this inside or outside of the Cheerful –
11 Jeremy Wilkinson: Out, outside.
12 Brian Davidson: All right, so what happened at that point?
13 Jeremy Wilkinson: I guess that's when we probably came closer to each other and
14 started pushing I guess.
15 Brian Davidson: You and –
16 Jeremy Wilkinson: I, I did-, actually I don't ev-, no I don't remember even touching him
17 until, we were, we were walking close to each other. I remember in
18 the middle of the street coming towards them and then Jason got in
19 between us. He was like, he, he was bouncing me with his chest.
20 He'd turn around, hit me with the back and then, then we'd turn
21 around and started going again and they kept, and then I remember
22 they were following, they were following and then they started
23 sticking their phones in, in our faces.
24 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
25 Jeremy Wilkinson: And then when he put it in Jason's face that really ticked me off so I,
26 I smacked it out of his hand and then that's when the guy jumped on
27 me.
120 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: Okay, do you have a specific recollection of kind of description of
2 that guy.
3 Jeremy Wilkinson: No, I, I ju, I just know he's wearing red.
4 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
5 Jeremy Wilkinson: And.
6 Brian Davidson: Is he a white guy, African American guy?
7 Jeremy Wilkinson: No, he's a black dude.
8 Brian Davidson: Okay.
9 Jeremy Wilkinson: And he kinda has some like, I don't know, some longer hair.
10 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. So, at some point prior to that happening it seems that,
11 um, Mr. Washington ended up with your gun.
12 Jeremy Wilkinson: Yeah.
13 Brian Davidson: Do you have a recollection as to how that occurred?
14 Jeremy Wilkinson: Yeah, I gave it to him 'cause I, because when we were, when we
15 were walking away and they kept following us and I told him at
16 some point I said, "These guys if, if we, if we don't get back to that
17 Uber, the, and Pratt, these guys are not gonna let go. They're gonna
18 fight," and I said, "I'll do it. I don't care." And he's not, he's not that
19 type that's gonna fight and stuff. He has a conceal to carry as well so
20 I said –
21 Brian Davidson: When you say that, you mean he's got a permit, correct?
22 Jeremy Wilkinson: Yeah, he's got his –
23 Brian Davidson: He wasn't, he wasn’t carrying ****
24 Jeremy Wilkinson: No, but he has a concealed carry permit, correct. Yeah.
25 Brian Davidson: Gotcha.
26 Jeremy Wilkinson: I may have worded that wrong, but he has one as well so I handed it
27 to him. I said, "Hey look man, I will, if, you know, they're not gonna
121 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 let it go. So if we're gonna fight I'll do it and, and you just stand over
2 there" and so that's why I knocked the phone out of the guy's hand is
3 because he started going to Jason's face.
4 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
5 Jeremy Wilkinson: And he, at that point he already has it and –
6 Brian Davidson: Jason already has the gun?
7 Jeremy Wilkinson: Yeah, and I, and I didn't want him, anyone near him with the gun.
8 Brian Davidson: Okay, let me, let me ask you this, why, um, in your thinking if you
9 were gonna get in a, like a fist fight with these guys, why didn't you
10 want to have, either why didn't you want to have the firearm on you
11 or why did you want him, why did you want Jason Washington to
12 have the firearm?
13 Jeremy Wilkinson: Because I Ja, I know Ja, Jason would never fight, ever.
14 Brian Davidson: Right.
15 Jeremy Wilkinson: So, if he has it over there he's not in a fight. That gun's not even near
16 a fight. So if I'm getting in a fight –
17 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
18 Jeremy Wilkinson: – then no one could see anything different like, hey, he, like this
19 guy's getting in a fight with a gun on his arm, on his shoulder. It's
20 just to me it didn't seem appropriate.
21 Brian Davidson: To take a gun to a fist fight?
22 Jeremy Wilkinson: Right.
23 Brian Davidson: Okay.
24 Jeremy Wilkinson: I mean, I the fight is inappropriate anyway but what I'm saying is I
25 didn't want to make it worse.
26 Brian Davidson: Sure.
27 Jeremy Wilkinson: Which it got worse.
122 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: Um, did they see, this other group of folks, did they see you handing
2 the gun to Jason?
3 Jeremy Wilkinson: No, There's no way.
4 Brian Davidson: Okay.
5 Jeremy Wilkinson: I mean yes, it's possible but I don't think so.
6 Brian Davidson: All right, and to your recollection, uh, did Jason ever say anything to
7 them or, about having the gun or –
8 Jeremy Wilkinson: Not, not –
9 Brian Davidson: – brandish the gun or refer to the gun ****?
10 Jeremy Wilkinson: Not, not, not under my recollection. I don't remember that.
11 Brian Davidson: Okay, all right, okay. So, at some point prior to this episode kinda
12 over by the Chipotle you gave Jason your gun. ’Cause you didn't –
13 Jeremy Wilkinson: Yes.
14 Brian Davidson: – want to have it in case of a fight, uh, you were telling us that, um,
15 the guy, the African American guy with long hair and the red shirt
16 was video, videoing you?
17 Jeremy Wilkinson: He, they, well there's a bunch of 'em but, you know, there are ways,
18 there are ways of doing it but when they start getting in our faces and
19 doing it I was like oh, this, this is ridiculous.
20 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. Okay, and so what happened at that point?
21 Jeremy Wilkinson: I, I smacked the guy's phone out of his hand.
22 Brian Davidson: Okay, and what was, what was the reaction by him once you did
23 that?
24 Jeremy Wilkinson: Well, he, he, he jumped on me.
25 Brian Davidson: Okay, and explain what happened moving forward.
26 Jeremy Wilkinson: And when he jumped on me I just jumped on him back and, and to
27 keep him, keep him from trying to hurt me.
123 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: Okay, and were you guys standing, ****, what was happening?
2 Jeremy Wilkinson: We were, we were on the ground.
3 Brian Davidson: Okay. And, uh, where were you? Were you on top, on the bottom?
4 Were you –
5 Jeremy Wilkinson: I was, I think I was on the bottom at first and then I rolled onto the
6 top and then apparently, I got kicked so I don't, I don't know
7 anything after that.
8 Brian Davidson: Okay, how do you know you got kicked? Do you remember it or did
9 somebody tell you about that?
10 Jeremy Wilkinson: No, no, someone told me.
11 Brian Davidson: Okay.
12 Jeremy Wilkinson: I, , I don't, I don't, I don't remember getting kicked.
13 Brian Davidson: Okay, and, um, did you go out, do you think?
14 Jeremy Wilkinson: I'm assuming so.
15 Brian Davidson: All right.
16 Jeremy Wilkinson: 'Cause I, I, I don't, 'cause I didn't know any of this happened until a
17 few hours later.
18 Brian Davidson: So what's, what's the next thing you recall after kind of being in that
19 s-, in that fight with the guy in the red shirt? What's the next thing
20 you remember?
21 Jeremy Wilkinson: So, the next thing I recall, which I, I, is me freaking out with the
22 cops grabbing me on both sides and that I can't, I don't know why
23 I'm freaking out but I remember freaking out and me getting almost
24 like dragged off with the cuffs on my hand and I'm, I'm freaking out
25 from, for whatever reason I don't know.
26 Brian Davidson: Okay.
27 Jeremy Wilkinson: But that's the next thing I remember from –
124 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: ****
2 Jeremy Wilkinson: – from, from me slapping the guy's phone out and that quick instance
3 to being dragged away. That's the next thing I remember.
4 Brian Davidson: Okay. All right, and to the best of your recollection when did you
5 find out that, um, Mr. Washington was deceased?
6 Jeremy Wilkinson: Uh, 7:30 in the morning.
7 Brian Davidson: That morning? And who, who told you do you rememeber?
8 Jeremy Wilkinson: The detectives.
9 Brian Davidson: All right.
10 Jeremy Wilkinson: I had no idea.
11 Brian Davidson: So did you even know that there had been a shooting?
12 Jeremy Wilkinson: No, I did not.
13 Brian Davidson: All right.
14 Jeremy Wilkinson: I, I didn't know what was going on. I was in the cop car, you know,
15 couple blocks awa-, um, um, maybe not a couple blocks, like up the
16 street and I see like stuff going on but I had no idea what it was.
17 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
18 Jeremy Wilkinson: I was asking and they, they wouldn't tell me anything and I'm like,
19 "Well, why am I arrested? What did I do?" They're like, "You know
20 what you did. We told you." I'm like, "No, you didn't." I'm , "No, I
21 have no idea. Tell me again. Why am I in cuffs in the car?" You
22 know, just sitting there, like I was thinking maybe that fight, yeah, I
23 get it, but I don't understand why they weren't telling me.
24 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. Yeah, um, so do you, you have no recollection of the
25 shooting at all?
26 Jeremy Wilkinson: No.
125 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: Did, you don't, I guess did you see where Mr. Washington was when
2 you were kinda in the midst of combat with this guy in the red shirt?
3 Do you have any recollection of this?
4 Jeremy Wilkinson: Yeah, he was by my side almost the whole time.
5 Brian Davidson: Yeah?
6 Jeremy Wilkinson: Yeah, so, so I'm guessing he was right there.
7 Brian Davidson: Okay, do you, do you remember the police arriving?
8 Jeremy Wilkinson: No. They didn't, when the, if, so if they were there they definitely
9 didn't say they were there and take control of the scene. They, they
10 didn't mention anything about being there.
11 Brian Davidson: Well you don't, you don't know, right? So you, you don't have any
12 recollection of them being there?
13 Jeremy Wilkinson: No, I don't because they didn't, they didn't say so because, to be
14 honest I've been, I've been in the military a long time. We respect
15 authority. If someone came in and, and tried to take control of the
16 scene and take, and say, hey you do, you know, you do this. You
17 stop, you wanna go to jail?
18 Jeremy Wilkinson: Or anything.
19 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
20 Jeremy Wilkinson: You know, I would have listened.
21 Brian Davidson: Okay.
22 Jeremy Wilkinson: I mean I was listening to Jason, you know.
23 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
24 Jeremy Wilkinson: So, I know for a fact if a cop would have came up and said
25 something to me I would have been like, yeah, okay. Like, I don't
26 wanna go to jail.
126 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: All right, um, do you think your level of intoxication was interfering
2 with your judgment at that point?
3 Jeremy Wilkinson: Well I think anytime you drink you're probably interfering with your
4 judgment.
5 Brian Davidson: Okay.
6 Jeremy Wilkinson: So I, I'm gonna say yes.
7 Brian Davidson: Uh, now it's my understanding that you ended up going to the doctor
8 or hospital?
9 Jeremy Wilkinson: Mm hmm.
10 Brian Davidson: When was that?
11 Jeremy Wilkinson: Sunday, so if that happened Thursday night, I went Sunday after the,
12 the, the serv-, not the service, but the viewing for Jason 'cause my
13 head kept hurting.
14 Brian Davidson: Did, did you get diagnosed with something?
15 Jeremy Wilkinson: Yeah, I had a concussion, concussion.
16 Brian Davidson: Concussion, okay, just give me one moment ****.
17 Jeremy Wilkinson: Mm hmm.
18 Brian Davidson: Um, do we have any questions from the Grand Jury?
19 Other Speaker: I have one. Um, so, to the best of your recollection, how soon was it
20 between the time of you giving the weapon to your friend and the
21 altercation?
22 Jeremy Wilkinson: Maybe a couple minutes, 5 minutes maybe.
23 Other Speaker: And was there ever any discussion in terms of concealing the
24 weapon?
25 Jeremy Wilkinson: No, he, he, he, he, he's qualified. He knows how to, you know, so I, I
26 wouldn't have to discuss that with him. He knows what to do with it.
27 Other Speaker: Okay.
127 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: Any additional questions for Mr. Wilkinson? No. Okay, uh, then we
2 will go, we will pause the record. And the State's uh, next witness is
3 Ryan Pratt. Mr. Pratt, if you raise your right hand you'll be sworn in.
4 Other Speaker: Do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you are about to
5 give in the matter pending before this Grand Jury shall be the truth,
6 the whole truth and nothing but the truth?
7 Ryan Pratt: I do.
8 Brian Davidson: Okay, go ahead and have a seat, and if you could please, um, state
9 and spell your full name.
10 Ryan Pratt: Uh, Ryan Daniel Pratt. It's R-Y-A-N D-A-N-I-E-L P-R-A-T-T.
11 Brian Davidson: Okay, and, um, Mr. Pratt can you tell us how you're employed?
12 Ryan Pratt: Uh, right now I work for Metro West Ambulance and, uh, just
13 resigned as an intern firefighter so I'm looking for a full-time
14 position.
15 Brian Davidson: As a firefighter or?
16 Ryan Pratt: Yes sir.
17 Brian Davidson: Okay, and is that your training then?
18 Ryan Pratt: Yes.
19 Brian Davidson: Got it. Uh, and, uh, are you from around here?
20 Ryan Pratt: Uh, Eugene and Portland. I went to three different high schools
21 actually so.
22 Brian Davidson: And which one did you graduate from?
23 Ryan Pratt: Uh, North Eugene.
24 Brian Davidson: All right. Uh, that make you an Axe man?
25 Ryan Pratt: Uh, no uh Axe man was South Eugene, I’m a Highlander.
128 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: Highlander. Uh, and uh, my understanding from previous witnesses
2 is that, um, uh, you went, you were in the Navy for a time. Is that
3 right?
4 Ryan Pratt: Right.
5 Brian Davidson: How long were you in the Navy?
6 Ryan Pratt: I was in the Navy for a little under 6 years.
7 Brian Davidson: And, uh, what did you do while you were in the Navy?
8 Ryan Pratt: Uh, aviation ground support mechanic.
9 Brian Davidson: Okay, and when did you get out of the Navy?
10 Ryan Pratt: Let's see, 2005 from active duty and then 2006 from reserves when I
11 joined the Coast Guard for 4 years.
12 Brian Davidson: Oh, so you were also a Coast Guard after?
13 Ryan Pratt: Yes sir, yep.
14 Brian Davidson: Uh, what'd you do in the Coast Guard?
15 Ryan Pratt: Uh, I was doing rescue swimming program and, uh, 4 years as a
16 fireman on shipboard firefighting and that's kinda why I got out to do
17 firefighting so I didn't have to do anymore deployments.
18 Brian Davidson: Okay, uh, have you been deployed?
19 Ryan Pratt: Uh, I've been deployed three times to the Gulf and then three times
20 southern on the Coast Guard ****.
21 Brian Davidson: Okay, now, uh, you are friends with are previous witness, uh, Mr.,
22 uh, Wilkinson. Is that right?
23 Ryan Pratt: Yes, sir.
24 Brian Davidson: How long have you known Mr. Wilkinson?
25 Ryan Pratt: Uh, we met in the Navy. He's my supervisor since, I believe 02 when
26 I got stationed up there, 02 03 roughly.
129 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: Okay, and, um, you're both out of the Navy at this point, continued
2 your friendship, I guess when you both returned to Portland?
3 Ryan Pratt: Yes, sir.
4 Brian Davidson: Okay, and you're also friends with Jason Washington?
5 Ryan Pratt: Yes, sir.
6 Brian Davidson: And how long did you know Jason Washington?
7 Ryan Pratt: Uh, I met Jason on an excursion to, we all went to Vegas to watch
8 the Super Bowl, um, probably 2006 I believe. We all met up down
9 there. That's how I met Jason, maybe 05.
10 Brian Davidson: When you say we all, you mean yourself, Mr. Washington, and
11 Mr. Wilkinson?
12 Ryan Pratt: Oh, no, and probably about 8 or 10 of us.
13 Brian Davidson: Oh, okay.
14 Ryan Pratt: So, all the friends and stuff that watch football together so.
15 Brian Davidson: Got it. Okay, well I think you know you are here –
16 Ryan Pratt: Mm hmm.
17 Brian Davidson: – to talk about this incident that occurred on, back on the 29th of
18 June, uh, it's my understanding that you and Mr., um, Mr., I'm sorry,
19 you and Mr. Wilkinson and, um, Mr. Washington make
20 arrangements to come downtown Portland to watch the Beavers
21 World Series Championship game, is that right?
22 Ryan Pratt: Yes, sir.
23 Brian Davidson: Um, why don't you tell us about kind of who you met up first, how
24 you got down and where you went?
25 Ryan Pratt: Okay, uh, I met up with Jeremy at his place and we called an Uber to
26 come pick us up, um, went to the Cheerful Tortoise where Jason
130 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 walked down. I believe he walked down or got dropped off usually
2 from one of his daughters. Um, and the night started there.
3 Brian Davidson: Okay.
4 Ryan Pratt: Uh, it was completely dead so we're like, oh this will be boring so
5 we went on down to Buffalo Wild Wings.
6 Brian Davidson: Um, before you get there, how long do you think you were at the
7 Cheerful Tortoise?
8 Ryan Pratt: The first time?
9 Brian Davidson: Yes.
10 Ryan Pratt: Beginning of the night? Maybe 10 minutes, 20 minutes at most.
11 Brian Davidson: And what time did you arrive there?
12 Ryan Pratt: I'm not a hundred percent but I’d guess about an hour and a half
13 before the game starts, so maybe 1:30 I think. The game started at 3 I
14 think. I'm not completely sure what time but right around that time.
15 Brian Davidson: And, um, did you drink anything while you were there?
16 Ryan Pratt: Yeah, we had one beer.
17 Brian Davidson: All three of you?
18 Ryan Pratt: Yep.
19 Brian Davidson: Okay, all right, uh, and then you said you went to Buffalo Wild
20 Wings?
21 Ryan Pratt: Yes, sir.
22 Brian Davidson: And, um, do you know when you arrived there? Approximately 2:00
23 or so, maybe or?
24 Ryan Pratt: Yeah, I'd say around 2.
25 Brian Davidson: And what did you do while you were there?
131 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Ryan Pratt: Uh, we got food, uh, probably had another drink or two, um, got
2 interviewed by, I forget what news reporter his name is, **** it was
3 pretty awesome.
4 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
5 Ryan Pratt: Uh, we watched the Oregon State Beavers win the national title and
6 hung out as friends which I hadn't seen in, Jason in probably about
7 8 months 'cause I had been so busy with my internship. So, it was
8 kinda a reunion which turned out to be an event.
9 Brian Davidson: Uh, how long do you think you were at the Buffalo Wild Wings?
10 Ryan Pratt: Uh, for the whole game.
11 Brian Davidson: And, well, were you there before the game started?
12 Ryan Pratt: Well, yeah, sorry. Um, we got there right before the game started,
13 probably 15 minutes I think. Um, that's when we got interviewed and
14 then I think they interviewed us again. Um, so maybe 'til 530 I think,
15 roughly 3 hours for baseball games.
16 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
17 Ryan Pratt: Maybe 6, I'm not completely sure though.
18 Brian Davidson: Okay, and, um, you had some food you said.
19 Ryan Pratt: Mm hmm.
20 Brian Davidson: Um, what do you recall drinking at the Buffalo Wild Wings?
21 Ryan Pratt: Uh, well I pretty much only drink light beer so does Jeremy. That's
22 pretty much what we drink, say Bud Light.
23 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
24 Ryan Pratt: Um, I don't recall what everybody else drank. I mean I know what I
25 drink, but I don't really monitor my friends so.
26 Brian Davidson: Okay, uh, so how many drinks do you think you had, beers?
27 Ryan Pratt: Two or three there, four. I know I did.
132 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: Okay, and did you also had some hard liquor?
2 Ryan Pratt: Oh, we had two shots throughout the whole night.
3 Brian Davidson: Uh, each?
4 Ryan Pratt: Correct.
5 Brian Davidson: And, uh, what kind of liquor was that?
6 Ryan Pratt: I don't remember. I just know it was Jason's favorite kind.
7 Brian Davidson: Okay, um, so, um, what did you decide to do when you were done
8 with, uh, Buffalo Wild Wings?
9 Ryan Pratt: Uh, we were gonna walk back up to Cheerful but then we decided to
10 stop by the Rialto.
11 Brian Davidson: Okay, where is Rialto at in relation to Buffalo Wild Wings?
12 Ryan Pratt: Uh, a block away. It's on Fourth and Alder.
13 Brian Davidson: And did you go directly there from Buffalo Wild Wings?
14 Ryan Pratt: Yep.
15 Brian Davidson: Why did you decide to go to Rialto?
16 Ryan Pratt: Uh, so I'm a poker dealer on the side. I've been doing it for 8 years
17 and I know that they got a poker game there and a lot, sometimes my
18 friends are in there so we decided to swing by there and play poker.
19 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
20 Ryan Pratt: Which me and Jeremy does but Jason doesn't so he sat at the bar by
21 himself.
22 Brian Davidson: Okay, um, so, uh, you and Mr. Wilkinson were playing cards?
23 Ryan Pratt: Correct.
24 Brian Davidson: Texas Hold 'Em is my understanding?
25 Ryan Pratt: Correct.
26 Brian Davidson: Uh, and how long do you think you were at the Rialto?
27 Ryan Pratt: Uh, maybe 2 hours.
133 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: Two hours? Okay, and uh -
2 Ryan Pratt: 3 at most, somewhere around there.
3 Brian Davidson: Okay, and so you and Mr. Wilkinson were at the card table and
4 Mr. Washington was at the bar?
5 Ryan Pratt: Correct.
6 Brian Davidson: And did you have more drinks, uh, while you were there?
7 Ryan Pratt: I did.
8 Brian Davidson: You did not?
9 Ryan Pratt: I did.
10 Brian Davidson: You did, okay, uh, how many more drinks did you have?
11 Ryan Pratt: Well, I know I had at least another beer and then I had a, uh, mixed
12 Jack and coke.
13 Brian Davidson: Okay, and do you know what, if anything, um, Mr. Wilkinson or
14 Mr. Washington was drinking?
15 Ryan Pratt: No.
16 Brian Davidson: So, at some point, um, there was a disturbance –
17 Ryan Pratt: Mm hmm.
18 Brian Davidson: – involving, um, Rialto staff-
19 Ryan Pratt: Mm hmm.
20 Brian Davidson: In which yourself, Mr. Wilkinson, Mr. Washington were asked to
21 leave. Is that right?
22 Ryan Pratt: Yep.
23 Brian Davidson: Can you tell us kind of what you know about why that occurred?
24 Ryan Pratt: Yep, so after we left is actually when I found out what had happened
25 'cause I had no idea what was going on in the moment, that they
26 were just asking Jeremy to leave and he kinda got in an altercation
27 with the bouncer, um, found out later on that apparently they were
134 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 talking about political views and the bartender there, female said,
2 "I'm not gonna serve you guys because you're Trump supporters" or
3 something, which I'm not.
4 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
5 Ryan Pratt: I don't know if Jeremy and Jason are, uh, I don't really vote actually.
6 It's kinda bad, but, um, that's apparently, that’s why we got asked to
7 leave.
8 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. That's what Jason said to you guys?
9 Ryan Pratt: That's what they were talking about on the way up, yeah, that they
10 got asked to leave 'cause of difference in political views.
11 Brian Davidson: Ah, okay.
12 Ryan Pratt: And I'm not gonna serve you anymore. Which, I don't understand
13 why but.
14 Brian Davidson: Okay, um, did you observe the altercation between Mr. Wilkinson
15 and the, and the bouncer?
16 Ryan Pratt: At the very end I did.
17 Brian Davidson: Okay, so what did you –
18 Ryan Pratt: I just saw him –
19 Brian Davidson: What did you see?
20 Ryan Pratt: – I saw the bouncer push Jeremy to the ground and that's when I got
21 up 'cause that's my best friend and I told him get his hands off him
22 and he's like, "Well you want some of this?" And he started
23 threatening me and he's like, "You guys need to get the hell out of
24 here."
25 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
26 Ryan Pratt: And one of my buddies who was playing poker with us that night
27 comes up to me 'cause he's a friend of mine and he comes to my club
135 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 all the time, he's like, "Dude just go. Just go. I'll take care of this."
2 He's like, "I know you got chips on it. I'll bring it to you at the club
3 in money." And we just, we just left.
4 Brian Davidson: Okay, uh, did you see anything that Mr. Wilkinson had done to the
5 bouncer?
6 Ryan Pratt: No.
7 Brian Davidson: All right.
8 Ryan Pratt: So, I'm sayin' is all I saw is the very ending of it 'cause we were on
9 opposite sides of the table.
10 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
11 Ryan Pratt: I just saw him push Jeremy to the ground and it caught my attention.
12 Brian Davidson: Got it, um, so at some point were you aware that, um, Mr. Wilkinson
13 was ah carrying a semiautomatic pistol with him?
14 Ryan Pratt: Yes.
15 Brian Davidson: And when did you become aware of that?
16 Ryan Pratt: Uh, at Cheerful when he sat down I, I noticed it.
17 Brian Davidson: Oh, you saw it?
18 Ryan Pratt: I did see it.
19 Brian Davidson: Okay, uh.
20 Ryan Pratt: When his shirt came up it would, you could see the holster, the
21 bottom of the holster.
22 Brian Davidson: Okay, and you know Mr. Wilkinson to carry a firearm?
23 Ryan Pratt: Usually not.
24 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
25 Ryan Pratt: Um, so I was actually kind of thrown off by it, but I did know that
26 him and Jason were open carriers. I am not myself.
27 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
136 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Ryan Pratt: I do not believe in having guns, but, um, I did know that he carried a
2 gun.
3 Brian Davidson: Okay, and during this altercation at the, um, Rialto was, um,
4 Mr. Wilkinson's firearm brought up in any way?
5 Ryan Pratt: I know that he had mentioned that he lifted his shirt or something
6 like that. I know the guy had said something about, "Well I got one
7 too. What does that mean?" Or whatever, and then that's when we
8 were asked to leave and we left.
9 Brian Davidson: So Mr. Wilkinson had told you he had lifted his shirt like to show
10 that he was carrying?
11 Ryan Pratt: I just remember Jeremy telling me that he, his gun got exposed.
12 Brian Davidson: Okay.
13 Ryan Pratt: By his shirt being lifted. That's all I remember.
14 Brian Davidson: Okay, did you have any conversation with Mr. Wilkinson about the
15 fact that he was carrying a gun at that point?
16 Ryan Pratt: Not really. No.
17 Brian Davidson: No? Okay.
18 Ryan Pratt: I mean to each his own but do I approve of it? I, I personally like I
19 said myself, I wouldn't carry it but I think they're both responsible,
20 Navy veterans, they can carry it if they want to, so.
21 Brian Davidson: Okay, uh, so after you left the um, the Rialto, what was the decision
22 about what you were going to do next?
23 Ryan Pratt: Go to Cheerful.
24 Brian Davidson: Okay.
25 Ryan Pratt: 'Cause it was on the way up. So we were like oh, we'll go back to
26 Cheerful.
137 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. And, and what, did the mood changed at that point ‘cause
2 of the altercation with the bartender or?
3 Ryan Pratt: Uh, I mean obviously you're not gonna be happy when you leave a
4 situation like that, um, it maybe carried for the next 2 minutes of
5 conversation and then they started talking about things.
6 Brian Davidson: Okay.
7 Ryan Pratt: I mean, but when you leave that situation it's not instantly just you're
8 gonna be like, you're not gonna talk about it. So they were upset –
9 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
10 Ryan Pratt: – and they talked about it, um, but it didn't carry all the way up to the
11 Cheerful Tortoise.
12 Brian Davidson: Okay, uh, so what happened when you arrived at the Cheerful
13 Tortoise?
14 Ryan Pratt: Uh, we got a little table on the, what would be the north side of
15 Cheerful Tortoise, next to the pool table which we usually always
16 do. Um, I decided to play pool, um, with just random, random
17 people.
18 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
19 Ryan Pratt: And Jeremy and Jason decided to, they just had conversation which I
20 don't know what they talked about at that time.
21 Brian Davidson: All right, did you have more cocktails or beers?
22 Ryan Pratt: I did.
23 Brian Davidson: What did you have?
24 Ryan Pratt: Uh, a couple more beers throughout the night, the next hour or two.
25 Brian Davidson: And do you know if Jason or Mr. Wilkinso, you’re not sure?
26 Ryan Pratt: No.
27 Brian Davidson: You not sure.
138 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Ryan Pratt: No.
2 Brian Davidson: Um, so at some point, um, a dispute developed between
3 Mr. Wilkinson and some other patrons in the Cheerful Tortoise.
4 What were you, I mean, kind of when were you first aware that
5 something was amiss in that regard?
6 Ryan Pratt: Okay, um, well, kind of embarrassing, um, sometimes I do blackout,
7 but from what I remember of that night, um, it wasn't 'til I was pretty
8 much almost across the street that I remember the altercation.
9 Brian Davidson: Okay.
10 Ryan Pratt: Um, apparently it had happened slightly inside the bar I'm hearing
11 from different people and then they came back in asking me to cash
12 out.
13 Brian Davidson: Who's they?
14 Ryan Pratt: Jeremy, Jeremy and Jason said, "Hey we're gonna go." We're gonna
15 catch, we called an Uber. I don't remember that.
16 Brian Davidson: Okay.
17 Ryan Pratt: Jeremy told me he said that.
18 Brian Davidson: Let's, let's put it, let's talk about that a little bit.
19 Ryan Pratt: Okay.
20 Brian Davidson: So at this point in the evening were you so intoxicated that you were
21 at blackout?
22 Ryan Pratt: I blackout easy actually, um, and all my friends will even say like,
23 "You act perfectly normal."
24 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
25 Ryan Pratt: "You seem fine. You're not stumbling around. You're not slurring
26 your words." It just goes.
27 Brian Davidson: Okay.
139 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Ryan Pratt: And I don't remember a lot and then later on that night I'll start to
2 remember again ****.
3 Brian Davidson: So where are you at at that point in your estimation, were you in a
4 like um, waking, blackout from alcohol?
5 Ryan Pratt: Yeah, I was intoxicated.
6 Brian Davidson: Okay. So on a scale of, for example, give us some context, uh, a
7 scale of 0 to 10, 0 being stone cold sober –
8 Ryan Pratt: Mm hmm.
9 Brian Davidson: – and 10 being the most intoxicated you've ever been, where do you
10 think you were on that scale?
11 Ryan Pratt: Ever been? Well I was probably a 6 that night then.
12 Brian Davidson: So, for you a 6 is a blackout?
13 Ryan Pratt: Mm hmm.
14 Brian Davidson: Okay.
15 Ryan Pratt: But I mean, I was in the Navy 6 years, so I definitely had many other
16 times that probably drink a little too much.
17 Brian Davidson: Okay. And were you able to see whether or not, uh, Mr. Wilkinson
18 and Mr. Washington were in similar states?
19 Ryan Pratt: No.
20 Brian Davidson: No you couldn't perceive it, or no they were not?
21 Ryan Pratt: Oh, I mean I knew they had drinked but, I, I know when Jason's
22 super drunk, he stumbles. Um, and I know when Jeremy's super
23 drunk, because I've just known him for 15 years. Do I think they
24 were that night? No.
25 Brian Davidson: Okay.
26 Ryan Pratt: I mean but for me I was.
140 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: Got it. So, I'm sorry, you were telling me that you, you think you
2 may have blacked out a little bit, but your first recollection of their
3 being a problem –
4 Ryan Pratt: Okay.
5 Brian Davidson: – was when Mr. Wilkinson and Mr. Washington came back in the
6 bar to tell you that you were leaving?
7 Ryan Pratt: No.
8 Brian Davidson: Maybe walk me through that again.
9 Ryan Pratt: That's fine. So the day after, or whatever after the event happened, I
10 asked him how did I leave the bar, because I don't remember leaving
11 the bar.
12 Brian Davidson: You asked Mr. Wilkinson?
13 Ryan Pratt: Yes, and I said do you have my card? Well I ended up finding my
14 card later on in my pants pocket, I thought I left it there. But my first
15 recollection of what had happened was when I came outside, I saw
16 him and the guy in the red shirt, which I don't know his name, were a
17 couple of feet apart and Jason had him like this, telling him let's go.
18 Brian Davidson: Had Mr. Wilkinson?
19 Ryan Pratt: Correct.
20 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. Okay.
21 Ryan Pratt: And that's when we all three walked across, up the street
22 Brian Davidson: Okay.
23 Ryan Pratt: On the other side, and that's when I thought it was over, and that's
24 when I walked ahead of the group.
25 Brian Davidson: Okay. And where'd you guys go from there, when you thought it was
26 over?
141 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Ryan Pratt: We were walking what westbound on, I don't know what street that
2 is, there in front of the Cheerful –
3 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
4 Ryan Pratt: – it's like a little mini mart, and we started walking that way.
5 Brian Davidson: Okay, so like on westbound and College maybe?
6 Ryan Pratt: Westbound and College sounds about right.
7 Brian Davidson: Okay, and so you think the, you think the altercation is over at this
8 point?
9 Ryan Pratt: At that moment I thought the alter, altercation had stopped.
10 Brian Davidson: And do you,, did you ever listen to what the altercation seemed to be
11 about, I mean what were people saying, what seemed to be making
12 people angry–
13 Ryan Pratt: Honest, honestly, at that moment, I didn't –
14 Brian Davidson: Okay.
15 Ryan Pratt: – I just thought two guys probably got into some kind of bar
16 argument, I just wanted to get, get away from it, so in that moment, I
17 didn't need to ar-, figure out what had happened, I just wanted it to
18 end and for us to walk away from it.
19 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. All right. So, uh, what happened next?
20 Ryan Pratt: Uh, so from my bes-, bestt recollection is, uh, all I remember is a cell
21 phone slamming on the ground in front of me, and which I thought
22 was mine, so I reached in my pocket to look at my cell phone, all I
23 hear is gun, and then I hear, which I thought was only four shots, but
24 it ended up being I believe eight.
25 Brian Davidson: So you heard someone say "gun?"
26 Ryan Pratt: All I heard was gun, and then instantly, open fire.
142 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: All right, and were you aware that the police were on scene at that
2 point?
3 Ryan Pratt: Well I thought, sorry I should back up. I actually thought it was just
4 campus security, because then at no point I heard police, all I heard
5 was some kind of scuffle and I looked over and I saw two guys with
6 black uniforms, which weren't doing anything other than allowing
7 Jason to break up the fight, which I barely remember that, I just
8 remember thinking they were campus security and that's it.
9 Brian Davidson: Why'd you think they were campus security?
10 Ryan Pratt: Because I didn't hear them announce anything.
11 Brian Davidson: Okay.
12 Ryan Pratt: To the, I didn't find out from 5 days later that they were Portland
13 State Police Officers, I didn't even know they had police officers for
14 Portland State University.
15 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. Uh, so, back me up a little bit –
16 Ryan Pratt: Mm hmm.
17 Brian Davidson: – farther, um, are you aware that Mr. Wilkinson and this other
18 individual are like in a fist fight at this point, do you, do youobserve
19 any of that?
20 Ryan Pratt: No.
21 Brian Davidson: Um, so what did you observe? How –
22 Ryan Pratt: I saw, I saw them push each other one time, but I didn't see any fists
23 being thrown.
24 Brian Davidson: All right. Just kinda walk us through –
25 Ryan Pratt: Okay.
26 Brian Davidson: – um, what you recall.
143 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Ryan Pratt: Okay. So when I, what I recall is when I crossed the street, I just
2 remember seeing them in, in each other's face, I remember them
3 doing a push altercation or whatever and I see Jason step in, and then
4 from that point, my next recollection is seeing the cops, which I find
5 out later they were cops, but at that moment I thought they were
6 security guards, they weren't really breaking up the fight, allowing
7 Jason, and then after that incident, the next thing I remember is
8 hearing gun and hearing four gun shots go off, which I found out
9 later it was more than that, 'cause I literally thought there was only
10 four gun shots.
11 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. All right. And so what'd you do at that point? Did you
12 know what had happened or –
13 Ryan Pratt: It took me a little bit to figure out what happened and who had been
14 shot, and I remember yelling, who's shot, who's shot, and then I
15 remember seeing Jason on the ground, and I identified myself as a
16 first responder, and the police officer wouldn't let me go to my
17 friend, and I asked him several times, and he kept his gun pointed on
18 me.
19 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. Uh, what about Mr. Wilkinson, did you see where
20 Mr. Wilkinson was –
21 Ryan Pratt: I didn't –
22 Brian Davidson: – or the guy he was having the altercation with?
23 Ryan Pratt: I didn't. I didn't find out later until he was kicked and knocked out
24 until the 2 days later when I saw the video.
25 Brian Davidson: Yeah. Um, at some point Mr. Washington uh, ended up with
26 Mr. Wilkinson's gun, uh, do you know, did you observe that or know
27 how that occurred?
144 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Ryan Pratt: No.
2 Brian Davidson: The last time you saw the gun it was in the possession of
3 Mr. Wilkinson?
4 Ryan Pratt: Yeah, 'cause 2 days later when I talked to Jeremy I had mentioned, I
5 thought Jason didn't have his gun on him. He's like Jason didn't. I'm
6 like well then why do you see in the video Jason having a gun on his
7 hip, and Jeremy's like that was my gun, I handed it over to him.
8 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
9 Ryan Pratt: So I had no clue that they had passed his weapon.
10 Brian Davidson: Okay.
11 Ryan Pratt: Until I had asked Jeremy about it.
12 Brian Davidson: Um, did you see Mr. Washington pointing the gun or with the gun in
13 his hand during any of this?
14 Ryan Pratt: No.
15 Brian Davidson: Do you remember hearing the officers yelling "drop the gun, drop
16 the gun"?
17 Ryan Pratt: No. I just remember hearing gun, and then like I said, gun fire.
18 Brian Davidson: Do you remember the officers yelling "we will shoot you if you don't
19 drop the gun?"
20 Ryan Pratt: No. I s-, I've seen videos and I don't think they say that do they?
21 Brian Davidson: ****.
22 Ryan Pratt: Oh, okay.
23 Brian Davidson: Okay. Um, questions from the grand jury? No. Okay. You can go off
24 the record. All right, we'll back on the record and the state will call
25 its next witness, Donald Dietz to ah testify. Mt. Dietz, If you will
26 stand next to that black chair and raise your right hand and they'll
27 swear you in.
145 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Other Speaker: Do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you are about to
2 give in the matter pending before this Grand Jury shall be the truth,
3 the whole truth and nothing but the truth?
4 Donald Dietz: I do.
5 Brian Davidson: Go ahead and have a seat. And if you wouldn't mind stating and
6 spelling your full name for us please.
7 Donald Dietz: Uh, Donald Dietz, D-O-N-A-L-D D-I-E-T-Z.
8 Brian Davidson: Okay. And Mr. Dietz, ah how old are you?
9 Donald Dietz: I'm 25.
10 Brian Davidson: And how are you employed?
11 Donald Dietz: I work for the Cheerful Tortoise and the Cheerful Bullpen, both bars
12 there, and they just have me do whatever they need, so that night I
13 was working the door in the kitchen, but I also serve there too.
14 Brian Davidson: I'm sorry, you do what?
15 Donald Dietz: I also serve there too.
16 Brian Davidson: Like, uh –
17 Donald Dietz: Like, a like a server, yeah.
18 Brian Davidson: Okay. And how long have you been, uh, an employee with the
19 Cheerful organization?
20 Donald Dietz: As a door guy, just like about a year and a half, but full time it's only
21 been a couple of months.
22 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. And what are the responsibilities of a, a door guy, as you
23 refer to it?
24 Donald Dietz: Um, I take, well like that night we have a cover, because we have
25 drink specials and stuff, so I take the cover from everybody and, uh,
26 I help set up and break down the little mini bar that we have and
27 stuff, and, uh, most of the time I'm the one that's like out on the floor
146 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 with everybody, so if something happens, even though it's not
2 technically my responsibility, I kinda have to break it up and stuff.
3 Brian Davidson: Okay. Um, so this night there was a drink special, we're talking
4 about the, it would have been the evening of the June 28th, into the
5 early morning of June 29th –
6 Donald Dietz: Yeah, up until midnight we have dollars beers, 8:00 to midnight,
7 and, but there's a $3.00 cover to get in.
8 Brian Davidson: Got it, all right. So, um, was it a fairly typical evening up to the point
9 that it wasn't?
10 Donald Dietz: Yes. Uh, regular, about the regular crowd, it was a little bit more of a
11 crowd because it was the last, uh, week that the, a lot of the kids
12 were in the, the student housing buildings and stuff, but, other than
13 that, yeah, pretty typical.
14 Brian Davidson: So, um, do you get a lot of business from PSU students?
15 Donald Dietz: Yes.
16 Brian Davidson: Because you're quite close to campus?
17 Donald Dietz: We're basically on campus, yeah.
18 Brian Davidson: All right. So, um, when's the first time you recall something going
19 on that was concerning in relation to this, this two groups of people?
20 Donald Dietz: Well, uh, that night in particular, I just happened to be there past
21 midnight, because I was just been hired on full time, and so I was
22 training in the kitchen, and, uh, so I was back in the kitchen, so I
23 didn't really see a lot, I just, I mean I didn't really hear a lot, but I
24 saw a couple of groups of people, you know, going, getting towards
25 each other and, and having words and getting in each other's faces
26 and so, uh, that, that was probably around like, maybe 1:15 –
27 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
147 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Donald Dietz: – in the morning and –
2 Brian Davidson: Can you describe these two groups?
3 Donald Dietz: Yeah, it was, uh, a group of, uh, young regulars that come in all the
4 time and then, uh, a few guys that I've only seen for the first time,
5 middle-aged guys.
6 Brian Davidson: Okay, and the group of young regulars, do you know their names or
7 –
8 Donald Dietz: Yes, I know a few of their names, I, I'm not, or what might be
9 nicknames, I don't –
10 Brian Davidson: Can you maybe fill us in?
11 Donald Dietz: Uh, one of them, uh, his name's, everyone calls him Moe, I'm not,
12 that d-, I'm sure that's not his full name –
13 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
14 Donald Dietz: – but, uh –
15 Brian Davidson: Is it Mohamed Tuffa, is that –
16 Donald Dietz: Yeah, yeah, that is, ’cause he's called back later.
17 Brian Davidson: And is he a white guy, African-American –
18 Donald Dietz: Uh, he's African American, yeah, and then, uh, another guy,
19 everyone calls him YT, uh, I don't know his full name.
20 Brian Davidson: Also, Yt’s a African American guy?
21 Donald Dietz: Yeah.
22 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
23 Donald Dietz: And then, uh, there was, there's this one guy that, that comes in, big
24 tall white guy, I never learned his name –
25 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
26 Donald Dietz: – uh, blonde guy, he's a little, little bit taller than me, about like 6 3–
27 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
148 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Donald Dietz: – maybe.
2 Brian Davidson: Do you remember what he was wearing?
3 Donald Dietz: I think it was like a blue, like sweatshirt, like, like almost like, like, I,
4 I, I, I can't recall if, a hundred percent, and some shorts.
5 Brian Davidson: Right.
6 Donald Dietz: I think.
7 Brian Davidson: So that was one of the groups?
8 Donald Dietz: Yes.
9 Brian Davidson: All right, and, uh, what was the other, you said middle-aged guys?
10 Donald Dietz: Yeah, middle-aged guys. One of them, uh, I noticed on his I.D. it
11 was like his birthday I think and they came into, they, I remember
12 they argued about paying the cover because A, it was his birthday,
13 and B, they were like, ****you guys don’t have a veteran discount
14 or something like that?
15 Brian Davidson: They were veterans?
16 Donald Dietz: Yeah.
17 Brian Davidson: Yeah, do you think you can remember which branch of the service
18 they s-?
19 Donald Dietz: No.
20 Brian Davidson: No. Okay. So what, what, what did you observe in the way of
21 conflict, how do you know these two groups were having conflict
22 inside the bar?
23 Donald Dietz: Um, I saw them, like I said, I was, I was pretty head down in the
24 kitchen and, I, our expo window is a little bit below where my chin
25 rests, and so I was like bending down and then I looked up real quick
26 and I saw some guys getting in each other's face and one of my
27 bartenders, hopping out from the end of the bar to try to split them
149 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 up and so, uh, that's when I knew that probably something was
2 happening. So –
3 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
4 Donald Dietz: – I, I kinda came out from the kitchen real quick and, then that's
5 kinda when they dispersed a little bit.
6 Brian Davidson: Did you have to disperse them or kinda dispersed on their own?
7 Donald Dietz: Um, I, I, from what I remember it was, they had, one, one of the, I
8 think it was Jason actually, uh –
9 Brian Davidson: Jason?
10 Donald Dietz: I don't know his last name, I just know ****–
11 Brian Davidson: The person who was shot?
12 Donald Dietz: Yes.
13 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
14 Donald Dietz: And, uh, But the was trying to get his friend out, uh, and the, the, the
15 young regulars that are there a lot, uh, were kinda talking to each
16 other and so I was just trying to keep the regulars back, because they
17 know me and they, we have a little bit of a rapport and whenever I
18 tell them to calm down, most of the time, they do it, and but they
19 were pretty amped up that night. And, uh, so when they got, we, I, I,
20 I, to my understanding, they got the, uh, Jason and his friends out the
21 door and then I just told the other group that was trying to fight them
22 that they were still in the bar somewhere so they wouldn't go outside
23 looking for them.
24 Brian Davidson: Right.
25 Donald Dietz: And, uh, I was just trying to kill as much time as I could.
26 Brian Davidson: To allow –
27 Donald Dietz: To allow –
150 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: – this group –
2 Donald Dietz: – yeah Jason and his group to get out, yeah.
3 Brian Davidson: – to get out. Um, the friend that Jason was trying to keep back –
4 Donald Dietz: Mm hmm.
5 Brian Davidson: – um, can you describe him? What was he wearing for example?
6 Donald Dietz: Ooh, I can't, I can't exactly remember what he was wearing, he had, I
7 think, I think he had like, like maybe I think he had khaki shorts on –
8 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
9 Donald Dietz: – and it was a, uh, a middle-aged guy, white, bald, uh, can't exactly
10 remember what he was wearing.
11 Brian Davidson: Okay. Um, at some point did you, had you heard that, maybe
12 someone in Jason's group had used the "N' word in relation –
13 Donald Dietz: I –
14 Brian Davidson: – to somebody?
15 Donald Dietz: – I did not hear them say it, I heard that it was said, uh –
16 Brian Davidson: Where did you, where di you hear
17 Donald Dietz: – from, from my coworkers.
18 Brian Davidson: From your c, what, why don't you tell us what you, what you heard,
19 Donald Dietz: I was, well, but first and foremost, they were already, you know, in
20 the conflict which means that whatever was said happened before I
21 got there.
22 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
23 Donald Dietz: Uh, and then my first thought was to try to break it up and not really
24 find out why it was happenin', just make sure nothin' cra, too crazy
25 happened. And then afterwards I found out that, uh, from the, from
26 Moe that, when I was tryin' to keep them in the bar –
27 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
151 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Donald Dietz: – he said, uh, I asked him what, w, what's goin' on and he told me
2 that, uh, he was yellin' the N word out to him and stuff.
3 Brian Davidson: Who was he indicating, do you know?
4 Donald Dietz: The, uh, the, the bald guy, the, the –
5 Brian Davidson: The friend or Jason?
6 Donald Dietz: – white, yeah, Jason's friend, yeah.
7 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. Okay. All right, so what happens next?
8 Donald Dietz: Well, um, they went, the, the, the group of young regulars went and
9 tried to like look all around the bar including like the back of our
10 kitchen and then went out the back door. And they didn't see 'em
11 from the back door and the back door locks automatically, it's like an
12 emergency exit, and so he was bangin' on our door to try to get back
13 in to try to find him. Moe was.
14 Brian Davidson: Who was?
15 Donald Dietz: Moe was.
16 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
17 Donald Dietz: And, uh, at that point I, I, I was, I was just tryin' to you know, keep
18 them, keep them occupied, so I opened the door real quick but didn't
19 let 'em back in the bar.
20 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
21 Donald Dietz: I was trying to occupy their time as much as I could by talking to
22 'em.
23 Brian Davidson: 'Kay.
24 Donald Dietz: Yeah.
25 Brian Davidson: Uh, what happened next?
26 Donald Dietz: Uh, I went back inside to let the, the people behind the bar know
27 'cause they're the managers on duty, what was going on and at that
152 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 point, I heard the, the, another one of my servers came in. I can't, I
2 can't remember who it was, came in and told me that somethin' was
3 goin' on outside, and so I figured I should go out there,
4 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
5 Donald Dietz: Try to stop it. Um, I –
6 Brian Davidson: Did you know it involved the same group of people or just this guy?
7 Donald Dietz: Yeah, no, I knew it was the same group of people, they told me. And
8 then I also heard, uh, that, uh, he was like flashing a gun or that a
9 gun w, had come out at some point.
10 Brian Davidson: Who was telling you this?
11 Donald Dietz: My, uh, one of my servers. I, I think, I think it was my, my, my
12 coworker Courtney, it mighta been.
13 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. Anduh did she indicate, uh, who was flashing a gun?
14 Donald Dietz: No. She just said that, that, she didn't specify, she just said that there
15 was a gun in play.
16 Brian Davidson: Okay. So what happened, uh, well, did you guys make a decision to
17 call the police at that point?
18 Donald Dietz: Oh, the, they were called, yeah. Uh, they were called, I think maybe
19 right before that or, or, or when we found out there was a gun, we,
20 we called 'em immediately.
21 Brian Davidson: Do you know who called?
22 Donald Dietz: Uh, oh, as a matter of fact it was after we, uh, discov, after, after we
23 found out there was a gun, I told my coworker, Michelle, to call the
24 police and so she did. The bartender.
25 Brian Davidson: So did you go out at that point?
26 Donald Dietz: Yeah.
27 Brian Davidson: And –
153 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Donald Dietz: Um –
2 Brian Davidson: – what'd you observe?
3 Donald Dietz: I observed, uh, Jason was holdin' his buddy, uh, the one that called
4 out the racial slur in the first place back and everybody was kind of
5 followin' them down the street a little bit across the street.
6 Brian Davidson: Which direction?
7 Donald Dietz: Kind of like in front of Mak's Mini Mart-
8 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
9 Donald Dietz: There. Uh, this woulda been across 6th, I think or College,
10 whichever one. And, uh, they were following, uh, Jason and his
11 buddies down the street and taunting him because they, they were,
12 they were askin' him if he had his permit for his gun and daring him
13 to use it and stuff.
14 Brian Davidson: So they seemed to be aware that somebody had a gun.
15 Donald Dietz: They, they were very aware that Jason had a gun **** –
16 Brian Davidson: All right. So they were taunting Jason about?
17 Donald Dietz: Yes.
18 Brian Davidson: Okay. Well, you remember what they were saying exactly, do you
19 have a recollection?
20 Donald Dietz: Uh, they, they were like, the, I, I remember Moe in particular had his
21 phone out and was tryin' to bait him and said stuff like, uh, like show
22 me your CC permit and what are you gonna use it, shoot me and,
23 and, and stuff like that. Uh, the taller white guy that was a part of the
24 young group of regulars, uh, was sayin', was daring him to shoot him
25 and stuff like that.
26 Brian Davidson: Hmm. How many guys were, uh, associated with Jason's group, do
27 you know?
154 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Donald Dietz: 3
2 Brian Davidson: Jason and his friend who seems to be the primary focus of anger,
3 was there another person?
4 Donald Dietz: There was one more. I'd, uh, I, is about mid, mid height –
5 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
6 Donald Dietz: – uh, kinda skinny, uh, I think he's a brunette, he was wearin' a hat, I
7 don't know, the **** –
8 Brian Davidson: Okay. Was he doing anything during all of this, or?
9 Donald Dietz: Uh, he was in and out tryin' to break it up. He would stand, when
10 they got too close he would stand in and put his hands out but then
11 kinda back off and then he followed his friends.
12 Brian Davidson: All right. So what happened next?
13 Donald Dietz: Uh, well, Jason's friend, uh, called out the racial slurs, wiz –
14 Brian Davidson: Do you hear him call racial slurs?
15 Donald Dietz: Well, well, that I heard called out to, that, that, that –
16 Brian Davidson: Right.
17 Donald Dietz: – that I was informed called out the racial slurs.
18 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
19 Donald Dietz: Uh, when, finally, fi, in front of Jason's, like holding him back, uh,
20 his attempts to restrain him I guess, and, uh, then a fight started with,
21 between him and Moe and –
22 Brian Davidson: Do you know what, inst-, you know, what was the, I guess the, was
23 there something specific that happened that precipitated the fight at
24 that moment, do you know?
25 Donald Dietz: Um, no, I'm, I'm, uh, I, I don't know specifically from that moment.
26 From what I understand, Moe was still upset about the racial slurs.
27 Brian Davidson: Okay.
155 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Donald Dietz: And, uh, you know, like I said, he fought across Jason's attempts to
2 restrain him and they started fighting. And, uh, Moe knocked him
3 over, uh, Jason's friend, the bald guy. Uh, he got back up and like
4 they just kept goin'. And, uh, you know, at this point, it was at that
5 point during the middle of this fight at, uh, that the police, uh, kinda
6 pulled up.
7 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
8 Donald Dietz: Well, the PSU Police.
9 Brian Davidson: And what did they pull up in?
10 Donald Dietz: Uh, uh, the police vehicle, uh, like a squad car.
11 Brian Davidson: Did you recognize it as a –
12 Donald Dietz: Yes.
13 Brian Davidson: – police vehicle?
14 Donald Dietz: Absolutely. Um, they identified themselves when they got there too
15 as police.
16 Brian Davidson: In what way?
17 Donald Dietz: Uh, they, well they told 'em to stop and tha, they, I heard the word
18 police yelled out and I'm pretty sure it was them. Uh, I was kinda
19 focused on the fight but, uh, I, you know, I saw 'em pull up, saw 'em
20 get out of their cars. Uh, and then at this point, you know, the fight
21 continues. The, the taller white guy, uh, that was part of the group of
22 young black regulars that came in, he, uh, kicked, uh, Jason's friend
23 in the face and knocked him clean out.
24 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
25 Donald Dietz: Uh, and that didn't stop people from still beatin' him up. Like, the, he
26 was out and peop, like I think it was Moe, kept punchin' him. Uh,
156 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 and at that point, that's when Jason came over and tried to push him
2 off. And that's when –
3 Brian Davidson: Who was Jason tryin' to push off?
4 Donald Dietz: Uh, Moe.
5 Brian Davidson: Moe?
6 Donald Dietz: And at that point, uh, is when, uh, his gun fell out of his pocket.
7 Brian Davidson: Did you see that?
8 Donald Dietz: I did, I saw it fall out.
9 Brian Davidson: And, and, uh, is that the first time you were aware that
10 Mr. Washington had a gun on him?
11 Donald Dietz: No. I was informed before and I saw it hanging out of his pocket
12 ****.
13 Brian Davidson: So when's his, when you actually saw it?
14 Donald Dietz: When I first went outside and they were across the street –
15 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
16 Donald Dietz: – uh, in fronta Mak's, uh, Mini Market there, uh –
17 Brian Davidson: You could see it hangin' out of his pocket?
18 Donald Dietz: Yeah.
19 Brian Davidson: Um, so you, back to where you were, you indicated that it fell out of
20 his pocket. How did that happen?
21 Donald Dietz: It was when he went to push Moe off of his buddy that was knocked
22 out, even though he was still, Moe had him in a choke hold when the
23 other guy kicked him, I forgot to mention that.
24 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
25 Donald Dietz: And then when he went down, he just kept goin' and that's when
26 Jason came over and pushed him off and then his gun fell out during
27 that.
157 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: You saw it hit the ground or?
2 Donald Dietz: Um, I didn't, I didn't see it hit the ground. I knew that it wasn't there,
3 he pushed him and then it was there.
4 Brian Davidson: On the ground?
5 Donald Dietz: Yeah.
6 Brian Davidson: All right. And was Jason up? Was Jason up or, or down at that point?
7 Donald Dietz: He, uh –
8 Brian Davidson: Do you recall if Jason fell down ****?
9 Donald Dietz: I remember he, he pushed him off and kinda fell forward a bit. Uh,
10 I'm, n, I'm, honestly, I, I saw the gun and I saw everyone around and
11 so I was tryin' to tell people to get back and give the police room
12 'cause everyone was trying to film it.
13 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
14 Donald Dietz: Uh, and, you know, as soon as I saw the gun out, I knew that it was
15 recipe for somethin' bad to happen and with everybody there not
16 givin' the police room, that's a recipe for it to get worse. And so I, I
17 was yellin' at people to get back. Uh, and so I, I wasn't really focused
18 on, on whe-, whether he was up or down, I guess. Uh, so I, I, I
19 couldn't think, can't really testify to that I don’t think.
20 Brian Davidson: Okay. So what happened next?
21 Donald Dietz: Um, well, I heard the police yell, uh, to, for everyone to get down
22 and not to touch it and d, don't, they said don't touch it so I would
23 assume that it was the gun they were talkin' about. And, uh, so I turn
24 around and, uh, well, I, I, um, I never really turned my back, I, I kind
25 of just looked back over when I was yellin' at people and that's when,
26 uh, as, as I kinda turned my head around, uh, I heard the police yell a
27 couple more times for him not to reach, reach for the gun. And, uh,
158 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 and then I think I heard one of 'em yell drop it a couple a times. And
2 then that's when I heard the shots go off –
3 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
4 Donald Dietz: – and saw the shots go off, yeah.
5 Brian Davidson: So were you observing Mr. Washington during all this or is your
6 attention elsewhere?
7 Donald Dietz: I was mostly trying to get the crowd back and I looked over at the
8 police when they shot, I didn't, I didn't, my eyes weren't directly
9 fixated on it –
10 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
11 Donald Dietz: – no but, uh, I was, you know, there more than, I was probably closer
12 than you and I are to the police when they shot. And, uh, yeah, all I
13 know is that I, I, I, I heard, I heard a lotta warnings, a few, like two,
14 two or three maybe and, uh, that, they, you know, they shot him. Uh,
15 I saw him kinda move a lot, uh, like a, I don't know, if I'm lookin' at
16 you –
17 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
18 Donald Dietz: – was probably right over here is where he was since it was like a
19 little bit of peripheral and he, uh, was, you know, reachin', uh, uh,, I
20 assume, I don't know, I guess I didn't see, I probably shouldn't said it
21 but, uh, he, he, I saw him move a lot and then that's when they, uh,
22 shot him.
23 Brian Davidson: Okay. Um, so you weren't, your focus wasn't –
24 Donald Dietz: I wasn't directly –
25 Brian Davidson: – eyball wise on –
26 Donald Dietz: I wasn't directly –
27 Brian Davidson: – Mr. Washington.
159 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Donald Dietz: – fixated on, on Jason, no.
2 Brian Davidson: Okay. So, you weren't necessarily observing his movements or
3 whether he has something in his hand at that point?
4 Donald Dietz: No.
5 Brian Davidson: Did you s-, I mean, you weren't looking to see if he had a gun in his
6 hand at that point?
7 Donald Dietz: All I knew was that it was on the ground. I was telling people to get
8 back and then I saw the police shoot him.
9 Brian Davidson: Okay. Got it. Um, and what happened in the immediate aftermath of
10 the shots being fired? Do you recall how many shots you think were
11 fired?
12 Donald Dietz: Oooh, um, a few.
13 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
14 Donald Dietz: Uh, I, I, I would say probably four. I don't know, we're right in
15 between a lotta buildings so it coulda been echos too but if I had to, I
16 would probably like four or five.
17 Brian Davidson: So this point, you're running away?
18 Donald Dietz: Uh, I was, well, I was telling people, everybody else too –
19 Brian Davidson: Uh huh.
20 Donald Dietz: – um, my responsibility being workin' at the bar was, uh, just to, to
21 make sure that nobody else got in there and got involved and got
22 hurt. And, and so I, you know, there was people coming out of the
23 bar to see what happened 'cause they heard shots and so I was just
24 tellin' everybody, was yellin' at everybody to get back inside and, uh,
25 to, to clear the area and I was just tryin' to get everybody out of
26 there. Uh, so the immediate aftermath, I didn't see what was going
27 on over there. I can, I can really only talk about what happened near
160 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 the bar and in the bar after that 'cause I was fixated on gettin'
2 everybody in and locking the door and making sure it was safe
3 before I let anybody out.
4 Brian Davidson: Was it apparent to you when the police, I know you mentioned that
5 when the cruiser arrived, you immediately could tell it was a police
6 cruiser, correct?
7 Donald Dietz: Yes.
8 Brian Davidson: Uh, when the officers exited the, the vehicle, was it easy for you to
9 perceive them as being police officers?
10 Donald Dietz: Yes.
11 Brian Davidson: And, and why is that?
12 Donald Dietz: Well, they were fully uniformed and, uh, they, you know, uh, they
13 were yelling and, and I heard, there's a lot of yellin' and, and audio
14 **** goin' on but I, but I heard police get yelled a few times. I'm not
15 sure it was by them but, uh, but I mean, I'm, I'm, you know, the, the,
16 I mean, whether it was them that identified themselves as police or,
17 or not. Everyone in the area from what I could tell knew it was the
18 police.
19 Brian Davidson: Okay. And, um, do you have a perception, uh, maybe you’re
20 uniquely qualified for this, about people's levels of intoxication who
21 were involved in this melee?
22 Donald Dietz: Um, maybe, yeah, there was, there was, I know Jason's friend was,
23 uh, the one that, uh, called out the racial slurs, he was pretty
24 intoxicated. Uh, I know that there, the, the other group of regulars
25 was at the bar for a while but, I mean, they're not, they weren't nearly
26 as drunk as I've seen them before. They, they seemed like they were
27 there for a while but I didn't observe them drinking a lot and, uh,
161 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 they didn't seem to be, I mean, maybe Moe was pretty intoxicated
2 but the rest were, you know, how I see 'em all the time. They didn't
3 seem too drunk. Uh, but I mean, I'm, I’m, I wouldn't sayI’m uniquely
4 qualified
5 Brian Davidson: Okay. Well, you just work in a –
6 Donald Dietz: Yeah.
7 Brian Davidson: –in a bar, right? ****
8 Donald Dietz: Yeah. Uh, yeah, I know, I know that, uh, Jason's f, friend, uh, the
9 bald one and then the, the other, his other friend seemed, uh, pretty
10 drunk, but you know, I don't ****.
11 Brian Davidson: Okay. Fair enough. Uh, I think those are all the questions I have for
12 Mr. Dietz. Does anybody else have any additional questions for
13 Mr. Dietz?
14 Other Speaker: I do. So when you talk about Moe and his friends were taunting
15 them, and like trying to bait him and followed him and all that –
16 Donald Dietz: Mm hmm.
17 Other Speaker: – kinda stuff, following him, did you ever see him take out the gun
18 or touch the gun or say anything else to them?
19 Donald Dietz: Not at that point, no. Uh, I know that his hands were mostly
20 outstretched with his, uh, the, his bald friend behind him tryin' to just
21 get him back. Uh, he, he wasn't really, uh, engaging him. It ju, he
22 just seemed like he was tryin' to get his friend outta there and kinda
23 break things up a bit. Uh, I didn't, I didn't really see a, uh, or hear
24 him taunt back or go for his gun.
25 Other Speaker: Okay. And then you said you, you personally know Moe and some
26 of the people pretty well.
162 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Donald Dietz: Uh, not, not well. I, I know them as much as like they hang out at my
2 bar every, uh, couple a days but –
3 Other Speaker: Is this the kind of, do they get in these kind of altercations –
4 Donald Dietz: Most –
5 Other Speaker: – ****?
6 Donald Dietz: – most of the time when they get, uh, I mean, I've seen them get
7 heated before. Uh, so th, and I mean, I'm no stranger to seein' them
8 amped up but most of the time, as I said, I kinda developed enough
9 of a rapport with them as someone that works there that, uh, when,
10 you know, a coup, a couple of their friends that weren't there, uh,
11 I'm, they, they, they'll like listen to me and get the whole group back
12 down and like talk to their own friends but, but those guys weren't
13 there so, so, I, I mean, I've, I've seen them amped up before but I, I
14 wouldn't say it was like super typical to see 'em that mad.
15 Other Speaker: Thank you.
16 Other Speaker: You said you saw the firearm fall out and hit the ground and you saw
17 it laying there and nobody was touching it, it was just lying on the
18 ground?
19 Donald Dietz: I saw it. I didn't see it fall out of his pocket. I knew that it was in his
20 pocket and then I saw it on the ground.
21 Other Speaker: By itself.
22 Donald Dietz: After he pushed him.
23 Other Speaker: By itself when –
24 Donald Dietz: Um, ne, yeah, near everybody. And, uh, then you know once I saw
25 the gun get down that's when I was more preoccupied with getting
26 everybody back and giving the police space to, to work and do what
27 they needed to do. So I wasn't starin' at the gun after that, I was
163 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 mostly tryin' to get the crowds back 'cause there was a buncha kids
2 like filmin' and stuff. Uh, but yeah, I mean, yeah, I, I can't say that I
3 saw that, uh, anyone was, you know, near it. Uh, th, they didn't go
4 closer to it than when I saw it ****.
5 Other Speaker: All right.
6 Other Speaker: All right.
7 Brian Davidson: Additional questions for Mr. Dietz? No, okay? Um, Mr. Dietz,
8 you're all done. You can step out and then next we'll have Tyler
9 Koenig.
10 Donald Dietz: Thank you.
11 Other Speaker: Thank you.
12 Brian Davidson: Did you guys all come together, or are you-
13 Other Speaker: ****.
14 Brian Davidson: Okay.
15 Other Speaker: ****.
16 Brian Davidson: You’re free to go. ****. Uh, Mr. Koenig.
17 Other Speaker: ****
18 Brian Davidson: You go ahead and, uh, stand next to that black chair there and raise
19 your right hand and they will swear you in.
20 Other Speaker: Do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you are about to
21 give in the matter pending before this Grand Jury shall be the truth,
22 the whole truth and nothing but the truth?
23 Tyler Koenig: Okay.
24 Brian Davidson: Go ahead and have a seat. And if you could, uh, state and spell your
25 full name for us please.
26 Tyler Koenig: It's Tyler, T-Y-L-E-R, Koenig, K-O-E-N-I-G.
27 Brian Davidson: Mr. Koenig, uh, how old are you?
164 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Tyler Koenig: I am 28.
2 Brian Davidson: And how are you employed?
3 Tyler Koenig: I am, I am employed as a server/bartender at the Cheerful Tortoise.
4 Brian Davidson: And how long have you been employed there?
5 Tyler Koenig: For about 4 months now.
6 Brian Davidson: All right. Uh, I think you know why we're here, we're here to talk
7 about this, um, shooting that occurred back on June 29th of this year.
8 Were you working at the Cheerful Tortoise that evening?
9 Tyler Koenig: Yes, I was.
10 Brian Davidson: And, uh, as a server or bartender, both?
11 Tyler Koenig: As a server that night.
12 Brian Davidson: Um, so what's your first, um, recollection about the, uh, the parties
13 who were involved in this altercation that resulted in this shooting?
14 Tyler Koenig: So my first contact with everybody was as everybody was leaving
15 the bar, it was the two gentlemen, um, both of 'em bald, were leaving
16 the bar and there was an altercation with a group of black men as
17 they were leaving the bar because one of the white dudes said a
18 racial slur towards one of the black guys.
19 Brian Davidson: Did you hear that yourself?
20 Tyler Koenig: I did not hear the racial slur.
21 Brian Davidson: So what, where did you learn or who told you that, that occurred?
22 Tyler Koenig: Well, they were sittin' there yellin' that in front of the building. And I
23 was out in front while they were yelling this in front of the doors of
24 the building –
25 Brian Davidson: So who was –
26 Tyler Koenig: – that these –
27 Brian Davidson: – who was yelling what?
165 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Tyler Koenig: The black guys were yellin' that those be fightin' words, those racial
2 slurs be fightin' words and yellin' at specifically the shorter, there
3 was a shorter and a taller white guy and they were specifically
4 yelling at the shorter guy as the taller guy was just tryin' to escort his
5 friend out of the, out of the bar, away from the bar, sorry, across the
6 street away from the bar.
7 Brian Davidson: All right. So, but that was, is that later in the events or was that?
8 Tyler Koenig: This was just the begi, this was the beginning of them leaving the
9 bar. This is the beginning of alt, altercations.
10 Brian Davidson: All right. So did you first perceived there was a problem inside the
11 bar?
12 Tyler Koenig: Yeah, as I was walking out with them. They were starting to fight as
13 I was walking out of the front door and that was literally when they
14 started arguing and whatnot.
15 Brian Davidson: So that was your first awareness that there was something going on?
16 Tyler Koenig: Yeah.
17 Brian Davidson: And those things just you said, were being said, uh, by the group of
18 African American men –
19 Tyler Koenig: Yes.
20 Brian Davidson: – towards the, what you pursue, perceived as the bald white guys?
21 Tyler Koenig: Yeah.
22 Brian Davidson: All right. Now are, this group of African American, um, individuals,
23 uh, are they people you're familiar with from bein' in the bar
24 previously?
25 Tyler Koenig: Well, yeah, they, they were regulars for a while up until the
26 altercation happened and since then they were all 86'd from the bar.
166 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. All right. So, um, walk, I, uh, kind of interrupted your
2 flow there but why don't just kinda walk us through what you
3 observed, um, as this progressed.
4 Tyler Koenig: So as they were yelling at, at the guys that were crossing the street, I
5 started yelling at them to just leave them alone, that, just to leave it
6 be. I didn't ask what had got said or anything like that, I just told
7 them, just to leave it be, just to drop it, everybody's leaving, just
8 separate your ways. And they were very insistent on crossing the
9 street and fightin' with these guys more. Well, as they proceeded to
10 cross the street, the two guys then came running back across the
11 street towards me and then I ended up standing in between the two
12 guys and the group of black guys and telling the two guys to get
13 inside the bar, just go inside the bar, just let me deal with this, get
14 inside the bar, just to at least separate them to keep any fight from
15 happening. After getting those guys inside, then the African
16 American guys then proceed to escort their way inside the bar and
17 that's when me and one of the bartenders and proceeding to separate
18 them just, separate side of the bars.
19 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
20 Tyler Koenig: And we pushed all the African American guys to where our pool
21 table is which if you come in our door, it's just to the right, and I
22 took the two guys to the left inside the door which, so I could take
23 them out the side door. And I took 'em out the side door and I said
24 you guys just need to leave, like not worth havin' fights with these
25 guys. There's a lot of 'em, it's just not worth it.
26 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
27 Tyler Koenig: Just –
167 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: And as far as the size of the groups, um, how many people were in
2 the, in the group you refer to as the regular group, how many, what
3 would be the number, you think?
4 Tyler Koenig: I don't know. My, my brain will probably count it as more than there
5 really were but I would say at least six.
6 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. And in the other group, how many people did you
7 perceive being associated with that group?
8 Tyler Koenig: Just the two white guys.
9 Brian Davidson: Just the two?
10 Tyler Koenig: Yeah. Even from the beginning of the night when I saw them in the
11 back drinking by themselves, it was just the two of them.
12 Brian Davidson: Okay. So you're trying to usher them two other –
13 Tyler Koenig: What –
14 Brian Davidson: – guys out the door –
15 Tyler Koenig: Outside the building –
16 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
17 Tyler Koenig: – out of the left-hand side of the building just so they can get out the
18 side so the African American guys wouldn't see them getting
19 escorted out.
20 Brian Davidson: And did you have a sense of whether anybody in this, um, dynamic
21 was intoxicated or not?
22 Tyler Koenig: Nn, no, t, uh, I mean, yeah, everybody's intoxicated, everybody's
23 there for drinking. I mean, we're a bar, everybody's there to drink.
24 Brian Davidson: Okay.
25 Tyler Koenig: I mean, to the point of intoxication, that's, it's a really interesting
26 point to try to point out because I mean, going through alcohol
27 awareness training in many different states as I have, I mean, yeah,
168 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 there's telltale signs to look out for when you finally cut somebody
2 off, which are the reasons why we cut somebody off and which is
3 why we stop serving somebody.
4 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
5 Tyler Koenig: But I mean, when somebody comes to a bar, especially on a night
6 that there's a special price on liquor, what are people coming out for
7 but they're coming out to drink and get drunk. So yeah, ev,
8 everybody was intoxicated to a point. It's hard to say that nobody
9 was intoxicated.
10 Brian Davidson: All right. Fair enough. So you ushered the two individuals out the
11 door and, uh, what happened next?
12 Tyler Koenig: So I ushered them out of the door. I told them just to leave, just get
13 out of the area, just don't come and confront these guys, just leave it
14 be, just separate your paths and just leave, go home.
15 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
16 Tyler Koenig: Just best to do. I mean, I would hope somebody would do the same
17 thing for me if I had a group of six, seven guys coming after me
18 trying to attack me. So after I escorted them out the side, I ended up
19 walking out towards the front of the bar, and ended up walking out
20 in the front of the building just to make sure nobody was gonna
21 come run out towards them. And then that's when one of the black
22 guys and, I wanna say his name's YT. He's the only one that I really
23 know of from name.
24 Brian Davidson: YT?
25 Tyler Koenig: Yeah. He came running out the front in front of our windows in front
26 of our building and I just yelled at him, I was like nobody's out here,
27 like get back inside the bar and nobody's out here. And he's like, did
169 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 they come out here? And I was like, no, nobody came out here,
2 they're still inside the bar, I think they're in the bathroom, like, just
3 go back inside the bar, leave it alone, just separate it.
4 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
5 Tyler Koenig: And so that is when I went into the bar and that was the end of my
6 situation with anybody of the party.
7 Brian Davidson: So, uh, were you aware of the events that occurred outside at some
8 point?
9 Tyler Koenig: So as everything that occurred outside, I was about to go and do my
10 rounds outside to make sure everything was goin' good outside
11 because our door guy, he's kinda stuck at the door to check
12 everybody's I.D.s as they come in.
13 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
14 Tyler Koenig: So I was just gonna go out front and make sure that everything was
15 good in front, on the side. And as I was walking out the door, that's
16 when everybody started coming running and yelling that shots had
17 been fired.
18 Brian Davidson: Mm. All right. You didn't observe any of that yourself though?
19 Tyler Koenig: No.
20 Brian Davidson: All right.
21 Tyler Koenig: I was the only one involved with them from the beginning.
22 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. Uh, do you know, uh, do you, wereyou aware that at
23 some point, um, some other employee at the Cheerful Tortoise called
24 911 relating to reports that somebody outside had a gun?
25 Tyler Koenig: Oh, my gosh, I'm gonna say that many people from outside probably
26 called 911, I mean it was kind of a nightmare how everybody even
27 handled the situation or reacted to it, I mean –
170 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
2 Tyler Koenig: – yeah, it was completely scary and something that shouldn't've
3 happened. But in the same instance, you had a group of men chasing
4 after these two other individuals wanting to fight them and making
5 them fear for their life. And people ended up coming around making
6 jokes out of what had happened inside the bar.
7 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
8 Tyler Koenig: And we still get people to this day that come in there and joke about
9 what had happened. But I wouldn't doubt that half of those people
10 that still joke about it to this day are still people that probably called
11 as soon as everything had happened.
12 Brian Davidson: Okay.
13 Tyler Koenig: 'Cause a lot of people that were there that day were regulars.
14 Brian Davidson: So, um, just to recap, you, your interaction and, uh, knowledge is
15 based on from what happened earlier and not, you didn't observe any
16 of the shooting itself.
17 Tyler Koenig: Mm mm.
18 Brian Davidson: Okay. All right, well, I think those are all the questions I have for
19 Mr. Koenig. Does anybody else have any questions for Mr. Koenig?
20 Other Speaker: Um, at any point during any of this altercation, was a weapon ever
21 mentioned or seen?
22 Tyler Koenig: No.
23 Other Speaker: No. Okay. Thank you.
24 Brian Davidson: Anybody else? No? All right. Um, and Mr. Koenig, you are finished.
25 You can step out and then we'll next call Mr. Clyde Barrett, Barnett,
26 excuse me. Thank you Mr. Koenig, you’re free to leave.
27 Other Speaker: ****
171 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: You'll stand next to the, uh, black chair and raise your right hand.
2 Other Speaker: Do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you are about to
3 give in the matter pending before this Grand Jury shall be the truth,
4 the whole truth and nothing but the truth?
5 Clyde Barnett: I do.
6 Brian Davidson: Go ahead and have a seat. Uh, if you could state and spell your full
7 name for us.
8 Clyde Barnett: Uh, Clyde James Barnett, C-L-Y-D-E J-A-M-E-S B-A-R-N-E-T-T.
9 Brian Davidson: Thank for coming, Mr. Barnett. Um, tell us how old you are.
10 Clyde Barnett: Thirty four.
11 Brian Davidson: And how are your employed?
12 Clyde Barnett: Uh, I am the kitchen manager at the Cheerful Tortoise.
13 Brian Davidson: And how long you have been employed there?
14 Clyde Barnett: Since January.
15 Brian Davidson: All right. Um, what are your responsibilities as the kitchen manager?
16 Clyde Barnett: Making schedules, uh, ordering food, making sure everyone shows
17 up, goin' in if need be.
18 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. Were you, uh, on duty, guess it woulda been the evening
19 of the 28th of June into the morning of the 29th of June of this year?
20 Clyde Barnett: Thursday, yes.
21 Brian Davidson: All right. Uh, my understanding was a drink promotion was going on
22 in the bar that evening?
23 Clyde Barnett: Yeah, we have, well its dollar beers and wing night so we do a
24 special wing too, uh, and special amount of wings for a special price.
25 Brian Davidson: All right. Well, we, we, if you wouldn't mind walking us through,
26 kind of, what your recollection in, uh, of this, of this, this uh,
27 disturbance developed in the Cheerful Tortoise.
172 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Clyde Barnett: Um, I was in the kitchen when it first went down, um, and usually, I
2 have a pretty good view of the front door where Donald is so I notice
3 when he goes outside. Usually, he doesn't go outside unless there's
4 some kind of an altercation. So I notice that he goes outside. So I go
5 to the bartenders and ask what's goin' on. They say there's an
6 altercation out front. So I go out front. By the time I get out there,
7 uh, there's a group of four to six young kids in an argument with two
8 older gentlemen across the street on the south side of College across
9 the street from our bar.
10 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
11 Clyde Barnett: Um, I see them kind of walk down the street, they're kind of in front
12 of the store, on the side of the store.
13 Brian Davidson: Which store are we talking about?
14 Clyde Barnett: It's called Mac's Convenience Store, M-A-C, Mac's, um, on the south
15 side, um, go back into the bar, tell the bartenders hey, it's, you know,
16 it looks pretty big, you know, there's four to eight people involved,
17 let's call the police.
18 Brian Davidson: So before we get there, um, four kids staying outside, what was the,
19 could you tell what the nature of the –
20 Clyde Barnett: Most of it was just there was the, just these, the group of four or five
21 kids, uh, talking to the other guys, just kinda yellin' back and forth,
22 you know, and nothin' nothin' real big. Um, I eventually caught word
23 that apparently one of the older gentlemen had called one of the
24 younger kids a racial slur –
25 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
26 Clyde Barnett: – and that's what pretty much started the whole altercation.
27 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
173 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Clyde Barnett: Uh, but I mean, it was, that was nothin' I heard right at that moment,
2 it was later on in the night.
3 Brian Davidson: And the first time you went out and observed this, there was no
4 mention of a gun or you didn’t see a gun?
5 Clyde Barnett: No, not the first time, no, it was just the group of four or five guys,
6 one guy in the back had his phone up so you could see the bright
7 light and he was recording everything and the, the other guy was
8 pulling his friend back like obviously not wanting to get into
9 altercation with these younger guys.
10 Brian Davidson: All right.
11 Clyde Barnett: Um, and that's all I saw 'cause I was out there for maybe 20 seconds
12 and then went back into the bar to converse with the bartenders
13 again.
14 Brian Davidson: So, um, so you went back in the bar, in the bar and w, what action
15 did you take when you were inside?
16 Clyde Barnett: I told the bartender to call the police 'cause you know, it was ****
17 pretty big, pretty big argument out there and it looks like it's getting
18 bigger. There are more and more people coming and gathering.
19 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
20 Clyde Barnett: So I didn't know exactly who was with who, um, so I was just like
21 call the police, it's a police matter for sure.
22 Brian Davidson: And who did you tell specifically .to call the police?
23 Clyde Barnett: Uh, her name's Michelle. She's a bartender.
24 Brian Davidson: And, but you didn't communicate to her there was a, potentiallya gun
25 involved at that point?
26 Clyde Barnett: Didn't know there was at that time.
27 Brian Davidson: Okay.
174 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Clyde Barnett: Yeah.
2 Brian Davidson: All right. So what happened next?
3 Clyde Barnett: Uh, I go back outside and that's when they have moved past the store
4 into kind of like a driveway that the store has on the back, uh, end of
5 their store. And that's when I first heard that one of the kids in the
6 group was saying shoot me, shoot me, I don't care, I don't care if you
7 got a gun, shoot me. And that's when I first realized that maybe
8 someone did have a gun, you know, like there's a, probably a gun,
9 uh, on one of the people. Never, uh, never saw a gun. At that point,
10 never heard a gun. Um, I heard later in the night that there was
11 apparently, he had shot warning shots but I never saw or heard those
12 warning shots.
13 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
14 Clyde Barnett: Um, I assume I was the bar at that time. So and it's, I mean, it was
15 just, I heard that someone had a gun but I never saw or heard one
16 until the incident later, a few minutes later.
17 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
18 Clyde Barnett: Um, so at that point, Donald and I were across the street trying to
19 break up the fight but I never saw, no one was flashin' anything, no
20 one had anything in their hands so I just assumed maybe someone
21 had said they have one in their car or I can get one, you know, yada,
22 yada, just talkin' smack, you know, so, I was, I really was not
23 worried or concerned at that point.
24 Brian Davidson: Okay. What happened next?
25 Clyde Barnett: Um, it escalated to where they moved from the side of Mak's to the
26 driveway over to right behind Chipotle which is on the same street at
27 Mak's. Um, and that's when I came back across the street 'cause I
175 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 was there with Donald, went across the street to get one of my
2 servers back inside 'cause she was on the corner. I was like you don't
3 need to be out here, get back to your tables, make sure everything's
4 fine inside. So I'm still outside the point. Their big group is moving
5 down the street, um, and then that's when I see the Portland
6 University Police pull up. Um, two officers get out and right there,
7 they were just kind of in a scuffle, nothin's really goin' on but as
8 soon as the police are maybe 2 or 3 feet away from the whole group,
9 me and Donald and everyone included, I saw someone grab
10 someone's cell phone and smash it on the ground. And then –
11 Brian Davidson: Sorry. Before you continue, um, what were the, uh, PSU officers
12 driving?
13 Clyde Barnett: It was a white, the white cop car with the green lettering ****.
14 Brian Davidson: Was it apparent to you immediately that it was a police car?
15 Clyde Barnett: Uh, I, yeah, to me it was.
16 Brian Davidson: Hmm.
17 Clyde Barnett: Yeah, for sure.
18 Brian Davidson: And, uh, you said the, did you say the police, you observed the
19 police exit the vehicle?
20 Clyde Barnett: Mm hmm.
21 Brian Davidson: And was it apparent to you that they were police officers?
22 Clyde Barnett: Yes.
23 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
24 Clyde Barnett: For sure.
25 Brian Davidson: All right. Uh, I think you, I cut you off, but, I think you were about
26 to tell me about the cell phone.
27 Clyde Barnett: Mm hmm.
176 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: Go ahead, please.
2 Clyde Barnett: Yeah, I saw one guy grab another guy's cell phone. Wasn't sure
3 whose cell phone it was, if it was the bigger group or the two older
4 guys, um, but someone smashed a cell phone and then that's when
5 they started to throw fists and, uh, actually, you know, engage each
6 other.
7 Brian Davidson: What distance are you from the, the fight at this point?
8 Clyde Barnett: At that, maybe 10 feet, yeah I’m kinda walking back across the street
9 as Donald's with the group. Um, they're kind of in this little, little
10 area where there's like a bike rack and a door to go up the stairs to
11 the college and there just in this little, little area. I see the sma, uh,
12 cell phone get smashed. Um, by then the cops are pretty much, you
13 know, they're kind of on the outskirt but in the middle of it a little
14 bit. Um, they didn't grab anyone or do anything like that, they were
15 just kind of seeing what's goin' on and who's gonna, you know,
16 who's doing what. Um, 'cause there was a lotta –
17 Brian Davidson: Now are you observing this as you're walking away or are you, how
18 are you able to walk away and observe–
19 Clyde Barnett: Me and the police pretty much walk up to the group at the same
20 time. As I'm walking across the street, I see the police car pull up,
21 the two officers get out, walk towards the group and then I'm at the
22 group just about that same time.
23 Brian Davidson: Well, you were, I thought you were at some point walking away
24 from the group with one of the bartenders.
25 Clyde Barnett: No, she was across the street so the, the first time I go out I see the
26 group across the street. I go back in, tell the bartenders to call the
177 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 police. The second time I come out, I am on the corner with my g,
2 my, uh, server, tell her to go in and that's when I start walking back –
3 Brian Davidson: Got it, okay
4 Clyde Barnett: – across the street.
5 Brian Davidson: Now I understand.
6 Clyde Barnett: And that's when the group is like in that 1 minute has moved all the
7 way, like a half a block down.
8 Brian Davidson: All right.
9 Clyde Barnett: So they're in that little corridor. Uh, police show up. So I see the cell
10 phone, police are there, um, they're kind of, one punch was thrown,
11 another punch was thrown, you know, me, Donald are kind of in the
12 mix, the police are in the mix. Um, the reason I for, got right into the
13 middle of it, middle of it was I saw one guy get kicked in the face
14 and he got knocked out and it was on his back.
15 Brian Davidson: Did you see who did the kicking?
16 Clyde Barnett: Uh, I did see who did the kicking. I do not know his name but I
17 know, uh, he was part of the main group of kids that were in the
18 altercation.
19 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
20 Clyde Barnett: Um, as I see him get kicked, he falls on his back. He is knocked out.
21 I see another kid get on his knees above him and go to hit him as he's
22 knocked out. So I pushed that kid off of him to make sure the guy
23 who was knocked out did not get hit again. Um, at that time the
24 gentleman, Jason, uh, fell over the guy I pushed back and over his
25 buddy, fell over him and that's when I heard the, and saw the gun fall
26 out of his pocket.
178 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: So what did you see and what did you hear that made you believe
2 that there was a gun involved?
3 Clyde Barnett: Uh, the, the, someone sayin' earlier, earlier, I don't care if he's got a
4 gun, shoot me, shoot me, I don't care, I don't care. So that just put the
5 thought in my head. Okay, he's, someone's got a gun. Don't know
6 who. Um, when I saw Jason fall over, I heard the clink of a gun on
7 the concrete and I, to me it was unmistakable, you know, it's not a
8 cell phone or keys, it's a heavy metal object, which I assumed
9 instantly was a gun. Um, as I turn to, to go away from that, I did see
10 the gun on the ground. Um –
11 Brian Davidson: What did you see? Can you describe it?
12 Clyde Barnett: Nine millimeter Glock.
13 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
14 Clyde Barnett: Yeah. And it didn't even looked like it was in a holster, it looked like
15 it was just a gun itself, you know, like it fell out of a holster or out of
16 his pocket.
17 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
18 Clyde Barnett: 'Cause I never saw anything before, you know, I don't think, I don't
19 think Donald would've let him in with that if he had seen it either,
20 you know. He woulda been like leave that in your car or –
21 Brian Davidson: Yeah.
22 Clyde Barnett: – you know. If we would've known someone was carrying, we, I
23 don't know, could've been different, you know, we woulda been like
24 leave that somewhere else, you know?
25 Brian Davidson: What color was it?
26 Clyde Barnett: It was black.
27 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
179 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Clyde Barnett: From what I recall yeah –
2 Brian Davidson: All right. So, uh, what happened after you s, perceive this gun on the
3 pavement I guess?
4 Clyde Barnett: Yeah. It was on the sidewalk, right on the sidewalk. Um, soon as I
5 hear it, the cops were right there in the middle of it. As soon as
6 everyone heard it, they said he's got a gun, he's got a gun.
7 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
8 Clyde Barnett: Um, they weren't yelling it, they were kind of like, I mean, it was
9 loud to where everyone heard it but they were more like confirming
10 to each other, he's got a gun, he's got a gun. And that's when
11 everyone dispersed, it was just, the guy who was knocked out on the
12 ground, Jason, uh, who at that time when I heard, I'm walking away,
13 the cops are saying he's got a gun, he's got a gun. I glanced back and
14 I see the gun on the ground and I see Jason getting up. Um, at that
15 poin, I turned around again and kept running and that's when I heard
16 the cops say drop it, drop it and they open fire.
17 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
18 Clyde Barnett: And then I didn't look back again. I went, ran straight across the
19 street, me and Donald and into the building.
20 Brian Davidson: All right. So you didn't actually see the actuall shooting itself.
21 Clyde Barnett: No, I don't, I do not recall actually, like, seeing him fall or anything.
22 I remember looking back and seeing him getting up. Um, I can't
23 recall if he had the gun or not. I don't remember seein' the gun on the
24 ground so I don't remember seein' it in his hand per se. But when I
25 looked back, I seen that he had gotten up, grabbed his gun and
26 started to go away 'cause I remember he was, here's his buddy and he
27 fell over his buddy this way where I'm facing 'cause I pushed the guy
180 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 off his buddy who's knocked out. He falls this way, the gun is here. I
2 start to walk this way, the officers are here. When I look back, he's
3 on the other side of his buddy and I didn't see a gun so I assume that
4 he had picked it up and started to walk or run away.
5 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
6 Clyde Barnett: And that's when I heard the shots. And when I heard the shots, I
7 didn't know who was firing, if it was the officers or him or, or a third
8 party. I had no idea. All I just heard gunshots and kept, kept running.
9 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. All right. Um, you remember talking to a detective.
10 Clyde Barnett: Mm hmm.
11 Brian Davidson: About this correct. Was it that night or?
12 Clyde Barnett: It was that night, yeah.
13 Brian Davidson: You gave your account to that detective, is that right?
14 Clyde Barnett: Yes.
15 Brian Davidson: Um, when they were asking you, the detectives were asking you
16 about what you heard the police say, um, you, you said I believe to
17 detectives, uh, referring, said “I was running, I heard the officers say
18 twice he's got a gun, twice don't, don't touch the gun, drop it, drop
19 it.” Is that accurate?
20 Clyde Barnett: Yes.
21 Brian Davidson: And then, um, later you were asked what were the commands that
22 the police gave and you said, uh, “he's got a gun, he's got a gun, he's
23 got a gun and then don't, don't touch the gun, he's got a gun, he's got
24 a gun, drop it, drop it. That's what I heard.” Is that, sound about –
25 Clyde Barnett: That mighta been repeated. I heard it, it was, it's like he's got a gun,
26 he's got a gun twice and then drop it, drop it twice, is what I recall.
27 Brian Davidson: And did you remember hearing the police announce themselves?
181 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Clyde Barnett: I do not remember them announcing themselves. I mean, obviously,
2 I heard people sayin' police are here, police are here, but I never
3 actually heard anything from the officers.
4 Brian Davidson: Uh, did you have a sense at all of, about peoples’, sounds likeyou
5 had limited interaction with them but people's level of intoxication
6 who were involved in this?
7 Clyde Barnett: No, I mean, I wasn't out there at all. Um, I mean the young kids, they
8 didn't seem any, you know, extremely intoxicated. No one seemed
9 really intoxicated, I mean, it was, to me it just seemed like a big
10 argument over an altercation of, uh, someone calling someone
11 something else.
12 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. When you were, uh, again, when you were talkin' to
13 detectives, I'm just looking at the transcripts um, they had asked you
14 about someone involved in this altercation, it's a little difficult to tell
15 who and, uh, detective's question to you was “okay, and how was he
16 when he came up to the door again?” And your answer was “oh, he
17 was pretty intoxicated for sure, he was just angry, he just came
18 around the corner huffing and puffing, he was like I'm looking for
19 this guy who called me the N word and I was like, well, he's not
20 back here, you know. Um, you can't come in here 'cause this is the
21 kitchen, you know, you gotta go back around–“
22 Clyde Barnett: That, that was our back door, not our front door.
23 Brian Davidson: Okay.
24 Clyde Barnett: Um, so I hear a pounding, pounding, pounding on the back door
25 which is like an emergency exit but you can unlock it. That's where
26 we take our trash and stuff out. And I opened the door and there's
182 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 this kid there who I don't remember seein' in there the night, in,
2 before.
3 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
4 Clyde Barnett: You know, I, I recognized him from other nights but I don't r, didn't
5 remember seeing him in the bar that night, um, who was just ranting
6 and raving thought that we had let someone in the back door who
7 called him the N word. And I'm, like, no one's back here, this is the
8 kitchen, you know, there's only staff back here. If you have a
9 problem, please go around the front to where the doorman is, he can,
10 you know, help you with that, there's no one back here. And at that
11 time, I had no idea what was going on. I figured it was s, somewhere
12 else, you know, 'cause the kid was pretty intoxicated and I figured he
13 wasn't, I didn't see him in the bar, I figured he wasn't in the bar if he
14 was that intoxicated. I thought he was just some guy looking for
15 someone randomly.
16 Brian Davidson: This is before the shooting?
17 Clyde Barnett: This is before everything, yeah.
18 Brian Davidson: And how did you des- –
19 Clyde Barnett: Maybe like 10 or 15.
20 Brian Davidson: –What’s the physical description of that person.
21 Clyde Barnett: Oh, I'd say he's 5 10, uh, African American, uh, braids or dreads, I
22 guess you could call 'em, probably 4 to 6 inches long.
23 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
24 Clyde Barnett: Um, I believe he had like a red shirt on that night.
25 Brian Davidson: All right. And is that someone you later saw as part of the
26 altercation?
27 Clyde Barnett: I believe so, yeah. Uh –
183 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: Do you role he was playing in it?
2 Clyde Barnett: I don't.
3 Brian Davidson: Okay.
4 Clyde Barnett: Not at all.
5 Brian Davidson: That person you describe as being very, pretty intoxicated.
6 Clyde Barnett: I think so, yeah. That's why I was like I, I, I didn't think anything to
7 do with us until later I saw him, which I'm not, I mean, he might not
8 have been in the bar. I, just remember seein' him across the street in
9 the altercation which everyone was gathering and taking video and
10 yada, yada, so.
11 Brian Davidson: Sure. Okay. Uh, I think those are all the questions I have for
12 Mr. Barnett. Does anybody else have any questions for Mr. Barnett?
13 No, okay. Uh, well, that's all for Mr. Barnett. We'll go off the record
14 and then, uh – all right, so we're back on the record and, uh, the
15 state's next witness is Shawn Malikowski. Mr. Malikowski. Stand
16 right there and raise your right hand and They’ll swear you in.
17 Other Speaker: Do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you are about to
18 give in the matter pending before this Grand Jury shall be the truth,
19 the whole truth and nothing but the truth?
20 Shawn Malikowski: I do.
21 Brian Davidson: Go ahead and have a seat. If you wouldn't mind, and if you wouldn't
22 mind stating and spelling your full name please.
23 Shawn Malikowski: It's, uh, Shawn Malikowski, M-A-L-I-K-O-W-S-K-I.
24 Brian Davidson: And, uh, Mr. Malikowski, can you just tell us how you're employed.
25 Shawn Malikowski: Currently employed as a senior forensic scientist with the Oregon
26 State Police forensic laboratory in Clackamas.
184 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: And is there, uh, a special area of endeavor that you're, uh, assigned
2 to, uh, to –
3 Shawn Malikowski: I work in the firearm and tool mark section.
4 Brian Davidson: And what is the, uh, what is that discipline entail?
5 Shawn Malikowski: So a firearm and tool mark section for most criminal cases is pretty
6 much, involves, if it has a firearm arm or ammunition, ammunition
7 components, it comes to us. So they wanna know, could be as simply
8 as does this firearm, is it operable, does it function properly and then
9 they wanna know, um, fired bullets or fired cartridge cases that are
10 picked up at a scene or somewhere. Did this particular gun fire those
11 ammunition components? That's pre, pretty much the majority of the
12 work that we do.
13 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm, all right. Can you tell, uh, the Grand Jury a little bit about
14 your, uh, education, uh, training and job experience that, uh,
15 qualifies you, uh, do that kinda work.
16 Shawn Malikowski: Mm hmm. I spent over 4 1/2 years in the United States Army with
17 the Second Ranger Battalion, specializing in weapons and
18 explosives, uh, later attended the University of Oregon where I
19 received a Bachelor of Science degree in biochemistry and I did,
20 while I was in college, I did an internship with the Oregon State
21 Police lab in Springfield. I was later hired by them as a, uh,
22 laboratory technician and was promoted to forensic scientist, uh,
23 6 months later in 2001. Uh, once I got hired, I attended the Bureau of
24 Alcohol, Tobacco, F, and Firearms, National Firearms Examiners
25 Academy. So this aca, academy is a comprehensive 1-year class that
26 teaches you everything you need to know so when you come in at
27 the entry level when you're done with the 1-year class, you can go
185 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 back to your laboratory and immediately be, begin doing casework,
2 so we covered areas of history and development of firearms and
3 ammunition, uh, comparing individual, uh, ammunition components,
4 fired bullets and fired cartridge cases back to individual firearms,
5 serial number restoration, distance determination, uh, we had some
6 courtroom training. I had to do a research project as part of that
7 effort and after 1 year, I graduated and then did go back to my
8 laboratory and began doing casework, which I've been doing since
9 2003.
10 Brian Davidson: Uh, you are currently assigned to the lab, OSP lab, uh, here in the
11 Portland area is that right?
12 Shawn Malikowski: Yes.
13 Brian Davidson: Previous to that you were assigned to a different lab in this state is
14 that right?
15 Shawn Malikowski: Correct. Uh, it was in the Springfield lab until about August of last
16 year. The same duties. I used to do some, uh, crime scene
17 investigations as well, um, 'til probably about 3, 4 years ago. I
18 stopped doing that in Springfield and then last year I transferred up
19 here.
20 Brian Davidson: And, um, do you have a sense of how many, uh, firearms
21 examinations you've conducted since, uh, being with the lab?
22 Shawn Malikowski: I probably do 150 requests a year and that could entail 1 firearm and
23 I've probably done as many as 10, 15 in one case so, on average it's
24 probably a couple hundred guns a year that I look at.
25 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. All right. Uh, so it's my understanding that you were
26 asked by, um, the lead detective in the matter we're considering here,
27 Rico Beniga in relation to PPB Case 18-217191 to, uh, examine a
186 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 variety of firearms as well as some shell casings relating to a
2 shooting that occurred, uh, here in Portland back on June 29th. I
3 believe it's your Lab No. 18L-004949, is that correct?
4 Shawn Malikowski: That is correct.
5 Brian Davidson: All right. Uh, what is the first piece of work, um, that you were
6 asked to do in relation to this case?
7 Shawn Malikowski: Uh, initially in the first submission, I received, uh, two Glock semi-
8 automatic pistols, um, some magazines and ammunition that came
9 with those two items and 17 fired cartridge cases.
10 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
11 Shawn Malikowski: And so initially was asked to determine, if I could determine which
12 gun fired the 17 cartridge cases, if any, and if the 2 firearms that
13 were submitted were operable.
14 Brian Davidson: All right. Uh, do you wanna start, let's start with the operability.
15 Shawn Malikowski: Sure. So –
16 Brian Davidson: And if you wouldn't mind, um, we, uh, we've received the, uh, uh,
17 the serial number information as far as which gun is associated with
18 which officer so if you wouldn't mind referring to them in those
19 ways, that'd be helpful.
20 Shawn Malikowski: Okay. You bet. So the two Glock semi-automatic pistols, uh, my
21 Laboratory Exhibit 1 was ZBL368. Uh, our Laboratory Exhibit 2
22 was ZCK991. As with all the different firearms that we get, the
23 checks, the function che, tests I perform and the, the checking of the
24 evidence is pretty much the same. I perform the same test, document
25 the same information and perform the same operability test with all
26 the guns that come in so these guns were no different, so that's what
27 we did. So when I got those firearms, first thing I do is check the
187 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 packaging and every, and the evidence marking, make sure this is the
2 gun that they sent in, they intended for me to examine, which it was.
3 They both were. And then we'll document the make, model. So what
4 manufacturer made it, the caliber, the serial number, identifying,
5 those identifying features that are specific to that one individual
6 firearm. Um, I will also do some kinda, we do some safety checks to
7 make sure that the firearm is safe for me to test fire or for another
8 person, so I'll look at it to make sure that, uh, the gun appears to be
9 functioning, it doesn't look like it's damaged. We'll look down the
10 barrel to make sure the barrel, there's no obstruction in the barrels so
11 the bullet won't get stuck in there. Um, and I also document what we
12 call the general rifle and characteristics of the gun which then get
13 imparted onto fired bullets. So I do some of those documentations,
14 uh, trigger pull and determine the gun is safe, know what the overall
15 condition. At that point, I would choose the type of ammunition I
16 wanna fire and I'd load it with ammunition and we test fire it.
17 Brian Davidson: And, uh, you s, subjected both these firearms to that battery of tests?
18 Shawn Malikowski: I did.
19 Brian Davidson: And what were the results?
20 Shawn Malikowski: Uh, both of the firearms were operable.
21 Brian Davidson: And they functioned in the way that they were intended?
22 Shawn Malikowski: They did.
23 Brian Davidson: Safeties functioned appropriately?
24 Shawn Malikowski: That is correct.
25 Brian Davidson: And they both discharged, uh, rounds in the way you would expect.
26 Shawn Malikowski: They did.
188 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: All right. Uh, so tell us what other examinations you made in
2 relation to the evidence you received.
3 Shawn Malikowski: Uh, then with the, the pistol, uh, the magazines and the ammunition
4 we would just catalogue them, count them, make, you know, how
5 many we have and document the, the make and manufacturer. In this
6 case, I actually used the, three for each gun, three of the submitted
7 cartridges. Sometimes the ammunition type to do a comparison, it,
8 they're ammunition specific. If I shoot one type of ammunition and
9 switch to another type, they might not be able to be matched. So in
10 this case, because all of the officers' firearms had the same
11 ammunition type and that type matched the fired cartridge cases, I
12 figured well, I can just use their ammunition 'cause they're similar,
13 which I did. So I shot three cartridges, um, of submitted ammunition
14 in each gun, collected those, so those now are known standards. So
15 I’vebullets, I know came from a specific firearm and the fired
16 cartridge cases, I know came from that specific gun, so like I said,
17 those are known standards, just like if I was to fingerprint an
18 individual and take their fingerprint card or collect their DNA
19 standard. We collected standards from those two pistols. I then
20 looked at the, uh, 17 fired cartridge cases and we evaluate those for
21 both the manufacturer, what the primer and the cartridge case, the
22 metal is made out of, but then I look at the general marks that the
23 firearm that fired it left on that gun to see if it's similar to the guns
24 we submitted. So for our purposes, it, it would be too involved to
25 look at, under the microscope every fired bullet and every cartridge
26 case compared to a firearm they're known test fires. It takes too long
27 so we do kind of a sorting process. So I look at what we call the
189 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 general class characteristics. So its features, transferred from the gun
2 to the fired ammunition component that allows me to narrow down
3 the possibil, possible firearms that could've fired it. So in this case, I
4 evaluated the general class characteristics or tool marks that were
5 left on the fired cartridge case. So I looked at the shape of the firing
6 pin, the piece of metal from the gun that, that dented the primer,
7 igniting the priming compound, ignited the gun powder and made it
8 go, and that we call the breach face marks. So the cartridge of
9 ammunition, it's inside the gun and the back of it rests against the
10 inside of the firearm. When the firing pin goes through the slide in
11 the gun, pokes the primer, ignites the priming compound and ignites
12 the gunpowder, that cartridge case 'cause the rapidly expanding gas
13 from the gunpowder wants to push it backwards, just like from a
14 rocket when you see the, the flames and the gas coming out the back
15 of the rocket, that force of that pressure wants to push that cartridge
16 case but the breach face of the gun supports it. That support then
17 keeps the pressure going the other way towards the end of the barrel
18 which propels the bullet down range. Well, when it gets pushed
19 back, it presses back hard enough that the machining marks in the
20 gun get impressed into the cartridge case leaving those tool marks on
21 the firearm. So we're evaluating what, what those marks look like.
22 Whether it could be straight linear lines, they could be circular. So in
23 this case, I evaluated them, the Glocks, or, have a specific, uh, shape
24 and design. The firing pin is kind of oval. The firing pin aperture or
25 the hole that the firing pin goes through in the slide is actually
26 rectangular which is very unique to Glock pistols and then when that
27 cartridge case slams back against there, the breach face or the
190 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 scratches on the inside of the gun get impressed in there as well. So I
2 looked at the unknowns, the 17 fired cartridge cases, they all had an
3 oval shaped firing pin. They all had a rectangular firing pin aperture
4 mark so, and then I looked at my test fires, my known standards
5 from the two Glocks and they were similar. So it's just like if you
6 had a red Honda, you go out in the parking lot and you look at all the
7 red Hondas. So you ignore the Fords, you ignore the blue ones, you
8 get to the red ones. So now once we say these two guns are both
9 possibilities of those fired cartridge cases, now I wanna look at the
10 individual scratches. Now, all I can differentiate A from B and say
11 it's this gun and not any other gun. So I take my known standards
12 and compare them on the microscope to the unknowns and I look at
13 the individual marks under magnification to line up the individual,
14 uh, scratches and impressed marks on there both in their orientation,
15 like if you have a band of three or a band of four, how wide they are
16 and I'll do an individual comparison and say this gun fired these and
17 this gun fired these, or it didn't at all and sometimes the answer is we
18 don't know. In this case, I was able to identify, um, my Laboratory
19 Exhibit Nu, 1, which is ZBL368 fired my Laboratory Exhibit, uh, 5
20 through 11 cartridge cases. And I do know the Portland receipt
21 number of that.
22 Brian Davidson: Oh, that's fine.
23 Shawn Malikowski: It doesn't matter. The other Glock, Exhibit 2, which is ZCK991 fired
24 my Laboratory Exhibit, uh, 12 through 21 cartridge cases. So I was
25 able to identify seven of them to one of the Glocks and ten of them
26 to the other Glock pistol. So all the ones I did receive were able to be
27 identified to a specific Glock pistol.
191 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: Okay. Um, maybe, uh, for those of us, maybe who aren't as well
2 versed in, um, firearm functionality, um, can we just take a, maybe a
3 little bit of a step back. Could you just, uh, make a couple a minutes,
4 uh, explain to us, uh, how a firearm functions, uh, when you pull the
5 trigger, uh, what part for example flies down the end of the barrel
6 and what part when we say shell casing for example, um, what part
7 that would be.
8 Shawn Malikowski: 'Kay. So on these two firearms, semi-automatic pistol. So when I say
9 semi-automatic, what that means is every time I pull the trigger, it
10 will fire one cartridge of ammunition, a complete piece of
11 ammunition, the gun will cycle itself meaning it will extract the fired
12 cartridge case, eject it from the gun, come forward, pick up another,
13 a new piece of unfired ammunition from the magazine which goes in
14 the grip, load it in the chamber, cock itself and it's ready to fire again
15 when I pull the trigger. So every time I pull the trigger once, it will
16 fire one complete ammunit, piece of ammunition fires the bullet,
17 extracts the cartridge case, loads a new round and it's ready to go.
18 That's what semi-automatic means. In guns like this, the, the reason
19 we find those cartridge cases is because the magazine which goes in
20 the grip, you, you can load multiple cartridges in there and so you
21 can keep firing that gun and as long as nothing gets in the way and
22 slows that down or jams up the process, it will keep firing until it
23 runs out of ammunition. So in these firearms, their magazines were
24 marked as having, uh, capacity of 17 cartridges and so if you loaded
25 it with 17 and kept firing, it would fire 17 times until either you
26 stopped or the gun was out of ammunition. So for the ammunition,
27 we have, um, two parts that we're concerned with, actually it's four
192 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 parts total: the cartridge case is a metal case that in the base has the
2 primer, the priming compound. The cartridge case also holds then
3 the gunpowder and then the bullet which sits in the top and it's held
4 in by a, a sof, a soft crimp and that's your complete piece of
5 ammunition. When I load those cartridges, complete piece of
6 ammunition into the magazine and then load it into the gun, to load it
7 what you would pull, the slide to the rear which is held under spring
8 tension, the spring in the magazine pushes up a piece of ammunition,
9 I let the slide go, it pulls a cartridge off the top of the magazine and
10 loads it into the barrel or the chamber. And so now you have a round
11 of ammunition in the chamber and in this case, what with the Glock
12 firearm, it's partially cocked, so the firing pin is partially held back.
13 When I go to pull the trigger, I've decide I'm going to fire this gun
14 now. I put my finger in the middle of the trigger and this, this gun
15 has a bladed, a two–part trigger. So the first part, it pushes and kinda
16 collapses that trigger safety and now you're on the actual trigger and
17 you put, pull the trigger with enough force that it pulls that firing pin
18 back a little bit more to a fully cocked position and then inside is a
19 mechanism to where it kinda rests and holds it back and eventually
20 that part's gonna drop down and the firing pin which is under spring
21 tension will shoot forward, it goes to that firing pin aperture and the
22 slide we talked about, the rectangular shape goes through and is able
23 to contact the primer or the back of the cartridge. It dents that primer
24 and that ignites through h, uh, heat and pressure ignites the priming
25 compound which then goes into the cartridge case itself and then
26 ignites the gunpowder which burns very very rapidly and then,
27 because that, we talked about that cartridge case being held in the
193 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 gun, it can't go backwards so all that build up of pressure and gas has
2 to go somewhere so it goes forward and it pushes the bullet out of
3 the case mouth and down the barrel. So all guns now, mostly are
4 rifled. So that means they've got spiral flutes in the barrel which
5 spins that bullet and just like in football when you throw a good
6 spiral, it gives the, the bullets more aerodynamic, it flies straight, it
7 doesn't wobble or, or deviate and gives it the performance that you
8 would want. So the bullet engages that rifling in the barrel, spins
9 down and then leaves the gun. Now that the bullet is gone and the
10 pressures have dropped to a safe level, the extractor, another piece
11 of, uh, the firearm grabs that fired cartridge case by the rear and that
12 in the slide starts going to the rear and eventually the, the cartridge
13 case hits, there's another piece of metal called the ejector and the
14 ejector knocks it out of the gun 'cause you have a window on the side
15 of the gun called the ejection port ejects that fired cartridge case and
16 a spring pushes the slide back forward and again it picks up another
17 piece of ammunition and loads it in the chamber and it's ready to fire
18 again.
19 Brian Davidson: Um, so when you were talking about doing your comparison, uh,
20 you weren't talking about comparisons, uh, that you made between
21 the guns and the bullet that flew down the barrel. You were talking
22 about comparisons between the firearm and the shell casings that
23 were ejected out the side and left in the area.
24 Shawn Malikowski: Correct.
25 Brian Davidson: Okay.
26 Shawn Malikowski: With a firearm, if there was a shooting, we'd have a couple different
27 ways that we could identify a gun as being involved in that shooting.
194 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 The bullets which go back to the rifling in the barrel and the
2 cartridge cases which go to the interior of the gun, the breach face
3 and the firing pin and the extractor and the ejector so there's multiple
4 ways we can identify a firearm as having been at a scene, a shooting
5 scene.
6 Brian Davidson: Now, you and I were having a chat in the ante room about, um, how
7 that might generally be true but with Glocks, which is the firearms
8 the officers were using, at least in comp-, is attempting to compare
9 fired bullets back to a firearm, Glocks, that's not really easily done,
10 is that right?
11 Shawn Malikowski: Correct. But this particular model is a different style of rifling and
12 they call it polygonal rifling. So normal rif – can I draw on the
13 board?
14 Brian Davidson: Yeah, please do.
15 Shawn Malikowski: Okay. You'll have to forgive my drawings, maybe I’m not the best
16 artist but it's typically the barrel, if you look down the end of the
17 barrel in one that's rifled conventionally, it has high spots and low
18 spots that kinda look like teeth, actually. Something like, Something
19 like that. Okay, so these parts here, these actually are smaller than
20 what the hole is intended to be. And that's the part that grips the
21 bullet. So when the bullet goes down, down this tube, it's in contact
22 with those areas and that grips the but, grips the bullet, causes it to
23 spin and does its thing on a normal rifled gun. So when I look at the
24 bullet, I get the fired bullet, you could actually at the base, where the
25 rifling gripped, it looks like there's stripes on it. So high spots and
26 low spots. The low spots are from these parts on the barrel that hang
27 down and grip it and basically carve a path through there and then
195 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 the high spots in the bullet are the low spots that don't really contact
2 the bullet that much or very little. So a conventional rifled gun leaves
3 deeper tracks, the tool marks from when that barrel was rifled and
4 was manufactured are then impressed into the bullet, it leaves good
5 marks, we can do identification and I can match bullets, also and
6 cartridge cases. But with a Glock, they're different. So what they did
7 was, they actually have kinda these humps – so sorry, my drawings
8 aren't the best but the bullet just, so instead of having the full square
9 or low spot with that width carving a track through the bullet, you
10 just have the tips of these rounded areas are touching the bullet. And
11 it's just grabbing it enough to spin it to do what you want it to do but
12 very little of this rifling actually touches the bullet. So when we get
13 the bullets instead of seeing these tracks like that, you mi, you might
14 be able to see scratches but they don't, they don't reproduce from
15 shot to shot and they're not deep enough and leave enough marks for
16 us to identify back to an individual gun. And 'cause these are both
17 Glocks, not only would, just a Glock in general produce bullets that I
18 can't identify under the microscope or see identifiable marks but I
19 can't even tell them apart. I couldn't put them in a pile from this is,
20 this is Gun A and Gun B and at least sort 'em out. They don't even
21 look that different so that's why we often don't look at them or if we
22 do look at them, we get, uh, an inconclusive results. I can't say for
23 sure.
24 Brian Davidson: So if you were provided with the rounds that were fired out of these
25 two Glocks, you would not be able to match those rounds to either
26 one of these particular guns?
27 Shawn Malikowski: Most likely not.
196 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: Okay. All right. Thank you.
2 Shawn Malikowski: Mm hmm.
3 Brian Davidson: So all the shell casings you received, uh, from, uh, the detective, uh,
4 matched up to one of these two guns, and none of the shell casings
5 were unmatched or unexplained.
6 Shawn Malikowski: Correct.
7 Brian Davidson: All right.
8 Shawn Malikowski: And so also part of our process and which is also true with any of the
9 identity sciences whether it's latent prints, which would identify
10 fingerprints, or DNA which identifies DNA, or even tire tracks or
11 shoe prints, all of those that would identify the source has to be
12 compared by a second analyst as well. So I look at it, I come to my
13 conclusion, this gun fired these, this gun fired these. We have a
14 second qualified examiner that also will look at the exact evidence
15 that I looked at and they have to come to the same conclusion which
16 it also happened in this case.
17 Brian Davidson: Uh, all right. So you are actually asked to also examine a s-, another
18 firearm in relation to this case. Would you tell us about that?
19 Shawn Malikowski: Yes. Uh, later was submitted a Walther pistol, Model PPQ, Serial
20 No. FCG3508. Uh, the same caliber as the Glock pistols and that one
21 was submitted for, uh, functions check to make sure it was working,
22 uh, correctly. So I perform the same checks as I did on the Glock
23 pistols. I documented make, model, any identifying features such as
24 the serial number, um, check for safety to make sure it hadn't been
25 damaged, the barrel wasn't clogged and then I generated, um, known
26 stan, once I determined that those were, it was safe to fire and that it
27 appeared to be working correctly, I loaded it with ammunition in this
197 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 case, I think I used, uh, laboratory ammunition. So it's ammunition
2 we have at the lab and I used, test, produced, uh, known test fires,
3 known standards of this gun and because I had already compared all
4 the submitted cartridge cases from before and I was able to identify
5 them to, uh, one of the Glock pistols, I knew this, the Walther pistol
6 didn't fire them because I had already said the source was from a
7 Glock pistol so I didn't have to go back and look at those. And once
8 we produce those known standards, we have a, actually a, the IBIS
9 system, its integrative ballistic identification system. So the cartridge
10 cases, we would put them in the computer and the computer does it,
11 takes a picture of it, a known image and sorts through, um, unsolved
12 crimes from around the area or the state of Oregon and kinda
13 regional thing, there's some Washington to see if that gun had been
14 used in any other crimes so we perform that check as well.
15 Brian Davidson: And did you get results?
16 Shawn Malikowski: It didn't match anything, which was probably expected but
17 Brian Davidson: It was yeah. Um, so this, uh, this firearm, PPQ Walther, uh,
18 functioned as expected?
19 Shawn Malikowski: It did.
20 Brian Davidson: And, uh, and when you, uh, charged it with ammunition and pulled
21 the trigger, it fired rounds?
22 Shawn Malikowski: It did.
23 Brian Davidson: And it would be, I guess, lethal, uh, in the same way that any, uh,
24 appropriately functioning firearm potentially would be?
25 Shawn Malikowski: That's correct.
26 Brian Davidson: Okay. All right. I think those are all, uh, the questions I have for, uh,
27 Mr. Malikowski. Does anybody else have any questions for
198 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Mr. Malikowski? Uh, okay, I think that's it. Uh, we'll go off the
2 record. And we're back on the record and the state's next witness is
3 Derrial Peterson. Uh, go ahead and raise your right hand and they'll
4 swear you in.
5 Other Speaker: Do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to
6 give in the matter pending before this Grand Jury shall be the truth,
7 the whole truth and nothing but the, the truth?
8 Derrial Peterson: I do.
9 Brian Davidson: Okay. Go ahead and have a seat. And if you wouldn't mind stating
10 and spelling your full name for us.
11 Derrial Peterson: Uh, Derrial Peterson.
12 Brian Davidson: Derrial? I apologize.
13 Derrial Peterson: I know it's, it sounds like that, it's pronounced like it's spelled, it's D-
14 E-R-R-I-A-L, uh, Peterson, P-E-T-E-R-S-O-N.
15 Brian Davidson: Thanks for coming, Mr. Peterson. Uh, would you mind telling the
16 Grand Jury how you're employed?
17 Derrial Peterson: I work, uh, now 3 days a week 'cause I don't like the weekends, um,
18 actually since that incident, I stopped working on the weekends so,
19 um, I work Monday through Sat, Monday through Wednesday at the
20 Rialto Poolroom Bar and, uh, sometimes on Friday nights I work
21 downstairs at the Jack London Jazz Review which is another venue
22 downstairs below the Rialto.
23 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. And what do you do at the Rialto?
24 Derrial Peterson: Security. I don't like bouncer because at, at my age, I try to, I try to
25 give people a opportunity to redeem themselves after bein' inebriated
26 so I usually try to hit them with the truth, you know, can I come to
27 your place of employment and disrupt, can I come to your job and,
199 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 and kinda act like an idiot and so they usually kinda wake up. Most
2 of 'em but, um, I do security there –
3 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
4 Derrial Peterson: – most of the time.
5 Brian Davidson: How long have you worked there?
6 Derrial Peterson: Oooh, know, I think almost, this is my second year, like a year and a
7 half, almost two years.
8 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. And how long have you been doing security-type work?
9 Derrial Peterson: Oh, most my life. I, uh, I, uh, graduated from a police academy in
10 Los Angeles as a matter of fact, uh –
11 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
12 Derrial Peterson: – but I did not pursue a law enforcement career. I've, uh, done asset,
13 uh, protection loss prevention for most of my life, um, did some
14 credit fraud for Wells Fargo Bank. Um, so yeah.
15 Brian Davidson: Okay, great. Well, I think you know why we're here. We're gonna
16 talk about this incident, uh, that I think technically at your location
17 occurred on June 28th of this year. Um, uh, three, uh, individuals
18 who we've identified as, um, as Jeremy Wilkinson, Ryan Pratt and
19 Jason Washington ended up, um, is it clo, is it, what is, the Rialto or
20 is there another name for the **** –
21 Derrial Peterson: Well, there's, there's the, there's the Arthur's Diner –
22 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
23 Derrial Peterson: – uh, there's the Rialto Poolroom Bar, that's all Rialto and then on
24 the left side, right on the corner is the Jockey Club which they've
25 stopped doing the, uh, horse and dog races as of a couple weeks ago
26 so it's just the, uh, poker games, live money poker game.
27 Brian Davidson: OKay. That part of the Rialto's called the Jockey Club.
200 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Derrial Peterson: Yes.
2 Brian Davidson: Where the pokers played.
3 Derrial Peterson: Yes.
4 Brian Davidson: Ands is that like Texas Hold 'Em?
5 Derrial Peterson: Yes.
6 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm, all right. So that evening, those three individuals came in,
7 um, to that part of the Rialto, uh, and were there for several hours,
8 uh, some of them playing cards, some of them just hanging out. Um,
9 obviously, as you're aware there was, uh, kind of a dust up at the end
10 and they were removed. Um, can you just walk us through what you
11 recall about what occurred that evening?
12 Derrial Peterson: Uh, well, when I had got to work, uh, Jeremy was at the table. I
13 quickly noticed him because he was the biggest loudmouth in the
14 room. And usually, I try to, uh, along with the dealer, I try to
15 maintain, um, strict, um, just respect within the room and at the
16 table. Uh, if you come there to gamble, don't over drink, know what,
17 know what you're doing, know where you're at, otherwise I'll ask
18 you cash out. So I kinda, uh, was more patient with him because this
19 was my second time actually meeting Mr. Washington.
20 Brian Davidson: Oh, so you met Jason. Washington before.
21 Derrial Peterson: I have met him before, yes.
22 Brian Davidson: Okay. And did, in, at the club or somewhere else or?
23 Derrial Peterson: That, no, he was, it, it was at, uh, the Rialto.
24 Brian Davidson: Okay.
25 Derrial Peterson: Yeah. Um, and actually, so when we, we saw each other and so we
26 kinda embrace with the old brother handshake, you know, how you
201 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 doin' bro, what's happenin', haven’t seen you in a minute and, so he
2 was, uh, we start talking, uh, I was –
3 Brian Davidson: So prior interactions, you were friendly with Mr. Washington?
4 Derrial Peterson: Yes.
5 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
6 Derrial Peterson: Um, and, uh, we had just start talking and he was talking about his
7 wife, uh, his daughter who just graduated from college, he talked
8 about being a grandfather, how he was excited about, uh, the
9 upcoming year and how things were really looking up for him and,
10 um, uh, I was sharing my experience with my daughter who's
11 graduating this year from high school and, um, just the fact that I
12 had, uh, we had comradery 'cause we had been married. I was
13 married 17 years and he had been married for some time, I forget
14 how long he said but, um, we were talking just bro hood, you know –
15 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
16 Derrial Peterson: – and it was really good stuff. So, uh, he was, uh, he was not
17 inebriated, he never got kicked out, he was never cut off from
18 drinking. Um, but after a while, we had stopped c, talking and, um,
19 uh, there was some minor disruption at the table and so Jeremy
20 would get up from time to time to come back to the bar to take a
21 shot. And one particular time he got up, the bartender, a young lady
22 named Sarah said you're cut off. I was like, okay, so no more alcohol
23 for you. And ****, he continued to be belligerent and use her, call
24 her out of her name, so –
25 Brian Davidson: **** call her what?
26 Derrial Peterson: Called her a bitch. You're actin' like –
27 Brian Davidson: Mr. Wilkinson called the bartender a bitch?
202 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Derrial Peterson: Yes.
2 Brian Davidson: Okay.
3 Derrial Peterson: And so I just said ho, wait a minute, man, you're not gonna come in
4 here and be disrespectful to the young lady. She's bein' really cordial,
5 really nice to you and that's enough. He goes well, I'm gonna on
6 Yelp and I'm gonna, I'm gonna, uh, thrash this place on Yelp. I said
7 be my guest but you're cut off. So I went over to the table, the poker
8 table, asked the dealer, I said he's cashed out, he had already s, uh,
9 uh, started that process. Uh, Jeremy, I don't know his last name, uh,
10 went over to the table, grabbed and continued to try to drink and
11 grabbed a beer. I took it from him and it kinda spilled on his hands
12 and he says oh, that's, that's wonderful. Wiped his hands like that and
13 then continued to wipe them on my chest. And, and I, normally, I
14 would not engage in anything combative like that, but I immediately
15 punched him and knocked him his g-, to the ground.
16 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
17 Derrial Peterson: Um –
18 Brian Davidson: Did you like punch him or push him?
19 Derrial Peterson: No, I punched him.
20 Brian Davidson: You punched him. Where'd you hit him, do you remember?
21 Derrial Peterson: Just in his chin. It wasn't anything, just, he was already drunk. He
22 was dazed. And I did not know at the time he was carrying a weapon
23 but, uh, anyway, he went outside, uh, um, Jason was like man, I'm so
24 sorry. I was like man, this guy is trouble, you need to get away from
25 him, I don't know what his problem is and I made the comment that
26 just because he has a black friend doesn't mean he can say or do
27 anything to all black people or anyone, right? And so once he got
203 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 outside he stood up, raised up his shirt to let me know that he had a
2 weapon.
3 Brian Davidson: This is Jeremy we're, Wilkinson we're talkin' about?
4 Derrial Peterson: Yes. And so Jason was really pissed. Now the other guy was just a
5 loudmouth kind of a tag along, Ryan –
6 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
7 Derrial Peterson: – or whatever his name is. He, he was really a non-factor at that
8 time. Um, um, uh, anyway, uh, Jason, um, was really pissed off and
9 he says man, you're always starting trouble everywhere we go.
10 Brian Davidson: He was saying this to Mr. Wilkinson?
11 Derrial Peterson: Yes. And they were walking up, they had got to 4th and Alder and
12 they wasw was crossing the street and, um, he goes God, man, I can't
13 go anywhere with you, you just keep F-ing up. Um, so he says give
14 me, give me the damn gun and so I saw him but I, I was pretty sure I
15 saw him take the gun and put it in his pocket.
16 Brian Davidson: I'm sorry. Who took what gun?
17 Derrial Peterson: Jason took the gun, had Jeremy give the gun to –
18 Brian Davidson: Jason?
19 Derrial Peterson: No. Jeremy had, yeah, little white guy gave the gun to Jason.
20 Brian Davidson: You saw, you think you saw Mr. Wilkerson –
21 Derrial Peterson: Yeah, and I never saw, I never knew, I don't know if Jason had a, a
22 weapon, I don't know. And so, um, and I al, I often wondered about
23 that if he had, um, because working at the Rialto with that poker
24 game and both doors being wide open, um, that's a concern of mine
25 being there 'cause any, at any time people can come case the joint
26 out, there's always lots of money at the end of the night being
27 counted out so, um, but, um, I say that because after he, uh, I was
204 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 startled when he showed me that he had the weapon. And so I just,
2 on retrospect, I look back and says oh, man, this guy coulda shot me,
3 you know, as I clocked him one, you know?
4 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
5 Derrial Peterson: And so, um, that was kind of, uh, yeah, a drawback.
6 Brian Davidson: Just, you, uh, you, when you were describing Mr. Wilkinson
7 showing you the firearm and you kind of motioned it doesn't show
8 up on the record, but like leave, like lifted up his shirt?
9 Derrial Peterson: He lifted up his right side –
10 Brian Davidson: Uh huh.
11 Derrial Peterson: – 'cause it was on, the holster was on his right side and he lifted it up
12 as if, I'm packing, like –
13 Brian Davidson: And you thought he did this intentional just –
14 Derrial Peterson: Oh, he did it intentional, he, but his feelings were hurt or whatever
15 and so, um, and Jason quickly was like cover that up, man, don't do
16 that, what the hell's wrong with you, you're a, you're in, you're a fuck
17 up.
18 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
19 Derrial Peterson: You know? Um, and, um, from my assessment, he really was, um –
20 Brian Davidson: Did you say anything to Mr. Wilkinson when he did that? When he
21 showed you the firearm?
22 Derrial Peterson: Yes.
23 Brian Davidson: What did you say?
24 Derrial Peterson: I said you're not the only one that carries a weapon and you should
25 watch who you pull, who you show that to.
26 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
205 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Derrial Peterson: It may not be me, it may be someone else. You should watch
2 yourself. And that's what I said. Yeah. I was, yeah.
3 Brian Davidson: Um, so did, uh, your testified that Mr. Washington wasn't, was not a
4 problem as far as you?
5 Derrial Peterson: He was never a problem.
6 Brian Davidson: Okay. Uh, so Mr. Washington wasn't 86'd out of the bar for some
7 little dispute about politics with the bartender as far as you know?
8 Derrial Peterson: No.
9 Brian Davidson: Okay.
10 Derrial Peterson: No.
11 Brian Davidson: Okay, got it. Okay, um, –
12 Derrial Peterson: And if he was, I didn't hear him ever engaged in a conversation with,
13 uh, the bartender. I was the only one really in conversation with him.
14 Um, uh, yeah, I don't, I didn't see or hear anything about that. And
15 you gotta realize too, I'm walking around too –
16 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
17 Derrial Peterson: – a lotta of the time so if there was a conversation with the bartender,
18 it was probably when I wasn't in the area.
19 Brian Davidson: Okay. All right, well, I think those are all the questions I have for
20 Mr. Peterson. Anybody else have additional questions for
21 Mr. Peterson? No? All right. We'll go off the record.
22 Derrial Peterson: All right. Thank you. I hope –
23 Brian Davidson: Yes.
24 Derrial Peterson: – that helps.
25 Brian Davidson: It is, it’s very helpful. Thanks. We're back on the record and the state
26 is calling it's, uh, next witness, which is, uh, Officer Bradley Clark.
27 Go ahead and raise your right hand.
206 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Other Speaker: Do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to
2 give in the matter pending before this Grand Jury shall be the truth,
3 the whole truth and nothing but the truth?
4 Bradley Clark: Yes, sir, I do.
5 Other Speaker: Have a seat.
6 Brian Davidson: Go ahead and have a seat and if you wouldn't mind stating and
7 spelling your full name.
8 Bradley Clark: My, my full name is Bradley Clark, B-R-A-D-L-E-Y, uh, last name
9 Clark, C-L-A-R-K and police officer with the city of Portland
10 County of Multnomah, work in a uniform capacity.
11 Brian Davidson: How many years of law enforcement experience?
12 Bradley Clark: Thirteen years.
13 Brian Davidson: All that with Portland?
14 Bradley Clark: All with Portland, yes.
15 Brian Davidson: And, um, what's your current, um, duty assignment?
16 Bradley Clark: Uh, uniform patrol so I respond to 9, 911 calls.
17 Other Speaker: ****.
18 Bradley Clark: Sorry.
19 Brian Davidson: Uh, and, uh, what precinct and district do you, uh, work?
20 Bradley Clark: Uh, central precinct. I typically work in this, on the southeast side of
21 the river in 710s to 740 district range.
22 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. And what shift?
23 Bradley Clark: Uh, afternoon shift, it's 4 p.m. to 2 a.m. in the morning.
24 Brian Davidson: So were you on duty in uniform and displaying a badge in the early
25 hours of June 29th of this year?
26 Bradley Clark: Yes, sir, I was.
207 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: Um, did you respond to this, uh, officer involved shooting incident,
2 uh, that involves two PSU officers?
3 Bradley Clark: Yes, sir, I did.
4 Brian Davidson: Why don't you walk us through how you became aware that it had
5 occurred and what your role was.
6 Bradley Clark: Um, we were just about to log off, it was the end of the night and,
7 uh, a shot, a shots fired call came out over the radio. No one knew
8 where, what, so we all came out of the, the garage really quickly
9 trying to –
10 Brian Davidson: Which garage were you coming out of?
11 Bradley Clark: – and we got a location – uh, the 1st and Jefferson police garage. We
12 were, uh, just about to be off shift. And, uh, we got a location and,
13 and, and headed there. I had, uh, a trainee with me, Officer, uh,
14 Gallago and, uh, we got to the scene, it was in, uh, um, where was it,
15 it was at Broadway and, Park and Broadway, somwhere, Broadway
16 and College and, uh, when we got to the scene, it was, it was really
17 chaotic, there were a lot of people. Um, officers were already on
18 scene trying to push back a crowd of, of, almost like an angry mob.
19 Um, there were two PSU officers that were standing off to the side
20 and there was a man laying, uh, who'd obviously been shot, uh, on
21 the sidewalk. And I ran, uh, I heard someone initially say, uh, we
22 collected the gun, we got the gun so I knew that the gun wasn't in
23 play so I was more concerned about him now because, um, typically
24 you go into a scene like that and you don't know who shot, how
25 somebody got shot, what, if someone's still armed, but, uh, I got
26 word that he was no longer armed. Uh, I went to him. I saw him take
27 one sucking gasp of air. He ****, kinda did that. I thought he was
208 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 dead before he did that and when he did that, um, we start workin' on
2 him. Uh, medically, pulled up his shirt trying to find out where he,
3 he was hit. I saw one, uh, bullet wound in, in his, I believe it was
4 right armpit. Um, and I began doing chest compressions while the
5 trainee that I was with went and got a medical kit and, uh, I
6 performed chest compressions on him and another officer, we took
7 turns, uh, performing chest compressions until AMR got there and
8 took over for us. A chest seal was put on him. What that is, is it,
9 when, when someone has a, um, gunshot wound in, anywhere in the,
10 the chest, uh, we put like a, uh, it's almost like a rubber or plastic
11 seal around the wound so that air is not escaping and/or going in and
12 compressing his chest so he could, so he can might still be able to
13 breathe a little bit. But I never saw any other sign of life from him,
14 um, after that initial gasp and, and then, uh, I basically just
15 canvassed the area for, for evidence after that and that was my role.
16 Brian Davidson: Um, how quickly was the, uh, AMR or the paramedics that –
17 Bradley Clark: Fairly quickly. Uh, I’d say 3 to 5 minutes from when I started, um,
18 the, the, the chest compressions.
19 Brian Davidson: And they took over for you at that point?
20 Bradley Clark: Yeah, and they took over for, for me.
21 Brian Davidson: Taking a step back, can you tell us a little bit about, um, how, um,
22 PPB officers are trained, specifically how you're trained as far as
23 providing emergency medical care and kinda what equipment you're
24 given.
25 Bradley Clark: Well, we have C, we ha, we are given CPR training annually. Um,
26 we are given traumatic injury training. Uh, every once in a while I
27 think we had it 2 years ago, had a, we have a little bit year to year
209 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 and in an in-service. We have an annual in-service where we get, uh,
2 uh, little bits of training and, and over the last 5 years we've gotten a
3 lot more on the medical side of things. For traumatic injury, just
4 trying to sustain someone until AMR gets there and that's what I was
5 just trying to do but, uh, I think h, I think h, you know, he was gone
6 bef, with that last breath he, he was gone.
7 Brian Davidson: Uh, and as far as the equipment you are given?
8 Bradley Clark: I have a t, we, we use tourniquets, we use these chest seals that I
9 described, we use packing material and bandages in junctional areas
10 maybe where you can't put a tourniquet on, uh, to stop bleeding. He,
11 there wasn't excessive blood coming from the wound and you don't
12 pack, um, a, a, a wound in the chest area, only in the junctional
13 areas, uh, which is like your hips or your shoulders. Um –
14 Brian Davidson: All this, uh, medical equipment, do you carry it on your person or is
15 it back in –
16 Bradley Clark: Uh –
17 Brian Davidson: – your car?
18 Bradley Clark: – no, the only, the, it's, it's in the, in a, uh, a packaging in the car so
19 that's why Officer Gallago when he, uh, I told him to grab that as
20 soon as I saw that, him take the breath, I told him, you know, go grab
21 the, we call it an iFact kit. It's, uh, I don't even know what the
22 acronym is for but that's what it has in it. It has the chest seal, it has
23 another tourniquet, it has, um, bandages and packing material. I
24 think that's about it. I think that's all, all that's really in there.
25 Brian Davidson: Okay. All right. Those are all the questions I have for, um,
26 Officer Clark. Uh, any other questions for Officer Clark?
27 Other Speaker: I have just a quick question. So you only saw the one wound area?
210 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Bradley Clark: I only saw the one wound area, yeah.
2 Other Speaker: Okay.
3 Brian Davidson: You didn't examine his entire body for any inside in–
4 Bradley Clark: No, we pulled it, we cut, I think we cut the shirt off at one point to,
5 and examined his front but, um, I think I heard through the grapevine
6 that there were injuries on his back and I, but, uh –
7 Other Speaker: You just saw the one?
8 Bradley Clark: We just saw the one.
9 Other Speaker: Thank you.
10 Brian Davidson: Any additional questions for Officer Clark?
11 Other Speaker: Uh, there was another, well, I, I and somebody, and I think there
12 were multiple 911 calls. Were you **** or was this just the first
13 thing you had heard?
14 Bradley Clark: No, those thing, the, we were there really quickly after it happened
15 and it's, it's pretty chaotic when you, initially, you're gonna hear, uh,
16 an officer come out on the radio. That's gonna happen a lot quicker
17 than any 911 calls are gonna come in.
18 Other Speaker: Oh, I see.
19 Bradley Clark: And, uh, so those calls were coming in and it's already being dealt
20 with so typically the dispatcher won't even inform us. Unless there's
21 some, uh, information in there that would help us, like a, a suspect
22 description or there's someone else that is, you know, in, in trouble.
23 Then, then we'd get that information but if it's just this is happening
24 here, and we already know it, they won’t, they won't you know.
25 Other Speaker: Yeah. I'm done.
26 Brian Davidson: Anybody else? N'kay. Uh, that's it, we'll go off the record.
27 Officer Clark, I'll take that report back from you. All right, we're
211 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 back on the record and our last witness of the day is Officer Darrell
2 Shaw.
3 Other Speaker: Do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to
4 give in the matter pending before this Grand Jury shall be the truth,
5 the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
6 Darrell Shaw: I do.
7 Other Speaker: Take a seat.
8 Brian Davidson: Okay, go ahead and have a seat. If you wouldn't mind stating and
9 spelling your full name please.
10 Darrell Shaw: Darrell William Shaw, D-A-R-R-E-L-L and Shaw is S-H-A-W.
11 Brian Davidson: And how are you employed?
12 Darrell Shaw: Uh, I'm a Portland police officer.
13 Brian Davidson: How many years law enforcement experience do you have?
14 Darrell Shaw: Uh, 25 years and some months.
15 Brian Davidson: All with Portland?
16 Darrell Shaw: All with Portland.
17 Brian Davidson: All right. Uh, and what's your current assignment?
18 Darrell Shaw: Uh, currently assigned to Central Precinct night shift.
19 Brian Davidson: And your particulardistrict?
20 Darrell Shaw: Um, I'm a utility, so I kind of bounce around depending on what's,
21 district has a vacancy.
22 Brian Davidson: All right. Uh, were you on duty in uniform and displaying a badge
23 uh, within the early hours of June 29th of this year?
24 Darrell Shaw: Yes, I was.
25 Brian Davidson: Uh, did you respond to a, um, officer-involved shooting call that
26 occurred, uh, generally in the area of Broadway and Southwest
27 College?
212 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Darrell Shaw: Yes, I did.
2 Brian Davidson: How'd you hear about the call?
3 Darrell Shaw: Uh, it came over the air, um, I don't remember the d, direct quote but
4 shots fired or officer-involved shooting and then location and just
5 started headin' up that way.
6 Brian Davidson: All right. And what happened when you arrived?
7 Darrell Shaw: Uh, when we arrived, I saw, um –
8 Brian Davidson: Were you workin' a one-man car or?
9 Darrell Shaw: We're workin' a two-man car, I had a trainee at the time. Um, we
10 pulled up kinda going eastbound College. Um, we saw a crowd, um,
11 later identified as, uh, I think Portland State police officer, um, had
12 somebody at gunpoint, uh, who was down on the ground on his back
13 kind of arms out at his side. Uh, crowd was kinda gettin', closing in
14 on us. It was getting, uh, a little tense. Um, I could see, um, the
15 suspect or subject who is down. Uh, there's a handgun about 6 inches
16 from his right hand. Um, because of the way the crowd was closing
17 in, and we had limited resources at that time, um, I put gloves, uh,
18 picked up the weapon and dropped the magazine and made the
19 weapon safe and then put it in, in the back of my police car. Um, and
20 then continued to help, uh, set up a crime scene.
21 Brian Davidson: Uh, and did you inform somebody that you had the firearm in your
22 trunk?
23 Darrell Shaw: Uh, I know I, when detectives eventually showed, I know I, a
24 supervisor and detectives eventually and I took them right to it, the
25 detectives.
26 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. And they collected it?
27 Darrell Shaw: Yes, sir.
213 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
2 Darrell Shaw: And it was, uh, forensic I.D.
3 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. All right. Uh, and so why did you choose not to leave the
4 gun kind of in place?
5 Darrell Shaw: I was concerned because, um, there was a loud angry crowd, um,
6 both to the east and there was a number to the west. Um, like I said,
7 at that time we still had officers coming but the scene was not
8 secure. I was concerned that somebody might pick up the gun, either
9 take it or use it against us or somebody else. So I wanted to make
10 sure that that weapon was, was secure and safe.
11 Brian Davidson: Hmm. Uh, and you said, you c-, cleared it before you put in your
12 trunk?
13 Darrell Shaw: Correct.
14 Brian Davidson: What does that mean exactly?
15 Darrell Shaw: So what you do is, um, you drop the magazine, um, so there’s no
16 rounds there and then rack the slide to the rear ejecting a round that
17 would be in the chamber. Um, and that weapon did have a round in
18 the chamber.
19 Brian Davidson: So that weapon appeared to be, uh, loaded and ready to fire?
20 Darrell Shaw: Yes, sir.
21 Brian Davidson: Think those are all the questions that I have for Officer Shaw. Does
22 anybody else have any questions for Officer Shaw?
23 Other Speaker: Was it in or near a holster?
24 Darrell Shaw: It was, it was not near a holster that I saw. Um, it was just right next
25 to his hand, about 6 inches away from his hand.
26 Brian Davidson: Any other questions for Officer Shaw? No? All right. Mr. Shaw,
27 you're all done.
214 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Darrell Shaw: Thank you, sir.
2 Brian Davidson: You are free to go.
3 Darrell Shaw: All right. Have a good day, now.
4 Brian Davidson: Good night. All right, we'll go off the record.
5 Brian Davidson: All right. We are back on the record in Day 2 of, uh, DA Case Number
6 2385054-1, um, death investigation. Brian Davidson appearing on
7 behalf of the State. My last name is spelled D-A-V-I-D-S-O-N. This is,
8 uh, we are in Grand Jury 3, Case Number 35, and the State will call its
9 next witness, uh, Officer Anthony Eugenio. Okay, go ahead and raise
10 your right hand to be sworn.
11 Other Speaker: Do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you are about to
12 give in the matter pending before this Grand Jury shall be the truth,
13 the whole truth and nothing but the truth?
14 Officer Anthony Eugenio: I do.
15 Brian Davidson: Uh, could you please, uh, state and spell your full name for us.
16 Officer Anthony Eugenio: Anthony Eugenio, uh, first name A-N-T-H-O-N-Y, last name
17 Eugenio, E-U-G-E-N-I-O.
18 Brian Davidson: And, how are you employed?
19 Officer Anthony Eugenio: As a police officer with the City of Portland.
20 Brian Davidson: And, how many years in law enforcement ****?
21 Officer Anthony Eugenio: Uh, 17 years.
22 Brian Davidson: All of that with Portland?
23 Officer Anthony Eugenio: Yes.
24 Brian Davidson: And, um, can you tell the kind of, us what assignments you had, uh,
25 training you had since you've been with the Police Bureau?
26 Officer Anthony Eugenio: Uh, I, uh, started out, uh, with regular patrol as a patrol officer. So I
27 went through the basic academy, the Portland advanced academy
215 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 um, uh, you know, worked as an officer for a while and then, uh, my
2 current position is with the gang enforcement team. I went over there
3 in 2007, um, and in 2012 I started my, uh, video, uh, career by taking
4 a retrieval class from a company called Resolution Video. Since then
5 I've had various, uh, classes, um, regarding uh basically the
6 technology part of, uh, doing our job. Um, in 2017 I was certified,
7 uh, through the law enforcement video association as a video,
8 forensic video technician. I've taken the FBI Divert class, uh, which
9 basically allows you to take crime scene video and create a
10 commercial where you’re able to play that back, um, you know, and
11 when one, one or two-minute segment depicting all the important,
12 um, items, um. I, uh, I'm also Cellbrite certified which is a, uh, um,
13 a, uh, technology or machine that will actually read cell phones and
14 extract data from them. Um, and so, basically I was, uh, provided uh,
15 you know this video by Detective Broughton. He asked me to take a
16 look at it.
17 Brian Davidson: Uh, so when you say this video, you're talking about the body-worn
18 camera video –
19 Officer Anthony Eugenio: Right.
20 Brian Davidson: – uh, what was taken as part of the officer involved shooting that
21 we're considering today.
22 Officer Anthony Eugenio: Correct.
23 Brian Davidson: And, uh, officer, I'm sorry, Detective Broughton is, um, was, uh, co-
24 lead, uh, along with Detective Rico-
25 Officer Anthony Eugenio: Right.
26 Brian Davidson: Beniga in this case. Is that right?
27 Officer Anthony Eugenio: That is correct.
216 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: Okay. So, while, when you received this video, were you able to do
2 anything to, uh, and what were you able to do in relation to
3 enhancing it or creating stills to give us a better sense of what is
4 depicted in the video?
5 Officer Anthony Eugenio: Okay, so I first review the video and I found that it was very good
6 quality. It's a high definition cameras, um, good memory. They run
7 at 30 frames a second which is, uh, really good as far as being able to
8 go back. Um, then I was able to do what they call a levels adjustment
9 where I'm able to lighten up the pictures. Um, and basically what
10 that, uh, does uh, would be similar to, you know, uh, turning on the
11 lighting in a room. Your, the information's already there. We're not
12 changing anything. I’m just making it, uh, the ability for us to see it.
13 Um, and then amongst the clips I did what they call sub clips, and so
14 I was able to take the regular video and, uh, do sub clips of that and
15 then, uh, slow it down so that we can actually see what's going on.
16 The original video is 30 frames a second. I don't know if you've seen
17 that or not. Um, but the video that I did, uh, slows it down and then I
18 lightened it so you can actually see things a lot clearer and then
19 finally, um, I went through everything, my, uh, software that I use, is
20 uh called Inpudaise. It's a forensic tool. I was able to go through and
21 see each frame by frame and then I was able to capture the
22 important, um, significant, uh, photos that I thought would be
23 appropriate to find the truth in this matter.
24 Brian Davidson: Okay. Uh, you prepared a PowerPoint presentation to facilitate your,
25 uh, testimony. Is that right?
26 Officer Anthony Eugenio: That's correct.
27 Brian Davidson: Do you want to walk us through that?
217 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Officer Anthony Eugenio: Sure.
2 Brian Davidson: Maybe you can just narrate for us as you go through what we're
3 looking at.
4 Officer Anthony Eugenio: Sure. So, this is my information.
5 Brian Davidson: Would it be helpful if I turned the lights off?
6 Officer Anthony Eugenio: Uh, it’s up to them.
7 Brian Davidson: All right. Here we go.
8 Officer Anthony Eugenio: I’m gonna check one thing. So, we don't, we don't have speakers
9 here. I'm gonna turn my volume up on my laptop so that we can
10 hear. And this is a, in PowerPoint. So, this is the first, um, well it
11 was, this was the first thing I wanted to show. It's a uh sub clip of the
12 actual video uh, that’s time calibrated so that you see both the body-
13 worn cameras. You see, um, Officer Dewey's camera and you see
14 Officer McKenzie's camera but they're, um, they're calibrated to play
15 at the same time. It's played at the regular speed of the regular video.
16 Um, there, there is a lot going on so, I'll uh go ahead and play it for
17 you now.
18 Brian Davidson: So, these are time synced to each other, so they're –
19 Officer Anthony Eugenio: Right.
20 Brian Davidson: Got it.
21 Officer Anthony Eugenio: So, both cameras obviously were separate because they were on each
22 of the officers and so this tool that I use called a canvas editor will
23 actually, um, marry the two videos together and show ‘em as one
24 video so that you can play, and so that you can see what each
25 officer's sees at the time of the incident.
26 Other Speaker: Hey, police. Hey.
27 Other Speaker: ****
218 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Other Speaker: ****
2 Other Speaker: Back up, back up
3 Other Speaker: He pulled a gun on us.
4 Other Speaker: Yah
5 Other Speaker: He did.
6 Other Speaker: He pulled a gun.
7 Other Speaker: Yah
8 Other Speaker: ****
9 Other Speaker: He pulled a gun.
10 Other Speaker: ****
11 Other Speaker: Hey.
12 Other Speaker: ****
13 Other Speaker: Hey,
14 Other Speaker: ****
15 Other Speaker: Hey.
16 Other Speaker: ****
17 Other Speaker: Hey. All you guys,
18 Other Speaker: ****
19 Other Speaker: Hey, hey, hey.
20 Other Speaker: ****
21 Other Speaker: Hey, sir, sir, gotta have ya back up.
22 Other Speaker: ****
23 Other Speaker: ****
24 Other Speaker: Back up
25 Other Speaker: Get back
26 Other Speaker: He’s got a gun, he’s got a gun.
27 Other Speaker: Stop, stop, stop.
219 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Other Speaker: Drop the gun, drop the gun
2 Other Speaker: Stop!
3 Other Speaker: I will shoot you.
4 Other Speaker: Fuck.
5 Other Speaker: Oh, dude come on.
6 Other Speaker: Get up
7 Officer Anthony Eugenio: Do you have to see it again? Brian Davidson: Uh, does anybody
8 else want to see the time synced version again? Nope, doesn’t sound
9 like it.Officer Anthony Eugenio: Okay. So then, upon
10 reviewing the different, uh, body cams, I was able to do a levels
11 adjustment. Well, actually I did the sub clip um, of each body-worn
12 camera and then I did a levels adjustment meaning I, I lightened it up
13 and then I slowed it down. The original video that you just watched
14 plays at 30 frames a second which is really fast and it's hard to catch
15 detail. So, what I did was when I, when I adjusted this I'm playing it
16 at a slower speed so you can see things more definitively, uh, than on
17 the original version. And, there's no sound on this one.
18 Brian Davidson: Is, uh, in that particular clip is there something of note that you
19 observed that made you want to include that particular clip?
20 Officer Anthony Eugenio: Um, yeah. There's a, uh, black object in the gentleman's, uh, uh,
21 right, uh, shorts pocket that’s wearing gray um, and, I'll get to that a
22 little bit later.
23 Brian Davidson: Okay.
24 Officer Anthony Eugenio: After the sub, later
25 Brian Davidson: Okay.
26 Officer Anthony Eugenio: After we get through these sub clips. But, just to show them, they
27 may have, they may have, uh, observed that already. So, this is, uh,
220 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 McKenzie's body-worn camera. Again, it's uh, uh shortened in the
2 sub clip. It's lightened and it's, uh, slowed down so that we can see,
3 uh, what we’re, what we’re, uh, trying to see here. Makes it easier
4 for the viewer to see what we're trying to see.
5 Brian Davidson: Could you actually play that again for us.
6 Officer Anthony Eugenio: Yeah Wait, notice his left hand. There's, um, and object in his left
7 hand,you see it right there as he reaches out in front of him.
8 Brian Davidson: So in that slowed down clip it appears that there's both a black object
9 in his left hand simultaneously with a black object being in his right
10 hand.
11 Officer Anthony Eugenio: Yes. Correct.
12 Brian Davidson: When the right, the one in the right hand appears to be a firearm. Uh,
13 one would surmise that the black object in the left hand was the
14 holster?
15 Officer Anthony Eugenio: Correct. And, now that we've, uh, seen the video portion of this,
16 slow it down and lighten so we can see what we need to see for
17 trying to find the truth.Um, there's, uh, in this image there's clearly a
18 black object in, in the subject's right pocket. Um, with the photo
19 viewer I'm able to zoom in.
20 Brian Davidson: And, would that be a, appear to be a firearm?
21 Officer Anthony Eugenio: Yes. And again, during the struggle when the officers are arriving,
22 um, wh-, again we see this black object. And here's a close up of that
23 object.
24 Brian Davidson: In your experience as a police officer, you would conclude that that's
25 a firearm?
26 Officer Anthony Eugenio: Yes. Another, uh, photo of the black object. During the struggle and
27 then down h-, uh, this photo it shows him on the ground. In his right
221 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 hand is at the pocket of his shorts. In this one the hands come
2 together to reach out in front of him. You guys all see that okay?
3 Okay, um, and then, uh, this, uh, this number, image number 7 the
4 hands come together in uh, while he's reaching out in front him.
5 Brian Davidson: Is there, does there seem to be something in his hands in that
6 picture?
7 Officer Anthony Eugenio: Yeah, there's a black object, uh, that’s in his hand. And then finally,
8 um, this is uh, an image of the subject holding the black object in his
9 right hand and we see with the, uh, background that it's a, a black
10 object in his right hand with his arm fully extended.
11 Brian Davidson: So, um, for the benefit of the record, uh, it, it appears in this image
12 that Mr. W-, we know is Mr. Washington is facing towards, facing
13 east generally, uh, towards the police officers and some other
14 civilians, it appears from the image that, uh, his right arm is stretched
15 out straight in front of him, uh, and there's a, a black object in his
16 right hand which would appear to be consistent with the firearm. Is
17 that accurate?
18 Officer Anthony Eugenio: Yeah, that's correct.
19 Brian Davidson: So, in this image Mr. Washington seems to be pointing the firearm in
20 the direction of the police.
21 Officer Anthony Eugenio: Correct. And again, this is another, uh, the next image, uh, from the
22 video after. That we see, still see the extended arm, the black object
23 and uh still pointed, they're still full extended with the black object.
24 And, this is on the, the, um, after the incident happens, um, and
25 while they’re uh, they had called for, uh, for other officers, um. In
26 this im, in this, uh, you see the black, two black objects, and they're
27 laying, um, next to, um, who we know to be Mr. Washington. And
222 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 so, in, uh, summary, Officer Dewey and McKenzie arrive on a
2 chaotic scene where multiple people are fighting. Um, as officers,
3 uh, contactthe group of witness who repeatedly points at a male with
4 a gray T-shirt saying he pulled a gun on us. He pulled a gun. He
5 pulled a gun. And, the entire incident from the time they arrived until
6 shots were fired was 40 seconds.
7 Brian Davidson: Okay. Um, does anybody want to see anything in this PowerPoint
8 presentation again right now? Any of the video clips, any of the
9 stills? No? Okay.
10 Other Speaker: Uh, we'll get a, do we get a chance to iden, we will get a chance to
11 look at this again if we want to ****.
12 Brian Davidson: Uh, it, well, it’s easiest, since this, um, this takes some technical
13 knowhow on the part of Officer Eugenio. It would be better to do it
14 now_
15 Other Speaker: Okay.
16 Brian Davidson: Since he has the technical knowhow to walk us through it, so, um,
17 now would be the time to do that if you want to do that.
18 Other Speaker: Okay.
19 Other Speaker: ****
20 Other Speaker: Yeah, I wouldn't mind seeing it again.
21 Brian Davidson: Okay.
22 Other Speaker: ****
23 Officer Anthony Eugenio: What would you like to see again?
24 Brian Davidson: Just run the whole thing again?
25 Other Speaker: Um.
26 Brian Davidson: Or is there something specific you wanted to see?
27 Other Speaker: Just slow mo, I think that the ****–
223 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Officer Anthony Eugenio: When he gets up or when he falls, when he falls?
2 Brian Davidson: Why don't we just click through all your slides?
3 Other Speaker: ****
4 Other Speaker: ****
5 Officer Anthony Eugenio: Okay ****.
6 Brian Davidson: Let's just, let's just click through the slides and you can tell us if you,
7 uh.
8 Other Speaker: So, um, you know, I thought that, that, that he had dropped, like I
9 thought the gun was in the holster at some point. I don't know when.
10 And then he had dropped that when he fell. Right now, I’m not clear
11 since, how fuzzy the video is And then, it's, in the video though, it
12 looks like he's holding a gun, so I'm just trying to understand, is
13 there, can you piece thattogether–
14 Officer Anthony Eugenio: Well, uh, this may help, uh, something, uh, that I was looking at, uh,
15 just a second ago. Um, so from the, from the shortened version of, so
16 a shortened version, um, you see his arm is extended right here? We
17 know that from the video, and then there’s the, an, an object in his
18 left hand, the dark colored object in his left hand. So, um, then, uh,
19 let’s go back and, uh, review, um, what, uh, you know, what the,
20 what the uh Power-Point showed on those and we'll watch that one
21 first. And, and, then actually, um, if we, if the Grand Jury would like
22 I can put it in my, um, in a, in a different tool but it allows us to do
23 frame-by-frame. So, this is, again, this is the 15, um, frames per
24 second, it's lighted, and, uh, this is, oops, I gotta go right here.
25 Brian Davidson: Officer Eugenio, from your review of the video, does it ever appear
26 that the firearm in the holster came out of Mr. Washington's pocket
27 and landed on the pavement?
224 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Officer Anthony Eugenio: No.
2 Brian Davidson: Um, so in, in your review of the video it appears that, um, it never
3 came out of his pocket until he apparently removed it from his
4 pocket uh, uh intentionally with his right hand.
5 Officer Anthony Eugenio: That's correct.
6 Brian Davidson: Okay. But, it is possible, um, I’d ask you officer, that, uh, perhaps
7 when Mr. Washington fell over, although the gun didn't come out of
8 his pocket, that a portion of the gun have struck the pavement?
9 Officer Anthony Eugenio: Correct.
10 Brian Davidson: Okay. And, that potentially would have made a noise.
11 Officer Anthony Eugenio: Right.
12 Brian Davidson: Yeah. Okay.
13 Officer Anthony Eugenio: In, in this, uh, video as well, um, when Mr. Washington stands up,
14 he has his arms out to the side, and it appears as he, as he's turning
15 that his arms separate, and then as hand is, left hand is down at his
16 side like the photo I showed you, it looks like he's got a dark object
17 in his hand. Um, I think if we go back and play the original, when he
18 falls down, you can actually hear a clunk on the sidewalk. And, if
19 you want to see that.
20 Other Speaker: Sure.
21 Officer Anthony Eugenio: ****
22 Other Speaker: Hey police.
23 Officer Anthony Eugenio: All right.
24 Other Speakr: Hey
25 Officer Anthony Eugenio: I gotta go to plan B here. So, uh, photos er um PowerPoint doesn't
26 like this file because it's like 1.3 gigs. And so, I have to, uh, play it a
225 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 different way, but I do have another way, a backup Plan B. I’ll let it
2 go the first time.
3 Other Speaker: Hey, police. Hey.
4 Other Speaker: ****
5 Other Speaker: ****
6 Other Speaker: Back up, back up
7 Other Speaker: He pulled a gun on us.
8 Other Speaker: Yah
9 Other Speaker: He did.
10 Other Speaker: He pulled a gun.
11 Other Speaker: Yah
12 Other Speaker: ****
13 Other Speaker: He pulled a gun.
14 Other Speaker: ****
15 Other Speaker: Hey.
16 Other Speaker: ****
17 Other Speaker: Hey,
18 Other Speaker: ****
19 Other Speaker: Hey.
20 Other Speaker: ****
21 Other Speaker: Hey. All you guys,
22 Other Speaker: ****
23 Other Speaker: Hey, hey, hey.
24 Other Speaker: ****
25 Other Speaker: Hey, sir, sir, gotta have ya back up.
26 Other Speaker: ****
27 Other Speaker: ****
226 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Other Speaker: Back up
2 Other Speaker: Get back
3 Other Speaker: He’s got a gun, he’s got a gun.
4 Other Speaker: Stop, stop, stop.
5 Other Speaker: Drop the gun, drop the gun
6 Other Speaker: Stop
7 Other Speaker: I will shoot youOfficer Anthony Eugenio: You don't see any
8 black object, um, you know, on the side-
9 Other Speaker: Fuck.
10
11 Offer Anthony Eugenio: er, on the side walk there, so,
12 Other Speaker: Oh, dude come on.
13 Other Speaker: Get up
14 Officer Anthony Eugenio: it's uh, clear that he maintained it.Yeah. Okay
15 Brian Davidson: Okay.
16 Other Speaker: Okay.
17 Officer Anthony Eugenio: Anybody else?
18 Other Speaker: Is this your, do you have any other footage other than just the body
19 cameras?
20 Officer Anthony Eugenio: That's all I, that's all I was uh given.
21 Brian Davidson: Can you show me again the, the still, uh, where his arm is extended?
22 Officer Anthony Eugenio: Yeah. And, there's another one, um, that we saw, um, when we,
23 when we uh, played it back that also shows the, um, the black object
24 in his other hand, in his left hand as he's swinging it forward.
25 Brian Davidson: And, and, can you point to that what you?
26 Officer Anthony Eugenio: Yeah, it’s right here.
227 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: So would, again, uh, knowing what you know, what you've seen in
2 the video, would you surmise that object to be the holster?
3 Officer Anthony Eugenio: Yes.
4 Other Speaker: So the thing I’m looking at ’and I’m not I’m s-, I have it correct but,
5 in that instance you got the gun, ’and he pulls it up, but then I’m not,
6 he shot over further to the right, correct? ‘Cause he slumps over that
7 way. Could I see it, I’m-
8 Officer Anthony Eugenio: I guess why-, I guess I'm not understanding what you're saying.
9 Other Speaker: Um, can I see again exactly when he was shot compared to that
10 moment.
11 Officer Anthony Eugenio: So, this is a, a different, uh, program. Um, again it allows us to
12 review the frame-by-frame and, uh, as we looked at the other image
13 that was on, um, that I had, uh, captured earlier, when, uh, Mr.
14 Dewey, er I'm sorry, when Mr. uh, Washington gets, you see the
15 object there, and then he's rotating his left hand and right there, you
16 pick it up right there. Okay. And so, then, which, uh, what, which uh,
17 uh, clip would you like to see?
18 Other Speaker: Well, I don’t know if it’s in any of the clips. I'm just wondering
19 where his, what his body language was when he was shot. Was his
20 arm extended?
21 Officer Anthony Eugenio: I think the, the best way to, uh, show that would be the, to play the
22 original again.
23 Other Speaker: Hey, police. Hey.
24 Other Speaker: ****
25 Other Speaker: ****
26 Other Speaker: Back up, back up
27 Other Speaker: He pulled a gun on us.
228 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Other Speaker: Yah
2 Other Speaker: He did.
3 Other Speaker: He pulled a gun.
4 Other Speaker: Yah
5 Other Speaker: ****
6 Other Speaker: He pulled a gun.
7 Other Speaker: ****
8 Other Speaker: Hey.
9 Other Speaker: ****
10 Other Speaker: Hey,
11 Other Speaker: ****
12 Other Speaker: Hey.
13 Other Speaker: ****
14 Other Speaker: Hey. All you guys,
15 Other Speaker: ****
16 Other Speaker: Hey, hey, hey.
17 Other Speaker: ****
18 Other Speaker: Hey, sir, sir, gotta have ya back up.
19 Other Speaker: ****
20 Other Speaker: ****
21 Other Speaker: Back up
22 Other Speaker: Get back
23 Other Speaker: He’s got a gun, he’s got a gun.
24 Other Speaker: Stop, stop, stop.
25 Other Speaker: Drop the gun, drop the gun
26 Other Speaker: Stop
27 Other Speaker: I will shoot
229 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Other Speaker: Fuck.
2 Other Speaker: Oh, dude come on.
3 Other Speaker: Get up
4 Other Speaker: Sorry, can you back it up just little bit more? I forgot to look at the
5 right side. The left side it goes out of screen.
6 Other Speaker: Hey, sir, sir, gotta have ya back up.
7 Other Speaker: ****
8 Other Speaker: ****
9 Other Speaker: Back up
10 Other Speaker: Get back
11 Other Speaker: He’s got a gun, he’s got a gun.
12 Other Speaker: Stop, stop, stop.
13 Other Speaker: Drop the gun, drop the gun
14 Other Speaker: Stop
15 Other Speaker: I will shoot
16 Other Speaker: Fuck.
17 Other Speaker: Oh, dude come on.
18 Other Speaker: Get up
19 Brian Davidson: It's maybe a little confusing because of the, ‘causeOfficer, uh,
20 McKenzie, who's actually on the left. His footage is playing on the
21 right side of the screen and Officer Dewey was actually on the right.
22 His footage is playing on the left side of the screen. So, I, maybe
23 that’s part of it but, um Okay.
24 Officer Anthony Eugenio: Anything else?
25 Brian Davidson: All right. Uh, Officer Eugenio, was there anything else you had to
26 share?
27 Officer Anthony Eugenio: Uh, no.
230 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: Okay. Um, did you um, are you running um, actually, we’ll, I’m
2 sorry, we'll go off the record now.
3 Officer Anthony Eugenio: Thank you.
4 Brian Davidson: And, we're back on the record. Our next witness is Mr. Mohamed
5 Tuffa.
6 Other Speaker: ****
7 Brian Davidson: Mr. Tuffa.
8 Other Speaker: ****
9 Brian Davidson: Mr. Tuffa, can you stand next to that black chair and raise your right
10 hand so they’llswear you in?
11 Other Speaker: Do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you are about to
12 give in the matter pending before this Grand Jury shall be the truth,
13 the whole truth and nothing but the truth?
14 Mohamed Tuffa: I do.
15 Brian Davidson: Go ahead and have a sea, and if you could state and spell your full
16 name for us please.
17 Mohamed Tuffa: Mohamed Tuffa. First name M-O-H-A-M-E-D last name T-U-F-F-
18 A.
19 Brian Davidson: Thanks for coming Mr. Tuffa. Um, what do you currently do for a
20 living? Are you a student? Do you work?
21 Mohamed Tuffa: Um, I was student at PCC but I work now.
22 Brian Davidson: What kind of work do you do?
23 Mohamed Tuffa: I work at Providence Park near ModaCenter.
24 Brian Davidson: Uh, concessions, or?
25 Mohamed Tuffa: Uh, I'm a server.
26 Brian Davidson: A server?
27 Mohamed Tuffa: Yeah.
231 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: Okay. All right, um, and, uh, how old are you?
2 Mohamed Tuffa: I'm 25.
3 Brian Davidson: 25, okay. Well, I think you know why we're here. We're here to
4 discuss this incident that occurred over by the Cheerful Tortoise
5 back in the early hours of the 29th of June. Um, my understanding is
6 that you were maybe out with some friends that evening?
7 Mohamed Tuffa: Yeah I was.
8 Brian Davidson: All right, um, did you live in the area at the time?
9 Mohamed Tuffa: No.
10 Brian Davidson: All right. So, when did you arrive downtown?
11 Mohamed Tuffa: Uh, I was there pretty much, I would say all day around from like
12 3 o'clock, 2 o'clock. I was there.
13 Brian Davidson: In the afternoon?
14 Mohamed Tuffa: Yeah.
15 Brian Davidson: on the 28th?
16 Mohamed Tuffa: I met up with some friends there and we were hanging out and
17 decided to go to a bar after ****.
18 Brian Davidson: Okay. Um, if you wouldn't mind, we're audio recording these
19 proceedings, so if you wouldn’t mind –
20 Mohamed Tuffa: Speak up a little more.
21 Brian Davidson: – speak up a little bit that would be terrific, thank you.
22 Mohamed Tuffa: Yeah, no problem.
23 Brian Davidson: Uh, so you were down town about 2 or 3 o'clock.
24 Mohamed Tuffa: Yeah.
25 Brian Davidson: Who were you hanging out with at that point?
26 Mohamed Tuffa: Uh, when I showed up I was by myself but when I was there I was
27 hanging out with, uh, one of my friends, Zack Walker and, uh, some
232 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 of the other people there, like, uh, Keyaira. She would be coming in
2 later on.
3 Brian Davidson: Keyaira Smith?
4 Mohamed Tuffa: Yeah, she’d be, so she's, we were there just hanging out the whole
5 time, you know.
6 Brian Davidson: When you see, say there, where do you mean??
7 Mohamed Tuffa: We were like outside the Cheerful, like on the, they have benches
8 there. So, we were already, like there at Cheerful and we were just
9 hanging out there because I-.
10 Brian Davidson: Is, uh, Patrick Dean also somebody you were hanging out with?
11 Mohamed Tuffa: Uh, he wasn't there at that time, no.
12 Brian Davidson: He wasn’t there, okay. Uh, and what were you doing, uh, while you
13 were there?
14 Mohamed Tuffa: Just hanging out pretty much, just chatting it up.
15 Brian Davidson: Uh, were you eating food?
16 Mohamed Tuffa: Uh, I don't remember to be honest. Uh, I don't think I was eating
17 food because, uh, I don't kn-, I don’t think I remember eating food
18 there.
19 Brian Davidson: Okay, and again if you could keep your voice up a little bit.
20 Mohamed Tuffa: I don't, I don't think I had food there. I don't
21 know.
22 Brian Davidson: Okay. Were you, um, drinking?
23 Mohamed Tuffa: Yeah, we were drinking there.
24 Brian Davidson: All right, what kind of things were you drinking?
25 Mohamed Tuffa: Beers.
26 Brian Davidson: Beers?
27 Mohamed Tuffa: Yeah, pretty much.
233 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm, all right. Um, all right, and so, uh, you were there from 2
2 or 3 o'clock. Um, were things kind of just typical? Is that a place you
3 hang out on a regular basis?
4 Mohamed Tuffa: Yeah, we go there almost every single day. That's our like, I used to
5 live, uh, in the building, uh, University Point right across the street,
6 so that was home to me, and that was where I go there for a long
7 time for about a year now if I didn't live there. And, so.
8 Brian Davidson: You’re k-, you’re kind of a regular at the Cheerful Tortoise?
9 Mohamed Tuffa: Yeah. I was a regular thereso, we just go there and they, they know,
10 they knew me like first name basis, so. I was just a everyday person
11 over there and then.
12 Brian Davidson: Um, are you sometimes referred to as Mo?
13 Mohamed Tuffa: Yeah.
14 Brian Davidson: Okay. And, you mentioned, you mentioned Zack Walker as
15 somebody you had met withright?
16 Mohamed Tuffa: Yeah.
17 Brian Davidson: Does he sometimes called YT?
18 Mohamed Tuffa: Yeah.
19 Brian Davidson: What does that stand for?
20 Mohamed Tuffa: I don't know.
21 Brian Davidson: You don’t know. Okay. All right. But, hat's what he, that’s his
22 nickname.
23 Mohamed Tuffa: Yeah.
24 Brian Davidson: YT. Uh, all right, so at some point did Patrick Dean show up? When
25 did that occur?
234 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Mohamed Tuffa: Uh, I think, later on at night, when like, when Cheerful Tortoise like
2 became more busy, you know. Like around say 11:00 or 10:00 or
3 something like that.
4 Brian Davidson: Mm-hmm.
5 Mohamed Tuffa: And, we just met up because I remember it was Thursday, so dollar
6 beer night. So, we were just there, you know, having fun.
7 Brian Davidson: All right, and, you expected to see Patrick Dean?
8 Mohamed Tuffa: No, I didn't expect to see him. People just show up there, you know,
9 so there were a lot of people, so. He was there, at that momentjust
10 say hey, you know, just started drinking together, and pretty much
11 yeah.
12 Brian Davidson: All right. Um, so, uh, at what point in the evening, um, did, I guess
13 this disagreement or I guess disturbance develop with, between you
14 and your group of friends and this uh, other group of people, uh, who
15 were at the Cheerful Tortoise?
16 Mohamed Tuffa: Um, I don't even remember the exact time, but I think the bar was
17 closing so I want to say 2:30 or so, or maybe sooner. Um, but, yeah,
18 we were, we were all done, you know. We were leaving the bar and
19 were, I remember we were just hanging out outside. We were
20 smoking a cigarette and like an altercation happened. We were just,
21 you know, arguing in the beginning because I remember hearing, I
22 don't, I wasn’t there for the whole thing, but Zack Walker told me
23 that a, you know, those guys have some, some racists and they, he
24 thought I was talking to him, and he said something racist back, and
25 then like an altercation happened, but my friend Zack Walker was
26 talking to somebody else, and Jeremy at that time thought he was
27 talking to him, and then he jumped in. And, you know, Zack told
235 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 him hey, I’m not talking about you man. Like, keep going. You
2 know, you don't need to worry about it, so, and that's when it got
3 like, you know, the altercation just started arguing and everything.
4 And, uh, that's when Jason, uh, helped get Jeremy out of the bar, We
5 were arguing, just following them, and I remember the bartender told
6 everybody to leave to, you know, like.
7 Brian Davidson: Hm. Let’s, let’s, I appreciate this. Let's slow it down just a little bit,
8 and kind of parse it out a little. Um, your e-, you say Jeremy, and
9 you're referring to Jeremy Wilkinson I think.
10 Mohamed Tuffa: Yeah, yeah.
11 Brian Davidson: Is that someone you were familiar with from before?
12 Mohamed Tuffa: No.
13 Brian Davidson: All right.
14 Mohamed Tuffa: Never met him.
15 Brian Davidson: And how do you know his name now? Just from?
16 Mohamed Tuffa: From the news uh, probably.
17 Brian Davidson: The news.
18 Mohamed Tuffa: I mean also, you know, talking to him after that and ****.
19 Brian Davidson: All right. And, Jason Washington, um, uh, is, uh, you said Jason, uh.
20 Mohamed Tuffa: I met him at the bar actually.
21 Brian Davidson: You met in the bar.
22 Mohamed Tuffa: I was drinking with him. I'd be, I was like we're, we're talking before
23 all this happened, yeah.
24 Brian Davidson: Okay, and –
25 Mohamed Tuffa: He's a good guy.
26 Brian Davidson: Were, was the interaction between you and Mr. Washington was
27 friendly?
236 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Mohamed Tuffa: Yes. He was a good guy. We were talking. He was tell you
2 something about his kids I remember, and likeyeah.
3 Brian Davidson: Hm. Okay. Um, so there was no altercation until it was kind of
4 around closing time and you guys, everybody was headed out, so
5 you're out.
6 Mohamed Tuffa: Yes.
7 Brian Davidson: And you describe being, who like, in your group who was out in
8 front of the Cheerful Tortoise at that point?
9 Mohamed Tuffa: Well, it was me, Zack Walker and, uh, a couple of other people, like
10 Keyaira, and, you know, you can see in the video there were a lot of
11 other people there. I don't, I can't name, I don't know who they are,
12 but I know like three or four people that were there in the video,
13 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
14 Mohamed Tuffa: Like a, one of my friends name is, name is Jock. Uh, uh, so he's one
15 of the guys over there, you know? He was like the first person in the
16 video and, um.
17 Brian Davidson: Which video are you referring to?
18 Mohamed Tuffa: The video where I was in it, where I was by.
19 Brian Davidson: The videotaping by Keyaira Smith?
20 Mohamed Tuffa: I think it was taken by her, yeah. Uh, she was behind everybody and
21 I was recording this samtime she was recording.
22 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. Okay. Um, so at the point that this altercation takes place,
23 uh how many drinks do you think you had during the day, while you
24 were at the Cheerful Tortoise?
25 Mohamed Tuffa: Uh, I want to say, enough to, you know, enough to be a little buzzed,
26 but like not enough to be blacked out drunk. Were black out drunk, I
27 remember everything single thing that happened that night man.
237 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: Okay, so, this testimony is from your recollection not from what
2 you’ve observed from the video?
3 Mohamed Tuffa: No, just from my recollection, yes. I was, I was sober enough to
4 know what I'm doing and I was sober enough to know everything
5 single thing that happened and what led up to it and what,
6 werecaused it and what mistakes happened.
7 Brian Davidson: Okay. So, on a scale of like 1 to 10, 1 being stone cold sober and 10
8 being the as intoxi-
9 Mohamed Tuffa: That would probably be 3 or 4.
10 Brian Davidson: 3 or 4.
11 Mohamed Tuffa: Yeah.
12 Brian Davidson: Okay, had you uh, taken any, uh, drugs or anything else that
13 evening?
14 Mohamed Tuffa: No.
15 Brian Davidson: Smoked any marijuana?
16 Mohamed Tuffa: No, just drinking, just drinking.
17 Brian Davidson: Okay. . Um, what about the other people involved. Did you have the
18 perception that anyone else was intoxicated, like YT or Patrick
19 Dean, or either, Jason Washington?
20 Mohamed Tuffa: No.
21 Brian Davidson: Or, Jeremy Wilkinson?
22 Mohamed Tuffa: Man, like, the, the drunkest person I would say there probably at that
23 time I'd say was Jeremy, but nobody was like, you know, like
24 blacked out drunk like that. Everybody knew what they were doing.
25 Everybody was, everybody was aware of their conscience and
26 everybody knew what was going on and the only person that were
238 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 yelling and arguing and just trying to start fights was pretty much
2 like Jeremy there-
3 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
4 Mohmed Tuffa: And he was like, see it on, clear it on the video. He was trying to get
5 held back by his friend, you know Jason and, so he was trying to
6 help him out.
7 Brian Davidson: Okay, and, and were you present when this conversation between
8 um, Zack Walker and Mr. Wilkinson occurred where, I guess Zack
9 Walker said something first and then Mr. Wilkinson said something?
10 Were you there when that happened?
11 Mohamed Tuffa: I wasn't, I wasn't there. That's what, uh, at the end of, uh, when I was
12 questioned by the police officer and everything and they released me
13 at the, n-, like 5 o'clock in the morning or something. Uh, when
14 we’re all talking. Zack Walker, that's when he told us, you know,
15 that Jeremy. I was talking to somebody else and then Jeremy walked
16 by and he thought I was talking to him, and then he got offended,
17 and that's when the, like, altercation or the arguing, argument started,
18 and nobody put their hands on each other. There was no fights, and
19 no altercation at the moment. But, there were like arguments and
20 everything and everybody was just told to leave at that moment, and
21 I was already outside smoking a cigarette, so.
22 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
23 Mohamed Tuffa: And, that's what I heard from Zack Walker. That's what he told me,
24 but after that, man, I saw everything.
25 Brian Davidson: All right. Okay, so just walk us through the rest of what you
26 observed. Uh, there's a dispute going on. Uh, my understanding is
27 you were saying is that, um, Jason Washington was kind of trying to
239 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 usher, uh, Mr. Wilkinson away. You guys were following. Is that
2 right?
3 Mohamed Tuffa: Yeah, we were keeping our distance because everybody saw Jason
4 Washington had a, a gun. You can clearly see he only had a T-shirt
5 on. Like, he wasn't trying to cover it or anything, so everybody saw
6 his gun. It was concealed carry. You know, so he was, everybody
7 was backed up and we were all scared. But, we weren't scared that
8 he was going to attack us with a gun. We were scared because like,
9 you know, something might happen and, like, it did happen. We
10 were scared because somebody might get hurt, and that did, that is
11 what happened at the end of the day. Uh, when Jason was helping
12 Jeremy, he was, ushering him out and everything, I was standing
13 there. You can see it clearly on the video, I was recording.
14 Brian Davidson: Where, where, where on his person did you see the gun?
15 Mohamed Tuffa: I was, on his hip, on his holster right there.
16 Brian Davidson: Okay, like his pocket or on his-
17 Mohamed Tuffa: On his holster right there. On his, there's like a little clip on his
18 holster hanging, and the gun was right there. You can see it.
19 Brian Davidson: Okay. Um, why were you, if you were scared, I mean, in the video
20 you’ve seenthe Keyaira Smith video it seems like you, you, your
21 group, you, Mr., uh, Walker, Mr. Dean were pretty aggressively
22 following, um, Mr., uh, Washington and Mr. Wilkinson as they
23 attempted to kind of leave. What, what was your thinking in doing
24 that?
25 Mohamed Tuffa: I wasn't following anybody. I was right there on the street of
26 Cheerful Tortoise where we were at the, exit, and we were hanging
27 out. I was recording. I wasn't following nobody and he was right
240 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 there, and I started recording and he got mad I guess, and he got mad
2 and he shoved me, and I said told him don’t touch me. Don’t put
3 your hands on me. And, the police are already on their way when,
4 when this argument was happening, you know? And, a couple of
5 minutes later like, 90 seconds later I believe, you can see the police
6 pulling up and then they just exit the car, you know. Doing nothing,
7 and you can see me and Jeremy.
8 Brian Davidson: Well, I'm not asking you what you saw in the video, right. I don't.
9 Mohamed Tuffa: Yeah.
10 Brian Davidson: We've got the video. I don't need you to tell us what necessarily is in
11 the video 'cause we have that. What I'm trying to do is get your
12 testimony about what you recall. And again, you're, is you’re giving
13 us your testimony as you remember it?
14 Mohamed Tuffa: yeah, I’m giving, yeah, I’m giving you my testimony. That's what
15 I'm saying.
16 Brian Davidson: Okay..
17 Mohamed Tuffa: About 90 seconds later we’re by Ma-, Mak’s Minimart at this point.
18 That's when Jeremy pushes me. That's when I’m like don't touch me,
19 you know? And they, like I was recording and Jason pulls him away
20 from there. He was pulling him away, pulling him, and then they
21 come walking half a block and then we're just recording, and we’re
22 just recording, recording.
23 Brian Davidson: Why, why, can I ask you why, is it, it's apparent in the video you
24 Mohamed Tuffa: 'Cause he was loud and.
25 Brian Davidson: let me, let me finish the question first. Okay, it’s apparent in the
26 video that you are putting your cell phone camera right in Jeremy
241 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Wilkinson's face as you followed him up the street. Um, why were
2 you doing that?
3 Mohamed Tuffa: I was putting myself in his face?
4 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
5 Mohamed Tuffa: I wasn't putting myself in his face. I was just Following-
6 Brian Davidson: Not self, cell phone, putting your cell phone.
7 Mohamed Tuffa: Cell phone?
8 Brian Davidson: Like, you were recording him by putting it like right up into his face.
9 Mohamed Tuffa: Because he was-
10 Brian Davidson: What was the purpose of following them as they attempted to leave
11 and then putting your cell phone camera in his face?
12 Mohamed Tuffa: Because anything could have happened at that moment. A fight
13 could have happened, like at that moment, so I was just recording
14 just for my own safety.
15 Brian Davidson: Why not just stay at the Cheerful Tortoise and let them walk away?
16 Mohamed Tuffa: It was closed and we were right there. We were outside the Cheerful
17 Tortoise. So, we were just standing there recording. And, we, that's
18 all we were doing and they, he got mad when we were recording. He
19 got physical.
20 Brian Davidson: You, You don't believe that you and Mr. Walker and Mr. Dean were
21 pursuing, uh, Mr. Washington and Mr. Wilkinson up the street as
22 they attempted to leave?
23 Mohamed Tuffa: I wasn't pursuing anybody. I wasn't saying no violent threats. I
24 wasn't saying nothing. I was just right there behind everybody else,
25 what everybody else was doing, and recording them just, standing
26 there and that's all we.
27 Brian Davidson: You don’t think you were following them up the street.
242 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Mohamed Tuffa: No, we're not following them on the street.
2 Brian Davidson: Would you like to watch the video?
3 Mohamed Tuffa: I saw the video.
4 Brian Davidson: It depicts you following them up the street.
5 Mohamed Tuffa: No, I'm not following them up the street. That's where they were
6 going and that's where we were. We were on the street. Everyone
7 was on the street.
8 Brian Davidson: So you guys were just happen to all be going in the same direction.
9 Mohamed Tuffa: We're on the street right there yes.
10 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. Okay, so, um, at some point this group ends up in kind of
11 this, as you know, in this kind of, uh, alcove next to Chipotle.
12 Mohamed Tuffa: Yeah.
13 Brian Davidson: Um, and, um, at some point Mr. Wilkinson uh, well let me back up.
14 At any point during this whole altercation did Mr. Washington
15 threaten anybody in your group with the gun that you saw?
16 Mohamed Tuffa: No.
17 Brian Davidson: Um, did he, he didn’t say anything about threatening you. He didn't
18 actually pull it out and brandish it?
19 Mohamed Tuffa: He didn't threaten nobody with it.
20 Brian Davidson: Do you remember Patrick Dean when the police arrived telling the
21 police that Mr. Washington had threatened your group with the
22 firearm?
23 Mohamed Tuffa: No, I don’t remember that.
24 Brian Davidson: Okay. So what, at what point did Mr. Wilkinson I think, at some
25 point I think Mr. Wilkinson grabs your cell phone and smashes it, is
26 that right?
27 Mohamed Tuffa: Yeah.
243 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: You recall that?
2 Mohamed Tuffa: Yeah.
3 Brian Davidson: Okay and what happened next?
4 Mohamed Tuffa: When he smashes my phone, it was back up like a little 10 seconds,
5 20 seconds before that when we're all still arguing in the little cove
6 in the little, right behind of, uh, Mak’s Mini Mart parking lot. We're
7 right there. We're arguing and the police were there. They pull up,
8 they don't say nothing.
9 Brian Davidson: Did you observe the police pull up?
10 Mohamed Tuffa: Yeah, they were right there. I was –
11 Brian Davidson: What, what'd they pull up in?
12 Mohamed Tuffa: In the green small car in the, their cruiser.
13 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. Are you familiar with that vehicle?
14 Mohamed Tuffa: Yeah of course.
15 Brian Davidson: Okay.
16 Mohamed Tuffa: It's PSU.
17 Brian Davidson: Right are you, and then you I guess when they pulled-
18 Mohamed Tuffa: I recognized it, yeah. I recognized that, I recognized it and I thought
19 the police were gonna stop the altercation.
20 Brian Davidson: Okay.
21 Mohamed Tuffa: I thought they were gonna pull everybody apart and everything was
22 gonna go all right. And they didn't do nothing. So just there, they
23 were just there watching. Literally just watching the altercation and
24 just standing there like this.
25 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
26 Mohamed Tuffa: And then that's when, uh, Jeremy smacked my phone out of my hand
27 and he, like I went to go reach for it and but he got to it first. And
244 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 then he smashed it on the ground and broke my phone or shattered. I
2 didn't know what happened because the police still have my phone in
3 evidence. I still haven't gotten that back. So, when that happened, I
4 responded. I lunged at him because earlier he shoved me and, uh,
5 damaged my personal property.
6 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
7 Mohamed Tuffa: So I retaliated and the police were right there and I felt like they
8 weren't helping me. And at that time they weren't doing anything.
9 So, like went on my own and then that's when we started fighting
10 and all I remember at that moment when we started fighting, we go
11 to the ground. And I try and get up and he's already knocked out on
12 the ground and when I –
13 Brian Davidson: Do you know, when you say he was knocked out, you mean Mr.
14 Wilkerson?
15 Mohamed Tuffa: Yeah, Jeremy.
16 Brian Davidson: Do you know how Mr. Wilkerson got knocked out?
17 Mohamed Tuffa: Uh, I remember how he, I don't remember how he got knocked out,
18 but I seen the video got him knocked out.
19 Brian Davidson: And what is your understanding of how he got knocked out?
20 Mohamed Tuffa: He was, somebody kicked him.
21 Brian Davidson: Who kicked him?
22 Mohamed Tuffa: Patrick.
23 Brian Davidson: In the head?
24 Mohamed Tuffa: Yeah ****.
25 Brian Davidson: All right. And at that point he was on top of you, Mr. Wilkinson,
26 correct?
27 Mohamed Tuffa: We were all on the ground, both of, yeah.
245 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: Okay, but you were on, have your back on the ground, was he over
2 the top of you?
3 Mohamed Tuffa: I was on my side and he was like, like right I don't even. I was on my
4 side because there was a bike pole and I was trying to get up and he
5 was like right next to me. He's trying to get up too and that's when he
6 got kicked in the face and ****.
7 Brian Davidson: Okay.
8 Mohamed Tuffa: After that, I was trying to get up and that's when all happens. Uh, I
9 see Jason. Jason's trying to pull everybody off of him and Jason falls
10 back.
11 Brian Davidson: Jason was trying to pull people off of who?
12 Mohamed Tuffa: Of, uh, Jeremy, Jeremy was right there because everybody was
13 crowding together.
14 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
15 Mohamed Tuffa: So he was pulling everybody off, you know, and the police officers
16 was right there again, watching, not doing nothing. They didn't say
17 police, get out of the way, stop the fight.
18 Brian Davidson: So if I can just stop you. You said you, they never said, announced
19 themselves as police?
20 Mohamed Tuffa: No, they didn't. They just pulled up and they just watched it. They
21 just sat there and then that's, I, I'm gonna get to this but at the end is
22 when they said police, like when –
23 Brian Davidson: At the end?
24 Mohamed Tuffa: At the end when he dropped the gun and everything and then they
25 said gun, gun, gun. Like drop the gun, police and then that's when
26 they started shooting.
246 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: All right. So if I were to retrieve the video where the, for one of the
2 first things the officer does is yell police ****.
3 Mohamed Tuffa: No, he says gun, gun, gun.
4 Brian Davidson: Do you want me to just play the video for you where one of the first
5 things he does is yell police when he gets out of the car?
6 Mohamed Tuffa: Play it. If he says police, he says police.
7 Brian Davidson: Well you, you just testified he didn't say police.
8 Mohamed Tuffa: I said he said police at the end. That's when I, fast forward at the end.
9 You'll know, you got a recorder right. You can look at it again.
10 Other Speaker: Hey police. Hey.
11 Other Speaker: Back up.
12 Other Speaker: ****
13 Other Speaker: Back up.
14 Brian Davidson: Did you hear him yell hey, police?
15 Mohamed Tuffa: Now I heard that, yeah.
16 Brian Davidson: Okay. So he did yell police?
17 Mohamed Tuffa: Okay, obviously he did, yeah. I didn't hear that. I was too involved in
18 the fight.
19 Brian Davidson: Okay. Um, so, uh, you were, you were saying you at that point, Mr.
20 Dean kicked Mr., um, Wilkinson in the head, knocked him
21 unconscious.
22 Mohamed Tuffa: Yeah.
23 Brian Davidson: And –
24 Mohamed Tuffa: That's when I was getting up.
25 Brian Davidson: Okay, what happened next?
26 Mohamed Tuffa: When I was getting up, uh, I see Jason fall down and when he falls
27 down, his gun falls with him and his gun is right next to him and I
247 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 was, I, I was, I was know, you should know not to pick up a gun in
2 front of a police officer. He picks up the gun and puts it in his
3 holster. I'm sure he's, he's a professional. He's, he's a, he's a Navy or
4 is he Army, or he's, he's a Veteran and as a Veteran or as a, of any
5 kind of service you do, you know military or anything, you know not
6 to leave your gun behind. Don't leave your rifle behind, right? I'm
7 sure that's what he was trying to do. So he got his gun and he put it
8 back in his holster and he was running away. He was running when
9 the police yelled gun, gun, gun, drop the gun and they shoot him. I
10 was maybe 2 feet away from him right when I heard the first shot, I
11 hit the ground.
12 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
13 Mohamed Tuffa: And that's, I don't move from there.
14 Brian Davidson: Okay.
15 Mohamed Tuffa: Yeah.
16 Brian Davidson: Were you watching Mr. Washington the entire time?
17 Mohamed Tuffa: I was right next to him. I was maybe as far as standing right in ****.
18 Brian Davidson: Right, that wasn’t my question.
19 Mohamed Tuffa: I was close to him.
20 Brian Davidson: Where, were, were–
21 Mohamed Tuffa: Were I watching him.
22 Brian Davidson: My question was were you watching him?
23 Mohamed Tuffa: Was I watching him? Yeah, I was watching him, I was right there.
24 Brian Davidson: Did you see him unholster the gun?
25 Mohamed Tuffa: He didn't unholster it. It fell out of his, uh, well holster when he fell.
26 Brian Davidson: No, I mean after he stood back up.
27 Mohamed Tuffa: Yeah.
248 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: Do you, did you see him unholster the gun?
2 Mohamed Tuffa: Yeah, he put his gun back and he started running.
3 Brian Davidson: That's not the question I asked.
4 Mohamed Tuffa: Yeah, he
5 Brian Davidson: My question is did you see Mr. Washington after he stood back up
6 unholster his gun?
7 Mohamed Tuffa: Unholster meaning did he take his gun out and try to point at
8 anybody?
9 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
10 Mohamed Tuffa: No he didn't do that.
11 Brian Davidson: Okay. You didn't observe that.
12 Mohamed Tuffa: No, he didn't do that.
13 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. Okay. Do you think your perceptions of what occurred
14 that night were at all impacted by your level of intoxication?
15 Mohamed Tuffa: No.
16 Brian Davidson: All right. And but you'd been at the Cheerful Tortoise drinking since
17 2:00 or 3:00 o’clock in the afternoon?
18 Mohamed Tuffa: Yeah, and trust me, you don’t forget things like that. You don't
19 forget somebody dying in front of you.
20 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
21 Mohamed Tuffa: You don't forget getting shot by police almost, almost, almost dying
22 your life flashing before your eyes. I know what this is all is. This is
23 to see if the police officer should be charged, right? Of course he
24 should be charged ****. He killed another human being. It doesn't
25 matter what, what happened.
26 Brian Davidson: Well actually, sorry, Mr., um, Tuffa, it's not actually, you’re here to
27 tell us what you recall.
249 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Mohamed Tuffa: Okay, yeah and I, I, I'm telling you every single thing. Okay, I know
2 you, you're over here being smart. I don't care.
3 Brian Davidson: I'm just trying to get, Mr. Tuffa, I’m just actually trying to get to the
4 truth of what occurred.
5 Mohamed Tuffa: Okay, I'm, I'm giving the truth, but you're stopping me. You only
6 want to hear the truth that you want to hear. You don't want to hear
7 the whole truth.
8 Brian Davidson: Well, the problem Mr. Tuffa is some of the thing you are testifying
9 to are demonstratively false because we've got video tape of some of
10 these things. Um, so, I'm trying to get to the truth of why your
11 account of what occurred is at odds in some respects with what is,
12 uh, plainly evident on the video that we have. So that's, that's, I'm not
13 trying to be hostile. I'm just trying to get to why your account of this
14 is, is at odds with the video of what we have of the incident. For
15 example, your testimony that police did not announce themselves
16 when they arrived. They did.
17 Mohamed Tuffa: Okay I didn't hear that.
18 Brian Davidson: Um, your accounting that Mr. Washington did not remove the gun
19 from the holster when that's on the video. In fact your accounting
20 that Mr. Washington never pointed the gun at the police when that is
21 also captured on the video. I'm trying to get to the bottom of why
22 your account is at odds with other pieces of evidence that we have in
23 front of us. I just don't know if it's because you were intoxicated and
24 your perceptions were not great or if it's because the scene was
25 chaotic. Uh, if your focus was elsewhere because you were involved
26 in a fight or if there are other reasons. But I'm trying to get to the
250 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 bottom of that. I'm not being hostile or smart, I'm just trying to get to
2 the bottom of it.
3 Mohamed Tuffa: Okay.
4 Brian Davidson: Um, Grand Juror you have any questions for Mr. Tuffa?
5 Other Speaker: Um, were you able to tell, um, from the time that the police arrived
6 and told him to drop the gun, how long was it before they shot?
7 Mohamed Tuffa: Uh, I don't know. I wasn't counting seconds, but it was as long as it
8 took me to get maybe half a car length of running across the street
9 and me hear the first pop and I hit the ground, not that long.
10 Brian Davidson: Why did you choose to run across the street when you did?
11 Mohamed Tuffa: Because I saw the gun on the ground.
12 Brian Davidson: So you began to run when you saw Mr. –
13 Mohamed Tuffa: I was already on the ground when **** was going off. As I said, I
14 was on the ground and so was Jeremy. Jeremy was knocked out on
15 the ground. I was on the ground at that moment. I was getting up and
16 then that's when Jason falls down and the guns on the ground. I see
17 the gun on the ground and I started running across the street where
18 he starts running.
19 Brian Davidson: Yeah.
20 Mohamed Tuffa: And then that's when they yell, drop the gun, drop the gun.
21 Brian Davidson: So what was it about the, just a gun. You know you, your
22 recollection is that the gun was just, Mr. Washington's gun as far as
23 you know, is just lying on the pavement. Is that what your
24 recollection is?
25 Mohamed Tuffa: Um, my recollection is that when I saw a gun, I needed to be as far
26 as away from it 'cause I'm a black man in America and anything
27 could happen. An accident could happen like it did that day and it
251 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 did. So, and I need to get as far away what, from what and that's
2 what I did.
3 Brian Davidson: Okay. But you knew there was a gun in the scenario earlier. You said
4 you knew that Mr. Washington had a gun.
5 Mohamed Tuffa: Yeah, yeah.
6 Brian Davidson: But you didn't, at that point you didn't feel like you needed to get
7 away. In fact you were following Mr. Washington.
8 Mohamed Tuffa: Nah, I was running away from the police because they saw the gun
9 and I knew something was going, something was gonna happen.
10 When police see a gun on a black man like that, I know how they
11 act. So I needed to be as far as away, away from there.
12 Brian Davidson: Hmm, okay. Um, but again in your recollection the gun was just
13 lying there on the pavement?
14 Mohamed Tuffa: Yeah, until he picked it up and put it back in his holster.
15 Brian Davidson: Okay. All right, um, any additional questions for Mr. Tuffa?
16 Other Speaker: Yeah, I just have one. So you, you said that the altercation happened
17 after closing. Uh, you were standing out on the front porch. There,
18 there was no other altercations earlier? That was first time anything
19 started happening?
20 Mohamed Tuffa: Yeah, pretty much. That's how it started.
21 Other Speaker: And there was, so at that point the doors were closed and nobody
22 was going back ****?
23 Brian Davidson: You have questions for Mr. Mohamed or Mr. Tuffa, excuse me, or
24 Mr. Mohamed, I apologize.
25 Other Speaker: Uh, okay, well, uh, we will, uh, that'll be, you wanna pause? That's
26 all we need from Mr., uh, Mohamed.
27 Other Speaker: ****.
252 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Other Speaker: Uh, and our next witness is, uh, Zachary Walker. Can you actually
2 remain standing for a moment Mr. Walker?
3 Zachary Walker: Oh yeah, my bad.
4 Brian Davidson: Yeah, raise your hand, they’ll swear you in.
5 Other Speaker: Do you slolom, solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you are
6 about to give in the matter pending before this Grand Jury shall be
7 the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
8 Zachary Walker: Yes sir.
9 Brian Davidson: Go ahead and have a seat and when seated spell your full name.
10 Zachary Walker: Uh, Zachary Walker, Z-A-C-H-A-RY, and Walker, W-A-L-K-E-R.
11 Brian Davidson: Um, Mr. Walker, uh, are you currently employed or do you go to
12 school?
13 Zachary Walker: Uh, no, yeah, I work out at Bimbo Bakeries up in Beaverton.
14 Brian Davidson: Okay and how long you worked there?
15 Zachary Walker: Uh, a week now.
16 Brian Davidson: Okay. What kind of things do you do there?
17 Zachary Walker: We, bakery stuff, it's like an assembly line.
18 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
19 Zachary Walker: Bagging, uh, putting stuff in packaging and stuff like that.
20 Brian Davidson: Okay.
21 Zachary Walker: Yeah.
22 Brian Davidson: And, uh, what, and what kind of other work have you done? Have
23 you done a student or–
24 Zachary Walker: Construction, assembly lines, intel stuff, semiconductors and wafers,
25 all that type of stuff.
26 Brian Davidson: Okay and how old are you?
27 Zachary Walker: Me, I'm only 22.
253 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: 22, okay and did you grow up here local?
2 Zachary Walker: Yeah.
3 Brian Davidson: Um, where at?
4 Zachary Walker: Me, I live up in Sellwood right now, but I bounce around.
5 Brian Davidson: Okay. Uh, did you go to high school local?
6 Zachary Walker: Yep.
7 Brian Davidson: Where'd you go?
8 Zachary Walker: I went to Sherwood, Wilson and West Linn.
9 Brian Davidson: Okay.
10 Zachary Walker: I'm a basketball player.
11 Brian Davidson: All right. Um, are uh, you are, uh, you're friends with the gentleman
12 that just walked out of here, is that right?
13 Zachary Walker: Yeah, I know him.
14 Brian Davidson: Tuffa.
15 Zachary Walker: Yeah.
16 Brian Davidson: Yeah, how long have you know, um?
17 Zachary Walker: I've known him for like 3 plus years.
18 Brian Davidson: Okay and how did you make his acquaintance?
19 Zachary Walker: I think it, man, Portland State party. That's what it was.
20 Brian Davidson: Okay. Were you, ah a student at Portland State at some point?
21 Zachary Walker: Nope.
22 Brian Davidson: Okay, just ****.
23 Zachary Walker: It be boomin' out here sometimes.
24 Brian Davidson: Okay. Um, and, uh, so, are you, uh, basically a kind of regular at the
25 Cheerful Tortoise, which is that campus bar?
254 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Zachary Walker: Oh, not anymore, they kicked everybody that was out in, who was
2 involved with the video, everybody out there, kicked everybody out
3 there. So we don't even go there no more.
4 Brian Davidson: Okay. But at the time this event occurred.
5 Zachary Walker: Oh yeah, yeah, we were in there every day, yeah.
6 Brian Davidson: Pretty common then for you to be there?
7 Zachary Walker: Oh yeah.
8 Brian Davidson: Um, you also familiar with a Patrick Dean?
9 Zachary Walker: Yeah, I know who that is.
10 Brian Davidson: Okay. Is he also a guy you would hang out with there?
11 Zachary Walker: Yeah, I know him, yeah.
12 Brian Davidson: Okay. Um, so let's go ahead and talk about, uh, the night this
13 happened, which would've been uh, started on the 28th of June and–
14 Zachary Walker: Mm hmm.
15 Brian Davidson: Going into the early hours of the 29th. Um, we just heard from Mr.,
16 um, Mr. Tuffa that, uh, you, uh, met up with him at Cheerful
17 Tortoise?
18 Zachary Walker: Yeah.
19 Brian Davidson: Earlier in the afternoon.
20 Zachary Walker: Yep.
21 Brian Davidson: Okay. Um, was there anybody else who was meeting up with ya, or
22 just the two of you or?
23 Zachary Walker: Whenever we get on the block, we just head to the bar then all the
24 rest of the friends would start pop, popping up there and showing up.
25 Brian Davidson: Okay.
26 Zachary Walker: Yeah.
255 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: Um, and is that the right timeframe you got there about 2:00 or 3:00
2 in the afternoon?
3 Zachary Walker: Yeah, oh, yeah, no that sounds about right, yeah.
4 Brian Davidson: Okay. And were you there for any particular reason or just to hang
5 out?
6 Zachary Walker: Just hang out, grab some drinks, food, all that.
7 Brian Davidson: Okay that would've been a Thursday evening I think, right?
8 Zachary Walker: Yeah, no, yeah, Thursdays get poppin' there, yeah.
9 Brian Davidson: And that's because of the drink specials?
10 Zachary Walker: Yep.
11 Brian Davidson: Dollar beer?
12 Zachary Walker: Yep.
13 Brian Davidson: Okay.
14 Zachary Walker: And then that's when everybody's there.
15 Brian Davidson: Got it. A lot of students from PSU right?
16 Zachary Walker: Yep.
17 Brian Davidson: Okay. Um, and, uh, did you have any food while you were there?
18 Zachary Walker: Oh yeah.
19 Brian Davidson: Yeah, what'd you have?
20 Zachary Walker: I had the wings.
21 Brian Davidson: Wings?
22 Zachary Walker: Yep.
23 Brian Davidson: Is it a wing special too? Is that what it is?
24 Zachary Walker: Uh, I think it, I don't know what day that is, but they do have a wing
25 special. It might have been the wing special day, but I don't know. I
26 couldn't tell you for sure.
27 Brian Davidson: Okay. Uh, and did, were you drinking I'm assuming?
256 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Zachary Walker: Yeah.
2 Brian Davidson: Okay, what were you drinking that night?
3 Zachary Walker: Coors light, the dollar beer, whatever it is, yeah.
4 Brian Davidson: Is it like a 12 ounce cup or something?
5 Zachary Walker: Yeah, 12 ounce, yeah, it was a small cup, yeah.
6 Brian Davidson: Okay. Um, and had you smoked any marijuana or done any drugs
7 previous to this?
8 Zachary Walker: I don't think so.
9 Brian Davidson: Okay. Um, how many beers did you consume that evening?
10 Zachary Walker: Maybe four.
11 Brian Davidson: Four of the Coors light specials?
12 Zachary Walker: Yeah, yeah.
13 Brian Davidson: Okay. And do you drink, drink any hard liquor?
14 Zachary Walker: I don't think I did.
15 Brian Davidson: No?
16 Zachary Walker: I don't think I did, no.
17 Brian Davidson: Okay. Um, and you were there 'til close right?
18 Zachary Walker: Yeah.
19 Brian Davidson: All right, so over the course of that would have been like 10 hours
20 and you only drank four beers?
21 Zachary Walker: Probably, yeah, four beers. My beer and alcohol are not my body
22 does not really like it too much.
23 Brian Davidson: Oh, okay.
24 Zachary Walker: Mainly there for the girls, the good time, all of that **** time, yep.
25 Brian Davidson: Okay. All right, so, um, what's your recollection about, uh, I guess,
26 how conflict developed between your group, which was basically
27 you, Mr. Dean, uh, Mr., uh, Tuffa and, um, this other group?
257 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Zachary Walker: Jeremy, Jason and, uh, I forgot the other guy's name, but.
2 Brian Davidson: Ryan Pratt?
3 Zachary Walker: Yeah, that's the other guy.
4 Brian Davidson: All right, do you, were you familiar with those folks from before?
5 Zachary Walker: We, we were talkin' to them in the bar.
6 Brian Davidson: That, that night was the first time you'd ever seen them?
7 Zachary Walker: Yeah, but I guess, I guess a couple of the other people, they seen
8 Jason there before I guess.
9 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
10 Zachary Walker: He's been there before although it was my first time to actually
11 meeting Jason and stuff like that.
12 Brian Davidson: So prior to everything kind of exploding, you had talked to Jason?
13 Zachary Walker: Oh yeah, I've talked to all three of them, yeah. We talked yeah.
14 Brian Davidson: Everything seemed cool?
15 Zachary Walker: Yep, it was like he was talking about like old generation black
16 people and there's a new generation. We have like no respect, stuff
17 like that. He's giving, giving me a little hard time type of stuff. No he
18 was a cool dude. He even bought me a drink in there too.
19 Brian Davidson: Okay. Uh, what about Mr. Wilkinson, everything was cool with him
20 in the inside bar?
21 Zachary Walker: Is that, uh.
22 Brian Davidson: Jeremy.
23 Zachary Walker: Jeremy, oh yeah, no, that was, yeah, that was before he got
24 belligerent drunk.
25 Brian Davidson: Okay.
26 Zachary Walker: Yeah.
27 Brian Davidson: All right.
258 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Zachary Walker: Everything was cool before that, yeah.
2 Brian Davidson: So explain to me how it happened that things became not cool.
3 Zachary Walker: Okay, so, I went to Chipotle, stuff happened at Chipotle. Somebody
4 ended up getting hit and then I run back. I told my friend, ****, I
5 guess –
6 Brian Davidson: **** I mean I got to slow you down for a second.
7 Zachary Walker: Yeah.
8 Brian Davidson: Okay. So this is the same evening?
9 Zachary Walker: Yeah, this is the same evening.
10 Brian Davidson: So, so after being.
11 Zachary Walker: Yeah, after everything was cool, uh, me and couple homeboys, we
12 walked to Chipotle or I walked to Chipotle, right.
13 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
14 Zachary Walker: And then some other dude, some, some white boy got slapped up
15 there when I was walking by and I watched. So I came back.
16 Everybody's in front of Chipotle. I come back. I start telling my
17 friends Jason, that has his back against me and he's talking to –
18 what's his name, what's his name.
19 Brian Davidson: Jeremy?
20 Zachary Walker: Jeremy and by that time Jeremy looks gone. He keeps thinking, I'm
21 like oh, some white boy just got slapped up. That's what I said. And
22 all the sudden, he's eaves dropping. He starts thinking I am talking
23 about him.
24 Brian Davidson: Okay. He, he hears white boy and thinks you're talking about him?
25 Zachary Walker: Exactly and it's just a group of us black guys just joking around, just
26 making jokes, right. And he's thinking that I'm talking about him.
27 And then I look at Jason, I'm like is he good? He's like, don't even
259 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 worry about him. He's drunk. He just, he's being weird. I was like
2 okay for sure. I was like but I'm not talking, I told Jeremy I'm not
3 talking about you bro, you're good, all that. 'Cause we were talking
4 in the bar fine and he just ran me and started thinking it was us and
5 then he started getting more antsy. He started getting vocal, stuff like
6 that and then Jason's like here, I'm just gonna move him. We're good.
7 He moves him to the other side of the street, across the street.
8 Brian Davidson: Is that in front of the Chipotle ****?
9 Zachary Walker: Yeah, so like where that sign is at Cheerful, it's like right there at that
10 second door.
11 Brian Davidson: Okay.
12 Zachary Walker: Yeah and then they got, so he takes him over across the street. I don't
13 know what happens exactly, but I think, I think I relect, uh, recollect
14 him saying nigga one of these times, like later on and when
15 everything's happening.
16 Brian Davidson: Mr. Wilkerson, Jeremy?
17 Zachary Walker: Jeremy, he says nigga. I'm have a whole bunch of black friends. We
18 all from Tampa, everybody from the south, stuff like that does not
19 happen. So then everybody's starting to get a little amped up and
20 then Jason's like come on guys. So we're like, all right, ****.
21 Brian Davidson: Did you perceive Mr. Wilkinson was, I mean I guess, you don't hear
22 white people use that word obviously.
23 Zachary Walker: No, it's not, I'm not gonna allow it happen period.
24 Brian Davidson: Right, right, um, so, do you think he was, I mean what, why was he
25 using it? What context, you have no idea why he was saying that?
26 It's a mystery? Okay.
260 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Zachary Walker: Oh, no, what, 'cause like in that matter of time when I went out and
2 went to Chipotle and when I came back, oh you could definitely see
3 his eyes glossed. Oh, he was smacked.
4 Brian Davidson: All right.
5 Zachary Walker: And when I mean smacked, I mean drunk. That's **** slang word.
6 Brian Davidson: Got it, okay.
7 Zachary Walker: Yeah.
8 Brian Davidson: Okay. All right, so hear him use some variation on the N-word.
9 Zachary Walker: And I'm over here just and then Jason's like oh, okay. And then when
10 he started hearing that, he was like oh, okay guys. 'Cause then, 'cause
11 my friends were starting to like, oh, what you saying? They start
12 coming, come across the street. I'm like all right guys, knock it off,
13 back it up, everyone backs up. And then, I don't know what happens.
14 Later on they walked back into the bar. I told the security guard, I'm
15 like this is a very bad idea to have, have Jeremy here at the bar after
16 he just said that 'cause we're all regulars. There's a lot of us, right.
17 Very bad, I'm like you got to get him out. So then eventually security
18 kicks him out and makes him go back outside, right. I try to get my
19 friends calmed down, set, settle down, right. Forget about it. Some
20 guy who's drunk. So then we back, go back outside and then you
21 probably seen the, you, the cell phone camera. That's basically where
22 all this starts. And then, Moe, he starts, he's like I'm gonna get this
23 all recording. He starts getting his phone on recording and then that's
24 basically all that starts happening. Yup.
25 Brian Davidson: Okay. So, in, in the video that uh, we’re probably taking about the
26 Keyaira Smith videos, that video that you're talkin' about, the ones
27 taken by Keyaira Smith, she a friend of yours also?
261 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Zachary Walker: Yeah, I mean I definitely know who Keyaira is, yeah. She should be
2 around the group, but I have the video on my phone, if I could.
3 Brian Davidson: So do we, we’ve seen it.
4 Zachary Walker: Okay.
5 Brian Davidson: Um, so, uh, it, it appears in the videos that Jason Washington has
6 tried to kind of intervene –
7 Zachary Walker: No, yeah. He, yeah, he was cool. Yeah, he was, I don't even think he
8 was drunk. He wasn't even, he wasn't even drunk. He didn't barely
9 have anything to drink or anything. I only saw him drink maybe two
10 max.
11 Brian Davidson: Okay.
12 Zachary Walker: But, he was leveled, nothing, sober. He was, and everybody knew he
13 had a concealed carrier and nobody was afraid. I knew because my
14 uncle and grandpa they have one of those.
15 Brian Davidson: Sure. You said a concealed carrier, what are you referring to?
16 Zachary Walker: Like concealed carriers.
17 Brian Davidson: Okay.
18 Zachary Walker: License. Gun.
19 Brian Davidson: You saw a gun?
20 Zachary Walker: Oh, yeah. His is concealed.
21 Brian Davidson: Well, it wasn't really concealed if you could see it though, right?
22 Zachary Walker: I mean, if it's out of your pocket and in a holster. Isn't that still
23 illegal?
24 Brian Davidson: Um, I don't know. It may or may not be. But, it wasn't concealed.
25 The fact that you could see it, you observed it. That's how you knew
26 it was there. You saw it in his pocket?
27 Zachary Walker: Oh, yeah. It was, it was out. Everybody could see it.
262 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: And, did you ever see that same gun in the possession of, of Mr.
2 Wilkinson?
3 Zachary Walker: Who's Mr. Wilkinson?
4 Brian Davidson: Jeremy, sorry.
5 Zachary Walker: I couldn't tell you that part. I –
6 Brian Davidson: You never yourself saw Mr. or Jeremy, uh, with that gun.
7 Zachary Walker: – no, because that would have probably been a different story. Yeah,
8 nobody saw him with it.
9 Brian Davidson: Okay.
10 Zachary Walker: Yeah, that wouldn't be, that would've made, yeah.
11 Brian Davidson: When did you first observe the firearm or become aware that the -
12 Zachary Walker: When he goes like, when he goes like this. When he's like, "All right
13 guys. Come on. Come on."
14 Brian Davidson: You mean Jason Washington?
15 Zachary Walker: Yeah. And, then he's like, "I have a concealed carry." And he made
16 surehe said everything he was spo-, and we’re like, "Okay." I told
17 my boys.
18 Brian Davidson: What, what, I'm sorry. What did he say to you?
19 Zachary Walker: He was like, he was like "I have a concealed carriers." He's just
20 making sure everybody knew.
21 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
22 Zachary Walker: Right. So, then nobody saw his gun and got spooked like, "Oh, he
23 has a gun."
24 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
25 Zachary Walker: He made sure everybody knew. Didn't take it out, wave it at
26 anybody, no nothing. It was like this.
263 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: Okay. So, you never saw Mr. Washington pull the gun out, like, uh,
2 leading up to this event?
3 Zachary Walker: No. I didn't see him pull a gun on anybody.
4 Brian Davidson: Uh, and he never threatened anybody with a gun?
5 Zachary Walker: No. That dude would have never. I just met, no, that dude was not
6 gonna do that.
7 Brian Davidson: Okay.
8 Zachary Walker: No.
9 Brian Davidson; All right. So, um, what happens next after Mr. Washington is kinda
10 tryin' to –
11 Zachary Walker: So, he's, he's like pushing back. I remember my friend Moe. This is
12 like going back to that video. It's like M, Moe is like right next to
13 him kinda. I don't know maybe he was a little close, in his bubble or
14 something, and he's recording. His homeboy's, like, tryin' to swipe at
15 the phone and stuff like that.
16 Brian Davidson: MM HMM.
17 Zachary Walkr: And, then Jason loses him and then he has to go grab Jeremy back,
18 pull him back, and this is like right in front of Mak's Market right
19 now.
20 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
21 Zachary Walker: This is right in front of Mak's. Brings him back and then everybody's
22 like, "What's up? What's up?" And, then he, they eventually start
23 walking that way. And, then his home boy is just not helping his
24 situation 'cause all he was –
25 Brian Davidson: You talking about Jeremy's,****
26 Zachary Walker: Yeah. Jeremy.
27 Brian Davidson: Jeremy's running his mouth?
264 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Zachary Walker: Yeah. Runnin' his mouth the whole time. All Jason did was try to get
2 his drunk friend home like any of us would have done, would try to
3 get their drunk friend back without any repercussions or anything.
4 And, then when this is happening, he tells me, "Hey, go grab" - I
5 forgot the other guy's name Pat, whatever, I don't know. The other,
6 other guy that was with ‘em.
7 Brian Davidson: Jeremy Pratt?
8 Zachary Walker: ****. There's three of 'em.
9 Brian Davidson: Right. Jeremy Pratt was their third friend.
10 Zachary Walker: He's the tall one. I'm talkin' about the –
11 Brian Davidson: Yeah, that's Jeremy Pratt.
12 Zachary Walker: Okay, yeah, him. Uh, okay, then he goes, he grabs him. I bring, he's,
13 like, will you go grab my homie? I was, like, yeah. I ran in the bar,
14 grabbed him, like, hey, there's a situation where I need to bring you
15 out here. Your friend's, your friend's drunk, right? So then he goes,
16 and then after that I don't even remember seeing him again.
17 Brian Davidson: Mr. Pratt.
18 Zachary Walker: The tall guy.
19 Brian Davidson: Yeah.
20 Zachary Walker: Yeah. I don't ever remember seeing him again, come back out.
21 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
22 Zachary Walker: Yeah.
23 Brian Davidson: Okay. So, uh, at this point you said you're in front of Mak's Market?
24 Zachary Walker: Yeah, Mak's Market.
25 Brian Davidson: So what happens, what happens next?
265 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Zachary Walker: So then they start walking kinda, like, where he gets shot at later,
2 where Jason gets shot at, like, kinda right over by there, and his
3 friend is just movin' his arms, throwin' stuff, and then, like, Moe –
4 Brian Davidson: When you say throwing stuff do you mean –
5 Zachary Walker: Like, no, throwin' his arms around, like, they, like, –
6 Brian Davidson: Okay.
7 Zachary Walker: – I don't know. He was drunk, and then he was just bein' crazy, and
8 then he was throwin' his arms around. So then we start walkin' up by
9 him, and then Jason's, like, everybody chill out, and I'm tryin' ta tell
10 my friends to chill out too, 'cause, like, we're both kinda the
11 mediators. I'm, um, my friends, I usually keep them in line and stuff,
12 and then sudden, all the sudden, when it's, like, by the wall stuff like
13 that, Jeremy, like, slaps Moe's phone out of his hand, and then Moe
14 gets mad and he's like this, and then all a sudden he walks up, picks
15 Moe's phone up, and whoo. By that time, all 'a sudden –
16 Brian Davidson: Do you, Do you, , we're recording this, so I wanna make clear, ,
17 your, did a motion like so **** Mr. Wilkinson threw –
18 Zachary Walker: Threw, –
19 Brian Davidson: – Mr. –
20 Zachary Walker: – yeah.
21 Brian Davidson: – Tuffa's phone on the ground.
22 Zachary Walker: Yeah.
23 Brian Davidson: Okay.
24 Zachary Walker: Said that.
25 Brian Davidson: All right. If we justback up for just a second. Um, so there seemed to
26 be kind of two, in the video we reviewed from Keyaira Smith for
27 example, there seemed to be kind of two episodes. One where, um, it
266 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 seemed to depict your group, um, in an earlier, earlier of the two
2 episodes kind of, uh, following Mr., um, Washington and Mr., uh,
3 Wilkinson down Sixth Avenue, uh, –
4 Zachary Walker: That's right next to Mak's.
5 Brian Davidson: – uh, yeah, just kind of, uh, east of, the Cheerful Tortoise –
6 Zachary Walker: So then there's Mak's and then there's that street and then there's,
7 like, the housing.
8 Brian Davidson: Yes.
9 Zachary Walker: Yeah.
10 Brian Davidson: Uh, and then, you know, kinda following them, and they were, then
11 Mr. Wilkinson and Mr., uh, Washington retreat back towards the
12 Cheerful Tortoise. That's when the video ends, and then there's a
13 second episode which kinda starts, uh, across the street from the
14 Cheerful Tortoise right in front of Mak's –
15 Zachary Walker: Okay, that's the situation I'm talkin' about right now.
16 Brian Davidson: Okay. So, I, in both videos it, it seems like Mr. Washington and Mr.
17 Wilkinson are attempting to get away from your group, from
18 yourself, and Mr., uh, Tuffa, and Mr. Dean, and, uh, there's a lot of
19 just, uh, your group seems to be following them and, uh, shouting
20 threats and things of that nature. Is that your recollection of how that
21 went?
22 Zachary Walker: I wouldn't say shouting threats, exactly. When you have a, when you
23 have a dude who's yelling racist stuff, –
24 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
25 Zachary Walker: – that's all I'm gonna say. Uh, you can't just be yellin' anything, and
26 nobody had a problem with Jason or his other friend.
27 Brian Davidson: Okay.
267 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Zachary Walker: Not like we tryin' to follow them or anything like that.
2 Brian Davidson: Okay, but in the second episode when Jason's trying to usher Mr.
3 Wilkinson kind of away from the scene, –
4 Zachary Walker: Mm hmm.
5 Brian Davidson: – kinda eastbound on or, I'm sorry, westbound on College, right,
6 towards the Chipotle, right?
7 Zachary Walker: Okay, yeah. I know where you're talkin'.
8 Brian Davidson: But you're, again you and Mr., um, Mr., uh, Tuffa and Mr. Dean
9 seem to be kinda following, attempt, trying to engage it seems like
10 with, uh, with Mr. Wilkinson.
11 Zachary Walker: Why – nobody tryin' to fight a dude when his best friend has a
12 concealed carrier's.
13 Brian Davidson: Well, why are you following 'em? Why, why's the –
14 Zachary Walker: All we want is a damn fuckin' apology.
15 Brian Davidson: Is that what you wanted?
16 Zachary Walker: Yeah, that's what, all we wanted.
17 Brian Davidson: Okay.
18 Zachary Walker: They didn't need ta be like that. All we wanted is a frickin' apology.
19 Brian Davidson: So that's why your group's following 'em, –
20 Zachary Walker: Yeah.
21 Brian Davidson: – just to get an apology.
22 Zachary Walker: 'Cause the most dumb thing woulda been is ta try to start a fight with
23 a guy who has a concealed gun, and if he feels like his life is in
24 danger or his friend's, he can legally do what it gotta take.
25 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. Okay. So, uh, you were telling us how, um, Mr.
26 Wilkinson knocked the phone out of Mr. Tuffa's hand –
27 Zachary Walker: Tuffa's hand, yeah.
268 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: – and then smashed it in front of Mr. Tuffa. What happened next?
2 Zachary Walker: And then all a sudden, all I remember is, I looked to the right and
3 there's just randomly, there is just a cop sittin', the, just a cop
4 standing right next to us. Didn't say, oh, it's a cop, police, I didn't
5 hear anything. I just looked and then, then he comes, smashes the
6 phone, the cop is literally – can I stand up right?
7 Brian Davidson: Sure.
8 Zachary Walker: The cop is literally just like this. I'm over here right next to my
9 friend tryin' to break both, everybody up, right? Jason's doin' the
10 same thing too, right? And this cop is literally, I didn't even see him
11 put one hand on anybody and say, oh, this, I'm gonna tell ya, literally
12 chilling here, not doing anything, doesn't say anything to anybody,
13 or anything like that.
14 Brian Davidson: You, so you didn't hear, you didn't hear the patrol vehicle pull up?
15 Do you remember seeing the patrol vehicle? The PSU police
16 vehicle?
17 Zachary Walker: I might, I mighta seen one, uh, I'm just kinda, like, tryin' to get in my
18 head, like, what time I saw lights, was it after when all them started
19 pulling up. I might have seen, there might've been that one pulled up.
20 I don't know. 'Cause if there was, usually they're always, like, oh,
21 police, knock it off and, but this guy was silent. He didn't say
22 anything when it all happened. All a sudden, you know, this cop
23 didn't say – Officer Dewey, that's who it is.
24 Brian Davidson: Are you familiar with him from before?
25 Zachary Walker: Oh, yeah. He be harassing everybody on the block over there.
26 Brian Davidson: Oh.
27 Zachary Walker: You can ask everybody.
269 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: All right.
2 Zachary Walker: A lotta people do not like that guy.
3 Brian Davidson: Okay. Um, all right, so you don't remember hearing the officer
4 announce police when he arrived?
5 Zachary Walker: He didn't say anything.
6 Brian Davidson: Okay. You're sure he didn't say anything?
7 Zachary Walker: Oh, I'm a hundred. I was right there. I didn't hear him say anything.
8 Brian Davidson: If he had said something, like, –
9 Zachary Walker: Oh, I woulda heard it. He woulda been, he woulda been right next to
10 me. I woulda heard it.
11 Brian Davidson: Okay. Um, all right, so, uh, phone is smashed and then what does
12 Mr. Tuffa do?
13 Zachary Walker: Tuffa goes, for him bein' a dumb ass, grabs him, throws him on the
14 ground, when that's happening, I'm on the ground, I'm right next to
15 him, the cop's right next to me, I think Jason's right here tryin' ta,
16 like, push his friend away. All of a sudden, right, and then I'm
17 looking, I see two, I see Jason and him fall, and I hear clink.
18 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
19 Zachary Walker: In my back a my head I said, uh, oh, I think I know what that is. So I
20 start turning this way and then by that time –
21 Brian Davidson: Which, which direction are you –
22 Zachary Walker: Okay, so, –
23 Brian Davidson: – turning in relation to what was goin' on?
24 Zachary Walker: – so Chipotle's right here, that beams right here, that, uh, Mak's and
25 that other street's right here. It's, like, right next to that little, uh, pay
26 to park, right over by that meter. I'm right here, I hear a clink, and I
27 hear people, oh, huh, makin' noises, and I look, and I see something,
270 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 and I'm pretty sure it's a gun. It's a gun right here on the side, right? I
2 was lookin', and I said, oh, no, and I turned this way, and then when
3 I get, I heard gun, and I look over and I seen him goin' like this.
4 Brian Davidson: You see who?
5 Zachary Walker: I see Jason movin' away from, like, back turn, like, movin' away, –
6 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
7 Zachary Walker: – and I hear gun, and I move backwards, and I'm, like, –
8 Brian Davidson: Do you know who said gun?
9 Zachary Walker: I couldn't tell you. Eh, I'm pretty sure it was not Officer Dewey. It
10 was the other guy I think, um, and I just thought in my head –
11 Brian Davidson: At this point apparently there, uh, there's another officer at some, uh,
12 at some point.
13 Zachary Walker: No, yeah, later there is, another officer does pull up.
14 Brian Davidson: Uh, in a separate car?
15 Zachary Walker: I couldn't tell you. I wasn't payin' attention. I was, adrenaline is
16 rushin', I'm pushin' people off, all –
17 Brian Davidson: At some point you perceived a second officer was there?
18 Zachary Walker: Oh, no, yeah, yeah, 'cause I Snapchatted it all afterwards, af, after
19 everything happened.
20 Brian Davidson: Okay.
21 Zachary Walker: So then all a sudden, and then they're like this, or both like this, and
22 there's another one standing right, right here.
23 Brian Davidson: How, um, how many officers we talkin' 'bout now?
24 Zachary Walker: Two, there's only two, Dewey, and I'm, I'm pretty sure Dewey's
25 closer to me and this other guy's over there, and I'm, like, oh, no,
26 and, boom, boom, boom, and I'm looking back and forth. I see, I see
27 this, uh, flash from the gun. I see him go boom, boom. Oh, yeah,
271 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: No, ****. So you look, are you looking at the
2 officers at this point or are you looking at Mr. Washington?
3 Zachary Walker: I'm lookin' at Mr. Washington. I hear it, and then I'm lookin' at, back
4 this, I see the fire come, oh, they put enough into him for me to
5 watch him and then watch him fall.
6 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. Okay, so you, you sound like you were running away, but
7 how are you able to look able to back, I mean, how are you seeing
8 everything –
9 Zachary Walker: Okay, so I was running away, –
10 Brian Davidson: – that’s happening as you are running away?
11 Zachary Walker: – so I was running away after I heard the gun and then I just stopped,
12 'cause I knew what was gonna happen, and I said, oh, no. I'm just
13 walkin' backwards like this, my hand on my head, –
14 Brian Davidson: Uh hu.
15 Zachary Walker: – and they're just, boom, boom, boom.
16 Brian Davidson: Okay, and did you ever hear the officers, uh, yell for Mr.
17 Washington to not pick the gun up?
18 Zachary Walker: I don't know. I couldn't tell you that one.
19 Brian Davidson: Okay. And did you ever hear the officers yell at him to drop the gun?
20 Zachary Walker: All I heard, all I remember is hearing, "Gun, gun, gun." And then
21 bein' a African-American ma, oh, I'm bolting. I'm outta that situation
22 quick as I could be.
23 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. And do you remember the officers yelling at Mr.
24 Washington if he didn't drop, then they would shoot him?
25 Zachary Walker: Nope. I don't remember hearin' that.
26 Brian Davidson: Okay. All right. Um, okay. So, um, were, uh, were you looking at
27 both Mr. – were you just looking at the officers or were you looking
272 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 at Mr. Washington, or Mr. Washington and the officers
2 simultaneously? Where was your attention at when the shots were
3 fired?
4 Zachary Walker: Okay. When I, I saw their guns and I said, "Oh, no." Then when I
5 looked over I heard boom, boom when I'm lookin' at Washington.
6 And then I looked back over and I seen, right at their pistols and I'm
7 looking back and he's just dropped on the ground, face down.
8 Brian Davidson: Okay. So you, when shots were fired you were looking more at the
9 officers than you were looking at Mr. Washington. Is that accurate?
10 Zachary Walker: In the beginning I was lookin' at Washington, and then I heard the
11 guns goin' off and I saw him go like that, and then I look at the guns,
12 gettin' shot at. Yeah.
13 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. Okay.
14 Zachary Walker: But at the end of the day, I focus more at, at the cops, at the end of
15 the day.
16 Brian Davidson: Okay.
17 Zachary Walker: Shootin'.
18 Brian Davidson: And were you able to discern whether Mr. Washington had the gun
19 in his hand at the time?
20 Zachary Walker: I didn't see any gun either. 'Cause I was right there. I was, I, I didn't
21 see a gun or anything. I just saw a gun on the ground earlier.
22 Brian Davidson: Okay. And then after it was all over, did you see a gun, uh,
23 associated to Mr., uh, that gun that you'd seen earlier, did you see
24 that anywhere in the scene?
25 Zachary Walker: That's the weird part. I never saw it again after that.
26 Brian Davidson: Hmm.
273 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Zachary Walker: And I woulda thought they would, it woulda been fel, I, I don't know
2 if they picked it up immediately or anything. I didn't see it.
3 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
4 Zachary Walker: I didn't see it again.
5 Brian Davidson: Yeah.
6 Zachary Walker: Yeah.
7 Brian Davidson: Okay. All right. Okay. So, um, any questions from the Grand Jury?
8 Other Speaker: I did have one. So can you play back to me what, what, you said you
9 heard the gun clink on the ground –
10 Zachary Walker: Uh hu –
11 Other Speaker: – and that's when you got scared and wanted to run. I'm just tryin' to
12 understand, especially given that you knew that he had a gun, I'm
13 tryin' to understand what was in your mind going on?
14 Zachary Walker: My, my mind was like, oh, he's an African-American man, if this is
15 what the sound, 'cause like my, I've been around, raised around guns
16 and stuff like that, holsters, that's what I just thought that click was,
17 'cause I both saw them, both, they fall down, and I heard a click, and
18 then I hear, and I look out on the side and there's like something on
19 the ground. And I'm like, and then I hear, "Gun!" And I can hear
20 Keyaira screaming "gun," and I just turn around and I just start
21 runnin'. Then I put my hands on my head and I'm lookin' at
22 Washington, and he's like stumbling, going backwards, not even
23 turnin' his body. Stumbling, going backwards. And then I, and then I,
24 boom, boom, boom, and I saw him go like this and I just start lookin'
25 at the officers and watchin' the pistols goin' puh, puh, puh, puh.
26 Yeah. And I, and I feel like that, there was, there was millions of
27 other opportunities for that whole thing to be taken care of, like the
274 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 officer going to the guy, askin' him to grab his gun, it was, it was,
2 everybody there, it was obvious. That shoulda been his first thing. I
3 don't know how it goes, right? He shoulda never died. There woulda
4 been many other opportunities for that guy never to lose his life.
5 Yellin' at somebody, oh, there's police present, stuff like –
6 Brian Davidson: Well actually, I'm gonna stop you, Mr. Walker, because actually,
7 you know, the purpose of your testimony is to tell us what you
8 remember about what happened.
9 Zachary Walker: Oh, okay.
10 Brian Davidson: Um, I appreciate your input yeah,
11 Zachary Walker: Oh, yeah. No, I, I'm cool. Yeah.
12 Brian Davidson: but, yeah, prim, primarily you're here as a witness, fact witness.
13 Zachary Walker: Yeah.
14 Brian Davidson: Does anybody else have any questions about what Mr. –
15 Other Speaker: Umm, I do–
16 Brian Davidson: – Walker observe?
17 Other Speaker: So you said um, right before you heard the guns going off, what was
18 the last thing you saw Mr. Washington doing?
19 Zachary Walker: Right before guns went off, I'm like this. I look, I look at him and
20 he's goin' like this. Like moving the other way, like towards, the
21 opposite way from the other people. And then I hear, "gun" and then
22 pftt – that's when it all started.
23 Other Speaker: How many seconds, would you say, it was between when you last
24 observed him and then you heard shots?
25 Zachary Walker: Less than a second.
26 Other Speaker: Mm.
27 Zachary Walker: Maybe a second.
275 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Other Speaker: Okay. Thank you.
2 Brian Davidson: Any other ques-
3 Other Speaker: I have one other question if you wouldn’t, oh, iIs there somebody
4 else?
5 Other Speaker: hu uh.
6 Other Speaker: No? Okay. Um, I actually, I was just remembering what you had
7 talked about, uh, knocking the cell phone to the ground, and, uh –
8 Zachary Walker: Mm hmm.
9 Other Speaker: – the fight was going on there. What were you doing right there,
10 were you –
11 Zachary Walker: I was literally just standing there watchin' it all happening.
12 Other Speaker: Okay.
13 Zachary Walker: Until like, when, when my friend grabbed the guy and threw him on
14 the ground. That's when I went in and started helping pu, push
15 people, tryin' to break it up.
16 Other Speaker: Yeah. Okay.
17 Other Speaker: I guess I have another question. So when were you first aware that
18 there were, there was a cop on the –
19 Zachary Walker: Right when he, like, went to grab him and pushed him by, like, the,
20 that green pole, the, the ticket meter or whatever it is. That's when I
21 noticed there was a cop right next to me. 'Cause I'm like lookin' at
22 him, oh, that's a cop. Like usu –
23 Other Speaker: That was before or after the cell phone smash?
24 Zachary Walker: That was right after the cell phone smash.
25 Other Speaker: Okay.
26 Brian Davidson: Okay. Any other questions for Mr. Walker? No? All right. We'll go
27 off the record.
276 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: Sort of a black chair right there, raise your right hand. Uh the state,
2 uh, we're back on the record and the State's next witness is Keyaira
3 Smith. Ms. Smith, you can raise your right hand and we'll swear you
4 in.
5 Other Speaker: Do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you are about to
6 give in the matter pending before this Grand Jury shall be the truth,
7 the whole truth and nothing but the truth?
8 Keyaira Smith: I do.
9 Other Speaker: ****.
10 Brian Davidson: Go ahead and have a seat. And if you wouldn't mind, uh, stating and
11 spelling your full name for me.
12 Keyaira Smith: Keyaira Neva Marie Smith. K-E-Y-A-I-R-A, do you want my
13 middle name as well?
14 Brian Davidson: Sure.
15 Keyaira Smith: N-E-V-A, hyphen, Marie, M-A-R-I-E –
16 Brian Davidson: Okay.
17 Keyaira Smith: – Smith.
18 Brian Davidson: And Ms. Smith, uh, how old are you?
19 Keyaira Smith: Nineteen.
20 Brian Davidson: And, um, do you go to school, do you work, what do you do?
21 Keyaira Smith: Um, I work. I'm a full-time in-home caregiver.
22 Brian Davidson: And you do that here in Portland, or?
23 Keyaira Smith: Yes. I work in the Portland area.
24 Brian Davidson: And how long have you been doing that kind of work?
25 Keyaira Smith: Um, since I turned 18, 18, so like a year.
26 Brian Davidson: All right. And, um, did you go to school here in Portland?
27 Keyaira Smith: Hmm mm.
277 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: Where'd you go to school at?
2 Keyaira Smith: Um, I did not go to school.
3 Brian Davidson: You go to high school?
4 Keyaira Smith: Yes, I went to, uh, Scappoose High School.
5 Brian Davidson: Scappoose High School
6 Keyaira Smith: I thought you meant, like, college 'cause we're by a college.
7 Brian Davidson: No, no. Um, okay. Great. Um, you know why we're here. We're
8 gonna talk about this incident that occurred –
9 Keyaira Smith: Yes.
10 Brian Davidson: – at, uh, kinda around the Cheerful Tortoise back on, uh, the early
11 hours of the 29th of June.
12 Keyaira Smith: Mm hmm.
13 Brian Davidson: Um, were you at the Cheerful Tortoise that evening?
14 Keyaira Smith: Yes.
15 Brian Davidson: And what were you doin' there?
16 Keyaira Smith: Um, I was just sitting outside. I think I was maybe, like, drinkin'
17 water, like waiting for some friends to show up, 'cause I can't go in
18 the bar –
19 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
20 Keyaira Smith: – after a certain time.
21 Brian Davidson: Right.
22 Keyaira Smith: So I was just sitting out in front of, um, like on the side that faces the
23 Mini-Mart, just at the picnic tables.
24 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. And what time did you arrive there?
25 Keyaira Smith: Oh, I don't know. I have no idea. I don't remember.
26 Brian Davidson: Like, uh, early afternoon? Evening?
27 Keyaira Smith: Oh, it, it was closer to evening. It was a little closer to evening time.
278 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: Like 7, 8, 9?
2 Keyaira Smith: Yeah, somethin' around there.
3 Brian Davidson: All right. And, and you had plans to meet someone specific there?
4 Keyaira Smith: Uh, usually just we all kind of end up there, at, like, some point in
5 time. Like, someone will, like, drive by or whatever, and, like, we'll
6 see someone that we know, 'cause everyone lives either at the
7 University Point or within a few blocks from there. So –
8 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
9 Keyaira Smith: – I was just out there, just needed to get some air. There were, like, a
10 bunch of people in our apartment and I was, like, uh, so many
11 people.
12 Brian Davidson: So you were living in the area?
13 Keyaira Smith: Yeah, I was staying with a friend up there, at UP, at the time.
14 Brian Davidson: UP or PSU?
15 Keyaira Smith: U, University Point.
16 Brian Davidson: Oh,
17 Keyaira Smith: They call it UP.
18 Brian Davidson: UP.
19 Keyaira Smith: University Point.
20 Brian Davidson: Gotcha.
21 Keyaira Smith: Yeah.
22 Brian Davidson: That's the nickname for the apartment complex.
23 Keyaira Smith: Yeah.
24 Brian Davidson: All right. That student housing?
25 Keyaira Smith: Uh, no.
26 Brian Davidson: No.
27 Keyaira Smith: It's –
279 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: But a lot of students live there?
2 Keyaira Smith: Yeah, a lotta students live there 'cause it's cheaper, but really, anyone
3 can move in there. You don't have to be a student.
4 Brian Davidson: All right. And so were you, uh, I guess, for lack of a better term,
5 kind of a regular at the Cheerful Tortoise? At least not inside,
6 maybe, but outside?
7 Keyaira Smith: Yeah, kind of. Yeah. They knew who I was. I mean, I walk my dog
8 past them every day. They love my dog. So yeah.
9 Brian Davidson: Okay.
10 Keyaira Smith: They all know me.
11 Brian Davidson: And, um, we've heard some other witness, from other witnesses, all,
12 uh, already today, as you know. Um, Zack Walker, who I think he
13 goes by YT.
14 Keyaira Smith: Yeah.
15 Brian Davidson: You know him?
16 Keyaira Smith: Yeah. That was so weird though. I've never heard his actual name.
17 Brian Davidson: Oh. Sorry, yeah.
18 Keyaira Smith: I was, like, should I pretend I know who this is? I don't think I do,
19 and then I was like, yeah.
20 Brian Davidson: Oh, so, but, so you know him as YT?
21 Keyaira Smith: Yes. Yes.
22 Brian Davidson: Okay. Uh, and Mohamed Tuffa.
23 Keyaira Smith: Yes.
24 Brian Davidson: Uh, and you know, um, Patrick Dean.
25 Keyaira Smith: Yes.
26 Brian Davidson: Uh, and how do you know those folks?
280 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Keyaira Smith: Um, we all have just kind of met each other through mutual friends. I
2 met, uh, Zack, YT, um, through just kind of like the Cheerful
3 Tortoise area, and I met, um, Tuffa the same way, and then I actually
4 know, uh, Patrick's girlfriend.
5 Brian Davidson: Hmm.
6 Keyaira Smith: So that's how we kinda, I didn't, we didn't put it together until, she
7 was like, "Oh yeah, there's my boyfriend." I'm like, "Oh, okay." But
8 yeah, we know, I know of them.
9 Brian Davidson: All right.
10 Keyaira Smith: So –
11 Brian Davidson: And were those some of the people you were planning on hanging
12 out with that evening?
13 Keyaira Smith: Uh, yeah. But, like, not really. 'Cause like I said, we kinda just ****
14 show up, I didn't really know who was gonna be outside, but also I
15 was just getting air, 'cause I was like, why not?
16 Brian Davidson: Okay. Now, um, I understand that you're under age to go –
17 Keyaira Smith: Mm hmm.
18 Brian Davidson: – inside and drink, but had you had anything to drink –
19 Keyaira Smith: Hmm mm.
20 Brian Davidson: – or any drugs, marijuana, anything at all like that that you –
21 Keyaira Smith: No.
22 Brian Davidson: Just drinking water?
23 Keyaira Smith: Mm hmm.
24 Brian Davidson: All right. So you were clearly clear-headed the entire evening?
25 Keyaira Smith: Yep.
26 Brian Davidson: All right.
281 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Keyaira Smith: That's why I was, like, freakin' out to come here, 'cause I was like, if
2 I think, if I recall correctly, I'm the only one who was sober. And I
3 was like freaking out. So I was like, uh.
4 Brian Davidson: Yeah.
5 Keyaira Smith: This, this is messy.
6 Brian Davidson: So, um, so your perception was that pretty much everybody else
7 involved in this incident was intoxicated?
8 Keyaira Smith: Yeah, to say the least. Not, I wouldn't say that they were all, like,
9 belligerently intoxicated, like way over their legal limit. But they
10 definitely had a shot or two, maybe a drink, so.
11 Brian Davidson: Um, and you'd characterize them as intoxicated. For example, uh,
12 YT, had, was he intoxicated?
13 Keyaira Smith: I would say that he maybe had a drink. I don't know where he was
14 coming from prior to, but he wasn't, like, I know what he's like when
15 he drinks, and that wasn't, he was just chillin'. He was very level-
16 headed most of the night. I wouldn't say, I, for him I don't actually
17 know his level of intoxication or if he even was intoxicated, 'cause
18 like I said, I had just met up with him and there he appeared and so I
19 was like, oh, like, hey. And then from there it just went bananas.
20 Brian Davidson: Uh, how 'bout, um, Mr. Tuffa? Do you refer to him as Moe? I know
21 that he's referred Mohamed Tuffa.
22 Keyaira Smith: Yeah, I call him Moe, or Tuffa. Just 'cause everyone calls him
23 something different. So you have to say both.
24 Brian Davidson: Okay. And was he intoxicated?
25 Keyaira Smith: Um, I have no idea. I believe so. I believe he had been drinking. I
26 think he actually, I think him and YT came out of the bar.
27 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
282 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Keyaira Smith: And I think that's how I had seen them. Yeah.
2 Brian Davidson: Okay. And how about Mr. Dean?
3 Keyaira Smith: I don't remember where Patrick came from.
4 Brian Davidson: Well, not so much where he came from.
5 Keyaira Smith: Well like, I don't remember, like I didn't really, I don't think so.
6 Brian Davidson: You don't think he was intoxicated?
7 Keyaira Smith: Not, not to my knowledge. I don't know. I don't, I honestly,
8 genuinely do not know. 'Cause like the other two had came out of the
9 bar, but I don't remember if Patrick had just came out from his
10 apartment or if he came outta the bar with them. But I don't think he
11 came with them.
12 Brian Davidson: Okay. My main questions is, you seem like you thought they were,
13 you said they were intoxicated.
14 Keyaira Smith: Yeah. Patrick, like I said, I genuinely don't know. Like, he seemed
15 level-headed. He seemed pretty – he might have had a drink or two
16 of beer, so, but –
17 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
18 Keyaira Smith: – other than that, that's the most, to my knowledge, of what I can –
19 Brian Davidson: Okay. Now there was two other people kind of involved in this
20 thing, these um, older guys.
21 Keyaira Smith: Mm hmm.
22 Brian Davidson: Which you may know by now is Jason Washington –
23 Keyaira Smith: Jason Washington –
24 Brian Davidson: – and Jeremy Wilkinson.
25 Keyaira Smith: – and Jeremy–
26 Brian Davidson: Um, had you, uh, noticed them any way earlier in the evening?
27 Keyaira Smith: Yes.
283 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: And tell me why.
2 Keyaira Smith: Um, so my friends had came out of the Cheerful Tortoise, and, um,
3 shortly after Jason and his friend had came walking out of the bar,
4 his friend was belligerently drunk. That, that I can assure you. I
5 smelled the liquor on him from a mile away.
6 Brian Davidson: Jeremy Wilkinson?
7 Keyaira Smith: Jeremy was belligerently drunk. He was super hype, like, super
8 hyped up, like super just trying to cause a problem and Jason was
9 tryin' to like, hey, like come on, let's go. So the first time they
10 walked outta the bar, I think they originally walked out to go walk to
11 their car and leave. And only, they walked out of, like, the main door
12 and then crossed the, um, street, and walked down toward, like, if
13 you were going toward the Chevron down, um, gosh, what is that
14 street called? Just –
15 Brian Davidson: Well, there's, uh, 6th is to the, uh, east of the Cheerful Tortoise and
16 Broadway is to the west of the Cheerful Tortoise.
17 Keyaira Smith: Okay. So then it was, like, going, not down Broadway but down 6th,
18 like toward the Chevron. Um, and then right when they had got to –
19 Brian Davidson: Now is this before any altercation had ****?
20 Keyaira Smith: Yes, this is, this is what started the night of altercations. So after they
21 had crossed the street, um, Jeremy had started saying something, um,
22 about the group of guys on the corner. And, um, it was something
23 involving, like, a racial slur or –
24 Brian Davidson: Who were the group of the guys on the corner?
25 Keyaira Smith: Um, YT, Tuffa, um, I don't know if Patrick was there or not. It was
26 mainly YT and Tuffa. Those were the two I remember, 'cause I
27 remember, I specifically remember, um, after Jeremy had gotten all
284 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 hyped up and like tryin' to fight and saying all this stuff to my
2 friends and saying it to the guys, um, uh, Jeremy was, or no, um,
3 Jason was like, "Come on, like I'll just get him outta here. Like, I'm
4 really sorry." Jason apologized. He was like, "I'm really sorry he's
5 being like this." And him and YT actually shook hands.
6 Brian Davidson: Jason and YT?
7 Keyaira Smith: Jason and YT shook hands. And YT's like, "Oh no, it's fine. Like,
8 just get him outta here. Like, he doesn't need to be sayin' that stuff. If
9 he's that drunk, just get him outta here." And they shook hands, and
10 then parted and went on their merry ways. Sorry, I'm really cold.
11 Brian Davidson: Oh, you're cold?
12 Keyaira Smith: Yeah.
13 Brian Davidson: Oh, I apologize.
14 Keyaira Smith: No, no, you're good. Um, so then after that, that happened on, um,
15 the corner. And, like, YT and them had went up over to him and he
16 was like, "Why are you, like, tryin' to address the situation, tryin' to
17 just tell him to leave, get outta here." Nothing, like, no one had, like,
18 swung at anyone or anything like that. Like, it deescalated pretty
19 quickly. And then like I said, YT, they, and Jason shook hands, and
20 then that was that.
21 Brian Davidson: Did you, did you videotape that part?
22 Keyaira Smith: Yes.
23 Brian Davidson: Now, in the videotape that I've seen, it appears that, um, that the
24 group, uh, consisting of YT, and who else in this video, YT and, um,
25 Mr. Tuffa and Mr. Dean maybe, uh, are actually pursuing, um, Mr.
26 Wa, Mr. Washington and Mr. um –
27 Keyaira Smith: Yeah. They had, yeah.
285 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: – Wilkinson and down the street, like, following them and kind of
2 shouting things at them. Is that accurate?
3 Keyaira Smith: Well, no, 'cause they had, uh, they, I wouldn't say that they were
4 following them. But at that point in time, that was before Jason and
5 YT had, like, that's before Jason apologized and all that stuff. So
6 immediately, when YT hear, uh, heard, um, like, when YT and Tuffa
7 heard him saying the racial slurs and all that stuff, YT was like,
8 woah, like, we're not gonna approach them and probably did it in a
9 very aggressive way, because he has a tendency to come on kind of
10 aggressive. Um, but he had, um, approached him, and he was like,
11 what's the, what's the issue? Like, you don't need to be saying stuff
12 like that. Like, you can't be saying that to me, a man, a man of color,
13 like, very pressing the issue, but didn't actually do anything, just
14 trying to tell him, like, hey, just, like, just leave. Like, don't say it
15 again and leave. And then they parted ways, and then um, they had
16 actually came back to the bar. And then, um, I don't know what
17 happened between them going in the bar and then YT and them
18 going in the bar and then when they came out and the entire fight
19 itself started happening. Um, all I know is that something had
20 happened. And Jason and his friend, Jeremy, went out the side door
21 or, like, the back door, because the guys were in the front. Um, YT
22 and Tuffa and them were in the front of Cheerful outside. So Jason
23 and, uh, Jeremy went out the side door or, like, a back door or
24 something like that. And then they started, uh, we, I think I saw
25 them. Oh, yeah. I told them, I was like, hey, guys, like, there's those
26 guys again. And they were coming down from, um, gosh, what is
27 that? I don't know these roads off the top of my head. I don't live out
286 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 here. Um, he was walking down, um, like, past the PSU and, like,
2 um, the Mak's Mini Mart. Like, there's those two little drive-ins right
3 there. They were walking back toward the Cheerful Tortoise. And
4 then they got to the corner right across from Cheerful, and then that's
5 when yelling back and forth and bickering started happening. And
6 then –
7 Brian Davidson: **** across the street is, is the group of, is YT, are they in front of
8 Cheerful Tortoise still?
9 Keyaira Smith: Yeah. They're still in front of Cheerful Tortoise.
10 Brian Davidson: So this is, that street in between the Cheerful Tortoise and Mak's is
11 College, so is that, they’re yelling back and forth –
12 Keyaira Smith: Yeah, okay. So, yeah, College. So he was walking down College
13 back toward Cheerful Tortoise.
14 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
15 Keyaira Smith: Um, and that's when the yelling match across the street started
16 happening. Jeremy, Jason tellin' Jeremy to shut up. Jason trying' to,
17 like, pull him away and tell him, like, like, it's not worth it. Come on.
18 Let's just go. And then YT and them, like, keep, like, yelling, like, I
19 don't even know what they were yellin', 'cause at that point in time,
20 like, I was over it. I was like, I really don't care. Like, I just wanna
21 go to bed. Um, and then I wanna say it was Tuffa. Tuffa took out his
22 phone. And he went over there to go try and talk to Jeremy, just a
23 one-on-one.
24 Brian Davidson: So Tuffa crossed the, crossed College to the other side –
25 Keyaira Smith: Yes.
26 Brian Davidson: – in front of Mak's Market where Mr. Washington and Mr. –
27 Keyaira Smith: Yes.
287 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: – uh, Wilkinson were.
2 Keyaira Smith: Yes. And so at that point in time, as Tuffa, Tuffa's crossing the
3 street, walking over to Jason, I was, like, you guys don't freak out.
4 He has a gun. I said, it's on his right-hand side in a holster, but he
5 does have a gun.
6 Brian Davidson: And who were you talking about?
7 Keyaira Smith: I was talking about Jason, Jason –
8 Brian Davidson: Mr. Washington?
9 Keyaira Smith: Mr. Washington had a gun, which –
10 Brian Davidson: And you saw this from across the street –
11 Keyaira Smith: Oh, yeah.
12 Brian Davidson: – or – yeah.
13 Keyaira Smith: Oh, yeah. I –
14 Brian Davidson: Is that the first time anybody, or to your knowledge had observed he
15 had a firearm –
16 Keyaira Smith: I was the, I was the one who told them about it. They were dumb
17 oblivious, 'cause they were drunk, so, of course, they're not gonna –
18 Brian Davidson: So they were drunk?
19 Keyaira Smith: They were, yeah, intoxicated, yes.
20 Brian Davidson: Okay.
21 Keyaira Smith: I, like I said, I'm not gonna say that they were, like, acting
22 belligerent drunk, had too many to drink and were just tryin' to start
23 a fight. That wasn't the case at all.
24 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
25 Keyaira Smith: I don't know much exactly they were drinking, but they probably did
26 have a drink or two that night, and so they were intoxicated. Yes.
27 Brian Davidson: Okay.
288 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Keyaira Smith: Um, and so I was like, hey, guys, he does have a gun on his hip.
2 Don't freak out about it. I'm gonna go over to Tuffa and try and tell
3 him to come back over here and just drop the situation. So then I
4 walk over to Tuffa, and I'm like, hey, like, come on. Like, it's not
5 worth it. Like, just turn around and come on, come on. He wasn't,
6 wasn't budging, and then I think he took out his phone and started
7 recording. And that –
8 Brian Davidson: What kind of things was Mr. Tuffa saying? What kind of things was
9 Mr. Wilkinson saying back to Mr. Tuffa?
10 Keyaira Smith: Uh, they were just yelling about, I, I think Tuffa had just brought up
11 the fact that he was, like, saying some sort of, like, racial slur or
12 some derogatory term or something like.
13 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
14 Keyaira Smith: And they were just going back and forth. And then I wanna say
15 Tuffa pulls out his camera. And then Jeremy, I think that's what
16 really set Jeremy off was that he was being recorded. So then I
17 wanna say that he hits at Tuffa's phone to, like, get it out of the way.
18 And then they, like, kinda start to, like, wanna brawl. And Jeremy
19 pulls him away, and then at that point in time, YT, Patrick, and all
20 them were over behind Tuffa and me, 'cause, um, they were, like,
21 okay, like, hold on. Like, why is, why is he tryin' to, like, fight
22 everyone right now? Like –
23 Brian Davidson: At some point, do you decide to start recording this again?
24 Keyaira Smith: Yeah, yeah. Um, I started recording, I wanna say I started recording,
25 as I, like, um, I don't remember where the video starts. I know that,
26 uh, the video shows, like, all of us walking as the, they're scuffling.
27 Um, but I don't remember when I had hit start or whatever to just –
289 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: Can I ask you in both –
2 Keyaira Smith: – so much going on
3 Brian Davidson: – both episodes, or the earlier episode in this episode, uh, why did
4 you decide, why were you videotaping ****?
5 Keyaira Smith: Uh, just because we had, um, sorry. Uh, the Cheerful Tortoise has,
6 like, um, called the police on, on me. They've called the cops on me
7 multiple times for absolutely nothing. Like, the cop, the officer even
8 came up and he's like, I don't know why you guys called me. Like,
9 she's not doing anything wrong. So they have a tendency to, like, to
10 make false accusations toward a lot of the customers there. They've
11 actually lost a lot of customers for it. And every since this, uh,
12 incident has happened, because they'll say things and try and 86 YT
13 and like, they, they've been 86ed and kicked out there for so many
14 different things that they haven't even done.
15 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
16 Keyaira Smith: So I wanna say it was a few days, like, like, earlier or somethin' like
17 that, like, I was just talking to Caitlyn, I was like, I was like, I think
18 I'm gonna start recording everything, because it's the only way that
19 we're ever gonna actually know, like, what's going on, 'cause I work
20 at a Hookah lounge, and it gets ridiculous. Cops come every
21 weekend. Like, we're always making police statements. So like, I'm
22 used to things like that happening. It's, like, I always just have my
23 phone ready since, since this and since I started working there just
24 because things happen. People get intoxicated. People start punching
25 people and beating people. So it's just a smart idea to have your
26 phone on you or to be able to videotape it.
290 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: Okay. Um, so, uh, I think you were telling us that, um, that it really
2 seems to set Mr. Wilkinson off when –
3 Keyaira Smith: Yeah.
4 Brian Davidson: – Tuffa started videotaping him.
5 Keyaira Smith: Yes. The, and I think that's what, like, really started, like, put the
6 icing on the cake with him. And that's what kind of started the entire
7 altercation. Um, and then Jason starts pulling Jeremy back, pulling
8 him back, pulling him back, tryin' to pull him away. At this time, I
9 don't know where their car was parked, 'cause they said it was
10 parked one way, and then they came from another way. And so I
11 don't know where they were tryin' to go or what they were tryin' to
12 do, but, um, Ju, Jason was tryin' to pull Jeremy back, pullin' back,
13 pullin' back. And that's how we kind of ended up in that corner, like,
14 over behind the, the side of the Mak's Mini Mart. That's how we
15 ended up over there. And then, um, Tuffa was still super levelheaded
16 at the time when we got pushed back into, um, the corner with him
17 and Jason.
18 Brian Davidson: When you say levelheaded, what do you mean?
19 Keyaira Smith: He was still, um, like, he didn't try and, like, swing on him or
20 anything like that. He, he wasn't, like, s, like, being all hyped up for
21 nothin'. He was just simply recording him, asking him, like, hey,
22 like, why are you doing this? Like, why are you causing a scene?
23 You're the one who came at us with, like, da, da, da, da, da, so, like,
24 talking, um, as he's taking the Snapchat of this guy. And then Jeremy
25 reaches around Jason or, like, gets his arms away from Jason or
26 somethin' like that, and grabs Tuffa's phone and smashes it.
27 Brian Davidson: So at this point, are you up towards the Chipotle then?
291 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Keyaira Smith: Yeah.
2 Brian Davidson: Yeah.
3 Keyaira Smith: We're right in that little, like, where, like, right on the other side of
4 that –
5 Brian Davidson: Oh, you’re lookin at the map-
6 Keyaira Smith: Yeah.
7 Brian Davidson: Okay, great.
8 Keyaira Smith: Yeah.
9 Brian Davidson: Um –
10 Keyaira Smith: Sorry.
11 Brian Davidson: Yeah. Uh actually, I don’t know why that’s even up there. Okay, let
12 me uh, yeah, you, you can just go ahead and finish your testimony.
13 I'm sorry.
14 Keyaira Smith: Uh, no, you're fine. Um, so, yeah. We were, like, back in the little,
15 um, like, between Chipotle and the stairwell for the dormitory or
16 whatever. Yeah, I think those are dorms. Yeah. And he had smashed
17 Tuffa's phone. And then that's when they actually got, like, physical.
18 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. Now, now, prior to this, had, um, there been any other
19 talk or, uh, about the gun, uh, or had Mr. Washington said anything
20 about the gun –
21 Keyaira Smith: Hmm mm.
22 Brian Davidson: – or brandished the gun or threatened anybody with the gun –
23 Keyaira Smith: Hmm mm.
24 Brian Davidson: – at this point?
25 Keyaira Smith: Um, I don't know. I think he might have taken it out of his holster
26 when they were corner, when we were, when College was dividing –
27 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
292 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Keyaira Smith: – YT and Tuffa and, uh, Patrick and me from them. I think he did
2 pull his gun out once. I, I don't, like, I didn't see it, I don't think. And
3 if I did, like, I just being oblivious, 'cause there was so much going
4 on at that time. Um –
5 Brian Davidson: So what makes you think he did pull it out?
6 Keyaira Smith: Uh, like I said, I don't, I'm not 100 percent sure. That's just what
7 everyone has said. I mean, I, I, personally, didn't see it, but there
8 were also multiple other people who said that he did take it out and
9 threaten it.
10 Brian Davidson: Say that –
11 Keyaira Smith: But I don't –
12 Brian Davidson: – at that time or said it subsequent when you guys were talking about
13 like when did –
14 Keyaira Smith: Said it at the, at the time. At the time –
15 Brian Davidson: Who –
16 Keyaira Smith: – when we were giving, like, our statements to the police –
17 Brian Davidson: Uh huh.
18 Keyaira Smith: – that's what they had said, and that's what the police had told me as,
19 like, they're saying that he threatened the gun. Can you confirm or
20 deny this? I was like, I honestly can't.
21 Brian Davidson: You, personally, never saw Mr. Washington pull a gun or threaten
22 the use of the gun prior to the shooting occurring?
23 Keyaira Smith: Mm hmm, I don't, not that, not that I'm aware of, no.
24 Brian Davidson: Okay.
25 Keyaira Smith: No, not, I didn't see it.
26 Brian Davidson: Go it. OKay. Okay, um, so, I'm sorry, I interrupted you.
27 Keyaira Smith: No, you're fine.
293 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: You're, uh, so Mr. Wilkinson's phone has been smashed, and what
2 happens next?
3 Keyaira Smith: Um, Tuffa and Jeremy get into a physical altercation, and, um, they
4 started scuffling by, closer to the, to the Chipotle, and then, um,
5 somehow, Tuffa ends up on the ground against a tree, and Jeremy
6 was on top of him. And then Jason, um, yeah, they were struggling
7 by a tree and then Jason comes up, and I think at this point in time,
8 someone had fallen onto Jason, and that's what caused him to fall
9 and for his gun to hit the ground.
10 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. And did you see the gun on the ground?
11 Keyaira Smith: No, I just heard it. I heard the metal clicking against the, the ground.
12 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
13 Keyaira Smith: And so, um, no sooner did he hit the ground and all that happened, in
14 the video, you hear me say gun, and it wasn't for them on, it wasn't
15 for Jason, it was for, if you watch it really closely, the officer,
16 whoever he was, I never caught his name, he disappeared before I
17 even could get his name, whoever it was had already, was already
18 ready to pull out his gun and just shoot him before any of that even
19 happened. Or, like, just, he was just ready to go for it. He didn't go
20 for mace, he didn't go for a taser, he didn't go for anything else other
21 than just straight for lethal force. Um, and so, –
22 Brian Davidson: Well, I'm sorry, I, I'm confused about what what you just said. Um,
23 but when did you first observe the policemen there?
24 Keyaira Smith: Oh, when they were watching everyone fight? When we, so we were
25 over in the corner by Chipotle, and, um, two officers came up, but
26 they didn't try and stop the fight.
27 Brian Davidson: What did they do?
294 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Keyaira Smith: They literally just stood there.
2 Brian Davidson: And for how long?
3 Keyaira Smith: Um, maybe like, long enough for the scuffle to get from the corner to
4 the tree, so maybe like 45 seconds, a minute, and they still didn't
5 jump in. And, like, mind you, keep in mind, if I'm standing like,
6 where I was videotaping, it travels from one side, in front of the
7 cops, and the cops are both, both the PSU police, are in my video. So
8 you see them standing there just watching.
9 Brian Davidson: Okay, so you think the police were standing there watching for
10 45 seconds?
11 Keyaira Smith: Oh yeah, they definitely were. There was, there was no way any, I
12 did not see one police officer jump in.
13 Brian Davidson: Okay, I'm gonna go ahead and show you the body-worn camera
14 video.
15 Keyaira Smith: It might not have been 45 seconds, but they had just stood there.
16 Brian Davidson: Off the first officer who arrived on scene, and why don't you tell me
17 if this comports with your recollection of what occurred. Did the
18 police announce themselves verbally when they arrived?
19 Keyaira Smith: Yeah, I did not, I did not even hear the PSU security get there until.
20 Other Speaker: Hey, police. Hey.
21 Other Speaker: **** –
22 Other Speaker: Back up, back up.
23 Other Speaker: **** –
24 Other Speaker: He pulled a gun on us. He pulled a gun. He pulled a gun.
25 Other Speaker: come on –
26 Other Speaker: Hey, –
27 Other Speaker: ****.
295 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Other Speaker: Hey. Hey. Hey, all you guys.
2 Other Speaker: Hey, hey, hey.
3 Other Speaker: Hey, sir, sir, you gotta back up.
4 Other Speaker: **** get the fuck back. **** get back –
5 Other Speaker: He's got a gun.
6 Other Speaker: **** –
7 Other Speaker: Stop, Brian Davidson: So having watched that video, do you, what
8 do you think about your testimony you just gave us that they stood
9 there for 45 seconds and didn't do anything?
10 Keyaira Smith: He still, he still stood there. I mean, they, they, he tried, he came up
11 and he tried to try and very gently just pull him back, but like I said,
12 I work at Lux PDX, so the cops get called there every weekend. It's
13 nothing, –
14 Brian Davidson: I'm sorry, where do you work?
15 Keyaira Smith: – Lux PDX. It's a Hookah and dance lounge off of Powell.
16 Brian Davidson: 'Kay.
17 Keyaira Smith: So the cops come there every weekend.
18 Brian Davidson: Well I'm, I'm gonna have to stop you. I'm sorry, I'm not gonna ask
19 you about where you work and what you do, but I, your testimony
20 was that, um, the officers showed up, they didn't announce
21 themselves and then the two of them stood for 45 seconds and didn't
22 do anything.
23 Keyaira Smith: I, I, –
24 Brian Davidson: Okay, just lemme finish my question. That was your testimony
25 right? We've just watched the body-worn camera video of the first
26 officer on scene. They announced themselves when they arrived,
27 they certainly didn't stand there for 45 seconds as you said, so how
296 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 would you account for the difference between what you just told us
2 and what we observe in the video?
3 Keyaira Smith: Uh, I personally did not hear them announce themselves when they
4 came into the squabble. Keep in mind, there's at least six people in
5 this fight that's going on, and I, I didn't hear them say that. They
6 didn't try and stop the fight. I didn't, –
7 Brian Davidson: You didn't hear them, the officer yelling at them to stop fighting and
8 then yelling repeatedly to stop fighting, and then put his hands on
9 some people, try to pull them out of the fray?
10 Keyaira Smith: – he put his hands on Jason, and that's, that's all that that body cam
11 shows.
12 Brian Davidson: Okay.
13 Keyaira Smith: There's an, I, I mean, I heard him. Like, I'm not sorry, I'm not tryin'
14 to be rude, I heard him say –
15 Brian Davidson: No.
16 Keyaira Smith: – stop, stop, but in that kind of a situation, that doesn't, it's not gonna
17 work.
18 Brian Davidson: Well that, that's not what I'm asking.
19 Keyaira Smith: Um, yeah, I know, but I'm just saying.
20 Brian Davidson: I'm not asking your opinion on, –
21 Keyaira Smith: Like, I, I personally didn't hear it, so.
22 Brian Davidson: –Right, so, but again, your testim, I'm not asking for your opinion
23 about what will and will not work. What I'm ah, you're here as a fact
24 witness, –
25 Keyaira Smith: Yes.
297 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: – right? And your testimony was that you observed the two officers
2 standing for 45 seconds not doing anything, right? That was your
3 testimony, right? And that's clearly not accurate, would you agree?
4 Keyaira Smith: Okay. Yes.
5 Brian Davidson: Is that, that true, –
6 Keyaira Smith: Yes.
7 Brian Davidson: – that statement was inaccurate?
8 Keyaira Smith: They, yes.
9 Brian Davidson: Okay.
10 Keyaira Smith: It was not 45 seconds, but I, I personally did not hear them announce
11 themselves.
12 Brian Davidson: Right.
13 Keyaira Smith: So that was just from my side. I didn't hear 'em announce
14 themselves, –
15 Brian Davidson: Okay.
16 Keyaira Smith: – nor did I see him try and stop the fight at all.
17 Brian Davidson: But he clearly did.
18 Keyaira Smith: No, yeah. In the do, in his footage, that's what I can see.
19 Brian Davidson: Well that's what happened, right? This is video of what occurred.
20 Keyaira Smith: Yes.
21 Brian Davidson: I mean, you'll agree this is, this is a, –
22 Keyaira Smith: Yeah, –
23 Brian Davidson: – it's a video of what happened, right?
24 Keyaira Smith: – that's a video of what occurred, correct.
25 Brian Davidson: Okay.
26 Keyaira Smith: Yes.
298 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: So your testimony earlier, that they stood, that both of them stood for
2 45 seconds and didn't do anything, that, that's not true?
3 Keyaira Smith: Okay.
4 Brian Davidson: Correct?
5 Keyaira Smith: Yes, correct.
6 Brian Davidson: 'Kay. So, um, uh, so anyways, so you were talking about, and you
7 heard the gun hit the ground.
8 Keyaira Smith: Mm hmm.
9 Brian Davidson: And just kind of carry us forward from there.
10 Keyaira Smith: I heard, um, him fall and like his gun hit the ground, and then, um, I
11 didn't see a gu, I didn't see his gun out of his holster, I didn't see it on
12 the ground. I was a, enough distance away that I didn't really, I
13 couldn't see. There was too much going on, everything was moving
14 too quickly. Um, I didn't see a gun on the ground or anything like
15 that, but I don't actually know from there what happened, because at
16 that point in time, after he had fallen, he went to like stand up, and in
17 my video, it, like, he looks like he went to go grab something, which
18 could've possibly been his gun, I don't know. And then he likes stops
19 midway through and turns around and his hands are like this, and
20 then, –
21 Brian Davidson: Mr., you're talking about Mr. Washington?
22 Keyaira Smith: – Mr. Washington, yes.
23 Brian Davidson: OKay.
24 Keyaira Smith: So then his hands are like this, that's when, I think it was like the
25 last, like, 2 or 3 seconds of my video or somethin' like that, I was,
26 like, gun, and then the officer pulled his gun out and it ends with the
27 first shot.
299 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: Well, but, yeah but, do you, were you, I guess, I'm, I'm not asking
2 you to testify about what you saw in your own video.
3 Keyaira Smith: Mm hmm.
4 Brian Davidson: I mean, do you, 'cause we all, we have your video.
5 Keyaira Smith: That, that's what I, –
6 Brian Davidson: We’ve seen it.
7 Keyaira Smith: – that's all I'm telling you though, is like, –
8 Brian Davidson: Okay.
9 Keyaira Smith: – I didn't see, like, other than what I saw from the video that I
10 watched back,
11 Brian Davidson: Ah hu.
12 Keyaira Smith: – and then what I saw during all of this as I was tryin' to take it. I
13 didn't see, –
14 Brian Davidson: Did you see the actual shooting?
15 Keyaira Smith: – yeah.
16 Brian Davidson: You did?
17 Keyaira Smith: Mm hmm.
18 Brian Davidson: Okay, um, well what did you, tell us what you saw.
19 Keyaira Smith: Um, I saw, um, well after the officer had said, or after I had said gun,
20 then, um, he emptied out I don't know exactly how many shots. I
21 think after like the first three, or like two, I like, turned my back and
22 got, and like ducked behind, um, the little like concrete wall of the
23 Mak's Mini Mart. But I know it was more than four.
24 Brian Davidson: Okay.
25 Keyaira Smith: More, more than four bullets were sh, more than.
26 Brian Davidson: Did you, now, did you see both officers shooting, one officer
27 shooting?
300 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Keyaira Smith: Uh, I did not. I saw one officer I think.
2 Brian Davidson: Okay.
3 Keyaira Smith: I believe I only saw one off, at least I only saw one pull his gun out
4 of his holster, and that's the one that I saw, that I have on the video.
5 Brian Davidson: Okay, and, uh, were you watching what Mr. Washington was doing
6 as the officer was pulling his gun from his holster?
7 Keyaira Smith: Yeah, like I said, Jason, um, when he stood up from the ground, it
8 looked like he went to go reach for something, and then I don't know
9 if he didn't, like, if he stopped halfway through or if he grabbed it. I
10 don't know, I didn't, I couldn't see what was in his hand. My video
11 was too blurry, and like I said, I personally, like, did not see anything
12 on the ground.
13 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
14 Keyaira Smith: So he like lunged halfway and then went to go, and then his back
15 was to my camera and like the officers. And then his hands are like
16 this, and then no sooner did he like stand up and do like this and get
17 in position to either turn around or do whatever like, it looked like,
18 almost as if he was surrendering. I don't know how to explain it. His
19 hands were up enough to look like a surrender, but his hands, it was
20 just like a, like a, uh, with his back to me. And then, –
21 Brian Davidson: Were you, were you actually watching, were you watching him
22 when this –
23 Keyaira Smith: – yes.
24 Brian Davidson: – was going on? Or were you watching your phone?
25 Keyaira Smith: No, I was, I was like holding it, like, here's my phone, –
26 Brian Davidson: Uh hu..
27 Keyaira Smith: – and then I'm watching it over my phone.
301 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: And, and did you see anything in either one of his hands?
2 Keyaira Smith: No, I couldn't. I mean, I'm legally blind as it is, –
3 Brian Davidson: Oh.
4 Keyaira Smith: – so.
5 Brian Davidson: Okay, well, that's good to know.
6 Keyaira Smith: My, my eyesight, it was dark, my eyesight's poor. I mean, I had my
7 glasses on, so, I mean, I do have 20/20 with my glasses on, but it was
8 dark. I didn't see anything in his hand, I didn't see anything on the
9 ground. Um, –
10 Brian Davidson: Okay, do you remember the officer, –
11 Keyaira Smith: – but there were bodies in my way as well. There were the officers in
12 my way –
13 Brian Davidson: – Oh, okay.
14 Keyaira Smith: – and all that stuff.
15 Brian Davidson: All right.
16 Keyaira Smith: So it wasn't like I had like a clear shot of him and a clear shot of the
17 gun, I, there was too much movement and too much going on.
18 Brian Davidson: Okay. Um, do you remember the officers repeatedly yelling to him
19 to drop the gun?
20 Keyaira Smith: Nn, no, but now that you say that, something does kinda come back
21 to me, but I don't remember that at all. I don't remember hearing him
22 say it.
23 Brian Davidson: Okay, do you remember the, them yelling at him that if he doesn't
24 drop the gun they will shoot him?
25 Keyaira Smith: hm mm, I don't remember that.
302 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: Okay. All right, um, and, and what happened in the imme,
2 immediate aftermath of the shooting here? Where, where did you
3 go? Did you stay, leave? What'd you do?
4 Keyaira Smith: Uh, I, I was freaking out 'cause, uh, I had heard somebody go off and
5 I look around the corner and I thought that they had act, that they had
6 shot Tuffa, so, like, I was like mid breakdown, like, screaming,
7 crying, like, and then, um, the cops came and pushed us all back to
8 like, um, Broadway, like that corner of Mak's or whatever.
9 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
10 Keyaira Smith: And then we were all sitting there, and I think at this time they had, I
11 think they had Tuffa restrained, I'm not sure.
12 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm, okay. All right, um, questions from the Grand Jury?
13 Other Speaker: Yeah, I've got a few of 'em, um, one, could you help me understand
14 where you were in relation to the, to the scene here? You said you
15 were behind the officers?
16 Brian Davidson: And, and if you wanna, I don’t know if it’s helpful, but if you wanna
17 get up here and draw kind of –
18 Keyaira Smith: Okay.
19 Brian Davidson: – a picture of this here.
20 Keyaira Smith: I'll draw this.
21 Brian Davidson: I’ll get rid of this here. You guys don't need this anymore, right?
22 Other Speaker: No, no.
23 Keyaira Smith: So this is the street, here's the Tortoise, here's Mak's. Cross walk.
24 Um, so this is like a driveway to Mak's that goes behind it, and then
25 here is the dormitory, like, area, and I guess it's actually, that's fine.
26 Um, so they were in this little, there's like, um, gates on the stairs to
27 the, I think it's like a gate with like a door you have to open, 'cause
303 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 you have to have like a key to get in and out of the building. Um, but
2 they were scuffling like right here, and I was, actually, that's way-
3 too-close together. Sorry. Art was not my favorite subject. Um, I'm
4 over here, by like the little driveway, so, like, in the driveway is me,
5 and then they're over here by the stairs, and then here's the Chipotle,
6 and they’re over here. And here's the, like a big pillar-type thing
7 right here, and they're all over here scuffling. So I'm taking the video
8 at, um, like, when they're in the corner over here, and then all I had,
9 like, all my body did was basically pivot to when here's like a little
10 tree. Here's where they were fighting, here're the two officers, and
11 I'm still, like I'm, there's enough people. I think there's like an
12 officer, the two officers, um, and then the three on the ground
13 scuffling. So in that time, there was so much ground, that I couldn't
14 see between them rolling on the ground. Between him hitting the
15 ground **** officer, like, I couldn't see, like, off the ground or
16 anything like that, so I didn't see him drop a gun, anything like that. I
17 just heard it hit the ground.
18 Other Speaker: Um, can you remind me when exactly in this scenario were you were
19 aware that there was an officer there?
20 Keyaira Smith: When, um, so I think I was like taking a video of them, and I, like,
21 went to turn and like say something to someone, and it was an
22 officer, and they were both just like there, and I just kept my video
23 camera on them until they moved to the tree, and then you actually
24 see the officers in my video. And then that's when, like, in the video,
25 that's when they came to be, but I think I noticed them, like, I think I
26 looked over, 'cause I heard 'em come up, like the sirens. I saw them
27 come up, but I didn't know whereabouts. I knew they weren't in the
304 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 scuffle, 'cause I would've seen them and it would've been on my
2 video. And so I think I just had to, like, I glanced over, like, went to
3 go move or something, and I think I, like, saw one of them.
4 Brian Davidson: Any additional questions for Ms. Smith?
5 Other Speaker: Yeah, actually, so you mentioned sirens, were, they were running
6 sirens?
7 Keyaira Smith: Nn, just the flash is what I meant.
8 Other Speaker: Flash, like, okay, –
9 Keyaira Smith: Like the flashing of the, –
10 Other Speaker: – **** lights, okay.
11 Brian Davidson: Are we, we're talkin' about the car, the police car?
12 Other Speaker: Police car. That's what ****.
13 Keyaira Smith: – yeah.
14 Brian Davidson: Your perception was that the lights were runningon the police car?
15 Keyaira Smith: I think, I think the li, I think the lights were flashing.
16 Brian Davidson: Okay. Okay.
17 Keyaira Smith: Like I said, there was, there was obviously so much going on, like, I,
18 I have such high anxiety, and there was so much going on already
19 that I was, like, already just a mess and I was, like, I don't even
20 know.
21 Other Speaker: Um, and I have another question, so the, you know, you had recalled
22 that you didn't hear them announce themselves, and, you know, we
23 saw in the video that they did.
24 Keyaira Smith: Yes.
25 Other Speaker: What, what was your perception of the noise that was going on at
26 that time like behind you****?
305 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Keyaira Smith: I, I just heard, like, yelling, screaming and yelling and then, like,
2 contacts, firsts making contact with whomever they were thrown at
3 and whoever was throwing them. So, I mean, that's really all, like,
4 my focus a lot at the time, 'cause I was just sitting there watching all
5 of this happen and I was, like, I don't know what to do. Like, usually
6 I would jump in and break something up like that, but also, he has a
7 gun, security is now here, I don't wanna get pepper sprayed was my
8 first thought. So, 'cause that's what I, that's what I thought he was
9 gonna do, was just pull out pepper spray really quick and just stop it,
10 and I was, like, I do not get pepper sprayed, so I stayed back, and
11 then he was shot.
12 Brian Davidson: 'Kay, anybody else have questions for Ms. Smith? 'Kay, we'll go off
13 the record. All right, we are back on the record and the state's, uh,
14 next witness is Dr. Rebecca Millius. If you would, uh, raise your
15 right hand Doctor and be sworn.
16 Other Speaker: Do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you are about to
17 give in the matter pending before this Grand Jury shall be the truth,
18 the whole truth and nothing but the truth?
19 Rebecca Millius: I do.
20 Brian Davidson: Okay, go ahead and have a seat and if you could state and spell your
21 full name for us please.
22 Rebecca Millius: Rebecca, R-E-B-E-C-C-A Millius, M-I-L-L-I-U-S.
23 Brian Davidson: And can you tell the Grand Jury how you're employed?
24 Rebecca Millius: I'm employed as a deputy state medical examiner for the State of
25 Oregon.
26 Brian Davidson: And how long have you been employed in that capacity?
27 Rebecca Millius: Since September 28th of 2017.
306 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: All right, and, uh, prior to working here, um, do you have any prior
2 experience as a medical examiner?
3 Rebecca Millius: No.
4 Brian Davidson: This is your first job as a medical examiner?
5 Rebecca Millius: Yes.
6 Brian Davidson: Okay, can you tell us a little bit about your, um, your training and
7 background in medicine and in, um, pathology in particular?
8 Rebecca Millius: Sure, I, uh, went to medical school at Oregon Health Sciences
9 University. I graduated in 2001. I completed a residency, medicine
10 other than pathology. I practiced in that specialty for about 8 years
11 prior to returning to retrain in anatomic and clinical pathology, uh,
12 in, uh, June of 2012, or July of 2012. I graduated from that program
13 in June of 2016. I completed a forensic pathology, uh, fellowship
14 year King County Medical Examiner's office in Seattle, Washington,
15 and that ran from July of 2016 'til July, or June of, uh, 2017, and I
16 was hired on in September 2017 at the Oregon State Medical
17 Examiner's office.
18 Brian Davidson: Okay. Can you tell the Grand Jury a little bit about what forensic
19 pathology is and what a forensic pathologist does?
20 Rebecca Millius: Uh, forensic pathology, uh, involves determining, uh, cause and
21 manner of death, so, uh, examining a, uh, decedent's remains, uh,
22 body and determining, uh, what caused the person to die.
23 Brian Davidson: Okay, and how many, um, forensic, um, pathological examinations
24 do you think you've conducted since you moved your emphasis to
25 that area of medicine?
307 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Rebecca Millius: I completed just over 200 examinations through my fellowship here,
2 and I believe that I am close to 200 since, a afull examinations, since
3 I've been employed, so roughly 400.
4 Brian Davidson: All right, so I think you know why we're here. We're here to discuss,
5 um, the death of, uh, Jason E. Washington.
6 Rebecca Millius: Mm hmm.
7 Brian Davidson: Um, that occurred back on June 29th of the, this year. My
8 understanding is that you were the forensic pathologist medical
9 examiner assigned to perform the autopsy on, um, Mr. Washington.
10 Is that correct?
11 Rebecca Millius: Yes.
12 Brian Davidson: And in fact you composed a report uh, that details your findings
13 about that examination?
14 Rebecca Millius: Yes.
15 Brian Davidson: All right, would you please just, uh, tell the Grand Jury, um, what
16 your findings were in relation to, uh, Mr. Washington's injuries and
17 his cause of death?
18 Rebecca Millius: Do you mind if I grab a copy of my report?
19 Brian Davidson: No, please do.
20 Rebecca Millius: Thanks. I do recall that I certified the cause of death as multiple
21 gunshot wounds to the torso and the manner as homicide.
22 Brian Davidson: And if we could justpause for a moment, um, the manner is homicide
23 and uh, in your line of work, what is the, what is the meaning of that,
24 when you say it's a homicide?
25 Rebecca Millius: Homicide means that somebody dies, uh, died as a result of the
26 actions of another. So in the example of, uh, a gunshot wound, uh,
27 that caused someone's death, if the gun was fired by another person,
308 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 then it is a homicide. If it was fired by that self, same person, it
2 would be certified suicide.
3 Brian Davidson: Hmm, okay, um, and that's not a, a criminal finding, for example?
4 Rebecca Millius: No.
5 Brian Davidson: It just means what you said, that it's the one person –
6 Rebecca Millius: Right.
7 Brian Davidson: – causing the death of another person?
8 Rebecca Millius: Mm hmm.
9 Brian Davidson: Okay, all right, uh, 'preciate that. If you wouldn't mind walking us
10 through your report and telling us what your findings were?
11 Rebecca Millius: So there was a graze gunshot wound to the left side of the head.
12 There was a gunshot wound to the right side of the chest that entered
13 into the right chest and, uh, did not, the bullet did not exit but was,
14 uh, recovered in the left thoracic cavity, had passed through some of
15 the internal organs on its way through the body. Um, there's a
16 gunshot wound of the kind of more-lateral right side of the chest,
17 um, and that, uh, passed through internal organs and structures and
18 ended up in the small bowel. We recovered a bullet there. Uh, a
19 gunshot wound of the right lower abdomen that entered in the right
20 lower abdomen, traveled through the wall of the stomach and ended
21 up lodged, or excuse me, ended up exiting rather, through the, uh,
22 the lateral aspect of the proximal left thigh, just below the hip.
23 There's a gunshot wound in the right mid back that tunneled through
24 the soft tissues and ended up, uh, in the deep subcutaneous tissues of
25 the base of the right neck. There was a gunshot wound to the right
26 lower back, which did not exit the body. It tunneled through the
27 subcutaneous tissue of the back and we, uh, recovered from the deep
309 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 subcutaneous tissue of the right back. There is a graze gunshot
2 wound of the right lower back. There was a gunshot wound to the
3 medial left thigh high up. Uh, the, there were two wounds indicating
4 an entrance and an exit, but they were atypical in nature, meaning
5 the, uh, pa, the bullet passing through an intermediate target of I
6 don't know what beyond clothing, uh, caused both those wounds to
7 be atypical, and it was impossible for me to determine which was the
8 entrance and which was the exit. Um, and there was a gunshot
9 wound in the proximal medial right thigh, and that appeared to enter
10 in the proximal medial right thigh and, uh, traveled through the
11 subcutaneous tissues and lodged, uh, behind the right knee. Uh, there
12 were some blunt-force injuries identified on the extremities, which
13 consisted of cutaneous abrasions and lacerations, and I also make
14 note of the medical intervention, medical care piece, that, uh, uh, still
15 present on the body at the time of examination.
16 Brian Davidson: Uh, things that, uh, the first responders –
17 Rebecca Millius: Right.
18 Brian Davidson: – maybe had done to try and resuscitate him?
19 Rebecca Millius: Mm hmm.
20 Brian Davidson: Okay. You, uh, indicated, um, blunt-force injuries to the extremities
21 –
22 Rebecca Millius: Mm hmm.
23 Brian Davidson: – cutaneous abrasions and lacerations. Um, we know from what
24 we've seen Mr., um, Washington was, kind of, standing and maybe
25 moving when he was shot he then collapsed and struck the
26 pavement.
27 Rebecca Millius: Mm hmm.
310 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: Um, is that a possible cause for those injuries?
2 Rebecca Millius: That is a possible cause for those injuries.
3 Brian Davidson: Um, and were you able to determine which one of any of these, or of
4 actually the proximal cause of his death? Is there a way to determine
5 that or, um, among these several gun shot wounds or-
6 Rebecca Millius: Either of the wounds to his chest or torso would have been, could
7 have been fatal. Um, uh, you know, could we say which one is more
8 fatal than the other? Um, hard to say. Uh, the gunshot wound that,
9 that, uh, of the right, right chest, entered the right chest and was
10 recovered in the left thoracic cavity, uh, and I recall it passed
11 through his heart and part of his lung, is that right? Yeah, went
12 through the right upper and right middle lung. Went through the
13 heart, through the right and left atrium, and the intra-atrial septum
14 and, uh, grazed the inside of the left intra left chest cavity. The other,
15 um, one that entered through the lateral right chest, uh, periph,
16 fractures from ribs, that was the other one. Went through the, uh,
17 also went through the right lung, uh, went through the, uh, right side
18 of the liver and the left side of the liver and, uh, lacerated the
19 stomach, and then lacerated and nearly completely transected the
20 aorta, just above the level of the diaphragm and the liver. So, um, the
21 wound to the heart caused by the first gunshot wound that I just
22 discussed and the laceration/near transection of the aorta, uh, would
23 have caused a massive amount of hemorrhage, so either of those
24 wound's could've been fatal.
25 Brian Davidson: Hmm.
26 Rebecca Millius: Um,
311 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 one might surmise that a gunshot wound to the heart could cause a fatal arrhythmia, which might
2 cause, uh, death more quickly, but, um, –
3 Brian Davidson: Either would have been fatal.
4 Rebecca Millius: – I've seen cases where people have survived with a gunshot wound
5 through the heart and a bullet in the heart and got to surgery and
6 survived, but either by themselves could've been fatal so they're,
7 that's why I determined the cause to be multiple, or those two, versus
8 one or the other.
9 Brian Davidson: Thank you.
10 Rebecca Millius: Yeah.
11 Brian Davidson: Um, as part of your general examination, your forensic findings, my
12 understanding is that blood and urine is drawn from the subject and
13 sent for analysis, is that correct?
14 Rebecca Millius: That's correct.
15 Brian Davidson: And are you aware of what the, um, toxicological results were as far
16 as the analysis of Mr. Washington's blood and urine?
17 Rebecca Millius: Now, I didn't bring a copy of his toxicology but I remember that it
18 was greater than .2. Thank you.
19 Brian Davidson: For example, were any controlled substances found in his system?
20 Rebecca Millius: No.
21 Brian Davidson: 'Kay, so no marijuana or any other illicit drugs?
22 Rebecca Millius: No.
23 Brian Davidson: Okay, what about the result as far as the, um, finding of blood
24 alcohol content?
25 Rebecca Millius: So ethanol of 0.242, this, you know, it's a significant level of
26 alcohol. I don't know what Mr. Washington's proclivities were, but
312 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 we, or I'm sure familiar with its 0.8 puts us above the legal limit to
2 operate a motor vehicle in this state, so.
3 Brian Davidson: So that, his blood alcohol was three times that, is that right?
4 Rebecca Millius: Yes.
5 Brian Davidson: Okay, um, the, um, are you familiar with the, um, this issue
6 sometimes that comes up with, um, blood alcohol contents in
7 postmortem examinations, um, sometimes, um, being, uh, maybe
8 inaccurate as far as depicting blood alcohol content at the time of
9 death as a result of this fermentation process?
10 Rebecca Millius: Mm, uh, so I, my understanding, that, uh, that usually pertains to
11 bodies that are, uh, decomposed to some degree. Um, we can find,
12 you know, small, or fairly low levels of alcohol, well below the legal
13 limit, um, in decomposed bodies. Just alcohols that're produced,
14 alcohol, it's, ethanol's pretty ****the fermentation p-, you know, a
15 byproduct of bacteria in the body, that continue to be very active
16 postmortem, um, and I, the, I, you know, that wouldn't be a
17 phenomenon that I would expect to play in this case, 'cause he was
18 not decomposed.
19 Brian Davidson: Okay. So you do your post fairly shortly after he was deceased is
20 that right?
21 Rebecca Millius: Um, my post mortem examination, I'm sorry I didn't review the exact
22 time that the death was called but I examined him at 10:50 a.m. on
23 Friday June 29th.
24 Brian Davidson: So it would have been later that same morning.
25 Rebecca Millius: Right.
26 Brian Davidson: From his death
27 Rebecca Millius: Yes.
313 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: All right.
2 Rebecca Millius: And let's see, I commented ****, I'm sure that I did. Yeah, so rigor
3 mortis was, had seemed to have fully set in the jaw, muscles and had
4 not yet set in in the extremities. So, you know, this seemed to be
5 consistent with, within roughly 8 hours after death.
6 Brian Davidson: Death. Okay. Thank you. Uh, I believe that was all the questions I
7 have for Dr. Millius. Anybody else have questions for Dr. Millius?
8 Other Speaker: Um, sorry, I'm not very good with medical jargon –
9 Rebecca Millius: Sure.
10 Other Speaker: But, um, would you say that most of the wounds to his chest were,
11 um, at, entered the body from the front?
12 Rebecca Millius: So the two wounds in the chest entered the body from the kind of
13 front and side, uh, the, let's see, I don't know if you have pictures.
14 But yes, right chest and right lateral chest, so more front, um, and
15 then he had wounds in the back but did not enter the internal body
16 cavity, rather just the deep soft tissues.
17 Brian Davidson: Okay. Any additional questions for Dr. Millius?
18 Other Speaker: Okay.
19 Other Speaker: Uh, you also mentioned there was a wound through that went
20 through the side or into, all the way across the body.
21 Rebecca Millius: Right. Entered the right abdomen, kind of in the anterior abdominal
22 wall, went through the soft tissues of the low abdomen, just right to
23 the stomach wall, across the hip here and then exited out kind of the
24 side of the, approximal side of the thighs below the hip joint.
25 Other Speaker: Okay, and the knee wound was, again, to the front or to the side –
26 Rebecca Millius: No, that was from through the thigh, kind of the medial thigh and
27 went down to the soft tissues and then just stayed in soft tissue.
314 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Other Speaker: Down.
2 Rebecca Millius: Right. And medial being towards the middle and when we say
3 lateral, we're meaning towards the outside and when I'm describing
4 these things I'm referring to the body in standard, if I may stand up,
5 anatomic position which is this position here. Okay. So when I say,
6 you know trajectory or range or path I am talking about where the
7 bullet entered the body and how it traveled where we discovered it
8 based on just the body itself in this position in space. Okay. That
9 doesn't indicate where anybody was standing or how they were
10 moving. It's a very dynamic process so, um, but that, one in
11 particular you're asking for came through the medial, kind of high
12 medial thigh and then ended up here behind the knee.
13 Brian Davidson: Additional questions for Dr. Millius?
14 Other Speaker: Um, just out of curiosity you mentioned that ****, uh, that when
15 somebody's deceased that stabilized normally ****–
16 Rebecca Millius: No, it's not stable. Um, there is some, um, there is some post
17 mortem, there can be some port mortem increased but again usually
18 that doesn't set in until somebody is at least kind of moderately
19 advanced decompositioned. So very early mild decomposition, if we
20 do a blood alcohol test on somebody who hadn't been drinking at all
21 we won't find any. But if you get a body that's moderately
22 decomposed to advanced decomposed you may find traces. You
23 don't always, but you may.
24 Other Speaker: Well my question is more from like if I had been drinking at 2:00 in
25 the morning –
26 Rebecca Millius: Mm hmm.
27 Other Speaker: And then stopped and you've investigated me at 10:00 a.m. –
315 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Rebecca Millius: Mm hmm.
2 Other Speaker: I would probably wouldn't register as much as I had at that time
3 ****.
4 Rebecca Millius: No, yes, you should,
5 Other Speaker: Okay.
6 Rebecca Millius: You should register when, at, from the time that you die, you register
7 the same unless you're markedly or moderately, so markedly
8 decomposed. Your liver, when you die stops doing its, its metabolic
9 work in metabolizing or processing the alcohol. So once that alcohol
10 processing in the liver stops the, the levels don't go down.
11 Other Speaker: Okay.
12 Rebecca Millius: Does that answer the question? Okay.
13 Brian Davidson: Anybody else? Okay, uh, Dr. Millius, uh, we'll go off the record. Dr.
14 Millius you are done. Thank you very much for coming in. All right
15 we're back on the record and our next and final witness for this
16 morning is Mr. Patrick Dean, Patrick Dean if you would raise your
17 right hand to be sworn.
18 Other Speaker: Do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you are about to
19 give in the matter pending before this Grand Jury shall be the truth,
20 the whole truth and nothing but the truth?
21 Patrick Dean: Yeah.
22 Brian Davidson: Go ahead and have a seat. If you wouldn't mind, um, stating and
23 spelling your full name for us please.
24 Patrick Dean: Patrick Alan Dean, P-A-T-R-I-C-K, A-L-A-N, D-E-AN.
25 Brian Davidson: Thanks for coming in this morning Mr. Dean. Um, could you tell the
26 Grand Jury how old you are?
27 Patrick Dean: 23.
316 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: And are you currently employed or do you go to school?
2 Patrick Dean: I am employed uh.
3 Brian Davidson: And what do you do for a living?
4 Patrick Dean: Construction like remodeling houses mainly.
5 Brian Davidson: Okay. Uh, and did you grow up here locally?
6 Patrick Dean: For the most part.
7 Brian Davidson: And did you go to a local high school?
8 Patrick Dean: In Hillsboro.
9 Brian Davidson: Okay. Hillsboro High School?
10 Patrick Dean: Sorry, Century High School.
11 Brian Davidson: Century High School, and did you, do you have any college?
12 Patrick Dean: No.
13 Brian Davidson: All right, and where do you currently reside?
14 Patrick Dean: In northeast Portland.
15 Brian Davidson: All right.
16 Patrick Dean: We just moved to the northeast.
17 Brian Davidson: Okay. Um, I think you know why we're here. We're here to discuss
18 this, uh, incident that occurred in the very early hours of, uh,
19 June 29th of this year over by the Cheerful Tortoise, the shooting –
20 Patrick Dean: Mm hmm.
21 Brian Davidson: Mr. Washington. I, by um, PSU officers. Um, it's my understanding
22 it’s, you arrived down at the Cheerful Tortoise at some point earlier
23 probably on the 28th. Um, how did you come to be down there?
24 Patrick Dean: I was just down there with some friends having a couple of drinks
25 and then, uh, one of my friends got a little too, drank a little too
26 much so I brought him back upstairs and I came back down and –
27 Brian Davidson: Upstairs, when you say upstairs where–
317 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Patrick Dean: Upstairs to where we were living in the apartment.
2 Brian Davidson: Oh, were you living nearby at the time?
3 Patrick Dean: I was just staying at my girlfriend's apartment.
4 Brian Davidson: And where was that at?
5 Patrick Dean: Right across the street at University Point.
6 Brian Davidson: Okay. Uh, and, um, were you there with other friends other than the
7 one you had ended up having to take upstairs?
8 Patrick Dean: Uh, just people that lived around or were out there that night, yeah.
9 One of them was in here earlier.
10 Brian Davidson: Oh, uh, who would that have been?
11 Patrick Dean: Zach.
12 Brian Davidson: Oh Zach YT?
13 Patrick Dean: Yeah, YT.
14 Brian Davidson: Zach Walker, do you know him as Zach or YT?
15 Patrick Dean: I know him as YT, I just didn't you guys would know him as YT.
16 Brian Davidson: Okay. Um, and how about, um, Mohamed Tuffa?
17 Patrick Dean: Yeah.
18 Brian Davidson: Friend of yours?
19 Patrick Dean: Yeah.
20 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. And how long have you known those guys?
21 Patrick Dean: Um, I've known them for probably 2 years, just from being around
22 that area, just my girlfriend went to college in the city and lived
23 there, bec, for like student living and I just see him around, hang out
24 and say what's up.
25 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm, okay. Um, and did you intend to meet them there that day
26 or did you just ran into them at the Cheerful Tortoise?
318 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Patrick Dean: Uh, I mean I probably saw him earlier that day and we were
2 probably like, oh, I'll see you later tonight but not anything like
3 planned-
4 Brian Davidson: Formal-
5 Patrick Dean:` It kinda just ended up always going, happening like that.
6 Brian Davidson: All right, and at what time do you think arrived at the Cheerful
7 Tortoise that day?
8 Patrick Dean: Uh, that day, I mean I was, I don't even, I don't know, I might have
9 gotten off work early and then I was just in and outta there, probably
10 all day. Not necessarily drinking, just like interacting with people or
11 playing pool. Uh, I wasn't drinking that much. Well actually I started
12 drinking at night but –
13 Brian Davidson: You started what?
14 Patrick Dean: Uh, drinking, just like beer, it was dollar beers.
15 Brian Davidson: Okay. Um, how much do you think you had to drink that day?
16 Patrick Dean: Probably like four beers.
17 Brian Davidson: All right, and any hard liquor?
18 Patrick Dean: No, not that I remember.
19 Brian Davidson: All right. Um, had you smoked any marijuana or taken any other
20 drugs?
21 Patrick Dean: I probably smoked marijuana.
22 Brian Davidson: Okay.
23 Patrick Dean: Well I definitely smoked marijuana.
24 Brian Davidson: All right, uh, and like more than once or just one time, was it –
25 Patrick Dean: I was smokin' all day, in and out all day.
26 Brian Davidson: All right. Um, do you think, you know, in your own estimation, uh,
27 do you feel like you were impaired or intoxicated at all?
319 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Patrick Dean: Um –
2 Brian Davidson: At the time this episode kind of exploded–
3 Patrick Dean: When it started goin' on?
4 Brian Davidson: Yeah.
5 Patrick Dean: Um, maybe. I wasn't necessarily completely sober.
6 Brian Davidson: Okay. So, uh, why don't you tell us, um, had you encountered, you
7 know the two other kind of people on the other side of this conflict,
8 Mr. Wash, Jason Washington, Mr. Jeremy Wilkinson, had, do you,
9 have, did you ever met them before this night?
10 Patrick Dean: No.
11 Brian Davidson: Did you talk to them at all that night before things got heated?
12 Patrick Dean: I didn't.
13 Brian Davidson: No. So you didn't interact with them at all.
14 Patrick Dean: Not until things got heated.
15 Brian Davidson: All right, Why don’t you walk us through your recollection of how
16 and why things first got heated with your group –
17 Patrick Dean: Well when I got down there I kinda just heard, got down there and
18 saw things goin' on with them so I walked over there and then I
19 heard that something was said racist, something racist was said or
20 thrown around. I just, I don't know who said it but I, I heard that and
21 then they kinda got into it and, uh, Tuffa ended up getting into with
22 Jeremy and then Jeremy ended up getting knocked out and then –
23 Brian Davidson: Well you're skipping over lost time here. Um, and do you have a
24 recollection of what occurred that night?
25 Patrick Dean: That's what, that's like the part that I came down is right when,
26 because I went back up and then I came back down –
27 Brian Davidson: Uh huh.
320 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Patrick Dean: And that's right when they started coming, everything started going
2 down and like they were just kinda yelling back and forth and, or
3 everybody was yelling back and forth and –
4 Brian Davidson: Just inside the bar or outside the bar?
5 Patrick Dean: No, this is outside. This is right before, like probably 30 seconds
6 before everything.
7 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
8 Patrick Dean: Before like the shooting and so, uh, they all started, everybody
9 started yelling back and forth and Jason was trying to pull back
10 Jeremy, I think is his name. Jeremy was just running around trying to
11 do whatever. I don't know and then he was just pulled and then, uh,
12 Jason I think at one point pulled out, he had his gun on him and he
13 just basically let us all know that he had his gun on him and then he
14 didn't like point it at anybody. He pulled it out, I think he pulled it
15 out but he didn't point it at anybody. I think he just pointed it in the
16 air.
17 Brian Davidson: And is this earlier before the, before the police arrived, before Mr.
18 Tuffa and Mr.–
19 Patrick Dean: This is like, uh, Tuffa was there, um, this was like probably right
20 before the police arrived. I don't know if I saw them right when they
21 got there or heard them because it was so much going on –
22 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
23 Patrick Dean: And, you know, I wasn't particularly so, a 100 percent sober and, uh,
24 so, I mean everything's a little foggy too because of, like I said,
25 everything happened so fast and so, um, they started fighting.
26 Brian Davidson: In, in what so-
321 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Patrick Dean: Oh, oh so, I, I don't remember the police, I didn't hear the police yell
2 to stop the fight. That doesn't mean that that didn't happen. What,
3 again, like I said, uh, there was a lot going on, all very fast and so,
4 um, anyways Jason ended up getting knocked on the ground or
5 falling on the ground and at this point his gun was back in his hip
6 and I didn't see if it fell off or if it just hit the ground. But then he
7 turned and well it looked like he was gonna run away and then that's
8 when they just shot him.
9 Brian Davidson: Okay. Let's, let's back up and kind of unpack some of this stuff. Um,
10 so, uh, a dispute develops between I guess Mr. Walker, YT and Mr.
11 Tuffa. Do you refer to him as Moe. I know some people you refer to
12 –
13 Patrick Dean: I call him Tuffa.
14 Brian Davidson: Tuffa, Mr. Tuffa and YT between, um, those two and Mr. Wilkinson,
15 Jeremy. Um, were you present when that happened?
16 Patrick Dean: Not initially.
17 Brian Davidson: Okay. But you arrived when it was ongoing?
18 Patrick Dean: Yeah.
19 Brian Davidson: All right, and there's an episode where I, I can't remember if you're
20 in the video or not. Ms. Keyaira Smith was videotaping that group of
21 folks following Mr. Walker, I'm sorry Mr. Washington and Mr.
22 Wilkinson kind of down 6th. Uh, were you in that group?
23 Patrick Dean: Yeah.
24 Brian Davidson: Okay, um, and pursuing them down the street. Uh, and it looks like
25 Mr. Washington and Mr. uh, Wilkinson go back into the Cheerful
26 Tortoise. You were there for that?
322 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Patrick Dean: No, I was, if they went, they never went back into the Cheerful
2 Tortoise. I wasn't there for that, if that happened.
3 Brian Davidson: Okay. But you were there the, the, you were there for one episode
4 then?
5 Patrick Dean: I was there for right when, right like, I would say a minute before the
6 shooting.
7 Brian Davidson: Okay. That was your only involvement.
8 Patrick Dean: Yeah.
9 Brian Davidson: So my understanding, my understanding is at some point maybe your
10 group of folks is out in front of the Cheerful Tortoise and the other
11 group, Mr. Wa, Mr. Washington and Mr. Wilkinson are across,
12 across College in front of Mak's Market. Is that accurate?
13 Patrick Dean: That, when, that's when they, they crossed paths. Is that what you're
14 saying?
15 Brian Davidson: Yeah, that's when kind of things, the end result kind of started there.
16 Patrick Dean: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that, that's where it started. That's where I saw it
17 start –
18 Brian Davidson: Okay.
19 Patrick Dean: Is right there.
20 Brian Davidson: And, and you said you did or did not see, uh, when did you first
21 realize that Mr. Washington had a gun?
22 Patrick Dean: Um, as they were trying to pull them a, as he was trying to stop
23 Jeremy. So they were outside, it was out front of the, of Mak's across
24 the street from Cheerful.
25 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
26 Patrick Dean; And he was pulling him away and everybody was pushing forward
27 for whatever reason. I mean it was just and then, uh, he pulled out
323 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 the gun and said, uh, wolf. I don't know if he said anything but I'm
2 sure he said, oh I have a gun, everybody just chill out basically.
3 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
4 Patrick Dean: But –
5 Brian Davidson: Did he pull the gun out? Did he threaten anybody with the gun?
6 Patrick Dean: He didn't threaten anybody with the gun.
7 Brian Davidson: Okay. Um, but you were aware that he had a gun.
8 Patrick Dean: Yeah.
9 Brian Davidson: Okay. Uh, and this thing moves north up the block or I'm sorry, less
10 up the block towards Broadway right? Towards the Chipotle? All
11 right. And, uh, what happens when you get kind of by the Chipotle?
12 Patrick Dean: Um, then they start fighting.
13 Brian Davidson: Who's they?
14 Patrick Dean: Tuffa and Jeremy start fighting. I think he grabbed his phone and
15 slammed it and then I hit Jeremy and then –
16 Brian Davidson: So when you say you hit Jeremy, what, what did you do exactly?
17 Patrick Dean: I just, I kicked Jeremy.
18 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. Why did you kick Jeremy?
19 Patrick Dean: At the point I, I was trying to stop things. It seemed like he was the
20 issue. I don't know why I did it. Honestly I shouldn't have done it
21 and I fully regret it but I mean you can't do anything, I can't do
22 anything, I can't do anything about it now.
23 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
24 Patrick Dean: Um, I thought I would, it would stop the issue.
25 Brian Davidson: Okay. Um, at what point did you realize the police were there?
26 Patrick Dean: Um, I guess right before I did it. I, that's, like I don't know why I
27 even hit him.
324 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: All right. So you, before you kicked Mr. Wilkinson in the head, you,
2 you realized the police were there.
3 Patrick Dean: Yeah.
4 Brian Davidson: All right, and do you remember saying –
5 Patrick Dean: I just didn't think. I didn't, I guess I just didn't process, I don't know.
6 Brian Davidson: All right. And do you remember saying anything to the police when
7 they arrived?
8 Patrick Dean: I might have said something, I'm, like I said it was all blurry and I
9 would mean, I wasn't fully sober.
10 Brian Davidson: Would you, do you recall saying something or not?
11 Patrick Dean: I don't remember.
12 Brian Davidson: Okay. Do you remember pointing repeatedly to Mr. Washington and
13 telling the police that he had threatened you with a gun?
14 Patrick Dean: Um, I don't remember saying that. That doesn't mean it couldn't have
15 happened.
16 Brian Davidson: What's that?
17 Patrick Dean: I don't remember saying that.
18 Brian Davidson: Okay. I’m going to play for you the body-worn camera video –
19 Patrick Dean: Uh uh.
20 Brian Davidson: With audio of Mr., of Officer Dewey.
21 Patrick Dean: I wasn't, I don't, I wasn't necessarily, I wasn't saying he was
22 threatening us. I don't know. I don't think that exactly remember –
23 Other Speaker: Hey, police. Hey.
24 Other Speaker: **** –
25 Other Speaker: Back up, back up.
26 Other Speaker: **** –
27 Other Speaker: He pulled a gun on us. He pulled a gun. He pulled a gun.
325 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Other Speaker: come on –
2 Other Speaker: Hey, –
3 Brian Davidson: So, you've watched it. That's you, right? And what is, you –
4 Patrick Dean: I said he pulled a gun on us. Which I shoulda said he pulled a gun
5 out, or he had a gun, he has a gun more like I don't know.
6 Regardless, he didn't have the gun out right there. He didn't – I don't
7 know.
8 Brian Davidson: Well, that's not my question.
9 Patrick Dean: I was just kind've –
10 Brian Davidson: My question is to clarify because you testified that he didn't pull a
11 gun on you, but when the officers arrived and as, and the first thing
12 you did was walk up to the officer –
13 Patrick Dean: Yeah.
14 Brian Davidson: – and point repeatedly to Mr. Washington –
15 Patrick Dean: That he pulled a gun.
16 Brian Davidson: – and repeatedly say that he pulled a gun on you.
17 Patrick Dean: 'Kay, so I guess what I should've said – well what I should've said –
18 is that he had a gun on him and that he pulled the gun out. I –
19 Brian Davidson: Did he pull the gun out?
20 Patrick Dean: Yes, he pulled the gun out and put it in the air.
21 Brian Davidson: He did?
22 Patrick Dean: He pulled out - yeah, that's what I was saying earlier.
23 Brian Davidson: I didn't, I didn't get that from what you were sayin'. Wha, what
24 happened exactly? Because I, I'm a little confused.
25 Patrick Dean: Basically he, when I walked out or when all this was going, right
26 before all this was going on when he was pulling his friend away, I
27 said that he grabbed his gun and s, or he could've told us that he, he
326 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 had the gun. I think he was saying he had the gun. And then he
2 grabbed it, and he pointed it up is what I was saying. Because you
3 asked if he pointed it anywhere. I said he was, he pointed it up in the
4 air and let it, to kind've let us know to just back away, which I didn't
5 take that in that way at this point.
6 Brian Davidson: You didn't take what in what way at what point?
7 Patrick Dean: I didn't take him pointing the g-, I didn't take him kinda just telling
8 us to leave us, leave it alone. To kinda just back off and like instead
9 of just antagonizing it, I guess. I –
10 Brian Davidson: So it's your testimony now that sometime prior to what we just
11 observed, uh, during the kinda confrontation between the two
12 groups, Mr. Washington pulled the gun out of his pocket and pointed
13 it in the air in an attempt to get you all to back away?
14 Patrick Dean: Essentially. That was before the cops were there.
15 Brian Davidson: Sure.
16 Patrick Dean: Yeah.
17 Brian Davidson: Of course, yeah. So that, so what you said to the officers at the scene
18 was true?
19 Patrick Dean: I mean he didn't, I said that – okay, on this video it says that I said
20 that he was pointing the gun at us or – but he wasn't pointing the gun
21 at us, and I don't know why I said he was pointing the gun at us.
22 Brian Davidson: But he did pull the gun out and point it in the air in an attempt to get
23 you to back away, or? Is that right?
24 Patrick Dean: I, I, I guess that's what he did. To back u-, to get us, or I guess that's
25 what he was meaning to do is to get us to back away. That's what he
26 did. I'm assuming that that, those were his intentions because he
327 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 didn't do, go on any forth you put anymore, he put it back on his hip
2 and –
3 Brian Davidson: Okay. Um, so when the officers arrived, you, do you remember them
4 announcing themselves as police?
5 Patrick Dean: Um, I, I don't remember hearing them say that they were here. I
6 remember walk, like seeing them. I don't remember hearing them.
7 There was so much going on.
8 Brian Davidson: Okay.
9 Patrick Dean: Like –
10 Brian Davidson: But it seems apparent from the video, you instantaneously
11 recognized 'em and perceived them as police officers, correct?
12 Patrick Dean: Yeah.
13 Brian Davidson: Okay. Um, so then you indicated that you kicked Mr. Wilkinson in
14 the head. Um, and then kinda walk us through what happened at that
15 point.
16 Patrick Dean: Then Jason fell down trying to pull, trying to break him, them up.
17 Jason fell down, and I don't know if his gun fell off his hip or if he
18 went to, or if it stayed on his hip, or if he went to grab it or what, I
19 don't, I wasn't looking directly at that. And then he was turned the
20 other direction away from the cop, and he started to run.
21 Brian Davidson: Hold, hold on one second. Oh geeze, great. Did they order lunch?
22 Other Speaker: Um, from yesterday.
23 Brian Davidson: Oh.
24 Other Speaker: ****
25 Brian Davidson: Great. Were you guys expecting lunch?
26 Other Speaker: ****
27 Brian Davidson: Oh, okay, well are we just powering through the lunch hour then?
328 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Other Speaker: **** just keep going:
2 Brian Davidson: Oh, okay. Can I just put this here for now? We’re almost done. Um,
3 I’m sorry Mr. Dean. Um, you heard the gun, you heard the gun or
4 you saw the gun fall out? I’m sorry I interrupted.
5 Patrick Dean: I don't know if it fell out. Or, I heard, I, I don't remember if I
6 necessarily heard it. I heard it in the video. You can hear it in the
7 video that Keyaira took. Uh, but I don't know if that was it just
8 hitting the ground or if that was it falling off of his hip or what. I do
9 know that he then turned – I don't know if he went to grab it before
10 he ran away, but he was running away from the officer. He didn't
11 point anything at the officer or anything like that, but.
12 Brian Davidson: Were you watching him the entire time?
13 Patrick Dean: No. I mean –
14 Brian Davidson: How would you know, how would you know if –
15 Patrick Dean: – it was so fast. In the video you can see –
16 Brian Davidson: Well I'm not – here's the deal – I'm not asking you to tell us what's in
17 the video, 'cause we've seen the video right. I don't need you or any
18 witness to tell us what's in the video. I want you to tell us what you
19 remember and you perceived. Do you remember ever seeing this
20 stuff?
21 Patrick Dean: I mean I remember him – a lot of my memories are from the video.
22 Brian Davidson: Well I don't want you to testify because, again, we can, we watched
23 the video.
24 Patrick Dean: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
25 Brian Davidson: We don't need your testimony to tell us what the video is. We can
26 watch it. So do you, I mean –
329 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Patrick Dean: I mean at this point I've watched the video and seen the video and
2 the different videos so many times that that's kinda what has helped
3 my memory.
4 Brian Davidson: Okay.
5 Patrick Dean: If that makes sense.
6 Brian Davidson: But, again, if you –
7 Patrick Dean: It was a very shocking thing. I mean I ha, I, I've been going through
8 a lot, so I could, I kinda was in shock after this happened 'cause I had
9 other very like significant things happen. And so l like I didn't
10 necessarily remember all of what happened that night because I just,
11 I just, uh, just sent me into shock.
12 Brian Davidson: Okay. So, and, and its fine to use, uh, like reports or written accounts
13 to refresh your recollection, for example. As long as you are actually
14 testifying from your own memory of the event. Ya know, on the
15 other hand, if you feel like you're just telling us what you watched on
16 the video, then that, that we don't need. So do you feel like you have
17 an independent recollection of what occurred?
18 Patrick Dean: Um, like I said, I've, I mean to a point.
19 Brian Davidson: Okay. Um, so if, do you recall the officers yelling repeatedly to Mr.
20 Washington to not pick the gun up?
21 Patrick Dean: No.
22 Brian Davidson: Okay. Do you recall the officer repeatedly telling, giving commands
23 to Mr. Washington to include dropping the gun?
24 Patrick Dean: No.
25 Brian Davidson: Do you recall the officers ordering or saying to Mr. Washington if
26 you don't drop the gun, we'll shoot you?
27 Patrick Dean: No.
330 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: Okay. And were you looking at Mr. Washington at the time that the
2 shots were fired?
3 Patrick Dean: I wasn't looking at him directly. I don't remember where I was
4 looking.
5 Brian Davidson: Because earlier you testified that he had nothing in his hands at the
6 time the shots were fired.
7 Patrick Dean: Well I said that he, I didn't know if he had his, if his gun hit the
8 ground or if he – I still, I don't know if he had anything in his hands.
9 I don't know if his gun was in his hand or not.
10 Brian Davidson: At the time the shots were fired?
11 Patrick Dean: Yeah.
12 Brian Davidson: Okay. And you don't know that because you don't recall or you
13 weren't looking at him?
14 Patrick Dean: Because I wasn't looking at him.
15 Brian Davidson: Okay. All right. Okay, what happened immediately after the
16 shooting?
17 Patrick Dean: Um, uh, kinda just went crazy. Well at first it was very silent, and
18 then everybody realized what happened. And, I don't know, I kinda
19 just went all over, I just lost it, and I think everybody just lost it.
20 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. Okay. All right. Um, questions from the Grand Jury?
21 Other Speaker: Mm mm.
22 Other Speaker: I just have one. Do you recall seeing the, uh, Jason point gun in the
23 air, do you recall like him **** of where that might have happened?
24 Patrick Dean: As he – so, um, as, uh, before everybody has like physically touched
25 or interacted, it was bef, it was as he's still trying to pull Jeremy
26 away from the situation, he just pulls it out and points it and points it
27 in the air just kinda as like showing it. Not necessarily even pointing
331 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 it. Just kinda showing it. But he's holding it up so it's not being
2 pointed at anybody. He was kinda just like.
3 Brian Davidson: Does he say anything when he's doing it?
4 Patrick Dean: I don't remember what he said. I'm, I think he might've said I have a
5 gun. I don't know exactly what he said, so I'm not gonna say that I
6 know what he said because I don't remember.
7 Other Speaker: Um, do you know of anyone else that would've seen that happen?
8 Patrick Dean: I mean anybody else that had, everybody else, any other witnesses.
9 Brian Davidson: YT?
10 Patrick Dean: I don't know if he, where he was looking or what or anything.
11 Brian Davidson: Um, Tuffa?
12 Patrick Dean: I –
13 Brian Davidson: I mean, they were all right there. This was in front of Mak's Market,
14 right, that this is happening?
15 Patrick Dean: – uh, yeah. I don't know. I don't know what they were, I can't speak
16 the, uh, uh, on their behalf, so I don't know.
17 Brian Davidson: But they were there when it happened, obviously, correct?
18 Patrick Dean: Yeah, they were probably there. I mean – well they were there. They
19 mighta just been like not nece, they mighta been watching. They
20 might not been paying attention to him at that point. They mighta
21 been payin' attention to Jeremy, which I don't know exactly.
22 Brian Davidson: Okay. Additional questions for Mr. Dean? Nope? Okay. We'll go off
23 the record. All right, we are back on the record and the, uh, first
24 witness for this afternoon is Sergeant, uh, Joseph Schilling. Sergeant
25 Schilling are you ready? If you can go ahead and just remain
26 standing for one moment, they will, uh, raise your right hand, they'll
27 swear ya in.
332 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Other Speaker: Do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to
2 give in the matter pending before this Grand Jury shall be the truth,
3 the whole truth and nothing but the truth?
4 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: I do.
5 Brian Davidson: Okay. Go ahead and have a seat. And if you wouldn't mind stating
6 and spelling your full name for us please.
7 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: Uh, Joseph A. Schilling, S-C-H-I-L-L-I-N-G.
8 Brian Davidson: And can you tell us how you're currently employed?
9 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: I'm a sergeant with the police at Portland State University.
10 Brian Davidson: And how long have you been employed with the Portland State
11 University police force?
12 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: Uh, since 2011. I'll, I'll clarify. We became the police in 2015. I was
13 hired there in 2011 to implement that procedure, so.
14 Brian Davidson: Okay. Um, and let's, uh, let's go even farther back. How long have
15 you been involved in, uh, career in policing in general?
16 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: Um, I started January of 1985 with the Portland Police Bureau, and I
17 retired from there.
18 Brian Davidson: Okay. Can you kinda walk us through, uh, your experience, uh,
19 different assignments, what kinda things you've worked on as a
20 police officer starting with Portland?
21 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: Um, I've worked, uh, all the precincts, uh, in Portland. Um, and, um,
22 I did, uh, you can tell from my shorts, I ride bikes up at PSU, but I
23 did that program for the City of Portland as well. Um, and then I
24 went to the training division in like 1999 with the, with the City of
25 Portland, with Portland. And, uh, I worked up there, did the field
26 training program. Um, I was the coordinator for the field training
27 program. And, of course, was involved in all the other training,
333 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 firearms and defensive tactics and those kind've things up there as
2 well.
3 Brian Davidson: What is the field training program?
4 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: Uh, the field training program is, uh, when officers are hired, uh,
5 they go to DPSST. They receive their basic training down at DPSST,
6 um, and then they come back to, uh – all the agencies have this,
7 some variation of this – um, and, uh, they come back to the agency,
8 they're assigned to a coach and then they work with a coach for a
9 prescribed amount of time depending upon the agency.
10 Brian Davidson: And the coach would be a more experienced police officer?
11 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: More experienced police officer. Someone who's trained to actually
12 teach other cops how to be cops. Um, and then there's, uh, uh, there's
13 some things that they hafta do not only for DPTSST to re, to get that
14 certification, but also for the, uh, the agency they work for. And the
15 coaches ensure that that occurs, uh, prior to the, their, uh, probation,
16 uh, uh, expiring and then becoming a certified officer with the state.
17 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. All right. Uh, and, uh, what rank did you achieve with
18 Portland Police Bureau?
19 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: Uh, I was just a police officer with, uh, Portland.
20 Brian Davidson: Okay. And what year did you, uh, retire?
21 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: 2, uh, 2010.
22 Brian Davidson: And, uh, it sounds like you went to work more or less immediately
23 for Portland State?
24 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: Yeah, I did a little stint down at the Park Bureau, uh, for a little
25 while as a park ranger, and then I went up there. Yes, sir.
334 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: Okay. And you said you were hired, uh, in part I guess to facilitate
2 the transition from an unsworn, unarmed security force at Portland
3 State to an armed sworn police force. Is that right?
4 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: Uh, yes, sir. To, uh, capitalize on my experience in, in the training
5 division, um, and what I did with Portland.
6 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
7 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: Uh, as far as field training and that kinda thing. Yes, sir.
8 Brian Davidson: Okay. All right. And, uh, how many police officers are with the
9 Portland State University police force?
10 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: Uh, we have, uh, nine police officers, a detective, uh, and two
11 sergeants and then a chief of police, uh, that are our sworn officers.
12 Brian Davidson: All right. Uh, one of the uh, we’ve heard a little bit about it already,
13 but one of the unique features of the Portland State University police
14 force as opposed of for example Portland Police Bureau, we can see
15 this on your uniform is that, uh, PSU, uh, has implemented a body-
16 worn camera program.
17 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: Yes, sir.
18 Brian Davidson: Is that right? Um, can you walk us through, uh, kind of how that was
19 implemented, why it was implemented and kind've a little bit about
20 that, uh program?
21 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: Um, certainly the accountability associated with, uh, cameras is, ya
22 know, really the reason that, that cameras are in use today. Um, uh,
23 as long as the policy is adhered to and as long as they're used, uh, as
24 they're intended, um, they give, uh, uh, a good idea of what's goin'
25 on on the street. Uh, it increases the accountability of the agency, the
26 cops involved, and it also gives a real accurate portrayal of an event,
27 um, so that cops can write a good report, so that DAs can review
335 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 that, uh, information and see, uh, a, a little bit better what actually
2 went on, uh, uh, at the scene. So Portland, or I'm sorry Portland
3 State, um, when, uh, we decided to implement uh, and go to a police
4 agency, uh, that was certainly one of the things that we considered
5 right away. And so the day that we started the, the police agency,
6 um, we had cameras onboard as well.
7 Brian Davidson: All right. So basically from the implementation and start of, of the
8 police force at PSU, you've had body-worn cameras?
9 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: Yes, sir.
10 Brian Davidson: Uh, and, uh, as far as you're aware, are there any law enforcement
11 organizations in the Multnomah, or I'm sorry, in the Portland metro
12 area that have, uh, the same program?
13 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: Um, no sir.
14 Brian Davidson: All right. Just Portland State?
15 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: Yes, sir.
16 Brian Davidson: All right. And, but in your opinion is it trending that direction that
17 most police forces will–
18 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: I can't imagine that a, my personal opinion, I can't imagine that from
19 a training standpoint that an agency's won't have cameras all the
20 time. I mean they have to.
21 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. Okay. Um, now, uh, in conjunction with the deployment
22 of these cameras, and maybe you can tell us a little bit about
23 physically what are they, how do they operate. I see, again, I see one
24 on your uniform. Tell us about that.
25 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: Um, uh, sure. The cameras are pretty simple. Um, they attach to, uh,
26 the uniforms. They can be put in different places. There's also a
27 couple different variations. That, this happens to come from, um,
336 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Axon. It's just the manufacturer, but there's, there's other iterations
2 out there that agencies use. Some of them even have a camera that
3 would adhere to a, like a, an eyeglass or a, a ballcap visor or
4 something like that. But we don't particularly use those, although we
5 did try those. Um, anyway, the camera's pretty simple to operate. It's
6 got an on/off switch. Um, it was off. When it comes on, it'll do its
7 little boot up thing just like any other device. And then it has a little
8 green, has a little green light on the top, um, that shows me that I can
9 look down and see that it's, that's it's on. And then to activate the
10 camera, um, I press twice. Then the camera, uh, switches to a red,
11 which says that it's recording. So it's recording now. Um, and then
12 when I want to, uh, stop that recording, I just hold on it, uh, that
13 same button, it gives an audible and it also vibrates, and then it goes
14 back to green, um, to show, um. I will of course delete that, uh, that I
15 just recorded. Um, the cameras are, are pretty rugged. Um, and you
16 can tell they don't come off very easy. So in an event of a scuffle or
17 something like that, you're running around, the camera stays on. Um,
18 our policy, uh, about it for Portland State is, uh, that we activate the
19 camera at the beginning of any, uh, uh, conversation, uh, or
20 encounter uh, with a citizen, uh, or at the start of a call, whichever is
21 the most applicable. So sometimes you get a police radio call, uh,
22 and then you might have a drive time of a minute or so. So you
23 wouldn't necessarily activate that. Most of the time when we get out
24 of the car, um, we activate the camera. Um, and then the camera
25 stays activated until the end of the encounter or the end of the event,
26 um, uh, so that it's a, a complete recording. And then, um, when you
27 get done with a shift, you dock this, uh, in, in a, in a, in a dock that's
337 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 on the wall there. That uploads the information to Axon. Uh, the
2 company, uh, hosts all the, uh, uh, the videos. It goes to them. Um,
3 uh, I can then log into an interface that allows me to look at the
4 videos. Um, I can, uh, send those videos to, uh, the DA's office, uh,
5 so that they can, uh, look at those. I can download 'em and put 'em
6 on a disk and do some other things with 'em. Uh, I can't alter 'em. I
7 can't delete 'em, uh, with the exception of really short ones. Um, and
8 even then, every cre, keystroke that I, uh, that I do when I log into
9 the system, um, it's recorded. Uh, and it's kept for posterity. So that
10 little recording that I did and that demonstration, wh, when I go and
11 dock that and later on tonight when I look at that video and I go to
12 delete that, uh, it'll allow me to delete it, but it's gonna ask me, uh,
13 why I deleted it, and I would say a Grand Jury demonstration. And
14 even though that video is deleted, all the keystrokes associated with
15 it, uh, including my explanation of why it was deleted is, is saved
16 forever in the archive. Um, and in the videos, the state has, uh, a
17 requirement that we retain, uh, videos for certain amount of time.
18 Um, and then our agency has a requirement that we have videos
19 retained for a certain amount of time. Um, that's in the system. I put
20 that in the system. Um, so the video goes and it stays with Axon, um,
21 until the time that it's s'posed to be deleted. I actually get an email. I
22 get emails every day, uh, about what videos are gonna be deleted
23 that day from Axon that their expiration, uh, for their uh, uh,
24 retainment has, uh, expired and then uh, they're outta the system.
25 Even though those videos are outta the system and they're no longer
26 available as a video, all the other, uh, pertinent information about
27 that, all the meta data about that video is still retained by Axon. So,
338 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 uh, 10 years from now you could go back into the system and say, ya
2 know, Schilling was here at a Grand Jury, and he deleted this little
3 piece of video that he did for a demonstration, uh, and it would, it
4 would still show all those keystrokes.
5 Brian Davidson: Hm. Okay.
6 Brian Davidson: Uh, it's our understanding that, um, in this video, the, uh, body-worn
7 camera also records audio. Um, but there is a slight I guess
8 difference in the way those two things are recorded and-.
9 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: That is correct.
10 Brian Davidson: And maybe you can explain to it, my understanding is that actually is
11 kinda sort've always recording? Um.
12 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: Right.
13 Brian Davidson: Explain how this works.
14 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: Um, so if it was on, if, if I turn it on and it's on, it is literally always
15 recording. Um, it doesn't take any of the audio. So right now, it's
16 recording but it's not, it's not really recording. Um, it's got the, the
17 audio is muted, and when I punch the button to start the recording, it
18 starts audio and video recording at that point but then goes back in
19 its buffer, the 30 seconds prior to, um, and then keeps that recording
20 and attaches it then to the video that's there. So it literally is always
21 recording, um, but only that 30-second buffer that keeps getting
22 pushed around.
23 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
24 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: Um, until you push the button.
25 Brian Davidson: And the 30 seconds just, uh, just video, uh, or video and audio?
26 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: Um, there's a, you can make it longer than 30 seconds, or you can
27 make it, um, uh, you can make it audio and video.
339 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
2 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: Or you can make it just video. So it's, uh, it is our choice, uh, to
3 make it 30 seconds, um, and no audio.
4 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
5 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: And, uh, I can tell you the reasoning behind that. Uh, that there are
6 uh, times when information, um, that is prior to us turning the
7 camera on, uh, could be confidential. Um, like for instance, ya know,
8 a cop could be sittin', uh, with a telephone call, uh, talking to another
9 person or a witness or a victim in something and then get a radio call
10 and so end that conversation, get up, walk out of the room and punch
11 the button to start the call, and that prior stuff would be, uh,
12 recorded. It's also the same thing for the 30-second video. Um, so
13 that if they're sittin' in front of a LEDS terminal or something like
14 that, then we don't have to worry about the fact that they recorded,
15 uh, confidential information off the LEDS terminal, uh, at the start of
16 a video of something else.
17 Brian Davidson: Okay. Uh, thank you for that. Uh, does anyone have questions about
18 that part of it? No. Uh, I also wanted to talk to you about, um, officer
19 training in general. Um, my understanding is that some larger police
20 organizations like Portland Police Bureau you mentioned, uh, like an
21 entire training division.
22 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: Mm hmm.
23 Brian Davidson: Right? How many police officers are in PPB just generally speaking,
24 do you know?
25 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: Over 900.
26 Brian Davidson: Okay.
27 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: Maybe just short of a thousand.
340 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: So may be larger than your current organization?
2 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: Yeah.
3 Brian Davidson: They have an entire division as you mentioned.
4 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: Right.
5 Brian Davidson: **** training. In smaller departments like yours, yours currently, is
6 that also the case?
7 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: No. Usually you have, um, uh, maybe a supervisor, uh, and then a
8 couple other cops that do like double duty. So, for us, um, I'm in
9 charge of training. Uh, I'm in charge of some other things as well.
10 Uh, but I still work a shift. So, uh, and then I have, uh, a cop that's a
11 defensive tactics instructor. Um, and a firearms instructor, and those
12 kinda things that also do that. In the Police Bureau, you know, you'd
13 have a, maybe half a dozen firearms instructors that do nothin' but
14 firearms. They don't go out and push a patrol car around or do
15 anything else. Um, but we hafta do double duty.
16 Brian Davidson: Because you're a smaller organization?
17 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: And, and most agencies in the state are like that. Yes, sir.
18 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. Okay. Um, and I ask that as a prelude we're gonna discuss
19 some of your PSU's use of deadly force policy. Um, but and also
20 some training aspects. So it's my understanding that as far as use of
21 deadly force is concerned, um, although PSU has a, obviously a
22 policy, a written policy, um, you rely on the training that the officers
23 get at the Oregon Police Academy as far as their instruction on use
24 of deadly force and deadly force encounter uh, training.
25 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: That's correct. That's where they get it first. Yes.
26 Brian Davidson: Okay. Um, but as I mentioned, you do have a deadly, use of deadly
27 force policy at PSU.
341 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: Yes, sir.
2 Brian Davidson: All right. And my understanding is that's codified in, uh, your Policy
3 No. 300.4. Is that right?
4 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: Yes.
5 Brian Davidson: And, uh, I've got a copy of that here. I'll hand it to you. Uh, you
6 familiar with this policy?
7 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: I sure am, yes.
8 Brian Davidson: Okay. And can you just read for us what is, uh, PSU's, uh, police
9 force's policy on use of deadly force by officers?
10 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: Um, so 300.4, uh, says an officer may use deadly force to protect
11 him, himself, or herself or others from what he or she reasonab,
12 reasonably believes would be an imminent threat, uh, of death or
13 serious bodily injury. That's the, the real basics of it right there.
14 Brian Davidson: Okay. Um, now you, um, have seen the body-worn camera video,
15 um, that was recorded by, um, Officers, uh, Dewey and Officer
16 McKenzie, is that right?
17 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: Yes, sir.
18 Brian Davidson: All right. And, uh, so you're familiar with what that depicts?
19 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: Yes, sir.
20 Brian Davidson: All right. So, um, and I don't know if you watched it recently, we can
21 watch it right now if you want to, um.
22 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: I've watched it recently.
23 Brian Davidson: Okay. Great. Um, so can you tell us in your opinion, um, was
24 Officer Dewey and Officer McKenzie's choice to use deadly force in
25 that scenario, was it consistent with or inconsistent with PSU's
26 policy on use of deadly force?
27 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: They're actions were consistent with our policy on deadly force.
342 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: Okay. So let me, can you walk us through your analysis of what
2 they're confronted with and why their use of deadly force was
3 consistent with PSU policy.
4 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: Sure. So, um, they're going to another call. They have no
5 information, uh, about the event that's occurring that the encounter.
6 Uh, so they're goin' to another call. They come upon, uh, that event,
7 which from the video appears to be, uh, some altercations between a
8 group of people. Uh, they have a responsibility when they see
9 actions like that to take some kinda action to, to protect the peace, to
10 protect citizens, uh, to protect property. Um, so, uh, they do exactly
11 that. Ya know, they get outta the car. We activate our cameras, and
12 then we, uh, we start, the officers start to separate the combatants,
13 uh, in, in that event. Um, again, they don't have any idea of what's
14 goin' on. They don't know if there's a good guy or a bad guy. They
15 don't know what, uh, started this whole thing. So they're just tryin' to
16 get people separated so no one gets hurt, and it calms down and they
17 can maybe sort it out. Um, they start doin' that. They start physically
18 separating folks. There's some information that comes across that,
19 uh, someone has a gun. Um, I think in one of the views of the, or I
20 know in one of the views of the camera, uh, one of those individuals
21 actually points, uh, to someone that says that person, uh, pointed a
22 gun at us or took a gun out at us. Um, and, and then there's, uh, some
23 scufflin' that goes on. Uh, there's a gun that's visible. Um, and, uh,
24 stickin' out of a pocket. That person goes down on the ground in this
25 scuffle. Actually, a couple people go down. Uh, that person goes
26 down on the ground in the scuffle, and it appears the gun falls out.
27 Um, then there's still a little bit of movement. Um, and we're, you've
343 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 seen the video, that, that encompasses, ya know, 30-35 seconds
2 worth of time there that all that occurs in. Um, there's some, uh, still
3 some movement goin' on. The person whose, uh, that has the gun
4 that the gun falls outta their pocket, uh, then goes ahead and picks
5 that gun up, and it's about that time, uh, that the officers notice, uh,
6 that that person has a gun. Um, Dewey identifies that guy has a gun.
7 He's starts to verbalize the commands to, uh, don't pick it up, don't
8 pick it up, don't pick it up and then we, they talk about, ya know,
9 puttin' the gun down, droppin' the gun. Uh, um, that person has the
10 gun in their hand. Uh, they, uh, the gun is pointed, um, at the backs
11 of at least two other folks, um, that are there at the scene. Um, and
12 then the gun starts to come around, the, come around towards, um,
13 and actually points directly at McKenzie, um, uh, in the camera view
14 uh, you can see the gun pointed right at McKenzie at, at which point,
15 uh, uh, the folks use deadly force. Um, so all of that, uh, leads up, ya
16 know, they have, they have an alteration that's occurring. Uh, they
17 know that there is, uh, some danger to folks there. Um, then there's
18 the fact that a gun has been, uh, uh, articulated that there is a gun
19 present. Um, they see the gun. Uh, they address the person that has
20 that gun in their hand. Um, and they get no compliance, uh, of that
21 uh, through several seconds as the gun sweeps across other people
22 and then gets pointed, uh, at McKenzie. Um, as far as the policy
23 goes, the fact that the gun is in somebody's hand, uh, it's an imminent
24 threat, um, and an imminent danger, uh, to the other folks that are
25 there as well as the officers, um, that it's reasonable to, to believe
26 that that could, that gun could in fact be used against those other
344 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 people, um, and/or the officers in that event. So the deadly force, uh,
2 again, would be uh, in compliance, uh, with our policy.
3 Brian Davidson: Would you train your officers to wait, uh, to see if the person
4 actually is going, is actually firing rounds before returning fire?
5 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: Uh, there's significant amount of training that's associated with that.
6 Um, and, um, you always lose. Uh, you always lose. The person that
7 is going to instigate – and this is any amount of force – um, if I stand
8 next to somebody and decide to punch them, I'm gonna get the
9 punch off before – no matter how quick they are – I'll get the punch
10 off before they can jerk their head or get their arm up because I have
11 the advantage in that. And it's the same thing, um, in this, in these
12 kinds of situations where this deadly force is imminent. You, you
13 just, it's not like the movies. You can't see the gun, and the guys
14 gives you a little flinch, and then you're gonna outdraw him, and
15 you'll be okay. It doesn't work like that. You're always gonna lose.
16 Um, so we, uh, we do not – and as a matter of fact the policy
17 addresses that there is no obligation for the officer to wait, uh, until
18 he gets shot to return any fire, uh, in that deadly situation.
19 Brian Davidson: Hm. How do they use the different tools? Uh, for example,
20 responding with, uh, uh, pepper spray or, uh, I know that the officers
21 are equipped with tasers. Uh, would that have been an appropriate
22 choice given with what they were confronted with?
23 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: Uh, and the answer is no. We specifically train, um, that, uh, the
24 taser is not a deterrent to any kind of deadly force situation. So if a
25 person has a knife, uh, or a gun, uh, the taser is not gonna in,
26 incapacitate that person. By the time we decide to make the choice,
27 okay, I'm gonna use the taser now and this man is pointing a gun at
345 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 me, by the time I make the choice to go ahead and try to get a taser
2 out and do that, again, I've lost, uh, the advantage in that situation.
3 Plus, a taser or pepper spray, uh, or a night stick or anything else that
4 you would wanna use, um, it has, uh, a definitive amount of time
5 before it takes affect before it would incapacitate somebody. Um, so
6 it's, it's just not logical to use it in a deadly force situation. We train,
7 um, specifically, uh, there at the university after the academy, um,
8 we incorporate, uh, those direct scenarios in our firearms and in our,
9 uh, defensive tactics, um, and in our taser policy. So we'll give them,
10 uh, a situation that, uh, has a person with a knife, and they have
11 make a decision are they gonna use a taser or are they gonna use
12 lethal force, um, in that. And, and then uh, we train, uh, with that. It's
13 the same thing at the range. Ya know, we wanna make sure that folks
14 make conscious decisions. Um, so for instance, at the range, we don't
15 have a command structure when we're firing at the range. We don't
16 say shooters, ready fire. We don't tell our cops to fire. They have to
17 make that choice. So we tell 'em to get ready on the line, then we
18 blow a whistle which makes it, the event start. Now the cops hafta
19 decide am I gonna address this threat. Certainly, on the range we tell
20 'em, ya know, this, this target, uh, is a threat. Uh, you, you're gonna
21 need to uh, address that threat. But by given 'em the whistle, then we
22 allow them, uh, to make some decisions, give verbalizations. Uh,
23 maybe move to cover. Um, that kinda thing before they use deadly
24 force.
25 Brian Davidson: Um, you're currently wearing ballistic vest?
26 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: I am. Yes, sir.
346 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: Uh, and, I’m assuming Dew, we've heard that Dewey and, uh,
2 McKenzie were wearing ballistic vests that evening?
3 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: Yes, sir. They were.
4 Brian Davidson: It's a standard part of the uniform?
5 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: Yes, sir.
6 Brian Davidson: Um, if, if an officer's wearing a ballistic vest, which I think is
7 designed to I guess impeded gunshots on the body –
8 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: Right.
9 Brian Davidson: – um, why should they be worried potentially about being shot?
10 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: Well, um, although, uh, they consistently work, uh, they don't always
11 work. Um, it is, uh, it's unknown what kind of a, they don't defeat all
12 ammunition. Uh, so there's ammunition that's specifically made,
13 handgun ammunition, that's specifically made and sold, uh, that
14 defeats the vest. So, uh, it'll go right through the vest, uh, no matter
15 what. But a normal 9-millimeter handgun bullet, 45 millime, or, uh,
16 45-caliber bullet will get stopped by the vest. Um, I'll just point out
17 that the vest doesn't really cover all that much. There's lots of things
18 that are open, uh, most notably your head and some of your, uh, ya
19 know, larger extremities. Um, it, it's meant for the best protection. So
20 it's, it's just not the safeguard. You just can't say, hey, I'll take a
21 couple rounds and then I'll decide what to do. Um, it's just not full
22 proof.
23 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. And I guess it goes without saying, obviously, with
24 civilians in the area, one would assume are not wearing ballistic
25 vests, so if those people were the target of the gunfire, they wouldn't
26 be protected.
27 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: Right, exactly.
347 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: Okay. Um, questions from the Grand Jury?
2 Other Speaker: I have quite a few actually, sorry. Um, so first of all you said that
3 you're not, they’re not trained to, ya know, really, um, wait for the
4 other person to fire or anything like that. Um, is there any kind of a
5 waiting period that they're trained to between giving the command to
6 drop a gun and actually firing their weapon?
7 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: I would answer that the training we give them is they're gonna have
8 to, they're gonna hafta decide, each individual cop is gonna hafta
9 decide where, how much of that verbalization they're gonna give,
10 given the totality of their perception of those circumstances that they
11 have at the time before they feel that it is necessary to use deadly
12 force. So it's not a thing where you gotta say it three times and then
13 if they don't comply. It is, it is merely, um, uh, their perception of all
14 the events at the time. Um, and, and that, and that factors in some
15 things like, um, what kinda movement's goin' on? What kind've other
16 people are around? How big is the bad guy? Uh, what kind of gun,
17 uh, the bad guy has? Um, ya know, is the person retreating? Is the
18 bad guy retreating, or are they moving towards, are they stationary,
19 going laterally? Um, y, you know, there's things like that if they're
20 involved. One of the other things that kicks in, in that instance that
21 you're talkin' about, um, is our cops are trained that they're trying to
22 maximize their safety as well. So now they'll pro'bly – and it did in
23 this, in this instance – they'll start to move for cover. They're gonna,
24 they're gonna outta their peripheral vision try to pick up where could
25 I go to be safe so that I can stay in a fight or continue my verbal
26 commands until somebody complies. Um, so they might move
27 towards a, a barricade or a, a, a stan**** or something or a car or
348 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 whatever. Um, so they're tryin' to factor in those kinda things when
2 they go. So they can't definitively, uh, ya know, uh, give an answer
3 as, of when is enough.
4 Other Speaker: All right. Are they given any kind of training on how to handle
5 people that might be inebriated or otherwise mentally incapacitated?
6 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: Yes, ma'am. We have, um, uh, we have crisis intervention training
7 which is often focused on mentally ill people, but it also takes into
8 effect people that are in a crisis situation. So people that are upset,
9 uh, about any event that they're in. People that inebriated. People that
10 aren't listening to our commands. So, um, w, we have instances
11 where instead of just shoutin' at somebody, you lower your voice so
12 that they start concentrating on you. Um, in other instances, in, in, in
13 say in an instance like this, um, we might start use to profanity. Uh,
14 profanity makes people pay attention a little bit. And one of the
15 things that we do train people to do, the reason they, they shout
16 loudly obviously to be heard, um, but that disrupts a person's
17 thinking. Um, if you shout at someone, the, they're, it's automatic for
18 people to think well why are they shoutin' at me? Or they'll get angry
19 that you're shouting at them, which again delays their response time,
20 um, and makes them think a little more about what they have to do.
21 So it gives you time, uh, to make some kind of decision.
22 Other Speaker: Um, and then also do Portland police, um, officers carry stun guns?
23 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: Stun –
24 Other Speaker: Stun guns?
25 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: – guns? Or pepper spray or anything other than?
26 Brian Davidson: When you say Portland –
27 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: Portland police or us?
349 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Other Speaker: Oh, I'm sorry. Portland State Police?
2 Brian Davidson: Okay.
3 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: Yeah, we carry pepper, uh, and we carry, uh, tasers, yes.
4 Other Speaker: ****, correct. No, okay.
5 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: Um, stun gun isn't, it's not a term that's used anymore. I guess it's
6 still out there.
7 Other Speaker: Yeah.
8 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: But we don't carry a stun gun.
9 Other Speaker: No, okay. Gotcha.
10 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: Yeah, so taser. And you, you know what a –
11 Other Speaker: Yeah, where it, yeah.
12 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: Okay.
13 Other Speaker: Okay. Thank you.
14 Brian Davidson: Any additional questions for Sergeant Schilling?
15 Other Speaker: Yeah, one, um, question about the arrival of the officers.
16 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: Mm hmm.
17 Other Speaker: Just general notification from many of the witnesses we've heard
18 they didn't hear anything or didn't know that there was a presence.
19 And I was just curious like what's the policy for turning the lights on
20 in the car or for running the siren and that sort of thing to notify them
21 the police have arrived?
22 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: Um, if we were parkin' in traffic, um, our policy would address if we
23 were going to a call code. Um, so we had to get to a call quickly, it
24 would talk about lights and siren. Um, if we were just parking, like
25 say if we just stopped in the middle of the street, uh, one of our
26 policies would say we would turn the overheads on, the overhead
27 lights on, um, so that we wouldn't, uh, be a danger in traffic, uh, or,
350 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 or whatever that kinda situation is. And usually, more often than not,
2 anytime we stop the car, we reach down and go for the first detent on
3 the light bar which, which just gives, uh, people behind us
4 notification that the car is stopped. So it might not necessarily turn
5 on, um, lights that would be seen in a 360-degree, uh, fashion. Um,
6 to get out at the scene that was in this instance, the policy wouldn't
7 address exactly what you should do. Uh, anytime we're talking about
8 lights or siren, we're talking about safety and warning. Um, and in
9 this instance, um, there wouldn't be any addressed specifically. And I
10 have to apologize and say I don't recall without looking at the video
11 again whether the lights were on that first detent or not. I don't recall.
12 Brian Davidson: And as far as, I think part of your question was announcing? Was
13 that part of your question announcing?
14 Other Speaker: It's all related to –
15 Brian Davidson: Yeah.
16 Other Speaker: – to announcement, yeah.
17 Brian Davidson: But again saying, ya know, saying, hey, police are here and things
18 like that.
19 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: Yeah. And we would try to give as much, uh, as much information to
20 folks as possible. Um, so like Dewey was doing, like they were
21 doing, they were telling people to separate people and that kinda
22 thing. Of course they have a uniform on, they're gettin' out of a
23 police car, so some of that kind've stuff, um, we're hopin' gets across
24 just for the fact that our mere presence is there.
25 Other Speaker: Mm hmm. Um, if, if, if there was, if there wasn't a gun involved and
26 I realize there was, but is there policy for breaking up fights? Uh.
27 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: Well, no, no. There's not a policy.
351 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Other Speaker: Okay.
2 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: W, w, we have training that talks about how to safely interject
3 yourself, um, into situations like this. But it's not really a policy. Uh,
4 I, I guess it would, if, if you wanna think about a policy, uh, the
5 policy is, um, we need to do what we can to minimize any kind of
6 damage to citizens or property. Uh, that's one of our duties to
7 intercede. Um, and so whatever is reasonable to make that happen.
8 Um, ya know, I, I can tell you, uh, that sometimes depending upon
9 how big a fight is and how many cops are there, um, the thing is to,
10 uh, just drive off a block and wait 'til you have a whole bunch more
11 cops before you go in to address that. Um, so there are times when
12 it's, uh, it's kinda silly to get out of a car, um, and ver, break up a
13 fight. Um, ya know? But there's not a policy.
14 Other Speaker: Okay. Um, and – ****?
15 Other Speaker: Oh.
16 Other Speaker: So one of the things that struck me, uh, in looking at the video is
17 there, there was a – moment, I know this all very unpleasant –
18 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: Mm hmm.
19 Other Speaker: – I understand this is a very stressful situation, but there was a
20 moment where, uh, Jason bumped into Officer Dewey.
21 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: Yes.
22 Other Speaker: Um, and, uh, I think the question on my mind was why wasn't, why
23 wasn't that a moment where something could have been happened to
24 get somebody outta that fight? Ya know, I mean if you look at that
25 and, um, um, on the video it was relative to the volume that we heard
26 before. This is kind of a calm moment.
27 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
352 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Other Speaker: Um, ya know, please stop. I forget what exactly he said, but –
2 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: Mm hmm.
3 Other Speaker: – uh, quietly to him, you’re asking him to not get into a fight or
4 something. So what, ya know, from your perspective, should more
5 have been done there and what was the, how should that have been
6 dealt with?
7 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: Well, uh, let me start with this. Remember that the camera view is, is
8 static and sitting on my chest. And so when I say to you, hey, calm
9 down, I grab you and say something, and then something over here
10 catches my attention, if I don't move my body and I look over here,
11 and now I see something else, this here now, I, I can't concentrate on
12 that any longer. Ya know? So I might push this person away and
13 now concentrate on what this person is doing. Oh they, they're not a
14 threat, they're not doing anything. And then now I can look back and
15 then now maybe you're a foot away or something and, and I can't. So
16 I, I guess I'm tellin' ya that, um, when I say that they acted within
17 policy, I, I can say definitively, um, that I think they did absolutely
18 the best they could do in the situation that they were encountering.
19 Um when they had multiple people that they were tryin', uh, to deal
20 with. Um, and in that situation, I just say that, uh, the camera shows
21 that, yeah, I mean, well, I'll say this, the camera clearly shows the
22 gun poked out of his pocket. And yet at that point, neither cop says
23 you got a gun in your pocket, and it's because the camera saw it, but
24 they didn't. And they're looking at hands and they're lookin' at faces.
25 They're lookin' at seein' where people look. Because if I'm gonna
26 punch you, I'm gonna look right at ya to punch ya. I'm not gonna
27 look over hear and try to punch ya. So that's what they're doin', and
353 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 they're taught to do that. They're taught to look at hands because
2 that's where the threat comes from, and they're taught to watch
3 people's eyes because their eyes are gonna give you the clue of
4 where they're going next. So they're focusin' up, and the camera's
5 focusin' down. So, um.
6 Brian Davidson: Lemme ask you this, uh, sergeant, um, in that kind of scrum, melee,
7 whatever we saw, fight, um, is that a fairly regular occurrence in
8 your jurisdiction?
9 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: Um, in that particular spot the answer is yes, sir.
10 Brian Davidson: And is it because of the proximity to the Cheerful Tortoise?
11 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: An, and, and the fact that there's a couple dorms right there.
12 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
13 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: Um, and, and the answer's yes.
14 Brian Davidson: Okay. So is that kind of encounter, um, for your police force a fairly
15 commonplace kind've encounter? I mean obviously it didn't turn out
16 to be commonplace.
17 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: Right.
18 Brian Davidson: But in the officers' experience, is that the kind've encounter they
19 would frequently have, kind of in that area?
20 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: Yes, sir. It, it's not unusual at all.
21 Brian Davidson: Okay.
22 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: It's not unusual at all. And it's also not unusual for, um, the situation
23 to calm down within that first 30 seconds as well.
24 Brian Davidson: All right. Does, does the appearance, the mere appearance of the
25 police on the scene frequently have the effect of everyone taking off,
26 the fight stopping and the whole thing being deescalated?
354 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: And the answer is yes. I can give you an example of just 2 nights ago
2 in the same spot, there were some people startin' a deal outside of the
3 Cheerful Tortoise. Um, and I just drove up in a police car. Didn't get
4 out, didn't turn overheads on, didn't do anything. I just turned the
5 same corner they did, and I was half a block away and everybody
6 was gone. So, um, it just depends on the event and, and what people
7 perceive and all that kinda thing.
8 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
9 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: So it's always dependent, uh, upon the people that are there and how
10 much they're concentrating on what's going on.
11 Brian Davidson: Okay. More questions?
12 Other Speaker: Um, so going along with that, other than the, the mere presence, are
13 they given any kind of training in de-escalation of conflicts?
14 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: Sure. Um, and, and, uh, and that's exactly what they're doing when
15 they're tryin' to separate people. When they're tryin' to physically
16 separate people, ya know, um, you hafta get people's attention, you
17 have to have people listen to ya to do any kind of verbal
18 de-escalation. Um, and so uh, grabbin' onto someone, that let's 'em
19 know you're there. That also gives them the idea that that's the
20 police. They look at you, they see your uniform, they know it's the
21 police. So, hey, leave him alone, get back, quit it, what, whatever it
22 is you wanna use to do that, that's the start of that verbal de-
23 escalation. Um, if they have maybe had the luxury of being half a
24 block away, uh, before they encountered that and so that they could
25 start that yelling way back here and get people's attention, then
26 maybe they could do that. Hey, you guys stand over there and get
27 that compliance, um, and then they can start, uh, that kinda thing.
355 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Butcha hafta have a starting point. And, and in this situation, they
2 were still tryin' to get that starting point.
3 Other Speaker: Okay, and also you had mentioned about the position of the body
4 cameras and how –
5 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: Mm hmm.
6 Other Speaker: – you can't tell what, ya know, what heads are doing and stuff like
7 that. Can I ask why they're positioned where they are?
8 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: Um, because it gives the best view. I, I told ya that we tried, um, the
9 cameras that attach to the glasses and attach to hats. Well hats and
10 glasses fall off. Um, and then also I might be grappling with
11 someone here, I might look over here, now the camera is focused
12 over here, but here is where the event is occurring. Ya know, or
13 here's where the guy's punching me. Or here's the force I'm using is
14 here. So nine times outta ten anytime that I'm gonna do anything as
15 far as force goes or even talking to somebody, I'm gonna turn, I'm
16 gonna blade myself a little bit. So this gives, um, the best view in our
17 experience. Um, it's also the most rugged place that it won't get
18 dislodged. Um, it, ya know, the manufacturers have a, a lot of things
19 that you can do, mount 'em different places. Um, there's one that
20 goes up on the epaulet up here. Um, but it's the same kinda thing. It's
21 hangin' on an epaulet and it gets knocked off and, and then you're,
22 and then you're done. It doesn't do any good. So it really comes back
23 to our experience.
24 Other Speaker: Gotcha. Thank you.
25 Brian Davidson: Additional questions for Sergeant Schilling?
356 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Other Speaker: Yeah. Just, just some more for me. Um, so when we heard from
2 Officer Dewey about the incident, he was alerted about the gun
3 immediately upon arrival.
4 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: Mm hmm.
5 Other Speaker: And he told us that he was laser focused on that gun since the point
6 of arrival.
7 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: Mm hmm.
8 Other Speaker: And my understanding from the testimony is that's before he ran in,
9 before Jason ran into him. Um, and so, ya know, one of the things
10 that I'm struggling with is why, why wasn't he working at getting
11 that gun away from Jason at that point or was there something else
12 going on, ya know, or why as that not the focus, um, at that point?
13 Because obviously after that, it was lost right?
14 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: Mm hmm.
15 Other Speaker: One, once he got away from his hands –
16 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: Mm hmm.
17 Other Speaker: – that was it and everything escalated. Um, and so I'm just curious.
18 Like what, ya know?
19 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: I'm gonna hafta say that I don't have an answer for ya.
20 Brian Davidson: Hold on one second. Yeah, wha, what are you, because if you're
21 asking why, um, –
22 Other Speaker: I guess I'm tryin' to understand –
23 Brian Davidson: – Officer Dewey did something –
24 Other Speaker: – I'm not – I'm not tryin' to –
25 Brian Davidson: – then it probably won’t be–
26 Other Speaker: – ask him about what Officer Dewey's did. I'm tryin' to understand
27 what, what is your expectation that the training or the policy be
357 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 regarding that. If you seen a gun and know that somebody has a gun,
2 what should be your response to seeing that gun?
3 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: Um, our training would, would dictate that, uh, we let the other
4 officers know, um, right away, uh, that we see a gun. Uh, or that
5 there's a gun there. Um, and then whatever course of events that
6 would be appropriate for the circumstances, uh, to make sure that
7 that gun is then secured and not gonna be able to be used against,
8 um, our, uh, us or anyone else at the scene. So, um, I mean that
9 would be the training. Again, that's based on, so then your response
10 to that training is going to be based on the circumstances that you
11 encounter, uh, in that event. And so, uh, again, ya know, I, I look at
12 the video. I mean I see the gun, ya know, relatively soon. Although
13 relatively soon is 10 or 15 seconds into the whole deal.
14 Other Speaker: Mm hmm.
15 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: Ya know? Um, and then 5 seconds later, something else changes. So
16 it's not a lotta time, uh, to make a plan or even to make a dive
17 towards the gun, to be honest with ya. Ya know?
18 Other Speaker: Yeah, I understand.
19 Sergeant Joseph Schilling: I, I would add one more thing in that respect. Um, one of the other
20 concepts associated with seein' a gun, um, is to make time and
21 distance for yourself. Um, and that's a, that's kinda of a, a, a, an all-
22 encompassing defensive tactics policy to make time and distance for
23 yourself. Um, time for you to make, uh, a good response and to
24 formulate a plan. Um, and distance because distance allows you that
25 time. So even if I see a gun and it's within an arm's reach, I hafta
26 make a decision am I gonna grab the gun or am I gonna take a
27 couple steps back so that I can then have a better, uh, uh, plan in
358 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 place to deal with the gun. Um, ya know, so it's, that time and
2 distance thing very well could be, uh, ya know, what, uh, what
3 Officer Dewey is thinkin', uh, in that instance. I do know that, ya
4 know, the actions that they took, the movements they made, uh, were
5 actually 100 percent in compliance with that concept. Um, they were
6 moving towards cover. They were, uh, moving away from the
7 perceived threat, uh, so that they'd have more time and distance to
8 make decision, uh, about what was gonna happen.
9 Other Speaker: Okay.
10 Brian Davidson: Any other questions for Sergeant Schilling?
11 Brian Davidson: No? Okay. That's it for Sergeant Schilling. We'll go off the record.
12 And we're back on the record, and the state's next witness is Scott
13 Willadsen. Mr. Willadsen, if you'd stand and raise your right hand,
14 they will swear you in.
15 Other Speaker: Do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to
16 give in the matter pending before this Grand Jury shall be the truth,
17 the whole truth and nothing but the truth?
18 Scott Willadsen: I do.
19 Brian Davidson: Okay. Go ahead and have a seat. If you could state and spell your
20 full name for us, please.
21 Scott Willadsen: Scott Willadsen, last name is W-I-L-L-A-D-S-E-N.
22 Brian Davidson: All right. And, um, Mr. Willadsen, how are you employed.
23 Scott Willadsen: Uh, I work for the Oregon State Public Safety Academy, which is
24 where we train all the police, corrections, uh, parole and probation,
25 Oregon liquor control officers in the State of Oregon.
26 Brian Davidson: And how long have you been employed there?
27 Scott Willadsen: Uh, 10 years now.
359 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: And do you have a background in law enforcement?
2 Scott Willadsen: I do. Before I came to work for the Oregon State Police Academy,
3 uh, I worked for the Union County Sheriff's Office over in Eastern
4 Oregon. I worked there for 10 years before.
5 Brian Davidson: Uh, from when to when?
6 Scott Willadsen: Uh, from 1998 to 2008. Pretty much exactly 10 years. I started in
7 late July and left in early August. Uh, and then I've been with the
8 Academy since August of '08. Uh, while I was with the sheriff's
9 office, I was a corrections officers, a patrol officer, uh, I was on the
10 tactical team and I did most of the training for the agency for use of
11 force, firearms, things like that, defensive tactics.
12 Brian Davidson: And is that in fact kinda your area of focus, uh, as an instructor now
13 at the Academy?
14 Scott Willadsen: Yeah. So my job right now at the Academy is I coordinate the
15 use-of-force program. Uh, that takes, um, two different kinda halves
16 to that. Part of it is a classroom side where we, we cover, um,
17 application of the law. Uh, we do a lot of, uh, debriefs, uh, videos.
18 We talk about what things mean in the real world versus what is the
19 Oregon Revised Statute say or maybe the Constitution say. And then
20 we take that and we put it into the practice and use-of-force
21 scenarios. So I also run that half of the program where we do a lot of,
22 uh, both video and live scenario training specifically around their
23 ability to make use-of-force decisions and then carry out those
24 decisions.
25 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. And, um, for the cadets going through the academy, uh,
26 how many hours of that type of training are they, uh, put through?
360 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Scott Willadsen: So when you combine it all together, it's quite a bit. Um, I'd have to
2 break it down. But, for example, a use-of-force classroom right now,
3 it hovers around, when you include the law portion, hovers around
4 18 hours. Uh, give or take an hour depending on, on how quickly we
5 get through some of the material. Uh, they get the scenario training
6 as 20 hours. That's both video and live scenarios. Uh, they get 44
7 hours of defensive tactics training. Uh, which covers everything
8 from handcuffing a perfectly cooperative person to defending
9 against, uh, somebody with a knife or gun at 0 distance and, and
10 everything in between. Um, the firearms program, I wanna say is 46
11 to 48 hours in length. Um, and then on top of that there's also some
12 other kinda tangential training. They do scenario training in a, uh,
13 mock-up village we have that sometimes touches on these aspects of,
14 uh, use-of-force decision making, defensive tactics and firearms.
15 But, uh, those aren't their primary focuses.
16 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. Okay. And in addition to everything else you've just
17 talked about, I mean the, the cadets are learning about all kinds of
18 other aspects of police work while they're at the academy?
19 Scott Willadsen: Yeah. We teach them everything from, um, how to make a contact
20 during a, uh, vehicle stop and, uh, write a ticket to how to investigate
21 a domestic violence case. Um, how to of course deal with drunk
22 drivers. Um, how to deal with people with behavioral health issues.
23 Uh, we touch on pretty much every aspect of law enforcement. Um,
24 some of the really specialized stuff we stay away from because it's
25 not, it's not, uh, generalized enough. What we do is we construct a
26 general foundation for all recruits in the State of Oregon, and every
27 law enforcement officer has to go through the academy. So if it's
361 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 something really, um, kinda like a niche or something really specific
2 like how do you run a drug dog, we don't cover that because not
3 every agency has those. But every agency has to make traffic stops,
4 has to deal with, uh, drunk drivers, has to deal with domestic
5 violence, um, has to deal with burglary reports and things of that
6 nature, so that's what we handle.
7 Brian Davidson: And how long is the academy?
8 Scott Willadsen: 16 weeks for police.
9 Brian Davidson: All right. So, uh, we've asked you here today because obviously you
10 know that we're, um, considering this issue of this officer use of
11 deadly force, uh, by Portland State University police officers.
12 Scott Willadsen: Yes.
13 Brian Davidson: Um, and you, you've seen the video I know previously.
14 Scott Willadsen: I have.
15 Brian Davidson: Uh, of these, of this encounter. Um, before we get to that in
16 particular though, would you kinda just walk us through um, kind of,
17 how are the cadets trained, what guidance are they given, uh, as far
18 as when it's appropriate to use deadly force. How they train to, to
19 deal with this situation.
20 Scott Willadsen: N'kay. So our use-of-force program is what we, is based on what we
21 call the objective reasonableness standard. And that comes to us
22 from, uh, the Constitution of the United States. And the reason we do
23 that is because that standard is actually more strict than the Oregon
24 Revised Statutes. So what we teach is kind've a two-prong approach
25 to use of force. We teach them what does the Oregon Revised
26 Statutes say about when I can and can't use force, and then what does
27 the Constitution say about when is force, uh, reasonable or, or not
362 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 reasonable. Uh, when is it excessive, when is it, um, justified. And
2 those two things have to run parallel to each other the whole time
3 because regardless of what the Oregon Revised Statute says, uh,
4 we're still in the United States and we still hafta follow federal law
5 and whether or not the federal law says it's okay, we're still in
6 Oregon, we gotta follow Oregon law. So our entire program is built
7 upon the fact that they have to meet both standards all the time. Um,
8 we start with introducing them to the Oregon Revised Statutes, um,
9 and the Oregon Constitution, which very much mirrors the federal
10 Constitution. Um, they’re kind've in a different order, but essentially
11 there is a, a now just, uh, Oregon Constitutional Amendment that
12 there would be for example the First Amendment of the United
13 States. It's, it’s one or the other. And then it's for Oregon. So we
14 kinda cover that in use-of-force law. We give them a basic
15 introduction, uh, to what those things are. And then we cover what
16 all the Oregon Revised Statutes are that have to do with the law
17 enforcement officer's ability to use force. Primarily that comes from
18 two statutes, which is, uh, 161.235, which allows in Oregon to use
19 physical force in order to make an arrest, uh, or prevent escape. Uh,
20 and then it gives a whole bunch of conditions. It says like here are a
21 whole bunch of specific things. Uh, and then we also cover 161.239,
22 which is where a police officer is allowed to use deadly physical
23 force. And then of course that law has a bunch of conditions where it
24 say you can use it here, you can't use it there. That's their first 4
25 hours. We then take that a few days later, and we start, um, putting
26 that into application. Um, and we do that primarily by showing a lot
27 of videos. What we do is we show a video of something happening
363 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 and then we will break it down and discuss whether or not it meets,
2 um, the Oregon Revised Statute, whether or not any crimes are
3 committed, uh, where does this fall in line, and then we use the
4 objective reasonableness standard that comes from the federal law to
5 establish whether or not the use of force was reasonable. Whether
6 that balancing act of what's my governmental interest here. Why,
7 why do I wanna arrest or stop this person from doing something
8 versus how much force had to use to do that and then was it
9 reasonable or not. Uh, we do that by going through what's called a
10 Graham analysis. That comes from a case, uh, from 1989, and a
11 Graham analysis has six factors, and we kinda drill this into the
12 police officers. And from that point forward, we do a Graham
13 analysis on pretty much everything that they do. If there's a live
14 scenario, ya know, we might start with what was the crime that was
15 committed? Why were you there tryin' to arrest them? And then it
16 goes into let's talk about the Graham analysis and see whether or not
17 your use of force was reasonable given why we were there. Uh, that
18 Graham analysis covers six things. The first thing is what was the
19 severity of the crime and/or why am I here? Um, obviously if I'm
20 hunting down somebody who just committed a murder, I have a
21 significantly higher reason for being there than if I'm, um,
22 investigating somebody for not wearing their seatbelt, which is, ya
23 know, it's a $115.00 ticket. It's meh. The next one is is the subject an
24 immediate threat? Does the officers perceive that person as an
25 immediate threat to either themselves or other people? Uh, and then
26 we have a, an analysis we go through that. It's an informal analysis,
27 but essentially what we're looking at is things like what did you
364 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 interpret as the intent of the person? Uh, for example, were they
2 screaming things like no, I'm gonna kick your, uh, butt, I'm not going
3 back to jail with their fists up? Or were they saying, hey man, I'd just
4 like to talk to my lawyer before, uh, we go any farther? Um,
5 something, ya know, we're looking for some sort of an intent.
6 Frequently that intent – and this is where the videos come into play –
7 frequently that intent is inaudible. That intent usually comes from
8 things like body language, uh, movements, things like they reach
9 down and they grab the knife outta the drawer. They reach down and
10 they grab the gun. They put their fists up. Things like that. When we
11 introduce them to scenario training, though, we make it really, really
12 simple 'cause it, quite frankly it's hard enough just getting them to
13 walk and talk simultaneously and think about what they wanna do,
14 and so we make it really easy in the beginning then it becomes more
15 and more nuance as they go through the training. Uh, some other
16 factors that play into whether or not somebody's perceived as an
17 immediate threat is, uh, their ability to actually cause harm to people.
18 Uh, whether that means, um, they're a smaller, um, stature person,
19 they don't seem to have a lotta muscle mass, they don't have any
20 weapons, all the way up to this is a giant bruiser who's got, um,
21 biceps the size of my thighs, who's like 7-feet tall or they've got a
22 knife or they've got a gun. Um, whatever that might be kinda that,
23 that mixture that allows that officer to interpret, ooh, I think that
24 person can hurt me or I don't think that person can hurt me. And that
25 also is based on the officers themselves, because obviously, ya
26 know, how big and how strong they are and how they're armed is
27 gonna play into that. And then the last thing is that subjects still has
365 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 to have the opportunity to affect the officer. Whether to, uh, hurt
2 somebody else or hurt the officer, you've gotta be able to get to
3 them. And that kinda, they all tie together. So if a person's got a
4 knife and they're saying that they're gonna kill the officer but they're
5 35 feet away and there's a bunch of barriers in between them,
6 obviously the opportunity for that subject is really low unless they
7 start running around the park benches and making their way to the
8 officer. Uh, so as long as they stay over there, they can say anything
9 they want and they can have a knife all they want. I'm not really in
10 danger and, as long as there's no one else around, I wouldn't interpret
11 them as being a big threat to me, although I can't just leave. The
12 flipside of that is obviously if somebody's got a gun, even if I'm
13 35 feet away and I've got a park benches around because that gun
14 has range, it can reach out and touch me, that person has become a
15 significantly more dangerous threat to me just by the simplibility to
16 use force. Uh, the last two factors are things like is this person
17 actively resisting arrest or not? Um, I told 'em they're under arrest. I
18 put my hands on them. Are they yanking, pulling, twisting away
19 from me, or do they just sit on a park bench and go I don't feel like I
20 wanna go to jail tonight? Um, how much resistance is there is gonna
21 determine how much force I getta use. Uh, the last few things we
22 evaluate are they trying to escape from me? That would go back to
23 like why am I there to arrest them? Um, are they, are we in a
24 situation where things are tense, uncertain and rapidly evolving?
25 And that's a really important one, uh, especially in a case like this,
26 because how much information that officer has and how long the
27 event unfolds gives me more time to make a rational decision versus
366 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 a, oh no, I must do something now decision. Um, and sometimes
2 that's outside of our control. And so we evaluate whether this
3 situation is tense, uncertain and rapidly evolving or whether the
4 situation, uh, is slowly evolving, it's not very tense hence I take you
5 back to the, the guy on the park bench who just doesn't wanna go to
6 jail who's like I don't feel like I wanna go to jail today. That's not
7 rapidly evolving. It's not very tense. He's not moving around a lot. I
8 don't have a lot of danger there. Uh, and then the last one and really
9 this is the key is the totality of the circumstances. Um, and there's, ya
10 know, basically just like in life, there's this long list of things where
11 it depends. Is it night? Can I see things very well? Is it rainy? How
12 many, ya know, suspects are there? How many officers are there?
13 Um, ya know, are we fighting on a hill? Are we in the bathroom of a
14 single-wide trailer? There's a million factors that go into whether or
15 not the officer should, um, escalate their force and, and use more
16 force than maybe they're normally would, um, or deescalate their
17 force. And some other things that come into play there would be like
18 the size and strength of the officer versus the size and strength of the
19 threat. Whole bunch of other factors. Essentially there's no end to the
20 list of reasons why I may or may not escalate my force. Um, and
21 that's really where it kinda, we get down to the nitty gritty of what's
22 going on with a particular use of force. Those are the six factors that
23 we always use, and then once we've established that, we just start
24 like I said showing them videos and putting them in the situations
25 where we have to start making decisions about that. Some of them
26 are slowly evolving. Some of them are rapidly evolving. Some of
27 them are super low lethal. Uh, a person just is like I don't wanna go
367 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 to jail and it's a struggle just to get 'em in handcuffs, all the way up
2 to somebody who is drawing a knife outta their pants, jumping on
3 top of the officer and trying to stab them. So, and we do everything
4 in between.
5 Brian Davidson: Okay.
6 Scott Willadsen: That's kinda the, sh-, the training in a nutshell.
7 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. Okay. Um, so, um, what about, uh, I guess, ya know, we
8 had talked about previously comes up sometimes, the action/reaction
9 principle.
10 Scott Willadsen: Yes.
11 Brian Davidson: Uh, and as it relates to time and distance, uh, from the threat, uh,
12 and, ya know, for example what you should, as an officer, you're
13 training your officers to wait to see for example whether someone is
14 going to use deadly force before you respond with deadly force. Can
15 you address some of those issues?
16 Scott Willadsen: Yeah. So we do a lot of training that has to do with, um, time being a
17 critical factor. Uh, action versus reaction – we don't train, how do I
18 put this – we don't train action versus reaction as a stand-alone class.
19 There's no classroom that says this is action versus reaction. Uh, but
20 what we do is we continuously put them into scenarios, uh, where
21 they see how fast things can actually happen and, and when things
22 begun, begin to, uh, unravel. When the situation starts to go downhill
23 or, or become really dangerous to people or just chaotic, uh, things
24 happen very, very quickly and part of that is from the fact that, you
25 know, it's hard for the officers to interpret all this information
26 coming in all at once. Um, just like, you know, if you went home
27 and you were having an argument, uh, with a friend but there are
368 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 also like six other friends there screaming at you about something
2 else, you would have a really hard time kinda deciphering what the
3 Number 1 conversation is. Uh, just to give you a simple example of
4 how stressful that can be for an officer who walks into a situation
5 with very little information and then tries to make a decision quickly
6 about how much force they should or shouldn't use in a particular
7 case. And then of course, you know, range is a factor. How far away
8 I am from that subject is always gonna play into, uh, my decision
9 making. If I've got four car lengths between us and it's just me and
10 another person on the side of the road, and I can see them and they're
11 not moving a lot, that gives me a lot more time to make a decision
12 versus there's like five people on a bar and, um, everybody's moving
13 around, or five people that I'm dealing with, not including all the
14 other people in the bar, and everybody's moving around screaming.
15 It doesn't give me very much time to assess a situation and then
16 make a good, rational decision. I have to make, uh, an intuitive
17 decision based on the little bit of information that I know. And we do
18 this all the time as humans, if you imagine yourself in traffic that's
19 chaotic and moving all around you, you sometimes have to make a
20 decision about whether or not you're gonna change lanes or hit your
21 brakes. And sometimes you make the right decision and sometimes
22 you make the wrong decision. The training we put the officers in, uh,
23 is three-fold. We put 'em in defensive tactic training, where we work
24 on close quarters, um, violent confrontations. We call it extreme
25 close quarters combat or extreme close quarters, um, contact. In
26 those situations, you know, we told them what's gonna happen, but
27 they still have a hard time managing, uh, a subject who, even though
369 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 we told them they're gonna draw a knife out of their waistband at
2 some point during this confrontation, um, even then, just because of
3 action versus reaction, it's sometimes hard for the officer, knowing
4 it's gonna happen, to stop that knife from coming out of the
5 waistband. Even though their arms reach and they should be able to
6 grab it and stop it. The key there is they don't know when the subject
7 is gonna reach into their pants and grab that knife out of their
8 waistband. Um, if you think about it in, in terms of maybe you did
9 when you were a kid, if you ever played the game with, uh, your,
10 your family members where they hold the dollar bill and you had
11 your hand down there and they're like if you could catch it, you
12 could keep it and let go of that dollar bill. Very few people could see
13 that dollar bill get let go, watch it fall, and then be able to grab that
14 before it hit the ground. Um, unless you're just lucky and you
15 anticipate the action. Some the other training that we do with them,
16 of course, is the force-on-force training, like I said. And in those
17 scenarios we, we do both scenarios of range and close and, uh, in
18 that situation it's a little more realistic because those officers literally
19 don't know what the subject's gonna do. We might give them the
20 information that, all right, we have a subject here who is wanted on a
21 warrant, uh, that warrant is for, uh, failure to appear on a DUII. Um,
22 this person has previously been a concealed weapons permit holder.
23 Go arrest them. And then they go out there and sometimes the
24 person's perfectly compliant, sometimes they physically resist arrest,
25 and sometimes that person grabs a gun out of their waistband and
26 starts shooting at the officer. And it happens very, very quickly, and
27 the officers, uh, start to realize that I didn't know there was a gun
370 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 there before. By the time I realized that one is coming out of the
2 waistband, it's almost too late for me to stop myself from getting
3 shot. Uh, we use what are called force-on-force rounds, uh, they're
4 essentially a plastic bullet that comes out of a, a gun that's been
5 modified to shoot those things, and, and they learn really quickly,
6 based on where they were standing, how close they were, whether or
7 not they saw any indicators that they might draw that gun, that it's
8 really, really hard to stop themselves from getting shot if they
9 weren't already in the process of moving to a cover position, or
10 drawing their gun, or tackling the person when the gun came out.
11 Um, it's just really difficult in real life to stop those things from
12 happening. The problem with waiting the course is that by the time I
13 wait and rationally evaluate whether or not this person is going to
14 use deadly force, that might mean I got shot and then now I realize,
15 uh-oh, they're gonna use deadly force, but that requires several
16 bullets to enter my body first. Um, if I can, uh, go back to some of
17 my training for a minute, one of the other things that I am, is I've, uh,
18 I'm an advanced force science analyst and, uh, what that means is
19 I've done a, a lot of extensive training on things like action versus
20 reaction and, and some – looked at some research that we've got out
21 there on how quickly, for example, somebody can pull the trigger on
22 the gun. Uh, the average human being with no training at all can fire
23 a round out of a handgun once every quarter of a second, which
24 means that's four or five rounds that can impact an officer before
25 they see the fact that the gun was coming out of the waistband, rr,
26 the brain picks it up and goes that's a gun, download the program
27 that says I need to draw my gun, and then actually carry out the
371 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 action to get their gun out and start returning fire, that's anywhere
2 from four to six rounds that the, the officer could get shot with. Um,
3 and we don't give them that information like as scientifically as I just
4 gave it to you, but they learn it in the room, they learn it, uh, either
5 by getting shot or they learn it in the video simulators where you put
6 'em in the same scenarios and the thing about the video simulator is I
7 can exactly recreate and rewind the video and show them how many
8 rounds the subject, the bad guy, got off before the officer was able to
9 draw and return fire and then see if it was even accurate fire that may
10 or may not stop that threat from continuing to be a, a deadly threat to
11 them. So hopefully I answered your question, –
12 Brian Davidson: Yeah, thank you.
13 Scott Willadsen: – although I think I took the roundabout way.
14 Brian Davidson: That's fine. That's good information. Um, let me ask you this. Um,
15 when, uh, as far as your instruction to the cadets, when, you know,
16 when you're instructing them, you know, it, it scenarios where they
17 are and they determine they must fire.
18 Scott Willadsen: Yeah.
19 Brian Davidson: Um, where do you, uh, instruct the, how do you instruct them to, to
20 shoot? I mean, do you instruct them to shoot to kill, do you instruct
21 them to, instruct them to shoot a particular part of the body? Can you
22 talk to us about that?
23 Scott Willadsen: Sure, so that's a good question. Um, in addition to my other jobs,
24 because of the job that I have, I'm also a firearms instructor. Um, and
25 I've been a firearms instructor for nearly 20 years. Um, we teach
26 them to shoot at the center mass of the target that's available, and we
27 teach them to shoot until the threat has stopped being a threat, uh,
372 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 until they, they recognize that the danger has passed. Uh, we do not
2 teach anyone to shoot to kill. At the same time, the flip side of that
3 was, we also don't teach people to shoot to wound, um, and I'll
4 explain both. We don't teach people to shoot to kill because I might
5 shoot a suspect one time, not kill him, but he still stops being a bad
6 guy. He still stops tryin' to kill me. He gets shot, realizes I probably
7 shouldn't have picked up that knife and told the officer I was gonna
8 kill him. They drop the knife, they go on the ground, we handcuff
9 them, we render aid and, and hopefully save their life. They stopped
10 being a threat to me. I don't have to continue to shoot them, and
11 that's one of the things, uh, that we teach them is, once the threat has
12 stopped, you have to stop shooting. Sometimes that takes a moment
13 or two for them to recognize, so there might be an extra round or two
14 fired, but still, once they get that recognition that the threat has
15 ended, they're supposed to stop. Uh, the flip side of that is,
16 sometimes the subject dies and, you know, I can't predict when that's
17 gonna happen. I can't predict how many rounds it's gonna take for
18 them to stop being a threat and then whether or not, um, they end up
19 dying from that is, you know, there's a lot of factors that go into that.
20 There's a lot of medical factors that go into that, that, there's a lot of
21 factors about where those shots enter the body. Um, there's of
22 course, um, factors about how many times they've gotten shot. It just
23 depends on whether or not they're gonna perish. Um, you know,
24 some suspects, one of those, the, um, videos that I saw when I was
25 going through training was called the Trooper Coates shooting. It's
26 very old. We don't show it anymore 'cause it's super grainy. Uh, in
27 that particular instance, a subject drew a gun on a trooper, um, which
373 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 was a 22-caliber pistol, and fired one round, which shot the trooper
2 one time, uh, entered just on the outside of his vest here. That
3 trooper died several minutes later. The trooper returned fire with six
4 rounds from his 357 Magnum revolver, hit the subject five out of six
5 times, the subject did not die. So we teach to shoot to stop to the
6 threat because if I shoot to kill, I don't, I don't know how many
7 rounds that might take, Number 1. Number 2, that's not my goal. My
8 goal's just for them to stop shooting me or to stop harming others or
9 to stop running at me with a knife. So once they've stopped doing
10 that, we want them to stop.
11 Brian Davidson: Okay.
12 Scott Willadsen: We don't teach to shoot to wound, primarily because weirdly
13 enough, shooting to wound can also kill people. Um, I sometimes get
14 questions like why don't we shoot to, shoot 'em in the legs to stop
15 them from charging at me. Number 1, that doesn't make them put
16 down the gun. Number 2, we've got a, some pretty big, um, blood
17 vessels and veins that run through the leg, and even if I shoot them in
18 the leg, that doesn't mean they won't die. In fact, they could die faster
19 than if I shoot them somewhere else, so there's a lot of reasons why.
20 We don't shoot to the hands to try to make 'em drop the gun because,
21 quite frankly, it's really, really hard. Uh, shooting a small target like
22 that, that's moving really dynamically, is is nearly impossible, and
23 they get to experience that both in the video simulators and the live
24 scenarios. Um, they have a hard-enough time getting roughly
25 30 percent of their rounds on target.
26 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. And um, maybe you can touch on it again. So why shoot
27 in the center mass? I mean, what is the point of that exactly?
374 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Scott Willadsen: It's the biggest target and moves the least amount.
2 Brian Davidson: Okay.
3 Scott Willadsen: So it's, it's not because I'm tryin' to kill 'em, it's because it's the, it's
4 the part that moves the least amount, and it's the biggest target.
5 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
6 Scott Willadsen: Um, if I'm shooting for arms and legs, they move around a lot,
7 they're harder to hit. Uh, I mean, I get the result I want, which is
8 them to stop, um, and I'm far-more likely to miss, and so we shoot
9 center mass primarily because it's the easiest thing to hit.
10 Brian Davidson: Okay, uh, what about the idea of, uh, if an officer was confronted
11 with a deadly weapon, with a firearm for example, using some other
12 tool like, uh, pepper spray, asp baton, taser, something like that?
13 Scott Willadsen: Uh, against a deadly threat? Or just, –
14 Brian Davidson: Yes, a deadly threat.
15 Scott Willadsen: So the reason we don't do that is, quite frankly, because they, um,
16 their success rate is really low. Pepper spray, anecdotally, is roughly
17 effective 50 percent of the time. Um, depending on which company's
18 tryin' to sell it to you, they'll give you different numbers, but of
19 course, they're tryin' to sell a product. But if you look up law
20 enforcement reports of whether pepper spray was effective on an
21 actual person who was trying to either cause harm or resist arrest, it's
22 less than 50 percent. Pepper spray works great on people who are
23 passively resisting, which is, by the way, you're not, not who we
24 should be using on, but it works great on them. People who are
25 resisting arrest, it just depends. Um, tasers, as great as they can be,
26 don't always work, uh, and one of the faults with the taser is, once I
27 shoot it, I don't get a follow up. If it doesn't work the first time,
375 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 depending on which taser I'm using, I may not get a chance to reload
2 that thing and fire it again before the deadly threat has, uh, decided
3 to use deadly force on me or another person. Uh, tasers, most of the
4 older tasers, or even the new tasers, the X26Ps, only have one
5 cartridge. To reload the cartridge on a taser requires me to recognize
6 that it didn't work, which takes a moment in time. Uh, if you've
7 either done something that you expected to work and when it didn't
8 work, there's usually a moment of, did that not work before you
9 realize it didn't work. Then usually what we try to do is try it again,
10 and then when we realize okay, this isn't working, several seconds
11 have gone by. Then they have to pinch the sides of the cartridge,
12 remove the cartridge, let that go, get a new cartridge out of a pouch
13 on our belt, which is not well designed to get it out of. It's not like,
14 um, the magazine pouches on our belt. Get it out, line it up exactly
15 right, click it in and then shoot it again. That takes, when we've done
16 training, 6 to 7 seconds, and if you think about how many rounds a
17 suspect can fire, that's pretty much 35 rounds on average. So, um, we
18 don't teach them to use less-lethal tools against a lethal threat
19 because Number 1, the success rate's really, really low, Number 2,
20 it's not proportional to the subject that I'm dealing with. The, the
21 subject I'm dealing with is trying to seriously injure or kill me. It
22 doesn't make sense that I'm trying to use a tool that's only designed
23 to incapacitate and make them discouraged from using, um, like
24 resisting my arrest or using force, um, especially when they, they fail
25 so often.
376 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. Okay, uh, what, if anything do you instruct the cadets
2 about, um, I guess their reliance on their ballistic vests to protect
3 them during a dealy force encounter?
4 Scott Willadsen: We don't, we don't, the ballistic vest is a, is a nice kind of like
5 insurance policy, but we don't ever teach them to rely on their
6 ballistic vests. Um, in fact, let me use a recent example of an officer
7 who I knew, uh, Sergeant Jason Gooding from, um, the Seaside
8 Police Department was killed with one round from I wanna say a 25-
9 caliber pistol at close range. It managed to miss the vest, and just
10 because of the, the angle it entered the body, killed him within a
11 minute.
12 Brian Davidson: And where did it strike him?
13 Scott Willadsen: Uh, it actually struck him under the vest, but at the angle, it went up
14 into his body cavity, and so it went under the vest. Those vests don't
15 cover very much. We never, ever, ever teach them to rely on the vest
16 as, as like you can just wade into gunfire. We never teach that, just
17 because the vest is like a let's hope it stops a round from entering
18 your lungs and heart, but you cannot count on that. Umm, too many
19 officers have gotten killed wearing vests. Uh, the other reason for
20 that is, is, um, going back to some of my **** stuff, in the naïve
21 shooter study, an untrained person is actually more likely to aim for
22 the head or the neck. Uh, untrained people, um, aim for the head or
23 the neck just, just intuitively, and then we actually end up training
24 that out of them, having them shoot center mass, because we teach
25 them that it moves a lot less. But, uh, you can't put a vest on the head
26 or the neck, which is very likely to kill you, and the vest just doesn't
27 stop rounds from coming in around the rib cage area, from the sides
377 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 or underneath. On top of that, the pelvic area of the body has got a
2 ton of, um, blood vessels in there, there's still some organs and stuff
3 in there. It could still kill you, but the last thing is, and this is the
4 callous way of putting it, Oregon law doesn't require that. I can use
5 deadly physical force to stop somebody from causing me serious
6 physical harm, it doesn't even have to cause death, so even if I knew
7 they were just gonna shoot me in the foot, I don't have to let them
8 shoot me in the foot because that's not likely to kill me. I can stop
9 them from causing me serious bodily harm.
10 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. Okay. Um, kind of going back to the other thing you said,
11 uh, what, you know, from a threat assessment point of view, uh, the
12 fact that a, uh, like for exam, if offers were, officers were
13 confronting a suspect, their firearms were drawn and they were
14 giving a suspect, um, commands, –
15 Scott Willadsen: 'Kay.
16 Brian Davidson: – the fact that that suspect is not complying with those commands at
17 gunpoint, I mean, what, what is the implication back to the officer in
18 your, in your mind?
19 Scott Willadsen: So, uh, the answer to that question is, it depends. It all, it always
20 depends. There's, there's always an "it depends" answer. Um, what
21 we, what we shy away from is ever teaching the officers that there's
22 a blanket you're pointing a gun at them and told them to do this, they
23 didn't do it, you get to use deadly physical force-
24 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
25 Scott Willadsen: It's never that simple. It depends on the totality of the circumstances,
26 so, uh, you know, if my verbal command is drop the gun and they're
27 pointing a gun at me, then obvious, you know, that one seems pretty
378 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 self explanatory. In that particular instance, they don't have to wait
2 and be like, all right, did you hear me, did you understand what I
3 said, okay, let me see if he's gonna do it. The longer you wait, the
4 more likely you are to get shot, possibly killed, so actually under the
5 law, under federal law, they're not even required to give a verbal
6 command in that instance. The other end of the spectrum, of course,
7 is, if I, if I give somebody a command to do something like turn
8 around, put your hands together behind your back, and I'm tryin' to
9 arrest them on a shoplifting and they don't, I can't just punch 'em in
10 the face or rip my taser out and taser them, I need to give them some
11 sort of opportunity. So the more danger there is to us, the less, um,
12 reliance on verbal commands and, and the less we use verbal
13 commands as a, um, an assessment for their compliance is actually
14 one of the things. So it's actually counterintuitive. We don't teach
15 them that their verbal commands should be used as an assessment
16 tool when they're dealing with a deadly threat. It's just one of the
17 things that, if I tell them this and it happens to work, great, but you
18 shouldn't be giving them verbal commands because I'm trying this,
19 uh, give-and-take assessment in this moment in time when a person's
20 pointing a gun at you.
21 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. 'Kay, uh, and, um, on a slightly different topic, uh, how
22 many, in your experience, and, and as a firearms instructor I guess in
23 particular, how many, um, rounds, uh, would you expect an officer
24 to be able to fire, uh, for example, in a second, uh, in a scenario
25 where they were using deadly force?
26 Scott Willadsen: Uh, so the first question would be, is this coming from the holster or
27 once the gun's –
379 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: No drawn-
2 Scott Willadsen: – already out
3 Brian Davidson: Yeah, the gun is drawn and up and trained.
4 Scott Willadsen: The average is five.
5 Brian Davidson: Five rounds fired per second.
6 Scott Willadsen: Yeah. Um, that's about the average, four to five.
7 Brian Davidson: Okay.
8 Scott Willadsen: Yeah. A few people, depending on the gun, depending on their level
9 of training, I've seen them get all the way up to seven nor eight, uh,
10 but that's pretty rare and the av, the average would be five in
11 1 second.
12 Brian Davidson: 'Kay. Again, the training is to stop the threat.
13 Scott Willadsen: Yes.
14 Brian Davidson: Okay. Um, uh, questions from the grand jurors.
15 Other Speaker: Um, so we have the Second Amendment so a lot people have guns
16 on the street.
17 Scott Willadsen: Yes.
18 Other Speaker: Um, how are officers trained to deal with that if they see a gun not
19 being necessarily used but they just see someone has a gun.
20 Scott Willadsen: Uh, the answer to the question is it defense? Um –
21 Other Speaker: I figured.
22 Scott Willadsen: – uh, it would depend on you know, what's the totality of the
23 circumstances, so if I have, um, I'll give you this as a real world
24 example that actually happened to me which is I'm sitting in a
25 Chinese restaurant eating dinner with my, um, my wife and kids and
26 there's a person sitting in the booth across from me who I can
27 obviously see he's wearing a gun in a holster, um, open carry and I
380 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 can see it and he's eating Chinese food. In that instance a police
2 officer, even if they were called on it might not even do anything
3 'cause it'd be like what else is going on. Well, they're eating Chinese
4 food. Okay. Well they have a gun, they have a legal right to have a
5 gun. So there will be no crime being committed versus, uh, I show
6 up at a bar fight and which is, you know, I know what's basically
7 happening here and people are yelling and screaming and punching
8 each other and throwing each other on the ground and kicking and a
9 gun flies out, that's unfortunately for the Second Amendment person,
10 the person who's carrying a weapon this is probably the wrong time
11 and place to be carrying that gun because the officer doesn't have the
12 time to rationally evaluate and be like wait, are you like expressing
13 your rights or you about to kill me. Um, here's one of the things I
14 will say to somebody who is also a civilian, uh, I, you know, I'm a
15 civilian when I'm not at work and I carry a gun off duty and one of
16 the things I would say is it's also incumbent upon the person who
17 carries a gun for, you know, to protect themselves or their Second
18 Amendment rights to not bring that gun into an incident or where
19 there's potentially gonna be an incident where bad things are gonna
20 happen so for example when I know my friends are gonna go get a
21 few beers I don't bring a gun with me because I know that
22 unfortunately bad things sometimes happen in bars far more likely
23 than they happened in Chinese food restaurants and so I, I make that
24 decision to leave my gun at home. Um, but as far as specifically
25 what we teach them to do. We actually run some scenarios where
26 they do encounter a Second Amendment person, uh, the person is
27 carrying a, sometimes they're carrying a handgun, sometimes they're
381 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 carrying a shotgun. It's in a holster. They're not holding onto with
2 their hands. They're walking down the street or if it's a shotgun
3 they've got it like in the military style, um, parade side carry position
4 and when the officer confronts them they are very low key. One of
5 the first things that, that we want them to do is evaluate the
6 intentions of the person so when they contact that person they're like
7 hey, I got a call about a person and they're like hey, officer, no big
8 deal, I, I got a concealed weapons permit, uh, I, I'm a believer in the
9 Second Amendment, I'm just expressing my rights and so we want to
10 make sure that in that case that you know, that person is, is not kinda
11 overreacting to the officer's presence. Um, we do sometimes test the
12 officers and give them a person who's a little more confrontational
13 but even then they don't reach for the weapon. Um, in those cases
14 where the person would be like listen, I have a legal right to my gun
15 and they started reaching for the weapon, if the officer were to draw
16 their gun and give firm verbal commands for them to stop moving
17 and they put their hands up we would, that's what we would
18 encourage them to do. And obviously if that person got the gun and
19 had it in their hands, and the officer used deadly physical force then
20 it would go back to that gram analysis we talked about earlier where
21 I would bring them back to did you think this person was an
22 immediate threat and if they said yeah, when they grabbed the gun
23 and they had it in their hand and they were turning towards me I
24 thought they were gonna shoot me, the fact that they had a Second
25 Amendment right to have that gun is not as relevant as the officer's
26 reasonable belief in that moment in time, um, so there's a balancing
382 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 act there. It depends on not only the actions of the officers but the
2 actions of the, the subjects who have those guns.
3 Other Speaker: Thank you.
4 Scott Willadsen: Your’re welcome.
5 Other Speaker: So one of the examples you give you talked about them pointing a
6 gun at the officer. Is there any distinction from that versus pointing a
7 gun at somebody in a crowd?
8 Scott Willadsen: Yes. Um, and again it's, it's gonna be it, it depends, uh, and it
9 depends on what the officer thought was going on so we do run a
10 couple of scenarios where the subject is actually shooting at a third
11 person or drawing a gun and pointing it at a third person. Um, some
12 of those scenarios might be a school shooting where obviously the,
13 the officers were, they had pre-knowledge that there's a school
14 shooting in progress and when they enter they're already, um,
15 prepared to deal with somebody who is going to be shooting at other
16 people. But was also do those and some, uh, domestic violence cases
17 where they come in and the person's just waiving the gun around and
18 those instances sometimes the officers will give verbal commands
19 and sometimes they won't, and again it's gonna boil down to what
20 was your belief at the moment in time when you were, you were
21 making that decision to shoot, what did you think they were tryin' to
22 do and they said I thought they were gonna shoot that lady, I don't
23 know how we say that's not reasonable. Um, we also run ones where
24 they deal with people who are suicidal and they have guns. Um, and
25 in that case they show up to a person who is, for example, alone, uh,
26 out in the middle of, uh, a parking lot where there's no other people
27 around and they're threatening to hurt themselves and they have a
383 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 gun and they might be waiving that gun around but they're not doing
2 it very much and they're not pointing it at anybody in which case we
3 would want the officers to slow down, uh, deescalate, use cover, get
4 distance and try and, you know, kind of calm that person down and
5 unless that person got up and became an immediate threat and started
6 pointing the gun at the officers, we would encourage them to not
7 shoot and not use force in that case. So, the answer to the question is
8 yeah, we do that, but every situation's different. If they think they're
9 pointing a gun at somebody to use it on them our officers would be
10 trained and would, and we would see it as reasonable for them to use
11 deadly physical force to them from doing that. If they think this
12 person's just waiving a gun around in the field and not threatening
13 anybody we would want them to kind of back off and evaluate if
14 they think they can do that safely.
15 Other Speaker: So, just to follow along with that, you know, the person who has the
16 gun –
17 Scott Willadsen: Mm hmm.
18 Other Speaker: – they have it because they think it’s for self-defense.
19 Scott Willadsen: Yes.
20 Other Speaker: And the officer, you know, may or may not know what the current
21 situation is. You're saying that the officer if they think that they're
22 just using it to shoot somebody and they don’t even know you know
23 self defense or not that's in your mind that, that may be acceptable in
24 certain situations.
25 Scott Willadsen: Yeah. In certain situations it may be. I mean the, the question of
26 acceptability, you know, there's three, there's three paths to that. Is it
27 legally acceptable is not always the same, is it morally or publicly
384 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 acceptable. Um, legally acceptable is an easier standard and we al,
2 we always start with that one because that's really where we can, we
3 can, we can draw that knowledge out of the courts, we know what
4 those court rulings have been. We've been looking at court rulings
5 since 1989 that have to do with this. So, we have a lot of data that
6 show us what the courts think about that type of situation. Now, as
7 far as whether the officers moral code allows them to do that, that's
8 an answer we, we can't give them. Um, and then whether or not a
9 public thinks that's true, we, we teach classes on what's called police
10 legitimacy you know, and unfortunately sometimes we run into, you
11 know, we run into a wall where kinda like what we think was
12 reasonable versus what the public thinks is reasonable, they clash
13 and, and it's always based on a perception of who was there at the
14 time. The problem with whether or not the person had a legal right to
15 have a gun is always gonna be balanced against what did the officer
16 think that they were dealing with when they showed up, uh, so if I
17 get a report of a, uh, and I've actually responded to this case so I'm
18 just gonna use it from my own personal experience, uh, I have a
19 report of a, of a possible home burglary in progress, uh, the
20 homeowner is, is, and, and they let us know this on the phone, they
21 said homeowners armed and is currently in the home, um, dealing
22 with what they, what they think is a burglar, uh, and then as we're
23 responding we hear shots fired. Uh, we get a report from the phone
24 call that, that the wife who's on the phone said oh my god,
25 somebody's shot in the house so when we show up we know two
26 things, uh, or at least we think we know two things. We think there's
27 a burglar in the house. We don't know anything about them other
385 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 than they are not supposed to be there, and we know there is an
2 owner in the house who has a gun. So in that case we're gonna be a
3 lot more cautious about what we do. We're gonna go in there slowly
4 and we're gonna be really announcing ourselves, saying things like
5 police, hey, I need to see your hands. Who is in here right now? Uh,
6 because I know for a fact the homeowner is in there and they're
7 armed. You balance that against I have a burglary in progress, we
8 had a burglary alarm going off. We don't know if there's anybody
9 there or not and, uh, and we show up and I start announcing police,
10 hey, police, the police are here. Everyone show me your hands, and I
11 go around the corner and there's a guy with a gun and he's pointing it
12 at me, I don't know whether he's the homeowner or whether he's a
13 burglar, and quite frankly I don't have time to figure that out at that
14 moment in time. I announced myself before I got there, I was being
15 as loud as I could. I did the best job I could and if I come around the
16 corner and see this person, they're probably gonna get shot and if it
17 turns out later it was the homeowner, that is a horrible accident and I
18 would feel very bad about that, but at the same time I don't know
19 what else to do about it. We don't, you know, we can only train for
20 so many things before we get into the realm of we're expecting our
21 officers to be able to see the future or read minds and so we just have
22 to make the best, the best decisions we can given the information
23 that we have.
24 Brian Davidson: Let me ask you this, um –
25 Scott Willadsen: Yeah.
26 Brian Davidson: – Mr. Willadsen. It is fair to say that the standard the officers are
27 trained to is, uh, and held to is, the information they could
386 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 reasonably po, possessed at the time they were required to make the
2 decision. You don’t hold officer's responsible for things that they
3 didn’t or couldn't have known in trying to make a decision?
4 Scott Willadsen: Yeah. That's a good point. Um, part of the objective reasonable
5 standard that comes from the Graham v. Connor ruling, is actually
6 that you can't use 20/20 hindsight against the officers. You can only
7 use the information that the officers had at the time when they made
8 that decision to shoot, or when they made that decision to use force.
9 No matter what that force is whether it's, it's deadly all the way down
10 to anything else. Um, yes, we teach what's called the object, or the,
11 uh, sorry, the reasonable officer standard. That comes from Graham
12 v. Connor and, and the Fourth Amendment, and what that means is
13 what would a reasonable officer with the same amount of training
14 and experience with the same information would they have done a
15 similar thing in that similar situation. And, and that's where that
16 reasonable officer standard comes from. So yeah, we, uh, we very
17 much, it, it always comes up. You know, we, we have these moral
18 debates with officers, but it does always come up that you can only
19 do the best you can with the information that you had at the time,
20 um, we call it satisficing. It's, it's, it's a combination of a satisfactory
21 decision and a, and a, and a, um, I can't remember the other word
22 right now, uh, sacrificing decision and we, and they're combined
23 together and it's, it's the best I can do in a limited amount of time
24 with a limited amount of information. Sometimes we're wrong and,
25 and that's unfortunate. And it's a horrible accident but there's no real
26 good way around it.
27 Brian Davidson: Okay, additionalquestions?
387 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Other Speaker: One, one more.
2 Scott Willadsen: Yeah.
3 Other Speaker: You mentioned, uh, taking cover –
4 Scott Willadsen: Mm hmm.
5 Other Speaker: – um, versus firing. Is there any protocol associated with that or
6 ****?
7 Scott Willadsen: Yeah. number 1, it's gonna have to do with, you know, what, what's
8 my situation. Is there, are there, are there people in danger. What do
9 I think I'm dealing with. Can I safely get to that cover position. Um,
10 you know it's gonna depend. As always. Uh, one of my friends, uh,
11 one of my fends, friend's a fellow trainers, he was involved in a
12 suicide by cop scenario, they ended up not having to shoot this
13 person, this person was, uh, reportedly suicidal in a parking lot
14 possibly armed. They knew that information ahead of time. There
15 were no other people in the parking lot so when they saw him they
16 were able to from a distance put barriers in cover and, and, uh, walls
17 and cars in between them because they kinda knew what they were
18 getting into and that person did end up having a gun, and because
19 they were able to, uh, slow things down, they were able to talk him
20 out of it and put the gun down. But the officers knew a lot before
21 they went into that situation. They were already a long ways away
22 from the person. They knew that there was no one else around and
23 they could see him from a distance when they approached and they
24 could see that there were plenty of barriers in between them. That's
25 not the same as an officer who is in the middle of, um, like we see in
26 this video here, dealing with, you know, what they think is a crazy
27 like brawl situation, you're right there trying to physically stop them
388 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 and then all of a sudden a person jumps up and they've got a gun and
2 they're like 5 to 10 feet in front of you, I don't have time to be like
3 wait right there. I'm going over there where my car is so in that
4 situation we would anticipate them to draw the gun and use deadly
5 physical force. Um, and if they could move so they would be less
6 likely to get shot that'd be great but, you know, every situation’s
7 different.
8 Brian Davidson: Any additional questions for Mr. Willadsen?
9 Other Speaker: No.
10 Brian Davidson: No. Okay. Thank you Mr. Willadsen.
11 Scott Willadsen: You bet.
12 Brian Davidson: Uh, we'll go off the record. 'Kay. We are back on the record and our
13 final witness, uh, is Officer Shawn McKenzie, Officer McKenzie.
14 Okay, and if you’ll stand right next to that black chair and raise your
15 right hand and they will swear you in.
16 Shawn McKenzie: 'Kay.
17 Other Speaker: Do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you are about to
18 give in the matter pending before this Grand Jury shall be the truth,
19 the whole truth and nothing but the truth?
20 Shawn McKenzie: Yes I do.
21 Brian Davidson: 'Kay. Go ahead and have a seat. And if you could ah, state and spell
22 your full name for us please.
23 Shawn McKenzie: Shawn Allen McKenzie, S-H-A-W-N Allen, A-L-L-E-N, McKenzie
24 M-C-K-E-N-Z-I-E.
25 Brian Davidson: And, uh, how are –
26 Other Speaker: Sorry.
27 Brian Davidson: – That’s all right. How are you currently employed?
389 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Shawn McKenzie: I'm currently employed as a police officer for Portland State
2 University.
10
11 Brian Davidson: Okay. Um, and, uh, did you attend college?
12 Shawn McKenzie: Yes I did at Portland State University.
13 Brian Davidson: And did you obtain a degree?
14 Shawn McKenzie: I did. I obtained a degree in political science in 2003.
15 Brian Davidson: In 2003. Uh, and do you have any, uh, military background?
16 Shawn McKenzie: I do. Uh, I served both in the active Army for 4 years and I'm
17 currently serving in the Oregon Army National Guard for
18 approximately the last 15 years.
19 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. And what rank did you obtain?
20 Shawn McKenzie: I'm currently a captain.
21 Brian Davidson: And do you have a particular area of, uh, I guess what you call it,
22 MOS in the military, is that right?
23 Shawn McKenzie: Yes. I've been in the infantry the entire time.
24 Brian Davidson: All right. And were you deployed?
25 Shawn McKenzie: Yes I was, twice to Iraq.
390 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: Um, and, uh, other than your current employment with, uh, Portland
2 State University police force, what other kind of employment have
3 you had?
4 Shawn McKenzie: Uh, I've worked for Portland State for the past 10 years. The
5 previous eight was as a public safety officer.
6 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. And that's primarily worked as far as employment is
7 concerned?
8 Shawn McKenzie: Mm hmm.
9 Brian Davidson: All right. And, um, when exactly did you go to work for PSU?
10 Shawn McKenzie: Uh, 2008, once I got out of the active Army.
11 Brian Davidson: And, uh, at that time, um, if I understand correctly, uh, PSU did not
12 have a sworn armed police force, is that right?
13 Shawn McKenzie: Correct. We were considered ah, special campus security guards.
14 Brian Davidson: Uh, and did you have to go through any, uh, academy or police
15 training to have that position?
16 Shawn McKenzie: At the time, uh, the academy in Salem still offered a 2-month, uh,
17 like abbreviated academy for us, which I attended.
18 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. Uh, all right. And then, um, and so you were a, a campus
19 security officer for how many years?
20 Shawn McKenzie: Eight years.
21 Brian Davidson: And then PSU uh, uh, uh, I guess went from an unarmed, unsworn
22 police force sort of a security force to, uh, an armed and, uh, sworn
23 police force in what year again?
24 Shawn McKenzie: Uh, the approximate year would have been 2015. I think they went
25 through the whole process in 2014.
26 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. And, uh, you transitioned from ah, unsworn to sworn is
27 that right?
391 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Shawn McKenzie: Correct.
2 Brian Davidson: And did you have to attend the Port, ah, Or, Oregon State Police
3 Academy again?
4 Shawn McKenzie: Yes. I did.
5 Brian Davidson: And was that the same abbreviated academy, or?
6 Shawn McKenzie: No. It was a 4-month academy.
7 Brian Davidson: All right. And when did you attend that academy?
8 Shawn McKenzie: Uh, it was late, or the fall term of 2016.
9 Brian Davidson: And what happened when, uh, you completed the academy?
10 Shawn McKenzie: I graduated and went through what they call FTEP which is a field
11 training and evaluation program.
12 Brian Davidson: With PSU
13 Shawn McKenzie: Correct.
14 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. Uh, and, uh, you did you complete that program?
15 Shawn McKenzie: Yes. I did.
16 Brian Davidson: Now from my understanding from some previous testimony is that
17 ah, the supervisors with PSU, some sergeants as well as some of the
18 supervisory folks, uh, are former, uh, and experienced, uh, police
19 officers from other jurisdictions. Is that right?
20 Shawn McKenzie: That's correct
21 Brian Davidson: For example Sergeant Schilling, uh, is, a 20-plus-year veteran from
22 Portland.
23 Shawn McKenzie: Mm hmm.
24 Brian Davidson: Uh, is Willie Halliburton one of your sergeants as well?
25 Shawn McKenzie: Yes. He is.
26 Brian Davidson: Okay. Former police sergeant for the Portland.
27 Shawn McKenzie: Yes.
392 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: And were those the people who put you through field training or
2 was, was it somebody else?
3 Shawn McKenzie: Uh, Sergeant Schilling was the one in charge of that field training
4 program, and then other officers were, eh, what they call FTOs.
5 Brian Davidson: Field training officer.
6 Shawn McKenzie: Yeah.
7 Brian Davidson: All right. And so when did you get off of, uh, field-training status?
8 Shawn McKenzie: Uh, I believe it was that following June, 'cause it's a 4-month
9 process. I graduated form the academy in February.
10 Brian Davidson: So June 2000 and?
11 Shawn McKenzie: Uh, 17.
12 Brian Davidson: 17? Okay. And, uh, since your time with PSU Police Force, um,
13 have you had, always had the same assignments, uh, or shift, or has
14 it varied?
15 Shawn McKenzie: Uh, I've mainly been on graveyard since.
16 Brian Davidson: And was that the shift you were working, uh, at the time of this
17 incident?
18 Shawn McKenzie: Yes. It was.
19 Brian Davidson: And what are the hours of that shift?
20 Shawn McKenzie: Um, they've changed since I've been on it, but, uh, they were usually
21 7:00 o’clock at night to 7:00 in the morning, when we were on 12s.
22 Brian Davidson: So 12-hour shift.
23 Shawn McKenzie: Mm hmm.
24 Brian Davidson: All right. Uh, and, uh, how many officers or units typically would
25 operate during that shift for PSU?
26 Shawn McKenzie: Uh, typically two on, but there are times when there's only a single
27 officer on.
393 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: And when there's two on, are they operating two different cars or
2 one car as a partner car?
3 Shawn McKenzie: Um, it depends. It also depends on the maintenance of the cars. Um,
4 uh, the day of this incident there was only one operational patrol car.
5 Brian Davidson: All right. Um, so on this particular day, um, you were working a
6 two-man car with another officer.
7 Shawn McKenzie: Uh, correct.
8 Brian Davidson: And who was that other officer?
9 Shawn McKenzie: Officer Dewey.
10 Brian Davidson: All right. And so this, uh, incident, uh, is, uh, as we know occurred,
11 uh, in the very early hours of June 29th of this year, but you had
12 actually come on shift, uh, the evening prior on the 28th.
13 Shawn McKenzie: Correct.
14 Brian Davidson: All right. Um, and, uh, I have to ask you, uh, at the time of this, you
15 were on shift, did you consumed any alcohol or illicit drugs?
16 Shawn McKenzie: No. I did not.
17 Brian Davidson: All right. And the shift up to the point of this incident, had there
18 been anything unusual about it or had that been pretty typical?
19 Shawn McKenzie: I would say there was nothin' unusual, but we had had some contacts
20 with people, but in the University district that's pretty common.
21 Brian Davidson: Contacts? You mean arrests, or?
22 Shawn McKenzie: No. Um, uh, people, like in the hotel parking lot, um, with a bicycle,
23 um, just people around the area-
24 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
25 Shawn McKenzie: Talking to 'em.
26 Brian Davidson: Okay. So, um, how were you, uh, dressed that day for work?
394 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Shawn McKenzie: Uh, I was in my normal duty uniform with a badge showing my
2 name tape, a hat on that says police, um, we have external vests, um,
3 a Taser on my leg.
4 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. Okay. And, uh, what kind of vehicle were you operating?
5 Shawn McKenzie: Uh, our patrol vehicle which is white and green and it says Portland
6 State University Police along the side.
7 Brian Davidson: All right. Uh, so, uh, what were you doing at the time, um, you, uh,
8 came upon this disturbance that you and Officer Dewey ended up
9 getting involved in? How did you end up there?
10 Shawn McKenzie: Um.
11 Brian Davidson: Do you need a map?
12 Shawn McKenzie: Yes, please if I could have a map.
13 Brian Davidson: So, um, this is static map. This will launch a Google map.
14 Shawn McKenzie: Okay.
15 Brian Davidson: And I'll give you control of that.
16 Shawn McKenzie: All right.
17 Brian Davidson: Just ****.
18 Shawn McKenzie: Okay. Um, so Officer Dewey and myself had been patrolling
19 together that night, and at some point, I'm not sure exactly what
20 time, he decided to take a break at the office which we go down
21 here.
22 Brian Davidson: If you need to zoom out, feel free to do that.
23 Shawn McKenzie: Okay. It's right here. There we go. So our office is located right in,
24 right here at this building. So I, I dropped him off, and I continued to
25 drive down Broadway which is south, or over here is the South Park
26 blocks. Um, as I drove around, I went into this, it's kind, almost like
27 a la, a loop here. As you can see, it doesn't continue on because of
395 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 the South Park blocks. So I patrolled down here, took a right, which
2 is heading west on Southwest Jackson, and then down through this
3 loop, and I came back around, um, at which point I saw two of the
4 individuals that were involved in this incident at that corner right
5 where the arrow is located. Um, at the time I thought they were two
6 people waiting for a cab. Also given the time of morning, I would
7 say it's approximately 01, so the bars are startin' to close as well.
8 And I thought that they were friendly to each given their close
9 proximity to one another, didn't really think anything of it. It looked
10 like they were wearing tee shirts and shorts. And then I continued on
11 onto Southwest 6 and then patrol – I can zoom out even more here –
12 continued on to patrol the campus area. And we do have vehicle
13 break-ins and things like that late at night in Parking Structure 3
14 which is located right here. So, my main goal is to also go through
15 that area again. And during that time after I'm patrolling up through
16 here, my dispatch informs me that there is an unwanted person
17 wearing a green shirt inside the University Point, uh, building which
18 is a housing building, and it also has classrooms inside. Uh, I –
19 Brian Davidson: Can you identify that building on the map for us?
20 Shawn McKenzie: Sure. Let's see here. It is, here we go, it's this one with the, uh, green
21 roof right here. Uh, so when that call came out, I then called back to
22 Officer Dewey to let him know that I was gonna pick him up at the
23 office to continue on with the call because there's somebody. And,
24 given the circumstances of this, of this building it's also being called
25 in by a 24-hour security guard that is manning the desk inside of that
26 rather large building. Uh, I picked up Officer Dewey – now we'll go
27 back here – at our office here and then proceeded south again on
396 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Southwest Broadway at which time we make it to this intersection.
2 The lights green. I proceed through the, the intersection, and
3 basically as soon as we – and this is a, a 2-lane road so we're gonna
4 be towards the south side of the street on College – I see a group of
5 people roughly in this area, and Officer Dewey says they're fighting.
6 I then stopped the vehicle. Let's see if I can start to zoom in in here.
7 Oop too far.
8 Brian Davidson: That's fine. If you also, you wanna use street view.
9 Shawn McKenzie: Okay.
10 Brian Davidson: Uh, if that’s helpful you can do that of course.
11 Shawn McKenzie: Okay. So, let's see if I can get it to rotate here. I don't really wanna
12 go that way. Here we go. Okay. There we go. Okay. So, I'm a little
13 bit forward of this. Officer Dewey is getting out of the car, and I'm –
14 Brian Davidson: Well, let me, uh, Let me uh stop you –
15 Shawn McKenzie: Uh huh.
16 Brian Davidson: –before you continue. So you were on your way to another call.
17 Shawn McKenzie: Correct.
18 Brian Davidson: Uh, and you see a, what, you ss, seem to be a fight in this location.
19 And you, and you decide to, I guess, not, uh, proceed to the other
20 call and to stop and deal with this.
21 Shawn McKenzie: Right. Because the decision is one, is somebody who is trespassing,
22 and again, there's a security guard that’s monitoring the situation.
23 This is an ongoing, or a altercation right in front of us.
24 Brian Davidson: Okay. So the decision was made to divert from that call, and to deal
25 with this fight.
26 Shawn McKenzie: Right.
397 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: All right. Did you with then, uh, Officer Dewey, talk about a plan, or
2 what it, what was the – ?
3 Shawn McKenzie: No. No. No plan, just they're fighting. In my head I'm formulating a
4 plan of I want them to disperse from this area and get out of there
5 because at the time it looked like just a big group of people holding
6 onto each other. And, and then what really clicked in my mind is you
7 can see this metal door right here. Um, a group of folks smashed into
8 that door with enough force to make noise from where I am at on the
9 street.
10 Brian Davidson: You heard that?
11 Shawn McKenzie: I heard that.
12 Brian Davidson: Okay. Um, is this, uh, an unusual type of a call, or situation for you
13 as a PSU officer to, I guess, encounter a, a fight of this sort in the
14 area of the Cheerful Tortoise?
15 Shawn McKenzie: Um, more recently I would say there hasn't been any, as many fights
16 out of that bar. Um, in the past it's not uncommon to hear calls or be
17 around when there's a fight that originated from there.
18 Brian Davidson: Mmm. Have you responded to similar incidences before?
19 Shawn McKenzie: Um, similar instances but not the same circumstances.
20 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. All right. But your goal was to disperse the group, stop
21 the altercation.
22 Shawn McKenzie: Right. And if anybody wanted to discuss what had happened
23 afterwards then speak to then without tons of people right there.
24 Brian Davidson: Okay. So, uh, what action did you take? Did you stop? Did you drive
25 and park? What'd you do?
26 Shawn McKenzie: Uh, I slowed the vehicle down, and I was, ss, ss, so back up, I
27 slowed the vehicle down and stopped. Dewey says they’re fighting.
398 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 He's exiting the car, and I'm telling him I'm gonna call dispatch
2 because now I have to let 'em know what we're doing. We're not
3 going to the original call. So, I get on the radio in the car and say
4 we're gonna be out with a group that's fighting on the north ss, side
5 of Broadway which it, meaning Broadway Housing, which is the
6 building that we're looking at.
7 Brian Davidson: The one with the Chipotle at the ground level?
8 Shawn McKenzie: Yep.
9 Brian Davidson: Okay. What happens next?
10 Shawn McKenzie: Uh, Officer Dewey closes the door. I'm also thinking, even though I
11 want them to disperse, I'm also thinking we may need to get
12 additional units here given the number of people that are involved.
13 So, I –
14 Brian Davidson: And do you have an estimation about how many people were
15 involved in this –?
16 Shawn McKenzie: I would say active participants anywhere from five to ten, and there's
17 people will cell phones out videotaping. There's people running
18 around. So it's hard to say who's actively engaged in the fight, and
19 who is kinda on the periphery of the fight.
20 Brian Davidson: Okay. So you're calling for back up at this point.
21 Shawn McKenzie: Yeah. I'm, I'm, I don't know what I say to dispatch. I say we may
22 need additional units out here. And my thought, at least my thought
23 process is I'm gonna move the car into this part of the sidewalk here
24 so that follow-on units can also get into the area.
25 Brian Davidson: Okay.
26 Shawn McKenzie: Okay. Um, once I pulled the car up onto the curb, I get out of the car
27 and then activate my body camera which is a button that I had, I
399 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 push and it says, let's out a beep to let me know that it's now
2 recording. And there was also a red light. Um, the body cam footage
3 also records 30 seconds prior to me hitting that button, but there's
4 usually no, well there, there is no sound until when I actually hit the
5 button.
6 Brian Davidson: Okay.
7 Shawn McKenzie: And then –
8 Brian Davidson: So you exit the vehicle.
9 Shawn McKenzie: Mm hmm.
10 Brian Davidson: Uh, uh, do you know ha, how long after Dewey exited the vehicle
11 that you, eh, parked and exited the vehicle?
12 Shawn McKenzie: I have no idea how much times passes from him getting out of the
13 vehicle and me parking.
14 Brian Davidson: Okay. So what do you observe or hear when you step out –
15 Other Speaker: Sorry, I have a quick question.
16 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
17 Other Speaker: Did were, uh, did you have the lights on, or sirens or anything?
18 Shawn McKenzie: No.
19 Other Speaker: No lights s-, okay.
20 Shawn McKenzie: There were no lights or sirens on. No.
21 Brian Davidson: And why, why is that, just out of curiosity?
22 Shawn McKenzie: Um, I just didn't think about it at the time.
23 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
24 Shawn McKenzie: And also, if you want somebody to ss, stop, lights and sirens
25 indicates that a reasonable person to that means they're being
26 stopped. I really didn't want to stop an entire crowd of people.
400 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: All right. Okay. Um, any other questions along tho, that line? Okay.
2 Um, so you step out. You activate your body-worn camera.
3 Shawn McKenzie: Mm hmm.
4 Brian Davidson: Um, and then, uh, what happened next?
5 Shawn McKenzie: Um, it looks like the people are starting to move. Let's see if I can
6 rotate us. Oops wrong way. Uh, it looks like the people are starting
7 to move away from us down the sidewalk, and I'm, as I rounding the
8 front of the car, I'm walking forward similar to this sayin' get the
9 fuck outta here, like yelling it loudly.
10 Brian Davidson: And why did you choose to use profanity just out of curiosity?
11 Shawn McKenzie: Uh, stress.
12 Brian Davidson: Stress, what do you mean?
13 Shawn McKenzie: It, it was a stressful situation, aspeople running around and, and
14 fighting, and I don't really want to be engaged in a one-on-one fight.
15 I want them to continue to move that way and continue to go that
16 way.
17 Brian Davidson: Okay. And do you see where Officer Dewey is at this point?
18 Shawn McKenzie: Um, I say get the fuck outta here a couple times, and I'm aware from
19 hearing him off to my right, that he informs me one of 'em has a gun.
20 Brian Davidson: Do you remember what he said exactly?
21 Shawn McKenzie: That's what I, I remember him saying one of 'em has a gun.
22 Brian Davidson: Okay.
23 Shawn McKenzie: That's, and when that happens, now my stress level has come up one
24 more notch, but I don't see a gun anywhere. I just see a bunch of
25 people out there, and I'm looking at people's hands and waistbands to
26 see if, if I can locate the gun. Uh, within moments of that happening,
27 I see two large men, uh, kind of moving back towards me, almost
401 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 like somebody was tryin' to bear hug tackle somebody moving this
2 way, and they plomp down on the ground. Um, I see this. Um, I'm
3 worried if the person on the bottom, if they have any injuries from a
4 fall like that. So, I start moving towards them and say, get the fuck
5 off of him.
6 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
7 Shawn McKenzie: Um, at that point their, their heads are towards me, and they
8 basically, the guy on the top rolls off of him. I see both of 'em, but
9 all of a sudden I, I see the guy, a black gentleman in a, a darker-
10 colored tee shirt with a gun in a holster on his chest like this.
11 Brian Davidson: And, and where was he when you first noticed that?
12 Shawn McKenzie: He was on the ground, like, they have just fallen, and he just flopped
13 off on the ground like this.
14 Brian Davidson: And is he on his back? On his side?
15 Shawn McKenzie: He's on his back.
16 Brian Davidson: He's on his back.
17 Shawn McKenzie: So, a lot of thoughts run through my head at this time. Obviously my
18 stress level's higher. I don't know why, but I can assume that these
19 two are fighting over that gun. So, I don't know who the gun belongs
20 to. I know I need to start getting distance. And let’s see, so this
21 truck's in the way of the image; however, that's a loading dock area
22 that goes back to the main door to the housing area. And there's
23 actually a pathway over here that will exit out onto 6 Avenue. I'm
24 aware of this, and I know that I can use this area as cover. So, in my
25 mind, I'm trying to get back over to that corner.
26 Brian Davidson: For cover?
27 Shawn McKenzie: For cover.
402 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
2 Shawn McKenzie: Um, **** –
3 Brian Davidson: Maybe, if we can maybe stop just a second.
4 Shawn McKenzie: Okay.
5 Brian Davidson: Um, just, just maybe a little more detail about the gun, so, this
6 individual falls backwards onto his back, –
7 Shawn McKenzie: Mm hmm.
8 Brian Davidson: – and that when you, that's the first time you see the gun.
9 Shawn McKenzie: Correct.
10 Brian Davidson: And you, you did something with your hands. Can you show us what
11 it is? And what did you see him doing with the gun?
12 Shawn McKenzie: I, I only saw, when I fir, saw him on the ground is the handle of the
13 gun, like this, and still in the holster like this.
14 Brian Davidson: All right. So at that point you saw it was still in the holster.
15 Shawn McKenzie: Yes.
16 Brian Davidson: Okay.
17 Shawn McKenzie: So, I see that, and there again, in my brain I don't know, I perceive
18 that they're fighting over this gun. And I don't know who the gun
19 belongs to. I just know there's two people what appears to be
20 fighting over a gun.
21 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
22 Shawn McKenzie: I wanna move back to cover and give him the opportunity ta put the
23 gun down.
24 Brian Davidson: Okay. Do you, had you drawn your own firearm at this point?
25 Shawn McKenzie: I'm starting to draw my firearm as I'm moving back.
26 Brian Davidson: Okay. And do you know where and what, um, your partner's doing at
27 that point?
403 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Shawn McKenzie: I do not know exactly what he's doing.
2 Brian Davidson: Do you know where he is in relation to where you are?
3 Shawn McKenzie: I still perceive him to be off to my right.
4 Brian Davidson: Okay. So you're beginning to draw. You're moving back looking for
5 cover. Tell us what happens next.
6 Shawn McKenzie: Um, before I can make it to that area, I'm approximately right in
7 here.
8 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
9 Shawn McKenzie: Um, the gentleman on the ground is now up and squared off to me.
10 So, I'm here. And the water bottle would be kind of how I perceive
11 him at.
12 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
13 Shawn McKenzie: But squared up to me.
14 Brian Davidson: And you think he's facing you?
15 Shawn McKenzie: Yes.
16 Brian Davidson: Okay. And do you know where the gun is at that point?
17 Shawn McKenzie: It's still in a hand, the other hand on the holster.
18 Brian Davidson: Okay. And at this point had you or your partner, and to your
19 recollection, started giving him any verbal commands?
20 Shawn McKenzie: Uh, when I see him up with the gun like this, I start, I've got my gun
21 out like this, and I'm yelling at him drop the gun.
22 Brian Davidson: And, uh, did you yell it once? More than once?
23 Shawn McKenzie: Uh, at least a couple times.
24 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. Okay. And do you know if your partner is making similar
25 directives?
404 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Shawn McKenzie: Um, when this is going on, um, I know that my body's startin' to get,
2 like, the adrenalin's startin' ta, ta kick in, and my vision is startin' to
3 go like this, and my hearing is not, like, what it’d be right now.
4 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
5 Shawn McKenzie: Um, I'm becoming more and more focused on this area because that's
6 where the weapon is.
7 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. Okay. So you're telling him to drop, you're yelling at him
8 to drop the gun at this point.
9 Shawn McKenzie: Right.
10 Brian Davidson: So what happens next?
11 Shawn McKenzie: Uh, drop the gun, drop the gun, and at some point I'm also while I'm
12 doing this glancing over to make sure I know where my, where
13 Officer Dewey is. I know he's off to my right, but I also want to
14 make sure that I'm not, that I'm perceiving exactly what I'm doing.
15 And he goes from here to here, and I see the, the barrel of the gun,
16 and –
17 Brian Davidson: So, at this point can you tell if the gun's out of the holster?
18 Shawn McKenzie: Yes.
19 Brian Davidson: And it is or is not?
20 Shawn McKenzie: It is.
21 Brian Davidson: It is out of the holster at this time.
22 Shawn McKenzie: Yes.
23 Brian Davidson: Do you see where the holster is at this point?
24 Shawn McKenzie: I do not.
25 Brian Davidson: Okay. But, the gun is in his right hand.
26 Shawn McKenzie: Right.
27 Brian Davidson: And he's extending it?
405 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Shawn McKenzie: Yes.
2 Brian Davidson: And, uh, is he, what, what, in what direction is he extending the gun?
3 Shawn McKenzie: Towards us.
4 Brian Davidson: Towards you.
5 Shawn McKenzie: Right.
6 Brian Davidson: Like more towards your partner, more towards you, or are you able
7 to really perceive it?
8 Shawn McKenzie: I couldn't perceive which one he was actually pointing it right at.
9 Brian Davidson: Okay. All right. And, um, what happened next?
10 Shawn McKenzie: Um, in my mind I'm like thinkin' I'm gonna be shot right there, and I
11 fire a couple rounds. Um, I see him fall to the ground. Uh, when I
12 see that, I saw firing. I, my next thought process is if he's wounded,
13 he can shoot at us again at the last know location we were at. So, I
14 move uh, forward into this area right here. I'm basically standing
15 now where this, uh, icon is. And I know that my vision starts
16 opening up a little bit at this point. Um, I could see him down on the
17 ground. I can see a gun off to his right by his leg. I also pull my
18 flashlight out at this time, uh, to highlight its position, and I’m, I'm
19 still really in shock with what just happened moments before. Um, I
20 then, I'm giving commands at this point. I'm saying everybody on the
21 ground. Don't move. You know, stay where you're at because I don't
22 know if there's, there's more weapons involved, if this person has
23 another weapon, or if the other person that was in a fight has a
24 weapon as well. Um, I'm sittin' there for a second, and then I, I, I
25 hear a voice, uh, from a man that's, he's, he's located right here on
26 that, um, ADA ramp that leads into the Chipotle. He has a orange tee
27 shirt on. Um, he tells me that, that's his friend and he would like to,
406 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 uh, check on him. I, I tell that man I'm, I'm sorry, but there's a gun
2 out, and I can't have you go up there at this time. We need to get
3 more officers here to secure the scene to get your friend help. I also
4 notice that I need to move the other guy that's on the ground and also
5 check to see what has happened to him. So, obvio, I don't know his
6 name, but I know he's wearing a blue shirt. So I say, uh, sir in the
7 blue shirt, you know, can you get up and move away from the gun.
8 And neither of these guys to my front are, are moving. So, I'm
9 concerned about what's goin' on, but he, I could see where his hands
10 are. I can see the front of his waist, and he gets up and stumbles, and
11 you can see the pillar there, stumbles into the pillar, and then kind of
12 plops down next to the, the other gentleman that was wearing the
13 orange shirt. Um, I'm also callin' our dispatch to let them know that
14 we needed Code 3 cover to get more units into the area, and I
15 perceived it like moments later I hear sirens and Portland Police
16 officers flooding the street there. Um, as soon as one of the cars pulls
17 up, uh, Officer Shaw gets out of the, the car right on near where that,
18 that tree is that's in the center of the screen. Um, I announce that
19 there is a gun on the ground there. He picks it up, puts it in the back
20 of his car. I holster my weapon and turn my flashlight off, and, you
21 know, he asked me if, if I'm all right. I tell him I'm processing what
22 just happened-
23 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
24 Shawn McKenzie: And I mean kinda – then he goes over, you know, what to do next.
25 Um, you know, uh, Officer Dewey and I check on each other. He
26 comes over to me and says, you know, are you okay? And I said,
27 yeah I'm all, all right. Um, we're separated from that point. I get on
407 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 my, uh, cell phone and call Sergeant Schilling and give him a brief
2 overview of what just happened.
3 Brian Davidson: And do you, do you do that because he’s your super-, is he the
4 supervisor, or?
5 Shawn McKenzie: Mm hmm. So, I, I tell him. You know, he's like what, what
6 happened? I said there was an officer-involved shooting. We're both
7 involved. Um, he, uh, and I said there was a fight, guy had a gun,
8 told him to drop the gun, pointed the gun at us and we shot. And I
9 called our union guy.
10 Brian Davidson: Okay. Uh, feel free to go ahead –
11 Shawn McKenzie: Okay.
12 Brian Davidson: –and have a seat. So, in, in your recollection, how, how quickly did
13 this situation go from being just kind of a very routine, uh, encounter
14 to deadly force? I mean, in your perception, how fast did that
15 unfold?
16 Shawn McKenzie: Rapidly.
17 Brian Davidson: All right.
18 Shawn McKenzie: Uh, within moments, if not, yeah, faster. It, it, I mean, in, at the time
19 it seemed like I was standing at this area for a while, but I know that
20 probably is not the case because my body was still tryin' ta calm
21 down.
22 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. And at the moment when, um, this person pointed the gun
23 at you, did you feel your life was in danger?
24 Shawn McKenzie: Absolutely. Yeah.
25 Brian Davidson: Did you feel you feel your partner's life was in danger?
26 Shawn McKenzie: Yes.
408 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: And was, uh, did you feel that potentially – there were still people in
2 the area right when this occurred?
3 Shawn McKenzie: Correct.
4 Brian Davidson: Did you feel like their lives were in danger?
5 Shawn McKenzie: Yes.
6 Brian Davidson: Um, the individual who was shot, as I'm sure you've learned since, is
7 Jason Washington, is his name.
8 Shawn McKenzie: Mm hmm.
9 Brian Davidson: Um, uh, had you ever had any previous encounters with him as far as
10 you know?
11 Shawn McKenzie: No. I had not. I didn't know who he was.
12 Brian Davidson: Okay. Uh, you were wearing a body-worn camera at the time which
13 you, uh, which you talked about.
14 Shawn McKenzie: Mm hmm.
15 Brian Davidson: Uh, have you previous to your testimony have you seen the body-
16 worn camera from either yourself or your partner?
17 Shawn McKenzie: No. I have not.
18 Brian Davidson: Okay. I was gonna play it now.
19 Shawn McKenzie: Okay.
20 Brian Davidson: Uh, if you hand me that.
21 Shawn McKenzie: Mm hmm.
22 Brian Davidson: Actually, if I could get this-
23 Other Speaker: Back, back. Get the fuck back. Back, back.
24 Other Speaker: ****.
25 Other Speaker: Get back.
26 Other Speaker: He’s got a gun
27 Other Speaker: ****.
409 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Other Speaker: Stop, stop, stop. Drop the gun. Drop the gun, drop the fucking gun.
2 Other Speaker: Fuck.
3 Other Speaker: Oh, dude come on.
4 Other Speaker: Get out of here, get out of here, sir, get out of here. Sir, get out of
5 here. Move away.
6 Other Speaker: **** That’s my best friend-
7 Other speaker: Shots fired.
8 Other Speaker: Please get away, please get away.
9 Other Speaker: Yo, officer, yo, are,are you an officer?
10 Other Speaker: – Hey,
11 Other Speaker: Get away
12 Other Speaker: ****
13 Other Speaker: Get him away please.
14 Other Speaker: Sit down. Please sit down.
15 Other Speaker: **** –
16 Other Speaker: Get on the ground.
17 Other Speaker: - blocked off on Southwest College. Need as many units as we can
18 get please.
19 Other Speaker: Sir
20 Other Speaker: ****.
21 Other Speaker: You in the blue shirt, do not move.
22 Other Speaker: ****, not my fault, not my fault bro,
23 Other Speaker: ****
24 Other Speaker: Not my fault bro.
25 Other Speaker: ****
26 Other Speaker: Hey, yo ****.
27 Other Speaker: They shoot him, they shot him.
410 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Other Speaker: Stop.
2 Other Speaker: Back up.
3 Other Speaker: Do not move.
4 Other Speaker: ****.
5 Other Speaker: They shot him-
6 Other Speaker: Officer, officer, officer, officer, officer, officer. Officer, yo officer
7 Other Speaker: ****.
8 Other Speaker: ****
9 Other Speaker: ****
10 Other Speaker: Do not move.
11 Other Speaker: Get down.
12 Other Speaker: Sit down sir.
13 Other Speaker: Sit down sir.
14 Other Speaker: Sit down.
15 Other Speaker: ****
16 Other Speaker: Sit down.
17 Other Speaker: ****
18 Other Speaker: Sit down.
19 Other Speaker: ****
20 Other Speaker: You just shot him bitch.
21 Other Speaker: ****
22 Other Speaker: Get away.
23 Other Speaker: **** boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom,
24 boom, boom, boom.
25 Other Speaker: ****
26 Other Speaker: ****
27 Other Speaker: **** We need code 3 cover.
411 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Other Speaker: ****
2 Other Speaker: ****
3 Other Speaker: You killed him. You killed **** –
4 Other Speaker: – concealed weapon,
5 Other Speaker: *** you killed a man with a concealed weapon, and you're done,
6 bitch.
7 Other Speaker: Back up, Back up, guys. All you guys back up.
8 Other Speaker: What are you ganna do, shoot me –
9 Other Speaker: ****.
10 Other Speaker: Shoot me–
11 Other Speaker: ****
12 Other Speaker: Shoot me bitch
13 Other Speaker: Shoot you bitch
14 Other Speaker: ****
15 Other Speaker: Back up.
16 Other Speaker: ****
17 Other Speaker: Hey back up, back up guys.
18 Other Speaker: ****–
19 Other Speaker: Back up ****. Back the fuck up.
20 Other Speaker: Bro, you killed him.
21 Other Speaker: Back up.
22 Other Speaker: You killed him.
23 Other Speaker: Back up, back up.
24 Other Speaker: ****
25 Other Speaker: He's dead, he’s dead.
26 Other Speaker: ****
27 Other Speaker: Sir sit down, sir sit down,
412 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Other Speaker: He’s dead.
2 Other Speaker: Sir sit down,
3 Other Speaker: He’s dead bro-
4 Other Speaker: sit down, sit down sir-
5 Other Speaker: ****
6 Other Speaker: sit down, sit down.
7 Other Speaker: You killed him.
8 Other Speaker: Sit, sit down
9 Other Speaker: You killed him.
10 Other Speaker: Please sit down,
11 Other Speaker: You killed him
12 Other Speaker: Sit down.
13 Other Speaker: There’s a gun right there.
14 Other Speaker: ****
15 Other Speaker: ****
16 Other Speaker: ****
17 Other Speaker: ****
18 Other Speaker: ****
19 Other Speaker: ****
20 Other Speaker: **** I got it cover.
21 Other Speaker: ****
22 Other Speaker: ****
23 Other Speaker: ****
24 Other Speaker: ****
25 Other Speaker: ****
26 Other Speaker: ****
27 Brian Davidson: That's the first time you've seen that video.
413 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Shawn McKenzie: Yes sir.
2 Brian Davidson: After having watched the video, does it refresh your recollect-,
3 recollection about anything you testified to previously?
4 Shawn McKenzie: Uh.
5 Brian Davidson: Or is that pretty much how you remember it?
6 Shawn McKenzie: I mean, I didn't think that it was that short of a time frame. Uh, in my
7 memory, even those events seemed to happen like that, it felt like a
8 lot longer, pa, amount of time.
9 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. But otherwise it comports with your recollection?
10 Questions from the Grand Jury? I'm not hearing any questions from
11 the Grand Jury. Okay. Um, officer at the time this happened, did you
12 feel like you had any alternative to using your sidearm?
13 Shawn McKenzie: No.
14 Brian Davidson: Would it have practical or safe to, uh, employ some other tool like a
15 Taser or pepper spray, something like that?
16 Shawn McKenzie: No. Um, my perception at the time is distance as well. A taser has to
17 be, to work properly, has to have a, an appropriate spread on the two
18 probes. Um, it has to hit both the lower extremities and upper
19 extremities to, uh, be effective-
20 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm.
21 Shawn McKenzie: And I felt like I was too close.
22 Brian Davidson: Mm hmm. Uh, and as far as your training is concerned they train you
23 to, when you're threatened with potentially deadly physical force, uh,
24 is a taser a gen, a appropriate tool generally, when confronted with
25 that kind of force?
26 Shawn McKenzie: No, not against a firearm, no.
414 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com
1 Brian Davidson: Okay. All right. Again andno other questions? No? Okay. Uh, we
2 can go off the record.
3
4
5 Reviewed, verified against recording, and DDA approved. 10/4/18
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
415 Transcription provided by: SpeakWrite www.speakwrite.com