HAZEL MARGUERITE SCHMOLL. Born 1890. Transcript of OH0029. Recorded at her home on Balsam Street in Ward, Colorado. The interviewer is Rachel Homer of the Boulder County History Project of the Boulder Public Library.

[A].

Hazel Schmoll was born August 23, 1890, in Kansas. Educated in the Colorado public schools, she attended the University of Colorado and the University of Michigan. She earned her MS and PhD degrees at the University of Chicago. From 1913 to 1917 she taught at Vassar College and later on, among other jobs, she was State Botanist in Colorado. She is the oldest resident of Ward.

HS: I lived in a sod shanty in the clay in western Kansas. My folks came to Colorado when I was a baby. They first came to Caribou. My aunt was the first of Mother's family to come west. Then she persuaded them. She came to Kansas first where my folks lived in a sod shanty on the plain. They homesteaded there. My father had two sisters. Then they came West, My aunt came first, Aunt Emma, who met her husband in Caribou. Then they came to Ward,.

RH: So your family went to Caribou for mining?

HS: Yeah. Of course my Uncle Bert Fairhurst was a miner and he was from an old Colorado family that came to Blackhawk before, when Colorado was Colorado Territory.

RH: Did you live in Caribou with your family?

HS: Well, I was just a baby. They came here in 1892, and of course I went to grade school here. My mother was sort of hipped on education. She wanted me to have a very good education. In Boulder it was years before they ever had a college graduate in the school, but we had what we called a Professor Robbins who was a college graduate that taught the upper grades in our school here. While there were only four of us who graduated, I think we had as good an education as most of the young people who went to high school, that is up through the eighth grade.

RH: That was the photograph you were looking at earlier, the graduation pictures?

HS: Yes. I graduated from the eighth grade up here. We had the exercises in the Congregational Church. This Union Congregational Church was built in 1896. And the bell on that church was cast in Boston. We had some people from Terre Haute, Indiana, that were very very fine people. They were the ones that were instrumental in having this bell made. Bartholomew was their name. Of course, Ward had a population of 1800 until January 23, 1900, I think.

RH: 1894. The fire?

HS: No, the fire was in 1900. And it burned the whole center of town.

RH: Oh, that's right. I was thinking of the Jamestown flood. The fire. I've seen photographs of the fire and the damage from the fire.

HS: Oh, the fire was terrible. We lost everything we had. Father's business, every business, and our own home. We just lost everything. And later on, when I graduated from high school, we bought this house. This house, I mean the original house, was logs. It was built, I think, in 1885. And then, of course, he kept adding to it. This sun porch is the newest porch. Mother always had house plants. And father, both mother and father liked plants. And then the wildflowers. I can thank my father because he was probably one of the first professional guides up in our scenic area. Ward used to advertise itself as the center and inner gateway to the three largest glaciers of the southern Rockies. This was originally a mining community. Still, we always had tourists here because of our scenery. And, when was it the trail came?

RH: Switzerland Trail?

HS: Yes. 1890, Yes, We children used to gather flowers. Mining was still going on when the train came in. We used to go up to the dumps where they threw out the ore which had been sorted, and we'd always find a few very rich specimens. Then we children used to take them up and sell them at the depot to the tourists.

RH: With the fire, the town never regained its population. Is that correct?

HS: No, it's never come back. Because all of this area down here was solid buildings. You've probably seen pictures.

RH: I have, yes. It's really fascinating. Did the town ever reach a very low time of population?

HS: I believe there was a winter when we only had seven people in the town.

RH: But that's not so recent, is it?

HS: No, I forget when that was. I may have a bunch of pictures down in one of those histories.

RH: Good. We'll look at that and include that in these tapes.

HS: Well, it may not be a bad idea, because those are fresher memories than I have now. But the new people that came to town after they had their bags unpacked, what they'd do was come down and see us. My folks both liked people very much. Father was the livery person in the early days. His livery barn, which was burned in 1968, held sixteen head of horses.

RH: I have a question about the Arabian horse ranch, Van Fleets.

HS: Oh, yeah. We used to go there to see their shows. That picture in my parlor is the picture of me on my white Arabian horse. I used to go over to the Arabian ranch on Sundays. I was surprised; father didn't think too much of those Arabian horses. I don't know why. But that was interesting when the Van Fleets used to come up and have these horses perform.

RH: And it was known as the Wheeler Ranch. Is that right?

HS: That was the old Tucker Ranch. I think that's supposed to be one of the largest mountain ranches in Colorado.

RH: Now Judge Coffin owned it, and then...

HS: Oh, no, no. Judge Coffin lives up out North here, He never owned the ranch. The Van Fleets did. McGinnis owned the ranch out North here that used to be called the Coffin Ranch.

RH: I see, I understand it was quite a wonderful show that they put on Sundays.

HS: It was. It was.

RH: Did your horse come from that ranch?

HS: No. Oh, I had that long before then. No, I think this picture was taken in 1920. People would come out from Ireland. Anyway, I think this dates back to 1920. I probably had the happiest childhood of anyone ever was because I had my own horse and my little black cocker spaniel dog, and we used to go out. What my favorite thing was to go out and go on a place like James Creek here and find a place where a tree had fallen and cross the creek. Mother would put up a lunch for me, and I'd take my little black dog and put her in front of me on the saddle. Then I would crawl out on the log and have a cup, and when I wanted a drink I'd just get down into James Creek and get a nice drink and eat my lunch. That was the favorite thing that I used to do. I used to go out all by myself so I learned the country pretty well. Mother had her horse, too. We called him Spot. I remember one time I was going along what is, well, at that time I didn't know it was the old Hayden Trail that came up to Duck Lake. I was going along that trail, going east, and all of a sudden the trail ended. I really didn't know exactly where I was, so I said to Mother's horse, "Now Spot, I don't know where I am. You've got to take me out of here." So he looked one way and he looked another. Pretty soon he went right into the trail and took me right out to the main highway.

RH: Did you also help with your family's business?

HS: Oh. Yes.

RH: What were your chores?

HS: Father had a hired man, a very big (inaudible) person. His family did favors for Jesse James in the service and his name was Cal Rose. Before this fire, we had our livery stable. It held sixteen head of horses, I think it was, and upstairs we had a private room, and they all stood at the front. We drove in the middle and the barn keeps lined up on each side of the barn. And Cal Rose, as I said, used to do favors for Jesse James. Oh, that's an interesting story if I can remember it. His father, I think, was on the side of the North in the Civil War, and their neighbor on the South. I think that's how it was. Oh, gee, I must remember that story because that's really a good one of the family's. I must have that written down somewhere. Anyway, I know one was in the South, and someone else in the (inaudible). And then the fellows left and went up into Montana, and that's where Cal was. Ah, Calamity Jane. Yes, he knew Calamity Jane and all of those people. And he was an alcoholic.

RH: Cal Ross was?

HS: Rose. Cal Rose. Yeah, he worked for us for over twenty years in our livery stable before the fire. He had a private room and an office in the sun. Then you drove in metal and every so often he'd get on a drunk. Then he'd go down in the valley to Bob Branson who was evidently a large landholder down there. He'd get a job until he got sobered up and then he’d probably come into Boulder and there he’d get on a drunk again. One time when he was in Boulder he called Father on the telephone. He said, " Father said "Yeah, what do you want, Cal?" "Seventy-five dollars. I'm in jail." So then he came back. He was a good worker but he just had that bad habit. He used to tease me about my horse. He always kept it beautifully. Every time I wanted to ride, all I'd have to do was to say that I wanted him to saddle up my horse so I could go riding. We had spotted horses in those days. They were part Arabian. Beautiful horses, as you can see by my picture. Ah, I remember one time I went up to ride. He named this one pony of mine. They had spotted ponies, He called it Dandy. So he always called him Dandy. I went up, and it looked like it was going to rain, so I had a raincoat on that someone had given me. When he saw me he stood there as much as to say, "You don't fool me. You've got on something different." Those horses were just as dear to us as people.

RH: What happened during the fire? Were they let loose?

HS: Yes, and they kept wanting to go back into the barn. But they did manage to keep them out finally. But we lost everything we had, our home and our barn and everything. It was terrible, just awful, because I was just learning to sew and cook, and they burned our home and stopped with our house. Then of course it was time soon after that for me to go away to high school. I went to Boulder, the State Preparatory School. We bought a home there for a short time. I was going to high school. I had my horse down there for a while.

RH: What do people do with the fire for --.

HS: Well, that fire, it was in Boulder this deep. The horse would go along and the dust would fly up.

RH: I was interested to know what people did after the fire.

HS: Well, people in Longmont sent up food for us on the train. That was a free blessing. Then we found a house. It's up this Utica Street here where we lived for quite a while with John Rice. John Rice came west, I think, in 1885. And he owned Colorado Mine, up near the BMN Mine. He used to tell about them meeting the Indians on the plains when they came west. I don't know when, but that house is still standing.

RH: Is that the one that's right next to the road, just where the store is located now?

HS: It's on the other side of Spruce Street.

RH: Across the street from the store?

HS: The one up by the old post office. The one just above that. That's the oldest house, one of the oldest left in town. It was built probably about 1885.

RH: I see. And there's another very old house down here near you. On Balsam Street.

HS: I think they built that in 1883.

RH: Excuse me. Who built the house?.

HS: I think, Griffins. He used to be one of the robe men at church. They were an Irish family. He had one son that was a hunchback. He used to be a janitor up at the school so many years ago. What was his name? Hugh. Hugh Griffin. They had a son, Jack. I don't remember how many girls they had. That goes back to 1885. They owned a ranch up here in Gold Hill, Spruce Ranch. I think part of the building is standing. If you go to the Martin Wally house, when you get to the top of Sawmill Hill and turn to the left, that first log house to the left is Martin Wally's. Then (inaudible) down the Allen Trail. That should be written up. Possibly it's in one of those histories.

RH: You must have a lot of memories when you go into the school which you now use as the post office, isn't it, the Town Hall?

HS: Oh, yeah. Mrs. Gibbons was our post master. She was a graduate of the University of Colorado. Allenspark used to get its mail here in Ward. My mother took the mail over there once, and I was trying to think. I think I went in the buggy. We followed the ridge. And when, well--.

RH: You were thinking of one of the places between here and Allenspark, were you?

HS: Yes, that's what I was trying to remember. Lodge of the Pines wasn't built at that time, but the most beautiful sunset I saw in my life was one night we were coming back in the buggy through where the Lodge of the Pines is now.

RH: Hazel, was most of the exploring around here done by yourself?

HS: Well, Father was a purveyor. Stapp's Lake Lodge, of course, is eight miles north of here. And he used to meet the trains here and take people by buggy over there.

RH: Have you been there recently? I'd be very interested to hear about that. I understand some of the wood from the mill dock was built up there at Stapp's Lake, the sawmill.

HS: There was a sawmill.

RH: And a beautiful lodge. I've seen photographs of it.

HS: I've never heard of that.

RH: About what? The wood, you mean? There was a lodge at Stapp's Lake, wasn't there?

HS: Oh, yes, yes.

RH: Can you tell me something about that?

HS: (inaudible) was a wonderful cook and that was one of the first summer resorts in Boulder County. She was a wonderful cook. She had one of these small little cook stoves that she used to bake her biscuits in the morning. They had a wonderful clientele, from the University of Colorado, used to come up there on vacation. Clancey Baker. Then later her son married, and they built the present lodge down near the creek.

RH: Is the lodge still up there?

HS: Yes, but private. Henderson owns it now.

RH: Oh, I see. When was the last time you'd been there?.

HS: I'd have to think that out.

RH: Would you go by buggy or ride your horse? HS: We usually went by buggy. I have a picture somewhere that Ida May Stapp gave me of Father in a buggy where he had made a two seated buggy. He used to meet the trains here and take the people by buggy eight miles back.

RH: Was it a success? The buggy?

HS: Oh, yes, yes, The Stapp boys went to school here. They used to go into town to get the children from school in Fletcher. I think I taught one of the Stapp boys to waltz. We used to dance in school all during recess. I don't know whether we had music to go by or not. I don't think we did. We just did the step and probably sang, you know. But we danced. And we used to have spelling downs. The teacher would give the word. Then the one that missed would have to go to the front of the class. Mrs. Cockerell, Professor Cockerell's wife, was up here one time, I think when we had a spelldown. We had good times at our schoolhouse.

RH: I suppose you saw the mill that was being run as a mill and a mine.

HS: I think I was six years old when we were invited to dinner up at that old stone house. It's--still there. I don't remember the mill so well.

RH: You certainly have a beautiful view from there. It was a rather large mill, wasn't it?

HS: Yes, very large. I think it had 30 steps when I was there. They had those low tables the library would have, but those paintings? Must have washed away in the creek that goes out from Duck Lake because they were lime paintings and it went around, down. But that's the old Hayden Survey Trail that comes up from the Peak to Peak highway. Comes up around. Did you see this picture I have? It's carved on the trees. Let's see,'72, Well, let's look through those, because I have a picture of one of those trees.

RH: Are these trees marked from the survey?

HS: Yeah, yeah. Here we are: 1872. They came up along the creek. That's the outside of Duck Lake, up Tin Mouth Gulch it's called. I've written it down here. Here in Tin Mouth Gulch near Duck Lake. Probably marked by people on the Hayden Survey.

RH: Well, these photographs show trees that have been written on. Marked and sized.

HS: Yes, that's what they did.

RH: In 1872.

HS: It must have been the Masons in that group, because here's what I-.

RH: That's right; It's the Mason insignia.

HS: Now that may be more detailed; I don't know.

RH: And these, these are located very near Duck Lake and in the vicinity of the Marlow (? ) We'll have to try to go find those, Hazel.

HS: Oh, that's easy. All you have to do is to go out north here on the highway to the little creek there, and then walk up that creek until you come to Duck Lake. But that's the old Hayden Survey, At the east end of the lake you went up north and went up to Beaver Reservoir and then up there. There was a sawmill, Puckett Sawmill. It was just north of Duck Lake and across Jim Creek. Father went with a buggy, the same old buggy, and a baby passed away up there. He went with a team, of course. They had a box on the front seat and there were two of the little children that were sitting on the box that Father moved out.

Father had some very good stories. When I came back from the University of Chicago I kept a notebook. When he'd get a notion to tell some of these stories I wrote down some of these stories. I've got them some- place in here.

RH: When did you buy the ranch in Jamestown? Was it before the fire or was it afterwards?

HS: That must have been afterwards. I've got that written down somewhere.

RH: Did you spend much time there as a young woman?

HS: Well, I remember one time when I was State Botanist. You think women could be catty, but you ought to work where you've got some men that are. But they were nice to me. But they just nearly wrecked me. I spent a whole week. Mother put up lunches, food for me, I spent a whole week in that log cabin just trying to get my sanity back.

RH: Well, that's very interesting. Over on your ranch?.

HS: on my ranch, yes. The HM ranch. They were very nice to me after being that way, but it was bad back in 1922.

RH: I'd be very interested to hear about your work. As you mentioned, you became State Botanist.

HS: Yes. Ellsworth Bethel was the head of the botany department, I don't remember studying there. That must be written somewhere.

RH: Was your degree from Chicago in botany?

HS: Yes, ecological. I studied under Dr. Henry C. Cole who was the originator of the word ecology and science of ecology. The way he happened to originate it, he majored in geology. I have this written somewhere, I'm sure. The instructor was a bearcat to work with, so he left the geology department and went over to the botany department and worked under Dr. Cole who wrote the first Flora of the Rocky Mountains. He combined geology and botany and called it ecology. That's where the word "ecology" was started. He was not necessarily handsome, but he was just wonderful, We used to go on trips together in the days before it was nice for women to wear skirts with pants. We'd go on botany trips up to the hills-.

RH: In Chicago?

HS: Yes. We'd wait until we got out into the country. Then he'd say, "Take off your skirt." Then we'd dare to wear our pants. I just almost didn't get my masters degree because I spent two years on my masters, 1917-1919. Then my doctorate in 1930. That's all in 'American Men of Science'.

RH: Good. I'm glad you're in it. Were you very clear about what you wanted to study? I can see, growing up here, how you would really nurture a love for plants.

HS: Oh, yeah. I love plants. I never cared to take geology although I studied under professor Cockerell, T.D. Cockerell. There was a wonderful article in, was it the University of Colorado Alumnus, recently about Professor Cockerell. I thought that was delightful. He could write so small. It was almost invisible and yet it was clear. But of course he studied insects, botany, and zoology. When word came that I got a job teaching at Vassar College, I'll never forget Dr. Leahy was standing by the window. He said, "I don't understand it", and I thought, "Well, you don't. But God does." And I was there four years.

RH: He was amazed that you got the job, then.

HS: Oh, yes. Well, I was terribly shy, and they teased me because I stayed at Vassar. They didn't kick me out at least. I didn't chaperone at West Point like when Eisenhower went there. I chaperoned to the house, sometimes the officer's house, sometimes the cadet's house. They wore the same uniform that I think they used in the days of Washington,.

RH: How was it being at Vassar?

HS: Oh, it was very interesting. I first was in zoology under Dr. Trentwell and he was a darling. Everybody just loved him. Then I wanted botany because I didn't like to cut up cats. So I went on to botany and I adored it. I learned a lot, too. I wanted to go riding one time while I was a Vassar. I said, "I'd like to learn to ride." I never let on that I'd ridden, He gave me an old nag that father wouldn't even have in the barn. He would have taken it out and shot it. So when the man saw that I can ride, he apologized and he said, "I see you understand how to ride." I had never ridden an Eastern saddle. I'd always ridden a Western saddle. I never liked to spank myself so I never enjoyed anything but Western saddle. That's what I used to call it when I didn't like that kind of language.

RH: What made you decide to leave Vassar?

HS: I didn't like (inaudible).

RH: Did you come directly to Ward?

HS: Oh, sure. It's always been home. If you look it up, it's more accurately given in Who's Who in America. I went to bug camp in northern Michigan the year I went to Vassar.

RH: What kind of camp?

HS: Biology camp. Bug camp, Bay View town. That's where they put on the Hiawatha play. We attended that at Bay View. We had tents and black flies in the summer, but it was okay. There was a mirage there. They thought there was a city or something there, around the lake. Oh, I had all my diaries. You saw them. There was a reason why I kept diaries. My uncle was a graduate from the University of Michigan. He always kept a diary in his hip pocket. I don't know what my cousin Catherine's done with his diary. I hope she kept it.

RH: Well, you had a winter of seven people (in Ward) one year. Did the population start to increase after that? How did people react to the increase in population and people coming in?

HS: Oh, dear. I'll have to think about that. But I remember it did get down to seven.

RH: And then in the '60s there were the hippies. How did people regard them?

HS: I think they were very friendly to them, as I remember it. I'd have to think that out, too. There was one, I think one lived out at Duck Lake, and she was from the East. Oh, I can't think about that. That was ages--a new experience.

RH: I imagine it was. Were there a lot of people coming here at that time?

HS: I tell you, I've got my diaries in there, and I probably have everything down in my diaries.

RH: I've talked to one woman in Nederland. She said she thought they were somewhat irritating.

HS: Isn't that strange. I know the girl. She was from New England. RH: What was she doing out here?

HS: Well, I'd have to think that out.

RH: And there were more.

HS: I'd have to get out my diaries. My memories, I think, are quite descriptive. I told her that she was a hippie. I forgot what my conversation was, but it was very interesting.

RH: Was she renting up in Duck Lake from you?

HS: (inaudible) owned that for a long, long time. I don't know why they were there. My diary's there.

RH: Are there still hippies in Ward?

HS: Not that we call hippies. I think we have a very nice class of people in Ward.

RH: Are they different from the other people? Is there some difference in the people that are here now?

HS: Of what had been here, oh yes, I should say. At least they're a very nice class of people.

RH: What were the people like before?

HS: Well, I'd have to think that out, too. They were rather unpleasant. They were the ones that planned the burning of all my garages, And the bombing of my stone building. One of the boys that was born here said it was just because I had an education. So they bombed my stone building, and they burned all of my garages. That was an awful experience. Dear: I had a storage for automobiles and a long garage that held 16 head of horses. The woman is still living that helped plan that. It was just jealousy, what the man said. Well, but then I don't think people gain anything by doing things like that. I survived.

RH: Would you say the people who are here now are better educated? The young people who are settling here?

HS: Oh, they're nice people. Very nice.

[B]. RH: --houses per family from Highland Park?

HS: Yeah. Some of them were from Chicago. They were just here visiting recently.

RH: (Looking at photograph) Oh, I know her: She's the one that works in the store, in the bakery. Is that right?.

HS: Her husband is connected with the town. The girl from the store is from Winnetka. She's a lovely girl. They've got awfully nice girls. The woman that lives in there in that same building, her father is, was or is, Vice President of the American-Arabian Oil Company. Her one boy looks as if he's Polish. He's a nice little child, very gracious and beautifully brought up. She's somebody else. She's not the owner of the store. She's someone that just lives there. Oh, the girl from home. Let's see. Her folks aren't from Winnetka. She has really done wonders for that store, building it up. She has a bakery. She worked it all up by herself, too.

RH: What are your activities these days, Hazel, in addition to having all your many friends visit you? Are you working on your diaries?

HS: I have friends come to the ranch, and I just had some people who wanted me to go out there and ... Didn't I say?.

RH: Yes. I would love to see that place myself.

HS: All you have to do is go five miles to the top of the hill, turn right, and the first ranch in as you go toward Jamestown, east, that's my ranch. The log house is down to the creek, by the little creek that comes in from the west. Then, you look in the distance and you'll see my big lodge. Down below my lodge is James Creek. What do they call it? Is that the same thing? (inaudible, but she's talking about the creek. ) Gorgeous view of the lake.

RH: Do you spend a lot of time over there, Hazel, or do you just operate the business?

HS: I haven't operated this business for a long time. These friends that are coming tomorrow from Boulder bring their family up. One man brings his granddaughter from Florida. She comes up and so on. I mean that type of thing. One of these, ah, they have a son that plays the piano. Just out of this world: Sings, a beautiful voice, and they bring their people over from Grand Junction and their two daughters. They have these two darling little boys. I've never known children to grow up as beautifully. I didn't take children at the lodge. I only took adults. Oh. Nowadays they call my white horse Dandy, but I used to always call him Horse. They painted every year because of the wind and the sun, because you see it faces the west. I had a little vehicle that I called by trolley, and I'd move around. I can't think of the importance of that.

RH: What was it like when you ran the lodge? Did you serve meals?

HS: Oh, yes. Yes, I served meals, I was trying to think of those early years. I'd have wonderful cooks. It started out as a girls' ranch. Then the President of the Chamber of Commerce in Boulder told me I should take adults, that I should change it to adults. He said I was wasting my time, that I had too much to offer. One of the cutest things I'll first tell you about. I had a girl from New York City, or was it Chicago? The little girl came to me one day and said, "I wish you was my mama." (laughter) I had the horses then and I went on a trip back to Trapper's Ranch, not far from my ranch. That was one trip I took with a hike. You could see from Pikes Peak to Longs Peak, clear, beautiful trip--short. We always took our lunch and ate it on top of the rock.

RH: Are you getting tired, Hazel?

HS: No. I just couldn't think of anything. First, I always had the weakness of liking to go out and join the girls,.

RH: Do you still have family here?

HS: I have a cousin who owns a home over in Aspen and her oldest son. They were here last weekend. They want to take the stuff out of my hotels and take me over there. I may not let them. I'm not sure yet; I haven't got that worked out yet.

RH: You mean over to their house, to sell it over there or something?

HS: Well, I don't know whether they'd take it over to their home in Aspen. She has a home in Florida and a home in Aspen and a home up in Canada.

RH: Gee. Well off, isn't she?.

HS: Wells she never gives me anything. I need to raise money for everything, but (inaudible). They bought the Alexander Graham Bell home up in Canada.

RH: Did they? I know that was for sale. That was quite a grand place. It's so lovely, beautiful home, you'd love it. The wild things, the plants, and kind of like Colorado.

HS: She lived in Florida. They keep an apartment in Washington to retreat to. Her daughter was married in the National Cathedral there. The reception for her wedding was at the Chevy Chase Club in Washington. They owned a home, a great big house, an old barn I called it, across from the American University in Washington.

RH: Have you ever lived in Aspen? Do you like it over that way?

HS: Oh, yeah, it's pretty. They live in that house when you go from Glenwood Springs, up when you get about to Aspen, that big yellow house on the left side where the big homes are. That's their home. Directly opposite the ski lift, I mean the view is directly opposite that. I've been where they lived a long time ago. Lodge Pines north of here was our first very elegant summer resort. Operated by Edna Hours (? ) and Mrs. Richards' first--.

RH: This was after Duck Lake Lodge?

HS: Oh yes, yes. That was the oldest. Now they have high fence all around it, and I guess nobody can even peek in for privacy. On, this man--.

RH: You're not thinking of Caribou Ranch, are you?

HS: Oh no. No, no, no.

RH: It's pretty inaccessible also.

HS: Well, I expect so, yes.

RH: Phillips runs the business.

HS: Well, I was there before the people had it, I guess, because they used to go to those horse shows every Sunday. But Father, I was amazed, Father was still living and he didn't think too much of those Arabian horses. Maybe he liked sorrels better. Plus they were more independent and had a little more personality, and they weren't coddled.

RH: Do you keep any horses up on your ranch now?

HS: I think the girls that come up occasionally that live at my ranch house have had their horses there.

RH: Was that a fairly old ranch?

HS: Yes,.

RH: Or were all the old buildings there built by your father?

HS: We bought from Austin. That's quite an old ranch.

RH: From whom?

HS: Austin. I forget what his first name was. Mrs. Austin went, I guess soon after he passed away, she insisted that she wanted Father to have her ranch. He paid for it dearly in those days, a very heavy price for it. I think she walked in here seven miles to make sure it was father who bought that ranch. She didn't want anybody else to have it. She'd been very kind to me. When her husband was sick I guess her mother and father and she didn't want anybody else to have it. I haven't thought of that for--. She kept that, in front of the log house, she kept it, she just swept it. She always had a white apron on. Somewhere I have that picture.

RH: Was that an early homestead? I'm interested in the history of it. Is there someone at the door ?

HS: Yes.

RH: All right. We'll shut this off.