The Life and Inspirations of a Documentary Filmmaker Featuring Kate Davis Award-Winning Documentary Filmmaker, Musician, Wife and Mom

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The Life and Inspirations of a Documentary Filmmaker Featuring Kate Davis Award-winning Documentary Filmmaker, Musician, Wife and Mom

Hello, Woman on Fire! It’s Debbie Phillips, the founder of Women on Fire. Welcome back to another edition of your Women on Fire membership, where I interview amazing women whose passion, talent and courage inspire our own lives. For many of us, the movies we choose to see are a great source of pleasure, education and entertainment, lifting us up to what is possible. In my own life, I’ve been transported to new heights and awarenesses by movies such as Twenty Feet from Stardom, Bowling for Columbine, Searching for Sugar Man and my very favorite of all, Southern Comfort. These movies are all documentary films, intended to document and capture an aspect of reality. Today, I’m deeply honored to have with me and introduce you to Kate Davis. She’s the award-winning director and producer of many documentary movies, including my best-loved movie that I just mentioned, Southern Comfort. In this interview, Kate shares:

• A behind-the-scenes view of a filmmaker’s life • How she overcomes challenges in the making of her movies • Where she gets her ideas and inspiration • How she navigates a busy career She’s a wife and a mom. In fact, she and her husband, David Heilbroner, work together and have been producing award-winning documentaries for nearly two decades. Her films have spanned and explored a great range of subjects from addictions to murders to historic events to even whistling. She is a very thoughtful woman of many talents, and she’s also a singer. She and David are personal friends of Rob and mine, and I’m so grateful she’s taken the time from her busy schedule to be here today and answer some of your questions, too. She’s currently working on a movie, and I can’t wait for her to give you a sneak preview.

Debbie: Welcome, Kate Davis! Kate: Thank you. Nice to be here. Debbie: We’re here in Jimmy Parr’s studio on Martha’s Vineyard. How long have you lived

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The Life and Inspirations of a Documentary Filmmaker Featuring Kate Davis Award-winning Documentary Filmmaker, Musician, Wife and Mom

on or been coming to the Vineyard? Kate: I grew up spending summers in Woods Hole [a village on Cape Cod where ferries depart to Martha’s Vineyard], which feels like another continent away. David and I met in college through music, and he had spent summers here. For 25 years, this has been more my home than I ever could have imagined. Debbie: You actually live here now. Kate: We live here during summer, and I’ve spent three winters here. So I’ve tried that too. Debbie: You can get a lot done in the winter here. There’s nothing else to do, right? Kate: It’s a great place if you have a project. Absolutely. Debbie: That’s terrific. Awakening to Passion

Debbie: I want to start in the beginning. I know you were born in Boston. Tell us a little bit about your life. What did your parents want you to be when you were growing up? Kate: I was the artistic one of the three of us kids, and my parents did encourage that. I have to give them credit. In fact, when I got into Harvard, I remember my father saying, “Why are you going there? Don’t you want to go to art school?” I took a lot of art classes in college, but in my senior year, almost by chance, I have to admit, I landed in a documentary filmmaking class with Ross McElwee. Sherman’s March is probably his most famous film, and I became his assistant and helped edit Sherman’s March. That really launched my career. Debbie: When you were a little girl, did you like movies? Do you remember being inspired by a movie? Kate: Not really. I think it was that filmmaking course that changed me. I was much more of a painter and studio arts person. I studied printmaking in Rome and was always making stuff. But when I made my first student films that told real stories of people who were going through incredible true dramas in their lives, somehow it clicked with me that there was a medium that was more suited for me. I could tell stories, which was harder to do through flat artwork, and it also involved music and motion and politics. It had it all for me. Debbie: What was your first foray into film? What was your first job?

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The Life and Inspirations of a Documentary Filmmaker Featuring Kate Davis Award-winning Documentary Filmmaker, Musician, Wife and Mom

Kate: My first job was for Ross McElwee, working on his film. Then I worked for Fred Wiseman, another luminary, a Boston-based documentary veteran. I was an assistant editor. My first foray on my own was a film called Girl Talk, which came from feeling that there had been a bunch of films about delinquent, quote unquote, “delinquent” street kids that all were based on characters who were male. I started thinking, “What is the female side of this and why is it so overlooked?” It was the late 1980s, and the boys were making the headlines. They were more overtly violent. I started to pursue this as what I thought might be an important topic. I made a feature documentary, thanks to the Massachusetts Council for the Arts for giving me my first grant. I made a film on street kids who were all girls, and I got into their whole, much more behind-the-scenes stories of feeling left out of their families or not wanting to go to school or becoming sex workers. There’s just a range of stories there. Debbie: That was your first movie, and you probably did a lot of it all by yourself. Kate: Yes, I had one partner who did a lot of the shooting. But Girl Talk really was my first film, and it was released theatrically and went to festivals and eventually to PBS. That gave me a little bit of courage to go ahead and keep telling stories that were, in general, rather overlooked by the media and the public. Debbie: I’ve known you for a long time, and one thing I’ve always loved about you is your thoughtful nature, how you’re shy. Are you an introvert? Kate: That’s funny. Somebody once called me a “Nerf ball with a steel core.” Debbie: [laughter] I love that. Kate: I guess I am a little shy, and so it is ironic to be catapulted into a position where I have to stick my camera in front of people in their private lives. That can be really hard, but, hopefully, some of my nature of not being too intrusive can play out in a way that can help people feel comfortable. The idea is to be invisible — or not just invisible but like a warm presence. It all comes down to trust between filmmaker and subject in terms of getting a deeper scene rather than a quick news piece. In Southern Comfort, one morning I was filming Robert and Lola, and Robert said, “You look beautiful,” and she said, “I wish we could have that recorded for when I feel down.” He said, “Honey, it is being recorded.” I was sitting there filming her, and she forgot the camera was on. She would always say that my camera

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The Life and Inspirations of a Documentary Filmmaker Featuring Kate Davis Award-winning Documentary Filmmaker, Musician, Wife and Mom

became this invisible part of me. Debbie: I love that. For everybody who’s listening who is introverted — which simply means you get your energy from a different place — a lot of times we have the stereotype that you can’t do that sort of thing. I think it’s phenomenal that you shared how you have turned that into something so incredibly positive and powerful. Anybody who’s seen your movies knows you capture these intimate moments that I don’t think could be captured unless you were so gentle. It’s one of the things I love about you. But how does that work when you try to go get financing for movies? Do you have to do that? Kate: Other people sometimes produce my films, but I’ve also been very much on my own. Until I had a certain kind of reputation, I had to go out there and sometimes take the risk of making a movie on very little money. Then the footage could speak for itself. In the end, yeah, I had to be a producer. I simply had to apply for grants, go into offices and pitch ideas. But it is, by far, not where I’m most comfortable. My favorite part, for sure, is in the filmmaking and even the editing, when I can piece the footage together and see what emerges. Debbie: Do you have any tricks of the trade? When you’re going in to make a pitch, do you do the power pose in the mirror or do you say, “Kate, you’ve got to do this. You love this movie more than you’re afraid”? Do you have anything special you do? Kate: Yes, a little bit. It is important to remember the piece and keep where my heart is in mind — why I want to do the project — rather than feel intimidated by the situation when somebody can shut you down. I’ve learned to do that. On the other hand, the folks at HBO would tease me and say, “One of the things about you is that you don’t push, and so when you do say something, we listen more.” I’m not a slick salesman, I would say, for better or worse. Debbie: I’d say that’s for better. That’s fantastic.

An Empathic Existence

Debbie: Tell us a little bit about what you’re thinking about when you find an idea. What is it like to live the life of a filmmaker? Kate: I’m an independent filmmaker. I sometimes have projects that are completely self-

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The Life and Inspirations of a Documentary Filmmaker Featuring Kate Davis Award-winning Documentary Filmmaker, Musician, Wife and Mom

funded at the beginning and then I sell them at the end. Sometimes I’m fully funded to begin with, and I have to roll with it. Then there is the cliff that one falls off into between projects. It always feels like there’s never going to be another project. That is the nature of freelancing in general. But then once something’s going, for me, I live and breathe another person’s drama, and that is a little bit strange. You’re living in somebody else’s shoes. The more I can empathize, the more I can see life from their point of view and the better job I can do with the film. In a sense, it’s a deeply empathic existence. Debbie: So while you’re working on a film, you’re breathing and thinking about these people. Do you dream about them? Does it become all encompassing, all enveloping? Kate: It does. I have to separate and think, “Now I have to be with my kids or pay attention to my dog and other things in life,” because I can get very caught up in the storytelling. To me, almost every character I’ve ever worked with — and there have been dozens and dozens, some likable, some not — I get into their point of view. Debbie: And so when you’re working on a film where there are these very interesting characters, do you study everything about them? If they’re alive, you’re obviously meeting them and spending time with them. How else do you get your information? Kate: Thanks to the internet, it’s really worth doing a basic search. But we — I say we because I’ve made the last few films with David Heilbroner, my partner — also follow leads. I listen carefully and then talk to friends of the people I’m working closely with and a lot can be learned just by observing. I try to use film as a visual medium so that it’s not entirely information driven. A challenge for me is to try to be really patient and observational and just let things unfold. That’s a little hard because I’m not naturally patient. But the best scenes come when you don’t expect them, so it’s really worth just hanging out and having a real relationship with the people you’re filming. At the end of a project, you’ve got these strong relationships, but then you sort of have to pull back and carve the product out of what you’ve accumulated. That’s a weird process, too, because in my mind there’s a disconnect. This is not just for me but, I would venture to say, for a lot of documentary filmmakers. There’s a potential tension between the emotional investment I’ve given to these folks who have been brave enough and open enough to let themselves be filmed, and yet I

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The Life and Inspirations of a Documentary Filmmaker Featuring Kate Davis Award-winning Documentary Filmmaker, Musician, Wife and Mom

have to go and do the important, essential job of making the film and they expect me to be around. They have a bond to the process, and I ultimately have to shut that door. That’s hard. I have a list in my life of film subjects I miss and feel I should call more. It’s something a book could be written on. Debbie: It’s like a storybook of characters and you know them all. Kate: Yes, and I really do care for them. Debbie: I know you do. Kate: I do. It’s just that there’s never enough time to keep up with everyone. In general, what I really feel is that the trust that I’ve built with the people I’ve filmed can be carried through in terms of having them be involved in screenings and processes. With Southern Comfort, Lola went around the world touring with it. Debbie: I know you do that. What inspires you to do a film? You’ve done such a wide range of topics, but where does the inspiration come from? Is it something that comes to you one day, like “Somebody should do a film on that”? Kate: Every product is different, and it’s hard to completely generalize. But for me, I’ll suddenly be sparked by an idea if I feel like there’s an essential core misunderstanding of the subject by society in general. It’s like, “Whoa, wait a minute.” Jockey is a good example. I just happened to be sitting in a dentist’s office one day, having no idea what my project would be, and I flipped through a magazine and there was a story on a jockey who was bulimic. Despite the beautiful, colorful outfits they wear, they were living a hardscrabble existence. I said, “That’s an interesting irony. I don’t think people understand that. What are those riders like?” A week later, HBO called and asked, “What do you want to do next?” I just blurted out, “I think that there’s a story to be told with these petite, 110-pound guys who look so great on television. What it takes to do what they do has yet to be told.” And that won an Emmy a year later. I like to uncover the surface of things and peel back the layers of the onion to show people something they might not expect about another group. That overcomes prejudice in my mind. That’s the core thing. Debbie: And you so have done that, and I do want to talk about Southern Comfort. Before

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The Life and Inspirations of a Documentary Filmmaker Featuring Kate Davis Award-winning Documentary Filmmaker, Musician, Wife and Mom

we do that, I want to go back to this notion of rejection. Have you ever had a movie that you really wanted to make and you just couldn’t find anybody to finance it? Or did you ever have a movie where people were saying, “We just don’t like that movie”? How did you deal with that rejection? Kate: I’ve done films that, even if they were well-reviewed, there just wasn’t an audience. A good example was Waiting for Armageddon, which was about the Christian right and their obsession with Israel and the strange political and financial relationship with the American right wing. There are 50 million, 100 million of them who believe Israel is where Christ will return, and so they protect Israel. Although, to me, the film really works, it’s a little bit of an obscure topic for a lot of people. It opened in a theater in New York city and got a full page in the New York Times with a picture. It was my most solid review from the Times ever, but nobody went. Opening night there were 10 people in the audience. Literally. My mother was one of them. Debbie: I’m so sorry, Kate. I would have been there for you. Kate: So how do I deal with that? If had to say, “It worked on its own terms, and we can’t measure ourselves according to any one moment.” Debbie: According to anybody but ourselves. You obviously believed in that film. You thought it was a good idea, and it’s out there. Who knows if it will come back? That reminds me of actress Vanessa Williams, who says that when something doesn’t turn out like she expects or her Broadway show ends or her TV show gets canceled, she automatically goes to the place up next so she can let go. Kate: Right. What is the point of dwelling on it? Sure, there have been a few projects I’ve dreamed of that didn’t get funded, but that’s OK. I’m with the next one. Debbie: You’ve got a whole big chapter ahead of you. You don’t know what’ll happen. Let’s turn to Southern Comfort. I first met you many years ago when I saw the movie. Rob had known you and we met then. Southern Comfort is one of the first films that broke the boundaries of what it’s truly like for someone to be transgender. It completely changed my life and the life of many people I recommended it to. It’s ironic that it was called Southern Comfort as it’s given comfort to a lot of people. It won more than 25 honors, including the

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The Life and Inspirations of a Documentary Filmmaker Featuring Kate Davis Award-winning Documentary Filmmaker, Musician, Wife and Mom

Sundance Film Festival’s Grand Jury Prize. How did it feel when that happened? Did it feel like being at the Oscars? Kate: It was a little bit like that. In case I won, I had a piece of paper with a little speech written out. But by the time I got up to the podium, it was crumpled and sweaty, so I decided to say words I don’t recall now. Debbie: Hopefully you thanked your husband. Kate: I did a bunch of thanking. Debbie: How did this movie come about? Kate: My husband, David, and I were doing films on social and justice issues for A&E network, and one was called Transgender Revolution. It was amazing that A&E was willing to make an hour show on the struggle of trans people for civil rights back in the late ’90s. Now, it wouldn’t seem like a big deal at all. But I was filming at a female-to-male convention, and that’s where I met Robert. His story was so remarkable. Here’s this guy with a pipe and a cowboy hat who was dying of ovarian cancer. He had been turned down by 24 doctors outside Atlanta, Georgia. He had stopped at some point in his life to have two children, even though he felt he was pregnant as a man, because he wanted to have children. He was so marvelously articulate and charming, and I was struck by him being somebody who could — if anybody could — break down barriers, who could help people fall in love with somebody they might otherwise think of as a freak or “the other” or contagious. People are so scared off by people who are much more like them than they know. I approached Robert and he was reluctant because, back then, it was a really scary thing to come out of the closet. Debbie: It was dangerous. Kate: Yes, and he passed fully as a man. He had a beard and a corn cob pipe and a shotgun in the back of the truck and all that, living out in the sticks. He said, “If people find out who I am, I’m going to be killed. But by the time this film comes out, I’ll probably be dead anyway.” That’s why he did it. Debbie: Wow. Kate: Going back to the moment at Sundance when we won, what I felt most of all was how

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The Life and Inspirations of a Documentary Filmmaker Featuring Kate Davis Award-winning Documentary Filmmaker, Musician, Wife and Mom

much Robert would have been so amazed that his story was being validated and that his life and words were living on. They still do, to this day. It became a musical that opened in New York. This could have so been swept under the rug. Believe me, it was lonely making that film. I would sometimes go down and film him in his trailer home and think, “Maybe nobody will see this, but it’s just wonderful knowing him.” By no means did I get support. I couldn’t get grants. It was too weird. It was just too aberrant a subject and then, years later, it was appreciated. Debbie: Well, Kate this is one of the many reasons I love you as a person and as a filmmaker that you pursued this. As I’m sitting here, I have goosebumps on my legs, and I’m actually teary. When we started the interview today, Jimmy Parr said, “I can’t watch that movie without tearing up.” It’s so powerful, Kate. It’s why it is my very favorite documentary film. As you know from my list of documentaries, I’ve seen a lot of great ones. It’s incredibly powerful. This is the first time I’m hearing that you felt lonely doing that movie, but I totally understand why. Kate: If there’s something that I learned from that, it’s what I would repeat to film students when I used to teach: It is really worth taking risks. You sometimes have to go out and not judge at all. You have to ignore what other people might think or absolutely dismiss the fact that you perhaps don’t have any support — financial or otherwise — from the world as a filmmaker or writer or any business. When you feel something in your heart, follow it. Debbie: Beautiful.

Finding Support and Inspiration

Debbie: You’re a mom and your kids are a little bit older now. But how was it juggling work with having two kids? When you’re doing a movie, you’re really focused. Did you have extra help and support? Did you bring your kids along when you were filming? Kate: Other than for a couple of film festivals, my kids weren’t that involved. Now they are. Now they do my transcripts. My son does Photoshop work for almost every film I do. It helped to have a really supportive partner who could be a co-parent. We always could just

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The Life and Inspirations of a Documentary Filmmaker Featuring Kate Davis Award-winning Documentary Filmmaker, Musician, Wife and Mom

trade off. Otherwise, it helped editing at home. I do a lot of the work at home — with a lot of interruptions — but it’s not like I disappeared to a film office until 10 at night. I was physically around, even though sometimes it was a little hard to get things done. That probably made the difference. Debbie: Is there anybody outside of David and your family that, in general, gives you support for your work? Kate: Sheila Nevins and Lisa Heller at HBO. Since Southern Comfort, they have been there, believing that I can do the work. It’s not that they sign up and commission everything that I bring to them. No, not at all. It has to work for them. But once I’m working for Sheila, she really lets me go. There’s a lot of trust there, and I deeply appreciate that because it’s not always the case with big networks. Debbie: Right. Kate: I’ve had some great experiences with collaborative teams. Right now, I’m working with Tamara Weiss on Martha’s Vineyard, doing a film on kids of rock-and-roll icons who themselves are musicians. It’s called Born into the Gig, and we’re having a great time doing that. I like to also mix it up, and I’ve discovered that it’s even OK to work with friends. Not just OK. It can be a really good experience. Debbie: Right. There is something very special. Obviously, I work with my husband on a lot of things, and it really has enriched my life. I’ve watched your relationship with David enrich yours. It feels that way, so nicely said. We have some questions from Women on Fire, and I want to ask you a couple of those in a moment. But every once in a while, we just throw in a little lightening quiz. Are you up for it? It’s five really quick questions. Kate: Sure. Debbie: OK. Favorite documentary film other than your own? You should see the face she’s making! What’s your favorite documentary film other than your own. Kate: That’s a hard one. There’s so many — The Cove, Man on Wire, Ross McElwee’s Backyard. I recently saw Matt Heineman’s great new film (City of Ghosts).

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The Life and Inspirations of a Documentary Filmmaker Featuring Kate Davis Award-winning Documentary Filmmaker, Musician, Wife and Mom

Debbie: Your favorite snack or treat while you watch a movie? Do you eat during a movie? Kate: I generally don’t, but I would have to say popcorn. That’s just classic. Debbie: You do like popcorn when you’re watching movies? Kate: I really do. Maybe it’s just an association from the past, to the good old days when we went to the theater. I don’t know. Debbie: Do you eat anything different when you watch your own movies? Kate: Dinner and movie theaters make no sense to me. I’ve done it. I’ve tried it. I will continue to try it. But it’s like I either want to concentrate on the food or see the movie. For people who can handle both, it’s great. I mean, my favorite filmmaker used to be Luis Buñuel. Debbie: Who is that? Kate: He’s a Spanish filmmaker who also made films in Mexico, but it’s slightly surreal. I would have to say Spinal Tap is a great favorite film, except that’s it not quite a documentary. Debbie: But no, that is genius. Is there any film director that you think your work has been influenced by? Kate: I’ve been influenced by some of the vérité filmmakers like Ricky Leacock or Ross [McElwee] or Fred Wiseman, in terms of trying to get spontaneous authentic footage. I also like the humor of some of the more quirky fiction filmmakers, even Quentin Tarantino, as strange as that may sound. Debbie: Not at all. Kate: Or Rob Reiner, as I said with Spinal Tap, or Christopher Guest. That all probably fed into a film we made called Pucker Up: The Fine Art of Whistling. It was a great experience finding and uncovering the world of whistling, which is more poignant and philosophical than I ever imagined. It’s also really hysterical. Debbie: How did that film come to you? Kate: That came to me during one of those vacuums in my career where I didn’t know what to do. I remembered once having a beer with a guy, and we were joking about a film about whistling. I said, “Oh, yeah. What about that?” I jumped on the internet, and there was an international competition coming up. That was the beginning.

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The Life and Inspirations of a Documentary Filmmaker Featuring Kate Davis Award-winning Documentary Filmmaker, Musician, Wife and Mom

Debbie: That is a movie that you should see. It’s really great. OK, some questions from our members. Nancy Grim of Mertztown, Pennsylvania, asks, “How do you prioritize and make time for everything?” Kate: I don’t know if I’m so good at prioritizing because the work usually comes first. It’s a struggle to go, “Nope! I’ve got to balance that with exercise and hanging out with my daughter.” I don’t have a problem getting to work. It’s really just fitting in everything else. I keep trying. I’m not sure there’s ever a perfect balance. Debbie: Holly Getty of New York City asks, “Kate, what practices do you use to keep yourself feeling balanced in your life?” What’s a daily practice or a practice for you? Kate: It’s deciding that there are other things that have to be fit into the day and just trying to be disciplined about that. It’s getting away from the editing table and the phone calls and emails that need to be done and just saying, “Nope! This is my hour for a beach walk or being with a friend.” At night, I like to socialize. I think it’s really important. Debbie: So just really consciously paying attention. Kate: Yes, pay attention to the hours. Debbie: That’s great. Sitara Ahmed from Belleair Beach, Florida, asks — because I told them that you were shy and this is powerfully that — “How do you overcome shyness? I get shy sometimes, too, and I can’t even speak in front of a lot of people.” Is your shyness like that? That you can’t speak in front of people? I don’t think so. Kate: No, I generally can get up and just do it. Debbie: What would you say to Sitara? Kate: I’m not actually sure why I come across as shy, but I do. It is important to overcome shyness, and for me to really believe that I can do this and reframe whatever insecurities I have into a positive light. Debbie: Do you have a current woman role model? Is there somebody that you draw strength from on that front? Kate: All kinds of people are role models, including a conglomeration of friends. I love the work of Heidi Ewing, a great filmmaker who did Jesus Camp and Detropia and many other

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The Life and Inspirations of a Documentary Filmmaker Featuring Kate Davis Award-winning Documentary Filmmaker, Musician, Wife and Mom

films. And I draw strength from my girlfriends from high school. One, Ginny Pye, is coming out with her third novel, and there’s something about her absolute commitment to doing what she loves that I find inspiring. What I try not to do is set myself up for having to make the next blockbuster hit because it doesn’t work that way. I think good work just comes from focusing on what I care about first.

Current Projects and Passions

Debbie: Do you do more than one film at a time? Kate: Yes. Right now, I’m doing three. Debbie: And they’re in different stages? Kate: This year, they were a little bit on top of each other. They were all coming together at the same time, so it was a real challenge. I don’t recommend that, even though it sounds like an embarrassment of riches. I’m not really complaining in the cosmic sense, but I think I’m probably happiest being really immersed in one project. I did two films for HBO about two “driving while black” stories and then I’m doing Born into the Gig, which is just turning the corner and finishing. Debbie: Right. Sally Taylor was here last year and told us about you and doing Born into the Gig. Can you give us a little sneak preview on what that movie is and when we might see it in a theater? Kate: We hope to be done this fall. It is an interesting sort of musical, psychological exploration of what it’s like to be a kid of a rock-and-roll icon, and how, if you decide to go into the family business and be a musician yourself, that’s really living in the shadows of greatness. It’s also about the incredible attention that these kids have watched their parents get. It’s a very tough road in a funny way, even though a lot of the public imagines that it’s an easy, pre-paved road to stardom. It’s really not. Music in general is a tough nut to crack. So what we have are these surprising, intimate, funny, passionate, driven portraits of five kids. Debbie: Can you say who they are? Kate: Sally and Ben are two of them.

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The Life and Inspirations of a Documentary Filmmaker Featuring Kate Davis Award-winning Documentary Filmmaker, Musician, Wife and Mom

Debbie: Right. Sally and Ben Taylor, who are Carly Simon and James Taylor’s kids. Kate: Exactly. And Sally had produced many albums and Ben, who sounds remarkably like his father, is a brilliant songwriter. And we have Chris Stills, who is the son of Stephen Stills from Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young. Chris is an incredible guitar player, singer and songwriter who lives out in Los Angeles. We have Skip Marley, who’s the grandson of Bob Marley and the son of Cedella Marley. We started filming when Skip was 19 and just emerging as a musician, and he recently was on the Grammy’s with Katie Perry and has had hits. We just caught him right at this incredible moment in his life, and those are big shoes to fill for him. We filmed Kori Withers, who is the daughter of Bill Withers, arguably one of the greatest songwriters of our time, who wrote “Ain’t No Sunshine” and “Lean on Me” — songs that everybody knows even if they don’t know Bill Wither’s name. Kori just finished her first album, and we filmed her doing that in New York City. She speaks extremely eloquently about her admiration for her father and her also being incredibly intimidated by him, and the process of being an artist. Debbie: This is so exciting. I can’t wait for this movie. Kate: It’s a nice mix, I hope, of new music that people haven’t heard with incredible stories from their past. The parents themselves are in the film so you meet a lot of characters. Debbie: That’s wonderful. My last question is simply, what are you currently on fire about in your life? You have so many things going on, but is there one thing that you haven’t shared today that you’re on fire about? Kate: I’m really excited about the Sandra Bland film that I’m doing. I feel like it’s a calling. I haven’t felt this since Southern Comfort. She was remarkable as a person, as an activist. It is a really dramatic, mysterious and highly racially charged story, which I think will help people look at the Sandra Bland case differently so that we can all listen to her message more closely. Sandra is the main voice in this, and her story can help break down barriers a little like Robert Eads (in Southern Comfort) because she was educated and spoke so eloquently about these very issues. So I’m excited. She’s really a rare person indeed. Debbie: Having you here today makes me think about just getting one film after another of yours and watching the one’s I haven’t seen and watching again the ones I have seen. Thank

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The Life and Inspirations of a Documentary Filmmaker Featuring Kate Davis Award-winning Documentary Filmmaker, Musician, Wife and Mom

you so much for your dedication to your craft and your life and just the way you continue to move forward. You don’t ever seem to let much stop you. That’s what we as Women on Fire are all about. Kate: Thank you. I feel lucky to have found something I love to do. But I miss music. My other thing I’m on fire about is that I want to come back to this very studio and record a song. Debbie: Yes! Kate: That’s what I really want. Debbie: Did you hear that Jimmy Parr? Kate: Oh, yeah, he’s hired. Debbie: I’ve heard Kate sing. She’s awesome, and her husband is an amazing guitar player. Talk about many more chapters ahead! And I can’t wait to see Born into the Gig. Kate: Thank you. Debbie: Thanks for being here, Kate. Kate: It was a lot of fun. Thank you.

After Interview

Debbie: Hey, Woman on Fire. It’s Debbie. I just interviewed Kate Davis, and while I was doing that we had Women on Fire member Bobbie Celeste from Columbus, Ohio, listening in, as we often do. Bobbie is a dear long-time friend of mine. She’s a psychologist, and I know she saw the movie Southern Comfort. Hello, Bobbie! Bobbie: Hello, Debbie. Debbie: How was listening to that interview? Before Kate and I actually dove in, you and Kate got to meet each other over the phone. Bobbie: That’s right. I felt like I’d already met her a little bit by watching Southern Comfort. As she described in the interview, she’s a warm presence and an empathetic storyteller. You could tell that so much from the film by how loving she was about her characters. It was

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The Life and Inspirations of a Documentary Filmmaker Featuring Kate Davis Award-winning Documentary Filmmaker, Musician, Wife and Mom

wonderful just to hear her talk more about that in the interview. Debbie: I couldn’t agree with you more. I’ve watched Southern Comfort numerous times, and I always marvel that it is like she’s a fly on the wall. I think everybody who listened to the interview today can probably feel that and tell that just from her. She has a very gentle presence, which is the opposite of what we think a hard-charging filmmaker or movie director would be. Bobbie: That’s right. You feel like they’re uncovering the truth, and the truth must be ugly. But the truth that she tells is really about love and our humanity. I love that she talked about how she liked to tell stories that had been overlooked about people who were misunderstood. It touched me a lot. Debbie: As a psychologist, a mom, and a grandmother, you get that. Bobbie: I sure do, and I may have a transgender grandchild. We’re not sure yet. We’re watching and supporting and just letting that unfold. So it was especially meaningful to watch the film done so lovingly about transgender individuals. Debbie: When she did the movie on Robert, the transgender man, her point was that it was so rare. Now, almost 20 years later, thank goodness, you can potentially have someone in your family who’s transgender and, as a grandmother, be involved and bring services or thought to be supportive. Look how far we came in 20 years. Bobbie: We’ve come a long way, and we can thank people like Robert for that. It’s exciting. It was wonderful to hear Kate talk. As a psychologist, I really identified with her talking about getting so intimately involved with somebody and caring about them and having a relationship with them. Then, when the work is done, you have to close that door and step away. That’s what I experience with my clients and maybe you do, too, with your coaching clients from the past. Debbie: I love that you said that as a psychologist. Anybody who knows Bobbie knows that you and Kate could be soul sisters because you are so loving and safe to be with. I actually had that experience a lot when I was a newspaper reporter. I would cover these stories that would touch my heart deeply. I would miss the people. Like she said, you think about them, but you can’t necessarily go back and be friends with them or be in touch. I very much

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The Life and Inspirations of a Documentary Filmmaker Featuring Kate Davis Award-winning Documentary Filmmaker, Musician, Wife and Mom

identified, too. Bobbie, as a long-time Women on Fire member, what gives your life meaning? Bobbie: I think it’s relationships and helping others to see the best in themselves and be able to bring that out, whether it’s getting over psychological barriers that stand in their way or just needing support and affirmation — some of things we talk about in Women on Fire. You do have the gifts you think you have. The path you want to take is wonderful, even if nobody else may be telling you that. Kate said it so well. Even when others aren’t supporting you, you know what’s the right thing to do to move forward. Debbie: When she said she didn’t get any support for Southern Comfort — the amazing movie that ended up winning the Sundance Film Festival version of the Oscars — wasn’t it inspiring that she just kept going? Bobbie: Yes. Debbie: Your point is really powerful here, Bobbie. Tell us what are you on fire about these days. Is there anything happening for you that you want to share? Bobbie: I’m working a lot on how to support people across the age span, whether it’s the 18- year-olds heading to college or older people looking at retirement. I’ve been really struck lately with our developmental stages. How do I help folks through all those stages to figure out how they can take their gifts and make the world a better place? I feel it’s such a difficult time right now and we need everyone’s gifts and skills to make a contribution back to the world in some important way. Debbie: I love it. And there’s no better psychologist and coach than you, Ms. Bobbie. Bobbie: Thank you, Ms. Debbie. Debbie: You’re so welcome. Bobbie: And I really love the support and inspiration and the accountability that I get from Women on Fire. Debbie: I’ll always remember that night I was doing a live chat, and I had to do it off location in Columbus. I remember your smiling face in the door that night. I felt so supported by you.

phone: 855-WOF-LOVE fax: 508-202-0005

The Life and Inspirations of a Documentary Filmmaker Featuring Kate Davis Award-winning Documentary Filmmaker, Musician, Wife and Mom

Thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate it and everything you said about Kate. I wish you all the very best with your family. Thank you for being in my life, Bobbie Celeste. Bobbie: Thank you, Debbie and all the Women on Fire.

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