Page3 JUNE 1983 ______'~~nt------~--~~------~----~~------V I Prof. Sampie Terreblanche Interviewed by. Sunday Times VERLIGTE ADVISOR

In what the "Sunday Times" called "an Call For Alliance Between amazingly frank and controversial interview - For every R800 spent on headlined "IT'S TIME FOR A NEW a white child, lessthan Rl00 ALLIANCE BETWEEN ENGLISH AND is spent on a black child. English And A We must close the educa- " -' Prof. Sampie tion gap as quickly as Terreblanche, the noted verligte academic of "We in the N.P., since the split, now have the New National possible. and one of the Party; and we will need the support of English-speakers ... but .Our growing economy Government's key advisers, told Stanley Uys: the P.F.P have not adapted - what we need now is a New P.F.P.," needs all the skilled people • Since the split in the NP, English said PROF. SAMPIE TERREBLANCHE in an interview with it can' get. We have simply speaking support has increased Stanley Uys of. the Sunday Times, not spent enough on blacks. • The New National Party will unleash But that kind of Below is an extract from They have never counted After the Second World reforming powers of unexpected dynamism . expenditure would put a that interview: the economic cost of War, democratic systems • The tax cápacity of the economy. sets .heavy burden on the whites. There has been a chronic political democratisation. were granted to Third important limits on contitutional and political Yet it will have to be tendency in the National is a Third I World countries, but hardly undertaken: not for change causing it to adapt stage by stage . Party to do too little too World country, with a any of them have remained humanitarian reason - we • If P.F.P. demands were met immediately late. dynamic, modern sector. democracies. are not at that point yet - there would be an economic collapse; a Only since the split have But it is a very small sector . Democracy coupled with ' but to keep the wheels of breakdown in ci~ standards we really had the potential considering that the total a trade union movement this capitalist economy • To bring about evolutionary change we to become a reform party, population numbers nearly generates massive demands turning. and it is perhaps too early 30-million. . . will need to change the hearts and minds of through parliament on the Even that would not be to judge whether, in the new If the blacks sit in whites - and this will take a long time economic system and only enough. We would have to circumstances, the . Parliament. they will have • .The P.F.P. and the English-language highly industrialised improve housing, transport, the bargaining power to press, with certain exceptions, have become a Government will be able to co uritries are able to, recreational and other make all manner of stumbling block to reform, because they want do enough. support the burden. \ facilities for the newly demands. But the tax But I believe the New South Africa is a IimiJeil skilled people. to go too far too fast capacity of the economy National Party, as I call it, democracy - limited to the All the services, like • South Africa can proceed up to a certain sets important ilmits on will unleash reforming whites. I don't think this is pensions, for which the point at this stage; and then to a further point constitutional and political powers of unexpected justified any longer. The TERREBLANCHE Government is responsible at a later stage • change. dynamism and that in 10 base needs to be broadened, reflect discrimination. But Why did Britain refuse to is more than a • The N.P. have made adaptations, but the years South Africa will be a but in such a way and at equalisation at this stage is very different country. allow one man one vote in such a pace that it does not policy. It's a structure. And P.F.P. has not adapted; we have a New it's not possible to abolish just not possible. National Party - now what we need is a New We can't talk about the 1832 Reform Acts? over-stress the economy. All we can do at this Afrikaner unity any longer. Because the country was a structure overnight. P.F.P. stage is to narrow the gap, stiU in the early stages of the SCALE DOWN . All we can do is to start (Sunday Times Interview 27th March 1983) The National Party is no and whites must realise they industrial ..evolution. STANDARDS dismantling our structure longer the party of will have to take a knock Even modest reforms in over a very, very long HUMAN FACE Afrikaner unity. What and make big sacrifices. 'tapse, a breakdown in civi- South Africa would make it period. happened last year was • Many' English- . Another favourite lised standards. Here, I am necessary for whites to scale But there is no realisation traumatic. There was a speakers will accept this but demand of the P.F.P. and not talking about the white down their standard of of' this among English- complete change of attitude many others often dismiss the English-language Press man's luxurious lifestyle, living overthe next 10or 20 speakers - that it will within the N.P. Afrikaner the Prime Minister's is for civil rights without but about South Africa's years by at least 20 percent: necessarilyhave to be a long unity has been finally initiative as "cosmetic". discrimination. civilised standards, as an that would be the price we and painful process, even shattered. Have they done their Discrimination can be industrialised, Western- English-speakers are would have to pay for.' a for the richest whites, and homework on the economic abolished though only if orientated country. modest process of demo- possibly particularly for welcome to join the implications of putting too there is one man one vote. As whites we are all cratisation. them. The problems of National Party. About 25 much bargaining power too Personally, I don't like terribly spoiled. To bring percent of them supported' If and Indians South Africa cannot be discrimination. I admit about evolutionary change ' acquired bargaining power solved by economic growth early in the hands of poor the N.p. in the 1977 general and unproductive people? there are indefensible forms we will need to change the elections, and possibly the on a Parliamentary level - alone. The Government's of it, but Ialso believe it is hearts and minds of whites, same percentage in the 1981 and blacks for what it is Consider the gap between constitutional reforms are possible to give apartheid a and this will take a long general elections. Since the worth on a eonfederal level Staté expenditure on whites much more significant than .more human face, and I time. For this we will need split in the N.P., English- - and if we wanted to and blacks. To close the is generally recognised. hope that is what is the help of the Afrikaans speaking support, we gap, Government spending Once they get off the happening now, churches, whose role will be believe, has increased. would .have to be at least ground and acquire their H the Government meets crucial. The N.P. for too long one-and-a-half tirnes the own momentum, they are the P_F.P's demands there was an Afrikaner clan, and GNP and this is just not going to be truly significant. will be an economic col- cont. on pg. 8. with-people like Treurnicht Story of the. Businessman possible. on its right wing who would blame the English-speaker MR. CHRIS HEUNIS, Minister of for not supporting the Consitutional Development, says that Government? But the whenever he met a certain important English- situation has changed speaking businessman, the man would say to . entirely. him: "Please teUthe Prime Minister I supperr him." Mr 'Chris*** Heunis Eventually, Mr Heunis replied: "No, I wiU (Minister of Constitutional not tell him until I am sure you have voted for Development) says that a National Party candidate." To which the whenever he met a certain businessman replied: "But I can't do that - important English-speaking .I am chairman of a P.F.P. branch." businessman, the man • 'This is not good enough, writes Prof. would say to him: "Please Terreblanche. If people support the Prime tell the Prime Minister I support him." Minister in his initiative they must also support Eventually, Mr Heunis him in his struggle against the right wing. replied: "No, I will not tell him until I am sure you have voted for a National . It was only during the spend adequately on Party candidate." To which First World War that education and on improving the businessman replied: Britain and the industria- their quality of life, whites "But I can't do that - I am lised countries got effective would not be able to chairman of a P.F.P. universal franchise. maintain their present branch." Once a country has an position of privilege and electoral democracy there is protection. SUPPORT IN inevitably a welfare state - . The way the English- HIS STRUGGLE health, education, welfare language press talks, one This is no good. 'If people spending, medical services. would imagine that if support the Prime Minister Thé crucial factor then is apartheid were to be lifted in his initiative they must whether it can afford this tomorrow, the economy also support him in his economic price. would jump like a jack out . struggle against the right of a box and there would be wing. After Versailles, demo- 10 or 15 percent growth. It would be helpful if cratic constitutions .were There could instead be a there was not such a clear- .granted to all the new breakdown. Even at a 15 cut division between the countries in the Balkans and percent growth rate, the N.P. on the one hand and elsewhere, and all, with the economy would be the P.F.P. and the English- exception of Hungary, overstrained under. the language Press on the other. became fascist. demands that would come EXpeRIENCE THAT GOES BACK 80 YEARS. But the problem is that The western countries from whites and neither the P.F.P. nor the managed to survive demo- . democratised blacks. English-language press are cratisation, except What we are engaged in, being honest - they refuse Germany, which could not I hope, is structural reform Your contact: Hannes, Nelson, Alston or Trevor. withstand the economic to take a clear stand on that will at the same time 682 Main Street - Tel. 54 2481 or: Chari, Keith, Peter. what I call the economic demands created by a clip the wings of the 100 Caledon Street, Uitenhage. T.el.27 823 costs of the constitutional democratic system and bargaining groups to McCANN-ERICKSON .'.',;.l,! >' reforms. turned to Nazism .. , stabilise the situation. Page4 ------YIeWf1Olnt JUNE 1983

Our community leaders are steering AWAY FROM PATH OF PARTY POLITICS By the Viewpoint Municipal Reporter. "AN unpleasant surpnse awaits tbose poHticians wbo think that, with the coming of the new constitutional dispensation, they will be able to sit in opposition and criticise. DepoHtisation bas become an estabHsbed fact in the President's Council. In due course, it will filter· through on all levels, until people in local management also observe that matters are moving away from tradi- tional party poHtical positions. Co-responsibility will demand tbat people reflect ,OIi the nature of fheir own interests as weD as those of others wbo also inhabit South Africa." . So said ,MR N.F., PROF. ABRAHAM GAGIN OF TIlE Hebrew University's Department of Atmospheric Sciences explaining Israel's T~URNICHT, chairman MUNICIPAL . cloud-seeding success to the delegation from South Africa's of the President's Council RECORD? , Water Researcb Commission tbree of wbose members may Committee for Community Relations, on a visit to Port be seen in tbe front row Oeft to rigbt): Dr P.J.T. Roberts; Elizabeth last month. Mr , Mr P.E. Odendaal, Mr J.G. du Plessis. In tbe second row Treurnicht is the former MP on tbe left is Dr M.R. Henzen. Photo: Jewish Herald. for Piketberg and chairman of a commission of inquiry into the fishing industry. He- SA Scientists in Israel: was a member of the renowned ' Theron- Commission of Inquiry.into Leaming to thesocio-economic circum- stances of the Coloured Increase Rainfall Communities. • At a meeting of com- munity ,of the Eastern JERUSALEM: A team of Soutb African scientists, Jea.deIs Cape, representatives were impeDed by the prediction that demand for water in CLR. BEN OLIVIER, unanimously agreed that cb~ of tbe Committee South Africa will exceed supply by the year 2020, bas bonesty was of the greatest CQUNCILLOR TERRY for tbe Rebabilitation of visitedIsrael to learn bow to increase rainfall. importance wben the HERBST wbo may enter bis National Servicemen whicb ' The programme of tbe different race groups were in name in the Deputy Mayoral is attending to Heroes' Acre, group in Israel ,included ------1 consultation with each other, stakes in September this the area in the Forest Hill meetings with a team of and wben they deliberated year. Cemetry dedicated to' the We will put it back to top form- Hebrew University expea:ts in together over conditions in .He bas been approached fallen heroes of Port weatber modification the South African milieu. by a number of bis col- Eliz"betb. Clr. Olh:ier headed by Professor Mr Treurnicht also told leagues on tbe City Council expects tbat tbe plans for CALL OUR SERVICE Abraham Gagin, visits to the delegates that' local com- to make himself available, Heroes Acre will be laboratories at the. univer- munity relations committees REPRESENTATIVE WHO but has not yet decided on presented to tbe PE sity's department of should not try todo the work the issue. ' Municipality, witbin a atmospheric' sciences, and " of the various city councils " "It will depend on wbo month. WILL GLADLY ADVISE observations of cloud- and management commit- else will be in tbe running. I seeding tecbniques and tees. Their task was to would not want to be re- YOU facilities. promote mutual relations by sponsibie for someone, Gagin and his colleegnes helping the various race perhaps better qualified than have achieved international . groups to get to know and I, not getting the position," of understand each other better. be told VIEWPOINT. "For example," he said, "whites were frequently Mr Herbst, wbo is semi- unaware of various obstacles retired and fully bilingual, which inconvenienced and bas not missed one commit- obstructed people of colour tee or Council meeting in the in their everyday .lives." current municipal year. I------i Apart from the Community Services and Administration CAPE TOWN: Speakingin and General Purposes Com- favour of the Bill for the mittee (deputy cbairman of KEVil MARKSTEllIER. PMOtIE414111 furtherance of Local tbe latter) be has also Government, MR J~S attended every meeting of KLEYNHANS former PE the Utilities, Works and NEEDED Mayor now MP for Algoa, Traffic and Policy and MR FRIKKIE KOTZE, Park, said that Minister Resources Committees. replied to criticism of Chris Heunis had for the '. This is believed to be Government I!olicy on the past two years been involved a municipal record equalled squatter probleÏn at a spedaI with this activity, and by few Councillors in the meeting of the Diaz Coundl therefore the allegation that' history of tbe City Council. and representatives of S.A:S bEADI~G AIR CONDIT10NING CONTRACTORS the Bill had not received f------I agriculture in the region. MISS MICHELLE LEVY consensus for its intro- Mr Kotze, also a City ,WE SERVICE ALL MAKES OF 'AIR has been appointed sales duction was entirely without Councillor and member of CONDITIOliNG UIITS manager (Eastern Cape), foundation. Replying to Mr the East Cape for the Holiday Inn group. Colin Eglin of the PPP, he Administration Board, added that the suggestion reacted to MR E.W. that the NP achieve TRENT'S (MPC for PE 'APA Computer Syste~ consensus with the PPP was Central) remarks, that the "laughable" since that party Government should do (Established ,19641 had from the very beginning something immediately and 1. Radio Shack Model In Microcomputer - 84K boycotted everything in the ,that Mr L. Koch, director of 2. 2 lit 180 lit diac drives . Np's initiative towards E.C.A.B., does not know 3. l:lO cps C.ITOH 8610 printer change. how many squatters there 4. Opf,trating system and mlQluals are in the area; the highest 6. Integrated debtors, creditors and general ledger • In spite of the loca!' authorities in the country accounting package press' attempts to depict a should be ' contacted 8. Operator training and installaU~n of accounting constitutional crisis,. with the otherwise the problem would package' ' ' "new deal bordering on get out of hand. 7. Full coUrse on programming in baaie collapse" headlines, leaders Mr Kotze said that even if , ALLTHIS FOI oln of the Coloured and Indian E.C.A.B. worked 24 hours 15 395 Management Committee-s per day, certain land factors (Assomac) have since come prohibited the solution of

~~~'Io.J.l.f. out in support of the Bill. the problem; it did not help (See Stop Press in 'page one.) i matters to point fmgers of ~ I I' , accusation, without ROODT, ti ~"~"'~ • An astute business- Jl producing proposals for a ,man (as well as politician) convenor of tbe EP Rugby solution. . - .. ~. Mr Kleynhans' Panorama the new Head of Concept Selection Committee, Mr Trent said he merely Estates in' Westering recently Communications in PE, was recently received a farewell meant that the problem was won the Trophy from the for a while witb Soutb presentation from the Union .so great that even Mr Koch United Building Society for , African EmbaSSy in Madrid, on tbe occasion of bis did not know how many can ALAN A1.CHIN or JIM STEEL at 33&76& for more information on this low cost solution. the UBS agency in the and in the Protocol section transfer to Pretoria after squatters' there were: He had 46 YORK ROAD. PHONE 336766, 334668, 333430 Eastern Cape with the of tbe Department of many years of sterling every sympathy with the task largest turnover. Foreign Affairs. service to tbe sport. of the Board. \