Wednesday Volume 575 5 February 2014 No. 118 HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD) Wednesday 5 February 2014 £5·00 © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2014 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Open Parliament licence, which is published at www.parliament.uk/site-information/copyright/. 253 5 FEBRUARY 2014 254 and valuable, and sits well with the efforts of Her House of Commons Majesty’s Government to ensure a solid base of information to inform the electorate about the decision they are Wednesday 5 February 2014 being asked to take. 14. [902352] Caroline Dinenage (Gosport) (Con): Will The House met at half-past Eleven o’clock the Secretary of State assure the House that he is aware of the fears and concerns of businesses about the PRAYERS uncertainty posed by an independent Scotland, not only the currency but the fact that interest rates and borrowing costs could be set from outside Scotland? [MR SPEAKER in the Chair] Mr Carmichael: Indeed, the hon. Lady makes a point that was made eloquently—and, I thought, in a very measured way—by the Governor of the Bank of England Oral Answers to Questions in his speech last week in Edinburgh. He made the point that a currency union such as that proposed inevitably involves ceding some degree of national sovereignty—the SCOTLAND very opposite of what independence is supposed to be about. One wonders why any nationalist would, in all sincerity, genuinely want one. The Secretary of State was asked— Angus Robertson (Moray) (SNP): This week the Financial Scottish Business Leaders: Independence Debate Times reported that an independent Scotland should have healthier state finances than the rest of the UK. So 1. Nicholas Soames (Mid Sussex) (Con): What far, more than 1,200 business owners and directors have steps his Department is taking to encourage Scottish declared their support for a yes vote by joining the business leaders to participate in the independence pro-independence business group, Business for Scotland. debate. [902338] Does the Secretary of State recognise their role in the Scottish economy and welcome their contribution to The Secretary of State for Scotland (Mr Alistair the referendum debate? Carmichael): I speak to businesses from across Scotland regularly and frequently. In those meetings we highlight Mr Carmichael: I will, of course, speak to businessmen the importance of the decision the Scottish people will and women of all views at any time in Scotland. The make on 18 September, and encourage them to get difficulty for the hon. Gentleman is that the most recent involved in this important debate. polling exercise undertaken in the business community showed that roughly three quarters of business people Nicholas Soames: Has my right hon. Friend seen the in Scotland intend to vote no. They know that independence recent intervention of Bob Dudley, the chief executive would be bad for their business. of British Petroleum—which, after all, has a major stake in Scotland—whose views should be taken seriously? Angus Robertson: All the evidence from polling in Does he agree that other business leaders with a big recent weeks shows a substantial swing to the yes campaign, interest in Scotland’s future should follow that example, and the polls also show that by a majority of 4:1, the and set out clearly the implications and consequences public wish to see a debate between the Prime Minister of independence for their employees, suppliers, and and First Minister Alex Salmond. How long can the shareholders? Prime Minister continue supporting everybody else becoming part of the debate, but run away from one Mr Carmichael: I have seen and studied the intervention himself? from Bob Dudley yesterday.The terms of that intervention do not surprise me at all as they very much reflect the Mr Carmichael: Make no mistake, Mr Speaker, we concerns expressed to me when I speak to businessmen know exactly why the nationalists want that debate and women across Scotland who represent businesses between the Prime Minister and Alex Salmond: they are of all sizes. They all tell me the same: they see independence trying to set the decision up as a contest between as being bad for their business. It brings uncertainties, Scotland and England, which it absolutely is not. This uncertainty means risk, and that is bad for their business is about Scotland’s best-placed constitutional future, future. and it is to be decided by Scots in Scotland. 11. [902349] Mr Brian H. Donohoe (Central Ayrshire) Sir Menzies Campbell: My right hon. Friend will be (Lab): Has the Secretary of State had any meetings aware that the First Minister dismissed Mr Dudley’s with Sir Tom Hunter, who has been pretty vocal about remarks as being purely a personal opinion. In the light the whole issue, and, if he has not, will he have such a of that, may we take it that all those in the business meeting? sector who have apparently subscribed to independence can have their opinions dismissed in the same way? Mr Carmichael: I recently met Sir Tom Hunter at a business breakfast organised by the Prime Minister in Mr Carmichael: I would dismiss nobody’s opinion No. 10 Downing street. The hon. Gentleman will have and I would engage with people of all shades of opinion seen the recent initiative by Sir Tom, which is interesting across this debate, but the fact is that Bob Dudley is not 255 Oral Answers5 FEBRUARY 2014 Oral Answers 256 a lone voice. He is part of a growing chorus from the other stakeholders in Scotland on what the impact of business community in Scotland who highlight the dangers welfare reforms and the challenges of implementation that would come from independence. They all say the have been for them, their services and their tenants. same—it would be a risk to their business because of the uncertainty of the future position of the currency Dr Whiteford: The Minister will therefore know that and membership of the European Union. On those two 80% of the households in Scotland affected by the key issues, the nationalists have no comfort for business. bedroom tax are the home of someone with a disability. He knows that there is a mismatch between the available Margaret Curran (Glasgow East) (Lab): As the Secretary housing stock and the needs of tenants, and he knows of State has said, it is welcome that the chief executive that Scottish MPs, including Government Back Benchers, of BP and the outgoing chief executive of Sainsbury’s voted overwhelmingly against this policy. Will the have both spelled out substantial concerns about Government now lift the legal restrictions on discretionary independence. Does the Secretary of State agree that all housing payments to allow the Scottish Government to businesses, trade unions and voluntary organisations mitigate the impact of this nonsense of a policy? have a right to be heard without insult, intimidation or fear of the consequences, regardless of which side of David Mundell: What I do know is that the hon. Lady the debate they are on? has a brass neck. She is a member of the Scottish Affairs Committee, but fails to take up her place. This Mr Carmichael: I do, absolutely, and in that regard I issue was debated in detail yesterday and if she had commend the efforts of the Scottish Daily Mail, which been present she would know that the Scottish Government in recent weeks has sought to highlight the poison already have the powers to take measures if they genuinely coming into the debate from some of the cyber- believe there are concerns with welfare policies. interventions. Other hon. Members have also raised this issue. Whatever the outcome on 18 September we will Mr Alan Reid (Argyll and Bute) (LD): I am pleased all have to work together in Scotland for its best future, that the Government listened when I pointed out the and that will not be possible if we allow the well to be problems that withdrawal of the spare room subsidy, poisoned in the way the cyber-Nats in particular seem also known as the bedroom tax, would cause for tenants determined to do. on islands and in remote parts of the mainland. I am delighted that the Government have given more than Margaret Curran: I thank the Secretary of State for £400,000 to Argyll and Bute council to help affected that response, but may I press him a little further? tenants, and I hope that that generous allocation will Business leaders have told me of intimidatory tactics continue in future years. being used in an attempt to stop them intervening in the independence debate. One leader of a FTSE company David Mundell: I commend the hon. Gentleman for told Robert Peston of the BBC that the Scottish pointing out the specific issues raised in island communities Government “became very aggressive” when he tried to and by rurality generally, and that is why the Government raise concerns about independence. Just yesterday, Bob have provided additional discretionary housing payments Dudley of BP was dismissed by the yes campaign as “a for rural areas. British nationalist”. Will the Secretary of State join me in condemning the pattern of behaviour that we are Single-tier Pension beginning to see in Scotland and say, in the strongest possible terms, that it has no place for us Scots as we 3. Fiona O’Donnell (East Lothian) (Lab): What debate our future? discussions he has had with his ministerial colleagues on increased national insurance costs for public bodies Mr Carmichael: I agree with the hon. Lady on that in Scotland resulting from the introduction of the point in the very strongest terms.