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AD1812-F39-1-005-Jpeg.Pdf Jf. 11 ll..» It sounds like it, yes. Do you remember Dr. Malan saying that at Pauresmith, reported in Die Burger on the 7th March, 1941? No, I don't remember it. No doubt he did. Let me read you one more thing. The following state- ment ; "Do not all at once either reject or accept the New Order of Advocate Pirow in its entirety, study it". B the way, what was the New Order of Advocate Pirow? A political move, but I am afraid that I will have to refresh in my mind before I give y^u details. I ... Shall we say quite short, this : A movement which supported the Nazis during the war? If you say sc. I don't know. I would h-i-ve to look up. Don't you know it? Don't you remember that advocate Pirow's movement wholeheartedly supported th^ Nazis during the war? It may have. You don't know it? I am not prepared to make a statement without refreshing my memory on these... You don't know that after his visit to Germany Advocate Pirow came back and said what a great man he thought Hitler was? That may be. You remember that? Actually, no. You don't remember it? I see. Anyway, let us go on. The speaker says "Don't accept or reject him in its entirety, study it. By analysing it we find first of all that with one exception there is nothing in it" - that is in Pirow1s New Order - "which has not been published in the Party's programme of principles and action". Now, let ther^ be no confusion. May I indicate to you that the Party referred to there is the Nationalist Party. "..or what would naturally proceed out of the foundation of a republic or what would n t be self-evident when the capitalistic system cumes to a fall here, CI S 111 0 S "0 people expect that it will. You will find for instance, that we must accept the right attitude as regards the colour ques- CTSL/3 tion. The Party is quite definite about that, as about the Jewish quesxion". This is taken from Die Republikeinse orde, and it is a declaration, a statement made by Dr. Malan. Do you recognise it? No, I do not recall it. Have you read this Die Republikeinse (Jrde? Yes. And did it contain such statements, statements to that effect? Speaking from memory, I should think, yes. You do kn:w the fact, of course, that Hitler's Government dissolved the Trade Unions? Yes. let me give you a speech mc.de, and let me ask y^u whe- ther you remember this? "The Nationalist Party regards Trade Unions as an evil and will abolish them". Do you remember Dr. G. E. N. Ross, Nationali t Party candidate for Johannesburg "est saying that in 1942? No, I don't remember the statement, but I knew opinions of that sort were expressed. Yes, by the Nationalist Party speakers? By speakers belonging to the Nationalist Party, yes. «re you suggesting that that has not been the endeavour of the Nationalist Party or the..? No, no. I am merely bexng careful to say exactly what I know at the moment. You weren't trying to find a distinction between that which you said and what I put to you? No, I am only being careful, as I say. Tould you dgr^e that Fascism and Nazism preaches the inevitability, and what is wor e, or whar is more, if you prefer me xo put it in that way, the desirability of war? Nazism did. I am not quite c.nvined that Fascism - yes, I think fascism did, too. Just in order to refresh your memory, lex me show you how much xh„ gentleman mentioned by you, Benito Mussolini, preached that. Perhaps if I gave you a staxement, a quotation, you might recognise it as being axtribuxed to Mussolini. "Above all, fascism believes neither in til- possibility nor in the utility of perpetual peace. 'Tar alone brings up to its highest tension all human energy c.nd puts the stamp of hobility upon the peoples who have the courage to meet it. Thus a doctrine which is founded upon this harmful postulate of peace is hostile to fascism". Nothing could be more clear than that, could it? Yes, one of Mussolini's speeches.. I don't know why you are so uncertain as to whether that was part of fascist ideology? I wanted to locate the exact reference as far as possible. 9 But didn't you in fact know ttu.t the fascists from beginning to end have always preached the glory of war, when I put the question to you initially? I think I could give you quotations, if I had time to look theia up, wh_.t Italian fascist writers, that is the real fascist writer, which modify their position in this regard, in which they differ from nazism and I am not sure to what extent that ... Fascism becomes modified from time to time? As all political doctrines. As does communism? Jommunism makes - a part of its tactics is to modify itself from time to time. That I don't believe was ever mentioned by you during the time you gave your evidence in chief? I think I referred to tactics, to communist tactics in tbk. course of... I am talking not about tactics. I am talkihg about expressions of policy. 7ar or peace. Those are not tactics, that is policy? In the communist literature that falls under tactics and strategy. ..'ar or peace - is that a master of policy or is it not? Yes. So it is policy for th- fascists and strategy for the communists? Both. Let us listen to Hitler on the same subject. "In eternal warfare, mankind has become great. In eternal peace h/t> - 41a. mankind would be ruined". Rem&mber that? That is the sort of thing that Hitler was saying, wasn't it? That is the sort of thing that he was saying constantly. Do you concede that a demand for peace and peaceful negotiation instead of war, is a demand made "by people, orga- nisations, parties, who are not communist and are in some instances even opposed to communism? Yes, there is a demand for peace over the "world. Is your answer to my question yes? Yes. Do you concede that such people, organisations, parties as I havo just described have condemned British action in Malaya, United States action in Korea and British action in North Africa? Do you concede that? —- Yes. Do you concede that such parties, organisations, people, who, as I have already pointed out, are not necessarily commu- nist and in some instances are opposed to communism, have supported the World Peace Movement and in so doing have allied themselves with the communist states that support it? — They supported the World Peace Movements in its beginnings but very soon people who were not associated with communists or the majority of people who were not associated with communists, separated themselves from the .Vorld Peace Movement and attendant propaganda for peace, _,nd did it inaependenxly. Now, an answer to my question is - my question was this. Did they or did they not support the Peace Movement, and in doing so did they ally themselves with the communist states that did support it? For a short time they sypported it... ./hat do you mean by a short time? How many years? I should imagine for about two years or so. No longer? Approximately That. "hen do ycu say they disassociated themselves? It was aboux 1952 when it became evidence - I beg your pardon, it was earlier. In 1950 it became evidence that the Bureau of 42a. the World Peace Movement was controlled by communists and then many people separated themselves from it. So by 1955 this separation had already taken place? That separation had already taken place. Who is Thomas Mann? A very famous German novelist. Non-communist? AS far as I know, yes. I know him as a novelise, not in any other way. Do you deny that he supported the World Peace - the World assembly for Peace in 1955 - June the 22nd to June 29th? —— I have no evidence to it. Do you deny it, is my question? I have no evidence on the matter, I can't spekk about it. Who is Senator Georg Gayo Branting of Sweden? You know of him of course. Do you deny that he supported the World Assembly for Peace? I have no evidence on the point. But you have told us that the majority of these people organisations and parties, had divorced themselves from the World Peace Movement by 1952? Darge numbers. Oh, I see, now it is large numbers, not the majority? What do you mean now? Do you mean the majority or do you mean large numbers? Large numbers. That is better still. Do you know Pastor Martin Niemoeller? Yes. Very non-communist and anti-communist, not so? Yes Do you deny that he was one of the supporters in 1955? No evidence on it. Or Theodore Adams, Minister of the First Baptist Ch rch, or Professor Fletcher of Harvard University? Or Dr. Mordecai Johnson, President of Howard University? Or Professor William Robinson, Professor of Theology ^t Butler University, Indianapolis? Or the Reverend Archbishop Gustav Tura of the Lutheran Evangelical Church of Latvia, Dr. Ernst Wilm, President of the Evangelical ^hurch of West- 43a. phalia, that is in Uestern Germany? Yes.
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