TRANSCRIPT

SHOW AIRING MARCH 27, 2011

Host: Roland Martin

Guests:

Panel 1: Janell Snowden, VH-1 News Host; Kevin Frazier, Correspondent, “”; and Jawn Murray, Entertainment Reporter and Contributor, “The Tom Joyner Morning Show”

Panel 2: Actors Vanessa Bell Calloway, Tichina Arnold and ; and Anthony Mark Hankins, Fashion Designer

Panel 3: Actors -Whitfield, Essence Atkins, Tatyana Ali and Wendy Davis

Panel 4: Sonja Norwood, Talent Manager; Kenya More, Actor-Producer; and Mario Van Peebles and Bill Duke, Motion Picture Directors

Ralph Johnson and Verdine White, Earth, Wind and Fire

Comedians: Kim Whitley, Damon Williams, Buddy Lewis and J. Anthony Brown

1

TV One – Washington Watch K. Wills Transcripts Contact/Producer: Jay Feldman Story/Angle: “Washington Watch” – March 27, 2011 Show (HEAD- LINES )

MR. ROLAND MARTIN: Black Hollywood tops our agenda this week. I talked

with actresses Vanessa Bell Calloway, Tichina Arnold, Tasha Smith, and fashion

designer Anthony Mark Hankins about the image of African-American women in

Hollywood. Plus, actresses Salli Richardson-Whitfield, Essence Atkins, Tatyana Ali,

and Wendy Davis on how First Lady Michelle Obama is changing negative perceptions

of Black women. Also, producers Sonja Norwood and Kenya Moore, along with

directors Mario Van Peebles and Bill Duke, share how they are changing the game and

getting their projects produced without going through traditional channels. No

“Washington Watch” Hollywood special would be complete without some music. Ralph

Johnson and Verdine White, co-founders of Earth, Wind and Fire, tell us about their

new project. And they’ll leave you laughing – comedians Kim Whitley, Damon Williams,

Buddy Lewis and J. Anthony Brown round out this special Hollywood edition. All that

and more today on “Washington Watch.”

(SEG- MENT 1 ) MR. MARTIN: Whenever I get a chance, I like to get out of the Capitol Hill

studio. I can’t stand bein’ on that set! Just kidding. Today, I’m coming to you from Los

Angeles, California. Tinseltown is one of the toughest places for African-Americans,

but they’re not letting the odds keep them down. Here to talk about that and other 2 topics: Janell Snowden, my home girl, VH-1 news host; “Entertainment Tonight” correspondent and big-time golfer Kevin Frazier –

MR. KEVIN FRAZIER: [Chuckles.]

MR. MARTIN: -- not really, but I just said that –

MR. FRAZIER: I’m glad you said that.

MR. MARTIN: -- and entertainment reporter and Tom Joyner contributor Jawn

Murray.

Hey, folks. How are we doing?

MS. JANELL SNOWDEN: Hey, good.

MR. JAWN MURRAY: [Crosstalk.]

MR. FRAZIER: Fantastic. Fantastic.

MR. MARTIN: All right, then. Let’s – first thing off, a few weeks ago, [the]

Oscars. Black folks [were] basically nonexistent. If it [weren’t] for Jennifer Hudson presenting and Halle Barry with the tribute to Lena Horne –

MS. SNOWDEN: And Oprah.

MR. MARTIN: -- you didn’t see anyb- -- Oprah as well – you – you didn’t see any of us. And so, what has it been like – discussions you’ve had with people about the lack of Black representation this year at the biggest entertainment ceremony, if you will?

MS. SNOWDEN: I think recently we’ve had actors like Idris Elba and Samuel L.

Jackson and Anthony Mackey speak out and basically talk about the dearth of good

Black roles and – and good, Black movies – which, of course, then brings about the 3 discussion of, you know, the need for more Black productions. I think it was definitely a huge oversight that there were no Black males represented. I mean I understand the heavyweights, Oprah, Halle and Jennifer; but come on. We’re much better represented than that, and you just did not see that at the Oscars.

MR. FRAZIER: No. It was sad, and I – I think that the thing we have to look at is supporting the things that we care about.

MS. SNOWDEN: Yeah.

MR. FRAZIER: And we ha- -- you know, people turn their head[s] when “The

Game” got a 7.7 rating on BET.

MR. MARTIN: Absolutely!

MR. FRAZIER: People turn their head[s] when a movie jumps out of the box office. That’s what we have to do. We have to empower people. And so we[‘ve] got to sit back and stop complaining and put our money where our mouth is. Don’t complain if you’re not willing to put your money down.

MR. MARTIN: Right.

MS. SNOWDEN: But then –

MR. MURRAY: [Crosstalk]- --

MS. SNOWDEN: -- there’s the argument that those – that that money that you spend at the box office doesn’t translate to Oscars representation, because the people who are judging and the people who are voting are not us.

MR. MURRAY: -- well, then Lion’s Gate has the – and I – I start with Lion’s Gate 4 because I’m talking about “For Colored Girls.” Regardless of what people think about

Tyler Perry’s “For Colored Girls” is a – as an overall film, there are three actors in that movie, at least , that should’ve been nominated for their performances: Kimberly Elise,

Anika Noni Rose, and Thandie Newton. And so we have to also, as filmmakers, challenge the studios to be responsible for making sure that the people who are voting members are getting the screeners and getting the assets that it takes to get our people and – and folks of color nominated at the Big Show.

MR. MARTIN: I’m glad you brought up , because here you[‘ve] got somebody who is doing exactly what we say we want Black folks in –

MR. MURRAY: Yes.

MR. MARTIN: -- Hollywood to do: owning product, controlling product, doing television shows, owning his own studio, providing opportunities; and it’s still not good enough. Folks are still hating. They – w- -- what do you make of that, where, all of a sudden, Tyler Perry’s now the villain –

MR. MURRAY: Ugh!

MR. MARTIN: -- in Hollywood, when it’s not like he green-lights movies at

Universal –

MR. MURRAY: Absolutely.

MR. MARTIN: -- Sony –

MS. SNOWDEN: Yeah.

MR. MARTIN: -- and the rest of these places? 5

MR. FRAZIER: The whole thing is – is a m- -- is a really mixed-up, weird system, because if you ever come on the red carpet, you will notice – and just come to any red carpet – and we’ve all been there –

MS. SNOWDEN: We live there.

MR. FRAZIER: -- and you – and we live on the –

MS. SNOWDEN: Yeah.

MR. FRAZIER: -- red carpet – and you wait long and wide for someone that is in your peer group.

MS. SNOWDEN: Yeah.

MR. FRAZIER: And then when you finally see them, you’re so happy .

MS. SNOWDEN: Yeah.

MR. FRAZIER: You’re so excited. You’re –

MR. MARTIN: I know.

MR. FRAZIER: -- like –

MR. MARTIN: I walked the red carpet.

MR. FRAZIER: -- “Wow.”

MR. MARTIN: Kevin was like –

MS. SNOWDEN: [Crosstalk].

MR. MARTIN: -- “Roland! My dawg!”

MR. FRAZIER: [Chuckles.]

MR. MARTIN: How you doin’?” [Laughs.] 6

MS. SNOWDEN: [Crosstalk] –

MR. FRAZIER: And it – and it’s a problem that, you know, there’s not that push, either. And the n- -- the Tyler Perry thing, I think, is because there’s not talk of what

Tyler Perry’s doing.

MS. SNOWDEN: Yeah.

MR. FRAZIER: When you turn on the shows that we all – or, the channels that we all represent, you don’t see Tyler Perry’s stuff.

MR. MURRAY: I think there’re –

MS. SNOWDEN: And –

MR. MURRY: -- two elements. One, whenever I tweet or say anything positive about Tyler Perry, I get the most horrendous hate mail possible. It’s – it’s really shocking. I mean you’ve been privy to some of it. The other –

MR. FRAZIER: Yeah.

MR. MURRAY: -- part of it is Suzanne de Passe put it best once at the

American Black Film Festival: no matter what you think about Tyler Perry as a filmmaker, we have to celebrate the fact that he’s created this environment where Black people can work. So, instead of his peers – the other directors, the other filmmakers, the other Hollywood people – complaining about him, tap into this environment where you can get a project green-lit, where you can get meetings –

MR. FRAZIER: Right.

MR. MURRAY: -- where people are trying to duplicate his success. 7

MR. FRAZIER: Exactly.

MR. MURRAY: If you claim you have a better product, well get your product done ! Stop complaining about him and put that energy towards doing your own thing.

MS. SNOWDEN: Right.

MR. MARTIN: He- -- here’s the way I view it. I view it that you have Spike. You have John Singleton. You have F. Gary Gray. You have Antoine Fuquah. I mean you have folks who do their own thing. I’m cool with that – Malcolm Lee and other – other folks.

MR. FRAZIER: There’s a whole lot.

MR. MARTIN: That’s fine. I just simply find it interesting that he becomes the villain of what’s – all that’s wrong with Hollywood, when here’s somebody who, first of all, cultivated his audience.

MR. MURRAY: Yes.

MR. MARTIN: He cultivated the audience before the big screen and worked his butt off in each of those markets to cultivate them, and they s- -- turn out when those movies [come] out.

MS. SNOWDEN: Yes.

MR. FRAZIER: I want to tell you something. I was there the night that they opened and walked with Tyler and Oprah and Sidney Poitier, and that moment forever changed my life, because I stood there, and I watched as these stars – these stars who should’ve been acknowledged long ago by Hollywood – were 8

acknowledged by this man, Tyler Perry. He threw an amazing dinner. It was an

amazing night , because you realized what he had accomplished.

Some of those people who are – are writing in those hateful things? Look. Why

don’t you take a trip down to Tyler Perry Studios and check it out?

And here’s my thing. Sure, we’re all getting tired of seeing men dressed as

women; but, look. I don’t care . He’s successful, and he’s doing a good job.

MR. MARTIN: All right. Well, Janell, Kevin, Jawn, we certainly appreciate it.

Thanks so very much. And I’ll be seeing all of you on Twitter.

MS. SNOWDEN: Absolutely.

MR. MURRAY: [Unintelligible]-ly.

MR. MARTIN: All right.

MS. SNOWDEN: Thank you.

MR. MARTIN: This certainly was the most colorful panel of the day.

All right, folks. They’re talented and some super-fine sisters. Actresses

Vanessa Bell Calloway, Tichina Arnold, Tasha Smith and fashion designer Anthony

Mark Hankins take on the negative portrayal of African-American women in media.

[END OF SEGMENT.]

(SEG- MENT 2 ) [VIDEO CLIP FROM CONTROVERSIAL PEPSI MAX SUPERBOWL COMMERCIAL.]

MR. MARTIN: That Pepsi commercial, shown during Super Bowl XLV, caused a

lot of controversy about how African-American women are portrayed in the media. 9

Here today to talk about it: actresses Vanessa Bell Calloway, Tichina Arnold, Tasha

Smith, and fashion design Anthony Mark Hankins.

Folks, [I’m] certainly glad you’re here. This was amazing when this commercial aired. I mean sisters were angry . I mean it was so crazy online, because they said,

“Why does she have to be all upset ‘n’ mad.” They even were discussing her weave .

I mean that’s –

[CHUCKLING.]

MR. MARTIN: -- how crazy – that’s how crazy it got.

MS. VANESSA BELL CALLOWAY: I understand why people were upset, and I think what was missing is an explanation why she was so mean to him at the beginning.

Did they just come out of a fight ?

OFF CAMERA: Right.

MS. CALLOWAY: I mean did something happen? We – you know, you open into a commercial, and here she is just, like, hitting him and snatching stuff. It’s –

OFF CAMERA: Right.

MS. CALLOWAY: -- like, “W-“ -- “What” – “ Why? ”

MS. TICHINA ARNOLD: It’s a[n] issue we’re always battling, as –

OFF CAMERA : Yeah.

MS. ARNOLD: -- Black women, period. So, I could see why it would be insulting to people –

OFF CAMERA: Yes. 10

MS. ARNOLD: -- but – [crosstalk] –

MS. TASHA SMITH: [Crosstalk] –

MS. ARNOLD: -- it’s part of our culture, too.

MS. SMITH: Right. It’s –

MS. ARNOLD: Like, we – we – we, as Black women – we have that side. You know, because – [crosstalk]- --

MR. MARTIN: As – as in Tasha in “Why Did I Get Married I” and “II.”

[CHUCKLING, CROSSTALK.]

MS. SMITH: She was a very out-of-control, expressive, aggressive woman; but it’s really not our only way of communication.

OFF CAMERA: At all.

MS. SMITH: You follow me? And I –

OFF CAMERA: [Crosstalk.]

MS. SMITH: -- think that a lot of women got a little offended, because you’re putting that during – on during the Super Bowl. People are going to see it as the image

–

MR. ANTHONY HANKINS: Um-hum.

MS. SMITH: -- that’s going to be in the minds and memory of young, Black women; Black men; White men and women, thinking that this is our way of communication, and this is our way to try to “get what we need” from –

OFF CAMERA: But also because – 11

MS. SMITH: -- our man.

MR. MARTIN: Bu- -- but speak to the larger issue of images and – and as you are looking at roles and how it’s portrayed; and, Anthony, also for you, because in the fashion industry, when you see very few of us. You see the criticism of the First Lady in terms of how she looks and her size. People don’t like that. So – so t- – so h- -- so – so, how – how do you factor that in when you’re making decisions as to what role you’re going to take, or who you’re going to put on the runway?

MS. ARNOLD: It’s a very careful balance. Like, bei- -- when I was with – was on “Everybody Hates Chris,” we had to be very careful about how I treated the children, what I did. There always had to be a reason for what I did.

MR. MARTIN: Okay.

MS. ARNOLD: For – like, if I – if I chastised the children, why am I chastising them? What did they do? So, there’s a – there’s a – there’s got to be a reason behind it – not just, you know, I’m just being irate. There’s – there’s – there’s a – there’s a reason and a cause for my actions. So, this is something that was a careful balance with writing. It – with how I portrayed – like, sometimes I couldn’t yell. If I was yelling certain things, it would be, you know, perceived di- -- differently.

MR. MARTIN: Right.

MS. ARNOLD: So, it’s – it’s the action behind it.

MS. SMITH: Well, I’m in the middle of directing a movie, and during the casting session, my – 12

MS. ARNOLD: Was that your –

MS. SMITH: -- thing –

MS. ARNOLD: -- shameless plug?

MS. SMITH: -- well, no, but –

MS. ARNOLD: [Laughs.]

MS. SMITH: -- it’s true.

MR. MARTIN: It’s all good!

MS. SMITH: [Chuckles.] It’s actually my speaking bureau company, but --

MS. ARNOLD: [Laughs.]

MR. MARTIN: Look.

MS. CALLOWAY: [Crosstalk, laughs].

MR. MARTIN: We – l- -- le- -- let –

[LAUGHTER.]

MR. MARTIN: -- let – let – let – let – let – no, no, no, no.

MS. SMITH: But -- stop it!

MR. MARTIN: But let me be real clear. On thi- --

MS. SMITH: But – [chuckles] –

MR. MARTIN: -- on thi- -- on this show –

[CHUCKLING.]

MR. MARTIN: -- on this show, we believe in folks putting their stuff out there, getting credit. So, go ‘head with the shameless plug. Go ‘head. Go with your point. 13

MS. SMITH: Thank you –

MR. MARTIN: Go ahead.

MS. SMITH: -- very much.

MR. MARTIN: Go ahead.

MS. SMITH: But the honesty behind that is – is me fighting to see many colors and – and shapes and sizes of who we are as Black women. A lot of times – and Black men as well. A lot of times, we may see a movie, and it’s full of only dark-skinned men, and they may all be the villain; or, l- -- only light-skinned men, and they’re the one that’s saving the girl; or, only – the only pretty woman is the one that has the curly hair. You know?

But for me, even as a[n] actor, as a filmmaker, I – we’re full of so much . Like, even on your show, we’re going to see all kinds of African-American talent, and I think it’s im- --

MR. MARTIN: They[‘re] all fine!

MS. SMITH: -- -portant and –

MR. MARTIN: But go on. I’m sorry.

MS. SMITH: -- you know? But –

MS. CALLOWAY: [Chuckles.]

MR. MARTIN: [Laughs.]

MS. SMITH: -- they’re all different colors, shapes and sizes. And, you know, I just think it’s important for us, as a people, to be able to show all of what we do in the 14 art.

MS. CALLOWAY: But getting –

MS. SMITH: You know?

MS. CALLOWAY: -- getting –

MS. SMITH: So –

MS. CALLOWAY: -- to your point about how you choose, I think none of us, you know, want[s] to do anything that’s going to put us in a bad light, that’s going to be disrespectful to not only our- -- ourselves, our families and our community, so, you know, you pick something that is going to put you in a good light. But the – the truth of the matter is there[’re] not a lot of projects –

MS. SMITH: You know what?

MS. CALLOWAY: -- out there, so you –

MR. MARTIN: Right.

MS. CALLOWAY: -- end up taking –

MS. SMITH: And

MS. CALLOWAY: -- a job .

MS. SMITH: No. But can I tell –

MS. CALLOWAY: You know? You – [crosstalk] –

MS. SMITH: -- you something? But we –

MS. CALLOWAY: -- like –

MS. SMITH: -- don’t always take roles that are necessarily positive roles, 15 because us, even as actors –

MS. CALLOWAY: Well, yeah.

MS. SMITH: -- we’ve got – [crosstalk] –

MS. CALLOWAY: Yeah, ex- --

MS. SMITH: -- a crackhead –

MS. CALLOWAY: -- ex—exactly, but I’m –

MS. SMITH: -- a drug addict, a –

MS. CALLOWAY: -- saying – but – but – but you don’t compromise, like – being a crack a- -- addict is not a bad role. That’s still a good role, because you have a good acting facility.

MS. SMITH: Um-hum.

MS. CALLOWAY: -- facility. You have a chance to really –

MS. SMITH: So –

MS. CALLOWAY: -- act .

MS. SMITH: -- it’s rela- --

MS. CALLOWAY: But I’m saying a –

MS. SMITH: -- -tive, really.

MS. CALLOWAY: -- bad – I’m saying a bad light, like something that’s going to be degrading, that you’re going be like picking watermelon and picking – I mean something that’s going to be like – uh, makes you look like you’re some type of buffoon or something. No. 16

MR. MARTIN: And –

MS. CALLOWAY: -- but we – we’re going to pick some parts that are going to give us a stretch and stuff. But the – the reality is there’s not a lot out there –

MS. ARNOLD: But roles are not –

MS. CALLOWAY: -- so people –

MS. ARNOLD: -- written –

MS. CALLOWAY: -- end up –

MR. HANKINS: [Crosstalk.]

MS. ARNOLD: -- for us.

MS. CALLOWAY: -- just taking –

MR. MARTIN: Right.

MS. CALLOWAY: -- a job .

MR. MARTIN: And – and I know – and also, somebody at home is probably saying, “Man, do you have Anthony up there?”

But, Anthony, every – since you’ve been doing fashion, you’ve made it clear that even what you do – you make clothes for every size sister, that – that you don’t ignore them.

MR. HANKINS: When we first started the collection, a lot of fashion editors didn’t want to see a size 4 and above size. They want to see everyone in a 2 –

MS. ARNOLD: Wow!

MR. HANKINS: -- a size 2. 17

MS. ARNOLD: I haven’t been a 2 since I was –

MR. HANKINS: And I’ve seen –

MS. ARNOLD: -- three .

MR. HANKINS: -- in the past few years, [it] go from a size 2 to a size 8. Eight is now considered, you know, pleasing to a fashion editor. But on the runway, they’re all size 2.

MS. ARNOLD: Wow.

MR. HANKINS: All the models are size 2. And so, you know, it’s hard for us; because of – the average American woman is a size 12.

MS. ARNOLD: And I – I was worried ab- –

MR. HANKINS: And they want to see –

MS. ARNOLD: -- I was –

MR. HANKINS: -- a size 12.

MS. ARNOLD: -- worried –

MR. MARTIN: Right. They –

MS. ARNOLD: -- about that. My –

MR. MARTIN: -- want to see themselves.

MR. HANKINS: They want –

MS. ARNOLD: -- six-year- --

MR. HANKINS: -- to see themselves.

MS. ARNOLD: -- -year-old daughter was like, “Mommy, I’m gaining weight.” 18

I’m like, “What are you talking about?” Like, “Where did you get this from?”

MS. SMITH: And do you –

MS. ARNOLD: She doesn’t –

MS. SMITH: -- think that –

MS. ARNOLD: -- read ma- --

MS. SMITH: -- maybe it’s –

MS. ARNOLD: -- fashion magazines. It’s television. It’s – like, I try to watch everything she watches. Like, I’m very careful about what –

MS. SMITH: Um-hum.

MS. ARNOLD: -- she’s fed. But, you know, they – these – the girls talk in school. Like, even –

MS. SMITH: Well, even it’s –

MS. ARNOLD: -- it’s – it’s –

MS. SMITH: -- community –

MS. ARNOLD: -- crazy .

MS. SMITH: -- too; because, like, in Hollywood, a lot of women are trying to be that thin woman. But if you go to D.C., or if you go to Baltimore, if you go to --

MR. MARTIN: You go to Texas –

MS. SMITH: -- Virginia –

MR. MARTIN: -- you’ll see some real women!

MS. SMITH: -- North Carolina – 19

MR. MARTIN: [Chuckles.]

MS. SMITH: -- like, you see full-figured women. And within that community, it is

– it is appropriate, and it’s hot .

MS. CALLOWAY: But to our defense, in Hollywood we stay a size – whatever –

MS. ARNOLD: Well, we –

MS. SMITH: Yes.

MS. CALLOWAY: -- we can, because –

MS. ARNOLD: -- [crosstalk] – television –

MS. CALLOWAY: -- we don’t –

MS. ARNOLD: -- puts ten –

MS. CALLOWAY: -- you know, if you’re –

MS. ARNOLD: -- pounds on you.

MS. CALLOWAY: -- if – right. It puts weight on you, and if –

MS. ARNOLD: Ten pounds!

MS. CALLOWAY: -- you’re not – if you’re not already considered to be the “big mama” – I’m not going to get a job, if I s- -- all of a sudden become the “big mama.”

They’re used to seeing –

MR. HANKINS: Exactly.

MS. CALLOWAY: -- me a certain way, and –

MR. MARTIN: But does it –

MS. CALLOWAY: -- I have to – 20

MR. MARTIN: -- but –

MS. CALLOWAY: -- kind of fulfill a certain, you know, slot as – so to speak.

MR. MARTIN: -- but does the person at home, in your estimation, truly understand that, in t- -- do they really understand who really is making these calls?

Because at the end of the day, you have people who ha- -- who are sitting here, saying,

“Oh, no. This is what we think it should look like.”

And so the struggle also is, “Wait a minute. I know what you think,” but you might not be from our community – more than likely.

MS. ARNOLD: We should --

OFF CAMERA: Exactly.

MS. ARNOLD: -- say – we – see, we talk about thinness, but we should also add being healthy . You know? It’s not – it’s not – to me, I want to be thinner, because I want to be healthier. Like –

MS. SMITH: I gotta tell you that’s --

MS. ARNOLD: -- I don’t want –

MS. SMITH: -- a good point.

MS. ARNOLD: -- you know I w- -- it’s a –

MS. SMITH: When you think about –

MS. ARNOLD: -- and that’s why I love –

MS. SMITH: -- heart disease within –

MS. ARNOLD: -- Michelle Obama and what – 21

MS. SMITH: -- our community –

MS. ARNOLD: -- she’s doing with –

MS. SMITH: -- [crosstalk] –

MS. ARNOLD: -- “Let’s Move.”

MS. SMITH: -- not to go –

MS. ARNOLD: Yeah.

MS. SMITH: -- off into that, but there’re more people – women – that are dying of heart disease –

MR. MARTIN: Right.

MS. SMITH: -- because of the cholesterol, because –

MS. ARNOLD: What they eat .

MS. SMITH: -- of the fat; because of the fried stuff; because of, you know, a lot of meat – all of that stuff. Like, it is important for us to be healthy people and to be health-conscious people.

MS. CALLOWAY: I stay my size, because I feel comfortable this size.

MR. MARTIN: Right.

MS. CALLOWAY: This is the size I want to be. I’m not doing it because somebody says this is what I have to do. It’s for me .

OFF CAMERA: Exactly.

MS. CALLOWAY: I’m healthy for me , because it –

[CROSSTALK.] 22

MS. CALLOWAY: -- makes me happy.

MS. ARNOLD: I’m – [crosstalk] – 41 –

MS. CALLOWAY: So, you get to –

MS. ARNOLD: -- and I don’t want to be overweight.

MS. SMITH: And guess what? I just turned 40, and I – I say that I’m “40, fine

and fabulous.”

MS. ARNOLD: [Cheers and claps.]

MS. CALLOWAY: Well, I’ll be –

MS. SMITH: You know what?

MS. CALLOWAY: -- 54 in two weeks.

MS. SMITH: -- oh, my God!

MR. HANKINS: Wow!

MR. MARTIN: Vanessa Bell Calloway, Tichina Arnold, Tasha Smith, Anthony

Mark Hankins, we certainly appreciate it. Thanks a lot.

MR. MARTIN (VOICEOVER): Still to come, actresses Salli Richardson-

Whitfield, Essence Atkins, Tatyana Ali and Wendy Davis talk about how First Lady

Michelle Obama is changing the way Black women are viewed in America.

[END OF SEGMENT.]

(SEG- MENT 3 ) MR. MARTIN: Earlier, we talked about images of African-American women in

the media, and one of the media’s target is First Lady Michelle Obama. Well, namely, 23 fat Rush Limbaugh. How difficult is it for Black women to get mass media approval? I tackle that with my next guests, actresses Salli Richardson-Whitfield, Essence Atkins,

Tatyana Ali and Wendy Davis.

Hey, folks. Glad you’re on the show.

MS. ESSENCE ATKINS: Thank you, too.

MS. SALLI RICHARDSON-WHITFIELD: Thank you.

MS. TATYANA ALI: Thank you.

MS. WENDY DAVIS: Thanks so much for having us.

MR. MARTIN: All right, then. This – this whole notion of images – and when - - when you hear these attacks on the First Lady – and I’ve read some im- -- some message boards, and they talk about, you know, how she looks. They talk about – you know, in terms of her hips; talk about her legs. And so you have all these attacks on her. I don’t recall folks attacking Laura Bush, or Hillary Clinton, or even Nancy –

MS. DAVIS: Barbara Bush --

MR. MARTIN: -- Reagan in the same way.

MS. DAVIS: -- or –

OFF CAMERA: Right.

MR. MARTIN: Absolutely.

MS. DAVIS: Um-hum. Absolutely. I think what needs to happen is America needs to see a wider variety of Black women in the media, and that’s part of the problem. You know, when you look at Hollywood, there tends to be a – they tend to 24 lean towards light-skinned Black women, and I think this is a real problem in our country, because when they see brown-skinned women on television, they’re just not used to it. And many women in the African-American community are beautiful, brown- skinned women –

MR. MARTIN: [Unintelligible]. I mean they were –

OFF CAMERA: [Crosstalk]- --

MR. MARTIN: -- they were doggin’ her arms –

OFF CAMERA: -- but I – I – [crosstalk] –

MR. MARTIN: -- her toned arms .

MS. RICHARDSON-WHITFIELD: -- but – but I don’t think – [crosstalk] –

MS. DAVIS: Because they feel like they can .

MS. RICHARDSON-WHITFIELD: -- but I don’t think that’s necessarily true. I think that, as Black women, we’re just not seeing enough of light, dark. It doesn’t matter.

OFF CAMERA: Period.

MS. ALI: Yeah – [crosstalk] –

MS. ATKINS: I agree.

MS. ALI: -- what’s happening is that people are being introduced to Black femininity through Michelle Obama, and there really is this “otherness” happening. “Oh!

And” – “And her style” – not to mention the fact that we do tear apart women in the media, I mean – 25

MR. MARTIN: Right.

MS. ALI: -- no matter what.

[CROSSTALK.]

MS. ALI: You’re going to –

OFF CAMERA: Let’s – let’s also –

MS. ALI: -- talk about somebody’s weight –

MS. ESSENCE ATKINS: -- just as a – the responsibility that we, ourselves, as a community, as a society, tear apart each other, in general. I mean if you read any news story, and then you look at the comments underneath, most often than not, they are horrendous and very toxic. So, I don’t think that it’s particular to Michelle Obama, or any one, particular person. I think that the – the community is very venomous.

[CROSSTALK.]

OFF CAMERA: They’re just going to have –

MS. DAVIS: But I do think –

MS. RICHARDSON-WHITFIELD: -- to get used to it that –

MS. DAVIS: -- that it has been open –

MS. RICHARDSON-WHITFIELD: -- we have a fine sister in the house.

MS. DAVIS: -- season on Michelle Obama –

MR. MARTIN: [Laughs, crosstalk].

MS. DAVIS: -- because she is a Black woman.

MR. MARTIN: Hold on. 26

MS. DAVIS: I do –

MR. MARTIN: I want Salli to say that again.

MS. RICHARDSON-WHITFIELD: I said they’re just going to have to get used to it that we have a fine sister in the house.

[LAUGHTER.]

OFF CAMERA: Absolutely!

MS. RICHARDSON-WHITFIELD: And she’s going to show her athletic arms, and she –

MS. ATKINS: Right.

MS. RICHARDSON-WHITFIELD: -- doesn’t – she doesn’t have to hide her body, like other former first ladies.

MR. MARTIN: Right –

MS. RICHARDSON-WHITFIELD: -- no disrespect – that were not as young and youthful as – and as in-shape. So –

MR. MARTIN: ‘S true.

MS. RICHARDSON-WHITFIELD: -- there –

MR. MARTIN: It’s true.

MS. RICHARDSON-WHITFIELD: -- ya go.

MS. DAVIS: -- absolutely.

MS. RICHARDSON-WHITFIELD: And they’re going to hate on it. They can’t – they can’t like it. 27

MS. ALI: [Chuckles.]

MR. MARTIN: Now, when we talk about this whole notion of images, it’s also a question of who actually controls that. And so, Tatyana, you know, you made it clear in terms of maximizing the Internet, creating your own content, as a way of saying, “I’m going to be in control of my own destiny.” You know, why was that so important for you to do that versus waiting for somebody else to say, “Okay. Here’s a show”?

MS. ALI: Well, other than the fact that you’d wait forever – [chuckles] – I think that, you know, it – [gestures toward Ms. Davis] – you were saying this earlier – there really is a necessity for a diverse – diverse depictions of – of Blackness and of people of color. We don’t fall into just one category, and there seemed to be – that was lacking. I want to help create new archetypes. You know, back in the day, as a Black actress, you could only play somebody’s mammy. Right? Then there – i- -- it’s – the archetypes have gone on and on and on. I- -- it’s – it’s – it’s almost like a slow evolution, a very slow progression. So, we have to create our own content in order to create new archetypes. That’s what’s happening with Michelle Obama. This is a new archetype. This is a new type of Black woman that a lot of the country and the world – they just --

MR. MARTIN: They’ve never seen before.

MS. ALI: -- didn’t even know existed .

[CROSSTALK.]

MS. ALI: They didn’t even know existed. 28

OFF CAMERA: [Crosstalk] – category.

MR. MARTIN: Right.

MS. RICHARDSON-WHITFIELD: But right now, in the business, in general, there is a recession – of Black TV shows, Black films. We are not working. So, there was a time when w- -- you know, where we had “Love Jones” coming out. We had different kind[s] of movies, and now there’s nothing out there for us, and it’s very important that we create our own. We don’t worry about the – the – the film company, or the big studios putting films out there for us –

OFF CAMERA: Right.

MS. RICHARDSON-WHITFIELD: -- ‘cause they’re not going to do it.

MR. MARTIN: And – and how have each of you tried to expand your brain, if you will, to other areas that you can actually control? So, how are you doing that beyond just in front of the camera?

MS. RICHARDSON-WHITFIELD: Well, for me, I’ve been – I started directing my show “Eureka” –

MR. MARTIN: Um-hum.

MS. RICHARDSON-WHITFIELD: -- and now my – my goal for the last few years is to start doing some indie films. And that’s where we have a little more control. I have a film called “I Will Follow” coming out, and it’s a new organization called AFFRM, which is – is a group of Black film companies that are – i- -- it’s a different way to get our films out there to the people. 29

MS. ATKINS: To get distribution.

MS. RICHARDSON-WHITFIELD: Yes. It has to – we have to do it ourselves now.

MS. DAVIS: Yes.

MS. RICHARDSON-WHITFIELD: We can’t rely on them, because, listen. You hire the people who look like you. Well, the people who are hiring are White. They’re not going to hire us, so we[‘ve] got to hire ourselves more.

MS. ALI: I think – my sister and I started a production company, HazraH

Entertainment, these –

OFF CAMERA: Yeah.

MS. ALI: -- which is a web series, was our first project. And we’re production partners on our TV One show “Love That Girl.” And it really is – you know, we’re not a monolithic group. [Chuckles.] There are so many stories within the African-American community to tell that are just simply not being told – so many, just a huge variety of – of points of view. It’s infinite.

MR. MARTIN: I – I’ll tell you –

MS. RICHARDSON-WHITFIELD: There’re films out there being made that are not getting to the public –

MS. DAVIS: Absolutely.

[CROSSTALK.]

MS. RICHARDSON-WHITFIELD: -- because they’re not – 30

MS. DAVIS: Yes.

MS. RICHARDSON-WHITFIELD: -- the big comedies. They’re not –

MR. MARTIN: Right.

MS. RICHARDSON-WHITFIELD: -- being – you know, y- -- not being shot, and those –

MS. DAVIS: And they’re not being –

MS. RICHARDSON-WHITFIELD: -- and those are the films –

MS. DAVIS: -- supported.

MS. ATKINS: Right.

MS. DAVIS: They’re not being –

MS. RICHARDSON-WHITFIELD: And we have –

MS. DAVIS: -- supported.

MS. RICHARDSON-WHITFIELD: -- to challenge ourselves –

MR. MARTIN: Well –

MS. RICHARDSON-WHITFIELD: -- to see –

MR. MARTIN: -- and that’s –

MS. RICHARDSON-WHITFIELD: -- better films.

MR. MARTIN: -- and – and that’s why I raise the point about the – what you did with the Web, but also when I look at and Twitter, when I look at the fact that, when I talked to Will Packer, when they had “Trois” that came out, when they did

“Stomp the Yard,” I mean they really focused on grassroots – 31

MS. RICHARDSON-WHITFIELD: Grassroots.

MR. MARTIN: -- activism and drove it. And so I think – you know, people talk about how it’s changing, but the benefit today is that, if you want to go to the other side, it’s about being creative to tap into your own audience, to be able to get them to see it.

MS. ALI: You know, when you – when you go to the offices, and you knock on the doors, and you’re trying to get somebody –

OFF CAMERA: Yeah.

MS. ALI: -- to open the door for you, what they say is, “Well, there’s no audience for this.” You know, that’s what hap- -- “Buffy’s” was actually written as a TV show, and it was at studios, and they’re like, “Um-m-m, there’s no audience for this.”

And we said, “ Yes , there is !”

MS. RICHARDSON-WHITFIELD: [Crosstalk.]

MS. ALI: “How ‘bout we make a Web series, and we just go directly to the audience” – [crosstalk] –

MR. MARTIN: “Directly to Black people” –

MS. ALI: -- and – [crosstalk] –

MR. MARTIN: -- “and show you?”

MS. ALI: -- we ended up getting 5 million views. So –

MR. MARTIN: Let me ask you –

MS. ALI: -- there [it] shows you –

MR. MARTIN: -- I – I – I – I – 32

MS. ALI: -- there was an audience.

MR. MARTIN: -- l- -- let’s talk about “The Game.” I mean here’s an example –

OFF CAMERA: Right.

MR. MARTIN: -- of a show axed by a –

OFF CAMERA: Perfect example.

MR. MARTIN: -- so-called “major network” –

OFF CAMERA: Yeah, right.

MR. MARTIN: -- and then BET brings it back out. 7.7 million folks –

[CROSSTALK.]

MR. MARTIN: -- its –

MS. DAVIS: Huge –

MR. MARTIN: -- first episode.

MS. DAVIS: -- numbers.

MS. ALI: Highest in cable – [chuckles] –

MS. DAVIS: Huge numbers.

MR. MARTIN: So, when you see that, w- -- w- -- you know, how does that make you feel? And what does that say about – wait a minute. It’s a Black network, TV One.

Black network, Black people watching “Love that Girl.” Wait a minute. We now have more options –

OFF CAMERA: Yes!

MR. MARTIN: -- than we used to have. 33

OFF CAMERA: Absolutely.

MS. ATKINS: We do, but I think that there’s a part of us that still is so hungry for the approval of the so-called “networks,” and we’re –

MS. RICHARDSON-WHITFIELD: You’re exactly right.

MS. ATKINS: -- still kind of clamoring for their attention and their –

MR. MARTIN: Their validation.

MS. ATKINS: -- validation. Exactly.

MS. DAVIS: Absolutely.

MS. ATKINS: And the Oscars and the Emmys. And – and I think that’s a mistake . I think you can – as Tatyana said earlier, I think you can wait until you have cobwebs. The phone won’t ring.

MR. MARTIN: Wendy, Tichina Arnold was at an event, and she said that it was

13 years before the end of “Martin” and “Everybody Loves Chris.”

OFF CAMERA: Yeah.

OFF CAMERA: Yes.

MR. MARTIN: She said 13 years !

[CROSSTALK.]

MS. RICHARDSON-WHITFIELD: [Crosstalk] -- doesn’t make –

OFF CAMERA: Absolutely.

MS. RICHARDSON-WHITFIELD: -- any sense. If she had been on a big White show, they would’ve put her on another show – 34

MS. DAVIS: Immediately.

MS. RICHARDSON-WHITFIELD: -- right after that.

MS. DAVIS: Immediately.

MS. RICHARDSON-WHITFIELD: If she was a White –

MS. DAVIS: And we talked –

MS. RICHARDSON-WHITFIELD: -- actress.

MS. DAVIS: -- about Charlie Sh- -- I mean – I was just talking to a friend about

Charlie Sheen, and, you know, he’s – he’s, like –

[LAUGHTER.]

MS. DAVIS: -- exploding right before our eyes . And my friend was telling me, you know, “Oh, well,” you know, “as soon as he’s off of this show” –

[CROSSTALK.]

MS. DAVIS: -- “he’s going to go on another show, and he’s going” –

OFF CAMERA: Oh, yeah.

MS. DAVIS: -- “to make 5 million an episode. I mean, you know, you’re exactly right. There are opportunities there that – you know, that we don’t have, and we have to be proactive. We’ve got to create our own content, and we have to get our content –

MS. RICHARDSON-WHITFIELD: But there – what you said --

MS. DAVIS: -- to our viewers.

MS. RICHARDSON-WHITFIELD: -- what you said is so right. It’s as if we – we have our own network there. We have BET. We have TV One. And we’re – even as 35 our own people, we’re looking at it, going, “Um-m-m. That’s not as” –

OFF CAMERA: “It’s just not as good” –

MS. RICHARDSON-WHITFIELD: -- “this. I really wanna be” –

OFF CAMERA: -- or – or –

MS. RICHARDSON-WHITFIELD: -- “on the big network.” And –

MR. MARTIN: Absolutely.

MS. RICHARDSON-WHITFIELD: -- we have to go, “No. We need to support this and build – [crosstalk].”

MS. ALI: At the same time, i- -- I think it would be a mistake to only, you know, serve our community.

MR. MARTIN: Of course!

MS. ALI: Our stories have to go out – our stories –

MR. MARTIN: But I thi- -- but I think the

MS. ALI: -- are American –

MR. MARTIN: -- key –

MS. ALI: -- stories.

MR. MARTIN: -- though, is –

MS. ALI: Our stories are –

MR. MARTIN: -- that we –

MS. ALI: -- American stories, period.

MR. MARTIN: -- don’t denigrate what we have to say, “Oh, it’s not as good” – 36

OFF CAMERA: Right.

MR. MARTIN: -- “as.”

OFF CAMERA: Right.

[CROSSTALK.]

OFF CAMERA: We can’t think of it as “less than.”

MR. MARTIN: Right. It’s another option.

OFF CAMERA: Right, right.

MR. MARTIN: Wendy, go ahead.

MS. DAVIS: And it is very important for America to experience the Black community, because this creates diversity and acceptance and inclusion. And that’s what has to happen in America.

MR. MARTIN: We’re absolutely out of time. Certainly glad you guys joined us.

We had a fabulous time. Salli, Essence, Tatyana, Wendy, thanks a bunch.

MS. RICHARDSON-WHITFIELD: Thank you so much.

MS. ATKINS: Thank you.

MS. DAVIS: Thank you.

MS. ALI: Thank you, Roland.

MR. MARTIN (VOICEOVER): When Hollywood said no, these hit makers turned to new media and other channels to get their projects to their audiences. Up next: producers Sonja Norwood and Kenya Moore, along with directors Mario Van Peebles and Bill Duke. 37

[END OF SEGMENT.]

(SEG- MENT 4 ) MR. MARTIN: Making movies in Hollywood isn’t like it used to be. New

distribution channels are making it easier for directors and producers to get their

projects out there, but finding them can pose a problem. Here to talk about it: manager

Sonja Norwood, directors Mario Van Peebles and Bill Duke, and producer Kenya

Moore.

Folks, how are we doing?

MS. SONJA NORWOOD: Great.

MS. KENYA MOORE: Great!

MR. BILL DUKE: Good.

MR. MARIO VAN PEEBLES: Good.

MR. MARTIN: You know what? I want to deal with power. It’s very interesting.

When I was watching the VH-1 show – the reality –

MS. NORWOOD: Right.

MR. MARTIN: -- show you were on with your children – how certain artists said,

“Oh, well, I want to do a deal with you. We ain’t tryin’ to work with your momma.”

MS. NORWOOD: Um-hum.

MR. MARTIN: And it was very interesting, because they felt you were too

powerful. They felt you were too demanding on the business side. Talk – talk about

that in terms of when you’re – whe- -- when you’re one who – how has a position of 38 power and control in an industry where that’s the last thing they want for someone who looks like you –

MS. NORWOOD: Right.

MR. MARTIN: -- to have that power.

MS. NORWOOD: Well, you know what? I think that power comes with knowledge, and I – I think it comes with preparation. And, of course, being a Black woman in – in a male-dominated business, I have to be doubly prepared, and so most of the time when I am in the process of negotiating, I’ve done my homework, done my research. I know what my limitations are going to be. I know exactly what I’m going to accept. And a lot of times when people are faced with that, I’m underestimated a lot; and so, therefore, you come in unprepared. And – and you’re – I think it’s – it’s intimidation because of the knowledge and the pre- -- preparedness that I have.

But I – I just think that I just – it’s a no for me. I don’t – you know, I don’t back down. I don’t have fear, and – and you may say no, but at the end of the day, we’ve done good business.

MR. MARTIN: All of you are in the same situation when you’re directing and when you’re producing, where, at the end of the day, you are the one shepherding a particular project. And so how do you deal with folks who, frankly, are unafraid [sic] of the kind of power that you possess, looking like the way you do?

MR. MARIO VAN PEEBLES: Well, first of all – [crosstalk]- --

MR. MARTIN: Kenya can’t wait to jump into this one. 39

MS. MOORE: [Laughs.]

MR. MARTIN: [Chuckles.]

MR. VAN PEEBLES: -- you know, we don’t really just – you don’t just deal scripts and lighting. Ultimately, you deal with people, and a lot of it is going to be people skills. And that speaks to each, individual way that we’ll handle people differently. And I think one of the things that – that you can do a little jujitsu with it is be cool with what you don’t know.

OFF CAMERA: Um-hum.

MR. VAN PEEBLES: You know, sometimes letting folks – when you’re new on the set, and you’re a new director, don’t – don’t – don’t – don’t front.

OFF CAMERA: Absolutely.

MR. VAN PEEBLES: Be f- -- be cool. Find some –

MR. BILL DUKE: Um-hum.

MR. VAN PEEBLES: -- cool people with you and then say, “Hey, this is something I don’t know,” and, “Can I call Bill on this?” and, “Can I call So-and-so on that?”

MS. NORWOOD: Yes.

MR. MARTIN: Kenya?

MS. MOORE: Yeah. I- -- it’s really interesting, because I had the opportunity to produce my very first movie under my production company a few months ago, and –

MR. MARTIN: And that movie was? 40

MS. MOORE: -- “The Confidant” –

MR. MARTIN: All right.

MS. MOORE: -- Boris Kodjoe, David Banner –

MR. MARTIN: My – on this show, we believe in plugging stuff, but go ahead.

MS. MOORE: -- all right. [Laughs.] “The Confidant.” Billy Zane, Bai Ling,

Richard Roundtree. So, I had a really great cast. My cast was perfect. My crew challenged me every step of the way, because I was this young; Black; you know, female actress. So, I think that they thought that I didn’t know what I was doing.

But, you know, I think the – I think what you have to do is like, you – like you said, Ms. Norwood. You have to show that you do know – you – you’ve done your research – and that you’re not going to just stand for anything. And it does take a required amount of people skills. But one thing that I – I happened to learn during that process: you have to fire somebody.

MS. NORWOOD: Yes.

MS. MOORE: If somebody is challenging you, and they’re a cancer on your set, they have to be gone. And that’s the one thing that I regret that I didn’t do – is fire that person that was the cancer on the set.

MR. MARTIN: I see a look in Bill’s eye. Bill’s going, “Yeah, I[‘ve] been there before.” [Chuckles.]

[CHUCKLING.]

MR. DUKE: I think, on the business side, power is three things: distribution, 41 ownership and marketing.

MS. MOORE: Yes.

MR. DUKE: You know? And I think as we get into – I keep hi- -- beating this dead horse, but new media, there’re opportunities there for owning distribution portals, marketing and those things. I think it’s very important.

MR. MARTIN: We have Earth, Wind and Fire on this particular show; and it’s very interesting, because we were all at a dinner party that I organized. And that’s when I – and Verdine White was telling me about this. They didn’t have a record deal, and they – they – they had two sold-out shows at the Hollywood Bowl.

MR. DUKE: Yes.

MR. VAN PEEBLES: Yeah.

MR. MARTIN: So, they decided –

OFF CAMERA: [Crosstalk] – shows.

MR. MARTIN: -- they said, “ Wait a minute. We’re going to do an album.” They recorded it. “We’re going to shoot the video. [We’re] going to put out our own concert series DVD” – wha- -- whatever. What they realized was – they said, “Wait a minute.

We have a built-in audience that we’ve cultivated. We can put out our own product.”

OFF CAMERA: Yes.

MR. MARTIN: “We can sit here and repurpose our content.”

MR. VAN PEEBLES: No one is giving you a job ‘cause they like you. They’re giving you a job because you can make money for them. Well, if you can make money 42 for them, guess what?

MS. NORWOOD: You can make –

MR. VAN PEEBLES: You can make money –

MS. NORWOOD: Exactly.

MR. VAN PEEBLES: -- for you .

MS. NORWOOD: Um-hum.

MR. MARTIN: Do you spend lots of time, as – as you look at how this world is changing, when you look at Voodoo, Netflix, stuff that’s on iTunes – [crosstalk] –

MS. MOORE: Video On Demand –

MR. MARTIN: -- absolutely –

MS. MOORE: -- new media -- [crosstalk].

MR. MARTIN: -- that – that b- -- that – it used to be it was all about having to get that movie on the big screen. Now it’s saying, “Wait a minute. If I can look at the price points” –

OFF CAMERA: That’s right.

MR. MARTIN: -- I was talking to Wesley Snipes about this. He said people have no idea the – the – the millions of folks in Russia – he said, “Fine. If I can get me 10 percent” – and, you know – and he said it’s amazing how, if you just step back and not get caught up in the drama of wanting to be on a red carpet and a big screen –

MS. NORWOOD: I was going to say –

MR. MARTIN: -- focus on the business. 43

MS. NORWOOD: -- I was going to –

MS. MOORE: That’s about ego.

MS. NORWOOD: -- say that.

MR. DUKE: Prince.

MR. MARTIN: Prince – absolutely.

MS. NORWOOD: And you know what? And I was going to say that, because traditionally thinking, we need a Grammy. Or, we need an Oscar. But, in fact, you really don’t. You don’t need those things. Those are ways of measuring your accomplishments, sure, but if you can’t get there, then don’t give up and not go through the new path of technology; because we need to do that, too.

MR. DUKE: A friend of mine lives in Fiji, a- -- sorry. New Guinea. I’m sorry.

And we’re ta- -- I was talking to him one day. He said the poorest people there have three things. They have a canoe, a hut with no electricity and a cell phone. So, I said,

“Well, how can you have a cell phone with no electricity to” – “to charge it?”

Solar.

MS. NORWOOD: Um-hum.

MR. DUKE: Wind it up, put it in the sun. You can ge- -- you can get content to – to them.

MR. MARTIN: Well, first of all, you – I mean you go all across the continent of

Africa. Because of the difficulty with the terrain and also with the roads, wireless is the communications medium. And I think when you talk about this whole issue of power – 44 because, again, what is driving the studios crazy is that – that the – I believe, the walls have come crumbling down.

MS. NORWOOD: Yes.

MR. MARTIN: First, of all, when I – I – I – I – every actor, musician that I meet, I tell them, “You have to be on Facebook and Twitter, because you” – if all of a sudden, you look up, and you have 2, 300,000 followers, new product comes out – that’s who you first send it to –

MS. NORWOOD: Right.

MR. MARTIN: -- to buy –

MR. VAN PEEBLES: [Crosstalk] –

MR. MARTIN: -- to purchase –

MR. VAN PEEBLES: -- [crosstalk].

MR. MARTIN: -- or whatever.

MS. MOORE: Yeah, social media is key. It’s key in our – in our – in our marketing strategy now. If you don’t have social media, you can’t get out to the – to the masses.

MR. VAN PEEBLES: But having said that, I think there’s the next level. I say there’s three loves in your life. One, do what you love, do it with people you love, and say something you love. To that last end, if we’re going to be sending messages out to all these places, I hope we also look at the content of what we’re sending.

MS. NORWOOD: Ex- -- exactly. 45

MR. DUKE: And the consequences.

MR. VAN PEEBLES: And the consequences of what we’re sending. That – sometimes having something with a little nutritional value is a good thing.

MR. MARTIN: Well, I’ll tell you what, though. I believe there’s t- -- there’s significant value when you begin to create your own enterprises –

MS. NORWOOD: Exactly.

MR. MARTIN: -- because there’s nothing like freedom.

MS. NORWOOD: And you know what, Roland?

MR. MARTIN: Simple as that.

MS. MOORE: Nothing like it.

MS. NORWOOD: That – that –

MR. MARTIN: Nothing like it.

MS. NORWOOD: -- that was – that’s the most important thing for me with my kids –

MS. MOORE: Freedom is power.

MS. NORWOOD: -- for them to understand – that –

MR. MARTIN: Absolutely.

MS. NORWOOD: -- they need to own .

MR. VAN PEEBLES: Roland, if history is a book written by the winner –

MS. NORWOOD: [Chuckles.]

MR. VAN PEEBLES: -- what is film? 46

MS. NORWOOD: [Unintelligible.]

MR. MARTIN: So deep!

[CHUCKING.]

MR. MARTIN: Sonja, Mario – [chuckles] – Bill, Kenya, we appreciate it. Thanks

a lot.

[CROSSTALK – A CHORUS OF THANKS.]

MR. MARTIN (VOICEOVER): Don’t go away. I’m talking with two of the

founding members of Earth, Wind and Fire: Ralph Johnson and Verdine White.

[END OF SEGMENT.]

(SEG- MENT 5 ) MR. MARTIN: When you talk about music legends, the list would not be

complete without mentioning the elements. You know exactly who I’m talking about:

Earth, Wind and Fire. I’m thrilled to be joined by two founding members of that group,

Verdine White and Ralph Johnson.

Gentlemen, welcome to “Washington Watch.”

MR. RALPH JOHNSON: Thank you. Thank you, Roland.

MR. VERDINE WHITE: Thanks for having us[?].

MR. MARTIN: How long has it been – you guys in the music business?

OFF CAMERA: Oh. We’re coming up on 40 years this –

OFF CAMERA: Forty years.

OFF CAMERA: -- year. 47

MR. MARTIN: Forty years.

OFF CAMERA: Forty –

MR. MARTIN: -- years.

OFF CAMERA: Forty years, yes.

OFF CAMERA: Yes.

MR. MARTIN: When you –

MR. JOHNSON: Yes.

MR. MARTIN: -- think back, do – do you think about all those times and saying,

“Wait a minute. We’ve been doing this thing that long ?”

MR. WHITE: Well, when we talk about it onstage, that’s when it hits us, and we say, “It went by so fast .”

MR. JOHNSON: Yeah.

MR. WHITE: And between all of the, you know, different changes culturally, the technological changes that [have] happened, we’ve seen it all. You know, we’ve seen the audiences grow. In our case, we’re on, like, a – you know, our fifth generation of people that are coming to see us, you know.

MR. JOHNSON: I was going to say, I – you know, I tell people in interviews,

Roland, that, you know, when you’re in a group, you hope to hear one of your records one time –

MR. MARTIN: Right.

MR. JOHNSON: -- on the radio, once, in one city anywhere – just once. But as 48 it turns out, Earth, Wind and Fire music is played every one minute and 38 seconds on the planet, on –

MR. MARTIN: Wow!

MR. JOHNSON: -- the radio. That’s a fact.

MR. WHITE: Around the whole –

MR. MARTIN: [Unintelligible]- --

MR. WHITE: -- world.

MR. JOHNSON: Every minute in –

MR. WHITE: -- [crosstalk] –

MR. JOHNSON: -- the world.

[CROSSTALK.]

MR. MARTIN: Every one minute, 38 –

MR. WHITE: -- in 38 –

MR. MARTIN: -- seconds.

MR. WHITE: -- [crosstalk] – Earth, Wind and Fire –

MR. JOHNSON: -- yeah.

MR. WHITE: -- song is being played.

MR. JOHNSON: Yeah.

MR. MARTIN: We- -- we- -- I remember – first of all, anytime you see a – a – a

“Black” movie, if you will, come out – especially a family movie –

OFF CAMERA: Right. 49

MR. MARTIN: -- one of y’all’s songs is always in a family –

[CHUCKLING.]

MR. MARTIN: -- dance scene.

MR. WHITE: Yeah, uh-huh.

MR. MARTIN: I don’t care what it is. It’s always there somewhere.

MR. WHITE: You got the Electric Slide. They’re doing – yeah –

MR. MARTIN: Absolutely.

MR. WHITE: -- they – [unintelligible] -- exactly.

MR. JOHNSON: Yeah. Yeah, that would be “September,” or, “Let’s Groove” –

[unintelligible]. So, I mean – you know what, Roland? It was feel-good music, you know, and tha- -- that’s part of what Maurice wanted. He wanted to deliver a message in the music. You know, he wanted a great band that could perform all styles of music.

You know, he wanted a band that could really pull it off live and really pull it off in the studio. And that’s –

MR. MARTIN: When you – when you mention “message music,” I – I – I always do this, especially when I had my radio show. And I’ve done it on Twitter and

Facebook, and I’ve always asked this question. I’m 42, and I said, “Okay. In 18 years,

I’m 60 with a family reunion. What music will” – “will we be playing then?” And I’ve often said – and e- -- and it’s no disrespect – but there really is little music, I believe, between 1990 and [the] present day that you can play with your grandmomma there, your momma and daddy there, your nieces and nephews there. And so when you talk 50 about that music that lasts over a period of time –

MR. WHITE: Um-hum?

MR. MARTIN: -- is that what you appreciate the most – the fact that, whether you made it in 1970-something –

MR. WHITE: Right.

MR. MARTIN: -- there’s sti- -- it is still relevant and feels good to people here in

2011?

MR. WHITE: Well, you know, it’s st- -- what’s the deep thing about it, Roland, is that people now come up to us, and they thank us for making the music. You know, they come and say, “Oh,” you know, “my father liked that music.” And you ha- -- we have kids coming up now that ‘re, like, 15 years old; and they say, “Oh, you guys are

Earth, Wind and Fire!”

And we say, “Well, how do you know about it?”

And he said, “Well, my brother turned me on to you guys,” or – you know, or, “My sister turned me on.”

So, we have that kind of thing going on where somebody might be turning somebody else on to our music.

MR. JOHNSON: And we have people, Roland, that grew up with us, you know, in the college days –

MR. WHITE: Right.

MR. JOHNSON: -- that are now bringing their grandkids. 51

MR. MARTIN: Um!

MR. JOHNSON: And that’s a fact.

MR. MARTIN: And some people always say, “Man, you’re making me feel old.”

I – I think that’s – tha- -- that should make somebody feel great .

MR. WHITE: [Chuckles.] Yeah, e- -- yeah, ex- -- exactly. Yeah. You know, it’s

– it’s one of those kind[s] of phenomen[a] that, you know, it kind of brings their families together. And when we do concerts, all of them are cheering. You know, the – you know, the old-school people are bringing 8-tracks. Every – the younger ones are bringing –

MR. MARTIN: [Chuckles.]

MR. WHITE: -- you know –

MR. MARTIN: What? They want you to autograph an 8-track?

MR. WHITE: Exactly.

MR. JOHNSON: Yeah, we’ve done that.

MR. WHITE: Exactly.

MR. JOHNSON: We’ve autographed some 8-tracks.

MR. MARTIN: [Laughs.]

MR. WHITE: You can tell what generation they are by what they bring us to sign.

MR. MARTIN: But the band has also changed, because when I was at the

Essence Music Festival – 52

MR. WHITE: Right?

MR. MARTIN: -- Philip’s son –

‘ MR. JOHNSON: Right.

MR. MARTIN: -- is now singing –

MR. JOHNSON: Right.

MR. MARTIN: -- in the group?

MR. WHITE: Right.

MR. JOHNSON: Yes. Philip Derron Bailey. Philip’s son graduated from

Berkeley School of Music –

MR. WHITE: Right.

MR. JOHNSON: -- and we decided to pull him on in. I mean, you know, you’ve got to use –

MR. MARTIN: It’s the family –

MR. JOHNSON: -- there has to –

MR. MARTIN: -- business!

MR. JOHNSON: -- be –

MR. WHITE: Exactly.

MR. MARTIN: It’s the family –

MR. JOHNSON: -- there has to be some –

MR. MARTIN: -- business!

MR. JOHNSON: -- some practical application to what you’ve learned in school – 53

MR. WHITE: Right.

MR. JOHNSON: -- so, let’s apply it. So, he’s out on the road with us.

MR. WHITE: And he sounds great, and –

MR. JOHNSON: Yes. Doin’ it.

MR. WHITE: -- and – and he – he’s been so helpful. And he – and it’s great for us, too, being from another generation, having another generation, you know, to talk to about your music.

MR. MARTIN: You – you talked about the times changing and – and – with technology, bu- -- but let’s talk about how you guys are in control of your own destiny in terms of w- -- [the] last conversation we had, you said you guys performed at the

Hollywood Bowl.

MR. WHITE: Right.

MR. MARTIN: You guys shot the video for a concert video, recorded the concert as well.

MR. WHITE: Right.

MR. MARTIN: I mean you basically are multi- -- multi-purposing one of your concerts and taking advantage of controlling your own destiny, if you will. So – so, speak to that.

MR. WHITE: Well, what we discovered – what we discovered, Roland, was that the biggest relationship that any artist has is with their audience.

MR. MARTIN: Right. 54

MR. WHITE: And what we did, you know, coming through the ‘90s and early

2000’s [is] we started really connecting with the audience. And before we knew it, all of a sudden the audiences were getting bigger and bigger and bigger. And this last record that we did, we did it at the Hollywood Bowl, which will be out this year. We did two nights, broke box office records: 40,000 in over a weekend. And we were – we just said, “Let’s make a record.” “Let’s record it ourselves.” “Let’s film it ourselves.”

MR. MARTIN: No need to ask a label. No need to ask anybody else[‘s] permission. “Let’s do it ourselves.”

MR. JOHNSON: And there was no way you could have a moment like that – the

Hollywood Bowl, with a 96-piece orchestra, and not come out with some kind of –

MR. WHITE: Exactly.

MR. JOHNSON: -- content.

MR. MARTIN: Right.

MR. JOHNSON: How do you have a night like that – two nights like that – and not leave with something?

MR. WHITE: And –

MR. JOHNSON: So, it’s been recorded. And as Dine said, it’ll be released in the fall of this year.

MR. WHITE: And we had this young director, Rashidi –

MR. JOHNSON: [Crosstalk] – yes.

MR. WHITE: -- shoot a lot of content in Europe this past year, you know, when 55 we went to Italy, Rome, London, Paris – everywhere. So, what we did [is] we just had a relationship with our audience, and we make content to go to the audience.

MR. MARTIN: The reason I think that is important – especially for any artist that is coming up – is that when you look at social media, when you look at Facebook and

Twitter, the reality is you now can micro target to your audience.

MR. WHITE: Right.

MR. JOHNSON: Yes.

MR. MARTIN: I mean in the early ‘90s, Prince was selling downloaded music on his website –

MR. WHITE: That’s right.

MR. MARTIN: -- before iTunes even existed. And so, I just – a- -- and also, when you have that built-in fan base, look, they’re going to buy your stuff. They want to hear what you’re doing as –

MR. JOHNSON: Exactly.

MR. MARTIN: -- well. And so from a – from a financial standpoint, you’re going,

“Wait a minute. I can bypass some little guy in a” – “in” – “in a[n] office telling me, “Oh, no. You’re Earth, Wind and Fire. People don’t want to hear you guys anymore.”

MR. WHITE: Right.

MR. MARTIN: “We can do it ourselves.”

MR. WHITE: Well, wi- -- with us, you know, when our tickets go on sale – [snaps his fingers] – they sell out just like that. We were at the Kennedy Center last week. 56

MR. JOHNSON: Last Thursday night.

MR. WHITE: Last Thursday night.

MR. JOHNSON: Yeah.

MR. WHITE: Great concert for the Duke Ellington School of Music. Sold out, packed to the rafters, and – and that’s what happens. When our audience hears we’re coming – I always tell my , “You[‘ve] got to get the tickets, ‘cause the minute” –

MR. JOHNSON: “Don’t wait.”

MR. WHITE: -- “they’re” – “they’re going to be sold out.”

MR. MARTIN: Well, I’ll tell you what. There’s no doubt in my mind that – that 50 years from now – I absolutely believe it – just like we just celebrated 50 years of

Motown – the White House –

MR. WHITE: Um-hum.

MR. JOHNSON: Right.

MR. MARTIN: -- the President and the First Lady –

MR. WHITE: Um-hum.

MR. MARTIN: -- there’s no doubt in my mind the next generation and the one after that will still be saying, “Hey, put on that Earth, Wind and Fire.” That, to me, is a testament to real music.

Ralph and Verdine, we certainly appreciate it. Thanks for being on “Washington

Watch.”

MR. WHITE: Roland, man, thank you so much. 57

MR. MARTIN: All right. Thanks –

MR. JOHNSON: Thanks – [crosstalk].

MR. MARTIN: -- a bunch. All right.

MR. MARTIN (VOICEOVER): Get ready for some serious laughter. Comedians

Kim Whitley, Damon Williams, Buddy Lewis and J. Anthony Brown do what they do

well. Be sure to stick around.

[END OF SEGMENT.]

(SEG- MENT 6 ) MR. MARTIN: Although this is not HBO, we have employed several censors and

a 20-second delay because of our next panel. I’m here with some of the funniest folks

in the business. Joining us on “Washington Watch” [are] Kim Whitley, Damon Williams,

Buddy Lewis and J. Anthony –

MR. J. ANTHONY BROWN: You don’t –

MR. MARTIN: -- Brown.

MR. BROWN: -- have to worry about me cussin’. I’m saved. I’m – I’m a saved,

ordained minister. I am saved.

MS. KIM WHITLEY: In whose church?

[LAUGHTER.]

MR. BUDDY LEWIS: What’s the name of the church? The Church of –

MR. BROWN: Church of “Hell, Yeah !”

[LAUGHTER.] 5 8

MR. LEWIS: Brutha saved[?]. [Chuckles.]

MR. DAMON WILLIAMS: Or, Hell, No.

MR. BROWN: Hell, Naw!

MS. WHITLEY: Hell, Naw.

[CROSSTALK.]

MR. BROWN: “You can do whatever ya want in Hell, Naw.” [Chuckles.]

MR. MARTIN: It – it has been some time since we have had –

[CHUCKLING.]

MR. MARTIN: -- several of you on. There’s been lots of stuff that has happened over the last year or so. We chatted with – Buddy, you went on the show last year – our Wash- -- our Hollywood edition. Damon and Kim, saw you guys at – on the Tom

Joyner cruise. J.’s been blowin’ us off for the last year.

[CHUCKLING.]

MR. MARTIN: So –

MS. WHITLEY: He’s busy. He’s gotta[?] hustle.

MR. MARTIN: -- Bishop Eddie L. Long – that’s – that’s been a – a hot story that’s –

MS. WHITLEY: Ah!

MR. MARTIN: -- taken place over the past year.

MR. BROWN: Yeah, man. I mean it’s not –

MS. WHITLEY: Yeah. 59

MR. BROWN: -- it’s not the touching of the boys. It’s – it’s the toupée. It’s the thing –

MS. WHITLEY: [Laughs.]

MR. BROWN: -- it’s – that’s th- –

MS. WHITLEY: [Crosstalk] –

[CROSSTALK.]

MR. BROWN: -- that’s – that’s the s- --

MS. WHITLEY: -- in a nice church.

MR. LEWIS: No, no.

MR. BROWN: -- that’s the sin against God – right there. It’s – it’s the toupée.

MR. LEWIS: It was the Spandex for me. It was the Spandex.

MS. WHITLEY: No.

MR. BROWN: That and the toupée.

MR. LEWIS: That and the toupée.

MR. BROWN: Yeah. You know, once you find that you are in a restroom naked with tight clothing on and a toupée, you really need to question your existence , really.

MR. LEWIS: You really do.

MR. BROWN: There’s – there’s somethin’ really wrong with you, where you have brought yourself to –

MS. WHITLEY: [Crosstalk.]

MR. BROWN: -- tight Spandex and a toupee. 60

MR. LEWIS: And he coulda saved himself if he had just put a bike in the picture.

MR. BROWN: You know, I –

[LAUGHTER.]

MR. LEWIS: You know, he coulda –

[LAUGHTER.]

MR. LEWIS: -- disgusting!

MR. BROWN: That’s comedy – [crosstalk].

MR. BROWN: Now, Kim, when you saw it, were you excited? Did it –

MS. WHITLEY: [Laughs.]

MR. BROWN: -- get you –

MS. WHITLEY: Let me tell ya. That threw me ! It really did. I did not know that was –

MR. BROWN: It probably threw that little boy who got it!

[LAUGHTER.]

MR. BROWN: Did I – did I go too far? Did I say somethin’ wrong? Was that –

MS. WHITLEY: [Crosstalk] –

MR. BROWN: -- was that a sin before God?

MS. WHITLEY: -- the censors.

MR. BROWN: Yes. Okay. I’m sorry.

MR. LEWIS: They wasn’t boys, J. They was, uh, teenagers .

MR. BROWN: Uh, yeah. 61

MS. WHITLEY: [Laughs.]

MR. MARTIN: Yeah, that -- that went a little far, Rev. Adenoids.

MR. BROWN: Yeah, that was – [unintelligible] – everybody.

MR. LEWIS: [Cracks up.]

MR. BROWN: This is the Rev. Adenoids, and these are today’s church

announcements. The women who look like Al Green will meet in Meeting Room

4. We had to cancel this week’s Only One Baby Daddy meeting –

[LAUGHTER.]

MR. BROWN: -- due to the fact that no one in the church has one baby daddy.

[HOWLS OF LAUGHTER.]

MR. BROWN: Today’s church announcements – [crosstalk] – to say –

[CROSSTALK.]

MS. WHITLEY: -- terrible! I’m still mad they talkin’ ‘bout these two men[?] –

[unintelligible] –

MR. MARTIN: All right –

MS. WHITLEY: -- in here.

MR. MARTIN: -- now, we’ve seen lots of drama when it comes to Pres. Barack

Obama. Elections coming up next year. How crazy will this election be compared –

MR. BROWN: I –

MR. MARTIN: -- to –

MR. BROWN: -- I’mma tell you right now. 62

MR. MARTIN: -- last time?

MR. BROWN: I have said this, and I don’t have no disrespect, but I think he need to start hidin’ stuff he’s gon’ steal.

[LAUGHTER.]

MR. BROWN: I don’t –

MS. WHITLEY: [Crosstalk.]

MR. BROWN: -- I don’t know. It – it ain’t lookin’ good, and I’m sayin’ this is the time –

MR. WILLIAMS: Well, where he gon’ put Air Force 1?

MR. BROWN: -- well, I’m not puttin’ it out there. I’m just sayin’ you know how when you know things might not work [out] in that job, you start stealin’ notebook paper an’ –

[LAUGHTER.]

MR. BROWN: -- an’ legal pads. And, you know, get one of them presidential seals. They can make another one. At least you’ll have that – [crosstalk].

MS. WHITLEY: [Crosstalk] – gon’ sell it on eBay?

MR. BROWN: I’m not sayin’ – I would love for him to be there next year, but I’m just sayin’ this is the time to gather some things .

MR. LEWIS: Listen, listen. I’m tellin’ you Barack’s gon’ win. He’s gon’ win.

[CROSSTALK, CHUCKLING.] 63

MR. LEWIS: ‘Cause, see, he’s startin’ to get – he’s startin’ to get his muscle now. ‘Cause, see, at first, we thought we were gettin’, like, ?

MR. WILLIAMS: Right.

MR. LEWIS: But we got Carlton? And so now he’s –

[CHUCKLING.]

MR. LEWIS: -- a little harder now. He’s gettin’ hard now. He’s gittin’ –

MS. WHITLEY: He’s gettin’ hard.

MR. LEWIS: -- he’s gittin’ his bases – [crosstalk].

MR. BROWN: Like Muhammad Ali.

MR. LEWIS: Yeah! Yeah!

MR. MARTIN: [Crosstalk] – Muhammad Ali hard?

MR. LEWIS: Exactly. My – [crosstalk].

MR. BROWN: President, get you some of those spoons an’ all that stuff outta that. Gather that stuff up , so – so –

MR. LEWIS: And a rib – and a rib tray.

MR. BROWN: -- yeah, and – and then have it in the car, all ready, so –

MR. WILLIAMS: I think by the end of his term, he gon’ be Denzel from “Training

Day.”

[LAUGHTER.]

MS. WHITLEY: Right. I tell ya –

[CROSSTALK.] 64

MR. LEWIS: “Bill Clinton ain’t got nothin’ on me!”

[LAUGHTER.]

MS. WHITLEY: He get – he get Oprah Winfrey as his runnin’ mate, he got it!

MR. MARTIN: [Laughs.]

MS. WHITLEY: E’er’body gonna vote for Oprah.

MR. MARTIN: Now, what did y- -- what did y’all make of the Oprah-Ilanya [sic – phonetic] – Iyanla Vanzant interview?

MS. WHITLEY: I don’t care what happened. They argued or fought. It might not look great. She still put her book on the show, so it still – [crosstalk] –

MR. BROWN: And her book was number one.

MS. WHITLEY: Yes!

MR. MARTIN: But – but – but I did –

MR. BROWN: [Crosstalk] – good.

MR. MARTIN: -- I did think it was pretty cold –

[CROSSTALK.]

MR. MARTIN: -- [crosstalk] – “I think when you said God told you, I wasn’t gon’ git in the way of you and God.”

MR. WILLIAMS: And I just wanna correct –

MR. BROWN: [Crosstalk] – I’m God. And if I ain’t – [unintelligible] – it ain’t happenin’.

[CHUCKLING.] 65

MR. MARTIN: What’s up with the hatred on Tyler Perry?

MR. BROWN: I don’t understand.

MR. MARTIN: Folks have t- -- made it sound like –

MS. WHITLEY: Well, it’s a crabs-in- --

MR. MARTIN: -- the evil incarnate.

MS. WHITLEY: -- -the-bar- -- it’s the crabs in the barrel.

MR. BROWN: For a man in a dress, gimme Tyler Perry. Big Mama don’t do it for me. That’s all I’m sayin’.

MR. MARTIN: [Chuckles.]

MR. BROWN: I see – I see Big Mama, I’m like, “That ain’t nobody but Martin.”

That’s all.

[LAUGHTER.]

MS. WHITLEY: I really just wanna say next time you have a segment, and you want some intelligent comments, just bring us. Those two on the end ?

[LAUGHTER.]

MR. MARTIN: Y’all, we got ta go. Uh –

[CROSSTALK/ANARCHY.]

MR. MARTIN: I’ll be o- --

[END.]