Court File No.: CV-18-00605134-00CP
ONTARIO SUPERIOR COURT OF JUSTICE
BETWEEN:
MICKY GRANGER
Plaintiff
- and -
HER MAJESTY THE QUEEN IN RIGHT OF THE PROVINCE OF ONTARIO
Defendant
Proceeding under the Class Proceedings Act, 1992
MOTION RECORD OF THE PLAINTIFF (CERTIFICATION) (Returnable November 27 & 28, 2019)
VOLUME I of II
March 18, 2019 GOLDBLATT PARTNERS LLP 20 Dundas Street West, Suite 1039 Toronto ON M5G 2C2
Jody Brown LS# 58844D Tel: 416-979-4251 / Fax: 416-591-7333 Email: [email protected]
Geetha Philipupillai LS# 74741S Tel.: 416-979-4252 / Fax: 416-591-7333 Email: [email protected]
Lawyers for the Plaintiff -
2
TO: HER MAJESTY THE QUEEN IN RIGHT - OF THE PROVINCE OF ONTARIO Crown Law Office – Civil Law 720 Bay Street, 8th Floor Toronto, ON, M5G 2K1
Amy Leamen LS#: 49351R Tel: 416.326.4153 / Fax: 416.326.4181
Lawyers for the Defendant
TABLE OF CONTENTS
TAB DESCRIPTION PG #
1. Notice of Motion (Returnable November 27 and 28, 2019) 1
A. Appendix “A” – List of Common Issues 6
2. Affidavit of Micky Granger (Unsworn) 8
3. Affidavit of Tanya Atherfold-Desilva sworn March 18, 2019 12
A. Exhibit “A”: Office of the Independent Police Review Director – 20 Systemic Review Report dated July 2016
B. Exhibit “B”: Office of the Independent Police Review Director - 126 Executive Summary and Recommendations dated July 2016
C. Exhibit “C”: Office of the Independent Police Review Director – Terms of 142 Reference as of March 2019
D. Exhibit “D”: Affidavit of David D.J. Truax sworn August 30, 2016 146
E. Exhibit “E”: Centre of Forensic Investigators & Submitters Technical 155 Information Sheets effective April 2, 2015
F. Exhibit “F”: Centre of Forensic Sciences, Technical Information Sheet, 159 DNA Information effective September 18, 2017
G. Exhibit “G”: Centre of Forensic Sciences, Investigators & Submitters, 171 Biology Report Guide effective November 13, 2018
H. Exhibit “H”: House of Commons Debates – Official Report (Hansard) 182 dated Thursday, September 25, 1997
I. Exhibit “I”: House of Commons Debates - Official Report (Hansard) 266 dated Friday, March 27, 1998
VOLUME II OF II
J. Exhibit “J”: House of Commons Debates – Official Report (Hansard) 332 dated Tuesday, May 12, 1998
K. Exhibit “K”: House of Commons Debates – Official Report (Hansard) 436 dated Tuesday, September 29, 1998.
-
i v
TAB DESCRIPTION - PG # L. Exhibit “L”: Public Protection, Privacy and the Search for Balance: A 512 Statutory Review of the DNA Identification Act, Final Report, dated June 2010
M. Exhibit “M”: BILL C-3: THE DNA IDENTIFICATION ACT, Prepared 611 by Marilyn Pilon, Law and Government Division, 14 October 1997, Revised 22 May 1998
N. Exhibit “N”: Annual Report of the Privacy Commissioner 1998-99 619
O. Exhibit “O”: Proposed Litigation Plan 729 1
Court File No.: CV-18-00605134-00CP
ONTARIO SUPERIOR COURT OF JUSTICE
BETWEEN:
MICKY GRANGER
Plaintiff
- and -
HER MAJESTY THE QUEEN IN RIGHT OF THE PROVINCE OF ONTARIO
Defendant
Proceeding under the Class Proceedings Act, 1992
NOTICE OF MOTION (CERTIFICATION) (Returnable November 27 & 28, 2019)
The Plaintiff will make a motion to Justice Glustein, on November 27 & 28, 2019, at 10:00 AM or as soon after that time as the motion can be heard, at the Ontario Superior Court of Justice, Osgoode Hall, 130 Queen Street West, Toronto, Ontario.
PROPOSED METHOD OF HEARING: The motion is to be heard orally.
THE MOTION IS FOR:
1. an Order:
a) certifying this action as a class proceeding pursuant to the Class Proceedings Act, 1992 (the “CPA”);
b) describing the class as:
All persons who voluntarily provided a bodily substance sample, which was subject to forensic DNA analysis by the Ontario Centre of Forensic Sciences and for whom the forensic analysis created results which established that the voluntarily given sample did not match 2
any bodily samples obtained within the meaning of s. 487.05(1)(b) of the Criminal Code, for the time period June 30, 2000 to the present.
(together referred to as the “Class Members” or the “Class”);
c) appointing Micky Granger as the representative plaintiff of the Class;
d) appointing Goldblatt Partners LLP as class counsel;
e) stating that the common issues in this proceeding are as set out in Appendix “A”;
f) specifying that the Class shall be notified of the certification of this action in a manner to be approved by the Court, and that Class Members shall have a right to opt out of the action in a manner to be approved by the Court;
g) the costs of this motion; and,
h) such other order as this Honourable Court may deem just.
THE GROUNDS FOR THE MOTION ARE:
1. the Class Members all voluntarily donated a bodily substance sample, in most instances a saliva sample, which was analysed by the Centre of Forensic Sciences (CFS) to extract DNA to be compared to DNA found at a crime scene;
2. the analysis performed by the CFS created a DNA profile for each Class Member and other investigative results which were kept by the Defendant;
3. the Class Members were all assisting law enforcement in the investigation of criminal offences;
4. the Class Members’ DNA was not a match for DNA from a crime which was being investigated;
5. the Criminal Code requires the destruction and permanent removal of access for DNA samples and results of DNA analysis for innocent voluntary donors; 3
6. the destruction and permanent removal of access pursuant to the Criminal Code must occur without delay once the voluntary donor is found to not match a crime scene;
7. the CFS keeps the DNA profiles of the Class Members along with other investigative results in a database accessible to select staff members at CFS;
8. the CFS keeps the DNA profiles and other investigative results due to the automated and inherently common process of forensic analysis and record retention practices of the Defendant;
9. the retention of the DNA profiles and investigative results is contrary to the Criminal Code and as a result in violation of the Class Members’ section 8 right to be secure against unreasonable search or seizure pursuant to the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. The retention is a violation of the Class Member’s right to privacy and constitutes the tort of intrusion upon seclusion;
10. the consent of the Class Members in donating their DNA was not fully informed given the Defendant’s retention practice which was not made known to the Class Members;
11. this action meets the criteria for certification set out in s. 5(1) of the CPA, namely;
a) the Class Members’ have a viable cause of action for the violation of their privacy and violation of their section 8 right under the Charter;
b) there is an identifiable class objectively bound by time and the practice of DNA collection and analysis as dictated by the Criminal Code;
c) the retention at issue is common to the Class Members and the product of an automated process that raises common issues;
d) a class action would be the preferable procedure; and, 4
e) there is a representative plaintiff who would be prepared to act in the best interests of the Class.
12. the Class Proceedings Act, 1992, S.O. 1992 c. 6, and in particular, sections 5, 12, 17, 19-25, 34 and 35;
13. the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, and in particular sections 8 and 24;
14. The Criminal Code, R.S.C., 1985, c. C-46, s. 487; and,
15. such further and other grounds as counsel may advise and this Honourable Court may permit.
THE FOLLOWING DOCUMENTARY EVIDENCE will be used at the hearing of the motion:
1. The following affidavits and the exhibits thereto:
a) Micky Granger, to be sworn;
b) Tanya Atherfold-Desilva, sworn March 18, 2019.
2. The pleadings and proceedings herein; and,
3. Such further and other material as counsel may advise and this Honourable Court may permit.
March 18, 2019 GOLDBLATT PARTNERS LLP 20 Dundas Street West, Suite 1039 Toronto ON M5G 2C2
Jody Brown LS# 58844D Tel: 416-979-4251 / Fax: 416-591-7333 Email: [email protected]
Geetha Philipupillai LS#: 74741S [email protected] Tel: 416-979-4252 /Fax: 416-591-7333
Lawyers for the Plaintiff 5
TO: HER MAJESTY THE QUEEN IN RIGHT OF THE PROVINCE OF ONTARIO Crown Law Office – Civil Law 720 Bay Street, 8th Floor Toronto, ON, M5G 2K1
Amy Leamen LS#: 49351R Tel: 416.326.4153 Fax: 416.326.4181
Lawyers for the Defendant 6
APPENDIX “A”: LIST OF COMMON ISSUES
1. Is a DNA profile a “result” within the meaning of s. 487.09(3) of the Criminal Code?
2. Is the Defendant’s record retention practice regarding the Class, including but not limited to the retention of DNA profiles, in violation of s. 487.09(3) of the Criminal Code?
3. If the answer to common issue 2 is “yes”, did the Defendant breach the Class Members' rights under section 8 of the Charter by virtue of the retention of results or in the initial seizure of bodily substances?
(a) If so, are its actions saved by section 1 of the Charter? 4. If the answer to common issue 2 is “yes”, does the Defendant’s conduct amount to the tort of intrusion upon seclusion?
5. If the answer to common issue 2 is “yes”, did the Defendant breach information destruction obligations owed to the Cass pursuant to the Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act?
6. If the answer to common issue 4 or 5 is “yes”, does the conduct of the Defendant warrant an award of punitive damages?
7. If the answer to common issue 3 is “yes” and 3(a) is “no”, are damages available to the Class under section 24 of the Charter?
8. If the answer to common issue 4, 5 or 6 is “yes”, can the Court make an aggregate assessment of the damages suffered by all Class Members? 7
GRANGER HER MAJESTY THE QUEEN IN RIGHT Plaintiff -and- OF THE PROVINCE OF ONTARIO Court File No.: CV-18-00598257-CP Defendants
ONTARIO SUPERIOR COURT OF JUSTICE
Proceeding commenced at TORONTO
Proceeding under the Class Proceeding Act, 1992
NOTICE OF MOTION (CERTIFICATION) (Returnable November 27 & 28, 2019)
GOLDBLATT PARTNERS LLP 20 Dundas Street West, Suite 1039 Toronto ON M5G 2C2
Jody Brown LS#: 58844D [email protected] Tel: 416-979-4251 /Fax: 416-591-7333
Geetha Philipupillai LS#: 74741S [email protected] Tel: 416-979-4252 /Fax: 416-591-7333
Lawyers for the Plaintiff 8
Court File No.: CV-18-00605134-00CP
ONTARIO SUPERIOR COURT OF JUSTICE
BETWEEN:
MICKY GRANGER Plaintiff
- and -
HER MAJESTY THE QUEEN IN RIGHT OF THE PROVINCE OF ONTARIO
Defendant
Proceeding under the Class Proceedings Act, 1992
AFFIDAVIT OF MICKY GRANGER (Sworn ______, 2019)
I, Micky Granger, of Princes Town, in the Republic of Trinidad and Tobago, MAKE OATH AND SAY:
1. I am the proposed representative plaintiff in this action. I have direct knowledge of the matters to which I depose in this affidavit. Where the information in this affidavit is not based on my direct knowledge, but is based upon information and belief from other sources, I have stated the source of that information and I believe that information to be true.
BACKGROUND
2. In October of 2013 I was working as a migrant worker on a farm near Tillsonburg,
Ontario. I had travelled from Trinidad and Tobago to Canada in approximately April of 2013 for work.
3. The police came to the farm I was working on in October of 2013. The police wanted to take a DNA sample from all the workers on the farm. The rest of the farm workers were mostly from Trinidad and Jamaica. - 2 - 9
4. I knew the police were investigating a crime in the area and I knew I had not committed any crime. I gave my DNA because I thought that if I didn’t it could hurt my job and the police would think I committed the crime.
5. Several police officers came to the building where I was living on the farm with other workers. I cannot remember precisely how many police officers attended, but it was about 4 police vehicles.
6. I remember I signed a piece of paper the police gave to me. I have been told now that the paper I signed was likely a consent. I never received a copy of the consent. The police took the paper I signed.
7. The police asked me several questions, like how old I was. I answered the questions the police asked. I believe the questions I was asked were recorded, but I never received a copy of any notes or police recordings. I cannot remember the exact questions asked. I was alone with the police when they asked me questions.
8. To take the DNA from me, the police took me to a police van. I saw other workers go to the van. The police walked with me to where they took my DNA. The police took the DNA from me by reaching into my mouth and wiping a piece of cotton inside my mouth. The process was unpleasant.
9. In approximately November of 2013, I returned to Trinidad and Tobago.
10. After I gave my DNA I was never told that my DNA was not a match for the crime.
No one ever told me what was done with my DNA sample or what was done with the results from my DNA sample. - 3 - 10
11. I was innocent of the crime police were investigating. I thought if I was innocent, all the things I gave the police would be destroyed.
MY WILLINGNESS TO BE A REPRESENTATIVE PLAINTIFF
12. I was not convicted of any crime that resulted in the police keeping my DNA. I was never told by anybody that my DNA or any test results had been destroyed.
13. I am willing to represent the other workers from the farm and other people that had their DNA taken by police and were not convicted of a crime. I do not believe I have a conflict with the other potential members of the lawsuit.
14. I have retained Goldblatt Partners LLP to bring this lawsuit and I am relying on my lawyers to complete this class action. I do not have any form of legal training.
15. I have been advised by Jody Brown that the Class Proceedings Fund has given this case money. I would not be able to bring this case on my own and I believe it would be hard for the other workers to bring it.
16. I swear this affidavit in support of a motion for certification of this action as a class proceeding and for no other or improper purpose.
SWORN BEFORE ME at ______in the______, this ______day of ______, 2019. Micky Granger
A Commissioner for taking Affidavits (or as may be)
11
GRANGER HER MAJESTY THE QUEEN IN RIGHT Plaintiff -and- OF THE PROVINCE OF ONTARIO Court File No.: CV-18-00598257-00CP Defendant
ONTARIO SUPERIOR COURT OF JUSTICE
Proceeding commenced at TORONTO
Proceeding under the Class Proceedings Act, 1992
AFFIDAVIT OF MICKY GRANGER (Sworn ______, 2019)
GOLDBLATT PARTNERS LLP 20 Dundas Street West, Suite 1039 Toronto ON M5G 2C2
Jody Brown LS#: 58844D [email protected] Tel: 416-979-4251 / Fax: 416-591-7333
Geetha Philipupillai LS#: 74741S [email protected] Tel: 416-979-4252 /Fax: 416-591-7333
Lawyers for the Plaintiff 12
Court File No.: CV-18-00605134-00CP
ONTARIO SUPERIOR COURT OF JUSTICE
BETWEEN:
MICKY GRANGER
Plaintiff
- and -
HER MAJESTY THE QUEEN IN RIGHT OF THE PROVINCE OF ONTARIO
Defendant
Proceeding under the Class Proceedings Act, 1992
AFFIDAVIT OF TANYA ATHERFOLD-DESILVA (Sworn March 18, 2019)
I, Tanya Atherfold-Desilva, of the City of Brampton, in the Regional Municipality of Peel, Province of Ontario, MAKE OATH AND SAY:
1. I am a law clerk with the law firm of Goldblatt Partners LLP (“GP” or “Class
Counsel”), counsel for the Plaintiff in this action, and as such I have direct knowledge of the matters to which I hereinafter depose in this affidavit. Where the information in this affidavit is not based on my direct knowledge, but is based upon information and belief from other sources, I have stated the source of that information and I believe that information to be true.
REPORT OF THE INDEPENDENT POLICE REVIEW DIRECTOR
2. On July 12, 2016, the Office of the Independent Police Review Director (OIPRD) released a report entitled Casting The Net: A Review of Ontario Provincial Police Practices for DNA Canvasses (the “OIPRD Report”). A copy of the OIPRD Report is attached as
Exhibit "A". The OIPRD Report resulted from a complaint regarding a DNA canvass - 2 - 13
conducted in Elgin County in 2013. I understand from the Affidavit of Micky Granger that he was one of the individuals who donated a DNA sample as part of the 2013 canvass subject to the OIPRD Report.
3. The OIPRD also produced an Executive Summary and Recommendations regarding
DNA collection. A copy of the OIPRD Executive Summary and Recommendations is attached as Exhibit "B".
4. The OIPRD also set out the Terms of Reference of its review. A copy of the OIPRD
Terms of Reference are attached as Exhibit "C".
5. The OIPRD Report made several observations, including:
Deoxyribonucleic acid – DNA – is a molecule that contains a unique genetic code. It is found in virtually every tissue in the human body. The DNA in blood is the same as the DNA in skin cells, saliva, and the roots of hair. DNA is a powerful tool for identifying individuals. With the exception of identical twins, each person’s DNA is unique.
With the advent of modern technology, DNA can be extracted from a small biological sample, such as a drop of blood or a swab of the inner cheek for buccal epithelial cells. The resulting sample can be analyzed, creating a DNA profile that may be used to identify a particular individual.
….
In my view, the underlying rationale for subsection 487.09(3) includes protecting the privacy interests of cleared individuals who provide DNA samples to the police, and ensuring that they are not prejudiced in the future by the unwarranted retention of records pertaining to them. It is important that appropriate practices and procedures exist respecting the disposition of such records. Such practices and procedures protect the legitimate privacy interests of innocent persons, and if known more generally, also reduce the disincentives to providing DNA samples voluntarily. These important interests must be reconciled with the need for police accountability and effective policing – both of which entail the preservation of some documentation of the police investigation.
The issues here transcend DNA canvassing, or indeed the preservation of records pertaining to the results of DNA testing. Their resolution has significant implications for individual privacy and policing. The issues also - 3 - 14
arise at a time in which heightened scrutiny is being directed to the retention of policing records, and its impact on those affected. My recommendations address the future work that must be done in this area.
…
In total, the police took DNA samples from 96 migrant workers. The men ranged in age from 22 to 68. They ranged in height from 5'2" to 6'6". They ranged in weight from 110 lbs. to 328 lbs.
…
In the circumstances, it is hardly surprising that some workers felt that they were being racially profiled.
...
…Subsection 487.09(3) is not confined to the destruction of bodily substances (that is, DNA samples). It also requires the destruction of the results of forensic DNA analysis or, in the case of results in electronic form, the permanent removal of access to those results if they are in electronic form. Again, these are only the results of forensic DNA analysis that has cleared individuals who voluntarily provided samples.
Currently, the Consent to Provide Biological Samples form reflects that “the samples will be destroyed and electronic data related to the samples will be permanently removed once it is determined that the bodily substance does not match to the crime under investigation.”
The CFS memorandum dated February 7, 2013, instructs Ontario police services that it is their responsibility to ensure Criminal Code compliance with respect to the remaining original comparison sample which has been returned to them by the CFS (i.e., “destruction of the sample and permanent deletion of the information that links the name of the person to the comparison sample”). The OPP Manual – Version 10 directs, as already noted, that investigators shall destroy any sample materials returned by the CFS without delay as outlined in the Criminal Code. It goes on to state that “[a]ccording to a legal opinion obtained from the Ministry of the Attorney General, dated May 24, 2012, all related reports, documents and videotapes in police custody may be retained.” The OPP maintains that the legal opinion itself is privileged, and hence, its contents are not reflected in my Report.
….
The OPP advised me that documents and electronic data relating to the investigation are retained indefinitely. The offences involved here (sexual assault with a weapon and forcible confinement) are “threshold offences,” making the investigation a “major case.” OPP Police Orders and the Police Services Act require the use of the Ontario Major Case Management system - 4 - 15
in such investigations. Major Case Management is supported by the software program PowerCase for records management. The names and particulars of individuals canvassed are recorded in PowerCase. PowerCase is managed directly by the Ontario Ministry of Community Safety and Correctional Services. Information inputted into PowerCase by police services is stored for an indefinite period of time and information cannot be permanently deleted by police agencies
6. The Executive Summary and Recommendations from OPIRD Report noted that:
Any consent to provide a DNA sample must be informed and voluntary. This means, among other things, that:
i. the police should advise the individual that he or she is not required to provide a DNA sample
ii. the police should not advise the individual that they can obtain a warrant to secure the DNA sample if it is not provided voluntarily
iii. the police should not coerce or threaten the individual to obtain a DNA sample
iv. the police should advise the individual that he or she may retain or consult a lawyer prior to deciding whether to provide a DNA sample voluntarily
v. the police should advise the individual how any DNA sample will be taken, and by whom
vi. the police should advise the individual what use will be made of the DNA sample and what will be done with the DNA sample and related information/data once the investigation is completed. Such advice must be consistent with the mandatory provisions of s. 487.09(3) of the Criminal Code. …
Consents should be obtained in writing. The written consent should accurately reflect, in plain language, among other things:
i. the fact that the individual is not required to provide a DNA sample
ii. the use that will be made of the DNA sample and what will be done with the DNA sample and related information/data once the investigation is completed. The consent should specifically reflect that the DNA sample will only be used for the purposes of the subject investigation and for no other purposes and that it will not be retained if, as a result of DNA testing or other investigative work, the individual is cleared as a suspect in the subject investigation.
7. The OPIRD Report made several findings, including: - 5 - 16
The DNA canvassing of virtually every local migrant worker of colour, regardless of his physical characteristics, was overly broad. while it was not based on stereotypical assumptions about migrant workers or persons of colour (and as such, did not amount to racial profiling) it nonetheless could reasonably be expected to impact on the migrant workers’ sense of vulnerability, lack of security and fairness. A more focused DNA canvass would have been appropriate.
EVIDENCE FILED IN HUMAN RIGHTS PROCEEDING
8. The OPP filed an affidavit in a Human Rights Proceeding in the name of David D.J.
Truax, sworn August 30, 2016 (“Truax Affidavit”). I understand from the affidavit that at the time of the affidavit David Truax held the rank of Detective Superintendent with the OPP. A copy of the Truax Affidavit is attached as Exhibit "D".
9. The Truax Affidavit stated the following evidence:
The Centre of Forensic Sciences maintain the consent DNA Profile and code number, but without a name. It is my understanding that only authorized individuals within the CFS can access the CFS databases
…
I have been advised by Mr. Tessarolo and do verily believe it to be true that the reason the CFS maintains the excluded donor’s DNA profile and code number at all is because of the extraordinary practical difficulties in deleting this information. Robotic technology used by the CFS permits large numbers of DNA samples submitted to the CFS to be analyzed at the same time; the technology however makes it virtually impossible for the CFS to selectively destroy DNA extracts from excluded donors. I have also been advised that it is virtually impossible for the CFS to destroy the code number because the code number is electronically embedded in a complex computer program. Thus, while the CFS does not maintain any bodily substances from submitted DNA samples, it retains the DNA profile, but without a name connecting the profile to the individual who provided the sample.
…
…The following process is followed for the gathering of a saliva sample.
A Forensic Identification Officer, using a cotton tip (buccal swab), will collect a sample of saliva from the individual’s mouth and will place that sample in a package. The package containing the saliva sample is assigned an exhibit numbers and the donor’s name and is submitted to the Ontario Centre of - 6 - 17
Forensic Sciences (the “CFS”). The donor’s name and identifiers are recorded in the records management system and PowerCase. Upon Receipt by the CFS, the sample is given a code number by the CFS in place of the donor’s name and, if not already redacted by the police service, the donor’s name is redacted by the CFS. The corresponding code number assigned by the Centre of Forensic Sciences is recorded on the CFS Report of Analysis and is entered into PowerCase as an attachment to the investigative file. The donor’s name and corresponding CFS Code are entered into the officer’s notebook in order to properly track and document which exhibits have been eliminated by the CFS through DNA analysis. The same information is also recorded in the records management system of the OPP to document the investigation. The DNA profile itself if never provided by the CFS to the OPP. [emphasis added]
CFS DOCUMENTS
10. On March 14, 2019, I retrieved from the webpage of the Centre of Forensic Sciences a copy of the Technical Information sheet for the DNA Databank, effective April 2, 2015. A copy of the Centre of Forensic Sciences Investigators & Submitters Technical Information
Sheets is attached as Exhibit "E".
11. On March 14, 2019, I retrieved from the webpage of the Centre of Forensic Sciences a copy of the Centre of Forensic Sciences, Technical Information Sheet, DNA Information, effective September 18, 2017. A copy of the Centre of Forensic Sciences, Technical
Information Sheet, DNA Information is attached as Exhibit "F".
12. The CFS webpage indicates that both of the above documents were “rescinded
September 12, 2018”
13. On March 14, 2019, I retrieved from the webpage of the Centre of Forensic Sciences a copy of the Centre of Forensic Sciences, Investigators & Submitters, BIOLOGY REPORT
GUIDE, effective November 13, 2018. A copy of the Centre of Forensic Sciences,
Investigators & Submitters, BIOLOGY REPORT GUIDE, is attached as Exhibit "G". - 7 - 18
HANSARD
14. I have attached below copies of Hansard that cover debates regarding legislative debates on DNA legislation:
a. attached as Exhibit "H" is a copy of Hansard from September 25, 1997;
b. attached as Exhibit "I" is a copy of Hansard from March 27, 1998;
c. attached as Exhibit "J" is a copy of Hansard from May 12, 1998;
d. attached as Exhibit "K" is a copy of Hansard from September 29, 1998.
FURTHER REPORTS ON DNA COLLECTION
15. Attached as Exhibit "L" is a copy of the Public Protection, Privacy and the Search for
Balance: A Statutory Review of the DNA Identification Act, Final Report, dated June 2010.
16. Attached as Exhibit "M" is a copy of BILL C-3: THE DNA IDENTIFICATION
ACT, Prepared by Marilyn Pilon, Law and Government Division, 14 October 1997, Revised
22 May 1998.
17. The Annual Report of the Privacy Commissioner 1998-99 discussed the DNA
Identification Act at page 42. Attached as Exhibit "N" is a copy of the Annual Report of the
Privacy Commissioner 1998-99.
18. Attached as Exhibit "O" is a copy of the proposed litigation plan in this proceeding.
19. I swear this affidavit in support of a motion for certification of this action as a class proceeding and for no other or improper purpose.
21
Contents
Acknowledgements 1
CHAPTER ONE Overview 2 Summary of Findings, 4
CHAPTER TWO The OPP Investigation 7
CHAPTER THREE The Complaint and Stakeholders’ Submissions 22 The Complaint, 22 Initial Submissions, 23 The Roundtable and Submissions on a Draft Policy, 28 Final Observations on Stakeholders’ Submissions, 28
CHAPTER FOUR Statutory and Historical Background to DNA Canvassing 30 DNA Testing, 30 Collecting DNA, 31 The Use of DNA Canvasses as an Investigative Technique, 32 DNA Canvasses and Voluntariness, 32 Concerns about DNA Canvasses, 33 The History of DNA Canvasses, 34 DNA Canvasses in Canada, 34 DNA Canvasses in the United States, 36 DNA Canvasses in Canadian Jurisprudence, 40 Destruction of DNA Samples and the Results of Forensic Analysis, 41
CHAPTER FIVE Findings and Analysis 47
CHAPTER SIX Recommendations 64
CHAPTER SEVEN Conclusion 88
Appendices 90 22 OIPRD Office of the Independent Police Review Director 1
ACkNOwleDgemeNTS
I am grateful to my counsel, Mark J. Sandler, whose sound advice and prior experience as counsel to a number of public inquiries and systemic reviews have been invaluable in the structuring of this review and the preparation of my Report.
I am equally appreciative of the work done by Jonathan A. Shime, an excellent criminal litigator who also served as my counsel on this review and contributed greatly to the work done.
To the OIPRD staff members who worked on the systemic review and Report, a heart felt thank you. Your commitment and belief in the work we do is outstanding and is most appreciated.
Staff Systemic Review and Report Team: Rosemary Parker: analysis, research and editorial coordination Amelia Martin: analysis, research Bernie Mueller, Evelyn Wayne, Ken Cormier: investigations Camille Williams, Richard Beatty: research Victoria Musgrave: copyediting Sylvana Capogreco, Deputy Director: counsel and advice Michael Mamo, Chief Operations Officer
Special thanks to Rosemary Parker for her continuous input, fact-checking and review.
And to Roberta Ross, my Executive Assistant, who kept me on track.
Gerry McNeilly Independent Police Review Director 23
CHAPTER ONE Overview
Bayham is a rural municipality in southwestern behind, covering her mouth. When she tried to Ontario. It lies south of Tillsonburg on the eastern stand up and turn toward her attacker, he spun edge of Elgin County. Roads trace a grid across her around and thrust a large knife in front of orchards and farmland that extend down to Lake her face. She continued to struggle, putting her Erie. cigarette out on his chest. She was able to see Jane Doe1 lived alone on one of those roads. that her attacker was a black man wearing a Her house was surrounded by fields, orchards hoodie pulled low over his eyes. He pushed her and a ravine that dipped deep into the landscape; and she fell backward, striking her head against across the road stood a forest. Her closest the brick wall of the house. Then he threw her to neighbour was 240 metres away, approximately the ground and dragged her into the house. one city block. Inside, the attacker shoved Ms. Doe to At about 9 p.m. on October 19, 2013, she the floor on her stomach. As she continued to stepped onto her porch to have a cigarette. It was struggle, he straddled her, pulled her head back, a cool autumn evening, clear after the rain earlier wrapped a cloth around her neck and started in the day. She sat down on a lawn chair as she lit to strangle her. She was choking, so she told her cigarette. him she would stop fighting. He blindfolded her Suddenly, a gloved hand grabbed her from and tied her wrists. He told her he had come to
1 There is a court-imposed publication ban to protect the victim’s identity. 24 OIPRD Office of the Independent Police Review Director 3
murder her, but instead was going to rape her. He hoodie pulled down over his eyes, blue-green then sexually assaulted her. He was in her home gloves with a rubbery coating and dark cotton for about 45 minutes. Before leaving, he removed work pants. He was between 5'10'' and 6' tall, the original restraints from her wrists, gagged muscular and possibly in his mid to late 20s. her and used rope to tie her hands and feet. He He was black, fairly dark, with no facial hair and threatened to murder her if she called the police. had a low voice with a heavy accent, which she After Ms. Doe’s attacker left, she was able thought to be Jamaican. to free herself from the restraints. She locked An intensive search for Jane Doe’s attacker the front door, shut off the inside lights and sat followed. That search is documented in the on the floor. She was undoubtedly traumatized. Report that follows. Ultimately, the OPP arrested Eventually, she telephoned a girlfriend, and then Henry Cooper, a migrant worker from Trinidad. He her ex-boyfriend. They came to the house and pleaded guilty to sexual assault with a weapon, encouraged her to report the attack to the police. forcible confinement and uttering death threats. The next afternoon, October 20, 2013, she He was sentenced to seven years in prison. reported the crime to the Ontario Provincial Police Although the police investigation resulted in (OPP) over the phone. She provided a description the successful arrest and prosecution of Henry of her attacker to the dispatcher: “I do know that Cooper, questions were raised about how the he was one of the migrant workers they bring in to investigation had been conducted. Police decided do the crops. He had a hoodie on pulled over his that DNA samples would be taken from each of head. He had gloves on. …I would not be able to the many migrant workers in the vicinity. This identify him, no. …I watch these guys go up and investigative tool is known in Canada as a “DNA down my road all the time this time of year. I know canvass.”2 The fact that it targeted only migrant it was one of them. He was a black guy. I’m not workers of colour raises important questions sure if they’re from Jamaica. There was an accent about whether the police were engaged in for sure. I’m guessing Jamaican….I live here racial profiling, discriminatory practices and/ alone and I know the guy, he sees me all the time or perpetuating stereotypes about the targeted sitting on my front porch and he knows I’m here community. alone.” When the DNA canvass was being conducted, Constables Nelson and Snedden were the police did not have reasonable grounds to dispatched to the victim’s home. They were joined believe that a particular migrant worker was by Detective Constable Nolan, who was assigned the attacker. Accordingly, DNA samples could as the primary investigator. Detective Staff only be legally obtained directly from donors Sergeant Raffay was the investigation’s major with their informed and voluntary consents. case manager. Important questions were raised about whether When the police arrived, Jane Doe again the consents obtained were truly informed and described her attacker. She told them that voluntary, particularly given the vulnerability of the although she was blindfolded for much of the migrant worker community. Concerns were also attack, she could still see from under the bottom expressed about the retention and potential future of the blindfold. Her attacker was wearing a grey use of DNA samples taken from workers who
2 In the United States, it is more commonly referred to as a “DNA sweep.” For convenience, I have used the term “DNA canvass or canvassing” throughout this Report, unless referring to the American experience. 25 Casting the Net 4 A Review of Ontario Provincial Police Practices for DNA Canvasses
had no connection to the crime. These and other SummARy OF FINDINgS concerns were reflected in the complaint filed with the Office of the Independent Police Director For the reasons reflected in this Report, I am (OIPRD), and in submissions from various satisfied that the OPP investigation was not stakeholders in support of the complaint. motivated by racial prejudice, as alleged in the In my view, these important questions were complaint to the OIPRD. best addressed through a systemic review of OPP The police were investigating a violent sex policies, procedures, standards and practices assault. A sexual predator remained at large. for conducting DNA canvasses and obtaining Based on the victim’s description of her attacker, DNA on consent from vulnerable groups during the frequent use of the road in front of her home criminal investigations.3 Section 57 of the Police by local migrant workers, and the demographics Services Act gives the Independent Police Review in this rural community, the police had ample Director the power to examine and review issues grounds to believe that the perpetrator was of a systemic nature that may give rise to public one of the local migrant workers of colour. The complaints, and make recommendations to the attacker had potentially left his DNA at the Minister of Community Safety and Correctional scene of the crime. He had also brought items Services (MCSCS), the Attorney General, chiefs to the crime scene that might contain his DNA. of police, police services boards and any other There were significant time constraints on the body. A systemic review is not designed to find investigation. The majority of the migrant workers individual misconduct, but to identify and address were scheduled to leave Canada and return to larger issues of systemic importance. their home countries in short order. Some had In conducting this review, the OIPRD already departed. In the circumstances, the police examined the public complaint that was filed decided that a DNA canvass of local migrant and interviewed 10 officers involved in the workers would be an important investigative tool. investigation, as well as civilian witnesses, I take no issue with that decision. Indeed, the including 32 of the migrant workers. We reviewed decision to conduct the DNA canvass enabled the officers’ notes and statements, minutes of police to focus on, and ultimately apprehend, meetings, occurrence reports, audio and video the perpetrator. recordings of interviews, completed consent However, the DNA canvass in this case was forms and questionnaires, photographs, forensic designed to obtain DNA from every migrant evidence, OPP policies, procedures, practices worker of colour, regardless of his age, height, and training materials. We requested and weight, the presence or absence of facial hair or received extremely helpful submissions from other defining characteristics. I recognize that, stakeholders and members of the public. We in some respects, Ms. Doe’s description lacked examined relevant jurisprudence and literature detail. The composite drawing prepared by the from inside and outside Canada. We also police may or may not have closely resembled conducted a roundtable to obtain feedback the attacker. As well, the inherent frailties of from a number of stakeholders on potential eyewitness descriptions meant that investigators recommendations for change. could reasonably assume that features of Ms. Doe’s description might not be accurate. That
3 The Terms of Reference are reproduced in Appendix A to this Report. 26 OIPRD Office of the Independent Police Review Director 5
being said, the migrant workers were treated as truly informed and voluntary. The role played by potential persons of interest and asked to provide the farm owners and their staff also contributed their DNA to the authorities when a number of to concerns about whether all of the consents them could not have met even the most generous obtained were truly voluntary. In fairness, the interpretation of Ms. Doe’s description. OPP took significant steps to attempt to ensure Investigators maintained that the breadth that consents were informed and voluntary. My of DNA canvassing was appropriate since the recommendations address how the police can perpetrator left items (shoelaces and a strip of better recognize the particular vulnerabilities clothing) at the crime scene. These items might at play, so as to negate perceived and actual conceivably have been taken or borrowed by the racial profiling or stereotypical thinking while perpetrator from other migrant workers, whose not compromising the effectiveness of their DNA on these items might have indirectly led to investigations. discovery of the perpetrator. Finally, the authorities were obligated in law to In my view, this rationale did not provide destroy the DNA samples of individuals cleared sufficient justification for the decision to seek in the investigation. The Centre of Forensic DNA samples from every local migrant worker of Sciences (CFS) and the OPP did this in a timely colour, regardless of his physical characteristics. way. However, this will be news to a number of While I am satisfied that, in the particular the migrant workers, who did not understand circumstances of this case, the overly broad that their DNA samples would be or had been DNA canvassing was not based on stereotypical destroyed. I conclude that the OPP could have assumptions about migrant workers or persons of taken additional steps to explain the destruction colour, it is perfectly understandable why it would process to individuals asked to provide DNA have been perceived as such by members of samples as well as the fact that their samples the community and public interest organizations. would not be used to investigate other crimes. Regardless of a lack of intent or motivation to Most importantly, it would have been preferable discriminate, the nature and scope of the DNA if the police had taken steps to notify the migrant canvassing could reasonably be expected to workers in a timely way, to the extent practicable, have an impact on the migrant workers’ sense of that their DNA samples were about to be or had vulnerability, lack of security and fairness. It could been destroyed. also send the wrong message to others in the The OPP has no specific policy that governs local community about how migrant workers, as how and when DNA canvasses are to be a group, should be regarded. Conversely, a more conducted. In my view, such a policy should be focused DNA canvass, together with additional created by the OPP and similarly situated police measures discussed in this Report, could have services in Ontario to identify and ensure best alleviated or reduced concerns about racial practices and compliance with the law. This profiling. Report provides guidance on the contents of such I also conclude that the investigation failed a policy. It also makes recommendations for best to recognize the particular vulnerabilities of the practices to be adopted to ensure that any future migrant worker community targeted by the DNA DNA canvasses do not result in a repetition of the canvass and how those vulnerabilities were concerns identified in this Report. relevant to whether the consents obtained were Policing relies heavily on public acceptance 27 Casting the Net 6 A Review of Ontario Provincial Police Practices for DNA Canvasses
and a shared commitment to justice. It is important that policing not only be free from racism, racial profiling, bias and discrimination, but be perceived as such by the community. This Report is designed to assist in achieving that goal. 28
CHAPTER TWO The OPP Investigation
I have already described the initial OPP response Brown then escorted the victim and her friend to Jane Doe’s report, and her description of the to the Sexual Assault Centre at the St. Joseph’s attacker to responding officers. This chapter Health Centre in London. The staff conducted a outlines those steps subsequently taken in the medical examination, completed a Sexual Assault investigation that are of importance to this review. Examination Kit, and turned the kit over to Brown It is not designed to capture everything that was as evidence. done. A more detailed description of contentious Meanwhile, Detective Constable Nolan features of the DNA canvass is best done as part canvassed the victim’s neighbours and of my analysis and findings in chapter five. determined that they neither saw nor heard anything. October 20, 2013 At 6:58 p.m. OPP Forensic Identification At 5:15 p.m. on October 20, 2013 (the same day Service (FIS) officers attended at the home of the the attack was reported), Constable Snedden victim to take photographs and collect evidence. escorted the victim and her friend, M.T., to a local At 9:15 p.m. Detective Constable Clarke hospital. Detective Constable Brown attended interviewed the victim’s ex-boyfriend. As noted the hospital and while the victim was being previously, the victim had initially reported the examined, interviewed M.T. Detective Constable attack to him and to her friend M.T. 29 Casting the Net 8 A Review of Ontario Provincial Police Practices for DNA Canvasses
October 21, 2013 I said you’re one of those guys I see up and At 8:41 a.m. OPP officers assigned to the case down the road and that’s when we tussled… met to discuss the investigation. They decided to and he kept trying to turn me away from him. take a number of steps, including: Jane Doe told Detective Constable Brown that 1. Searching the area around the victim’s she assumed the culprit kept trying to turn her residence and continuing to interview the around so she would not look at him. He also neighbours tied a cloth around her eyes. However, she was 2. Attending at Martin’s Farm4, a nearby farm, to “peeking out from under the bandana.” get a list of the workers and the kind of gloves In that interview, she provided the following they used description of the perpetrator: 3. Submitting the laces and straps found at the scene to the CFS • Black, fairly dark but not the darkest end of the 4. Engaging the Major Case Management spectrum, full lips, full nose system and contacting the OPP Behavioural • No facial hair Sciences Division • Mid to late 20s 5. Issuing a media alert • 5'10'' to 6' tall 6. Attending at a bank in Tillsonburg to obtain a • Muscular list of migrant workers who banked there • Possibly right handed 7. Checking area hospitals to see if anyone had • Very low, raspy voice with a heavy accent. She attended for injuries said she had trouble understanding him. It struck 8. Checking taxi records her as a Jamaican accent 9. Conducting additional forensic examination of • Wearing a grey hoodie, work-type cotton-like the stairway at the residence pants and white socks
At 11:25 a.m. Detective Constable Brown In the interview, the victim was sure her attacker conducted a formal interview with Jane Doe. She was a migrant worker. She saw migrant workers elaborated on her previous description of her on the road in front of her house on many attacker and the events. She said this: occasions. She said:
You could see because of the sentinel light. I There’s an apple orchard right next to my kept trying to see and like he’s in the shadows property and that’s where they go in. When and of course he had his hoodie pulled down, they go by there’s guys that they’ll wave and but it didn’t take me long to realize he was a I wave back. Or in the evening you might see black guy and then it occurred to me he’s one a couple of them on bicycles riding by in their of these guys I see go up and down this road free time and they might yell “Hi” and I’ll say every day. I even said that to him because I “Hi”. That’s the extent of the contact I’ve ever kept saying “Who are you? Who are you?” had with them. Then I had looked and I was facing him and
4 All farm and bunkhouse names are taken from the OPP’s Major Case Management files disclosed to the OIPRD. They do not necessarily reflect the precise corporate or legal names involved. 30 OIPRD Office of the Independent Police Review Director 9
Martin’s Farm has fields and orchards in the 100 metres into another cornfield next to the area, several of which are in close proximity to victim’s residence. One of its officers estimated the Ms. Doe’s home. Martin’s Farm also has several impression to be that of a size nine man’s shoe bunkhouses or residences where the migrant with no thread wear. An FIS officer photographed workers live. They, too, are not far from the the impression and mapped its location. victim’s home. These residences include: Commencing at 1:30 p.m. Detective Constable Nolan interviewed several of the • Rosenberger House victim’s neighbours. This yielded no additional • Pastor’s House information. • Wilk’s House (it has two bunkhouses on the At 2:33 p.m. Detective Constable Nolan property) attended a bank in Tillsonburg, where he inquired whether the bank kept a master list of customers There are several other farms in the area. who were migrant workers. No such list existed. They include: At 4:20 p.m. Detective Sergeant Johnstone contacted composite artist Constable Zuidervliet • Manary Farm to meet with Jane Doe to create a composite • Crevits Farm sketch of the suspect. • Wizniak Farm At 5:35 p.m. Detective Staff Sergeant Raffay, • Pihokker Farm Detective Sergeant Johnstone, Detective Sergeant Gonneau and Inspector Peer met to At 12:16 p.m. Detective Constable Wouters discuss the direction of the investigation. Notes of attended the Martin’s Farm office and spoke with that meeting reflect that: the owner, Leighton Martin, and the supervisor, John Banman. Wouters asked for a list of the 1.The police needed to contact the Jamaican migrant workers who were employed by Martin’s consulate to determine how many Jamaican Farm. Martin agreed to produce a list. That workers were in the area. afternoon, Wouters received a sample of the 2. All the items that had been seized by the FIS gloves worn by the Martin’s Farm workers. The should be delivered to the CFS right away. particular sample was yellow and red, though 3. The police would get the names of the migrant another officer later observed blue and green workers from the farmers, interview them and gloves being used in the field. seek to obtain their DNA on consent. This At 1 p.m. an Emergency Response Team would be done on video (ultimately, it was (ERT) was deployed to search for evidence in audiotaped instead). the immediate proximity of the victim’s home. 4. The DNA collection would begin with the They found a blue glove approximately bunkhouse closest to the victim’s home, 15 metres into a cornfield behind the victim’s Rosenberger House, believed to house about residence, and turned it over to OPP FIS officers. 30 workers. Subsequently, police determined that the glove 5. A search of articles belonging to the workers was not associated with the case. ERT also would also be done in an effort to find the located a footwear impression approximately hoodie worn by the perpetrator. 31 Casting the Net 10 A Review of Ontario Provincial Police Practices for DNA Canvasses
6. The investigation would be turned over to • Mid to late 20s in age Detective Sergeant Johnstone, who was • Suspect was wearing a grey hoodie, dark pants supervising the Elgin County OPP at the time. and white socks Detective Sergeant Gonneau was to assist in the DNA canvass. At 6:12 p.m. Detective Sergeant Johnstone called Detective Constable Nolan to discuss taking Detective Staff Sergeant Raffay advised the statements and DNA swabs on consent from OIPRD that it was his decision to collect DNA migrant workers. Nolan advised that workers from the migrant workers. He explained that would be leaving for their home countries in decision as follows: two weeks, giving them time to complete the canvassing. Johnstone instructed Nolan to Well, the victim had provided information that arrange to question and take DNA consent the suspect had brought with him several samples the next day from the workers living and items including, I believe, two black shoelaces working on the farms closest to the victim’s home. or dark-coloured shoelace material and At approximately 9 p.m. FIS officers another fabric that was a piece of material, completed their examination of the inside of the I believe like a clothing or a shirt-type victim’s home, which included taking photographs material, like a strip ripped off that. There and swabbing for potential DNA. Detective was interaction between the suspect and the Sergeant Johnstone authorized the release of the victim which would make you believe that scene (that is, the residence) back to the victim. there could be DNA on these items. The victim provided a description of the suspect and October 22, 2013 some information on the suspect and from At 8:15 a.m. Detective Constable Nolan directed that information, I learned that there were Detective Constables Wouters and Vanbussel to several farms in the area that housed, or that meet with Mr. Martin, obtain a list of the names of employed migrant workers and that it seemed the migrant workers who lived at the Rosenberger like a logical step to canvass that area. And House and ascertain the addresses of the other being that those…well, the individuals were bunkhouses as well as their distance from the going to be leaving in a short period of time, home of the victim. we had to gather what evidence we could At 8:37 a.m. Detective Sergeant Johnstone and I thought it was a viable and a good advised Detective Constables Nolan and investigative technique to do that. Chandelier to obtain a Consent to Provide Biological Samples form and to create a question At 6:01 p.m. a media release requesting the sheet for interviewing the workers. public’s assistance in solving the crime was By 9 a.m. Detective Constable Nolan was issued. It included the following description of the able to compile a list of the three bunkhouses that suspect: were in closest proximity to the victim’s home. At approximately 9:30 a.m. Detective • Black male Constables Wouters and Vanbussel met with • 178cm (5'10'') – 183cm (6') in height with a Mr. Martin and Mr. Banman. They received a list muscular build, no facial hair of 30 workers who lived at Rosenberger House 32 OIPRD Office of the Independent Police Review Director 11
and 17 who lived at Pastor’s House. They also 1:00 p.m. It was designed to capture personal learned that on the evening of the attack, there information, including the worker’s date of birth had been a party at one of the two Martin’s Farm and physical description. It also contained bunkhouses on the Wilk’s House property. Some questions as to what the worker knew about workers from other bunkhouses attended the the incident, where he was at the relevant time, party, which took place from 8:30 p.m. to 2 a.m. whether someone could confirm that, whether At about 11 a.m. FIS Constable Bates other occupants of his residence were in the consulted with a CFS biologist regarding the residence at the relevant time and whether he investigation. The OPP was requesting that had information that made him suspect anyone. the DNA to be submitted for examination be As indicated earlier, the OPP needed a analyzed on an urgent basis. Later that afternoon, Consent to Provide Biological Samples form for Bates drove to Toronto with the Sexual Assault use when seeking samples of the workers’ DNA. Evaluation Kit and crime scene items, and A FIS officer provided investigators with the submitted them to the CFS. most up-to-date consent form available. While Meanwhile, Detective Constables Nolan the questionnaire was tailored to this specific and Chandelier worked to complete a draft investigation, the Consent to Provide Biological questionnaire to be used when interviewing Samples was a template form issued by the the workers. Detective Staff Sergeant Raffay Ministry of the Attorney General in 2005. It reads: approved the questionnaire at approximately 33 Casting the Net 12 A Review of Ontario Provincial Police Practices for DNA Canvasses 34 OIPRD Office of the Independent Police Review Director 13 35 Casting the Net 14 A Review of Ontario Provincial Police Practices for DNA Canvasses
At about 2:30 p.m. Detective Constables Nolan, for the police to attend Rosenberger House the Chandelier, Wouters and Vanbussel, along with following morning at 6 a.m. to obtain samples FIS Constable Sandhu, attended a Martin’s from the remaining residents who were working at Farm apple orchard. The officers arrived in two other orchards. unmarked police cars and the FIS officer brought At 6:50 p.m. the police held a case conference the forensic van. Farm owner Leighton Martin meeting at the St. Thomas detachment. The brought the workers out of the fields, three or following information was generated at that four at a time. The workers waited in Martin’s meeting: car until the officers were ready for them. The officers came to his car and escorted the workers 1. Detective Constables Wouters and Vanbussel to individual police cars. The interviews and had obtained a list of the migrant workers who requests for DNA samples took place inside the worked for Martin’s Farm and the bunkhouse police cars. The DNA consent form was read where each one was living that week. out to the workers, who confirmed their consent 2. The police had identified four Martin’s Farm by signing the form. This was audiotaped. (I will bunkhouses (described earlier). elaborate on what was and was not audiotaped 3. Every worker canvassed to date had signed later in this Report.) If the workers consented to the consent form and provided a sample of providing a DNA sample, they were escorted to his DNA. the forensic van, where buccal swabs were taken. 4. Detective Constables Nolan and Chandelier (Buccal swabs or smears refer to taking cells from indicated that none of the workers canvassed the inside of the cheek.) that day matched the description of the At 3:04 p.m. the officers went to another suspect or raised any concerns. nearby orchard to continue their questioning and 5. Detective Constable Nolan had observed the to obtain samples of the workers’ DNA. Mr. Martin gloves worn by the workers in the orchard. was again present at the orchard. They had a greenish-blue colour. A sample During the canvass, Mr. Martin advised the glove was obtained for reference purposes only. officers that he had previously confirmed with 6. FIS Constable Bates reported that the CFS the workers who resided at Pastor’s House would not have any results available for two that all of them, with one exception, were either weeks. in their residence or at the Wilk’s House party on the evening of October 19. He advised the October 23, 2013 officers that the absent worker was now working At about 6 a.m. five officers under the direction in the orchard. That worker was subsequently of Detective Constable Nolan and FIS Constable interviewed by police and consented to provide a Bates met at Rosenberger House, where they DNA sample. continued to interview workers and collect DNA By 6 p.m. the police had interviewed and samples from them. The officers again arrived collected DNA samples from 16 workers who in unmarked police cars and the forensic van. were working in the orchard. All of the workers According to John Banman, the supervisor, he who were canvassed consented to provide stood by the bunkhouse and helped to organize their DNA. and guide the workers to the police cars. The Arrangements were then made with Mr. Martin interviews and requests for DNA samples took 36 OIPRD Office of the Independent Police Review Director 15
place inside the cars. Again, police audiotaped As had previously been arranged, Constable the consents given. After the workers consented Zuidervliet, the composite artist, met with Jane to provide a DNA sample, they were escorted Doe and completed a sketch based on her to the forensic van, where the buccal swabs description of the suspect. The composite was were taken. submitted to investigators. Several residents from Pastor’s House were also present at Rosenberger House, having October 24, 2013 arrived on the bus that was transporting them to At 5 p.m. officers followed up on a report that a work. They, too, were interviewed and asked to man had found a knife in a field near the victim’s provide a sample of DNA. Twenty-three of the 24 residence while walking his dog. Police took a workers interviewed provided DNA samples. One statement from the witness and the knife was worker did not consent. seized as potential evidence. At about 8:50 a.m. the officers attended At about 6 p.m. Detective Constable Nolan Pastor’s House, where they interviewed the and FIS Constable Bates briefed 10 officers at the remaining seven workers at that residence. Vienna Community Centre on the canvassing to All seven workers consented to provide a be done that day, and the use of the questionnaire DNA sample. and the Consent to Provide Biological Samples That same morning, Detective Sergeant form. Detective Sergeant Gonneau was also in Raffay contacted the CFS both by email and attendance. telephone, requesting that it expedite its At about 6:30 p.m. the officers, under the examinations. He was advised that the best supervision of Detective Sergeant Gonneau, turnaround time would be two weeks, and that arrived at Wilk’s House where they interviewed the police should submit the anticipated 34 workers. Thirty-three provided DNA samples. comparison samples (that is, the samples One individual refused, citing religious reasons. obtained from workers) as soon as they received The police interview form described him as “East them, rather than awaiting the results of the Indian.” crime scene samples. The OPP were advised that two other That afternoon, Detective Constable Wouters residents of Wilk’s House were working at the spoke with John Banman, who provided the Martin’s Farm cold storage facility. Officers names of the liaison officers from the Seasonal attended at that location, interviewed the two Agricultural Worker Program (SAWP) that Martin’s workers and obtained samples of their DNA. Farm used as contacts for Jamaica and Trinidad. By 9 p.m. officers had interviewed 36 workers, Banman also confirmed that officers could attend taking 35 DNA samples on consent. Wilk’s House at 6:30 p.m. the following day to interview the workers who lived there and October 25, 2013 request their DNA. That morning, FIS Constable Bates prepared the Detective Constable Wouters called the collected DNA swabs for the CFS. They were East Caribbean Liaison Officer and left a voice submitted later that day. message that he wished to obtain the number of At 11:35 a.m. Detective Constables Nolan farms in Bayham with migrant workers and the and Chandelier attended at another nearby farm, number of those workers. Manary Farm. They spoke with the owner, Kathy 37 Casting the Net 16 A Review of Ontario Provincial Police Practices for DNA Canvasses
Manary, who advised that she employed nine Pihokker Farms. FIS Constable Bates collected workers, seven from the Eastern Caribbean and the DNA samples. In total, 17 workers were two from Trinidad. Two others had already left interviewed (nine at Manary, four at Wizniak and Canada and returned home earlier in October. four at Pihokker). Fifteen provided DNA samples. Manary did not employ any Jamaican workers. Two workers from Manary Farm refused to provide Manary was shown the composite drawing of samples. Both were described as “East Indian.” the suspect. She indicated that it resembled one of her employees, who had been AWOL (absent October 30, 2013 without leave) since September. Manary agreed At 11:15 a.m. Detective Staff Sergeant Raffay, to arrange a time for the police to canvass her Detective Constables Caslick, Chandelier, Nolan, employees. She also advised the police that there Vanbussel and Wouters, along with Inspector were several other farms in the immediate area Fishleigh, the Elgin County OPP detachment that employed migrant workers, including the commander, met for a case management Crevits Farm across the road. meeting. Nolan reported that Crevits Farm At 12:10 p.m. Nolan and Chandelier employed 14 migrant workers that year. On the attended the Crevits Farm, but no one was night of October 19, a harvest party was held at present. They then attended the Wizniak Farm, the farm. The owners and all workers were at the and spoke with its owner, John Wizniak. He party; however, two workers went to London at confirmed that on October 19, he employed some point in the evening. All workers left Canada six workers from Jamaica. One left Canada on October 22. on October 22, but five remained. Wizniak The officers discussed “how far out to go on was shown the composite of the suspect. He the farm canvassing,” given that “[t]here is no indicated that it did not resemble any of his reason for people to travel on the road…only workers, including the worker who had just left. the migrant workers travel this road to get to the However, he agreed to arrange a time for the fields.” The investigators also discussed how police to re-attend and canvass the workers. to properly record the DNA samples obtained At 12:37 p.m. Nolan and Chandelier arrived from the migrant workers. They decided that this at the Pihokker Farm, and spoke with its owner information would be captured on a spreadsheet. Frank Pihokker. He advised that he currently They also decided to obtain a DNA sample employed four workers. One other worker went from the victim’s ex-boyfriend, “for elimination AWOL two weeks prior. Mr. Pihokker was shown purposes.” the composite sketch of the suspect. He did not feel that it resembled any of his workers. October 31, 2013 – November 12, 2013 Pihokker was advised that he would be contacted Between October 31 and November 12, 2013, to arrange a time for his employees to be the pace of the investigation slowed somewhat. canvassed. Composite artist Constable Zuidervliet again met with the victim to complete a sketch of the knife October 28, 2013 she had been threatened with. The knife found Commencing at about 9 a.m. Detective in the field was similar to the one she described. Constables Wouters and Vanbussel questioned Accordingly, the knife was swabbed and the workers employed at the Manary, Wizniak and sample sent to the CFS for testing. 38 OIPRD Office of the Independent Police Review Director 17
On November 5, 2013, the CFS reported that possibly being a Jamaican off-shore worker. they had obtained a male DNA profile from the A large number of off-shore workers are items seized at the victim’s residence and from employed locally from Jamaica and many the victim’s Sex Assault Examination Kit. The have recently returned home. DNA profile from both locations “could not be excluded as coming from the same source.” The police investigation has generated a On November 8, 2013, the CFS reported that strong suspect DNA profile. all of the DNA samples from the buccal swabs were excluded as the source of the previously We are requesting that our suspect’s DNA reported male DNA profile. In other words, all profile be searched against your DNA of the migrant workers who had provided DNA database as this would greatly assist our samples to that point could not have been the investigation. source of the DNA found at the crime scene. On November 11, 2013, FIS Constable At the case management meeting, Detective Bates collected a DNA sample from the victim’s Constable Nolan was assigned to obtain a list ex-boyfriend. Bates submitted it to the CFS on of all migrant workers in the Municipality of November 13. Bayham, Malahide Township, which is just west of Bayham, and in the west end of Norfolk County, November 13, 2013 which is just to the east of Bayham. He was also Detective Staff Sergeant Raffay, Detective assigned to determine how many workers went Sergeant Johnstone, Detective Constables AWOL during the season, reconsider the workers Caslick, Chandelier and Nolan and FIS Constable at Crevits Farm who had returned to their home Bates met for a case management meeting. They country, and go back to canvass the farms to discussed the CFS findings. During the meeting, determine which migrant workers were at the they contacted the CFS to learn that additional Wilk’s House party on October 19. tests were available which could provide an analysis of ancestral DNA markers for racial November 14, 2013 origin, but that such tests were only conducted by Detective Constables Nolan and Chandelier private companies. The officers asked whether attended Crevits Farm. They were advised that Jamaica had a national DNA data bank. In a the farm employed 14 workers that year – all follow-up call, the CFS confirmed that it did. The Jamaicans. The workers frequently travelled the CFS assisted with preparing a request to Interpol. road where the victim lived to get to the fields, but It stated: were usually driven by truck. Most workers did not leave the property except to buy groceries in town On October 19, 2013, an unknown black on Friday nights. On the evening of October 19, male with a Caribbean accent attended a the workers and the farmer’s family had dinner residence in the Municipality of Bayham, and a harvest party. The farmer took photographs Ontario, Canada. The male suspect accosted during both events. The officers viewed the the female at knifepoint, forced her inside photographs. All but two of the workers were the residence where he sexually assaulted present throughout the dinner and party, which her. The victim has identified the suspect as extended past 10 p.m. The two exceptions were 39 Casting the Net 18 A Review of Ontario Provincial Police Practices for DNA Canvasses
picked up by friends around 8 p.m. The farmer’s At about 1 p.m. Detective Constables Nolan family went to their own house at 10 p.m. After and Chandelier attended Wilk’s House to speak that, some of the workers went to the party at with Cooper. Nolan told him that he had been Wilk’s House, across the road from Crevits Farm. missed during the canvassing. They wanted The two workers who left with friends returned to speak with him privately. Cooper sat in the to Crevits Farm on October 22. All the workers back of the unmarked police cruiser. Nolan returned to Jamaica that day. asked Cooper if he would be willing to provide That same day, Martin’s Farm provided the a consent DNA sample. Cooper advised that he OPP with an additional list of its employees – a had provided a sample at Rosenberger House, master payroll list. Detective Constable Nolan but had not filled out the interview questionnaire. determined that 54 workers on that list had not yet Nolan conceded that the paperwork may have been canvassed. been misplaced, so Chandelier began to go through the questionnaire with Cooper. When November 15, 2013 asked if he had any suspicions regarding the Detective Constables Nolan and Chandelier attack on the victim, Cooper stated that he returned to Martin’s Farm and spoke to the overheard a conversation between some workers supervisor, John Banman, and another employee, at Wilk’s House. He claimed that a male who had Johan Knelsen. The 54 names were cross- since left Canada was talking about a “white lady” referenced with the names of workers who were to someone and that the conversation ended transferred from two farms in neighbouring when Cooper approached. Norfolk County. Fifty-two of the workers who had After the questionnaire was completed, Nolan been missed were from those farms. Knelsen read the Consent to Provide Biological Samples advised that he drove them in every day and form to Cooper and asked if he would provide a returned them home at the end of every day. sample. Cooper said that the last time he gave a They did not attend the party at Wilk’s House on DNA sample in Trinidad, his mouth swelled. He October 19. In light of that evidence, the officers reiterated that he had given a DNA sample when did not canvass these workers. The remaining canvassed at Rosenberger House, but that he did two names were Henry Cooper (who turned out not do the paperwork beforehand. He was told to be the perpetrator) and J.R. J.R. had returned that no samples would have been taken without home the previous Wednesday.5 Knelsen was not the required consent forms. sure, at that time, whether Cooper had already Detective Constable Nolan telephoned FIS left Canada. Constable Bates, who confirmed that Cooper had not provided a DNA sample. Chandelier asked November 17, 2013 Cooper why he had not participated when the Detective Constable Nolan contacted John police attended Rosenberger House. He claimed Banman to find out whether Henry Cooper was he was sick upstairs. Nolan asked him again if he still in Canada, and learned that Cooper was still wanted to provide a sample. Cooper stated that at Wilk’s House, but was scheduled to leave the he was aware that other workers had not provided following week. samples. The officers confirmed that this was
5 According to FIS Constable Bates’ notes and other records disclosed to the OIPRD, J.R. had, in fact, given a DNA sample on October 24, 2013. The OIPRD was unable to locate J.R.’s questionnaire or DNA consent form in the records provided. 40 OIPRD Office of the Independent Police Review Director 19
true and that the exercise was totally voluntary. DNA raised questions about his involvement Cooper then said, “No.” in the matter. Martin stated that Cooper said Chandelier noted that Cooper was a black his reason for not providing DNA was that his male, 5'9'' to 5'10'', with a thick accent, a thin, parents were recently deceased. (Martin knew but athletic build, short black hair and brown they were, in fact, alive.) Cooper said he would eyes, with a growth of beard and a moustache. give DNA when he was back in Trinidad. Martin Chandelier asked Cooper about his facial hair. He told him that he would have to do it in Canada. said that he shaved it off periodically. He claimed Cooper then told Martin that he would do it next that he last shaved three months ago. He then left year. Martin told him that it would have to be now the cruiser. and that if he refused to take the test, he would After this encounter, Nolan sent an email to not be invited back the following year. Martin Detective Staff Sergeant Raffay outlining his asked Cooper when he started to grow a beard. concerns about Cooper and suggesting that they Cooper responded that he had done so when it attempt to obtain Cooper’s discarded DNA. This was getting cold and that he did not have one would involve placing Cooper under surveillance on the night of the party. Martin gave Cooper to see if he discarded something that might time to think about providing DNA. Cooper later contain his DNA. Raffay advised him to complete confirmed his earlier decision not to provide DNA. a “surveillance package” for discarded DNA. Martin was interviewed twice by the OIPRD. He advised the OIPRD that he learned that November 18, 2013 Cooper had not provided a sample of his DNA On November 18, 2013, Detective Staff Sergeant from the police. No officer confirmed that he had Raffay contacted the CFS to explore the conveyed this information to Martin. Detective possibility of using DNA provided by Cooper’s Constable Nolan said this to the OIPRD: brother, another migrant worker, to do a familial comparison. Subsequently, Raffay obtained Leighton Martin gave me a phone call…. advice from a local Crown Attorney that the It was Friday the 22nd of November, 2013. I brother’s sample could not be used for anything received a phone call from Mr. Leighton [sic] other than to determine his own involvement or [at] 15:29 hours. So it was 3:29 p.m. and he lack thereof in the crime. informed me of his phone conversation that he had with Mr. Cooper and it had all to do November 20, 2013 with him not providing DNA and on and on and Commencing on November 20, 2013, Detective how he pressured him into trying to get this Staff Sergeant Raffay assigned officers to conduct DNA before he went back home and at that surveillance of Henry Cooper. point I told him to write that letter… To capture everything that he had said to him in that November 22, 2013 phone conversation. And then later on I went At 3:29 p.m. Detective Constable Nolan received and picked that letter up. a telephone call from Mr. Martin, the owner of Martin’s Farm. Martin described a conversation I mean we have been doing this process since he had with Henry Cooper. He had explained to October 23, 22, somewhere around there. So Cooper that not cooperating and not providing he knew and I don’t know how or whether 41 Casting the Net 20 A Review of Ontario Provincial Police Practices for DNA Canvasses
he got that from police or whether he got record is good; we’ll put you on the long term that from other workers, I don’t know. next year if you agree to take this test. This (Emphasis added) raised suspicion when he turned that down flat because long term is very special to them. Regardless of how Martin came into possession of this information, he was adamant in his Martin’s approach with Cooper stands in stark interviews with the OIPRD that he never received contrast with what the officers told the workers. any instructions from the police as to what he All of the officers interviewed by the OIPRD should say to Cooper. indicated that they unequivocally conveyed to Martin’s initial written statement to the OPP the workers that consent was voluntary and their illuminated his approach, as employer, to those decision whether to provide DNA would not affect workers who refused to provide a DNA sample. their employment or have adverse repercussions He said this: because it was confidential. For example, Detective Constable Chandelier told the OIPRD: When I was informed that three of our offshore workers had refused to take a DNA test We made it very clear… that this is voluntary regarding the tragic occurrence of a man (who and that we were not going to even tell their fits the physical description of a number of our employers whether they gave DNA or not, workers) [who] violated a woman in her home and it would have no bearing on them coming … I made the decision that none of these back. We did have some concerns raised, but men would be invited back to work for our we would say this is a voluntary thing. It’s got company in the future unless they consented nothing to do with your employment. We won’t to take a DNA test as had been asked by the be telling people that you gave or didn’t give a investigating police force. sample and it’s not going to affect your status here. I don’t recall anyone giving names of He expanded on his approach when interviewed people that did not provide. There might have by the OIPRD: been some discussion that some people did refuse which they did, but I don’t believe that Most of the workers had already gone home, they were ever identified. but we had jobs to finish up, we gave Henry [Cooper] the opportunity to stay on. At this Detective Constable Wouters said this: stage I found out that he, along with one other, who had gone back at that point, refused to We explained to them that they are under no take the test. The police had informed us of obligation to provide this and this will not affect this at this stage. I appealed to him, I said this their employment because that was already places a question on your name; it places a told to us by Martin’s Farm for sure – John question on the program. You know we can’t Banman, in conversation with Mr. Martin. force you to take the test. It is voluntary, but That was discussed between them because it will certainly help to clear your name. I’ll I’m sure some of their employees went to give you this incentive: you take this test and them and said well, if we don’t cooperate even though you’re not quite in line, your work with the police, what’s going to happen to 42 OIPRD Office of the Independent Police Review Director 21
us? And we wanted it to be known that this did it and he would be held in custody. Nolan was completely voluntary. And Mr. Martin thanked the workers for their cooperation and or Mr. Banman said this will not affect their took questions. One worker asked if police were employment. And it can’t. absolutely sure Cooper did it since he didn’t give DNA. Nolan replied that “we can put Cooper in The recorded interviews with migrant workers the house.” confirmed that this was the type of information communicated by police to the workers. I will December 13, 2013 discuss the implications of the difference between Officers executed a DNA warrant on Cooper. Mr. Martin’s expressed approach and what the He exercised his right to counsel before a DNA police told workers in chapter five. The presence sample was obtained through a finger prick. That and involvement of management when workers DNA later proved to match the DNA found at Jane were directed to police cars for questioning and to Doe’s residence. As previously indicated, Cooper the forensic van, if they consented to provide DNA ultimately entered a guilty plea to three charges samples, also made it difficult, if not impossible, and was sentenced to seven years in prison. for the workers to refuse to provide DNA samples without management’s knowledge. On November 22, 2013, between 6:40 and 7:12 p.m., surveillance officers seized a cigarette butt, pop can, pizza slice tray and napkin that were discarded by Cooper. Those items were sealed and delivered to the CFS for testing.
November 28, 2013 The CFS advised the OPP that the discarded DNA gathered during Cooper’s surveillance was a “hit”; that is, Cooper could not be excluded as the source of the male DNA profile taken from the victim and the crime scene. The probability that a randomly selected individual unrelated to Cooper would coincidentally share the same DNA profile was estimated to be 1 in 5.6 quadrillion.
November 30, 2013 Cooper was arrested and detained in custody.
December 1, 2013 Detective Constable Nolan attended Rosenberger House to speak to the remaining migrant workers. He advised them that Henry Cooper was arrested for the sexual assault, the police were sure he 43
CHAPTER THREE The Complaint and Stakeholders’ Submissions
THe COmPlAINT police had specific details about the suspect that should have narrowed the scope of the In December 2013, the OIPRD received a investigation (i.e., height, age and physical complaint from Justicia for Migrant Workers appearance). All black and brown migrant making a number of allegations about the workers were approached during the DNA investigation conducted by the OPP in this case, “sweep” and workers who did not fit the including the following: description of the suspect in any way apart from the colour of their skin were included 1. That Elgin County OPP conducted the DNA in the “sweep” and asked to provide a DNA “sweep” in a manner that racially profiled the sample affected migrant workers 4. That the OPP responsible for the investigation 2. That the Elgin County OPP officers were considered all black and brown males within its motivated in whole or in part by racial jurisdiction to be suspects in the sexual assault prejudice toward the migrant workers because 5. That as a result of racial profiling, migrant of the colour of their skin workers felt they had to comply with police 3. That the Elgin County OPP engaged in racial requests or they would appear guilty; they also profiling by targeting workers solely based on had doubts about whether their DNA would be the colour of their skin, despite the fact that destroyed 44 OIPRD Office of the Independent Police Review Director 23
6. That by engaging in racial profiling and J4MW described the “structural vulnerability” discrimination against the migrant workers, of migrant workers to racism, racial profiling the Elgin County OPP denied these workers and racialized policing in Canada. It contended their right to be equal under the law, contrary that “an unhealthy and problematic, informal to s. 15 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and relationship exists between the OPP and local Freedoms (the Charter) police forces and employers with respect to 7. That by detaining migrant workers in a police dealings with migrant workers” that extends cruiser prior to seeking their consent to DNA beyond this investigation. It was also concerned testing, did arbitrarily detain them, contrary to with the cooperation between the OPP and s. 9 of the Charter Canada Border Services Agency (CBSA) and how this could perpetuate the vulnerability of migrant Some or all of these concerns were echoed and workers. expanded upon by a number of other stakeholders J4MW recommended that first, the OIPRD who made submissions to the OIPRD. These push Ontario police services to adopt a “Don’t included the African Canadian Legal Clinic, the Ask, Don’t Tell” policy regarding immigration Canadian Civil Liberties Association, the Law status. It maintained that police services should Union of Ontario, Migrant Workers Alliance for refrain from questioning people regarding their Change, No One is Illegal, the Ontario Human immigration status and also discontinue all Rights Commission, Justicia for Migrant Workers support of CBSA investigations into migrant and the Toronto Police Accountability Coalition. workers in the province. Second, it asked that Letters in support of the complaint were also the OIPRD collect, compile and release all data filed by the Chinese Canadian National Council on migrant workers who have come into contact (Toronto Chapter), the Halifax Friends Meeting with police forces and the criminal justice system – Quakers, and the Metro Toronto Chinese and and push police forces to collect and disclose Southeast Asian Legal Clinic. such data. Third, it urged the OIPRD to “force the police in Ontario to adopt and adhere to explicit policies on dealing with migrant workers during INITIAl SuBmISSIONS complaints and criminal investigations. These policies must ensure the Charter rights of migrant A brief summary of stakeholders’ submissions workers are protected.” received after the announcement of this systemic review follows. The Ontario Human Rights Commission (OHRC) is a provincial statutory agency Justicia for Migrant Workers (J4MW) describes responsible for promoting and advancing human itself as a grassroots advocacy group based in rights, and preventing discrimination in Ontario. Toronto, Vancouver and Mexico City. It works Its submission focused on the Ontario Human with migrant workers to advocate for changes to Rights Code. The Code prohibits discrimination improve their living and working conditions while based on personal characteristics (grounds) they are employed in Canada. It is comprised including “citizenship, race, place of origin, ethnic of migrant workers, academic scholars, and origin, colour, ancestry, disability, age, creed, sex, community and labour activists. family status, marital status, sexual orientation, 45 Casting the Net 24 A Review of Ontario Provincial Police Practices for DNA Canvasses
gender identity and gender expression.” The 2. Training: The OHRC recommended training Code protects against both direct discrimination on racial profiling for new recruits, current and adverse effect discrimination (whereby officers, investigators and supervisors. The policies and rules appear to be neutral but have training would address issues such as the an adverse effect on some people based upon importance of good community relations, the one of the Code grounds). nature of racism and its impact on Black and The OHRC’s submissions defined racial Aboriginal communities and discuss how profiling as “any action undertaken for reasons of racial profiling violates the Code, Charter, safety, security or public protection that relies on Police Services Act, and police policies and stereotypes about race, colour, ethnicity, ancestry, procedures. religion or place of origin – rather than on 3. Data Collection: The OHRC recommended reasonable suspicion – to single out an individual that the OPP collect race-based data on for greater scrutiny or different treatment.” The police stops, searches and DNA sampling OHRC submitted that racial profiling is a systemic practices to identify, monitor, evaluate and problem, which is not limited to initial interactions reduce racial profiling. This data collection between police and individuals, but is a concern should be supplemented by qualitative throughout an investigation. The OHRC stated research methods, such as focus groups. that racial profiling has harmful individual and Racialized groups and Aboriginal Peoples societal effects, listing various characteristics of should be consulted about the purpose, use, racial profiling in policing. It shared the concerns benefits and methods of collecting data. This about the OPP DNA canvassing identified by data should be analyzed and interpreted and J4MW, and felt that the OPP collected DNA results should be made public. samples from the migrant workers in a manner 4. Recruiting, selecting, promoting and retaining consistent with racial profiling. a diverse workforce: The OPP should seek The OHRC made the following to include racialized groups, Aboriginal recommendations: communities and other under-represented groups to reflect the population it serves. 1. Developing policies and procedures: The 5. The Ontario Ministry of Community Safety OPP should develop and implement distinct and Correctional Services (MCSCS) should policies and procedures that clearly prohibit provide direction to the OPP on all the racial profiling. It suggested key elements in recommendations outlined above as they are the policies such as a clear definition of racism responsible for the Policing Standards Manual, and racial profiling and examples of how racial which sets out standards for Ontario police profiling manifests in police activities like services and offers recommendations for local pedestrian and traffic stops, consent searches, policies, procedures and programs. investigative detentions, suspect selection and DNA sampling. The policies should also The Canadian Civil Liberties Association be developed in consultation with racialized (CCLA) is a national, non-partisan, non- groups and Aboriginal Peoples. governmental and non-profit organization that has been at the forefront of protecting fundamental freedoms and democratic life in Canada since 1964. 46 OIPRD Office of the Independent Police Review Director 25
The CCLA submitted that the practice of The CCLA observed that the criteria for “voluntary” DNA canvasses that target a large assessing the voluntariness of consent has number of people is “inherently coercive,” been well laid out by the Court of Appeal for particularly in the context of migrant workers who Ontario and that the OPP must abide by existing are detained and “asked” to provide samples jurisprudence. In its view, it is inherently coercive at their workplace. Where consent is not truly to “ask” innocent people to hand their DNA to the voluntary, warrantless DNA collection tactics will state, particularly when the police reinforce the violate Charter rights. The CCLA believed, based “moral obligation” to do so. Absent a safeguard on the complaint and its understanding of OPP such as judicial authorization, the CCLA was policies, that individuals’ section 8 Charter rights concerned about the validity of consent in the were violated in this instance. Further, it said that context of DNA canvassing. This particular the targeting of a vulnerable, marginalized group incident also involved asking for consent at the in a manner that violates their s. 8 Charter rights migrant workers’ place of employment and thereby doubly victimizes the targeted individuals and brought another element of coercion into play. represents a particularly serious infringement It observed that while voluntary DNA samples of privacy rights and the right to be free from are legislatively mandated in the Criminal Code discrimination. to be destroyed if they do not match crime scene The CCLA described the unique vulnerability DNA, no such protection exists for discarded of migrant workers both as agricultural workers samples. who are heavily dependent upon their employers The CCLA’s recommendations included the and as temporary foreign workers who labour following: under poor work conditions and are vulnerable to abuse. The CCLA highlighted the problems 1. Best practices would require that, barring migrant workers may have in advocating for exigent circumstances, judicial authorization be themselves and asserting their rights, including obtained prior to engaging in DNA canvassing. fear of reprisals and deportation, language 2. At a minimum, written guidelines should exist barriers, lack of knowledge of their rights for DNA canvassing. These should be publicly and misleading information provided by their accessible. employers. Their work permits allow them to 3. Police should make no statements to an only work for one employer and often they are individual asked to provide a DNA sample that dependent upon their employer for housing. he or she has a legal or moral obligation to The CCLA submitted that the Elgin County OPP consent. engaged in racial profiling when they singled out a 4. Requests for DNA should be in as private a group based on their race and immigration status to setting as possible. the exclusion of factors that were actually relevant, 5. Given the vulnerability of migrant workers, such as matching the suspect description. police should consult with them and their The CCLA discussed the legal framework advocates regarding best practices to for DNA collection and retention policies. Since investigate members of their group. DNA contains some of the most personal and 6. With particularly vulnerable groups, police private information about an individual, there must should be assisting with access to free and be sufficient oversight, control and scrutiny of private legal advice to ensure they understand procedures for collecting samples. their rights. 47 Casting the Net 26 A Review of Ontario Provincial Police Practices for DNA Canvasses
7. The “Local Discard Index” for DNA should be but recognize other factors at play such as the destroyed. immigration status of the migrant workers. It said 8. DNA canvassing should never be done that the relationship between non-status/migrant in a manner that constitutes illegal and workers and police is characterized by mistrust unconstitutional discrimination under the and a fear that any contact with state authorities Charter and the Ontario Human Rights Code. will lead to detention and deportation. Additionally, police cooperation with the CBSA and immigration The Toronto Police Accountability Coalition enforcement is another complication that adds (TPAC) indicated that it has worked over the last to the fear and mistrust non-status and migrant 14 years to encourage debate about police policy workers may have for the police. issues and to make the police more accountable NOII-TO suggested that there be a to the public. moratorium on all “voluntary” DNA sampling in The TPAC strongly supported J4MW’s Ontario, failing which, the OIPRD should reflect submissions. It felt that my terms of reference that consent needs to be unequivocal, active, do not go far enough and need to address the informed and free. This requires the police to subject of the complaint, that is, “the unequal and advise prior to asking for identification that the discriminatory policing of migrant farmworkers.” individual does not need to undergo sampling, is Some of its recommendations raise important free to leave and does not need to answer any issues, albeit well outside the scope of my current questions. mandate: for example, discrimination faced by It also advocated that a “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” women and LGBTQ migrant workers in their policy should be adopted by all police services in interactions with the OPP. Ontario regarding immigration status. This would reduce confusion and ensure consent is full, free No One is Illegal Toronto (NOII-TO) is a and informed. network of migrant-led grassroots organizations spanning from Halifax to Vancouver (Coast Salish The Migrant Workers Alliance for Change Territories) which is loosely affiliated with the (MWAC) described itself as Canada’s largest global “No Person Is Illegal” movement. coalition of migrant worker groups and It submitted that any policy which allows for community, labour, legal and faith-based allied “voluntary” DNA sampling will disproportionately organizations. affect non-status and migrant worker people, It said that I must consider the extreme who are overrepresented in racially profiled vulnerability of workers that leaves them open communities and who are at a particular to employer abuse, injury, detentions and disadvantage to assert their legal right to deportations. It submitted that I must determine decline sampling. It proposed that any OIPRD what steps would make the giving of consent by recommendation that allows for continued migrant workers to the collection of their DNA truly “voluntary” DNA sampling must also provide voluntary. It supported J4MW’s recommendations. safeguards which account for the unique situation of non-status and migrant worker communities. The African Canadian Legal Clinic (ACLC) is It cautioned me not to focus solely on the a not-for-profit organization and specialty clinic racial dimensions in the OPP DNA canvassing, funded by Legal Aid Ontario that provides, among 48 OIPRD Office of the Independent Police Review Director 27
other things, advice and representation to African publicly accessible data disaggregated by race for Canadians on legal matters involving issues of all incidents involving the “voluntary” collection of systemic and institutional anti-Black racism and DNA samples for a period of five years. racial discrimination. The ACLC defined the term “African Canadian” as including, “any person of The Law Union of Ontario was founded in 1974 African ancestry, descent or heritage, who self- as a coalition of over 200 progressive lawyers, identifies as such, including indigenous Black law students and legal workers. The Law Union Canadians, people whose ancestry is indigenous provides for an alternative bar in Ontario which to the African continent, African Caribbean and seeks to counter the traditional protections Afro-Latin American peoples, and all individuals afforded by the legal system to social, political of the African Diaspora who are in Canada and and economic privilege. their dependents, regardless of their immigration The Law Union’s Stop Racial Profiling status.” Committee (LUO-SRP) saw many parallels ACLC submitted that the OPP engaged in between the practice of police carding and the racial profiling. It observed, among other things, OPP’s DNA sweep, in that both seem to be that racial profiling is contrary to the Police a manifestation of “intelligence-led” policing Services Act and amounts to “Discreditable trumping the human rights, civil liberties, and Conduct.” It is also contrary to OPP Operational dignity of members of the community. The Policy regarding diversity and bias-free policing. Committee advocated for rights-first, dignity- It focused on the exceptional vulnerability of centred policing. migrant workers who have difficulty vindicating It also contended that taking DNA samples their rights. It said there is “mounting evidence that did not match the physical description of the that African Canadians face racial discrimination suspect permitted the logical inference that it was in the criminal justice system and are subject done “in order to build a DNA bank of Black and to higher levels of scrutiny.” It submitted that Brown migrant workers that could help in solving the perpetrators of racial profiling and their past and future crimes.” It also contended that the supervisors must be held accountable in sampling must have been based in part on racial accordance with section 80 of the PSA. profiling and “perhaps on the false stereotype that The ACLC recommended that the OPP Black and Brown men have a greater propensity immediately and finally destroy all DNA collected to commit crime.” in the sweep and records except for the It urged me to investigate and issue a charged person, develop an Anti-Racial Profiling report in order to understand the purpose of the Operational Policy, retain a human rights expert DNA sweep of persons that did not match the to develop and provide training to all service description of the suspect other than skin colour. members on the Anti-Racial Profiling Operational It submitted that the OIPRD “must identify Policy, retain an anti-racism expert to review exactly what kind of personal information was existing operational policies and procedures with stored, how it was stored, whether any of respect to their impact on racialized groups, take that data was shared with government or law into account complaints against police officers enforcement entities outside of the OPP and relating to racial profiling and discrimination in whether any of that data still exists in the OPP’s review and promotion assessments and collect records or in any third party’s records. Steps 49 Casting the Net 28 A Review of Ontario Provincial Police Practices for DNA Canvasses
must then be taken to completely purge all of The Office of the Information and Privacy these records, with the exception of the personal Commissioner of Ontario also provided helpful information of the individual who was actually suggestions. We also obtained additional written arrested for the assault.” feedback from roundtable participants. A full list of those who participated in the roundtable and/or The Chinese Canadian National Council made submissions is enclosed as Appendix C to (Toronto Chapter) is a Chinese-Canadian this Report. community-based advocacy group in Toronto. It In chapter six, I recommend that police expressed similar concerns to those identified in services adopt a Model Policy on DNA other stakeholders’ submissions, in particular the Canvassing that draws upon the earlier Draft “voluntary” nature of the DNA sampling. Policy with modifications informed by the stakeholder submissions. In my view, the Model The Halifax Friends Meeting – Quakers Policy is much improved as a result of their offered support to the complaint launched by input. Rather than summarize the stakeholders’ J4MW and urged the OIPRD to undertake a submissions on the Draft Policy here, I do so in review of the incident. my commentary to the recommendations, where those submissions can be better understood.
THe ROuNDTABle AND SuBmISSIONS ON A DRAFT POlICy FINAl OBSeRvATIONS ON STAkeHOlDeRS’ SuBmISSIONS In December 2015, the OIPRD invited a number of the above stakeholders, together with the I am grateful to all of those who participated Ontario Provincial Police, the Toronto Police in the process. To state the obvious, I was Service, the Criminal Lawyers’ Association unable to agree with everything that was said and the Ministry of the Attorney General, to a to me. Equally significant, I was of the view that roundtable discussion that focused on several a number of submissions urged me to make recommendations which might flow from our recommendations that fell outside my terms of systemic review: most particularly, that the OPP reference or would have required me to address and similarly situated police services adopt a matters that are not the subject of the OIPRD’s policy on how and when DNA canvassing should systemic review. That being said, quite a few of take place. A Discussion Paper, which included the submissions shaped, in a significant way, the a Draft Policy for consideration, was circulated in contents of this Report. advance of the roundtable. It is Appendix B to this The Ontario Provincial Police, in one of its Report. I personally attended the roundtable, as submissions, indicated that it preferred to know did my counsel and staff who were engaged in what the “findings” of my systemic review were, the systemic review. before commenting on the Draft Policy that I followed the roundtable with an invitation was discussed at the roundtable. I understand to police services in Ontario, including two First what prompted this submission, since several Nations police services, to comment on the Draft stakeholders at the roundtable assumed that Policy that had been circulated at the roundtable. the OPP had engaged in racial discrimination 50 OIPRD Office of the Independent Police Review Director 29
and/or racial profiling and predicated some of their comments on that assumption. The OPP would have preferred that I address whether that assumption was correct before it was called upon to provide a policy response – most particularly, to the Draft Policy on DNA canvassing. Of course, many public inquiries and systemic reviews do not divide their processes into two parts in this way. It would have been inefficient and, in my view, counterproductive, to release separate reports on findings and policy recommendations. This is particularly so for a systemic review where the focus is on policy recommendations. It is doubly so when my recommendations are designed, in part, not only to prevent discriminatory practices or racial profiling, but also to avoid even the perception of discrimination or racial profiling. In a systemic review, only those findings of fact that provide context to the recommendations need be made. As well, the goal of such a review is not to make findings of misconduct, but to evaluate, through a systemic lens, whether things could have been done differently, and make recommendations for improvement. Despite the OPP’s reservations, its representatives nonetheless provided valuable input at the roundtable and afterwards, as did other police services that commented on the Draft Policy. 51
CHAPTER FOUR Statutory and Historical Background to DNA Canvassing
An understanding of the historical use or misuse With the advent of modern technology, DNA of DNA canvasses or sweeps and the scientific can be extracted from a small biological sample, and legal framework within which they take place such as a drop of blood or a swab of the inner is essential. This understanding must extend cheek for buccal epithelial cells. The resulting to the use, retention and destruction of DNA sample can be analyzed, creating a DNA profile samples obtained through DNA canvassing. that may be used to identify a particular individual. A DNA profile, drawn from a known biological sample, can be compared to an unknown DNA DNA TeSTINg profile drawn from a different biological sample. If the profiles “match,” the two samples come from Deoxyribonucleic acid – DNA – is a molecule the same person. If the profiles do not “match,” that contains a unique genetic code. It is found in the samples come from different people.6 I use virtually every tissue in the human body. The DNA the term “match” advisedly since it is more in blood is the same as the DNA in skin cells, accurate to say that the same source cannot saliva, and the roots of hair. DNA is a powerful be excluded for the two samples, although the tool for identifying individuals. With the exception odds of coincidence are sometimes expressed in of identical twins, each person’s DNA is unique. astronomical terms, such as 1 in 5.4 quadrillion.
6 http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/nddb-bndg/index-accueil-eng.htm 52 OIPRD Office of the Independent Police Review Director 31
DNA evidence has revolutionized the 1. The police can seek judicial authorization, way many crimes are investigated and pursuant to s. 487.05(1) of the Criminal prosecuted. The forensic use of DNA has not Code of Canada. If the application for judicial only led to the successful identification and authorization is successful, a DNA warrant prosecution of many dangerous criminals, it has is issued. Given the intrusion on personal served to exonerate people who were suspected privacy associated with the seizure of bodily of crimes or wrongly convicted. The importance of samples to obtain a DNA profile, the Criminal this forensic development to the administration of Code sets out very clear preconditions for criminal justice cannot be overstated. At the same the issuance of a DNA warrant. The judge time, the profound implications on the privacy and or justice of the peace must be satisfied, security interests of an affected individual when based on evidence under oath, that there are government takes and uses DNA samples cannot reasonable grounds to believe that: be ignored. As the Supreme Court of Canada a. A designated offence under the Criminal has observed, a proper balance between these Code has been committed competing interests must be achieved within our b. A bodily substance has been found or constitutional framework.7 obtained at the place where the offence was committed, on or within the body of the victim or on anything worn or carried COlleCTINg DNA by the victim at the material time or on or within the body of any person or thing or at Collecting evidence that might yield a any place associated with the commission perpetrator’s DNA profile is obviously of of the offence importance in the investigation of serious crimes, c. A person was a party to the offence particularly where the perpetrator’s identity is d. A forensic DNA analysis of a bodily otherwise unknown or in doubt. If a DNA profile substance from the person will provide is generated from the crime scene evidence, the evidence about whether the bodily profile may be loaded into the National DNA Data substance referred to in (b) was from Bank or other DNA data banks for comparison that person purposes. If that profile is not found within the National DNA Data Bank, a police investigation 2. If the police cannot meet the preconditions may focus on obtaining DNA from persons of set out in s. 487.05(1), they can request that interest or suspects for comparison purposes. an individual voluntarily provide them with a Where a “match” is obtained, it might constitute bodily sample to enable forensic DNA analysis significant, sometimes overwhelming, evidence of to be done. However, due again to the guilt. The comparison may also eliminate persons intrusion on personal privacy associated with of interest from suspicion and correspondingly the taking of a bodily sample, the police must narrow the pool of potential suspects. ensure that the sample is indeed provided Broadly speaking, there are three relevant voluntarily and not as a result of pressure or ways that the police can legally attempt to obtain coercion. Put another way, a bodily sample DNA from an individual for comparison purposes: may be lawfully taken by police when it is
7 R. v. Rodgers, [2006] 1 S.C.R. 554, 2006 SCC 15 at para. 4. 53 Casting the Net 32 A Review of Ontario Provincial Police Practices for DNA Canvasses
done pursuant to an informed and voluntary THe uSe OF DNA CANvASSeS AS consent. Where a group of individuals is asked AN INveSTIgATIve TeCHNIque to provide bodily samples for forensic DNA analysis in circumstances where the police Police officers describe canvassing for voluntary do not have reasonable grounds to believe DNA as an “investigative technique” that is that any particular individual within the group available to them. This technique has several committed the offence being investigated, purposes. First, the police seek to identify, the preconditions set out in s. 487.05(1) through forensic DNA analysis of multiple cannot be fulfilled. individuals, which one of them is the perpetrator. Hence, the lawfulness of the police Failing that, the police seek to at least eliminate conduct is dependent on whether informed individuals from suspicion and thereby narrow the and voluntary consent has been obtained. The pool of potential suspects. investigative technique of seeking the consent Second, the police draw potential significance of multiple individuals because one of them from an individual’s refusal to consent to provide may be the perpetrator is generally referred a DNA sample. Although an individual is, of to as a DNA canvass in Canada and a DNA course, legally entitled to refuse to consent, it may sweep in the United States. cause the police to suspect that the individual may be connected to the crime.10 This may result 3. Absent judicial authorization or consent, the in police focusing on that individual. Indeed, police may seek to extract a person’s DNA that was precisely what occurred here. Henry profile from an item he or she has discarded. Cooper’s refusal, coupled with demonstrable lies This is also referred to as “cast-off” DNA. associated with his refusal, prompted the police to As occurred here, the police may place a obtain his cast-off DNA, leading to his arrest and person of interest under surveillance, looking conviction. for an opportunity to seize discarded items such as cigarette butts, coffee cups, tissues, gum or uneaten food that can be tested for DNA CANvASSeS AND DNA. Jurisprudence generally supports the vOluNTARINeSS lawfulness of police obtaining discarded DNA without judicial authorization or consent based As I observed earlier, when the police request that on the principle of abandonment.8 Simply put, multiple individuals provide bodily samples, they an individual’s rights in this area, articulated must ensure that the consent is both informed in s. 8 of the Charter, are tied to his or her and voluntary. reasonable expectation of privacy. Generally, The jurisprudence recognizes an inherent it is said that an individual no longer has a power imbalance between the police and a reasonable expectation of privacy in items he civilian. The dynamics that may exist when a or she has discarded.9 police officer “requests” the assistance of any individual cannot be ignored. Simply put, one
8 Burchill, J., “Mr. Stillman, DNA and Discarded Evidence in Criminal Cases,” (2008) 32 Man. L.J. 5 – 33. 9 See for example: R. v. F. (D.M.), 139 C.C.C. (3d) 144; R. v. Nguyen, 57 O.R. (3d) 589, (ONCA); R. v. Love, [1994] A.J. No. 847 (QB); R. v. Marini, [2005] O.J. No. 6197 at para. 34. 10 R. v. Osmond, 2009 BCSC 550 at para. 51. 54 OIPRD Office of the Independent Police Review Director 33
cannot equate a request made by a police officer CONCeRNS ABOuT DNA with a request by one private individual to another. CANvASSeS The very nature of the policing function and the circumstances which often bring the police in The use of DNA canvasses as an investigative contact with individuals introduce an element of technique has attracted criticism, most notably authority, if not compulsion, to a request made by in the United States. Critics cite the inherent a police officer. This is particularly true where the power imbalance described above, coupled request is made of someone who may be a target with the heightened police scrutiny associated of an ongoing criminal investigation.11 with a refusal to cooperate, to challenge DNA The power imbalance may be heightened canvasses as presumptively coercive. Second, somewhat where the private individual is they raise concerns about the use and misuse particularly vulnerable for any number of reasons. of DNA samples provided by individuals cleared For example, migrant workers, whose standing through forensic DNA analysis. Third, they to remain in Canada is both temporary and question whether DNA canvassing represents a precarious, may fear that a failure to cooperate cost-efficient use of resources to solve crimes. At with the police will have adverse employment or least one American study has concluded that DNA immigration consequences. They may also lack “sweeps” (as they are described in the United an understanding of the limited use that can be States) are generally ineffective in identifying made of their bodily samples or fear that their the perpetrator. There are numerous instances samples will be misused by authorities. These cited where DNA canvassing has produced no fears may be especially prominent for racialized real success, while using up significant police workers who have either experienced or been told resources to collect group samples and incurring about discriminatory practices or racial profiling by substantial financial costs for laboratories the police or other government players.12 to analyze multiple samples.13 Finally, and None of this means that vulnerable individuals perhaps most significantly in the context of this are incapable of providing informed and voluntary review, questions have been raised when this consent to providing bodily samples. What it investigative technique focuses on a racialized does mean is that the police must be particularly community. It is argued that the authorities sensitive to the power imbalance that may exist, engage in racial profiling by stereotyping people where such vulnerabilities are present, and take of colour and, as a consequence, aggravate long- these vulnerabilities into consideration in how standing tensions that community policing and they seek and obtain consent. other efforts are designed to overcome.14 These criticisms have led to submissions, in Canada and in the United States, that DNA canvassing not be permitted without prior judicial authorization, or be substantially narrowed or modified.
11 R. v. Wills, 1992 CanLII 2780 (ON CA) at para. 45. 12 In a 2003 article, The DNA Dragnet: A Modern Day Salem Witch Hunt, 10 C.R. (6th) 16, Vincenzo Rondinelli discusses psychological and sociological factors associated with a DNA dragnet that may cast doubt as to how voluntary an individual’s consent actually is. 13 Walker, S., & Harrington, M., Police DNA “Sweeps”: A Proposed Model Policy on Police Requests for DNA Samples (July 2005), p. 5. 14 Ibid., p. 5. 55 Casting the Net 34 A Review of Ontario Provincial Police Practices for DNA Canvasses
THe HISTORy OF DNA CANvASSeS DNA CANvASSeS IN CANADA
The first known use of a DNA canvass took The first reported DNA canvassing in Canada place in 1987 in Leicester, England. The police took place in 1994 in Vermilion, Alberta, a town of approached Dr. Alec Jeffreys of the University 3,800 people. Police were investigating a series of Leicester to see if DNA analysis could be of sexual assaults that had taken place over a employed to identify suspects in the sexual three-year period. Bodily samples for forensic assault and murder of two young girls in the DNA analysis were collected from a number of area.15 The officers believed that the two crimes men in the community. were linked, so scientists using Dr. Jeffreys’ When the canvassing first began, one of the technique analyzed samples collected from the RCMP investigators commented that, “I’m sure deceased girls to generate DNA profiles (other if someone were not to give blood and that were than those of the deceased). The DNA profiles found out, he would be really, really unpopular.” were identical, confirming the officers’ belief that Eventually, the DNA canvassing was expanded the crimes were linked. Interestingly, an individual to a larger group. However, after 18 months and who had confessed to one of the murders was the testing of 240 samples, no match had been exonerated because his DNA profile did not found. Fearing that support in the community match the one obtained as a result of the DNA for the DNA canvassing was wavering, the analysis.16 RCMP organized a town hall meeting which was Police decided to use a DNA “sweep” or attended by 200 residents. At the meeting, two “dragnet” to request samples from 5,000 males men who spoke in opposition to the investigative in Leicester and the surrounding villages.17 The technique were heckled. The RCMP “warned analysis of these samples did not result in a that anyone who did not give a blood sample positive match. However, the case and the DNA on request would face an intrusive background sweep were a frequent topic of conversation check.”19 The DNA canvassing was ultimately in the community. As a result, an individual unsuccessful nonetheless. was overheard bragging about submitting his Another large-scale DNA canvass took place DNA sample on behalf of a friend. The police in Port Alberni, British Columbia in 1996. An were notified and the investigation led to the 11-year-old girl had been sexually assaulted identification of the individual who had used the and beaten to death. After an exhaustive braggart to disguise his own DNA profile. A true investigation that did not produce an arrest, the DNA sample from him produced a match, and led RCMP employed a DNA canvass. Four hundred to his confession to the crime.18 and eleven samples were obtained. Three years after the murder, a DNA match was made using a sample that had been provided by the perpetrator.20
15 http://www.policechiefmagazine.org/magazine/index.cfm?fuseaction=display_arch&article_id=1320&issue_id=112007 16 Ibid. 17 http://www.aboutforensics.co.uk/colin-pitchfork/ 18 Ibid. 19 Neil Gerlach, The Genetic Imaginary: DNA in the Canadian Justice System (Toronto: University of Toronto Press, 2004) at pgs. 184 – 185. 20 Ibid., at pg. 186. 56 OIPRD Office of the Independent Police Review Director 35
From 1998 to 2000, a DNA canvass involving The media reported that the RCMP told samples from 485 potential suspects was carried every taxi driver in the city that providing a DNA out during the investigation of a Sudbury murder. sample would eliminate them as a suspect As of the time of this Report, this crime remains or person of interest in the investigation. The unsolved.21 Over 1,200 suspects have been manager of one taxi company told the media eliminated since the investigation first began, that many of the drivers initially refused to submit primarily through DNA analysis.22 a sample, but eventually, all but two or three A DNA canvass was employed in the complied. Many drivers initially asked the RCMP investigation of the rape and murder of 10-year- to obtain a warrant, but provided the sample old Holly Jones in 2003 in Toronto. Samples were when investigators told them they would remain taken from over 300 individuals on the basis of a person of interest if they did not comply with geographic location. The police focused on and the request. The manager said, “It was worded ultimately apprehended a suspect because their in such a way that the drivers thought if they suspicions were raised as a result of his refusal to didn’t give their DNA, they believed they would participate in the process. be followed until they gave police what they In 2011, the OPP employed a DNA canvass of wanted.”24 So far, the DNA canvass has not individuals who were known to Sonia Varaschin, resulted in any charges. a murder victim in Orangeville. It is unknown how These are merely examples of DNA many individuals were approached for samples. canvasses done or reported on in Canada. The The murder remains unsolved. OIPRD was provided with a number of additional Another well-publicized DNA canvass took examples of DNA canvasses undertaken in place in Prince George, British Columbia. The Canada. Some resulted in arrests; some did not. RCMP was investigating the murders of women Statistics are not kept regarding the total number along the so-called “Highway of Tears.” In February of DNA canvasses done in Ontario or nationally. 2011, the RCMP conducted a DNA canvass of The OPP reported to us that it has conducted hundreds of taxi drivers in Prince George. a DNA canvass on six occasions in the past 19 To carry out the DNA canvass, the RCMP years (excluding the Elgin County canvass). It is contacted local taxi companies and asked to fair to say that DNA canvassing is not frequently interview their employees. During the interviews, employed as an investigative technique. However, taxi drivers were asked to provide samples of unlike many other investigative techniques, DNA their DNA.23 At least one taxi company provided canvasses have a high public profile when used, a list of its employees. Another taxi company was because they both engage and have an impact asked to allow the RCMP to use the office of the on multiple members of the public.25 taxi company to carry out the interviews. The Indeed, very recent media accounts company declined the request. demonstrate that the legitimacy of DNA
21 Ibid., at pg. 186. 22 http://www.sudburycrimestoppers.com/Crime%20Files/Rene%20Sweeney.aspx 23 Micheal Vonn, “Can a DNA Dragnet undermine an Investigation? A Case Study in Canada” http://www.councilforresponsiblegenetics.org/genewatch/ GeneWatchPage.aspx?pageId=377 24 http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2011/02/14/highway_of_tears_murder_probe_asks_cabbies_for_dna.html 25 More recently, according to the Canadian Press, Royal Newfoundland Constabulary officers asked tenants in a St. John’s apartment building for voluntary DNA samples the same day a man’s badly beaten body was found outside the building. An arrest followed shortly thereafter, though it is not currently known what role, if any, the DNA canvass played in that arrest. 57 Casting the Net 36 A Review of Ontario Provincial Police Practices for DNA Canvasses
canvassing continues to be debated in individual News reported that the RCMP would not confirm cases. In February 2016, CBC reported that whether the youth provided a sample, but said the RCMP gathered DNA samples from men that all DNA samples were destroyed and not and boys in Garden Hill, a remote First Nations on file for the future.27 It is unknown at this community 473 kilometres northeast of Winnipeg, stage what role, if any, was played by the DNA in an effort to solve the homicide of an 11-year- collection in the arrest. old local girl.26 Police sought the consent of about 2,000 men and boys (through their parents or guardians) in the community to provide their DNA. DNA CANvASSeS IN THe Garden Hill Chief Arnold Flett indicated that the uNITeD STATeS majority of community members welcomed this move because they wanted the case solved. Police in various jurisdictions across the United Sheila North Wilson, Grand Chief of Manitoba States have also employed DNA sweeps, as they Keewatinowi Okimakanak, met with the RCMP are known there, as an investigative technique. and defended its tactic as a means to an A 2005 study conducted by Samuel Walker and important end for the community. She observed Michael Harrington of the University of Nebraska that residents didn’t feel safe: “They’re desperate identified 18 instances of DNA sweeps in the for answers and I think I have to support what United States between 1990 and 2004.28 Those they want. If they don’t feel like their rights are DNA sweeps collectively resulted in the collection being violated then I have to respect that.” of approximately 7,000 samples by the police. On the other hand, Corey Shefman, a human According to the study, the DNA sweeps were rights lawyer and past president of the Manitoba successful in identifying the perpetrator in only Association for Rights and Liberties, reportedly one case – and that case involved a very narrow said that the RCMP’s request was far from sweep of employees in a nursing home who had voluntary and is an example of the systemic access to a resident, who was in a coma and had racism that First Nations people face. He said been sexually assaulted and impregnated. that questions must be asked about making After reviewing these 18 sweeps, Walker and generalizations and sweeping conclusions Harrington concluded that DNA sweeps were not about a First Nations community: “Some 60 per only ineffective, but very costly. They ultimately cent of people in Manitoba jails are indigenous proposed a very restrictive model policy to be and we can’t ignore that context…” He was adopted by police in the United States when also concerned about the retention of collected contemplating the use of a DNA sweep. samples in a database, though the police said Walker and Harrington and other that they explained that the DNA was being commentators have also raised concerns about collected for this investigation only. the disproportionate impact of DNA sweeps on On March 17, 2016, the RCMP arrested and racialized communities in the United States. charged a 15-year-old male with first degree In several identified instances, large numbers murder in the case. On March 18, 2016, Global of members of a racialized community were
26 http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/manitoba-grand-chief-defends-rcmp-collection-of-dna-from-2-000-men-boys-on-first-nation-1.3434835 27 http://globalnews.ca/news/2585859/manitoba-rcmp-to-provide-more-details-on-teresa-robinsons-killing-friday/ 28 Police DNA “Sweeps”: A Proposed Model Policy on Police Requests for DNA Samples (July 2005), note 13, p. 5. 58 OIPRD Office of the Independent Police Review Director 37
targeted as part of a DNA sweep based on DNA …Why would they want to keep something if a broad or vague description. Not only were you’re innocent?” these sweeps unsuccessful in identifying the In 1997, the lawsuit was successful, the perpetrator, but they were said to “reinforce the samples were ordered destroyed or returned and impression that the police are stereotyping people the plaintiffs received monetary damages. of colour, and as a consequence aggravate long- standing tensions that community policing and Miami, Florida other efforts are designed to overcome.”29 I have cited a few examples below. More than 120 Hispanic males were asked to submit DNA samples in the course of a serial rape Ann Arbor, Michigan investigation. The perpetrator was later arrested, but not as a result of the DNA sweep. The In 1994, the police were investigating a serial samples that were provided were not destroyed rapist. Based on a broad description that the by the police, but rather run through a database perpetrator was African-American, the police of unsolved crimes. One of the men’s DNA profile collected samples from 160 African-American proved to be a match to evidence collected from males. The sweep did not lead to any arrest. an unrelated sexual assault. He was immediately Rather, the perpetrator was arrested when he arrested and charged. This example was cited by was caught attacking another woman. He was some as evidence of the utility of a DNA sweep. not among the 160 men who had been tested by However, the police had neglected to speak with the police. the victim prior to charging the man. When they The community was very concerned about the did, she advised them that she had engaged manner in which the DNA sweep was conducted. in consensual sexual relations with him shortly There was evidence that the police used coercive before she was assaulted. He had not been tactics to compel production of the samples involved in any crime. After three days in jail, the and did not destroy the samples they had charges were dismissed and he was released. collected. Several men claimed that their alibis were disregarded and that they were told that Charlottesville, Virginia submitting a sample was the only way to clear their names. One man alleged that he was told Between 1997 and 2003, the police in that if he did not give a sample, the police would Charlottesville, Virginia investigated a series of obtain a court order compelling him to do so. six sexual assaults that were linked through DNA As a result, a class action lawsuit was evidence. Using a composite sketch of an African- launched by some of the 160 innocent men who American man, the police began seeking DNA provided samples. One of the litigants alleged samples. Approximately 200 men were asked for that he lost his job after detectives informed his and provided DNA samples. The police ultimately co-workers that they wanted to interview him. suspended the sweep as a result of criticism that He said, “It was horrible, your worst nightmare the criterion for asking individuals for samples … Who knows what they’ll do? They’ve got your was too broad.
29 Ibid., p. 5. 59 Casting the Net 38 A Review of Ontario Provincial Police Practices for DNA Canvasses
Omaha, Nebraska 3. No DNA sample shall be retained by any criminal justice agency in cases where the In 2004, the police were investigating the sexual person has been found to be not implicated assault of four women over a period of two years. in the crime(s) for which the sample was Using a broad description that the perpetrator obtained. All such samples shall be delivered was African-American, between 25 and 40 years to the person within ten days after the of age, 5'3'' to 5'9'', stocky with a large stomach notification required in Section [2] above. and between 175 and 250 pounds, the police gathered samples from 36 African-American men The authors observed that, “[b]asic standards who were said to match the rough description of decency require that people who have been of the perpetrator. Some of those who provided cleared of suspicion be promptly notified. A written samples raised concerns that the samples were record of such notifications ensures that law requested without any notice and in front of their enforcement agencies can be held accountable wives and children. No suspect was identified as for complying with this requirement.” Equally, a result of the DNA sweep. “[b]asic standards of fairness require that law Walker and Harrington proposed a model enforcement agencies not retain personal policy for police requests for DNA samples. In information about a person who is not a criminal their view, “[l]ocal law enforcement agencies suspect. Failure to return any such evidence only should not be left to their own devices on the creates distrust of the police and damages police- subject of voluntary DNA searches. A model community relations.” policy based on thoughtful consideration of all the The authors also identified “best practices” to relevant issues is needed.” be adopted by the police: Their model policy, Police DNA “Sweeps”: A Proposed Model Policy on Police Requests A. Only use DNA dragnets as a last resort for DNA Samples, included the following key B. Limit the scope of a dragnet to those who elements: match the description of the perpetrator or who have access to the victim 1. Police requests for voluntary DNA samples i. If the court allows DNA dragnets to are permissible only when police officers continue, it should limit the scope of a have specific credible evidence linking a dragnet to those suspects who police person or a very small number of people with reasonably suspect could have committed a crime. Broad requests for DNA samples the crime. from individuals about whom there is no ii. DNA dragnets should only be implemented specific credible evidence are not permissible. when there is a description of a suspect that Requests for voluntary DNA samples based is sufficiently narrow that it does not include on individualized suspicion are permissible. all members of a particular race or gender. 2. When a person who has given a voluntary C. Police should inform potential donors of their DNA sample is found to be not implicated in right to refuse to volunteer a DNA sample the crime(s) for which the DNA sample was D. Police should not be permitted to threaten obtained, that person shall be immediately potential donors with increased scrutiny and notified in writing of that fact. future legal action 60 OIPRD Office of the Independent Police Review Director 39
e. Police should destroy samples gathered a. The sample is knowingly and from donors exculpated in a DNA dragnet or voluntarily given in connection with the disclose how the samples will be used investigation of a particular crime; i. To ensure that consent to provide a DNA b. The person was informed by a sample is voluntary, DNA samples should written advisory prepared by the law only be used for identification or exclusion enforcement agency that the request in the case for which the sample was may be refused and that such refusal obtained. In addition, samples should be does not provide probable cause or destroyed and DNA records expunged reasonable suspicion to believe that the immediately upon exclusion of a donor person has committed a crime, and the in the DNA dragnet. If the court allows person signs the advisory; and the use of a DNA sample outside of the c. No threat, pressure, duress, or coercion purposes of the DNA dragnet, then police of any kind was employed, whether (i) should be required to inform potential direct or indirect, (ii) express or implied, volunteers of the full scope of the use of or (iii) physical or psychological; their DNA samples. 3. Any DNA sample obtained in violation F. Police should protect the privacy of innocent of this section is not admissible in any donors and those who exercise the right not to proceeding for any purpose whatsoever; provide DNA voluntarily 4. A person shall be notified in writing by the law enforcement agency immediately upon Nebraska has since legislated on this topic. Its the determination that he or she has not legislation is reproduced below: been implicated by his or her DNA sample in the commission of the particular crime 29-4126. Limitations on obtaining and using in connection with which the DNA sample samples. was obtained; 5. Except as authorized in subdivision (7) of Notwithstanding any other provision of law: this section, such sample and all identifying information pertaining to the person shall 1. No DNA sample shall be obtained from any be delivered to the person within ten person for any law enforcement purpose days after the notification required by in connection with an investigation of a subdivision (4) of this section with a written crime without probable cause, a court explanation that the materials are being order, or voluntary consent as described in turned over in compliance with this section; subdivision (2) of this section; 6. Except as authorized in subdivision (7) of 2. In the absence of probable cause, if any this section, the law enforcement agency person is requested by a law enforcement shall purge all records and identifiable person or agency to consent to the taking information pertaining to the person of a DNA sample in connection with a law specified in subdivisions (4) and (5) of this enforcement investigation of a particular section; crime, such consent shall be deemed 7. An accredited laboratory authorized voluntary only if: to perform DNA testing under section 61 Casting the Net 40 A Review of Ontario Provincial Police Practices for DNA Canvasses
29-4105 shall be allowed to maintain therefore appear to be lawful to obtain multiple the minimum records and supporting bodily samples from an identified group of documentation of DNA tests that it individuals pursuant to the informed and voluntary has performed as needed for the sole consent of each individual, unless the targeting purpose of complying with the laboratory of the group can be said to violate constitutional accreditation standards as set forth by a or legislative provisions. It can safely be said that national accrediting body or public agency; in Canada, a DNA canvass is, as a general rule, 8. No record authorized for retention under legally permissible. subdivision (7) of this section shall be It is therefore not surprising, perhaps, that transferred, shared, or otherwise provided there have been very few reported cases in to any national, state, county, or local law Canada where the legality of a DNA canvass has enforcement agency unless such person been an issue. In all but one of those cases, the has been implicated in the case by his or defence focused on the validity of the consent her DNA sample; purportedly given by the accused, and not on the 9. Any aggrieved person may file an action in lawfulness of the investigative technique itself. district court against any person, including In one case, the validity of the DNA canvass any law enforcement agency, to enjoin itself was challenged. such person or law enforcement agency In R. v. Osmond, the accused was charged from violating this section; and with the sexual assault and murder of a 13-year- 10. Any person aggrieved by a knowing old girl. The death occurred in Zeballos, British violation of this section may bring an action Columbia, a small, isolated community on in district court for damages. A person Vancouver Island. Its population was estimated to found by the court to be aggrieved by be between 300 and 600 people. The community a violation of this section shall receive was accessible by water and was a 40-minute damages of not less than one thousand drive from the nearest paved road. Investigators dollars and may recover reasonable costs determined that the victim had attended a party and attorney’s fees. the night that she was murdered. As there were few other leads, the police decided to undertake a DNA canvass of 12 young men whom the police DNA CANvASSeS IN CANADIAN believed were “running around” the night of the JuRISPRuDeNCe party. Mr. Osmond was one of those men. He provided a bodily sample, on consent, that yielded As I have said earlier, as a general rule, it is a DNA profile that was a statistical match with lawful for Canadian police services to obtain DNA found on the victim’s body.30 bodily samples for the purposes of forensic At trial, Mr. Osmond’s lawyer argued that DNA analysis from individuals who provide their DNA canvasses were an improper use of police informed and voluntary consent. The lawfulness powers because they invaded the privacy of of a request to provide a bodily sample, on persons who were not suspects. This argument consent, is not dependent on the existence was maintained despite evidence that Osmond of reasonable and probable grounds. It would consented to provide a sample. The defence
30 R. v. Osmond, 2009 BCSC 550 (CanLII) at paras. 11 – 13. 62 OIPRD Office of the Independent Police Review Director 41
contended that there is significant societal overall lawfulness, even where a particular consent pressure on each requested individual in a small is said to be informed and voluntary. However, it community to provide a sample of his or her DNA is for others to develop that argument in a case in and that therefore, the request to provide a DNA which the issue squarely arises. sample was essentially a requirement to prove one’s innocence.31 The court rejected the defence position. In DeSTRuCTION OF DNA SAmPleS doing so, it found it unnecessary to consider the AND THe ReSulTS OF FOReNSIC broader policy implications of DNA canvasses ANAlySIS because this canvass was reasonably narrow. The court noted that the community was small and It is difficult to discuss the statutory and historical isolated. It was therefore reasonable to assume destruction of DNA samples and the results of that the perpetrator came from the community. forensic analysis without reference to what the Mr. Osmond was also closely connected to CFS and the OPP did in connection with the the family of the victim and to the location of investigation which is the subject of this systemic her body.32 The court concluded that “this DNA review. Accordingly, rather than await my findings canvass and the manner in which Mr. Osmond’s in chapter five, I have described in this chapter consent was sought operated in a manner that both the existing law, practices and procedures was neither random…or unfair to him.”33 surrounding destruction and how they have been The defence also submitted that DNA canvasses interpreted and applied by the OPP in the context were unconstitutional for another reason: namely, of its investigation. that a refusal to comply with a request for a Subsection 487.09(3) of the Criminal Code bodily sample for forensic DNA analysis raises states: the suspicion of the police; hence, it was said to interfere with an individual’s right against self- Destruction of bodily substances, etc., incrimination.34 In rejecting this submission, the voluntarily given court held that a “refusal which only serves to ‘raise the suspicions of the police’ is of no real (3) Bodily substances that are provided consequence. Suspicions are not evidence.”35 voluntarily by a person and the results of On appeal, the British Columbia Court of forensic DNA analysis shall be destroyed Appeal confirmed that in the circumstances of or, in the case of results in electronic form, this case, the DNA canvass was a permissible access to those results shall be permanently investigative process.36 removed, without delay after the results of that In my view, there remains scope for a analysis establish that the bodily substance contention that a DNA canvass predicated on racial referred to in paragraph 487.05(1)(b) was not profiling or discriminatory practices implicates its from that person.
31 l bid., at paras. 51 – 55. 32 I bid., at para. 56. 33 I bid., at para. 56. 34 Ibid., at para. 54. 35 Ibid., at para. 54. 36 Ibid., at para. 22. 63 Casting the Net 42 A Review of Ontario Provincial Police Practices for DNA Canvasses
When the CFS receives a bodily sample taken in Exhibit Continuity Notes and the notes of FIS from a potential person of interest, it is referred Constable Bates. to as the original comparison sample. A smaller Prior to the collection of DNA from the migrant sample is taken from the original sample for workers here, the CFS and police services in forensic DNA analysis. The practice in Ontario is Ontario, including the OPP, had already created that the remainder of the original sample is then or identified protocols or procedures to govern returned to the investigating police force. notifications between the CFS and police as The CFS is responsible for the destruction to when a donor had been cleared, and when of the smaller extracts. The CFS does this destruction of bodily substances was to take through the disposal of the extracts in biohazard place or had taken place. These protocols or containers that also hold other bio-hazardous procedures were subsequently refined in a waste. The extract containers are labelled only February 7, 2013, memorandum sent by the with a bar code. There is no link between this bar CFS to all Ontario chiefs of police and the OPP code and the origin of the individual samples. Commissioner.38 It states, among other things: When the biohazard container is full, it is closed, sealed and sent for pickup by the contracted When a DNA analysis results in an exclusion, waste disposal company. The biohazard box is such as that noted in this report, the Criminal not identified as containing DNA extracts and it is Code (ss. 487.09(1) (a) and (3)) mandates collected as part of a larger shipment for disposal. destruction of the comparison sample, the After the containers are removed from the CFS, extracted DNA from the comparison sample they are transported to the waste disposal and the results of the forensic DNA analysis company’s facility for incineration. The CFS of that sample. The remaining original confirmed that all of the samples it held that were comparison sample has been returned to you provided by the migrant workers were destroyed and it is your responsibility to ensure Criminal on October 27, 2014. Code compliance with respect to this sample – The investigating police force is responsible i.e., destruction of the sample and permanent for the destruction of the remainder of the original deletion of the information that links the name comparison sample. The OPP confirmed that of the person to the comparison sample.39 all 96 samples it held that were provided by the migrant workers were destroyed on April 11 The CFS also implemented a process to follow up and 12, 2014.37 The swabs were destroyed by with police services every three months with a list removing any labels attached to the packaging of all the reports issued in the previous quarter. and then depositing each into a biohazard That list is sent to the DNA coordinator for each container stored in the biohazard disposal area applicable police service.40 located in a locked outbuilding within the secure I take no issue here with the destruction of compound at the OPP FIS location in Tillsonburg. the bodily substances provided by the migrant The destruction of these samples is recorded workers by the CFS and the OPP and the timeliness of that destruction.
37 Of course, this does not include Henry Cooper’s samples. 38 All Chiefs Memo – re: DNA Destruction, February 7, 2013. 39 I bid. 40 Ibid. 64 OIPRD Office of the Independent Police Review Director 43
There were more significant issues identified OPP DNA Manual – Version 10. It refined during our systemic review in connection the procedures governing the destruction of with the disposition of bodily substances and consent samples: related records. The first issue relates to what notification, When a comparison DNA sample obtained if any, is provided to cleared donors that their by a person by way of informed consent bodily substances are about to be, or have been, is excluded as being the sources of any destroyed. One of the questions raised by the evidence samples specified in the Consent migrant workers during the OPP investigation Form, investigators shall destroy any sample was what would happen to the DNA samples materials returned by CFS without delay as they provided. It is true that the consent form outlined in subsections 487.09(3) C.C. (refer they signed stated that the samples would be to All Chiefs Bulletin #13-0012 and section destroyed once it was determined that the bodily on Destruction Notices). According to a legal substance did not match the perpetrator under opinion obtained from the Ministry of the investigation. Nonetheless, many workers were Attorney General, dated May 24, 2012, all still unclear and worried about what the police related reports, documents and videotapes in could do with the samples provided. During the police custody may be retained… systemic review, workers and their representative organizations remained uncertain as to whether Due to changes made by CFS in April 2012 the bodily substances had been destroyed as and the resulting All Chiefs Bulletin required by statute. #13-0012 dated February 7, 2013, regarding The evidence disclosed that no steps were analysis of Consent and Warrant samples, taken by the OPP to notify any of the workers and CFS automatically returning a portion of who provided samples or their representative the sample back to the investigator to allow organizations that the bodily substances were for subsequent additional testing, notice for about to be or had been destroyed. The OPP destruction of samples deemed to be excluded submitted that there was no statutory requirement as the sources of submitted scene samples that the police provide such notification. That will occur as follows: is correct. However, the OPP policy manuals are instructive in this regard. At the time the 1. For older case submissions, a separate buccal swabs were collected from the migrant Destruction Notice will be issued and sent workers, the OPP had a manual in place that by CFS to the Provincial DNA Coordinator governed its handling of the samples: the OPP who will forward it directly to the noted DNA Collection and Process Manual (OPP DNA recipients listed on the Destruction Notice. Manual) – Version 9. It was silent as to any 2. For newer submissions, directions for protocol, procedures or best practices governing sample destruction will be included with notification to cleared DNA donors that their the Result Notification report that pertains bodily substances were about to be, or had been, to the analysis of the specific Consent destroyed. or Warrant sample. Investigators should In November 2013, the OPP issued a revised be vigilant in reading these reports to 65 Casting the Net 44 A Review of Ontario Provincial Police Practices for DNA Canvasses
determine if such a provision exists in the police destroy such bodily substances, even if the report. The provision will be noted by the individuals to whom they relate are cleared. CFS in the “Conclusions” portion of the The OPP DNA Manual – Version 10 states report. CFS will send out quarterly reports that as there is no legislation pertaining to the itemizing the specific reports and sample destruction of discarded DNA samples, the items for which the provision applies, in investigators should follow the same retention order to assist with follow up compliance rules as for scene evidence samples. That with the above noted Criminal Code includes: requirements. Detachment commanders, in consultation with the The manual reflects that as soon as the CFS Regional DNA Coordinator, shall ensure that all determines that a DNA sample has been investigative files including documents and DNA excluded, it will send a Destruction Notice to the evidence are: Provincial DNA Coordinator. The Provincial DNA Coordinator will then notify the lead investigator, • Kept updated using Major Case Management who is then responsible for the destruction of protocol and/or Niche RMS41 with the the sample. Once the DNA sample has been appropriate UCR codes destroyed, the lead investigator will notify the • Flagged for indefinite retention unless Provincial DNA Coordinator. occurrence is solved/closed, charges laid have More significant, in the context of the been disposed of, and all appeal periods have notification issue, the manual also states that “it been exhausted is recommended that the investigator contact the • Maintained and archived in accordance sample donor to allow the donor the opportunity with prescribed techniques and policies for of viewing the destruction.” To state the obvious, safe handling and preservation techniques one cannot participate in the destruction process (application of appropriate methods and (or even have any awareness that the destruction procedures to ensure that evidence is has actually taken place) unless there is some maintained in a condition suitable for future notification provided by the police. Accordingly, analysis of evidentiary items containing there appears to be some disconnect between biological substances) unless subject to the the recommendation contained in the manual and previously noted destruction provisions of actual practice. subsections 487.09(1-3) C.C. A second issue relates to the destruction • Reviewed regularly and following the end of the of bodily substances discarded by individuals above retention periods, evidence items are who are subsequently cleared by the police. returned to the owner (owner must be notified Subsection 487.09(3) of the Criminal Code only of presence of potential contaminated biological mandates the destruction of bodily substances substances) or disposed of in accordance with provided voluntarily by a person. It is silent as Police orders and/or local policy to destruction of bodily substances discarded by individuals, and then obtained by the police. Simply put, the Manual does not require the OPP There is currently no statutory requirement that to destroy discarded samples.
41 Niche RMS is a police records management system used by the OPP and the majority of police services in Ontario. 66 OIPRD Office of the Independent Police Review Director 45
Similarly, nothing compels the CFS to destroy sample”). The OPP Manual – Version 10 directs, discarded DNA samples. On the contrary, the as already noted, that investigators shall destroy CFS retains the DNA profile (a series of numbers) any sample materials returned by the CFS along with the sample identifier in its computer without delay as outlined in the Criminal Code. Discard Index. The extracted DNA is also stored It goes on to state that “[a]ccording to a legal indefinitely in a frozen state. opinion obtained from the Ministry of the Attorney Several stakeholders, including the Office General, dated May 24, 2012, all related reports, of the Information and Privacy Commissioner documents and videotapes in police custody may of Ontario and the Canadian Civil Liberties be retained.” The OPP maintains that the legal Association, have urged me to recommend either opinion itself is privileged, and hence, its contents that the Criminal Code or applicable policies are not reflected in my Report. should be amended to treat discarded samples of I observe that subsection 487.09(3) only cleared individuals no differently than samples of mandates the destruction of, or the permanent cleared individuals that were voluntarily provided. removal of access to, the results of forensic The third issue relates to the destruction of, or analysis of DNA provided by cleared individuals. removal of access to, records which contain the The OPP investigation generated a variety of results of forensic analysis of DNA from cleared documents relating to the DNA canvassing individuals. Subsection 487.09(3) is not confined that took place: for example, officer notes as to the destruction of bodily substances (that is, to the identity of individuals who provided DNA DNA samples). It also requires the destruction samples, and audiotapes or consents capturing of the results of forensic DNA analysis or, in the their agreement to provide such samples. There case of results in electronic form, the permanent are obvious questions as to what records are removal of access to those results if they are said to capture the results of forensic analysis, in electronic form. Again, these are only the as opposed to records that relate to the DNA results of forensic DNA analysis that has cleared canvassing, but are not properly regarded as individuals who voluntarily provided samples. capturing the results. Currently, the Consent to Provide Biological The OPP advised me that documents and Samples form reflects that “the samples will be electronic data relating to the investigation are destroyed and electronic data related to the retained indefinitely. The offences involved here samples will be permanently removed once it is (sexual assault with a weapon and forcible determined that the bodily substance does not confinement) are “threshold offences,” making the match to the crime under investigation.” investigation a “major case.” OPP Police Orders The CFS memorandum dated February 7, and the Police Services Act require the use of 2013, instructs Ontario police services that it the Ontario Major Case Management system in is their responsibility to ensure Criminal Code such investigations. Major Case Management is compliance with respect to the remaining original supported by the software program PowerCase comparison sample which has been returned to for records management. The names and them by the CFS (i.e., “destruction of the sample particulars of individuals canvassed are recorded and permanent deletion of the information that in PowerCase. PowerCase is managed directly links the name of the person to the comparison by the Ontario Ministry of Community Safety and 67 Casting the Net 46 A Review of Ontario Provincial Police Practices for DNA Canvasses
Correctional Services. Information inputted into and procedures exist respecting the disposition PowerCase by police services is stored for an of such records. Such practices and procedures indefinite period of time and information cannot be protect the legitimate privacy interests of permanently deleted by police agencies.42 innocent persons, and if known more generally, The same information is also contained in the also reduce the disincentives to providing hard copy and electronic files of the investigation. DNA samples voluntarily. These important The OPP advised me that it has received interests must be reconciled with the need for requests for disclosure under the Freedom of police accountability and effective policing – Information and Protection of Privacy Act (FIPPA) both of which entail the preservation of some pertaining to this documentation. It is also the documentation of the police investigation. respondent in related civil litigation. As well, this The issues here transcend DNA canvassing, systemic review is ongoing. No records can be or indeed the preservation of records pertaining destroyed where a request for access under to the results of DNA testing. Their resolution FIPPA is pending, where there is a pending has significant implications for individual privacy legal action, where a commission of inquiry or and policing. The issues also arise at a time in investigation requires the records as evidence, which heightened scrutiny is being directed to the or where the Archivist of Ontario has imposed a retention of policing records, and its impact on temporary moratorium on records destruction.43 those affected. My recommendations address the Currently, the investigative files, including future work that must be done in this area. the migrant workers’ names, consent forms, and audiotape recordings of interviews, are stored in the Crime Unit secure storage vault at the Elgin County OPP detachment. There is a single key to obtain access to this secure area, which can only be done by Crime Unit members. The consent forms were also scanned and are stored electronically on the secure network server at the Elgin County OPP detachment. Involved officers’ notebooks are stored at their home work location for a period of seven years and then they are transferred to an OPP central repository for indefinite storage.44 In my view, the underlying rationale for subsection 487.09(3) includes protecting the privacy interests of cleared individuals who provide DNA samples to the police, and ensuring that they are not prejudiced in the future by the unwarranted retention of records pertaining to them. It is important that appropriate practices
42 Memorandum to IPRD Gerry McNeilly from the OPP, April 7, 2016. 43 Ibid. 44 Ibid. 68 OIPRD Office of the Independent Police Review Director 47
CHAPTER FIVE Findings and Analysis
SummARy OF FINDINgS regardless of his physical characteristics. The police reasoned that the breadth of the DNA 1. In chapter one, I identified several core canvass was justified since items left at the findings that I have made based on the scene could have been taken or borrowed by available evidence. For convenience, these the perpetrator from other migrant workers, are repeated here, together with several whose DNA on these items might have additional findings that help explain my indirectly led to discovery of the perpetrator. recommendations. The OPP investigation In my view, this rationale did not provide was not motivated by racial prejudice. In the sufficient justification for the decision to seek particular circumstances, the police were DNA samples from virtually every local migrant entitled to focus on local migrant workers of worker of colour. colour to identify the perpetrator. Moreover, 3. While I am satisfied that, in the particular they were entitled to employ DNA canvassing circumstances of this case, the overly as an investigative technique in an attempt to broad DNA canvassing was not based on identify the perpetrator. stereotypical assumptions about migrant 2. However, the DNA canvass here was overly workers or persons of colour (and as such, broad. It was designed to obtain DNA from did not amount to racial profiling), it is virtually every local migrant worker of colour, perfectly understandable why it would have 69 Casting the Net 48 A Review of Ontario Provincial Police Practices for DNA Canvasses
been perceived as such by members of the community and public interest organizations. FINDINg: Regardless of the lack of intent or motivation The elgin County OPP was not to discriminate, the nature and scope of motivated by racial prejudice. the DNA canvassing could reasonably be expected to have an impact on the migrant workers’ sense of vulnerability, lack of security Racial Profiling and fairness. It could also send the wrong A centrepiece of the complaint against the message to others in the local community Elgin County OPP and its officers was that they about how migrant workers, as a group, engaged in racial profiling. While there is no should be regarded. A more focused DNA universally accepted definition of “racial profiling,” canvass was appropriate, and could have it may be of assistance to explain what is alleviated or reduced concerns about racial generally meant by the term. profiling, while supporting an effective and The Ontario Human Rights Commission thorough investigation. defines racial profiling as “any action undertaken 4. The OPP investigation failed to recognize the for reasons of safety, security or public protection particular vulnerabilities of the migrant worker that relies on stereotypes about race, colour, community targeted by the DNA canvass ethnicity, ancestry, religion or place of origin – and how those vulnerabilities were relevant rather than on reasonable suspicion – to single to whether the consents obtained were truly out an individual or group for greater scrutiny or informed and voluntary. In fairness, the OPP different treatment.” took significant steps to attempt to ensure that I accept and rely upon that definition, which consents were informed and voluntary. These also finds support in existing human rights steps were not always successful. jurisprudence. 5. The investigation failed to adequately take The Ontario Provincial Police recognizes that measures to ensure, to the extent possible, racial profiling is unlawful. In its Diversity Journal that decisions by workers not to provide DNA Report, published in 2011, the OPP states that samples remained confidential, particularly it was “among the first policing organizations from their employer. to implement a policy against racial profiling 6. The authorities were obligated in law to and explicitly support bias-free policing through destroy the DNA samples of individuals operational policy.” cleared in the investigation. This, in fact, was The report goes on to say: done in a timely way. However, a number of the migrant workers did not understand that In 2004, section 2.37 of Police Orders, their DNA samples would be destroyed or entitled Traffic/Enforcement/Road Safety was would not be used for other purposes. amended to include: Illegal profiling is not 7. The OPP took no steps to notify the migrant permitted and shall not be tolerated in any workers when their DNA samples were about respect. Illegal profiling means taking law- to be or had been destroyed. enforcement actions, such as stopping/ 70 OIPRD Office of the Independent Police Review Director 49
questioning/searching/detaining/arresting a on migrant workers in its efforts to identify the person, based solely on the person’s: perpetrator of the crime under investigation is explained, in whole or in part, by racial profiling • race • colour and (b) whether the investigative technique • age • same-sex adopted, namely the DNA canvassing of virtually • place of origin partnership status all of the local migrant workers, is explained, in • creed • ancestry whole or in part, by racial profiling. • ethnic origin • family status • sex • disability The Focus on Local Migrant Workers of Colour • sexual orientation • citizenship The violent sexual assault on a local resident took • marital status place in the Municipality of Bayham. Bayham has a small population that is fairly homogeneous. Racial profiling is a form of racial discrimination. It would appear that there are very few black It is contrary to the Ontario Human Rights Code people in the area other than those who work for police to treat people differently based on as migrant workers on farms. One of the local stereotypical notions about their race, colour or investigators told the OIPRD that he did not know ethnicity. Whether characterized as racial profiling of any people from Jamaica living in the township, or simply discrimination, it is equally unlawful although he did know of one African-American for police to treat people differently based on family living in the area. stereotypical notions about their ancestry or place When the victim reported the matter to the of origin. police, she described the perpetrator as black, It is also well recognized that racial profiling with a heavy accent, possibly Jamaican. She need not involve an intention or motivation to provided a description of his clothing as well. discriminate. The focus, particularly in human She said she knew that he was one of the rights litigation, is on the effect of the impugned migrant workers who came to Canada to work conduct on the affected individuals or group. As on the farms. the OHRC noted, this is a reflection, among other In subsequent interviews with the police, she things, that racial stereotyping will usually be the reiterated that the perpetrator was black, that result of subtle unconscious beliefs, biases and he had an accent because she had a hard time prejudices. understanding him, and that he was a migrant It follows that differential treatment of migrant worker from the area. workers based on stereotypical assumptions The victim’s residence is on a back road about men of colour or about Jamaican men with the closest neighbour about a quarter of a or men of Caribbean ancestry would, if proven, kilometre away. During the harvesting season, amount to prohibited discrimination. This would the road is often travelled by migrant workers on be so even if such stereotypical assumptions their way to the orchards to pick crops. It is not a amounted to only one factor out of many leading thoroughfare for other travellers. to that differential treatment. The victim described how she would see the Accordingly, I have considered two related workers walking, cycling or driving along the road issues: (a) whether the OPP decision to focus and that she would wave back to them if they 71 Casting the Net 50 A Review of Ontario Provincial Police Practices for DNA Canvasses
waved at her. She indicated that the perpetrator Yeah we, when we made contact with the would have seen her there because she sits on farmer, we arranged to start at that location her porch to smoke as the workers pass by. He and because of the nature of the information would likely know that she lived alone. we had had, she lived on [address removed], Her home is also located not far from it was a back road, there’s not many several farms and bunkhouses where migrant neighbours. There was two other, actually workers work and live while in Canada. The three other bunkhouses… The information we local migrant workers are racialized members of got was that she was out on the porch every the community, most of whom are of Caribbean night and so she lived alone, so our thoughts background or origin. were that she indicated that the person would Detective Sergeant Gonneau told the OIPRD: have seen her there because she watches them go up and down the street on a regular She lives in that area, she sees the migrant basis. So work in the fields, going back and workers travelling by her residence all the forth to the bunkhouses led us to believe that time, so I trusted that she knew what she was it was, it could have been any one of those talking about when she said those things and persons living in the bunkhouse at that point. their proximity to the area. And again the fact So we started at the closest location and then that the season was ending and they were worked our way to the furthest. The other going to be going home, we had to, as in any thing that kind of, I can’t say we knew that canvass, go to a house and say, “Who lives this early, but at some point we knew that that here?” and there’s maybe four or five people, particular weekend there was a farm party but in that case it was a lot of people, so we where all the workers from all the neighbours were going to have to go talk to them… come in and they partied and they partied at the, wasn’t the Rosenberger House but it was [W]e were faced with an issue of our timeline the one… where there was two bunkhouses… because the harvest season was coming so we kind of started at the Rosenberger to a close and people would be returning House and because of the interaction back home and as well, the description and the and forth and travelling, it could have been information that we had from the victim was any one of the workers that had opportunity to not anything that was specific enough that know that she was out there on a regular basis it would necessarily assist us in, you know, and that she was living alone… pinpointing a certain person. It’s not like we had a tattoo or a scar or anything like All of the available information led the police, that. It was very broad and the discussion correctly in my view, to focus their investigation was around how are we going to deal with on the local migrant worker community. The addressing this portion of the investigation that description given by the victim of the perpetrator’s had to be investigated. skin colour and accent, her residence’s proximity to orchards and bunkhouses where the migrant Detective Nolan also described the situation to workers worked and lived, the nature of the the OIPRD: typical traffic on the road, and the generally homogeneous population of Bayham all strongly 72 OIPRD Office of the Independent Police Review Director 51
pointed to the perpetrator as one of the black migrant workers who lived near the victim’s FINDINg: house. This inference did not depend on any The DNA canvassing of virtually stereotypical assumptions or preconceptions every local migrant worker of about criminality and men of colour. colour, regardless of his physical Moreover, we have reviewed the entire characteristics, was overly broad. investigative file of the OPP. There is no evidence while it was not based on stereotypical from that review to indicate that the police assumptions about migrant workers or focused on the migrant worker community for any persons of colour (and as such, did not improper purpose or reason. While I recognize amount to racial profiling) it nonetheless that such evidence would not necessarily be could reasonably be expected to apparent on the written record, I am satisfied here impact on the migrant workers’ sense that it was not the case. of vulnerability, lack of security and In this regard, I am bolstered by the interviews fairness. A more focused DNA canvass my office conducted with the migrant workers would have been appropriate. and the investigating officers. By all accounts, the investigating officers acted professionally in their dealings with the migrant workers. They I have concluded that the manner in which were unfailingly polite and courteous and did the OPP implemented the DNA canvass was their best to accommodate the workers’ work overly broad. My reasons for that are detailed schedules so as not to interfere with their paid below. However, before turning to that analysis, labour. I know, all too well, that racial profiling I recognize that the police faced some particular and discrimination can be undertaken by people challenges in this case. who are nonetheless polite and courteous. The The first challenge was that the workers were officers’ manner of dealing with the workers is seasonal workers who were scheduled to leave only one factor in determining what inferences of Canada within a very short time frame. In fact, fact should be drawn from the circumstances. some of the workers had already gone home. The police also made a significant effort to It is not a typical feature of an investigation that explain to the workers the voluntary nature of the perpetrator is likely embedded in a large the decision to provide DNA, their right to refuse, group of individuals who are all leaving the their right to consult with counsel and that any country in short order. refusal would not jeopardize their employment The Elgin County OPP cited this increased in Canada. This does not mean that the police pressure as a reason to move swiftly to obtain conduct was without flaws or raises no concerns. DNA even before other evidence had been I discuss those flaws and concerns below. collected or analyzed – indeed, before the OPP However, I am satisfied, based on the totality of received confirmation from the CFS that a viable the evidence, that the OPP’s decision to focus on male DNA profile had been extracted from the local migrant workers to identify the perpetrator crime scene. was not motivated by racial prejudice. Various officers described the time pressures in interviews with the OIPRD. Detective Staff 73 Casting the Net 52 A Review of Ontario Provincial Police Practices for DNA Canvasses
Sergeant Raffay, who made the decision to was the impetus, you know, if I do the crime conduct the DNA canvass, said this: and I’m going to leave… I don’t think we had a DNA sample at the time and this was the Well, the victim had provided information that other consideration. We think we’re going to the suspect had brought with him several have something that’s viable for DNA. So, items... There was interaction between the with the people leaving and this idea of the suspect and the victim which would make limited description, I think this is what brought you believe that there could be DNA on these the rationale that one, there are some time items. The victim provided a description of the pressures; two, we’ve got a demographic in suspect and some information on the suspect proximity to the scene that it seems viable and from that information, I learned that there that we should go to the community and say, were several farms in the area that housed, “Look we’ve had this situation and this is what or that employed migrant workers and that it we’re confronted with, our description. We seemed like a logical step to canvass that have no specific suspect to point to so can area. And being that those individuals were you help us with this?” And that, essentially, going to be leaving in a short period of time, was the rationale, as I understand it. There we had to gather what evidence we could and was nothing really with the rationale that I thought [a DNA canvass] was a viable and a caused me a great deal of concern. good investigative technique to do that. Detective Sergeant Gonneau said this: Inspector Peer, the OPP West Region Area Manager of Criminal Operations, said this: I would say that in another circumstance where we weren’t faced with the fact that The investigative thought seemed to be, people were going to leave the country, that given the description we have farms in things could possibly, if we had more time, proximity so this seems like a likely place maybe the decision would have been made to look… We had some pressures because differently. But I think that was a constraint people were leaving – possibly people are on us for sure. Normally, would we seek DNA leaving the country that may have been unless we had DNA? I don’t think so, but we involved. Detective Staff Sergeant Raffay were certainly hopeful we were going to get thought that [the DNA canvass] was going some DNA, if not from her, surely we would to be a viable thing. It was presented and it have gotten something from the shirt. seemed like a reasonable approach. The second challenge that the involved officers I think the reason it may have been so quick said figured prominently in the scope of the DNA was the assessment of the scene – we had canvass was the potential unreliability of the somebody that was fairly well organized, that victim’s description of the perpetrator. To be clear, brought stuff to the scene, had the weapon. there was no concern about her truthfulness or There seemed to be some determination honesty, but instead about the extent to which the and forethought into what was going to take police could rely on her description. place here, and that people were leaving 74 OIPRD Office of the Independent Police Review Director 53
During the investigation, the Elgin County OPP traumatic experience that she went through, appeared to have had enough confidence in the eyewitness accounts are frail. The courts have description the victim gave of the perpetrator to put ruled sometimes they are unreliable because it in a news release seeking the public’s assistance there have been false [identifications]. And so in solving the crime. The composite sketch of the when we looked at it, we were careful not to perpetrator, based on the victim’s description, was just narrow it down to her being exactly right also shown to farm owners during interviews with for those frailty issues. police. None of the officer notes, will-says45 or the minutes of the case meetings mentions any Detective Constable Chandelier expressed a doubts or misgivings about the description of the similar view: perpetrator provided by the victim. In fact, when asked by the OIPRD how the description given It is common knowledge, and the courts have by the victim compared to the description of the said, that there are frailties in victim accounts individual who was charged and convicted of the and victim descriptions. So, I don’t think you crime, Detective Constable Nolan said: can go to the letter of what someone has described, especially in that sort of situation, Actually she was pretty close. I can’t deny like she’s been accosted in her home by a that she was. person who’s very covered up. We didn’t want to limit the scope too much because… However, in interviews with the OIPRD, all the Well, she said she believed it was a Jamaican officers who took part in the investigation outlined accent. In fact, the actual suspect, he was not concerns about the accuracy of her description. Jamaican; he was from another island. Our Detective Sergeant Gonneau told the OIPRD: thought, I think, was that if you pigeonhole too much that you may miss other information. I had concerns with perhaps the accuracy of the description necessarily because of I accept that eyewitness descriptions of a the circumstances under which she had perpetrator – particularly in the circumstances obtained it. She was taken by surprise from facing the victim – can be prone to error. behind; she was immediately thrown into a Precision in estimating a stranger’s age, height brick wall; she was literally frightened for her and weight or even a limited range of age, height life; she was choked; she was dragged; she and weight is difficult at the best of times. Indeed, was blindfolded; she was tied up. Part of her the victim acknowledged in one interview her observations made of him was when she was difficulty in distinguishing between the migrant partially blindfolded so I had reservations in workers of colour. In my view, the police were hanging my hat on specifics of this description. entitled to make reasonable allowance for potential inaccuracies in the description given by Detective Constable Nolan said this: the victim and, accordingly, seek DNA samples from individuals who did not necessarily meet We also know, and we have to take into every descriptor provided by the victim. This is account, that given the circumstances of the particularly so where the police knew that they
45 A will-say statement is a summary of what a witness is expected to testify to in court. 75 Casting the Net 54 A Review of Ontario Provincial Police Practices for DNA Canvasses
might not have a second opportunity to expand • 38 years old, 5'3", 180-190 lbs., their search if initial canvassing confined to those crooked front teeth who strictly met the victim’s description proved to • 36 years old, 5'3", 209 lbs. be unsuccessful. All that being said, the police sought DNA from At Wilk’s Farm, the OPP took samples from virtually46 every local migrant worker of colour, workers with the following police descriptions: though a number of them could have easily been excluded based on the obvious and wide disparity • 53 years old, 5'11", 200 lbs., full beard, between their features and the perpetrator’s dreadlocks, gold teeth features, as described by the victim. Indeed, the • 52 years old, 5'11", 215 lbs. evidence reveals that, in a number of instances, • 51 years old, 5'7", 225 lbs. investigators reflected at the time that workers • 40 years old, 6'2", 270 lbs. who were requested to provide DNA samples did • 36 years old, 6'5", 240 lbs. not match the victim’s description and raised no • 25 years old, 6'5", 150 lbs. concerns as a result. My finding that the DNA canvass was overly At least five workers were described as East Indian. broad is also supported by the OIPRD’s review In summary, while I recognize the limitations of the questionnaires filled out by the police for of the eyewitness description of the perpetrator every migrant worker who agreed to provide a and the time pressures to complete canvassing DNA sample. quickly, I am also satisfied that a large number In total, the police took DNA samples from of migrant workers were unnecessarily asked to 96 migrant workers. The men ranged in age from provide DNA samples and, as a result, a large 22 to 68. number of DNA samples were unnecessarily They ranged in height from 5'2" to 6'6". taken. This contributed to a perception that They ranged in weight from 110 lbs. to 328 lbs. the canvassing unfairly targeted the migrant By way of illustration, at Rosenberger House, community as a whole. the OPP took samples from workers with the In the circumstances, it is hardly surprising following police descriptions: that some workers felt that they were being racially profiled. • 68 years old, 5'5", 110 lbs. One worker said this: • 45 years old, 5'4", 130 lbs. • 41 years old, 5'3", 175 lbs. I think it were racial cause they saying they’re • 33 years old, 6'6", 130 lbs., goatee actually looking for a tall guy, slim and stuff like that. I don’t fit that description. I see where big At Pastor House, the OPP took samples from fat guys, they were actually doing their DNA workers with the following police descriptions: and say that must be racial because there’s none of us with that description. • 61 years old, 5'7", 168 lbs. • 51 years old, 6'1", 328 lbs.
46 The use of the term “virtually” reflects the fact that 54 migrant workers were not asked to provide DNA because they were bused to and from work, and had no opportunity to commit the crime under investigation. 76 OIPRD Office of the Independent Police Review Director 55
And from another worker: To engage in such expansive canvassing on the basis of this relatively remote possibility I never fit that description, none at all… unnecessarily contributed to the perception that well, I’m black. If I’m coming here and I’m men of colour or of Caribbean origin were being looking for a tall white man, why should I look stereotyped and targeted. It also potentially for a little short man and say I’m going to contributed to unwarranted assumptions about question you. migrant workers, as a group, by others in the community. Several of the lead investigators told the OIPRD that they felt at the time that it was appropriate to request DNA samples from every migrant FINDINg: worker, regardless of his physical characteristics. The investigation failed to recognize the This viewpoint was based on the fact that the particular vulnerabilities of the migrant perpetrator had brought to the crime scene, and worker community targeted by the DNA left behind, several items (two shoelaces and canvass, and how those vulnerabilities a strip of clothing) used to facilitate his crime. were relevant as to whether the On the theory that the perpetrator might have consents obtained were truly informed taken these items from a fellow worker, a positive and voluntary. In fairness, the OPP match with any migrant worker, even if not the took significant steps to attempt to perpetrator, might have produced evidence of the ensure that consents were informed perpetrator’s identity. and voluntary. These were not always In my respectful view, this belief that items successful. brought to the crime scene may have come from someone who was not the perpetrator, though genuinely held at the time, provided a poor rationale to justify taking DNA samples from FINDINg: every migrant worker of colour. It was a relatively The investigation failed to adequately remote possibility that any male DNA profile take measures to ensure, to the extent found at the crime scene would not belong to the possible, that decisions by migrant perpetrator and that the perpetrator had brought workers not to provide DNA samples someone else’s shoelaces and strip of clothing to remained confidential, particularly from the crime scene. their employer. If that possibility was a realistic one, I would have expected the police to take other investigative steps. For example, they could have The vulnerabilities of the migrant workers searched for or asked migrant workers about the hoodie worn by the perpetrator or asked about In evaluating the approach taken to the DNA the items left at the scene. In any event, there is canvassing, the particular vulnerabilities of the no evidence that police explained to the migrant migrant workers, which distinguish them from workers this alternative justification for seeking other employees, cannot be ignored. The migrant DNA samples from them. workers are not citizens or permanent residents 77 Casting the Net 56 A Review of Ontario Provincial Police Practices for DNA Canvasses
of Canada. They enter Canada on special permits Moreover, migrant workers are separated from under the Seasonal Agricultural Worker Program, their families and home communities, and are a temporary foreign workers’ program.47 Their likely to have little understanding of Canadian permits are tied to specific employers and they legal rights and duties. In the circumstances, have very limited workplace mobility.48 They it can reasonably be expected that they will are dependent on their employers for housing, generally cooperate with police and forego legal wages and the ability to remain in Canada. Their rights to which they are entitled, so as not to risk current and future employability in Canada is, as the displeasure of their employers or the police. a result, relatively precarious and dependent on For example, one of the workers told the the ongoing approval and satisfaction of the farm OIPRD: owners. They are not unionized and do not have a number of employment protections available to He said to me, if you don’t want to do it get other Canadian workers.49 This vulnerability was a lawyer, so in myself, if I get a lawyer I’ll be captured in a 2013 decision of the Human Rights suspected. And he said he could provide us Tribunal of Ontario in Monrose v. Double Diamond with a lawyer or a representative lawyer, but Acres Limited: what I look at is it’s my first year here and I don’t want nothing to be bad on my record. [11] I accept the evidence of Dr. Basok that migrant workers are exceptionally Another worker stated: vulnerable workers and will have difficulty vindicating their rights in the workplace and My concern was that after I finished everything elsewhere as a consequence of their unique they said I could contact a lawyer. But I vulnerability. I also accept her evidence that believe that the first thing that they should as a consequence of their unique vulnerability present to me, when I came into the vehicle, migrant workers rarely seek to vindicate was the instruction that if I don’t want to what rights they have for fear of repatriation proceed I could contact a lawyer. or not being asked to return in subsequent years. I also accept Dr. Basok’s evidence The OIPRD reviewed the audiotapes of the DNA that the consular and liaison officials from the consent portion of the interviews that the Elgin supplying countries tend to be more interested County OPP conducted with the migrant workers. in preserving the program for the workers in The officers were courteous and professional their countries than in vindicating the rights throughout. The migrant workers interviewed by of individual workers. Dr. Basok made no the OIPRD confirmed this. There was no evidence comment on the particular circumstances of that the police used pressure or coercive tactics this case.50 to secure DNA samples. The police explained to workers that providing a sample was voluntary,
47 The Seasonal Agricultural Worker Program is one of the streams in the federal government’s Temporary Foreign Worker Program, which allows employers to hire temporary workers from Jamaica, Trinidad and Tobago, Barbados, the Organization of Eastern Caribbean States and Mexico. These workers can stay in Canada for up to eight months. Many return to the same farms year after year because their employers request them by name. 48 If the workers’ contracts expire before the maximum stay in Canada, they can only transfer to another farm with the approval of Service Canada. If they transfer without such approval, they can be banned from the Program. 49 I n February 2016, the Canadian federal government announced plans to ask a parliamentary committee to review the Temporary Foreign Worker Program. 50 2013 HRTO 1273 (CanLII). 78 OIPRD Office of the Independent Police Review Director 57
that the worker could refuse and that the decision wanted to ensure that we didn’t inconvenience to refuse would have no bearing on the worker’s both the workers and the farmers. The employment in Canada. workers are here for employment, to make The Consent to Provide Biological Samples money, and we didn’t want to take that form also stated that their decision was voluntary away from them, so we tried to pick a time and that workers had the right to consult counsel that was opportune to both of them. So the without delay. It provided a telephone number investigators spoke to the farmers to make that would allow the worker to access free legal arrangements for that part of it. advice. Finally, there were workers who advised the OIPRD that they were unconcerned about Detective Constable Chandelier added: providing DNA or how it might be used, and felt morally obliged to assist in identifying a predator We liaised with the owner of the farm and the in their midst. Simply put, while the vulnerabilities management of the farm. They knew what we of the migrant workers, coupled with the role of the were doing and they were basically facilitating farm owners described below, are an important us being able to talk to the people because part of the narrative, and help inform how and they are big farms and trying to track everyone whether DNA canvassing should have been down separately would have been an issue. done, it is overly simplistic to say that vulnerable workers are incapable, under any circumstances, Detective Constable Nolan told the OIPRD: of providing informed and voluntary consent to providing samples of their DNA. We felt the best way was to get a hold of the farmer, the owner, and arrange through him. The Role of the Farm Owners in the What we were thinking was, we don’t want Investigation to interrupt his farming, we don’t want to take the workers away from their jobs, so if we The migrant workers were all employees of arranged it through the farm owner, either farms in the area. Not surprisingly then, the Elgin before or after they work, then we would just County OPP contacted the farm owners and their attend their farm – preferably the location staff to learn about the number and names of where they’re living so when they come home their employees. The owners and their staff also or when they’re getting ready to go out, we facilitated the interviews that followed. For the can kind of do it one at a time and do the least police, this appeared to be the most efficient way amount of interruption in their life. for them to speak with the workers and collect their DNA. The OPP was also attempting to avoid In chapter two, I provided some limited description interfering with the fruit picking that had to be of the role that the owners and their staff, completed. particularly at Martin’s Farm, played in the police Detective Staff Sergeant Raffay advised investigation. Some repetition and elaboration is the OIPRD: necessary here. Leighton Martin described his initial Obviously we had to speak with the farmers to communications with the police and his workers get permission to be on their property and we as follows: 79 Casting the Net 58 A Review of Ontario Provincial Police Practices for DNA Canvasses
The message was given about the situation, representatives before speaking with his workers. which was serious. The description given to He did contact the Seasonal Agricultural Worker police by the victim was that of an offshore Program Trinidad liaison office to advise them worker, they started with Martin’s Farm of what had occurred, as the situation involved because they were closest to the scene of the the migrant workers in the Program. Martin told crime. The OPP told us that they are coming the OIPRD that when the liaison officer was first to have interviews with all of them. The OPP informed, she suggested that it might not be was courteous and said that they wanted to proper that the police were doing this before they work it into the farmer’s work plan as best they had proof. Ultimately, the liaison officers played can. They told the farmers about the test and no role in the unfolding investigation. that they were going to ask the workers, but Martin also told the OIPRD that later in the they need to be ready to volunteer. It was not investigation he learned that two51 men, including something they can demand of them. That Cooper, had not provided a sample. The police was explained to the workers. did not instruct Martin to take any follow-up steps, but Martin did approach two of the men and In a follow-up interview with the OIPRD on encouraged them to cooperate. In a statement December 11, 2015, Mr. Martin expanded on his to the OPP, he indicated that the men would role in the investigation. After he was contacted not be invited back unless they consented to by the OPP, he met with his employees in their providing a DNA sample. Martin said that one work groups (typically, consisting of 12 people). worker objected to providing a sample. The He advised them that the police were coming worker did not trust the police not to misuse the to interview them because of the incident that sample. Martin was not very concerned about this had occurred, that from the victim’s description, particular worker because he did not match the the perpetrator appeared to be an offshore perpetrator’s description. worker, and that the Martin’s Farm bunkhouses Cooper, on the other hand, did match the were closest to the victim’s residence. He description. According to Mr. Martin, when he told the workers that the police were doing an approached Cooper to discuss the issue, Cooper investigation and that no one was being accused told him that he was fasting because his parents of anything. He encouraged the workers to had died. Martin knew that to be untrue as cooperate with the police and they, in turn, did not Cooper’s brother, who also worked for Martin, express any concerns to him at the time. made no mention that their parents had died. This According to Mr. Martin, the OPP had not raised Martin’s suspicions. Martin encouraged instructed him to deliver this particular message Cooper to cooperate and provide a sample. He or any other. They simply asked for his help to told Cooper that the decision whether to provide a coordinate the interviews and the taking of DNA sample was voluntary, in the sense that he could samples. The goal was to ensure the police not be forced to participate. However, Martin could conduct their investigation with minimal advised Cooper that he would not be invited interference to the fruit picking work to be done. back the following year if he did not cooperate. Nor did Mr. Martin have any contact with Cooper’s refusal to participate even after that community organizations or community caution raised serious concerns for Martin.
51 According to the OPP documents disclosed to the OIPRD, three workers from Martin’s Farm refused to provide a DNA sample, one being Henry Cooper. 80 OIPRD Office of the Independent Police Review Director 59
In his interview with the OIPRD on a position to monitor or control what information December 11, 2015, Mr. Martin indicated that was or was not provided to the workers about he alone crafted and delivered his message to the investigation, the anticipated interviews, the Cooper. The OPP never told Martin to speak to workers’ legal rights, or the voluntary nature of the Cooper (or the second worker) and never provided DNA canvassing. Martin with a message to be relayed to Cooper. Even if the farm owners accurately explained As indicated earlier in this Report, no police the voluntary nature of the decision to participate officer who was interviewed by the OIPRD in DNA canvassing, the owners’ perceived role indicated that he/she had told Mr. Martin about in the process could undermine, in the workers’ the individuals who refused to provide samples. minds, the proposition that a failure to cooperate However, it is clear that Martin believed he knew with the police would have no employment who had refused. His recollection was that the consequences. Their ongoing employment in police gave him this information. Canada was dependent on having a positive If the police did advise Martin that particular working relationship with the farm owner. Workers workers refused to provide a sample, this was would naturally feel pressured to cooperate incompatible with the information they were with the authorities to please the farm owner, providing to the workers that any refusal would regardless of what was conveyed to them. This not be disclosed to their employer. I accept that is not speculation or a remote hypothetical on my the police did not instruct Martin to challenge part. Some workers expressed this very concern the workers who refused to provide a sample in interviews with the OIPRD. Their comments or, in Cooper’s instance, to advise him that he included the following: would not be rehired if he refused to provide a sample. Martin’s approach was incompatible with He give me choices… If I want to or not want the information the police were providing to the to... So I have [to] do it. We want to come back workers that a refusal could have no employment up America… So me no do it you’re here, we consequences. One might, in retrospect, have no get no call to come back to Canada. little sympathy for Cooper, since he turned out to be the perpetrator. However, it was only because If I don’t give it what will the ramification of this Martin believed, rightly or wrongly, that the other be… it was a fear in not doing it… and I have worker did not match the perpetrator’s description loss in my income to my family back home… that he did not also tell him that he would not be So, I had no choice. employed the following year if he continued to refuse to provide a sample. To state the obvious, I do think it was voluntary. It’s just how the the voluntariness of any “consent” that might situation was that you just… you left with no follow such intervention by an employer would be choice because they came in, said that the highly suspect, regardless of what the police told police will be on the compound, they coming the affected worker. to get a DNA or something like that. The involvement of the owner and his staff in organizing the workers for their interviews This problem was compounded by the presence and in describing the process to them was also of farm owners and/or their staff when the workers problematic. It meant that the police were not in were directed to police cars or the mobile van 81 Casting the Net 60 A Review of Ontario Provincial Police Practices for DNA Canvasses
where DNA samples were taken. What happened preferred to have the canvass conducted. When at Martin’s Farm is illustrative. asked whether there was consideration of doing During some of the canvasses, it appears canvasses at a location away from the farms, that Mr. Martin or one of his staff, John Banman, Detective Constable Wouters said this: would accompany each worker to the police car for the initial interview. Neither was present in I don’t know if it was [considered], but that the police car for the actual interview. Once the wouldn’t make logistical sense. We’d have interview was completed, the police read the to transport these people or they’d have to Consent to Provide Biological Samples form be transported to us and then taken back so to the worker. This was audiotaped, along with that’s that, just eating up the farmers’ time and the worker’s verbal consent. If the consent form their time more. So, I don’t think that would was signed, the police directed the worker to a have made it easier. It might have been easier mobile van, where his DNA sample was taken. Of for us, because we could go into a building course, if a worker did not attend the van, it would that’s nice and clean and dry and warm and have been obvious to Mr. Martin or Mr. Banman whatever. I’ll tell you I froze out there a few as well as the other workers present that he had mornings. It was as easy on those people as refused to provide consent. we could make it. Mr. Martin described the process as follows: Detective Constable Nolan told the OIPRD: The police first wanted to do it bunkhouse by bunkhouse and started with two bunkhouses I did another investigation when I first came that were closest to the site of the crime. We into the Crime Unit and we had a fairly large said actually to do it in working hours would investigation in the Amish community. The work out the best, then the police can come issue there is that they are not accustomed out during working hours and we will bring to police. It was a major sexual assault them in crew by crew – the ones from this investigation, a number of people, like the particular bunkhouse. I was present; I did not entire community was involved – 35 families, hear the interviews, but I was actually the including their leadership levels and all the one that brought the workers out of the fields, way down. So what we did there is we met three or four at a time. They waited in the car with the leaders of the community because with me until they were ready for them. The they’re very religious-based people, and we officer would come to the car door. He was approached everybody through their deacon very polite and courteous while the men were and we made sure they didn’t say anything to approached. And I will say too that the workers the people about the investigation, basically were very cooperative. prepped them for having us come onto their property. We went to their homes to make it While it is clear that officers consulted the farmers more comfortable, and we had that kind of about how best to conduct the canvass, there is protocol set in place and it worked very well. no evidence that they made any effort to find out When I re-look at this, that wouldn’t have from the workers how and where they would have been such a bad idea to really have, I mean 82 OIPRD Office of the Independent Police Review Director 61
it would be time-consuming, more than what Canada or their ability to work. Some workers it was I would think. But I mean, to be able confirmed to the OIPRD that the police specifically to maybe prepare them better for us to come told them that their employers would not be in and explain to them what we’re doing and advised if they refused to provide DNA. Such how we’re going to do things and so forth – a representation could provide little assurance somebody as a buffer to kind of help them to workers who could themselves observe the understand that this is the process and go presence of the owners and/or staff nearby. through this. In summary, I have identified circumstances – the particular vulnerability of migrant workers, As a general rule, DNA canvassing should not the involvement of employers in facilitating the take place at a subject’s workplace. There is an DNA canvassing and in being present during obvious concern that the subject’s voluntariness the process itself, and the fact that at least one might be undermined by the employer’s proximity. owner knew who had refused to provide samples I recognize that, in this rural setting, there were – that raise concerns about whether the consents limited alternatives available to the police, obtained were truly voluntary in all cases. Some especially when they were justifiably solicitous aspects of the DNA canvassing should have been about not interfering with the work that was being done differently to minimize those concerns. Most done. However, the legitimacy of the process significant, the investigation failed to adequately was undermined, however inadvertently, by take measures to ensure, to the extent possible, the presence of the owner and/or staff during that decisions by workers not to provide DNA the canvassing and their role in describing the samples remained confidential, particularly from upcoming process to the workers. It would have their employer. This is tempered by the fact that been preferable if the owner or staff played no the OPP officers demonstrated good faith and role in describing the process to the workers. professionalism in their approach to individual Their description was undocumented and beyond migrant workers. the control of the police. It would also have been preferable, even if slightly less efficient, if the Other material Circumstances owner and staff were not present when workers In my view, two other features of the DNA were directed to the van to provide a DNA sample canvassing require some attention. or sent back to work. Alternatively, the physical First, the police conducted their interviews of arrangements could have been configured the migrant workers in their police vehicles. The differently to ensure that the owner and staff were workers were seated in the back seat. At times, not able to see whether each worker provided a both the officers and migrant workers struggled to DNA sample. see the consent forms. As one officer said during I have reviewed the audiotapes of the the interview process, “Yeah, the lighting in this consents provided by the workers to the police. car isn’t always the best. We’ve got a flashlight if As I noted earlier, the police repeatedly advised you need it to make it brighter.” the workers that the DNA test was voluntary, that It would have been preferable if the workers they could refuse to provide DNA samples, and had been interviewed in a second mobile van or that their refusal would not affect their status in another private location on-site rather than in the 83 Casting the Net 62 A Review of Ontario Provincial Police Practices for DNA Canvasses
back of a police vehicle, whether unmarked or Best practice dictates that the entirety of any not. To state the obvious, these were not accused discussion concerning consent should have been persons or even suspects. recorded, rather than recording only the purported Second, I have referred several times to the confirmation of what had been discussed and audiotaping that took place. agreed to before the recording began. The The police generally conducted their underlying rationale of audiotaping the process interviews in two parts. The first part involved is to record, in a transparent and reviewable the completion of the customized OPP canvass manner, the process leading to an informed and form – that is, the questionnaire. This part of the voluntary consent. A partial recording fails to interview was not audiotaped. The second part of serve that rationale. the interview involved a review of the Consent to Provide Biological Samples form with the worker and obtaining his signed consent. This part of FINDINg: the interview was audiotaped. While that was The authorities were obligated in law to commendable, it is clear from listening to the destroy the DNA samples of individuals recordings that the initial request for DNA was cleared in the investigation. This, in generally made during the first (and unrecorded) fact, was done in a timely way. However, part of the interview. Indeed, we know that a number of the migrant workers did this occurred because the recorded part of the not understand that their DNA samples interviews includes the following statements: would be destroyed or would not be used for other purposes. Okay, and I just quickly asked you if you’d be willing to provide a sample of your DNA to prove that you’re not the person that In chapter four, it was convenient to set out committed the sex assault and you said you not only the existing law on destruction of DNA would, right? samples and related records, but to indicate that the CFS and the OPP had indeed destroyed, in This is just a consent. You’ve, we just spoke a timely way, the DNA samples obtained from briefly about providing a sample of your saliva, cleared migrant workers. They complied with their right? To eliminate you as a possible suspect obligation under the Criminal Code. in this sexual assault investigation. However, despite efforts on the part of individual officers to explain to the migrant And we’ll just go through the, we had gone workers that their DNA would be destroyed if through the canvass form and at the end there they were cleared and would not be used for you volunteered to give a sample of your DNA, other purposes, it is obvious that not all of the is that correct? workers understood this. This remained true, even though the officers’ explanation was coupled … [W]e just finished the canvass form and with language contained in the consent forms you’ve agreed to give us a sample of your that also described the obligation to destroy DNA correct? the DNA samples of cleared individuals. This 84 OIPRD Office of the Independent Police Review Director 63
is, of course, no reflection on the workers, but simply a reflection of the fact that these legal concepts were foreign to most of them. It is also a reflection of the fact that they were unaided by the assistance of counsel. I have already explained why the workers would largely have been inclined to cooperate with the police and not avail themselves of legal representation. I also note that the consent form does not say that the sample voluntarily provided by the signator may only be used for the purposes of the identified investigation and for no other purpose. Finally, as reflected in chapter four, the evidence discloses that the OPP took no steps to attempt to advise the migrant workers, once they had been cleared, that their DNA samples were about to be destroyed or had been destroyed. Similarly, the migrant workers were not provided with any opportunity to observe the destruction of those DNA samples. The OPP was under no legal obligation to act otherwise. However, its most recent DNA Manual recommends that cleared individuals be given an opportunity to observe the destruction of the samples they provided. My recommendations in chapter six address the issues raised by these and related findings. 85
CHAPTER SIX Recommendations
The Need for a Policy on DNA Canvasses
As reflected earlier in this Report, I am satisfied that the OPP investigation was not motivated by racial prejudice as alleged in the complaint to the OIPRD. However, I also conclude that the decision of the police to conduct such a broad DNA canvass contributed to the understandable perception that the DNA canvass was based on stereotypical assumptions about migrant workers of colour. The manner in which the DNA canvassing was done also raises concern about whether the consents provided by members of a vulnerable community were truly voluntary. Policing relies heavily on public acceptance and a shared commitment to justice. It is important that policing not only be free from racism, racial profiling, bias and discrimination, but is perceived as such by the community. In this context, it is crucial that a policy be created by the OPP and similarly situated police services to identify and ensure best practices and compliance with the law. My key recommendations provide guidance on the contents of such a policy. 86 OIPRD Office of the Independent Police Review Director 65
Recommendation 1: The OPP must develop a policy to govern how and when DNA canvasses are conducted. The policy must, among other things, identify and ensure best practices.
Recommendation 2: Similarly situated police services should also develop such a policy.
I recognize that not every police service in this province has the resources to conduct DNA canvasses. Accordingly, in this context, a similarly situated police service is one which, by virtue of its mandate and resources, might reasonably be expected to employ, on occasion, DNA canvasses to further an investigation in which it is the lead or joint agency.
The model Policy on DNA Canvassing
Recommendation 3: The policy adopted by the OPP and similarly situated police services should conform to, or be guided by, the Model Policy on DNA Canvassing below.
Preamble
1. This policy outlines best practices in connection with “DNA canvasses.” Members of the police service are expected to be guided by, and comply with, the best practices identified in this policy. The policy also refers, at times, to statutory or constitutional requirements that must be complied with.
2. A “DNA canvass” refers to the police investigative tool of seeking to obtain DNA samples from a group of individuals without reasonable grounds or suspicion to believe that any particular individual within the group is the perpetrator. The group of individuals may be identified based on potential access to a crime scene or upon characteristics, such as race, shared with the perpetrator. 87 Casting the Net 66 A Review of Ontario Provincial Police Practices for DNA Canvasses
3. In deciding whether a DNA canvass will be conducted, investigators should be mindful, among other things, of the following:
a. DNA canvasses involve the expenditure of substantial human and financial resources both by police services and forensic laboratories.
b. The identification of a group of individuals based on race or colour or analogous identifiers may reinforce the impression that the police are stereotyping people of a certain identifiable group, and as a consequence, create or exacerbate tensions between the community and the police that community policing and other initiatives are designed to overcome.
c. DNA canvasses must be conducted in ways that are compliant with the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, the Ontario Human Rights Code and the Criminal Code. This means, among other things, that: i. DNA samples can only be obtained directly from individuals, absent a court order or probable grounds, based on their informed and voluntary consent. ii. DNA canvassing that relies on stereotypes about race, colour, ethnicity, ancestry, religion, or place of origin – rather than on reasonable suspicion – to single out an individual or group for greater scrutiny or different treatment amounts to racial profiling and discrimination.52 It is unlawful.
d. Some groups of individuals are particularly vulnerable based, for example, on the nature of their employment or status in Canada, requiring heightened sensitivity by police as to how their informed and voluntary consent should be obtained.
e. The retention of DNA samples of individuals cleared of involvement in the crime under investigation by DNA testing undermines the rights of those who voluntarily provide such samples.
52 Actions that rely on stereotypes about other enumerated grounds under the Ontario Human Rights Code may not amount to racial profiling, but amount to discrimination nonetheless. 88 OIPRD Office of the Independent Police Review Director 67
Best practices
4. The following best practices should guide decisions as to whether and how a DNA canvass should be conducted, and what steps should follow the completion of the investigation:
a. Given the costs (both in the expenditure of resources and in police-community relations) associated with DNA canvasses, they should not be used as an investigative tool, absent special circumstances, unless: i. there is a reasonable prospect that they will further the investigation in a meaningful way; and ii. the seriousness of the offence under investigation justifies the associated costs.
b. In determining whether there is a reasonable prospect that a DNA canvass will further the investigation in a meaningful way, the police should consider, among other things: i. how many individuals might reasonably be regarded as falling within the class of potential perpetrators and whether the number of such individuals can even be determined ii. the specificity or lack thereof of any description of the perpetrator iii. the extent to which the police have access to all, or the vast majority of, those individuals who might reasonably be regarded as falling within the class of potential perpetrators iv. the availability of alternative investigative techniques.
c. The group of individuals whose DNA will be requested pursuant to a DNA canvass must share the characteristics of the perpetrator, as determined by the investigation. Reasonable allowance can be made, in this regard, for the imprecision of eyewitness descriptions of the perpetrator.
d. Police should protect the privacy of donors and those who exercise the right not to provide DNA voluntarily. This means, among other things, that: i. an individual’s decision whether to provide a DNA sample should not be unnecessarily shared with the individual’s employer or third parties unrelated to the investigation 89 Casting the Net 68 A Review of Ontario Provincial Police Practices for DNA Canvasses
ii. the police should make requests for voluntary DNA samples, to the extent reasonably practicable, in private.
e. Any consent to provide a DNA sample must be informed and voluntary. This means, among other things, that: i. the police should advise the individual that he or she is not required to provide a DNA sample ii. the police should not advise the individual that they can obtain a warrant to secure the DNA sample if it is not provided voluntarily iii. the police should not coerce or threaten the individual to obtain a DNA sample iv. the police should advise the individual that he or she may retain or consult a lawyer prior to deciding whether to provide a DNA sample voluntarily v. the police should advise the individual how any DNA sample will be taken, and by whom vi. the police should advise the individual what use will be made of the DNA sample and what will be done with the DNA sample and related information/data once the investigation is completed. Such advice must be consistent with the mandatory provisions of s. 487.09(3) of the Criminal Code.
f. Consents should be obtained in writing. The written consent should accurately reflect, in plain language, among other things: i. the fact that the individual is not required to provide a DNA sample ii. the use that will be made of the DNA sample and what will be done with the DNA sample and related information/data once the investigation is completed. The consent should specifically reflect that the DNA sample will only be used for the purposes of the subject investigation and for no other purposes and that it will not be retained if, as a result of DNA testing or other investigative work, the individual is cleared as a suspect in the subject investigation.
g. Police should not seek the consent of an individual to providing a DNA sample for purposes unrelated to the subject investigation.
h. Where the group of individuals whose DNA is being sought is a vulnerable group by reason of the nature of their employment, 90 OIPRD Office of the Independent Police Review Director 69
status in Canada or analogous circumstances, the police should involve, if reasonably practicable, community-based organizations which represent the group’s interests to facilitate access by group members to legal advice.
i. Where the group of individuals whose DNA is being sought is a vulnerable group by reason of the nature of their employment, status in Canada or analogous circumstances, the police should take all reasonable steps to ensure that the community-based organizations and/or legal advisors are present and/or readily accessible at the time that the samples are being requested.
j. If it is necessary to conduct DNA canvassing at an individual’s place of employment, neither the employer nor his/her agent should be present at the time of the contact between the police and the prospective donor.
k. In conjunction with subparagraph 4(f), the police should clearly convey, in plain language, both verbally and in writing, the voluntary nature of the decision to provide DNA. These discussions should be recorded in their entirety to ensure fairness and transparency.
l. When an individual who has given a voluntary DNA sample is cleared as a suspect in the subject investigation, the individual should be notified, if possible, of that fact, either forthwith or as soon as reasonably practicable thereafter if notification forthwith could reasonably compromise the ongoing investigation. Such notification should generally be in writing or, at the very least, memorialized in writing.
m. No DNA sample provided voluntarily by an individual pursuant to a DNA canvass should be retained by any criminal justice agency, including, but not limited to, the applicable police service and the forensic laboratory which analyzed the sample, where the individual has been cleared as a suspect in the subject investigation. The disposal of such a sample should take place without delay. The individual should be notified, if possible, of the disposal of the DNA sample as soon as reasonably practicable after the disposal has taken place. 91 Casting the Net 70 A Review of Ontario Provincial Police Practices for DNA Canvasses
n. The police should purge all records and identifiable information pertaining to the individual who has been cleared as a suspect in the subject investigation except to the extent such records and identifiable information need to be maintained to document the subject investigation.
o. Where the group of individuals that is targeted by a DNA canvass is vulnerable, or where the DNA canvass could create the perception of racial profiling or stereotypical thinking, the police should proactively work with community-based organizations to address these issues, reduce misunderstandings, and enhance police- community relations.
Commentary on the model Policy on DNA Canvassing
Paragraph 2 contains a definition of a DNA canvass. Perhaps the most significant aspect of the definition is that the police need nothave reasonable grounds or suspicion that a particular individual within the group is the perpetrator. This is consistent with Canadian jurisprudence that permits DNA samples to be taken from individuals in the absence of reasonable grounds or suspicion based on the donor’s informed and voluntary consent. Paragraph 3 articulates factors that should inform an investigative decision as to whether a DNA canvass will be conducted and, if conducted, how it will be conducted. The first two factors address the “costs,” in the broadest sense, associated with DNA canvasses. DNA canvasses involve the expenditure of substantial human and financial resources both by police services and forensic laboratories. The identification of a group of individuals based on race, colour or analogous identifiers may reinforce perceptions of stereotyping by the police and exacerbate tensions in the community. These concerns are captured in Police DNA “Sweeps”: A Proposed Model Policy on Police Requests for DNA Samples (July 2005), referenced in chapter four. As I discussed in that chapter, the authors developed a model policy on the use of DNA canvasses as part of a University of Nebraska initiative. The State of Nebraska ultimately legislated in this area. The authors said this on the issue of costs: 92 OIPRD Office of the Independent Police Review Director 71
Given the strong evidence about ineffectiveness [of DNA sweeps] as an investigative tool, they represent a serious waste of resources. The most serious waste involves the inefficient use of police officer time. The collection of large numbers of DNA samples also overloads forensic laboratories… It is a serious mistake, therefore, to further burden laboratories with additional samples arising from sweeps that are highly unproductive. Tests are also expensive, and consequently impose a dollar cost on already financially strapped agencies.
DNA sweeps also impose costs on communities affected and on police-community relations. Particularly in African American and Hispanic communities, they reinforce the impression that the police are stereotyping people of color, and as a consequence aggravate long-standing tensions that community policing and other efforts are designed to overcome.
The literature certainly supports, at least anecdotally in the United States and in Canada, some high-profile failures associated with the use of DNA canvasses. As well, it is obvious that DNA canvasses do involve the expenditure of valuable human resources. We know that the CFS is severely taxed with requests that it must prioritize for DNA and other forensic testing. The literature also supports, particularly in the United States, the concern that DNA canvasses targeting members of a racialized community can elevate police-community tensions. The Model Policy on DNA Canvassing does not restrict DNA canvasses based on the costs associated with them, but rather ensures that decision- makers are mindful of these costs when structuring their investigations. If, for example, the group of individuals which might include the perpetrator is so broad that a successful DNA canvass is unlikely, the costs, in the broadest sense, associated with the undertaking should figure prominently in whether the canvass should even take place. As was pointed out by several police services that made submissions to the OIPRD, the expenditure of time and money should never determine whether a serious crime goes unsolved. The police have responsibilities to the public and to the victims of serious crimes. The Model Policy only reinforces that time and money are relevant operational considerations. The third factor highlights the requirement that DNA canvasses comply with the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, the Ontario Human Rights Code and the Criminal Code of Canada. A centrepiece of a DNA canvass is the informed and voluntary consent of those who are asked to 93 Casting the Net 72 A Review of Ontario Provincial Police Practices for DNA Canvasses
provide samples. The legality of a DNA canvass will be largely dependent on whether DNA was obtained pursuant to truly informed and voluntary consents. Some groups of individuals are particularly vulnerable based on their employment situation or status in Canada. Police must be mindful of such vulnerabilities when deciding how consents will be sought and obtained. This is not to be regarded as some “indulgence” for some members of the community, and not others. Nor can it fairly be regarded as undermining the effectiveness of the police investigation. On the contrary, it simply recognizes, as does existing jurisprudence, that a determination whether a truly informed and voluntary consent was obtained is fact-specific. An employer asked to consent will almost always be differently situated than a migrant worker asked to consent in the presence of that employer. The final factor relates to the retention of DNA samples of those cleared of involvement. Again, the design of a DNA canvass must consider, from the start, what will be done with DNA samples and how that will be communicated to those involved. Paragraph 4 identifies 15 best practices to be included in a policy on DNA canvasses. These are, again, designed to ensure compliance with the Charter, the Ontario Human Rights Code and the Criminal Code of Canada, without compromising effective policing. Subparagraph 4(a) reinforces what police services already acknowledge: DNA canvassing is to be employed as an exceptional investigative tool, rather than routinely. There may be special circumstances that justify the use of this tool even if the prospects of its success are limited: for example, where the crime investigated is very serious and the public is at risk. Nonetheless, in those circumstances the police should continue to be guided by the best practices otherwise identified in paragraph 4. Subparagraph 4(b) highlights key considerations as to whether a DNA canvass is likely to be successful. They also figure prominently in evaluating the legitimacy of a contemplated DNA canvass. For example, based on the description of the perpetrator as a black man in North York, police would be unjustified in requesting DNA from black men in North York. The prospects of success would be highly remote, and equally important, such an approach would justifiably raise concerns about the unfair and illegal targeting of black men. Subparagraph 4(c) reflects that DNA should only be sought from individuals who share the characteristics of the perpetrator, as determined by the investigation. As I have reflected earlier in this Report, reasonable 94 OIPRD Office of the Independent Police Review Director 73
allowance can be made, in this regard, for the imprecision of eyewitness descriptions of the perpetrator. Subparagraph 4(d) emphasizes the importance of protecting the privacy of donors and those who exercise the right not to provide DNA voluntarily. This is of heightened importance for vulnerable employees in their work environment, but is not confined to that scenario. Subparagraph 4(i) more specifically counsels police that the employer or his/her agent should not be present for the DNA canvassing even if it is conducted at the place of employment. Subparagraph 4(e) provides some guidance as to the meaning of a truly informed and voluntary consent. It is drawn, among other things, from existing jurisprudence. A key component is that police advise a potential donor of the requirement that they destroy samples of persons cleared. Subparagraphs 4(f) and 4(k) articulate the best practices that consents should be obtained in writing and audiotaped or videotaped. Subparagraph 4(g) incorporates existing law that the police should not seek the consent of an individual to providing a DNA sample for purposes unrelated to the subject investigation. Subparagraphs 4(h) and 4(i) specifically address vulnerable individuals whose DNA is being sought. It encourages police to involve community- based organizations to facilitate individual access to legal advice. Detective Constable Nolan advised the OIPRD that he had relied upon community leadership to facilitate another sexual assault investigation:
I did another investigation when I first came into the Crime Unit and we had a fairly large investigation in the Amish community. The issue there is that they are not accustomed to police. It was a major sexual assault investigation, a number of people, like the entire community was involved – 35 families, including their leadership levels and all the way down. So what we did there is we met with the leaders of the community because they’re very religious-based people, and we approached everybody through their deacon and we made sure they didn’t say anything to the people about the investigation, basically prepped them for having us come onto their property. We went to their homes to make it more comfortable, and we had that kind of protocol set in place and it worked very well.
It was suggested to him that, in hindsight, the OPP might have utilized the liaison officers affiliated with the temporary workers’ program, SAWP, to assist. He responded in this way: 95 Casting the Net 74 A Review of Ontario Provincial Police Practices for DNA Canvasses
When I re-look at this, that wouldn’t have been such a bad idea to really have, I mean it would be time-consuming, more than what it was I would think. But I mean, to be able to maybe prepare them better for us to come in and explain to them what we’re doing and how we’re going to do things and so forth – somebody as a buffer to kind of help them understand that this is the process and go through this.
Based on the input of stakeholders more familiar with the role of the liaison officers, I do not necessarily agree that the liaison officers would have been well situated to provide or facilitate such advice to individual migrant workers. The point here, reflected in Detective Constable Nolan’s positive feedback, is that community organizations, if available, may well perform the role contemplated in the Model Policy. Subparagraphs 4(l), 4(m) and 4(n) address the retention and destruction of DNA samples provided as a result of DNA canvassing. These best practices also conform to the requirements imposed by the Criminal Code. Finally, subparagraph 4(o) encourages police to proactively work with the community to reduce misunderstandings and promote police- community relations. This would involve not only community organizations which represent individuals or groups whose DNA is being sought, but the local community as a whole. For example, the police can play a critical role in reducing, rather than promoting, stereotypes about vulnerable groups by clearly articulating what they are and are not doing.
Stakeholders’ Submissions on the Draft Policy
As indicated earlier, a large group of stakeholders was asked to comment on a Draft Policy that was circulated to them for discussion purposes. As a result of their feedback, I made changes to the Model Policy on DNA Canvassing now contained in recommendation three. What follows is a brief summary of the submissions made respecting the Draft Policy and my response in italics.
Chief evans, on behalf of the Peel Regional Police Service, felt that the Draft Policy was largely in keeping with her service’s current practices and felt that the finalized policy would be an aid in developing the service’s internal directives on DNA canvassing. She submitted that the terms “vulnerable group,” “status in Canada” and “analogous circumstances” needed greater clarity. 96 OIPRD Office of the Independent Police Review Director 75
In my view, although these terms are not defined in the Model Policy, their content is informed by my entire Report. I also believe that training of police officers should expand upon, and provide examples of the types of vulnerabilities relevant to whether and how DNA canvassing should take place.
Chief mcguire made representations on behalf of the Niagara Regional Police Service. He is also the President of the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police. He agreed that racial profiling must be assiduously avoided, though he felt (based on his knowledge of the OPP investigation at issue) that it did not arise in this case. He felt that, while it is accurate that DNA canvasses are expensive and labour-intensive, their use is an operational decision, made by the chief of police, within the context of all of the pertinent investigative information. He suggested that the monetary and human resource costs were important factors in the operational decision, but did not belong within a set of administrative guidelines. Otherwise, he had no concerns with the Draft Policy. Chief McGuire reiterated that it was important to ensure that consent is informed and voluntary, and agreed that the Draft Policy properly emphasized that the disposition of samples obtained from those cleared in the investigation should be communicated clearly when the sample is obtained and prompt notification should be given once their samples have been destroyed.
I agree with most of what Chief McGuire said. I am not necessarily convinced that the monetary and human resource costs associated with DNA canvassing should be excluded from a policy that identifies factors that properly inform whether the tool will be used in a particular case. I have clarified this point in my commentary. That having been said, there appears to be no disagreement that these are properly considered as factors, regardless of where they are stated.
Deputy Chief Rick Derus, on behalf of the windsor Police Service, indicated that his service has no issues with the Draft Policy. Indeed, the Superintendent of Investigations noted that their service’s use of a DNA canvass in a recent homicide case showed the value in conducting one when most other investigative techniques have run their course. He felt that the Windsor Police Service followed the protocol identified in the Draft Policy very closely. 97 Casting the Net 76 A Review of Ontario Provincial Police Practices for DNA Canvasses
Chief larkin, on behalf of the waterloo Regional Police Service, based on input from five branches of his service, felt that the Draft Policy was in keeping with Waterloo’s views and past practices. His service supports a provincewide standard for DNA canvassing, the consent form to be used and training.
The Ontario Human Rights Commission (OHRC) provided detailed and thoughtful written submissions following receipt of the Draft Policy and the OHRC’s participation in the roundtable. The OHRC emphasized the importance of recommending adoption by Ontario police services of a policy on DNA canvassing, and of the recognition in the Draft Policy that investigators must understand the vulnerabilities of certain groups, such as migrant workers, and how those vulnerabilities should be considered in determining whether and how DNA canvassing should take place.
As is obvious, I agree.
Its specific recommendations about the content of the Draft Policy included the following:
A. It should contain language that recognizes the need for DNA canvasses to be compliant with existing law, including the Charter and the Ontario Human Rights Code, which are paramount.
I have added language to this effect.
B. The definition of a DNA canvass in paragraph 2 should make it clearer that police must have an individual’s informed and voluntary consent, in the absence of reasonable grounds or suspicion.
In my view, this point is captured in subparagraph 3(c).
C. The Draft Policy should add commentary on why phrases such as “absent special circumstances,” “to the extent reasonably practicable” and “absent exigent circumstances” are used. The OHRC was concerned that use of such language could lead to an overly broad interpretation by police services of the policy, as opposed to the prevention of DNA canvasses that violate the Charter and human rights of members of racialized and other marginalized communities. 98 OIPRD Office of the Independent Police Review Director 77
This concern was identified by a number of stakeholders. Rather than provide additional commentary, I have deleted most of these phrases as unnecessary or unsupportable by existing jurisprudence.
D. The OHRC was supportive of references to the police working proactively with community-based organizations to facilitate access to legal advice or to address concerns about vulnerable targets, racial profiling or stereotypical thinking. It suggests that this proactive, trust- building approach be a recommended best practice for the OPP and other police services on an ongoing basis. The OHRC observed that DNA samples were collected by the OPP from males with a significant range of height, weight, hairstyle, facial hair and build, many of whom did not match the description of the suspect except for the characteristic of having a “dark skin colour.” The Human Rights Tribunal of Ontario has found in other policing contexts that where race is seen to be the predominant factor in an investigation, this constitutes racial profiling. In its view, the targeting of male migrant workers was consistent with existing stereotypes about black men and the Ontario migrant worker population, and the requests for DNA samples were coercive given the racialized nature and unique vulnerability of the workers. It urged me to include commentary on racial profiling, why it is important, that it has been identified by the courts and tribunals as a systemic problem in policy, and how it may manifest in police activities. It felt it would be helpful to add definitions of racial profiling and stereotyping to the Draft Policy. It also submitted that my Report should explain why members of racialized and marginalized communities may feel coerced by even the politest requests from police.
I have added a definition of racial profiling to the Model Policy. My analysis and findings address a number of the points made here.
The Canadian Civil liberties Association (CClA) also provided detailed and helpful written submissions following receipt of the Draft Policy and the CCLA’s participation in the roundtable. In its early submissions, the CCLA recommended that police services establish written guidelines surrounding the use and authorization of DNA canvasses. While it appreciated, in its later submissions, that the Draft Policy was responsive to the CCLA’s submission and contained several welcome measures, it felt that the Draft Policy did not go far enough to 99 Casting the Net 78 A Review of Ontario Provincial Police Practices for DNA Canvasses
ensure that DNA canvasses are conducted in a rights-respecting, privacy- protective manner. In its view, DNA canvassing is presumptively coercive and it is a best practice to obtain judicial authorization prior to engaging in DNA canvassing, absent exigent circumstances. At a minimum, it outlined ways in which the Policy should be strengthened:
A. It should specifically state that, where consent is not truly voluntary, a warrantless DNA collection will violate the Charter. If, in the circumstances of a specific case, police cannot adequately mitigate the inherently coercive nature of a request for a person’s DNA sample, they should not resort to this investigative technique.
In my view, the Model Policy now addresses the first point and strikes the appropriate balance in evaluating whether this investigative technique should be resorted to.
B. The phrase “absent exigent circumstances” (or similar language) dilutes important safeguards and should be removed in subparagraphs 4(a), 4(d) and 4(e)(iv).
I have deleted a number of these phrases, though retained the phrase “absent special circumstances” in subparagraph 4(a). I explained why in my commentary.
C. The Policy should explicitly prohibit police from making statements that suggest that individuals are under any moral or legal obligation to comply with voluntary DNA demands.
In my view, the Model Policy adequately addresses this point in subparagraph 4(e). I am not convinced that police should be prohibited from distinguishing between a moral and legal obligation.
D. The Policy should categorically prohibit secondary uses of voluntary DNA samples in subparagraph 4(g).
I agree and have amended this subparagraph accordingly.
E. The Policy should articulate that the destruction of voluntary samples of persons cleared and the purging of relevant records and identifiable information about those individuals are not merely best practices, but the law. 100 OIPRD Office of the Independent Police Review Director 79
I agree and have amended the Policy accordingly.
F. The Draft Policy emphasized that DNA canvassing can give rise to community perceptions of racial profiling and stereotyping, but should state that DNA canvassing may, in fact, constitute unjustifiable racial profiling, in contravention of the Charter and the Ontario Human Rights Code. It should explicitly state that police services should never conduct DNA sweeps in a manner that would constitute illegal and unconstitutional discrimination. It noted that the Code has been interpreted to prohibit the police from casting their investigative net widely on racialized individuals when dealing with a vague suspect description involving race: Maynard v. Toronto Police Services Board, 2012 HRTO 1220.
As indicated, I have strengthened the language in the Model Policy where it reflects statutory or constitutional requirements, not just best practices. I have also added clause 4(c)(ii) in response to this submission.
G. The Policy should apply the same rules to any DNA collected by police surreptitiously from innocent individuals who exercise their right to refuse to provide their DNA on consent.
My response to item (g) requires some elaboration. This item concerns the retention and use of discarded DNA. As reflected in chapter two, the OPP surreptitiously obtained Cooper’s discarded DNA once he refused to provide a DNA sample voluntarily. Jurisprudence supports the legal entitlement of the police to obtain discarded DNA under these particular circumstances without prior judicial authorization. There is a Criminal Code of Canada requirement that the DNA samples voluntarily provided by individuals who are cleared must be destroyed. There is no similar requirement for the discarded, but collected, DNA of individuals who are cleared.
The CCLA submitted that the discarded DNA of cleared individuals should be treated no differently than DNA voluntarily provided by cleared individuals. Otherwise, individuals cleared of any wrongdoing are prejudiced against simply because they exercised their legal right to refuse to voluntarily provide a DNA sample. 101 Casting the Net 80 A Review of Ontario Provincial Police Practices for DNA Canvasses
It said this:
The collection, retention and data-banking of “discarded” suspect DNA is highly problematic and, in CCLA’s view, renders DNA sweeps unconstitutional. The police approach a relatively large number of individuals. They variously suggest, either by public announcement or directly to the targeted individuals, that individuals have a moral duty to comply with the request, that people with nothing to hide are expected to comply, and that those who do not comply will face additional police scrutiny. Those who do not comply do, almost invariably, face additional police scrutiny: they are surveilled, and frequently police follow those individuals with the hope of obtaining “discarded” DNA from a cup, tissue, or other personal item. That DNA is subsequently tested – and retained for future purposes regardless of whether it constituted a match in this particular case. Those who exercise their right not to share DNA with the police, therefore, are in fact unwittingly subjecting themselves to a more privacy-intrusive DNA collection scheme. In CCLA’s view, such practices constitute an unreasonable search and seizure under s. 8 of the Charter.
I understand that discarded DNA samples are retained in a database, even if the individuals to whom they relate are cleared.
Despite the CCLA’s submissions, I am not convinced that the retention of discarded DNA necessarily renders DNA canvassing unconstitutional. Moreover, I am not persuaded that the mandate of this systemic review justifies recommendations on the discarded DNA of cleared individuals, particularly where there was no instance in the investigation under consideration where an innocent person’s DNA was obtained in this way. As well, stakeholders had little or no opportunity to address this issue. Any amendment to the Criminal Code falls within federal jurisdiction.
That being said, I too have difficulty with the proposition that the CFS or the police should retain the DNA of cleared individuals, whether voluntarily provided or discarded. Even in the absence of federal legislative change, there is no impediment to Ontario police services adopting such an approach and incorporating it into their policies. I invite them to give serious consideration to the merits of such an approach. 102 OIPRD Office of the Independent Police Review Director 81
Justicia for migrant workers (J4mw) regarded the investigative technique used by the OPP in the subject case as racially motivated. It believes that the police should be called upon to admit guilt for the manner in which the canvassing was conducted. Moreover, the migrant workers whom J4MW has contacted want clear answers on whether their DNA was destroyed and whether it has been maintained in a database or shared with other agencies. It submits that it is important that steps are taken to disseminate information to the individual migrant workers that their DNA has been destroyed, if it has been. J4MW’s complaint to the OIPRD was not brought in the names of individual workers to prevent retribution. In its view, subparagraphs 4(h) and 4(l), which contemplate the potential involvement of organizations such as J4MW, would lead to a conflict of interest for it. Working with police agencies to cooperate in or facilitate a DNA sweep would have negative consequences for its advocacy efforts and cause irreparable harm to its relations with migrant workers. J4MW shared the concerns with DNA canvassing that are set out in the American study of Samuel Walker, which I referred to in chapter four of this Report.
For the reasons already given, I do not find that the DNA canvassing employed by the OPP was racially motivated. Nonetheless, I accept that the migrant workers are entitled both to clear answers on whether their DNA was destroyed, maintained in a database or shared, and on the importance of providing information to individual migrant workers on what has happened to their DNA samples. The findings contained in chapter two of this Report, together with recommendation five, answer these concerns.
In my view, subparagraphs 4(h) and 4(i) do not necessarily place advocacy organizations in a conflict of interest or, properly understood, impair their relationship with migrant workers. Such organizations may play an important role in facilitating access to legal advice without compromising their position as advocates. They can work with and assist migrant workers in understanding their rights and provide support generally from an advocacy perspective. Similarly, they can work with police to ensure that employers are uninvolved or minimally involved in facilitating interviews with the police, again without compromising their position as advocates. I would think that the workers would welcome those kinds of involvement. However, I recognize that it is for J4MW to 103 Casting the Net 82 A Review of Ontario Provincial Police Practices for DNA Canvasses
decide, not me, whether it is in a conflict of interest and whether certain activities would impair its relationship with migrant workers.
The metro Toronto Chinese and Southeast Asian legal Clinic was concerned that the Draft Policy gave credence and legitimacy to the use of DNA canvassing, rather than discouraging its use. It felt that the wording “reasonable prospect to advance the investigation” was too inclusive. It also questioned the role that community organizations should play in facilitating DNA canvassing.
DNA canvassing is a legal, and in some circumstances, viable investigative technique used by the police to try to solve a crime. In this case, Henry Cooper was caught, arrested and prosecuted thanks to a DNA canvass. Thus, I am not of the view that DNA canvasses should never be used. However, the content of this Report and the recommendations I have proposed make it very clear that DNA canvasses come with many costs, social and financial. It is for that reason that the recommendations propose a fairly narrow and restrictive approach to the use of this investigative technique.
In some circumstances, community organizations can serve a useful role in ensuring that people being asked to provide a sample of their DNA understand the nature and implications of such a request, as well as their rights. Whether engagement with a community organization is appropriate is dictated by the particular circumstances of the case and must be left to the discretion of those involved. There is no hard and fast rule to guide the police and community on this issue. It depends on the specific context.
The migrant workers Alliance for Change (mwAC) forcefully questioned the scope of discretion for police contained in the Draft Policy. Based upon its ongoing dialogue with affected workers, it expressed concern about racialized policing, the absence of trust in the police and accordingly, the unlikelihood of truly voluntary consent, and the inappropriateness of employer involvement in the process. It sought accountability for racist policing, and the need to distinguish between mere perception of stereotypical police thinking and the actual experience of racism. It also submitted that the vulnerability of these workers, and how to address their feelings of coercion, should be clearly addressed. It too emphasized that, as an organization, it works with migrant workers to facilitate legal counsel, but would be hard pressed to “help” police by facilitating a racist practice. 104 OIPRD Office of the Independent Police Review Director 83
I have already addressed a number of these submissions in earlier comments. I agree with the importance of distinguishing between perception of, and actual, police stereotypical thinking and have done so in my Report and in the Model Policy, though I did not agree with the ultimate inferences drawn by MWAC here.
MWAC referred to the unlikelihood of truly voluntary consent by migrant workers. Several stakeholders advanced the proposition that there can never be non-coercive participation by migrant workers or other vulnerable groups in DNA canvassing. I respectfully disagree. In the OPP’s investigation, it was in the community’s interest, including the migrant worker community, that a sexual predator in their midst be identified, arrested and prosecuted. Some stakeholders, while appropriately emphasizing the vulnerability of migrant workers and the importance of ensuring that they are not dealt with in a discriminatory or coercive fashion, gave insufficient attention to this community’s interest in removing a sexual predator from amongst them. In my view, the adoption of the best practices contained in the Model Policy can lead to DNA canvassing that addresses all of the concerns identified.
The Criminal lawyers’ Association (ClA) disagreed with comments that the Draft Policy inappropriately legitimized DNA canvassing. In its view, the Draft Policy represented a welcome recommendation. The reality is that this investigative technique is used and can produce positive results. The CLA was impressed with the language contained in the Draft Policy, with the exception of unnecessary use of the phrase “absent exigent circumstances.”
The submissions of the CLA contributed to my decision to remove several such phrases.
The OPP and the Toronto Police Service also provided meaningful input at the roundtable. The OPP representative agreed that the law is clear that samples voluntarily obtained to advance one investigation could not be used by police for other purposes. He agreed with the CLA that there was no need for the policy to qualify that principle through the use of the phrase “absent exigent circumstances.” Both the OPP and the Toronto Police Service emphasized that DNA canvassing (a term preferable to DNA sweeps) is an acceptable investigative technique. More importantly, police are trying to solve a 105 Casting the Net 84 A Review of Ontario Provincial Police Practices for DNA Canvasses
serious crime and bring the perpetrator to justice. They have a duty to the victim and the community to do so. They need to work with community organizations to accomplish those goals. Indeed, the OPP had concerns about the inclusion of human and financial resources as factors to be considered. It would not want a victim of sexual assault to feel that financial cost stood in the way of solving a serious crime.
I agree with these submissions, and believe I have incorporated them into my recommendations.
Training
Recommendation 4: Training should be offered both by the Ontario Police College and by applicable police services as to the Model Policy on DNA Canvassing. It should be offered to new recruits and officers who might participate in or design a DNA canvass. Such training should include:
A. The factors that should inform whether a DNA canvass is conducted and, if conducted, how it should be conducted B. Best practices and why they constitute best practices C. The law respecting informed and voluntary consents, and racial profiling D. Case examples as to how a DNA canvass may be structured to conform to best practices and avoid either the perception or reality of racial profiling, stereotyping or discriminatory conduct E. Some basic understanding of the vulnerabilities of certain groups, such as migrant workers and the racialized community, and how those vulnerabilities should be considered in designing an investigation and in promoting understanding between the police and affected communities 106 OIPRD Office of the Independent Police Review Director 85
The OHRC and other stakeholders supported this recommendation. The OHRC suggested that the police invite input and possible participation from community-based organizations that represent vulnerable communities, as well as others who have expertise in human rights and policing issues. It felt the recommended training should include the following areas:
A. Best practices consistent with the Charter and the Ontario Human Rights Code B. The law respecting racial profiling C. How requests by police for voluntary DNA sampling have a disproportionate impact on racialized groups and marginalized communities D. Case examples of how DNA canvasses can be perceived and/or result in racial profiling
The OHRC submitted that the training be provided for new recruits, current officers, investigators and supervisors.
I agree with these suggestions and have incorporated them into this recommendation.
More generally, the OHRC welcomed recent comments by the OPP Commissioner on the lack of tolerance for racism. It recommended that the OPP develop and implement distinct policies and procedures that clearly prohibit racial profiling, and collect race-based publicly accessible data on police stops, searches and DNA sampling practices to identify, monitor, evaluate and reduce racial profiling. It maintained that the OPP should actively recruit, select, promote and retain people from racialized groups, Indigenous communities and other under-represented groups and that the MCSCS provide appropriate direction to the OPP on all of the areas covered by the OHRC’s proposals.
While I do find a number of these general suggestions by the OHRC to be commendable, they extend somewhat beyond the scope of this systemic review. Although not couched as a formal recommendation, I do urge the authorities to examine current practices and determine whether any police services across Ontario collect race-based publicly accessible data on practices that include DNA canvassing and whether all police services, in consultation with appropriate experts, should do so. 107 Casting the Net 86 A Review of Ontario Provincial Police Practices for DNA Canvasses
Destruction of DNA Samples
Recommendation 5: The Ontario Provincial Police should publicly report, within 120 days of release of this Report, on:
A. Whether all DNA samples taken from individuals other than the perpetrator, and records that contain the results of forensic DNA analysis, have been destroyed or, in relation to electronic records, access to the results has been permanently removed and what, if any, steps have been taken to so inform those affected B. What steps will be taken to inform those affected (if such steps have not been taken to date) of the actions described above
The OPP report shall not include information that might lead to the identification of individuals whose DNA was taken.
The need for the OPP to report back to the workers as to the disposition of their DNA was a common theme in the submissions of a number of stakeholders. The Waterloo Police Service noted that the OPP report should also not include information that might lead to the identification of anyone who refused to provide DNA.
The Consent to Provide Biological Samples
Recommendation 6: The Ontario Provincial Police, the Ministry of Community Safety and Correctional Services and the Ministry of the Attorney General should re-evaluate, in accordance with this Report, the content of the Consent to Provide Biological Samples form.
In my view, these agencies are better situated, with the benefit of my recommendations, to consider the specific language that might be contained in a revised consent form. I do see several deficiencies in the current form. Most significantly, it is my view that the consent should 108 OIPRD Office of the Independent Police Review Director 87
explicitly reflect not only that the voluntarily provided DNA will be destroyed, but that it will not be used for any purpose other than the identified investigation and that the consent authorizes no other such use.
The Destruction of, or Removal of Access to, Records Containing the Results of Forensic DNA Analysis Pertaining to Cleared Individuals
Recommendation 7: The policies and procedures surrounding the destruction of or removal of access to records containing the results of forensic DNA analysis pertaining to cleared individuals should be reviewed. Clarity is needed as to what records are to be destroyed or made inaccessible and what records are to be retained. Consideration of this issue should be informed by the underlying rationale for Subsection 487.09(3) of the Criminal Code, the privacy interests of the affected parties and the need for efficient and effective police investigations.
In my view, the relevant ministries and police services would be well advised to consult with affected stakeholders, most particularly the Office of the Information and Privacy Commissioner, in reviewing existing policies and procedures. It is also important that the resulting policies and procedures be transparent and understandable. I defy most readers to understand precisely what records are currently subject to the existing destruction policy and what records are to be retained and for how long. 109
CHAPTER SEVEN Conclusion
DNA canvassing may not be frequently used in police investigations in Ontario; however, when it is used it is highly public. It engages numerous members of the community. It asks those community members to trust the police to take their DNA, the source of highly personal information about them, use it for a single purpose and then destroy it, if they are cleared of involvement. That trust does not always come easily – especially for those who are vulnerable, who have experienced racism in their lives or in the lives of others close to them. As I said at the outset, policing relies heavily on public acceptance and a shared commitment to justice. It is important that policing be free from racism, racial profiling, bias and discrimination. It is also important that it be perceived that way by the community. Some may focus, whether in agreement or disagreement, on my finding that the OPP officers were not motivated by racial prejudice or guided by stereotypical assumptions about persons of colour or migrant workers. Others may focus on my finding that the decision to seek DNA samples from all migrant workers of colour, regardless of their physical 110 OIPRD Office of the Independent Police Review Director 89
characteristics, could well have had an impact on the migrant workers’ sense of vulnerability, lack of security and fairness. Both perspectives have validity. But ultimately, the findings give context to important recommendations designed to promote effective, bias-free policing and enhance police-community relations, particularly with those who are vulnerable. I believe that is the common goal of every stakeholder who participated in this systemic review. And for that, I am grateful. 111
Appendices
APPeNDIx A
Systemic Review of OPP Practices for voluntary DNA Sampling
Terms of Reference
The review will examine the following:
• OPP policies, procedures, standards and practices as they relate to obtaining voluntary DNA samples from specific groups of individuals during investigations • Processes used by the OPP to investigate cases that rely on DNA evidence, including sexual assaults • Supervision of the investigative process through the OPP command structure and direction given for processes 112 OIPRD Office of the Independent Police Review Director 91
• OPP policies, procedures and practices relating to racial profiling and the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms • T raining provided to OPP officers regarding investigative policing standards, obtaining DNA samples on a voluntary basis, racial profiling and the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms • Case law, reports, reviews, articles and documents relating to gathering DNA samples, voluntary participation in that process, racial profiling in relation to DNA collection and privacy issues surrounding the voluntary provision of DNA • The level and type of police involvement with employers in relation to employee participation in police investigations, and specifically pertaining to employers of migrant workers 113 Casting the Net 92 A Review of Ontario Provincial Police Practices for DNA Canvasses
APPeNDIx B
Draft Policy Discussion Paper and Draft Policy
November 23, 2015
Discussion Paper Issued for OIPRD Roundtable on Draft DNA Sweep Policy
As you know, the OIPRD is convening a roundtable discussion with stakeholders in connection with its systemic review of police practices, procedures and protocols concerning DNA sweeps. The Roundtable will take place on November 30, 2015, from 2 p.m. – 4 p.m. at the OIPRD offices at 655 Bay St., Toronto, ON 10th Floor. Those attending the roundtable are requested to sign in with reception upon arrival at the OIPRD. The Director’s final systemic review report will identify the issues raised by interested parties and, most importantly, make recommendations. One likely recommendation is that the OPP, and similarly situated police services in Ontario, develop a policy to govern how and when DNA sweeps are conducted. There is no existing OPP policy that governs how and when DNA sweeps are to be conducted. Even when a DNA sweep is conducted in good faith, it must recognize the potential vulnerabilities of the community which is the subject of the sweep, and proactively address those vulnerabilities and negate perceptions of racial profiling or stereotypical thinking while not compromising the effectiveness of the investigation. Put another way, policing relies heavily on public acceptance and a shared commitment for justice. It is important that policing not only be free from racism and discrimination, but be perceived as such by the community. That is why, in this context, it may be crucial that a policy be created by the OPP and similarly situated police services to identify and ensure best practices. What follows is a draft policy for discussions purposes. In the final report, recommendations will be accompanied by commentary. We have provided an example of the type of commentary that might be included in a final report. At the roundtable, counsel for the Director will provide a brief overview of the draft policy, and what prompted its content and wording. We will then facilitate a discussion not only of the draft policy, but of other 114 OIPRD Office of the Independent Police Review Director 93
recommendations that might be contemplated in a final report. Your input is important. The roundtable may include representatives from the following organizations: the Canadian Civil Liberties Association, the Ontario Human Rights Commission, the African Canadian Legal Clinic, the Metro Toronto Chinese and Southeast Asian Legal Clinic, Justicia for Migrant Workers, Migrant Worker’s Alliance for Change, the Criminal Lawyers Association, the OPP, and Toronto Police Service. This draft is for discussion purposes only and not intended for wider dissemination beyond your organizations at this time. We look forward to seeing everyone at the roundtable.
The Draft Policy
The policy adopted by the OPP and similarly situated police services should conform to or be guided by the draft policy immediately below.
Preamble
1. This policy outlines best practices in connection with “DNA sweeps.” Members of the police service are expected to be guided by, and comply with, the best practices identified in this policy, absent special circumstances.
2. A “DNA sweep” refers to the police investigative tool of seeking to obtain a DNA sample from a group of individuals without reasonable grounds or suspicion to believe that any particular individual within the group is the perpetrator. The group of individuals may be identified based on potential access to a crime scene or more typically, upon characteristics, such as race, shared with the perpetrator.
3. In deciding whether a DNA sweep will be conducted, and if conducted, how it will be conducted, investigators should be mindful, among other things, of the following:
a. DNA sweeps involve the expenditure of substantial human and financial resources both by police services and forensic laboratories 115 Casting the Net 94 A Review of Ontario Provincial Police Practices for DNA Canvasses
b. The identification of a group of individuals based on race or colour or analogous identifiers may reinforce the impression that the police are stereotyping people of a certain identifiable group, and as a consequence, create or exacerbate tensions between the community and police that community policing and other initiatives are designed to overcome
c. DNA sweeps must be conducted in ways that are compliant with existing law, including the requirement that DNA samples be obtained from individuals, absent a court order or probable grounds, based on their informed and voluntary consent
d. Some groups of individuals are particularly vulnerable based, for example, on the nature of their employment or status in Canada, requiring heightened sensitivity by police to how their informed and voluntary consent should be obtained
e. Absent special circumstances, the retention of DNA samples of individuals cleared of involvement in the crime under investigation by DNA testing or other investigative work undermines the rights of those who voluntarily provide such samples
Best practices
4. The following best practices should guide decisions as to whether and how a DNA sweep should be conducted, and what steps should follow the completion of the investigation:
a. Given the costs (both in the expenditure of resources and in police- community relations) associated with DNA sweeps, they should not be used as an investigative tool, absent special circumstances, unless (i) there is a reasonable prospect that they will further the investigation in a meaningful way and (ii) the seriousness of the offence under investigation justifies the associated costs.
b. In determining whether there is a reasonable prospect that a DNA sweep will further the investigation in a meaningful way, the police should consider, among other things: (i) how many individuals might reasonably be regarded as falling within the class of potential perpetrators and whether the number of such individuals can even 116 OIPRD Office of the Independent Police Review Director 95
be determined; (ii) the specificity or lack thereof of any description of the perpetrator; (iii) the extent to which the police have access to all or the vast majority of those individuals who might reasonably be regarded as falling within the class of potential perpetrators; and (iv) the available of alternative investigative techniques.
c. The group of individuals whose DNA will be requested pursuant to a DNA sweep must share the characteristics of the perpetrator, as determined by the investigation. Reasonable allowance can be made, in this regard, for the imprecision in eyewitness descriptions of the perpetrator.
d. Police should protect the privacy of donors and those who exercise the right not to provide DNA voluntarily. This means, among other things, that (i) an individual’s decision whether to provide a DNA sample should not be unnecessarily shared with the individual’s employer or third parties unrelated to the investigation; and (ii) requests for voluntary DNA samples should be made by the police, to the extent reasonably practicable, in private.
e. Any consent to provide a DNA sample must be informed and voluntary. This means, among other things, that (i) the police should advise the individual that he or she is not required to provide a DNA sample; (ii) the police should not advise the individual that they can obtain a warrant to secure the DNA sample if it is not provided voluntarily; (iii) the police should not coerce or threaten the individual to obtain a DNA sample; (iv) absent exigent circumstances, the police should advise the individual that he or she may retain or consult a lawyer prior to deciding whether to provide a DNA sample voluntarily; (v) the police should advise the individual how any DNA sample will be taken and by whom; (vi) the police should advise the individual what use will potentially be made of the DNA sample and what will be done with the DNA sample once the investigation is completed.
f. Consents should be obtained in writing. The written consent should accurately reflect, in plain language, among other things: (i) the fact that the individual is not required to provide a DNA sample; and (ii) the use that will potentially be made of the DNA sample and what will be done with the DNA sample once the investigation 117 Casting the Net 96 A Review of Ontario Provincial Police Practices for DNA Canvasses
is completed. Absent exigent circumstances, the consent should specifically reflect that the DNA sample will only be used for the purposes of the subject investigation and for no other purposes and that it will not be retained if, as a result of DNA testing or other investigative work, the individual is cleared as a suspect in the subject investigation.
g. Absent exigent circumstances, police should not seek the consent of an individual to providing a DNA sample for purposes unrelated to the subject investigation. If the police wish to use the DNA sample for purposes unrelated to the subject investigation, this must be explained to the individual and reflected in the written consent.
h. Where the group of individuals whose DNA is being sought is a vulnerable group by reason of the nature of their employment, status in Canada or analogous circumstances, the police should involve, if reasonably practicable, community based organizations which represent the group’s interests to facilitate access by group members to legal advice.
i. When an individual who has given a voluntary DNA sample is cleared as a suspect in the subject investigation, the individual should be notified, if possible, of that fact, either forthwith or as soon as reasonably practicable thereafter if notification forthwith could reasonably compromise the ongoing investigation. Such notification should either be in writing or, at the very least, contemporaneously recorded by police.
j. No DNA sample provided voluntarily by an individual pursuant to a DNA sweep should be retained by any criminal justice agency, including but not limited to the applicable police service and the forensic laboratory which analyzed the sample, where the individual has been cleared as a suspect in the subject investigation. The disposal of such sample should take place as soon as reasonably practicable. The individual should be notified, if possible, of the disposal of the DNA sample as soon as reasonably practicable after the disposal has taken place.
k. The police should purge all records and identifiable information pertaining to the individual who has been cleared as a suspect in 118 OIPRD Office of the Independent Police Review Director 97
the subject investigation except to the extent such records and identifiable information need to be maintained to document the subject investigation.
l. Where the group of individuals that is targeted by a DNA sweep is vulnerable or where the DNA sweep could create the perception of racial profiling or stereotypical thinking, the police should proactively work with community based organizations to address these issues, reduce misunderstandings, and enhance police- community relations.
Illustration of Draft Commentary on the Proposed Policy
Paragraph 2 contains a definition of a DNA sweep. The most important aspect of the definition is that the police need not have reasonable grounds or suspicion that a particular individual within the group is the perpetrator. This is consistent with Canadian jurisprudence that permits DNA samples to be taken from individuals in the absence of reasonable grounds or suspicion based on the donor’s informed and voluntary consent. Paragraph 3 articulates factors that should inform an investigative decision as to whether a DNA sweep will be conducted and, if conducted, how it will be conducted. The first two factors address the “costs,” in the broadest sense, associated with DNA sweeps. DNA sweeps involve the expenditure of substantial human and financial resources both by police services and forensic laboratories. The identification of a group of individuals based on race, colour or analogous identifiers may reinforce perceptions of stereotyping by the police and exacerbate tensions in the community. These concerns are captured in Walker, S., & Harrington, M., Police DNA “Sweeps”: A Proposed Model Policy on Police Requests for DNA Samples (July 2005). As part of a University of Nebraska initiative, the authors developed a model policy on the use of DNA sweeps. The State of Nebraska ultimately legislated in this area. The authors said this on the issue of costs:
Given the strong evidence about ineffectiveness [of DNA sweeps] as an investigative tool, they represent a serious waste of resources. The most serious waste involves the inefficient use of police officer time. The collection of large numbers of DNA samples also overloads forensic laboratories… It is a serious mistake, therefore, to further 119 Casting the Net 98 A Review of Ontario Provincial Police Practices for DNA Canvasses
burden laboratories with additional samples arising from sweeps that are highly unproductive. Tests are also expensive, and consequently impose a dollar cost on already financially strapped agencies.
DNA sweeps also impose costs on communities affected and on police-community relations. Particularly in African American and Hispanic communities, they reinforce the impression that the police are stereotyping people of color, and as a consequence aggravate long-standing tensions that community policing and other efforts are designed to overcome.” Pp. 5
The literature certainly supports, at least anecdotally, in the United States and in Canada some high-profile failures associated with the use of DNA sweeps. As well, it is obvious that DNA sweeps do involve the expenditure of valuable human resources. We know that the Centre of Forensic Sciences is severely taxed with requests that it must prioritize for DNA and other forensic testing. The literature also supports, particularly in the United States, the concern that DNA sweeps targeting members of a racialized community can elevate police-community tensions. The draft policy does not purport to restrict DNA sweeps based on the costs associated with them, but ensure that decision-makers are mindful of these costs when structuring their investigations. If, for example, the group of individuals which might include the perpetrator is so broad that a successful DNA sweep is unlikely, the costs associated with the undertaking should figure prominently in whether the sweep should even take place. The third and fourth factors contained in paragraph six relate to the issue of informed and voluntary consent. The legality of a DNA sweep will be largely dependent on whether DNA was obtained pursuant to truly informed and voluntary consents. Some groups of individuals are particularly vulnerable based on their employment situation or status in Canada. Police must be mindful of such vulnerabilities when deciding how consents will be sought and obtained. This is not to be regarded as some “indulgence” for some members of the community, and not others. Nor can it fairly be regarded as undermining the efficacy of the police investigation. On the contrary, it simply recognizes, as does existing jurisprudence, that a determination whether a truly informed and voluntary consent was obtained is fact specific. An employer asked to consent will likely be differently situated than a migrant worker asked to consent in the presence of that employer. 120 OIPRD Office of the Independent Police Review Director 99
The final factor relates to the retention of DNA samples of those cleared of involvement. Again, the design of a DNA sweep must consider, from the start, what will be done with DNA samples and how that will be communicated to those involved.
Other recommendations might include the following. These are not intended to be exhaustive:
Recommendation:
Training should be offered both by the Ontario Police College and by applicable police services as to the policy on DNA sweeps. Such training should include:
(a) the factors that should inform whether a DNA sweep is conducted and, if conducted, how it should be conducted (b) best practices and why they constitute best practices (c) the law respecting informed and voluntary consents (d) case examples as to how a DNA sweep may be structured to conform to best practices (e) some basic understanding of the vulnerabilities of certain groups, such as migrant workers and the racialized community, and how those vulnerabilities should be considered in designing an investigation and in promoting understanding between the police and affected communities 121 Casting the Net 100 A Review of Ontario Provincial Police Practices for DNA Canvasses
Destruction of DNA Samples
Recommendation:
The Ontario Provincial Police should publicly report, within 120 days of release of this report, on:
(a) whether all DNA samples taken from individuals other than the perpetrator, have been destroyed and what, if any steps, have been taken to so inform those affected (b) what steps will be taken to inform those affected (if such steps have not been taken to date) that the DNA samples have been or will be destroyed
The Report shall not include information that might lead to the identification of individuals whose DNA was taken.
The Consent to Provide Biological Samples
Recommendation:
The Ontario Provincial Police, the Ministry of Community Safety and Correctional Services and the Ministry of the Attorney General should re-evaluate, in accordance with this Report, the content of the Consent to Provide Biological Samples.
Thank you in advance for your participation and ongoing interest in the issues identified in this systemic review. 122 OIPRD Office of the Independent Police Review Director 101
APPeNDIx C
Organizations that Participated in or made Submissions to the Policy Roundtable
African-Canadian Legal Clinic Canadian Civil Liberties Association Criminal Lawyers’ Association Justicia for Migrant Workers Metro Toronto Chinese and Southeast Asian Legal Clinic Migrant Workers Alliance for Change Ministry of the Attorney General Crown Law Office – Criminal Niagara Regional Police Service (Chief McGuire) Ontario Human Rights Commission Ontario Provincial Police Peel Regional Police Service (Chief Evans) Toronto Police Service Waterloo Regional Police Service (Chief Larkin) Windsor Police Service (Deputy Chief Derus)
We are also grateful to the Centre of Forensic Sciences. Although it did not make formal submissions, it provided the review with much-needed information about the processes in place. 123 Casting the Net 102 A Review of Ontario Provincial Police Practices for DNA Canvasses 124 125 Casting the Net 104 A Review of Ontario Provincial Police Practices for DNA Canvasses
Office of the Independent Police Review Director 655 Bay Street, 10th Floor Toronto, Ontario M7A 2T4 www.oiprd.on.ca
127 Casting the Net 2 A Review of Ontario Provincial Police Practices for DNA Canvasses
Executive Summary and Recommendations
Overview she fell backward striking her head against the brick wall of the house. Then he threw her to the Bayham is a rural municipality in southwestern ground and dragged her into the house. Ontario. It lies south of Tillsonburg on the eastern Inside, the attacker shoved ms. Doe to edge of Elgin County. Roads trace a grid across the floor on her stomach. As she continued to orchards and farmland that extend down to Lake struggle, he straddled her, pulled her head back, Erie. Jane Doe1 lived alone on one of those roads. wrapped a cloth around her neck and started At about 9 p.m. on October 19, 2013, she to strangle her. She was choking so she told stepped onto her porch to have a cigarette. She him she would stop fighting. He blindfolded her sat down on a lawn chair as she lit her cigarette. and tied her wrists. He told her he had come to Suddenly, a gloved hand grabbed her from murder her, but instead was going to rape her. He behind, covering her mouth. When she tried to then sexually assaulted her. He was in her home stand up and turn toward her attacker, he spun for about 45 minutes. Before leaving, he removed her around and thrust a large knife in front of the original restraints from her wrists, gagged her face. She continued to struggle, putting her her and used rope to tie her hands and feet. He cigarette out on his chest. He pushed her and threatened to murder her if she called the police.
1 There is a court-imposed publication ban to protect the victim’s identity. 128 OIPRD Office of the Independent Police Review Director 3
She called the Ontario Provincial Police consents obtained were truly informed and (OPP) nonetheless. She described her attacker voluntary, particularly given the vulnerability of as one of the migrant workers brought in to the migrant worker community. Concerns were harvest the crops. He was wearing a grey also expressed about the retention and potential hoodie pulled down over his eyes, blue-green future use of DNA samples taken from workers gloves with a rubbery coating and dark cotton who had no connection to the crime. These and work pants. He was between 5'10'' and 6' tall, other concerns were reflected in a complaint filed muscular and possibly in his mid to late 20s. with the Office of the Independent Police Director He was black, fairly dark, with no facial hair and (OIPRD) by Justicia for Migrant Workers, and in had a low voice with a heavy accent, which she submissions from various stakeholders in support thought to be Jamaican. of the complaint. An intensive search for Jane Doe’s attacker The Independent Police Review Director followed. ultimately, the OPP arrested Henry (Director) concluded that these important Cooper, a migrant worker from Trinidad. He questions were best addressed through pleaded guilty to sexual assault with a weapon, a systemic review of the OPP policies, forcible confinement and uttering death threats. procedures, standards and practices for He was sentenced to seven years in prison. conducting DNA canvasses and obtaining DNA Although the police investigation resulted in on consent from vulnerable groups during the successful arrest and prosecution of Henry criminal investigations. Section 57 of the Police Cooper,2 questions were raised about how the Services Act gives the Director the power investigation had been conducted. Police decided to examine and review issues of a systemic that DNA samples would be requested from nature that may give rise to public complaints virtually every migrant worker in the vicinity. and make recommendations to the minister of This investigative tool is known in Canada as a Community Safety and Correctional Services “DNA canvass.” The migrant workers were all (mCSCS), the Attorney General, chiefs of men of colour. The fact that the DNA canvass police, police services boards and any other targeted only migrant workers of colour raised body. A systemic review is not designed to important questions about whether the police find individual misconduct, but to identify and were engaged in racial profiling, discriminatory address larger issues of systemic importance. practices and/or perpetuating stereotypes about In conducting this review, the OIPRD the targeted community. examined the public complaint that was filed When the DNA canvass was being conducted, and interviewed 10 officers involved in the the police did not have reasonable grounds to investigation as well as civilian witnesses, believe that a particular migrant worker was the including 32 of the migrant workers. It reviewed attacker. Accordingly, DNA samples could only officers’ notes and statements, minutes of be legally obtained directly from donors with meetings, occurrence reports, audio and video their informed and voluntary consent. Important recordings of interviews, completed consent questions were also raised about whether the forms and questionnaires, photographs, forensic
2 Cooper refused to provide a DNA sample voluntarily. So the police obtained his discarded DNA, leading to his identification as the perpetrator. 129 Casting the Net 4 A Review of Ontario Provincial Police Practices for DNA Canvasses
evidence, OPP policies, procedures, practices significant police resources to collect group and training materials. The OIPRD requested samples and incurring substantial financial and received extremely helpful submissions from costs for laboratories to analyze multiple stakeholders and members of the public. The samples. Finally, and perhaps most significantly OIPRD also examined relevant jurisprudence in the context of this review, questions have and literature from inside and outside Canada. It been raised when this investigative technique also conducted a roundtable to obtain feedback focuses on a racialized community. It is argued from a number of stakeholders on potential that the authorities engage in racial profiling recommendations for change. A draft Policy on by stereotyping people of colour and, as a DNA Canvassing was also distributed to many consequence, aggravate long-standing tensions stakeholders, including a number of Ontario that community policing and other efforts police services other than the OPP, for their are designed to overcome. These criticisms feedback. All of the contributing stakeholders are have led to submissions, in Canada and the identified in the Director’s Report. They made an United States, that DNA canvassing not be invaluable contribution to the review. permitted without prior judicial authorization, or be substantially narrowed or modified. The Director’s recommendations directly address Pre-existing COnCerns these and other concerns. abOut Dna Canvasses
The use of DNA canvasses as an investigative summary Of finDings technique has attracted criticism, most notably in the united States. Critics cite the inherent For the reasons reflected in his Report, the power imbalance between the police and those Director was satisfied that the OPP investigation whose DNA is requested, coupled with the was not motivated by racial prejudice, as alleged heightened police scrutiny associated with a in the complaint to the OIPRD. refusal to cooperate, to challenge DNA canvasses The police were investigating a violent sex as presumptively coercive. Second, they raise assault. A sexual predator remained at large. concerns about the use and misuse of DNA Based on the victim’s description of her attacker, samples provided by individuals cleared through the frequent use of the road in front of her home forensic DNA analysis. Third, they question by local migrant workers, and the demographics whether DNA canvassing represents a cost- in this rural community, the police had ample efficient use of resources to solve crimes. grounds to believe that the perpetrator was At least one American study has concluded one of the local migrant workers of colour. The that DNA “sweeps” (as they are described in attacker had potentially left his DNA at the scene the United States) are generally ineffective in of the crime. He had also brought items to the identifying the perpetrator. There are numerous crime scene that might contain his DNA. There instances cited where DNA canvassing has were significant time constraints on a thorough produced no real success, while using up investigation. The majority of the migrant workers 130 OIPRD Office of the Independent Police Review Director 5
were scheduled to leave Canada and return to DNA on these items might have indirectly led to their home countries in short order. Some had discovery of the perpetrator. already departed. In the circumstances, the police In the Director’s view, this belief, while decided that a DNA canvass of local migrant genuinely held at the time, provided a poor workers would be an important investigative tool. rationale to justify taking DNA samples from The Director took no issue with that decision. every migrant worker of colour. It was a relatively Indeed, the decision to conduct the DNA canvass remote possibility that any male DNA profile enabled the police to focus on, and ultimately found at the crime scene would not belong to apprehend, the perpetrator. the perpetrator and that the perpetrator had However, the DNA canvass in this case was brought someone else’s shoelaces and strip of designed to obtain DNA from every migrant clothing to the crime scene. If that possibility was worker of colour, regardless of his age, height, a realistic one, the Director would have expected weight, the presence or absence of facial hair the police to take other investigative steps when or other defining characteristics. The Director interviewing the workers. recognized that, in some respects, Ms. Doe’s While the Director was satisfied that, in description lacked detail. The composite drawing the particular circumstances of this case, the prepared by the police may or may not have overly broad DNA canvassing was not based closely resembled the attacker. As well, the on stereotypical assumptions about migrant frailties of eyewitness descriptions meant that workers or persons of colour, it is perfectly investigators could reasonably assume that understandable why it would have been perceived features of Ms. Doe’s description might not be as such by members of the community and accurate. As well, the police were under severe public interest organizations. Regardless of a time constraints since the migrant workers were lack of intent or motivation to discriminate, the seasonal workers who were scheduled to leave nature and scope of the DNA canvassing could Canada shortly. That being said, the migrant reasonably be expected to have an impact on workers were treated as potential persons of the migrant workers’ sense of vulnerability, lack interest and asked to provide their DNA to the of security and fairness. It could also send the authorities when a number of them could not have wrong message to others in the local community met even the most generous interpretation of Ms. about how migrant workers, as a group, should Doe’s description. For example, the men ranged be regarded. Conversely, a more focused DNA in age from 22 to 68. They ranged in height from canvass, together with additional measures 5'2'' to 6'6''. They ranged in weight from 110 to discussed in the Report, could have alleviated or 328 lbs. Five men were described as East Indian. reduced concerns about racial profiling. OPP investigators maintained that the breadth The Director also concluded that the of DNA canvassing was appropriate since the investigation failed to recognize the particular perpetrator left items (shoelaces and a strip vulnerabilities of the migrant worker community of clothing) at the crime. These items might targeted by the DNA canvass, and how those conceivably have been taken or borrowed by the vulnerabilities were relevant to whether the perpetrator from other migrant workers, whose consents obtained were truly informed and 131 Casting the Net 6 A Review of Ontario Provincial Police Practices for DNA Canvasses
voluntary. Migrant workers are not citizens or and actual racial profiling or stereotypical thinking permanent residents of Canada; they enter while not compromising the effectiveness of their Canada on special permits under the Seasonal investigations. Agricultural Worker Program, a temporary Finally, the authorities were obligated in law to foreign workers’ program. Their permits are destroy the DNA samples of individuals cleared tied to specific employers and they have very in the investigation. The Centre of Forensic limited workplace mobility. They are dependent Sciences (CFS) and the OPP did this in a timely on their employers for housing, wages and the way. However, this will be news to a number of ability to remain in Canada. Their current and the migrant workers, who did not understand future employability in Canada is, as a result, that their DNA samples would be or had been relatively precarious and dependent on the destroyed. The Director concluded that the OPP ongoing approval and satisfaction of the farm could have taken additional steps to explain owners. They are not unionized and do not the destruction process to individuals asked to have a number of the employment protections provide DNA samples as well as the fact that their available to other Canadian workers. Moreover, samples would not be used to investigate other migrant workers are separated from their families crimes. Most importantly, it would have been and home communities and are likely to have preferable if the police had taken steps to notify little understanding of Canadian legal rights and the migrant workers in a timely way, to the extent duties. In the circumstances, it can reasonably be practicable, that their DNA samples were about to expected that they will generally cooperate with be or had been destroyed. police, and forego legal rights to which they are The OPP has no specific policy that governs entitled, so as not to risk the displeasure of their how and when DNA canvasses are to be employers or the police. conducted. In the Director’s view, such a policy The role played by the farm owners and their should be created by the OPP and similarly staff, although well-intentioned, also contributed situated police services in Ontario to identify to concerns about whether all of the consents and ensure best practices and compliance obtained were truly voluntary. As well, the with the law. This Report provides guidance investigation failed to adequately take measures on the contents of such a policy. It also makes to ensure, to the extent possible, that decisions recommendations for best practices to be by workers not to provide DNA samples remained adopted to ensure that any future DNA canvasses confidential, especially from their employer. do not result in a repetition of the concerns In fairness, the OPP did take significant steps identified in this Report. to attempt to ensure that individual consents were informed and voluntary. Its officers also showed good faith and professionalism in their OrganizatiOn Of interactions with individual workers. the DireCtOr’s rePOrt The Director’s recommendations address how the police can better recognize the particular Chapter one provides an overview of the vulnerabilities at play, so as to negate perceived background and circumstances that led to this 132 OIPRD Office of the Independent Police Review Director 7
systemic review. Chapter two details the OPP Policing relies heavily on public acceptance investigation that took place. Chapter three and a shared commitment to justice. It is outlines the submissions made by the various important that policing be free from racism, stakeholders who assisted the Director in this racial profiling, bias and discrimination. It is process. Chapter four sets out the relevant also important that it be perceived that way by legislation and the historical background to the community. the issue of DNA canvassing in Canada and elsewhere. It similarly addresses how DNA Some may focus, whether in agreement or samples of cleared individuals are to be dealt disagreement, on my finding that the OPP with. Chapter five contains the Director’s analysis officers were not motivated by racial prejudice and findings. Chapter six contains the Director’s or guided by stereotypical assumptions about recommendations, including a proposed persons of colour or migrant workers. Others Model Policy on DNA Canvassing for all police may focus on my finding that the decision services across Ontario. Included is a detailed to seek DNA samples from all migrant commentary on the recommendations, including workers of colour, regardless of their physical a discussion of the feedback from a variety of characteristics, could well have had an impact stakeholders on the proposed model policy. on the migrant workers’ sense of vulnerability, Chapter seven contains a brief conclusion. lack of security and fairness.
Both perspectives have validity. But COnClusiOn ultimately, the findings give context to important recommendations designed The Director’s conclusion was as follows: to promote effective, bias-free policing and enhance police-community relations, DNA canvassing may not be frequently used particularly with those who are vulnerable. in police investigations in Ontario; however, I believe that is the common goal of every when it is used it is highly public. It engages stakeholder who participated in this systemic numerous members of the community. It review. And for that, I am grateful. asks those community members to trust the police to take their DNA, the source of highly personal information about them, use it for a single purpose and then destroy it, if they are cleared of involvement. That trust does not always come easily – especially for those who are vulnerable, who have experienced racism in their lives or in the lives of others close to them. 133 Casting the Net 8 A Review of Ontario Provincial Police Practices for DNA Canvasses
reCOmmenDatiOns
reCOmmenDatiOn 1: The OPP must develop a policy to govern how and when DNA sweeps are conducted. The policy must, among other things, identify and ensure best practices.
reCOmmenDatiOn 2: Similarly situated police services should also develop such a policy.
the POliCy
reCOmmenDatiOn 3: The policy adopted by the OPP and similarly situated police services should conform to, or be guided by, the Model Policy below.
Preamble
1.This policy outlines best practices in connection with “DNA canvasses.” Members of the police service are expected to be guided by, and comply with, the best practices identified in this policy. The policy also refers, at times, to statutory or constitutional requirements that must be complied with.
2. A “DNA canvass” refers to the police investigative tool of seeking to obtain DNA samples from a group of individuals without reasonable grounds or suspicion to believe that any particular individual within the group is the perpetrator. The group of individuals may be identified based on potential access to a crime scene or upon characteristics, such as race, shared with the perpetrator.
3. In deciding whether a DNA canvass will be conducted, investigators should be mindful, among other things, of the following: 134 OIPRD Office of the Independent Police Review Director 9
a. DNA canvasses involve the expenditure of substantial human and financial resources both by police services and forensic laboratories.
b. The identification of a group of individuals based on race or colour or analogous identifiers may reinforce the impression that the police are stereotyping people of a certain identifiable group, and as a consequence, create or exacerbate tensions between the community and the police that community policing and other initiatives are designed to overcome.
c. DNA canvasses must be conducted in ways that are compliant with the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, the Ontario Human Rights Code and the Criminal Code. This means, among other things, that: i. DNA samples can only be obtained directly from individuals, absent a court order or probable grounds, based on their informed and voluntary consent. ii. DNA canvassing that relies on stereotypes about race, colour, ethnicity, ancestry, religion, or place of origin – rather than on reasonable suspicion – to single out an individual or group for greater scrutiny or different treatment amounts to racial profiling and discrimination.3 It is unlawful.
d. Some groups of individuals are particularly vulnerable based, for example, on the nature of their employment or status in Canada, requiring heightened sensitivity by police as to how their informed and voluntary consent should be obtained.
e. The retention of DNA samples of individuals cleared of involvement in the crime under investigation by DNA testing undermines the rights of those who voluntarily provide such samples.
Best practices
4. The following best practices should guide decisions as to whether and how a DNA canvass should be conducted, and what steps should follow the completion of the investigation:
3 Actions that rely on stereotypes about other enumerated grounds under the Ontario Human Rights Code may not amount to racial profiling, but amount to discrimination nonetheless. 135 Casting the Net 10 A Review of Ontario Provincial Police Practices for DNA Canvasses
a. Given the costs (both in the expenditure of resources and in police-community relations) associated with DNA canvasses, they should not be used as an investigative tool, absent special circumstances, unless: i. there is a reasonable prospect that they will further the investigation in a meaningful way; and ii. the seriousness of the offence under investigation justifies the associated costs.
b. In determining whether there is a reasonable prospect that a DNA canvass will further the investigation in a meaningful way, the police should consider, among other things: i. how many individuals might reasonably be regarded as falling within the class of potential perpetrators and whether the number of such individuals can even be determined ii. the specificity or lack thereof of any description of the perpetrator iii. the extent to which the police have access to all, or the vast majority of, those individuals who might reasonably be regarded as falling within the class of potential perpetrators iv. the availability of alternative investigative techniques.
c. The group of individuals whose DNA will be requested pursuant to a DNA canvass must share the characteristics of the perpetrator, as determined by the investigation. Reasonable allowance can be made, in this regard, for the imprecision of eyewitness descriptions of the perpetrator.
d. Police should protect the privacy of donors and those who exercise the right not to provide DNA voluntarily. This means, among other things, that: i. an individual’s decision whether to provide a DNA sample should not be unnecessarily shared with the individual’s employer or third parties unrelated to the investigation ii. the police should make requests for voluntary DNA samples, to the extent reasonably practicable, in private.
e. Any consent to provide a DNA sample must be informed and voluntary. This means, among other things, that: i. the police should advise the individual that he or she is not required to provide a DNA sample 136 OIPRD Office of the Independent Police Review Director 11
ii. the police should not advise the individual that they can obtain a warrant to secure the DNA sample if it is not provided voluntarily iii. the police should not coerce or threaten the individual to obtain a DNA sample iv. the police should advise the individual that he or she may retain or consult a lawyer prior to deciding whether to provide a DNA sample voluntarily v. the police should advise the individual how any DNA sample will be taken, and by whom vi. the police should advise the individual what use will be made of the DNA sample and what will be done with the DNA sample and related information/data once the investigation is completed. Such advice must be consistent with the mandatory provisions of s. 487.09(3) of the Criminal Code.
f. Consents should be obtained in writing. The written consent should accurately reflect, in plain language, among other things: i. the fact that the individual is not required to provide a DNA sample ii. the use that will be made of the DNA sample and what will be done with the DNA sample and related information/data once the investigation is completed. The consent should specifically reflect that the DNA sample will only be used for the purposes of the subject investigation and for no other purposes and that it will not be retained if, as a result of DNA testing or other investigative work, the individual is cleared as a suspect in the subject investigation.
g. Police should not seek the consent of an individual to providing a DNA sample for purposes unrelated to the subject investigation.
h. Where the group of individuals whose DNA is being sought is a vulnerable group by reason of the nature of their employment, status in Canada or analogous circumstances, the police should involve, if reasonably practicable, community-based organizations which represent the group’s interests to facilitate access by group members to legal advice.
i.Where the group of individuals whose DNA is being sought is a vulnerable group by reason of the nature of their employment, status in Canada or analogous circumstances, the police should take all 137 Casting the Net 12 A Review of Ontario Provincial Police Practices for DNA Canvasses
reasonable steps to ensure that the community-based organizations and/or legal advisors are present and/or readily accessible at the time that the samples are being requested.
j. If it is necessary to conduct DNA canvassing at an individual’s place of employment, neither the employer nor his/her agent should be present at the time of the contact between the police and the prospective donor.
k. In conjunction with subparagraph 4(f), the police should clearly convey, in plain language, both verbally and in writing, the voluntary nature of the decision to provide DNA. These discussions should be recorded in their entirety to ensure fairness and transparency.
l. When an individual who has given a voluntary DNA sample is cleared as a suspect in the subject investigation, the individual should be notified, if possible, of that fact, either forthwith or as soon as reasonably practicable thereafter if notification forthwith could reasonably compromise the ongoing investigation. Such notification should generally be in writing or, at the very least, memorialized in writing.
m. No DNA sample provided voluntarily by an individual pursuant to a DNA canvass should be retained by any criminal justice agency, including, but not limited to, the applicable police service and the forensic laboratory which analyzed the sample, where the individual has been cleared as a suspect in the subject investigation. The disposal of such a sample should take place without delay. The individual should be notified, if possible, of the disposal of the DNA sample as soon as reasonably practicable after the disposal has taken place.
n. The police should purge all records and identifiable information pertaining to the individual who has been cleared as a suspect in the subject investigation except to the extent such records and identifiable information need to be maintained to document the subject investigation.
o. Where the group of individuals that is targeted by a DNA canvass is vulnerable, or where the DNA canvass could create the perception of racial profiling or stereotypical thinking, the police should 138 OIPRD Office of the Independent Police Review Director 13
proactively work with community-based organizations to address these issues, reduce misunderstandings, and enhance police- community relations.
training
reCOmmenDatiOn 4: Training should be offered both by the Ontario Police College and by applicable police services as to the Model Policy on DNA Canvassing. It should be offered to new recruits and officers who might participate in or design a DNA canvass. Such training should include:
A. The factors that should inform whether a DNA canvass is conducted and, if conducted, how it should be conducted B. Best practices and why they constitute best practices C. The law respecting informed and voluntary consents, and racial profiling D. Case examples as to how a DNA canvass may be structured to conform to best practices and avoid either the perception or reality of racial profiling, stereotyping or discriminatory conduct E. Some basic understanding of the vulnerabilities of certain groups, such as migrant workers and racialized communities, and how those vulnerabilities should be considered in designing an investigation and in promoting understanding between the police and affected communities 139 Casting the Net 14 A Review of Ontario Provincial Police Practices for DNA Canvasses
DestruCtiOn Of Dna samPles
reCOmmenDatiOn 5: The Ontario Provincial Police should publicly report, within 120 days of release of this Report, on:
A. Whether all DNA samples taken from individuals other than the perpetrator, and records that contain the results of forensic DNA analysis, have been destroyed or, in relation to electronic records, access to the results has been permanently removed and what, if any, steps have been taken to so inform those affected B. What steps will be taken to inform those affected (if such steps have not been taken to date) of the actions described above
The OPP report shall not include information that might lead to the identification of individuals whose DNA was taken.
the COnsent tO PrOviDe biOlOgiCal samPles
reCOmmenDatiOn 6: The Ontario Provincial Police, the Ministry of Community Safety and Correctional Services and the ministry of the Attorney General should re-evaluate, in accordance with this Report, the content of the Consent to Provide Biological Samples form. 140 OIPRD Office of the Independent Police Review Director 15
the DestruCtiOn Of, Or remOval Of aCCess tO, reCOrDs COntaining the results Of fOrensiC Dna analysis Pertaining tO CleareD inDiviDuals
reCOmmenDatiOn 7: The policies and procedures surrounding the destruction of or removal of access to records containing the results of forensic DNA analysis pertaining to cleared individuals should be reviewed. Clarity is needed as to what records are to be destroyed or made inaccessible and what records are to be retained. Consideration of this issue should be informed by the underlying rationale for Subsection 487.09(3) of the Criminal Code, the privacy interests of the affected parties and the need for efficient and effective police investigations. 141
Office of the Independent Police Review Director 655 Bay Street, 10th Floor Toronto, Ontario M7A 2T4 www.oiprd.on.ca
3/12/2019 OIPRD to Review OPP Practices for Obtaining Voluntary DNA Samples in Police Investigations - Office of the Independent Police Revie… 143 “Allegations that dozens of migrant workers who were asked to submit to DNA tests for a criminal investigation did not match the description of the suspect except for their dark skin colour, raises the spectre of racial pro ling and Charter rights issues. I am undertaking a systemic review that will not only investigate the immediate issues raised, but also dig deeper to explore underlying causes and broader practices to determine whether systemic failings haveoccurred.” – Gerry McNeilly, Independent Police Review Director
The review will examine public complaints led, and review and analyze evidence collected from OPP investigations, including audio and video recordings, photographs, documents, interviews and forensic evidence. The review will examine OPP policies, procedures and practices, training material and instruction, along with relevant case law, reports, reviews, articles, documents, research, data and practices from other jurisdictions. The review will also consider submissions from stakeholders and the public. A nal report summarizing the ndings of the review and outlining recommendations for the overall improvement of police practices will be released to the public.
The Police Services Act gives the Independent Police Review Director the power to examine and review issues of a systemic nature that are the subject of or give rise to public complaints. It also allows the Director to make recommendations regarding these issues to Ontario’s Solicitor General, Attorney General, the OPP Commissioner, chiefs of police, police services boards and other persons or organizations, in order to enhance public con dence and trust in police and policing.
Terms of Reference for Review of OPP Practices for DNA Sampling The Of ce of the Independent Police Review Director (OIPRD) has established Terms of Reference for its systemic review of the Ontario Provincial Police (OPP) practices for voluntary DNA sampling.
A systemic review examines the systems – policies, procedures and practices – and the root causes that promote or perpetuate systemic issues within a police service. The purpose of a systemic review is not to assign individual fault, but to determine whether systemic failings have occurred and identify issues to be addressed in order to make recommendations to enhance public con dence in police and policing.
Terms of Reference
The systemic review will examine the following:
OPP policies, procedures, standards and practices as they relate to obtaining voluntary DNA samples from speci c groups of individuals during investigations Processes used by the OPP to investigate cases that rely on DNA evidence, including sexual assaults https://www.oiprd.on.ca/oiprd-to-review-opp-practices-for-obtaining-voluntary-dna-samples-in-police-investigations/ 2/4 3/12/2019 OIPRD to Review OPP Practices for Obtaining Voluntary DNA Samples in Police Investigations - Office of the Independent Police Revie… 144 Supervision of the investigative process through the OPP command structure and direction given for processes OPP policies, procedures and practices relating to racial pro ling and the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms Training provided to OPP of cers regarding investigative policing standards, obtaining DNA samples on a voluntary basis, racial pro ling and the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms Case law, reports, reviews, articles and documents relating to gathering DNA samples, voluntary participation in that process, racial pro ling in relation to DNA collection and privacy issues surrounding the voluntary provision of DNA The level and type of police involvement with employers in relation to employee participation in police investigations, and speci cally pertaining to employers of migrant workers Process The Independent Police Review Director and appointed OIPRD investigators will conduct the investigations for the review. Under the Public Inquiries Act, the Director and appointed investigators have the power to summon witnesses and the ability to require the production of documents.
The OIPRD will examine public complaints led and review and analyze evidence collected from OPP investigations, including audio and video recordings, photographs, documents, interviews and forensic evidence. The review will examine OPP policies, procedures and practices, training material and instruction. The review will also examine relevant case law, reports, reviews, articles, documents, research, data and practices from other jurisdictions.
The OIPRD invites written submissions from stakeholders and the public with expertise and interest in police practices for DNA sampling and racial pro ling issues. Written submissions should include the name of the organization or person delivering the submission, along with reasons for the stakeholder’s interest in the issues of the OIPRD’s systemic review of OPP practices for DNA sampling. The deadline for receipt of submissions is April 18, 2014.
To request a summary of submission guidelines and a list of topics that the OIPRD has identi ed as central issues to be examined as part of the review, email the OIPRD at [email protected] or write to: Systemic Review of OPP DNA Sampling Of ce of the Independent Police Review Director 655 Bay Street, 10th Floor Toronto, Ontario M7A 2T4
https://www.oiprd.on.ca/oiprd-to-review-opp-practices-for-obtaining-voluntary-dna-samples-in-police-investigations/ 3/4 3/12/2019 OIPRD to Review OPP Practices for Obtaining Voluntary DNA Samples in Police Investigations - Office of the Independent Police Revie… 145 The OIPRD will prepare a nal report summarizing the ndings of the review and outlining recommendations and advice for the overall improvement of police practices. The report will be released to the public.
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147 2
Queen in Right of Ontario as represented by the Minister of Community Safety and
Correctional Services (the Ontario Provincial Police) and can provide the following
information regarding the Ontario Major Case Management system and the
handling of the exhibits in this investigation.
3. The Investigation and Support Bureau provides leadership and support for criminal
investigations conducted by the OPP. OPP Police Orders and the Ontario Police
Services Act require that OPP officers investigating crimes which are considered
"threshold offences" use the Ontario Major Case Management system as a
methodology for investigations of major case criteria offences. A threshold offence
is defined in the Ontario Major Case Management Manual. The comprehensive list
of threshold offences is attached in Appendix "A" of this affidavit.
4. The Major Case Management Manual requires the use of Major Case Management
software program called PowerCase when an incident is deemed to constitute a
threshold offence. Threshold major cases require that all investigative information
shall be entered, indexed, researched and cross-referenced into the ministry
approved software.
5. If OPP officers conducting an investigation of a threshold offence conduct a DNA
canvass, certain information about the canvass must be recorded in PowerCase. 148 3
6. The Ontario Major Case Management Manual states all investigative information
on a threshold major case shall be entered, indexed, researched, and cross
referenced into the ministry-approved software. Investigative information is
defined in the Ontario Major Case Manual as all information that may be relevant
to the investigation. This includes the names and particulars of individuals
canvassed which are electronically recorded in the PowerCase system, which is
part of a secure network server. Investigation records in PowerCase are not
electronically accessible by the broader Ontario police community.
7. When an individual is asked to provide a consent DNA sample during the course of
an investigation and the individual agrees to do so, the following process is
followed for the gathering of a saliva sample.
8. A Forensic Identification Officer, using a cotton tip (buccal swabL will collect a
sample of saliva from the individual's mouth and will place that sample in a
package. The package containing the saliva sample is assigned an exhibit number
and the donor's name and is submitted to the Ontario Centre for Forensic Sciences
(the "CFS"). The donor's name and identifiers are recorded in the records
management system and PowerCase. Upon receipt by the CFS, the sample is given
a code number by the CFS in place ofthe donor's name and, if not already redacted
by the police service, the donor's name is redacted by the CFS. The corresponding 149 4
code number assigned by the Centre of Forensic Sciences is recorded on the CFS
Report of Analysis and is entered into PowerCase as an attachment to the
investigative file. The donor's name and corresponding CFS code are entered in the
officer's notebook in order to properly track and document which exhibits have
been eliminated by the CFS through DNA analysis. This same information is also
recorded in the records management system of the OPP to document the
investigation. The DNA profile itself is never provided by the CFS to the OPP.
9. I have been advised by Tony Tessarolo, Director of the CFS, and verily believe it to
be true, that upon receiving the package, the CFS takes a portion of the saliva
sample from the swab and uses it to generate a DNA profile (the "consent DNA
profile"). The generated profile will then be compared to a previously generated
DNA profile associated with the crime scene (the " crime scene DNA profile"). DNA
profiles generated as a result of a consent sample are never entered onto any
searchable database.
10. If the comparison establishes that the two profiles are different, the consent DNA
donor is considered to be excluded. The CFS will provide a report to the OPP, using
the assigned code number, indicating that a specific consent DNA donor is
excluded from contributing the crime scene DNA profile. Following the analysis,
the CFS will return what remains of the submission package to the OPP for
destruction. The CFS maintains the consent DNA profile and code number, but 150 5
without a name. It is my understanding that only authorized individuals within the
CFS can access CFS databases; the OPP cannot access CFS databases.
11. Cross-referencing the paper record, the OPP investigative team will then record
into PowerCase the fact that the donor was excluded from contributing to the
crime scene DNA.
12. A person searching the PowerCase database will not find an excluded donor's DNA
profile. The DNA profile is only maintained by the CFS, without a connecting name.
The only information on PowerCase is the fact that an individual provided a
consent sample and was excluded as a match to the crime scene DNA. However,
not even this information is accessible to the broader police community. A police
officer, including OPP personnel, conducting a search of PowerCase must be
granted special authorization through the assigned OPP Major Case Manager to
access detailed information about a specific investigation on PowerCase. Even if
granted authorization, the only information on PowerCase with respect to an
excluded donor will be the fact that the individual provided a consent DNA sample
and was excluded as a match to the crime scene DNA. The OPP retains this
information so as to properly document the investigation. The Ontario Major Case
Management Manual defines "Investigation Information" as "all information that
may be relevant to the investigation". 151 6
13. Neither the OPP nor any other police service has access to CFS databases. As
noted, consent DNA profiles maintained by the CFS do not have names. I have
been advised by Mr. Tessarolo and do v~rily believe it to be true that the reason
the CFS maintains the excluded donor's DNA profile and code number at all is
because of the extraordinary practical difficulties in deleting this information.
Robotic technology used by the CFS permits large numbers of DNA samples
submitted to the CFS to be analyzed at the same time; the technology however
makes it virtually impossible for the CFS to selectively destroy DNA extracts from
excluded donors. I have also been advised that it is virtually impossible for the CFS
to destroy the code number because the code number is electronically embedded
in a complex computer program. Thus, while the CFS does not maintain any bodily
substances from submitted DNA sa mples, it retains the DNA profile, but without a
name connecting the profile to the individual who provided the sample.
14. In the sexual assault investigation referred to in the pleadings, a total of ninety-five
consent DNA samples were collected from migrant workers who were part of the
Seasonal Agricultural Workers Program and were submitted to the CFS. The CFS
report, referring to code numbers only, excluded all ninety-five samples. The CFS
returned what remained of the ninety-five submitted packages to the OPP and the
packages were destroyed by the OPP in April of 2014, within one month of the
OPP's receipt ofthe packages from the CFS. 152 7
15. I swear this affidavit in support of the Respondent's motion to have the Applicants'
applications dismissed for delay and for no other or improper purpose.
SWORN BEFORE ME in the City of Orillia,
In the Province of Ontario on Au
2016 David D.J. TRUAX
Commissioner for taki ffidavits G~~~t~~ (uJJ\~\ 153 8
Appendix 11A"
The following major case occurrences are deemed to be threshold offences and shall be assigned to a Primary Investigator who shall undertake the investigation: a) homicides as defined in subsection 222 (4), Criminal Code, and attempts; b) sexual assaults and attempts (for the purpose of this standard, is deemed to include sexual interference, sexual exploitation and invitation to sexual touching) in which one or more of the following factors is believed to exist: i) the occurrence involves an offence in section 272 (carries, uses, or threatens to use a weapon/imitation; bodily harm; party to the offence) or section 273 (wounds, maims, disfigures or endangers life) of the Criminal Code; ii) the offender is known to have been or suspected to have been previously involved in a similar offence; iii) multiple victims within a single offence; iv) multiple sexual acts; v) the use of restraints, bondage, disguise(s) by the offender; vi) the use of photographic, video or audio equipment to record the offence; vii) the removal of a personal item(s) of the victim from the scene by the offender (e.g., driver's licence or article of clothing as a souvenir); viii) scripting (i.e., the offender forces the victim to recite words/phrases or engage in prompted dialogue); ix) the use of a con or ruse by the offender to lure the victim including the use of the Internet, chat lines or dating services; x) the commission of any other offence in conjunction with the sexual assault (e.g., criminal harassment, forcible confinement, administration of a noxious substance or suspected administration of a noxious substance intended to incapacitate); xi) the victim is under the age of 16 years and the offender is a person in a position of trust or authority or is a person with whom the victim is in a relationship of dependency; xii) torture; and, 154 9 xiii) penetration, including oral, vaginal or anal. c) missing person occurrences, where the circumstances indicate a strong possibility of foul play; d) occurrences suspected to be homicide involving found human remains; e) occurrences involving non-familial abductions and attempts in which one or more of the following factors is believed to exist: i) the occurrence involves an offence in section 272 (carries, uses, or threatens to use a weapon/imitation; bodily harm; party to the offence) or section 273 (wounds, maims, disfigures or endangers life) of the Criminal Code; ii) the offender is unknown; iii) the offender is known to have been or suspected to have been previously involved in similar offences; iv) multiple victims within a single offence; v) the use of restraints, bondage, disguise(s) by the offender; vi) the use of photographic, video, or audio equipment to record the offence; vii) the removal of a personal item(s) of the victim from the scene by the offender (e.g. driver's licence or article of clothing as a souvenir); viii) scripting (e.g. the offender forces the victim to recite words/phrases or engaged in prompted dialogue); ix) the use of a con or ruse by the offender to lure the victim including the use of the Internet, chat lines or dating services; x) the victim is under the age of 16 years; xi) torture; and, f) any major case that is linked to another major case within the same or another jurisdiction.
E.nd of Appendix "A"
156 Centre of Forensic Sciences Biology Section
‘Not suitable’ indicates that the DNA profile does not meet the minimum scientific threshold for upload. ‘Not applicable’ means that the profile cannot be uploaded due to other restrictions (i.e. DNA profile from complainant).
Unless it is specifically indicated in a report / letter that a DNA profile has been uploaded, it should not be assumed that an upload has occurred.
National Crime Scene Index (CSI) The following is the RCMP Commissioner’s policy regarding the use of the National crime scene index. The excerpt below is provided to aid investigators in the utilization of this investigative tool.
Investigators may only submit to the forensic labs, for forensic DNA analysis and inclusion of the resulting DNA profile in the National DNA Data Bank Crime Scene Index, samples of bodily substances from an unsolved crime that were found:
At any place where a designated offence was committed On or within the body of the victim of a designated offence On anything worn or carried by the victim at the time when a designated offence was committed On or within the body of a person or thing or any place associated with the commission of a designated offence
For the purposes of this policy “unsolved crime” means that there is no court determination in effect to acquit, convict or stay the prosecution of a suspected person whose DNA profile is to be submitted for the investigation of a designated offence, including those committed before June 30, 2000.
CFS Local Indices The CFS also maintains several local indexes that may assist in ongoing investigations. These include:
CFS Crime Scene Index DNA profiles from crime scenes that do not meet the scientific criteria for upload to the national level CSI, but meet the scientific criteria for entry at the local level.
Deceased Index DNA profiles from known deceased individuals.
Unidentified Human Remains (UHR) Index DNA profiles from recovered remains.
Missing Person Index DNA profiles from Direct Reference Samples (DRS) from missing persons.
Discard Index DNA profiles from abandoned/cast-off samples obtained from a suspect/person of interest.
Quality Assurance Index DNA profiles from all CFS Biology Section staff members, certain other CFS staff or non-CFS individuals who have had access to items, or to the laboratory itself.
Keyboard Search Requests Investigating agencies or other forensic laboratories may provide the scientist with a written request that a DNA profile that is not eligible for upload to the National and/or Local level be subject to a “one-time keyboard search” of National or Local Indexes.
Effective: April 2, 2015 DNA Databank Information Page 2 of 4 Authorized: Authorized: N. Fernandopulle, QA/TL 157 Centre of Forensic Sciences Biology Section
Requests to perform a one-time keyboard search of the CFS Local Index(es) are subject to approval by CFS. If the search is negative, the requestor is notified via letter. Positive search results are communicated as per the Communication of National/Local Level Hits section below.
Requests to perform a one-time keyboard search of the national CSI or COI are forwarded to the NDDB, who determine whether to conduct the search.
When a keyboard search is undertaken, the CFS process defines a one-time search of a DNA profile as a search to the approved level(s) that occurs only once on the day of the search submission.
A semi-routine keyboard search agreement can also be established to enable quarterly one-time keyboard searches to be conducted for a specific DNA profile. Details of the timing of the searches and communication of results can be determined by consultation with the CFS.
Missing Persons Search Requests Currently, the legislation that will address the use of the NDDB in Missing Persons investigations is in draft and is therefore, not implemented. As such, missing persons searches at CFS are restricted to DNA profiles from Direct Reference Samples (DRS) from possible missing persons and are only:
Accepted for analysis when they are associated with a specific Unidentified Human Remains (UHR) case investigation Uploaded to the CFS Missing Person index when they are excluded as the source of the specific Unidentified Human Remains (UHR) for which they were submitted
Once uploaded to the Missing Person index, the DNA profiles are searched against Unidentified Human Remains and Known Deceased individuals.
CFS does not currently conduct kinship / familial type searches using CODIS.
Interpol Search Requests Investigating agencies may provide the scientist with a written request for a one-time Interpol (IP) search of a DNA profile of a database that is outside of Canada.
The CFS does not have a formal agreement in place to interact directly with Interpol. IP search request forms for DNA profiles that have previously been uploaded to the national crime scene index are submitted, by CFS, to the NDDB, who then forward the request to IP-Ottawa.
IP search request forms for DNA profiles that were not eligible for upload to the national crime scene index (i.e. reside on the CFS local index only), but have been approved by CFS, are submitted to the applicable IP contact by the investigating agency.
Requests for repeat or scheduled routine Interpol searches must be initiated by police agency each time. The frequency of searches may be influenced by the policies of the particular agency.
The results of international searches are forwarded directly from Interpol to the investigator.
Deletion of Profiles It is the responsibility of the police agency conducting the investigation to notify the operational forensic laboratory in writing that a particular sample should be removed from the National Crime Scene Index.
Investigators must provide written instructions to remove from the National CSI the DNA profile of:
a victim that was the object of the relevant investigation; or a person who has been eliminated as a suspect in the relevant investigation
Effective: April 2, 2015 DNA Databank Information Page 3 of 4 Authorized: Authorized: N. Fernandopulle, QA/TL 158 Centre of Forensic Sciences Biology Section
A conviction does not eliminate the suspect and the crime scene index profile need not be removed.
Communication of Databank Hits
Investigating agencies are advised directly through their agency DNA Coordinator of any hits.
There is no legislated timeline for communication of NDDB hits.
The CFS targets communication of hits to the National Convicted Offender Index within 24 hours of when the Canadian Police Service Information Centre provides the name of the offender to the laboratory.
Scene to scene hits are communicated as soon as is practicable after the match has been verified. For multi-provincial hits, the communication will include relevant information from all applicable laboratories.
Confirmation of COI Hits: The investigating agency should obtain (either under consent or under section 487.05 (1) of the Criminal Code of Canada) a bodily substance from the named offender to confirm a COI association.
To confirm a COI association, the CFS will conduct a forensic DNA analysis on a bodily substance obtained from the named offender and will carry out a direct comparison to the DNA profile obtained from the crime scene sample.
This forensic DNA analysis will result in a conclusion about whether the named offender is or is not excluded from the DNA profile obtained from the crime scene index sample. Where an individual cannot be excluded, the significance of this result will be provided.
Adventitious Hits The possibility exists for an adventitious match to occur from a database search (i.e. where a DNA profile matches with another DNA profile by coincidence).
The possibility for an adventitious hit is more likely when the profile is less discriminating than a full, single source DNA profile (e.g. a partial DNA profile and/or a complex DNA mixture interpretation).
Factors that affect the possibility of an adventitious match include:
Size of the database Number of searches performed annually on the database The Random Match Probability (RMP) of the DNA profile Presence of relatives on the databank
The possibility of an adventitious “hit” should be considered by the investigator when a hit notification (either a COI or CSI notification letter) is received from the CFS. Additionally, the investigator should continue to assess all other available case information (e.g. alibi information; relatives) before any investigative action (e.g. arrest; surveillance) is undertaken as a result of a DNA databank hit.
Effective: April 2, 2015 DNA Databank Information Page 4 of 4 Authorized: Authorized: N. Fernandopulle, QA/TL
160 Centre of Forensic Sciences Biology Section
Stages of DNA Analysis
Extraction Samples are processed to remove DNA from other cellular components. Depending on the sample this can be performed as either a conventional or differential extraction.
Quantification An estimation of the quantity of male and total human (higher primate) DNA using Quantitative real-time PCR to determine if there is sufficient DNA to proceed with the analysis using STR and/or Y-STR analysis.
Am pi ification Methods used to generate and sort multiple labeled copies of specific and Detection DNA regions to allow for detection. The regions of interest, STRs andY- STRs, are short sequences of DNA that are distinguished by their number of repeats. Different commercially available kits target different sets of STRs.
Data analysis Software packages are used to assess the number of repeats in each PCR product and assign internationally accepted designations to each PCR product.
Interpretation DNA profiles are compared to each other to determine whether they can be excluded as originating from a common source or to assess kinship. DNA interpretation can be done either manually (by the Scientist alone), or with the assistance of a probabilistic genotyping software system called STRmix™.
Quality Prior to being reported or uploaded to the National DNA Databank, all Assurance DNA profiles that are suitable for comparison are subject to a search against a Quality Assurance database. Any resulting hits are investigated to determine whether the mechanism of the DNA association could be due to an adventitious match or due to a contamination event within the laboratory. How the DNA results are reported will depend on the outcome of the quality assurance evaluation.
Effective: September 18, 2017 DNA Information Page 2 of 12 Authorized: Authorized: N. Fernandopulle, QA/TL 161 Centre of Forensic Sciences Biology Section
Statistical Associations between interpreted DNA profiles and known individuals will analysis either be expressed as a Random Match Probability (RM P) or a (Autosomal) Likelihood Ratio (LR). The statistical analysis used depends on the question to be answered and the manner in which the interpretation was performed. Five databases representing the population of Ontario (Asians, Blacks, Caucasians, East Indians, and Northern Ontario Natives) are used to perform the statistical analysis. The most conservative statistic from all five databases is reported. The CFS has population data for the core 13 COOlS STR loci only. The CFS does not have population data for the additional loci, contained within the ldentifiler® Plus, PowerPie:x® 16 HS, or GlobaiFiler® Express systems. All comparable loci are evaluated when a comparison is made between two DNA profiles however the additional loci are not included in probability calculations. CFS population databases have been assessed by a qualified population geneticist/statistician and have been approved for forensic use.
Random Match Probability (RMP): Random match probability estimates usually differ by less than a factor of 10 in either direction when different samples from the same population are compared. This estimate is only valid for unrelated people, as there would be a greater probability of coincidental matching DNA profiles among close relatives.
Likelihood Ratio (LR): Likelihood Ratio point estimates usually differ by less than a factor of 10 in either direction when different samples from the same population are compared. The estimate is specific to the pair of hypotheses being tested. These hypotheses are formulated by the Scientist in considering the relevant question(s) to be answered and will represent two alternative explanations for the data. Different sets of hypotheses will result in different likelihood ratios. In certain scenarios it may be relevant to address alternate hypotheses involving familial relationships.
Effective: September 18, 2017 DNA Information Page 3 of 12 Authorized: Authorized: N. Fernandopulle, QA/TL 162 Centre of Forensic Sciences Biology Section
Statistical Because the Y chromosome is inherited as a single unit, the statistical Analysis analysis of DNA results generated using male-specific DNA testing differs (Y-STR) from the statistical analysis used for autosomal DNA testing. For Y chromosome DNA profiles, statistics are calculated based on the frequency with which a particular Y chromosome profile has been observed in a North American population database. Statistical analyses are limited by the size of the population database searched and are generally less discriminating than those associated with autosomal DNA analysis. When reporting results associated with Powerplex®-Y analysis, a confidence limit is incorporated in the random match probability to account for uncertainty related to the database size and sampling variation. A likelihood ratio is provided when results from Powerplex®-Y23 are reported. This indicates the likelihood of the DNA results obtained if the haplotype in question is from the individual being considered, relative to a randomly selected individual from the same population.
Interpretation of DNA Mixtures
Interpretation of DNA profiles is typically straightforward but on occasion can be complex. Various scientific parameters are considered together and in combination with case specific information (item type, body fluid findings and context). These include:
• number of contributors • relative proportions of each contributor • quantity of DNA • peak heights • concordance of peaks • locus balance. In addition, any assumptions made in the process of mixture interpretation are documented in the case work notes and must be supportable.
Interpretation of results includes a formal quality assurance process that relies on validation experiments, interpretation guidelines and the collective experience of the DNA laboratory. This ensures that the conclusions reached are supported by the scientific data.
Some DNA profiles, or minor contributors within DNA mixtures, may be reported as 'Not suitable for comparison'. This is due to uncertainty with respect to the total number of contributors and/or the low or relative amounts of DNA present.
DNA profiles which have been assigned a DNA profile number within a given report/case (i.e. Profile 1, Profile 2, Profile 3) are considered suitable for comparison. Unless otherwise specified, different DNA profile numbers indicate that the profiles originate from different individuals.
Limitations
1. A minimum amount of DNA required for PCR has been established below which no further analysis is generally performed either with autosomal or Y-chromosome amplification systems. In this situation, male DNA may or may not have been detected. Effective: September 18, 2017 DNA Information Page 4 of 12 Authorized: Authorized: N. Fernandopulle, QA/TL 163 Centre of Forensic Sciences Biology Section
2. In the presence of an excess of female DNA, it is possible that male DNA will be detected in a sample but a male DNA profile will not be generated.
3. Poor quality DNA may give partial or no results depending on the extent of damage to the DNA.
4. Some substances may inhibit the PCR process leading to partial or no results.
5. In the case of Y-STR DNA profiles, males from the same paternal lineage will typically share the same DNA profile. When a mutation occurs, it results in a difference in Y-STR profiles between individuals from the same paternal line. Unrelated males will likely be distinguished using this application. For PowerPiex® Y23 profiles, a close relative is considered a biological father or brother, with the same biological father.
6. It is possible to touch/handle/wear an item and not deposit any detectable levels of DNA. A DNA profile determined from a touched/handler/wearer sample is not necessarily from the habitual user/wearer or from the person that last touched/handled/wore the item.
7. If an object is touched/handled/worn by more than one individual, it is possible that any DNA profile generated will be a mixture of DNA from different individuals.
8. It is not unusual to find detectable levels of DNA from single or multiple depositions (referred to as background DNA) on clothing. This may limit the significance of the DNA results.
9. Within certain timeframes it is not unusual to find detectable levels of DNA from prior consensual activity on internal samples. Submission of a comparison sample from the consensual partner may assist with interpretation of these results.
10. When the case history suggests prior consensual contact with the same individual who is believed to be the perpetrator of a sexual assault, the significance of the DNA results may be limited.
11. A mixture of DNA from more than one person can limit the ability to define contributing profiles and thus decrease the ability to exclude a particular individual from being a contributor to that mixture. Additionally, when an individual cannot be excluded under these circumstances, the significance may be limited.
12. STRmix™ may be able to resolve DNA profiles from mixtures in cases where manual interpretation cannot. Not all DNA profiles are suitable for STRmixTM analysis. In some cases, after STRmix™ analysis, the Scientist may determine that the DNA results as a whole, or in part, are still not suitable for comparison.
13. Occasionally the results obtained from multiple samples suggest that either the same individual or subset of individuals is/are the source of all the observed results. It may not be necessary to fully interpret every sample as these interpretations may not add further value to the investigation. When this occurs it will be clearly articulated in the report.
Effective: September 18, 2017 DNA Information Page 5 of 12 Authorized: Authorized: N. Fernandopulle, QA/TL 164 Centre of Forensic Sciences Biology Section
14. It is not always possible to attribute a DNA profile to a body fluid or cellular source. Typically touch/handler/wearer DNA testing is performed in the absence of body fluid testing.
15. DNA results may or may not assist in addressing how or when the DNA was deposited.
Effective: September 18, 2017 DNA Information Page 6 of 12 Authorized: Authorized: N. Fernandopulle, QA/TL 165 Centre of Forensic Sciences Biology Section
:DNA Glossary
Adventitious match/hit: A match or database hit where a given DNA profile matches with another DNA profile by coincidence.
Allele: A form of a gene that is located at a specific location on a specific chromosome. Alleles targeted in STR analysis vary in length.
Amelogenin: A DNA locus, present on both the X andY chromosomes, used in forensic analysis to determine gender.
Assumption: Assumptions may be made to assist with DNA interpretation. They are based on scientific data and/or case history. Any assumptions made will be documented in the case file notes. Attribution: There is an expectation that DNA from the individual from whom the sample was taken will be detected on intimate samples. The CFS defines intimate samples as swabs from internal body orifices, swabs of the skin, fingernail clippings/scrapings and underwear collected directly from the complainant/deceased. In this scenario a DNA profile can be attributed to an individual.
Autosomal STR analysis: DNA analysis performed on STR loci distributed amongst the 22 pairs of autosomal chromosomes (i.e. not on the gender determining chromosomes).
Cannot be excluded: Term used to describe an individual who cannot be ruled out as the source of a particular DNA profile or a contributor to a mixed DNA profile.
Chromosome: The physical structure in which DNA is packaged in the cell nucleus. Humans have 23 pairs of chromosomes.
Combined DNA Index System (COOlS): A software program provided to the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP) by the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) and United States Department of Justice to enable the creation of national information repository, also known as the National DNA Databank (NDDB), where forensic laboratory professionals can share DNA information.
Comparison sample: A biological sample, often blood or a buccal sample (interior of cheek), taken from a known person, to which an unknown sample profile may be compared.
Conventional extraction: A chemical procedure in which the DNA from cells is removed and purified for further processing.
Differential extraction: A two stage chemical procedure used for samples which contain, or potentially contain, semen. Produces two fractions, one enriched for sperm cell DNA and one enriched for other cellular DNA. This may assist in the interpretation of DNA profiles from samples containing semen mixed with other body fluids.
DNA: Deoxyribonucleic acid. DNA is found in the nucleus (Nuclear DNA) and in mitochondria (Mitochondrial DNA). Mitochondrial DNA may be analyzed for forensic purposes in limited situations; however this service is not available at the CFS at this time.
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DNA profile: Results of DNA analysis of one or more STR loci. A profile may also be referred to as a genotype, in the case of autosomal STR analysis, or as a haplotype, in the case of Y-STR analysis.
Epithelial fraction: In a differential extraction, the portion of the sample containing DNA primarily from epithelial cells. This includes skin cells, vaginal cells or other cells normally found on inner or outer body surfaces or body fluids.
Excluded: Term used in forensic analysis to describe an individual who cannot be the source of a particular DNA profile or a contributor to a mixed DNA profile.
For STRmix™ interpreted samples, any comparison for which the results are at least 100 times more likely under the scenario of non-inclusion.
Gene: A basic unit of heredity. A sequence of DNA that contains instructions for the production of a structure or function.
Genotype: See DNA profile.
Haplotype: See DNA profile.
Inconclusive: A reliable conclusion cannot be drawn from the testing
For STRmix™ cases, this refers to any comparison for which a determination as to whether an individual can or cannot be excluded as a contributor cannot be made because the LR falls within the validated range (between 0.01 and 1000) in which both false exclusions and false inclusions have been observed.
Inhibition: A condition where the presence of certain chemicals or "inhibitors" co-extracted from the substrate reduces the normal activity of the polymerase chain reaction. The result can be that a profile is not generated or only partial results are obtained.
Insufficient: The estimated quantity of male and/or total human (higher primate) DNA is below the CFS threshold required to proceed with the analysis.
Likelihood Ratio (LR): Addresses the probability of having observed the evidence under one hypothesis relative to the probability of having observed the evidence under a second hypothesis.
For Y-STR associations using the multiplex Powerplex®-Y23, the weight of the association between DNA profiles is expressed by a LR.
For mixture deconvolutions using STRmixTM the weight of the association will be expressed using an LR.
DNA profiles from multiple samples may originate from a common source, but may have different LRs.
The reader of the report should ensure they are aware which specific LRs apply to which items. This is to avoid attributing a greater significance to a test result than the results for that test support.
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Locus (pl. Loci): The specific physical location of a gene on a chromosome. In forensic DNA analysis, this refers to the specific sites being tested (e.g. D3S1358, vWA or D5S818). See tables 1 and 2.
Match: DNA profiles that, when compared, are indistinguishable at all loci for which a result has been generated.
Major profile: In a DNA mixture, the DNA profile which is present in a greater amount.
Minor profile: In a DNA mixture, a DNA profile which is present in a lesser amount.
Mixture: A sample to which at least two different individuals have contributed DNA.
Multiplex Systems: Commercially available kits designed to analyze multiple STR locations simultaneously (see Tables 1 and 2).
Not suitable for comparison: Term used to describe a DNA profile that has not been compared due to associated limitations. Although a profile may not be suitable for comparison through a manual interpretation, additional analysis using probabilistic genotyping software may generate profiles suitable for comparison.
Partial profile: A DNA profile in which results are incomplete at a locus or loci examined.
Paternity test: An assessment of the possibility that a particular male could be the biological father of a given individual.
PCR: Polymerase Chain Reaction. A process by which a short segment of DNA can be selectively copied. Used to quantify the amount of DNA present in a sample and/or to provide sufficient copies of DNA for further analysis.
Plexorv HY:A commercially available QPCR test kit for quantifying the total amount of human (higher primate) DNA and the amount of male DNA in one reaction.
Population databases: Compilation of genetic profiles from random unrelated members of a population used to generate random match probabilities and/or haplotype frequencies. For autosomal testing systems, the CFS has Ontario databases for Asians, Blacks, Caucasians, and East Indians and has access to a Northern Ontario Natives database. For Y-STR testing systems, the CFS has access to a number of population databases, including a North American database comprising data from various racial groups.
Probabilistic Genotyping: The use of biological modeling, mathematical theory, computer algorithms, and probability distributions to calculate likelihood ratios (LRs) and/or infer genotypes for the DNA typing results of forensic samples. The CFS utilizes the STRmix™ software system for this analysis.
QPCR: Quantitative Polymerase Chain Reaction. A method of determining the concentration of DNA in a sample by use of real-time polymerase chain reaction.
Random match probability (RMP): The probability that a randomly selected individual unrelated to the reference person would coincidentally share the observed DNA profile. This is a
Effective: September 18, 2017 DNA Information Page 9 of 12 Authorized: Authorized: N. Fernandopulle, QA/TL 168 Centre of Forensic Sciences Biology Section statement of weight provided in the event of associations between DNA profiles (excluding those associated through kinship analyses).
DNA profiles from multiple samples may originate from a common source, but may have a different RMP. In general, the RMP for the sample with the highest discrimination potential is reported. The associated footnote will also capture the other RMPs for the same individual.
The reader of the report should ensure they are aware which specific RMP applies to the item results. This is to avoid attributing a greater significance to a test result than the results for that test support.
For Y-STR associations using the multiplex Powerplex®-Y, the random match probability is adjusted, using an upper 95% confidence limit, to incorporate uncertainty due to sampling error and database.
Rapid DNA analysis: Automated (hands free) process of developing a DNA profile from a known reference sample, including extraction, amplification and detection without human intervention.
Scientific Notation: A standardized method to express very large or very small numbers. The exponent represents how many times a value must be multiplied (positive exponent) or divided 3 2 (negative exponent) by 10 to obtain the true result. (e.g.1000 = 1x10 ; 0.01 = 1x10- ).
Sperm fraction: In a differential extraction, the portion of the sample containing DNA primarily from spermatozoa.
STR: Short Tandem Repeat. Repeating units of DNA arranged in succession in a particular region of a chromosome.
STRmix™: A commercially available probabilistic genotyping software program (see Probabilistic Genotyping).
Suitable for comparison: A term used to describe a DNA profile that meets the scientific and quality requirements for comparison with other DNA profiles.
Touch/handler/wearer testing: A DNA test, generally performed in the absence of a body fluid testing result, that targets an area of an item where there is the potential for the transfer and/or deposition of cellular material via touching, handling or wearing.
Y-STR Testing: DNA analysis performed on STR loci distributed within the male-specific Y chromosome.
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Profiler COfiler Plus
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2. Excluded – the individual is not the source of a single-source DNA profile, or is not a contributor to a mixed DNA profile. A reference sample collected by consent or by DNA Warrant may need to be destroyed in the event of an exclusion, per the Criminal Code [see ss.487.09 (1) to (3)].
The term cannot be excluded means that either the person in question is the source/a contributor or the person is not and a coincidence has occurred. The possibility of such a coincidence depends on how common the unknown DNA profile is and how likely it is to be shared by different people in the population at large. A finding that an individual cannot be excluded is assessed by scientists in this context and will be followed in the report by one of two estimates:
• The Random Match Probability (RMP)
The probability that a randomly selected individual unrelated to the known individual would coincidentally share the unknown DNA profile. Random Match Probabilities are particularly useful when assessing single-source DNA profiles (including those derived from mixtures).
• The Likelihood Ratio (LR)
A ratio of two different probabilities: the probability of having observed the DNA results under one proposition (for instance, a mixture is comprised of DNA from both the complainant and the suspect) divided by the probability of having observed the same results under an alternate proposition (for instance, the mixture is comprised of DNA from two people unrelated to the complainant and the suspect).
A LR greater than 1 provides support for the first proposition, with higher numbers providing more support. Conversely, a LR of less than 1 provides more support for the second proposition. LRs address the probability of DNA test results under different propositions, not the probability of the propositions themselves.
LRs should, especially when lower (e.g. 1-1000), be considered along with other information in the case when deciding which proposition is more likely.
LRs are particularly useful when assessing mixtures of DNA but may be used for single-source profiles as well. They are also used routinely in familial DNA applications such as paternity tests. One advantage of the LR relative to the RMP is that various different propositions for observed test results can be weighed against each other.
Statistical estimates are based on established principles of population genetics and involve reference to DNA population data. For standard STR DNA analyses, Ontario population databases for Asians, Blacks, Caucasians, East Indians, and Northern Ontario Natives are used. The true value may vary from calculated estimates by as much as 10-fold lower or higher. For male-specific Y-chromosome STR analyses, North American population databases for African Americans, Asians, Caucasians and Native Americans are used. Estimates are calculated in each available population group and the most common RMP (or lowest LR) amongst them is included in the report. 173
For clarity of understanding, it is the Centre’s policy that a maximum value of 1 trillion will be reported for both the RMP (i.e. 1 in greater than 1 trillion) and the LR (i.e. greater than 1 trillion times more likely) when calculated values exceed this number. Additionally, when different RMP or LR values are obtained, with respect to the same individual not being excluded from multiple sub-items, these may be reported as a range.
TESTING SUMMARY
This section contains a table in which bodily fluid screening and DNA testing results are summarized for each item examined. Reference samples are not described in the table. If the sole purpose of the examination was to generate a DNA profile from a known individual (i.e. a reference sample) for comparison to previously reported DNA profiles, this section will not be present in the report. The single exception will occur when a comparison is made via a cast-off or discard sample (e.g. a cigarette butt); that type of reference sample (thought to originate from a known individual) will appear in the testing summary table with an evaluation of the DNA typing profile obtained.
In scenarios where a preliminary assessment of multiple items is conducted in order to determine an appropriate sequence of examination or to select a subset of items for further examination, this preliminary examination strategy will be reflected in the report as “Preliminary assessment only at this time”.
Item
CFS item numbers are generated and assigned at the time of submission. If a sample is taken from an item at the CFS for further analysis, it is assigned a sub-item number that is based on the parent item. For example, a swab of a blood stain on a jacket that has been designated item 4 by the CFS will be assigned a sub-item number such as 4-1. Multiple sub-items may be generated for an item, each with a unique and sequential sub-item number, such as 4-2, 4-3, etc.
Sub-items may be collected from an item at the CFS for further analysis by various techniques, such as cutting out a portion of fabric, swabbing a surface, or taping a surface.
Items listed in the table are typically grouped by source or scene.
Description (sub-item)
Brief descriptions are provided for each item and sub-item included in the table. Sub-items also include a description of the location of sampling as well as the sampling technique used.
Bodily Fluid Screening
Screening test results are summarized for both parent items and sub-items. For a parent item, these include a concise and descriptive overview of findings for the item as a whole, to the extent it was examined. Scientists apply their professional judgement in determining the extent to which an item is examined. For a sub-item, specific test results from the area in which the sub-item was collected are included. 174
For each bodily fluid, results of tests may be reported as “detected”, “suggested”, “inconclusive”, or “not detected”. Combinations of test results leading to each reported outcome are described in Table 1. The CFS performs a variety of tests, further described in the SUMMARY OF METHODS section of this Guide, to assist with the detection of blood, semen and saliva.
Reported Statement
Bodily “Detected” “Suggested” “Inconclusive” “Not” Detected” Fluid
Blood Visible blood-like staining N/A A positive Kastle-Meyer Negative Kastle- and a positive Kastle- test in the absence of Meyer test Meyer test visible blood-like staining Where a ABAcard® HemaTrace® test has been performed:
If positive – reported as “human”; if negative – reported as “Could not be confirmed as human
Semen A moderate to strong At least 240pg A moderate to strong Negative acid positive acid phosphatase of male DNA positive acid phosphatase test test within 30 seconds and detected in the phosphatase test within positive p30 test sperm fraction, 30 seconds in the or with at least absence of any other or 50% of all positive test for semen A weak positive male DNA acid phosphatase Positive microscopic detected in the or test, in the identification of sperm cells sperm fraction, absence of any following a Any weak positive acid other positive or differential phosphatase test or a tests for semen extraction moderate to strong acid Any positive acid phosphatase test or phosphatase test, positive beyond 30 seconds, p30 test and male DNA positive p30 test with, A moderate or profile in the sperm fraction following a differential strong acid where, following a extraction, either no phosphatase test differential extraction, at male DNA profile beyond 30 least 240pg of male DNA detected in the sperm seconds, in the is detected in the sperm fraction or a male DNA absence of any fraction, with at least 50% profile in the sperm other positive test of all the male DNA being fraction where there is for semen detected in the sperm less than 240pg of male fraction DNA or less than 50% of all male DNA being detected in the sperm fraction 175
Bodily “Detected” “Suggested” “Inconclusive” “Not” Detected” Fluid
Saliva N/A: tests presently Positive Positive Phadebas press Negative employed do not permit Phadebas test between 5 and 20 Phadebas press confirmation of the press test minutes test presence of saliva result within 5 minutes, in the or absence of visible fecal- Positive Phadebas press like staining or test result within 5 expectation of minutes in an area of repeated fecal-like staining or depositions of expected repeated other sources deposition of other of amylase sources of amylase
Table 1: Test results that correspond to reported statements.
Sub-items may be selected for DNA analysis from areas where tests suggest the presence of one or more bodily fluids. They may also be selected from areas lacking any bodily fluids test results, where deposits of DNA (e.g. from skin cells) may be expected based on the location sampled. Examples of these include, but are not limited to: areas on clothing where DNA may have been transferred by wearing the item, areas on objects where DNA may have been transferred by handling the item, and areas on drink containers where one’s mouth would come in contact.
Swabs from the complainant’s body (external genitalia, vaginal, rectal, and oral), collected using Sexual Assault Examination Kits, routinely undergo DNA analysis with no bodily fluid screening in advance. In these instances, duplicate swabs are available to conduct bodily fluid testing at a later time should it be of value to do so.
Where hairs and/or fibres are collected and preserved during screening this will be noted. An assessment of possible hairs to determine their suitability for DNA analysis may be performed during the course of the examination.
During the examination of an item, staining may be observed but not tested OR staining may be observed that appears to be incidental to the purpose of the examination, but tested nonetheless. The table will also reflect when an item has been visually examined to identify staining associated with a bodily fluid but no staining has been observed.
DNA Test Result
The DNA test result is described for each sub-item tested, unless there was not enough DNA present in the sample to generate a profile. “No/Not enough DNA” means that DNA either was not present, was present at a level below the Centre’s quantitation detection limit, or was present below the 176
Centre’s threshold for typing (240pg total DNA for STR typing; 100pg total male DNA for male-specific Y-STR typing).
Where DNA results have been generated, information is provided regarding the number of contributors or the minimum number of contributors. Where possible, the biological sex of the contributor(s) is also noted.
Reasonable assumptions regarding the number of contributors and/or the identity of certain contributors may be made by scientists in the interpretation and reporting of DNA test results. For example, the donor of an internal orifice swab can be assumed to be a contributor to a mixed DNA profile obtained from the sample. Any such assumptions are deemed supportable by the reporting scientist and, though not stated in the report, are documented in the case record.
DNA Profile Suitable for Comparison?
A DNA profile may not necessarily be suitable for comparison to profiles from known individuals (i.e. reference samples). The determination that a profile is suitable for comparison is made by the scientist in consideration of its forensic significance as well as technical limitations such as the quantity of DNA present and the degree of certainty regarding the numbers of contributors to the profile.
Where the profile is expected to be generated based on the source of the sample (e.g. the complainant’s profile from her own vaginal swab, or the profile of the deceased person from his own fingernail clippings, or the profile of the deceased person from blood on her own clothing) it may be listed as not suitable for comparison, since it has already been attributed and requires no further comparison.
In the case of a mixed DNA profile from more than one person, the profile as a whole or individual components of the profile may be determined to be suitable for comparison. A common example is the determination that a major component of a mixture is suitable for comparison but that the minor component is not.
DNA profiles are listed in this column only if they are suitable for comparison. They are further separated as STR and/or Y-STR profiles depending on which test systems were employed. Where only some components of a mixed DNA profile are listed as suitable for comparison, it means that any other components of the mixed profile are not.
The interpretation of DNA profiles may be performed with or without the assistance of a probabilistic genotyping software system called STRmix™. More information about this software system is available on the CFS website (see Improving the Interpretation of Complex DNA Mixtures with Probabilistic Genotyping – A Guide to STRmix™ for Clients).
Where it is possible to associate a DNA profile to a bodily fluid detected in the sample, this will be reported. Such associations are the opinion of the scientist who may consider, where applicable, bodily fluid screening and DNA test results in conjunction with relevant information in the case history. 177
Convention for Naming Unknown DNA Profiles which are Suitable for Comparison
The following criteria are used in the naming/designation of STR profiles suitable for comparison:
• Where a STR profile is determined to be attributable to a single individual, whether it is from a single source of DNA or whether it has been derived from a sample of mixed DNA, this profile will be designated as STR Profile 1. Where STR profiles from different samples are given the same name (e.g. STR Profile 1 designated from samples 4-1 and 5-1) it means that the same individual cannot be excluded as the common source. On the other hand, profiles designated with different numbers (e.g. STR Profile 1 and STR Profile 2) necessarily originate from different people.
• Where a STR profile attributable to more than one individual (i.e. a mixture) has been determined, and where some or all components of the mixture are suitable for comparison, this profile will be designated as Mixture 1. Different mixed profiles determined from different samples will be designated with different numbers (e.g. Mixture 2, Mixture 3, etc.). Mixed STR profiles that are suitable for comparison are not compared against each other. They are only compared to relevant reference samples, if and when submitted and tested.
In some cases, male-specific Y-STR systems are used for testing, either exclusively or in combination with STR systems. Y-STR profiles that are suitable for comparison are designated using letters (e.g. Y-STR Profile A, Y-STR Profile B, etc.). Y-STR profiles with different letter designations necessarily come from different males, whereas Y-STR profiles with the same letter designation cannot be excluded as having come from the same male source, or a close paternal male relative of that source.
General Limitations Regarding Bodily Fluid Screening and DNA Testing
• The identification of a bodily fluid, and the determination of its likely source through DNA testing, does not directly address how, when and under what circumstances the bodily fluid/DNA came to be deposited. Scientists may be able, however, to evaluate and weigh the relative likelihood of observed test results under different proposed circumstances.
• It is not always possible to associate a DNA profile to a specific bodily fluid, even where test results are generated from the same sample or sub-item.
• DNA profiles generated from items that are habitually worn or handled may not necessarily originate from a person who has worn or handled those items. In addition, it is possible for someone who has not had direct contact with an item to have their DNA deposited through indirect means of transfer.
• The persistence and stability of bodily fluids/DNA on an item is dependent on a variety of factors (age, temperature, moisture, exposure to sunlight, cleaning products, etc.) which may, over time, degrade biological samples resulting in partial or no results. Biological samples can also be removed, in whole or in part, from surfaces through cleaning/washing. 178
• Laundering may greatly reduce the ability to localize and detect, though it may not completely remove, bodily fluids and DNA on clothing/textiles.
• All methods used to detect bodily fluids and DNA have associated limits of detection, or thresholds below which one would not expect to detect the bodily fluid or DNA even if it was present.
• The term “DNA testing” covers a wide range of applications. The analysis of autosomal Short Tandem Repeats, or STRs (those present on the chromosomes not associated with biological sex) generally provides the strongest support for identifying the person from whom a sample originated. The analysis of lineage DNA markers (including male-specific Y-chromosome STRs) provides generally less discriminating test results but has other unique advantages which may be important in select cases.
SUMMARY OF ELIGIBLE DNA DATA BANK UPLOADS
This section lists those DNA profiles generated in the case that have been uploaded to the DNA Data Bank along with the specific Data Bank index (or category) to which they have been uploaded.
Canada’s National DNA Data Bank (NDDB) consists of four criminal indices (the Crime Scene Index [CSI], the Convicted Offender Index [COI], the Victim Index [VI], and the Voluntary Donor Index [VDI]). The CSI, VI and VDI are populated with DNA profiles uploaded from Canada’s three public forensic DNA laboratory systems, including the CFS, while the COI is populated by the NDDB laboratory in Ottawa with profiles from persons convicted of designated offences. DNA profiles on the four criminal indices are continually compared against each other and any hits communicated back to forensic laboratories.
The NDDB also includes three humanitarian indices (the Missing Person Index, the Human Remains Index, and the Relatives of Missing Person Index.
Specific legislative and scientific criteria must be met for a DNA profile to be uploaded to a National index. More information on the NDDB is available at http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/nddb-bndg/
The CFS also maintains a number of local Data Bank indices. These include a local Crime Scene Index, a Victim Index, an Unidentified Human Remains Index, a Missing Person Index, a Discard Index and an Elimination Index. DNA profiles uploaded to the National CSI are also uploaded to the Local CSI (though not necessarily vice versa), while DNA profiles uploaded only to local indices remain local and are compared only to profiles in other relevant local indices (i.e. profiles from cases within Ontario only).
When a DNA profile does not meet the relevant criteria for upload to either the National or the Local level, it may be eligible for a one-time search (called a ‘keyboard search’) of the National or Local indices. Investigating agencies must contact the scientist regarding the possibility of a one-time search. 179
Communication of Data Bank Hits to Investigators
When a Data Bank hit occurs, it is communicated by the CFS to the investigating agencies directly through their designated DNA Coordinators. It is then the responsibility of the Coordinators to further distribute the information in their respective agencies.
Confirmation of COI Hits
A hit between a crime scene DNA profile uploaded by the CFS and a convicted offender (i.e. a COI hit) should be confirmed. Investigators should obtain an appropriate reference sample directly from the convicted offender and submit it to the CFS for testing and direct comparison to the crime scene sample.
Reference samples may be collected with consent or, where appropriate, by DNA Warrant. Additional information on the collection of DNA Warrant samples can be obtained at www.ontario.ca/cfs, under Technical Information.
Deletion of DNA Profiles
If, following an upload of a crime scene DNA profile, it is learned by the investigator that the profile originates from the complainant or from a person who has been eliminated as a suspect in an investigation, it is the responsibility of the police agency conducting the investigation to notify the CFS in writing that the DNA profile should be removed from the Crime Scene Index. If the CFS is able to determine that an uploaded profile originates from a complainant, that profile will, as a matter of routine, be deleted from the appropriate DNA databank index.
A crime scene DNA profile does not need to be removed upon conviction of a suspect.
SUMMARY OF METHODS
This section lists methods used by the CFS for identification of bodily fluids and/or DNA testing.
The following methods are used in testing for bodily fluids at the CFS.
Test Method Description
Blood Kastle-Meyer (KM) Test A three-stage biochemical test that produces a pink colour ID reaction in the presence of either human or animal blood, as well as a number of substances which do not appear blood-like.
Blood ABAcard® HemaTrace® An immunological test that can be used to confirm that blood ID Test detected using the KM test is of human origin.
Semen Acid Phosphatase (AP) A biochemical test to detect AP activity, typically found at high ID Test levels in semen. If AP is present on an item, the test produces a purple colour reaction. AP is not specific to semen. 180
Test Method Description
Semen P30 Test An immunological test for the presence of prostate-specific ID antigen (PSA), also known as P30, which, with few exceptions, is specific to semen.
Semen Microscopy Microscopy is performed in order to positively identify sperm cells, ID which are specific to semen. Males with low sperm counts or who have been vasectomized may not produce sperm cells, but may have normal levels of AP and P30 in their semen.
Semen Differential DNA When DNA is extracted from an item, the DNA from sperm cells ID Extraction can be separated from the DNA of other cell types using a technique known as a differential extraction which results in two extracts, one containing primarily sperm cell DNA and the other containing any other DNA. Separation is not always perfect, but depending on the relative degree to which male DNA separates, results may suggest the presence of semen.
Saliva Phadebas™ Press Test This test is used to localize possible saliva stains on items, ID through the detection of amylase. Amylase is a protein often found in high levels in saliva but it can also be found in other bodily substances such as feces, perspiration, vaginal secretions and semen.
DNA testing is a multi-step process in which DNA is first extracted from the cells found in a sample of biological material. Extracted DNA is then quantified to determine how much DNA is available for further testing. This is followed by the analysis or ‘typing’ of DNA using one or more methods (listed below) in order to generate a DNA profile.
DNA Typing Method Description
Identifiler® Plus This system targets 15 different STR loci (i.e. locations) spread throughout STR System the autosomal chromosomes, in addition to the Amelogenin locus on the X and Y chromosomes, which indicates the profile donor’s biological sex.
PowerPlex® Y23 This system targets 23 STR loci found on the Y chromosome and, Y-STR System therefore, is designed to exclusively type male DNA. It is often used in samples where a very large amount of female DNA might otherwise limit the ability to effectively develop a male profile from a mixture using autosomal systems. Additionally, since the Y-chromosome is passed from father to son largely unaltered, paternal male relatives generally share the same Y-STR profile. This means the test is less discriminating than autosomal tests. On the other hand, it can also be very useful when performing various familial DNA tests. 181
Finally, generated DNA profiles are interpreted by scientists. This may be performed with the assistance of probabilistic genotyping software (i.e. STRmix™) or it may be performed by the scientist alone (i.e. Standard). Suitable profiles are then compared to samples from known individuals and/or uploaded to the DNA Data Bank.
CONTINUITY
This section will account for all items of evidence submitted to the CFS for examination and indicate whether they have been returned, retained, or transferred to another agency.
Evidence chains of custody are maintained at the CFS and are available upon request.
**** Please Note
The report author is available for discussion regarding its contents and any additional limitations which may be relevant given the circumstances of the case.
END OF GUIDE
183
CONTENTS (Table of Contents appears at back of this issue.)
OFFICIAL REPORT
On page 19 of Hansard Wednesday,September 24,1997, the second member's statement should start:
Mr. Inky Mark (Dauphin—Swan River, Ref.):
The House of Commons Debates are also available on the Parliamentary Internet Parlementaire at the following address: http://www.parl.gc.ca 184
57
HOUSE OF COMMONS
Thursday, September 25, 1997
The House met at 10 a.m. tion and to make consequential amendments to the Criminal Code and other acts. ______(Motions deemed adopted, bill read the first time and printed) Prayers Hon. Andy Scott: Mr. Speaker, I wish to inform the House that ______it is the government’s intention to propose that this bill be referred to committee before second reading, pursuant to Standing Order 73(1). ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS * * * D (1000 ) [English] CANADIAN WHEAT BOARD ACT Hon. John Manley (for the Minister responsible for the ORDER IN COUNCIL APPOINTMENTS Canadian Wheat Board, Lib.) moved for leave to introduce Bill Mr. Peter Adams (Parliamentary Secretary to Leader of the C-4, an act to amend the Canadian Wheat Board Act and to make Government in the House of Commons, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I am consequential amendments to other acts. pleased to table, in both official languages, a number of order in council appointments which were made by the government. (Motions deemed adopted, bill read the first time and printed)
* * * * * *
CANADA ELECTIONS ACT CANADA COOPERATIVES ACT Mr. Peter Adams (Parliamentary Secretary to Leader of the Hon. John Manley (Minister of Industry, Lib.): moved for Government in the House of Commons, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, in leave to introduce Bill C-5, an act respecting co-operatives. accordance with section 3(32) of the Canada Elections Act, I have the honour to table, in both official languages, copies of a form (Motions deemed adopted, bill read the first time and printed) prescribed by the Chief Electoral Officer, pursuant to subsection 46(1) of the act. * * * * * * [Translation]
CANADA PENSION PLAN INVESTMENT BOARD ACT PARLIAMENT OF CANADA ACT Hon. Jim Peterson (for the Minister of Finance) moved for Mr. Eugène Bellemare (Carleton—Gloucester, Lib.) moved leave to introduce Bill C-2, an act to establish the Canada Pension for leave to introduce Bill C-201, an act to amend the Parliament of Plan Investment Board and to amend the Canada Pension Plan and Canada Act (oath or solemn affirmation). the Old Age Security Act and to make consequential amendments to other acts. He said: Mr. Speaker, I have the honour to introduce a bill to D amend the Parliament of Canada Act concerning the solemn (1005 ) affirmation. (Motions deemed adopted, bill read the first time and printed) [English] * * * Presently members of Parliament swear allegiance exclusively to the Queen. I now present a private member’s bill that would DNA IDENTIFICATION ACT require the newly elected MPs when they are elected to swear Hon. Andy Scott (Solicitor General of Canada, Lib.) moved allegiance to Canada and the Constitution as well as swearing for leave to introduce Bill C-3, an act respecting DNA identifica- allegiance to the Queen. 185
58 COMMONS DEBATES September 25, 1997
Routine Proceedings I would like to thank all those members who read my proposed main obstacle to completion has been the term consensus which amendment, as I did, at the swearing-in ceremony. was used by the negotiating committee comprising of cabinet, representatives from the federal, provincial and territorial govern- [Translation] ments. The Deputy Speaker: I am sorry but I did not see the hon. This committee has interpreted consensus to mean unanimity. member for Abitibi second the motion when I read it. Therefore, any one government, regardless of the population it (Motions deemed adopted, bill read the first time and printed.) represents, can impede the progress of the agreement and of the Canadian economic union. This is what has happened many times.
* * * My bill will allow the federal government to use its constitution- al responsibility under sections 91 and 121 of the Canadian CANADA HEALTH ACT Constitution to complete sections of the agreement on internal trade. Mr. Bernard Patry (Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development, Lib.) moved for It is important to note that this action will only be taken in leave to introduce Bill C-202, an act to amend the Canada Health situations where a co-operative agreement between the provinces Act (nutrition services). has been sought and has not been reached. This proposed approval formula will require the agreement of at least two-thirds of the D (1010) provinces that have at least 50 percent of the Canadian population. This provision will facilitate the removal of internal trade barriers He said: Mr. Speaker, I have the honour to introduce a bill to and present growth opportunities to Canadian businesses which amend the Canada Health Act concerning nutrition services. previously have been restricted by these interprovincial trade barriers. The purpose of this bill is to include the terms ‘‘nutrition services’’ in the definition of ‘‘insured health services’’ within the present Canada Health Act. (Motions deemed adopted, bill read the first time and printed)
Nutrition is an essential component of an individual’s health. We know that Canadian dieticians are the only health professionals * * * with the proper training and skills to assess a person’s nutritional health. Moreover, the Canadian government recognizes them as a key resource in drawing up health policies such as Canada’s Food CULTURAL GRANTS ACKNOWLEDGEMENT ACT Guide, which provides guidelines for a healthy diet. Mr. Jim Abbott (Kootenay—Columbia, Ref.) moved for leave I therefore believe that it is important, both for the public and for to introduce Bill C-204, an act to require that in the advertising and the professional association of dieticians, that they be officially at the opening of a cultural project supported by public money a recognized and integrated into the Canada Health Act. public acknowledgement of the grant be made.
(Motions deemed adopted, bill read the first time and printed.) He said: Mr. Speaker, the Liberals speak quite frequently of protecting Canada’s culture which is a very noble cause I am sure. * * * They speak of it in terms of motherhood and apple pie.
[English] The difficulty is that many times Canadians are appalled at the choices they make or the people who they assign to make the AGREEMENT ON INTERNAL TRADE choices of the projects. Furthermore, there seems to be a lack of IMPLEMENTATION ACT accountability of those dollars.
Mr. Leon E. Benoit (Lakeland, Ref.) moved for leave to The purpose of this bill is to raise awareness of Canadians to the introduce Bill C-203, an act to amend the Agreement on Internal choices that the appointees of the Liberals are making. Second, it Trade Implementation Act. will give some acknowledgement to the long suffering taxpayer. He said: Mr. Speaker, it is a pleasure for me to introduce my private member’s bill, an act to amend the Agreement on Internal On the positive, it is my contention in this bill that when the Trade Implementation Act. decision-makers are aware that their choices are going to be made public they will be making more responsible choices. The agreement on internal trade, which was signed nearly three years ago, was a start. However, it has not been completed. The (Motions deemed adopted, bill read the first time and printed) 186
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Routine Proceedings
D (1015) The petitioners pray that the House of Commons will urge the federal government to compensate them. I strongly urge this government to grant their request. USER FEE ACT CRIMINAL CODE Mr. Monte Solberg (Medicine Hat, Ref.): moved for leave to introduce Bill C-205, an act to provide for parliamentary scrutiny Mr. Ovid L. Jackson (Bruce—Grey, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, and approval of user fees set by federal authority and to require pursuant to Standing Order 36, I am pleased to present a petition public disclosure of the amount collected as user fees. signed by 396 people from the riding of Bruce—Grey and area.
He said: Mr. Speaker, this is a bill to provide for parliamentary Prompted by the events in Cambridge, Ontario the petitioners scrutiny and approval of user fees set by federal authority and to wish to draw to the attention of the Parliament the issue of nudity in require public disclosure of the amount collected as user fees. public places. They call on Parliament to clarify and reinforce the relevant sections of the Criminal Code that prohibit indecent exposure and nudity in public places. In the 1993 auditor general’s report the AG said: ‘‘We are concerned that Parliament cannot readily scrutinize the user fees [Translation] established by contracts and other non-regulatory means. There does not exist a government wide summary of the fees being GASOLINE TAX charged, the revenues raised and the authorities under which they are established’’. Mr. Eugène Bellemare (Carleton—Gloucester, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present a petition signed by 25 constituents in The design of this bill is to ensure that there is scrutiny and that Carleton—Gloucester. we get a handle on the fact that revenues from user fees have The undersigned call upon Parliament not to proceed with an doubled in the last 10 years under Liberal and Tory governments, increase in the federal tax on gas. something that should concern all Canadians. [English] (Motions deemed adopted, bill read the first time and printed) IMPAIRED DRIVING
* * * Mr. Eugène Bellemare (Carleton—Gloucester, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I have a second petition. Pursuant to Standing Order 36, allow me to present to the House a petition signed by 25 petitioners PETITIONS of Carleton—Gloucester. The petitioners ask that Parliament amend the Criminal Code to THE SENATE ensure that the sentence given to anyone convicted of causing death while driving impaired carries a minimum sentence of seven years Mr. Philip Mayfield (Cariboo—Chilcotin, Ref.): Mr. Speaker, and a maximum of fourteen years. I am honoured to rise today in the House of Commons to present a D (1020) petition signed by members of my constituency who are residents of several communities, Williams Lake, Horsefly, McLeese Lake, THE FAMILY Tatla Lake and Lac La Hache. Mr. Lee Morrison (Cypress Hills—Grasslands, Ref.): Mr. My constituents call on Parliament to urge the governor general Speaker, I have three petitions to table today. The first one is from a to appoint a duly elected person to the forthcoming vacant British group of residents of my riding of Cypress Hills—Grasslands who Columbia seat in the Senate of Canada. are petitioning Parliament to ensure that section 43 of Canada’s criminal code is retained in its present form so that parents will still have their existing right to discipline their children in a reasonable INDIAN POINT manner as they see fit. I have two petitions to present which are identical in form and Mr. Darrel Stinson (Okanagan—Shuswap, Ref.): Mr. Speak- content also from residents of my riding. er, I wish to table a petition from leasees of Indian Point subdivi- sion on Adams Lake in my riding. They wish to draw the attention of the House to the fact that the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child, even though Most of these people are senior citizens who retired to homes on not officially ratified by all provinces, has ramifications that if the land they are leasing from the Adams Lake Indian Band. They are convention is fully ratified and implemented in Canada, bureau- listing many grievances against the crown, including having to crats and the courts will be legally required to determine what is the surrender their homes without compensation when their current best interests of the child, not the parents; that by ratifying the lease ends in the year 2010. convention Canada— 187
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The Address The Deputy Speaker: Order. The rules say the hon. member I believe it only makes sense that we use this standing order to cannot read the petition. He may only summarize the petition in allow ourselves the opportunity to debate this particular agreement, his remarks. I would invite him to stick to the rules in this regard to hear what the government has to say and to hear what other and give us a summary of the petition rather than read the entire members of Parliament have to say on this very important matter. petition to the House. SPEAKER’S RULING Mr. Lee Morrison: They request that Parliament support Mo- tion No. 300 which states that in the opinion of the House the The Deputy Speaker: The Chair has heard the representations government should authorized a proclamation to be issued by the of the hon. member and has made a review of the material governor general amending section 7 of the Canadian Charter of submitted in respect of the application. While no doubt the matter Rights and Freedoms to recognize the fundamental rights of is of considerable interest, the Chair does not take the view that this individuals to pursue family life free from undue interference by is a matter of emergency or one that would justify setting aside the the state and to recognize the fundamental rights and responsibility normal business of the House in order to debate the subject. of parents to direct the upbringing of their children and urge the legislative assemblies of other provinces to do likewise. I note that the House is currently debating the address in reply from the Speech from the Throne which offers a very general debate in which members are free to make remarks on any subject * * * they wish. I would like the hon. member to participate in that debate in respect of this matter at this time. QUESTIONS ON THE ORDER PAPER ______Mr. Peter Adams (Parliamentary Secretary to Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, Lib.): I ask, Mr. Speaker, that the remaining questions be allowed to stand. GOVERNMENT ORDERS
The Deputy Speaker: Is that agreed? D (1025) Some hon. members: Agreed. [English]
SPEECH FROM THE THRONE * * *
RESUMPTION OF DEBATE ON ADDRESS IN REPLY REQUEST FOR EMERGENCY DEBATE The House resumed from September 24 consideration of the MULTILATERAL AGREEMENT ON INVESTMENT motion for an address to His Excellency the Governor General in reply to his speech at the opening of the session, of the amendment and of the amendment to the amendment. The Deputy Speaker: I am in receipt of a notice of motion under Standing Order 52 from the hon. member for Winnipeg— Hon. Sergio Marchi (Minister for International Trade, Lib.): Transcona. Mr. Speaker, it is a pleasure and an honour to take part in this reply to the Speech from the Throne which was laid before the House two Mr. Bill Blaikie (Winnipeg—Transcona, NDP): Mr. Speaker, I days ago. rise under the provisions of Standing Order 52 to seek leave to move a motion to adjourn the House for the purposes of having an Our government has presented a comprehensive agenda, one that emergency debate on the multilateral agreement on investment. speaks to the basic values of Canadians. It ensures opportunity for all members of society in all regions of the nation and creates jobs, especially for our young. It ensures universal quality health care for With your permission I will say a word or two as to why I am all. It provides every child with a fair chance in life, as the prime seeking that emergency debate. This is an agreement which is minister spoke so eloquently about yesterday, and it maintains a presently being negotiated in the context of the OECD between united country able to fulfill these values and reach the dreams he Canada and other OECD countries. It is an agreement which when talked of yesterday in the House. arrived at will bind Canada for 20 years. It will tie the hands of future Parliaments. It is an agreement which has not been debated The Speech from the Throne outlined Canada’s ability to trade in the House. The government has signalled no intention to have it with and draw investment from all parts of the globe. This is debated in the House or to have an appropriate public consultation essential to the success of that agenda. process. It is an issue which concerns a great many Canadians with respect to sovereignty and the ability of governments to act in the With regard to international trade, the Speech from the Throne public interest and the increasing restrictions on that ability of addressed four key elements. The first outlined the important role governments to act in the public interest and in the common good. trade plays in the economic life of Canada. Most important, it is 188
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The Address absolutely crucial to the creation of jobs. One out of three same benefits that these enterprises give our communities domes- Canadian jobs is directly tied to trade. Forty per cent of our GDP is tically. directly tied to exports and trade, which is one of the highest, if not the highest, percentages of any western economic base. To be successful in this doubling of the number of companies which will be in the export business, it will also mean harnessing Canadian sales abroad come to more than a quarter of a trillion the energy and talent of our women entrepreneurs, for one-third of dollars. Every $1 billion of trade in merchandise creates or sustains Canadian firms today are either owned or led by women entrepre- 11,000 jobs for Canadian workers. neurs, firms that are providing almost two million jobs for Cana- dians across the country. On top of it all, women CEOs are creating [Translation] jobs at a rate nearly four times the national average. This is a track record that we cannot ignore because clearly it is creating benefits The benefits of trade extend to every part of our economy and that we cannot forgo. affect all Canadians, the farmer who grows wheat, the engineer who designs tractors and the factory worker who builds planes. That is why in November I will be leading the first Canadian business women’s international trade mission to Washington, D.C. [English] We expect more than 100 women entrepreneurs and executives will join us in exploring the lucrative $11 billion mid-Atlantic market. This mission will include new entries to the export field and We are all touched by trade and we all share in its benefits. experienced exporters who will perform the important role of Around the world barriers are coming down, markets are opening mentoring. up and opportunities are being created which were simply unimag- inable a few years ago, opportunities which are absolutely critical [Translation] to Canada’s continued economic prosperity. Canadians have come to the full realization that we are too small a nation to simply to trade with each other. The cultural and educational sectors will also be part of a team marketing products that generate wealth and employment while enhancing Canada’s image in the world and making us proud to be Second, the Speech from the Throne underscores that to take full Canadians. advantage of these opportunities we must expand our trade base further. To do so governments must work better and smarter. [English] Departments must speak to each other in a consistent single message. We must seek closer partnerships with the business community. We must redefine the role our trade associations and Utilizing the capacity of our modern economy and the diversity chambers can play for business people who are seeking new and strength of our citizens, the entire world must be Canada’s markets abroad. market. Therefore we are building on our transatlantic heritage to Europe and our close links with the United States. Of course we are a Pacific nation as well and our view of the Americas does not stop Expansion will ultimately mean that small and medium size at the Rio Grande. Canadians have links to every corner of the businesses will have to play a greater role in Canada’s global trade. globe. They must become a more integral part and focus of our global trade strategy. Currently only 10 percent of Canada’s small and medium size firms directly export. A great number of small People and companies trade with countries they feel most businesses are suppliers that feed the large corporations that do comfortable with, in languages they can speak and in cultures they trade. We know there is more room to grow for small and medium understand. That is one of Canada’s biggest advantages. Indeed it is size businesses in the world of export. Canada’s competitive advantage in the sense that no part of the world is alien to our Canadian citizenry. While Canada is very much an exporting nation, we have not become a nation of exporters. Fifty large corporations account for More than anything else the team Canada missions which our over 50 percent of Canada’s trade. Our goal therefore is to double Prime Minister began have demonstrated these very strengths and the number of companies exporting by the year 2000, which will are broadening the spectrum of Canadians involved in global trade. mean a greater take up by the small and medium size firms. Large as well as small and medium size firms, women entrepre- neurs, Canadians of all origins and backgrounds, provinces, munic- ipalities, educational institutions, all are on team Canada thereby D (1030 ) giving Canadians a stake in every part of the world and every part of the world a stake in Canada. It is only logical that if we point to small businesses being the cornerstone of our domestic economy, if we speak to small That is why I am confident that the next team Canada voyage in businesses creating the jobs in all of our communities, it stands to January to Latin America will continue this winning tradition and reason that by increasing and encouraging more small businesses to above all will promote the formula that Canada works best when join our large ones on the international field we will reap the very Canada works together. 189
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The Address The third element raised by the Speech from the Throne is that It is important to note however that if trade has been successful we must devote the same kind of energies and effort to attracting for Canada—and it has—we can attract investment and promote investment as we do to stimulating trade in merchandise. Direct more trade as long as we are dealing in a transparent, rules based foreign investment in Canada increased by some 8 percent last system of law. That assures nations like ours the opportunity of year, reaching almost $180 billion. equal treatment with larger trading partners. Rules for Canada and for other countries are the equalizer. That is why Canada must [Translation] always help to write the rules and not walk away from the table where the rules are being written.
Investments bring us capital, research and development, as well Whether it is the successful Canada-U.S. trade relationship, the as strategic and financial alliances that can help small businesses largest that the world knows—every day $1 billion moves in trade move from exclusively regional to world markets. between our two countries quietly and effectively and it is 95 percent hassle free, so at no time should we allow the 5 percent of [English] irritants to define this great relationship—or whether it is in helping to set the agenda at the World Trade Organization, it is this Ultimately investment generates jobs. For every $1 billion worth rules based system which has allowed us to reduce our barriers to of investment in Canada, 45,000 jobs over a five year period are trade while at the same time promoting our vital interests as a created or sustained. nation. Canada is also helping to draw the countries of Asia-Pacific D (1035) closer together, a region which includes the world’s fastest growing economies. At the same time the multilateral agreement on investment which we are negotiating currently with the OECD will provide us Last year the Prime Minister signed an action plan with the with a secure and stable framework of rules for Canadians invest- European Community that speaks to a strong and dynamic future, ing abroad. That investment is sizeable. At the end of last year including increased trade and investment, rather than simply Canadian investment not only by companies but by pension funds resting on past glories, as great as those glories were. of our seniors and Canadians across the country was estimated at over $170 billion. Canada is also championing the free trade area of the Americas and is seeking a closer relationship with the countries of Mercosur. To promote more investment in Canada however, we must be D even more aggressive in promoting Canada around the world. The (1040) world is growing ever more competitive by the day. As more countries industrialize we cannot assume that our share of global [Translation] investment will remain constant. In fact in a number of countries while our investment and our trade is going up, our market share in Three years ago in Miami, the concept of a free trade zone of the that region is going down. It means that we cannot rest on our past Americas seemed a far off dream. Three weeks ago in Brazil, I laurels. It means that we have to compete with the best. We have to became convinced more than ever before that plans for a trade keep up with the Joneses and sometimes you are as good as your agreement covering the entire hemisphere are about to materialize. last trade deal. [English]
That is why it is a priority for me and this government to put It is absolutely vital that Canada continues to look outward not forward the case for Canada and to remind people around the world inward, because if the world moves without you—and make no that the country the UN found to be the best place to live is also one mistake that the global march is very much on—then who really of the best places to work and to invest. It is to remind people, as gets left behind? the Prime Minister did yesterday, of the extraordinary efforts that this government placed in putting our economy and our finances on The world has experienced protectionism and has suffered a solid footing; yes, for Canadians at home first and foremost, but through its consequences. The protectionist rage which snapped a at the same time making it more attractive for investors abroad. golden age of trade in the U.S. in the 1930s turned a severe recession into a great depression. The world learned from this Finally the Speech from the Throne emphasized the leadership rather dark lesson, leading to Bretton Woods and the creation of an role that Canada plays and must continue to play in liberalizing international rules based trading system. trade around the globe. Freer trade has been positive for Canada. Over the past few years our export figures have increased exponen- Canadians know that we cannot build a fortress and lock tially. It is no accident that Canada is expected to record the highest ourselves inside. Neither is our goal free trade at any cost. On the rate of employment and growth of all the G-7 countries this year contrary, we must always preserve and promote the values and and next. traditions that Canadians hold dear. 190
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The Address Trade and investment are simply not a matter of crunching We are now talking about one with Mercosur, which I welcome, numbers or posting figures. The bottom line for trade should be but we have not done the homework to make it possible for our and must always be people, and their bottom line is jobs. It businesses to take advantage. We have the worst record in the G-7 provides the revenue we need to maintain a quality life and a countries of trade barriers within our own country. As a matter of universal health care system. It provides those revenues, the fact, we have more barriers to trade in Canada than there are in the national wealth we need to secure a good start for all of our entire European Union. That is simply not acceptable. Canadian children and to provide opportunities for all Canadians in all parts of our country. When the minister talks about barriers coming down, I suggest the next time team Canada is out on a mission perhaps it should Yesterday the Prime Minister talked of trying to help youngsters take a team Canada mission right here at home to dismantle trade get on to the other side of the fence, to lower the fence and to help barriers that are making it very difficult for our businesses to take them see the other side which as he said is always greener. I believe advantage of our trade deals. that on the matter of trade, Canada is doing just that. It is jumping over that fence. In fact a private member’s bill was introduced this morning by my colleague from Lakeland talking about just that. I would hope It was not too many years ago that our country contemplated a the Liberals on the other side would support that private member’s free trade agreement with the United States. There were concerns, bill and maybe even lift it up and adopt it as their own to get rid of indeed fears, among Canadian communities of whether this deal the trade barriers that are limiting us. would work for Canada, of whether we would be able to survive, of whether we would be able to be competitive with the largest economic market the world knows. Thanks to a rules based system I am also concerned that the government is not using the and thanks to an independent way of breaking those log jams, not processes the minister talked about to settle disputes. We have a only has Canada been able to survive, but Canada has been able to very good dispute settling mechanism within NAFTA and now win. within the World Trade Organization. What happened when it came time to use them on durum wheat a couple of years ago, softwood lumber and Helms-Burton? They never used the processes that That is why we went on to sign NAFTA, and a free trade were put in place. agreement with Chile, and a free trade agreement with Israel. Canadians obviously have recognized the absolute necessity of connecting with the bigger world outside of Canada for the I challenge the minister to tell me why and what they will do purposes of keeping our economy strong and prosperous. about that instead of accepting export caps and accepting intimida- tion from the United States. I want to know why we are not using the processes that have been put in place. Canada has rare strengths and enormous potential. We are competent, we are competitive and we are confident. In the world of global trade and investment, Canada has come of age. I want to know what the government is doing to bring down internal trade barriers in this country. At our committee on small and medium size enterprises we heard businesses state that they Mr. Charlie Penson (Peace River, Ref.): Mr. Speaker, I would had actually moved from Ontario into Michigan because they could like to take this opportunity to welcome the minister to his new do better trade with the provinces in Canada that way than they portfolio. As he said during his speech, trade is a very important could from Ontario. That is simply unacceptable. area for Canada. He noted that barriers to trade are coming down worldwide and that Canada is very dependent upon trade. I would agree with him. What will they do to correct this problem? What will they do about using the processes we have in place to settle disputes? I welcome the Liberal caucus to the area of free trade. One by one, the Liberals are slowly becoming believers. It was not always Hon. Sergio Marchi: Mr. Speaker, let me first congratulate my the case. In some cases they are actually born again free traders. I hon. friend for being appointed as his party’s spokesperson on welcome that conversion, albeit a little bit late. international trade. I say to him and to his colleagues that I very much look forward to working with him on this important file to the benefit, ultimately, of Canadians and the Canadian economy. D (1045 ) He also touched upon the history of the Liberal Party. I urge him I am concerned with the government’s approach in a few areas to reread the history of political parties a little more carefully. If he and would like to ask the minister some questions on that. I am did so he would see very clearly that the history of the Liberal Party concerned about its approach to adopting new trade regimes around has always been one of a trade liberalizing party, a party favouring the world such as a new trade deal with Chile. and wanting to bring down barriers. 191
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The Address On the contrary, the history of the party he and many of his The member’s last point was on dispute mechanisms. He said colleagues supported before the Reform Party, namely the Conser- that we needed to work closely with the business community. On vative Party, has always been one of protectionism and building the other hand he said that we had to use those mechanisms. up the walls. In terms of the free trade agreement debates and the NAFTA debates, yes, our party had something to say; but our When it comes to whether we should or should not activate those party, whether it was Mr. Turner, our former leader, or our trade mechanisms quite often it comes from advice from the industry. If critics at the time, never said that we were against freer trade. we take any commodity, many times the overwhelming consensus of not wanting to trigger a mechanism does not come essentially We stood up for fair trade. We stood up for and spoke to a rule and exclusively from a government or a minister but from the based mechanism. We spoke to a dispute mechanism that would industry. It too has to size up: ‘‘Do we go to the wall? Do we fight not allow the might to be right but for the dispute to be settled on this issue? Or, do we try to manage the trade so that we will based on facts. forgo the kinds of expenses and the kinds of energies obviously implicit in any fight on any mechanism?’’ Those are the battles the Liberal Party has fought, which has resulted in the side agreements on both labour and environment and I am also concerned and troubled, if it begins to set a trend, that the rules we as a country need to survive and obviously do very every issue will get managed. Managed trade is not freer trade and well. I think the member has the history on that issue quite one way trade is a dead end. We have to take stock of how the backward. industry feels on a particular issue as opposed to simply going to the wall and in the end only hurting the industry even more.
He talked about the business community not being prepared to look as aggressively to a free trade area of the Americas or The Deputy Speaker: Resuming debate, the hon. member for Mercosur. Nothing could be further from the truth. Our business Medicine Hat. community is incredibly bullish in the opportunities it perceives for companies in our country in the area of the Americas. Mr. Bill Blaikie (Winnipeg—Transcona, NDP): Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. Our trade has shot up. Our investments in Brazil, Argentina, Chile and Mexico have gone up. It has actually come from the The idea of the 10 minute question and answer period is that business community for us to be facilitating trade by getting our there be an opportunity for a number of members to rise. I do not policy signals right. It is very anxious to be in the free trade area of know why the minister was so particularly anxious about receiving the Americas. Obviously it is anxious to get on a plan to go with the a question from the NDP that he used up all the time. He was asked Prime Minister to another team Canada mission in Latin America. a question and he went on and on. The idea is to have a variety of questions and answers. I did not feel that the entire 10 minutes had expired. D (1050) The Deputy Speaker: There were approximately 20 to 25 Yes, the member is right about internal trade barriers. He is seconds left in the 10 minutes and the Speaker decided to terminate absolutely right that as we liberalize trade around the world, as we it because I did not feel that a question could be asked in 20 look to liberalize the Americas or APEC or get closer to Europe or seconds and answered in 20 seconds. the United States, that somehow in a very contradictory way these ancient walls still exist in Canada. Perhaps members who spoke were long winded for a period of questions and comments, but I think the hon. member for Winni- We have been working very hard on that file. My colleague, the peg—Transcona who has been in this place a long time knows that Minister of Industry, has brought together his provincial colleagues sometimes the questions are short and the answers are short and numerous times. There was a reference in our throne speech to sometimes they are long in both cases. This happened to be one of bringing down those walls. In the last meeting of the premiers I those where there was a lengthy question and a lengthy answer. took considerable hope in the fact that all premiers but one was prepared to begin to bring down those barriers. I am sorry that the hon. member did not get a chance to ask a question, but I am sure he will have an opportunity later in the day. I urge the member and his party to talk to the provinces that have fought and resisted those barriers coming down. It is not this Mr. Monte Solberg (Medicine Hat, Ref.): Mr. Speaker, I start government. We have actually tried to lead the coalition and by congratulating Mr. Speaker and his peers on ascending to the consensus of the provinces to bring down the barriers and ultimate- chair once again. I know of the Speaker’s interest in this position. I ly make those companies better prepared and more competitive to know he will enjoy his time even though, as some people suggest, it face the world. may be a difficult Parliament. 192
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The Address I also congratulate all members of the House on their election It will seek to devote one-half of the surplus in this mandate to addressing the social and economic needs of Canadians. The other half will go to a combination of to the House of Commons. It is a great privilege to be here. reducing taxes and the national debt.
I certainly thank the constituents of Medicine Hat for placing Where does it go after that? For the next 20 pages all we hear are their trust with me once again. It is a great honour. I will do my plans on how to spend Canadians’ money. It does not even end level best to ensure that I deliver their message loud and clear to the there, because on a subsequent day we have the Prime Minister House of Commons. announcing in his speech that we will spend even more money in a new endowment the government thinks is necessary for the millen- nium. I rise to address the throne speech delivered on Tuesday by the governor general. I will touch on what I think is, at least in the Then we hear that the government is contemplating buying economic spirit, the key point in the throne speech from which all helicopters, the self-same helicopters it chastised the Conserva- decisions in it will flow. That is the decision in the spring during tives for wanting to buy. Truly I wonder what is going on here. It is the election campaign when the government said that it would as though Pierre Elliott Trudeau never left this place. There is a devote about 50 per cent of its surpluses, any surpluses that it social program in every pot. realized, to new spending. The other 50 per cent would go toward tax relief and debt reduction. We should be very concerned. It has taken us 27 years to get out of a deficit situation but the government, ignorant of the 27 years D (1055) that have gone before us, now seems intent on going back and starting to spend all over again.
What criteria did the government use to determine how this The big concern—and I am glad to see the media is raising this formula would work? What were the criteria? I do not recall any as well—is that the government never set a base line anywhere in consultation with the people of Canada asking them how they the document upon which it will determine its surpluses. Now it is wanted to spend any surpluses. I do not recall that at all. I do not very possible that it will spend all its surpluses before we even get recall any focus groups or any polling. I do not remember any of to a surplus point. It is already borrowing against future surpluses. that. We will have a very insignificant surplus. Therefore we will not Two years ago when the government decided it would create a have the money that should go to Canadians in the form of debt new $2 coin, there were consultations to decide what would go on retirement and tax relief. the coin. However there were no consultations on what to do with the 75 billion $2 coins the taxpayers send to the government every One question the government needs to answer very soon is what year. There were no consultations on that, but it was very com- is the base line upon which it will determine what the surpluses mitted to ensuring that we got the $2 coin with the polar bear. really are. Then we can have an honest debate within the narrow bounds the government has laid out about how much money should go to taxes and debt retirement. I am very critical of what is in the The next issue implicit in the government’s decision not to throne speech from an economic point of view. I am very disap- consult people is its belief that the money from the Canadian public pointed. However, I believe it is the role of the official opposition actually belongs to the Liberal Party. That seems to be implicit in to also offer some constructive criticism. I would argue that the this. Reform Party has done that in spades over the last few weeks by offering not only a discussion paper on some of the alternatives to The issue here—and it is something successive Liberal and Tory what we could do with the surplus but to inform the debate and start governments have missed for a long, long time—is that money a consultation process. belongs to Canadian taxpayers. Canadian taxpayers work hard and long, in fact probably longer and harder than just about any country D (1100) in the industrialized world, to produce taxes for the government to spend on their behalf. Certainly it is time for governments to We believe it is very important to consult with Canadians on this recognize this and acknowledge them in the form of consultation issue. As I pointed out earlier, it is Canadians’ money. They process. Unfortunately that did not happen. deserve to have a say in the whole issue. It is a novel approach in this place to recognize that the money belongs to Canadians. They Specifically in the throne speech, once we get beyond the worked long and hard for it. In a moment I will tell the House just decision to spend 50 per cent on new programs and the decision how long and hard they work compared to citizens from other seemingly to spend 50 per cent on tax reduction and debt reduction, countries around the world. we encounter the actual words in the speech. There is one line about tax relief and debt reduction. We should gild it. It should be We have produced a document called ‘‘Beyond a Balanced framed. It is on page 4 and is the only reference in the whole Budget’’. I want to draw from it right now to explain how the document. It reads: Reform Party would approach the ad hoc debate that is occurring 193
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The Address today in the country about what to do with any surplus. It is ad hoc spending went from 4.74 percent to almost 6 percent, signifying because the government has chosen not to involve Canadians in it. greater participation in the provision of direct goods and services in However, in our role as official opposition we have decided that we each province, the federal level only dipped from 6.2 percent of would like to do that. We do that by asking seven basic questions. GDP to 4.22 percent of the GDP over the same timeframe’’. In other words, the provinces and the municipalities have done their First, what is a realistic projection of future surpluses once the part. In their jurisdictions they have done what they needed to do to federal books are balanced? realize the needs of their citizens. However, at the same time the federal government had trouble letting go. It cannot for a moment Second, what is the optimal level of government? consider, and this was especially true under previous Liberal administrations, letting go of some power. I would argue that is one of the reasons we have a constitutional problem that never ends. Third, can these surpluses be increased by more responsible The neverendum they call it, and it is certainly true. federal spending?
Fourth, what is the optimal level of taxes? D (1105)
Fifth, what is the optimal level of debt? We argue it is time to look at the optimal level of government. Sixth, how can we change the spending patterns of government We want to talk about responsible federal spending and whether to better reflect the priorities of Canadians? these surpluses can be increased. During the election campaign we pointed out how we could shrink the size of government while Seventh, if a public consensus can be achieved with respect to an improving services for health care, higher education and research appropriate level and pattern of federal spending, taxation and and development. That would leave us with bigger surpluses. In the indebtedness, what measures are required to ensure the federal third section we talk about that. $24 billion in surpluses under a government respects those targets and lives within its means? Reform government with the chance to implement some of our ideas would mean more money for deficit reduction, more money for tax reduction and money that would go toward important Those are the seven questions that we want to put to Canadians. programs like health care and higher education. We have already started the process and we argue it is something that the federal government should do. If Canadians want to read this document it is available to them on the Internet at www.Re- In the fourth section we talk about the optimal level of taxes. It is form.ca/babb. I will try to remember to mention that at the end of important, especially after the international trade minister has my speech as well. spoken, to point out how much we are at a competitive disadvan- tage to other trading partners around the world. In the G-7 Canada Let me go through some of those seven specific areas to lay out is the highest taxed as a percentage of personal income tax to GDP why the Reform Party has huge concerns about the whole approach of any country, by far. Our personal income tax rate is 52 percent the government is taking with what would be a surplus, if the higher than the rest of the G-7 nations and 25 percent higher than government does not spend it all before it actually got there. the industrialized countries in the OECD. Canada’s personal income tax rate is through the roof. The first point comes from the section in our document on the size of the surplus. What is a realistic projection of future surpluses once the federal budget is balanced? This has a tremendous negative impact, like the brain drain for instance. We lose all kinds of very highly qualified people to the United States and other countries around the world because the The first point I want to make is that when we use the personal income tax burden drives them away. government’s own projections we find that probably by the year 2001 or 2002, which would be the end of its mandate, it will have a surplus of approximately $14 billion annually. That is a very If we were able to drop those tax burdens we would have an conservative estimate. Others estimate as much as $20 billion. Of increased labour supply, increased participation in the labour force, course, that suggests that the government will be spending about $7 lower gross wage costs for employers, increased entrepreneurship billion to $10 billion on new programs every year by the end of its and business start-up. There is no end of benefits to lowering mandate. This is the same sort of increase we had in spending personal income tax. It is time for the government to start to during the 1970s that got us into this whole problem in the first consider those things, and we want to talk to the Canadian public place. about it. The second section I want to touch on is the part on the optimal level of government. I point out in the second section of our paper In the fifth section of our paper we talk about the optimal level of this quote. ‘‘While provincial spending increased from 2.5 percent debt. We point out the horrendous impact of the debt. We pay $47 of GDP in 1960 to 6 percent of GDP in 1995 and local government billion in interest payments on the debt each and every year. That 194
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The Address adds up to a tax burden of $3,518 in taxes per year or $295 each and Transport have taken over the helm of the ship of state—and I am every month for every Canadian taxpayer. borrowing an analogy which the leader of the Reform Party used yesterday—and decided to go to Sweden because that is where they If we had that money to apply to health care, we could run every saw the land of opportunity. However, they are going from Lake single hospital in the country for two years on one year’s interest Erie to Lake Ontario but they have decided not to use the Welland payments on the Canadian debt. It is time to start reducing the debt. Canal. They are going down the Niagara River. It is scary. I do not We make that argument forcefully in our paper but the government have to tell you, Mr. Speaker, what is at the end of the Niagara has shut off that option by deciding it is going to spend its way to River. prosperity. Envision the Minister of Canadian Heritage with a parrot on her In the next section of the paper we talk about responsible shoulder and a patch over both eyes. As they go down the river a spending. We point out that because of things like interest pay- din is heard in the distance. The minister says ‘‘Oh listen to the ments on the debt the federal government has reduced its transfers people applauding. They can hardly wait for us to arrive’’. The for health care by 35 percent. Yesterday the health minister tried to finance minister, now swabbing the deck at sword point, is saying deny that it is 40 percent, so we will grant him that it is just 35 ‘‘No, I don’t think that is applause’’. percent, $6.8 billion. And Liberals claim to be members of the party of compassion. Can you imagine what the Canadian people are saying? They hear the rabble upstairs, they hear all the noise and they are very The Liberals have closed more hospitals in the country than any concerned because they too can hear the din. It is time for the provincial government, yet they say that they care about Cana- government to recognize where it is headed with this throne dians. If they truly do, it is time for them to come to grips with the speech. It is heading toward the falls. It is time it allowed problem of the debt, with the problem of taxes. Specifically, if they Canadians to come up out of the hold to take control of the ship and get a handle on government spending and quit spending more and turn it around. We will never in a 100 years solve the problems of more and more, they will be able to devote more money to the the 1990s with the solutions of the 1970s. programs Canadians really care about.
In the final section of our paper we talk about the need for It is time for the government to wake up and recognize that government to be accountable. I know that is a novel theme in this Canadians have a stake in this. This is the most important government. We know the government has promised in the past to economic decision the government will make in its mandate, the be more accountable. The Liberals talked of ethics, watch dogs and most important decision it will make as it leads Canadians into the that sort of thing but it has never come to be. We argue very new millennium. Let us ensure that Canadians have a say in this. strongly that it is time we had balanced budget legislation. Let us ensure that their values are reflected in the direction in which the country goes. As we point out in our paper, a balanced budget law would be an important first step in reassuring Canadians from coast to coast that Let us have some appreciation for the fact that the small business the painful tax increases and reductions in the social safety net that people are the job creators. Let us understand that they want to were made necessary by previous governments will never occur have some of the $13 billion EI surplus. Let us understand that they again. are frightened to death that we are going to pass on a burden of $600 billion worth of debt to their children. Let us have some That is what is in our paper. We will be going across the country appreciation for where Canadians are at and let us make sure that during the next several months asking people to help us bring from here on the government hears what Canadians are saying. In forward some recommendations for the federal government, to the government’s absence, the Reform Party will be there to stand give it a road map so it understands where Canadians are at on up for them. these important issues. Mr. Paul DeVillers (Parliamentary Secretary to President of D (1110 ) the Queen’s Privy Council for Canada and Minister of Inter- governmental Affairs, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I would like to com- Outside of the unity debate there is probably not a more mend the Reform Party, both this hon. member’s speech and the important issue that the government will deal with in its mandate, leader’s speech yesterday. Their rhetoric and their imagery is yet it has decided to shut Canadians out of the process. I think that improving. Unfortunately, their content and their comprehension is ridiculous. remains at about the level of the previous Parliament.
This whole debate reminds me of a mutiny. It is as though a I want to question the hon. member on the point he raised in his mutiny has occurred on the ship of state, while the captain, the speech about the lack of consultation with the Canadian people. Prime Minister, is on shore golfing, and the first mate, the finance The issue of what will be done and where we will be going once minister, is asleep in his cabin. The Minister of Canadian Heritage the budget is balanced and once we have surpluses was a major along with the Minister of Foreign Affairs and the Minister of plank in the Liberal platform. It was put to the people during the 195
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The Address electoral campaign and the majority of Canadians voted for the My other question is that tax reform, as was indicated, was a platform, as is evidenced by the composition of the House. If that is major discussion in the last federal election and again I do not see not consultation, what is? much reference to tax reform in the throne speech. Does he agree with me that there was no mention of the helicopter purchase and could he clarify for the House his party’s view of the purchase of Specifically, what is the member’s opinion of the electoral helicopters? Do they support spending these moneys now on search process? What is the point of going to the people with electoral and rescue helicopters? platforms and having them judged and voted on? Also he made comments about tax reform. Has his party given D (1115 ) much thought to the fact that if there is going to be any tax reduction that it be in the form of reducing the GST as a way of assisting Canadians from all parts of the country at all levels in the Mr. Monte Solberg: Mr. Speaker, I would suggest it is the socioeconomic scale? ultimate naivety to suggest that every Canadian across the country decided they were going to cast a vote on the basis of one line in the Mr. Monte Solberg: Mr. Speaker, I appreciate hearing from the Liberal red book. My friend says it was a major plank. I do not hon. member for Kamloops. He always provides thoughtful ques- recall any ads running based on the 50 percent spending promise. I tions. He has asked me a number of questions. recall all kinds of ads where the prime minister was sitting down to coffee and suggesting that things were wonderful with him, but I First of all, I too have scoured the throne speech and I have yet to really do not recall those ads about the 50 percent. find the reference to the EH-101 helicopters. It just is not in there. Perhaps it was a typo. I would argue, and I think my Conservative friends over here would argue, on the big debate about national unity during the Perhaps, on the other hand, the government is going to announce election campaign that a lot of people voted on that basis. A lot of new programs each and every day which cannot all be included in people voted on the basis of cutting taxes. A lot of people had it in this document unless it expands it dramatically. mind that there was an important issue of taxes that needed to be addressed and they cast their ballot on that. Some people cast their The member also asked about tax reform. Tax reform is extraor- ballot on the basis of the MP who was running. dinarily important. Canadians have talked about it for a long time. It is not in this document. I do not see it anywhere in the throne speech. It is not in here at all. I would argue that it is simplistic for the member to suggest that the whole election campaign was based on that 50 percent promise. When we go to town hall meetings people often ask why we do I would also mention that all the provinces have not only got not have a flat tax in this country, why the taxation system is not balanced budgets now but they consulted their people. Then they simplified. It is not in here at all. had elections and they won. By and large, they won them. My hon. friend has asked me about the GST, a very important It is extremely naive for the member to suggest that the reason issue. I think it is notable by its absence from the throne speech. that Canadians voted the Liberals in with a diminished mandate Obviously the government is somewhat reluctant to talk about the was because of their promise to spend 50 percent of any surpluses GST. It has had its problems with it in the past, and we need not go on new spending. over that. That is well known.
Suffice it to say my party believes very strongly that should we Mr. Nelson Riis (Kamloops, NDP): Mr. Speaker, I listened with one day decide to balance the budget in this country, we hold out interest to the hon. member’s comments on the throne speech. I the option of reducing the GST in stages as we go along. It is part of appreciate his thoroughness and his straightforward comment. our blue book policy. We leave that open for Canadians to tell us to do that. He has obviously read the throne speech. Could he find any- where in the throne speech where the government indicates its D (1120 ) plans to purchase helicopters as a top priority? That is part of our consultation. We have talked about a number I listened carefully when it was being read. I do not remember of different tax reforms in our document. One that I think would hearing any comment. I reread the throne speech and I saw no have perhaps even a greater advantage than reducing the GST reference at all to the multibillion dollar purchase of helicopters. would be raising the minimum exemptions. Then it would truly help low income Canadians. In the election campaign we argued that we would take 1.3 million Canadians completely off the tax It seems to me that if this were a priority of the government, it rolls by lifting up those minimum exemptions. That is the Reform should at least have been mentioned in the throne speech. approach to helping low income Canadians. 196
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The Address Mrs. Elsie Wayne (Saint John, PC): Mr. Speaker, my question My duty is to articulate the concerns of my constituents, to be their has to do with the number one issue that the member referred to. advocate. But in a broader sense we as federal members of I would have thought the number one issue would be jobs. Parliament have an even greater obligation, and that obligation is greater than to our own political parties. That obligation is to our When we look at Atlantic Canada, in some areas in the province country. of New Brunswick we have 40 percent unemployment. When we had the chamber of commerce take a look at our area and to ask Our mission is not merely the preservation of political power but what can we do, it said ‘‘we are not at a point at the present time to harness the awesome strength that we have been given and whereby we can be independent of government assistance’’. channel it toward the perpetuation of freedom, peace, prosperity and unity. We must not bicker among ourselves when the future of I hear people in the Reform Party stand up and say no more our country hangs in the balance. government programs, no more government assistance, no more need for it across this country. There is need. We want to be Our strength as a nation will be immeasurably enhanced if we independent. We will be independent. We will get there but we continue to foster actively an environment that is conducive to cannot do it now. The government programs that have been put in achieving even greater unity as a nation. We must all be invigorated place for the last three years have hurt us dramatically. We have the by our triumphs of the past, by the magic of the present and by our breakup of families. It is very difficult for our people. They want hopes and dreams of the future. their dignity. I would think jobs would be number one and we cannot just do that with tax cuts. We have to have government It is the endless possibilities of the future that we as parlia- programs. mentarians must look toward by generously accepting new people, heartily believing in new ideas and boldly encouraging innovation. I would like to hear from the member of the Reform Party on We must accept the value of dissent and daring and savour where he stands on that. courageous controversy as a hallmark to courageous change.
Mr. Monte Solberg: Mr. Speaker, I thought all the NDP D (1125) members were at that end. It is necessary to remember that in order to achieve this vision The Reform Party plan would deliver about $1 billion in tax for the future we must allow those blessed with the talent to reach relief to Atlantic Canada. We argue that is a much more effective for a higher calling, a higher destiny, on their own merit. It is way of ultimately not only delivering money into the hands of equally important to remember that we must help those who people in Atlantic Canada and allowing them to have more money through no fault of their own cannot help themselves. for consumption but also ultimately what it does is allow small businesses to start to spring up. It starts to change the economy in Atlantic Canada. There are some people who argue that the principal function of government is to clear the decks, clear the obstacles out of the way of the strong and the cream will rise to the top, whether that cream We have outlined an entire plan to help Atlantic Canada get out be rich and powerful individuals or rich and powerful regions of the of the morass that it is now in because of successive Liberal and country. This is wrong. Tory governments. I unquestionably defy anyone who expounds the survival of the Our plan will lift Atlantic Canada up in terms of the economics fittest model of living. That may be the basis by which we describe of the country to the level of the other provinces. That is our plan. the process of evolution, but a government must associate itself with a higher moral and philosophical order. A country as blessed I do not believe that we can continue to send transfers to Atlantic as Canada should be able to somehow find room at the table for the Canada all the time without other reforms that go on to fix the hungry, shelter for the homeless, work for the idle, care for the economy fundamentally so that it can take advantage of its ties elderly and infirmed and hope for the destitute. with New England and that sort of thing so that we can ultimately give Atlantic Canadians the hope that they really do need and really Some people say that we should not care about the other people, do deserve. that we should treat them with disdain, that we should charge on and do our own thing. We must remember that we are a family. We Mr. Hec Clouthier (Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, Lib.): are one family and we must stick together. We must share both Mr. Speaker, it is a pleasure for me to share my time with the hon. benefits and burdens, strife and success fairly and equitably for the member for Leeds—Grenville. good of all.
It is an honour for me to be in this rather august Chamber Personally speaking, I am one from a family of ten. I have five representing the great riding of Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke. sisters and four brothers. We do not always agree on everything, 197
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The Address but at the end of the day we come together. We are one. No family, vision of hope. We must continue to reach out to our fellow no political party, no province and no country which ignores its citizens, strengthen our bond and our identity as Canadians. We troubled regions and troubled peoples while watching others thrive must continue to pursue excellence on behalf of our country and prosper can call itself justified, decent or responsible. Canada. We must continue to relentlessly challenge not only our own standards but those of the international community. We must It is the duty of any political party that wants to be given the continue to make our Canadian voice heard distinctly and bravely mandate to lead our country in the future to reach out to all people among other nations in the world. in a non-partisan fashion. It is precisely this ability that marks the signature of a great leader. All great leaders have had an uncanny As their federal member of Parliament, my duty is to galvanize ability to take with them not only members of their own party, not the will of the citizenry of the great riding of Renfrew—Nipis- only selected individuals, but with a unique combination of sing—Pembroke, to represent their voice here on Parliament Hill courage, determination, introspection and imagination an entire bravely, with intense passion, fervent conviction and undying and country. unyielding determination so that we may travel through the 1990s and into the next millennium proud of our noble heritage, sup- [Translation] ported by our family and friends, enriched by our diversity of talent, invigorated by our unity of vision, empowered by our However, imagination is no substitute for reality, and the reality infinite hope, our undying optimism and our indomitable spirit. is this: when citizens stand together, we feel stronger as a country. This is my duty and I will do so without fear and without favour. My son Tyler, who is 12, goes to a French school in Pembroke, Ontario. I think this is wonderful, but what is not so wonderful is I ask all members of Parliament to join with me in my resolve. that some Canadians would destroy our country for purely selfish For a newer, brighter, more beautiful frontier is within our grasp. reasons. Let us not fail at this critical time. Let us, yes, sprint forward together and continue to build a great country called Canada. [English] I close with the immortal words of Longfellow when he said, let If need be we must join a crusade to keep this country together. us work and leave behind us footprints in the sands of time. We must turn lethargy into energy. We must counter misguided passion with focused conviction. We must overwhelm narrow [Translation] minded nationalism with broad minded federalism. We must overpower this scurrilous innuendo with the unmasked truth. Longue vie au Canada. The truth of the matter is that we live in a country called Canada [English] which is acknowledged as the greatest country in the world in which to live. This acknowledgement comes as a result of our tremendous strengths. We are a very decent nation, capable of Long live Canada. understanding, compromise and diplomacy. We are also a very accomplished nation. It was a Canadian who discovered insulin. It [Translation] was a Canadian who invented the telephone, although considering the fact that I have two teenagers, I am not so sure about that Mr. Ghislain Lebel (Chambly, BQ): Mr. Speaker, I was invention for the time being. listening with great interest to what the hon. member for Ren- frew—Nipissing—Pembroke had to say, and I heard him defend D (1130) this great Canada of ours as only assimilated French Canadians are capable of doing. [Translation] I want him to know that he is a perfect example of what I would It was a Canadian who won two gold medals for speed skating at never want to be. In this House he represents a diminished Quebec, the Olympic games. a Quebec that has been swept under the rug, a Quebec that they want to erase from the map, the francophones that they intend to [English] extinguish sooner or later, and as far as they are concerned, the sooner the better. It was a Canadian who conceived of the notion of emergency forces, not for war but for peace. These are but a few of the However, if we look at the history of Canada, although people accomplishments that Canadians have come forward with to leave say there were two founding peoples, the francophones were here a lasting legacy. first, 150 years before the new bosses of my hon. friend opposite. But how many are left today? They used to be the majority, but now However this is not enough. We must do more. We must not even 25 per cent of the population of this country speaks continue to work to make sure that every yesterday is a vibrant and French. Some of them changed sides, and he is one of them. He beautiful dream of happiness and every tomorrow is a magnificent should realize that. 198
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The Address It is sad but true that in a country that supports multiculturalism Mr. Joe Jordan (Leeds—Grenville, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I and has two official languages, one has been ignored and given would like to congratulate the member for Renfrew—Nipissing— no consideration whatsoever. Pembroke on his maiden speech. His points were well taken and I look forward to his continued participation in the debates of this House. D (1135) I would also like to congratulate you, Mr. Speaker, on your This is the reason for the presence of the Bloc Quebecois recent appointment as Deputy Speaker of this assembly. I have members. They, too, are here to promote the rights of their electors, every confidence that the team assembled possesses the necessary the rights of those who elected them to this House and just as skills and abilities to successfully oversee the affairs of this 36th legitimately as in the case of the hon. member. Maybe he decided Parliament of Canada. to obliterate his past—footprints on the sands of time, as Longfel- low put it—maybe he brushed all that away, maybe he sided with [Translation] the Governor General in trying to tell us that the deportation of the Acadians was a sort of Club Med excursion, all expenses paid. I I am very happy to be here today. have no problem with that. There have always been people in the history of francophones in Canada to join those who oppose us, our [English] adversaries, and to diminish us. I think the member for Renfrew- Nipissing-Pembroke is one of those, and he should be made aware of it. The riding of Leeds—Grenville is a dynamic mix of agriculture, business, industry, the service sector and with the support of an efficient CTC and the efforts of enlightened entrepreneurs is fast I would like to know whether the member for Renfrew-Nipis- becoming a tourist destination for the world. sing-Pembroke acknowledges Quebecers as a people and their presence here for 350 years. I would like to have his answer, because this is the subject of an amendment to the speech from the As a newly elected member for this great riding, I want to thank throne. I would like him to tell me whether Quebecers are a people all my constituents for their support and confidence. I want to and whether he can reconcile that with the remarks of the Minister assure them that although I am truly honoured it is the tremendous for International Trade, who said earlier he was capable of promot- responsibility of representing them in Parliament that will serve to ing Canadian culture. guide my actions. As is customary in a maiden speech I would like to take this But what is Canadian culture? I would like to hear what he has to opportunity to recognize my predecessor, a man who quietly and say on that. Is it selling the Calgary stampede in Paris? Perhaps he effectively went about his work, a man whose actions demonstrated could do that, but that is of no real interest to me. Just as selling the not only the political knowledge to differentiate between right and songs of Gilles Vigneault around the world is of no interest to the left but also a clear and fundamental understanding of the differ- Reformers. I would like him to say how he plans to reconcile the ence between right and wrong. He provided me with a vision of a two cultures, if he will admit that there are two in Canada. He better day as well as a weekly allowance and occasionally the keys would first have to admit that there are two peoples in Canada, and to the family car. I am not sure he could do that.
D (1140 ) So, I would ask the hon. member, not knowing where he is coming from, whether he acknowledges that Canada has two peoples and, if so, how he can promote the French culture he has History will show that Jim Jordan was a politician who clearly totally lost. cared more for the public than he ever did about public relations. Throughout his career this approach was all too often dismissed as unsophisticated and old-fashioned but I believe he was ahead of his Mr. Hec Clouthier: Mr. Speaker, my Canada includes Quebec time. And as the political pundits are predicting chaos for this and my friend opposite, even though he does not think Canada is a session of Parliament, it might serve us all well to revisit some of great and wonderful country. I am only a modest woodsman, but I his qualities. fear he may have been hit on the head by a piece of wood. I cannot find the right words. It is great for me, I feel very strongly for that I am proud to add my voice in support of the Speech from the part of the country, and there is no problem. Throne. I wish to preface my comments with the point that the very fact we are now engaging in a discussion about how we might [English] spend surpluses is a tribute to the sound monetary and fiscal management of the 35th Parliament of Canada. The Deputy Speaker: I point out to hon. members that this is a five minute period of questions and comments following on a The tough decisions and sacrifices that Canadians made have 10-minute speech. I think we might resume debate. served to open doors of opportunity for us as a country. But we 199
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The Address have some fundamental decisions to make. The key here is that we costs are every bit as real as inventory and transportation costs. are now in a position to debate and make those decisions and not Industry will need to recognize sustainable growth as the opportu- have those decisions made for us. nity that it is.
One of the central themes of the throne speech was the commit- As we continue to saturate markets and as technology shortens ment to co-operation between various levels of government. traditional product life cycles, the latent demand for this sector will present Canadian companies with opportunities to develop and market proprietary technologies globally. Companies will need to I was born into a family of seven boys and can attest to the fact work in consultation with the government to ensure that policies that co-operation is far easier to preach than to practise. But open such as lifetime product stewardship have appropriate phase in participation in competent, transparent processes with clear evalua- periods to allow for the necessary design changes. tion mechanisms is the key to Canada’s continued success on the world stage. The government needs to show leadership through co-operative There is no doubt as recent history has shown that certain domestic regulation and aggressive global negotiations to allow the traditional federal powers have been better exercised at the provin- industries committed to the future to prosper and grow. I have cial or even the municipal level, but gravity need not be the only every confidence that Canada can and will be at the leading edge of sustainable technologies. The co-operative and incremental adop- force at work in this process. If the federal government is to tion of economically successful sustainable practices is critical to exercise its responsibilities in a global and highly competitive the continued success of Canadian society and I feel will be an area world, then certain traditional provincial powers might be better of considerable comparative advantage well into the next century. exercised at the federal level. When we talk of a collaborative approach to strengthening and modernizing Canada’s social union, let elected representatives focus on allocating powers to the D government level where the interests of Canadians, not politicians, (1145 ) will be best served. The throne speech also directed necessary resources toward the I was particularly pleased to hear the reference in the throne problem of youth unemployment. The lack of secure employment speech to environmental technologies and the potential for growth manifests itself in any number of social symptoms. By treating the and global leadership. If we commit to targeting this vital sector problem we can begin to break some of the cycles that served to with the goal of developing commercially viable, sustainable frustrate the youth of this country. development practices, then we as a nation will not only have demonstrated the ability to live within our means, but we will also As a representative of a riding that has seen its fair share of have developed the capacity to live within our world. downsizing and restructuring, although the youth need jobs, so do the displaced workers. We must strive to address both the long and I want to be clear about this concept. It does not involve short term requirements of society. As a government we must strike disadvantaging Canadian companies by enforcing high output a balance between the present and the future. standards. Certainly, regulation is required. But we need to put our collective energies into how governments can support sustainable practices given the self-policing concepts of profit and competition The throne speech outlined a strategy for expanding opportuni- inherent in free markets. Canadian firms will be able to expand into ties in aboriginal communities. As I worked on the text of this emerging markets with higher quality products at lower prices response to the throne speech, I spent a great deal of time and because of, not in spite of, sustainable practices. energy struggling with the semantics of the complex concept of sustainable development. I smiled at myself as I recalled the Iroquois practice of making decisions based on the impact they The political risks of such initiatives are being eliminated as would have on the seventh generation from now. I cannot help but successes are being documented. The popularity of recycling wonder what other wheels we as a nation need not reinvent if we programs demonstrates that when efforts toward sustainability can can restore the health back to these cultures. be brought into a legitimate arena, the public will respond. The challenge for us then is to clearly bring all aspects of sustainability into the realm of legitimacy. That is going to require some I regret the fact that time does not allow me to comment on all fundamental shifts in thinking and a healthy dose of collective aspects of what I truly believe is an enlightened framework, but effort. there are a few more points I would like to mention. It strikes me as we talk of the new millennium that January 1, 2000 is a day after December 31, 1999. Let us not miss the opportunity to accomplish Business and engineering schools will need to begin to teach as much as we did in the last two years in the next two years. Let us decision making models and algorithms that incorporate compre- commit to working toward, not simply planning for, the new hensive costing principles. Certainly, disposal and remanufacturing millennium. 200
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The Address In key areas of challenge such as unity, health care, crime and in this House. They spoke about the throne speech which was poverty the speech contained a common theme. There is consider- about vision, hope and confidence. They spoke with pride at being able evidence to support that early and aggressive intervention can elected to this place. Their families are here in the gallery filled be correlated to positive long term outcomes. As my predecessor with pride as they have listened to their family members speak in a would have said, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. place where so few of us ever have the opportunity to come and in Let us commit as a Parliament to focusing on that elusive ounce an environment of freedom and free speech speak our minds and of prevention for I believe it sets a much less confrontational and say what we believe. much more productive agenda. I am struck as a new member by the differences and the Let us remember that democracy is a precious thing but it is similarities. Certainly the difference that I heard from the throne merely a means and not an end. It is what we choose to do in this speech has been echoed by my colleagues who stood with pride to place, not the fact that we are in this place that transforms shared speak about a document that was about confidence, vision and values into actions. hope.
Mr. Peter Stoffer (Sackville—Eastern Shore, NDP): Mr. What I have heard in response troubles me. This is an opportuni- Speaker, my comments and statements will be brief. It is amazing ty for us in a non-partisan way to share our thoughts and views. I that the Liberals can predict the weather now. Winter has come would ask my colleagues, if they came to this House in a spirit of early to Ottawa as this is the biggest snow job throne speech I have positive nation building, which I know they did, how they feel ever heard or seen. today to know that not everyone shares the goals of building together and working for this nation. I feel sad that there are those who would tear this country apart. I remind the members of the Liberal Party that in 1956 my mother, father and six children immigrated to Canada. We did not have to pay a head tax to immigrate to this country. That is how I believe that my constituents in the wonderful riding of good it was back then. Under the current policies it would have cost Thornhill expect all of us to do what we can to solve the problems my family $8,000 to immigrate to this great country and he is that we face in a positive and constructive way. I congratulate my talking about what a great society it is and how great and wonderful colleagues for putting forward their vision and speaking to the it is. I would like to see him answer to my parents or any new throne speech document which I think shares the vision of hope, immigrants coming to this country who will have to pay $8,000 for confidence and nation building that should permeate this place. a family of eight to immigrate so they could receive the opportuni- ties he has so eloquently described. [Translation]
The Liberal Party should also be thanking all those millions of Mr. Paul Mercier (Terrebonne—Blainville, BQ): Mr. Speaker, people they have placed in poverty, especially our children, under history has shown that, when two peoples exist within a single their scorchers policies. They are following the Reform right down nation, they each come to understand that it is in their mutual in a rush to the bottom. They are ripping up labour contracts and interest to separate. This was the case with the Austrians and the denying people their basic rights. May I remind the member from Hungarians before the 1914-18 war. It was also the case with the Ontario that when he denies a child sustenance or food or anything Swedes and the Norwegians at the turn of the century and, more that is called child abuse. When they take that sustenance away recently, with the Czechs and the Slovaks. from millions of Canadians it is called balancing the budget. I imagine my hon. colleague denies Quebec’s right to separate. Mr. Joe Jordan: Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for his Perhaps he could tell me if it is because he does not consider question. I was describing where I think we need to go as a country. Quebecers a people? We certainly face challenges. I caution the member that this notion that the good old days were comprehensive good old days is deeply [English] rooted in myth. Mr. Joe Jordan: Mr. Speaker, certainly the world has regions If this country were bankrupt, the problems the member is that are separating. However, I would like to remind the hon. describing, which I do not deny exist, would be compounded right member that if he looks at the very regions he is talking about that up the social ladder. It is important that as members we try to at their desire to enter NATO and their desire to enter the European least deal in reality. By painting pictures of things that may not Union clearly points to the fact that together these groups have a happen is not serving the interests of Canadians. much stronger presence and a much higher quality of life. The partisan feelings that would suggest that we could make it better on our own or that somehow life would be better if we split up D (1150 ) certainly do exist.
Ms. Elinor Caplan (Thornhill, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I would like But if we look at the world, that is clearly the minority opinion. to congratulate both of my colleagues who spoke for the first time In Canada we have not only two cultures but three. With the 201
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The Address aboriginal community, the French community and the English Third, it is easy to boast about bringing order to our public community, Canada will be much stronger. I think the people of finances, considering that the finance minister literally robbed Canada are starting to realize that. That might very well explain workers and employers by improperly dipping into the employ- some of the frustration that I am seeing across the way. ment insurance fund. Last year, the minister pocketed $5 billion, even though it has been years since the federal government [Translation] contributed to the employment insurance fund. This year, the minister will take $7 billion from that fund. So, it is easy to boast Mr. Yvan Loubier (Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, BQ): Mr. Speak- and to brag, but taxpayers will not forget that the Minister of er, I congratulate you on your appointment. Finance made himself look good at the expense of Quebecers and Canadians. What did the minister himself do in all this? What was his own contribution? First of all, I would like to thank my fellow citizens of the riding of Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot who have put their trust in me again in the last election. In the 1994 budget speech, the Minister of Finance told us that departmental spending would be cut by 19 per cent. The minister I was outraged by the speech from the throne that was delivered has not kept his promise. Departmental spending has been cut by two days ago. It was riddled with misrepresentations, distorting only 9 per cent over the last four years. The minister has not made reality with respect to the existence of a Quebec people, among even half the effort demanded of those who are ill, of students, of other things. the most vulnerable members of society, especially welfare recipi- ents, or of those who would normally re-qualify for employment D insurance, but, because of the new employment insurance policy (1155) introduced last January, find themselves back on welfare.
On the subject of misrepresentation, I would like to focus on two elements of the throne speech: public finances and national unity. Here too, he can go on about how unemployment is down. Of course it is. The unemployment figures, meaning the number of As far as public finances are concerned, we must refer to page 4 people actively looking for work, have dropped, but entire families of the throne speech, which reads, and I quote, ‘‘This 36th are now stuck on welfare because of the minister’s new employ- Parliament opens at a time when we have brought order to our ment insurance policy, which also happens to be generating public finances’’. The speech goes on to say ‘‘The government will surpluses that he is using to reduce the deficit. These folks no continue to be vigilant and responsible about keeping the financial longer show up in the official unemployment figures. This is not affairs of the country in order’’. what being a responsible government means.
I almost fell backwards when I read that, because the Minister of What is our charming Minister of Finance going to do with the Finance has been anything but responsible in his last three budgets. surpluses he is generating? He will move right into areas of The Minister of Finance can boast about our public finances being provincial jurisdiction. Do you know why? Because the throne in order. Credit must be given where credit is due, but the fact is speech, just like the first throne speech we heard in this House, tells that the credit should go not to the federal finance minister, but to us that the federal government will be barging into areas of his provincial counterparts, especially Mr. Landry, of course. Why? provincial jurisdiction, including education. We are told in the Because they are the ones who had to do his ‘‘dirty job’’. He did not throne speech that the federal government will measure the readi- do a thing to bring about the conditions that will result in a zero ness of Canadian children to learn. Education comes under the deficit as early as next year. exclusive jurisdiction of Quebec and nobody is ever going to interfere in education, which comes under our jurisdiction. Fifty four per cent of federal spending cuts were made in social programs. The Minister of Finance cut $4.5 billion from federal All these investments being announced in Quebec’s areas of transfers to the provinces for education, health and social assis- jurisdiction, after what they did to Quebec’s public finances in tance. This represents a $1.3-billion shortfall for the Quebec particular, have been in the works since March 1996. government. Fifty-four per cent of the cuts were made in that area.
Yesterday, the finance minister replied to a question from a D (1200) Reform Party member on taxes. The other major contribution made to bring order to our public finances is the taxes paid by Quebecers and Canadians. Since 1994, the Minister of Finance has let tax If I may, I will quote the President of Treasury Board who, in the revenues increase by $23 billion. That money comes from taxpay- March 8, 1996 edition of Le Soleil, publicly admitted the federal ers’ pockets. The minister is now talking about $2 billion in government’s strategy, a strategy which consisted of dumping its targeted tax cuts. This is the least it can do after collecting an problems of public funding onto the provinces, getting the prov- additional $23 billion since 1994. Taxpayers are getting a little treat inces to do the dirty work, so that it can come out looking good to from the finance minister after years of tightening their belts. all of the taxpayers. 202
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The Address To quote the President of Treasury Board in the March 8, 1996 So, since the government’s finances are in better shape, instead edition of Le Soleil, ‘‘When Bouchard—he does not even have the of this nickelling and diming, instead of these intrusions in decency to show a little respect for the Premier of Quebec—will Quebec’s jurisdictions, without so much as a by your leave, have to make cuts, those of us in Ottawa will be able to because it is so important to hand out cheques with a big Canadian demonstrate that we have the means to preserve the future of flag, the Liberal government should consider what people need and social programs’’. put more money into the employment insurance fund and social programs. Such is the strategy of the federal government: to make Quebec My third point is that since the new employment insurance look like the bad guy when it comes to social programs and to the system came into effect last January, the benefits and usual health sector, when in fact they are the main ones responsible. They protection for workers who lose their jobs were greatly reduced. then come along with great fanfare to announce that they will be We are therefore suggesting that the federal government, since they putting programs in place, that they will help our young people and are in a better position financially, get back to a better approach improve the health system. Such behaviour is odious and absolute- that would genuinely help unemployed workers get back on their ly hypocritical, particularly when it is at the expense of the least feet and remain on the labour market instead of being forced to go advantaged and the sick. on welfare, which is no way to help families get back on their feet, especially if it keeps them out of the labour market. Our campaign platform was clear with respect to sound manage- ment of public finances, as well as the battle against poverty. Our The fourth suggestion we made in our campaign platform, and it program had six points, basically. is still valid, is to have a targeted tax reduction. Not the kind of generalized, useless tax reduction which does nothing to stimulate consumer buying and job creation, but targeted reductions based on The first was that we were calling upon the federal government, a logical analysis of the tax system. since public finances are getting in better shape, to give back what it has swiped from the provinces, that is to say return the $4.5 D billion it has stolen yearly from social programs in order to fund (1205) social assistance, postsecondary education and health. These are no small amounts we are talking about. In this regard, I am particularly proud to remind people that the Bloc Quebecois conducted two major studies in the past year and a half. One was on reforming corporate taxation to make it fairer Just looking at the health transfers the federal government was with fewer of those loopholes that allow hundreds of millions of making to the provinces in past years, for every dollar cut by the dollars annually to avoid federal taxes. Minister of Health since he has been responsible for this sector, 93 cents were used to reduce the federal deficit. And for all of the We also put forward a document on improving personal taxation social programs, every time a dollar was cut from social programs to make the system fairer and to ensure that families, especially in Quebec, 78 cents of it were used to reduce the Minister of low and medium income ones with children, get the benefit of such Finance’s deficit. reform.
This is a lot of money, and if for the past year the federal We repeat the suggestion to the Minister of Finance that this tax government had done its job, if it had not slashed social transfers to reform should take place in his second mandate. If he was too the provinces, the Quebec government would no longer have a sluggish in his first mandate to implement our suggestions, which, deficit. The problem would have been settled long ago, and our I would point out, are currently being used by Canadian universi- books would have balanced. ties as a good example of tax reform, he should be delighted and accept the proposals of the Bloc Quebecois. In this mandate, however, I think that it would be a good idea for him to make the Next, considering that the country’s financial situation has tax system fairer for lower income classes and not just for his improved, we asked the government to reduce employment insur- millionaire and billionaire friends and those of the Liberal Party of ance premiums. Not a cosmetic 6 cent per $100 of insurable Canada. payroll. We suggested a reduction of about 30 cent per $100. Why? For the simple reason that the Bloc Quebecois is on the side of jobs Our fifth proposal would increase tax benefits from $850 million and job creation. to $2 billion, adding $1.15 billion in child tax benefits. This is a real battle against child poverty. I think that, with the developments If the government meant what it said when it talked about job in public finances, it is not too late for the Minister of Finance to do creation, it would have consistently reduced employment insurance the right thing. premiums, because they kill employment. Any direct payroll tax as substantial as employment insurance premiums is bound to kill Every time I see him put his hand to his heart, I cannot help but employment. wonder if he is feeling for his wallet. If he is really concerned 203
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The Address about child poverty, he should be spending more in that area and importantly, the existence of a distinct people. The throne speech make it a true national priority. reinforced this first historic misunderstanding. It is a true misun- derstanding and it originates with the members across the way. Sixth, it is not hard to understand, in fact it is quite simple: if the federal government minded its business and refrained from inter- D (1210) fering in areas of exclusive provincial jurisdiction, I am sure it would save money. Every time the federal government announces with fanfare plans to get involved in education, to put an education The second historic misunderstanding was to have believed that, program in place, to meddle in health issues and every other area in 1982 when Pierre Elliott Trudeau patriated the Canadian Consti- under Quebec’s exclusive jurisdiction, that costs money. And, in tution without Quebec’s agreement, we would get down on our spite of his financial position, the finance minister is not paying for knees and agree to this Constitution that we never wanted. Quebec- all this, the taxpayers are. ers stood their ground and I am proud of that. We never agreed to this Constitution.
Every instance of duplication and overlap in programs entails The third historic misunderstanding, and again it originates with administration costs borne by taxpayers. Taxpayers are also paying the members across the way, is to have thought that, in order to twice for federal government employees to do the exact same job make amends for the historic affront of the 1982 patriation, they as Quebec government employees. The public must know that. could toss any little scrap our way after the failure of the Meech That is what I mean by distorting the reality behind public finances. Lake accord and we would go for it, in order to put the problem behind us once and for all, with no regard for our pride or our wish to build a strong Quebec. Something else in this speech from the throne struck me; I was quite shaken by it. It contains, on page 7, third paragraph, a line as disgraceful as they come, in my view, and I quote, ‘‘Our future as a They gave us Beaudoin-Dobbie, Beaudoin-Edwards, the Spicer country is too precious for us to risk losing it through misunder- Commission report, and the Charlottetown accord, which was put standing’’. to a referendum and defeated. They came to us with completely meaningless concepts, empty shells, such as the rather comical idea of principal homeland. Now, after the Calgary declaration, they A nation’s aspiration to sovereignty is not based on any misun- have come up with unique character. Quebecers are not interested. derstanding. It is based on this desire we share to build our own Quebecers will do exactly what they did to every other meaningless country, a country soon to be known as Quebec. There is no offer they received concerning Quebec’s future and reject it out of misunderstanding there, and it is disgraceful to suggest such a hand. thing. This would mean that, in the referendum held in 1995, 61 percent of francophones voted yes but did so based on a misunder- standing. Seventy per cent of francophones on the island of Mr. Bourassa had gone much further, and if Daniel Johnson Montreal voted yes, but did so based on a misunderstanding. agrees to bow and scrape for mere crumbs, he will go down in Almost half of all Quebecers voted yes, but did so based on a history as having bowed and scraped for just that, mere crumbs, misunderstanding. putting his electioneering interests before Quebec’s true interests.
There is a fourth misunderstanding and it has to do with plan B, This is probably the most preposterous statement I ever heard. If to which the throne speech refers yet again. In Quebec, there was a there were misunderstandings in the history of the relations time when fear was an effective tool. So was English Canada’s between Quebec and Canada, they were on the federal side. There paternalism. We will be hearing a great deal about this with four were of course a number of such misunderstandings, but I targeted federalist parties represented in the House of Commons. But it does four. not work any more. Perhaps plan B could have worked at another time, but it will not now. The Supreme Court and its judges will not These misunderstandings go as far back as 1867. Here is the first change the course of history. We will repel any attack on the one. In 1867, two founding nations signed a confederation agree- territorial integrity of Quebec. And no minister of intergovernmen- tal affairs or member for Saint-Maurice will be able to slow down ment. At the time, it was believed that our French Canadian or stop the people’s march toward sovereignty. ancestors and the English Canadians had signed a historic accord between two sovereign nations, two founding peoples. However, over time, we came to realize that such was not the case. Over the There was no misunderstanding in nearly winning the last decades, English Canada shrank the scope of this confederation referendum on sovereignty. There a clear desire to build our own agreement. English Canada will not admit at all that Quebec is country in Quebec. I have a word of warning for those across the different. In fact, if we look at the throne speech, we realize that it way who may be tempted to crow over the results of recent polls. not only denies that there is any difference, but also that it denies These polls are no referendum, but let me tell you that, when one is the existence of a distinct society, a distinct culture and, more called, Quebecers will speak. They will speak loud and clear and, 204
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The Address this time, the will say yes for real and that will be the last First, I never said anything to insult the Minister of Finance. I referendum in the history of Canada. criticized his budget policy because I consider it savage. If anyone has been insulted in the past four years, it is the poor families in I would now like to address my Canadian friends in their own Canada, the sick and the students, who have suffered from the language, if I may. savage cuts of the Minister of Finance and his government.
[English] Second, I would like him to know that, in this House, we are elected to represent all the people in our riding and all the people of The only way for our common future is not the status quo but the Quebec, be they federalist or separatist. independence of Quebec, a new relationship, a new partnership with Canadian citizens. Whatever my colleague may think, and I will close on this point, the Bloc Quebecois represents 60 per cent of Quebec ridings. It Whether or not you want this partnership does not change therefore represents a majority of Quebecers. Furthermore, we will anything. Nothing will stop the determination of my people, the be here in the coming years to remind him of the past and present Quebec nation, to reach liberty, to become a sovereign country. The realities of Quebec and of its aspirations. That may be distressing, next referendum will be the right one. but that’s life.
Neither your political representatives, Liberal, Conservative, [English] Reform or NDP, nor the judges of the Supreme Court will change anything. You could not force 7 billion Quebeckers to stay in Mr. Dennis J. Mills (Broadview—Greenwood, Lib.): Mr. Canada against their desire. Speaker, I listened attentively to the member’s remarks. I think it is appropriate to remind the member that one of the greatest destabi- Our aspirations are legitimate and deeply democratic. They do lizing factors to investment in the province of Quebec is the not rely on justice to be planned. The respectable attitude of Tony constant threat of separation especially when corporations think Blair, Prime Minister of United Kingdom, with Scottish and Welsh about expanding their plants. people must be for you a source of inspiration. Members will know that we are in an economy right now where [Translation] things are very much on the rebound, people are being hired and plants are being expanded. Business looks for stability and busi- In the meantime, I would encourage my fellow Quebecers to ness needs stability. contemplate sovereignty and heed the advice of Félix Leclerc, who once said, and I will close on this: ‘‘The fruit is ripe in my country’s The member, a respected economist, knows full well that this orchards. This means that the time has come, if you get my drift’’. I constant irritant, constant threat of destroying this country is a am convinced that Quebecers will heed Félix’s advice in the next disincentive to investment which is really hurting those constitu- referendum. ents looking for jobs.
D (1215) I think that when the member talks about the economy and caring and sharing, about those people who are most in need, as he [English] did in his speech, those are the ones who are looking for work. And the best way for them to get work is to ensure that the businesses in Mr. Paul Bonwick (Simcoe—Grey, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, the Quebec that feel they want to expand feel they will be able to hon. member spoke of tough cuts that were made and dealt with survive in a very healthy, stable marketplace and not one that is surpluses and what the government should do. under a constant cloud of separation.
When the member insults the Minister of Finance and the [Translation] government he is insulting Canadians right across this great country and in his province as well. Those are the people who Mr. Yvan Loubier (Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, BQ): Mr. Speak- sacrificed to get the budget back in order. Those steps were er, for the past two years, private and foreign investment in Quebec necessary. has reached record proportions, in spite of the constitutional debate. And I may remind the hon. member that Quebecers are not I also challenge the hon. member to come forth and be positive the only ones responsible for the fact this debate exists. rather than threatening Canadians across the country. I also remind the member that he does not represent the entire Quebec province D (1220) but one riding. If we look at the history of relations between Quebec and [Translation] Canada, part of the responsibility for this problem is yours as well.
Mr. Yvan Loubier: Mr. Speaker, with all due respect to my I can assure hon. members that if they were to accept our colleague, I would like to correct three things he has just said. partnership offer, because we sovereignists are giving them that 205
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The Address chance, an offer of partnership after a vote in favour of sovereignty, responsible for a situation which has gotten worse over the last everything the hon. member said about economic growth and three years. employment in Canada and Quebec would be settled. It is not normal to make cuts based on a budget plan tabled by the Furthermore, I can assure the hon. member there is not a single finance minister in 1996, to slash, year after year on a cumulative economic indicator that will stop a people from fulfilling its basis, the budget for social programs by some $42 billion, and to destiny, and we on this side of the House are convinced the think this will have no impact on child poverty. The government sovereignty of Quebec will in the end be a plus for economic should give us some credit. growth and job creation. It cannot be otherwise. There is no doubt that the decisions made by this government Look at the throne speech. We just said that provincial jurisdic- have had an impact on child poverty and made parents poorer. tions will be interfered with, that it will cost as twice as much in Parents got poorer as a result of, among other things, the employ- civil servants’ salaries, program administration, and so forth, that ment insurance program implemented in January, which consis- we would be better off without this perpetual quarrelling, that we tently reduces benefits and which also excludes many adult could each determine what is best for ourselves and pool our workers from the labour force. These people have to rely on resources when our interests coincide. welfare.
It seems to me this is perfectly clear. I think what is happening So, do not try to appeal to our emotions. We are not going to be today in the United Kingdom is marvellous. If Canadians like you fooled by the finance minister’s crocodile tears. It is not right to were to show the same understanding for the history and destiny of present things in that light. The minister should admit he made a the people of Quebec, I think it would be easier for all concerned. mistake in his plan and he should at least put aside the budget cutting scheme developed in 1996. [English] There is not even any mention of this in the throne speech. The government says it will give back some money. Do you know what Mr. Nelson Riis (Kamloops, NDP): Mr. Speaker, I share the the government is doing? The Minister of Finance originally same views as my friend from Broadview—Greenwood on this wanted to cut $48 billion. Now the new figure is $42 billion. The question. federal government will cut $42 billion from transfers for social assistance, post-secondary education and health. The hon. member, in his thoughtful presentation, referred to the plight of Canada’s children. I think we sometimes assume that it is It is despicable to present things as if the government was just a matter of fact that we have to have poor children. We have to handing out goodies when in fact it is merely cutting somewhat less have people who do not have jobs and who are living in poverty. than anticipated in 1996, but with the same slash-and-burn ap- proach. The minister should have the decency to rise, to tell the I might want to remind my hon. friend, who probably does not truth and to announce that he is immediately putting an end to his need reminding, being the economist that he is, that there are many planned cuts for the next three years. This would be an effective countries in the world where child poverty does not exist. I refer way to fight poverty, particularly child poverty. specifically to countries like Norway and Denmark where children do not live in poverty because their parents do not live in poverty. [English] Poverty is not something that we have to accept as a reality. Mrs. Nancy Karetak-Lindell (Nunavut, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I It seems to me that in a country as rich as ours we should not would like to inform the House that I will be sharing my time with have the number of children living in poverty and suffering today the hon. member for Simcoe—Grey. I would also like to congratu- because their parents are living in poverty. late you, Mr. Speaker, on your recent appointment as our Deputy Speaker. Considering the situation that exists in what has to be the wealthiest country in the world, would the hon. member not agree D (1225 ) that this is actually, to quote the Catholic bishops, a form of child abuse for a government to allow this condition to continue? [Editor’s Note: Member spoke in Inuktitut.]
[Translation] [English]
Mr. Yvan Loubier: I agree with the NDP member, Mr. Speaker. Thank you for this opportunity to speak in the House of Commons. It is rather despicable to see the Minister of Finance and government members place their hands on their hearts and talk It it a great honour to be back in this Chamber. I say back about the plight of children, given that they themselves are because in 1975 I sat here in the House of Commons as a student 206
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The Address participating in a model Parliament in seat 113. I did not think then education. One avenue to keep youth in school is through athletics. that I would be representing Nunavut 22 years later. There needs to be more focus on partnering schools and sport.
I am proud to be the first female in the history of my riding to sit Twenty-seven out of twenty-eight Nunavut communities are in the House of Commons and even more proud to be of Inuit coastal communities but all are serviced only by air. There are no descent. roads. Air freight is the only reliable way to ship goods and perishable food. Communities receive non-perishables like fuel [Editor’s Note: Member spoke in Inuktitut.] and construction material by sea lift, many of them only once a year. [English] Freight is the primary reason for the high cost of living in I thank my constituents for the privilege of representing them at Nunavut. In many communities a four litre jug of milk costs $10, a this crucial point in the future of Canada and Nunavut. loaf of white bread $2.69, a five pound bag of potatoes goes for $6.95 and a case of Coca-Cola will cost $41. With gas costing 71 Nunavut covers 1.9 million square kilometres of our country. cents a litre it is very expensive for northern residents to buy gas so That is 20 per cent of Canada. It spans three different time zones they may go hunting for country food, which is still very much the and the population is roughly 25,000 people. The land covers main diet. fiords, mountains and tundra.
While I was travelling through the communities in my campaign D (1230 ) I could not help thinking it was truly a lesson in geography. My constituency goes north to the North Pole, west to the Alberta-B.C. The constituency that I represent cannot be compared to any border, south to James Bay and east almost to Greenland. Nunavut other part of the country. When I was in Iqaluit, the future capital of has many international borders including Russia, Denmark and the Nunavut, it was mentioned that Canadians are as ill-informed about United States. their north as Americans are about Canada.
This vast and untouched area has great potential for a natural When I was going to high school in Ottawa I was asked before resource based economy. Each year more exploration is going on in Christmas break by a classmate to bring back a stamp from my the north, in particular mineral exploration. Nunavut’s high Arctic home so she could have one for her collection. This is one example hosts two lead and zinc mines. This activity benefits northern of how true it is that Canadians forget that their country goes much communities by creating jobs for our population. further beyond 60o north. We are part of Canada and proud to be Canadians. We need continued support for sustainable development and training in this sector. Alongside this is the challenge of protecting When people outside the north think of the Arctic, they think of our environment. We have to make sure our land remains natural igloos, polar bears, and arts and crafts. Carvings and crafts are a and beautiful. legitimate source of income to many families in the north and are relied upon to put food on the table. We have tremendously talented We need to promote fisheries and the processing of country food. artists who need to have their work marketed. Therefore it is very This along with tourism are areas that create employment in the disturbing for me to see imitation art displayed in stores. No one north and must be explored as valid industries. can replace the beauty of an original carving of the north. Means to promote economic development of art must be explored. One of the mandates of the Government of Nunavut is to staff its public service with a 50 per cent Inuit workforce. This is a realistic goal considering that the Inuit population of Nunavut is over 80 per If any culture is truly unique and different within Canada, it is cent and the working language will be Inuktitut. the Inuit culture. Our ancestors came here thousands of years ago, lived off the land and adapted to dramatic changes. In the span of As we speak the Government of Canada and the Government of roughly 35 years, Inuit went from igloos to houses, from dog teams the Northwest Territories are training Inuit to staff Nunavut’s to airplanes, and still kept their culture alive because we still use public service. Nunavut Arctic College has been instrumental in igloos and dog teams. making education accessible and relevant to all Nunavut residents. During my parents’ time, Inuit used fox tags and wooden sticks Last week in Iqaluit I witnessed the signing of a training to trade for supplies. Today my father has a Visa card and my agreement between the two governments that will ensure the mother can use her Interac card to do her banking, even though they employment targets are met. do not speak any English.
Although governments are now training to staff the public The Inuit are a very adaptable people and I am very proud of the service there have to be mechanisms in place to keep our youth in progress we have made in such a short time. These examples show school and to pursue post-secondary education. There are many that Nunavut residents are ready for the challenges that await barriers that stand in the way of our youth attaining higher them. The implementation of our long awaited territory is rapidly 207
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The Address approaching and co-operation between parties involved is neces- [Translation] sary. Mr. Guy St-Julien (Abitibi, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I too want to I look forward to working with the Minister of Indian Affairs and pay tribute to the member for Nunavut. In my riding, they would Northern Development, the Interim Commissioner of Nunavut, the tell her in Inuit: president of Nunavut Tunngavik, and the government of the Northwest Territories to make sure that Nunavut residents see a smooth transition on April 1, 1999 which is less than 580 days [Editor’s Note: Member spoke in Inuit] away. All of these parties, along with regional Inuit organizations, Qikiktani Inuit Association, Kitikmeot Inuit Association and Ki- [Translation] valliq Inuit Association, will be essential in providing me with real input as we face tough decisions. That means ‘‘Thank you very much. You are a superstar for having been elected to the House of Commons’’. The division of the Northwest Territories is the most significant and exciting event taking place before the turn of the century. It has not been since 1949 when Newfoundland joined Confederation that Abitibi covers 802,000 square kilometres, and has 92,000 inhab- something of this magnitude has occurred in Canada. itants, 68 communities and 68 mayors. There are 14 Inuit villages in Abitibi. So I am very familiar with the Inuit culture. I would like Establishing the Nunavut territory is my priority as Nunavut’s to mention to the hon. member that it is true that, while in the south member of Parliament, but it must also be a priority of this House. bread sells for between $1 and $1.06, in Nunavut, New Quebec, This is monumental. I urge my colleagues in this House to take this bread can cost between $2.50 and $3. chance to participate in making history in Canada. We have many problems right now. Housing is one of them. I It will be by working together and helping each other that we realize that much needs to be done. There are many who say that will accomplish the task. This is the way the Inuit culture survived people in the north are receiving subsidies, but there is one thing thousands of years in a harsh and unforgiving climate. I was that needs to be pointed out to the citizens of Canada and of Quebec pleased to see this type of co-operation during the unfortunate and that is that, for every dollar we give our Inuit friends, 97 cents crises of the floods in Quebec and Manitoba. always comes back to the south. They are participating in the economy. I want to close this speech by extending an invitation to those members of this House and those Canadians from across the Much remains to be done, particularly in Nunavut and in country who have not yet had the privilege to see Nunavut to come Nunavik, Abitibi, such as working together and visiting New and visit us. I guarantee that their experience will be unforgettable. Quebec. That is the Canadian economy. We will play our part. I wish to congratulate the hon. member on her election. [Editor’s Note: Member spoke in Inuktitut] [English] [English] Mr. Dick Harris (Prince George—Bulkley Valley, Ref.): Mr. Mrs. Elsie Wayne (Saint John, PC): Mr. Speaker, firstly I Speaker, I took great pleasure in listening to the hon. government would like to congratulate you on your new role as Acting Speaker. member talk about the beauty and the uniqueness of the part of the We look forward to seeing your smile up there every day. country she is from. Certainly I agree with her.
I want to congratulate the hon. member for Nunavut. I want to What is really interesting is that she basically confirmed every- say to her that I had an opportunity during the last sitting of the thing the Reform Party has been saying for so many years, that House to work with her people with respect to their needs. I look every part of this great country of ours is unique and distinct and forward to working with them once again. She is absolutely right. has its own unique and distinct character. It is very refreshing to She has a unique culture and she understands, like we understand hear a Liberal member agree with the Reform Party and take a over here, that there are regions of Canada with different needs. We route other than saying how unique and distinct the province of are there to help them. Quebec is. I thank the hon. member for bringing that up.
D (1235) Ms. Nancy Karetak-Lindell: Mr. Speaker, I know that Canada is a country known for respecting all the different nationalities that I look forward to meeting with the hon. member to discuss how come to it. We are very proud to be one of the original nationalities, we can assist her in creating the Nunavut territory and making it a but I believe that Canada has room for all the different people who better place for her people to live. come to this country. I am proud to be a part of it. 208
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The Address Mr. Charlie Penson (Peace River, Ref.): Mr. Speaker, I too instilled a confidence in all of us based on the characters of those would like to congratulate the new member for Nunavut on her who are chairing this House. maiden speech in the House of Commons. I want to thank the constituents of Simcoe—Grey. I am both I had the opportunity to travel to that part of the world a year and honoured and humbled that they chose me as their elected repre- a half ago with Canada’s foreign affairs committee, which was sentative. I fully intend to represent them to the very best of my studying the Arctic Council in that area. I was greatly impressed. ability in this House. It is a responsibility that I do not take lightly. I want to assure all my constituents that I have ample access and little restrictions with regard to my input in voicing their comments It is one of the few ridings in Canada that is bigger than my own. or concerns to our government. I commit to them that I will take I come from Peace River in northwestern Alberta and I can full advantage of this opportunity to voice their feelings. understand the difficulties in representing a riding of that size. I would be remiss and somewhat in trouble if I did not take time I was also struck by the impact of pollutants in Canada’s Arctic to thank my wife Sandi and our three children for the love and and how they can affect people living in the area. support they gave me throughout the election. It is something I know I can draw on throughout this term of office. I have worked long and hard as the trade critic for our party to try to resolve the European ban on leg-hold traps and products from I have made a special commitment to my riding, one that I hope those traps from entering Europe. My understanding is that an all residents will join me in no matter what their party affiliation. agreement has been reached. I am wondering if the hon. member That commitment is to work hard to maintain and enhance what we for Nunavut can tell the House whether she knows if it is believe to be the best place in Canada, and that means the world. I satisfactory in addressing the concerns of the people who live off ask my constituents to join in that challenge. the industry of fur-bearing animals and whether the agreement will satisfy them. My riding is a diverse and precious place just like the people within it. The agriculture industry in Simcoe—Grey represents the largest geographical make-up and is the largest single employer in D (1240 ) our riding. We are a rural riding that has made and will make an enormous contribution to Canada as a whole. The Acting Speaker (Mr. McClelland): The member’s time for questions and comments has expired. If the member could have a To touch on a few of those contributions, I remind the House of very very brief response, please do so. Sir Frederick Banting, as was mentioned earlier, the co-founder of insulin and a World War II hero. Recent contributions have been made by Sue Palmer and Paul Shaw, two of Canada’s Olympic Ms. Nancy Karetak-Lindell: Mr. Speaker, as far as I know that athletes. I could spend the rest of the day talking about our many is being put into place. We have had a bit of resistance to the contributions and how proud I am to be a part of Simcoe—Grey changing of the traps. As I said in my speech, Inuit are very riding but time does not permit it. adaptable people. We are trying to go with the change. I have to research this a little more because as I said I am very new at this and it is such a large territory with so many topics. I hope I can From our dairy, poultry, cattle and swine producers in Alliston, answer it more satisfactorily with a bit of research. Elmvale, Markdale and Stayner to the best apple growers in the world in and around Thornbury and Collingwood, these farms are an integral part of Canada’s food producing industry and deserve Mr. Paul Bonwick (Simcoe—Grey, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I too the support and confidence of the federal government. I am very want to congratulate the hon. member for Nunavut. I am sure she pleased to see that happening. will represent her riding with a passion unparalleled. An area of 1.9 million square kilometres certainly brings a new meaning to door to door at election time. Simcoe—Grey is a riding that leads in agricultural excellence. For this reason I am extremely pleased that the Liberal government has continued to support the agricultural community in the form of Mr. Speaker, I want to congratulate you on your recent appoint- marketing boards and quotas. ment. I take this opportunity to publicly congratulate the hon. member for Niagara Centre on his re-election as Speaker of the House. His remarks at orientation for the new members of Parlia- I am especially pleased to see the Minister of Agriculture and ment were both inspiring and motivating. I certainly thank him for Agri-Food leading this industry into the next century. As a result of those words of encouragement. I am sure I speak on behalf of all of his extensive background the minister understands that agriculture my new colleagues when I say that his words and actions have is the very foundation of this country and must be maintained no 209
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The Address matter what countries or trade agreements try to threaten that We have a scenic geography that is second to none. We have, and foundation. The farming community can be assured that I will will continue to develop biking, hiking and cross country trails that continue to support and endorse this agenda very aggressively. go on for hundreds of kilometres. We have the largest downhill ski area in Ontario, the friendliest and best run in North America. As I mentioned earlier, my riding is very diverse. Our industrial components had their very foundations shaken, some even de- I encourage all my colleagues, both sides, and extend an stroyed, throughout the mid to late eighties and early nineties. invitation to visit and see our great riding. I extend that same Now, thanks to a strong and fiscally responsible government, we invitation to industry. We want them too, and we need them. have provided a stable and strong economic environment to allow these industries to rebuild and strengthen their positions in Cana- My riding, like many other rural ridings, has been continually dian and world markets. At long last there is a glow of optimism losing its most cherished asset to larger urban centres. That most within industry. precious asset is our youth.
D (1245) Initiatives, like partnering with the YMCA, is a large step in the right direction. It offers our youth opportunities within the riding, not only to be employed but equally or more important to upgrade I also want to take this time to thank the Prime Minister and his their skills. It provides opportunities to which they may not previous government for having the fortitude to take us from what otherwise have access. This is a program of which I am proud to be was near certain economic ruin to a healthy deficit free economy in a part. four short years. In closing, I say to all my colleagues, irrespective of party, I look I am very grateful for the vision and direction of my colleague, forward to working with all of you in order that we may build a the Minister of Finance. His fiscal formula has been a remedy for country and a future for our children that is second to none. success. [Translation] I ask my colleagues, when dealing with what looks like a small surplus—it has certainly been talked about today and previously— Mr. Jean-Guy Chrétien (Frontenac—Mégantic, BQ): Mr. to remember one thing. The only reason they are in this place Speaker, I would like to begin with my congratulations to you for talking about a surplus is because of the Liberal platform over the having accepted the appointment to your position. I hardly need last three and a half years. The formula worked. remind you that this is only the third time in the history of this Parliament that a party in power has designated a deputy speaker Like all ridings across Canada, jobs are at the forefront of the from outside its ranks. This is a great honour, therefore, and your constituents’ minds in Simcoe—Grey. I commend the Prime friends and family, the members of your party and certainly those Minister for partnering with the private sector and leading trade who elected you will be very proud of you. missions abroad. I encourage the federal government, as I will encourage my riding, to take these types of proactive steps. I would also like to thank the new member for Simcoe—Grey. I listened closely to his speech and I feel he will make a good I am also pleased that we have a small surplus coming this year MP—or at least I hope so. He strikes me as being full of good will. to invest back into social programs that are not just important to He gave particular attention in his speech to agriculture and to Liberals but important to all Canadians. With regard to this unemployment. My riding seems rather like Simcoe—Grey, with a forecasted surplus, I strongly encourage the finance minister to number of farmers and many unemployed people. stay his course in dealing with the debt. For our children it is a legacy in which I would like to put a serious dent, of course always D (1250) keeping in mind Liberal values and social responsibilities. I would like to ask the valiant new member for Simcoe—Grey, We are known worldwide as a compassionate society with very who states his readiness to work with all members of this House, liberal values. Now that our house is back in order, it will be what concrete proposals he wishes to make to his Liberal caucus necessary for us to focus more strongly on these issues. that will be of any help whatsoever to the agricultural sector, which has seen its net earning power weaken year after year, particularly Simcoe—Grey is likely one of the most well-known tourist since 1993 when his party came to power, and to our young people destinations in Canada. If it is not, I will certainly make sure it is by in particular, with their abnormally high rate of unemployment? the end of this term. For this reason I was extremely pleased that the federal government, along with the Business Development And what has his government done to sustain employment since Bank of Canada, initiated a $500 million lending pool to help 1993? It has toughened up eligibility for unemployment insurance, accelerate development in private sector, four season type resort particularly for young people, counting not the number of weeks areas. but the number of hours. New workers have to accumulate 910 210
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The Address hours before they qualify. And worse still—my final point—the We all listened carefully and attentively to the throne speech as duration of employment insurance benefits has been shortened. was read by the Governor General. I would like to quote from this throne speech before I make some remarks in my response.
Since the hon. member for Simcoe—Grey gives me the impres- It states: sion of being very very positive in these, his first days in the House of Commons, what are the concrete proposals he will make to his This is the inauguration of a new Parliament. Let it be also the beginning of a new party caucus, to the Liberal party? era of national reconciliation, economic renewal and social justice—. While there are no easy solutions to the great problems facing our great country, there is a new will among Canadians to make a fresh start in the search for answers. [English] There is that phrase ‘‘fresh start’’. It goes on to state:
Mr. Paul Bonwick: Mr. Speaker, I question how well the hon. —a priority goal of my Ministers will be to breathe a new spirit into federalism member listened. I did touch on some of the initiatives of this and restore the faith and trust of all Canadians in the effectiveness of our system government. Certainly the YMCA partnering initiative is a major of government. step in the right direction. That is not just offering employment A constant process of consultation and co-operation must be restored. My opportunities, it is also offering training opportunities to provide Ministers are regularly meeting their provincial colleagues to eliminate irritants youth with a better lifestyle down the road. and to improve services to people where the federal and provincial governments have joint responsibilities.
In so far as the agriculture community is concerned, one of the This throne speech goes on to state: things that I have done in my riding, and I have certainly been The process of consensus-building will engage the private sector partners in an vocal in caucus as well, is to open up lines of communication. The era of co-operation on economic goals. In such a context, government would act as a member seems to have his facts in error. There has been an increase guide, a mediator, a catalyst, becoming less intrusive in the private sector but vigilant over the integrity of the national economy and of national standards—.The in the last two years in farming income, certainly in our area. three-part strategies of my Ministers is to restore fiscal responsibility, remove obstacles to growth and encourage new investment—This three-part strategy is aimed at renewing economic growth in order to provide jobs our people need and to With respect to opening lines of communication, I have over the address the continuing tragedy of youth unemployment— summer had the opportunity to have the Minister of Agriculture My government will enter into discussion with the provinces aimed at a and Agri-Food travel to our riding and meet with the farmers, the comprehensive overhaul of our pension system— brokers, the average people out there; not just their OFA represen- Consultations will also begin with the provinces to consider the most effective tatives, but the actual farmers. means of providing increased federal support for the improvement of—health care— I have taken the time this summer to travel throughout the riding Canadians are deeply troubled by the incidence of crime, especially crimes of and sit in on the Grey County Federation of Agriculture and the violence— Simcoe County Federation of Agriculture meetings. I bring that communication back to the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food It goes on and on. and I tell him how it has impacted. I am glad my Liberal colleagues here are applauding because this is the throne speech of Brian Mulroney. It sounds exactly the We have a very unusual situation which is going to be a great same. reward for the farming and agricultural communities and that is the minister who is leading us into the next millennium. He is a farmer, Some hon. members: Liberal, Tory, same old story. very well educated in the field and he is being met with an excellent response. I am certainly a pipeline to this caucus and to this government on behalf of the farming community in my riding. Mr. Nelson Riis: This is the same throne speech. They did not even bother to re-write it. It was a new governor general, that is all. This throne speech is worth nothing. This is absolute pap. Yap, yap, Mr. Nelson Riis (Kamloops, NDP): Mr. Speaker, I would like who cares? I looked through here to find out where the helicopters to indicate that I will be sharing our speaking slot with my hon. were mentioned because the government announced today that a colleague from Winnipeg North Centre. major priority is to purchase billions of dollars worth of helicop- ters. There is not a mention of helicopters in here. This is pap.
I join with my parliamentary colleagues to congratulate you, Mr. The Deputy Speaker: Order. The hon. member for Kamloops is Speaker, on your ascension to the Chair. I look forward to seeing a very experienced member and he knows that he is not to use props not only your smiling face but also your good judgment exercised in the course of his debate. While his point may have been one that during the next number of months. he feels he should make in this way, I am sure he knows it is wrong 211
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The Address to perhaps over-dramatize things by tearing up books and so on in there is a surplus we should go back and start mending the safety the course of his speech. I would ask him to restrain himself. net that has been ripped and torn apart by the Liberals and by the Conservatives before them. This should be a top priority if we are a He may recall that in the last Parliament we had incidents of this caring and decent country. kind and the Speaker intervened. I am reluctant to do so with such an experienced member, but I feel in the circumstances I should I look across at these people. They look like nice people but I do draw the rules to his attention. not think they care about people. If they cared about people, would they permit having over a million children—they are laughing, Mr. Mr. Nelson Riis: Mr. Speaker, I apologize. I got so worked up Speaker. I do not think this is funny. They are laughing at over a that I just could not help it. However, I do have another whole million children waking up this morning and living in poverty in version of it here. Pap is pretty cheap. the richest country in the world. The Conference of Catholic Bishops calls it a form of child abuse, that this is allowed to When I listened to the throne speech in the other place, I happen. The government has to accept responsibility for that. reflected back on the last number of years here. I go back to the Tories because it is basically the same group, only different faces. These people sit quietly in their places and give little speeches in the House of Commons about how nice the country is, how great I remember as a kid having my mother read me a story by Robert they are and how hardworking we are all going to be. This country Louis Stevenson, called The Wreckers where unscrupulous people is in a mess for a growing number of people. on a desert island would light fires on the rocks at night to lure ships into thinking it was a harbour. The ships would smash on the rocks, people would loot the ships and the people on the wrecked I acknowledge that luxury car sales are up. I acknowledge that ships would die. the Toronto Stock Exchange is at historic levels. I admit that corporate profits have never been higher and the banks are happier This reminds of the government. This reminds me of my Liberal than they ever have been in our banking history. At the same time friends. I wonder if they really know what they are doing to the increasing numbers of Canadians are living in poverty, increasing people of Canada. numbers of people are losing their jobs, their businesses and their homes. There is a reference in the throne speech to the deficit war being won. I suspect that if we listen carefully we would hear the Liberals What will the government do about this? Let us look in the cheering, saying ‘‘We won the deficit war. Yes, we were success- throne speech. We are positive, happy people trying to find some ful’’. goodness left in this world. There must be some goodness left in this government. There must be something in here about what it If we were to acknowledge the heroes of the deficit war over the will do about the 1.4 million people who do not have jobs today. Is last number of years it would not be the Minister of Finance and it mentioned? our Liberal colleagues across the way or our previous Conservative friends in the House of Commons. It would be the long line-ups of people waiting to get into hospital. It would be the thousands and I am being asked to talk about something new. The Liberals thousands of young people with huge debt loads on their shoulders would love me to shut up about this topic. They would love me to as a result of having to fund so much of their education. It would be stop talking about the 1.4 million people who are out of jobs? They the 1.4 million people who do not have a decent job or perhaps do would love me to stop talking about the people in Atlantic Canada not even have a job at all. It would be the millions who have who met our caucus and said they have not worked in four years part-time jobs and are barely scraping through to make ends meet because of this government’s policies on free trade, NAFTA and for their families. now the multilateral agreement on investment.
We could talk about others like the 10,000 people every month, There is a slow erosion in our country of what our parents and month after month, who declare personal or business bankruptcy, grandparents before them struggled to build for generation after who are walking away from their businesses and their homes. In generation into one of the best countries in the world. We have many cases they walk away from devastated families as a result of people by the hundreds of thousands lining up to come here the economic policies of the government. because of what they built and what the government is tearing down systematically budget after budget after budget. D (1300 ) This has to stop. We cannot sit here passively, talking about They are the true heroes of this deficit war. They should be the minor shifts in trade and changes to trade policy or tinkering and so ones who are first rewarded when there is a dividend. The minute on with various social programs. At the same time as we sit here 212
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The Address today, the Minister of Finance has tabled legislation in the House My hon. friend is right. The government announced that it will to radically change the way seniors receive their pensions. do something to help students some day in the future. Is this not nice? In fact it was more precise. By the year 2000 it will take some action. When we cut through all the red tape and all those provisions, what does it say? It says that hundreds of thousands of seniors in the future will receive fewer benefits. If my friends opposite were sincere about helping young people afford post-secondary education, they would go far beyond having a scholarship program. They would consider doing away with Is that the kind of country we are? Is that what we have come to? tuition fees in our post-secondary institutions. Is there anything in this throne speech about a national child care system? I heard minister after minister promise to introduce it. I heard Tory ministers promising to introduce it. Now it has reached I can hear my hon. friend now, that whining we hear all the time: a point where they were too embarrassed to mention it in the throne ‘‘Where are they going to get the money?’’ We always hear speech because they know nothing will happen in the budget. whining from across the way.
Things must change. I am pleased to be here with a group of very This is not a new concept. Other countries that put a priority on progressive New Democrats who on a daily base in the House will young people’s education have long had tuition free universities remind the government how it has been cruel and continues to be and colleges. It is not a new concept. It exists today. cruel to many Canadians. That has to change and change soon. Rather than give a tax break to one of the tens of thousands of Some hon. members: Hear, hear. very profitable corporations that do not pay a single cent in income tax year after year, why do we not close some of those loopholes? Then we could have some money for post-secondary education Mr. John Cannis (Scarborough Centre, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, let funding. me congratulate you on your appointment. We will hear comments any day now—we should be hearing I was not surprised to hear the member from the NDP trying to them in question period today—that the government has decided draw a parallel between us and former Prime Minister Brian the Cadillac helicopter purchase has been changed into a Chevrolet Mulroney. Aside from his actions in tearing up his speech, he failed and now we can afford it. We will be dishing out money now for the to draw to our attention that the Brian Mulroney and Conservative helicopters. Fair enough. That is what this job is all about. era left us with a humongous deficit of $42 billion that we inherited Helicopters will probably be a lot more important than helping in 1993. poor children. Buying helicopters will probably be a more impor- tant initiative than helping young people afford education. That is a It is nice of them to say that we have to do this and we have to do decision that the government might well take. that, but if we are adding debt and debt we will never be able to implement any of the programs such as the scholarship fund. If it does, let us recognize that as long as it tolerates more than Unfortunately he was not listening. one million children living in poverty it will have to wear on its shoulders what the Conference of Catholic Bishops reminded us is a form of child abuse. D (1305 ) Mr. Dick Harris (Prince George—Bulkley Valley, Ref.): Mr. He failed to bring forth that just last week one of the local papers Speaker, I listened to the compassion in the speech of the member in the greater Toronto area stated that employment levels were as for Kamloops as he talked about the people living at the poverty high as they were in 1989. They have been rising. They all talk line, the unemployed and the seniors who are scraping to get buy. about doom and gloom. They do not want to talk about the good news that has been happening out there. They do not want to talk about the fact that in 1993 unemployment rates were 11.5 p. cent I have to ask the member for Kamloops, who is looking forward and today that are at 9 p. cent and dropping. to his $1 million gold plated MPs pension, where his compassion was when he had the opportunity to say ‘‘No thanks. I have a conscience. I can’t accept that gold plated pension’’. Where was his We have to point out to the people that spending our way out of compassion then, when he gets a pension five, six or seven times this is not the solution. The member is saying ‘‘Let’s open the richer than the union members who have to work 30 years to get purse. Let’s spend. It doesn’t matter how much debt we will have. one-fifth of that? Where was his compassion? He is no different Let’s just keep adding to it’’. from the Liberals. He is no different from the Tories.
Mr. Nelson Riis: Was that a question, Mr. Speaker? It was kind The Reform Party gave $30 million back to the Canadian people of a rant, I thought. by giving up their gold plated pensions. We did it because we care 213
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The Address about Canadians. We care about the debt and we care about taxes. end the despair of people living without work or living with the Where is the compassion? daily fear of losing the job they may now hold.
The Deputy Speaker: The hon. member for Charlotte on a point It will not relieve the stress on families trying to juggle several of order. jobs, the responsibilities they have for the care of their children and the obligation they feel for their communities and their involve- Mr. Greg Thompson (Charlotte, PC): Mr. Speaker, the Reform ment in community life. It will not end the pain and suffering member is mentioning pensions. In defence of the NDP member I women feel on a day to day basis because they have to live with the simply want to say that he is working in this House for the threat of violence. Canadian people. He is not on pension. That is a ridiculous statement and is completely out of order. My sense of responsibility, as I make my first speech in the House of Commons, also comes from those who came before me, those who made a difference in the lives of people in my constitu- The Deputy Speaker: I think the hon member will realize that ency and indeed everywhere in this country. I am very fortunate to was not a point of order. It was a matter of debate. claim both Stanley Knowles and David Orlikow as my predeces- sors, two longstanding parliamentarians who made a real differ- Does the hon. member for Kamloops wish to respond to the ence. comment made by the hon. member Prince George—Bulkley Valley. If so, I will give him a moment. The five minute questions Who among us would not be familiar with the dogged persis- and comments period has expired so I would ask him to be brief. tence of David Orlikow who, for 26 years in this House, fought day in and day out for individuals and for policies that would improve Mr. Nelson Riis: Mr. Speaker, I will be very brief. My hon. people’s lives and ensure some measure of dignity, security and friend asked about the MPs’ pension. Perhaps the best thing he equality among all people of all regions of the country? I am proud could do would be to ask his own members of the Reform Party to to carry on his work. I am grateful for his contribution to Canada take their pensions. and I look forward to his ongoing help and advice.
D (1310 ) As my leader said yesterday, I also register a great deal of sadness at not being able to enter this Chamber and see my old friend and colleague, Stanley Knowles, sitting at the table. It was a Ms. Judy Wasylycia-Leis (Winnipeg North Centre, NDP): dream I had. Unfortunately it just was not to be. However we are Mr. Speaker, I begin my first speech in this assembly of democracy left with his legacy. The best way we can honour the work of feeling a tremendous sense of responsibility given to me by the Stanley Knowles is to carry on the work he fought for so long and people in my constituency of Winnipeg North Centre, a constituen- hard for 38 years in the House of Commons. cy which is recognized right across this country as a symbol, as an example of the struggle for dignity, equality and justice in society All of the issues and policies he fought so hard to achieve are today. now under attack by the Liberal government today. Canadians can be sure that we will fight to preserve a public pension system to They have given me a responsibility to fight for things that stop the erosion of security for seniors in their old age. We will be matter most to people, the things that were missing in the Speech there day in and day out. from the Throne, the most important issues that affect people on a day to day basis: the matter of jobs, the matter of quality health D (1315) care, the matter of good public education, the matter of hope for our young people, the matter of security for working families and the matter of dignity for our seniors. And we will try to do it as Stanley Knowles would have done it, with honour and dignity and integrity. Mr. Speaker, you can be sure that I will be raising many issues in this House but I will take my All of us in the NDP caucus feel the sense of responsibility critic areas very seriously. people have entrusted in us. We will keep our promise. We will not break our commitment to raise those issues day in and day out. We Twenty years ago when I was a parliamentary intern in this place will work as we have never worked before to ensure that their I remember hearing a member of Parliament, a member of the then voices are heard in this Chamber. Liberal government, saying ‘‘don’t worry about high unemploy- ment among women, after all it is men who are the primary wage When I was elected I asked my eight year old son what I should earners’’. say and do. He said ‘‘Tell everyone that we will make Ottawa rock’’. That is exactly what we intend to do day in and day out in Having been here for the past few days, having heard the Speech this Chamber. from the Throne, are we any further ahead today under this government, or is this government just more subtle about its We are here on behalf of people everywhere saying the rhetoric practice of continuing inequality and discrimination in our society that ran as thick as syrup in the Speech from the Throne will not today? 214
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The Address Is it not the case that the privatization and deregulation and colleagues in this caucus are trying to juggle our work as a off-loading and cutback policies of this government are contribut- members of Parliament and also our responsibility to our children. ing to hardship and pain and suffering and greater inequalities facing women in our society today? Many of us have young children. We are grateful for their support and we recognize that we are not unique. We represent If women’s equality is important would it not be the case that many families, many women in this country trying to juggle so this government would have long ago honoured its obligations much because of the inaction and the lack of attention of this under the human rights act to ensure that women in the federal government to those very important issues. public service were paid on the basis of equality? D (1320 ) Would it not be the case that instead of offering women half a loaf, this government would have said that before it considers In the name of Stanley Knowles and others who have fought so spending $12.2 million on bonuses for senior civil servants, it will hard for these issues, we will be as vigilant as possible to ensure ensure it meets its obligations and ensures equal pay for work of that every person in this country is able to live with security, equal value? dignity and hope for the future.
Mr. Speaker, you can also be sure that I will be raising, as much Mr. Dennis J. Mills (Broadview—Greenwood, Lib.): Mr. as possible, issues pertaining to health care. Medicare is our most Speaker, I want to congratulate the member for Winnipeg North treasured national program, a matter of pride, a matter of equality Centre for her maiden remarks in the House of Commons. As I and a matter of real meaningful intervention in the lives of people. listened to her I thought about the fact that many of the things she That program is in serious trouble and let us not forget it is because said today are things that, believe it or not, many of us on this side of the policies of this government. Let us not allow members of this of the House believe in as well. In my riding 50 p. cent of the government to suggest that it is another level of government’s people who voted for me are New Democrats. It is not a question of responsibility entirely. us being ideologically different.
In this Parliament we must not throw ideas out in a general Let us remember that this government in 1993 introduced the sense. We have to be a little more specific in how we get our ideas most regressive social policy in the history of this country, the into play. For example, the member for Kamloops came up with the Canada health and social transfer, and took the single biggest bite idea of cancelling tuition for post-secondary education. It is an out of health care in the history of medicare. interesting idea but I do not think we can table an idea like that on the floor of the House of Commons unless we can link some dollars For many of us it was absolutely galling to read the Speech from to it. If our ideas are going to have credibility I share the member’s the Throne and the statement ‘‘we will legislate to put back, to son’s view that we should try to make this place rock. We really increase funds for the Canada health care system to the tune of should. This place is a stiff, dull place at the best of times. $12.5 billion’’. We now are at the base floor of $12.5 billion. If we are really going to have credibility we need to have This government owes it to the people of Canada and to the numbers attached to some of these ideas. It is only through that future of medicare to ensure that our cash transfer payments for approach that we will have a reasonable chance of getting some of health care reflect the needs of health care, ensure that we are able these ideas into a debate with some credibility attached. to meet our obligations and that every Canadian is able to gain access to the best quality care in this country by virtue of being a I would like to ask the member a specific question. Does she member of a civilized country. think it is a reasonable request for when New Democrats throw a specific idea on the floor? For example, I do not believe Bob Rae or Deception, absolutely, because in fact the Speech from the Roy Romanow really wanted to close 100 hospitals over 18 Throne did also not mention that under the present formula of this months. I believe they had a fiscal dilemma on their hands. They government dollars from the federal government to provincial are both good people. When we come back with ideas on how to governments will actually decline in real terms. It does not look at correct it, I really think numbers should be attached. If the notion the growth in the economy. It does not consider growth in of forgetting about the fiscal framework of this country creeps back population. in, then we will have higher interest rates which will hurt us when we are trying to get jobs going. Could the member please respond to that? We will see in real dollar terms a continual drop in funding from this government to the provinces, thereby jeopardizing even further Ms. Judy Wasylycia-Leis: Mr. Speaker, if the member is the future of medicare in this country. wondering at all why some provinces are trying to do the best they can in terms of limited health care resources, he should start asking There are so many more issues to raise and so little time. I want his own Minister of Health how we can revamp the transfer to acknowledge the challenges we all face. I and many of my payment system so that provinces are not squeezed. He should 215
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The Address consider the fact that if we take $6.8 billion out of the health care I would like to begin by paying tribute to my predecessors who system, we will be left with enormous pressures on provincial have represented Mississauga West. Mississauga Centre became governments, on other organizations and on families. the new riding in the redistribution and the member previous for Mississauga West is now the member for Mississauga Centre; prior to her Dr. Bob Horner, a good friend and a wonderful man, It is absolutely critical that we all work together to reverse that unfortunately with the Conservative Party, although not his fault; trend. I look forward to help from the member in convincing the prior to him of course Doug Fisher, a good long time Liberal, and ministers of health and finance that we need to start increasing Tony Abbot before him. transfer payments. It may not be overnight that we get it back up to the $19 billion it was when they took office but certainly we could start today to reverse that so people are not forced into a difficult My riding has always sent a representative to the government, no decision. matter what party happened to be elected. Fortunately for me it has done so once again. The question was how much. We have been very specific on this issue and every other issue. We have said let us work now to Specifically I would like to thank the voters of Mississauga West increase the transfer payments to provinces at least to $15 billion. for their confidence in sending me to Ottawa to represent them in That is a small step toward improving the situation. It would make this place. Mississauga West is an interesting riding made up of a big difference. three very distinct communities, Streetsville, Erin Mills and Mea- dowvale. The perception of the riding is really different than the The member asked for specifics. Give me 24 hours and I could reality, as is probably true of many ridings. The perception is that it fill that time with the specifics we have suggested. Let me make is a riding with high average incomes. It is mainly family and small two very quick references. business oriented, a riding of baby boomers one might say.
D (1325) In addition we have our share of concerns and problems. I frankly take exception to a member of the House standing in his place and saying that because we are Liberals in the government we In the whole area of health care and caring for seniors and do not care about people. That is absolute nonsense. It is stuff that I children we have said over and over again that if the government have listened to for five years in opposition to the NDP in the would only look at it as something which is an important social parliament of Ontario. It is interesting that is almost déja vu in this investment and a job creation tool, we would be a lot better off in place. this country. There are thousands of jobs to be created if the government would just realize that it has a responsibility to ensure that there is a measure of quality care for everyone. We care about social housing problems. We need more in my riding. I was the president of the Peel non-profit housing while a Mr. Dennis J. Mills: And the source of funding? member of Peel regional council. I was on that board for nine years. We have women’s shelters and a food bank. We want to end the systemic violence against women and children, and no individ- Ms. Wasylycia-Leis: If the member would give me another few ual or political party in the House has cornered those concepts and hours I could certainly list a variety of measures, especially under ideas. the taxation system to deal with precisely that question. We have youth unemployment and under employment. I have One other quick example is that if we did something as simple as three sons in their 20s and I am concerned about their future the environmental conservation in energy efficiency in our own public same as all parents care about the future of their children. We have buildings, retrofit them, with a small investment we could create new Canadians, refugees who need help to adjust. We have crime. 4,000 jobs very quickly. That would not be a cost because it would We need to fight crime to take back our streets. We in the Liberal pay for itself in a short time. There are dozens and dozens of ideas. Party believe that we can do all of those things by providing a We will keep bringing them forward in the House. I look forward to balance. the member’s supporting our proposals.
That brings me to my point with regard the throne speech. We Mr. Steve Mahoney (Mississauga West, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I will not govern on the extremes of the right or the extremes of the too would like to offer either my congratulations or my condo- left. Rather we will bring a balance to the government of this great lences to you. I think your job is going to be interesting over the country. We hear calls to spend more from the left. I sat and next four or five years. I wish you well and I look forward to it. watched an NDP government in Ontario take the total debt of that province from $39 billion in 1990 to over $100 billion in 1995, I will be sharing my time with the member for Waterloo—Wel- which literally destroyed the confidence of one of our greatest lington who will speak after me. provinces. What I hear from the party of the left is to spend more. 216
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The Address
D (1330) numerous surveys, and give up their plans to destroy this unparal- leled success. I watched what the Tories did. It was interesting to hear the I suggest they join us to continue building this country. sound bite this morning on the news of the leader of what I believe is the fifth party in this beautiful establishment, the leader of the [English] Progressive Conservatives, who said that there was a sign over the Prime Minister’s door which reads ‘‘send it and we will spend it’’. I apologize for the quality of my French, but I think it is There was a sign over Mr. Mulroney’s door which read ‘‘we will important that we send the message to the third party in the House spend it before you send it’’. The NDP sign would say ‘‘we will that the people of Quebec are sending to you. We want Quebec to spend it. You send it and we will spend it again’’. That is the stay in Canada and help build this wonderful country. nonsense of getting into extremes. D (1335) I find the official opposition to be rather interesting. It is the [Translation] politics of Ross Perot. It uses analogies like Ross Perot would do when he says on television ‘‘If you want to know why the car won’t Mr. Pierre de Savoye (Portneuf, BQ): Mr. Speaker, I was very run, you have to open up the hood and look at the engine’’. I heard interested to hear what the hon. member from the Liberal Party had the Leader of the Opposition say that they have fixed one of the flat to say. In particular, in spite of his pronunciation, I appreciated the tires on the car. I heard the speaker from the Reform Party this few words he said in French. morning go through some incredible analogy about a ship at sea going down the Niagara River. He lost most Canadians and most He referred to Canada as unique. This is a word we are hearing people in the House before he got on board the particular ship. constantly nowadays. Unique and wonderful. And he referred to Quebec as a very unique province. This qualifier adds to the An hon. member: He failed geography. uniqueness. He said that Canada and Quebec should work together. He also referred to two referendums.
Mr. Steve Mahoney: Our plan is a balanced plan. We said What I would like— clearly and loudly during the election that when we achieve a surplus, 50 p. cent of that surplus will go to the kind of social [English] spending that the NDP talks about and for tax relief, and 50 p. cent will go toward debt reduction. Mr. Dick Harris (Prince George—Bulkley Valley, Ref.): Mr. Speaker, I just wanted to inquire—and I believe this is a point of It is a balanced plan that we believe the people of Canada believe order—whether it is customary for an official opposition member in. Clearly they have sent us here to administer that plan and to who is standing to receive the first question following a debate or deliver it. whether it is up to the Speaker’s discretion. Could you clarify that for me? I was standing in my place.
[Translation] The Deputy Speaker: I saw the hon. member. There were two members who rose. I noted that the hon. member had been given a I would ask my hon. friends in the third party to remember that question in questions and comments a short time ago and I thought Canada is a unique and wonderful country. From coast to coast, our it fair to give one to one of the other members who had risen. I am country embraces many regions, each different in its own way, choosing a round as best I can in exercising discretion. including the very unique province of Quebec. I do not think it is normal that necessarily the official opposition gets the first question on a government member’s question. What is Throughout our long history, we have learned to set our differ- normal is that an opposition member gets it. ences aside and work together to build a great country. A great and vigorous country where democracy flourishes, without sacrificing [Translation] minority rights, a country where citizens can move freely, a country where everyone can speak freely without fear of persecu- Mr. Pierre de Savoye: Mr. Speaker, I acknowledge and appreci- tion, a country that is the envy of the world. ate your customary wisdom. I also want to thank my other colleagues for their smiles and moral support. I believe all Canadians are prepared to reconcile their differences As I was saying, our Liberal Party colleague referred earlier to and continue building their country. Recent surveys show that the the two referendums which were held. I may remind him, however, vast majority of Quebecers want to stay in Canada. Quebecers want that on both occasions, promises were made to the people of to be a part of this great country. Quebec, and in both cases, these promises were not kept.
I would urge hon. members of the third party to respect the will Back to the Speech from the Throne. In 1994, the throne speech of the majority of Quebecers as expressed in two referendums and considered the possibility of being more open, in 1996, it proposed 217
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The Address strategies to that effect, but in 1997, we hear the exact opposite We realize that in order to be strong we have to deal with the from the Governor General. issue of separation and national unity. We have to send a message from sea to sea to sea which says we are united, that Quebec is a I would like to ask the hon. member of the Liberal Party two part of Canada. questions, and I would appreciate an answer. He wants Quebec and Canada to work together. Does the hon. member opposite acknowl- A vast majority of the people, at least a clear majority of the edge the existence of the people of Quebec? To work together, we people in the province of Quebec, has recently stated they are tired must first be who we are. If we are, we can work together in a of this issue. They are more concerned about the economy and they partnership, something we have offered to do since we came to this want to get on with building this great nation. House.
Does he acknowledge the existence of the people of Quebec? Mr. Lynn Myers (Waterloo—Wellington, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I That is my question. I am waiting for his answer. If he is consistent congratulate you on your appointment as a Speaker of this great in what he says, his answer will be a resounding yes. I will now House. It is an honour for you and deserving of both you and this listen to what he has to say. great institution.
[English] I represent the riding of Waterloo—Wellington, one of the four new ridings in Ontario and one of four new ridings in all of Canada. Mr. Steve Mahoney: Mr. Speaker, it is helpful for the member I am exceedingly proud, honoured and humbled to represent this to ask the question and then tell me what I should answer. I great riding. I am immensely grateful to my constituents for appreciate the fact that the two parties are fighting over an electing me to this 36th Parliament. I will undertake to serve my opportunity to respond to some of my comments. constituents to the very best of my ability and talent.
Let me say very directly to the member opposite that I certain- Waterloo—Wellington captures the essence of Canada. It con- ly—and I believe my government—recognize the province of tains a large city, the city of Kitchener. It contains small town Quebec as a partner within Confederation. We recognize it as a Ontario: Elora, Fergus, Jacobs, Elmira, Baden, New Hamburg, unique society. I personally recognize it as quite distinct. When we Harrison and Palmerston. It contains a number of smaller towns look at language, when we look at law, when we look at culture, and villages including St. Agatha, New Dundee, Wellesley, Dray- there is every reason for the country to embrace the province of ton, Clifford, Belwood, Conestogo, Maryhill and Breslau. It con- Quebec as a distinct society or a unique society, whatever word we tains that famous place called Punky Doodle’s Corner. want to put on it.
I was in fact cautioned before I made my somewhat embarrass- Waterloo—Wellington is a rich and diverse riding of urban, rural ing attempt at French. The reason I was doing it was that hopefully and suburban people. It contains people from all walks of life and within a year or so I will be a little more proficient and able to from all backgrounds. Approximately 30 percent of the wealth of address answers to the member in the French language. the riding is generated as a result of agriculture and agribusiness. Farming is important to our part of Ontario.
D (1340) I was born, raised and still live on the family farm. My great great grandparents first settled in the area in 1828, arriving via I was also told that I probably should not waste my time trying to Pennsylvania with the many Mennonites whose descendants still convert the Bloc Quebecois. I can see that is obvious. You have one inhabit the area. In fact the highest number and concentration of goal and one goal only and that is to destroy this country. Frankly old order Mennonites and Amish people in all of Canada reside in that is not what— my riding.
The Deputy Speaker: Order, please. I do not wish to interrupt the hon. member but he must address his remarks to the Chair. I While the histories of my constituents are rich, varied and invite him to do so and he may continue his answer. diverse, they are united in their love of and loyalty to Canada and all that we as Canadians stand for. We as Canadians are respectful of our institutions. We as Canadians are respectful of our symbols. Mr. Steve Mahoney: Mr. Speaker, the party opposite has a We as Canadians are respectful of our values. clear-cut goal. Having said that, I think it is important for those of us from English Canada, from communities like Mississauga which by the way is designated as officially bilingual because of Each of these helps to define us as Canadians. The Speech from the francophone community we have there, to say that we do not the Throne delivered on Tuesday by the Governor General will also want the polarization that party seeks. We want Canada to be contribute to our definition as Canadians. I want at this time to strong. thank the mover and seconder of that speech. 218
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The Address Canada will march confidently into the 21st century and the new We owe our children regardless of the status of their families the millennium. We have a plan and a vision which will enable Canada opportunity to learn, to grow and to become valued citizens without to be the very best in every way for its citizens. The foundation the burden of hunger. Attacking child hunger and the roots of youth of that plan is to balance the books. It is gratifying to hear that crime must therefore be a priority of this government in its attack the deficit will effectively be eliminated in the next fiscal year. on child poverty. I am pleased to see the progress made and the initiatives outlined in the Speech from the Throne. We owe this investment to our children, to ourselves and to the future of D (1345 ) Canada.
The trouble with doing something right the first time in over 30 I personally look forward to voicing the views of my constitu- years is that no one really appreciates how difficult it was to get ents in this great Parliament, and like all good parliamentarians I there, but I believe Canadians do appreciate the enormity of the will listen more and judge less. I look forward to working together sacrifice to bring the deficit from $42 billion in 1993 down to zero with my colleagues for the betterment of Canada. Finally I look in the next fiscal year. I believe Canadians appreciate that the many forward to helping to continue to build the strong foundation upon years of sacrifice will pay off in the end, and that end is soon. which this great country of ours stands, a foundation which will confer prosperity, safety and a sense of community for all Cana- Once we are in the surplus situation, the formula as has been dians into the 21st century. noted is an easy one to understand. One-half will support the programs Canadians want and deserve and the other half will go Mr. Dick Harris (Prince George—Bulkley Valley, Ref.): Mr. toward debt reduction and tax reduction. With this game plan Speaker, I listened to the hon. member from the Liberal Party talk Canada is poised to lead the industrialized world in economic about how the Liberal Party should be getting a lot of praise and growth this year and next and beyond. Our plan provides us with pats on the back for finally doing something right after the last 30 the fiscal stability necessary to allow change to be accommodated years. effectively and efficiently.
Let us look at what the Liberals have done right. What they have Jobs are being created at a remarkable pace but we need to do been practising for 30 years along with their friends in the Tory more. Unemployment, especially youth unemployment, is at an party and their friends in the NDP is more effective ways of unacceptable level. We need to look at establishing a national wrenching dollars out of the taxpayers’ pockets. They not only got apprenticeship style program for our young people, recognizing it right during the 35th Parliament, but they have perfected it. They there are provincial implications, but co-operation would be the have wrenched an extra $25 billion out of the pockets of Canadian key here. It would be an apprenticeship program that would marry businesses and Canadian workers by raising taxes in more than 36 the needs of society with the aspirations of our young people. It different areas. They got it right all right, but let us not let them would assist the private sector to meet its labour requirements and take any praise for it because the Canadian taxpayers are the ones ensure that young people would have the opportunity to acquire who had to bear the brunt of that tax torture. that important first job.
D Even before we turn our eyes to youth unemployment we need to (1350) reach out to the youth of our nation. Some of the very most vulnerable Canadians go to school each day hungry. As a former I am certain that the member has read the throne speech and he teacher I can say that a hungry child is much more likely to be a has a good handle on the economic numbers, better than the finance problem learner with poor school performance. A hungry child is minister had yesterday. I would like to ask the member the question much more likely to be a behavioural problem. Children with the finance minister could not answer. When exactly can we expect learning and behavioural problems are much more likely to become the first surplus after the balanced budget, and exactly according to drop-outs from school and from society. As the former chairman of the Liberal numbers, how much is that surplus going to be? When the Waterloo regional police I can also say that drop-outs from and how much? school and society often fall into the trap of crime and become young offenders. Mr. Lynn Myers: Mr. Speaker, to the hon. member opposite, I would not presuppose and begin to answer for the finance minister. The social and economic impacts of youth crime are unaccept- I would however say that it seems to me that the Reform Party just able to Canadians. They are demanding that we act proactively to does not get it. attack the roots of crime. In a country as wealthy as Canada with its physical and human resources, I find it unacceptable that even one child would go hungry. I believe that we as a caring society and a There is importance in getting our fiscal house in order. We as a caring nation need to put in place a program to eradicate child government have been able to do that over the past number of years hunger. Investments in that regard made today will pay enormous not only effectively but efficiently. That speaks volumes about the dividends tomorrow. ability of the government to take a terrible financial situation and 219
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S. O. 31 put in place the kinds of safeguards that will ensure prosperity not STATEMENTS BY MEMBERS only for this generation but for generations to come.
It seems to me that that groundwork now having been laid will [English] ensure that prosperity will flow and we can then all share fully in that surplus position. ROYAL CANADIAN LEGION [Translation] Mr. Jerry Pickard (Kent—Essex, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, this week is Legion Week here in Ontario. We as Canadians owe a great Mr. Jean-Guy Chrétien (Frontenac—Mégantic, BQ): Mr. deal to the men and women of the Royal Canadian Legion who in Speake, before making my comments to the member for Water- many cases have devoted their lives to the remembrance of their loo—Wellington, I would like to congratulate you on being re- fallen comrades as well as those who have made major sacrifices turned to your duties as Deputy Speaker of this House. You for the defence of our country. certainly deserve it, having proven your mettle in the 35th Parlia- Legion members across this land take up the torch daily to ment, and I trust you will be just as vigilant in the 36th. enhance the lives of seniors, youth, veterans and the disabled. Last I would address my remarks to the member for Waterloo—Wel- year alone $310 million were raised and spent in communities lington, an educator it seems. I understand that he cares a great deal across this country while three million hours of work were put in by about young Canadians and especially the young people in his volunteers and members of this great organization. riding. Does he consider the abnormally high rate of unemploy- May I express the thanks of millions of Canadians for the great ment among young people to be normal? The rate, unfortunately, work and dedication given to us by the Royal Canadian Legion did not decrease over the four years his government, the Liberal members. Party, sat in this House. On the contrary, it increased. The rate of unemployment among young people increased. * * * Is it the member’s intention to propose concrete solutions to his Liberal caucus for improving things for our young people, to FISHERIES enable them to find satisfying work that complements their studies Mr. John Duncan (Vancouver Island North, Ref.): Mr. Speak- at CEGEP or university? er, I have a little fish story for the House today. [English] A bunch of the good old boys, like Turbot Tobin and Walleye Woodward, were out with their chum the Federal Fisherman. What Mr. Lynn Myers: Mr. Speaker, in reply to the hon. member a time; no worries, no cares, just them and those Labrador sport opposite, I would simply say that any rate of unemployment is not fish. It was very educational for the Federal Fisherman. During his normal. We will have to, as will people from all parts of Canada time there he almost learned the difference between the salmon and and members on all sides of the House, work to ensure that the kind a sucker. of unemployment which we have now is brought down to an effective and appropriate level. I am sure the member for Burin—St. George’s urges the Federal Fisherman to make this an annual event so that every July he I would say to him that we need to continue to work very hard to spends his hard-earned dollars in Labrador. And just like this July, ensure that is the case. We will press not only government but also the minister can celebrate his return by flying over Prince Rupert caucus members to do that to ensure that the best kinds of jobs will and the salt water fishermen far below. be in place for Canadians. Is it not wonderful that the Prime Minister does not subtract days The Speaker: Debate. Of course I am going to recognize the spent fishing in Labrador from a minister’s shelf life. hon. member for Charlotte. However I was wondering, instead of having you begin and then interrupting your remarks for question * * * period, if you would begin your remarks when the debate recon- venes. Would that be acceptable to you? ARTS AND CULTURE Mr. Greg Thompson: Mr. Speaker, that would be more than Mr. Lynn Myers (Waterloo—Wellington, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, acceptable. Fergus, Ontario is located in my riding. Fergus among other things is noted for its architectural beauty which is surpassed only by its D (1355) natural beauty located as it is on the Grand River watershed. Fergus is also famous as the home of the Fergus Scottish Highland Games. [Translation] Recently an opportunity has arisen for the purchase and renova- The Speaker: My colleagues, as it is nearly 2 p.m., perhaps we tion of the Fergus building that houses the Grand Theatre, which a could begin with members’ statements. number of theatre groups call home. A fundraising campaign has 220
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S. O. 31 started and is called ‘‘the crowning touch to restore the downtown [English] jewel’’. Needless to say, I support this very worthwhile effort. The 297 bed facility will be the regional hospital for all of The initiative in Fergus underscores the necessity for Canadians Simcoe County and beyond. It is the result of the impressive wherever they live to support cultural and community endeavours Building on a Century campaign which saw the community raise such as this. The preservation, promotion and expansion of Cana- $15 million toward its construction. dian culture in all its many forms is both necessary and desirable. The new hospital features over $25 million in state of the art I applaud all of those who, like the residents in Fergus, are doing equipment and will be the location of Ontario’s newest breast something to support our culture. screening site.
* * * * * *
[Translation] DR. TOM BOLTON Mr. Bryon Wilfert (Oak Ridges, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, 25 years CENTRE DES FEMMES DE LAVAL ago this week Dr. Tom Bolton discovered the first evidence of Mrs. Maud Debien (Laval East, BQ): Mr. Speaker, I take black holes while working at the David Dunlap Observatory, special pleasure today in paying tribute to the Centre des femmes University of Toronto, located in Richmond Hill. de Laval, which is celebrating 15 years of operation. A black hole is a collapsed star of such mass and density that The centre, whose main goal is to improve living conditions for nothing can escape from it, not even light. There had long been women, provides shelter, counselling, information and support to speculation that black holes existed, but Dr. Bolton produced the all women in Laval. first credible evidence. This is an event of great importance, not only to my riding of Be it through information and training or through innovative Oak Ridges, but also to Canada. We are in the forefront of great programs, the Centre des femmes de Laval brings women together scientific discoveries, working with the largest telescope in Cana- to discuss their individual situations, look for solutions and, more da. importantly, break down the isolation women often unwillingly find themselves in. The University of Toronto boasts one of the world’s greatest programs in astrophysics and with continued support, not only D (1400) from the federal government but also from committed private supporters, I am sure we can look forward to maintaining Canada’s As a founding member of the centre, I want to congratulate the leading edge discoveries and contributions to international space board of directors, the staff and especially the volunteers who work exploration. in this key player in the Laval community. I congratulate Dr. Bolton. Long live the Centre des femmes! * * * * * * PROSTATE CANCER [English] Mr. Ted White (North Vancouver, Ref.): Mr. Speaker, prostate ROYAL VICTORIA HOSPITAL cancer is the most frequently diagnosed cancer among Canadian men, with an estimated 80 men being diagnosed every working Ms. Aileen Carroll (Barrie—Simcoe—Bradford, Lib.): Mr. day. Its incidence is 40 p. cent greater than that of breast cancer and Speaker, I rise in the House for the first time in my new career as a only lung cancer kills more men than does prostate cancer. federal politician to congratulate the citizens of my riding of Barrie—Simcoe—Bradford for their magnificent community spirit Prostate cancer, because it strikes one man in eight, is, like and fund-raising efforts which have resulted in the development of breast cancer, a serious disease which affects huge numbers of the new Royal Victoria Hospital. Canadian families. Yet prostate cancer, which kills 4,000 men each year, was ignored in the government’s throne speech. It continues I was honoured to participate on September 13 with the Lieuten- to receive just one-ninth of the funding of breast cancer research ant-Governor and the minister of health for Ontario as we cele- and one-fiftieth of the research money given to AIDS. brated together this splendid new facility. September is prostate cancer awareness month so let us begin [Translation] adequately funding prostate cancer research, not at the expense of funding for other cancer research, but at least to the same levels. It was truly a happy occasion. We owe it to ourselves, our families and our constituents. 221
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S. O. 31 [Translation] We are also still waiting for the implementation of a true shipbuilding policy, as promised by the Liberals four years ago. Let us hope that World Maritime Week will be a wake-up call for the CAPE PROJECT Liberal government.
Mr. Yvon Charbonneau (Anjou—Rivière-des-Prairies, Lib.): * * * Mr. Speaker, we have reason to be proud of Canada’s youth. THRONE SPEECH On September 19, the Canadian Space Agency in St. Hubert hosted an event involving the elementary and high school students Ms. Raymonde Folco (Laval West, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, as the taking part in the CAPE project. This project is aimed at sending member for Laval West, I want to congratulate the government on experimental equipment primarily designed for protein crystalliza- its Speech from the Throne to open the first session of the 36th tion to the MIR station. Parliament of Canada in which it set out its priorities for the years ahead. The experiments were developed by young students from across Of particular note is its wish to maintain national unity. Our the country in co-operation with their teachers and with scientists government should be congratulated on its clearly stated intention who may be their colleagues 15 years from now. to contribute to the effort by federal, provincial and territorial governments to develop a more collaborative approach to strength- As the member representing the Minister of Industry at this ening and modernizing Canada’s social union. event and a teacher by profession, I have seen for myself that we need not worry about the next generation of Canadian scientists. In order to build a stronger Canada, our government will invest in children, in quality care and good health, and will take steps to [English] ensure the safety of our communities. These are some of the goals that we believe will help bring all Our government is investing in such programs as CAPE to Canadians closer together as we head into the next millennium. ensure that more students have better opportunities in finding jobs and more opportunities to learn the skills that they will need in * * * building Canada’s future. [English] [Translation] VANCOUVER KINGSWAY I hope the experiments leaving for MIR today, which testify to the inquisitiveness and ingenuity of Canadian youth, will be an Ms. Sophia Leung (Vancouver Kingsway, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, unqualified success. I want to convey to you and to this House that it is a great honour to represent Vancouver Kingsway in this Parliament. One of the most important strengths of Vancouver Kingsway is * * * its cultural diversity. From around the globe, communities of Italian, Portuguese, Korean, Japanese, East Indian, Filipino, Chi- D (1405) nese, Greek and others have made my riding their chosen home. Through their cultures and the traditions they have enriched this country. WORLD MARITIME WEEK As the first Asian Canadian woman to be elected to Parliament, I Mr. Antoine Dubé (Lévis, BQ): Mr. Speaker, this week we are am proud to be their voice here in Ottawa and to champion their celebrating World Maritime Week and I want to take this opportu- diversity. nity to draw to the attention of all members the future of the Lévis shipyard. * * *
I would have preferred to talk about good news this week. BRITISH COLUMBIA Unfortunately, the government’s lack of action in the shipbuilding Mr. Chuck Strahl (Fraser Valley, Ref.): Mr. Speaker, today we sector is just as bad as it was during the Liberals’ first mandate. read of the sad and unfortunate conclusions of a one-time promi- nent Conservative senator who, having spent a lifetime trying to Indeed, Davie Industries executives have been waiting for change the federation from within, is now reduced to bitter months for a positive reply to a request for financial security from mumblings about B.C.’s separation from Canada. What went the Export Development Corporation, in order to execute a wrong? $125-million contract with Petrobras, a Brazilian crown corpora- tion. The refitting of the Spirit of Columbus platform would Perhaps it started with the Liberals and the national energy immediately create 400 jobs. program, an arrogant, me first initiative that gouged the west and 222
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Oral Questions catered to the east. Perhaps the fault lies with the Conservative We can all contribute to improving our own chances for wellness leader, the leader of her own party who, bereft of ideas for Canada, and reduce the future cost for medicare by making the right choices clings desperately to the distinct society clause as a solution to now. national unity. * * * First it was a report from the B.C. adviser on national unity warning of the potential of western separation. Now a prominent INCOME TAXES senator has turned her back on her own party, its leader and the centrist ideas for which it stands. Mr. Jim Jones (Markham, PC): Mr. Speaker, taxes are too high. While progress has been made in lowering the deficit, it has It is time to listen up, Mr. Prime Minister. If he continues to come at the expense of jobs and higher taxes. ignore the concerns of western Canada, if he refuses to recognize Canada as a federation of equal provinces and citizens, if he If Canadians experience increases in their incomes, personal continues to ignore the pleadings for parliamentary and Senate income taxes, EI and CPP premiums reduce those incomes by reform, he will have sown the wind only to reap the whirlwind. two-thirds. Taxes in Canada from all levels of government account for more than one-third of the GDP. CPP hikes proposed by this government with current EI premiums will further burden already * * * over taxed Canadians.
D (1410 ) Clearly lower taxes mean both economic and employment growth. As a nation that depends on bilateral trade with the United States, the widening tax gap between the two countries continues to THE LATE DUDLEY GEORGE damage our standard of living. Mr. Gordon Earle (Halifax West, NDP): Mr. Speaker, yester- If the government is serious about jobs for all Canadians in this day I attended an event marking a tragic day in our country’s new economy, it must now get serious about tax cuts and lower EI history. Two years ago Dudley George was shot dead. He was one premiums as Canadians have earned this right. of 40 people peacefully protesting at Ipperwash. These unarmed citizens ended up facing the Ontario Provincial Police riot squad We are the only political party that is advocating tax cuts now. and the tactical weapons squad. The responsibility for this anti-na- tive act lies with the current Ontario government. The Speaker: Yesterday I shared with you my intention, with your help of course, to make question period a little more brisk, if Just two days ago the government in the throne speech com- you will. I want to thank all of the interveners yesterday, those who mitted itself to ‘‘develop relationships with aboriginal peoples put the questions and those who gave the answers. I especially want based on the principles of partnership, transparency, predictability to thank the Prime Minister who pointed out that he understood that and accountability’’. Transparency and accountability, enough I would be intervening when a certain amount of time went by. words. Today I am going to try to tighten it up just a little bit more so that we get in both the question and the answer in 35 seconds and I I call on the government to support the call for a full public know that we are all going to co-operate. With that I am going to inquiry in Ontario. Each day that passes without a full public recognize the hon. Leader of the Opposition. inquiry into Ipperwash darkens the stain of the blood spilled at that tragic event. ______
* * * ORAL QUESTION PERIOD OSTEOPOROSIS D (1415) Mr. Sarkis Assadourian (Brampton Centre, Lib.): Mr. Speak- er, studies show that elderly people can minimize the loss of bone [English] that may lead to osteoporosis, a debilitating bone disease that affects thousands of Canadian seniors by consuming the higher THE DEBT amount of calcium and vitamin D now recommended by the Osteoporosis Society of Canada. Mr. Preston Manning (Leader of the Opposition, Ref.): Mr. Speaker, in 1992 the Mulroney government passed the debt servic- I urge people over 50 in my riding of Brampton Centre and ing and reduction act. It established a special account to pay down throughout Canada to add at least one extra serving of dairy the debt from a special surplus. Of course, Mulroney continued to products to their daily menu to help keep their bones and teeth spend so there was neither a surplus nor any debt reduction. The strong. whole thing was a shell game. 223
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Oral Questions Now this prime minister promises to put 50 percent of any promise a cent of tax relief to those families or those businesses. surplus into a special fund and to pay down the debt and give tax What it promised are 29 new spending proposals from the govern- relief from that account while continuing to spend at record levels. ment.
My question for the prime minister is how is his shell game any My question to the prime minister is who does he think would different from Mulroney’s shell game? spend any surplus more wisely, Liberal politicians and bureaucrats or those families and businesses? Right Hon. Jean Chrétien (Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr. Speak- er, the difference is that during Mr. Mulroney’s time he moved the Right Hon. Jean Chrétien (Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr. Speak- deficit up to $42 billion. We are reducing it to zero. That is a very er, the Leader of the Opposition wanted me to speak about equality big difference. According to the Speech from the Throne it will be of the provinces. I am for that. I am for equality of individuals. done in the next year. We are not there yet. That is exactly why I said yesterday that to make sure that everybody in Canada is equal we will put some of the money in the It is amazing the satisfaction I am getting today standing in the surplus to give a chance for students to go to university so they will House seeing the Leader of Opposition very preoccupied with the be on an equal footing with the children of the rich people of fact that we have been very successful in what we did with the Canada. finances of the nation.
D (1420 ) Mr. Preston Manning (Leader of the Opposition, Ref.): Mr. Speaker, anybody could have done better than the federal Tories in reducing the deficit. Mr. Monte Solberg (Medicine Hat, Ref.): Mr. Speaker, Re- formers believe that any surpluses belong to Canadians and they are really demanding accountability. To lay to rest the confusion What the prime minister failed to mention is that the national over the government’s 50:50 promise, will the finance minister debt is $82 billion higher than it was under Mulroney. What he fails provide a separate accounting for the surplus in all future budgets to mention is that his government is ripping $3,000 more from and will he commit to itemizing in the 1998 budget all the new every average Canadian family in taxes than Mulroney did. And on spending announced today? A simple question. top of that there are 1.4 million unemployed. Hon. Paul Martin (Minister of Finance, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, it If the prime minister is not playing a shell game, if he wants to is axiomatic and very clear that in every budget the government make himself different from Mulroney, then why does he not pass accounts for government spending. I can assure the hon. member the bulk of any surplus on to Canadian taxpayers? that I will do that. Right Hon. Jean Chrétien (Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr. Speak- er, if we reduce taxes we are not reducing the deficit. That is The Leader of the Opposition drew the comparison between the something people will understand. We said that in the end we will Tories and the current government and asked what some of the be in a position of surplus. It is coming but we are not there yet differences were. There are a multitude. There is another differ- because there are still some problems in the nation. ence. I believe that the then minister of finance, Michael Wilson, wanted to cut the deficit but he did not get the support of his prime minister, and I did. When I look at the program of the Leader of the Opposition, he promised to put $4 billion more into health care. He is a spender. Mr. Monte Solberg (Medicine Hat, Ref.): Mr. Speaker, we are glad to see that the finance minister is making up with the prime That was not a promise from us. We have done it. Right at the minister. That is wonderful. beginning of the campaign we said that next year the provinces would receive $700 million more and the year after $1.4 billion and the same thing in the years to come. So over the period of our term In 1993 the finance minister said no government can operate we will have given more back to medicare. effectively when its projections fall consistently short of the mark. Yet now even he refuses to set a mark. Is this 50:50 shell game a Mr. Preston Manning (Leader of the Opposition, Ref.): Mr. deliberate attempt to bamboozle the public and to pick the pockets Speaker, the prime minister has done it to health care. He has cut of the Canadian public? That is what we want to know. the transfer from $19 billion to $12 billion. That is a fact. The Speaker: My colleague, I am having a bit of trouble with There are young families out there in which both parents are the phrase ‘‘a deliberate attempt to bamboozle’’. I want to caution working and they cannot make ends meet because of high tax the member to please choose his words judiciously. levels. There are businesses out there that would hire these younger workers we are all concerned about except that the government is Hon. Paul Martin (Minister of Finance, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, if charging excessive payroll taxes, and the throne speech did not anybody is going to make up with anybody, perhaps the hon. 224
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Oral Questions member might make up with his leader whom he consigned to the tion it will use. At this point, it seems obvious that each scrap heap of history yesterday. government will opt for different methods.
Let me be very clear. We are going to balance the budget in There are many ways to consult the public. We think that we can 1998-99. There are going to be surpluses. We are going to be in a consult the public if necessary. I never said we would do so, and we position to cut taxes. We are going to reduce debt and we are going never determined what form this would take. to invest in the future of Canadians. We will set this out in the budget and in the interim between now and then in the fiscal update We are perfectly happy to see the provinces select different we are going to consult with Canadians as to their priorities. methods to consult their citizens, and we hope that at some point they will adopt resolutions in their respective legislative assem- blies, each province according to its own lights. * * * As I said before, as soon as they have presented these resolu- [Translation] tions, a similar resolution will be put before this House, and then we will discuss— CALGARY DECLARATION The Speaker: I am sorry to interrupt the Right Hon. Prime Mr. Gilles Duceppe (Laurier—Sainte-Marie, BQ): Mr. Minister, but the hon. member for Temiscamingue has the floor. Speaker, yesterday, the Prime Minister made a very telling state- ment on the consultations to be held by the provinces on the Mr. Pierre Brien (Témiscamingue, BQ): Mr. Speaker, my Calgary declaration. The Prime Minister said that the federal question is for the Prime Minister. government might consult Quebecers, going around the Govern- The premier of Newfoundland has stated that his consultation on ment of Quebec and the National Assembly. the Calgary declaration would be done via the Internet, a 1-800 line, or at riding meetings. I simply want to ask the Prime Minister whether he knows how the other provinces will consult their citizens on the Calgary Does the Prime Minister, who claims to be so concerned about declaration. clarity and transparency, consider this method of consultation to be sufficient and satisfactory? Right Hon. Jean Chrétien (Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr. Speak- er, the provinces have used or will use all kinds of ways to consult Right Hon. Jean Chrétien (Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr. Speak- their citizens, and I think the Canadian government has the right to er, the premier of Newfoundland is the one answerable to the voters consult Canadians throughout Canada. However, I did not say we of Newfoundland, and it is up to him to defend his proposal. would. According to what I have read so far, he has the agreement of the Some hon. members: Oh, oh! opposition parties to do this. If he is making use of a modern method of consultation, that’s fine. Each province will have its own Right Hon. Jean Chrétien: No, that is not what I said. I said, in method of consultation. response to a question by the member who asked us to do so immediately, that I did not reject the idea. First we will see what When the premier of Newfoundland faces his legislature, he will the provinces that agreed to work on this will do, and then we will have to justify his consultation formula. It is not up to me to let you know. However, no one can deny the right of the Parliament approve or disapprove of it, that is up to his legislature. of Canada to consult the voters who elect the members of this Parliament. Some hon. members: Oh, oh.
Mr. Gilles Duceppe (Laurier—Sainte-Marie, BQ): Mr. Right Hon. Jean Chrétien: And if the Government of Quebec Speaker, the Prime Minister talks about all kinds of ways. We saw a wants to consult the people of Quebec on the same subject, it can number of these mentioned in the newspapers. But the Prime do so, only it is up to the Government of Quebec to decide, not us. Minister did not specify what kind of means. Mr. Pierre Brien (Témiscamingue, BQ): Mr. Speaker, we are How could he, in a major speech he made yesterday, lend such very pleased to hear that it is not up to the Prime Minister to decide credibility to strategies as yet unknown, to consultations which how the provinces are to conduct their business. At last. may or may not be reliable? How can he try to go around the Government of Quebec and the National Assembly without know- Some hon. members: Hear, hear. ing what kind of consultations the provinces will hold on the Calgary declaration? Mr. Pierre Brien: Since the Prime Minister does not, when it comes down to it, know all that much about how Brian Tobin and Right Hon. Jean Chrétien (Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr. Speak- his colleagues are going to hold their consultations on the Calgary er, each provincial government will decide what form of consulta- declaration, how can he use that consultation, whose methodology 225
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Oral Questions he does not know, as a pretext, in a major speech, to make yet Ms. Alexa McDonough (Halifax, NDP): Mr. Speaker, no another threat against Quebec? amount of wriggling and slithering on this issue is going to get the government off the hook. The minister of fisheries knows perfectly Hon. Stéphane Dion (President of the Queen’s Privy Council well that Canadians were invited to testify and they failed to testify. for Canada and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, there is of course no connection. I believe the hon. My question to the minister of fisheries is when is his govern- member is saying that the procedure relating to a referendum on ment going to stand up for the interests of Canadian fishers in secession should only be determined by the secessionist govern- coastal communities? ment. This is probably what the member has in mind, but he certainly cannot name one country in the world which would accept Hon. David Anderson (Minister of Fisheries and Oceans, such a thing. Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I think it is time for the hon. leader of the New Democratic Party to speak with the leader of the New Democratic The hon. member must realize that the consultation process Party in British Columbia. carried out by the premier of Newfoundland has to do with a policy statement which has no constitutional impact and which only We have consistently had from the New Democratic Party of involves that particular province, for the time being. In the case of British Columbia rejection of the contacts with Americans that I a secession, the territory of Quebec would be excluded from the have made, with every senator from Alaska, Washington state and Canadian legal order and from Canadian federal institutions, Oregon, with representatives of the White House, representatives something which cannot be achieved through such a procedure. of the state department and the governors of Oregon, Washington and Alaska. They have said no to such contacts. * * * However, there is one committee in the United States which we D (1425 ) believe to be a domestic affair of the congressmen in the United States and she then says that of course we have not done enough. Is [English] she following the policies of the New Democratic premier or is she announcing a different policy here? FISHERIES
Ms. Alexa McDonough (Halifax, NDP): Mr. Speaker, my * * * question is for the prime minister. TRADE Our west coast salmon fishery is in dire straits. British Colum- bians, indeed all Canadians, are offended at the federal govern- Hon. Jean J. Charest (Sherbrooke, PC): Mr. Speaker, my ment’s weak stance in this dispute. question is for the Prime Minister. Last week a congressional committee on the Pacific salmon treaty heard testimony in Washington from key stakeholders. He is preparing another team Canada trip for January. The Prime Members of this House deserve to know that Canada was invited to Minister will know that notwithstanding these trips, trade with testify at those hearings. Brazil has gone down 10 percent, with Mexico 19 percent, Indone- sia 11 percent, China 24 percent. The Canadian Chamber of Why did the prime minister fail to send representatives to testify Commerce in the meantime continues to repeat and argue that these at these hearings and to stand up for Canada’s interests? trade barriers within Canada cost Canadian families on average $1,000 per year and cost us jobs. Hon. David Anderson (Minister of Fisheries and Oceans, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I am disappointed that the hon. member, whose When will the Prime Minister show the same enthusiasm of experience has been in a provincial legislature rather than in the breaking down trade barriers within Canada as he shows for national legislature, would not understand that in Canada, as in the charting up air miles outside Canada? United States, it is a decision of the committee itself as to who will appear before it. We have no more right to tell American commit- Right Hon. Jean Chrétien (Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr. Speak- tees who they will have before them than they have to tell our er, when I travel abroad I travel with all the premiers of Canada committees of this House who to have before them. who are always very delighted to travel on team Canada. The business community of Canada is lining up to be on the trip. D (1430) In terms of trade barriers within Canada, the Minister of Industry I find it strange that the hon. leader of the New Democratic Party has worked very hard with the provinces and the provinces have would believe in a principle that would allow other governments worked very hard among themselves to come close to an agree- the right to attend all committee hearings of the House of Com- ment. If the hon. member is telling us not to respect the provincial mons and Senate. governments and just impose a regime, we will look into that. 226
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Oral Questions Hon. Jean J. Charest (Sherbrooke, PC): Mr. Speaker, I think together to have a collective agreement that will be beneficial to the Prime Minister has his priorities wrong. My question was not both the union and the post office. for the premiers accompanying him. It was not for the business community that is going to be accompanying him. It is for the * * * taxpayers who will be paying the bill for the people on the trip; the people who pay $1,000 a year on average because of trade [Translation] barriers in Canada. CALGARY DECLARATION An internal memo of the Department of Industry established that Mr. Michel Gauthier (Roberval, BQ): Mr. Speaker, we learned only 13 percent of the trade barriers had been struck down in the through the newspapers that the premiers, including the premier of last agreement. When is the federal government going to assert its Newfoundland, have decided to consult their fellow citizens re- powers and leadership and deal with internal trade? garding the Calgary declaration. To this end, they will use fax machines, 1-800 lines and the Internet. These are all modern tools, Right Hon. Jean Chrétien (Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr. Speak- as the Prime Minister said, but they are ill-chosen for a serious er, I would like to inform the leader of the fifth party that when we consultation on what should be a serious issue. travel on these trips all the business people pay for their trips. There is no big cost to the government. Does the Prime Minister realize that the fact that the premiers have chosen such inadequate tools for a consultation of this nature Wherever we go everyone says it is the biggest trade mission says a lot about how little importance they attach to their own they have ever received. There is nothing better than having all the Calgary declaration? premiers and the Prime Minister of Canada working together to Hon. Stéphane Dion (President of the Queen’s Privy Council create jobs for Canadians. However, I know the leader of the fifth for Canada and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs, Lib.): party is not in favour of the provinces and the federal government Mr. Speaker, the premiers will use the means they deem appropri- working together. ate to consult the public about the seven principles set out in the Calgary declaration, which the government of Canada fully sup- * * * ports. Mr. Michel Gauthier (Roberval, BQ): Mr. Speaker, given the CANADA POST openness displayed by the government, I have a supplementary for the minister. Mr. Jim Gouk (West Kootenay—Okanagan, Ref.): Mr. When will we be told that a premier representing an English Speaker, Reform has just learned that the conciliator in the Canada speaking province has decided to retain the services of Jojo the Post labour dispute filed his report with the minister last Monday. fortune teller to find out what the public in his province thinks? When was this government planning to get around to telling the Canadian people that they are now on a 21-day countdown for a Hon. Stéphane Dion (President of the Queen’s Privy Council national postal strike? for Canada and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, premiers will choose the appropriate means to consult D (1435 ) the public.
Hon. Lawrence MacAulay (Minister of Labour, Lib.): Mr. * * * Speaker, the conciliation officer has reported to me. I will evaluate [English] the report and make a statement before October 7. CANADA PENSION PLAN Mr. Jim Gouk (West Kootenay—Okanagan, Ref.): Mr. Speaker, a postal strike is extremely devastating for Canadian Mrs. Diane Ablonczy (Calgary—Nose Hill, Ref.): Mr. Speak- business and non-business alike. A strike shuts down Canada’s er, today this government is proposing to introduce the single entire mail delivery system. largest tax increase in history. Working Canadians will be forced to pay up to $3,300 each year in the form of CPP payroll taxes for a The minister has already interfered in the bargaining process and maximum pension of only $8,800 a year when they retire. he has failed to notify the Canadian public of the imminence of this How can the Minister of Human Resources Development sup- strike. What is he going to do to protect Canadians from the impact port such a bad so-called investment for Canadians? of this national postal strike? Hon. Paul Martin (Minister of Finance, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, Hon. Lawrence MacAulay (Minister of Labour, Lib.): Mr. some time ago the chief actuary projected that unless the federal Speaker, I am certainly disappointed that my hon. colleague feels government and the provinces did not come together to deal with that there is going to be a strike. The collective bargaining process escalating premiums, he projected that they would have to go to can work and will work. I certainly encourage both parties to work over 14 percent in order to preserve the Canada pension plan, that 227
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Oral Questions in fact financial chaos would ensue. As a result of that, together Mr. Gilles Duceppe: He said so yesterday. with the provinces—let me be very clear—the federal government put in place a plan for more funding. Yes, it will take the premiums Mr. Michel Bellehumeur: Yesterday, that’s right. to 9.9 percent. That is substantially lower than the 13 percent Hon. Stéphane Dion: We can pin our hopes on the fact that recommended by the Reform Party. Canada is a country Quebecers want to keep. And that is why the Bloc Quebecois finds the Calgary declaration so annoying. It is Mrs. Diane Ablonczy (Calgary—Nose Hill, Ref.): Mr. Speak- annoying because Quebecers want to remain in Canada. er, when the CPP was introduced, the government claimed that Canadians would never have to pay more than 5.5 percent of their Some hon. members: Hear, hear. earnings to finance the plan, but now we see 9.9 percent, nearly double its prediction. Hon. Stéphane Dion: And that is why they far prefer anything advancing Canadian unity to anything calculated to destroy the How can the minister justify making Canadians pay more in CPP country, as one of the Bloc Quebecois members put it, and I am not taxes when he has actually admitted that his chief actuary of the distorting his words. fund has said that there is no guarantee that increase will give the return that Canadians have been promised? Mrs. Suzanne Tremblay (Rimouski—Mitis, BQ): Mr. Speak- er, perhaps the minister was listening to something else yesterday when the Prime Minister gave his own speech in reply to the D (1440 ) Speech from the Throne. Hon. Paul Martin (Minister of Finance, Lib.): Quite the I have another question for the minister. Daniel Johnson, who is opposite, Mr. Speaker. The chief actuary has said that as a result of recognized as a staunch federalist, is one of the few individuals in the actions taken by ourselves and the provinces, as a result of the Quebec right now who can go around and defend, in any event, he fuller funding, as a result of some of the changes to the benefits, in is one of those defending the Calgary declaration. In order to sell fact we have now preserved the Canada pension plan for future the idea in Quebec, he tells Quebecers that the unique character generations of Canadians, for those who will receive disability recognized in Calgary is the same thing as distinct society. pensions which they would not receive from the Reform Party, for those who would receive maternity benefits which they would not Mr. Minister, do you support— receive from the Reform Party. The Speaker: Dear colleague, I think he heard the question. In fact we have put in place along with the provinces one of the Moreover, you must always address the Chair. most modern and one of the most progressive retirement systems in Hon. Stéphane Dion (President of the Queen’s Privy Council the world. Canadians are very proud of it and the Reform Party for Canada and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs, Lib.): should be too. Mr. Speaker, in fact— Some hon. members: Yes or no? * * * Hon. Stéphane Dion: —if ever the Calgary declaration were to [Translation] become an interpretive clause, which is possible, although it has not happened yet, of course, as it is under discussion, the inter- CALGARY DECLARATION pretation given would guarantee Quebecers that the courts would take into account today’s unique, as opposed to yesterday’s dis- Mrs. Suzanne Tremblay (Rimouski—Mitis, BQ): Mr. Speak- tinct, character of Quebec society. er, my question is for the Prime Minister. There is not a single serious jurist who would say that being André Tremblay, the former constitutional adviser to several of unique had anything less to recommend it than being distinct. Quebec’s premiers, including Robert Bourassa, said that the Calga- ry declaration was an empty shell, that it amounted to next to * * * nothing. [English] Since even Quebec federalists are calling the Calgary declaration an empty shell, how can the Prime Minister see it as a huge step IMMIGRATION forward on which we can pin all our hopes? Mr. John Reynolds (West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast, Ref.): Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Citizenship Hon. Stéphane Dion (President of the Queen’s Privy Council and Immigration. for Canada and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, if we are to have quality debates in this House, As the minister is aware, there are in excess of 30,000 illegal members would do well not to distort what has been said. The immigrants in Canada today. Can the minister confirm that there Prime Minister never said that it was a huge step forward on which are in excess of 200 citizens of Vietnam in Canada under deporta- we could pin all our hopes. tion order mostly for criminal activity? Can the minister confirm 228
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Oral Questions that the Canadian government is negotiating with the Government Could the Prime Minister tell us if this is indeed his govern- of Vietnam to take back a handpicked 100 of them? ment’s actual strategy to resolve the postal issue?
[Translation] Hon. Alfonso Gagliano (Minister of Public Works and Gov- ernment Services, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I wish to inform the Hon. Lucienne Robillard (Minister of Citizenship and Im- member that I have announced no strategy and that the only thing migration, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, what I can confirm officially is that the government wants is for the two parties—the union and the annually in Canada we have over 200,000 immigrants who will Canada Post Corporation—to sit down at the bargaining table and become Canadian citizens and whom we are very proud to wel- come up with a negotiated agreement. come. That is the federal system. * * * Clearly, however, there are always people in life who try to abuse the system, and we have the tools necessary to deport and return to [English] their country those who try to abuse the system. This is the case in a number of countries. PUBLIC WORKS AND GOVERNMENT SERVICES
D (1445 ) Mr. Mauril Bélanger (Ottawa—Vanier, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, would the Minister of Public Works and Government Services [English] share with the House how the conflict opposing Bradson Security Services and its locked out security officers was finally resolved Mr. John Reynolds (West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast, after almost a year? Ref.): Mr. Speaker, I assure the minister that this party is just as happy with all the immigrants who come into this country legally Would the minister also inform the House as to the measures the as her party is. government will implement to avoid such deplorable situations in the future? Could the minister confirm, after she checks out what she is Hon. Alfonso Gagliano (Minister of Public Works and Gov- doing with the Government of Vietnam, that the federal govern- ernment Services, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, let me first inform the ment is greasing the wheels with the Vietnam government for House that Bradson Security has negotiated a tentative agreement. acceptance of these deportees, that it is using an $8 million CIDA Members of the union will vote on October 3. contract in Vietnam headed up by Marc Lalonde, a former govern- ment minister? Could she make sure the former minister is not part Such a situation will not occur any more because last Friday we of what is going on to solve the problem she has with these went out for new tenders. There is a clause for the future that will Vietnamese deportees who are in Canada? allow the suspension of any contractual obligation on both the suppliers and the government in case of a strike or lockout. [Translation]
Hon. Lucienne Robillard (Minister of Citizenship and Im- * * * migration, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, if the hon. member of the Reform Party is so proud to welcome immigrants to Canada, he should not JUSTICE really be continuing to try to create myths about immigration. That is just what he is doing with this sort of question and it is Mr. Jack Ramsay (Crowfoot, Ref.): Mr. Speaker, today the unacceptable. Supreme Court of Canada stated very clearly in a judgment it rendered that the meeting between Ted Thompson and Chief I repeat. In the case of those who abuse the system, who come Justice Isaac which occurred on March 1, 1996 was clearly here illegally, we try to have official agreements with foreign inappropriate and breached the judicial independence of the courts. governments so they will take back their nationals who are here Evidence in justice documents filed with the supreme court illegally. This is the case with Vietnam, China and other countries. indicate that a false story and cover-up of this incident were created by senior justice officials. This is unacceptable. In the face of this * * * incriminating evidence and the statements of the supreme court, will the new justice minister immediately dismiss the officials involved in this cover-up? CANADA POST CORPORATION Hon. Anne McLellan (Minister of Justice and Attorney Ms. Jocelyne Bujold Girard (Jonquière, BQ): Mr. Speaker, General of Canada, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member the minister responsible for Canada Post announced that his for his question. I point out to the House that what the Supreme strategy in negotiations with the postal union was first to let the Court of Canada said today in a very important decision was that workers strike and then to negotiate special legislation to force the justice official in question exercised bad judgment but did not them back to work. act in bad faith. 229
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Oral Questions Having said that, I reassure the hon. member that I will be I can tell you that, after 25 years of an employment insurance taking under advisement that which the supreme court said and system that did not keep up with changes in the job market, it was I will be reviewing it in the coming days. imperative that it be reviewed, upgraded and brought up to date because it served Canadians very poorly. D (1450 ) I can also tell you that we are watching the system’s results very Mr. Jack Ramsay (Crowfoot, Ref.): Mr. Speaker, I thank the closely but we feel that, for the time being, it is in the interest of minister for her response. One of her own officials stated that if the Canadians to move from passive to active measures within the real story were revealed ‘‘the damage done to the image of the system. department, the attorney general and the court will be incalculable for all time and the consequences could precipitate the resignations Mr. Yvon Godin (Acadie—Bathurst, NDP): Mr. Speaker, are of the minister and the chief justice’’. the minister and the government insensitive to the pain and suffering inflicted upon these families? Will this government stop Again, will the justice minister immediately dismiss those stealing money from the unemployed by using the surplus in the involved in what her own official described as a false story and a employment insurance fund to reduce the deficit? cover-up? The Speaker: In my opinion, the word ‘‘stealing’’ is unparlia- Hon. Anne McLellan (Minister of Justice and Attorney mentary; I would therefore ask my hon. colleague to withdraw it. General of Canada, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I want to point out, because it does not appear clear from the hon. member’s question, Mr. Yvon Godin: I am sincerely sorry, Mr. Speaker, for using that the case he refers to decided by the supreme court today is in the word ‘‘stealing’’. So I will say ‘‘taking the money’’. fact a case we won. Hon. Pierre S. Pettigrew (Minister of Human Resources It was a unanimous decision of the Supreme Court of Canada in Development, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, what we do know is that which, yes, they did refer to an exercise of bad judgment by an workers everywhere in this country want to retain jobs and have official within the Department of Justice; but they went on to social systems which help them adapt to the labour market. conclude that the exercise of bad judgment should not lead to a stay of proceedings. That is what we have done with the transitional job fund. It has helped thousands of workers in the Atlantic region work in dignity I am very pleased to announce to the House this afternoon that instead of being limited to continual dependence on an income the government will be proceeding in a very timely fashion with coming from outside. Our respect for these workers is what has the three cases involving alleged war crimes. prompted us to commit to active measures with enhanced budgets which give them the dignity of real jobs, by moving from a system of passive measures to active measures. * * *
[Translation] * * *
[English] EMPLOYMENT INSURANCE
Mr. Yvon Godin (Acadie—Bathurst, NDP): Mr. Speaker, my SPEECH FROM THE THRONE question is for the Minister of Human Resources Development. Mr. Jean Dubé (Madawaska—Restigouche, PC): Mr. Speaker, Considerable time has gone by since the last changes to the over the years the government has continuously picked the pockets employment insurance were introduced. The verdict is clear: of Canadians through high employment insurance premiums. ordinary people and seasonal workers are hard hit by the changes introduced by my predecessor, the former member for Acadie— D (1455 ) Bathurst. The Speaker: In view of the fact that I just had one member Consequently, is the government prepared to amend the Employ- withdraw a word that had to do with stealing, I wonder if the hon. ment Insurance Act to ensure that children from families affected member would consider withdrawing the words ‘‘picked the pock- by the reform are not sent off to school on an empty stomach? ets’’.
Hon. Pierre S. Pettigrew (Minister of Human Resources Mr. Jean Dubé: Mr. Speaker, I will. Development, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, our employment insurance reform came into effect a year ago. We have been monitoring its In the Speech from the Throne the government announced that it implementation very carefully and closely and we are measuring planned to go ahead with the seniors benefits, which discourages its impact to make sure the interests of Canadians from coast to retirement savings, attacks middle income seniors and earners, and coast are well served. punishes women. 230
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Points of Order Could the Minister of Human Resources Development tell us Is the minister prepared to ensure that there will be public what his government has against Canadians who work, who want consultations on the MAI and, if so, what mechanisms is he to work and who want peace of mind and security in retirement? planning to use?
Hon. Paul Martin (Minister of Finance, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, Hon. Sergio Marchi (Minister for International Trade, Lib.): with respect to seniors benefits we are under great consultation Mr. Speaker, let me thank the hon. member for her question. now with seniors right across the country. Currently we are engaged in negotiations to set rules and regulate the investment portfolio because today there are over The fact is that 75 percent of Canadians will do better. Nine out 1,300 different bilateral investment agreements. In fact Canada has of ten senior women will do better. We are bringing in these either signed or negotiated up to 50 of the agreements. There is a fundamental changes so that middle income and low income need to multilateralize. Canadians can be assured of a decent retirement. At the same time I am sensitive to the hon. member and other I would ask the hon. member to hearken back to the last time hon. members. Obviously we need to do that in an open and there was reform, when the Conservative Party sought to bring in transparent fashion. That is precisely the reason we have sent pension reform on the backs of the lowest income earners, on the members of Parliament information packages, briefed our trade poorest in the country. We will not do that. critics, offered briefings to our caucuses, as well as indicated to—
[Translation] The Speaker: That would bring to a close our question period for today. Mr. Jean Dubé (Madawaska—Restigouche, PC): Mr. Speaker, the government is going to let the Minister of Finance take money * * * from Canadians instead of stopping the waste of their hard-won earnings. D (1500 )
Can the Minister of Human Resources Development explain to BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE us why his government is intent on punishing a generation of Mr. Randy White (Langley—Abbotsford, Ref.): Mr. Speaker, Canadians in retirement when it has taxed them to death during I wish to ask the government House leader to advise the House of their working years? the nature of the government’s business for the remainder of this week and into next. Hon. Pierre S. Pettigrew (Minister of Human Resources Development, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, what the reform has done was to Hon. Don Boudria (Leader of the Government in the House respond to a need, specifically the need to ensure that there would of Commons, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, let me thank my colleague be pensions in the next century, without having to pay an exorbitant across the way for this excellent question. price for them. That is what we have done. We have penalized no one, on the contrary, particularly not those women they speak of. The House will continue debate on the Address in Reply to the Nine out of ten women will benefit from this reform. This is a Speech from the Throne today, tomorrow and Monday. Tuesday reform which was necessary. shall be an allotted day. On Wednesday the House will consider a motion by the President of the Privy Council to establish a special We are the first industrialized country faced with these changing joint committee to consider a proposed amendment to the Constitu- demographics to address this problem with such courage. I believe tion regarding education in the province of Quebec. that this government’s courage in solving problems by addressing I expect to conclude the address debate next Thursday and needs, not only for the next few years but for the next generations Friday. needs to be recognized. While I am on my feet I wish to inform the House that it is the intention of the government to refer Bill C-4, an act to amend the * * * Canadian Wheat Board Act that was presented to this Parliament earlier today to committee before second reading pursuant to [English] Standing Order 73(1).
INTERNATIONAL TRADE * * *
Ms. Bonnie Brown (Oakville, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, my question POINTS OF ORDER is for the Minister for International Trade. COMMENTS DURING QUESTION PERIOD In my constituency of Oakville I am receiving letters of concern about our negotiations toward a multilateral agreement on invest- Hon. Jean J. Charest (Sherbrooke, PC): Thank you, Mr. ment. Speaker, for recognizing me on a point of order arising from 231
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Tributes question period. You will have guessed that it has to do with the We are going to go to tributes. I recognize the hon. member for expression used in question period on which you intervened. It has Winnipeg—Transcona who will be saying a few words about a very to do with the expression ‘‘picking the pockets of Canadians’’. dear colleague of ours who passed away, Mr. Stanley Knowles.
Mr. Speaker, I have looked in Beauchesne’s sixth edition, page 142, the section on unparliamentary language. Unless I am mistak- en—and I have not had a lot of time to examine precedents, as you * * * will agree, Mr. Speaker—I have not found it in Beauchesne’s. In fact, I think it is an expression that I have heard in this House before. It is an expression that I think is widely understood by THE LATE HON. STANLEY HOWARD KNOWLES members in the House as not being derogatory if that is not the intent of the person who is saying it. Mr. Bill Blaikie (Winnipeg—Transcona, NDP): Mr. Speaker, I would respectfully submit that the expression used by the when the last Parliament adjourned we were still fortunate enough member was an expression that should be allowed. to be in the company of Mr. Stanley Knowles, the former member for Winnipeg North Centre. However, as everyone here will know, The Speaker: Many times in the course of the give and take in shortly after the general election of June 2 Mr. Knowles passed the House of Commons certain words are used and sometimes, as away just short of his 89th birthday. At that time he was honoured your Speaker, they seem to be inappropriate. I do not know if this appropriately on the Hill. word is in Beauchesne’s or not, but sometimes it is the tone used with the word and sometimes it is circumstance, that causes disorder, etc. In addition to the special honours that he received at that time from the House, from the government and from the Canadian people in a massive overwhelming way, we have a tradition in this I hope the House would indulge me at the beginning. I will have place of paying tribute to former members. It is at this time that I a look at Beauchesne’s again of course. However, I would prefer would like to pay tribute to Mr. Knowles, the former member for that we use words that are less inflammatory. Winnipeg North Centre, whose association with this place stretched over 50 years, 55 years from the time he was first elected I will surely look at the precedents and refresh my memory. If it in 1942 up until 1997 when he was still serving as an honorary is necessary I will come back to the House. With that said, this officer of the table, with the exception of the four years that he point of order is over unless the member has another point of order. spent out of office from 1958 to 1962. But he first ran for Parliament in 1935. Hon. Jean J. Charest: Mr. Speaker, I did want to add a very brief comment because I think it is relevant to the way the House will operate and how you will, from the Chair, deal with these Obviously it was a tremendous span of association with Cana- matters. dian politics. He was someone who I think was regarded almost universally as one of the great parliamentarians of our time. We I simply wanted to add that I find the same to be true for the will miss him and we will miss having him here with us. Of course word ‘‘bamboozle’’. I would appreciate if you would equally give as New Democrats we especially regret that he was not here to consideration to that word in your research of precedents. enjoy our return to this Parliament with the status of an official party. I know that my leader expressed similar sentiments yester- day when she spoke to the Speech from the Throne. The Speaker: There are no words that I know of which of themselves are unparliamentary because they can be used in such a way that they would not be. Stanley Knowles was a great defender of veterans, of the poor, of women, of anyone who needed help, of anyone who should have D (1505 ) been the object of our compassion, either individually or as a society. He saw government as something that could play a positive As your Speaker I have to decide matters during the course of the role in the economy and in the creation of social programs. He give and take in question period. Surely I should have enough room fought especially for the elderly and for pensions and for a decent to make decisions on your behalf so that the debates can continue. public pension system in this country and he lived to see many of his dreams realized. If the hon. member wants me to look up the word ‘‘bamboozle’’, I will be happy to do that. Unfortunately he also lived to see the day when some of those dreams began to unravel as part of the policies adopted in recent I hope that when I make decisions of this nature, that you will years. So many of us here, inspired by his work and by his grant me enough room. My intentions are to see to it that the House commitment to such things, intend to continue that work and to functions properly. I will not intervene any more than I have to. defend and to promote the ideals that he represented in this place. 232
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Tributes One could talk about Stanley Knowles for a long time and never the NDP, all had a spiritual dimension to their beginnings and their say the same thing twice because there is so much to say about mission. the former member for Winnipeg North Centre but we only have a brief time here today. Mr. Knowles, like his friends and collaborators J.S. Woodsworth and Tommy Douglas who were also Christian ministers in the I want to extend on behalf of my colleagues and I am sure on Methodist and Baptist traditions, was a part of the social gospel behalf of everyone our condolences to his family and our great movement, a movement that true religion encompassed not only appreciation of the gift that they gave to us, all the hours that the vertical relationship of individuals to God but also the horizon- Stanley Knowles spent in this place day after day, night after night. tal dimension of service to one’s fellow man.
I remember seeing him the night before his stroke. It was I think of Stanley Knowles as a servant of Canada, as a servant of 11 o’clock in the evening in the hallway of the sixth floor of the his party, as a servant of this House and a servant of the common Centre Block. He always paid attention to Parliament and cared people. But I also think of him as a servant of a higher master. about Parliament and cared about what Parliament was doing and how it was doing it. If there is one thing we can say about Mr. It is an honour to pay tribute to him today in all the dimensions Knowles, it is that he always carried out his duties with a great deal of his service. of honour, dignity and a respect for the parliamentary process. We mourn his loss here today and pay him tribute. [Translation]
D (1510 ) Mr. Louis Plamondon (Richelieu, BQ): Mr. Speaker, it is my pleasure, on behalf of Bloc Quebecois members, to join with my Hon. Herb Gray (Deputy Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, colleagues in paying tribute to Stanley Knowles. I am very pleased to be able take part in this tribute to the memory of the late Hon. Stanley Knowles. When I became a member of this House, in 1984, Mr. Knowles had just ended his last term as an active member of Parliament. A He was a vigorous spokesman for the elderly, for the poor, for few months earlier, the Prime Minister had offered him, with the the less favoured people in our society. He was an outstanding unanimous consent of the House, to sit at the clerk’s table. So, expert on the procedures and the rules of the House. He was one of during my first years in this Parliament, I often had the opportunity the ornaments of the House of Commons in this and in previous to consult with him. He became an effective conciliator between generations. He will be very much missed. It will not be the same the leaders of the various parties, as well as a knowledgeable when we look toward you, Mr. Speaker, and do not see Mr. consultant to each party and an exceptional advisor to the House. Knowles sitting at the table as honorary clerk, as the proceedings unwind. No Bloc Quebecois member currently in this House has had the honour of sitting with him. However, most of us have heard about On behalf of the Government of Canada I would like to extend him since 1993 and seen him sitting at the clerk’s table in the past deepest sympathies and condolences to the family, the children and few years. Everyone knows of his tremendous efforts to introduce grandchildren of Stanley Knowles. social measures in this House.
He will be very much missed in this House and in our country. Mr. Knowles’ religious background eventually led him to run for office. Sometimes he would say, and I do not know for sure Mr. Preston Manning (Leader of the Opposition, Ref.): Mr. whether he was joking or not, that it was easier to change laws than Speaker, I also join with other MPs in paying tribute to the late souls. This is why he went into politics. Stanley Knowles. He was elected to Parliament and quickly became an expert on Mr. Knowles’ contributions to this House and to Canada are well procedure. I think his great parliamentary skills were confirmed known. His consistent advocacy of social legislation to help the during the famous pipeline debate, in 1956. In addition to being an old, the sick, the young and the poor, his advocacy in defence of expert on procedure and a man who devoted his political career to democracy mainly through the development and the improvement the poor, Mr. Knowles was also a good organizer and he had the of the rules and procedures of the House, his contributions and ability to bring people together. This led him to create the New accomplishments as a social democrat are a monument in them- Democratic Party, in 1961. selves and there is little we can do to add to their lustre. D (1515) There is one other dimension of Mr. Knowles’ life and career that we should not lose sight of in praising his accomplishments as It was said that Parliament was not his second home, but his a social democrat. Stanley Knowles began his career as a minister main residence. Stanley Knowles was a man of conviction; he was of the Christian gospel. All the old western populace movements, always prepared to fight for the poor and the elderly. He was a man Réal, Social Credit, the Progressives, the CCF, which later became of courage, in spite of his physical frailty. He suffered from 233
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The Address multiple sclerosis, but this never stopped him from fighting for the Our only regret today as we take up our rightful places in this poor. Chamber is that Stanley Knowles is not looking over at us from his place at the centre of the table in this Chamber. We know that He was an honest man, respectful of and respected by his nothing would have made Stanley Knowles happier and prouder political opponents. In a sense, Stanley was the conscience of this than to know that his constituency, one for which he worked so Parliament. He will remain a legend in Canadian politics. long and hard, had come home to the NDP on June 2, 1997. The member for Winnipeg Centre and I, and I believe all of my To his family, his friends and his party, I express, in my own colleagues in our caucus and all parties in this House share in the name and on behalf of my colleagues, our most sincere condo- responsibility of carrying on the legacy of Stanley Knowles. lences. I conclude with this beautiful line from the great French author Alexandre Dumas, who said ‘‘Those whom we have loved D (1520 ) and lost are no longer where they were, but they are still every- where we are’’. We know it is impossible to fill his shoes but we can strive to be like him, fighting for social justice with honour, pursuing righ- [English] teousness with kindness.
Mrs. Elsie Wayne (Saint John, PC): Mr. Speaker, the tributes We also know that the best way to carry on his legacy and honour the public paid to Stanley Knowles earlier this summer here in this his work is to try to maintain the high standards he set for all of us, building and in this city and in Winnipeg stand as a monument to a the standards of fighting persistently for social justice and always politician who cared deeply for his community and for his country. doing it with honesty and integrity. It is our turn to carry on the torch of Stanley Knowles, to carry on his fight for security for seniors, for equality for all people and hope for a better day. Behind the legend there was a mortal who saw his public duty, who was prepared to engage in public life to change things, and We mourn the loss of a great Canadian, a founding member of millions of Canadians benefited from his efforts, the poor, the the NDP, the conscience of Parliament. But his work, his words, his veterans, the aged, to name a few. fighting spirit live on. The best way we could pay tribute to Stanley is to use his own words, words he delivered in 1930 in a valedictory Mention has been made of the high honour the House gave to address to Brandon College. Mr. Knowles by making him an honorary officer and giving him a seat at the table. People who watched the proceedings of the House To paraphrase his words, as we stand here in this Chamber our perhaps remember him in that capacity in his latter years. thoughts go back to the pioneering spirit of Stanley Knowles who struggled and sacrificed for this institution here in this place. His memory seems to hallow the very ground on which we stand. As we set out at the beginning of this new Parliament perhaps it would be best to remember Stanley Knowles as a politician, a political warrior who was armed with the strongest armour that any ______of us can have, a writ of election and a seat in the House of Commons of Canada. GOVERNMENT ORDERS It gave him the ability to confront the issues of our time as he confronted the issues of his with determination, unfailing courtesy and hard work. The families of politicians inevitably pay a price for [English] this dedication. I hope that the pride that they are entitled to feel at the end of Mr. Knowles’ life tempers the sense of loss which, SPEECH FROM THE THRONE regardless of age and its infirmities, must still be great indeed.
RESUMPTION OF DEBATE ON ADDRESS IN REPLY He was a House of Commons gentleman, a politician, a parlia- mentarian, and we are better in this country because of his The House resumed consideration of the motion for an address to dedication to Canada. On behalf of my party here, our deepest His Excellency the Governor General in reply to his speech at the sympathy goes out to Mr. Knowles’ family. We want to say that we opening of the session, of the amendment and of the amendment to honoured him greatly and we still do in the remembrance of him. the amendment.
Ms. Judy Wasylycia-Leis (Winnipeg North Centre, NDP): Mr. Greg Thompson (Charlotte, PC): Mr. Speaker, it is nice to Mr. Speaker, I rise today also on behalf of my colleague, the be back here. I will be sharing my time with the member for member for Winnipeg Centre, since both of us share in the Shefford. I want to congratulate you on your elevation to the Chair. privilege of representing a constituency that Stanley held for 38 Most if not all of us would agree that you are a learned student of years. this House. I would say you have mastered the rules of procedure 234
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The Address and you are very diplomatic in your skills and in handling In the United States over the last 10 years there has been an 11 numbers. Congratulations. percent increase in real incomes. In the corresponding period in Canada there has been a 1.3 percent decrease in real incomes. I want to thank my constituents for sending me here and for There is something wrong when that happens and the government placing their trust in me. I want to let them know back home that I has yet to figure out what it is. will do the very best job I can to represent them in this House. When we take a look at the unemployment rates in the country I want to mention my riding a little before I begin my address to we are in the same situation. Our unemployment numbers are the throne speech. My riding is called Charlotte but it contains exactly double those of the United States. There are many reasons seven counties either in whole or in part. The name Charlotte really for that obviously. But I think one big reason we have had that does not do justice to the description of the riding. One of the sustained unemployment rate in Canada is a lack of vision on the things that we will be entertaining is the possible name change for part of the government. the riding to reflect those folks who live in some of the other counties. The government has been blessed by many things, some of them completely beyond its control or which it had nothing whatsoever The throne speech was a big disappointment to me. It was filled to do with. It has been blessed with a period of economic growth with vague generalities and all kinds of platitudes with not a whole since it took office but that has not actually been translated into real lot of meat or substance. I do not think many Canadians could find jobs. It has been blessed with very low international interest rates, satisfaction in what they heard in that speech the other day, in which has played well for the government in terms of debt particular when we note that Canada is going through a high rate of reduction, which again has nothing to do with the government sustained unemployment. We have had 87 months of unemploy- itself. It has been blessed with some financial measures which any ment at a rate of over 9 percent which is absolutely unacceptable. government could have fared better with than what it has. It is often said that the essence of life is hope. I do not think there was much hope in the document of the other day. Canadians, in Immediately on taking office in 1993 it proceeded on the route it particular Canadians from Atlantic Canada and some of the poorer is famous for, downloading its problems on to another level of parts of Canada, would not take a whole lot of comfort in it. government. It certain did that. If we measure the reduction in spending in Ottawa since 1993, over 90 percent of that has been D downloaded on to the backs of the provinces. The statistics will tell (1525 ) us that only 2 percent of the cuts came out of downtown Ottawa and its government departments. The rest was downloaded on to the It is interesting that last week when the Leader of the Opposition backs of the provinces. was interviewed by a newspaper in Atlantic Canada he alluded to some of the poorer parts of his province which sometimes we do not understand. Health care is an example. A 40 percent cut in health care transfers to the provinces. That translates into a figure of approxi- I think that some of the hurt that is being experienced in the mately $8 billion. What the government and its finance minister country knows no bounds. I can talk about Atlantic Canada but and the prime minister forgot is that there is only one taxpayer. there are other parts of Canada that are also going through some When they download on to the provinces they have to do one of two pretty tough times. things, accept the download or download themselves on to the backs of the municipalities, again forgetting there is only one taxpayer. That has hurt us in Atlantic Canada. It has hurt us in a It is often said that a real measure of a government should be number of ways but particularly in health care. how it deals with its poor, its elderly and its sick. After examining this government since 1993, I would add to that list the youth of Canada. The government has failed miserably. It cannot seem to D (1530) grasp the reality that there are a lot of people hurting.
When we listen to the finance minister I believe he assumes that I do not think there is anyone in any part of this country who since everything is well on Wall Street and Bay Street, that could stand up today to say with any degree of confidence that our everything is well in the rest of Canada. But let me tell the House it health care system can sustain those types of cuts. If we measure is not. That is one of the reasons the House did make some changes what we have today versus what we had 10 years ago, there are a lot which were reflected during the election period. of Canadians who are very worried.
As members have returned to the House there is a decrease in the The answers to some of these problems are not easy. There is no size of the majority of the government which it enjoyed in its first question about that. It requires some ingenuity on the part of the mandate. I believe that was for a very particular reason. I believe it government to recognize that there are problems out there which is because there are lot of very disillusioned people. must be dealt with. 235
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The Address In Atlantic Canada we are not talking about handouts; we are is hurting us. Ordinary Canadians have no confidence in the future. talking about strategic investment into the area of the country that That includes the citizens of Quebec. has the greatest amount of unemployment. In some parts of Atlantic Canada the unemployment rate is over 30 p. cent. The Anything we can do to help in creating a healthy, vibrant government has to do something about it. Just downloading onto economy and anything that we can do to improve the lot of all the backs of the provinces, particularly the poorer provinces, is citizens in the province of Quebec, English as well as French not going to solve the problem. speaking, I am in favour of it and this party is in favour of it.
We have the brain drain of Atlantic Canada. We educate our D (1535 ) youth only to find that they have to move out to get a job. The old expression is that Atlantic Canada is a nice place to live, provided Mr. Paul Szabo (Mississauga South, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I you can get a job. There is nothing in the throne speech which know that time is short so I will simply move to one of the would give Atlantic Canadians, particularly young Atlantic Cana- member’s statements and that was that there is only one taxpayer. dians, any degree of hope. The member probably will know that in the province of Ontario the Mike Harris government has extended a 15 percent tax decrease to It is incumbent on this government to take the message which the residents of Ontario. was given to it on June 2 and respond to the needs of Atlantic Canada. The member believes there is only one taxpayer. Would he not agree that the impact of so-called downloading has not been as severe as he might suggest simply because the government feels it [Translation] is important to have given that tax break notwithstanding any changes from federal transfers? Mr. Paul Crête (Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup—Témis- couata—Les Basques, BQ): Mr. Speaker, I have listened to the Mr. Greg Thompson: Mr. Speaker, if I were a member from speech of my colleague from the Conservative Party with interest Ontario I think I could stand up here and boast about the economy and was unable to detect, in the part I was able to hear, any personal of my home province, but unfortunately I am not from Ontario. opinion on the matter of the amendment to the amendment by the Obviously that is one of the reasons why the Liberal Party won Bloc Quebecois. every seat, with the exception of one, that of my colleague just in front of me. It is because the people very seldom reject a government if the economy is moving well as evidenced in just I have two questions for my colleague from the Conservative about every election in the United States and Canada in the last 100 Party. Does the hon. member acknowledge that the Government’s years. legislative program denies the existence of the Quebec people and its culture? In responding to this question, can he tell us whether he If I were living in downtown Toronto or Oakville, Ontario I will in fact vote in favour of the amendment we are proposing? And would agree 100 percent with what the member has stated. They even more fundamental than that, does the hon. member acknowl- are basically satisfied with the government. edge the existence of the Quebec people as a people? Such recognition would make it possible to reach a solution to the constitutional problem which has been with us for more than 30 This country as a whole is what I am worried about. That wealth years. and industrial prosperity has not spread across this country in the directions that we would like to see it spread. It has not spread north, east, or west in some areas. As I mentioned earlier in my [English] speech, even places in British Columbia and Alberta have their problems, but in Atlantic Canada we have serious problems. Mr. Greg Thompson: Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for his question. One of the things that the government does have to take a look at is a reduction in taxes. We are proposing a reduction in payroll taxes, those employment insurance taxes of which the government I believe that one of the best things the government could do for today is sitting on a bank roll of somewhere between $5 billion and Canada—and obviously Canada in my eyes includes Quebec, a $10 billion and using that for goodness sake to reduce the size of healthy Quebec, a Quebec that is as vibrant as we want to see the the national debt, which is ridiculous. The government is putting rest of Canada be—would be to get the economy moving in a way the problem right on the backs of the unemployed, the very people that brings everyone in. it should be helping.
As I mentioned before, the government is taking a lot of pleasure [Translation] in the growth in the stock market and how well Bay Street and Wall Street are doing, but it has forgotten that consumer confidence in Ms. Diane St-Jacques (Shefford, PC): Mr. Speaker, I would Canada is at an all-time low. The sustained rate of unemployment first like to congratulate you on your appointment. I would also like 236
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The Address to take this opportunity to thank the people of Shefford for the The government was in a position to act, but once again it sat confidence they showed in me in the recent federal election. I want back and did nothing. There is also a need to improve the quality of them to know that I will work with all my heart to defend their life of all Canadians. Our social safety net, which is the envy of interests. many nations around the world, cannot be expected to withstand much longer the drastic cuts made by the government across the way. To return to Tuesday’s speech from the throne, the government has revealed its political intentions. Satisfied with the current state of the country and unable to offer Canadians a national vision with Concerned with putting its financial house in order, the govern- clear objectives for the country as a whole, the Chrétien govern- ment, during its first mandate, brought all existing support pro- ment has certainly set out its intentions, but without structure or grams and the Canada Assistance Plan together under a single time frame. umbrella called the Canada health and social transfer. Once again, concern about saving money took precedence over common sense, and government assistance was cut by $7 billion over four years Not only does the speech not put forward any creative vision with the results that we know. enabling us to move into the 21st century, but it fails to respond to Canadians’ real concerns. The speech is a Liberal speech, the same one they have been dishing up for years. It says nothing to me and Instead of federal transfers leaving the provinces at the mercy of enables them to improvise, as they always have. They turn the federal government’s goodwill, we are proposing a tax point whichever way the wind blows, taxing, cutting, taxing, spending. transfer to the provinces and territories to ensure stable funding. This way, provincial and territorial governments would be forever Tuesday’s speech from the throne contained at least one piece of protected against cuts like those imposed by the Liberals. In good news. The government will soon have a budget surplus. The addition, the public would receive services from governments that bad news is that Canadians will not see a cent of it. The Liberal are closer to them and their situation. government now has to repair the damage it did in its first mandate and reinvest in the programs it had previously cut. We applaud the government’s desire to end child poverty. Unfortunately, its efforts are directed more at the consequences of You know, we should not be surprised, this is the Liberal style. the problem than at the problem itself. There are 1.5 million We are here in the House of Commons to work together to build a children living in poverty in Canada. These children are poor better future for our country. The challenge facing Canada is of because their parents are poor. Their parents are poor because the significant proportions and warrants all our energies and creativity. government has focused all its attention on one thing: the deficit. And all the while, Canadian workers, children and the elderly have been paying the price. D (1540) The government even admits in the throne speech that it has the We must build for our children a country in which they can grow means to improve our children’s lives and that it intends to invest and develop without going hungry and without lacking quality in their well-being. Let us remember that the money referred to by health care, in a context that will encourage them to excel. the government in its speeches has already been committed in the two previous years’ budgets. Let us be clear: the government is promising us money it has already invested and it is promising to My party, the Progressive Conservative Party of Canada, has invest at least that much again. developed a plan providing Canadians with a vision for the future that meets their aspirations and expectations, a simple, down to earth and unifying plan. Time has come to take new approaches and Is this another of those elusive promises, like the 150,000 day to offer new solutions. The Progressive Conservative Party of care spaces, or will the federal government actually make a Canada has already come up with a plan that will give Canadians a commitment this time? Of all the promises made by the Liberals vision, a down to earth plan for the future of our country. during the election campaign, let us hope that those concerning children will be kept, and kept a little better than the motion passed in the House of Commons in 1989 to end child poverty by the year However, a vision and a plan are not enough. Leadership is 2000. If the current trend continues, the child poverty rate will have required to achieve key priorities. Our program for growth has doubled by then. three main thrusts: sound management of taxpayers’ money; quality of life for our fellow citizens and, finally, initiatives for a brighter future. Quite simply, what sound management of taxpay- At the present time, over 1,500 food banks and hundreds of soup ers’ money stands for is the need for any responsible government to kitchens are waging the fight against hunger. Under the present introduce legislation to make fiscal balance mandatory, lower government’s plan, millions of children will still go to school employment insurance premiums and reduce personal income tax. hungry tomorrow. It is unfortunate that this sad reality is only What people want is not rhetoric and empty promises, but action. brought home to us during electoral periods. 237
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The Address It is not surprising that election-minded politics like this have I have a question for the hon. member. She talked about lowering undermined the credibility of our institutions. When the public has payroll taxes. Is the member aware that when the Liberal govern- regained faith in its public institutions, we will have the stability ment took over in 1993 the Conservative government had it pegged and confidence necessary to move forward. The country needs at $3.30 per $100? Does she know what the Liberal government did leadership with the courage to renew and revitalize the federation from day one until now? in order to show that it can work to everyone’s satisfaction. If she does not know, I will be glad to remind her. If she does D (1545) know, I would like her to point out what the payroll taxes are today as opposed to what they were under a Conservative government. The premiers have agreed on a work plan and on the main areas of discussion. I am convinced that it is possible to find a basis for [Translation] agreement. Canadians from all walks of life will not waste much time in extremist rhetoric, and they will demonstrate their attach- ment to Canada, I am sure. Ms. Diane St-Jacques: Mr. Speaker, I will try to respond. I did not understand everything the hon. member said, but I think the It is time again for us to join forces around a common ideal. the deficit he is talking about was created by the Liberals. We too had polls clearly demonstrate that Quebecers have Canadian values at to deal with that deficit, and, had the Conservative government not heart and want to remain within the country they helped build. Let introduced free trade, we would not be where we are today. us not get hung up on the words, the reality is clear. Quebecers are Quebecers, and just as proud to be Canadians. Mr. Maurice Godin (Châteauguay, BQ): Mr. Speaker, I lis- tened with interest to the remarks of my colleague from Shefford. What is less clear is that, in neither the last referendum nor the last electoral campaign, not even in the meeting at Calgary, was there any manifestation of leadership by our Prime Minister. I She spoke on a number of subjects, including finance, programs, apologize for not mincing any words, but his leadership is worn children and the deficit, but the most important point the Prime out. Minister raised yesterday was Canadian unity. I heard no mention of that, particularly with respect to the people of Quebec. Our dynamic team, representing a new generation of politicians, will advance some constructive ideas which will rally the popula- I would like to ask her a question, because it is all very well to tion. Rest assured that the only leader with a vision of the future for talk of the economy, but I think the most important thing is simply Canada is the man you heard yesterday, Jean Charest, and the true to reach a common understanding. What is the role of each opposition which can speak on behalf of all Canadians is the province in the Constitution? Progressive Conservative Party of Canada.
[English] D (1550)
Mr. John Cannis (Scarborough Centre, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I Does the hon. member acknowledge that the government’s remember in 1967 the Toronto Maple Leafs won the Stanley Cup legislative program denies the existence and the culture of the and 90 percent of the team was made up of older players who people of Quebec? Does the member acknowledge the existence of brought a wealth of experience and knowledge to the team. Punch the people of Quebec? Imlach was able to bring the Stanley Cup to the Toronto Maple Leafs. Similarly, this administration and its leaders with a wealth of knowledge and expertise has done many things. Ms. Diane St-Jacques: Mr. Speaker, my answer to the hon. member is that I am a Quebecer, I am proud to be a Quebecer and a I congratulate the member on her election. She referred to Canadian, and that if we consider the latest polls, many Quebecers damage done by the Liberal government’s first mandate. I would still want to be part of Canada. We must keep talking to try and find like to talk about that damage for a minute: damage such as a solution. 900,000 jobs created in its first mandate; damage such as inheriting a deficit of $42 billion which her Conservative Party left us [English] with—and it is now said to be anywhere from zero to $5 billion; damage such as creating the fastest growing economy in the G-7; damage such as creating opportunities for youth in the programs Mr. Paul DeVillers (Parliamentary Secretary to President of outlined in the throne speech and before; damage such as, as the the Queen’s Privy Council for Canada and Minister of Inter- national health forum indicated before the election, the need to governmental Affairs, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I would like to indicate make the ceiling $12.5 billion. Immediately the government at the beginning that I am sharing my time with the hon. member restored it. for Windsor—St. Clair. 238
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The Address [Translation] surplus of .55 percent in 1996. The government achieved the first annual surplus since 1982. It is a great pleasure to speak to this House in reply to the throne speech, which outlines the government’s priorities for the first D (1555) session of the 36th Parliament. All the spending contained in the throne speech is funded by I would like to start by thanking the people of Simcoe North for budgetary surpluses. I want to be crystal clear on this point. The renewing their vote of confidence by granting me a second term in budgetary surpluses during this mandate will be the source of the federal election last June. I would also like to mention the funding for new programs. inestimable support I have received from my wife and family. The government will not be relying on borrowing moneys. We will not be spending our children’s inheritance. Fifty per cent of There are many positive elements in the throne speech. Thanks budgetary surpluses will go to investments in social and economic to the persistent efforts of the federal government and the support priorities and fifty per cent will go to tax reduction and debt of Canadians, we can at last enjoy the fruits of our collective repayment. This 50:50 split ensures that the Liberal commitments labours. Optimism is no longer the exception but the rule, since we to sound economic planning and to social responsibility will go now have regained the ability to address the priorities of Canadians hand in hand. fairly and equitably. In the second mandate the government will do more on job I would like to expand on three themes we find in the throne creation for young Canadians. In February 1997 the government speech: social reform, economic reform and national unity. The announced the youth employment strategy. This strategy consoli- legislation that will be introduced to implement the proposed dates over $2 billion in new and existing programs and services for changes to the Canada Pension Plan and the non-taxable seniors young people. benefit will, I believe, ensure that our public pension system will remain sustainable for generations to come. The government will also work with the business community and the provinces to forecast areas of job growth. This planning I may point out that when the seniors benefit comes into effect in ahead is a concrete example of how the government will help 2001, benefits for our neediest seniors will increase. In fact, about young people meet the challenges of the job market. 75 percent of seniors, which includes nine elderly women out of ten, will have an income that is either equal to or higher than their I recently lead community consultation on job creation in my present income. riding of Simcoe North. The citizens of Simcoe North felt that apprenticeship and training programs would help young people get I support unconditionally the government’s commitment to into fulfilling and well paying jobs. They also felt that the maintain a comprehensive public health care system that provides perception of various kinds of jobs needs to improve. For example, universal access to high quality care for all Canadians. the skilled trades should be valued for the contribution they make to a vibrant economy. After the National Forum on Health tabled its report this year, the government had to acknowledge its conclusions, and it did so in The government will be initiating measures similar to those the throne speech. Canadians, including many of my constituents, suggested by the people of Simcoe North. Internship programs will were worried about the restructuring of our medicare system. be extended and expanded. The government will provide enhanced funding for student summer placements. A Canada-wide mentor- ship program will be created in partnership with the provincial The announcement that the government, working with its part- governments and the private sector. ners, will develop a national plan, time table and fiscal framework for setting up a system that guarantees access to medically Once again the government has shown that it is listening to necessary drugs, and will also support home and community care, Canadians and working with them to secure a better future for shows that the message sent by Canadians about public health care young Canadians. has been received and understood by this government. I am particularly encouraged by the government statement on [English] national unity. As Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs, I have had the opportunity to discuss I am very proud of the government’s economic record. The national unity with Canadians from Newfoundland and Labrador to throne speech reflects our commitment to thoughtful economic British Columbia. The government’s approach to national unity management. I would like to mention some examples of this reflects the concerns I have heard from these Canadians. commitment, for instance a balanced budget no later than 1998-99. First, the government is committed to the recognition of Que- This will be the first time in almost 30 years that the country has bec’s unique language, culture and legal system. The government had a balanced budget. With a surplus debt to GDP ratio the current will work closely with provincial and territorial leaders to advance account balance has gone from a deficit of 4.2 percent of GDP to a the progress made in the Calgary declaration. Recognition of 239
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The Address Quebec’s unique character, language and legal system will not Minas Basin provides the highest tides in the world. I am sure the entail any new powers, privileges or rights. This message must be members of the government will recognize the strength of tides in carried to all Canadians in every province and region. the recent election.
Second, the government will ensure that the national unity The recent electoral tides in Atlantic Canada sent a signal that debate is conducted with clarity and frankness. It is critical that Atlantic Canadians were not simply frustrated with cuts but instead Quebeckers, especially francophone Quebeckers, understand the were frustrated with the lack of vision demonstrated by the consequences and the implications of separation. It is equally government to the needs of Atlantic Canada. Atlantic Canadians fundamental that Canadians outside Quebec understand the same want a future where they have access to the free enterprise system consequences and the implications. and can utilize the tools of the free enterprise system to build a stronger, more self-reliant Atlantic Canada. In the words of the throne speech: —the government will bring frankness and clarity to any debate that puts into I am a Conservative, an Atlantic Canadian and a small business question the future existence or unity of Canada. It will create a better person. None of these are mutually exclusive. Earlier today the understanding of the true complexity and difficulty for all of us in severing ties— member for Medicine Hat referred to the member for Saint John as a New Democrat because she expressed compassion for the I congratulate the government on the commitment to deal underprivileged. assertively to bring clarity to this debate.
[Translation] Compassion is not partisan in principle. Compassion is some- thing we all should have within the House. While some members in None of this government’s programs could be carried out if our this House prefer to talk about fights for the right, there are some of national unity initiatives were not successful. The government us who prefer to simply work hard for what is right. therefore views its mandate in that area in a global and encompas- sing fashion. Any measure that strengthens the country will have a In closing, I look forward to working with the members of this unifying effect on Canada. House and to making a difference in the lives of Canadians. I would like to ask this government what, over the next four years, it That having been said, we pledge to work in partnership with the intends doing to demonstrate vision for Atlantic Canada. provinces and territory. Our federation as we know it is flexible. This needs to be repeated over and over in the presence of Mr. Paul DeVillers: Mr. Speaker, I would first like to indicate separatists. Far from being fixed and immovable, our federation is that the hon. member has some tremendous shoes to fill in one that keeps evolving. representing the riding of Kings—Hants. The former member, John Murphy, served that riding extremely well. I visited the riding with D (1600) John and know it well so I wish the member the best of luck in that endeavour. During this second mandate, we will continue to reflect and meet the demands of every province and region. I am confident that, His question concerned the vision the government intends to with such flexibility and the synergy fostered by this government, show over the next four years. That is the subject matter of this we will enter the new millennium with a new invigorated Canada. debate. The Speech from the Throne is the blueprint. There is much that I and others have pointed out in our speeches which addresses I realize that Canadians have done a great deal to help the federal that question. For instance, the new commitment of another $850 government put its financial house in order and strengthen the million to the child tax credit is something that will address the social and political fabric of Canada. We have come a long, hard concerns that were addressed by the member in the prelude to his way, but the end is in sight. question. That is but one example of the vision that we need to show. To conclude, I want to reaffirm my solemn commitment to represent my constituents to the best of my abilities and to [Translation] co-operate with all members of this House to ensure our govern- ment reflects and is sensitive to the needs of all Canadians. Mr. Antoine Dubé (Lévis, BQ): Mr. Speaker, I take this [English] opportunity to congratulate you on your appointment as Acting Speaker. Mr. Scott Brison (Kings—Hants, PC): Mr. Speaker, I am very proud to be here today. I feel privileged to represent the constitu- I wish to draw your attention to the speech made by the hon. ents of Kings—Hants. member, who is an experienced member of this House, and who speaks in English in a certain way and in French in a different way. Kings—Hants includes the Annapolis Valley where we grow the I heard him speak in English about being firm. When alluding to best apples in the world as well as the Hants Shore where the the issue of national unity in English he advocated the hard line, 240
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The Address because he was addressing English Canadians, of course, but he In addition to funds for health and education, we will continue used a much more conciliatory tone in French. our attack on unemployment in general and youth unemployment in particular. Programs like Youth Services Canada are already D operating in Windsor—St. Clair to give young people work experi- (1605) ence and a wage while they serve our community.
The hon. member for Simcoe North speaks good French since he The focus of this government is such that we can be assured that is a francophone, but he is also the Parliamentary Secretary to the the concerns of the constituents of Windsor—St. Clair will be met. Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs. I want to ask the hon. member if, as the assistant to the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs, he does recognize the people of Quebec. Is he prepared to I would like to urge the government to work with us on more say, in this House, that there is a Quebec people? Is the hon. specific areas which will help our community to prosper even member prepared to do that? more. It is my belief that an economically prosperous community is able to better overcome other social problems. It is my belief that economic prosperity will lead generally to a better quality of life, Mr. Paul DeVillers: Mr. Speaker, the Bloc Quebecois’ strategy to lower crime rates, to a lack of other social problems, to lower in this debate is clearly to ask all Liberal members the same welfare rates and to a generally better lifestyle. question. Of course, we use inclusive terms such as ‘‘society’’. The word ‘‘people’’ has several connotations which may give rights in international law, but we use the word ‘‘society’’ because it is more One way to do that is to offer more support to our local inclusive. industries. It is no secret that Windsor is Canada’s motor city. I like to say that Windsor is effectively the centre of the universe, but that [English] may not be the case for some of my colleagues. I can say however that it is urgent and very important for our community to see support from the government for the automotive industry. Ms. Shaughnessy Cohen (Windsor—St. Clair, Lib.): Congrat- ulations, Mr. Speaker. The automotive industry employs directly or indirectly approxi- mately half of working Ontarians. It is the biggest employer in our Before commenting on the motion before this House I would like province and as an industrial group the most important employer in to take the opportunity to thank the constituents of Windsor—St. our province. It is of the utmost importance for the Government of Clair for their support in the June election. I am honoured to be Canada to focus on issues like tariffs, apprenticeship training for asked to represent them once again and their faith in our govern- skilled trades and on other areas that will offer support to our ment is not misplaced. domestic automotive industry.
I wish also to thank the many volunteers who supported our campaign and whose friendship I cherish very much. D (1610)
Windsor—St. Clair, which is basically the east end of Windsor, Canada is a trading nation and in the 1960s under the leadership Tecumseh and the village of St. Clair Beach, have once again of Prime Minister Lester Pearson and my predecessor in Wind- placed their faith in our government. Throughout the campaign sor—St. Clair or Windsor—Walkerville as it was then, the Hon. they told us loud and clear what they were concerned about. Those Paul Martin, Sr., the auto pact was signed. The auto pact has things included health care, education, unemployment and in reached an almost sacred position in our community because the particular, youth unemployment. auto pact is the engine that allows those industries to exist, to prosper and employs our citizens. These were local concerns but we would be mistaken to think that the constituents of Windsor—St. Clair have only local con- In my view it is important that the government continue to focus cerns. Indeed they were also concerned about national unity, on agreements like the auto pact, to give them support and strength Canada’s role as a trading nation and Canada’s role as an interna- so that we will have more employment, more prosperity and tional broker of peace, her role generally in the global village. therefore a better quality of life in Windsor, Tecumseh, St. Clair Beach and in the province of Ontario generally. The throne speech and the subsequent address yesterday by the right hon. Prime Minister indicate that the government has listened It is important also that we support other industries. In the last to Windsor—St. Clair. Not only did we listen but we are putting in five or six years the tourism industry has become vital to our place programs to alleviate the concerns that I have outlined. All community. Tourism and particularly the gambling industry fuelled the while we are maintaining our steady attack on both the deficit by Casino Windsor have become extremely important. However, and the debt. Canada will never under a Liberal government, in any there is a fly in the ointment. That fly comes from the Conservative event, return to the financial crisis that we faced when we came to government of the province of Ontario which has consistently power in 1993. refused and neglected to take the steps necessary in order to allow 241
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The Address the government to legalize some aspects of gambling which would Mr. Peter Mancini (Sydney—Victoria, NDP): Mr. Speaker, I help the casino to prosper. I am talking specifically about games of listened with interest to the hon. member across and I listened with dice. interest to her colleague who spoke before her as they say they will continue to build on the financial successes of this government. In the near future we will be faced with competition from gambling facilities in the city of Detroit. Those gambling casinos I think she indicated she would continue to attack the employ- will have dice games. It is important that Windsor have the ment situation. I come from a region of the country that has opportunity to compete but the initiative has to come from the suffered unemployment rates of between 15 percent and 20 p. cent attorney general of Ontario. In spite of consistent promises to the for the continual life of the Liberal government. mayor and citizens of Windsor who want this to happen, nothing has been done to approach our attorney general in order to start the Will the hon. member recognize that there is nothing in the dice rolling, as we say in Windsor. throne speech to address the urgent needs of Cape Bretonners and Newfoundlanders and people in Atlantic Canada who have persis- tently suffered under this economic policy? Tourism is a very important part of what our community can provide to Canada. It is a very important part of the puzzle that is Ms. Shaughnessy Cohen: No, I will not acknowledge that, Mr. unemployment. The more tourism there is, the more service jobs Speaker. I think my hon. friend misses the point here. The point is and jobs in tourism there will be. It seems to me that it is just a this is a throne speech which leads us down the track of prosperity. simple matter of a member of the Ontario government picking up a pen and writing a little note and whisking it off to the Attorney Just as I am disappointed that they did not mention Windsor, General of Canada. Once it gets here I am sure the Essex County Tecumseh and St. Clair Beach, the virtual centre of the universe, I lobby and others can make sure that the request gets the significant am sure he is disappointed that his towns were not mentioned attention it deserves. specifically either.
I hope members do not think this is too much about my The fact is this is a good general plan. Within that plan there will community, but I would like to talk for a minute about the heavy be solutions for Sydney, for the Cape Breton Island, for Windsor, taxation on distilled spirits. We are a town that provides what I like for Tecumseh, for St. Clair Beach. The plan is there. The plan is to think of as one of Canada’s basic food groups, Canadian Club working and the people of Canada have sent us back to continue whisky. Canadian Club is an agri-food product and is also a great with it. symbol of our country in my view. [Translation] The federal government has been trying to initiate discussions with the provinces. However, it is time for all of us to take a look at Mr. Ghislain Fournier (Manicouagan, BQ): Mr. Speaker, I too this commodity which provides hundreds of jobs in my communi- wish to congratulate you on your appointment as acting speaker of ty. The factory is a historic one and it is very important to the the House. community that this serious problem be discussed. Since I am a new member, I would like to take this opportunity to thank my constituents in Manicouagan. Manicouagan is one of In general foreign trade is very important to Windsor. I would the loveliest ridings in Quebec. encourage the Prime Minister to continue his trade missions and to continue to invite businessmen and women from Windsor, Tecum- I listened with great interest to the hon. member’s speech and I seh and St. Clair Beach to join him as he promotes Canada around have two questions for her. Does she admit that the government’s the world. legislative program denies the existence of the people of Quebec and of their culture? As Windsor prospers economically our other problems subside. Our crime rate is lower than it has ever been. When one is Does the member recognize the existence of the people of downtown in the evening going to a movie or to one of our Quebec, and if so, is she going to support and vote in favour of the wonderful restaurants there is a sense of vitality and prosperity amendment presented by the leader of the Bloc Quebecois? there that I challenge any other community in Canada to meet. [English] D (1615) Ms. Shaughnessy Cohen: Mr. Speaker, I see a theme evolving on the Bloc benches. There is a theme on the government benches I would urge the government to take a look at those things I have too. We recognize that there is a Canadian people made up of a outlined that are specifically of importance to Windsor. I would great many diverse groups. also urge the government to continue on the track it is on, and I would ask all members to support the motion of the hon. member I am proud to be a Canadian. I am pretty much satisfied that the from Parkdale with respect to the throne speech. majority of Quebeckers are proud to be Canadians as well. 242
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The Address Mr. Philip Mayfield (Cariboo—Chilcotin, Ref.): Mr. Speaker, which occurred year upon year. It is surprising but at the same time I would like to take this opportunity to congratulate you, sir, on I suppose somewhat remarkable. your appointment to the Chair. You look great. Before anyone decides to heap any praise on the Liberal Party I appreciate the comments that have been made but I wanted to for this predicted balanced budget it is important to clearly identify raise a question about the throne speech opening up a pathway to the reasons why this balanced budget may be occurring. prosperity. I do not think the Liberals should be expecting any praise for the D (1620 ) prediction of a balanced budget. I suggest that this Liberal govern- ment should be giving thanks to the millions of Canadian taxpayers who have been taking all the hits over the last three and a half years The difficulty I see in my riding is that I talk to elderly people as the Liberals have attempted to dig themselves out of this who are having to sell their homes because of clawbacks. They massive financial pit that they along with the Tories, cheered on by have small incomes and they cannot afford to pay the taxes. Youth the NDP, have created for Canadians. cannot get enough money for education. Men and women are losing established jobs from established companies and those jobs I would like to give the House some examples. I am talking are not being replaced. about the employers and the employees of the country who have contributed significantly to the reduction of the deficit through I see nothing in this throne speech which would offer hope to employment insurance overpayments. Let us make it clear that the these people. Is there some mechanism which the Liberal govern- Liberals have been treating the EI surplus as if it were their own ment has in mind to guarantee that taxes will not be raised and to money to put toward deficit reduction and to cover their wasteful give Canadians relief from the taxation which is killing us econom- spending. Everyone who can think clearly has to consider the EI ically and destroying the social fabric of the lives of so many overpayments as being simply another tax. That is what it is, families? another tax.
Ms. Shaughnessy Cohen: Mr. Speaker, that was a long question D (1625 ) and, leaving aside the preamble, the nub of it was are we going to cut taxes. The answer is that there is still a deficit and there is still a Would it not be preferable to let Canadian workers keep the debt. As well we have some spending to do to assist Canadians with amount of this EI overpayment and let them have the freedom to respect to health care, education and youth unemployment. spend, invest or save? All these things would create jobs in this country and would help to get a more buoyant economy. Let me say that when the deficit is settled, when we are sure that the country is healthy, we will spend time looking at taxation. We Would it not be preferable to let Canadian businesses and will spend time looking at the debt. We will make sure that Canada employers keep their overpayment to the EI fund as well so they is on the right track. We will do what the Canadian people elected could invest in their businesses and hire more people, which would us to do. also lead to the creation of a more buoyant economy?
Mr. Dick Harris (Prince George—Bulkley Valley, Ref.): Mr. Talking about people who have taken hits, let us not forget the Speaker, I am pleased to be able to speak today in response to the public servants in this country who have been working since 1990 throne speech. without a raise. They have also been forced to make a tremendous sacrifice because of previous Liberal-Tory overspending. I want to thank the constituents of Prince George—Bulkley Valley who in the June election gave me a huge victory. I want to I also believe the Liberals should give thanks for their deficit commit to them, as I have in the past, that my task here is to reduction prediction to the people in Canada’s poorer provinces represent their voices and concerns to this Parliament. My promise who have had to bear the brunt of Liberal offloading because of to them was to keep the Liberals accountable for every single thing reduced equalization payments. they try to do, and I will do that. This is my favourite one. Let us not forget that during the last It is predicted that the Liberal government will in 1998-99 three and a half years of Parliament this Liberal government, this achieve a balanced budget, using Liberal numbers. I do not know very Liberal government that is going around looking for pats on whether we can trust Liberal numbers, but let us say they are fairly the back for its balanced budget prediction, increased taxes in this accurate. It must be remembered that this could be the first country in 36 different areas. There were 36 individual tax in- balanced budget that we have had in some 30 years. It is sort of creases brought in by this government. It wrenched out of the ironic considering that some members of the government are the pockets of ordinary Canadians, Canadian businesses and Canadian same members who sat in previous Liberal governments which investors over $25 billion in increased tax revenue. Let us not helped to run up our massive debt and helped to create our deficits forget that. 243
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The Address Is the government heading for a balanced budget because it has to assume that by the time someone gets to be a senior he or she been prudent in saving money? Mr. Speaker, I know you will agree probably has his or her sex life figured out pretty well. with me that is not the case. Let us not forget how the Liberals got there. Let us not be too anxious to go over and pat them on The throne speech is like a shell game. I am glad that we are the the backs as they are expecting. We see the Liberals running official opposition because without the Reform Party here the around seeking praise for such a great job they say that they have Liberals would not even be talking about reducing the deficit. I done but, to use the famous phrase of the finance minister, the assure the House that we are going to keep the pressure on. fact is what they have really been doing is pulling on their magic tax lever to fill their coffers while Canadian businesses and Canadian workers have had less and less to spend, less and less Our approach to ensuring responsible future spending will to invest and less and less to save. include asking Canadians what their priorities are. Do they want debt retirement, tax relief, reinvestment in health and education or a combination of all of these? In the throne speech they mentioned the word partnership many times, over 10 times. Given the Liberals’ performance one can only With the Reform Party as the official opposition, and these assume that the Liberal definition of partnership means ‘‘you work, Liberals know it, the government is finally going to learn the send us most of your wages and hey, we’re partners’’. The sad part difference between good spending and bad spending. I know the of this is that despite all the taxes Canadians are paying, by the end difference, Reformers know the difference and ordinary Canadians of the century we will still only be getting about 68 percent in know the difference. By the time this Parliament is through, the services for every dollar they send to this place. Liberals are going to know the difference.
Let us also remember that these tax and spend Liberals are not as Mr. Joe Comuzzi (Thunder Bay—Nipigon, Lib.): Mr. Speak- compassionate as they like to appear. They took little or no notice er, I am very pleased to be able to respond to the question posed by of the pain they were inflicting on Canadian families, Canadian my friend from Prince George. First, let me congratulate you, Mr. workers and Canadian businesses over these last three and a half Speaker, on assuming your position in the chair today. We are sure years as they grabbed this tax lever and over and over again pulled that you will fulfil the mandate required of all Speakers. All of us it and pulled billions of dollars more into their coffers. on this side of the House wish you well. Someone on the other side who was speaking earlier made some reference to your looks. I can To add insult to injury, at the same time these Liberals were tell you, Mr. Speaker, from my advantage point down here you look heaping tax upon tax on the Canadian people, they were still a lot better than the people to your left. pursuing their insatiable appetite for spending money in ridiculous and wasteful ways. Our member for St. Albert has a weekly waste I am really quite taken aback by my friend who just spoke. report. I would like to read a few of the ways the Liberals have Evidently he has not been listening to his leader for the last two or spent some of the money so that people can get this into perspec- three years. All we have heard from the Reform Party is its interest tive. in making sure that we had a balanced budget and that we reduced a horrendous debt that was left to us. I do not know how to refer to The Liberals thought it prudent to give the multibillion dollar Reform members, but would it be kind to say they were kissing company American Express $17,000. One has to ask did they get cousins of the previous government that had the administration of any flyer points for that. How about Big Bill’s furniture and this country for nine years? If not kissing cousins, they slept in appliance store, $176,000. I wonder if that is a relative of one of the close proximity to each other. Liberal ministers. How about Nothing Fancy stores, $89,000. Here is one that I should not be upset about but I am. A golf tournament The debt that we inherited in 1993 was what the Reform Party, for literacy received $85,000. when it first came into the House, talked about incessantly.
D (1630 ) What we have done as a Liberal government in four short years is simply this. We have eliminated the deficit which is what Reformers have been talking about. Once we have the deficit in this Literacy is a good cause. However, I would like to remind the country under control then we can take a good run at working on House that I host an annual golf tournament for the special the debt that was assumed by their kissing cousins or whatever way Olympics organization in my riding. I do not get any grant. I raise we want to refer to them. $25,000 a year on that one-day golf tournament. I do not ask the government for a grant. I go out and look for sponsors, supporters Before we took government, if they look at the facts of the and people who believe in the cause. I do not look to the Canadian situation, the debt in this country was $140 billion. When the taxpayer for money. Conservative government left power it was about $530 billion. We have been able to temper that debt over the last four years by It goes on and on. One hundred and sixteen thousand dollars was something under $600 million. We are beginning to reduce the debt given to a committee to study the sexual habits of seniors. One has because we know how to administer the financial affairs of the 244
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The Address country. That is basically what their leader has been saying and that I have been asked to speak in reply to the Speech from the is what we have done. Throne. The Speech from the Throne is remarkable. It occurred to me that it was simply a more stilted and formal version of the 56 I cannot believe that my good from from Prince George is not page red book II, the one that we released ahead of the Prime giving the Liberal Party and ourselves the credit for that. I would Minister. It was a book filled with congratulations. The govern- like him to respond to that, but just one more minute. ment congratulated itself on what it sees somehow as a brilliant record. But let us take a closer look at that fiscal and economic record. I want to know what my friend from Prince George has against finding out about the sexual habits of seniors? What has the hon. member got against the senior citizens in this country? Could he The Liberals talk about job creation and prosperity. What we respond to that please. have today is 1.4 million Canadians out of work. We are now in the 98th straight month of unemployment over 9 percent, the longest string of high unemployment since the great depression. That is the D (1635) economic record of this government. Youth unemployment is over 17 percent. In some regions it exceeds 25 percent. Young people, Mr. Dick Harris: First of all, Mr. Speaker, let me assure the people of my generation, are without hope. They have lost econom- member from Thunder Bay that he will never ever find a Reformer ic opportunity because of the policies of this government. kissing a Tory. That is a certain thing. We have seen a 7 percent decline in the after tax family income Second, I have nothing against seniors having fun. My parents of the average family since the beginning of this decade because of are seniors and they are always happy, so obviously they do not the tax increases of the Liberal government and its Tory predeces- need any books. sor.
There is an interesting point about reducing the deficit though. A quarter of Canadians tell us that they go to bed worried about Yes, we have been talking about this Liberal government getting job security, worried about whether the next day they are going to the deficit reduced. The difference is that we wanted the govern- have enough money to put bread on the table and take care of their ment to reduce it by cutting its insatiable spending appetite, by families. We see anaemic economic growth of under 3 per cent. cutting the grants and handouts that are rampant throughout the While we have 9 percent unemployment, our largest trading waste reports, by cutting the patronage organizations, such as the partner, the United States, has an unemployment rate of almost half western economic diversification fund and the economic develop- that. Our second largest trading partner, Japan, has an unemploy- ment funds that are in eastern Canada, all the hundreds of millions ment rate at a third of that level. The government calls this an of dollars that it gives to Quebec companies to keep the Bloc off its economic record to be proud of. back. The Liberals tell us that they have managed nearly to balance the We ask the government to be more prudent and reduce its budget which they helped to create over the last 25 years with their spending. That is something that is foreign to a Liberal govern- Conservative friends. How did they do that? By acting responsibly ment. Yes, it may get to a balanced budget but it has done it, as I as so many of the provincial governments did? By acting in the said, by wrenching an additional over $25 billion out of Canadian same way a small business or family would by paring back the taxpayers, Canadian workers and Canadian business. That is why non-essentials, by cutting? No, it was done by increasing the tax the government is having such a hard time getting the unemploy- burden on Canadian families, by killing jobs, by increasing payroll ment rate down. It knows, though it will never admit it, that taxes taxes. It has income tax hikes riding on top of the de-indexation of kill jobs. the tax system imposed by the Tories in 1986. That grosses $23 billion in new government revenues through 36 tax increases on top Mr. Jason Kenney (Calgary Southeast, Ref.): Mr. Speaker, of the 72 tax increases introduced by the Mulroney Tories. That is first of all I would like to congratulate you on your appointment. the shameful fiscal record of this government. And what has it We are very confident that you will be an impartial Speaker. It is a done? great thing to see you there. It is a great thing for your constituents as well. D (1640) I would also like at the beginning of my maiden speech in the House of Commons to thank my constituents for this great It has added $100 billion of debt and called it responsible fiscal privilege. It is a humbling experience to stand in this great management. That $100 billion brings our total indebtedness to just Chamber of democratic deliberation for the first time and experi- under $600 billion which, of course, does not include another $600 ence what the veterans are familiar with. I only hope that I can, in billion in the Canada pension plan Ponzi scheme for which my whatever modest way, meet the aspirations and expectations of my generation is going to have to pay. That is the fiscal record of this constituents of Calgary Southeast. government which has led to $47 billion a year in annual interest 245
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The Address payments, a sum large enough to be the operating budgets of five of In closing I invite my colleagues on the opposite side of the the the smaller provincial governments. That is a shameful record House to take a serious look at the kind of economic record that 30 and one it ought not to applaud. years of Liberal and Tory big government spending has brought us. Governments around the world are doing that. So what is the answer? One would think that here in this last Parliament of this century, in this throne speech which sets the The government’s ideological friend in Washington, President agenda for the new millennium that there would be a great vision, a Bill Clinton, a Democrat, said last year that the era of big new departure, a new direction for Canada. It might take the advice government is over. The Labour Prime Minister in the United of the overwhelming majority of the people in the business Kingdom said that the end of the welfare state has come. Yet this communities who know how to create wealth because they do it government is the only Liberal government in the developed world every day. which seems to think that the old policies of the welfare state are the ones that can sustain a healthy and prosperous economy.
Instead, the government has gone back to the traditional, old 1970s Liberal policies of bigger government, chequebook politics, D (1645) trying to buy the votes of its special interest friends by opening up the treasury yet once more for all its pet projects. The throne Their allies overseas and outside this country know differently. speech is filled with page after page of new spending programs. Governments like the New Democratic one in Saskatchewan know There was only one mention of tax decreases and debt reduction differently. Provincial governments that have made the hard deci- while we are sitting in the midst of an economic crisis in the sions know differently. It is time that this government finally came country. There is no imagination, no vision in this throne speech. down on the side of fiscal responsibility, growth, hope and opportunity for Canadians by providing them with real meaningful Why can the government not think about the kind of real tax relief. economic distress that real Canadians are feeling? For instance, what about providing Canadian families with tax fairness? The Mr. Reg Alcock (Winnipeg South, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I would government’s throne speech is filled with talk about children who like to start by congratulating the member on what I believe is his do not seem to have families, children who seem to be the worthy first speech in the House. I would like to welcome him to the recipients of government programs designed by the Liberal govern- House. I am going to try to be very quick because I know the ment’s social engineers. It does not talk about traditional families member for Broadview—Greenwood would also like to ask a who choose to have a parent stay at home to raise their children question. receiving tax fairness, even though this House with all party support in the last Parliament passed Motion No. 30 sponsored by the member for Mississauga South, calling for tax fairness in the We on this side of the House heard the message of the last tax code. The government has done nothing to act on that. It seems election. We won a majority government, something that has not to be satisfied with penalizing families who make the sacrifice of happened that often in this country. The people endorsed our giving up a second income to get by. They really believe that programs. Liberal politicians and big government bureaucrats know better how to spend a dollar raised from the taxpayers than does a family I would like the member, who has been thoughtful on these or small business person or someone who is struggling to get a foot issues for some time, to step aside from the rhetoric that he has up in the labour market. brought into this House from his research department and sit down and itemize for me on the record the cuts that he would make in I want the government to listen to the message it got from the order to do it differently. last election. It came within a whisker of losing power. We know that the Liberal Party exists to take and maintain power. The Mr. Jason Kenney: Mr. Speaker, I would hate to point out to the government ought to listen to the message that was sent by the member that they won a majority government but with the smallest voters. The message was, let us not go back to the future. Let us try percentage of popular vote in Canadian history for a majority a different approach. government. If that is not chastisement with a divided opposition, I do not know what is. We still see the Liberal arrogance creeping into that member’s comments. What about tax fairness for families? Heaven forbid, what about cutting capital gains taxes to increase investment and productivity, to reward people for taking risks in our economy? What about We were very clear in our fresh start platform document about cutting payroll taxes so that we are not penalizing people for precisely which programs we thought were priorities and those that creating jobs and small businesses? What about cutting income we thought could be cut. Let us talk about some of this. How about taxes and doing it now so that people can see the light at the end of eliminating grants and handouts to special interest groups whose the tunnel and not just another big government spending program? sole purpose is to demand more government spending? How about Why can it not see that there is a different solution. paring back some of the giveaway programs of the hon. Minister of 246
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The Address Canadian Heritage, like her $23 million flag giveaway? How about Canadians with tax relief if you are spending the money instead of starting with the hon. members pension plan? reducing it. It is a simple mathematical thing.
Mr. Speaker, 51 of 52 of my colleagues in the last Parliament Perhaps you have never balanced a family budget. Heaven gave up their pensions as a sign of sacrifice, as have many knows this Liberal government has never balanced a government provincial legislators engaged in the same deficit cutting exercise. budget. But when you cut your spending, you get a surplus and that Why don’t my hon. friends start with the same kind of leadership means that you can reduce people’s taxes. That is why we have by example? been pushing successive governments in this country since the Reform Party was founded a decade ago to get our finances under control so we could let Canadians keep more of their own money. It Mr. Bryon Wilfert (Oak Ridges, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, first of all is not money that belongs to this Parliament or this government or I would like to congratulate you on your appointment and I would the Liberal Party of Canada. It is money that belongs to Canadians like to congratulate the member on his election. and they ought to be able to keep it.
It is unfortunate that there are not more members in the House The Deputy Speaker: I regret to inform the large number of today. It may be due to the fact that we keep hearing all the members who want to ask questions that the time for questions and negativism. Canadians are fed up with negativism. Clearly we comments has expired. point out to the member that his party not that long ago talked about the deficit as the number one issue in this country. The hon. member for Broadview—Greenwood on a point of order. Maybe the member of the opposition went to the school of Orwellian politics, doublespeak. On the one hand, they want the Mr. Dennis J. Mills: Mr. Speaker, this member of Parliament, deficit eliminated. Now the deficit is being eliminated and they say who has just arrived here, as we all know, is one of the foremost ‘‘Well gee, we don’t like the way this is being done’’. experts in the country on the whole issue of tax reform. I wonder if we could have the unanimous consent of the House to extend this My comment is that in order to stimulate the economy, we had to period of questioning for a few more minutes because we cannot let get that deficit down, slay that $42 billion dragon. Clearly there are him off this easy. more Canadians going back to work. We saw 900,000 Canadians put back to work because of this government and the actions of this The Deputy Speaker: Is there unanimous consent to extend the government. Want ads are fuller today than they have ever been. time for questions and comments?
Clearly reducing taxes, yes, I think all Canadians would like to Some hon. members: Agreed. see taxes reduced. The question is the timing of those reductions basically because, if we are taking in more money in order to be Mr. Dennis J. Mills (Broadview—Greenwood, Lib.): Mr. able to deal with the deficit and certainly the debt—we have a $600 Speaker, thank you very much. I am happy to be here in the House billion debt which I hope they would deal with—I would say that for the member’s maiden speech. I have always had great respect the hon. member talks about chequebook politics. Could he explain for the member’s work in the whole area of tax reform. I sincerely to me what are the chequebook politics? Helping Canadians I welcome his presence here in the House with the Reform Party believe is what the government is doing in the throne speech. because during the last Parliament, with the exception of Mr. Silye, Maybe he should read that. very few of the members of the Reform Party really stuck with the whole issue of tax reform. Could the member comment on what he defines as chequebook politics? One of the reasons why they failed to stick with this issue was because they talk about the tax grants to social organizations, but Mr. Jason Kenney: Mr. Speaker, talk about Orwellian rhetoric. the real tax grants in this country are the tax expenditures that are My goodness, that is quite a question. I am not sure whether the buried in the 1,500 pages of the tax act and most of those tax grants member is from the Liberal or Tory party seated to my right and I go to large multinational organizations. They are in the guise of am not sure that it matters. saying they will give them this tax expenditure or this tax grant so they can stimulate jobs. No accountability.
D (1650 ) I want to ask the member of Parliament for Calgary Southeast if he will undertake to make sure in this Parliament that he will The simple answer is yes, we did call for the elimination of the champion eliminating all of those hidden unaccountable tax expen- deficit and the reduction of the debt, not as an end in itself but as a ditures, especially those that go to the oil and gas industry in means to an end. That end is greater prosperity, hope, growth and western Canada. I want him to make sure that he will stand in this opportunity for Canadians through tax relief. You cannot provide House and champion that part of tax reform. 247
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The Address Mr. Jason Kenney: Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. There are a couple of things I would like to share with the House member for his kind words and extend some of my own. this afternoon.
I have enormous respect for the hon. member for Broadview— First I would like everyone to know why I support the Speech Greenwood’s long and principled crusade for tax reform in this from the Throne as presented by the governor general on the country. He has been against the stream in his party and his opening day of this Parliament. government in calling for a single tax that would ultimately give Canadians what I advocate as well. Second I would like to offer the government an idea. It is an idea which builds on the agenda presented in the Speech from the Would I support the elimination of all the so-called tax expendi- Throne and one which would effect real change in the perception tures? Of course not because the single largest tax expenditure is and effectiveness of government. the RRSP which most Canadians rely on for their retirement savings. It is important to recognize the foundations which were laid for Canada and Canadians by those who have sat in this House throughout the last century, those who have shaped Canada’s There are of course tax preferences that some large companies identity from coast to coast and abroad. have which I think are unreasonable in terms of creating a hugely complex tax system and which require tens of thousands of tax We are known for our Canadian values, generosity of spirit and lawyers, accountants and bureaucrats at Revenue Canada at untold collective action; values which have set us apart in the areas of public expense to administer. health care, foreign affairs and peacekeeping; all those characteris- tics which lend to our pride in our country and the respect of the However I think the solution is not to eliminate those things maple leaf worldwide. while keeping the same tax rates thereby squeezing more revenue out of the economy. If we are going to eliminate exemptions and In addition to Canadian values, much of our success is based on deductions and credits for individuals and for companies, we need at least four principles of Canadian liberalism as laid out by Sir to do it within the context of overall radical tax reform which Wilfrid Laurier. results in overall lower tax levels for Canadians. On that condition I would support it. The first is faith in the individual, which implies freedom of the individual to make his or her own decisions within the constraints The Deputy Speaker: Are hon. members rising on questions or of a democratic society. comments? Is it the wish of the House to continue with questions and comments in this case? The second principle is compassion for the underprivileged, a principle which is the underpinning of a social safety net which Some hon. members: No. Canadians of all parties speak of with pride.
D (1655 ) Third is the principle of tolerance toward individuals and groups. It is this principle which enabled Laurier and his successors to bridge the ethnic, racial and cultural differences which characterize The Deputy Speaker: In fairness to the other members who are Canada. on the list to speak, I think it might be more prudent to continue with the debate. The fourth principle is that of reform, pushing to develop new policies in keeping with changing times. Ms. Karen Redman (Kitchener Centre, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, it is both an honour and a privilege for me to rise in my place as the The Speech from the Throne provided the vision as to how this new member for the riding of Kitchener Centre to participate in the government, the 36th Parliament, will continue to act on these Speech from the Throne debate. I am sharing my time with the hon. principles, and to ensure and work to enhance the quality of living member for Wentworth—Burlington. we experience as Canadians.
I am both honoured and humbled by the support of the people of The theme of partnership permeated the Speech from the Kitchener Centre who have brought me here to Ottawa. As well, I Throne; partnership between governments, provincial, territorial would like to acknowledge and send good wishes to my predeces- and federal; partnership between the public and private sector, sor, Dr. John English, who has moved on to new challenges while large corporations, small businesses, communities and individuals; he continues his work on the anti-personnel landmine issue. partnerships which will provide a well-rounded, multifaceted approach to program development and delivery. It is the faith of Kitchener Centre in my ability to represent their best interests which has brought me to this historical seat of I am pleased with the government’s commitment to this type of democracy to be a part of the historic second consecutive Liberal collaboration as I believe it is important for the government to government, the last Parliament of the 20th century and the one address issues on local and regional levels with the assistance of which will lead Canada into the next millennium. supporting organizations, businesses and government services. 248
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The Address One of the outstanding characteristics of my riding is the high recognize the areas which require attention: continued quality degree of volunteerism from the community and the willingness health care, reduced child poverty, improved community safety, of the corporate sector to support both with personnel and funds lower unemployment and sustained economic growth. All these the initiatives which the community values. areas must be addressed without jeopardizing how far our govern- ment has come in getting our fiscal house in order. In the Speech It is the government’s ability to draw on the strengths of our from the Throne the government has offered a positive approach to country’s differences which will build a stronger Canada. these issues through strategic investments.
Kitchener is fortunate to be a part of Canada’s technology I propose that our government promote the integration of various triangle comprised of high tech companies located in Kitchener- government services and agencies to target the issues and work Waterloo, Cambridge and Guelph. The success of partnership in together with the business community, faith communities and the these areas demonstrates that no longer can any one group or sector volunteer sector to create private and public partnerships. As effectively operate and succeed in isolation. This initiative has suggested in the Speech from the Throne, if we tackle the problem created a vehicle with which our area is able to compete in a global together we will gain strength as a country. economy. As stated in the Speech from the Throne ‘‘one in three Canadian jobs depend on trade’’. I come to the 36th Parliament with one agenda: to be the best representative I can be, to fulfil this role with energy and dignity, D (1700) and to participate in the development and implementation of legislation that is good for all Canadians. In the last Parliament the government made progress in promot- ing trade both within our borders and beyond through reducing The Speech from the Throne set the foundation for an exciting internal trade barriers and using the team Canada approach to open and fulfilling term. Together we can bring a stronger, united doors to Canadian businesses in Asia. Canada into the next millennium.
A number of Kitchener area businesses which were represented Mr. Lee Morrison (Cypress Hills—Grasslands, Ref.): Mr. on that mission have benefited from increased international de- Speaker, at the onset I congratulate you on your well earned mand. The success of this approach demonstrates what can be appointment. I also congratulate the hon. member on her maiden accomplished when governments and the private sector work speech. together. The hon. member sang a hymn of praise to team Canada and told I am pleased with the government’s commitment to build on this us about all the wonderful things that happened as a result of its success with a focused strategy. I am confident that upcoming team overseas missions. The figures are in; I am sure she is aware of Canada missions will be as fruitful for Kitchener area businesses as them. Our exports have dropped substantially to every area where well as others throughout Canada. By mounting these initiatives there was a team Canada mission. This is a fact as presented in the the government is providing fitting leadership which facilitates government’s own figures. If this is indeed the case, why is she so lasting job creation in the private sector. proud of the work of team Canada?
Tourism plays a significant role in the economic mosiac of D (1705) Kitchener and surrounding areas. Many visitors, future residents and investors became acquainted with our community through tourism. Kitchener’s rich ethnic diversity and cultural wealth have My second question, if she will be so kind as to address two of certainly aided the development of various industries including them, is with respect to internal trade barriers. She said the right tourism. things, that we have to bring down internal trade barriers. My question to her is when and how. Kitchener is the ninth largest destination for new immigrants. The community benefits greatly from the contributions of these The Government of Canada has the constitutional power to do citizens. I am sure many are familiar with what has become this. We have a constitution that says that interprovincial trade Kitchener’s most famous celebration by far, Ocktoberfest, a won- must be free and open. What does the government have in mind? derful celebration of the largest German population in Canada When will it get off its tail and actually do it? drawing an average of 700,000 participants each year. It is an excellent example of people taking pride in their heritage and Ms. Karen Redman: Mr. Speaker, I will reply to the two working together for the benefit of the entire community. The questions the hon. member has posed. associated economic benefits are in the millions of dollars and continue to grow each year. The city of Kitchener was able to send a mayor on team Canada to the Pacific rim. The message he brought back was the fact that While Kitchener enjoys steady growth, the health of a communi- people in other countries needed to have a relationship built up ty cannot be measured solely in economic terms. We must also over time. To look for a quick turnaround and have all government 249
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The Address policy be a bottom line ledger is not quite practical. We are looking I will begin by commenting on the speech in reply to the Speech for long term gains. It is an investment that will accrue over several from the Throne by the member for Calgary Southwest, the Leader years. of the Opposition. I draw the attention of the House to two points he made. As far as the internal trade barriers are concerned, I mentioned in my comments about partnership. One thing that a partnership relies D (1710) on is a relationship between the two parties. While we may have the federal power to impose, it is much better if we can bring the provinces along with us. We have to acknowledge that when we He condemned the Speech from the Throne because it did not share a vision we have to let the partner help shape it. I have every state anything about the accountability of MPs. I find this rather confidence the government will get where it needs to be. confusing because MPs are naturally very accountable. We are one of the most accountable people in the land simply because if the [Translation] people of Canada, the electorate, do not like us or are not satisfied with us they can fire us every four or five years, or whatever the case may be. They can fire us nonetheless. The Reform Party and Mr. Ghislain Fournier (Manicouagan, BQ): Mr. Speaker, once hopefully some of the new parties might bear that in mind. again, I have listened carefully to what the hon. member had to say, and like all her colleagues, she did not mention the people of Quebec’s interest. The other point is that the member for Calgary Southwest probably meant we should be seeking more accountability from government machinery. We are all here to try to make government I think this is important, and I wish to pursue the point, because run better and more effectively for Canadians. One of the ways of when I came to Ottawa, to this House, I came with my head held achieving that is to strive for more accountability within govern- high, because the people of Quebec elected us. We represent 60 per ment machinery, all government departments. All MPs on all sides cent of the members from Quebec, and we have a sovereignist of the House share this responsibility. We express this responsibil- government in Quebec City with whom we share the same option ity by the questions we pose in committee. and which holds 80 per cent of the seats there. I spent some time on the government operations committee Those of you who believe the polls, who try to say that we are when we scrutinized a number of departments and found a number not legitimate and that the people of Quebec do not want sovereign- of flaws. Many of the flaws were due to a lack of accountability. I ty, are in for some surprises. am quite happy to say that the search for better government was not exclusively Liberal. It was predominantly Liberal, but I was I have two questions for the member who just spoke. I would like assisted by my colleagues, members of the Reform Party and the to know if she admits that the government’s legislative program Bloc Quebecois. denies the existence of the people of Quebec and of their culture? Does the member recognize the existence of the people of Quebec? As MPs we are accountable. It is the machinery of government If so, is she prepared to support the amendment presented by the we must scrutinize. Reform Party members certainly have no leader of the Bloc Quebecois? exclusivity on the desire to bring accountability to government and to reform government. Just because they have the name Reform in [English] their party title does not mean they are the only MPs who seek reform. Ms. Karen Redman: Mr. Speaker, I acknowledge that one of the exciting parts of coming to the House of Parliament and this The member for Calgary Southwest also criticized the Speech democratic process steeped in history was to be able to brush from the Throne because it devolved certain responsibilities that elbows with people in all parts of Canada. were once federal to the provinces. The member for Calgary Southwest complained this devolution was done purely for admin- istrative means. He said that his party, were it in power, would have My Canada includes Quebec. It is a vibrant, thriving society. passed a bill and made these changes statutory. He is referring to transferring certain responsibilities for forestry, social housing, Mr. John Bryden (Wentworth—Burlington, Lib.): Mr. Speak- mining and several other issues to the provinces. er, I congratulate my colleague from Kitchener Centre not only on her maiden speech but also on her excellent replies. I remind members opposite that Ontario is experiencing the consequences of transferring power, that is the power to control the It is very difficult to come into the House and suddenly face responsibility for social housing. What happens when it is given to opposition questions. It will be difficult to follow that act, as it a provincial government that does not have the same spirit of were, but I will try to do my very best. generosity and caring as the federal government? 250
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The Address In Ontario right now there is a controversy. The Ontario Similarly later I visited Quebec. I visited first Montreal and then government wants to have no responsibility whatsoever for look- Quebec City, actually right at the height of the FLQ crisis. ing after the poor and the disadvantaged people in society who occupy social housing. Now it is devolving it to the municipalities. [Translation]
The lesson for us is that we ought to make sure that when we What I found was a unique and vibrant society, whose language I transfer federal powers we transfer them in a way in which we can did not understand. A marvellous society. I have become a take them back if we need do so. That is the situation in Ontario. federalist with my heart in the mountains and in the province of Quebec, because of that. More unfortunate in the remarks of the Leader of the Opposition was that he suggested transfers of responsibilities should be done [English] by statutes. When he says that, because he is talking about provincial and federal powers, he can only mean changes to the I think the prime minister is right on when he said that the new Constitution. Parliament and the Speech from the Throne, even though it did not express it very well, but he expressed it so much better, should be All Canadians from sea to sea were fed up with attempts to about the future generation, the new generation of Canadians, change the Constitution by a previous party that I would prefer to Canada’s young people. leave nameless in the House. Canadians do not want to see tampering with the Constitution. It is the last thing Canadians want. I would like to conclude with a quote. The prime minister said I am absolutely amazed the Leader of the Opposition should this part of his speech in English and so with a certain amount of propose going into the Constitution again. pride and perhaps trepidation I will attempt to say the prime minister’s words in French. Here is what he said and I do not think I All I can say is good luck. Look at what happened to a former could say it better. Conservative prime minister. [Translation] I have to come to the Speech from the Throne. He said: [Translation] We have built that nation and we continue to shape its elements. Our young will do so in the next century. Their architecture will be new but it will be Canadian. I am sorry, but I found it a bit uninspiring. I think that the throne Greatness may have a different meaning, but it will still be Canadian. speech lacked eloquence and inspiration. The ideas are good, they are all good, but the speech did not have what I was looking for. That is the essence of the Speech from the Throne.
D (1715) [English]
Fortunately the next day the Prime Minister spoke on the Speech Mr. Gary Lunn (Saanich—Gulf Islands, Ref.): Mr. Speaker, I from the Throne, and I found his remarks full of eloquence and would like to bring to the attention of the House the member’s ideas. I found him eloquent on the subject of the government’s comments and his criticisms against the member for Calgary ideas. Southeast. He was quite critical of the member when he was referring to accountability in suggesting that he has an exclusive on [English] accountability and suggesting that the Liberal Party can be just as accountable and its members can as well. I especially like the idea in the prime minister’s remarks of supporting young people. I have to tell the House that I wanted to D (1720) see the Speech from the Throne talk about citizenship, getting rid of the monarchy and a number of other things. Instead I found a I would like to remind the member that it is very easy to speak of Speech from the Throne that was directed to helping Canada’s accountability but the Reform Party has an absolute exclusivity on youth. One of the most important points in the prime minister’s actions when it comes to accountability. That is the only way he is remarks was the fact that he proposed more exchanges of young going to be able to show the Canadian people accountability, people across Canada. He mentioned that when he was young he through actions like giving up his pension. The Liberal Party has remembers sitting in kitchens in Saskatchewan, shooting pool in not come through with actions on accountability, but the Reform Newfoundland and that kind of thing. Party leads the way.
I can relate to that because when I was young I travelled across Mr. John Bryden: Mr. Speaker, as an individual member I Canada, the first time out to the Rockies, into Reform country if would like to refer the member opposite to some of my efforts with you will, and saw the Rocky Mountains for the first time. I was respect to bringing accountability to charitable organizations inspired. It is beautiful country. Any Reform MP who is from the which, in a sense, are government organizations in the sense that Rockies or the prairies should be proud of it. they receive taxpayer dollars. 251
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The Address Also I think when he gains a bit more experience around here I now wish to take this opportunity to thank the people of he will discover that there have been many initiatives not just Rimouski—Mitis for giving me their support. Mr. Speaker, I among Liberal colleagues but among Reform colleagues and Bloc realize you have already visited our lovely region and enjoyed the Quebecois colleagues that have sought better accountability in beauty of the St. Lawrence and our forests. I happen to live in one government, something we all do as MPs and we all should do of Quebec’s many beautiful regions, but this one is particularly as MPs or we certainly ought not to be here. I think the member attractive, in my opinion. for Calgary Southwest should have recognized that he was criticiz- ing MPs as MPs rather than criticizing the government. He got I will now comment on the Speech from the Throne. The Liberal a little confused there, if you will. government could have taken advantage of the initial days of this new Parliament to take some concrete action that would have [Translation] shown they have a number of answers to the problems besetting Canadian and Quebec society. Mr. Stéphan Tremblay (Lac-Saint-Jean, BQ): Mr. Speaker, first I wish to congratulate you on your appointment. You are one D (1725) of the Reform Party members with whom I have had the opportuni- ty to work. In fact, when we worked together, it was precisely on a youth initiative program, as our colleague mentioned earlier. Unfortunately, the government is not really working for the people. It would rather perpetuate the doctrine of Pierre Elliott What I want to ask the hon. member is whether he admits that Trudeau, who advocated a dominating and centralizing federal the federal government is about to get fully involved in areas under government and would not recognize the identity and aspirations of provincial jurisdiction. the people of Quebec.
Mr. Speaker, you will remember that the national conference on Lester B. Pearson’s legacy has completely disappeared. I will youth and the new economy had young participants from every- remind the House that Mr. Pearson had asked that the Laurendeau- where, including eastern and western Canada, Quebec and other Dunton Commission recommend steps to ensure that the Canadian regions of the country. These people from every region of the confederation would develop in accordance with the principle of country told us that these youth initiatives, these employment two equal founding peoples. Those days are really gone now. initiatives must be implemented, to the extent possible, where the problems are, namely in the regions. In other words, we must take Of course, in the eyes of the Liberal government, there is no such measures that are appropriate to the specific problems of the thing as a Quebec culture. In fact, the Prime Minister once said regions. there is only one, Canadian culture, which may be of French or English expression. The Speech from the Throne may talk about a Listening to the hon. member opposite, one gets the impression ‘‘tolerant and highly diverse society’’, but the government still fails that the federal government is the saviour of the world and that the to recognize the basic historical fact that Quebec is one of the municipalities and provincial governments have no jurisdiction and founding peoples of this country. are not accountable to the public. Upon reading the throne speech, one cannot help but conclude that the federal government is trying I will use the rest of my time commenting on how empty this to get involved in areas under provincial jurisdiction and to Speech from the Throne, the third one of the Chrétien years, is. It enhance its visibility. only gets worse. The vacuum is particularly noticeable in the area of cultural development. This lack of vision and commitment is sad I have a question for the hon. member. What does the federal for Quebec as well as for Canada. Quebec however has a way out: government have to gain from getting involved in areas under relaim all its powers and achieve sovereignty in a hurry. provincial jurisdiction? During the 35th Parliament, the government demonstrated that Mr. John Bryden: Mr. Speaker, in my opinion it is simple. The culture was not one of its major concerns. It contented itself with federal government’s most important responsibility is to help micro-managing seriously reduced budgets. In addition to cutting young people everywhere in the country, including those from back funding, it did nothing to encourage culture. It has taken the Ontario and Quebec. This is a great and most important challenge. relentless efforts of the Bloc Quebecois to persuade the Liberals finally to bring in copyright reform. Mrs. Suzanne Tremblay (Rimouski—Mitis, BQ): Mr. Speak- er, I would like to start, first of all, by thanking the people of In its speech, the government says it wants to make it possible Témiscouata who supported me for three and a half years during for Canadian culture to reach audiences abroad. We can only hope my first term. For the information of the hon. member opposite, as that this intention will take the form of support for creators and a result of electoral reform, Témiscouata is now part of the riding cultural industries. We do not want to see a repeat of last year’s of Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup—Témiscouata—Les Basques, attempts to force artists to promote Canadian unity, or to judge represented by our colleague, Paul Crête. projects on the basis of political rather than artistic criteria, or to 252
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The Address require artists to pay a visit to the member for Verdun, whom they In the same vein, the $45 million in cuts made by the Liberal did not know and had never met, in order to collect their cheque. government have resulted in the National Film Board’s virtually abandoning its assistance to independent film making, and this particularly jeopardizes the careers of the young film and video The government speaks proudly of our films. What it should do makers who represent the future of their industry. is conduct an in-depth review of Telefilm Canada’s film policy, which was seriously criticized in an internal report. One of the things this report mentions is an overall lack of funding—cuts of We read in the Speech from the Throne that the government, and $84 million do not go unnoticed in a budget—as well as shortcom- I quote ‘‘will provide increased support to the Canada Council’’. ings in marketing, and distribution problems. Telefilm Canada has Now that is really playing with words to mislead us in this area too. its work cut out for it. Here as elsewhere, the government will probably be content to give back some of the funding it cut in the past. There will have to be a If the government truly wants to reflect social and linguistic number of years of Liberal generosity before the Canada Council diversity, it should stop censoring artistic projects that deal with the returns to the level of funding it enjoyed before the Liberals came history or culture of Quebec, as it did with Pierre Falardeau’s plans to power. As Liberal spending power is legendary, the government for a film about the life of the Patriot Delorimier, entitled Le 15 will announce straight faced and glowing with pride the ever février 1839. increasing budget of the Canada Council.
The most vital criterion should be script quality. The decision Regarding the information highway, the government talks of the making process ought to be free of any conflict of interest or urgency of making Canada ‘‘the most connected nation in the political partisanship, which was not the case with Mr. Falardeau’s world’’. We have seen how that could help in consultations on production, as we now have all the evidence we need to prove. certain declarations, because a number of provinces are contem- plating using the connection from Industry Canada. Being ‘‘con- nected’’ is a praiseworthy objective. However, the Speech from the The government is boasting about the quality of our books, yet it Throne makes no mention of the promise of the second red book to refused to listen to our suggestions when the Bloc Quebecois came create a $15 million multimedia fund and fails to act on the to the defence of the publishing industry. If the government still recommendation of the advisory committee on the information does nothing in this area, fewer and fewer books with Canadian highway that a $50 million, and not $15 million, fund be set up. content will be published, because our entire industry will have Will the Minister of Industry be the only one overseeing Canada’s been sold out to the Americans. In this area, the anglophone culture information highway, disregarding its cultural and education sides? is more vulnerable than the francophone. This is another subject to follow.
D (1730) We read in the speech that ‘‘A connected nation is more than wires, cables and computers’’. What a discovery. ‘‘It is a nation in The government must react to the World Trade Organization which citizens have access to the skills and knowledge they need’’. decision on split runs of American periodicals. The Minister of We agree. This is why the Bloc Quebecois has insisted for nearly Heritage had, moreover, made a commitment to present a plan in four years now on the need to develop francophone content for the support of the magazine publishing industry as soon as Parliament information highway. reconvened. Is she going to stick to that campaign promise, or will she be forced to resign a second time? Watch for the next D instalment. (1735)
The Minister of Heritage will need to find ways of supporting the There are gaping holes in this speech. In their first red book, the periodicals and scientific and cultural periodicals which are being Liberals were committed to stable multi-year financing for the seriously threatened by the reduced postal subsidy and the changes CBC. Every budget in the past four years has broken this promise, in its rules. I must point out that, in this area, there is a particular and the corporation has had to absorb $350 million in cuts. Should threat to specialized French language periodicals, given their we be alarmed by the fact that the speech does not mention the limited market. CBC? When it was promised stable financing, it actually got cuts. This time, it is not even mentioned. Does this mean that its financing will be maintained, cut, or that it will again benefit from In the Speech from the Throne, there is also a reference to the government’s largesse? On this, we will have to wait and see. videos. If the government really wants to develop this industry and encourage creativity, it must immediate review the Copyright Act, for the audiovisual sector was excluded from the recent revision of Is the government finally going to give equal treatment to the that legislation. A guarantee of receiving the revenues generated by French and the English networks? At present, one hour of program- their work would be the best way to stimulate creators and ming costs on average $37,500 on the English network and $18,390 craftspeople in this area of cultural activity. on the French network. The government should stop treating 253
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The Address francophones as second class citizens, and set up two autonomous D (1740) corporations with equivalent budgets based on the same cost per hour of programming. We must remember that the money we receive is our own money. It comes from our taxes. The federal government does not have a Hon. Pierre S. Pettigrew: Per hour of programming? penny. It gets its money from the Canadian taxpayers and does not own it, although it may think it does. The federal government can start spending once again only because it keeps on cutting social Mrs. Suzanne Tremblay: Yes, sir. programs and transfers to provinces and because it diverts the unemployment insurance fund from its intended purpose. The money belongs to us and not to the government. It wants to use it to Before the last federal election, the health minister promised serve its own interests and improve its visibility, not to ensure our amendments to the tobacco control bill to allow sponsorship of development. sporting events. Since there is no mention of this in the throne speech, are we to understand that the government has already forgotten its promise? What will happen to cultural events in The Bloc Quebecois will never stop calling for the federal danger of losing their sponsors as a result of this bill? At issue is government to stop useless and unwarranted spending for propa- the potential loss of some $30 million in economic benefits these ganda purposes. You will be surprised when we reveal these major cultural and sporting events generate in Quebec, mainly in figures. The sums are really huge. The amounts recovered in these Montreal. Is the Liberal government once again going to abandon ways should be spent on cultural activities and on promoting the cultural sector? freedom of artistic expression.
One of the few promising aspects of this speech is the federalist I can tell you right away that the Canadian heritage minister will propaganda campaign. We are told they are going to rev it up as we soon cheer when she learns that her government has raised her approach the new millennium. budget by 3 percent. Beware. Take a good look at Statistics Canada’s figures. You will see, in black and white, that the increase went to operating expenditures and capital expenditures and that it After announcing that it will cut health, education and social was used for severance packages given to employees laid off by the assistance programs by another $42 billion by the year 2001, the department and its agencies and not for the promotion of cultural government introduces new programs in areas of provincial juris- endeavour. diction so that it can mail directly to Canadians cheques embla- zoned with a nice red maple leaf. The government is not interested in how useful or effective these programs will be. What matters to In fact, transfers to artists and cultural organizations have the government is to be visible with its flag. dropped by more than 5 percent. The only new expenditures will be similar to those made by Heritage Canada over the past 15 months for billboards and flags. It must be noted that on July 1, the government did not hesitate to take down our flag from our Parliament to replace it with the In concluding, the strategies contained in the Speech from the Queen’s standard to show how dominated we are. Throne are basically aimed at restoring the tarnished reputation of this federal government and giving it a semblance of relevance. Where does this idea of visibility over effectiveness come from? This the government intends to do by using money cut from Again it comes from Pierre Elliott Trudeau, who wrote in a 1967 transfers to the provinces for health, education and welfare and book entitled Federalism and the French Canadians, and I quote: money saved at the expense of ordinary citizens: the unemployed, ‘‘One way of offsetting the appeal of separatism is by investing workers, seasonal workers, the sick, students and welfare recipi- tremendous amounts of time, energy and money in nationalism, at ents. the federal level. A national image must be created that will have such an appeal as to make any image of a separatist group Instead of concentrating on rebuilding what it had destroyed, the unattractive’’. federal government has embarked on new intrusions in areas under provincial jurisdiction. It is triumphant, carefully disguising the fact that we can expect at least $42 billion more in cuts between The Liberals are obviously inspired by this ideology. Contrary to now and the year 2001. what we heard in previous throne speeches, there is no question of working with the provinces to improve the federation. Now the only thing that matters to the government is to create an image, an Concealment is definitely the name of the game for this govern- illusion. While people are getting poorer and poorer and while the ment. However, Quebecers are nobody’s fool. When the time government refuses to recognize Quebec’s identity, it will create comes for them to determine their future, they will realize there is the illusion of wealth and the illusion of the acceptation of Quebec no risk involved in having one own’s country and being sovereign, by the outstretched hand that actually just wants to crush us and in exchanging the maple leaf for a fleur de lys, since all the money bring us down to our knees. will stay in Quebec and be used to meet their own needs. 254
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The Address [English] Mrs. Suzanne Tremblay: Mr. Speaker, would you ask the minister to be quiet? He is carrying on. Mr. Dan McTeague (Pickering—Ajax—Uxbridge, Lib.): Thank you, Mr. Speaker, for recognizing me. I am pleased to have a I think this is an important point. We never claimed to be the new riding. I want also to begin by complimenting you on your only ones who speak French in Canada. I never said such a thing. elevation to that very wonderful post. I hope that we are able to see many more of these emotional discussions. We have followed with interest the situation in Ontario. We have seen what happened with Montfort Hospital. We have seen Mrs. [Translation] Lalonde resign from her position as chair of S.O.S. Montfort. Why? Because the City of Vanier voted in favour of partition. Especially from the hon. member for the new riding of Rimouski— Realizing what they had done after Mrs. Lalonde’s resignation, Mitis. they said: ‘‘Oops, this might have been a mistake after all; we will reconsider’’. Instead of ranting and raving for the benefit of the cameras, instead of turning this into a public circus and saying things like the So they reconsidered their position and decided it was such a federal government is destroying something it has built, perhaps mistake to support partition that now Vanier would almost go as far the hon. member would entertain a constructive suggestion. How as to support Quebec’s sovereignty. You know, the hon. member about starting on a policy, a movement for the purpose of building a opposite is in no position to criticize us. He used to be the member good country, a country like Canada, the best country in the world for Ontario; that was easy enough to remember, but I forget what to live in. his new riding is called.
I was interested in the hon. member’s comments to the effect that An hon. member: Pickering—Ajax—Uxbridge. she was very worried about cultural problems. We all know that people who work in the cultural industries, especially in certain Mrs. Suzanne Tremblay: There is ‘‘Ajax’’ in there and, to me, provinces, have a political agenda. I am not particularly interested that is stuff used to clean the sink. in all that. My interest extends to the work I did in committee last year. The hon. member was on the same committee. Some hon. members: Ha, ha.
D (1745) Mrs. Suzanne Tremblay: That is the kind of trick I will use to remember the name of his riding in future. There was $600 million from the cable operators’ production fund. We were able to discuss how to use that money, and distribute Naturally, we all have our own personality. I for one am a it to people working in cultural industries. passionate person. He should watch the program on the French network of the CBC this evening, at 7.30 p.m. He would get to I find it quite depressing, today, when some talk of not support- know me better because tonight is about who I am really, behind ing francophones while others speak of preserving their culture in the image. This is an invitation. However, he will realize that I am a other provinces, to hear the position taken by members of the Bloc passionate person, and I am not about to set this aspect of my Quebecois, including the member who has just spoken. Such a personality aside just because it does not please the Liberals. If position goes totally against the interests of francophones in there is something I intend to do, it is to show passion in this Ontario, it is totally divisive, it divides the country and makes House. things even more difficult for people like me who fight for the preservation of their language outside Quebec. Mr. Eugène Bellemare (Carleton—Gloucester, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I would like to comment on the speech by the hon. You are not the only ones who speak French. I find your position member for Rimouski—Mitis. First, I must congratulate her for a interesting, though it does constitute a shift. I find not only very passionate and good speech, in which she defends culture. depressing but sad that they do not realize the harm they are doing to others, outside Quebec, who do not share their interests. The hon. member has always been known to defend culture and I congratulate her for doing so. However, in her enthusiasm, she is I would like the member to respond to that, if she can. wearing blinkers and is too focused on herself, on what she calls the people of Quebec. When she talks about the two founding Mrs. Suzanne Tremblay: The hon. member opposite has some nations, she talks about Quebec. She forgets the francophones from nerve, Mr. Speaker. Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, Ontario, Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Alberta, British Columbia and even Yukon. First, I suggest he reread my speech over at leisure. He will realize, after reading his own remarks, that he did not understand D (1750) what I said. I have never said that we were the only francophones— When the hon. member refers to us, francophones from outside Hon. Pierre S. Pettigrew: Don’t be arrogant. Quebec, it is always in a negative way and I deplore that. I do not 255
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The Address think she does it out of malice but, rather, out of separatist idealism Let me also say that I am sharing my time with the hon. member to try to make a point. She should instead encourage francophones for St. Catharines. outside Quebec and show what is happening among French Cana- dians. I am very pleased to participate in this debate. There is no question the Speech from the Throne we heard this past Tuesday The hon. member talked about Quebec’s culture. There is a speaks for itself. Nonetheless we are here, opposition members French Canadian culture. There are many cultivated people in from one point of view and government members from another, to Quebec. There is a thriving culture, but francophones living outside debate the merits or demerits of the throne speech. Quebec also contribute to that culture. The fact I am here as the member for Algoma—Manitoulin is due to the voters of my riding who expressed their support in me. I When she talks about the francophonie, I wish the member for appreciate that. We all had supporters among our volunteers and Rimouski—Mitis would include francophones outside Quebec as our loved ones. On behalf of all of us may I thank many people well as those in Quebec in Canada’s French-speaking community. across the country who participated in the political process, in the Together, we can make Canada an even better place, with a strong, democratic process. They are helping to make this country the thriving Quebec in an even greater country and in a world in which greatest country in the world with a parliament that at times seems we can be proud of our dynamic culture, since the hon. member is to be raucous and noisy but a parliament that works, a parliament in always raising the issue of culture. Perhaps I should commend her which we can all have confidence. for her interest in this matter.
D (1755) Mrs. Suzanne Tremblay: Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his kind words, of course. I am flattered. I never cease to be in awe of this place even though this is my second term. I say to first time members of the House that they can First of all, in my speech, which I also invite this member to make of this job what their efforts produce. If they serve their read, I never excluded francophones outside Quebec. I asked constituents and their country well, they will feel the reward of whether there would be an information highway for francophones. knowing that the country is bit by bit moving positively into the I did not specify that it would be for Quebec alone and that it would next millennium. not go outside our province. The information highway covers quite a distance. I would have a lot of trouble stopping it at the Quebec It is appropriate that a Liberal government will lead the country border. I spoke about an information highway for francophones, into the next millennium. Our Prime Minister is the right person to meaning all francophones in Canada. lead the government into the next thousand years.
I have no objection to there being a French Canadian people. But The throne speech has shown in many ways the caring and I am no longer part of that group. When I was growing up, I was nurturing side of government. Too often our citizens are cynical taught in school that I was a French Canadian. Later on, I was told about government at all levels and the processes which seem to that I was a Quebecer and I like that better. But I will not be faulted take place behind closed doors and in faraway places. We demon- for preferring to be a Quebecer to being a French Canadian. As a strated in the last Parliament—and we will show it again—that this French Canadian, I am a second class citizen. As a Quebecer, I am a is an open, transparent government, a government that will listen to first class citizen. That is the difference. I have no objection to their the people and will make decisions, often tough decisions, that are being French Canadians, but why are we given less money to needed to continue keeping the country the best country in the produce television programs? world.
Mr. Eugène Bellemare: Mr. Speaker, I am referring to the I will quote one sentence from the Prime Minister’s speech of Canadian Constitution. French Canadians are not second class yesterday which sums up for me the theme of my remarks. He said citizens, as the member has just said. ‘‘Canada will remain the best country to live in because it cares about people’’. [English] In my time around here as the member of Parliament for Algoma—Manitoulin I have learned that ultimately voters want to The Acting Speaker (Mr. McClelland): With the greatest of know their governments and representatives care about them and respect, as the hon. member knows that is most likely a point of their communities. The less we express and show that, the more debate. distant they feel.
Mr. Brent St. Denis (Algoma—Manitoulin, Lib.): Mr. Speak- My riding in northern Ontario stretches from Manitouwadge in er, first let me offer my congratulations to you on your new office. the northwest to Chapleau in the northeast and south to the north We are all confident you will do a great job. shore of Lake Huron including Manitoulin Island. Whether we 256
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The Address represent a downtown city core or urban riding or a large rural If, for some reason, they get off on the wrong foot we are there to riding, we are representing Canadians. They are Canadians who all make sure they have a second and a third chance if necessary. feel the same way about their country. We are also looking out for those in our society who find themselves in the middle ages, sometimes victims of structural The throne speech expresses the caring nature of the govern- change. With changing societies and economies, we will see jobs ment. We can find no greater evidence than in the words of the lost here and jobs created somewhere else. That is the nature of our throne speech. modern society. We have the sadness which comes with losing a job maybe at the age of 40 or 50 years of age. Many of my Let us start with the issue of the economy. In the last Parliament constituents have faced that challenge, particularly in Elliot Lake. a tremendous challenge was facing us with the deficit at record It is incumbent on us to continue to assist people caught in this way levels. Let us imagine newspaper headlines screaming aloud that with retraining or appropriate early retirement programs. the government has brought our country into the black. Over the next year and a half, if not sooner, we will be in a surplus position. For the final age category, that being our elderly, what more can What greater thing can we do for preserving our health care a government do but to make sure that the pension systems are programs, our pension programs, programs for youth and so on, secure and that seniors do not have to worry about the future. than by ensuring our economy is strong and vibrant based on a set of books we can all be proud of whether a member of the I heard from the seniors. They were worried about the future. opposition or not. When they understood through our campaign that we were com- mitted to securing the Canada pension plan for the future and that we were developing the seniors benefit plan, they knew that the That essence of caring has given Canadians for the first time in a government would be watching out for them. long time a real sense of hope, optimism and confidence about the future. We are certainly not there yet when it comes to solving all the problems of the country. There will always be challenges and This does not say that some people don’t get lost in the cracks. It problems to face. It has been a long time since this country has is incumbent on the government to close those cracks, to make sure been at such a tremendous juncture in its history. In fact there is so that nobody is left behind. It is an absolute feature of a caring much confidence as we approach the next millennium that the government that no one gets left behind. Prime Minister in the throne speech announced that we are going to have a tremendous millennium party in two and a half years, a Mr. Speaker, again I wish you the very best in your new office party which I believe the world will come to because people around over this next Parliament. I wish the best for all my colleagues as the world know that we have a country that cares about people. we look forward to an exciting and vigorous Parliament over this next few years.
D (1800) Mrs. Elsie Wayne (Saint John, PC): Mr. Speaker, the hon. member for Algoma referred to the strong voice of the government that is there for the people. That strong voice just was not there. It Even though we hear complaints from different parts of the was a silent voice for the people in Atlantic Canada in the last country it is only because people know that the government will Parliament. listen when they speak and cry out for help. They know we will respond. Atlantic Canada has 8 percent of the population and it was taking 27 percent of all the cuts. A caring government must look at the first and most important group in our society, our children. We have recognized that D (1805 ) children must get a good start in life, be it through proper nutrition or through proper education. We have made tremendous strides, in I have a shipyard, the most modern shipyard there is in Canada, co-operation with all the provinces, in developing a national child in Saint John, New Brunswick. Four thousand men used to work benefit system. It is not completed yet but I believe it will evolve there. None are working there now. I used to have all of my into a model for the world. electricians working in the province of New Brunswick. Seventy- six percent of them are now gone. Seventy-six percent of them are When it comes to the young people of our society, people who not working. They have gone illegally to the U.S.A. to work so they we worry a lot about because of their concerns of future employ- can feed their families. ment, this government in the last Parliament, and even more this Parliament, stands ready to make sure that in co-operation with the The government is selling off all the housing of CMHC. Do you provinces through an enhanced scholarship program, through know who lives in CMHC housing? All the low and middle income initiatives with industry it can make sure that they have a chance at people live in those houses. When you privatize it, the rent doubles that first job, at starting life on the right foot. and triples and the people are out on the street. 257
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The Address I do not believe that the government understands what it has shall be left behind’’. Now that was very interesting. In fact I think done. It is time for it to stop and take a look. The member talks ‘‘no one is left behind’’ were the exact words he used. That is very about a crack. What is in the throne speech is a crack the size interesting because the moment he finished his speech, the hon. of the Grand Canyon. I appeal to the government to please tell member for Saint John had to point out to him that there are people us what it is going to do for the people who are hurting like never who are already being left behind. before. I do not want to hear about governments in the past who did this or that. I would like to ask the member for Algoma—Manitoulin what he considers to be accountability and what he considers being left All I know is that when I was mayor our people worked and we behind. I draw his attention to the the allocation or awarding by the had a low unemployment rate. I had 4,000 people working at my Minister of Industry of TPC grants. It is is clearly the spoken shipyard, some as plumbers, some as electricians. It was beautiful. intention of the Minister of Industry to say very clearly that these However, right now it is a total disaster. grants are to be in support of and to develop small industry in Canada. What do we discover? Until this point as of August 31, Please tell me what you are going to do for our people? 1997, 75 percent of all of those moneys were not given to small industry but to large industries in aerospace and defence; 75 The Acting Speaker (Mr. McClelland): I would remind hon. percent on industries that are wealthy, industries with a profit, yet members to please address each other through the Chair. the small businessman could not get in. Does he call that account- ability? Does he call that being left behind? What is he talking about? Mr. Brent St. Denis: Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the remarks of the hon. member for Saint John. Mr. Brent St. Denis: Mr. Speaker, I appreciate what I think was I admire the member for Saint John. She was very effective in a question from the member for Kelowna. the last Parliament and I expect that she will be in this Parliament. However, I believe she is missing the point. If he can check the blues, I believe he will appreciate my clarification on the people in our society who are being left behind. In the last Parliament the government had to make some tough None of us in the House wants anyone to be left behind. decisions. You can care about the people and still make tough decisions knowing that what you are doing will be better for all the regions of the country. I believe I said that this government in the last Parliament and again in this Parliament will take steps to ensure that as much as possible no one is left behind. It is a sad fact in the real world of life In my home town of Elliot Lake, starting in 1990 we experienced that some people for one reason or another find themselves lagging a job loss of some 5,000 in the uranium mining industry. There was behind the bulk of society and it is necessary for society at large to a lot of adjustment, but in the long run the changes which took reach back and make sure that no one is left behind. But sadly we place have shown that Elliot Lake and that region will survive and do not live in a perfect world. I doubt that we will ever live in a do very well. perfect world, but we can all work together to make it a better world and a better country. I know that the spirit of the citizens of the Atlantic provinces is very much the same. They will respond to change and they will deal with the challenges that face them in a very creative way. I I know that opposition members of all parties will work with us have every confidence in the citizens of Saint John and the other to make Canada a better and better place in which to live where no ridings of the Atlantic provinces. They will take up the flag and one will be left behind. That is not a fantasy nor is it a dream. It is a march into the next millennium with all of us. All of our regions very high goal that will take a lot of effort and time to achieve. will be better off with the changes and improvements that we have made in the governance of this country. I believe the programs that we have and will put in place will provide our citizens with the very best possibility to achieve their Mr. Werner Schmidt (Kelowna, Ref.): Mr. Speaker, I would own individual successes in life. Take for example the scholarship like to congratulate you. You occupy the chair so well. Not only do fund that the Prime Minister referred to yesterday in his speech, the you look well, you act well, you speak well and you have such a details of which will no doubt come out over the days and weeks passion for the House. ahead. It is a scholarship fund designed specifically for post-secon- dary aspirants who find themselves in low and modest income family situations. That among many initiatives is an indication of D (1810 ) the government’s commitment to those who might otherwise be left behind. While he might want to say that I said we were there, I would like to refer to the speech we have just heard from the he knows full well it is an objective that will be best achieved hon. member for Algoma—Manitoulin. He used little phrases in through the efforts of this government no doubt with the co-opera- his comment that really caught my attention. He said ‘‘and no one tion of the opposition parties. 258
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The Address
D (1815) Benoit Bernier (Tobique—Mactaquac) Bertrand Bevilacqua [Translation] Blaikie Blondin-Andrew Bonin Bonwick Borotsik Boudria The Speaker: It is now 6.15 p.m. and we are out of time. Bradshaw Breitkreuz (Yorkton—Melville) Perhaps we can come back to this next time. Brison Brown Bryden Bulte It being 6.15 p.m., it is my duty to interrupt the proceedings and Byrne Cadman Calder Cannis put forthwith all questions necessary to dispose of the motion now Caplan Carroll before the House. Casey Casson Catterall Cauchon [English] Chamberlain Chan Charbonneau Charest The question is on the subamendment. Is it the pleasure of the Chrétien (Saint-Maurice) Clouthier Coderre Cohen House to adopt the subamendment? Collenette Comuzzi Copps Cullen Some hon. members: Agreed. Cummins Desjarlais DeVillers Dhaliwal Some hon. members: No. Dion Discepola Dockrill Drouin The Speaker: All those in favour of the subamendment will Dubé (Madawaska—Restigouche) Duhamel Duncan Earle please say yea. Easter Eggleton Elley Epp Some hon. members: Yea. Finlay Folco Fontana Forseth The Speaker: All those opposed will please say nay. Fry Gagliano Gallaway Godfrey Some hon. members: Nay. Godin (Acadie—Bathurst) Goldring Goodale Graham Gray (Windsor West) Grewal The Speaker: In my opinion the nays have it. Grey (Edmonton North) Grose Guarnieri Hanger And more than five members having risen: Harb Hart Harvard Harvey The Speaker: Call in the members. Herron Hill (Macleod) Hill (Prince George—Peace River) Hoeppner D (1845 ) Hubbard Ianno Iftody Jackson Jaffer Jennings (The House divided on the amendment to the amendment, which Johnston Jones was negatived on the following division:) Jordan Karetak-Lindell Karygiannis Keddy (South Shore) (Division No. 1) Kenney (Calgary-Sud-Est) Kerpan Keyes Kilger (Stormont—Dundas) Kilgour (Edmonton Southeast) Knutson YEAS Konrad Kraft Sloan Members Laliberte Lastewka Lavigne Lee Alarie Asselin Leung Lill Bachand (Saint-Jean) Bellehumeur Bergeron Bernier (Bonaventure— Lincoln Longfield Gaspé)—(Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Pabok) Bigras Lowther Lunn Brien Canuel MacAulay MacKay (Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough) Crête de Savoye Mahoney Malhi Desrochers Dubé (Lévis) Maloney Mancini Duceppe Dumas Manley Manning Fournier Gagnon Marchi Mark Gauthier Girard-Bujold Marleau Martin (LaSalle—Émard) Godin (Châteauguay) Guay Loubier Marceau Massé Matthews Ménard Mercier Mayfield McCormick Perron Picard (Drummond) McDonough McGuire Plamondon Sauvageau McKay (Scarborough East) McLellan (Edmonton West) St-Hilaire Tremblay (Lac-Saint-Jean) McNally McTeague Tremblay (Rimouski—Mitis) Turp—33 McWhinney Meredith Mifflin Mills (Broadview—Greenwood) Mills (Red Deer) Mitchell NAYS Morrison Muise Murray Myers Members Nault Normand Abbott Adams Nystrom Obhrai Alcock Anders O’Brien (Labrador) O’Brien (London—Fanshawe) Anderson Assad O’Reilly Pagtakhan Assadourian Augustine Pankiw Paradis Bachand (Richmond—Arthabaska) Bailey Baker Bakopanos Parrish Patry Barnes Beaumier Penson Peric Bélair Bélanger Peterson Pettigrew Bellemare Bennett Pickard (Kent—Essex) Pillitteri 259
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The Address Pratt Price PAIRED MEMBERS Proctor Proud Provenzano Ramsay Redman Reed Reynolds Richardson Axworthy (Winnipeg South Centre) Caccia Ritz Robillard Dalphond-Guiral Debien Rock Saada Dromisky Finestone Schmidt Scott (Fredericton) Lalonde Laurin Serré Shepherd Lebel Lefebvre Solberg Solomon Minna Phinney St. Denis Stewart (Brant) Rocheleau Speller Stewart (Northumberland) Stinson Steckle Venne St-Jacques St-Julien Stoffer Strahl Szabo Telegdi The Speaker: I declare the subamendment defeated. Thibeault Thompson (Charlotte) Torsney Ur Valeri Vanclief It being 6.47 p.m. this House stands adjourned until tomorrow at Vautour Wappel 10 a.m., pursuant to Standing Order 24(1). Wasylycia-Leis Wayne Whelan White (Langley—Abbotsford) Wilfert Wood —222 (The House adjourned at 6.47 p.m.) 260 261 262
CONTENTS
Thursday, September 25, 1997
ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS Indian Point Mr. Stinson ...... 59 Order in Council Appointments Criminal Code Mr. Adams ...... 57 Mr. Jackson...... 59 Canada Elections Act Gasoline Tax Mr. Adams...... 57 Mr. Bellemare ...... 59 Impaired Driving Canada Pension Plan Investment Board Act Mr. Bellemare...... 59 Bill C–2. Introduction and first reading ...... 57 The Family Mr. Peterson ...... 57 Mr. Morrison ...... 59 (Motions deemed adopted, bill read the first time and Mr. Morrison ...... 60 printed) ...... 57 Questions on the Order Paper DNA Identification Act Mr. Adams...... 60 Bill C–3. Introduction and first reading ...... 57 Mr. Scott (Fredericton) ...... 57 Request for Emergency Debate (Motions deemed adopted, bill read the first time and Multilateral Agreement on Investment printed) ...... 57 Mr. Blaikie ...... 60 Mr. Scott (Fredericton) ...... 57 Speaker’s Ruling The Deputy Speaker ...... 60 Canadian Wheat Board Act Bill C–4. Introduction and first reading ...... 57 GOVERNMENT ORDERS Mr. Manley ...... 57 (Motions deemed adopted, bill read the first time and Speech from the Throne printed) ...... 57 Resumption of debate on Address in Reply Mr. Marchi ...... 60 Canada Cooperatives Act Mr. Penson ...... 63 Bill C–5. Introduction and first reading ...... 57 Mr. Marchi ...... 63 Mr. Manley ...... 57 Mr. Blaikie ...... 64 (Motions deemed adopted, bill read the first time and Mr. Solberg ...... 64 printed) ...... 57 Mr. DeVillers ...... 67 Parliament of Canada Act Mr. Solberg ...... 68 Bill C–201. Introduction and first reading ...... 57 Mr. Riis ...... 68 Mr. Bellemare ...... 57 Mr. Solberg ...... 68 (Motions deemed adopted, bill read the first time and Mrs. Wayne ...... 69 printed.) ...... 58 Mr. Solberg ...... 69 Canada Health Act Mr. Clouthier ...... 69 Mr. Lebel ...... 70 Bill C–202. Introduction and first reading ...... 58 Mr. Clouthier ...... 71 Mr. Patry ...... 58 (Motions deemed adopted, bill read the first time and Mr. Jordan ...... 71 printed.) ...... 58 Mr. Stoffer ...... 73 Mr. Jordan ...... 73 Agreement on Internal Trade Implementation Act Ms. Caplan ...... 73 Bill C–203. Introduction and first reading ...... 58 Mr. Mercier ...... 73 Mr. Benoit ...... 58 Mr. Jordan ...... 73 (Motions deemed adopted, bill read the first time and Mr. Loubier ...... 74 printed) ...... 58 Mr. Bonwick ...... 77 Cultural Grants Acknowledgement Act Mr. Loubier ...... 77 Bill C–204. Introduction and first reading ...... 58 Mr. Mills (Broadview—Greenwood) ...... 77 Mr. Abbott ...... 58 Mr. Loubier ...... 77 (Motions deemed adopted, bill read the first time and Mr. Riis ...... 78 printed) ...... 58 Mr. Loubier ...... 78 Mrs. Karetak–Lindell ...... 78 User Fee Act Mrs. Wayne ...... 80 Bill C–205. Introduction and first reading ...... 59 Mr. St–Julien ...... 80 Mr. Solberg ...... 59 Mr. Harris ...... 80 (Motions deemed adopted, bill read the first time and Mrs. Karetak–Lindell ...... 81 printed)...... 59 Mr. Penson ...... 81 Petitions Mrs. Karetak–Lindell ...... 81 The Senate Mr. Bonwick ...... 81 Mr. Mayfield ...... 59 Mr. Chrétien (Frontenac—Mégantic) ...... 82 263
Mr. Bonwick ...... 83 ORAL QUESTION PERIOD Mr. Riis ...... 83 The Debt Mr. Cannis ...... 85 Mr. Manning ...... 95 Mr. Riis ...... 85 Mr. Chrétien (Saint–Maurice) ...... 96 Mr. Harris ...... 85 Mr. Manning ...... 96 Mr. Thompson (Charlotte) ...... 86 Mr. Chrétien (Saint–Maurice) ...... 96 Mr. Riis ...... 86 Mr. Manning ...... 96 Ms. Wasylycia–Leis ...... 86 Mr. Chrétien (Saint–Maurice) ...... 96 Mr. Mills (Broadview—Greenwood) ...... 87 Mr. Solberg ...... 96 ...... Ms. Wasylycia–Leis 87 Mr. Martin (LaSalle—Émard) ...... 96 Mr. Mills (Broadview—Greenwood) ...... 88 Mr. Solberg ...... 96 Mr. Mahoney ...... 88 Mr. Martin (LaSalle—Émard) ...... 96 Mr. de Savoye ...... 89 Calgary Declaration Mr. Harris ...... 89 Mr. Duceppe ...... 97 Mr. de Savoye ...... 89 Mr. Chrétien (Saint–Maurice) ...... 97 Mr. Mahoney ...... 90 Mr. Duceppe ...... 97 Mr. Myers ...... 90 Mr. Chrétien (Saint–Maurice) ...... 97 Mr. Harris ...... 91 Mr. Brien ...... 97 Mr. Myers ...... 91 Mr. Chrétien (Saint–Maurice) ...... 97 Mr. Chrétien (Frontenac—Mégantic) ...... 92 Mr. Brien ...... 97 Mr. Myers ...... 92 Mr. Brien ...... 97 Mr. Thompson (Charlotte) ...... 92 Mr. Dion ...... 98
STATEMENTS BY MEMBERS Fisheries Ms. McDonough ...... 98 Royal Canadian Legion Mr. Anderson ...... 98 Mr. Pickard ...... 92 Ms. McDonough ...... 98 Mr. Anderson ...... 98 Fisheries Mr. Duncan...... 92 Trade Mr. Charest ...... 98 Arts and Culture Mr. Chrétien (Saint–Maurice) ...... 98 Mr. Myers ...... 92 Mr. Charest ...... 99 Mr. Chrétien (Saint–Maurice) ...... 99 Centre des femmes de Laval Mrs. Debien ...... 93 Canada Post Mr. Gouk ...... 99 Royal Victoria Hospital Mr. MacAulay ...... 99 Ms. Carroll ...... 93 Mr. Gouk ...... 99 Dr. Tom Bolton Mr. MacAulay ...... 99 Mr. Wilfert ...... 93 Calgary Declaration Mr. Gauthier ...... 99 Prostate Cancer Mr. Dion ...... 99 Mr. White (North Vancouver) ...... 93 Mr. Gauthier ...... 99 Cape Project Mr. Dion ...... 99 Mr. Charbonneau...... 94 Canada Pension Plan World Maritime Week Mrs. Ablonczy ...... 99 Mr. Dubé (Lévis) ...... 94 Mr. Martin (LaSalle—Émard) ...... 99 Mrs. Ablonczy ...... 100 Throne Speech Mr. Martin (LaSalle—Émard) ...... 100 Ms. Folco ...... 94 Calgary Declaration Vancouver Kingsway Mrs. Tremblay ...... 100 Ms. Leung...... 94 Mr. Dion ...... 100 Mr. Duceppe ...... 100 British Columbia Mr. Bellehumeur ...... 100 Mr. Strahl ...... 94 Mr. Dion ...... 100 The Late Dudley George Mr. Dion ...... 100 Mr. Earle ...... 95 Mrs. Tremblay ...... 100 Mr. Dion ...... 100 Osteoporosis Mr. Dion ...... 100 Mr. Assadourian...... 95 Immigration Income Taxes Mr. Reynolds...... 100 Mr. Jones ...... 95 Mrs. Robillard ...... 101 264
Mr. Reynolds ...... 101 Ms. St–Jacques ...... 108 Mrs. Robillard ...... 101 Mr. Cannis ...... 110 Ms. St–Jacques ...... 110 Canada Post Corporation Mr. Godin (Châteauguay) ...... 110 Ms. Bujold Girard ...... 101 Ms. St–Jacques ...... 110 Mr. Gagliano ...... 101 Mr. DeVillers ...... 110 Public Works and Government Services Mr. Brison ...... 112 Mr. Bélanger ...... 101 Mr. DeVillers ...... 112 Mr. Gagliano ...... 101 Mr. Dubé (Lévis) ...... 112 Justice Mr. DeVillers ...... 113 Mr. Ramsay ...... 101 Ms. Cohen ...... 113 Ms. McLellan ...... 101 Mr. Mancini ...... 114 Mr. Ramsay ...... 102 Ms. Cohen ...... 114 Ms. McLellan ...... 102 Mr. Fournier ...... 114 Ms. Cohen ...... 114 Employment Insurance Mr. Mayfield ...... 115 Mr. Godin (Acadie—Bathurst) ...... 102 Ms. Cohen ...... 115 Mr. Pettigrew ...... 102 Mr. Harris ...... 115 Mr. Godin (Acadie—Bathurst) ...... 102 Mr. Comuzzi ...... 116 Mr. Pettigrew ...... 102 Mr. Harris ...... 117 Speech from the Throne Mr. Kenney ...... 117 Mr. Dubé (Madawaska—Restigouche) ...... 102 Mr. Alcock ...... 118 Mr. Martin (LaSalle—Émard) ...... 103 Mr. Kenney ...... 118 Mr. Dubé (Madawaska—Restigouche) ...... 103 Mr. Wilfert ...... 119 Mr. Pettigrew ...... 103 Mr. Kenney ...... 119 Mr. Mills (Broadview—Greenwood) ...... 119 International Trade Mr. Mills (Broadview—Greenwood) ...... 119 Ms. Brown...... 103 Mr. Kenney ...... 120 Mr. Marchi ...... 103 Ms. Redman ...... 120 Business of the House Mr. Morrison ...... 121 Mr. White (Langley—Abbotsford) ...... 103 Ms. Redman ...... 121 Mr. Boudria ...... 103 Mr. Fournier ...... 122 Points of Order Ms. Redman ...... 122 Comments during Question Period Mr. Bryden ...... 122 Mr. Charest ...... 103 Mr. Lunn ...... 123 The Speaker ...... 104 Mr. Bryden ...... 123 Mr. Charest ...... 104 Mr. Tremblay ...... 124 Mr. Bryden ...... 124 The Late Hon. Stanley Howard Knowles Mrs. Tremblay ...... 124 Mr. Blaikie ...... 104 Mr. Pettigrew ...... 126 Mr. Gray ...... 105 Mrs. Tremblay ...... 126 Mr. Manning ...... 105 Mr. McTeague ...... 127 Mr. Plamondon ...... 105 Mrs. Tremblay ...... 127 Mrs. Wayne ...... 106 Mr. Pettigrew ...... 127 Ms. Wasylycia–Leis ...... 106 Mrs. Tremblay ...... 127 Mr. Bellemare ...... 127 GOVERNMENT ORDERS Mrs. Tremblay ...... 128 Speech from the Throne Mr. Bellemare ...... 128 Resumption of debate on Address in Reply Mr. St. Denis ...... 128 Mr. Thompson (Charlotte) ...... 106 Mrs. Wayne ...... 129 Mr. Crête ...... 108 Mr. St. Denis ...... 130 Mr. Thompson (Charlotte) ...... 108 Mr. Schmidt ...... 130 Mr. Szabo ...... 108 Mr. St. Denis ...... 130 Mr. Thompson (Charlotte) ...... 108 Amendment to the amendment negatived ...... 132 265 MāāAāāIāāL PāOāSāTāE Canada Post Corporation/Société canadienne des postes Postage paid Port payé Lettermail Poste-lettre 8801320 Ottawa
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267
CONTENTS (Table of Contents appears at back of this issue.)
All parliamentary publications are available on the ``Parliamentary Internet Parlementaire'' at the following address: http://www.parl.gc.ca 268
5451
HOUSE OF COMMONS
Friday, March 27, 1998
The House met at 10 a.m. The main objective of this government is to build a competitive and innovative economy that will create even more jobs and more ______economic growth for Canadians. One of the ways to accomplish this objective is to work co-operatively at the grassroots level to Prayers ensure the views of stakeholders are incorporated at the early stages of discussions on policies surrounding new and emerging ______issues. We are committed to a policy of full consultation with both the GOVERNMENT ORDERS agri-food industry and the provinces. We endeavour to be respon- sive to the changing needs of the industry. Together we are working to develop strategies for achieving this goal. D (1005) This is particularly significant in light of our recently announced [English] rural impact test, a policy which commits federal departments and agencies to consider the impact on rural Canada when formulating CANADA GRAIN ACT their policies, their programs and their services. Hon. Hedy Fry (for the Minister of Agriculture and Agri- This policy is part of our government’s ongoing commitment to Food) moved that Bill C-26, an act to amend the Canada Grain Act build stronger rural communities by ensuring that federal policies and the Agriculture and Agri-Food Administrative Monetary Pen- and programs support community development. alties Act and to repeal the Grain Futures Act, be read the second time and referred to a committee. We believe that the bill before the House is another example of Mr. John Harvard (Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of our commitment to rural Canada. It will allow easier access to the Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to special crops processing industry and will therefore have a positive introduce at second reading Bill C-26 which would amend the impact on rural employment opportunities. Canada Grain Act and the Agriculture and Agri-Food Administra- The federal and provincial governments must also work together tive Monetary Penalties Act and repeal the Grain Futures Act. to avoid, wherever possible, overlap and duplication so that we can This initiative reflects our government’s willingness to meet the better serve Canadians. express needs of the grain industry. The industry has had to evolve in order to deal with many challenges. Legislation must also evolve Having placed this bill in the context of the government’s to ensure that industry’s efforts to meet these challenges are not priorities, I would now like to review the major aspects of this hindered by arcane government regulation. legislation. I will begin by placing this bill within the framework of our The provisions of this bill were developed and recommended by government’s priorities. Agriculture and agri-food is a key sector the Canadian Grain Commission, the organization responsible for of our economy that offers tremendous opportunities for Canadian administering both the Canadian Grain Act and the Grain Futures producers and processors. This industry is growing at an impres- Act. sive rate. Our exports continue to expand, as does the domestic market for our products. Under the Canada Grain Act the commission is responsible for regulating grain handling in Canada and for establishing and D (1010) maintaining standards of grain quality. Producers are generally optimistic about the future, investing in Under the Grain Futures Act the commission regulates grain and diversifying their operations in order to benefit from new futures trading in Canada by monitoring the activities and transac- opportunities. tions carried out at the Winnipeg Commodity Exchange. 269
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Government Orders I would be remiss if I did not acknowledge the valuable The special crops industry plays a significant role in the contribution that producers and other members of the grain indus- development of the rural economy of western Canada. The bulk of try have made to this bill. These amendments are the result of two the country’s special crops production comes from the three prairie separate sets of consultations throughout the industry. provinces.
I will outline this consultation process so that members can share Statistics Canada figures indicate that special crops production the confidence I have that this legislation represents the needs, the on the prairies increased by about 300% in the last 14 years. In expectations and the views of the majority of stakeholders from all 1984-85 production was approximately one million tonnes. In sectors of the grain industry. 1997-98 this figure has climbed to approximately three million tonnes. The special crops market continues to expand. Both large and small players are contributing to its impressive growth. In 1995 Bill C-51, an act to amend the Canada Grain Act, was being moved through this House. At that time there was consider- able interest on the part of members to deal with the concerns of the The special crops industry exports a considerable amount of special crops industry, especially those in the industry who wanted product. In 1996-97 the figure was 1.3 million tonnes. This to become licensed special crops dealers. Therefore, it is with great represents about 5% of total exports. pleasure that I talk to this bill today. The western Canadian special crops industry has become one of The grain industry categorizes crops either as standard crops or Canada’s export success stories. Naturally, domestic seed cleaning as special crops. The standard crops are wheat, barley, oats and plants are anxious to get into the business of buying and marketing. canola and these make up the bulk of agricultural production on the On the other hand, producers want to expand the number of outlets prairies. Special crops production on the prairies is considerably for their special crops. Moreover the entry of new players will less than standard crop production but includes a wide variety of stimulate innovation and the development of new markets. agricultural products. The Canada Grain Act amendments relating to special crops I would like to begin by outlining the consultation process involve three major elements: a voluntary producer insurance plan; concerning the proposed special crops amendments. The first affordable licensing for special crops dealers; and a special crops round of consultations was undertaken by a panel of producers. As advisory committee. The first element of the proposed legislation part of the special crops initiative funded by the commission, is the financial protection that will be available to producers under members met with a variety of producers and industry organiza- a voluntary insurance plan. If approved, the amendments will tions to assess their regulatory needs and to make recommenda- provide financial protection to producers who are prepared to pay tions to the commission. for it and will be simple to administer.
In November 1994 the Canadian Grain Commission circulated a I emphasize that the plan is voluntary. This was a key recom- discussion paper to individuals and companies involved in the mendation of the majority of producers consulted and their repre- special crops industry on the prairies. The commission met with sentative organizations. individual producers and their organizations, processors, grain dealers and representatives of elevator companies. The purpose of In consultation with a special crops advisory committee, the the discussions was to chart a new course for licensing and security Canadian Grain Commission will manage the producer funded in the special crops industry in western Canada. A consensus on insurance plan. Producers can choose whether or not to participate. licensing and security emerged from those consultations. Only those producers who are members of the producer insur- In March 1995 the commission released a report reflecting that ance plan will be eligible for compensation if a licensed company consensus. Following the release of the report, the commission they deal with fails to meet its payment obligations. Producers will provided support to an advisory committee consisting of producers be considered members of the plan and eligible for coverage unless and dealers representing the principal special crops organizations they notify the Canadian Grain Commission in writing that they as they developed the basis for this legislation. want to opt out. Producers who do not want to belong can opt out prior to the start of the crop year.
D (1015) All producers will pay a levy when they sell special crops to licensed dealers. The initial levy will be a small percentage of the Let me add for the benefit of members who represent ridings in value of grain delivered. It is expected that the initial levy will be eastern Canada that the special crops provision of the bill will 0.038% or 38 cents per $100 worth of grain. This works out to apply to crops named in the proposed legislation and grown in between 50 cents and $1 per acre depending on crop price and western Canada. Persons and companies dealing in eastern special yield. It may be adjusted up or down in accordance with the level of crops will not be affected by the legislation. losses and the costs of administration. Producers who have opted 270
March 27, 1998 COMMONS DEBATES 5453
Government Orders out of the plan will at the end of each crop year receive a full rebate provisions of the bill to evolve to the next level, to actually on the levies collected from them. become a grain dealer buying and selling special crops.
The plan has administrative benefits for companies. The dealer More special crops dealers would become licensed if they could takes a levy for each delivery, whether the producer is in the plan or satisfy the licensing requirements. Because they cannot, they are has opted out. For the industry this keeps paperwork to a minimum. constrained in expanding their operations. Furthermore they are not in a position to offer the full range of services demanded by producers and provided by their licensed competitors. Special crops dealers will remit levies to the Canadian Grain Commission, the agent for participating producers. After deducting Unfortunately there have been cases where dealers have ignored an administration fee, the commission will forward the premiums the legislation and bought grain without a licence. This places to an insurer. The Canadian Export Development Corporation has producers at significant risk of not being paid if the dealer defaults agreed to act as the insurer for the plan. The insurer and the agent on payments because no security has been provided to the Cana- can be changed in the future if the special crops advisory commit- dian Grain Commission. tee recommends it. I will talk about this committee in more detail shortly. For Canada to make further gains in the special crops market, a regulatory environment is required that allows companies, both D (1020) large and small, to participate. The proposed legislation before the House this morning would reduce entry barriers for special crops dealers by making licensing more affordable and making the Prospective licensees will have to demonstrate financial ability licensing requirements easier to satisfy. to receive a licence. This protects producers and ensures the viability of the insurance plan. It is expected that most producers If approved, it is expected that the new special crops provisions will participate. To encourage their participation, startup funding of will initially apply to the following special crops: beans, buck- $500,000 will be made available from the Government of Canada wheat, corn, fababeans, lentils, mustard seed, peas, safflower to assist in implementing this new program. The insurance plan seeds, soybeans, sunflower seed and triticale. This list could be will be self funded after initial startup. expanded or reduced if the special crops industry wants this to happen. The second element concerning proposed changes to the Canada Grain Act is affordable licensing for special crops dealers. The A special crops dealer will be defined as an elevator operator or handling of special crops is regulated under the Canada Grain Act grain dealer who buys only special crops from producers. which was initially designed to regulate the bulk handling of cereal grains. The licensing and security system in place however was not An amendment to the Canada Grain Act will create a class of designed to serve the unique needs of special crops dealers. licence called a special crops licence. This licence will give companies the right to use official grade names when buying and Under the current system, buyers and sellers of Canadian grain, selling special crops. including special crops, must be licensed by the Canadian Grain Commission. They must also provide security for producers by Individuals and companies that also buy and sell standard crops posting a bond or letter of credit. Security protects producers if such as wheat, barley and canola will continue to be licensed under licensed elevators or grain dealers default on their payment obliga- current provisions of the Canada Grain Act. They will not have to tions. obtain a special crops licence to buy and sell special crops but will have to collect levies from producers for a producer funded insurance plan. However, the security that companies currently Unfortunately for small companies in the special crops industry, post in the form of bonds and letters of credit to cover their the security that must be provided is expensive and depletes their liabilities to special crops producers will be reduced correspond- available credit restricting their ability to buy special crops. ingly. Security requirements are tough on small companies and prevent the special crops industry from developing. D (1025)
About 800 seed cleaning plants operate on the prairies. They are Finally, special crops dealers will not have to post security to currently exempt from licensing, provided they do not buy and sell cover payment obligations to special crops producers. This will grain. Only a few operators of seed cleaning plants are currently remove a major barrier to owners of small companies who want to licensed. participate in the special crops industry.
It is not uncommon in this growing industry for a seed cleaning The new program will encourage companies currently operating plant to act as an agent for an established licensee. This will not without a licence to apply for one. By making licensing affordable change in the future. However it would be easier for them under the and by eliminating costly security requirements, this proposed 271
5454 COMMONS DEBATES March 27, 1998
Government Orders legislation will allow the number of licensed special crops dealers Exchange with trade clearing done by Winnipeg Commodity to increase. Both large and small dealers will operate on a level Clearing Ltd. playing field. In the spring of 1997 the Canadian Grain Commission completed The third element concerning proposed changes to the Canada its consultation process with nearly 70 stakeholder groups and Grain Act is the establishment of a special crops advisory commit- companies involved in the trading of grain futures and options. The tee. The committee will be appointed by the Minister of Agricul- purpose of the consultations was to determine the extent of industry ture and Agri-Food. It will be composed of a maximum of nine support for a proposal to repeal the Grain Futures Act. These members representing special crops producers, processors, produc- consultations were triggered by a recommendation made by the er-processors, and exporters. Each prairie province and sector of board of governors of the Winnipeg Commodity Exchange in 1996 the industry will be represented on the committee. The majority of calling for a change in regulator from the Canadian Grain Commis- the members will be producers. sion to the Manitoba Securities Commission. This recommenda- tion stemmed from the exchanges plan to introduce trading in The special crops advisory committee will advise the Minister of non-grain products. Agriculture and Agri-Food on the operations of the special crops program. The committee can recommend to the minister that the D administrator of the insurance plan or the insurer be replaced. It can (1030) also make recommendations on the designation of new crops and on other issues referred by the minister. There is wide agreement that the Manitoba Securities Commis- sion has the appropriate statute to effectively regulate all trading I will now talk about our proposed amendments to the Adminis- activities at the Winnipeg Commodity Exchange. The province of trative Monetary Penalties Act, AMPA, so that AMPA applies to Manitoba has enacted the Commodity Futures Act, giving the the Canada Grain Act. The Administrative Monetary Penalties Act Manitoba Securities Commission the mandate to regulate grain is legislation that was enacted in 1995. It provides a broad range of futures trading. The legislation is expected to be proclaimed very enforcement options by allowing monetary penalties, fines, to be soon. levied for non-compliance with regulations. The Fertilizer Act, Plant Protect Act, Health of Animals Act, Pest Control Products Several strong messages were received as a result of the Act and Feeds Act are subject to this innovative legislation. consultation process. They included the following. The current Grain Futures Act is outmoded and no longer meets international The main enforcement options now available under the Canada and domestic regulatory standards. It does not have the elements or Grain Act are the suspension and revocation of licences and scope to be an effective regulatory tool for the futures industry prosecution. However, those sanctions have the impact of stopping today. The act provides for only the regulation of grain futures business operations either temporarily or perhaps permanently. contracts. It does not provide the authority to regulate all trading Because their impact is so serious, they are seen as a sanction of current and proposed at the Winnipeg Commodity Exchange. last resort, not as a normal regulatory enforcement tool. The current options are also costly, lengthy and mean that strict procedural requirements must be followed. This key prairie institution wants to get involved in non-grain contracts such as hogs. Under the current legislation for non-grain commodities the WCE would be subject to provincial legislation With this proposed change, the Canadian Grain Commission will and regulations. Transferring regulatory responsibilities to the have a broader range of measures to enforce its regulations. province of Manitoba will eliminate the unsatisfactory prospect of the Winnipeg Commodity Exchange being subject to regulation by both the province of Manitoba for grain and non-grain contracts An important feature of AMPA is that it allows for the issuing of and by the Government of Canada for grain futures contracts. This warnings and negotiated solutions to non-compliance. Administra- scenario is inconsistent with our national objectives of avoiding tive monetary penalties can be reduced to zero if a violator takes overlap and duplication of federal and provincial activities. immediate corrective action to comply. In this way AMPA empha- sizes compliance, not punishment. The province of Manitoba’s regulatory body, the Manitoba I would now like to move on to talk about our initiative to repeal Securities Commission, has the legislation to provide the regulato- the Grain Futures Act. ry oversight that meets national and international standards. The Manitoba legislation features comprehensive regulation of all aspects of futures and options trading from the point of order taking As members may be aware, the Grain Futures Act is federal by futures commission merchants to the transactions on the floor legislation that was created in 1939. Under the act the Canadian and the clearing of trade. In contrast the Grain Futures Act provides Grain Commission is responsible for regulating grain futures for only the supervision of grain futures trading and the clearing trading in Canada which is done solely at the Winnipeg Commodity process. 272
March 27, 1998 COMMONS DEBATES 5455
Government Orders The Manitoba Securities Commission has also indicated that it legislation. On behalf of farmers I encourage the government to will acquire additional expertise in grains futures by hiring seize that opportunity. experienced staff, giving it the necessary resources to do an effective job. They have a chance to seriously consider concerns that produc- ers of special crops have about this very complex bill. After all, The Canadian Grain Commission intends to maintain an ongoing that is what MPs are supposed to be doing here. Reformers place liaison with the Manitoba Securities Commission through a memo- very heavy emphasis on consultation and feedback from Cana- randum of understanding. Preliminary discussions have already dians. Reformers base their policies on what voters have indicated been held. This process will ensure that a formal mechanism is in are their wishes. We consult, listen and then we consult again. The place to communicate grain industry concerns and to ensure result is a product that provides the most accurate reflection of the harmonization of trading regulators with grain handling regula- will of the people ever seen in the Chamber. tions. Consensus building is never easy but it will always produce I would like to conclude by stating that this proposed legislation better legislation than simply responding to lobbyists, special is our government’s response to the express needs of the western interest groups or bureaucrats, which seems to be the Liberal agriculture industry. If passed, the legislation would benefit the method of drafting policy. The parliamentary secretary referred to special crops sector by recognizing and addressing the following the consultations he believes and the government believes have principles: that security should be available to all producers who taken place, but I believe the job is not yet done. are prepared to pay for it; that their participation in an insurance plan should be voluntary; that the regulatory system for special It is high time Liberal MPs gave this process a try. I realize it is a crops should encourage development of the industry and not little against their natural tendencies but they might be surprised to impede it; and that the program should be affordable, simple to find some pleasure out of newly found democratic ways. From administer and should not impose any additional costs or bureau- personal experience I can attest it is a great feeling to know one is cracy on any sector of the special crops industry. accurately reflecting the views of constituents and those of Cana- dians. Repeal of the outmoded Grain Futures Act would recognize the following principles: that the federal government supports the It is due to this need for feedback and consultation that Reform introduction of a comprehensive, contemporary regulatory frame- MPs have given tentative support to Bill C-26. I describe that work that will allow futures and options trading on the Winnipeg support as tentative because it is in the early days yet. The debate Commodity Exchange to develop new contracts and that dual and analysis of the legislation has only just begun. regulations should be avoided or eliminated.
While at the outset it appears as though parts of the legislation The principal amendments before the House represent what the may reap positive results in the form of increased financial security industry and producers believe are necessary for the future growth for producers of special crops, we have yet to hear from the of the agricultural sector. I recommend that members of the House majority of those producers and from other stakeholders affected support Bill C-26. by the legislation. We have yet to hear from the majority of producers of beans, buckwheat, corn, faba beans, lentils, mustard D (1035) seed, peas, safflower seed, soybeans, sunflower seed and triticale. The same goes for any other party, and there are other parties, that feel the legislation will touch them as well. Mr. Jay Hill (Prince George—Peace River, Ref.): Mr. Speak- er, it is a pleasure for me to speak to Bill C-26. As outlined by the parliamentary secretary, it is an act to amend the Canada Grain Act It is members of these groups who are the experts. We must and the Agriculture and Agri-Food Administrative Monetary Pen- listen to their expert opinions on how Bill C-26 will affect their alties Act and to repeal the Grain Futures Act. livelihoods. I have personally written to a number of these groups which represent special crops farmers asking them to send me their praise or their criticisms of the bill. I have also sent an open letter I challenge government members across the floor to truly and to the editor of the Western Producer inviting persons affected by carefully listen to what farmers have to say about Bill C-26. The the legislation to share their views with me. Hopefully it will find parliamentary secretary spoke long and eloquently about the room in its next publication to print my appeal for input. consultative process that led up to Bill C-26, but I believe the job is only half done. This will kick-start a process of consultation, an ongoing process that I am confident will result in some concrete proposals to While it is true the government has a dismal track record when it actually improve Bill C-26. This consultative process must be comes to listening to either farmers or the Canadian people, I given the opportunity to achieve results. That means that when the believe it has a chance to partially redeem itself through the bill goes to the Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food 273
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Government Orders all members of that committee must be ready and willing to give At this point I have little doubt that my Reform colleagues and I sufficient time and opportunity for witnesses to come forward with will be proposing amendments to Bill C-26 either at the agriculture their opinions and proposals. committee or at report stage in the Chamber. Certain problems with the bill are already apparent through the limited feedback we have Unfortunately this is not something we simply expect to happen. received thus far. As I mentioned, even if the government is not It should be something we should be able to expect as part of our ready to consult with farmers Reformers are. democratic parliamentary process. However the government has shown us time and time again that this process can be manipulated I am looking forward to the responses to my invitation to and mutilated to the point that democracy can barely be seen. comment on Bill C-26. Based on those responses if the majority of farmers support the bill we will know it. If the majority of farmers D (1040) oppose the bill we will also know that.
For those who are unfamiliar with the sad story of Bill C-4, I will I have a number of preliminary concerns about Bill C-26 that I tell them how that bill was rammed through committee stage. Grain believe should be addressed in coming days along with the farmers and farm groups whose livelihoods depend upon reform of concerns we will hear from farmers. One of the most worrisome the Canadian Wheat Board were given less than two weeks, or just aspects of Bill C-26, which I hope can be addressed through six short meetings in Ottawa, to tell MPs on the agriculture amendments, is the lack of details outlining how the special crops committee what was wrong with Bill C-4. They were lumped industry insurance plan will function. Instead of having these together, up to four at a time, in a round table style presentation. details put in place by parliament, meaning that they will undergo These stakeholders who have the right to have their views heard by the scrutiny and debate of MPs and farmers, regulations will be put elected representatives were barely squeezed in to the Liberal in place. Regulations are not subjected to the consultation and members’ agenda and once they were before the committee their approval required for legislation. comments were virtually ignored and their expertise was disre- garded. Passing Bill C-26 with the details of the insurance plan missing is like signing a blank cheque. I am not prepared to sign off the Reform MPs on the committee, including myself, collectively legislation without at least setting up some essential parameters for had just seven minutes to question witnesses to garner a complete the operation of the insurance plan. Perhaps the government felt understanding of their position. By the time the sixth and final this task is too onerous or too complicated to be included in the bill. committee meeting allotted for Bill C-4 came along, it was apparent that Liberal committee members had no intention of making any of the substantive changes required. I assure the government and the minister of agriculture that producers of special crops will be willing to meet that challenge. There is too much at stake to avoid the particulars and leave them In less than two hours the entire bill was analysed clause by to be determined through regulations. Farmers’ interests need to be clause and returned to the House, not as improved legislation that protected. reflected farmer feedback but as the same ineffective unanimously despised bill that was tabled by the minister responsible for the wheat board in the first place. For example, the insurance levy requires limitations. The special crops rural initiative program or SCRIP committee, which includes Since it had been immediately apparent that amendments would producers and processors from the three prairie provinces, made a not be given fair consideration at committee, my Reform col- number of recommendations in the April 1996 report, many of leagues and I chose to table our amendments at report stage, hoping which are contained in the bill as the parliamentary secretary that all MPs in the House would take the time to thoroughly outlined. However, the SCRIP committee recommended that the consider them. insurance levy remain under 1% of the gross value of grain sale proceeds but there is no clause to reflect this limit in Bill C-26.
What did the Liberals think of the amendments that were derived by farmers? They thought they were a waste of time. The govern- D (1045) ment invoked time allocation and cut off debate on Bill C-4. Consultation was certainly not to get in the way of the govern- ment’s tight schedule. I cannot be content nor can farmers to rely on the minister’s word or assurances that in future regulations the levy will not surpass 1%. Bill C-26 requires more certainty on this issue and on You can understand, Mr. Speaker, why I challenge government many other particulars of the insurance plan. members to truly consult with farmers on Bill C-26. I am under- standably sceptical. I am concerned for farmers. I am concerned that their voices will be ignored as they were during the debate on Another concern arises from experiences that tell us that govern- Bill C-4. ment interference in agriculture can often be a hindrance to 274
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Government Orders progress. Bureaucracy and farming do not mix. Whenever possible, cated during his remarks, I found many producers are not really the market and the private sector must be allowed to determine an aware that this legislation even exists at this point. We have some industry’s direction. There are two examples in this legislation that feedback coming to us about Bill C-26. I would like to read into the run opposite to this philosophy. record a couple of letters I have received from groups.
The first is that the Canadian Grain Commission will run the The first is from the Foam Lake marketing club, a group of insurance plan. Perhaps during the formative months that the plan producers from Foam Lake, Saskatchewan. is being established the CGC could play a stabilizing role as administrator. However, there is no reason that legislation should not call for the eventual return of the plan to one of the producer D (1050) groups. The insurance plan runs the risk of becoming bogged down in the infamous government bureaucracy. In a February 19, 1998 letter to the minister on Bill C-26 they say: In a related issue, the insurance plan is insured by the Export Development Corporation, a federal government institution. Why We are very concerned with the SCRIP portion of Bill C-26 and as such, request not allow a private insurance company to act as the insurer? It is an that it be withdrawn for further study or substantially amended. Our request is supported by the following points: option that must be investigated. It is often found that private companies have premiums competitive to premiums charged by the 1) There appears to have been a calculated effort by the CGC and the SCRIP federal government to ensure an insurance plan. If that is the case committee to develop their proposal in secret. then farmers and taxpayers would be better off if a private company were chosen. This is quite contrary to the opening remarks of the parliamenta- ry secretary about the great consultative process that the govern- The Reform Party favours fostering the development of private ment went through. sector management strategies in the Canadian agricultural industry. We need less government interference in agriculture. We need to There are very few farmers who know that the SCRIP bill is about to become law, let alone know the contents. support an increase in private enterprise. 2) There have been several large membership organizations which have rejected SCRIP at their annual meetings, (1) the Saskatchewan Canola Growers Association, Further concerns will no doubt arise over the levy. The CGC says (2) the Western Canadian Wheat Growers Association, (3) the Saskatchewan Pulse the initial levy will be set at .0038 or almost four-tenths of 1% Crop Development Board and (4) the Western Barley Growers Association. which is slightly higher than the SCRIP committee had originally suggested. There will be questions about this increase in the levy. 3) The SCRIP proposal, while being promoted as voluntary, is nothing short of a worst case example of negative billing. This of course could be made acceptable if it The CGC also says that one-third of the levy will be consumed by was made truly voluntary for both the special crop growers and the grain dealers. administrative costs and two-thirds will go toward the premium on the fund. Minimizing the administrative costs will be a priority for 4) The key reason for the various commodity groups rejecting the SCRIP farmers and Reform MPs. It has also been suggested that the proposal was the suggestion in the CGC briefing notes that cereal and oilseed crops deductible be set at 20%. may well be added at a later date. It is obvious from this that the federal government is anxious to absolve itself of the security responsibilities which are clearly spelled out in the Canada Grain Act. I remind everyone that all these figures mentioned are not in the legislation. They were either contained in the SCRIP report or in a On point 4, I believe the author is talking about this bill as being press release issued by the CGC and this gives cause for great more unloading, more downloading of government responsibilities concern. While it may be difficult to specify precise numbers and to the producers. The letter goes on: percentages, farmers will want some assurance through legislation that rigid guidelines are in place to prevent the plan from becoming 5) The other very troubling aspect of this proposal (which is left up to the too expensive or too administratively burdened. regulators) is the fact that farmers will be paying a tax rather than a competitive cost item which would normally be built into the grain buyer’s basis. Our industry has far too many regulated cost items which are void of any competitive forces. Even though levy rates deductibles are not found in any clause in Bill C-26 government MPs better be prepared to accept the reality What the author is referring to is competition. There should be that producers and processors will demand the opportunity to open competition. Any time we get a situation where we have only discuss them. They will not be willing to leave the fate of their one person supplying the insurance for an industry, without livelihoods to be determined solely by regulation. competition, we run the risk that the premiums and administration costs could be to high. I refer to some of the feedback that has come. This legislation is really in its infancy even though there has been a consultative 6) The final concern we would like to raise with you is the recent aggression which has been initiated by the CGC. Special crops dealers have indicated to us there have process under way for quite some time. This legislation is quite been a number of instances where the CGC has instructed the RCMP to seize records new to this place. Despite what the parliamentary secretary indi- and close businesses down. These RCMP raids would appear to be linked directly to the 275
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S. O. 31 SCRIP legislation. We urge you, Mr. Minister, to call off these scare tactics and allow One of the concerns about this legislation and the fact that there the special crops industry to advance and prosper as it has done without the onerous regulations which are inherent in the grain industry in western Canada. is a need to have insurance and bonds posted by grain dealers, in this case special crops dealers, is that farmers always run the risk of The Foam Lake Marketing Club is a group of 20 commercial farmers who meet having their product sold to a company that goes bankrupt. The on a regular basis to keep abreast of commodity market trends and advance our farmer is then left on the hook. Unfortunately we have seen that vision for a less regulated and a more market responsive agriculture industry in western Canada. happen a few times.
We trust you will respect our recommendation for withdrawal of SCRIP or make the necessary amendments to have it completely voluntary. I was told about a case where a company called Klemmer Seeds in Saskatchewan a couple of years ago went into receivership and Sincerely, some farmers were left on the hook and government and taxpayers Bill Cooper, President had to come to their assistance.
I briefly want to refer to another copy of a letter that came to me Those of involved in agriculture and follow the agricultural from the Western Canadian Wheat Growers Association. It is also industry are very well aware of what happened in the last week or about this particular legislation. As I indicated, we are starting to so with Palliser Grain going into receivership. get some feedback about Bill C-26. Reform MPs from Saskatchewan showed great initiative recent- ly by holding and hosting an open forum. They invited farmers This letter states: from Saskatoon, Saskatchewan and approximately 300 showed up. Dear Minister: I was also at this forum and spoke to the farmers. Many of the farmers approached me with concerns about Palliser Grain going Re: an act to amend the Canada Grain Act and the Agriculture and Agri-Food into receivership. Their immediate concern was for the grain the Administrative Monetary Penalties Act and to the repeal the Grain Futures Act company had in storage. I am writing today specifically on the issue of the Special Crops Rural Initiative Program (SCRIP) proposed under Bill C-26. The attached resolution, passed by I would just like to give a bit of an indication of the magnitude of delegates to the Western Canadian Wheat Growers Association (WCWGA) annual meeting earlier this year, clearly spells out the position of our association on this the disaster. I had a couple of farmers tell me that they were program. Similar resolutions were also passed by delegates to the Saskatchewan unfortunately in a position where they had eight carloads of flax Pulse Crop Development Board, Saskatchewan Canola Growers Association and the that they had unloaded sometime last fall. The value of this, to put Western Barley Growers Association this year. this in some perspective for a reasonably mid sized farm, is about Since the passage of the resolution, the WCWGA took the initiative to meet with $200,000. This flax was with Palliser and they are unclear at this the Canadian Grain Commission (CGC) President Barry Senft and his staff as well as point, because they had opted for a deferred payment, whether they several members of the SCRIP committee to discuss our members’ concerns. Our are going to be covered by the bond that Palliser was carrying. primary concern with the program is with the insurance plan. The mandatory payment of the levy at source is, in our opinion, a form of negative billing, and will be perceived as a tax on the farm community. We would therefore suggest that the The Acting Speaker (Mr. McClelland): I am sorry but I must program be amended to ensure participation in the program is truly voluntary for interrupt the member for Prince George—Peace River. However, both the special crop grower and the special crop dealer. the member will have almost 16 minutes remaining after question period. D (1055)
It goes on in that light. Another concern he refers to is on page 2: ______
Because a significant number of wheat grower members are growers of special crops, we are also compelled to comment on the fact that the CGC is considering including cereal and oilseed crops in this program. If in fact the proposed legislation is all encompassing and only requires regulatory additions to include wheat, other STATEMENTS BY MEMBERS cereals, and oilseeds, then we must demand that the SCRIP section of Bill C-26 be repealed.
That letter was signed by Larry Maguire, president of the [English] Western Canadian Wheat Growers Association. MPS VERSUS PAGES HOCKEY GAME As I noted during my remarks, what we have seen is some feedback already starting to filter back. Mr. David Pratt (Nepean—Carleton, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, on Wednesday night the quiet community of Sandy Hill here in I am not sure I can wrap up before question period. I have some Ottawa reverberated with the sound of cannonading slap shots and other stories I would like to relate concerning this legislation. the roar of a partisan crowd. 276
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S. O. 31 The event was the annual MPs versus the pages hockey game. IMMIGRATION It is the only game in town where opposition and government members can be seen skating in the same direction and working Mr. John McKay (Scarborough East, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, toward the same goal. given your elevated status in life I do not know whether you have occasion to take taxis to and from the Ottawa airport. However, The pages put together a solid effort. Led by their very capable other members and I do and, in fact, there will be a rush for the goalie Julian Ovens, they were energetic and enthusiastic. taxis in a short period of time. The likelihood is that I will be picked up by a computer engineer from Sri Lanka, delivered to the D (1100) airport and then returned to my home by a science graduate from Sri Lanka. I was delivered to my office building this morning by a The TSN turning point came when the pages, with four MPs in history graduate from Kenya. the penalty box, were unable to score. Spurred on by the inspira- tional play of the member for Nunavut, the MPs finally triumphed Our greatest resources are our human resources. It is somewhat with a score of six to five. But the pages had the last laugh because scandalous that in this country we do not use our immigrants in a yesterday I saw none of them limping around with sore muscles. more useful fashion which would allow them to contribute to our country.
* * * The legislative review entitled ‘‘Not Just Numbers’’ states the following in recommendation No. 27: ‘‘The proposed federal-pro- vincial council on immigration protection should establish access TECHNOLOGY PARTNERSHIPS CANADA to trades and professions and foreign credential recognition—’’ Mr. Paul Steckle (Huron—Bruce, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, let me The Speaker: The hon. member for Lambton—Kent—Middle- set the record straight by congratulating successful companies from sex. British Columbia which this government is supporting through Technology Partnerships Canada. Investments to date are over $57 million. This federal support is expected to create more than 4,800 * * * jobs in B.C. These innovative companies include Ballard Power Systems, Avcorp Industries, Western Star Trucks, Dynamotive, AGRICULTURE Doyle Argosy (Coincard), Starvision Multimedia and Paprican. Mrs. Rose-Marie Ur (Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, Lib.): Federal government investments are helping to position these Mr. Speaker, the Middlesex Federation of Agriculture is one of the B.C. companies as world leaders in the environment, information leading farm organizations in southwestern Ontario. This weekend, technologies, aerospace and pulp and paper sectors. Together we in what has become an annual event, Middlesex farmers will meet are working to support innovation and promote economic growth. with my colleagues from Perth-Middlesex, Elgin-Middlesex-Lon- don and myself as well as the area provincial member. The variety of issues for discussion will range from international trade and * * * farm finance to research investment and rural development.
DEHYDRATION INDUSTRY Ontario’s agriculture industry is world class in management technology and production, with more than $6.5 billion in farm Mr. Derrek Konrad (Prince Albert, Ref.): Mr. Speaker, Euro- gate receipts in 1996. It is contributing nearly $22.2 billion to the pean subsidies are threatening Canadian jobs in the dehydration provincial GDP, employing 672,000 people. industry, in particular in my riding of Prince Albert where about Sound government policy is required to encourage the growth two-thirds of Saskatchewan’s capacity lies. This week I met with and stability of agriculture. I look forward to working with the representatives of the Canadian Dehydrators Association who Middlesex federation to ensure that agriculture is at the top of the came to Ottawa because federal rail policies are killing their government’s agenda. business.
Unfair subsidization by the European common market already * * * creates problems for the industry. Our producers have already lost the European market due to its subsidies and now they stand to lose FISHERIES the Asian market as well. Mr. John Duncan (Vancouver Island North, Ref.): Mr. Speak- In addition to the disadvantage caused by the subsidies, unreli- er, the 1998 low salmon returns in British Columbia are a direct able piecemeal rail service undermines Canada’s best efforts to result of shortfalls in returning four-year old spawning salmon. The compete. They are not asking for subsidies, just for the freedom to late returning Fraser River sockeye run was fished out within 12 compete. Canadian dehydrators want economic efficiencies to hours in 1994. The 1994 disaster led to a major re-examination of determine rail service in Canada and to ensure grains are not DFO policy and gave a black eye to the department. Now the unduly favoured at the expense of their industry. minister is blaming some guy called El Niño and a host of other 277
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S. O. 31 things rather than accepting responsibility for disastrous fishery This package provides a further $20 million for economic management on both coasts, affecting the livelihood of tens of recovery for damages not covered by the DFAA. The governments thousands. This is despite clear evidence to the contrary. of Canada and Ontario agree to cost share this program on a 50:50 basis. D (1105) The total assistance being provided in eastern Ontario is consis- Why is the minister refusing to accept responsibility and to make tent with that provided for farmers in the Saguenay and Red River the tough decisions? disasters and to the support the Government of Canada is giving to help with the effects of this tragic ice storm. The Liberals are an odd lot Always hoping to change the plot Campaigning for the byelection * * * They are hoping for a resurrection But after Monday this fact they will dread In B.C. the red heads are dead BRITISH COLUMBIA BYELECTION
Ms. Val Meredith (South Surrey—White Rock—Langley, * * * Ref.): Mr. Speaker, British Columbians were greatly amused [Translation] yesterday at the spectacle of Liberal MPs from Ontario and Quebec professing their love and concern for our province, but only because there is a byelection under way. MEMBER FOR SHERBROOKE
Mr. Guy St-Julien (Abitibi, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I would like to They seemed so sincere as they read their prepared scripts and pay tribute to the member for Sherbrooke, the hon. Jean Charest, almost pulled off this piece of fiction until question period. who officially announced his— In response to a patsy question from one of her own colleagues, The Speaker: I am sorry to interrupt the hon. member, but I the Secretary of State for Multiculturalism and Status of Women should remind him that we cannot name a member of Parliament. showed the true colours of the Liberals when she could not even remember the name of the constituency where the byelection is Mr. Guy St-Julien: Mr. Speaker, I would like to pay tribute to being held. This is truly remarkable considering that the secretary the member for Sherbrooke, who officially announced his candida- of state represents a riding that is less than 20 kilometres from Port cy for the leadership of the Liberal Party of Quebec. Moody—Coquitlam. This shows British Columbians just how ignorant the Liberals really are about British Columbia. The man from Sherbrooke can do it. He can bring people together. He is brave, honest and a diplomat. * * * We are proud of his decision. Today is a great day for the people of Quebec and for the province’s economic future. [Translation] Thanks Michèle, thanks to the people in the riding of Sher- brooke, and thanks Jean. See you soon. WORLD THEATRE DAY
* * * Mrs. Monique Guay (Laurentides, BQ): Mr. Speaker, the theatre world is celebrating these days. The International Theatre [English] Institute is celebrating its 50th anniversary. Its representative in Quebec, the Conseil québécois du théâtre, is marking its 15th anniversary. ICE STORM 1998
Mr. Hec Clouthier (Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, Lib.): Today is World Theatre Day. The Conseil québécois du théâtre Mr. Speaker, many farmers including those from the great riding of and the performers and craftspeople in Quebec theatre are taking Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke were hard hit by the January ice part in the various celebrations around the world. In this connec- storm, one of the greatest natural disasters in Canadian history. tion, over 20 theatres in Quebec have organized free activities to encourage sharing and discovery. The Government of Canada recognizes the magnitude of the losses faced by these farmers and it is for this reason that the The eighth annual theatre congress, with this year’s theme of Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada along with his ‘‘Theatre: a collective art’’, will be held this weekend at Montreal’s provincial counterparts announced this morning that all farmers in Maisonneuve CEGEP. Performers and craftspeople will be invited eastern Ontario will be eligible for compensation for ice storm to take part in round tables and so will the public, the focus of and damage. the audience for the theatre. 278
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S. O. 31 I therefore urge Quebeckers to enter the world of theatre and BRITISH COLUMBIA give it the support it needs to continue filling their lives with dreams and magic. Mr. Mac Harb (Ottawa Centre, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, yesterday the NDP Government of British Columbia promised to deliver tax relief and a deficit of almost $200 million. It sounds like something * * * out of the Reform Party platform. Just like Reform the B.C. government fails to understand that good government means [English] cleaning your house before you redecorate.
INFRASTRUCTURE The priorities of Canadians in B.C. and across the country are clear. They want governments to eliminate their deficit first and Mr. John Harvard (Charleswood—Assiniboine, Lib.): Mr. then lower the tax and debt burden while improving our social Speaker, at the Western Canada Roadbuilders and Heavy Construc- programs. Promising a tax cut while running a deficit is like selling tion Association convention in Victoria yesterday, delegates from the house to save the furniture. the private sector and the provinces called for more investment in the infrastructure of our country. I wonder when the tail will stop wagging the dog. Is that as good as it gets? D (1110)
As Liberals we are glad to observe that others are starting to see * * * value in the idea we first proposed in the 1993 campaign. [Translation] While the Reform Party would have us believe that money spent on improving our nation’s roads, sewers and municipal buildings is COMMISSION ON FUTURE OF MIRABEL AIRPORT a waste, grassroots Canadians know that it is an important invest- ment in our communities. According to an industry spokesperson Mr. Maurice Dumas (Argenteuil—Papineau, BQ): Mr. the spinoff for every construction job is three more jobs. That is Speaker, yesterday, we Bloc members from the Lower Laurentians, why we are proud to have spent over $100 million federal dollars in in conjunction with the hon. member for Beauport—Montmoren- British Columbia over the last four years in direct support of these cy—Orléans, tabled a brief during one of the hearings held by the efforts. commission on the future of Mirabel airport. We join British Columbians like Lou Sekora in Port Moody— The Bloc Quebecois cares about the survival of the airport and Coquitlam who have been at the forefront in calling for direct the social and economic development of the Laurentians. We have community investment. made several recommendations to the commission, including one asking the concerned authorities to finish building highway 13 as * * * soon as possible in order to allow Mirabel to maintain the highest level of economic activity.
HEPATITIS C We have recommended that ADM, Aéroports de Montréal, try to attract companies to Mirabel and allow the use of the facilities at an Ms. Bev Desjarlais (Churchill, NDP): Mr. Speaker, the govern- attractive price. For Mirabel airport to achieve its full potential, it ment announced an offer to compensate less than half of those who must diversify its economic operations and be given a multi-secto- contacted hepatitis C through the blood system. Over 30,000 ral mandate. people will suffer in poverty simply because they went to a hospital for treatment and came out sicker than when they went in. We deplore the fact that the federal government is not on the Tardif commission, for it is responsible for the mess we are in. The Canadian Hemophilia Society said this is not a compassion- ate solution but a legalistic one. The Hepatitis C Society of Canada calls it a compensation plan created in hell. The government has * * * forced hepatitis C sufferers to wait, to become embroiled in legal wrangles and has ignored the Krever report recommendations to compensate all victims. JUDICIAL SYSTEM IN RESTIGOUCHE REGION
The New Democratic Party urges the federal government to Mr. Jean Dubé (Madawaska—Restigouche, PC): Mr. Speaker, show leadership on this issue and put additional money forward to at times I understand how people can become frustrated with compensate all victims of this terrible tragedy equally rather than politicians. Take for instance a matter I have raised in this House: pit one group of ill and suffering people against another. the backlog of legal cases in the Restigouche region. 279
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Oral Questions In this region, delays in court proceedings are so long that an from compensation. Twenty thousand victims minimum are being extra judge should be appointed to turn the situation around. What excluded from the compensation package. are the Liberal politicians doing about it? They are passing the buck from one level of government to the other. I am going to give the government the opportunity to explain this to the Canadian public. Why does Pam Rasmussen of Nantom, On February 18, the Minister of Justice of New Brunswick made Alberta, who got hepatitis C from contaminated blood in 1985 not the following comment ‘‘As you know, appointments to the Court get fair and just compensation? of Queen’s Bench are the responsibility of the federal govern- ment.’’ Mr. Joseph Volpe (Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Health, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I am glad the member opposite has In Ottawa, on March 19, the parliamentary secretary to the taken a very calm approach to a very serious problem. Minister of Justice made the following comment: ‘‘the matter is a provincial responsibility.’’ Ever since the Krever commission submitted its report and even While the two levels of government are busy washing their before, the Government of Canada, in collaboration with its hands of the matter, delays at the Campbellton Court keep getting provincial counterparts in the health departments, has taken an longer. The people of the Restigouche region are being denied their approach to deal with the issue on a fair and compassionate basis. fundamental right to justice. The package that is now before Canadians represents just such I urge the Minister of Justice to show leadership on this issue. an approach. We hope people will take a look at the package as it is and address it in the very many positive points that it presents for * * * victims of this tragedy. [English] Mr. Grant Hill (Macleod, Ref.): Mr. Speaker, I am certain Pam Rasmussen will know that the parliamentary secretary did not THE KIDNEY FOUNDATION answer my question about why she is excluded. This is a human tragedy, a major human tragedy, and the government is viewing it Mr. Joseph Volpe (Eglinton—Lawrence, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I only as a public relations damage control issue. am pleased to inform this House and all Canadians that March is kidney month. We received a document from them which says that they are suppose to talk in compassionate terms but deliver nothing. I want D (1115) to know why the lawyers in the government won out over those who surely must know that these victims deserve a compassionate, The Kidney Foundation of Canada will again be focusing its fair settlement. effort on educating the public regarding the importance of organ donation. Mr. Joseph Volpe (Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of An estimated 20,000 Canadians suffer from kidney failure. Health, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, compassion and fairness are to be seen Millions of others suffer from kidney related disorders. For many in the package itself. There is an offer on the table representing Canadians a kidney transplant is their only option. Nearly 2,400 of $1.1 billion that victims can access as well as an estimated value of 2,800 Canadians that were on the waiting list in 1996 were still $1.6 billion for services in addition to those that are regularly waiting for kidney transplants by the end of that year. A strategy to provided under Canada’s health care system through the provinces. improve organ donation and distribution was endorsed by federal, provincial and territorial health ministers. This represents in my view a very fair and compassionate address to a problem that has been longstanding and that we I take this opportunity to encourage all Canadians to sign an want— organ donor card and to support the Kidney Foundation of Canada. The Speaker: The hon. member for Macleod. ______Mr. Grant Hill (Macleod, Ref.): Mr. Speaker, the leaked strategy document says a huge amount to me. They know them- selves that this compensation package is a failure. Why else would ORAL QUESTION PERIOD they try to exclude the victims from the microphone as the minister makes his announcement? Why else would they try to say to those [English] victims ‘‘you cannot get anything if you were infected before 1985?’’ HEPATITIS C Why did they choose a hard-hearted legal route rather than Mr. Grant Hill (Macleod, Ref.): Mr. Speaker, the government extending the warm hand of compassion to those unfortunate today chose to exclude half the victims of the hepatitis C tragedy innocent victims? 280
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Oral Questions Mr. Joseph Volpe (Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of I remind the member and all members in the House that there is a Health, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, it is important to review some of the third party: all negotiated offers are subject to court approval. details of the package that are there for consideration. Those who prefer to go a different route still have that option.
It is true this represents a combined negotiated approach. All * * * governments of Canada, all political parties of all stripes, have come together to put an offer on the table to address the needs of [Translation] victims that were longstanding and were facing a long process in the courts. OPTION CANADA
We all agreed including stakeholders that— Mrs. Suzanne Tremblay (Rimouski—Mitis, BQ): Mr. Speak- er, on January 8, 1998, the auditor general informed the Minister of The Speaker: The hon. member for Elk Island. Canadian Heritage that he was not satisfied with the report submitted in December 1997 by Option Canada. Mr. Ken Epp (Elk Island, Ref.): Mr. Speaker, to this govern- ment the lives of some hepatitis C victims are worth less than those The minister then ordered a new report, which she received on of others. If people were affected in one year they are eligible; it if March 20, but which was similar in every respect to the first one. was one year before they are not. Knowing that the auditor general will not be pleased with the D (1120) new report, since he already said that the December report was inadequate, will the minister now demand a comprehensive report My uncle died just two months ago. He is one of the faceless to identify who got the contracts, at what time, to do what, and names being callously dismissed. Why will the government not when? show some caring and compensate these victims fairly, instead of Hon. Sheila Copps (Minister of Canadian Heritage, Lib.): punishing them for dying at the wrong time? Mr. Speaker, I already provided the House with over 100 pages of information. Mr. Joseph Volpe (Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Health, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I feel sorry for all those who have As soon as I received Option Canada’s reply, I transmitted it to suffered from this terrible tragedy. However I think it is important the hon. member and to the auditor general. I am fully satisfied that that the member keep in mind that the estates of the victims who the requirements which had not been met originally have now been have since passed on are also eligible in the compensation package. met and that the case is closed.
All governments of Canada of all political stripes have taken to Mrs. Suzanne Tremblay (Rimouski—Mitis, BQ): Mr. Speak- heart the need to address this issue in the best possible fashion. er, it is easy to make fun of taxpayers.
The member opposite ought to take a moment to reflect on the With the second report, we now know how much GST and QST fact this is something extremely positive that all victims can Option Canada paid. It is the only difference between the two access. Should they wish not— reports.
The Speaker: The hon. member for Elk Island. Will the minister pledge to ask for a new report that will answer the auditor general’s question, which is ‘‘What was actually done, Mr. Ken Epp (Elk Island, Ref.): Mr. Speaker, the Liberals are produced and achieved’’ by Option Canada? spending money on hiring public relations consultants and they are ignoring the victims. They have spent more time drafting damage Hon. Sheila Copps (Minister of Canadian Heritage, Lib.): control plans like the one that was leaked last night than they have Mr. Speaker, the PQ and the BQ are always griping and this is consoling the dying. unfortunate, because it is harmful to the Quebec and Canadian economies.
Why will the government not compensate these victims instead An hon. members: Troublemakers. of fighting them in court and turning off their microphones at press conferences? Hon. Sheila Copps: Yes, troublemakers. If so, since we pro- vided all the information available, why did they not go after Mr. Joseph Volpe (Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Bernard Landry, who never followed up on the request made by Health, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, as I said a moment ago, the compensa- Jean-Marc Fournier regarding Plan O? Mr. Landry refused to tion package that is on the table is one that all victims can access. provide any documents. These people are the ones who do every- thing in secret regarding Plan O. They are troublemakers. It is those victims who regrettably are limited to a time when we can identify the cause. Those who do not want to participate in that Ms. Hélène Alarie (Louis-Hébert, BQ): Mr. Speaker, my package are quite free to proceed in the courts. question is for the Minister of Canadian Heritage. 281
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Oral Questions We have a mystery. The minister sent us a copy of a letter she The government refuses to hear the legitimate concerns of small had sent to the home of Claude Dauphin, informing him that her depositors, small businesses and smaller communities on the officials had written his lawyer. This letter is undated and fewer megabank merger until after the task force on financial services than three lines long. reports.
On March 20, Option Canada wrote to the minister and referred In stark contrast the government rolls out the red carpet to the to another letter that is dated February 3 and contains a number of international financial elite. The government cannot wait to fast questions. What is behind this new mess? track the WTO deal thereby throwing open Canada’s borders to foreign banks. D (1125) Why does the government hide behind the task force on financial Hon. Sheila Copps (Minister of Canadian Heritage, Lib.): services when it comes to the megabank concerns of Canadian Mr. Speaker, I have here a letter. Unfortunately, it is a letter that citizens and Canadian communities but rushes to accommodate was written in Quebec City on November 28, 1996. It is addressed foreign banks? to Jean-Pierre Vaillancourt, the man responsible for the Commis- sion sur l’accès à l’information. Right Hon. Jean Chrétien (Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr. Speak- er, we have a committee studying the problem and we are waiting The writer was trying to find out exactly what became of the for the recommendations. A few months ago banks wanted to have billions that were spent, siphoned off, by Quebec finance minister, an approval right away and we said no, that they had to wait until Bernard Landry. As things stand, they have been refusing for two we had a report and that in the light of the report we would make a years— decision.
Mr. Richard Marceau: Answer the question. It was very clear. They wanted to have an answer in the month of February and we said ‘‘No, wait until we are ready and we will be Hon. Sheila Copps: —to give any information whatsoever, ready when the report comes to the government in the fall’’. while we have provided over 100 pages to the Parliament of Canada. Ms. Alexa McDonough (Halifax, NDP): Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister conveniently ignored the question about fast track- Mr. Richard Marceau: Troublemaker. ing foreign banks.
Hon. Sheila Copps: They are the troublemakers. If the financial services report is so important, why not defer the foreign banks issue as well until after the task force report? Ms. Hélène Alarie (Louis-Hébert, BQ): Mr. Speaker, the deeper one looks, the murkier it gets. Should we not consider foreign banks at the same that we consider the megabank merger? Why does the government not cool Through her bungling, is the minister taking part in the cover-up its jets on foreign banks legislation until after the financial services that has been going on since 1995 and that was the reason the task force report, or are the interests of Canadian citizens and auditor general said on January 20 that, as long as everything is not Canadian communities not as important to the government as the out in the open, it will not be clear whether we are dealing with a interests of foreign banks and financial elites? simple administrative oversight or real misappropriation of funds? Right Hon. Jean Chrétien (Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr. Speak- Hon. Sheila Copps (Minister of Canadian Heritage, Lib.): er, I do not know how the member concludes that sort of thing. At Mr. Speaker, once again, all this party wants to do is stir up trouble. this time she says she is opposed to the merger but she wants more competition. If she wants more competition we should look at the Mr. Richard Marceau: Give us an answer. possibility of having even more competition through accepting some foreign banks. Hon. Sheila Copps: If trouble is what they want, let them go to Minister Landry who, on December 19, 1996, used sections 19, 21, The committee is studying all that. If the member has some 22, 23, 24, 27, 37, 38 and 39 of the Access to Information Act to views to express she can go to the committee and her views, if they refuse to give any information whatsoever about the billions are good views, will be reflected when the committee of the House siphoned off for the sovereigntists’ shady Plan O. discusses these things.
* * * * * *
[English] PENSIONS
BANKING Mr. Mark Muise (West Nova, PC): Mr. Speaker, on February 3, I wrote to the hon. minister about a decision to change the Ms. Alexa McDonough (Halifax, NDP): Mr. Speaker, my employment status of fishers and subsequent demand for retroac- question is for the Prime Minister. tive CPP payments effective January 1, 1997. Subsequently I 282
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Oral Questions asked the minister to address this issue during question period. I Can the minister tell this House and people on the Tsuu T’ina even submitted another letter on March 12, yet there is no response. reserve why she is so opposed to a full public inquiry into the democratic, fiscal and social conditions on the Tsuu T’ina reserve? Will the minister here and now commit to removing this retroactivity request and agree to negotiate a more suitable imple- Hon. Sheila Copps (Minister of Canadian Heritage, Lib.): mentation date? Mr. Speaker, on the contrary, the minister of Indian affairs has not only engaged the Tsuu T’ina in the process, she has engaged the Hon. Ralph E. Goodale (Minister of Natural Resources and whole country in the process in terms of the follow-up to the Minister responsible for the Canadian Wheat Board, Lib.): Mr. aboriginal report on the royal commission. Speaker, on behalf of the Minister of Human Resources Develop- ment I assure the hon. gentleman that his representations are being If the member is really interested in healing and reconciliation given serious consideration by the minister. he might follow the advice of the leadership of the aboriginal community that has said this process should be allowed to carry on As I understand it, the minister has not been able to arrive at a in an independent fashion instead of pointing fingers in the way final conclusion on the matter but he does intend to respond to the that unfortunately the Reform Party has politicized this tragedy. member at the earliest opportunity. Mr. Mike Scott (Skeena, Ref.): Mr. Speaker, I wonder if the D (1130 ) minister is referring to the Liberal puppet.
Mr. Mark Muise (West Nova, PC): Mr. Speaker, in the The minister talks about responding to the royal commission’s meantime boat owners will have to fork out hundreds of thousands report. There were over 400 recommendations in that report and of dollars to pay Revenue Canada, leading to numerous layoffs. they have acted only a handful of them. There is not one shred of evidence that conditions on reserves in Canada are improving. The tax program is slated to end August 1998, leaving thousands There is plenty of evidence to suggest that conditions are getting of fishers and plant workers wondering how they are going to worse. survive. Both the Harrigan report and the standing committee on fisheries report recommend the creation of a new post-TAGS What are they trying to hide? Why will they not commit here and program. Is the minister of fisheries seriously considering the now to a full investigation into all the conditions on that reserve creation of a post-TAGS program? If so, in what timeframe can we that led to this terrible tragedy? expect a response? Hon. Sheila Copps (Minister of Canadian Heritage, Lib.): Hon. David Anderson (Minister of Fisheries and Oceans, Mr. Speaker, the tragic and sad thing is that the Reform Party does Lib.): Mr. Speaker, the member has raised an extremely important not understand what democracy really is. question which is being addressed by a committee of ministers headed up by the minister of human resources. Grand Chief Phil Fontaine was elected in a democratic election that was as democratic as the election that resulted in the member’s As the member is well aware, the issue is one that involves a unfortunate arrival in the House of Commons. large number of plant workers as well as a smaller number of actual fishermen. We hope we will be able to have that plan in place in good time before the expiry of the existing TAGS program in The member and his party would be well advised to look to the August of this year. root causes of the healing process instead of imposing on the Indian community a $1 billion cut in program funding, the kind of cut they recommended in their last discussion paper. * * * * * * ABORIGINAL AFFAIRS [Translation] Mr. Mike Scott (Skeena, Ref.): Mr. Speaker, in the wake of the tragic shooting on the Tsuu T’ina reserve we asked the Indian affairs minister to investigate the social conditions on that reserve, COMMISSION ON FUTURE OF MIRABEL AIRPORT the root cause of this tragedy and so much misery on reserves right across the country. Mr. Michel Guimond (Beauport—Montmorency—Orléans, BQ): Mr. Speaker, yesterday, March 26, the Tardif Commission The minister, in keeping with her department’s practice of denial began to hold its hearings. This commission was created by the and concealment, digs her heals in and refuses. Government of Quebec in order to work with the public in seeking 283
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Oral Questions potential solutions to the mess created by the federal government at According to his own coast guard studies, the risk of an oil spill Mirabel airport over the years. in Ontario is 13 times less likely than a spill in Quebec ports.
My question is for the Minister of Transport. Since ADM is not Why has he ignored his own experts, his own studies, just so he taking part in this commission, can the minister tell us why the can continue taxing B.C. and Ontario at four times the rate of federal government is not a full member of this commission, Quebec? although it was formally invited? Hon. David Anderson (Minister of Fisheries and Oceans, Hon. David M. Collenette (Minister of Transport, Lib.): Mr. Lib.): Mr. Speaker, the reason there is much less risk in Ontario Speaker, the hon. member is well aware that the responsibility of compared to the river in the Laurentian region is exactly the same Transport Canada toward the Montreal airports is restricted to reason that the fees are higher. There is much less oil shipped in matters of safety and security, and the administration of leases and that region. That is why there is much less risk. regulations. The hon. member should know that the amount of money in The regional development aspect is a matter for my colleague, question is approximately one-fifth of a cent a litre for the 300,000 the Secretary of State for Economic Development for the Regions tonnes of fuel which come into Ontario. He should also recognize of Quebec. He will be here Monday to answer questions. the impact of a major spill, if it occurred in the fresh water system in Ontario, what that might do to drinking water. He should At the present time, an observer has been appointed to the recognize that and get up in the House an apologize for his— Commission, and this person will act as an observer for Transport The Speaker: The hon. member for Prince George—Peace Canada and for my colleague’s Economic Development Agency for River. the Regions of Quebec. Mr. Jay Hill (Prince George—Peace River, Ref.): Mr. Speak- D (1135) er, what this minister needs to recognize is the importance of equity across this land. Mr. Michel Guimond (Beauport—Montmorency—Orléans, BQ): Mr. Speaker, they are passing the buck here. Ontario’s consumer minister has also written to the fisheries minister complaining about this discrimination. Let us call it what I remind the minister that the federal government’s responsibil- it is. He says that Ontario finds it unacceptable that the federal ity in this mess is obvious. government would consider a regime under which Ontario consum- ers would be required to subsidize consumers in other regions of If the government refuses to take part in the Tardif Commission, the country. after pouring more than $250 million into Pearson airport in Toronto, can it at least commit to creating a compensation fund to How many more people have to call this practice discriminatory facilitate getting Mirabel airport back on solid ground? That is all before the minister stops taxing Ontario and B.C. at four times the we are asking, not charity, just fair treatment. rate of Quebec?
Hon. David M. Collenette (Minister of Transport, Lib.): Mr. Hon. David Anderson (Minister of Fisheries and Oceans, Speaker, we are always getting questions about fair treatment from Lib.): Mr. Speaker, the hon. member and the other member from members of the Bloc Quebecois. the Reform who questioned this simply refuse to understand that in each region the costs are related to the charges made. There is no They refer to Toronto, which has indicated its intention to make subsidy from region to region, none whatsoever. safety and general improvements, as have Calgary and Edmonton. If these things are necessary for Mirabel and Dorval, we are It is entirely in Ontario. It is entirely private sector response prepared to consider such improvements being subsidized by the organizations that we are talking about. There is no question of federal government. taxation. If we were to risk having a major spill in the fresh waters of * * * Ontario without having adequate response organizations to take care of it we would be totally irresponsible, as is the Reform Party. [English] * * * SHIPPING [Translation] Mr. Jay Hill (Prince George—Peace River, Ref.): Mr. Speak- er, yesterday the fisheries minister tried to justify his discrimina- VARENNES TOKAMAK tion against B.C. and Ontario of taxing them at four times the rate in Quebec for oil shipping. He called it an insurance policy against Mr. Stéphane Bergeron (Verchères, BQ): Mr. Speaker, my oil spills. question is for the Minister of the Environment. 284
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Oral Questions A few weeks ago, the Minister of the Environment said, in TRANSPORT response to a question by my colleague from Rosemont, and I quote ‘‘the federal government is looking into investing more in Ms. Val Meredith (South Surrey—White Rock—Langley, renewable energies both in research and development and in our Ref.): Mr. Speaker, yesterday for the second time in a year the own energy consumption’’. same search and rescue Labrador helicopter had to ditch in the Strait of Georgia. How does the minister reconcile her statement with the fact that her government decided to cut by $7.2 billion its annual contribu- Fortunately for the six personnel aboard, the Labradors float tion to the Tokamak project in Varennes, which does research on better than they fly and no one was seriously injured. nuclear fusion, the most promising form of renewable energy? Are falling helicopters and automated lighthouses true reflec- [English] tions of this government’s commitment to west coast marine safety?
Hon. Christine Stewart (Minister of the Environment, Lib.): Hon. Arthur C. Eggleton (Minister of National Defence, Mr. Speaker, in the context of climate change the government is Lib.): Mr. Speaker, the Labrador did indeed ditch but there is only doing an analysis and review with all our partners to see how we as minor damage. I am also pleased to say that nobody was injured. a federal government can work with our partners to bring about There is a full investigation now going on. new measures to reduce greenhouse gases. We make sure that any aircraft we put in the air is as safe as it We will be looking at all the mechanisms available to the federal possibly can be. There are incidents that occur but we cut down on government. the possibility considerably by the fact that we have a high standard of maintenance. [Translation] The hon. member should also recognize that we have decided to Mr. Stéphane Bergeron (Verchères, BQ): Mr. Speaker, in this purchase new helicopters and some of these will be stationed on the issue, the federal government is saying it wants to encourage the west coast in B.C. development and marketing of *scCANDU*xx reactors, which are so unsafe that Ontario Hydro is forced to close a number of its Ms. Val Meredith (South Surrey—White Rock—Langley, reactors and contemplate using highly polluting generating sta- Ref.): Mr. Speaker, words are cheap and when it comes to tions. protecting Canada’s west coast so is this government.
D Falling helicopters, automated lighthouses, closing CFB Chilli- (1140) wack, snubbing B.C.’s Seaforth Highlanders for not being Cana- dian enough are examples of how this government really feels In the light of the agreements Canada signed in Rio and Kyoto, about British Columbia. will the minister acknowledge that the federal government has to reassess its strategies in the energy sector? Why does this government have more military personnel over- looking the Rideau Canal than it has on the west coast of this [English] country?
Hon. Ralph E. Goodale (Minister of Natural Resources and Hon. Arthur C. Eggleton (Minister of National Defence, Minister responsible for the Canadian Wheat Board, Lib.): Mr. Lib.): Mr. Speaker, that is simply not true. We have highly Speaker, it first needs to be made clear that the hon. gentleman’s professional and dedicated people in sufficient numbers to ensure references with respect to Candu are completely inaccurate and that the kind of service that needs to be provided in British false. Columbia by the Canadian forces is present in that province.
The problem in Ontario was related to the management of * * * Ontario Hydro. It had absolutely nothing to do with the technology of the Candu. In fact, the external consultants concluded that the [Translation] Candu reactor technology is safe and robust. HERBICIDES With respect to the need to expand in terms of renewable energy, alternative sources of energy, co-generation projects and so forth, Mr. René Laurin (Joliette, BQ): Mr. Speaker, rutabaga produc- indeed those are very much a part of our agenda to deal with ers have been using the herbicide DUAL according to the manufac- climate change— turer’s instructions.
The Speaker: The hon. member for South Surrey—White However, agronomists have confirmed that the use of this Rock—Langley. herbicide was the cause of their loss of over half a million dollars. 285
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Oral Questions What measures does the minister intend to take to prevent the Hon. Sheila Copps (Minister of Canadian Heritage, Lib.): use of this herbicide from continuing to cause considerable losses Mr. Speaker, obviously the member should take the time to read the to producers, who believe in the effectiveness of government government’s response to the royal commission. We are working controls? very hard with all of the players, including the leadership of the national organization and the regional organization. [English] An hon. member: More money for the chief. Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, the hon. member did not make clear the Hon. Sheila Copps: The member yells out ‘‘more money for the specific herbicide he was talking about. We certainly know there is chief’’. I find it passing strange that in the Reform Party’s last a registration program for herbicides to be used legally by produc- document on aboriginal peoples it planned on cutting $1 billion ers in Canada. If there is a problem with the registration of a from programming that was going to help with housing, help with specific herbicide I would certainly be pleased to know that and I fetal alcohol syndrome and help with a number of the social will work with the producers so they can have all the management problems they are facing. The Reform Party did not support the tools they can possibly have to be efficient and profitable. recommendations.
* * * Mr. Derrek Konrad (Prince Albert, Ref.): Mr. Speaker, this standoff and shooting, the Bruce Starlight affair and the poverty on TOURISM the Tsuu T’ina reserve are symptoms of ongoing problems that need a solution now. Ms. Susan Whelan (Essex, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, tourism is the major source of employment in all regions of our country. British My question is for the Minister of Indian Affairs. If she will not Columbia especially benefits from visitors from countries in Asia. appoint a judge, what specific recommendations from the royal commission will be used to solve the current crisis facing people on What is this Liberal government doing, in spite of the Asian the reserve? Will she act before the next tragedy occurs? financial crisis, to encourage travel and tourism and to create jobs in British Columbia? Hon. Sheila Copps (Minister of Canadian Heritage, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, this is the sad thing about the Reform Party. When Mr. Walt Lastewka (Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of there is a human tragedy it tries to exploit it for political purposes. Industry, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, as members know, the Canadian Tourism Commission, in partnership with the private sector, has I refer the Reform Party to an editorial in the Toronto Star where been working hard on tourism. Unfortunately some countries in it says: ‘‘It can be a short, frightening step from a police shooting Asia have had difficulty but countries like Taiwan and Singapore on a native reserve to an eruption of violent anger. That is why it is have held steady despite the financial crisis. heartening to see Ottawa and Alberta responding quickly in this week’s fatal shooting of a woman and her son’’. In addition, there have been projects approved in British Colum- bia. The latest project I know of is the Anderson—Knowles The Reform Party would be well advised to look at the broader agreement in the city of Prince Rupert to the tune of $250,000. issues and to try and work with aboriginal people instead of There is a Canadian Tourism Commission project of $1.25 million pointing the finger at a chief and individual and cutting a billion over three years for promoting tourism in British Columbia. dollars of programming from aboriginal peoples’ housing and social delivery. * * * * * * D (1145) [Translation] ABORIGINAL AFFAIRS
Mr. Darrel Stinson (Okanagan—Shuswap, Ref.): Mr. Speak- DISABILITY PENSIONS er, yesterday we asked the Indian affairs minister to appoint a judge to look into the tragic deaths on the Tsuu T’ina reserve near Mr. Yvon Godin (Acadie—Bathurst, NDP): Mr. Speaker, this Calgary. She ignored our suggestions. She said the government government is treating people living with disabilities in a heartless already had the Royal Commission on Aboriginal Peoples, and it manner. Bill C-2 will ensure that fewer and fewer Canadians did not have to investigate any more. That commission produced receive disability pensions. 400 recommendations but the report has been on the shelf gather- ing dust. Implementation of these regressive policies will ensure that thousands of Canadians will find themselves forced to wait close to What specific recommendations from that report is the govern- two years for a final decision on their applications for disability ment applying to the Tsuu T’ina reserve? pension. Enough is enough. 286
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Oral Questions My question is for the Prime Minister. When will this govern- I know the minister is involved in drawing up a new national ment stop taking advantage of the most vulnerable in society, and highways policy. start speeding up the process for obtaining disability pensions? I would like the minister to confirm whether there will be a [English] federal-provincial conference in connection with this new national policy. I would also like him to take a few seconds to indicate the Hon. Ralph E. Goodale (Minister of Natural Resources and importance he attaches to it. Minister responsible for the Canadian Wheat Board, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, in the last Parliament a very distinguished initiative was Hon. David M. Collenette (Minister of Transport, Lib.): Mr. led by a member of this government who is now the solicitor Speaker, the federal government has contributed to the construction general in producing a detailed analysis of many of the issues of highways since the first world war. affecting disabled Canadians. As the hon. member knows, Canadian highways are a provincial The results of that report were in evidence in the 1997 budget. responsibility. Discussions are going to be held with my provincial They were in evidence again in the 1998 budget. The government counterparts on a plan for continuation of funding. In May, a takes those issues seriously. Many, many disabled organizations in meeting will be held in Edmonton to discuss this. this country have applauded these initiatives on behalf of disabled Canadians. Mr. André Harvey (Chicoutimi, PC): Mr. Speaker, in a speech last November 17 in Toronto, the minister stated that he was in * * * favour of new major national toll-free highway projects and an examination of the potential for constructive collaboration between the federal, provincial and private sector. NATIONAL DEFENCE I would like the minister to indicate to me if, for instance, he Mr. Gordon Earle (Halifax West, NDP): Mr. Speaker, my considers it important to upgrade the highway between the metro- question is for the Minister of National Defence. politan Quebec and Saguenay—Lac-Saint-Jean regions, as a major pilot project, thus allowing us to link two large and important The alternative service delivery process of the Department of regions of this country? Unfortunately, the Government of Quebec National Defence has wreaked havoc on the community of Goose is still turning a deaf ear to any new approach. Bay, Labrador. Will the minister place a moratorium on any further ASD activity until there has been an audit by the auditor general Hon. David M. Collenette (Minister of Transport, Lib.): Mr. and a thorough assessment by the Standing Committee on National Speaker, I am well aware of the very specific concerns the hon. Defence and Veterans Affairs of the social and economic impact on member has about highway 175 in his riding. the communities where ASD has already taken place? Provinces have priorities, the province of Quebec in this case, Hon. Arthur C. Eggleton (Minister of National Defence, but I am sure that partnerships in highway construction will be Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I do not agree with the preamble to the considered. question. What is at stake here is the survival of Goose Bay and we have been able to save it. We have been able to cut our costs down I believe it is a good idea to involve the private sector in their to make the operation more efficient and effective and at the same construction, and I am pleased that the hon. member supports the time to treat people in a fair and humane way. That is what this is concept of partnering with the private sector to build highways. about. We have less resources now in national defence. We want to make sure that we use those resources for our core functions and that we use those resources in the most efficient and effective way. * * * That is what we are doing here and that is what we will continue to [English] do in other parts of the country.
D (1150) FORESTRY
We will consult with our employees. We will consult with the Mr. Benoît Serré (Timiskaming—Cochrane, Lib.): Mr. unions. We will make sure we do it in a fair and humane way. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Natural Resources. British Columbia’s forest industry is in trouble. Logging levels * * * and foreign exports are down. B.C. mills and workers are idle.
[Translation] What is the federal government doing to address these issues facing this most important Canadian industry? HIGHWAYS Hon. Ralph E. Goodale (Minister of Natural Resources and Mr. André Harvey (Chicoutimi, PC): Mr. Speaker, my ques- Minister responsible for the Canadian Wheat Board, Lib.): Mr. tion is for the Minister of Transport. Speaker, forestry management practices per se are a provincial 287
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Oral Questions responsibility but there is an important federal role particularly The Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans has requested with respect to science and technology and trade. that the closing of the coast guard radio station in the Magdalen Islands scheduled for March 31 be postponed. I am happy to say that typically the Government of Canada invests its natural resources research budget on a regional basis. Given that no serious study has shown the closing to be justified, With respect to science and technology, 16% in total flows to the is the minister prepared to postpone this closing and take the time province of British Columbia. Last year it was $34 million for to consult with fishers and those who use the station? important projects.
On trade, I am working with the industry, with union leadership, [English] with the province and with foreign governments and buyers to secure the greatest amount of market access for British Columbia Hon. David Anderson (Minister of Fisheries and Oceans, forest products, access that is not only stable for the present time Lib.): Mr. Speaker, before the decision was made some months ago but growing for the future. we carried out extensive consultations with all stakeholders. We also did an extensive analysis of the technology involved. In this instance there is no loss of jobs. People will be moved as we * * * consolidate at Rivière-au-Renard.
TAXATION While I respect the committee’s report, in essence it came too Mr. Eric Lowther (Calgary Centre, Ref.): Mr. Speaker, studies late to vary the decision that was made. show how important the parent-child bond is for the long term health of Canadian children. A national poll indicated that 94% of Canadians are concerned about the lack of time they have to spend * * * with their offspring.
Many parents would like to stay home and raise their children if ATOMIC ENERGY OF CANADA LIMITED they could afford to do it, but this government overtaxes them if they do. Only third party child care expenses can be deducted and Mr. Pat Martin (Winnipeg Centre, NDP): Mr. Speaker, at this the last budget increased this by 35% while ignoring homemakers. very moment, 250 workers at AECL Pinawa are being handed this letter which says ‘‘It is with sincere regret that I inform you that When will this government stop its discriminatory tax policies your employment with AECL will terminate on March 31, 1998’’. which undermine many Canadian families? This is every worker’s worst nightmare. The layoff freeze lifted on Wednesday. On Friday they get their pink slips. On Tuesday Hon. Jim Peterson (Secretary of State (International Finan- another 250 Canadians will be out on the street. cial Institutions), Lib.): Mr. Speaker, we understand that this is a priority of many members of this House. The sale of AECL has been delayed. What is the urgency to We have to recognize that we have taken steps in past budgets in dump these workers with one day’s notice? What happened to the order to recognize the very real burden that homes bear, particular- election promises that Ottawa would take care of these workers? ly those where one person is working and another is not. For What is the minister doing to help these workers whose lives are example in our last budget we took 400,000 taxpayers right off the being turned upside down by this government’s downsizing frenzy? roles. We reduced the taxes for 14 million Canadians, or 90% of all taxpayers. Through the national child tax benefit we are putting Hon. Ralph E. Goodale (Minister of Natural Resources and funds directly into the area where we think they are most needed, to Minister responsible for the Canadian Wheat Board, Lib.): Mr. those families where— Speaker, it was less than a week ago that this very member asked me in this House to ensure that the workers who would be laid off D (1155) at Pinawa would be protected under the government’s early retirement incentive program. In order to make sure those workers The Speaker: The hon. member for Matapédia—Matane. were protected under that program it was a legal requirement that they be notified with respect to their layoff status no later than March 31. * * *
[Translation] The notices which have been served are for the very purpose of ensuring that the affected workers can benefit from the maximum COAST GUARD RADIO STATION amount of protection available under the programs of AECL and under the early retirement incentive program. Mr. René Canuel (Matapédia—Matane, BQ): Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans. The Speaker: The hon. member for St. John’s West. 288
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Oral Questions FISHERIES I am pleased to advise the House today that there will be two adjustments to pay made for our services personnel effective April Mr. Charlie Power (St. John’s West, PC): Mr. Speaker, the 1. One deals with a catch-up with public service salary rates of recent fisheries committee report recommended that Canada ‘‘im- 1.2% and the other is an economic increase of some 2%. mediately adopt a position that there are no fish in excess of Canada’s needs anywhere inside of our 200-mile zone on either This means that over the past two years, accumulatively, the coast’’. Under present international agreements this government is increases have been 9.3% for non-commissioned members and still trading away Canadian fish and with them, Canadian jobs. 9.4% for general service officers.
Will the minister of fisheries immediately accept this recom- * * * mendation? Will he table a list of all international agreements that involve the trading away of Canadian fish? RAILWAYS Hon. David Anderson (Minister of Fisheries and Oceans, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, the policy of the government is to Canadianize Mr. Lee Morrison (Cypress Hills—Grasslands, Ref.): Mr. to the greatest extent possible our eastern Canadian fisheries. As a Speaker, I share the concerns of Canadian taxpayers who cannot result we have moved the foreign take within the 200-mile limit help but wonder if the ministerial musings of the Minister of from over 380,000 tonnes down to approximately 2,000 tonnes in Transport about the need for public-private partnerships to revital- the most recent year. In other words it is now half to one per cent of ize the passenger rail system might be just another excuse to what it previously was. scratch the back of a Liberal friendly company.
There is no fishing by any foreign vessel within our 200-mile I would like to know just what the plans on the table are for a limit unless Canadians have been offered those fish. Only when sweetheart deal for that perpetual Liberal darling, Bombardier. they refuse is that fishery opened up to foreign vessels under international agreements. They are the same international agree- Hon. David M. Collenette (Minister of Transport, Lib.): Mr. ments that allow us— Speaker, the hon. member’s imagination is running away with itself. The Speaker: The hon. member for Pontiac—Gatineau—La- He is a member of the Standing Committee on Transport which belle. is looking at this very issue. The government does not have a fixed agenda. * * * What we want is to make sure that the passenger rail system in [Translation] Canada is financed in such a way that we can continue the high standards we have had over recent years, while allowing the taxpayers to get off the hook in terms of the refinancing of capital NATIONAL DEFENCE projects such as rolling stock.
Mr. Robert Bertrand (Pontiac—Gatineau—Labelle, Lib.): If the hon. member has any ideas, he should present them at the Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of National Defence. committee. I know there are lots of companies that would be interested in this change. During the January ice storm, Canadians again saw the exempla- ry work of our soldiers. During its hearings, however, the Standing * * * Committee on National Defence and Veterans Affairs was in- formed that their salaries were not high enough to meet their families’ basic needs. POINTS OF ORDER
What is the Liberal government doing to ensure that members of BIG BOB the armed forces are adequately paid? Mrs. Claudette Bradshaw (Moncton, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I rise D (1200) on a point of order. It is Friday and we have a staff person upstairs, Big Bob, who is retiring today. I thought it would be nice for the [English] Chamber to wish him good luck. He has been excellent to us and to the staff. I thought, since it is Friday, we might want to wish him all Hon. Arthur C. Eggleton (Minister of National Defence, the best. Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I applaud the hon. member and the committee for the fine work they are doing. The government is listening. Some hon. members: Hear, hear. 289
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Routine Proceedings ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS The first petition calls upon Parliament to support the immediate initiation and conclusion by the year 2000 of an international convention to set out a binding timetable for the abolition of all [Translation] nuclear weapons.
ORDER IN COUNCIL APPOINTMENTS GOODS AND SERVICES TAX
Mr. Peter Adams (Parliamentary Secretary to Leader of the Mr. Bill Gilmour (Nanaimo—Alberni, Ref.): Mr. Speaker, in Government in the House of Commons, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I am the second petition the petitioners call upon Parliament to remove very pleased to table in the House today, in both official languages, the GST from books, magazines and newspapers. They also ask the a number of Order in Council appointments which were made Prime Minister to carry out his party’s repeated promise to remove recently by the government. the federal sales tax from reading materials.
Pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order 110(1), these are PROSTATE CANCER deemed referred to the appropriate standing committees, a list of which is attached. Mr. John Cummins (Delta—South Richmond, Ref.): Mr. Speaker, I have a petition from people in my constituency who * * * want to draw to the attention of Parliament the fact that one in eight men will suffer from prostate cancer and that one-third of those D (1205) sufferers will die of the disease. It is noted here that the cost of treating prostate cancer in men is GOVERNMENT RESPONSE TO PETITIONS approximately $250 billion annually and that some of the best Mr. Peter Adams (Parliamentary Secretary to Leader of the research is being done in very inadequate circumstances. Government in the House of Commons, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, It is noted, as well, that the opinion of several Vancouver pursuant to Standing Order 36(8), I have the honour to table, in researchers is that $1 per Canadian is not too much to ask for both official languages, the government’s response to 15 petitions. prostate cancer research. It would go a long way toward defeating the disease. * * * * * * HOUSE COMMITTEES [Translation]
JUSTICE AND HUMAN RIGHTS QUESTIONS ON THE ORDER PAPER Mr. John McKay (Scarborough East, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I Mr. Peter Adams (Parliamentary Secretary to Leader of the have the honour to present, in both official languages, the sixth Government in the House of Commons, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, report of the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights. today we will be answering Question No. 5. [English] [Text]
Pursuant to the order of reference of Tuesday, November 4, Question No. 5—Mr. Chuck Strahl: 1997, your committee has considered Bill C-3, an act respecting With regard to the moment when chronometers in all federal Government DNA identification and to make consequential amendments to the information systems change from the year 1999 to the year 2000, (a) what is now Criminal Code and other acts. Your committee has agreed to report being done and what will be done to prepare for this moment, (b) can the government assure the public that there will be no loss of data, no interruption in it with amendments. service or other systems malfunction, and (c) what is the estimated cost ensuring that computers will be able to cope effectively with the change of millennium? May I add that this was an all-party committee and that all members of the House worked very hard on the report. Hon. Marcel Massé (President of the Treasury Board and Minister responsible for Infrastructure, Lib.): a) The federal * * * government has defined the year 2000 compliance issue as a high government priority and is working aggressively on all fronts to monitor the level of year 2000 readiness within departments, PETITIONS implement common initiatives and encourage action. NUCLEAR WEAPONS In 1996, the chief information officer, CIO, project office was established within Treasury Board secretariat, TBS, to co-ordinate Mr. Bill Gilmour (Nanaimo—Alberni, Ref.): Mr. Speaker, and monitor activity across all federal government departments and pursuant to Standing Order 36 I am pleased to present two petitions agencies. In September of 1997, a government industry task force from concerned citizens in my riding of Nanaimo—Alberni. was formed under the Minister of Industry to help Canadian 290
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Government Orders industry address this unique challenge. The task force is chaired by On December 2 Question No. 56 was asked, again concerning Jean Monty, chief executive officer of Nortel, and includes repre- the Oak Bay Marine Group. I wonder when I can expect a response sentatives from a number of key economic sectors including on those matters. banking, insurance, transportation, manufacturing, telecommu- nications, information technology, small and medium size busi- Mr. Peter Adams: Mr. Speaker, I have noted the numbers that ness, agriculture, and the retail and service sectors. the member mentioned and I will look into it as quickly as I can. I would point out that we have received roughly 800 questions to The CIO year 2000 project office has completed two comprehen- this point. We have replied to well over half of them, but I sive, government-wide surveys and a third one is in progress. The understand the member’s concern and I will look into it as soon as I results of the second survey indicate that all departments are aware can. of the issue and all departments with government-wide mission Mr. John Cummins: Mr. Speaker, there is a deadline for critical, GWMC, systems have active year 2000 plans in place. responding to questions. Additionally, the level of readiness within government is consistent with accepted industry standards, and many departments are even I have another question, Question No. 51, which was asked on further advanced. December 1, 1997. We asked for a list of aboriginal groups which received communal fishing licences or other authorization to fish, excluding commercial fishing licences of the same type issued to b) The CIO year 2000 project office is committed to ensuring all Canadian commercial fleets in British Columbia and I have had that key federal government systems will continue the delivery of no response to that one as well. essential services to the Canadian public and its businesses, beyond the year 2000. Defined as government-wide mission critical, D (1210 ) GWMC, these systems have a direct impact on the health, safety, security and economic well-being of Canadians, and are the Mr. Peter Adams: Mr. Speaker, I have noted Questions Nos. 31, government’s first priority. 56 and 51. I will do my best to see what is happening to them. The Acting Speaker (Mr. McClelland): Is it agreed that the Departments are responsible for all year 2000 repair, testing and remaining questions be allowed to stand? replacement work of their systems, but in order to ensure that there is no interruption of services, departments will be asked to provide Some hon. members: Agreed. full contingency plans for any systems that are deemed at possible risk by fall of 1998. At present, however, the focus and number one ______priority of the government is to ensure that departments complete the necessary repair and replacement work on GWMC systems. GOVERNMENT ORDERS c) The Government of Canada recognizes that not addressing the year 2000 challenge could result in significant costs to Canadian [English] taxpayers. Treasury Board secretariat estimates that the price tag for federal government year 2000 compliance will be $1 billion. CANADA GRAIN ACT The total federal information tehcnology, IT, budget is $3 billion to The House resumed consideration of the motion that Bill C-26, $4 billion annually and it is anticipated that the majority of the $1 an act to amend the Canada Grain Act and the Agriculture and billion required for the year 2000 effort is being drawn from Agri-Food Administrative Monetary Penalties Act and to repeal the existing budgets during the conversion period. Grain Futures Act, be read the second time and referred to a committee. [Translation] The Acting Speaker (Mr. McClelland): When debate was suspended the hon. member for Prince George—Peace River had Mr. Peter Adams: I suggest that the other questions be allowed approximately 16 minutes remaining on his time. to stand. Mr. Jay Hill (Prince George—Peace River, Ref.): Mr. Speak- er, when I was interrupted by question period I was relating to the [English] House the potential magnitude of the Palliser Grain receivership disaster and I was trying to enlighten some members. Mr. John Cummins (Delta—South Richmond, Ref.): Mr. I know from the heckling that constantly comes every time I Speaker, I have some answers which are long overdue. On October stand to speak in this Chamber that there are some members across 28 Question No. 31 was asked, which was regarding the dropping the way who do not wish to be enlightened about what farmers are of charges against the minister’s friends in the Oak Bay Marine saying in Saskatchewan, Alberta or anywhere else for that matter. Group. That answer is still outstanding. They have a problem with it. 291
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Government Orders I was relating the story about the Saskatchewan forum which The reason why I am relaying this story is directly linked to one was hosted by the eight Reform MPs from that province. I was of the major reasons for Bill C-26, the whole issue of grain buyers approached in my role as the official opposition agriculture critic. and grain buying companies carrying insurance against the disaster I was approached by a number of farmers who had concerns about of having gone broke or having gone into receivership, and whether the Palliser Grain Company going into receivership. the responsibility should rest entirely with the farmers or if there is some inherent responsibility on the part of government to carry some of that risk. Some of these farmers are facing very substantial losses if they are not covered by the existing bond or if they are not covered by a trust fund that has been set up for some deferred payments and One of the points I made during my speech is that under the which we have scanty details about. present way that Bill C-26 is structured there will be no competi- tion in providing that insurance. The farmers who have approached me are quite concerned about the future risk of premiums being I would like to explain the process for deferred payments. When increased. They are also concerned about the fact that it is a levy. farmers deliver their product—and this applies to special crops as Although the parliamentary secretary said that it is voluntary, there well as other commodities—they can defer payment to sometime are hoops that the farmer has to jump through. He has to wait until in the future. It helps them to regulate their cash flow and even it the end of the year to opt out. He has to maintain his records to see out in different parts of the year. exactly how much levy he has paid. He then has to total this up and request that money he paid into the levy fund from the governing My understanding is that under the present regulations, in order body. to be covered, the maximum amount of time a farmer can have his product stored with a company is 90 days. Then they have up to 30 days to cash the cheque. They basically have 120 days in which to While it is technically true that it is a voluntary process, it is, as I get paid. If they do not fall within that framework of 120 days, in said in my speech, really negative option billing. The farmer has no other words, if their product has been in storage for longer than that choice because it is deducted off his cheque when he actually sells period of time, when a company goes into receivership it is his product to the special grains buying agent. questionable whether they will receive remuneration for their stored products. I would just like to sum up by saying that the official opposition is constantly in a bit of a quandary when it comes to supporting or Furthermore, my understanding is that government changed the opposing certain pieces of legislation. All Canadians recognize that rules in or about August 1995. Prior to that farmers were covered most of the legislation that is placed before this House has certain up to one year if they had products stored with a company. That good merits to it. However, we are constantly having to decide was changed and shortened to 120 days. whether it is more than 50% good or more than 50% bad and what position we should take.
It brings to light this issue: Is the onus entirely on the farmer to ensure that when he sells his product to a company he is going to be I do not have the exact numbers but I think in the last Parliament, covered in this type of situation? Or is there some responsibility on which was the first Parliament for me as a member of Parliament, the part of government to ensure that the farmer is made aware that the Reform Party supported the government’s legislation about half these types of changes have taken place or that there is some the time. It may be a little more or a little less, but I think it was increased risk involved with deferring payment? half the time. I believe we ended up supporting about half the bills that came through this place.
It brings to light the whole issue of the buyer beware type of scenario. In this case we have the situation of seller beware, where In this case, as I relayed in my opening remarks on Bill C-26, we the farmer has to recognize the extent of the risk he is taking. are caught in the middle of this at this point in time. We are not sure whether to support it right now. There are some good things in it. As the parliamentary secretary indicated in his remarks, farmers, D (1215 ) grain buyers and other stakeholders in the industry have been requesting this for quite some time. Whether this is the exact approach to take we do not know at this point. We are certainly In fairness to the farmers in the Palliser Grain situation, it is interested in getting a lot more feedback as we go through the quite likely a lot of them did not understand that the insurance bond process. which Palliser Grain was required under legislation to carry did not cover them past the 120 days. It is certainly my hope and I believe the hope of all members that the issue can be resolved favourably Some of these comments which I have quoted from the various for the farmers and that the trust fund which was set up for deferred organizations and farmers run exactly opposite to each other but I payments will be sufficient to cover all those farmers who had wanted to demonstrate to members of this House that we as product on storage with Palliser. parliamentarians have our work cut out for us with Bill C-26. The 292
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Government Orders feedback represents only a fraction of the input that we can expect That is to say a document in prescribed form issued in receipt of to receive on this legislation. Yet it is already obvious that there is a grain delivered, subject to certain conditions contained therein or great deal of skilful legislative work required. in the Canada Grain Act.
—or grain receipts against the refusal or failure of licensees to meet their payment We will need to carefully listen, thoroughly examine, look for or delivery obligations under the receipt or ticket. compromise and, in the end, be able to tell farmers that we have done our jobs and done our jobs well. If such a regime were to become law, this would allow a licence holder with an elevator operator or grain dealer licence to receive D (1220 ) statutory levies from producers delivering special crops.
This is what I want to tell the farmers when Bill C-26 completes He would then remit the levies to the agent, who would use them its journey through the parliamentary process. I hope this govern- to pay any premiums owed to the insurer, any expenses related to ment does not make that effort a futile one. the administration of the insurance plan and any remuneration or reimbursement of expenses to which a member of the Special [Translation] Crops Advisory Committee may be entitled under subsection 49.02(4). Ms. Hélène Alarie (Louis-Hébert, BQ): Mr. Speaker, I rise to speak to Bill C-26, an act to amend the Canada Grain Act and the The difficulty lies in section 49.02, which consists of four Agriculture and Agri-Food Administrative Monetary Penalties Act subsections setting out how the advisory committee is to be and to repeal the Grain Futures Act. formed. The first subsection allows the minister to establish an advisory committee by naming nine members for a renewable term not exceeding three years. Is this not a way of making political As the new agriculture and agri-food critic for my party, I want appointments? to assure you that I will certainly be separating the wheat from the chaff. D (1225) We are again debating a bill that concerns only part of Canada, the prairies. What, however, is at the heart of this bill? The summary of the text reads as follows, and I quote: Would it not be better for these positions to be elected ones, especially since the committee is mandated to present recommen- This enactment establishes a licensing system and an insurance plan for the dations regarding the designation of special crops and the selection special crops industry in Western Canada. It provides for the licensing of all buyers of a person or organization as agent or insurer, and to advise the of special crops and for the voluntary participation of producers in the insurance minister on any other issues concerning special crops? This could plan, which protects them against default of payment for special crops by licensees. Outstanding payments for standard crops will continue to be protected by security easily become a conflict of interest. given by standard crops dealers to the Canadian Grain Commission (CGC). Moreover, the majority of the members of the committee must After a summary examination of this highly technical and be ‘‘special crops producers who are not special crops dealers, specialized bill, I will most certainly be a participant in the debate grain dealers or operators of primary elevators’’. In other words, bearing in mind the best interests of farmers and farming and they cannot be traders. I add this comment because the wording of recognizing that this bill does not concern Quebec farmers. This is the bill in French is rather ambiguous on this. the reason my speech will be brief. I am not particularly concerned with a matter that is of interest only to western farmers. I feel quite outside this debate, particularly having heard the previous In addition, members’s remuneration is also fixed by the minis- speeches, including that of my predecessor, the member for Prince ter. The agent must also reimburse them for any reasonable travel George—Peace River. and living expenses incurred by them in the course of their duties while absent from their ordinary places of residence. The most important clause in this bill is clause 7. This clause provides for the establishment of an insurance plan, and I quote: It can be seen that a number of questions arise concerning clause 7, particularly subsection 49.02 and its paragraphs. Other clauses —to insure producers of special crops who are holders of cash purchase tickets— also require some clarification, and this will be forthcoming, I trust, before we vote on this bill. That is to say a document in prescribed form issued in receipt of grain delivered to a process elevator or grain dealer and entitling the holder of the document to payment by the operator or dealer. I will, therefore, be on the lookout for the slightest comment from farmers on this bill, for they are the ones who must benefit —elevator receipts— from it first and foremost. 293
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Government Orders
[English] D (1230)
Mr. Pat Martin (Winnipeg Centre, NDP): Mr. Speaker, I am We believe that farmers responded very creatively to this pleased to speak on Bill C-26, legislation to amend the Canada situation. One way in which they did so was to diversify into peas, Grain Act and the Agriculture and Agri-Food Administrative lentils, sunflower seeds and other special crops. We in the NDP Monetary Penalties Act and to repeal the Grain Futures Act. caucus are most supportive of any measures that will enhance the ability of farmers to prosper from growing and marketing their special crops. This legislation makes amendments to two acts and repeals a third. It is really a rather detailed and complex piece of legislation. In briefings from the minister of agriculture’s staff we were told We also support measures that would put the entire special crops this bill is of a non-controversial and only housekeeping nature. industry on a firmer financial footing. The government claims the But looking closely at it we found something very negative and legislation will do that but my caucus and I are not convinced that it unsavoury about the bill. will.
The bill will now go to committee and frankly if we do not see The questions that have to be asked are these. Does the legisla- some changes at that stage our party will have no choice but to vote tion benefit farmers and the entire special crops industry? If there against the bill at third reading. are benefits, what will they ultimately cost? The answers to these questions give us great cause for concern. At the outset I seriously question whether this legislation is really what the special crops industry wants. The minister has Bill C-26 is based on a number of premises. One of them is that provided us with some information that indicates a long period of the businesses which most often purchase special crops from consultation on this question, and in fact the consultations go way farmers are small firms that are frequently not licensed. The reason back to 1993 and straddled the last federal election. posited for this is that the security required from special crops dealers in order to cover their payment obligation to producers has forced small companies to avoid taking out licences. One might well ask what has changed in the past five years, and we ask whether these old and dated assumptions are a true reflection of what farmers and the industry truly wants today. In turn, this puts the producers who sell to these companies at risk if a company goes bankrupt or cannot meet its payment. A further argument is that this uncertainty has limited the potential Before I get to what we consider to be the major defects of Bill growth of the industry because it has prevented farmers from C-26 I will summarize the government’s stated intent for the getting into special crop production in a bigger way. The larger legislation. First, we were told these amendments to the Canada elevator companies that buy grains like wheat and barley naturally Grain Act are intended to set up a licensing system for those are licensed by the Canadian Grain Commission. Of course this is businesses that purchase special crops from farmers. important to Canada’s reputation as a reliable supplier of high quality grain. Second, the legislation would allow creation of an insurance plan for the special crops industry. Third, the bill would repeal the Grain The grain commission has the power to ensure that these large Futures Act, allowing responsibility for regulating the Winnipeg companies are always in a position to meet their payments to Commodity Exchange to revert to the Manitoba Securities Com- farmers who sell to them. The commission also has the power to mission. The exchange is now regulated by the Canadian Grain ask companies to secure bonds and can impose penalties on Commission. companies should they renege on these payments to farmers.
Bill C-26 applies only to western Canada because it relates to the The argument is made that regulations which make sense for jurisdiction exercised by the Grain commission in administering large grain companies are not appropriate for smaller companies the Canada Grain Act, which does not generally apply in eastern that purchase special crops. For example, the government says that Canada. This legislation applies to special crops. These crops Bill C-26 would remove the onus on special crop dealers to post include beans, buckwheat, peas, corn, faba beans, lentils, mustard costly bonds against the possibility of their defaulting in payments seed, safflower, soybeans and sunflower seed. to producers. It has been argued that this is difficult, if not impossible, for small companies to post large security bonds and Special crops are of growing importance to farmers and to the that consequently many of them simply are not licensed. economy of western Canada. The so-called grain wars of the 1980s are painful memories in the minds of many farmers. The United Bill C-26 proposes a licensing system for these smaller compa- States and the European community used their immense treasuries nies. In return for their being licensed they would not have to post to subsidize the production and sale of wheat and other major large security bonds. The legislation also allows the Canadian grains. This subsidization drove down world prices and drove Grain Commission to impose penalties and fines on these smaller thousands of western Canadian farmers off their land. companies for violations of the Canada Grain Act. 294
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Government Orders The legislation allows the grain commission to be more flexible piggybacking the other check-offs farmers pay. This time it is for and less punitive in the way it treats smaller grain companies in special crops. the event that they contravene the Canada Grain Act. All this is in addition to the millions of dollars being collected by The government says that a system of licensing developed government from farmers in the name of cost recovery. Farmers are specifically for the purchasers of special crops will encourage paying twice for the increasing number of services they need: once development of the industry. We in the NDP support the develop- through their taxes and again through cost recovery. These are ment of the industry but question whether the legislation will some of the problems we see with these measures. achieve that end. Our caucus urges the minister to scrap his plans for this negative A second and related component of the legislation is a program option insurance plan in the special crops industry. I will read with that will insure farmers against non-payment by the businesses great alarm some material from the minister’s office dated Novem- buying their special crops. The government says that the program ber 7, 1997. Page 4 of that document reads ‘‘The insurance plan is voluntary but in actual fact it is not. It is here that we begin to could serve as a model for standard crops in the future and could have some serious problems and I would like to go into them in lead to a producer funded insurance system for all crops produced some detail. in western Canada’’.
In clause 7 of the bill the government decrees that all special Rather than listening to the opposition to the plan, the minister crops producers must pay an insurance levy on all crops sold to seems to feel it is some kind of model or prototype he would like to licensed dealers. Farmers have to pay this levy. Whether or not they expand from special crops to standard crops in the future. This is want to participate in the insurance program they have to pay this seriously alarming to our caucus. check off at source. They have no choice about this. We sincerely hope the minister is not planning to extend his The government calls this a voluntary insurance program, but it special crops insurance plan to all grains in western Canada. Surely is anything but voluntary if it is a mandatory contribution at the he cannot be so out of touch that he would propose an entirely front end. In fact it amounts to sort of a negative option billing plan producer funded and negative option insurance program on all in actual fact, the same kind of plan that outraged Canadians when grains. If the minister attempts to do this we suggest that he will cable television companies tried to implement this a few years face an out and out revolt by farmers. back. Bill C-26 repeals the Grain Futures Act which clears the way for Farmers will have to provide notice at the beginning of the crop the Manitoba Securities Commission to assume responsibility for year if they do not want to belong to this insurance plan. Even if regulating the Winnipeg Commodity Exchange. The exchange they give that notice in writing farmers still have to pay the wants to trade commodities other than grains and wants the insurance levy at the front end. It is only at the end of the crop year regulatory system to reflect this reality. and after doing a lot of paperwork and legal wrangling that farmers would get their money back. This is a logical request. It is time for the province of Manitoba to be given power to regulate the exchange rather than have it done As I understand it, they will not receive interest on the money by the Canadian Grain Commission as the case has been. We being held by the government that they paid at the front end and support this part of the legislation but it is unfortunately bundled have to wait to be refunded at the back end. This type of negative with a larger legislative package that we cannot accept in its option billing is simply unacceptable to farmers. present form.
D When he introduced Bill C-26 last December the minister said (1235 ) that it would provide a boon to rural economic development. I do not believe that a negative option insurance program will create Our agriculture critic is already getting calls of protest from rural economic development. Nothing in the arguments put forward farmers who are beginning to twig to how the plan is really by the government to date has altered that point of view on our part. unfolding. We are not satisfied that these measures are really what the industry wants or needs. Certainly it is not what the farmers Let us look beyond the bill and ask what the government is doing who have been coming forward want or need. to promote rural Canada. We need to look no further than the budget that was introduced in the House on February 24. The Bill C-4 proposes a check-off on grain deliveries to pay for a budget speech was entirely silent on agriculture. It is significant to wheat board contingency fund. The proposed fund is extremely note that the minister spoke for 90 minutes and did not once utter unpopular with farmers. They cannot afford the check-off. They do the word agriculture. I find that very revealing. In a 275 page not see the need for it. They do not want to pay for it. Now the same budget document which was tabled as he spoke there were a mere government is proposing yet another check-off, compounding and 16 lines about rural Canada. Most of that space was devoted to 295
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Government Orders reminding us that the minister had provided additional money to opposite they are say no way. This is happening all over Saskatche- the Farm Credit Corporation, not this year but last year. wan.
The only current agricultural spending mentioned in the budget The reason for Bill C-26 is that farmers are trying to make a speech is $20 million spread over five years throughout several living from the traditional wheat crop. They are trying their best. government departments. The federal government spending in They are doing everything to make a penny out of it. The support of the agriculture and agri-food sector has declined drasti- government, like the hon. member just said, never mentioned the cally throughout this decade. This year’s budget confirms even word agriculture in the throne speech debate. The most dynamic further cuts. and still the major industry, not only in Saskatchewan but in western Canada, never received one word of mention. The Liberals are dismantling rural Canada, closing post offices and allowing the railways to double freight rates on grain and to Now the government has come up with Bill C-26. Farmers in the tear up their branchlines. They have forgotten rural Canadians. west are disillusioned. They feel betrayed. They have been betrayed by the crow rate, by the railways and by their own grain One might ask what the minister of agriculture has been doing to companies. Farmers feel betrayed by the government. They could represent the interests of rural Canadians at the cabinet table. The not care less right now about Bill C-26. answer would appear to be not very much. Now he is promoting a negative option insurance plan as a project for rural development. What they do care about is some way to pay their bills. Ranchers Not only that. He is saying he might extend such a plan to cover all are asking for some way for them to pay for the increase of grazing grains grown and marketed in western Canada. land. Farmers are asking for a way to return to farms that have been in their families for three and four generations. There is no hope. In all of this the minister is trying to pass Bill C-26 off as a mere The government has provided no hope. housekeeping bill. It is much more than that. Unless there are significant changes to the bill we will work against it and we will In the town in which I live the elevators will be gone by the year vote against it. 2000. The four curling rinks which surround the town have been closed. The government should realize that Bill C-26 does not D (1240 ) address the problem of ongoing depopulation in much of rural Saskatchewan. Mr. Bob Kilger (Stormont—Dundas, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. There have been discussions with representa- I can only compare it to another era in Saskatchewan, the dirty tives of all parties and I believe you would find consent for the thirties when people simply gave up and moved out. Because of the following motion: policies of the government and because of lack of planning by the government, the same thing is taking place now. It is a disaster, but That, at the conclusion of today’s debate on a motion for second reading of Bill C-26, the question shall be deemed put and adopted on division. we have not hit the worst of it yet. The worst is yet to come.
The Acting Speaker (Mr. McClelland): The House has heard In two years my daughter and her family will live over 80 miles the motion. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? away from the closest delivery point for grain. Over one-third of the cost of that ticket by the time they pay for the truck goes to freight. Some hon. members: Agreed.
(Motion agreed to) D (1245)
Mr. Roy Bailey (Souris—Moose Mountain, Ref.): Mr. Speak- Please, hon. parliamentary secretary, do not talk about Bill C-26 er, before I go home for the weekend I want to correct the concept and its dynamics for rural Saskatchewan. Do not tell me about how we heard from the government side regarding dynamic rural this great energizing is taking place in agriculture. The parliamen- communities and dynamic agriculture and that somehow they were tary secretary needs to go out there and look. He will see for building rural communities. In the area in which I live nothing himself. Fifty-two towns had hospitals. RMs are closing. It is could be further from the truth. becoming a wasteland. Those people who have good agricultural wheat producing land are going to have to sell that land for grazing I have seen villages disappear. Towns will soon disappear. prices and get out. Elevators are being bulldozed. Railroads are being torn up. Just to show how undynamic it is, seven farms were auctioned off the last We have a disaster. This government comes in with Bill C-26 weekend I was home. Four of them had young people in the same which will do nothing to solve the real problem in Saskatchewan. I family that could take over the farm but because of the bleak feel much better because I have said it. I hope the people in my agricultural outlook which has been brought on by the government province are listening. 296
March 27, 1998 COMMONS DEBATES 5479
Government Orders The Acting Speaker (Mr. McClelland): This is a question and will give the hon. member for Winnipeg Centre a minute in comment period. The hon. member for Winnipeg Centre may response. comment if he wishes. Mr. John Harvard: Mr. Speaker, let me just say that the hon. Mr. Pat Martin: Mr. Speaker, yes. I did not hear a question as member for Souris—Moose Mountain was concerned about the such, but I would like to maybe echo some of the sentiments I rural economy. All of us are concerned about the rural economy. heard. Bill C-26 which is before us now is intended to address one Rural Manitoba, the province I am from is suffering from the concern. The special crops industry on the prairies needs stimula- depopulation, the flight of capital, the flight of families, the flight tion. It needs space. It needs an opportunity to enter into innova- of people, industry, et cetera. tion. That is exactly what Bill C-26 is designed to do. It will support the dealers. And it will support the producers who want to The previous speaker spoke very eloquently about this obviously do business with the special crops dealers. Let us get the facts from personal experience. Nothing we see in this piece of legisla- straight. tion is going to stem that tide nor is it going to take any steps to address the issues that are really facing rural Canada. D (1250)
It is significant to note that the budget did not talk about Mr. Pat Martin: Mr. Speaker, there is nothing in the comments agriculture. Also it has been very odd that in the eight or nine from the hon. parliamentary secretary that I would disagree with. I months I have been a rookie member of Parliament agriculture has concur 100% with his sentiments concerning rural Canada, howev- been raised very, very few times. I understand a number of pressing er we do not believe that Bill C-26 actually addresses those issues from all across Canada compete for our interest but surely, in concerns nor will it take us one step closer to those lofty principles. previous Parliaments, agriculture stood more front and centre than we see now in the House of Commons. Mr. Gerald Keddy (South Shore, PC): Mr. Speaker, I rise today to speak on Bill C-26. Our critic for this area, the hon. Mr. John Harvard (Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of member for Brandon—Souris, could not be here today so I am Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I have to address taking his place. in my comments some of the concerns raised by the hon. member for Souris—Moose Mountain. I will begin with a little background on the bill. We have divided it into three parts. First of all, I would suggest that the hon. member for Souris— On December 4, 1997 the minister of agriculture tabled Bill Moose Mountain talk to his party’s agriculture critic. I heard the C-26 in the House of Commons. The bill is composed of three Reform Party agriculture critic clearly say in his opening remarks parts. that the Reform Party was prepared to offer ‘‘tentative support’’ for Bill C-26. Yes, the Reform Party agriculture critic had some First it would repeal the Grain Futures Act. In essence it allows concerns and some questions but he did say clearly at the beginning for the province of Manitoba through the Manitoba Securities of the debate that his party was prepared to offer tentative support. Commission to regulate the Winnipeg Commodity Exchange instead of the federal government through the Canadian Grain The hon. member for Souris—Moose Mountain had better have Commission. This is related to the Manitoba Commodities Futures a chat with his party’s agriculture critic. Act which was enacted by the Manitoba government.
It is important that Canadians, especially those who live in rural This was an idea that was suggested by the Winnipeg Commodi- Canada, have the facts straight. The hon. member for Souris— ty Exchange itself. The WCE wants to access the hog industry so Moose Mountain— instead of working with two separate regulators, the WCE will conduct all its business through the Manitoba Securities Commis- Mr. Jay Hill (Prince George—Peace River, Ref.): Mr. Speak- sion. er, I rise on a point of order. I believe that the hon. parliamentary secretary is supposed to be directing his comments or his question This is a positive change for the agricultural industry. The PC toward the hon. member from the NDP who spoke and not to my Party will support this aspect of the bill. colleague. Second it would amend the Canada Grain Act to allow speciality The Acting Speaker (Mr. McClelland): The hon. member for crops such as soybeans to fall under crop insurance plans. This Prince George—Peace River is correct. It is the debate of the hon. would also permit the separation of licensing and security provi- member for Winnipeg Centre on which we are on questions and sions for special crops dealers. comments. However, the hon. member for Souris—Moose Moun- tain had a demi presentation should we say. I felt it was very much This government believes that the inability to separate these two in order for the parliamentary secretary to address that. The hon. activities has been the primary problem in developing an insurance parliamentary secretary can have 30 seconds to sum up. Then we plan for the special crops industry of western Canada. By forcing 297
5480 COMMONS DEBATES March 27, 1998
Government Orders such a separation in law and by putting the administration of a very least that the Special Crops Rural Initiative Program be truly voluntary for both voluntary insurance plan under the Canadian Grain Commission, the growers and the special crops dealers. Bill C-26 would remove the onus on special crops dealers to post costly security against the possibility of their default in payment to D (1255) special crops producers. The Canadian Export Development Cor- poration, CEDC, would be the insurer. This resolution aptly describes what Bill C-26 fails to do. It fails to give farmers choice, not unlike what the government did with Although the government may feel that this aspect of the bill is Bill C-4 which failed to give farmers choice in how they sell their positive, there are many people in the farming community who will wheat. differ. I will comment on the insurance program later. The compulsory nature of the special crops insurance plan is a Third, the bill will also incorporate the Canada Grain Act within form of negative option billing. Today’s producers run large the agriculture and agrifood industry, thereby allowing the Cana- operations and should not have to apply to opt out and then receive dian Grain Commission to impose fines for most violations of the their money back if they do not wish to participate. Farming Canada Grain Act and its regulations. This aspect of the bill also businesses should have the right to decide themselves if they want needs a closer look when the bill is sent to committee. to be bonded or licensed and if so, pay the bill themselves. Bill C-26 only adds more red tape and paperwork for farmers to There are a number of aspects of this bill that must be looked at be subjected to while placing extra costs on farm businesses closer for the House’s consideration. Before I do so I must mention already operating on small budgets. Producers should have the to the government that there has been little discussion on this bill choice to decide for themselves if there is too much risk selling to thus far in particular in the farming communities out west. There an unlicensed buyer. Special crops producers would be better off are people in the farming communities who do not know anything having the choice between selling to large licensed grain dealers about this bill. and small unlicensed grain dealers. That would make sense. I hope the government considers giving farmers this choice. It is the responsibility of this government to properly inform Canadians about this legislation, especially when it comes from the There are a number of elements of this bill which need to be House of Commons of Canada. It is the government’s responsibil- looked at closer. I expect that the committee will look into the bill ity to effectively communicate to Canadians what is about to in great detail when it does the clause by clause analysis. become law and what is going to affect their livelihood. In principle the PC Party supports this legislation. However, That being said, I will comment on some of the aspects of the bill there are a number of changes that will have to be adopted at the before this legislation goes before committee. I will comment on committee stage with respect to choice before this bill is acceptable some of the thoughts expressed by the farming organizations out in full to the PC Party of Canada and to the farmers of western west. Canada.
A resolution was passed at the Saskatchewan Canola Growers Mr. Jay Hill (Prince George—Peace River, Ref.): Mr. Speak- Association annual meeting. Similar motions were also passed at er, I want to make a couple of comments. the Western Canadian Wheat Growers convention, the Western Barley Growers convention and the Saskatchewan Pulse Develop- Earlier the parliamentary secretary in referring to some com- ment Board. The motion reads as follows: ments made by my hon. colleague from Souris—Moose Mountain tried to leave the impression with the viewing audience that Whereas the majority of Saskatchewan Canola Growers Association members also are growers of specialty crops; and perhaps there was some division or contradiction in the position that I took versus that of my colleague the Reform member for Whereas the proposed Special Crops Rural Initiative Program would appear to Souris—Moose Mountain. I can assure the House and those favour the Canadian Grain Commission and not necessarily special crop growers; viewing this debate at home today that is not the case. and Whereas the Special Crops Rural Initiative Program is promoted as being While we have given this bill some very tentative support at this voluntary, it is in reality a form of negative billing which all consumers reject (i.e. point, my hon. colleague from Souris—Moose Mountain was cable TV companies); and merely, as I and others in the opposition have done today, pointing Whereas the scheme has questionable support at the farm level; and out some very serious concerns our parties have with this legisla- tion. We all have the hope that the government will respond, unlike Whereas the Saskatchewan Canola Growers Association rejects the compulsory nature of the Special Crops Rural Initiative Program; and with C-4, and actually give this bill a good hearing in committee and possibly make some amendments to it. Whereas the special crops industry has flourished without such a program;
Therefore be it resolved that the Saskatchewan Canola Growers Association inform I note the PC member who just spoke also referred to the need the federal and western provincial ministers of agriculture of their concerns and at the for some amendments and changes before his party will support it 298
March 27, 1998 COMMONS DEBATES 5481
Government Orders any further than the position the bill is at right now, which is to grain commodities coming under this legislation are all very refer the bill after second reading to committee. important issues for the Progressive Conservative Party.
The member referred to the compulsory nature of the check-off, This has tentative support. The bill has merit. If we go through it the levy that is inherent in Bill C-26. This reminds me of the clause by clause it has a perfect chance of becoming a good law of compulsory nature in the way the Canadian Wheat Board operates the Government of Canada. However, several serious changes need where farmers do not have the freedom to choose how they are to be made to the bill before it gets to that point. going to market their wheat and export barley. It is the same case in C-26. Farmers are not going to have the choice of whether or not to Mr. John Harvard (Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of have this check-off come off their cheques. The levy will be Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I want to make deducted and then they have to jump through a bunch of hoops two very short comments. We have made a very good start today, before they can get the money back at the end of the year. an excellent start. We have tentative support from the official opposition. We have support in principle from the Progressive Conservative Party. That is a pretty good start. This would be a It almost reminds one of the inclusion clause in Bill C-4 whereby very good juncture to move the bill to committee. the new board of directors for the Canadian Wheat Board is going to have the option of expanding the compulsory and mandatory The Acting Speaker (Mr. McClelland): Pursuant to order made nature of the Canadian Wheat Board to encompass and include earlier today the question on the motion is deemed to have been put other commodities. and adopted on division.
D (1300 ) (Motion agreed to, bill read the second time and referred to a committee)
I have a question for the hon. member from the Progressive The Acting Speaker (Mr. McClelland): For our friends in the Conservative Party. He may have heard as well as I that there is visitors gallery and those who are watching on television, I am some concern among farmers about comments made by the about to ask the House for permission to see the clock at 2.30 p.m. Canadian Grain Commission. There is concern that it may expand which is our normal time of adjournment. What we are doing is this levy not only to those designated special crops, but at some allowing the House to adjourn at its normal time. This is because point in time to include wheat, barley, canola and flax which are all Private Members’ Business has been deferred. major commodities, thereby removing the government’s responsi- bility for ensuring bonds and insurance coverage by the grain companies and putting added financial burden on to the farmers. Do we have unanimous consent to see the clock as reading 2.30 p.m.?
Mr. Gerald Keddy: Mr. Speaker, those are some excellent Some hon. members: Agreed. questions from the member for Prince George—Peace River. The Acting Speaker (Mr. McClelland): It being 2.30 p.m., the There have been a number of sticky points in this piece of House stands adjourned until Monday next at 11 a.m., pursuant to legislation. Bill C-26 offers some promise, but as the hon. member Standing Order 24(1). already mentioned, the inclusion clause, as it exists in Bill C-4, the fear of such a clause being utilized in this act and the fear of other (The House adjourned at 1.02 p.m.) 299 300
APPENDIX
ALPHABETICAL LIST OF MEMBERS WITH THEIR CONSTITUENCIES, PROVINCE OF CONSTITUENCY AND POLITICAL AFFILIATIONS; COMMITTEES OF THE HOUSE, THE MINISTRY AND PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARIES 301
CHAIR OCCUPANTS
The Speaker
HON. GILBERT PARENT
The Deputy Speaker and Chairman of Committees of the Whole
MR. PETER MILLIKEN
The Deputy Chairman of Committees of the Whole
MR. IAN MCCLELLAND
The Assistant Deputy Chairman of Committees of the Whole
MRS. YOLANDE THIBEAULT
______
BOARD OF INTERNAL ECONOMY
HON. GILBERT PARENT (CHAIRMAN)
HON. DON BOUDRIA, P.C.
HON. ALFONSO GAGLIANO, P.C.
MR. STÉPHANE BERGERON
MR. BILL BLAIKIE
MS. MARLENE CATTERALL
MR. BOB KILGER
MR. PETER MACKAY
MR. PETER MILLIKEN
MR. CHUCK STRAHL
MR. RANDY WHITE 302
3 ALPHABETICAL LIST OF MEMBERS OF THE HOUSE OF COMMONS First Session – Thirty-sixth Parliament
Province of Political Name of Member Constituency Constituency Affiliation
Abbott, Jim ...... Kootenay — Columbia . . . . British Columbia ...... Ref. Ablonczy, Diane ...... Calgary — Nose Hill ...... Alberta ...... Ref. Adams, Peter, Parliamentary Secretary to Leader of the Government in the House of Commons ...... Peterborough ...... Ontario ...... Lib. Alarie, Hélène ...... Louis–Hébert ...... Quebec ...... BQ Alcock, Reg ...... Winnipeg South ...... Manitoba ...... Lib. Anders, Rob ...... Calgary West ...... Alberta ...... Ref. Anderson, Hon. David, Minister of Fisheries and Oceans ...... Victoria ...... British Columbia ...... Lib. Assad, Mark ...... Gatineau ...... Quebec ...... Lib. Assadourian, Sarkis ...... Brampton Centre ...... Ontario ...... Lib. Asselin, Gérard ...... Charlevoix ...... Quebec ...... BQ Augustine, Jean ...... Etobicoke — Lakeshore . . . Ontario ...... Lib. Axworthy, Chris ...... Saskatoon — Rosetown — Biggar ...... Saskatchewan ...... NDP Axworthy, Hon. Lloyd, Minister of Foreign Affairs ...... Winnipeg South Centre . . . Manitoba ...... Lib. Bachand, André ...... Richmond — Arthabaska . . Quebec ...... PC Bachand, Claude ...... Saint–Jean ...... Quebec ...... BQ Bailey, Roy ...... Souris — Moose Mountain Saskatchewan ...... Ref. Baker, George S...... Gander — Grand Falls . . . . Newfoundland ...... Lib. Bakopanos, Eleni, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada ...... Ahuntsic ...... Quebec ...... Lib. Barnes, Sue, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of National Revenue London West ...... Ontario ...... Lib. Beaumier, Colleen ...... Brampton West — Mississauga...... Ontario ...... Lib. Bélair, Réginald ...... Timmins — James Bay . . . . Ontario ...... Lib. Bélanger, Mauril ...... Ottawa — Vanier ...... Ontario ...... Lib. Bellehumeur, Michel ...... Berthier — Montcalm . . . . . Quebec ...... BQ Bellemare, Eugène ...... Carleton — Gloucester . . . . Ontario ...... Lib. Bennett, Carolyn ...... St. Paul’s ...... Ontario ...... Lib. Benoit, Leon E...... Lakeland ...... Alberta ...... Ref. Bergeron, Stéphane ...... Verchères ...... Quebec ...... BQ Bernier, Gilles ...... Tobique — Mactaquac . . . . New Brunswick ...... PC Bernier, Yvan ...... Bonaventure — Gaspé— Îles–de–la–Madeleine— Pabok Quebec ...... BQ Bertrand, Robert ...... Pontiac — Gatineau — Labelle ...... Quebec ...... Lib. Bevilacqua, Maurizio ...... Vaughan — King — Aurora Ontario ...... Lib. Bigras, Bernard ...... Rosemont ...... Quebec ...... BQ Blaikie, Bill ...... Winnipeg — Transcona . . . Manitoba ...... NDP Blondin–Andrew, Hon. Ethel, Secretary of State (Children and Youth) Western Arctic ...... Northwest Territories . . Lib. Bonin, Raymond ...... Nickel Belt ...... Ontario ...... Lib. Bonwick, Paul ...... Simcoe — Grey ...... Ontario ...... Lib. Borotsik, Rick ...... Brandon — Souris ...... Manitoba ...... PC Boudria, Hon. Don, Leader of the Government in the House of Glengarry — Prescott — Commons ...... Russell ...... Ontario ...... Lib. Bradshaw, Claudette, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister for International Cooperation ...... Moncton ...... New Brunswick ...... Lib. Breitkreuz, Cliff ...... Yellowhead ...... Alberta ...... Ref. 303
4
Province of Political Name of Member Constituency Constituency Affiliation
Breitkreuz, Garry ...... Yorkton — Melville ...... Saskatchewan ...... Ref. Brien, Pierre ...... Témiscamingue ...... Quebec ...... BQ Brison, Scott ...... Kings — Hants ...... Nova Scotia ...... PC Brown, Bonnie ...... Oakville ...... Ontario ...... Lib. Bryden, John ...... Wentworth — Burlington . Ontario ...... Lib. Bulte, Sarmite ...... Parkdale — High Park . . . . Ontario ...... Lib. Byrne, Gerry, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Natural Resources Humber — St. Barbe — Baie Verte ...... Newfoundland ...... Lib. Caccia, Hon. Charles ...... Davenport ...... Ontario ...... Lib. Cadman, Chuck ...... Surrey North ...... British Columbia ...... Ref. Calder, Murray ...... Dufferin — Peel — Wellington — Grey ...... Ontario ...... Lib. Cannis, John ...... Scarborough Centre ...... Ontario ...... Lib. Canuel, René ...... Matapédia — Matane . . . . . Quebec ...... BQ Caplan, Elinor ...... Thornhill ...... Ontario ...... Lib. Carroll, Aileen ...... Barrie — Simcoe — Bradford ...... Ontario ...... Lib. Casey, Bill ...... Cumberland — Colchester . Nova Scotia ...... PC Casson, Rick ...... Lethbridge ...... Alberta ...... Ref. Catterall, Marlene ...... Ottawa West — Nepean . . . Ontario ...... Lib. Cauchon, Hon. Martin, Secretary of State (Economic Development Agency of Canada for the Regions of Quebec) ...... Outremont ...... Quebec ...... Lib. Chamberlain, Brenda, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Labour . Guelph — Wellington . . . . . Ontario ...... Lib. Chan, Hon. Raymond, Secretary of State (Asia–Pacific) ...... Richmond ...... British Columbia ...... Lib. Charbonneau, Yvon ...... Anjou — Rivière–des– Prairies ...... Quebec ...... Lib. Charest, Hon. Jean J...... Sherbrooke ...... Quebec ...... PC Chatters, David ...... Athabasca ...... Alberta ...... Ref. Chrétien, Right Hon. Jean, Prime Minister ...... Saint–Maurice ...... Quebec ...... Lib. Chrétien, Jean–Guy ...... Frontenac — Mégantic . . . . Quebec ...... BQ Clouthier, Hec ...... Renfrew — Nipissing — Pembroke ...... Ontario ...... Lib. Coderre, Denis ...... Bourassa ...... Quebec ...... Lib. Cohen, Shaughnessy ...... Windsor — St. Clair ...... Ontario ...... Lib. Collenette, Hon. David M., Minister of Transport ...... Don Valley East ...... Ontario ...... Lib. Comuzzi, Joe ...... Thunder Bay — Nipigon . . Ontario ...... Lib. Copps, Hon. Sheila, Minister of Canadian Heritage ...... Hamilton East ...... Ontario ...... Lib. Crête, Paul ...... Kamouraska — Rivière–du– Loup — Témiscouata — Les Basques ...... Quebec ...... BQ Cullen, Roy ...... Etobicoke North ...... Ontario ...... Lib. Cummins, John ...... Delta — South Richmond . British Columbia ...... Ref. Dalphond–Guiral, Madeleine ...... Laval Centre ...... Quebec ...... BQ Davies, Libby ...... Vancouver East ...... British Columbia ...... NDP de Savoye, Pierre ...... Portneuf ...... Quebec ...... BQ Debien, Maud ...... Laval East ...... Quebec ...... BQ Desjarlais, Bev ...... Churchill ...... Manitoba ...... NDP Desrochers, Odina ...... Lotbinière ...... Quebec ...... BQ DeVillers, Paul, Parliamentary Secretary to President of the Queen’s Privy Council for Canada and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs Simcoe North ...... Ontario ...... Lib. Dhaliwal, Hon. Harbance Singh, Minister of National Revenue ...... Vancouver South — Burnaby ...... British Columbia ...... Lib. Dion, Hon. Stéphane, President of the Queen’s Privy Council for Canada and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs ...... Saint–Laurent — Cartierville Quebec ...... Lib. 304
5
Province of Political Name of Member Constituency Constituency Affiliation
Discepola, Nick, Parliamentary Secretary to Solicitor General of Canada ...... Vaudreuil — Soulanges . . . Quebec ...... Lib. Dockrill, Michelle ...... Bras d’Or ...... Nova Scotia ...... NDP Doyle, Norman ...... St. John’s East ...... Newfoundland ...... PC Dromisky, Stan ...... Thunder Bay — Atikokan . Ontario ...... Lib. Drouin, Claude ...... Beauce ...... Quebec ...... Lib. Dubé, Antoine ...... Lévis ...... Quebec ...... BQ Dubé, Jean ...... Madawaska — Restigouche New Brunswick ...... PC Duceppe, Gilles ...... Laurier — Sainte–Marie . . . Quebec ...... BQ Duhamel, Hon. Ronald J., Secretary of State (Science, Research and Development)(Western Economic Diversification) ...... Saint Boniface ...... Manitoba ...... Lib. Dumas, Maurice ...... Argenteuil — Papineau . . . . Quebec ...... BQ Duncan, John ...... Vancouver Island North . . . British Columbia ...... Ref. Earle, Gordon ...... Halifax West ...... Nova Scotia ...... NDP Easter, Wayne, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Fisheries and Oceans ...... Malpeque ...... Prince Edward Island . . Lib. Eggleton, Hon. Arthur C., Minister of National Defence ...... York Centre ...... Ontario ...... Lib. Elley, Reed ...... Nanaimo — Cowichan . . . . British Columbia ...... Ref. Epp, Ken ...... Elk Island ...... Alberta ...... Ref. Finestone, Hon. Sheila ...... Mount Royal ...... Quebec ...... Lib. Finlay, John ...... Oxford ...... Ontario ...... Lib. Folco, Raymonde ...... Laval West ...... Quebec ...... Lib. Fontana, Joe ...... London North Centre . . . . . Ontario ...... Lib. Forseth, Paul ...... New Westminster — Coquitlam — Burnaby . . . . British Columbia ...... Ref. Fournier, Ghislain ...... Manicouagan ...... Quebec ...... BQ Fry, Hon. Hedy, Secretary of State (Multiculturalism)(Status of Women) ...... Vancouver Centre ...... British Columbia ...... Lib. Gagliano, Hon. Alfonso, Minister of Public Works and Government Saint–Léonard — Services ...... Saint–Michel ...... Quebec ...... Lib. Gagnon, Christiane ...... Québec ...... Quebec ...... BQ Gallaway, Roger ...... Sarnia — Lambton ...... Ontario ...... Lib. Gauthier, Michel ...... Roberval ...... Quebec ...... BQ Gilmour, Bill ...... Nanaimo — Alberni ...... British Columbia ...... Ref. Girard–Bujold, Jocelyne ...... Jonquière ...... Quebec ...... BQ Godfrey, John, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Canadian Heritage ...... Don Valley West ...... Ontario ...... Lib. Godin, Maurice ...... Châteauguay ...... Quebec ...... BQ Godin, Yvon ...... Acadie — Bathurst ...... New Brunswick ...... NDP Goldring, Peter ...... Edmonton East ...... Alberta ...... Ref. Goodale, Hon. Ralph E., Minister of Natural Resources and Minister responsible for the Canadian Wheat Board ...... Wascana ...... Saskatchewan ...... Lib. Gouk, Jim ...... West Kootenay — Okanagan British Columbia ...... Ref. Graham, Bill ...... Toronto Centre — Rosedale Ontario ...... Lib. Gray, Hon. Herb, Deputy Prime Minister ...... Windsor West ...... Ontario ...... Lib. Grewal, Gurmant ...... Surrey Central ...... British Columbia ...... Ref. Grey, Deborah ...... Edmonton North ...... Alberta ...... Ref. Grose, Ivan ...... Oshawa ...... Ontario ...... Lib. Guarnieri, Albina ...... Mississauga East ...... Ontario ...... Lib. Guay, Monique ...... Laurentides ...... Quebec ...... BQ Guimond, Michel ...... Beauport — Montmorency — Orléans . . Quebec ...... BQ Hanger, Art ...... Calgary Northeast ...... Alberta ...... Ref. Harb, Mac ...... Ottawa Centre ...... Ontario ...... Lib. 305
6
Province of Political Name of Member Constituency Constituency Affiliation
Hardy, Louise ...... Yukon ...... Yukon ...... NDP Harris, Dick ...... Prince George — Bulkley Valley ...... British Columbia ...... Ref. Hart, Jim ...... Okanagan — Coquihalla . . British Columbia ...... Ref. Harvard, John, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Agriculture and Agri–Food ...... Charleswood — Assiniboine Manitoba ...... Lib. Harvey, André ...... Chicoutimi ...... Quebec ...... PC Herron, John ...... Fundy — Royal ...... New Brunswick ...... PC Hill, Grant ...... Macleod ...... Alberta ...... Ref. Hill, Jay ...... Prince George — Peace River ...... British Columbia ...... Ref. Hilstrom, Howard ...... Selkirk — Interlake ...... Manitoba ...... Ref. Hoeppner, Jake E...... Portage — Lisgar ...... Manitoba ...... Ref. Hubbard, Charles ...... Miramichi ...... New Brunswick ...... Lib. Ianno, Tony ...... Trinity — Spadina ...... Ontario ...... Lib. Iftody, David ...... Provencher ...... Manitoba ...... Lib. Jackson, Ovid L., Parliamentary Secretary to President of the Treasury Board ...... Bruce — Grey ...... Ontario ...... Lib. Jaffer, Rahim ...... Edmonton — Strathcona . . Alberta ...... Ref. Jennings, Marlene ...... Notre–Dame–de–Grâce— Lachine ...... Quebec ...... Lib. Johnston, Dale ...... Wetaskiwin ...... Alberta ...... Ref. Jones, Jim ...... Markham ...... Ontario ...... PC Jordan, Joe ...... Leeds — Grenville ...... Ontario ...... Lib. Karetak–Lindell, Nancy ...... Nunavut ...... Northwest Territories . . Lib. Karygiannis, Jim ...... Scarborough — Agincourt . Ontario ...... Lib. Keddy, Gerald ...... South Shore ...... Nova Scotia ...... PC Kenney, Jason ...... Calgary Southeast ...... Alberta ...... Ref. Kerpan, Allan ...... Blackstrap ...... Saskatchewan ...... Ref. Keyes, Stan, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Transport ...... Hamilton West ...... Ontario ...... Lib. Kilger, Bob ...... Stormont — Dundas ...... Ontario ...... Lib. Kilgour, Hon. David, Secretary of State (Latin America and Africa) . . Edmonton Southeast ...... Alberta ...... Lib. Knutson, Gar ...... Elgin — Middlesex — London ...... Ontario ...... Lib. Konrad, Derrek ...... Prince Albert ...... Saskatchewan ...... Ref. Kraft Sloan, Karen, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of the Environment ...... York North ...... Ontario ...... Lib. Laliberte, Rick ...... Churchill River ...... Saskatchewan ...... NDP Lalonde, Francine ...... Mercier ...... Quebec ...... BQ Lastewka, Walt, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Industry . . . . . St. Catharines ...... Ontario ...... Lib. Laurin, René ...... Joliette ...... Quebec ...... BQ Lavigne, Raymond ...... Verdun — Saint–Henri . . . . Quebec ...... Lib. Lebel, Ghislain ...... Chambly ...... Quebec ...... BQ Lee, Derek ...... Scarborough — Rouge River Ontario ...... Lib. Lefebvre, Réjean ...... Champlain ...... Quebec ...... BQ Leung, Sophia ...... Vancouver Kingsway . . . . . British Columbia ...... Lib. Lill, Wendy ...... Dartmouth ...... Nova Scotia ...... NDP Lincoln, Clifford ...... Lac–Saint–Louis ...... Quebec ...... Lib. Longfield, Judi ...... Whitby — Ajax ...... Ontario ...... Lib. Loubier, Yvan ...... Saint–Hyacinthe — Bagot . Quebec ...... BQ Lowther, Eric ...... Calgary Centre ...... Alberta ...... Ref. Lunn, Gary ...... Saanich — Gulf Islands . . . British Columbia ...... Ref. MacAulay, Hon. Lawrence, Minister of Labour ...... Cardigan ...... Prince Edward Island . . Lib. 306
7
Province of Political Name of Member Constituency Constituency Affiliation
MacKay, Peter ...... Pictou — Antigonish — Guysborough ...... Nova Scotia ...... PC Mahoney, Steve ...... Mississauga West ...... Ontario ...... Lib. Malhi, Gurbax Singh ...... Bramalea — Gore — Malton Ontario ...... Lib. Maloney, John ...... Erie — Lincoln ...... Ontario ...... Lib. Mancini, Peter ...... Sydney — Victoria ...... Nova Scotia ...... NDP Manley, Hon. John, Minister of Industry ...... Ottawa South ...... Ontario ...... Lib. Manning, Preston, Leader of the Opposition ...... Calgary Southwest ...... Alberta ...... Ref. Marceau, Richard ...... Charlesbourg ...... Quebec ...... BQ Marchand, Jean–Paul ...... Québec East ...... Quebec ...... BQ Marchi, Hon. Sergio, Minister for International Trade ...... York West ...... Ontario ...... Lib. Mark, Inky ...... Dauphin — Swan River . . . Manitoba ...... Ref. Marleau, Hon. Diane, Minister for International Cooperation and Minister responsible for Francophonie ...... Sudbury ...... Ontario ...... Lib. Martin, Keith ...... Esquimalt — Juan de Fuca . British Columbia ...... Ref. Martin, Pat ...... Winnipeg Centre ...... Manitoba ...... NDP Martin, Hon. Paul, Minister of Finance ...... LaSalle —Émard ...... Quebec ...... Lib. Massé, Hon. Marcel, President of the Treasury Board and Minister responsible for Infrastructure ...... Hull — Aylmer ...... Quebec ...... Lib. Matthews, Bill ...... Burin — St. George’s . . . . . Newfoundland ...... PC Mayfield, Philip ...... Cariboo — Chilcotin ...... British Columbia ...... Ref. McClelland, Ian, Deputy Chairman of Committees of the Whole . . . . . Edmonton Southwest . . . . . Alberta ...... Ref. McCormick, Larry ...... Hastings — Frontenac — Lennox and Addington . . . . Ontario ...... Lib. McDonough, Alexa ...... Halifax ...... Nova Scotia ...... NDP McGuire, Joe ...... Egmont ...... Prince Edward Island . . Lib. McKay, John ...... Scarborough East ...... Ontario ...... Lib. McLellan, Hon. Anne, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada ...... Edmonton West ...... Alberta ...... Lib. McNally, Grant ...... Dewdney — Alouette . . . . . British Columbia ...... Ref. McTeague, Dan ...... Pickering — Ajax — Uxbridge ...... Ontario ...... Lib. McWhinney, Ted, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Foreign Affairs ...... Vancouver Quadra ...... British Columbia ...... Lib. Ménard, Réal ...... Hochelaga — Maisonneuve Quebec ...... BQ Mercier, Paul ...... Terrebonne — Blainville . . Quebec ...... BQ Meredith, Val ...... South Surrey — White Rock — Langley ...... British Columbia ...... Ref. Mifflin, Hon. Fred, Minister of Veterans Affairs and Secretary of State Bonavista — Trinity — (Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency) ...... Conception ...... Newfoundland ...... Lib. Milliken, Peter, Deputy Speaker and Chairman of Committees of the Whole ...... Kingston and the Islands . . Ontario ...... Lib. Mills, Bob ...... Red Deer ...... Alberta ...... Ref. Mills, Dennis J...... Broadview — Greenwood . Ontario ...... Lib. Minna, Maria, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Citizenship and Immigration ...... Beaches — East York . . . . . Ontario ...... Lib. Mitchell, Hon. Andy, Secretary of State (Parks) ...... Parry Sound — Muskoka . . Ontario ...... Lib. Morrison, Lee ...... Cypress Hills — Grasslands Saskatchewan ...... Ref. Muise, Mark ...... West Nova ...... Nova Scotia ...... PC Murray, Ian ...... Lanark — Carleton ...... Ontario ...... Lib. Myers, Lynn ...... Waterloo — Wellington . . . Ontario ...... Lib. Nault, Robert D., Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Human Resources Development ...... Kenora — Rainy River . . . . Ontario ...... Lib. 307
8
Province of Political Name of Member Constituency Constituency Affiliation
Normand, Hon. Gilbert, Secretary of State (Agriculture and Agri–Food) Bellechasse— Etchemins — (Fisheries and Oceans) ...... Montmagny — L’Islet . . . . Quebec ...... Lib. Nunziata, John ...... York South — Weston . . . . Ontario ...... Ind. Nystrom, Hon. Lorne ...... Qu’Appelle ...... Saskatchewan ...... NDP O’Brien, Lawrence D...... Labrador ...... Newfoundland ...... Lib. O’Brien, Pat ...... London — Fanshawe . . . . . Ontario ...... Lib. O’Reilly, John ...... Victoria — Haliburton . . . . Ontario ...... Lib. Obhrai, Deepak ...... Calgary East ...... Alberta ...... Ref. Pagtakhan, Rey D., Parliamentary Secretary to Prime Minister ...... Winnipeg North — St. Paul Manitoba ...... Lib. Pankiw, Jim ...... Saskatoon — Humboldt . . . Saskatchewan ...... Ref. Paradis, Denis ...... Brome — Missisquoi . . . . . Quebec ...... Lib. Parent, Hon. Gilbert, Speaker ...... Niagara Centre ...... Ontario ...... Lib. Parrish, Carolyn ...... Mississauga Centre ...... Ontario ...... Lib. Patry, Bernard, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development ...... Pierrefonds — Dollard . . . . Quebec ...... Lib. Penson, Charlie ...... Peace River ...... Alberta ...... Ref. PeriŇ, Janko ...... Cambridge ...... Ontario ...... Lib. Perron, Gilles–A...... Saint–Eustache — Sainte– Thérèse ...... Quebec ...... BQ Peterson, Hon. Jim, Secretary of State (International Financial Institutions) ...... Willowdale ...... Ontario ...... Lib. Pettigrew, Hon. Pierre S., Minister of Human Resources Development Papineau — Saint–Denis . . Quebec ...... Lib. Phinney, Beth ...... Hamilton Mountain ...... Ontario ...... Lib. Picard, Pauline ...... Drummond ...... Quebec ...... BQ Pickard, Jerry, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Public Works and Government Services ...... Kent — Essex ...... Ontario ...... Lib. Pillitteri, Gary ...... Niagara Falls ...... Ontario ...... Lib. Plamondon, Louis ...... Richelieu ...... Quebec ...... BQ Power, Charlie ...... St. John’s West ...... Newfoundland ...... PC Pratt, David ...... Nepean — Carleton ...... Ontario ...... Lib. Price, David ...... Compton — Stanstead . . . . Quebec ...... PC Proctor, Dick ...... Palliser ...... Saskatchewan ...... NDP Proud, George, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Veterans Affairs Hillsborough ...... Prince Edward Island . . Lib. Provenzano, Carmen ...... Sault Ste. Marie ...... Ontario ...... Lib. Ramsay, Jack ...... Crowfoot ...... Alberta ...... Ref. Redman, Karen ...... Kitchener Centre ...... Ontario ...... Lib. Reed, Julian, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister for International Trade ...... Halton ...... Ontario ...... Lib. Reynolds, John ...... West Vancouver — Sunshine Coast ...... British Columbia ...... Ref. Richardson, John, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of National Defence ...... Perth — Middlesex ...... Ontario ...... Lib. Riis, Nelson ...... Kamloops ...... British Columbia ...... NDP Ritz, Gerry ...... Battlefords — Lloydminster Saskatchewan ...... Ref. Robillard, Hon. Lucienne, Minister of Citizenship and Immigration . . . Westmount — Ville–Marie Quebec ...... Lib. Robinson, Svend J...... Burnaby — Douglas ...... British Columbia ...... NDP Rocheleau, Yves ...... Trois–Rivières ...... Quebec ...... BQ Rock, Hon. Allan, Minister of Health ...... Etobicoke Centre ...... Ontario ...... Lib. Saada, Jacques ...... Brossard — La Prairie . . . . . Quebec ...... Lib. Sauvageau, Benoît ...... Repentigny ...... Quebec ...... BQ Schmidt, Werner ...... Kelowna ...... British Columbia ...... Ref. Scott, Hon. Andy, Solicitor General of Canada ...... Fredericton ...... New Brunswick ...... Lib. Scott, Mike ...... Skeena ...... British Columbia ...... Ref. 308
9
Province of Political Name of Member Constituency Constituency Affiliation
Serré, Benoît ...... Timiskaming — Cochrane . Ontario ...... Lib. Shepherd, Alex ...... Durham ...... Ontario ...... Lib. Solberg, Monte ...... Medicine Hat ...... Alberta ...... Ref. Solomon, John ...... Regina — Lumsden — Lake Centre ...... Saskatchewan ...... NDP Speller, Bob ...... Haldimand — Norfolk — Brant ...... Ontario ...... Lib. St. Denis, Brent ...... Algoma — Manitoulin . . . . Ontario ...... Lib. St–Hilaire, Caroline ...... Longueuil ...... Quebec ...... BQ St–Jacques, Diane ...... Shefford ...... Quebec ...... PC St–Julien, Guy ...... Abitibi ...... Quebec ...... Lib. Steckle, Paul ...... Huron — Bruce ...... Ontario ...... Lib. Stewart, Hon. Christine, Minister of the Environment ...... Northumberland ...... Ontario ...... Lib. Stewart, Hon. Jane, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development ...... Brant ...... Ontario ...... Lib. Stinson, Darrel ...... Okanagan — Shuswap . . . . British Columbia ...... Ref. Stoffer, Peter ...... Sackville — Eastern Shore . Nova Scotia ...... NDP Strahl, Chuck ...... Fraser Valley ...... British Columbia ...... Ref. Szabo, Paul ...... Mississauga South ...... Ontario ...... Lib. Telegdi, Andrew ...... Kitchener — Waterloo . . . . Ontario ...... Lib. Thibeault, Yolande, Assistant Deputy Chairman of Committees of the Whole ...... Saint–Lambert ...... Quebec ...... Lib. Thompson, Greg ...... Charlotte ...... New Brunswick ...... PC Thompson, Myron ...... Wild Rose ...... Alberta ...... Ref. Torsney, Paddy ...... Burlington ...... Ontario ...... Lib. Tremblay, Stéphan ...... Lac–Saint–Jean ...... Quebec ...... BQ Tremblay, Suzanne ...... Rimouski — Mitis ...... Quebec ...... BQ Turp, Daniel ...... Beauharnois — Salaberry . . Quebec ...... BQ Ur, Rose–Marie ...... Lambton — Kent — Middlesex ...... Ontario ...... Lib. Valeri, Tony, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Finance ...... Stoney Creek ...... Ontario ...... Lib. Vanclief, Hon. Lyle, Minister of Agriculture and Agri–Food ...... Prince Edward — Hastings Ontario ...... Lib. Vautour, Angela ...... Beauséjour — Petitcodiac . New Brunswick ...... NDP Vellacott, Maurice ...... Wanuskewin ...... Saskatchewan ...... Ref. Venne, Pierrette ...... Saint–Bruno — Saint– Hubert ...... Quebec ...... BQ Volpe, Joseph, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Health ...... Eglinton — Lawrence . . . . . Ontario ...... Lib. Wappel, Tom ...... Scarborough Southwest . . . Ontario ...... Lib. Wasylycia–Leis, Judy ...... Winnipeg North Centre . . . Manitoba ...... NDP Wayne, Elsie ...... Saint John ...... New Brunswick ...... PC Whelan, Susan ...... Essex ...... Ontario ...... Lib. White, Randy ...... Langley — Abbotsford . . . . British Columbia ...... Ref. White, Ted ...... North Vancouver ...... British Columbia ...... Ref. Wilfert, Bryon ...... Oak Ridges ...... Ontario ...... Lib. Williams, John ...... St. Albert ...... Alberta ...... Ref. Wood, Bob ...... Nipissing ...... Ontario ...... Lib. VACANCY ...... Port Moody — Coquitlam . British Columbia ......
______N.B.: Under Political Affiliation: Lib.–Liberal; Ref.–Reform Party of Canada; BQ–Bloc Québécois; NDP–New Democratic Party; PC–Progressive Conservative; Ind.–Independent. Anyone wishing to communicate with House of Commons members is invited to communicate with either the Member’s constituency or Parliament Hill offices. 309
10 ALPHABETICAL LIST OF MEMBERS OF THE HOUSE OF COMMONS B Y PROVINCE First Session Ċ Thirty-sixth Parliament
Political Name of Member Constituency Affiliation
ALBERTA (26)
Ablonczy, Diane ...... Calgary—Nose Hill...... Ref. Anders, Rob ...... Calgary West ...... Ref. Benoit, Leon E...... Lakeland ...... Ref. Breitkreuz, Cliff ...... Yellowhead ...... Ref. Casson, Rick ...... Lethbridge ...... Ref. Chatters, David ...... Athabasca ...... Ref. Epp, Ken ...... Elk Island ...... Ref. Goldring, Peter ...... Edmonton East ...... Ref. Grey, Deborah ...... Edmonton North ...... Ref. Hanger, Art ...... Calgary Northeast ...... Ref. Hill, Grant ...... Macleod ...... Ref. Jaffer, Rahim ...... Edmonton—Strathcona ...... Ref. Johnston, Dale ...... Wetaskiwin ...... Ref. Kenney, Jason ...... Calgary Southeast ...... Ref. Kilgour, Hon. David, Secretary of State (Latin America and Africa) ...... Edmonton Southeast ...... Lib. Lowther, Eric ...... Calgary Centre ...... Ref. Manning, Preston, Leader of the Opposition ...... Calgary Southwest ...... Ref. McClelland, Ian, Deputy Chairman of Committees of the Whole ...... Edmonton Southwest ...... Ref. McLellan, Hon. Anne, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada ...... Edmonton West ...... Lib. Mills, Bob ...... Red Deer ...... Ref. Obhrai, Deepak ...... Calgary East ...... Ref. Penson, Charlie ...... Peace River ...... Ref. Ramsay, Jack ...... Crowfoot ...... Ref. Solberg, Monte ...... Medicine Hat ...... Ref. Thompson, Myron ...... Wild Rose ...... Ref. Williams, John ...... St. Albert ...... Ref.
BRITISH COLUMBIA (34)
Abbott, Jim ...... Kootenay—Columbia...... Ref. Anderson, Hon. David, Minister of Fisheries and Oceans ...... Victoria ...... Lib. Cadman, Chuck ...... Surrey North ...... Ref. Chan, Hon. Raymond, Secretary of State (Asia–Pacific) ...... Richmond ...... Lib. Cummins, John ...... Delta—South Richmond ...... Ref. Davies, Libby ...... Vancouver East ...... NDP Dhaliwal, Hon. Harbance Singh, Minister of National Revenue ...... Vancouver South—Burnaby ...... Lib. Duncan, John ...... Vancouver Island North ...... Ref. Elley, Reed ...... Nanaimo—Cowichan ...... Ref. Forseth, Paul ...... New Westminster—Coquitlam— Ref. Burnaby ...... Fry, Hon. Hedy, Secretary of State (Multiculturalism)(Status of Women) ...... Vancouver Centre ...... Lib. Gilmour, Bill ...... Nanaimo—Alberni ...... Ref. Gouk, Jim ...... West Kootenay—Okanagan ...... Ref. Grewal, Gurmant ...... Surrey Central ...... Ref. Harris, Dick ...... Prince George—Bulkley Valley ...... Ref. Hart, Jim ...... Okanagan—Coquihalla ...... Ref. 310
11
Political Name of Member Constituency Affiliation
Hill, Jay ...... Prince George—Peace River ...... Ref. Leung, Sophia ...... Vancouver Kingsway ...... Lib. Lunn, Gary ...... Saanich—Gulf Islands ...... Ref. Martin, Keith ...... Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca...... Ref. Mayfield, Philip ...... Cariboo—Chilcotin...... Ref. McNally, Grant ...... Dewdney—Alouette ...... Ref. McWhinney, Ted, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Foreign Affairs ...... Vancouver Quadra ...... Lib. Meredith, Val ...... South Surrey—White Rock—Langley . . Ref. Reynolds, John ...... West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast ...... Ref. Riis, Nelson ...... Kamloops ...... NDP Robinson, Svend J...... Burnaby—Douglas ...... NDP Schmidt, Werner ...... Kelowna ...... Ref. Scott, Mike ...... Skeena ...... Ref. Stinson, Darrel ...... Okanagan—Shuswap ...... Ref. Strahl, Chuck ...... Fraser Valley ...... Ref. White, Randy ...... Langley—Abbotsford...... Ref. White, Ted ...... North Vancouver ...... Ref. VACANCY ...... Port Moody—Coquitlam ......
MANITOBA (14)
Alcock, Reg ...... Winnipeg South ...... Lib. Axworthy, Hon. Lloyd, Minister of Foreign Affairs ...... Winnipeg South Centre ...... Lib. Blaikie, Bill ...... Winnipeg—Transcona ...... NDP Borotsik, Rick ...... Brandon—Souris...... PC Desjarlais, Bev ...... Churchill ...... NDP Duhamel, Hon. Ronald J., Secretary of State (Science, Research and Development)(Western Economic Diversification) ...... Saint Boniface ...... Lib. Harvard, John, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Agriculture and Agri–Food . . . . Charleswood—Assiniboine ...... Lib. Hilstrom, Howard ...... Selkirk—Interlake...... Ref. Hoeppner, Jake E...... Portage—Lisgar...... Ref. Iftody, David ...... Provencher ...... Lib. Mark, Inky ...... Dauphin—Swan River ...... Ref. Martin, Pat ...... Winnipeg Centre ...... NDP Pagtakhan, Rey D., Parliamentary Secretary to Prime Minister ...... Winnipeg North—St. Paul ...... Lib. Wasylycia–Leis, Judy ...... Winnipeg North Centre ...... NDP
NEW BRUNSWICK (10)
Bernier, Gilles ...... Tobique—Mactaquac ...... PC Bradshaw, Claudette, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister for International Cooperation Moncton ...... Lib. Dubé, Jean ...... Madawaska—Restigouche...... PC Godin, Yvon ...... Acadie—Bathurst ...... NDP Herron, John ...... Fundy —Royal ...... PC Hubbard, Charles ...... Miramichi ...... Lib. Scott, Hon. Andy, Solicitor General of Canada ...... Fredericton ...... Lib. Thompson, Greg ...... Charlotte ...... PC Vautour, Angela ...... Beauséjour—Petitcodiac ...... NDP Wayne, Elsie ...... Saint John ...... PC
NEWFOUNDLAND (7)
Baker, George S...... Gander—Grand Falls ...... Lib. 311
12
Political Name of Member Constituency Affiliation
Byrne, Gerry, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Natural Resources ...... Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte...... Lib. Doyle, Norman ...... St. John’s East ...... PC Matthews, Bill ...... Burin—St. George’s ...... PC Mifflin, Hon. Fred, Minister of Veterans Affairs and Secretary of State (Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency) ...... Bonavista—Trinity—Conception...... Lib. O’Brien, Lawrence D...... Labrador ...... Lib. Power, Charlie ...... St. John’s West ...... PC
NORTHWEST TERRITORIES (2)
Blondin–Andrew, Hon. Ethel, Secretary of State (Children and Youth) ...... Western Arctic ...... Lib. Karetak–Lindell, Nancy ...... Nunavut ...... Lib.
NOVA SCOTIA (11)
Brison, Scott ...... Kings—Hants ...... PC Casey, Bill ...... Cumberland—Colchester...... PC Dockrill, Michelle ...... Bras d’Or ...... NDP Earle, Gordon ...... Halifax West ...... NDP Keddy, Gerald ...... South Shore ...... PC Lill, Wendy ...... Dartmouth ...... NDP MacKay, Peter ...... Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough . . . . PC Mancini, Peter ...... Sydney—Victoria ...... NDP McDonough, Alexa ...... Halifax ...... NDP Muise, Mark ...... West Nova ...... PC Stoffer, Peter ...... Sackville—Eastern Shore...... NDP
ONTARIO (103) Adams, Peter, Parliamentary Secretary to Leader of the Government in the House of Commons ...... Peterborough ...... Lib. Assadourian, Sarkis ...... Brampton Centre ...... Lib. Augustine, Jean ...... Etobicoke—Lakeshore ...... Lib. Barnes, Sue, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of National Revenue ...... London West ...... Lib. Beaumier, Colleen ...... Brampton West—Mississauga...... Lib. Bélair, Réginald ...... Timmins—James Bay...... Lib. Bélanger, Mauril ...... Ottawa—Vanier...... Lib. Bellemare, Eugène ...... Carleton—Gloucester ...... Lib. Bennett, Carolyn ...... St. Paul’s ...... Lib. Bevilacqua, Maurizio ...... Vaughan—King—Aurora...... Lib. Bonin, Raymond ...... Nickel Belt ...... Lib. Bonwick, Paul ...... Simcoe—Grey ...... Lib. Boudria, Hon. Don, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons ...... Glengarry—Prescott—Russell ...... Lib. Brown, Bonnie ...... Oakville ...... Lib. Bryden, John ...... Wentworth—Burlington ...... Lib. Bulte, Sarmite ...... Parkdale—High Park ...... Lib. Caccia, Hon. Charles ...... Davenport ...... Lib. Calder, Murray ...... Dufferin—Peel—Wellington—Grey. . . . Lib. Cannis, John ...... Scarborough Centre ...... Lib. Caplan, Elinor ...... Thornhill ...... Lib. Carroll, Aileen ...... Barrie—Simcoe—Bradford...... Lib. Catterall, Marlene ...... Ottawa West—Nepean ...... Lib. Chamberlain, Brenda, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Labour ...... Guelph—Wellington ...... Lib. 312
13
Political Name of Member Constituency Affiliation
Clouthier, Hec ...... Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke...... Lib. Cohen, Shaughnessy ...... Windsor—St. Clair ...... Lib. Collenette, Hon. David M., Minister of Transport ...... Don Valley East ...... Lib. Comuzzi, Joe ...... Thunder Bay—Nipigon ...... Lib. Copps, Hon. Sheila, Minister of Canadian Heritage ...... Hamilton East ...... Lib. Cullen, Roy ...... Etobicoke North ...... Lib. DeVillers, Paul, Parliamentary Secretary to President of the Queen’s Privy Council for Canada and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs ...... Simcoe North ...... Lib. Dromisky, Stan ...... Thunder Bay—Atikokan ...... Lib. Eggleton, Hon. Arthur C., Minister of National Defence ...... York Centre ...... Lib. Finlay, John ...... Oxford ...... Lib. Fontana, Joe ...... London North Centre ...... Lib. Gallaway, Roger ...... Sarnia—Lambton ...... Lib. Godfrey, John, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Canadian Heritage ...... Don Valley West ...... Lib. Graham, Bill ...... Toronto Centre—Rosedale ...... Lib. Gray, Hon. Herb, Deputy Prime Minister ...... Windsor West ...... Lib. Grose, Ivan ...... Oshawa ...... Lib. Guarnieri, Albina ...... Mississauga East ...... Lib. Harb, Mac ...... Ottawa Centre ...... Lib. Ianno, Tony ...... Trinity—Spadina...... Lib. Jackson, Ovid L., Parliamentary Secretary to President of the Treasury Board ...... Bruce—Grey ...... Lib. Jones, Jim ...... Markham ...... PC Jordan, Joe ...... Leeds—Grenville ...... Lib. Karygiannis, Jim ...... Scarborough—Agincourt...... Lib. Keyes, Stan, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Transport ...... Hamilton West ...... Lib. Kilger, Bob ...... Stormont—Dundas ...... Lib. Knutson, Gar ...... Elgin—Middlesex—London...... Lib. Kraft Sloan, Karen, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of the Environment ...... York North ...... Lib. Lastewka, Walt, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Industry ...... St. Catharines ...... Lib. Lee, Derek ...... Scarborough—Rouge River ...... Lib. Longfield, Judi ...... Whitby—Ajax ...... Lib. Mahoney, Steve ...... Mississauga West ...... Lib. Malhi, Gurbax Singh ...... Bramalea—Gore—Malton...... Lib. Maloney, John ...... Erie—Lincoln ...... Lib. Manley, Hon. John, Minister of Industry ...... Ottawa South ...... Lib. Marchi, Hon. Sergio, Minister for International Trade ...... York West ...... Lib. Marleau, Hon. Diane, Minister for International Cooperation and Minister responsible for Francophonie ...... Sudbury ...... Lib. Hastings—Frontenac—Lennox and McCormick, Larry ...... Addington ...... Lib. McKay, John ...... Scarborough East ...... Lib. McTeague, Dan ...... Pickering—Ajax—Uxbridge...... Lib. Milliken, Peter, Deputy Speaker and Chairman of Committees of the Whole ...... Kingston and the Islands ...... Lib. Mills, Dennis J...... Broadview—Greenwood ...... Lib. Minna, Maria, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Citizenship and Immigration . . . Beaches—East York ...... Lib. Mitchell, Hon. Andy, Secretary of State (Parks) ...... Parry Sound—Muskoka...... Lib. Murray, Ian ...... Lanark—Carleton ...... Lib. Myers, Lynn ...... Waterloo—Wellington ...... Lib. Nault, Robert D., Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Human Resources Development ...... Kenora—Rainy River ...... Lib. Nunziata, John ...... York South—Weston ...... Ind. O’Brien, Pat ...... London —Fanshawe ...... Lib. O’Reilly, John ...... Victoria—Haliburton ...... Lib. 313
14
Political Name of Member Constituency Affiliation
Parent, Hon. Gilbert, Speaker ...... Niagara Centre ...... Lib. Parrish, Carolyn ...... Mississauga Centre ...... Lib. PeriŇ, Janko ...... Cambridge ...... Lib. Peterson, Hon. Jim, Secretary of State (International Financial Institutions) ...... Willowdale ...... Lib. Phinney, Beth ...... Hamilton Mountain ...... Lib. Pickard, Jerry, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Public Works and Government Services ...... Kent—Essex ...... Lib. Pillitteri, Gary ...... Niagara Falls ...... Lib. Pratt, David ...... Nepean—Carleton...... Lib. Provenzano, Carmen ...... Sault Ste. Marie ...... Lib. Redman, Karen ...... Kitchener Centre ...... Lib. Reed, Julian, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister for International Trade ...... Halton ...... Lib. Richardson, John, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of National Defence ...... Perth—Middlesex ...... Lib. Rock, Hon. Allan, Minister of Health ...... Etobicoke Centre ...... Lib. Serré, Benoît ...... Timiskaming—Cochrane...... Lib. Shepherd, Alex ...... Durham ...... Lib. Speller, Bob ...... Haldimand—Norfolk—Brant...... Lib. St. Denis, Brent ...... Algoma—Manitoulin ...... Lib. Steckle, Paul ...... Huron—Bruce ...... Lib. Stewart, Hon. Christine, Minister of the Environment ...... Northumberland ...... Lib. Stewart, Hon. Jane, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development ...... Brant ...... Lib. Szabo, Paul ...... Mississauga South ...... Lib. Telegdi, Andrew ...... Kitchener—Waterloo ...... Lib. Torsney, Paddy ...... Burlington ...... Lib. Ur, Rose–Marie ...... Lambton—Kent—Middlesex...... Lib. Valeri, Tony, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Finance ...... Stoney Creek ...... Lib. Vanclief, Hon. Lyle, Minister of Agriculture and Agri–Food ...... Prince Edward—Hastings ...... Lib. Volpe, Joseph, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Health ...... Eglinton—Lawrence...... Lib. Wappel, Tom ...... Scarborough Southwest ...... Lib. Whelan, Susan ...... Essex ...... Lib. Wilfert, Bryon ...... Oak Ridges ...... Lib. Wood, Bob ...... Nipissing ...... Lib.
PRINCE EDWARD ISLAND (4)
Easter, Wayne, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Fisheries and Oceans ...... Malpeque ...... Lib. MacAulay, Hon. Lawrence, Minister of Labour ...... Cardigan ...... Lib. McGuire, Joe ...... Egmont ...... Lib. Proud, George, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Veterans Affairs ...... Hillsborough ...... Lib.
QUEBEC (75)
Alarie, Hélène ...... Louis–Hébert ...... BQ Assad, Mark ...... Gatineau ...... Lib. Asselin, Gérard ...... Charlevoix ...... BQ Bachand, André ...... Richmond—Arthabaska...... PC Bachand, Claude ...... Saint–Jean ...... BQ Bakopanos, Eleni, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada ...... Ahuntsic ...... Lib. Bellehumeur, Michel ...... Berthier—Montcalm...... BQ Bergeron, Stéphane ...... Verchères ...... BQ Bonaventure—Gaspé—Îles–de–la– Bernier, Yvan ...... Madeleine—Pabok ...... BQ 314
15
Political Name of Member Constituency Affiliation
Bertrand, Robert ...... Pontiac—Gatineau—Labelle...... Lib. Bigras, Bernard ...... Rosemont ...... BQ Brien, Pierre ...... Témiscamingue ...... BQ Canuel, René ...... Matapédia—Matane ...... BQ Cauchon, Hon. Martin, Secretary of State (Economic Development Agency of Canada for the Regions of Quebec) ...... Outremont ...... Lib. Charbonneau, Yvon ...... Anjou—Rivière–des–Prairies ...... Lib. Charest, Hon. Jean J...... Sherbrooke ...... PC Chrétien, Right Hon. Jean, Prime Minister ...... Saint–Maurice ...... Lib. Chrétien, Jean–Guy ...... Frontenac—Mégantic ...... BQ Coderre, Denis ...... Bourassa ...... Lib. Kamouraska—Rivière–du–Loup— Crête, Paul ...... Témiscouata—Les Basques ...... BQ Dalphond–Guiral, Madeleine ...... Laval Centre ...... BQ de Savoye, Pierre ...... Portneuf ...... BQ Debien, Maud ...... Laval East ...... BQ Desrochers, Odina ...... Lotbinière ...... BQ Dion, Hon. Stéphane, President of the Queen’s Privy Council for Canada and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs ...... Saint–Laurent—Cartierville...... Lib. Discepola, Nick, Parliamentary Secretary to Solicitor General of Canada ...... Vaudreuil—Soulanges ...... Lib. Drouin, Claude ...... Beauce ...... Lib. Dubé, Antoine ...... Lévis ...... BQ Duceppe, Gilles ...... Laurier—Sainte–Marie...... BQ Dumas, Maurice ...... Argenteuil—Papineau ...... BQ Finestone, Hon. Sheila ...... Mount Royal ...... Lib. Folco, Raymonde ...... Laval West ...... Lib. Fournier, Ghislain ...... Manicouagan ...... BQ Gagliano, Hon. Alfonso, Minister of Public Works and Government Services ...... Saint–Léonard—Saint–Michel ...... Lib. Gagnon, Christiane ...... Québec ...... BQ Gauthier, Michel ...... Roberval ...... BQ Girard–Bujold, Jocelyne ...... Jonquière ...... BQ Godin, Maurice ...... Châteauguay ...... BQ Guay, Monique ...... Laurentides ...... BQ Guimond, Michel ...... Beauport—Montmorency—Orléans . . . . BQ Harvey, André ...... Chicoutimi ...... PC Jennings, Marlene ...... Notre–Dame–de–Grâce—Lachine ...... Lib. Lalonde, Francine ...... Mercier ...... BQ Laurin, René ...... Joliette ...... BQ Lavigne, Raymond ...... Verdun—Saint–Henri...... Lib. Lebel, Ghislain ...... Chambly ...... BQ Lefebvre, Réjean ...... Champlain ...... BQ Lincoln, Clifford ...... Lac–Saint–Louis ...... Lib. Loubier, Yvan ...... Saint–Hyacinthe—Bagot ...... BQ Marceau, Richard ...... Charlesbourg ...... BQ Marchand, Jean–Paul ...... Québec East ...... BQ Martin, Hon. Paul, Minister of Finance ...... LaSalle—Émard ...... Lib. Massé, Hon. Marcel, President of the Treasury Board and Minister responsible for Infrastructure ...... Hull—Aylmer ...... Lib. Ménard, Réal ...... Hochelaga—Maisonneuve...... BQ Mercier, Paul ...... Terrebonne—Blainville ...... BQ Normand, Hon. Gilbert, Secretary of State (Agriculture and Agri–Food) (Fisheries and Bellechasse—Etchemins— Oceans) ...... Montmagny—L’Islet ...... Lib. Paradis, Denis ...... Brome—Missisquoi ...... Lib. 315
16
Political Name of Member Constituency Affiliation
Patry, Bernard, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development ...... Pierrefonds—Dollard ...... Lib. Perron, Gilles–A...... Saint–Eustache—Sainte–Thérèse ...... BQ Pettigrew, Hon. Pierre S., Minister of Human Resources Development ...... Papineau—Saint–Denis ...... Lib. Picard, Pauline ...... Drummond ...... BQ Plamondon, Louis ...... Richelieu ...... BQ Price, David ...... Compton—Stanstead ...... PC Robillard, Hon. Lucienne, Minister of Citizenship and Immigration ...... Westmount—Ville–Marie ...... Lib. Rocheleau, Yves ...... Trois–Rivières ...... BQ Saada, Jacques ...... Brossard—La Prairie...... Lib. Sauvageau, Benoît ...... Repentigny ...... BQ St–Hilaire, Caroline ...... Longueuil ...... BQ St–Jacques, Diane ...... Shefford ...... PC St–Julien, Guy ...... Abitibi ...... Lib. Thibeault, Yolande, Assistant Deputy Chairman of Committees of the Whole ...... Saint–Lambert ...... Lib. Tremblay, Stéphan ...... Lac–Saint–Jean ...... BQ Tremblay, Suzanne ...... Rimouski—Mitis...... BQ Turp, Daniel ...... Beauharnois—Salaberry...... BQ Venne, Pierrette ...... Saint–Bruno—Saint–Hubert ...... BQ
SASKATCHEWAN (14)
Axworthy, Chris ...... Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar...... NDP Bailey, Roy ...... Souris—Moose Mountain ...... Ref. Breitkreuz, Garry ...... Yorkton—Melville ...... Ref. Goodale, Hon. Ralph E., Minister of Natural Resources and Minister responsible for the Canadian Wheat Board ...... Wascana ...... Lib. Kerpan, Allan ...... Blackstrap ...... Ref. Konrad, Derrek ...... Prince Albert ...... Ref. Laliberte, Rick ...... Churchill River ...... NDP Morrison, Lee ...... Cypress Hills—Grasslands...... Ref. Nystrom, Hon. Lorne ...... Qu’Appelle ...... NDP Pankiw, Jim ...... Saskatoon—Humboldt ...... Ref. Proctor, Dick ...... Palliser ...... NDP Ritz, Gerry ...... Battlefords—Lloydminster ...... Ref. Solomon, John ...... Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre ...... NDP Vellacott, Maurice ...... Wanuskewin ...... Ref.
YUKON (1)
Hardy, Louise ...... Yukon ...... NDP 316
17 LIST OF STANDING AND SUB–COMMITTEES (As of March 27, 1998 — 1st Session, 36th Parliament)
ABORIGINAL AFFAIRS AND NORTHERN DEVELOPMENT
Chairman: Guy St–Julien Vice–Chairmen: John Finlay Derrek Konrad
Claude Bachand David Iftody Judi Longfield Bernard Patry (16) John Bryden Nancy Karetak–Lindell Grant McNally Mike Scott Gordon Earle Gerald Keddy Lawrence O’Brien Bryon Wilfert Ghislain Fournier
Associate Members
Cliff Breitkreuz Pierre de Savoye Maurice Godin John Maloney René Canuel Reed Elley Rick Laliberte Maurice Vellacott Bill Casey
AGRICULTURE AND AGRI–FOOD
Chairman: Joe McGuire Vice–Chairmen: Murray Calder Jay Hill
Hélène Alarie Gerry Byrne John Harvard Dick Proctor (16) Leon Benoit Denis Coderre Jake Hoeppner Paul Steckle Paul Bonwick Odina Desrochers Larry McCormick Rose–Marie Ur Rick Borotsik
Associate Members
Peter Adams Michelle Dockrill John Maloney John Solomon Garry Breitkreuz Howard Hilstrom Lorne Nystrom Greg Thompson Pierre Brien Allan Kerpan Denis Paradis Myron Thompson Rick Casson Réjean Lefebvre Gilles Perron
CANADIAN HERITAGE
Chairman: Clifford Lincoln Vice–Chairmen: Jim Abbott Mauril Bélanger
Paul Bonwick Wendy Lill Deepak Obhrai Jacques Saada (16 ) Sarmite Bulte Dennis Mills Pat O’Brien Caroline St–Hilaire John Godfrey Mark Muise Jim Pankiw Suzanne Tremblay Joe Jordan
Associate Members
André Bachand Antoine Dubé Rick Laliberte George Proud Claude Bachand Maurice Dumas Francine Lalonde Carmen Provenzano Carolyn Bennett Gordon Earle Eric Lowther Nelson Riis Rick Borotsik Christiane Gagnon Peter G. MacKay Benoît Sauvageau Cliff Breitkreuz Albina Guarnieri Inky Mark John Solomon Pierre Brien Monique Guay Rey Pagtakhan Elsie Wayne Denis Coderre David Iftody Louis Plamondon Bob Wood 317
18
SUB–COMMITTEE ON THE STUDY OF SPORT IN CANADA
Chairman: Dennis Mills
Jim Abbott Albina Guarnieri Pat O’Brien Nelson Riis (9) Denis Coderre Peter G. MacKay George Proud Suzanne Tremblay
CITIZENSHIP AND IMMIGRATION
Chairman: Stan Dromisky Vice–Chairs: Raymonde Folco John Reynolds
Jean Augustine Louise Hardy John McKay Maria Minna (16) Sarmite Bulte M. Sophia Leung Grant McNally Deepak Obhrai Norman Doyle Steve Mahoney Réal Ménard Jacques Saada Jocelyne Girard–Bujold
Associate Members
Claude Bachand Libby Davies Patrick Martin Diane St–Jacques Pierre Brien Monique Guay Benoît Sauvageau Daniel Turp
ENVIRONMENT AND SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMENT
Chairman: Charles Caccia Vice–Chairmen: Bill Gilmour Gar Knutson
Sarkis Assadourian Aileen Carroll Roger Gallaway Karen Kraft Sloan (16) Gérard Asselin Rick Casson John Herron Rick Laliberte Bernard Bigras Yvon Charbonneau Joe Jordan David Pratt Chuck Cadman
Associate Members
Peter Adams John Duncan Louise Hardy Nelson Riis Hélène Alarie John Finlay Clifford Lincoln Benoît Sauvageau Leon Benoit Paul Forseth John Maloney Peter Stoffer Pierre Brien Maurice Godin David Price Stéphan Tremblay 318
19
FINANCE
Chairman: Maurizio Bevilacqua Vice–Chairs: Monte Solberg Paddy Torsney
Mark Assad David Iftody Gary Pillitteri Gerry Ritz (16) Scott Brison Yvan Loubier Karen Redman Paul Szabo Roger Gallaway Gilles Perron Nelson Riis Tony Valeri Dick Harris
Associate Members
Diane Ablonczy Odina Desrochers Jason Kenney Lynn Myers Rob Anders Nick Discepola Francine Lalonde Bob Nault André Bachand Norman Doyle René Laurin Lorne Nystrom Sue Barnes Antoine Dubé M. Sophia Leung Pauline Picard Carolyn Bennett Raymonde Folco Peter MacKay Charlie Power Rick Borotsik Joe Fontana Steve Mahoney Yves Rocheleau Claudette Bradshaw John Herron Larry McCormick Alex Shepherd Pierre Brien Dale Johnston Alexa McDonough John Solomon Jocelyne G. Bujold Jim Jones Bob Mills
FISHERIES AND OCEANS
Chairman: George Baker Vice–Chairmen: Charles Hubbard Gary Lunn
Yvan Bernier Nancy Karetak–Lindell Bill Matthews Yves Rocheleau (16) John Duncan Gar Knutson Lawrence O’Brien Paul Steckle Wayne Easter M. Sophia Leung Carmen Provenzano Peter Stoffer Howard Hilstrom
Associate Members
Gilles Bernier Ghislain Fournier Philip Mayfield Mike Scott René Canuel Bill Gilmour Svend Robinson Angela Vautour Paul Forseth
FOREIGN AFFAIRS AND INTERNATIONAL TRADE
Chairman: Bill Graham Vice–Chairs: Colleen Beaumier Bob Mills
Sarkis Assadourian Maud Debien Denis Paradis Benoît Sauvageau (18) Jean Augustine Raymonde Folco Charlie Penson Bob Speller André Bachand Gurmant Grewal Julian Reed Daniel Turp John Cannis Ted McWhinney Svend Robinson
Associate Members
Claude Bachand Aileen Carroll Keith Martin Karen Redman Sue Barnes Monique Guay Paul Mercier Nelson Riis Eugene Bellemare Joe Jordan Bob Nault Jacques Saada Bill Blaikie Jason Kenney Lorne Nystrom John Solomon Paul Bonwick Gary Lunn Deepak Obhrai Diane St–Jacques Claudette Bradshaw Gurbax Malhi Charlie Power Pierrette Venne Sarmite Bulte Richard Marceau George Proud Bryon Wilfert 319
20
SUB–COMMITTEE ON HUMAN RIGHTS AND INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT
Chair: Colleen Beaumier
Jean Augustine Claudette Bradshaw Raymonde Folco Svend Robinson (9) Paul Bonwick Maud Debien Keith Martin Diane St–Jacques
SUB–COMMITTEE ON INTERNATIONAL TRADE, TRADE DISPUTES AND INVESTMENT
Chairman: Bob Speller
André Bachand Sarmite Bulte Robert Nault Julian Reed (9) Bill Blaikie Raymonde Folco Charlie Penson Benoît Sauvageau
HEALTH
Chair: Beth Phinney Vice–Chairs: Elinor Caplan Reed Elley
Carolyn Bennett Grant Hill Pauline Picard Maurice Vellacott (16) Aileen Carroll Dan McTeague Greg Thompson Joseph Volpe Claude Drouin Lynn Myers Rose–Marie Ur Judy Wasylycia–Leis Maurice Dumas
Associate Members
Pierre Brien Antoine Dubé M. Sophia Leung Caroline St–Hilaire Libby Davies Christiane Gagnon Keith Martin Paul Szabo Pierre de Savoye Sharon Hayes Réal Ménard Stéphan Tremblay Michelle Dockrill John Herron
HUMAN RESOURCES DEVELOPMENT AND THE STATUS OF PERSONS WITH DISABILITIES
Chairman: Reg Alcock Vice–Chairs: Bonnie Brown Dale Johnston
Diane Ablonczy Brenda Chamberlain Jean Dubé Bob Nault (18) Rob Anders Paul Crête Christiane Gagnon Stéphan Tremblay Carolyn Bennett Libby Davies Albina Guarnieri Bryon Wilfert Claudette Bradshaw Nick Discepola Larry McCormick
Associate Members
Yvan Bernier Reed Elley Inky Mark Lorne Nystrom Pierre Brien Yvon Godin Patrick Martin Yves Rocheleau Jocelyne G. Bujold Sharon Hayes Réal Ménard Diane St–Jacques Madeleine Dalphond–Guiral Wendy Lill Maria Minna Angela Vautour Antoine Dubé 320
21
INDUSTRY
Chair: Susan Whelan Vice–Chairmen: Eugène Bellemare Werner Schmidt
Chris Axworthy Marlene Jennings Walt Lastewka Jim Pankiw (16) Bonnie Brown Jim Jones Eric Lowther Janko PeriŇ Antoine Dubé Francine Lalonde Ian Murray Alex Shepherd Tony Ianno
Associate Members
Peter Adams Pierre Brien Jean Dubé Réal Ménard Hélène Alarie Jocelyne G. Bujold Joe Fontana Nelson Riis Carolyn Bennett Sarmite Bulte Christiane Gagnon Benoît Sauvageau Bernard Bigras Chuck Cadman Rahim Jaffer John Solomon Paul Bonwick Nick Discepola Philip Mayfield Peter Stoffer
JUSTICE AND HUMAN RIGHTS
Chair: Shaughnessy Cohen Vice–Chairmen: Paul E. Forseth John Maloney
Eleni Bakopanos Nick Discepola Peter MacKay John McKay (16) Michel Bellehumeur Sheila Finestone Peter Mancini Jack Ramsay Garry Breitkreuz Derek Lee Richard Marceau Andrew Telegdi Paul DeVillers
Associate Members
Carolyn Bennett Christiane Gagnon Howard Hilstrom Svend Robinson Cliff Breitkreuz Michel Guimond Allan Kerpan Caroline St–Hilaire Pierre Brien Louise Hardy Keith Martin Diane St–Jacques Chuck Cadman Dick Harris Réal Ménard Myron Thompson Madeleine Dalphond–Guiral Sharon Hayes Mark Muise Stéphan Tremblay Pierre de Savoye
LIAISON
Chairman: Bill Graham Vice–Chair: Susan Whelan
Peter Adams Ray Bonin Derek Lee Beth Phinney (20) Reg Alcock Charles Caccia Clifford Lincoln Brent St. Denis George Baker Shaughnessy Cohen Gurbax Malhi Guy St–Julien Robert Bertrand Stan Dromisky Joe McGuire John Williams Maurizio Bevilacqua Sheila Finestone
Associate Members
Stéphane Bergeron Madeleine Dalphond–Guiral André Harvey
SUB–COMMITTEE ON BUDGET
Chairman : Bill Graham
Peter Adams Maurizio Bevilacqua André Harvey John Williams (8) George S. Baker Madeleine Dalphond–Guiral Susan Whelan 321
22
NATIONAL DEFENCE AND VETERANS AFFAIRS
Chairman: Robert Bertrand Vice–Chairmen: Art Hanger Bob Wood
Chris Axworthy Peter Goldring John O’Reilly George Proud (16) Leon Benoit Judi Longfield David Pratt John Richardson Hec Clouthier Pat O’Brien David Price Pierrette Venne Maurice Godin
Associate Members
Pierre Brien Jim Hart Patrick Martin Daniel Turp Denis Coderre John Maloney Bob Mills Elsie Wayne Monique Guay Peter Mancini
NATURAL RESOURCES AND GOVERNMENT OPERATIONS
Chairman: Brent St. Denis Vice–Chairmen: David Chatters Ben Serré
Réginald Bélair Roy Cullen Jim Gouk Carmen Provenzano (16) Gilles Bernier Pierre de Savoye Ovid Jackson Darrel Stinson Jocelyne G. Bujold Yvon Godin Jerry Pickard Bob Wood Gerry Byrne
Associate Members
Hélène Alarie Jean–Guy Chrétien Gerald Keddy Gilles Perron Chris Axworthy Ghislain Fournier Derrek Konrad Nelson Riis Bernard Bigras Bill Gilmour René Laurin Angela Vautour Pierre Brien Jim Jones Réjean Lefebvre Maurice Vellacott René Canuel
PROCEDURE AND HOUSE AFFAIRS
Chairman: Peter Adams Vice–Chairs: Marlene Catterall Chuck Strahl
George Baker Ken Epp Bob Kilger John Richardson (16) Stéphane Bergeron Mac Harb Rey Pagtakhan John Solomon Yvon Charbonneau André Harvey Carolyn Parrish Randy White Madeleine Dalphond–Guiral
Associate Members
Michel Bellehumeur Garry Breitkreuz Jay Hill Réal Ménard Bill Blaikie Michelle Dockrill René Laurin Suzanne Tremblay Don Boudria Norman Doyle Bill Matthews
SUB–COMMITTEE ON MEMBERS’ SERVICES
Chairman: Randy White
Garry Breitkreuz André Harvey Bob Kilger John Solomon (6) Madeleine Dalphond–Guiral 322
23
SUB–COMMITTEE ON PRIVATE MEMBERS’ BUSINESS
Chair: Carolyn Parrish
William Blaikie Madeleine Dalphond–Guiral Ken Epp André Harvey (6) Yvon Charbonneau
SUB–COMMITTEE ON THE SITTINGS OF THE HOUSE
Chairman: Bob Kilger
Stéphane Bergeron Don Boudria André Harvey Randy White (6) Bill Blaikie
PUBLIC ACCOUNTS
Chairman: John Williams Vice–Chairmen: Ivan Grose Andrew Telegdi
Mark Assad Gurmant Grewal Steve Mahoney Lorne Nystrom (17) Sue Barnes Mac Harb Philip Mayfield Rey Pagtakhan Elinor Caplan Jason Kenney Lynn Myers Elsie Wayne Odina Desrochers René Laurin
Associate Members
Roy Bailey Rick Casson Michel Guimond Gilles Perron Garry Breitkreuz Bev Desjarlais Jim Jones Alex Shepherd Scott Brison Michelle Dockrill Derrek Konrad Peter Stoffer Jocelyne G. Bujold Antoine Dubé Denis Paradis
TRANSPORT
Chairman: Raymond Bonin Vice–Chairmen: Roy Cullen Lee Morrison
Roy Bailey Bev Desjarlais Ivan Grose Inky Mark (16) Murray Calder Claude Drouin Michel Guimond Paul Mercier John Cannis Joe Fontana Stan Keyes Carolyn Parrish Bill Casey
Associate Members
Chris Axworthy Pierre Brien Ghislain Fournier Yves Rocheleau Yvan Bernier Paul Crête Rick Laliberte Elsie Wayne Rick Borotsik John Cummins John Maloney 323
24
STANDING JOINT COMMITTEES LIBRARY OF PARLIAMENT
Joint–Chairmen: Philippe D. Gigantès Joint Vice–Chairman: Philip Mayfield Gurbax Malhi
Representing the Senate: Representing the House of Commons: The Honourable Senators
Roch Bolduc Richard J. Doyle Marlene Catterall Wendy Lill (23) Eymard G. Corbin Jerahmiel S. Grafstein Hec Clouthier Paul Mercier Mabel M. DeWare Louis J. Robichaud John Finlay Louis Plamondon Deborah Grey David Price Howard Hilstrom Karen Redman Jim Karygiannis Jacques Saada Raymond Lavigne Brent St. Denis
Associate Members
Libby Davies Maurice Dumas
OFFICIAL LANGUAGES
Joint Chairs: Sen. Rose–Marie Losier–Cool Joint Vice–Chairmen: Denis Coderre Sheila Finestone Rahim Jaffer
Representing the Senate: Representing the House of Commons: The Honourable Senators
Gérald A. Beaudoin Fernand Robichaud Eugène Bellemare Ted McWhinney (25) Jean–Robert Gauthier Louis J. Robichaud Claudette Bradshaw Val Meredith Noël A. Kinsella Lucie Pépin Cliff Breitkreuz Mark Muise Jean–Claude Rivest Jean–Maurice Simard John Godfrey Denis Paradis Yvon Godin Louis Plamondon Bob Kilger Suzanne Tremblay Dan McTeague
Associate Members
Pierre Brien Angela Vautour Lorne Nystrom 324
25
SCRUTINY OF REGULATIONS
Joint Chairs: Céline Hervieux–Payette Joint Vice–Chairman: Ted White Derek Lee
Representing the Senate: Representing the House of Commons: The Honourable Senators
Michael Cogger P. Derek Lewis John Bryden John Maloney (25) Marisa Barth Ferretti Léonce Mercier Bill Casey Inky Mark Normand Grimard Wilfred P. Moore Paul DeVillers Ian Murray William M. Kelly Ken Epp Lorne Nystrom Marlene Jennings Alex Shepherd Ghislain Lebel Caroline St–Hilaire Gary Lunn Tom Wappel Gurbax Malhi
Associate Members
Chris Axworthy Michel Guimond Michel Bellehumeur Richard Marceau
SPECIAL JOINT COMMITTEE
CHILD CUSTODY AND ACCESS
Joint Chairs: Landon Pearson Roger Gallaway
Representing the Senate: Representing the House of Commons: The Honourable Senators
Peter Bosa Mabel M. DeWare Eleni Bakopanos Judi Longfield (23) Erminie J. Cohen Duncan J. Jessiman Carolyn Bennett Eric Lowther Anne C. Cools Wilfred P. Moore Robert Bertrand Gary Lunn Madeleine Dalphond–Guiral Peter Mancini Sheila Finestone Denis Paradis Paul E. Forseth Caroline St–Hilaire John Harvard Diane St–Jacques Nancy Karetak–Lindell 325
26
The Speaker
HON. GILBERT PARENT
Panels of Chairmen of Legislative Committees
The Deputy Speaker and Chairman of Committees of the Whole
MR. PETER MILLIKEN
The Deputy Chairman of Committees of the Whole
MR. IAN MCCLELLAND
The Assistant Deputy Chairman of Commitees of the Whole
MRS. YOLANDE THIBEAULT 326
27 THE MINISTRY
According to precedence
The Right Hon. Jean Chrétien Prime Minister The Hon. Herb Gray Deputy Prime Minister The Hon. Lloyd Axworthy Minister of Foreign Affairs The Hon. David M. Collenette Minister of Transport The Hon. David Anderson Minister of Fisheries and Oceans The Hon. Ralph E. Goodale Minister of Natural Resources and Minister responsible for the Canadian Wheat Board The Hon. Sheila Copps Minister of Canadian Heritage The Hon. Sergio Marchi Minister for International Trade The Hon. John Manley Minister of Industry The Hon. Diane Marleau Minister for International Cooperation and Minister responsible for Francophonie The Hon. Paul Martin Minister of Finance The Hon. Arthur C. Eggleton Minister of National Defence The Hon. Marcel Massé President of the Treasury Board and Minister responsible for Infrastructure The Hon. Anne McLellan Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada The Hon. Allan Rock Minister of Health The Hon. Lawrence MacAulay Minister of Labour The Hon. Christine Stewart Minister of the Environment The Hon. Alfonso Gagliano Minister of Public Works and Government Services The Hon. Lucienne Robillard Minister of Citizenship and Immigration The Hon. Fred Mifflin Minister of Veterans Affairs and Secretary of State (Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency) The Hon. Jane Stewart Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development The Hon. Stéphane Dion President of the Queen’s Privy Council for Canada and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs The Hon. Pierre S. Pettigrew Minister of Human Resources Development The Hon. Don Boudria Leader of the Government in the House of Commons The Hon. Alasdair Graham Leader of the Government in the Senate The Hon. Lyle Vanclief Minister of Agriculture and Agri–Food The Hon. Harbance Singh Dhaliwal Minister of National Revenue The Hon. Andy Scott Solicitor General of Canada The Hon. Ethel Blondin–Andrew Secretary of State (Children and Youth) The Hon. Raymond Chan Secretary of State (Asia–Pacific) The Hon. Martin Cauchon Secretary of State (Economic Development Agency of Canada for the Regions of Quebec) The Hon. Hedy Fry Secretary of State (Multiculturalism) (Status of Women) The Hon. David Kilgour Secretary of State (Latin America and Africa) The Hon. Jim Peterson Secretary of State (International Financial Institutions) The Hon. Ronald J. Duhamel Secretary of State (Science, Research and Development) (Western Economic Diversification) The Hon. Andrew Mitchell Secretary of State (Parks) The Hon. Gilbert Normand Secretary of State (Agriculture and Agri–Food)(Fisheries and Oceans) 327
28 PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARIES
Rey D. Pagtakhan to Prime Minister Ted McWhinney to Minister of Foreign Affairs Stan Keyes to Minister of Transport Wayne Easter to Minister of Fisheries and Oceans Gerry Byrne to Minister of Natural Resources John Godfrey to Minister of Canadian Heritage Julian Reed to Minister for International Trade Walt Lastewka to Minister of Industry Claudette Bradshaw to Minister for International Cooperation Tony Valeri to Minister of Finance John Richardson to Minister of National Defence Ovid L. Jackson to President of the Treasury Board Eleni Bakopanos to Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada Joseph Volpe to Minister of Health Brenda Chamberlain to Minister of Labour Karen Kraft Sloan to Minister of the Environment Jerry Pickard to Minister of Public Works and Government Services Maria Minna to Minister of Citizenship and Immigration George Proud to Minister of Veterans Affairs Bernard Patry to Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development Paul DeVillers to President of the Queen’s Privy Council for Canada and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs Robert D. Nault to Minister of Human Resources Development Peter Adams to Leader of the Government in the House of Commons John Harvard to Minister of Agriculture and Agri–Food Sue Barnes to Minister of National Revenue Nick Discepola to Solicitor General of Canada 328 329
CONTENTS
Friday, March 27, 1998
GOVERNMENT ORDERS Mr. Epp ...... 5463 Mr. Volpe ...... 5463 Canada Grain Act Mr. Epp ...... 5463 Bill C–26. Second reading ...... 5451 Mr. Volpe ...... 5463 Ms. Fry ...... 5451 Mr. Harvard ...... 5451 Option Canada Mr. Hill (Prince George—Peace River) ...... 5455 Mrs. Tremblay...... 5463 Ms. Copps ...... 5463 STATEMENTS BY MEMBERS Mrs. Tremblay ...... 5463 Ms. Copps ...... 5463 MPs Versus Pages Hockey Game Ms. Copps ...... 5463 Mr. Pratt...... 5458 Ms. Alarie ...... 5463 Ms. Copps ...... 5464 Technology Partnerships Canada Mr. Marceau ...... 5464 Mr. Steckle...... 5459 Ms. Copps ...... 5464 Dehydration Industry Mr. Marceau ...... 5464 Mr. Konrad...... 5459 Ms. Copps ...... 5464 Ms. Alarie ...... 5464 Immigration Ms. Copps ...... 5464 Mr. McKay...... 5459 Mr. Marceau ...... 5464 Agriculture Ms. Copps ...... 5464 Mrs. Ur...... 5459 Banking Fisheries Ms. McDonough...... 5464 Mr. Duncan...... 5459 Mr. Chrétien (Saint–Maurice) ...... 5464 Ms. McDonough ...... 5464 Member for Sherbrooke Mr. Chrétien (Saint–Maurice) ...... 5464 Mr. St–Julien ...... 5460 Pensions Ice Storm 1998 Mr. Muise...... 5464 Mr. Clouthier...... 5460 Mr. Goodale ...... 5465 British Columbia Byelection Mr. Muise ...... 5465 Ms. Meredith...... 5460 Mr. Anderson ...... 5465 World Theatre Day Aboriginal Affairs Mrs. Guay...... 5460 Mr. Scott (Skeena)...... 5465 Ms. Copps ...... 5465 Infrastructure Mr. Scott (Skeena) ...... 5465 Mr. Harvard...... 5461 Ms. Copps ...... 5465 Hepatitis C Commission on Future of Mirabel Airport Ms. Desjarlais...... 5461 Mr. Guimond...... 5465 British Columbia Mr. Collenette ...... 5466 Mr. Harb...... 5461 Mr. Guimond ...... 5466 Mr. Collenette ...... 5466 Commission on Future of Mirabel Airport Mr. Dumas...... 5461 Shipping Mr. Hill (Prince George—Peace River) ...... 5466 Judicial System in Restigouche Region Mr. Anderson ...... 5466 ...... Mr. Dubé (Madawaska—Restigouche) 5461 Mr. Hill (Prince George—Peace River) ...... 5466 The Kidney Foundation Mr. Anderson ...... 5466 Mr. Volpe...... 5462 Varennes Tokamak Mr. Bergeron...... 5466 ORAL QUESTION PERIOD Mrs. Stewart (Northumberland) ...... 5467 Mr. Bergeron ...... 5467 Hepatitis C Mr. Goodale ...... 5467 Mr. Hill (Macleod)...... 5462 Mr. Volpe ...... 5462 Transport Mr. Hill (Macleod) ...... 5462 Ms. Meredith...... 5467 Mr. Volpe ...... 5462 Mr. Eggleton ...... 5467 Mr. Hill (Macleod) ...... 5462 Ms. Meredith ...... 5467 Mr. Volpe ...... 5463 Mr. Eggleton ...... 5467 330
Herbicides Points of Order Mr. Laurin...... 5467 Big Bob Mr. Vanclief ...... 5468 Mrs. Bradshaw...... 5471 Tourism Ms. Whelan...... 5468 ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS Mr. Lastewka ...... 5468 Order in Council Appointments Aboriginal Affairs Mr. Adams...... 5472 Mr. Stinson...... 5468 Government response to petitions Ms. Copps ...... 5468 Mr. Adams...... 5472 Mr. Konrad ...... 5468 Ms. Copps ...... 5468 House Committees Justice and Human Rights Disability Pensions Mr. McKay...... 5472 Mr. Godin (Acadie—Bathurst) ...... 5468 Mr. Goodale ...... 5469 Petitions National Defence Nuclear Weapons Mr. Gilmour...... 5472 Mr. Earle...... 5469 Mr. Eggleton ...... 5469 Goods and Services Tax Mr. Gilmour...... 5472 Highways Prostate Cancer Mr. Harvey...... 5469 Mr. Cummins...... 5472 Mr. Collenette ...... 5469 Mr. Harvey ...... 5469 Questions on the Order Paper Mr. Collenette ...... 5469 Mr. Adams ...... 5472 Forestry GOVERNMENT ORDERS Mr. Serré ...... 5469 Mr. Goodale ...... 5469 Canada Grain Act Taxation Bill C–26. Second reading ...... 5473 Mr. Lowther...... 5470 Mr. Hill (Prince George—Peace River) ...... 5473 Mr. Peterson ...... 5470 Ms. Alarie ...... 5475 Mr. Martin (Winnipeg Centre) ...... 5475 Coast Guard Radio Station Mr. Kilger ...... 5478 ...... Mr. Canuel 5470 Motion ...... 5478 Mr. Anderson ...... 5470 (Motion agreed to) ...... 5478 Atomic Energy of Canada Limited Mr. Bailey ...... 5478 Mr. Martin (Winnipeg Centre)...... 5470 Mr. Martin (Winnipeg Centre) ...... 5479 Mr. Goodale ...... 5470 Mr. Harvard ...... 5479 Mr. Hill (Prince George—Peace River) ...... 5479 Fisheries Mr. Harvard ...... 5479 Mr. Power...... 5471 Mr. Martin (Winnipeg Centre) ...... 5479 Mr. Anderson ...... 5471 Mr. Keddy ...... 5479 National Defence Mr. Hill (Prince George—Peace River) ...... 5480 Mr. Bertrand...... 5471 Mr. Keddy ...... 5481 Mr. Eggleton ...... 5471 Mr. Harvard ...... 5481 (Motion agreed to, bill read the second time and referred Railways to a committee) ...... 5481 Mr. Morrison...... 5471 Mr. Collenette ...... 5471 Appendix 331 MāāAāāIāāL PāOāSāTāE Canada Post Corporation/Société canadienne des postes Postage paid Port payé Lettermail Poste-lettre 03159442 Ottawa
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GRANGER HER MAJESTY THE QUEEN IN RIGHT Plaintiff - and - OF THE PROVINCE OF ONTARIO Court File No.: CV-18-00598257-CP Defendants
ONTARIO SUPERIOR COURT OF JUSTICE
Proceeding commenced at TORONTO
Proceeding under the Class Proceeding Act, 1992
MOTION RECORD OF THE PLAINTIFF (CERTIFICATION) (Returnable November 27 & 28, 2019)
VOLUME I of II
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