University of Illinois at Springfield
Norris L Brookens Library
Archives/Special Collections
Stan Catherwood Memoir
C286.Catherwood, Stan b. 1921 Interview and memoir 5 tapes, 370 mins., 69 pp.
Catherwood discusses his WWII navy experiences: service on the U.S.S. Tide, combat experiences, shipyard work, and military duties. He also discusses his father's medal of honor from WWI, education, businesses in Springfield, the Depression, career at Allis Chalmers, and interest in aviation. Interview by Steve Bolin, 1986 OPEN See collateral file
Archives/Special Collections LIB 144 University of Illinois at Springfield One University Plaza, MS BRK 140 Springfield IL 62703-5407
© 1986, University of Illinois Board of Trustees Table of contents
Family Background • 1
WOrld War II Experiences. .11
Reunion of USB Tide SW:Vivors • .25
work:irg in the Shipycn:ds. • .29
Married Life. • .33 Workir:q at Allis Olalmers • .36
Politics. • .41 Illinois State Fair • .42
Depression Years. • .44
School. • .47
Father's Medal of Honor • • 0 .49 Aviation. .52
Stan Catherwood Memoir - Archives/Special Collections - Norris L Brookens Library - University of Illinois at Springfield - UIS Preface
'!his maruscript is the produc:t. of four taped interviews COlXiucted by steve Bolin for the oral History Office durin:f the fall of 1986. steve Bolin transcribed the tapes am edited the transcript. stan cathe.t:wood reviewed the transcript. stan catherwood was bom in Sprirgfield, Illinois on November 6, 1921. His father, John HUgh catherwood had eazned the con;,ressional Medal of Honor for service in the Blilippines. After an interval in Chester, Illinois, Stan's family IICVed back to Sprinjfield. Despite adversity during the Great Depression he was able to graduate fran I.anphier High School. D.J.rin:;J his high SChool years he was employed at the Ol:J?heum '!heater as an usher.
In 1943 he enlisted for chlty in the United states Navy. Assigned to the uss Tide which on JUne 7, 1944 was SW1k by two mines, Stan spent alncst ei9liE months in military hospitals reaoverirq fran injuries. In 1945 stan returned to Sprirgfield ani began his thirty year career with Allis Chalmers. In the late forties he began flyirq small airplanes eventually owinq a J-2 ani later a Taylor craft. In the 1950s he began a career in p:::>litics. For twenty years he served as a Democrat on the Sangamon COUnty Board.
Steve Bolin was a frien:l of the catherwood family by way of membership at the same church. Prior frierrlsh.ip with Gary Cathel:wood, Stan 1 s son, led to the desire to interview Stan for an oral history. Steve m:JVed to Springfield in 1975. He fiished schoo1i.rq there am then atterxied both Moody Bible Institute ani Lincoln Land community College before enterin:j ~ State university as an uOOergraduate major in the history progz:am.
Readers of the oral history lnl!lOOir should bear in mini that it is a transcript of the spoken word, an:i that the interviawer, narrator and editor sooght to preseJ:Ve the infonual, conversational style that is inherent in such historical sources. ~ state University is not responsible for the factual aocura.cy of the IriEm:)ir, nor for views expressEd therein; these are for the reader to judge.
'Ihe manuscript may be read, quoted ani cited freely. It may not be reproduced in whole or in part by arry :means, electronic or mechanical, without permission in writ:i.rg from the oral History Office, Sargamon State unlversity, Spr~ield, Illinois 62794-9243.
Stan Catherwood Memoir - Archives/Special Collections - Norris L Brookens Library - University of Illinois at Springfield - UIS Stan Ca:therwood, o::tober 31, 1986, Sprirgfield, Illinois. steve Bolin, InteJ::viewer.
Q: Could you give us your name please?
A: Alfl:a:l stanley catherwood. Q: okay, Mr. catherwood, oould you also give us your birthdate please?
A: I was bom an November 6, 1921, at Sprirgfield, Illinois.
Q: COUld you give us your parents 1 names?
A: It was Dolly A. ca:therwood ani John Hugh catherwood. My father was the seventh in line with the name of JC'Ihn HUgh.
Q: Okay. '!hat was Jr¥ seoc:ni question, I was qoin;J to ask you, if there was any traditional name in your family.
A: Well there is. My ~ named John, he was named after rrrt brother John Hugh catherwood.
Q: Do ytlU remember yollr parents I birthdates? A: No, I don't.
Q: Y'aJ. don't?
A: I'll soon be 65 years old in two weeks, or one week rather, and at this time I don't remember. I think that JI¥ father was ten years older than lfti mother. I think she was bom in 1888, am that would make Jirf father's birthdate ten years prior to that.
Q: Okay. Do you kr'1ow where they were bom?
A: He was bom in SprirgfieJ.d, Illinois, ani she was bom in Cora City.
Q: Is that in Illinois?
A: Yes.
Q: NCM do you know heM they met? Do you remember?
Stan Catherwood Memoir - Archives/Special Collections - Norris L Brookens Library - University of Illinois at Springfield - UIS stan cath.erwocxi 2
A: Well, I really don't :la'DI exactly how they met, but~ had a frierd Myrtle Olffee that was a friend. of her's until the time she died. But, I actually don't remember.
Q: Did you know when they married?
A: It was 1918 but I don't remember the exact date of either.
Q: Ik:> you remember your gran:lparents' names? A: '!bey was D:Uly-pardon me. It was • • • Q: You can't remember right not? A: I don't remember.
Q: Okay, that's fine. Did you have any brothers or sisters?
A: Cb yes, I had a bl.'Cther named John Hugh.
Q: was he the first :born? A: Yes.
Q: Okay. I:b you know when he was born? A: February 14, 1919. Q: Ib you have any other brothers or sisters?
A: No, I had one sister named. Bonnie Faye. Q: Ik:> you know when she was born?
A: She was born in 1927, but actually I don't remember the exact date.
Q: Arri so you were the second oldest of the children in your family? A: Yes, I was.
Q: Okay. What do you know about your family's su.mame-catherwood? A: Well, it originally is Scottish ani-onoe we were over to • (tape stc:lpJ;.led) It was in Inverness, SCX>tlan:l.
Q: Is there a.nyt;hirg else you remember about your name?
A: At the p:>int there was a castle named in honor of them. Arri the reasal I know that is, a distant cc:usin of mine, of scotty-or En;Jlish descent, told me about that. We never knew about it until the time we got back-I CCII'lta.cted him by wil:e. Ard then he said, "If you'd been in Inverness you was within five miles of that castle." So I never did see it at that time.
Stan Catherwood Memoir - Archives/Special Collections - Norris L Brookens Library - University of Illinois at Springfield - UIS stan catherwood 3
Q: so, you went to visit in sootlard?
A: Yes. I've :been there four times. (laughs)
Q: Folr times? When was the last time you went?
A: 'Ihree years ago.
Q: 'Ihree years aqo?
A: Yes.
Q: Okay, so you have sane ties with your family or with an;ybody over in scotlam?
A: well, no-just good frierXls.
Q: Good frierx3s, okay. Does the name catherwood have any significant meanini? A: Yes, it means ••• there's a certain meani.nq. It means the ••• I dal't :remember.
well, we can always cane back to
A: SUrely.
Q: So your family wasn't really a large family?
A: No, there was only 26 of us in the united states by-we oontact.ed a local • • • well, they was a local-it tells W.ere you were bon1 and all that, b.It • • •
Q: A genealogical society?
A: Yes, yes.
Q: Okay, sure. D:> you ever have ramions with your family?
A: No, bJt the only reunicn -we have is with 11r:f ship.
Q: Now you said you were bon1 in Springfield--where exactly did you grow up?
A: I lived the first years of llr:f life in
Stan Catherwood Memoir - Archives/Special Collections - Norris L Brookens Library - University of Illinois at Springfield - UIS stan catherwood 4
what the person was sayin:J. So, we had ll'OVies-ta.J..kin;J movies before anyone. {laughter)
Q: so, they had-it was subtitles? A: Yes.
Q: Now were these navies or cartoons? A: Well, mainly D¥:Wies.
Q: Movies?
A: Yes.
Q: You said the person that did Popeye was there? Was that the cartoon character?
A: Yes, yes. He was the originator of Popeye-in other words. You crossed the bridge, ani you see in Illinois there's a Popeye sta'ble made of bronze. It st:an:::ls about six feet tall ani says, "Cllester, Illinois, weloane to the lani of Popeye." Ard evecythirg else is all-Popeye is the one thin;1 that was interestin;J about it.
Popeye was-well he originally-well he left Cllester broke. He was not nearly well-to-do as he "WOUld be later on. But his niece was in my class. In the first grade we remember her. 'Ihe poor little t.ltin] she was always down trockien. She was the worst kid in school-as far as looks goes, but you would never knef..l that she had a rich uncle.
Q: I)) you remember her uncle's name?
A: Elze.
Q: Ani what was her name? I)) you remember?
A: '!bat's a few years back, I don •t knc7.tl.
Q: Ani do you remember her husbani' s name? A: No, I don't. Q: Okay.
A: see it was in the first grade.
Q: Yes, that was a lorg time ago.
A: '!hat was a good lcn;J time ago ••• {laughs) Q: Okay, could~ ahead.
A: Everyone tries to remember their first grade teacher, but mine was Procter [Potter] • She was a first grade teacher at Pleasant Hill or Cl'lester Grade SChool. Her uncle-her husbani rather was guaJ:d at the
Stan Catherwood Memoir - Archives/Special Collections - Norris L Brookens Library - University of Illinois at Springfield - UIS stan catherwood 5
prison. It seemed like m:JSt of the few ~le that aiOOm1'ted. to cinyt:hin;J-had a [job as] guam at the prl.SOl'l.
'!here was such a few anYJUl'lt of iniustries there. '!hey lived there until many years aftel:Ward. But, I don't knc:lw hc7.rl many of them are still alive, or What they are doirg. You knc:lw they say that one out of all-every blrxtl would annmt to sauethin;J, b.1t I don 1 t kncM 'Which one it would be.
Q: Okay. Where exactly is Chester in Illinois?
A: Chester is aJ:x:ut 160 miles south of sprin;Jfield. It was on the Mississippi River, an:i we would watch the steamboats oane in. We 'WOUld go bane an:i announce that there was goirg to be a showboat that night. Ar¥:l they always pll.led-two boats would p.lll the thing alorg, an:i they had quite a show because there was-well about fifty years ago rDW, ani you can imaqine the thi.rgs that would take place then that would not take place today.
'!here was no television. We had one of the first wireless radios arc:JUni here, am we had a llun:h'ed am fifty foot antenna on it. we 'WOUld get P\NX tcs An:Je].es, california, am, of ca.m;e WIS Chicago. But people would caDe fran ara:ni to listen to I8d' s old radio. It had. . a. lon;. speaker like that to it (DK:Jtia'1S with han::Js) an:i dials, ani
Q: NoW the speaker would C'lUl:Ve up like a mega};ilone?
A: Yes.
Q: Okay. Now-so Chester was a small town?
A: It was very small. But, all ~ ancestors qrew up there. 'Ibis last week I went to a weddin;J of my-well, I' 11 call her a O'JUSin because that's all that we :knew each ather by (laughs) is cousins. But, the one that was-she was l:Jeirq married-there was over a t.hc:Jusani people at the weddin;J, arr:l it was a beautiful wedding. She went to Honolulu, Hawaii on her 1:loneyno:rt.
Q: NcM you "Were sayirg about Olester, it was on the river so did they have a lot of-was a lot of the CXIIIIDBrOe river business?
A: Wall, not much. 'lhere was sane barge traffic in there, but mostly sand an:i gravel out of the river-arxi, of caJ.rSe we had to look out for floc:ds.
In 1927, I reuanber a flood that was terrible. Dead horses came floatin;J doWn the river as well as many animals. Ar¥:l it was quite-the t:hin:J. But, as far as your eye could see was water. I saw a packed boat go up to sane upstairs windows am rescue sane people out of their abode, am take them to safety. But that grourd was three miles fran what the river was.
Q: So that was a pretty bad flood?
Stan Catherwood Memoir - Archives/Special Collections - Norris L Brookens Library - University of Illinois at Springfield - UIS Stan cat:hawood 6
A: Yes, it was.
Q: lbl did it flood regularly b.rt not as :uuc.h?
A: No, that was the only one that I :r:ememher. '!his year there was sane floodin;, l:ut ~ as bad as that.
Q: You also :n&'ltioned sanet.hing about a penitentiary. Was there a penitentiary in the area?
A: Ch yes. '!here was the SCUthem Illinois Penitentiary there. Ani my father worked there as a guard at Number one Gua:r:d House. But • .
Q: And you said that many people in the area were employed there?
A: Yes.
Q: Okay. SO that was probably the major •••
A: Yes, it was. In that arxi the shoe factory.
Q: Shoe facto:r:y?
A: Yes, arxi the knitti.rg mill.
Q: What was the name of it?
A: Kni.ttirg mill. You know where they make silk st:ocki.n;s.
Q: Do Yt"U remember the names of those b.lsinesses?
A: Intemational Shoe Facto:r:y •••
Q: Now did you know anyone that worked there, anybody in your family work there?
A: My own dad did •••
Q: He did • • • arxi do you remember the name of the knitt~ facto:r:y? A: No, I don't. Rainey Miliqan was employed there.
Q: lt'JO was Rodney?
A: He was a distant relation of mine. But, I UIXierst:an:i that he is either dyiD"J or has died. He's at the point of death right l'lCM. Q: Now w are tal.kirlg primaril¥ about the l920s am maybe thirties here. What was it like livin;;r m that time period? Do you remember?
A: 'Well, my father died When my sister was only three years old, I was eight, ani my brother was nine or twelve years old. At that time we had one thousani dollars to live a1, and no jobs available. we stayed the:r:e until-November 18 is when he died-until Ja.nuaey 1 of
Stan Catherwood Memoir - Archives/Special Collections - Norris L Brookens Library - University of Illinois at Springfield - UIS Stan ca.t:hel:wood 7
that canin;J year. 'lhen we came to Sprin;rfield, Illinois. But, the odd place of this was Griffe • a-Griffe • s was the ones that moved us. we called them, they spent their time goin;J dc:Mn there ard getting all of the furniture loaded ard ncvin;J us back, ard movin;J us into this place for one h1.Jnjred dollars. 'ttlat was three men that did that.
Well, after we was ~ ready to move in we -went across the street ani I asked if we could use their tele:J;hone. we said, we want to call Griffe's. "Boy, you mean right aver there?" .Arxi he lived one street across from us-no, one street across. so, it was odd how he ncved us real close.
Q: Now who was Griffe? A: 'lhey was a finn that 1IVJVed people.
Q: Okay, ard that was a Spri.rqfield finn?
A: Yes.
Q: Ani they helped your family move up here?
A: Yes. But after that we had to tJ:y to get jobs that-a quarter a day, or scmeth.in;J like that~ to 1l'ICM the lawns or rake leaves. I forget rrM the name of the person that I did do that, but she was a good :person. But, I walked all the way across 1:c:Mn in order-well, it was about, let's see about four miles at least in order to get the job. we would cane bane with that ard we would have enough m:mey. so we could stop at the store ard we would buy hamburger ard buns or sanet:hin;J like that, ard my mother would make qravy. .Arxi that way provided us for supper.
Q: It SO\ll'rled like you really liked the qravy. (laughter) A: Well, I love it yet.
Q: so you ard your brother John 'WOUld take on odd jabs to help support your family?
A: Yes. We later on-he had a jab at the OJ:pheum '!heater as an usher. But I said, "Well, I •m goin;J to get one too. 11 Well, we worked there for about four years, ard at that time we were in high school. we worked twenty-eight, thirty hours for four dollars. we would see any show in town that was the good part of it.
Q: What year was that? Do you remember?
A: 1936 until 19401 an:i at that time I graduated from Ianphier High School.
Q: Now did your brother go to school too?
A: Yes, he went to Sprin;rfield [High School] ••
Q: Really 1 was there a reason for goin;J to different schools?
Stan Catherwood Memoir - Archives/Special Collections - Norris L Brookens Library - University of Illinois at Springfield - UIS stan catherwood 8
A: No.
Q: Just the way it turned out? A: I figured I c::oul.d make it there a little easier. (laughter)
Q: Okay. Now did yoor sister go to school arrfi
A: She had enough brains to get her degree fran college. She went to-where the catholic seminary, what is it call? [Oll] North Fifth street?
Q: Ursuline. A: No, it's right next door to that. Springfield JUnior COllege. Q: Okay.
A: Yes.
Q: Ani what did she get her degree in?
A: well, business management. later on she went to Utbana, it's right next to . • .
Q: Bloanirgton?
A: Yes, that's the one.
Q: Okay.
A: Ani she got her t.eacll:in; degree. But at that tiJne TNe were begi.nnirJ3' to see where our next meal was CCIIli.rg fran. (cries) But we had a car, it was sanet:.hin; that could get us aro.nn. It was a Model A Fol:d-not M:del A, Medel T.
Q: !b:lel T Ford, okay. .Ani do you remember what year it was? A: 1928, yes, I remember that.
Q: So did your nDther ever work?
A: She worked doi.rq housework and also at the Springfield Hospital. She worked for a dollar a day ani they took out twenty cents for ridirg the l:us. That made her eighty cents a day. Ani we never did get on relief. was a few people that actually had that. we was hound and determined was was going to make it.
Q: Well, that's good. What stands out in your met'l'IOlY about the Depression?
A: well, I remember Hoover. He was here for the Abe Lincoln 1 s dedication. It was quite a large ceremony. But then Roosevelt came alorg am everybody was for Roosevelt.
Stan Catherwood Memoir - Archives/Special Collections - Norris L Brookens Library - University of Illinois at Springfield - UIS stan Cathe%wood 9
Q: Now you said Hoover was in town for the Lincoln-was that the Lincoln Tcmb dedication?
A: Yes.
Q: CCW.d you give us an exanple of what you would do during the day? r.st•s say you were in high school arxl it's during the Depression, what wa.tld you do? What would be your dally :r:cutine?
A: Well, I worked for my lunch. Which practically every one of us had to do. But, George E. Stickney, a worxierfu1 fellow had six kids that he personally saw to it that they had lunch. 'Ihere was many others that would have to qo hans arxl they would be late or something like that. '!bat's all right they would make it back. But many a time, before I got the job-preparfn:1lunch-I was forced to work. I was actually-! had five cents a day for llfJ lunch, but the m:lSt thing you oould buy was crackers. (laughs)
Q: CCW.d you describe the cracker? Was it just a regular Saltine?
A: '!hey were imitation. (laughs) 'lhey was a box about four by five inches lon:J arxl about one inch wide. You could get those for one for five cents.
Q: So when you would get up in the nmnin;J 'WOUld you qo to work or go to sdlool first or • • •
A: Well, I went to sdlool arxl I had to walk to school. I would get off at 3: 30 p.m. arxl head for the Ol:pheum. I would qo to work there at four o'clock or 4:30 p.m. ani work until 9:30 at night. Ani I could see any picture in town. (laughter)
But one t.hi.rg I want to bring cut was this. My m:>ther am sister were great lovers of Jeannette MacDonald ani Nelson Eddy. I saw the picture and the floor layout, and I picked cut the best seats in the theater for them. center aisle, row three, the first two seats, and that cost me four dollars apiece. (cries) SO that took up one half of my-I had to work for two weeks for this. But my mother ani my sister waJld--they thcu;Jht that was really 'W01'rlerful. (cries) Q: Now you said Janet [Jeannette] MacDJnald ard Eddie Nelson [Nelson Eddy] ware they entertainers?
A: Yes, they were by far the greatest of them. 'lhey were-mezzo sopraoo I th1nk was her title. It was so beautiful. I have two of the records aramd here.
Q: NCM where exactly is the Ol:pheum '!heater located?
A: '!he Ol:pheum '!heater was located at Fifth ard Jefferson. It 1 s since been tom cbm for the Illinois or the Marine Bank. Q: Oka~, I think I know that area. Now was there a lot of big name entert:ainment caning to the Ol:pheum?
Stan Catherwood Memoir - Archives/Special Collections - Norris L Brookens Library - University of Illinois at Springfield - UIS stan catherWood 10
A: tb yes! We had all the big entertainers. Dick Powell, ani there was the 'lhree stooges. '!hey were there in person am they wcW.d make such a l:::x::x:>-boo out of the person, people wcW.d cane up to us ani say, "can you keep those fellows quiet?" You wcW.d have to tell them they were the next act on. (laughter)
Q: so I bet you that was probably excitin:J world.n3' there? A: Yes, and I saw Bl.adksta'le, the maqician.
Q: NOW' what area of town was the main active area of Sprin}field?
A: '!hat was the active area, all the theaters were in there. 'Ihere was the OJ:pheum, the strarn, Tivoli, the Rcxy am the Lincoln. All those pictures-you oauld go to a picture show in the afternoon, an:i you saw eve:cyt:hing that yoo could imagine, you :krlcM. Ani it included the-you got in for thirty-three cents. You had a wonierful seat ani the theater would hold three thousarrl seven hun:U:'ed and fifty people.
Q: NOW' that was the OJ:pheum? A: Yes. 'lhat was the biggest theater in town. we had to go to school for three weeks or two weeks in ort1er to be an usher. You had to g'ive han:l signals: you had to ask what tiJne it was; heM many seats are at YCRJr aisle: how many were in the fra'rt, the back, the center: and you could ask art;{ question.
Q: Ani that's with hand signals?
A: Yes. But the • • • Q: Nal did you have to wear a special wrlform?
A: Ch yes. Oh it was quite a deal. (laughs. But GoVernor Horner-he used to cane there. He wculd take anyone-"You want to go to the Ol:pheum?" He'd brin;;J up maybe forty or fifty kids, ani all of them-he would pay for eveeyone of them. Ani they would all behave themselves.
Q: well, I wcW.d like to :krlaw a little mre about YCRJr parents. Do you krlolrt haw lllllCb school.i.n;J yoJr parents had?
A: My m:1ther had an eighth grade educatiat, but it was odd hOW' sanethaes, she 'Wa1ld. be at nrt sister's reunion or saaet:hin;J like that an:1 St'IIWta'l8 liiCUl.d ask her, "What c:xUlege did you att.ern?" She had a wonderful acoant or vocatulm:y.
Q: So she was a very intelligent wanan?
A: Yes. My father was well educated in math, I renanber that. I was only six, or eight years old when he died, an:1 of ccurse many t:hin:Js you can release.
Q: NCM when you were growirg up did YCRJr family m:we arourn to different places?
Stan Catherwood Memoir - Archives/Special Collections - Norris L Brookens Library - University of Illinois at Springfield - UIS - ···, :''. ''· ~ ""
stan catherwcod 11
A: we m:wed. to 117 North Dmi.el. It's over here, a couple of streets over here. But we bought that place-three hun:tred or three thousatrl dollars. It was all the place you had to buy-was three thousan:i dollars l:x:Jught everythin:J. It was hardwood floors 1 ani it was 1 well 1 it was so many tiJnes that so many people lost their halses because of the Depression.
Q: Ani what year did you JtVJVe there? A: we lived thel::e a1:x:ut eight years--rD, about seven years. until Peter vrerdenbe:J:q said we had lost or had used up all of our equity in it. so we had to DJVe on. Ani we moved fran there-we were gettin:} a little better off. My nan was l«>rk:in;J at the 8arlgim:) Electric at that time. Ani we m:wed. into 147 south wesley. We lived there alJout •••
Enci of Side one, Tape one
Q: Okay, we were ta1Jd.n;J about YCRJr family n:wirg fran North Dmiels to 147 south Wesley-you want to pick up on that?
A: Well, l'lOthirr;J much happened at that place, except maybe-no, I don't believe anyt:hin:J just ha:R;)enSd. But we 1liOVed across the street, just to 152 SC:uth Wesley. Ani at that time the war came along. I was out of high school and so was my brother. we were workirg at-he worked for Weaver's Manufacturirg o::arpany, I worked for AC-Allis Chalmers. I worked there for forty-five or thirty-five years. I was there 8bout a year ard a half.
You' 11 go to the mai.ll:x:ax at that time ~ that sane day you' 11 pull out the greetirgs fran the PJ::esident. I pulled that out ani I was in-I was joi.nizg the Navy within two weeks. Ani It¥ brother also joined. Ani then I was in a cx:anbat area, it was SUR;lOSedly secret, but I can tell it :new. I was in the Beacil Battalion-ha#r to kill a man with your bare harxls.
Q: Ani this was in the Navy?
A: Yes. We were supposed to be goirg to North Africa, but they took about half of the bunch ani they left the other bunch as a reserve. But, they had bad luck with them ani so they never called us. And so, after that time I was on the tJSS Wimsor. I got pneunaU.a (laughs) am nearly kicked the bucket. (la\ijhS) Ani then after I got out I came haae and I went back to Norfolk, Virginia. But, I was there just a short time. '!hey was-about two weeks at the nost, ani then I got a call for the USS Tlde. As the truck was dJ:t:IR?irg off sailors I was the last ate of t.E.i'limch, an:i I looked. at it-an:i nobody told me what the~ was. I gat off ani they were :rolli.n;J out the boiler out there, ani they'd blCMn the boiler. It was a diesel p::JWered ship, but the boiler was for steam heat all over. But at that time we, well we were on that at five o'clock one evening, ani midnight we were \ll'dn'way for Cllarleston, south carolina. And, nobody told us a t.hi.rJ;J. I was awointed gun pointer on a 20 nun • • •
Stan Catherwood Memoir - Archives/Special Collections - Norris L Brookens Library - University of Illinois at Springfield - UIS Stan Catherwood newly enlisted in the U.S. Navy in 1943 at the age of 22.
Stan Catherwood Memoir - Archives/Special Collections - Norris L Brookens Library - University of Illinois at Springfield - UIS stan catherwood 12
A: Machine gun?
Q: Yes. we were maybe three nights out of Charleston, and we got a wake a1 that. Am so I was on the top part of the bridge. I was follCMin;J the wake and that, and I thought, ''Well the first one that gets a crack at them, I'm qoirg to do it." so I lead a little ahead and the gunnery officer was nearest, so he said-he called out, "All guns on taJ:qetl" Ani so I got-boy, I was ready just to pull the trigger. (laughs) All of a sudden the light came on, they was a PI' boat that had out run us. 'lhey thought '1'.118 were a German sub, and we thought they were sanat:hin; else. But in their darkness they couldn't fird the light. (laughs) Ani so • • •
Q: What was the year that you went into the Navy?
A: 1942, 1942. It was eleven Dalths after D-Day or after • • • Q: Pearl Harbor?
A: Yes.
Q: Okay, and do you rementler your first few weeks in the Navy? A: (laughs) I tell you one that was a real gocxi one. we had--our clot:h.irg was very sld.npily donated to us. we had a pair of shoes, and the very essentials, and we was goi.n:J to qet the others when they could get aroun:i to us. BUt sane fellows and I decided, well we'd rat:hep:' -work on the fence than to build that. well, we -worked on the fence, and we took a whole llD11th to build it. It was time for our boot camp to eni. But durirg the-he was goirg across a field and he saw a snake and it was about that lon:J ••• Q: Abc:ut three foot lorg?
A: Yes, and so he said, ''We'll have a little :f\m. out of that." So he put it in his pocket-he saw it was non poisonous. Ani so, we got ready for bed-ani they was a hl.lmred of us in that ward, rather fifty above fifty below. Ani so they put it into a fellow's bed that had never been outside of the city of Qrlcago. BUt as they were battle lanps on and you could see what was going on, and we was watchin]. Pretty soon the guy set down and he got to feelirg arourd, he came up with that snake and he said, "A snake! A snake! It's goirq to bite me!" Well, someone gral:b3d the snake ani heaved the win:lc:M open, and it went out on the gram.i. About that ti:me he was running up and down the aisles and he was screaming, l:ut the chief came in and the poor devil (laughs) he didn't say he was crazy, but he sent hiln dcMn to the dispensary for three days. (laughter) Neither one of us-no one wanted to admit it. It was quite a joke. Q: So one of your buddies put it in?
A: Yes, I don't knc:M who did it. (laughs)
Q: Okay, rt:M do you remember M1ere l:xxrt: canp was?
Stan Catherwood Memoir - Archives/Special Collections - Norris L Brookens Library - University of Illinois at Springfield - UIS stan catherwood 13
A: At M::D:nald Field, Great lakes, Illinois.
Q: Ani hew lorg were you at H::Donald Filed? A: one m:mth. Q: one m:mth? Arrl then where were you sent?
A: Maybe I ought to tell_ fCU sc:methin;J about that. We -were never issued. aey rifles or a:nyth1n:J else. But a chief fran Oklahoma was our chief, ani he showed us the Manual of Al::ms with a broan. Q: Do you know Wn.y they didn't give you rifles?
A: '!hey didn't have aey.
Q: Didn't have arrfl
A: '!hen I went to Norfolk, Virginia. Illril'g that time-it's odd heM ~ can work axt-J::ut there was a man named, I fm:get his name, but anyhow he was barely big enough to get in the Navy. Anyh.ow sane lieutenant came by ani we had rifles then, ani we were told not to allCM anyone beyon:i that p:>int where we were. Ard the lieutenant come out, ani he started out toward the place, ani we drew the rifles. He said, ''Wait a minute, I'm supp::se to qo in there." But we didn •t see anything of recognition to say that he was supposed to do in there. Ani he said, "Oh, cane on, I'm goirg in there." Ani another guard said, "If you do I'm qoin;J to shoot you." And we pointed our rifles at the-(laughs) ani the guy saw that we weren't kidding. So, he got back in the jeep (laughs) ani he drove up the road. Five minutes later he came back ani he says, "Is this far enough?" one guard said, ''Wait a minute." He said to me, "You go over ani see if it's the right papers, I' 11 keep him cx:wered." (laughs) Well, it was signed by an admiral. so we know that it was not kidd.irg. But he said, "You guys are doil'g a real good job." (laughs) Ani so we let him go.
Q: Okay, J:'lOifl you said you were in sanet:hinJ called the Beach Battalion ani when did you qo into that?
A: Shortly after I came to Norfolk. I was-they taUght us • • • heM to operate a lathe, an:i shaper, an:i drill press, ani stuff like that. '!here was all :Jdnls of fellows. Ani so, they were-well we went out on the Virginia Beach-it's the farthest point on the ocean. we had target praC:t.ioe there, ani we had there each day. Ani we had sul:lnachine guns ani Ml. rifles, ani [learned] how to throw a knife with-you OCA1ld throw it at fifty feet ani you OCA1ld stick it in a man's back an:i kill him, ani stuff I try forqet:tirg nCM. But • • • Q: was it like a special forces?
A: Yes, it was. An:l then getting t:Ner to overseas I remember sc:methin;J there. we were I don't know what, but anyhow I got in on a minesweeper-is what it was called. we were :t'Ul'lllirq anns over to the Free French ani (laughs) that was not an unusual to be-we'd leave about midnight ani sail for France. Ani boy they would be everybody
Stan Catherwood Memoir - Archives/Special Collections - Norris L Brookens Library - University of Illinois at Springfield - UIS ;_ .r.~~~""-:::"!·· .. ,... .,_f~ .... ··:; ,.-,.·~··-,...·;; .. ~~···,,
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out there in :ra.moats, am 'blgboats, anything you could manage. And heave them [weapons] aver the side am then 'We'd sail for Ergland. well, there was a t:h.ir¥3' I -maybe if you had the time you could see that-but it was a t11fn1 that told abwt April the 28th, lORJ before o-oay. we "Were assigned to go out ani-five L.S.T. •s, am I don't kr1ow hew many minesweepers. we -were assigned to go out ani put a foothold on No:rmarxiy.
Q: NCM what's an L.S.T.? Is it sane k:in:i of ship?
A: Yes, very large ship. 'We'll look at them later on. But, actually we got a contact on a sul::marine, ani because our camnarrler was a lieutenant camnarrler, and there was a • • • one rank above him was in ~ of the corwoy, ani he ordered us to go and get the sul:marine. well, we chased the sul::marine down ani it was a pretty sight to see that go overboard-depth charges go overboard and explode, am water cane up. It killed many a fish. {laughs) But, before long we could see the outline of Fl:'al'na ahead of us, llOW' that was lon;r before D-Day. And after that w headed for Erglan:l-ba.ck to our hans port in Plynort:h, Ergland. Am a •••
Q: Did you ever get the suJ:anarine?
A: we got it ~ly. we in oreer to-wel.l, we was credited with the probable sinkin;J of it. We got great gabs of sb.lff out-we was sure. we was in forty feet of water, and I don't Jmc::M how we could have missed it. we drq:oped three pattem charges, six J?B:ttems each of them, ani we crossed aver them ani back. Abait daylJ.ght one of us-well, I was up on side, I looked overboard ani we'd been plowin:J through dead guys all night long. '!here was 750 cdd fellC1.11B killed durin;J that invasion. It was never mentioned in the papers. It was never mentioned in arrt British papers, bit it was there. Q: was it a German subnarine?
A: Yes.
Q: German.
A: Yes.
Q: N0r1 you said you did a six pattem does that mean you crisscrossed to the right • • •
A: No, we laid out six pattern charges, two fran the aft tank and two fran the guns that were out the side. Ani we C1rcg)ed them. Evecytime we wa2ld gat a cxmtact, boy they would drq) m:n-e. A depth charge is a1:nrt: three feet long ani about one ani ate-half feet in diameter.
Q: Okay, l'lC7Il do you remember the date for that? A: '!hat was, November ••• I forget.
Q: Do you r:emember the year?
Stan Catherwood Memoir - Archives/Special Collections - Norris L Brookens Library - University of Illinois at Springfield - UIS stan catherwood 15
A: Yes, it was 1944.
Q: 1944. Arxl what ship was that? was that the uss Tide? A: '!he USS Tide.
Q: You said that you were on the USS Win::Jsor. Was that just for a short tima?
A: Yes, but that was for mainly t.ra.inirg troops heM to fight when they got to Nol:'IIIaniy. '!here was a beach up by Washin;Jton, o. c. , it was ideal. It was straight up and they had to-we lowered the laming craft--we had twenty-two of them aboard that. Arxl we larned them and they would go ashore and they would make contact, ani everyt:hj.nJ but shootin:J.
Q: Did you knc7.ol that they were prepar~ for an invasion when you were practicirq?
A: Yes, we were.
Q: You just didn't knc7.ol • • •
A: we didn •t knc7.ol when, al:Jout. But, when I got on the minesweeper, we left Cllarleston at, February the 7th ••• the 7th, yes, Febnuuy the 7th. we didn't land into Milford Haven, Wales until-well we were 42 days at sea.
Q: was that the average time it took to get across?
A: Ch, no. we had 98 yard tugboats and oilers, little bitty thi.n;Js ani three of them broke up and sank, and a yard oiler was supp::sed to be a:roun:i the yani you krXIW. '!bey would not supp::sed to go anywhere, but they needed them aver there for the invasion.
Q: so was this a big CCCM:Jy that was go~ on?
A: we were the biggest ship in our oc:nvcy-220 feet lcn;J.
Q: How many ships were in the corway? A: '!here were eleven ships-L.S.T. 's, like minesweepers, like mine, and 98 yard tugboats ani oilers. It was 101 all together. An::l we sailed across-not a thin:J. But I was sittirg in the engine roam one time and it was raJgh seas-we hit three bad stonns, and the one he was goi.rq up and out that way. we had to walk on a bani rope, and we "WOUld be wal.kirg on sanethirg and not:hinJ below-you know you were out on the water. You walk and then you would be up wal.kirg on the side, and you got to where you wanted to, ani you had to grab your way into where you ware goirq.
Q: so the ship was really tossirq and turnirg? A: Yes, for three days it did that.
Stan Catherwood Memoir - Archives/Special Collections - Norris L Brookens Library - University of Illinois at Springfield - UIS stan catherwoo:i 16
Q: Did you get seasick? A: No, nat a cme of us. (laughs) we figured, well evecytime it's goinJ to do down it's nat goinJ to ocme up, ani we wanted to go up feel~ good. (lal.J3hter)
Q: Now what would you do on let's say the ship? A: I operate the evaporators. Now that may seem like a strange sort of t:hi.rg, but f!NerY drop of water the guys drank was cut of what we made out of sea water. we had a boiler ani it went into that, ani we would get it hot, ani it would evaporate ani go into liquid steam ani be drained out.
Q: so you distUled the water for drink:in;f?
A: Yes.
Q: Am was there anyt:h.in:J else that you would do?
A: No, that's the only th.inq I would do. Oh, write haDe. everyday I wrote haDe. :&1t they got so many envelopes they couldn •t have roan to get anyt.hirJ;J. '!hey had 42 ships or 42 mailbags full of letters. After we got into Milfom Haven, Wales we fourrl out the place where we could mall them. All the tiJne Jtri sister an::i my m::rt:her ani Jtri brother thought we was sunk because they hadn •t heal:ti frcm us for, well it • s two Da'1ths at least.
Q: so everybody w.rote a lot of letters.
A: Yes, oh yes.
Q: '!bat was one of the pastimes.
A: Ani when we got those letters, oh it was so much fun. (laughs) You could find out what took place last llDl'lth at your house. (laughs)
Q: Now what would be yan- :routine on the ship?
A: Well, you always had general quarters at least. 'lhey would call them at the worst times. we had a ~ skipper aboal:d ship • • • he was killed, but • • • one time we were rid.irq anchor in Plymouth Harbor, ani they was showitg m:wies--an:i you know" haw everybody would crowd into the mess hall. I fcn:get now what, but anyhow they were all-you would SQU'Ji double red that meant the enemy was approaching. :<, that time we heani, you know, "double red, double red!" 'lhey were right on you. (lau;;Jhs) well, we [went] up to the guns and-that's the only tiJne that the officers and enlisted went a little mre quietly to the place of :t:usiness-not to hurey.
Q: Now you were talJdn:;J about general quarters, what is that?
A: General quarters is the thirg that all hands, no matter fran the captain down, had to lock the doors, ani had to lock you in there.
Stan Catherwood Memoir - Archives/Special Collections - Norris L Brookens Library - University of Illinois at Springfield - UIS stan catherWood 17
You had to be on the guns, ani so a certain amount in the erqine roam. But I was gun pointer on a 20 ammunition gun on the plan bridge.
Q: so it was like a battle position?
A: Yes.
Q: so you would do that every day?
A: Yes.
Q: Ani then what else would you do durin;J a day?
A: Well, wipe the en;Jines. Cb, we had a chief--casey fran Nashville, Tennessee. he was a wonierful guy. I see him every once in a while. And he would let us goof off-he had one fellow stood up there ani he would wave like that (motions with hard) that meant the chief eiXJineer was ac:ming, so we all got to polishirq. we had the same eiXJines in those as the freight train has in those. we had four of them. It was 19 knots ani that was about 22 miles an hour. But everyone thought we was a destroyer because of the speed, ani the •
Q: so h.oltl big was a minesweeper? A: 220 feet lOD;J, 700 tons, (laughs) ard 35 feet across. Q: so it needed four en;ines? A: Yes.
Q: so you would have general quarters ani then you would sperd sane time polishil'q or cleanirY;J up then what else would you do?
A: Yes. Well, we had four on ard four off. You know' you had a watch four han's ard you were off four han's, ard you would sleep, night and day.
Q: so you just had fc:m" halrs--woul.d you use that for writi.rq letters at that time?
A: Yes.
Q: so sanetimes you got less than four haJrs sleep? A: Cb yes! Cb yes! sure.
Q: so they kspt you bJsy on boani?
A: Cil yes.
Q: HeM many men were actually on the ship?
A: '!here were 119--ani only 19 sw:vivors were wer located.
Q: How long were you on that ship?
Stan Catherwood Memoir - Archives/Special Collections - Norris L Brookens Library - University of Illinois at Springfield - UIS 18
A: I was on it seven ani one-half ll¥Jl'lths.
Q: seven ani a half natths. Wall.d ¥00: like to tell us the story alx:ut the minesweeper-its last miss1on?
A: well, we started over for France ani we cleared. the hal:bor ani all of a sudden we got orders to retum to port. NaN" that remirrls me of a certain chief that was in the engine roan-I can •t recall his name-but he was eati.rq right ahead of me ani he said, "I dreamed that D-Day was goi.rq to be the 6th of June. we were going over to France-the ship was goin;r to be hit ani I was going to be killed."
well, we got word ani it was the 5th of June. '!hey was kidding him about it on the bridge. well, they seemed. to think you guessed it pretty close, but you were off a day. we went out there ani we anchored. An:i D-Day was the 6th of June. (cries) we were going over ani I saw the L.S.T. 219 my sister-my sis christened at Seneca., Illinois-! had been aboard it. well, we went over there and we was the only ship in the corwoy. What the heck? It was only one ship-all of a sudden, boy, the planes just-ships came arourrl us. I heard a beaning noise ani I looked for the skyward ani the airplanes was just thick with them--qliders ani troops. '!hey landed what was called a safe but they weren't safe at all because they were 40 miles inlani. All this I leamed later on when I was in the hospital. 'nlere was a L.s. or a sergeant fran the Air corp, he said, ''I begged him, the pilot to take us in lower. 11 'Ihere was CXlll.lbat jumps one hun:ired feet, or pardon me, three J:run:h'ed feet. You couldn •t hardly get a parachute open-you know safely dawn. EUt they had orders to do that. He said, ''We sent the rest of them out, and I pulled the plug-bani grenade on one. 11 He p.It it right up by the pilot's seat ani of course the pilot was killed naturally because he woul.dn •t take them dawn. art I was in the first ones--cmes back in En;Jlani. An:i--wel.l, I better nat tell that . . .
As the ship was sinking' fran the mine that hit us we got off on canmarx1er Buckley's PI' boat. 'Ihirty-three of us got off on the deck of the PI' an::l there was many that died in there.
Q: can you explain exactly what ha:wened? What was the ship doing?
A: we were sweepin; for mines ani the cruiser ~ ordered away with the gear 0 'Ihey had to get in there ani c::riiiSeliir deeper into the mine fields-over the mines. 'Ihere was 19 of us who got off alive ani the decks were bloody, absolutely bloody with that. 'Ihey thought I had a broken back and they latched me to the radio mast, ani they p.It a foul -weather jackat at'OlU'¥i me ani laid a ••• my feet.
Ard so -we got over to an L.S.T. that was actirr:J as a hospital ship. An:i all of us was full of JlDl:ihine and whiskey. '!hey just filled us full of it. '!hey asked us if any of us could climb the ladder. Well, I felt qocd so I climbed the ladder ani I started gettirg up ani had a loop arourrl me ani the blood spn:ted. I said, "I don't think so." Arly):lc:M, I was hauled up in one of the stretchers ani it was full, the sides ani the down • • • Well, anyhow I had to go to the bathroom. (laughs) so no one arourrl, they was busy with fellows who would need
Stan Catherwood Memoir - Archives/Special Collections - Norris L Brookens Library - University of Illinois at Springfield - UIS A Navy photograph of the newly commissioned USS Tide minesweeper. Note the "125" near the front end of the ship. --
This Navy photograph was taken immediately after the USS Tide struck two mines off the coast of Normandy Beach. The ship on the right of the Tide is her sister ship the USS Thread. The ship on the left of the Tide in the foreground is Commander Stan Catherwood MemoirBuckley's - Archives/Special PT boat Collections moving~to - Norris L Brookensrescue Library Stan - University and of theIllinois otherat Springfield survivors. - UIS •• , ·~-~ "J ,. • ••"""'f ·r .. ' ..... -··\'~'7'!""~'i ~~"f '.~ , . ...., .. ,- r
stan catherWood 19
it. 'lhere was not a w:man aboard ship so I went back (laughs) to the cxuise head ani used the batlu:oan there. I came back ani there was sane fellows in r.rtf place. I got the attention of one of those doctors-! said, ''What do you mean takirr;J Brf place?" "Oh, I thought you was dead, I pit another fellC7.t1 (laughs) with your buddies." So they had to make roan for me again.
But I spent seven ani one-half nart:hs in the hospital. Arrl actually at the time there was 17 buzz banbs that lanied within one-half mile of that hospital that night. Not a si.rgle bit of plaster was left on the walls ani all the wizx:la.1s was broken out. So I did a wise thing, I crawled urxier the bed. (laughs)
But so many fellc:MB -were an the lower deck-I was able to •
Erxi of side Two, Tape one
Q: Mr. catherWood, in our previous interview you -were ta1Jd.rg about your duty on the uss Tide ani the day it was sunk by a mine. You were just about ready to explain how you escaped off the ship. Would you like to pick up on that right nt:M?
A: Well, about the only thin;J I remember I was UOOerdeck at 9:30 in the nmnin;J. A terrific boan cane thra:gh the ship ani I saw :many, many men die. Ard I saw water oc::anirq up and I was trapped myself in between the floor board and the ship. I was leanin;r over the-trying to get loose ani the water came up and it was al.llDst to my neck when I manaqed to get tree. At that tiJne I was at the fozward err;rine roan of the ship. I had to make way to the after ergine roan ani up the ladder. But at that time I looked and the evaporators was laid over on top of the main ergine. 'lhe main ergine was I guess "kapluee," but it was wide open and the governor had sbJck or sanethinq. Ard we was just loosing gl.'Ol1l'Ki and si.nk.irq fast. But later on I saw that my executive officer said the ship went down in six minutes time. It was in 43 feet of water at that time. We was close into the Normaniy Beach head. rater on I dove urxier the evap:>ra.tors am swam over to the top of the control panel. I looked up and I saw what used to be a side of the ship ani nothing was there l:ut a hole. It blew it [the ship] completely out of the water. we took two mines, they had two ton of 'mi' in each one ani in that close of water it made us quite-well, I don't knc:M what ycu c:x:W.d say. It was terrible at the time. But I clilnbed up the ladder ard it was nonnally straight up an:1 down ani easy to clilllb, l:ut the ladder was twisted all out of shape. Ard I got off to the top and I felt faint and I said, "I'm goin:J to pass cut l:ut I can't." But just as I was passi.rq out a hand reached out ani g:r:al:iJed me. It was Olarles M. cayce, the man that relieved me in the erqina roan.
At that time w 'WBt'8 set cutside the aft ergine roan. we wme-just anyt1rln;J to get us away fl::an the fire. 'lhere was a fire quite prevalent at the time. We was right u:rxler the ship's 40 nm cannon an1 there 'WBt'8 a bunch of us there. But the thing that was amazin;J to me was the shells, 40 nun, 20 nun, ard 40 nm, the size of a . • • I guess
Stan Catherwood Memoir - Archives/Special Collections - Norris L Brookens Library - University of Illinois at Springfield - UIS stan catheJ::wood 20
about Ql8 em one-half inches in diameter. '!he projectile of them was quite-t:hsy oould fire real fast and so they were-everytime the ship 'WOUld roll there waUd. be a b.mch of them roll tawal:d us. '!hey were scarred up sanet:hin;J terrible. You see a shell 'WOUld nonnal.ly explode at e:t"q pressure at all and those shells were fran the after deck above us ani they junped dawn to the after deck ani none of them exploded.
But they was-I was barely OC'.I'lSCiam I remember that now. I saw a PI' boat plll up alorq side of us. But before they got alorg side of us sanea1e asked me if I oould do anythin:r about that SllDke pot. we had smoke pots on the ship for layirg Sll¥Jke screens. But I Wilt over to this massive • • • and grabbed it and I heaved it overboard. I didn •t notice my barDs or anythi.rg about it, 1::ut I set down and my harXIs were bare. It 1 s furmy how you can be in shock and not realize how badly you were hurt. I didn't know how badly I was hurt at all. Arrj'tJall there was at that time Cl:lt'IJ:Dan:le Ellckl.ey pllled alorg side of us in his PI' boat, arXi it didn't cany 1'lllCh water. '!here was nme of it stick:in;J out of the water than was urrie.r it because it wculd be real fast. '!hey were-dl, I foxqet now what kim of boats-Packard boats, yes, Packard boats is the name of them. Ani I don't know what the speed of it was naturally. But anyh<7ll we was taken off on one of those. we was tald.ng on so JlllCh water at that time that we wculd step off of the minesweeper and onto the PI' boat just like that.
He had 33 of us on board and we sailed for a ship acting as hospital ship out in the Channel. An:l at that time we were full of m:>J:];iline and whiskey, the only thin'J they had to ease the J?i!in. one fellow named 1hunnan Fdison Pope o o o he died at that t:uneo (cries) He was only thirteen years old when he joined the Navy o I don •t know how he managed to do it, :rut he thalght he was-he would be the youngest fell011 in the Navy o He was a seaman 5ecord • • • After we crossed aver to the hospital ship-I think I told you about this before but we was haUled up in the stretchers aboaJ::d that ship and we sailed off for En1land.
'!here was six of us in one group that was boun:i for the stretchers or ambll.aD::a. we were taken aboard that and taken to an Amy hospital. Ani they treated us-wl.l, quite differently than we had been treated before. 'Ihey had anny rations, it was for breakfast mird you. they had potatoes that weren't even wanned all the way t:lu::'algh, there was soup that was o:>ld. But we couldn't eat it. so lieutenant came by and we told him about this. ''we can •t afford to eat that food. We don't care if you feed it to the Amy or not, :rut it's not for us." He looked at one plata of food 8lX1 he looked at ••• ani he said, "No, you will not eat that ki.ni of food." He later left ani we were sent bac:Jt 'Ar'lrj' food :rut it was fran the officer's group of food. It was gccx1 to eat. Before we lett there w had an eveniJJ;J there. Arrl we all said, ''Who's alive ard who isn't?" we fourd that there wasn't many left. But the next day they took us to a Navy hospital. '1'hin;Js were lll1Ch nicer there. I remember goirg into there, am I was scared. I don't know what, 1::ut it was a new hospital, arxi they said, ''You're all right TJCM, you're in a Navy hospital." But that stlll didn't relieve me. well, anyhow I had a shot to calm me down. I was p.rt in ward Sl, the thil:d
Stan Catherwood Memoir - Archives/Special Collections - Norris L Brookens Library - University of Illinois at Springfield - UIS ···-·· .. :: ·.. :- 1'!-
The USS Tide after striking two mines on June 7, 1944 off Normandy Beach. Navy photograph.
Stan Catherwood Memoir - Archives/Special Collections - Norris L Brookens Library - University of Illinois at Springfield - UIS , ,·,·:'.<-
stan catherwood 21
deck at the east end of this hospital. A1U later on after nw wife ani I were married I was at that hospital in Ergland. My son and nw wife both saw the waJ::d I was in, and it was only shortly after that they tore the hospital down. It had been built prior to world war I and II. It had served its purpose, J:ut it was quite a thi.rq. well, after I got up and around I went around ani foun:i nw cousin A1 xarder fran here in town-lived there. He was stationed there in the ArrlrJ. I said, ''Well, batt can I qet a hold of him?" so I thought well, "I 111 try anything. 11 SO I p.zt a 8el:geant Albert E. xarrler, U.s. Quarters, Master corp, I..ooal u.s. ArrlrJ. A1U three days later after I had sent that he arrived cut at the hospital. (laughs)
Q: You sent him a letter?
A: Yes. He ani I spent many liberties together until it was time for me to cane back. well, at the time we left En;Jland it was about 5:30 at night. It was at sart.himpton, ED:Jland, where we departed. Ani fran there we went by the fastest train in England at that time was the Royal SCot. After we came through the Black Forest of Err:Jlani, ani there we was the last • . . well, it was the last blzz banbs we ever saw. I OOI..U1ted seventeen of them lamed in the space where we were travelin;J. '!hey were not tryirq to qet us, they were just hootin;J at anyone just to cause havoc anr:n;;r the E:rx]llsh peq:>le. Ani we left E:rx]lani at Liverpool, E:rx]lan:l. we went d.c7tm there it was a sun:Jay nmnin;J, I remember that, ani we left E:rx]lan:i. At one point we could see En;Jlan:i an:i Irelan:i at the same time.
Shortly thel:ea.fter-it was sanethi.nq that a fellow would read about in the papers-a ship-a seaboat surfaced. It was three miles out of southampton or Liverpool. It surfaced an:i we saw the Nazi flag go up and we figured, ''Well, we're done for this time. (cries) We made it close to hane." Arlyh.aw he ordered sane flagmen or signal men up on the tcp of our hospital ship, the USS Refuge. We entered ••• all we could do was watch it and it was abrut---aEi!f mile off our port beam. But after he left in the paper pJblish.ed aboard the ship-it was a newsprint like a newspaper-it said Cc::ll1m2U'der so an:i so-whatever sub that was I dal't kncw-askad batt many wera aboard ship. He asked how many doctors, crewmen ani :mn:ses were aboard ship an:i then he wished us a ham' voyage haDe. (cries) He sailed under water, an:i we came on haDe.
I was in Portsmcuth Naval Hospital and we stayed there only one night, and then a hospital tmin took us up to washington, o. c. From there I got to ride an airplane haDe. I begged an ail:plane pilot that I was sure my brother was goin:J to ship out before lCDJ and he was heme on leave, and I was bourd ani detennined that I was going to see him. So I went there and begged him. He said, "All I can give you is a C-priority." I said, "Good enough." He asked me if I had a leave yet and I said, "No. I have a 45 day leave, J:ut I'm willinj to settle for fifteen." But after he had signed it all, the lieutenant had signed it. I said, ''Well, Why not make a four cut of the one ard make it 45? I Wt'JUl.d en:i up with a 45 day leave. No a1e thought a thing of it. I was hane on leave three days before my brother sailed. He sailed for the Pacific.
Stan Catherwood Memoir - Archives/Special Collections - Norris L Brookens Library - University of Illinois at Springfield - UIS stan catrunwood 22
Q: So you talked an aiJ:plane pilot-was it a service, a military seNice pilot?
A: No, panion me, it was not an aiJ:plane pilot, it was a chaplain.
Q: A chaplain?
A: Yes, am he arran;Jed it.
Q: Was it your lieutenant who gave you the 45 day leave?
A: Yes, arxi he was fran. all.cago, arxl he asked me, ''Hc:Jw's everythin;J back in Illinois, let me know what you found out?" Well, in other words I spent the forty-five days at hane, they seemed quite short. But I managed to-airplane pass-I managed to get to Chlcago arxi out to O'Hare Field. I caught a plane for New York city, Floyd Bennet Field. Ard at Floyd Bennet Field I had to wait untll there was something going on to~' D.C. But at that time I remamber the • • • So I am goin:J to New York am I got a plane out of there to washin;Jtal, D.C. At that til'lle I was ••• I was just • • • up ani ara.lld arxi I was good. SO I -went from there to Rllladelphia, Pennsylvania by regular train. (laughs) I felt unusual traveling on a regular train. But, at Ihlladel]iilia I stayed there quite a while. At that time I was told to go to swa.rt:hm:>re, Pennsylvania.
But • • • at the hospital I was associated with a few mre of ICrf buddies off of the ship. One named NOl:lllal'l Te1. Strayer who since died. He was never actually right. But anyhcM he said, "You want to meet that fellow across the street fran us?" He was worki.n:]-he was a first class entertainer I guess you would say, ani his name was Gene Kelly.
Q: So you met Gene Kelly?
A: Yes.
Q: New Where was this at again?
A: swarthlrore, Pennsylvania. But the odd part of it was he was older than I was but he had a bald spot in the back of his head about four by five (lau;Jhter) ani had false teeth. Q: Really?
A: But it goes to show you other 1:hin;Js can make up for that. Q: Now 'Mlat wee you doing in swartmrore exactly? A: I was always one to get sanethin;J goirg for me to make ••• I 1~ a place to make moccasins. It cost me two bits to make nox:asins. But I fc:mx:i out that I could sell them for two dollars a pair. so I got acquainted with a WAC at • • • well she was stationed in Wasl'lirqton, ard she 'WOUld sell all the boots I could manufacture.
Stan Catherwood Memoir - Archives/Special Collections - Norris L Brookens Library - University of Illinois at Springfield - UIS stan catherwood 23
It got to a point where I was getti.nJ more orders than what I could do ani I had three other fellc:MS 1l12lki.n;J them for me. But we had our good times that way. a.rt: actually the reascm I had to fW out was trr:f milita:ry pay rec:cn:as were sent over to Queen Anne's Battery, Plym:nth, Englan:i. I was six m:mths in gettiJ'¥3 them, so I had to live on sanething. (laughs)
Q: Now at this time were you still in the Navy?
A: Yes.
Q: You were? 'Ihis was just sanethin;;J you did an the side or did you have regular duties or scmethinq like that? A: No.
Q: No?
A: we had a wonierful. captain, I forget nc::M what his name was, but it was for old people. It was one fellow maybe you would ha};:Pel'l to remember his name • • •
o: [Mrs. catherwood] He was an Indian.
A: He was an Irrlian fellow that many of us remember. Ira Hayes was his name. He raised the flag an Iwo Jima. He was drunk fiNerY night. But that was one of the things I remember about him that he was drunk ever night.
Q: Now did he work with yo.1 or was he • • •
A: He was just stationed with me just as a roan-anp.rt:ee or whatever you call it.
Q: Now when was this exactly, do you ~.r the date?
A: Yes, it was about • • • I believe september or october-September I believe, 1942, no 1943. Yes, 1943.
Q: So were you on a base or were you just in the city?
A: We were on swarthmore COllege-had been a wonierfu1 college, it's a girls college. '!he Navy took it over as a place to go bane to fatten up to qet discharged out of.
Q: Ch, so it's like a rehabilitation center?
A: Yes.
Q: so were you still recoveri.rg fran your injuries?
A: Well, I am, yes. But at that time I was--wll, they tell about us workin;t--nat:hi.n to do l:ut eat ani sleep. '!here were sane of us that-It was before Olrisbnastime, l:ut we founi out that Railroad Express Ccrnpany was givin;J us a jcb if we-all we had to do was just
Stan Catherwood Memoir - Archives/Special Collections - Norris L Brookens Library - University of Illinois at Springfield - UIS stan Ca:th&l'\«Xld 24
punch in. we was gettin;r quite a lazqe W8CJE! at that tilne. All we would have to do was sort boxes that 1 s ~ in, nothing heavy at all. You -worked in your unifonn and if you qot tired you just said, "I •m going to quit for the night." Ani it was such a scarcity of men that they acx:epted you on those con:iitions.
Q: About haw lorg was this after the s.ink:iiq of the ship?
A: Cl1 well, it was right before I was di.schal:qed. I was in the hospital seven and one-half natths, oh I would say about six natths afte1:wards. I was up ani aro.ttxi in pr:etty good shape.
Q: How lcn:J exactly were you in the hospital in Englani, do you remember?
A: Ch, about a m::rl1:h and a half I guess. Yes.
Q: Ani then you came back to the United. states? A: Yes.
Q: And then was it right after you came back to the u.s. that you took your leave of absence?
A: Yes sir. Q: Ard then you went to a • • •
A: ihiladel];tti.a and then SWarthm:>re.
Q: Okay, and do ycu remember the day you were discharged?
A: I was dischal:ged in Januazy 27, 1945. At that tllne I started workirg-I was bound and detexmined I was goin;J to start world.rg right away. I went out to Allis-ctJallners where I was formerly euployed. I was received with cpm anns. But there was not too many of us had been relieved. I went on the machine an:l I started up. You could tell fran the way I was grinclirr:J tools that I never-I caught on to it in 11llCh less time than a no:rmal person wculd.
Q: Now where were you When you were discharged? A: I was in ihil.adelphia, Pennsylvania. Q: Okay. Ani then you came back to Sprin;Jfield, Illinois. A: Yes.
Q: And that was in 1945?
A: Yes. At that tilne, you know' always mald.nJ my nv:mey. I was awarded $78 for transportation bane. well, -we had to pay one cent a mile for transportation and I think the distance was about a little less t.han, ah, it must of been maybe $25 at nest for the distance bane. so I pocketed the rest.
Stan Catherwood Memoir - Archives/Special Collections - Norris L Brookens Library - University of Illinois at Springfield - UIS .£.; *"' O¥i:;z;c -. j '"!:£4' ·'*"t'""'''?!"'llf'f,·i(4 I '""""""'~~~·~ ... ..--
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Q: Now heM lc:n.;J -were you in the service? A: I was only in twenty-seven ani one-half months ani m:::lSt of that (laughs) was hospital tbne, sane of it was.
Q: Now When you were injured--oould you explain your injury a little more for us?
A: Okay. '1hey thought that I had a broken back so they checked me over qood. '!hey saw that no ribs ware cracked, :t:ut a bunch of the bones were shattered. well, I could pick bones out of that until a year ago. I wtllld feel it workin;J out ani I would-maybe a half an inch lO!YJ or maybe a little shorter. Since that time they are not worki.ng out. well as I was injured the STOOke pots blew up ani down the after stack, ani we swallowed a lot of smoke. And for I'd say a month after that you wculd ccu;#1 up the residue of what was left. And they checked II¥ heart ani it didn •t shaw any damage but II¥ left lurg shcMecl considerable damage ani so they kept me in there so lorg, to fini out that I was all right.
And as I got bane I thought I wculd suxprise the persons that was to receive me at bane. so I went up to :Ali.ladelphia to Qrlcago arrl then I was transferred to a train leaving there to Springfield, Illinois. Actually It¥ folks -were at Chester, Illinois visltirq ard there was no one at bane but me. (laughs)
Q: How did you feel about that? A: well, I think I went to a shew. (laughter)
Q: But did you have a qood :rmmion later?
A: well, later an-I think I'll tell it like this. "SC!Deone ought to start the reunion. Who's goin;J to do it?" I thought maybe a yeanan would because it was naturally their business. But no one ever did.
End of Side one, Tape 1]).10
Q: Okay, you were just begi.nni.n;J to talk about the reunions that you would have with the suzvivors of the uss Tide, do you want to continue that?
A: Okay, I think I will. It had been twenty years since we had a reuniCI'l, and I krlc:Jw that many of them had passed on. Ani so I thought, "Well, hc'M in the world can I get ahold of all these people that were fm:merly on the Tide?" '!hey were fran Califomia to New York, you know all of the 'Iii""'between. so I went down to the p.lblic library ani was able to get the !XlOI'le directories of most ta,ms, like st. I.Qlis, Il:lS An;Jeles ani Orlcago arrl all that ani I looked up these names. At that time, thank goodness the postage was only three cents but l'lCittl it's gone up considerable. But I wa.tld write a letter as I was workin;J-I would write it at night ani then seni it off. Two or three days later I wc:uld receive an answer, "No one here, deceased or
Stan Catherwood Memoir - Archives/Special Collections - Norris L Brookens Library - University of Illinois at Springfield - UIS stan catherWood 26
m:JY'Ed wit:hcut forwardirr;J address. 11 But every once in a while I could reoeive one (cries) which they said, ''Why sure we'll be glad to come. 11 Well, I did that for five years altogether. I was able to receive ni.netean aah'esses of fellows who 'WCUld c:c:me, so I sent them a letter. I said, ''Yc:u were an the finest ship (cries) in the u.s. Navy. You were an the first ship in Frerdl waters in this invasion. Please receive this as one of the fellows that we 111 all stand by. 11
Before lon;r I said June the 7th would make the final day. so we scheduled at the st. Nicholas Hotel. At that time it was in top-notch corrlition, and the roans were $19.95 apiece, that's quite foreign from where they are now.
But we had this fellow, Bill EmeJ:y. He was a missionary down in Brazil ••• o: Mexico.
A: Okay, I was mistaken, Mexico. Since that time he's been here several times. He's given us this ••. ah, I guess it's an artifact fran Mexioo, and it's rather crudely made. But he was the first speaker at this reunim. Ani it was held in the capitol Christian Church. He was our main speaker that day. Little do people realize there was not an American flag, but a forty-eight star flag that we flE!W' on board the Tide. Ar'lyhatl, he gave a real nice sent¥:m. He later on went back to MeXrci5 and -we correspc::njed quite frequently.
so I said, "Well :now that's aver, 'let's tJ:y to have one each two years. 11 So the next guy was casey, the man that pulled me out, and he had a nice reunion for this. Before lorg there were fewer and fewer left. Ani we had them in-the one I recall the m::st was the man at savanneh, Georgia. 'lhe ship's owner or the builder of it was there. '!hey gave us a wonderful time. But since that time the ship owner has closed his business. we•ve had them at ado, once in Wisconsin, Indiana. Ani since that time we've met a fellow who's been at all of our reunions-but he has had fifty-seven qJeratians on hiln. He 1 s able to drive a car, he was expec:tin;J to go back right after his reunion. But we had one in Michigan.
Q: What was the gentleman •s name that had all the operations? (tape stowed)
A: 'lhe fellow's name was Bill Branstrator. He was a First-class MOtor Mac on the ship. Ani speaJc:iiq of that, we'll go back to England one DJre time to tell you alx:ut a fellow who was bom and raised here in the united states but his parents came frcm Torquay, Englan:i. We had t1'al dam there on a sun::tay mmirq and we 1 d load hiJn down with evaryt:hin;J: bitter, eggs, the whole t.hirg to cany. we often won:iel:ad what became of them later on. we've been 1:.hrcugh that town, but we never evan stc:g:ed.
Q: tile were these people again? A: Bill Branstra • • •
Stan Catherwood Memoir - Archives/Special Collections - Norris L Brookens Library - University of Illinois at Springfield - UIS This photograph was taken in 1984 during a reunion in Savannah, Georgia of the men who survived the sinking of the USS Tide in World War II. From left to right: Charles Cayce, Elmer Schmidt, Ken "Sleepy" McQuiston, James Paris, Bill Branstrator, Howard Oathout, Bill Craggs, DeWitt Whitten, Rev. Bill Emery, Barney Haybeck, and Stan Catherwood. The U.S. flag in the background was flying over the USS Tide when it went down and is now part of Mr. Catherwood's personal collection.
Stan Catherwood Memoir - Archives/Special Collections - Norris L Brookens Library - University of Illinois at Springfield - UIS ~- --..
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Q: '!bey lived in Turkey, Erqland? A: Yes, Torquay, 'lbrquay, ErJ;Jland.
Q: 'lbrquay. And was it a person who was on board ship?
A: Yes. '!he ~t man aboard ship. I think I have a letter here.
Q: Now do you remember about what year that was?
A: 'Ihat was right before o-ray in 1943, yes 1943.
Here am::n;r all of ~ possessions I fin:l a letter from the President of the united states. He was wishi.rg us a-he gave us the Presidential Citation for o.Itstan:iin;J work duril'r:J the war. Q: Ani when did you qet that?
A: we got that lorg afterward. we got it in May of ••• Q: 1983?
A: Yes. nrls is a fellow here, I can't remember his name, but he and I were about the same age. And this fellow was running' a hardware store in Memphis, Termessee. (Stan is describin'J iniividuals in a photograph from a 1974 reunion for the suzvivors of the USS Tide.)
Q: Ani what was his name? A: I don •t knc::M, I don't knc7.rl his name but we' 11 go by-this one is a fellow that ran a golf course. He's, 'Well, a millionaire I guess. And this guy arxl I are just like two buddies. we write every once in a while, I write but I can't write. And this guy is a rancher from oregon. Ard this 9UY is fran Irrliana. '!his 9UY is rr:JW dead, he lived in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. '!his 9UY, Ifri Chief Petty Officer was Olarles Major cayce. And this 9UY is dead ni:M. '!his guy is the one that had all the operations, he has an artificial foot. Ard the last one of the bunch [stan] •
Q: NOW' that's a picture of the men that came to one of the reunions?
A: Yes.
Q: Ani do you remember what year this was, a guess?
A: I'd say-well, rDT this is one I knc7.rl for a fact that took place . • • was thirty years ago. Rev. Bill EmeJ:y • • •
Q: Now was that the first one?
A: Yes.
Q: And that's a photograph of the first reunion?
A: Yes.
Stan Catherwood Memoir - Archives/Special Collections - Norris L Brookens Library - University of Illinois at Springfield - UIS ·~· .•• ;-'·"1'1~'1''"~ ·-.
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Q: And do you remember the year for that, would that be 1973 or 1974?
A: Yes, I'd say about that time.
0: 1974.
A: 1974.
Q: 1974, okay. And you say you have a reunion every couple of years?
A: Yes, -we've had them •••
o: Every two years 0 A: Yes, every two years we had a reunion. And next year we' 11 have
it in 0 0 • 0: Fort Wayne, Irdiana.
A: Fort Wayne, Irdiana. our CCI'IIlDallier of the PI' boat that took us off is supposed to be there. He's a Rear Admiral nt:M.
Q: 'Iha.t will be Rear Admiral Buckley?
A: Buckley.
Q: Okay. How many reunions have you had? Do you know?
A: I'd say about six.
Q: And do very many of the men cane?
A: '!hey' re gettin;J fewer every time. '!his ooe he won •t make it. (points to phot:ograi:il) We have a man that I knc:w why he won't atten:i, but it's scmeth.irg that happened aboaJ::d ship. He was a C.M., Chief Electrician's Mate. But it's l'lCit:1:lin} at all to do with the war or anyt.hj.rg like that.
Q: Now' what do you do at these reunions, you just sit aroun:i and talk? A: Oh, we have a qood tilDe. we had one in here in Springfield, it was poor because it was the first one ani each one has outdid the other one. Now we have a sw:inunirg pool and all the things that you can think of, anyt.hj.rg.
When we had one here in town I showed them Lincoln's Tal1b, his home ani New Salem. But New Salem-it was :rainiJ'q scmeth.irg fierce and we didn't get to see nuch. of that. In fact they said, ''Well, it must be a pretty place." (laughs) But that's • • •
Q: I would like to go back and talk a little bit about the war years, world War II. Now were you dischal:ged before the end of the war?
Stan Catherwood Memoir - Archives/Special Collections - Norris L Brookens Library - University of Illinois at Springfield - UIS ·· "•.~ ··• -1""""~·-.~~-,• '."' ~ T ., •.... ,, "!'l + " V:f~·~•~' stan cat:herwcod 29 A: Yes, I was. I was dischal:ged about ale year before the eni of the war. I went back to Al.lis- Q: So those were primarily smaller ships? A: Yes. It was at the en:i of the yam and we had to work on the small ships. Q: New were there very many wanen work.iD;J in the shipyard then? A: Yes, there were quite a few. But meet of the time they had lighter duty jobs ani • • • we worked at our regular job ard if we wanted to we could cane back and work at night ard many times I would work till midnight. I'd lace bottans in troop transports ard thin:}s like that. Q: Now what is layin;J bottans? Is that what you said? A: ~. 'Ihey would lace them into their ..• Q: Okay. Arrl you said you worked double shifts sometimes? A: Ch yes, mcet of us did. Arrl then after a while ItrJ nother ani sister were out in california at '1'eminal Islard, california. So I told the boss, "I'm quittirq. I'm qoin;J to go to '1'eminal Islard, california." so I went ard right away I was hired. I was put in charge of a l::luD::h of fellows that-(laughs) your dad wculd probably un:1erst:ar¥:l this-the only time they had shoes on was when they left the coast to oc.ae to california. I had six of them workin;J for me we were su;wosed to-t:hsy had us in a d%y dock ard it was our job to take all the bolts ard fittin:Js loose ard lift the erYJines out ani put new ergines in. I didn •t Jmaw at that time, neither ale of us did, but at that time they [lan:iirq crafts] were sent to canmunist China. Q: Now this was a shipyani in california that you were work:irx] at now. Did your mther ani sister work there too? A: Yes, they worked, my DDther worked. I would see her fiNerY once in a while, but my sister worked in the office ard ••• '!hat remin.is me of another ail:plane sto:ey. I hope you don •t qet disca.1rage1 with me. But I •m goin;J to tell you sauethin;J which very few peqlle got to see. I got to see the Spruce Goose. Q: Now was that Hc1tmJ::d Hughes • plane? Stan Catherwood Memoir - Archives/Special Collections - Norris L Brookens Library - University of Illinois at Springfield - UIS stan catheJ:wood 30 A: Yes, it was. Ani it was on the water ani I saw it neve ani I thought, "Well, sanethinq' s happeni.n;J, let's everybody watch it. 11 So I called the fellc::MS up ani we-I don't knoW, I believe I was at the tool roan getting sane tools or sanethinq, so I called the fellc::MS up real quick. I said, ''We're go~ to watch the Spruce Goose take off or sanethinq." so we got up there just in ~to see it clear the water. It flew about a mile ani settled dc:Mn, made a perfect lanif.n:J ani that was the last flight the Spruce Goose ever made. It was the biggest t:llln;. Q: How big was it? Ik) you remember? A: Actually, well I'll tell you one th.in; about the win;Js of it. It was wide enough that a man could starxi up ani work on all of the ergines. It had eight erqines. I don't knoW what horsepower they were, but it never lifted-she lifted off right away ani seemed to act nonnal ani he set it down. Q: NCM where exactly was this at in california? A: san Diego Ha%bor. Q: Ani do you remember the name of the shipyam where you worked at? (tape stopped) A: 'I'el:minal. Islani, cal.ifomia. It was Tenninal. Islam, california. we saw many ships ccme in there dur~ the war. sane that hadn •t had their bottans scrapped in three years ani they had up to three foot of barnacles on it. We had taken on a cruiser, yes, it was a cruiser, but it had been on the water for so lo.ng. But men on our shift--we would have to work on crews. I was an o.rt:side Machinist. Ani first the crew would build like a • • • Q: A platform like • • • A: Yes, like a platform you might say. 'Ihen they would get away, ani then the chippers wou1d go in there ani they wou1d chip off all the thin;Js that they oculd in order for ma to be able to be in there. well, we had a tiJae of it. we had six heating torches on that at one tiJne ani they were on there for an halr, it was bronze. we felt like all of us-it was time to p.lt a wren::h em it. Wt'enahes were big. In order to hold a seventeen foot screw into place you can imagine about-they were about a1e ani ooe-half feet across ani were very st.rorq. Wlth a block and tackle we manaqed to get it in place. seven of us on a batterirq ram worked the th.in;. we wou1d work it back ani forth and evantual.ly w got it to cc::me loose. Well, when we got that off then we were d.a1e. others had to oc:me in ani attach the screw. Ani so w 'Wall.d go CNer to the ather side ani we would wrk on that one in order to ramve it. It was four screws em it all together. Q: New when w say SC1"8WB 'What are you talking about? A: '!he screws were the propellers. Stan Catherwood Memoir - Archives/Special Collections - Norris L Brookens Library - University of Illinois at Springfield - UIS stan Ca:theJ:WOOd 31 Q: Propellers? Ard you had to replace those? And that's what you used the biq wrench for? A: Yes. Q: How big wre the propellers on the muiser? A: '!hey were seventeen feet across. '!hey had three blades an::l you can imagine what a seventeen foot one would look like. Q: Now how long did it take you to take one of those off? A: well, I guess as far as it goes, ta1d.r:g all four of them off an::l get.tirg the new ones on probably c:x:st us abc:ut four weeks. You 'WOUld be amazed at sane of the stuff that 'Wet'lt on there. Q: Now that was just your crew work:ixq on the propeller? A: Yes. Q: Did you do arrt othar work in the shipyard? A: Ch yes. I was in the boiler one time workin;J away ani saMbody said, "-xhe war is ended!" well, we all 'Wet'lt out ani they said, "It's not official, but I think the war is en.ied." well, we went off aboard the ship. It was right at quittirg time ani we went off. '!here was newspaper camera men, Fox lb!ietane arxl all that, they were taking our pictures as we went off. But we figured we di.dn' t k:nc:M what the world was goirg to cane to because we knew we lNCUld be out of jabs. well, that night I heard that it was official. We went over to tong Beach, california that night-just a short distance-am visited same frien:ls of ours. Ani there was a lot of mischievous thin:Js went on in Los Arqeles that night. Q: Now you went over to your friends with your family? A: Yes. Q: Okay. Now do you know what year that was? '!be date? A: well, when the war ended. August of 1945. Q: Okay, so we're ta.J.ki.rg abcut the war in Japan? A: Yes, it was in ••• Q: Now before that the war had ended with Gennany, do you remember that? A: Yes. It was odd how I was working in two shipyams-I was workirg in Norfolk Shipbuildirg an::l Dl:y Dock when the German war en.ied and in california as the Japanese war en.ied. Stan Catherwood Memoir - Archives/Special Collections - Norris L Brookens Library - University of Illinois at Springfield - UIS T'lj" •- :,· stan ca:t:hel:WOOd 32 Q: 'lhat is intarestin;J. NCM what did you feel when the war was over? Were you happy or ware you just happy that it was aver? A: sure. I had been work:in:J with sane fellows that had been at Basilan Islam or pardon ne, it was not • • • well, anyhow they were in the Hlili:ppine Islams when the war broke. '!bey were captured by the Japanese ard held prisoner there ard later on they manage::l to get away. Ard sane of them did sane awful things I wc:uldn 1 t want to tell you about them but hOifl they killed Japs. one thin;J I remember--thank goodness those guys will never have to face that again. '!hey were fellows mainly ~ age, 21 years or 21 to 30 actually, but the fellows looked like they were 65. '!hey were aged so ImJ.ch. Q: WOrld War II was aver, what did you want to do nt:M? What did you want to do next? Did you have anyt:hirq to look forwani to? A: well, when the Jap war e:rded we plarmed on c::omin:J back to Sprin;Jfield to get our jobs back, if there were any left, an:i there were. I got on at Allis~ an:i I later on worked there for 35 years. I was assistant foreman four times. Everytime there would be a cutback I would autanatically get back to a machine, I would loose ~ seniority. so the fifth tilne they asked ne if I would take it I said, ''No, I wc:uld DUCh rather be on the machine that I knew that I wasr1 It goi.rq to be bl:ought back anynDr&o II Q: NOifl Mla.t machine did you work on? A: I worked on the class rati.n;Js: 1, 2, 3 an:i 4. I was double SAAA. '1hree ''A 1 s" behirrl ~ initial or behirrl ~ classification. It meant there was no one could touch it. It was a tool grirder. Q: so you were a specialist? A: Yes, that's what I mean. Q: Now was there a union at Allis~? A: Yes, there was the UAW-ciO. Q: Were you a member of that? A: Yes, I was. I still am. Q: were you ever a leader in the union? A: No, I wasn't. It was odd. I was the assistant foreman and I would be ~t back an:i the union would cc:me up to ne ani say, "How about runni.rg for your stewani? we want you to run for steward. 11 I was well received moon:J the -work:in:J fella.rn;. I wasn't-well, like acme of the fellows they was scared to get in the dark with any perscm. Q: Now after the war you went back to Allis- Stan Catherwood Memoir - Archives/Special Collections - Norris L Brookens Library - University of Illinois at Springfield - UIS stan catherwood 33 A: I started out at seventy-eight cents an hour. Q: Ani was that considered pretty good? A: Yes, it was good in those days and before I quit-I don't know. In other words I would work a satm:day or Sln"rlay mainly because your tum came to work it. Many a tllnes I •ve gone home with over a h.utrlred dollars in ~ pocket for workin;r a satw:day or a sun:lay. It was good pay, but as far as today it's low payi.ng compared with 'trhlat it was like. Q: Now, did the mrl.on help the pay scale go up? A: Oh yes! Very much so. In fact I was an organizer of the mrl.on. Q: Abait what time were you involved with organizing? A: 1930 • • • no, it was • • • 1942, yes. Q: Now you said after the war your family came back to Spri.nqfield. Did your mother and your sister cane also? A: Yes, they did. Q: And did they seek Etl'Cployment? A: Yes, Irr;f mother worked at 5an:;Jam:> Electric, I was with Allis-G1a1Jners, and Irr;f sister Bonnie was employed-well, she was goi.ng to sdlool at that time. Q: Now were you still liv.in;J with your family then? A: Yes, I did not marry until I was 29 years old. Q: WOUld you like to tell us about that? A: It was quite a day. My wife had bills that she had to pay and wouldn't marry me until those were paid. I don't :know why it is that she said that she would not marcy me but we lost a lot of years together. we •ve been married 35 years-it •s very happy. Q: Why don •t you tell us her name and her maiden name? A: Wilma catherWood. Her JMiden name was Wilma Brown. She was a twin and her brother lives in Florida. At that time she had one brother livirg in Kansas City, M:i.ssalri. He was an excellent restaurateur. he used to have a hundred cars in his parkin;r lot and he had seats for a hundred people. Erxi of Side 'nlo, Tape Two Q: Mr catherwood, at the erd of our last session you were beginning to talk about your marriage to Wilma B:rc:Mn. I would like to continue Stan Catherwood Memoir - Archives/Special Collections - Norris L Brookens Library - University of Illinois at Springfield - UIS