7272·. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. JULY 21;

The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senator from Ohio moves that FINAL ADJOURNl\lE~T. the Se!late adjourn. Mr. MORRISON. 1\Ir. Speaker, I desire to call up the privileged The motion was agreed to; and (at 5 o'clock and 45 minutes p.m.) resolution which I reported yesterday in relation to final adjournment. the Senate adjourned until to-morrow, Thursday, July 21, 1886, at The SPEAKER. The request of the gentleman from Massachusetts 11 o'clock a. m. [l\lr. DAVIS] is before the House, unless the regular order is called for. 1\Ir. VAN EATON. I call for the regular order. The SPEAKER. The regular order is called for. Mr. MORRISON. I ask that the resolution which I base called up HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. be read. WEDNESDAY, July 21, 1886. The resolutiori.was xead: as follows: L'l" TilE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, July 19,1886. The House met at 11 o'clock a.. m. Prayer by Rev. Dr. BULLOCK, Resolt,ed by the House of .Rep1·esentatives (the Senate concm-rin,g), That the Presi· of Washington. . de»:t of the f?enate and th~ Speake~· of ~he IIo~se of Representatives declare The Journal of tho proceedings of yesterday was read and approved. their I'espectiYe Houses adJourned sme d w at 3 o clock p.m. July 28,1886. · , ~ Mr. REAGAN. Mr. s·peaker, I ask the chairman of the Committee ALLE~ED FRAUDS OY THE TREAS?R1'." Ion 'Vays and Means to allow the Honse some opportunity for an ex- The SPEAKER laid ~efore the House a com~nmcation from th~ ~ec- pression of views on this resolution. . retary of the Treasury, m response to ~ resolu~wn o~ the House, gtnng The SPEAKER. If the previous question is ordered, there will be the reasons why a clerk was not det:all.ed to mvestigate a settleiD:ent thirty minutes for debat.e, fifteen minutes on each side. ma~e by R. D. Lancaster, and tra?sm1ttmg pape~ conne~ted theremth; Several MKllBERS. That is enough. · wh1ch was referred to the Comnu~tee on Expenditures m the Treasury Mr. MORRISON. I call the previous question on the resolution. Department! ana ordered to be pnnted. The previous question was ordered. OLEOM.ARGARINE. The SPEAKER.· Under the rules thirty minutes are allowed for- The SPEAKER also laid before the House the. bill (H. R. 8328) de- debate; fifteen minutes in .support of the resolution and fifteen min­ fining butter; also imposing a tax upon and regulating the manufacture, utes in opposition to it. sale, importation, and exportation of oleomiugarine,. with the amend- Mr. REAGAN. Mr. Speaker, I feel as anxious as any one does to ments of the Senate thereto, and stated that they would be referred to have our labors here closed; but I fear if we adopt this t·esolution to the Committee on Agriculture. . adjourn one week from to-day, and tb.e resolution should be concurred Mr. DUNHili. Mr. Speaker, I make the point of order that that, in by the Senate, we shall fail to perform a very important part of our being a revenue bill, it ought to go to the Committee on Ways and duty to the public. There are two bills at least (and I think it right Means. , · . I should mention them) which it seems to me of very great moment The SPEAKER. The Chair thinks that under the rule the bill would we should act upon. These bills ha,>e been matured in committees, go to the Committee on Ways and Means, but the House by a vote re- and no·great length of time will be 1·equired to ad upon them. One is ferred it originally to the Committee on Agriculture. · The gent~eman the bill to regulate interstate commerce. · That bill has been discussed has a right, however, to make a motion on the subject,' if he desires. f1·equently before this Honse in former Congresses and before the conn~ It is not for the Chair to decide absolutely and finally where the bill try; I do not suppose it will require a great deal of general discuesion. shall go. . . The subject has been acted upon by the Senate, and a Senate bill in The bill and amendments were referred to the Committee on Agri- relation to it is before us and in condition ·to be acted on· here. · For culture. twelve or fifteen yeara t~e country has been demanding in every form in which public opinion could be expressed legislation on this subject. POLICE REGli'LATIOYS FOR DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA.. The Senate having acted upon the question, if the disposition of the TheSPEAKERalso laid before the House an act (S. 2600) to authorize matter by the Ho\lSe should require a few days' dell'\.y, it seems to me the commissioners of the Distric.t of Columhla to make police regula­ proper we should consent to this delay; for it is due to the interests of tions for the government of said District;· which was referred to the the country that we act upon the subject. Committee on the District of Columbia. I wouJd also favor a delay of final adjournment for a few days longer than proposed, in order that the Northern Paei.fic land-grant forfeiture CIIANGE OF INDIAN SCHOOL BUILDI~G, 'YASHINGTO~ TERRITORY. bill may be ;taken up and acted npOii. I think it due to the public that The SPEAKER also laid before the House the bill (S. 2855) to au­ these two measures should be dispos~d of before w~ adjourn; and with thorize a change of location of a certain Indian school building in Wash­ this view I would be glad if the gentleman from Illinois would permit ington •rerritory; which was referred to the Committee on Indian Af- an amendment to fix Wednesday, the 4th of Augtl8t., as the day of.final fairs. . adjournment, 'IThich would be a postponement one week beyond the l'I!ESSAOE FRO.:U: THE SENA"TE. time proposed. If the Senate should find that an.adjonrnment can be The SPEAKER also laid before the House the following message from reached sooner, the matter could be arranged; or if a later date be nec­ the Senate: · · · essary, that can be settled by the way of amendment. I very much IN THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES, July 1!), 1886. desire that we should not fix in our resolution an earlier day than the Orde1·ed, That the Secretary be directed to furnish the House of Representa­ 4th of August, so that time may be allowed for action tlpon the two tivE's, in compliance with its request, an engrossed copy of the bill, Senate bill 1042, to pay B.S. James for transporting the United States mails. · measures which I have mentioned, and so as to wind up t~ business of the session without unnecessary haste. The SPEAKER. The Chair will state that since this xequest was I yield a minute or two to the gentlemanfromiowa [Ur.WEAVER]. made by the Honse the original engrossed bill received from the Senate 1\Ir. WEAVER, of Iowa. l\Ir. ~peaker, I concur heartily in there­ lias been found, has been reported back to the House, aud is now on marksoftheget;ttlemanfromTexas [Mr. REAGAN]. I do not think we tbe Calendar; so if there be no objection this copy will lie on the table. are now prepared to determine intelligently when this Congress can ad­ There was no objection, and it was so ordered. journ. Here are the land-forfeiture bills and the interstate-commerce LEA \E OF ABSENCE. bill; and in line with the land-forfeiture bills is the Oklahoma bill, not By unanimous consent, leave ·or absence was granted to l\Ir. T. J. 'second in importance toanyoneoftheland-forfeiture bills. It will take CAMPBELL and Mr. C&AI~ for the .remainder of the week. sometime, though nota great deal, to pass upon these questions. There would be time within the period now fixed by the resolution, ifthe House MOSES WILLIAMS. would get right down to business. But I fear that if the date named be Mr. CABELL, by unanimous consent, introduced a hill (H. R. 9928) fixed, it will be a signal to those who are opposed to .these measures to granting a pension to Moses Williams; which was read a first and sec­ consume time in order to prevent their passage. As the resolution now ond time, referred to the Committee on Invalid Pensions, and ordered stands I shall have to vote against it, I would much prefer that it be to be printed. amended in accordance with the suggestion of the gentleman from CAUSES OF YELLOW FEVER. Texas. · Mr. DAVIS. · 1\fr. Speaker, I ask unanimous consent that the Com­ :M:r. REAGAN. I yield three minutes to the gentleman from Ar­ mittee of the Whole be discharged from the further consideration of kansas [Mr. Du~N.] Senate billl730, with the amendments thereto, and that it be put upon Mr. DUNN. Mr. Speaker, I very much hope that the gentleman its passage. It is the bill providing for a commission to investigate into from illinois will allow the House to vote upon a proposition to fix the the alleged discovery of the specific causes of yellow fever and the best 4th of August as· the day of final adjournment. I perfectly well under­ methods of prevention. I will add that the amendments have secured stand and appreciate the anxiety of many members to get to their the support of gentlemen who previously opposed the bill, and I think homes pending their preliminary campaign; but gentlemen must re­ . there io; now no opposition to it. The a!llendments eliminate the pro­ member that if this session of Congress should adjourn without hav­ vision for paying the commission, and provide for a commission of two ing a vote upon three or four or five measures of great importance to persons now in the service of the Government, who shall receive no ad­ the country public expectation will be greatly disappointed. If there ditional compensation. The amendments also reduce the appropriation is one sentiment stronger in the public mind than another at the pres­ from $25,000 to $10,000. I sincerely trust that there will be no fur­ ent time it is the sentiment in fuvorof the forfeiture of unearned land ther opposition to the passage of the bill. grants. Public opinion is impatient at the delay which has already 1886. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 7273

occurred in aeting upon these measures; and gentlemen who may be special interest in them. They have a general interest, however; the instrumental in adjourning this session of Congress without a vote people of the whole country have a general interest in them; and I upon all those bills will hear from the P.eople; and they will be le...«s think, therefore, it is the duty of Congress to sit here until the neces­ anxious to hear from the people on that point than they are to hear sary legislation is perfected; and I want to see that courage exhibited from them just now on another. upon the part of members of this House which will induce them to The ri>er and harbor bill at the shortest session of the Forty-eighth stay here and vote for or against these great measures, and let them go Congress failed to p:lSS; and some hundreds of thousands of dollars to their constituents to m~et their appro>al or disapproval upon these have been wasted by the total cessation of works of improvement on vital questions as the case may be. rivers and harborS and by the failure of the meausnecessaryto protect Mr. REAGAN. I now yield two minutes to the gentleman from the works in progress. • Iowa [Mr. HEPBURN]. Again, if this Congress should adjourn without considering the bill Mr. HEPBURN. ~Ir. Speaker, I want to remind the House before to increase the efficiency of the Navy by inaugurating the building voting upon this resolution reported from the Committee on Ways and of additional naval vessels public eJtpectation will be very much dis­ Means, for- adjournment on the 28th instant, of some of the more im­ appointed. There is also ·the interstate-commerce bill, which stands portant bills which are ·now pending in the House and waiting its con­ second to none of these measures, but first in importance among them. sideration. There is, for instance, the anti-polygamy bill. There is the It has not bad a day in this House during this session of Congress. The interstate-commerce bill, the general bankruptcy bill, the international House is 1·eady to vote upon it. It is really ready to vote upon all these copyright bill, the land-grant forfeiture bills, the pension bill passed measures. And there are other measures which the public expects. by the Senate, the Oklahoma bill, the bill admitting Dakota, the tariff shall be acted upon. The dilatory proceedings inaugurated yesterday bill, the bill creating·tbe Agricultural Department, the free-ship bill, · in regard to the river and harbor bill admonish us that the gentlemen and many other important measures which are now upon our Calendars. who oppose that bill do not intend to allow a vote to be taken on it if Certainly there can be no excuse for adjournment until some if not all they can defeat it by dilatory measures or. by an early adjournment. of these important measures are considered, especially those relating to If there is anything in the threat intimated to us yesterday by the gen­ interstate·commerce and the pension laws of the country. We have an tleman from Indiana [:Mr. BROWNE], who seems to be in the confidence opportunity now to accomplish that legislation which the country de­ of the President, or intimates that he is-- sires. Tile Senate has passed the Cullom bill-a bill of judicious char­ :Ur. BROWNE, of Indiana. I never spoke to tbe President in my acter with reference to interstate commeTce, and which I believe meets life. the approval of a large majority of the Honse. We can have legisla­ Mr. DUNN. The gentleman warned us yesterdily that he was in­ tion upon that important snbject without doubt at this session if we formed that this bill could not become a law, even if passed by Con­ are not too hurried about this matter of adjournment. gress. That declaration could have but one meaning-that be was in­ I know gentlemen say it is now late. I do not so understand it. formed the President would >eto it. There is no one member of this body who is employed by his constit­ Mr. BROWNE, of Indiana. ~ have seen that in the newspapers I'e­ uents or the country for any shorter period of time than the whole year. peatedly, in the newspapers of the gentleman's own party; and that is The time for the adjournment of this House, if.it be neceSsary that it all I know about it. should remain in session that length of time, is the first .Monday in De­ Mr. DUNN. The gentleman from Indiana stands too high before cember next. That is the time these gentlemen are paid to serve their this country to add his high authority to mere newspaper garbage. He constituents. They are not paid for the purpose of hurrying off home can not afford to do .that on thi'3 floor. to enter into a political campaign. There is no excuse for abandoning Mr. BROWNE, Qfindiana. Well, I refer to the administration or- the public business. I desire the interstate-commerce bill~ to be con­ gan in this city-the Post. _ sitlered. I want the Cullom bill to be p:lSSed. I want an opportunity Mr. DUNN. Well, the gentleman from Indiana cannot afford togo to vote for it nnd to urge its passage upon others. It is not all that I before the country upon that assurance. Yon must have had some would have it, but in the main it is a . wise, judicious measure. As it greater reason or better assurance than mere newspaper mention. I will come before the House it will be cumbered with the bill known as say, sir, that we should have a vote upon each one of these bills, and the Reagan bill. If we can get rid of this by a vote, the question will we want time to do it. then recur upon the Cullom bill, which I hope will be passed. Mr. ROWELL. Do I understand the gentleman to say that the Mt·. REA.GA.N. I now yield the remaining time to the gentleman President l1as gone to the Republicans for his counsel? from Kentucky [.Mr. WILLIS]. · Mr. DUNN. And we can not agree to anything that will not permit Mr. WILLIS. l\Ir. Speaker, I sincerely hope this adjournment res­ a full opportunity to discuss and Tote upon that bil1, as well as all of olution will be postponed at least for a 1tnv days. What, sir, is the these other matters to which reference bas been made. present condition of legislation in Congress? Three great appropriation Mr. REAGAN. How much time have I remaining? Wlls of this House-the sundry civil bill, the deficiency bill, and the The SPEAKEH. The gentleman bas seven minutes. fortifications bill-have not yet come out of the committee in the Senate. Mr. REAGAN. I yield two minutes to the gentleman from Penn­ l\Ir. RYAN. Oh, yes; the gentleman is mistaken a.bout that. The sylvania [:Ur. BAYNE]. sundry civil bill is about finished. Mr. BAYNE. l\Ir. Speaker, it strikes me that the only question em­ Ur. BROWN, of Pennsylvania. The Senate sat nearly allla t night bodied iu this resolution is whether we shall pass the river and harbor finishing it. bill or other necessary legislation before adjournment or not. When 1\lr. .DUNHA.U. And the deficiency bill has been 1·cported. the committee saw fit to dump in all the appropnation bills at the end Mr. WILLIS. The deficiency bill has not yet been reported. of the session, although I think they bad but four-- :Mr. DUNHAM. I beg the gentleman's pardon; it has been reported. Ur. DUNHAM. Six:. Ur. WILLIS. And the naval bill is in conference, while the rher l\Ir. RYAN. They had six bills- and harbor bill has not yet gone to conference. 1\fr. BAYNE. Although they had but six bills to consider and re­ Ur. RANDALL. But the deficiency bill has been reported to the port on, and thereby gave the Senate but a very short time to consider Senate. them, so short indeed that the Senate has to sit up now at nights to l\Ir. WILLIS. · Well, that does not change very much the situation. give them consideration, it is but fair to the interests of this country The important bills are yet to be acted upon. The surplus resolution that we should take a Httle more time now in order to perfect neces­ 'to which we attached so much importance is not yet out of the com­ sary legislation which has been prepared by the committees. mittee. The river and harbor bill I regard as one that is absolutely essential Now, what do we propose to do? If we pass this resolution we place to the best interests of this country. It will undoubtedly be a great it in the hands, not of a minority, even, but only of forty memberS on mistake on the part of Congress to adjourn without passing such a bill. this floor to defeat every one of· these great and important bills. The If any gentleman will take the trouble to examine the rep'Orts of the sundry civil bill has between two and three hundred amendments. engineers of the United States Army and read them with any degree of When it comes to the bar of the House it can be challenged upon each care and see what the urgent necessities of the commerce of the country one of these amendments. Each one can, if it be necessary to con­ demand, be will not hesitate I think to support the river and harbor sume time, be considered in Committee of the Whole, and the whole bil1, which ma,kes a judicious appropriation 1or the improvement of the time of the session between now and the 28th of this month can be navigable water ways of the country. There is a clamor raised against and will be consru'ned upon the sundry civil bill alone. The naval the bill; the press of the country has to some extent denounced it. bill, the surplus resolution, the reconstruction of the Navy, the inter­ All sorts of wild and illy-considered diatribes are hurled against it; state-commerce bill, all of these great and important measures will but notwithstanding all that, I believe the navigation inte1·ests of this fall to the ground. country, with the great commerce depending upon them, are deserving 1\Ir. MORRISON. 1\lr. Speaker, if it be permissible to refer to what of the careful consideration of Congress, and that Congress should not is going on at the other end of the Capitol, I may say we have reason adjourn until it makes an appropriation to meet the requirements of to suppose the House is in·ad vance of the Senate in the matter of legis­ that commerce. The introduction of this resolution at this time is to lation, and especially in legislation which must be clone before any ad­ shut off this appropriation. The river and harbor bill seems to meet journment can be had; it is therefore altogether probable that this res­ with embarrassment in many parts of the country. The inland dis­ olution: if adopted, will amount to nothing more than information to tricts and sections not bordering upon streams or navigable waters· are the Senate that the House,can be ready to adjourn at the time named. ndYerse to the improvement of our water ways because they have no The measures of which the gentleman ~rom Kentucky [Mr. Wn.. Lis] 7274 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. JULY 21,

has spoken, the surplus resolution and the other matters to which he that be might have set us an example of speedy action upon the appro­ has referred, are in charge of the body at the other end of the Capitol, priation bills that were left to him. [Laughter.] The other commit­ and, from wJ:lat I have observed., I deem it safe to predict that the sur­ tees on appropriations have had.ample time and opportunity to consider plus resol11:tion will not occupy much of the time of that body. Per­ their business with fullness and amplitude of de~'\il I want simply to haps I ought not to say this, Qnt I say it because I think I 1.-now it. point out the charming Arcadian simplicity of the situation which the In regard to the measures to which the gentleman from Texas [Mr. gentlemen on the other side have had to deal with this session, a per­ REAGAN] bas referred, I am in sympathy with him in desiring consid­ fectly uninterrupted flow, perfect opportunity for the display of their eration of the interstate-commerce bill and of the bills forfeiting un­ varied talents, perfect opportunity to pass evei:y measure which they earned land grants; and if gentlemen will cease talking and go to work deemed consistent with the bonorJ the dignity, the glory of the coun­ these measures can and will be considered. [Applause and cries of try· and it is to the credit of the gentlemen who have spoken this morn­ "He:u!" "Hear!" and " Thatisright!"] Several months ago orders ing that, after all the Democrat.ic party have achieved this session, they were passed enabling the Committee on Public Lands to enter upon the still find other fields of achievement open and possible for them. consiJeration of these bills of forfeiture, and now after the lapse of many It shows that there are men in-the Democratic party who are in ad­ months they are still lll;lconsidered. vance of the great mass of "reform'' gentlemen who intended to make . :Mr. BROWN, of Pennsyl""ania. They would not consider them if we this country blossom like the rose, but who do not seem thus far to ha>e staid here all summer. ·absolutely succeeded. [Laughter.] M r. MORRISON. So it is with the interstate-commerce-pill. Four It does seem to me about time we s~10uld make some attempt toward OI' fhe months, or at least months, ago t-he committee having that bill findi~g the end of this session. It would seem that the country at least, in charge was given the right of way to call it up on the morning of 'if one can judge by the expressions of public opinion, is satisfied we have any day. had full trial of our opportunities and capabilities. If these measures llh. DUNN. But that right of way: was taken away from the com­ which are spoken of have not been brought up, who is to be blamed? mittee repeatedly by vote of the Honse. After eight months of this session of Congress have passed: can we do Mr. HENLEY. And the same is true of the Committee on Public anything better than make an attempt toward adjournment? The Land,. othex branch ·of Congress, if it should find that the public business re­ :Mr. MORRISON. Certainly; and if the House desires to take away quires a modification of the resolution, will make such modification, that right to-day, or. to-morrow, or the next day, it will do so; and, on and then the resolution will come back to us to be considered in the the other band, if the House desires to consider the me..'\Sure, it can con­ lightofall thecircumstancesofthecase. [Criesof"Vote." "Vote!"] sider it to-morrow. Mr. MORRISON. As the gentleman from Uaine has now relieved Mr. REAGAN. I hope the gentleman will permit me to say a word himself of what he wanted to say, I demand a vote. in rct}ly to his statement about the interstate-commerce bill. Before 'I'he SPEAKER. The gentleman from Iowa [1\ir. WEAVER], as the we could get our bill through the House the Senate passed a bill on the Chair understood, moved to recommit. same subject., and we; felt that it was useless to consider our bill until fr. WEAVER, of Iowa. With instructions to report a resolution we could get the Senate bill before us, and from that time to this the fixing the 4th day of August for final adjournment.. gentleman himself and others have occupied the time of the House wiih The question being taken on-the motion of .Mr. WEAV~, of Iowa, appropriation bills and other measures that have precedence over the to recommit, it was not agreed to; there being-ayes 39, noes 152. interstate-commerce bill. · The question being taken ou the adoption of the resolution, it was Mr. MORRISON. I am not complaining of the committee or of t.he adopted; there being-ayes 145, noes 36. gentlem~n at all. I am only assuring him that I am in sympathy with Ur. MORRISON moved to reconsider the vote by which the resolu­ him in his desire to pa...~ that bill, and if the Honse ipclines the same tion was adopted; and also moved that the motion t.o recommit be laid way he can consider his bill to-day or any day before adjournment_ on the tahle. · Mr. HENLEY. Mr. Speaker, in justice to the Committee on Pub­ The latter motion was agreed to. lic Lands I desire to say that there has not been an hour of this session when the Committee on Public Lands have not been trying to haYe INCREASE OF NAVAL ESTABLISHMENT; these land-forfeiture bills considered. Mr. MORRISON. I am directed by the Committee on· Rules to call Mr. REED, of Mairie. If they baYehad solittle suc~in the past, up the resolution reported by me yesterday, fixingadayforthe consid- wbat do they hope for in the future? ·[Laughter.] . ernlion of House bill No. 6664. Mr. HENLEY. The want of success has been owing in part to op- The Clerk read as follows: poMsitio~.. coORmRinlgSOfrNom tMrhe gSentlekman frotom tMhain~. . d b ·b b.ll I R esolved, That Thursday, t he 22d day of July, immediately after the reading r. 1u • • pe..'\ er, as e nver an ar or 1 ' · of the Journal be set apart for consideration or House bill 6664 entitled "A bill need hardly say that that bill is quite as well able to take care of itself to increase the' naval establishment;" and if the consideration 'or said bill shall as it ought to be Daughter], and its friends· need have no cause for not be completed on th~ do.y, then Saturday next, immediately after the read­ alarm. I will not detain the House longer. ~~-of the Journal, is hereby set a par~ for the further considorntion of the said Mr. REAGAN. Mr. Speaker, I will aSk the gentleman whether he will consent to have the House vote upon an amendment to this reso­ Mr. REAGAN. Mr. Speaker, I trust the House.will not adopt this lution? resolution. The gentleman from Illinois has just secured the passage Mr. MORRISON. Ob, no. I demand the previous question . . of a. 1·esolution fixing a day for final adjournment, and now he proposes Mr. WEAVER, of Iowa. ?t1r. Speaker, I wish to move to recommit to select the bills w:ijich shall occupy the time between now and the the resolution with instructions. adjournment. I am in favor of the naval bill all the time, but I would l\lr. REED, of Maine. Mr. Speaker, I desire to say a few words be­ prefer to act on a bill upon which action is much more generally P,e­ fore the vote is taken. mauded by the country. I trust the Honse at this stage of the session Mr. MORRISON. I will yield to the gentleman from Maine [MI'. will not take a course which may preclude the possibility of consider­ REED], who is a member of the committee reporting the resolution. ing the intm"State-commerce bill, which certainly, so far as the public The SPEAKER. How much time does the gentleman yield? sentiment and the wish of the country are concerned, stands·pre-emi­ Ur. MORRISON. All the gentleman wants, if I have so much. nently above any other measure now before the House. I hope this The SPEAKER. The gentleman [Mr. MORRISON] has ten minutes resolution will not be adopted. remaining. Mr. :MORRISON. Before moving the previous guestion I desire to Mr. REED, of Maine. Mr. Speaker, I suppo e it would not be at say a word. I have been directed by the Committee on Rules to report all difficult to make some piquant comments on the present situation this resolution and to urge its adoption. If a-dopted it will pnt the of affairs, but I do not intend to indulge myself in anything of that Committee on. Naval Affairs as to the consideration of this bill for the sort. I suppose that the whole House recognizes the actual situation. increase of the naval establishment exactly where tl1e Committee on The summer is past, the harvest is about ended, and whether anybody Commerce is in relation to the question of interstate commerce, and is saved or not can not be determined by discussions here or prophetic where the Committee on Public Lands is in relation to the question oi utterances. · · land forfeitures. It will put it in the power of the House to consiuer \\' e have been in sesSion about eight months. Every gentleman con­ whichever of these measures it desires to consider, to-morrow or on any nected witli the me..'\SUres that have been spoken af this morning has other day. When this bill comes up any gentleman can raise the ques­ of course done his whole duty, has been instant in season and out Qf tion of consideration. season, but the result bas been that we have failed of accomplishment Mr. REAGL""f. I would like to know from the Speaker, if be'feels to any very great extent, and if we should st.ay here any longer it seems free to express an opinion, whether the gentleman from Illinois has to me that ~e should probably have about the same result with more properly intexpreted the eifect of this 1·esolution. The gentleman expenditure of time. assumes that the resolution would simply place the Naval Committee, I simply want to call the Honse to witness that the majority have with reference to this bill, in the same position in which the Com­ met with DO factious opposition, no waste of time, DO spinning out of mittee on Commerce stands V\rith relation to the interstate-commerce debates, no hampering. They have had the rules changed to suit them­ bill, and in which other committees stand in regard to bills for the selves; they have had most abundant opportunity for the transaction consideration of which a day bas been fixed. Heretofore in several in­ ofbn iness. My friend the chairman of the Committee on Appropria­ stances where days have been set for the consideration of particular tions [Mr. RANDALL] has had his burdens lightened to such a.n extent measures it has been held that all other special Qrders were excluded.

. 1886. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 7275

I think it right the House should now know whether we are to be en­ Jones,J.T. 1\fitcbell, Rice, Taylor, I. H. trapped into the same state of affairs in the closing days of this session. KeUey, Moffatt., Richardson, Taylor, J.l\f. Ketcham, Morgan, Rockwell, Taylor, Zach. The SPEAKER. The Chair will sta.te that this resolution will set King, Morrill, Romeis, Thomas, 0. B. apart-in other words dedicate-the two days named in it for the con­ Laffoon, Morrison, Ryan, Thompson, sideration of the bill for the increase of the naval establish!nent; and Landes, 1\lorrow, Sadler~ '.rillman, Lanham, Muller, Sawyer, Townshend, it would exclude all other business on those days. Lawler, Murphy, Sayers, Trigg, 1\Ir .. WARNER, of Ohio. It would exclude the land-forfeiture bills, Lehlbach, Neal, Scott, Turner, would it not? Lindsley, Neece, Scranton, 'Vakefield, Little, Negley, Seymour, "\Vallace, 1\Ir. MORRISON. In this same way days h.:we been fixed for the Long, Nelson, Shaw, Wa.rd,T.B. consideration of the interstate-commerce bill and public-land measures; Lore, Oates, Smalls, Warner, 'Villiam and the question of consideration has been frequently raised, and those Lovering, O'Ferrall, Sowden. Weber, Martin, O'Neill, Charles Stephen-son, _ 'Vest, mrosures have been set aside for the day or sometimes postponed for a Maybury, Osborne, Stewart, Charles Wheeler, longer time. l::s I understand, the same thing may be done under this .1\Ic.Adoo, Owen, St. Martin, White, A. C. resolution. Mr. Speaker, is not that true·? . McComas, Parker, Stone, E. F. "White,l\filo McCreary, Payne, Storm, Wilkins, The SPEAKER. The Chair thinks the House can never put it out· McKenna, Perkins, Strait, Willis, of its power to decide a~ the time when any particular measure comes 1\Ic.l\lillin. Pettibone, Swinburne, Wilson, up whether it will consider it or not; that is to say, any gentleman, Merriman, Pirce, Swope, Wise, Millard, Price, Tarsney, Woodburn, under the rules, has the right to raise the question of consideration. Mills, Randall, Taulbee, Worthington. A MEMBER. And does a majority decide that? ' The SPEAKER. A majority decides. N.AYS-47. Mr. MORRISON. I move the previous question. Anderson,J. .A. Fuller, Matson, Snyder, Mr. DUNHAM. I desire to ask a parliamentary inquiry. Does Burnes, Geddes, I\!<> Rae, Spt·inger, Bynum, Harris, Pa~on , Stone, ,V, .T., Mo. this resolution "fix" these days or "set apart" these days? Caldwell, Hatch, Pee, Struble, The SPEAKER. It sets them apart. Campbell, J. M. Hepburn, Perry, Van Eaton, Catchings, Holman, Peters, Warner,A..J. Mr. REAGAN. I understood the Chair to say that the resolution Clardy, Jackson, Pidcock, Weaver,.A.J. would give this business the exclusive right to those days. Clements, Kleiner, Plumb, Weaver,.J.B. The SPEAKER. In the same way, Friday of each weekissetapart Cobb, La Follette, Reagan, Wellborn, Crisp, LeFevre, Rowell, Winans, for the consideration of private busin~; yet: although the House may Dorsey, Lowry, Singleton, Wolford. not vote to dispense with private business, each bill as it comes up is Ellsberry, Lyman, Skinner, su~ject to the question of consideration. When the gentleman from NOT VOTING-33. Alabama [Mr. HERBERT] under this order calls up his bill to-morrow Adams,J.J. Crain, Libbey, Seney, morning or Saturday morning any gentleman under the rules of the Aiken, · Daniel, . Louttit, Sessions, House, which this resolution does not change, will have the right to Anderson, C. M. Davenport, Mahoney, Spooner, raise the question ofconsideration·against it. A.rnot1 Dawson, Markham, Spriggs, Atkinson, Dibble, McKinley, Stahlnecker, Mr. WARNER, of Ohio. In favor of any other bill? Baker, Dowdney, l\-liller, Steele, The SPEAKER. Not in faver of any other bill. Any gentleman can Barbour, Fell on, Milliken. Stewart. J. W. raise the question of consideration, and then if the House determines not Barksdale, Ford, Norwood, Stone, W. J., Ky. Bames, Gibson, C. H. O'Donnell, Symes, to consider this bill it will go on with the other business of the House. Beach, Gibson, Eustace O'Hara Taylor, E. B. Mr. BUCK. That to be determined by the majori~y vote? Bingham, Glover, O'Nem:J.J. Thomas, J. R. The SPEAKER. Yes, that to be determined by the majority vote. Bland, Green, W.J. Outhwaite, Throckmorton, Bliss, Hammond, PhelJ:ll3, Tucker, It is a right which can not be taken away from members. It is pro· Bragg, Hanback. Pindar, Van Schaick, vided for in the rules of the House. Brumm, Hemphill, Ranney, Viele, The previous question was ordered. Butterworth, Holmes, Reed,T.B. Wade, Campbell,J.E. Houk, Reid,1.W. Wadsworth, :Ur. SPRINGER. Is it in order to moYe to recommit this? Campbell, T.J. · Howard, Reese, Wait, The SPEAKER. It is. Cll.!:!well, Irion, Riggs, Ward,J.H. Mr. SPRINGER. Then I move to recommit with the following in­ Compton, ~t~s~n,F.A.· Robertson, Whiting. structions. Cooper, . Rogel'S, The Clerk read as follows: So.the resolution wa,s adopted. R esolved, That the order heretofore adopted requiring the House to adjourn at During the roll-call, 5 o'clock p. m. be, and the same is hereby, rescinded. On motion of Mcl\IIJ,LIN, by unanimous consen~ the reading of the :Mr. MORRISON. No. [Cries of "No!"] names was dispensea with. . Mr. SPRINGER. If I can get unanimous consent to refer that to. l\Ir. REED, of Maine. I ask permission to vote. the Committee on Rules I will withdraw the motion to recommit. I The SPEAKER. Was the gentleman present when his name was think that order should be rescinded, because we can not do anything called? · under it. l\Ir. REED, of Maine. I was not. Mr. SPRINGER's motion to recommit was disagreed to. The SPEAKER. Under the rules the Chair can not even entert.Un The SPEAKER. The question recurs on the adoption of the reso- the request. lution. · The following pairs were announced: :Mr. McADOO. I ask for a division. · l\Ir. DmBLE with Mr. BAKER. for the balance of the week. The House divided; and there were-ayes 108, noes 41. Until further notice: l\fr. ANDERSON, of Kansas. No quorum has voted. [Cries of Mr. THROCKMORTON with Mr. WADSWORTH. "No!"] l\Ir. :MILLER with Mr. HouK. :Mr. PAYSON. I demand the yeas and nays. Mr. DOWDNEY with Mr. O'HARA. The yeas and nays were ordered. · 111r. D.il.'LEL with Mr. WHITING. The question was taken; and it was decided in the affirmative-yeas Mr. SPRIGGS with Mr. OWEN. 192, nays 47, not voting 83, as follows: ·l\fr. DAWSON with lli. RANNEY. l\Ir. HAMM6::tn) with Mr. PAYNE. YEAS-192. l\Ir. NORWOOD with Mr. O'DONNELL. Adams, G. E. Cabell, Eldredge, Halsell. Mr. ROBERTSON with Mr. STEELE. Allen, C. H. _Campbell, Felix Ely, Harmer, Allen , J. M. Candler, Ermenh·out, • Hayden, l\fr. RIGGS with Mr. PHELPS. Ballentine, Cannon, Evans, Haynes, l\Ir. llLA.ND with M:r. VANSCHAICK. · Barry, Carleton, Everhart, Heard, . Mr. GREEN, of North Carolina, with Mr. li.AJ,.-rnACK. Bayne, Collins, Farquhal", Henderson, D. B. Belmont, Comstock, Findlay, Henderson, J. S. Mr. ARNOT with l\Ir. THOlll.AS, of Illinois. Bennett, Conger, Fisher, Henderson, T. J. Jlt!r. ROGERS with Mr. EZRA B. TAYLOR. Blanchard,, Cowles, Fleeger, Henley, Mr. BARBOUR with l\fr. LmBEY. Blount, Cox, Foran, Herbert, Bound, Croxton, Forne;)o', Hermann, Mr. BARKSDALE with l\lr. DAVENPORT. Boutelle, Culberson, Frederick, Hewitt, Mr. REID, of North Carolina, with Mr. WAlT. Boyle, Curtin, Funston, Hiestand, l\Ir. Brady, Cutcheon, Gallinger, Hill BRAGG- with Ur. CASWELL, for the remainder of the session. Breckinridge, C. R. Dargan, Gay, Hir~s, Mr. 0UTHW.A.ITE with Mr. LOUTTIT, for this day. Breckinridge,WCP.Davidson, A. C. Gilfillan, Hiscock, l\lr. SENEY with Mr. BUTTERWORTH, for this day. Bro1vne, T. :\1. Davidson, U. H. M. Glass, Hitt, l\Ir. BARNES with :Ur. FELTON, _on this vote. Brown, C. E . Davis, Goff, Hopkins, Brown, W. ,V, Dingley, Green, R. S. Hudd, Ur. SPOONER with Mr. GIBSON, of West Virginia, on this vote. Buchanan, Dockery, Grosvenor, Hutton, Mr. CAMPBELL, of Ohio, with Mr. SESSION'S, for this day. Buck, Dougherty, Grout, James, Mr. Bunnell, Dunham, Guenther, .Johnston, .J. T. Mr. ANDERSON, of Kansa.s, with HOLII:l.ES, on this vote. Burleigh, Dunn, Hale, Johnston, T. D. Mr. BRUMM. I was absent during the roll-calJ, in the Senate on Burrows, Eden, Hall, .Jones,J.~. official business, and ask leave to \Ote. 7276 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. JULY· 21,

The SPEAKER. Under the rules the. Chair can not entertain the Mr. HENLEY. But I wish to make a privileged report f1·om the request. Committee on Public Lands. Mr. BRU.Ml\1. I would have voted in the affirmative. The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Texas, who wasrecognized, Mr. ST..A.HLNECKER. I wish to state I would have voted in the calls up a special order of the House, which is also privileged, and of affirmative if I had been present during the roll-call. as high a privilege as the other; in fact higher, because it is made a The result of the vote was announced as above recorded. special order by the House. Mr. MORRISON moved to reconsider the vote by which the resolu­ 1\Ir. HENLEY. Then I raise the question of consideratiorr. tion was adopted; and also moved that the motion to reconsider be laid The SPEAKER. The gentleman lias a right to do that. on the table. Mr. HENLEY. · I do so because I wish to reach the consideration of The latter motion was agreed to. the Northern Pacific land-grant forfeiture bill. The SPEAKER. The Clerk will report the title of the bill called ORDER OF :BUSI!o.'"ESS. up by the gentleman from Texas. The SPEAKER. The regular order has been demanded. The Cletk read as follows: Mr. WILLIS. I move to dispense with the morning hour for the A bill (S. 1532) to regulate commerce. call of committees. - The question was taken; and (two-thirds voting in favor thereof) the The SPEAKER. The gentle~an from California raises the question motion was agreed to. of consideration as against this bill. The question is, Will the House Mr. WILLIS. I move that the House resolve itself into Committee proceed to consider it 'i> of the Whole on the state of the Union. 1\Ir. RANDALL. Will the Speaker state the exact question? The motion was agreed to. The SPEAKER. The gentleman from California states that he de· sires to make a privileged report from the Committee on the Public RIV'E.R AND IIA.RBOR :BILL. Lands to forfeit the unearned lands granted the Northern Pacific Rail­ The House accordingly resolved itself into Committee of the Whole road Company, and for that purpose raises the question of considera­ on the state of the Union, Mr. HATCH in the chair. tion against the interstate-commerce bill called up by the gentleman The CHAIRMAN. ·The House is now in Committee of the Whole from Texas. . for the further consideration of the river and harbor bill. The question is, Will the House now Droceed to consider the inter- The Clerk will report the pending amendment. state-commerce bill? - The Clerk read as follows: The question was taken; and on a division there were-ayes 94, noes 66. • · Strike out lines 155 to 1S9 inclusive. 1\ir. HENLEY. Let us have the yeas and nays. The CHAIRMAN. When the committee rose last night the tellers The' question was taken; and there were-yeas 142, nays 99, not vot- were about to take their places on a vote on this amendment, That ing 81; as follows: - vote will now be taken anew. · YEAS-142. Mr. HEWITI'. Before that I desire to make a brief statement. Adams, G. E. Dingley, Laird, Rockwell, Allen, C. H. Dorsey, Landes, .Rowell, I am satisfied, after a conference with the members of the collllliittee Allen, J. M. Dougherty, I.anham, Ryan, in charge of this bill, that the object I have in view will be accom­ Anderson, J. A. .Dunn, J..ehlbach, Sadler, plished by voting non-concurrence in the amendments generally. The Atkinson, Evans, Libbey, Sawyer, :Ballentine, Fleeger, Lindsley, Sayers, committee have now had their attention attracted to the matter, and I Barry, Fuller, Long, Scott, am sure when the conference is ordered it will act in accordance with Bayne, FunstQn, Lyman; Singleton. the views practically indorsed by the House; and if we can have a vote :Bingham, Gay, Martin, Skinner, Blancha1·d, Gilfillan, 1\Iaybm·y, Smalls, upon that amendment as upon the others I shall ask unanimous con- Bliss, Glass, McComas, Snyder, sent to withdraw the motion. . Bound, Glover, McKinley, Stephenson, The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection? :Brady, . Goff, 1\lillard, Stewart, Charles Breckinridge, C. R. Guenther, Mills, St. Martin, There was no objection, so the motion was withdrawn. Browne, T. M. Halsell, Morgan, Stone, E. F. Mr. HEWITT. I ask the gentleman from Kentucky if it is under­ Brown, C. E. Harmer,- Morrill, Strait, stood we shall have a vote upon that if .demanded in the House? Buck, Haynes, Morrison, Swinburne, Bunnell, Heard, Morrow, Tarsney, . .. Mr. WILLIS. That is understood. Burleigh, Hemphill, Murphy, Taulbee, I now renew my motion to non-concur in the Senate amendment. Burnes, Henderson, D. B. Negley, '.ray lor, J. M. :Mr. BRECKINRIDGE, of Arkansas. To what extent, let me ask Burrows, Henderson, T. J. Nelson, · Taylor, Zach. Bynum, Hepburn, Oates, '.rhomas, 0. :B. the gentleman from Kentucky, do you grant a vote in the House on Caldwell, Herbert, O'Ferrall, Tillman, disagreement to these amendments? On what portion or what portions Campbell, Felix Hewitt, Osborne, Trigg, of the amendment is a separate vote to be pe-rmitted? On any amend­ Campbell, J. M. Hiscock, Payne, Turner, Cannon, Hitt, Perkins, Wade, ment on which a gentleman may demand a separate vote? ·Catchings, Holmes, Perry, Wakefield, Mr. WILLIS. No, sir; because we would be here four months in Clardy, Hopkins, Peters, Wallace, that event. There are four or five amendments, as I stated yesterday, Clements, Hudd, Pettibone, 'Veaver, A. J. Conger, Irion, Pindar, Weber, which the Senate have incorporated upon the bill that are of an im­ Crisp, Jackson, Pirce, Wellborn. portant character. These are matters that will be brought up in the Culberson, James, Plumb, White, Milo House and a separate vote permitted upon them. Cntcheon, Jones, J. H. Price, Wilkins, Dargan, .Jones,J.'.r. R-eagan, Wilson. I now renew my motion to non-concur. Davidson, R. H.l\I. Kelley, Reed,T.B. The motion was agreed to. Davis, King, Rice, Mr. WILLIS. ;r now move that the committee rise and report non. NAYS-99. concurrence in the Senate amendment, and consent to the conference Belmout, Findlay, Laffoon, Shaw, asked for. Bennett, Fisher, l-awler, Sowden, The motion was agreed to. Blount, Foran, LeFev1·e, Spooner, :Boyle, Ford, Lo1·e, Springer, The committee accordingly rose; and the Speaker having resumed Brown, ,V. W. Forney, Lovering, Stone, W. J., Ky. the chair, Mr. HATCH reported that the Committee of the Whole House Brumm, Geddes, Lowry, StQne, ,V. J., 1\lo. on the state of the Union having had under consideration the river and Cabell, Gibson, C. H. Markham, Storm, . Candler, Green,R.S. Matson, Struble, harbor appropriation bill, with Senate amendment thereto, had directed Carleton, Grosvenor, 1\lcCreary, Swope, him to report the same to the House with recommendation that it be Caswell, Grout, McKenna, Taylor, I. II. non-concurred in, and consent given to the request for a conference. Cobb, Hale, McMillin, Thompson, Collins, Hall, McRae, '.rown bend, 1\Ir. WILLIS. On that I demand the previous question. Comstock, Harris, Milliken, Van Eaton, The previous question was ordered, under the operation of which the Cox, Hatch, Moffatt, 'Vard,J.R. report of the Committee of the Whole was agreed to. Croxton, Hayden, Neal, Ward,T.B. Davidson, A.. C. Henderson, .J. S. Neece, Warner, A. J. Mr. WILLIS moved to reconsider the last vote taken; and also mo>ed. Docke.ry, Henley, O'Neill, Charles 'Varner, William that the motion to reconsider be laid on the table. · Dunham, Hermann, O'Neili,J.J. West, The latter motion was agreed to. Eden, Hiestand, Pai"ker, 'Vhite, A. C. Eldredge, Hil1, Payson, 'Villis, The SPEAKER announced as managers at said conference on the part Ely, Holman, Peel, \Vinans, of the Honse 1\Ir. WILLIS, 1\!r. BL.A.SCHABD, and Mr. HEXDERSOY, of Ennen trout, Hutton, Pidcock, 'Vise, illinois. Everhart, Johnston, J. T. Randall, Wolford, Farquhar, Johnston, T. D. Richardson, 'Worthington. ORDER OF :B'C'SI:XE S. Felton, Kleiner, Seymour, Mr. HE~LEY addressed the Chair. NOT VOTING-81. Mr. REAGAN. I rise to make apririleged motion. I move to take Adams,J.J. Barksdale, Breckinl'idge,,vcr.Cooper, up the Senate bill to regulate interstate commerce. Aiken, Barnes, Buchanan, Cowles, Mr. HENLEY. I rise to make a privileged report. Anderson, C. M. Beach, Butterworth, . Crain, Arnot, Bland, Campbell, J. E. Curtin, The SPE4,KER. But the gentleman from Texas calls up a special :Baker, Boutelle, Campbell, T. J. Daniel, mder. :Barbour, Bragg, <.:ompton, Davenport, 1886. CONGRESSIONAL · RECORD-HOUSE. 7277

Dawson, La Follette, Ranney, Taylor, E. B. Mr. DUNHA'M. I shall have to object for the present at least. Dibble, Little, Reid,J. W. Thomas,J.R. Some time sub!>equently, .: Dowdney, I .. outtit, Reese, Throckmorton, Mr REAGAN. l.@:r. §~eaker, the gentleman from Illinois supposed the Senate Ellsberry, 1\Iahoney, Riggs, Tucker, bill ~ns not on the Ua.Iendar. I have explained to him the situation, and that Frederick, 1\Ic.A.doo, R()bertson, VanSchaick, the object was to con!!ider it with the House bill, to which I understand be is Gallinger, Merriman, · Rogers, Viele, willing to withdraw his objection. Gibson, Eustace .1\Iiller, Romeis, 'Vadswortb, Mr. Dm."HAM. I shall withdraw the objection. Green, ,V. J. 1\iitcbell, Scrant()n, 'Vait, The SPEAKER. 'Vithout further objection, the order requested by the gentle­ Hammond, Muller, Seney, 'Vea.ver, J. B. man from Texas will be made. llanback, Norwooe to print remarks on The result of the >ote was then announced as above recorded. this bill. The SPEAKER. '.rhe Honse determines to proceed with the con­ 1\!r. DUNHAM. Mr. Speaker, I rise to a point of order. -sideration of the bill to regulate commerce. The Chair thinks the The SPEAKER. The gentleman will state it. Senate bill is in Committee of the Whole on the state of the Union. Mr. D UNHA~f. There is nothing before the Honse. I demand the hfr. REAGAN. The bill, as the Chair will see by referring to the reading of the bill. order, is in the Honse as in Committee of the Whole. The Chair will 'l'he SPEAKE H. The gentleman from Illinois dem::mds the·rending remember that there was an agreement that the Senate bil.l was to be of the bill, which he has a right to do. put under the special order which bad been made in reference to the Mr. REAGAN. If the gentleman does not understand the bill, let House bill. it be read. ' The SPEAKER. The Chair will examine the RECORD. 1\Ir. DUNHAM. I demand the reading of both bills. Mr. O'NEILL, of Pennsylvania. Mr. Speaker, when the House bill The SPEAKER. Only one bill is under consideration, which is the was made a special order for the 13th day of :May it was put into the Senate bill with the amendment, in the form of a substitute, proposed House as in Committee of the Whole. In the House bill there is no by the Committee on Commerce. appropriation of money provided for. . In the Senate pill there is an The Clerk proceeded to read the bill and the proposed substitute. appropriation of money provided for, and of course, .under the rules of Mr. REAGAN (before the. reading was concluded) said: I ask the this House, th!lt bill should go to the Committee of the Whole on .the gentleman from lllinois whether he will not consent to have the read­ state of the Union. ing of the bill dispensed with? Mr. REAGAN. That is so, ~Ir. Speaker, unless th.ere was unanimous M:r. DUNHAM. I would like to accommodate the gentleman from consent to put the Senate bill under the sa,me order as the Honse bill. Texas, but I do no see how the House can properly understand the bill, Mr. O'NEILL, of Pennsylvania. But, 1\IIr. Speaker, there was noth­ and be prepared to vote upon it, without b~ving it read. ing like unanimous consent. The Senate bill was reported from the 1\Ir. REAGAN. The gentleman is aware that nobody is listening to Committee on Commerce with the House bill as an amendment. The the reading, and we are simply consuming time uselessly. S~nate bill, howe>er, l'equires an appropriation of money to pay the The SPEAKER pro tempo1'e {Mr. DocKERY). The gentleman from salaries of the commissioners, and that brings it into Committee of the illinois [~Ir. DcNHAl\I] insists.on his objection to dispensing with the Whole. I have no objection to having the bill considered in the Honse reading. as in Committee of the Whole, put I do not want to put it in such a M:r. DUNHAJ\I. I thing the gentleman from Texas ought not to position as that debate will be limited upon this important question, charge that members of the House are _not paying attention to their a question which requires the fullest debate, the Senate having taken dnties. ~ tb1·ee weeks to discuss it. The Clerk resumed and concluded the reading of the bill and the Mr. MORRISON. Oh, yes, and you have had three years. proposed substitute. The SPEAKER. When the House bill was made a special order the Mr. REAGAN. I desire to ask consent of the House to fix a time Senate bill bad not then been passed or reported to the House, and the for the closing of general debate. In order to ascertain the views of House bill not making any appropriation or requiring any appropriation the House, I suggest that by general consent the session of to-day be to be made, was on the House Calendar. The order was then made that extended until 6 o'clock and that general debate on this bill be closed it should be considered in the Honse as in Committee of the Whole on at that time. the state of the Union. Afterward, when the Senate bill was reported Mr. O'NEILL, of Pennsylvania. I hope the gentleman from Texas to the House, the terms of the first order were made, by express pro­ will postpone any effort to fix now a time for closing debate. There Yision to apply to the Senate bill as wellj which the Chair thinks re­ are many absentees to-day-- sults ~ having the Senate bill also considered in the House as in Com- 1\Ir. REAGAN. I think it my duty under the circumstances to have mittee of the 'Whole on the state of the Union. · a time fixed, if possible, for the closing of general debate. If I can get Mr. DUNHAM. I think I raised a point of order on that. unanimous consent I shall be glad; if I can not- The SPEAKER. The gentleman d'id, but be afterward withdrew it. The SPEAKER pro tpmpm·e. The gentleman from Texas submits, The Chair will cause to be read what occurred in reference 1o the mat­ as the Chair understands, two propositions. One is to extend the ses­ ter. sion of the House till 6 o clock this eveuingj the other is to close gen­ The Clerk 1·end as follows: eral debate on the pending bill at that time. Mr. REAGAN. ~lr. Speaker, I ask unanimous consent that Sennte bill No.l;h32, Mr. O'NEILL, of Pennsylvania. I hope the gentleman from Texaa to regulate interstate commerce, now ·on the Calendar of the Committee of the 'Vhole House on the state of the Union, having been reported back from the will withhold the proposition to close debate until a later hour to-day. Committee on Commerce, be considered also onder the special order when the 1\IIr. REAGAN. If the proposition I have already suggested be not llouse bill w regulate interstate commerce shall be called up. acceptable, I would suggest as an alternative proposition that the House Mr. SPRDIGER. The request of the gentleman is that the Senate bill be also in- cluded in that order? take a recess from 5 o'clock this evening until 8 o'clock, the evening Mr. REAGAN. Yes, sir. session -~o terminate at 11 o'clock, and general debate to b~ closed at 1\Ir, DUNHAM. What is tll!lt bill? that time. My object is that we close general debate to-day. 'l' he SPEAKER. It is the bill (S.1532) to regulate commerce. 1\lr. DUNHAM. But it is not upon the same Calendar. • Severall\iEmJERS. That is right. The SPEAKER. No; hecause the Senate bill proposes a. commission, and is on :Mr. ST~UBLE. I hope that suggestion will be concurred in. the Calenda1· of the Committee of the Whole on the state of the Union; but the Mr. O'NEILL, of Pennsylvania. The objection to that proposition fact ~hat they are on different Calendars makes no difference. . ~Jr. DUNHAM. 'Ve have not both of those bills here, as I understand 1t. is that it is utterly impossible to get a large number of members here The SPEAKER. They are here. at night to listen to a debate; and this is too practical a subject to be 7278 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSEi JULY 21, discussed to empty seats. I do notwish to delaythefinal action of the to act in some sensible way. If everybody does as the gentleman from House upon this bill; but I do protest that this isnot a proper time to California seems to understand there is no necessity for him indulging :fix a limit to the debate; and I hope the House will not compel us to in language. come here ata night session to speak uponsoimportant and practical a Mr. ROWELL. There are two vital questions before us. a subject to vacant seats. ~Ir. REED, of Maine. It is too serious business to be stampeded in Mr. STRUBLE. The seats are practically vacant now. this way. Mr. O'NEILL, of Pennsylvania. Not as they will be to-night. llr. ROWELL. They differ as vitally as two questions can. Mr. BROWNE, of Indiana. 1\Ir. Speaker, we have been discussing Mr. REAGAN. If gentlemen will consent to extend the session un­ this interstate commerce question for the last ten years. til 6 o'clock so that debate may run on until then I will withdraw my Several !tiE IBERS. That is true. demand. Mr. BROWNE, of Indiana. ·It se.ems to me gentlemen here gener­ Mr. O'NEILL, of Pennsylvania. If the chairman of the committee ally are in a condition to vote on this question; and we can expedite will permit me to say a word in behalf of the minority of the Com­ the consideration of this measure very much by having no general de­ mittee on Commerce, I will state to the House there was au under­ bate at all. standing acquiesced in by the chairman of the committee himself that Many MEMBERS. That is right. opportunity should be given to debate this bill whenever it came up. Mr. WEAVER, of Iowa. That suits me. The gentleman knows it, and I do not think it fair for him now to come Mr. BROWNE, of Indiana. If we intend business, let us get at it. into the House and ask that we shall proceed to vote without a.ny de­ Mr. WEAVER, of Iowa. I second the gentleman's proposition. bate whatever. I grant we may be near the end of the session, but The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman from Texas asks unani­ this is an important matter of legislation, and from my standpoint as mous consent that the House take a recess at.S o'clock this afternoon well as from his I desire faith shall be kept, and we may be permitted to unti18 o'clock, the evening session to continue untilll o'clock, and to be heard on one side and the other on the vital and important questions be for general debate only. [Cries of "Vote!" "Vote!''] Is there involved in this matter. objection? · 1\Ir. ANDERSON, of Ka.nsas. The House has some rights, too. Mr. TOWNSHEND. I object to having the whole day and evening Mr. REAGAN. I offered the proposition to extend the session until devot.ed to general debate on this bill. Everybody understands it, and 6 o'clock, or to take a recess from 5 until 8 and continue untilll for we ought to have action on it promptly. general debate only. Mr~ BROWNE, of. Indiana. The gentleman from Texas c.an not get 1\Ir. O'NEILl... , of Pennsylvania, rose. unanimous consent for anything in connection with this bill. What­ Mr. REAGAN. The~entleman from Pennsylvania will not hear me. ever rights he has in this matter, I hope he will assert them, without I ask unanimous consent to extend the session until 6 o'clock this even­ asking unanimous consent. ing, or, if that is not acceptable, to extend the debate until 5 o'clock, Mr. O'NEILL, of Pennsylvania. I want to assert the rights of the and then to take a recess until 8 o'clock this evening to continue the Committee on Commerce. There are :fifteen.members of that commit­ general debate untilll o'clock. If gentlemen will accept either prop­ tee; and it was the understanding in the committee that most of the osition I will renew it. members should be beard on this bill. M:r. O'NEILL, of Pennyslvauia. Why, I will say to the gentleman The SPEAKER pro tempore. Is there objection to the 1·equestofthe from Texas that there are various members ab ent-- gentleman from Texas·? Mr. DOOK:ERY. Well, they should be here. . Mr. DUNHAM:. I object until I know what it is. Mr. O'NE[LL, of Pennsylvania. Who are absent on important busi­ The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman from Texas [Mr. RE ~<\. ­ ness and by consent of the House, and who desire to be heard on this GAN] bas the floor. bill. One of them I will name, the gentleman from Georgia, :Mr. Mr. DUNHAM:. What is his proposition? H.A..l\IMOND. The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentlemanfrom Texas [Mr. REA­ 1\Ir. RY ~~- We~ the House does no·t propose to wait for anybody GA..t.V] proposes that at 5 o'clock the House shall take a recess until 8 who is absent. If gentlemen are not here it is not the fault of the o'clock, and continue in session from 8 untilll o'clock for general de­ Honse. · bate only. The SPEAKER (having resumed the chair). What is the proposi­ Mr. DUNHAM. I object. tion of the gentleman from Texas? Mr. TOWNSHEND. I hope the gentleman from Texas will close Mr. REAGAN. I have made an alternative proposition to extend debate altogether and let us vote on the bill. [Cnes of "Vote!"] the session of the Honse this evening until.() o'clock and close general Mr. REAGAN. Is there any Q.bjection to the proposition? d~bate at that time. The other, if this was not accepted, was to take Mr. O'NEILL, of Pennsylvania. I object. a recess at 5 o'clock, to meet again at 8 o'clock to-night, the general The SPE;t.KER. pro tempore. Objection having been made, the gen­ debate to close on this bill at 11 o'clock this evening. tleman from Texas is recognized-and will proceed. Mr. BRUl\1.1\I. And no vote to be taken to-day? Mr. REAGAN. Mr. Speaker, it was not my wish to close this dis­ Ur. REAGAN. I will submit the latter proposition again to the cussion without permitting gentlemen to be heard on both sides. There House-that the general debate be extended to 5 o'clo*, at which are two bills before the House, and perhaps there should be some ex­ hour we take a recess, to meet again at B o'clock, with the understand­ planation as to the character of those measures. [Cries of "Vote!"] ing that the general debate is to close -at 11 o'clock to-night. But if it be the wish of the House to vote now on these two proposi­ Air. O'NEILL, of Pennsylvania. I am just informed by the gentle­ tions, of con rse I will not stand in the way of that being done. [Cries man from Georgia [Mr. BLOUNT] that Mr. HAl\fMOND does not expect of "Vote!"] to return to the House this session. I did not know that fact when I Mr. WEAVER, of Iowa. Let us vote now; it will not take ten min- made the sta.tement a moment ago, because before he went away he ex­ utes to settle the question. , pressed to me his desire to discuss this .bill in fa\'or of its passage. Mr. REAGAN. I will act in obedience to what seems to be the gen­ The S~EAKER. The Chair will submit the request of the gentle­ eral request of members. Before doing so, however, I will ask by unan­ man from Texas. The first is that unanimous consent be given to ex­ imous consent that members generally may have le.:we to print remarks tend the session of the House to-day until 6 o'clock and that general on this question. • debate be closed at that hour. Is there objection? There was no objection, and it was so-ordered. Mr. HENLEY. I object. Mr. REAGAN. 1 will take the sense of the House to close debate Mr. DUNHAM. Reserving the-right to object-­ and vote on the bill. The SPEAKER. Objection has already been made. l'.Ir. TOWNSHEND. That is what we want. The. gentleman from Texas now asks unanimous oon ent that the The SPEAKER pm tempore. There is so much confusion in the Hall House take a recess at 5 o'clock to-day until 8 o'clock, the evening ses­ that the Chair is unable to hear the g-entleman from Texas. The pub­ sion to be devoted exclusively to debate on this bill, which shall close lic business will be suspended until we have order on the floor. at 11 o'clock to-night. Several MEMBERS. Call for the previous question. 1\Ir. DUNHAM. I object to that. Mr. REAGAN. I demand the previous question on the adoption of Mr. HENLEY. I will object unless it assumes this modification: the House substitute for the Senate bill. that all debate, not only the general debate but debate under the :fivo Mr. DUNIIAl\I rose. . minute-rule as well, be closed at that time. l\Ir. TOWNSHEND. That is not debatable. Mr. DUNHAM. . I object in either event. Mr. REED, of Maine. This bill ha.s to be read under the five-minute The SPEAKER. Objection is made. rule. Mr. HENLEY. I call the attention of the gentleman from Texas Mr. TOWNSHEND. We are in the House and not in the com­ now to this fact, that unless be gets his bill through to-day the prob­ mittee. abilities are that he will not get it through at all, for to-morrow, The SPEAKER pro tempore. The bill is being considered in the under the order of the House made to-day, the naval construction bill House as in the Committee of the Whole under an order of the House. comes up. The fate of his bill depends, in my judgment, on action Mr. REED, of Maine. E>en in that case it has to be read for amend­ to-day. ment under the five-minute rule. ·we ean not have business of this The SPEAKER. There is nothing before the House. . kind stampeded simply because those having it in charge have not at­ Mr. REAGAN: I move that all general debate be closed on this bill tended to it during the eight months of the session. Let us undertake at 5 o'clock. 1886. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 7279

Ur. TOWNSHEND. I move to amend that by making it 4 o'clock. Mr. O'NEILL, of Pennsylvania. I do not decline to accept the :Many MEMBERS. Say 3 o'clock. ti.ri:le. I decline it for general debate. I desire to say to this House Mr. DINGLEY. I rise to a question of order. that they should have a practical exposition of these two bills-- The SPEAKER. The gentleman will state it. lli. REAGAN. I call for the regular order, Mr. Speaker. I renew Mr. DINGLEY. The general debate not having been entered upon my motion that general debate be closed at 5 o'clock to-day, and upon on this bill it is not in order to move to close it. . that I ask the previou.s question. Mr. WELLBORN. But there has been general debate. Mr. TOWNSHEND. I ask my friend from Texas to make it 4 The SPEAKER. Of course if there bas been no general debate the o'clock instead of 5. . motion would not be in order. · The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Texas [Mr. REAGAN] moves Mr. REAGAN. · There has not been much, but I suppose I spoke that general debate upon this bill close at 5 o'clock this afternoon. two or three minutes upon it. Mr. TOWNSHEND. I move to amend by making it 4 o'clock. Mr. DOCKERY. I do not think that there has been any. Mr. DUNHAM. I move to lay that motion on the table. The SPEAKER. The record will show. The present occupant of The SPEAKER. The motion "can not be laid on the table. It is not the chair supposes that the gentleiPan from Texas, before the bill was debatable, and it is one of those motions which can not be disposed of read at all, took the floor and proceeded to state the situation in regard in that way. The gentleman from Texas moves that all general debate to the bill, that is, when it came to the House and what order had upon this bill be closed at 5 o'clock p. m.·to-day; to which the gentle­ been made in reference to it; but the Chair remembers no general de-· man from illinois [Mr. TOWNSHEND] moves an amendment, that all bate. general debate upon the bill close at 4 o'clock p. m.; ::nd upon these 1\fr. WELLBORN. My colleague had actually begun his speech questions the gentleman from Texas [Mr. REAGAN] demands the pre­ when it was interrupted by the objection of the gentleman from Tili­ vious question. nois [ Mr. DUNH.A.M], who insisted on the reading of the bill. The previous question was ordered. Tile SPEAKER. The Chair thinks the gentleman was merely stating The SPEAKER. The question now is upon the amendment of the the situation ofthe bill. gentleman from illinois [Mr. TOWNSHEND] that general debate close Mr. wELLBORN. I do not know what progress he had made, but at 4 o'clock. he was actually addressing the House upon the bill. · Mr. BURROWS. Mr. Speaker, I desire to inquire whether the gen­ The SPEAKER. The Chair remembers the gentlemari. had the floor tleman from Tilinois means 4 o'clock this afternoon. and was proceeding in the manner suggested to explain the situation of The SPEAKER. Four o'clock this afternoon. the bill. Mr. BURROWS. Why, if the gentleman from Texas [Mr. REAGAN] Mr. REED, of Maine. Why can not the gentleman make his obser- occupies his hour, as he probably will, that will leave but half an hour vations now? ' · for other gentlemen. Mr. O'NEILL, of Pennsylvania. The bill had not been read then. The question was taken on the amendment of Mr. TOWNSHEND, and The SPEAKER. The bill had not been read when the gentleman the Speaker declared that the ayes seemed to have it. from Texas took the floor, but it was read afterward. Mr. DUNHAM. I ask for a division. Mr. REAGAN. lli. Speaker, I desire to call the p.ttention of the The House divided; and there were-ayes 88, noes 42. House to the question before it at this time. The Senate bill which Mr. DUNHAM. No quorum. .. has been read was referred to the Committee on Commerce. The com­ The SPEAKER. The point being madetllatno quorum has voted, mittee reported that bill back with the recommendation to strike out the Chair will appoint the gentleman from Illinois, ]'}fr. DUNHAM, and all after the enacting clause and substitu~ the provisions of the House the gentleman from Illinois, l\1r. TOWNSHEND, to act as tellers. bill for it. It is right for me to say in reference to the main features TheHouseagaindivided; and thetellersreported-ayes 106, noes 23. of difference between the two bills that in three different Congresses, Mr. TOWNSHEND. Mr. Speaker, in order to compromise this mat­ with the issue directly made, the House has decided in favor of the ter, I am willing to withdraw my amendment and let the general de­ provisions of the House bill by large majorities upo~ a yea-and-nay bate be closed at 5 o'clock. · vote. · The SPEAKER. That is for the House to determine. Mr. O'NEILL, of Pennsylvania. I ask the gentleman from Texas Mr. REAGAN. And with that let it be understood that the time is to yield to me a few minutes before he gets through. · to be equally divided between the friends and the opponents of the Mr. REAGAN. In a moment. · measure. It was my belief and hope, sir, that we would be able to take action Mr. DUNHAM. I object. upon the bill at a much earlier day. After the House bill was in a Mr. ANDERSO~, of Kansas. I ask for the yeas and nays. position to take it up the Senate bill came to the House; and I think l\fr. HISCOCK. Has not the gentleman from Illinois a right to with­ it is right I should make this explanation in view of some remarks that draw his motion? have been made. It would then have been idle to take up the House bill The SPEAKER. Certainly; but the gentleman from illinois [Mr. without reference to the other. The committee, therefore, as they be­ DUNHAM] objects to the proposed understanding. lieved proper, took up the Senate bill referred to them and a~ted upon Mr. HISCOCK. But the gentleman from Illinois (Mr. TOWNSHEND] it. It was some time after the Senate bill was reported back by the can withdraw his motion. committee and placed upon the Calendar before we got this bill placed The SPEAKER. That he bas a right to do. by order of the House- for consideration along with the House b-ill. Mr. TOWNSHEND. Then, Mr. Speaker, in deference to the desires From the time that order was obtained the House has been occupied of several gentlemen around me, I withdraw my amendment. continuously with appropriation bills and revenue bills which had pre­ The SPEAKER. The amendment being withdrawn, the question cedence, and there has been no time since this bill has been in a condi­ is on the motion of the gentleman from Texas [Mr. REAGAN] that tion to be called up when it has been possible to call it up. Gentle­ general debate close at 5 o'clock. men may rest assured that if there had been any such time it would The question was taken; and the Speaker declared that the ayes seemed have been called up, for I have been in my place all the time, intend­ to have it. ing all the time to call it up whenever it was in order. I feel it due Mr. DUNHAM. I ask for a division. to the committee that I should make this statement, in view of the The House divided; and there were-ayes 114, noes 1. remarks made here this morning implying that the bill might have Mr. DUNHAM. No quorum has voted. been considered at an early day in the session if sufficient vigilance bad Mr. ANDERSON, of Kansas. I demand the yeas and nays. been exercised. The yeas and nays were ordered. I now yield five minutes to the gentleman from Pennsylvania [Mr. The question was taken; and it was decided in the affirmative-yeas 0 NEILL}. 204, nays 24, not voting 94; as follows: ]'}fr. O'NEILL, of Pennsylvania. Mr. Speaker, I do not propose to takeany:five minutes for general debate upon this bill, because I want YEAB-204. the chairman of the committee, the gentleman from Texas, to comply Allen, C. H. · Burleigh, Croxton, Ford, Allen, J. M. Burnes, Culberson, Forney, with his agreement, to stand by his vote in the committee and to stand' Anderson, J. A. Burrows, Curtin, Frederick, by the committee. I must say I have never seen such an instance as the Ballentine, Bynum, Cutcheon, Fuller, gentleman presents of-- Barnes, · Cabell, Davidson, A. C. Funston, Barry, Caldwell. Davidson, R. H. M. Gallinger, :Mr. TOWNSHEND. I call the gentleman to order. The gentleman Bayne, Campbell, Felix Davis, Gay, declines to take the time yielded to him by the gentleman from Texas. Belmont, Campbell, J. M. Dingley, Geddes, Mr. TAULBEE. · I rise to a parliamentary inquiry. . Bennett, Candler, Dockery, Glass, Blanchard, Cannon, Dunn, Glover; The SPEAKER. The gentleman will state it. · Blount, · Carleton, Eden, Goff, Mr. TAULBEE. Docommitteesgoverngeneraldebatein the House, Bound, Catchings, Eldredge, Green,R.S. or does that rest with the House? · Boyle, Clardy, Ely, Green, "\V. J. Brady, Clements, Ermentrout, Grout. 1\fr. O'N:EILL, of Pennnsylvania. 1 will answer that. The com­ Breckinridge, C. R. ·Collins, Evans, Guenther, mittees always arrange about the debate, and the gentleman ought to Breckinridge,WOP .Compton, Everhart, Hale, know it. Browne, T. M. Conger, Farquluu-, Hall, Brown, W. W. Cooper, Findlay, Halsell, The SPEAKER. The Chair desires to state to the gentleman from Brumm, Cox, Fisher, Hanis, Pennsylvania [Mr. O'NEILL] that ifhe declines to accept the time-- Bunnell, Crisp, Fleeger, Hat-ch, 7280 CO~GRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. JULY 21,

Hayden, . J,ittJe, Parker, Storm, If there be no objection that change will be made. Heard, J .. ore, Hemphill, Lowry, Payne,Peel, Swinburne,Struble, There was no objection, and it was ordered accordingly. Henderson,D. B. Lyman, Perkins, Swope, INTERSTATE CO::U:MERCE. Henderson,J.S. :Martin, P '.ra.rsney, Henderson, T.J. Matson, p:f~~. Taulbee. The HQu.se resumed the considerat:onofthe bill (S. 1532) to regulate Henley, :Maybury, Pettibone, Taylor, J.l\I. commerce. Hepburn, 1\Iew\doo, Pidcock, Taylor,Zach. l\Ir. REA.GAN. 1\Ir. Speaker, I shall limit what I have to say on Hermann, 1\icComas, Pindar, Thomas,O.B. f h 1 din d''"' b t th t Hill, 1\fcCreary, Pirce, Tillman,• this question to a stn.tement o t e ea g 1uerences e ween e wo Hit.t, McKenna, Price, Townshend, bills now before the House for consideration. Holman, McKililey, Holmes, Mcl'llillin, ~an, i~!~r. The Senate bill differs from the House bill in that its provisions re- Hopkins, l\lcRae, Romeis, VanEaton, late to the transportation of passengers as well as freights, and trans- Hudd, 1\Ierriman, Ryan, Viele, portation by water as well as by land. Hutton, Millard, Irion, 1\I iJiik en, Sadler, ~~~~field, The Hou e bill relates only to the transportation of freight ancl on Johnston, J. T. :Mills, ~~~~~~~; Warner, A. J. railroads. Johnston,1.'. D. Mofl'at, Shaw, Warner, William The first section of the Honse hill should be amended by ::ultling to Jones,J.H. 1\:lorgan, Jones,J.T. Morrill, Singleton, Weaver,A.J. it lines 24, 25, 26, 27 of the first section of the Senate bill. Kleiner, :i'r[orrison, ~~~lr;:,r, ~~:~;,r , J. B. The second section of the Senate hill di1l:'ers fl'Om the House hill in Laffoon, :Morrow, Snyder, Wellborn, providing a measure of damages for its violation, and which i inade- J.. a Follette, 1\Iullt-r, Laird, Murphy, ~f~1!~~kcr, ~;~U~;t"J;; quate, by saying that a person charged a higher l"ate than is charged to · J.andes, Neal, Stephenson, Wilkins, any other person may collect the difference between such higher rate Lanham, Negley, Stewart, Charles Willis, :md the lowest rate charged upon like shipments during the same period. Lawler, Nelson, 1 LeFevre, Oates, ~o~:r~ )1. ~;~~~~~. This is no improvement on the common-lawremedywhich may now · Lehlbach, O'Ferrnll, stone:w.i., Ky. Wolford, be invoked for a like purpose. The common law furnishes no practica- Lindsley, Osborne, Stone,W.J.,l\Io. Worthington. ble remedy for the abuses of power and the unlawful conduct of the N.\.YS-24. .managers of railroads. Claimants for small sums as damages can not Adams, G. E. IT ires, Long, Scott, asn. generalruleafford the expense of litigation toestablish their claims, Boutelle, Hiscock, O'Neill, Charles Spooner, w bile the railroad corporat.ions as a rule protract such litigation to such Donham, Jackson, Grosvenor, James, P01'Numeillb,' J. J. Strait,Thompson, an extent as to w&'l.r on t the claimants and defea.t the ends of justice. ·Hewitt, Ketcham, Reed, '1'. B. West, Their power to tax the commerce of the country at will enables them Iliestand, Libbey, Rowell, Woodbum. to supply the revenues necessary to employ the ablest legal talent of NOT VO'l'ING-:>.J. the country to represent them, and also to meet court costs; for these Adams, J. J. Daniel, Louttit, Sayers, purposes the citizen must usc his private means. This is known as a Aiken, Dargan, Lovering, Seney, matter of common .observation to all of us, and if we would protect tpe Anderson, C.l\I. Davenport, Mahoney, Sessions, public against such wrongs we must furnish a better remedy than the Arnot, Dawson, Markham, Spriggs, d . . b bl f th S t ' Atkinson, Dibble, l\Iiller, . pringer, common law. This is a m1tted m ·t e a ereporto e ena e scorn- Baker, Dorsey, Mitchell, Steele, mitlee. . Barbour, Dougherty, ~eece, Stewart, J. W. The House bill provides for the recovery of full damages aml reqnb:es Barksdale,Beach, Ellsberry,Dowdney, Norwood,O'Donnell, ~~Y~~~.E. B. the court in each case of recovery to tax the corporation with a reason- Bingham, Felton, O'Hara, Taylor, I. H. able fee for the plaintiff's counsel or attorney fees. This is an improve- Bland, Foran, Outhwaite, Thomas, J. R. ment of the common-law remedy in that, in case of recovery, it requires :;!:;g., gi~:~; ~~tace ~~s~'n. if~~~orton, the defendant to pay the plaintiff's reasonable attorney's fees. The Brown, C. E. Gilfillan, Phelps, VanSchaick, remedy should go further and t·equire the payment of double or treble Buchanan, Hammond, Randa;Jl, Wadsworth, damages, and I think I shall offer an amendment for .that purpose. Be- Buck, Hanback, Ranney, 'Vait, ~ h h b a· · · t' Butterworth, Harmer, Reid,J. ,V, 'Vallacc, sides this, the railway corporations ·ave t e power y 1scnmma tons Campbell, J. E. Haynes, Reese, Ward, J. H. and.unfriendly delays to punish any of their patrons who may attempt Co.mpbell, T. J. Herbert, Richardson, Ward, T. B. by litigation or otherwise to prevent their discriminations and injustice. g~~b~ll, . ~~~~rd, ~i':'tson, ~iti~~:· Section 4 of the Senate's bill, page 4, contains the provision that "no ComstocK., Johnson, F. A. Rockwell, Wise. such common carrier shall be required to give the use of its terminal Cowles, Kelley, Rogers, facilities to any other carrier engaged in like business." Crain, King, Sawyer, This is a clear attempt at Congressional regulation of the corporate So the motion to close general debate on the pending bill at 5 o'clock riahts and franchises of the railroad corporations, and is not within the p. m. to-day was agreed to. p;wersofthe constitutional provisions which authorizes Congress to reg- Mr. MILLS. I desire to announce that my colleague [Ur. SAYERS] ulate commerce among the States. It is a power which clearly be- ic; absent on a conference committee. longs to the States as to roads not situafed in the Territories and in the The following additional pairs were announced: District of Columbia. It is also evidently put in the bill to subserve :Mr. LoVERING with Mr. KELLEY, for the remainder of the day. some private purpose and not for the public goo~. A note to page 82 Mr. ADAMS, of New York, with Ur. HANBACK, for the remainder ofHudson's ''Railways and the Republic" shows how the Standard of the day. Oil Company got possession of the terminal facilities for handling oil The SPEAKER. Some requests for leave of absence which should in Philadelphia and Baltimore. And on this subject see also New have been presented to the House this morning were at that time mis- York investigating committee's report, page 44. This clause may have laid. If there be no objection the Chair will now lay them before the for its object to invoke the authority of Congress to preserve to it the House, before announcing the result of the vote just taken. advantages it then gained. And there may be othor like cases. But There wasno objection; and, byunanimous consent, leave of absence as the enactment of this clause would be in violation of the Constitu- was granted as follows: tion it could afford them no protection in their wrongQ.oing, and would To Mr. BRAGG, for the remainder of the session, on account of im- not avail to establish or perpetuate monopolies. portant business. The fourth section of the Senate bill, the one which deals w.ith the To M:r. WEST, for one week, on account of important business. question of the long and short haul, is simply meaningless. To the To Mr. SENEY, until Monday next. · casual reader it would seem as if it men.nt to prohibit charging more To Mr. ANDERSON, of Ohio, indefinitely. for the carriage of a like amount and kind of freight for a shorter than To :Mr. BARNES, indefinitely, on account of important business. for a longer distance, but it does not do this. Its language is: To Mr. REID, North Carolina, until Monday next. · That it shall be unlawful for any common canier subject to the provi ions of The result of the vote was announced as above stated. this act to charge or receive any greater compensation in the aggrt-gate for the 1t!r. REA.GAN. There are now two hours and ten minutes remain- transportationoffreightandpassengerso1·oflikekindofpropertyunder ubsta.n- tially similar circumstances and conditions for a shorter than for a longer di - ing under the order of the House fior general d e b ate. I suggest that tance over the same line in the same direction and from the same original point the time be equally divided between the friends and the opponents of . of departure or to the same point of arrival. the bill; and I suggest that the time in opposition be under the control It does not define or designate the original point of departru·e. Where of the gentleman from Pennsylvanin. [Mr. O'NEILL]. is the original point of departure on any railroad? Is not every depot SAINT AUGU TTITE AND LAZARETTO CREEKS, GEORGIA. from which freight is sent an original point of departure forthatfreight? The SPEAKER. Before the gentleman from T.exas proceeds the This section can only mean that one person can not be charged more Chair desires to state that in a bill passed last evening-the bill (H. R. than :mother for a like amount and kind of service, and is but are­ 8967) to authorize the building of railroad bridges across Saint Augus­ enactment of other provisions of the bilL It does not prohibit cbnrg­ tine and Lazaretto Creeks, in the State of Georgia, there was a typograph­ in~ more for a short than for a long haul. ical error. In the bill as passed the language read: The fourth section of the House bill is plain and specific on this sub- Nothing in this act shall be so constructed llS a repeal or modify, &c. ject. It is as follows: . SBC. 4. That it shall be u·nlawful for any person or persons engaged in the It should r~ad: transportation of property as provided in the fll'st section of tl~is act to chal'ge Nothing in this act shall be so construed n to repeal or modify, &c. or receive any greater compensation for a similar amount and ktnd of property, 1886. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 7281 for carrying, receiving, storing, forwarding, or handling the sam1e, for a short.er lie so far as may in the judgment of the commission be deemecl prac~ than for a. longer distance, which includes the shorter distance, on any one rail­ road; and the road of a corporation shall include all the road in use by such ticable, and that sa.id commission shall from time to time prescribe the corporation, whether owned or operated by it under a contract, agreement, or measure of publicity which shall be given. This is a serious defect in ease by such corporation. this bill. What just reason can be offt~red why the rates of transporta~ But if this part of the Senate's bill had been allowed to have that tion charges shall not in all cases be made public it is difficult to con~ effect, the closing part of the section would have substantially nullified ceive. Their publicity, a.s provided for in the House bill, is the one it, as it provides that the commission which the bill cxen.tes may ex­ essential means of protecting shippers against unjust discriminations empt the railroad companies from its operation. And this section also by means of rebates ox other ·secret means of discrimination. provides that w ben such exemptions are made by the commission, until These companies serve the public ior hire, and are under legal obliga­ changed by the commission or by law they shall have the same force tions as common carriers to serve them equally and impartially. Se~ and effect as though they had been specified in the section. This is an crecy in rates is a badge of fraud in such cases, as it is by means of this attempt to delegate the authority of Congress to the railroad commis­ secrecy that they are enabled to wrong some of their patrons while they sion to make law. I do not understand that the power to legislate benefit others, to impoverish some while they enrich others by their can be so delegated. unjust discriminations. The object of this important provision is to protect the people at non­ And it is by these secret rates that they assert a sort of moral, men­ competitive points from paying for the carriage of the freight shipped tal, and commercial despotism over all shippers, aud make each mer­ from competitive points. It was found difficult to provide a rule which chant or shipper suspect all others of getting special and favored rates, would be entirely equitable. It would not be right to charge the same and drives them to seek by unmanly and dishonorable means to secure mte pP.r mile for a long as for a short distance; as the loading, unload­ such special favors for themselves and advantages over their neighbors. ing, preparation of trains, and handling would be the same in both cases. Can anything more humiliating _and demoralizing be conceived than In adopting the provision that no more shall be charged for a shorter this practice of secret frauds by transportation companies, ~onstantly than for a longer distance, which includes the shorter, we diu discrimi­ inviting so large a part of the people to seek to make themselves parties nate in favor of the long haul to the extent of providing that no more to fraud of this l...rind? No government and no people ought to submit should be charged for the shorter than for the longer distance, thus leav­ to such a condition of things. ing the provision so that if the transportation companies find it nooessary The Senate bill provides that no advance in rates shall be made ex­ they may charge ~ much for the short as for the long haul. This rule cept after ten days' public notice, while the House bill provides that recognizes the territorial extent of the country and the character of ship- n9 advance in -rates shall be made upon less than five days' public no­ ments to be made. _ tice. T!ris shorter notice has been provided for in the House bill to It enables the transportation companies to carry grain and flour and meet the wishes of the railroad companies, as it was urged by them to meats from the productive fields of theWest as cheaply as from Illinois, prevent attempts of these roads to take advantage of each other by re­ Indiana, Ohio, West Virginia, or from the western parts of Pennsyl­ ducing rat€s and retaining "the advantages of the reduced mtes for too vania or New York to the seaboard. long a time. Justice and fair dealing could surely require no more. And in pre­ I think it would be well to amend the House bill by inserting at the venting charging more for the short than for the long haul it conforms end of section 5 tha1i part of section 5 of the Senate bill, from line 50 to to the rule adopted in the State constitutionsofPennsylvania,-Missouri, line 77inclusive; striking out the reference to commissioners, in lines Arkansas, and California and by the statute laws of Massachusetts and 60 and 61, arid inserting in lieu thereof the words •' and be sued out other States. by the district attorney of the United States at the relation of any party Besides the injustice and the ruinous consequences to s~ppers of interested;" and by striking out, in line 63, the word "commission~ charging more for a short than for a long haul, the power to do so enables ers '? and i~erting in lieu thereof the word '' parties.'' the transportation companies to control the manufacturing interests of Another reason for the publication of freight rates, which should be the country and to drive them from non-competitive points and from the controlling, is that in questions before the courts involving the reason­ rural parts of the countl:y, where living is cheapu a'ld health better, to ableness of such charges, when the rates are not authoritatively pub­ th~ gr.eat commercia~ centers, where there iscompetiti 'lU in freight rates. lished it is not difficult for railroad experts in the interest of the com­ ThiS IS a power which no government of a free people would dare to panies to defeat just demands for damages by confusing juries with exercise, and which no wisely administered governu.ent would think artful statements of what they term all the elements which enter into of exercising, and yet tbe railroad companiesdemand and insist on the the questions as to the reasonableness of rates. While if they are l'e­ right to exercise this vast and dangerous power. And under it they are quired to post up their schedules of rates they can not deny that those impoverishing some cities, t{)wns, and communities, without any fault posted up are reasonable, nor escape the penalty of charging more or of theirs, and enriching others having no other merit to this favor than less than their schedule mtes. These schedules of rates would not the arbitrary power of the transportation companies. only advise the _people what they would have to.pay but they would Section 5 of the House bill requires that those engaged in carrying furnish the evidence of what reasonable rates are. The first section of property, as provided in the first section of the bill, shall adopt and the House bill requires that all rates shall be reasonable. The making keep posted up schedules en their respective roads, as described in sec­ of an unreasonable schedule of rates would subject them to the penal­ tion 4, which shall plainly state: ties prescribed by the bill. These two sections of the bill would greatly First. The different kinds and classes of property t<> be carried. protect the people against improper charges. · Second. The different places between which it shall be carried. The second section of the House bill provides, among o~her things, that Third. The rates of freight and prices of carriage between such places "it shall not be lawful for any person or persons carryingproperty, as and for all services connected with the receiving, delivery, loading, un­ aforesaid, to enter into any contract, agreement, or combination for the loading, storing, and handling the same. And the accounts for such pooling of freights, or to pool the freights of different and competing service shall show what part of the charges are for transportationj and railroads, o.r to divide between them the aggregate or net proceeds of what part is for loading, unloading, and other terminal facilities. the earnings of such railroads, or any portion of them, and in case of This last provision is necessary in order to prevent excessive charges an agrement for the pooling of freights or earnings, as aforesaid, each fo1· transportation under the name of terminal facilities. It also pro­ day of its continuance shall be deemed a separate oftense." vides for changes of schedules, and that they shall be printed and posted This is a clear, specific provision for the prevention of pooling. up for public inspection at least five days before they are to go into effect. The nineteenth section of the Senate bill is as follows: It also pro1"ides that after thirty days from the passage of the act it The said commission shall specifically inquire into the methods of railroad shall be unlawful to charge more or less than shall be specified in these management or combination known as pooling, and shall report to Congress schedu1es. what, if any, legislation is advisable or expedient upoJ:.l that subject·. A new provision was added to this section by the committee which The House bill provides for a-ction. The Senate bill proposes inquiry. provides that any railroad receiving freight for shipment in the United Pooling by railroad is prohibited by the constitution of the States of States to be carried through a foreign country to some other point in Arkansas, .Michigan, Missouri, Nebraska, Pennsylvania, and Ohio. It the United States, the company receiving such freight shall keep posted is prohibited by the laws oi other States. Pooling is a violation of the in a conspicious place at the depot where such freight is received for common law, because it is a; restraint upon the freedom of trade and a shipment a schedule giving the through rates to all points of the United conspiracy against the public welfare. And this doctrine is maintained States beyond the foreign territory, or be subject to the penalties pre­ in the following American cases: 8 1\fass., 223; 1 Pickering, 450; 35 scribed in the bill. And any freight shipped through foreign territory Pickering, 188; 19 Pickering, 51; 35 Ohio State Reports, 672; 68 Penn- and reshipped into the United States without a compliance with this sylvania State,173; 5 Denio, 434; 4 Denio, 349. · provision will be subject to customs duties, as if of foreign production. Judge Gibson, in the case of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania This provision was inserted to prevent the unfair competition of the against Carlisle (Brightly, 40), says: _ roads through Canadian territory. I take it that a combination is criminal whenever the act has a necessary tend­ ency to prejudice the public or to oppress individuals by unjustly subjecting Section 5 of the Sen;1te's bill does not require the accounts of the them to the power of confederates. '·' The object of these combinat-ions is to common carriers to show what part of their charges is for transporta­ raise the rate of freight, nnd the means adopted is to suspend competition and tion and what part is for terminal facilities, and is in this respect de­ place the traffic under the exclusive control of the combination." fective and would fail to protect shippers against improper charges in In the early history of railroad construction the anxiety of the peo­ many cases. It also only 1·equires the schedule mtes to be made pub- ple of this country to secure their construction induced them to grant XVJJ-45G 7282 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. JULY 21, charteTs without much reference to those safeguards necessary for the tered into bet-..een these parties, by which these railroad companies security and welfare of the people. It was understood then, as now, guaranteed to this steamship company that its gross earnings should he that each railroad would have a monopoly of the business of trans­ $110,000 per month ($1,320,000 per annum) on condition that the rail­ portation on it. The peoP.le relied on three means of protection against road companies should have the right to fix the freight rates on the monopoly prices: steamship company's line. This enabled these mih'oad companies to First. On transportation by water and by other OTdinary means of prevent any competition and gave them a complete monopoly of the transportation. transcontinental shipments, except what went by way of Cape Horn. Second. On the ultimate increase of the number of competing rail· .Fifth. T.hat on the lOth of November, 1880, the portion of the South­ roads; and . ern Pacific Railroad situated in Arizona was leased to the Central Pa­ Third. On the exercise of legislative control and regulation. cific llailroad Company. Experience has shown that the first two of these means do not protect Sixth. That on November 17, 1880, the.portion of the Southern Pa­ the public against the unjust exercise of these monopoly powers; and cific Railroad situated in Ne;,w Mexico was leased to the Central Pacific that if not controlled by law they will defeat competition with each Railroad Company. other by pooling combinations. · Seventh. That on the 17th of February, 1885, the Central Pacific The railroad managers recommend a universal pool, or federation of Railroad and its branches was leased to tha Southern Pacific Railroad all the railroads in the country, and its recognition and the enforcement Company for the term of ninety-nine years from the 1st of April, 1885, of its provisions by law. This Congress has no power to do under the for the annual sum ·of $1, 200; 000, thus consolidating these two lines of Constitution. If this could be done it would be the creation of one road and preventing competition. vast and overpowering monopoly out of the many which now exist; and Eighth. That on thelst dayof June, 1885, anagreementwasentered such a course would enable it to control the transportation and com­ into between the Transcontinental Association, composed of the follow­ merce of the country, and soon perhaps to control the legislation of the ing-named railroad companies, namely, the Southern Pacific, including country, and to become the masters of the people and of their liberties. the Central Pacific and i t..s branches; the Atchison, Topeka and Santa Fe; As evidence that there is real danger of this, I will refer briefly to theAtlanticandPacific; the Burlington and Missouri Railroad; the Den­ four notorious pools in this country, which have each exer:cised vast ver and Rio Grande Western; the Northern Pacific; the Oregon Railway power, and inflicted greatinjuryon individuals, on other corporations, and Navigation Company; the Oregon Short Line, and the Union Pacific, and on the whole country. · . which association was represented. by L. G. Cannon, its general agent, 'Ve are informed by Mr. Hudsonin his valuable work entitled "The party ofthe fust part, and the PacificMailSteamship Company, party R..'l.ilways and the Republic" that the live-stock pool, as it existed be­ of the second part. · · fo:re1880, granted a rebate of$16 per car to aprominentlive-stockflrm By this agreement the above-named railroad companies obligated of Chicago, thus giving that firm that much of advantage over other themselves to guarantee that the gross eamin~ of the Pacific ]')Iail shippel'S of live stock, and enriching it and the railr~ad officials who Steamship Company should be $85,000 per month on 1,200 tons of were confederated with it at the expense of othe~ shippers of live stock, freight each way between San Francisco and New York by way of and creating an oppressive and odious monopoly in their hands. Panama, that the steamship company should make two trips per month Second. The standard oil pool and monopoly, to which some years and no more, and that it would not carry any stee~c:re pass_engers; in back the ~rent trunk railroads running into New York and Philadel­ consideration of which it was agreed by the steamship company that phia paid 10,000,000 as rebates in sixteen months, which by the spe­ this tran~ntinental association should, ·through agents appointed by cial advantages it secured from these railroads mercilessly crushed out itself, "have the entire and exclusive control of all through business all competition in the mining, refining, transportation, and sale of pe­ of said steamship company between New York and San Francisco each troleum; and it has obtained such power over the great railroad cor­ way, and that no through freight or passengers shall be taken except porations ns to compel them to be subservient to its will.· This mo­ at prices to be· fixed. by these milroad corporatiQns or by their con­ nopoly and pool is so notorious, the evils it has inflicted on individuals sent." and corporations and on the country are. so great and so well known as Thus it is seen that these railroad companies erected one gigantic to render a. more particular reference to it unnecessary. monopoly by the combination in this contract of nine railroads and 'l'hird. The anthracite coal pool and monopoly is another of those some branch roads and the only steamship company plying between monsterandlawlessc6mbinationswhichdepresseslaboratitswill, limits New York and San Francisco, and in this way provided that there the amount and increases the price of anthracite coal for fuel in the should be no possible competition in freight and passenger charges on great cities and for manufacturing purposes as its own interests may the immense amount of transportation and travel across the continent. dicta.te. I quote again from Hudson on'' Railways and t~e Republic." Thus these great corporations, created by the consent and authority of He says: the people through their legislative agents, instead of being operated It is not necessary to follow out in detail the steps by which the railways es­ in the interest of the people and for their benefit, entered into a monop­ tablished their absolute power in all branches of the coal trade. Enough that olistic conspiracy in order to subject the commerce and travel of the the result is that of the 270,000 acres of anthracite coal lands in Pennsylvania. country to any exaction which their avarice might dictate or their 195,000 are now owned by six railways. One effect of uniting in the same cor­ porations the business of shippers and that of carriers is the enormous inflation greed demand. of their capital. Their aggregate capitalization amounts to $500,000,000, while It appears from the annual report made by J. B. Houston, president the actual cost of the roads and equipment for transportation is $114,000,000. of the Pacific Mail Steamship Company, now before me, and .dated For the purpose of securing a. profit on this stupendous amount. of inflated New York, May 27, 1885, a portion of which I will append to my re­ capital the policy of combination has been carried t~ an unequaled extent. marks, that notice had been given in .March, 1885, by this transconti­ The fourth great PQOl to which I shall refer is that of Central, Union nental association of railroads of the intended abrogation of their guar­ and Southern Pacific and other transcontinental railroads and the Pacific antee to the steamship company, which Mr. Houston says bad existed Mail Steamship Company. for three years, and that a new arrangement had b~en entered into by Honse Executive Document No. 60, fust session Forty-ninth Con­ which these railroad compames guaranteed to this steamship company gress, which I shall append to my remarks, shows: $85,000 per month, $1,200,000 a year, to continue this monopoly. First. That on the 6th of August, 1877; the Union Pacific and Cen­ As illustrative of the methods by which the railroad companies de­ tral Pacific Railroad Compapies entered into an agreement with the-Pa­ feat just competition, establish monopolies; and levy nn1ust tribtltes cific Ma~ Steamship Company, by which they agreed to guarantee to on the commerce of the country, I have before me the printed form of this steaniship company earnings to the amount of $27,000 per month a ~ntract which was to be executed between the Union Pacific, the on their business from San Francisco to New York, and $42,000 per Atchison, Topeka and Santa. Fe, the Missouri Pacific, and the Galves­ month on their business from New York to San Francisco (malring ton, Harrisburg and San Antonio Railway Companies, and such per- $996,000 per annum), upon the condition that these railroad companies sons as they might carry merchandise for. · should have the privilege of fixing the rates of transportation on the By this agreement shippers were required to bind themselves, in steamship lines. order to avoid excessive rates, to ship all their merchandise during the Second. That on the 17th of January, ~879, a similar contract was · term of the contract, which, it is understood, was not to be for a less made between these same parties by which a like sum of $996,000 was time than one year, by the above-named roads; and the shjppers were guaranteed by the railroad companies to the steamship company as required to bind themselves, in substance, that if they should ship any gross freight earil.ings, and the railroad compames also guaranteed to part of their goods by any other route it was to be held as prima facie the steamship company $5 on each passenger carried Qn tickets pur­ evidence of default on their part, and it was then to be optional with chased at points east of Ogdensburg, Suspension Bridge, Pittsburgh, and those railroads whether they would cancel the agreement and charge Wheeling to points west of Sacramento, and vice versa. their higher rates on shipments, ·"or collect as liquidated damages a Third. That on the 1st day of January, 1880, so much of the South­ sum equivalent to the charges said goods would have been subject to if eTn Pacific Railroad as was necessary to consolidate the two roads was shipped by rail in accordance with the terms of this agreement." leased to the Central Pacific Railroad for the term of five years and This pool, not content with its extensive combination, adopted this until the Southern Pacific should be built tO its connection with the extraordinary means of forcing shippers to contract in adV'ance to send Eastern railroads for the monthly rental of $250 per mile, for the pur­ all their merchandise o•er their lines, or pay the penalty of not doing pose of controlling the rates of transportation and preventing competi­ so by paying much higher rates of freight than those specified in the tion. contract. And the terms of the contract, which I can not take time Fourth. Th..'lt on the 4th of March, 1880, anoth~r contract was en- to read, show that two of the objects which the railroads expected to l886. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. ~ 7283 accomplish by these contracts were to prevent the competition of other road companies, than the Senate bill, if it shotrl.d be executed honestly railroads and of the Pacific Mail Steamship Company. . and in good faith. A careful perusal of the two bills will, I think, I quote the following from the New York Times of ~!arch 14, 1886, convince any impartial mind of the truth of this statement. The Senate to show that the Transcontinental Association of ~ilroads, to which! bill is, however, preferred by the railroad corporations, because under it have referred, in the exercise of its powers as a. monopoly, conferred on they see greater chances for trickery and evasion; with whatever chances another great and odious monopoly, the Standard Oil Company, a com­ there may be for their control.llilg in their interest the appointment ot plete control of the oil trade on the Pacific slope, in the great plains, the commission, or of controlling the commission in their interest after and in the Rocky Mountain region. it shall be appointed; and because the Senate bill puts the commission A circular recently issued for the information of 1-ailroad companies on the between the complaining .citizen and the railroad, instead of allowing Pacific coast shows that the Standard Oil Company has used transcontinental the citizen to appeal directly to the courts for redress of his wrongs, lines to ruin competitors and build up its monopoly as it has used Eastern roads to accomplish the same objects. This circular gives notice that, owing to the as the House bill does. transcontinental railroad war and the cutting· of freight rates, the Standard's When we remember that this commission is to be composed of five contract for a special rate from Chicago westward has been abrogated. It ap­ persons only, thatall their.judgments are to be rendered in Washing­ pe.ars that nnder this contract the company's oil was carried from Chicago to California for 72l cents per 100 pounds, while all other shippers were obliged to ton city, though it may send members of the board to different parts pay a rate of$L20. The contract has been in force since 1884. The roads that of the country to make inquiry and to take testimony; when we con­ have been used in this way to give to this company complete control of the oil sider that it will have at least 130,000 miles of railroad to look after trade of the :Padfic slope were built in part with Government money and the proceeds of the sale of public lands. The facts in the case furnish a. strong argu­ and to extend its supervision to, and that the roads cover the thirty. xuent in support of a proper regulation of interstate comme1·ce by law. eight States and eight Territories of the Union, with their 60,000,000 I a.lso quote an •editorial paragraph from the Washington Post of ofpopulation, and transport not less than $15,000,000,000 worth of .A.pril 8, 1886, going to show how these corporations enrich themselves interstate commerce annually, it will be seen how utterly impossible by the dishonorable means of watering their stocks, and overtax the it will be for one tribu~ml composed of five men holding their official commerce of the country and oppress the laboring people, in order that sessions at .one place to successfully regulate and supervise this vast they may increase the value of their stocks or obtain dividends on this field of transportation with all its numberless c.1.uses of controversy fraudulent stock. and litigation. When we consider the number of distri.ct and circuit court judges and There is a very general belief that the laboring classes are subjected to m~ch inju tice at the ha.nds of the monopolizing capitalists who employ them. There judges of the Supreme Court, of the Court of Claims, and of the District is not a railroad corporation in the country which has not watered its stock to of Columbia, and the Territorial judges whlch it is found necess::~ry to such a degree that its ostensible capital is largely fictitious. To create a market employ in the enforcement of Federal legislation, without reference to v al!le for these fictitious s~ares a. profit must be earned and a dividend declared, which can only be done by reducmgwages to the lowest possible point. There the larger number of judges of the St..nld be much less probability of their being tempted or tampered the commission to :fix rates. In this it seems to be strangely illooiml. Wit~l. Nor can wejndge what the result of the action of a commission The· House bill p1·oceeds on the theory of abridging the mon~poly for the whole United States would be from what has been done in a powers of the railroad companies, and of prohibiting the greater and single State by a State commissioner. more manifest violations of right by them, without attemptino- a de­ In ~Ir. Hudson's book, which is the only one on this subject I have tailed regulation of freight rates; and provides for the enforce~ent of met with written in the interest of the people, in which great industry its provisions through the courts of ordinary jurisdiction, which are is shown in the collection and consideration of facts connected with within conve:::1ient re~h of the people, and with whose methods of pro­ railway management, it is said, on pages 339 a.nd 34.0: · cedure they are familiar. No matter how stringent or specific the law maybe in prohibiting ex tortionate rates, d iscrimination, or pooling, its effectiveness, if its enforcement is pu t into The Senate bill proposes to enfbrce its provisions by bureau orders the hands of a commission, will depend entirely upon the vigor and faithfulnes and the proceedings of courts combined. The American people have ?f tlJat body._ 'Vhat guarantee h a ve we in the provisions of the bill or in the as a rule great respect for law and for the action.ofthejudiciary, but ll"!fluences that would control the selection of commissioners tha t they would d1splay these qualities? It must be r emembered that this legislation seeks lo theynrenot accustomed to the administration of the civil law through restrain the greatest power in the country, except the united and aroused pop· bureau orders. This system belongs in fact to despotic governments· ular will. It confronts not a local or private wrongdoer, but the organized and not to free republics. And I submit with due respect that the Hous~ ~om~:?ined power of the rail wa;y corporation, with unlimited political influence, Infimte resources for corruption, and secret methods for controlling appoint­ bill will secure more ample, prompt, and pertect protection to the ments and legislation. tights of the people, with less friction and embarrassment to the rail- Tilts power has kept courts in its pay, it defies the principles of common law, 7284 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. JULY 21,

and nullifies the constitutromrl provisions of a dozen States; it has many rep­ nring and all employments requiring skilled labor dependent on such resentatives in Cong-ress and unnumbered seat.s in the State Legislatures. No ordinary body of men can permanently resist it. Here is the fatal weakness of points of less value. It is a policy which augments the wealth and laws establishing railway commi.ssions, whether their other provisions be radi­ prosperity of people at competing centers of trade, while it impoverishes cal o1· mild. If, by any happy suspension of the nature of things~ the stream those who live at non-competing points in the smaller towns a.nd rural turned out to be purer than its source, what hope is there that it could be kept clear and undefiled under the corrupting influences which would await it at parts of the country. Neither the Government of the United States nor every turn of its future course? It is possible that, in obedience to an impera­ those of the several States can sanction or tolemte a policy or practice tive public demand, such a body might be organized with t.he sincere purpose which works such manifest n.nd flagrant injustice to so large a part, in­ of restraining and preventing corporate abuses. The popular will has estab­ lished such bodies in one or two States. deed to a large majority, of our people. But legislation must regard the future and seek a remedy that will be effect­ The second essential feature in a j nst policy of railroad regulation is ive, not merely for the next year or two but for future generations. Let popu­ that freight rates and charges should be plainly stated in schedules, lar vi.e:ilance be lulled, or the public attention directed to other issues, and will not this stealthy and almost resistless powe1· gradually fill the commission with which should be posted up in public view at aU places of shipment. its tools, or win over the members to its purposes? It is idle to hope that a board Most railroad companies profess to do this now, but the violation of of nine commissioners, with salaries such as a gr~t railway pays it.s third-class their schedules is more the rule of their action th:.1.n the observ-ance of subordinates, will permanently remain superior to the manifold forms of press­ ure and corruption that can be exerted by four thousand millions of railway them. The allowance of special rates, of rebates, of cut r~tes, &c., is · capital, until it has been demonstrated that a housemaid's mop can keep back resorted to for the benefit or those on whom tht'.Se companies choose to the tides of the Atlantic Ocean. confer special favors; and in many cases, perhaps most c.c-ises, where it I read also as follows from pages 341 and 342: is done, officers of the railroads, faithless alike to the pub lie and to the stockholders of these roads, are beneficiaries in and grow. rich upon Such a body would sooner or later become a mere bulwark or outpost fo1· the defense of corporate abuses, instead of a fortress of popular rights. To expect these frauds. this is simply to recognize the limitations of human strength when pitted against By this policy they ca.n and ~o injure the trade of some pla~es and the vastest power for corruption ever known." The resultoftheunequal match build up the trade of others; and by it they enrich some men while is ns certain ns if nine men, however expert and strong, were ordered to stand in the path and arrest the destructive course of a mountain avalanche. they impoverish others, make some prosperous while they drive others The force of this objection to the regulation of the railways by a few commis­ out of business. That these wrongs are of constant occurrence in all sioners is shown in the history of such bodies, when established by State legisla­ parts of the cou~try is notorious. That Congress bas the power to tion. Railway commissions are in existence in Massachusetts, New Y 01·k, Geor­ gia, lllinois, Iowa., Kansas, Colorado, and California. Some of these are invested pre'vent them is not doubted, as far as relate..q to interstate commerce. with large powers, while some are merely supervising and advisory boards. Only That this is not done is not creditable to either the intelligence or the two of these bodies have, within four years, made any active effort to restrain integrity of Congress. These wrongs can never be avoided or corrected abuses which have aroused the press and the public to impatience. The other six, for any practical benefit they have secured to the people, might as well have until freight rates ~re required to be made public, and until it is made charge of regulating the movements of the heavenly bodies. a punishable crime and a subject of legal damage to charge more or It is instructive to notice that the effectiveness of these boards appears to have in no relation to the thoroughness or radicalism of the legislation by which they less than the published rates. This is provided for the House bill. are established. The Georgia. railway commission has perhaps as great powers It is not provided for in the Senate bill. as were ever proposed for any such body; and its energy in enforcing them has The third great essential principle necessary to a successful protec· attracted the enmity of the railways, which have recently demanded the restric­ tion of the powers of the commission. The California commission, with powers tion of the public against the improper and injurious conduct of the almost if not quite as great, bas not vitality enough to make even a passing im­ railroad companies is that the pooling of the business and earnings of pression on the sway of the Central Pacific over California commerce. The Illi­ competing railroads shall be prohibited. Tho competition of compet­ nois commissioners, holding about the !!ame powers proposed by the Cullom ing 1·oads is the only real check now on the monopoly powers they: pos­ bill, with the additional prerogative of prescribing maximum rates, bas of late years shown a disposition to investigate and correct the most serious of the sess. Monopolies are denounced by the common law. They are de­ abuses which it is its duty to check. nounced by our State constitutions a.nd laws. They all injuriously The commissions of other States exhibit-varying evidences of inefficiency, restrict trade. ·They·tend todistressandimpoverishany people and any from futile nttemr.ts to restrain corporate powers to superogatory efforts to strengthen the railways in their supremacy over commerce. It is a. significant country in which they hold sway. T.i;ley are of the very essence of des­ measure of the adequacy of this device that even in lllinois, where the commis­ potism, oppressio~ n.nd 'vrong; mul no free people ought to submit to sion was established in obedience to the same overwhelming public demand for regulation of the railways which produced the famous Granger legislation, them nof can do so long and remain a free people. it served for several years only to show how useless and lifeless such a guard­ The establi~hment and enforcement ofthese three principles are fought ianship of the public interests can be. And even now the charge is made in harder by the railroad representatives, because they are valued most by that State, through the press, that the railroads, in violation of the law, are making unjust discriminations whenever it suits the convenience and interest therri as the means of giving them the sole control of the commerce and of some pool, and that the commissioners are doing nothing to protect the the mastery of the business and wealth of the country. Hence they people's interests. f:~.vor the Senate bill and oppese the Honse bill. I also rend the following from pages 34.8 and 34.9: In urging the special importa.nce of these three great principles I do not wish to be understood as under>n.luing many others. To make this A plan which', among the State commissions already constituted, results in, at most, two out of eight that are efficient and useful, does not promise to grapple regnlati.Gn effective, we must require all charges to be reasonable. We successfully with the >ast railway powers of the entire country in the interest must require that there shall be no discriminations in charges as be­ of independent commerce. The power which has converted the Charles Fl·an­ tween individuals. We must provide against evasions of the law. cis Adams of 1875 into the Charles Francis Adams of 1885 can not be conquered and held in subjection by any body of nine men at salaries of $7,500 each. Such We must provide for the production and inspection of the books and legislation as results, in the greatest State of the Union, in a commission which, papers of these corporations, and compel their officers and agents to constituted for the public protection, assumes the guardianship of the railways . testify when necessary to tbe ends of justice. And we must enforce all and proposes to limit competition by forbidding capital and the public to build new roads will never adequately protect the public interests. To put such a. these principles through the courts of ordinary jurisdiction, with the body of weak and fallible men in charge of the vast interests of combined rail­ proceedings of which our peopleare familiar, and where justice can be way capital is not less fatuous than it would be to station a. pigmy sentinel at had speedily and cheaply, at the hands of an honest court and a jury of the door of the treasure-house and bid him guard it against an enemy. twelve men. All these things the House bill provides for. Many of Instead of such a system, the House bill provides tha~ any citizen them the Senate's bill does not provide for. How long shall the Amer­ aggrieved by a violation of its provisions may appeal directly to a court ican people wait for this measure of necessary protection and justice? and jury for redress, and that he may proceed both by civil suit and by 1\Ir. 0' NEILL, of Pennsylvania. Mr. Speaker, I wish to call the at­ criminal prosecution. tention of the gentleman from Texas [Air. REAGAN], in the first place, The question as to which of these plans shonltl be adopted has in to a few words said·by him on the 16th day of March last, when here­ three different Congresses in the last few years been passed on by this ported this bill from the Committee on Commerce. I wish the gentle­ Honse, and on each occasion the House by a large majority declared in man from Texas would listen to these words which he then uttered and ·favor of the plan pre"sented by the House bill as best for the general which I will read. They-are as follows: welfare. :r.I.r. REAGAN. So far as I am concerned, I shall be disposed to allow rensou· able debate; but I should not desire to see the debate run to an unreasonablo Having called attention to the lending points of difference between extent. The subject has been so much discussed heretofore that I take it a very the Senate and Honse bills I desire to state that after several years' great length of time will not be required for its discussion. But I desire to sec study on this subject I do not believe it possible to successfully conlrol full and fair debate. the action of the railroad corporations in the inte1·est of the public with­ Such was the utterance of the gentleman from Texan, the chairmau out embracing in the plan for this purpose thre~ important features, to of the Committee on Commerce, when he reported the bill totbeHous'e; which I desire now to call particular attention. and he said at other times that he was in favor of such a full debate as The first is the necessity of prohibiting the charging of more for the would enable each member of that Committee on Commerce to have one can-iage of a like amount and kind of freight for a shorter than a longer hour if he so desired. I suppose thegentleman'sm)derstanding of full haul, which includes the shorter on the same road. The violation of debate has been shown to the HoiD:;e by his occupj~ng a full hour an<.l this principle enables the railroads to collect from a part of .the people five minutes. I presume that was done by the consent of others who the cost of carrying the freights of another part of the people. It causes had the privilege of speaking on that side if they wished to do so. f1·eight rates at competing points to be put down at rates which do not The gentleman has not forgotten his speeches of the past. He is not pay for their carriage, and to tax the people at non-competing points tired of speaking of the railroads as '• oppressive monopolies." · He is enough more than it is worth to carry their freights to make up tor the not tired of referring to the Standard Oil Company. I have understood loss of revenue on the freight hauled from competing points. This prac­ the Standard Oil Company is not a factor and has not been for some tice reduces the value of commodities which are to be shipped from non­ years in the question of freights carried by railroads. That has been competing points, red nces the val ne of farms and other property depend­ my understanding. If any gentleman present knows to the contrary ent on shipments from non-competing points, and renders manufact- I shall be glad to be _corrected. • 1886. CONGRESSIONAL . RECORD-HOUSE. 7285

But in view of the short time we are to have for this gen·eral debate tat ion directly affects the price at which the citizen of the United States is en­ abled to place his product& in those common markets, and any unwise restric­ I am desirous my colleagues composing the minority of the Committee tion or regulation may render it impossible for him to meet his competitors on on Commerce so far as the Reagan bill is concerned shall be afforded even terms, and may thus seriously cripple many of the leading industries of some time out of the hour and five minutes at my disposal under the our country. It will be seen at a glance that cotton, coal, wheat, provisions and breadstuffs resolution limiting general debate to two hours and ten minutes to be of all kinds, and generally all commercial and agricultural products, form the heard, and therefore I shall not occupy the whole of that time, but will great bulk of the interstate commerce of the country, and it is unive~;sally con­ yield a portion to them. ceded that through the system pursued by the railways in the past these indus­ I have before me a great deal of printed matter which I believed I tries have been extensively developeQrtion of their traffic, it would be destructive of their interests to. Mr. ROWELL. Do you say it does not allow discrimination when reduce all their rates to those which were forced upon them between certain the commission approves of it? points by the competition of the water routes. The minority consider that in this, also, unjust discrimination should never be made, but that. the idea of charg­ Mr. O'NEILL, of Pennsylvania. I say that in a statesman-like way ing the same rate for the haul under similar conditions and circumstances should the Senate bill allows questions to be referred to the interstate-com­ be adhered to. merce commissioners. I say in that respect it is superior to the iron­ The minority also differ from the majority upon t.he subject of ·"pooling-." clad bill of the.gentleman fTom Texas. They believe its absolute prohibition is unnecessary. There should be legisla­ tion imposing restrictive provisions, for shippers should not be placed at a dis­ Mr. CA-LDWELL. Will the gentleman yield to me for a question? advantage or competition in freight charges lessened so that transporters only Mr. O'NEILL, of Pennsylvania. Certainly. should be benefited. If fairly carried out and not done by secret and private arrangement, if resorted to for the purpose of preventing what is called injudi­ Mr. CALDWELL. Does not the Senate bill put it in the power of cious" cutting down" of rates, so that reasonable and just charges should be the commission to exempt any road they see proper from the operatjons, permanently adhered to, are the means by which transpo1·ters endeavor, or ought and therefore is not that the grossest kind of discrimination if it be to endeavor, to secure fair rates upon the traffic which they carry, "pooling" true? would not be open to many of the objections made to it. Past experience in railway transportation has satisfied transporters that the Mr. O'NEILL, ofPennsylvf)Jlia. Yes, it does. It does it in the right "pool" is the nearest and fairest device yet used to enable them to place ship­ direction. It does it. in the direction of accommodating the people who pers UJ>Qn an equality and prevent grievous discrimination in favor of the large have freights to send by railroad. shippers as against the smaller ones. But we appreciate the difficulty of satisfactorily legislating upon this subject, Mr. CALDWELL. Could they not by that means ruin ·one system and would prefer to leave it to the consideration of a board of interstate-com­ of railroads to build up another? merce commission, which tribunal we hope will be created. So· much for what Mr. O'NEILL, of Pennsylvania. Why this Rea.,aan bill will ruin all the minority suggest as to the drawback or rebate, the longer and shorter haul, and the" pooling" systems. Proper notification of the changing of rates, with systems of railroads and all progress in building them and all endeavors the limitation or a reasonable time, publicly posted in stations judiciously se­ to get capital to keep them up or to construct new lines. lected in accprliance with the amount of freight offered, upon an equilable an­ Mr. WE.A. VER, of Nebraska. May I ask the gentleman another nual average, might also be conducive of confidence of the shipper in the trans­ porter. A carefully digested section might be incorporated in the law to meet question? this point. Mr. O'NEILL, of Pennsylvania. Certainly. The conclusion of the minority is, however, unfavorable to positive legisla­ Mr. WEAVER, of Nebraska. Does not the Cullom bill allow the tion other than the above suggested, believing that it is impossible for Congress, limited necessarily in practical knowledge of railway movements, prejudiced roads to discriminate between persons who ship under similar cil'cum­ perhaps against the rail way system by some local disagre.ements not yet settled, st.ances? led to think that an occasional instance of what appears to be unfair dealing: Mr. O'NEILL, ofPennsylvania. Exactly, and soitshonld. Thatis with the shipper is the transporter's general course, and beg leave to suggest that the most available present remedy for imaginary as well as real grievances just the difference between the Cullom and the Reagan bills, and just is the creation by law of a board of interstate-commerce com~ssion. what I favor. But I may say here that I would be satisfied with a It is the province of legislators to ascertain by intelligent experience the leg­ purely commission bill, such as was presented here in this and in a islation required, and that experience can best be secured throu!o("h the proposed commission. It should be a permanently-established bureau of an appropriate former Congress by the gentleman from illinois [Mr. HENDERSON], department; ~hould be composed of the ablest men of the country; salaries and also in the last Congress by Mr. Horr, of Michigan. I would be should be large enough to attract men from the very highest and most lucrative willing to intrust to the commission all of the questions that might positions of the varied business life of our citizens. This board should have power to investigate all complaints connected w:ith the management of inter­ arise between the shippers and the carriers of freight. state commerce; power to secure their redress through the voluntary action of Now, I desire to have read to the House the report of the minority transporters or through legal proceedings instituted by it through the proper of the Co~mittee on Commerce on this bill, as I fear under the limit legal officers of the United Rtates. 'Ve desire to impress the House with our implicit belief in the present advan­ to the debate these gentlemen will not have any opportunity of discuss­ tage of a board of interstate-commerce commissioners. We ask you to defer ing at length the provisions of either of the pending propositions, and I ra.dicallegislation until we have tried the commission, which, with powers to will ask that this be read from the desk. · bear grievances, will also be required to report annually to U<>ngress, and to sug­ gest from time to time the legislation necessary to create harmony between ship­ The Clerk read as follows: pers and transporters. • The minority, never for one moment seeking tQ depreciate the importance of All which we submit. enacting a law upon the subject of interstate commerce, but believing that wise CJIAS. O'NEILL. and well-digested legudation will be gladly accepted by the people and by the ROBERT T. DAVIS. railroad companies engaged in transportation between the States and between RANSOM W. DUNHAM. the United States and adjacent foreign countries, have looked with due delib­ FREDERICK A. JQHNSO~. eration upon this matter as one equally as grave as any pending before Con- gress. • Mr. O'NEILL, of Pennsylvania. Mr. Speaker, I have stated the The interstate commerce of the country, which it is proposed to supervise and regulate, now passes over more than 125,000 miles of railway, representing an reasons why I have had the report read. I wish to have the views of investment approaching 88,000,000,000, upon which during the year 1884 nearly the minority placed upon the RECORD, and thought it might as well 350,000,000 passengers and nearly 400,000,000 tons of freight were carried, while come in here as elsewhere.. during the same period transporters upon water ways, natural and artificial, in most instances competitors of the railways, carried less tons of freight and fewer Now, that report follows out the idea from the beginning to the end passengers; yet their proportion was very large. of anti-discrimination. I am glad to be able to say that the Senate While it is remembered that a large portion of this freight and passenger bill almost carries out the ideas presented in th~ minority report of the traffic will be directly affected by the provisions of the proposed bill, usually designated as the Reagan bill, it should be borne in mind that the interstate House Committee on Commerce. without any consultation at all with freight traffic ca!rie~ ov~r the railro~~s of t~e United States is composed largely Senators who composed the Cullom committee. That report, which of products commg m duect competition w1th the products of foreign countries. is very conservative-a very con.qervative report, indeed, but very anti­ The American railways having to meet these products in the markete of the world upon equal terms, it can read~ly be seen that the question of regulating discriminating in its views-is the report that the minority of the com­ the rates upon that freight traffic is a most serious one, The cost of transpor- mittee present, and the report which recommends the establishment 7286 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. JULY 21, . of a commission in the legislation upon the subject of drawbacks or Mr. O'NEILL. Well, the Cullom bill, in section 7, proposes to help rebates and upon the long and short haul question and the manner of it, and I propose to offer an amendment when it comes before this House publishing changes in freight charges for the public information. It that will help that still more in another direction. I propose, if ~os­ purposes to leave "pooling" to the consideration of the commission. sible, to bind them in some way, bind their agents in the city of Chi­ I will say further to .the gentleman from TeXDS, or to any other gen­ cago, for example, where there are connections of the American lines tleman who does not favor an interstate-commerce commission, that it with them. must be known very well that no bill to. regulate interstate-commerce .Mr. BYNUM. The House bill does that. can become a law that has not a pr«ision creating a. commission of in­ Mr. O'NEILL. The Honse bill tries to do it, but does not do it terstate-commerce commissioners. . effectually. It does it in refel'ence lio the importation of goods; the The Senate bill has in it legislation I do not approve of, and I shaH amendment ofthegentlemanfromNebraska [Mr. WEAVER] does that. propose to amend it if I have an opportunity when it comes before the Mr. DUNHAM. It does it wher~ freight, going from New York to House for consideration under the five-minute rule.· I shall offer an Chicago, passes through Canada. amendment in the first place that this bill shall apply to all carriers, .Mr. WEAVER, of Nebraska. Well, of course we can not regulate not only to carriers by railroads, but to carriers on the water ways of the roads in Canada. the country as well. 4-nd I think if the gentleman from Texas had Ur. DUNHAM. But what I was speaking of was the business pass­ been sincere in the last ten or twelve years in his agitation of the sub­ ing over the Canadian Pacific Railroad from the Pooi:fic coast to Mon­ ject he would have had his bill apply to common carriers alike and treal. We may tie up our own roads by this legislation so as to let the subject them to the same conditions, or else place himself in the atti­ Canadian line take the whole of that business, leaving none fo1: the tude that he was probably in the interest of the water ways as against American lines. the railroads of the country. Mr. WEAVER, of N ebra,eka. The only thing in which the Canadian Now I refer the members of this House to the speech made in the roads would have an advantage over the milroads of the United States Senate 'Qy Mr. BROWN upon this subject, and to the ntunber of statis­ would be on through shipments from the United States into Canada and tics incorporated in that speech, in which he shows the transporta­ back into the United States, and.in that particular we have put a pro­ tion paid to the water ways as compared with railroad transportation vision in the bill which absolutely requires them to make public their upon the Ohio, Lower Mississippi, and other rivers, which establishes rates. the fact just as absolutely as anything can be established that they Mr. DUNH.A.M. The gentleman is entirely ·mistaken. They ·are are endeavo1:ing to charge and are actually charging for short hauls liable to take the entire China trade from us. more than for long ha.uls, and have continued to do it, and will con­ Mr. O'NEILL, of PemiSylvania. Mr. Speaker, my time is so limited tinue to do it, unless we insert a condition in this bill that its provis­ that I must insist upon resuming the floor. ions shall apply to the water ways of .the country as well as to the rail­ Now, I would strike·out of the Cullom bill also the clause bringing ways. In that respect I differ with my colleagues on the Committee passenger traffic within its provisions. The idea of the gentleman from on Commerce who have joined in the minority report, and I would Texas [Mr. REAGAN] all along has been to regulate freight traffic, :md haYe liked to have recommended in the report the insertion of the wate1· his bill does not apply to passenge-rs, but the Senate bill does. We are ways. I think there are other members of the committee, other than here endeavoring to regulate the carriage of interstate freight, not the the four who signed the report, who favor introducing the water ways carriage of passengers, which is an entirely different question. I shall and making the clearest and most stringent _pYovisions of both the seek to amend the Cullom bill in that .particular. . House and the Senate bills applicable to all common carriers engaged Mr. Speaker, I am mueh hurried, because I can not selfishly take this in interstate commerce. . whole hom and :five minutes to myself, and I think I may avail myself Mr. DUNHAM. The gentleman would not have the House infer of the general permission to print what my limit of time fixed in my from what he said that all of the minority are in favor of undertaking mind, about forty minutes, prevents me from saying to the House. to regulate water ways? I will propose an amendment increasing the salaries of $7,500 of the Mr. O'NEILL, of Pennsylvania. By no means. On the contmry, commissioners to $10,000 pe1: annum. Tlris amount would satisfy men I stated just the reverse, that I differed with my colleagues in the mi­ of great distinction and great learning and of nn~oubted integrity to nority in that respect, as I believe.in making it applicable to all car­ leave their private business to take such honorable positions. Believ­ riers. Why should it not be? There are millions of dollars invested ing that holding stock or bonds in a railroad company should not dis­ in steamboat transportation and other kinds of tmnsportation upon the qualify a man from accepting the office of a commissioner, I would strike rivers-millions of dollars. There are corporations upon corporations, out that inhibition in the Cullom bill and provide in its place that a and there are individuals who are enabled to enter into combinations commissioner should not take part in the decision of any complaint us carriers by water ways just as great and obstructive to commerce as against such company of whose stock or bonds he might be an owner. far as they go as those alleged to be made by the railroad companies Many of the wisest and purest men of the country might be prevented in regard to freight, and yet, sir, ifwe carry out the ideas embodied in from taking such an office because of his legitimately owning railroad the Reagan bill, if. the House takes that bill, we make the water ways securities, while an upright man in any judicial position would decline of the country still more liable to combine a.s to charges for freight. to hear or decide a case in which he might have even .a remote interest. They control tho&e charges now, but when we pass that bill they I confess that I have been ove1: this question of interstate commerce will control it more, and just as they want to, in reference to short and again and again during· the last ten years, just as the gentleman from long hauls. In other words, the carriers. by water are the great com­ Texas has been over it. I differ from him materially in regard to it, petitors of the railway carriers of this country in whatever part of the and let me add that the bill now presented by him is not the same bill country water and rail come in competition. I believe that ifall carriers that he presented ten years ago. He himself has had light upon this were included. in the Reagan bill or in the Cullom bill the railroad subject from some quarter, and the consequence is that the great iron­ companies would almost be willing to accept the pmposed legislation, clad features of his former bills do nob all appear in this one. The especially the legislation sought for by the Cullom bill. For seven reason I do not know, unless it be because he has been compelled re· months in the year, or nearly that long, the water ways are absolute in lnctantly to listen in the committee-room to the explanations of prac­ fixing the freight rates of the railroads. tical railroad men, and has learned from those men, who have at heart So I propose to offer that amendment to the Cullom bill. I shall also the interests of the people whose freight is to be carried, and especially offer a further amendment, that a license shall be taken out by all inter­ of those of the Western part of the country, that such legislation as state commerce carriers of freight, to apply not only to carriers of freight the Reagan bill would be destructive of cheap freights, prompt carriage, of our own country but to foreign trunk lines doing interstate-commerce and the general railroad in~erests . . 1\I::my years have been required to business in it. I am free to say that I want to bring under the pro­ bring eur railroad system to its present accommodating position. Do visions of either bill, the Senate bill or the Reagan bill, if possible, and not let us make it less useful; do not let us interfere with it by unwise I think it can be done, the great trunk line railway of Canada. I want legislation. . · . to bring all roads that ara competitors with our own upon the same .Mr. WEAVER, of Nebraska. Is it not a fact that up to a recent basis. e, the State of Massachusetts ne its The Pennl!ylvania Railroad's freight tonnage moved 1 mile in 1885 was the largest in the history of the company, being 235,966,277 tons greater than the to­ suggestions to be unanswerable as far as the good ·of the business peo­ tal tonnage moved 1 mile in the preceding year. The average rate per t<>n per ple of the country is concerned, and that the carri~rs of freigh~ .can mile charged to the shipper in 1885 was 0.627 cents, being the lowest rate ever not reasonably object to the passage of a law embracmg the p1·o~ons received by the company since its organization, and O.:U3 cents per ton per mile less than the rate received in 1884.. In the year 1865 the total amount of freight proposed. Radical legislation would bring great injury to bnsmess, moved 1 mile was 420,060,260 tons, a. very large quantity for that period, but in while proper laws upon this subject would meet the approval of tho 1885 the total tons of freight moved the same distance had grown to the enor­ people. We are a business, progressive people, and Congress is ex­ mous amount of 3,318,466,263 tons. In 1865 the average rate per ton per mile re­ ceived for carrying freight was 2.665 cents, while in 1885 the average rate was pected so to legislate as to increase every interest and to injure none. but 0.627 cents. The amount -<>f reduction in the charge for transportation in lli. Speaker, I may, as I have said already, print much that I have 1885, computed on the difference between the rate in that year and that which left unsaid, and especially matter in print which I know would be read was charged in 1865, made a. saving to shippers of $67,630,342.44. The total re­ duction for twenty years, computed upon the same basis, shows a saving of with interest by the members of the House. . . $)65,238,590.22. Had the Pennsylvania Railroad charged 1 mill per ton per mile Mr. Speaker, I now yield for a motn.ent to the gentleman from llh... more for the transportation of freight in 1885 than the rate paid the receipts of nois [Mr. Dm."'HAM]. the company would have been $3,318,466 greater than they were. The follow­ ing statement, showing, for each year since 1865, the number of tons of freight Mr. TURNER. Will the gentleman from Pennsylvania [Ur. moved 1 mile', the rate per ton per mile, and the amount of reduction in any O'NEILL] allow me to make an announcement? given year by the Pennsylvania Railroad Division, computed on the difference Mr. O'NEILL, of Pennsylvania. Yes, sir. between the rate in that year and that which was charged in 1865,will be found interesting: ELECTION CONTEST-PAGE VS. PIRCE . . 1\Ir. TURNER. I desire to give notice that on Friday next I shall .! Q) ""Pc. 8i~ move to discharge the Committee on Elections from the further consi:i.­ '§ Q) ~G.l~oo Q) G)- eration of the contested-election case of Page vs. Pirce, from the State of r:: ~ ~§ 0 ~a .... .d-o Rhode Island, and ask the Honse to consider it. Years. Ill "",.. O~_s . s:: G)Q) !lOPe ~ 4) =l") EVENING SESSION FOR DEBATE ONLY. .£ csr:: S:: p.O ""o 5r::s~ ~Ir. DU:t-."'HAM. Mr. Speaker, I desire to state that, in accordance 3 ~ ... S·~ o'O 0 ~ ..... ~ with the request of several gentlemen on both sidt>.s of the House, I am ~ ~ willinested in railroads, the aggregate extent of their mileage and the Mr. O'NEILL, of Pennsylvania. The matter just read by the Clerk cost of operating them, and their intimate relations with our great shows the millions of dollars saved within the last few years to the producing interest-A, is one of vital importance. A glance at the census freight-senders ofthis country by the action of the railroads themselves; tables reveals the proportions of this great-interest. and the statement applies to other railroads as well as to the Pennsyl­ In 1884:the property invested in railroads amounted to $7,431,732,458, Tania Railroad Company. the entire taxable property of all the States of the Union being $19,- On all important subjects of legislation we bear a great deal through 790,333,650, the capital invested in all the manufacturing industries the petition-box. Now, the petitions to this House on the one side or of the country (gas excepted) amounting to $2,790,223,506, the total the othe! of this question come from only twelve or thirteen different Talue of farms in all the States and Territories being $10,197,096,776. sources; and almost all of these petitioners, be they commercial asso­ It will be seen that the property in railroads amounts to more than ciations, supervisors of counties, boards of any kind, or individuals, one and one-halftimes the capital employed in all the various manu­ recommend generally in so many words the Cullom bill, and there is factures of the country, _with one inconsiderable exception, that it but one of those petitions, and that coming from an almost insignificant equals seven-tenths of the value of all the farms and 27 per cent. of all town of this country, I mean in population, .which recommends the the taxable property of the States and Territories. It is represented passage of the Reagan bill. by an immense.net-work of railroad lines which extends from Maine to What do the records of this House show in regard to this matter? Texas, from Minnesota to Florida, from the lakes to the Gulf, and from We have resolutions favoring the Cullom bill from the Board of Trade the Atlantic to the Pacific coast, aggregating more than 125,000 miles, of the city of Philadelphia, from the Legislature of the State of Iowa, 11,000 miles more than the entire railroad system of Europe. from the Merchants and Manufactnren;' Association of Cincinnati, and The number of tons of freight carried on our railroads in 1884 equaled others. When we come to find who have sent in petitions opposing the 390,074,749, yaJoed at $9,751,868,725, and tbeytransported.duringthe bill, perhaps the most numerous petitions, all alike, from any section of same year 334,814,529 passengers. In doing this vast business nearly the country come from a few towns in the county of Saint Croix, in the five hundred thousand men are employed, whose daily subsistence and State of Wisconsin. I do not doubt that those people have an interest that of their families are dependent upon the business of these roads. in the subject of interstate commerce; but they represent a county the At this moment serious controversies exist between the railroad man­ whole population of which is not more than twenty-five or thirty agers and their employes. It is not to be doubted that they will soon thousand; while from the great centers of trade-Chicago, Saint Louis, terminate, their interests being substantia"ijy identical and the success Philadelphia, New York, Baltimore, and Boston-we hear nothing in of the industry being necessary to the prosperity of all classes of labor favor of the Reagan bill, but e>erything in favor of most of the provis· which it employs. ions of the Cullom bill. It bas originated and sprung to these immense proportions within 7288 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD- HOUSE. JULY 21, fifty yearst. much the larger part of its growth having occurred within great distributing centers and to diminish the amount of tonnage trans· the past twenty years. During this time it has been much the most ported. It is claimed that the advantage to through shippers is secured important factor in the material progress of our country. It has so at the expense of communities living on the line of the road because cheapened and expedited transportation that it has more than all other local rates are increased to make good the losses incurred through causes developed the resources of the great West. In its absence the long-haul rates. And this assumption is the strongest reason assigned great States of the Mississippi Valley could not a century hence have for the passage of this provision. In fact it liE>.s at the very foundation attained their present population, wealth, and overshadowing impor­ of the logic which supports it. · tance in our political system. This may be and probably is true during those railroad wars when Undoubtedly there have been two periods in the history of our rail­ freight is carried from competitive points at a loss, but so long as a road system when it was extended beyond thenaturalrequirementsof profit, however small, is made on this .description of traffic, there need the time, and when the vast sums expended in construction and equip­ be no increase of local rates, and the evidence of railroad managers is ment, followed by a sudden cessation of operations and the consequent to the effect that they are not increased. :M:r. Blanchard states that decline in prices of material, leading to the stoppage of mills and the when ever a reduction takes place in the through rates, a reduction takes throwing out of employment of thousands of workmen, have tended to place in the local rates also. (See page 151, pamphlet.) Railroads are produce general business depression. From the results of one ot these usually built to secure traffic along their lines, and so long as they en­ periods of morbid activity we are still laboring. There have been also counter no competition they should adopt charges determined by mile­ serious evils connected with the building of railroads and the manipu­ age; but even then the ratio of increase for distance should not be fixed, lation of their stocks, from which stockholde1·s and bondholders have but should be a diminishing one, otherwise the profit on the merchan­ each suffered and which have driven many railroad corporations into dise would not bear the cost of tr.msportation over a long route. When bankruptcy. Still, spite of much unwise, extravagant, and dishonest the road finally extends, as it usually does, to a point where it encoun­ management and illegitimate speculation, they have been constantly ters competition from other roads or water routes, it must reduce its improving in their methods of administration. rates to meet that competition or it can not do business. Passenger f&res and freight rates have been gradually lessening un­ It is clear, therefore, to me that the principle which prohibits inflexi­ til the former average about 2 cerits per mile and the latter 1 cent per bly under all circumstances a less charge for a longer than for a shorter ton for that distance. When we connect with this cheap transportation­ haul is unjust alike to the shipper and to the carrier, and would prove much the cheapest in the world-the fact that owners of this vast inter­ to be impracticable if its enforcement were attempted. This bill also est are realizing dividends averaging only ~! per cent. annually it prohibits rebates. This princ~ple, when infiexibly applied to the almost would appear that there can be no existing grievance calling for strin­ infinitely various conditions which are connected with our enormous gent legislation. railro:-td traffic, would be mischievous in its effects. To discriminate No one disputes that there have been grave errors and much injustice between the same class of freight carriers under similar conditions is in the management of many of our railroads, which to some extent ex­ unjust, and ought to be prohibited under proper penalties. When a ists to-day. The Reagan bill as a remedial measure has .fi>ur leading railroad company does this, and takes an unia.ir advantage of its power featur~s: First, the long and short haul provision; second, prohibitions to injure the interests of one man and promote the interests of another, ofrebates; third, prohibitionofpools, and fourth, publication of sched­ it commits an outrage which the strong arm of the law should punish. ules. The first provision prohibits the charging of a lower rate for a Unjust discriminations arc difficult of detection, but whenever proven longer than for a shorter haul. the offender should bedealtwith promptly and rig~rously. But there The principle of this prohibition, while specious and even equitable are circumstances under which rebates are justifiable. when applied under substantially similar conditions, would frequently Suppose coal mined on the line of the Reading Railroad to be carried operate injuriously upon long-distance frejght, }Vould seriously cripple at a certain rate per ton to its terminus at Philadelphia. .A. Boston the business of interstate railxoads, and would be of no ad_vantuge to coal-dealer offers a lower rate to that point, stating that if he can secure the short-haul freight. it it will enable him to pay water transportation and lay the coal down Let us suppose a road chartered in one of t1Je States, and at first do­ in Boston as cheap as he can procure it elsewhere. If they accede to ing a local business, in process of time by purchase or lease or some ar­ his proposa,l it will"enable the Schuylkill Valley miner to dispose of that rangement it becomes a carrier of freight from Chicago to New York additional amount of coal and it will furnish more business for the or Philadelphia or other points on our Atlantic seaboard. It there road. He does not secure the lower rate until the bill ot lading or other meets competition which always determines rates. evidence satisfies the railroad managers .that the coal has been shipped It competes with rival roads and also with lines of water transporta­ from Philadelphia to Boston. Then he recei\es a rebate equal to the tion whose competition always compels the lowest rates of freight. difference between his special rate and the usual rate. It is evident Under such circumstances through rates must always be lower per mile that this arrangement, while advarftageous to the road and mine, in­ than short-haul local freight. 'l'his is inevitable and inflicts no injury flicts no injury on the coal dealer in Philadelphia. Transactions of upon local shippers so long as such freight is not <'.arried at a loss. this character are understood to be of frequent occurrence. The same Railroad experts declare that this ne-.er occurs except for short peri­ principle applies where the goods transported are intended for a foreign ods during railroad wars. That railroads can carry through freight for market. long distances at extremely low rates without loss and even at a small In such cases it is necessary that the rato ahould be reduced in order profit is readily demonstrated. The cost of their road-bed is about 40 per to meet competitors abroad. Now every c·ar-load of grain or cattle cent. of the entire cost of the road and equipment. Now, if upon the or pork or nny of the agricultm·a.l products of the West that ('aD. be entire capital invested the corporation makes some profit without car­ slli pped to a foreign market is a relief to the farmer and help to m:tin­ rying through freight, then it is clear that it can ta,ke that additional tain an active demand at home. It is of vast advantnge to him; it is freight at the merecostofthe laboraudfueland the added wear and tear just what he needs, desil·es, and must have. It does no p<>Esible in­ of the equipment and rails withoutincurring loss. ~the rate be suffi­ jury to any interest; but on the contrary, in promoting the prosperity cient to do this and help a little toward paying the interest on the im­ of that great interest upon which all others a1·e based, it contributes to perishable road-bed, it yields a profit and becomes-a. justifiable business the benefit of all. Here again we see the impolicy of adopting an in­ transaction. or course, other things being equal, the amount of the flexible rule and attempting to enforce it.. The conditions are so vari­ through business will dete~mine the amount of the profit or whether able and complex that it is impossible to apply rigid and immutable theTe be any. If a certain pumber of tons of freight on a gi-.en train legislation without doing great and ruinous injury to the producing as will pay running expenses, all over that amount will be carried at a well ns the transporting interests. . profit. Such legislation after becoming a. proved failure would be either re­ I am now t reating through freight as supplementary to the ordinary pealed or remain a dead letter upon the statute-book, while the le~ sons busines:> of a road and sufficiently disti net from its ordinary local business of experience and the laws of trade and transportation would soon re­ to make it propm· to establish independent rates. If through business is sume their normal sway. The remaining important feature of t h is bill to be done at all, it is absolutely necessary to so regard it. The sharp is that of prohibiting pools. This I understand to be an expression to competition of water routes compels the adoption of the lowest remu­ describe a combination between railroads to re~ulate and maintain nerative rates. 'l'he agricultural and commercial interests of the inte­ rates. .A. combination to preYent natural and healthy competition and I'ior of our country demand them. The corn and wheat of the Missis­ to fix nndae and extravagant rates would be against the public inter­ sippi Valley must reach_the Atlantic seaboard at the least possible cost ests, ancl would furnish just ground for repressive legislation. to find a domestic and foreign market. The manufactures of the East This is a popular idea of a pool, and may be in some cases a just one. must be conveyed with equal facility and cheapness to all parts of the There is, however, an arrangement which is the direct result of ruin­ West, as t his reciprocal interchange of raw and manufactured products ons competition and which being abs9lutely necessary to prevent bank­ at the least cost is equally essential to the material interests of all plrts ruptcy is expedient and justifiable. We have repeatedly seen on a of our country. great scale railroad wars so clea-rly unwise and dangerous as to call for I have no hesitation in a....c:serting that this provision of the bill, if car­ some prompt and efficient remedy. The evil to be cured is frequently ried in to effect, would strike a deadly blow at the interests of the caused by the buildin~ of parallel lines of road where none were needed, Western farmer and at the ,general prosperity of the West, whose un­ thus dividing the business below the paying point. Then f'ach of sev­ rivaled development within the last quarter of a century has been ow­ eral roads,commences cutting rates tosecure morethan its share of the ing in large degree to the extension of our railroad system. Its inev­ business, until the rates become nearly nominal and business is done itable result would be to increase freight rates by rail to and from the at a loss. 1886. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 7289

Of course when this process is pursued long enough it becomes a ate to the bill (H. R. 5179) to prohibit the passage of local or special question of the slll'Vival of the fittest. One or more roads which were laws in·the Teuitories of the United States. perhaps always weak become insolvent and are placed in the hands of a receiver, but even this catastrophe may not stop a railroad war; the INTERSTATE COl\illERCE. reeeivermanages the bankrupt road in the interestofthe bondholders, Mr. O'NEILL, of Pennsylvania. I yield for seven minutes to the and so lon~ as even a small percentage is paid upon them, or if the gentleman from Illinois [111r. HITI]. road will simply pay running expenses, or even if the running nets a Mr. HlTT. 1\:lr. Speaker, both of the bills pending here, the Senate small loss, it may continue to be operated for a time. Of course this or Cullom bill providing for a railway commission to regulate railway must end at last or the insolvent road or roads will drag down with transportation, and the House or Reagan. bill to regulate it by a strict them those that up to that time had been in good financial condition. law which is to be enforced by individuals bringing lawsuits at their But the process may be long and distressing. own expense, contain many wholesome principles and excellent provis­ It must be borne in mind that competition does not follow the same ions. But the Senate bill is, I think, manifestly the most effective of rule in industries where there is a large fixed capital that it does in good, and avoteforit will be the most practical in its results. Both pro­ ordinary commercial transactions. In the latter the merchant can stop hibitunreasonablecharges, rebates, drawbacks, special rates, and unjust selling when goods can not be disposed of at a profit, or at the worst discriminations, and both require the railroads to publish and keep posted without loss. He can wait, expecting that his competitor will soon the schedules of rates. Both contain the provision prohibiting a higher either fail or weary of selling below cost, and in either case he can re­ charge for a long haul than for a shorter haul over the same road. That sume business profitably. A manufactory or a :railroad can not stop pi"ovision, though it seems fair in words, is one which, unwisely ap­ without serious loss. The former has a large capital in building and plied, may work great hardship and oppression to the people shipping machinery, the latter in its road-bed and equipment, and they each their products in the Northwest. have large numbers of workmen to whom idleness means poverty and The Cullom or Senate bill fortunately gives a discretion to the com­ distress, and who will seek work elsewhere in case of a stoppage of op­ mission in the ~tpplication of this harsh provision, and I prefer it greatly erations. on that account. It is the good fortune of the people who live at or near The mill or railroad will therefore continue to run beyond the safety­ the termination of the long system of water ways extending from the line indicated by the results of competition. This is peculiarly the fact ea. to Lake Michigan and at the end of the lines of great competing with railroads, because the competition is so direct, and often to a cer­ trunk milways running from New York to Chicago to have, by the tain extent personal, that it becomes bitter and degenerates into strife. donbTe effect of this cheap water transportation in competition with the lilly arran~ement, whatever it may be called, that liberates these wanin:;1; roads, and by the fact of the tru11k lines of roads themst:lves competing interests from such a position should be welcomed. It seems to me that with one another as well as with the propellers and canal-boats in trans­ the only cure is such a settlement as will secure a fair division of the porting hundreds of millions of dollars' worth of products, to have very business and equitable rates of freight. Under such circumstances ul ti­ low rat.es comparatively from Chicago to New York-one-third or one­ mate combination is inevitable. half the ordinaryrates charged elsewhere in the United States for rail­ A famous railroad authority asserts that where combination is possi­ way carriage. In some cases and at certain times the disproportion is ble competition is impossible. These two antagonistic principles, like greater than this. all others, may be carried too far, in which event each produces its own Now, at the stations on these trunk lines ea'lt of Chicago, and east­ peculiar evils. Congress certainly will not insist that destruct.i,ve com­ ward for a long distance, the roads charge lo~l rates on freight going petition shall continue to a bitter and disastrous end, and prohibit the .to New York higher than the through rate from Chicago. They take use of the only means that can prevent it by a mutual agreement to from a station a few car-loads; they take from Chicago ten thousand charge reaSonable rates. train-loads, and in the struggle for it with each other and with the The effect of such a law would be to destroy a large proportion of the waterway by the lakes they carry it at the lowest possible point, some­ railroad property of the country and to build upon its ruins a railroad times at a slight loss. They get a profit from the hundreds of stations monopoly more odious and oppressive than any we have seen. Topre­ paying local rates, and this keeps them running and pays their fixed vent such a result I would allow the roads to make such arrangements charges. Even these local rates on the trunk lines are lower than in as would protect their stockholders and would not injure private rights other parts of the United States. If then by law you absolutely force or public interests which are entirely compatible with such arrange- them to put the local rates down to the through rate, to charge no more ments. · for the shorter than for the long haul, or to put np the through rate so The gradual diminution of the rate of charges within· a few years to that they will not be charging less for along than for a shorter haul, what their present low standard proves that this problem is being satiRfac­ will they do? They must keep their roads running; the local rates torily solved and a.s rapidly as the most sanguine could expect. That are the life of the roads; they will, instead of giving them up, raise there are evils.in railroad management which require correction is no­ the through rate: questionable. These evils should be corrected by some authority which In a word, this Heagan bill strictly carried out as it is severely drawn, can decide each case upon its merits. This authority could be exercised would result in compelling our people in the Northwest to pay local by a commission appointed by the General Government, which could rates on their products going eastward to market. In effect it would investigate all charges of unjust discrimination and exorbitant rates stop them from going at all ancl shut us off from the great markets of and advise the parties of their conclusion. If not acceded to the com­ the East and Europe, for prices are so low now that if you raise the mission could suggest arbitration, and if this were declined by the of­ burden of freightchar~es to be borne by the farmer's crop he can not send fending party could prosecute the delinquent at common law. The it, c.a.n not get any adequate reward for his hard labor. A meddling commission could also report to Congress facts relating to railroad man­ law, inflexibly enforced, though it ma.y be designed with good inten­ agement and suggestions respecting needed legislation. tions, can do incalculable harm. The conclusions of this body would be sustained by public opinion, It is not fair to us, Mr. Speaker, that the advantages of our position, which in our country is sufficiently powerful to compel obedience to with tire lake route and the trunk lines competing for our vast trade its mandates. The decisions of the commissioners would therefore have at low mtes, should betaken away by an arbitrary law. Nature placed immediately the force of law, as is proved in my own State by an ex­ the lakes there, and shaped the continent, and mark.ed out the sites of perience extending over many years. If it should be necessary to ap­ cities and ports and the easy path for the construction of railways. peal to the law, then it would be difficult to enact a code of statutes Legislation did not do it for us, and should not interfere to mar the that would apply to each case as fairly and fully and would result in operation of the laws of nature and of trade. I trust this Congress will such exact justice between the parties as an application of the prin­ not attempt by law to compel Western furmers to pay local rates on the ciples of the common law. enormous crops of the Northwest. This famous system of jurisprudence, whose maxims are derived The Cullom bill, it is true, also contains this provision, which seems from and are applicable to an infinite variety of cases, is the result of so fair and plausible, .and can do so much harm. Bnt the Cullom bill, the accumulated judicial experience and wisdom of many generations. while declaring generally that no more &hall be charged for a shorter It touches every case like the atmosphere which surrounds us, and is than for a longer distance over the same line, very prudently and care­ as firm as the foundations of justice; it has long been regarded with fully provides that upon application to the commission the road may in respect and even reverence by lawyers and laymen alike-a sentiment special cases be authorized to charge l~s for•longer than for shorter which is confirmed by the lapse of time and the accumulating proofS distances. Under that provision the commission can prevent the law of its wisdom and efficiency. from operating unjustly, especially in caseswhere roadsaud waterways Having merely indicated my objections to the bill, without attempt­ compete, and a fair commission would hot allow the la.w to be so ap­ ini t{) argue them at length, I close with a confession of the extraor­ plied as to raise the freight rates on the region lying at and just west dinary difficulties of the subject from a legislative pt>int of view and of Chicago. The Reagan bill contains nothing to soften the inflexible the impropriety of adopting a Procrustean method for the solution of strictness of the prohibition applied everywhere, and it would bear a problem so complex, delicate, and difficult as railway management. heavily on us. _ It llm:!SAGE FROM THE SENATE. is a very strong practical reason to my mind for preferring the Sen­ ate bill which is to be carried out by a commission, that it is a system A messnge from the Senate, by Mr. SYMPSON, one of its clerks, an­ that has been tried and works well in Illinois and many other States. nounced agreement to the report of the committee of conference on It is found to be a. good way of practically dealing with cases of oppres­ the disagreeing votes of the two Houses on the amendments of the Sen- sion by railroads, a prompt, sure means of getting a decision from the 7290 CONGRESSIONAL REOORD-HOUSE. JULY 21,

courts in spite of all t.he law's delay that the ablest lawyers may at­ of the States every proposition, whether of control by commissioners tempt. It is not a system of experiment, but of fact, of experience. or statute, was fought by the roads in the press, at the polls, or in the In various States in this country, in England, in Belgium, and sub­ courts. W. P. Shinn, in an article on the "relations of railways to stantially in Frane followed my remarks I have said, for the transportation of goods and persons, for the regulatioq of the charges of a common carrier on land The Cullom bill enables the poorest man, the tenant as easily as the highways there is no direct power in Congress; that is wholly in the States. • Tich fru·mer or mercantile house, to present his complaint in a plain Near the same time that these arguments were being made here able way and if he has a fair case to set in motion all of 'the machinery of railroad attorneys were insisting before Judges Baxter, Hammond, and the courts with able counsel and without any expense or risk to him­ Key, in the Federal court at Nashville, that a law creating a railroad self, and secure redress for his wrongs as quickly ancl completely as commission for the State of Tennessee to regulate rates in the State the richest. Under the Reagan bill he must take the risk of a lawsuit, was void and a violation of the Constitution of the United States, be­ that may wear him out and beggar him of what little he had. Is it likely c..-.use it was a regulation of commerce between the States. that such men will readily try such a contest? Is it not more likely The argument prevailed with the court, notwithstanding the un­ that these severe provisions of law will be abused by rival interests, doubted fact that that act by its terms dealt alone with rates inside the rich and powerful, to foment and instigate lawsuits to harass competi­ State of Tennessee, and it-.8 findings as to rates were not conclusive on tors, and the law merely made an instrument in the struggles of the the companies, but only prim-a facie correct, in any trial resulting from strong to weaken and exhaust the weaker roads? misunderstandings or differences with them.· There is a softening discretion allowed to the commissioners by the l'llr. Fink, the ablest railroad expert perhaps in the country, stated Cullom bill, and it is the better for it. I have pointed out a striking the position to be that: and beneficial instance where it deeply affects the people of my own All business belongs to ·the railroads that they can get at some profit.. If i~ district. How much better-this is than to fix in advance by"inflexible pays you little, you take little, rather than nothing; that is the principle recog­ law the whole body of rules to govern the most complex business known nized in all commercial transactions; everym\lrchantthatsellsgoods,sellscnll­ to our civilization and themostextensive, involvingtbela1·gestamount coes or other cheap goods at a low profit, or even less than he paid for them, of property and the greatest number of individual interests in the whole and sells silks at a larger profit to make up for the loss on the clleaper goods. world. It is well to have five wise, able, experienced men of reputa­ Mr. Charles E. Perkins, president of the Chicago, Burlington and tion, commanding geneml confidence, clothed with a limited discretion Quincy Railroad, in a letter to the chairman of the select committee in applying and enforcing a law ihat touches every man and every in­ ofthe Senate, SflYS: terest so closely. Railroads may be said to manufacture a commodity for sale, namely, trans­ [Here the hammer felL] port-ation. * * "' They [the railroads) should.stand on precisely the same M:r. O'~ILL, of Pennsylvania. I now yield seven minutes to the ground as that occupied by other commercial ventnres. gentleman from Iowa [Mr. HEPBURN]. · :(, • • * • * • Charging a lower rate for a long haul than for a short haul, or tnaking conces­ Ur. HEPBURN addressed the House. [S.ee Appendix.] sions to largeshippersas against small shipp~rs is really doing business at whole­ Hi E~ROLLED . BILL SIGNED. sale instead of retail. And the attempt ha.s often been made to show that is unjust discrimination. All trade is full of injustice in this sense. A man who Mr. NEECE, from the Committee on Enrolled Bills, 1·eported that buys anything in sma.ll quantities pays more than on~ who buys at whole ale. they had examined ~nd found duly enrolled bill (H. R. 6337) for the • • * It is expedient that shippers and carriers should be left free to make their own bargains. Society should treat railroad tran portation as commerce relief of James D. Wood; when the Speaker signed the same. nd let prices alone. WO~E~'S NATIONAL PRESS ASSOCIATION. In short,. the position taken by the railroad management is summed :Mr. MORRISON submitted the following resolution; which was re­ up in the report of the select committee of the Senate on interstate ferred to the Committee on Rules: commerce as follows (page 183): · Resolved, That the front seat to the right of the reporters' gallery, and in the A railroad corporation has been looked upon by its mnnagers as an associa­ gallery now set apart for the use of ladies, be and is hereby set apart for the tion of individuals engagecl in furnishing and selling of transportation for their exclusive use of the 'Yomcn's National Press Association, subject to the condi­ own advant-age and free to conduct the business in their own way as individual tions and regulations of the rules established by the Committee on Rules. mercantile enterprises are conducted. The hour of 5 o'clock having arrived, the House took a recess unt.it S This position is utterly irreconcilable with the legal status of these o'clock p. m. corporations as C'?mmon carriers. The common law since the time of Sir Matthew Hale has fixed and determined the character and obliga­ EVENING SESSION. tions of those who exercise the business of carrying as a public employ­ The recess h:1ving expired, the House reassembled at 8 o'clockp. In. ment. The House was called to order by Mr. McMILLIN as Speaker p;oo The carrier may stipulate what his freight charges and fares shall be, tempore, who directed the reading of the-following letter: but the law imposes the obligation that they shall be reasonable and not extortionate. Hence, he in fact does not fix the 11-mount charged. HOUSE OF REPRESENT.ATIVES OF THE U~""ITED STATES, Washington, D. 0., July 21,1886. He can only charge what is reasonable, and the law fixes that. I hm·eby desiginate Hon. BENTON McMILLIN to preside as Speaker protem­ I would not, however, have it understood­ pore at the session of the House this evening. • JOHN G. CARLISLE, SpeaTw·. Says Lord Mansfield- Hon. JOHN B. Cr~ ARK. Jr., that carriers are at liberty by law to charge whatever thc.y please; n. carrier is 0/erk of the House of Repl·esentati.res. liable by law to carry everything that is brought to him for a reasonable sum to be paid for the same carriafll:e, and not to extort what he will. INTERSTATE COMMERCE. This is the law to-day. (Redfield, 95; 12 Wallace, 270.) The SPEAKER pro tempore. The House is in session this evening Chief-Justice ~ney, in 5 Howard, 583, sa.ys common carriers exer­ under its special order, for debate only, upon the bill that was under cise a sort of public office aiJ.d have duties to perform in which the public consideration at the hour when the House took a recess, the bill to is interested. regulate commerce. The Supreme Court of the United States has announced the law au­ Ur. HEPBURN. :Mr. Speaker, I reserve the remainder of my time. thoritatively in this matter. Mr. CALDWELL. Mr. Speaker, the agitation of the question of the Iri. Munn vs. Illinois (4 Otto), the court say: control of railroads, whether by State or national authority, has since its The very essence of government has found expression in the ma'xim "Sio origin de-veloped a wonderful change in the opinion of not only the gen­ utere ut alienum non lredas," From this source came the police powers, w h iob, eral public but the railroads themselves. In many and I believe all as was said by Mr. Chief Justice Taney in the license cases (5 How., 583), "are 1886. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 7291 nothing more nor less than the powers of government inherent in eyery sover­ tleman from Pennsylvania [Mr. O'NEILL] that the complaints against eignty, • • • that is to say * * "' the power to govern men and things. Under these powers the Government regnlates the conduct of its citizens one the railroads were unfounded-that the beneficent management of the toward another, and the manner in which each shall use his own property, roads had taken the ground from under every objector. The indict­ when such regulation becomes necessary for the public good, In their exercise ment consists of eighteen counts, as follows: it has been customary from time immemorial in England, and in this country from its first colonization, to regulate ferries, common carries, hackmen, bakers1 THE CAUSES OF COMPLAINT AGAINST THE RAILROAD SYSTEM. millers, wharfingel'!!, inn-keepers, &c., and in so doing to fix a maximum or · The complaints against the railroad system of the United States expressed to charge to be made for services rendered, accommodation furnished, and articles the committ-ee are based upon the following charges: sold. 1. That local rates are unreasonably high compared with through rates. This brings ns to inquire as to the principles upon which this power of regu­ 2. That both local and through rates are unreasonably high at. non-compet­ lation rests, in order that we may determine what is within and what is with­ ing points, either from the absence of competition or in consequence of pooling out its operative effect. Looking then to the common. law, from whence came agreements that restrict its operation. . the right which the Constitution protects, we find that when private property is 3. That rates are established without apparent regard to the actual cost of the "affected with a public interest it ceases to be juris privat~ only." This was service performed, and are based largely on "what the traffic will bear." said by Lord Chief-Justice Hale more than two hundred years ago in his treat­ 4. That unjnsti.fi.able discriminations are constantly made between individuals ise De partibus marts (I Harg. Law Tracts 78), and has been accepted without in the rates charged for like service under similar circumstances. objection as an essential element in the law of property. • 5. That improper discriminations are made between articles of freight and Property does become clothed with a public interest, when used in a manner branches of business of a like chal'acter, and between different quantities of the to make it of public consequence, and affect the community at large. same class of freight. • When, therefore, one devotes his property to a use in which the pul;>lichas an 6. That unreasonable discriminations are made between localities similru·ly interest he in effect grants to the public an interest in that use, and must submit situated. . to be controlled by the public, for the common good, to the extent of the interest 7. That the effect of the prevailing policy of railroad management is, by an he has created. He may withdraw his grant by discontinuing the use, but so elaborate system of secret special rates, rebates, drawbacks, and concessions, long as he maintains the use he must submit to the control. to foster monoply, t-o enrich favored shippers, and to prevent free competition Common carriers exercise a sort of public office, and have duties to perform in many lines of trade in which the item of transportation is an important in which the public is interested. Their business is, therefore, affected with a t.'l.ctor. · public interest within the meaning of the doctrine Lord Hale has so forcibly 8. That such favoritism and secrecy introduce an element of uncertainty into stated. But we need go no further. Enough has already been said to show legitimate business that greatly retards the development of our industries and that when private property is devoted to public use it is subject to public regu­ commerce. . lation. !>. That the secret cutting or rates and the sudden fluctuations that constantly We know that this is a power which may be abused; but that is no argument take place are demoralizing to all business except that of a purely speculative against its existence. For protection against abuses by Legislatures the people chnrncter, and frequently occasion great injustice and heavy losses. must resort to the polls, not to the courts. 10. That, in the absence of national and uniform legislation, the railroads are Not only is it true that railro~ds are subject to regulation and con­ Rble by various· devices to avoid their responsibility as carriers, especially on shipments ovet· more than one road, orf.rom one State to another, and that ship­ trol by law as common carriers in a business affected by a public use, p<'rs iind great d.i.ffi.culty in recovering damages for the loss of property or for but they are also p~blic highways. It is tme that they are to be used inj n1·y thereto. in a particular way, but they are nevertheless highways, and as such J I. That railroads refuse to be bound by their own contracts. and arbitrarily collect large sums in the shape of overcharges in addition to the rates agreed subject to control. upon at the time of shipment. The Supreme· Court of the United States says: 12. That railroads often refuse to recognize or be responsible for the acts of "That railroads, though constructed by private corporations and owned by dishonest agents acting under their authority. . . them, are public highways has been the doctrine of nearly all the courts e>er 13. Tbntthe common la.wfailstoafford aremedyfor such grievances, and that since such conveniences fo.rpassage and transportation ha>e had any existence. in cases of dispute the shipper is compelled to submit to the decision of the rail­ Whether the use of a railroad is a. public or a private one depends in no meas· road manager or pool commissioner, or run the risk of incurring further losses ure upon the question who constructed and owns it. It has never been consid­ by greater discriminations. ered a matter of any importance that the road was built by the agency of a 14. That the differences in the classifications in use in varions parts of the coun­ private corporation. No matter who is the agent, tho action performed is that try, and sometimes for shipments over the same roads in different directions, of the State. Though the ownership is private, the use is public. So tuTDpikes, are a fruitful soluce of misunderstandings, and are often made a. means of extor­ bridges, ferries, and canals, aJ.though made by individuals under public grants, tion. or by companies, are regarded as publici juris. . 15. That a privileged class is 01·eated by the gmnting of passes, and the cost The right to exact tolls or charge freights is granted for a service to the pub­ of tile passenger service is largely increased by the extent of this abuse. lic. The owners may be private companies, but they are compelled to permit 16. That the capitnliza.tion and bonded indebtedness of the roAds largely ex­ the public to use their works in the manner in which such works can be used. ceed lhe actual cost of their construction or their present value, and that un­ It is said that railroads are not public highways per se; that they are only de­ reasonable rates are charged in the efi'ort to pay dividends on watered stock clared such by the decision of the courts, and that they have been declared pub­ and interest on bonds improperly issued. lic only with respect to the power of eminent domain. This is a. mistake. In 17. That railroad corporations have improperly engaged in lines of business their very nature they are high ways. It needed no decision of the court to make entirely distinct from that of transportation, and that undue advantages have them such. (16 Wallace, 694-6.) . been afforded to business enterprises in which railroad officials were interested. 18. That the management of the railroad business is extra>agant nnd waste­ It follows that these corporations are thus on two distinct grounds ful, and that a needless tax is imposed upon the shipping and traveling public indubitably the subjects of the control of Oongress, under its grant of by the unnecessary expenditure of large sums iu the maint-enance of a cosUy powe.r to regulate commerce among the States. And in asserting and force of ~ents engaged in a reckless strife for competiti>e business. exercising the right to tax traffic between the St.ates all it will bear the :Mr. William P. Shinn, in the Railway Review, before quoted ,_ says: raiJroads have in effect usurped the power of Congress to regulate in­ Until recently the railroad companie!l have been hostile to and have earnestly terstate commerce. opposed all legislation upon the subject of regulation of interstate transporta­ tion by the Government, but it is now being recognized by the most enlight­ In support of their discriminations against persons and localities they ened railroad officials that such legislation is necessary, proper, and desirable. are forced to claim to be merchants, and every argument offered in sup­ '.rhe rate wars which have of late years so devastated the finances of raih·oad port of thei.r- right to sell transportation at such rates as they deem companies are all inaugurated and carried on upon interstate traffic. They are detrimental alike to producer, transporter, and consumer; they introduce ele­ proper is in derogation of the common l:tw and destructive of the rights ments of chance in transactions of business which should rest entirely upon of the public, who are bound toavail themselves of their facilities for supply and demand; they encourage speculation in the staples of life, and are transportation. In the face of decision after decision of the courts they generally to be deplored. · Such is the power in the large corporations intrusted to one man, who may ex­ still assert, as we have seen, that it is impossible to subject them to ercise it from pel"Sonal cupidity or for private revenge as well as from laudable control as common carriers on a public highway without destroying their motives, in the interest of his corporation, that ouly the General Government, property and contract rights. which can control all, can afford any remedy or relief. · Upon the other hand, praducersand shippers find themselves shutout of their Mr. Justice Johnson, in Gibbons vs. Ogden (9Wheaton), says: legitimate markets because some more favored shipper or locality is secretly Commerce, in its simple1;t signification, means an exchange of goods; but in gh~en rates so much lower as to enable the latter to monopolize the traffic, while the advancement of society labor, transportation, intelligence, care, and the the former has only recourse to the courts, always slow and frequently uncer­ various mediums of exchange become commodities and enter into commerce; tain. the subject, the vehicle, the agent, and tlleir various operations become the ob· In the interest of producer, transporter, and consumer, governmental regula­ jects of commercial regulation. . tion of int-erstate traffic is necessary and desirable. In the Reading Railroad Company1:s. Pennsylvania (15 Wallace) the This is a confession written by a friend of railroads. They ha>e court held that- failed to regulate o:r govern in this field, which they invaded and held Beyond all question the tmnsportation of freights or of the subjects of comme1·ce by usurpation or the failure of Congress to asserti1scontrol. But they for the purpose of exchange or sale is a constituent of commerce itself. This say yon must not :regulate us by statute. The common law and State has never been doubted, a.nd probably the transportation of articles of trade from one State to another wns the prominent idea in the minds of the framers statutes declaratmy of the common law have failed to give relief: of the Constitution when to Congress was committed the power to regulate Why is this so? Because under the existing system the burden of commerce among the several States. proof is upon the plaintiff to establish that the rate is unreasonable or In Mobile vs. Kimball (102 U.S.) the power of Congress to regulate the discrimination unjust, and the sources of information upon these commerce is declared ''to be without limitation. It authorizes Con­ issues are in the hands of and under the control of the defendant, locked gress to prescribe the conditions upon which commerce in all its forms up in his books and in the memory of his agents and his experts. shall be conducted." * * * It is under an act of Congress that the Hence the hesitation of a man solitary and alone to sue a great cor­ railroads chartered by the different States connect with the roads of poration and endure the "law's delay and insolence of office" in the other States so as to form continuous lines. (Act of July 15, 1866.) vain effort to obtain redress for the countless wrongs included in the In the absence of Congressional action in this matter the railroads have Senate's bill. of indictment and the confession of friends. attempted to regulate the commerce of the country in their owu way, .And when a law is proposed like the Reagan bill, declaring what is and still shrink from Congressional control. In the report of the Select right and prohibiting what is wrong; opening the courts of the -venue Committee of the Senate on Interstate Commerce the indictment against of supposed wrongs; providing for access to books and papers of the them is drawn by no unfriendly hand and upon a full and patient in­ railroad corporations remedying as far !1S may be those things which vestigation and survey of the whole field. have rendered the common-law remedies up to this ~teineffectualand And I read this in exumso, because it has been stated here by the gen- useless, the railroads exhaust themselves with !age and exclamation 7292 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. · JULY 21,

and implore the Congress of the United States to enact for their benefit oou1d prevent their giving "preferences." But it could not compel a company to comply with special acts or special provisions of its charter. This is a. serious a special-class legislation in the shape of a commissioner to stand be­ difficulty, because the question of proper facilities was clos~ly connected with tween them and justice, to legalize their pooling and their unjust· dis­ charter requirements, and the railroad could almost any:where raise the point criminations and their iniquitous loading of their short-haul customers of want of jurisdiction. Nor could it enforce its decrees. Passive resistance of the railroads and jeal­ with the shortcomings of the long-haul, or the robbery of intermediate ousy on the part of the old established courts combined to produce this effect. people to make good the loss of reckless competitive efforts to over- · For instance, under the act of 1854, if the railways refused to comply with the reach or destroy rivals at competitive terminal points. decisions of the co-:!'!rt of common pleas, they were liable to a. fine of $1,000 tor every day's delay. The London, Chatham and Dover Railway refused to comply Where is the constitutional delicacy or chartered sacredness of these with one of the commission's decisions, and claimed that they were not liable to great corporations that they should not submit to the rule of the prin­ any such fine, although all the powers of the court of common pleas. under the ciples of the common law whether by the courts or by a commission? act of 1854, had been transferred to the railway commission by the act of 1873. The court of exchequer actually sustained the railroad; n.nd it was not until They have been the pets of States, the receiver.:; of prodigal bounty! 1878 that by a. decision of the Queen's bench the railway commission really had National and State aid have been given without stint. Bonds have the power to do anything if a company chose to disregard its orders. been showered along their track like "leaves in Valombrosa." They The injunctions of the commissio~ at best only affect the future; for any· retnedy for the past there must be a new complaint and trial before a. regular have been armed with the State's right of eminent domain and her writ court. And so it often happens that a railroad, after exhausting all its means of ad quod t(amnum to condemn private property to their use upon pay­ resistance, obeys the decision of the commission in reference to one particular ment of just compensation. They were inaugurated with the shouts station without taking any not.ice of it at other sta.tions where the same prin­ ciple is involved. Thus, in the case of the mauure traffic of Aberdeen, after long of a generous people, and sustained in their splendid success in de­ litigation, the rate was decided to be illegal. The railroad then reduced its veloping and building up the country; but by reckless disregard of Aberdeen rates, but continued its old schedule of charges at other points on i~ popular and Jegal rights and their obligations as common carriers they route where there were not organized interests strong enough to make a. fight. On the face of the act of 1873 the decisions of the commission, as to what were have come under the ban of a majority of the whole people of the questions of fact or questions of law, appeared to be final. But by writ of man­ country. damus from a. court of appeal the decision on this point could be at once taken Like prodigals they have thrown away the good opinion of their ben­ out of the bands of the commission by compelling them "to state a case," which could then be made the subject of action in the higher court. So this important efactors, th~ people. . The Senate committee says, page 191: '• Univen5al power was made of no effect. complaint bas been made to the committee as to the discriminations (2) Complaints before the commission are nQt.quite so slow or costly as they commonly practiced against places and ·as to the conspicuous discrep­ were before the courts, but they are bad enough to pre\"ent most men from un­ dertaking them. Sir Frederick Peel himself admits that the expense frightens ancies between wbat are usually termed 'local' rates and what are people away from making complaints. But this is by no means the worst. The known as 'through' rates.'' testimony before the Parliamentary committee of 1881-'82 is full of matter to Are the American people engaged in one universal conspiracy against startle those who argue that because there are few complaints before the com­ mission there are few men ·that have grieva.nces. Men have good reason to the poor innocent and persecuted railroads? No, Mr. Speaker. What think twice before they enter a complaint. everybody that knows you says about you is true. But our friends of In the Aberdeen manu1·e case. already referred to, the Aberdeen men, success· the minority are alarmed for the railroads, and deprecate the laying ful nt every point, lost more money than they gained. Every important case is so persistently appealed that the original promptness or cheapness of railway down of any "cast-iron" rules for the regulation of this enormous co111mission practice counts for nothing. But the· indirect resultt:~ are yet worse. traffic, "unless it should he interfered with and its prosperity vitally A complainant is a marked man, and the commission can not protect him against affected." No man in America wishes to harm these roads. But as the vengeance of the railroads. Rufus Choate long since said, the ''railroads were made for the people, The railroads know that if they ca.n not control the commission the not the people for the railroads.'' ehances are that it will be a greater failure here than in England. The gentlemen want india-rubber rules for these ,monopolies. Seeing Upon the commissioners here in Washington will be focalized the head­ that they must give up their coveted domination over every interest in lights of all the railroads in the Union, with their command ov-er the their own selfish and ungrateful abuse of power, seeing· that the con­ facts,·and their expert knowledge, n.nd without indulging in degrading trol of interstate commerce in the interest of the people was to come, suspicions of the venality of men, it would be next to impossible tor such in some shape, they with wily stratagem "stooped to conquer." The a tribunal not to be unduly influenced by the superior skill of fence and cry that they will be ruined is the cry of a spoiled child or a selfish facility of massing facts upon them that .the railroaru would possess. tyrant who sees his sway overcome and controlled by a. power for the But, if these conclusions are not warranted, certainly a commission right. would be onerated with the almost impossible task of taking care of It would he singular if in this new field of legislation any law could and deciding justly all the disputes of a. country whose area is many be passed that would be perfect. England has passed many hundred times that of Great Britain. statutes in the abortive attempt to regulate these ma.tters, and the We have invested in railroads £1,190,000,000 to Great Britain'o greatest failure of all the thirty-three hundJ:ed bas been her commission. £7i0, 000,000. How would it be p0ssible for an individual or an obscure Gentlemen laud the railroad commission in England, laud it in Bel­ and remote town to come hundreds and thousands of miles to this giaal, laud it everywhere. Let us see what Mr. Hadley, in his work city for redress. And then, when would the decrees of this commis­ o1l Jlailroad Transportation, says on· the subject: sion ever be enforced? All the power, money, and skill of the com­ 'Ve lu1.ve seen what were the events which led to the passage of the regulation bined railioad wealth would be exerted to delay and defeat any ob­ at' mil ways act in 1873. The commission appointed under that act was to consist noxiou~ finding. oftbree members; 'nch. They were to decide all questions arising under the act of 1854, and subsequent acts connected with it. They were further em­ rebates. They are not in 1avor of the provision against greater charge powered to nrbit111te between railroads in a variety of cases; to compel compa· for the short haul than the long. They " diifer from the majority as nies to make tht"Ough rates which should conform to the intention of the act of to pooling," believing its" absolute prohibition is unnecessary," and ex­ 1854; to secure publicity o( rates; to decide what constitutes a proper terminal charge, and some other less important matters. On questions of fact their de­ tol the past experience in railway transportation which proves the pool cision was to be final; on questions of law it was to be subject to appeal. The to be the nearest (sic) and fairest device yet used to place shippers on rnil.wny commissioners themselves were to determine what were questions of an equality." They approach the subject of publicity of rates as if fact and what were questions of law. Subsequent nets have made but slight changes in these powers. · they trod on eggs, and whisper "tbata ca.refully digested section might The commission consisted of able men-Sir Frederick Peel, Mr. Price, for­ be incorporated in the law to meet this point," and after all suggest a merly of the .Midland Railway, and 1\fr. Macnamara.; the last named died in 1877 commission. What is the use of anything from this minority report? and was succeeded by Mr. A.. E. Miller. They went to work with energy, and in a spirit which promised to make the experiment o. signal success. And it It negatives the Senate report and turns it back and shuts it6 eyes on was at first supposed to be such a. success. People judged by the reports of the facts there arrayed in support of the terrible charges contained in the commission itself: and they were the more prone to believe .the reports be­ the indictment they prefer againSt railroad mism:wagement, discrimi­ cause it was so desirable to find an easy solution of perplexing questions o1 railroad policy. l\1r. Adams, writing in 1878, said, "The mere fact that thE nations and oppression. tribunal is there; that a. machinery does exist for the prompt 1\>nd final decision SHORT HAUL AND LO:.'l"G llAUL. of that class of questions, puts an end to them. They no longer e:rist." Thai l'epresented the general public opinion on the subject at the time; it represent! It is said that tbe short and long haul clause of the bill will result the general impression in America down to the present time. in driving the railroads to devoting their attention to loca.l rate and In 1878, the very year when Mr. Adams wrote, the original term of the com­ refuse through freights; that this will cut the great interests of cbe mission expired. People supposed that it would be made permanent. Instead of that the renewals have been for much shorter periods, leaving the commis· West off from markets, or increase the tbrough-fTeight rates. Except sioners a. precarious tt:nure, and showing dissatisfaction somewhere. in rate wars it is a mistake to say that railroads carry through freights A. parliamentary investigation on railroad ratesin188l-'82showed thegrounde at less than cost. of transportation. Competition simply reduces the of di!!satisfaction only too clearly. The testimony revealed a state of things a. I· most unsuspected by the general public, and giving an entirely different explana­ profit on through rates to the minimum, when competition is not tion of the fact that the commissioners had so few cases to deal with. '.rbe sul>­ superseded by combination, n.nd it is a gross mi statement to say that stl\nce is that the powerof the commission satisfies nobody. It has power enough the railroads now carry through long-haul freights at less than cost ot to annoy the railroads, and not power enough to help the public efficiently. Tho railway commission was a court, not an executive body, but to all intents transportation. It is said to justify extorting from intermediate points and purposes a court oflaw. A.nd in establishing this new court, in addition to more than is just; or, in other words, railroads justify extortion on local those already existing, Parliament had two ends in view: (1) to haven. tribunal rates by alleging it is necessary to pay for cut-throat competition wars which would and could net when others would or could not. (2) To avoid the expense, delay, and vexation incident to litigation under the old system. Neither on through rates. As to the proviso to exempt any railroau from the end was well fulfilled. long and short haul section the Louisville Conrier-.Jonrual, wbieh, a."! (1) The commission could notact, partly f1·om want of jurisdiction, partly from I understand it, is opposed to control of railroads by the Beaciau or want of executive power. Its jurisdiction did not cover by any means the whole ground. The provisions about terminals, arbitration, working agree­ Cullom bill, says: ments, &c., amounted to very little. Its real power was under the act of 1854. This section, however, is murdered without cler~y by the provi o ·which put~ It could under this act require companies to furnish" proper facilities," and it itwitlljn the power of the proposed railroad ~ommissiou lu exempt any railruad 1886. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 7293 whatever from the control of the whole long and short haul section. This pro­ as the Reagan bill, which passed this body but failed of passage in the viso would obviously give the commission the license of a despotic and irrespon­ sible junto, to make and unmake profits for any line whatever, to establish dis­ other branch of Congress. crimination ruinous to railroads, cities, and agricultural communities, and to Reflection and study since have only strengthened me in the opinions levy blackmail or booty on a gigantic scale upon any railroad or water carrier I then formed. in the United States. It would, in fact, operate to place the commerce of all sections of the country under the mercy and subject to the rapacity or the whims But still with these opinions :firmly :fixed, I would not trespass upon CJf a solitary central junto, and might also be thus established in control of the time with which each day is becoming more and more precious and stock market. It would seem that t.his fatal addition te him, even that it will cost more to carry a few miles than many miles. The though he may be reasonably young in years and vigorous in health; handling is the same in either case, but the wear and tear upon the or if he should live to see its final conclusion, he will have passed machinery and track and the expense in fuel is necessarily greater for through years of trouble and vexation, frittered away much >aluable the many than the few miles. time, and incurred losses not computable· by any human rule. Why, I understand, in fact it was so stated to the committee, that A xecovery of actual or direct damages is no compensation to him this system of discrimination is carried to such an extent that in some for all that he will have borne, all that he will have lost, all that he instances in the transportation of coal d.ifferences are made on account will have expended, and all that he will have suffered in the vindication of the purposes for which the coal is to be used. If nsed by some of his rights, the redress of his wrongs, and the prosecution of a liti~­ favored enterprise then cheap rates are given; if, however, the enter­ tion not of his seeking, not of his fault, but provoked by a monopoly prise does not have the smiles of the powers that be, high rates are the which in the arrogance of its power and the cupidity of its nature rode order. phretonlike over personal rights, crushing them under its ponderous Now, sir, under this state of things what remedy have the business wheels. interests of the country, what redress have agriculture, manufactures, Sir, this is a land where courage dwells and bravery li.-es. Its his­ and commerce, the three pillars of our prosperity, unless the strong tory shines with records of heroism; ita tablets.sparkle with deeds of hand of our National Legislature shall be laid upon these monopolies, valor. On land and Sea its fiag floats in the breezes of courage, valor, and the decree go forth under the great seal of this Government pre­ and heroism, filling every soul with national pride. scribing limits beyond which they shall not go, and laying down rules But as much as I admire the valor, courage, and heroism which which they must regard? would lead to the bayonet point or cannon mouth in thevindicationof We hear protests from all these corporations against what they term our national honor, I admire almost as much the moral courage and "cast-iron roles." We will probably hear the term more than once in heroism of he who in the vindication of personal rights and the re­ this discussion. dress of personal wrongs engages in a combat with a railroad corpora­ This is just what the country demands, strong, unyielding, inflexi­ tion. There is genuine courage, there is true heroism in the act, for ble rules; rules with no double meaning, subject to no two construc­ unequal is the contest, doubtful the result, however just the cause. tions; rules so plain that the most ordinary mind may comprehend and But, Mr. Speaker, while I entertain these views as to the inadequacy the humble man understand them; rules so clearly defined that it will of the measure of damages fixed for a violation of the provisions of th:is require no court or other tribunal to construe them. bill, I shall not seek to amend this section, being willing to give the In this section, in my opinion, will be found all that may be required railroad companies an opportunity to show their regard for the right to gi •e protection against the short and long haul system of imposition. and respect for the law, and. if they do this, then all will be well; if not, I shall trust to another, Congress to increase the measure of dam­ SCHEDULES MUST BE POSTED. ages. The :fifth section provides for the posting up of schedules on all roads, Next follows the penal-punishment section. It reaches the indi­ setting forth, first, the ditlerent kinds and classes of property to be car­ vidual, whether a director, receiver, lessee, or agent in his individual ried; second, the different places between which such property shall be capacity, and makes him amenable to an indictment as for a misde­ carried; third, the rates of freight and prices of carriage between such meanor, and liable to a. fine of not exceeding $2,000 for any willful viola- . places and for all services connected with the receiving, delivery, load­ tion by commission or omission directly, or aiding or abetting therein. ing, unloading, storing, or hauling of the same. And the accounts for This section, in my opinion, will go much further in securing adher­ such services sruill show what part of the charges :is for transportation, ence to the law than the civil remedy given. It strikes not at the cor­ and what part for loading, unloading, and other terminal facilities. poration, but at the persons engaged in conducting the corporate busi­ The e schedules shall be printed in plain, large type, and shall be kept ness. The civil remedy will rarely be resorted to by a small shipper plainly posted for public i.m>pection in at least two places in every de­ or poor man, for he will have to engage in years of litigation, as I have pot where freights are received or delivered. They shall be posted at said, meeting corporate power single handed, strength with weakness, least five days before they shaJ.l go into effect, and it shall be unlawful wealth with poverty. The seventh section will remain virtually a dead to charge more than schedule rates. letter upon the statute-books so far as he is concerned, but he will find These, I think, are the leading features of this section, and in them his protection in the penal provisions. The courts of the United States are embodied notice to all shippers as to what they are to pay upon will be thrown open, and the grand juri~ will indict and the petty any given commodity or quantity. It will prevent fluctuating rates­ juries punish the individual official or employe who willfully violates high rates to-day, low rates to-morrow, or vice versa-arid the business the law, aids or abetS in its violation, or suffers it to be violated. of the country will be conducted with absolute knowledge as to the I have now referred to the main and most important features of this cost of transportation, and purchases and sales can. be made and agree­ bill. I shall vote for it as an entirety and against any amendment which ments entered into without speculating as to the cost of reaching market. may tend to weaken its force or lesson its efficiency. Its pa-ssage will lead, I trust, t-o the enactment of similar statutes by the Legislatures DAMAGES FOR VIOLATIONS OF ACT. of the States respecting their internal commerce, and the good work Next follow the prohibitory clauses and the measures of damages for begun here I hope will spread like a blanket over the States and its any violation of the act; and. if, sir, I were to criticise adversely any healthful influence will be felt in every section and lor..ality. The wide.. portion of this bill 111Y criticism would be confined to these clauses. spreading importance of this measure can not be magnified, and I would That criticism would be based upon the fad that for any violation only wish, sir, for no higher encomiums than will be bestowed by the millions actual damages sus~ined can be awarded. who to-day are suffering under the wrongs of which this bill treat-,; In the case of the violation of a simple contract actual damages, of upon tho distinguished chairman of the Committee on Commerce [Mr. course, constitute the measure of recovery. In simple contra-cts par­ REAGAN], from whose brain the bill originated, and who has labored ties generally act at arm's length. They stand on an equal footing; for its passage with a perse.-erance almost akin to that of Hannibal 7296 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. JULY 21, crossing the Alps -or of Kepler calculating the laws of planetary motion . [During the delivery of the foregoing remarks the following proceed­ Its enactment into a law will add fresh laurels to his already decked ings took place: brow and stand upon the statute-books of the nation to do honor to hi The SPEAKER pro tempqre (at 9 o'clock p. m.). The time of the name and fame. • gentleman has expired. Mr. Speaker, I shaH not detain the House in presenting my objec­ Ur. O'FERRALL. I ask to be allowed ten minutes more. tions to the Senate. bill. In favoring the House bill I have necessarily Mr. REAGAN. Mr. Speaker, I wish to have an understanding as outlined my objections to the substitutes, for they are directly antip9dal. to the use of the remaining time. We have an hour and a half on each I want, however, to emphasize one objection, and that is to the com­ side. Whatever remains of the hour and a half on this side after the mission idea, which is the veiy bed-rock of the substitute. Speaking remarks of the gentleman from Virginia [Mr. O'FERR.ALL] are con­ with due deference, I must say that in my judgment a more trouble­ cluded I shall claim the right to use in concluding the debate, and I some and intricate and inefficient piece of legal machinery was never trust that the·gentleman from Virginia will be permitted to occupy a.s suggested. If the most fertile minds in either House of Congress could much more of the time on this side as he desires. have been employed to devise means to retard, embarrass, mystify, .Mr. DUNHAM. I suggest that we be allowed to occupy an hour on hinder, and delay the redress of wrongs and the punishment of violn.­ this side, and that then the other side use itB remaining half hour. tions of law they could not in my opinion have succeeded better than Mr. REAGAN. I thinl' the gentleman from Virginia had better go the distinguished framer of the Senate bi1l. It is the very thing the on DOW. railroads want, since they are convinced that Congress intends to act Mr. DUNHAM. All right. upon the subject of regulating interstate commerce, for their favorite Mr. O'FERRALL resumed and concluded his remarks.] mode of warfare is to delay, embarrass, and hinder. Mr. REAGAN. Mr. Speaker, I reserve the remaining twenty min.. I want no commission . The Congr~ of the United States is the utes to close the debate. commission created by the people for the enactment of laws, and the Mr. DUNHAM. Mr. Speaker, I yield twenty minutes of my time courts of the country the tribunals for their enforcement. to the gentleman from Iowa. [Mr. HEPBURN]. We have had commissions of various kinds within the last few years, :Mr. HEPBURN addressed the House. [See Appendix.] and what good have they done? Absolutely none; but responsibilities Mr. DUNHAM addressed the House. [See Appendix.]' have been shirked by their creation. Mr. ROWELL addressed the House. [See Appendix.] Let those who have been accredited as the Tepresentatives of the peo­ Mr. DUNHAM. I yield now for five minutes to the gentleman from ple liere prove themselves equal to the high duties th~y have assumed. Pennsylvania [Mr. BROWN]. Let them not stand appalled and paralyzed in the face of corporate Mr. BROWN, of Pennsylvania. Mr. Speaker, I indorse most heart­ power; let them give the relief demanded, assume responsibilities, and ily all the gentleman from Illinois [Mr. ROWELL] ha."'just said. It not throw them off upon a commission that will be responsible to no­ seems to me he has demonstrated beyond question that the remedy that body. is incorporated in the Senate bill is far superior in aU the essentials • I have now, Mr. Speaker, about concluded my Temarks; they have necessary to success. been directed against corporations and not against individuals. ·There I have been wondering, :Mr. Speaker, since this bill came up to-day, are many gentlemen prominent even in railroad circles who will rejoice how long the people would be satisfied with talk and with promises. with the people over the passage of this bill; 1or they have recognized They have waited a long time for legislation on this subject. I came the wrongs which have been inflicted, but have been J>Owerless to pre- here at the beginning of the Forty-eighth Congress enthusiastic on this · vent them. We have a country which is the marvel of the world; it is question of giving the people some remedy as against what is called the sublime in its beauty, grand·in its extent, and great in its resources. exactions of the railroad corporations. I have sometimes thought there . The Old World looks with amazement up~m our broad domain and is a great deal said not strictly true against railroads, but I have known fertile fields, our inexhaustible supply of mineral wealth, our rivers for a long time there was need of some remedy for actual wrongs upon upon who e bosoms ten times the navies of the world might float and the people. I came here with the purpose of supporting the gentleman whose waters could drive the machinery of the globe without exhauS+..,... from Texas [Mr. REAGAN] in his attempt to pass a law in this behalf. ing a tithe of their power, our railroads linking the hills of Maine with I waited during the first session of the Forty-eighth Congress for the the plains of Texas and traversing the sections from where the sun gentleman to call up his bill, but all in vain. At the beginning of the awakens our people with his first warm morning kiss to where with second session of that Congress he brought forth his bill. We all know his last rays he bids the world good-night. We all love our country that it did not become a law. The present session has nearly run its and feel the glowings of national pride, and we should all seek to pro­ eight months' course, and now in the closing hours of the session this mote its growth and add to its prosperity and happiness. We should bill which came from the Senate in the early days of May is ta.ken up cultivate broad and liberal views, know no section, build up no locality for action. Can the people be deceived into the belief that this delay was at the expense of another, oppress no community to prosper its neigh­ unavoidable or accidental? • bor and discriminate in favor of no class for the benefit of another. Gentlemen on the other side say they have no faith in the honesty That is the spirit of this bill, and I want to see the Government write of a commission. I submit if there is not some danger of the people over the door of every railroad office in this land: No discrimination, coming to the conclusion there is no faith to be placed in the United no combination, no unreasonable charges, no favored classes; equal States Con·gress. I make no charges of bad faith, but it appears to me rights to all, special privileges to none. that if the gentleman should sit down with the purpose of devising a This is true democracy, and the Democratic party having secured plan to defeat legislation in the Forty-ninth Congress on this question control of the administration of this Government in the election of a he could not succeed better than he is likely to do by the course he has Chief Magistrate, after many years of struggle, through tbe strength of taken here. its principles, stands forth to-day in the full blaze of these principles . There is but little difference beyond pride of .opinion between the Sen­ . Let it be true to its history and faithful to its pledges and remove op­ ate bill and the Honse bill brought forward here, the main difference pression from the shouldersofthepeople, whether it be imposed bythe being the remedy for the enforcement of the provisions of the bjlls. I hand of railroad monopolies or by the masked hand of a high protec­ have no time to go into that question, and will only say my convictions tive tari.ff, by either or by both. Never since the bells pealed forth the are clearly with the commission plan. The House amendments are glad tidings of American independence has any party ever had a better simply the common law emphasized by statutes which will threaten oportunity to rally· to its standard the people and intrench itself in but are too cumbersome to be practical and too expensive to bring relief popular esteem than the Democratic party bas at this hour. to the class of people who need relief. Oppressed by monopolies, weighted down by monopolistic exactions, I can do no more than to say that the gentleman from Illinois has dem­ their energies burdened most heavily, their sweat and toil taxed most onstrated beyond question that the remedy sought in the Senate bill grievously for the benefit of task-mast-ers, the people are looking, anxi­ is far more practical and likely to be much mor-e effective than that ously looking, to this administration for relief. Will it .come? Will which is the pet theory, and the only one which the gentleman from popular expectation be realized? I trnst it may. But if relief should Texas will permit. He seems bent on securing his exact remedy or not come, if popular ex'pectation should not be realized, then let the defeating all remedy whatsoever. And what is to bethe'outcome? We Democratic party so act as to throw t;he responsibility for the failure are to have the experience of the Forty-eighth Congress repeated in the upon its political party antagonist, which rests now under popular con­ experience of the Forty-ninth. The bill is not to become a law; and the demnation. gentleman from Texas is to return to Texas; preceded by his speeches, all If this bill is to be defeated and a reduction of tariff burdens is to telling a story of his usual Herculean efforts to curb the rapacity of rail­ fail, let not the blame be laid at the door of the party on this side of roads, and the gentleman from Virginia to his home in the Shenandoah this House, but cast it at the feet of the party on the other aide and let Valley and to tell the people there through his speech what magnifi· that party face the indignation of a long-oppressed and outraged people. cent words he has uttered and promises made in their behalf, and to - I trust, M.r. Speaker, that this all-important measure will become a confess, alas, that he never was privileged to vote upon the final pas­ law, and that it will mark the commencement of an era of Democratic sage of the interstate-commerce act. That is not what I want. If the refonn, and that like wave upon wave it will spread until every abuse bill the Senate offered us early in the session is not perfect, there is of power and every oppression of the people by monopolies of whatso­ another session of the Congress to come, in which its provisions can be ever kind may be bound and prevented by the hand and interposition amended and its imperfections made into perfections, and all the skill of the Government, to which the people naturally turn for relief and and ingenuity of the gentleman from Texas and the gentleman from redress. [Great applause.] Virginia can be brought forward in that behalf. 1886. CONGRESSIONAL R,ECORD-HOUSE. 7297

Why, sir, it seems to me now from the utternnccs of this evening ject ably, as he dlsctr es all subject , asked what rea on th-ere was for that it is just a question whether the gentleman's bill,, which he bas desiring: to pass the House bill, and the gentleman from Illinois [Ur. been nursing for eleven long years all in vain, shall be the bill passed RowELL] who bas just spoken, stated that he would prefer no hill to or whether it shall be the bill which has come from the other end of the House bill. l\fr. Speaker, there are a few things that ought never the Capitol bearing another gentleman'.s name attached thereto. If to be forgotten in discussing tbi subject. The Honse hill is new in that is what we are here for, if we are here to skirmish for personal many of its features. . position and to kill all anti-discrimination legislation unless it bears I admit and belie•e that no bill of the same character has heretofore the name of the gentleman from Texas, the sooner we adjourn the been prese~t.ed to a legisbti>e body anywhere in the world. I claim better. Before doing so, -however, I am determined the country shall that for it. Wb~t does it contain? First, it declares that all charges· understand the farce being played here session after session of the Con~ shall be reasonable. That is o~e of t.!!e '' il'on-clad '' p1·o\isions that gress. The gentleman must not say I charge him with insincerity; I gentleman find in this bill. 'Who can gainsay that proposition? What disclaim any such purpose. I have a 1ight, howe-ver, to refer to facts, honest man will controvert it? Next, the bill says there shall be no and leave him to reconcile his course with what he may conceive to be rebates, no drawbacks, no secret dealings by which one man or set of his duty. The Senate bill is he1·e demanding action at our hands. It men may be swindled Jot the benefit ot· another man or another set of has been here waiting that action for two months. I grant you it is men. It provides means by which publicity shall be given to the action not perfect; neither is the substitute proposed. It is manifestly the of the raill'oad companies and by which justice shall be meted out alike best to be had. This i~ the last chance for the exercise of a little to tbe rich and the poor, the exalted and the bumble. What is wrong statesmanship. The gentleman can pass this bill any day be will. Its in that? Who dares controvert its justice? Next, it says that more defeat must therefore be charged to him and those who act with him. shall not be cha1-ged for hauling a given amount and kind of property [Here the hammer fell.] a shorter than a longer distance, the shorter being embraced in the ~Ir. REAGA.L'f. ~Ir. Speaker, if no other gentleman on that side de­ longer. sires to be beard to-night I shall ask the attention of t-he House for a The Honse has heard el:l.horate arguments this e...-ening, which I ba>e few moments, to answer some suggestions made in this debate. beard repeated over and oYer for ten years, to demonstrate that it is It has been a source of regret to me all the e\ening to hear the q ues­ honest and right to charge one man $25 for hauling a car-load of freight tion of my own personality introduced into the d~scussion of this great from Chicago to New York and at the sametimetochargeanotherman measure. A measure, sir, which involves the interests of sixty million $100 for hauling a like car-load frol!l. Pittsburgh to New York. Now, of people, which affects property of corporations of the nominal value sir, there is not genius, ability, plausibility, nor eloquence enough in of 7,000,000,000, which transport fifteen .thousand millions of inter­ all the· hired talent of the railro:td corporations to convince an honest st.'l.te property annually, a question which affects the rights of all of m.an that that is right. What is that provision of the bill? We have these people and the Yalues of all of their property, such a question been told this evening that it would work unjust discrimination. Two should never be affected. by the consideration of the hopes, the fears, gentlemen from Illinois ha,·e said that. How unjust? If the railroads or the aspirations of any single individual. And it would be a source mulling, for inst..'lDce, from Chimgo to New York .are told, "You may of profound regret to me to believe that I should stand in the way, or charge to way stations along the route as much as you charge between that my poor name honld stand in the way, of ~be consideration of n. yonrterminal points, but you shall not cbat·gemore," what is the wrong? just and necessary measure of great public importance ancl public Who is injured'> goop. . It is the short-haul man that is discriminated. against because be The gentlemen who lu.n-e discu cd this subject this e\ening have all may, in that cYent, be required to ply as mncb as the long-haul man; been in favor of raill'oad regulation, so far as it relates to interstate but the bill says that he shall not be required to pay more. If he is commerce, by Congress. It is ·within your memory, Mr. Speaker, when compelled to pay more, what is the result? It is that the railroads, to they entertailled other views. It has not been long that they have all secure f1·eight at a competing point, may haul from that point at rates been in favor of regulations like this. For six or seven weary years I below what will pay, and if they do that and lose upon the transaction fought the battle against railroad corporations, their counsel and their they claim the right to charge the people at the way-stations enough officers, struggling to defeat any possible legislation upon the subject more than should. he charged for hauling their freight to make np the arid denying the power of Congress over it. At last the arguments loss of revenue from the nndercbai·gc upon the freight hauled between and appeals for a measure of justice to the American people, and the the terminal points. ls that right? What is the effect of it? If they awakening by them to their own interest, have been heard by the Con­ be permitted to charge for hauling to intermediate stations more than gress of the United States, and by consent now that legislation which they charge shippers at the terminal point-remember, it is not more eleven years ago I said was necessary is by their acknowledgment nec­ per ton per mile, but more in the nggregate for a giYen amount or kind essary. That, at least, is some gratification to me. It ought to be some of freight-if, I say, they be permitted to charge shippers at way-sta­ gratification to this country that 1:\>t last the legislators of this country tions more than they charge shippers at the terminal points, then they have come to understand themselves the necessity for such legislation. ba...-e the power·t1, 1orce the-manufacturing of the country from the The Senate during its last session appointed a committee to collect . towns and villages and neighborhoods where ~iving is cheap and }lealth information upon the subject. That committee industriously and is good, to the trade centers where there are .competing roads, and the with great ability collected a vast amount of >aluable information power to.enrich tbo eat these centers by impo>erishin~ the people at of which we should avail ourselves. Based upon that information the the cities, towns, and communities at intermediate points. What more? Senate haYe passed a bill. I have, and on a former occasion to-day, If they can charge more to shippers at U1e intermediate places than to shown the contrast between the provisions of the Senate bill and the those at the terminal points, they can thereby increase the value of the House bill. :My hope is, sir, whether it be the one or the other that real estate around the centers where there is competition and reduce the is to be adopted, that in the short remaining days of. this eession we Yalue of land, the Yalue of. labor, the ...-alue of everything that makes are to reach at last practical legislation and practical results upon this up the comforts of 1ife at e\·cry intermediate point between the termi­ question; and I trust in reaching that result, without reference to the nal stations. authorship of bills, that we shall secure the enactment by Congress of I say to you, gentlemen, that there is not a go'vernment on earth this great principle of justice which commands the approbation of all w bose administration is based upon the princi pies of justice that would disinterested people and which in the end will be as beneficial to the dare to exercise such a power. 'rhe Government of the United States 1'Uilroad companies as to the people at large. would not and coulclnotdo it, No State in this Union would or could I am a little surprised to see that gentlemen ba e their advocacy of do it. Yet it is claimed for these railroad corporations that they may the Senate bill upon the fact that it came from the Senate, and is a bill do what neither the Federal Government nor the State governments which has passed one Honse. Do gentlemen forget that in the Forty­ would do or dare attempt to do! That is not all. We sa~n this bill fifth Congress a bill passed this House, I mean the House bill now be­ that the railroad companies shall post up their schedules of rates so that fore us, butwith some sligbtmodifications, and byadecided majority? the citizen may know how much is to be charged, so that the r11ilroad That bill was sen~ to the Senate and fell upon the leaden ears of that companies may be bound by their charges, and can not in litigation in­ body. They did not seem to think legislution was neccessary. Is it troduce expert witnesses to deceive and befog ju!'ies by the considera­ forgotten that in the Forty-eighth Congress this bill, slightly m(J(lliied, tion of what they call ''all the element<; which enter into the considera­ again passed with an increased majority, and went to the Senate, and tion of fair and reasonable mtes. '' that the Senate then prepared a substitute for it which, with all l'e­ Besides that, it is a measure which shows the people what they have spect to· that body, fell far short of meeting the nece sities for legisla- to pay and prevent discrimination by requiring the posting up of rates. tion on this subject? . It becomes :1 measure of evidence; it sa\"'es expense in litigation; it pro­ But their investigations of the last year have enabled them to make motes the ends ofjustice. The Senatehillpretendstodo·this, butdoes a very decided improvement in the bill of this year, and that leads to not, j ost as it pretends to establish a rule with reference to the long ancl the hope that they will sufficiently 1mderstand the interest and thede­ short haul, while in fact it presents a meaningless section, a section

_sires ofthe country, and be sufficiently obedientto the will ofthepeo­ which I defy any lawyer1 Congressman, or any one else to show has any ple to consent upon conference to a just bill. .M:y hope isoto get this earthly signification. And it goes on, as if it meant something, to pro­ bill through here and let it go to conference as early as posSible for the vide in the end that it may be nullified and set aside by this commis­ purpose ~f reaching a practical result. sion which it is propose(l to introduce between the citizen and the rail­ The gentleman from Iowa [Mr. HEPBUR~ ] who discus ed this. ub- road company. XVII--457 . . 7298 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. JULY 21,

Another thing: the House bill prohibits the pooling of freights and State of Illinois, and constantly brought int-o contact with railroacl prohibits the dividing of the proceeds or any part of the proceeds com­ 'management, ~nd who are deeply interested in the actiou to be taken ing from the freights. The gentleman from Iowa [Mr. HEPBURN] this by Congress on this subject. it will be seen that they express a clear and evening made the criticism tha.tthishillouly prohibited pooling freights decided preference for the Reagan bill over the Cullom bill, and I Jeavo and did not prohibit pooling money. The gentleman bad read the bill these two gentlemen from Illinois to settle with the farmers, the mer­ to little purpose. It prohibits the pooling of freights and the dividing chants, and the people generally of Illinois for their disregard of their ofthe product of the pool. wishes on this subject. I congratulate these gentlemen, howe>er, on These pooling arrangements enable the making of one v!!St monopoly having advanced far enough on this subject to consent tbat some legis­ from several small mon01)olies, and would give to th13 railroads control lation is necessary, and shall hope that it will not be a great while until of the transportation · an~ Cviil!!!erce an1 wealth of the country, and they conclude that real legislation for the benefit of the people shouliewsof By Mr. GALLINGER: Petition of L. B. Lewis and 140 others, of our members and the public sentiment generaJJ.y, for experience hath shown that the smaller the body or commission having public interest in charge R.nd George H. Hubbard and 125 others, of W. C. Hobart and 155 others, the farther· the appointing power which creates it is remaved from the ballot­ and of Richard Cross and 286 others, citizens of the second Congres­ box the less interest will it have for the people's rights, and the more potent sional district of New Hampshire. · will mercenary influences be to control it. By Mr. HAYDEN: Petition of F. C. Gartey and 79 othe~ and of From these proceedings of an intelligent, numerous, and worthy body Donovan and 46 others, citizens of the fifth Congressional district of of men engaged in agricultural and other industrial pursuits in the Massachusetts. 1886. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. • 7299

By Ur. MITCHELL: Petition of Robert McDermott and 76 others, Lincoln A. Little and 250 citizens of the seventh Congressional district of John J. Coyle and 27 others, of J. L. Conklin and 184 others, and of lllihois, praying for the passage of certain bills in relation to the of G. Hayes and 24 others, citizens of the second Congressional district public lands, Presidential and Cong£essional elections, and the disburse­ of Connecticut. ment of a part of the Treasury surplus; which were referred to the Com­ By Mr. PIDCOCK: Petition of George W. Bennett and 90 others, of mittee on Finance. Charles Bogert and 24 others, of John L. Harris and 57 others, and of He also presented several papers on the subject of the Haskell multi­ Julius Krebs and 62 others, citizens of the sixth Congressional district charge gun, and moved · their reference to the Committee on Printing; of New Jersey. which was agreed to. By 1\fr. TIANDALL: Petition of Edwin France and 30 others, of REPORTS OF CO)li\ITITEES. George C. Jayner and 42 others, of W. E. Elliott aud 386 others, and of G. RackJer and 42 others, citizens of the third Congressional district Mr. CAMERON,· from the Committee on OoL:lmerce, to whom was of Pennsy1 mnia. referred ·the bill (S. 2791) to provide for an American register f~r the By Mr. STORM: Petition of R. Daly and 44 others, and of R F. steamer Nuevo Montezuma, of Philadelphia, Pa., reported it without Duke and 100 others, citizens of the eleventh Congressional district of amendment. Pennsylvania. Mr. SAWYER, from the Committee on Pensions, to whom were re­ By Mr. STRUBLE: Petition of L. Countryman Emd 154others,dti­ ferred the following bills, reported them severally without amendment, zens of the eleventh Congressional district of Iowa. and submitted reports thereon. By Mr. WORTHINGTON: Petition of W. H. Buck and 21 others A bill ~H. R. 7234) granting a pension to Susan Hawes; and of H. R. Guder and 52 others, citizens of the tenth Congressional A bill H. R. 7244) granting a pension to Robert B. Kir1.-patrick; district of Illinois. A bill H. R. 8481) granting a pension to Thomas Walsh; A bill H. R. 8556) granting a. pension to Abraham Points; and A bill (H. R. 9052) granting an increase of pension to Capt. John F. Morris. SENATE. Mr. SAWYER, from the Committee on Pensions, to whom was re­ ferred the bill (S. 2774) to provide a. pension for Mrs. Anna Etheridge THURSDAY, July 22, 188(). Hooks, reported it with an amendment, n.nli. submitted a report thereon. The Senate met at 11 o'clock a. m. He also, from the same committee, to whom were referred the fol­ Prayer by tlie Chaplain, Rev. J. G. BUTLER, D. D. lowing bills, submitted adverse reports thereon; which were agreed to, The Journal ofyesterday's proceedings was read and approved. and the bills were postponed indefinitely: A bill (S. 1553) granting a pension to Mrs. E. G. C. Abbott; and PETITIONS ll'"D 1\IEMORIALS. A bill (H. R. 4460) to pension John W. Delph. 1t!r. CALL. I present a petition of the Board of Trade of Jackson­ Mr. ALDRICH, from the Committee on Pensions, to whom was re­ ville, Fla., n spectfully urging that provision be made by the present ferred the bill (H. R. 7721) granting a pension to Ellen J. WelchJ re­ Congress for the protection and prosecu.tion of the important public ported it without amendment, and submitted a report thereon. works which have been undertaken by the Government for the im­ 3\fr. MILLER, from the Committee on Finance, to whom was re­ provement of rivers and harbors. The board is impressed with the ferred the bill (S. 1189) for the relief of Bessie S. Gilmore, reported it fact that the enti.J:e country will suffer if there be a failure to make without amendment, and submitted a report thereon. suitable appropriation for the more important of these works. BILLS INTRODUC:ED. The petition also calls attention to the fact that if these appropria­ tions are permitted to lapse it will involve great damage to worksnow Mr. EVARTS introduced a bill (S. 2871) for the relief of Semon, in course of construction; that as to the jetties at the mouth of the Bache & Co.; which was read twice by its title, and referred to the Saint John's River there is every reason to believe the work vigorously Committee OJ;l Claims. prosecuted will prove au early and complete success, while an inter­ Al\IEl-t'"D:uENTS TO BILLS. ruption for another year will prove most disastrous and destructive to Mr. GIBSON submitted two amendments intencled to be proposed by these works. him to the sundry civil appropriation bill; which were referred to the I move the reference of the petition to the Committee on Commeree. Committee on Appropriations, ~nd ordered to be printed. The motion was agreed to. CIVIL-SERVICE RULES. Mr. CALL. I also present a petition and resolution of the Board of Trade of Jacksonville, Fla., the preamble of the resal u tion reciting: Mr. EDl\.fUNDS submitted the following resolutions; which were considered by unanimous consent, and agreed to: Whereas as a great SCIU'city of small bills exists nt the present time, and those which are in circulation are so ragged, worn, and filthy that they are unfit for Resolved, That the Commissioners of the Civil Service be, and they hereby arc, use; and _ directed to send to the Senate, ns soon as maybe, a copy of the ci'l'il-~er'l'ieerules Whereas it apjlears from the report of the Treasurer of the United States for and regulations, both general and special, as they were in force on the 4th day 1885 that this is due to a practice adopted by the Treasury in May, 1885, in as­ of March, A. D. 1885; and also. copies of all changes and modifications thereof, sorting notes sent for tedemption, reissuing such as were fit for circulation, &c. both general and special, made since said date; and also copies of any and all special orders or general orders made by any authority in reference thereto, or They therekre pray that there may be a new issue of notes and small action thereunder, since said date. Resowed, further, That said commissioners send to the Senate o.ny and all in­ bills which arc generally preferred for circulation to a heavy and in­ formation in their possession touchlng any and all alleged or supposed viola- convenient metal currency. They further state that their resolution tions of any of said rules nnd regulations. · must not be construed as either advocating or opposing the cause of LEGISLATIVE, ETC., APPROPRIATION BILL. silver, greenbacks, or national bank-note currency, but is simply ex­ pressive ofthe public wish fora sufficientsupplyofclean, well secured M:r. ALLISON submitted the following report: paper currency of th~ denomination o(one and two dollars. The committee of conference on the disagreeing votes of the two Houses on certain amendments of tho Senate to the bill (H. R. h"974) "making appropria­ I move the reference of the petition to th:e Committee on Finance. tions for the legislative, executive. and judicial expenses of the Government for The motion was agreed to. the fiscal yen.r ending June 30 1887, and for other purposes," having met, aflet· full and free conference h:we 1ocen unable to agree. Mr. CAMEHON presentedapetitionofWatsonBrothers Post, Grand W. B. ALLISO ... ·, Army of the Republic, of Portersville, Pa., and a petition of McPher­ H. L. DAWES, son Post, Grand Army ofthe Republic, of Pittsburgh, Pa., praying for F. l\f. COCKRELL, certain legisla1 ion favorable to ex-Union soldiers; which were referred Managers o11o thepa1·t o{the Senate. Wl\I. S. HOLl\IAN, to the Commit tee on Military Affairs. GEO. C. CABELL, He also presented a petition of citizens of Freeland, Pa., praying for J. G. CA1'1TNON, the passage of certain bills in relation to the public lands, Presidential .Manage~ ·s on the part of the House. and Congressional elections, and the disbursement of a part of the Ur. ALLISON. I will say in 1·espect to this report that the Senate Treasul'y surplus; which was referred to the Committee on Finance. and House conferees were unable to agree. The House still insists Mr. ALDRICH presented a memorial of256 citizensofRhodeisland, upon its disagreement to the Yotes on the three propositions before sub­ remonstrating against the -passage of the oleomargarine bill; which was mitted. ordered to lie on the table. Mr. MILLER. If the Senator will permit me I desire to ask him n. He also presented three petitions of citizens of Rhode Island, praying question in regard to the bill. This is the bill making appropriations for the passage of certain bills in relation to the public lands, Presi­ for the various Executive Departments of the Government, and I de­ dential and Congressional elections, and the disbursement of a part of sire to know if the sums appropriated in the bill will be sufficient to the Treasury surplus; which were refened to the Committee on Fi­ enable the Treasury Department through the Internal-Revenue Bureau nance. to carry into effect what is known as the oleomargarine law, if it shall Mr. COKE presented fiYe petitions of citizens of Texas, praying for finally become a law. the passage of cerl.:'tin bills in relation to the public lands, Presidential 1\Ir. ALLISON. The amount appropriated . in the bill with om· and Congressional elections, and the disbursement of a part of the Treas­ amendments will be sufficient, aUbough if the House insists upon its ury surplus; which were referred to the Committee on Finance. disagreement to the provision relating to the collection of revenue it 3\fr. LOGAN presented the petition of Ralph W. Lowe and 510 citi­ of course will not be. zens of the tenth Congressional district of Illinois, and the petition of 3\fr. 3\IILLER. Then I hope that the Senate conferees will insist on