UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 1 WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021
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PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
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The Council met at 10:00.
The Chairperson took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.
The Chairperson announced that the virtual sitting constituted a Sitting of the National Council of Provinces.
NOTICES OF MOTION
Mr W A S AUCAMP: Hon Chairperson, I hereby move on behalf of the DA that this House notes with concern the alleged failure
... Sorry, are we busy with notices of motion or motions without notice?
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Notices of motion.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 2 Mr W A S AUCAMP: Sorry, hon Chairperson. Mine is a motion without notice. I will wait for the next round then. Sorry.
Ms M O MOKAUSE: Chairperson of the Council, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the Council I shall move on behalf of the EFF:
That the Council-
(1) notes the rising number of COVID-19 cases
particularly at school level; and
(2) resolves the issues of the closing of schools and of
increasing COVID-19 vaccines.
Mr M DANGOR: Chairperson, I have raised my hand but I see it may not be working.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Okay.
Mr M DANGOR: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the Council-
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 3 (1) notes the continued air strikes carried out by the
apartheid Israeli government on the people of
Palestine in Gaza;
(2) further notes that these attacks are carried out in
keeping with the apartheid agenda of usurping
Palestinian land and denying the Palestinian people
their basic human rights; and
(3) appreciates that the continued attacks on the
Palestinian people all round has caused havoc in the
lives of many innocent Palestinians particularly
women and children.
Ms M BARTLETT: Chair, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the Council I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the Council-
(1) notes and debates the irregular expenditure of
municipalities, which is standing at a staggering
R26 billion for the 2019-20 financial year;
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 4 (2) further notes that irregular expenditure was
incurred in 246 of the 278 municipalities across
South Africa; and
(3) acknowledges that irregular expenditure remains a
key indicator of the dire and grim state of
municipal financial health in South Africa.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Thank you, hon Bartlett.
Mr T S C DODOVU: Dodovu, hon Chair ...
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: I’m not sure whether ... is it still notices of motion ... [Inaudible.]
Mr T S C DODOVU: I am raising my hand, Chair.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Notices of motion. Please note that if you want to move a motion without notice, you must wait. However, if you want to move a notice of motion ... yes, you can go ahead.
Mr T S C DODOVU: Yes. It’s Dodovu, Chair.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 5 The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: This is because sometimes you confuse the two motions and that leads to problems and delays progress in the House. Hon Dodovu?
Mr T S C DODOVU: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the Council I shall move:
That the Council-
(1) debates the politicisation of municipalities in
South Africa; and
(2) notes that many municipalities across the country
have been plunged into administrative crisis owing
to the politicisation of municipal administrations
and that many of the municipalities have been left
in the management of unqualified and unskilled
administrative officials who remain in office
because of political patronage.
Mr K MOTSAMAI: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the Council I shall move on behalf of the
EFF:
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 6 That the Council-
(1) notes that at the Ekurhuleni School for the Deaf in
Gauteng disabled children are being mistreated; and
(2) further notes that a motion must be moved by
Parliament to intervene at the Ekurhuleni School for
the Deaf as two children are sleeping on a single
bed.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Thank you very much, hon
Motsamai. Hon Mandla Rayi?
Mr M I RAYI: Chairperson, I’m on the waiting list for motions without notice.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Landsman?
Mr E R LANDSMAN: Thank you, Chair. Is it Mandla or me?
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: It’s you; Landsman.
Mr E R LANDSMAN: Chair, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the Council I shall move:
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 7 That the Council-
(1) notes the high rate of unemployment in South Africa
amongst the youth;
(2) further notes that according to the Quarterly Labour
Force Survey, youth unemployment, in terms of the
expanded definition, is trending at a staggering
74,7%, which means that only one in four school-
leavers under the age of 24 has a job in South
Africa; and
(3) acknowledges that South Africa needs urgent and
decisive interventions to address youth unemployment
in order to address the country’s social ills,
including the persistent high rate of generational
poverty, especially among black youths and Africans
in particular.
Mr I NTSUBE: Hon Chairperson of the Council, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the Council I shall move:
That the Council-
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 8 (1) notes and debates International Youth Day, which is
a day designated by the United Nations to be
celebrated every year on 12 August in recognition of
the resolutions of the United Nations General
Assembly on the recommendations of the World
Conference of Ministers Responsible for Youth which
was held in Lisbon from 8 August to 12 August 1998;
(2) further notes that International Youth Day, which is
commemorated every year on 12 August, is intended to
raise awareness of the World Programme of Action for
Youth that was adopted by the United Nations General
Assembly in 1995; and
(3) acknowledges that despite numerous commitments and
interventions to address the challenges facing young
people around the globe, many of them are still
facing a bleak future of poverty, unemployment, lack
of educational opportunities, economic exclusion,
substance abuse, crime and violence.
Mr S ZANDAMELA: Chairperson, I rise on behalf of the EFF that the House ... [Inaudible.]
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 9 The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: You are not audible, hon
Zandamela. Try again and just position yourself properly and take it easy.
Mr S ZANDAMELA: Can you hear me now, Chair?
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Ja.
Mr S ZANDAMELA: Thanks, Chairperson. I rise on behalf of the
EFF that the House on the next sitting day ... [Inaudible.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: There’s still a bit of a problem.
There’s still a bit of a problem. Try again. Just position yourself properly and try to speak a bit more slowly.
Mr S ZANDAMELA: Thank you, Chair. Can you hear me now?
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE NCOP: Ja.
Mr S ZANDAMELA: Thanks, Chairperson. I rise on behalf of the
EFF that on the next sitting day:
That the House debates the state of water and sanitation
in municipalities ... [Inaudible.]
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 10 The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: We will now move to motions without notice. Are there any motions without notice? Let’s start with Kenny Motsamai. [Interjections.] Kenny Motsamai first.
Mr M K MMOEIMANG: No, Chair. We are raising hands here on the screen.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Okay. I have the screen in front of me. The first name is Motsamai? I want to know if it’s an old hand.
Mr M K MMOEIMANG: He never lowered his hand.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Sorry?
Mr M K MMOEIMANG: I think he never lowered his hand. It is an old hand.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Okay. Can I ask the Table to please lower hands that were raised earlier and that are of no relevance now? Hon Rayi?
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 11 EASTERN CAPE PROVINCIAL DEPARTMENT COMMENDED FOR DISMISSING
SCHOOL PRINCIPAL LUBEKO MGANDELA IN DEFENCE OF LEANER’S HUMAN
RIGHTS
(Draft Resolution)
Mr M I RAYI: Hon Chairperson, I move without notice on behalf of the ANC:
That the Council-
(1) notes that the Eastern Cape school principal who was
arrested for allegedly forcing a learner to retrieve
his mobile phone from a pit toilet has been fired;
(2) further notes that the provincial education department
has confirmed that Luthuthu Junior Secondary Principal,
Lubeko Mgandela, has been sacked following a
disciplinary hearing;
(3) also notes that the dismissal comes three months after
he was placed on suspension to allow the department to
investigate the incident; and
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 12 (4) commends the provincial department for its swift and
effective action in defence of the human rights of the
learner and hope this will act as a deterrent to all
educators in our schools.
Mr K MOTSAMAI: Hon Chair, I don’t think you have exhausted the notices of motion. I believe that the Chief Whip raised his hand to speak on notices of motion.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE NCOP: It is on the motion without notice, hon Kenny. Thank you.
Mr K MOTSAMAI: Yes, my name is there, that is why I have been called. Thank you, Chairperson.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: No, no, no. No Motsamai, o ska nka “dichance” [don’t take chances.]. Amathuba azovela, baba.
[Opportunities will arise, sir.] You always speak, but please don’t do what you are trying to do now. We now looking at motions without notice. The first name was Rayi.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the
Constitution.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 13 Mr W A SAUCAMP: Hon Chairperson, if you will allow me I would like to make two motions without notice.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: No, no, no! One motion at a time.
One motion, one person.
DA CONCERNED ON GAMAGARA LOCAL MUNICIPALITY’S FAILURE TO
DELIVER BASIC SERVICES
(Draft Resolution)
Mr W A S AUCAMP: Thank you hon Chair, I will make one motion then. I move without notice on behalf of the DA:
That the Council-
(1) notes with concern the alleged failure by the Gamagara
Local Municipality in the Northern Cape to deliver
basic services such as the provision of water as
contained in Chapter 2 of the Constitution of the
Republic of South Africa of 1996 to the residents of
Olifantshoek;
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 14 (2) further notes that water tanks that have been placed in
Olifantshoek as a temporary solution to alleviate the
effects of the water crisis are not being filled by the
specified municipality on a regular basis;
(3) acknowledges that no schools or clinics in Olifantshoek
received enough water to maintain basic sanitation
practices such as the washing of hands;
(4) recognises that the roads in Olifantshoek are in a
state of disrepair with little to no maintenance being
done, which further hampers the delivery of water;
(5) recall that the DA has on numerous occasions called on
this municipality to fulfil its obligation towards the
delivery of water and other basic services to the
people of Olifantshoek to no avail;
(6) further recognises that should the specified
municipality not remedy the water crisis in
Olifantshoek as a matter of utmost urgency would not
only be the quality of life of the residence of
Olifantshoek that are being jeopardised, it would also
be the life of its residence that will be in jeopardy;
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 15 (7) calls on the Northern Cape member of the executive
responsible for co-operative governance, human
settlements and traditional affairs, Mr Bentley Vass to
urgently intervene to assist the specified municipality
to provide basic services, especially water to the
Olifantshoek community.
Not agreed to.
EUROPEAN COMMISSION’S DECISION TO INCLUDE ROOIBOS IN ITS
PROTECTED DESIGNATION REGISTER OF ORIGIN AND PROTECTED
GEOGRAPHICAL INDICATION A GREAT ACHIEVEMENT
(Draft Resolution)
Mr C F B SMIT: Hon Chairperson, I move without notice on behalf of the DA:
That the Council-
(1) notes the decision by the European Commission to
include Rooibos or Red Bush in its register of
protected designation of origin and protected
geographical indication;
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 16 (2) recognises that rooibos can only be cultivated in
certain areas of the Western Cape and Northern Cape,
and that the European Commission’s inclusion of Rooibos
as a protected designation assists to preserve the
rooibos industry’s heritage and creates job security
for the 8 000 persons currently employed in this
industry and will ensure that more job opportunities
are created;
(3) acknowledges that the journey to get rooibos designated
as a protected designation of origin started in the
1990s, and the recent inclusion by the European
Commission is a great victory as rooibos is the first
South African product to receive this designation; and
(4) congratulates the relevant departments and entities,
the officials and employees and all other role-players
in the industry on this momentous occasion and great
achievement.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the
Constitution.
INCREASING COVID-19 INFECTIONS IN SOUTH AFRICA A CONCERN
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 17 (Draft Resolution)
Ms S SHAIKH: Hon Chairperson, I move without notice on behalf of the ANC:
That the Council-
(1) notes that the average number of new infections
reported each day in South Africa rises by more than
7 400 over the last 3 weeks;
(2) further notes that COVID-19 infections in South Africa
are reported to be increasing with 11 406 new
infections on average each day which is the highest
daily average reported since 11 January 2021;
(3) welcome reports that our government is engaged in
negotiations to secure the Sputnik V and Sinovac COVID-
19 vaccines from Russia and China respectively; and
(4) implores the people of South Africa to exercise extra
care and observe COVID-19 regulations, and not let
fatigue lower our guard.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 18 Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the
Constitution
DA COMPLAINTS REGARDING MASSIVE SEWAGE DAM IN KIMBERLEY
(Draft Resolution)
Ms D C CHRISTIANS: Hon Chairperson, I move without notice on behalf of the DA:
That the Council-
(1) notes that the Northern Cape department of environment
and the Green Scorpions have finally taken complaints
by the DA regarding the massive sewage dam on the R31,
just outside of Kimberley seriously;
(2) further notes that recently a motor vehicle ended up in
the sewage dam, but fortunately there were no
fatalities;
(3) admits that in response to this disaster, I personally
notarised an affidavit regarding the sewage spill which
the Green Scorpions have indicated they will use to
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 19 corroborate the case when laying criminal charges
against Sol Plaatje Municipality for failing to
properly manage the Gogga Pump Station;
(4) also notes that while decisive action is eventually
being taken against Sol Plaatje Municipality for the
R31 sewage spill that there are other intolerable
sewage spills in and around Kimberley that are also
wreaking havoc on the lives of residents and need
demand and intervention from a higher level;
(5) notes that a number of households living in White City,
Roodepan, in Kimberley have to leave their sewage-
flooded homes and temporarily relocate to Riverton
Resort outside Kimberley;
(6) further notes that twenty-six families have been
affected and have been living at the resort for months
because of Sol Plaatje failure to address the sewage
challenges;
(7) acknowledges that in effect, these families have to
leave their properties unattended and the mercy of
thieves and vandals and many of the relocated residents
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 20 also do not have transport and now face an added
challenge of having to get themselves and their
children to work and school in Kimberley without
further assistance from this municipality;
(8) further calls on this Council to recognise that Sol
Plaatje Municipality remains in a state of decline,
unable to address the growing number of challenges
being experienced by residents;
(9) further notes that the residents of Kimberley would be
without water again this coming weekend for four to
five days as a result of the failing piping
infrastructure;
(10) urgently calls on the Minister of Water and sanitation
to intervene and lend support to Sol Plaatje
Municipality to find permanent solutions in getting the
ailing sewage and piping infrastructure up and running
again
Not agreed to.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 21 CONTINUED TRADE EMBARGO BY UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AGAINST
CUBA A GREAT CONCERN
(Draft Resolution)
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE NCOP: Hon Chairperson, I move without notice on behalf of the ANC:
That the Council-
(1) notes with utmost concern and apprehension the
continued trade embargo of the United States of America
against Cuba;
(2) further notes that the US trade embargo against Cuba,
which is the most enduring trade embargo in modern
history, prevents American businesses and businesses
with commercial activities in the United States from
conducting trade with Cuban interests;
(3) joins the rest of the global parliaments and
legislators around the world to call on the United
States and make a clarion call on President Joe Biden
and his government to repeal the infamous Helms-Burton
Act, which was conceived to perpetuate the US
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 22 government’s hostility against Cuba and imposed a
colonial tutelage mechanism on the Cuban nation and
punish, threaten and intimidate the persons,
organisations and governments against Cuba and freely
develop their economic and commercial links with the
island; and
(4) lastly urges the US legislature to establish
communication channels with Cuba that may favour
exchange and collaboration in areas of mutual bilateral
interest.
Not agreed to.
Ms C LABUSCHAGNE: We can take this debate later on, Chief
Whip, if you are objecting ... [Interjections.] ... the people’s lives are at stake. [Interjections.]
RAPID RISE IN COVID-19 INFECTIONS IN GAUTENG A CONCERN
(Draft Resolution)
Ms L C BEBEE: Hon Chairperson, I move without notice on behalf of the ANC:
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 23 That the Council-
(1) notes that parts of the Charlotte Maxeke Hospital in
the City of Johannesburg were ravaged by fire on 16
April 2021;
(2) further notes that the fire coincided with the
Gauteng’s rapid rise in COVID-19 infections and this
affected government’s preparedness for the third wave;
(3) welcomes the work done by the Gauteng government to
restore the hospital back to full operation;
(4) implores our government to work even harder to
prioritise the health and general wellbeing of Gauteng
people during this trying time; and
(5) applauds frontline workers in Gauteng who have been in
the forefront of fighting the pandemic in the province
amidst all challenges.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the
Constitution.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 24 FF PLUS CALLS ON FINANCIAL FORENSIC AUDIT TO BE CONDUCTED IN
JB MARKS MUNICIPALITY
(Draft Resolution)
Mr S F DU TOIT: Hon Chairperson, I move without notice on behalf of the FF Plus:
That the Council-
(1) notes that it is of the utmost importance that a
financial forensic audit be conducted in the JB Marks
Municipality in the North West province as soon as
possible.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the
Constitution.
FORMER ESKOM BOARD CHAIRMAN AND BUSINESSMAN JABU MABUZA PASSES
AWAY
(Draft Resolution)
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 25 Mr M K MMOEIMANG: Hon Chairperson, I move without notice on behalf of the ANC:
That the Council-
(1) notes that the former Eskom board Chairman and
businessman Jabu Mabuza passed away due to COVID-19
related complications earlier this week, Wednesday 16
June;
(2) further notes that the South African businessman served
on several national and international companies’ boards
in various capacities and industries;
(3) also notes that Mabuza currently served as Sun
International Limited chairman and non-executive
director on the board of MultiChoice Group;
(4) therefore the House sends our deepest condolences to
his family and friends at this time of bereavement.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the
Constitution.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 26 LACK OF TELECOMMUNICATIONS SYSTEMS AT NORTHERN CAPE POLICE
STATIONS
(Draft Resolution)
Ms M O MOKAUSE: Chairperson of the Council, I move without notice on behalf of the EFF:
That the Council—
(1) notes the lack of telecommunications systems at police
stations, particularly ...
Mr S F DU TOIT: Chair, on a point of order.
An HON MEMBER: A point of order, Chair.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Yes, what is the point of order?
Mr S F DU TOIT: Chair, hon members are not supposed to ...
An HON MEMBER: The point of order is ...
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 27 Mr S F DU TOIT: ... reflect political ... EFF memorabilia at the back of her screen. If she can just remove that please.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Yes, hon Mmabatho, you know what the Rules are. So let’s not do what you are doing. Please remove the background. Thank you very much.
Ms M O MOKAUSE: Chairperson, we are not in a fighting mood.
It’s just that I got out of my meeting a few minutes ago. So they don’t have to howl at me like that. I’m an EFF member by the way.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms S E Lucas): They did it with ANC members and we accept that.
Ms M O MOKAUSE: I rise on behalf of the EFF to move without notice:
That the Council—
(1) notes the lack of telecommunications ...
[Interjections.]
Why are you howling at me like that? What is the problem?
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 28 Afrikaans:
Die ADJUNKVOORSITTER VAN DIE NRVP (Me S E Lucas): Aai, die medisyne is bitter.
English:
Ms M O MOKAUSE: Just afford me an opportunity to speak.
An HON MEMBER: The problem is the background and you must accept that you were wrong.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon members, order!
Ms M O MOKAUSE: I’m not going to accept anything here.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Can you please allow the member to continue. [Interjections.] I ask hon Mmabatho as well not to add other things and to inflame ...
Ms M O MOKAUSE: I won’t apologise to the ANC and to right- wingers. Can I be allowed to speak?
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Please proceed.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 29 The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms S E Lucas): More to the left. More to the left. More to the left.
Ms M O MOKAUSE: I move without notice on behalf of the EFF:
That the Council—
(1) notes the lack of telecommunications systems at police
stations, particularly at Mothibistad, Tsineng and the
surrounding areas in the Northern Cape province;
(2) further notes that this type of shortage hampers the
police’s service delivery in the area; and
(3) calls on the SA Police Service to look into
capacitating all police stations in the area to
accelerate crime prevention in the Northern Cape
province.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the
Constitution.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 30 CONSIDERATION OF FOLLOW-UP OVERSIGHT REPORT OF AD HOC
COMMITTEE INQUIRING INTO SECTION 100 INTERVENTION OF THE
CONSTITUTION IN THE NORTH WEST PROVINCE
Mr T S C DODOVU: Chairperson of the NCOP hon Amos Masondo, hon
Minister of Cooperative Governance and Traditional Affairs Dr
Nkosazana Dlamini-Zuma, your deputy hon Obed Bapela, the Chief
Whip of the NCOP, permanent and special delegates, representatives of Salga, ladies and gentlemen.
In a very unprecedented way, three years ago in May 2018, the national executive led by President Ramaphosa invoked section
100 of our Constitution by placing the North West provincial government in its entirety under administration.
In terms of the provisions of section 101 of the Constitution, when a national government places a provincial government under administration, it means in its considered view the provincial government is incapable or incapacitated to fulfil its executive obligations in terms of the Constitution or any other legislation and therefore it issues a directive or it assumes the responsibility for such obligations.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 31 Hon Chairperson, interventions in their nature are drastic.
There are tough measures taken against another sphere of government. In the case under review, an intervention was a measure of last resort taken by the national government when it became apparent that despite the support given to the North
West province the governance crisis persisted unabatedly.
According to the diagnostic report of the national government, when it intervened in North West in 2018, violent labour unrest and community protests had paralysed services, they had destroyed lives and property. The health system had collapsed to an extent that the military health service of the Sandf had to come in to assist.
Schooling had been disrupted and children were kept out of schools for long. The audit results of the Auditor General were showing a year on year decline for four consecutive years. Serious allegations of corruption, misappropriation of funds and other acts of financial malfeasances were reaching alarming proportions.
Hon Chairperson, in addition, in 2018 there was non-compliance with supply chain processes with persistent lack of consequence management for transgressions and the ever
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 32 increasing unauthorised irregular, fruitless and wasteful expenditures. At the time, the provincial government had systematically outsourced service delivery by irregularly appointing the project management units involving hundreds of millions of rands, especially in the departments of Human
Settlement, health, agriculture and public works.
In most of the municipalities in the North West, the municipal services were in the state of collapse and the municipalities were unable to render basic services such as water and electricity while roads were in terrible conditions.
Prior to placing the North West under administration,
President Ramaphosa did appoint an inter-ministerial task team to conduct extensive engagements with stakeholders. After the
Cabinet took a decision to intervene in the North West, it deployed the assessment teams to conduct rapid diagnostic analysis of all provincial departments.
It was on those bases that Cabinet intervene in ten departments; five under section 101b with administrators deployed to run the departments while five other departments were issued with ministerial directives in terms of section
101A of the Constitution.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 33 In this regard, the President appointed an inter-ministerial task team under the leadership of Minister Dr Dlamini-Zuma to be accountable to the Cabinet and to regularly report to the
NCOP.
To give effect to the implementation of the intervention, a memorandum of understanding together with the implementation protocols were signed with the province to provide the framework for governance during the intervention.
It is our committee’s view that the national executive fully complied with the Constitution by giving the NCOP a written notice of intervention within the prescribed period of 14 days.
Accordingly, the NCOP has also complied in terms of section
102.C by setting up an ad-hoc committee in order for it to regularly review the intervention and to make appropriate recommendations to the national executive.
In discharging its mandate on behalf of this House, the ad-hoc committee interacted with a variety of stakeholders including the IMTT itself, National Treasury and Auditor General. It also met with all the law enforcement agencies which include
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 34 the National Prosecuting Authority, the directorate of crime investigation the Hawks, the Special Investigating Unit, SIU, as well as the Independent Police Investigative Directorate,
IPID.
In addition, the committee undertook an oversite visit to the
North West in March this year, where it interacted with the
Premier and its executive council, the Standing Committee on
Public Accounts, labour unions, traditional leaders, religious fraternity and other community stakeholders, like the Madibogo community forum.
During our oversite visit, we went to Dr Kenneth Kaunda and
Nyaka-Modiri Molema districts where schools, hospitals, social development centres, the road and bridge projects and the local airport were visited. This was done to follow up on the work of our predecessor committee which visited the same institutions in 2018.
Based on its work since it was established, the ad-hoc committee makes the following observations about the intervention in the North West. Interventions are not quick fixes but need time to sustain the corrective measures put in place by the administrators, especially in provinces where the
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 35 volume and magnitude of the crisis is bigger like in the North
West.
Lack of the early warning systems to detect problems lead to the escalation of such problems which ultimately necessitate interventions. Most senior positions in the North West have been filled especially the director general and other HODs, heads of departments, while other senior positions are in the process of being filled.
We note slow progress in finalising enabling legislation to guide section 100 and section 139 interventions resulting in vagueness on the role of administrators and thereby causing reliance on memorandum of understandings and implementation protocols.
There is a need for the spirit of cooperative governance, intergovernmental and interdepartmental relations for sustainability beyond the intervention. Lack of cooperation, team work and coordination amongst all structures and role players to ensure effective implementation of the intervention.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 36 We note that slow progress is being registered by the law enforcement agencies in investigating, prosecuting and arresting perpetrators who have allegedly been involved in acts of corruption.
We note that the NPA was dealing with 51 cases regarding the section 100 intervention, 13 of these cases are already in courts, 6 awaiting NPA decisions, 17 still under investigation, 15 have been finalised and only 2 cases were being enrolled.
We note most of the functions which were previously centralised in the office of the premier have been transferred back to the departments and most of the irregular project management units and outsourcing have been terminated.
The Department of Tourism has been discontinued and all tourism functions are transferred to the Department of
Economic Development, Environment and Conservation.
The instability in the North West province regarding the human settlement department caused by poor service delivery, underspending of funds, regression of audit opinions and PMU
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 37 might have serious negative consequences on service delivery if there is no intervention.
We also observe the budgetary constraints, accruals and baselines especially in the Department of Health and this remain a risk to service delivery.
Whilst noting some audit improvements we also express concerns around the cost escalations including irregular expenditure in infrastructure projects and this can open an opportunity for corruption and looting of state resources if not addressed immediately.
The instability of municipalities in the North West continues to undermine service delivery and social cohesion in the province. Having done a proper assessment on the work of the
IMTT and the engagement with the stakeholders and oversite visits in respect of the intervention by the national executive in the North West province, the ad-hoc committee recommends the following:
• that great progress has been registered by IMTT in the
intervention such as the audit report improvement, the
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 38 capacity building for service delivery, the filling of
key management positions, investment infrastructure and
improved systems;
• that the interventions in terms of section 100 of the
Constitution in North West should continue until the
national executive undertake a review process.
• that the IMTT should continue to closely monitor the
implementation of directives to ensure achievement of
outstanding priorities in the section 100 b departments;
• that the challenges in the Department of Human
Settlements be addressed urgently;
• that the national executive must monitor the performance
of the North West and to institute early warning
information systems to detect problems before they
escalate to deeper crisis;
• that the Departments are fully capacitated at senior
levels with qualified and experienced personnel and that
skills transfer must happen so that administration leaves
a stable senior management leadership in place,
• that the Department of Public Works attends to the
accommodation needs of departments, especially of social
development. Alternatively, the IMTT should look into
dissolution of function of property management from
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 39 public works back to other departments as a long term
solution to the current problem;
• that the Minister of Transport together with the MEC of
transport management in the province should urgently
resolve the issues around inability to promptly respond
to the transport needs of the Department of Health
including the procurement and maintenance of the EMS
fleet;
• that the law enforcement agency address issues of
capacity, integrity and allegations of corruptions in
their own ranks. Where it is alleged that some criminal
cases are not fully investigated or are being withdrawn
without valid reasons and whistle blowers and witnesses
not being protected;
• that progress in all criminal cases be opened with the
Hawks and SIU be urgently considered by the NPA but
particularly those that are subject to section 100
Intervention and that as such they must quarterly report
to the NCOP for close monitoring;
• that all the role players engage one another in good
faith and work together in a common view of restoring
good governance and accountability culture in the North
West;
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 40
• that proper sustainable internal control measures, fraud
prevention systems, monitoring and evaluation, audits and
independent audit committees be put in place;
• that consequence management be enforced in all incidents
of unauthorised, irregular and fruitless expenditure with
possible abuse in the system of SCM be kept in order to
avoid corruption, fraud and improper conduct;
• that proper planning in all infrastructure projects
especially those implemented by the Department of Public
Works and Roads be made to ensure deviations are kept at
minimum level to avoid cost escalations;
• that any outstanding or pending disciplinary cases of
officials alleged to have been involved in the financial
misconduct and maladministration be expedited;
• that adequate resources be allocated to the Department of
Education to address the much needed social
infrastructure maintenance backlogs and security issues
in the schools;
• that adequate resources are allocated by the Department
of Health to address the much needed hospital
infrastructure maintenance backlogs including kitchen
equipment, mortuary equipment, laundry services and other
general hospital infrastructure in the North west;
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 41
• that there must be continuous engagements with labour
unions and committees with a view of maintaining labour
peace and stability that will contribute to improved
service delivery;
• that the ultimate exit strategy should address the change
management imperatives, such as skills transfer, address
capacity challenges and capabilities of the North West
government to function effectively, strong performance
monitoring, establishment of independent governance, as
well as accountability structures and institutionalising
new standard operating procedure;
• that this exit strategy should take into account that a
successful intervention provides for adequate period of
transition to ensure stability during the post
intervention period;
• that the IMTT submit an exit strategy to the NCOP prior
to withdrawing the intervention, this will allow the NCOP
to make its own assessment on whether the strategy
addresses all the systemic issues raised in the committee
report;
• that all the role players including the NCOP, government,
civil servants and other state structures should
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 42 contribute in helping the North West province to
stabilise.
Hon Chairperson, it is vitally important that political parties, especially, are stable and function effectively to play their role. The participation of civil society also needs to be strengthened and contribute more to ensuring that the province is brought back to normality and function effectively.
Lastly, that the process be expedited promulgation of the legislation which regulates intervention in terms of section
100 and section 139 of the Constitution.
It is the considered view of this committee that sufficient progress has been registered in bringing about stability in the North West province. However, the magnitude of the outstanding challenges which still persist, the committee is of the view that continuous and regular monitoring of intervention as required by section 100.2.C of the
Constitution must be made until intervention is ended.
Once the intervention is ended, the NCOP should ensure that
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 43 Parliamentary sector committees of this NCOP obtain this report to follow up on the set recommendations made by the ad- hoc committee inquiring into the North West section 100 intervention. With that, we want to heartily thank all the participants, all the role players, including the staff of this legislature, that helped us to arrive at this point that we are able to present the report before you, hon Chairperson.
We therefore wish to thank everybody who assisted the ad-hoc committee in the performance of its work. Thank you very much.
The MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL
AFFAIRS: Hon Chairperson and Deputy Chairperson of the NCOP,
Chairperson of the Select Committee on Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, Cogta, hon Dodovu, Deputy Minister of
Cogta, hon Bapela, members of the provincial executives, representatives of South African Local Government Association, hon members, let me thank you for the opportunity to participate in this debate and provide context to the report of the Ad Hoc Committee on the section 100 Intervention in the
North West Province.
The debate occurs under very difficult circumstances because of the COVID-19 pandemic, which has engulfed the entire world including us. We pose to pay tribute to the brave frontline
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 44 workers who have placed their lives on the line to save our lives and livelihoods. Our condolences to those who have lost their loved ones during this period including the family of
Jabu Mabuza who passed away recently.
This debate also occurs during the morning period which was occasioned by the sad passing of the father of the Zambian nation, Dr Kenneth Kaunda. We wish to extend our condolences to his family, to the people of Zambia, and the continent as well as residents of the Dr Kenneth Kaunda District
Municipality in the North West. Our national flag fly at half- mast as a reminder that our free was not free. It was amongst others, President K Kaunda, the people of Zambia, the frontline states, the continent and the progressive world who paid for our freedom. Some even paid in blood, trade deficits and economic under development.
IsiZulu:
Siyabonga kubaba uKaunda.
Kiswahili:
Asante sana ...
Xitsonga:
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 45 Hinkomu.
English:
We know that the son of the African soil, world statesman, a defender of democracy defender of the African unity is now joining the galaxy of other leaders who have contributed to the freedom of our continent.
President Kaunda’s brand of humanism which is like the
Nyerere’s philosophy of Ujamaa, dictates that we build a caring society and a caring government. Such a government must preoccupy itself with the health, welfare protection, livelihoods and the development of its people. This is the primary reason for the existence of the developmental state.
The developmental state must hold truism in both content and form. From the content perspective the developmental state is compelled to marshal all society behind a common goal along a path towards a common vision of a better life for all. From the form perspective, the state should be appropriately capacitated to fulfil its mandate and vision. The ANC has never been ambiguous about the vision. Our vision entails “A better quality life for all without regard to race, gender or ethnicity.” The path towards this is inscribed by our forebears in the Freedom Charter amongst many instrumental
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 46 resolutions strategies and documents. And also in our last conference where we recalled and I quote:
Developmental state that provides effective basic
services and with capabilities to take forward a far-
reaching agenda of national economic development whilst
at the same time placing people and their involvement at
the centre of this process.
Our Constitution also implores us to be developmental.
Hon members, our intervention in the North West motivated by the pursuit of the ... [no sound] ... developmental agenda.
The internal and ... [Inaudible.] ... reasons for our intervention are well known and I think the Chairperson has also reminded us so I won’t go into that. The situation which had been festering in the North West is also well documented with labour and civil unrest being the key triggers.
Because these issues had built up over sometime, the intervention cannot be a sprint but rather is a marathon. It requires appropriate pacing and capacitation. So our race is not yet over. Service delivery remains of concern especially at local government level with key areas such as access to
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 47 water, sanitation, water treatment, plants, street lighting, some potholes and also lack of maintenance. Although there has been improvements in the audit outcomes, much more still needs to be done to promote transparent governance and accountability.
Hon members, will recall that we placed five departments under direct control of the national Ministers in terms of section
100 (1) (b) of the Constitution. This also included the office of the Premier. Other five departments including Cogta were placed under section 100 (1)(A) meaning that the province still ran those departments and the national only gave directives.
In Cogta, it was unfortunate that we did not have continuity and stability in that department in terms of the leadership.
You will recall that we’ve had three MECs in three years in that department, which oversees municipalities. The continuity would have enabled us to respond better at local government.
It also would have enabled continuity and mobilisation of the necessary capacities and capabilities. Nonetheless, we are gradually reducing the combined annual irregular expenditures in the departments. So far we have reduced it by 47% from
R4,2 billion to R 2,2 billion. And we must also recall that
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 48 some of them are legacy and they are not new and irregular expenditures. Our target is to bring it as close to zero as possible.
Since our people largely experience service delivery at local level, it is clear that we must assist the provincial government to pay more attention to local government so that our people can experience better service delivery.
Consequently, we have recorded progress with regard to at least stabilising the administrative leadership at the provincial sphere. We are working well with the MEC and the provincial government because it is important and paramount to have the three spheres of government as the Chairperson has been saying, working well together in order to improve service delivery.
Let me also say that we have ensured that the five departments that were put under section 1B do have substantive heads of department, like the Department of Health, agriculture land and rural development, they have new heads of department. The
Department of Public Works and Infrastructure, DPWI, has had its head of department dismissed after a disciplinary session.
Now we are advertising the post. By the time we leave the
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 49 province we want to make sure that there is stability at least at that level of government. We have also filled other posts and at the Premier’s office, there is also a new head.
There has been a dismissal of the head of Department of Health including public works. There are also 28 officials who have either been dismissed or sanctioned for inappropriate actions and poor decisions.
This is just to ensure that there is consequence management because one of the things that we have learned is that there had been a lack of consequence management. And that is what the intervention has done to instil that. But of course, we know that, that is not enough. Where crimes have been committed, we must prosecute and where public funds were misused and misappropriated we must recover them.
In this regard, the National Prosecuting Authority together with the directorate for priority crimes investigation is pursuing 51 cases thus far. The Asset Forfeiture Unit is also busy at work. And so far they are pursuing cases which would amount to about R2,3 billion. There is no doubt that these efforts will complemented by the efforts of the Special
Investigative Unit, SIU, which has been enabled by the seven
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 50 presidential proclamations including the one for 21 March, which will investigate the happenings at the DPWI.
Hon members, our intervention has also taught us a lot. A central lesson is that all political parties must play their part especially at local government level. Because where there is instability in the council it leads to problems in governance, because the oversight becomes poor, where there are divisions there is no proper oversight - Municipal Public
Accounts Committee, MPACs, don’t work, the financial management gets interfered with. And also, if there is inappropriate interface between council the administration, then you find that there are problems and if there is interference you find that the posts are not being filled on time or are not filled appropriately. It is very important that political parties play their part. Because all these things lead up to poor service delivery and our people in the process then suffer. That is one lesson that we have learned very harshly in the North West.
Other key lessons are that if there are no proper economic activities, if the local economic development, LEDs, and generally, economic activity is low it means that there will be problems in the local government. Because people will be
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 51 unemployed, they will not pay their services and the local government will not be able to raise the funds. People will then want to interfere with local government because it might be the only source of employment, or source of business. So it is very important that we promote local economic development as part of fighting hunger under development and inequality but also as a part of fighting instability in local government and corruption at local government. This is a lesson we have also learned. And we think that the issue of all the three spheres working together becomes even more important, as we see in the lessons we are learning in North West.
We realised that it was important that we decided to work in a different way now as government and that all three spheres should be working together including business. Because we need to crowd in investments both from public and private sector so that we ensure that there is proper development in the municipalities. We also learned that if we don’t solve problems like Ditsobotla in the North West, where administratively it was difficult to solve the problems when political problems were not sorted out. Now it has led to disinvestment of a big company there which is a very big concern. Clover has announced that it is leaving because of
... [no sound] ...
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 52 The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Let’s try again and just ensure that the Minister remains audible. There is a bit of a problem there, we ask the table staff to assist as well. Please proceed, Minister. We will try to get the Minister back.
The MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL: ... I was kicked out and I am now back.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Please proceed, Minister.
The MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL: Let me see where I ended. I was saying that we have also learned in the North West how important it is to work in a cohesive manner for all the three spheres. But not only the three spheres, but also to work with business and to ensure that the investments that are already there stay and those that are still coming can be attracted. This is an important lesson that we have learned the hard way as well in the North West.
Chairperson, let me also say that we have scored victories.
What I am saying does not mean that we have not been able to achieve. But of course, we have achieved mainly in the province. But I was stressing that now the Inter-Ministerial
Task Team, IMTT, has recognised that we have to have a
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 53 concerted effort to assist the Department of Cogta to deal with the issues of the municipalities.
We are grateful to the IMTT, members and to the MEC and those that have co-operated. We have now put a rapid response team which comprise of a number of government structures. Cogta will be represented by Municipal Infrastructure Support Agent,
MISA, water and sanitation ... [no sound] ... environment will also be coming on board, roads and transport will be coming on board, BSA is coming on board, to try and assist the municipalities.
We also want to say that although the Project Management Unit,
PMUs in the province were dismantled, it doesn’t mean that
PMUs per say are a problem. PMUs can be a very good way of facilitating service delivery where there is not capacity. But we have to make sure that they are contracted properly, and that they spend the money properly. But it may be that we might have to use them where necessary because of a lack of capacity for delivering services.
Going forward, we also agree with the Chairperson that we must tighten the legislation and the regulatory environment as it pertains to section 100 and section 139 interventions, paying
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 54 attention to rules and responsibilities to the various spheres and components of governance. These interventions must also be able to have enough resources because we have also learned that we can’t only rely on the resources that exists in the province when you do these interventions. So it is very important to have a funding models to avoid the financial reliance on the departments and municipalities the intervention is targeting. The slow pace in finalising disciplinary and criminal cases also confessed.
Indeed, the road ahead has still got proverbial potholes, we must learn that the programme will be terminated at some stage as soon as the executive decides. But it must not be a big bang departure from the province. Even as those departments withdraw their administrators, we must make sure that they still keep a very close eye on those departments so that their gains are not reversed. Though we may have to continue giving directives the departments until we are sure that they will be no reversals.
As I conclude, I want to thank all the people who have co- operated with us in this intervention and continue to co- operate. Also thank the Chair and members of the ad hoc select committee that we are working with. Thank you very much.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 55 Ms C VISSER: Hon Chairperson, hon Minister and Deputy Minister
... [Inaudible.] ...
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Visser, you are not audible.
Ms C VISSER: ... hon members and all South Africans, at the sitting at this House on 24 November 2020, the DA tabled a motion without notice unopposed about the section 100 intervention in the North West Province evoked in May 2018 by the national government. The motion stated that no significant change could be noted for the period and that the failure of administrators to regularly report on the progress contributed to the poor state of governance that left us all in the dark about the true state of the North West Province. The fact that the tabling of the progress report has not been standard procedure is alarming and casts doubt on the efficiency of this intervention.
The process that was followed towards the invocation of this intervention should also be reviewed. This includes questions on the legality of the Sixth Administration inheriting the intervention of the Fifth Administration. The manner in the way the national intervention has been conducted thus far is
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 56 not conducive to the improvement of service delivery or any other constitutional obligation towards the citizens.
Section 42 (4) of the Constitution states that:
The National Council of Provinces represents the provinces and ensure that the provincial interests are taken into account in the national sphere of government. It does this mainly by; participating in the national legislative process and by providing a national forum for public consideration of issues affecting the provinces.
The constitutional role of the NCOP is to provide an effective bridge between provinces and the national government and to contribute to the realisation of the constitutional commitments to co-operative and effective government. The said section 100 (a) and (b) interventions into the 10 departments of the North West provincial government was indeed needed and long before it happened. The signs of the collapse should have been acted upon proactively before the total collapse of not only the provincial government but also preventing the total collapse of all the North West Province municipalities or road infrastructure, school clinic, site insecurity and even the law enforcement agencies. All that is the government in North
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 57 West Province collapsed. The national executive should have intervened much earlier by taking appropriate steps to realign the North West provincial government ensuring the fulfilment of their constitutional obligations, assuming responsibility for the relevant obligations to the extent, necessary to maintain essential national standards to meet established minimum standards for the rendering of services.
And to maintain economic unity and national security.
During this time, fraud, corruption and criminal ...
[Inaudible.] ... were provided with opportune circumstances to widen their footprint all over the North West Province nurtured in every government department. This created and nurtured climate was conducive to develop criminal and corrupt syndicates, gangs, and gangsterism, looting of tax money, infiltration into and inflating tenders in all spheres of governance in the North West Province. The DA takes cognisance of the importance of a viable exit of the section 100 intervention to ensure the North West provincial government is functionally restored and capacitated to the mandates of good governance and delivery of services to its people.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 58 Seventy million rand was already wasted on accommodation and security on this intervention without reaching the set objective within three years. We appreciate the investigations and prosecutions procedures on the 51 cases of fraud and corrupt activities involving millions of rand. And trust that the investigation will reveal cases that appeared in the media since 2014.
The focus of the NCOP in this situation should be, was the
Memorandum of Understanding between the Inter-Ministerial Task
Team, IMTT and the premier completely honoured? Did the intervention meet most, if not, all of the terms of reference, as well as the recommendations from the ad hoc committee of the Fifth House?
Further than that, this House should realise that this intervention cannot be extended indefinitely. This House should acknowledge that the IMTT was appointed by the hon
President Ramaphosa with directions and outcomes. What was the direct involvement and contributions of the IMTT Ministers in their oversight roles? And responsibilities to identify, resolve and contribute to the betterment of the situation or did their HODs determine their views. Currently, the question that begs to be answered is, who is doing what? We have the
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 59 Minister, the IMTT, the administrators, the NCOP ad hoc committee in their monitoring and investigative role, the local MECs, the premier. Also supported by the HODs director- generals, chief directors, support staff and content advisors.
Presentation upon presentation was prepared and presented and more extensive reports written and submitted. What we need is implementation and action delivered to the outcomes. However, this substantive report of the ad hoc committee suggests the extension of the intervention.
The DA is of the view that the extension of the intervention keeps those responsible and accountable in the ICU, on crutches and dysfunctional but the extension of the intervention cannot continue in the current format. There must be a set of deliverables and the NCOP must be involved in the setting of the key performance areas and indicators to determine the measurables and the budgeting thereof.
Governance on all levels should be restored to levels of checks and balances, accountability, consequence management, applicable to every individual in all spheres of government and the eradication of the systemic fraud and corruption within all the government structures. Therefore, the DA is of the view that the intervention in the current format is not
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 60 effective and, therefore, calls for a new format to ensure that this intervention restores the constitutional obligations of the North West provincial government to deliver effective services for the betterment of all that live and work in the
North West Province. The communities of the North West
Province deserve a provincial government and the local governments to serve them, to develop their communities and to ensure political stability and be governed according to their constitutional mandates, complying with the Bill of Rights of every citizen of the North West Province.
The citizens and communities are currently kept hostage and deprived of services they are obliged to receive while some pay for services they never receive. Of paramount importance is that the North West provincial government being restored to function in the constitutionally obligated role to ensure viable leadership, sound administration and a capable state.
Factional infighting within all ANC structures in the North
West Province contributed to further instability at all levels of governance causing the total collapse and destruction of municipalities and the malfunctioning of the provincial administration. I want to close with a quote from William
Cobbett that said:
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 61 Good government is known from bad government by this infallible test: that under the former the labouring people are well fed and well clothed, and under the latter, they are badly fed and badly clothed.
Thank you.
Mr M K MMOEIMANG: Thank you national Chair, let me also rise on behalf of the ANC to support the report as tabled by the ad hoc committee Chair, hon Dodovu. Indeed, to understand the context of the report, allow me to quote what the great father of the National Democratic Revolution said. Ntate Sisulu said that:
“Every organisation engaging in a National Democratic
Revolution constantly has to isolate and search for
solutions crucial both to its continued existence and to
the success of revolution as a whole. In a certain sense
the story of our National Democratic Revolution is a
story of problems arising and problems overcome”.
This is what he said in one of his writings in 1976. I think the report as tabled by the Chair, clearly articulate the challenges that we are faced with in the province of North
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 62 West. But of course, what the report also record, reminds us of what the General Secretary of the Communist Party of China said when he said that:
“History is the best textbook. History faithfully records
every country’s journey and also give inspiration for
future development”.
The lessons learned from this is that the sixth administration will be able to use the report as basis to avoid the pitfalls and the potholes as alluded to in the report. Indeed, some of the democratic forces in 1994 was without a doubt a milestone in the transformation in the South African society and definitely it articulated the type of the state that we want.
We have said in 2007 that as the ANC, we are committed to building a capable and developmental state. Therefore, it becomes important that the challenge that we are faced with in the province must be articulated against what we want as a developmental state.
Indeed, our understanding of a paradigm of a developmental state is located in the spirit as articulated in the
Constitution and in the vision laid out on the National
Developmental Plan, it is a state with vertical capacity, it
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 63 is the state at the centre of it focusing on a socioeconomic transformation, and it is a state with a professionalised public services. These characteristics are issues that we just had to oppose to what was happening in the province, which necessarily forced us to say there is an intervention to ensure that socioeconomic challenges are addressed.
We had to intervene to ensure that capacity what seems to be the issue is addressed. Of course, we can’t run away from the fact that some of the provinces were built out of the legacy of Bantustans and we all understand that what we have inherent in those Bantustans and homelands, was an inheritance of socioeconomic problems like lack of water, lack of proper human settlement, no electrification and, generally lack of other socioeconomic infrastructure.
Therefore, this provincial government was confronted with those legacies. It is important to also indicate that there are peculiar issues that had to be taken into account, particularly as reflected in the General Household Survey,
2019, to be able to understand the issues that are isolated in the section 100 intervention. This General Household Survey tracks the progress of development and identifies persistent service delivery gaps over a period of 18 years and contained
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 64 information across a wide variety of issues such as service delivery, education, and economic development.
On the provision of access to clean water, for example, it pointed out that a percentage of households with improved source of water increased by less than 4% points between 2002 and 2019. The increases were mostly notable in the Eastern
Cape and KwaZulu-Natal. Despite these notable improvements, access to water actually declines in five provinces between
2002 and 2019. The North West is amongst those provinces, where in such areas such as Madibeng, there continues to be water supply challenges.
The report also shows draws attention to the fact that approximately one quarter of households consisted of a single person, while three fifths had fewer than four members. The
North West has the highest incidents of single person household, while households which contained more than six members were most common in Kwa-Zulu Natal and Mpumalanga.
This must highlight that the dynamics of service delivery differ across provinces and it is the responsibility of provincial and local governments to tackle these challenges.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 65 The central point from the General Communist Secretary is that, while there have been great strides made in service delivery over the years, there are instances where other provinces lagged behind and there is a need for intervention.
This intervention is meant to raise the standards of service delivery, to bring them in line with the minimum national standards. It is in this context that we must understand the section 100 intervention in the North West.
The report highlights, as correctly pointed out, that there are instances where service delivery has collapsed or has not met satisfactory standards as reflected in the report from the
Inter-Ministerial Task Team which was also tabled for this
House by the national Chair.
The report also highlighted the issue of inadequate human resources capacity. The challenges that we are faced and reflected in the Auditor-General’s report in terms of a critical vacancies such as Chief Financial Officers and senior management roles, is an issue that was also reflected in the report.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 66 The 2020 Local Government Week also reflected on this challenge, including instances where appointments were somehow compromised. We must be deliberate about building a capable human resource as part of our commitment to building a capable and developmental state with professionalised public services.
This must be done in order to ensure that we are capable to respond to the demands and the complex realities of service delivery.
The Auditor-General 2019-20 report also reflects that there are issues around general capacity for proper financial management and internal audit. So, it’s a matter that is also reflected in report, but we are also calling upon the sixth administration leadership to deal with these issues, but also to mitigate the usually overpriced financial consultants when it comes to audit because there is no in-house capacity built by these consultants.
Service delivery does not only improve the quality of life for our people but it is also a public investment by the developmental state, so it is important that as our commitment to building a developmental state, the provincial government must also attract investments in the province and creates value chains in order to build local economies.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 67 It is important that we also emphasise the issue of localisation, which is very critical in ensuring sustainable and inclusive local economic growth, as the Minister has indicated. The state at a local government level has not taken up optimally the developmental role of providing support for
Small, Medium & Micro Enterprises, SMMEs. The reality is that most municipalities still don’t procure local goods and services from local producers and this compromises not only job creation, but the creation of local value chains and sustained economic activity.
The buying power of the state at a local level should be used to stimulate local demand. I am happy that hon Cwaile will also be taking part. He will be able to respond to the issue of value chains, and also creating a system of innovation where there is a flow of technology and information within local SMMEs, with external players using local economic development as internal part of a pillar of local government system.
The report touches on key milestones which have been achieved since the intervention and this is something that is very encouraging and indicates that indeed the province is been set
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 68 on the correct path where we will restore good governance and socio-economic growth.
The intervention has come a long way, and the scenes of instability that we saw in 2018 where there was political turmoil in the streets of North West. We must commend the
Inter-Ministerial Task Team, IMTT, and the Ad-Hoc Committee for the sterling role it has played in terms of bringing stability to the provincial government also under the stewardship of the provincial administration.
We also want to commend the committee and the IMTT for engaging with labour and the communities around the North West and listening to their grievances. These are important components of the stakeholders that must continuously be engaged and ensure that they move along with the process in sync. We want to plead that this culture of engagement must be inculcated and deepened in the province as it appears to have been lacking before this intervention. I thank you, hon national Chair.
Mr I M SILEKU: Hon Chairperson, hon members, fellow South
Africans ...
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 69 IsiXhosa:
... molweni ...
Afrikaans:
... goeiemore ...
English:
... good morning. I’m not surprised that when hon Mmoiemang started with his debate he gave us a history lesson because while we were on the ground in the North West, he was on Zoom.
So he didn’t have the facts. All his inputs are based on reports that he received.
The main objective of co-operative governance is to ensure that all spheres of government are committed to securing the wellbeing of all the people of South Africa, and to that end must provide effective, transparent, accountable and coherent government to the entire ... [Inaudible.]
Mr M K MMOEIMANG: On a point of order, national Chair.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Yes, hon Mmoiemang, what’s your point of order?
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 70 Mr M K MMOEIMANG: I think that hon Sileku knows that as a member of the Joint Standing Committee on Defence I was in
Pretoria and those meetings don’t entertain the Zoom platform.
[Interjections.] It’s ... [Inaudible.] ... wrong to ...
[Inaudible.]
Mr I M SILEKU: Hon Mmoiemang, you are wasting my time. You are wasting my time.
An HON MEMBER: It’s a point of debate, hon Mmoiemang.
[Interjections.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Really, there’s ... Order, hon members! Really, there is no point of order there. So, I’ll allow hon Sileku to proceed.
Mr I M SILEKU: Thank you, Chair. Although provinces ...
Mr M K MMOEIMANG: He’s misleading the House ... that I was on
Zoom. I was not on Zoom, Chair. I was not on Zoom. He’s misleading the House.
An HON MEMBER: There was a ruling, hon Mmoeimang.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 71 Mr I M SILEKU: Chair, can I continue? Can I please continue?
Hon Mmoeimang ...
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Can we for a moment leave the question of Zoom out of the debate and just allow hon Sileku to proceed?
Mr I M SILEKU: Thank you very much, Chair. Although provinces are distinctive, they exercise their powers and perform their functions within the regulatory framework set by the national government, which is also responsible for monitoring compliance with that framework, and if needs be, intervening when constitutional or statutory obligations are not fulfilled.
In 2018, the President established the Interministerial Task
Team, IMTT, also known as the intervention team, after the province was engulfed in violent public protests which threatened to disrupt the rule of law and order, and affected the delivery of basic services in the province.
The provincial government was put under administration of section 100(a) and (b) which meant that national government took control of all powers that normally reside within the
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 72 provincial government as well as municipalities. This intervention took place in order to combat the looting and maladministration that was prevalent in many government departments.
The ad hoc committee ... of section 100 had to go and see for themselves if this particular intervention had actually been bearing fruit since 2018. Our visit was from 15 to
18 March 2021. We listened to a lot of presentations from the executive, administrators, provincial Standing Committee on
Public Accounts, Scopa, and unions. It was clear from these presentations that all was not well. The premier and his team were divided on whether the intervention was working or not.
Members of the community that we were supposed to meet ended up being ANC members. We were eventually informed that the meeting with the community had not been properly communicated, resulting in another opportunity going to waste.
The issues identified by the Fifth Parliament’s ad hoc committee are still unresolved, without any indication as to when it will be resolved. The following departments, namely
Community Safety and Transport, Health, Social Development and
Public Works continue to work in silos. The tension between the executive and the administrators was clear from day one.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 73 Some departments still need to appoint senior staff members.
There are clinics that are ready to be used but cannot be used due to the threat of gangsterism. While some departments have shown some improvements in audit outcomes, the provincial
Department of Health has not improved, while the Department of
Human Settlements got a disclaimer. It is evident that an improved audit outcome in the embattled North West province does not necessarily measure service-delivery improvements.
On 7 June 2021, we dealt with the community forum about a memorandum that was submitted to the Office of the Premier in
2017. What was surprising, was that the then mayor in that particular municipality was an MEC ... one of the departments which is also under intervention. She was reshuffled to the municipality and later reshuffled to the NCOP. This is the hon
Tebogo Modise. I am not surprised. While the memorandum was unresolved ...
Mr M K MMOEIMANG: Order, Chair. Hon Chair, is it parliamentary for a member to cast aspersions on his colleagues?
Mr I M SILEKU: No, those are facts, Chair. Those are facts.
She left without resolving the memorandum. She was a mayor in
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 74 2016 until she was reshuffled to the NCOP and she sits next to me in the NCOP. Can I continue, Chair?
Mr M K MMOEIMANG: Hon Chair, is it correct for a member to cast aspersions on his colleague? Can the Chair rule on that?
An HON MEMBER: Whose speech is this? Is it Mmoeimang’s speech?
Mr I M SILEKU: Hon Chair, can I ... I’m only left with two minutes. Can I conclude?
An HON MEMBER: You are muted, Chair.
Ms H S BOSHOFF: Go for it, Isaac. Don’t allow Mmoeimang to put you off.
Mr I M SILEKU: It is clear that the ANC is an enemy to itself and no intervention implemented by them will ever give us value for money. [Interjections.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: You can’t cast aspersions on your fellow Members of Parliament. If you want to raise specific issues like that, then you need a substantive motion that
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 75 outlines ... that will allow space for all those kinds of issues to be discussed ...
Mr I M SILEKU: Noted, Chair.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: ... and therefore I will ask you to withdraw.
An HON MEMBER: Yes, thank you, Chair.
Mr I M SILEKU: Okay, noted. Can I ...
Ms C LABUSCHAGNE: Chairperson?
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: I will ask you to withdraw that remark.
Ms C LABUSCHAGNE: On a point of order.
Mr I M SILEKU: ... withdraw that hon Modise is a member of the
NCOP?
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Yes, hon Labuschagne, what is your point of order?
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 76 Ms C LABUSCHAGNE: Chairperson, on a point of order: According to the Rules there is freedom of speech. What hon Isaac Sileku said is a fact. The member was an MEC and then she was a mayor, and now she’s in the NCOP. What must he withdraw about that?
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: No, no, no, the point that is being made is that you cannot have a situation where hon
Sileku passes judgement and therefore casts aspersions on the hon member. If he wants to debate the details and show us the merits and demerits of hon Modise’s capability as a leader, then we need a substantive motion.
Mr I M SILEKU: But, Chair, I’m stating that when she was mayor
... [Inaudible.]
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL: Hon Sileku, I would appeal ...
Can you honestly accept the ruling of the Chair and debate your facts in your speech, please?
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms S E Lucas): Order, order! The Chairperson has made a ruling. He ruled.
Mr I M SILEKU: I withdraw, Chair.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 77 The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Can you withdraw, hon Sileku?
Mr I M SILEKU: I withdraw. Can I continue?
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Please proceed.
Mr I M SILEKU: It is clear that the ANC is an enemy to itself and no intervention implemented by them will ever give us value for money. They need to fix their house instead of wasting taxpayers’ money in fighting their political battles.
The current premier, the former premier and the future premier should take political accountability for the mess in front of their doorstep, instead of fighting each other. People are crying out for basic services. If the ANC really cared about the people of the North West, they wouldn’t use the
Constitution to fight their factional battles. [Inaudible.]
An HON MEMBER: Chairperson, on a point of order.
[Interjections.]
IsiXhosa:
Mnu I M SILEKU: Kucacile ukuba ukufa kusembizeni.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 78 English:
There is death in the pot. I thank you.
IsiXhosa:
Enkosi.
Afrikaans:
Baie dankie.
Mr S ZANDAMELA: Thank you, Chairperson. Due to the collapse of governance systems and social structures which led to the labour unrest as well as damage to properties that we observed in the North West province in 2018, the Cabinet resolved in
May 2018 to revoke section 100 of the Constitution in the province. The Cabinet set up an interministerial team to conduct assessment processes.
Of note is that is for the first time in the history of intervention since 1994, where the National Executive were to intervene in such a large scale of about ten provincial departments. This confirms the organised corruption that was orchestrated by the ANC government in the North West province.
Nothing has been achieved by these interventions as the perpetrators are still out there and not in jail. Previous
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 79 interventions were in few departments, in the case of the
North West, demonstrate that not only intervention was needed but a complete takeover by the National government.
The committee visited the province in 2018, and adopted the report on 30 October 2018, where it resolved that the intervention was indeed warranted and there must be continuous monitoring on regular basis and further made recommendations for the interministerial task team, IMTT, to implement. It is for this reason that the ad hoc committee decided to conduct a follow up oversight visit between 15 and 18 March 2020.
Chairperson, the Constitution provides that the National executive may intervene by taking any appropriate steps to ensure the fulfilment of the obligation and provide the executive authority at the national level as is invested in the President who must exercise together with the other members of the Cabinet when performing executive functions provided in the Constitution.
Chairperson, to demonstrate that the intervention has not achieved much, the executive has not acted since its inception in the key areas that needed attention in that province. As we speak, about 28 senior managers are still facing charges and disciplinary processes related to financial misconduct, fraud
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 80 and corruption and they are still not in jail or expelled. All that we hear is that the forensic investigations are still under way.
The National Prosecuting Authority together with the
Directorate for Priority Crimes Investigations are pursuing 51 criminal cases related to public funds in the North West, and only 10 has been concluded with unsatisfactory results without a single senior manager being sentenced to a jail term. The province has again reported irregular expenditure of about
R3,4 billion. The Asset Forfeiture Unit has not recovered even a cent in priority cases in their disposal. Chairperson, the collapse of government structures happens when the supply chain management, financial controls, high levels of accruals, failure to manage contracts, fraud and corruption happens due to senior officials not adhering to procurement processes.
There is a high vacancy rate especially at managerial level, collapse of services in hospitals together with not providing services to the local clinics. The emergency medical services are underresourced and incapacitated. Chairperson, all the key areas that are mentioned are still not resolved for the North
West province to be back on its feet and provide services to our people. A single intervention headed by an opposition
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 81 parties should be established as ANC has failed. I thank you,
Chairperson.
Ms B P SHIBA (Mpumalanga – MEC: COGTA): Hon Chairperson of the
National Council of Provinces, hon Masondo; the Deputy
Chairperson of the NCOP, hon Lucas; the chairperson of the select committee, hon Dodovu, Minister of Co-operative
Governance and Traditional Affairs, Cogta, Mom Nkosazana
Dlamini-Zuma; the Deputy Minister of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, hon Bapela; hon members of the select committee; permanent and special delegates to the NCOP; my colleagues members of the executive council, MECs, that are present; the secretary to the NCOP and officials, good morning.
The provincial government led by the premier, has the constitutional obligation to provide services to the community effectively and timeously. Section 125 of the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa, 1996, mandates the premier to amongst others, exercise the executive authority, together with the other members of the executive council, by implementing provincial legislation in the province; and implementing all national legislation within the functional areas listed in Schedule 4 or 5, except where the Constitution
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 82 or an Act of Parliament provides otherwise. The above mentioned section is a relevant and important provision in the
Constitution, hon Chairperson, because provincial governments functionality is measured against their ability to perform their constitutional obligations to the citizens in their respective provinces.
In summary, section 100 just as it is supported in section
139(7) of the Constitution provides that, if a province cannot or does not fulfil an executive obligation in terms of the
Constitution or legislation, it becomes necessary that the national executive intervenes by taking any appropriate steps to ensure fulfilment of that obligation, including assuming responsibility for the relevant obligation in that province to the extent necessary to maintain essential national standards or meet established minimum standards for the rendering of a service and to maintain the economic unity.
We are here to share our views on the intervention that was necessary and constitutional to rescue the ailing service delivery machinery for the people of the North West province.
The report before us presents all the steps taken so far and tabulate specific areas of achievements and those that are
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 83 still outstanding. These are welcome, not only to this House, but to the community of the North West province.
We must also welcome and take full cognizance and care that the targeted directives and close monitoring takes place to avoid any chances for regression which may negatively taint the stability that has been achieved. Continued monitoring, reporting and the evaluation of progress and impact achieved should be adopted to standard operation procedures. Of particular interest as well is the support that the province should continuously receive through its Department of Co- operative Governance and Traditional Affairs to stabilise municipalities through the District Development Model approach.
Hon members, I am convinced as much as we are convinced in the
Mpumalanga province that the North West province has much to benefit in turning the tide against the teething and stubborn service delivery challenges. Other areas for support that should not escape closest monitoring and should always be placed on the oversight radar include the following: Building in-house institutional capacity, and capability in the
Department of Human Settlements to enable it to successfully run its own affairs and to relieve it from over-reliance on
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 84 its performance monitoring unit, PMU. A close monitoring and pressing of the implementation pedal to deal decisively with criminal cases.
The hostility towards the intervention is unwarranted and should be avoided at all costs and the administration should further ensure that the disciplinary processes are dealt with decisively without fail and that all transgressions should accordingly be brought to book in order to justify that wrong doing can never be tolerated and does not pay. We must also agree with the highlighted areas of achievements which include, amongst others, the filling of key management posts to improve the capacity for service delivery, the termination of wasteful and poorly managed outsourcing contracts and empowerment of officials to do the work they were employed for, and the turnaround in audit outcomes that resulted in improved opinions for the first time in five years. These are positive developments that we should all welcome and must be applauded.
Hon Chairperson and members, the report also highlights some outstanding matters that are handed to the next administration to further pursue and fulfil. Of particular to note, is the appointment of the director-general and the establishment of
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 85 an effective provincial labour relations framework. These I have particularly noted because they form the critical basis for stability and labour harmony in an institution. Since we do this exercise today when it is the Africa Public Service
Day to honour all the committed public servants who continue to serve the people of this country.
Chairperson, let me share with you the words of encouragement by Margareth Chase Smith who was the first woman to serve in both Houses of the United States Congress who once said and I quote:
My creed is that the public service must be more than
doing a job efficiently and honestly. It must be a
complete dedication to the people and to the nation with
full recognition that every human being is entitled to
the courtesy and consideration, that constructive
criticism is not only to be expected but sought, that
smears are not only to be expected but fought and that
honour is to be earned not bought.
As I conclude hon Chairperson, this Report does not only provide the relief and hope for the people of the North West province but a lesson for all Provinces and their
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 86 administrations. The Report is welcomed. I thank you,
Chairperson.
Afrikaans:
Mnr S F DU TOIT: Dankie, agb Voorsitter.
English:
Does the North West province and, in effect, the country have a responsible government? The Citizen, 24 April 2018 “Violent
North West protests spread to different parts of the province.” The ANC is still in talks on ways to address the matter of the North West Premier possibly stepping down”, says the party’s secretary-general.” News 24, “Police in the province are investigating a case of murder after a 16-year- old dies during protest action on Monday.” The SA National
Defence Force, SANDF, intervened in the province to ensure the medical health depot in Mahikeng was secure. Twenty-two hospitals and 400 clinics in the province were effected as a result of the strike. News 24, also reported in 2018 that protest action, looting flaring up around South Africa.
Violence spreading to other towns in North West province, with residents demanding Premier Supra Mahumapelo step down. Then the Mail and Guardian, 9 May 2021, “Doctors unable to entre
North West hospital as protest action continues. Wikipedia
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 87 states that South Africa has been dubbed the protest capital of the world, with one of the highest rates of public protests in the world. Why is this?
Afrikaans:
Die ANC maak weer geskiedenis en weer is dit nie iets goed nie. Uit die ad hoc-komitee verslag is dit duidelik dat die rede vir die ingryping deur die Kabinet in die
Noordwesprovinsie is die verval van regeringstelsel strukture in die Noordwesprovinsie wat daarop tot gewelddadige protesaksie gelei het. Dit was die eerste keer sedert 1994 dat
’n provinsie in Suid-Afrika onder administrasie geplaas word.
Skandelik! Daar is veronderstel om kundiges te wees.
Nie net word die provinsie onder administrasie geplaas nie, maar administrateurs word ook in sommige van die departemente, soos byvoorbeeld Gesondheid, die Kantoor van die Premier, die
Departement van Gemeenskapsveiligheid en Vervoer en die departemente van Menslike ... en Openbare Werke in die provinsie aangestel.
English:
These are departments that are responsible for service delivery, health, safety, roads and at the end of the day, job
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 88 creation in the province. What was the reason for the unrest and demise? According to the report it was the collapse of governance systems and structures. But why? How did it happen?
It happened as a result of a failed political leadership, self-enrichment, cadre deployment, absence of consequence management, underperformance, greed and a total disrespect for fellow South Africans.
About 60% of the challenges experienced in municipalities is as a result of political instability, with the emphasis of the
ANC’s political instability. What sanction was instituted of remedial action that was taken against the premier under who’s watch the province crumbled to the shameful state it is currently in? The reward former Premier Mahumapelo became a
Member of Parliament in the National Assembly and heads the
ANC’s political school. In effect, it can be interpreted that
ANC cadres are being schooled in the art of corruption and state capture. Well, most of the violent protest action stopped when the premier stepped down and when he was removed as premier.
It is evident that the intervention has not yielded the anticipated results. Sect 139 interventions in municipalities, for the period September 2018 to December 2019, cost the
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 89 province R35 million. The cost to date have not yet been determined. in February 2021, the National Treasury reported the cost of the section 100 intervention into the North West province amounted to R70,1 million
Chair, the intervention came at a cost to the country.
Problems are persisting in the provincial legislature and not all the important vacant positions have been filled since
2018. Underspending in some departments is still taking place.
When MECs were questioned about this, one MEC replied by saying if less of the budget is spent, less financial irregularities can take place.
Afrikaans:
Daar is heelwat sake wat tans deur die Valke en die Spesiale
Ondersoekeenheid ondersoek word, maar ’n versoek deur die VF
Plus dat die finansiële forensiese oudit in J B Marks
Munisipaliteit gedoen word, is toe deur die komitee van die hand gewys ten spyte daarvan dat sekere aangeleenthede in ander munisipaliteite wel ondersoek word. Dit is weereens ’n bewys dat daar selektiewe ondersoeke plaasvind en sekere kaders moontlik beskerm word om die beeld van die ANC te beskerm.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 90 English:
Political interference is still a major challenge. Continuing with the intervention will not necessarily resolve the matter.
There is a problem in the North West province, yes. The FF
Plus therefor suggest that the legislature be dissolved and new members be elected. Section 109 of the Constitution does allow for that to happen.
Afrikaans:
Die Ouditeur-Generaal se verslag het onlangs aangedui dat munisipale finansies in menige munisipaliteite in die Noordwes vreeslik swak is. ’n Verdere vermorsing van belastingbetalers se fondse mag nie toegelaat word nie, en dus ondersteun die VF
Plus glad nie hierdie verslag nie. Dankie, Voorsitter.
Mr M S CWAILE (NORTH WEST- MEC: COOPERATIVE GOVERNANCE, HUMAN
SETTLEMENTS & TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS): Hon Chair, protocol observed, hon, Minister of Department of Co-operative
Governance and Traditional Affairs, Cogta, and hon members, in
April 2018, Cabinet resolved on invocation of section 100 on
North West. It was necessitated by challenges emanating from the work of the executive council - unlike many of the other section 100 either in the Free State, Eastern Cape or Gauteng provinces focussing on certain departments. it was not only
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 91 targeted on specific departments, but at the generalised matters affecting the province as a whole and it was not as per invite, but decision in response to the challenges that were enveloping our province.
Today’s debates are happening three years after invocation of section 100 which remains in place since from the fifth North
West provincial government. In December 2011, similar intervention was deemed necessary for Limpopo with the provincial Treasury, Education, Health, Public Works, Roads and Transport taken over and the National Treasury effectively taking oversight from the provincial Treasury in respect of all departments, and not only those under administration. In case of North West, the provincial Treasury is remaining with the responsibility of oversight as its prerogative and competence, signalling that the circumstances and scenarios are not similar and that the material conditions of the North
West province are not as worse as it was the case with
Limpopo. The intervention in Limpopo was ended or terminated on and around July 2014, after three years, with the then
Minister of Finance saying Limpopo was a learning curve for
South Africa and that it would be used as a reference point for government. At the time, the collapse of governance was a new thing to the democratic South Africa and it was also
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 92 acknowledged by the NCOP at the time. But how the Treasury has responded and turned the situation around was applaudable.
Hon Chair, when the national Treasury left Limpopo, it insisted that the premier should let it be known to his officials that the heads of departments, HODs, were inheriting the liability and responsibility of what happened during the course of administration under section 100(1)(b). At the time it was agreed by the NCOP Finance committee that it should be on a rare basis that such an intervention is implemented.
Hon Chair, flowing from this experience and contemplation of the Constitution that there would be a promulgation of the legislative framework for the guidance and the creation of regulatory faculty on the implementation of section 100 as well as section 139 Bill is developed for this purpose.
Hopeful, that once concluded, we would have a means through which section 100 and section 139 of the Constitution would be guided. Where we are we know we are just in the trial and error. A delayed promulgation of the legislation to guide section 100 did not necessarily make the section 100 intervention difficult. We, as a provincial government, are of the view that section 100 has succeeded despite few of other presenting challenges. To respond to some hiccups, section 36
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 93 of Public Finance Management Act, PFMA, was used, amongst others, for the provincial Treasury to appoint administrators as accounting officers noting that heads of departments are appointed in terms of Public Service Act and automatically assume accounting officer’s responsibility in terms of section
39 but any official other than head of department can become accounting officer in terms of section 36 of PFMA, not only for purpose of administration but also when HOD fails in terms of section 38 of the PFMA under exceptional circumstances.
Hon Chair and hon members, it is my submission today in this
House that progress has been recorded since section 100 invocation and that the NCOP in its interaction with law enforcements on 11 June 2021, took note of the progress being done on tackling all allegations of corruption, malfeasance and maladministration even if the progress is slow. That it remains work in progress and that it does not mean work of law enforcement agencies and institutions supporting democracy come to an end, it does not mean that but they have to focus only on what has happened in the past as it is necessary to continue to unfold not only for present times but also for the future.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 94 Filling of senior managers’ posts continues and progress is being recorded on this area. Appreciating that the challenges for which section 100 was invoked flows from the fifth North
West provincial administration, a test is whether or not the sixth North West provincial administration executive council has equally failed on its mandate. Has that been tested? A critical test is whether or not continued section 100 intervention that does not get reduced in its intensity or strength, does not hold potential to undermine prospects of sustainability of redress made by the section 100 administration. Isn’t time for weaning off the administration or engaging on conditional handover which may include section
100(1)(a), allowing supervision of national departments and some form of mitigation against possible relapse?
Hon members the semi-federal system of national government with nine provincial governments was a set up made as a compromise during the Convention for a Democratic South
Africa, Codesa, and related multilateral engagements when some parties insisted on their own autonomous or independent geographical space, and we know these provinces are funded through division of nationally generated revenue and not even able to fund themselves, and just like municipalities, and – of course the Constitution provides for their oversight,
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 95 especially by the national government provides a rare opportunity that we can agree on either weaning off or conditional hand over.
Whereas section 100 intervention was necessary and doing well even in the face of some challenges, it would be not in the interest and spirit of the Constitution to seek to permanentise it particularly over the present electoral period of the sixth North West provincial administration. It is overshadowing the sixth North West provincial administration even when it is no longer for redress especially when it is only for sustainability of what has been achieved because such sustainability should help in the institutionalisation of capacity and transfer responsibilities and build internal or localised capabilities.
Hon Chair, it would be an error, a serious constitutional omission not to seek to enable the province to manage its affairs with national government playing oversight. The intervention should be supported even with allocation of funds so that the intervention itself should not only depend and use resources made available for services. This is a request that could be made to financial and fiscal commission established through the Financial and Fiscal Commission Act, Act 99 of
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 96 1997, flowing from section 214 of the Constitution to provide for proactive, expert and independent advice on promoting a sustainable and equitable intergovernmental fiscal system,
IGFR, system, through evidence-based policy analysis to ensure the realisation of our constitutional values that any continued and permanentised intervention would undermine.
The discussion paper on the proposed principles and objectives of the local government equitable share formula may need to be taken to logical conclusion to give relevancy to the intended redress efforts on the municipalities. Importantly, challenges enveloping the municipalities are being responded to and IGFR multidisciplinary teams made up of national and provincial government departments and other state agencies have put in place progressive plan of action [Time expired.] Thank you very much, hon Chair.
Mr D R RYDER: Mr Chairperson, as I worked through this report,
I thought back on the long hours of meetings and the substantial commitment of time and resources that each member of this committee, and the support staff, have put in to the process since we started. I considered the long hours, and felt decidedly underwhelmed by what we have achieved to date.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 97 Hon Dodovu’s introduction today also voiced the frustration with the slow progress that we have made.
I went back into the Parliamentary Monitoring Group, PMG, records of our meetings — and perhaps let me acknowledge the
PMG and their excellent work done in service of democracy — but while going through the records and discussing them with colleagues, the realisation dawned that we were an ad-hoc committee without clear direction. We have a star studded cast, but there is no plot.
This committee has picked up the reins from our predecessors in the Fifth Parliament, without adequately reviewing our purpose or our focus. We jumped on the bus and forged ahead without a clear destination in mind. The result has been hours of review of process, without a scorecard to mark it by or a goal-line in sight.
Hon Visser was quite right in her speech earlier. The key performance areas and more specifically key performance indicators of the administrators need to be set, with the inputs of our committee, so that we can properly monitor the impact and effects of this section 100 intervention.
Especially in light of the absence of the subservient
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 98 legislation demanded by paragraph 100.3 of the Constitution, as pointed out by MEC Cwaile. We need to know what the intervention is hoping to achieve. Only then will we be able to properly evaluate progress and determine whether the intervention has fulfilled its mandate.
At this stage we are merely a confessional, where we hear the sins of the weak, and send them away to do a token penance, with no real means of checking. With no measure or consequence. If we carry on as we have, we will continue to hear tales of woe. We will read the litany of failures of government in this province and be ashamed by the shenanigans of the factions at war, and the Minister’s admissions in this regard, with her defeatist: “I’ll leave it at that” ringing in our ears.
Chairperson, I must emphasise at this point that section 100 interventions, like section 139 interventions, cannot be used as a tool to address a lack of political leadership or internal political problems. Such issues must be dealt with separately to make space for administrative interventions to work effectively to provide services to the people. Again, hon
Dodovu implied this in his speech, but it needs to be stated
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 99 clearly. Yet, the Minister’s tone-deafness was again demonstrated by her obvious choice of headdress.
The facts that hon Sileku put forward cannot be refuted and yet they touched certain members on their studios. We need to get past the politics. I loved the quote put forward by MEC
Shiba. We should all remember that we are here to make sure that we improve the lives of our residents.
If we indeed agree to the extension of this process, then we must re-chart our future by setting out explicit terms of reference, by determining goals and landmarks and by knowing what it is that we are measuring. Only then do we stand a chance of succeeding. Thank you, Chair.
Mr Y I CARRIM: Chairperson, Minister, Deputy Minister, MECs, comrades and friends, let us be clear that the North West has not been functioning effectively and fulfilling its executive obligations is bad and sad. That the national government had to effect a section 100 intervention as necessary as this is unfortunate.
But this failure to government is not just a reflection on the provincial government and provincial legislature, it is also a
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 100 crucial reflection on us as the NCOP. What are we if not a national forum to advance the needs and interests of the provinces in the national sphere? If the national government has to intervene in a province, it also reflects on the failure of the NCOP to effectively fulfil our oversight as our colleagues from the opposition parties should also urgently note.
We are not a federal state but a unitary state with provinces that are constitutionally enshrined powers and functions. In terms of our co-operative governance system, each sphere is going to grow stronger the more it operates with the other two spheres. So, if a province fails it reflects on the failure of the other two spheres to play their roles effectively. Not only the national government must take some measure of responsibility for the failure of a province to function, so too must the national legislature, in particular the NCOP.
We are not a federal state. We can’t look from high up from the centre as it were and say that’s their problem, the North
West’s problem, let them stew as you might if you were a federal state. No, we are a co-operative governance system. We are all in this together.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 101 Who are the main victims of a failure of provincial government to work if not ordinary citizens? Once again, disproportionately the poor and the disadvantaged. The very same citizens, mind you, that vote for us in national elections. The very same citizens that we are constitutionally and morally obliged to support and serve.
Say a province doesn’t work, our own workers at national
Parliament, the NCOP in particular is undermined. In other words, for the national Parliament to work the provincial legislatures and the provincial government have to work. So it is we said in our report that the national government is under a constitutional duty to assist provinces by legislative and other means to develop the administrative capacity required for the effective exercise of the executive authority of implementing inter alia provincial legislation and all national legislation within their functional areas as listed in schedules 4 and 5 of the Constitution.
Also, as we mention repeatedly, the Constitution makes provision for the national government to intervene if a province fails to fulfil its executive obligations. So, our report notes that there needs to be and I quote, “far more effective co-operation in the NCOP committees and our
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 102 counterparts in provincial legislators so that both the NCOP and the legislatures are far more effective in our oversight of the provincial executives thereby reducing the prospects of section 100 intervention.”
It is this co-operative governance system that can facilitate the developmental state that the Minister referred to. A developmental state is difficult to effect in a federal structure as against a wonderful system we have in theory but of course in practice of co-operative governance it doesn’t work the way it should. Not least because we, in the NCOP, have also responsibilities in that regards that perhaps we are not fulfilling.
Ms Visser goes on and on about the problem almost as if we are hiding it. Yet, on the other hand Mr Fanie Du Toit refers to press statements that constantly referrer to the crisis that the North West confronted before the intervention, and to some extent, it still experiences those challenges. So, you can’t hide these things, Ms Visser, nobody is. I mean it doesn’t help to melodramatise it because it is out there in reality the media will not run away from it. Suddenly it is the civil society action, it is the civic associations and ordinary
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 103 citizens that very lastly prompted this intervention by their actions on the ground.
You say the ... [Inaudible.] ... should have been acted on sooner or before collapse. Again, you see it is an anomaly,
Chairperson. On the one hand the DA will insist on the autonomy of the province, they want this provincial system and so is the FF Plus, and yet on the other hand they say intervene, intervene! And then they will complain that the national government’s intervening unduly.
For example, it would be very interesting to know Chairperson, if the intervention was in the Western Cape, would the DA be so keen for interventions too soon? Yet, we all agreed with the Minister and the Department of Cogta that there is a need for early warning signs. This has been on the agenda of government and Parliament for years now. We say that the NCOP, through the Select Committee on Cogta, needs to develop a framework based on our experience and understanding of the
North West intervention and other section 100 interventions on how we more effectively monitor the provinces so that we are better able to pick up early warning signs of a province’s faulty governance that might lead to a section 100 intervention.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 104 The aim of such a framework would include trying to prevent a province deteriorating to the extent that the section 100 intervention becomes necessary. The lessons learned from these interventions, including what measures work, need to be part of this framework and Ms Visser very well know because she was in the committee yesterday when we chose to put that in.
In our report we actually note that quick fixers do not always work. The Minister spoke of ... I thought she put it very evocatively, it is a marathon and not a sprint. Instead of ending up with these long interventions as a last resort, let us focus more on early warning systems. We agree with the DA and others who have said it and of course both the national government and provincial government have to play their part but so too must we as the NCOP.
Now, Ms Visser goes on about the extension may need new terms.
Maybe she is right. I’m sure ... [Inaudible.] ... the
Minister, but presumably they are open to that idea, they do not want to be there anymore, then you want them to be there,
Ms Visser. I mean Cogta has thousand different responsibilities, the local elections are coming up and so on.
So, they are only there because they have to be there. You ask who brings what? That is why, the legislation is pending. As
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 105 the Minister explained, the Bill is being processed as you, yourself will jump up and down, it has to be consulted with.
For example, the Constitution section 1454, as the former chairperson of Salga you will remember or maybe I got this wrong, but it requires every Bill affecting the functions of local government to be negotiated with the local government.
We say also in the report which you are a part of, Ms Visser, that there is a lack of co-operation, team work, co-ordination and interdepartmental relation among all structures and role- players to more ensure effective implementation of section 100 intervention blah blah blah. What we are basically admitting to is that there is a need for a greater differential roles and responsibilities of the different actions in the intervention.
I want to think that yes the local elections are coming up so we are all politicise it, but we are the National Council of
Provinces and not the National Assembly. There needs to be a greater degree of provincialism across political party divides that need to prevail here. So, we all need to work together to make this province function as it should.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 106 Now, Mr Du Toit goes on and on about our internal divisions.
That too is something the ANC admits that our own internal divisions have contributed and need to be addressed in order for the province to function. Just google, Mr Du Toit. Nobody is hiding that.
What is outrageous, Chairperson, probably the most outrageous thing I have heard in this term of Parliament, Mr Du Toit says that he thinks we are being schooled by the ANC in the art of corruption. If that is what he said, then it is outrageous,
Chairperson. Where is the evidence for that? If he says that then I could retort and say well, how will he feel if any of the ANC comrades said that the FF Plus doesn’t nothing more than school its members and supporters out there on racism or return to apartheid? Basically I think it was an outrageous thing to say.
Then he wants the legislation dissolved. That is something that he suggested the national government or the NCOP might want to do. Absolutely not! Here is the FF Plus, they demanded these provinces as the MEC of the North West said. It came while it was a consent to them, the DA and the National Party of the time. Now he wants a national legislative to dissolve the provinces. You can’t do that; and it unconstitutional and
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 107 absurd. You wanted the provincial system and you have it.
Respect democracy Mr Fanie Du Toit.
Now we go on to say that Mr Sileku and so on they use such strong words to describe the failures in the province. They reduce it ultimately to a subjective failure as if it is something inherent in people, a lack of a moral compass or the capacity to root, rather than looking also at the system that
... [Inaudible.]
Before we end Chair, I also add my words of deep regret at
Comrade Kaunda’s death, the former President of Zambia and acknowledge, as we all must, whichever party we come from, his enormous contribution to the end of apartheid and to the continent not least to his own country Zambia.
We must not forget that the chairperson of this committee, Mr
China Dodovu, may I also on behalf of the members of the committee to the extent they allow me to say that in fact he has done a very sterling job. I mean he has been pushing and driving us and I only plead with him not to meet on certain days because of clashes with other committees but he goes ahead because he was very driven. So, may I also acknowledge his contribution.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 108 Chairperson, there is plenty more that could in fact be brought out to Mr Dodovu ... [Time expired.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Thank you very much, hon Carrim.
[Inaudible.] ... We will now allow the hon Ngwezi to come back. The hon Ngwezi, are you there?
Mr X NGWEZI: Yes, hon Chairperson of the NCOP.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE NCOP: I wish to raise the matter again and I wish to put it on record.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Yes, Chief Whip.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE NCOP: Chairperson, I have said in the past, if a member of this House is experiencing any problems whatsoever, the Chief Whip of the Council should be notified about the matter. When we order speaking lists, it is ordered with the strength of parties that they occupy in the House. It was not by mistake that the hon Carrim was to close and be the last speaker prior to the Chair of the committee in terms of the ordering of the list.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 109 So, I am saying Chair, if you accept what the hon Ngwezi is doing, it will set wrong precedents. If it is accepted today on the strength of the significance of the report to hear the views of other parties, I would agree, it can be accepted.
However, it is incorrect to disrupt the order of the speakers list, other than members taking responsibility at the time they are required to speak to do so. Thanks.
IsiZulu:
USIHLALO WENDLU YOMKHANDLU KAZWELONKE WEZIFUNDAZWE: Onendlebe ke uzwile. Masimyeke ke uNgwezi akhulume.
English:
Mr X NGWEZI: Hon Chairperson. May I please address you.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Please speak, hon Ngwezi.
Mr X NGWEZI: Hon Chairperson, I have had heard the concerns by the Chief Whip. Even the last time such happened. I heard his concerns. I did not want to respond on that day. You know, hon
Chair ...
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms S E Lucas): Order, hon
Ngwezi. Order. Continue.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 110 The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Ngwezi can you continue and speak very briefly so that the message is not lost. Please proceed!
Mr K M MMOIEMANG: But hon Chair!
Ms C LABUSCHAGNE: Hon Chair!
Mr X NGWEZI: It is not my own making. The ANC is failing to provide electricity in the country! It is not my fault! We have no electricity this side!
Mr C F B SMIT: That is a very valid point.
Mr X NGWEZI: It is not my fault! What do you want me to do?
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms S E Lucas): Continue.
The Chairperson, is giving you the opportunity to debate.
Mr X NGWEZI: [Inaudible.] ... If you take me too far, I can be like this, hon Chairperson!
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms S E Lucas): We are not fighting with you, hon, Ngwezi. The Chairperson said you must
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 111 take part in the debate. Participate and leave the other things!
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Ngwezi, I have asked you to speak.
Mr X NGWEZI: There is electricity problems in KwaZulu-Natal.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: The question of electricity cannot be used as an excuse.
Mr X NGWEZI: Chair, you live in the Ugu District Municipality.
I stay at Empangeni, Chair.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: The question of electricity cannot be used over and over again. So, let us not get into that. Hon Ngwezi, please speak.
Ms C LABUSCHAGNE: No, no, this is wrong.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Thank you very much we will then proceed without the hon Ngwezi. The hon Dodovu.
Mr X NGWEZI: Chair, I am staring with my speech now.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 112 The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Yes, but do not give us speeches about electricity and so on.
Mr X NGWEZI: I have long past that, Chair.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: It is neither here nor there.
Proceed.
Mr X NGWEZI: Hon Chairperson, this report shows the total collapse of government and stealing of public funds by individuals who seem to think that they are entitled to this money. We alarmingly see that those in power do not respect the mechanisms for accountability and good governance in the
Constitution of our people. They do not fear any consequences of their actions. In fact, they attempt to defeat the ends of justice by suffocating processes of consequence management to either shield themselves or their comrades from the rule of law.
In this case, service delivery has been almost nonexistent to the people of North West. The people of North West province have felt the frustrating effects of being denied service delivery. Thanks to the national government, although it acted
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 113 quite very late. Being denied services means that those in power are guilty of wrongdoing.
We continuously sound the call for those who have shown disrespect to the law to be held to account. It is clear that this government has no interest in holding government officials and politicians to account for their actions. In fact, the ruling party turn those who have stolen from the people in to types of celebrities as is prevalent in the example of the Zondo Commission.
The IFP calls on for urgent intervention of a National
Provincial Task Team to be established under Chapter 9 of the
Constitution, to investigate corruption and service delivery problems in each province. It needs to be given powers to subpoena any individual under the direction of the Office of the Chief Justice for purposes of investigation. Arrest individuals who have been found to collude with government officials, politicians or any employee of the state to defraud or mismanage any arm of government.
As opposition parties, we have alerted government and
Parliament to the mismanagement of the North West and other provinces in this country, yet government officials such as
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 114 Ministers, Premiers, MECs, etc, do not take the call of our alarm seriously. In fact, it is the biggest joke to them as they politicise our warnings and think the people of South
Africa do not deserve a government that can deliver.
This report on the North West province is a clear example in black and white of what we as the opposition have been flagging for years. Yet today, we will sit here and listen to those who have something to benefit by the mismanagement of this province as we have seen from the MEC of that province.
When they pretend to be shocked, write checks for their comrades to bail them out of the turmoil and provide empty promises to say that there will be consequence management, only for this issue to be forgotten by the time this House adjourns.
The people of this country must take the change in the next local government elections and choose the IFP which is the only party that has a culture of offering respect to citizens, has a track record of good governance, takes actions when officials are alleged of wrongdoing and does not cover up employees who falsify their qualifications.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 115 Again I should thank you Chairperson, for having finally intervened in the North West. I urge government that when calls are made in the future for other provinces, we must quickly attend to those issues before we face a similar situation like the North West. Hon Chairperson, thank you very much and for allowing me to debate. Sorry to the Chief Whip to disturb his plan on how this House must run. Thank you.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: You must thank the NCOP. Thank you very much. The hon Dodovu!
Mr T S C DODOVU: Chairperson, thank you very much for the opportunity. In the first place I would like to express our collective and further appreciation to the speakers who debated the report today, both positive and negative aspects of the debate. As a committee we have taken note of those because they can only strengthen us in terms of doing our job and in terms of making sure that we fulfil the assignment that the House has given to us. We really want to thank the speakers for that opportunity to listen to them even if sometimes the criticisms were unfair or unjustifiable and they were unwarranted.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 116 In the main, we would like to thank the national government for taking a proactive step to intervene in the North West when things were very, very bad to ensure that at the end of the day there is stability, the North West government fulfils its executive obligations under the Constitution, like all other provinces. I think this is what is very good.
At the time when national government intervened, it is clear that almost everything was bad in the North West. The financial management systems had collapsed. And since the national government has come in, it has stabilised that important area of financial management. That there is accountability and that there is improvement and the National
Treasury has demonstrated that since the intervention things have started shaping up very, very well in the North West province. And on that score we heartily thank the national government for that intervention.
At the time when there was this intervention, it is clear that the audit opinions of all the provincial departments were not good. Wasteful expenditure, fruitless expenditure, unauthorised expenditure as well as irregular expenditure, all of those were skyrocketing and the departments were not complying in terms of what was expected from doing them.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 117 The report of the Auditor-General, AG, today is showing positive signs of development, it is showing positive signs of delivery, it’s showing positive signs of improvement of the audit opinions.
And as we indicated in the report, we want to, once more, register the fact that the national government needs to attend to the issues of human settlements because out of all the departments showing the improvement that was there, human settlements has regressed and this particular area needs to be given the necessary attention. And we are happy that the national government has identified this as a problem that needs urgent attention. On that score we say, all the processes need to be expedited to ensure that housing delivery happens because once you provide housing to the people of the
North West, you provide them with water and we also provide them with access to sanitary facilities; and we would like to welcome that particular point.
As we pointed out in our report, we welcome the emergence of stability that we see in different departments. One of the priorities of the national government, under the leadership of
Dr Nkosazana Zuma, was to ensure that all the positions are filled at a senior level, as it was indicated.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 118 The director-general, on a substantive basis in the North
West, has been appointed. That three Heads of Departments,
HODs, in the Department of Agriculture, Department of Health and Department of Social Development have been filled.
And we, again, further, looking forward to ensure that all other positions are filled. But we also raised and we need to impress this particular point about the fact that they need to be capacitated and capacity development need to happen so that the national government, at a time that they exit the North
West province, they leave a very strong legacy in terms of service delivery and accountability. And that can only be achieved if that particular area is given the necessary attention; and we welcome that.
We also welcome the fact that the national government is prioritising the promulgation of the new legislation that will ensure that interventions are done in a consistent, coherent and balanced way, and there is a modality that government follows in cases that there is an invocation of section 100 in all the provinces. And that will necessarily apply in respect of municipalities where in which section 139 interventions are invoked by the provincial government. This, in our view, we
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 119 think it will go a long way in terms of dealing with those particular issues.
Lastly, Chairperson, I want to talk to how we did our work as a committee. We were robust, we were clear in terms of our articulations, we were exercising independence and we were looking at issues, not from party political point of view, but as true representatives of this particular House, we worked in unison; and I think in the main we agreed with the thrust of this report and we agreed that the challenges that are facing the North West province need to be dealt with appropriately; and we all agreed in unison that we needed to extricate the
North West province from the quagmire that it was finding itself in; and this, we agreed as political parties but I don’t know what has happened, at the time that we adopted the report some political parties summersaulted.
I don’t know what has happened when we are debating here; is it because now we are going to the Local Government Elections?
Because in the main, political parties are now showing their colours, they pander into political populism, they attack the report, they direct vitriolic attacks to all the good work that we have secured; and I don’t think that this is a good
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 120 spirit in which we must attend to the issues that are facing us.
But that will not deter us, we will move forward and we are grateful of the strides that the national government has made under Dr Nkosazana Zuma. Throughout the process the
Inter-Ministerial Task Team under her leadership was able to intervene, was able to help the committee, was able to solve whatever the issues that were facing us and in that sense we really appreciate the contribution that they made, to arrive at a point where we submitted a report before this particular
House.
But going forward, hon Chairperson, I think what has happened in the North West should be a lesson for the country. It should be something that must never happen again, it must be something that must be avoided, that a provincial government acted in the way that the provincial government of the North
West acted; we don’t need that.
Our people are yearning for service delivery, our people are yearning for better and quality education, they are yearning for healthcare facilities, they are yearning for road infrastructure and this is what the government, at all
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 121 material times, must do, to ensure that whatever it does, it doesn’t plunder the resources of the state, it doesn’t pillage what is not belonging to them and those who are entrusted with the leadership responsibilities must act in a way that will emulate two regions that we visited in the course of our oversight work, we went to the Dr Kenneth Kaunda region and today we all paying homage to Dr Kenneth Kaunda for the indelible contribution that he made in bringing about freedom, not only to South Africa but throughout the African continent, and we are saying that whatever that we do, let the leadership at those levels emulate his example, emulate his virtue and emulate the way he would had loved us to behave and do things when we are appointed or elected in the leadership position.
But equally as we pointed out, we were in the Ngaka Modiri
Molema region; an important region that was named after the former Treasurer-General of the ANC. Dr Ngaka Modiri Molema made an indelible too, in terms of the liberation of this country and wherever he is, he would turn in his grave because his forebears are not doing what is expected of them.
On that particular note - as I indicated - we would like to thank everybody including the staff that was all available for us, to give service to us, to ensure that we take this
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 122 particular process to the majestic heights and in that case, we really want to thank everybody else. On that way, thank you very much.
As I indicated, hon Chairperson, this particular debate has enriched us, has enlightened us and going forward for the implication of the future perspective we would know in terms of how we must deal with the issues and the challenges of the hour in the way that they will inspire us, they will serve as an inspiration ... [Time expired.] ... to do better, to ensure that we achieve our ultimate objectives. On that note, yes, indeed, thank you very much, hon Chairperson. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
Question put.
Voting.
Report accordingly agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 123 CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON TRANSPORT,
PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION, PUBLIC WORKS AND
INFRASTRUCTURE
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Thank you, Chairperson,
I’m here. We are continuing, and thank you very much to those that participated in the previous debate, it is very important. I must also express our appreciation to the
Minister of Cooperative Governance and Traditional Affairs for her consistency in attending issues around the NCOP. We will now proceed to the Second Order, and that is: Consideration of
Report of Select Committee on transport, public service and administration, public works and infrastructure, thereon. So we will now call on Mr Mosimanegape Kenny Mmoeimang to present the report. Over to you, hon Mmoeimang.
Setswana:
Rre M K MMOEIMANG: Ke a go leboga Motlatsamodulasetilo wa
Khansele ya Bosetšhaba ya Diporofense.
English:
The Select Committee on Transport, Public Service and
Administration, Public Works and Infrastructure is presenting the draft on Minimum Service Delivery Standard, MSDS, in terms
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 124 of section 75(6) of the National Road Traffic Act No 93 of
1996. Hon Deputy Chair, the select committee, having considered the draft minimum standards in relation to the mentioned Act, would like to outline how the processes unfolded.
In terms of section 75(6) of the National Road Traffic Act, before the Minister makes any regulation, the Minister may, if he or she deems it the expedient, cause a draft of the proposed regulation to the published Gazette together with a notice calling upon all interested persons to lodge in writing, and within a period specified in the notice, but not less than four weeks as from the date of publication of the notice, any objections or representations which they would like to raise or make, with the Director-General for the submission to the Minister, provided that, if the Minister thereafter decides to alter the draft regulation as a result of any objections or representations submitted thereon, it shall not be necessary so to publish such alterations before making the regulation.
Hon Chair, just the background. These The Draft Minimum
Service Delivery Standards, is the integral part of the Batho
Pele implementation of those principles. It was prompted by
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 125 the programme of the Presidency in terms of its unannounced visits seeks to service stations, and as a result thereof, giving those unannounced visits, the President Commission, both the Department of Transport, which was identified as a pilot, together with the department of Public Service
Administration, to following those unannounced visits to craft minimum standards that needed to be adhered to in terms of implementing the Batho Pele Principles.
Of course, with the first draft, there were some challenges that we raised, working groups were again created to ensure that indeed, the minimum standards are taken to its logical conclusion. As a result, thereof, Chair, these Draft Minimum
Service Delivery Standards were referred to the committee on
29 January 2021, and the Department of Transport briefed the committee on 9 June 2021. On the same day the Committee deliberated and made the following inputs.
I isolated three inputs. Firstly, was that the Driving License
Testing Centers, DLTCs, should address all the difficulties experienced by the public when renewing licenses. Secondly, that the Department of Transport should create an interface on its website for electronic licenses renewal. Thirdly, that the committee urged provincial departments of transport and
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 126 municipalities to adopt the digital licensing system; and fourthly, that the Department of Transport be urged to roll- out infrastructure to accommodate the accessibility for people living with disabilities.
The department, hon Deputy Chair, was urged to roll-out infrastructure to accommodate these minimum standards, with the view to ensure that there are no stumbling blocks again found in terms of adhering to these minimum standards. Of course, we are mindful of the fact that these minimum standards, also the inputs that the committee made and also the adherence standards across the board, will have financial implications.
Therefore, it is our humble plea that in terms of budgeting the necessary municipalities and provincial transport department must make sure that necessary funding is set aside for the implementation of these minimum standards, as it is the integral part of ensuring that indeed we live the
Principles of Batho Pele. So, therefore, hon Deputy Chair, the committee agreed to these minimum standards that we were referred to it. Therefore, the recommendation that we are putting before the House, hon Deputy Chair, is that this
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 127 report, as it is indicated in terms of these standards, be agreed to. Thank you, Deputy Chair.
Debate concluded.
Question put: That the Report be agreed to.
[Take in from Minutes.]
Report accordingly agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF THE SELECT COMMITTEE ON TRADE AND
INDUSTRY, ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, SMALL BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT,
TOURISM, EMPLOYMENT AND LABOUR ON THE INTERNATIONAL LABOUR
ORGANISATION CONVENTION CONCERNING THE ELIMINATION OF
VIOLENCE AND HARASSMENT IN THE WORLD OF WORK CONVENTION, 2019
(NO. 190), DATED 25 MAY 2021
Mr M I RAYI: Thank you very much hon Deputy Chairperson, greetings to the Chairperson of the NCOP, the Minister of
Cooperative Governance and Traditional Affairs, CoGTA, Members of Executive Council present special delegates and permanent delegates good afternoon. On the 25th May 2021 the committee
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 128 was briefed by the Department of Employment and Labour on the
International Labour Organisation, ILO, Convention concerning the Elimination of Violence and Harassment in the World of
Work Convention, 2019 (No. 190).
The Convention protects workers and other persons in the world of work, including employees as defined by national law and practice, as well as persons working irrespective of their contractual status, persons in training, including interns and apprentices, workers whose employment has been terminated, volunteers, jobseekers and job applicants, and individuals exercising the authority, duties or responsibilities of an employer.
Further, the Convention applies to all sectors, whether private or public, both in the formal and informal economy, and whether in urban or rural areas. The Convention, applies to violence and harassment in the world of work occurring in the course of, linked with or arising out of work.
The instances it covers the following, in the workplace, including public and private spaces where they are a place of work, places where the worker is paid, takes a rest break or a meal, or uses sanitary or washing and changing facilities,
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 129 during work-related trips, travel, training, events or social activities. Through work-related communications, including those enabled by information and communication technologies, in employer-provided accommodation and when commuting to and from work. This instrument covers all types of harm, not only physical but also psychological, sexual or economic harm.
The convention is one of the historic achievements against the fight on gender-based violence. This instrument would enable countries to adopt laws, policies and mechanisms aimed at preventing violence and harassment in the world of work, protecting workers and establishing remedies for victims.
This international instrument was made on 21 June 2019 at the
International Labour Conference. The trade unions, civil society and women’s organisations have longed for this convention.
The responsibilities of employers, which have the primary responsibility to create a work environment free from violence and harassment, as well as the roles and responsibilities of trade unions and workers are clearly defined. This instrument has placed the fight against gender-based violence, particularly the most vulnerable the women at global level.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 130 There isn’t any single piece of international instrument that places the pain of women at international level, like this convention is doing. This instrument recognises the impact of violence and harassment in the world of work, and the right of everyone to a world of work free of violence, including gender-based violence.
Violence and harassment undermine efforts to realise social cohesion. It constraints energies of progressive forces to advocate for decent work. It is a violation of human rights.
The committee unanimously agreed that this House approves the convention. This is one of our historic marks in the fight against gender-based violence in our Society.
Therefore, the Select Committee on Trade and Industry,
Economic Development, Small Business Development, Tourism,
Employment and Labour, having considered the request from the
Department of Labour and Employment for approval by Parliament of the International Labour Organisation (ILO) Convention concerning the Elimination of Violence and Harassment in the
World of Work Convention, 2019 (No. 190), recommends that the
Council, in terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution,
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 131 approve the said Convention. Thank you very much hon Deputy
Chairperson.
Debate concluded.
Question put: That the Report be adopted.
IN FAVOUR: Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal,
Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape, North West, Western Cape.
Report accordingly agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON SECURITY
AND JUSTICE - DRAFT AMENDED REGULATIONS TABLED IN TERMS
OF SECTION 23(2) OF THE LEGAL AID SOUTH AFRICA ACT, 2014
(ACT NO. 39 OF 2014)
Ms S SHAIKH: Thank you very much, hon Deputy Chairperson and greetings to all hon members. Hon Deputy Chairperson, the
Minister of Justice and Correctional Services, on 20 January
2021, tabled in Parliament amendments to a number of
Regulations in terms of the Legal Aid South Africa Act 39 of
2014.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 132 In terms of the Act, the Minister must make regulations relating to the provision of legal aid, instances in civil and criminal matters where legal aid is not provided, provision of limited legal aid and under which circumstances that happens, requirements or criteria that an applicant must comply with in order to qualify for legal aid and terms and conditions on which legal aid is made available to the applicant.
Hon Deputy Chair, the Minister must also make Regulations relating to the policy on the approval or refusal of legal aid, termination of legal aid and appeals against refusal or termination of legal aid and any matter that is necessary or expedient for the proper implementation or administration of the
Legal Aid South Africa Act.
Hon Deputy Chair, the Legal Aid South Africa Act, 2014, also provides that the Minister must make regulations after receiving recommendations from the Legal Aid South Africa Board. Any regulations made must be tabled in Parliament by the Minister for approval before publication in terms of section 23(1) of the
Act.
The Minister has tabled nine amended Regulations that requires
Parliament’s approval before they can be gazetted. The
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 133 amendments proposed are in respect of Regulations; 9, 11, 13,
14, 15, 23, 27, 31 and 32.
The draft amended regulations was referred to the committee on
2 February 2021 and on 10 March the committee was briefed on the amendments noting the following with regard to the Content of amended regulations: Regulation 9 deals with civil matters. The amendment of Regulation 9 provides clarity that, a waiting period can be allowed in civil matters to manage demand for civil legal services. In practice, the waiting period is already used and the amendment seeks to confirm this practice; and the new sub regulation 6 provides for matters which must be prioritised when such a waiting period is applied. These criteria are already used in practice.
This amendment to Regulation 11 seeks to correct a technical error to the existing Regulation 11(3) to rectify a typographical error in the proviso (pru-vai-zow) to ensure that
Legal Aid SA can only assist in claims that exceed the Small
Claims Court’s jurisdiction by more than 50%.
Regulation 13 deals with maintenance, domestic violence and harassment cases. Regulation 13(1) is substituted and the reference to a person over 60 years of age is omitted from the
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 134 amended sub-regulation which requires that in maintenance,
domestic violence or Protection from Harassment Act matters,
legal aid may be granted for an initial consultation to: (a)
advise the applicant of his or her rights, (b) the procedure he
or she can follow and (c) his or her prospect of success.
Regulation 13(2) is amended by the addition of a subsection (c)
at the end to provide that legal aid may be granted if the legal
aid applicant is over 60 years of age, or is disabled. This will
make it easier for disabled and elderly applicants to qualify
for legal aid and will increase access for vulnerable groups.
Regulation 14 deals with labour cases. The proposed amendment to
Regulation 14(1)(c) will ensure that assistance to enforce the
Commission for Conciliation, Mediation and Arbitration, CCMA, awards is provided, where clients cannot proceed without the intervention of a legal practitioner.
Regulation 15 deals with divorce and family law cases. The
proposed substitution of Regulation 15(2)(c) will bring clarity
and address any misinterpretation regarding the merits of a
client’s divorce claim as opposed to whether a divorce order
will be granted.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 135 The proposed rewording of Regulation 15(2)(c) will focus the resources of Legal Aid SA on matters where clients are vulnerable or will suffer substantial injustice.
The other divorces will mostly be uncontested ones. Self-help assistance for clients will be available on Legal Aid SA’s website and clients will be assisted with legal advice by Legal
Aid SA paralegals. The Registrars of the Regional Courts will also be able to assist in uncontested divorces.
In terms of Regulation 23, the amendment to subsection 8 is proposed to correct an error and to clarify that children are assisted with monetary claims, even when they fall within the
Small Claims Court jurisdiction. This is a formalisation of how the matter is dealt with in practice.
Regulation 27 deals with the means test. The proposed amendment seeks to make provision for an automatic annual increase in the means test threshold by the consumer price index, CPI, without requiring Legal Aid SA to go through the formal and rigorous process of amending the Regulations.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 136 Regulation 31: Currently, hon Deputy Chair, legal aid in criminal matters can be partially subsidised if, in terms of the means test, an applicant does not qualify for full legal aid.
The substitution of Regulation 31(1) with the new provision seeks to remove the reference to “criminal matter” and thereby include civil matters as matters for which partially subsidised legal aid can be granted.
The insertion of sub regulation (2)(d) is a consequential amendment to include civil matters that meet the Regulation 9(1) criteria in the scheme for subsidised legal aid.
The proposed amendment to Regulation 32(1) now makes provision for contributions to also be levied in civil matters where the means test is exceeded. This is a consequential amendment to
Regulation 32 to give effect to the inclusion of civil matters in Regulation 31.
Hon Deputy Chair, in conclusion, the proposed amendments do not result in any significant policy change. Technical corrections will align policy to the actual position. Legal Aid’s limited resources for its civil work will be directed to the most vulnerable. Duplication of services between the Commission for
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 137 Conciliation, Mediation and Arbitration, CCMA and Legal Aid
South Africa will be eliminated. The Means Test will keep pace with inflation without requiring annual revisions to the regulations.
Hon Deputy Chair, the Committee, having considered the subject of the Draft Amended Regulations made in terms of the Legal Aid
South Africa Act, 2014, referred to it, reports that it has agreed to the Draft Regulations without proposing amendments and recommends that the National Council of Provinces approve the
Draft Amended Regulations as tabled. I thank you, hon Deputy
Chair.
Debate concluded.
Question put: That the Report be agreed to.
In favour: Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal,
Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape, North West, Western Cape.
Report accordingly agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 138 ORATION OF CONDOLENCES ON THE PASSING OF HIS EXCELLENCY,
KENNETH KAUNDA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF ZAMBIA
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon delegates, we will now proceed to the oration of condolences on the passing of His
Excellency, Kenneth Kaunda, the former President of the
Republic of Zambia. The founder of the Zambia African National
Congress and the leader of the ... [Inaudible.] party of
Zambia. Therefore, I will call upon the Chairperson of the
NCOP, hon A Masondo, to start the orations. Hon Masondo, over to you.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Thank you very much, Deputy
Chairperson. Hon Sylvia Lucas, House Chairperson for
Committees and Oversight, hon Jomo Nyambi, House Chairperson for International Relations and Members Support, hon Winnie
Ngwenya, Chief Whip of the National Council of Provinces, hon
Seiso Mohai, hon permanent and special delegates, I feel highly honoured to lead the oration of condolences by this
House on the passing of His Excellency Kenneth Kaunda, former
President of the Republic of Zambia under the topic “Paying tribute to a fallen African giant who remained in the forefront of the fight for liberation in Africa.” Born in
April 1924 at Lubwa Mission in the Northern Province of the
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 139 Republic of Zambia, Kenneth Kaunda became the first President of an Independent Republic in October 1964. Kaunda started playing a continental role in 1963, when he became President of the Pan-African Freedom Movement for East, Central and
Southern Africa. He extended his influence to the global level after Zambia’s independence serving as the Chairperson of the Organisation of African Unity from 1970 to 1971 and from 1987 to 1988.
Kaunda’s victory or success to become the President of the
Republic of Zambia ushered in a new era in the struggle against colonial domination in Southern Africa. As we all know he allowed liberation movements from Angola, South Africa,
Mozambique, Namibia and Zimbabwe to use his country as a launch ... [Inaudible.] as some will say or a base for the struggle against white minority rule. We share the sentiments expressed by those who upon his death described him as generous, affable and a selfless leader who dedicated his life in freeing the region and the continent from colonialism. As a leader, Kaunda believed in the power of education. He saw education as a foundation in the process of building a nation.
When he took over the reign Zambia’s education system was one of the most poorly developed in all of Britain’s former
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 140 colonies. His government invested heavily in the education at all levels.
He instituted a policy where all children, irrespective of their parents’ ability to pay, were given free exercise books, pens and pencils. The parents’ main responsibilities were to buy uniforms, pay a token school fee and ensure that the children attended school. This approach meant that the best pupils were promoted to achieve their best results, all the way from primary school to university level. A great friend, indeed, of the South African liberation struggle. Kaunda was closed to veterans of the liberation movements such as Oliver
Tambo, Walter Sisulu, Chris Hani and many others. He maintained his support or liberation movements despite
Pretoria’s policy aimed at destabilisation of governments in the region.
The presence of the African National Congress and the Zimbabwe
African People’s Union resulted in co-operation between the
Rhodesian and South African security forces in arresting cadres returning from Zambia. Kaunda played an important role in assisting Oliver Tambo to set up an ANC office in Lusaka.
Zambia became the home of the ANC for more than a decade. This bolster the work of the ANC as part of the broader liberation
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 141 movement which sought to put an end to white minority rule in
South Africa. A man of peace, indeed, Kaunda became instrumental in the initiation of a series of meetings from late 1984 onwards between the exile ANC and groupings from within South Africa. The process for white groupings including prominent Afrikaners and big business men, but also representatives of antiapartheid organisations for the first time initiating contact with the liberation movement.
The meetings led to the eventual dissolution of the forms of prohibition place on the liberation movements and their eventual return and democratic elections in 1994. Later in
1989, when Tambo collapsed suffering from a stroke Kaunda intervened by organising a plane that carried him from Lusaka to London. Kaunda’s role in South Africa’s liberation struggle runs very, very deep. As early as 1964, he sought to persuade the apartheid government to release Nelson Mandela and other prisoners. One of the options he sought was for Mandela and his colleagues to be imprisoned in Zambia rather than in South
Africa.
It is no wonder that after his release from prison in 1990,
Mandela’s first destination outside of South Africa was
Zambia. In December 2002, Kaunda was awarded the Order of the
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 142 Companions of O R Tambo. This is the highest award that the country can be bestow on its citizens of foreign nationals by
South African government. He was also awarded the Ubuntu Award by the National Heritage Council in 2007, for his role in the struggle against apartheid in South Africa. To continue with occasion as a peace broker in 1991, Kaunda founded the Kenneth
Kaunda Peace Foundation dedicated to the establishment of peace and conflict resolution on the continent.
K K left us with many lessons on leadership. He believed in the existence of a clear vision and that to achieve the vision one needs to stay resolute and demonstrate as much as possible the qualities of what he or she seeks to achieve, and importantly to work hard and not tired in the pursuit of the common good. Nze K K was a man of integrity, a visionary. His passing is a painful loss to the African continent. His life was the embodiment of the philosophy of ubuntu, botho, that speaks to the universal bond of caring and sharing that connects all of humanity. This was his trademark. It is thus fitting that President Cyril Ramaphosa directed that the national flags be flown at half-mast at all flag stations as a tribute to this fallen hero.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 143 We commend the President’s decisions to honour President
Kenneth K K Kaunda in this way. A genuine expression of our national gift at the passing of the love and rightfully revered father of the African Independents and unity. May his family and the people of Zambia find strength in the fact that
President Kaunda helped to liberate many, many, more people well beyond the borders of his own country. We are with the family during this period of mourning. We are with the people of Zambia during this difficult period. Thank you very much.
[Applause.]
Mr M NHANHA: Thank you very much Deputy Chairperson. Hon. members, firstly I would like to express my sincere gratitude to my leader in the NCOP, hon. Cathy Labuschagne and the DA contingent in the NCOP, for showing confidence in me to deliver on behalf of my party, to deliver an oration of condolences on the passing of His Excellency Kenneth K K
Kaunda, the first postcolonial era President of the Republic of Zambia. It is indeed my singular honour and privilege.
Today’s the theme says and I quote:
Paying tribute to a fallen African giant who remained in
the forefront of the fight for liberation in Africa.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 144 Hon members, this theme could not have been more befitting and appropriate. On 18 of June 2021, the DA’s Federal Leader and
Leader of the Official Opposition in Parliament hon. John
Steenhuisen released a media statement upon receiving the sad news, and I quote:
The DA extends its heartfelt condolences to the people of
Zambia and the Kaunda family on the passing of former
President Kenneth Kaunda. Zambia and Africa has lost one
of its most influential and respected leaders.
Kenneth Kaunda spent his long life in the dedicated
service of his country, first as liberator and then as
leader. He was the last of a generation that spearheaded
the fight for a postcolonial Africa in the mid to late
20th century showing principled solidarity with his
Southern African neighbours in their own struggles.
Later in life, his campaigning for HIV testing and
treatment did much to counter the stigma of the virus and
encourage people to know their status and seek treatment.
Kenneth Kaunda leaves behind a significant legacy and an
important contribution to the freedom of Zambians.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 145 May he rest in peace, and may the people of Zambia find
comfort in their time of grieving.
Hon members, it was a spring of 1989 in Alice and it still felt like the middle of winter. The wheels of the liberation struggle were in full unstoppable swing, but so was the repression and brutality of the regime. The late Walter Sisulu has just been released from Robben Island.
A young man, in his late teens has once again attracted the attention of the Internal Security Branch. At the time
Congress of South African Students was banned, so students organised themselves based on their geographical locations.
The young man, who like many others of his age thought he was the best thing ever to occur under the sun, he was a tough as
Tarzan, he was as brave as Superman and intelligent as Batman.
Despite all his would be attributes, geography was not his strongest point. He was the secretary of Alice Students
Congress and represented students in the local unit of the
United Democratic Front. Like all students, money was always difficult to come by. The United Democratic Front, UDF
Irritated by the student’s endless requests for funding, gave
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 146 Alice Students Congress, Asco T-shirts of Isithwalandwe that had just been released to sell and raise funds for themselves.
With only a few T-shirts sold, the Internal Security Branch paid him a visit looking for the rest of the consignment.
During torture on the verge of spilling the beans, the young man who by his own admission geography was not his strong point, was asked in which country was the ANC’s headquarters.
He boldly replied Lusaka, much to a big laughter of his captors.
His geography may not have been his strong point or did not know Lusaka was actually in Zambia, but at least he knew that the man with the white handkerchief was Kenneth Kaunda, the
President of Lusaka. Like many other frontline states,
President Kaunda risked the security of his own people by providing shelter to the banned and exiled ANC. He took this massive risk because he knew, Africa can never be completely free unless South Africa was free.
Hon. members the story of our liberation can never be complete without mentioning the sacrifice and contribution of Kenneth
Kaunda and the people of Zambia. It is for this reason, that as the nation we must always honour, love and reciprocate the
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 147 favour to these who made untold sacrifices for our country to be free today.
Amongst his plethora of achievements, he alongside the
President of Ghana Nkwame Nkrumah and Emperor Haile Selassie, is the formation of the Organization for African Unity the predecessor to the African Union, whose chief objective is to foster unity amongst Africans and end political stability on the continent.
As recent as last month we witnessed rather unfortunate scenes in which members of the Pan African Parliament violently torn one another, going against the hopes and wishes of the golden generation. I kept thinking to myself that the founders must be turning in their graves at what was becoming of Pan African
Parliament. Without doubt, President Kaunda must have been left astounded in disbelief.
He departs the batting crease short of only three runs to reach his maiden century. The top order batsman in President
Kaunda was dropped at first slip, later at silly mid-on but went on to score a remarkable 97 not out.
IsiXhosa:
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 148 Uwile umthi omkhulu
Uwile umsimbithi wezwekaz’ iAfrika
Liwile ivulandlela lezwekaz’ iAfrika
Liwile igqalangqa lezwekaz’ iAfrika
Liwile igqala lenkululeko yezwekaz’ iAfrika
Iwile intsika yezwekaz’ iAfrika
Uwile umnquma wokunqanda izulu mhla ligqekeza kwizwekaz’ iAfrika
Liwile ithole lomthonyama
Yive imbongi yesizwe, umfo kaMqhayi waseNtabozuko kumbongo wakhe, Ukuzika kukaMendi, uthi:
Ewe, le nto kakade yinto yaloo nto.
Thina, nto zaziyo, asothukanga nto;
Sibona kamhlope, sithi bekumelwe,
Sitheth'engqondweni, sithi kufanelwe;
Xa bekungenjalo bekungayi kulunga
Ngoko ke, Sotase! Kwaqal'ukulunga!
Le nqanaw', umendi, namhla yendisile,
Nath’ igazi lethu lisikhonzisile!
Thuthuzelekani ngoko, zinkedama!
Thuthuzelekani ngoko, bafazana!
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 149 Kuf’omnye kade mini kwakhiw’ omnye;
Kukhonza mnye kade’ ze kuphil’ abanye;
Ngala mazwi sithi, thuthuzelekani,
Ngokwenjenje kwethu sithi, yakhekani.
Lithatheni eli qhalo labadala,
Kuba bathi: “Akuhlanga lungehlanga!
Wanga umphefumlo wakhe ungafumana ukuphumla okumyoli banaphakade. Oontanga-ndini bamlindile ngaphesheya kwentlambo.
Enkosi kakhulu.
Ms M O MOKAUSE: Deputy Chairperson of the NCOP, hon Lucas, the
Economic Freedom Fighters, EFF, joins Africa and the world, in paying tribute and honours Zambia’s first president Dr Kenneth
Kaunda. One of the most difficult things you have to do is to speak of Dr Kaunda in the past and we argue that it is possible to do so because Dr Kaunda is one of those very few individuals in the world whose life was not of a time, but of all ages. His name and his work will live with us forever. His contribution to the freedom that we now enjoy can never be forgotten. His commitment to the principle of African unity will drive us forward as we march on towards that elusive goal of uniting all our people under the banner of Pan Africanism.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 150 Chairperson, Dr Kenneth Kaunda sacrificed the freedom and happiness of his own people so that he could help us attain our freedom. He did this because he knew that it is impossible for Rhodesia and Botha of here, South Africa. As the EFF, we are the only true heirs of the ideas that Dr Kaunda and other founding fathers of African liberation stood for. We want all minerals in this country to belong to the people of South
Africa as a whole. We want all the land to be returned to those it was stolen from. We want a true freedom for everyone in this continent. May the revolutionary soul of Dr Kenneth
Kaunda rest in eternal peace. As an organisation, the EFF, we shall pick up the spear and continue with the fight. Thank you.
Mr X NGWEZI: Thank you very much, hon Deputy Chairperson of the NCOP. As the then Inkatha Yenkululeko Yesizwe known to him and formed upon his advice along with the rest of Africa. We learned with great sadness of the passing of the founding
President of Zambia, Dr Kenneth Kaunda who died on 17th June
2021. Dr Kaunda was not only a leader of the Zambian people but he led many countries especially in the Southern Africa to achieve their independence from the British rule. Dr Kaunda was one of the last generations of Africa’s liberation
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 151 leaders. Therefore, his death is a great loss to the whole continent.
Our leader Prince Mangosuthu Buthelezi reflected on Zambia’s role in providing a sanctuary to South Africa’s exile during the struggle against apartheid. The Ngoni people and the Zulu nation have enjoyed good relations. This was shown at the
Ncwala traditional ceremony in Zambia where Prince Buthelezi was reunited and engaged with President Kaunda. This tribute from the IFP is proof that our good actions will follow us and even make a life-long impact after we have passed on. Even though we are grieving and saddened by the passing of Dr
Kaunda, we also celebrate a life that was well lived, a selfless life of sacrificing for the benefit of the people. We owe an outstanding debt of gratitude to the heroes such as Dr
Kaunda who took the personal responsibility, courage and commitment to sacrifice for the continent’s liberation. As a people centred party, we aim to carry on this legacy through spirit of Ubuntu Botho a foundation of all human interaction.
Africa has certainly lost a tireless soldier, a fighter, a liberator and a person of great exceptional integrity.
IsiZulu:
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 152 Sithi lala ngoxolo Dr Kaunda. Umphefumulo wakho ngathi ungalala ngokuthula. Siyathokoza kakhulu.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE NCOP: Thank you, Deputy Chair of the
NCOP, let me recognise the presidium of the NCOP led by the
Chairperson, hon Masondo, hon members, distinguished special delegates, Minister of International Relations and Co- operation, Dr Pandor, in absentia, and fellow South Africans, over the last few days, both the print and electronic newsrooms across the length and breadth of the world were abuzz with the news of the passing away of one of the finest sons of Africa, the architect of African Unity and independence, a great visionary and unifier of unparalleled stature amongst his peers, a Pan-Africanist till the end, and the founding president of the Republic of Zambia, the late Dr
Kaunda.
Chairperson, I am sure this House would agree that there is no language under the sun that would describe the revolutionary selflessness, fearlessness, courageousness and peace and freedom-loving persona in the late Dr Kaunda.
This is a man who, at a great cost to his people and the country, believed that his own freedom and that of his people
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 153 are inseparably linked to the freedom of the people of South
Africa, the Southern African Development Community, SADC, region and the entire African continent. An internationalist of unparalleled stature who dedicated his entire life for a world peace and justice.
As a visionary, a great African revolutionary strategist, an elder statesman, Comrade Kaunda played a critical role in brokering a ceasefire between South African liberation movement led by the ANC and the apartheid white minority regime. We owe the peaceful existence we are enjoying today to his courage of conviction and outstanding leadership qualities. He did this not out of cowardice or revolutionary fatigue, but because of his deep conviction that a negotiated settlement of the South African and Namibian political conflict are the basis for a lasting peace and prosperity of all the people of South Africa, the SADC region, and the entire African continent.
Kenneth Kaunda together with his compatriots in arms, the late
Mwalimu Julius Nyerere, Augostinho Neto, Samora Machel and
Robert Mugabe were father figures of the frontline states that pushed apartheid colonialism in the Southern tip of Africa to its absolute demise. He believed like his counterparts in
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 154 South Africa, the late Oliver Tambo, Walter Sisulu and Nelson
Mandela that South Africa can only chart a new trajectory of defining its collective prosperity and future destiny, united in diversity, through peaceful negotiations.
This was demonstrated by the ANC resolution at its special national consultative conference in Kabwe, Zambia in 1985.
This conference mandated Oliver Tambo and his leadership collective to focus on two strategic priorities, namely; the intensification of the struggle in all fronts and the preparation of the ANC for any eventual prospects of negotiated settlement in South Africa.
His facilitation of the peaceful settlement of South Africa’s political conflict between the ANC and the apartheid white minority regime culminated into the ANC adoption of the 1988 constitutional guidelines, which were later adopted by the
Organisation of African Unity as the Harare Declaration of
1989. The Harare Declaration outlined the conditions under which the ANC as a leading mass party of revolution would enter into negotiated settlement with the South African regime. This Declaration, as adopted by the Organisation of
African Unity, was accomplished in the aftermath of the bruising and heroic military battle between the erstwhile
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 155 apartheid South African Defence Force and the combined forces of Cubans and Angolans at Quito Cuanavale.
There is no doubt that the Battle of Quito Cuanavale will go down the memory lanes of history as amongst the decisive factors that led to the liberation of Namibia. For this, many generations of South Africa and the entire SADC region will forever be indebted to the Cubans for their internationalists solidarity by challenging the myth of the apartheid military invincibility.
Hon Chairperson, we, in the ANC stand here today to proclaim without any fear of contradiction that the life and times of
Kenneth Kaunda and his generation of African leaders and compatriots will go down in the annals of history as the story of African and international solidarity, the story of African renewal and development, and indeed a shining example of democracy and peace.
This is a leader who without any reservations accepted the democratic outcomes of the voices of Zambian people by stepping down peacefully and respecting the democratically elected government after he lost the elections. This did neither embittered nor depoliticised Kenneth Kaunda as he
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 156 continued to play active role in the peacemaking, reconstruction and development of Zambia and other parts of
Africa.
To demonstrate his unflinching commitment to the peaceful resolution of the South African political conflict, Comrade
Kaunda defied the temptations of triumphalism and stood true to his humility. There is no better way to express this humility than what he said after the adoption of the Harare
Declaration and the signals by the apartheid regime to enter into peaceful negotiations when he said, and I quote: “The ball is now in Pretoria’s court.”
To celebrate the life and times of Kenneth Kaunda without his peers, contemporaries, fellow comrades in arms for Africa’s peace, renewal and development will be the writing of history with blank pages which the generations to come will not forgive us. According to history archives, Julius Nyerere adopted more of a statesman approach in his interaction with the ANC during the talks about talks. This was demonstrated by deep commitment towards the resolution of the South African conflict in the true spirit of co-operation and compromise.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 157 There is no better way to describe this than through his own words when he said to Oliver Tambo and the ANC delegation, and
I quote:
You have not defeated these people. That is why you are
negotiating with them. And therefore, you have to create
necessary space that recognise that this is not a
defeated force.
Hon Deputy Chairperson, there is no doubt, as documented by historians, the heroic upsurge of anticolonial movement in many parts of Africa, and the SADC in particular, was a catalyst in inspiring the death defying militancy of the successive generations of the oppressed youth of South Africa.
These are heroics battle that inspired the heroism of the 1976 detachment of uMkonto weSizwe and the young lions under the leadership of the late Peter Mokaba and Rapu Molekane, who shook the apartheid regime through militant mass actions.
Kenneth Kaunda, welcome the ANC and its young revolutionary democrats without any hesitation and provided all he could, sometimes at the expense of his own people. As one of our stalwart, Comrade Mac Maharaj recounts: “Kaunda never confined
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 158 them to the camps but integrated them with the Zambian people.”
Chairperson, as we celebrate the life and times of this giant of Africa, we, as an apex institution of democracy, must have our palms on the blood nerve of the African Continental Free
Trade Area, AfCFTA that has been ratified by our country recently. This free trade area agreement is among the critical continental policy instruments for Africa’s renewal, reconstruction and development which Kenneth Kaunda struggled for.
In conclusion, allow me to join many others who have expressed their heartfelt condolences to the family of the late Kenneth
Kaunda, his comrades and the people of Zambia. We share their pain, belong to the same past, and must dare not fail to construct a common destiny and future in a free and prosperous
Africa.
Deputy Chairperson, in conclusion, allow me to quote the verses from one of the revolutionary songs sang during the
1980s in celebration of the heroism of Kenneth Kaunda and his people for their unwavering support to our struggle that:
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 159 Zambian people, loving people,
Although you are far from home;
We shall miss you;
And we shall need you for the things you have done for us.
Long live the spirit of Kenneth Kaunda, long live ...
[Interjections.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Thank you very much, hon members, before we can conclude the oration of condolences, let’s first observe a moment of silence in honour of the former president, Comrade Dr Kenneth Kaunda. May his revolutionary soul, with the soul of all the duly departed rest in eternal peace.
Thank you very much to everyone who participated in the oration. It was touching indeed. It is just a reminder of our dark past, but it is also a reflection on the fact that we need to make sure that we deal with the future of our children in a way the late Dr Kaunda dealt with the fact, that he knew that if we don’t start today, there won’t be a future. He indeed gave us a path to walk on. Let us continue on that path. Thank you very much for the harmony and cohesion that we observed during this debate. We appreciate that.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 160 I also want to appreciate all members, particularly the permanent and special delegates that participated throughout this term. The NCOP was extremely productive during this term.
I think we need express our appreciation to all the members that made sure that we continue being productive the way we were. I want to express the appreciation to the presidium, but also in particular, to our Chief Whip and the Whips that made sure that the NCOP’s work continued in this term.
Members, we know that it is constituency time, that there are elections coming, but we also request that you take time off and give attention to yourselves, that you relax and rest because we still have a lot that we want to do, particularly in the time of this pandemic. Continue to stay safe, to look after your own health. I can tell you now that we are steaming, we are using Entress drops, Turlington and all of those home remedies to make sure that we continue to be able to do what we are supposed to do.
Hon members, we don’t want to lose more people. We also want to make sure that we attend to our own health. Thank you, hon
Labuschagne. I cannot conclude this appreciation without appreciating our staff under the capable leadership of our secretary to the NCOP that made sure that throughout ...
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 161 particularly the technical side of our operations. They have been running very smoothly.
We must also express appreciation, particularly this term to the Ministers and the executives of the different provinces that always responded to our call as the NCOP. This is the last day of our gatherings for now, but we know we need to be flexible because we know we can be called anytime for any important topic or something that we need to attend to as the
National Council of Provinces. I must say it is a real pleasure to work with you in spite of our differences but we are able to run this institution with maturity and with the necessary attention and commitment.
Thank you very much. I don’t want to say enjoy your constituency period but I really want to you that you take time off and attend to yourselves. Thank you very much, hon
Chairperson and the delegates that participated in the business of the day. Let me thank our Minister and particularly the special delegates. We never had a challenge on getting special delegates from the provinces throughout, although there are one or two provinces that are not giving us the necessary co-operation, but the Chief Whip will address
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES WEDNESDAY, 23 JUNE 2021 Page: 162 that. We must say that we have been able to conclude our business up until today. Thank you very much to everyone.
Debate concluded.
The Council adjourned at 14:04