An Interview with Joanna S. Kishner

AN INTERVIEW WITH JOANNA S. KISHNER

An Oral History Conducted by Barbara Tabach

Southern Nevada Jewish Heritage Project Oral History Research Center at UNLV University Libraries University of Nevada Las Vegas

©Southern Nevada Jewish Heritage Project

University of Nevada Las Vegas, 2014

Produced by: The Oral History Research Center at UNLV – University Libraries Director: Claytee D. White Project Manager: Barbara Tabach Transcriber: Kristin Hicks Interviewers and Editors: Barbara Tabach, Claytee D. White

The recorded interview and transcript have been made possible through the generosity of a

Library Services and Technology Act (LSTA) Grant. The Oral History Research Center enables students and staff to work together with community members to generate this selection of first-

person narratives. The participants in this project thank University of Nevada Las Vegas for the

support given that allowed an idea the opportunity to flourish.

The transcript received minimal editing that includes the elimination of fragments, false

starts, and repetitions in order to enhance the reader’s understanding of the material. All

measures have been taken to preserve the style and language of the narrator. In several cases

photographic sources accompany the individual interviews with permission of the narrator.

The following interview is part of a series of interviews conducted under the auspices of

the Southern Nevada Jewish Heritage Project.

Claytee D. White Director, Oral History Research Center University Libraries University of Nevada Las Vegas

iii

PREFACE

Joanna Kishner epitomizes the native Southern Nevada who was raised in both a Jewish and secular world of Las Vegas. A daughter of Ellen Neafsey Jobes and Irwin Kishner, she was born in 1964 and graduated from Clark High School in 1982. As she recalls, the halls of Clark High School witnessed a stellar cast of characters in the early 1980s, from future casino executives, to additional judges, to comedian Jimmy Kimmel.

Judge Kishner earned a double major in Political Science and Psychology from Claremont McKenna College (1986) and graduated from UCLA School of Law (1989.) She remained in California and worked as senior counsel for Warner Brothers, a division of Time-Warner Entertainment Company and was also an associate with the multi-national firm Paul Hastings Janofsky & Walker.

In time, she felt the tug to return to her childhood roots in Las Vegas. She and her husband were married at Temple Beth Sholom, where she had her bat mitzvah and raises her own children in the Jewish tradition.

Judge Kishner has been recognized for her legal work throughout the years, this includes pro bono work for disadvantaged children through the Children’s Attorney Project.

When she set her sights on becoming a judge, she was joined by her young family as she knocked on thousands of doors to introduce herself and her passion for justice. In 2010, she was elected to Department XXXI of the Eighth Judicial District.

TABLE OF CONTENTS Interview with Joanna S. Kishner January 10, 2017 in Las Vegas, Nevada Conducted by Barbara Tabach

Preface…………………………………………………………………………………………..iv Explains her judgeship seat and envisioning becoming a law career when she was younger, her father is Irwin Kishner, a non-practicing attorney, and several others in family are lawyers. Talks about being born and raised in Las Vegas and importance of Jewish tradition of tzedakah; L’dor vador; community service. Shares family’s Russian ancestral roots and research done by her son for a school project, landed in New York, New Jersey and Philadelphia areas. Family migrated to Las Vegas later from Miami Beach where her father Irwin attended high school and University of Miami Law School; Irwin joined his Uncle Herman Kishner who lived in Las Vegas and was in development of apartments and retail centers……………………………………...………….1 – 5

Describes what it was like to grow up in Las Vegas: Jewish childhood at Temple Beth Sholom significant to her memories, BBYO etc.; the secular side of growing up in Las Vegas including desegregation of schools. Mentions Florence and Ronnie Frost, Kelly Kirschbaum; small town feeling; Chic Hecht, Leslie and Lori Hecht. Celebrating Jewish and Christian holidays; Hebrew school, Kolod Center at Temple Beth Sholom; Holocaust education in 1960s-1970s….…..6 – 12

Talks about working on a kibbutz in Israel after her freshman year at Claremont McKenna College; value of the experience; her sister Sharon; 1982 graduate of Clark High School, where several judges graduated from as well. Mentions Abbi Silver (judge), Kathleen Delaney (daughter of Joe Delaney), Hyde Park Junior High School, Catherine Cortez Masto (also Class of ’82), Billy McBeath, Stephen George, Jimmy Kimmel………………………………………….……13 – 19

Describes her 1977 bat mitzvah and party at Metro Club at MGM; raising her two children Jewish. How she met her husband; wedding at Temple Beth Sholom……………………….….….19 – 23

Talks about her career, senior counsel for Warner Brothers, being with her high school friend, Abbi Silver, through law school; interest in labor law. Mentions Paul Hastings, John Schulman,

Shelley Presser. Decision to move back to Las Vegas. Steps to being elected a judge in 2010, knocking doors and keeping her maiden name, charity walks, Springs Preserve……….….24 – 28

AT THIS POINT the interview moves to the chambers of Judge Abbi Silver and the two women enjoy a name dropping session about their Clark High School Class of 1982 classmates. It’s a trip down memory lane as they reminisce and laugh about the joy of growing up in Las Vegas. Abbi Silver talks about her litigation experience when Jerry Lewis was stalked; Sayegh missing child case; Oscar Goodman, John Momot, David Chesnoff and other up and coming attorneys of the 1970s. This portion of the interview is also included in Abbi Silver oral history for the Southern Nevada Jewish Heritage Project…………………………………………………….……….29 – 55

vi vii

This is Barbara Tabach. Today is January 10th, 2017. I'm sitting in chambers of Joanna

Kishner, a judge here in—your Las Vegas office. What exactly is your title today?

I'm a district court judge, Eighth Judicial District, which means it's a general jurisdiction position that covers throughout Clark County. So everything from Moapa, Overton, Las Vegas, North Las

Vegas, Henderson and Boulder City. So it's the entire Clark County area. We are the first level trial judges on the civil side for civil cases and also on the criminal side doing larger trials on those as well, everything from medical malpractice, breach of contract, construction defect—I have a construction defect specialty docket—as well as when people are part of the civil-criminal division. I'm part of the civil-criminal division, thirty-two judges in that and then there's twenty family court judges. We're considered all district court judges. But those of us on the civil-criminal don't handle family court matters in a routine practice with some small exceptions that don't really apply here.

You'll be interviewing Judge Abbi Silver next. She is the first Court of Appeals judge.

The Court of Appeals was just approved last couple of years. So prior to the Court of Appeals, appeals went from district court judges to the Nevada Supreme Court.

You've interviewed Justice Cherry for the Nevada Supreme Court.

And you're very busy it looks like…Looking at the hallway out here, there's a lot going on.

We are all very incredibly busy. All morning I had about thirty matters on my motion calendar to handle before the lunch hour. I'm currently not in trial this afternoon so that we could meet. I have a trial starting tomorrow, a bench trial starting tomorrow. So we are constantly doing our motion calendars, our trials, and as you see around my chambers a couple of the binders for a couple of different cases on decisions. We write all of our own decisions as well.

Wow. Before we get into the Jewish aspect of your life, did you imagine that someday you

would be a judge?

Yes, actually, I'd be one of those few. I should mention my father [Irwin Kishner] was a non-practicing attorney. I've got cousins that are attorneys back East. My sister is an attorney.

I've always had a passion for the law. In fact, when you speak with Judge Silver, she'll say it as well. When we were back in high school we actually did at that point—they call it like a Boy

Scout, like Law Post. It was funded through, I think, either the Boy Scouts or some program. I'm not exactly sure. It was for people who thought they wanted to be lawyers. At an early age my parents said I liked to articulate my position and give back to the community. So I knew for a long time that down the road once I had the background experience of being a lawyer and the breadth and depth of experience that I wanted to give back to the community by being a judge.

Now, that's a good point – giving back to the community as a judge. Why would you hold that feeling? Where does that come from?

Well, I was born and raised here in Las Vegas and tzedakah was kind of synonymous. One of my first earliest memories is you trod off to preschool for your secular education. I went to Temple

Beth Sholom for my Judaic education. One of the first things, the very first day you come back with a tzedakah box, the same tin blue and white or kind of soft white box that they still hand out today. For my family giving back to the community was something we did from the very, very beginning, and was instilled into us and something that we always felt. L'dor vador and tzedakah.

So that transcends throughout my life. I have done a lot of community service. Then being a part of the bench, being able to actually resolve a lot of issues rather than just necessarily litigating them is an opportunity to serve our community from our (indiscernible) litigants throughout large multi-million-dollar cases.

Wow. That's wonderful. So if we go back in time, what do you know about your Jewish

ancestry before your father, your grandparents?

If you had asked me this question a few years ago, I would have known less, but actually my son

had a project a while ago where he had to kind of pick an ancestor and trace roots. So we spoke

with all of our family members to try and trace our ancestry and we actually then opened up an

Ancestry-dot-com account. So now at this juncture I have had the benefits of tracing back. My

father was born in Brighton Beach, New York. His father was actually born in Baranovich and

it's pronounced a lot of different ways, Baronovitz, Baronovich. It's either Poland, Republic of

Russia depending what time and now it's Belarus. So he came over—actually he was born

Christmas Day, December 25th, 1898—came over on a ship called the Haverford via Liverpool.

We researched all this for my son's project.

This is great.

Then we went back. He actually didn't come over with his parents. At least my understanding—

this is a little bit unclear—I know he came over with a couple of his brothers and I think with an

aunt. So they all pretended they were all the same family even though it wasn't his direct parents.

The idea was pogroms and to have a new, better life in America. Eventually he brought his mother over. And his father, I believe, passed away before he was able to be brought over. So there was a whole grouping of relatives. That's my father's father side. In fact, his grandparents— so then Gershon would have come over and the same thing. They didn't actually come to New

York.

Now, who is Gershon?

Okay. Let's walk it back. My father is Irwin, his father is Samuel, his father would have been

Michael, and Michael's father would have been Gershon. And so they lived in the combined area, well, I would say New York, New Jersey, Philadelphia area of Pennsylvania all late 1800s,

turn of the century. So we researched all of that and then have gone back a little bit farther and

then have branched out with their various brothers and sisters and who passed away.

My grandfather Samuel that I mentioned came on the Haverford. So it was Baranovich.

Then he had to spend three years in Liverpool and then they took the Haverford and they landed actually in Philadelphia. Originally my father had thought his family had come through Ellis

Island because that was the family legacy, just oral history. But then when we researched it, the nice thing is you can actually go and find the ship's registry and we found it was the Haverford and they actually went into Philadelphia. He was with two of his brothers who are now deceased—this is Samuel's brothers; it would have been Herman who lived here in Las Vegas and with my father started Maryland Square and Nevada Square, the Somerset properties. So he was my great-uncle Herman. And then my great-uncle Benjamin also came over about that same time. They were all ten and younger at the time. He would have also worked for some of the properties.

A variety of other relatives that all ended up in the general New York area. Then my father moved from New York, if my recollection is correct, around age thirteen, moved from

Brighton Beach down to Miami Beach with his father, Samuel, and his mother, Ida. Ida had been born in New York, but her parents had immigrated, same general Eastern European area, but earlier on because she was actually born in the United States. That's at least my father's side of the family.

How did they exactly end up here, one of the uncles?

How they ended up in the Las Vegas area is my Grandfather Samuel, as well as his brothers and a variety of different cousins—this works out to be you end up with third cousins; I've got a lot of family here that I don't think is necessarily connected—were builders. So they built back in

New York. So first, some were grocers when they first came. I found an address of a grocery store where they worked at. Then they were in construction and then they became builders. So they built like an apartment complex, a couple of houses in New York, in Brighton Beach, in fact, what was called the Kishner Arms. It was there in the 1970s. I tried to go back and look at it at the end of the year and I couldn't find it. So I'm not sure if it got demolished with all the gentrifying of Brooklyn. So then the building and construction that's what they moved down to

Miami Beach area for, at least my Grandfather Samuel did. He did some building there, built the home that they lived in, built some small apartments there.

My father went to high school in Miami Beach. He went to college at the University of

Florida, Gators; hence, I grew up a Gator. You see a Gator pendant in my chambers. And then he went to the University of Miami for law school. At the end of law school his uncle Herman who is my great-uncle, which was Samuel's brother—if this makes sense—

It makes sense. I'm following you.

—had moved out to Vegas to start doing some development. So my father, Irwin, went to join his uncle Herman and they started some of the various properties, such as Maryland Square,

Nevada Square, Somerset Gardens, Somerset House Motel, Somerset Shopping Center, and the

Monaco, which no longer exists, which used to be right next to the Desert Inn and a couple of other properties that I may be missing. So they came over 1959—well, late fifties for my uncle; my father was 1959, 1960 approximately. He could tell you better exactly. He married my mother. My sister was born in 1963 and I was born in 1964.

So you are one of those rare genuinely born here.

Born at Sunrise Hospital, yes.

What was it like to grow up in Las Vegas in general?

There's two different kind of memories. I had my Jewish childhood because at the time we only had the one synagogue, or at least the one main synagogue, was Temple Beth Sholom when it was then located at East Oakey, 1600 East Oakey if I recall correctly the address. So that would

take everyone from the whole community. And I should mention my parents divorced at an early

age. So I kind of lived in two parts of town. But it would take people from the entire community.

So we lived close to the Westside, Charleston and Rancho area. But it also drew from people

who lived behind—Boulevard Mall existed then and exists now, another kind of large pocket.

And then a lot of people lived right near the synagogue. So from a Jewish standpoint you knew

everyone in the community. I went to Hebrew school with the Steinbergs, the Masons, the

Macks, which are families still here in town, and the Angles, Freys, Freys, slash, Molasky

before, the Franks, everyone. So we all went to the synagogue regardless of which part of town

we lived in. So some I knew in my secular life going through elementary school, middle school,

high school. Others we knew just through the synagogue because everyone went to the same

synagogue. We went to Hebrew school together and did various celebrations together. That part

was very nice.

I mentioned tzedakah from the very beginning. It was a very harmonious group. We did

different things. We participated. Different people had interest in whether it be BBYO or—I

don't believe it was USY at that time. It may have been USY and others. We did things. We went

to Jewish day camps, overnight camps out of town. So it was very harmonious and idealistic

from a child's perspective, my early childhood, elementary school.

On the flip side, at the same time Vegas was going through a lot of challenges that I was

seeing really more on the non-Jewish side. What I'm talking about is...You may be aware of the

desegregation, the litigation, the Guinn case, first the Mason case and then it became the Guinn

case. That started I believe around 1970, 1972, if I recall. It was the Ninth Circuit case. So that's

the heart of when I'm in elementary school. So we all the sudden saw our elementary school,

West Charleston Elementary right there on Palomino, right around the Charleston and Rancho

area, all the sudden kids were starting to be bussed in, but then the schools closed down. So the

parents took them out. Whether you call it boycotting, whether you call it the schools closed

down, however you'd like to phrase it, we're taken from our elementary schools. My sister and I

got put in a parochial school for a short time while things were getting resolved. So that was kind

of a different but interesting challenge.

What school did they put you in?

Our Lady of Las Vegas, right there. Then with nuns we were a little bit of fish out of water there.

Because in school, I should say, even starting in elementary school, you may or may not know

Florence Frost.

Yes.

Well, Florence's daughter, Ronnie, and I have been very good friends since second grade. We

met at second grade. So we still remain friends. In fact, I spent New Year's with her. Another

gentleman, Ted Rosenstein—you may or may not know him—commercial real estate, still in town, still very friendly with, he moved from New Jersey in third grade. Kelly Kirshbaum, who now lives in northern Nevada, but her father was a veterinarian. We were all friends in elementary school, and there was a fourth person. So we were the ones from the elementary

Jewish side. When Hanukkah came we brought our dreidels; let's give the explanation what

Hanukkah is in school.

This is at the Catholic school?

Well, no, I'm sorry.

Oh, just in general.

In general. In elementary school. Then when we short term get placed in parochial school, everything kind of goes different for a little bit. But it was a very short term because then they revolved it, schools opened again, and we went back to West Charleston at the time, which is now Howard Wasden Elementary School, went to the sixth grade center when that was time. So both before and after the short time we were at Our Lady, when we were in regular CCSD school for the Jewish holidays, they always asked the Jewish kids to explain what the Jewish holidays were, bring in a little something. So it was nice. It was very congenial. So the tensions were never—at least I was never subjected to any bullying or any issues like that that I recognized.

No overt anti-Semitism.

Not that I'm aware of that I have any recollection of. But at the same time, you had—because really the focus was all the issues that were going on unfortunately with Las Vegas' other challenge. It's a fabulous community, but at the same time it had its challenges. So people were kind of more focused on that challenge I think than really...Because all my friends, it really didn't matter if we were Catholic, Mormon, Jewish, Protestant, Baptist, Methodist; we just all enjoyed...

It was a small town.

It was a small town and it was very community based and there really wasn't...The only difference was we'd be out of school a couple of days. Most of our teachers were accepting of that. Yes, I had a few teachers over the years that would give a test and wouldn't let you make it up if you were out for Yom Kippur or Rosh Hashanah. But overall it was a pretty nice community.

I should mention Chic Hecht that we were friends with. Leslie Hecht is a year older than I am. So friends with Leslie and Lori Hecht. And Chic and Gail were good friends of my father.

So it was a very small community no matter where you lived. East side, west side, it didn't matter.

My understanding through working on the African-American Experience project and then the Jewish project, the idea to get the schools integrated was really surprising here when you think about it in the scheme of other places, how they were handling it.

I look at it in a retrospective lens because as I was going through it, we had tons of friends. It didn't matter their race, religion, sex, national origin, sexual orientation, disability. I had friends everything. Both my parents treated everyone exactly the same, as they should. That was one thing that was always—we were raised it's community; it's people. So none of that mattered to us. The fact that it was happening around me, for my sister and I it was surprising. Like, why is there an issue? It doesn't really make sense. Everyone gets along. Let us continue with our school days and enjoy ourselves. So it's only as I became older and researched it or people have given retrospectives on it and I look at it from a reflective standpoint that I am able to see that it did exist and I was somewhat rosy colored glasses possibly at the time or basically being a child and just enjoying being a child. Because, really, we would do things as large group and we weren't designated who our group was when we did activities or birthday parties. You can go back and look at birthday party pictures and it's a diversity, as it should be, and always has been.

So it wasn't always just the Jewish friends. It was a very mixed group is what we're describing.

Yes. And that was very nice. I'd go over to my friends' houses for all their Christmas holidays. I had friends that were—even at that stage—were of a very diverse race, religion, national origin.

It didn't matter and it still doesn't matter because it's all one big community. That was a really

nice thing to have that perspective even though, like I said, retrospectively there was a lot more

going on that I probably didn't realize.

But that's the job of parents. They kind of shelter their child from that.

I was fortunate.

So Hebrew school, you had a Hebrew school experience?

Sure, through Temple Beth Sholom. We mostly did Sunday school. It's a little bit different than

what they do now. It was probably, I'm going to say, a little bit more informal. I don't remember

what the Hebrew Academy started, which was the first full Jewish day school that people really

went to. I did not go there. Like I said, I was in the public school system throughout my—other than my short little parochial experience. But at temple we went on Sundays. We went one afternoon a week. Then as you prepared for your bar or bat mitzvah—obviously, mine was a bat mitzvah—you'd meet with the rabbi and you'd meet with the cantor and it was very easily done.

Now, the difference is at that time the girls had their bat mitzvahs on Friday night and the boys had their bar mitzvahs on Saturday. Yes, it was a little different. So we didn't do the full, whole

Saturday service, at least at Temple Beth Sholom. Now, someone who is of a different

generation may have a different perspective on that, but that's my recollection of the way it was.

But otherwise, Jewish education. You had the basketball court in the back of the temple. You could just hang out there with your friends.

You're talking about the Kolod Center.

Yes, the Kolod Center behind Temple Beth Sholom. You went to services, of course. Most people of that generation, we had our little signals where all of us had to take our restroom breaks at the same time.

There's always high jinks, isn't there?

Yes. But it was nice because we looked forward to going to religious service oftentimes to see

our friends that we didn't see in our regular school days as well as appreciating the service. But, yes, sometimes you need a little bit of a break with your friend.

I did have one experience in Hebrew school, which is a little bit different now. You mentioned parents shielding you. At a very young age, and I couldn't tell you exactly when, through Sunday school, Hebrew school, whatever you'd like to call it, they did show us

Holocaust films.

They did what?

Showed us Holocaust films, which I remember at the time was a huge impression for a young child. I think it was the right thing to do. I'm not saying it any way from a negative standpoint. It made us really realize how fortunate we were. But it kind of reinforced the idea that you need to treat everyone the same and we're all part of a community. Remember we're talking late sixties, early seventies. So you had many people whose family members had been lost in the Holocaust or you had survivors and they thought it was very important to teach us from a very young age part of our history. While I wouldn't have done it probably as young for my own children, I don't think it's done as young as it probably was we were, I think it turned out to be an informative educational experience that I think helped each of us realize how important really our community is. It reinforced that whole idea of community involvement and appreciating everyone's diversity.

That is a big topic: whenever I talk to anyone who is involved actively involved in the

Holocaust education programs about when do you introduce this to children and how do you introduce it. When you were growing up it was still fresh. It was accessible history.

That's why I think it was a little different. Like I said, I couldn't tell you exactly. I know I was in elementary school and I'm pretty sure it was early elementary school. But I do remember the library. It was past the synagogue. It was like the first door on the right across from the gift shop.

It was a bigger room, kind of like a library. We went in there to see a film. I don't remember honestly if it was there; I know it was in a school setting. "Hogan's Heroes," the actor who played LeBeau, who lost most of his family in the Holocaust, came and spoke with us. I know he did it in the school setting. I don't remember if he also did it at the synagogue setting then or later on. But they also had some speakers come and speak to us who were Holocaust survivors. I just remember that while it was a shock initially to see that—because it's a lot more vivid to see the pictures and the films, and we're not talking "Schindler's List," super-edited versions; it was pretty graphic; I remember it being black and white and graphic—it, I think, really did end up having for each of us a good remembrance of where we needed to be in our lives down the road and spurred me to want to go work on a kibbutz later on, which I did.

Oh, you did.

I did.

Tell me about that.

After my freshman year of college—so I should go back. When I graduated high school, I was fortunate my sister and I got to travel to Israel, Egypt, Greece and Turkey for the summer. I only got to go to Israel for a short amount of time, really wanted to do more. So the following year I worked with one of my professor in psychology. I was double majoring in political science and psychology at Claremont McKenna College. One of my psychology professors—he was not

Jewish. But I said that I wanted to go to Israel and work on a kibbutz and do the comparative lifestyles and would he support that as an independent project. He said, "Of course. I never had

such a request." So the summer after my freshman year of college I signed up to go. At that time

when you worked on a kibbutz, you signed up, you hopped on a plane, you showed up—I don't

remember if it was Tel Aviv or Jerusalem; I think it was Tel Aviv—they put you on a bus and

just sent you off to one of the kibbutzim. I wasn't there with any friends or anything like that.

We're talking this is summer of 1983.

So no formal group or support structure. You at this tender age are dropped off.

Yes. But it worked out well. Sink or swim for me is a fact. I am fortunate to be independent,

fortunate to have had a strong family upbringing. So it was my choice that that's what I wanted to

do and my parents supported my choice. So, yes, I ended up at Kibbutz Ginegar, which was one

of the original three kibbutzim that was near Afula, up near the northern border. It was right in

the middle. If you recall, there was a lot of invasions going on at the time. But it was a

tremendous experience and I say that because you take a kid from—well, first off, being from

Las Vegas, showing up as a female on a kibbutz in Israel in 1983, five-foot-two, about a hundred

pounds at the time—well, five-foot-three, okay—five-foot-two, five-foot-three, a hundred pounds at the time, a freshman in college and you show up. Shall we say initially they put me in the laundry doing cloth diapers because they kind of had a little bit of a stereotype about the

Americans and women. By the time I had left the kibbutz I was the only female working in the plastics factory right alongside the men, packaging bags, running a forklift, et cetera. So it was very, very informative. It was one of the few kibbutzim that at that time allowed the children from people from Germany and Austria and some of the places that Hitler conquered that were not Jewish. So I had at the same time some students whose parents may or may not have had some ties. They were either the silent non-dissenters or could have had some active ties. It was an amazing experience to not only meet people from all around the world and all different

13 religions and different concepts, but you had some people there that were trying to find themselves, other people, such as me, who were students, because we were not on an ulpan where they place you as a group. We just got sent there and here's your little place, little cot to sleep on, enjoy, and get to work and here's where you're getting assigned. But there were people really from all over the country that were just really dynamite. I wrote a whole thesis on it, about the alternate lifestyles of basically socialism roots on the kibbutzim and whether or not it was effective in the early 1980s. As you know, they don't really have volunteers on most all the kibbutzim anymore.

Did you draw upon that experience throughout the rest of your life?

I did for a lot of things because after I finished working on the kibbutz, some of us traveled together around Israel doing some things, which I would never let my kids do, such as sleeping out on the beach in a lot. I've been fortunate. I've survived some challenges and things. But, yes, because it really...If you think of judge, Eighth Judicial Court, and most people know me for my pro bono activities, volunteering and things like that, they don't think someone who in 1983 was sleeping on a beach in a lot after just working in a kibbutz. So it's a great story to tell my kids.

Although I'm very fortunate I have wonderful children, but if they were ever to express that they have it hard, I have that in my back pocket to say, "Good luck, I had it a little harder." But it was my choice. The easy thing for me is I could leave when I wanted to. Everybody else there was really working incredibly hard to insure survival and livelihood. Remember in the early eighties, it was before all the high tech in Israel. So we would hitchhike, something I would never let my kids do, but it was fine. I held an Uzi because there were soldiers everywhere we went, of course.

So if you were going out and having a drink, and I mean like a soda, out in a cafe in the middle and you're talking to some soldiers or something, if they have to light a cigarette—I didn't

smoke, I never, I never will—but they hand you their Uzi to hold while they're doing something.

That was a very different lifestyle than when I came back because I came back at the end of the

summer and continued my college education. So, yes, I do draw upon that because from a

strength and willingness to try new things, I figure if I've done that there really isn't any

challenge that I can't overcome, and hopefully I won't find that challenge that I can't eventually

sometime in life overcome. When you running for election, people are saying, "Well, how could

you run for election and knock on doors to try and introduce yourself?" I'm like, because I was

hitchhiking in Israel in the early 1980s on my own. So it's not such a huge challenge, but some

people might find very challenging.

Yes, I can see. That's like a no-brainer. That's easy comparatively.

I wouldn't let my kids do it now. I keep saying that.

Your kids are how old?

I have a seventeen- and a fifteen-and-a-half-year-old.

So they're teenagers.

My son will be eighteen next month actually. But the only reason why I say that is because the world has changed. Whereas I had a lot of those challenges and, yes, Israel was at war; yes, I was up at Rosh Hanikra; yes, there were bombings going on and things like that; but this is pre-shield days; you didn't have the overt constant barrage. It was the exception, not the rule. Or maybe we didn't have the information available that we really didn't know how much was going on. I don't know the answer there. But now that I do, as much as I would like each of my children and encourage them each forging their own path and they are and they have and they will continue to do so, they don't need to go hitchhiking in Israel to do that because it's just not as safe as my perception of safety was in the early eighties.

Were you aware of Hank Greenspun's connection with Israel when you went? Because that kind of tethers a little bit of Las Vegas Jewish history to Israel.

It's yes and no; meaning I had read about what he had done, knew kind of him somewhat.

Through marriages and things there's some interfamily connections. But I didn't imagine myself in going to Israel—I was not trying to prove a point or be any kind of rebel. Really I was interested in the kibbutzing concept and that emergence, how you had people really surviving the

Holocaust; i.e., coming back to the early days when I saw pictures, and how people could forge and create a whole new lifestyle where you could have collective living and be successful at it, just the ultimate concept of a community. So that's really what I did. And I thought the country was beautiful and I wanted to explore it as well. So I didn't go there with any ideas, nor am I the kind of person who would be a gunrunner. That's not within my makeup. Mine was more purely intellectual curiosity and doing what's necessary to satisfy that intellectual curiosity. No, I really was never in any great dangerous type situations. I had read about it, learned about it because you learn about it, but I was far from trying to be anything like that. What he did took huge amounts of courage at the time he was doing it and was so much more on a large scale. I was just a college kid who wanted to go see what community environment was in Israel and spend a summer working on a kibbutzim and doing something that I thought would be very challenging yet rewarding, and it was.

You mentioned your sister. She's younger or older?

A year older.

A year older. What is her name?

Sharon.

Does she still live here in Las Vegas?

No. She lives in Portland, Oregon.

So you went to...Clark High School, is that where you graduated?

Yes.

And you graduated what year?

Nineteen eighty-two.

What was Clark High School like in 1982?

Well, interestingly enough, I could show you the newspaper from 1982.

Really? You keep that there?

It's right there, the Charger Newspaper. There's a reason for that. I have to go back to a little judicial history here. There is many of us on the bench that graduated from Clark High School. A few years ago when I joined the bench, there were four of us within a year apart that graduated

Clark High School. In 1981 was Valerie Adair who I had known since kindergarten because she was a year older than me and a friend of my sister and we grew up on the same street. It's a really small world, Vegas, okay, I'm getting into. We literally grew up on the same street. Then myself and Abbi Silver were both class of 1982 and good friends in high school. In 1983, Kathleen

Delaney. Kathleen Delaney, her father, Joe Delaney, used to work for the Las Vegas Sun, ran the whole entertainment. You probably know the name Joe Delaney. He passed away, may he rest in peace. So we were all good friends in high school and we all ended up, although different paths, coming to being part of the Eighth Judicial District before Abbi went to the Court of Appeals. I was yearbook editor at Clark. Abbi was on the yearbook with me. In my junior year I was both— managing editor—some kind of position with regards to the Clark's newspaper as well as yearbook. Kathleen Delaney in 1983 became the newspaper editor the year after I left when I was yearbook editor. So Kathleen Delaney had kept a series of newspapers from her Clark High

17 days, still keeping in touch with some of our teachers, which I still do keep in touch with some of my teachers even through elementary school—preschool. Excuse me. I have to say preschool. So

Kathleen, when I was mentioning something about Clark High School, said that she had an extra copy. So she gave it to me. So since she gave it to me, it's remained in my chambers. And

Kathleen, who is in the picture with Abbi, swore me in. She's in the green robe.

Okay, I see. Wow.

So that's the small full circle. So to answer your direct question, Clark High School in 1982—my son goes there now and will graduate thirty-five years after I did. He's not there because of me.

He's there because the AMSAT magnet program is a top program for math and science and technology.

I love the magnet program here.

Absolutely phenomenal. Clark is fantastic from the principal on down, Jillian Pendleton, to their magnet coordinators, Shirley McLees-Kaplan, to most all the teachers. I say that and I'm also on the board at Clark and I'm on the board at A Tech. So I really enjoy our schools here in CCSD.

But to answer your direct question, Clark in 1982 was very dynamic. At that time Hyde

Park—it was called Hyde Park Junior High—only had seventh and eighth grade because we went from elementary school, either kindergarten or first grade, through fifth grade. I was there from first grade through fifth grade because kindergarten I was at Seton Academy. Then junior high was seventh and eighth because of the sixth grade centers and that was Hyde Park. So seventh, eighth and ninth for some of us and some people just seventh and eighth. We were in junior high seventh, eighth and ninth at Hyde Park. We went to Clark in tenth grade, so tenth, eleventh and twelfth. Now the system is different. Middle schools are six, seven, eight. High schools start nine through twelve. I'm talking CCSD. So you don't have that kind of mixture.

So when we came in in tenth grade, great school, really dynamic teachers. I was very

fortunate. Yes, on the humorous small world side of things, my first principal there was a

gentleman by the name of Carroll Johnston, who sits one row in front of us for UNLV basketball

games. So I see him during UNLV basketball season still. He still looks the same. He wasn't the

principal when I was graduated, but he was the principal when I was first there. Many of my

teachers, some have passed away; some are still alive. A very dynamic education. Let's put it this way. Catherine Cortez Masto, our current senator, is Class of '82. She was on executive council with me at Clark.

That's quite a group.

Oh, we could keep going on the group. So we had a lot of people. Billy McBeath, who is now president of the Cosmopolitan but used to be with MGM, he was Class of '81 at Clark. Judge

Lloyd George's son, Stephen George, two years older me, Class of '80 at Clark. So we were all very cohesive. Like I said, we're talking race, religion, sex, national origin, sexual orientation. It was all one big group. So it very much promoted people for educational purposes, encouraged us all to go to good colleges and make sure that we moved forward in life, but yet allowed you to do a lot of diverse activities, whatever your interest was whether it was Ski Club, whether it was

Honor Society, whether it was Varsity Quiz Band, you name it. And Jimmy Kimmel was there at the same time we were there, but he is a couple of years younger.

Yes, Jimmy Kimmel. There's a lot of illustrious people from there. That's great.

Lieutenant Governor Mark Hutchison's wife was there with us. I could go on. There's a lot.

How many people graduated in your class?

Seven hundred and sixty-seven is my recollection.

Wow. That's a big class. So we're going to pause the Clark High School topic for just a

little bit here and we'll come back to it. But I want to go back to your bat mitzvah. People,

especially non-Jews, are always curious about what a bat mitzvah must be like in Las

Vegas. What was your bat mitzvah like? Where did you have it? Did you have a big party?

Metro Club. Bat mitzvahs at the time were not like they are now in Las Vegas as much although you did have events. You had things like your high school senior ball in a hotel. So it wasn't as big of a deal back then because most of our friends' parents were heads of the various hotels. So like our senior prom and stuff like that were at various hotels. Mine was the Metro Club at the

MGM. That's the original MGM before the fire. So the top floor of what now is Bally's, but, yes, was the original MGM. Yes, we did have a couple hundred people. It was a little bit different

then because unlike now where you have a lot of activities that are kid-centric, ours was pretty

much like an adult party. I had a couple of my friends there. I mentioned Florence Frost's

daughter; Ronnie Frost was there, my friend Carolyn and a couple other friends. But it was a lot

of adults that were there, more friends of parents.

So there wasn't a deejay or band or anything for kids to dance to?

No, there was a band, but it was the Dixieland jazz band. So it was more of an older type party

where kids were invited. But remember, given the time frame, late seventies, '77-78—it was May of 1977, May 21st, 1977.

So did you do the party on Friday night?

No, you did the party Saturday night.

On Saturday night, okay. But girls just didn't participate in the Saturday service.

Generally yes. At Temple Beth Sholom, yes. We did the Friday service and we did a lot of prayers and did readings and things like that. It's different the way that the services are now, just to let you know. There was more substance to a Friday night service. So, yes, we still had to

prepare everything, but it's not the whole Saturday morning service that it is these days.

And then did your children—are you raising them Jewish and are they...?

You can see my son's and my daughter's bar mitzvah pictures. So the answer is yes.

How did their celebrations differ from yours?

They had more fun. Don't quote me on that with my father. I'm just kidding. They're now

kid-centric. First off, my son is a little bit different. Sorry, it's another story. He did two, one in

Israel and one here. My son, Joshua, it was very important for him that he wanted the whole religious and the historical aspect. So he wanted to do it in Israel at the wall. So we arranged to go there. We were supposed to be able to go with my husband's parents and then my father, but then unfortunately health issues impacted both of our respective parental groups so they weren't able to join us. So it ended up just being my husband, myself, my daughter and my son going to

Israel. And I was very fortunate to have Rabbi Goodman at Temple Beth Sholom arrange one of his friends to meet us at the hotel, which then we needed a minyan. So we had to have people come in because unfortunately things happened. So he learned his whole Torah portion to have it there. Interestingly enough, his Torah portion was judges. Yes, it was coincidence. So that was

August. So originally he was going to have a bar mitzvah here in Vegas. His birthday is in

February. But because he wanted to go to Israel—excuse me. We did it in June. I said August.

August was his second one. I misspoke. So we went to Israel in June; he did it at the wall. So he learned everything, did a whole bar mitzvah ceremony there. At the time one of our nephews was in the IDF, so he came and joined us. He got relief that he could come and join us. We just did a small, little thing there. Because his grandparents were not able to join us in Israel, they asked if he'd be willing to do a second bar mitzvah. So we learned a whole new Torah portion, did a whole new bar mitzvah in August all Friday and all Saturday at Temple Beth Sholom.

What a wonderful kid.

He is very interested in learning and is very anxious to please. He is very nice. I'm very fortunate

with both of my children. So since he did that we then had a party here. So originally, as I said, it

was going to be a small Israel celebration, nothing here. So since he did all of that, the whole

service in August, we had family come out from around the country and he did the all-night

Friday services, did all the blessings and everything. Then at that time it was the cantor's very first bar mitzvah because the newest cantor had just started at Temple Beth Sholom.

Which cantor would that have been?

I'm just spacing on his name.

That's all right. We can fill that in later.

So then Josh did that and then he had his party on Sunday night at Red Rock Country Club. Yes, he had a deejay, you can see by the picture. You see one picture is my whole team here at

Department 31. They all, of course, came. Interestingly enough, we had friends who went to his bar mitzvah whose parents had been at my bat mitzvah, which was a very nice thing, and the grandparents. So we had the whole l'dor vador and, yes, had a variety of activities, dancing, et cetera, a nice cake. It was a golf theme. So I'm really fortunate. Tons of cousins. My husband's family is six, so all his brothers and sisters came out. We've got twins and triplets on his side, all from Minnesota. So had the nice thing.

My daughter, 2014, she hadn't opted for Israel. So she was just practicing for her bat mitzvah here. So she had it in May of 2014 and she had it at the Canyon Gate Country Club, which is the other picture you can see. We had a similar group of people and her friends. Did the

whole candle lighting ceremony, et cetera. She did both the Friday and Saturday service as well.

Cute kids.

Thank you.

How did you meet your husband?

I met my husband in Los Angeles at the time I was in law school. A friend of mine that I worked

the summer with lived across the street from him. So she tried to put us together. We didn't first

necessarily care for each other. A couple of years later we were at a different party with a similar

group of friends and he asked me out. Then we were fortunate to continue that. He agreed to

move to Las Vegas once we had our son, Josh. We wanted to raise him around family. So we moved from L.A. back here to Las Vegas when Josh was born.

Now, what does your husband do?

My husband is a civil engineer and a partner in an engineering company, Poggemeyer Design

Groups Scene Works. So he does a lot of public works projects—roads, bridges, things like that.

Is he from a Jewish background, too?

Yes. Although he grew up initially conservative, his parents belonged to reform. So he grew up originally in New Jersey, but moved to Minnesota at an early age. Whereas I went to Temple

Beth Sholom, his was Bet Shalom. In fact, his rabbi knows Rabbi (Sanford) Akselrad. So he did.

Then we got married at Temple Beth Sholom here in Vegas, the old Temple Beth Sholom,

March 18th, 1995, yes, on chai intentionally. We've been married ever since.

That's cool. That's great. One of the things, you were senior council for Warner Brothers.

So we'll talk a little bit about career and I hope both you and Abbi can talk about mentors

and all of that and being an attorney or in the legal world of Las Vegas. But how did you

get to be the senior counsel for Warner Bros. here?

After I left here I went to college at Claremont, double majored in political science and

psychology, magna cum laude, and always knew I really wanted to go to law school. So I went

to law school. I was fortunate I was accepted a lot of different places. I decided on UCLA for a

variety of reasons including I couldn't beat the tuition, it was a top ten law school and personal

things at the time. During law school Abbi went to Southwestern Law School. So she went to

college here at UNLV, applied and went to Southwestern. So since I was at UCLA and she was

at Southwestern, we just lived together in a place kind of in between the two law schools. So it

was very nice because we got to hang out with each other's friends, et cetera.

After law school I knew I wanted to do labor employment law, something I was very

interested in. I'm a very big sports fan. So I went to various law firms, interviewed. I went with a

firm called Paul Hastings, which at the time was doing the Dodger arbitrations, Los Angeles

Dodgers, arbitrations for their players. I'm very big into sports. So I did that and was doing labor

employment, et cetera.

After being there for a few years, an opportunity at Warner Bros. opened up because one of the other attorneys who had worked at Paul Hastings and was already at Warner Bros. told me about the opportunity. I thought it would be a great opportunity to go in-house because at that

point my husband—well, he was my boyfriend, slash, fiancée at the time. I knew I was going to

be getting married, knew I was down the road want to have a family. In-house was a great

opportunity to expand my skills and to also work internationally because Warner Bros. offered

the opportunity to work around the world with all diverse clients. So that sounded really

interesting and challenging to me. It was in Burbank. So we were buying a house in Glendale. So

kind of worked out perfectly. So I bought a house, changed jobs all within about the same month,

and was planning a wedding.

So that's how I ended up at Warner Bros. It was a great experience. The general counsel at the time, John Schulman, was Jewish. Shelley Presser, Senior Vice President, was Jewish. It

was very three-dimensional, tick-tack-toe on the one hand, but you have such a diverse clientele

you get to work with. We were actual attorneys; meaning we didn't just review papers; I actually

did litigations, wrote position statements. We also worked with outside counsel. I got to work

with great clients. I focused a lot on doing studio/store stuff, a lot of the animation things. Some

of the international posts you see up there, at the time they were launching the Warner Channel

around the world, which ended up being WBTV. So I was able to do just breadth and depth

things that you really couldn't have done in private practice. So I really enjoyed Warner Bros.

Basically after my husband and I had our son, Josh, I left Warner Bros. and moved back to

Vegas and continued in private practice until I took the bench.

So you moved back to Vegas just to be closer to family?

Right. It was very important for my husband and I. I was licensed in California and I was already licensed in Nevada. I really liked our community and I could easily see myself moving back here. But at the same time, enjoyed—we wanted to look for something that was a smaller community that allowed our children to grow up around family because family's always been very important both to my husband and myself. His family was in Minnesota; mine was mostly in Las Vegas. So I was licensed already in Nevada. I wasn't moving to the cold.

You weren't going to go shovel snow, huh?

I wasn't going to go shovel snow. So he was very amenable. Given he is a civil engineer—we're

talking 1999—Vegas was booming, huge opportunities with what he did. He was with L.A.

County beforehand as a civil engineer. He had been there for a number of years. He was moving

up in the chain there. He had really great breadth and depth of experience. People were very

excited for him to move to this community. So he had opportunities; I had opportunities. Our son

could grow up around his grandparents and some other family members. For us that was very

important to us. We're glad we made the move back.

Yes. What are the steps you take to become a judge? It's an elected position, right?

It's an elected position. Everyone is very different. For me literally you can go back to high school—and Abbi would say the same thing—people knew I was going to be an attorney. It had been written in yearbooks, written in various, different things, and could see me potentially being a judge because I like to get things resolved, I like to get things done, and I love the intellectual challenge of constantly learning. So I had been practicing. I knew down the road I probably wanted to be a judge. For me things worked out fortuitously. They opened up new spots. We originally had twenty-five departments and the election was in 2010 to expand starting 2011

Departments 26 through 32. So there were seven new departments and many of them were going to be designated to focus on civil litigation and possibly doing criminal as well. But there was a real need for civil litigators. That was completely my wheelhouse of experience. I knew I wanted to do it at some point.

My life challenge was, was it going to be okay with my family? I was so very, very fortunate. My father and my husband and my children were completely enthusiastic. So I decided that I was going to do it. I had complete family support.

I had a tough election. Very much I wanted to do grassroots; I wanted to talk with people.

I did not do any TV advertising. I knocked on thousands of doors throughout our entire community because that was the way I felt it was very important that if I was asking for someone's vote, to not just have a name on the ballot, to really have people know who I was. If I

wasn't taking the time and effort to get to meet people, how could I really ask them to vote for

me? It worked out great. I knocked on an old high school teacher's door unknowingly. I had my

second grade teacher who lives out in Moapa call me out of the blue that she saw I was running.

Kishner is, of course, my maiden name. I never changed it. My husband's last name is

Alexander. He was fine with me never changing it. I was already licensed to practice law in two states. I never really thought about me changing my name. And it worked out well because that way we jokingly kid that my husband can disown me whenever he wants and my kids can pretend I'm not really their mom. It's a joke it's totally a joke.

So I just went for it, worked incredibly hard twenty-four seven. Anyone who says that it's either easy to get elected or easy once you're in the job has never tried it because it's very rewarding to meet so many people and reconnect with other people and you get some challenges.

It worked out.

So the idea of doing the grassroots—am I right?—I'm assuming that helped build up trust in you as opposed to just being a message on a screen or billboard?

That was my hope. It's also the way I do things. I like to go out and meet people because I wanted to find out what their viewpoints are because usually judicial races, since they're considered, quote, down ballot they're so low on the ballot that a lot of people don't vote for judges, and I really wanted people whether they decided I was the right person or not for them that at least they get to meet a judge, a judicial candidate. That's really one of the things that I found the most—particularly like when we were in Bunkerville. Many people who live in Las

Vegas have never really even been out to Bunkerville. But we'd go out and knock on doors. My family would be with me most of the time. I will completely credit all my family members, but particularly my son would go out with me. We were in Sun City and different places. And he'd have his list of "we're going to accomplish X number by this day." Remember he's only eleven at the time, pretty determined. I'd be like—in the middle of the summer—"Okay, I think we've done enough." "No, no, no, we committed we're going to do..." It was just really nice family

time. I know that sounds contradictory. But when we went out to Bunkerville and things like that, we went down to St. George afterwards and went to Tuacahn and saw a play. So we did it

all day and then we did something family oriented. Or we'd go up to Lake Mead and go to Valley

of Fire. So we did a lot of community activities. We did a lot of the charity walks, a lot of the

things that were very family oriented, things at Springs Preserve. So I really got to spend a lot of

time with my immediate family, my kids and my husband, and they were very supportive. So I

thought that grassroots would be the way I'd want to run an election and it worked out for me. So

it's kind of nice on both ends.

That's great. That's a really heartwarming way to look at that. I remember asking Judge

Cherry the same thing. Do you believe that it's best to have judges elected in general or be

appointed? I know there's a school of thought both ways, right?

There is a school of thought both ways. I never tried to get appointed, so I don't have that

experience, so I can't say one way would or would not have been better. For me I knew there was

a stereotype or a perceived bias—and I don't know if it's true or not true and I've never looked

into it—that historically women and minorities have not usually been appointed, and so I don't

know if that's accurate or not accurate. But if you look at the election process, many women and

minorities get elected. So if you're looking in that microcosm with that lens, you might say that

elections. At the same time, we have some excellent judges on the bench who are appointed. So I

think both methods can get you people that are very effective in the judiciary and I don't really

think there's really a right or a wrong answer.

That's good. That's good perspective. Thank you.

[Pause in recording]

Your grandparents are from Russia?

ABBI: Yes. My two grandfathers are both from Russia and then my grandmother, my mother's mother, is from Russia. Then my dad's mother was an orphan from Ireland. So if you ever saw the movie "Philomena," it kind of freaked me out. But anyway, talk about an interesting marriage. I won't go into the whole thing, but my grandfather was Ben Silver, a Russian Jew

with no education, and was a butcher and married Susan L. Conway, an Irish red-haired

blue-eyed lady, and she was Catholic, very Catholic. So my father is Frances Paul Silver. He

thought he was Jewish his whole life until he went to marry my mother back in the fifties. The rabbi would not marry you unless you were technically Jewish and you are what your mother is.

He didn't know. He had to convert to Judaism to marry my mother. But he said to me he always thought he was Jewish. My dad always wore a mezuzah. I didn't know. I didn't know that until I was older. So that's where my grandparents...I'm second generation American.

Interesting. So what else have we not covered here, ladies, in this friendship and this parallel universe that you live in?

I think we pretty much have. I think we both have strong ties to community, both Jewish historical Vegas. If you look at it, it's kind of interesting. I already mentioned about Val Adair

and Kathleen Delaney being one year above us and one year below us in high school and how

Catherine Cortez Masto was our year.

Yes. We did pretty good at Clark, huh?

I think it's amazing.

We got some strong ladies coming out of Clark High School, yes, great high school.

How do we attribute the success of women in Nevada?

Well, we were all good friends. We are all good friends.

But in a positive sense.

Yes.

Interestingly, we were all on yearbook, too.

Yes. Yes, we were all in yearbook. Was Delaney in yearbook?

Delaney was in newspaper. I was with Delaney in newspaper.

Oh, okay. See, I forgot that, didn't I? I haven't fully gone yet, have I?

She did a little bit of yearbook, but we were mostly yearbook because Kathrine, Jenny Frank— yes. You were senior editor or photo editor.

I was student life. I was the cheerleader. Does that make sense? I was the cheerleader.

Yes, yes.

And she was the song leader in high school.

Oh, my gosh, I have the picture right here. It comes up on my screen saver because I gave it to my kids. I won't go into that on the record. It's cute. Just to make them nuts.

The nice thing really about this community is as much the community gets criticized for being forty-ninth in relation for education, we really have historically had very dynamic, very interesting teachers. I was mentioning Carroll Johnston.

Who?

Carroll Johnston, our first principal at Clark. I still see him at UNLV games.

Oh, that's good.

He sits one row ahead of us. The nice thing really about Clark County in general, and I say Las

Vegas, but I would include obviously Henderson and everything as well, is there's always been a very strong sense of community and I think that was shown at the time we were in high school.

[Looking at photographs]

So those were important years to you guys.

Oh, yes.

Both of you have accessed on not just the memories, but something physical in your office

space that goes back to that. That's really cool.

Yes, Chargers.

But it ties all the community. It doesn't really matter if it went to—well, we all say it does

because we went to Clark. But there's a large group of people who went to Gorman, mostly on

the federal bench. I think it's going back to community. We were very fortunate we had—

Well, I went to UNLV, too. And when I went to UNLV that's where I really met a lot of friends

from Gorman and Valley, Bonanza. So it was like a melting pot back then. Everybody went to

UNLV. So you really got to meet everybody from all the different high schools. I still remain

friends with all those people despite the fact I went to Clark. We are all really good friends and

they went to Gorman or they went to Valley or Bonanza or Western. Some of my friends that I

used to hang out with in college, which blows me away, like Trevor Scherrer, president of

Mirage; Scott Sibella, president of MGM; Bill McBeath, my next-door neighborhood, president of Cosmopolitan. So we all did really pretty good between Clark and Western right there.

But it was really a sense of community.

Yes. We all knew each other. And it's nice because now we all know each other. Oddly enough,

we're all in positions of power, many of us. So it's funny because you say, "Well, I know the

president of that hotel; yes, president of Cosmo was my next-door neighbor growing up and I'd

see him at the mailbox in a bathrobe." That's how it was. It was just totally different, so small

back then. Actually Vegas was a small town back then.

So you were like the next wave of pioneers, if pioneers can be layered into a history. The

Jewish pioneers were family.

I think our parents definitely were pioneers for Jewish pioneers.

We had it so much easier than our parents did obviously.

Yes, sure, out here.

I think so realistically. They opened up a lot of doors or ceilings or however you'd like to phrase

it and then they encouraged us to walk through and break further ceilings. So we were very, very

fortunate. I think it really goes back to our community. Even when you meet people at a variety

of different events, the various activities that I'm strongly involved in, as soon as I say, "Well, I

grew up here," usually you get a lot more support. Like, pro bono, we're trying to talk to law

firms to encourage them to do pro bono, we say it's right for so many different reasons and then

explain, look, I grew up here and this is part of our community, et cetera. There's always

somebody at one of those law firms, "Oh, well, what high school did you go to?" If it's not the high school, then what junior high?

I still ask that. Right.

So then you get people to jump onboard in doing something for the community and I think that's positive. This is Jewish oral history, but it's positive throughout the community, but I think we also are so very fortunate in that we had that community within a smaller community that has so many different aspects now. Harmony Letizia just got elected justice of the peace. Her good friend is married to one of my third cousins or second cousins once removed or whatever it is.

It's something close to that. At the same time, her grandfather is friends with my father and we also knew her parents, not as well because there's a little bit of different generational aspect. So to have that it's really l'dor vador. We have that generation that's continued on. The Mason

32 family has done that. The Mack family has done that. The Steinbergs. Suzanne Green and I went to Girls State together. I never knew her, because she went to Valley, as much. But then we met at Girls State and we realized, no, we really had grown up—she sat two rows in front of me in temple and we didn't know each other that well, but now we're still friends. Our kids were in track against each other and now we're doing certain events. It's all very nice. My daughter's in

BBYO. I think I mentioned...I keep going back to Ronnie Frost Tarr, Florence Frost. So it's

Florence Frost's granddaughter Aiden Tarr was head of the BBYO chapter and encouraged my daughter to do it, gave her a lot of mementos of when she first started BBYO several years before Aiden is back at college. There just was an event last Thursday with my daughter. She came back from being on college vacation to be back with the BBYO group with my daughter.

Then like the Sachs family, Heather Sachs was there. So you've got three generations of Sachs family. You've got three generations from ours. You've got three generations of Frosts. You had

Jerry Engel's granddaughter. So you have all these multigenerational-aspect encouraging people to keep giving back to the community. Even if you leave for a while, like I did because I wanted to pursue certain academic pursuits, and then come back, it's a sense of community, it's a sense of heritage and it's a community within a community, the Jewish community, (indiscernible).

Oh, I didn't have one. What were we talking about?

The sense of community.

It's generational for me. My dad was really out here. I would say a lot of the doctors' kids—it's funny—I see whether they're Jewish or not. We just see a lot of each other.

This project really—I tell people it starts out that the common denominator is Jewish ancestry, but if you just look at the interviews I have done, you really get a whole history of this city because it wasn't really segmented.

Yes, it wasn't.

When Justice Cherry's mother moved out, he lived in the apartments owned by my family.

My dad probably gave her a hysterectomy. I'm just kidding. I'm just throwing it out there that more than likely my dad treated her.

It ties it all together.

But it does tie it all together. Then David Cherry is good friends—well, formerly was good friends with someone that I also grew up with that used to be Cantor Bergman's daughter, Alyssa

Bergman. When I left Warner Bros. a few years later, curiously enough, we were at the same law firm. After I left Warner Bros, I went to DLA Piper's predecessor, and Alyssa was in one of our

East Coast offices, Alyssa Bergman from Las Vegas. Came back, visited her, boom, oh, my gosh, I know your family. She's got boys younger than I do, so I didn't necessarily know her as well. Now she's at Warner Bros. although I left there and she's been there for a number of years.

So it's all a small world.

I don't know all my dad's patients. I can't tell you how many people walk up to me and say, "Your dad saved my life," or, "Your dad delivered my baby." It's countless. It will just be at random places. Everybody knows my dad. So I just couldn't tell you because that's how much. He just was really big back here back then.

Then for my one last anecdote since people love Vegas history, yes, Joan Rivers used to come to

Temple Beth Sholom and sit in the row right behind us with a big fur coat. Even if it was

September for Rosh Hashanah, she was there in a fur coat.

You know where I saw her? I Magnum's and J Magnum's, oh, yes, on the Strip. I didn't see her at synagogue. I saw her with my mother shopping. I know this will shock you. It would always be

Joan and her daughter, Melissa. And my mom would always say, "Look, there's Joan." Then my

mom would be cool, like let's just see what they're buying. Then we'd walk over and we were

playing it cool. There was a mutual respect because Joan's from Philly, by the way.

Right. But the Jewish entertainers would come to the synagogue if they were here, if they were

performing at High Holidays. So you had a nice kind of...

I've got a good story. My mom was at Smith's Food King off Rancho and Alta where I grew up

and Jerry Lewis walked in because, of course, Jerry lives off of—I can't say where.

I know where he lives.

But anyway, he lives somewhere around there. So he walks in and my mom runs up to him and

says, "Oh, my god, Jerry, do you know who I am?" And Jerry looks at her like she's a nut and

says, "No, lady, please tell me, who are you?" She says, "Well, I'm Abbi Silver's mother." And

Jerry was like, "Oh, my god, I love Abbi." Because, of course, I was one of Jerry's attorneys— well, I was his only attorney when he got stalked and I put his stalker in prison. The stalker ultimately died in prison. But I went all over the state, like legislature, speaking with Jerry regarding the stalking laws because some of the stalking laws that were strengthened were from

Jerry Lewis who, P.S., is Jewish. But it's just a funny Smith's Food King story running into another entertainer, Jerry Lewis. It's a good story of my mom.

That's a great story.

And then he couldn't bow down hard enough. He loved my mother after that. But he thought she was a complete nut bag when she first walked up to him.

I've tried to get his oral history because I can't get enough of the Jewish entertainers who have lived here or live here.

My sisters, when we were growing up, used to go to his telethon every year at the Sahara. My sisters actually were in an elevator with Jerry, and so there's all kinds of stories. That's why I

was mortified when my mom said she walked up to him. I thought, oh, my god, no, you did not.

"Yes, yes, I did; I just walked right up to him and told him who I was."

Now, how did you get that job with him?

Well, I was the Chief of Special Victims Unit. So what happened is the FBI came in and said— and I wrote the laws that are on the books on stalking. When Jerry was being stalked, Stu Bell called me in his office and said, "The FBI is here. How are we going to get Jerry Lewis' stalker?" Because there were no federal laws that were similar to our stalking laws to stop somebody. This was in the mid-nineties. So I took the case and that's how I became very close

with Jerry Lewis. I've been to his house. We went to the legislature together. We had a couple of

things changed, one of which was the penalty on how long—it used to be a one to six felon,

aggravated stalking. Jerry testified. Even after his stalker was in prison for six years, he came

out, on coming out at the prison. He expired his sentence after six years, the longest he could

have spent. He came right out and started stalking him again.

Oh, my, really?

Yes. So we got it changed. We were trying to get a two to twenty in Nevada State Prison for a

conviction on aggravated stalking, but ultimately the legislature passed a law and it was two to

fifteen and it remains on the books. But those stalking laws and stalking orders and protective

orders came about largely in part because of the Jerry Lewis case that I worked with. So I was

able to take that. That's one of my big cases from the DA's Office. If I called him right now...I

could still call him at any time. I don't know if I could get you an interview, but I know—

You could always put in a good word for me.

I know I can tell you that when I ran for judge, another really funny story is that I was at a

country club having breakfast and one of my good friends came over and said, "Oh, my god, I

just got a call for Jerry Lewis saying that I should vote for you for judge." I started laughing and

I go, "Oh, good." He had just turned fifty-five. He was an ex-cop. In fact, he ended up going to

Nevada State Gaming Control Board and he was a police officer. He played volleyball with me.

So he liked to think he was more my age. But I said something like, "Oh, good, all of my senior calls went out then for the robocalls." But Jerry did a taping for my robocalls for judge. I can't tell you how many people—it went to mostly seniors. My kids, they don't know who Jerry Lewis is. It's a certain age and above that know who Jerry Lewis is. Of course, he's beyond famous.

He's a legend. But he really does well with the senior groups, of course. He's a legend. So when most people get a robocall, they hang up. They don't want to vote for so-and-so. They hear, "Hi, it's Jerry Lewis, I want you to vote for my good friend Abbi Silver for judge. She is the best." He's always been there for me.

That means a lot.

Yes. It's pretty cool.

That is.

And he gave me things, too, at his house. He gave me a pen. He gave me a CD. He gave me a bunch of little trinkets and he goes, "One day these are going to be worth something, Abbi. Keep these."

That's sweet. That really is.

Yes. Kind of a neat thing he said—he begged me—I remember him crying and looking at me during his case and said, "You have to make sure you put this guy away, Abbi, you have to. I'm so scared, not for me. I'm not afraid of this guy. But I am afraid for my little daughter." His little daughter who was like in elementary school at the time. I guess that was around—I'm trying to even think. I can't remember years. But say it was mid-nineties, about '96. So how old is that

little child now? I ended up putting him in prison and he died in prison. He have so happy, Jerry.

He was scared to death. This guy came to his house with a gun and he was a mental, crazy...He was truly the definition of insane. He was scared of him, again not so much for himself, but

really for his child. I'm really glad to say I think today, the year 2017, he didn't have to worry

about his little daughter all these years that I was able to put that stalker away and he's able to

live comfortably without the fear of this person.

So were there a series of stalker cases that moved that—

Oh, yes, that I did. I did John Ensign's. I put his stalker away. Harry Reid's stalker away. Jerry

Lewis' stalker away. I put Steve Wynn's stalker away. I put our former Sheriff Moran, his stalker

away. Then just countless other people's stalkers away. I did all the stalking cases at the DA's

Office. All of them went to me because they were almost like a lot of little cases put into one

because it's a course of conduct. So you don't just have one crime, you have like a hundred

crimes. You have a hundred phone calls. You have a hundred notes left. It's just a lot of evidence.

So they're really big cases as far as for evidence for prosecuting. It wasn't just one day it

happened, like a robbery. You go to a 7-Eleven, sadly it happens. It was over sometimes years.

Jerry Lewis' was over years. Harry Reid's and Ensign's were over years. Steve Wynn's was over maybe a two-year period. So every case is different. All of them are men on men. Isn't that weird? Yes, they weren't women. But I've had women that stalk men. There's every variation. But the high profile ones ended up being men with severe mental issues or disease that were stalking based on whatever came into their brain that didn't make any sense to most people, but they decided to stalk these public figures, which is how stalking laws came about, from "My Sister

Sam" out of California with that actress. Those are really how the stalking laws came about was from that young lady.

I remember that case.

She was really the pioneer. It was that horrific instance of murder, of somebody who just saw a star and stalked them and killed them that all of these stalking laws came about. My cases were very similar to it makes no sense why from my public ones. A lot of my other ones were domestic,

violence related, estranged relationships. But these happened to be really interesting because

they were much more...In fact, in Jerry Lewis' [case] I happened to be watching "Where Are

They Now Music" or "Behind the Music VH1" or something like that and I saw this stalking

expert on Madonna's cases on all these high profile L.A. cases and I went to Stu Bell and I said,

"I want to get this guy." He's out of San Diego and his name is Reid Meloy. He's a psychologist

there. He's high profile. All these crazy cases he's testified in. So we were able to hire him for

that case, for Jerry Lewis'. He really did it more for the publicity because I had to get him down

on the price of what he generally charged per hour as a stalking expert. He testified in some

other, maybe it was Steve Wynn's case, too. I'd always get experts because there were mental

issues and really explaining some of the stalking behaviors. But they're really interesting cases.

That's how I got to know Jerry or some of these people, Steve Wynn.

Well, yes, you're really protecting them.

Yes.

Were there other highlights of your career?

Oh, John Bobbitt, I prosecuted him for beating up his stripper girlfriend. And Mayweather, I

convicted Mayweather like three different things, Floyd Mayweather. I was the original

convicter of Floyd Mayweather when I was a prosecutor. So I got a lot of the high profile cases,

obviously.

You didn't shy away from it.

I loved it. The higher the profile, the better. I loved being on TV. That was fun. I wish some of those things were taped. I have some tapes. I have them at home and we recorded them. I think they're on VHS. They're boxed away somewhere. They're somewhere. I'm still on "Investigative

Discovery," some really high murder cases. Who was just saying to me, "I was watching

'Investigative Discovery' and I heard your voice?"

Is that a TV show?

Yes, "Investigative Discovery," it's on TV. It was a high profile murder case I did. I was like,

"Oh, which one?" Because a couple of them have been on there of cases that I've done. That's a big deal. Or "America's Most Wanted," I used to be on quite a bit on my murder cases.

Are there any low points in your career that you wish you could have won or done over again? It sounds like you were pretty successful.

Well, you can't really regret. My mom would say, "It's bashert; what is meant to be is to be and it was supposed to have happened that way." So I don't think that there's regrets. Looking back, gee, should I have done something differently? Well, yes. But I really look back at my career and

I am beyond grateful and thankful. What a fun job I have, putting bad people away. My cases were always like—I was like the fun of every cocktail party—"Hey, tell me another one. What,

John Bobbitt?" Or I'd get a case where somebody cut off somebody's penis or bit somebody's penis off. I had that many times. Ray Rawson, our state senator, he was my forensic odontologist in a couple of bite-off-penis cases. So I always had fun stuff to talk about because real life is stranger than fiction. You don't make light of serious, obviously, rapes or murders, but some crazy stuff did happen in between. You don't make fun of any serious victimization, but there are always light-hearted moments. Then, also, many of the horrific—I mean, we saw the worst of the worse, death penalty after death penalty case or a child murder or a baby murder. So there's

40 nothing good or funny or anything that comes out of anything. But the experience with those families, I will say this, I don't regret any of that part of my career at all because I'm still friends with so many of my victims. I just got a gift yesterday from a victim of stalking. I just took it home last night and they brought it to me for Christmas. Since 1992, she has brought me a

Christmas gift every single year. I would have had it in here; I took it home last night.

You made a difference, Abbi.

Well, I guess. That means so much to me. I forget that and some of the little people that I've touched. Then sometimes I've met little people who are now big people and I'll say, "Do you remember me?" And they'll say, "No." It's happened a couple of times. And I thought, good, good, because these have been victims of child sexual assault or child abuse, horrific, sexual assault. It will be ten or fifteen or twenty years later and I'll say, "Do you remember me?" And they'll say, "No." And I'm really, really super happy on that one because then I think, gosh, they put it behind them; yea, they're living their life. But to the parents—another group, their son was murdered in 1990, and I was just saying something before the recorder went on about something on that murder case, and I just was texting them the other night. They were just wishing me well because it was in the newspaper that I became chief judge. They've come to every vestiture I've had and they're always, always, always there for me. They've watched my career go. But to think that they stand behind me when I stood behind them, like, wow. So it's kind of cool.

One case that comes up every once in a while in the Jewish community was the disappearance of a kid from Temple Beth Sholom. You would have been a kid.

The Sayegh case. Oh, I remember it well. That's a horrific case, yes, horrible.

That was never solved, right?

Was it the Carpet Barn, is that it, the owner of the Carpet Barn?

Yes, yes.

Yes, I was here then. Oh, my mother and father were mortified. It's horrific. They did finally find

the body, right?

No, I don't think they did.

Yes, I thought they did. I thought they found the body. I thought they found it decapitated. Or am

I thinking of the John Walsh one?

That might have been the John Walsh one, yes.

Maybe. So they've never found that body?

Yes. Anyone who has told me are that story...That scared everybody.

That was a huge case. Yes, it did, it scared everybody. Yes, we were here then. We were in

Boulder City. Obviously it's changed through the years, but talk about hardly any crime. I grew

up never locking my door, getting in strangers' cars. Everybody knew everybody. It just was a

different world back then. I rode my bike everywhere. So it was just totally different. Boulder

City was really different than Vegas even. But we all remember that. Yes, very sad. I was a kid when that happened. Was that '71, '72, '73? I think early seventies.

I don't remember what year. Maybe it was that era because people would talk about when

they were kids at the school.

That was a big deal. He was taken off the school, wasn't he?

Yes.

Yes, that's it. He was taken off the school.

Oscar Goodman talked about it.

Yes. There's all kinds of rumblings that maybe sadly it was a get back at the parents or

something. Is that what people believed?

There were a lot of different theories on it. Oscar was pretty sure he thought he knew who did it.

Did he?

Yes. Of course, you can't—

Nobody really knows about—

Nobody knew for sure, right. They were never able to prove anything.

Right, right, right. Well, there's a difference between what they thought, and probably, I'm sure,

Goodman had a good insight.

Well, there's something. I worked for Goodman. Not really for Goodman. What happened is my first year in law school when I came back, I worked for a criminal defense attorney named

John Momot who works on the third floor of 520 South Fourth Street, and the second floor was

Goodman and Stein. They shared a case; it was criminal defense and it was the largest methamphetamine ring in the history of Nevada at that time, bust. John Momot, who I worked for as an intern or law clerk, summer law clerk, he had one defendant, and Goodman and Stein had the Crutchfield brothers. I was so lucky to go downstairs all the time because they had a big law library. I remember I was like twenty-one. And the cart lady would walk by and ask you, "Do you want some tea? Do you want some coffee? Do you want some soda?" And I thought, man, have I made it. I'm working in Oscar Goodman's office. I got the cart lady asking me what I want to drink. I thought, this is the life. So I used to laugh.

I used to go against Oscar. When I was a DA, I would go against Oscar and Chesnoff and Steve Stein that I used to make nuts. I used to make all of them nuts because they were defense attorneys and I was this young prosecutor, later on.

But when I worked for John Momot, "Fat Herbie" Blitzstein was being prosecuted by the

feds. It was so exciting because these criminals would call and say, "Abbi, if you help get me out,

honey, I'll take you to an island on the Caribbean." Here I was like twenty-one. I lived with teddy

bears and stuffed animals at my parents' house. They had no idea who they were talking to. I

sounded cute at twenty-one over the phone, but...Then John Momot—do you know who he is?

No.

Well, he's Italian and he's from New Jersey and he's like...I'll just do an impression. So a client

would walk in and they'd look at me. And here I had this long hair to my butt. I was twenty-one. I didn't look half bad. I was a professional cheerleader, if I didn't tell you that.

Yes, yes.

Throughout college.

I saw your picture.

No, that was high school. I was a professional cheerleader for the NBA.

Oh, a professional cheerleader, oh.

Oh, yes, I danced at Caesars and at the Hilton. I forgot those things. That was in college.

So some of these riff-raff would come over and start talking to me, and John would grab them and say, "You see her, Vinnie? You don't look at her. You don't touch her." And Vinnie would say, "Come on, Johnny, she seems nice." "She's a nice girl; you don't touch her; you don't look at her; you understand me?" And Vinnie would say, "Yeah, sure, Johnny, sure, I won't talk to her; it's okay." This is what would go on when I was working there at Momot's office because he represented so many—like I said, "Fat Herbie" Blitzstein, all of them. It was the mob.

Were you ever frightened by these characters?

Not with John there I wasn't. And John at the time was dating a Lido showgirl and she was beautiful. She would come in and she was like six-foot-whatever, gorgeous showgirl. That's what

I first worked for. That's a fun fact.

That is true Vegas. That's the Vegas that everybody wants to hear about.

And Mike Cherry was next door doing the fire litigation for the Hilton. That's how I met Mike

Cherry. That is how I met Mike Cherry. So Mike met me when I was twenty-one and I was working for John Momot, who, again, was on that case with Oscar. That's how I met Oscar

Goodman and Steve Stein and Chesnoff and all them.

So when people ask you about growing up or even working around this cast of characters—

Oh, see, I forgot about that. I worked at Caesars Palace as a lifeguard all through college. By day I was a lifeguard; at night I danced there.

No. Really?

Yes. Yes.

What show were you in?

It was a show in 1984 and it mirrored the Olympics. It was just a summer show because, obviously, I went to school. Of course, I was covered. I was a professional dancer as far as acrobatics and jazz and tap, ballet. I took ballet since I was two. I love dancing. In fact, I started with—I was going to do Suzanne Somers "Bal Du Moulin Rouge" at the Hilton and that would have required me to be up until like one in the morning, and my dad said, "How long do you think a dancer's career is?" Because, remember, my dad is an OB/GYN. By the way, his clientele were dancers, strippers, and, oddly enough, Marilyn Chambers.

I remember that name, yes.

Yes, yes. Anyway, my dad said, "Abbi, what if you get hurt? Even if you don't get hurt, your career is until twenty-five; that's it, and then you're too old. You have to go to school." He

45 wouldn't let me do that show.

But, oddly enough, my choreographer sent me to another audition and I thought—again, it was a show because I would do little shows here and there. After I made it I found out. I got the part. I went with full stage makeup and character shoes. And they say, "Oh, congratulations, you are a cheerleader for the Utah Jazz." I was like, "What, I'm a cheerleader? I don't want to be a cheerleader again." "Yes, you're a cheerleader for the Jazz." What happened is two years I was a professional cheerleader for the Utah Jazz.

Now, how did that come about? I was in Las Vegas. Well, Utah had just left New Orleans and they were just starting in Salt Lake and they weren't getting enough money in the following.

So they played half of their home games in the Thomas and Mack and a half of their home games at the Salt Palace. So I would go back and forth to the Salt Palace in Utah and I cheered at the

Thomas and Mack. So when Kareem Abdul-Jabbar made the most points in NBA history, I cheered at that game.

How cool is that?

Pretty cool. Little known fact, boom. It's on YouTube. You might be able to see my hand, I don't know. No. It is.

That's fascinating.

Yes. I have pictures, still pictures, but I tried to just get pictures to show my kids, like, hey, I could bust a move. Apparently it's like a Disney vault; you can't get to these things and it only comes out every fifty years. I don't know. But I can't get my hands on it. If anybody can get their hands on the footage of me dancing that would be great. I met Kareem. I remember introducing my mom to Magic Johnson. I'm sure my mom was there for that one.

Oh, yes. That's awesome.

Yes. Oh, and then my friends tell a funny story. This is a good story. My friends from high school, who ultimately went to UNLV with me, would say, "Don't you remember you gave us those front row tickets to the Jazz game and then you begged us to come watch you dance? And we were like, 'No, Ab, we're sick of you dancing.'" And then I said, "Please, you don't understand. There's this new guy; his name is Michael Jordan. You've got to watch him play."

And I gave them free front row tickets to watch him play with this new guy that they never heard of called Michael Jordan.

Tell me they did come.

Oh, they went. And they laughed that I begged them to come and I gave them front row free seats if they would just come to watch me dance.

Did you get paid for doing that?

Twenty-five dollars a game.

That was it?

Oh, yes, big money. Yes, I did. But you made little side money doing things at the convention center, wear your uniform and be a Jazz girl and greet people; that kind of thing. Now I look at what the professional cheerleaders are doing, calendars or on the web or whatever, modeling.

Who knows? I'm not saying it would have made a lot of money, but I could have certainly made more than twenty-five a game. I could have made more. That was one of my jobs. I'd have four jobs on any given day, working and going to school.

So you were going to school. You were doing cheerleading.

Yes, I was a bank teller. I was a lifeguard. I was a cheerleader. I was a hostess. What else did I do? Oh, and I was a receptionist and like billing clerk. All of that in college.

Amazing. What did your siblings end up doing? You said, what, you have four siblings?

My brother works for the county. He was a project manager over at the airport. Now he's over at

Water Reclamation and he was at UMC. He did work for some casinos. He does more

accounting and he does like regulations and stuff like that, regulation enforcement. And then my

two sisters are homemakers.

So where are you in the hierarchy of all that?

I'm the third. I'm the baby girl.

I'm always curious about it how it works out.

I know. I seem like I'd be the first child from what I understand, but I'm the third. I think I was an

overachiever because nobody paid attention as a middle child. That's my theory.

Plus, I think there must have been something interesting about all of you being thrown

together in that same class at Clark; that you were kind of feeding off of each other's

energy. I can't help but think that you get a group of kids who are working hard—

Yes, super motivated.

Yes. That that just helps.

We're really good families. We're all still really close. In fact, we were all just texting, "Oh, I

love you; I love you, too," from this get-together we had. They come from all over the country and we always meet at Christmas or the holidays, whatever. We always meet one night out.

Do you have a special place you like to meet or does that move around?

It moves. It moves around. Yes, this time it was some tiki place. It was fun, though. We had so much fun.

I'll bet.

Yes, it was good seeing them. But, yes, we had a good group. We have good families, just really nice people. It was a good community. It still is.

It really sounds great. It's terrific.

Yes. That's what I want to instill, like that closeness, with my kids. I always make some of them, who I won't name who you know that have already been brought up—I'll say, "Oh, that boy was so mean in high school and he turned out to be a really nice man." He was mean or he teased us or whatever. That's just the way it is, right, high school and junior high.

Part of growing up.

Yes, yes. And it got brought up again two weeks ago. "You were so mean in high school and look at how nice you are now."

I don't think that ever changes from one class to another. Any other stories you want to share with me? This has been great.

Those were some good ones.

That really was. That was great.

I forgot all those. Joanna has been hogging my vibe. Joanna's always so serious. You can tell I'm kind of the funnier one. Well, there's no doubt I'm the funnier one.

You balance each other out.

Right. She's very, very serious. So I'm funny, light-hearted, kind of witty.

Does that help with the kind of cases you...?

Yes. But my mom and dad are funny. My mom is really funny. She is a total character. So I think she instilled that humor. And my kids are really funny and I see that in them, too. That's innate.

Either, I think, you have it or you don't. I don't know, where did it come from?

We ask all the time. That's one of the reasons I thought it would be interesting to interview someone like Jerry Lewis is that sense of Jewish humor, seeing the irony in life.

Yes, yes, and self-deprecate.

Yes. And willing to take those risks and be the brunt of the joke.

Yes. And he hasn't responded?

I can't get a response from him.

Shoot. Tell him you’re Abbi. No, I'm kidding, don't. I'm calling for Abbi Silver. He might answer.

No, I'm kidding.

I'll vote for her.

You'll vote. Please, give me the interview.

What's the sign down here? "Meaningful, outstanding, trusting, honest."

But he's great. Just to listen to him, I really appreciate it now. He's amazing.

Yes. He's got a great story. When you get to be that age to be able to reflect back on your success and what the world has brought you and what you've brought to the world, it's really heartwarming.

Amazing.

Yes, yes. I was starting to ask about this sign down here. It says, "Meaningful, outstanding,

trusting, honest, excellent, respective." Is that you?

From kids. I know. It's shocking, isn't it?

What kids, your kids?

Yes, yes, yes. You'll see there's no diplomas. It's just like a kid sign and kid art, child art.

Well, I think it's wonderful. You have to encourage it. It's important.

That's what makes me happy in my little room here while I'm reading all day long. That's what

it's really all about. It's really not about another plaque or an award or an accolade, isn't it? It's

really about family and our own families truly and sticking together with that family. And what

means more than family to any of us? It's our number-one thing, right?

Yes, you're absolutely right.

And also where exactly do I put that besides right there?

I think it's great. That's really super. Complete with flowers and a smiley face.

Yes, really cute.

That is really sweet.

Really sweet, yes. I used to always have my room covered with stuff that victims would make me, but now...It's been a long time. I've been a judge now for almost fourteen years. So all those things have been taken down, replaced, but I keep them. I have everything.

If you hadn't been in law, what would you have been in?

Oh, gosh, hold on. I had an answer for this. Well, dance for sure. I would have been a dancer.

There's no doubt. I would have made more of dancing. How, I don't know. Where would I be right now? It wouldn't be pretty. It would be some dive bar somewhere, pathetic. Yes, I love to dance. Dance was always my first love, for sure. After that I don't know. Comedy maybe because

I think I'm funny.

I can see you doing that.

Comedy. I'm always told, "Oh, my gosh, you should do a "Judge Judy" show because you're so funny."

You have a great personality.

I have to honestly shut my mouth half the time because people don't realize how much—I will say things and I really have to watch it because it's not obviously what they would expect a judge would say, but it's funny.

Does that happen when you're sitting on the bench? How do you make it—

It's happening in my head. I crack myself up in my head because it would be inappropriate on

the bench. Obviously in district court when you're a trial judge, it would be really inappropriate, almost anywhere. If you don't have a jury and it's law and motion and there's not probably the general public and it's just the attorneys and something funny goes down and it's the right

moment, I've said many things that people have laughed at. But it really has to be appropriate.

I'm not saying inappropriate choice, I'm saying inappropriate timing. Timing is everything. So

most of the time it goes off in my head. Something pops up in my head and I don't repeat it.

You swallow a lot of that.

Yes. I have some good stuff up there. Things come out or people do something and I think...Or

something happens funny at trial. But you can't say anything obviously at trial.

So I couldn't help but think of when you watch TV shows and there is those...Now I'm trying to think of a TV show. They have the quirky judge on the bench. So that kind of personality is possible in real world?

Well, judges come in all shapes and sizes and we're all different people. But I will say this. When

you take this job and this oath, you're set to the highest standard, obviously, and the people put

their trust in you. So you must act at all times professional. Whether I'm in the elevator, here, or

on the bench or just with you here, I mean we're always appropriate. When we're out in public

and my kids want to start fighting, I look at them and I go, "I am a judge; do not embarrass me."

There's always a certain way that you must act. I think that's important and you should always

respect the position. So I really don't like it if a judge does not respect the position. If they do

something that is demeaning or diminishes what we do, I don't think that's funny at all because

it's so important what we do. We have such an important role in people's lives. But, on the other

hand, we are humans and sometimes that will show through. It's not always a bad thing,

compassion, for example. I had to bite my lip when I was in district court. It's not as much up

52 here because we're reading a hardcore record. But when you watch somebody cry on the stand and talk about their darkest hour or their moment or the taking of their loved one and what their life is like now, it doesn't matter what case it is, we can all relate and to have that compassion. I honestly have to bite my lip not to cry on many things. It's very hard not to show your emotion, but it's very important for us not to show emotion because, of course, either side, you are fair and impartial to both sides. So that's somebody's witness on either side. And you certainly can't have the jury thinking that it affects you in any way because the jury is always watching you. So when you're a district court judge, you really better sit up straight and make sure nothing you do on that bench is anything less than judicious at all.

So, yes, am I fun-loving talking to you, talking about family, talking about growing up in

Las Vegas? Yes, I'm myself. In fact, when I was an attorney, I would laugh and say I look like the

Quaker oats girl. I was very, very conservative. I dressed conservative. Right now, look at my nails. I always wear a French manicure. I have silver sparkly, very Jewish nails right now.

They're very Jewish. I'm very happy about that and proud of it. But I looked a certain way. My juries would always say when I'd come back and talk to them, "Oh, my god, you're so different than the four weeks we just watched in court. You're so different than that."

So I don't know if that gives you a hint of when you're on, you're on, and you better be a hundred percent professional. When you're off—I'm not saying I'm unprofessional. But, hey, I'm a person. I can laugh at something. I'm funny.

You're off the clock.

You're off the clock and you can be yourself. But off the clock in the sense of you're never on the clock when you're a judge, but you can be a person. Honestly, nobody when I'm on the outside ever thinks I'm a judge, nobody.

No one would guess you to be that.

And I never tell anybody because people will act differently if they know you're a judge. I never

tell anybody I'm a judge at all because I like to see how people treat me, just me, Abbi. They

don't have to know. I'm just a mom. I'm just some lady out in the community. So I always like to

see how people really are. The minute somebody finds out you're a judge, they act differently. So

I never tell anybody and they would never guess it. They just don't guess it. I don't fit the mold.

I understand. It's one of those professions.

Yes. Well, you generally think when you shut your eyes, an older, elderly gray-haired man with

some glasses, very distinguished, talks slow, white. You have a certain idea through the movies

and characters of what they look like.

I think about Ruth Bader Ginsburg when you said that.

She said that too?

Well, no. She came out and she made some political statements during the past year, and

she's like, "Well, I shouldn't have said that." It's that kind of self-censoring in the public world. At the same time, I have a T-shirt with her image on it. How many Supreme Court judges have their...? Have you seen the notorious RBG shirts?

Oh, I hadn't seen that, no. That's funny.

My daughter gave a baby one to all of her friends.

Oh, that's funny. She's certainly a trailblazer that one.

Oh, yes.

She's amazing. And she doesn't look the part.

I see that happening locally and you and Joanna and other people are such role models for that. It will be interesting to see what happens next.

I don't think that our children will have the same idea of what a judge looks like, put it that way.

They're going to have a very different idea of what a judge looks like, which is nice. By the way, of everything, with every career hopefully.

Hopefully, yes.

I think so. I feel like it. But we'll see.

Yes, we will.

Nobody will say to them, "You don't look like a judge; oh, you're too young to be a judge; oh, you're too pretty to be a judge." Although now I don't mind those. The older I get I'm like, oh, keep saying that. I'm good with those now. But when you're younger...I became a judge at thirty-eight. I'd get, "You're too young to be a judge." And I'd be like, "Really? Last I checked

JFK became president at forty-three and nobody said that." It was definitely a woman thing, I thought, definitely a woman thing and how you look.

Oh, yes. And the gender bias you don't feel as much or you still feel a gender bias?

Oh, sure.

Well, maybe that will evaporate more. We'll see.

We can only hope.

We can only hope. We can only keep working. Well, I am going to thank you very much.

Thank you for coming and talking with me.

This was terrific. I'm glad Joanna suggested this. This was perfect, perfect.

[End of recorded interview]