Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

WEDNESDAY, 12 OCTOBER 1949

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

778 Questions. [ASSEMBLY.] Questions.

WEDNESDAY. 12 OCTOBER. 1949. SUSTENANCE PAYMENTS TO EX-SEBVICE SETTLERS. lUr. H. B. TAYLOR (Hamilton) asked the Mr. SPEAKER (Hon. S. J. Brassington, Premier- Fortitude Valley). took the chair at 11 a.m. '' In view of the fact that the t welve months' sustenance period provided in the QUESTIONS. \Var Service Land Settlement Ao-reement Act is proving quite inadequate to ~eet the BURDEKIN DAM-COMMONWEALTH practical requirements of settlers on heavily CoNTRIBUTION. timbe~ed blocks whic~ require lengthy pre­ paratwn before cultivation and which in lUr. NICKLIN (Murrumba-Leader of the any case are subject to seasonal hazard, Opposition) asked the Premier- will he make representations to the Com­ '' In view of the published report tha~ monwealth Government for an extension o:' Jthe Burdekin Dam scheme is being investi­ the twelve months' sustenance period in gated by a Commonwealth committee of those cases where hardship is being experi­ four, and that Commonwealth financial enced under the Act as it now stands f'' . .assistance will depend upon the results of such investigation, on what did he base his Hon. E. M. HANLON (Ithaca) replied- statement last month that he expected the " Various aspects of War Service Land Commonwealth Government to bear at least Settlement, including certain provisions of .:50 per cent. of the cost of the dam~'' the War Service Land Settlement Agree­ ment, which is a joint agreement between .lion. E. M. HANLON (Ithaca) replied- the Commonwealth and State Governments, '' The hon. the Leader of the Opposition have been receiving the attention of the Sec­ ·appears to have just learned that the Com­ retary for Public Lands, who administers monwealt1l Government has appointed a the War Service Land Settlement Agreement Committee to examine the Burdekin Dam Act and also the War Service Land Settle­ project. In this connection, I would refer ment Act in this State. In fact, consul­ the hon. gentleman to the stat ement I made tations have already taken place at the on my return from the Premiers' Con­ Minister's di1·ection, between the L and ference and which appeared in the 'Courier­ Administration Board and the Deputy Mail' of 5 September, 1949. In that state­ Director of War Service Land Settlement ment I said that, following the detailed in Queensland. Further discussions are to submission which I made on behalf of the be held this week with the Commonwealth Queensland Government, the Prime Minister Director from Sydney." expressed very great interest in the Burde­ kin Dam scheme; that a Commonwealth L IMIT TO ADVANCES TO EX-SERVICE committee was investigating the economics SETTLERS. of the scheme; and that an early decision lUr. H. B. TAYLOR (Hamilton) asked the on the amount of assistance which the Seeretary for Public Lands and Irrigation- Commonwealth would contribute could be expected. At the same time, having regard '' 1. Have any representations been made to the nature of the discussions which I to him by the Agricultural Bank or by any had with the Prime Minister, I expressed other institution or person urging a review the opinion that I expected the Federal of the limit of £5,000 advance provided in Government to bear at least 50 per cent. of the War Service Land Settlement Act~ the cost of the proposed Burdekin Dam "2. In any case will he give the House project. I see no reason to alter the an indication of his attitude on this opinion which I expressed on that occa­ question 1' ' sion.'' Hon. T. A. FOLEY (Normanby) replied- GRAZING SELECTIO NS FOR Ex-SERVICE lVIEN. '' 1. No. I would mention for the hon. member's information that Part III. of the Mr. NICKLIN (Murrumba-Leader of the War Service Land Settlement Act of 1946, Opposition) asked the Secretary for Public which relates to financial arrangements, Lands and Irrigation- is administered by the hon. the Treasurer '' 1. As from what date did the pro­ through the Agricultural Bank. vision operate that 50 per cent. of areas "2. So far as I am aware the present opened for grazing selection are reserved limit of £5,000 has, up to the present, exclusively for applicants who are ex-service proved adequate. Should the occasion arise menf and circumstances so warrant, I will take '' 2. How many grazing selections have up the matter with my colleague, the hon. been acquired to date by ex-service men the Treasurer.'' under that provision~'' Mr. HILEY (Logan) asked the Premier- Hon. T. A. FOLEY (Normanby) replied­ " In view of (a) the continuous fall in '' 1. 30 April, 1946. the purchasing value of money, and (b) '' 2. Thirty-f our. Ex-service men have the marked disparity between the costs of also had the right to compete for the blocks preparation for use of one land settlement made available for general competition, and block situated in open plain country and have been successful in drawing some of a second land settlement block in a heavily these biocks. '' timbered area, will he make representations Questions. [12 OCTOBER.] Questions. 779

t o the Commonwealth Government for a GALVANISED 1Ro:-<, DALBY DISTRICT. r c'Yiew of the limit of £5,000 imposed on advances under the v,rar Service Land Mr. RUSSELL (Dalby) asked the Settlement Act ~ " · Secretary for Public Lands and Irrigation- " In view of the fact that War Service Hon. E. ~I. HANLON (Ithaca) replied- land settlers in the Dalby district have at ' 'I would refer the hon. member to the last acquired a considerable amount of :mswer •;hich I have already given in reply expensive agricultural machinery, the bulk to questiOn No. 3 (a)." of which is standing completely un~ro­ ~Ir. RUSSELL (Dalby) asked the tected from the weather, will he make Prunier- special representations to the appropriate '' In view of the provision in the War authority in order to ensure that supplies ·Service Land Settlement Act that improve­ of galvanised iron are made available for ment s of a previous owner operate in effect the protection of such machinery~'' as a deduction from the advance ·of £5,000 made available under the Act and as this Hon. T. A. FOLEY (Normanby) replied- in many cases restricts the amount of the " Representations have been made hy advance available for p urchase of necessary the Department to the Co-ordinator-General plant, will he make representations to the from time to time, but as the hon. member Commonwealth Government for an increase is aware, galvanised iron is in extremely in the maximum advance allowable in any short supply and is not released for roofing such case1'' or building of machinery sheds-houses have priority. Following on these represen­ Hon. E. ~1. HANLON (Ithaca) replied­ tations the Co-ordinator-General has '' I would refer the hon. member to the recommended, and the Government has answer I have already given in reply to approved, that tenders be called for 500 question No. 3 (a)." tons of corrugated galvanised iron from overseas to meet requirements of War Ser­ ALLOWANCES FOR CLEARING AND FENCING TO vice land settlers.'' Ex-SERVICE SETTLERS. Mr. H. B. TAYLOR (Hamilton )asked the LOCAL AUTHORITY RATES OF Ex-SERVICE Treasurer- SETTLERS. '' 1. Is he aware that, at the time War Rervice Land Settlement blocks were open ~Ir. RUSSELL (Dalby) asked the for selection in the Dalby district, the Secretary for Public Lands and Irrigation- Lands Department officials promised the '' Where a War Service land settler enters selectors that a sum would be provided as into occupation during a financial year, is an allowance for clearing and fencing it the policy of his department to require and that should the settler personally carry such settler to pay local-authority rates on out portion or whole of these works, he the block for the whale of such financial would be allowed an appropriate sum for year~'' such work ~ '' :,l, ls he aware that officials of the Hon. T. A. FOLEY (Normanby) replied- Agricultural Bank are refusing to honour '' It is not the function, let alone the the promise made by the officials of the policy, of the Lands Department to deter­ Department of Public Lands and that, in mine what rates or for what periods rates consequence, hardship is arising~'' shall be paid by War Service land settlers, Hon. J. LARCOMBE (Rockhampton) or for that matter by any other settler. replied- This is purely the function of the local '' 1 and 2. I would be pleased if the hon. authority.'' member would give me particulars of any alleged refusals to honour promises made CUSTODY OF CHILDREN APPLICATIONS. and I will investigate them.'' ~Ir. WANSTALL (Toowong) asked the INTEREST-FREE PERIOD, Ex-SERVICE SETTLERS. Attorney-General- '' Will he give consideration to amending Mr. HILEY (Logan) asked the Premier- the Guardianship and Custody of Infants '' In view of the substantial delays in Acts, 1891 to 1928, so as to make the simple securing plant by vVar Service land settlers, procedure of section 6 of those Acts, by with consequent losses of benefit of the which a uother obtains an order for cus­ interest-free period prescribed by section tody of a child, also available to a fat·her 14 of the Act, will he consider an amend­ seeking custody of his child, thereby replac· ment whereby the twelve months interest­ ing the· cumbersome and inappropriate pro­ free period operates from the date upon cedure by writ of habeas corpus which is at which the money was expended rather than present the only remedy open to a father from the less suitable date upon which the in such circumstances~ ' ' lease commenced~'' Hon. E. M. HANLON (Ithaca) replied­ Hon. G. H. DEVRIES (Gregory) replir.d- ,' I would refer the hon. member to the answer which I have already given in reply ''Yes. I will give consideration to this to question No. 3 (a)." matter.'' 780 Questions. [ASSEMBLY.) Personal Flxplanation.

CONSTITUTIONALITY OF PETROL RATIONING. Hon. J. LARCOMBE (Rockhampton) replied- Mr. WAN STALL (Toowong) asked the Secretary for Labour and Industry- '' 1. The Treasury Department does not fix rates ·of premiums. It is being provided " With reference to the statement attri· buted to him as Deputy Premier in 'Courier­ in legislation that the Treasurer shall from Mail' of 10 October, that 'the garage time to time, pay from all such mon~vs as people were responsible for disturbing the are appropri3;ted by P~rliament for th; pur­ pJse all premmms for msurance cover issued satls~actory distribution of petrol which by the Insurance Commissioner. :'lPphed before the High Court's judgment,'' IS he not aware that the High Court decided '' 2 and 3. Legislation providing for the that the Commonwealth Government's action payment of insurance premiums and to cover in rationing petrol had been illegal and subsidies on home builders' denosits is at ·contrary to the Constitution since at least present before the House; when" ~uch legis· 16 November, 1948 ~ lation becomes law provision will be made "Does his statement imply that his for the anticipated expenditure in the •Government hold the view that a citizen who current financial year.'' by constitutional means, restrains the Gov: -ernment 's breaches of the law, is un­ ACCOMMODATION OF FORESTRY WORKERS. worthy~'' Mr. PIE (Windsor) asked the Secretary Hon. V. C. GAIR (South Brisbane) replied- for Public Lands and Irrigation- ''Yes. '' 1. In view of his reply to my question of the 5th instant concerning camping facili­ ''No.'' ties and amenities in Forestry Department FREE INSURANCE, GOVERNMENT HOMES. camps, will he state if it is true that when an A.W.U. organiser visited a number of Mr. DECKER (Sandgate) asked the Forestry camps in company with an officer Secretary for Public Works, Housing and of the Forestry Department on 16 August Local Government- last the A.W.U. officials found disgusting conditions in relation to the disposal of ' '1. How many purchasers in possession nightsoiH of workers' dwellings or workers' homes are on the books of the corporation and ' '2. If such conditions did exist does he ineligible to benefits under the free not consider that any hon. member, when insurance scheme~ such a report comes under his notice con­ '' 2. How many applicants not yet in pos­ cerning the delinquency of any Government session of a worker's dwelling or a worker's department, has a bounden duty to the home and for whom the corporation has public to question the Minister concerned approved or is considering approval of to seek information~' ' advances, have taken out cover with the Hon. T. A. FOLEY (Normanby) replied- Insurance Commissioner and are therefore ineligible to benefit under the free insurance '' 1. It is true that from time to time scheme~ A.W.U. officials and the Forestry Depart· ment Industrial and Accommodation inspec· '' 3. Why is the actuary's report dealing with the free insurance scheme refused to tor ma'ke an inspection of forestry camps, and suggestions for improvement, where members. ~f the Opposition when this impor­ tant subJect forms part of a Bill now before same are desirable are offered and dis· cussed by both parties, and may eventually Parliament~'' lead to a recommendation to either the Hon. W. POWER (Baroona) replied-­ District Forest Officer or Head Office, '' 1. The information will be shown in Forestry Department, for consiaeration. the Commission's Annual Report to Parlia­ '' 2. There is no necessity for the hon. ment. member to butt into the affairs of the ''2. One. A.W.U. That organisation, over the years, '' 3. This is a confidential document, and justly prides itself on its ability to look I have already advised the hon. member after the interests of its members, irrespec­ that this scheme would cost the Government tive of the industry in which they o:tre around £80,000 per year in six to eight engaged. '' years.'' PERSONAL EXPLANATION. 1\lr. DECKER (Sandgate) asked the Treasurer- 1\'Ir. BARNE,S (Bundaberg) (11.12 a.m.) : '' 1. What rate of premium will apply Mr. Speaker, as there is a conspiracy of between the Treasurer and the Insurance silence by the Press against me I object to Commissioner in the home-builders' insur­ a Government department's taking part in that conspiracy-- ance scheme~ '' 2. What amount is provided in the 1\'Ir. SPEAKER: Order! The hon. current 1949-50 Estimates to cover such member must proceed in the recognised form. premiums~ '' 3. What amount has been set aside in Mr. BARNES: I draw your attention, the 1949-50 Estimates to cover subsidies on Mr. Speaker, to "Hansard" No. 7. You are home-builders' deposits~" in charge of the issue of '' Hansard. '' Diseases in Stock (12 OCTOBER.] Acts Amendment Bill. 781

Mr. SPEAKER: Order! Does the hon. This Bill contains only two clauses. The member wish to make a personal explanation. Diseases in Stock Acts Amendment Act of 1944 provided for the making and levying llir. BARNES: You have forced me into of an assessment at a flat rate upon all milk it. I ask the leave of the House to make a supplied for consumption or use within the personal statement. As there is a conspiracy area of the city of Brisbane, and in other of silence against me by the daily Press I areas that might be gazetted for the purpose. object to a Government department's taking Subsequently, this provision was extended to part in that conspiracy. '' Hansard'' ;'ll" o. 7 include cream supplied for consumption or of 20 September purports to report a speech use within such areas. made by me that day. It has failed to do EO and I have had no fewer than four In appreciation of the efforts of certain '' Hansards'' returned to me that were issued producers to reduce the incidence of infection from the Government Printer without my in theh- herds, or to maintain herds free from speech. As custodian of this department I tuberculosis, it is now propo&ed to provide ask you to report to Parliament on that for the varying of the rate of assessment failure. levied within the limits prescribed by the Principal Act, in certain instances, to such llir. Aikens: Do you mean to say that extent as the Minister deems equit-able. In your speech was deliberately excluded~ effect, power is sought to make and levy an assessment on all milk and cream supplied for Mr. BARNES: It looks like it. consumption or use or intended consumption JUr. SPEAKER: Order! I ask the hon. or use within a gazetted area or areas on a member to give me full particulars so that I variable basis in lieu of the existing flat can have an investigation made. rate prescribed, to provide for the payment of a reduced rate of assessment by owners of ADDITIONAL SITTING DAY; EXTEN­ herds- SION OF HOURS OF SITTING. ( a) in which tuberculosis has been elimin­ ated,-and Hon. E. lU. HANLON (Ithaca-Premier): (b) who have regularly contributed to the I move- Compensation Fund without benefiting '' That, during the remainder of this under the compensatory provisions of the Session, unless otherwise ordered- Act. '' 1. The House will meet for the The Diseases in Stock Act, as it stands at despatch of business at 10.30 o'clock a.m. present, gives power for the assessment of on Friday in each week, in addition to levy to pay for compensation and the cost the days already provided by Sessional of testing in particular areas. The levy may Order, and that Government Busine% do be varied in different areas, but there is no take precedence on that da)•. provision for variation of levy as between individuals or groups within an area. The '' 2. The House may, on the days present suggested amendment makes provision allotted for Supply, continue to sit until for relief in the case of a man whose herd 10 o'clock p.m. Each of the periods has been submitted to tests and has been Le tween J.J. o'clock a.m. and 4 o'clock found, or made, free of tuberculosis. It also p.m. and between 4 o'clock p.m. and 10 makes it possible for relief to be given to o'clock p.m. shall be accounted an those owners who have been paying levy since allotted day under the provisions of the inception of the scheme, but who have Standing Order No. 307. All provisions not been able to have their cattle tested owing of Standing Order No. 307 and of to staff shortages. Sessional Order of August 3 last shall, -mutatis -mutandis, continue to apply.'' As the Compensation Fund is in a sound financial position, it is felt that considera­ Motion agreed to. tion should be given to some reduction in levy payments. Full levy will therefore be DISEASES IN STOOK ACTS paid to cover costs of testing and compen­ AMENDMENT BILL. sation, and reduced levy where it is neces­ ~ary to cover only the cost of test. INITIATION IN COMMITTEE. In areas supplying milk to Brisbane where (The Chairman of Committees, Mr. Mann, no testing has been carried out since the inception of the scheme, it is confidently Brisbane, in the chair.) expected that sufficient men will be available Hon. H. H. COLLINS (Cook-Secretary to begin this work in January, 1950. for Agriculture and Stock) (11.22 a.m.): I In the country surrounding Brisbane there move- are many areas where tuberculosis has been '' That it is desirable that a Bill be intro­ more or less eliminated and in these a duced to amend the Diseases in Stock Acts, reduced levy would be sufficient, with the 1915 to 1948, in certain particulam.'' exception of the few herds in which tuber­ culosis still exists, for in most of them it The Bill is a very simple one. would be necessary only to cover the cost of testing, whereas in the latter further compen­ Mr. ,sparkes: They always are. sation for reactors is likely to be necessary. Mr. COLLINS: It is only hon. members There are other areas, e.g. Toowoomba and like the hon. member for Dalby who make Atherton, where tuberculin testing was first them difficult. carried out by the officers of my department 782 Diseases in Stock [ASSEMBLY.] Act" Amendment Bill. in collaboration with the veterinary surgeons have been condemned. I hope that the low of the American Army. This testing has been rates of compensation payable for beasts that continued to a limited extent. It wm be are shown to be diseased will be review~t1. possible to include those herds but at the Today, especially, the cost of replacment is same time it will be necessary to extend the so high that some justification exists for testing to take in other areas and herds, increasing the amount payable to those who including those from which milk is suppli~d lose cattle owing to the results of the T.B. to the city of Toowoomba. Here agam 1t test. will be possible to arrange a reduced levy for That is all I have to say at this moment. the herds that have been kept tubercle-free I will leave further comment until I read the by regular testing. Minister's speech. Assessments on milk now applicable are a farthing per gallon of milk supplied for con­ Mr. ~IARRIOTT (Bulimba) (11.31 a.m.) : sumption or use in the gazetted areas, viz:- I regret that the Minister was not able to speak loudly enough this morning to enable (a) The city of Brisbane, 1-1-45. me to hear what he said. It may be that (b) The South Coast Area, 8-7-46, com­ he is suffering from laryngitis and if that prising the area of the town of Southport, is so I sympathise with him. There was no the town of Coolangatta, and that portion ta.lking going on in this corner, but I had of the area of the N erang Shire which is to strain my ears in an endeavour to hear east of the South Coast railway line. what the Minister was saying. However, like (c) The South Coast Area, 14-6-48, com­ ihe hon. member for Sandgate, I gathered prising the area of the city of Ipswich, that one of the principles of the proposed the shires of Beaudesert, Beenleigh, Bill is to reduce where possible the levy pay­ Boonah, Cleveland, Coomera, Laidley, able by producers to meet the cost of testing Moreton, Normanby, Pine, Rosewood, Tam­ cattle for bovine tuberculosis. borine, Tingalpa and Waterford. The Bill really touches the health of the So, Mr. Mann, the principle of the Bill is people, inasmuch as it deals with the testing simply one to give relief to those persons of our her11s for T.B. and the culling from who have cleaned up their herds, either in them of diseased cattle, and I wish to know certain areas in the Brisbane milk district more about it. I hope at the second reading or other areas such as the Darling Downs; to hear what it is all about, but just now and to vary the levy on those who have been I wish to give the Minister a hint of my paying it since the inception of the scheme views on some angles on this question. but, owing to the shortage of veterinary surgeons for the purposes of testing the stock, \Ve have heard in this Chamber statements have not been able to have their herds tested. and questions about the disposal of con­ It is felt that some have paid sufficient for deumcd T.B. cattle. I asked a question of the compensation that they are likely to t.he Minister, but I think the hon. gentleman's receive or sufficient to meet the charge t~1at answer was rather directed to combating a is likely to fall on the fund. suggestion that I had complained that when The only principle in the Bill is one to v:uy diseased or condemned cattle were being the areas in order to give relief where the destl·oyed at the Rrisbane abattoir the Minister thinks it is required. machine used for chopping these carcasses to pieces caused the splash of the juices-- ~fr. NICKLIN (Murrumba-Leader of the Opposition) (11.28 a.m.): I do not intend JUr. Collins: This is outside the scope of to speak at this stage of this Bill because the Bill. This Bill does not deal with the I do not understand what it is all about. I abattoir. merely rise to say that I wish that in future llir. ~IARRIOTT: If it is outside the every Minister who is introducing a Bill scope of the Bill, then let the Bill be enlarged would raise his voice sufficiently to let us hear to deal with this point. Answers given to what is in the Bill. Unfortunately we could questions dealing with diseased stock and not hear anything about it, so I must reserve particularly T .B. stock are not strictly my comments till I see the Bill and read in truthful. '' Hansard' ' what the Minister said. Mr. COLLINS: I rise to a point of order. ~Ir. DECKER (Sandgate) (11.34 a.m.): I am in the same position as the Leader of I must object to the accusation that has been the Opposition. levelled at me that my answers are untrue. Any answers that I have given are strictly Mr. Collins: Why did you not stop talk- truthful. I can assure the Committee of this ing~ You would have heard it then. anc1 I should like the hon. member to accept (Opposition interjections.) my assurance. I think what he has said is an insult. Mr. DECKER: From the few scraps I heard, I believe the object of the Bill is to The CHAIRMAN: Order! I hope the reduce the levies payable on the herds of hon. member for Bulimba will accept the contributors who have not had the services assurance of the Minister on that matter. of the department in the elimination of T.B. I am disappointed that we are not in this llir. l\IARRIOTT: I will accept the Min­ Bill considering also the angle of compensa­ ister's assurence that he was acting in all tion. The Compensation Fund is growing, good faith when giving those answers here, principally because of excessive levies and tno but I want to point out that the answers little compeRsation to people whose stock were evasive. Diseases in Stock [12 OcTOBER.] Acts Amendment Bill. 783

The CHAIRMAN: Order! I am sure I am only a layman, but I have long the hon. member will accept the assurance of experience of the handling of stock and I am the Minister unconditionally. of the opinion that; this can be done. Over the years at our own bacon factory the num­ Mr. 1\'IARRIOTT: Very well, i will get to the point later in another way. Of course, ber of pigs condemned for T.B. has been reduced from something very close to 3 per eonilemned cattle are invariably suffering cent-.-I think it was perhaps 2.78 per cent.­ from T.B., and a question was asked, I think by the hon. member for Windsor, whether to about .58 per cent. last year and, I think, any part of the carcasses came back for .47 per cent. the year before. Through the human consumption. He was assured that efforts of the department and the operations of its veterinary officers, as well as the vigil­ no part of the condemned cattle came into human consumption. ance of the growers who have pigs condemned, we have been able to reduce condemnations t-o The CHAIR~IAN: Order! I do not that extent. If we could extend the testing think the Bill deals with that matter at all. of stock and relieve the growers of the I think it deals with the relief from levies. charges now being made for the testing we should be doing an excellent thing. Mr. MARRIOTT: If the proposed Bill does not deal with it, then we had better ~Ir. Collins: Relieve him entirely? make it deal with it. We should hear what the Minister has to say in reply to my state­ lUr. HEADING: Yes. ment. Cat'fle that are condemned, when Mr. Collins: And do a way with compen­ slaughtered at the Brisbane abattoir, are put sation W through the digester, !ls the Minister stated, but all cattle suffenng from T.B., when ~fr. HEADING: The Minister has come slaughtered there, are not condemned. The right in and I want to tell him that already diseased part is condemned and taken out, we pay £5,000 a year in what is known as the but the rest goes into human consumption. I bull tax, which is supposed to be used towards challenge the Minister to give that a fiat paying for the cost of running the veterinary denial and to get it from his officers. I say his services of the department. That is a big officers are not doing their duty to the public. effort by the dairying industry, because this When T.B. cattle are eliminated from dairy is really a tax on the dairying industry. We herds, the reactors are slaughtered at Goodna als~ contribute towards the Buffalo Fly Fund and the carcasses are carted through the city and the Diseases in Stock Fund, and probably and destroyed through the· digesters at the if we look about we shall find we are paying abat·toir, that being the only treatment works into other funds as well. I do know that we at Cannon Hill. I am not objecting to that, are paying 3d. for every pig, 3d. for but I am objecting to the lack of care dis­ every calf and 6d. for every head of cattle played in the disposal of those carcasses. At inspected at our works, so that; we are paying the same time I persist in saying-and my a fair amount of money towards the insp.:ction information is reliable-that parts of the c.f stock and the Government's effort to beasts slaughtered at the abattoir that are eliminate disease. I suggest to the Minister found to be diseased are condemned that he be a little more generous and adopt but the rest of the beast from which a broad attitude, not only in the interests-- the diseased parts came is sent back through ~Ir. Collins: He oozes generosity. the trade, through the butcher shops, to the peoplEi of Brisbane. If the Minister will have Mr. HEADING: I did not catch that an investigation made into the circumstances remark, but I Si1Y it would be in the interests down there possibly he will be able to deal of the primary producer and of everybody with some of his inspectors who mislead· him else living in Queensland. A broad national and mislead the public in general. Yiew should be taken of this matter, and I hope that when the Bill comes before us it lUr. HEADING (Wide Bay) (11.36 a.m.) : will prove to be broader in outlook than we I am very interested in the question of were led to believe this morning and I -trust diseased stock and levies in connection there­ that there will be some reduction of the with. While I did not catch everything the tax levied on primary producers towards the Minister said, I do know that he mentioned elimination of this disease. I repeat that it something about relief from levies, and that would be in the interests not only of the is confirmed by the fact that you, Mr. Mann, primary producers but of all residents have mentioned that the Bill is one to deal in the State who eat meat and drink milk with relief from levies. I£ the Minister is because they would know that their meat and contemplating some relief to the people who milk came from disease-free stock. are contributing to the cost of testing stock in the Brisbane milk area, I hope he will Mr. MciNTYRE (Cunningham) (11.41 extend that relief to the people who wish to a.m.): To the extent that it was possible to clear their herds of T.B. all over the State. hear what the Minister had to say this Recently a tax of 3s. 6d. a head has morning it appears to me that he has included been imposed on the primary producer who in his amending Bill some of the things we desires to have his stock tested in order to advocated very strongly when the previous build up a T .B. free herd. This is a wonder­ Bill was before the House. In other words, ful opportunity for the Minister to extend we advocated relief for those dairymen and this relief to everybody, so that we can associations who have taken steps to clear carry out an effective campaign for the elimi­ up this disease. I refer particularly to the nation of T.B. in cattle in Queensland. That Downs Dairy Association because the Minister is not beyond the bounds of possibility. knows that for years it has collected a levy 784 Disease& in Stock [ASSEMBLY.] Acts Amendment Bill. from its suppliers and compensated those The CHAIRMAN: Order! I ask hon. who have destroyed their beasts that reacted memben> on my right to obey my call to to the test. Because this association has order. bee_n supplying the city area it has been obhged to pay an additional levy, the depart· }Jr. PIE:. Thank you, Mr. Manu, for :uen ta~ . levy, a very unjust and unfair your prote?t10n. It is now very clear to me nnpos1t10n. So far as I can gather, this that accordmg to the hon. member for Bulimba measure is one to relieve those persons who the answers we get to questions direct·ed to the have taken such action as this and to that Secretary for Agriculture and Stock are corn· extent I wish to compliment the Minister on pletely evasive. at last r ealising what is a fair thing to do Mr. COLLINS: I must object to the in this branch of the industry. staten;ent that replies given by me in my lUr. THEODORE (Herbert) (11.43 a.m.) : capamty as Secretary for Agriculture and I do not think hon. members of the Opposi­ Stock are. a complete evasion of questions. I tion are so deaf as they make out, because say pos1bvely that there is no evasion at all. after listening to what they have had to It is the truth, the absolute truth that hon. say this morning I realise that, instead of members get. If the hon. member is sincere knowing nothing about the Bill or catching in his remarks I ask him to point out where only a smattering of what the Minister had the evasion comes in. I ask him to withdraw to sny, they know a great deal about it. that statement. The · Bill shows that the Minister realises The CHAIRliAN: I ask the hon. mem­ that it is ~ecess.ary to make some provision ber for Windsor to accept the explanation of to meet a s1tuatwn that has arisen since the the Secretary for Agriculture and Stock. intr oduction of the original Act. In the Mr. PIE : I accept it now but I shall early stages of the campaign against bovine prove where he has completely evaded ques­ tuberculosis the department was not able, tions and hon. members may judge whether cwmg to shortage of staff, to give effect to he is the Minister for Evasion or the Minister the provisions of the Act to the extent that for Agriculture and Stock. it was expected, and a tremendous area still remains to which attention must be given. On 22 September last I asked the Secretary It is now realised, seeing that the work can­ for Agriculture and Stock- not be carried out any more quickly, that '' What is the procedure adopted when a the people who have been contributing should beast slaughtered for export is condemned receive some relief and that is all the Bill by inspectors~ Does any of it find its way does. onto the local market~'' The Bill provides that if certain districts The hon. gentleman said in reply- have been cleaned up the levy shall be removed. '' The whole of the carcass and viscera are That is quite right and I cannot see why any condemned, diverted to digesters, and con­ hon. members opposite, even those who repre­ verted into fertiliser by heating under sent the dairymen, should take exception to pressure, which kills all living matter. No it. It is not possible to include a standard part of the beast finds its way onto the levy in the Bill; that must be left to the local market.'' discretion of the Minister. He, acting on the According to the hon. member for Bulimba advice that he receives from time to time, the part of the beast not affected by the will give whatever relief can be afforded. disease finds its way onto the local market. That too is right in principle and I cannot see That is what I complain about. The Minister any other way of meeting the existing situ- has asked me to point out where he has 3,tion. evaded the issue and I am entitled to reply to him. I am sure that when hon. members opposite see the Bill they will find that they have I asked the hon. gentleman this question little room for complaint about it. too- ' 'What are the differences in regard to Mr. PIE (Windsor) (12.46 p.m.): I am inspection of meat for export and local very grateful to the hon. member for Bulimba. consumption~'' The Minister replied to that question and the }Jr. Power: Of course. He should be in your party; that is his place. reply is all right. I asked him also- Mr. PIE: Let the hon. gentleman sit ''Is it a fact that when meat is passed d1wn and mind his own business. It is about for export the kidneys aTe removed, while time that he minded his own business. they are allowed to remain in the carcasses The CHAIRMAN: Order! I ask the used for local consumption~'' hon. member for Windsor to address his The hon. gentleman agreed that that was so. remarks to the Chair. Then I asked- }Jr. Aikens: He gave him a well merited '' Is he aware of any cases being reported rebuke. by butchers to his or Health Department officers of kidneys affected by nephritis }Jr. Power: You mind your own busi­ being contained in carcasses~ ' ' ness, too. The Minister replied- Mr. Aikens: I will tell you the same '' All organs are examined at the thing. abattoirs and condemned when necessary.'' Diseasea in Stock [12 OcTOBER.] Acts Amendment BiU. 7i5

The Minister knows, if he is on his job, that li'Ir. Collins: What is wrong with that? what I said is correct. Butchers have com­ plained to his department or Health Depart­ lUr. PIE: The Minister knows what I ment officers that kidneys have been affect.ed said is correct-that he has had complaints by nephritis. His reply to that question was from his officers that these diseased kidneys a complete evasion. He said- are going to the people. Now we have it definitely from the hon. member for Bulimba '' All organs are examined at the abattoirs and condemned when necessary.'' that T.B.-affected cattle or portions of their carcasses are going to the public. That is lir. Collins: I am stating a fact. a very serious allegation to make. llr. PIE: You are not stating a fact Mr. Aikens: And it has been going on and you know it. We are fed up of hearing for a long time. these things. }fr. PIE: It is time we knew where we llr. COLLINS: I rise to a point of order. stood in this matter, ani! when people intro­ This debate is on the desirableness of intro­ ducing the Bill expect to get away with ducing a Bill to subsidise the destruction of murder doing the job. The Minister is dairy cattle suffering from T.B., but the expected to be quite open when introducing question being raised by the hon. member a Bill. I am delighted to. think that at this is entirely outside the scope of •the Bill. stage we shall have the opportunity of dis­ cussing this important matter, that a Minister The CHAIRJ)IAN: Order! I must uphold the point raised by the Minister. This is ailows these things to continue and portions not a debate on the whole scope of diseases of disease-affected cattle are going to the in stock. The motion covers only a specific buying public. point. As I pointed out in my question, there llr. PIE: We do not know what "in has been complete -evasion. That is not certain particulars'' are. becoming to a Minister. 1'\Ir. HILEY: I rise to a point of order. llr. COLLINS: I rise to a point of order. Am I right in asking whether at this stage Are we to stand this continual abuse that hon. members are entitled to raise not only my answer is a complete evasion~ H is the principles contained in the Bill but not an evasion; it is the truth. I a&k him matters that might well be contained in it. to withdraw that insult. llr. Aikens: Only if you do not embar­ The CHAIRliAN: I ask the hon. member rass the Labour Party. for Windsor to withdraw that remark because The CHAIRMAN: Order! it is objectionable t~ the Minister. The Minister has taken objection, and I ask him lir. HILEY: You will find if you examine to withdraw and accept the Minister's assur­ authorities that there is an abundance of ance that the answers are in accordance with authorities to uphold the point I am raising. the questions asked. Tile CHAIRMAN: Order! The matter llr. PIE: Yes. The hon. member for raised in the debate must be relevant to the Sandgate took the point that he was too dull principles which the Minister has stated, are to see the point. What do you want me to contained in the Bill. withdraw~ llr. HILEY: The Bill purports to deal with diseases in stock. The CHAIRMAN: I ask the hon. member to accept the assurance of the Secretary for Tile CHAIR])!AN: The debate must be Agriculture and Stock and to withdraw the confined to the subject matter of the motion. ii1sinuation that his answers are evasive.

}fr. PIE: This question of diseases in Mr. PIE: As far as I am concerned, I stock is of such vital importance to the do not want to be put out again as I was people that I have no alternative but to move last week. I ~uppose I have to withdraw it. the following amendment:- What have I to do-to apologise' ''Add to the question the 'words- ' And for other purposes.' '' The CHAIRMAN: Withdraw. I want to discuss the most important issue Mr. PIE: I withdraw. I ask every hon. that has been raised in this Committee. It member to judge me and to read the ques­ is about time we had a show-clown on this tion that I asked the Minieter on 22 Sep­ matter because the Minister, as I have proved, t.cmbPr, and his evasive reply. has completely evaded my questions. I asked him whether he was aware of any cases :rllr. COLLINS: I still object to his accu­ reported by butchers to his or Health Depart­ sation of an evasive reply. It is insulting and ment officers of kidneys affected by nephritis uutl'ue. being contained in carcasses. I know that r eports have been made to his department and Tile 1CHAIRMAN: Order! The hon. to Health Department officers. His reply to memt er for Windsor having accepted the me was a complete evasion of my question. assurance of the Minister, I do not think it That is a thing I do not like in this Parlia­ is in order to repeat something that he ment. His reply was- withdrew. I ask him not to continue in that '' All organs are examined at the stTain. abattoirs and condemned when necessary.'' llr. Collins interjected. 786 Disease• in Stock [ASSEMBLY.] Acts Amendment Bill.

lllr. PIE: Who do you think you are? lllr. Aikens: Talk about Surry Hills rules; talk about W oolloomooloo rules· this The CHAIR"~IAN: Order! I ask hon m em­ is worse than Spring Hill rules. ' member to address his remarks to the Chair. Question put; and the Committee Mr. PIE: I will not allow the Minister divided:- to a&k me who I am. AYES, 30. The CHAIRMAN: Order! Mr. Brown Mr. Jones Bruce Keyatta lUr. PIE: I will let the Committee judge. Bu r rows L a r combe Cl ark Marsden I will read the whole question that I asked Collins Moo re on 22 September, and the answer. Crowley O'Shea Davi~ Power This is the question- Devries Roberts '' 5. What is the procedure adopted when Donald Smith a beast slaughtered for export is condemned Dunstan 'l'aylor , J . R. Far reil Theodore by inspectors~ Does any of it find its way Foley Turrier onto the local markeU" Gunn Tellers: This was the reply to that section of t.he Hanlon I n<;ram Graham question- · Jesson Moo res ' ' 5. The whole of the carcass and viscer>l are condemned, diverted to digesters, a.'ld NOES, 25. Mr. Barnes Mr. Mcintyre converted into fertiliser by heating under Bjelke-Petersen Morris pressure, which kills all living matter. No Rrand Nicklin part of the beast finds its way onto the Chalk Paterson local market.'' Decker Pie E vans Russell (Opposition interjections.) Head'ng Sparkes Hiley T' aylor, H. B. The CHAIRlliAN: Order! I ask the hon. Low Wanstall Luck ins me mbers on my left to allow the hon. member Macdonald for Windsor to make his speech without M ads en Tellers: interruption. Ma her. Aikens Marriott Kerr Hon. H. H. COLLINS (Cook-Secretary PAIRS. I for Agriculture and Stock) : move- AYES. NoEs. '' That the question be now put.' ' Mr. Duggan Mr. Plunkett (Opposition interjections.) Gair Mii!ler Resolved in the affirmative. The CHAIIDIAN: Order! The amend­ ment has not been stated. The motion before Amendment (Mr. Pie) negatived. the Committee is the original motion. The Minister can move that the question be now The CHAIRMAN: Order! I draw the put, but until the amendment has been stated attention of hon. members to the fact that I cannot accept his motion in regard to it. when the Minister was moving ''That the (Opposition laughter.) question be now put' '-the hon. member for Mundingburra called out in a loud manner, lllr. COLLINS: It does not seem reason­ '' Surry Hills rules! '' able that he can have a discussion outside the scope of the Bill without moving an Mr. Aikens: Woolloomooloo rules. amendment. (Opposition laughter.) The CHAIRJ)IAN: Order! I ask the hon. member to withdraw that remark and apolo­ The CHAIRlliAN: Order! I hope hon. gise to the Chair, because it is a reflection members will maintain some degree of dig· on the Chair. nity and decorum. This is Parliament House; let us treat it as such and stop this hilarity. Mr. AIKENS: It was not a reflection on The hon. member for Windsor has moved as the Chair; it was a reflection on the Minister an amendment to the original motion, that who moved the gag. certain words to be added. After he conclud~s his remarks I will state the amendment, and The CHAIRMAN: Order! I have asked then the amendment can be dealt with. the hon. member to withdraw that remark and apologise to the Chair. lUr. Decker: The Minister wants to move the gag. J)lr. AIKEN1S: Very well, I will state what I said and then withdraw it because The CHAIRMAN: Order! I am not going to withdraw something you lllr. PIE: I will leave it to some of my said I said. I said, ''This is Surry Hills colleagues to follow. rules, or W oolloomooloo rules, worse than Spring Hill rules,'' and I withdraw that Amendment stated. remark and apologise to the Chair.

Hon. H. H. COLLINS (Cook-Secretary Mr. WAN STALL (Toowong) (12.8 p.m.) : for Agriculture and Stock): Mr. Manu, I Speaking now to the motion before the Com­ move- mittee, which is the consideration in Com­ '' That the question be now put.'' mittee of the desirableness of introducing Diseases in Stock [12 OcTOBER.] Acts Amendment Bill. 787

a Bill to amend the Diseases in Stock Acts sheltering in the bolthole he is now sheltering 19J 5 to 1948,'' in_ c~rtain particulars, I pro: in. My object is to drag him out and I now pose, by means Wl_th_m the Standing Orders, move the following amendment:- to prevent the Mm1ster from covering up. ''Add to the question the words- Rather, I propose to adopt means that will ' and to make provision for the effective brmg the Minister out of the bolthole into carrying out of the provisions of the wlnch he has run by moving a further amend­ ment, to delete the words- Act.''' Mr. }'oley: Taking the matter out of the '' Iu certain particulars.' ' hands of the Leader of the Opposition. I propose moving that amendment in order Mr. WANSTALL: No. This is a matter to brmg the spotlight of public attention with which the Opposition are gravely con­ onto the :;tttempts made by this Minister to cerned in the public interest and from a desire prever:t. d1scuss1on on a point on which the to protect the public. The debate has dis­ Oppos1t10u are taking the role of protecting the public. elosed circumstances that the Minister him­ &elf by his actions admits to be so serious that The CHAIRMAN: Order! The hon. mem­ he has made extraordinary and frenzied ber seeks to go ?ack over grou~d already attempts to stifle debate. He even moved covered. I ask h1m to coniine h1s remarks the gag prematurely. It is bad enough to move to the question before the Committee. the gag to stifle discussion when you can do it at the appropriate time, but to do it before lUr. WAN STALL: I am moving an the question is stated reaches the peak. amendment to delete the words, ''In certain particulars.'' The other amendment was to The CHAIR~IAN: That matter has al­ add words. My reason for proposing that ready been decided by the Committee and I those words be deleted-- · ask the hon. member for Toowong not to proceed with it. TI1e CHAIRMAN: Order! I have not heard the amendment. ~Ir. WAN STALL: I have said what I wanted to say. The Minister has denied the Mr•. WAN STALL: I realise you did not ch arge that he made an evasive answer to a hear 1t, because I have not moved it. My question by the hon. member for \Vindsor. I do not propose to make any implicati~n that he colleague1 .the hon. member for Enoggera, is now wntmg out the amendment. The deliberately evaded the question asked but the Minister was so concerned and worried over fact is that the Minister's answer was mis­ the exposure of his activities in this matter leading; whether it was deliberately bO ~hich has been .brought out by the Opposi: or not I leave it to the people and to hon. twn th1s mornmg, that in his frenzied members of the Committee to judge. attempts to get out-- :ur. COLLINS: .I refuse to accept the 'l'he CHAIRMAN: Order! I understand statement made that my answer to a question the hon. member proposes to delete words~ in P arliament was misleadinJ!. Mr. WANSTALL: Yes. Tile CHAIRlUAN: The hon. member for Toowong must accept the assurance of the The CHAIRMAN: Order! The hon. mem­ Minister. ber would. not be in order. We have already discussed and defeated an amendment that ~Ir. WAN STALL: I accept his assur­ proposed to add words to the motion and ance but I am, through you, Mr. Mann, and it is not now competent for the hon. mem­ through this Chamber, asking the people of ber to move for the omission of certain Queensland to form their own judgment as to whether the Minister made an answer that was w~rds in the original question. The only thmg the hon. member can do is discuss the misleading or not misleading. When the question before the Committee. The whole people realise the attempts the Minister has of the words contained in the motion made this morning to stifle discussion I think originally moved must be left intact. their judgment will certainly not be in his favour. I am informed by the hon. member lUr. WANSTALL: The other amendment for Aubigny, who is an expert on the question was to add certain words to it. The only of cattle, t·hat he can produce sheets that show question on which the Committee voted was that portions of beasts have been condemned the question whether those words should be -the forequarter, the hindquarter or the head added. In so voting we have not, by impli­ or something else-and the rest of the beasts ?ation, app!oved of th~ words that are already have been passed out to the public for con­ m the motwn. That lS where I submit, with sumption. respect, that your ruling is not right and ~Ir. Aikens: It ):tas been going on for I do ask you to consider that. years. The CHAIRMAN: Order! The hon. mem­ Mr. WAN STALL: That is the crux of the ber will not be in order in moving the question and it is wrong to ask the public amendment he proposes. to take the risk that that part of the carcass will not itself be diseased. When you get ~Ir. WAN STALL: You are ruling that a large portion of a carcass condemned as I cannot move this amendment. I now thank being disease-ridden, it is wrong to ask the the Leader of the Opposition for making a public to take a risk with the remainder. suggestion that will prevent the Minister from Departmental officers, in order to give effect to 788 Diseases in Stock [ASSEMBLY.] Acts Amendment Bill.

t~e provisions of the Act, are taking a risk mcket is much hotter than that outlined by with the health of the public. We protest the hon. member for Bulimba. Let me show against it. how h?t the racket is. Let us suppose that I am gravely concerned at the attempt made a portion of a beast is diseased such as ~he by the Minister to prevent discussion on this head, the forequarter, or the hind. Those vitally important subject, which from the parts are destroyed but the rest of that public viewpoint is of supreme importance. It diseased beast is made available for local is because the hon. members for Bulimba and consumption, but in no circumstances can it Windsor have disclosed how serious this matter be exported. That means that the Australian is that the Opposition are endeavouring to people are compelled to eat a portion of a give it full and adequate debate this d~seased carcass, w~ereas the regulations pro­ morning. VIde that the remamder of the diseased car­ cass shall not go overseas. In other words, The Minister can if he likes move the under the present system the Australian gag again on my amendment. If he is still people are being compelled to eat meat from frightened to face our criticism and is still carcasses, parts of which have been con­ anxious to conceal from the public what is demned by meat inspectors and they are being actually taking place, he will move the gag compelled to eat also meat that is considered again on my amendment. However, if he is to be unfit for consumption by people in prepared to have a complete and frank debate other parts of the world. That is how rotten on the subject he will refrain from moving and how raw this racket is. the gag. Let us see how he answers tha;t challenge. Let us suppose that the head of the beast is diseased. The rest of the carcass cannot Mr. PATERSON (Bowen) (12.16 p.m.): go overseas because it is considered to be I support the amendment, but I should have unfit for consumption overseas. But the rest preferred an opportunity to speak in support of the carcass does go into local consumption, of the amendment moved by the hon. member and is consumed in ignorance of these facts for Windsor, because it would have given me by the people of Queensland and by people an opportunity to speak on every aspect of who buy their meat from the abattoir. diseases in stock. However, the Minister gagged the debate on that amendment and Mr. MARRIOTT (Bulimba) (12.20 p.m.) : he was supported by a majority. I am now The Minister should realise exactly what is confined to the present amendment, which is going on in this department that he controls. not so effective as the amendment moved by The meat-eating public, particularly of the the hon. member for Windsor. metropolitan area, and for that matter in The question raised today by the hon. mem­ Queensland in general, are not aware of the ber for Bulimba, which gave rise to this class of meat that is put before them. If debate, is one of supreme importance, and it is possible through the medium of this I am surprised that the Minister should move amendment to have the provisions of this Bill the gag in order" to stop· the debate on such broadened in order to protect the people, it an important question. If it is a fact that will be justified. when a beast is condemned for tuberculosis The CHAIRMAN: Order! I have already and only part of it is diseased the rest of it allowed a good deal of latitude in the debate is sold to the public for consumption, it is on this amendment. I listened very atten­ time that hon. members in this Committee tively to the hon. members for Bowen and voiced their protest against such a practice. Mundingburra, and now the hon. member for If the amendment moved by the hon. member Bulimba. The original motion has nothing to for Toowong was ruled out of order, I had do with carcass meat or abattoir meat. This intended to move another amendment. I had is a machinery measure designed to give relief intended moving for the addition of the of payment to certain men in the dairying words- industry. The amendment is one designed for '' And for the purpose of prohibiting the the effective carrying out of the provisions of sale to the public of beef from a carcass the Act. That is not a principle of the motion. any portion of which has been condemned I therefore ask the hon. member to coniine by a Government inspector for tuber­ his remarks to the original question before culosis.'' the Committee. That would positively have prevented the sale Mr. MARRIOTT: With due respect to of such meat. you, Mr. Mann, I will endeavour to deal with I do not need to take up much time in the variation of the levy, which the Minister speaking on this subject now because those indicated is proposed in this Bill, but I and hon. members who have already spoken have others are seeking to have its provisions expressed my opinions. However, as the broadened so that the health of the people matter has been raised, no time should now might be properly protected and they shall be lost in taking prompt action to ensure not have to eat rotten, stinking meat that that no meat sold to the public comes from men refuse to handle but that is eventually any carcass a portion of which has been con­ converted into sausages for the consumption demned by a Government inspector for tuber­ of the people, as was done here recently. culosis. The CHAIR~IAN: Order! I have already ~Ir. AIKENS (Mundingburra) (12.18 pointed out, and the Minister has indicated p.m.): Now that the matter has been raised, too, that the slaughtering of cattle at the I want to say that from information given abattoir is not a principle of this motion. to me by men working in the industry the Mr. Wanstall: It is in my amendment. Supply. [12 OCTOBER.] Supply. 789

The CHAIRJUAN: The amendment does However, to anyone knowing the potenti­ not make provision for it. alities and possibilities of development in the western and northern parts of the State it ~Ir. Wanstall: It could. will be realised what a very poor attempt has Question- That the words proposed to be been made towards this development. In this added (Mr. Wanstall's amendment) be so, respect much of the Budget is just hot air added-put; and the Committee divided- and lightly glosses over the small amount of assistance given to primary production. AYES, 25. The Treasurer should give some credit to Mr. Aikens Mr. Morris Barnes Nicklin the community as a whole for the state of Bjelke-Petersen Paterson well-being existing in this State at the Brand Pie present time. There are many in the corn· Decker Plunkett munity who have worked hard from various Evans Russell Heading Sparkes motives, some patriotic, some maybe selfish, Kerr Taylor, H. B. but their objective was to advance the Low Wanstall interests of the State as well as their own. Luckins Macdonald A tremendous amount of credit is due to the Madsen Tellers: ordinary private individual but this is not Maher Chalk mentioned by the Treasurer in his report. Marrlott Mcintyre The Government, with their absolute NoEs, 31. majority, still seem to be class-conscious. Mr. Brown Mr. Jones The lack of development in the State is due Bruce Keyatta Cl ark Larcombe to either ignorance or dishonesty and this is Collins Marsdel!! shown by the small amount of assistance Crowley Moo re given to primary production. This has been Davie Moo res very lightly glossed over in the Budget, as I Devries O'Shea Dnnald Power have stated. Duggan Smith There has been talk of the development of Duns tan Taylor, J . R. F arrell Theodore the State generally but we are not getting Foley Turner anything like the results that we should be Graham getting and the situation as it exists in the Gunn TelleTs: interior of the State-the drift of population Hanlon Ingram Burrows from those areas in particular-proves thel'e Jesson Roherts is something wrong with Government policy. Today we hear nothing but talk about IJlans PAIRS. but these are all in the blue-print stages. AYES. NOES. Mr. Hlley Mr. Hilton Mr. Brand: No action. Miiller Gair Mr. RUSSELL: No action. Mention was Resolved in the negative. made of the recent idea of building !"oads to In division- the channel country. Previously we had Honourable Members interjecting. heard much of railway development. Com· missions sat, heard evidence, and made recom· The CHAIRMAN: Order! It is impos­ mendations, but nothing has been done. Now sible for the tellers to do their work with all the proposal is put forward to build roads this noise. out there. These, I believe, are totally inadequate. Motion (Mr. Collins) agreed to. Observe the allocation from Loan Fund to Resolution reported. the great mining industry of Queensland; a FIRST READING. mere £27,000 from that fund, having regard to the very great potential of the State, is a Bill presented and, on motion of Mr. very inadequate amount. Collins, read a first time. I got no inspiration whatever from the Budget and today I want to deal with sub­ SUPPLY. jects that would more appropriately come under the heading of Estimates. However, COMMITTEE-FINANOIAL STATEMENT­ as this is possibly the last opportunity I RESUMPTION OF DEBATE. shall have of dealing with them, I shall have (The Chairman of Committees, Mr. Mann, to take this opportunity as I do not want to Brisbane, in the chair.) leave this Assembly without voicing my Debate resumed from 11 October (see page opinion. 777) on Mr. Larcombe's motion- As you know, I have to resign my seat in '' That there be granted to His Majesty the State House in order to contest the Federal for the service of the year 1949-50 a sum election on 10 December, and at this stage I not exceeding £557 to defray the salary of want to register my disapproval of Section 70 the Aide-de-Camp to His Excellency the of. the Commonwealth Electoral Acts, 1918 to Governor.'' 1940, which requires that State members of Parliament resign their State seats 14 days lUr. RU:SSELL (Dalby) (12.31 p .m.) I before nomination to become eligible to con­ read the Budget with a great deal of interest. test a Federal election. That means unneces­ It made very good reading for the Govern­ sary expense to the State, particularly if the ment and their members who know no better State member is not elected to the Federal than to accept this document as gospel. House, because then the State is put to the 790 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply. expense of a sec:>nd election, which could be handy to the Treasurer as his final figures do very easily avoided. I suggest to the Govern­ not appear so terrible when as usual there is ment that they make a protest again&t this over-expenditure in s:>me other department. enactment. On his elevation to the position the Secre­ I now wish to address myself to the Secre­ tary for Public Works, Housing and Local tary for Public Works who started off in his Government, it will be remembered-and I office with great promise but so far ha& not remember it distinctly-criticised his prede· lived up to it. It hn& been stated by him cessor in office very forcibly and gave all that one of the reasoas for not proceeding sorts of assurances that the department would with the urgent building requirements of this be cleaned up. State is the extreme shortage of &teel. 'rhat is generally known to exist, and we know the lUr. POWER: Mr. Dunstan, I rise to a causes of it. The Government, -of course, point of order. I take exception to that cann:>t be responsible for the industrial con­ remark by the hon. member for Dalby, be­ ditions that obtain in New South Wales, but cause I never criticised my predecessor. I ask when the· American overall steel position­ that ho11. member to withdraw the remark, as f or that matter the &teel position all over the it is entirely untrue. I criticised the admin­ world is so satisfactory- it seems to me that istration of the department but I never men­ the Government should have taken steps to tioned my predecessor. obtain more steel from over&eas countries to The TE:iliPORARY CHAIR:iliAN (Mr. carry on the development of this State. Dunstan) : I ask the hon. member to accept The only countries in the world that have the denial of the Minister. recorded a lower steel production than prior to the war are Australia and Germany. I :illr. RUSSELL: I have to accept the cannot help feeling that it is an indictment of Minister's denial but I suggest that he read the administration of this country that we '' Hansard.'' should be grouped with ruined Germany so The TE:iliPORARY CHAIRMAN: Order far as our steel production is concerned. I ask the hon. member to accept the denial- I submit that the Government· should press for a dollar loan in order to get more steel. :illr. RUSSELL: I accepted it. It would be in the interests of Great Britain The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: Order! also if we could do that because we should ... . and vnthdraw the remark. then be adding tremendou&ly to our pro­ ductive potential. :illr. RUSSELL: I thought I had with­ drawn it. However, I accept his denial and Let us see what has happened to American withdraw the statement, but I ask him to steel production while our production has been going back since the war. The production read '' Hansard. '' in 1948 was 88,500,000 tons and in the 12 I can see no evidence of important changes months ended April, 1949, that figure rose in the introduction of personnel or in the t:> 92,000,000 ton&. In the first four months system of administration. It is of little value of this year the -output rose to the rate of offering criticism without substituting some 96,000,000 tons a year. Those figures were ideas calculated to overcome the difficulty you given by the American Iron and Steel Insti­ eriticise. I suggest that the setting up of tute. an advisory council to the Department of Public Works would be worth while, and I Mr. Bruce: What were the Australian further suggest that that council consist of figures for the same period~ an engineer, an architect, a builder, who :ilir. RUSSELL: I only know that the might reasonably be nominated by the Tech­ Australian figures have gone back. I have not nical Trades Association, and there would be got them, but they can be obtained at any need for a business man and a representative time and I &nggest that if the Minister is of the Public Service. However, I will develop interested he should look them up himself. the suggestion as I proceed. Steel production in America and -other parts At present the department is in charge of of the world is now being curtailed, because an Under Secretary who is an accountant and the demand is going off. The steel cannot be who I have no doubt is a very good accoun­ absorbed in America because the dollar situ­ tant but unfortunately he is neither an ation is causing an impasse in world trade. architect nor an engineer. I am not making Might I remind the Committee als9 that the a suggestion that the Under Secretary should dollar shortage is very largely the result of be superseded but it might be possible to split up the various duties, which would the Sociali&t Administration in England~ entail of course the appointment of a decid­ Mr. Power: You remind me of Balfour, ing authority under the Minister. It might be the way you speak. posoibl€> to split up the control with one Under :illr. RUSSELL: What did the Minister Secretary having final authority in matters of say1 difference. That system is common in army administration and could be applied to the :illr. Power: You heard me the first time. Department of Public Works. I cannot but :illr. RUSSELL: The administration of feel that such a department should be in the Department of Public Works is not only charge of either an engineer or an architect. costly but it is not doing t·he job or getting It would seem that the architects the result& it should. Consistent over­ in the department play a very secon­ estimation, as is usually the case, must be very dary part in its administration and that Supply. [12 OCTOBER.] Supply. 791 they are over-ruled by the Under Secre­ The process at present employed in the tary, who apparently views things from an department is causing the rot there, and one accountant's angle. It is commonly believed can gauge it merely by asking anybody and that technical men are not good administrators judging by the results. I am afraid it is but if this is so I fail to see why so many affecting the whole of the service. That is are able to make a success of private prac­ why when the Secretary for Public Works tice. In this department it would seem that first' came to the office he said he was going technicRl employees play a very secondary to clean it up. I for one said at· the time, part in administration and are always sub­ ''Thank God, someone is going to d > some­ ject to the Under Secretary, who is not tech­ thina '' but he soon went back, apparently nically qualified in any of their professions. not game to do anything for fear he might Immediately under the Under-Secretary are become unpopular. the Chief Architect and the Inspecting Archi­ The Commonwealth Department of Public tect, and from the Estimates it can be seen Works is a very useful example for the State that the Chief Architect gets a salary of department to follow, because there they have £1,232 and t·he Inspecting Architect £832. I adopted the practice of going outs~de the say positively that these salaries are not service for experienced men and then work high enough to attract the best professional and efforts, as can be readily seen, have been ability into the service. very much more successful. Mr. Power: We have also a manager of Not onlv is there a moral rot in the Queens­ the C:mstruction Branch who gets over £1,000 land Department of Public Works but it is per annum. very costly to the taxpayer. Most of the work done is wasteful and unnecessary. Mr. RUSSELL: I am trying to make sug­ gestions to improve the department. Any good A tremendous lot could be saved in over­ architect in private practice could get a con­ head by giving district inspectors-this sug­ siderably greater salary than that. The depart­ gestion is one the Minister might listen to, ment is run on traditional lines, that is to say, as it is important-authority to have minor what was laid down in the past is the pattern jobs done. for today, but these methods are to a very large extent outmoded. In 1936, when the Mr. Power: That shows how stupid you Premier, the Hon. E. M. Hanlon, was Secre­ arc, because we give them that authority. tary for Health and Home Affairs, he apparently came to realise that the Depart­ Mr. RUSSELL: I will tell the Minister ment of Public Works was incompetent and what I have found. The Government do not he introduced a policy of going outside the extend that authority sufficiently. At present Department of Public Works to get architects the procedure is something like this: if a for the construction of the more advanced school needs an inexpensive lavatory the · pro­ work. Today about the only things the Depart­ cedure is roughly that the request has to go ment of Public Works is designing are to the Department of Public Instruction. schools and these are hopelessly behind the Then it is referred to the Department of times. I suggest that the Minister in charge Public Works. The latter department then of the department go somewhere else and have sends out its local inspector, but it may be a look at what is happening there. many months before the local inspector is able to make that inspection. When the This department is the death-bed of any inspection is made the report is sent back young and enthusiastic man because its to the Department of Public Works, where policy is bound up with the cast-iron formula the design and plans are drawn. of precedent. Any intelligent young man starting in the department is not used to the Mr. Bruce: Every department except best advantage and does not get adequate the Railway Department is centred on the training. There is no opportunity to develop Department of Public Works. originality, and such men are kept for years on routine work. They are not permitted to Mr. RUSSELL: .I am telling the Minis­ perform the full duty of an· architect. ter how costly this process is and I hope If they design a building they do not f ;llow that he will alter it. the job through to its completion. Someone These plans, having been drawn, go to the else writes the specifications and the man who Department of Public Instruction for designs the job has nothing to do with its approval. Then they go back to the Depart­ execution. Nothing can be more calculated to ment of Public Works, where they may stay kill interest in his work. The enthusiastic for another period of time. This is all clone young man never sees his work, and the only by day labour. When the plans and specifica­ opportunity he has of seeing it is to go out tions go back to the Department of Public and see it on week-ends. .&fter a while he Works the officers of that department make loses that interest and will not bother to do estimates of the material required. even that. I say positively that it is the duty of the That is what happens, and I am sure that Chief Architect to so organise these men as a job costing £100 would by this procedure to stimulate interest in them and to allow have an additional 100 per cent. overhead them to develop some of the work right through added to it. That is, if its right cost was from start to finish. He could also weed out £100 it would probably need another £100 those that are not competent. That would expenditure for this procedure, and it would stimulate a tremendous interest in his staff. take six months at least to get it done. 792 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Questions.

The hon. member for East Toowoomba has Mr. Dunstan, I ask permission of the Com­ just handed me a letter typifying this pro­ mittee to continue my speech tomorrow. cedure. It reads-- The TEliPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr. '' I am pleased to inform you that Dunstan) : Has the hon. member for Dalby approval has now been given to the expen­ the permission of the Committee to continue diture necessary to enable certain works his speech tomorrow~ to be undertaken at the State School, Middle Ridge. Honourable Members: Hear, hear! ''The work will comprise repairs to Progress reported. veranda floor and handrails, and the supply The House adjourned at 1 p.m. of two galvanised iron sawdust boxes and scoops to each of the children's lavatories. '' An inspector was sent out first to report on that r equest. I would suggest that his time would cost more than the job was worth. This delay anery three years.