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because they thought he cared about them on the Republican agenda that has not either and that their future mattered in common. been defeated or passed, and also the unfin- They were Americans first. They were Amer- ished items on my agenda that will create icans first. That was his contract with Amer- more opportunity and more responsibility in ica. Let it be ours. this country. Thank you, and God bless you. Ms. Woodruff. But it’s the Republican agenda. And I think it—isn’t it the case that NOTE: The President spoke at 1:14 p.m. at the throughout American political history, the ‘‘Remembering Franklin D. Roosevelt’’ 50th anni- party that is controlling the agenda is domi- versary commemorative service at the Little White House. In his remarks, he referred to Gov. nating the American political scene? Zell Miller of Georgia; Joe Tanner, commissioner, The President. Well, I don’t necessarily Georgia Department of Natural Resources; agree that it’s the Republican agenda. You Lonice C. Barrett, director, Georgia State Parks know, I brought up welfare reform before and Historic Sites; Anne Roosevelt, grand- they did. I started reducing the deficit long daughter of Franklin D. Roosevelt; and Arthur M. before they did and without any help from Schlesinger, Roosevelt biographer. them. We reduced the size of Government before they did. We reduced the burden of Interview With Wolf Blitzer and Judy regulation before they did. We gave relief Woodruff on CNN to the States from Federal rules before they did. April 13, 1995 This can be an American agenda. And in Ms. Woodruff. Mr. President, thank you addition to that, I have tried to make it abso- for being with us. lutely clear that I believe that we must con- tinue to press ahead nationally with the cause The President’s Role of education and training and that any tax The President. Glad to do it, Judy. relief must be geared to helping middle class Ms. Woodruff. You are now well over 2 people and to helping people educate them- years into your Presidency. The common, in- selves. creasingly common, perception out there is So I just simply disagree that it’s an en- that because of the successes of the center- tirely Republican agenda. It’s an American stage role that Newt Gingrich and the House agenda. And there are a lot of things that Republicans have played, that your Presi- are still unfinished on our agenda, but these dency has been somehow diminished, made things were started—many of the things that less relevant because of all the activity and they talk about that will actually affect real the agenda-setting that they’ve been doing. people in their lives were begun under our The President. Well, they had an exciting administration. 100 days, and they dealt with a lot of issues Ms. Woodruff. But, Mr. President, again, that were in their contract. But let’s look at the perception is Newt Gingrich has been what happens now. The bills all go to the out there on the news every day, the Repub- United States Senate, where they have to licans have been out there with headlines in pass, and then I have to decide whether to the newspapers. How—— sign or veto them. The President. Well, I’m not respon- So now you will see the process unfolding. sible—I can’t control the perception. All I And I will have my opportunity to say where can do is show up for work every day. But I stand on these bills and what I intend to I’ll tell you this: our administration is the first do with the rest of our agenda. I have en- administration in almost 30 years to run an joyed watching this last 100 days, and have operating surplus, that is, without interest on enjoyed giving them the chance to do what the debt. We have reduced the size of Gov- they were elected to do. And also I made ernment. We have done a lot of these things it clear what I would not go along with. that they talk about. But more importantly, Last Friday at the newspaper editors meet- we’ve focused on creating opportunity for the ing, I went through item by item what’s left American people.

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Now, they are capturing the headlines $25,000 a year or less an average of $1,000 now. They had their 100 days. Now the bills a year. We made 90 percent of the small go to the Senate and the moderate Demo- businesses eligible for a tax cut. We estab- crats, the moderate Republicans, and the lished a capital gains tax for investment, long- President will have a huge say on what be- term and new businesses. We just—I just comes law. I will have my say as the bills signed a bill passed by this Congress which are debated in the Senate, and I’ll decide I tried to pass last time which provides a tax whether to sign or veto them. So there will cut for self-employed people for the cost of be more parity here as the American con- their health insurance. I have proposed a stitutional system unfolds. middle class tax cut in connection with con- And there are other items on our agenda tinued deficit reduction and tied to edu- that I want to see dealt with. I want them cation. That is my record. to raise the minimum wage. I want them to I’m not out there raising taxes. I’m trying do something for education in the tax cut. to lower the deficit and lower taxes. That is I want them to deal with health care in a my record. That is my program for this Con- piece-by-piece basis. The American people gress. That is the future. But on principle, thought I bit off too much at one time, so I think a President runs the risk of breeding let’s deal with it on a piece-by-piece basis. cynicism to sign that kind of pledge when I’ve given them several elements that Repub- you have no idea what will come forward. licans in the past have said they have sup- Let me give you an example. I strongly ported. believe that the Congress made a terrible I think the American people want us to mistake. The only tax break they’ve given work together. But meanwhile, look at where anybody new this time is to reject my pro- we are now compared with where we were posal to ask billionaires who gave up their 2 years ago. There are more jobs. There is more trade. There is a smaller Government, American citizenship to get out of American and we are moving in the right direction. taxes on money they made as Americans to That’s all I can do. That’s my agenda. If they pay their fair share. And for reasons I do not are part of that—the American people can understand, the Republican Congress, in later sort out who gets credit for it when the conference, in secret, after being lobbied by elections get underway. a former Republican Congressman and a former Republican Senator, let the billion- Taxes aires off scot-free. Mr. Blitzer. Mr. President, Bob Dole, So if we sign that, am I raising taxes? I who is the Republican front runner right now would sign that in a heartbeat. People ought for the Presidential nomination, has taken — to pay what they owe. They shouldn’t be able accepted the pledge that he rejected in 1988, to give up their citizenship; pay what they no more new taxes. Are you prepared to ac- owe. cept that pledge in New Hampshire as well, Mr. Blitzer. But you would have signed that you will not go forward with any new that into law after they included it in the dif- taxes? ferent package, the billionaires loophole. The President. As a matter of principle, The President. They didn’t include the I think it’s wrong for a President to do that. loophole. They refused to impose a tax. So But look at our record. I told the American what I think they ought to do is close the people exactly what I would do. I said the loophole. What I did was to give the small- first time when I go in I’m going to ask the business people and the farmers and the pro- wealthiest Americans to pay more, not be- fessionals whose families are unfairly denied cause I’m for class warfare but because they a tax deduction for their health care costs can afford to. We’ll cut spending, raise taxes that tax deduction so they could get it by on the wealthiest Americans, and bring the tax day, which is next Monday. I had to do deficit down. We did that. that. But they ought to put that back in. This Now, what else did we do? We cut taxes is an unconscionable thing which has been on 15 million families with incomes of done.

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But would it violate the pledge, or not? I did it. The Congress did not send me any- That’s the problem I have with the question thing they knew I was going to veto. So there you asked. was no need to veto. Mr. Blitzer. Let me ask you one more Secondly, the abuse of the filibuster—and question on taxes. The flat tax: The Repub- I say that advisedly, there has been an abuse licans have now authorized this commission of the filibuster, which means that one more that Jack Kemp will head to see if there’s than 40 Senators can hold up any bill—re- a possibility of going forward with a flat tax, duces the number of bills coming to the a simple flat tax. Is this something that you President’s desk—— think you would support? Ms. Woodruff. On which side are you The President. I’m for tax simplification. talking? Anything we can do to simplify the Tax Code, The President. Well, in the last 2 years consistent with fairness and not exploding the it worked for the Republicans. It may work deficit, we ought to do. The first time I heard for the Democrats this time. But the point about a flat tax I thought it sounded like a is that the sheer number of bills coming to pretty good idea. But if you look at it, every the President are now smaller than they used analysis that I have seen done indicates that to be. Now, if I get the line-item veto—the the flat tax proposals that are out there now line-item veto has passed the Senate; a line- will increase the deficit and increase taxes item veto has passed the House. I worked on all Americans with incomes of under very hard to get it through the Senate and $200,000 a year. So my answer is, I’m going to get the Democrats to go along with it, and to put a pencil to a piece of paper and figure they did. If they’ll reconcile the differences, out how it works. And my suggestion to the you will see a lot of vetoes under the line- American people is that they should put a item veto. pencil to a piece of paper and see how it Ms. Woodruff. Well, again, on the veto works. point, I mean, you were just in Warm Springs We must not explode the deficit. And we yesterday honoring Franklin Delano Roo- must not have a big tax shift from people sevelt. We looked into his record; over 13 making over $200,000 to all people making years of his Presidency he had over 700 ve- under $200,000. That’s not the fair thing to toes. And Arthur Schlesinger, the historian, do. was there at the ceremony. He was telling a reporter—he said, Franklin Roosevelt Use of the Veto loved a fight. And he said, President Clinton Ms. Woodruff. Well, in connection with would prefer to accommodate. Is that an ac- that, Mr. President, you are the first Presi- curate perception? dent in something like I think it’s 140 years The President. No, I like to fight. That’s to go this far in his Presidency without a sin- how I got elected President. That’s how I gle veto. Now, you’ve made some threats and passed an economic program that broke the you specifically made some at the end of last back of deficit spending and bipartisan irre- week. But House Majority Leader Dick sponsibility. The Republicans and the Demo- Armey is out there, is just flatly saying that crats sat up here for 12 years and told the he thinks you’re going to sign any tax cut American people what they wanted to hear. bill, any tax bill that they send you. In other The Republican Presidents blamed the words, they’re not taking you seriously. Democratic Congress. The Democratic Con- The President. He’s wrong. Keep in gress blamed the Republican Presidents. And mind, why didn’t I—I didn’t have to veto they quadrupled the debt of this country anything in the last 2 years because it was when I got here. only the third Congress since World War What I did was to fight my battles in the II—only the third Congress since World War Congress, and by one vote in both Houses II—when a President passed more than 80 won a budget bill that reduced this deficit. percent of its programs in the Congress. I fought for a trade bill that gave us more That’s only happened—President Eisen- trade. I fought to get a crime bill that would hower did it; President Johnson did it; and reduce the threat of violence on our streets.

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I’ve got things done that I wanted to signed. duce the burden of Federal action on State If they send me bad bills, I’ll be happy to and local government, and a bill to provide veto them. I think that the untold story of a tax break to self-employed people for the the last 2 years is how much we got done. health insurance costs they have. Those were I had no occasion to veto a bill. I have no things I ran for President on. How can I veto doubt that I will have occasions to veto bills bills that I support. I support those bills. now. Just because the Republican Congress passed them—I did not run for office to sign President’s Leadership Style a pack of vetoes or to worry about my percep- Ms. Woodruff. But just quickly, Mr. tion. I ran for office to turn this country President, again, maybe we’re talking per- around. This is a time of enormous change ceptions again, but the perception is that you and uncertainty. Anytime a President takes are a President who will bend, who will not on tough battles, gets things done, but tries stick with what you originally said you were to work through things in a spirit of good for. Hence, you’ve got people out there like faith, you have to run the risk of changing Arthur Schlesinger saying he thinks you’re perceptions. an accommodator. I mean—— It happened to Harry Truman. He barely The President. Well, let me ask all those had one in four people for it. And he was— people then, if that’s so true, why did I break until the last year of his campaign in 1948, the back of trickle-down economics? Why he was regularly attacked not for being too did I break the back of 12 years of Demo- decisive, too tough, too straightforward, but cratic and Republican irresponsibility in for being too accommodationist, what did he Washington, to reduce the deficit 3 years in stand for, where was he. These are—it’s just a row for the first time since Mr. Truman part of the times. I can’t worry about the was President? If that’s so true, why were perception. I have to be tough in fighting we able to pass the NAFTA, which was for what’s right for the American people. deader than a doornail when I took office? That’s what I have done. That’s what I will If that’s so true, why did we pass the crime do. I did it by passing bills the last 2 years. bill with the assault weapons ban in it, which I’d like to do it by passing bills now, but that’s had been dead for 6 years? Why did we pass up to the Congress. I told them Friday what the Brady bill, dead for 7 years? Why did I’d sign and what I’d veto. Let’s see what we pass family leave for working families, they do. dead for 6 years? Because we got things done out of conviction and hard work. Welfare Reform Sometimes, it’s more important what you do than what you don’t do. Now, vetoes make Mr. Blitzer. Well, let’s talk welfare re- a big splash. If they’ll just simply send me form, which, of course, is an issue very close some bad bills, I’ll be more than happy to to your heart. You have said you want to end veto them. What we should be doing here welfare as we know it. The House version is focusing on what we did to break gridlock, is apparently unacceptable to you—the Re- make this Government more responsible and publican version passed in the House. get things done. It was tough. It required The President. Do you want to see a veto? hard fights. They were bitter, tough battles If the Senate passes the House bill, I’d be that we won. When you win, you don’t have happy to veto. to veto. I like to win, and we won. And the Mr. Blitzer. Well, the Senate looks like American people are better off. But all this the Republicans are now suggesting they talk is, ‘‘Well, let’s see some vetoes.’’ Send would take out some of the more, what you me a bad bill, I’ll be happy to veto it. would consider, onerous provisions of the I have had three bills since this Congress House bill, but still give the States block started a 100 days ago, three bills. They were grants to reform welfare as the States, the all three bills I campaigned for President on: Governors, want to do it. The Republican a bill to make Congress live under the laws Governors, that is. Is that something you it imposes on the private sector, a bill to re- would accept?

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The President. No, but I think that they cern about the block grants is that it won’t deserve credit for making some progress. You be fair to all the States. know, the Catholic Bishops basically pointed out that the House bill could actually be a Abortion pro-abortion bill, could encourage abortion, Mr. Blitzer. Just wrapping up this seg- it was so hard on children, and it was so weak ment—on abortion, an issue you just on work. Now, the provisions proposed by raised—you have said repeatedly you would these three Republican Governors that the like to see abortion safe, legal, and rare. What Senate is looking at gets out a lot of the stuff have you done to make it rare? that tough on children and unfair to them. The President. One of the things I’ve And that’s good, and they deserve credit for done to make it rare is to push very strongly that. It’s still weak on work. And it’s still un- for more adoptions, and for cross-racial adop- fair to the States that have huge growing pop- tions. One of the things that the Republicans ulations of young children. and I agree on, although we may have some So this block grant proposal as it is written minor differences about how to do it, is that would put unbearable burdens on States, not we should not hang adoptions up for years necessarily—this is not a partisan issue, but and years and years when there are cross- the block grant proposal as written I think racial adoptions involved. If parents of one would be unfair to States like Texas and Flor- race want to adopt a child of another, they ida, for example, and maybe very beneficial shouldn’t be delayed and hung up by a lot to States with static or declining welfare rolls. of bureaucratic redtape. I think that is very important. Mr. Blitzer. Just to nail it down—so this The other thing I think we have to do is Republican version in the Senate that is now to make it clear to people that if they have being discussed, you would veto that? children they will be able to raise them in The President. All we know about it is dignity. I have tried to improve the lives of what we see in the papers. I believe that it women and little children and support peo- is an improvement over the House bill. But ple who do bring children into this world, it’s got a long way to go. We need to be— to say, ‘‘Okay, if you’ve got a child, even if what the American people want is to see peo- you bore the child out of wedlock, you ought ple who are on welfare going to work and to have access to education and child care succeeding as workers and parents. and medical care. And then you ought to get Now, what they’ve done that’s good is off welfare and go to work.’’ I think if people they’ve adopted all my tough child support see that they can bear children and still suc- enforcement provisions. And I applauded the ceed in life, and if they understand that if House for doing it. Line for line, they did they want to give the children up for adop- it. I appreciate that, and it’s good. The Senate tion that they can do that and know it would now says, well, we’re not going to be tough be done in a ready and proper way, I think on children, we’re not going to be—in effect, those two things can really work to reduce have a pro-abortion policy or at least a brutal- abortions. to-children policy. That’s good. They deserve The other thing I think we have to do to credit. reduce abortion is to keep campaigning Now let’s work on the work, and let’s don’t against teen pregnancy. And we have worked be fairer to the States that have bigger prob- very aggressively in this administration on lems than some other States. The States— anti-teen pregnancy campaigns. So those are this proposal—I am for much, much, much three things we’ve done to try to make abor- more flexibility to the States. Keep in mind, tion more rare. it was our administration—not the two pre- vious administrations but ours—that has Russian Nuclear Cooperation Withdrawn given half the States the freedom to get out Ms. Woodruff. Mr. President, let’s move from under the Federal rules to do what they to a somewhat different area, international want on welfare. But we have to do it in a relations. You’re going to Russia in about a way that is fair to all the States. So my con- month, a little less than a month from now,

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to celebrate V-E Day, to meet with Boris I think I’m doing the right thing to go. I will Yeltsin. You are going to spite the fact that continue to work on the Iranian thing, but the Russians have refused, so far, U.S. pleas I do not believe that disengaging with Russia that they not sell nuclear technology to Iran. and refusing to go and participate in this And the question is, I mean, even setting ceremony is the right way to do it. Chechnya aside and what they’ve done there, Ms. Woodruff. Well, I understand what given the fact that this whole question of nu- you’re saying about history and about their clear proliferation poses such a dangerous sacrifice. And I think most Americans, no specter—creates such a dangerous specter doubt, appreciate that point. But given the for the entire world, will the Russians pay fact that the greatest danger out there facing no price for this policy of selling this tech- this entire globe is nuclear proliferation, nology to Iran? where is the United States prepared to draw The President. Well, first of all, let me the line? explain why I’m going to Russia, and let’s The President. But what interest would look at this issue in the larger context. We it serve—if they can legally do this under are still negotiating with the Russians on this international law, what interest would it serve issue. We do not want them to sell this tech- for me to stay home when by going there nology to Iran. It is true what the Russians and continuing to engage the Russians we say, that it’s light-water technology, it’s the might make progress. sort of thing North Korea is going to get as Let me remind you of what has happened a part of denuclearizing North Korea. We in Russia since I’ve been President. They don’t want Iran to have anything—any- have withdrawn all of their troops from the thing—that could enable it to move toward Baltics, for the first time since before World developing nuclear capacity, so that we do War II. We have completed START I. They not support this. And we are continuing to are rapidly dismantling nuclear weapons. We work to try to dissuade them. have succeeded in getting all of the other But look at our relationships with Russia former Soviet states to be nonnuclear states. in the broader context. First of all, I think So in the context of nonproliferation, we have it very important that the rest of the world made huge, huge progress in the last 2 years. continue to support democracy, economic re- form, and nonaggression in Russia. If you This is an area of disagreement. I intend look at where we are now, compared to to take it up with them. But I think engaging where we were 2 years ago, Russian reform, them, going at them, going right at them, economically, is still in place, the Democratic and working through this is the way to do system is still in place in Russia, the elections it. system and the constitutional system is still Ms. Woodruff. Will they ultimately pay functioning. They have come a long way. a price one way or another? They made this agreement with Iran be- The President. Well, let’s see what they fore I became President. The question is, are do. Obviously, if they don’t—obviously, if they going to follow through on it, or back they do this, it will affect our relationships off of it? But you have to see it in the larger with them, just as all the positive things context. they’ve done have affected our relationships I am going, I might add, along with every with them. The United States has been a very other leader of a World War II country, to strong supporter of Russian reform. We have Russia, because the Russians lost 20 million done everything we could to help them suc- people in World War II, far more than any ceed, and we have gotten a lot for that. We other country did. Their price was great. And have gotten a lot for that. They are rapidly part of their alienation from the rest of the destroying their own nuclear missiles. We are world, and the West in particular, has been moving in the right direction. rooted in their collective consciousness that This is one area of disagreement, but it we never understood why they were more, pales in comparison to all the progress we’ve we thought, paranoid, at least more isolated made to lower the nuclear threat in the world than the rest of us because of that cost. So and our other agreements with Russia.

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Iran the border with any intent to do anything Mr. Blitzer. Mr. President, you’ve had wrong. The United Nations has now taken this dual containment policy towards Iran responsibility for the mistake they made in and Iraq. Yet, U.S. oil companies still are the letting them through the checkpoint. They biggest buyers of Iranian oil, and they sell should simply be released. It is the decent it around the world except in the United thing to do. But the United States cannot States. There is some talk that you’re think- make any concessions on the sanctions issue ing about strengthening the U.S. sanctions to get their release. That would be wrong. against Iran. Can you tell us where you stand Cuba on that? The President. We’re looking at what all Mr. Blitzer. One final loose end on an of our options are. I think we need to be international issue, Cuba: Jesse Helms has as firm as we can be. Our administration a resolution, as you know, pending that stepped in when Conoco signed that agree- would prevent the U.S. from dealing with ment, and they backed off of it. That was companies in Europe or Canada or Japan a good thing. And we are looking at what that deal with Cuba, and this has caused an else we can do. uproar around the world. You haven’t taken Mr. Blitzer. Well, you could pass pro- a position on this Helms amendment yet. Are posed legislation or just take Executive or- you prepared to say you support it or oppose ders to force U.S. companies to no longer it? purchase Iranian oil. The President. I support the Cuban De- The President. We are looking at all of mocracy Act, which was passed in 1992 and our options, and I’m going to get a report which we have implemented faithfully. The pretty soon on what I can do by Executive Cuban Democracy Act gives us the leeway order, what I might ask the Congress to do. to turn up both the heat on the Cuban Gov- The Congress is also looking at this. ernment and to make certain changes in pol- Every country that we speak with, every icy in return for changes that they make. It world leader I talk to in the region and be- is a carefully calibrated, disciplined, progres- yond still believes that Iran is the biggest sive approach. I believe it will work. I do cause of instability and the biggest potential not—I don’t know why we need any more threat to the future. And they have chosen legal authority than we already have. not to change their conduct, so we are forced I would be, obviously, as I have been in to continue to look at our options. the past, interested in knowing the views of Senator Graham on this because I trust his Americans in Iraq judgment. He’s been an expert in this area Mr. Blitzer. How far are you willing to and he’s worked hard, and was a sponsor, go in terms of Iraq in winning the release along with Mr. Torricelli, of the last Cuban of the two American prisoners who are being Democracy Act. But we have been very firm. held in Baghdad? Our administration’s position has been much The President. I’m not prepared to make tougher than the previous administrations, any concessions on the United Nations reso- but we’ve also operated under the Cuban lutions. The resolutions speak for themselves. Democracy Act to restore, for example, di- Mr. Ekeus just issued his report in which rect telephone communications, which has he raised questions about what they might been a good thing for the Cubans and a good be doing on biological warfare. We saw in thing for the United States. the horrible incident in the Japanese subway So I like the way the act is now. I think the potential of biological and chemical we should continue to operate under it. I weapons in small vials, small amounts. So we know of no reason why we need further ac- have to separate the United Nations resolu- tion. tions and the sanctions against Iraq from this Ms. Woodruff. And just in connection incident. I want those two Americans home, with the Cuba question, Mr. President, your the government should give them clemency. Secretary of State and National Security Ad- They did not—clearly, they did not go across viser have been talking a little more lately

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about some diplomatic opening, further dip- in the world. It is lower than Germany’s. It lomatic opening to Cuba. Is there something is lower than any other European country. you’re considering of that nature? What is going on here? If they’re saying The President. There is nothing specific. something about the deficit, it’s not because What I want us to emphasize is the Cuban of the way we’ve managed the last 2 years, Democracy Act was a very carefully drawn it’s because of the massive accumulated debt bill of balance of sticks and carrots, not car- of the previous 12 years which requires a lot rots and sticks, sticks and carrots. It tough- of borrowing to finance. ened the sanctions on the front end but pro- So what does that mean? That means we vided for the United States to take appro- have to do more deficit reduction. What does priate, carefully calibrated actions in return that mean? It means it’s unwise to be out for things that might be done within Cuba here talking about tax cuts until you explain to open the country politically and economi- how you’re going to reduce the deficit. Defi- cally. cit reduction and appropriate targeted, mod- But I have been given no specific rec- est tax cuts, that’s my policy. ommendations by them, and I certainly have The world markets may not know it yet, not approved any. but that’s going to be the policy of the United States. The United States will continue to re- Decline of the Dollar duce the deficit. We’ll reduce it more. We Ms. Woodruff. International economic will have a responsible policy, and the dollar question: It’s 50 years after World War II. will respond accordingly. The German mark and the Japanese yen are doing a whole lot better, a whole lot better, Jonathan Pollard Spy Exchange than the American dollar out there. And as Mr. Blitzer. Mr. President, I want to talk you know, critics are pointing to your admin- U.S. politics in a second, but one loose end. istration, to U.S. policy, and saying the dollar There’s story out today that you’re thinking is falling because the policies of this adminis- about a swap that would free Jonathan Pol- tration and this government have contrib- lard, the U.S. naval intelligence analyst who uted, have been wrong. What’s going on? was convicted of espionage for Israel, as part The President. The economic condition of a three-way deal with Israel, Russia, and of the American people is a whole lot better the U.S. First of all, is that true? And second than the economy of Japan and Germany of all, do you think that—he’s now served right now, although the German economy is 10 years—is that long enough for the crime coming back. We have lower unemployment; that he committed? we’ve produced more jobs; we have low infla- The President. No one has said anything tion. to me about that. Nothing. Now, when—I would remind you that Mr. Blitzer. Not a swap either? when I was in charge of economic policy and The President. Nothing. the Congress was supporting it—I’m still in Mr. Blitzer. Okay. charge of economic policy; the question is, The President. And on Pollard, I’m going what’s the Congress going to do—we had to handle his case the way I handle anybody lower deficits, low inflation, high growth, and else’s: I get recommendations from people a dollar that was stronger. I have no idea who apply for clemency from the Justice De- what is happening in the markets with the partment. I review them, and I make a judg- dollar, and neither does anybody else en- ment on them. tirely. You ask them, a lot of people who make a living doing this, think it’s maybe 1996 Election speculation. But I tell you this: We do have Mr. Blitzer. Let’s talk U.S. politics for a to reduce the deficit further. few moments. Bob Dole is the front runner, But I would just like to point out that if but there are a lot of other Republicans out you look at the total Government deficit in there. How do you assess the political scene the United States on an annual basis today, right now in terms of the challenges not only it is tied with Japan for the lowest deficit from the Republican side, but potentially a

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Democratic challenger like former Governor doing this. Sometimes you talk to people who Casey of Pennsylvania trying to come into work around here about this stuff more than this race as well? I do. I try to minimize that kind of specula- The President. Well, on the Republican tion. We have no control over that. side, I don’t know how to assess it because After the November election, when the it depends, obviously, as any primary battle people decided to give the Republicans con- does, on how they distinguish themselves trol of Congress, I made a decision which from each other, and who votes in the pri- I am adhering to, which is that I would do mary and how the various States view it. And the very best I could to do exactly what I I simply don’t know enough about their pri- thought was right, that I would not worry mary electorate to do that. I’m going to let about the monthly fluctuation in the polls, them decide who they want to put up, and that if anything, worry about it even less than they’ll do that in due course. I had in the two previous years when I had Bob Casey is a man I served with as Gov- taken a lot of unpopular positions. And I’m ernor. I have a high regard for him, and I going to do more of what I did down in Dal- have a lot of respect for him. And I kept las on Friday where I just took an outline in pretty close touch with him and his family of the positions that I feel, and I just get when he went through his medical problems. up there and say what I think, and let the And I think he’s a remarkable, resilient per- American people digest it and deal with it son. He is a committed anti-abortion, anti- the best way they can. choice person who has served with distinc- Ms. Woodruff. So you mean while there’s tion in government. We agree on many, all this wild political speculation out there many issues. I believe you can be pro-choice about what’s going to go on, you’re able to and anti-abortion. He doesn’t believe that. ignore that? Is that what you are saying? And he believes that the Democratic Party The President. I don’t think about it has been badly hurt by the abortion issue much. Of course, I don’t ignore it. But I don’t and that it’s more important than any other spend a lot of time worrying about it. The issue. And he believes that with a real depth one thing I think every President owes the of conviction. And he will have to do what- American people is to focus on what the ever he thinks is right. And he will do that. American people need, to do what he thinks I am sure he will do whatever he thinks is is right and best, and to realize that you waste right. a huge amount of energy focusing on things I think when you look at the alternatives over which you have no control. I have no between the Democrats and the Republicans control over who seeks the Republican nomi- and the fact that the Republicans seem to nation, whether anybody seeks the Demo- like to—it’s hard to know where they really cratic nomination, and I certainly have no stand on that issue, they talk one way and control over whether there’s a third-party act another, I would hope that he would candidate. That is irrelevant. So I can’t worry think about that and think about what would about it. It’s a waste of time. happen in the event of a campaign. But that’s his decision and whatever he does, I will re- The South spect. Ms. Woodruff. Well, let me ask you about Mr. Blitzer. Still on politics, Mr. Presi- something over which you may have some dent, some of your political aides talk about control, and that is these defections of you as the ‘‘43 percent President,’’ referring Democrats to the Republican Party. We had to the percentage of the vote you got in ’92. Congressman Deal, Senator Shelby, Senator Is it the operating assumption around here Campbell. Just looking at the South alone, and with you that there will be a third can- I mean, the trend is all in the Republican didate in the general election, that there will direction. Are we now in a situation where be a Democrat—you—a Republican and you’ve got an all solid Republican South someone else? where we used to have a solid Democratic The President. I have no earthly idea. South, and is there anything you can do to And you know—let me just say how I am stop that?

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The President. Well, the solid Demo- what has been the most depressing moment cratic South in Presidential elections has for you since becoming President? been breaking up since 1948. Harry Truman The President. I’ve had a lot of exhilarat- stood up for civil rights and he lost four ing moments, but I think that in terms of States to Strom Thurmond. what’s happening for Americans, I was ex- Ms. Woodruff. So you are saying there hilarated when the economic plan passed by is nothing you can do? only a vote because I knew it was the begin- The President. Well, no, I think there is. ning of turning the country around. And I I think what we have to do—first of all, we knew that if we got the deficit down, if we have to get down there and make our case gave lower income working people a break, at election time. You know, when I spoke if we made college loans more affordable, to the Florida Legislature, for example, I no- if we expanded Head Start—that is, if we ticed after it was over a lot of the Florida offered more opportunity and demanded Democrats came up to me and said there more responsibility; all that was in that eco- were Florida Republicans who said they nomic plan—that we could get this economy agreed with what I said. They did not know going again, and we could offer some oppor- what the position of the administration was, tunity. So that was a great moment for me. and they felt reassured by it. On a purely personal basis, I think the pas- The South cares about education. The sage of the national service bill and seeing South cares about welfare reform. The South all those young people come up here and cares about a strong stance against crime. seeing them go out across our country and The South has done very, very well economi- sort of cut through all the rhetoric and bu- cally under our policies, changing trickle- reaucracy and everything and just start down economics, not going back to tax and changing America from the grassroots up and spend but working on the invest and growth earning their way into college has been the strategy that I ran for President on. most personally rewarding thing for me. Ms. Woodruff. But they are voting for Re- Mr. Blitzer. And depressing? publicans? The President. The most depressing mo- The President. They are, but I think they ment, I think, for me was when our young will be fair-minded when there’s an honest men were killed in Somalia, because they debate. I don’t think that the—in many cases went there to save the lives of the Somali they’ve gotten the other side of the coin. If people. They did a magnificent job, and it you look at Florida, for example, or in Geor- was a very sad thing. And I think we learned gia where you have two seasoned Democratic some valuable lessons from it, and the lesson Governors that survived the biggest Repub- is not to withdraw from the world, not to lican tidal wave in decades, they did it be- walk away. What we did in Rwanda, what cause they were strong and tough, and they we did in Haiti especially, shows that there stood up for what they believed in, and they is a good way and a right way to do these did not apologize or pussyfoot around. They things, but that was a very—personally, it was just said, here’s what I did; here’s why I did the most personally depressing moment to it; and here’s where I stand. And not only me. that, they talked about what they were going to do to in the future. And they survived the Entertainment Industry Values tidal wave. I think that the Democrats will do well by following the examples of Lawton Ms. Woodruff. Mr. President, Bob Dole Chiles and Zell Miller. said this week, 2 days ago, that the entertain- ment industry in this country, television, movies, advertising, is poisoning the minds The Presidency of American young people. He said Holly- Mr. Blitzer. Mr. President, if you step wood ought to be shamed into improving all back a little bit and look over the span of of these things. You’ve gotten a lot of money your Presidency, what has been the most ex- from Hollywood interests and political con- hilarating moment in your Presidency and tributions. Do you think Hollywood—should

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you be holding Hollywood more accountable The following list includes the President’s public for these sorts of things? schedule and other items of general interest an- The President. Well, I would remind you nounced by the Office of the Press Secretary and that long before Senator Dole said anything not included elsewhere in this issue. about it, I actually went to Hollywood and challenged them to deglorify violence, to April 8 deglorify sexual misconduct, to deglorify In the morning, the President traveled to drug use, to deglorify destructive behaviors, Los Angeles, CA, from Sacramento, CA. and to try to help to build this country up. In the evening, the President attended a I also said the same thing in the State of Democratic National Committee fundraiser the Union Address. And if you’ll remember, at a private residence. it got as strong a response as anything that April 9 we had done. I think there—— In the afternoon, the President and Hillary Ms. Woodruff. And you’re still saying Clinton returned to Washington, DC. that? The President. Absolutely. And I think April 11 there has to be—I think what we need is— In the afternoon, the President hosted a nobody wants to abolish the First Amend- working lunch for Prime Minister Benazir ment, but people who can shape our culture Bhutto of Pakistan. have a responsibility to try to help build it The President announced his intention to up. And when they show things that are de- appoint Wayne Shackelford as a member of structive, they need to be shown in a destruc- the Federal Advisory Committee on Green- tive light, not in a glorified light. house Gas Emissions From Personal Motor So if I might give you two examples, I think Vehicles. that one reason people liked ‘‘Forrest Gump’’ The President announced his intention to is they thought it reasserted American values. appoint Leland D. Tillman as Chairman and And it didn’t hide the problems of the sixties, United States Commissioner of the Canadian seventies, and eighties; in fact, it explored River Commission. them, but it showed them in a sad and tragic The White House announced the Presi- light. dent has invited President Kim Young Sam The movie ‘‘Boys N The Hood’’ was a vio- of South Korea to the United States for a lent movie, but it deglorified, it demystified state visit July 25–28. gang life. No one could watch that movie and April 12 walk away from it with anything other than In the morning, the President traveled to that children should not do these things. So Fort Benning, GA, and then to Warm there is a way for these subjects to be dealt Springs, GA. with and to be commercially successful and In the afternoon, the President returned still send cultural messages that bring us to- to Washington, DC. gether and make us stronger. Ms. Woodruff. All right, Mr. President, April 14 thank you for joining us. In the afternoon, the President and Hillary The President. Thank you. and Chelsea Clinton traveled to Camp David, MD, for the Easter weekend. NOTE: The interview began at 11:40 a.m. in the The President announced his intention to Roosevelt Room at the White House. In his re- appoint John L. Hall to the Board of Direc- marks, he referred to Rolf Ekeus, chairman, Unit- ed Nations Special Commission (Iraqi Weapons). tors of the Mickey Leland National Urban Air Toxics Research Center. The President announced his intention to appoint Anthony Williams as a Department of Agriculture Federal Representative to the Digest of Other Rural Telephone Bank Board. White House Announcements The President announced his intention to appoint Joseph C. Swift as a member of the

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