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Parliamentary Debates (Hansard) Friday Volume 588 21 November 2014 No. 65 HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD) Friday 21 November 2014 £5·00 © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2014 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Open Parliament licence, which is published at www.parliament.uk/site-information/copyright/. 537 21 NOVEMBER 2014 538 Fovargue, Yvonne McKenzie, Mr Iain House of Commons Francis, Dr Hywel Mearns, Ian Gardiner, Barry Metcalfe, Stephen Gilmore, Sheila Miller, Andrew Friday 21 November 2014 Glindon, Mrs Mary Moon, Mrs Madeleine Goodman, Helen Mordaunt, Penny The House met at half-past Nine o’clock Goodwill, Mr Robert Morden, Jessica Gove, rh Michael Morris, Grahame M. Greatrex, Tom (Easington) PRAYERS Green, Kate Murray, Ian Griffith, Nia Osborne, Sandra Gwynne, Andrew Owen, Albert [MR SPEAKER in the Chair] Gyimah, Mr Sam Penning, rh Mike Hands, rh Greg Perkins, Toby Hanson, rh Mr David Poulter, Dr Daniel NEW MEMBER Heald, Sir Oliver Pugh, John The following Member took and subscribed the Oath Healey, rh John Reed, Mr Jamie required by law: Heath, Mr David Robertson, Angus Mark John Reckless, for Rochester and Strood. Hilling, Julie Robertson, John Hodgson, Mrs Sharon Rotheram, Steve Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab): I beg to move, That the Hollobone, Mr Philip Roy, Mr Frank Hosie, Stewart Rudd, Amber House sit in private. Howarth, rh Mr George Seabeck, Alison Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 163). Huppert, Dr Julian Sheerman, Mr Barry Irranca-Davies, Huw Shuker, Gavin The House divided: Ayes 1, Noes 125. James, Mrs Siân C. Skinner, Mr Dennis Division No. 88] [9.35 am Jamieson, Cathy Slaughter, Mr Andy Johnson, Diana Spellar, rh Mr John AYES Jones, Andrew Stewart, Bob Nuttall, Mr David Tellers for the Ayes: Jones, Graham Swayne, rh Mr Desmond Jones, Mr Kevan Tami, Mark Nic Dakin and Jones, Susan Elan Tredinnick, David Tom Blenkinsop Kane, Mike Twigg, Derek Keeley, Barbara Vaizey, Mr Edward NOES Kendall, Liz Vaz, Valerie Abrahams, Debbie Campbell, Mr Ronnie Khan, rh Sadiq Walley, Joan Alexander, Heidi Chope, Mr Christopher Lavery, Ian Weir, Mr Mike Anderson, Mr David Clark, Katy Lazarowicz, Mark Whiteford, Dr Eilidh Ashworth, Jonathan Clarke, rh Mr Tom Lefroy, Jeremy Williams, Roger Baldry, rh Sir Tony Clwyd, rh Ann Letwin, rh Mr Oliver Williamson, Gavin Baldwin, Harriett Cooper, Rosie Lewell-Buck, Mrs Emma Wilson, Phil Banks, Gordon Cunningham, Mr Jim Long, Naomi Winterton, rh Ms Rosie Mann, John Barron, rh Kevin Dobson, rh Frank Wright, David McCarthy, Kerry Begg, Dame Anne Dunne, Mr Philip Wright, Mr Iain Benn, rh Hilary Durkan, Mark McDonald, Andy Berger, Luciana Eagle, Maria McDonnell, John Tellers for the Noes: Bottomley, Sir Peter Edwards, Jonathan McInnes, Liz Mr David Evennett and Bray, Angie Eustice, George McKechin, Ann Anne Milton Brennan, Kevin Field, Mark Brown, Mr Russell Fitzpatrick, Jim Question accordingly negatived. Burnham, rh Andy Flello, Robert Campbell, rh Mr Alan Flint, rh Caroline 539 21 NOVEMBER 2014 National Health Service (Amended 540 Duties and Powers) Bill National Health Service (Amended Duties of State about the cost of those lawyers and accountants and Powers) Bill to oversee the tendering process, what was the response? It was, “We do not collect those figures centrally.” I Second Reading wonder why that is. 9.50 am Dr Julian Huppert (Cambridge) (LD) rose— Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab): I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time. Clive Efford: Ah! The hon. Gentleman is presumably getting to his feet to apologise for supporting the 2012 Today we begin to restore the sovereignty of this Act. House over our national health service. We begin to put patients at the heart of decision making. We will restore Dr Huppert: I have no need to apologise, because I the responsibility of the Secretary of State to promote a voted against it. I was actually about to give the hon. comprehensive national health service. We will tear the Gentleman credit for introducing this Bill, which I look heart out of the hated Health and Social Care Act 2012. forward to supporting, and for his role in opposing We will remove the health service commissioners’obligation some of the things that the Labour Government did. to put services out to tender. We will replace the 49% Does he welcome the fact that the £800 million tender private patient cap, and allow the Secretary of State to for older people’s services in Cambridgeshire stayed set limits. We will prevent competition authorities from within the NHS? Does he also accept the concerns that interfering in mergers that are in the interests of NHS many of us had about the contract at Hinchingbrooke patients. We will stop the sale of assets that are in the that was put out to private tender by the last Labour long-term interests of patients and our national health Government? I am sure he would agree that that was a service. We will restore the powers of the Secretary of problem. State to direct health commissioners. We will create a framework for national health service contracts that Clive Efford: It is just not realistic to compare what will put the interests of patients before competition. We went on under the previous Labour Government with will protect the NHS from the imposition of competition what is going on now. Yes, the contract in Cambridgeshire, rules by the transatlantic trade and investment partnership, at Peterborough, was won by an NHS bidder, but what and give sovereignty to this House. was the cost? How much money was diverted from Through this House, the Secretary of State will be patient care into running that tendering process? That is accountable for promoting a comprehensive national an increasing cost to the NHS that we cannot allow to health service. If any Government dare to impose continue. By the way, I unreservedly withdraw my accusation competition on our national health service in the future, that the hon. Gentleman voted in favour of the 2012 they will have to come before the House and repeal this Act, because that is a calumny I would not use against Bill, if it becomes an Act. We, as Members of the my worst enemy. House, will be accountable to our constituents for how Through the House, the Secretary of State would be we vote in that debate. There will be no hiding place. accountable— Some have expressed the fear that the Bill opens the door to further privatisation. It does not. I accept that Philip Davies (Shipley) (Con): Will the hon. Gentleman the last Labour Government unlocked the door to give way? competition, albeit in a modest and measured way. I voted against the creation of hospital foundation trusts, Clive Efford: Yes, I will, because I have lost my place. which introduced legally binding contracts with NHS commissioners; in retrospect it was a mistake, because it Philip Davies: I am delighted to help the hon. Gentleman brought procurement law into parts of the NHS. out. Helpful as ever! He talks about stopping what he calls privatisation and about putting the Secretary of Sir Oliver Heald (North East Hertfordshire) (Con): I State in charge. At the moment, there is a cap on the congratulate the hon. Gentleman on being so lucky in amount of private income that a hospital trust can gain, the draw. He has referred to competition. Does he not but does he agree that clause 7 of his Bill would remove accept that Labour did much more than he is suggesting? that cap, giving discretion to the Secretary of State? The then Secretary of State, who is now the shadow Does he acknowledge that the amount of private income Secretary of State, privatised an entire hospital in the a hospital could receive could actually go up under east of England. That is privatisation. [Interruption.] his Bill? Clive Efford: It is not possible to compare what went Clive Efford: There are a number of provisions relating on under the last Government with what has been to the Secretary of State which state that everything introduced by the raw market mechanisms of the 2012 Act. that is decided has to put patients first, rather than competition. That is the key difference in this Bill. The Robert Flello (Stoke-on-Trent South) (Lab): I, too, Secretary of State will have to be satisfied that every congratulate my hon. Friend. Is he aware that in north penny raised from private income serves the needs of Staffordshire, cancer and end-of-life care is going into patients. The Secretary of State will set the limit, which the private sector on a 10-year contract worth £1.2 billion? can be variable, but it will have to come down because this House will demand that. Clive Efford: There are numerous examples of contracts that are going out to tender, and the cost to the national Mr Jim Cunningham (Coventry South) (Lab): Is it health service of lawyers and accountants is increasing. not true that, under this Government’s reorganisation, The Government have made so much of the issue of between £3 billion and £5 billion has been wasted as a bureaucracy in the NHS, but when I asked the Secretary result of tendering exercises? 541 National Health Service (Amended 21 NOVEMBER 2014 National Health Service (Amended 542 Duties and Powers) Bill Duties and Powers) Bill Clive Efford: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Grahame M. Morris (Easington) (Lab): I congratulate There are too many examples of money being wasted my hon. Friend on introducing this Bill. Does he agree on the tendering process. that the Liberal Democrats have got a brass neck in Those who suggest that what the Labour Government making criticisms, given that not only did they sit on did can be compared in any measure with what this their hands during that Bill Committee, but the right coalition has inflicted on our national health service are hon.
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