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990113 035128 00001 tna1pada3 - 11 : 32pm Jan 13 , 1999 EST ( of 35135 ) } 00002 * " It ain ' t over til it ' s over " During the impeachment trial of Judge Alcee L . Hastings , Senator Specter stated : [T]he impeachment process [] relies in significant measure on decisions of the court and the opinion of judges . . . [T]he decisions and interpretations of the courts should be highly instructive to us . In our system of Government , it has been the courts that through the years have been called upon to construe , define and apply the provisions of our Constitution . Their decisions reflect our values and our evolving notions of justice . . . Although we are a branch of Government coequal with the judiciary , and by the Constitution vested with the " sole " power to try impeachments , I believe that the words and reasoning of judges who have struggled with the meaning and application of the Constitution and its provisions ought to be given great heed because that jurisprudence embodies the values of fairness and justice that ought to be the polestar of our own determinations . S . Doc . 101-18 , 101st Cong . , 1st Sess . at 740-41 . As Senator Specter observed , judicial rules have been developed and refined over the years to assure that court proceedings are fair , and that an accused is assured the necessary tools to prepare a proper defense , including proper notice . 035129 00001 jakbert - 11 : 35pm Jan 13 , 1999 EST ( of 35135 ) > 00002 tnal : } 00003 *Therefore , your point , verbose as written , is moot . 035130 00001 hugsy - 11 : 37pm Jan 13 , 1999 EST ( of 35135 ) } 00002 *I can see once again someone is not getting enough attention , so he has decided to ruin the conversational environment for the rest of us with endless pastes . 035131 00001 searingtruth - 11 : 38pm Jan 13 , 1999 EST ( of 35135 ) } 00002 *The Republican party stands bare naked before the world , its pious hypocrisy and disdain for democracy dripping from its tongue > 00003 tna1pada3 1 / 13 / 99 11 : 32pm } 00004 *Ah , the rule of law . How the Republican party despises it . Thank you Ada ! . 035132 00001 padu329 - 11 : 39pm Jan 13 , 1999 EST ( of 35135 ) > 00002 tnalpada3 } 00003 *-----Thanks for your tireless efforts to illuminate the perjury issue ...... The Democrats on the House Judiciary Committee tried very hard to get the R ' s to be specific about allegedly perjurious statements . Hyde and his GOP comrades bent over backward to be nonspecific , because they couldn ' t construct articles of impeachment that would stand up to legal tests . The process has been , from the beginning , a POLITICAL one ...... the aim of House Republicans has been to stigmatize Clinton with the Scarlet " I " . They have known from Day 1 that removal is unlikely , yet they have persisted in prolonging the process . I suggest the remedy is political as well--- 2000 can not come soon enough ...... 035133 00001 hugsy - 11 : 40pm Jan 13 , 1999 EST ( of 35135 ) > 00002 dagwood , } 00003 *could you find my response in the middle of all that crap ? 035134 00001 searingtruth - 11 : 46pm Jan 13 , 1999 EST ( of 35135 ) } 00002 *Thanks for the debate everyone . My significant other is demanding attention , and I ' m going to give it to her ! . I wish you all a good evening . SearingTruth 035135 00001 hugsy - 11 : 48pm Jan 13 , 1999 EST ( of 35135 ) > 00002 searingtruth 1 / 13 / 99 11 : 46pm } 00003 *The real reason 75% of the country is too busy to pay any attention to this saga .
amazingly , was a judge ( now I see how people get such low opinions of politicians ) --people like Rogan who are going to try to make low-level , stupid arguments like the Constitution allows impeachment for these alleged charges . Probably even requires it . The American people are getting more and more aware of what is going on . THE SENATE REPUBLICANS HAVE THE POWER TO PULL THE PLUG AT ANYTIME ON THIS CHARADE . Will they ? Each day that they don ' t--and I ' m sure they ' re trying to test the public ' s reaction to this one more chance for the Republican managers defaming the President--they ' re sinking . I don ' t care if THEY sink . I do care if this Constitutional form of government sinks . I care deeply , and I am daily gauging the amount of effort I will put in to sinking the Republicans , according to what they do . 035764 00001 yippie7 - 07 : 30pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36055 ) } 00002 *QUESTIONS for the Ridiculous white right wing republican groupie so called house managers ! 1 ) Why are all of the so called house managers are republicans and white ? ( In nixon ' s case there was bipartisanship to impeach the idiot . Also that fat kissinger should be deported for his crimes ! ) 2 ) Why is there only one supreme court judge presiding over this so called case ? 3 ) Do the so called house managers think that Vernon Jordan and Michael Jordan had the same slave masters 400 years ago ? 035765 00001 hugsy - 07 : 31pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36055 ) } 00002 *Well , I decided today may be too volatile a time for that kind of discussion . Bye for now , and remember : Even if the unexpected happens , GORE WILL BE PRESIDENT , not anyone you didn ' t vote for . Till next , take care of yourself , and each other . 035766 00001 dogbert85 - 07 : 31pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36055 ) } 00002 *The republicans only chance for redemption is to end this witchhunt quickly in the Senate , otherwise 2000 looms as their return to minority status . The delusional repugs actually think there is a chance for BC ' s removal . The is a chance for removal , a big one , for the repugs in 2000 . The repugs are like lemmings going over a cliff . Goodbyyyye . +++ 035767 00001 willie-g - 07 : 35pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36054 ) } 00002 *I love it , Bill get`s impeached and Hillary has to write the check to Paula ! > 00003 dogbert85 } 00004 *Listen pal , the facts are not with you , the year 2000 is a long way off , and the only ones that count are the senators . The case is being laid out such that the defense will have to refute the facts , making sure that witnesses are called . It has been well organized and obviously frustrating to you . Let them make the case . 035768 00001 dogbert85 - 07 : 39pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36054 ) } 00002 *The republicans only chance for redemption is to end this witchhunt quickly in the Senate , otherwise 2000 looms as their return to minority status . Show me a repug and I ' ll show you a racist . Show me a repug and I ' ll show you a gay-basher . Show me a repug and I ' ll show you the door . LOL 035769 00001 d-fendr - 07 : 39pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36054 ) > 00002 yippie : } 00003 *If all you have are racist comments , perhaps a chat room would be a more appropriate forum for you . 035770 00001 scott1581 - 07 : 40pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36054 ) } 00002 *The Liberals who support President Clinton blindly are crawling into the sewer with him and his new found friend Larry Flynt . It is unblievable that the moral standards of these people have sunk so low . God save our country from this morally corrupt group of people and give those who would seek the truth the courage to do so even at the risk of short term loss . The American people are not stupid and truth will out in the long run . Bill 035771 00001 jolietjake1 - 07 : 40pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36054 ) } 00002 *Man , > 00003 Heim } 00004 *the wacko ' s come out at night don ' they ? Was that Sensebrenner opening not beautiful ? Hey Redneck / Wanderer . . . uhhh . . . I mena " Dogbert , " -- what is this your twelth or thirteenth name , now ? I keep trying to tell you that your dumb comments give you away every time . Cute name this time though . 035772 00001 svcarlson - 07 : 42pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36054 ) } 00002 *As all the Senate Democrats are saying now , people like Rogan argue out of one side of their mouth that they have overwhelming evidence that the Presdident must be impeached and removed . Out of the other side of their mouth , they argue that they can ' t win the case unless they call more witnesses ( although they did not call them in their own House , which they completely controlled ) . They don ' t make sense . Either they ' re up there smoking dope , or they think the whole country is out here smoking . They ' re circling and going down as we watch them . 035773 00001 lat_handyman - 07 : 47pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36054 ) } 00002 * " You can best reward a liar by believing nothing of what he says . " ...... Aristippus > 00003 Bill : } 00004 *There are two races in America . The Liberal Race and the rest of us . I hate Liberals , therefore I am a racist . 035774 00001 d-fendr - 07 : 50pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36054 ) } 00002 *Nothing but distraction , denigration , denial and delay from democrat defenders . When the evidence and the facts are against you , call names . Some debate , more like a food fight . On with the trial . 035775 00001 teririley - 07 : 50pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36054 ) } 00002 *Neither Larry Flynt nor Howard Stern shove anything at you . Usage of their material is completely voluntary . In the case of Larry ' s material you have to go so far as to pay for it . Larry Flynt is shoving the crass hypocrisy and lies of the Republican party into our faces , but that ' s part of the US democratic process . I think Flynt ' s insistence on honesty and Stern ' s focus on humor are values I ' d favor much more than the Republican " family values " which seem to include a disrespect for democracy and an inability to loose with grace . I don ' t think cavorting with the KKK , as Lott and Barr have done , is a family value . Neither do I think opposition to the Family Leave Act shows " family values . " Leaving a Reganesque $4 trillion debt to future generations definitely isn ' t a family value . Republican ' s don ' t have family values : they ' ve consistently through this century been the party of hypocrisy , lies , dirty political tricks , and budgetary incompetence . They ' ve ruined good people during the McCarthy and Nixon years and have tried to ruin good people today , albeit unsuccessfully ( and , hopefully , ruining their own filthy party in the process ) . Republicans also consistently oppose true family-friendly government initiatives . 035776 00001 d-fendr - 07 : 51pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36054 ) } 00002 *Nothing but distraction , denigration , denial and delay from democrat defenders . When the evidence and the facts are against you , call names . Some debate , more like a food fight . On with the trial . +++ 035777 00001 dogbert85 - 07 : 52pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36053 ) } 00002 *The republicans only chance for redemption is to end this witchhunt quickly in the Senate , otherwise 2000 looms as their return to minority status . > 00003 jolietjaked } 00004 *I ' m not sure who you are , but suspect you are one of the dim-witted repugs who used to post on this forum night and day . You should be happy , your hero repugs will be joining you in the unemployment line in 2001 . Make them feel welcome . 035778 00001 newpress - 07 : 53pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36053 ) } 00002 *Clinton supporters : We have nothing to fear , but truth itself ! ! 035779 00001 jolietjake1 - 07 : 53pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36053 ) } 00002 *Did you read any of the case today Carleson ? Did you catch any of Sensenbrenners presentation ? Take your head out of Walter Mondale land and read . Witnesses will be needed to prove the charges , but if the President will stipulate to the prior testimony ( which he won ' t ) the managers will be perfectly happy , believe me . 035780 00001 svcarlson - 07 : 54pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36053 ) } 00002 *Here ' s Sensenbrenner ' s brilliant argument : " The President engaged in a conspiracy of crimes " to cover up his inappropriate relationship with Lewinsky . A CONSPIRACY OF CRIMES . The President has not been charged with , or convicted of ONE . Sensenbrenner is another individual of LOW INTELLIGENCE and no integrity . 035781 00001 searingtruth - 07 : 55pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36053 ) } 00002 *The Republican party stands bare naked before the world , its pious hypocrisy and disdain for democracy dripping from its tongue That ' s it ? . Do they actually need two more days ? . Fantastic . I knew their case was weak , but actually hearing them speak the words was really eye opening . It even sounds utterly ridiculous when their best lawyers and most piously hypocritical Christian Coalition agents give a " carefully studied " presentation . Reality is a knockin ' hard . I suggest they hire Johnny Cochrane quick . Can a political parties approval ratings go any lower than a third of the people ? . If it ' s the Republican party , I think so . 035782 00001 dickmorr - 07 : 56pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36053 ) > 00002 svcarlson : } 00003 *Rogan looked real good - for a lawyer . So did Sensebrenner . Clinton looks worse than we thought - in otherwords , he should resign or say goodby the hardway by being forced out of office . Either way , Clinton loses . If he stays in office , he will be mocked continuously for the next two years and do exactly nothing for the nation . If he resigns , Gore can pardon him and he can get away from the heat of Washington - which despises him anyway . If the Senate forces him out ( which they will if they follow the Constitution ) , then he will live the same life as Nixon - which was very humilating . Do you really want to keep a loser in the White House ? If you are a Democrat , you better hope he loses the Senate fight and get rid of him . Ket Gore take a shot at the big job even if he makes us all nervous . Gore is going to become President ( unfortunately ) and so start looking for a VP . How about Maxine Waters ? Or maybe Barney Franks . The Dems . have been talking about minorities for centuries , now is the hour . 035783 00001 republicanok - 07 : 58pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36053 ) > 00002 Dear Dogbut : } 00003 *I gather you are a fan of Bill Flynton . Are you jealous of Monica ? } 00004 *I gather you are going to get another sterling character in your corner tonight - Madonna . Flynton , Carvell , Flynt , Modonna , Alan Dirtbag , etc . such intelligence , such character , such leaders ! 035784 00001 spinthis - 07 : 58pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36053 ) Profiles in Hypocrisy : House Managers Voting Record of Rep . F . James Sensenbrenner , Jr . ( R-Wisconsin ) Abortion / Family Planning 1997-1998 On the votes that the National Right to Life Committee considered to be the most important in 1997-1998 , Representative Sensenbrenner voted their preferred position 100 percent of the time . 1997 On the votes that the National Abortion Reproductive Rights Action League considered to be the most important in 1997 , Representative Sensenbrenner voted their preferred position 0 percent of the time . 1993-1996 On the votes that the Planned Parenthood considered to be the most important in 1993-1996 , Representative Sensenbrenner voted their preferred position 6 percent of the time . 1991 On the votes that the Justlife Education Fund - Abortion considered to be the most important in 1991 , Representative Sensenbrenner voted their preferred position 100 percent of the time . On the votes that the Vietnam Veterans of America considered to be the most important in 1997-1998 , Representative Sensenbrenner voted their preferred position only 33 percent of the time . --> 035785 00001 southerndeb - 07 : 59pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36053 ) } 00002 * " Hey , Boo . " Miss Jean Louise Finch I thought Hutchinson did a very credible job . He was probably the best of all , for my money . I followed his train of thought from beginning to end . Also , I think Rogan did a great job with the gift thing . . . I had never heard in the national media that Currie said of Monica , " Well , she might remember better than I , " on who asked for the gifts to be returned . I really hope they call witnesses . I would like to hear Currie refute the president ' s testimony in her own words . Maybe then you lefties might get a clue . She is closer to him than most , and if she won ' t lie for him then she will be an object lesson for the rest . 035786 00001 dogbert85 - 08 : 00pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36053 ) } 00002 *The republicans only chance for redemption is to end this witchhunt quickly in the Senate , otherwise 2000 looms as their return to minority status . Taking a coverup of an affair to impeachment is the ultimate mockery of justice ever pulled on the American people . The repugs are trying to set the standard so low for impeachment that jay-walking would be grounds for removal . Vote these repug hooligans out in 2000 . +++ 035787 00001 newpress - 08 : 01pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36053 ) } 00002 *Innocent men don ' t fear witnesses . 035788 00001 teririley - 08 : 01pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36053 ) } 00002 *Barr swore in a deposition that he did not encourage his wife to seek an abortion when she says he , in fact , did . Granted it ' s really nobody ' s business . But it ' s also not anybody ' s where Clinton touched Lewinsky and visa-versa . So Barr would be guilty of perjury in a case stronger than Barr is charging Clinton in ( because for Clinton the entire " perjurious " testimony -- assuming it was perjury -- was ruled irrelevant and immaterial whereas for Barr it was the crux of the testimony ) . Ironically if it were up to Barr seeking an abortion would be illegal . So , is it safe to assume all you Republican ' s think an investigation should be opened with at least a few million spent to see whether Barr really did encourage his wife to seek an abortion ( or whether it was her idea ) ? I suppose the prosecutor ' s could ask friends , neighbors , and business associates . They could indict anybody who said anything that disagreed with their " facts " . They could kidnap witnesses and threaten to prosecute their parents . After all , we do have to " uphold the law " because " serious crimes " -- crimes " more severe than treason and bribery " -- have been committed . Right ? 035789 00001 svcarlson - 08 : 02pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36053 ) } 00002 * I ' ve met Walter Mondale . Walter Mondale is a friend of mine . Mondale is a man of great intelligence , sincerity and ability . He served this President extremely well as Ambassador to Japan . He is an example of the kind of leadership this President has given . That ' s why he is doing quite well . Someday , if a Republican leader ever emerges , they will have a chance to show their ability . And if they do , I ' ll support them too , just like I supported and voted for George Bush Sr . 035790 00001 searingtruth - 08 : 03pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36053 ) } 00002 * The Republican party stands bare naked before the world , its pious hypocrisy and disdain for democracy dripping from its tongue . > 00003 lat_handyman 1 / 14 / 99 7 : 47pm } 00004 * " You can best reward a liar by believing nothing of what he says . " ...... Aristippus } 00005 *I guess you don ' t believe anything that Hyde , Barr , Lott , Livingston , Newt , Burton , Chenoweth , Bush , Reagan , etc . say either . Geez . Republican = Hypocrisy . 035791 00001 jerryhere - 08 : 04pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36053 ) } 00002 *Bill has flaws From today ' s New York Times Opinion section : OP-ED CONTRIBUTORS The $10 Billion Man ? By STEVEN E . LANDSBURG Michael Jordan ' s impact on everything from game attendance to Nike ' s sales , has led Fortune Magazine to lable Jordan the " $10 Billion Man . " But does all that enrichment really add up to $10 billion ? What ' s the matter with the above paragraph ? Well , I guess us posters have trouble with our respective keyboards too , eh ? 035792 00001 dogbert85 - 08 : 08pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36053 ) } 00002 *The republicans only chance for redemption is to end this witchhunt quickly in the Senate , otherwise 2000 looms as their return to minority status . Actually , the repugs would try to impeach BC for jay-walking if they could . Their reasoning would be as follows : Can we let this man set an example for all of American of disregarding lawful traffic signals ? What if everyone jaywalked ? There would be total chaos and anarchy in the streets . For the good of the nation , he must be removed from office . Sound familiar . LOL southerndeb - 08 : 09pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( §§035793 of 36053 ) " Hey , Boo . " Miss Jean Louise Finch dogbert85 1 / 14 / 99 8 : 00pm Hey Lucky / dogbert ! He only got caught lying and obstructing justice on sexual charges . Of all of this mess , the business over Paula Jones disturbs me the most . The fact that he and Monica only had oral sex would ( I think ) show a pattern of behavior . And since that is what Paula accused him of , might not it have made a difference to know that he had restricted himself to only that behavior on previous occasions ( with an employee ) ? The case was up for appeal ( which a lot of people think would have been granted ) , but it looks like it was thrown out because it was settled . . . . the appeal was never ajudicated . Forget the rest , it really bothers me that he screwed with the legal system over Paula Jones . He had no right to think he was above Paula where justice is concerned . If he goes , it should be for that . IMHO 035794 00001 hiphop2 - 08 : 11pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36053 ) } 00002 *Best news I have heard out of all this was that Barr forced his wife to have an abortion . At least he helped us get rid of a right winged facist hypocrite before he got to foist his idiocy on the country like his daddy ( assuming it would have been a boy ) . Hey is Barr a target of the wacko assasination squad roaming the country murdering people who support abortion rights ? That would be cool ! 035795 00001 svcarlson - 08 : 12pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36053 ) > 00002 Morris : } 00003 *I ' m watching Rogan again . He looks good ? His strongest argument is that the House was a Grand Jury ( another one , I ' m sure ) , and that witnesses should not be called at a Grand Jury . Is this true , Morris ? I don ' t know , because I just saw Charles Schumer , a major political figure unlike former D . A . Rogan , say that witnesses should be called in a Grand Jury , AND in the trial . Besides , I don ' t think the House of Representatives is a Grand Jury . Quite the contrary , they are supposed to be the legislative body closest to the people and therefore able to protect the people from REAL abuse of power by the President . Do you REALLY think , Dick , that the Founding Fathers would have taken away from the people ' s House the right to impeach and remove the President , subject to ratification by the Senate ? I don ' t . 035796 00001 persecution1 - 08 : 12pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36053 ) > 00002 rtachner 1 / 14 / 99 6 : 07pm } 00003 *Yes well the haters in congress , after five years of trying , finally managed to label concealing a consensual bj a " felony " . May you be tripped by your " friends " and blessed with an equally abusive prosecutor who will take you into the abyss . I wish you nothing but the same you have wished Clinton ; - ) In the meantime , get out your pom poms and cheer on this constitutional debacle . Enjoy ! Enjoy ! +++ 035797 00001 jolietjake1 - 08 : 13pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36053 ) > 00002 spinthis 1 / 14 / 99 7 : 58pm Dang it ! I ' m gonna have to get on that Sensenbrenner for that 6% gaff ! Hee hee ! Dogbert / Wanderer / Redneck-- under any name the malicious ignorance shines through , no worries , my friend . I was having a discussion the other night about those two creepy children ( a boy and girl ) under the robes of the Ghost of Christmas Present in Dickens ' A Christmas Carol . We thought it quite apt that the little boy ' s name was Ignorance ( the poor girl was Want ) and that Dickens ' ( in the ghost ' s words ) warned to be most careful of the boy , as he was the most dangerous . That boy is out in full flagrante on this forum tonight it appears . 035798 00001 newpress - 08 : 13pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36053 ) } 00002 *Considering they depend on African American support to win elections , the real question is how many Blacks do the Dems put in the Senate ? That is where the real racism and hypocrisy lies . 035799 00001 d-fendr - 08 : 13pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36053 ) > 00002 spinthis : } 00003 *You ' re slipping , you forgot to criticize Sensenbrenner on the basis of race , gender and religion . Oh , yeah , you did that earlier . Never mind . Delay , deny , distract , denigrate , attack the voting record of the prosecutor ? Now that ' s a new one . . . Try it on the judge next time you ' re in court . 035800 00001 flash . marara - 08 : 13pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36053 ) } 00002 *I am always baffled by the discrepancy between the pronouncements and the actions of our " representatives " . The Senators are the jurors in this Impeachment trial and the members of the House of Representatives are the " prosecutors " ascerting that Obstruction of Justice and Perjury in the Presidential sex testimonies are impeachable offences . The rule requires the Senators to be silent participants during during the process . Would someone explain to me how come nobody is raising an issue of impropriety on the know fact that the Procecutors ( members of the House of Representatives ) have met with the met with the Jurors ( Senators ) to discuss the issue of calling witnesses during these procedings ! ! ! If this process is said to be the trial of the President by the Senate , is it proper for members of the jury to meet with members of the procecution or defense for the matter ? I am not a lawyer but I am sure the majority of our " representatives are " and I would sure like to know what the Chief Justice ( the Judge ) thinks or should do about this . 035801 00001 d-fendr - 08 : 13pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36053 ) > 00002 spinthis : } 00003 *You ' re slipping , you forgot to criticize Sensenbrenner on the basis of race , gender and religion . Oh , yeah , you did that earlier . Never mind . Delay , deny , distract , denigrate , attack the voting record of the prosecutor ? Now that ' s a new one . . . Try it on the judge next time you ' re in court . 035802 00001 jimmie50 - 08 : 14pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36053 ) > 00002 d-fendr - 05 : 12pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( #35687 of 35761 ) } 00003 *If I may interrupt the parodies for a moment : Here is Hutchinsons summary , which he supported in great detail with the testimony and evidence on record : " What did the President do that constitutes evidence of obstruction ? First , he personally encouraged a witness , Monica Lewinsky , to provide false testimony from the time she first became a witness until he no longer had any control over her . } 00004 *What evidence has come forward that BC had ' control ' over ML at the time she became a witness or anytime after that . Looks like she had HIM over a barrel . } 00005 *Second , the President had direct involvement in assuring a job for a witness in a federal civil rights suit at the same time he personally encouraged
the filing of a false affidavit by that witness . } 00006 *What evidence shows that he encouraged the filing of a FALSE affidavit . } 00007 *Third , the President personally with corrupt intentions tampered with the testimony of a prospective witness , Betty Currie . } 00008 *What evidence shows that BC tampered or had ' corrupt intentions ' . Betty testifies that she did not feel intimidated or tampered with . } 00009 *Fourth , the President himself provided false statements under oath before the federal grand jury . } 00010 *What statements were false ? } 00011 *Fifth , by direct and circumstantial evidence the President directed the concealment of evidence under subpoena in a judicial proceeding . } 00012 *Again , what evidence ? Monica says it was Betty . Betty says it was Monica . } 00013 *Seventh , he intentionally provided false information to witnesses before a federal grand jury , knowing that those statements would be repeated with the intent to obstruct the proceedings of the federal grand jury . } 00014 *Where is evidence that the false statements should or would obstruct the proceedings ? He merely repeated the lie that was made on National TV . If that was enough for the Grand Jury , they would have never called those witnesses . 035803 00001 dogbert85 - 08 : 16pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36053 ) } 00002 *The republicans only chance for redemption is to end this witchhunt quickly in the Senate , otherwise 2000 looms as their return to minority status . " this was in addition to the $15 million raised by the Family Research Council that Bauer heads ? The repug hack George Will never ceases to amaze me with his stupidity . He gives a favorable review to Bauer , an avowed gay-basher and racist . No wonder the repugs are so despicable , with nitwits like George Will supporting these freedom stompers they are a danger to society . 035804 00001 dickmorr - 08 : 19pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36053 ) > 00002 southerndeb : } 00003 *It really doesn ' t matter if they call witnesses . If the President ' s people accept the testimony as it stands , the President is cooked by just what has been presented thus far . The President is in deep wazoo . Shiela Lee ( D ) Texas say that they should not have been so tough on poor old Jordan and Currie - even though they were inplicated as part of
the President ' s coverup plan . In fact Shiela is playing the good old race card - shades of OJ ' s lawyers . This will be a tragedy if this is played out . Sexual harassment in spades for the President and Jordan ' s involvement in finding Monica a job ! ! ! 035805 00001 spinthis - 08 : 20pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36053 ) } 00002 *Right-wing panty sniffers who also are GOP leaders --> 00003 +++ 035806 00001 taymar8326 - 08 : 20pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36053 ) > 00002 willie g re ; - 06 : 51pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( # of 35789 ) } 00003 * " I am sooooo sick of this crap ! " } 00004 *I agree completely ! } 00005 * " Republicans are a bunch of hypocritical self-servers who are wasting time , money and effort pursuing this whole issue . Funny how they seem to " forget " that Reagan lied to the American people and Congress and that he illegally sold arms to the Contras against Congress ' wishes . " } 00006 *Transgressions of past administrations do not constitute argument nor defense of the crimes perpetrated WJC . Just more partisan rhetoric . It ' s ancient history , get over it . > 00007 jlaing re ; - 07 : 01pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( # of 35789 ) } 00008 * " The polemic is rather heated , and I find that distressing . Neither side is being very nice ( calling the other side . . . Nazi ' s etc . ) I don ' t see what can cool it . Somebody should be working harder on selling this to the American people as the right thing to do , or we ' ll be the worse for it . " } 00009 *As you often do ' doc ' , you hit the nail squarely on the head . Just because it ' s embarrassing or distasteful does not mean it should be ignored . The constitution as the rule of law must be upheld lest anarchy reign . 035807 00001 probity1 - 08 : 23pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36053 ) } 00002 *Is this server slow tonight or what ? Is everyone else having the same problem ? It really affects the fun of being able to sting the clintonista maggot defenders here ! 035808 00001 supkis - 08 : 23pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36053 ) } 00002 *As the stock market melts down again , and as Saddam plots to invade Kuwait again , and as the GOP once again tries to close down Washington , one must wonder about the sanity of the people who seem so determined to get a perfectly fine middle of the road President . . . insane . This is definitely insane . 035809 00001 lakeshore2 - 08 : 23pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36053 ) } 00002 *Henry Hyde invokes the two words " I do " in his introduction to the GOP impeachment program , " I Do " says Hyde . Taking an oath and not violating it is the essence of the whole matter . . . he goes on or should I say drones on to cite Sir . Thomas Moore ( A man for all seasons , remember ? ) he says " when a man takes an oath he is holding his own life in his hands , etc . , etc . , ad nausea . You may recall that Holier than thou Henry is the same guy who also took an oath , to Mrs . Hyde . . . guess Henry felt that oath was okay to violate . These blue suited geeks are really pathetic ; when will Dilbert start doing congress instead of the workplace ? Then Sensenbrenner takes over and lies by misquoting the President ' s counsel . Boy , are these guys sharp ! Mr . dull followed by Mr . Duller . GOP in 2000 your majority is over ! goodbye . Newt you really reaped a whirlwind of mediocrity - that ' s your " sacred legacy . " Publicus . 035810 00001 searingtruth - 08 : 24pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36053 ) } 00002 *The Republican party stands bare naked before the world , its pious hypocrisy and disdain for democracy dripping from its tongue . > 00003 d-fendr 1 / 14 / 99 7 : 50pm } 00004 *Nothing but distraction , denigration , denial and delay from democrat defenders
. When the evidence and the facts are against you , call names . Some debate , more like a food fight . } 00005 *Oh , I thought I addressed the " evidence " in my first post this evening . Let me be more clear , lest you feel your request for commentary has been denied . The " evidence " is so far from what is required to prove perjury or obstruction of justice that it is embarrassing for the Republican party . All they have are innuendo and assertions , based upon the most generous derivations of the scant facts they have cited . } 00006 *On with the trial . } 00007 *Absolutely . Two things come to mind . One , the Republicans will gladly cut their own throats just so they can bleed on someone . Two , McCarthy cost them 40 years in the minority wilderness , this will have to be good for at least 60 years in the outlands . Stunningly silly . It ' s hard to believe that the Republican politicians are all the way through puberty . 035811 00001 persecution1 - 08 : 26pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36053 ) > 00002 xjwhite 1 / 14 / 99 5 : 57pm } 00003 *Please spare me the " I am a Democrat " business . Your party affiliation is not my affair nor do I care to know about it . Who you do or do not vote for is not at issue here . For me it ' s not about party . It is about humiliating the POTUS . It is about ransacking a man ' s life . It is about toppling the leader of the free world . It is about badgering Bill Clinton and his family for six years and counting at the tune of untold millions . But hey , I keep telling people like you to enjoy the show . Get out the popcorn and sit back and enjoy the fruits of your labour ; - ) 035812 00001 svcarlson - 08 : 26pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36053 ) } 00002 *Oh yeah , spades , Morris . But no race card , right ? I understand that you are trying to paint the President , with no evidence . You ' ll have to wait until the Senate calls Jordan to prove your case . And that ' s not going to happen , because the House should have done it . But yes , I understand your argument against the President of the United States is based on prejudice against the government he has pulled together , and those people of color and other victims of prejudice who the American voters have sent to Washington . I ' m still waiting for your evidence , though . 035813 00001 dogbert85 - 08 : 27pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36053 ) } 00002 *The republicans only chance for redemption is to end this witchhunt quickly in the Senate , otherwise 2000 looms as their return to minority status . > 00003 joliet Other than your usual insults you say nothing of note . I Find yUur Case kooKy and YOUr intelligence lacking . Keep up the good work . > 00004 Deb Sorry , the repugs have no CAse . Their case would be laughed out of a real court . Only in COngresses kangaroo court does it get a chance . 035814 00001 d-fendr - 08 : 28pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36053 ) > 00002 Flash : } 00003 *And , on the other side : One of the jurors is the mother of Hillary ' s sister in law ; Bill recently invited several of the jurors to dinner . Bill and Hillary worked to raise money to get several of the jurors a seat on the jury . Another juror already voted against impeachment in the House . . . This is far from a normal jury situation , but it ' s what we have , a combination political and judicial proceeding - which is I believe the founder ' s intent . I ' m with you though , the more judicial , the more evidence and the more it ' s based on the law and guilt or innocence , the better . +++ 035815 00001 yippie7 - 08 : 32pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36052 ) > 00002 d-fendr - 07 : 39pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( +++35769 of 35779 ) } 00003 *yippie : If all you have are racist comments , perhaps a chat room would be a more appropriate forum for you . } 00004 *YES , I am racist against those rediculous white wing so called house republican managers ! I hope History hunt their asses down ! 035816 00001 southerndeb - 08 : 34pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36052 ) } 00002 * " Hey , Boo . " Miss Jean Louise Finch > 00003 teririley 1 / 14 / 99 8 : 01pm } 00004 *Hi Teri , how are you ? I have two questions that come to mind when I hear the Barr abortion story : 1 ) Was the child his ? 2 ) Did they have a joint checking account ? I haven ' t been keeping track of the story because it was Flynt ' s doing . However , if it happened a long time ago , he might have felt differently at the time . I feel differently about a lot of things now than when I was in my 20 ' s . I think you know I used to not care one way or the other about abortion or the death penalty , but as I ' ve gotten older and have learned to appreciate life , I have drastically changed my view point . I ' m not defending him , because I think he is a little slimy around the edges . . . . has always appeared a little too self-righteous to me , but . . . as far as I know , he could not be prosecuted for anything that Flynt alleges . That ' s the difference between Bob and Billy . 035817 00001 dogbert85 - 08 : 35pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36052 ) } 00002 *The republicans only chance for redemption is to end this witchhunt quickly in the Senate , otherwise 2000 looms as their return to minority status . It ' s sad that the repugs wasted their period of time in the majority on a ridiculous witchhunt . They could really have furthered some of their causes had they spent more time addressing them . Too late now , back to minority status they go in 2000 . LOL 035818 00001 persecution1 - 08 : 36pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36052 ) > 00002 d-fendr 1 / 14 / 99 7 : 50pm }
00003 *On with the trial . } 00004 *Haters will pay for it in 2000 . But for the moment , I couldn ' t agree with you more . Bring on the ladies of the evening and let the world get a really close look at who brough us this witch hunt ; - ) 035819 00001 persecution1 - 08 : 38pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36052 ) > 00002 newpress 1 / 14 / 99 8 : 13pm } 00003 *I hear bob barr and trent lott are burning crosses immediately after tonight ' s festivities . You are invited . 035820 00001 searingtruth - 08 : 39pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36052 ) } 00002 *The Republican party stands bare naked before the world , its pious hypocrisy and disdain for democracy dripping from its tongue . > 00003 southerndeb 1 / 14 / 99 8 : 09pm } 00004 *My dear Southerndeb , the problems are thus . The President was only accused of making one pass at Paula Jones . It was also found that there was no retribution or threat of retribution on the job . Paula Jones did not bring any charges against the President until years after the alleged incident , once he became President , and bankrolled by right wing Clinton haters . Combine these facts with the fact that the President technically
avoided perjury , and the issue is moot . In any case , America wouldn ' t have cared if President Clinton had lied through his teeth in the face of such an obvious political smear campaign . The Republicans are truly shameless , and simply thought that the American people were a lot more stupid than they are . Nope , the Republicans were caught with their pants down . It ' s kind of funny , because they can ' t seem to pull them back up . 035821 00001 dickmorr - 08 : 42pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36052 ) > 00002 svcarlson : } 00003 *I really don ' t understand the impeachment process . Evidently , the Repubs ; think they need to follow the Johnson impeachment process , which goes back 130 years . The House did what they had to do - given the fact that they seemed compelled to finish before they lost a clear majority of their membership . It was a very Dem . vs Repub . type of hearing - and frankly bringing witnesses in front of those house manics would have been self destructive . Can you imagine Barney Franks and Maxine Waters drooling at the mouth calling every witness a communist right wing squirrel ? Although the Senators are falling into the Dems . vs ( based on comments some of them made today ) the world posturing after the first day of these hearings , I am hopeful that at the end of the trial , they will come to a role of true statepersons and do the right thing . They have to let go of their political party ' s holds however to make that a reality . The Senate is on trial as much as the President . 035822 00001 spinthis - 08 : 44pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36052 ) } 00002 *1997-98 Christian Coalition Voting Record of House GOP Impeachment Managers What follows is an evaluation stated as a percentage of 1997-1998 votes that the House Managers voted in line with the Christian Coalition on legislation that organization considered to be the most important Rep . Bob Barr ( R-Georgia ) Methodist , lawyer , white , male - 92% Rep . Ed Bryant ( R-Tennessee ) , Presbyterian , lawyer , white , male - 100% Rep . Steve Buyer ( R-Indiana ) , Methodist , lawyer , white , male - 100% Rep . Charles Canady ( R-Florida ) Presbyterian , lawyer , white , male - 100% Rep . Christopher Cannon ( R-Utah ) , Mormon , lawyer , white , male - 100% Rep . Steve Chabot ( R-Ohio ) , Roman Catholic , lawyer , white , male - 100% Rep . George Gekas ( R-Pennsylvania ) Greek Orthodox , lawyer , white , male - 93% Rep . Lindsey O . Graham ( R-South Carolina ) Southern Baptist , lawyer , white , male 93% Rep . William " Asa " Hutchinson ( R-Arkansas ) Baptist , lawyer , white , male - 93% Rep . Henry Hyde ( R-Illinois ) , Roman Catholic , lawyer , white , male - 100% Rep . Bill McCollum ( R-Florida ) Episcopalian , lawyer , white , male 87% Rep . James E . Rogan ( R-California ) , Protestant , lawyer , white , male - 100% Rep . F . James Sensenbrenner ( R-Wisconsin ) , Episcopalian , lawyer , white , male - 100% Totals : Occupation : Lawyer ( 13 ) 100% Race : White ( 13 ) 100% Gender : Male ( 13 ) 100% Religion : Christian ( 13 ) 100% - [Baptist ( 1 ) , Episcopalian ( 2 ) , Greek Orthodox ( 1 ) , Methodist ( 2 ) , Mormon ( 1 ) , Presbyterian ( 2 ) , Protestant ( 1 ) , Roman Catholic ( 2 ) , Southern Baptist ( 1 ) ] +++ 035823 00001 donkirk - 08 : 44pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36051 ) } 00002 *The Independent Counsel Statute is an insult to the Constitution . House Republicans play fast and loose with facts in Senate impeachment presentation . . . . 035824 00001 persecution1 - 08 : 45pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36051 ) } 00002 *It ' s curious to me to see how few of you people who have been obsessively labouring to " get " President Clinton are here tonight . This should be a night for all republican haters to be dancing in the streets celebrating the fruits of their venomous labour . 035825 00001 dagwoodbumstead - 08 : 45pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36051 ) } 00002 *Blondie . I don ' t understand how one can forgive and demand punishment for a moral offense . Law and Church don ' t mix very well . 8 : 23 through 8 : 32 only one timid repelican appologist stuck its head ( I think its a head ) up to smear the first family by relations and association to the planet , I think . Right On Your Bad Selves . Blow ( oops , gonna get molested for that one ( oops , oops , sex is here to stay - all I can say ) the cousin ' s kids out of the hills . 035826 00001 hcrown1 - 08 : 46pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36051 ) } 00002 *For whatever reason that Clinton ' s moral control fell behind his responsibility as a ' defender of the faith ' , an icon , in his great office , in my humble opinion , there is no valid reason to remove him from that office and negate the will of the people as demonstrated by his elections and by current polls . What individual , cognizant of his moral lapse , would not fabricate to save a marriage and a family and more important , to continue the function as President of the United States where he has performed so competently . His first election centered around his slogan - " It ' s the economy - " The economy is well despite international economic chaos . Education , enlargement of police staffs , health , crime reduction - we have them all . Despite much obfuscation this has become a political manoevre on the part of the republicans and come 2000 they will rue the day . Hilliard Crown - Santa Fe , New Mexico 035827 00001 teririley - 08 : 48pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36051 ) > 00002 hey deb : - ) } 00003 *As far as I know they were married and the former Mrs . Barr was faithful to her husband and I think the other night LF had a photo-copy of the cancelled check with Rep . Barr ' s sig on it and it wasn ' t that long ago . He pled the 5th to avoid selfincrimination so no charges can be brought against him in a court of law , but in the court of public opinion , that ' s another matter . 035828 00001 dogbert85 - 08 : 49pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36051 ) } 00002 *The republicans only chance for redemption is to end this witchhunt quickly in the Senate , otherwise 2000 looms as their return to minority status . George Bush Jr . is a member of racist and gay-bashing " clubs " . This makes him imminently qualified to be the repug standard bearer in 2000 . LOL 035829 00001 yippie7 - 08 : 51pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36051 ) } 00002 *mr . sex fiend bob barr , did you licked your mistress ' breasts today ? asa hutchinson , did you jacked off today , boy ? sensenbrenner , did you jacked off today , boy ? lindsey , did you jacked off today on the picture of President Bill Clinton ? hyde did you wrecked a marriage today , fat boy ? Inquiry minds want to know , when all of you dump assess opened the pandora ' s box to look at EVERY house and senators , and future presidents sexual history ! 035830 00001 southerndeb - 08 : 53pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36051 ) } 00002 * " Hey , Boo . " Miss Jean Louise Finch > 00003 dickmorr 1 / 14 / 99 8 : 19pm } 00004 *Sorry dickmorr . . . the server is so slow , I just now saw your message . Certain lefty posters cry foul over Barr and others with their sexual hypocracies . . . . well Clinton and Jordan should be hoisted by their own petards by the Anita Hill crowd - instead , he is forgiven because he insincerely said he was " sorry " . Clinton and his sexual harassment practices just show the Democrats true laws to live by : Do what I say is good for you , not what I might want to do myself . > 00005 Searingtruth . . . } 00006 *No matter how you look at the matter , Clinton interfered with the justice system . . . whether it was a bogus suit or not . He allowed another witness to file a false affadavit , and then lied that yes the affadavit was true . Even Bennett has admitted as much by his letter to Judge Wright . At the time the affadavit was filed , nobody knew the suit would go to appeal did they ? He could not have known whether the false testimony would have helped or not . Point is , he knowingly allowed it to be entered in as evidence . He f*cked the justice system because he thought he was above it Searingtruth . . . and for that alone he should be jailed . 035831 00001 gabrial - 08 : 53pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36051 ) } 00002 *China denies US access to Panchen Lama 035832 00001 thermopylae1 - 08 : 53pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36051 ) > 00002 hcrown1 1 / 14 / 99 8 : 46pm } 00003 *What drivel , the man could care less about his wife and kid , he has been cheating on them for 25 years , but thats his business . It became my business when he indecently exposed himself to a 22 year old employee and then lied about it in a civil lawsuit . What flavor Kool Aid do you prefer ? +++ 035833 00001 svcarlson - 08 : 54pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36051 ) } 00002 *For all would-be lawyers . The first thing to learn in a trial practice is the word " cause of action " . What is the cause of action ? If you don ' t have a cause of action , even if you prove that what you charge is true , it fails because the complaint doesn ' t state a valid cause of action . To be valid it has to be based on statute ( or constitutional documents ) or on case law showing a cause of action . Conversely , case law can demonstrate that a stated cause of action should be dismissed . In this case , the cause of action amounts to this : Would the allegations , even if true , amount to a cause of action for impeachment ? The House is not a Grand Jury . They have a Constitutional duty to review allegations like Ken Starr ' s and to determine if there is a cause of action . They didn ' t do that , simply muttering that experts disagree on what ' s impeachable . Apparently , there is also disagreement on what are experts . Now they are explaining to the Senate why they thought they had a cause of action . The Senate , on reviewing this less than impressive showing of political and legal leadership in the lower body , are simply going to reject their actions , and that ' s it . The only reason the House managers of this weak showing are trying to get witnesses in is so they can whip up their hard-core minority of followers and possibly sway some who are not elected , and who have no idea of what an impeachable offense is or why it should
be important . Sorry . They should have done that in there own body . 035834 00001 erqil - 08 : 56pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36051 ) } 00002 *Did somebody hear the presentations of the Managers this afternoon ? After the congressman from Wisconsin utterred the first word , I turned away . This man began his presentation with a quote something like nobody is above the law . Duh ! ! ! but when it comes to president impeachment , Presidents sems above some laws . 035835 00001 searingtruth - 08 : 56pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36051 ) } 00002 *I ' m sorry , but I am having to skip responding to a lot of good posts , from both sides . The server is so slow that real time interaction is not possible . 035836 00001 dogbert85 - 08 : 57pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36051 ) } 00002 *The republicans only chance for redemption is to end this witchhunt quickly in the Senate , otherwise 2000 looms as their return to minority status . " After House impeachment and Senate action , no high official will be tempted to lie under oath or obstruct justice again soon . " Bill Safire , the Nixonian hack who pretends to be a journalist , makes the mistake many RW journalist have made this last year in assuming guilt before a trial in this " scandal " . Safire has done everything in his power to keep this scandal buring short of setting DC on fire . It ' s time he retires to pasture where his " cud chewing " can be appreciated by other broken down bulls . 035837 00001 jolietjake1 - 08 : 58pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36051 ) > 00002 dogbert85 1 / 14 / 99 8 : 27pm > 00003 svcarlson 1 / 14 / 99 8 : 26pm } 00004 *And when they see that all their pon-tootling Drib drubbling , Flash-grubbling and outright swan-tootling , In the end all mean nothing and only the Truth will show you . . . When they see that their lies and obscurations are all through , And that they still havn ' t rescued Bill from his god-awful stew . . . Well , that ' s when all the libs down in Who-ville will all cry . . . Boo Hoooo ! -The Gingrinch 035838 00001 powerside1 - 08 : 59pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36051 ) } 00002 * " This country cannot afford to be materially rich and spiritually poor . . . . It reminds us of the importance of family . . and the duty we owe to each other . . . . let us all pledge by our devotion to God and family " BILL CLINTON , 10-30-96 > 00003 searingtruth 1 / 14 / 99 8 : 39pm } 00004 *The President was only accused of making one pass at Paula Jones . } 00005 *ONLY one pass ? That ' s OK under the new liberal " one free grope " standard . Never mind that the President had his pants down when he made the pass . } 00006 *the Republicans were caught with their pants down . } 00007 *An infelicitous analogy on your part . The undisputable evidence is that the prevaricator-in-chief is the one with the problem of not being able to keep his pants up and getting caught with his pants down ! } 00008 *the President technically avoided perjury } 00009 *How comforting it must be to you to find solace in dubious arguments that " the President technically avoided perjury , " exactly the sort of pride proper to a criminal who would evade his just desserts through a technicality . How proud Clinton ' s defenders must be of their president , though such pride degrades them even beneath his level--for one can hardly be proud of someone who is less than oneself . But , in truth , the question of whether the president " technically " committed perjury has yet to be decided . 035839 00001 dickmorr - 09 : 02pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36051 ) > 00002 hcrown : } 00003 *Taking about elections , only about 40% of all eligible voters voted in the 1992 1nd 1996 elections as I recall . Clinton won the 1996 election with a 42% minority vote ( I was one of those dummys that voted for him both times ) . If a little pipsqueak fro m texas hadn ' t run , Bush would have won going away . In the second election , OJ could have pooled more votes than Dole . SAo you should not feel all that comfortable about Clinton ' s mandate to rule . Secondly , many of us that did vote are ashamed that we did vote and will certainly look elsewhere in the next election . Clinton is shameful - and the worse part of it all , he won ' t admit he really did wrong . All of this mess could have been headed off months ago if he had told the truth . People make mistakes , but when you cover the mistake up - like Nixon did , you must pay the penalty . Its really that simple . In the mean time , Clinton ' s attack mentality ( coined by Carville ) is making many loyal Democrats really mad - including me and my WWII , Korean War golfing buddies . We also do not like draft dodgers . Clinton ' s form of Democratic Party mentality is terrible and must be stopped before ir self destructs . 035840 00001 thermopylae1 - 09 : 02pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36051 ) > 00002 dogbert85 1 / 14 / 99 8 : 49pm } 00003 *Did they let all the race-baiting lying sacks of leftist dung out of the asylum at the same time or are they now on-line ? > 00004 yippie7 1 / 14 / 99 8 : 51pm Hey genius , the guy slappin the monkey on the womens desks in the oval office is your hero . +++ 035841 00001 erqil - 09 : 03pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36050 ) } 00002 *Did somebody hear the presentations of the Managers this afternoon ? After the congressman from Wisconsin utterred the first word , I turned away . This man began his presentation with a quote something like nobody is above the law . Duh ! ! ! But when it comes to president impeachment , like it or not , Presidents seems above some laws . 035842 00001 taymar8326 - 09 : 07pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36050 ) > 00002 dogbert85 re ; - 07 : 09pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( # of 35789 ) } 00003 *The republicans only chance for redemption is to end this witchhunt quickly in the Senate , otherwise 2000 looms as their return to minority status . " Many repugs are members of " Clubs " and Orgainzations that are either racist , gay bashing or both . This is a matter of public record , not private opinion . Their outright hatred for those not like themselves is directly reponsible for many of the " hate " crimes committed in America . Keep up the good work repugs . " I read someone on these boards compare the far left liberal socialist movement with the far right christian movement . Neither are representitive of the majority in either party . They simply make the most noise . I agree completely . BTW it seems to me that the liberal left through their policy of discredit , ridicule , and ignore are the hate mongers in this crowd . Now . . . would I mong you ?
electorate shows little sign of abating . Truly , he WAS set up . . . and not admirably . But the smelly ooze of the Arkansas days threatened all along . . . from Red Bone , to McDougal , to Hubble , Foster , Brown , to Willey , m ' gosh what a stench . He got so accustomed to outpacing the stink he assumed he could seduce a naive employee in the workplace and no one could ( or would ) catch him or care . . . and that he ' d be able to lie if detected -- like always . But this time he was wrong . . . . Emerald City is slime central . . . and it goes both ways . And the sun will come up tomorrow . Leadership in the federal government is only important in times of great national duress . Thankfully this is not one of those times . . . although Clinton may yet let or prompt its occurence . Can you imagine Monica ' s reputation today if she hadn ' t kept the dress ? Piece . 035844 00001 searingtruth - 09 : 08pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36050 ) } 00002 *The Republican party stands bare naked before the world , its pious hypocrisy and disdain for democracy dripping from its tongue . > 00003 donkirk 1 / 14 / 99 8 : 44pm } 00004 *Awesome Donkirk . It sure is amazing what bad liars the Republican politicians are . Smells like desperation . 035845 00001 thermopylae1 - 09 : 09pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36050 ) > 00002 erqil 1 / 14 / 99 9 : 03pm } 00003 *Yo Erkel , it didn ' t make any sense the first time , the second time really sucked . 035846 00001 southerndeb - 09 : 10pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36050 ) } 00002 * " Hey , Boo . " Miss Jean Louise Finch I can ' t stand this server . A closing statement . I think a very good job was done today by all involved . I think the seriousness and gravity of the situation was felt by all involved except for the tequila shooter party held by Frank , Waters , Jackson-Lee , Conyers et al while they were watching the proceedings . A little anesthesia as it were ...... Goodnight everybody . 035847 00001 jolietjake1 - 09 : 12pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36050 ) > 00002 erqil 1 / 14 / 99 9 : 03pm } 00003 *Okey-doke , Erquil . Whatever . The feeble-minded are humorous in small doses , but now they are beginning to bore me . Good night all . 035848 00001 rglisson - 09 : 13pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36050 ) } 00002 *I don ' t understand . I am neither a Republican nor a Democrat - if anything I am a " constitutional " libertarian . I don ' t think anyone is " dancing in the streets " because of this shameful business . Certainly not anyone I know . There is far too much changing of the subject going on . There is absolutely no point in namecalling or attacking the prosecutor . The case managers are not on trial . If they have committed crimes , they should be prosecuted , but that has nothing to do with the question that ' s on the table now . I don ' t see how WJC can be excused because his testimony concerned a " private " matter . I was in court on Monday testifying as a witness . If I could lie with impunity because I thought the other side had some invidious motive , or was connected with someone whose politics I disliked , or just because I thought the case was no good , what would my oath be worth ? What would the trial be worth ? The judges might just as well close the courts and go home if that is to be the standard . +++ 035849 00001 svcarlson - 09 : 14pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36049 ) } 00002 * I thought Sensenbrenner looked like he was reading a list of charges in a very cold , unconvincing and artificial style . I have argued cases before , with a good record . As a presenter , I can sense when I am connecting , usually because I am saying things that inspire belief in the listener . This connection was sadly lacking in S ' s presentation . The most Sensenbrenner did was to reach , stretch really , to argue that if a party lies to other people in events that are brought to a case , that is obstructing justice . It ' s an intriguing idea , but not one I see the country ' s leading lawmakers spending much time on . The whole purpose of a trial is to get at the truth , not to punish all parties involved for their behavior leading up to trial . As I said , the purpose of a trial is a cause of action . If there ' s no valid cause of action , parties and judges can ' t just manufacture one of the interactions of the parties leading to the determination of facts and rulings of law . This is the kind of spinning that the Republicans have been doing for four years , and especially since they discovered a ) they didn ' t have a case in Whitewater and b ) they had Monica Lewinsky , which might provide a good chance to confuse and misled the public . What a bunch of losers . 035850 00001 taymar8326 - 09 : 15pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36049 ) > 00002 donkirk - re ; 08 : 44pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( #35823 of 35845 ) } 00003 *The Independent Counsel Statute is an insult to the Constitution . } 00004 * " House Republicans play fast and loose with facts in Senate impeachment presentation . . . . " } 00005 *The unmitigated balls . . . you make reference to republicans playing fast and loose with the truth ! Tell me Mr . Constitution . . . exactly what does [it] mean ? Your boy ' s don ' t ' wag the dog ' they shook it to death . 035851 00001 searingtruth - 09 : 16pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36049 ) } 00002 *The Republican party stands bare naked before the world , its pious hypocrisy and disdain for democracy dripping from its tongue . > 00003 persecution1 1 / 14 / 99 8 : 45pm } 00004 *It ' s curious to me to see how few of you people who have been obsessively labouring to " get " President Clinton are here tonight . This should be a night for all republican haters to be dancing in the streets celebrating the fruits of their venomous labour . } 00005 *No kidding . As I stated in my first post this evening , the Republicans presentation was dismal . The naked truth of their hollow charges was self evident . They even recognized this themselves , as evidenced by their constant statements for the need to " look at the whole picture " for a " pattern " of crime . In other words , we ain ' t got nothin ' , but if you bear with us we will lay out our case of innuendo and outrageously jumped to conclusions . Geez . I wouldn ' t be here if I were on their side either . 035852 00001 powerside1 - 09 : 17pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36049 ) } 00002 * " This country cannot afford to be materially rich and spiritually poor . . . . It reminds us of the importance of family . . and the duty we owe to each other . . . . let us all pledge by our devotion to God and family " BILL CLINTON , 10-30-96 > 00003 svcarlson 1 / 14 / 99 8 : 54pm } 00004 *Your condescending legal-speak about no " cause of action " is not only misplaced , but also simply wrong . } 00005 *The concept of " cause of action " applies only in civil cases , not in criminal cases . If an impeachment proceding can be analogized to any other legal proceeding , it would be most similar to a criminal trial . But , indeed , an impeachment trial is neither a civil nor a criminal action . Thus , all your high-flown language is just inapposite hot air stinking up the discussion . Here are the words you need to focus on : US CONSTITUIION , ARTICLE I , SECTION 2 : } 00006 * " The House of Representatives . . . shall have sole Power of Impeachment . " } 00007 *It doesn ' t say , " The House shall share the impeachment power with a few hundred wide-reared liberal academicians and book lawyers . " Don ' t need a pseudo-expert to figure that one out . 035853 00001 thermopylae1 - 09 : 17pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36049 ) > 00002 rglisson 1 / 14 / 99 9 : 13pm } 00003 *EXACTLY , and with that touch of sanity I bid you all goodnight ( well the right of center posters anyway ) ( G ) 035854 00001 dickmorr - 09 : 17pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36049 ) > 00002 persecution1 : } 00003 *Dancing in the streets ? Hardly . That is something party people do . Impeachment is a very serious process , and is nothing to shout about . } 00004 *The republican impeachment managers have shown a very compelling case today - I watched every last bit of it and was quite surprised by the obstruction of justice facts against the President . Everyone agrees the President committed perjury , but there is considerable evidence about obstruction also . The thought of Al Gore running this country is unpleasant so that is another reason why people aren ' t partying . Our Senators will have a very difficult job ahead of them if they are truely impartial with their votes . Based on what was pesented today , the President looks very bad and getting worse . Do you think the President lawyers can save the Prez ? So far , they have proven to be incompetant . 035855 00001 52081 - 09 : 17pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36049 ) } 00002 *mrclinton commited perjury when he said he was not paying attention to his lawyer who offered monica ' s false affidavit , this was a lie , the jones deposition shows him being very attentive when his lawyer said he did not have sex with monica 035856 00001 wombat2b - 09 : 19pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36049 ) } 00002 *Why can ' t the networks spice up this BORING TRIAL ? Please Mr Pool Cameraman , watching Mr Senseinbrenner sic , or whoever , for what seems like endless droning hours is torture . Scan the jury . Viewers want to see reaction shots . Are the Senators worried , pensive , titulated , asleep , flirting with pages , drinking out of paperbags . . . . . what , what are they doing ? 035857 00001 yippie7 - 09 : 20pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36049 ) > 00002 thermopylae1 - 09 : 02pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( #35840 of 35846 ) > 00003 dogbert85 1 / 14 / 99 8 : 49pm } 00004 *Did they let all the race-baiting lying sacks of leftist dung out of the asylum at the same time or are they now on-line ? > 00005 yippie7 1 / 14 / 99 8 : 51pm } 00006 *Hey genius , the guy slappin the monkey on the womens desks in the oval office is your hero . I forgive the President . At LEAST , He had already admitted that the relationship was wrong numerous time and NO Divorce . Hyde and barr never will be humanly enough to admit that they ' re wrong in their sexual relationship and is judging the President . They should go to hell ! +++ 035858 00001 dnr10 - 09 : 22pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36048 ) } 00002 * There is no doubt in any reasonable persons mind that Clinton is guilty of the Charges brought against him . Congress WILL do its job--they will answer to history not the polls that are a flash in the pan by comparison . Felonies are felonies no matter how they are spun by the guilty . 035859 00001 donkirk - 09 : 23pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36048 ) } 00002 *The Independent Counsel Statute is an insult to the Constitution . > 00003 RE : searingtruth 1 / 14 / 99 9 : 08pm } 00004 *The House case is so incredibly weak , I am really surprised that it has brought them this far . Wait until next Monday , Tuesday and Wednesday ( or maybe only Monday and Wednesday , if the President ' s lawyers take Tuesday off in deference to the State of the Union Address ) . They will absolutely bury these pathetic , trumped-up allegations . tna1pada ' s analysis of the House Manager ' s brief and that of the President ' s legal team was really informative . Stay tuned . It ' s really funny to see these Republicans trying to play King of the Mountain as they stand on their molehill . 035860 00001 bobby58 - 09 : 27pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36048 ) } 00002 *WHY DO THE PEOPLE IN CONGRESS HATE CLINTON SO BAD - AND THE WORKING PEOPLE LOVE HIM 035861 00001 yippie7 - 09 : 28pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36048 ) > 00002 dnr10 - 09 : 22pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( #35858 of 35858 ) } 00003 *There is no doubt in any reasonable persons mind that Clinton is guilty of the Charges brought against him . Congress WILL do its job--they will answer to history not the polls that are a flash in the pan by comparison . Felonies are felonies no matter how they are spun by the guilty . What if the polls were reverse and favoring the white wing republican so called house managers ? You would jump for joy and say " SEE , LOOK at the POLLS ! 035862 00001 52081 - 09 : 28pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36048 ) } 00002 *Mr . Clinton is insulting the intelligence of the American people . He asked the question it depends on what the definition of is , ( is ) ? He is trying to hoodwink us by using a play on words . He should be found guilty when the impeachment trial is over , because he allowed his laywer ( Robert Bennett ) to submit Ms . Lewinsky ' s false affidavit when he knew it was full of lies . He made his laywer look like a fool . 035863 00001 butler5555 - 09 : 28pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36048 ) } 00002 *We have the facts related to the actions by the President and others ; and we have the connective tissue . There was plenty of connective tissue weaved by the GOP managers . But it depends so much on some giant leaps of faith , I don ' t think it will be enough to overcome the boredom factor . Many know the facts and find it difficult to accept the fabric in which the managers have woven . It will be the White House ' s turn to weave their web around the facts . I expect they ' ll be equally boring . The burden of the GOP is to make their case and to make it interesting enough so that a great many people will find it convincing and make it known to their senators . Sounds like an impossible quest ; these folks are kind of personally boring . You wouldn ' t invite them to your party to liven things up . Will the nets interrupt the soaps , Gerry , and Oprah again tomorrow ? 035864 00001 52081 - 09 : 29pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36048 ) } 00002 *Mr . Clinton is insulting the intelligence of the American people . He asked the question it depends on what the definition of is , ( is ) ? He is trying to hoodwink us by using a play on words . He should be found guilty when the impeachment trial is over , because he allowed his laywer ( Robert Bennett ) to submit Ms . Lewinsky ' s false affidavit when he knew it was full of lies . He made his laywer look like a fool . 035865 00001 svcarlson - 09 : 30pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36048 ) > 00002 power - } 00003 *I find your argument that the structure of a criminal proceeding is more akin to impeachment than a civil trial to be extremely weak . In a criminal trial , only those actions which are clearly contemplated by a state are punishable by stated penalties . None of those elements , obviously , are present in this impeachment . A civil trial structure is much more appropriate , and I think we all know it . A cause of action is stated by the phrase high crimes and misdemeanours , with all its legislative intent . From this we are to determine if a cause of the action of impeachment can be found . All this rigamarole about depriving Paula Jones of a fair trial has nothing to do with impeachment . She can get justice through the courts , and apparently has . Impeachment is not Ms . Jones ' affair . It is ours , powerside , yours and mine . And your argument to impeach my President is indeed just so much hot air . 035866 00001 donkirk - 09 : 31pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36048 ) } 00002 *The Independent Counsel Statute is an insult to the Constitution . } 00003 *RE : taymar8326 1 / 14 / 99 9 : 15pm Follow the link , Doofus , and see that
it is the Associated Press which documents the Republicans ' factual inaccuracies , not me . duh* ( What ' s this you keep screaming about not killing the messenger ? ? ? ) 035867 00001 taymar8326 - 09 : 33pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36048 ) > 00002 donkirk - 09 : 23pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( #35859 of 35859 ) } 00003 *The Independent Counsel Statute is an insult to the Constitution . } 00004 * " Wait until next Monday , Tuesday and Wednesday ( or maybe only Monday and Wednesday , if the President ' s lawyers take Tuesday off in deference to the State of the Union Address ) . They will absolutely bury these pathetic , trumped-up allegations . " } 00005 *No . . . I don ' t think so . The senate right or left , save the socialist factions have no more stomach for the man . If they vote their conscience and put partisanship aside your boy is toast . No pension , no Hillary [rats usually desert sinking ships] , no legacy save the outcome of the criminal prosecution . } 00006 * " tna1pada ' s analysis of the House Manager ' s brief and that of the President ' s legal team was really informative . Stay tuned . " } 00007 *More from the attorney turned gardener . Curious . To much fertilizer perhaps . } 00008 * " It ' s really funny to see these Republicans trying to play King of the Mountain as they stand on their molehill . " } 00009 *Molehill ? Just the tip of the iceberg . Best is yet to come ! +++ 035868 00001 searingtruth - 09 : 33pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36048 ) } 00002 *The Republican party stands bare naked before the world , its pious hypocrisy and disdain for democracy dripping from its tongue . > 00003 southerndeb 1 / 14 / 99 8 : 53pm } 00004 *Searingtruth . . . No matter how you look at the matter , Clinton interfered with the justice system . . . whether it was a bogus suit or not . He allowed another witness to file a false affadavit , and then lied that yes the affadavit was true . Even Bennett has admitted as much by his letter to Judge Wright . At the time the affadavit was filed , nobody knew the suit would go to appeal did they ? He could not have known whether the false testimony would have helped or not . Point is , he knowingly allowed it to be entered in as evidence . He f*cked the justice system because he thought he was above it Searingtruth . . . and for that alone he should be jailed . } 00005 *Huh ? . He didn ' t commit perjury , he just outsmarted the VRWC . Even if he had lied or committed perjury , inflated assertions that this would somehow affect the justice system or the " rule of law " are ludicrous . No one , except for the VRWC and their supporters , has ever fallen for any of this pious , hypocritical , and vehement rhetoric . It ' s interesting that you don ' t care if Paula Jones brought a false suit against the President , since this would also be illegal , and would have been the first crime . It ' s also interesting that none of the right wing supporters seem to mind that Ken Starr used known illegal evidence , the illegal Linda Tripp recordings , in his pursuit of the President . It seems that violations of morality and law are very subjective to the right wing . If any of them do it , it ' s justifiable . If anyone else does it , they have destroyed the " rule of law " . This is exactly why the Republican party has no credibility anymore . Look at all the lies they told just today during their presentation . Honestly , it was pathetic . 035869 00001 gensec - 09 : 35pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36048 ) } 00002 * " I ' m out on bail the check is in the mail , They can sentence me to life but I won ' t go to jail " - beastie boys " Time to Get Ill " > 00003 yippie7 1 / 14 / 99 9 : 20pm : } 00004 * I forgive the President . At LEAST , He had already admitted that the relationship was wrong numerous time and NO Divorce . } 00005 *Forgiving Bill for letting Monica have sex with him while he wasn ' t have sex with Monica is Hillary ' s business , not the Senate ' s business or mine . ( We can assume she will . After all these years , the First Doormat must surely be used to it . ) The Senate ' s business is Bill ' s crimes , not his frolics . } 00006 *Hyde and barr never will be humanly enough to admit that they ' re wrong in their sexual relationship and is judging the President . They should go to hell ! Again not my business ; I think that one ' s in God ' s jurisdiction . We have a government of laws , not a theocracy ( thank God ) , so dealing with violations of the law , not " sins against God " , is the Government ' s business . 035870 00001 dickmorr - 09 : 35pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36048 ) > 00002 bobby58 : } 00003 *Working people love him ? Not this old boy and all of my over 50 year buddies and relatives . Clinton has permitted the EEOC to permit all kinds of age , race , sex discrimination and he never speaks up against any of it . } 00004 *The white and blue collar people over 50 are dead meat . That is another reason why we dislike the turkey so much . You to will find out when you reach 50 and a week later you get your pink slip . Talk to the poor people in Flint michigan that worked their entire lives on an assembly line and ask them how much they like ) dislike ) the President . Ask the tomato pickers in Florida and Texas how much the President has done for them ? Try nothing . 035871 00001 taymar8326 - 09 : 38pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36048 ) > 00002 donkirk - 09 : 31pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( #35866 of 35867 ) } 00003 *The Independent Counsel Statute is an insult to the Constitution . RE : taymar8326 1 / 14 / 99 9 : 15pm " Follow the link , Doofus , and see that it is the Associated Press which documents the Republicans ' factual inaccuracies , not me . " } 00004 *I read the link ' dick head ' . You choose to use it to support of your lame argument in defense of the first felon not me . 035872 00001 powerside1 - 09 : 41pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36048 ) } 00002 * " This country cannot afford to be materially rich and spiritually poor . . . . It reminds us of the importance of family . . and the duty we owe to each other . . . . let us all pledge by our devotion to God and family " BILL CLINTON , 10-30-96 > 00003 svcarlson 1 / 14 / 99 9 : 14pm } 00004 *Yes , as always , you liberal residents of the brave new world prefer style over substance . Indeed , you are incapable of seeing substance--unless you make that all-important " connection " with your interlocutor . How touchy-feely . I see why you guys fall for that feel-your-pain crap . Instead , how about giving a try to making a connection with the truth ? For your improvement in that regard , focus your attention on a small but telling point that was brough out in today ' s proceedings and illustrates well how this president lacks a decent respect for truth : On November 15 , 1995 , Clinton and Lewinsky exchanged a few brief words for the first time . This was also the very first time they had ever met . Within a few hours of moment Bill Clinton first learned Monica ' s name , they had their first sexual encounter . Yet in his prepared grand jury statement , the president said that he was sorry that a relationship " that began in friendship came to include " sexual contact . Obviously , this relationship did not " begin in friendship , " unless you want to put a very trivial meaning on the concept of friendship ( which would not surprise me given the moral shallowness of Clinton ' s defenders ) . The relationship began with sex . So why would the president try to weave this " began in frienship " spin on the explantion of his conduct ? The answer is obvious : Clinton uses the " began in friendship " spin because he wants to steal the undeserved sympathy of those good souls who understand how the true feelings of warm friendship can sometimes translate into a more armorous passion . He uses the " began in friendship " spin to try to dignify and veil what can only be characterized as the most tawdry kind of sexual expediency . This is but a small snippet of a large and revolting picture . But this small bit of the story reveals exactly the kind of thought process that clouds the moral lights of this man whom you would defend . +++ 035873 00001 rodney54 - 09 : 42pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36048 ) } 00002 * BELTWAY RUMORS : Monica will take the Fifth if supoened by the Prosecution . Bill AND Hillary will voluntarily testify as witnesses for the Defense . Comments ? 035874 00001 tolbach1 - 09 : 42pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36048 ) > 00002 52081 } 00003 *Lawyers don ' t need any help looking like fools . They do it gladly , as long as you pay them , like any prostitute . For further proof , you can look at the postings here of svcarlson . . . > 00004 dnr10 } 00005 *Would like to think you ' re correct about the Senate doing its duty , but does anyone believe the vote will be anything but partisan ? Have you seen Harkins ' statements ? Do you think Schumer suddenly transformed himself from a nasty , scheming , ideologically pure Socialist when he moved from the House to the Senate ? Do you think Kennedy will be impartial ( or sober ) ? No way . 035875 00001 gensec - 09 : 43pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36048 ) } 00002 * " I ' m out on bail the check is in the mail , They can sentence me to life but I won ' t go to jail " - beastie boys " Time to Get Ill " > 00003 searingtruth 1 / 14 / 99 9 : 33pm : } 00004 *It ' s also interesting that none of the right wing supporters seem to mind that Ken Starr used known illegal evidence , the illegal Linda Tripp recordings , in his pursuit of the President . } 00005 *There ' s no legal problem or policy against that . If one person ' s criminal behavior unearths evidence against another criminal , and law enforcement gets a hold of it later , that evidence is perfectly admissable in court . It ' s only when evidence is acquired through a violation of law by law enforcement officers that it ' s inadmissable , and the tapes that were made by Ken ' s investigators were authorized by a court order . 035876 00001 artriot - 09 : 46pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36048 ) } 00002 *Political forums are like throwing 666 chainsaws together at high speed . Scallywag ' s and Carpetbager ' s , what a joke . If those nut that put there whole political life on the line , if they just knew what " Fools " they are . It is sad , and to fall in political quicksand just because the Republican hardliners , like Hyde , If he jumped off a cliff they would jump also . Ok all you Right Wingers , how long does it take to get egg of your face ? Jump in here and let the Democrats chew on your leg a while . We want be to harsh on y ' a , If you will just tell us how wrong you are . Sucks don ' t it ? 035877 00001 svcarlson - 09 : 48pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36048 ) } 00002 * So what don ' t you like , Powerside , the President ' s style or the substance of these so-called impeachable offenses ? I don ' t know if what is in the referral is true or what they mean by a few hours or what they mean by sexual encounter . But I suppose you do ? I see where you ' re going with this , but first we ' re appalled at the sexual contact by Monica Lewinsky , then we ' re appalled that the President doesn ' t characterize it as a sexual relationship or affair ( would you so characterize what you ' ve just described ? ) and now we ' re appalled that the events happened too fast . Well , be appalled if you want , that ' s your right . But do you truly believe you ' re describing an impeachable cause of action ? I can ' t believe you do . 035878 00001 odin99 - 09 : 50pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36048 ) > 00002 searingtruth - 09 : 33pm } 00003 * " He ( Clinton ) didn ' t commit perjury , he just outsmarted the VRWC . " } 00004 * He also appears to have outsmarted you and the rest of the VLWC ( Vast Left Wing Coverup ) . } 00005 * " Even if he had lied or committed perjury , inflated assertions that this would somehow affect the justice system or the " rule of law " are ludicrous . " } 00006 *Not as ludicrous as those of you on the Left who see no problem with the Chief Law Enforcement Officer in America lying under oath before a Federal Grand Jury . By the way , that ' s FELONY PERJURY . . . and impeachable " high crime " . } 00007 * " No one , except for the VRWC and their supporters , has ever fallen for any of this pious , hypocritical , and vehement rhetoric . " } 00008 *You Vast Left Wing Cover-uppers , the so-called and self-styled champion of Womens ' Rights and the downtrodden , get in bed with Larry Flynt and Bill Clinton himself , two of the most abusive sex perverts and harassers in the world , and you call US hypocritical . Yyyyyyikes ! Just how many corners does your mouth have anyway ? } 00009 * " It ' s interesting that you don ' t care if Paula Jones brought a false suit against the President " } 00010 *Just as you donn ' t seem to care that Sexual Harassment is a crime these days . > 00011 yippie7 - 9 : 20pm : } 00012 *Forgiving Bill for letting Monica have sex with him while he wasn ' t have sex with Monica is Hillary ' s business , not the Senate ' s business or mine . " It became our business the moment he used our Oval Office and our federally employed intern for sexual purposes , then lied about it under oath before a Federal Grand Jury . You ' re too late , diversions and obfuscations won ' t help him . +++ 035879 00001 roger660 - 09 : 51pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36046 ) } 00002 *There were several points along the way where this travesty should have been halted : Starr should have been forced to stop after the Whitewater , Filegate , Travelgate etc . investigations failed to find wrongdoing . The U . S . Supreme Court should not have allowed Paula Jones to continue with a civil suit against a sitting president . Janet Reno should not have given Starr permission to investigate the Lewinski relationship . And then the House Judiciary Committee and the House should have refused to approve articles of impeachment . Now , the Senate should vote for dismissal as soon as possible . 035880 00001 dnr10 - 09 : 51pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36046 ) > 00002 yippie7 - 09 : 28pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( #35861 of 35872 } 00003 *Not really , because I don ' t have much faith in polls . If they are so good why don ' t use them instead of making everybody go out and vote . If polls were used to make all of our national decisions-- I doubt our society would benefit . ie where would civil rights be today if we went by the polls in the 60 ' s and 70 ' s . 035881 00001 dickmorr - 09 : 52pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36046 ) } 00002 *You say the President ' s ; awyers will blow ( sic ) the evidense presented by the Republican impeachment managers out of the water ? We shall see . They were given the opportunity to present witnesses in the House and all they brought in were stupes . If they sit there and argue that the President did commit perjury and slightly obstructed justice ( it was only sex ) and don ' t call witnesses , then they have not freed the President from the charges . The American public will consider the judicial process a sham and the Presidency will be slighted to approving the number of waste paper baskets in the third floor of the White House . Carville will then take over the running of the United States government . Great scenerio . We are all waiting with baited breaths for the President ' s lawyers to free him at last from these right wing charges . 035882 00001 searingtruth - 09 : 54pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36046 ) } 00002 *The Republican party stands bare naked before the world , its pious hypocrisy and disdain for democracy dripping from its tongue . > 00003 donkirk 1 / 14 / 99 9 : 23pm } 00004 * . . . Wait until next Monday , Tuesday and Wednesday ( or maybe only Monday and Wednesday , if the President ' s lawyers take Tuesday off in deference to the State of the Union Address ) . They will absolutely bury these pathetic , trumped-up allegations . . . . } 00005 *No kidding . It ' s going to be absolute murder . Especially after all the bald faced lies they told today . NYT Moderator What ' s with the server ? . It ' s been like this for a week now . 035883 00001 donkirk - 09 : 57pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36046 ) } 00002 * The Independent Counsel Statute is an insult to the Constitution . > 00003 RE : taymar8326 1 / 14 / 99 9 : 33pm } 00004 *You still don ' t have a clue . Nearly every one of those 100 United States Senators already knows exactly how he / she will vote at the end of this charade . And there are NOT 67 of them who will vote to convict the President and remove him from office . 035884 00001 newpress - 09 : 59pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36046 ) } 00002 *Hey Liberals , Counted the African American faces on the Democratic side of the Senate aisle lately ? 035885 00001 searingtruth - 10 : 05pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36046 ) } 00002 *The Republican party stands bare naked before the world , its pious hypocrisy and disdain for democracy dripping from its tongue . > 00003 taymar8326 1 / 14 / 99 9 : 33pm } 00004 * . . . Molehill ? Just the tip of the iceberg . Best is yet to come ! } 00005 *Now where have we heard this before ? . Wolf ! , Wolf ! , Wolf ! . 035886 00001 dogbert85 - 10 : 06pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36046 ) } 00002 *The republicans only chance for redemption is to end this witchhunt quickly in the Senate , otherwise 2000 looms as their return to minority status . That BC will be acquitted is certain . This impeachment will be just a footnote of nasty partisan politics in the history books . Future generations will wonder how an affair coverup could ever have been trumped up to impeachment . Only we living thru it know the obseesion and hatred that have played such a role in this witchhunt . Power to the people . 035887 00001 jimmie50 - 10 : 06pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36046 ) > 00002 rodney54 - 09 : 42pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( #35873 of 35876 ) } 00003 *BELTWAY RUMORS : Monica will take the Fifth if supoened by the Prosecution . Bill AND Hillary will voluntarily testify as witnesses for the Defense . Comments ? } 00004 *Monica - has immunity - can ' t take the 5th . Hillary - What could she testify to ? Not likely . Bill - Only if things get desperate - he ' s still the odds on favorite . 035888 00001 powerside1 - 10 : 09pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36046 ) } 00002 * " This country cannot afford to be materially rich and spiritually poor . . . . It reminds us of the importance of family . . and the duty we owe to each other . . . . let us all pledge by our devotion to God and family " BILL CLINTON , 10-30-96 I find your argument that the structure of a criminal proceeding is more akin to impeachment than a civil trial to be extremely weak . ( 1 ) It is weak , but it ' s not my argument . Read more closely . The point you miss that it is not closely analogous to either . All this rigamarole about depriving Paula Jones of a fair trial has nothing to do with impeachment . You think that unlawfully depriving a citizen of her civil rights is not impeachable ? But where would draw the line ? Would it also be unimpeachable to unlawfully and maliciously deprive a citizen of her civil right to life and liberty , so long as it is a " private matter " ? I think that all such unlawful and malicious deprivations of civil rights are not only impeachable , but also tyranical : when government officers use their state power , as Clinton did in this case , to oppress a private citizen . She can get justice through the courts , and apparently has . Ms . Jones succeeded in her civil action only because Clinton ' s lies were exposed . Thank the special counsel for that ! Do you really think Clinton would have settled with Jones otherwise ? +++ 035889 00001 donkirk - 10 : 10pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36046 ) } 00002 *The Independent Counsel Statute is an insult to the Constitution . > 00003 RE : gensec 1 / 14 / 99 9 : 43pm } 00004 *You are correct , of course , that the exclusionary rule does not apply to evidence obtained illegally by private citizens , unless they are acting at the direction of law enforcement officials . But " . . . the tapes that were made by Ken ' s investigators were authorized by a court order . " I would appreciate some documentation to back up that assertion . Linda Tripp was wired by the FBI and tape-recorded her conversation with Monica Lewinsky on January 13 , 1998 , but Starr ' s jurisdiction was not expanded to include the Lewinsky matter until January 16 , 1998 . How could any Court authorize a tape-recording before Starr had authority to investigate Lewinsky ? ? ? 035890 00001 wmrohr - 10 : 11pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36046 ) } 00002 *Ya know what ? I think that the reason the American people are reluctant to remove the President from office is that they can identify with his unwillingness to disclose the details of his private matters . The vehicle doesn ' t matter in maintaining privacy . The concealing of his relationship with Monica Lewinsky was OK . The abuse of judical power through asking the President questions , soley to embarass or entrap him into " perjured " testimony is not acceptable to three quarters of the American people when there was no underlying crime hidden by the testimony . It may be time to reign in the excesses of the judicial process . 035891 00001 kapit - 10 : 13pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36046 ) }
00002 *Charles Schumer said it well today . These guys from the House keep saying the same things over and over again , hoping that will make a difference in people ' s opinions . It won ' t . The public already know exactly what Clinton did . And yet we think that worst for this nation has been done by the Republicans , not by the President . 035892 00001 powerside1 - 10 : 14pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36046 ) } 00002 * " This country cannot afford to be materially rich and spiritually poor . . . . It reminds us of the importance of family . . and the duty we owe to each other . . . . let us all pledge by our devotion to God and family " BILL CLINTON , 10-30-96 > 00003 gensec 1 / 14 / 99 9 : 43pm } 00004 * There ' s no legal problem or policy against that . If one person ' s criminal behavior unearths evidence against another criminal , and law enforcement gets a hold of it later , that evidence is perfectly admissable in court . It ' s only when evidence is acquired through a violation of law by law enforcement officers that it ' s inadmissable , and the tapes that were made by Ken ' s investigators were authorized by a court order . } 00005 *Thank you so much for helping to put to rest another bit of deception that is constantly being bandied about by the Clinton defenders . By their pathetic logic , if a bank-robber ' s loot were stolen by another criminal , who then got caught with the cash , the money could not be used as evidence against the bank-robber because it was " illegally obtained " ! Such logic well explains how searingtruth so quickly and easily swallows the thinest of spin ejaculated from vile organs of this White House . 035893 00001 pgibeau - 10 : 19pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36046 ) This forum gives credibility to the term " STUPID AMERICANS " 035894 00001 jova99 - 10 : 20pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36046 ) } 00002 * To answer the main question , YES - Bill Clinton should be removed from office . He has committed perjury , obstruction of justice and abuse of power . The evidence is overwhelming . but he will not be removed because the Senate
does not have the courage to do what is right , and nobody wants to see Al Gore as president . This trial will serve as a form of censure and we will be done with it next month . 035895 00001 pgibeau - 10 : 22pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36046 ) } 00002 *This forum gives credibility to the term " STUPID AMERICANS " 035896 00001 searingtruth - 10 : 22pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36046 ) } 00002 * The Republican party stands bare naked before the world , its pious hypocrisy and disdain for democracy dripping from its tongue . > 00003 powerside1 1 / 14 / 99 9 : 41pm } 00004 *Obviously , this relationship did not " begin in friendship , " unless you want to put a very trivial meaning on the concept of friendship ( which would not surprise me given the moral shallowness of Clinton ' s defenders ) . The relationship began with sex . } 00005 *Well , maybe he does want to put a very trivial meaning on the concept of friendship in this case . So what ? . } 00006 *So why would the president try to weave this " began in frienship " spin on the explantion of his conduct ? The answer is obvious : Clinton uses the " began in friendship " spin because he wants to steal the undeserved sympathy of those good souls who understand how the true feelings of warm friendship can sometimes translate into a more armorous passion . } 00007 *Nobody , except the VRWC , cares about the Presidents sexual relationships . We don ' t care how they started , how they ended , etc . , etc . , etc . It does not affect the way we good souls view the President . That ' s just the reality of our existence . } 00008 *He uses the " began in friendship " spin to try to dignify and veil what can only be characterized as the most tawdry kind of sexual expediency . } 00009 *Oh please . It was a perfectly normal relationship between two consenting adults . } 00010 *This is but a small snippet of a large and revolting picture . } 00011 *No kidding . } 00012 *But this small bit of the story reveals exactly the kind of thought process that clouds the moral lights of this man whom you would defend . } 00013 *Wow . You have to be joking . +++ 035897 00001 dogbert85 - 10 : 24pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36046 ) } 00002 *The republicans only chance for redemption is to end this witchhunt quickly in the Senate , otherwise 2000 looms as their return to minority status . George Bush Jr . is a member of racist and gay-bashing RW " clubs " . This makes him imminently qualified to be the standard bearer for the repugs in 2000 . LOL 035898 00001 donkirk - 10 : 24pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36046 ) } 00002 *The Independent Counsel Statute is an insult to the Constitution . > 00003 RE : powerside1 1 / 14 / 99 10 : 09pm } 00004 *Some would disagree that Ms . Jones ' civil action " succeeded , " since it was summarily dismissed as being " without merit . " The end result was that Paula Jones got a free nosejob and some lawyers got nearly a million bucks . And the nation was put through a partisan impeachment process by a bunch of dimwit Republicans . 035899 00001 tna1pada3 - 10 : 27pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36046 ) } 00002 * " It ain ' t over til it ' s over " Hi ! My name is Mr . Republican ! Please shoot me ! No , really ! Just shoot me ! Shotgun or rifle , a head-shot suits me ; but just shoot me ! Thanks . Oh , yeah ; about that impeachment thing ! Just shoot me ! 035900 00001 padu329 - 10 : 27pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36046 ) > 00002 wmrohr----} 00003 *Precisely ! If the private sexual conduct of elected officials is going to be fair game for future independent counsels , then we are in for a soap opera without end ...... forget social security reform , campaign finance reform and all the rest of it ...... which is exactly what the GOP is hoping for . Their lack of a viable political agenda is at the bottom of this . 035901 00001 jolietjake1 - 10 : 29pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36046 ) > 00002 donkirk 1 / 14 / 99 9 : 57pm } 00003 *How in the heck do you know that DonKirk ? Perhaps one of the Dem Senators told you ? Good to see tha at least an intelligent lefty is on , though . . . ; ) 035902 00001 2ncrdr - 10 : 29pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36046 ) } 00002 *This morning while I was CNNing , I noticed a clip featuring Henry Hyde , comic trainer of that pack of 13 dogs baying at the President . Anyway , the clip showed Henry saying in the case featuring the prominent rightwinger Col Oliver North , that everyone should obey the law , but that sometimes there were more important considerations . ( Remind anyone of the " higher law " argument in preCivil War United States ) . He seems to be saying something different now . Hyde , as featured in this clip , went on to say whine about how " onerous " his persecution of the president was ( no misspelling back there ) , and that how he ' d gladly trade in the cares and burdens of his office for a Hershey Bar . I ' d love to give him one , and I think millions of Americans would love to simply deluge him . Not that he needs anything with lots of calories . Hopefully in a few weeks , he and the comic troupe will have moved on , and we can all read the latest revelations concerning Bob Barr in peace and quiet . 035903 00001 albert-armagh1 - 10 : 31pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36046 ) } 00002 *``Top 10 Occupations to Be Grateful Kenneth Starr Doesn ' t Practice ' ' 10 . Heart surgeon : KS : ``The operation was a complete success ; the Patient ? Uh , I ' m sorry to have to tell you this . . . ' ' 09 . Hostage Rescue Team Leader : KS : Good News : All the `terrorists ' are dead ; Hostages ? Oh yeah , them too . ' ' 08 . ? ? ? 07 . ? ? ? etc . 035904 00001 svcarlson - 10 : 31pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36046 ) > 00002 Wmrohr , } 00003 *right , Americans do not think the President ' s efforts to protect his privacy are a legitimate cause of action giving rise to impeachment . DonKirk , agreed . I just said that the courts are there to give Paula Jones justice , and I think they did , when her case was dismissed on the merits . Otherwise she could have appealed . When she settled , that was through the courts , too , not through Congress . And I see it as the inevitable result of the political blackmail of Linda Tripp , Nixon agent Lucianne Goldberg , and the new Joe McCarthy , Ken Starr . 035905 00001 donkirk - 10 : 35pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36046 ) } 00002 *The Independent Counsel Statute is an insult to the Constitution . > 00003 RE : tna1pada3 1 / 14 / 99 10 : 27pm } 00004 *Sorry , all firearms are in use at the time , shooting other Republicans in the feet in rapid-fire order . > 00005 RE : jolietjake1 1 / 14 / 99 10 : 29pm } 00006 *Hi , Sweeney . Go to the Washington Post document files . You ' ll find Reno ' s petition to the three-jude special division , dated January 16th . Starr ' s testimony before the House Judiciary Committee is clear that Tripp was wired by the FBI and recorded her luncheon with Lewinsky on January 13th -three days before his jurisdiction was expanded to include an investigation into Lewinsky ' s statement on the Tripp telephone tapes that she intended to lie in her deposition in the Jones matter . Again , the transcripts of the House Judiciary Committee hearings prove this . Use the search engine on the Washington Post website . +++ 035907 00001 searingtruth - 10 : 38pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36046 ) } 00002 *The Republican party stands bare naked before the world , its pious hypocrisy and disdain for democracy dripping from its tongue . > 00003 powerside1 1 / 14 / 99 10 : 14pm } 00004 * . . . Such logic well explains how searingtruth so quickly and easily swallows the thinest of spin ejaculated from vile organs of this White House . } 00005 *Please see Donkirk ' s excellent response ( thanks my friend ) . > 00006 donkirk 1 / 14 / 99 10 : 10pm 035908 00001 donkirk - 10 : 40pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36046 ) The Independent Counsel Statute is an insult to the Constitution . > 00002 RE : svcarlson 1 / 14 / 99 10 : 31pm } 00003 *I ' m a bit confused . Paula Jones did appeal Judge Wright ' s summary dismissal of her action against Clinton . That appeal was pending before the Eighth Circuit Appeals Court when Jones and Clinton reached a settlement on November 8th ( ? ) . Wish I knew who Jones ' benefactor is who picked up the $8 , 000+ tab for her rhinoplasty . Perhaps his initials are RMS ? ? ? 035909 00001 tna1pada3 - 10 : 41pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36046 ) } 00002 * " It ain ' t over til it ' s over " Please ! I ' m a republican ! Just shoot me ! 035910 00001 wombat2b - 10 : 42pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36046 ) } 00002 *Hey Mr Republican . . . . . I suggest you pay a visit to the Gun Control Forum . DEFCON4 and the boys finish cleaning their weapons right about now and always crave a little target practice before turning in . 035911 00001 powerside1 - 10 : 44pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36046 ) } 00002 * " This country cannot afford to be materially rich and spiritually poor . . . . It reminds us of the importance of family . . and the duty we owe to each other . . . . let us all pledge by our devotion to God and family " BILL CLINTON , 10-30-96 > 00003 donkirk 1 / 14 / 99 9 : 57pm } 00004 *Nearly every one of those 100 United States Senators already knows exactly how he / she will vote at the end of this charade . And there are NOT 67 of them who will vote to convict the President and remove him from office . } 00005 *It ain ' t over ' til it ' s over ( and it ain ' t over ) . You may be right .
But then again , you may be wrong . I have some faith that the Senators take seriously their oath to do impartial justice , and doing so , will approach the case with open minds and make themselves amenable to rational argument from all sides of the issue . To call it a charade is an insult to the Senate . I also am optimistic ( and naive ? ) enough to think that the Senators will be influenced not only by the presentation of the evidence ( which , though it may be repetitive of what is already known , nonetheless has not been presented to them in this concentrated manner until now ) and optimistic that the Senators will be influenced by the arguments and deliberations they share with each other at the end of the presentation of the evidence . Therefore , I would hesitate to predict how they will vote after hearing the evidence and engaging each other in sober deliberation . Though I personally have come to the conclusion that Clinton should be removed ( largely because of his conduct after January 26 , 1998 ) , that decision is not mine to make . I will respect the decision of the Senate . 035912 00001 svcarlson - 10 : 46pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36046 ) } 00002 *Sure , > 00003 Akbert - } 00004 *they each injected themselves in the Paula Jones private civil matter with knowledge of a private inappropriate relationship the President had had with Monica Lewinsky . They used this knowledge to try to blackmail the President into making some misstep so they could destroy his Presidency . Is this somehow vague and ambiguous ? It seems so obvious to anyone who cared to pay attention . 035913 00001 donkirk - 10 : 47pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 35922 ) } donkirk - 10 : 47pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36046 ) } 00002 *The Independent Counsel Statute is an insult to the Constitution . > *The Independent Counsel Statute is an insult to the Constitution . > 00003 RE : tna1pada3 1 / 14 / 99 10 : 41pm } RE : tna1pada3 1 / 14 / 99 10 : 41pm } 00004 * " In responding to my favorable comment regarding your excellent analysis of the House Manager ' s brief vis-a-vis the President ' s lawyers ' brief , Taymar referred to you an hour or so as a " lawyer turned gardner . Curious . Too much fertilizer . " Or words to that effect . " } *In responding to my favorable comment regarding your excellent analysis of the House Manager ' s brief vis-a-vis the President ' s lawyers ' brief , Taymar referred to you an hour or so as a " lawyer turned gardner . Curious . Too much fertilizer . " Or words to that effect . Just wanted you to know the low esteem in which you are held by yet another member of the " get-Clinton " gang . I know you are totally , absolutely crushed . *that ' s a big grin on my face . * 00005 *Kudo ' s Mr . Kirk your quote was quite accurate , thank you . Your position as chief of the forum police squad is secure . BTW , I see you missed a spot on ' ada ' s ' boots , get to it kid . 035914 00001 tna1pada3 - 10 : 49pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36046 ) } 00002 * " It ain ' t over til it ' s over " DEFCON4 and the boys Black powder isn ' t enough . . . blunderbusses . . .
035917 00001 donkirk - 10 : 50pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36046 ) } 00002 *The Independent Counsel Statute is an insult to the Constitution . It is strange , is it not , that there are so few members of hte dark side in here this evening . One would think they would be overjoyed at the fine show put on today in the Senate chamber by the House Managers . It ' s funny , though : I didn ' t hear the Chief Justice , in his Gilbert & Sullivan operetta costume , singing " Send in the Clowns " before the Republicans ' entrance . Maybe I was in the latrine . 035918 00001 powerside1 - 10 : 51pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36046 ) } 00002 * " This country cannot afford to be materially rich and spiritually poor . . . . It reminds us of the importance of family . . and the duty we owe to each other . . . . let us all pledge by our devotion to God and family " BILL CLINTON , 10-30-96 > 00003 searingtruth 1 / 14 / 99 10 : 22pm } 00004 *Well , maybe he does want to put a very trivial meaning on the concept of friendship in this case . So what ? . } 00005 * " So what ? " That is the answer the liberal residents of this brave new world give to every trivialization of every priceless moral concept : Friendship : So what ? Truth : So what ? Self-respect : So what ? Respect for women : So what ? But you think you save your soul with the words " in this case , " as chanted by the " situational ethicist " as he excuses himself one more time for the one-thousandth time . The moral midget does not realize " this case " starts the moment one falls into this life and only ends with one ' s departure . It was a perfectly normal relationship between two consenting adults Please forward that observation to Hillary and Chelsea , who must find it very comforting ! Don ' t get me wrong : I do not quibble with your use of " normal " as to the mechanics of the relationship ( the cigar offends me not at all ) . But it hardly seems " normal " to me that a married man of more than fifty--who happens to be the president--would risk not only his family happiness , but his political goals , for a tawdry tryst with a spacey girl half his age . . . unless , you include in the meaning of " normal " all the unfortunate events which happen too often these days . By that definition , I guess , child abuse is " normal , " too . As to whether the president ' s conduct was " normal , " I suggest you review Mike McCurry ' s recent candid remarks . No , I don ' t care so much about the president ' s sex life . I do care about his perjury . And his personal relations--the way he uses others for his own convenience , the way he debases his relationships with his fellow human beings--do have value as indicating the character of the man to whom we trust not only decisions of cold policy , but also life and death questions of critical moral import . This is the man who sends our sons and daughters to die in battle . I hope his is not the character of one who thinks things like honesty and friendship are so trivial that they should be respected only when expedient to one ' s own momentary gains . Yet I know this falls on deaf ears , because the words " moral " and " character " have become for you mere trivialities . Ask yourself : So what ? 035919 00001 donkirk - 10 : 52pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36046 ) } 00002 *The Independent Counsel Statute is an insult to the Constitution . I ' m off to watch another exciting episode of that number one nighttime soap opera , " ER . " Take very good care of one another , folks . Sleep safe and warm . Good night . 035920 00001 tna1pada3 - 10 : 53pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36046 ) } 00002 * " It ain ' t over til it ' s over " > 00003 Taymar , } 00004 *sadly , suffers from drain bamage . It truely is a sad situation . But . . . not to worry . . . taymar ' s missed the circular firing squad . Maybe . 035921 00001 zebulon13 - 10 : 53pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36046 ) } 00002 *Day 361 : America Held Hostage by the Republicans > 00003 donkirk 1 / 14 / 99 10 : 47pm } 00004 *As it is written , he / she who is without sin , let them cast the first stone . By 2000 there won ' t be a Republican left that hasn ' t had the truth come out about their hypocracy . . . The clock is ticking Gingrich , Livingston , Barr , Burton , tick ticktick 035922 00001 hugsy - 10 : 58pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36046 ) } 00002 *get help . 035923 00001 tna1pada3 - 11 : 01pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36046 ) } 00002 * " It ain ' t over til it ' s over " get help , you worthless liberal sh1t ! Thanks . 035924 00001 jolietjake1 - 11 : 01pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36046 ) > 00002 donkirk 1 / 14 / 99 10 : 35pm } 00003 *You missed my reference Don , I wasn ' t questioning Starr ' s use of prosecutor ' s judgement on deciding to pursue the Lewinsku matter in follow up tp the Webb Hubbell bribery , I was referring to your knowledge of the Dem Senator ' s voting choice beforehand . Perhaps it is just your hope ? Oh , and BTW , I am very happy-- even content to the point of being smug ( But that would be rude ) after today ' s veritable windfall . I almost gasped in wonder seeing Clinton ' s crimes laid out in all their perfidy . I can even let you and Ada have your fun , ' cause it ' s going down , and soon . Justice will out , gentlemen . Bill ' s game is coming to a close . Also , the AP article you posted ? It was nice to see them put one little anti-Dem reference at the way way way back ( perhaps figuring that part won ' t get read by our Ritalin-dependent hoi polloi ? ) . I guess that was the balance ? dogbert85 - 10 : 37pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( §§035906 of 36046 ) The republicans only chance for redemption is to end this witchhunt quickly in the Senate , otherwise 2000 looms as their return to minority status . The repug party has the daunting task of trying to prove to the public that is composed of anything more than religious zealots , racists , and gay bashers . Moderate repugs will try to change this image , but a few rotten apples can poison a very large barrel . +++ 035925 00001 descarham - 11 : 03pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36047 ) } 00002 *The partisan impeachment of Clinton by the House has so angered Senate Democrats that there is not a chance in hell that he will be found guilty . The Republicans encouraged by Newt ' s predictions prior to the elections that the GOP would probably pick up 30 to 40 seats in the House and as many as 10 to 12 seats in the Senate figured that impeachment and removal was very do-able . What they did not count on was the election results , least of all Newt . ( and he paid the price ) But by that time the impeachment train had already left the station . Realizing there were not enough votes in the Senate for removal , but already committed , they felt they had no choice but to move on . Having found themselves in a " catch 22 " - damned if they do and damned if they don ' t , the rest of the country sits here waiting for them to get a grip on reality . And that reality is very simple . Regardless of Clintons crimes there are two simple truths . 1 . The American people do not want him removed from office . ( think what you want but politicians are sensitive to polls ) 2 . There are not enough votes in the Senate for removal . 035926 00001 hugsy - 11 : 03pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36047 ) > 00002 ada , } 00003 *you really are losing it . what ' s wrong ? 035927 00001 taymar8326 - 11 : 04pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36047 ) > 00002 donkirk re ; - 09 : 57pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( # of 35910 ) } 00003 *The Independent Counsel Statute is an insult to the Constitution . RE : " You still don ' t have a clue . Nearly every one of those 100 United States Senators already knows exactly how he / she will vote at the end of this charade . And there are NOT 67 of them who will vote to convict the President and remove him from office . " } 00004 *Wrong Mr . Kirk . I am not in the habit of deluding myself . That however doesn ' t make it right does it ? Or does it in your eye ' s ? Perhaps if you had the opportunity , some may even call it the privilege of enforcing the law on a daily basis , on many occasions at the risk of your own life you would not be so cavalier in your attitudes and opinions regarding the perversion of the law . Curious that you consider yourself a student of the constitution yet have absolutely no respect for the rule of law . You continually defend the man with no regard for the law . I assure you Mr . Kirk , if you were facing charges of felony perjury and obstruction of justice and did not have the full weight of the federal government in your corner I feel this cavalier attitude would soon turn to genuine fear and remorse . After all Mr . Kirk , you would not have the same privileges we are apparently willing to afford this obviously corrupt administration . 035928 00001 tna1pada3 - 11 : 05pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36047 ) } 00002 * " It ain ' t over til it ' s over " get help , you worthless liberal sh1t ! Thanks , Mr > 00003 gdmfnyt . } 00004 *Tell the switchboard operator , " Hello " for me . 035929 00001 tna1pada3 - 11 : 06pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36047 ) " It ain ' t over til it ' s over " > 00002 taymar8326 1 / 14 / 99 11 : 04pm } 00003 *Kiss my grits . 035930 00001 fbowden1 - 11 : 09pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36047 ) } 00002 *I like that message about Republicans shooting themselves in the feet . No matter how serious and weighty CNN and other media pudits say the House manager ' s presentation is , the fact that reaches the public , and helps bolster Clinton ' s poll numbers , is that there are no Democrats on the team . They were specifically excluded by Republicans , so this is perceived as a Republican political attempt to overthrow the duely elected government . In a more unkempt country , they would have done it with guns , here they try subterfuge . The big difference between this affair and the Nixon scandal is that then , there were almost as many Republicans as Democrats calling for Nixon to step aside . There was a bi-partisan revulsion at Nixon ' s heavy handed activities and paranoia and cover up a clear criminal act against another political party stress political party . Nixon was to have been impeached , not for the Ellsburg break-in which really should have been of more concerned to private citizens but for using governmental power to subvert the most significant opposing political party . ( I don ' t want to give Republicans any undue credit for some moral principle there either , they probably wanted to get rid of Nixon because the break-in was so stupid . After all , he was facing McGovern ! ) Not so here . The mystery here is not Clinton ' s actions , but that of the Republicans . Wonder if they have a Democrat or Socialist advising them or perhaps the Iyotollah ' s spirit is . 035931 00001 powerside1 - 11 : 10pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36047 ) } 00002 * " This country cannot afford to be materially rich and spiritually poor . . . . It reminds us of the importance of family . . and the duty we owe to each other . . . . let us all pledge by our devotion to God and family " BILL CLINTON , 10-30-96 The Democrats have embraced moral bankruptcy and political expediency--the politics of personal and moral self-destruction . It is now in danger of becoming a party without principles . 035932 00001 johnsdad1b - 11 : 11pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36047 ) " There can be no high civility without a deep morality . " . . . . . Ralph Waldo Emerson > 00002 zebulon13 1 / 14 / 99 10 : 53pm Clinton , Clinton , Clinton . . . . . tick tock , tick tock ...... : - ) And his poll numbers are already 9 pts down ...... Hi , > 00003 Taymar ! 035933 00001 tna1pada3 - 11 : 13pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36047 ) } 00002 * " It ain ' t over til it ' s over " > 00003 gdmfnyt - 06 : 29pm Apr 30 , 1998 EST ( §§09082 of 9085 ) } 00004 *go shoot some GDMF puppies you worthless liberal sh1t . First liberalism , then cancer . +++ 035934 00001 jolietjake1 - 11 : 13pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36045 ) > 00002 tna1pada3 1 / 14 / 99 11 : 05pm } 00003 *Why do you keep posting that ? Izzit some kind of weird liberal masochism ? The same that spurs you onto ever greater levels of Clinonitial abasement nightly ? 035935 00001 lostingotham - 11 : 13pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36045 ) } 00002 *It ain ' t over ' til it ' s over . No matter how much Clinton wishes it were . " If these charges prove to be true , then that ' s very serious . " - Hilary Rodham Clinton " My conduct was indefensible . " - William Jefferson Clinton ( unless he was lying again ) " It isn ' t a lie if nobody believes you . " - James Carville 035936 00001 taymar8326 - 11 : 14pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36045 ) > 00002 tna1pada3 - 11 : 06pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( #35929 of 35929 ) } 00003 * " It ain ' t over til it ' s over " > 00004 taymar8326 1 / 14 / 99 11 : 04pm } 00005 * " Kiss my grits . " } 00006 *You obviously have me confused with someone else , Mr . Kirk perhaps . He seems to be willing to lick your boots clean at any and every opportunity . Or maybe our sociopathic president . Seems to me thats the same offer he made to Ms . Jones . Carefull councilor , look what that got Bill into . No matter . 035937 00001 hugsy - 11 : 14pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36045 ) > 00002 ada , } 00003 *I don ' t think you know who your friends are . You think they ' re the ones who condone your behavior ? You used to be interesting , but read your posts now ? pull it together . 035938 00001 rtwing1 - 11 : 17pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36045 ) > 00002 zebulon13 } 00003 *I find it unfortunate that , despite you yellow commies contempt of the Bible and the institutions it represents , you are quick to pull a quote ( usually out of context ) from thin air and , with orgasmic support from your fellow Maoists , toss it in the face of a conservative to validate your weak points . I doubt you own a Bible , and I am most certain you cannot ( or will not ! ) quote scripture and verse . By the way . . . in 2000 , once you socialist leeches have marched the very last Republican into the sea , who will be left to pay the freight on all the " recipients " you insist having on the dole ? After all , you can ' t get " blood from a turnip . " Hehe . 035939 00001 smparker1 . 2 - 11 : 18pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36045 ) } 00002 *Good evening , everybody . . . I see the fur is flying . 035940 00001 johnsdad1b - 11 : 18pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36045 ) } 00002 * " There can be no high civility without a deep morality . " . . . . . Ralph Waldo Emerson The big difference between this affair and the Nixon scandal is that then , there were almost as many Republicans as Democrats calling for Nixon to step aside . There was a bi-partisan revulsion at Nixon ' s heavy handed activities and paranoia and cover up a clear criminal act against another political party - stress political party . What you miss is that the republicans then , as today , find criminal and unethical behavior unacceptable . It is the Democrats of the 1990 ' s that have changed ! They now accept it ! 035941 00001 tna1pada3 - 11 : 19pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36045 ) } 00002 * " It ain ' t over til it ' s over " > 00003 taymar8326 1 / 14 / 99 11 : 14pm } 00004 * No confusion . 035942 00001 taymar8326 - 11 : 20pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36045 ) } 00002 *Hi ' jd ' , looks like we ' ve been playing criss cross all day .
I agree I can have a heavy hand . But I really think y ' all can take it . Thanks for the statement that ada was wrong . You are the first lefty to say so , and you get my respect for that . I suspect that I don ' t actually differ on too many issues with the ' left ' . But I realize my greater interest in WHY folks still support BC as apposed to what is actually going to happen regarding impeachment etc , leads me to subject matter that irks some folks . Feel free to let me know if you think I get out of bounds , I will consider them seriously . It is very sad to me if you really think this . I do not understand why you would want to introduce such eronious negativity into your life , but that is out of my control . I think though you know you are just smearing , and that is very low . Anyway , if you want to use this forum for the purposes of your smearing that is your business . No one can force you to choose the truth , you have to do it on your own . 035966 00001 lostingotham - 11 : 46pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36043 ) } 00002 *It ain ' t over ' til it ' s over . No matter how much Clinton wishes it were . " Now , it ' s commonplace to say that most of us believe that there ' s too much indiscriminate violence , too much indiscriminate sex and too much sort of callous degradation of women and sometimes of other people in various parts of our media today . I believe that the question is , so what ? What we ought to be talking about today is , so what are we all going to do about that ? Because our ability to change things , I think , consists most importantly in our ability to affirmative steps . At this talk at Georgetown , I made a commitment that I would try to set an example for what I thought our political leaders ought to be doing . " - William Jefferson Clinton , July 10 , 1995 Thanks for the example , Bill . 035967 00001 rmwestjr - 11 : 50pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36043 ) > 00002 descarham , } 00003 * " I have a question for my Republican friends . " } 00004 *For a democrat or liberal , isn ' t ' republican friends ' an oxymoron ? } 00005 * " The Republican leaders then had a secret meeting with the House Managers which I ' m sure the Democrats are not too happy about . " } 00006 *In comparison to their secret meeting with the WH defense . . . } 00007 * " I ' ve never heard of a jury meeting with the prosecutor while the trial is in session . " } 00008 *True , true . . . I have heard of juries partying with the defendents after aquittal . How about partying and celebrating impeachment ? A true picture of our ' contrite ' and ' apologetic ' president . } 00009 * " My question ; The Republicans need 12 Democratic votes for removal . How in hell do they expect to get them when they pull these sort of stunts ? ? " } 00010 *Clear and convincing evidence would be a good start . 035968 00001 hugsy - 11 : 50pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36043 ) } 00002 *So , did anyone actually see any of the trial . Was it worth watching , or same old stuff . 035969 00001 arian35 - 11 : 51pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36043 ) } 00002 *From shadows and symbols into the truth ! - John Cardinal Newman ( Epitaph ) My NOW favorite ditty ( imagine Ray Charles singing ) : Tell your momma Tell your paw I ' m gonna send you back to Ar-kan-saw O yeah ! ! ! ! ! ! ! Wave bye-bye to Bill ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! 035970 00001 johnsdad1b - 11 : 53pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36043 ) } 00002 * " There can be no high civility without a deep morality . " . . . . . Ralph Waldo Emerson Obviously , the President is in a world of hurt . The question is , even though in the polls , he ' s down 9% , that when it comes to the State of the Union speech , how political will he make it ? How far will he go in selling the rest of his soul ? What will he give away and how much to who . Without having to humiliate himself anymore , this is his last chance to go before the American people , lie to them , give them something , promise to keep their belly ' s full , lie about what he has done for the economy and hold on for two more years . He ' ll do it for the children , honesty and our families . For the future of America , I Bill Clinton , will save you all ! 035971 00001 hugsy - 11 : 53pm Jan 14 , 1999 EST ( of 36043 ) > 00002 arian35 1 / 14 / 99 11 : 51pm } 00003 *Was the presentation that good , or are you just ' supporting your team ' .
managers maintain this demeanor through to the end , aquittal will be a travesty . Everyone will know it . The Democrats will have had what ' s left of their tattered legitimacy stripped away . Clinton is a walking corpse . He simply lacks the good grace to lie down . Arrogant to the end , he insists on taking his party , his friends , to the grave with him . 036006 00001 gensec - 01 : 26am Jan 15 , 1999 EST ( of 36034 ) } 00002 * " I ' m out on bail the check is in the mail , They can sentence me to life but I won ' t go to jail " - beastie boys " Time to Get Ill " > 00003 hugsy 1 / 15 / 99 1 : 01am : } 00004 * does anyone really believe that BC will be convicted and removed because of the evidence ? } 00005 *No hugsy , I think most of the Democrats will march in partisan lockstep with the mantra that the Felon in Chief should not be removed from office for the same crime that they voted to remove Judge Nixon for ( no relation I presume ) . Despite the intensity shown by both sides here , I don ' t think anything else that happens with this has much consequence for Bill , other than the highly unlikely event of conviction . I favor having witnesses just to maintain the integrity of the Constitutional process of the impeachment trial , and oppose censure as an affront ( however trivial ) to the separation of powers . Still , whatever happens on witnesses or censure is unlikely to have any effect on Bill now , or on his pathetic legacy as a bug squashed between the pages of history . The bottom line is that Clinton ' s legacy has been sealed by his impeachment - a caretaker Presidency that nobody will remember for anything besides its scandals , sort of like Warren Harding . I think that should be a significant deterrent to any future Presidents contemplating comitting felonies , or even dancing in the grey area of felonious conduct . If I had the misfortune to be a Senator casting the deciding vote , I would feel compelled to vote to convict by my oath of impartiality . However , I would much rather have Bill as President than Al . Bill believes in nothing , and will do whatever it takes to promote his own interests , even in those cases where that means doing the right thing . He pretty much lets Alan Greenspan keep the economy humming , and eventually came around to the Republican demands for welfare reform and a balanced budget after extracting some pork-barrel concessions . Al on the other hand , actually believes the liberal nonsense , and would still be fighting for higher gas taxes to make us all ride the bus . +++ 036007 00001 mrjdh - 01 : 30am Jan 15 , 1999 EST ( of 36034 ) } 00002 *Let ' s not be fooled by all of this high-minded rhetoric about how a trial cannot be held without witnesses . The same right-wing zealots who are " managing " the prosecution had every opportunity to call fact witness ( as is regularly done in even the most mundane house committee hearings ) . Insted they chose to rehash the grand inquisitor ' s salacious report and make pious statements about the sanctity of truthfulness ( as if they were a troop of boy scouts -- oops sorry Ms . Bono ) . It is truly a sad day when a neo-Nazi like Bob Barr and Henry " the homewrecker " Hyde are setting the nation ' s agenda . But is there anything more smarmy than Hyde reciting Shakespeare ? 036008 00001 jakbert - 01 : 31am Jan 15 , 1999 EST ( of 36034 ) } 00002 *I ' ve heard conflicting opinions and would like more information . Is it within a senator ' s right to vote not guilty if he believes the crime was committed but does not justify removal from office ? 036009 00001 hugsy - 01 : 38am Jan 15 , 1999 EST ( of 36034 ) > 00002 gensec 1 / 15 / 99 1 : 26am } 00003 *I think you are right . I think there is enough stuff for both sides to just see what they want to see and vote they way the want . > 00004 jakbert 1 / 15 / 99 1 : 31am I wondered this too . I don ' t think they can , but I think they will . It gets to the root of the question , does the House ' s passage of the Impeachment charges and their recommendation that BC be removed , bind the Senate . I asked if the senators could vote guilty , but change the penalty to allow him to stay in office awhile ago , but got no answer . 036010 00001 ether14 - 01 : 38am Jan 15 , 1999 EST ( of 36034 ) } 00002 *Trials are funny things . You can never account for how an individual witness is received and perceived by the jury . Oliver North is a perfect example . He was to have been the entre - bit of mustard to be added by the committee - and ended being the predator eating the committee for breakfast . Trials and public appearances are never controllable . The Republicans made a good start today . The White Ho ' House is going to have to rebut specific charges not conduct a beauty contest among academics and constitutional liars ooops , Freudian slip , meant " lawyers . " Well , maybe not , eh ? I expect that Billy Jeff Buttafuoco will be bombing some small sovereign nation by this time next week . Change any travel plans which include Baghdad , eh ? I also expect him to promise another hambone to any special interest group who can muster attendance greater than 6 persons . He ' s only promised $6 . 8 Billion so far this week and it ' s only Thursday . Helpful if the beneficiaries cannot read or write , no ? Hey , we ' ll pay for it all with with with with - yeah , a tax on tobacco - hell , that ' s Al Gore ' s problem , eh ? Yeah , that ' s the ticket . Trials are funny things . 036011 00001 ether14 - 01 : 43am Jan 15 , 1999 EST ( of 36034 ) > 00002 julian} 00003 *Yeah , those Boy Scouts , who the hell do they think they are ? Helping old bags across streets and smarmy sh*t like that , eh ? They should be real men like Billy Jeff Buttafuoco - guys who really know to use women and interns and other cool stuff like that , eh ? Yeah , those damn Boy Scouts , who do they think they are ? That ' s what ' s wrong with America , huh ? Well , Arkansas anyway , no ? 036012 00001 vrwcarea51b - 01 : 44am Jan 15 , 1999 EST ( of 36034 ) } 00002 *I See little Willy Flynton continued his Impeachment Payolla tour 99 ! What was it today , something like 6 Billion dollars ! So much for that Grand standing in September when he said " I will not approve any additional spending until the SSI Crisis is resolved ! " 036013 00001 collioure1 - 01 : 45am Jan 15 , 1999 EST ( of 36034 ) } 00002 *Truth and honesty are not the currency of the Clinton administration ( Chinese money is preferred ) > 00003 rineyd 1 / 15 / 99 12 : 19am } 00004 *Hey , pal , what ' s your drift with these racists terms - my white race , white devil ? 036014 00001 gensec - 01 : 47am Jan 15 , 1999 EST ( of 36034 ) } 00002 * " I ' m out on bail the check is in the mail , They can sentence me to life but I won ' t go to jail " - beastie boys " Time to Get Ill " > 00003 jakbert 1 / 15 / 99 1 : 31am > 00004 hugsy 1 / 15 / 99 1 : 38am } 00005 *I asked if the senators could vote guilty , but change the penalty to allow him to stay in office awhile ago , but got no answer The talking heads and my reading of the Constitution , " shall be removed " on conviction after impeachment , agree that conviction means automatic removal . Since the Constitution leaves the Senators as final arbiters of the process , nothing can stop them from voting on whatever basis motivates them . Someone can disagree with the logic or ethics of their reasoning , but its their call . 036015 00001 ether14 - 01 : 48am Jan 15 , 1999 EST ( of 36034 ) > 00002 51b} 00003 *The Grand Payola Tour only became a reality when Billy Jeff Buttafuoco had all those tour venues and dates he had booked for the Tour de Apologia World Tour going to waste . Look for the tour to bomb shortly - well Baghdad anyway , no ? Where is Hillary ? I get nervous when Hillary goes into hiding . She ' s probably tying to help OJ find the
killers and the whereabouts of the billing records , no ? Though I did notice a bit of a fluctuation in the cattle futures market today , yes ? ( 35996 previous messages ) 036016 00001 hugsy - 01 : 49am Jan 15 , 1999 EST ( of 36033 ) > 00002 gensec 1 / 15 / 99 1 : 26am } 00003 *my response did not do the sanity of your post justice . You put up a very good one there . I think we are on the same plane , except I may be quicker to take Al Gore over BC ( because of the divisiveness he causes ) , even though your assertion about the bus riding may very well be on the money .
of the Clinton administration ( Chinese money is preferred ) > 00003 vrwcarea51b 1 / 15 / 99 1 : 44am } 00004 *Hey , vast , you can lay what happened last Sept right at the feet of the departed Newt Gingrich , with an assist from Bob Livingston . Seems I learned some of that addl spending went right into Newt ' s district where he spent an ungodly amount on his own re-election campaign . I don ' t know what Flynton promised today but very little he propposes goes anywhere . He ' s the lamest d*mn duck in my lifetime . 036018 00001 hugsy - 01 : 51am Jan 15 , 1999 EST ( of 36033 ) > 00002 gensec 1 / 15 / 99 1 : 47am } 00003 *so the jury votes not guilty because they think the punishment is too harsh , even if they think he did commit the acts . yes ? 036019 00001 lashlaru1 - 01 : 53am Jan 15 , 1999 EST ( of 36033 ) > 00002 My dear skunkbear1 : } 00003 *Yes , many americans share your view that Clinton ' s aquittal in the senate trial may be only a pyrrhic victory . . . with disastrous impact on his leadership . But , don ' t count the Comeback Kid out . The corpse you see on the political landscape is not his . . . it is Gingrich ' s , who had also thought that Clinton was politically dead when this scandal broke a year ago , remember ? And , as even his most ardent critics have said , he is the greatest political counter-puncher in our country ' s history . So . . . we shall see . 036020 00001 hugsy - 01 : 55am Jan 15 , 1999 EST ( of 36033 ) > 00002 lashlaru1 1 / 15 / 99 1 : 53am } 00003 *wouldn ' t it be better to have a leader , than a political counter-puncher ? 036021 00001 gensec - 01 : 59am Jan 15 , 1999 EST ( of 36033 ) } 00002 * " I ' m out on bail the check is in the mail , They can sentence me to life but I won ' t go to jail " - beastie boys " Time to Get Ill " > 00003 hugsy 1 / 15 / 99 1 : 51am } 00004 *They can rationalize that he really isn ' t guilty , because they say even if he comitted the specific acts alleged , those acts don ' t fit the definition of the crime . ( Heard that one before ? ) That kind of issue occasionally comes into play in other trials . There could be a video of someone being attacked and killing his attacker . No dispute about the facts , but the jury would have to decide the legal issue whether the threat posed by the attacker constituted enough of a danger to justify the homicide as self-defense . Of course , even if the facts and law were clear enough to make the case unambiguous , a biased juror could still rationalize his way into voting his bias in contradiction to the law and facts . 036022 00001 hugsy - 02 : 02am Jan 15 , 1999 EST ( of 36033 ) > 00002 gensec 1 / 15 / 99 1 : 59am } 00003 *So once again , our justice system is the worst , except for all the others .
036025 00001 lashlaru1 - 02 : 09am Jan 15 , 1999 EST ( of 36033 ) > 00002 hugsy : } 00003 *Preferably , a president should be both leader , and counter-puncher . Why ? Because unless a president responds quickly to his political opponents , he risks losing his presidency despite his abilities as a leader . For example , Carter was a great leader . . . so was George Bush , but they were poor counter-punchers . . . that ' s why both them failed to be re-elected to second terms . That ' s why . +++ 036026 00001 thewolf1 - 02 : 10am Jan 15 , 1999 EST ( of 36031 ) } 00002 * Congress put President Clinton on trial before the eyes of the world Thursday , but much of the international audience was looking the other way -- at its own problems . Turmoil in financial markets following Brazil ' s dramatic currency devaluation grabbed headlines and overshadowed the opening of Clinton ' s impeachment trial . Mexican news media
, occupied with economic woes , paid little attention to the president ' s . The daily newspaper Excelsior published Clinton ' s trial memorandum on its front page , but with little comment . Austrian radio ignored the Washington spectacle to focus on the big European Union story -- a vote of confidence over allegations of fraud and nepotism within the European Commission , the EU ' s executive agency . While Clinton ' s impeachment got under way , the 20-member commission underwent -and survived -- a vote in the European Parliament that could have forced its dismissal . Britain , a member of the EU , was watching too , and most evening TV news broadcasts played up the impeachment . By Friday morning , a day after the Brazilian debacle , the impeachment trial grabbed the lead-story position in many British dailies . The Times of London ' s headline read , ``Battle begins for Clinton ' s survival , ' ' while the Daily Telegraph ' s story took up half of the front page . The Independent ' s display swallowed the entire front page with the headline , ``January 14 , 1999 . The day a President went on trial . ' ' Sky TV ' s all-day news program Thursday ran some live segments from Congress . And Channel 4 led its main news program with ``the extraordinary proceedings ' ' in Washington , which anchorman Jon Snow called a ``bizarre partisan trial of strength . ' ' The network ' s Washington correspondent , David Smith , called it a yearlong ``political soap opera ' ' and posed the question : ``Who over the next few days is going to test the patience of the United States Senate and the American public more ? Will it be the Republicans or . . . the presidents ' lawyers ? ' ' 036027 00001 d-fendr - 02 : 15am Jan 15 , 1999 EST ( of 36031 ) } 00002 *I was very disappointed when the major networks left the coverage when the factual presentation began . I ' ll wait to see if they do the same thing to the president ' s lawyers . Impeachment trial is on in the senate , and all I get on the ' public ' s airwaves ' is Oprah , Jenny Jones and Judge Judy . Ironic . 036028 00001 hugsy - 02 : 15am Jan 15 , 1999 EST ( of 36031 ) > 00002 lashlaru1 1 / 15 / 99 2 : 09am } 00003 *I don ' t think Carter or Bush were great leaders . Good guys , but basically steady-freddies . Reagan , although I did not support him at the time , I have to admit was a great leader . Clinton cannot accomplish anything he cannot buy people ' s cooperation for . That is why he is quite useless in dealing with Iraq and N . Korea , but good at things like paying Isreal and Yassir arafat as an inducement for them to start cooperating . ( unfortuneatly , I don ' t think the cooperations lasts after the final payment is made ) BC is not a leader , precicely do to his counter-punching . He only succeeds in dividing , not leading . IMHO . 036029 00001 thewolf1 - 02 : 16am Jan 15 , 1999 EST ( of 36031 ) Congress put President Clinton on trial before the eyes of the world Thursday , but much of the international audience was looking the other way -- at its own problems . Turmoil in financial markets following Brazil ' s dramatic currency devaluation grabbed headlines and overshadowed the opening of Clinton ' s impeachment trial . Mexican news media , occupied with economic woes , paid little attention to the president ' s . The daily newspaper Excelsior published Clinton ' s trial memorandum on its front page , but with little comment . Austrian radio ignored the Washington spectacle to focus on the big European Union story -- a vote of confidence over allegations of fraud and nepotism within the European Commission , the EU ' s executive agency . While Clinton ' s impeachment got under way , the 20-member commission underwent -and survived -- a vote in the European Parliament that could have forced its dismissal . Britain , a member of the EU , was watching too , and most evening TV news broadcasts played up the impeachment . By Friday morning , a day after the Brazilian debacle , the impeachment trial grabbed the lead-story position in many British dailies . The Times of London ' s headline read , ``Battle begins for Clinton ' s survival , ' ' while the
Daily Telegraph ' s story took up half of the front page . The Independent ' s display swallowed the entire front page with the headline , ``January 14 , 1999 . The day a President went on trial . ' ' Sky TV ' s all-day news program Thursday ran some live segments from Congress . And Channel 4 led its main news program with ``the extraordinary proceedings ' ' in Washington , which anchorman Jon Snow called a ``bizarre partisan trial of strength . ' ' The network ' s Washington correspondent , David Smith , called it a yearlong ``political soap opera ' ' and posed the question : ``Who over the next few days is going to test the patience of the United States Senate and the American public more ? Will it be the Republicans or . . . the presidents ' lawyers ? ' ' 036030 00001 collioure1 - 02 : 16am Jan 15 , 1999 EST ( of 36031 ) } 00002 *Truth and honesty are not the currency of the Clinton administration ( Chinese money is preferred ) > 00003 lashlaru1 1 / 15 / 99 2 : 09am } 00004 *Neither Carter , Bush , nor Clinton have been great leaders . FDR , Truman , Ike , JFK , Johnson , and Reagan were leaders . They jknew how to carry the ball . 036031 00001 gensec - 02 : 17am Jan 15 , 1999 EST ( of 36031 ) } 00002 * " I ' m out on bail the check is in the mail , They can sentence me to life but I won ' t go to jail " - beastie boys " Time to Get Ill " > 00003 hugsy 1 / 15 / 99 1 : 49am : } 00004 *I think we are on the same plane , except I may be quicker to take Al Gore over BC ( because of the divisiveness he causes ) I think Al could be as committed to the politics of personal destruction as his Big Brother is . He certainly shows the same proclivity for characterizing disagreement with him on policy as immorality . I still remember election night 1992 , where Bill at least had enough sense ( whether or not he was sincere ) to make conciliatory remarks in his victory speech after the election was over , while Al on the other hand couldn ' t help launching into another angry round of personal denunciations . I think Bill is motivated by self-centered arrogance , while Al may really be consumed by hate . 036038 00001 lashlaru1 - 02 : 27am Jan 15 , 1999 EST ( of 37330 ) > 00002 My dear gensec : } 00003 *Hmnnn , all may not be lost for bad boy Billy from the standpoint of history . If
Clinton lifts the embargo and renews normal relations with Cuba , makes a breakthrough on international nuclear disarmament , or achieves some other notable accomplishment of international consequences , he might well be remembered more for such a feat than for the mere fact that he is only the second president to be impeached in our country ' s history . After all , don ' t you agree that historians remember Nixon not only for his Watergate resignation for also for enabling our country to resume normal relations with China ? 036039 00001 d-fendr - 02 : 27am Jan 15 , 1999 EST ( of 37330 ) } 00002 *Al has had one idea in his whole life . And it was wrong . 036040 00001 d-fendr - 02 : 28am Jan 15 , 1999 EST ( of 37330 ) } 00002 *Well , Clinton may be remembered for China too , though in a quite different way . 036041 00001 gensec - 02 : 29am Jan 15 , 1999 EST ( of 37330 ) } 00002 * " I ' m out on bail the check is in
the mail , They can sentence me to life but I won ' t go to jail " - beastie boys " Time to Get Ill " > 00003 hugsy 1 / 15 / 99 2 : 21am } 00004 *You could be right about Bill ' s motivation . But it still includes Bill doing whatever he needs to do to get what he wants . I think when he trashes innocent peoples ' lives , like the Travel Office employees , its because they ' re in his way , not because he has anything against them . I think Al sees anyone who disagrees with him as a force of evil . 036042 00001 collioure1 - 02 : 33am Jan 15 , 1999 EST ( of 37330 ) } 00002 *Truth and honesty are not the currency of the Clinton administration ( Chinese money is preferred ) > 00003 hugsy 1 / 15 / 99 2 : 26am } 00004 *Abortion like gun control is one of those non-issues , hun . Like very little is ever going to happen on those fronts . But I too would certainly welcome Al and Tipper into the WH . Al probably had to tape her mouth over the Larry Flynt coziness ! Decent SOUTHERN people .
But some of it is deserved . I remember ( you forgot ) the beating the Dems . and Repubs . gave Senator Packwood who was a republican . Senator Packwood was accused of hugging women , plus a few other wrongly placed unwanted kisses . You can ' t even compare what Packwood did ( he was removed ) versus the President ' s actions with Monica ( doubtful removal - but its not over until the fat lady sings ) . We would all go to heck if we had to give up hugging . But just the same , we must enforce sexual harassment laws - and as sure as the sun will rise tomorrow somwewhere in this world , the President is guilty of sexual harassment . Over 80% of Americans and even members of the President ' s party say he has lied , committed perjury , and obstructed justice . So if all this is true ( reminds me of the OJ trial ) , why don ' t we throw the bum out ? Yeah , I see the polls as well as you do that say 66% of this misguided population say the President is doing a good job ( I think based strickly on the economy ) , but more than that point , those numbers reflect the slipping morality and values of Americans . As a former Demo that voted for Clinton twice , I don ' t like what I see the democrats doing . Basically they are defending Clinton using another form of the race card which freed a killer , and this card is the economy . In other words , the means ( economy ) justifys the end result ( free a guilty President ) . So sad ! 046243 00001 littlebigsys - 12 : 20am Jan 23 , 1999 EST ( of 46330 ) } 00002 * . . . the poor get poorer . . . . Wealth is redistributed about as much as it possibly can be already . Sounds self-contradictory to me . +++ 046244 00001 janetlb - 12 : 39am Jan 23 , 1999 EST ( of 46327 ) } 00002 *If you want to see what happens to a community that thinks morals don ' t matter , go into the Black ghetto areas . No wonder Clinton loves these people . But , look at what our nation will degenerate into if the rule of law gives way to community opinion . After all , Hitler was popular and did a lot for the German people through their economy , especially . Do you all know that part of the job of the electors is supposed to be to screen a candidate ' s moral behavior , because the people could be hoodwinked by some smooth talking liar and vote him into office ? Guess all the electors in these past elections should definitely be replaced for not doing their job . Hope the Senate doesn ' t fail so miserably . 046245 00001 tranthien - 12 : 41am Jan 23 , 1999 EST ( of 46327 ) } 00002 *Witnesses needed ( ) for the Impeachment Trial ? Could anyone explain why the Republicans at the House didn ' t call any witness but rushed to impeach Clinton and now at the Senate floor , they want witnesses so badly ? . I wish the Senate will decide to call witnesses before the jurors . Could witnesses change the Senators mind ? Do you think if witnesses were called , the politically motivated Special Prosecutor Starr would have to answer some very , very hard questions ? ? It might turn out as if Starr were on trial , not Clinton . 046246 00001 9 . 17 . 1787 - 12 : 49am Jan 23 , 1999 EST ( of 46327 ) } 00002 *Definition of the Liberal : ( Political ) ( 1 ) The iron clad , spastic , genetically encoded adherence to the belief that purpose of the government and all of its laws , protections , liberties , freedoms and privileges is for the free usurpation and thus utilization of the liberal will . Get out of it everything you can . For the liberal will to become self-perpetuating , it must TAKE ADVANTAGE of every opportunity available to it to manipulate every aspect of the constitution and the American form of government so as to create a liberal utopia where the only direction , the only principles , the only truth that is binding to the liberal is the one that it makes for itself through the sheer will of its liberalism . ( Personal ) ( 2 ) The personification of that common opaque dream of the poor little whining imbecile who sits among the crowd and pisses his pants in front of all , and is utterly powerless to stop it . Partly because he lacks the intestinal fortitude to pinch off a turd , much less a wizz . Partly because he enjoys the warm feeling of being so different , so ignorant , so pathetic . . . Liberal manifesto : 1 ) The word lie is a misnomer and does not exist , only the free exercise of liberal will 2 ) Laws are tools to be used for the creative and semantic reconstruction and subsequent obliteration of the inherent obstacles that the weaker conservative influence has on the effective proliferation of the liberal will . 3 ) Liberal Will is literal truth 5am -- January 22 , 1999 By Greg Pierce THE WASHINGTON TIMES THE VERY SCUMBAGS THAT ARE HIS ATTORNEYS ARE AS GOOD AN EXAMPLE AS YOU HAVE ? WHAT KIND OF carville LIKE SCUM BAG WOULD DEFEND A SCUM BAG LIKE CLINTON ? --Greg Craig . Craig coordinates the president ' s impeachment defense inside the White House and is the lead spokesman on the issue . Craig was an aide to Sen . Edward Kennedy , D-Mass . , and helped represent John Hinckley Jr . after he attempted to assassinate President Reagan in 1981 . Deputy White House Counsel Cheryl D . Mills was lionized in the media Thursday for her performance in defending the president before the Senate on Wednesday . But almost no one mentioned that a House committee has accused Miss Mills of the same type of misbehavior attributed to Mr . Clinton -- lying and obstruction of an investigation . The charges have been forwarded to the Justice Department . The House Committee on Reform and Oversight , in a 1998 report on its investigation of possible misuse of the White House database , had this to say about Miss Mills : " The committee found substantial evidence that Deputy White House Counsel Cheryl Mills perjured herself in testimony before the committee about her decision , made in concert with White House Counsel Jack Quinn , to withhold important documents responsive to the committee ' s requests . " The report added : " The President ' s involvement in the plan to convert government property to the [Democratic National Committee] and the ultimate accomplishment of that plan [represented by the transfer of these lists and data to the DNC and the Clinton-Gore campaign] motivated the White House to mount an extraordinary effort to delay and impede the investigation . Incriminating documents were withheld until after the 1996 election -- in one case , for more than a year . The White House refused to respond for months to repeated requests for documents and information . Most significantly , when called before the committee to explain the withholding of documents , Deputy Counsel to the President Cheryl Mills chose to give demonstrably false testimony . This matter has been referred to the Department of Justice for investigation of possible perjury and obstruction of the investigation . " Rep . David M . McIntosh , Indiana Republican and chairman of one of the Reform and Oversight subcommittees , sought a criminal investigation of Miss Mills in a letter to the Justice Depa 046247 00001 clsi1 - 12 : 50am Jan 23 , 1999 EST ( of 46327 ) } 00002 *I hope someone our there understands that the President has not been convicted of any crime and the House Managers can ' t seem to convince a " jury " of Senator beyond a reasonable doubt he committed a crime . Although that wouldn ' t be a criminal conviction , they can ' t even do that . Remember , convincing 2 / 3 of jury in a criminal court would result in either acquittal or hung jury . There you need 100% . I suspect Mr . Starr will suffer the same fate if he ever indicts Mr . Clinton . You can say you think he comitted a crime but you can ' t call him a perjurer or obstructor . The Constitution forbids it . In fact , the house Managers should be saying we believe he did so and so rather than saying he did . No doubt he is a liar , but a liar about what is also relevent question . No doubt he is a breathtaking fool for doing what he did with Ms . Lewinski . However , our system of justice presumes innocence until and unless a jury in a court convicts you . That is Constitutional . That is the rule of law . 046248 00001 cliper - 12 : 55am Jan 23 , 1999 EST ( of 46327 ) } 00002 *I have heard several times that President Clinton can be held accountable
after he leaves office like any citizen for Perjury and Obstruction of Justice . What I haven ' t heard , however , is how to prevent what happened to President Nixon from happening to President Clinton . What I mean is this . President Ford pardoned Nixon shortly after Nixon left office . Nixon was then out of reach of the law and home free . If Clinton ' s successor also pardons him , he will have escaped punishment from the US Senate . . . and the pardon also takes him out of reach of the law as well . If that happens , there is nothing anyone can do to him and he will have made a complete mockery of our way of life and justice . +++ 046250 00001 cliper - 01 : 01am Jan 23 , 1999 EST (
of 46324 ) } 00002 *I have heard several times that President Clinton can be held accountable after he leaves office like any citizen for Perjury and Obstruction of Justice . What I haven ' t heard , however , is how to prevent what happened to President Nixon from happening to President Clinton . What I mean is this . President Ford pardoned Nixon shortly after Nixon left office . Nixon was then out of reach of the law and home free . If Clinton ' s successor also pardons him , he will have escaped punishment from the US Senate . . . and the pardon also takes him out of reach of the law as well . If that happens , there is nothing anyone can do to him and he will have made a complete mockery of our way of life and justice . 046251 00001 collioure1 - 01 : 01am Jan 23 , 1999 EST ( of 46324 ) } 00002 *Truth and honesty are not the currency of the Clinton administration ( Chinese money is preferred ) > 00003 cliper 1 / 23 / 99 12 : 55am } 00004 *President Clinton and the country are paying dearly already . Clinton ' s dubious place in history is assured , and his administration is in shambles . 046252 00001 cliper - 01 : 02am Jan 23 , 1999 EST ( of 46324 ) } 00002 *I have heard several times that President Clinton can be held accountable after he leaves office like any citizen for Perjury and Obstruction of Justice . What I haven ' t heard , however , is how to prevent what happened to President Nixon from happening to President Clinton . What I mean is this . President Ford pardoned Nixon shortly after Nixon left office . Nixon was then out of reach of the law and home free . If Clinton ' s successor also pardons him , he will have escaped punishment from the US Senate . . . and the pardon also takes him out of reach of the law as well . If that happens , there is nothing anyone can do to him and he will have made a complete mockery of our way of life and justice . 046253 00001 marc_vatter - 01 : 03am Jan 23 , 1999 EST ( of 46324 ) } 00002 *If Monica was such a gullible kid , why did Starr ' s boys rough her up ? If this is about the letter of the law , then Clinton ' s hairsplitting is appropriate . If this is about the spirit of the law , then Clinton is definitely innocent , having fallen for a politically-motivated perjury trap set by The Republican Party who approached Paula ( it wasn ' t her idea to sue ) , paid for it , and coordinated with Starr in their desperate attempt to get SOMETHING , ANYTHING ! on The President of the United States . 046254 00001 cliper - 01 : 03am Jan 23 , 1999 EST ( of 46324 ) } 00002 *I have heard several times that President Clinton can be held accountable after he leaves office like any citizen for Perjury and Obstruction of Justice . What I haven ' t heard , however , is how to prevent what happened to President Nixon from happening to President Clinton . What I mean is this . President Ford pardoned Nixon shortly after Nixon left office . Nixon was then out of reach of the law and home free . If Clinton ' s successor also pardons him , he will have escaped punishment from the US Senate . . . and the pardon also takes him out of reach of the law as well . If that happens , there is nothing anyone can do to him and he will have made a complete mockery of our way of life and justice . 046255 00001 larrypim - 01 : 04am Jan 23 , 1999 EST ( of 46324 ) } 00002 *Endgame They ' re coming undone . The House Republicans , certain they are right , convinced God is on their side , are facing not just defeat in the Senate trial . Humiliation is a better term . They bet the farm and their spare change on convincing the Senate that our President is such a rotter he MUST be removed from office . Then the President ' s defense team , the dean of the Senate , the cornerstone of the Religious Right , and the few Congressional Republicans who can still think sanely about Bill Clinton spoke out--it ' s over . The gambit has failed . Trying to whip the body politic into a righteous rage , the House Republicans and their allies in the press have instead succeeded in alternately boring and disgusting the rest of us . Did they really believe that Clinton ' s lapses of moral judgement could equal the evils of Richard Nixon and Lyndon Johnson ' falsehoods about Vietnam , or Ronald Reagan ' s whoppers about Iran-Contra ? Can Henry Hyde continue to twist logic , excusing lies and lawbreaking when " national security " is involved but bellowing about The Rule of Law when the lies are about private transgressions of which Hyde himself is guilty ? We have reached the defining moment of this manufactured Constitutional Crisis and found the prosecution ' s arguments are built on froth and sand . In a way , we must feel some empathy for the House Managers . They believe our nation should be governed by those who are judged worthy by the " right " sort of people . Liberals and libertines need not apply . Unfortunately , our elections don ' t always produce those results . But that is democracy . If you want to throw leaders out of office for immoral behavior , go to Indonesia . The House Managers also have to play footsie with the minority of Americans that seem to believe due process and privacy are fine as long as you aren ' t breaking the Sixth Commandment . This minority is ever ready to drive elected officials from office for moral failings , so long as their political ends are served . Usually these ends match the " anti " agenda of the Religious Right . Cynicism isn ' t a trait confined to Liberals . In future history of this episode , we will learn how the Paula Jones matter was created and financed by men and women whose one goal was to destroy the Clintons . These people cared not for law , justice , or even the U . S . Constitution if these institutions protected Bill and Hilary Clinton from their wrath . They subverted Civil Rights , ual Harrassment laws , and finally the Impeachment process in order to bring Clinton down . Now , the endgame has begun . Those whose hatred of our President knows no rational civil or legal bounds are facing only the first of many , many defeats . +++ 046256 00001 johnsdad1b - 01 : 05am Jan 23 , 1999 EST ( of 46323 ) } 00002 * " There can be no high civility without a deep morality . " . . . . . Ralph Waldo Emerson > 00003 dickmorr 1 / 23 / 99 12 : 18am } 00004 *What ' s amazing is that the President , any President according to the economics guru Dr . Tyson . . . attractive and very smart lady , isn ' t really responsible for the economy . She was asked what credit the President should get and she said " none " . . . . . Which if one understands the facts of economics , is correct ! I , for one , always thought that the administration controlled the economy , but have been educated since and can only say that the real economic well being of the country is the perception of how the people feel and if it means a full stomach , then everything is good ! The extreme of how that works is that when using the economic indicators , there were worse times in America in the area of 1936 than in 1929 . Things were so bad , nobody felt worse and the already loved Roosevelt stayed loved . The war got us out and the bad times of the latter 70 ' s and the first part of the 80 ' s was the result of Vietnam and what got us out was the technological revolution that went into high gear and allowed production per man hour of work to increase substantially . . . . . Reagan , Bush and Clinton has absolutely nothing to do with it . 046257 00001 r4rw3r4 - 01 : 06am Jan 23 , 1999 EST ( of 46323 ) > 00002 cliper 1 / 23 / 99 1 : 01am } 00003 *I would take issue with two things in your post . Any official pardons at his peril . Even if Gore becomes President , a pardon would probably doom a second term . My guess , never will happen . The other is more serious . The " escaped punishment in the Senate " . The Senate ( and impeachment ) are not there for punishment . The purpose is to protect the country from a President that is doing damage ( or likely to do damage ) to the system . 046258 00001 johnsdad1b - 01 : 08am Jan 23 , 1999 EST ( of 46323 ) } 00002 * " There can be no high civility without a deep morality . " . . . . . Ralph Waldo Emerson > 00003 collioure1 1 / 23 / 99 1 : 01am } 00004 * Nice to see you . . . just back from a party and going to bed . . . . Night all ! 046259 00001 tamerlane2 - 01 : 09am Jan 23 , 1999 EST ( of 46323 ) } 00002 *Cliper . . . Well , there ' s always the Parralex Corp . 046260 00001 collioure1 - 01 : 11am Jan 23 , 1999 EST ( of 46323 ) } 00002 *Truth and honesty are not the currency of the Clinton administration ( Chinese money is preferred ) > 00003 larrypim 1 / 23 / 99 1 : 04am } 00004 *Look at the mirror to see someone else acting self-righteously . These Clintons are far from innocent . Way too much smoke in Whitewater , Filegate , campaign finance abuse , Travelgate . 046261 00001 r4rw3r4 - 01 : 11am Jan 23 , 1999 EST ( of 46323 ) > 00002 larrypim 1 / 23 / 99 1 : 04am } 00003 *Be careful not to celebrate too soon . The Constitution is still in danger . Sen . Hatch is already floating a " compromise " that validates the House case . Such an agreement could be appealing to Dems . The Devil is in the details , if you validate an illegitimate impeachment everyone loses . The Reps don ' t " get him " and Constitution is still violated . 046262 00001 r4rw3r4 - 01 : 17am Jan 23 , 1999 EST ( of 46323 ) > 00002 collioure1 1 / 23 / 99 1 : 11am } 00003 *That ' s a nice list of the Top Four Things No Evidence Exists For . 046263 00001 ramzfan1 - 01 : 21am Jan 23 , 1999 EST ( of 46323 ) > 00002 tranthien , } 00003 *to state it simply , in the impeachment the House acted as a Grand Jury to charge the president based on the credible evidence gathered , tested and presented by the Independent Counsel , under the monitor of the U . S . Justice Department . The Independent Counsel used a Grand Jury to examine , take depositions and examine credible witnesses all year long and delivered a report based on the law to Congress . A majority of the House acted on the report of Articles of Impeachment prepared by the House Judiciary Committee , who tested the findings of the Starr Report and found sufficient cause to believe in this case that the president violated the law . The Senate acts as a trial court to decide whether to convict or not . In a trial witnesses already deposed and examined in the Independent Counsel investigation are called to testify and be cross-examined to determine the guilt or innocence of the president . This long tedious process is done to make sure there is no miscarriage of justice . Do you understand that Grand Juries don ' t try cases and then have them retried in a trial court ? They act to indict if there is sufficient cause to believe a crime was committed . It does not mean the accused will be convicted , that is what the trial process determines through a sometimes long examination and cross-examination of witnesses before a jury . As for Starr , he was expected to be grilled in the Judiciary Committee hearing but surprisingly defied the " Conventional Wisdom " and accounted for himself well according to Time Magazine who made him co- Man of the Year along with his adversary the First Liar . +++ 046264 00001 collioure1 - 01 : 23am Jan 23 , 1999 EST ( of 46323 ) } 00002 *Truth and honesty are not the currency of the Clinton administration ( Chinese money is preferred ) > 00003 r4rw3r4 1 / 23 / 99 1 : 17am } 00004 *There ' s plenty of evidence - much of it leads to Hillary . But if you want to applaud the illegal review of 900 FBI files , go right ahead . Or campaign contributions from China , or the Buddhist temple fund-rasing scam Or the abuse of the IRS and Dept of Justice in Travelgate Or the raiding of a federally insured S & L by the Little Rock elite . 046265 00001 collioure1 - 01 : 26am Jan 23 , 1999 EST ( of 46323 ) } 00002 *Truth and honesty are not the currency of the Clinton administration ( Chinese money is preferred ) > 00003 johnsdad1b 1 / 23 / 99 1 : 08am } 00004 *Hi , Bill . Looks like censure for sure now . I think that ' s about right . I do wish the whole truth would come out , but I doubt it will . Bring on campaign 2000 . Does either party have a program ? 046266 00001 ramzfan1 - 01 : 32am Jan 23 , 1999 EST ( of 46323 ) } 00002 *Drudge reports Monica is back in Clinton ' s camp and refuses to cooperate with the House managers so Starr has gone to Judge Johnson to revoke Monica ' s immunity and charge her with mutiple felonies ! 046267 00001 ramzfan1 - 01 : 34am Jan 23 , 1999 EST ( of 46323 ) } 00002 *Monica has gone Susan McDougal ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! 046268 00001 r4rw3r4 - 01 : 41am Jan 23 , 1999 EST ( of 46323 ) > 00002 collioure1 1 / 23 / 99 1 : 23am } 00003 * " No evidence of misuse of FBI files " - Ken Starr " No charges referred to Justice on campaign finance " - Fred Thompson " No charges of wrongdoing in the Travel Office firings " - Ken Starr Now if you want to get into S&Ls that is the third rail of politics . If you fleshed that out , there ' d be no goverment left . Do a search for Hyde and Clyde sometime ( I know , sounds like vaudeville ) 046269 00001 klambert4 - 01 : 44am Jan 23 , 1999 EST ( of 46323 ) } 00002 §046270 r4rw3r4 - 01 : 45am Jan 23 , 1999 EST ( of 46323 ) > 00003 ramzfan1 1 / 23 / 99 1 : 34am } 00004 *Monica could go either way . No way to predict . If she does end up in an orange jumpsuit , who knows ? Can ' t wait to see how Byrd reacts to the fact that the US Senate is at the mercy of Ken Starr . 046271 00001 zimtoons1 - 01 : 57am Jan 23 , 1999 EST ( of 46323 ) } 00002 *In the end , Clinton will end up with a censure of some kind . That will be considered a victory by his apologists . The victory being that he was not thrown out of office . How many more wins like that do the Democrats want ? How many more victories like that can they be proud of ? 046272 00001 janetlb - 02 : 01am Jan 23 , 1999 EST ( of 46323 ) +++ 046273 00001 powerside1 - 02 : 01am Jan 23 , 1999 EST ( of 46322 ) } 00002 * " This country cannot afford to be materially rich and spiritually poor . . . . It reminds us of the importance of family . . and the duty we owe to each other . . . . let us all pledge by our devotion to God and family " BILL CLINTON , 10-30-96 > 00003 klambert4 1 / 23 / 99 1 : 44am } 00004 *Senators who have cut Medicare reimbursements } 00005 *Do you mean to tell me that President Clinton vetoed medicare cost cuts , but those evil Senators re-passed the legislation cutting medicare and overcame his veto ? Of course not . In fact , here is an excerpt of PRESIDENT CLINTON ' S SPEECH IN WHICH HE TAKES CREDIT FOR CUTTING MEDICARE REIMBURSEMENTS : " In addition to the discretionary spending cuts , our budget did reduce entitlements , making reductions in agricultural subsidies , asking upper-income recipients of Social Security to pay more tax on their income , lowering reimbursements to Medicare providers , making other adjustments in Medicaid and in veterans ' benefits . Now , all these cuts are already on the books . We are also cutting -- with the help of the Vice President ' s National Performance Review -- over 250 , 000 positions from the federal payrolls , largely by attrition and early retirement over the next five years . We ' re finally attempting to reform the system in ways that will permit us to save billions of more dollars in discretionary spending through reform of personnel budgeting and , most importantly , procurement systems -- if the Congress will authorize all three of those systematic reforms . " December 13 , 1993 , REMARKS BY THE PRESIDENT IN ADDRESSING THE FUTURE OF ENTITLEMENTS CONFERENCE , , Bryn Mawr College Bryn Mawr , Pennsylvania If you don ' t believe Clinton made this speech , here ' s the link . Why do you Clinton apologists always want to blame the things you don ' t like on the GOP , and give Clinton credit for hanging the moon ? How does it feel to be a foot-soldier in the Clinton dis-information campaign ? --> 00006 triton76 - 02 : 01am Jan 23 , 1999 EST ( §§046274 of 46322 ) The GOP House Managers have managed to piss off everyone they come in contact with . They are remorseless , something like termites who keep gnawing away at concepts of " due process " and other concepts necessary for an orderly society to thrive ; and utterly humorless as typified by Rep . Barr of Georgia fame . Rep . Barr is enough to make decent people vomit whenever he comes into view . A more egregious Tartuffe it would be difficult to find . And those are only the " good " things to say about him . In addition , the GOP House Managers are trying exceedingly hard to make sure that noone with an IQ over 38 would ever vote for any of GOP candidate every again , and that the national GOP will be in the remorseless grip of the religious far right , a more disgusting group it would be quite hard to asemble--all led by the stupefyingly stupid Rev . Falwell who thinks the world is going to end as foretold by a fake Messiah , some Jew now living on Earth . With nut cases like that walking around giving guidance to the GOP , who in his or her right mind would ever vote for a GOP candidate ever again ? The GOP is slowly describing itself as the party of bigots , a terrible legacy for the party of the blessed Abraham Lincoln . 046275 00001 janetlb - 02 : 09am Jan 23 , 1999 EST ( of 46322 ) } 00002 *TRITION The Democrats are establishing themselves as the evil party with no morals . It ' s like that here in Hawaii . The dems are mostly Japanese-Americans who really do a lot of illegal things , but on the outside , everyone is supposed to follow traditiions and put on a ' proper ' face . You ' re scolded if you bring up in public some illegal or unethical thing they did . But , they would deny rights to others , etc . to get what they want ; they just don ' t want to talk about it . But , they want to be able to do it . Same as Bill and Hill . . I just look at Democrats and cring . Can you believe they defend such sleaze and have no ethics ? 046276 00001 powerside1 - 02 : 11am Jan 23 , 1999 EST ( of 46322 ) } 00002 * " This country cannot afford to be materially rich and spiritually poor . . . . It reminds us of the importance of family . . and the duty we owe to each other . . . . let us all pledge by our devotion to God and family " BILL CLINTON , 10-30-96 > 00003 triton76 1 / 23 / 99 2 : 01am } 00004 *termites who keep gnawing away at concepts of " due process " } 00005 *Speaking of due process , are a citizen ' s due process rights somehow advanced when the chief law-enforcement officer in the land lies under oath to prevent that citizen from pursuing a civil right claim which the U . S . Supreme Court unanimously said she had a right to pursue in court ? 046277 00001 d-fendr - 02 : 12am Jan 23 , 1999 EST ( of 46322 ) > 00002 triton , } 00003 *I deduce then that you have missed Manager Grahams presentations and rebuttals . Here a taste for you : http : / / www . c-span . org / ram / trial012299 / q30 . ram Your post indicates you are unaware of Manager Hutchinson as well , so here ' s a link to get to know him too : http : / / www . house . gov / judiciary / hutsenate . htm 046278 00001 d-fendr - 02 : 19am Jan 23 , 1999 EST ( of 46322 ) } 00002 *I don ' t think we ' ll see censure . It does no good to pass some paper that says how wretchedly horrible this president is but we accept that as long we can say we think he ' s really a scum . And , I don ' t think the republicans as a whole will support censure . Their position is going to be ( IMHO ) : " Yeah , we know he ' s really horrible , we don ' t accept it , that ' s why we voted to remove him , you had your chance but you didn ' t have the guts or the honor . If you want try to fool people otherwise , go ahead . " 046279 00001 baba108 - 02 : 25am Jan 23 , 1999 EST ( of 46322 ) } 00002 *New York Times , January 22 , 1999 : " With an increasingly important number of Republicans expressing reservations about the wisdom of calling witnesses , Sen . Robert C . Byrd said on Friday that President Clinton ' s impeachment trial should come to a swift end . " 72%72%72%72%72%72%72%72%72%72%72%72% 72%72%72%72%72%72%72%72%72%72%72%72% 72%72%72%72%72%72%72%72%72%72%72%72% 72%72%72%72%72%72%72%72%72%72%72%72% 72%72%72%72%72%72%72%72%72%72% . . . Get it ? Good ! +++ 046280 00001 baba108 - 02 : 30am Jan 23 , 1999 EST ( of 46321 ) } 00002 *Bob Byrd obviously gets it ! Pat Robertson gets it ! Even Jerry Falwell gets it ! This could become a stampede ! 046281 00001 d-fendr - 02 : 30am Jan 23 , 1999 EST ( of 46321 ) > 00002 baba , } 00003 *I don ' t think those IQ scores of yours are anything to be bragging about , much less repeating 58 times . 046282 00001 tiger410 - 02 : 32am Jan 23 , 1999 EST ( of 46321 ) } 00002 *yesterdays rebuttal by WH defence council was very poor , at the very begining charles ruff has to apologise for mis-leading the senate regards to betty currie issue . the follow questions were either not answered by WH defence council or were vaguely responded : 1 . to the question as to why WJC should have ordered for polls just after when WJC jad perjured himself in PJ deposition . ? ? 2 . would the defence council convict federal judges for the same crimes the president is accused of . ? ? 3 . why there is a contradiction in WJC testimony & Monica ' s one regard the return of gifts- as to who took initiative ? ? 4 . the legal hairspliting of words by WJC ? ? so many questions remained unanswered , instead the WH decided to question the Rep . as if they are the accused ? ? what a pity ? in a great democracy such as of United States of America . 046283 00001 baba108 - 02 : 35am Jan 23 , 1999 EST ( of 46321 ) } 00002 *Oh well ! I suppose it would be asking a bit much to hope that everyone would get it . 046284 00001 d-fendr - 02 : 36am Jan 23 , 1999 EST ( of 46321 ) > 00002 tiger , } 00003 *The president ' s lawyers ( which we ' re paying for by the way ) have yet to give anything approaching a credible defense on coaching of witnesses / obstruction . But they could have said the President was actually a robot and the dems would have said , " see , he ' s been defended . " I think the dems and the media lost sight of the evidence some time back . That ' s what Harkins objection was all about : " Wait a minute , we don ' t have to make a decision based on the evidence if we don ' t want to . " It ' s the OJ trial on a grander scale . Complete with race card . 046285 00001 baba108 - 02 : 40am Jan 23 , 1999 EST ( of 46321 ) > 00002 d-fendr 1 / 23 / 99 2 : 38am } 00003 *And then there are those precious few who may never get it ! 046286 00001 baba108 - 02 : 46am Jan 23 , 1999 EST ( of 46321 ) } 00002 *Its awfully quiet . . . maybe he got it . 046287 00001 d-fendr - 02 : 47am Jan 23 , 1999 EST ( of 46321 ) > 00002 baba , } 00003 *Get it ? You mean get that there are those who think that justice and guilt or innocence should be determined by a popularity poll ? You mean get that although three out of four Americans think Clinton lied under oath and obstructed justice , the Senate should vote to acquit him of the same charges , cause they don ' t want him removed from office ? You mean get that some would only apply the law and the constitution to people they don ' t like and would give charming criminals a pass ? You mean get it that some think as long as they think someone is doing a good job , criminal offenses should be overlooked ? You mean get that some are happy to be on what the think is the winning side never caring whether they are on the right side ? Is that what you mean by " get it " ? I get it . Get it ? 046288 00001 baba108 - 02 : 51am Jan 23 , 1999 EST ( of 46321 ) > 00002 d-fendr 1 / 23 / 99 2 : 47am} 00003 *No . No . He hasn ' t got it . 046289 00001 d-fendr - 02 : 53am Jan 23 , 1999 EST ( of 46321 ) > 00002 baba , } 00003 *I don ' t have time to educate you on our representative form of government , take a civics course . Perhaps there is a remedial one offered near you . +++ 046290 00001 baba108 - 02 : 56am Jan 23 , 1999 EST ( of 46321 ) > 00002 d-fendr 1 / 23 / 99 2 : 53am } 00003 * " reprentative " } 00004 *Oh well . . . we ' re none of us perfect . 046291 00001 d-fendr - 03 : 00am Jan 23 , 1999 EST ( of 46321 ) > 00002 baba , } 00003 *Sorry , you are referring to your misspelling ? You brag about the darndest things . Low IQ scores , lack of knowledge of government systems and now spelling errors . 046292 00001 mcrademd - 03 : 05am Jan 23 , 1999 EST ( of 46321 ) } 00002 *who is on the annoying one cent stamps ? monica of course . You provide the reasons : she ' s cheap , boxy , and easy to lick ? 046293 00001 d-fendr - 03 : 10am Jan 23 , 1999 EST ( of 46321 ) > 00002 baba , } 00003 *Maybe it ' s the drugs kicking in on you again . Well , baba , it ' s been fun , not very enlightening and certainly not what I ' d call a substantive debate , but a bit humorous anyway . Goodnight posters and lurkers . Peace 046294 00001 snoop42 - 03 : 18am Jan 23 , 1999 EST ( of 46321 ) > 00002 d-fendr , } 00003 *You ' re assuming that Clinton is guilty . Look at it the other way , that what he did isn ' t our business or the business of the congress and that the schmuck Republicans in congress are exploiting it for political reasons and in the process making our country the laughing stock of the world . Take a reality check . What ' s important here ? We elect congress yet congress completely ignores us goes ahead with a trial to remove from office a President with a 73% popularity rating . Is that your idea of representative govt ? ? ? ? 046295 00001 baba108 - 03 : 20am Jan 23 , 1999 EST ( of 46321 ) > 00002 d-fendr 1 / 23 / 99 2 : 59am } 00003 *Perhaps if I tried to explain it . . . Once there was a President of the United States who pissed off a really lot of people . So they went after him . They tried ever so many " gates , " but just never could corner him . Then they discovered that he had been very naughty with ML and had even stretched the truth pretty much to new limits in his effort to hide it . Now they had him ! But wait ! Unbelievable ! Most of the people who elected him thought he was doing a fine job as President of the United States and just plain didn ' t go for the idea that his transgressions really ought to be described as " high crimes and misdemeanors . " Eventually some of his pursuers began to GET IT and drew away from the pack . Eventually almost everyone -with a few exceptions- GOT IT and the whole matter simply faded into history . ( Please pardon my lapse at the end of this tale . As the man said , " It ain ' t over ' til its over ! " Just a guess . We ' ll see , won ' t we ? 046296 00001 snoop42 - 03 : 28am Jan 23 , 1999 EST ( of 46321 ) > 00002 baba108 } 00003 *That ' s exactly right . The irony in the whole thing is the conservatives who are supposed to be so righteous , when actually they ' re just as adulterous as Clinton and are straining the limits of democratic govt to achieve their own political agenda . The end justifies the means and democracy goes in the trash . 046297 00001 baba108 - 03 : 32am Jan 23 , 1999 EST ( of 46321 ) > 00002 snoop42 1 / 23 / 99 3 : 28am } 00003 * " and democracy goes in the trash . " } 00004 *Being from Boulder , I prefer to think of it as a recycling bin . 046298 00001 tiger410 - 03 : 41am Jan 23 , 1999 EST ( of 46321 ) > 00002 d-fendr ! } 00003 *it requires commonsense , sincerity , will to uphold justice & then to punish the guilty . the american people are so excited in leting WJC get away with his high crimes that they are blindfolded by WJC salessmanship his charm that they care a damn for democracy , justice , equality & principle of truth . one do
hope that the polls are manipulated one by WH as had been proved beyond doubt that when WJC perjured himself in Jones deposition , the first thing he did was ask Dick Morris to condict the polls . I think WJC & his WH staff , his friends are manipulating and are setting things in media . How can one explain that a Lleading Dem already deciding that the trial should be dismissed without going to its ligical conclusion & completing the process ? ? DEM are applying bi-partisanship methods . It is plain simple fact that WJC committed perjury & obstructed justice . Does ' nt the polls themselves suggest that overwhelming majority of the people believes that WJC lies under oath , obstructed justice . The polls conducted by Dick Morris at WJC instance themselves proves the charges leveled against WJC . It altogether a different thing that few emotionally blackmailed WJC fans does not want to remove him come what may crime had been committed by WJC . pity for democracy , equality , justice 7 the people who are in jail for such & other petty crimes . 046299 00001 baba108 - 03 : 44am Jan 23 , 1999 EST ( of 46321 ) > 00002 tiger410 1 / 23 / 99 3 : 41am }
00003 *another one who doesn ' t get it ! Hello ! 72% of us are trying to say something ! +++ 046300 00001 baba108 - 03 : 55am Jan 23 , 1999 EST ( of 46320 ) > 00002 tiger410 1 / 23 / 99 3 : 41am } 00003 *Perhaps if I tried to explain it . . . Once there was a President of the United States who pissed off a really lot of people . So they went after him . They tried ever so many " gates , " but just never could corner him . Then they discovered that he had been very naughty with ML and had even stretched the truth pretty much to new limits in his effort to hide it . Now they had him ! But wait ! Unbelievable ! Most of the people who elected him thought he was doing a fine job as President of the United States and just plain didn ' t go for the idea that his transgressions really ought to be described as " high crimes and misdemeanors . " Eventually some of his pursuers began to GET IT and drew away from the pack . Eventually almost everyone -with a few exceptions- GOT IT and the whole matter simply faded into history . ( Please pardon my lapse at the end of this tale . As the man said , " It ain ' t over ' til its over ! " Just a guess . We ' ll see , won ' t we ? ( I could try explaining some of the more difficult points if you like . But I think that if you kind of ruminate on the 72% part it might eventually come clear . ) 046301 00001 tiger410 - 04 : 02am Jan 23 , 1999 EST ( of 46320 ) > 00002 baba108 ! } 00003 *72% of what 72% of minority vote ( 2% ) who jumps to conclusion at the drop of hat ? ? the silent majority ( 98% ) don ' t so give it easily they wait till the whole & clear picture comes out . don ' t be so easily swayed away by WJC big talks ( lies to coverup & get away ) what happen to Iraq ? ? what happened to Saddham ? ? WJC tried & is trying all tricks to fool people like you who do not apply their own mind . You are putting things in the silent majority ' s mouth , who by the way won ' t accept it . the bottomline is do America needs a president who had lied under oath , who had committed such henious acts at place of work , who had obstructed justice & who had used UN to coverup ? what are the americans like you telling the world ? ? are ' nt people like you already embarraced by WJC Iraq ' s mis-adventur ? ? surpassing the UN ? ? ( when infact the security council was in session ) WJC used Richard Buttler to give report which suited WJC to order attack on Irag on the same day the vote on impeachment was to take place . did not WJC was trying to play to the & with galary & american
people ' s emotion ? By the way let ' s be clear nobody , to repeat nobody supported WJC in his Iraq mis-adventure , america has to support as it had to accept the blunderof its president 046302 00001 baba108 - 04 : 06am Jan 23 , 1999 EST ( of 46320 ) tiger410 1 / 23 / 99 4 : 02am Oh well . . . I tried . 046303 00001 tiger410 - 04 : 06am Jan 23 , 1999 EST ( of 46320 ) > 00002 baba , } 00003 *don ' t be evasive as WJC is , don ' t tell cock& bull stories . be straight & to the point . remember no DEM nor Starr told WJC to do what he did in white house with a govt employee , nor did anyone advised to lie under oath , to perjured himself before grand jury , to lie to the american people so bluntly , to follow such course of action so as to coverup without caring for the rule of law , justice & caring for truth & without thinking that he is the president of united states . 046304 00001 tna1pada3 - 11 : 26am Jan 23 , 1999 EST ( of 46320 ) } 00002 * " It ain ' t over til it ' s over " } 00003 *They just want to win too much . Pathetic efforts to prolong the agony not just of President Clinton and of his family but also of the nation must convince all persons of conscience and goodwill the house managers are desperate to continue a process which they know in their hearts is lost . 046305 00001 tna1pada3 - 11 : 36am Jan 23 , 1999 EST ( of 46320 ) } 00002 * " It ain ' t over til it ' s over " The emerging bitterness and harsh language used not just by the house managers and the White House counsel in the well of the Senate chamber but also of the individual senators in the hallway press conferences was presaged by the press release issued by Senator Robert C . Byrd . The conscience of the senate has determined the institutions of the presidency and of the senate demand the dismissal of the articles . Prior to his announcement even republican senators honored the wisdom and integrity of Senator Byrd . Now . . . 046306 00001 jlaing11 - 11 : 37am Jan 23 , 1999 EST ( of 46320 ) > 00002 hi ada . } 00003 *how is it gooing ? 046307 00001 tna1pada3 - 11 : 41am Jan 23 , 1999 EST ( of 46320 ) } 00002 * " It ain ' t over til it ' s over " > 00003 jlaing11 1 / 23 / 99 11 : 37am } 00004 *Fine , Doc . Hows by you ? Did you know images and sounds can ' t be posted any more ? That is , I can ' t get a post containing either to post . Wonder what gives . . . 046308 00001 dogbert85 - 11 : 44am Jan 23 , 1999 EST ( of 46320 ) } 00002 *Conservative definition : A lower primate with a Bible in one hand and a bomb in the other . I ' m tired of the right-wing ' s use of the word " liberal " as a derisive term when it is the " conservative " label that currently deserves derision . This republican-only impeachment only serves to show how out-of-touch and obsessed these reactionaries are with " getting Clinton " , while leaving the nation ' s business undone . The arguments in this 2-bit scandal have been bandied about for over a year now , and still no minds have been changed on either side . If Clinton were truly guilty of impeachable crimes , the Democrats would have climbed aboard the impeachment express long ago . Ken Starr continues his strong arm tactics in the Kathleen Willey " scandal " and it appears he will be investigating Clinton until both are old men . The American public is tired of the G ( et ) O ( urs ) P ( arty ) of inquisition that does nothing but run obsessed witchhunts . They will pay the price in 2000 by going to minority status in Congress , and losing the presidency again . Power to the people . 046309 00001 tna1pada3 - 11 : 46am Jan 23 , 1999 EST ( of 46320 ) } 00002 * " It ain ' t over til it ' s over " +++ 046310 00001 butler5555 - 11 : 47am Jan 23 , 1999 EST ( of 46319 ) } 00002 *Anti-conviction senators are working with pro-impeachment senators to help them find a face-saving way to exit . I think it only right that anti-conviction posters to help pro-conviction posters in a similar way . One idea comes to mind : The anti-Clinton folks can magnify the House impeachment as a black mark on Clinton ' s record . 046311 00001 tna1pada3 - 11 : 49am Jan 23 , 1999 EST ( of 46319 ) } 00002 * " It ain ' t over til it ' s over " Impeachment is as dead as a doornail Republican Don ' t Know Which Direction to Go ! Unless Republicans agree to censure , there will be no punishment --> 046312 00001 jlaing11 - 11 : 49am Jan 23 , 1999 EST ( of 46319 ) > 00002 tna1pada3 1 / 23 / 99 11 : 46am } 00003 *True , what a bummer . Probably saving bandwidth . : - ( 046313 00001 dogbert85 - 11 : 51am Jan 23 , 1999 EST ( of 46319 ) } 00002 *Conservative definition : A lower primate with a Bible in one hand and a bomb in the other . We may have 2 history books out of this " Scandal " . One highlighting the RWers view and one highlighting everyone else ' s . 046314 00001 empeegee - 11 : 52am Jan 23 , 1999 EST ( of 46319 ) } 00002 *So how does everyone feel about the House Managers calling Ken Starr ( chamber ) into the fray ? 046315 00001 jlaing11 - 11 : 57am Jan 23 , 1999 EST ( of 46319 ) > 00002 empeegee 1 / 23 / 99 11 : 52am } 00003 *The house should have gotten their ducks in a row before presenting their case . 046316 00001 dogbert85 - 11 : 57am Jan 23 , 1999 EST ( of 46319 ) } 00002 *Conservative definition : A lower primate with a Bible in one hand and a bomb in the other . > 00003 empeegee } 00004 * " So how does everyone feel about the House Managers calling Ken Starr ( chamber ) into the fray ? " } 00005 *The House managers appear to be petty , obsessed nitwits that keep shooting themselves in the foot . Reno should fire Starr after the trial is over and put him and everyone else out of thier misery . 046317 00001 southerndeb - 11 : 59am Jan 23 , 1999 EST ( of 46319 ) } 00002 * " Hey , Boo . " Miss Jean Louise Finch I just read Judge Wright is compelling Monica to cooperate with Starr one more time . This is getting beyond a joke . 046318 00001 5085201814 - 12 : 00pm Jan 23 , 1999 EST ( of 46319 ) } 00002 *I hope that Hillary and Chelsie understand that their husband and dad did nothing that millions of other husbands and dads have done . The big difference was there was no scum bag like Ken Star to publish the revoltng details of the other philandering husbands and fathers . We all know he shouldn ' t have done it . We all know he was wrong . He even admitted and apologized . What the hell more does the party of hate and divisivness want . The reason most of us stood by him was because of the rotten forces that were working to oust him . They are a lot more dangerous than Bill Clinton ' s sexual transgressions , and the majority of the American people understand that . 046319 00001 dogbert85 - 12 : 00pm Jan 23 , 1999 EST ( of 46319 ) } 00002 *Conservative definition : A lower primate with a Bible in one hand and a bomb in the other . > 00003 Deb ! } 00004 *Can anyone talk sense into the House managers ? Maybe you should give it a go , Hyde has an eye for a pretty face . LOL +++ 990125 049297 00001 d-fendr - 03 : 15am Jan 25 , 1999 EST ( of 49340 ) > 00002 baba , baba108 1 / 25 / 99 3 : 13am } 00003 *Yes , indeedy , touché . 049298 00001 dbashaggy - 03 : 16am Jan 25 , 1999 EST ( of 49340 ) } 00002 *Sorry , got booted out off by my isp . Back again . Well , one site you may think by the URL is pinko , but oh well , here are two I still have . http : / / www . thegrid . net / clear / domestic . htm#domestic http : / / www . webcom . com / pinknoiz / covert / irancontra . html If you ' ll note , the first has links for Clinton scandals too , just for equal time . 049299 00001 d-fendr - 03 : 18am Jan 25 , 1999 EST ( of 49340 ) > 00002 baba , }
00003 *You might find this hard to believe , but I really don ' t hate Clinton . I hate that he ' s done the damage he ' s done , and that he ' s in the position of power that he ' s in , and that justice will not be done . all that I hate . But honestly , I think he ' s , from all I can tell a quite likeable person . I have lots of friends who have weaknesses , I got lots myself . I have been a lout and friends with louts . I think I would really love to have dinner and beers with Bill . But I wouldn ' t want him near my sister , or my White House . : ) 049300 00001 dbashaggy - 03 : 19am Jan 25 , 1999 EST ( of 49340 ) } 00002 *You can also use Thomas on the internet , and search for Iran-Contra documents through the government , if you don ' t trust independent sites . That way you can pull up the Walsh report itself , but trust me , it is the same as on those sites . 049301 00001 d-fendr - 03 : 21am Jan 25 , 1999 EST ( of 49340 ) > 00002 dbashaggy , } 00003 *Thanks , bookmarked them both to look at later . Hey , one of them even had a section on " Scandals Under Clinton " Can ' t be an all bad site . . : ) 049302 00001 brainweather - 03 : 21am Jan 25 , 1999 EST ( of 49340 ) } 00002 *I ' d might sit down for a beer with K . Starr just out of morbid curiosity , but I ' d do everything possible to talk him out of running for elected or appointed government office . 049303 00001 d-fendr - 03 : 23am Jan 25 , 1999 EST ( of 49340 ) > 00002 baba , } 00003 *But Hillary ? hmm , something tells me she ' s not the kind of person I ' d want to go out partying with . It even makes me feel a bit sorry for Bill , except that she ' s likely saved his rear on many an occasion , this one for example . 049304 00001 bernierd - 03 : 23am Jan 25 , 1999 EST ( of 49340 ) } 00002 *source : http : / / abcnews . go . com / sections / us / dailynews / clinton_testimony_1 . html QUESTION : Did you talk with Ms . Lewinsky about what she meant to write in her affidavit ? CLINTON : I didn ' t talk to her about her definition . I did not know what was in this affidavit before it was filled out , specifically . I did not know what words was used-were used specifically before it was filled out or what meaning she gave to them . But I ' m just telling you that it ' s certainly true what she says here , that we didn ' t have-there was no employment or benefit in exchange . There was nothing having anything to do with sexual harassment . And if she defined sexual relationship in the way I think most Americans do , meaning intercourse , then she told the truth . I say : Question NOT answered at all . David 049305 00001 dbashaggy - 03 : 25am Jan 25 , 1999 EST ( of 49340 ) > 00002 brainweather . . . } 00003 *No , but hey that consortiumnews site brought tears to this just approaching middle age liberal ' s eyes . Hard to believe that there are actually some of us around that love the X-Files connection thing . 049306 00001 d-fendr - 03 : 26am Jan 25 , 1999 EST ( of 49340 ) > 00002 brainweather : } 00003 *I think Starr would not be a fun running buddy at all , and likely quite boring , I also hear he ' s quite uptight . Nah , not someone I ' d want to hang with . I think I would want him as a judge though . He ' s honorable enough for that , and judgemental enough , without being megalomaniacal . We likely disagree , but I ' d vote for him for judge . Not pres or rep or senator , but judge . And definitely no invites to him to the keg party . +++ 049307 00001 baba108 - 03 : 27am Jan 25 , 1999 EST ( of 49339 ) > 00002 d-fendr 1 / 25 / 99 3 : 13am } 00003 *I can ' t help thinking that a simple resolution that we all agree that however reprehensible his actions may have been , there can be no doubt that in the minds of a sufficient number of duly elected senators and in the voices of a large majority of the American people , these actions were judged not to be sufficient cause to remove the President from office . Is that not after all the crux of the argument ? 049308 00001 brainweather - 03 : 29am Jan 25 , 1999 EST ( of 49339 ) > 00002 dbashaggy : } 00003 *Your quite welcome . I picked it up for the Henry Can ' t Hyde article . 049309 00001 dbashaggy - 03 : 33am Jan 25 , 1999 EST ( of 49339 ) > 00002 d-fender } 00003 *Just so you know where I am coming from , my mother , as part of the NEA ( teacher ' s association ) helped campaign for Clinton , met many people involved , and my mom and dad met Clinton at the inauguration . My dad went to the University of Chicago in the early sixties , and his advisor there was George Shultz , yes , the same Secretary of State . My dad worked with the Indiana government for a while , but mainly taught college and did consulting work . In the meantime , he met and knew many political people , and much of my background comes from the characterizations I heard from these two very intelligent people that raised me . I don ' t suppose you would want to know what a friend of my mom ' s said about Reagan . . . . but they both agree that Clinton is very intelligent , and also very sincere about helping ordinary people . As far as the scandal , I wouldn ' t want to be the one to debate with my dad on where Clinton ' s fits with the others in history . . . . he was a great debater in school also . 049310 00001 d-fendr - 03 : 34am Jan 25 , 1999 EST ( of 49339 ) > 00002 bernierd , } 00003 *I ' d say question answered in part , great attempt at wiggle room . I ' d say a jury would have to say the president intended to convey that he did not discuss her affadavit and that he considered her statement about sex to be true according to his view of what most americans think ' sexual relationship ' means . He ' s a good liar . That ' s why they gave the definition of ' sexual relations ' and referred him to it so often . Cuts down on the wiggle room . Problem for him is ( besides it being obvious that he is trying to say he hardly knew her in the first testimony and that he had an intimate relationship with her in the second ) the problem is that under any definition of ' sexual relationship ' he ' s caught in his lie . That ' s further on in the testimony . But yeah , that ' s about as close to not answering as an answer can get . but there ' s ' enough there to say he was denying coaching her on her affadavit , and that if she meant sexual intercourse , her statement was true . 049311 00001 brainweather - 03 : 39am Jan 25 , 1999 EST ( of 49339 ) > 00002 dbashaggy wrote : I don ' t suppose you would want to know what a friend of my mom ' s said about Reagan . . . I do , I do . 049312 00001 d-fendr - 03 : 40am Jan 25 , 1999 EST ( of 49339 ) > 00002 dbashaggy , } 00003 *Thanks for the background . I ' ve been close to politicians too , and I had to bail , it ' s stinks a lot , and many of those in it are required to become quite the prostitute , not to mention phoney . There is also great power , so the temptation and potential for corrumption is very great and often succumbed too . I guess were we differ in this thread so far is whatever Reagan or Bush did , though I do like their philosophy , whatever they did should be prosecuted the same as Clinton . And if they did worse , that does not excuse Clinton . He ' s responsible for his wrongs , and they theirs . It ' s just not good to excuse someone because others did the same , or worse , no matter how much I like them or how much I wish I were the one who got to decide who has follow the law . These guys have enough power , exempting them from the laws is way too much . Sometimes it ' s all we got to protect us . 049313 00001 dbashaggy - 03 : 42am Jan 25 , 1999 EST ( of 49339 ) > 00002 brainweather . . . } 00003 *Well , OK , but it really isn ' t too nice now that he has problems , but here it is . Her friend lived in Los Angeles at the time , and this was just before he was running for governor of California . She said that he was one of the dumbest people she met out there , and was only a fair actor . She said though he was best when he had a script to follow . 049314 00001 brainweather - 03 : 48am Jan 25 , 1999 EST ( of 49339 ) > 00002 dbashaggy : } 00003 *Thanks , g ' nite all . 049315 00001 baba108 - 03 : 50am Jan 25 , 1999 EST ( of 49339 ) > 00002 d-fendr 1 / 25 / 99 3 : 40am } 00003 *These guys have enough power , exempting them from the laws is way too much Sometimes it ' s all we got to protect us . Absolutely ! And what have we been watching through all the posturing and hype and media bs but the slow , inevitable process of law . And indeed , the highest law of this land , the US Constitution . Set aside everything else ( even including the polls ) and we still stand in the same place . Guilty ? Perhaps . But not sufficient cause to remove from office . The law will speak . How many will accept it is my question . 049316 00001 dbashaggy - 03 : 51am Jan 25 , 1999 EST ( of 49339 ) > 00002 d-fender } 00003 *I think the real problem is we are seeing politicians still used to the old order that whatever they do , it is in the interest of national security to leave alone . Now that scandals pop up right and left ( like the analogy ) I think we need to come up with nationally a way of dealing with politicians who do things that may be against the law , may be questionable , or may be borderline treasonous . But so far all we can come up with as a nation is to call the other side names , drag people through the mud , and twist things around so much ordinary people don ' t want anything to do with government , or in the future , don ' t enter politics because they did something in the past that is questionable , yet they are still a decent person . No one is without sin . This independent counsel thing is ridiculous , they are not independent . What we need to do , who knows , because I for one do believe that some things that the president does do need to be secret . We need someone in power we not only trust , but that makes decisions that are necessary that will not be second guessed after the fact . After all , these guys make decisions on people ' s lives every day . How much of it should be public . . . I don ' t believe all should be . And this thing about personal lives . Either all or nothing , either everyone ' s in the public eye should be OK to view , or no ones . +++ 049317 00001 d-fendr - 03 : 52am Jan 25 , 1999 EST ( of 49339 ) > 00002 baba , baba108 1 / 25 / 99 3 : 27am } 00003 *I think if there were a way , legally , constitutionally it would have been found by now . It ' s a quandry . I think a lot , maybe a majority would like to say , yep , he ' s guilty , but let him finish his term . Problem is if he ' s guilty of perjury before a federal grand jury and obstruction of justice multiple counts - those are heavy duty felonies , even if it was all done to cover up a traffic ticket or whatever . It ' s the gravity of these crimes that the problem , regardless of why he did it . Once it gets to this level , the best a judge could do , if the defendant was guilty , the best the judge could do would be give the minimum sentence . But in this case , the minimum sentence is removal from office . It ' s not really a sentence , but . . Anyway , that ' s the quandry . The other way is basically jury nullification : to say , yeah he ' s guilty but I don ' t want him removed ( or the prosecution was grossly malfeasant ) so I ' m gonna say not guilty , even though I think he is guilty as charged . And then you have a real problem he next time you try to impeach a president or a judge , cause it ' s now relavant whether you want to remove him , whether he ' s popular , and whether the underlying motive was big or small . Not to mention the next president who wishes to push the envelope a bit further . You know where I stand , but I think something that is most obvious to me is that a good leader would resign rather than cause such damage to increase and continue . I ' m assuming that if he resigned the Senate would vote to adjurn , a safe assumption I think . . it could even be agreed to beforehand . He ' s certainly disgraced himself enough to warrant it , and he could do so and even come out a hero , make bucks , even run again for president or another office . To me , resignation is the best way to go for everybody involved . That would be the best of a bad situation . 049318 00001 d-fendr - 03 : 54am Jan 25 , 1999 EST ( of 49339 ) > 00002 dbashaggy , } 00003 *I think we ' re even agreeing . The OIC is a necessary evil , but needs to be greatly revised . You can ' t leave everything to the AG , the fox guarding the henhouse , but the OIC is too easy to abuse . It ' s too carte blanche . Maybe something good will actually come out of all this . 049319 00001 brainweather - 03 : 59am Jan 25 , 1999 EST ( of 49339 ) } 00002 *Last comment . If something good comes of all this , I hope it is a trend away from what has been happening in the Grand Jury system in the last thirty years . That is an insideous creeping civil liberties threat of the highest order for this century . 049320 00001 lkhays - 03 : 59am Jan 25 , 1999 EST ( of 49339 ) } 00002 *Keith Hays , Country Lawyer > 00003 trajan12 1 / 24 / 99 5 : 05pm } 00004 *And that , Ladies and Gents , is another predictable use of the boring " Nazi Germany " analogy that liberals throw at Conservatives when they don ' t have anything to say in response to a comment they disagree with . Don ' t deal with the details and respond , just suggest they ' re a Hitler-loving " Fascist " . Our thanks to Keith Hays , Country Village Idiot . He didn ' t deal with the topic , but he sure is quick with those leftwing cliches . Thanks , dude Ok , Trajan12 , lets deal with the topic to which I was responding , which was your comment , your words as follows : The day they let that psycho [Hinckley] out is the day I take my Beretta out and use it on something other than a paper target . He ' ll never get outta that nuthouse , not alive anyway . No shooter of an American President should EVER walk out again . But if someone shoots Clinton , and I would never do so of course , they should pin some Vietnam Veteran ' s Purple Heart on him , as a token on behalf of all the men and women who answered their nation ' s call and took a bullet Clinton didn ' t have the guts to risk taking himself Is it reasoned discourse to so openly call for a political assassination ? Do you really arrogate to yourself the right to execute John Hinckley ? Trajan 12 or Wulfgar99 or what ever new imperial or Teutonic pseudonym you choose to hide behind , is this truly what you wish America to become ? Big deal you had a brother who didn ' t like squatting in the rice paddies in ' Nam . So felt a lot of other peoples ' brothers . Did they all write home and whine about it too ? Tell your brother I ' m truly sorry he had to do his duty and fight against a Communist enemy that made the raiding of small rural villages and the murder of innocent hill people a daily occurrence . I ' m sure he ' s right , WE are the real enemy , aren ' t we . Also tell him I ' m ashamed our government wasn ' t smart and enlightened enough to realize your brother should have been the country ' s #1 source for expertise on Foreign Policy , what a dern shame , what a loss for America ! Your brother had ALL the answers , and we didn ' t listen to him ? OH GOD NO ! The whining of America , that too is a legacy of Vietnam . No , son , I have a brother who went to war and who wrote home because he found out that the war he was asked to fight was too often against women and children in a quest for body counts . I have a brother who put his life on the line repeatedly and who was decorated for his bravery . I have a brother who volunteered for a second hitch not because he believed in the war he was fighting but because he did not feel he could come home when his buddies had to stay . I have a brother who is a hero but who recognized that the war he was called upon to fight bore no resemblance to the wars his uncles had fought at Bastogne and the Philippines or that his cousins had fought at the Chosin Reservoir . I ' m proud of my brother . He is a patriot , a quality that you will never understand or appreciate . So you go on pointing your pistol at imagined enemies and continue to fantasize about murdering those you dislike . Its good exercise for your superior intellect . +++ 049321 00001 wernergraf - 04 : 01am Jan 25 , 1999 EST ( of 49339 ) > 00002 d-fendr : } 00003 * " Problem is if he ' s guilty of perjury before a federal grand jury and obstruction of justice " } 00004 *WRONG ! ! ! There can be no " guilty " before a Grand Jury ! A Grand Jury hands down an indicment . In this case , the Grand Jury even handed down nothing . All that resulted from the Grand Jury investigation , was the Starr " referral " . Until convicted by a jury of peers in a court of law , nobody is " guilty " . The Grand Jury is not that court of law . Only if the Senate convicts , then he would be " guilty " . Stop distorting the facts ! ! 049322 00001 baba108 - 04 : 01am Jan 25 , 1999 EST ( of 49339 ) > 00002 d-fendr 1 / 25 / 99 3 : 52am } 00003 * " It ' s the gravity of these crimes that ' s the problem , regardless of why he did it . " } 00004 *And isn ' t that exactly the question ? High crimes and misdemeanors ? Yes . . . he ' s out . No . . . he stays . To get a ' yes ' requires more votes than are there apparently . So its ' no . ' End of discussion . What ' s next ? 049323 00001 wernergraf - 04 : 06am Jan 25 , 1999 EST ( of 49339 ) > 00002 d-fendr : } 00003 *I ' ll be waiting for your answer . I ' ll check back later . 049324 00001 d-fendr - 04 : 12am Jan 25 , 1999 EST ( of 49339 ) > 00002 baba , } 00003 *It ' s obvious that many are having a problem saying ' not guilty ' and letting that be it . If he were obviously not guilty ( I ' d argue he ' s obviously guilty ) , then it would be easy , we wouldn ' t have all this side show , Byrd would have said he ' s not guilty , many Repubs would say he ' s not guilty , they ' d move for a vote and it ' s over . But , to your point . It looks likely that there will be enough votes saying ' not guilty ' Some senators will feel comfortable with saying Bill didn ' t do anything that wrong , shame on you for trying to hurt him . but a lot of senators will have a problem , political or otherwise , with just letting Clinton off the hook . . . that ' s where censure comes in . . and the Repubs , if they are smart IMHO , will say , ' hey , we knew he was all those terrible things you ' re putting in the censure , that ' s why we voted to throw the bum out - you had your chance , no deal . ' so the direction will be to make the censure tougher and tougher to get the Republicans on board . But then any censure that punishes runs into the problem of being a bill of attainder expressly prohibited under the constitution . And if it is sleazed around by making it ' voluntary ' then you have the problem of Bill ' s not gonna admit to anything or take any punishmet , why should he ? He can win an acquital . It ' s gonna be interesting to see how it works out . I still say , resignation is the best of a bad situation . Everybody can win , even Bill - he ' s a hero , doin for the good of the country , Al ' s in and Bill ' s still got a bud in the big house , he and Hillary retire to start some foundation and continue the good fight , run for office again , whatever . . 049325 00001 jwarrilow - 04 : 14am Jan 25 , 1999 EST ( of 49339 ) > 00002 d-fendr } 00003 * ( or the prosecution was grossly malfeasant ) Perhaps not necessarily malfeasance as we were discussing last night-- But certainly negligent for the lack of foresight the HJC Republicans gave to several considerations hovering barely beyond the end of their collective noses . With this particular brand of intellect-- I can assure you that one thought will be running through my mind when I pull the levers in Y2K : It is now and forever impossible for me to trust Republicans with a majority in the House . And depending on their actions in the Senate this week ( God forbid they continue to listen to Hyde ! ) -- I ' ll render my personal judgement on the upper chamber regarding same . JW 049326 00001 d-fendr - 04 : 18am Jan 25 , 1999 EST ( of 49339 ) > 00002 wernergraf : } 00003 *Clinton is charged under the articles of impeachment with ' perjury before a federal grand jury ' A federal judge was removed from office for this offense ( many of the dems currently in he senate voted to remove him ) for this offense . So , to focus on my point . Perjury before a grand jury is a major no-no , and has been grounds for impeachment and removal before . My point was this is a serious offense in the eyes of the senate , no matter the underlying case - in judge Nixon ' s case it was also about a civil suit . It is considered so serious that several top democrats warned Clinton before his testimony , not to lie , that if he did there would be serious consequences . And thank you for your discussion . 049327 00001 klambal - 04 : 22am Jan 25 , 1999 EST ( of 49339 ) } 00002 *STARR ' S ACTION TO COLLABORATE WITH HOUSE MANAGERS TO QUESTION MONICA LEWINSKY POSES A THREAT TO RULE OF LAW . AND WHY DID RENQUIST AVOID ACTION ON SEN . HARKIN ' S LETTER ? MONICA AND HER ATTORNEY ASSERT SHE GAVE NOTHING NEW , WHILE THE CROOKED MANAGERS LIKE MCCULLEM AND HUTCHINSON CLAIM THEY GOT A LOT . SENATE MUST ASSERT ITS CONSTITUTIONAL AUTHORITY AND ADMONISH THE GUILTY MANAGERS . DOJ MUST ALSO PUNISH STARR IF NOT REMOVE THIS " JUDGE " WHO IS VIOLATING LAW OF THE LAND . 049328 00001 baba108 - 04 : 23am Jan 25 , 1999 EST ( of 49339 ) > 00002 d-fendr 1 / 25 / 99 4 : 12am } 00003 * ( I ' d argue he ' s obviously guilty ) Maybe i ' m missing something here : Ofcourse he ' s guilty ! But is my question irrelevant : Is he guilty of high crimes and misdemeanors as defined by the Constitution ? NO ! He is not . Why not ? Because the US Senate is about to say he is not . Let Ken take him to court . Who really gives a damn . But he cannot be removed from office if the verdict is NOT GUILTY . If this doesn ' t make sense help me out . 049329 00001 d-fendr - 04 : 24am Jan 25 , 1999 EST ( of 49339 ) > 00002 jwarrilo , } 00003 *I think you are on the right track as far as the democrats are concerned . I think they , and the WH , are doing as much as possible to give the democrats that cover . The OIC was so full of misconduct you can vote not guilty , er , legally , even though the evidence stinks . And I think that will help many democrats . Some don ' t even need that much , but it will help several others justify a not guilty vote . But I don ' t think it will help all of them enough , politically or otherwise . And then you have the leadership which has to take the national view , and most americans think Clinton is guilty of perjury and obstruction and deserves some kind of punishment ( not removal ) and if he gets off free and starts celebrating , well . . You ' re back to censure again . . +++ 049330 00001 jwarrilow - 04 : 26am Jan 25 , 1999 EST ( of 49339 ) > 00002 ikhays } 00003 *Don ' t indulge him . He festers and oozes-- the only way to contract the illness is to come in contact with it . This disease is contained with pith and pity . So , hey , ikhays , stop by , have something to drink-He ' ll rant for awhile in dissonant tones and eventually disperse into the ether . JW 049331 00001 d-fendr - 04 : 30am Jan 25 , 1999 EST ( of 49339 ) > 00002 baba , I understand your point . } 00003 *High crimes and misdemeanors is what the senate says they are . but they already said - many of the same ones - that these charges are high crimes and misdemeanors that warrant removal . I know your point , that this particular set of perjury and obstruction of justice is not a high crime . But that ' s a really tough argument to make , it would have to be a teeeny tiny obstruction of justice , and for a really overriding moral cause . I don ' t think you have that here . I think the evidence that the senators don ' t think so either is all the huff and puff to distract and turn away from the evidence , and rush it all through . I think it ' s obvious , to me anyway , that the argument under the law , the evidence and the constitution is causing them quite a problem . But yes , they can do whatever they want with it , and say whatever they want . I ' m arguing that it ' s not quite that easy for them to do and explain it later . And I think the dems actions illustrate that point . 049332 00001 jcondo1 - 04 : 30am Jan 25 , 1999 EST ( of 49339 ) } 00002 *Henry Hyde is ready to walk into the political " Jaws of Death , " over this ? That says Kamikaze zealot to me . I ' ve got the salt . We woludn ' t want the jaws of death to have to take that tasteless mess without it . 049333 00001 d-fendr - 04 : 32am Jan 25 , 1999 EST ( of 49339 ) } 00002 *I really have to go to bed . I greatly appreciate the tone and quality of the discussion here tonight . Thank you very much . It will be an interesting week . Hope to see y ' all around . Peace . 049334 00001 jwarrilow - 04 : 37am Jan 25 , 1999 EST ( of 49339 ) > chinagirlz1 - 05 : 26am Jan 25 , 1999 EST ( of 51143 ) > 00002 d-fendr } Supkis } 00003 *Can ' t stay long-- but I think the HJC Republicans have already missed the censure boat . Whether or not the full Senate would like to offer censure as an alternative ( it may be the face-saving olive branch Senate Dems offer the infamous 13 ) -- at this point it is a last resort from the right . The bungling of this case by the HJC and the 13 must be considered as well . In light of that-- I contend they don ' t deserve a soft landing . Also-- I ' m not convinced of perjury . Lying under oath , perhaps-- but not perjury ( the materialism of perjury being debatable ) . Obstruction ? Wow . . . hard to say . But were it as it is described by the 13-- Then they should be able to convict on the basis of the record as it sits-- and they cannot . So , IMHO , acquittal is a fair result . The Right only got 8 ounces of flesh as opposed to a pound-but there are dozens of bite marks in the Clinton presidency as a result . G ' night JW *I think the problem is that they ' ve all been shopping together at the Washington D . C . Goodwill . And they ask each other for the other ' s opinion on how they look . And you know what a Republican ' s opinion is worth these days ! Ha ! 049335 00001 acald1b - 04 : 40am Jan 25 , 1999 EST ( of 49339 ) } jammerbirdi - 05 : 28am Jan 25 , 1999 EST ( of 51143 ) > 00002 *the republicans have been attacking my President since before he won the first election . remember back when The Presidentwas running for re-election ? The gop didn ' tbelieve Mr . Clinton would be re-elected , sothey passed the line item veto , believing thatthey would win the presidency back . Well , whenmy President got re-elected , te gop then cried that the line item veto was unconstitutional ! what a crock ! they were sore that Mr . Clintongot re-elected . SO now they say he perjuredhimself to the grand jury . AND they WILL NOT SAY WHAT EXACTLY HE SAID TO PERJURE HIMSELF ! BILL CLINTON IS THE BEST PRESIDENT SINCE JFK ! WHAT A RAILROAD JOB THIS IMPEACHMENT TRIAL IS ! AS FAR AS I AM CONCERNED , ALL YOU REPUBLICANS ARE NOTHING BUT STINKING DRUNKS ! supkis - 05 : 07am Jan 25 , 1999 EST ( #49339 of 49339 ) } 00003 * It ' s the fashion of least intimidation . No gray suits . But I wonder how the Beverly Hills brat felt with all those pink and pudgy republicans coming at her in their K-mart duds . That would scare the living hell out of me . 049336 00001 baba108 - 04 : 44am Jan 25 , 1999 EST ( of 49339 ) > chinagirlz1 - 05 : 31am Jan 25 , 1999 EST ( of 51143 ) } 00002 d-fendr 1 / 25 / 99 4 : 30am } *Who had on the green sweater ? It looked really bad ! ! ! ! 00003 * " I know your point , that this particular set of perjury and obstruction of justice is not a high crime . But that ' s a really tough argument to make , it would have to be a teeeny tiny obstruction of justice , and for a really overriding moral cause . } 00004 *OK ! Now I think we ' ve connected . You think it would be a " tough argument to make " and I think its not only defensible , but in accord with what a large majority of Americans already believe . That may bother Henry Hyde and his ilk , that America ' s morals are going to hell in a hand basket , but lets please not lay responsibity for that on any one person ' s shoulders . 049337 00001 jwarrilow - 04 : 45am Jan 25 , 1999 EST ( of 49339 ) > jammerbirdi - 05 : 33am Jan 25 , 1999 EST ( of 51143 ) > 00002 acald1b } chinagirlz1 - 05 : 31am Jan 25 , 1999 EST ( #49342 of 49342 ) } 00003 *Now , now ! At least be accurate when flinging casual insults around ! Repeat after me-- They are not stinking drunks . They ARE philandering , hypocritical , stinking drunks . There , doesn ' t that feel better ? JW *I think that was Asa Huckleberry . 049338 00001 baba108 - 04 : 53am Jan 25 , 1999 EST ( of 49339 ) > chinagirlz1 - 05 : 34am Jan 25 , 1999 EST ( of 51143 ) } 00002 acald1b 1 / 25 / 99 4 : 40am } *Maybe she didn ' t tell them anything , but she offered them fashion advice -- and that was why she said she said nothing , but they thought the meeting was informative . . . 00003 *Well ! It certainly is a relief to get back to basics ! Thanks and good night . 049339 00001 supkis - 05 : 07am Jan 25 , 1999 EST ( of 49339 ) Goodmorning , AMERICA ! Lets get down to basics : did you see the ridiculous clothes the Republicans wore when they interviewed Monica ? No wonder she was laughing her head off as she left ! Starr was dress tastlessly in a checkered shirt from Walmart ' s that made him look like the character from " Home Improvement " . . . he looked like he was properly dressed to go get the trash or to muck the garden . Two of the other GOPers dressed like they were going to play golf for crying out loud ! This is a serious problem but Clinton has declared Washington DC a satorial disaster area and the government will offer low interest loans to the GOP so they can buy clothes and Starr will get clothing from the Red Cross . +++ supkis - 05 : 36am Jan 25 , 1999 EST ( of 51143 ) } 00002 *First it was that incredible ugly tie Hyde wore Saturday then the melt down came on Sunday . Remember how Starr claimed Clinton ' t choice of a tie was a secret message ? The message the GOP is sending is " we are retiring and playing golf and puttering around the house " . 049340 00001 chinagirlz1 - 05 : 40am Jan 25 , 1999 EST ( of 51143 ) } 00002 *I thought the secret message was " We ' ll support the poor by shopping at Goodwill , but no more welfare ! " 049341 00001 tiger410 - 05 : 41am Jan 25 , 1999 EST ( of 51143 ) } 00002 *acalb ! it requires simple commonsence to judge where WJC COMMITTED perjury &
the fact is he did not said anything true & what he did said was vague replies . no one can expect the president to forget that he is the president but a professional lier ( being a lawer himself ) goods in playing with words . pls
remember even if your arguement of rep being after WJC is assumed to be correct , pls note REP did not ask WJC to do what he did with MONICA / PAULA JONES & many other harrased victims of his lust . nor did anyone ask him to lie to court , grand jury & infact to the entire nation so bluntly . to correct your adjectives for WJC , he is a very good salesman ( who can sell anything , lies too ) but a very bad president . 049342 00001 supkis - 05 : 42am Jan 25 , 1999 EST ( of 51143 ) } 00002 *The GOP wants to continue this ordeal . They figure they can gross us out . Just listening to them fume about Monica is enough to turn anyone away . Did you see Paula Jones on CBS last night ? She went to Beebe , Arkansas , and said after looking over the tornado damage , that she would love to live there ! They are praying for another tornado and hope a house will drop . 049343 00001 jammerbirdi - 05 : 43am Jan 25 , 1999 EST ( of 51143 ) } 00002 *Can you imagine the conversation that must have taken place during which it was decided to dress casually today ? " Gee , Bob . How should we dress tommorow ? " " Dorky , Asa . " " That ' s nice . I like dorky Bob . " +++ 990126 051967 00001 collioure1 - 07 : 07pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52475 ) } 00002 *Truth and honesty are not the currency of the Clinton administration ( Chinese money is preferred ) I know all of you cost-consicous lefties out there were really concerned about the expense of Monica ' s Presidential suite at the Mayflower . It was offered gratis . That means FREE for those of you who missed our Latin refresher this afternoon . Pax vobiscum . 051968 00001 masonr333 - 07 : 08pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52475 ) > 00002 roger660 - 07 : 06pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( #51964 of 51964 ) } 00003 *Rog , Emotion and PArties asides Has Mr . Clinton sullied the office of the President ? Have the Republicans disgraced themselves ? The Democrats ? Shouldn ' t we all be ashamed of the debacle ? 051969 00001 desinasue - 07 : 09pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52475 ) } 00002 *The business of this country has pretty much been in limbo for the past year except for the impeachment issue . We have on this forum , after more than 50 thousand posts , sunk to the level of not much more than name calling and pointing out how ignorant the other side is . I somehow have the feeling that most of the posters are not even keeping up with the trial but rather spend their time here bickering with each other . I have seen very few posts here that deal with what occurred today in the Senate . Kinda thought I could learn something on this forum . 051970 00001 collioure1 - 07 : 09pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52475 ) } 00002 *Truth and honesty are not the currency of the Clinton administration ( Chinese money is preferred ) Teri , you ' ve been watching way too much Geraldo . 051971 00001 arkie10 - 07 : 10pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52475 ) > 00002 macer , } 00003 *unfortunately , most of your candidates are not fact witnesses , the only ones who will be called . The only one who comes close is Linda Tripp . What facts are in dispute , though , that she could clear up ? Unclear . Anyway , the President shouldn ' t waste witnesses on attacking the people who exposed him . He should call witnesses who will vindicate him . If there are any . 051972 00001 xjwhite - 07 : 10pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52475 ) } 00002 * 00003 roger660 1 / 26 / 99 7 : 06pm< / a> 00004 } 00005 *> 00006 he Republicans have ruined their own case . They have pointed out conflicting testimony at several points in the trial . A case that is based on conflicting testimony is usually settled in favor of the defendant . Isn ' t that why the president settled the Jones case ? ? 051973 00001 damon_y2k - 07 : 10pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52475 ) > 00002 desinasue : } 00003 *sorry to disappoint you . 051974 00001 shotokan5 - 07 : 10pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52475 ) } 00002 *I sure hope you aren ' t claiming to be a christian rineyd . . . 051975 00001 damon_y2k - 07 : 12pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52475 ) > 00002 desinasue : } 00003 *if you listen closely , you can hear the sounds of spinning wheels . It starts with a few keystrokes , and ends with the click of the mouse . 051976 00001 emtwo - 07 : 12pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52475 ) } 00002 * ...... 00003 collioure1 1 / 26 / 99 7 : 07pm< / a> 00004 } 00005 *hmmm . . . that ' s what bothers most of us . . . that it was free . As a government employee , I cannot even accept a free meal while on government business . Wonder what the house managers and company promised for the use of a $5000 . 00 inquisition chamber ? Inquiring minds ? +++ 051977 00001 roger660 - 07 : 13pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52475 ) > 00002 masonr333 } 00003 *Yes , there is plenty of shame and disgrace for all to share . Clinton was stupid for having an affair with an intern , and the Republicans were dangerous partisans for turning it into a coup attempt . So the question is which evil is the lesser of two evils ? Right now , it ' s Clinton . There will be another election in 2000 . The public should try to elect better people . 051978 00001 hugsy - 07 : 13pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52475 ) } 00002 * 00003 desinasue 1 / 26 / 99 7 : 09pm< / a> 00004 } 00005 *I have found some posters to be good sources of info , but you are right about the name calling . It seems unavoidable , and is perhaps testement to politics being one of the two taboo subjects to discuss at dinner .
00002 hugsy - 07 : 13pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( #51978 of 51985 ) } 00003 *But don ' t be discouraged , serious posts actually do sometimes get serious responses . Well , hugs bout that bra ? ? ? 00004 And I told you that when he got back over here he was goin to have a set to with some folks . 00005 Well now , as if frickaseed Bill Clinton weren ' t enough , he ' s goin after Rosa Parks . 00006 I ' m tellin you all you better straighten up . 00007 00008 [ MORE ]< / a> 00009 < / B> 051995 00001 shotokan5 - 07 : 30pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52474 ) } 00002 *So does anyone expect more votes of any kind to measure partisanship ? Does anyone have an opinion on what the intent of the closed meetings in the Senate are for ? 051996 00001 Vegetius - 07 : 30pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52474 ) > 00002 damon_y2k - 07 : 24pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( #51991 of 51992 ) > 00003 Vegetius : } 00004 *I guess some people cannot see value / or a lack of value unless they apply a label to others . I do not consider myself a liberal or a moderate or a conservative . I am not a communist , socialist anarchist , nihlist , oligarchist , despotist . . . I do not plan on getting my but kicked any time soon . I am very happy that you give so much to charity . But do you give just to win the praises of others ? Or do you give because it is the right thing to do ? Your bucket of stones is almost empty Mr . Vegetius . Aim a little higher , you may hit me yet . I do not want to hurt you -just knock some sense into you . not less since I have never been one and you are recovering from being one ) . Starr , I am sure has ulterior motives , Rush L always seem to be selling his books and stroking his own ego . Is Chomsky a liberal ? 052009 00001 sportly - 07 : 43pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52472 ) } 00002 *I see where the Senate Republicans voted again to keep the proceedings / debates closed to public view . What are they so afraid of ? That we ' ll see this for what it really is : the highly partisan railroading of a duly elected president based on charges that should never have seen the light of day . What a game this is . No one can win . Thank you , Mr . Starr . You may now go back and crawl under whatever rock it is you came out from under . ( Don ' t get me wrong , Ken . If the charges you brought forth could be accepted or believed by anyone other than those who already hate Bill Clinton or who are out to get him , we might have a base to build on . What you have isn ' t flying for a whole bunch of reasons . Understand ? ) Trumped-up charges stemming from simple private consensual sexual behavior , if brought , should be trashed . Especially if those charges come from a biased prosecutor whose only purpose for the last five years has been to destroy a president he hates . 052010 00001 littlebigsys - 07 : 44pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52472 ) } 00002 *Actually , shaking hands with the Pope was a huge mistake on Clinton ' s part . They don ' t like Papists way down there in the southren part of the country . This was the last straw much worse than bj ' s 052011 00001 shotokan5 - 07 : 44pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52472 ) I can answer #2 easily , Clinton is a lover not a fighter . . . . 052012 00001 dfenwick1 - 07 : 45pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52472 ) > 00002 roger660 } 00003 *So far the silliest are Gramm , Lott and Strom . For balance I would add Schumer , Harkin and Wellstone who have managed to sell both their intellectual and moral integrity . 052013 00001 Vegetius - 07 : 46pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52472 ) > 00002 DAMON } 00003 * . Is Chomsky a liberal ? Yes . As is Keynes . 052014 00001 butler5555 - 07 : 47pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52472 ) } 00002 *From the very beginning , people have been predicting the end result is that Clinton doesn ' t get the boots . That has never changed -- except for a few Clinton opponents . In between then and now , there have been reports , even hopes expressed by the Clinton proponents , that since this is heading toward a dead end , why waste the time and money . Find a way out . In actuality , there have been many Republicans who have encouraged that kind of talk . But , I think momentum is too strong . This may be a wrong way for the GOP to go , but it ' s really too late . Despite all the complaints from the public , this has got to come to a trial with discovery , with depositions , with witness testimony , with cross examination , with closing arguments , with deliberations . . . . and with a verdict . The GOP has stepped over the edge and there is nothing they can grab to stop the fall . Their only hope now is to go through all of it , then try to convince the American public they were right to do it , and then focus on their political agenda in the hope they will not be remembered as the party who did what the electorate didn ' t want them to do . 052015 00001 rcuteri - 07 : 48pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52472 ) } 00002 *Strom ' s not silly . He is my Senator , and I assure you he is *not* silly . He ' s far too senile to be silly . 052016 00001 arkie10 - 07 : 50pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52472 ) > 00002 macer , } 00003 *your last sentence doesn ' t gel with the rest of your post . I DO want the facts to come out . All of them . I couldn ' t care less if Tripp et al are called . I actually think they ' d help the prosecution ' s case , because their vilification has been so skillfully orchestrated by the White House that if they could testify , that WH spin would be exposed for the fabrication it is . I just don ' t think they WILL be called because of the rules with which the Senate has bound its own hands . Logic flaw . Just because someone is out to get Clinton doesn ' t mean he doesn ' t deserve to be got . People have come to despise him for a reason . The facts about Clinton are there , from his earliest Arkansas days . The sins of Tripp , Starr and the " right wing conspiracy " pale in comparison . You just don ' t want to know . +++ 052017 00001 Vegetius - 07 : 51pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52472 ) > 00002 butler5555 - 07 : 47pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( #52014 of 52014 ) } 00003 *Politically Republicans will flourish if Flynton survives ( He Will ) . The backlash against Klintoon once he survives will be a raising tide of contempt and embarrassment . 052018 00001 damon_y2k - 07 : 54pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52472 ) > 00002 Mr . Vegetius : } 00003 *I am reading a book by Alfred E ECkes " Opening America ' s MArkets " . I am attracted to the pre-New Deal policies of the GOP ( protected home markets , less bureaucracy ) Does this mean I am conservative . I am also attracted to Chomsky ' s views on global capitalism and the free market . Does this mean I am liberal ? Am I politcaly schitso ? I come to my own conclussions . Labels ? I don ' t need no stinking label ! 052019 00001 tna1pada3 - 07 : 57pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52472 ) } 00002 * " It ain ' t over til it ' s over " ' get-Clinton ' mobsters have the onus ; their anus is already established . 052020 00001 teririley - 07 : 58pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52472 ) } 00002 *Our government is a progressive instrument for the common good . Like the plumbers of the Nixon era , Joe McCarthy ' s regime ( last time Republicans had control of Congress , BTW ) , and other radical right wing movements before them they ' re just trying to bully us . To insult us , to push their way through , to villify any dissent . Well , at least for the public , it doesn ' t work anymore . The days of Lee Atwater having George Bush wrap himself in a flag and coin the card-carrying member of the ACLU ( or Communist party , or whatever ) insults are dead . You Republican ' s have burnt the electorate out . They know you ' re nothing but a bunch of mean-spirited , selfish , do-nothing , corporate-welfare supporting windbags and we ' re not gonna ' fall for it . I hope the Senate calls witnesses and extends this fiasco . This will just be more ammunition to use against maggots like Rod Grams that are infesting the Republican majorities stranglehold on our country . 052021 00001 arkie10 - 07 : 59pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52472 ) > 00002 Jeeze , tnalpada3 . } 00003 *Toilet talk ? Go to your room for a timeout . 052022 00001 shotokan5 - 08 : 00pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52472 ) } 00002 *I don ' t know if Einstein was liberal cause he believed in God . . . . . 052023 00001 Vegetius - 08 : 00pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52472 ) > 00002 tna1pada3 - 07 : 57pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( #52020 of 52020 ) } 00003 * " It ain ' t over til it ' s over " ' get-Clinton ' mobsters have the onus ; their anus is already established } 00004 *Poor Ada hasn ' t yet established an anus ...... That would explain why he is full of *#@$ 052024 00001 tna1pada3 - 08 : 02pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52472 ) } 00002 * " It ain ' t over til it ' s over " 00003 arkie10 1 / 26 / 99 7 : 59pm< / a> 00004 } 00005 *Sorry , I meant to talk about my Prez-e-dent . Just call me Asa . 052025 00001 arkie10 - 08 : 02pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52472 ) } 00002 *Who the heck is > 00003 Ada ? 052026 00001 Vegetius - 08 : 02pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52472 ) > 00002 shotokan5 - 08 : 00pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( #52024 of 52025 ) I don ' t know if Einstein was liberal cause he believed in God . . . . . Good point . +++ 052027 00001 garrisonmd1 - 08 : 03pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52472 ) } 00002 * " BEWARE THE TYRRANY OF IGNORANCE AND INDIFFERENCE ! " ME . Clinton is at his best ( politically ) when he is in trouble . After all this is said and done and he is left in office , which he probably will be , he will be emboldened . He always gets into trouble when he is on top . It will be interesting to see what genie comes out of the bottle next . And the beat goes on ! 052028 00001 Vegetius - 08 : 05pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52472 ) > 00002 garrisonmd1 - 08 : 03pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( §§052028 of 52028 ) } 00003 * " BEWARE THE TYRRANY OF IGNORANCE AND INDIFFERENCE ! " ME . } 00004 *Clinton is at his best ( politically ) when he is in trouble . After all this is said and done and he is left in office , which he probably will be , he will be emboldened . He always gets into trouble when he is on top . It will be interesting to see what genie comes out of the bottle next . And the beat goes on ! He will be filling his coffers and accepting all offers . 052029 00001 tna1pada3 - 08 : 07pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52472 ) } 00002 * " It ain ' t over til it ' s over " 00003 arkie10 1 / 26 / 99 8 : 02pm< / a> 00004 } 00005 *That ' s for everybody else to know and you to find out ! 052030 00001 jerryhere - 08 : 07pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52472 ) } 00002 *Bill has flaws > 00003 ho the heck is > 00004 Ada ? } 00005 *The flack in the WH basement . 052031 00001 damon_y2k - 08 : 07pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52472 ) } 00002 *I am reminded of the story from the ancient book of Hebrew lore , about a king by the name of David . David had an affair with a woman then killed her husband to conceal the relationship . Much can be gleaned from this . Sex , cover-up , murder . The God of Isreal did not throw David from his office . Instead , if I recall correctly , the people of Israel were punished for the sins of their king . Is this what is happening today ? Is the GOP punishing the American voter for electing such a leader ? Or is our king punishing his own beloved electorate ? 052032 00001 arkie10 - 08 : 08pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52472 ) > 00002 Thanks , tnalpada , } 00003 *that was helpful . 052033 00001 svcarlson - 08 : 09pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52472 ) } 00002 *The Republican Senate has at this moment gone too far . It is now time to campaign for the year 2000 elections . Remove every Republican Senator that voted to establish a secret Senate . It ' s just another way they ' re acting like the Republican party that attacked Andrew Johnson . They will not weaken the Presidency because Bill Clinton is not Andrew Johnson and this is not 19th Century America , rather soon-to-be 21st Century America . We will weaken the Republican Senate , and therefore the Senate itself until decent Senators are elected . We will rally behind the President and sweep out the House in 2000 . Senators who have gone too far will be systematically targeted for defeat in 2000 , 2004 and 2006 . No amount of money from tobacco or anybody else will change this , so save your money that you intend to donate to the pathetic Republican party . Back to the post-Nixon days , and no Iran to help you this time . 052034 00001 Vegetius - 08 : 09pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52472 ) > 00002 damon_y2k - 08 : 07pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( #52031 of 52031 ) } 00003 *OH Brother 052035 00001 damon_y2k - 08 : 10pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52472 ) } 00002 *I am reminded of the story from the ancient book of Hebrew lore , about a king by the name of David . David had an affair with a woman then killed her husband to conceal the relationship . Much can be gleaned from this . Sex , cover-up , murder . The God of Isreal did not throw David from his office . Instead , if I recall correctly , the people of Israel were punished for the sins of their king . Is this what is happening today ? Is the GOP punishing the American voter for electing such a leader ? Or is our king punishing his own beloved electorate ? 052036 00001 alanlawr - 08 : 10pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52472 ) > 00002 Crimson 14 : } 00003 *Just saw your 50251 . We beg to differ . I find impeachment a very serious process with immense constitutional implications . It should not be used for petty things like sexual liaisons . Let me ask you a question . Do you think Kennneth Starr pursued his quest in the spirit of blind justice ? If you doubt it , even a little bit , don ' t you think this whole event reeks of the Star Chamber of Henry VIII ? +++ 052037 00001 damon_y2k - 08 : 10pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52472 ) oops , sorry for the double post 052038 00001 sportly - 08 : 11pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52472 ) Well , at least our guy doesn ' t need Viagra . 052039 00001 Vegetius - 08 : 11pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52472 ) > 00002 svcarlson - 08 : 09pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( #52033 of 52034 ) } 00003 *Established ? It has been the rule since inception . THe G . O . P . came along 60 years later . 052040 00001 donkirk - 08 : 11pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52472 ) } 00002 * " The President did not commit perjury . The President did not obstruct justice . He must not be removed from office . " It seems to me that every American should be alarmed at multiple violations of the Constitution and severe weakening of its inherent principle of separation of powers in the current impeachment farce . We have seen politicization of the judicial branch and investiture of nearly unlimited power in an extra-constitutional zealot who grossly abused the grand jury process and aligned himself with an extremely partisan faction in Congress , which is determined to remove from office a duly elected President . There has been abnegation of Constitutionally-mandated Congressional responsibility and delegation of " sole power " to an unelected third party . The due process rights of witnesses and targets have been trampled , the presumption of innocence has been ignored and the principle of fundamental fairness in the administration of justice has been violated repeatedly . There is grave danger to our system of justice when secret grand jury information is divulged by prosecutors , in violation of Federal law , to poison the public mind against the subject of an investigation . Use of the impeachment process as a weapon against a political opponent cripples the chief executive and upsets the delicate balance of powers among the branches of government . It is especially disturbing when votes for impeachment are extorted by party leaders who threaten to withhold campaign funds from those who waiver from the party position . These transgressions by the Independent Counsel and the Republicans in Congress greatly outweigh the misdeeds of President Clinton and pose far greater dangers to the Constitution , the rights of individuals and the vaunted " rule of law " than anything the President is alleged to have done . That all of this might be part of a wide-ranging conspiracy to subvert the democratic electoral process chills one to the bone . 052041 00001 arkie10 - 08 : 11pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52472 ) > 00002 damon , } 00003 *Gosh , so Clinton IS king . Interesting . I thought that ' s what we got rid of the British for . 052042 00001 john66c - 08 : 12pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52472 ) } 00002 *Let ' s keep the House out of the Senate ! The best way for the Senate to let Henry Hyde know that he ' s gone far enough already and for the Senate to modify the impeachment process so that everybody will know that it ' s been through the Senate is to NOT call witnesses and do what was earlier suggested , and that ' s to just take depositions from all the very people who are written down on the witness list . This way , the Senate is deciding on their own but doing with depositions from people that the House selected . Then , the best way to determine if they ' ve got a two-thirds majority to convict is to look at see how many senators threw their copies of the depositions away in the trash can because they already had their mind made up . Man ! I wish I was a janitor up on Capitol Hill ! 052043 00001 jerryhere - 08 : 12pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52472 ) } 00002 *Bill has flaws At least . 052044 00001 teririley - 08 : 13pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52472 ) } 00002 *Our government is a progressive instrument for the common good . If we are to infact remove the President of the United States from office , shouldn ' t there be something other than circumstancial evidence -- like someones interpretation of what a phone call might be about -- to prove it ? If we already have hours and hours of testimony from Jordon , Lewinsky , Currie , the executives at Revlon and the other places she applied , shouldn ' t the weight of those testimonies have greater weight over the obviously partisian interpretation of phone records which offer ONLY speculation ? The point being , we need real facts . It makes no sense to continue to talk about Willey , Jones , Filegate , Whitewater , Foster or any of the other wild accusations that have flown around these last few years . It ' s now time to prove the legal case against the President . That means that someone needs to quote here the line in Clinton ' s Grand jury testimony where he lied about the affair . I want to see someone show an answer he gave in his grand jury testimony wherein he lied about the affair . Secondly , please tell us exactly what the conversations were between the President and Vernon Jordon , that prove that Clinton told Jordon to find Lewinsky a job . Show us the testimony from Jordon that substanciates that . Or show us testimony from the Revlon executives that show that Jordon put pressure on them to hire the girl . Or show us testimony from Currie or Monica that say at any time that Clinton was supposed to get a job for her . Do those two things , and the whole trial is over . Simple as that . 052045 00001 Vegetius - 08 : 13pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52472 ) > 00002 sportly - 08 : 11pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( #52038 of 52039 ) Well , at least our guy doesn ' t need Viagra . Ted Kennedy sprinkles Viagra into every other jigger of CHIVAS . 052046 00001 tna1pada3 - 08 : 14pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52472 ) } 00002 * " It ain ' t over til it ' s over " The poor ' get-Clinton ' mobsters , veggie , jerry , all the rest , have to be apopletic knowing their hated enemy is going to skate and they ' re going to be left , like a spurned suitor , alone at the altar , while everybody else is dancing in the streets . Sad , sad . Still , one gets what one deserves ! They deserve nothing . And they ' ll get it . Enjoy . +++ 052047 00001 damon_y2k - 08 : 14pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52471 ) > 00002 Mr . Vegetius : } 00003 *I am reading a book by Alfred E ECkes " Opening America ' s MArkets " . I am attracted to the pre-New Deal policies of the GOP ( protected home markets , less bureaucracy ) Does this mean I am conservative . I am also attracted to Chomsky ' s views on global capitalism and the free market . Does this mean I am liberal ? Am I politcaly schitso ? I come to my own conclussions . Labels ? I don ' t need no stinking label ! 052048 00001 arkie10 - 08 : 15pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52471 ) } 00002 *Think what you ' re saying , pad . The Democrats deserve Clinton ? PLEASE ! 052049 00001 Vegetius - 08 : 16pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52471 ) > 00002 teririley - 08 : 13pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( #52044 of 52045 ) } 00003 *Who gave you the end of the limbo stick ? 052050 00001 fatladysinging - 08 : 16pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52471 ) } 00002 *Republican Radical Right anthem " God , let ' s impeach the Man . . . . " . Sung by lemmings Delay and Barr . Einstein also petitioned to have the bomb outlawed , was an advocate for the United Nations , and did other ' nutty ' liberal things . Together with Chomsky and Keynes we have a well theorized corn-spire-a-see for relativism , positivism , and internationalism . So Klean Kut Kristians , whatcha gonna do when we prove it to you ? Calculate another answer ? Even Kant Kant do that . Use a slide rule to figger it out ? Its a slippery slope ! ! 052051 00001 damon_y2k - 08 : 17pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52471 ) > 00002 arkie10 : } 00003 *if they really did not want to be like the British there would be no presidency , or bicamiral legislator . Istead we got a watered down kingship and more powerful house of lords . Good day to you mate . Howabout some tea ? 052052 00001 donkirk - 08 : 18pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52471 ) } 00002 * " The President did not commit perjury . The President did not obstruct justice . He must not be removed from office . " 00003 teririley 1 / 26 / 99 8 : 13pm< / a> 00004 } 00005 *Gosh , Terri . . . . it appears you want clear and convincing evidence based on stubborn FACTS . There ain ' t so such aminal in the current farce . It ' s conclusions , speculations , extrapolations , surmises and guesswork . Seems more than enough to negate a presidential election , doesn ' t it ? ? 052053 00001 john66c - 08 : 18pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52471 ) } 00002 *I think it ' s all pretty much in the hands of the Senate anyway . I don ' t think they ' ll call for witnesses , and if they do , it ' ll be for something specific and limited . At least , by doing this , they give the impression that they don ' t want to take up too much time . Then they ' ll drag this thing to God knows when ! 052054 00001 alanlawr - 08 : 19pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52471 ) > 00002 Svcarlson : } 00003 *Your post regarding secrecy in the Senate of ten minutes or so ago . It may be premature to start calling out the Crusaders . Evidently , or according to today ' s major papers , the Senate is required by the arcane and hoary laws governing impeachment to meet in camera . I have now answered my own post on this of yesterday . 052055 00001 padu329 - 08 : 19pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52471 ) > 00002 svcarlson--} 00003 *Worst of all , the present ruckus over the issue of calling witnesses is rubbish----nobody , not even the most rabid of the House managers , expects any new or illuminating testimony to come forth . We are simply watching the GOP engage in damage control---the Republican Senators don ' t want to dump the case too hastily , for fear of offending the House Republicans , particularly Henry the Hypocrite and his 12 accomplices . So in order to save face , they hope to bring a few witnesses to create the illusion that the Senate did it ' s job thoroughly . It could backfire-----the Counsels for WJC are surely going to fight over every last millimeter of legal turf , and we might end up with a dramatically extended proceeding ...... 052056 00001 macer235 - 08 : 21pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52471 ) > 00002 arkie : } 00003 * " Just because someone is out to get Clinton doesn ' t mean he doesn ' t deserve to be got . " I agree providing : a . the means are legitimate . Entrapment , illegal search and seizure , beating confessions out of people are not legitimate . In this case , these are several instances of " entrapment " in Linda ' s case , including some that were mentioned during the trial . ( Also consider how Tripp refused immunity deals until Starr threatened to indict and jail her mother ; how he indicted Judith Steele and threatened to take away her child unless she committed perjury by changing testimony that supported Clinton in the Wylie case ) . b . as for whether Clinton " deserves " to be got , deserves on what basis ? For following policies unpopular with the religious right ? That has even been suggested by anti-Clinton posts as a valid reason for impeaching the " Antichrist " as they love to call him . It clearly was the motive in the Paula Jones conspiracy . " What is the case about ? " is a legitimate question that has been raised by BOTH sides during the trial . Is it about sex ? Is it about perjury and obstruction of justice ? I say it is about differences over policy and the witnesses cited can provide evidence to prove it . It is a motive that had also been posited by the White House a few months ago . The question goes to motive . Motives of those provided the evidence are as relevant as motives of the accused . Courts allow such questions . +++ 052057 00001 Vegetius - 08 : 21pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52470 ) > 00002 tna1pada3 - 08 : 14pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( #52046 of 52051 ) } 00003 * " It ain ' t over til it ' s over " The poor ' get-Clinton ' mobsters , veggie , jerry , all the rest , have to be apopletic knowing their hated enemy is going to skate and they ' re going to be left , like a spurned suitor , alone at the altar , while everybody else is dancing in the streets . I desperately hope that Flynton survives this vote . I do want witness and each senator to vote for the record . My dream is for him to be one vote shy of expulsion . AH yes , that would be beautiful . 052058 00001 flashmonster - 08 : 22pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52470 ) } 00002 *My son is twelve years old . He weighs in that the President should not be removed from office . Now let ' s get it together ! ! ! ! 052059 00001 donkirk - 08 : 23pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52470 ) } 00002 * " The President did not commit perjury . The President did not obstruct justice . He must not be removed from office . " RE : 00003 padu329 1 / 26 / 99 8 : 19pm< / a> 00004 } 00005 *Padu -The insinuation today by David Kendall that the President ' s lawyers might summon Paula Jones ' lawyers could REALLY open this thing up , especially in light of the story in both the NY TIMES and the Washington POST about Porter , Marcus and Rosenweizg and their apparent collusion against the President . ( Porter was a member of Starr ' s law firm , Marcus was ( according to Lucianne Goldberg ) a " cut-out " and Rosenweizg was / is a member of Starr ' s IC staff . A little sunshine on that cabal would certainly be interesting . 052060 00001 desinasue - 08 : 24pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52470 ) } 00002 *I am not the most politically savvy person in this world but I ' m trying to learn . I have a question that maybe someone out there smarter than me could answer . It concerns witnesses . I read somewhere that prior to the last election Mr . Gingrich predicted that the Republicans would gain 20 or more seats in the House and possibly a few seats in the Senate . If Mr Gingrich ' s predictions had materialized the House Judicary Committee would have been in no hurry to finish the Impeachment Inquiry before the 106th Congress was seated and would have probably called wittnesses . Because the Republicans lost 5 seats in the House and gained none in the Senate it became urgent for the Judicary Committee to finish the Impeachment process before the 106th Congress was seated for the fear of not having the necessary votes in the House . In other words did the election results have any influence on The House Judicary Committee as to whether or not to call wittnesses ? ? ? 052061 00001 donkirk - 08 : 25pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52470 ) } 00002 * " The President did not commit perjury . The President did not obstruct justice . He must not be removed from office . " 00003 flashmonster 1 / 26 / 99 8 : 22pm< / a> 00004 } 00005 *Flashmonster == Smart young man . Takes after his dad , does he ? ? tna1pada3 - 08 : 25pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( §§052062 of 52470 ) " It ain ' t over til it ' s over " The buck stops at the president ' s desk . Fair or not , deserved or not , the president gets credit for almost everything that happens during his administration . Like Reagan and the fall of the Soviet Union . Unfair ? You betcha ! Look at the economy ! President Clinton gets the credit ! You don ' t like it ? Doesn ' t matter ! He gets it anyway ! Tough , ain ' t it ? BWAhahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahhahahahahahaha hahahahhahahahahahah ahahahahahahh ahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahah ahhahahahahahahahahaha hahhahahahahahahahuthi9 nkIcare ? 052063 00001 damon_y2k - 08 : 25pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52470 ) } 00002 *Is this a moral crusade ? George Kennan warned about turning small issues into all out moral crusades . The wake of such an endeavor would be catastrophic . Is the United States prepared for such a prolong " cold civil-war " ? Instead of blue vs grey , myopic elephants vs a bunch of jackasses ? 052064 00001 krasyesno - 08 : 26pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52470 ) } 00002 *When elected people representing states try to overturn a national election based on politics , maybe it is time to establish a new amendment to the constitution . Often when senority rules , so do fools . Krasnoyes 052065 00001 jerryhere - 08 : 27pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52470 ) } 00002 *Bill has flaws I don ' t think that he ' ll skate in regards to his legacy . Nor , will all the pusilanimous dweebs ? 052066 00001 teririley - 08 : 27pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52470 ) } 00002 *Our government is a progressive instrument for the common good . Don , it would be enough to negate an election if we lived in a Central-American Banana Republic with an nosey Imperial Overlord selling drugs to furnish the opposition with arms to depose an elected leader . . . . . +++ 052067 00001 Vegetius - 08 : 27pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52469 ) } 00002 *These will be the witnesses : Sid Blumenthal is the primary target in all this . This guy holds the key to obstruction . Monica acting like a Valley Girl will add little . Vernon will be interesting but , he will not be pinned down . 052068 00001 svcarlson - 08 : 27pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52469 ) } 00002 *No , the committee meetings used to be secret , and they were not democratically elected like today . Now the committee meetings are all opened . It ' s part of a movement of congressional reform that occured after the people got rid of Nixon , Lucianne Goldberg ' s buddy . Now they are reversing this practice , not just attacking Clinton . They would bring us back to the Dark Ages and Star Chamber justice if we allowed it . The Republicans cannot hide behind the early practice in 1999 . It ' s too late . The crusade WILL begin . Indeed , Jesse Jackson already started it this week . Republicans started it by registering Democrat . They believe by enforcing silence they diminish public reaction . But I think they have gone too far . A series of events has already exposed their motives and methods . Now , after this is settled , the story of the three dirty lawyers , including Starr ' s partner ( I ' m not even talking about Starr himself in the three dirty lawyers ) will be exposed for history to see and to sit as judges . They will be condemned by all right-thinking Americans . Even the religious right will judge them harshly , because they will see that they were hypocrites who used the religious-thinking people who did not suspect there would be slime like Marcus , Rosenzweig and Porter behind this . 052069 00001 tna1pada3 - 08 : 27pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52469 ) } 00002 * " It ain ' t over til it ' s over " Oh ! I forgot to say : And there ' s nothing you can do to change it ! BWahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahah ahahahahahahhahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahah ahahhahahahah ahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahha hahahahahahahahaahahah ahahahahahahahcausemos tpeopledon ' tre adtheseboards2bad ! 052070 00001 Vegetius - 08 : 27pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52469 ) > 00002 teririley - 08 : 27pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( #52066 of 52067 ) } 00003 *Our government is a progressive instrument for the common good . } 00004 *Don , it would be enough to negate an election if we lived in a Central-American Banana Republic with an nosey Imperial Overlord selling drugs to furnish the opposition with arms to depose an elected leader . . . . . How does one negate an election ? 052071 00001 shotokan5 - 08 : 28pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52469 ) > 00002 alanlawr - 08 : 19pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( #52054 of 52058 ) } 00003 *Are they required to deliberate in public . How come they are not and why did they vote for closed sessions if it is not the rule ? 052072 00001 flashmonster - 08 : 30pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52469 ) > 00002 Donkirk . } 00003 *Cospiracies everywhere hunh ? ? ? Nope my paranoid fellow American , the lad loves his country , is tremendously insightful , undeterred by parochial , and party affiliations , and seems to be able to smell a cabal like he can find an open goal . Please don ' t call Ken Starr on him ...... 052073 00001 donkirk - 08 : 30pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52469 ) } 00002 * " The President did not commit perjury . The President did not obstruct justice . He must not be removed from office . " 00003 desinasue 1 / 26 / 99 8 : 24pm< / a> 00004 } 00005 *Desinasue -The answer is " probably . " Starr sent his pornographic " referral " to the House of Representatives on Septemer 9th , two months before the November election when Representatives were distracted by the need to campaign . Nothing much happened in the Judiciary Committee until after the November election . The results were a shock to the Republicans and they wanted to get the Articles of Impeachment voted on before the opening of the new Congress in January , when their number was reduced in the House of Represenatives . 052074 00001 john66c - 08 : 31pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52469 ) } 00002 *I just don ' t want to see the Senate floor turned into like Senator Snowe said , the Jerry Springer show . And I think she gained a lot of respect amongst her colleagues when she said that ! There was another moderate Republican who said that unless they can make a real good case that witnesses would add any thing more of value to the trial that he didn ' t want to see witnesses either . So as long as we have moderate Republicans talking like that and as long as its true that there isn ' t too much more that can be added by having the Jerry Springer show on the Senate floor , then I don ' t think that they ' ll call for witnesses . I ' m sure that whatever it is , it ' ll be somewhere between having witnesses and not having witnesses . They seem to be halving everything so far , so maybe they ' ll cut this in half too ! 052075 00001 Vegetius - 08 : 31pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52469 ) > 00002 tna1pada3 - 08 : 25pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( #52062 of 52070 ) } 00003 * " It ain ' t over til it ' s over " The buck stops at the president ' s desk . Fair or not , deserved or not , the president gets credit for almost everything that happens during his administration . Like Reagan and the fall of the Soviet Union . Unfair ? You betcha ! Look at the economy ! THe Soviet Union fell during the Bush administration . Yet Reagan gets the credit ? ? 052076 00001 jerryhere - 08 : 31pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52469 ) } 00002 *Bill has flaws Vote again without R . Perot ? +++ 052077 00001 Vegetius - 08 : 32pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52468 ) > 00002 john66c - 08 : 31pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( #52074 of 52075 ) } 00003 *3 witnesses Sid Blum , Vernon Jordan , Monica Take it to the Bank . 052078 00001 jolietjake1 - 08 : 32pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52468 ) } 00002 * 00003 tna1pada3 1 / 26 / 99 8 : 14pm< / a> 00004 00005 *The poor ' get-Clinton ' mobsters , veggie , jerry , all the rest , have to be apopletic knowing their hated enemy is going to skate . . . < / i> 00006 The only thing Jerry , Veggie , myself and the rest of the " mobsters " will be sad about , dear Ada , is the loss of you , DonnyK , the Jwattster , Crazy Elizabeth , Luckly / Wanderer / Redneck and the remaining dregs of your posse as a consitantly fresh , bubbling spring of amusements . Ahhh , but all good things must come to an end at some point , I expect , and we must all return to the real world some day . 052079 00001 john66c - 08 : 33pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52468 ) } 00002 *God those conservatives must be breathing down those Senators necks ! 052080 00001 jolietjake1 - 08 : 33pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52468 ) } 00002 *Damn , THAT and the failure of the html . ! 052081 00001 john66c - 08 : 34pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52468 ) } 00002 *Just as sure as there shouldn ' t be a state-sponsored religion , then there shouldn ' t be a state-sponsored moral system either ! 052082 00001 damon_y2k - 08 : 34pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52468 ) Maybe its the Bilderburgers , or the Illuminist showing their ugly selves again . Turning our benevolent 50 states against one another , all in an attempt to establish global hegemony . " One world , one nation ? " Is this the next step ? Dividing the American people against one another ? All it took was one simple intern ? They could have done that 100 years ago . Jeez . With the US out of the way what ' s to stop the secular humanist ? Repent , the end is near ! 052083 00001 padu329 - 08 : 34pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52468 ) > 00002 donkirk--} 00003 *I ' ve always felt that the sooner this is over , the better---- But I ' m starting to wonder if a long , drawn-out bloody war wouldn ' t serve the dual purpose of giving the GOP the opportunity to dig itself an even deeper hole , and allowing for some serious digging into the whole chain of events that brought us here ( the cabal of lawyers , Starr ' s tactics , etc . . . . . ) 052084 00001 sportly - 08 : 35pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52468 ) > 00002 Vegetius - 08 : 13pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( #52045 of 52067 ) } 00003 *Ted Kennedy sprinkles Viagra into every other jigger of CHIVAS . ------Vege tius , if Ted has been spiking drinks at the WH with the big V , I say he ' s responsible for all this . I think we should drive him off a . . . No , I ' m not going to say that . What ' s Bill ' s problem ? With Monica , he must have had " A Bridge Too Far . " He ' s been pegged by the FW with something like , get this , 30 mysterious deaths . What ' s one more ? Monica is one lucky lady . jerryhere - 08 : 35pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( §§052085 of 52468 ) Bill has flaws Will bill take credit for all of the links that don ' t work tonite ? His Watch , eh ? 052086 00001 Vegetius - 08 : 36pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52468 ) > 00002 john66c - 08 : 33pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( #52079 of 52080 ) } 00003 *God and those conservatives must be breathing down those Senators necks ! And those red-deviled liberals will be over the other shoulder . is no more suited than you or I . I despise the political views of Choamsky , Asner and Jane Fonda . Of those three , only Choamsky assumes that his talents in an unrelated field qualify him to write books about foreign policy ( charging , for example , a CIA conspiracy against Allende in Chile which even a liberal committee failed to prove ) . Fortunately , those three have no great say in the Democratic Party . They may vote for Democrats , but their influence is non-existent . The same , alas , is not true in the Republican Party today , where the right-wing counterparts to Choamsky , Asner and Fonda dictate . Thus people like me leave . We ' ve heard from a few " liberal " democrats who have gone the opposite way as a result of this crisis . They are in a minority . I suspect they are the types who like Democrat programs but prefer Social Conservatism . The irony is that the Republicans today have two factions : the true conservatives ( who oppose Big Government ) and the " Big Brother Is Watching You , " Social Conservatives who have no qualms about using the power of big government to meddle in people ' s lives , especially their sex lives . PS . --It ought to be self-evident that I ' m no liberal . 052088 00001 svcarlson - 08 : 37pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52468 ) } 00002 *The Senate voted to adopt its own rules for impeachment . They did not have to make it secret . Once they voted for the rules , they needed a two-thirds vote to suspend them to open it up . This was part of the unanimous deal 100-0 . There was an effort to protect the Senate from what the House radicals were bringing in . There was the understanding that the issues could be voted on later . But the lines have hardened , as Republicans are forced to cower before the religious right . The religious people are making a very serious mistake . I was struck by a comment of a Latino women this morning on the visit of the Pope today . She said something to the effect that the Pope teaches us that we are all one human family . How different from the message of the Republican radicals and their pseudo-religious supporters ! 052089 00001 tna1pada3 - 08 : 37pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52468 ) } 00002 * " It ain ' t over til it ' s over " Legacy , shemagcy . Historians will pick over the bones of this administration and of every other administration , revising , modifying , elevating , denigrating , long after any here today have gone to feed the worms with their once proud body . Can ' t help it . C ' est la vie . C ' est la morte . 052090 00001 damon_y2k - 08 : 39pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52468 ) } 00002 *Maybe its the Bilderburgers , or the Illuminist showing their ugly selves again . Turning our benevolent 50 states against one another , all in an attempt to establish global hegemony . " One world , one nation ? " Is this the next step ? Dividing the American people against one another ? All it took was one simple intern ? They could have done that 100 years ago . Adam Wiesupt is probably proclaimiming , " Jeez , that was easy ! " With the US out of the way what ' s to stop the secular humanist ? Repent my fellow Americans , the end is near ! 052091 00001 Vegetius - 08 : 39pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52468 ) > 00002 sportly - 08 : 35pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( #52084 of 52087 ) } 00003 *What ' s Bill ' s problem ? With Monica , he must have had " A Bridge Too Far . " He ' s been pegged by the FW with something like , get this , 30 mysterious deaths . What ' s one more ? Monica is one lucky lady . According to her testimony she said to Vernon Jordan _ " I don ' t want to end up like Mary Mahoney ( Intern killed at the Georgetown Starbuck ' s- no money taken ) 052092 00001 dayrell1 - 08 : 40pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52468 ) > 00002 donkirk - 08 : 11pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( #52040 } 00003 *It never ceases to amaze me the lengths to which the arrogant apologists for the " in your face " debauchery and corruptive power politics of the Clinton regime will go in order to spread their paranoid message of " Constitutional betrayal " by the Republican Party . Civil libertarians steadfast and honest in their examination of the perjury and obstruction of justice charges leveled against WJC and his cohorts know without reservation that the Clinton " mean machine " of slander , obstruction and lies was projected solely at Paula Jones ( an ordinary American citizen ) in the ultimately futile hope of restricting her Constitutionally mandated access to due process and all in an attempt to thwart her right as a citizen to have her day in court . The Republican " political coup d ' état de conspiracy " fantasy bandied around lately in hollow minds is pure bunk . Your Chief is walking the plank and it seems you could care less what his crimes are just so long as he doesn ' t abandon your need to serve him . 052093 00001 tna1pada3 - 08 : 41pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52468 ) } 00002 * " It ain ' t over til it ' s over " > 00003 Toiletank1 : } 00004 *I keep a cake of clorine in mine for ya ! Clean up your act ( and your smell ) doncha know . Doofus ! 052094 00001 donkirk - 08 : 41pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52468 ) } 00002 * " The President did not commit perjury . The President did not obstruct justice . He must not be removed from office . " 00003 padu329 1 / 26 / 99 8 : 34pm< / a> 00004 } 00005 *Padu . . . . No chance of a congressional investigation into this mess so long as the Republicans remain in the majority of both houses . That , of course , could change in January 2001 . If the Democrats were to regain control of both houses of Congress , perhaps the Senate Judiciary Committee under Chairman Patrick Leahy and the House Judiciary Committee under Chairman John Conyers could conduct full , comprehensive investigations of this . Better yet , a Joint Senate-House Committee on Independent Counsel Activities with broad investigatory powers could expose this farce right down to its roots . I think America needs it to see just how much damage has been done to the Constitution and the Bill of Rights . +++ 052095 00001 damon_y2k - 08 : 41pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52469 ) } 00002 *Maybe its the Bilderburgers , or the Illuminist showing their ugly selves again . Turning our benevolent 50 states against one another , all in an attempt to establish global hegemony . " One world , one nation ? " Is this the next step ? Dividing the American people against one another ? All it took was one simple intern ? They could have done that 100 years ago . Adam Wiesupt is probably proclaimiming , " Jeez , that was easy ! " With the US out of the way what ' s to stop the secular humanist ? Repent my fellow Americans , the end is near ! At the very gates ! Repent ! 052096 00001 teririley - 08 : 42pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52469 ) } 00002 *Our government is a progressive instrument for the common good . Veg , I didn ' t vote for AlGore nor do I think that anybody that voted for WJC did . My vote would have changed if I had known that Gore had more then a remote chance of accending to the presidency . I voted for the leadership and vision I feel that William jefferson Clinton brings to the White House . it is a mistake to conclude that just because gore is a democrat that the parts are interchangable . Would Danny-boy be an adequate replacement for George Bush ? ? ? ? Agnew Nixon ? ? ? ? We are able to see through history what VP ' s have done when they have replaced the elected president . Ford pardoned Nixon , Johnson gave us the Gulf of Tonkin , Truman dropped the Bomb , Coolidge was not nearly as corrupt as Harding but he did set the stage by his hands off policy for the Great depression , Arthur . . . . graff and corruption , Andrew Johnson was impeached , Tyler set the stage for the Civil War . . . . . the only VP that exceeded his head was Teddy Roosevelt ( my favourite republican leader ever , even more so than Abe ) so you see history shows us that removal and conviction does the country greater harm than good , why rock the boat . 052097 00001 tna1pada3 - 08 : 42pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52469 ) } 00002 * " It ain ' t over til it ' s over " > 00003 Andmyotherbrotherdarrlyl : } 00004 *Overheated rhetoric for sale ! Get your overheated rhetoric here ! 052098 00001 Vegetius - 08 : 43pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52469 ) } 00002 *ANN COULTER : The High Crime of Being Republican Human Events 1-22-99 Ann Coulter What really drives Democrats crazy about President Clinton ' s impeachment is that they can ' t just come out and say that the only thing they think is really impeachable is being a Republican . 052099 00001 donkirk - 08 : 45pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52469 ) } 00002 * " The President did not commit perjury . The President did not obstruct justice . He must not be removed from office . " 00003 dayrell1 1 / 26 / 99 8 : 40pm< / a> 00004 Dayrell . . . } 00005 *Wipe the foam from the corner of your mouth , drag the drool off your chin and take your medication . You ' re babbling again . The orderly will be there in a minute or two . Just stay there . 052100 00001 fatladysinging - 08 : 45pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52469 ) } 00002 *Republican Radical Right anthem " God , let ' s impeach the Man . . . . " . Sung by lemmings Delay and Barr . Manager : " Mista Blum-in-thal , Is it trew that the Pres-ee-dent tole you he didn ' t have any relationship of a sexual na-tur with Ms . Lew-in-skia ? " " Whey do you think he tole you that ? " Blum : " Yes , he told me he had no relationship with Ms Lewinski of a sexual nature . He told me that because I am closely associated with Mrs . Clinton . He didn ' t want her to find out ! " " I don ' t think he cared whether I testified to that or not . Whatever I said about what he said is hearsay . " I told the GJ that I had no independent knowledge of a relationship between Mr . Clinton and Ms . Lewinski . " Senators ( laughing ) : " We hope Mr . Manager , you have better evidence of obstruction than this ! " 052101 00001 svcarlson - 08 : 46pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52469 ) } 00002 *I know Noam Chomsky , having met him several times at the university . I would consider him a friend , although not a close personal friend . There is nothing at all despicable about his political views . He is in fact one of the leading experts in the world about politics . Politics is language , symbolism , imagery , debate and discussion . Chomsky is immensely relevant because he has scientifically proven that all human beings ( not whites , Asians or anybody else in greater or lesser degree ) have a basic human legacy of a linguistic faculty , which allows us all to learn one or more languages without any instruction at all , based on our genetic design . The meaning is that freedom is a basic human legacy , not even anything given to us through millenia of struggle . This basic human legacy is what drives us to attain freedom , not the result of it . Politically , this means the world is upside down . The elites are using a faculty that we all possess , to lead . According to natural scientific law , they must base their leadership on this state of affairs . Much of what Chomsky writes and talks about on politics is the ways in which political manipulation by current elites is contrary to the human tendency toward freedom and reason . The current situation in Washington would be an excellent example of this . 052102 00001 padu329 - 08 : 46pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52469 ) > 00002 donkirk---} 00003 *I was thinking of a Justice Dep ' t . inquiry-----that wouldn ' t require approval from the GOP . This would be a great chance for J . Reno to redeem herself for letting Starr get so out of control in the first place . . . . 052103 00001 amiante - 08 : 47pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52469 ) } 00002 * " It seems to me that every American should be alarmed at multiple violations of the Constitution and severe weakening of its inherent principle of separation of powers in the current impeachment farce . " The Republicans are actively working to subvert the principles of the Constitution because a democracy does not favor those who are a minority . They will stop at nothing , not even , I am convinced , at violence . It is obvious that they do not have the votes to convict and the only thing they can do is trash the place before they go . Every day they push the envelope farther . Destroying President Clinton is certainly not the end of their agenda . He is only the beginning . The sloppiness and incompetence with which they presented their pitiful case shows their disregard for Constitutional processes . They operate by force and by iolence , not by democratic means . Many here have very disingenuously admitted that they are not the least interested in the validity of the charges , which they admit are false and pretextuous . These are people who will stop at nothing to achieve their agenda . +++ 052104 00001 donkirk - 08 : 48pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52468 ) } 00002 * " The President did not commit perjury . The President did not obstruct justice . He must not be removed from office . " 00003 Vegetius 1 / 26 / 99 8 : 43pm< / a> 00004 } 00005 *Vegetius . . . Ann Coulter , the ditzy flaming right-wing nutcase ? Member of the Independent Women ' s Forum which commissioned Kenneth Starr to write the amicus brief for Paula Jones ? Ann Coulter who came from nowhere to be a talking head on Fox News and will go right back to nowhere any time now ? THAT Ann Coulter ? Gimme a break . 052105 00001 macer235 - 08 : 48pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52468 ) } 00002 *SHOULD THE PRESIDENT BE A MORAL EXEMPLAR ? Someone posed that question on MSNBC in noting the disparity between polls giving the president a 16 percent rating in that regard while the same pollsters revealed the public giving him 60%+ for presidential performance . Bernie Frank suggested--now don ' t get ad hominem folks ! --that perhaps it ' s a sign of public maturity rather than public confusion . Jimmy Carter was one of the most truely " moral " presidents in terms being applied negatively to Clinton , yet he was also one of the worst in terms of performance--a reputation that won ' t benefit from historical revisionism . Yet one can cite a half-dozen good to outstanding presidents who sexual behavior was equal to Clinton ' s if not worse . The two things don ' t connect . Frank suggested that perhaps we shouldn ' t expect our president ' s to be morale exemplars ( Now watch the rebuttal via fallacy of degree in which we will hear of murderers , thugs , etc ) . The old approach will remain especially popular out in the sticks where they believe in Scientific Creationism , devils residing inside your computer , absolute morality ( which NOBODY truely practices thanks to common sense ) and so on . 052106 00001 Vegetius - 08 : 49pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52468 ) > 00002 teririley - 08 : 42pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( #52096 of 52098 ) } 00003 *Our government is a progressive instrument for the common good I never said I wanted him removed for political reasons . I would like him to stay in office for strictly political reasons but , I do find him repulsive as a moral leader . This country is on auto-pilot with big business the closest thing to having a grasp on the compass . We were blessed that Klintoon was president during a time of relative peace . 052107 00001 ivkog - 08 : 49pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52468 ) } 00002 *I analyzed Messages of Clinton supporters . All are for abolishing the justice . Even no one has told this directly . Maybe they are right ? No courts , no prosecutors , all prisoners are realized . Stop wasting money for these unnecessary things ! Why majority is bored ? Because the main question for the public opinion searching is like : " Is relation with Monica a family deal ? " No one should be removed from office for driving above 80 miles , even if one told that it was only 40 . But if one told under oath that it was 40 he should be removed from office to the prison . If it will necessary to spend fifty million and five years to prove this , the time and the money were not thrown out . It would be good to make that one to return them ! 052108 00001 rdemarc1 - 08 : 49pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52468 ) } 00002 *This entire matter defies common sense . I feel like I am living in BIZZARO WORLD . The House made a mountain out of a mole hill , and the Senate is trying to dig itself from under . In the meantime the President still can ' t figure out what he did wrong . However , it seems most of the people feel it was a venial sin and not a mortal sin that the fellow committed . Everyone knows that a lie is a lie , that sex is sex , that political knives are razor sharp . In the meantime , the USA has been made a laughing-stock . . . and the repercussions--no matter how the mess in Washington turns out . . . will be long term . These adverse reactions will come from just about every other country in the world . . . and they will be blackmailing us in every conceivable manner . . . money , arms , alliances , civil unrest infiltration , and Lord only knows what else . America ' s Achilles Heel seems to be the lingering Puritanism manifested by the hypocritial religious right ; a free-sex social order that maintains a prim and proper exterior ; and all sorts of religious nuts who do not have the word " forgiveness " in their vocabularies if it includes any foreplay or sex . The President is completely guilty of poor judgement in his personal affairs . That is not an impeachable offense unless it can be proven that the Nation was put at risk by his nonsense . It may well have been ; but that is not the subject of the investigation . His stupidity in the handling of this case may be a cause to doubt his ability to lead . One would have thought that the Senate would have called a psychiatrist as a witness , or , at least the President ' s medical team , if he has such a thing . God willing , we will all wake up one morning next week and BIZARRO WORLD will have imploded . Then all the pundits trying to make careers out of this matter at the expense of the nation will have to find a new way to make a living . It is good to be able to laugh at one ' s foibles -- but it should not be at the expense of a Nation . 052109 00001 amiante - 08 : 50pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52468 ) } 00002 *I admire Clinton for being serious in giving minorities and women a chance . He has surrounded himself by blacks and women whom he has placed in positions of power . It ' s kind of a " put your money where your mouth is " thing . But Janet Reno is undoubtedly the worst of his appointments . She is without any substance , without courage , without the character to make a decent attorney general . And her lack of backbone has contributed much to our present crisis . 052110 00001 jolietjake1 - 08 : 50pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52468 ) } 00002 * 00003 macer235 1 / 26 / 99 8 : 36pm< / a> 00004 } 00005 * Mr Macer : Please . . . spare us your " look homeward angel " lurch-to-the-left sob story . At least the bulk of the wacky libs we joust with on these forums are openly Marxist in their orientation , and will even go as far as blithering on about it . . . But you sir , are purporting that , although you are NOT a liberal ( hmmm ) -- you are ready to join up with the Third Wave / Progressive / Socialist / Appropriately Jackass-symboled Party because you feel the GOP has been giving the Chief Jackass too much of a hard time ? ? PUUUUUUHHHH--LEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEZE ! +++ 052111 00001 damon_y2k - 08 : 50pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52466 ) } 00002 *Thank you svcarlson for your post . Well stated . I am the one who brought up Chomsky asking whether he was a liberal . I minored in anthropology so I was introduced to his work as an undergrad . I do not see eye to eye on all of his opinions , but his views on global capitalism are fascinating . 052112 00001 tna1pada3 - 08 : 51pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52466 ) } 00002 * " It ain ' t over til it ' s over " Annie " The Harridan " Coulter is a member of the " creepy little cabal " of rabid right-wing lawyers of which the NYT has finally taken notice . Her book , published by Regnery , funded by Scaife , was propelled to a best seller list by strategic purchases by her firends in the " cabal " . I asked my local bookseller , Bookends , how sales of the book were going in her store ( we ' re in republican territory ) ; her answer , " No one buys the book at retail because returns ( where the intial orders don ' t sell ) are runnin three to one ! Annie " Harridan " Coulter , b1tch of the ' get-Clinton ' mob , is a joke to the world and doesn ' t even know it . Par for the group . 052113 00001 fatladysinging - 08 : 52pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52466 ) } 00002 *Republican Radical Right anthem " God , let ' s impeach the Man . . . . " . Sung by lemmings Delay and Barr . > 00003 Vegie : } 00004 *You gotta have better souces than Ann Coulter , emaciated hair and face , et . al . This pollster , becomes Repelican talking pointy head , becomes socalled constitutional impeachment authority , becomes undone . How about Repelicans following lead of Clinton haters bring government to a halt so panties can be sniffed by everyone . Not Impeachable ? 052114 00001 jerryhere - 08 : 52pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52466 ) } 00002 *Bill has flaws > 00003 he Republicans are actively working to subvert the principles of the Constitution because a democracy does not favor those who are a minority . Where ' d you get your copy ? Flynt bookstore ? Destroying President Clinton . . . A joke . 052115 00001 hugsy - 08 : 52pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52466 ) } 00002 *HEY , they call it exorcism , but even the Pope and Cardinals are for conviction and removal . John Paul has denounced the devil in a series of recent homilies as a ``cosmic liar and murderer . ' ' In today ' s world , the cardinal said , the devil ' s force comes through widespread acceptance of ``lies and deceit . . . the idolatry of money . . . the idolatry of sex . ' ' ( LOL ) 052116 00001 jerryhere - 08 : 53pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52466 ) } 00002 *Bill has flaws Frantic libs , eh ? 052117 00001 sportly - 08 : 53pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52466 ) } 00002 *DeWayne Wickham in USA Today ( 1 / 26 / 99 ) : . . . Four years ago , Republicans appeared to be on their way to becoming the dominant force in U . S . politics . With Clinton ' s approval rating in free fall and congressional Democrats in disarray , the GOP used its " Contract With America " pledge of lower taxes , higher defense spending and less government to win majorities in the House and Senate . Just 100 days after the Republican ' s current reign began , Congress ' approval rating rose to 42% , double that which Democrats registered on the eve of the 1994 elections . But on their way to turning that success into a political dynasty , congressional Republicans lost their way . They got sidetracked by the rabid conservatives who infest their party ' s ranks . They were derailed by the evangelicals of the religious right who hope to use the GOP to turn our democracy into a theocracy . Instead of forging a legislative agenda that moved it beyond the gimmicky " Contract With America " and closer to the political middle , the GOP became an instrument of the right wing , which has spent the past five years trying to bring the Clinton presidency to an early end . . . . Check it out at : http : / / www . usatoday . com / news / comment / ncwick . htm 052118 00001 doolin1 - 08 : 53pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52466 ) } 00002 *Does anyone think for one minute that President Clinton would not be so secure if American greed was not running near record levels ? Give him a recession and watch the rats leave his political ship . Greed is the key . Americans will tolerate a lot for more money . 052119 00001 dfenwick1 - 08 : 54pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52466 ) > 00002 teririley } 00003 *While I disagree with you on whether this President should be impeached I concur with you that we are talking bout overturning an election . While I once supported Clinton , I would never have voted for Gore . Likewise there are hosts of Vice Presidents ( Quale and Agnew in particular ) who would not be in the same league as the Presidents who chose them ( generally for one cynical reason or another ) as their running mates . Still , Clinton ought to go and Gore is just part of the price we have to pay . 052120 00001 Vegetius - 08 : 55pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52466 ) > 00002 DON KIRK } 00003 *1-22-99 Ann Coulter What really drives Democrats crazy about President Clinton ' s impeachment is that they can ' t just come out and say that the only thing they think is really impeachable is being a Republican . They hint at it , but can ' t admit it outright . Here are the hints : " Finally , consider President Nixon , whose extremely ' high crimes ' and gross abuses of official power posed a threat 40 our basic constitutional system . Although Nixon was elected by the people , his own unprecedented use of political espionage and sabotage tainted his mandate . . . " Akil Amar New Republic , Jan . 18 , 1999 " If we weaken the independence of the presidency , who knows ? The next President may want to change the rules on Cuba . And they say , ' We ' ll indict you for that or impeach you for that , ' ' and he has been intimidated . " The Rev . Robert Drinan Former Democratic House member from Massachusetts " To set the record straight , isn ' t it fair to say that President Clinton ' s conduct doesn ' t even hold a candle to President Nixon and what he did ? " Rep . Martin T . Mahone ( D . -Mass . ) The minority report of the House Judiciary Committee objected to the articles of impeachment for perjury and obstruction of justice as failing to meet the " historically rooted prerequisite for impeaching a President , " which is : conduct that " amounts to the abuse of official power . " +++ 052121 00001 Vegetius - 08 : 55pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52466 ) } 00002 *President Nixon faced impeachment charges , and deservedly , because he lied to the public . Don ' t believe the nonsense you hear about Nixon ' s grand treacheries and " official abuse " of the CIA , FBI and the IRS . A President who can get the IRS to audit his enemies doesn ' t get audited himself , as President Nixon did . Nixon faced impeachment charges because he lied . And we know that because that ' s what his accusers said at the time . The first item in the first article of impeachment against Nixon accused him simply of " making or causing to be made false or misleading public statements for the purpose of deceiving the people of the United States " Elliot Richardson , the attorney general Nixon fired in the " Saturday Night Massacre ; ' ' said politicians would now know that " honesty is the best politics . " Nixon counselor Pat Buchanan said Nixon had to go because " the President can ' t lead a country he has deliberately misled for a year and the material world , refer to Nixon ' s use of " the Plumbers " to plug national security leaks . That , along with his defense of Whittaker Chambers is what drove , and still drives , Nixon ' s antagonists to distraction . But that ' s not why he almost got himself impeached , and resigned , instead . His anticommunism is , however , what got him elected 052122 00001 tna1pada3 - 08 : 56pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52466 ) } 00002 * " It ain ' t over til it ' s over " Stuffed merrlitons are ready ! Eat your hearts out while I devour my meal . Ciao ! 052123 00001 amiante - 08 : 56pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52466 ) > 00002 rdemarc : } 00003 *don ' t count on waking up next week and finding this over . There is a virulent , and violent right wing which controls the Republican party and who will stop at nothing to achieve their ends . They are profoundly anti-democratic , and therefore anti-tolerant , and they have been favored by the well-being that lulled democrats and independents into complacency . We ' ve always heard how lucky we are to be living in a democracy . The Republican party teaches us exactly what can happen when the majority of the country neglects to vote and tunes out on the political discourse . I am one of those people who was too busy with my own life and my own ambitions to get interested in politics while a fanatical minority set about trying to destroy the foundations of democracy . Not anymore . 052124 00001 hbmiller1 - 08 : 56pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52466 ) } 00002 * " I think America needs it [a full-scale investigation of Starr ' s conduct] to see just how much damage has been done to the Constitution and the Bill of Rights . " Amen , brother . And there ' d be plenty of support for it . " It ' s high time that Starr himself was seriously investigated . The ongoing judicial inquiry into leaks and other possible illegalities by his office should be extended to include the ideologically driven politics and conflicts of interest that contaminate Starr ' s enterprise . 052125 00001 Vegetius - 08 : 57pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52466 ) . } 00002 *Kennedy Wiretapped Journalists President Kennedy never faced impeachment , though he and his brother , the attorney general , directed the FBI and the CIA to install dozens of wiretaps of steel executives , lobbyists , journalists , and congressmen ( among other egregious and now well-established civil rights abuses ) . No Supreme Court justice has ever been impeached for usurping the prerogatives of the states upon their discovering novel constitutional rights located in " penumbras " and " emanations " of the Constitution unnoticed for 200 years . President Truman didn ' t face impeachment for seizing the steel mills during the ( undeclared ) Korean war . Clinton has not been impeached for his unconstitutional placement of Bill Lann Lee as head of the civil rights division at the Department of Justice , when the Senate would not confirm Lee . Clinton was not impeached for his official act of declaring 1 . 7 million acres of undistinguished land mass as a " national monument " in Utah , usurping the Congress ' s authority to declare national wilderness areas . Indeed , the last President who was impeached for an " official act " was President Andrew Johnson , and history has not been kind to the Congress that impeached him . Perhaps it is for that reason that official acts even official acts that look a lot like abuses of power-have historically not been deemed impeachable in this country . ( Neither treason nor bribery , by the way , is an " official act . " ) Or perhaps it is because even the Framers didn ' t want to hear Harvard lawyers shrieking that every " official act " of a Republican President is a " high crime and misdemeanor . " 052126 00001 macer235 - 08 : 57pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52466 ) > 00002 svcarlson : } 00003 *Sorry , for the Democrats to start listening to Choamsky on foreign affairs will be to go back to the successes of Jimmy Carter in that area . It will be equivalent to listening to that crackpot from Berkeley , Ron Dellums . Saddam would now control the oil of Saudi Arabia and the OAR as well as Kuwait . I ' m sure he ' d use it to promote worthy and humane causes . Choamsky ' s contributions are concerned with the stucture of language . When he strays into the relation between language and politics he becomes subjective , akin to Asante ' s Afrocentric history , in which we learn about mono-racial levitating Egyptians who invented computers and flew to the moon . When the Democrats cede authority to Asner , Choamsky , Fonda , McKinnon , Dellums , etc . , I can ' t threaten to defect to the Republicans , whose total subservience to the religious right and whose almost absolute support for the current charade has turned me off forever . I guess I ' ll either have to stay home on election day or move to New Zealand . 052127 00001 arian35 - 09 : 00pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52466 ) } 00002 * " Socialism is only a transitory phase on the road to communism . " --Balint Vazsonyi 00003 johnsdad1b 1 / 26 / 99 2 : 10pm< / a> 00004 } 00005 *Appreciate the response , but permit me to clarify . I wasn ' t finding fault with " the planter ' s " language . Just silly me trying to be funny . Must agree , however , with your assessment , especially since I had 2 years of Latin--mandatory at my Catholic H . S . I was unaware of its comeback . +++ 052128 00001 teririley - 09 : 01pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52465 ) } 00002 *Our government is a progressive instrument for the common good . Veg , Nixon was elected because of George Wallace , not because he was an " anti-communist " and the reason he was forced to resign was not because he lied or was even caught but he circumvented the investigation and fired his AG who wouldn ' t do his bidding . Trust me , if Nixon wouldn ' t have organized the Saturday Night Massacre , Reno would have been gone long ago . 052129 00001 ripper66 - 09 : 01pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52465 ) } 00002 * 00003 sportly 1 / 26 / 99 8 : 53pm< / a> 00004 } 00005 * And does the article end : " . . . but even though the republican party has slipped off course and become a daily target for democrats , they have managed to keep control of both branches of Congress and garner a larger percentage of votes than democrats in the most recent election " ? 052130 00001 hugsy - 09 : 02pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52465 ) } 00002 *http : / / search . washingtonpost . com / wp-srv / WAPO / 19990126 / V000587-012699-idx . html see for yourself , The Pope gives instructions to the House managers . ( I think it ' s really funny , so bear with me . . brains that are big , not tiny , though there are people who appear to have brains but really don ' t . Brawn was useful but the brains and the ability to lie and finagle are of supremest importance to all humanity . One of the things we racked out massive brains about was how to get the best sex . This lead to the evolution of females who are always in heat . The males competed like crazy for these females . The males who didn ' t care about this have few descendants to represent the " I hate sex " genes . Today , in the modern world , we admire and follow sexy leaders . Even Reagan worked hard to appear at least reasonably sexy even if he was ancient and dottering . We instinctively shuddered around Dole because we sensed that his sex life probably stank and lo and behold , it did ! He needed medicine just to hump ! So why are we impeaching our President ? Because we are insane . 052137 00001 padu329 - 09 : 08pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52465 ) > 00002 hbmiller--- } 00003 *I suspect that at this very moment there are some nervous right-wing lawyers engaged in document-shredding and otherwise covering their tracks . . . . . they have to be anticipating that an investiagtion is forthcoming ...... I hope there ' s a little evidence of their chicanery left for the Feds to uncover . . . . +++ 052138 00001 jerryhere - 09 : 08pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52464 ) } 00002 *Bill has flaws > 00003 terri--} 00004 *Whaddabout bill ' s best friends Flynt & carVile ? 052139 00001 donkirk - 09 : 08pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52464 ) } 00002 * " The President did not commit perjury . The President did not obstruct justice . He must not be removed from office . " 00003 padu329 1 / 26 / 99 8 : 46pm< / a> 00004 } 00005 *Padu . . . I don ' t think Reno will do diddly against Starr . She has ample reason : the leaks of grand jury material ; denial of Lewinsky ' s request to contact her lawyer for several hours ; " aggressive " advocacy of impeachment that caused Sam Dash to resign ; Starr ' s involvement with the House Managers in forcing Lewinsky to come to DC for a " sitdown , " in apparent violation of Senate Resolution 16 , adopted by a vote of 100-0 ; threats of imprisonment for Lewinsky and her parents ; Starr ' s involvement with Jones ' attorneys , and on and on and on . There ' s plenty to investigate Starr for , even to fire his ass . Reno simply won ' t do it . A Congressional investigation could be conducted in addition to or in concert with a Justice Department investigation , of course . But the sad truth is that the " Office of Professional Responsibility " ( Ehtics ) at the Justice Department is very similar to the " Internal Affairs Bureau " of most police departments . The goal is to protect insiders ( like Starr and rouge cops ) and not to protect the public interest by bringing felons who thwart justice to account . 052140 00001 svcarlson - 09 : 09pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52464 ) > 00002 Damon , Macer - } 00003 *I think it is not correct to say that Chomsky is concerned with any structure of language . He is leading linguistics as a discipline in a massive research effort to prove and to document the existence of a genetic-based human language faculty ( he ' s also interested in the theory of vision , and I think would be interested in the number line reported in Science last year , a natural mathematical faculty ) . His theory of deep structure was a step along the path of leading this linguistics-wide theory building which toppled behaviorism , a reactionary and misguided theory of linguistics whose strongest psychological advocate was B . F . Skinner . A liberal ? He did his famous early research reported in Syntactic Structures for the Air Force , Navy and Army , I believe , under a DOD contract . I think , like me , he would identify himself as both a liberal and a conservative . If liberalism and conservatism are two choices we are taught by a behaviorist language learning regime , then choose we must . We ' re taught they ' re mutually exclusive , ultimately at war with each other . But if , as Chomsky suggests , language is innate , then these two words , liberalism and conservatism , must have some intrinsic meaning in human behavior reflected in all of our lives . IMO it becomes improper to force the embrace of one and the expulsion of the other . It ' s irrational . 052141 00001 Vegetius - 09 : 10pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52464 ) > 00002 teririley - 09 : 01pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( #52128 of 52135 ) } 00003 *Our government is a progressive instrument for the common good . I disagree . Nixon got great support from his anti-communist stance . He also despised by liberals for proving Hiss a communist spy . Many liberals today refuse to admit that Hiss was guilty despite the evidence found in Moscow in 1991 . 052142 00001 spinthis - 09 : 11pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52464 ) } 00002 *1997-98 Christian Coalition Voting Record of House GOP Impeachment Managers What follows is an evaluation stated as a percentage of 1997-1998 votes that the House Managers voted in line with the Christian Coalition on legislation that organization considered to be the most important Rep . Bob Barr ( R-Georgia ) Methodist , lawyer , white , male - 92% Rep . Ed Bryant ( R-Tennessee ) , Presbyterian , lawyer , white , male - 100% Rep . Steve Buyer ( R-Indiana ) , Methodist , lawyer , white , male - 100% Rep . Charles Canady ( R-Florida ) Presbyterian , lawyer , white , male - 100% OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA , AGAINST RICHARD M . NIXON , PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA , IN MAINTENANCE AND SUPPORT OF ITS IMPEACHMENT AGAINST HIM FOR HIGH CRIMES AND MISDEMEANOURS . ARTICLE 1 In his conduct of the office of President of the United States , Richard M . Nixon , in violation of his constitutional oath faithfully to execute the office of President of the United States and , to the best of his ability , preserve , protect , and defend the Constitution of the United States , and in violation of his consitutional duty to take care that the laws be faithfully executed , has prevented , obstructed , and impeded the administration of justice , in that : On June 17 , 1972 , and prior thereto , agents of the Committee for the Re-election of the President committed unlawful entry of the headquarters of the Democratic National Committee in Washington , District of Columbia , for the purpose of securing political intelligence . Subsequent thereto , Richard M . Nixon , using the powers of his high office , engaged personally and through his close subordinates and agents , in a course of conduct or plan designed to delay , impede , and obstruct the investigation of such illegal entry ; to cover up , conceal and protect those responsible ; and to conceal the existence and scope of other unlawful covert activities . The means used to implement this course of conduct or plan included one or more of the following : 1 . making false or misleading statements to lawfully authorized investigative officers and employees of the United States ; 2 . withholding relevant and material evidence or information from lawfully authorized investigative officers and employees of the United States ; 3 . approving , condoning , acquiescing in , and counselling witnesses with respect to the giving of false or misleading statements to lawfully authorized investigative officers and employees of the United States and false or misleading testimony in duly instituted judicial and congressional proceedings ; 4 . interfering or endeavouring to interfere with the conduct of investigations by the Department of Justice of the United States , the Federal Bureau of Investigation , the office of Watergate Special Prosecution Force , and Congressional Committees ; 5 . approving , condoning , and acquiescing in , the surreptitious payment of substantial sums of money for the purpose of obtaining the silence or influencing the testimony of witnesses , potential witnesses or individuals who participated in such unlawful entry and other illegal activities ; 6 . endeavouring to misuse the Central Intelligence Agency , an agency of the United States ; 7 . disseminating information received from officers of the Department of Justice of the United States to subjects of investigations conducted by lawfully authorized investigative officers and employees of the United States , for th 052152 00001 jolietjake1 - 09 : 17pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52464 ) } 00002 * 00003 supkis 1 / 26 / 99 9 : 07pm< / a> 00004 } 00005 *Speak for yourself , supkis , you crazy muthah . 00006 donkirk 1 / 26 / 99 9 : 08pm< / a> 00007 } 00008 *DonkDon ' t you think another possible explanation could be Reno ' s fear of irritating a Congress already massing for contempt charges against her for refusing to launch YET ANOTHER Special Prosecutor against ol Slippery Bill regarding his campaign finance abuses ? NAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH . . . . . 052153 00001 bjhamel - 09 : 17pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52464 ) > 00002 Spinthis . . . . . You completely misrepresented the Republican Agenda . Where is flag burning ? 052154 00001 hugsy - 09 : 17pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52464 ) } 00002 *In today ' s world , the cardinal said , the devil ' s force comes through widespread acceptance of ``lies and deceit . . . the idolatry of money . . . the idolatry of sex . ' ' Gee , I thought those were programs Clinton proposed during his State of the Union Address . +++ 052155 00001 Vegetius - 09 : 18pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52462 ) > 00002 teririley - 09 : 14pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( #52147 of 52149 ) } 00003 *Our government is a progressive instrument for the common good . Jerryherek , I have more respect for Carvelle and even Flyntt than I do Dewy , Cheatim and Howe otherwise known as Starr ( s ) and Barr ( s ) ----how fitting------with a little Hyde tarred for good measure . } 00004 *Don ' t indict yourself to prove a point . THis is an embarrassment . 052156 00001 sportly - 09 : 19pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52462 ) } 00002 *Hey , my crystal ball is working again . I see something . It says , " There will be a great many Democratic victories in the year 2000 . " " What , " I say . " How can this be ? Who ' s responsible ? " Oh , I see a face coming in now , coming in , and , uh , . . . it looks to be , why , yes , it ' s Judge Starr . Why he ' s a closet Democrat . Who would have thought ? Well , unlike the rest of you , I have a life . So , I ' m outta here . Keep your britches zipped , and always hang your holly high . 052157 00001 supkis - 09 : 19pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52462 ) } 00002 *Looks like Oog the Ugly had more descendants before he met the fatal cave bear . Some of the postings here are of his caliber . 052158 00001 padu329 - 09 : 19pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52462 ) > 00002 Donkirk--} 00003 *Perhaps we can hope that the private sector will do the job----- ( do I sound too much like a Republican ? ) ...... Maybe a Woodward / Bernstein team will emerge to take up the cause . . . . If I were an enterprising young journalist , I couldn ' t imagine a juicier prospect . . . . . Larry Flynt could finance the operation ...... 052159 00001 dayrell1 - 09 : 19pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52462 ) > 00002 donkirk - 08 : 45pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( #52099 } 00003 *Once again you and your idiotic cohort in the marshlands of Dixie stoop to the lowest level of ad hominem assault . As far as what you call my " drooling " and " foaming " is concerned . . . I ' m only watching with complete bewilderment you and the " failed epicure " stew in the hypocrisy of your hateful diatribes . Oh yes , and also watching with amazement your chief and his significant other sheepishly cringe before John Paul , while all the time in the back of his mind trying to define the meaning of . . . . uh , what was it ? SEXUAL RELATIONS ? 052160 00001 hbmiller1 - 09 : 20pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52462 ) } 00002 * " . . . when the President Counsel calls Starr , Tripp , and others in the party to establish acquiring evidence illegally and prosecutorial misconduct they will not have been the ones to start it . . . " I doubt the Republican Senate majority will allow the president ' s lawyers to call those witnesses . So the American people will see the Clinton defense denied a fair chance to put on its witnesses by another party-line vote , underlining once again the unfairness and illegality of the whole process . If the Republican majority does allow those witnesses to be called , of course , Clinton ' s lawyers will rip them to shreds in full view of a national television audience . So no matter what the Republicans do , they ' re right royally screwed . Almost makes me feel sorry for them . . . NOT ! ! 052161 00001 roger660 - 09 : 20pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52462 ) > 00002 spinthis : } 00003 * " GOP AGENDA tax breaks for the rich Impeachment " That seems to be pretty much the agenda . Except I think I would reverse them and put impeachment first , and then tax breaks for the rich . 052162 00001 teririley - 09 : 21pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52462 ) } 00002 *Our government is a progressive instrument for the common good . > 00003 veg , } 00004 *no way would a republican have ever carried the south in 68 . . . and the election in 72 was a wash , expect for us that live in Mass ( ya know hat I ' m talking about , the old VW ' s with the bumper stickers saying don ' t blame me I ' m from Mass : ) ) because McGovern was to far to the left , whatever that means : - ) 052163 00001 jerryhere - 09 : 21pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52462 ) } 00002 *Bill has flaws FLASH ! ! ! Engel ( D-NY ) just admitted that the big " he " lied under oath . ( Hannity and Colmes ) Is this to be deemed a ' crack in the wall ' ? 052164 00001 51206b - 09 : 21pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52462 ) } 00002 * ( THE ) OBJECT ALL SUBLIME WE SHALL ACHIEVE IN TIME TO MAKE THE PUNISHMENT FIT THE CRIME , THE PUNISHMENT FIT THE CRIME . . . . . A SOURCE OF INNOCENT MERRIMENT , OF INNOCENT MERRIMENT ! ...... WHAT FOOLS WE MORTALS BE ! So much for the rule of law . There is nothing in the Constitution requiring that Congress employ common sense or for that matter any sense . We must keep in mind that the original Senate was not elected by the unwashed masses but by the state legislatures . If that were still the case who knows how long this trial might take . They could even depose or otherwise examine Monica behind those mysterious " closed doors " and who would care , especially without the polls to tell us what to think . +++ 052165 00001 arian35 - 09 : 22pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52462 ) } 00002 * " Socialism is only a transitory phase on the road to communism . " --Balint Vazsonyi 00003 upkis 1 / 26 / 99 9 : 07pm< / a> 00004 > 00005 supkis } 00006 *That whirring sound you hear is Darwin spinning in his grave ! ! ! ! 052166 00001 supkis - 09 : 22pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52462 ) } 00002 *Oog the Ugly being big and strong but not very cunning , had many descendents . They are everywhere . They always are horrified and amazed that anyone lies . Especially about sex . They also lie about sex but the vital difference is they THINK they are telling the truth . This is due to a lack of sufficient brain power . Hyde perfectly represents this ability . 052167 00001 donkirk - 09 : 22pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52462 ) } 00002 * " The President did not commit perjury . The President did not obstruct justice . He must not be removed from office . " > 00003 egetius . . . } 00004 * ( continued ) 7 . disseminating information received from officers of the Department of Justice of the United States to subjects of investigations conducted by lawfully authorized investigative officers and employees of the United States , for the purpose of aiding and assisting such subjects in their attempts to avoid criminal liability ; 8 . making or causing to be made false or misleading public statements for the purpose of deceiving the people of the United States into believing that a thorough and complete investigation had been conducted with respect to allegations of misconduct on the part of personnel of the executive branch of the United States and personnel of the Committee for the Re-election of the President , and that there was no involvement of such personnel in such misconduct : or 9 . endeavouring to cause prospective defendants , and individuals duly tried and convicted , to expect favoured treatment and consideration in return for their silence or false testimony , or rewarding individuals for their silence or false testimony . In all of this , Richard M . Nixon has acted in a manner contrary to his trust as President and subversive of constitutional government , to the great prejudice of the cause of law and justice and to the manifest injury of the people of the United States . Now , > 00005 Veggie , } 00006 *take a look at Article II : 1 . He has , acting personally and through his subordinates and agents , endeavoured to obtain from the Internal Revenue Service , in violation of the constitutional rights of citizens , confidential information contained in income tax returns for purposed not authorized by law , and to cause , in violation of the constitutional rights of citizens , income tax audits or other income tax investigations to be intitiated or conducted in a discriminatory manner . 2 . He misued the Federal Bureau of Investigation , the Secret Service , and other executive personnel , in violation or disregard of the constitutional rights of citizens , by directing or authorizing such agencies or personnel to conduct or continue electronic surveillance or other investigations for purposes unrelated to national security , the enforcement of laws , or any other lawful function of his office ; he did direct , authorize , or permit the use of information obtained thereby for purposes unrelated to national security , the enforcement of laws , or any other lawful function of his office ; and he did direct the concealment of certain records made by the Federal Bureau of Investigation of electronic surveillance . 3 . He has , acting personally and through his subordinates and agents , in violation or disregard of the constitutional rights of citizens , authorized and permitted to be maintained a secret investigative unit within the office of the President , financed in part with money derived from campaign contributions , which unlawfully utilized the resources of the Central Intelligence Agency , engaged in covert and unlawful activities , and attempted to prejudice the constitutional right of an accused to a fair trial . 4 . He has failed to take care that the laws were faithfully executed by failing to act when he knew or had reason to know that his close subordinates endeavoured to impede and frustrate lawful inquiries by duly constituted executive , judicial and legislative entities concerning the unlawful entry into the headquarters of the Democratic National Committee , and the cover-up thereof , and concerning other unlawful activities including those relating to the confirmation of Richard Kleindienst as Attorney General of the United States , the electronic surveillance of private citizens , the break-in in 052168 00001 hbmiller1 - 09 : 22pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52462 ) } 00002 * " I ' m only watching with complete bewilderment you and the " failed epicure " stew in the hypocrisy of your hateful diatribes . " Watch out , there , > 00003 dayrell , } 00004 *you ' re foamin ' agin . BTW do you have a twin brother named dayrell2 ? 052169 00001 Vegetius - 09 : 22pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52462 ) > 00002 donkirk - 09 : 17pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( #52151 of 52155 ) } 00003 * " The President did not commit perjury . The President did not obstruct justice . He must not be removed from office . " Did all the Articles Pass ? It is hard to take you seriouly with that caption . 052170 00001 bjhamel - 09 : 23pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52462 ) > 00002 roger660 . . . . } 00003 *You also have distorted the Republican Agenda . Flag burning is still on their list . They will need something to do after this , and flag burning has been their only contribution to our culture . 052171 00001 teririley - 09 : 23pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52462 ) } 00002 *Our government is a progressive instrument for the common good . > 00003 Veg , } 00004 *from zero respect to the smallest possible measure is still more . I never said to what degree . . . . 052172 00001 supkis - 09 : 26pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52462 ) } 00002 *Darwin would approve of my study of Oog ' s descendants . They are the " missing link " . Proof of Oog the Ugly is Hyde ' s incredibly ugly tie he wore on Saturday . It was an irresistably Oogish moment , that loud tie . Oogians are easy prey for used car salesmen or home siding guys . 052173 00001 hugsy - 09 : 27pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52462 ) } 00002 *The wide spread acceptance of lies and deceit , hmmm hmm hmmmm , now which side of this BC debate does that sound like . . . . . +++ 052174 00001 padu329 - 09 : 28pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52462 ) > 00002 bmiller---} 00003 *Agreed . . . . . as soon as it starts going badly for the House Managers , the GOPer ' s in the Senate will pull the plug on the trial . The R ' s have been doing everything they can to prolong this circus----I can ' t wait to watch them declare that it ' s time to fold the tent when it suits their public relations purpose . 052175 00001 supkis - 09 : 28pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52462 ) } 00002 *Well , Bill Clinton isn ' t knuckle walking around the Senate well , last I saw , but some GOPers certainly were . 052176 00001 Vegetius - 09 : 29pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52462 ) > 00002 teririley - 09 : 23pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( #52171 of 52172 ) } 00003 *Our government is a progressive instrument for the common good . Veg , from zero respect to the smallest possible measure is still more . I never said to what degree } 00004 *A feminist with even an iota of respect for Larry Flynt is a disgrace . 052177 00001 roger660 - 09 : 30pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52462 ) } 00002 *Through all the nonsense , smokescreens and political garbage , the American public continue to have a clear picture of what is happening . Most consider Clinton ' s case involves private sexual affair , and they approve of the way he is handling his job . They agree with the president on a wide range of issues . 052178 00001 jolietjake1 - 09 : 30pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52462 ) } 00002 * 00003 upkis 1 / 26 / 99 9 : 26pm< / a> 00004 Socialists are easy prey for . . . what ? Flatterers ? 052179 00001 Vegetius - 09 : 31pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52462 ) } 00002 *Looking back , the Watergate era seems by comparison a golden age of civility . The difference doesn ' t lie in the Republicans ' conduct ; then and now , they have been partisan , but within reason . It ' s the Democrats who have changed . During the Watergate hearings , there was no Republican Barney Frank or Maxine Waters in the House . There was no Republican James Carville smearing special prosecutor Leon Jaworski . A Republican Larry Flynt , digging up dirt on Democratic congressmen , was not even imaginable . Nixonite " dirty tricks " were the subject of investigation ; they weren ' t part of the process of investigation itself . Nixon ' s congressional defenders never became accessories to his crimes . By the same token , there has been no Democratic Howard Baker setting aside partisan interests to pursue the facts , no Democratic Barry Goldwater scorching his own party ' s president for lying and urging him to resign . Just as we no longer expect Clinton to behave honorably , we no longer expect the Democrats to transcend the narrowly partisan . So we already take for granted that the Senate Democrats will follow the lead of the House Democrats , though perhaps with a slightly loftier sense of decorum befitting the dignity of the chamber . Nobody assumes that they will convict their president even if the evidence shows that he has committed serious crimes . In the memorable phrase of New York ' s senior Democratic senator , Daniel Patrick Moynihan , the congressional Democrats , like their president , have " defined deviancy down . " joe sobran 052180 00001 macer235 - 09 : 31pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52462 ) > 00002 Vegetius : } 00003 * " I have absolutely no alliegence to the religious Right . " } 00004 *Nor have I seen evidence of such in your case . I can ' t figure if your positions are due to a lifetime party allegiance , particularly since--under Clinton--the Democratic leaderships position on many issues ( except those dear to the Religious Right ) has moved closer to that of moderate republicans . In foreign affairs , it has shifted far away from the old Vietnam syndrome and pacifistic stuff . Don ' t forget the Republicans have always had their isolationist wing . You may recall the comments of Pat Robertson and Pat Buchanan opposing Bush ' s proposal to undo Sadam ' s invasion of Kuwait . I predict that one of the effects of massive defections by the non-religious right as a result of this fiasco will be that the Democrats may move even further from their Far Left faction , while a small influx of Social Conservatives into the Republican ranks may increase their problems . } 00005 * " Moderate " Republicans have complained , behind the scenes , of the power of the fanatics . Visit a few rural areas of the South and see what I mean . I had that experience for the first time a few months ago . The hate is visceral . } 00006 *Some moderates will tell you they voted against impeachment mainly because they feared that to do otherwise would bring the wrath of the religious right upon them in the primaries . To my mind , that ' s no excuse . If their conscience dictated a " no " vote , they could have defected . They ' d have become unbeatable as Democrats and even strengthened that party ' s centrism or center / right tendencies . However , they made their choice and the public will render judgement . 052181 00001 bjhamel - 09 : 31pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52462 ) } 00002 *To all of you who wonder why the Rabid House Republicans are trying so hard to prolong this . . . think of the alternative . They would actually have to govern , a skill they don ' t have a clue about . Better a 2 year old try to drive a car . 052182 00001 carldenis - 09 : 32pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52462 ) } 00002 *Hi ! This forum is getting boring . Most posters have remained unaltered in their thinking , pouring forth the same arguments and name brandings . Yet there are many basic issues that should force reflexion . Obviously , morality should be one of them but since attitudes are so biased one way or the other , there is no point in bringing it about . Let ' s discuss the influence of the Press and more to the point , its attitude . The NYT posts three editorials everyday . There is at least one in favor of Mr Clinton ' s permanence on the Job , unless the others are dedicated to the same subject , in which case , all three will favor Mr . Clinton and fustigate its opposition . CNN headline news will not air an opinion unless it is dedicated to oppose Mr . Clinton ' s removal from office . It goes on the same way , ad infinitum and at nauseam . Is nobody concerned by the shifting role of the Fourth Power ? Or is it that the real power , money , has managed to engulf all others ? Most major media today are the property of business moguls with other interests to foster . Manipulating public opinion in order to keep in power the most reckless dispenser of pork barrel ' s laddlings would be very fit and proper to those interests . How can such a blatantly demagogueric state of the Union address be acclaimed by intelligent people as even feasible ? Think about this : According to polls , Mr . Clinton is a liar ( 70% of the population ) . Yet , a majority of Americans beleive in the lies of Mr . Clinton ' s Address . Seems a majority in America truly believes in Santa . Even if he is a proven liar . +++ 052183 00001 hugsy - 09 : 32pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52461 ) > 00002 Vegetius - 09 : 31pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST } 00003 *Seems you are saying , that during the watergate era , there was no wide spread acceptance of lies and deceit . 052184 00001 supkis - 09 : 34pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52461 ) } 00002 *Flynt descended from the clever clever cave man who persuaded Moogica to pose for his statue " Willendorf Venus " . He then showed his statue to the other cave men and this is how the first sex investigation began . " Oook . What dis ? " 052185 00001 jimmie50 - 09 : 34pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52461 ) > 00002 amiante - 08 : 50pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( #52109 of 52142 ) } 00003 *But Janet Reno is undoubtedly the worst of his appointments . She is without any substance , without courage , without the character to make a decent attorney general . And her lack of backbone has contributed much to our present crisis . } 00004 *I think you are much too hard on Janet . It was the Democratic Congress that passed and Bill who signed the re-authorization of the OIC statute . She got stuck with the job of trying to honestly implement it . The law itself stinks . I think she is doing just what the Republicans are charging she ' s stonewalling on the appointment of any new OIC ' s . She now realizes that the OIC statute is bad for the country . If she were to resign , any new AG candidate would be ' required ' by the Senate Republicans to appoint OIC ' s as a condition for confirmation . Similiar to what happened to Richardson in the Nixon era . He had to promise not to interfere with a Special Prosecutor . That ' s why he resigned when Dick wanted him fired . 052186 00001 jerryhere - 09 : 35pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52461 ) } 00002 *Bill has flaws > 00003 terri--} 00004 *2 faced ? For what ? Abortion ? Glass ceiling ? Some women shouldn ' t have the right to vote . Some women shouldn ' t have the ' privilege ' to drive . 052187 00001 overlord21 - 09 : 36pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52461 ) > 00002 k0cxc0 - 05 : 57pm Jan 26 , 1999 } 00003 * " DEMOCRATIC AGENDA : save Social Security " } 00004 *It ' s hard to save Social Security , at a time when people are living longer than ever , and the Democrats under the Tip O ' Neills of the world ( and other drunk sailors turned Democrat ward hack politicians of course ) are giving them annual Social Security pay raises twice the rate of the annual Cost of Living . } 00005 * " more teachers . . . more police officers " } 00006 *This Democrud prank and vote-buying scheme is similar to that stunt they pulled with the " 100 , 000 Cops " a few years , and a few scaremongerings ago . They propose something having no conception of the fact that just hiring new teachers by itself won ' t help save the public education system . Kids and their bad attitudes , parents and their bad attitudes , teen pregnancy , illiteracy , there are so many problems to fix , NO amount of money by itself could fix it . But throwing good money after bad is what Democrat Party politics is all about . Don ' t think a problem through , just deluge it with money and hope the Ouija board was right when it said the problem will magically disappear . Democrats ALWAYS take the easy way out , then make us ALL pay for it later . Just roll the dice , pray to Baal , sacrifice a child here and a dove there , and run like hell when the whole house of cards falls apart . Democrats , what a bunch of losers . } 00007 * " campaign finance reform " } 00008 *Those Liberals have Buddhist monks and Chinese agents falling out of the trees right and all over hell and back , have given back 3 MILLION in illegal contributions already , and are being indicted so frequently it looks like their NEXT spending program had better be to build new courthouses just to put those Chinese alone on trial . } 00009 * " Patient ' s Bill of Rights---socialized health care . } 00010 *They tried it once , and got killed in the media blitz . If they try it again and I hope they do , they ' ll lose in 2000 by a landslide . We ' ve already got the Tax Cut issue to nail ' em on , so go ahead Libs , make our day . . . AGAIN . } 00011 * " higher minimum wage---destroy all small businesses " . } 00012 *Never gonna happen , not with us in charge . Let the burger flippers and the toilet cleaners give THEMSELVES a raise , by getting an education then getting a better job . } 00013 *And screw the Teamster Gangsters . They ' ve been getting way too much press on that as it is . I don ' t care WHAT those Big Mob-Controlled Labor stiffs want . Let all those labor union crooks rot for all I care . } 00014 * " 50% reduction in welfare rolls---bold faced lie . " } 00015 *We ' ve given ' em 2 straight years , no more than 5 lifetime . After that , if they ' re still lying around getting fatter while the rest of us have to work , hey , let ' s just gas the SOBs . hehe . } 00016 * " clean air and water---good one . " } 00017 *Yeah , and how ' bout some nice cozy habitats for those dumbassed Spotted Owls . . . and who cares about the 30 , 000 Oregonians who lost jobs because that damn bug-eyed bird couldn ' t figure out that a Chain Saw ' s a really bad omen . } 00018 * " anti-Tobacco---if it ' s so evil , MAKE IT ILLEGAL . Hypocrite . " } 00019 *What are they gonna do if Big Tobacco gets peed off and opens a Black Market and cuts into Tax Revenues ? Won ' t that be interesting , less money in the Treasury and all . Who will take the blame for the deficit then . } 00020 * " gun control---sue the gun manufacturers just like tobacco . " } 00021 *How ' bout Liberal Population Control . Is there some place where I can go to be one of Uncle Bill ' s " Volunteers " for urban liberal population control ? LOL ! } 00022 * " term limits---I can only pray . " } 00023 *Thank God he ' s gone in 2001 . Gore can ' t possibly be that bad . } 00024 * " balanced budget----another bold faced lie . " } 00025 *The Congress spends the money . . . or doesn ' t . It didn ' t , and now it ' s a black ink budget for the first time since Nixon , no thanks to Gephardt and Daschle . } 00026 * " free trade---open trade with China , so they ' ll donate to the DNC . " } 00027 *Hey , we paid ' em back . Now they can lob Scuds into my backyard . Let ' s add Treason to the list of charges Clintstone ' s facing . +++ 052188 00001 tmocars1 - 09 : 37pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52460 ) } 00002 *used car salesmen and home siding guys . . . Now there , at last is an apt description of Clinton and his gang 052189 00001 supkis - 09 : 37pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52460 ) } 00002 *The Democrats are keeping Starr in because he is stupid . He is singlehandedly , with a little help from the " worst dressed " Linda Tripp , totally destroying the Republican Party . This is so wonderful , the Democrats can ' t believe their good fortune . 052190 00001 supkis - 09 : 39pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52460 ) } 00002 *Oog is slack jawed . He is stupid so he gets bested when brains must be used , not brawn . He has his uses which is why his genes are stil in the human pool , but I wouldn ' t follow him very far--he might run into another cave bear . 052191 00001 hugsy - 09 : 39pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52460 ) > 00002 tmocars1 - 09 : 37pm Jan 26 , 1999 } 00003 *anythink interesting happen today during with the trial ? Some said Web Hubble is in-a-trouble again . True ? 052192 00001 padu329 - 09 : 40pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52460 ) > 00002 bjhamel---} 00003 *I am saddened to admit that my Representative to Congress , Gerald B . Solomon , was the chief sponsor of the flag-burning amendment in the House . Insofar as I am aware , flag-burning is not a pressing national issue . . . . have you noticed any in your neighborhood ? It is another shameless , patronizing GOP stunt to appeal to the good ol ' boy American Legion types who love this sort of symbolic theatre . The most amazing aspect of their folly is that a flag-burning amendment is going to antagonize the 1st-amendment zealots , who are going to respond by doing guess what ? . . . . Burning more flags ! 052193 00001 Vegetius - 09 : 40pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52460 ) > 00002 macer235 - 09 : 31pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( #52180 of 52182 ) } 00003 *I was until October 1998 , a life long democrat . I worked for ( The Late ) Paul Tsongas in 1992 . The campaign was an eye opener . Late nights beers with McCurry ( worked for Bob Kerry ) and meeting Bill Press and Pat Buchanon . BIll Press thinks Pat Buchanon is the greatest guy he wouldn ' t vote for EVER . I found most democrats clueless , anti-American and elitist . At that point I started to wake up . I finally switched parties which is strictly symbolic ( and stupid ) in Taxachusetts . 052194 00001 overlord21 - 09 : 40pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52460 ) > 00002 upkis - 09 : 37pm Jan 26 , 1999 } 00003 * " The Democrats are keeping Starr in because he is stupid . " } 00004 *Funny , I could have sworn he was totally ignoring you Democrats . } 00005 * " He is singlehandedly , with a little help from the " worst dressed " Linda Tripp , totally destroying the Republican Party . " } 00006 *That sounds like a desperate attempt at reverse logic in hopes we ' ll actually do what you REALLY want us to do . . . get him to stop convicting half the state of Arkansas , while Clinton and his wench go scot free . } 00007 * " This is so wonderful , the Democrats can ' t believe their good fortune . " } 00008 *Yeah , if you think being the Minority Party , and having no hope of NOT being the Minority Party after 2000 , is " good fortune " . Hey guy , " good fortune " to you for MANY , MANY centuries to come ! LOL ! 052195 00001 roger660 - 09 : 42pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52460 ) > 00002 carldenis : } 00003 * " Is nobody concerned by the shifting role of the Fourth Power ? " } 00004 *The news media are changing . They are not so much political as they are entertainment-oriented . They are driven more by ratings , circulation and profit than anything else . News is conflict , controversy , celebrity -- the unusual and odd and startling . Sober , reflective , in-depth reports that try to inform are lost . There ' s an escalation in tabloid journalism . . . what ' s coming after this ? What can top the president of the United States in a sordid sex scandal ? A president as a serial murderer stalking the streets of Washington , D . C . ? +++ 052196 00001 hugsy - 09 : 42pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52460 ) > 00002 Vegetius - 09 : 40pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST } 00003 *I liked Tsongas . You think he was clueless ? 052197 00001 bjhamel - 09 : 42pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52460 ) > 00002 supkis . . . . . } 00003 *You hit the nail on the head . One of the better things that Clinton has always had going for him is the sheer , unbelievable stupidity of his enemies . From King Stupid himself , Ken Starr , to Dan Burton , Dan Quayle , Bob Barr , Henry Hyde , Tom Delay , Dick Armey , etc . The total IQ of this list cannot add up to 100 . I say , let them continue to go on . The longer these clowns have the stage , the more likely a compete Democratic victory in 2000 is . 052198 00001 tmocars1 - 09 : 43pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52460 ) } 00002 *Everybody Sing Now ! His baloney has a first name , It ' s " I did not inhale . " His baloney has a second name , " I wasn ' t getting tail . " He loves to sing it every day , The White House people all just saaaaaaay , That Billy Clinton has a way , Of making bull*&%* sound ok ! ! ! ! ! 052199 00001 donkirk - 09 : 43pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52460 ) } 00002 * " The President did not commit perjury . The President did not obstruct justice . He must not be removed from office . " 00003 immie50 1 / 26 / 99 9 : 34pm< / a> 00004 > 00005 Jimmie -} 00006 *Thankfully , the Independent Counsel Statute expires on June 30 , 1999 -- just five months from now . Even so , Reno should immediately FIRE Starr for " cause . " The finding of a prima facie case by Chief Judge Johnson that he leaked grand jury information in violation of Rule 6 ( e ) is sufficient grounds , in my view . My earlier post on the matter details other grounds , including what Sam Dash called Starr ' s " unlawful and unconstitutional " entry into the impeachment arena and Starr ' s being " an aggressive advocate " for impeachment instead of an unbiased finder of fact . Whaddaya think ? 052200 00001 Vegetius - 09 : 44pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52460 ) > 00002 hugsy - 09 : 42pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( #52196 of 52197 ) } 00003 *Vegetius - 09 : 40pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST I liked Tsongas . You think he was clueless ? } 00004 *NO , I think he was a great man . In a different state he may have been more of a libertarian . 052201 00001 svcarlson - 09 : 44pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52460 ) > 00002 Don Kirk - } 00003 *Did you say the Post covered the three dirty lawyers ? Which article ? Did they put it in their " timeline " ? 052202 00001 tmocars1 - 09 : 45pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52460 ) > 00002 ugsy . . . } 00003 *Of course nothing interesting happened in the trial today . the Democrats are remaining just as stupid as ever , or blind , or partisan , or all three . 052203 00001 hugsy - 09 : 46pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52460 ) } 00002 * 00003 egetius 1 / 26 / 99 9 : 44pm< / a> 00004 he certainly had Clinton nailed early , said his middle class tax cuts were bull and that he was just pandering in order to win the primaries . Tsongas would have been good , IMUHO . 052204 00001 overlord21 - 09 : 47pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52460 ) > 00002 egetius - 09 : 40pm Jan 26 , 1999 } 00003 * " I was until October 1998 , a life long democrat . " } 00004 *Hey , dude . . . welcome to the " Right " side . We ' ve always got a place for someone willing to face the truth like that . Personally , if I ' d been a Democrat , I ' d have asked for a gun and a single bullet to remove the shame . But that ' s just me , I ' m a 2nd Amendment kinda guy ! LOL ! } 00005 * " I found most democrats clueless , anti-American and elitist . " } 00006 * I ' d like to find them all being shipped to China where they belong . . . or maybe Bikini Atoll . Hey , aren ' t we overdue for a nuke test ? hehe . } 00007 * " At that point I started to wake up " } 00008 *I can ' t imagine anyone falling asleep in the company of all those swell , photogenic , ideas-laden Democrats . lol ! } 00009 * " I finally switched parties which is strictly symbolic ( and stupid ) in Taxachusetts . " } 00010 *Massachussetts . . . don ' t they have LSD in the public water system ? I can ' t imagine any other explanation for Ted Kennedy . Uh , that is , of course , THIRTY-SIX YEARS AS MASSACHUSSETTS SENATOR Ted Kennedy . What a nice state though , I ' d never have to be afraid of being a totally perverted drunk , and I wouldn ' t have to worry if I happen to drive off a bridge and get some nice chick killed . And I could be a flaming gay too . Gee , what a nice state ! Oooh ! rotflmao ! 052205 00001 hugsy - 09 : 47pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52460 ) > 00002 tmocars1 - 09 : 45pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST } 00003 *you see the Cardinal ' s advice on how to recognize the force of evil ? ( it really cracks me up , I ' ve been posting it for awhile ) +++ 052206 00001 tmocars1 - 09 : 48pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52460 ) } 00002 *dirty lawyers You mean kendall and mills ain ' t been taking baths again ? I was wondering what that stink from the east coast was . 052207 00001 teririley - 09 : 48pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52460 ) } 00002 *Our government is a progressive instrument for the common good . > 00003 Jerryhere ...... } 00004 *I ' m lost now ...... was the post directed for Terri ment for me ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > 00005 Veg , } 00006 *I never really considered myself a feminest , maybe a post-fem but certainly not one of those men haiting types ...... but if you being for equal protection under the law and having dominion over my own body and maybe even voting AND driving , I guess I am : - ) 052208 00001 tmocars1 - 09 : 49pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52460 ) > 00002 hugsy } 00003 *haven ' t seen the Cardinal ' s advice . . . email it to me , I gotta go off line for a while . . . 052209 00001 home4 - 09 : 49pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52460 ) } 00002 *It doesn ' t seem right to refer to our president as Slick Willie and to the first lady by some of the things I ' ve heard her called . These nicknames take away from the dignity of the office of the presidency . Maybe we should take a cue from our British brethren who refer to their first couple as His Highness and Her Majesty , or from the Catholics who refer to the Pope as His Holiness . Perhaps refering to our president and first lady as His Lubricity and Her Duplicity would help , in a small way , to restore the dignity to the office . The Lord knows it could use some . 052210 00001 supkis - 09 : 50pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52460 ) } 00002 *Oogians are busy tonight , I see . > 00003 Veggie , } 00004 *are you really in Mass ? It could be dangerous what with all those vegetarians running around in Birkenstocks there ! Surprized you are still alive , or are you a vegetable literally since you are now a Republican ? 052211 00001 Vegetius - 09 : 50pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52460 ) > 00002 donkirk - 09 : 43pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( #52199 of 52200 ) } 00003 *My earlier post on the matter details other grounds , including what Sam Dash called Starr ' s " unlawful and unconstitutional " entry into the impeachment arena and Starr ' s being " an aggressive advocate " for impeachment instead of an unbiased finder of fact . Whaddaya think ? What Sam Dash did was disgrace and in an earlier and less amoral time , would have been chastized as an unprofessional , opportunistic disgraceful act . Dash new that dignity had died and that democrats would ignore what was once considered an unthinkable action from any man of character . 052212 00001 carldenis - 09 : 50pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52460 ) > 00002 roger660 } 00003 *Do you mean to say that two more years of BC are going to foster media ratings ? 052213 00001 arian35 - 09 : 50pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52460 ) } 00002 * " Socialism is only a transitory phase on the road to communism . " --Balint Vazsonyi Slack jawed . Hmmmmm . Oog ' s genes perfectly evident in BC ' s silly grin ! The bubba look ! Especially when he beats the bongo . Bubba-loo ! 052214 00001 sks3146 - 09 : 51pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52460 ) } 00002 *It ' s amazing , The same G . O . P . led congress can claim " We ' re all moralistic " , we ' re the leaders in providing the purity that makes America beautiful . Bull ...... That ' s what I say . This trial is not about who broke the law . This is just another Republican tactic ( as stupid as they are ) to tide public opinion towards them . They ' ll never win in a court of law . If they could let off a scoundrel like Reagan , that dumb-witted fool , what thinks that they are capable of impeaching a president who admittely is not respecting his marriage correctly , but at least has done more for this country than a former president who doesn ' t know right from left . Dan 052215 00001 johnsdad1b - 09 : 51pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52460 ) } 00002 * " There can be no high civility without a deep morality . " . . . . . Ralph Waldo Emerson > 00003 roger660 - 09 : 42pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( #52195 of 52202 ) } 00004 *Watched McGlauflin ( SP ? ) tonight on TV . . . you are right about the 4th estate . Hadn ' t seen that show since the very late 80 ' s when at my buddy ' s , and his wife watched it . Tonight , it was a comedy ! +++ 052216 00001 Vegetius - 09 : 52pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52458 ) > 00002 supkis - 09 : 50pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( #52210 of 52211 ) } 00003 *Oogians are busy tonight , I see . Veggie , are you really in Mass ? It could be dangerous what with all those vegetarians running around in Birkenstocks there ! Surprized you are still alive , or are you a vegetable literally since you are now a Republican ? It is too cold for Birkenstocks so I am safe until spring . 052217 00001 donkirk - 09 : 52pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52458 ) } 00002 * " The President did not commit perjury . The President did not obstruct justice . He must not be removed from office . " 00003 vcarlson 1 / 26 / 99 9 : 44pm< / a> 00004 > 00005 svcarlson-} 00006 *Yes , both the NY TIMES and the Washington POST carried the story in yesterday ' s editions . It was a rewrite / update of an AP story by Peter Yost . You might wish to check the archives at the Washington POST . I couldn ' t find the article in the archives of the NY TIMES . Geraldo had the story on his show last night and , of course , he claims to have revealed the same thing in October . ( Showed videotape of his show on October 13 , 1998 . ) 052218 00001 hugsy - 09 : 53pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52458 ) > 00002 tmcors , } 00003 *you ' ll have to catch it here : In today ' s world , the cardinal said , the devil ' s force comes through widespread acceptance of ``lies and deceit . . . the idolatry of money . . . the idolatry of sex . ' ' LOL ! 052219 00001 supkis - 09 : 54pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52458 ) } 00002 *You guy ' s just don ' t get it , but I forgive you since Oogians tend to be a little dense , you know . This is why the impeachment is so surreal . You have to sweat real hard to hate the Democrats in this matter , especially since the female you have representing your side is uglier than the usual Oogian . So let us relax and lay on our cave bear hides and enjoy life . 052220 00001 jolietjake1 - 09 : 55pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52458 ) } 00002 * 00003 arldenis 1 / 26 / 99 9 : 32pm< / a> 00004 Good stuff . Righto . Cheers . The rest of you fibs are boring tonight . . . . Bring back the mildly amusing drunk from Mississippi ! ( Hey , BTW Ada , how come you ' re not taking any of these elitist troglodyte know-nothing lib friends of yours to task for bashing Southerners and country-folk in their best attempt at pseudo-intellectual flatulence ? ) You ' re not one of them SELF-HATING Southerners are ya ? 052221 00001 carldenis - 09 : 55pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52458 ) > 00002 Home4 } 00003 *I loved that ! " His Lubricity " , " Her Duplicity " . Should we add ; " Her Ugliness " 052222 00001 roger660 - 09 : 55pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52458 ) > 00002 carldenis There ' s a whole growth industry now in news talk shows , so-called journalists discussing the case 24-hours a day , everybody desperate for the latest tidbit to up their ratings or circulation , hordes of reporters , cameras , microphones hounding Monica Lewinski . . . it is a media circus . Two more years of this spectacle would great for ratings , if they can keep the story fresh . New bimbos , new Jane Does , or whatever . 052223 00001 hugsy - 09 : 56pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52458 ) > 00002 home4 - 09 : 49pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST LOL , good one . 052224 00001 tmocars1 - 09 : 56pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52458 ) > 00002 Got it hugsy , } 00003 *thanks bye all you clintonista lemings remember Republicans may suck , but Democrats swallow ! 052225 00001 Vegetius - 09 : 57pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52458 ) > 00002 teririley - 09 : 48pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( #52207 of 52217 ) } 00003 *Our government is a progressive instrument for the common good . > 00004 Jerryhere ...... } 00005 *I ' m lost now ...... was the post directed for Terri ment for me ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > 00006 Veg , } 00007 *I never really considered myself a feminest , maybe a post-fem but certainly not one of those men haiting types ...... but if you being for equal protection under the law and having dominion over my own body and maybe even voting AND driving , I guess I am : - ) > 00008 Teri , } 00009 *you never lose control of your body -unless you are raped-of course . VOting is close but , I am definitely against females drivers ! Especiallly when in a rotary in Newton . knocking the ball right out of the park . Poor old " A " Team ; their . 077 average against Mr . Starr in court cases won ' t suffer , though , because Webb wasn ' t being represented by any of them . 052240 00001 supkis - 10 : 05pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52458 ) } 00002 *In NY you eyeball EVERYONE . It helps to look insane . Wave a squeegee and threaten to clean their windows ! 052241 00001 carldenis - 10 : 05pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52458 ) > 00002 roger660 } 00003 *You mentionned the word " desperate " . This is precisely the quality I find in the NYT editos . There is a frantic quality to their editorial approach and that of many others that doesn ' t bid well for the system . What are they afraid of ? Does it have to do with the 900 FBI files floating around ? Or is Larry of concern ? 052242 00001 roger660 - 10 : 07pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52458 ) > 00002 vegetius } 00003 *If the cigar wasn ' t lit , then you must acquit ! 052243 00001 supkis - 10 : 07pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52458 ) } 00002 * " If she swallowed , we should have followed " ? 052244 00001 jimmie50 - 10 : 08pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52458 ) > 00002 donkirk - 09 : 43pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( §§052199 of 52202 ) } 00003 *Even so , Reno should immediately FIRE Starr for " cause . " } 00004 * I don ' t think Bill wants anybody rocking the boat just now . He thinks he ' s ahead . Maybe after the ' Trial ' is over , but then again , I don ' t think he wants to go out of his way to get impeached again . The finding of a prima facie case by Chief Judge Johnson that he leaked grand jury information in violation of Rule 6 ( e ) is sufficient grounds , in my view . The way I understand the prima facie case , is that it ' s pretty easy to establish . I don ' t think most people would accept it . I think she needs more . The Catch 22 is that Ken thinks it would be a conflict for the DOJ to investigate him , and considering the point of the statute , he has a point . Without the investigation , you can ' t build the case for discharge . That ' s the ' black hole ' of logic caused by the statute . I once supported the OIC , but am now convinced that the Founding Fathers would be against it . The Special Prosecutor worked just fine in the Nixon case . The House and Senate really provide the ' checks and balances ' needed . I don ' t think the Founding Fathers worried about whether or not Nixon could cheat on his taxes , or Bill on his wife . They were concerned about liberty ! I agree on the Dash thing , but most media portrayed Dash as ' pissed ' because Starr went BEFORE the HJC . They missed the whole point , so it was a futile effort on Sam ' s part , except for his personal integrity . 052245 00001 jackgar - 10 : 08pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52458 ) } 00002 *The Justice Dept , under attack by the public for pursueing their quarry relentlessly , didn ' t give up . Having proof of unlawful activities , but not enough to convince a jury because of disappearing witnesses , people falling on their swords , smart lawyers , local corruption of judges and courts finally found a way to get their man . INCOME TAX EVASION . . I ' m not suggesting President Clinton is in Old Al Capones league or as corrupt but he sure is as arrogant . Old Al should have paid his income taxes . . Young Bill could have kept his sex urges in check . So Right has won out again . It wasn ' t Bill ' s enemies that got him . It was his own Justice Dept . +++ 052246 00001 hugsy - 10 : 09pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52456 ) } 00002 *The rules sound crazy but when your syphoning 6 lanes down to 2 in order to go through the tunnel to Logan , they really work wonderfully . 00002 *BILL CLINTON AND AL GORE ARE LIARS . THEY CLAIM TO BE ENVIRONMENTALISTS BUT THEY HAVE USED THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO REINSITUTE WORLD-WIDE WHALE KILLING USING A TRIBE OF INDIANS IN WASHINGTON AS PROXIES . MORE THAN A DOZEN INDIAN TRIBES ALONG THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST COAST ALONE ARE POISED TO MOVE AHEAD WITH SIMILAR CLAIMS FOR ' CULTURAL WHALING ' RIGHTS IF THE BLOODTHIRSTY CLINTON ADMINSTRATION IS SUCCESSFUL IN SHATTERING THE WORLD WIDE MORATORIUM THAT HAS BEEN IN EFFECT FOR 17 YEARS ! JAPAN AND NORWAY WHALE KILLING INDUSTRY HAS FRONTED MONEY TO RESTART WORLDWIDE COMMERCIAL WHALING , AND WANT TO USE THEIR DEATH FLEETS TO KILL THE WHALES ' CONTRACTING " FOR THE NUMEROUS INDIAN TRIBES , VILLAGES AND NATIONS THAT CLAIM WHALING AS A " CULTURAL RIGHT . " donreeves spammed the site last night . He is such a Clinton loyalist he is willing to sacrifice the international moratorium on whaling to promote Clinton . Here is a rebuttal to his misinformatio he had the gall to post last night . 1 . The Makah Indian tribes want to preserve a tradition . . . wrong donny , they haven ' t killed a harmless whale in over 70 years ! 2 . The Makah wish to slaughter 4 whales . . . wrong again donny , they wish to slaughter 20 gray whales , that is at a rate of 4 per year spam breath . 3 . The gray whales just came off the endangered species list this decade after being decimated by bloodthirsty whalers . TRIBES AND NATIONS ARE LINING UP TO FOLLOW THE MAKAH LEAD . 4 . The Makah ' s treaty with the United States is superceded by the International Whaling Commission ' s agreement . The Makah have no right to hunt whales . If they had hunted whales for 00003 subsistence < / b> 00004 purposes they would be allowed under the 1982 IWC moratorium agreement to continue to kill whales . But they stopped their barbaric practices decades earlier . 5 . The Clinton / Gore enviro-phony administratio was absolutely wrong to waste $320 , 000 in taxpayers money subsidizing the Makah effort to apply to the IWC to slaughter whales for non-subsistence purposes . 6 . 052258 00001 jerryhere - 10 : 24pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52455 ) } 00002 *Bill has flaws > 00003 Dork : } 00004 *I think that the Senate has the last word . 052259 00001 arkie10 - 10 : 24pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52455 ) } 00002 *Gosh , let ' s have Prez Bill pardon Adolf Hitler while we ' re at it . He improved the economy , was popular with the people , and was [or would have been] hard done by at Nuremburg . They have so much in common ! 052260 00001 hugsy - 10 : 25pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52455 ) > 00002 supkis , } 00003 *not in the physical sense . But I will give you credit for trying to make a sexual joke . Here , learn somthing Main Entry : ob·du·rate Function : adjective 1 a : stubbornly persistent in wrongdoing b : hardened in feelings 2 : resistant to persuasion or softening influences 052261 00001 carldenis - 10 : 25pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52455 ) } 00002 *I truly believe republicans made a tactical error : They should have impeached Reno first . Then with the real obstructor of justice out of the picture , the public might have gotten a fairer view of the mobsters in the WH . 052262 00001 spinthis - 10 : 26pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52455 ) } 00002 *The Media is the Message Does anyone here believe that Impeachment-Gate would be where is it today if it were not the fact that it provides ratings ( and revenues ) to cable channels that otherwise would be covering El Nino ? McLuhan was right . The Media is driving the news rather than visa a versa . Would that he were here today to condemn this bullsh*t ! ! ! 052263 00001 supkis - 10 : 26pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52455 ) > 00002 Jerry , } 00003 *dear , only an oogian descendant ( see much earlier postings about the adventures of Oog the Ugly ) would think that calling someone a name is funny . " Dork " must be refering to your alter ego . 052264 00001 svcarlson - 10 : 26pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52455 ) } 00002 *Most of the impeachment enthusiasts have no clue . But the pope put his finger on it today . The guilt-ridden Southerners ( over slavery , a Civil War which caused so much destruction ) are being made to feel the guilt of abortions justified by law . Their righteous guilt is redirected toward Bill Clinton as a symbol of the law allowing abortion . The Pope said it is a Civil War . But , the war is not really over this . Many , though not all , who spout hatred over abortion , spout hate in general . The war is about continuing to try to enslave people in hopelessness and lack of opportunity , and lack of heart for poor , abandoned communities , including many babies . As Jesse Jackson says , Lott is leading these abortion-haters who focus on Clinton , but his state is number one - in infant mortality . How can the Clinton bashers care about the unborn , but not about the barely born ? Furthermore , to bash women as only suitable for bearing children and looking good--does not seem to be the Pope ' s message either . Yet Clinton-haters hate him in part for advancing women ' s rights . And yes , most advancing women don ' t think a woman ' s body is dirty , as was so evident in Monica ' s testimony . I don ' t think the Pope thinks woman is dirty , he thinks a woman ' s body is God ' s temple . Not to be ridiculed or intimidated . The Pope ' s message , in the middle of all this destructive hate and oppression--deserves to heard for a long time . 052265 00001 donkirk - 10 : 27pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52455 ) } 00002 * " The President did not commit perjury . The President did not obstruct justice . He must not be removed from office . " > 00003 supkis - 10 : 22pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( §§052257 of 52258 ) } 00004 *I think you ' re a mite horny , ma ' am . With all due respect . *teehee* +++ 052266 00001 home4 - 10 : 27pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52454 ) > 00002 carldenis , } 00003 *glad you mentioned the 900 FBI files . This proves the superiority of the Democrats . They got a lot better information and on more people than than the GOP got in the Watergate breakin , and , so far , have gotten away with it . 052267 00001 sbode2 - 10 : 27pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52454 ) } 00002 *hunting for susbsistence is a barbaric practice ? is the way you aquire food more noble ? 052268 00001 arkie10 - 10 : 28pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52454 ) > 00002 Yes , carldenis . } 00003 *With Ms . Reno in charge , we have " Buckley ' s " chance of getting the truth . 052269 00001 supkis - 10 : 28pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52454 ) } 00002 *This must mean that you are still sitting here listening because you don ' t even have a cucumber ? Isn ' t that a bit sad ? About being limp . . . 052270 00001 dayrell1 - 10 : 29pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52454 ) > 00002 donkirk - 10 : 16pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( #52252 } 00003 *You ' ve outlined just a few of the reasons why your chief won ' t beat this rap and why the votes will narrowly be there for conviction with the possibility of no removal . Conviction will prevent the politically suicidal antics you describe and will also assure the American voter that the likes of WJC will never be able to hold public office or the public trust again . 052271 00001 arkie10 - 10 : 30pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52454 ) } 00002 *Glad to see Prez Bill so worshipful at the temple of Monica ' s body . They should make him a saint . 052272 00001 donkirk - 10 : 32pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52454 ) } 00002 * " The President did not commit perjury . The President did not obstruct justice . He must not be removed from office . " > 00003 svcarlson - 10 : 26pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( #52265 of 52266 ) } 00004 *No , the story to which I refer concerned a group of right-wing lawyers and had nothing to do with Lewinsky ' s correction in her proffer of February 1 and 3 . Three attorneys , whose names are Porter ( from Starr ' s law firm ) , Marcus ( a " cut-out , " according to Lucianne Goldberg ) and Rosenweing ( a member of Starr ' s staff ) apparently worked in collusion against the President in the Jones case . Somehow , Linda Tripp and Lucianne Goldberg were involved , also . This perhaps sheds a little light on Starr ' s refusal to answer Zoe Lofgren ' s questions in the House Judiciary Committee hearing about when he first learned of a tape recording of a woman -any woman -- having a relationship with the President . If Starr knew about this well before Starr approached him about January 8th , things could get very sticky , indeed . 052273 00001 supkis - 10 : 33pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52454 ) } 00002 *Where is Gildenstern ? 052274 00001 jimmie50 - 10 : 35pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52454 ) > 00002 donkirk - 10 : 16pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( #52252 of 52252 ) } 00003 *The day that ' s done , I would advise the President to issue pardons for Monica , Hillary , Webb Hubbell , Susan MacDougal , Julie Hiatt Steele ( especially her ) and everyone else who has run afoul of Starr ' s inquisition . } 00004 *The Steele situation is the most outrageous . Linda Tripp and another Willey friend ( Cardoza ? ) contradict Willey also . The John Doe who Ken has , says he found out in 97 . That seems to support Steele . The only thing he really has on her is appearing on Larry King Live . But I think the American people will forgive her for that . President , Vice President and all civil officers of the United States SHALL BE REMOVED FROM OFFICE upon impeachment for and conviction of treason , bribery or other high crimes and misdemeanors . " Try to stay calm . The orderlies will be there soon to give you your bath and put you to bed . Take your pills . All of them . +++ 052282 00001 funbarwebtv . ne - 10 : 41pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52453 ) } 00002 *6 . CLINTON AND GORE LIED TO US ENVIRONMENTALISTS ABOUT CARING ABOUT THE ENVIRONMENT TO GET OUR VOTES . THEY CAN ' T EVEN MAIMTAIN THE MORATORIUM IN PLACE 17 YEARS THAT ' ENEMY OF THE ENVIRONMENT ' RONALD REAGAN AND GEORGE BUSH AGREED TO AND ENFORCED SINCE 1982 . REAGAN AND THE REPUBLICANS ARE MORE FRIENDS OF THE ENVIRONMENT THAN THIS LYING PHONY . ONLY THE MEDIA REFUSE TO TOUCH THIS STORY BECAUSE THEY ARE AFRAID IT IS AN ' INDIANS RIGHTS ' ISSUE AND THEY ALWAYS THINK THE INDIANS ARE RIGHT . THERE ARE PLENTY OF INDIANS THAT OPPOSE THIS BUT THEY ARE INTIMIDATED BY THE GREEDY INDIANS RUNNING THE TRIBE WHOWANT TO MAKE , BY THEIR OWN ESTIMATES , $500 , 000 a whale or $2 million a year plus the government subsidizing the whole operation including building them a new marina for exactly this whale slaughter . 7 . The Clinton / Gore administration will not be confused with tree huggers once the oceans fill with the blood of harpooned and gutted whales ! The Nuu-chah-nuth India tribe of Vancouver Island British Cloumba is already pressing Canada to kill whales now that the United States has abruptly become a whale killer nation , shocking Australia and our old whale protecting allies . As Makah fisheries manager Dave Sones told a Seattle Times colmnist in May of 1995 , " The tribe hopes , in the future , to do some commercial whaling . There are markets overseas for meat and oil . " Is this what Clinton meant in his State of the Union message when he said wanted to " expand rapid response teams to help all towns which have been hurt when businesses close " ? ? ? Whaling been closed for 70 years but here comes Clinton and Gore with federal money and subsidies to resume whale slaughtering ! Impeach the liar Whale Killer ! 052283 00001 johnsdad1b - 10 : 41pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52453 ) } 00002 * " There can be no high civility without a deep morality . " . . . . . Ralph Waldo Emerson > 00003 svcarlson - 10 : 35pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( #52275 of 52280 ) That proposal was origionally made by Barbara Boxer , , , , Did she switch parties ? 052284 00001 svcarlson - 10 : 42pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52288 ) } svcarlson - 10 : 42pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52453 ) > 00002 *Thanks for the additional information . I didn ' t see all of the story ( and couldn ' t find it in the WP archives . Sorry . ) The investigation being conducted by the Justice Department into Starr ' s misdeeds , I fear , will simply be an effort to cover them up . Don Kirk - } 00003 *I don ' t know if you saw my post last night about Geraldo . But I think he ' s got to give Abrahamson and the other reporter ( not yet household names ) credit for going to the source , the billing records . I watched the original Geraldo show on October 13 and could not give credibility to Lucianne Goldberg as a source . Indeed by calling Marcus a cover , she misled the American people . He was not just a cover for Porter , a channel into Starr ' s office ( his own law partner , what deception ) . He was the brains behind directing the project . For all those airheads who say " Why did he settle with Paula Jones ? " , here ' s a brilliant reason . They set the bait for these rats , Jerome Marcus , Paul Rosenzweig and Richard Porter . Ultimately Ken Starr . When this is done , the Justice Department investigation ( already underway ) must be stepped up . But BTW I still don ' t see the story at the Washington Post . 052285 00001 hugsy - 10 : 42pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52453 ) > 00002 svcarlson - 10 : 35pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST } 00003 *And what will the search of their souls turn up ? Having to be arm-twisted into fulfilling promise to reform welfare and balance the budget ? Women friendly workplaces ? Most ethical administrations in history ? 1000+ FBI files in the possession of someone that no one knows who hired ? Two year old subpoenaed documents in their private quarters ? Respect for language and telling the truth ? What is left of the soul of the democratic party ? 052286 00001 spinthis - 10 : 43pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52453 ) } 00002 *The longer Impeachment-Gate continues , the better for for the Dems . The more witnesses the GOP calls the better . Dashle knows that . The GOP has 13 seats up for election in 2000 in states which President William Jefferson Clinton carried in his landslide electoral victory in ' 96 . Clinton ' s strategy of triagulation has pushed the GOP so far to the right that Impeachment-Gate will guarantee Gore ' s victory , Dem control of Congress , and WJC ' s entry into the Supreme Court . So call Monica to the witness stand you brain dead Republicans . 052287 00001 funbarwebtv . ne - 10 : 43pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52453 ) } 00002 *For more information on the Liar Clinton , using William daley ' s Commerce department to set up the slaughter of whales worldwide , check seashepherd . org and get involved before the killers start this summer in Neah Bay Washington state . 052288 00001 thermopylae1 - 10 : 44pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52453 ) } 00002 * 00003 vcarlson 1 / 26 / 99 10 : 42pm< / a> 00004 Why did he rape Juanita Broderick ? 052289 00001 tna1pada3 - 10 : 46pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52453 ) } 00002 * " It ain ' t over til it ' s over " Puhleeze , Brer Bear ! Don ' t throw me in that briar patch ! Bwhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahaahahahhaahahahahaha hahahahahhahahahahaha hahahahahahah ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahathatai n ' tnobluebirdonyourshoulder , birdbrain ! 052290 00001 tna1pada3 - 10 : 47pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52453 ) } 00002 * " It ain ' t over til it ' s over " Any body seen Danny Williams ? 052291 00001 tna1pada3 - 10 : 47pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52453 ) } 00002 * " It ain ' t over til it ' s over " He looks just like Sam Donaldson ! +++ 052292 00001 johnsdad1b - 10 : 48pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52453 ) } 00002 * " There can be no high civility without a deep morality . " . . . . . Ralph Waldo Emerson It ' s time for the Democrats to search their souls and lead this nation The biggest problem with that is that they have no soul , and their leadership is worse off than the Republicans . In addition , they haven ' t a clue about foreign policy . 052293 00001 spinthis - 10 : 48pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52453 ) } 00002 *A TALE OF TWO CITIES " But I must say , despite massive and relentless efforts to change the subject , the case before you , Senators , is not about sexual misconduct , infidelity , adultery . Those are private acts and are none of our business . It ' s not even a question of lying about sex . The matter before this body is a question of lying under oath . This is a public act . The matter before you is a question of the willful , premeditated , deliberate corruption of the nation ' s system of justice through perjury and obstruction of justice . " --House Manager Henry Hyde - 1 / 16 / 99 " It is a sex scandal . H . L . Mencken one time said , ' When you hear somebody say , ' This is not about money , ' it ' s about money . ' And when you hear somebody say , ' This is not about sex ' it ' s about sex . ' " --Dale Bumpers - 1 / 21 / 99 052294 00001 carldenis - 10 : 49pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52453 ) > 00002 ikhays } 00003 *You are right ! Bill Clinton is being impeached for what he is : A criminal , a liar , a demagogue , a rogue and an antisocial misfit . 052295 00001 d-fendr - 10 : 49pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52453 ) } 00002 *ahhh , now we see , that most intelligent woman in America , Hillary Clinton , paid $375 , 000 , NOT to get her philandering husband out of a jam , again , NO , she was baiting a trap for the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy . Such a clever ploy , no doubt master-minded by Sid " he told me she was a stalker " Blumenthal . I hope she has a lot more bait money left , I hear Bill is dating again . 052296 00001 tna1pada3 - 10 : 49pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52453 ) } 00002 * " It ain ' t over til it ' s over " GHWB is begging the GOP not to go too deep into Chinagate . Bob Dole is restive too . Wonder what that ' s all about ! 052297 00001 donkirk - 10 : 49pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52453 ) } 00002 * " The President did not commit perjury . The President did not obstruct justice . He must not be removed from office . " 052298 00001 funbarwebtv . ne - 10 : 50pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52453 ) } 00002 *Afterthe lies of Clinton and gore I will never vote Democratic again . GREEN PARTY FOREVER ! 052299 00001 thermopylae1 - 10 : 51pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52453 ) } 00002 * 00003 pinthis 1 / 26 / 99 10 : 43pm< / a> 00004 Keep your advice to yourself . How many people do you think will tune in to hear how the President ministered to the 21 year old intern while his unit was enflagrante delecto ? Or better yet , how many will tune in to hear Sidney tell us how the President schemed to make the 21 year old intern into a nutcase ? Or how the 21 year old intern was swallowing the sword while Clinton was discussing sending our sons and daughters to a combat zone ? Or how the president was worried about being blackmailed by a foreign country yet continued to make unsecured phone calls to the intern ? We can only hope , huh ? 052300 00001 dmblum - 10 : 51pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52453 ) } 00002 *More evidence Republicans are so possessed by hatred that they ' re simply foolish : Can you much imagine Barr and McCollum and Hyde asking Monica probing details about " where the touching occured and when did the President begin it . " The very scene will inspire mass vommitting everywhere ! Impeachment ' 99 = Democratic White House and Congress 2000 Woo Hoo ! svcarlson - 10 : 51pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( §§052301 of 52453 ) In this case , Hugsy , the Republicans have blindly walked away from democracy . The Democrats must resuscitate ( sp ? ) it . They must maintain a balance , a centrist approach to rev up the economy by developing our most precious resource . Our people . To do this , Democrats must motivate people , nurture people and give them opportunity , the opportunity that comes from excellent leadership . From leadership in families , in schools , in workplaces and companies , in communities , in religious institutions , in political meetings and movements . They must reach out ( as the CCC warns Republicans NOT to do ) to invite and involve everybody in America , and must involve the world as a partner . And we must not we stopped by single-minded zealots who don ' t understand or respect democratic institutions in the first place . They now must follow , for they have forfeited their leadership . +++ 052302 00001 donkirk - 10 : 53pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52451 ) } 00002 * " The President did not commit perjury . The President did not obstruct justice . He must not be removed from office . " > 00003 tna1pada3 - 10 : 49pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( #52296 of 52299 ) } 00004 * " It ain ' t over til it ' s over " GHWB is begging the GOP not to go too deep into Chinagate . Bob Dole is restive too . Wonder what that ' s all about ! ______Which former Director of the CIA was Ambassador to the People ' s Republic of China and argued strongly for its status as MFN ? ? Think about it . 052303 00001 clsi1 - 10 : 53pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52451 ) } 00002 *Isn ' t this interesting . . . The Whitehouse now has the proper venue to get Starr and Tripp under oath to determine if eveeedence ( as Asa Hutchison says ) was gather improperly . And . . . they can not be accused of starting it or dragging it out . . . Gee , maybe the Presidents Counsel aint so dumd after all . . . They will get an " I told you so " again to show the House muppet characters are overzealous fanatics that whined to get witnesses . Remember , the House witnesses have never been cross examined by trial attorneys that frame questions meant to exonerate the President . The Republican Party get lot ' s more bad press , and Starr is finally going to be THE issue . . . legally . . . sounds like a legal version if the Schtiffel plan . . . let the opponent march right into your middle while you are doing a pincer movement around his flanks and the rear . . . and the White House tried to avoid ( ha ha ) it but they have to be able to defend themselves . . . 052304 00001 ccdiviv1 - 10 : 53pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52451 ) } 00002 * It seems that as sick as wjc was to do what he did , the republican congress is even sicker knowing that the process they are forcing will bring them down too . 052305 00001 arkie10 - 10 : 54pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52451 ) > 00002 thermopylae , } 00003 *Cuz he came from a poor , underprivileged , abused background and as such is a persecuted minority , and that excuses all ( apologies to the millions of poor , uderprivileged and abused and minorities who grow up decent people ) . 052306 00001 stonewall2c - 10 : 54pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52451 ) } 00002 *My , my , oh my , the Washinton Post is breaking bad news tomorow for Billy Boy . 00003 rian Williams told Schumer the idiot tonight that there is more bad news for Clinton that is breaking soon and it is going to get worse fast . 00004 uanita Broadrick ( Jane Doe # 5 ) is now terrified after giving her story to Lisa Meyers of ABC . 00005 he war room at the white House is threatning real war if ABC breaks the story . a very weird , snaky looking Cue ball was seen drunk as a lord in a DC bar and was rambling on about , this is wahr , wahr and we have been nuked . A Freeper told him to wahr this and kiss his ( _ ! _ ) . 00006 b> 00007 KABAR , GOD IS GREAT TO GIVE US THE LIKES OF KLINTOON AND HIS IDIOT KOOL AID DRINKERS FOR SPORT AND PLEASURE< / B> 052307 00001 dayrell1 - 10 : 55pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52451 ) > 00002 svcarlson - 10 : 35pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( #52275 } 00003 *Wrong my friend , it is you who have a leader who lied paternalistically wagging his finger ( one year ago today ) in our faces and saying " now I want you to listen . . . I ' m going to say this one more time . . . . I did not have sexual relations with that woman . . . Ms Lewinsky . " He did it with Hillary and Senator Diane Feinstein at his side . Give me a physical break ! Your chief is an unabashed liar . . . an impeached and about to be convicted unabashed L I A R . Or are you to tunnel visioned in your personality cult worship to see that ? The dismantling of the Republican Party is a figment of your very active imagination . The Republican Party is stronger than ever and reaching even further for the " moral high ground " in the fight for America ' s political future . Remember Marian Barry and Clinton - Jessie and Teddy and you will have invisioned the future Democart Party you so frantically hold up as legitimate and trustworthy . 052308 00001 ccdiviv1 - 10 : 55pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52451 ) } 00002 *It seems that as sick as wjc was to do what he did , the republican congress is even sicker knowing that the process they are forcing will bring them down too . 052309 00001 donkirk - 10 : 56pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52451 ) } 00002 * " The President did not commit perjury . The President did not obstruct justice . He must not be removed from office . " Good night , good people . Sleep safe and warm . Defend the Constitution . 052310 00001 d-fendr - 10 : 56pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52451 ) } 00002 *Whether you think Clinton ' s ' apology ' for " misleading " his wife , family , cabinet and nation was sincere or hollow and self-serving , watch his ' apology ' for the holocaust in Rwanda . PBS Frontline this week . Watch " Triumph of Evil " or view the material on it at www . pbs . org . I hope a few Clinton supporters will have the courage to learn about it . 052311 00001 hugsy - 10 : 56pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52451 ) > 00002 svcarlson - 10 : 51pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST } 00003 *Well , this might be an interesting discussion , but I think we will stale mate very soon . I see the democrats as walking away from the separations of powers and the rule of law . They have forfeigted the right to stand for anything by abandoning so many ' liberal ' issues in order to look the other way for their present POTUS , instead of doing the emminently better thing of replacing him with their own VP . If you ever find a party as you describe , let me know and I ' ll probably vote for them . But your description is not today ' s democratic party . Alas . +++ 052312 00001 thermopylae1 - 10 : 57pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52451 ) } 00002 *http : / / forums . nytimes . com / webin / WebX ? 224@^276950@13a625@ . efa32a7 You must be the 1 in 10 who doesn ' t think the President lied or obstructed justice . Careful on the horizon , its a steep drop . 052313 00001 dmblum - 10 : 58pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52451 ) } 00002 *Wasn ' t it laughable today , seeing folks like Gary Bauer and Dan Quayle speaking to that conservative group , promising to rescue the Republican party . Bauer has the just plain nutty glow in his eyes , and while Quayle speaks in that flat wittless voice , one has only one thought : the guy is as dumb as a bag of hammers . If these guys are gonna rescue the Republican party , I bet Dennis Rodmann could rescue the Clippers . 052314 00001 jlaing10 - 10 : 59pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52451 ) } 00002 * 00003 tonewall2c 1 / 26 / 99 10 : 54pm< / a> 00004 It ' s good this ain ' t about sex . Somebody might think a culture war is going on . 052315 00001 clsi1 - 10 : 59pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52451 ) } 00002 *The only people that ignore the Constitution are the Republicans . . . Article III , section 1 - Judges serve during good behavior Article II , Section 1 - The President serves four year terms - specifically NOT during a good behavior standard . Gee why are Judges held to a much different standard than the elected President ? ? ? ? Duh . . . . 052316 00001 smparker1 . 2 - 11 : 00pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52451 ) > 00002 > 00003 cdiviv1 - 10 : 55pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( #52308 of 52308 ) } 00004 *> 00005 t seems that as sick as wjc was to do what he did , the republican congress is even sicker knowing that the process they are forcing will bring them down too . " Great parties stand for great principles . " Mark Helperin . 052317 00001 jlaing10 - 11 : 00pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52451 ) } 00002 *Gimme back my HTML ! 052318 00001 arkie10 - 11 : 00pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52451 ) } 00002 *Prez Bill was telling the truth when he wagged his finger at us . Only it was a coded message . He wasn ' t saying " I didn ' t have sexual relations with that woman -- Ms . Lewinsky . " He was saying , " I didn ' t have sexual relations with that woman , Ms . Lewinsky . " He was talking to Ms . Lewinsky , and the " that woman " he was referring to was Hillary . No flies on him ! 052319 00001 nefec - 11 : 00pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52451 ) } 00002 *If you were included in the Senate , what question would you ask to render a verdict ? 052320 00001 supkis - 11 : 00pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52451 ) } 00002 *The worst thing about most of the " I hate the President " posters here is they are mostly humorless and boring . This is why we funnier people leave periodically . It is very depressing here . I wonder who you all are arguing with ? How out of step with reality , but then that is the new definition of the GOP ! By the way , I got a letter published upstate that tears apart the editor of the NYT editorial page , Raines ! I just submitted something humorous to New York magazine mocking him again . He is crazy , man . His editorials make no sense . Wierd . 052321 00001 thermopylae1 - 11 : 00pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52451 ) } 00002 * 00003 lsi1 1 / 26 / 99 10 : 53pm< / a> 00004 The last lawyer to cross examine Starr was Abbe Lowell . He has since been relegated to the sh*theap of lawyer dung by the oh so empathetic White House . Next> 00005 +++ 052322 00001 jlaing10 - 11 : 02pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52448 ) } 00002 *< ! - 00003 a href= " / webin / WebX ? 14@^276934@ . efa32a7 / 54201 " > 00004 laing10 1 / 26 / 99 11 : 00pm< / a> 00005 p> 00006 I agree< / HTML> 052323 00001 jlaing10 - 11 : 02pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52448 ) } 00002 *I want my HTML ! 052324 00001 hugsy - 11 : 03pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52448 ) > 00002 dmblum - 10 : 58pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST } 00003 *I don ' t know about the Clippers , but Dennis Rodman probably would be more effective than Quayle in trying to win the WH for the republicans in 2000 . 052325 00001 tna1pada3 - 11 : 04pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52448 ) } 00002 * " It ain ' t over til it ' s over " > 00003 jlaing10 } 00004 *E-mail sysop . 052326 00001 hugsy - 11 : 05pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52448 ) > 00002 jg , } 00003 *yeah , must cramp you link-style . You could just post the URL . 052327 00001 dmblum - 11 : 05pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52448 ) > 00002 Hugsy : } 00003 *Yeah , Rodman could be both the Prez and the 1st lady , saving on travel expenses . And he can spell to a 4th grade level ! 052328 00001 d-fendr - 11 : 05pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52448 ) } 00002 *January 25 , 1999 ZOGBY AMERICA POLL The poll of 993 likely voters throughout the United States was conducted January 19-21 , 1999 . The poll has a margin of sampling error of + / - 3 . 2% . Are you proud or ashamed that Bill Clinton is President ? Proud 40 . 1 Ashamed 42 . 2 Not sure 17 . 7 Who do you blame most for this case - the President or the Republicans in Congress ? President 44 . 5 Republicans 30 . 7 Both 18 . 4 Neither 4 . 3 Not sure 2 . 2 Because of the Clinton-Lewinsky case , do you plan to change your party registration ? Yes 3 . 0 No 95 . 8 Not sure 1 . 2 If yes , what party will you be switching to ? Democrat 50 . 0 Republican 27 . 0 Independent 10 . 9 Not sure 12 . 1 This poll was taken to include the SOTU charming-Billy-bounce . Even with the bounce , the evidence for some major party switch , or republican loss is non-existent . 052329 00001 hugsy - 11 : 06pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52448 ) } 00002 * 00003 mblum 1 / 26 / 99 11 : 05pm< / a> 00004 . . . prez and first lady , save on travel . . . . LOL ! good one . ( thanks for the chuckle ) 052330 00001 spennin - 11 : 08pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52448 ) } 00002 *Gee , why don ' t we get down to the truth . Clinton lied under oath ; that is perjury . He attempted to influence people to give false testimony ; that is witness tampering and obstruction of justice . The Democrats and the occupants of the White House are afraid of witnesses . Remember , these people are friends and intimates of the President - what is to fear if he is innocent as he claims ? Let the Constitution be followed and the trial run it ' s course . We are a strong nation and will survive whatever the outcome . The Republicans have put a lot at risk in this trial . It is not popular , but having principles is not about doing what is always popular . 052331 00001 major-tom - 11 : 08pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52448 ) > 00002 Starjumper } 00003 *Take your HTML and shove it up your 00003 f you visit read also the " open letter to Sen . Lott " on the issue of calling witnesses and / or follow the " cartoons " link to the always provocative " thinking man " cartoon series . Thank you . 052341 00001 helaman2 - 11 : 17pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52448 ) } 00002 *No , I don ' t suppose Republicans would find much to laugh about re Clinton and his scandals . +++ 052342 00001 dayrell1 - 11 : 18pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52448 ) > 00002 supkis - 11 : 00pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( #52320 } 00003 *The reason for your depression and lassitude here in the most lively and spirited Forum in the world is because you , in your narrow view of reality blame all your ( and everyone else ' s ) troubles on the Republicans and their Party . Morose cynicism is the decease that affects all the Clintonistas I ' m afraid . And , that is purely a result of the nature of their leadership ( cynical , morose , dishonest and dishonorable ) . With that pedigree of virtue to hold on to . . . it really is no surprise to me why you ' re " under the covers from it all " most of the time . 052343 00001 dbowman6 - 11 : 19pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52448 ) } 00002 *Good evening , nefec : Good question . However , I prefer to ask ( if dreams are possible ? ) the following question , " Mr . Hamilton , what did you have in mind when you employed the words , ' High crimes . . . etc ? " The good news seems to be that this chapter in our nation ' s history is drawing to a conclusion . While Clinton is not a Nixon , he is certainly not a Washington--so much for the proof of evolution . 052344 00001 flashmonster - 11 : 20pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52448 ) } 00002 *FIRST OFF . . . . READ THE WARNING ATOP c c c . IT SAYS People who engage in personal attacks on other forum participants , at any level or in any form , risk removal of their forums privileges . This policy applies to all who engage in personal attacks , whether or not they initiated them . SO YOU fVE GOT TO BE ABLE TO READ TO PLAY THE GAME FAIRLY . Next , and I mean this most earnestly , you have to know how to spell . If you find these first two problematic or inconsistent , wipe the gruel off your bib , and chill for a while . Ask yourself gwhat am I doing here h ? is that my beautiful wife ? . . I fve just spent a considerable amount of my precious time reading the last three hundred profoundly insightful ravings in this chain . I fve fed them all into my gBig Red g computer , and have managed to distill some truths . Ergo the important players ( as they fve been invoked by you , our leave no stone unturned citizenry ) , or points of reference in this absurd peckerdillo , are , and not in order of relevance c c . . Dr . Jack . ( I assume this is not Bill Walton fs coach ) c c c c . B . F . Skinner ( I think he wrote gFree Bird h ) c cthe monkey chased the weasel ( I won ft go there c c c . . ) Ozzie & Harriet ( I fm sure if they were demos , their son would not have been involved in controlled substances ) c c c c cPlutarch ( Omitting the oracle of Apollo at Delphi , seems somewhat sacrilegious ) c c c c . . Noah gtell it like it is h Chomsky c c c c c . . The Pope c c c . MJ ( gItsssss Good h ) c c cAl Capone ( I think he played for Chicago too ) c c Alger Hiss c c c . Shakespeare c c . GOD ( Which one is your call ) c c c . Dirty lawyers c c cBirkenstocks c c c . . Nixon ( Now more than ever ! ) c c c The worst drivers in the country c . Disraeli ( He invented the ggears h c c c c . Cigars c . . Those who suck or swallow c c c c c And almost lastly , those gfreaky inconsistent voters h that are thrusting my main man , Overlord 21 into a nearlife experience c . He gets the gPut down the thick crayon , you fre about to hurt yourself g award this evening . Now in closing I want this to be a kinder and gentler forum . c c . . Even if all of us have to go out and meet people , and act civil . Good luck America ! ! ! 052345 00001 devereaux3 - 11 : 21pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52448 ) } 00002 *Save America and the Constitution . Convict and remove Clinton now . Too bad for Hillary that Web ' s indictment has been reinstated . As a one time loser , what is he looking at for tax evasion conviction ( s ) . How do you think the Clinton ' s will arrange for Web to die in custody ( ala ' Jim McDougal . Dying alone , in solitary confinement , without his medicine ) . 052346 00001 tna1pada3 - 11 : 24pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52448 ) } 00002 * " It ain ' t over til it ' s over " This ain ' t no disco This ain ' t no party This ain ' t no fooling around ! 052347 00001 hugsy - 11 : 26pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52448 ) In today ' s world , the cardinal said , the devil ' s force comes through widespread acceptance of ``lies and deceit . . . the idolatry of money . . . the idolatry of sex . ' ' 052348 00001 jlaing10 - 11 : 27pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52448 ) > 00002 major-tom - 11 : 14pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( #52339 of 52346 ) } 00003 *You need BTML for that 052349 00001 dayrell1 - 11 : 31pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52448 ) > 00002 tna1pada3 - 11 : 24pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( #52346 } 00003 *Yeah right ! Like your sycophant intercessor for debauchery the " gargoyle married to a Republican " says . . . " this is wahr , wahr . . . I tell ya ' . . . wahr . " 052350 00001 hugsy - 11 : 32pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52448 ) } 00002 * " I did not have sexual relations with that woman , Ms . Lewinski . " 052351 00001 hugsy - 11 : 32pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52448 ) } 00002 * " everybody does it " +++ 052352 00001 hugsy - 11 : 33pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52447 ) } 00002 * " This is all about sex , sex , sex " 052353 00001 jlaing10 - 11 : 33pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52447 ) } 00002 *too slow and no HTML , I ' m going to have to find another place to procrastinate . Later all 052354 00001 mmpeel - 11 : 34pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52447 ) } 00002 *www . geocities . com / Athens / Thebes / 4809 / chart1 . html www . pfaw . org www . rain . org / %7eopenmind / stopcoup . html www . moveon . org > 00003 d-fendr - 10 : 49pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( #52295 of 52345 ) that most intelligent woman in America , Hillary Clinton , paid $375 , 000 . . . she was baiting a trap for the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy . m : It does seem to have had that effect . : - ) The NYT " Quietly " article leads with her VWRC quote , then starts naming names that show up in the fine print in the legal bills , as PJ ' s backers try to divvy the settlement . Somehow , I suspect the Vast Clinton Coverup Conspiracy can afford it . : - ) 052355 00001 hugsy - 11 : 34pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52447 ) } 00002 * " I will never be out-spent in an election again " 052356 00001 tna1pada3 - 11 : 35pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52447 ) } 00002 * " It ain ' t over til it ' s over " > 00003 dayrell1 - 11 : 31pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( #52349of 52349 ) } 00004 *How ' s your brother daryll ? And your other brother daryll ? Cool your overheated rhetoric , bubba , you ' ll blow a fuse . 052357 00001 dbowman6 - 11 : 37pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52447 ) } 00002 *Good night , sweet princes ; may legions of newscasters sing thee to thy rest . Thanks for the evening ' s interaction . 052358 00001 nefec - 11 : 39pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52447 ) } 00002 *I ' ve never kept up with the trial but I would like to know , if you were in the Senate , what question would you ask to render a vedict ? 052359 00001 hugsy - 11 : 39pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52447 ) } 00002 *In today ' s world , the cardinal said , the devil ' s force comes through widespread acceptance of ``lies and deceit . . . the idolatry of money . . . the idolatry of sex . ' ' 052360 00001 ether14 - 11 : 39pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52447 ) } 00002 *Hey , I think that it ' s sacrilegious to refer to Billy Jeff Buttafuoco ' s seance with the Pope today as his " Rope a Pope " strategy . Those pundits are gonna burn in Hell - well , Arkansas , anyway , no ? Remember that it was during the Pope ' s visit to Cuba that the entire sorry Billy Jeff Buttafuoco Adulterer in Chief and love of Monica ' s life " relationship " was revealed . Now the Pope comes to town again and NBC is getting ready to go public with an interview with Jane Doe #5 Chiquita Juanita . Juanita says she ' s afraid for her life she ' s one smart cookie , no ? What do you think was going through the Pope ' s mind as he shook the hand of Billy Jeff Buttafuoco and looked at the abortionist First Lady ? Hint : " I hope they wash their hands frequently . " 052361 00001 carldenis - 11 : 41pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52447 ) > 00002 China : } 00003 *you are not there yet . And yet I await the rise of the morning star . Supkis is gone or so it seems . Where are you , o champion of the rightly accused ? I mourn your candor , your naivete , your " innocence " . Please , come enliven this forum . give us a bone to bury . Please , china don ' t make us wait any more ! The other staffers are gone . we miss their prose and should I say their " obduratedeness " . Come shine , morning star , so we can rejoice in your presence and have something to feed onto ! +++ 052362 00001 dayrell1 - 11 : 41pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52447 ) > 00002 tna1pada3 - 11 : 35pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( §§052356 } 00003 *One ' s a Judge ( Superior ) and the other is a world class painter of renown and fame living in Paris . And how are your brothers ? ( And sisters ) . 052363 00001 rosimki - 11 : 41pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52447 ) } 00002 *After reviewing the thread of messages over the last few weeks , it would seem they are overwhelmingly anti-Clinton which flys in the face of these so-called will of the people polls . Kind of makes you go hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm ? ? ! ! ! Or is it that New York Times readers tend to be brighter . . . 052364 00001 nela21 - 11 : 42pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52447 ) > 00002 Yellmonger } 00003 *All that this world can be is staying alive . If the President did so does ' nt it set an example ? How many in this big bad world can set their sights to even say that they set an example . If he ' s accepting that he did " it " . So can anyone be able make a comment on such a " high " crime and misdemenor . Not for me . Correct-to-be-odd 052365 00001 ether14 - 11 : 43pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52447 ) > 00002 rosimki} 00003 *NY Times forumers are brighter ? You ain ' t taken a real close look at adaplant , eh ? of the Clinton administration ( Chinese money is preferred ) 00003 ngelbo 1 / 27 / 99 1 : 09am< / a> 00004 Doesn ' t sound as if you need any help , just reassurance . They don ' t want any witnesses because they don ' t want any more turth to come out . The House did not need witnesses to indict , but witnesses are par for the course at the trial . It won ' t take very long because the WH will not call any witnesses . They have had myriad opportunities to call them . spurning all . 052410 00001 spennin - 01 : 14am Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 52441 ) } 00002 *What is it so difficult for the Democrats to admit that their party leader is guilty of crimes against the state ? His removal would put another Democrat in the White House . Do they think that Al Gore is incompetent ? dangerous ? What is their problem ? 052411 00001 jakbert - 01 : 15am Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 52441 ) } 00002 *Since when can the White House defense offer to have the president answer written questions , then say the defense team will answer and then refuse to answer any questions ? Misleading , aren ' t they ? +++ 052412 00001 clsi1 - 01 : 15am Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 52433 ) } 00002 *excuse me - Judges Art . III , sec 1 052413 00001 hugsy - 01 : 15am Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 52433 ) > 00002 clsi1 - 01 : 13am Jan 27 , 1999 EST } 00003 *ABCDEFGH or I ? 052414 00001 angelbo - 01 : 17am Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 52433 ) } 00002 *They do have the votes to avoid conviction by 2 / 3 . But they don ' t have the votes for a majority vote for conviction . And that would please me more than a dismissal of the charges . Let the public know that his party refused to condem him even though the evidence was overwhelming . 052415 00001 tatufr1 - 01 : 17am Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 52433 ) > 00002 Dfender , } 00003 *you know the funny thing is about the Clintonista spinners who keep saying the lies " are just about sex " . . . is that Billy Jeff said it wasn ' t sex . They ' d better get their story straight , eh ? Before Monica gets to the Senate and calmly reiterates her testimony , and also elucidates upon the today-disclosed 54-minute phone call from Clinton to her Watergate Hotel apt . when he was setting up the Big Lie / Obstruction of Justice . 052416 00001 r4rw3r4 - 01 : 18am Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 52433 ) } 00002 * 00003 akbert 1 / 27 / 99 1 : 15am< / a> 00004 Not quite factually correct . 052417 00001 hugsy - 01 : 18am Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 52422 } hugsy - 01 : 18am Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 52433 ) } 00002 *Isn ' t it obvious ? J All of the above ( and a few more - e . g . , he only has two years left in office ) *OPEN Q : If this alleged rape / assault of ' jane Doe #5 ' comes to light , will the BC defenders say : A ) . . . all right that is enough , it ' s time for Gore . B ) . . . everybody does it . C ) . . . that ' s a personal matter , between BC and Hiliary . D ) . . . you have to look at the whole man . . . . . E ) . . . to bring that up is unfair , we must have fairness ! F ) . . . a 20 year old assault and rape does not rise to an impeach / removable offense . G ) . . . Jane Doe #5 is a lying slut . H ) . . . boy do I hate Ken Starr ! I ) . . . ______( other ) 052418 00001 jtmlx - 01 : 19am Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 52433 ) } 00002 *THE REPUBLICANS IN CONGRESS JUST DON ' T CARE . 052419 00001 clsi1 - 01 : 19am Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 52433 ) } 00002 *I just thought that since everyone seems to be talking about " The Constitution " as though they were experts it might be nice to read it and find out what it says . One does not seem to be able to trust the 13 stooges to acurately communicate what it says . . . 052420 00001 jakbert - 01 : 19am Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 52433 ) > 00002 r4 : } 00003 *Please explain . 052421 00001 tatufr1 - 01 : 20am Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 52433 ) > 00002 Clsil . } 00003 *dream on , about no crimes committed . . . . . sounds like you ' re ready to drink the Clinton Kool-aid . . . +++ 052422 00001 collioure1 - 01 : 20am Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 52431 ) } 00002 *Truth and honesty are not the currency of the Clinton administration ( Chinese money is preferred ) > 00003 clsi1 - 01 : 13am Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( #52408 of 52417 ) } 00004 *I see you know a lot about obstruction . to work , watch next weeks republican Senate " show " trial . Settle on a verdict and then hold a trial . republicans are the real Bolsheviks . The Soviet Union was also a place where a tiny minority ran the country . Kinda how the religious right runs this country . Bolsheviks never considered the rights or opinions of any non-Bolsheviks . Kinda like today ' s republican Congress . They don ' t represent their electorate , they don ' t even represent the common every-day variety republican , they only represent the so-called " religious " right . Bolsheviks were arrogant , the republicans are arrogant . Bolsheviks were callous , republicans are callous . Bolsheviks were communist zealots , republicans are Christian zealots . Henry Hyde and his ilk have more in common with the Stalin than any Democrat . I ' ll leave you with this last thing : Jon Stewart , the new host of Comedy Central ' s Daily Show , was interviewed on Nightline . The premise of the piece was to get opinions on the impeachment proceedings from people other than the usual talking heads . At the end of the piece , Jon was asked if he had any other observation he ' d like to share . Jon said , " The makeup of the House Judiciary Committee was interesting . The Democrats looked like America--whites , blacks , men , women , they even had a fat guy and a gay guy . The republicans looked like every men that ever fired my father . " 054017 00001 jlaing11 - 10 : 50pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 54141 ) } 00002 *Hi-by all . Don ' t have the energy for this . 054018 00001 _spammy_ - 10 : 52pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 54141 ) > 00002 comcargru } 00003 *And remember folks . . . More people died by Ted Kennedy ' s car than by my handgun . . . . at last count . 054019 00001 hugsy - 10 : 52pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 54141 ) > 00002 jg , } 00003 *it ' s lost a lot of its lustor , hasn ' t it . 054020 00001 clsi1 - 10 : 52pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 54141 ) } 00002 *The felons I know that regularly were in the White House are : Casper Wienberger - Pardoned by a republican Oliver North - A Republican Richard Nixon - Pardoned by a Republican Admiral Pondexter - A republican John Dean - A Republican John Erhlichman - A republican G Gordan Liddy - A republican Gosh my hand are tired from typing republican . . . I got to quit for now . Hey , arn ' t two of these talk show radio hosts very popular with Republicans . . what is it with Republicans and felons . . 054021 00001 comcargru - 10 : 54pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 54141 ) } 00002 *Let ' s put it this way , jlaing11 : Let ' s look at the hypocrites in the Democratic Party : Ted Kennedy is pro-gun control -but sought clemency for his armed gaurds that broke federal law when they entered the Capitol with sub-machine guns . Chuck Schumer is pro-gun control -- but never travels without an armed security detail . Diane Fienstien is pro-gun control -- but has a concealed weapons permit and travels with an armed detail . Bill Clinton is pro gun control -- EXCEPT when it comes to allowing CHINESE semi-auto rifle imports into the U . S . HYPOCRITES HYPOCRITES HYPOCRITES HYPOCRITES HYPOCRITES 054022 00001 comcargru - 10 : 56pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 54141 ) > 00002 To : clsi1 - 10 : 52pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( #54020 of 54021 ) } 00003 *-- blah , blah blah . . . Let ' s hand it to people like you and the DEMOCRATICALLY CONTROLLED HOUSE AND SENATE of the 1980s that ALLOWED Cuban and Russian forces to enter Central America to " train " the Nicaraguan forces . 054023 00001 Vegetius - 10 : 56pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 54141 ) } 00002 * " I AM THE APOSTLE OF HOPE " -----St . Billy Jeff FLYNTOON > 00003 bgshafer - 10 : 50pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( #54016 of 54017 ) } 00004 *Conservatives make up a much higher % of users on the internet then they do in the population , thank God ! Come to Boston I ' ll show you some Arrogant democrats who are also Bolsheviks . What is the difference ? +++ 054024 00001 comcargru - 10 : 56pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 54141 ) > 00002 To : clsi1 - 10 : 52pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( §§054020 of 54021 ) --} 00003 * blah , blah blah . . . Let ' s hand it to people like you and the DEMOCRATICALLY CONTROLLED HOUSE AND SENATE of the 1980s that ALLOWED Cuban and Russian forces to enter Central America to " train " the Nicaraguan forces . 054025 00001 clsi1 - 10 : 56pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 54141 ) } 00002 *Gun control means keeping guns out of the hands of extremists and felons , you know Republicans . It OK for responsible people to have them . 054026 00001 clsi1 - 10 : 59pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 54035 ) } clsi1 - 10 : 59pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 54141 ) } 00002 *Oh---I understand it ' s OK to break the Law and have private little wars or try to fix elections with burglars and illegal hush money . . . if you are a Republican . But don ' t lie about having a affair . . boy that ' s dangerous . Private WARS ? Are you refering to Bill and Janet ' s Great Waco Conquest ? Hmmm , When was that Delared a war ? And What ever happened to those Automatic Weapons Janet the Shakey said they had ? NONE EVER SHOWED UP AT TRIAL ! Breaking the LAW ? And Tell me , Did you shead any tears when the FEDS shot Vickie Weaver ( unarmed ) while caring a baby ? Don ' t give me your RESPONSIBLE FED . GOVERNMENT SH ! T . Talk about a set up , the feds . spend Hundreds of thousands to buy property next to Randy Weavers place , they spied on him , Assuming he did something wrong , when they could find NO wrong doing , THEY-THE FEDS . talked him into sawing of a Shotgun that they THEN ARRESTED HIM FOR . They then changed his court date without telling him . That is What started the standoff . And I bet you felt real safe when the FEDS SMeared Richard Jewell . Remember him , Yea the Patsy of Olympic Park Fame . There is YOUR RESPONSABLE GUN OWNERS ! No thanks , I prefer mine right where they are ! *Oh---I understand it ' s OK to break the Law and have private little wars or try to fix elections with burglars and illegal hush money . . . if you are a Republican . But don ' t lie about having a affair . . boy that ' s dangerous . 054027 00001 magnificent77d - 11 : 00pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 54141 ) > 00002 bgschafer } 00003 * Any two bit historian worth his salt would tell you of the necessity to demonize the Religeous right as the cornerstone of the Bolshivek " divide and conquer " strategy . A very telling quote of your comprehension level . . " Bolsheviks were communist zealots , republicans are Christian zealots " Wrong . Dead wrong . Like 60 million dead wrong 054028 00001 Vegetius - 11 : 01pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 54141 ) } 00002 * " I AM THE APOSTLE OF HOPE " -----St . Billy Jeff FLYNTOON THE REVIEW LIST Things that have happened to women who thought they were just having consensual sex with Bill Clinton Death threats A state police captain assigned to make sure you don ' t talk to reporters Being induced or coerced into signing false affidavits Coming back from testifying in a civil trial and finding an animal skull on your front porch Having nails put into your tires and your cat stolen Being trashed on national TV by the White House and media Finding your car window smashed a bullet on the front seat Having your apartment ransacked Getting anonymous harassing phone calls . Having your mother and children threatened Being the target of private investigators paid large sums to dig up dirt on you and coerce you into silence . 054029 00001 nela21 - 11 : 01pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 54141 ) } 00002 *poetterrier Hi by sigh to make the world cry is tears of a crocodile that are there for me to see on the demise of Presidency or is it shame that ' s reeking in the form of tears for not finding anyone but Big Boss as a wicked witch . By ratedcomic Dem ( eanin ) to the clan Crat 054030 00001 clsi1 - 11 : 03pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 54141 ) } 00002 *Wow . . . . . These posts are getting a little too wierd for even me . . . 054031 00001 vrwcarea51g - 11 : 03pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 54141 ) 054032 00001 _spammy_ - 11 : 04pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 54141 ) > 00002 bgschafer , } 00003 *interesting post . 054033 00001 tna1pada3 - 11 : 04pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 54141 ) " It ain ' t over til it ' s over " > 00002 vspelman 08 : 47pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( #53875 of 54021 ) } 00003 *If you are a " liberal dem " as you say you are , you surely noticed prior to the waxing of Monica ' s media moon ' s lunar epoch some 371 days ago Bill Clinton was not a standard bearer for your political philosophy ? +++ 054034 00001 comcargru - 11 : 05pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 54140 ) > 00002 To : clsi1 - 10 : 56pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( §§054025 of 54025 ) : } 00003 *Don ' t make me laugh . Go tell the families of the 40 dead Vietnam veterans from Arkansas that you support Clinton and gun control . You ' d probably end up where Jim MacDougal is right now . 054035 00001 sportly - 11 : 06pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 54140 ) > 00002 clsi1 - 10 : 56pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( #54025 of 54027 ) } 00003 *Gun control means keeping guns out of the hands of extremists and felons , you know Republicans . It OK for responsible people to have them . Oh---I understand it ' s OK to break the Law and have private little wars or try to fix elections with burglars and illegal hush money . . . if you are a Republican . But don ' t lie about having a affair . . boy that ' s dangerous . ------Clsi1 , excellent points that bear repeating . Thanks . Goodnight all . 054036 00001 johnsdad1b - 11 : 08pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 54140 ) } 00002 * " There can be no high civility without a deep morality . " . . . . . Ralph Waldo Emerson > 00003 ackwood must have been pissed looking across at those gin blossoms exploding across his that monstrous squash of his--- " This guy is judging me ? Can you imagine being Thomas or Anita Hill , looking at Joe Biden who quit his run for the presidency because of his own plagiarism , on his left was Tedddy the Killer Kennedy , also kicked out of Harvard for cheating , womanizer and verbal abuser of his wife . . . . and on the right , the Senator Strom Thurmond . . . . now Republican before Democrat and 1948 candidate on the States Rights ticket for President actually a segregationist party . . . . . 3 of a kind ! 054037 00001 jim30b - 11 : 08pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 54140 ) > 00002 to : dayrell1 : re 51015 : } 00003 *Lost the vote today ? ? ? Correct me if I ' m wrong , but it would take 67 votes to convict and remove Clinton . Today ' s vote proves conclucivly that 44+ senators think that the case is a bogus partisan power grab that warrants no further discussion . Whitness testimony won ' t change that a bit . Unless you think that anyone , but a few self deluding partisans , give a damn what Clinton did with a more than willing little wench . 054038 00001 dayrell1 - 11 : 10pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 54140 ) > 00002 vrwcarea51g - 11 : 03pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( #54031 } 00003 *You forgot to add the infamous and hatefully misinformation spewing torquemada2 - he is none other than the despicable " fifteen year old " A D A P L A N T in putrid disguise once again , in my opinion . 054039 00001 smparker1 . 2 - 11 : 11pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 54140 ) } 00002 *Bolsheviks believe . . . " Party Above Principle " ---always . " Deny , deny , deny " ---when confronted by the truth . Bill Clinton " never lied , never obstructed " . Absolute conformity to the Party line . Democrats have become America ' s Bolsheviks . 054040 00001 hugsy - 11 : 12pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 54140 ) } 00002 *So the vote for having witnesses had bi-partisan support , and the vote against having witnesses was 100% partisan . 44+ senators are bogus partisans 054045 00001 mikerose2 - 11 : 13pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 54140 ) } 00002 *I agree with you that there is a natural arostocracy among men . The grounds for this are virtue and talents . Formerly bodily powers gave place among the aristoi . But since the invention of gunpowder has armed the weak as well as the strong with missle death , bodily strength , like beauty , good humor , politeness and other accomplishments , has become but an auxiliary ground of distinction and accomplishment . - T . Jefferson , Oct 28 , 1813 00003 ubbie " Logic " -- the adventures of the Starship Enterprise . . . . < / b> 00004 > 00005 00009 bmiller 00010 oesn ' t wash . The Senators may or may not vote to have witnesses . But when the witnesses are necessary to clear up discrepancies , they would be derelict in the oath they have taken to be fair and impartial if they vote NOT to have witnesses . They would only NOT have to call witnesses if there were no serious discrepancies in the testimony . 00011 ll of the Republicans saw discrepancies and voted for witnesses to clear the matter up . All of the Democrats ( but one ) saw discrepancies and voted to cover the matter up . 00012 ELL ? < / tt> 00013 / ol> 00014 } 00015 *Uh , bubba , there seem to be two aspects : 054059 00001 rikus4 - 11 : 21pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 54138 ) } 00002 * [[[[[####****<> 00003 > 00004 You show me a open minded Liberal and I will show you one that is dead . There is no such thing as a open minded Liberal that is alive . They are all conceded if you don ' t believe me take a good look at the white house and the DemocRATS congress . You can disgree with one of them and they will cuss you out . Real sinceable people aren ' t they . SLICK WILLY and MuchoHillery think they know it all . If they were so smart they would not be in troulbe all of the time . They are pretty stupid if you ask me . They ( LIBERALS ) do not base thier concluses on any subsistence . Just look at Clinton lawyer in thier presentation when they were trying to defend the president . It was without any subsistence . Just blaming some one else for Clinton troubles . Your LIberals don ' t know what is is . You LIBERALS don ' t know what SEX is . Pretty dumb if you ask me . The LIBERALS was so stupid in SODOM that they got it destroy . Real jimdaney when you haven ' t got enough sense to keep from destroy your own country . That is what you liberals are doing to our AMERICA destroying it and you don ' t have enough sense to know it . I am telling you the truth but you won ' t like it . The LIBERALS didn ' t like it when NOAH told them that it was coming a flood they didn ' t believe him eather . May GOD help us all . +++ 054060 00001 _spammy_ - 11 : 21pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 54138 ) > 00002 comcargru - 11 : 18pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( #54052 of 54054 ) } 00003 *You wouldn ' t last five minutes in boot camp spammy . . . let alone in Israel . . . . and your point is ? Is Denmark ok ? 054061 00001 asylum32 - 11 : 23pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 54138 ) } 00002 * " It ' s a consequence , first and foremost , of the president ' s appalling behavior . And you can ' t get around it and you can ' t explain it . " ----Mike McCurry > 00003 smparker : } 00004 *As a matter of fact the Dem caucus is already discussing a resolution condemning Feingold for not dancing to the White House ' s tune like the other tin soldiers . No partisanship here . Um huh . No way . 054062 00001 spennin - 11 : 24pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 54138 ) } 00002 *To all the facist Democrats out there , The truth and facts are difficult things to ignore . Your party , true to the form of Joseph Goebels , continues to tell big lies and tells them often . Your party seeks to rob the American people of their rights of life , liberty and the pursuit of happiness by imposing its values and programs on evrybody . If I wanted to support a bunch of people on welfare or pay for midnight basketball , I would dig the money out of my own pocket . I don ' t need the government with its hand in my pocket all the time . I believe the Constitution allowed the government to coin money , promote commerce and provide for the common defense . Nowhere in there does it mention feeding the homeless , paying welfare to pregnant teens , funding abortions or rewarding those who choose to be slackers . These are all things that citizens should take the initiative to do for themselves . If anybody wants any of the above , all I ask is that they pay for it by themselves . The quicker people realize that Clinton and his ilk have the " Invisible Hand " stuffed deep into their pockets , the quicker they will rid us of him . He plays fast and loose with the truth and he treats are hard earned dollars with the same disregard . BTW , I am an independent with Libertarian leanings . I think that the entire system has been corrupted by a new class of royalty - the political elites . 054063 00001 jim30b - 11 : 25pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 54138 ) > 00002 to : vegitus : } 00003 *Or , conversly , it means that 55 senators are partisans , the result will be the same . To dayrell1 : Bolsheviks ? ? OHHHHHHHH I thought MC Carthy was dead . try something new for a change , Like THINKING . 054064 00001 Vegetius - 11 : 26pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 54138 ) } 00002 * " I AM THE APOSTLE OF HOPE " -----St . Billy Jeff FLYNTOON > 00003 asylum32 - 11 : 23pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( #54061 of 54061 ) } 00004 * " It ' s a consequence , first and foremost , of the president ' s appalling behavior . And you can ' t get around it and you can ' t explain it . " ----Mike McCurry } 00005 *smparker : As a matter of fact the Dem caucus is already discussing a resolution condemning Feingold for not dancing to the White House ' s tune like the other tin soldiers . } 00006 *No partisanship here . Um huh . No way I also heard that the Big House was all over him . Mr . President Don ' t tamper with this jury " What a crock of SH ! t from that theif Robert Byrd . 054065 00001 bgshafer - 11 : 27pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 54138 ) } 00002 *Conservatives make up a much higher % of users on the internet then they do in the population , thank God ! Night all , Last parting shot : Comcargru , you ' re a small man , I don ' t mean little in size , I mean in character . ( I know . I know . I ' m doing the same thing to him that I criticized him for , but when I lie down with the dogs , I expect to get fleas . ) Just because you couldn ' t get a date in high school is no reason to take it out on us . Wait a minute , I ' m on to something here . Did you think the amount of dates ones has in high school has a correlation to membership in the republican party ? Interesting : ) 054066 00001 smparker1 . 2 - 11 : 27pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 54138 ) > 00002 asylum32 . . . } 00003 *Is that true ? I hadn ' t heard . If so it ' s more proof that Democrats are the New Bolsheviks . No dissent and no recognition of the truth allowed ! That ' s Rule #1 . Poor Russ will pay for having a conscience . The Dem / Bols have to fine tune their screening mechanism , I suppose . 054067 00001 macer235 - 11 : 29pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 54138 ) > 00002 rineyd : } 00003 *I sent a copy of your post praising Senator Feinstein . I noted that I ' m sure he ' s proud to have won the admiration of folks like you . Here ' s rineyd ' s post ( which seems to have become par for the course among the Clinton-haters here ) : 054068 00001 dayrell1 - 11 : 30pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 54138 ) > 00002 jim30b - 11 : 08pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( §§054037 } 00003 *You show all that you know nothing about Washington politics and by your ending statement ( " the little wench " thing referring to Lewinsky ) you show a callous disdain for what ' s humane with a misogynist tone in your rhetoric . The vote today was a " show " of unity by the Democrats on the issue of witnesses only - and all knew before hand ( including the media ) it would not go in favor of the White House . The 44 votes mean nothing in terms of a " flag " of the worthiness or worthlessness of the case House ' s case against the President . The witnesses and their testimony will be devastating to the cause of the Clinton defenders of the indefensible however . The human face on the proceedings will turn the already ebbing tide against the President completely . The trial will also enter into a phase that will produce new allegations and new evidence of witness tampering , obstruction of justice on the part of WJC and his cohorts . The Senate will have no choice but to make a deal ( a deal that has been on the drawing boards for a long time ) . Clinton will go - and Gore will take charge . And , the healing process will begin . Encapsulated but true . 054069 00001 Vegetius - 11 : 30pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 54138 ) } 00002 * " I AM THE APOSTLE OF HOPE " -----St . Billy Jeff FLYNTOON > 00003 jim30b - 11 : 25pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( §§054063 of 54064 ) } 00004 *to : vegitus : Or , conversly , it means that 55 senators are partisans , the result will be the same . Don ' t you find it funny that all 44 say the same thing " It is indefensible but , it is not impeachable " ? So they all think he is a rat but , they ALL think he is THEIR Rat . 054070 00001 jimbrown55 - 11 : 32pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 54138 ) } 00002 *Hey , we can tolerate 1 maverick out of 45 . It is interesting the G . O . P . kept all 55 of theirs in lock step . 054071 00001 svcarlson - 11 : 33pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 54138 ) } 00002 *Well , now it boils down to how far the President ' s lawyers want to go to expose the right wing conspiracy on the Senate floor . They may not want to go very far . They have an outcome they want out of this , too , for the good of the country . The Republicans are wheelin ' and dealin ' . They may get off the Senate floor without Starr ' s cabal being exposed beyond the New York Times story . It ' s possible . But they they may be in trouble when the Democrats release bomb shells of spin to the public to explain how this Paula Jones case was maintained for five years , then slipped into the Ken Starr office just when Bob Barr was going public with his calls for impeachment , in November 1997 . The Republicans will look slimier and slimier , until they are forced to divorce themselves from this coup attempt that was doomed to failure from its inception because of its rottenness . 054072 00001 _spammy_ - 11 : 33pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 54138 ) > 00002 jim30b - 11 : 25pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( #54063 of 54064 ) } 00003 *to : vegitus : Or , conversly , it means that 55 senators are partisans , the result will be the same . Don ' t you find it funny that all 44 say the same thing " It is indefensible but , it is not impeachable " ? So they all think he is a rat but , they ALL think he is THEIR Rat . Actually I don ' t think they give a rats ass what he did . 054073 00001 dbowman6 - 11 : 34pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 54138 ) } 00002 *I an a 54 year old male who has only once voted for a republican ( a distrinct court judge ) . I have voted in every election . I have never voted for Clinton in a demo . primary . He is not my idea of a perfect reflection of my values . However , I did vote for him as President on two occasions . Maybe , we " liberals " are partly responsible for this mess ? But we did not give Star 50 FBI agents and an unlimited expense account to investage something so petty--small--and reprehensible as a private relationship . What Bill did was wrong ; but it is not a fundmental attack upon the democatric intstutitions or processes . As an honnest to god liberal , I am in a delemia . I do not like Clintin but I am absolutely opposed to his enemies . Are the opponites of my ememies my friend ? any advise ? 054074 00001 mikerose2 - 11 : 34pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 54138 ) } 00002 *I agree with you that there is a natural arostocracy among men . The grounds for this are virtue and talents . Formerly bodily powers gave place among the aristoi . But since the invention of gunpowder has armed the weak as well as the strong with missle death , bodily strength , like beauty , good humor , politeness and other accomplishments , has become but an auxiliary ground of distinction and accomplishment . - T . Jefferson , Oct 28 , 1813 > 00003 00004 avlovausa - 04 : 37pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( #53480 of 54058 ) } 00005 * 00006 s an American living abroad and watching the Impeachment process , I am filled with sadness . I fear that the American Constitutional process and Congress have been hijacked by the Right Wing of the Republican Party , and future generations may well curse the Republicans who have set such a frightening precedent of using the Constitution to settle political scores and to achieve a purely political agenda . < / tt> 00007 } 00008 *Don ' t . And this is a serious answer . The idea that we ( the US ) is without flaw is a delusion . We are lucky enough to live in the prime of the nation , but as the Egyptian , Greek , Roman and Bitish empires declined , so will ours , eventually . ( Ant that ' s a Euro-centric view , withonly a nodding recognition of the Asia minor / Africa contributions ) -analogies can be found in the Far East , as well . No society is perfect and each contains the seeds of its own demise . Those of us who love our country enough to love it with its warts know that it is not perfect and that , eventually it , too , shall be eclipsed . History isn[ ' t excatly neat , but the trend is progress -- and the demise of natins of founded in their failure to progress and so be supplanted . occasionally , the know-nothings prvail for for a period -- and we have relative dark ages . But enlightenment wins in the end . The path is better explained by chaos theory than divine inspriation , but it is there . We enter the period of millienialist ferver . ( Who can trust someone who thinks , to start with the millenium ends at the start of 2000 rather than 2001 ? ) OK . . . the point : the nation is . It will survive . Those who sadden you won ' t . +++ 054075 00001 comcargru - 11 : 34pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 54138 ) > 00002 To : bgshafer - 11 : 27pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( §§054065 of 54066 ) : } 00003 *Very cute post . . . I found myself laughing . The only reason why you resort to lame humor is because you have no defense for a man who : RAN AWAY WHILE MEN DIED IN VIETNAM LIED TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ABOUT HIS DRUG USE LIED TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ABOUT HIS ADULTUROUS LIFE LIED TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ABOUT HEALTH CARE . . . I would rather have you laugh at me for standing up for some form of decency than stand beside you with a whoremaster and a liar . 054076 00001 macer235 - 11 : 36pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 54138 ) > 00002 Vegetius : } 00003 *That Jefferson had respect for Christ does not mean he had respect for organized religion , including Christianity . Jefferson ' s attitudes on that subject were close to those of Voltaire , who once said--regarding the Catholic Church : " Ecrasez l ' infame . " ( Crush the infamous thing ) . Voltaire was just as hostile to Protestant Churches , although--to the degree they were less organized and had a shorter history in which to accumulate atrocities--he feared them less . The spirit that drives fundamentalists here is the same spirit which drove the Klan to use Christian emblems . Other religions , to the degree their beliefs are strongly held , absolutists , literal-minded and fundamentalist tend to be sources of hate and violence as well . 054077 00001 asylum32 - 11 : 37pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 54138 ) } 00002 * " It ' s a consequence , first and foremost , of the president ' s appalling behavior . And you can ' t get around it and you can ' t explain it . " ----Mike McCurry > 00003 bgshafer : } 00004 *That ' s ' cause , as Winston Churchill once said . . . . " At 19 , every boy with a heart is a liberal . At 45 , every man with a brain is a conservative . " ...... > 00005 vegetius : } 00006 *John Glenn got his payoff for stonewalling Sen . Thompson ' s committee . . can you imagine what sly old " king of pork " Robert Byrd extorted from the White House for the little manuever he stage managed ? > 00007 smparker : } 00008 *Feingold won his last election by only 40 , 000 votes . I imagine Hillary et al are already plotting his downfall . 054078 00001 rineyd - 11 : 38pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 54138 ) } 00002 *Appreciate macer ' s relay of my posting - to think I was in the devil ' s camp pre Aug 17 , 1998 until Flynton indicated he had lied to me . Better late than never - thank G-d . 054079 00001 jerryhere - 11 : 40pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 54138 ) } 00002 *Bill has flaws Christopher Shays ( R-Vmt ) Is an absoloute and total idiot . Got beat up by an 8th grader . He ' s a clinton flack . 054080 00001 hugsy - 11 : 41pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 54138 ) } 00002 *In today ' s world , the cardinal said , the devil ' s force comes through widespread acceptance of ``lies and deceit . . . the idolatry of money . . . the idolatry of sex . ' ' 054081 00001 hershbjw2 - 11 : 42pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 54138 ) > 00002 comcargu post §§054075 : } 00003 *I just got back into this forum . Are you referring to Dan Quayle ? I think you should go easy on Dan . Even though he used his rich Dad to get him out of Vietnam , and even though he used to be a real hound for the old maryjane , we need to cut him slack . He may drool , but he drools Republican saliva . What do you say . . . can we forgive him ? 054082 00001 mikerose2 - 11 : 42pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 54138 ) } 00002 *I agree with you that there is a natural arostocracy among men . The grounds for this are virtue and talents . Formerly bodily powers gave place among the aristoi . But since the invention of gunpowder has armed the weak as well as the strong with missle death , bodily strength , like beauty , good humor , politeness and other accomplishments , has become but an auxiliary ground of distinction and accomplishment . - T . Jefferson , Oct 28 , 1813 > 00003 bobbo52 - 04 : 37pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( #53481 of 54058 ) } 00004 *> 00005 bviously you are ill-read but on the off chance that you ran across a poem that reads , in part , > 00006 No man is an island , entire to itself > 00007 nyone ' s specious impeachment diminishes me . . . " } 00008 * I knew I liked John Dunne -- even if I was subjected to the expurgated version . . . . about issues and the conservative / republicans stoop to personal attacks . BTW , I decided to exclude them from the term " Americans " , they no longer represent us nor deserve a place with us . In fact , I don ' t like their use of the word " republic " an . They have soiled that beautiful word . Although Nazi , wacho , nutcase , right-wing fanatic , religious zealot are acceptable and much more accurate ; ) It is amazing to me that little whores of Willy make thes kind of comments . Evidently while the rest of us , learned about the American Revolution these shills were still being molested by their parents or their personal version of Uncle Teddy The F@T @SS Kennedy . Let me guess , your ancestors were the P~ssy ' s that hide in the attic while the Right wing fanatics , religious zealots were out kicking the Willy Flynton ' s back to England or planting there overbearing @sses in the dirt . Yeap , and when it was over they rolled around in the mud , tore their clothes and LIED threw their teeth claimed they were war hero ' s . Yeah , Cowards , one and ALL ! 054085 00001 jimbrown55 - 11 : 43pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 54138 ) } 00002 *We can stand one maverick , Feingold . The G . O . P . had all 55 of their senators in lock step . 054086 00001 comcargru - 11 : 44pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 54138 ) > 00002 Yeah . . . macer , } 00003 *persona non grata , supkis . . . . It must make you folks feel good that Clinton shoved cigars up Lewinsky and then read the Night Before Christmas to a bunch of kids at the White House , huh ? 054087 00001 drhodez - 11 : 44pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 54138 ) } 00002 *Why don ' t you give it a rest . The Republicans pointing out the mendacity of the Dems is not going to change the mind of one Dem . Conversely , the Dems constant barage of lying , trying to defend a proven liar , will never change the mind of one Republican . When you realize this is not about right or wrong , but good vs . evil , then you will have a better understanding . The Democrats , by virture of just breathing , represent the good , and the Republicans , by virture of just being , cannot be anything but evil . After all , they are the ones who are starving children , and taking health care from the elderly . Get a grip and sit back and watch the show . 054088 00001 comcargru - 11 : 45pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 54138 ) } 00002 * Heil Clinton ! 054089 00001 wjmonahan - 11 : 45pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 54138 ) } 00002 *We knew who Bill Clinton was in 1992 and again in 1996 . We voted for him -- quite a few of us that is -- because the alternatives -- George Bush and Bob Dole with an increasing growing right wing movement -- would have been intolerable . The party of small government and low taxes to camp out in our closets , control our bodies and minds . Oh , if they only had the chance . Lord I pray , never let them get it . 054090 00001 tna1pada3 - 11 : 45pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 54138 ) } 00002 * " It ain ' t over til it ' s over " > 00003 dbowman6 } 00004 *The weapons aimed against President Clinton , if successfully wielded , will be used against anyone who might dare stand against those successfully wielding those weapons . What threatens one of us threatens all of us ; republicans understand the potential power attendant upon success thus risk all for a grab at the brass ring . 054091 00001 _spammy_ - 11 : 45pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 54138 ) > 00002 dbowman6 , } 00003 *Vote for Gore ? ; - ) I dunno . I don ' t think that the way a person conducts his / her private life is directly relevant to fitness for office , so the republicans are in the wrong on this one . What he did is repugnant , but it is his and Hillarys private life . 054092 00001 Vegetius - 11 : 46pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 54138 ) } 00002 * " I AM THE APOSTLE OF HOPE " -----St . Billy Jeff FLYNTOON > 00003 macer235 - 11 : 36pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( §§054076 of 54082 ) } 00004 *Vegetius : That Jefferson had respect for Christ does not mean he had respect for organized religion , including Christianity . Jefferson ' s attitudes on that subject were close to those of Voltaire , who once said--regarding the Catholic Church : " Ecrasez l ' infame . " ( Crush the infamous thing ) . Voltaire was just as hostile to Protestant Churches , although--to the degree they were less organized and had a shorter history in which to accumulate atrocities--he feared them less } 00005 *What is the point ? 054093 00001 asylum32 - 11 : 47pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 54138 ) } 00002 * " It ' s a consequence , first and foremost , of the president ' s appalling behavior . And you can ' t get around it and you can ' t explain it . " ----Mike McCurry > 00003 svcarlson : } 00004 *Same old song , thirty seventh ( or is it 3000th ) verse ...... When will a Clintonista get a new tune ? Next thing you know we ' ll be bombing Iraq ! You can talk in your paranoid fashion ( talk about black helicopters . . . . I ' ll bet you still worry about Bush ' s membership in Skull and Bones at Yale and the Trilateral Commission ) all day but that doesn ' t change the essential facts . No Bubba sex with an employee no Ken Starr . No perjury no impeachment . No obstruction of justice no impeachment . No wagging finger no impeachment . Bubba ' s just a big ' ole redneck con man . And you and the other Clintonistas just prove P . T . Barnum right . +++ 054094 00001 jerryhere - 11 : 47pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 54138 ) } 00002 *Bill has flaws It ain ' t over : no impeachement ? ? ? no trial ? ? ? no witnesses ? ? ? no conviction ? ? ? 054095 00001 hershbjw2 - 11 : 47pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 54138 ) > 00002 jimbrown : } 00003 *The impressive thing about Feingold is he got elected without DNC campaign funds or PAC money . His GOP opponents had scads of RNC money , but Feingold won by a narrow margin . Pretty cool guy . I will be interested in seeing where he comes down on the removal issue . 054096 00001 ether14 - 11 : 48pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 54138 ) } 00002 *Hey , man , it ain ' t partisan if 44 / 45 Democrats move in lock step but it ' s partisan if 55 / 55 Republicans and 1 Democrat vote together , right ? Like Teddy the Ken said : " Bill , you shoulda killed the b*tch ! " 054097 00001 comcargru - 11 : 48pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 54138 ) > 00002 To : drhodez - 11 : 44pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( §§054088 of 54089 ) : } 00003 *Please name the children who have died of malnutrition or the elderly who have died because of no health care based on Republican policies . } 00004 *What a stupid statement . 054098 00001 jim30b - 11 : 49pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 54138 ) > 00002 TO : DAYRELL1 : } 00003 *HOPE SPRINGS ETERNAL IN THE IMPEACHMENT FANTASY . 44+ senators , today said they don ' t give a rat ' s ass what Clinton did in the " peckergate " affair . It is too inconsequential a matter to take seriously . Whatever other little tortious , tedious , crimes can be ascribed to the private conduct of the president , it won ' t matter , just like it doesn ' t matter to over 2 / 3rds of the rest of us . As far a a full fledged trial , be careful what you ask for . 054099 00001 mikerose2 - 11 : 50pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 54138 ) } 00002 *I agree with you that there is a natural arostocracy among men . The grounds for this are virtue and talents . Formerly bodily powers gave place among the aristoi . But since the invention of gunpowder has armed the weak as well as the strong with missle death , bodily strength , like beauty , good humor , politeness and other accomplishments , has become but an auxiliary ground of distinction and accomplishment . - T . Jefferson , Oct 28 , 1813 Bulletin . . . . Bulletin . . . . Bulletin ...... Bullettin . . . . Libby Dole has denied rumors she was raised on the public dole , pointing out that Bob ' s viagra prescription did not take effect until he lost the election ...... 054100 00001 Vegetius - 11 : 51pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 54138 ) } 00002 Strategy #6 : Congress should allow +++ 054101 00001 magnificent77d - 11 : 52pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 54138 ) } 00002 * 00003 asylum32 1 / 27 / 99 11 : 47pm< / a> 00004 } 00005 *Barnum ? How about Freud ! ( The massas are *sses ) 054102 00001 ether14 - 11 : 52pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 54138 ) > 00002 sada} 00003 * " What threatens one threatens all of us . . . " } 00004 *I am personally not planning on placing my lance of love into the mouth of any interns less than half my age ; nor , lying to the American public , my staff , my Cabinet , a Federal Court or a Federal criminal grand jury . . . . . I will also be passing on obstructing justice and witness tampering to say nothing of suborning perjury ...... SO LEAVE ME OUT OF YOUR GROUP , ( . ) ! 054103 00001 d-fendr - 11 : 52pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 54138 ) } 00002 *Clinton , the helpless victim . . of his own actions . . I think there ' s a psychological term for such thinking . . . 054104 00001 jammerbirdi - 11 : 54pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 54138 ) } 00002 *I heard one more blathering idiot last night ( on Nightline during a voice from the soapbox segment near the end ) repeat the often heard argument that removing Bill Clinton from office is not coup-like because , if it were , Bob Dole would then be president . The fact that Al Gore is of the president ' s party and shares his agenda seems to appease the coup fears of those who undoubtedly never voted for Clinton in the first place and would like nothing more than to see the will of the people undone . Let me enlighten anyone who is naive enough to be sucked in by this particular gobbledy-goop Beyond the fact that every action in this proccess has been undertaken on a strictly partisan basis , by the members of the party opposite that of the president ' s , Al Gore is simply not Bill Clinton and he was no more elected by the people to the office of the presidency than Bob Dole was . The one and only individual , of the entire five or six million strong who make up the Executive Branch of our government , who was elected by the people is William Jefferson Clinton . THE VICE-PRESIDENT IS CHOSEN BY THE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE AND / OR HIS PARTY AT THE CONVENTION . Pick a president , the VP comes with the package . The notion that , because Al Gore shares the president ' s passions for a great number of programs , his administration would be , in effect , Clinton cont . requires the belief that a president is only the interchangeable leader of his party , chief advocate of their agenda , and nothing more . Bill Clinton is not interchangeable with anyone . He is by far , the most intelligent and effective president in my lifetime . We have lived through crooks , clutzes , wusses , a doddering old windbag who wasn ' t even good at his original occupation ( acting ) , and a completely ineffective warmonger who murdered hundreds of thousands of Iraqis and , when he had a chance , would not go after the real enemy because he didn ' t want to " destabalize the region . " No one knows what kind of president Al Gore would be and , who knows , the American people may never elect him as president and we may never know . But to say that he could step into the job and do so without a substantive change in leadership is like saying that Lyndon Johnson was no different than JFK because he managed to push the dead president ' s programs through Congress . 054105 00001 wjmonahan - 11 : 54pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 54138 ) } 00002 *Don ' t worry about Bill getting off in the Senate . Henry Hyde and his Judiuciary dozen ( where is little Mary Bono these days ? ? ) are just waiting to start up the hearings again on those items Ken Starr didn ' t report on . And if the President is removed from office , Henry and his tidy men will take on Al Gore and campaign financing . Perhaps that ' s why they didn ' t want campaignreforms last session . " If we keep the flood gates open , somethng will happen . " 054106 00001 Vegetius - 11 : 55pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 54138 ) } 00002 * " I AM THE APOSTLE OF HOPE " -----St . Billy Jeff FLYNTOON " It ain ' t over til it ' s over " > 00003 dbowman6 } 00004 *The weapons aimed against President Clinton , if successfully wielded , will be used against anyone who might dare stand against those successfully wielding those weapons . What threatens one of us threatens all of us Where was this logic in 1973 ? . . Or for Judge Thomas ? You have to be on the payroll . 054107 00001 smparker1 . 2 - 11 : 58pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 54138 ) } 00002 *It took the election of Bill Clinton to show America and the world that the Democratic Party is without soul and principles . All the talk about the demise of the Republican Party is just that---talk . " Great parties stand for great principles . " Democrats have conclusively shown over the past year that all their alleged " principles " were merely political talking points to alleviate their acute pangs of " gavel envy " . +++ 990128 054108 00001 d-fendr - 11 : 58pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 54138 ) } 00002 *Let ' s see , Clinton and Dole opposed each other for president . Clinton won . If we were to overturn that election , who would win ? Gore ? Oh , ok . yeah , then impeachment is overturning an election . All of which has nothing to to with the topic - the impeachment trial - a constitutional procedure to remove a ' duly elected ' president upon conviction by the senate . 054109 00001 hugsy - 11 : 59pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 54138 ) } 00002 *In today ' s world , the cardinal said , the devil ' s force comes through widespread acceptance of ``lies and deceit . . . the idolatry of money . . . the idolatry of sex . ' ' 054110 00001 vrwcarea51g - 12 : 01am Jan 28 , 1999 EST ( of 54138 ) > 00002 jimbrown55 - 11 : 43pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( #54085 of 54099 ) } 00003 *We can stand one maverick , Feingold . The G . O . P . had all 55 of their senators in lock step . Oh yeah , Now voting for witnesses in a IMPEACHMENT TRIAL , is called being a maverick or being in lock step . . . . Hmmmmm . MR . HIGH I . Q . , Just how many Grad . classes did you have to take to come up with that statement ? Think about that for just one MINUTE ! IDIOT 054111 00001 magnificent77d - 12 : 01am Jan 28 , 1999 EST ( of 54138 ) } 00002 *WEBSTER ' S DICTIONARY TRIES TO REDEFINE FELONY AS . . . . A federal appeals court yesterday reinstated tax-evasion charges against former Associate Attorney General Webster L . Hubbell , his wife and two advisers , saying a federal judge who threw out the case overstepped his authority . In a major victory for independent counsel Kenneth W . Starr , a three-judge panel of the U . S . Circuit Court of Appeals for the D . C . Circuit ruled 2-1 that U . S . District Judge James Robertson erred when he said Mr . Starr lacked authority to bring the case and had improperly used records turned over in an immunity deal to prosecute the former Justice Department official . 054112 00001 d-fendr - 12 : 02am Jan 28 , 1999 EST ( of 54138 ) } 00002 *Quite proud of the holy father too . Peace and good health to him . His ' don ' t believe their lies ' speech yesterday was very inspiring . 054113 00001 hugsy - 12 : 02am Jan 28 , 1999 EST ( of 54138 ) } 00002 *In today ' s world , the cardinal said , the devil ' s force comes through widespread acceptance of ``lies and deceit . . . the idolatry of money . . . the idolatry of sex . ' ' 054114 00001 smparker1 . 2 - 12 : 05am Jan 28 , 1999 EST ( of 54138 ) } 00002 *Split in the Democrat Party . . . Old Line Democrats who have a conscience , and Kneepad Democrats , who now have the party in their iron grip . 054115 00001 mikerose2 - 12 : 13am Jan 28 , 1999 EST ( of 54138 ) } 00002 *I agree with you that there is a natural arostocracy among men . The grounds for this are virtue and talents . Formerly bodily powers gave place among the aristoi . But since the invention of gunpowder has armed the weak as well as the strong with missle death , bodily strength , like beauty , good humor , politeness and other accomplishments , has become but an auxiliary ground of distinction and accomplishment . - T . Jefferson , Oct 28 , 1813 > 00003 atrickjquinn - 04 : 59pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( #53521 of 54111 ) } 00004 * > 00005 ou know , I always bust a gut everytime I hear Larry King and Phil Donohue state that they are " registered Independents " ! ! ! } 00006 * remind me not to underwite your medical insurance ...... 054116 00001 rikus4 - 12 : 13am Jan 28 , 1999 EST ( of 54138 ) } 00002 * [[[[[[[####***<> 00003 > 00004 You LIBERALS are so stupid that you think the Republicans are going to vote like you want them to . You LIBERALS didn ' t vote them in the first place we conseritive did and they vote like conseritive . Why should they vote like the DemocRATS wants them to , is it that they just want them to cut thier own feet off . They are not that stupid think GOD or as of now they are not . Clinton is trying to take ever thing over and you LIBERALS do not believe me . Why don ' t you Democrates get some body like Bill Bradly or Sam Nunn . They are good people . No you all are corrupt so you need somebody that is corrupt . I guess it is so you can say he is just like me he is my father and I am his son . ONLY 13% of the reg . voter voting for Clinton this don ' t sound like the AMERICA people voting Clinton in . 054117 00001 jammerbirdi - 12 : 13am Jan 28 , 1999 EST ( of 54138 ) > 00002 d-fendr - 11 : 58pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( #54109 of 54109 ) } 00003 * " If we were to overturn that election , who would win ? " } 00004 *The answer is in your question : If WE . . . . You guys would win . You would then have chosen who , at least for two years , would be president . The party of Bob Dole would have undone the election of Bill Clinton and it doesn ' t matter if Hillary took over , it still isn ' t the person elected by the people . The party of Bob Dole would have hounded Bill Clinton from office , either by impeachment or resignation . Nothing to do with this topic ? It may not be ultimately pertinent to the outcome but as long as the pres ' s enemies bring up the argument someone has to beeatch slap them . +++ 054118 00001 dbowman6 - 12 : 18am Jan 28 , 1999 EST ( of 54138 ) > 00002 Spammy : } 00003 *thanks for responding . Gore is not my candidate . I would prefer someone who said , " a job is the entitlement of every american . I resolve to build a public educational system which will equip the graduate to find employment ; and if he or she is unemployable ; then the Federal system will put them to work . Tnalpada3 : thanks for responding . You maybe right . I have a 23 year old daughter in graduate school--political science . If the president inititated a relationship with her , then I would have offered the president the opportunity to reslove this situation under some tale oaks at day break . However , this does not resolve our current difficulty . 054119 00001 dayrell1 - 12 : 30am Jan 28 , 1999 EST ( of 54138 ) } 00002 *dbowman6 - 11 : 34pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( #54073 Don ' t buy the rhetoric of the those who would defend the indefensible with dogged fanaticism . Bill Clinton paternalistically wagged his finger in your face and unabashedly lied to all of us at once . Not only did he lie about the true nature of his sexual relationship with his underling intern but also distorted the meaning of that relationship in a strained and skewed definition of what constitutes a " sexual " relationship in our culture and selfishly ignored its profound impact on our legal system and our young people . This of course is not an impeachable offense per say but it does indicate the extent to which the so-called leader and Chief Law Enforcement Officer of our country would go in order to skew the truth and save his hide ( not his family - they have been subject to his misogyny for years ) . The fact of the matter is that Bill Clinton orchestrated an elaborate scheme to circumvent and politicize a lawsuit brought by an ordinary American citizen Paula Jones in order to thwart the rule of law and block her Constitutionally mandated access to due process . For this he should and will be removed from office by the Senate . The Republican Party has been demonized by the fear mongering radicals that permeate this Forum . They see any Republican as a twisted , distorted devil like image ferrying through their paranoid and active imaginations . Don ' t buy into it - the " blood " of the polarization of the Nation is purely on the hands of the radical Democrats whose prime interest is in disrupting the American political process ( 60 ' s style ) in order to get their way ( hey they think it worked before - and it ' s all they know ) and creating confusion and chaos by their shear rhetoric and " radical street theater " seething stratagems . They will lose - big time - this time . Don ' t be part of the extremism . The Constitution allows for the removal of a President under guidelines that are succinct the process will go smoothly - the Senate will be forever held to its decisions on the matter of Clinton ' s crimes - let the history books write the legacy of Clinton and the future of the Democrats . Even Clinton himself quoting the Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam said : The moving finger writes . . . and having writ moves on . . . . nor all your piety nor wit can change half a line . . . nor all your tears wash out a word of it . Or better yet , " if it twer done when twer done . . . twer well . " ( Shakespear ) 054120 00001 magnificent77d - 12 : 35am Jan 28 , 1999 EST ( of 54138 ) } 00002 *Webster Hubbell is convicted of tax evasion and mail fraud involving the theft of nearly a half million dollars from his partners at the Rose firm and failing to pay nearly $150 , 000 in taxes . After quitting the Justice Department and before going to jail , Hubbell is a busy man . He meets with Hillary Clinton , and follows up by getting together with major scandal figures John Huang , James Riady , and Ng Lapseng . Riady and Huang go to the White House every day from June 21 to June 25 , 1994 according to White House records . Hubbell had breakfast and lunch with Riady on June 23 . Four days later -- and one week after Hubbell ' s meeting with Hillary -- the Hong Kong Chinese Bank , jointly owed by Lippo and the Chinese intelligence services , sends $100 , 000 to Hubbell . Huang , incidentally , formerly worked for the Hong Kong Chinese Bank . Hubbell also receives $400 , 000 from other sources . Three weeks later , according to the Washington Weekly , Huang began working for the Commerce Department , receiving numerous top secret intelligence briefings and making extraordinary use of the fax machine at a Stephens Inc office across the street from Commerce 054121 00001 james . beckwith - 12 : 38am Jan 28 , 1999 EST ( of 54138 ) } 00002 * " The witnesses and their testimony will be devastating to the cause of the Clinton defenders of the indefensible however . The human face on the proceedings will turn the already ebbing tide against the President completely . " } 00003 *The " human face " that the American public has seen is that of Asa Hutchinson smirking about winning the witness battle or Tom DeLay almost jumping up and down in glee after the articles of impeachment passed . Talk about party discipline and whipping ! The tide turned for most of the American public when Starr presented his preposterous report to the House , and those of us who remembered Lawrence Walsh ' s report as independent prosecutor and were able to compare it to the Starr report . Walsh was as honorable as Starr ' s behaviour has been despicible . On the one hand , we had clearly documented and provable examples of President Reagan lying to the American people and President-to-be Bush lying *under oath* to Congress . On the other , President Clinton lied to the public , his family and associates when he was caught with his pants down ( so to speak . ) It is clear to me which offenses should have resulted in impeachment . It is just as clear that the Clinton impeachment came about because of immoral behaviour on the part of the Republican House leadership , and the allegations stink of an abuse of the power of a blindly partisan Congressional majority . It is this abuse that has me feeling frustrated and powerless , and to me this is the outstanding example of the moral decline of this republic . In response to the comments about the NYT forum moderator allowing attacks on participants , I ' m impressed that the NYT has most likely provided this forum as a public service , a place where we can vent . Nobody reads this except ourselves , those of us who feel powerless and frustrated ( about either side of the question ) can post to our heart ' s delight , and all of us are able to see a small sample of the type of hate that must be received in the White House each day . But I am pleasantly surprised to see that the hate here is spewed by a small handful of fools who seem to have an infinite amount of time for haunting this forum . They are such a small number , show such hate and express it with so little imagination that maybe there is hope for the United States after all . +++ 054122 00001 rikus4 - 12 : 49am Jan 28 , 1999 EST ( of 54138 ) } 00002 * [[[[[[[####****<> 00003 > 00004 TO smparker1 . 2<<> 00005 Good point about the kneepads . The DemocRATS can sell thier ASS and get a pair of kneepads and kiss Clinton ' s you know and be known as the KNEEPAD PARTY right on . 054123 00001 dbowman6 - 12 : 55am Jan 28 , 1999 EST ( of 54138 ) > 00002 Dayrell1 : } 00003 *thank you for thoughtful reponse . I also like Shakespear==in my own way . In high school I was forced to read McBeth ; I hated it but I remember a line , " If it most be done , let it be done sweftly . " ( sorry about the spelling ) . 054124 00001 d-fendr - 12 : 59am Jan 28 , 1999 EST ( of 54138 ) } 00002 *from my seat , I see the hate - as well as the overblown rhetoric - about equal on both sides . sorta follows the federal equal opportunity guidelines for hate , foolishness and jerk behaviour . It ' s a bipartisan agreement I think . 054125 00001 collioure1 - 01 : 03am Jan 28 , 1999 EST ( of 54138 ) } 00002 *Truth and honesty are not the currency of the Clinton administration ( Chinese money is preferred ) G ' d evening , fellow posters . Looks like we ' re headed for separate votes on guilty and removal . Gives just about everybody an out . 054126 00001 d-fendr - 01 : 04am Jan 28 , 1999 EST ( of 54138 ) } 00002 *collioure , Say it ain ' t so ! how is this constitutional ? 054127 00001 smparker1 . 2 - 01 : 04am Jan 28 , 1999 EST ( of 54138 ) } 00002 *WASHINGTON ( AP ) -- In newly unsealed court papers in the Monica Lewinsky investigation , Kenneth Starr says the White House and defense lawyers -- not the prosecutor ' s office -were the prime suspects in a flood of leaks to the news media . Starr ' s court papers focus on the sharing of sensitive information between attorneys for key witnesses and the Clinton White House starting in the initial stages of the Lewinsky scandal . Clinton ' s attorneys scoffed at the suggestion the White House was the source of the leaks , accusing the prosecutor ' s office of ``trying to deflect attention from itself . ' ' Early in the inquiry , Clinton lawyer David Kendall kicked off a behind-the-scenes court battle by accusing Starr ' s office of leaking damaging information about the president to the news media . The result is an investigation in which an appointee of U . S . District Judge Norma Holloway Johnson is trying to determine whether Starr ' s office fed grand jury information to reporters in 24 different news stories . After Kendall publicly suggested Feb . 6 that the source for a New York Times story was Starr ' s office , prosecutor Robert Bittman responded with a two-page document filed in federal court pointing to the White House and the lawyer for presidential secretary Betty Currie as the likely sources . Mrs . Currie ' s lawyer , Lawrence Wechsler , says he wasn ' t the source of the story . The newspaper revealed Clinton ' s Jan . 18 discussion with Mrs . Currie about Ms . Lewinsky , a central piece of the perjury and obstruction impeachment charges against Clinton . In the Jan . 18 discussion and a second conversation a few days later , the president made comments to his secretary such as ``Monica came on to me , and I never touched her , right ? ' ' and ``We were never really alone . ' ' Bittman ' s newly unsealed declaration from last February says that ``Lawrence H . Wechsler , private counsel to Ms . Currie , told me ' ' he is ``a longtime friend of Charles F . C . Ruff , White House counsel ' ' and that ``Mr . Ruff referred Ms . Currie to Mr . Wechsler when she ``consulted with Mr . Ruff about getting an attorney . ' ' Bittman said Wechsler ``confirmed to me that the president ' s defense attorneys had been provided the substance of Ms . Currie ' s information in advance of the publication ' ' of the Times article . In the newly unsealed court papers , Starr asserted that ``this White House previously has employed a concentrated strategy of leaking harmful material to the media at an early stage to reduce long-term damage . . . . There is a strong prima facie case that the president and his agents . . . are responsible for many of the alleged `leaks . ' ' ' ``Starr has this habit of pointing fingers at other people to masquerade his own wrongdoing , and this is just another example of that sleight of hand , ' ' White House spokesman Jim Kennedy said Wednesday . In some of the newly unsealed court papers , Kendall stated that ``assuming only for the present that the White House was privy to the Currie information in the ( New York Times ) article , the White House had no interest in early disclosure of the information . ' ' 054128 00001 collioure1 - 01 : 10am Jan 28 , 1999 EST ( of 54138 ) } 00002 *Truth and honesty are not the currency of the Clinton administration ( Chinese money is preferred ) > 00003 d-fendr - 01 : 04am Jan 28 , 1999 EST ( #54126 } 00004 *Very astute , fendr . I understand the vote on guilty would refer to " certain offenses . " 054129 00001 magnificent77d - 01 : 12am Jan 28 , 1999 EST ( of 54138 ) } 00002 *The Washington Times reports that Clinton has pardoned without fanfare a gambling pal of his mother . Jack Pakis was convicted under the Organized Crime Control Act , sentenced to two years in prison , but the sentence was suspended . He was fined and put on probation . Pakis had been arrested as part of an FBI sting operation against illegal gambling in Hot Springs . According to the Washington Times , " his trial judge described Mr . Pakis as a professional gambler , part owner of an illegal casino and an illegal bookmaker for football and horse-racing bets . " US District Judge Oren Harris , remarked that the FBI had " reached into Hot Springs to put a stop to gambling that has existed here since the 1920s . " But he suspends the sentence , saying that since local acceptance of gambling was so widespread it would be unfair to send Pakis and his co-defendants to jail . Pakis , incidentally , once owned a piece of the Southern Club -- Al Capone ' s favorite -- in Hot Springs where , as Clinton ' s mom put it in her autobiography , " gangsters were cool and the rules were meant to be bent . " +++ 054130 00001 smparker1 . 2 - 01 : 12am Jan 28 , 1999 EST ( of 54138 ) } 00002 *Good night , all . . . I ' m sorry we don ' t have HTML , but maybe it ' s for the best . It ' s handy for posting articles and linking other posts . Unfortunately there were some who merely used it for posting repeated inanities of sight and sound , and their conspicuous absence since HTML was deleted demonstrates their lack of ideas . Perhaps the NYT has a way to allow links to other news stories only ? I hope so . See you all later . 054131 00001 d-fendr - 01 : 12am Jan 28 , 1999 EST ( of 54138 ) } 00002 *``Starr has this habit of pointing fingers at other people to masquerade his own wrongdoing . . . ' ' White House spokesman Jim Kennedy said Wednesday . A textbook example of standing truth on its head . 054132 00001 d-fendr - 01 : 13am Jan 28 , 1999 EST ( of 54138 ) > 00002 smparker , } 00003 *very true , now I feel better about losing it . 054133 00001 collioure1 - 01 : 14am Jan 28 , 1999 EST ( of 54138 ) } 00002 *Truth and honesty are not the currency of the Clinton administration ( Chinese money is preferred ) > 00003 smparker1 . 2 - 01 : 04am Jan 28 , 1999 EST ( #54127 } 00004 *That ' s what I ' ve been saying all along . The WH did most of the leaking . Late in this scandal we got insight into situations where the IC could ( and perhaps should ) have leaked to defend itself and didn ' t . The WH had gone public with known lies full well-knowing they wouldn ' t be challenged by the IC . 054134 00001 rikus4 - 01 : 16am Jan 28 , 1999 EST ( of 54138 ) } 00002 * [[[[[[[###***<> 00003 > 00004 Clinton , Hubbell , Huang and servel more have committ treason and it is a matter of time until they are caught with it . China has broken the international law but Clinton don ' t care because that is where he gets his money from . Clinton is going down . Before it is over he proable be court martial for treason . He has alreadly committ treason aginst he U . S . of A . and Carter pardon him for it . Tis a real good kneepad party don ' t you think 054135 00001 d-fendr - 01 : 16am Jan 28 , 1999 EST ( of 54138 ) } 00002 *collioure , in other words , they still haven ' t voted on the articles of impeachment then , if they can vote guilty and not remove , the articles of impeachment logically cannot be the same offenses he is guilty of . what could be clearer : " shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for and Conviction of , Treason , Bribery , or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors " 054136 00001 dayrell1 - 01 : 18am Jan 28 , 1999 EST ( of 54138 ) > 00002 ames . beckwith - 12 : 38am Jan 28 , 1999 EST ( #54121 } 00003 *Stick around James and you will see the " darker side " of your comrades on the left . Their twisted agenda is clear to all now - their " game plan " for America ' s future is written on the tablets of this Forum for all to see . Unfortunately you buy into the simplistic lock step defense of the indefensible and the floundering apologetics for the " in your face " debauchery of WJC . The rest of America doesn ' t . The Senate also will have no choice but to sound the call to the Sargent of Arms at the White House to escort Bill to the limo for his ride the Helicopter pad and onto the pages of history . No one should take glee in this fact however . This is a tragic page in our Nation ' s history - and unfortunately for Bill those who urged him to " fight to the bitter end " will desert him in the end . You see James there is no real loyalty among those who need to WIN at any cost the sustain of that one more day in afterglow power . The friends you make in those circles are in the end strange strangers indeed . When the phone stops ringing at the Clinton White House - the real spiral into the abyss will begin and because you urged him on with your rhetoric you did him a grave disservice . You should have urged him to tell the truth and admit he lied under oath but , instead you urged him to continue to dig in his heels which eventually became mired in quicksand . Shame on all of you - who selfishly used his fall from grace to garner your own pathetic agendas . 054137 00001 havnaer - 01 : 22am Jan 28 , 1999 EST ( of 54138 ) > 00002 ollioure1 - } 00003 *RE : i " Looks like we ' re headed for separate votes on guilty and removal . " } 00004 *How can they vote on removal if they don ' t get 2 / 3 guilty ? ? New rule ? ? smparker1 . 2 Nice article , but it provides only an accusation that the WH leaked info based on hearsay evidence that that they may have known the information before it was leaked . Helpful for criminal defense ( reasonable doubt that Starr ' s team leaked ) , but wholly unsuitable as " proof " that WH leaked info to the press . Of course , this is the logic of the Starr team ; if the Prez MIGHT have had the opportunity to do something wrong , it proves that he SURELY DID do something wrong . Guilty until proven innocent . 054138 00001 d-fendr - 01 : 28am Jan 28 , 1999 EST ( of 54138 ) } 00002 *the logic of this attempt seems to infer that redefining character , honesty and justice have not proved enough to save Bill ' s hide , we must now start on the constitution itself . to tear down the tree in order to get the apple you want . why not just pass a constitutional amendment making William Jefferson Clinton exempt from the constraints of the constitution ? +++ 054142 00001 meristar - 01 : 39am Jan 28 , 1999 EST ( of 55761 ) } 00002 *What is with Clinton ? He bombs a country while he is being impeached and tried ? This man can bomb away to save his face and get away with it . Get away with murder . I am afraid too . I am human and I have fears . I would not like to stand up to this man who has the power to lie in a civil rights lawsuit and then turn around and bomb a whole country to deflect attention from his lie . Did you hear his excuse about the timing ? One of his excuses was he had to bomb the Muslims before Ramadan ! I bet the Muslims were very thankful for his kindness . That is sort of like the Japanese bombing Pearl Harbor just before Christmas ! Of course , he kept on bombing after Ramadan too . Ramadan made no difference to him . This is an imperial presidency . Clinton bombed and killed those people as a grandstand for his own power . Hardly anyone around anymore is criticizing the military and imperial presidency . Clinton needs to go . I would like a smaller government with more personal freedom . 054143 00001 d-fendr - 01 : 39am Jan 28 , 1999 EST ( of 55761 ) > 00002 clsi : } 00003 *And what is the " good behaviour standard for Judges " ? What is the criteria to remove a judge who has not lived up to that ' good behaviour standard ? 054144 00001 magnificent77d - 01 : 41am Jan 28 , 1999 EST ( of 55761 ) } 00002 *By John McCaslin THE WASHINGTON TIMES Last May , when President and Mrs . Clinton hosted a state dinner honoring Italian Prime Minister Romano Prodi , most invited guests had last names ending in " a , " " i " or " o . " Among the exceptions : CNN legal analyst Greta Van Susteren , co- host of " Burden of Proof , " and her lawyer-husband , John P . Coale . Italian or not , the Clintons were happy to greet the couple . Mrs . Van Susteren , fairly or not , was about to be crowned President Clinton ' s " chief cheerleader . " And as for Mr . Coale , an anti-tobacco lawyer and chief negotiator of the 1997 tobacco settlement between the states and the tobacco companies , he was contributing another way . In the past year alone , Federal Election Commission records reveal , Mr . Coale has been a big contributor to the Democratic Party . Among his donations : March 16 , 1998 -- $10 , 000 to the Democratic National Committee May 8 , 1998 -- $5 , 000 to the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee . June 30 , 1998 -- $5 , 000 to Friends of Albert Gore Jr . Sept . 23 , 1998 -- $10 , 000 to the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee . " Yes , I contributed to the Democratic Party , " Mr . Coale tells this column , quick to add , however , that each contribution was made in his name alone . " We file separate tax returns , and our finances are separate , " he says of Mrs . Van Susteren . Furthermore , Mr . Coale says his wife couldn ' t contribute if she wanted to . " They have rules at CNN against that kind of stuff , " he tells us . Sure enough , FEC records we examined show Mrs . Van Susteren made her last political contribution on Sept . 1 , 1994 -- $1 , 000 to Joel Hyatt of Hyatt Legal Services , an unsuccessful Democratic nominee for the Senate seat vacated by his father-in-law , Howard Metzenbaum . 054145 00001 dayrell1 - 01 : 43am Jan 28 , 1999 EST ( of 55761 ) > 00002 clsi1 - 01 : 35am Jan 28 , 1999 EST ( #54140 } 00003 *Well , they got their witnesses didn ' t they ? So what next are you poised to " trash " the witnesses if they burst your self absorbed bubble of pure bunk ? Go ahead , continue to circumvent the rule of law and continue to distort the Constitution - in the end you will be left stranded on your obscure isle of delusion - alone and distitute . 054146 00001 clsi1 - 01 : 43am Jan 28 , 1999 EST ( of 55761 ) } 00002 *Specificall . . . " The Judges , both of the supreme and inferior Courts , shall hold their Offices during good Behaviour , and shall , at stated Times , receive for their Services a Compensation , which shall not be diminished during their Continuance in Office " Article III , section 1 054147 00001 tatufr1 - 01 : 44am Jan 28 , 1999 EST ( of 55761 ) } 00002 *About the two votes , conviction and removal . If the Demos want to go on record keeping a convicted Perjuror and Obstructor in the highest office in the land . . . so be it . It will be on them , about the scum they support . Meanwhile , full steam ahead for the Republican agenda and campaign machines . Algore ' s going to get the kind of Global Warming he didn ' t plan on . . . 054148 00001 d-fendr - 01 : 45am Jan 28 , 1999 EST ( of 55761 ) } 00002 *yes , > 00003 clsi , } 00004 *yes , you repeat , that is how they " shall hold their Offices during good Behaviour " but , let ' s say a judge does not exhibit ' good behaviour . ' How then is he / she removed ? what are the constitution methods and criteria to remove said judge ? 054149 00001 clsi1 - 01 : 50am Jan 28 , 1999 EST ( of 55761 ) } 00002 *I happen to still have my Constitutional Law text / case book and it is close at hand if anyone actually is curious . I would also suggest that all of the Materials I mentioned are on the Web . Look , I do not believe that because one is a Republican or Democrat they are either unreasonable or irrational . I simply believe that we get so much distorted crap thrown at us by unscrupulous people with political agenda ' s that if anyone really wants to know the answer to something they need to read it for themsleves . Reading the Constitution , The Federalist Papers , The anti-Federalist Papers , a Criminal Law Case book , etc . will really help one develop their own thoughts on this issue , their governement in general , and their civic place . . . 054150 00001 puckstein - 01 : 50am Jan 28 , 1999 EST ( of 55761 ) } 00002 *What is it with those who have recently posted stuff ? Are you all under 40 ? The Viet Nam war was an event that those in power - Kennedy , Johnson and Nixon - deceived us all and should have been tried for high crimes and misdemeanors . Now a lot of you get totally hung up on a sexual cover up . Just remember a lot of Americans died for their lies . Boy all of you should get a clue . This country needs to get beyond this BS ! There is no honesty in all of Wahington at ALL ! ! ! +++ 990129 055644 00001 d-fendr - 12 : 55am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55767 ) } 00002 *January 25 , 1999 ZOGBY AMERICA POLL The poll of 993 likely voters throughout the United States was conducted January 19-21 , 1999 . Who do you blame most for this case - the President or the Republicans in Congress ? President 44 . 5 Republicans 30 . 7 Both 18 . 4 Neither 4 . 3 Not sure 2 . 2 055645 00001 tna1pada3 - 12 : 56am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55767 ) } 00002 * " It ain ' t over til it ' s over " > 00003 dentedfender } 00004 *Hijack . 055646 00001 willie_the_worm - 12 : 56am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55767 ) } 00002 *Geez ! , now it has been revealed that tom delay , clinton ' s stauchest opponent , has been found to have fudged the facts and most likely commited perjury in a business deal in 1994 and lied under oath . And this paragon of morality has the audacity to point the finger at Clinton ? What rocks do these republicans crawl out from under ? See the New Republic articles . 055647 00001 d-fendr - 12 : 59am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55767 ) } 00002 *Are the Republicans frightened ? Jan . 27 , 1999 William Buckley Republican legislators need a little cheer . What is being said is that they will be punished by the voters -Republican congressmen , for voting impeachment ; Republican senators , for voting conviction . The line of defense being used by party officials is what you would expect : The Constitution provides an avenue for disqualifying a president from continued office ; this president has offended the Constitution by lying and attempting to subvert justice ; for that reason he was impeached ; and for that reason , Republican senators will vote to convict . So you don ' t like that ? Well , madam , put it in your pipe and smoke it . The whole thing has become tiresome , as certainly newspaper columnists will attest . But one wonders at this point not so much whether the apparent endlessness of it all is going to put us all to sleep . The more interesting question is whether , in the days before the next election in the year 2000 , it will be possible to acknowledge the motives of what Republican congressmen , and a few Democrats , actually did . They reacted to what President Clinton did and said . How would you describe what he did and said ? Well , why not quote from his most eloquent defender , former senator Dale Bumpers , who brought the whole country to a standstill in admiration of his plea not to convict his old friend . What Clinton did , Bumpers said , was " indefensible , outrageous , unforgivable , shameless . " Bumpers means by indefensible , we deduce , something which you can defend -after all , Clinton was only trying to cover up a sex thing . He means by unforgivable , something you can forgive . After all , Clinton was only , well , only trying to cover up a sex thing . That leaves us with only outrageous and shameless . And what do you do when you behave outrageously and shamelessly ? You call your lawyers . Time magazine ' s Nancy Gibbs neatly describes Clinton ' s hectic activity during that uproarious week at the end of which what seemed the entire country celebrated the survival of Mr . Clinton . Included in the charts of public opinion is the answer to the question , " All things considered , 25 years from now do you think Bill Clinton will be remembered more for : His accomplishments as president ? -- 18 percent . Controversies over his personal life and financial dealings ? -- 72 percent . " And the GOP is supposed to worry about November , 22 months from now ? 055648 00001 tamerlane2 - 01 : 00am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55767 ) } 00002 *You republicans have always wrapped yourselves in ' Old Glory ' . Well , this time the flag is your winding sheet . You ' ve dug the hole , garbed yourselves in the shroud of a scoundrel and two weeks from now the earth will cover your treason . 055649 00001 smparker1 . 2 - 01 : 02am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55767 ) > 00002 d-fendr 1 / 29 / 99 12 : 47am } 00003 *You must keep in mind that cult of personality worship leads people to believe the most brazenly outlandish stories---promoted and perpetuated by aparatchiks like Cheryl Mills---that put the object of their worship into god-like mythology . In the 1960 ' s a famous photo of Mao pictured him swimming in the Yangtse River with several commrades . The story filed by the China News Agency stated that Mao covered the distance between two points ( about 4 miles ) in a time that would have shattered every existing world swimming record . Quite a feat for a man in his late ' 60 ' s , at the very least . These are part and parcel of the descent into cult of personality worship that turns otherwise normal ( although weak-minded ) individuals into Stepford clones . 055650 00001 d-fendr - 01 : 02am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55767 ) } 00002 *Are the Republicans frightened ? ( CONT ' D ) Jan . 27 , 1999 William Buckley Here is the nature of the frustration being felt by those who do really believe that what Mr . Clinton did was indefensible and outrageous . It is that in our culture , it is simply not possible to give to a president authority as a detached political technician . It is a part of human nature to admire and even to love people who exercise great power . Ivan the Terrible was cheered by the crowds and beseeched not to give up his crown . Stalin and Hitler brought on thunderous public approval . One day after Mr . Clinton ' s State of the Union address , one week after 20 hours ' enumeration of the deeds and words that caused Dale Bumpers to assert the need to forgive the unforgivable , Clinton was in Buffalo , speaking at a great rally . The minister who gave the invocation called him " the greatest president for our people of all time . " Twenty-five years from now , will they be saying that he was the greatest president because of his political ability to surmount the consequences of his own conduct ? By that standard , is O . J . Simpson a considerable historical figure for surmounting the evidence against him ? Well , yes , he is , in a way . But he isn ' t a hero when he travels to Buffalo . Will the Republicans who stand by the moral and constitutional imperatives be assaulted , in November 2000 , for having kept open the question of Mr . Clinton ' s removal ? But what will the opponents of the GOP incumbents say ? That it just plain does not matter if a president ' s conduct is unforgivable and outrageous and indefensible ? " There were those , " Whittaker Chambers once wrote , " who at the great nightfall , took pains to preserve the tokens of hope and truth . " Republicans apprehensive about the stand they have taken , one suspects , will have much less difficulty than is supposed , when they frame the question to the voters as the question should be framed . And if the marginal voters actually discharge a representative for acting as the majority in the House have acted , that representative can be forgiven if he answers that his separation from presumptive ties with his constituency is a development not only bearable , but welcome . +++ 055651 00001 thermopylae1 - 01 : 03am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55766 ) } 00002 §055652 spinthis - 01 : 04am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55766 ) } 00003 *Greenspan Reacts to GOP Deja-Voodoo Tax Plan . I always find it curious when I read the GOP posts on this forum . They must all be very wealthy folks or else they did not pass 3rd grade math . Exhibit A : 62 Percent of GOP ' s Tax Cut Would Benefit Wealthiest One-Tenth of Taxpayers . This week , Congressional GOP leaders touted their support for an across-the-board 10 percent income tax cut , saying that hard working families need tax relief . But according to an analysis by Citizens for Tax Justice , 62 percent of the proposed GOP tax cuts would go to the wealthiest one-tenth of taxpayers : For taxpayers making less than $38 , 000 -- 60 percent of all taxpayers -- the average tax cut would be less than $99 a year . But for taxpayers making more than $301 , 000 -- only 1 percent of all taxpayers -- the average tax cut would be $20 , 697 a year . [Citizens For Tax Justice Press Release , 1 / 20 / 99] 055653 00001 d-fendr - 01 : 07am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55766 ) } 00002 *A View Into The Logical Mind of > 00003 Spinthis } 00004 *1 ) Richer people make more money , pay a higher tax rate , pay more taxes . 2 ) Too many taxes were paid , we were over charged , hence a surplus . 3 ) Paying back more of the overcharges to those were overcharged more is unfair . Voilá , through the magic of bad logic , liberal media and a gullible uninformed public we have : GOP ' s Tax Cut Would Benefit Wealthiest One-Tenth of Taxpayers 055654 00001 lashlaru1 - 01 : 09am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55766 ) } 00002 *My dear Republicans : Look . . . it ' s simple . The main reason why Monica doesn ' t want to testify is because she will lose some big bucks if she does . If she tells her story now as a senate witness , her planned paid TV interview with Barbara Walters would be dumped . After all , as even the tabloids can tell you , old stories don ' t sell . 055655 00001 d-fendr - 01 : 11am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55766 ) > 00002 lashlaru : } 00003 *Imagine the advances for a book co-authored by Monica and Jane Doe #5 . 055656 00001 collioure1 - 01 : 14am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55766 ) } 00002 *Truth and honesty are not the currency of the Clinton administration ( Chinese money is preferred ) > 00003 thermopylae1 1 / 29 / 99 1 : 03am } 00004 *TWO Clinton votes , Mr . Rosenthal ? Hey , all you ' re looking for now is absolution ! +++ 055657 00001 eaglehill1 - 01 : 14am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55765 ) } 00002 *So the venerable Wm . F . Buckley has finally stated the obvious : The whole thing has become tiresome I quess the rest of the country knew that right along . A game forced on us by yahoo Republican zanies to convince their donors that although they couldn ' t pass Newt ' s Contract , they ' d get the bogeyman . Its politics , not principles . My favorite House Manager : Lindsay Graham- what a gas ! He ' s dopey , yet non-threatening . Dobie Gillis but , sheesh , Mc Collum made me squirm- hope this is his only day in the sun . What a voice . 055658 00001 thermopylae1 - 01 : 14am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55765 ) > 00002 d-fendr 1 / 29 / 99 1 : 11am } 00003 *When ole Webb goes back to the clink he can make a few bucks by selling a gallon of blood to the Canadians . Bill will make the arrangements , just like old times . 055659 00001 d-fendr - 01 : 16am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55765 ) } 00002 *whoa > 00003 Thermo , } 00004 *Tainted Blood . . my , the only problem with investigating Clinton ' s corruption is where to stop . 055660 00001 thermopylae1 - 01 : 17am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55765 ) > 00002 collioure1 1 / 29 / 99 1 : 14am } 00003 *AM Rosnethal , et al , are like the British General who built the Bridge Over the River Kwai . They are finally realizing just what the hell they have done . 055661 00001 vlombardi - 01 : 18am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55765 ) > 00002 lashlaru1 1 / 29 / 99 1 : 09am } 00003 *The main reason why Monica doesn ' t want to testify is because she will lose some big bucks if she does . Not so fast : Monica ' s immunity from prosecution only holds if she tells the truth . Therefore , she can ' t have all kinds of revelations later . . . not in a book and not to Barbara Walters ! 055662 00001 d-fendr - 01 : 18am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55765 ) } 00002 *Speaking of Rep Graham , a view from Chicago . . . Chicago Sun Times 1 / 27 / 99 Dennis Byrne Graham is proving to have one of the clearest minds and most eloquent voices in the Senate chamber , including those hide-bound senators who prattle on about their superior dignity . To those who insist the president didn ' t lie or obstruct justice , Graham asked : Do you really believe the president ' s story that his memory was so poor that he had to ask his secretary twice if he actually had been alone with Monica Lewinsky ? 055663 00001 tatufr1 - 01 : 20am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55765 ) > 00002 Spinner . . . } 00003 * " Bill Clinton is an unusually good liar , unusually good , do you understand ? " ( Kerry , D , Nebraska ) } 00004 *So , your posted attempts to divert attention away from the root of the cancer---your hero Clinton----are failing miserably . Drink the grape kool-aid . Your neutered man ' s toast . But , you have a right to free speech , too . . . just don ' t get so obviously hysterical , OK ? 055664 00001 thermopylae1 - 01 : 22am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55765 ) } 00002 ++ 055665 00001 clsi1 - 01 : 23am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55765 ) > 00002 dfender - } 00003 *It ' s me . . . have you thought about what we discussed ? Each Article has it ' s own standards for " removal " . Legislative - Article 1 , sec . 4 . 2 - The standard and means to expel a Senator or Congressman . Judicial - Article III , sec . 1 , the standard by which a judge can be removed . HHe is removed by the Senate who also confirms him . Executive Article II , sec 4 - The " Impeachment Clause " for the Executive . 055666 00001 lashlaru1 - 01 : 23am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55765 ) } 00002 *My dear Republicans : Wow ! . . . a news story is now breaking about Tom DeLay . . . an allegation that he has committed perjury in a previous dealing . . . stay tuned . Hmnn , isn ' t Larry Flynt about ready to dump doo doo on him and Dick Armey ? Oh my ! . . . when it rains , it pours . 055667 00001 collioure1 - 01 : 23am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55765 ) } 00002 *Truth and honesty are not the currency of the Clinton administration ( Chinese money is preferred ) > 00003 d-fendr - 01 : 18am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( #55662 } 00004 *Yep , fendr , Graham has shined brilliantly throughout this process - clear , independent thinker . Sen Gordon Smith ( R , Ore ) unleashed a good one on the Hardball I am just watching now The Democrats are giving us sex and lies with no videotape ! 055668 00001 thermopylae1 - 01 : 23am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55765 ) } 00002 *And now for the rest of the story . . . " . . . If we were in other countries , we would all right now , all of us together would go down to Washington and we would stone Henry Hyde to death and we ' d go to their homes [of impeachment advocates] and we ' d kill their wives and children . " Currently , media superstar James Carville is the " New " Democrat ' s principal spokesman -- and President Clinton ' s strongest defender . In his own words , Carville is " waging a war of retribution " against all conservative Republicans . In the 18th century , Edmund Burke , the British father of modern conservatism , noted that " for tyranny to prevail simply requires that enough good men do nothing . " Today , I am a constituent of Sen . Joseph Lieberman -- who as a founder of the " New Democrats " also holds himself out to be piously religious . I am disappointed that he ( like Sen . Dodd ) remains smilingly silent and " does nothing " to disassociate himself from those of his , and my , fellow Democrats who have become hate mongers . Is there now no voice among the " New Democrats " that will speak out to denounce the hate-mongering of the likes of Dershowitz , Baldwin and Carville ? Jerome Zeifman served as chief counsel to the House Judiciary Committee during the Nixon impeachment proceedings . A retired lawyer , he is now writing a book titled " Twice in a Lifetime : The impeachments of Richard Nixon and William J . Clinton " about his role in both . 055669 00001 jammerbirdi - 01 : 24am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55765 ) > 00002 d-fendr - 12 : 47am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( #55637 of 55642 ) } 00003 *That ' s all very interesting d . but where did you get this stuff ? How does anyone go back to any of the principles in this to refute or confirm any of this very slanted take on some old information ? Let me ask you : did you follow Bill Clinton around back in Arkansas ? Did you conduct an investigation yourself ? Or did you get this from a publication that can be said to be unfriendly to Bill Clinton ? I was around state and local politics and politicians even as a child , and if there is one thing that has been omni-present in American politics forever it is cronyism ( spelling ? ) . That BC promoted his lover over someone else ( whose qualifications we do not know ) is not a surprise ( unless your viewpoint on politics is from the naive periphery ) nor should it be considered unusual because , believe me , it isn ' t . But what is alarming is that some cretin taped the conversation so that what is commonplace and unpleasant ( like bathroom activities ) can then be revealed for all of us to shudder at . And leave the guy ' s dead mother alone . You ' re better than that . 055670 00001 thermopylae1 - 01 : 25am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55765 ) > 00002 lashlaru1 1 / 29 / 99 1 : 23am } 00003 *You are pathetic . 055671 00001 d-fendr - 01 : 26am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55765 ) > 00002 clsi : } 00003 *Kindly quote for me the section in the constitution that defines the term of office of judges . Kindly quote for me the section in the constitution that defines the criteria for removing a judge before the end of said term of office . 055672 00001 clsi1 - 01 : 27am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55765 ) > 00002 dfendr - } 00003 *I spoke about this with a friend of mine who is a Judge . He concurrs . +++ 055673 00001 thermopylae1 - 01 : 28am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55764 ) } 00002 *THE CLINTON DEFENSE ? E . Telegraph 01 / 22 / 99 Mark Steyn SPEAKING OF LIES : Here ' s my favorite " take " ( so far ) on the White House Defense : By Mark Steyn , London : Consulting my own notes , I find Clinton attorney Greg Craig ' s defiant evisceration of the perjury charge : the President " did not deny he had misled his aides ; he said , in fact , he had misled his aides . So the President wasn ' t lying about telling the truth ; he was telling the truth about lying . If , instead of telling the truth about not telling the truth , he ' d lied about lying , then he wouldn ' t have been telling the truth . " But , just as he ' d got that cleared up , Greg complicated things : " He never said that he told them only true things . " So the President hadn ' t lied when he said he ' d told the truth because , although he lied , he hadn ' t exclusively lied , so therefore he was telling the truth about telling the truth , although he ' d also have been telling the truth if he ' d said he ' d lied , and , although he ' d have been lying if he said he hadn ' t lied , he ' d have been lying if he said he hadn ' t told the truth . 055674 00001 d-fendr - 01 : 29am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55764 ) } 00002 *yes , > 00003 jammerbird , } 00004 *let ' s let John Gotti go . That mobster that helped tape him discussing murdering his opponents was just horrible . 055675 00001 collioure1 - 01 : 31am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55764 ) } 00002 *Truth and honesty are not the currency of the Clinton administration ( Chinese money is preferred ) > 00003 thermopylae1 - 01 : 17am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( #55660 } 00004 *A . M . Rosenthal is a pretty crusty cookie . Tough on crime , Iraq , Palestinians - think he was editor at one time . But anybody who voted for Clinton a second time after all the revelations ( by Woodward , Maraniss . . . ) deserved exatly what they got . They ran the WH like a college fraternity for the first two years . Clinton ' s lack of focus on world affairs was evident to anyone over the age of 5 . . . All the rope-a-dope stuff from the ' 96 campaign . The funny money exposed before election day . . . The lack of direction and soul . 055676 00001 d-fendr - 01 : 31am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55764 ) > 00002 clsi , } 00003 *Then have your judge friend call the senate fast , they ' ve been impeaching judges under Article II Section 4 for almost two centuries . 055677 00001 thermopylae1 - 01 : 32am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55764 ) } 00002 *The infidels have scattered to the four winds , I bid you all goodnight . 055678 00001 carldenis - 01 : 33am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55764 ) } 00002 *Recently , Mr . C has taken to laying his best red carpets to visiting dignitaries , going out of his way to be obsequious . He seems to need foreigners approvals to spin his way into the next two years . As a result of his courting outside votes , budding dictators have shed the lambs clothing and are sporting claws . To wit : The Dom . Rep . and Haiti . Yet , articles are being suppressed , specially about Haiti where Mr . C ' s influence was greatest . Why the blackout ? Another spin ? What kind of undue concessions are being made in exchange for an endorsement by an impeached Prez ? It ' s give and take . Food for thought . What concessions is he granting that he otherwise would have not ? 055679 00001 lelande1 - 01 : 34am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55764 ) } 00002 *For those of you who support Clinton , if you don ' t remember anything , remember this : I ' m an American before I ' m a Republican . And , had the democrats controlled Congress the past six years , we would have had an Imperial President the likes of which we would have never experienced in our short history as a nation . Guess who has the goods on Democrats as well as Republicans ? And , guess who is using it ? The shocker to me is that there are so many people on that payroll . History will undoubtedly prove them to be disloyal to the system we call , The United States of America . These are indeed perilous times . I have heard that the DNC along with the liberal elite in the Democrat Party have come out with a platform that excelerates the march toward socialism . Get the plan and read it . I am curious to know how many of you posters , on this site , agree with the plan . Is it just Republicans ' right to free speach that Clinton supporters want to condemn and eliminate or is it also the American people ' s rights ? Hm ! 055680 00001 collioure1 - 01 : 34am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55764 ) } 00002 *Truth and honesty are not the currency of the Clinton administration ( Chinese money is preferred ) > 00003 thermopylae1 - 01 : 28am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( §§055673 } 00004 *Thanks for clearing that up for us . modifies both words . High crimes and ( high ) misdeeds . . . When a judge has been impeached that is in the generic sence of the word . . like you have been sued . Clearer . . . 055694 00001 dickburke1 - 01 : 49am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55764 ) } 00002 *I was interested in the Libertarian view until I realized 45 million people can ' t get health care in the richest nation . I looked at Democrats until I saw they thought nothing was wrong with 700$ toilet seats . I looked at Republicans until I realized they only wanted small government so they could make the world safe for RePubliCorp , a single monster corporation controlling all prices , and Big Government to determine personal choices , very Big Government . So what is left . . Stalin ? Ho Chi Minh ? Pol Pot ? Clinton the Barr-barian ? I don ' t see any point worshipping office holders . 055695 00001 clsi1 - 01 : 50am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55764 ) } 00002 *It would be really helpful to take 30 minutes and carefully read through the Constitution . 055696 00001 d-fendr - 01 : 52am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55764 ) > 00002 jammerbird , } 00003 *I was just using your logic . Abuse of power isn ' t so bad , what we should really abhor is taping one friends . Even if it ' s a friend that is trying to get you to commit perjury . Just applying your logic . 055697 00001 jammerbirdi - 01 : 55am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55764 ) > 00002 collioure1 - 01 : 43am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( #55688 of 55691 ) } 00003 *Do not forget his statement . " Well then , we ' ll just have to win . " Don ' t forget the source of this alleged statement , that paragon of truth and justice , Dick Morris . It is amazing how you guys hang the stars on the most refutable testimony . Dick Morris ? Really . 055698 00001 d-fendr - 01 : 55am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55764 ) > 00002 clsi , } 00003 *I have . And I appreciate you doing so as well , wish more would . Where we disagree is not that folks should read the constitution , but on what it clearly states . No offense , but I think your conclusions are only possible if you wish a certain outcome , and look for any way to justify it . And , you come up with a very weak logical case . The logical problem with your argument is that there is only one place , one phrase in the constitution that describes the length of office for judges . And it is the one you wish to turn into a constitutional provision for removing judges . There is only one place in the constitution that provides for the removal of all civil officers , including judges , and defines impeachment offenses as Treason , Bribery , and other high Crimes and Misdemeanors . And you wish to create a second one for judges . To have a separate provision for judges to be removed you cite the provision on the length of a judges term . Impeachment is about removing a judge before his term is up . You maintain there are two standards : one for removing judges and one for removing the president . If there were , you could cite it . There is only one . The same one that has been used to remove over a dozen judges . I appreciate your reading and your efforts , but it goes nowhere and was properly abandoned , even by the president ' s lawyers . 055699 00001 collioure1 - 01 : 55am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55764 ) } 00002 *Truth and honesty are not the currency of the Clinton administration ( Chinese money is preferred ) > 00003 dickburke1 - 01 : 49am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( §§055694 } 00004 *REAING COMP BUZZER ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! 45 million can ' t get health care ? WRONG ! DEAD WRONG ! 45 million do not have health care INSURANCE . EVERYONE IN THIS COUNTRY HAS HEALTH CARE EVERYONE ! ! ! ! 055700 00001 tatufr1 - 01 : 55am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55764 ) } 00002 *Eaglehill , about the " voices " of the airwaves . . . my two un-favorites are tied for first place : Lanny Davis ( like fingernails on a chalkboard ) and Greta Van Sustern , O . J . and Clintonapologist-extraordinaire . . . 055701 00001 clsi1 - 01 : 55am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55764 ) } 00002 *Remember folks . . . the house has given up on the perjury charge . Can ' t prove it . So under the Constitution we love he isn ' t a perjurer . They were at deaths door with obstuction because the fact don ' t prove it . . . so lets get more facts . . . so he ' s not an obstructor . . Now he lied about sex with Monica and probably about the same stuff every other President has lied to us about . . . That ' s about it . . . 055702 00001 clsi1 - 01 : 57am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55764 ) } 00002 *Boy is that Health statement an living example of social darwinism . Long Live Marie Antoinette -- Let them eat cake ! ! ! ! ! +++ 055703 00001 collioure1 - 01 : 58am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55764 ) } 00002 *Truth and honesty are not the currency of the Clinton administration ( Chinese money is preferred ) > 00003 jammerbirdi - 01 : 55am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( #55697 } 00004 *I listen to Dick Morris for his unparalleled political wisdom . Miscalled the ' 98 election . Any others ? 055704 00001 carldenis - 01 : 59am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55764 ) } 00002 *ciao ! Sleep is claiming me 055705 00001 collioure1 - 02 : 01am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55764 ) } 00002 *Truth and honesty are not the currency of the Clinton administration ( Chinese money is preferred ) > 00003 clsil } 00004 *Look before you leap , honey . I ' m one of the 45 million without health insurance . Haven ' t had it for 3 years . Wanted it and didn ' t have it for major operation in ' 97 . Once more with feeling Everyone in this country has health care . Everyone ! 055706 00001 d-fendr - 02 : 01am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55764 ) > 00002 clsi , } 00003 *as to exposing both perjury and obstruction in one tight little question , quoting Rep . Graham : " Do you really believe the president ' s story that his memory was so poor that he had to ask his secretary twice if he actually had been alone with Monica Lewinsky ? " 055707 00001 clsi1 - 02 : 02am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55764 ) > 00002 dfndr - } 00003 *A term in any contract may defined my some future action . . i . e . until you don ' t behave good . The word term is actually used in that section . . . a term of good behaviour . . . that is the term . . . . what happens when they don ' t behave good ? The people that appointed them say their term is up . Now , get an emanuel Law Outlines for Constitutional Law . It is used in all Law Schools to actually prepare for exams . They have one for every standard law class one must take ( They also have Blacks ) . I got mine out to make sure I was accurate . . . I really am . . . 055708 00001 collioure1 - 02 : 04am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55764 ) } 00002 *Truth and honesty are not the currency of the Clinton administration ( Chinese money is preferred ) > 00003 clsil } 00004 *The House hasn ' t given up on the perjury charge . The obstruction is and always was the biggie , and it avoids difficult subjects . Don ' t leave so soon . You still could get one right . 055709 00001 collioure1 - 02 : 05am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55764 ) } 00002 *Truth and honesty are not the currency of the Clinton administration ( Chinese money is preferred ) > 00003 clsil } 00004 *You ' re a lawyer-enabler ? 055710 00001 dickburke1 - 02 : 05am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55764 ) } 00002 *I found a long form letter in my mailbox from Linda R . Tripp asking for money . She presents herself as a powerless , victimized whistleblower . I read the whole thing . It seems she cannot pay her legal bills . She still works for the Pentagon but they set up a terminal at home so she doesn ' t have to set foot in the place . She says she can ' t do normal things any more , like go to the store or gas station . She left out reference to book deals etc . Nothing about Goldberg , Foster etc . Just asking for money . She got in over her head and knows it . 055711 00001 clsi1 - 02 : 05am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55764 ) } 00002 *No . . . I think Clinton asked that question primaraly to find out what Betty Curry would say . . . . which isn ' t abstruction . . . . So is it poerjury because he didn ' t say that ? No , can anyone ever prove that he didn ' t also " forget " some things ? Nope . . That is why perjury must really be substanative to stick . . . ex : " I have never seen the murder weapon " . Then we find a sales reciept for the gun in his name and signed by him AND the salesperson says he sold it to him . 055712 00001 jammerbirdi - 02 : 07am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55764 ) > 00002 collioure1 - 01 : 55am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( #55699 of 55701 ) } 00003 *EVERYONE IN THIS COUNTRY HAS HEALTH CARE EVERYONE ! ! ! ! You so obviously are incorrect . There are other forms of health care besides EMERGENCY health care . And free clinics don ' t begin to address the health care of millions of Americans without insurance . And even if you have insurance , the insurance companies ' mismanagement of their customer ' s coverages are fast becoming legend in this country . Can ' t pay for an operation that someone else can , too bad . Just go ahead and DIE ! Wake up , pal . You could be next . +++ 055713 00001 d-fendr - 02 : 08am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55764 ) > 00002 clsi , } 00003 *re your post : } 00004 * " A term in any contract may defined my some future action . . i . e . until you don ' t behave good The word term is actually used in that section . . . a term of good behaviour . . . that is the term . " } 00005 *sorry , but its : " The Judges , both of the supreme and inferior Courts , shall hold their Offices during good Behaviour . . " However , for the president it is : " He shall hold his Office during the Term of four Years . . " so , you got it right , just backwards . : ) 055714 00001 clsi1 - 02 : 09am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55764 ) } 00002 *OK . . . have you been to Appliachia lately ? Watts ? The Huff district in Cleveland ? These areas have an infant mortality rate on par with Senegal . . . No everyone does not have health care , or the understanding when it is needed , or the means to even get to it . . . 055715 00001 collioure1 - 02 : 09am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55764 ) } 00002 *Truth and honesty are not the currency of the Clinton administration ( Chinese money is preferred ) > 00003 clsil } 00004 *Vying for this Forum ' s Naivete Award of the Month ? It ' s amazing how you enablers allow that a guy with a no-fault memory would have so many lapses . Just amazing . 055716 00001 clsi1 - 02 : 10am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55764 ) } 00002 *I stand corrected ! ! Although the result is the same . . . 055717 00001 tatufr1 - 02 : 11am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55764 ) > 00002 Jammerbirdie . . . } 00003 *Love him or hate him , Dick Morris is usually on-target with his predictions of the Emperor With No Clothes moves . . . . 055718 00001 d-fendr - 02 : 11am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55764 ) > 00002 clsi , } 00003 * " I was trying to refresh my memory " is perjury about a crime . Lying about an attempt to coach a witness . Unless of course you really believe that his memory was so poor that he had to ask his secretary twice if he actually had been alone with Monica Lewinsky ? 055719 00001 clsi1 - 02 : 12am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55764 ) } 00002 *The enabler is the Bill of Rights . . . . the accuser must meet it ' s burden of proof . . . for all of us . . . 055720 00001 collioure1 - 02 : 12am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55764 ) } 00002 *Truth and honesty are not the currency of the Clinton administration ( Chinese money is preferred ) > 00003 jammerbirdi } 00004 *Once more with feeling EVERYONE IN THIS COUNTRY HAS HEALTH CARE EVERYONE ! ! ! ! However Skid Row bums probably won ' t be first in line for heart transplants , much as you bleeding hearts would like them to be . 055721 00001 d-fendr - 02 : 13am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55764 ) > 00002 clsi , } 00003 *so you are wrong about it but you are right . You have a future with this administration . : ) 055722 00001 jammerbirdi - 02 : 13am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55764 ) > 00002 d-fendr - 01 : 52am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( §§055696 of 55712 ) } 00003 *jammerbird , Just applying your logic . } 00004 *You ' re obviously much more intelligent than anyone gives you credit for so you needn ' t lower yourself to my level . The logic that you applied was your own . +++ 055723 00001 d-fendr - 02 : 14am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55763 ) } 00002 *And some folks wonder why the house managers keep calling on the senate to have some common sense . . . 055724 00001 clsi1 - 02 : 15am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55763 ) } 00002 *The point is not what one suspects , or even believes . The issue is what one can prove beyond a reasonable doubt . If this meets that threshold for you . . . proof beyond a reasonable doubt . . then thats fine . . . I suspect he wasn ' t being quite so truthful . . . but I can ' t prove it . I wouldn ' t convict you or him on that . . . 055725 00001 dickburke1 - 02 : 16am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55763 ) } 00002 *We yammer about Clinton ' s gonads while accountants determine who lives , who dies . A LAWYER died recently in LA who was covered by Aetna . They denied care and buried him in red tape until he died . His wife sued and won 121 million . Aetna claimed it was unjust . After they killed him . Unjust . But we talk about Clinton ' s gonads . The guy Aetna killed was an attorney with stomach cancer , a fairly young attorney , not a typical HMO victim . Clinton ' s gonads uber alles . 055726 00001 d-fendr - 02 : 17am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55763 ) > 00002 Jammerbird , } 00003 *I quoted an article that used tape recordings of Clinton abusing power , your reply basically was , ' isn ' t it horrible that someone would tape record their phone conversation . ' Your logic : Clinton suborning perjury ? , no problem , Monica suborning perjuy ? no big deal ; it ' s all these folks that record these illegal actions that we should really be wary of . 055727 00001 collioure1 - 02 : 18am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55763 ) } 00002 *Truth and honesty are not the currency of the Clinton administration ( Chinese money is preferred ) > 00003 clsil } 00004 *No , I think the enabler is you , honey . It ' s patently obvious from some of your remarks here this evening . You want the case proven ? Hey , most of the Senators agree that he perjured himself and obstructed justice - and you will eventually hear this voice loud and clear . I hope that ' s enough for you - like 70 or more votes for guilty , censure . . . 055728 00001 tatufr1 - 02 : 18am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55763 ) > 00002 Clsil , } 00003 *most of thinking America refuses to do the mental gymnastics it takes to believe ANYTHING Clinton says . He ' s neutered , he ' s limping to the finish line , and he ' s taking Algore down with him . As the Elizabeth Dole and George W . Bush campaigns get very organized , well- funded , and ready to take on Algore and anyone else the Demos may want to sacrifice in 2000 . . . 055729 00001 clsi1 - 02 : 20am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55763 ) } 00002 *Yes I was right that the term a judge serves is during period of good behaviour . . . the term a President serves is four years . . . Your other comment is somewhat germane . . . I wouldn ' t run but I trying to talk a friend of mine , a former republican judge turned democrat , into running for a retiring republican congressional seat next term . . . who knows . . . 055730 00001 jammerbirdi - 02 : 21am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55763 ) > 00002 tatufr1 - 02 : 11am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( #55717 of 55722 ) } 00003 *Jammerbirdie . . . Love him or hate him , Dick Morris is usually on-target with his predictions of the Emperor With No Clothes moves . . . . } 00004 *I ' m not questioning his ability to predict , just his ability to be credible . I wonder how his wife would rate his truthfullness . Didn ' t he used to converse with his wife in the presence of the call girl ? I wonder how he responded when his wife asked him what he was doing ? Dick Morris is a man of integrity . We can give great credo to his testimony in our efforts to , for the first time in our nation ' s history , remove from office an elected president . You guys are really scary . 055731 00001 collioure1 - 02 : 21am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55763 ) } 00002 *Truth and honesty are not the currency of the Clinton administration ( Chinese money is preferred ) > 00003 dickburke } 00004 *Gee , if only Clintoncare had passed , all our ills would be taken care of . NOT ! This administration implementing Clintoncare ? It ' s a scary thought . They can ' t even keep FBI files where they belong . 055732 00001 d-fendr - 02 : 22am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55763 ) > 00002 clsi , } 00003 *Do you really believe the president ' s story that his memory was so poor that he had to ask his secretary twice if he actually had been alone with Monica Lewinsky ? Twice . Once the day after he had lied in his deposition . The second time after Betty had been subponead as a witness . And both times he tried to ' refresh his memory ' with statements that were lies according to his own later testimony . How does one refresh one ' s memory by repeating facts one knows are false ? To not say this is evidence beyond a reasonable doubt is just not possible , IMHO . +++ 055733 00001 collioure1 - 02 : 25am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55763 ) } 00002 *Truth and honesty are not the currency of the Clinton administration ( Chinese money is preferred ) > 00003 tatufr1 - 01 : 46am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( #55690 } 00004 *What is Clinton so afraid of ? ? ? Same old thing . The truth . 055734 00001 collioure1 - 02 : 27am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55763 ) } 00002 *Truth and honesty are not the currency of the Clinton administration ( Chinese money is preferred ) > 00003 d-fendr - 02 : 22am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( #55732 } 00004 *The WH does not even dispute this part of the record . 055735 00001 clsi1 - 02 : 27am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55763 ) } 00002 *It might be for you . . . now . . . is it impeachable under Article II section 4 ? If so why ? What Supreme Court desicions can you cite that help us understand what a high crime or high misdeed is ? How do we protect ourselves in the future from tyranny of a majority faction that may set out to clandestinly create a way to entrap and evict the political figure of YOUR choice ? 055736 00001 tatufr1 - 02 : 28am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55763 ) > 00002 Csil , } 00003 * " proof beyond a reasonable doubt " is not the threshold to be met by the Senate in this case . It ' s only the spin that the likes of Torricelli ( D , NJ ) wanted to put on the case . } 00004 *Csil , do you really want to keep defending a despicable , mocking , finger-pointing common criminal in the White House ? Come on . Even Gore could play out the next two years better than your Lyin ' King hero . Let ' s get real . 055737 00001 clsi1 - 02 : 30am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55763 ) } 00002 *Look . . . I am not defending Bill Clinton . . . I think he is a fool for ever getting here . . . . I am concerned about our form of governement . . . the Constitutional form Hamilton and Madison so carefully crafted and gave to us . . . 055738 00001 dickburke1 - 02 : 31am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55763 ) > 00002 collioure1 } 00003 *HealthCare is a corporate cash cow . I don ' t know what Clintoncare would have done . We will never find out . The impeachment effort and everything sourcing from it is a smokescreen over healthcare and other on-going criminal enterprises . We wouldn ' t know a real scandal if it ran over us . HMO ' s are organized . The victims get picked off one at a time . We get something interesting to talk about . . Clinton ' s gonads . 055739 00001 d-fendr - 02 : 31am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55763 ) > 00002 Jammerbird , } 00003 *Clinton discussed sending americans into a battleground with a member of congress while his mistress was between his knees . Would you also wonder what he said when the congressman asked him what he was doing ? Would you apply the same standard to Clinton now that you just applied to Morris ? 055740 00001 collioure1 - 02 : 32am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55763 ) } 00002 *Truth and honesty are not the currency of the Clinton administration ( Chinese money is preferred ) > 00003 jammerbirdi } 00004 *Same old thing . Ayone who ' s not on the Clinton team is not a reliable witness / source . A kind of political correctness we ' ve been seeing all along . Dick Morris is a very reliable source in my opinion . But in yours where does he rank with the Blumenthals , Carvilles , Begalas , Lanny Davises and Ann Lewises ? 055741 00001 collioure1 - 02 : 34am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55763 ) } 00002 *Truth and honesty are not the currency of the Clinton administration ( Chinese money is preferred ) Think I ' d better leave now . Posts coming in from Mars . 055742 00001 jammerbirdi - 02 : 35am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55763 ) > 00002 d-fendr - 02 : 22am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( #55732 of 55732 ) } 00003 *People who tape their phone conversations without the knowledge of those on the other line are commiting a far more egregious ( and clear ) violation ( in my book ) than those who YOU ( d-fendr ) choose to convict of the blanket charge of subourning perjury which describes an ambiguous conversation that occurred decades ago . Was the president ever charged in this matter ? Do you not think that the very anal Mr . Starr would have not included this clear-cut to you ( d-fendr ) case of subourning perjury ? +++ 055743 00001 clsi1 - 02 : 35am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55762 ) > 00002 dfendr- } 00003 *I do respect your thoughtfullness and it is possible for reasonable minds to disagree . . . . Good Night . got to sleep . . maybe some one else will logon that fill in as the other side of the ping pong match . . . . 055744 00001 d-fendr - 02 : 36am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55762 ) > 00002 clsi , } 00003 *Your every argument for not convicting and removing Clinton based on the evidence , the law and the constitution has gone down in flames . Yet you still want to keep him in office . You wish the outcome to be : acquit Bill , you work backwards from there to whatever it takes . Constitution , law , evidence , logic , common sense be damned . 055745 00001 d-fendr - 02 : 37am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55762 ) > 00002 clsi , } 00003 *Same here , and I appreciate the civility of your discussion . Til next time . Sleep well . 055746 00001 clsi1 - 02 : 38am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55762 ) } 00002 *If you say so . . . . however . . . have a good day tomorrow anyway . . . Maybe the market will go up again . . . 055747 00001 d-fendr - 02 : 39am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55762 ) } 00002 *LOL > 00003 collioure1 ! 055748 00001 tatufr1 - 02 : 40am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55762 ) > 00002 Clsil . . . } 00003 *so glad to hear that you are not defending The First Crook . Our Constitution is safe , is working , and no election would be overturned if Clinton is removed . Bob Dole won ' t become Prez . Algore will . This is the American way . Nixon was elected twice . Rather than put the nation and himself through an Impeachment trial and trial by the bashing press towards him , he resigned . Much more honorable a man than Clinton could ever dream of being . The Constitution was safe . We got Ford . Then , we voted in Carter . Then we wised-up , and voted in Reagan , the best President in decades . The Constitution is safe , still . 055749 00001 dickburke1 - 02 : 40am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55762 ) } 00002 *Even if Clinton stays in office what can he do ? The enmity between the branches is so thick I fail to see how they can work together to do anything but have endless shoot-outs . 055750 00001 sendero3 - 02 : 43am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55762 ) } 00002 *You may have heard that a good prosecutor can indict a ham sandwich . Starr thinks he can call two pieces of bread a sandwich , and charge it with a lack of taste . 055751 00001 tatufr1 - 02 : 46am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55762 ) } 00002 *Right on , > 00003 Dickburke . . . } 00004 *Clinton would be impotent to get anything done , if he stays in . And the Demos are setting it up this way , if you can believe it . They all could get more done with Algore in . . . but somehow , it is refreshing NOT to have the government legislating our money away , anyway . . . 055752 00001 d-fendr - 02 : 46am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55762 ) } 00002 *well , > 00003 jammerbird , } 00004 *your previous post just illustrates a point you don ' t want to make : Starr only investigated what was authorized by the three judge panel and the AG . Besides , if you start investigating Clinton and follow all the leads , you ' d never stop . You could start with Kendall , go to bimbo affadavits and intimidation , follow that money , slide over to Riady , half owned by chinese defense elite , look at who backed Clinton ' s media blitz , follow over to John Huang , then to the commerce dept , follow over to buddhist temple contributions , follow to Maria , convicted of hiding illegal contributions , look at her lawyer , and you ' ve come full circle back to Betty Currie , then . . well , like I said , that ' s the biggest problem with investigating Clinton ' s corruption : where do you stop ? +++ 055753 00001 sendero3 - 02 : 47am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55762 ) > 00002 dickburke : } 00003 *He can start by having Reno investigate the OIC and their abusive tactics . 055754 00001 d-fendr - 02 : 49am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55762 ) > 00002 well , sender , } 00003 *Starr ' s also got 14 felony convictions - and counting including a sitting governor . Quite a batting record on his indictments , lot ' s of ham sandwich convictions . 055755 00001 jammerbirdi - 02 : 50am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55762 ) > 00002 d-fendr - 02 : 31am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( #55739 of 55743 ) } 00003 *Jammerbird , Clinton discussed sending americans into a battleground with a member of congress while his mistress was between his knees . } 00004 *And he might have thought about doing the same later when he was having a bowel movement . My point is , do we really have to know this ? What does it really mean ? That he doesn ' t take his job or the thought of sending troops into battle seriously ? C ' mon . You can ' t possibly believe that kind of gloop . He ' s the president . He takes his job seriously . He didn ' t have the chick in a closet so he could pull her out whenever it was convenient . He got some head . So what ? He most certainly deserves it . We all do . ( Some more than others . ) " A girl half your age on her knees in front of you : it ' s a good thing . " - Martha Stewart 055756 00001 d-fendr - 02 : 51am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55762 ) } 00002 *given Starr ' s record , I ' d hate to be at the other end of an indictment . 055757 00001 sendero3 - 02 : 53am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55762 ) > 00002 d-fendr : } 00003 *There are no leads and never were . Starr knew it and the Hyde dancers know it . It ' s called trumped up charges . 055758 00001 d-fendr - 02 : 53am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55762 ) > 00002 jammerbird , } 00003 *I would hope to have a president ' s full attention and concentration when my countrymen ' s life is at a stake . I know , that ' s a bit too much to expect from this one . 055759 00001 tatufr1 - 02 : 53am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55762 ) } 00002 *Nighty-nights , all . We inch closer and closer to the truth . Get those spiritual advisors-a-trois over to Billy Jeff fast . Clinton ' s worst nightmare is about to unfold before our eyes : Monica Lewinsky , Sidney , and Vernon in the well of the Senate . You watch . . . Clinton is probably cooking up the most sinister Wag-the- Dog foreign-soil folly , yet . Will it be launched next week , or when Monica actually arrives at the Senate in person the following week ? See you all soon . Take care , all . 055760 00001 d-fendr - 02 : 54am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55762 ) } 00002 *sender , keep telling yourself that . . tell it to the recipients of 14 felony convictions - and counting . . 055761 00001 jammerbirdi - 02 : 55am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55762 ) > 00002 d-fendr - 02 : 46am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( #55752 of 55755 ) } 00003 *well , jammerbird , your previous post just illustrates a point you don ' t want to make : Starr only investigated what was authorized by the three judge panel and the AG . Besides , if you start investigating Clinton and follow all the leads , you ' d never stop . You could start with Kendall , go to bimbo affadavits and intimidation , follow that money , slide over to Riady , half owned by chinese defense elite , look at who backed Clinton ' s media blitz , follow over to John Huang , then to the commerce dept , follow over to buddhist temple contributions , follow to Maria , convicted of hiding illegal contributions , look at her lawyer , and you ' ve come full circle back to Betty Currie , then . . well , like I said , that ' s the biggest problem with investigating Clinton ' s corruption : where do you stop ? I ' ll tell you where to stop , d-fendr . Stop reading the anti-Clinton propoganda and stop watching the right-wing media machine that has filled your mind with boogers about Bill Clinton . And find a girl half your age to ease your boredom . 055762 00001 sendero3 - 02 : 57am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 55762 ) > 00002 d-fendr : } 00003 *The prosecutor here gets $50K a year and does better than that 14 in a *year* ! And he doesn ' t accost and threaten young women , either . 056236 00001 chinagirlz1 - 10 : 50am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 56305 ) > 00002 mikerose2 } 00003 *The RW ' s play up to the small percentage of the population who makes their living solely off of investments . These are not true capitalists . } 00004 *Nah . Bubba isn ' t an investor . Bubba ' s sending all his spare cash to Jerry Falwell , who assures Bubba he can buy his way into heaven , he doesn ' t have to earn it . 056282 00001 amspec - 11 : 21am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 56313 ) > 00002 willy - g : } 00003 *You just trashed the otherwise sub-par reputation of scum everywhere . } 00004 *REPLY : I got a good laugh at your response , thanks . I didn`t have much time to write a post but wanted to log in quickly on my regard for the idiot in the white house and ' Bill Clinton is scum ' , seemed to encapsulate the feeling that most ' real ' americans have for him . Thanks to all who defined the word for me ! Have a good weekend to all my right-wing , mean-spirited , elderly hating , milk-robbing , religious zealots , who wish to imposes a facist , white , christian , regime on all . ( smile . ) 056314 00001 gregk13 - 11 : 45am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 56394 ) > 00002 amspec , } 00003 *Re : " gregk13 : Please , oh great sage , provide us with your definition of bipartisan . And if you could , indicate which , if any , of the articles received a bipartisan vote . " } 00004 *I guess bi-partisan is anything you wish it to be . For me , it ' s not two or three folks out of hundreds changing sides that make it bi-partisan . It ' s a disingenuous arguement . For example , you can say Feingold ' s crossover vote the other day made the dismissal vote lost by the Dems bipartisan . One out of 45 . A pretty trifling and desparate way to describe bi-partisan . The same went for the articel votes in the House . You can use bi-partisan , but you know it ' s a crock and you know you ' re just spinning . If you really believe it then I have a bridge for sale . 056315 00001 magnificent77d - 11 : 45am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 56394 ) } 00002 *All the experts agree with Sir Winston Churchill ; If you are not a liberal by age 19 , you have no heart . If you are not conservative by age 45 , you have no brain . 056316 00001 vrwcarea51e - 11 : 46am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 56394 ) } 00002 *The President has kept all the Promises he Intends to keep ! macer235 - 11 : 40am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( #56308 of 56308 ) } 00003 *vrwcarea51 : You , Vegetius , garrisonsound1 all have that " whistling in the dark " aura that reminds me so much of the l964 electoral campaign following Barry Goldwater ' s , " Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice " acceptance speech . " } 00004 *The parallels are eerie . Coming soon to a poll near you : Dies Irae . ABANDON SHIP ! VOTE ANTI-REPUBLICAN PUNISH THE INQUISITION . For a point of reference check out Zogby ' s latest polls . . . Republican Base still supports Removal INDEPENDANTS BLAME WHITE HOUSE Now look in that crystal ball and tell me how many of those Independent Voters will Support Al ( Bill ' s MY MAN ) Gore in 2000 ? 056317 00001 mercenary4 - 11 : 46am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 56394 ) > 00002 collocate : } 00003 *It ' s one thing to duck my questions because you ' re a craven Clinton supporter ( a redundancy ) who , like donkirk , adaplant and a few others like to quote the Constitution and judicial opinions but haven ' t the slightest idea what they ' re saying , it ' s quite another to do so by throwing softballs such as the following in response : " . . . why did the Republican Hypocrites quash a censure effort in the House on the ground that the Constitution is ( arguably ) SILENT with respect to censure , and yet they are now debating SEPARATE votes on Guilt and Removal in PLAIN DEFIANCE of the EXPRESS WORDS of the Constitution ? " First of all , you ' re confusing the House of Representatives , which voted down a censure resolution , with the Senate , which is contemplating separate votes on the facts and removal . The House has the sole power to impeach the President , the Senate has the sole power to try the President . In other words , the Republicans in the House are NOT NOW contemplating the separate votes , so they are not hypocrites . It appears you don ' t only need to learn how to read , but to write as well . Second of all , the Republicans doing this are wrong . There . Now , enough of your Clinton-like , cowardly attempts at avoiding MY question regarding YOUR use of the Marshall quote . Please inform the rest of us as to when Bill Clinton will be subject to the voters ' judgment at the polls for his second-term misdeeds and where perjury and obstruction of justice are classified by Marshall as political acts . Take your time . 056318 00001 patrickjquinn - 11 : 46am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 56394 ) } 00002 * " Bipartisan " to the Liberal / Democrats means that the GOP give in to the wishes of the Democrats . " Fair " is what the Liberal / Democrat defines it to be . And the National Media says , . . . whatever the Liberal / Democrats say ! Ahhhh , . . . ain ' t America great ? 056319 00001 bobby551 - 11 : 47am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 56394 ) > 00002 macer235 : } 00003 *A little off the topic , but the ' 64 election you mentioned was a stunning example of the perpetual moral bankrupcy of both parties . My favorite quote on that election comes from Gore Vidal , who said , " The last time I voted was in 1964 . I voted for the peace candidate . Lyndon Johnson . " I spent a year in the jungle in ' 68 under that regime , and then voted for the other peace candidate , Richard Nixon . The war intensified , and I ' m grateful to be alive . Now I ' m a registered Independent . 056320 00001 magnificent77d - 11 : 48am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 56394 ) } 00002 *Bi- partisanship is the code word for National Socialism . ( Nazi Party ) 056321 00001 k0cxc0 - 11 : 48am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 56394 ) } 00002 * " A government that is big enough to give you everything you want is also big enough to take everything you have . " Ronald Reagan > 00003 lucky085 , } 00004 *With that kind of babble , I KNOW I ' M BETTER THAN YOU ! 056322 00001 mikerose2 - 11 : 48am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 56394 ) } 00002 *I agree with you that there is a natural arostocracy among men . The grounds for this are virtue and talents . Formerly bodily powers gave place among the aristoi . But since the invention of gunpowder has armed the weak as well as the strong with missle death , bodily strength , like beauty , good humor , politeness and other accomplishments , has become but an auxiliary ground of distinction and accomplishment . - T . Jefferson , Oct 28 , 1813 056323 00001 sun_tzu2 - 11 : 49am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 56394 ) > 00002 lucky085 } 00003 *Reno and a panel of three appellate judges would disagree with your statement that the Independent Counsel exceeded the scope of its authority when Mr . Starr investigated allegations of Presidential perjury and obstruction of justice . The U . S . Supreme Court respectfully disagrees with arguments that Paula Jones should not have been allowed to bring her civil rights action against the President . Is everyone part of the conspiracy ? Perhaps this is a plot to get Gore in for a ten year term of service ! +++ 056324 00001 bayamon2000 - 11 : 49am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 56390 ) } 00002 *The only person responsible for this " Mess " is William Jefferson Clinton , . . no one else but WJC . Ken Starr , Monica , Tripp , and everyone else involved are not at fault . The only person to blame is the one who said : " Listen to me , . . . I did not have sexual relations with that woman , Miss Lewinski " I agree with one recent post : " Clinton is scum " . 056325 00001 gregk13 - 11 : 51am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 56390 ) > 00002 Ada and > 00003 macer 235 } 00004 *From : } 00005 * " sun_tzu2 - 11 : 44am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( §§056312 of 56316 ) } 00006 * tna1pada3 & macer 235 Do you believe a President who commits perjury and obstruction of justice should be removed ? ( We will discuss the facts of this particular case later . I just want to know where to start ) . " } 00007 *Okay class now pay attention and I will get back to you later . Sheesh . ( LOL ) Don ' t you just love this forum ? ? 056326 00001 magnificent77d - 11 : 53am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 56390 ) } 00002 *BABSY SPEAKS ! " I have to say , as one U . S . Senator who is going to vote on how to dispose of this matter in a fair and just fashion to all concerned , I do not want to base my vote on a stack of papers . " That ' s what Sen . Barbara Boxer ( D . , Calif . ) said about deposing witnesses--in the Packwood case in 1995 . 056327 00001 mercenary4 - 11 : 54am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 56390 ) } 00002 *I have an alternate plan for saving Social Security : Pull the plug on the retiring babyboomers who support Bill Clinton . They ' re all brain dead , anyway . 056328 00001 willy-g- - 11 : 54am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 56390 ) } 00002 *Bill Flinton- You are impeached ( cheers ! ) , 76% think you will be remembered for corruption . You are ruined ! 056329 00001 tmocars - 11 : 55am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 56390 ) > 00002 gregk } 00003 *You ' re forgetting that the sheep will say " of course , a president should be removed for perjury ond ooj , but not THIS president . " 056330 00001 gregk13 - 11 : 55am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 56390 ) > 00002 sun_tzu2 , } 00003 *Re : " lucky085 Reno and a panel of three appellate judges would disagree with your statement that the Independent Counsel exceeded the scope of its authority when Mr . Starr investigated allegations of Presidential perjury and obstruction of justice . " } 00004 *Bawahahahahahahahaaaaaa ! ! ! ! ! ! } 00005 *RE : " The U . S . Supreme Court respectfully disagrees with arguments that Paula Jones should not have been allowed to bring her civil rights action against the President . " } 00006 *Bawahahahahahahahaaaaaa ! ! ! ! ! ! } 00007 *RE : " Is everyone part of the conspiracy ? Perhaps this is a plot to get Gore in for a ten year term of service ! " } 00008 *Yes . Especially that Blumenthal guy . 056331 00001 willy-g- - 11 : 55am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 56390 ) } 00002 *Bill Flinton- You are impeached ( cheers ! ) , 76% think you will be remembered for corruption . You are ruined ! As far as the GOP is concerned , I believe the right move is to depose the witnsses and release the tapes . If it has the same outcome as releasing the impeached presidents grand jury testimony , the democrats should be happy . Although many believe that releasing the g / j testimony was a bad move , I was glad to see Clinton exposed as the rat that he is and I believe that while it may have polarized the democrats , they too were able to see what an utter disgrace this impeached president is . I think it also leads to public apathy towards Clinton , meaning that after they saw his testimony the public may not want him removed but they sure weren`t going to take to the streets to defend him . I find it interesting that the democrats , led by Tom Harkin , fought for OPEN proceedures , and now are scared to death that these tapes will be released . It boils down to this : the rats know he is guilty and are doing everything they can to avoid evidence that COMPELLS them to do their job . They want so badly to censure him to avoid the appearence of covering for him . If the rats refuse to do their job by removing him , the GOP should not proceed with censure because it is unconstitutional , the matter should simply be settled by a vote up or down . Let the rats scramble to censure him , that along with the house impeachement will be regarded as a bipartisian rebuke on a sorry , disgraceful , and corrupt president and it will ensure his place in history as a failed and shamed president . The democrats don`t know it yet but they have a major problem in 2000 . 056332 00001 patrickjquinn - 11 : 55am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 56390 ) > 00002 macer , } 00003 *What do YOU know of the ' 64 presidential election or the factors that contributed to the outcome ? H&ll , I ' ll bet you weren ' t even alive yet ! So please , spare us your " expert " analysis , . . . won ' t you ? 056333 00001 lucky085 - 11 : 57am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 56390 ) } 00002 *Repuglican epitaph : WE ARE RIGHT BECAUSE WE ' RE BETTER THAN YOU k0cxc0 You need to get a new handle that is not jumbled up like your brain . +++ 056334 00001 spdave - 11 : 58am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 56390 ) } 00002 *Now that the Republicans have proven their partisan priorities , it is logical that the whole process has been so from the start ( the appointment of Starr ) . And since that is obviously the case , all attempts to " get this President " have been done illegally - witness testamonies , if not favorable to Starr , they get threatened and some case have gone to jail . These tactics are similar to the reports coming out lately about snitches , children , mothers , whoever being tricked into saying what they have to appease the prosecution , even when they don ' t really agree with what they have been pressured to testify . Shame on these policies sponsored by the tag-team Senator and House manager interviewed on the PBS Fronline show , " SNITCH " . No wonder the South and Midwest bemoan the government . The root of all " evil " here seems to stem from the Christians in charge who are sitting back watching this happen to our Republic without speaking out about its injustice . This trial against Clinton is just such an injustice . 056335 00001 magnificent77d - 11 : 58am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 56390 ) } 00002 *THE DEMOCRATIC BILLIONAIRE REALLY BELIEVES . . . Sen . John Kerry ( D . , Mass . ) : " It may help [the defendant] to have some of these people asked questions publicly , to have the full measure of these accusations judged by the American people , not off paper that everybody knows they will never read , but in the full light of day . That is what this is really about . Staff doing a deposition is not a Senator asking a question within public scrutiny of the hearing process . " 056336 00001 mikecleo - 11 : 58am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 56390 ) > 00002 vrwcare51e } 00003 *Learn to spell before you post your next diatribe ! It ' s hard to follow your " logic " when every other word is indecipherable . The closer WJC gets beating this bum rap the more strident your posts become . He ' s going to finish his term---DEAL WITH IT ! I have this vision of you sitting in front of your computer foaming at the mouth while you " compose " your posts . 056337 00001 bobby551 - 11 : 59am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 56390 ) } 00002 *The best plan to save Social Security is to take it off budget so both parties will stop supplementing the general fund with tens of billions of dollars of FICA money every year . 056338 00001 tna1pada3 - 11 : 59am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 56390 ) } 00002 * " It ain ' t over til it ' s over " > 00003 sun_tzu2 1 / 29 / 99 11 : 44am } 00004 *I think the president should only be removed upon conviction of " treason , bribery or other high crimes and misdemeanors " against the state . Whether any particular allegation against the president meets that standard depends upon a number of factors . The decision is too important in impeachment , removal of an elected president serving a fixed term , to reduce it to any simplistic formulaic approach . While allegations of perjury and obstruction of justice may justify removal in some instances , depending , inter alia , upon the context out of which the alleged behavior arose , such allegations would not always or necessarily justify conviction and removal . 056339 00001 magnificent77d - 11 : 59am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 56390 ) } 00002 *LIEBERMAN AGREES WITH KERRY ! ! ! ! Sen . Joseph Lieberman ( D . , Conn . ) : " I believe that I , as one Senator , will not be able to reach the kind of informed decision that I want to reach on the serious allegations that have been made . . . without the benefit of testimony from the witnesses live . . . subject to examination [by both sides] . " 056340 00001 gregk13 - 12 : 00pm Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 56390 ) > 00002 tmocars , } 00003 *RE : gregk You ' re forgetting that the sheep will say " of course , a president should be removed for perjury ond ooj , but not THIS president . " } 00004 *So now you know talking sheep ? We ' re suppose to take you seriously ? 056350 00001 royal_coachman - 12 : 06pm Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 56388 ) } 00002 *Since this impeachment thing is about over , what are we going to talk about next ? 056351 00001 bobby551 - 12 : 07pm Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 56388 ) } 00002 *Benjamen Ladner , President of American University in today ' s Washington Post : " In the end , the president is daring the country to affirm , by a formal act of Congress , that the moral demands inherent in the office of the president are higher than the man who holds the office . Relying upon his personal popularity and charisma to blur the delicate but vital connection between the person and the office , he ' s betting we will not risk such an affirmation , on the penalty of losing him . Indeed , there is a strong chance that we will fail to hear the echoes of the values and aspirations embodied symbodically in this singular office since , alas , they no longer resonate through him personally . " 056352 00001 socfbc1 - 12 : 07pm Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 56388 ) } 00002 *For the RWers , all crimes are impeachable , if committed by BC . Raygun could have murdered the pope and they would have looked the other way . > 00003 lucky085 1 / 29 / 99 12 : 04pm } 00004 *And you libs would still be screaming " it ' s about sex " if BC had boinked the Pope . 056353 00001 mikerose2 - 12 : 07pm Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 56388 ) } 00002 *I agree with you that there is a natural arostocracy among men . The grounds for this are virtue and talents . Formerly bodily powers gave place among the aristoi . But since the invention of gunpowder has armed the weak as well as the strong with missle death , bodily strength , like beauty , good humor , politeness and other accomplishments , has become but an auxiliary ground of distinction and accomplishment . - T . Jefferson , Oct 28 , 1813 > 00003 Vegetius - 11 : 02am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( #56257 of 56325 ) } 00004 *mikerose2 - 10 : 57am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( #56248 of 56249 ) Mr . educated , You know any conservatives ? People who spent their lives in education should know better than that last weak effort of yours . Perhaps if you did not spend all your time with career students you would not make such asinine observation of people you never interect with other than in books . Good luck this semester . } 00005 *uh , veggie , I spend zero time with career students . Another sign of your lack of knowledge doing nothing to hamper your complete certainty -- if more examples of either were needed . +++ 056354 00001 gregk13 - 12 : 07pm Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 56386 ) > 00002 sun_tzu2 , } 00003 * RE : " gregk13 Sorry , I had assumed we could find some common ground to discuss this issue . " } 00004 *It becomes quite difficult to find common ground when you have already identified and labled folks . And to assume can bring about uncomfortable consequences . } 00005 *RE : " However , again , my hopes to engage in rational discourse with Clinton defenders such as yourself are dashed . " } 00006 *See what I mean ? You ' ve concluded that I am a Clinton defender . 056355 00001 johnsixtysix - 12 : 08pm Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 56386 ) } 00002 * " Closing ranks along party lines , Senate Republicans Thursday forced through a plan to finish President Clinton ' s impeachment trial that opens the door for Monica S . Lewinsky , or her videotaped image , to appear before the Senate . " NYTimes So there you have it ! And as long as it STAYS along party lines , they ' ll never have a chance ! Really , it ' s not a vote between Republicans and Democrats . It ' s really a vote between the Moralists and the Pragmatists . Moralism has to be maintained and MUST have a two-thirds majority to pass , while pragmatism just needs to defend itself and is maintenance free ! The framers of the United States Constitution wanted an impeachment process that could withstand changes in moral values . To say otherwise would have been like saying that the framers didn ' t expect ANY changes in moral values , and that is preposterous ! 056356 00001 sapka - 12 : 08pm Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 56386 ) } 00002 *A third presidential term for Bill Clinton ! Long live our beloved President ! 056357 00001 thepeanut - 12 : 09pm Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 56386 ) } 00002 * " Ahhhh , . . . ain ' t America great ? " Yes , as long as the conservative christian wing of the republicans is kept in check . 056358 00001 gregk13 - 12 : 10pm Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 56386 ) } 00002 *Hey > 00003 Vast , } 00004 *How ya been ? 056359 00001 socfbc1 - 12 : 11pm Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 56386 ) } 00002 *Dies Irae , dies illa solvet saeclum in favilla , teste David cum Sybilla . Quantus tremor est futurus , quando judex est venturus , cuncta stricte discussurus . > 00003 tlkaminski 1 / 29 / 99 12 : 06pm } 00004 *Whattay thetay hellay issay thissay crappay ? 056360 00001 vastrwc - 12 : 11pm Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 56386 ) } 00002 * " He came in here and he trashed the place , " says Washington Post columnist David Broder , " and it ' s not his place . " I see the usual sniveling about the Republicans being so partisan . Incompetent , yes . But partisan , I don ' t think so . Yesterday the Senate leadership spent the entire day trying to come to agreement with the Democrats on how to depose witnesses . The starting point in the negotiations included compromises to appease the Democrats . Democrats couldn ' t agree so it was taken to the floor for a vote . Majority wins when that happens right ? Well what do the Republicans do , knowing they won ' t get any support from the Democrats anyway ? They vote on the same motion that included the compromises , and at the last minute even added language requested by Daschle . Then all the Dems voted against it anyway . My question : If you know all the Democrats are going to vote against you anyway , why put any language in the motion to accomodate them ? Come on Trent , get with the program . 056361 00001 bayamon2000 - 12 : 14pm Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 56386 ) } 00002 *A great story for those supporting more social programs to " assist " the " POOR " . Yersterday while waiting in line at a 7 / 11 store , there were three kids in front of me , each holding in their little hands one piece of candy valued at $0 . 01 . Each kid paid individualy for the candy with a $1 . 00 food stamp . Each received approximatelly 95 cents in change . After leaving the store , they got into a 1998 Toyota Camry . The adult occupant in the car ( I assume she was the kid ' s mother ) got the change from the kids , entered the store and purshased a pack of Marlboros . Is America great or what ! ! ! ! What did I do ? ? I got a little upset , got into my 88 Honda Civic and drove off to my $6 . 00 an hour job . These abuses of the system occur everyday all over the country . Keep supporting the " Parasites " ! ! But hey ! This is America ! ! ! ! ! Right ? 056362 00001 ayorra - 12 : 15pm Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 56386 ) } 00002 *Guess there is no one in the entire Hemispherewho does not know that Clinton lied about hisliaison with Monica . He lied to country , family , public , associates , friends . U name it . But , lying is not necessarily perjury . No one , especially Starr or the House , has yet proven Clinton committed perjury . Speculation ( which constitutes 99 . 9% of the case ) is not a substitute for proof . No one can prove perjury in a court room unless theyestablish , beyond reasonable doubt , the accused knew he was lying . If he , in good conscience , felt he did not lie , he cannot be convicted of perjury . That is where we aretoday . Since the obstruction of justice chargeis ridiculous beyond imagination ( any futurepresident could not lie to friends or associates w / o exposing himself to the prospect of impeachment ) , Clinton is not guilty of any provable crime . The country , injustice and compassion owe all the Clintonsan apology for our rush to judgement and for dragging their name , reputation , and integrity thru the mud these last 5years . Remember ! Starr couldn ' t find evidence of Clinton wrongdoing . And it sure wasn ' t for lack of trying . 056363 00001 dickmorr - 12 : 15pm Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 56386 ) > 00002 milkerose and > 00003 donkirk : } 00004 *As I said , you two , and the rest of America have been brainwashed by the White House on numerous matters . If you are young , it will come back and haunt you when you are ready for retirement . Even Allan Greenspan noted in testimony yesterday that there were huge problems with the President ' s plan for Social Security reform . The biggest issue is , who really knows where this economy will turn three to ten years don the road ? The second one is that the White House must not play the shell game with the American public and tell the truth for a change . You just keep believing the White House spin and you will be in deep trouble - on a lot of matters . +++ 056364 00001 socfbc1 - 12 : 15pm Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 56383 ) } 00002 *A third presidential term for Bill Clinton ! > 00003 sapka 1 / 29 / 99 12 : 08pm } 00004 *Why stop there - let ' s make him the Suprene Ruler of All He Surveys for All Perpetutity . Yeah , I could go for that - or we could just throw the bum out . 056365 00001 lucky085 - 12 : 16pm Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 56383 ) } 00002 *Repuglican epitaph : WE ARE RIGHT BECAUSE WE ' RE BETTER THAN YOU > 00003 halfvastrwc } 00004 * " Incompetent , yes . " } 00005 *At least you said one thing correctly . Since witnesses are a complete waste of time and money , the repugs cannot be called thrifty either . 056366 00001 sun_tzu2 - 12 : 18pm Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 56383 ) > 00002 tna1pada3 } 00003 *Your answer does you no justice . An answer of " it depends " on whether a President should be removed for perjury and obstruction of justice is deplorable . I assume you are saying that , if the lies and obstruction are regarding some trivial matter , then the lies and obstruction of justice is , well , justified . Tell me counselor , how does anyone , particularly the DEFENDANT , know a priori what is worthy of the truth ? That is , that the subject matter is material or , in layman ' s terms , " important " ? The U . S . Supreme Court ruled that Ms . Jones may bring her civil rights action against the President . If questions during that testimony were irrelevant ( " unimportant " or overly prejudicial ) , the President could have and should have made the argument . The President and his defense team are no Babes in the Courtroom . So please , don ' t say that truthful testimony is optional in court if the Defendant believes the subject matter isn ' t " important " or is " trivial . " Both Plaintiffs and Defendants deserve truthful testimony . Indeed , our system of justice depends upon it . 056367 00001 louis134 - 12 : 19pm Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 56383 ) } 00002 *REPUBLICAN BEHAVIOR IN THE IMPEACHMENT TRAIL IS TYPICAL REPUBLICAN BEHAVIOR MARKED BY PARTISANSHIP , POLITICAL BULLYING , HYPOCROSY AND CATERING TO EXTREME MINORITIES AND THE EXPENSE OF THE MAJORITY FOR WHICH THEY DO NOTHING : The Republicans take over the House and Senate in a stunning victory heralding a new conservative era . The contract with America follows then the Republicans go back to being what they always were and will be : 1 : They shut down the government 2 : They do all they can to make sure there in no campaign finance reform even though it corrupts the system 3 : They do nothing to reform and improve health care thumbing their noses at the more than 40 million uninsured Americans 4 : They let the tobacco companies pick up and walk away from negotitians over monetary damages for the extraordinaty and wilfull public harm they caused-5 : They decide to do nothing about education 6 : They decide to side with a small lobbying group called the NRA and oppose even minimal control on assault and automatic weapons 7 : They insist on a capital gains tax cut to stimulate investment even while people are putting record amounts of dollars into the stock markets 8 : They ignore the enviroment despite the dire signs that global warming and ozone layer depletion are progressing and threaten an enviromental dispaster 9 : In the House they proceed to impeach a President at the behest of an extreme coalition of christian coalition zealots in a procees that will take more than a year for a relatively minor crime ; in the House they actually stand up and applaud the partisan prosecutor whose involvement in setting up the President in a prejury trap slowly comes to light . Again , the government nearly is , for all intents and purposes , shut down . 10 : They prolong the process to try and do as much damage as they can to the President and say that opinion polls showing the people are against it are irrelevant . 11 : To avoid embarrasment , they hold important meetings in Senate regarding the fate of a popularly elected President BEHIND CLOSED DOORS from which they emerge and then vote on partisan lines to call witnesses to clarify minor details--witnesses who have been questioned time and time again by professional prosecutors WHATEVER CLINTON HAS DONE , IT PALES IN COMPARISON TO THE RECORD OF THIS PARTY WHO HAS DONE MORE TO CREATE DIVISION THAN CLINTON ' S ENCOUNTER WITH LEWINSKY COULD EVER HAVE . THIS IS TYPE OF COUP D ' ETAT BY A GROUP OF REPUBLICANS WHO REPRESENT AN EXTREME MINORITY WHO DISDAINS THE PEOPLE OF OUR COUNTRY AND WANT TO EXERT AS MUCH CONTROL AS THEY CAN . END THE IMPEACHMENT AND VOTE THE REPUBLICANS OUT . I CAN ' T BELIEVE I EVER CONTEMPLATED VOTED FOR ONE . 056368 00001 mikerose2 - 12 : 21pm Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 56383 ) } 00002 *I agree with you that there is a natural arostocracy among men . The grounds for this are virtue and talents . Formerly bodily powers gave place among the aristoi . But since the invention of gunpowder has armed the weak as well as the strong with missle death , bodily strength , like beauty , good humor , politeness and other accomplishments , has become but an auxiliary ground of distinction and accomplishment . - T . Jefferson , Oct 28 , 1813 > 00003 gregk13 - 11 : 23am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( #56284 of 56348 ) } 00004 *mikerose2 RE : " chertx - 10 : 39am Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( §§056214 of 56260 ) Just one more example of the LCD in effect , folks . . . . . " Did you mean LSD in effect ? ? Seems more plausible 00004 *Since when are witnesses a waste of time ? 056370 00001 d-generationx1 - 12 : 22pm Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 56383 ) > 00002 bayamon2000 wrote } 00003 * " Yersterday while waiting in line at a 7 / 11 store , there were three kids in front of me , each holding in their little hands one piece of candy valued at $0 . 01 . Each kid paid individualy for the candy with a $1 . 00 food stamp . Each received approximatelly 95 cents in change . After leaving the store , they got into a 1998 Toyota Camry . The adult occupant in the car ( I assume she was the kid ' s mother ) got the change from the kids , entered the store and purshased a pack of Marlboros . " Vyou can thank the Democrats for that ! ! ! The Democrats love , and live , to support those who will not support themselves . +++ 056371 00001 vastrwc - 12 : 24pm Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 56378 ) } 00002 * " He came in here and he trashed the place , " says Washington Post columnist David Broder , " and it ' s not his place . " > 00003 gregk13 1 / 29 / 99 12 : 10pm } 00004 *Hi Greg . Well I ' ve been doing pretty good , thankyou . Been getting a lot of productive work done instead of fooling around on this silly forum . But just can ' t resist popping off now and then . Good to see your still here banging away . It never concerned me too much before , because it was expected . But Byrd ' s motion to dismiss the trial really bothers me now . It seems that ever since that happened the Democrats have laid down the line that the trial is over and they don ' t intend to see the process through in a fair manner . It just seems to me that until both sides rest their cases , we should listen to what they have to say as long as they stay on the topic . 056372 00001 dmblum - 12 : 24pm Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 56378 ) > 00002 bayamon2000 : } 00003 *I hear a lot of conservatives complain of " class warfare " . Yet , if one carefully checked this thread , one would mainly find right wingers complaining about the oh so luxurious lives those who receive food stamps lead . Now , these observations are based in bitter anecdotal commments that have no basis whatever in fact , but the gist is this : conservatives hate poor people because they ' re lazy . What you ' re missing is that 30 million poor people in this country work hard , wash your dishes , mow your lawns , and sell you crap at the 7-11 , and can ' t afford health insurance to make sure the children receive proper medical care . 056373 00001 louis134 - 12 : 24pm Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 56378 ) } 00002 *REPUBLICAN BEHAVIOR IN THE IMPEACHMENT TRAIL IS TYPICAL REPUBLICAN BEHAVIOR MARKED BY PARTISANSHIP , POLITICAL BULLYING , HYPOCROSY AND CATERING TO EXTREME MINORITIES AND THE EXPENSE OF THE MAJORITY FOR WHICH THEY DO NOTHING : The Republicans take over the House and Senate in a stunning victory heralding a new conservative era . The contract with America follows then the Republicans go back to being what they always were and will be : 1 : They shut down the government 2 : They do all they can to make sure there in no campaign finance reform even though it corrupts the system 3 : They do nothing to reform and improve health care thumbing their noses at the more than 40 million uninsured Americans 4 : They let the tobacco companies pick up and walk away from negotitians over monetary damages for the extraordinaty and wilfull public harm they caused-5 : They decide to do nothing about education 6 : They decide to side with a small lobbying group called the NRA and oppose even minimal control on assault and automatic weapons 7 : They insist on a capital gains tax cut to stimulate investment even while people are putting record amounts of dollars into the stock markets 8 : They ignore the enviroment despite the dire signs that global warming and ozone layer depletion are progressing and threaten an enviromental dispaster 9 : In the House they proceed to impeach a President at the behest of an extreme coalition of christian coalition zealots in a procees that will take more than a year for a relatively minor crime ; in the House they actually stand up and applaud the partisan prosecutor whose involvement in setting up the President in a prejury trap slowly comes to light . Again , the government nearly is , for all intents and purposes , shut down . 10 : They prolong the process to try and do as much damage as they can to the President and say that opinion polls showing the people are against it are irrelevant . 11 : To avoid embarrasment , they hold important meetings in Senate regarding the fate of a popularly elected President BEHIND CLOSED DOORS from which they emerge and then vote on partisan lines to call witnesses to clarify minor details--witnesses who have been questioned time and time again by professional prosecutors WHATEVER CLINTON HAS DONE , IT PALES IN COMPARISON TO THE RECORD OF THIS PARTY WHO HAS DONE MORE TO CREATE DIVISION THAN CLINTON ' S ENCOUNTER WITH LEWINSKY COULD EVER HAVE . THIS IS TYPE OF COUP D ' ETAT BY A GROUP OF REPUBLICANS WHO REPRESENT AN EXTREME MINORITY WHO DISDAINS THE PEOPLE OF OUR COUNTRY AND WANT TO EXERT AS MUCH CONTROL AS THEY CAN . END THE IMPEACHMENT AND VOTE THE REPUBLICANS OUT . I CAN ' T BELIEVE I EVER CONTEMPLATED VOTED FOR ONE . 056374 00001 tlkaminski - 12 : 27pm Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 56378 ) > 00002 socfbc1 , } 00003 * " Dies Irae , dies illa solvet saeclum in favilla , teste David cum Sybilla . Quantus tremor est futurus , quando judex est venturus , cuncta stricte discussurus . " " Whattay thetay hellay issay thissay crappay ? " } 00004 *Hah ! It ' s from Mozart ' s Requiem . The translation I have is : " The day of wrath , that day of grief shall change the world to glowing ash , as David and Sibyl tell . How great a quaking shall there be , when on that day the judge shall come , to weigh man ' s deeds in each detail . " 056375 00001 lucky085 - 12 : 27pm Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 56378 ) } 00002 *Repuglican epitaph : WE ARE RIGHT BECAUSE WE ' RE BETTER THAN YOU Ken STarr should be prosecuted and convicted for a multitude of crimes . Putting us thru night after night of Chris Matthews is crime enough . 056376 00001 gregk13 - 12 : 30pm Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 56378 ) } 00002 *Hey > 00003 Vast , } 00004 *How ya been ? 056377 00001 bobby551 - 12 : 30pm Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 56378 ) } 00002 *Clinton at yesterday ' s memorial service for Lawton Chiles : " He ( Chiles ) just didn ' t want everybody to have to spend all their time raising money . . . He didn ' t go around telling you how much better he was than everybody else because he only took $100 . " The Washington Post suggests this was a cheap shot at Russell Feingold , the only Democratic Senator who voted with the Republicans . Feingold sponsored with John McCain the unsuccessful effort at campaign finance reform , part of which would limit contributions to $100 or less . Who but WJC would use a guy ' s memorial service for a cheap political shot . 056378 00001 samsmith7 - 12 : 31pm Jan 29 , 1999 EST ( of 56378 ) } 00002 * " I revere the law ! " - American hero and patriot , Kenneth Starr The following is an example of the drivel that has spewed down America ' s streets ever since the Ejaculation Proclamation of March 17 , 1998 ( before which the only thing anyone said was " He denied the relationship " or " there is no evidence of a relationship " : WHATEVER CLINTON HAS DONE , IT PALES IN COMPARISON TO THE RECORD OF THIS PARTY WHO HAS DONE MORE TO CREATE DIVISION THAN CLINTON ' S ENCOUNTER WITH LEWINSKY COULD EVER HAVE . THIS IS TYPE OF COUP D ' ETAT BY A GROUP OF REPUBLICANS WHO REPRESENT AN EXTREME MINORITY WHO DISDAINS THE PEOPLE OF OUR COUNTRY AND WANT TO EXERT AS MUCH CONTROL AS THEY CAN . END THE IMPEACHMENT AND VOTE THE REPUBLICANS OUT . I CAN ' T BELIEVE I EVER CONTEMPLATED VOTED FOR ONE . +++ 990130 057614 00001 jim30b - 12 : 44am Jan 30 , 1999 EST ( of 57616 ) } 00002 *I have the distinct misfortune to live in the BUGGMAN ' S district ( sugarland Tx ) outside Houston . As such the travails of #2 hypocrate is the grist of local politics . And You survived ? misstatements posted by Clinton apologists . Now they are even taking on Lincoln ! For shame ! } 00005 *And I ' m amazed by the depths of ignorance by the Clinton-haters . ( nah , I ' m not really -- just re-enforces my opinion of the idiots . ) 057625 00001 vrwcarea51g - 12 : 53am Jan 30 , 1999 EST ( of 57743 ) } 00002 *My Rifle protects your Freedom ! Even you , Admiral ADA ! > 00003 acer5 - 12 : 35am Jan 30 , 1999 EST ( §§057603 of 57615 ) } 00004 * ~ http : / / mysp . com / p / acer / ~ " The Bill C . Secretary , Fully automated , flexible , self-correcting , expandable , limited memory and never skips a perio . . . " } 00005 *you can say goodbye to acer5 after this one for sure . . . Looks like a real Spit and Shine Girl ! 057682 00001 jlaing10 - 01 : 37am Jan 30 , 1999 EST ( of 57741 ) > 00002 royal_coachman - 01 : 34am Jan 30 , 1999 EST ( #57676 of 57677 ) } 00003 *I ' m too lazy , I ' d have to retype it . 057683 00001 jim30b - 01 : 39am Jan 30 , 1999 EST ( of 57741 ) > 00002 to : d-fender : re#57653 } 00003 *Sorry to disapoint , but I ' m deadly serious . the only of the aforementioned wars , I would have Volunteered for , was WWII . Let the warmongers , have to deal with annother vast , civil disobedience like Vietnam , and they will be much less likely to squander the blood of their brethren in the future . Note the evolution of american warefare . Can you imagine anyone stupid enough to foist annother Vietnam on this country agian ? ? I THINK NOT , the real heroes of the Vietnam era , were those of us with BALLS ENOUGH TO REFUSE . 057684 00001 royal_coachman - 01 : 39am Jan 30 , 1999 EST ( of 57741 ) > 00002 Jlaing . . . } 00003 *Actually , I was getting ready to do that myself ( re-type it ) , when I thought it would just be easier to shame you into doing it . Well , it was worth a try . 057685 00001 jlaing10 - 01 : 40am Jan 30 , 1999 EST ( of 57741 ) > 00002 royal_coachman - 01 : 37am Jan 30 , 1999 EST ( #57681 of 57682 ) } 00003 *I ' m beting the vote is 61-39 to convict , what ' s your bet ? +++ 057686 00001 d-fendr - 01 : 40am Jan 30 , 1999 EST ( of 57741 ) > 00002 royal , } 00003 *nah , 100 must mean a lot more to me than to you . I ' d go maybe $10 , but I ' d want to re-structure the bet . Senate doesn ' t remove gives you too many of the options to win with . You ' d win if he resigned for example . . Lemme think . . . 057687 00001 jlaing10 - 01 : 41am Jan 30 , 1999 EST ( of 57741 ) > 00002 royal_coachman 1 / 30 / 99 1 : 39am } 00003 *lol 057688 00001 powerside1 - 01 : 42am Jan 30 , 1999 EST ( of 57741 ) } 00002 * " This country cannot afford to be materially rich and spiritually poor . . . . It reminds us of the importance of family . . and the duty we owe to each other . . . . let us all pledge by our devotion to God and family " BILL CLINTON , 10-30-96 > 00003 havnaer 1 / 30 / 99 1 : 30am } 00004 *Has he made ANY rulings of substance in this case ? } 00005 *Yes , he overruled Harkin ' s objection to the House Managers ' interviewing Lewinsky . And he has issued a ruling on each occassion on which one was requested . You see , it is not the judge ' s job to make rulings sua sponte . Unless someone objects , or requests a ruling , he is basically supposed to just sit there and watch . Moreover , because the Senate has the sole power to try impeachments , the Chief Justice really only has the power of moral suassion , which he must carefully reserve in the event he is called upon to make some ruling of extreme significance ( assuming one of the parties or a Senator were to call upon him to do so ) . If he were to inject himself into the proceedings without very good cause , the disappointed party would inevitably assail him as " partisan " ( where have were heard that word before ) , which would diminish the credibility and independence of the judiciary . Unlike some people , who can ' t pass a camera without striking a pose , the Chief Justice has conducted himself precisely in the right manner . 057689 00001 jammerbirdi - 01 : 42am Jan 30 , 1999 EST ( of 57741 ) > 00002 dickburke1 - 01 : 32am Jan 30 , 1999 EST ( #57674 of 57674 ) } 00003 *Aren ' t you worried about this " finding of fact " cow patty that the repubs are rubbing all over themselves these days ? And isn ' t it funny how following the strict course outlined in the Constitution has become very unattractive now that the repubs have gotten their big booties reamed by the White House attorneys ? 057690 00001 royal_coachman - 01 : 43am Jan 30 , 1999 EST ( of 57741 ) > 00002 Jlaing . . . } 00003 *I think it will be 53-47-1 to acquit ( the 1 being Mascian , who will just vote that everyone else is a moronic Communist apologist , a shoddy thinker , and a poor speller to boot ) . 057691 00001 powerside1 - 01 : 45am Jan 30 , 1999 EST ( of 57741 ) } 00002 * " This country cannot afford to be materially rich and spiritually poor . . . . It reminds us of the importance of family . . and the duty we owe to each other . . . . let us all pledge by our devotion to God and family " BILL CLINTON , 10-30-96 > 00003 royal_coachman 1 / 30 / 99 1 : 35am } 00004 *Pssst . That ' s not the point . Pass it along . 057692 00001 pittaway - 01 : 46am Jan 30 , 1999 EST ( of 57741 ) } 00002 *The President is going to be removed . 23 , 000 , 000 Ditto Heads cann ' t be wrong . 057693 00001 d-fendr - 01 : 46am Jan 30 , 1999 EST ( of 57741 ) > 00002 royal , } 00003 *50-50 odds is not enough for me to bet much on . I ' d bet that more than one democrat vote to convict if it gets that far . I like those odds . I ' d bet that a strong censure doesn ' t happen . Strong censure meaning meaning he must admit he lied , can not hold future office and can be held accountable for prosecution after he leaves office . I like those odds a lot . 057694 00001 vrwcarea51g - 01 : 46am Jan 30 , 1999 EST ( of 57741 ) } 00002 *My Rifle protects your Freedom ! Even you , Admiral > 00003 ADA ! > 00004 dickburke1 - 01 : 32am Jan 30 , 1999 EST ( #57674 of 57679 ) } 00005 *Republicans can whine , they can cry , they can hug the sides of the drain , but sooner or later The Vote will go down . . . and they will go down . . . screeching piously " rule of law , " . . oh please please please , it wasn ' t about sex honest go God ! The presence of certain death clears the mind wonderfully . Just arrived from planet Uranus I see , Meanwhile here on planet earth it has been the Cover-up Fiberals , that have been whining , screaming , crying about the rules , but these SAME fiberals want to change the rules at every turn . They wanted Censure in the House , no rule ! They Wanted Witnesses in the House , they got em , 15 NOt ONE addressed any of the Evidence ! NOT ONE . They wanted to delay the final decisions of the rules , when the time came they complained they didn ' t get their way . The Fiberal Attorney stands in the Well of the senate a claims they weren ' t given ANY chance to call witnesses in the HOUSE . They wanted to short Circuit the Trial , they wanted to have a trial WITHOUT witnesses . Please , Please , it was All about the Cover-up IN THE FIRST PLACE ! The Only sex going on is the Democrats SCR*WING the Constitution and the Rules ! 057695 00001 royal_coachman - 01 : 47am Jan 30 , 1999 EST ( of 57741 ) > 00002 Powerside . . . } 00003 *Oh , little fella , when you talk about impeaching Clinton again . . . it ' s exactly the point . You don ' t even have the time , even if you say you have the issue . +++ 057696 00001 dickburke1 - 01 : 48am Jan 30 , 1999 EST ( of 57741 ) > 00002 havnaer } 00003 *Brother have you got it right . The Republicans want Stalingrad . . they will get it . I opt for an October end date . There is not a solitary soul in this fiasco with enough brains to end this . So it will grind on . . and on . . and on . Here we are , a public with barely the patience to sit thru a commercial , faced with a political Viet Nam , no exit in sight , no intelligence on either side . . . like two jackasses trapped in a narrow corridor . Stupidity of this magnitude has got to crash . Only a near-death experience is going to let some light in . I foresee mental illness & cardiac outfall in these Senators on the margins . 057697 00001 d-fendr - 01 : 48am Jan 30 , 1999 EST ( of 57741 ) > 00002 Acer , } 00003 *Run again in 2000 or Flynt gets this picture . 057698 00001 jlaing10 - 01 : 49am Jan 30 , 1999 EST ( of 57741 ) > 00002 royal_coachman - 01 : 43am Jan 30 , 1999 EST ( §§057691 of 57691 ) } 00003 *Mascian ' s a RW hack , he couldn ' t do the gymnastics to be neutral 057699 00001 carldenis - 01 : 49am Jan 30 , 1999 EST ( of 57741 ) > 00002 acer5 } 00003 *Greaaaaaat ! 057700 00001 d-fendr - 01 : 50am Jan 30 , 1999 EST ( of 57741 ) > 00002 royal , } 00003 *You ' d bet only 53 votes to convict ? I ' ll bet ten against that . And go out tomorrow and spend it . : ) 057701 00001 jlaing10 - 01 : 50am Jan 30 , 1999 EST ( of 57741 ) } 00002 *later 057702 00001 acer5 - 01 : 50am Jan 30 , 1999 EST ( of 57741 ) } 00002 *~ http : / / mysp . com / p / acer / ~ > 00003 d-fendr} 00004 * . . . hmmm , i ' ll have run that by the wife . . . ; ) 057703 00001 d-fendr - 01 : 52am Jan 30 , 1999 EST ( of 57741 ) } 00002 *seems when the majority rules , the minority these days thinks it ' s a coup . Where were they for the 40 years of democrat majorities . 057704 00001 royal_coachman - 01 : 53am Jan 30 , 1999 EST ( of 57741 ) > 00002 D-fendr . . } 00003 *Well , I don ' t care about the amount , honestly . And I ' d take that bet . . . but it has to be all 3 : admit he lied , no office , and no pardon ? Is that the bet ? 057705 00001 d-fendr - 01 : 53am Jan 30 , 1999 EST ( of 57741 ) > 00002 Acer , } 00003 *How about : " Say , that ' s a lovely blue dress , can I borrow it for a friend ? " +++ 057706 00001 d-fendr - 01 : 54am Jan 30 , 1999 EST ( of 57741 ) } 00002 *yes , all three to qualify for strong censure . I bet it won ' t happen , you bet it will . $10 ? 057707 00001 carldenis - 01 : 56am Jan 30 , 1999 EST ( of 57741 ) } 00002 *Am signing off . Got to hit the sack . See u soon 057708 00001 royal_coachman - 01 : 57am Jan 30 , 1999 EST ( of 57741 ) > 00002 D-fendr . . } 00003 *Wait , I thought I was betting strong censure wouldn ' t happen . Yikes . 057709 00001 tna1pada3 - 01 : 57am Jan 30 , 1999 EST ( of 57741 ) } 00002 * " It ain ' t over til it ' s over " The Early Purges by Seamus Heaney I was six when I first saw kittens drown . Dan Taggart pitched them , ' the scraggy wee sh*ts ' , Into a bucket ; a frail metal sound , Soft paws scraping like mad . But their tiny din Was soon soused . They were slung on the snout Of the pump and the water pumped in . ' Sure isn ' t it better for them now ? ' Dan said . Like wet gloves they bobbed and shone till he sluiced Them out on the dunghill , glossy and dead . Suddenly frightened , for days I sadly hung Round the yard , watching the three sogged remains Turn mealy and crisp as old summer dung Until I forgot them . But the fear came back When Dan trapped big rats , snared rabbits , shot crows Or , with a sickening tug , pulled old hens ' necks . Still , living displaces false sentiments And now , when shrill pups are prodded to drown I just shrug , ' Bloody pups ' . It makes sense : ' Prevention of cruelty ' talk cuts ice in town Where they consider death unnatural , But on well-run farms pests have to be kept down . 057710 00001 powerside1 - 01 : 58am Jan 30 , 1999 EST ( of 57741 ) } 00002 * " This country cannot afford to be materially rich and spiritually poor . . . . It reminds us of the importance of family . . and the duty we owe to each other . . . . let us all pledge by our devotion to God and family " BILL CLINTON , 10-30-96 > 00003 jim30b 1 / 30 / 99 1 : 39am } 00004 *the real heroes of the Vietnam era , were those of us with BALLS ENOUGH TO REFUSE . } 00005 *Even if you could convince every one else , you still have to live with yourself . When their country called . . Some faught . Some turned their backs and ran . And now those cowards now seek solace in their excuses . But the heroes stand silent , because they don ' t have to explain . 057711 00001 vrwcarea51g - 01 : 58am Jan 30 , 1999 EST ( of 57741 ) } 00002 *My Rifle protects your Freedom ! Even you , Admiral ADA ! > 00003 jim : } 00004 *I THINK NOT , the real heroes of the Vietnam era , were those of us with BALLS ENOUGH TO REFUSE . } 00005 *I bet you felt like a real MAN when you saw some of those boys come home and get spat on and called baby Killers because they Honored their Duty to Their Country . 057712 00001 d-fendr - 01 : 58am Jan 30 , 1999 EST ( of 57741 ) > 00002 royal , } 00003 *rats , hopin you ' d fall for that one , unconstitutional . . back to the drawing board . . 057713 00001 royal_coachman - 01 : 59am Jan 30 , 1999 EST ( of 57741 ) > 00002 Adaplant . . . } 00003 *Thanks . 057714 00001 tna1pada3 - 02 : 00am Jan 30 , 1999 EST ( of 57741 ) } 00002 * " It ain ' t over til it ' s over " Where can we find a bucket for the managers ? Adieu . 057715 00001 d-fendr - 02 : 00am Jan 30 , 1999 EST ( of 57741 ) > 00002 royal , } 00003 *I ' d bet there will be more than 53 votes to convict on the obstruction article . +++ 057716 00001 dickburke1 - 02 : 01am Jan 30 , 1999 EST ( of 57740 ) } 00002 *ada } 00003 *Great poem ada . That was a fitting & true rhapsody to the Republican End-Time . The Gutterdammerung they are lusting for . 057717 00001 tna1pada3 - 02 : 02am Jan 30 , 1999 EST ( of 57740 ) } 00002 * " It ain ' t over til it ' s over " > 00003 royal_coachman 1 / 30 / 99 1 : 59am } 00004 *SEAMUS HEANEY Enjoy ! Goodnight . 057718 00001 royal_coachman - 02 : 02am Jan 30 , 1999 EST ( of 57740 ) > 00002 D-fendr . . . } 00003 *Hmmm . You may be right . That ' s tough bet . 057719 00001 acer5 - 02 : 03am Jan 30 , 1999 EST ( of 57740 ) } 00002 *~ http : / / mysp . com / p / acer / ~ ZzZzZzZzZzZzZzZzZz . . . huh ? . . . 057720 00001 vrwcarea51g - 02 : 03am Jan 30 , 1999 EST ( of 57740 ) } 00002 *My Rifle protects your Freedom ! Even you , Admiral > 00003 ADA ! > 00004 jim : } 00005 *How would you have felt if the military told Bill to stick it when he issued a order to Bomb Iraq , because they loathed Him ? 057721 00001 powerside1 - 02 : 06am Jan 30 , 1999 EST ( of 57740 ) } 00002 * " This country cannot afford to be materially rich and spiritually poor . . . . It reminds us of the importance of family . . and the duty we owe to each other . . . . let us all pledge by our devotion to God and family " BILL CLINTON , 10-30-96 > 00003 tna1pada3 1 / 30 / 99 2 : 00am } 00004 *Where can we find a bucket for the managers ? } 00005 *It won ' t be easy to find one . . . large enough to clean up all the BS spilling from this White House . It ' s a dirty job , but somebody ' s gotta do it ! 057722 00001 d-fendr - 02 : 08am Jan 30 , 1999 EST ( of 57740 ) > 00002 royal , } 00003 *yep . I think anything less than 55-56 is starting to look like a good bet even now , and I think it will move in the direction of more as the trial continues . it ' s publicly easy for a lot more democrats to vote guilty ( agreeing with constituents in many many cases ) . The downside for many comes from within their party , affecting their future effectiveness in the senate . But , the tough part would be if it gets towards 66-67 , that would bring hellish pressure . 057723 00001 collioure1 - 02 : 09am Jan 30 , 1999 EST ( of 57740 ) } 00002 *Truth and honesty are not the currency of the Clinton administration ( Chinese money is preferred ) > 00003 pdomingo 1 / 29 / 99 10 : 38pm } 00004 *The Jane Doe #5 story has legs - i . e . , timely conversations with acquaintances . 057724 00001 d-fendr - 02 : 11am Jan 30 , 1999 EST ( of 57740 ) > 00002 royal : } 00003 *consider these numbers ( during the SOTU bounce ) Recently , one congressman has suggested that the Senate can convict the President and choose to not remove him from office . Would you agree or disagree with this approach ? Agree 33 . 4 Disagree 56 . 3 Not sure 10 . 2 Do you agree or disagree that lying before a Grand Jury is an impeachable offense ? Agree 54 . 6 Disagree 16 . 0 It depends 25 . 7 Not sure 3 . 7 Do you agree or disagree that obstruction of justice is an impeachable offense ? Agree 58 . 7 Disagree 11 . 6 It depends 26 . 0 Not sure 3 . 7 Do you agree or disagree that President Clinton has lied before a Grand Jury ? Agree 62 . 9 Disagree 19 . 8 It depends 17 . 2 057725 00001 acer5 - 02 : 11am Jan 30 , 1999 EST ( of 57740 ) } 00002 *~ http : / / mysp . com / p / acer / ~ nice looking legs too i ' m sure . . . . sorry > 00003 collioure1 , } 00004 *i couldn ' t resist . . . +++ 057726 00001 d-fendr - 02 : 13am Jan 30 , 1999 EST ( of 57740 ) > 00002 royal , } 00003 *course the disconnect comes when you look at the numbers who want the prez removed . He ' s guilty , if he ' s guilty he should be removed , we don ' t want him removed . That I think is the microcosm of the dilemna . . 057727 00001 collioure1 - 02 : 14am Jan 30 , 1999 EST ( of 57740 ) } 00002 *Truth and honesty are not the currency of the Clinton administration ( Chinese money is preferred ) > 00003 mikerose2 1 / 29 / 99 10 : 42pm } 00004 *I understand the dichotomy between Jews as an ethnic group and Jews as those who have adopted Judiasm as a religion . It is one that bedevils the American Jews . I brought it up in the context of whether Jews discouraging interfaith marriages was racist . ( no doubt we ' ll hear from elizabeth on this one sooner or later . ) 057728 00001 powerside1 - 02 : 14am Jan 30 , 1999 EST ( of 57740 ) } 00002 * " This country cannot afford to be materially rich and spiritually poor . . . . It reminds us of the importance of family . . and the duty we owe to each other . . . . let us all pledge by our devotion to God and family " BILL CLINTON , 10-30-96 CLINTON GOON HIRED TO INTIMIDATE WILEY W A S H I N G T O N , Jan . 29 - ABCNEWS has learned that a private investigator has become a key witness in the investigation of whether someone tried to scare Kathleen Willey into remaining silent about allegations President Clinton made an unwanted sexual advance . Sources now say Starr ' s investigation is focused on Jarrett Stern , a private investigator with ties to prominent Democratic fund-raiser Nathan Landow . Asked whether he has been working on a project related to Willey , Stern said , " It is true . The specifics of it , I don ' t want to get into . " Landow Investigated Willey Sources familiar with Stern ' s work say he was hired by Saul Schwartzbach , a lawyer for Landow . Willey has testified that Landow , who has brought in several hundred thousand dollars for the Clinton-Gore campaigns , pressured her to deny that Clinton made a sexual advance toward her at the White House . The same sources say Landow had Willey investigated at a time when she was a witness in both the Paula Jones sexual harassment case and the Starr criminal investigation . Landow himself told ABCNEWS last fall that he had asked the lawyer to draw up " a chronology " detailing Willey ' s story . Sources say Stern was asked to pull Willey ' s phone records , to find out what medications Willey might be taking and to conduct a " noisy " investigation aimed at making sure Willey knew she was being watched . Stern ' s lawyer , Edward Bouquet , said the private investigator began to feel uneasy with the Willey project . " I think that he perceived a situation where he was being asked to do something he wasn ' t comfortable with , " Bouquet said . Bouquet claims Stern was so uncomfortable that he called Willey and left a message - using an alias - warning her that someone wanted to do her harm . What investigators want to know is whether Stern has knowledge of " the jogger , " a man Willey claims tried to scare her . Willey says that two days before her deposition in the Jones case , a jogger - a stranger approached her , asked about her children , and said , " Don ' t you get the message ? " Stern insists he is not the jogger but also says he believes " wholeheartedly " that Willey is telling the truth about the incident . A spokesman for Landow says he will be " completely exonerated . " Indeed , Starr has a difficult case to make as sources say Landow and Schwartzbach have refused to answer prosecutors ' questions . --> 057729 00001 rogerfgay - 02 : 15am Jan 30 , 1999 EST ( of 57740 ) } 00002 *Lower your flags ; US to have a King . Senate Democrats vowed yesterday to change the president ' s Constitutional status as " first citizen " by making him exempt from impeachment and the common law . It is a coup d ' etet against the Constitution that will effect the country deeply . The impeachment clause will remain in the Constitution but with a new meaning that effectively exempts the president from criminal prosecution and removal from office . In direct Constitutional interpretation , the standard applies as well to the vice president and all civil officers of the United States , including federal judges . Congress makes its own rules for disciplining members , including expulsion if the cause is sufficient . But their rules have been in reasonable correspondence with those of the other two branches of government . There ' s no reason to suspect that the legislative branch will not over time bring itself into correspondence with the new standard , which will act as de facto statement of fundamental law . It ' s been no secret that a strong " political class " has been establishing itself in the US , but has been frustrated by the western basis of US law . It ' s difficult to have a true class system when basic law demands that everyone is equal . The declaration by the Democrats yesterday sets the nation on a new course , reversing more than 200 years of political progress . Lower your flags . The US is to have a king . The fight for freedom and democracy has not been finally won after all . 057730 00001 vrwcarea51g - 02 : 18am Jan 30 , 1999 EST ( of 57740 ) } 00002 *My Rifle protects your Freedom ! Even you , Admiral > 00003 ADA ! > 00004 collioure1 - 02 : 09am Jan 30 , 1999 EST ( #57723 of 57725 ) } 00005 *Truth and honesty are not the currency of the Clinton administration ( Chinese money is preferred ) } 00006 *Oh no , Haven ' t you heard . The fiberals have already embarked on the Lieing Sl*t , Smear the B ! tch Defense . Hugs called it ! +++ 057731 00001 collioure1 - 02 : 19am Jan 30 , 1999 EST ( of 57740 ) } 00002 *Truth and honesty are not the currency of the Clinton administration ( Chinese money is preferred ) > 00003 powerside1 1 / 30 / 99 2 : 14am } 00004 *Excellent . We knew this investigation was hot . Let ' s make sure teririley sees this . And this administration is favored by women . 057732 00001 collioure1 - 02 : 20am Jan 30 , 1999 EST ( of 57740 ) } 00002 *Truth and honesty are not the currency of the Clinton administration ( Chinese money is preferred ) > 00003 vrwcarea51g 1 / 30 / 99 2 : 18am } 00004 *Against whom ? Lewinsky ? 057733 00001 havnaer - 02 : 21am Jan 30 , 1999 EST ( of 57740 ) } 00002 *Here ' s a funny idea . I was thinking about what the guys on the Right wing of the auditorium have been saying that the Impeachment isn ' t about SEX ( even though everyone else in the country thinks it is ) . I ' m a bipartisan kind of guy , so I thought I ' d try to see this from their point of view . Okay , let ' s concede that the Impeachment isn ' t about SEX . It ' s about perjury and obstruction of justice . Let ' s look at the perjury . Bill is accused of making false statements under oath to a federal grand jury . What were those statements ? He claimed he did not have sex , as he knew the term , with Monica L . and that when he presented his deposition in the Paula Jones civil case , he stated that he had no relationship with Ms . L . But wait ! This isn ' t about SEX , right ? If it isn ' t about sex , then Bill COULDN ' T have had sex with anyone . This means his statement about not having sex HAD TO BE THE TRUTH ! ! Since excluding the sex makes the relationship between Mon and Bill purely a professional one , this means the deposition as presented had to be the truth as well ! ! So , by definition , there could not possibly be any perjury committed ! This leaves the charge of obstruction of justice . This charge is predicated on the assumption that Bill was improperly influencing others to testify incorrectly before the grand jury in order to avoid conflicting and incriminating testimony and subsequent criminal charges . The key is the alleged motive - concealing criminal perjury . Yet we have already established that there was no possibility of perjury as Bill had to be telling the truth since this isn ' t about sex , right ? This eliminates any motive for obstruction of justice , casting serious doubt about whether he was even trying to influence anyone at all . In fact , when taken together or individually , the statements cited as used to influence witnesses are now absolutely truthful ( not about sex ) and the President is in fact encouraging them to be as accurate as possible . Again , by definition there cannot be obstruction of justice when Bill is encouraging witnesses to be as helpful as possible . In conclusion , if we continue to maintain that the Impeachment is not about SEX , then there cannot have been any crimes committed , and there are NO GROUNDS FOR IMPEACHMENT . If , however , the grounds for Impeachment are made as charged , THEN THIS HAS TO BE ABOUT SEX ! ! ! ! ! Ha ! 057734 00001 collioure1 - 02 : 21am Jan 30 , 1999 EST ( of 57740 ) } 00002 *Truth and honesty are not the currency of the Clinton administration ( Chinese money is preferred ) > 00003 vrwcarea51g 1 / 30 / 99 2 : 18am } 00004 *Never mind . I ' m sure it ' s Broaddrick . 057735 00001 rogerfgay - 02 : 23am Jan 30 , 1999 EST ( of 57740 ) > 00002 havnaer - 02 : 21am Jan 30 , 1999 EST ( #57733 of 57733 ) } 00003 *Bill is accused of making false statements under oath to a federal grand jury . What were those statements ? He claimed he did not have sex , as he knew the term , . . . . . zzzzzzzzzzzzzz - zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz 057736 00001 collioure1 - 02 : 24am Jan 30 , 1999 EST ( of 57740 ) } 00002 *Truth and honesty are not the currency of the Clinton administration ( Chinese money is preferred ) > 00003 havnaer 1 / 30 / 99 2 : 21am } 00004 *Congratulations . You ' ve just been ugraded from defender to enabler ! 057737 00001 vrwcarea51g - 02 : 25am Jan 30 , 1999 EST ( of 57740 ) } 00002 *My Rifle protects your Freedom ! Even you , Admiral ADA ! > 00003 Collioure : } 00004 *NO , Jane Doe #5 , here in the forum . . . . . about 10 : 30 or so . . And there is a Nice post by Teririley about it forgot the time of her post ! She says if he did it , she wants Justice . . . . .
00003 Rep . Christopher Cannon ( R-Utah ) , Mormon , lawyer , white , male - 100%
00004 Rep . Steve Chabot ( R-Ohio ) , Roman Catholic , lawyer , white , male - 100% Rep . Gekas ( R-Pennsylvania ) Greek Orthodox , lawyer , white , male - 93% Rep . Lindsey O . Graham ( R-South Carolina ) Southern Baptist , lawyer , white , male 93% Rep . William " Asa " Hutchinson ( R-Arkansas ) Baptist , lawyer , white , male - 93% Rep . Henry Hyde ( R-Illinois ) , Roman Catholic , lawyer , white , male - 100% Rep . Bill McCollum ( R-Florida ) Episcopalian , lawyer , white , male 87% Rep . James E . Rogan ( R-California ) , Protestant , lawyer , white , male - 100% Rep . F . James Sensenbrenner ( R-Wisconsin ) , Episcopalian , lawyer , white , male - 100% Totals : Occupation : Lawyer ( 13 ) 100% Race : White ( 13 ) 100% Gender : Male ( 13 ) 100% Religion : Christian ( 13 ) 100% - [Baptist ( 1 ) , Episcopalian ( 2 ) , Greek Orthodox ( 1 ) , Methodist ( 2 ) , Mormon ( 1 ) , Presbyterian ( 2 ) , Protestant ( 1 ) , Roman Catholic ( 2 ) , Southern Baptist ( 1 ) ] 052143 00001 mikerose2 - 09 : 12pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52464 ) } 00002 *I agree with you that there is a natural arostocracy among men . The grounds for this are virtue and talents . Formerly bodily powers gave place among the aristoi . But since the invention of gunpowder has armed the weak as well as the strong with missle death , bodily strength , like beauty , good humor , politeness and other accomplishments , has become but an auxiliary ground of distinction and accomplishment . - T . Jefferson , Oct 28 , 1813 00003 oah , poah pubbies ...... < / b> 00004 The further they go into freefall , the more they blame everything and anything else . Seems they missed their sermons on personal responsibility . . . . Let ' s see , they ' ve blamed : 1 ) The Economy ( if it stunk , people would blame Clinton ) 2 ) The polls ( they lie -- except the polls they conduct among their white-sheeted friends , of course ) 3 ) The Communists ( no kidding -- it working in the glorious 50 ' s and they ' ll try anything ) 4 ) Larry Flynt ( never mind Ken Starr has published more porn than Larry ever did ) 5 ) Wimmin ' -- the danged critters jes ' don ' t listen to their menfolk anymore . . . . . 6 ) The financially poah ( as opposed to the intellectually poah , obviously ) . . . . 7 ) And anyone who isn ' t a member of the religious reich ( never mind the fiounding father ' s weren ' t -- details like that don ' t matter to real patriots ) . . . . Oh , well . . . . The pubbies scamper up the mast of a sinking ship to be the last to drown . I love it . 052144 00001 Vegetius - 09 : 13pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52464 ) > 00002 spinthis - 09 : 11pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( #52142 of 52142 ) What are the specific issues that they voted on ? +++ 052145 00001 macer235 - 09 : 13pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52464 ) > 00002 jolietjake1 : } 00003 * " you are ready to join up with the Third Wave / Progressive / Socialist . You claim mind-reading skills . Where is your evidence for that conclusion ? Feel free to read every post I ' ve ever made and you will find nothing to support it . What make you think the only people disgusted with this tainted investigation and impeachment process are liberals ? Do you think conservatives have no concern for the law or the Constitution ? Religious Right folks read the latter in the same spirit in which such Fundamentalists read the Bible . Their interpretation is the ONLY legitimate interpretation . . . absolutely ! In both cases , they see the fixity despite all ambiguities or vagueness . The biggest problem between Religious Right folks and conservatives concerns Big Government . True conservatives oppose it ; you folks see it as a tool for forcing your social ideas on everyone : electric chairs for doctors who provide abortions ; ditto for Kevorkian ; put homosexuals in jail ; use the coercive powers of government to investigate the sexual behavior of anyone you don ' t like ; bring obstruction of justice charges against private individuals who " out " Holy Hypocrites in reverse ( Barr actually proposed this " treatment " for Larry Flynt ) , prosecute Playboy publishers as pornographers , and so on . Using your logic , Barry Goldwater , known as the " Conscience of Conservatism , " was a flaming liberal or a filthy traitor ( he warned the GOP against alliance with the religious right ) . In your absolutism , you confuse any kind of tolerance with left-wing radicalism . Shame on you ! 052146 00001 overlord21 - 09 : 14pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52464 ) > 00002 spinthis - 05 : 53pm Jan 26 , 1999 } 00003 * " bird_33 : Reagan skyrocketed the deficit . " } 00004 *You do have brown eyes , somehow I just knew it . Go ask Tip O ' Neill who gave you that deficit . Then ask Jesse Jackson and the rest of the Congressional Black Panther Caucus . Then ask the American Association of Retired Persons , the ones who like 7% raises every year when the COLA ' s about half that . Whereever you turn trying to understand how the national debt compiled like this , you ' ll see the face of a snickering pinko Democrud pointing the stink finger of blame at us to cover up for their tax and spend conspiracy of shame . } 00005 * " Clinton ' s ' 93 budget created the surplus . " } 00006 *Hmmm . Brown eyes , AND a Lobotomy too ? Wow . The very FIRST thing Bill Clintstone , the Modern Stone Age Liberal Pothead , did was propose the INFAMOUS 16 Billion Dollar " Stimulus Package " ? Or maybe you were counting on us forgetting all about that , right ? Riiight . Yeah , dollars for this program , dollars for that program , Midnight Basketball , Needle Exchanges , Publicly Funded Abortions , ya know , just what Ozzie and Harriet , Abe and Mary , George and Martha all had in mind . America the Ugly . And if those outrages weren ' t enough , Taxula and his wench wife tried to SOCIALIZE our national healthcare delivery system . . . ONE FULL SEVENTH OF THE ENTIRE FRICKIN ' ECONOMY ! ! ! ! Yup , just socialize the hell out of one of our very brightest stars in the American Economic System . And then watch it fall to pieces from abuse like it has over in that socialist sinkhole called " Europe " . And I just LOVE all those bucks Clinton promised like the economic Santa Klutz he is for more teachers , more cops , more this , more that . . . right out of the bottomless goodie bag you commie lib simpletons all see when you look at that thing called " Federal Budget " . When you ' re through whacking your monkey , come up for some air and tell us again how this Spendaholic Taxmaster Clinton gave us that " surplus " . The only surplus he created was that surplus spermwave he ' s squirtin ' all over MY damn Oval Office which he won ' t be occupy much longer ! } 00007 * " Clinton / Morris triangulated the GOP into the right-wing corner they now find themselves . " Gee , if they were such an effective team , why did Morris have to leave with the same kind of morality problems his Sex Therapist boss has , and end up trash-talking his butt all over the FOX TV talk shows ( Hannity , O ' Reilly , etc . ) all but admitting he ' s a louse and an overrated idiot too stupid to know we ' re all watching every move , and every groin jerk , every head job bob , every intern ' s hair stroke he makes in that office . } 00008 * " The GOP is now controlled by the Christian Coalition . " } 00009 *I ' ve never met ' em , but I wouldn ' t mind , if you ' re the alternative . Besides , you should stop worrying about them . They ' re tame . It ' s Republicans like me you should be sweatin ' . We ' re the ones with the in-yo ' -face attitude . God help you if the whole GOP side of the Congress ends up being people like me . Your boys and girls wouldn ' t get out of the first finance committee meeting with life in their carcasses , guaranteed . } 00010 * " That is why they lose in 2000 . " } 00011 *Why don ' t you presumptuous leftist big mouths stuff it on that 2000 election prediction crap . You don ' t know what those freaky , inconsistent voters out there are gonna do or react to all this like any more than we do . Or maybe you just need that cheerleading like that , after all , you ' ve lost 3 straight elections , hey , I can feel that pain , no sweat . Feels great too ! Cuz it ' s YOURS ! A-hahahah ! That is why Gore will able to successfully appoint Clinton to } 00012 * " the Supreme Court because Congress will be controlled by Dems " } 00013 *What kind of blithering idiot would even DREAM of making THAT prediction . Who says anyone on that Court ' s aiming for retirement , at least on our side . YOUR side ' s got the number one ranked geezer , and that ' s John Paul Stevens . And he usually votes on the LOSING side , the dissenters like Darth Bader Gins 052147 00001 teririley - 09 : 14pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52464 ) } 00002 *Our government is a progressive instrument for the common good . > 00003 Jerryherek , } 00004 *I have more respect for Carvelle and even Flyntt than I do Dewy , Cheatim and Howe otherwise known as Starr ( s ) and Barr ( s ) ----how fitting------with a little Hyde tarred for good measure . 052148 00001 spinthis - 09 : 15pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52464 ) } 00002 *TALE OF TWO CITIES DEMOCRATIC AGENDA save Social Security more teachers more police officers lower crime rate campaign finance reform Patient ' s Bill of Rights higher minimum wage 50% reduction in welfare rolls 4 . 8% unemployment rate clean air and water anti-Tobacco gun control term limits balanced budget free trade equal opportunity for all equal pay regardless of gender GOP AGENDA tax breaks for the rich Impeachment +++ 052149 00001 supkis - 09 : 16pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52464 ) } 00002 *Back to brains vs brawn . Lets pretend we are cavemen during the ice age . I happen to see a huge cave bear go into this cave to sleep . I want to get rid of Oog the Ugly because he is messing around with a fine female called Moogica and so I can ' t fight him for he is built like a linebacker on steroids so I say , " Oog , that cave looks real neat . It would make a perfect home for Moogica ! " Oog the Ugly grunts and takes his club and goes inside . He battles the cave bear to death but he is badly wounded . You dispatch him with a quick blow to the head . Moogica is estatic about your nifty cave ! Children follow . . . their descendants trod the streets of America . 052150 00001 jerryhere - 09 : 16pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52464 ) } 00002 *Bill has flaws I agree w / the lib t8rds , I ' m sick of this . . . Let ' s get rid of the most dishonorable prez of all time , of all of the Americas . Forthwith . ( are there any presidents anywhere else ? ah , yes , cigars ! ) Let ' s don ' t screw up Super Bowl Weekend --- get rid of the chump . And let ' s behave like the moral decrepits with our wives and family , eh ? 052151 00001 donkirk - 09 : 17pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( of 52464 ) } 00002 * " The President did not commit perjury . The President did not obstruct justice . He must not be removed from office . " > 00003 Vegetius - 08 : 55pm Jan 26 , 1999 EST ( #52121 of 52140 ) } 00004 *President Nixon faced impeachment charges , and deservedly , because he lied to the public . Don ' t believe the nonsense you hear about Nixon ' s grand treacheries and " official abuse " of the CIA , FBI and the IRS . A President who can get the IRS to audit his enemies doesn ' t get audited himself , as President Nixon did . Nixon faced impeachment charges because he lied . And we know that because that ' s what his accusers said at the time . The first item in the first article of impeachment against Nixon accused him simply of " making or causing to be made false or misleading public statements for the purpose of deceiving the people of the United States " As usual , Veggie , you don ' t have any idea of what you ' re talking about : ARTICLES OF IMPEACHMENT EXHIBITED BY THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IN THE NAME OF ITSELF AND OF ALL OF THE PEOPLE 00006 tt> 00007 arlstilessunde - 04 : 22pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( #53460 of 53983 ) } 00008 *
00016
00021 don ' t doubt it -- there is the evidence on one hand and the claims of the 13 white guys on the other . Why , barring political concern for their own irrascible younger siblings , would the Senate pubbies opt to give the idiots a chance / ( Unbless , of course , you beieve any conspiracy that can be envisioned must be disproved or accepted as true -- certainly an option , given Danny Williams and then Jane Doe #5 ) ? < / ol> 00022 } 00023 *Now lets look at the willingness to investigate . . . . } 00024 *
00025 our premise is that any doubt must be resolved . While this is fundamental faith amog conspiracy theorists , the law of the land and any attorney knows the level of proof is " beyond a reasonable doubt " , not " beyond any doubt " -- absolute faith is for the fundamentalists , and they think the world was created in 6 days and Eve was taken from Adam ' s rib . This nation ' s criminal level of proof is the highest ( civil cases are based on the preponderance of evidence ) . There is alsways some bubba who figures the whole world is out of step except him ( we seem to have plethora of them , who figure every poll that doesn ' t agree with them is fixed ) . < / ol> 00026 } 00027 *But don ' t worry . We love ya . . . . You remind us how far we ' ve come since Oog the Dim ...... 054046 00001 comcargru - 11 : 14pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 54140 ) } 00002 *Clinton wants to take away guns from Americans -- except , of course , the ones the Secret Service use protecting his sorry ass . 054047 00001 rineyd - 11 : 14pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 54053 ) } rineyd - 11 : 14pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 54140 ) } 00002 *Fein~gold is " the man " of the day . His vote , if based on conscience is very welcome . ------" As the family goes so goes the nation , " a welcome phrase uttered by the Pope . He like those who clapped so gaily for Flynton at the UN know where their bread is buttered . Zebraites attribute such levels of affection as proof of the esteem in which the porn prez is held . ------The NYT picture of the pope and Slynton holding his heart as our national anthem was being played did little for my stomach - as I thought of those millions who fought and died ( including my ancestors from Maryland ) for this hoped for experiment which is now in the hands of communists . Mc~Carthy was ahead of his time - its a pity he and his team hadn ' t used more tact . Around fifty percent of those who fought to wrest our lands from the Lion ' s paw with Washington were the sons of Erin . Revisionist historians try to hide these facts . Facts are stubborn things . ------The NYT picture in today ' s newspaper could not but , make a body think . ( macer : Thus we learn that Joe McCarthy was a terrific man whose only failing was a lack of tact . We are really in Yahoo land tonight , boys and girls . ) +++ *Fein~gold is " the man " of the day . His vote , if based on conscience is very welcome . ------" As the family goes so goes the nation , " a welcome phrase uttered by the Pope . He like those who clapped so gaily for Flynton at the UN know where their bread is buttered . Zebraites attribute such levels of affection as proof of the esteem in which the porn prez is held . ------The NYT picture of the pope and Slynton holding his heart as our national anthem was being played did little for my stomach - as I thought of those millions who fought and died ( including my ancestors from Maryland ) for this hoped for experiment which is now in the hands of communists . Mc~Carthy was ahead of his time - its a pity he and his team hadn ' t used more tact . Around fifty percent of those who fought to wrest our lands from the Lion ' s paw with Washington were the sons of Erin . Revisionist historians try to hide these facts . Facts are stubborn things . ------The NYT picture in today ' s newspaper could not but , make a body think . 054048 00001 mikerose2 - 11 : 15pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( of 54140 ) } 00002 *I agree with you that there is a natural arostocracy among men . The grounds for this are virtue and talents . Formerly bodily powers gave place among the aristoi . But since the invention of gunpowder has armed the weak as well as the strong with missle death , bodily strength , like beauty , good humor , politeness and other accomplishments , has become but an auxiliary ground of distinction and accomplishment . - T . Jefferson , Oct 28 , 1813 > 00003 tna1pada3 - 04 : 28pm Jan 27 , 1999 EST ( #53468 of 54021 ) } 00004 *> 00005 re you and Mr . Malaprop brothers ? Your delusional thinking indicates a possible kinship with the boards ' other delusional defamer . I suspect brothers , first cousins and parents-in-law of each other . It ' s an inbred group , what can I say ?