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Michael Kidner Interviewed by Penelope Curtis

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Michael Kidner Interviewed by Penelope Curtis NATIONAL LIFE STORIES ARTISTS’ LIVES Michael Kidner Interviewed by Penelope Curtis & Cathy Courtney C466/40 This transcript is copyright of the British Library Board. Please refer to the Oral History curators at the British Library prior to any publication or broadcast from this document. Oral History The British Library 96 Euston Road London NW1 2DB 020 7412 7404 [email protected] This transcript is accessible via the British Library’s Archival Sound Recordings website. Visit http://sounds.bl.uk for further information about the interview. © The British Library Board http://sounds.bl.uk IMPORTANT Access to this interview and transcript is for private research only. Please refer to the Oral History curators at the British Library prior to any publication or broadcast from this document. Oral History The British Library 96 Euston Road London NW1 2DB 020 7412 7404 [email protected] Every effort is made to ensure the accuracy of this transcript, however no transcript is an exact translation of the spoken word, and this document is intended to be a guide to the original recording, not replace it. Should you find any errors please inform the Oral History curators ( [email protected] ) © The British Library Board http://sounds.bl.uk The British Library National Life Stories Interview Summary Sheet Title Page Ref no: C466/40/01-08 Digitised from cassette originals Collection title: Artists’ Lives Interviewee’s surname: Kidner Title: Interviewee’s forename: Michael Sex: Male Occupation: Dates: 1917 Dates of recording: 16.3.1996, 29.3.1996, 4.8.1996 Location of interview: Interviewee’s home Name of interviewer: Penelope Curtis and Cathy Courtney Type of recorder: Marantz CP430 and two lapel mics Recording format: TDK C60 Cassettes F numbers of playback cassettes: F5079-F5085, F5449 Total no. of digitised tracks : 14 Mono or stereo: Stereo Additional material at the British Library : Copyright/Clearance: Full clearance. © The British Library Interviewer’s comments: Tapes 1-7 (F5079-5085) interviewer Penelope Curtis, 16 and 29 Mar. 1996; tape 8 (F5449) recorded in a separate project by Cathy Courtney and donated to the NLS Artists' Lives collection, 2 Apr. 1997. © The British Library Board http://sounds.bl.uk Michael Kidner C466/40/01 F5079A Page 1 F5079 Side A [.....in Hampstead Hill Gardens. It is Saturday, 16th of March 1996, and this is an interview with Michael Kidner.] Let's go back to the very beginning. OK. What do you remember of your grandparents? My grandparents. Well I remember my father's mother who lived in Northampton, and we used to go to visit her on Sundays with my father, my father used to take the family. Very often he would leave us to wander around town while he and my mother went in to talk to her, she was a very old lady at this time, a rather elegant old lady. My mother's grandfather I remember quite well, he used to come and stay with us when he was in his eighties, and he had a white beard and... Well he had been a farmer, he was a farmer from Somerset, and he had moved his farm leaving his eldest son to mind it, to Norfolk, outside of Norwich, and it's still there. A cousin, or is it, I think it's a cousin, I'm not sure of these relationships, is still running it. Anyway, yes he was a rather interesting character in a way. What I remember about him, he enjoyed playing chess very much, but he had great ideas about how the moves were made. I remember he used to hold a stick above the board with a pendulum on it, and it would swing across the board and it would decide his next move. And then a family friend came and stuck this stick in the handle of a, well, so that he wasn't holding it, so then it wouldn't move, and it rather destroyed his notion of the hereafter I suppose, of some...he had some belief, which my mother also had, in life after death, for Oliver Lodge[ph] and that kind of thing, and he was in a way exploring these notions that he had. So, when you were born, how many grandparents did you have living? Only those two. His wife died, I never remember, I don't remember her. © The British Library Board http://sounds.bl.uk Michael Kidner C466/40/01 F5079A Page 2 You had your mother's father and your father's mother. That's right. And were they still living in their own homes? Yes. So, did you...? Well, no, my mother's father did come and live with us, or he lived with different members of his family when he was old. So do you remember what his home was like? What his home? Yes. Well I remember, it was Stoke, the farm in Norfolk, I do remember going there when I was a child, in fact I think it was the first time I stayed away from home, and being horrified because the bath water was yellow, and I had never seen yellow water and it seemed very... I don't know, it's a funny memory. So he was living alone there? Oh no, he was living with...who was running the farm? One of his sons. Yes, they had a farmhouse in the middle of the farm. So what do you remember of what that house looked like, or how it seemed to you? © The British Library Board http://sounds.bl.uk Michael Kidner C466/40/01 F5079A Page 3 Well it was quite a big farmhouse. I was, I mean, as a child, I don't know how old I was, 7, something like that when I went to visit, I remember he had a big lawn in the front and a pony trap which was rather exciting. But I was very homesick and all I remember is counting the days till my parents would come and get me. And, did you only go there once before he moved? We didn't go there very often. My sisters went there quite, more than I did, or my elder brother and sisters. I don't know why, I don't have a strong recollection of the farm at that time. But it was a comfortable old farmhouse? Oh yes. With...? I do remember them making milk in a churn, oh yes, and marvellous ham that they presumably produced, and, yes, they went into market in Norwich every Saturday or something, or Friday, and there was always a bit of to-do about collecting all the stuff that was going to market. But you don't really remember how the house was decorated or what kind of things were in it? It always seemed to me very brown, it was a sort of brown house, and I didn't...it was unfamiliar, that's all I can say, as a child. And I don't remember the house later than that. So your mother was a farmer's daughter? She was a farmer's daughter, quite right. © The British Library Board http://sounds.bl.uk Michael Kidner C466/40/01 F5079A Page 4 So how had she met your father, and what had she done before? Well they were cousins, which was a bit unusual. My mother was, as you say, a farmer's daughter, but she was...she had an affair with an architect. She went to Taunton Art School and I think it was there she met an architect, and she had quite a romantic affair with him, but she had known my father presumably for quite a long time, he had kind of decided she was his favourite cousin I suppose, and she, I guess, married him on the rebound of this affair with the architect. He offered a much safer future I suppose than the architect, so I think...I don't know what...I mean he had been as it were courting her for quite a long time through all this affair, and they got married. So she was brought up in Norfolk but went all the way down to Taunton to go to art school? No, no the farm was just outside of Taunton. Oh I'm sorry, I've got completely... In Devonshire. Right. The original farm, before they moved to Norfolk, and they hadn't moved to Norfolk when she left the house. Right. So, was that before the First World War? Oh yes, it was...well my eldest brother I think was born in 1909, so, yes, it was quite early. I remember, or she remembers, driving to Islip House from the railway station, she arrived on the railway, and then was met by horse and carriage and driven, and that was what, 1908 or 9, well 1908. © The British Library Board http://sounds.bl.uk Michael Kidner C466/40/01 F5079A Page 5 Was that quite unusual for someone to go to art school from that background? I don't know. She didn't...she didn't make a lot of noise about that. Was she one of a big family? Yes, quite a big family, oh yes, she had, oh three brothers... No I think it was about eight in the family. And other ones stayed on the farm? Uncles and aunts. Well three of her brothers all set up farms in Norfolk; the eldest brother remained in Somerset. And they all did very well as farmers, one of them specialised in chickens, one of them in cattle, in bulls, breeding, and a third one in apples - no, in asparagus eventually.
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