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A TwoMorrows Publication No. 3, Fall 2013

The New Voice of the Comics Medium # TM & © DC Comics

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also inside: Sean Howe • Earl Norem • • Les Daniels • Fall 2013 • The New Voice of the Comics Medium • Number 3 table of contents

Ye Ed’s Rant: Hero worship — the pathetic allegiance of many comics fans...... 2 BAT-W©©dy CBC mascot by J.D. King Comics Chatter ©2013 J.D. King. Sean Howe’s Untold Story: The bestselling author talks with Ye Ed About Our about his acclaimed history of “The House of Ideas,” now in paperback...... 4 Cover Incoming: Kerfluffles & kudos dominate our first letters column...... 10 Art by The Good Stuff: The Fifth Beatle, a new about Color by CORY ADAMS, the Fab Five(!), is examined by Jorge Khoury...... 14 Continuity Studios Hembeck’s Dateline: Our Man Fred chats with some of the audacious artist’s memorable characters about Hair — we mean, Herr Adams...... 17 Aushenkerology: Complete with gallery, Michael Aushenker talks with legendary cover painter Earl Norem...... 18 Irving on the Inside: Part one of a Mark Waid career retrospective by Christopher Irving covering the work of the renowned scripter...... 22 REMEMBRANCE Les Daniels, Facts & Fictions: Part two of a look at an amazingly creative life...... 28 L’Amour, Mon Amour: A look at the new Louis L’Amour graphic novel adaptation..... 35

Batman TM & © DC Comics. Dysart Out of Africa: Michael Aushenker interviews writer Joshua Dysart about With superb hues by Continuity his popular , visiting wartorn Africa, and working with ...... 37 coloring queen Cory Adams, CBC is grateful to feature COVER STORY what was the first version intended as the cover of Neal Neal Adams’ Odyssey: An epic interview with the fabled artist/writer about Adams’ Batman Odyssey his graphic novel, Batman Odyssey, and the man’s response to his critics...... 42 hardcover collection, though the artist decided on a less Creator’s Creators: The Story & Glory of Gentleman Jorge Khoury...... 79 “busy” layout. Revised version below. Thanks to Neal, Cory Coming Attractions: Be here next time when we feature a career-spanning & Continuity Studios! conversation with the great artist and raconteur, !...... 79 A Picture Is Worth A Thousand Words: A remarkable Neal Adams rarity — art you didn’t know he did — Aurora’s 1966 , the Boy Wonder, model kit!...... 80

Right: Detail from Batman Odyssey. Pencils and inks by Neal Adams.

We kid you not! Every issue of Comic Book Creator includes a 16-page (sometimes more!) PDF bonus freesection containing cbc! exclusive material free not found in the cbc! printed edition. Sofree go and get your freecbc! CBC now!

TM & © DC Comics. www.twomorrows.com freestuff Comic Book Creator ™ is published quarterly by TwoMorrows Publishing,/ 10407 Bedfordtown Dr., Raleigh, NC 27614 USA. Phone: (919) 449-0344. Jon B. Cooke, editor. John Morrow, publisher. Comic Book Creator editorial offices: P.O. Box 204, West Kingston, RI 02892 USA. E-mail: [email protected] subscription funds to TwoMorrows, NOT to the editorial offices. Four-issue subscriptions: $36 US, $50 Canada, $65 elsewhere. All characters are © their respective copyright owners. All material © their Comic Book Creator is a proud joint production of creators unless otherwise noted. All editorial matter ©2013 Jon B. Cooke/TwoMorrows. Comic Book Jon B. Cooke/TwoMorrows Creator is a TM of Jon B. Cooke/TwoMorrows. Printed in China. FIRST PRINTING. TM & © DC Comics. comics chatter Howe’s Untold Story The author of : The Untold Story talks about ’s House of Ideas

Interview conducted by Jon B. Cooke CBC Editor then later, other people who had grown up with Stan Lee’s idea of what the Bullpen was kind of willed something like [Thank heaven for the of 2013, when Casa Cooke that into existence in the ’70s and ’80s. Under Mark Gruen- was without power in sub-freezing temperatures and the wald’s watch [in the 1980s], there were actual practical jokes snow was threatening to trap us indoors. Why the gratitude and crazy things going on. for the second disastrous weather event to hit my region CBC: Ultimately, what was the reality of the bullpen overall? in six months? Because the downtime — no electricity, no Sean: One major difference, of course, is that there were a computer — finally gave me a chance to read, old-school lot of people who were doing heavy lifting who weren’t even style, all of Sean Howe’s coming to the office. So that, right there, was a huge gap finely-scribed history of the from what we thought. You didn’t get the idea that people House that Stan, Jack and were working from home in Long Island all the time and Steve built, Marvel Comics: having pages delivered in or walking them in themselves. The Untold Story. Sean and I You thought it was kind of like Santa’s workshop. Another dif- have been in touch for some ference is that there were egos involved. They were actual time and I’m delighted he’s human beings who were interacting with each other and that agreed to be interviewed is always going to have some drama. Some people get along in Comic Book Creator. The better than others and some people feel unrecognized and -based author’s some people get a better deal out of things. bestselling tome, now in I don’t want to concentrate too much on the negativity. its seventh printing as It’s just that there was that schism between what everybody hardback, is imminently due grew up thinking about it and this Utopian community that for paperback release. We couldn’t possibly have been real. I don’t particularly think spoke via phone on June 10 that working for Marvel in 1974 was a bad place to work; I and Sean copy-edited the just think there is something that’s thrilling about uncovering Q&A for accuracy and clari- the mystery behind… I don’t know about you, but Marvel ty. Steven “” Thompson Comics was one of the first workplaces into which I felt like I provided the transcription. had a peek. There was the school where my parents worked — Ye Editor] and then there was reading about Marvel. I was like, “This sounds amazing! If you grow up and you want to work in a Comic Book Creator: fun place, this is perfection!” So I guess that roots itself so How’d the idea for Marvel deeply in your mind that you really want to know what the Comics: The Untold Story truth was. come about? CBC: What’s your background? Sean Howe: It was really Sean: I worked in film. I worked at a DVD company called just a book I was waiting the Criterion Collection for a few years. So that certainly for other people to do. I’d served me well in terms of having a real feel for archival say for 10 years I’d been research. reading a lot of interviews CBC: What movies did you work on? in publications like Comic Sean: Only a couple hundred. [laughs] The ones I felt the Book Artist and thinking that closest to were the movies of John Cassavetes. I worked for there was a great shadow a long time on a box set of five of his films. Everything from history of the company that old Kurosawa to more recent Wes Anderson movies. And wasn’t really been collected a lot of it was just digging for archival material and finding in any one place. Like a lot what had been written about it previously. of comic fans, I grew up CBC: Is most of that digging done on the Web? reading this different version Sean: More and more. In terms of this book, I would say I of what the bullpen was used the Web a lot in order to find the resources that weren’t Above: Courtesy of CBC’s own like, you know? One thing that I’ve said to a lot of people on the Web. Does that make any sense? fantabulous photographer is that learning more about the actual behind-the-scenes For instance, one thing that I might have Googled would Seth Kushner, his portrait of the events was kind of like learning that your uncle had a second be to find out, say, where had given interviews in author in , Sean Howe. family nobody knew about. I was captivated by the idea that the 1970s. The interviews themselves wouldn’t be online but the personalities that I had grown up with functioned a bit I could maybe get a sense of which fanzines he spoke to be- differently than I had thought for all those years. cause, up until very recently, the mainstream media wasn’t CBC: What was your childhood impression of the mighty really paying much attention to Marvel Comics. You can find Sean Howe portrait ©2013 Seth Kushner. Marvel bullpen? a People magazine interview with Stan Lee — you can find Sean: I think exactly what Stan Lee intended. [laughs] It a lot of interviews with Stan Lee — but if you wanted to read was this idea that this place of just laughs and hi-jinks and about what, say, was thinking in the 1970s, creative people just pulling pranks on each other while they you’re going to have to dig quite a bit harder. The Comics did these amazing stories. Certainly there is some truth to Journal interviews will be pretty easy to find, but a lot of the that at different times in the history: earlier, in the ’40s and history is just in mimeographed form and not indexed in any ’50s, there were a lot of guys working together and kind of real way that’s accessible. A lot of libraries have started having a lot of fun with each other all under one roof and keeping collections of old fanzines, which I think is a really

4 #3 • Fall 2013 • Comic Book Creator great thing for researchers and historians. CBC: Thank you. How many interviews did you do yourself? CBC: Judging by the footnotes, TwoMorrows’ publications, Sean: I would say close to 150 interviews, whether or not Alter Ego and CBA, as you mentioned, were a source for the people are actually quoted in the book. material. CBC: The company started as Timely, came from pulp Sean: Yeah, because you and a handful of people at origins, and Martin Goodman was at the of it. What in Below: This mon- TwoMorrows were doing serious interviews with people the general assessment is your view of Marvel Comics as tage of Marvel characters actually who are no longer alive. You got in there at a time where, it started and perhaps the copycat tradition that it had for a appeared in an advertisement generationally, a lot of important creators were fading away. period of time? appearing in the 1982 Overstreet TM & ©2013 Marvel Characters, Inc. It’s a real shame that more people didn’t step up and try to Sean: I guess if you’re talking about the ’40s and ’50s Comic Book Price Guide, though find out the stories of people like Morrie Kuramoto, back versus what came later, I would say that doing the book we found the Mirthful One’s when they could talk. When did Comic Book Artist start? gave me a much, much stronger appreciation of the stuff black-&-white line art gracing Ninety-nine was it? that Timely was doing in the ‘40s. The variety of styles! If you CBC friend ’ book A CBC: Ninety-eight. go through, like, Mystic Comics or one of those anthology Century of Women Cartoonists Sean: Yeah, and I guess that started around the time that comics from the ‘40s, you really get a lot more of the artist’s [1993], and thought it’d be a lark to you were starting to see a lot more interviews online, but sensibility than you would see peeking through post-Jack have our colorist jazz it up with his since you were focusing not on the hot new artists, in many Kirby. Some of that stuff feels like something is just shot Technicolor hues and to have Ye Ed cases, you were the only one who recorded history—as straight from somebody’s Id; it’s almost a kind of art. Photoshop in the trade paperback you know. There’s an amateurishness that I find to be kind of refreshing. cover of Sean’s book. the good stuff The Beat Goes On! A Look at ‘The Fifth Beatle’ Khoury talks to writer Vivek J. Tiwary & artist Andrew C. Robinson about the Fab Five

by JORGE KHOURY CBC Contributing Editor I was writing screenplays or graphic novels or anything like that! I was just a young man looking for research for a Right this way! This is your invitation to the greatest story business blueprint, something for inspiration. I certainly got never told behind the most mammoth musical act of the 20th what I was looking for initially which was the business side century: the Beatles! This November make a reservation to of things — the story about how he managed them initially, be swept away by the new graphic novel entitled The Fifth how he got them a record deal when no one wanted to sign Beatle by writer Vivek J. Tiwary and artist Andrew C. Robin- them, how he convinced Ed Sullivan to book them when son, with a special sequence drawn by ever-present modern Sullivan wasn’t interested, how he put them in their suits and master . The lavish novella earnestly captures the suggested the haircuts. All of that is in the book and that’s a triumphs and tragedies behind the shortened life of Brian wonderful story in and of itself but it was really the human Epstein: manager, discoverer and champion of the Beatles. side of his story that deeply connected for me.” The story behind this book began more than 20 years ago To the public, much about the inner workings of Brian for Vivek Tiwary, way before his great successes as the pro- Epstein is pretty much a mystery. Like the Beatles, he was ducer of popular Broadway shows like Green Day’s Amer- a Liverpudlian, but unlike them he came from an a success- Below: Wraparound cover art by ican Idiot and The Addams Family, with an epiphany that ful business-oriented family, served in the army, studied Andrew C. Robinson for The Fifth came to him during his business school days. Remembering in boarding schools, and even trained to be actor at the Beatle: The Brian Epstein Story, back, Tiwary recalls, “I was in business school and I couldn’t prestigious Royal Academy of Dramatic Art. In typical un- conceived and written by Vivek J. believe that I couldn’t find out more information about this derachiever fashion, he quit acting to fall back managing the Tiwary and illustrated by Robinson guy [Epstein] so it became like a mystery to uncover. You music section of North End Music Stores, his family’s depart- with Kyle Baker. The graphic novel, could find out anything about the Beatles, why was there ment store. He proved himself to have such a great knack published by Dark Horse, is avail- so little information about their manager? So I went about for retailing music that his family soon opened a second able in stores on Nov. 19. Courtesy doing this research, tracking down old newspaper articles, store for young Epstein to manage. On Nov. 6, 1961, Epstein’s of Tiwary Entertainment Group, Ltd. contacting people who knew him, and this was long before entire word changed upon seeing the Beatles perform at the now legendary Cavern Club. Pretty much from the first sight and sound of the band, he was a believer of the tremendous talent and charisma projected from the lads. By Jan. ’62, Epstein — having never managed a band before — became the Beatles manager, one deter- mined to take them to the top of the stratosphere. Various Beatles comics have been done before but never one with the amount of passion and energy that’s been given to this project from its creators. For writer/ entrepreneur Tiwary, this is a personal project with decades of research, one that began before the notion of ever creating a proper book took place, which simply started as a look at © 2013 Tiwary Entertainment Group LTD. Epstein’s incredible success with the Fab Four. As a fan of the comics medium, Tiwary knew he could tell his story in the manner he saw fit with artistic eloquence and without any constraints. Tiwary explained, “When I first started thinking about

14 #3 • Fall 2013 • Comic Book Creator aushenkerology The Deadly Painting Hand of Earl Norem Long before , the painter endowed super-heroes with hyper-realism

by Michael Aushenker CBC Associate Editor ists and worked on the interior. But it was the Norem wrapper, a Bruce Lee nunchuk scene, that Imagine the great master artists Jacques-Louis David, Leon- hinted at the spectacular covers to come, which depicted ardo Da Vinci, Caravaggio, Raphael, Titian, and Michelangelo Shang-Chi (starting with #9), the White Tiger (#27) and Iron Buonarroti applying their realist aesthetics to the Marvel Fist (#29) in colorful, hyper-realistic, fully rendered glory not universe. seen within the pen-and-inked pages of Marvel Comics. This might be an exaggerated notion, but that’s kind of Norem took to Deadly Hands following a few issues each by Below: Photo of Earl Norem in his what it felt like as a kid when artists such as Bob Larkin, Har- cover artists Neal Adams and Larkin. Connecticut studio in 2007. We’re old Shull, Luis Dominguez, and took to characters On the fifth of May in 2011 (when this interview was con- unsure of the origin of this pic, so if such as Shang-Chi, , The Incredible ducted by phone), through the window of his country home you know the photographer, please , and with a painter’s brush. King among in the Northeast, Earl Norem can see a wild turkey running get in touch with Ye Crusading Editor. these Marvel magazine cover artists was Earl Norem. up the hill. Norem, 88, has made Connecticut his home for many decades, first in Wilton (“For 11 years… It got to be a bedroom town for New York commuters and got really expensive”), then New Milford, where he lives today with his wife of 62 years, Margaret (whom everyone calls “Peggy”). Norem’s daughter, Andrea, is a teacher, and his grandson, currently attending Connecticut Univer- sity, aspires to be an art teacher. He no doubt learned a lot from his gramps. Born in the Bay Ridge area of Brooklyn, New York, Norem grew up in Bayside, Long Island, where, he tells us with a laugh, “I always drew everything. My dad used to say, ‘Hey stop that drawing and do your math.’” “I used to copy these super-heroes and things and then make up my own super-heroes. I was pretty good at figures.” Norem majored for a year-and-a- half in engineering at University of Vermont before he entered TM & ©2013 Marvel Characters, Inc. the military during World War II. It was during this time that he Inset right: Earl Norem’s sombre Today, talented guys such as Dave met his wife of seven decades. Rampaging Hulk #9 [June 1978] Johnson (), Arthur Suydam “The guy that I roomed with cover painting features the orig- (Marvel Zombies), Michael Komarck at University of Vermont, he was inal “Earth’s Mightiest Heroes.” (Doctor Solar, Man of the ), and, an [agriculture] student but he Below: Poster from Masters of most famously, Alex Ross (Kingdom stayed on the farm,” Norem says. the Universe Magazine #1 [Winter Come) have made painted covers on “He rented a farm in Vermont from 1985]. Art by Earl Norem. standard format comics a routine people from New Jersey. They had event. But in the 1970s, there were a paint factory. He needed paint. less than a handful of artists tackling We went to this fellow’s house and such assignments. You had the there was Peg. She was staying Larkins and the Norems painting with her aunt and uncle, going to characters on the covers of the secretarial school. Our eyes met and Marvel magazines (which escaped that was it.” the comics code and suggested Throughout his conversation, more adult — sexual and violent — Norem, upbeat and good humored, fare) and paperback reprints. Back punctuates the end of every other then, when you saw one of those sentence with a rheumy laugh (he had magical covers, it was more novel, recently come down with a bad cold). more special. Norem no longer takes professional as-

With his enchanted paint brush, Norem brought to life signments. In fact, he rarely picks up a brush these days. He-Man TM & ©2013 Mattel Inc. an array of characters that graced the covers of magazines Cataracts and arthritis have caught up with him and robbed such as Planet of the Apes, Monsters Unleashed, Drac- him of the artistic gifts of his youth. These days, he observes ula Lives!, Rampaging Hulk, Tales of the Zombie, Marvel his professional career through the rear-view mirror. Preview, Savage Sword of Conan, and, in the 1980s, He-Man Yet Norem delights to hear that he still has many fans out and the Masters of the Universe. there in the world who delight in what he has achieved. His He first hit The Deadly Hands of Kung Fu with the Dec. thoughts about fame, punctuated with a chuckle: “When I 1974’s #7. Within those covers, writer and art- needed it, I didn’t have it.” — M.A.

18 #3 • Fall 2013 • Comic Book Creator irving on the inside The Wild Ride of Writer Mark Waid Part 1: The scribe talks with Chris Irving about murder, mischief, and heroes remade Photo ©2013 Anne Peterson. by CHRISTOPHER IRVING CBC Contributing Editor Mark Waid majored at a bit of everything at Virginia Commonwealth University in Richmond in the late ‘70s. One “It is the luck of the draw and I haven’t the foggiest notion,” semester it was broadcast journalism; another English; or Mark Waid admits. “I wish there were some I knew chemistry — or even physics. His one stability (and the one to pass along, but you just keep slugging away. Any piece bit of college he always comes back to) was as a disc jockey of ‘wisdom’ or advice I can at WVCW (820 am). His handle was . This give about how to stay in this Alabama-born kid quickly learned the chief industry of the business, you could point out former capital of the Confederacy: tobacco. a dozen other people who “One night, two guys just show up at the station like used to write comics and the Men in Black. I was expecting them to talk into their don’t anymore who did the sleeves,” Mark remembers. It was an offer he wouldn’t be same things and are now able to refuse — at least not at first. “They wanted to talk working at Chick-Fil-A. You to the radio personalities, and were from RJ Reynolds with have to be somewhat affable, a marketing plan: They were looking for volunteers to go understand what an editor around from hotel lounge to hotel lounge in the area, doing a needs without sacrificing little nightclub act, sing a few Bobby Darin tunes, and extol what you need to do… By the virtues of Lucky Strikes (or whatever it was they were working on both sides of the selling at the time). It was half nightclub act/half Tupperware desk, I understand how all party, because you were supposed to gin up enthusiasm sides of publishing work. I from the boozers by doing tricks and party stunts with know that as a freelancer, cigarettes. I was in college, and they were offering $200 a my first job is to tell a good week for a few weeks, two to three nights a week. That was story, but my second job is to good money in college. They hooked me up with this cranky make my editor’s life as easy old man who said all of six words to me the entire time, and as I can. I don’t know if that we’d drive to a Holiday Inn or Ramada on the outskirts of helps. Everything moves in Richmond and he’d play the piano and I’d do some tunes. I Above: Mark Waid as lensed by cycles. I’ve been telling very hopeful and uncynical stories was Bill Murray doing his SNL lounge-lizard act. Anne Petersen, taken at the throughout my career, and maybe it’s just that there seems to TM & © DC Comics. 2010 first anniversary be a place for that in comics right now.” party hosted by Challengers This is the funny thing about Mark Waid: his uncyn- Comics at C2E2 in Chicago. ical super-hero comics have never come when there Used with permission. was a time or place for them in comics. That’s probably the secret to their success. He first made waves as the writer of in 1992, when the “grim and gritty” catchphrase was fast on its way to becoming the cliché it is today; conflict was replaced with baseless angst, and superhuman feats were replaced with splash page sized ass-kicking. Watchmen and Dark Knight Returns, for all their virtue, ignited the trend towards “darker” heroes that still sprouts up in the minds of less creative talent. Waid’s Flash argu- ably paved the way for more inspiring super-hero works to happen, like writer ’s take on , or and painter Alex Ross’ and (with the fantastic art of ). Waid and Ross’ Kingdom Come is a commentary on the “post- modernist” age of cynical heroes in a classically wrapped narrative package. Inset right: Mark Waid made a So why isn’t he a washed up has-been grousing about splash in Flash back in the early how the market changed too much around him? That Waid 1990s, focusing on the multiple found a way to change with the evolving comics market and manifestations of the character culture is as good a guess as any. The truth, from his own and with emphasis on the, umm, admission, is that he just doesn’t know how he’s kept going. heroics of being a super-hero. Mark Waid, even going back to college, hasn’t always Cover art to Flash #0 [Oct. 1994] by known what the he was doing — but that’s likely what’s Mark’s frequent collaborator, the kept him learning throughout his life and career, and able to late Mike Wieringo (pencils) and keep coming back for more. Jose Marzan, Jr. (inks).

22 #3 • Fall 2013 • Comic Book Creator Les Daniels Funnybook Facts & Frightful Fiction The conclusion of CBC’s examination of the Twentieth Century Renaissance Man ©2013 the respective copyright holder.. by JON B. COOKE CBC Editor count, is a remarkably comprehensive history of horror in all its forms — literature, drama, film, comic books, even rock I’m certain the last time I saw music — from antiquity to the present. It is encyclopedic, Leslie Noel Daniels III was on accurate, and written with obvious relish… it could virtually , at my friend serve as a sort of 50-year update of Lovecraft’s Supernatural Rob Yeremian’s Time Capsule Horror in Literature [1927] — if, of course, one can imagine shop, in Cranston, RI, when Les Lovecraft discussing E.C. Comics and Alice Cooper.“ pulled up with longtime pal John Living in Fear was Les’s 1975 follow-up to his first book, “The Mad” Peck. Invariably the study Comix: A History of Comic Books in America, pub- choosing the E.C. and Disney lished in 1971. “[It] was based on the fact this was something freebies, he asked me to come I was interested in,” Daniels told the Australian horror ’zine visit him more often and shared a Tabula Rasa in 1995. “In a way, it’s dated and superseded litany of medical woes plaguing now, there were fairly few books even on horror films back his aging body. But, whether too then. But what makes it more unique now is that, in addition busy or improperly attentive to the to discussing most of the significant English language horror notion of friendship, I never again films made up ’til that time, it also tried to deal with the graced his Benefit Street base- literature, going back to the Gothic novel and so on.” To that ment apartment and, quite likely end, Les not only featured a number of prose short stories by on Halloween 2011, the brilliant authors that included Poe, Lovecraft, Ambrose Bierce, and writer and astute historian died Richard Matheson, but he also reprinted the and alone, his body left undiscovered Jack Davis comic-book tale “The Model Nephew” [Haunt of for a number of days. Fear #22, Nov.–Dec. 1953], giving E.C. Comics equal stature Sad as that demise sounds, to the work of the greatest of supernatural fiction writers. Les had an existence filled with A companion volume, Dying of Fright, appeared the next achievement and life-spanning year, an anthology of horror stories exquisitely illustrated (by friendships. He was admired, to Lee Brown Coye, whom editor Daniels called, “[P]erhaps the the end and beyond, by those most important living American illustrator in the domain of in the disparate fields of horror the macabre”). Les’s longtime friend and horror anthologist fiction and comic books as one Bob Booth said, of the finest minds and writing “If you had to talents ever in popular culture. In the first issue of this writer’s short-lived horror ’zine, Tekeli-li! Above: Les Daniels’ finest Journal of Terror [Spring 1991], much of it devoted to achievement, the 1978 horror Daniels, it was written, “Les is a rare bird. While fame novel The Black Castle: A Novel and riches have so far been elusive, he has earned a of the Macabre, which introduced reputation among fellow professionals as an admired writer his vampire (anti-)hero. Horror and a contemporary master of the [horror] genre. Stephen writer Chet Williamson said, “His King says that Daniels ‘tells one hell of a story. His leading vampire, Don Sebastian books are rewarding, creepy and fun.’ Robert de Villanueva, is one of the few [Psycho] Bloch recently wrote to say, ‘Les is tragic heroes of late 20th century truly a major force in the field!’ Submitting fiction, and with him Les pulls off Living in Fear: A History of Horror in the another splendid trick, which is Mass Media as evidence, Les is also to make us feel repelled by him horror’s most insightful (and fun-to- TM & © DC Comics. Art ©2013 Tim Estiloz. even as we identify with his dark read) historian.” grandeur.” The undead protago- No less than S.T. Joshi, noted nist would star in all of Les’s five Lovecraft scholar and supernatural novels. Inset right: It’s Plastic fiction expert, in a chapter devoted Les! As depicted by artist Tim Estiloz, the cartoon portrait of the to the Brown-educated author within author — in the guise of Les’s Joshi’s 2004 survey, The Evolution of the favorite comic book character — Weird Tale, wrote of Living in Fear, “The originally appeared in a Boston most important thing to realize about Daniels Phoenix profile by Tamara Wieder is that he was already a thorough student of the field before in Feb. 2002. Coloring is by CBC’s he began to enrich it with his own novels. Living in Fear, coveted Clandestine Colorist. although on the surface a ‘popular’ and non-scholarly ac- Special thanks to Mr. Estiloz for its appearance here. Portrait Photography by Beth Gwinn 28 #3 • Fall 2013 • Comic Book Creator chatterbox L’Amour, Mon Amour A New Medium for the Old West & Co. present the first graphic novel adaptation of Louis L’Amour

by Jon B. Cooke CBC Editor and terrifically impressed with the book, set out to talk I’m in Southern California this past summer, moseying down with the famous author’s artists’ alley at Comic-Con International 2013, and I’m a sad, son, Beau L’Amour, who was sombre hombre. This here’s my first San Diego in a few years intimately involved with the and the aisles might as well have been the dusty dirt roads of project since its inception. a town. Oh yeah, there are plenty of creators there, but “My father wrote the short few I knew from the good ol’ days and most of ’em not but story, ‘Law of the Desert young greenhorns. I was one lonely desperado. Born,’ in the late 1940s and it Suddenly I hear a “Hey, you!” and yonder there’s my pal was published in a pulp mag- from cons of yesteryear Thomas Yeates waving me over to azine,” Beau said. “I think it his booth. Thomas is one of the finest comic book artists I was the third Western he’d know, an expert delineator of , Tarzan, Zorro, ever written.” After Louis’ Timespirits, and — yee-haw! — current artist on maybe phenomenal success — with the most revered Sunday strip, Prince Valiant. And he’s also over 200 million copies of his one of the kindest, most warm-hearted dudes I’ve ever met; novels in circulation! — it compassionate and a nice guy. Well, cowpokes, he wanted was decided to produce to know if I knew of any mags who might help promote a new audio books as if they were graphic novel he had just finished drawing. “Well now,” says oldtime radio plays, and that I, tugging at my whiskers and eyes roaming up to the hall was when the junior L’Amour rafters, “let me chew that one over a bit, Thomas…” came into the picture. “I was producing and writing the Tales of the old West, scripts to some of these and whether dubbed Westerns I had several writers working or, as the late legendary for me who were doing even author Louis L’Amour pre- more,” Beau explained. ferred them called, “frontier “I had handed Law of the stories,” have been a staple Desert Born off to Katherine of the Nolan but, although she was since the dawn of the form. a really competent writer, Particularly popular during she wrote a that was the 1950s, when cowpokes quite a bit too long. At first and gunslingers abounded on we were sure we could cut black-&-white televisions it but, ultimately, the two of us had to recreate the entire Above: Thomas Yeates’ cover art nationwide, Westerns are story in a completely new adaptation. It was a very exciting for the new graphic novel — the still, at present, a viable if process because we had very little time before we had to be first adapting a Louis L’Amour story, somewhat scarce category. in the recording studio. A few years later, we decided to try Law of the Desert Born. Ye Ed calls Today, it’s apt to be a mash- the story as a screenplay… it was only years after that, long it a perfect coupling of artist to up with other genres, as with after the program where Kathy and I worked together had story. The humanity and sensitivity East of West (science-fic- been scaled back, that I rewrote it as a comic book.” of Thomas Yeates shines through tion), High Moon (horror) or Okay, Westerns have been a longtime staple in comics, the expert storytelling. Inset “” (weirdness). but L’Amour had never been adapted, so why now? “To start left: Thomas’ pencils to a panel Rarer is a straight story of with, we hadn’t done one,” said Beau. “It’s one of the mar- from the book, courtesy of Beau those frontier times, straight kets that my dad [who passed away in 1988], so far, hasn’t L’Amour, Louis’ son and a major in setting, with the charac- appeared in. Also, the marketplace for comics seems like the creative force behind the project. Below: Louis L’Amour [1908-88] as ters and in the telling, with paperback book business did in the heyday of genre fiction, painted by Fred Pfeiffer. no dystopian landscape or the 1950s through the ’80s. That sort of bookseller enthusi- lycanthropic howling or hy- asm and customer feedback is infectious. A great deal of per-violent weirdness… But the rest of today’s entertainment landscape is very jaded. suddenly there comes along On the aesthetic side, I like telling stories in pictures. I was Law of the Desert Born, the trained as a filmmaker and worked in the movie business on first graphic novel adaptation and off for quite a few years. Law of the Desert Born was a of a Louis L’Amour story, an film script at one time and I wrote it with a great deal of care authentic, understated and, as to how it would be shot… making the switch to a graphic well, dignified comic book novel was really not at all like laying out a movie, but there story of posses and rustling are similarities. It’s still telling a story in pictures and I find and lingering resentment. the efficacy and subtlety of that appealing. In many ways, I This writer, prompted by a now like comics better than film; once you have accepted desire to help out a good pal the realities of the medium, the compromises are far fewer.” ©2013 Louis L’Amour Enterprises, Inc. ©2013 Louis L’Amour

Comic Book Creator • Fall 2013 • #3 35 the art of darkness Dysart Out of Africa The Known Writer Soldiers On Our associate editor sits down for a chat with the acclaimed Harbinger scripter

by Michael Aushenker CBC Associate Editor its hooks in me, I couldn’t stop. I’m still struggling to be a great comic book writer now, every time I sit down, so [The following interview was conducted at the Venice, somewhere along the line, I fell in love with it. I think California home of comics writer Joshua Dysart on March that when it’s all said and done I’ll feel remiss, or re- 13, 2013, a week before his latest title in those late winter gret, if I don’t feel I’ve managed to achieve something days, Harbinger #10, made it into the hands of readers.] of meaning in comics. I do have the desire to write in other mediums, but comics is first. He saw it coming… and he tried to warn me. As far as documentaries go, I like the old school Writer Joshua Dysart didn’t have to be Peter Stanchek, form, like the Maysles Brothers. People who were the telekinetic psiot star of Harbinger, his current gig at the artists and journalists. I’m not a big fan of Michael resurrected Valiant Entertainment, to know that penciling in Moore or Morgan Spurlock, or film that puts its a discussion of his diverse adventures in comic book writing filmmaker at the center and doesn’t struggle for was going to be a bitch. contrary meaning. The documentary form is almost Dysart’s a busy man, and even after it took a solid two sacred to me, so I’m pretty opinionated about how it months of message tag to nail down a sit down with the should be done. writer, there was no abating of his priority and goal: writing CBC: What about screenplays? Are you interested great comics eschewing current trends in “mainstream” in writing movies? (translation: super-hero) comics. Joshua: I will write a screenplay someday. I’m That said, there was one industry-wide trend he could very interested in it. But comics come first. And I’ll not escape and that’s the intra-company . Nearly never leave comics, even if I do a year into writing Harbinger, Dysart found himself in the write scripts. You know, I also want midst of coordinating a cross-title storyline called Harbinger to write a novel. But I’ve struggled Wars, pulling together storylines from his book and Valiant’s too hard to get to a certain place other two series, X-O Manowar and Bloodshot. He co-wrote craft-wise in this medium. Plus, the four-issue mini-series, which launched on April 3, with there’s just nothing like the feeling , and and Clayton Crain when a beautiful comic page on art. comes in. On March 30, at Wondercon Anaheim, Valiant an- CBC: So, growing up, were you nounced Dysart will be writing exclusively for the Los more into movies and music than Angeles-based publisher. comics? Sure enough, the moment when I entered his Venice Joshua: I never really wanted to bachelor pad, a stone’s throw from the internationally known be a writer at all, but I was always and trampled on Venice Beach Boardwalk (think “Hollywood writing. I grew up in Corpus Christi, Boulevard by the sea”), Dysart was fielding calls from his . As a very young kid, I was editor and his artist, going over the fine points of a Harbinger a total cinephile. Back then I had story. One line of debate: some character dialogue about to special order VHS tapes in the “going crazy,” as opposed to “going mad.” “Nobody really mail if I was going to watch Juliett says they’re going mad, do they?” Dysart asks. of the Spirits or something, and After some back-&-forth between him and his Valiant my mom had a VHS top-loader, the peeps, Dysart carved a couple of hours out of a very busy kind with the remote control teth- day to discuss an eclectic and multifarious career that, in ered by a thick cord, the very first roughly two decades, has included everything from DC’s VHS recorder on the block. I had a Swamp Thing to a -supervised spin-off cousin from Austin, Texas, he was at Dark Horse to DC/Vertigo’s re-imagined Unknown Soldier. my introduction to foreign cinema. Although his body of work so far has consisted of an amal- He came down with stacks of VHS gam of hired-gun gigs, Dysart has made a name for himself tapes and I’d watch them all week- as a writer who can breathe a personal voice into these end long. Now the tools to both assignments. Always charming, conversational, jocular, find older films and make movies blunt, and as opinionated as a film critic, Dysart sat down are the price of pen and paper…

TM & ©2013 Valiant Entertainment. TM & ©2013 Valiant to discuss his diverse career –– including his interesting which is crazy. As I look back, I see detours writing comics based on concepts by musicians Neil it was all training for comics. Above: One of the hot books at Young and Avril Lavigne (!!) — before making another call Don’t get me wrong. Comics are not cinema, and I’ve the moment is Harbinger, scripted coordinated with East Coast time and jumping back into the worked really, really hard to make sure my comics aren’t by our interview subject, Joshua busy ether.... just movies on paper. But actually thinking in pictures. Being Dysart. Here’s the cover art, sans visual first. I did learn that from films and comics. Think trade dress, of Harbinger #1 [June CBC: From what I understand, you are an “accidental about what I do. I take an image that’s in my head, I codify 2012], sporting art by Arturo Lozzi. comic book writer” who kind of stumbled into the field. it into text, I give it to my artist, the artist decodes it through Overlap is a detail from #9’s cover Joshua: My first love is documentary films. But, yeah, I his/her filters, through his/her experience, and then it comes [Feb. ’13], by Khari Evans, featuring accidentally became a comic book writer. And once it got back to me decoded through that artist’s own filters and Zephyr, an unconventional hero.

Comic Book Creator • Fall 2013 • #3 37 SPOILER WARNING! Interview Conducted by Jon B. Cooke cbc editor For those readers who have not yet read Batman Odyssey in its Transcribed by Brian K. Morris with steven thompson entirety, it behooves you to read it thoroughly to get the maximum Portrait Photography by Seth Kushner pleasure out of Neal’s analysis and explanation, though that’s obviously not a prerequisite eal Adams is, by nature, a fighter. Born and bred in , he hit the sidewalks for the adventurous among us. Many details, including the of Manhattan to break into the comics industry during a time when the field wasn’t hiring graphic novel’s sensational denouement are discussed at young talent. So, after going a few rounds in the advertising arena and upon winding up a length herein… so don’t say you weren’t warned, folks! career as the youngest cartoonist to work on a nationally syndicated newspaper comic strip (Ben Casey), the tenacious artist finally gained entry in comics, and he settled in at DC, where he soon emerged a celebrated artist. During those early years, he also rocked the House of Ideas and, at both DC and Marvel, he sparred for more innovative production techniques. Then he jumped into the fray for creators rights, whether through the Academy of Comic Book Arts, battling for better treatment of freelancers, or for the benefit of two creators down for the count — a pair of Cleveland mugs who started the whole blamed super-hero genre, Jerome Siegel and , the originators of . By then Neal was back in advertising, only now with his own art agency, and also became a comics publisher himself with Continuity. Lately he’s decided to again lend his two-fisted talents as artist-slash-writer to the “Big Two,” having recently drawn

a X-Men mini-series and made an ambitious return to a certain Darknight Detective. Photo ©2013 Seth Kushner. With Batman Odyssey though, Neal has taken a pummeling by remarkably vicious critics on the Internet, and, lacing his rhetorical boxing gloves, he invited CBC to visit for his pugilistic, scrappy retort. — Ye Ed.

42 #3 • Fall 2013 • Comic Book Creator Inset left: The cover of All- Batman Odyssey, the 325-page graphic novel written and illustrated by Neal Adams, returns the author to a character with whom he is deeply New Collector’s Edition #C-56, associated. During his 1960s–’70s tenure, Adams had snatched the Caped Crusader from his TV camp persona and returned him to his roots as a better known as Superman vs. menace on crime, only now endowed with feral masculinity and depicted with panache. The book examines whether the crimefighter would ever kill Muhammad Ali, Neal Adams’ an opponent and why he refuses to wield firearms, and it features a plethora of characters from Neal’s earlier years on the series — Ra’s al Ghul, 1978 masterwork that, until Talia, , Sensei and his League of Assassins, Man-Bat — and, of course, Robin and the regulars… never mind the usual Arkham Batman Odyssey, the artist/ Asylum gallery of villains, and a surprise guest or two. Batman’s quest takes him literally into an underworld and plot elements include such diverse writer considered his best work. subjects as peak oil and imperialism. By Neal’s admission, it is a dense and complex story. To some, it is confusing. To us, it is nothing if not ambitious. The oversize comic book edited by , also contains Comic Book Creator: It’s a quarter to eleven and we’re at Continuity the talents of Dennis O’Neil (sto- Studios in New York City. It’s a slushy Friday morning in early March and ry), inks by , Terry we’re here to talk to Neal Adams about his 13-issue series, Batman Odyssey. Austin and Steve Mitchell; colors Neal Adams: People have been asking at conventions, “What’s the best by Neal’s then-wife Cory; letters by Gaspar Saladino. And, oh project that you ever worked on?” Or yeah, knock ’em out of the galaxy “What’s the best thing you ever did?” artwork and scripting by some And it actually doesn’t take me long these guy named Neal Adams…. days to find the answer. I apologize and say, Left: Vignette (and flopped) detail “I don’t want this to sound like an ego thing, of the super-hero in question, because there are some taken from Batman Odyssey things that I am a big fan of. I #1 [Dec. 2010]. Art, of course, like Batman: The Killing Joke. by Neal Adams. Colors by I like Batman: (but I don’t Continuity Studios. know if Hush is as much a novel, a continuous story, as much as it is a series of “incidents” Batman goes through). When I consider everything I’ve done, I thought, up to now, Superman vs. Muhammad Ali [All-New Collectors’ Edition #C-56, 1978] was the best comic book/semi-graphic novel that’s out there. Superman vs. Ali was a contrived project that [editor] Julie Schwartz threw at us that he wanted to do. Even though Denny [O’Neil] started the writing, I ended up doing the whole job. Denny wrote some pages — they were good and I kept as much of what he did, as I could but, essentially, I did the job. It was my plot. Julie chose mine, which was similar to Denny’s. Because I did a syndicated strip [Ben Casey] before this, before comic books, I did projects while working at Johnstone & Cushing [shop specializing in comics for advertising and magazine clients] that were full-out stories (like for the National Guard and clients like that), I was All images and characters TM & © DC Comics.

Comic Book Creator • Fall 2013 • #3 43 mentally used to the long-form because of that and because of other reasons, it turned out TM & © DC Comics. and not used to the short story to be such a good read; people bring it to me all the time now form (not that I haven’t done at conventions. short stories). Whitman licensed the right to print and sell hundreds of But even when you con- thousands of copies in their stores, and elsewhere. Now, sider “Deadman” that I did currently, DC Comics has reprinted it in a small form and a [in ], it’s medium-large form. (The small form is of course silly… It’s actually all one story and it’s meant to be big.) about Deadman in the end CBC: Oh, they reprinted it in a large form? and not about these little Neal: Oh, yeah. It’s really nice. incidents that you usually CBC: [Notices it in bookcase] I think it’s right there. find in comic books. Even Neal: You have a good eye, kiddo. [Jon retrieves a copy though certain writers got from bookshelf and thumbs through it] into it early on, like [Bob] CBC: It looks nice. Kanigher and . Neal: That’s it. Okay, flip through it. It’s a gorgeous product As I took over, I was doing and it’s a good story. And there are so many things in there, this long, continuous story all these things that, as a fan, were great fun. This is the only about Deadman, which Superman project I ever did and I think it’s maybe one of the I considered was what best. (Jim Lee just revisited the Superman blasting through the book was about and an alien spaceship in a four-page foldout in Superman probably why people Unchained #1, a theme that we find in Superman vs. liked it… or not. Muhammad Ali.) Previously I had CBC: Well, you know me. I devoted two major pieces to this done The Spectre [in Comic Book Artist Special Edition #1 and CBA Collection for Julie Schwartz. I #1]. Arlen [Schumer] and I came to Continuity to talk to you assisted Mike Fried- about this specifically. rich to get his story Neal: Right. through by extending CBC: And I think it’s the best thing you’ve ever done. the story a little bit. Neal: And notice stuff that people have revisited since Then I got to write then? How many times have you seen that kind of a scene Spectre. [pointing to the opening city street spread] by many artists in the field? You know, never been done before, there you go, My first scripted story [The first time. For example, a massive alien armada headed to Above: In this issue of Spectre #4, May–June 1968] invade the Earth in Superman vs. Muhammad Ali for The Spectre, #4 [May–June has become a bit of a classic the first time. How many times have we seen scenes 1968], Neal contributes his first and contains a theme that has like this since then? comic book script, “Stop That been used by other writers. It’s There’s a joy to it, you know. But it’s also a Kid… Before He Wrecks the called “Stop That Kid… Before He good story and when you see the two, [Super- World,” a pyschedelic, cosmic trip Wrecks the World.” Then I began a man and Muhammad Ali] shake hands at worthy of Ken Kesey and his Merry double-length story that had to do with a the end, you go, “Well, that’s kind of Pranksters! This comic book also character called the Psycho Pirate. Then I hokey, but you know, I like it.” It’s a contains scathing attacks on Neal was given the choice to go on to “Deadman” very warm-feeling thing and for the artist as letter hacks flood the or stay with The Spectre, I chose “Deadman.” other reasons, for example, LOC pages with “dump Adams” I grew up with these six-page and eight- in terms of racial relations demands: “If you keep Neal Adams page comic book stories that drove me nuts in America. [Kris Adams on as regular Spectre artist, The as a reader. I never got enough story. So Stone, Neal’s daughter, Spectre is dead”; “I am sorry, but when I did Superman vs. Muhammad comes into the room] Neal Adams does not have it”; “Neal Adams artwork was just Ali, I was already mentally ready to CBC: Right. terrible”; and “Neal Adams is do a long story. It was a little short, Neal: People weren’t okay — but compared to Murphy but essentially, a story in which doing it that much by then. Anderson, nothing.” Yikes! I got to introduce Muhammad And Ali was considered by Ali as a comic book char- some Americans to be a acter while still being the hero and by some, to be not Champion of the World. I got so much of a hero; except to reintroduce Superman, the rest of the world outside Clark Kent, , Jimmy of America considered this Olsen, an intergalactic war, a to be a fantastic project. threat to our universe. I got CBC: Was it translated? to reintroduce Superman, Neal: Oh, into many lan- kind of, because his powers guages. were taken away and then CBC: That’s wonderful. suddenly his powers burst Neal: Every country made a spe- back. I got to do that. In the end, that comic book, for cial deal for it. [Points to spread] me, is a really terrific comic book that came out of the Look at that. Look at all the work that ashes of Julie Schwartz’s insane belief that we can do a did in the background. Inset right: Deadman, under the Superman vs. Muhammad Ali that everybody laughed at That’s maybe the greatest piece that scripting and artwork of Neal when he first proposed it. Terry Austin ever did in his life. It’s just fabulous. Adams, was a grand epic during CBC: Right. There are guys on the roof with pigeon coops and the characters run in Strange Ad- Neal: When Julie mentioned it to me, he’d all these vegetables I only roughly indicated, but he TM & © DC Comics. ventures… and beyond. Here’s the expected me to laugh — and I guess I did — but does it all. creator’s artwork for the slipcase it tickled my fancy to take something that CBC: Yeah, Terry really cares. of the hardcover edition of The seemed so insane and actually turn Kris Adams Stone: That’s the truth. Deadman Collection [2001]. it into a story. So I did it and I think, He cared.

44 #3 • Fall 2013 • Comic Book Creator Neal: And so, when people ask me, I have to say it’s the best read. It’s the best comic book, it’s the best story, it’s

TM & © DC Comics. not esoteric, it’s not overly in- tellectual, it’s just a get down and get crazy comic book. Perhaps it’s the best comic book ever done. I thought that until Batman Odyssey. Batman Odyssey, you have to read it. It’s a book. I told people at the beginning, you know. Now that I’m coming back, I’m going to be doing a book. I’m not going to be doing a series of stories, or you’re going to read the first story and then wonder, “Am I going to like the sec- ond story as much as I did, or didn’t, like the first?” It’s the first chapter of a book and you’re not going to know what the book is about until you get to the last chapter. And then, when you get to the last chapter, you’re going to have to read it all over again because I set all he kills the Sensei. How do you solve that problem? How do Above: Opening spread of the these plot strings up from the beginning. Every single thing you get past that without deciding to kill somebody? Batman legendary Neal Adams written-&- that’s in there, ends up being resolved at the end of the book. would never decide to kill somebody. That’s what the story is drawn epic, Superman vs. Muham- When Robin is handling a gun with just a little too much glee about. That’s the odyssey that Batman is on. And for people mad Ali [1978], with backgrounds and he’s saying, “I’ve gotta tell ya, this really feels cool in my who didn’t read it all the way through and see that last book stupendously inked by Terry Austin. hand...” and go, “Oh, my God. He did it,” and then realize he didn’t do From the original artwork. CBC: Power of the gun. it and he pulled out of it — that he never would have done Neal: ...at the end of the story, Batman hands him the gun it — it was a plan between him and the Sensei. back and Robin doesn’t want it because he’s just seen — or Out on that battlefield where they were fighting each at least thought he saw — the result of using the gun. Ah-ha, other, they were talking quietly, when nobody could hear maybe guns are not so cute and fluffy. them, they were making the plan. And it wasn’t so much they CBC: The character changed. were making the plan, Batman was telling him what he had Neal: Batman had Robin look at the consequences of his done, and the Sensei knew what he was doing because this attraction for the weapon. [Points to Robin] You have to was the only place where you could go to the source of the hold the gun, so your body is Nile, that place where Ponce de Leon connected to that gun at was looking for the Fountain Inset left: The closing spread of some point. Then you of Youth, and find that Superman vs. Muhammad Ali, throw it to me and then thing. And that’s the words and picture by Neal Adams. I seem to kill somebody. real reason that Colors by Continuity. Now, for the first time, Batman was there. you see the result of He was going to give your action. Now you this old bastard his life don’t want it back, back and let him live it don’t want to touch it. over again. That’s a little thing that I set up right at the beginning of the story and resolved at the end. What was the plan? Was Batman ever out of control? Did Batman ever consider using a gun? Did he ever consider killing somebody? Never! Never for one second throughout the story. Batman is Sherlock Holmes. Bat- man is the best detective in the world and he had a problem to solve. So for everybody around him — for even us, the readers — he may actually be considering being a revenger. Doing it. Killing. So I set up a story where he really has no choice. If he’s going to live, and Robin and Talia and Ra’s al Ghul are going to live, Batman must kill. Sensei has a thousand assassins out there everywhere in the

TM & © DC Comics. world who will one day get revenge on Batman if

Comic Book Creator • Fall 2013 • #3 45 tunity to ink my stuff for many years and now they got the him because you’ve got these little, subtle events going on in opportunity. And they succeeded or failed according a hard line technique. to their own basic decisions and judgment, not mine. CBC: Oh, yeah, you can see there, yeah. That’s nice. Yes, I broke their knuckles, but I wanted them and Kris: So they’re like hidden gems, artistically. [chuckles] that’s what I got. In all cases, I got them, okay? And CBC: This is great stuff. Were you the only one who really it made me look and say, you know, it’s not such knew the entire story? How did you pitch it? a bad experience when you have really talented Neal: It wasn’t really pitched. people out there who can actually add something Kris: [To Neal] Can we tell the truth about it? to what you do. So I consider it an addition, not a Neal: We started with . subtraction in any way. All these guys did the best Kris: I wanted Neal to be a true freelancer so we started kind of job you could possibly expect. this without knowing whether they were going to buy it. [to CBC: Was that the original plan, to have multiple Neal] And you were, what? Two books in, I think, by the time inkers? we showed it? Kris: Yes. CBC: You had two books before you had a contract? Neal: At some point, I said I would do the first couple of Kris: Before we even discussed it with DC. We knew it Above: Hey, Ye Ed knew Josh issues and then I would start handing pieces off to people. was a gamble, but we also knew we could probably sell the Adams, Neal & Marilyn’s son, I wanted them to handle these areas they could do well. originals even if DC didn’t buy the story. So it wasn’t a huge when he was a mere rapscallion! It turns out that Sienkiewicz was so good that I gave him gamble. Now Josh is all grown-up and much more than I would have normally given him, based on Neal: I don’t really gamble. has become an amazing talent in my original interpretation. I think he’s got like three or four Kris: And then [DC publisher] Paul [Levitz] got upset and comics all by his lonesome! The issues that he’s done. He’s done a fantastic job. said, “Well, we can’t do this. This goes against the rules.” artist also contributed inks — and Kris: Yes, if you were to say which one did the majority of CBC: The “Batman rules” or …? a pin-up — to Batman Odyssey. inking, I would say he did. Kris: Any rule. Like they don’t want a freelancer coming Neal: And it was hard on him and it was hard on me in because then you are truly a freelancer and that starts because when I would get let down, I would get angry at him fighting, “Work Made For Hire.” So Paul said to do this, and I would tell him. And so he would come back up because “We really have to get a contract now before you end this. his style allows a certain kind of sloppiness. But in this, he Otherwise, we can’t buy it.” And then at that point — Below: Look what we found at had to have the sloppiness, which is technique, and he still Neal: Then we had Bob Schreck. Heritage Auctions’ website (www. had to be slightly religious in that you needed to see the Kris: Because Schreck was doing the off-the-main-course ha.com)! Unfinished Batman story being told, so he couldn’t just slough over something. books. He was doing those Elsewhere books. Odyssey page, intended for #10, In this case, we kept on reining him back, but we never, ever Neal: And Schreck has a reputation that if he believes in featuring Deadman and Robin, said, “Don’t do what you do.” We want “what you do.” you, then he just lets you go. partially inked by Bill Sienkiewicz Kris: “Where’s the grit, Bill?” We kept yelling, “Where’s the CBC: Oh, a good editor. [chuckles] (who autographed the original art) grit?” [laughs] Neal: Yes, what you call a good editor. I do have some over Neal’s blue pencils. Neal: That’s right. “Where’s the grit? Yes, what I did has to experience and reputation. I mean I could have gone senile be there, but we want your or something, but apparently I didn’t. grit to be in there.” So we’re Kris: But Schreck also deals with the high-end creatives giving him what seems like and gets good work out of them. opposing directions, but Neal: Right. we’re not. Yes, even though Kris: It obviously works. Look where he is now, Legendary! we’re criticizing him by CBC: Shades of . saying he has to put all this Neal: Yeah, right. Exactly. So it wasn’t so much I had a stuff in there, at the same specific outline with everything blocked out. I had enough to time, we want the grit that begin the story and I probably had more than most writers he puts in there, that stuff in comics have because I don’t have the same standard people love. So he has to that comic book writers have. I know what the standard is do both at the same time. because I’ve been in editorial sessions. At Marvel, they’re It was terrible. I’m sure starting to get that, but they’re constraining themselves in he went though all kinds many ways by getting too tied down and not leaving some of hell to do it, but you flexibility. I like the idea of being able to know everything know what? That’s art. myself, give an overall synopsis to the editor, and then That’s just the way it loosening myself up as I go through the story, and then works. tightening it all together. That way, I can have everything Kris: Then we had locked up in my head. I can give enough to the editor for the do like five editor to be happy with the story and he likes it, and then I pages. can go back and finesse it. I like that. And when you’re doing Neal: Right. 13 issues, obviously — for example, a really good example is Kris: Because it was intended to be 12 issues. And I realized as I got to the that’s all Paul had end of the story, I could never jam it all in, in the last couple time to do. of issues. So I asked for a 13th issue, which they were able Neal: Yeah, that’s to give me. I don’t think it would so easily work without the what we had avail- 13th book and I was only on the tenth at that time and I’m able to do. going, “I can’t put this together. I’ve already jammed too Kris: I think he much.” I should make this 15 books, but at least I can ask for wanted to be part one more book because as you go through this, what you’ll of it. discover is there’s a lot of info on each page. Neal: Where Kris: There’s no easy page. does he start? Neal: Yeah, there’s no easy page. These are hard-working

He starts here. pages. TM & © DC Comics. [points to Batman CBC: There’s no easy issue, right. Odyssey #7] But Neal: No. this is a perfect Kris: There’s no coasting. [laughs] sequence for Neal: And there’s also these subplots that I don’t tell you.

50 #3 • Fall 2013 • Comic Book Creator I don’t like to ring a bell and go, And then you’ll hear, as I tell the sto- Above: Now seriously, Neal. “There’s a subplot going on here.” ry, what happened.” So to give you Did you not think us tried-&-true Kris: Well, that’s in the next edition his reflections of what/where you Adams fans wouldn’t recognize we put out. We’re going to have to are up to that point, it’s the perfect your own frontispiece put out “Here. Pay attention here. medium for doing that. It’s a comic (inset center) from that Warren Get on the Internet. Google now.” book. It gives you one chapter at a mag’s 44th [Aug. ’75] issue which [laughs] time. I mean you don’t do that in a you pastiched not once but twice Neal: “Pay attention,” with little book because people turn the page. in Batman Odyssey #11 [May ’12]? asterisks. “Google this.” This is a month apart or two months The cover is deliciously inked by CBC: You didn’t give a synopsis apart so he starts out not by giving . Colors: Continuity. Below: Kevin Nowlan is lensed on the opening page of each issue. you a synopsis, but his reflections. at the Birmingham International That’s a way of playing catch-up And then you learn more about the Comics Show, in Feb. 2007. CBC with the reader, because it’s such a character, and what he thinks about pal Nowlan contributes the pencils, dense story. You did it through the it. You’re more likely to read it. You inks and colors to next issue’s narrative of talking to don’t have to read it. You can just go cover celebrating Russ Heath! the biographer. into the story, but if and when you read it the second time, Batman TM & © DC Comics. Vampirella TM & ©2013 . Batman TM & © DC Comics. Vampirella Neal: Well, I don’t think I could easily give a synopsis wouldn’t you like to know that layer of his reflections? because I noticed that that’s what Marvel does and I don’t CBC: He’s a surrogate for the reader, to some degree, like it. I never read that first page. I just throw it away. Does “Wow, a lot’s happened. And that’s this, this, this, and anyone read that page? And I realized, well, it’s one thing to this which is a reflection of what’s happened and give a synopsis and another thing to give a kind of re-tell- what might be coming.” ing through the characters’ point of view. Bruce is sitting Neal: That’s true. It sets you up for the next story, and — reflecting on what’s happening, and gives you a little so you’re getting a little synopsis slid in there synopsis. He also does it from his own point of view, from his without it sounding like a synopsis, but more heart. like reflection. But what he doesn’t do is that he So he says, “You know, I was feeling bad about this, but never assumes that you’re an idiot and he has to now I didn’t feel so bad, but then I could do this and I could explain sh*t. So he never tells you about his father’s do that and leaving Robin behind, it really bothered me and relationship with Ra’s al Ghul and why it broke apart I was like ‘Maybe I shouldn’t have done it,’ but I knew it was and what it has to do with that hydrogen car in the a bad idea to bring him along for this reason or that reason. middle of the warehouse. He assumes that Clark, who

Comic Book Creator • Fall 2013 • #3 51 Photo ©2013 Dave Mathis.

This page: Far left top, Neal’s pencils from Batman TM & © DC Comics. Odyssey #7 [Dec. ’11]; near left, Michael Golden’s inks on same; and, below left, Conti- nuity’s brilliant hues on same. Above is a photo of Michael at Chicago Comic Con, 2009, snapped by — and courtesy of — Dave Mathis.

he’s talking to, is going to go back and look this stuff up and research and figure out what that means and create the author’s reflection on his reflection because that’s what you would do, okay? That’s what happens with conversa- tion. I assume, in all of this, you’re going to look up Hollow Earth Theory, I assume you’re going to look up a little bit more about hydrogen power — CBC: I’ve got sidebars galore. [laughs] Neal: — because I slapped you in the face with it. So you’re going to have to do it, just like Clark would have to do. And then Clark will come back in the next meeting and then say, “You know what? You were talking about the last time, when you were talking about this and not having Robin come. I didn’t realize at the time that the reason you didn’t want Robin to come is that there were some things that were going to happen that would reflect on him personally, it would hurt him and so it’s better that you just do it yourself and protect him,” which he does all the way through. He protects him all the way through the story. But in the end, he teaches him a lesson and he knows that lesson’s going to come. He knows he’s going to have Robin carry that gun and hand him the gun because right at the beginning of the story, Robin showed too much affection for that gun. And you, the reader, didn’t hear what he said Batman said, but inside his head, he said, “This is a bad thing. This is going to have to be cured. So while I’m doing all this, I will never forget this. And at the end, I’m go- ing to have him carry that gun, and I’m going to have him hand me that gun, and I’m going to kill somebody in front of him (not really) and I want him to know how it felt for me when my parents were killed.” Not all of it because he’s already had his own tragic beginning. “But I want him to understand about guns.” Remember the story I tell right at the beginning? Where Batman is talking to Robin and Robin is up with Man-Bat? He says, “Okay, so you’re one guy and you’re in a room with 20 guys and everybody in the room has a gun, except for you. Now, who’s going to get killed first?” And Robin says, “I’m going to get killed first. I don’t have a gun.” Batman says, “No, you’re not going to get killed first. You’re going to get killed last because you have no gun, because everybody in that room is afraid of everybody else who has a gun. You’re in the least danger in that room.” Then he says, “Who’s going to survive?” Robin says, “Well, I don’t think I’m going to survive because I have no gun.” Batman says, “No, no, you’re going to survive because you don’t have a gun so you have one simple thing to think about: surviving. Everybody else in that room has two things to think about: surviving and killing somebody else, so their mind is split on killing other people because they have a gun, and then surviving. Your mind has only one thought. Survive. And, because of that, you are much more likely to survive.” Very good logic. It takes a long time for that kind of logic to drift in because that’s one of those discussions you have in a coffee shop. You know, you sit and talk about this sh*t. And he does it casually while Robin is out there, having a good time. But Robin will think about it before he goes to bed or the next TM & © DC Comics. night because he’s learning from this man who is his mentor. CBC: And importantly, he’s his , and he’s a ward, and Bruce Wayne has a respon- sibility. I mean you seem to bring these characters back to their essence. You really thought of them as human beings. You said, “Well, he’s a guardian, he needs to teach lessons to his

52 #3 • Fall 2013 • Comic Book Creator TM & © DC Comics. This page: Neal Adams and Continuity offered Comic Book Creator three options as cover for this very issue of CBC. At immediate left was the original cover Neal had intended for the debut issue of Batman Odyssey (a detail of these pencils is featured in that issue), but DC higher-ups objected to having the character carry a handgun, on the cover at least. Ye Ed chose the bottom left piece, which was the planned cover for the hardback collection (but the artist deemed it “too busy”). Bottom right looks to have been intended as a cover for #3. Much thanks to all, especially Kris Stone for the help.

can happen. As you’re going toward it, you gain knowledge so that’s what you do, you go toward it until you realize what could be the possible result. And then you either act or don’t act. So in those kinds of situations, there’s good advice and bad advice. Now, [chuckles] anybody who has any sense — and there’s a lot of writers who write for comic books, that don’t understand combat at all. Have no idea of what you do and how you take care of events. They don’t understand how you deal with it. They don’t understand all kinds of stuff, but facing guns — very, very bad situation — then you have a gun, worse situation. Pull a gun, let’s say you’re facing two guys on the street and some guy pulls a gun, and so you pull a gun. Guess what? Somebody’s going to get shot. the other guy has a gun? You’re dead because two guys can shoot faster than one, so you’re already in a bad situation. I had three guys attack me one night. I was taking my daughter Zeea and my son Josh home. My daughter was an adult, my son Josh was like six years old, and we got off on Sixth Avenue, we’re going toward the apartment in the middle of the block. Three guys, I saw them on the corner as I passed them and my spider sense didn’t go on. We’re in a cab, we passed them, went to the opposite corner and they were on the first corner. And because I grew up in Brooklyn and Coney Island, I have pretty good spider-sense and I’m supposed to know sh*t. For whatever reason, I missed it. Why would three guys be hanging out on that corner, just standing and talking? So I got out of the car with my daugh- ter and my son, and we’re walking down the street, and those guys come down the other side of the street. I think, “Damn, what’s going on?” So they peeled toward the gutter, to off the sidewalk ahead of us. So I had my daughter grab my son and I told her, “Run to the front door as fast as you can and I’ll stay here.” And so with a little quick glance, my daughter is smart enough to know. She grabs Josh and runs down the street to the front door, which is further down the block. Now these guys have to make a decision. The smart one, the , started to veer toward my children because he knew that was the weakness. But they were running too fast — my kids run good — so they were now running too fast and he had left behind the two weaker guys, so he had to veer back some. He came back at me. So I had three guys facing me. I backed up against the wall, put my portfolio down, and I got ready to fight. And now they’re threatening me. You know, “Give me your money, we’re going to beat you up.” And I could see that they were not really tough, they were just thieves. And I’m checking their clothes and one of them had a suit on. They’re threatening. I didn’t know their back-story at this point. I’m holding and said, “Okay, just calm down. If you want to get into a fight, we can fight, but just calm down. Stay calm. Everybody stay calm.” “Well, we want your money. We want you to just shut up,” and then they’re threatening me. “You know, we got a gun. We got a gun,” and, “See, show him the gun.” And one guy pulls a gun out and it’s one of these .22s, a little pea-shooter that women have? CBC: Mm-mm. Neal: [Chuckles] And so he walks in front of me with the gun and in my head, I’m thinking, “You’re going to die. I’m going to kill you… [chuckles] because you’re holding the TM & © DC Comics. gun, these guys aren’t.” And one guy’s dancing around, I said, “Okay, calm down. I can take out the money that’s in my pocket and give it to you and you’re gone. We’re okay.” So the gun guy said,” Okay, give us your money.” They were

54 #3 • Fall 2013 • Comic Book Creator TM & © DC Comics. , “Just give me a little thing where he’s gonna change his outfit, that’s all.” And then I took it and turned him into a modern-day Robin Hood. Now you’re seeing him on television. One thing he doesn’t do on television [in the current TV series Arrow] is smile with that charming grin, and that’s ba- Art ©2013 Alex Ross. Characters TM & Marvel Characters, Inc. Comics. sic to his nature. When that book [BB #85, Aug.–Sept. 1969] came out, fans responded, “That’s all I get? Come on! Do something with this guy! I love him!” Well, that’s what I do. I did [The X-Men #58, July ’69] and the same re- sponse. “Wow, that’s Havok? Okay, do something with him.” And guess what? They did. I built in the density. Same thing here. Same thing for everything in — the un- derworld, the scientist, the different characters. If you read through those characters that are in the underworld, I’ve got Above: Paul Neary’s inks grace humanity was another thing that killed it. So what was left grays in there — alien grays! There’s jazz musicians who are the pencils of Neal Adams (seen was Gil and ’ CGI characters. There was magicians at the same time! upper right) in Batman Odyssey no humanity to the character. So while the Batman guys who CBC: [Laughs] That magician character is talking in street #7 [Dec. ’11], the reboot issue. made the Batman movies related directly to what Denny and vernacular. You’re very strange! Nope, we didn’t forget Paul, but I were doing and with all that meat-&-potatoes they made Neal: No, it was jazz. He wasn’t talking street talk, he apologies to Scott Williams for successful movies, the guys who ignored us made a failure. was talking jazz talk. So he is a jazz musician, who is also a not having precise examples at I’m not trying to tell people what to do. I’m just trying to give magician. Maybe they get a little bit of the Lazarus Pit, some press time. We were also hoping them grist for their mill… to play with. That’s all I’m doing. of whom are involved in the jazz community because they do to include comments by the myriad That’s all I’ve ever done. Anything I’ve ever done I’ve tried drugs, they’re hip, they’re cool… so he’s not alone! He’s not delineators who contributed to the to say, “This is the best I’ve got. If you guys want to go and the only jazz musician or jazz hippie who is a magician and graphic novel, but we’ll try for this play with it, go ahead. Here. Play with it. Enjoy.” Or I’ll do it or part of that culture. There’s a bunch of guys down there. But issue’s letter column in CBC #5. somebody else will do it and we’ll all have a good time. That’s he is like one of the guys. So when Batman starts talking to Please note that throughout this what this is also about. This is also about presenting all the him, he totally gets it. feature, we’ve used issue numbers ideas that got left in the dirt. You should have paid attention CBC: You reached out to TwoMorrows and wanted a place reflecting the chronological place- to them, now you can deal with it. League of Assassins and to talk about Batman Odyssey, and I volunteered the pages ment of these chapters, but lest it of Comic Book Creator. What was the reason? seem too confusing, we’ve usually Robin? Kind of an interesting topic. Underworld Batman who is a Neanderthal but is intelligent? That’s interesting. Neal: I reached out because I made a mistake. I didn’t include cover dates, as well. Colors answer my critics on the ’net. When I stopped doing comics, are by either Ginger Karalexis, Cory I don’t create things that are light. I create dense things we didn’t have all these people discussing things on the Adams or Moose Baumann, or a that have pasts and futures. And then I may just show you a Internet. So I come back doing comics, and the first thing combination thereof. piece of it. That’s sort of what happened with . I was given this Brave and the Bold and I said to [writer] that happens is I get the same kind of guys who would send

64 #3 • Fall 2013 • Comic Book Creator letters to Julie Schwartz back in the day who wrote, “Neal shouldn’t be doing The Spectre. Murphy Ander- son did it perfectly and that’s the end

TM & © DC Comics. of it.” Julie had a letters page. And then a couple of issues later, people are writing in saying, “No, no, he should do it.” But now there’s a lot of people out there that started writing very nasty things, and of course they were misinterpreting everything that was going on and some of them were idiotic, some of them were just saying, “Why? It doesn’t sound like every other comic I read this month. I don’t know what the hell he’s doing.” “I don’t know what he’s doing” was sort of the big response, “I don’t know what he’s doing.” [Jon chuckles] And I tried to explain in interviews that I’m doing a book. And the response is, “Ah, I want to be satisfied with this issue. I don’t know what’s going on, I don’t know what he’s doing. I don’t get it. He’s crazy.” CBC: It says it’s one of 13 issues on the cover. [chuckles] Neal: Yeah! It didn’t matter to those people. Now, my instinct is to write a letter back, but when I talk to everybody, either people here or at DC Comics, their advice was, “Don’t bother with those idiots.” But that was totally the wrong advice. That was the dumbest advice I’ve ever gotten and I listened to people because I am… what, mellow? First thing I should have done is jump on the Internet and say, “What the hell are you talking about? Guess what?” And I would continue. But I didn’t. I didn’t. I listened to what everyone else said and I just let it become this crashing insanity be- five letters, or whatever the hell they got, and they told me, Above: The artist laments some cause, what? I wasn’t living up to their expectations. Truth is, “I don’t think we should be doing this, Neal. People are not fan reaction to the re-coloring in I was living beyond their expectations… as usual. liking it.” the Batman Illustrated by Neal Ad- ams three-volume set [2003–’05], It’s sort of like when we recolored the Batman and Dead- Not liking it? People are loving it. Not you, not the geek which collect the entirety of his man stories for the bound collections [Batman Illustrated by at DC Comics and the geek who writes those letters. These Dark Knight work… until Batman Neal Adams Vol. 1–3, 2003–06, and The Deadman Collection, guys should have become extinct with the dinosaurs. Five people or 50 wants to read crap like that; 20,000 people live Odyssey, that is. These volumes 2001]. You’d get these five people that would write to DC and are now available in paperback. say, “How dare you recolor this stuff? It’s classic.” “Oh, you here today. Nobody wants to see it. Good artists are actually can’t do that!” To which my response would normally have coloring pages so they look like sh*t pages on this nostalgic been, “Are you out of your mind? Are you going to listen to stuff instead of brightening them up and making them good. the tiny vocal minority tell us what we should be doing and And you’re defending that? Fine. Okay, you know what? reading just because you have this nostalgic insanity for the We won’t colorize movies, just to make you happy, and we crappy old coloring, printed on toilet paper that insects eat?” won’t do this and we won’t do that, we won’t live in the 21st CBC: You were there! [chuckles] century. We’ll just let you control the world — No! Okay? Neal: “And you’re telling me that people will choose the The hell with this. bad coloring and bad paper if they have a choice? You’re just Now when Odyssey came out, people advised, “Don’t going to choose your own damn nostalgic bullsh*t?” bother with these people. They’re just annoyances.” No, CBC: Sentimentality. they affected sales. They affected other people. Neal: Five people’s sentimentality? And I’m having to say, There’s some 13-year old kid on the Internet who did a “Oh, well, fine. We should do this for you five trapped in video, sits in front of a camera, he says, “I don’t understand time? Excuse me, we’re not doing it for you. We’re doing it what’s going on. I just read #3 of Batman Odyssey and it’s for the readers, the 10,000 people who are going to buy this great. Maybe it’s not the greatest comic book ever book and not the five guys who are going to write in to com- done, but it’s really great.” And I’m hearing all plain. Guess what? If you like those [original] comic books, this stuff from people … “I don’t get it. It go out and buy them. You can go on the Internet or eBay, or you can go to your local comic book store, and you can buy Right: Vignette from artist Neal Adams and inker that primitive junk again because it, what, looks like sh*t.” Dick Giordano’s Batman #238 [Jan. ’72] wraparound CBC: And bind it together for your own collection? cover, providing evidence that Neal made the Neal: And bind it together and make your own ancient super-hero’s cape a virtual scene-stealing co-star in

TM & © DC Comics. tome. Why am I listening to this crap? Even at DC, they got the series during the artist’s tenure.

Comic Book Creator • Fall 2013 • #3 65 an editor and all that respect goes away. You’ve gotta have a little respect as you go along. The good thing about this project [indicates Batman Odyssey] is the editor [Mike Marts] we started with had total respect. The other editors

TM & © DC Comics. they assigned to, after they let him go, were… well, it was a job… and it didn’t matter if they were respectful or not, I was moving. So if they hadhad aa problem—problem— CBC: YYouou were in motion? Neal: I was in motion, so I just continued the project until it was done. And DC became focused on planning for “52.” CBC: Ahhh. Neal: Which, by the way, is partially the reason that they didn’t support this project. There was no support from DC Comics at all, along the way, for this project. I should have spoken out about it then. But I didn’t. And it’s impossible to play catch-up. You know, you can’t go out after the fact and say, “Had I done it, we would have sold another 50,000 copies a month.” But I think this will become a perennial, the more we explain it, the more people get to see it, the more they tell other people, I think this will be a perennial and it will make those 50,000 or 100,000 copies. It’ll just take a longer time. CBC: Right. Neal: People who like it should talk about it to their friends. I’d like it to get the readership that it deserves because it deserves to have good, intelligent readers because that’s who I’m talking to. I’m not talking to the dumb heads. This is a book for intelligent people — and also, it’s got lots of action and adventure. So I want people to know the density of it, I want them to know all these positive aspects like it’s the most beautiful Talia that you’d ever want to see, the Batmobile is incredible. Because it’s 13 books, it’s almost impossible to talk about all the stuff in it. CBC: And we shouldn’’t,t, reallyre eallyy.. Neal: Well, we shouldn’t, but I’ll bet we’re gonna! CBC: I mean it’’ss a discoverydiscove ery y,, right? Neal: Yeah, but from the point of view of letting people know what they will have missed… and should see. For example, to watch the interaction of Deadman. I brought Deadman into this and this is the Deadman that everybody’s been trying and perhaps failing to do. He’s this angry, crazed character and he’s in, as a side-issue, but every time he shows up, he makes this great contribution to the flow of the story. And I also introduce,IF YOU or ENJOYEDreintroduce, THIS . PREVIEW, [searches the graphic novelCLICK for theTHE Aquaman LINK TO sequence ORDER] THIS Did I miss it? Oh, here’ISSUEs the IN PRINT thing. OR This, DIGITAL by the FORMAT! way, reveals aspects and a certain history of the Joker. And about

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you really do that? Yes, I think A TwoMorrowswe Publication can. Wouldn’No. 3, Fall 2013 t people like to see that image? Yes, I think they would. Wouldn’t they like to see that image? Yes, I think they would. [points to Richard Nixon image] Do theythey wantwant toto seesee thatthat image?image? No,No, I Iguess guess Above: Joker exhibit from Batman not. tougher and stronger than a regular guy, even Batman. You Odyssey #5 [Jan. ’11]. Below: CBC: [LLaughs] TrickyTricky Dick.Dick A bit gruesome Joker sequence. get the feeling that if they got into a tussle, Batman wouldn’t Neal’’ss awesome take on the charr-- Neal: Yep. A bit gruesome. AnywayAnyway, where is that? [contin- make out quite so easily. He’d have to depend on ju-jitsu acter is in this issue of Batman, ues searching through book k] Where’s the Aquaman? Where and all his other fighting skills. So I intentionally did an is my Aquaman?Aquaman? DidDid II missmiss him?him? Aquaman that I thought would make ke that visual impres CBC: How come this character’ racter’ ’ss last name changes? It’s sion where you think, “Oh, man. This his guy looks toughtough. Reuben—? That is a tough-looking guy.” And I would think visually

0 1

Neal: Reuben Irons? 1 82658 97073 4 if they could find somebody, anything hing like that, it would make a great TV show because you’d ou’d get this power CBC: And then it’’ss “Reuben“Reube COMICBlades.” BOOK CREATOR #3 Neal: You know what?NEAL That’ ADAMSs a vigorouslymistake. responds It’s an to criticseditorial of his BATMAN: coming out of the ocean and this creature that’s just mistake. It’s the one knuckleheadODYSSEY mini-series mistake in an in-depth in there interview! and Plus: it’s SEAN my little bit different than us, you know, a little bit bigger. HOWE on his hit book MARVEL COMICS: THE UNTOLD fault. STORY; MARK WAID interview, part one; Harbinger writer Every once in a while you see somebody who’s b CBC: Reuben BladesJOSHUA is an n actorDYSARTactorr. ; Part Two of our LES DANIELS remembrance;and powerful like that and you respond, “God, it’s like Neal: eah, I knowY . That’a news ADAMS probablycover, andwhy more! his name changed. they come from another race of people,” and that’s It changed to “Irons,” right? Yeah,(84-page it wasFULL-COLOR a mistakemagazine) and $8.95 it sort of the impression you want too get with Aquaman. (Digital Edition) $3.95 didn’t get changed. You knowhttp://twomorrows.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1113, no matter how many times you I threw that in because I feel there’s not a distinction mark a mistake, one slips through. [rifles through pages s] It’s made between the characters at DC. Everybody’s one panel, okay? But he looks tougher than any Aquaman got shiny teeth like they just brushed their teeth you’ve ever seen. Look at the muscles in his face and the with pearls and you don’t see a difference between size of him. He’s a unique-looking character. He’s a guy who the characters. I like an Aquaman who suddenly

TM & © DC Comics. DC © & TM lives underwater r,, with all theth pressures involved, should be looks bigger and more massive and able to resist

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