Zheng Shengtian A Missing Story in Havana: A Conversation with Juan Moreira July 8, 2016 Juan Moreira Studio, Havana, Cuba

This interview is an extension of my research into exchanges between Latin Left to right: Zheng Shengtian, Marisol Villela, Juan Moreira. America and China during the 1950s and 60s—in particular with Chilean Photo: Don Li-Leger. artist José Venturelli and his influence in mainland China. In the 1960s, Cuban artist Juan Moreira assisted Venturelli in the painting of two large murals in Havana.1

Zheng Shengtian: May I call you Juan? We are of the same generation.

44 Vol. 16 No. 1 Juan Moreira: Yes, of course.

Zheng Shengtian: Juan, when I was a young artist in the early 1960s, I was in China, in Beijing, and we learned about the painting Camilo Cienfuegos (1961).

Juan Moreira: It is José Venturelli’s mural.

Zheng Shengtian: Venturelli lived in Beijing at that time, and he came to Havana and made two murals—Camilo Cienfuegos, in the Medical Retreat (now the Ministry of Health), and another, Sovereignty and Peace, in the Hall of Solidarity at Habana Libre, the former Havana Hilton hotel that was once the headquarters of Fidel Castro. In 1962 Venturelli went back to Beijing and showed his drawings of the mural Camilo Cienfuegos as well as photographs of it. So many artists in China, in Beijing, were very impressed by this mural. In more than half a century, however, no one in China actually has seen the painting, no one has seen the original. But we saw it today, with Chinese artists Zhang Peili and Geng Jianyi who are visiting Havana with me.

Juan Moreira: Did you go to see both of the murals? Because there are two.

Zheng Shengtian: Yes, we saw two.

Juan Moreira: Venturelli worked for about eight months on each of these murals; he devoted a lot of time. I was his assistant.

Zheng Shengtian: That is why we have come to visit you, because we know you were the assistant to Venturelli at that time.

Juan Moreira: A Cuban painter, who has now passed away, Orlando Suárez, worked as an assistant with David Alfaro Siqueiros in Mexico. And Orlando Suárez—I do not know how it happened—but he was the one who invited Venturelli, who brought him to Havana. I worked with him on both murals.

Zheng Shengtian: Were Suárez and Venturelli friends?

Juan Moreira: Probably, but I do not know exactly how the connection was made. But yes, Orlando Suárez called me to work with Venturelli, and he was the one who brought him.

Zheng Shengtian: Maybe because Venturelli was also an assistant to Siqueiros, a long time ago, in Chile.

Juan Moreira: Orlando Suárez was also Siqueiros’s assistant, but in Mexico. I do not know if he and Venturelli knew each other before. If I once knew it, I have now forgotten.

Vol. 16 No. 1 45 José Venturelli, Camilo Cienfuegos, 1961, mural in the conference room of Ministry of Health, Havana. Photo: Don Li-Leger.

José Venturelli, Sovereignty and Peace, 1962, mural in the Hall of Solidarity, Habana Libre hotel, Havana. Photo: Don Li-Leger.

46 Vol. 16 No. 1 Vol. 16 No. 1 47 Zheng Shengtian: So at that time you were probably twenty-four years old.

Juan Moreira: More or less. I was born in 1938, but I do not remember exactly when the mural was done. But there is a very interesting anecdote. The first mural, Camilo Cienfuegos, was the one in the Ministry of Health Building across the street from the Pabellón Cuba. So the story that I am going to tell is connected with this mural. Salvador Allende, do you know who I am talking about? He was Venturelli’s friend and later became the president of Chile. While doing this mural, Salvador Allende visited Venturelli, and that was when I met Allende, and one day he told me “Moreira, I am going to take with me this work from Venturelli”—it was a sketch. Then Venturelli said “No, that is a sketch, I am going to give you an original one, not that one.”

But what I was going to say is that when Allende left, Venturelli told me: “Look, there are going to be elections in Chile, and he is going to be a candidate for president of Chile. But this time, he will not be elected as president, he is only going to be a candidate, not president. But next time, he will be president.” And it was this way, exactly this way. I was very young, Allende was candidate for president of Chile, and it is true, he did not win, but years passed by and he was once more a candidate, and that time, in 1970, he was elected president of Chile. It was as Venturelli said, I do not know why, it was just something that he knew would happen.

With Venturelli, I learned a lot. I was young, and, well, I always painted, but he was a good teacher, and he helped me very much during the process of painting the murals. What else can I tell you? He was an excellent painter, and a very good person, but you should ask me something else more specific that you would like to know.

Zheng Shengtian: I visited Venturelli’s daughter, Paz, in Chile three years ago, and she told me that she was in Havana, too. She also told me about the time when her father was working on the murals, that Che Guevara visited the site, do you remember that?

Juan Moreira: Paz?

Zheng Shengtian: Do you remember her?

Juan Moreira: I know her. When the mural was being painted, Che went to see the mural. Che was someone who was highly respected by us, and in the mural Camilo Cienfuegos there is even a part in which Venturelli is depicted as a wounded character, and Che is helping him. Did you see that image in the mural?

Zheng Shengtian: Oh, that is Venturelli. So why is he lying down?

Juan Moreira: Well, he wanted to depict himself wounded. I do not know why—perhaps to imagine he was a guerrilla. And Che is there too.

48 Vol. 16 No. 1 José Venturelli, Camilo Zheng Shengtian: On one side of Venturelli is Tania the Guerrila, who Cienfuegos (detail), 1961, mural in the conference room fought with Che in Bolivia, and next to her is Che Guevara, is that correct? of Ministry of Health, Havana. Photo: Don Li-Leger. Juan Moreira: Tania, I do not know. Of course one is Che, and one is Venturelli. The woman has the outfit of a guerrilla, but I do not know who she is.

Zheng Shengtian: Could you tell us more about this mural? Is that General Castro to the left of Camilo?

Juan Moreira: Yes, I think that is Fidel between some plants.

Zheng Shengtian: And do you recognize the person at the end?

Juan Moreira: I do not remember, so many years have passed.

Marisol Villela: When was the last time you saw this mural?

Juan Moreira: Years ago. I worked first as an assistant on that mural, and later I worked on the other mural as well, the one at the Habana Libre.

Marisol Villela: I mean when was the last time you revisited the mural?

Juan Moreira: I can’t tell you exactly.

Zheng Shengtian: Is this Camilo Cienfuegos in the centre?

Vol. 16 No. 1 49 Juan Moreira: Yes, that is Camilo. I went to see it several times after we José Venturelli, Camilo Cienfuegos (detail), 1961, finished it, but many years have passed since the last time. And when the mural in the conference room of Ministry of Health, Havana. mural was being made, friends of mine, as well as painters, visited us during Photo: Don Li-Leger. the process, and Venturelli allowed them to watch.

Zheng Shengtian: How long did you work with Venturelli in total?

Juan Moreira: With the first mural I worked almost all the time, and in the other as well, the one at the Habana Libre; I was his assistant. I was very young. I was twenty-something. Venturelli was already an adult. I looked at him as the great teacher, with a lot of respect. I was the assistant, and nothing more, only the assistant. We were not friends really because we were not the same age; we did not go out to drink or eat together. He was more a teacher to me.

Zheng Shengtian: How many assistants were working with him at that time?

Juan Moreira: From what I remember, I was the only painter. Later, when there was need of another assistant for the Habana Libre’s mural, I brought one of my friends, who has now passed away, José Foble. I brought him to help, so at one point there were two of us.

Zheng Shengtian: What exactly did you do on the murals? Were you painting or, . . .?

Juan Moreira: I drew, because Venturelli designed the sketches and I helped to transfer the drawings onto the wall following his sketch. And sometimes I helped to do the underpainting. I helped to copy the sketch, the original drawing that Venturelli did, onto the wall, but he also drew.

50 Vol. 16 No. 1 José Venturelli, Camilo Zheng Shengtian: How did you transfer the sketches onto the wall? Did you Cienfuegos (detail), 1961, mural in the conference room use charcoal, or what method did you use? of Ministry of Health, Havana. Photo: Don Li-Leger. Juan Moreira: It was done using a grid system. Sometimes, for example, I blocked out an area for plants, trees, and rocks, all that, then Venturelli came and he gave the final touch to everything.

Zheng Shengtian: What kind of paint did he use?

Juan Moreira: I am almost sure that it was acrylic. But I do not remember exactly, many years have passed, so I do not know if it was oil painting or not.

Zheng Shengtian: Were the materials from abroad or from Cuba?

Juan Moreira: I do not remember that as well. I know that Venturelli took care of all that. Maybe it was Orlando Suárez who brought the materials, but I do not know this detail, because I was so young at the time.

Zheng Shengtian: Suárez is a Cuban? Not Mexican?

Juan Moreira: Cuban.

Zheng Shengtian: Could you tell us a little about yourself? How did you become an artist?

Juan Moreira: When I was a child, I used to hide and not go to school because a billboard painting workshop opened on the same block as my house. I did not go to school and instead I went there to see how they painted the billboards. It was a company where they painted billboards for the highways, and I used to go there and watch how they did it. Then they

Vol. 16 No. 1 51 told me, “Go and get me some cigarettes, go and get me that.” One day I told my father, “I do not want to go to school anymore, I want to work there.” My father spoke with the owner, and when I was ten or eleven years old I went to work there. That was how I started.

But ever since I was a child, I used to lay down on the floor and draw, I was born with that. Later on I studied at the School of Painting in Havana, but because I had already gained a lot of experience with the billboards, I studied the content of four years of courses, and I graduated within two years.

Zheng Shengtian: When you worked on the murals, were you still in the art school (Escuela de Artes Plástica de San Alejandro), or had you graduated already?

Juan Moreira: Now I have doubts about that. I do not know if it was before or after my graduation, but I was with Venturelli all the time, mornings and afternoons.

Zheng Shengtian: Was it a volunteer job or paid job?

Juan Moreira: They paid me, but I do not remember how much. It was not Venturelli, but Orlando Suárez who paid me as an assistant. I was not interested in the money; what I was interested in was working with a great painter and learning from him. And I learned a lot from Venturelli when I saw him painting and doing the thousands of sketches. It was like school for me. He was patient with me, and if I had questions he would demonstrate how things were done.

Zheng Shengtian: Was he sick? Because Paz told me he had asthma. Did it influence his work?

Juan Moreira: Yes, during that time, he was already sick with tuberculosis. I remember that we walked from the Medical Retreat to the Habana Libre, where he was staying, and at every corner he was short of breath. I was walking with him and he had to stop to catch his breath. He was already sick.

Marisol Villela: But this did not affect him while he was painting?

Juan Moreira: No, only when he walked or climbed a steep street was he short of breath. But he worked perfectly fine, he worked so much, eight hours or more at a time.

Zheng Shengtian: Even that short distance, a very short distance.

Juan Moreira: Yes, there were two blocks from the mural at the Medical Retreat to the Habana Libre. Later they gave him an apartment here, a house.

Zheng Shengtian: When you were working on this mural, of course you knew Camilo Cienfuegos, the person, the life of Camilo. What did you think about Camilo?

52 Vol. 16 No. 1 José Venturelli, Sovereignty Juan Moreira: Well, Camilo is a Cuban hero, and here everyone knew the and Peace (detail), 1962, mural in the Hall of Solidarity, story of Camilo as the hero he was in the Cuban Revolution. Venturelli Habana Libre hotel, Havana. Photo: Don Li-Leger. represented him in the mural the same way as he represented Che. But for us, the Cubans, Camilo was a hero, was a leader—he died but he was a very important person, just as was Che. For me it was an honour to be able to work with Venturelli, who painted those figures; there I was helping. I am proud of being able to assist him in the process. Everyone respects Camilo.

Zheng Shengtian: Was there an opening ceremony after the mural was finished that was open to the public? Did any official event take place?

Juan Moreira: I do not remember this detail—if there was or was not.

Zheng Shengtian: Can you remember if Castro saw the painting?

Juan Moreira: I suppose he saw it, but I do not remember that precise detail. I know that Che was there, and for sure he would have told Castro about it. But I do not know if Castro went to see it later. Maybe he went one day and I did not realize it. I do not know.

Zheng Shengtian: How about the second mural at Habana Libre hotel. Can you talk a little bit about the second mural? What is the content?

Juan Moreira: It also has content that is historical, about the Revolution. I think it is in that one, in the Habana Libre, where Che is also depicted. Camilo is in the one at the Medical Retreat. But both murals have patriotic, revolutionary content.

Vol. 16 No. 1 53 Zheng Shengtian: Is Camilo also in the one at the hotel?

Juan Moreira: Do you have the image here? Many years have passed, I do not know who all the patriots are in that painting. There is José Martí. There is someone who is handing over a shovel, and he seems to be an Indian, he could be a Cuban Indian. In Camilo Cienfuegos, someone is giving an Indian a rifle so they can join the guerrillas to fight in the Revolution. In Sovereignty and Peace, there is an Indian with the sickle and that represents farming the land; that is part of the story, the idea. The mural is full of revolutionary content.

Zheng Shengtian: Does the art community in Havana celebrate those murals?

Juan Moreira: Yes, although I think they should have done more to make them evident to the public. But yes, artists and many people know them. But in my opinion they should have promoted them better. People from my generation, the artists from my generation, know the murals. But now youth are interested in conceptual art—the new art and all that—but the murals still are there for them to see.

Zheng Shengtian: Is this Camilo?

Juan Moreira: No, it is Fidel. Yes, it is Fidel drying his sweat.

Zheng Shengtian: Did you ever see Venturelli after the mural was finished, after he returned to China?

Juan Moreira: I think so, because Paz, Venturelli’s daughter, had an apartment here, and she lived here for some time, in Cuba. I knew Paz very well when she was younger, but now I am already old. I also met Venturelli’s wife, but so many years have passed.

Zheng Shengtian: Paz came back to study medicine in the university.

Juan Moreira: It’s possible, because I even saw her some years ago, we met by chance at the theatre, “Don’t you remember me? I am Paz,” “Oh, yes, Paz, how are you?” Yes, she loved Cuba very much. Yes, for sure she studied medicine here.

Zheng Shengtian: In Havana?

Juan Moreira: Yes, here in Havana. Do you remember, Alicia, Paz, Venturelli’s daughter? She sat in front of us at the theatre, and we chatted. I do not know if she continues coming to Cuba; I do not know if she still has the apartment.

Alicia Moreira: Venturelli was involved with the Taller de la Gráfica, as well.

54 Vol. 16 No. 1 José Venturelli, Sovereignty Juan Moreira: The Taller de la Gráficade la Catedral. Orlando Suárez and Peace (detail), 1962, mural in the Hall of Solidarity, directed part of the culture here, and founded with José Venturelli this Habana Libre hotel, Havana. Photo: Don Li-Leger. experimental graphic workshop close by the cathedral, where drawings were made on lithographic stones. And Venturelli went there and made drawings, and I was young, and I went to see how Venturelli did the engravings. It is called a workshop because it is a very big place with many lithographic stones where the artists draw and make engravings. It still exists, and many artists visit it; it is a very important workshop. Venturelli taught there, drew on the stones, and he taught young people who went there at that time to make engravings on stone. The first engravings on stone were made by Venturelli, and they remain there in the archives. Venturelli, besides being a great painter, a great muralist, was also a great teacher, and he liked to teach. That was his role in that workshop.

Zheng Shengtian: Yes, he did the same in China. He was our teacher. He had a studio in the Central Academy of Fine Arts in Beijing, so everybody went there to see his work. Actually, an exhibition of Venturelli's work opened last week in this academy’s museum in Beijing.

Juan Moreira: Oh, what a surprise. Yes, all that Venturelli learned in China . . . And Venturelli, just as I told you before, was a great painter, a great teacher, and a very good person who liked to teach. I have told what I remember as a younger person, of my experiences with Venturelli. If I had been of Venturelli’s generation, maybe I would have had other things to tell. But I have you told what I remember.

Zheng Shengtian: Do you have any photos from that time?

Vol. 16 No. 1 55 Juan Moreira: Unfortunately, Juan Moreria in his home, Havana. Photo: Don Li-Leger. I do not, because at the time I was not really conscious of the relevance of the situation. I keep somewhere in my files a photograph of me and other friends of mine who were visiting the mural—but I do not have it at hand. Journalists went to interview Venturelli and take photos, but Venturelli was not there, so they asked some questions and I answered. They took a picture of me with the two or three other friends who were there, and it was published in the newspaper. The article talks about Venturelli’s mural. Sadly, Venturelli does not appear in it. I would have loved to have a picture with Venturelli, if he could have taken a picture with me, hugging each other, or talking. But the day that the journalist arrived he was not there, so in the photo from the newspaper, Venturelli is not there. Venturelli is a personality, a great painter, but he came to Havana, made those two murals, and just like other painters of that time, it was something very common.

Zheng Shengtian: That is a great José Venturelli (1924–1988). Courtesy of José Venturelli story. Thank you so much. This Foundation, Santiago, Chile. is a wonderful piece of history about the dialogue between Latin America, between Cuba, Chile, and China. It is very important because these kinds of encounters have happened, but rarely do we have a good record from someone who saw them and actually participated in them.

Juan Moreira: It is my pleasure.

Zheng Shengtian: Thank you so much.

This interview was made possible with the assistance of Raquel Carrera and Tonel (Antonio Eligio Fernandez), and videotaped by Don Li-Leger. Translation and transcription by Marisol Villela.

Notes

1. Part of this research appeared in Zheng Shengtian, “Interview with Paz Venturelli Baraona,” Yishu: Journal of Contemporary Chinese Art 14, no. 5 (September/October 2015), 57–71.

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