Hello & welcome HELLO to the World Wide Web TODAY w/ HAUSU MOUNTAIN’s DOUG KAPLAN and MAX ALLISON in conversation with M Mehlan Alright hello

Max and doug here LIPNICKI OLD SCHOOL HEY GUYS! It’s Matt. I’ll be in red? ROBOTO font I’m purple (Max) -- all text must be comic sans. Sick. so fun, much new LIPNICKI NEW SCHOOL I’ll just stick with classic Black -- Doug. WOW.

SO this is a new thing - mediated conversations between people in the arts in CHICAGO - documented via the media within which the conversation happens. In this case we got a nice PRESENTATION Happening…. We’re ready to jam! Max and doug - the road to valhalla

HOW DID YOU COME TO BE in Chicago? Born & raised in the burbs. Max & I met in How / why did you Evanston at start making recs and Northwestern and releasing them via have never considered HAUSU MOUNTAIN? leaving. We started HausMo when some of Which burbs? our projects - The Big Lake Forest, IL. At Ship & Good Yeah we both did WNUR. doug What did you do at NU I studied film Willsmith were ready was the general manager for a Northwestern? and music technology for album releases && period, and held various other and was heavily didn’t have any chance positions. I was a DJ on various And you were involved in the radio of labelig it up programs involved at WNUR? station WNUR. We started a band called I was the general The Earth is a Man manager, programming which was our first director, and sort of underground fundraising director at band. WNUR DID you play shows in Evanston? Or was it always NEXTin the City? SLIDE???

Yes we tried to start playing We played in both zones. Nice nice. Dismemberment plan shows a lot, from various like Some of our first Chicago Ha - I is cool. SKAWALKER. Lol sick. northwestern related events gigs were at shitty venues was in We’d see Joan of Arc, there and also various opportunities like Ronnie’s and the emo was a band called NYMB, I in chi, like the ridiculous Bottom Lounge. LOLOL bands remember like a Sidekick Kato pay-to-play kind of circuit. the sound guy at Reggie’s and ska show… Dismemberment plan We played at REGGIE’s and it also stole my guitar! bands once at Fireside I saw… was some kind of hell. The Insult is underplaying it, of I have a memory of a band sound guy insulted doug at I’d go with SLUR. course called “LUKE SKAWALKER” length. Classic times. who played at the Arlington HTS Knights of Columbus. I am also from the BURBS - Hoffman Estates - when I was in high school there was a real scene of like Knights of Columbus punk & emo shows in various burbs - of course also Fireside Bowl… SO we’d drive all over once we were 16 to scope those… BUT moved to NY after college. In NY our first shows were totally pay to play style places. The kinda place that would poll the door.

That’s pretty sick! I was never a punk for any moment Our band The Earth is a Man was a sort of my life, but as a teenager we’d come to Chicago to of post-rock / math-rock thing / (w/ see random all ages shows at the subterannean. And i jammy vibes). So we had an emo streak, was always seeing big jamband shows but decidedly POST TAPESSSS? Did Hausu Start w/ Tapes? Why I mean, were tapes a thing for you before you started wanting TAPES? to put things out? We had friends who moved to Baltimore - and the Nautical Almanac vibe was Hanson records, American In a lot of ways we Tapes, Gods of Tundra (all really inspiring - which was probably three of these are labels run were just kind of around the same time - but it wasn’t by members and past getting into it right members of Wolf Eyes). tapes - it was like homemade objects when we were Stunned, RRR, human that related to sounds - exactly lathe starting off. We conduct, pizza night, bizarre cuts, tape loops, kind of like … garbage little ohio and NY based definitely weren’t like labels, things that we would art… I mean art made of things that find randomly online. collecting tapes until came around. Nautical almanac is tight for after college. sure. Thats the kind of stuff that we respect but don’t willfully Were you collecting / collect or propagate. Our main goal is to help spread the music Aaron dilloway is the master do you collect tapes of the garbage art loops vibe. as widely as we can and don’t try to F with having stuff be an now? unplayable novelty. . We collect tapes for sure. I buy tapes all the time. Labels like NNA, orange milk, haord, etc. will always have our love. What were some of those labels you liked - yess totally Hanson / My co-worker Erik got us into We def both collect. Max definitely American. Ah RRR totally killing Stunned Tapes early on. That’s skews towards buying new stuff and i too. buy mostly used stuff an early one I remember that was totally a zones label TAPES CONTINUED Ah man that was totally the limitation - Do tapes offer reach? For the handmade art objects aligned too heavily with art world / gallery mindset of single audiences you cultivate? Yeah i feel that. But objects - which I think limits music’s inherent ability to be shared widely also i apppreciate the Probably not when we started in 2012, but fact that the definitely now. Pretty much every facet of the self-directed label / Yah, I feel that! We definitely don’t view industry is back in the cassette game at this our releases in any sort of gallery production model point with Paul McCartney getting back into it context. We’ve entirely abandoned having on record store day as a good example of allows you unlimited things be in limited editions, actively seek that… But it’s the digital zone that has the freedom - and to distribution, etc. We want to get the real reach. The attitude of the music press show your weird things into the world of humans has changed in a lot of ways such that they wares outside of a can put a J-card JPEG into a zone an it’s like museum kind of space. In some ways tapes are prohibitive, we COOL now or something??? That’s just not quite meet so many people that are like “i the model that we don’t even have a tape deck” but for follow - we def want the people that are in the know so to to get our things out speak, tapes are super easy and convenient, small, cheap, and fun to look there and release at and handle. tapes and digital albums that people Also we always unify a single album with can easily access. a tape release and a bandcamp, along with stuff on soundcloud, etc. so people have many ways to access the music MACCA LOVES WOLF outside of popping it into their tape EYES. actually Neil decks Young literally loves wolf eyes NEVERMIND - who does the art for HM?

Even tho it’s just the I (max) do the art for From time to time one of two of us i don’t find most of our releases. I the artists already has that to be limiting. I Is it just the two of you? Can u give me a do 100% of the layout, someone else in mind or think that people these days kind of expect breakdown of duties? but end up working on wants to do it themselves and that’s totally cooool artists and labels to be Yep it’s just the two of us, much like the song of Will smith probably 65% of the with us. We really just more personable in a way, and like have a actual art content want the artists to be DO you ever get vibes / feel a limitation to itself. All of the twitter presence and happy with the final seem like real people. being artist / admin / pr / etc - i mean bridging tripped out pixel results. The only other That humanizing collages that look like artist we’ve worked with element is actually the artist / real person in the world divide. LSD SNES games are repeatedly is Sam Nigrosh really key to kind of having a “personality” my designs. who’s designed several of our LPs like Quicksails, that people get into as I think that Max is a label. All artists are Since we don’t have Grasshopper, Form A Log much more natural at Doug handles the real people in the world. any sort of bossman, / Moth Cock doing the public facing business side and the That being said, we we can take things don’t share all of our sort of stuff in a shipping, social media lives with everyone. at our own pace. natural way. I get a Every night before There is much that the When I start good amount of social Max handles the bed i wash doug’s average social media feeling those bad or anxiety at shows these feet in a giant basin follower who we don’t days and kind of shut artwork, writing press know IRL doesn’t know cluttered vibes, I’ll down when people I blurbs made of pure resin. about us. generally just slow And he falls asleep in don’t know are like it down “aren’t you that guy We both do PR stuff. my arms. from that band/label/clown” HOW DO YOU FIND people you want to work

The local scene in HOW does the local So many amazing with? chicago is so (whatever: scene, friends and inspiring wonderful. We don’t musicians in our town 100% OF OUR ARTIST ARE community, feel) In the earlier days, we would necessarily work with -- and we try to work FOUND THROUGH play in to what you often use our tours as like that many artists, with lots of them -- SOUNDCLOUD MESSAGES informal scouting seshes for the relative to the overall do? BLINDLY SENT TO US label. Now we aren’t in as much percentage of our but I feel like in a of a hunt-mode because we have artists, that are lot of ways we’re Jk jk jk Some random examples: a solid roster posse. We’ve only chicago based, but we bitchin bajas, matchess, more of a accepted a handful of artist constantly play shows globalism-core We really only work with fire-toolz (hausmo from demos and a lot of those and attend shows by artist), hogg, brett operation. I feel like people we know in real life were mediated through friends. many friends in chi, and have met usually from naucke (hausmo artist) it’s so rare now that and the scene is close playing shows. We like to see One of the funniest things knit. Our entire a city has like it’s people capable of playing There are def some about music journalism is that “practice” would be a labels out there that own sound. Everyone their stuff live, and to people are always like. WHAT lot lamer if we didn’t is pulling from a convey their personalities are like “WE ARE IS IT? Is it rock? Is it drone? have great people to STRICTLY MUSIC million billion and musical styles with What is??? The artists we like play live music with confidence in different FROM ____ CITY” and different places, to pick don’t care about those and see and chill with. wear that as a kind of settings. Not just like questions. mostly from the pumping music into the void badge of local corners of the solidarity, and that’s of the internet and hoping internet. someone cares. cool, but we just release what we want. It’s interesting - because I think you’re right - locality in music is not necessarily the THING that it once was - at least in terms of it being this thing that hangs around on an artist’s neck… BUT there’s still much to be said for the ways that an artist’s environment effects the sounds they make - do you think?

We’re no longer in a world that When all of the artists Right, so the local environment is must overcome isolation, from scene to scene, so there’s less of spend all of their time on somehow distinct from the an incubation factor - like “all the their laptop, then what is technological environment - like the hardcore music from the west coast is so distinct, SST, blah their real environment?? artist (as artist) exists and makes work blah” - right now people can access on their computer and the Internet and I think that at the same time, a million styles and traditions and everything is everything. If the artist who sits on the bus or makes just choose what they want. And it you’re a barista or something, doesn’t matter where they live. someone’s coffee for their day job - is that might not be reflected in separated out? the music you make, but it is part I think… honestly i make music of the conditions and the world personally to kind of escape the Maybe it’s just because I’m feeling really weird / that led to that music being world and transform, say, my depressed at the end of school, but I feel like there’s created. Nothing is separated, bedroom, into a weird zone that’s not separation. There is full digi/physi integration. If but the actual reality of the separate from any considerations you’re reading about an album on a website, listening music tends to probably diverge, of earth / the scene. But then to it on bandcamp, and then talking with your friends on purpose, from the day job. after that phase, the act of about it in some facebook group… the whole introducing that music into the experience is online. But the artist, when they present scene is something that has to the work to the world, isn’t like happen - to create a dialogue or a Then the live music event is promoted online, happens “I work at whole foods here’s my multi-logue with buds. in real life, but can only be preserved in the music” - they’re like “ I make digi-space. space techno to blow your mind” Well maybe the separation is purposeful - the computer is a means for separating oneself into the creative zone...

For sure. BUT i think we also have to take the idea of Totally - replace computer with “the computer” with a grain “technology” but maybe then of salt. There are many machines and devices that replace “technology” with can provide this transport apparatus, which could also be to the creative zone. I don’t something made of wood.. use a computer to make music - i do use a computer to record music, but never It is both a creative and destructive zone. I have to generate sound. So to me, been making a lot of work that is all on the the drum machine or the computer and inside of tabbed browsing -- and synthesizer serves this some of it is like willfully un-creative - just sort purpose of transporting to a of showing the banality of the whole situation. creative zone. But at the Like when you’re forced to see a notification from end of the day, i guess a GMail while you’re making music, it takes all of the drum machine is just a transcendental-ness, magic-ness out of the computer that is designed equation. It can be a means of separating yourself to do one specific task. from that sort of unknowable magic place that art Technology, for sure. Yes, can take us. But it’s interesting to me - the way the like an acoustic guitar can I’m going to go on a tiny rant here. And that is provide that transport just that … people that frame their music within a communication means (and even like as easily for some people. personal narrative to generate the kind of human “local representation”) are brought into interest appeal - like “they work as a firefighter a space of blurring - like you describe - during the day, and then make indie pop at night” - this always seems kind of exploitative to me. It’s it’s all part of the same thing. like… playing on the idea that people don’t care about the music itself and need a frame to process it. “It’s like… playing on the idea that people don’t care about the music I wonder how much itself and need a frame to process it.” Getting biographical information our people to older relatives know about I think about this A LOT. The thing I’ve been thinking about lately like… Zeppelin or steely dan. tho - is that the way that I, and/or my community of artists think listen to Probably not that much, but about the music is completely distinct from the way like my aunts music these they have a built in narrative and uncles or my in-laws or whatever think about it - which means of FM radio and like… it’s as much an outgrowth of PR necessities as is it “explaining days is a lot omnipresence with these oneself to others” ? groups that make them seem But at the same time -- here we like online like they’ve been a part of are -- three musicians talking their lives forever. Of course this frame is also about nerdy nerdy deep stuff. dating... generated very specifically Someone who doesnt have the by PR writers to get people hundreds of thounsands of hours snagged and hooked and of listening might need a little Whoa interesting parallel - let’s interested. Without that, extra something to understand bring that to the next slide! literally so many people can’t it. A lot of this has to do with step into the music and this sort of attention economny create their own sense of we’ve found ourselves in. How do taste or interest. we communicate a lot of information about this Yeah that’s def true doug. person/band in a very dense way But then it’s like… does because we might get 30 seconds knowing that ____’s album of someone’s attention. is informed by their cat and their job in a forest preserve generate any additional meaning? Maybe.. Yes totally! But that’s why it’s worth talking about trends in how people I guess it does. true. perceive locality, the self, communication? SO HOW IS GETTING PEOPLE TO LISTEN TO NEW MUSIC LIKE ONLINE DATING?

(AND HAVE YOU ONLINE DATED)? I’ve been on a few online dates in my life, but I think because, like was never super serious about it. A press attraction between people, campaign just has all of the same components people treat listening to How do you feel about that part: -- pick multiple flattering pictures of you, write music like a very “people only need 3 seconds to a story about yourself that draws people in and passionate and like judge”? contextualizes you in the world, have an intuitive process… they element of mystery… it’s just that instead of only need 3 seconds of trying to get the person to swipe right, you’re listening to something to ^^ I honestly don’t judge people for trying to get them to hit play on that judge if they like it and thinking this way. That’s kind of how soundcloud button. i approach music in a way - like… if want to continue listening, i’m scanning through something new For the 3 seconds of just like people can tell at to listen to, i can tell if i’m going to judging -- that’s more for Totally - ^^^ makes a glance typically if dig it immediately. And i’m not going like demos than bands sense to me - changes they’re attracted to a to fault people if they don’t want to that have already won my the game in that the person. Then the whole listen to a 20+ minute ambient drone heart. We both love it spotify algorithm playlist track that goes nowhere on purpose when people get to the context becomes kind of thing comes into for the sake of going nowhere. point quickly! equally important - as play, where songs are People who are more casual listeners want something to grab onto Yes I think there’s a lot of does the platform? Like chosen specifically instantly and want to be entertained value currently in the people choose the because they engage with throughout an entire track or album. succinct. dating platform that that “INSTANT LOVE” I tend to only listen to music that kind of feeling, they does this for me. But that also opens up seems to best align with trigger the love in possibilities for things that how they want to be someone that is used to a defy that value, no? viewed? certain style or genre. I found my favorite band on Pitchfork… I found my wife on Plenty of Fish. “Entertained constantly all the time” Quick Q tho - how does one We definitely gravitate I’ve been thinking about this more and towards music that is like.. more, and art school has made me qualify the bullshit or ADD overloaded with realize that entertainment is SO much non-bullshit? That’s been one information and ideas. more important than people want to of the Qs that the sort of give it credit for. If something can “Democracy of the Internet Is E.g. FIRE-TOOLZ. If you succeed in both a conceptual && the Best Thing” or take a 3 second preview of entertaining/fun manner, then that Democracy of Music Tech is thing wins. this album at any moment, the best thing - like the ease you can get an idea of what of making conceptual Angel is working towards… ^^ yes - I’ve appreciated this Internet Art or the ease of and how fully dense and kind of thinking in hanging The Residents’ (our personal heroes) motto making ambient music both has always been to “entertain and challenge” overwhelming her art is. with you Doug - refuting the have put pressure back onto their audience. I think the “challenge” comes push toward that kind of art the contextuality of whether from a kind of conceptual engagement or a school one-sided criticality? feeling of confusion or surprise, of someone is “qualified” to unfamiliarity. And the entertainment comes make that kind of conceptual from the kind of… spontaneity and willful Well I appreciate that! Thank you work… NEXT SLIDE goofiness and atypical approach to for tuning into my zone. I think a songwriting. really good example of my favorite sort of zone is something YES -- preach it like Star Trek. Something that Max. can entertain on a very surface level - that kids and grandpas can Another quick rant: i definitely have grown tired of the kind of… for lack of a enjoy together. But undernearth better term… Basinski syndrome of music making, where people embrace a kind of the simple lots, there’s an static long form concept whose individual moments or movements are indiscernible from each other… this definitely engages with the “conceptual” vibe… like “oooo incredibly complex value system, this music is trying to embody silence, or stillness, or… something” but listening to set of symbols, and hidden this music, made by someone that isn’t basinski, is truly an exercise in putting up meanings. with someone’s bullshit… like, spending time in their wanky ambient stasis just to hear one tape loop repeating forever. This is not to diss Basinski and his contemporaries, who do this kind of thing like… prototypically. If boring ambient music requires a “context” to be judged adequately by society, then i don’t want anything to do with it. My brain isn’t like engaged by thinking about the artist’s life while the one ambient loop plays. The reality of the music itself will always take precedence. Yes, la monte young is hella boring, but his vibe of boringness is so much better than the people that came after him. I think the content of la monte young’s music transcends history - i don’t think about his personal life when i jam his music. It’s not necessarily a matter of like “who did it first” or their place in history, i think LMY has staying power because his work actually cannot be matched by artists who would try to imitate it, in terms of the instrumentation, the recording practices, the ideas, the duration. I think from certain listeners’ and historical movements’ perspectives, the context is so crucial - but for others, it might only be a footnote to the power of the music. Well I dunno ^^ isn’t La Monte Young’s music kind of boring? But it’s context in history made it The wading through the bullshit has to be an I’m not disputing the fact valuable? entirely individualized process. I’ve come to the that there is boring music conclusion that there’s no such thing as good or bad being made all the time, Really I’m just trying to complicate the “inherent // there’s just what you like and what you don’t like especially in the style we’re & anyone who tries to tell you otherwise is a talking about - just saying power of music” idea because it does get conman. that it has a lot to do with tricky… On the subject of “boring ambient music” I think context… that we’re just kind of jaded about it, having sat << yes - it is individualized through hundreds of sets, fully digested the 70s I tend to think, particularly classics, etc. It just isn’t engaging to us at this in the current moment, that point. SOME of LMY is boring AF, but most of it is it’s really hard to pull a kind pretty active when compared to modern laptop of “pure music” out... ambiences. Think about The Black Record -- it’s moving around a lot, but staying centered. Or like Poem for Chairs Tables and Benches which is like And that could be harshity harsh noise. Pepole want to act like LMY is because the internet is just one thing, but he’s allll over the place. Also, in forcing us to be so GD his music, in Terry Riley’s music, in Eno’s music, self aware all the time? there’s this sense of wonderful discovery - the discovery of getthing their first. And you can hear their excitement. I don’t hear that as much in the sort of stuff that Max and I are deriding at the mome.

Some o OK LAST SLIDE! What do you want to be doing in 5 years?

Some other It took us 5 years to release about 60 releases, (W/ HM or individually?) zones I’ve been so in five years hopefully we’ll be over 100. One listening to fourth of the way to 420. Obviously lots of School has F*d be up enough that I’m recently:: tons other projects and things will happen along the < Why’d you want to do way - bands that we’re in, solo projects, etc. etc. pretty much just thinking about what’s of 80s Miles and - and those will intersect and diverge from the happening in the next few weeks. For school (side Q)? (Doug is 80s Herbie label in various ways. We definitely have no plans HausMo, we’ve gotten into a goooood getting an MFA in sound at Hancock. King & to sit still. In order to keep remaining relevant groove since about 2013 that we’re Eye by The to our listeners, our friends, our “scene” we have SAIC) to avoid treading the same ground - and just just trying to keep rolling with about Residents. 1993 keep evolving like we always have in terms of 10-15 releases a year. In the longterm, Phish. Maryanne what we release and what we’re interested in. I’d like to find a place where we can SIDE Q 2: what are you Amacher, Annea put on some shows that is ours. I’d also Lockwood.. This I’ve been listening to MIGOS- CULTURE, guys listening to RN? new Hard Vapour FUTURE - HNDRXX, all things Young Thug, like to find a part-time gig teaching, Three 6 Mafia. J-POP, anime soundtracks, video and do more volunteering in the (I’ve been playing Resistance Front game soundtracks. I saw GUCCI MANE at the community (outside of music). I also album by Fox 6 chicago theater last week and it was plan on trying to see Trey Anastasio Caetano Veloso’s Araca which is a hard transcendent. It was amazing to sing along with Azul in the bg). vapour country the entire crowd to “photoshoot” and “freaky play guitar as many times as possible, girl” and “lemonade” becuase I don’t want to be that old album. I’ve been DJing the hippie that’s sad because they didn’t OH MAN I LOVE ARACA AZUL !!! SO interview zone. We see Jerry enough times. INCREDIBLE!!!! “Sugarcane Fields Forever”. listened to a healthy That album is truly a trip from start to finish. portion of a Dead The horns on “EPICO” are my favorite. So many MFA zone -- When I started two YES! > show from 12/9/81 beautiful moments on that LP. i love all of years ago, it was just a very logical life Do you know and are now