Special Adjoumment. (16 SEPT., 1885.] .Mineral Purchases. 225 proceed with the bill as it stands, I am 11egizlatiue ~szem!tlp. prepared to go on with it. If, on the other hand, there is either expressed by Weclnesday, 16 September, 1885. the President or by the House a desire that the safer course to adopt will be to Prospect Water Scheme-Mineral Conditional Purchases introduce the bill as I have altered it, I Conditional Purchases Validating Bill-Pacific Mail shall be prepared, with the permission of Ser\'ice-Civil Service Temporary DJ,"aftsmen-Elcc· the House, to withdraw the present bill torn! Roll, District of Camden-Wantabadgery Bush rangers-Personal Explanations-Debtors to R:-.ilway and substitute the altered one. The altera Department-Proposed Hail way Extensions-Elections tions have necessarily been numerous. and Qualifications Committee--Governor's 8pe~ch : They have all been of the same character, Address in Reply. and that is the omission of provisions which may be regarded as infringements of the privileges of the Legislative .As sembly. If that course is sanctioned by Mr. SPEAKER took the chair. the House I will, with its permission, withdraw the present bill, substitute the PROSPECT WATER SCHEME. amended one, and move the second reading Mr. PROCTOR (for Mr. .AmGAIL)asked of the latter, so as to avoid delay, on the SECRETARY FOR PuBLIC vVORKS, Wednesday next, which is fixed .as the (1.) Can he state how long it will take day on which the second reading of the from now to complete the Prospect vV ater bill shall be moved. My only an..'Ciety is Scheme~ (2.) What amount of money to proceed with the public business ; and has already been expended upon them, I am entirely at the disposition of the' and how much is it expected to require to House in the determination of the course complete the whole of the works 1 to be pursued. Mr. WRIGHT answered,-(1.) So far Mr. DARLEY: I desire to draw the as can be judged, about eighteen months attention of the House to certain resolu will be required for this purpose. This is of tions •of the House of Commons which course exclusive of the Prospect dam, which were passed in the year 1849 for facili is a work of such a character that it is not tating the introduction of bills of this desirable to hurry it on faster than it is nature in the House of Lords. In the being prosecuted at present. (2.). The first instance I may mention that we in sum of £1,312,.154 16s. was expended to this Chamber about the year 1870"or 1871 the 31st .August last, and a further sum adopted these rules as far as we were of £254,689 17s. 1d. will be required, in concerned. addition to that of £145,663 4s. ld., as . The PRESIDEXT : I would suggest to per estimate laid upon the table of the hon. members that it might be preferable House on the lOth October, 1883. to posLpone the discussion of this matter until the bill comes before us. Every MINERAL CONDITIONAL PURCHASES. hon. member will be glad to hear the Mr. W. J. FERGUSSON asked the opinion of the hon. and learned member, SECRETARY FOR 1\'liNES,-Is it the inten Mr. Darley, on this subject; but I think tion of the Government to take any action' it will be much more convenient to take to legalise mineral conditi-onal purchases the discussion once for all when the bill made on gold-fields with the sanction of comes up. I do not say this out of any the Government, such mineral conditional disinclination to deal with the question, purchases having been declared illegal by but because I think it best for the interests the Supreme Court 1 of the House. Mr. DARLEY: I quite agree with 1\fr. J. P. ABBOTT answered,-The Mr. President that it may not be con matter has engaged the attention of the . venient to discuss the matter now. I Government. It is one of so much im will therefore defer to a future occasion portance that it cannot be dealt with ex what I intended to ~ay. cept after-the most careful consideration, and I cannot say at present whether the Question resolved in the affirmative. Government will this session submit a House adjourned at 5·42 p.m. measure to deal with the matter. p
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.. • I 226 Validating Bill. [ASSEMBLY. J Pe1·sonal Explanations. •· CONDITIONAL PURCHASES (3.) If the roll for 1885-86 is made out VALIDATING BILL. and is not to be used, what course is it Mr. MELVILLE (for 1\'Ir. LouGHNAN) intended to take with regard to the forth asked the SECRETARY FOR LANDS,-When coming election in that respect 1 ( 4.) Is does he intend to introduce a validating!bill it intended to adopt entirely the roll for to deal with matters relating especially to 1884-85, or only that part or parts of it conditional purchases which cannot be which have not been correctly or legally dealt with under the provisions of the act made out for 1885-861 of 18841 Sir ALEXANDER STUART an Mr. FARNELL answered,-A bill will swered,:--.rn consequence of certain mis be introduced so soon as the public ousiness takes made in colleching and revising the ~vill permit. electoral lists for Camden, a complete roll PACIFIC li1AIL SERVICE. for 1885-86 could not be compiled accord 1\Ir. BURNS asked the CoLONIAL SEc ing to law. The Attorney-General there RETARY,-\Vhether it is the intention of fore directed, . in accordance with the the Government to make any proposal to Electoral Act, that the roll for 1884-85 Parliament during the present session in be substituted for the imperfect new one. reference to the continuance of the Pacific The shortest way, doubtless, is to pass a l\Iail Service 1 short act to remedy the defect, as was done Sir ALEXANDER STUART an in the case of The Bogan in 1869. wered,-N egotiations are at present in pro gress-of conrsetheyare to a certain extent W A.t~TABADGERY BUSHRANGERS. of an intricate nature-for an arrangement Sir HENRY PARKES said that the by which this service can be continued. Colonial Secretary hau evidently miscon The moment anything definite is arrived at ceived a question which he put to him the it will be submitted to the House with a other night. He asked for the production view to obtain the sanction of Parliament. of papers relating to the vVantabadgery bushrangers, but the papers which had CIVIL SERVICE TE~IPORARY been produced were those relating to the DRAFTS:\'IEN. recent case of Frank Johns. The papers Mr. OLLIFFE asked the CoLONIAL which he wanted were those relating to SECRETARY,-(!.) Is it his intention to in the bushrangers when they were first troduce during th!') present session a bill arrested. empowering the Government to take on Sir ALEXANDER STUART: I per to the permanent staff a number of gentle fectly understood the request made by the men now and for a long time past tempo-· hon. member; but, unfortunately, I was rarily employed, but who have been per absent ft·om my o,ffice yesterday owing to forming duties of a like natRre to the per illness, and the wrong papers were pre manent staffs of different departments~ sented to the House. The papers required (2.) If not, do the Government conceive by the hon. member will be placed on the that, without contravening the spirit of table immediately. the Civil Service Act, they can make such appointments ; and will they do so 1 PERSONAL EXPLANATIONS. Sir ALEXANDER STU ART an Mr. McELHONE : I have no wish to swered,-There are certain disabilities, I move the adjournment of the House ; but think, which have been inadvertently I think that it is due to the House that I placed upon a portion of those who are should offer a personal explanation re called temporary draftsmen, and an en specting certain statements which were deavour will be made to rectify the matter made in the House last night by the hon. this session. member for Northumberland, Mr. Melville. ELECTORAL ROLL, DISTRICT OF I am sure that in this matter hon. mem CAMDEN. bers and the public out of doors will believe Mr. GARRETT asked the COLONIAL what I say, and will not believe the hon. SECRETARY,-(!.) Has the electoral roll member for Northumberland. I am sorry for the electoral district of Camden for the that I was not here last night ; I little year 1885-86 been made out, and is it dreamt that the subject would be brought being printed~ (2.) If not, for what reason~ forward. Personal Expla;nations. [16 SEPT., 1885.] Personal Explanations. 227
Mr. ABIGAIL : The hon. member had no I say positively that this statement is ab knowledge that it was to be brought solutely untrue from beginning to encl. I forward! · will show that the hon. member came to Mr. McELHONE : The matter was in me with a plan, as I thought, to try to the hands of the hon. member for Armi square me in the matter. dale, Mr. Proctor. The day before Parlia He then challenged the bon. member to bring ment met I asked the hon. member for the charge forward. West Sydney, Mr. Abigail, to bring it That is also untrue; the hon. member before the House ; but he declined to do never asked me to bring the charge for so on the ground of my making it a per ward. sonal matter. On Vi' ednesday evening Mr. MELVILLE : I did, on the balcony last, as the hon. member for Armidale had upstairs! failed to take action, I again asked the Mr. McELHONE : I told the hon. hon. member for West Sydney to move member for Orange, Mr. W. Clarke, and for the appointment of a committee to in other hon. members about the matter. quire into the matter. The hon. member Mr. MELVILLE: 'l'here was no affidavit again made the same 'objection. I said to then! him, " Your objection cannot hold good if Mr. McELHONE: I showed the you move for a committee ; let the House affidavit to the hon. member for Orange; pick the committee, and let them take the he read it on top of the Potts' Point evidence of Mr. Ross." The hon. member omnibus. This took place two or three declined to do so, therefore I had no idea days after the hon. member spoke to me that the matter would be brought forward on the balcony. last night. The papers have been in the ·what had been the conduct of the bon. member hands of the hon. member for Armidale for The Upper Hunter? After telling him there for two months. The hon. member for was nothing in it, that he had simply acted as agent, what took place? Mr. McElhone, in com Northumberland is reported to have said pany with Beale and Sparks, revisited Mr. Ross, last night: and tendered to him the information that he had He would show that this was one of the foulest been robbed. They asked him for the facts of the conspiracies that could possibly be conceived or case. Afterwards met in Sparks' house, and dis carried out by a member of this Assembly. Mr. cussed the matter. On another night they went Ross had been advised to sign the affidavit to Ross's house by appointment, taking with through being told that he had been robbed of them a copy of an affidavit which they wantecl £80, and should lend his assistance to bring such Mr. Ross to sign, and that affidavit was now in a robbery to light. He would prove that the the hands of the bon. member for The Upper hon. !llember for The Upper Hunter (Mr. Hunter, who was anxious to bring him ~Mr. McElhone}, in company with two persons named • Melville} into the muddle which he himself had Sparks and BeaJe, had worried Jl.fr. Ross day got into. after day, and night after night, until they suc Which is untrue. ceeded in getting him to sign the affidavit. According to Mr. Ross's statement, he met those The hon. member for The Upper Hunter had gentlemen in a nice little hotbed in Sydney, been begging in the Chamber for some one to and he also stated before Mr. Luscombe that he champion his cause, and now the bon. member did not wish to meet them again. had risen up to stand between him and his accuser. The affidavit taken to Mr. Ross-and I should like to know how the other hon. he wished to call serious attenticm to the affidavit member for Northumberland came to in read that afternoon-stated that Hardie and terfere in the matter. Who induced him Gorman valued th~ land at £300. to see Mr. Ross 1 Did he go to try to I need not read any more of the hon. square the matter, and get Mr. Ross to member's speech. The very evening on malfe a statement different from that con which Parliament was called together to tained in his declaration 1 consider the action of the Government in The officers of the Railway Department were sending the contingent to the Soudan, or placed at a Yery low price when it was thought the next day, I was standing on the back that £25 would be sufficient to bribe them, and verandah smoking with the hon. member to pay himself. He met the bon. member (Mr. McElhone} the day after Parliament opened last for Parramatta ; there were two or three session, and said to him, "I believe you have a hon. members sitting on the sofa. The charge to bring against me, that I sold some hon. member for Northumberland came up land to the Government; that my client got and said to me, "I want to speak to you £400, and I got £200." The bon. member re plied, " There is nothing in the -- thing. I . privately;"· I .said, " There is nothing saw old Ross last night." private between us ; what do you want to • 228 Pe1·sonal Explanations . [ASSEMBLY. J Pe1·sonal Explanations.
say~" He said, "I want to tell you som!il went to Mr. Sparks' house, and.from thElre ..,.. thing privately." I said, "Out· with it; I went to see Mr. Ross, but he was out at. there is nothing private between us." the time trying to do good by preaching Shortly afterwards the bell rang, and the the gospel. I then made an appointment members who were sitting there went with Mr. Sparks to meet him at 7·30 p.m. do>~n stairs. I then said to the hon. mem to go to Mr. Ross's house again, so as to ber, " What do you want to say~" He have the matter settled as soon as possible. said, "You have been told that I am going On getting out of the tram at Newtown to move that you be expelled from Parlia bridge I met Mr. Sparks ; Mr. Beale was ment." I said, "I have not been told with him, and we were introduced to each anything of the sort; I am simply holding other. Mr. Beale then corroborated what my seat to give you an opportunity to do Mr. Sparks had told. me, namely, that so ; otherwise I should have resigned when Mr. Ross had told them, in the presence I returned to the colony." The hon. mem of their wives, what I am going to relate ber then said, " There is not a word of now. I went down and saw l\'lr. Ross, truth in it ; I am not going to move in and I told him what I had come for-what the matter at all." He then said, "I saw Mr. Sparks and Mr. Beale had told me. you in bad company on Saturday night." Mr. Ross said that what they had told me I said, "Indeed, who were they~" He with reference to his transactions with the replied, "Sparks and Beale." The hon. hon. member was perfectly tru·e. Here member ,said that Sparks was a store let me remark that when I had the con keeper. The fact is that he is the trusted versation with the hon. member, and he and confidential storekeeper of Messrs. told me that Sparks and Beale were Jl,'l:ontefiore, Joseph, and Company. As for bigoted Orangemen, I said, " I want to Mr. Beale, I never saw him until I went get some information from them." The to him to hear him verify what I had been bon. member said, "I know all about it ; told. I believe that the two gentlemen it is about Ross's affair ; there is nothing have been aldermen in the local council. in that; Ross bought the land, but he The hon. member spoke of Mr. Sparks could not pay fo~· it, and the people from being a storekeeper, as 'though it is some whom he purchased were pressing him; thing disgraceful to be a storekeeper. I he was in ·difficulties, and he asked me as am one of those who think that there is no a friend to get the money for the land disgrace attached to any man's occupation, which had been resumed by the Govern so long as he gets his living honestly. The ment." This is absolutely word for word hon. member said to me, "They are bigoted. what the bon. member told me. When I Orangemen, who would eat a Roman told Mr. Ross what I had heard; he said Catholic." I said, "Well, they hltve not it was perfectly true. The words he used eaten me." He said, "You had better be were these, "The Government resumed a on your guard; they are bad characters." piece of my land at Newtown for railway I said, " I do not know what they are ; purposes; Hardie and Gorman valued it but I was told on the day when you gave at £300, but I wanted £400, and I sent a. evidence in the Evening .News case that claim for that a:qtount to the proper officer; Mr. Sparks wanted to see me with refer I told Mr. Melville that Hardie and Gor ence to an affair with which you were con man had valued it at £300, and that I had nected." I went to Messrs. Montefiore, claimed £400 ; I said to him, 'If you get Joseph, and Con:ipany's store to see Mr. the £400 for me I will give you £25 for Sparks, and I made an appointment to meet getting it for me.'" He went on to say him at his house. I did not know where that before he received the mpney the bon. his house was, and I called at Mr. Robert member came to him and said, "I want Fowler's house to ask him if he could tell cash from you," and on being asked what . me where Mr. Sparks lived. I then told for he said, "I have not received payment l\1r. Fowler what my business was, and what yet, and. I must have cash to work with, Mr. Sparks had told me with reference to because I have to use part of the money the hon. member. I ashd Mr. Fowler what to pay some of .the clerks of the depart sort of a man Mr. Ross was-if he was likely ment." 1\'l:r. Ross said to me, "I car,not to deny his word. Mr. Fowler said, " If think of the name of the clerk whom Mr. Ross said that, he will stick to it." I then Melville mentioned, but I dare say I shall [.Llfr: McElhone. Personal Explanations. [16 SEPT., 1885.] Personal Explanations. 229 be able to recollect it before long, and I quested that they might be omitted. He • will give it to you." I then left Mr. Ross's said, "Leave those words out, and I will place, and when walking along the New swear before the committee exactly what town Road I saw the hon. member talking I have told you." His son made a copy to three or four people who were standing of the affidavit, and it was taken to Mr. on the edge of the pathway. The moment McCoy, the magistrate. I was there by that the hon. member saw me with Mr. appointment at eleven o'clock one day, Sparks and Mr. Beale he turned his back for the purpose of having the sworn on the people with whom he was conversing declaration made ; but Mr. Ross was not and started off. On getting the informa there, and having waited half an hour, I tion I went to the valuator's office; I saw · went away, leaving the declaration with Mr. Byrnes, the chief valuator, and told the magistrate. Mr. Ross's son not only him what had been stated-that a certain made copies of the affidavit, but he read party had made a claim against the them to his father. Government ; that a member of Parlia Mr. MELVILLE : We will hear what the ment had received £25 to get it through, son says when he is on his oath! and that he had said that some of the Mr. McELHONE: The hon. member clerks were to receive part of the money. for Northumberland seems to think that I asked him whet.her he would let me he has not been fairly treated, and that I know the valuation of Ross's property. ought to have brought the matter before He turned over the books and said the House myself; but I thought that as that the valuation including 10 per cent. the hon. member had made a charge for forced resumption was £448 16s. I against me-a charge in which there was went into another department to get the not a shadow of truth,-it would be better names of the various clerks whose names if tl1is matter were placed in the hands of appeared on the papers. I brought the some other hon. member. vVhen I had names out to Mr. Ross, thinking that if obtained the affidavit the hon. rnem ber for,' he saw them he might be able to remem Orange asked me if there was any truth ber the "name of the clerk Mr. Melville in the matter. I handed him the sworn .had named to him. However he could declaration and told him word for word not do so. As to the affidavit the mat what had passed between the hon. mem ter was of such a serious nature, and ber for North urn berland and myself in involved such a grave charge against a reference to the matter. The hon. member meinber of the legislature, that I felt it told the House, I believe, that I went to my duty to obtain the sworn testimony qf • him about the matter ; that is not true ; Mr. Ross, in case the hon. member should the hon. member came to me. I felt that use his influence-and I believe he has it was not my place to tell the hon. mem done so-with a view to induce him to tell ber what I knew about the matter. I a different story. I went to Mr. Ross's had not the sworn affidavit at that time, house again in company with Mr. Sparks and I thought that I ought not to tell him and Mr. Beale-! believe I was there what Mr. Ross told me. I thought it altogether about three times-and I wrote quite possible that if I did so he would down the man's statements at his own influence Mr. Ross to make a statement dictation, no one interfering. I wrote at variance with that which he had upon a sheet of foolscap word for word at first made. When I had the sworn what the affidavit contains, with the ex declaration in my hands I did not care ception of a few words in connection with who knew about the matter. I was re the hon. member's request that he might cently advised by several hon. members receive cash. Mr. Ross said that to the to resign my seat-the hon. member for best of his belief the words used were, " I Hartley was one of those who gave me the shall want some money to grease the advice-and go before my- constituents in wheels," or words to that effect. Mr. order to justify what I had done in the Ross was given distinctly to understand matter which was brought under the that the money was required to tip some notice of the !louse by the hon. member ()f the clerks ; he thought however that for N orthumherland. I said, " I will do the words to which I have referred would nothing of the kind ; I have done nothing not look well in the affidavit, and he re- wrong, and ,if I resign my seat it will be ,. 230 Personal Explanations. [ ASSEMBJ;,Y.] Pe1·sonal Explanations. an admission that I have." I told several that Mr. Ross
232 • Gove1·nor' s Spe~ch : [ASSEMBLY.] . Add1·ess in Reply. •• "said that the Government intended to con be condoned 1 If ministers give their •. vene Parliament to meE:t in the early-part word why should it not be kept, and why · · · of May, and the Attorney-General repeated should the Parliament be degraded in order . t- the same statement in the other Chamber, that the public outside may be humbugged, and the House was induced to assent to and deceived, and rob bed of their undoubted certain proposals on the faith of that rights1 Ministers got the estimates passed promise. Now, what is the meaning o£ through the House on the distinct under 1f.. this~ This House ought to be an honor standing that they would meet Parliament able body. How can it be an honor in May or early in the winter. I appeal able body i£ men occupying the highest to those hon. members who are familiar positions in the country can thus violate with the Stock Exchange, and are accus their pledges 1 How can we expect that tomed to engage in commercial transactions, honor and dignity will attach to our to say what would happen if a merchant •
~·· ' Assembly, how can we expect to have any pledged his word that he would meet a weight in Parliament or in the country, payment on a certain day and dishonored J· wl1~n no matter how a minister !may his pledge~ Would we find people willing violate 'his sacred pledge, no matter how to give a guarantee of tee commercial .. l1e may pull down the safeguards that sur- probity of a man who would do that~ I ~ •lfround the Constitution of this country, we am sorry to say that representative insti • find men willing to palliate the offence 1 tutions and parliamentary government in <. Le~t it may be said that I am not doing this country are endangered by the ruen justice to the Colonial Treasurer I shall who are sent here from time to time. Some quote the words he used on the occasion to of the greatest men in Austra)j.a, with vast which I refer. On the 19th November, experience and splendid intellects, are last year, he said : allowed to address in this Chamber empty .,_, The Government is fulfilling the pledges of its benches, while hon. members are smoking 1'1 existence as rapidly as possible. iYe trust to their "dhodeens" in the smoking-room. meet Parliament in the earlier part of May Is that ~he way to carry on representative next, and in that session to succeed in passing, and we shall certainly do our best in that direc government~ What is the good of this tion, a local government bill, and hon. members Parliament at all; what is the good of will then, as with the Civil Service Act, be re experience and erndition if ·it is displayed lieved of much of their labour of a detail here to empty benches, and hon. members chantcter, and be enabled to give their time to come into the Chamber and look to see matters more specially within: the functions of a legislature. If hon. members refer to page 13 on :which ~;ide the Government are, in of Ways and Means-Consolidated Revenue order that they may record their ignoble they will see the items of taxation and revenue vote with them 7 That vote, however, from which we expect to obta,in increases in 1884. keeps the Ministry in office, and permits The Colonial Treasurer on that occasion this degrading prostitution of parliamen .pledged his word and the word of the Go tary government-that men can violate \'ernment that we should meet in May. their pledges, can endanger the health o£ On the samo day the Attorney-General in the citizens of ·the country, and then come the Upper House made these remarks : and ask Parliament to conuone what they •. The measures-one of them of the very greatest have done. They have nothing to dread • importance-which can be submitted to Parlia- from the experience of a Parkes ; they 14 ment in the session of 1885 will require to be have nothing to dread from the fiery b- carefully considered b~( the Government, and charge of the hon. and learned member abundant time will be afforded for this work by a reasonable recess which will terminate suffi for Mudgee; they have nothing to dread ciently en.rly to enable the business of Parlia- from the darts hurled at them Parthian 1t.• ment to be transacted during the winter months )ike b'y the hon. and learned member for of the year. . • Morpeth, nor from the combined intelli This was promised in order that we might gence of the House. They know that they have, an opportunity of considering mea- are safe, because they are sustained in ~ .J/1 sures of great importance. How have they their seats by men who go to the people of fulfilled their promise~ They have violated the country and induce them to send them it, and they can tell to-night to a man how here in order to perpetrate a lie-in order •· many members are going to vote for them .. to become pliant tools in the hands of, it Is this a place where such conduct should may be, an unscrupulous ministry. I say [ M1·. O'Connor .
.., ..• k Governor's SzJeech : [16 SEPT., 1885.] Address in Reply. 233. ... that such a state of things must be brought the Local Government Bill to the Public ~ to an end, or else the liberties of the people Health Bill : One of our most eminent e of this country will cease. It cannot go citizens, 1\ir. James Fairfax, took a great • on without reducing members of Parlia interest in calling a public meeting in • ment to a condition from which every Sydney to consider that important mea- honorable man should shrink. And this sure, that deals with a matter which every is done by those vigorous gentlemen who one in the House must admit to be one of promised to do so many good things for the greatest importance. The meeting was w4 the people of this country-who came here held at tl:e Town Hall, among others who proclaiming that this state of things which were present being the distinguished and was in existence before should be blotted cultured Primate of the Church of Eng- ont. They put themselves forward as the land, to whose great speech it was a treat apostles of freedom, but tl1ey are the dis for those present, as I was, to listen. I ciples of perdition. I have marvelled met Mr. Fairfax the next day in George- ·~\' "(. .. , often to hear leading men here accuse the street, and I told him not to make any i' Government of wrong-doing. ·why, the mistake; that the splendid labours.9f hi_ni- • Government consists of only eight mem self and those who were acting with him · .. bers, and what could eight men do in this would be of no avail, because the Gooa,... . · . House if they were not supported ~ I say vernment were not sincere, and had• • · that the men to be impeached are the no intention whatever to pass a public ' .f men who support the Government, because health bill. 1\ir. Fairfax will now be able , . by their support they put thflm into a to estimate the value of the statement I position of certified security. The Govern made to him, though perhaps he was in- ment promised the House and the country clined to discount it at the time on account that they would introduce a local govern of the position I occupy as a humble mem .. ment bill and a public health bill, and not ber of the Opposition. To !lhow the reck- • , only to introduce them but to deal with · less character and the incapacity of the them. But what did the Minister for Government, they sat still in idleness, in Lands say at Gosford in one of his most a stolid, fortified idleness, while messages lucid intervals during that little picnic~ startling to every man in the community He said that the Government intended were arriving every morning from Europe only to lay the bills on the table ; that informing us that thousands of our fellow- they did not intend to pass them. "What creatures were dying owing to the neglect is the meaning of this contradiction~ The of sanitary laws, and failed to convoke Government know very well that if the Parliament to give us an opportunity.._of Local Government Bill were passed, they dealing with the great question of the' would have to walk out of Parliament; public health. After a recess of nearlya that their existence would not be tolerated year, interrupted only by the short session for twenty-fottr hours afterwards. But held to condone the Soudan infamy, the} they have no intention of pa~sing the bill. Attorney-General introduced the bill in• They know full well that such a measure the other House, and after some considera- "i· could not be passed in less than six tion the able and cultured gentleman who months, while this Parliament, even if it presides over that Chamber pointed .. out .f runs to the full period of its term, cannot that it was impossible to go on with the" • exist longer than three months. What, measure in that Chamber, and the _4,t-~ ,._ then, is the meaning of this humbug~ Is torney-General asked the House to allow}' it not dishonorable, is it not degrading in him a fortnight to consider what shop.ld ··~ a government charged with the great func be done. I should like to hear some one • tion of administering the public affairs of stand up here and justify the position) "'F this country, that they should do such a the Government have taken up in this thing, and that hon. members should sus matter, and which a majority of this tain them in doing it~ It must be apparent House sustains them in. ' to the most limited intelligence in the Mr. MuRRAY: The majority rules!'' , House that the professed intention of the Mr. O'CONNOR: That was said when) Government to pass a local government the cup of poison was held to the lips of bill is nothing but a fraud-that the Go Socrates, and when Jesus of Nazareth vernment are not sincere. And to go from was led to the cross. Certainly the rna- Fifth night. ·• 234 .Gove?·nor' s Speech• : [ASSEMBLY.] Adcl?·ess in Reply. jority must rule; but we ought to have some of us will hold a seat; natural life is an enlightened majority to be in harmony· very uncertain, but political life is very with the institutions of the country. much more so. In one case we obey the Mr. TARGETT : A majority said, " Re Creator, in the other we obey creatures lease unto us Barrabas" ! who are easily and often mistakenly led. Mr. O'CONNOR : There are a good However, it is a noble privilege which we many political Barrabases. Why have the have-that of leaving behind us a great Government withdrawn the Health Bill, example by breaking down the time-dis about which they boasted so much~ How honored practice of continuing in power often have they told us of the great good men who have no sense of honor, or recti , which would result from the passing of a tude, or sincerity in their proposals. No . local government bill~ man rejoices more than I do when I hear Mr. McELHONE : A week's rain would a minister successfully refute any charge do more good than all their bills ! which may be made against him. Of ,;. Mr. MuRRAY : What about the last course it is a very easy thing to make Local Government Bill~ charges; but when a charge is accompanied Mr. O'CONNOR: This Parliament was by documents which seem to show that specially elected to make improvements on it is· well founded, the person charged the old state of affairs. ought not to lose a ruoment in reply Mr. MuRRAY: We passed a new land ing to it, more particularly if he is law! in a position to refute it. I know ~-Mr. O'CONNOR: What a thing to that there are some men who, in obedience boast about ! to a natural curse, are in the habit of Mr. GARRETT : You will be sorry before making foul charges for which there is no long that you passed it ! foundation whatever; but when a man, ·Mr. MuRRA,Y: No fear! who stands in a high position in this little Mr. O'CONNOR: No one ought to world of ours, comes forward here, and speak about the Land Act; I say let it without any love for the task, but simply have a fair trial. I know how it was animated by the laudable desire to keep carried. I think it is the worst act passed the Parliament pure, makes serious charges in any part of the habitable globe, not against a mem her of a government-as even excepting the act passed for the union charges have been made against a member of the native land of the hon. member for of this Government-the member charged, Inverell. I know the infamy by which . or one of his colleagues, ought to stand up it was carried in this House. The bill and refute those charges, and thus give was changed and rechanged to please cer peace and contentment to every honorable tain men in the House, and hon. members man in the House. I should not support know it. It was changed by the Govern- any man who made a charge simply for "· ment so that t)ley might secure a majority. the purpose of damaging the Government; Mr. i"IcELHONE: The hon. member voted but when charges are made in public for the second re::>"ding of it ! they go on the wings of the press. When Mr. O'CONNOR: I did vote for the this happens, a proper regard for the second reading, so as to give the House an dignity of Parliament requires that the opportunity to deal with the measure; but charges should be met_witl}.out any delay. when I found that the Government were Well, most damning charges have been not going to pass a bill for the country, made against the Minister for Lands. No but for a small wealthy section, I voted man in. this House has a more kindly against it. I think that when we come to feeling for the bon. member than I have, .. consider the gravity of the charges involved and no one would go further to do him a in the amendment· proposed by the hon. personal service than I would, and I must member for The Hunter, any fait· body of express my regret that he has shown such men must at once recognise their import a lack of dignity and of appreciation of ance, and vote for the amendment. I think the exalted position which he occupies in that this is an occasion when it would be allowing the charges to remain unanswered. of the greatest importance for hon. mem The charges are that his office is made the bers to leave a good example behind them. means whereby relatives of his wring This may be the last parliament in which black-mail from the people of~ the country, [.ilf?:. O'Connor. Governor's Speech:· (16 SEPT., 1885.] ·. Add1·ess• in Reply. 235 and use an act of Parliament, passed for was no particular necessity to convoke the benefit of the people, to increase their Parliament. As the reasons in favour of 4 own income. These charges ought to be such an amendment are ever so much refuted.at once. To say that the Minister stronger in the present instance than they does not know of them would be to do him were in the other case, I claim the votes of a great injustice. The people in the re every bon. member who supported that motest parts of the colony have heard of amendment. The Government ought to • the charges. I shall be heartily glad if be condemned for befooling Parliament by the bon. member successfully refutes the calling us together to deal with measures charges. If these charges are not answered the actual reading of which would take up in this House they will be answered more time than we have at our disposal. by the people at the next general Some fault has been found with the Go • election; but we have no right to vernment for putting up the Minister of i._ remit such matters to the people. It Public Instruction to reply to the mover R is our duty to deal with them here. of the amendment. I say that the hoil. From the depth of my soul I am angry gentleman was the proper man to put J~p, with the bon. gentleman for remaining as he fairly represents the mediocrity of silent so long under these awful charges the Government. \Vhat answer to the charges which, if passed unnoticed, must charge about not convening Parliament' • tend to weaken the respect which we are earlier is it to say that other governments supposed to show to law and authority. have acted in the same way~ vVe are t.5ld What must be the feelings of the people if that this is an enlightened age; we. have they get the idea in their heads that schools here, th~re, and everywhere; but if justice is not to be secured in the Lands the people will tolerate such miserable Office, except by .the employment of reasoning as this they must be the most ministers' relatives at a high fee ~ What ignorant set of people on the face of t.he must they think when they discover that globe. We ought to pay the same atten- t.he profound legal learning of 1\fr. Darley, tion to our duties here as we pay to the the ingenuity and perseverance of Mr. conduct of our private affairs. You do not Salomons, and the earnest advocacy of find a business man going into his office at men like Mr. Pilcher anJ Mr. M. H. 1 o'clock in the afternoon, when he ought Stephen are of no avail against the in to have been there at 9 in the morning. fluence of a couple of land agents who are You do not find a farmer commencing to related to the Minister~ These charges plough and harrow a quarter of an hour contain a reflection on every member of before sunset. That is precisely the posi- the Ministry, and it is deplorable that the tion in which we are at present. It is no ministers should pay no heed to them, fault of the press that the peopledonotknow Such a degrading state of things must be what is going on. Our press is extended reversed ; this poison must be removed far and wide, and the city press give more~ from the political system. It can be done prominence to speeches in parliament, and .by courageous and honest men in Par to politics, than do newspapers in other liament, and by the potency of the press, parts of the world, not excepting the and it must be done. Such a state of London Times. In the face of the·'fact corruption has no parallel in political that the people must know what is bemg history, not even in the time of Walpole. done, we have bon. members rounded up It will be within the recollection of bon. here like a lot of bullocks. Who is troubled members that when the late Government about the convocation of Parliament~ were in office the present Premier moved We could not suppose that ministers an amendment similar to that which would trouble their heads about the m~t- is now before us. At that time the Parlia ter. They knew very well that whenever ment had eighteen months of its natural they met the House they would find a life to run, the Premier had been on a trip majority willing to support them in any to Europe to recruit his health, and every course which they might have taken. Is it one wished him well in that expedition. likely that the bon. member for Boorowa; Whilst that fact was not held to be a valid or that the bon. member for East Sydney reason why Parliament should not be (Mr. Griffiths) would run after ministers convoked, the people thought that there and say, "Instead of meeting the House Fifth night. 236 Governor's Speech• : [ASSEMBLY.] Add1·ess in Reply. in the_month of June or July, you ought :M:ahdi was marching, that he would soon " to meet it in May." The longer Parlia be in Cairo, and that the English force ~ent is prorogued, the better for all hon. there would be completely annihilated. members who have private business to The hon. gentleman appf1trently did not which to attend. Thus it is that ministers know that the Mahcli would have-if his and supporters study one another's con prediction were fulfilled-to travel in venience, and there is a proportionate forty-eight hours over 2,500 miles of neglect of public business, a violation of mountainous and rugged country. While public pledges, and a degradation of Par-· I am talking of the so-called· honor and liament. This state of things must come glory of this P.xpedition let me refer to to an end, and the sooner the better. the gentleman who inspired the Govern • It is not the outcome of the acts of the ment with the idea for which they have • present Ministry only. To a certain ex taken so much credit--this grand genuine ,... tent it may be called a heritage from old soldier, who has served the Queen their predecessors ; but they should have and his country in nearly every battle rejoiced in and taken advantage of the field of Europe within the past fifty opportunity to abolish so bad a practice. years-Sir Edward Strickland. When When the Government took office, one the Government were recej.ving the con would suspect from all that one heard that gratulations of the whole colony, while they _intended to effect a radical change the most fulsome laudation was being in the whole of our laws. As a mat showered upon the Attorney-General by, ter of fact no Government in this colony the press they carefully kept in the back has done more to .damage the country. ground the name of the gentleman to Another matter to which I desire to refer whom they were indebted for the idea. is the Soudan expedition. Of course we And when, a few days ago, it was placed know that the Government from the in in th'e power of the Government to confer ception of their connection with the marks of distinction on certain officers the affair were grossly ignorant of the facts of name of this roan who, by the way, has the case. When they made their offer to carried the Victoria Cross upon his breast the Imperial Government they did not for the past forty years and whose naroeis even understand the a b c of the matter. well known in Europe on account of the I pointed out the fact to hon. members, but service which he has rendered upon battle of course the Government would not listen fields, was forgotton. In this respect I to so humbl~ an individual as myself. This think the Government showed not only was actually the state of things even when the smallness of their minds, but the now the members of the Government were notorious ingratitude of their natures. The going about the country telling the people fact of the matter is that they were jealous that we ought to be wherever the enemies of the man ; .his name therefore is not
thing like the elevated diction of a sea we are, in a great measure, indebted to the soned 'diplomatist; it was more likely press, who exposed the hollowness of the written by a lawyer's clerk, and I can scheme. By the exertions of the press, smell in it the crooked mind of the Minister and the help of that grand old man, whose who presides over the Post Office. There absence from the House we all so deeply is another thing I should like to bring deplore, we were saved from being placed under the notice of the House. I refer in the hands of a federal council which, to the conduct of the Government with amongst other things, was to have the regard to the convention. What I am priYilege of dealing with the tariffs of the now saying will be much better said by colony. I represent a constituency that is men who are more able to say it, and who supposed to be the stronghold of protec will have more influence ; but it will not tion ; but, with all respect to the bon. be any more true. We are trying the member for Yass Plains, whose sincerity Government on the most serious charges, and intelligence no man respects more and we are supposed to be appealing to than I do, I proclaim myself a free Parliament for a decision. Where are the trader, and if the question goes to the jurymen 1 What would the Chief Justice ballot-box and I· fall, I am prepared to say if after a jury of twelve had been retire from the contest still a free trader. empannelled to try a case one after the I see this colony progressing by leaps and other were to pop out of court and come bounds ; I see it going steadily on and in again and take up the case when prospering. I confess that I have not had they chose ! I do not say that members thA time or the opportunity to go into a should always remain in the House, or question which taxed to the utmost the that they should be compelled to endure gigantic intellects of such men as John all that I and others choose to address to Stuart l\'Iill and Adam Smith, who even them ; but I say they have no right to be then were only able to express an opinion. in Parliament unless they are prepared in I know there are men who, after twenty a serious case like this to weigh and con four hours' consideration, can settle the sider the charges well before giving a de question definitely, but I am not going in cision. This Government joined with those with them ; I am a free trader. I do not of all the other .Australasian colonies in forget when England was on the brink of the convention that was held in Sydney. ruin, when thousands and tens of thou The Colonial Treasurer on that occasion sands of her people were starving, when moved the following resolution, which was protection was a law for the wealthy, when amended and carried :- the people of England were ground down, That the governments represented at the con when they had to pay extra for the ragged vention pledge themselves to invite the legisla clothes they wore and the poor victuals tures of their respective colonies to pass addresses that went into their half-empty stomachs to her :Majesty praying that she may be pleased to cause a measure to be submitted to the Im in order to subsidise the wealthy, when perial Parliament for the purpose of constituting • that great and glorious man, Richard Cob a federal council upon the basis of the draft bill den, after he had mourned for the loss of adopted by this convention. his wife, who was most dear to him, joined • The Government pledged themselves and with that equally exalted spirit, John this country, and they had only to make Bright, in the work of revoking the laws the proposal to the legislature to obtain that made the loaf dear to their poor its. adoption. W f': find now, from their fellow-creatures. And we are asked in own testimony, that if they had done so this colony to renew the laws that were they would have been inviting us to destroy abolished in England. I say that I will the liberties and the rights of this legisla not sanction such a thing. I should be ture. ·when this matter was submitted to glad to hear the Government give some the House by the Government they con explanation of how they came to play sidered it of so much importance that they with these sharp-edged tools, which they actually kept a special train waiting to did not know how to handle. They went take bon. members to the l\ielbourne Cup into the convention, and escaped by a as soon as the debate was concluded. fluke .. I should be glad. to see .Australasia However, we escaped the calamity which federate, but let the union take place on a threatened us, and for this escape I believe basis consistent with the retention of our [Mr. O'Connor.
,. Governo1·' s Speech : [16 SEPT., 1885.] 239
liberty and freedom, and in a ma:tmer that hon. member for East l\1acquarie (Mr. S. will enable the people to get the full value Smith) made charges the other· night for their labour, instead of all the wealth against the Minister for Works which going to make two or three grand seig must be answered. They are either true niors-dwarfing the majority of the people or false. If they are true, the Minister for the self-gratification of the few. I for vVorks must leave his place; if they would like to ask the attention of the are false, the hon. member for East Mac Minister for Works for a few moments to quarie has no right to be any longer in what I consider a very grave matter. A this House. The charges made involve charge was made last night by the hon. not £25, or even £25,00fJ, but they involve member for ·west Sydney (Mr. Abigail) the degradation of one of the highest against the bon. member for Northumber offices of the state. ·In the speech which land (Mr. Melville) for having taken £25 the hon. member for East Macquarie for doing certain work. I have known made on that occasion he received only the hon. member for Northumberland ever a couple of lines from the press. I since his boyhood, and I must say I never am sorry for the press for doing that. knew anything dishonorable of him. I Their mission is so great and so noble have known him to "be poor, and to be that they ought to be above anything honest all his life. He has been a man like>. that. No paper should support ·.who has always used what power he had a minister who could be guilty of the for the good of the people. But 1 have no charges made against the Minister for hesitation in saying that I feel angry that vVorks. Now, who is the accused He the bon. member should have degraded is a member of this House, sent here the himself and this House. If a man is same as any other member to represent a too poor to be independent, he cannot constituency, and having the same right afford to come here. If he appeals to the to be here as we all have. What was his people, and they wish to send him here, career before he came here 1 There ai·e let them pay him until the time arrives men in this House who have known the when we shall adopt the system of pay bon. member from his childhood. I can ment of members. The law is that a man appeal in support of this to the hon. mem must come here and be indepfmdent, and ber for Redfern (Mr. Sutherland) and to we must uphold the dignity of Parliament. the bon. member for Boorowa. He was I regret from the bottom of my soul the in the Government sen·ice for years, and position in which the hon. member for occupied a high position and one of trust. Northumberland is placed. There is He left that position of his own free will, nothing on the face of it very criminal ; taking with him the highest credentials it is mean, and I am angry that any mem for character and ability. He is now ber of this House should do it. I would carrying on a lucrative business in this be glad to give him £25, poor as I am, if city. He is as eloquent in speech he were hard up, to prevent him from , as the Premier; he is as courteous in doing it. Let him go into business, but let his demeanour as the Colonial Trea him not meet any man in the street, and surer ; he is as graceful and as courteous say, " I will do certain work for you for as my hon. friend the Minister for £5, £10, or £15." Mines; and, in my estimation, he almost 1\ir. GARRARD : May I ask, Mr. Speaker, realises politically in. competition with the whether the hon. member is in order in Minister for Lands, St. Paul's definition referring to this matter, which is now of being "All things to all men." under the consideration of a select com He is the most inoffensive man in the mittee 1 House. He. is sincere, and he is honest. Mr. SPEAKER : I think the bon. mem There is no member of the Government .. ber will see that it is desirable that he more honest than he ; there is not one of should not comment in the House upon them, according to !DY experience, more this matter until the select committee sincere. Then, why should a charge of has reported. such gravity as that he made be treated Mr. O'CONNOR : If the bon. member with such indifference 1 I say that we had waited for a moment he would have have a right to look after the Minister for seen that I was leading up to this : The Works, if he does not look after himself, Fifth night. 240 Governor's Speech: ASSEMBLY.] Address in Reply. for ministers may come and ministers may corrupt thing, and carries its own con go, but their offices go on for ever. They demnation on the face of it. It is not are part and parcel of the Government of by means of that kind that the Hudson the country, and we are bound to see that Brothers company is to thrive here. I no man makes a reckless charge against have heard :M:r. Henry Hudson on many any one of them. I share the opinion occasions say that his great business lmd expressed by the hon. member for Camden been built up without protection, and that last night, that no man can remain in he did not want it. But they have a pro public life without having charges brought tection that is not registered in acts of against him. There are sonte men so Parliament, but that is registered in the vicious and unscrupulous that they will room of a corrupt minister. What was pay heed to the idle tattle they hear at the the contract for? It was to bring water corners of the streets, and without any into the city of Sydney. And what was inquiry come to this House and prefer a the excuse? That the case was one of charge against a member under cover of a emergency ; that owing to the absence of motion of adjournment. Such men· de rain the city was threatened with a water serve the contempt of every right-minded famine. But the emergency was not so man in the community, and a charge great as to preclLtde ·the Government from coming fro~ such a source cannot hurt calling for tenders for the work. I do not anybody. But in this case the charge has know whether it will be considered rele:•· been made •by a member of this House; vant to the question before the House, but"" not a great debater, not an orator ; nature I may mention that I have just had placed never intended him to be that, but she has in my hands a telegram stating that Mr. given him a higher quality-an honest Henson has been elected for Canterburj and a conscientious heart. He is a man by a majority of nearly two to one over of the gentlest instincts, who would not l\Ir. Hudson. I regard the result of that say a wrong word about any one or election as an outspoken and determined harm anybody. He comes here in his declaration on the part of the people of character as a representative of the Canterbury that this Government must people, and makes a charge against the come to an end. I do not wish to say any Minister for vVorks, that he gave a contract thing disrespectful of the gentleman who to Hudson Brothers without competition. has been returned, for he was always a I think that we ought to have some ex very quiet and inoffensive member, though planation with regard to that transaction. his voice was rarely ever heard in the I know the Messrs. "Hudson well, and House; but still the electors of Canter have known them intimately for twenty bury were ready to grasp at him, and to five years. They are three brothers, and use him as an instrument to protest I suppose that for industry, honesty, against the sins of the Government. What, and ability in their own line they are in the name of heaven could have in" not to be surpassed in the colony. By spired 1, iOO or 1,800 people to go out of their enterprise and ability they have built their way to-clay to vote at this election'? up a business that is a credit to the colony. Was it the past services of Mr. Henson, Their name is often dragged before this or his marvellous power of influencing a House, and most unjustly so; but never multitude? more so than now. Though the name of 1\:Ir. Lusco:uBE : To return a protec Hudson Brothers still survives, the firm tionist ! of the three brothers no ·longer exists, but Mr. O'CONNOR: No; it was a practi has merged into a company, of which cal expression of a determination on the several influential men are members; and part of the people to put a stop to pro it is this company, and not the Messrs. tection as far as Hudson Brothers are Hudson individually that receives the concerned. benefit of the Government subsidy. vVhat Mr. LuscmiBE: Mr. Hudson said he. right bad this company to receive a was a free-trader ; Mr. Henson said he contract from the Government without would go with us! competition, to the exclusion of other Mr. O'CONNOR: However bon. persons of energy and enterprise engaged members may differ upon other matters in the same trade 1 That in itself was a I am sure that they will all agre~ in this, [Mr. O'Connor. Governo1·' s Speech : [16 SEPT., 1885.] Address in Reply. 241
that the high offices of state should be kept tent 1 Now we find that the cars the hon. pure. Well, grave charges have been member bought are next door to 'useless, made here against the Minister for vVorks, and in my estimation it would b~~etter to and in the interest of pure government, burn them all, because the men say that in the interest of the honor of this House, they are not safe; and the loss of £45,000 and in the interest of the people of this would be a small matter compared with country I demand that the charge shall be the life of the poorest and humblest man answered satisfactorily, or else that the in this community. I want a satisfactory penalty shall be paid. Either the charge answer to that charge. I find also that a must be refuted or the Minister for \Vorks man who is a particular friend of the must vacate his office. Now to mo per Government, who has been a kind of wood sonally this is a most unpalatable duty, for and water· joey to them ever since they the Minister for vVorks has always been came into office-Mr. .Augustus Morris my friend; but as a representative of the has received as the reward of his subser people I demand that the charges should viency a contract amounting to thou be answered, and no one will be more de sands of pounds without competition. lighted than I shall be to see them .A damning clutrge has also been made answered and refuted most satisfactorily. against the Minister for Lands, which is .A man in the transaction of his private alr·eady ringing iD; the ears of the people ..business will exercise the greatest scrutiny of this country from the Murray to the and the best judgment he possesses, and Tweed. The charge has been made by ho ought not to do less when he is trans .men of prominence in the public life of acting business for other people, even in the country, who have pledged their repu the capacity of a trustee for private indi tations to the truth of it, and yet it viduals, much more so when he is acting remains uncontradicted. And yet this is as a trustee for t.he public, and occupies the Government which threw overboard a high and distinguished public office. an honorable and able man-the hon. .Another charge is that a tender was given member for East Sydney, Mr. Copel!l-nd to an employee in the service of Wright, because on a certain festive occasion he took Heaton, and Company, and that the trucks a glass of wine too much. That is a sin of and machinery of that establishment were which many a good man has been guilty, used in performing the contract until it and it was committed in his case, not in was transferred to another person. T~at Parliament, or while administering the is also a charge that requires answering, affairs of the country, but on a Saturday and which must be answered. Enormous evening, when his time was his own. sums of money, amounting to nearly half There is a member of the Government who a million sterling, have been expended by is connected with a firm where Augnstus -'• ministers on work for which there was Morris has been doing business and he no competition. I should like to know by acting as an agent. I say are these things what right or what authority the Minister · to continue 1 Is this Parliament so life for vVorks agreed to pay Mr. Carson Woods, less 1 Is the press of this colony so a gentleman from America whom nobody corrupt 1 .Are the people so indifferent to knows, or knows very little of, the their own rights and privileges that they sum of £45,000 for a number of dump will suffer themselves to be robbed~ But cars. And under what. circumstances that is a small thing in comparison to was that contract entered into 1 It was having our institutions degraded. I entered into in opposition to the J•eports would not care if it were merely a of the highly paid officers of the ·works matter of money, but we should not permit Department. Now I maintain that if the high offices of state to be degraded. a minister of the Crown finds it necessary They ought to be pure. They ought to be to act contrary to the recommendations of the reward of honorable and honest service highly paid officers in his department, in public life. They ought to be positions who are· supposed to know their business, to which men would gladly consecrate these have no right to remain in their their lives to win distinction, not places positions : for what is the use of keeping contaminated with dishonor. I say that men in the public service, and paying the Ministry must come forward and them high salaries, if they are incompe- answer these charges or this Parliament Q Fifth nigM
• • 242 Governor's Speech: [ ASSEl\'IBLY. J .Add1·ess in Reply. will be branded as the most cowardly and the man in Yorkshire, who was picked up degraded Parliament that ever. sat. If by accident and made a mayor. When his they answer these charges successfully I mother spoke to him and said she did not shall rejoice for the honor and dignity know him, he said, " Why, mother, I do of Parliament; but the charges must not know myself." This is the outcome be answered and men must not sit of a bad state of things. The whole stolidly, they must not become deaf for system of parliamentary gove::nment is out the occasion. I look around and see men of joint. vVe should have men in office here who are honorable in their own for their ability, not merely men who are avocations, men who have obtained com respectable outside. Men ought to be mercial distinctiop., men who would feel a selected for their ability and their rec word of suspicion as a wound and shrink titude. If the Ministry were categorically back from it : yet they come to Parlia examined, omitting the brilliant AttornE>y ment and lend the lustre of their name General, they could not spell a b ab in to the Government and almost smother politics. They have failed in everything. each other by crowding on the Treasury They have been kept in office by a chain of benches to support the Government in circumstances perhaps unprecedented in every vile act which they do. Church , any country. They could not go wrong. and state are equally the outcome of the If they fell down some one from the Op Almighty, and the state is the more ancient position would pick them up. They have. institution of the two. But what do we introduced bills, which when placed upon find in regard to the church~ I care not the table were found to be illegal in form. what church you take, men are not selected They have been asked by the whole people for high office in it merely for intellectual to introduce the Public Health Bill, and power, though they may have the learning after a recess of unprecedented length the of Greece and Rome, though they may be Attorney-General is obliged to take a fort able to translate Homer, and all the poets night to consider how he will deal with it. of antiquity, they must have the ·super There is incapacity shown throughout the structure of honesty, they must be pure Government. The Minister for Mines is and spotless, not only in the pulpit, but no doubt an able man, but he is in a bad out of it. ·why, then, should we not here team, anCI the strongest link in a chain is no in the sacred place of the state have pure better than the others. I woulcl make one men to make the laws~ I say that men not to leave the floor of the House-not must be kept pure here. as well as outside. to allow an adjournment to take place The Government are only eight or nine, until the ministers come and answer these and they could not dishonor Parliament if charges. I demand that they shall be they had not men behind them to support answered, and not only answered, but them. I say now definitely on the eve of refuted. If they are not, let us have a general election that it is not creditable. the resignation of the Ministry. I say to the country to have men sent here who that if the matter which was alluded to will surrender their consciences without last night is an offence in a private mem inquiring as to what they are doing. We ber, that hurts the individual, and after have men here who would not spend £5 all is a slight.thing in comparison with the in their private life without obtaining £6 misdoings of a ministry. Members of the for it. How is it that they display the Government and members of the Opposi eagle's penetration and vigilance in their tion have a joint duty to perform in main own business, and yet are so blind here ~ taining the honor and dignity of Parlia This must come to an end. It may not be ment, because the members of a govern my lot to see it, but the time must come. ment to-day will be the Opposition to I care not what may be the criticisms on morrow, and vice versa. If t.he Government my S}:>eech, because I am speaking for are so an..·dons to eject a man who has the people, and for purity and for ability taken a glass too much, what !}lust be done in the high offices of the state. I am not with a man who levies black-mail on a man surprised at the incapacity of the Govern hundreds of miles away from Sydney~ ment. They do not understand the a b c When Philip of Macedon went to reduce of politics, They have had no training; a certain city he failed ; he therefore con they must have been as much surprised as sulted the oracle, and he was told to fight [Mr. O'Oo'TI!nor. Gove1·nor' s Speech : [16 SEPT., 1885.] A.dd1·ess in Reply. 243
with golden darts. He did so, and the city House in order to call attention to the capitulated. At the Lands Office they deficiencies of the other Chamber, and the are as deaf and dumb as the inmates of necessity for selecting some eight or a that institution on the Newtown Road; dozen gentlemen who would compensate but the use of £50 in gold will enable for the drooping physical weakness and anything to be done there. I want to decrepitude of existing members. The have that explained and accounted for condition of that Chmnber then loudly satisfactorily, and I want the Minister for called for recruiting with new blood aml Works to answer these charges, and to new intellect. I do not find fault with vindicate the honor of a high office of the gentleman there ; most of them are state. There is another subject I should· old, certainly, but age is a usual penalty of like to say a few words uponJ and that is nature. But I called on the GoYernment, the constitution of the Upper House. I seeing the incapacity in that House, the know that there are many gentlemen of fading away of physical power and intel vigorous minds in this House, and many lectual strength, to throw some fresh energy thoughtful men out of it, who consider an among the.m. If we cannot by act extin Upper House unneceRsary. They believe guish that House we might relieve it, and in a Parliament consisting of one chamber. enable some of its old gentlemen to sit at Well, I differ from them. I am in favour home to keep their toes warm. The Govern of two chambers, particularly when I come ment did not move till the other day, to reflect upon the great country from when they appointed eight members. \Ve which we have sprung. When I remember have all heard the so,ying tho,t there is no the magnificent history which that country good in o,dding to the tail ; it is the head presents, and remember that its institutions which wants strengthening. \Vhat qualifi have been adorned by some of the grandest cations have any of these men shown for intelleqts that ever illuminated humanity public business of a political character~ -when I see the services that the Upper JHr. Mackellar has been selected. He House in England has rendered, I say that may be a great scholar, o, good physician, the Parliament of this country, as our a good small-pox doctor, a rintl of Galen Constitution exists, requires an upper if you like; he may even have a profoun 244 Gove1·nor's Speech: [ ASSEl\'IBLY.] Add1·ess in Reply. front the Attorney-General or 11dr. Darley, and better times men bowed reveren and not be terrified into acquiescence in tially at the sacred hearth of the Con everything they lay down. The Attorney stitution ; but, in this enlightened age, General has adorned the Council by his we have lived to see the hanus of bar IJrilliant intellect and ability, and his unri barians with the skill of Vandals, tear • valled power of dealing with great ques ing down the sacred garments of tho tions. But we require that the Upper Constitution. The Government have come House shall be something more t-han a to that condition that they are like leeches registry office for him; there must be a full of blood, dozy and stolid in their change in the interests of the public.• \Ve selfishness and iniquity, and they ap- must have other than pliant men who . pear to be so para~ysed that they cannot can only bow and say, "Yes, Sit· James." answer the charges brought against theri1. \Ve must have nH~n capable of judging the They maintain a forced and dignified proposals of ministers, and of the grounds silence in the faco of the charges which urged in support of them. This is necessary, hang like a weight around their neck. for all legislation of the country has to be This must come to an end. Those who revised by these men. This is the strong as a Government commit these crimes ground why the Upper Chamber should not · must die, and in one portion of this be composed of men of incapacity. I can conn try the people have to-day at the ballot understand the abolition of this House, box spoken out a note of warning. A but I cannot understand those who believe candidate for Canterbury, who is simply in the necessity for its existence, and yet a respectable man, a decent citizen, has would have it a select nnd obsequious been .chosen in preference to the nominee chamber, exposed by its weakness to the of the Government., and thereby the people contempt and ridicule of the people. The say to the ministers' candidate, "Although .Daily Telegraph spoke of it as less than we may respect you we reject you, in order mediocrity. It has sunk into contempt, to show our contempt for the Government." and are :we going to allow any Government That is what the people said to·day at to perpetrate a gross wrong on a branch Canterbury. If the House will not pro of the legislature with such· enormous claim emphatically the infamy of the Go power-a chambet·, a position in which vernment, and inflict the penalty they de might be the aim ami. object of great men serve, the people will rise in their might, men distinguished in public life 1 Is it to be and bring about the ignominious expulsion 'disgraced by the presence of a man who is of them and their supporters ; they will l'Aivardecl when he ought to Le pnnishecl1 whip them out as they ought to have been Bnt the Government attempt to stifle all whipped out long ago. One of the objec inquiry. How lamentable is it that you tionable things resorted to by the Govern may deny the people a bridge, or a road, or ment was referred to last night most a schoolhouse, that they never forgive it, pathetically and beautifully by the hon. that they carry it in their bosJms until there and learned member for Tumut, when he is an opportunity for imparting their dis said they set afloat the suggestion, " Don't sa.ti~factitm by their votes, and yet do not you know that if you vote for the amend resent the degradation of Parliament, which ment you will bring back Parkes." Well, represents their freedom, where only their if the a,mendment should be carried, and votes a.re efl:ective, where their opinions Sir Henry Parkes again becomes Premier are expressed, and are expected to have of the country, I take the consequences weight 1 They tolerate wrong to parlia of my vote. Am I to be deterred by such mentary institutions, and so it comes to be a prospect from giving a conscientious perpetrated with impunity. A govern vote~ Sir Henry Parkes cannot be Pre ment can commit no greater crime than to mier without colleagues, and without' sup violate the Constitution of the country, porters in J;'arliament. Then the country and reckon on an overwhelming majority will determine whether he is to be· in to condone it. How can it be condoned 1 power .or not. The men who have warned The Constitution of the country is like the me that if I give this vote I shall be help sonl in a man's body, that which the ing to bring Sir Henry Parkes back to Almighty h_as selected as the medium for power are the 'men who have crossed this registering his divine decrees. In purer Chamber over and over again-who, when [ilh. O'Connor. Governor's Speech : [16 SEPT., 1885.] Address in Re]Jly. 245 Sir Henry Parkes was in power, supported another lot of devils of a worse character. him and said, " What! are you going to I think the parable applies to Yarious go bring those fellows over here 7" I con Yernments. The Parkes Government were fronted Sir Henry Parkes when his Govern accused of all sorts of corruption, and ment had a majority of 67 to 3, as the finally they were accused of a gross act of bon. member for Boorowa very well knows. corruption with reference to a proposal to The men who vindicated every doubtful construct a bridge to the North Shore. transaction of Sir Henry Parkes' life are On that ground they were principally put the men who ratted to the Stuart GoYern out of office. Having got riel of that lot ment. I detest and loathe them from my of devils, it seems now that we have a heart ; I have not for them the respect I worse lot of devils in their place-that have for the commonest larrikin in the they are far more corrupt than their pre street. They would keep any one in power decessors; at any rat~ this is the allegation who kept them in their position as mem 'Yhich is made. If this sort of thing is to bers ; they would support Osman Digna continue, we shall· have to do without a or the Mahdi, if alive, as long as they government altogether before long. I do could get the loaves and fishes. I will not know that J should have spoken to give my vote irrespective of who may night had it not been for the clmrges next come into power, and I vote for the which have been made against the Minis amendment in the interests of parliamen ter for Lands, or rather against his sons tary goYernment, ::mel in vindication of the in-law. When the hon. member for honor and dignity of this House. I give Bathurst first mentioned the matter he roy vote as tending to remove from office exonerated the Minister from the charges. nien who have exhibited downright in The hon. member for :M:olong has con·obo capacity and cowardice-cowardice for rated the statements made ~by the hon. expelling Mr. Copeland and for keeping member for Bathurst. The hon. member in their ranks men who have been ch'arged for l\Iolong says that he failed to get the with the highest crimes, which charges have Minister to take action in the case of cer not been rebutted. On all these grounds tain selectors in his district, and that when I vote against them ; and I implore the the cases were put in the hands of the sons Parliament--for the honor and dignity in-law of the Minister they were dealt with. · of our sacred Constitution, this grand and Since the Land Act came into force anum nohle institution which it cost so many ber of my constituents and others who have years to obtain-an institution fashioned had their selections forfeited under the and founded on a noble model, and which commissioners, haYe applied to me to get is the realisation of freedom in its highest those forfeitures set aside or to get a re form-to keep it as pure as our best efforts hearing before the local land board. In for that purpose will enable us so to do. every fair case which I 'put before the Then when we are mouldering in clay we Minister he ordered a rehearing before the may hope to be remembered with respect local land board. In one case a. man and gratitude, and not with execration by whose selection on 2\Iessrs. '\Vhite's Bando our successors. Run had been forfeited, came to me and Mr. McELHONE: I should not have asked me to try to get the forfeiture set taken part in this debate if it were not for aside, or, failing that, a rehearing before the length of time over which it has ex the l:md board. I advised him to employ tended, and for various circumstances Mr. Martin, a son-in-law of the l:tlinister, which have transpired in the course of it. as, I said, he might have some influence. The hon. member who has just resumed Acting on my advice the selector employed his seat has made unlimited charges Mr. Martin, but I was told afterwards against the members of the Government. that the Minister refused to accede to the It is a common thing nowadays to accuse request which was made to him, as he did every government of corruption. It puts me not think there were sufficient grounds to in mind of the parable in the Bible about set the forfeiture aside. I mention these the sick mftn who was possessed with a circumstances in justice to the lVIinister for number of devils. The,Lord went to liim Lands. All the men in this House or in to cast out the devils, and did so ; but the the country could not make me believe sick man was afterwards possessed with that the Minister for Lands is capable of Fifth nigld. 246 Gove?·nor' s Speech : [ASSEMBLY.] Address in Reply. doing a dishonest act. If the hon. gentle ment will have a large majority, and will man is guilty of any fault it is that l1e is keep it as long as this Parliament lasts. too civil Rnd too honest. I have often I venture to say that the Government thought that when we have been joking made a grave mistake in calling the House in the smoking room and elsewhere that together at all. I say with all due respect the hon. gentleman has been guilty of to those who are supposed to know more "putting on side." I have as intimate a about these matters than I do that the knowledge of the bon. member as !tny one in proper course for the Government to have the House, and although I have sometimes taken would have been to have dissolved said hard things about him I have always the Parliament. If they had done so, and believed him to be, and have always given the country had returned them with a him the credit of being as honorable and mn:jority of supporters, they could have l10nest a man as ever entered these walls, occupied the Treasury benches for some or is to be found outside of thPm. I can time to come. The bulk of the speeches not find words strong enough to condemn which have been made in the course of his sons-in-law j they ought to be scourged this debate are simply electioneering with rods of iron out of the country_; I speeches, and they will be repeated on the hope that the bon. gentleman will give stump. I venture to say that the charges instructions to the officials of the depart which have been made" against my hon. ment to refuse to receive any applications friend the l\'Iinister for Lands, who is from them. They have brought disgrace thoroughly innocent of any wrong-doing, on,the Minister. I am sure that every will go throughout the length and breadth member on the Opposition side of the of the land, and those who do not know Honse will agree with me that the Minis him will believe that he has been guilty ter is as honest a man as e-ver occupied a offavouring his sons-in-law. The charges public position. The statements made by made against the Minister for Works will the hon. member for Bathurst, and-the also be hurled at him on the hustings, and hon. member for Molong, put it beyond very likely will be the cause of his losing doubt that his sons-in-law have abused his seat. This might have been avoided, the positions they occupy, not as land and the time of the country would have agents, but as relatives of the Minister for been saved, if a dissolution had taken Lands, to rob the people of their money. place, and the whole of the elections were Instead of a fee of £50 I say that £2 2s. got over by the beginning of October. I would be quite sufficient for the wor~ do not care two straws who may be in done. I am sure that the majority of the power. I have always found that parties land agents would do it for that ari10unt. for whom I have clone my utmost to It is to be presumed that the only ground get them into power have giv::m me the 11pou which MP.ssrs. Cumming and Martin dirty end of the stick. It is a matter of demanded such a high fee is the assump indifference to me who may be in power, tion that because they are related to the because it is my intention, unless the bon. l\Iinister they could bring a certain member for Northumberland (Mr. l\iel amount of infl.uence to bear. I firmly ville) carries a motion to expel me before believe that if the hon. member for the Parliament expires, to take a back seat l\iolong had put the cases to which he re-· in the future. I shall look on quietly ferrecl fairly before the Minister, he would while hon. members are fighting for office.' have been just as successful as the Minis An RoN. MEMBER : You ought to go to ter's sons-in-law were. They are not the the Upper House ! only persons who demand high fees. \Ve Mr. McELHONE: That would be too . know that the hon. member for ca~den quiet for me. I. repeat that the only advertises that for a fee of fifty guineas he thing which would induce me to come will undertaken6tto take a retainer against back would be the circumstance of the the person who pays the fee. The hon. mem bon. member for Northumberland pro ber understands the law like abc by reason posing a motion to expel me, and the of his large experience in land matters, House agreeing to it; in that case I and he sets a high value on his services. should feel bound in the interests of those AI; regards this discussion, I think that it who are nearest and dearest to me to fight is a waste of time. No doubt the Govern- to the bitter end to get into the House [ Mr. McElhone. Governor's Speech: '(16 SEPT., 1885.] Address in Reply. 247 again, and t have no doubt that I should to spend large sums of money in this direc succeed. I believe that we shall be acting tion at a time when, owing to the dry in an unconstitutional manner if we pass season, every interest is in a languishing anv estimates this session. vVe were condition. el;cteci for three years, and we have passed Mr. 0'1\'IARA: You do not believe in the estimates for three years, and we have no doctor's creed ! right to vote money which will be expended Mr. McELHONE: It is like the during the existence of another parliament. lawyer's creed. A lawyer will never let It is laid down by Mr. Alpheus Todd, you go while you have any money to give who is recognised as a good authority, him. There are, I know, a few medical men that it is an unconstitutional thing for an here who would be a credit to any city in · expiring parliament to vote supplies for the world, and we also have some doctors the next parliament. The "late Govern who would be a disgrace to any profession. ment dissolved thA House at the end of One of these men has been nominated to the year, and the new House met in the a seat in the Upper House. He was a early part of the next year. This Parlia member of this House for one Parliament, ment, after having had a long session of and he distinguished himself by moving a over twelve months, had a short session in resolution requiring the Government to which estimates were passed, and a promise send home every week a telegram inquiring was made by the Government that we the price of butter. That was the only should be called together again in May to thing 'the hon. member did while he was a . deal with a number of important measures. member of this House. How dicl he get I ask hon. members what possible chance into the Parliament at all1 The Hon. there is of passing a local government bill James White went to England, and he put or a public health bill this session 1 It in Mr. Bell to warm his seat while he was will be a very unwise thing for ·the Go away. When he returned, Mr. Bell re vernment to attempt to rush these bills signed; but the people of The Upper through. I recollect that the City of Hunter, in order to show their contempt Sydney Improvement Act was passed for any person who would endeavour through in a hurry, and I say that it has to make a nest egg of the seat, put up this been a great curse to many property Dr. Creed, quite an unknown man, and owners in the city. Buildings which are returned him. I quite approve of Dr. really more substantial than the style of Mackellar's appointment to the Upper buildings which are being erected now are House. As a public officer he has dis being pulled clown every day because they charged his duties ably and efficiently. are a little bit old and unsightly. vVe must He is not in the habit of sticking to you be careful in dealing with the health bill, like a horse-leech until he has drawn all under which a lot of new appointments the blood away_ from you. Then with re will have to be made. At whose instiga ference to the appointment of the hon. tion has the measure been brought for member for Central Cumberland, Mr. ward 1 A lot of quacks, imbeciles, and Lackey, he is a gentleman who made lunatics. I do not apply this to all the few, if any,·enemies in this House. I do doctors, because I believe that we have a not think he should have taken his ap few of them who are a credit to their pointment to the Upper House from the profession, but I believe that many of present Government; but there is nothing our medical men are the greatest lot of absolutely wrong in his so doing. As to arrant humbugs that God ever created. the appointment of Mr. Henry Moses, he You can get them into your house if you certainly is not a gentleman who has much have money ; but once they are there you to say, so far as we had an opportunity of will never get them out while you have a judging while he occupied a seat in this shilling to give them. I refer to horse House; but he is as shrewd a man as any leeches and blood-suckers like Dr. Bedford, one of us. vVhile in this House he gave who rant and spout at medical meetings his support to any government who would endeavouring to get a board· of health carry on the government of the colony established. Then we have Mr. Burton honestly. I have seen him supporting the Bradley, who has a mania about this sort Government of Sir Henry Parkes, and I of thing, trying to induce the Govemment believe that he quite as conscientiously Fifth night. 24.8 Governor's Speech : [ASSEMBLY.] Address in Reply. supported the present Government. I these circumstances you take half of it believe there is no man in the country who away from the unfortunate man, I do not. is more honest in his principles than see how you are going to benefit him. If Captain Charles. He bas not very much to I had the opportunity I would vote against say ; but, like most north of Ireland men, it to-morrow. lVIy hon. friend proposed, in be has sound common-sense. As to Dr. the first instance, to do away with pre Creed, he has shown himself in this House leases. As he very well knows, I did not to be utterly useless as a member of Par approve of that. Then as regards the liamP.nt, and something far worse than provision for fencing in six months. I that could be said of him. I will not say did not like that ; it was manifestly anything about it now ; but I think the absurd; an amendment extended the time least that we could expect of men who to two years l believe. That is quite are appointed to make laws for the country short enough, having regard to the position is that they should possess a good moral of the selector. Talking of the selectors character. Now a few words about the reminds me of the conduct of a certain Land Act--some very extraor!finary inspector of conditional purchases under things have taken place with reference to th~ old act--as great a clog as ever lived that measure. The hon. member for West so far as the free selectors are concerned. I Sydney (Mr. O'Connor), who was going to refer to a Mr. Cropper, I believe he is re vote against the measure, turned round at lated to Sir Daniel Cooper. This man lost the last moment, and after making a long no opportunity of persecuting the bona speech against the measure announced, fide selector. He used to frame the most amid the greatest surprise, that he in dishonest reports in regard to their resi tended to vote for it. The hon. member dence, and for the dummies, on the other said to me, "I will vote for the second hand, he would do all that lay in his reading of the bill; but I will tear it to power. This man, for thes~ vile services, tatters on the third reading." One of the was· appointed to the office of chairman of strongest supporters of the Land Bill in a land board. I was told by the bon. the House was the hon. member for Yass member for Tamworth that this man not Plains. I was quite dumbfounded when, only made a false declaration himself in on reading the newspapers in England, I order to rob the public treasury, but that sa\v that he bad turned round and was he also induced his clerk and other mem speaking against the measure. bers of the board to make false declara l\ir. HEYDON : You spoke in favour of tions. The declaration was to the effect the bill on the night of its introduction ! that· he was travelling on a certain day, Mr. McELHONE : I did not know ·when, as a matter of fact, he was not what it was then. But the bon. member travelling; and the declaration was made fought for the bill almost all the way in order that the man who signed it might through, and at the last moment turned take travelling expenses to which he was round .and v_oted against it. I did not see not entitled. He was discovered in the the free selectors' programme, but I be fraud, and the Minister for Works, who lieve that almost all th,e provisions for was at that time acting for the :Minister which they in the first instance asked for Lands, suspended him. I believe the were included in the bill. For instance, man was also called upon to show cause there was fencing, the pre-leases, fixity why he should not be dismissed. But of tenure, the division of runs, and the what have the Government now done 1 division of the colony into three districts. They have made him an inspector of con But most of the men who made this re ditional purchases ; they have placed him quest knew about as much of what they in a position in which be has a thousand really wanted as a pig knows about his times more power to injure the bona fide father. It has been said that this bill is selector than he possessed as the chairman a squatter's bill. I do not believe it is. I of a land board. I want to know if there do not see how, if its pr9visions are fairly is any truth in this charge. If tl}e Minis and honestly administered, that such a ter says there is not, I will at once follow thing can be said of it. If a man's run is the example of the bon. member for mortgaged, if he is head over ears in debt, Bathurst, and admit that I have been mis if the run is overstocked, and if under informed. [Mr. McElhone. Governor's Speech : [16 SEPT., 1885.] Add1·ess in Reply. 249 :Mr. FARNELL: There was no declara- as little hesitation as Judas sold Christ. tion! • It is a disgrace to the Government that Mr. McELHONE : Then, I should like this man should be kept in this position. to know what there was. He is far more deserving of punishment Mr. FARNELL: False vouchers! than some unfortunate wretch who is hard Mr. McELHONE : Then, why did not up for a feed, and who knocks you down the Government prosecute him criminally~ and robs you. I was surprised to hear What influence has been brought to bear that the Minister had restored this thiev on the -Government to induce them to ing vagabond to his former position in the abandon the idea of prosecuting this man service. A certain amount of sympathy -this nephew of Sir Daniel Cooper's was expressed the other night with Sir this man who, if I am correctly informed, John Robertson in the illness which now had a large property at Lake George ~ confines him to his residence. I did as Why did the Government simply suspend much a.s any man to put him out of office this man~ It was their duty to prosecute a short time ago. I am one of those who him criminally quite irrespective of his believe that the hon. gentleman's land law position. The higher the position of the was a curse to the country, and I believe man in such a case the more need is there that it was so chiefly owing to the way in that he should be exposed and punished. which it was administered. But although Instead of doing that, they have given I entertain that opinion, I wish the hon. him a better opportunity to do wrong by gentleman were here to-night. I also making him an inspector of conditional wish that the Colonial Secretary were here purchases-by placing him in a position in good health. I believe that if ever in which he can to his heart's content three men destroyed their health in the exercise his rascality and cruelty to the service of the country, those three men injury of the bona fide selectors of this are Sir John Robertson, Sir Alexander colony. I was charged with lending money Stuart, and Mr. Dalley. I strongly ad to an unfortunate fellow-man-a broken vised the Colonial Secretary to look after clown selector,-ancl with getting him an the interests of his family, and not to appointment in order that I might get bother himself about politics. Now he back the lousy £100 which I had lent him. has broken down his constitution by Suppose it was true that I had secured the arduous toil. The same may be said of appointment for this man for the purpose Mr. Dalley, who has clone not only the of getting myself repaid the £100, is that work of his own department, but also one-half as bad as the act of the Govern that of the Colonial Secretary. There ment who found this man out in sending can be no doubt but that the health in false vouchers, and, instead of dismiss of Sir Alexander Stuart broke down in ing and punishing him, retained him in consequence of the close attention which the service, and made him an inspector of that hon. gentleman gave to his public conditional purchases 1 Let the hon. mem duties. Whether we agree with the Go ber for The Murray say which officer is .vernment or whether we do not, whether in a position in which he can do most we think they have done right or wrong, harm to the bona fide selector-the in we must admit that no body of men who spector of conditional purchaseH or the have held office in the Government of this chairman of a land board 1 country ever worked harder than they Mr. BARBOUR : The inspector. have worked. I haYe no doubt that the Mr. l\:lcELHONE : The poor selectors Land Bill introduced by the late Govern have been already degraded, harassed, and ment could have been made a fair bill worried to death by this vagabond in if certain amendments had been intro spector. How can you expect justice to duced. The old l<~w was damned by its be deme when such men are appointed to bad administration, and by the dishonesty these positions 1 If a man proves himself of officials, some of whom wet:e working dishonest when acting as the chairman of for the squatter, while others worked a land board, how can you expect him to for the free selector, and each class act honestly as an inspector of conditional was endeavouring to work the law to purchases 7 Has he not got his price 1 their own advantage. ;r voted against He will sell the unfortunate selector with this land law, and if the same law were Fifth night. .v 250 Governor's Speech : [.ASSEMBLY. J Address in Reply. brought in again to-morrow I would vote extent. The proposal of Sir John Hay against it again ; and I would vote was to confine the selections to agricultural against the Jaw as it is now, simply because areas; and after all our principal aim I do not believe in the division of the runs should be to encourage the people to go as it has· been carried out. But there are and cultivate the land. Another good some respects in which the present land thing the Government did in their Land act is an improvement on the act of Sir Act was to abolish at one fell swoop all John Robertson. One of its provisions I the swindling in connection with consoli declared myself to be in favour of before dated pre-leases. Sir John Robertson said I was elected over ten years ago. Before to me when he was in office, "You are right I came to this House I claimed for the about the swindling; come into my office free selectors the right to get their pre and tell me how to get over the trouble." leases with a fixitv of tenure-for ten I said, " I cannot. I did all I could as a years-with the right of purchase; so meml;ler of the House. If you know there that at the end of that period a free selec is a swindle, it is your duty to give the free tor might come in and say, "I will take selector what he is entitled to." I can give this up" andl1ave the same tenure as he a case in point, which occurred in the had for his free .~election. The present Upper Hunter district. The ~'[essrs. White Government in their Land .Act have given occupy 240,000 acres, which they obtained this to the free selector in a modified form. under pre-leases. How did they get it~ They have given him the right of lease for They took up all the water frontages in five years, and if he does not purchase it blocks of 640 acres. They then got a at the end of the five years l1e has the pre-lease for three times the area, going right of holding it for another five years back 4 miles. After a time they bought against all comers. If the act of Sir John the pre-lease giving them 4 miles back. Robertson had contained a provision of Theh they got a consolidated pre-lease, that sort it would have saved a great deal taking them back 12 miles altogether. of trouble and heart-burning. I agree also This area, with the 4 miles obtained with the fencing pro•isions of the act. at first, made 16 miles, while all they .A man cannot get the full ad,iantage from had a right to was a pre-lease -adjoin his land until he has put a fence up. No ing the last block. They got three times man knows better than the hon. member more land than they ought to have done. for Camden (~Ir. Garrett) the immense ':['his sort of thing was the curse of the amount of ill-feeling which was caused Robertson land law-it encouraged the under these circumstances. I am talking greed of the large holders. Thank God now of the grazing country ; on the coast the present act has done away with that ,\rhere there were no squatters there was evil. no one to fight with. The moment you Mr. GARRETT: That defect was not got into the grazing country where there part of the old act ! were large flocks of valuable sheep, the Mr. McELHONE: I am only showing free sfllector wanted to carry four or five how the act was worked. I£ it had been times as much stock as his "land could feed. fairly administered by the officials of the I have known a case in which a selector department, if the selectors and the squat with 1,240 acrfls of land, which could not ters had acted honestly and had been carry more than one sheep to 50 acres, content with their rights, we should never had 4,000 sheep, the fact being that the have had all the heart-burnings which sheep were running all over the country. attended the operation of the land law The selector thought that he was hardly of Sir John Robertson. It was because dealt with if his sheep were confinfld to his the rich man with money in his pocket own land. A fencing clause will pnt a could do what he liked in the Land Office stop to all this. It was proposed by Sir that these evils occurred ; and I venture John Hay years ago. If that and another to say that he can almost do it now if he amendment Sir John Hay proposed re is sufficiently unscrupulous, both with lating to agricultural areas had been regard to the eli vision of the runs and • adopted, there would not have been the everything else. What called my atten heart-burnings and the ill-will which, un tion first to the matter was that one of fortunately, have existed to so great an my constituents wrote to me stating that [Mr. ~McElhone. Gove1-no1·' s Speech : [16 SEPT., 1885.] Add1·ess in Reply. 251 he had selected some 9 or 10 miles up the thrown on the hands of the. Government, Upper Hunter on Messrs. White's run. and was bringing ~tbsolutely no rent at all. How it was that they held the land I That land, by the expenditure of millions could not imagine. I inquired and found of money-borrowed and otherwise-was that they had 12 miles of a pre-lease in made useful to the country, and more than one block. I took the trouble to pay one half the sheep of New South Wales was of the officials two guineas for a plan, and carried in the western district of the colony. I found that they possessed 240,000 acres And now what is the case ~ Half of the of country. They have lost the' whole of • runs which were made valuable by the that; it is now open for free selection. expenditure of money in the way I have Another good provision in the present described are now gone. It was a most Land Act, and one of which I was always unjust thing to do to the people of the in favour, is the 1·eservation of mineral western district to cut their runs in half, land. Hitherto people by paying only £2· because many of them, owing to the an acre have often been able to obtain drought, never had a chance of making possession of land worth £5 an acre, and anything out of the enormous expenditure in some cases of land which if worked they had incurred. I heard of an instance upon a royalty would have yielded the other day, when travelling in the train, as much as' £1,000 per acre. If our of a run half of which was thrown open mineral lands had been properly adminis for· selection. The owner told me that tered in years gone by we should have all of the resumed half had been taken up got enough revenue from that source alone in 10,000-acre blocks. A great part of to pay the interest on our n::ttional debt. the central district is not one bit better Now about this land law. What is the than the western district. Going north, use of ·holging up the land law to the from N arrabri to the Queensland border, people of the country~ We are fighting there is hardly a blade of grass, and the for the shadow when the substance is all stock there are mostly dead or in a dying gone. I am now speaking of the fact state. The central district has suffered that nearly all the cultivable land in as much or more than the western district the eastern district' went out of the pos from drought ; and even some parts of the session of the state years ago. I do not eastern district. I know myself of some. believe th~t unless you go upon a reserve stations with a total area of about 40,000 there is any part of New South Wales acres which had to be abandoned eight suitable for grazing crops where you could years ago, and where the only stock alive get 1,000 acres in one block where a man were the saddle horses. That was at could put a plough in the ground with any W arrah, and the adjoining runs of Breeza chance of obtaining a profitable return. and Walhollow. The whole of t;he sheep The central district suffers riearly as much had to be sent ofr or else they would from drought as the western district. I have died. I repeat, with regard to the proposed in this House seven years ago to Land Act, that we are ·fighting for the divide the colony into only two districts shadow when the substance is gone. Had eastern and western-and to keep the a proper land bill been brought in when whole of the present eastern district that the hon. member for Camden (Mr. Garrett) is fit for agriculture for the free selectors was in power in 18i5 a very great deal of alone, giving ,the squatters a twenty-one good would have been done. I know that years lease of the remainder. A great you cannot always dowha,t you like. I know wrong has been clone in subdividing the that· if the Minister for Lands had been western district, which, unlike the eastern allowed to draw a land bill himself we district, has no natural waters and creeks. should have had a very different meas~re. The land was useless until the squatters We can see the forces which were brought rented it, and produced water by sinking to bear upon the Government to make them wells, and ma.king clams, flnu improved alter the character of the Land Bill, and the land by fencing it, and· in other ways. how, towards the end, it became only a In 1870 and187l the whole of this part of squatters' bill. Some parts of t.he bill I the country was unoccupied. The people detest, particularly the part relating to the who had taken it up and paid rent for division of the runs. "'vVe· did not want years abandoned it altogether, and it was the eli vision. The Minister for w· orks Fifth night. .,,,.,...... ~....,..,....,--~,a;1~~~·\ '';"¥.'V'·.,.l.... ~~~~ ..... 4•'' ·• 252 Governm·' s Speech : [ASSEMBLY.] Address in Reply. knows as well as any man in this country for The Clarence (Mr. See) stated publicly that in nearly the whole of the western on the hustings that he would not vote for district stock are either dead or dying, and any government that would not gi>e him that there is not a single blade of grass in a railway to The Clarence. As long as I it. There is another thing I do not like in occupy a seat in this House, unless it can the, present Government, and that is their be shown that a railway will pay, I will extravagance. They are extravagant at a not vote for it. I would not vote for the time when every inch of the colony is pros • Grafton line. I can understand a railway trate. There is not a squatter who would from the Tweed to Grafton for the simple not be hopelessly insolvent to-morrow if reason that there is no harbour there to pressed by the banks. The banks dare enable the farmers to get their produce not press the squ'atters, because if they did away. The Tweed is one of the worst they 'vould have to go insolvent too. At a harbours in the colony. But I' cannot time when the colony was going headlong understand why a railway should be made to ruin, owing to a succession of dry from New England to Grafton. What is seasons, the Government proposed to borrow it for 1 ·To drain the heart's blood of the about fifteen or sixteen millions of money. northern railway. We have made a rail A large number of members at the back of way from Sydney to Tenterfield, whether the Government urged them on in this rightly or wrongly has yet to be proved, policy of extravagance. What for 1 and we expect that railway to pay. I ask Simply that the hon. member for The whether it is not a most suicidal thing to Clarence might get a railway over a construct a branch line to tap the heart's country that will never afford sufficient blood of the main line 1 vVe destroy the traffic to pay for the grease for the wheels. only chance of making the main line An Hox. :li1E:uBER : How about the pay by making a railway to the coast, Burrow a line 1 and so diverting the trade merely 1\:Ir. l\Ic E L H 0 N E: A railway to to please the hon. members who so con Burrowa might ·pay, because there is as sistently support the Government. But good soil in the district as in any part of if the GoYernment is corrupt, if hon. New South ·wales.. Then, again, there is members are corrupt for engaging in the the line to Tumut; and, by-the-bye, practice of log-rolling, I say that the speaking of Tumut, no doubt the people people out of doors are still more corrupt, of that place are rather annoyed because, because they compel members of Parlia instead of going to Tumberumba via ment to badger the Government and T\lmut, the line is to be taken to Tum force them to construct railways to every berumba from \Vagga. I£ it is carried body's door, whether they are likely to pay out the line between Tumberumba and or not. \Vagga will be a worse speculation than Mr. SEE: The people have to pay for the railway from Glen Innes to Grafton. them! Then there are my friends the bon. mem l\lr. l\IcELHONE: I say that the people bers for Eden (Mr. H. Clarke and Mr. are the most corrupt of all, because they Garvan). They want a railway clown to compel members to ask for railways that the coast. There is also the Badgery rail will never pay. Look at the Mudgee way. But I do not blame thP- Govern railway. I opposed that from first to last, ment so much as the hon. members behind and now it is admitted that it does not them, who force the Government to this pay 1 per cent.; the Railway Department policy. I believe they said to the Govern dare not run the trains at night. And ment, "If you do not give us these rail will any one•who knows the country be ways we will put you out of power, and tweell here ai_~d Illawarra say that the get somebody else who will." I do not Illawarra railway will pay 1 I say that it forget that one of the members for The will not pay for many a year to come. I Clarence (nfr. Purves) publicly stated in class the Grafton to Glen Innes railway his speech at that place that the present with the l\Iudgee and the lllawarra rail was the most corrupt government that ways. It will not pay either in this genera 'the colony had ever had, anJ that he tion or the next, because between Grafton would not vote for them. I think I am and Glen Innes, excepting on the table correct in saying that the other member land, there is not an acre of land fit for [Mr. .McElhone. -, ~ ~-·' I .-.., ·-~-- ":S :· •• "f . . Gove1·nor's Speech: [16 SEPT., 1885.] Address in Reply. 253 agriculture. The country through which they pay. vVe are told to look at America, the Tenterfield railway will pass is a great but in America there are 50,000,000 of deal worse; it grows nothing but five- people and the population increases at the corners, geebungs, and grass-tree scrub. , rate of 1,000,000 a year. The climate, Mr. SEE : vVhat about the Blue Moun- moreover, is fit for agriculture, and when tains ~ a rail way is made the people settle upon Mr. McELHONE: There is a great ex- the land and cultivate it. But this country tent of good country, and millions of sheep is for the most part a grazing country, and behind the Blue Mountains. I know a will never be anything else than a member of this House-the hon. member squatters' paradise, unless God Almighty for Monaro, Mr. Badgery-who went up alters the natural conditions and gives us to Grafton to burst his bingie. I be- three or four times as much rain as we lieve that he voted for the railway from get now. The hon. member for Grafton Grafton to Glen Innes. I saw. him when interrupted me a little while ago by saying he ca.me back, looking sunburnt and rosy, that the people have to pay for the rail and he told me that he had been up to ways. Quite true; and I will remind Grafton to have a look at the country, the hon. member of one instance in and added, "Good God, it will never pay which the people have had to pay very to make a rail way there." This bon. mem- dearly for railways. I refer to New ber wanted a railway to Braidwood, and Zealand. There, under the policy of that he got it. It was a case of, "You scratch wancleringJew, Julius Vogel, who carried my back, and I'll scratch yours." So this on all sorts of swindling works to keep log-rolling goes on, and the Government himself in office, millions upon millions of are compelled to propose these railways English money were borrowed, and so whether they approve of them or not. long as the money came pouring in, so But the railway to Grafton cannot be com- long did the colony prosper ; but when the pared with the railway . over the Blue day came when the English capitalists Mountains. The rail way over the Blue would lend no more money then the colony · Mountains is a part of the main western was ruined, and it has been in a ruinous trunk line, and the mountains are full of condition ever since. Then protective coal. Is there any coal in the mountain duties were imposed, which the bon. mom- range between Grafton and Glen Innes~ ber for Northumberland would like to see Mr. SEE : Yes ; and there is gold ! imposed here, though I would not, for -I Mr. McELHONE: Ask the people of believe in free trade and a cheap loaf. Sydney who had been swindled out of New Zealand has been ruined through the thousands of, pounds in connection with borrowing policy of that wandering Jew, the reefs there what they think of the gold1 Vogel, who, as I saw the other day, had vVhatever may be said of the Grafton the impudence to make a demand upon railway a thousand times more can be the Government of his colony for floating said for the western railway, because it their loans, although he was the Agent has opened up the whole of the interior of General at the time. the colony. But my great objection to 1\fr. SEE : They raised a loan of a the Grafton railway is this: vVhereYer a million and a half the other clay most branch rail way is made it ought to become successfully ! a feeder to a main line, but the railway JI.:Ir. l\IcELHONE: It is the first they from Grafton to Glen Innes will be a have raised for years. Vogel is trying bleeder instead of a feeder. It· is like an again his old policy of borrowing millions opening made in a main artery to let the · of money to spend on public works in life blood out, because it will intercept the order to keep himself in office. For years New England traffic, which would other- the policy was a success; but when the wise go to the great northern line. And money ceased to come in, and the people on what plea is this to be done~ In order had to pay the piper, what was the result~ that the people of Grafton may get their A·land-tax, a property-tax, and taxes of sugar to the tableland, and get wheat from all sorts wP.re imposed. New Zealand has there in exchange. I honestly believe been brought into a condition of ruin ,_ thttt most of our railways will not pay. which will last for many years to come, The further we go with them the worse and many of her people-English, Irish, Fifth night. 254 Governor's Speech: [ASSEMBLY. J·. Address in Reply. and Scotch immigrants-who were starv According to the telegrams received the ing there nave come to this colony to ob quantity of rain that has fallen within the tain work. The same fate will overtake last clay or two is very slight indeed. A New South ·wales if this Government is quarter of an inch has fallen at Gunnedah, allowed to borrow sixteen millions more half an inch at Moree, and about the same money in order to buy the support of their at other places. At Tamworth yesterday f9llowers. ·when the money has been all I saw a telegram stating that there were spent, and taxes have to be put on, then heavy floods at 'Bega; but the hon. member God help New South Wales. vVe shall for Monaro tells me that there is no water. be in a far worse position than New Zea Mr. H. CLARKE : There is plenty of land, because, although New Zealand is a water ; but no grass ! smaller country than ours, 1 acre there is Mr. McELHONE : Still we have mem better that 15 here. There, if you put a bers sitting behind the Government urging crop into the ground you know what you them to borrow sixteen millions more will get out of it, and you know for a cer money ; and what for~ Simply that they tainty l10w many sheep the land will carry may get railways made to please their while here, owing to the uncertainties of constituents. vVhen the time comes for our climate, the rich man of to-day is a paying_the interest on the money borrowed poor man to-morrow, because his sheep have the people of the country will curse this .., died off in thousands. I know of station Government which has plunged them into holders who have lost 100,000 sheep and so much debt, as the people of New Zea others who have lost 200,000. I know land curse the Vogel Government. There men who have paid £80,000 or £90,000 is one matter I wish to mention which I for a station who are ruined men to-day was nearly forgetting. Some time ago on account of the heavy losses of sheep the Attorney-General spoke at a banquet they have sustained. But the Government at Maitland, and from what I 1vas able to will take no warning ; so long as they can judge the Minister of Justice was not in get the support of hon. members behind very good odour with his constituents. them they will go on borrowing money. And what was the cause~ The people of And who is going to pay the piper 1 The Maitland wanted a piece of land for a hon. member for Grafton says the- people public park. 1\Ir. Eales, the owner of the will pay; but I say that the people are land, wanted £10,000 for it, of which sum not able to pay. If we have a few more the people of Maitland proposed to pay months' dry weather, men who are to-day £5,000; and at the banquet a guarantee well off in the country will be banlrrupt, for that amount was promised to the Go because their stock will be lying dead. vernment. Shortly after the return of the We were never worse off than we are at ministers to Sydney, and after the Minister the present time. The country is suffering of Justice had found that he was not in from drought from one end to the other. favour with his constituents, a telegram At Bega sheep are dying for want of both appeared in the Maitland Me1·cury stating food and water. At Grafton there is no that the Government were going to pay . water in the creeks, and the Clarence dis the whole £10,000. No doubt that was trict has never been so badly off. Wool done because it was thought that the bon. is not now worth growing. It costs nearly member's seat was in jeopardy. three times :iS much now to grow it as it Mr. YOUNG : He is in no better odour did when the rents were only a farthing now! an acre. Sugar would not pay to grow Mr. McELHONE : They may have but for the duty on it. Copper will not' come to the conclusion that there is no pay to raise ; tallow has fallen in price; more to be got out of him. When the tin is hardly worth raising; wheat will hon. and learned member for Morpeth in not pay the farmer to grow. This state troduced a deputation to the Minister the of things along with the drought is causing other day·-- the best men in the country to shudder at· Mr. SEE : What about the bridge across . • the prospect of what may happen. the Hunter, which was to cost £100,000 ! Mr. SEE : The drought has broken up ! Mr. McELHONE: That was a neces Mr. McELHONE : The bon. member sary work. I believe that 1,000 acres there says that the drought has broken up. are worth 10,000 acres on the Clarence. [Mr. McElhone. Gov_erno1·' s Speech : [16 SEPT., 1885.] .Address in Reply. 255 The hon. member for The Richmond got fat on the plunder. Who will use the nearly a million for the Tweed railway. I£ city railway 1 Our tramways are paying the hon. member had been as corrupt as he ! per cent. and I venture to say that the is usually represented to be he would have city railway will not pay even that. I only had to ask for a bridge and he would voted against it before and it was lost by have got it. Some years ago the people of only one vote. If I am here when it comes Maitland agreed that if the Government up again, and if it was to be the last vote would give a certain sum of money towards of my life I would give it against the city piling the river bank they would subscribe railway. It is onP. of the biggest swindles pound for pound towards the cost. The ever got up in New South ·wales and if I people of Maitland borrowed £4,000 to were a membet· for Sydney I should say: make up a sum which they were short of, "I will vote against it because it will not the work being intended for the protec pay, and if you want to carry it you must tion of property, and I see that they are vote against me." now asking the Government to give them 1\:fr. CA~IERON : It is going the• wrong this £4,000 to cover that which they bor way! rowed. That money was not intended to l\Ir. McELHONE: It is not going to protect public property, but private pro West Sydney. I have taken a great deal perty. They succeeded in getting a second of trouble cruising about to see all I could £5,000 which was paid apparently to secure see, and I noticed that in New York there • the Minister's seat, and now because of their is not a railway through the city, except a success in regard to that swindle they are swindling railway overhead, which is ruin asking the Government to give them the ing people's property. In coming from £4,000 which they borrowed some years Washington we have to stop opposite New ago to protect private property on the river York, at the other side of the river, and the bank. I said just now that you only turn passengers cross in large steamers, and out one set of devils in order to put in an the passenger traffic is conveyed through infinitely worse lot. the streets in horse trams. In London Mr. O'CoxxoR : The people of West what do you see 1 You see no railway Maitland got the money ! ' whatever in the heart of London. Take :M:r. McELHONE: The hon. member the London and North-western railway is lucky. Individuals like him do not at Euston Square., I have arrived there want any public plunder. To represent a repeatedly at 5 o'clock in the morning, metropolitan constituency i~=; like what they and it has taken twenty-five minutes to call the Chiltern Hundreds in England. drive to Spiers and Ponds hotel in Hoi There are no public works wanted and born. We are told that we want a city there is_ no public plunder; hon. members' railway. There are two underground only trouble is to get their supporters into railways in London, which ·were joined nice little comfortable billets. when I was there. The junction was An RoN. MEllBER : Pyrmont Bridge ! made from Tower Hill to the Mansion Mr. McELHONE: In my opinion House, and it cost a million and a quarter. Pyrmont Bridge ought to be pulled down. It was stated in a journal called Engineer There is no necessity for a bridge there at ing that those two underground rail ways all. All you want is to bring a railway to were only paying 2~ per cent., not the foot of Market-street. I£ the people under the extr.avagar,tt management of a cannot walk that distance into town they government, but under the management do not deserve any assistance at all, and of a private company. It is shown ought not to have it. As for the city from the returns of the company for railway, if I had been here I should have years past that those railways are only spoken against it. If I am here when the paying 2! per cent.; and if in London, matter comes up again I shall vote against with its 4,000,000 of population, these it. A greater swindle was never attempted railways will not pay more than that, what than that scheme woulil be if carried out. are we to expect from this proposed city It is got up by land-jobbers like Mills and railway here 1 Engineering went on to • . Pile and others who want to increase the say that this junction from Tower Hill to value of land-men who are buying land the Mansion House, which cost over a for speculative purposes and hope to get million sterling, would pay only about 1' Fifth nigltt. 256 Governor~ s Speech : [ A!3SEMBLY.] Address in Reply. per cent. When the owners found that it of that swindling railway. The company was only paying 2~ per cent. they increased had been paying shareholders' dividends the fares by ld., and immediately a large out of borrowed money, and also paying number of omnibuses were put on to com working expenses out of borrowed money. pete with the railway, and they were com They had been borrowing money to re pelled to lower the fares again. This city place rolling stock, and to make other im railway has not originated with this Go provements which ought to have been paid vernment. A previous government moved for out of revenue. Then they went to in the matter some years ago, but the late the English market, thus admitting that Government of Sir Henry Parkes would they had been swindling the shareholders have nothing to do with it. I' say that a all the time. There is not a railway in greater swindle was never proposed than the States that is paying, because there this would be. We are told about the is too much competition. And the same enormous traffic which there would be on thing is going to take place here. They ·this railway. In London, Liverpool, and propose to make an opposition railway to Glasgow goods arrive from all parts of the the Clarence because it is asked for by two world by sea, and they have to be distri or three squatters. I recollect the time buted throughout the country. But what when the Lon. member for St. Leonards is the state of things in the city of Sydney~ voted against the proposed Illawarra rail In New South Wales not one case ever way, and we prevented it from being goes direct away·into the country. Mr. carried. But at last the coalition go vV. J. Watson and Mr. "'\Vebb are almost vernment came in, and it was then carried. the sole importers into the interior. All I recollect that when the present Minister the goods intended for the interior will for Lands was at the head of a govern have to be repacked. This city railway ment, the hon. member for Redfern, Mr. will have no goods traffic at all, and if the Sutherland, came down with a proposal to railway is made it will not pay working make hundreds of miles of railway. I say expenses. that thedaythat this sixteen millions which Mr. GARRETT : There will be no income the Government have power to borrow is at all from it ! spent New South \Vales will be insolYent. Mr. l\:IcELHONE: If the promoters The day will come then when you will of the swindles are successful they do not be able to pay your way, unless you not care two straws. I say advisedly have protective duties, property-taxes, and again, and I suppose it is the last time that sort of thing. Eighteen months ago I shall address this House, that I the Colonial Treasurer told the country honestly believe that there is not a that we were on the verge of ruin, and he single railway amongst all these which proposed to put a tax on real and personal they propose to make now that will pay property-every man who had a dray with anything like the interest on the money two or three horses was to be taxed to the invested in them. They have recently utmost. The last drop of blood was to be been to Bourke to open a railway, and wrung out of him, whilst Sir James what did they see there ~ A desert. If Martin, with his £3,000 a-year, and men they had gone further north to W algett like Mr. Darley and l\:Ir. Salomons were they would have seen all the stock dead to be let off free, as well as all our civil .or dying. They are going to make a railway servants, merely because professional in to W algett ; but it will not pay whether comes were said to be precarious. But they make it from N arrabri or from the poor labourer with his lOs. or 12s. a Mudgee. They are going to make a rail day, the honest, thrifty, industrious work way to Moree; but what is there in that ing man, who is trying to save a little out district~ There is no population. What of his slender earnings, was going to be -do we see in America~ There is not a taxed. The t.ime is not far distant when the railway in America that is paying. The Government will be compelled to pro -value of the stock is forced up by means pose some obnoxious imposts. If they of cooked accounts. The Central Railway go out of office, and I do not care ·· inNewYorkwassaid to be paying 8 and 10 whether they do or not-I say they per cent. for years; but beforelleft London are all alike-I am not a party man a loan was put on the market topaythedebts the next Government will do the same. · [Mr. McElhone. Governor's Speech: L16 SEPT., 1885.] Address in Reply. 257 When an appeal to the country takes Hoskins was compelled to support it, place the hon. member for Argyle will swindle though it was known to be ; come back stronger than ever he was. He and I believe this Government are com who could not get a seat in the city of pelled by their supporters in and out of Sydney three years ago can now get a seat doors to carry out :t railway policy in where he likes. When he takes office he which they do not believe. I am convinced will have to bring in some obnoxious the Government know that when some of scheme of taxation. I do not care who is these lines are constructed they will not in power.. I do not like the hon. member pay for 'the grease for the wheels. The for Argyle. "When in power he thinks country which some of them traverse and that there is no man like him ; he thinks open is only a desert, and never can afford that this globe of ours could not revolve homes. for free selectors. It may pay men without him; and he always drags his to take up blocks of 10,000 acres; but party clown by his autocratic manner. I nine-tenths of the selectors in those places recollect when the hon. member for Yass will be brought to ruin. The Government Plains said to me, "You cannot vote to may not be in office long, yet when they bring Sir Henry Parkes back into power." go out with all the charges levelled against But I said, " I will vote to bring the devil them, the next incoming government may back into power." I do not care ; _it is only be worse than the present. I utterly con setting devil against devil. I do not care demn the railway policy of the Govern who comes back. Whoever they are they ment for e_xtravagance. I condemn them will be compelled to propose heavy taxa for giving way to make a railway for the tion. At the present time every industry hon. member for Boorowa's district, is depressed, and men who were rich although I believe that is likely to pay. I yesterday are poor men to-day. I£ we condemn them in the strongest manner for have six months more of dry weather, the giving way to members with regard to country will be poorer than it has ever the proposed Clarence and New England been before. I do not blame the Govflrn line, and also for yielding to the hon. ment for their railway policy. I believe members by proposing a railway to Braid that if they bad been left alone they would wood. Although among others there is not have introduced it. They have been proposed a railway from Merriwa to J\:Ius compelled to do it, as previous govern wellbrook, I think the time has gone by ments have been compelled to do the same when it would pay; the bulk of the free sort of thing. I blame the members who selectors in that part will have to sell out have been servile enough to do everything on account of losses by bad seasons. The that they have been told to do by those time, however, may come when it will pay j who put them in. They have been mere but no crops have been grown there lately, delegates, doing simplywhat they were toljl and nearly all the live stock the district to do without having the courage to think formerly supported have died out. I con for themselves. They are afraid to speak demn the Government for their action honestly, and to tell their constituents that with regard to the dump-cars. I have the country cannot afford these expensive read the evidence taken before the select· railways, which will not pay when construc committee, and I think a greater job was ted. Members of this and other assemblies never perpetrated in this country. Who have been compelled by the people out of is to blame in the matter I do not know. doors to do things which they ought not to If you could believe the evidence of the be expected to do. I do not forget a speech officials of the department these cars were on that subject made by Mr. Hoskins, who the most worthless rubbish ever imported. was a bear in his way, uncouth and un Mr. SUTHERLAND : They have proved civil sometimes ; but an honester man, I themselves so since ! believe, never officiated in the Lands De Mr. McELHONE : And so has much partment; a man who broke down his con of the work done by Hudson Brothers. stitution as much as the present Colonial Greater rubbish was never made than the Secretary, Attorney-General, and Minister carriages turned out by that firm. One for Lands have done, by close attention of their first-class carriages actually fell to to his public duties. I recollect that when pieces on the northern line. It may be the Mudgee railway was proposed, Mr. that the commissioner is entirely to blame; R Fifth night. 258 Governo1·' s Speech : [ASSEMBLY.] . Address in Reply. but I cannot exonerate the Minister who, from the accusations of the enemy, whose in the face of the report of Mr. Middleton memory will stink in the nostrils of this condemning the clump-cars utterly, took country, while the engineer-in-chief will them over. We were told that the Go be held in respect as an honest and '7ernment would not pay for the cars if capable public officer. I saw the canta ihey were not up to the standard, yet lever bridge at Niagara, over which the -they paid for them though they were not trains have to slow to 3 miles an hour. up to the standard. When I read the In America trains are frequently stuck up. evidence I came to the conclusion that In one case we had to stop on the bank of ltir. Middleton would be made the black a river because those in charge of the train sheep ; and now I find that he has been were afraid to cross a bridge !-mile long suspended simply because he did his duty in the clark. None of the bridges are so to the government of the clay as an honest substantially built as they are here. The official. No doubt the next government next lot of passengers who crossed the will do him justice by putting him in office Green River had to hump their swags, :;~.gain, and I hope they will kick out the and Dr. Tucker and Mr. Lysaght told me coromis~ioner. When in London I read a that they only got one mea} in fifty-two speech made bytheTreas.urer atGlen Innes, hours, owing to a trumpery bridge being in which he condemned in unmeasured carried away. One bridge we crossed was terms the writer of an article in an English carried awayimmediatelyafterwards. They newspaper, who showed that the railway are nearly all timber structures, easily accounts had been cooked. What have swept down by flood. Why did not our the Government,clone 1 Instead of getting Government do their duty in the matter riel of the commissioner, who is not to be of the dispute I refer to, and get rid of the compared with the engineer-in-chief for commissioned Why does not the Minister honesty and ability, they have appointed a take the bull by the horns and determine commission to harass the engineer-in-chief. that he shall no longer try to injure this Yet it is well known that the country has faithful servant, the engineer-in-chief; let never been served by a more faithful and the engineer for existing lines l>e put under able public officer. A commission is ap the engineer-in-chief, and put the commis pointed to inquire into the state of the sioner in his proper position as mere traffic railway-bridges, and a lecturer, forsooth, on manager. ~1r. Hoskins sent to England engineering is brought from Victoria to say for a locomotive engineer, but the man whether our bridges are safe or not. 1\lir. was too honest and not sufficiently pliant ; Cowdery, our engineer for existing lines, and he desired to get a traffic manager. has been hounded on to annoy the engineer Mr. Sutherland, however, appointed the in-chief, and to try and ruin one of the present commissioner, who, instead of best and most honest public servants we doing his work as the engineer-in-chief have ever had. I wish that hon. members does, must take a car to himself and his here who speak disparagingly of the engi turf associates when he goes to the · neer-in-chief's work could see American Hawkesbury races. On one occasion Mr. lines I have lately travelled over, for I am Merriman and other bon. members, who sure t]J.ey would alter their tone. There had booked passages through, were left lines are laid with sleepers on the plain behind at Albury, while the commis ground, without ballast for protection, and sioner secured special accommodation for carried over streams on wooden trestle himself and the gang of swindlers with bridges, put together with 10 x 10 pine. whom he had been spending his time at Here we have a commissioner not fit to the Melbourne races. The inquiry has wipe the shoes of the engineer-in-chief indeed ended triumphantly for the engi for honesty and ability, and yet, instead neer-in-chief, and to some extent compen of kicking out the commissioner, or alter sates for the insult he has suffered at the ing the act which enables him to worry hands of the commissioner. The engineer the engineer-in-chief, he is allowed to in-chief ought to have the whole of the treat the faithful and highly competent railways, so far as construction and engineer-in-chief in the most insulting maintenance are concerned, in his hands. manner. The engineer-in-chief has come It is said that when the North Shore out of it clear and triumphant, freed bridge was proposed, Sir Henry Parkes, [Mr. McElhone. Governor's /5peeclb . [16 SEPT., 1885.] Address in Reply. 259 as Premier, promised to give the contract Hudson Brothers the other day. I am to a man named Garbett; but whether not going to blame the Government for that was the case or not there is no doubt undertaking the works ; the whole press that great losses to the public and great of the colony had been urging them to corruption may take place unless we have proceed with some scheme which would public servants whom we can trust, and insure a sufficient supply of water for the unless we le:;t-ve contracts to public com city during the coming summer. vVhat petition. I believe that all public works I do not like about the business is the fact ought to be let by tender. In the ca:se I that the contract was given to the firm of have just referred to I believe the contract Hudson Brothers. I do not believe in was proposed to be given by Sir Henry Hudson Brothers ; I believe that they Parkes on condition that Parliament sanc have grown fat on public plunder by tioned it, and no doubt he thought he was getting works which were not required, at then strong enough here to get the approval enormous prices, to wit, that tin pot house of Parliament for whatever he liked. But in George-street, which the bon. member he lost office by it. Are the present Go for Redfern, Mr. Sutherland, gave them vernment strong enough to carry out what the contract, for without competition, at ever they like~ I ask them to carry out the enormous price of £1,700, when the their pledge that all contracts for public building could have been erected for £500. works shall be let hy tender and public Mr. SuTHERLAND : I never did; it was competition, and if they do not I ask a public contract ! the House to compel them to take Mr. McELHONE : There was no public that course. Why was not that contract contract. The hon. member also gave open to tender which they gave to Mr. them the order for making railway staffs Carson Woods~ Again, on looking up the at £3 each when they could have been matter of the dump-cars, I see that the made at lOs. each. The hon. member also Government ordered a large number of gave them the contract without competi American engines also, without tender, tion for the telegraph station at Botany at whereas engines could be manufactured in a price four or five times higher than it England at a less cost and with greater ought to have been. The firm could get power. These American engines have whatever they liked from the hon. mem been condemned by the engineer-in-chief ber. Does the bon. member forget the and others, but in spite of that they were order which he gave them for block signal sent out. Mr. Morris said he was the houses-thirty houses at £40 each.. The sole agent for these things, and yet it was bon. member for West Sydney said that proved that it was only a bogus agency, they were not worth £15 each, and Mr. and that he got only one per cent out of Macintosh said that they were not worth the five. This £100,000 order was given £12. Thank God Mr. Robert Hudson without competition, and the locomotives has not been returned to-day for Canter were obtained from a country where we bury; I repeat that the firm have grown had no inspector. It is said that the fat on public plunder, and no man worked matter was urgent, and that none but the more for them than the hon. member for Baldwin Company could supply them in Redfern. time. But Beyer, Peacock, and Company Mr. SuTHERLAND : That is not true ! could make in three months as many as Mr. McELHONE : I am not here to we require here in seven years. Then we abuse any side in particular. I appeal to had this fellow Downes, who patented the hon. member for West Sydney, Mr. the combined motor. He condemned the Cameron, as to whether what I have said American motor because it was vertical, about the block-signal-houses is not true. but had the impudence afterwards to The firm had a siding made to their work foist upon us his combined motor and shops on the plea that they would carry <:ar. He was pretty well bribed in all their timber from Darling Harbour by America to give the order, and when rail; eighteen months afterwards the bon. the engines arrived, they were condemned member for West Sydney asked how much by Mr. Middleton and other officers. timber had been carried over the line, and The contract for the temporary water he was told not a stick. There are certain supply works was given to the firm of statements curl"fmt in the city about the Fifth night. •• 260 Governor's Speech: lASSEMBLY.Jl .Add1·ess in Reply. • Minister for Works, and I think that it is made against the Minister for Works is is just as well that he should hear what that he is a large shareholder·in Hudson they are, as most assuredly they will be Brothers' Company. The hon. member repeated on the hustings. Tenders were will hear of all these things on the hust called for the cartage of water-pipes, and ings. I blame him for the dump-cars con it is stated that the lowest tenderer was a tract, and also for allowing his firm's drays clerk in the employ of the firm of vV right, to carry goods from the Government Stores Heaton, and Company ; but when the DP.partment and the water-pipes from Cir tender was accepted the tenderer could cular Quay. If the bon. member says not be found ; the tender of a Mr. Kinsela, that the statement that the first tender ~ho is said to be a dummy, was then ac for the cartage of the pipes wa~:~ a dummy cepted, and it is said that Wright, Heaton, one, sent in by one of his clerks in the and Company bought him out; but fearing receipt of a salary of £2 or £3 a week, that there would be a row about it, they is untrue, I shall be prepared to take transferred it to some one else. Whether his word. Mr. Augustus Morris was these statements are true or not I do not foolish enough to write a letter in one know; but I do know that I see Wright, of the newspapers the other day about Heaton, and Company's drays used for the the order for locomotives. If ever there purpose of carrying the pipes from the was a servile tool created, Augustus Circular Quay. Since I came back from Morris is one of them. He got one of his England a man wrote me a letter making sons pitchforked into a position in the charges against the 111inister for Works ; Attorney-General's Office over the heads but as he made reference to private affairs of better men, who had beRn there for I would not move for a return. It was years, and he got another son pitchforked stated in the letter that although Mr. into a lieutenancy in the artillery force Shortland had the contract for carrying a refuge for lazy, idle loafers. Men who all the goods from the Stores Department, are too lazy to work turn to soldiering. the work was being done by Wright, This man had the impudence to write to Heaton, and Company, who had not ten say that he was sole agent for these loco dered for the work. motives, when the evidence taken by the Mr. O'CoxxoR : That is warm ! committee who inquil'ed into the dump Mr. Wrsno~I : It is true ! car business proves him to bP. a liar. He Mr. McELHONE : I do not say that it said that he was the sole agent for certain is true. I mention these matters because railway material, and that he got l per I think that it is only right that the cent., while the firm of Towns and Company Minister should know what is said about got 4 per cent. Is it likely that the firm him. There are cases where a government woulQ. get 4 per cent. as sub-agents, while are honestly entitled to enter into contracts the principal agent only got l per cent. ~ without cu,lling for tenders, and the con As to the Soudan affair, I was one of those tract for the temporary supply works may who voted against it, and I should vote be one of those cases. against a similar thing to-morrow. The Mr. F. B.· SuTTOR : Is the sum fixed~ action of the Government was quite un Mr. McELHONE: I have heard some called for. I never called it a war. It most ext.raordinary stories. I have been was more like a shindy at an Irish fair-a. told that certain parts of the timber work lot of policemen armed with revolvers on which the pipes are to be carried, which against a lot of devils with shillelahs. ought to be bolted together are being fixed In the Soudan a lot of poor, nakell, un together with wire nails, and that the armed Arabs were killed in the most result will be that the work will shrink ruthless manner by men armed with the and tumble to pieces in a short time. best weapons to be obtained in the world. I have been told that the work could M:r. TARGETT: It would be a good job havP. been done for £25,000 less than if all the wretched Arabs were killed ! Hudson Brothers are to receive for it; 1\fr. McELHONE : I do not agree with but they were so sure of getting the the hon. member. The quotations read contract that they bought all the iron from Mr. Power's letters by the hon. and of a particular kind that was to be learned member for Tumut show that the obtained in Sydney. Another charge which poor wretches had been ground down by [Mr. Mc.Elhone. •• -- Governor's i::Jpeech: (l6 SEPT., 1885.] Address in Reply. 261 the most corrupt power on the face of the Act. All that I can now say is that if I earth until· they ·could tolerate it no had an opportunity to do so to-morrow I longer. How would the bon. member would cheerfully vote against any step of like to be treated as, General Gordon says the kind. No doubt in the eyes of many he saw fifty poor wretches treated-they people in England-who entertain very were bastinacloed on the feet and flogged foolish notions in reference to the whole to death because they could not pay cer business-a great thing was clone for the tain iniquitous taxes~ All sorts of tortures Australian colonies in the despatch of this were inflicted on them. Human nature expedition. I say, as I l1ave said before, rebelled against such a state of affairs, and that if England were in real difficulties because the Arabs rebelled English troops if she were encompassed by some of the' ·were sent there to quell them. It has strong powers of Europe bent upon her: always been said that England fights for humiliation, it would be our duty as her freedom ; but in Egypt she fought to en children to spend our last shilling and our slave a lot of poor, miserable wretches who last drop of blood in her defence. There had already been tyrannisecl over to such fore I was glad to see after the men had an extent that they rebelled against their been sent to the Soudan where there was persecutors. really nothing for them to do, the Govern Mr. TARGETT : Nothing of the kind ! ment offered them for service in Afghanis Mr. M c E L H 0 N E : The hon. and tan supposing any additional troops were learned member for Tumut, who, I sup required there. If the Government had pose, is as good an authority on the subject not made this offer when they found that as the hori. member, said last night: the men were useless in the Scudan I He had the condemnation of it from the letters should have deemed them cowards and of the late Frank Power, the favourite com recreants and quite unfit for the offices they panion of General Gordon. This gallant young fellow, little more than a boy, wrote these letters hold in the Government of this country. to his mother-not for the sake of publication, This further offer of the troops, as they or for political purposes, but to his mother for have been called, was the redeeming feature her information, and hers only ; and he said of in the affair-the brightest chapter in its this war, in which we fought through our bap tism of fire, the following words :- hist.ory. I have heard many stories as to The Soudani and the Arabs arc splendid fellows ; ground the way in which the men were treated, down and robbed by every ruffian who has money enough and I will mention some of them to the (ill-gotten) to buy himself a position of Pasha, or fre• license to rob, they are quite right to rebel and hurl the House. On the clay before they landed nest of robbers to the other side of Siout. For years it has been kourbaRh, kow·bash, et toujours kourbash. the Government sent down to the Quaran This gets monotonous, n.nd the poor devils rebel. I will, in tine Ground a large quantity of warm deed, forgive the fellow who puts his lance into me, if that is to be my fate, beC!Iuse I will feel that he is right as clothing, chiefly socks, shirts, and blankets. long as I am of the same colour ns the scoundrels who have These goods were sent to the men on the robbed him and his for so many years. How is the go vernment of the country carried on? It is only the plains afternoon before they landed ; but the along the banks of the Nile which are cultivated. Every Arab must pay a tax-for himself, children, and wife or officers in charge of the stores were too lazy wives. · to serve them out. The consequence was The poor wretches had to pay a tax of £7 that a number of the poor fellows had to for a well, and £4 for a Loat. How would march through the streets of Sydney in the hon. member for Hartley like to pay a the pouring rain without a shirt to their tax on his wife ~ What would the hon. backs. Some of the men told me that member's constituents-the coal-miners of they had on nothing but their kharkee Hartley-think if the Government were coats and trousers, and that they were to say to them : " vVe are hard up for perished with the cold. The blankets and money; we must put a tax upon your wives the warm clothing were lying unopened at and children, upon your wages and every the Quarantine Ground. I asked Dr. thing you have "~ Would not the hon. lVIackellar in the presence of the Colonial member endeavour to put such a govern Secretary if it was true that this clothing ment out of power~ I think there never had been sent down, and he told me that was a more scandalous waste of public what I had beard was quite true. A money than the expenditure involved in large quantity of fish was sent down to the despatch of this contingent to the the men, but they did not see any of it. Soudan. But the House condoned what Those useless vagabond officers ate the was done when it passed the Indemnity whole of the fish. Again, 2,000 warm Fifth night. 262 Governor's Speech: [ASSEMBLY:] Address in Reply. coats were sent away with the troops from ment. In the Soudan he was again attacked Sydney. I believe the Government sup by the collywobbles, and retired on board plied the men with plenty of food and the steamer until all the fighting was done. clothing. It was afterwards discovered Thesearethekind of men who have received that owing to mismanagement on the part banquets, and who have been thanked by of those lazy loafing officers not a coat had the people of England for their services. been served out to the men. We know I believe the men would have fought if that the citizens of Sydney gave the troops they had had the opportunity. They are presents in the shape of considerable the right breed for fighting-Englishmen, quantities of tobacco, cigars, fruit, and Scotchmen, and Irishmen mixed together. . wine. One of the men told me that But thank God they had no enemy to fight. ~ they did not see any of this tobacco or If they had had to meet European troops wine. My informant said that he had to in the battle-field under the officers we buy the whole of.his tobacco. The officers, sent. with them they would have been he said, appropriated the whole of the mowed down like so much corn before the presents from the citizens. They used to sickle. 'fhank God they left the country loaf about the hurricane-deck of the when they did. If they had remained there steamer, and crowded the men down below until August I believe the climate would in a stifling heat. have killed the whole of them. As far as Mr. O'MARA : But they saved the em one can judge from the stories which the pire! men are circulating the officers behaved Mr. McELHONE: God help the empire like a number of tyrants. They neglected if it can be saved by such a lot of vaga to serve out the stores; and they gorman bonds and ruffians. I was told by some dised the whole of the presents which of the men that after they had landed at were made to the troops by the citizens of Suakim they were treated like dogs__:_as Sydney. If the Government intend to if they were the vilest scum of the earth. institute an inquiry into the conduct of And Colonel Richardson, who has never Lieutenant Mulholland let them at the faced a shot in his life, was unable-as we same time inquire into these other matters. might have expected-to form his troops So far as Lieutenant Mulholland is con in a given order, the result being that cerned I sincerely hope that the charges are General Graham had to take the control of not true. If he acted in the way in which the men out of his hands, and to send one he is alleged to have acted he certainly is of the imperial officers to put the companies deserving of severe punishment; but I hope through their facings. I believe that a it will be found that he behaved as a letter has been received from an officer in soldier ought to behave on the field of battle. the imperial service who, speaking of the Colonel Spalding, I see, has been made continge1 tt, said that the men were a fine lot a C. M.G. Like other officers he got pitch of fellows, but that the officers were a rank forked into his position. His promotion lot of muffs. I have known Colonel vVells has been obtained by influence. And for twenty years as a neighbour. I know what are his qualifications~ He knows no that he is a good hand at boosing, and I more about soldiering than I do. I dare believe that a day's march in the Soudan say he knows the goose step, and there would have killed him. I am told that probably his ideas of soldiering end. These Colonel Richardson has the Crimean medal. are the men who, if we are correctly in I believe that he did not see a shot fired. formed, are to be decorated with a medal. If He went out from home with the last of what I have heard be true, I think that in the troops, and landed at Constantinople stead of receiving a medal they ought to b~ when the war was practically over. For degraded by way of punishment for their this service he received the Crimean medal. tyrannical conduct towards the troops I am told that Colonel Richardson also under their command. Some of the men has aNew Zealand medal. He saw no ser said that they would willingly have gone vice there: He got the collywobbles, and to fight in Afghanistan under British was obligeP. to come here on sick leave; he officers, but that there was no fear of their obtained his appointment through the in doing so with the officers under whose fluence of .Mr. James Dickson, who was then command they were sent to the Soudan. a great supporter of the Cowper Govern- They said they did not mind fighting under [ Mr. McElhone. Governor's Speech : [16 SEPT., 1885.] .Address in Reply. 263 the command of men who were trained in until they are put out by this House. the art of war; but that they were not going The Government have a majority which to place themselves under these miserable will keep them in while this Parliament ragamuffins. I think it was a cruel and lasts; but they must see the mistake they cowardly act of the Government> to send made by not dissolving Parliament. The these men to fight under such officers in a session opened badly. I told the Colonial climate like the Soudan ; but I hope, if Secretary that he never made a greater ever the time comes when England is at mistake than when he brought that charge war with Russia or any great power, that against Sir Henry Parkes. It created ill the whole of the colonies will do their feeling and anger on this side of the duty by the old mother country, and that House, and no doubt on the other side we shall be found willing to spend the also. Again, we have spent a fortnight last drop of our blood in an effort to over the present debate. Why we might maintain her freedom and independence. have had the general elections over. Then, There never has been a power in the if the Government came back in a minority, world like England, and when her time all they would have to do would have been comes to take a second-rate position there to resign, and let Sir Hfmry Parkes, the never will be another such power as long late Attorney-General, the hon. member as the world lasts. I repeat, sir, that I for The Hunter, or the bon. member for think the Government made a great mis The Macleay, form a government and do take in calling Parliament together at all. the best they could for the country. It is They had' supplies until the end of the not too late now. The Government have a year, and they should have dissolved Par ma,jority at their back; the Governor liament and let the people say who were will give them a dissolution. They have to come back; let our masters say whether a better right to ask for a dissolution than the present Government should come back Sir Henry Parkes had. This is their Par with a majority at their back. If the Go liament, elected under their auspices ; vernment are defeated they will no doubt they have carried their land bill and accept their defeat like men. I am sure everything they proposed, and they could that the Minister for Lands does not care go· with a good face to the Governor and two straws about going out of office. I ask for a dissolution. I can see from the am sure that Sir Alexander Stuart would feeling in the House that there will be be glad to go out of office, for we see him all sorts of opposition to their measures. a mere wreck of the man he was. I have I am told that the Colonial Treasurer, said things to him that I ought not to have when he met Parliament last year got all said, and for which I am sorry. No one his estimates through in one or two nights. could have been more sorry than I was Mr. DmBs : You were not in the when I heard that the bon. gentleman had House then! been struck with paralysis. No man haH Mr. McELHONE : I would not have worked harder than he has done. And no opposed you, because, like the r~st of the man is more sorry than I am to see that the House, I was broken clown by the long Attorney-General has broken his health session. The Government can see with the down with overwork-by doing his col feeling of the Opposition benches that they leagues' as well as his own work. I am cannot hope to carry the estimates. sure he did not care two straws about 1\ir. DmBs : The responsibility will be coming into the Government, and he will on the other side ! not care two straws if he goes out to Mr. McELHONE : I have not seen the morrow. And very likely the Colonial Public Health Bill, but I believe it pro Treasurer would not care two straws if he vides for new appointments and large had to retire from the Government. So additional expenditure-money which the long, however, as they are a government country can ill afford. I have said before they are bound to stick together. If Sir that I believe the bulk of the doctors in Alexander Stuart or Mr. Dalley retires the this colony are most infernal humbugs Government will break down at once. and quacks. I dare say the Colonial Although they are holding office at the Treasurer will agree with me, for they did risk of their lives, they are doing what not do him much good. We do not want men ought to do ; they are holding office the bill now ; there will be plenty of time Fifth night . .. -.r-... 264 Governor's Speech: [ASSEMBLY. J Address in Reply. to pass it in the next Parliament. We in a house where a woman was living. lVIr. have waited so long that we can very well Halliday, who is a very nice gentleman, wait a liUle longer. Doctors get up all gave £1,000. A few people gave large sorts of scares to frighten people, and to sums of money, but of those who gave get their money, like the lawyers. Neither small amounts the railway workmen were can the Government carry the Local compelled to contribute; for if they bad not Government Bill. I advise them in all they would have been black-balled by the sincerity, as soon as this debate is closed, department. But have the working-men to dissolve Parliament. They may come of the country given their money~ Have hack as strong as they were before for all the middle classes, wl10 are worth their I care. If they are going to be beaten, I thousands, given their money~ I know I did do not suppose t.he Minister for Lands not give a penny. I think the men who will cry if Sir Henry Parkes comes back gave were a lot of maniacs and fools-a again. \Vhen I heard that the bon. gentle lot of tag-rag and bob-tail, men who would man was broken down with work my not give a shilling to prevent a fellow advice to him was that as soon as he creature from dying in the gutter. They went out of office he should give will only give their money when the dona Parliament best and go and enjoy himself tion appears in the public press. Sir Alex for the remainder of his life, as I intend ander Stuart gave some money when he sent to do. Moreover, this Parliament is ex his approval, but it did not appear in the piring, and we have no right to pass laws paper~;. I believe honestly that the large which will tax the people in the future, majority of the people of the country will or for any longer than the period of our condemn the policy of the Government in existence. Government have no right to this matter. \Vith regard to the men who ask the Honse to give the estimates, be went to the Soudan I have no doubt they cause according to a great authority a were brave men, and would fight well ; Parliament can only tax the people for but if I had my way I would give every the time for which it is elected. I feel one of them twenty-five lashes, and a sure that the next Parliament will come month in gaol. John Fairfax and Sons down and tax us heavily to pay interest gave £1,000 towards the patriotic fund. on the money we have borrowed. Let I suppose we shall hear of lVIr. Fairfax the Governm~nt face tlH~ country like men. being knighted. Then you will have If the people approYe of the Soudan policy Bennett Brothers being knighted. The and other things they have done, let them coming man for Canterbury in the House come back for all I care. 1 would not of Commons, :M:r. Henniker Heaton, if he like to stop here for a lifetime ; they will is elected as a Conservative member, not have me here again. If Sir Henry will use his influence with the Govern Parkes should come back, the present ment to get Bennett Brothers either made Governm~nt will not find me silently sup baronets or K.C.M.Gs. or something else. porting him. I shall very likely be An l-IoN. l\iEMBER : He was the origin found, as before, sitting opposite to him, ator of the Soudan movement ! and doing all I can to harass him, for a Mr. McELHONE : He told a mean lie. week or two is about as long a time as I can If any credit is due to anybody it is to support any Government. Notwithstand 1\fr. Dalley. I give the Attorney-General ing what the Governor said about the paltry credit for acting patriotically, and doing minority who were against the Soudan what he thought best for the country. We expedition, I believe that when we go to have had a proof to-day that this policy is the country we shall find that the great not approved of by the people. The two bulk of the thinking people of the country principal reasons why l\1r. Hudson lost are opposed to the action of the Govern the contest for Central Cumberland were ment in this matter. I am told about the because he was a public contractor, and money that was given. Who gave it 1 lVIr. because the electors were opposed to the James Tyson gave £2,000; Why a few policy of the Government. The He1·ald years ago he would go from one end of the came out with a namby-pamby article al country to the other living on opossums he most asking, in a wishy-washy way, the caught by the way. He would not pay people to vote for Hudson. I say it would for a night's lodging, and would not sleep be a disgrace to the country if a member [Mr. ]fcElhone. .. i\, Fisheries Act. [17 SEPT., 1885.] Sir John Goode, 265 of a firm who have lived upon the funds of stealing~ (2.) And whether the act is, in . the country for years past, were to be re the opinion of the commission, working turned to this House to use his influence. well, or whether it requires immediate I think the people have done their duty in amendment~ electing Mr. Henson. I do not care two Sir ALEXANDER STUART an straws for Mr. Henson; he will soon be swered,-This matter is at· present en in this House, and be will perhaps be a gaging attention. It seems that the penal more useful member than I am. I advise ties for stealing oysters are hardly suffi the Government to think well over this cient; but by regulations more stringently matter. I ask them if they are going 'to drafted they may be made so. When those stop here for the next three monthS' additional regulations have been promul wrangling over the Public Health Bill and gated, if they should still be found ins~ffi.!" the Local Government Bill, and fighting cient, recourse will then be had to this the estimates inch by inch. If they wish House for powers to inflict greater penal to see the Premier in his grave before the ties for the offence. end of the year, they will carry on. Mr. WrsDonr: They won't get their GLEBE ISLAND ABATTOIR. estimates! Mr. YOUNG (for Mr. GARRARD) asked Mr. McELHONE : I do not care two the CoLONIAL TREASURER,-(1.) What is ·straws. They can have them as far as I the reason for the delay in removing the am concerned. I have already suffered abattoir from Glebe Island~ (2.) When too .much by sitting here night and day, will the abattoir be removed ~ and I will not do it any longer. I believe :M.r. DIBBS answered,-(1.) Pending that when the elections do take place the the completion of the meat markets. (2.) apple-cart will be capsized-the people In about three months. will cast out the present devils, and very PROPOSED RAILWAY FRO:M: ST. PETER'S likely will get a lot of devils ten times TO LIVERPOOL. worse. Mr. S. A. STEPHEN aske.d the SECRE Mr. FARNELL: As I intend to address 'TARY FOR PuBLIC WoRKs,-(1.) Have, the House at some length, though not at plans of the proposed loop-line to Livel' any extraordinary length, and as the hour pool been prepared~ (2.) Has any decision is rather late for me to begin now, I beg been arrived at by the Government on the to move: question of making such line~ (3.) Is there That the debate be now adjourned, and stand any objection to such plans being laid upon an order of the day for to-morrow. the table of this House~ Question resolved in the affirmative. Mr. WRIGHT answered.-(1.) Yes. House adjourned at 11·10 p.m. (2.) Not yet. (3.) If the Government determine to propose the scheme to Par liament, plans will be laid upon the table. 3Legizlatihe <;!z.sembll!. SIR JOHN COODE. Thtwsday, 17 Septernber, 1885. Mr. YOUNG asked the SECRETARY FOR PuBLIC vVORKs,-(1.) Has he succeeded in Fisheries Act-Glebe Island Abattoir-Proposed Railway from St. Peter's to Lh·erpool-Sir John Coode-Speech engaging the services of Sir John Coode to of Mr. McCulloch, J'ILP.-Reclaumtion in Rozelle, report on the harbours and rivers of the White, nnd Sunil's Bays-New Member (Mr. Henson) colony 1 (2.) If not, will he state the stage -Purchase of American Locomotives-Public Health Bill-Go,·ernor's Speech : Address in Reply. the negotiations for that purpose have now reached~ Mr. WRIGHT answered, -A letter was Mr. SPEAKER took the chair. addressed to Sir John Coode, requesting FISHERIES ACT. that he would visit this colony to inspect Mr. W. CLARKE (for Mr. R. H. D; and report upon the harbours, &c., and a WHITE) asked the CoLONIAL SECRETARY, reply has been received by the Colonial ( I.) Is it his intention to ascertain from Secretary to the effect that Sir J o~n Coode the Fisheries Commission their opinion as will extend his visit to N e.w South vV ales, to the necessity of amendments in the act, and give effect to the request of the Govei·n making penalties more severe for oyster nient.