BEFORE THE PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA
[Greenville, South Carolina]
HEARING # 13-11348 JUNE 24, 2013 6:00 P.M. DOCKET NO. 2013-59-E: Duke Energy Carolinas, LLC - Application for Authority to Adjust and Increase Electric Rates and Charges
TRANSCRIPT OF TESTIMONY AND PROCEEDINGS VOLUME 2
HEARING BEFORE: Randy MITCHELL , CHAIRMAN , , G. O’Neal HAMILTON , VICE CHAIRMAN ; and COMMISSIONERS John E. ‘Butch’ HOWARD , Elizabeth B. 'Lib' FLEMING , Swain E. WHITFIELD , and Nikiya ‘Nikki’ HALL ADVISOR TO COMMISSION : B. Randall Dong, Esq.
STAFF: Jocelyn Boyd, Chief Clerk/Administrator; James Spearman, Ph.D., Executive Assistant to Commissioners; David Stark, Esq., Legal Staff; William O. Richardson and Phil Riley, Advisory Staff; Jo Elizabeth M. Wheat, CVR-CM/M-GNSC, Court Reporter; and Calvin Woods, Hearing Room Assistant
APPEARANCES:
HEATHER S. SMITH, ESQUIRE, TIMIKA SHAFEEK- HORTON, ESQUIRE, and FRANK R. ELLERBE III, ESQUIRE, representing DUKE ENERGY CAROLINAS, LLC, APPLICANT
COURTNEY DARE EDWARDS, ESQUIRE, representing the SOUTH CAROLINA OFFICE OF REGULATORY STAFF
PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA
101 EXECUTIVE CENTER DRIVE POST OFFICE BOX 11649 COLUMBIA , SC 29210 COLUMBIA , SC 29211 WWW .PSC .SC .GOV Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 100
I N D E X
PAGE
REMARKS BY Rep. P. Mike Burns ...... 104 Sen. Karl B. Allen ...... 104 Ann Wilson [for Sen. Michael L. 'Mike' Fair] ...... 105 Rep. Leola Robinson-Simpson ...... 112
PRELIMINARY MATTERS ...... 103-113
24. TESTIMONY of LES GARDNER ...... 113
25. TESTIMONY of REV. PHILIP A. PARIS, SR...... 116
26. TESTIMONY of REX O'STEEN ...... 119
27. TESTIMONY of RUBY ROSADO ...... 122 Examination by Ms. C. Edwards ...... 123
28. TESTIMONY of SELDON PEDEN ...... 124 Examination by Commissioner Whitfield ...... 127
29. TESTIMONY of DONALD F. CUDDIHEE, SR...... 129
30. TESTIMONY of ROBERT G. 'BUTCH' TAYLOR ...... 131
31. TESTIMONY of ANNETTE CHRISTY ...... 134
32. TESTIMONY of BO DAVIS ...... 136
33. TESTIMONY of CYNTHIA B. HYATT ...... 141
34. TESTIMONY of JOHN WIEBEL ...... 145
35. TESTIMONY of ANTONE JONES ...... 150 Examination by Commissioner Fleming ...... 153
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PAGE
36. TESTIMONY of THEO W. MITCHELL ...... 154
37. TESTIMONY of SETH POWELL ...... 157 Hearing Exhibit No. 2 marked/received [Petition(s) and other submitted materials] .... 161
38. TESTIMONY of TRACI FANT ...... 161 Examination by Ms. C. Edwards ...... 163
39. TESTIMONY of BEN HASKEW ...... 166
40. TESTIMONY of KENNETH SERCY ...... 168 Examination by Commissioner Fleming ...... 171
41. TESTIMONY of BARBARA KEETON ...... 172
42. TESTIMONY of JEFF STEWART ...... 175
43. TESTIMONY of EFIA NWANGAZA ...... 178
44. TESTIMONY of JAN WILLIAMS ...... 180 Examination by Commissioner Whitfield ...... 183 Hearing Exhibit No. 3 marked/received [Bill data] ...... 184
45. TESTIMONY of LEN GUTHRIE ...... 186
46. TESTIMONY of JOHN UNKEFER ...... 190 Examination by Commissioner Fleming ...... 195 Hearing Exhibit No. 4 marked/received [Submitted materials] ...... 198
47. TESTIMONY of DAVID HAYES ...... 199 Examination by Chairman Mitchell ...... 202
48. TESTIMONY of SYLVIA MERCADO ...... 204 Examination by Ms. C. Edwards ...... 207
49. TESTIMONY of PATRICIA TAYLOR ...... 208
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PAGE
50. TESTIMONY of NANCY HALVERSON ...... 210
51. TESTIMONY of HAL JOHNSON ...... 212 Examination by Commissioner Whitfield ...... 215 Examination by Chairman Mitchell ...... 217 Examination by Commissioner Fleming ...... 217 Examination by Chairman Mitchell ...... 218
52. TESTIMONY of J.M. FLEMMING ...... 220 Hearing Exhibit No. 5 marked/received [Petition(s)] ...... 222
53. TESTIMONY of DENNIS J. TULLY ...... 222 Examination by Chairman Mitchell ...... 225
54. TESTIMONY of CARLA ENGLE ...... 226
55. TESTIMONY of MARY ELLEN FAIRCLOTH ...... 230
56. TESTIMONY of JUNE ANDERSON ...... 233
57. TESTIMONY of GENE HAWKINS ...... 241
58. TESTIMONY of CLARENCE THORNTON ...... 246
59. TESTIMONY of LOTTIE B. GIBSON ...... 250
60. TESTIMONY of PRINCELLA LEE-BRIDGES ...... 251 Examination by Ms. C. Edwards ...... 254
61. TESTIMONY of SANDRA JONES ...... 255
62. TESTIMONY of STEVEN BRYANT ...... 259
63. TESTIMONY of CARRIE MINGO ...... 262
Hearing Exhibit No. 6 marked/received [6/24/13 Sign-In Sheets] ...... 265
REPORTER’S CERTIFICATE ...... 266
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1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Okay. I would like to
3 call this hearing to order tonight. We certainly
4 thank each and every one of you for being in
5 attendance tonight, and we are the Public Service
6 Commission and we're so happy to be able to come to
7 Greenville, to travel up here so that you don't
8 have to travel to Columbia to speak to us. And
9 we're just so happy for this crowd. We're
10 certainly here and want to hear every word that is
11 said, so we would ask you, if you could, please
12 refrain from clapping, so that we can get
13 everything on the recorder, so we can get every
14 word recorded. And we're just so thankful to be
15 here.
16 Before we get started, I'd like to introduce
17 the Commissioners. First, to my far right, we have
18 Commissioner Hall. Immediately by me is
19 Commissioner Whitfield. And we have, to my far
20 left, Commissioner Howard; and next to him,
21 Commissioner Fleming; and then Commissioner
22 Hamilton. We make up six of the seven members of
23 the Public Service Commission. We have -- our
24 Chairman has left; he has taken another job, and so
25 we just have six of the seven. That would have
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1 been former Chairman Wright.
2 So we're happy to be here with you tonight. I
3 would ask at this time -- I believe we have
4 Representative Mike Burns here? Representative
5 Burns? Yes, sir, would you like to say anything?
6 REP. BURNS: I came tonight to understand what
7 the people's feelings are. I've made up my mind
8 with some of the facts, and I would like to glean
9 from citizens what they think. I'm happy that we
10 have this good turn-out tonight so that we all can
11 hear what our citizenry thinks about this issue.
12 Thank you, very much.
13 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Thank you, sir, for being
14 here. Yes, sir.
15 [Applause from audience]
16 We also have Senator Karl Allen. Senator
17 Allen? Yes, sir.
18 SEN. ALLEN: Mr. Chairman, to the Commission,
19 we want to thank you for coming to Greenville to
20 hear from the people regarding their position as it
21 relates to this issue, being able to take those
22 facts back and make an informed decision. And we
23 ask you to not forget about the people, balance
24 that with Duke Energy, and come up with a decision
25 that makes and represents their ideology. So,
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1 again, we extend the hospitality of Greenville,
2 South Carolina, to the Public Service Commission of
3 South Carolina. Thank you.
4 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Thank you Senator Allen.
5 [Applause from audience]
6 And we also have a representative of Senator
7 Mike Fair? Could you come forward, please, at this
8 time? Just introduce yourself. We're so happy to
9 have you representing Senator Fair.
10 MS. ANN WALLACE [SEN. FAIR]: Thank you, Mr.
11 Chairman. My name is Ann Wallace and I'm here on
12 behalf of Senator Mike Fair. Unfortunately, he's
13 out of town, so he sent me in his place.
14 I wanted to -- Senator Fair wanted to be here,
15 but he also desired to express his respectful
16 opposition to the proposed rate increase.
17 While Senator Fair is the chairman of the
18 Greenville Legislative Delegation, he wanted to
19 make sure that the Commission understood that the
20 following comments simply represent his individual
21 opinion.
22 Our office has received numerous e-mails from
23 concerned citizens regarding this rate increase.
24 They state that the proposed increase would be
25 harmful to them, their neighbors, and our
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1 struggling economy. Section 58-27-810 of the South
2 Carolina Code of Laws states that every rate made,
3 demanded, or received by any electrical utility
4 shall be just and reasonable. Further, it is the
5 mandate of the Public Service Commission to
6 determine whether or not the proposed rate
7 increases meet the specification that rates are
8 just and reasonable. This directive is made doubly
9 important as electric consumers are unable to look
10 to other electric utility providers in an effort to
11 find competitive rates, due to state law, and
12 therefore are subject to pay whatever rates are
13 determined just and reasonable by your Commission.
14 The average residential bill for 1,000
15 kilowatt-hours has increased $17.23 from October 1,
16 2008, to January 1, 2013. While $17.23 may seem
17 like an insignificant amount, this equates to a
18 $206.76 increase per year for Duke Energy
19 consumers. That is also almost $207 less per year
20 for other necessities for our neighbors that are on
21 a fixed income.
22 The proposed 16.3 percent rate increase would
23 mean the average bill would increase $16.37 to an
24 average bill of $116.82 per 1,000 kilowatt-hours,
25 from the most recent electric residential rate
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1 increase, which occurred on January 1st. This
2 further equates to an additional cost to Duke
3 Energy residential consumers of $196.48 per year.
4 That figure represents 95 percent of the total rate
5 increases experienced by Duke Energy residential
6 consumers from October 1, 2008, until January 1,
7 2013, a period of four years and three months,
8 whereas the current proposed increase occurs only
9 months after the most recent change.
10 I come before the Commission to speak on
11 behalf of Senator Fair and of the numerous
12 constituents that have expressed concern over the
13 problems they're having with their high utility
14 bills. I urge you to take into consideration the
15 undue stress this will place on households
16 throughout Greenville County and other surrounding
17 areas, specifically homes that are on a fixed
18 income. In this period of economic recovery, any
19 undue burden placed on our neighbors will have far-
20 reaching consequences. Thank you.
21 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Thank you so much for
22 being here.
23 [Applause from audience]
24 At this time, I would call on our attorney,
25 Randall Dong, if he would, to give us the ground
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1 rules for tonight, and also to bring them up to
2 date on the docket and maybe when the large hearing
3 will be. Thank you.
4 MR. DONG: Good evening. This is the public
5 night hearing for the Duke Energy rate case, Docket
6 No. 2013-59-E. This is the second of four
7 opportunities the public will have to speak about
8 this rate case. There is another hearing on
9 Thursday, June 27th, at the Anderson Civic Center;
10 then there will be another opportunity on Thursday,
11 August 1st, at the Public Service Commission
12 offices in Columbia. And that's when we will have
13 the hearing in chief.
14 I would ask that each of you, when I call you
15 to speak -- I'm going to try to call a couple of
16 names at a time. We're going to try to make this
17 -- try to hear from as many people as we can.
18 We've got a time clock over here that is set for
19 three minutes. We would respectfully ask that you
20 try to observe the time allotted, so that we can
21 hear from as many people as want to speak.
22 If you have cell phones, if you could please
23 silence them.
24 Also, the testimony you're giving here is
25 going to be given the same weight as if it were
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1 given in Columbia on the day of the hearing, the
2 merits hearing. So we're here for you; we are here
3 for your convenience. If you'd like to speak here
4 -- you are only given one opportunity to speak, so
5 if you speak here, you won't be permitted to speak
6 in Columbia. But, either way, we have a court
7 reporter who is transcribing the testimony word-
8 for-word, and it will be entered into the record
9 and treated the same way as though it were given in
10 Columbia.
11 And with that said, unless there is anything
12 else, I think I'll go ahead and call our first
13 witnesses?
14 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Yes. And as you stated
15 earlier, we certainly want two names. We'd like
16 one person to come forward, and then the other
17 person be close by.
18 MR. DONG: I'm sorry, I'd like to take
19 appearances. From the Applicant, please?
20 MS. SHAFFIK-HORTON: Good evening. I'm Timika
21 Shafeek-Horton, for Duke Energy. Along with me are
22 Frank Ellerbe and Heather Shirley Smith.
23 MR. DONG: And from Office of Regulatory
24 Staff?
25 MS. C. EDWARDS: Courtney Edwards, on behalf
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1 of ORS.
2 MR. DONG: Okay.
3 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: And the only thing I would
4 like to add -- I'm sure the ORS would like for me
5 to relay this to you. They are here tonight -- and
6 I'm certain you still have your representatives,
7 Ms. Edwards?
8 MS. C. EDWARDS: We do, Mr. Chairman.
9 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Yeah, could you introduce
10 those very quickly, so that the audience will know?
11 MS. C. EDWARDS: I would be happy to. Mr.
12 Chairman, we have Allyn Powell -- if you look to
13 the left, she's got the polka-dot dress on -- and
14 she is in our Electric Department. We also have
15 Brad Kirby, who is in our Consumer Services
16 Department. If you have any questions throughout
17 the hearing or you need to leave early and want to
18 talk to them -- I can't answer any questions during
19 the hearing -- they would be happy to help you. If
20 you have any further questions that extend past
21 tonight, we also have an 800 number -- Consumer
22 Services' 800 number. They can also -- Mr. Kirby
23 and Ms. Powell will be glad to give you that
24 number, as well. Thank you.
25 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: And I believe -- would
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1 Duke have a representative that anyone would like
2 to talk to during the hearing?
3 MS. SHAFFIK-HORTON: [Nodding Head.] If you
4 all have questions during this evening, we have a
5 number of representatives. Barbara Yarbrough is
6 here. She can handle customer and billing issues.
7 Carlton Furr is here, in the back; he can talk to
8 you about any reliability issues or questions you
9 have. Terry Smith is here and can answer questions
10 about vegetation management.
11 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: So we certainly want you
12 all to take advantage of that. If you have any
13 question when you come up, I'm sorry that tonight
14 we can't answer questions, but these
15 representatives will be more than happy to answer
16 questions during the hearing and after we've
17 already finished the hearing. They'd be happy to
18 be here, if you would.
19 MR. DONG: And just to clarify what Chairman
20 Mitchell has just said, by statute, the Commission
21 is a quasijudicial body and cannot speak to
22 individuals about an ongoing case. So we are
23 restricted by law from speaking to you about that.
24 So the Office of Regulatory Staff can
25 certainly answer questions, as can the utility, but
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1 the Commission is here to hear testimony from you,
2 and we're here to make sure that testimony gets in
3 the record. So I just wanted to be clear about
4 that.
5 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: And one other thing before
6 we -- Representative Leola Robinson-Simpson has
7 just -- Representative Simpson, anything you'd like
8 to say at this time? Glad to have you with us.
9 REP. ROBINSON-SIMPSON: Good evening.
10 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Good evening.
11 REP. ROBINSON-SIMPSON: I'd just like to take
12 this opportunity to thank all of you for taking the
13 time to schedule hearings across the Upstate and,
14 actually, throughout the regions that you cover.
15 This is a serious matter. We've talked about
16 it on many occasions. In fact, as you all know, I
17 submitted the request to the Public Service
18 Commission for this very hearing, because I think
19 it's important that you hear, you know, how these
20 rate increases will impact the lives of people in
21 this area, especially low-income, our senior
22 citizens, others on fixed incomes.
23 So we do appreciate your being here. I
24 submitted a written -- a piece of testimony to you.
25 But, again, thank you.
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1 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Thank you. At this time,
2 if you would, Mr. Dong --
3 MR. DONG: Okay.
4 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: -- if you would move
5 forward and call two names.
6 MR. DONG: The first two witnesses I have on
7 the list are Les Gardner and Rev. Philip Paris.
8 [Witness sworn]
9 THEREUPON came,
10 L E S G A R D N E R ,
11 who, having been first duly sworn, testified as follows:
12 WITNESS: My name is Les Gardner. I live at
13 350 Mountain Creek Church Road #1, Greenville,
14 29609.
15 Commissioners, I thank you for your service
16 and thank you for this opportunity. I'm the
17 director of Development at the Greenville Tech
18 Foundation. I've been asked to speak on behalf of
19 the leadership of Greenville Technical College.
20 Duke Energy has supported what is known as
21 AdvanceSC since its creation in 2004. AdvanceSC
22 has awarded over $52 million in grants to benefit
23 residents and employers in the Upstate of South
24 Carolina. It has granted over $14 million for
25 higher education. Those dollars are at work today
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1 in the Upstate, improving the lives of South
2 Carolina citizens and helping us improve the
3 competitiveness of business and industry through
4 workforce development.
5 Through AdvanceSC, our institution alone --
6 Greenville Technical College -- has received $4.3
7 million. These grants have enabled us to expand
8 our welding program, introduce a manufacturing
9 readiness program, implement a registered
10 electrician apprenticeship program, and develop and
11 deliver a program in hands-on manufacturing for
12 wind engineers.
13 Of the more than $4 million received by
14 Greenville Tech, $2.7 million was for projects done
15 in collaboration with sister technical colleges in
16 the Upstate. Working together, these five colleges
17 have developed a world-class mechatronics
18 curriculum, upfitted labs at all five colleges,
19 provided professional development for our cadre of
20 mechatronics instructors at the colleges, and in
21 the past year the five-college collaboration
22 launched a campaign called Dream It, Do It aimed at
23 interesting young people in careers in
24 manufacturing. The Upstate is blessed with strong
25 manufacturing assets that allow us to compete in
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 115
1 the global marketplace, and it's critical that we
2 continue to attract qualified young people into the
3 careers needed to support manufacturing here in
4 South Carolina.
5 The ability for the Upstate to continue to
6 attract new industry to our area and to support
7 expansion of current business is highly dependent
8 on how well we develop a skilled workforce. Duke
9 Energy, through AdvanceSC, has been an important
10 partner for the technical colleges in this effort.
11 Additionally, early this year, Duke Energy donated
12 $4.1 million to the Center for Workforce
13 Development at Clemson University. That fund will
14 be shared by a number of higher-educations across
15 the Duke South Carolina service area, including
16 Greenville Technical College, to make more readily
17 available degree and certificate programs that will
18 help expand South Carolina's manufacturing
19 workforce. Plans for specific activities are being
20 finalized.
21 Duke Energy has shown its support of higher
22 education that leads directly to a stronger economy
23 in South Carolina.
24 I thank you for your time. I have copies, if
25 the Commissioners would like it.
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1 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Thank you. Yes, sir, if
2 you'd present any information to the court
3 reporter? Thank you, sir.
4 [WHEREUPON, the witness was excused.]
5 [Witness sworn]
6 THEREUPON came,
7 R E V . P H I L I P A . P A R I S , S R . ,
8 who, having been first duly sworn, testified as follows:
9 WITNESS: Phil Paris from the upper state up
10 here, blue ridge.
11 Duke Power or Duke Energy -- I'm just going to
12 say "Duke" -- has a lot of mismanagement failures.
13 They bought Nantahala in North Carolina, Carolina
14 Power & Light, also Cincinnati Power & Light, and
15 failed. Lost a lot. Lost their goose, when they
16 done it. We are not supposed to pay for their
17 losses.
18 They've done away with all of our facilities
19 where you could pay your bill. All over
20 Greenville, they got the buildings rented out.
21 They've done away with that. I thought that -- I
22 know that Greenville Tech is well respected, but
23 our lottery is supposed to be taking care of a lot
24 of stuff.
25 VOICES: Yeah.
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1 WITNESS: Maybe it's not.
2 VOICES: Yeah.
3 WITNESS: Anyway, we've got a lot of people, a
4 lot of older folk that's going to die because of
5 the heat on account of this weather.
6 VOICE: Amen.
7 WITNESS: A lot of people cannot feed their
8 grandkids, or whatever, a pan of cornbread because
9 they can't afford to cook it. It's too high. It's
10 got out of hand.
11 Anyway, we've been around for a long time.
12 Maybe we should charge Duke for all their posts
13 that they've got thousands all over our property
14 and our community. How would that suit them, at 16
15 percent? We cannot follow this trail. I don't
16 care what we do or whatever, but they cannot go up
17 on this anymore.
18 I deal with a lot of people and I know what
19 I'm talking about. This power bill right here
20 [indicating] is the least power bill in my place.
21 It's for $11 for a one-month power bill for a well
22 pump. If anybody wants to try to pay this bill on
23 the phone to Duke Power directly, you pay a $12
24 service charge extra. Everybody paying a bill pays
25 a dollar and a half [$1.50] June 1st, it went into
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1 effect at some of these little 7-11 stores, or
2 whatever; you have to pay that or you can't pay
3 your bill. Any business -- a little place up here
4 that I've got for the older folks; my power bills
5 runs $2,400 a year for five days a week. I can't
6 keep paying it. How can I pay it? Most people are
7 having to borrow money, cash checks, check their --
8 get their borrowed money, get title on their
9 things, just to pay it through the months. Got a
10 lady that lives close to me; she's 82 years old.
11 Draws very little. Two-room mobile home. Her
12 power bill in the cooler weather, or cold weather,
13 was $135, plus their famous late charge. People
14 cannot keep paying all of this stuff that they're
15 sticking to you, and we have got to stand up and do
16 something about it, because it's gone far enough.
17 I can't help -- and they was able to send hundreds
18 of thousands over to the Philippines -- and I won't
19 call any name -- from the Duke Foundation, or
20 whatever. Now, I might be misrepresented there
21 because I don't want to call any names, but that
22 was done to the de Marco family several years ago.
23 So there are some things. We had some
24 literature from Mr. [name indiscernible] that was passed out
25 tonight. He's pretty sharp on --
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1 [3-minute alarm]
2 -- this mismanagement. And I want to thank
3 you for your time. Thank you for coming to
4 Greenville.
5 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Thank you, sir. Thank you
6 for being here.
7 [Applause from audience]
8 [WHEREUPON, the witness was excused.]
9 MR. DONG: Rex O'Steen and Ruby Rosado?
10 Rex O'Steen?
11 MR. O'STEEN: Right here.
12 MR. DONG: And Ruby Rosado?
13 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: She's coming.
14 [Witness sworn]
15 THEREUPON came,
16 R E X O ' S T E E N ,
17 who, having been first duly sworn, testified as follows:
18 WITNESS: My name is Rex O'Steen. I live at
19 441 Henderson Road, Greenville, South Carolina.
20 The first thing I did, because I've got stock
21 in Duke Energy, I wanted to look at it from the
22 standpoint of a financial analyst. I took my bill,
23 my power bill from May 2000, and I compared it with
24 the rate of increase in my power bill in May 2013.
25 So from 2000 to 2013, my power bill went up at a
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1 compound annual rate of 4.7 percent. But this rate
2 increase to me just seems unreasonable. Because
3 Duke spent $3.3 billion for capital improvements
4 doesn't mean the expenditures were either efficient
5 or effective. I think Duke has done a poor public-
6 relations job of trying to sell their rate
7 increase. I look at that as hubris.
8 Depreciation -- if they've already spent that
9 money, depreciation is supposed to already be
10 hitting their books, so they should be having to
11 see the -- be paying the effects of that spending
12 right now. So what I did, I said, "If I've got a
13 business and I get $1 of money to invest in my
14 business, how much more profits am I going to
15 make?" From 2008 to 2010, I did a model to see how
16 much money in new debt is adding to Duke's
17 stockholder equity. $1 of new debt in 2008
18 increased stockholder equity 12 percent. After the
19 merger where Duke's assets doubled, just about, the
20 recent merger, their 2012 financial statement, $1
21 of new debt increased stockholder equity 50
22 percent. So Duke has gotten much more profitable
23 after the merger. So, my -- and another thing
24 that's happened after the merger is Duke's debt has
25 gone up. So Duke is not only getting bigger but
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1 the debt-equity ratio has gone up.
2 So I'm opposed to it from the standpoint of
3 those two numbers: the rate of increase, 4.7
4 percent, is what that -- from 2000 to 2013, and now
5 they want to go up on it.
6 The other thing I've heard them talk about is
7 that South Carolina's rates are lower than the
8 nation. Well, that's like comparing America's per
9 capita medical expenses with Mexico. The average
10 person in American spends $8,200 a year for medical
11 bills; in Mexico, its $962. The life expectancy in
12 America's only one year greater for men and women
13 than in Mexico. So to say our rates are lower than
14 the national average is like saying we should --
15 that Mexico should go up on their health-care
16 costs.
17 South Carolina is a poor state. Greenville
18 County's rate of growth is only ½ percent a year --
19 excuse me -- yeah, Greenville County's only
20 ½ percent a year. We're a poor state.
21 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Yes, sir. The Applicant
22 -- does the company have any questions?
23 MS. SHAFFIK-HORTON: No, sir.
24 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: ORS, any questions?
25 MS. C. EDWARDS: No, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.
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1 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Thank you. Commissioners,
2 any questions?
3 [No response]
4 Thank you, sir, for being here.
5 [Applause from audience]
6 [WHEREUPON, the witness was excused.]
7 [Witness sworn]
8 THEREUPON came,
9 R U B Y R O S A D O ,
10 who, having been first duly sworn, testified as follows:
11 WITNESS: My name is Ruby Rosado, and
12 Crestfield Road, Greenville, South Carolina.
13 I'm a taxpayer, a recently retired senior
14 citizen, and right now I'm having to choose between
15 buying nutritional food and paying the electric
16 bill. And it is difficult with the rates being
17 what they are right now. I choose to eat healthy.
18 Okay. I'm against this 16 percent bill
19 increase for many reasons. There are older
20 individuals in Greenville County that are members
21 of my church, and friends, who are staying in one
22 room in the wintertime, using a space heater to
23 keep warm -- and sometimes fires break out from
24 defective heaters. They spend lots of money trying
25 to get a heater that works well, just to keep them
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 123
1 warm in one room in a whole mobile home or in their
2 house.
3 Some members of my church are saying that if
4 these rate increases continue, they're going to
5 burn candles and just not use electricity. And I
6 believe some of them are really serious about that.
7 Please seek somewhere else to trim some
8 expenses rather than put this on the backs of
9 already suffering consumers. And that's really all
10 I have to say.
11 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Thank you, ma'am.
12 [Applause from audience]
13 Ma'am? Ma'am? If you'll wait, we might have
14 some questions.
15 Company, any questions?
16 MS. SHAFFIK-HORTON: No questions.
17 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: ORS, any questions?
18 MS. C. EDWARDS: Just one.
19 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Certainly.
20 CROSS EXAMINATION
21 BY MS. C. EDWARDS:
22 Q Could you repeat your address?
23 A 733 Crestfield Road, Greenville, South Carolina 29605.
24 MS. C. EDWARDS: Thank you.
25 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Commissioners, any
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 124
1 questions?
2 [No response]
3 Thank you, ma'am, for being here.
4 [WHEREUPON, the witness was excused.]
5 MR. DONG: Seldon Peden and John Arnold?
6 [Witness sworn]
7 THEREUPON came,
8 S E L D O N P E D E N ,
9 who, having been first duly sworn, testified as follows:
10 WITNESS: My name's Seldon Peden. I live at
11 10 Knox -- K-n-o-x -- Street, Greenville, South
12 Carolina 29605.
13 My name is Seldon Peden, and I am the board
14 chairman for SHARE, which is our local community
15 action agency, which serves Greenville, Anderson,
16 Pickens, and Oconee Counties. As part of our
17 mission, we provide assistance for utility bill
18 payment to our customers, the vast majority of
19 which, those bill payments, goes to Duke Energy.
20 Last year we served over 25,000 individuals;
21 80 percent of those were children, the elderly, and
22 the disabled.
23 So I stand here to speak on behalf of them and
24 ask this Commission not to approve this request for
25 a rate increase. In addition to heat and air, when
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 125
1 it comes to utilities for those we serve, we also
2 have to talk about asthma treatment for children,
3 oxygen machines for the elderly, about having to
4 choose between medication and food or this bill
5 payment. So we're asking, on their behalf: Please
6 deny it.
7 The reason for the rate increase, as marketed
8 to the public by Duke Energy, is simply, "We've
9 invested in infrastructure and power plants, and
10 now it's time for us to recoup that money that we
11 previously invested." The reason reported to their
12 investors is, after the merger, the cost per share
13 was diluted. So at the end of the merger, there
14 were 258 million shares of stock, when they merged
15 with Progress Energy. That had a dilutive impact of
16 41 cents per share. So as a way to make up those
17 losses, they seek to pass the cost on to us. They
18 state that this quarterly -- earnings for this
19 year: In addition to the earnings from Progress
20 Energy, favorable weather, and revised customer
21 rates for Duke Energy of South Carolina, these
22 drivers help mitigate the impact of share dilution
23 from the merger and less favorable results from the
24 company's commercial power and international energy
25 sales.
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 126
1 So where the two business units aren't doing
2 well and the merger diluted the share, they now
3 seek to pass those costs on to us.
4 And that's fine if you're selling watches.
5 But when there is no competition and when your
6 product is a necessity, we ask that you consider
7 lives and livelihood in that equation. So not only
8 where the shares were diluted and not only where
9 you had business units doing bad, even where they
10 had US franchise electric and gas, had a $656
11 million segment of the income this year, compared
12 to last year, they still chose as a driver
13 increased pricing and riders principally related to
14 Duke Energy Carolinas in February 2012. So whether
15 they're doing good or whether they're doing bad,
16 the public is asking not to have to pay the price
17 for their business decisions, whether good or bad.
18 Thank you, very much.
19 [Applause from audience]
20 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Sir. Sir? We might have
21 questions. Company, any questions?
22 MS. SHAFFIK-HORTON: [Shaking head.]
23 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: ORS?
24 MS. C. EDWARDS: No.
25 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Commissioners?
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1 COMMISSIONER WHITFIELD: Mr. Chairman?
2 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Commissioner Whitfield.
3 COMMISSIONER WHITFIELD: Thank you, Mr.
4 Chairman.
5 EXAMINATION
6 BY COMMISSIONER WHITFIELD:
7 Q Thank you, Mr. Peden, for being with us tonight.
8 A Yes, sir.
9 Q And thank you for your testimony. Could you give us any
10 insight into the demand for assistance for some of your
11 clients, during -- I know we've, of course, been in
12 recession years --
13 A Yes, sir.
14 Q -- but could you give us any recent or -- data on that?
15 A Absolutely. [Indicating.] Here we go. As of 2012,
16 when we put out the actual report, again, we had 25,000
17 families and individuals who are qualified for service
18 by meeting the poverty income level. So they're already
19 low-income. And of that 25,000, 80 percent, again, are
20 children, the elderly, and the disabled. So, those who
21 are in most need. So even after they qualify, we still
22 have federal and state restrictions which allow us to
23 help them one time per year. They have to provide
24 income; it has to be on an emergency basis. And when we
25 define "emergency," it again has to meet those statutes.
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1 So in order to receive our services, you have to
2 jump through many hoops. Then, after you jump through
3 the hoops, you only do it one time before coming back.
4 And so many times we see those who face that dilemma of,
5 "Do I pay for my medication now? Do I feed my children
6 now? Or how do I get through these cold winter months?"
7 Even when they can't afford the heat, our agency
8 provides fans, but we still need the power to help run
9 the fans.
10 So even when our customers are doing their best to
11 mitigate these costs and damages, it's still a big
12 burden. And we're just asking that the public and the
13 least of these not have to pay for what seems to be
14 almost a completely free -- free-market situation. So,
15 we certainly want you to consider those situations as
16 you make your decision.
17 COMMISSIONER WHITFIELD: Thank you, sir.
18 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
19 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Thank you. Thank you,
20 very much, sir.
21 WITNESS: Yes, sir. Thank you.
22 [WHEREUPON, the witness was excused.]
23 MR. DONG: John Arnold? And Donald Cuddihee?
24 [Witness sworn]
25 <
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1 THEREUPON came,
2 D O N A L D F . C U D D I H E E , S R . ,
3 who, having been first duly sworn, testified as follows:
4 WITNESS: My name is Donald F. Cuddihee, Sr.
5 My address is 305 Middlebrook Court, Greer, 29650.
6 I was here last November 29, 2011, and the
7 result was a 7 percent increase. And I assume that
8 we're going to be back again. Unfortunately, I
9 have more questions than answers. And the
10 questions aren't -- I don't expect they'll be
11 answered tonight, but they are simply food for
12 thought. They cast a shadow over this rate
13 increase.
14 What's happened to Duke Power since the last
15 rate increase? Well, it became the largest
16 provider of energy in the United States, with 7.1
17 million customers after a merger with Progress
18 Energy on July 2, 2012, for $13.7 billion.
19 Now, was this a successful merger? There were
20 murky details and resignations that clouded that
21 picture.
22 Did we finance, with our rate increase, that
23 merger? How does the Commission evaluate the
24 success of this merger? And what is the status of
25 the transmission upgrades ordered in order for the
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 130
1 merger to take place?
2 Another question hanging out there is Brazil
3 power sales. How does this affect our rates?
4 There's proposed construction of three nuclear
5 power plants: one near Gaffney, Raleigh, and in
6 the State of Florida. Presently there are six in
7 the Carolinas and one in Florida.
8 South Carolina ratepayers finance upfront
9 costs of nuclear power plants, by law. Not in
10 North Carolina, however. How does this affect
11 their rates? This is a complete wonderment to me,
12 because nuclear power plants can't get rid of the
13 waste that they produce, and by their nature they
14 are dangerous. And you can almost count on an
15 overrun in their construction.
16 There is a power merger program, of which I am
17 a member, that started in June of '83 at $15,
18 approximately, per HVAC unit. That changed in '96
19 and was lowered to $8 flat, no matter whether you
20 have one unit or two.
21 [3-minute alarm]
22 My goodness, time did fly.
23 [Laughter]
24 I want to say, though, that this summer I ran
25 my thermostat at 78 degrees, this winter at 63
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1 degrees, and I can't make any more changes.
2 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Sir? Sir.
3 [Applause from audience]
4 We might have some questions. Company?
5 MS. SHAFFIK-HORTON: No.
6 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: ORS?
7 MS. C. EDWARDS: No, no questions.
8 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Any questions from
9 Commissioners?
10 [No response]
11 Thank you, sir, for being here.
12 [Applause from audience]
13 [WHEREUPON, the witness was excused.]
14 MR. DONG: Bruce[sic] Taylor, Annette Christy,
15 and Bob Davis?
16 [Witness sworn]
17 THEREUPON came,
18 R O B E R T G . ' B U T C H ' T A Y L O R ,
19 who, having been first duly sworn, testified as follows:
20 WITNESS: Ladies and gentlemen of the Public
21 Service Commission, my name is Robert G. 'Butch'
22 Taylor. I reside at 1 Millbrooke Court,
23 Greenville, SC 29609.
24 I rise tonight to speak in opposition to the
25 proposed rate increase for Duke Energy. It would
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 132
1 be interesting tonight to see how many proponents
2 will rise to speak in favor of this rate increase.
3 I suspect very few.
4 In the current economic situation, I think
5 this rate increase is the most crass thing that
6 Duke Energy could do. It bespeaks of corporate
7 irresponsibility. An old gangly service-station
8 dealer friend of mine, at a national meeting years
9 ago, told me that a recession is when your
10 neighbor's out of work, and a depression is when
11 you are out of work. Many, many folks today are
12 suffering the throes of a depression.
13 Mind you, I'm not destitute and I'm not on the
14 street, but I'm working very hard to keep my head
15 above water. You can't go to the grocery store and
16 buy bread and milk with assets; you need money.
17 The more money I have to put in the pockets of Duke
18 Energy is the less money I can put into my pockets
19 for the basic essentials of such things as food and
20 shelter.
21 My little personal story: I'm very cognizant
22 of money and how necessary it is for survival.
23 When I was six years old, my dad died, and my
24 mother remarried two years later. We moved from a
25 little farm in Simpsonville to a little house above
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1 Wildcat -- above Marietta, behind Wildcat Grocery,
2 which is next to Mountain Lake Colony. Store's
3 gone now, but the little house is still there. If
4 you brought a sandwich for school lunch, you could
5 buy a pint of milk for a penny a day, and we
6 couldn't afford a nickel for milk for my school
7 lunch. We were so poor, we could not afford it.
8 So anyhow, we did not starve. We had shelter. But
9 it brought home to me the value of money.
10 Therefore, I object to most of the unnecessary
11 corporate spending by Duke [word(s) indiscernible] in the
12 areas, and the organizations that Duke Power
13 supports. And I think some of the current problems
14 that the Duke Energy operational capabilities has
15 to do is with onerous regulations imposed by the
16 federal EPA. In my opinion, I think Congress
17 should not reauthorize the funding for the EPA.
18 Then maybe Duke Energy could be lowering rates
19 instead of continually requesting rate increases.
20 I thank you for your attention and this
21 concludes my remarks, and I stand ready for any
22 questions.
23 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Thank you, sir. Company?
24 MS. SHAFFIK-HORTON: No questions.
25 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: ORS?
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 134
1 MS. C. EDWARDS: I would just emphasize that
2 we also have our Consumer Services Department
3 available, if you would like to talk with them.
4 Mr. Brad Kirby.
5 WITNESS: Thank you.
6 MS. C. EDWARDS: Thank you.
7 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Commissioners?
8 [No response]
9 Thank you, very much, sir, for being here.
10 [Applause from audience]
11 [WHEREUPON, the witness was excused.]
12 [Witness sworn]
13 THEREUPON came,
14 A N N E T T E C H R I S T Y ,
15 who, having been first duly sworn, testified as follows:
16 WITNESS: My name is Annette Christy. I
17 reside at 15 Country Lakes Road in Powdersville,
18 South Carolina 29642.
19 I have been studying the Duke website. And I
20 always find it very interesting to look at people's
21 mission statements. It's always been my experience
22 that, once a mission statement has been written, no
23 one looks at it again. And I would like to read to
24 you what Duke has said -- and this is under the tab
25 "Sustainability."
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1 "Now, more than ever, we have a responsibility
2 to produce and deliver energy to our customers
3 that's reliable, affordable, and increasingly
4 clean. That's where sustainability comes in. It's
5 more than a word at Duke Energy -- it's the key to
6 our success in the 21st century."
7 Now let's think about affordability here.
8 Well, first of all, I'm going to speak to the
9 senior citizens, because there are thousands in the
10 Upstate that have to depend on oxygen-producing
11 machines. A senior citizen also has very specific
12 out-of-pocket costs. Vision, dental, hearing --
13 none of that is covered on Part A, Part D, Part B,
14 Part C. It's all out of pocket. So these are
15 costs that they must endure, and then they have,
16 facing them, the additional cost of a rate
17 increase.
18 Let me continue with the mission statement.
19 "The decisions we make today that affect our
20 'triple bottom line' -- people, the planet, and
21 profits.." well, quite honestly, nobody has looked
22 at that mission statement, because we know Duke
23 Power has rearranged that to be profits, people,
24 the planet "-- will determine our long-term
25 prospects as a company. We see promising signs in
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 136
1 our performance, but a lot of work remains."
2 We, as John Q. Public, are really tired of
3 taking it in the chops and having to support major
4 corporations. We think it's time that corporations
5 should step up and help us. who have suffered so
6 much --
7 [Applause from audience]
8 -- in this great recession.
9 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Does the company have any
10 questions?
11 MS. SHAFFIK-HORTON: No.
12 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: ORS?
13 MS. C. EDWARDS: No, sir.
14 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Commissioners?
15 [No response]
16 Thank you, ma'am, so much for being here.
17 [Applause from audience]
18 [WHEREUPON, the witness was excused.]
19 [Witness sworn]
20 THEREUPON came,
21 B O B D A V I S ,
22 who, having been first duly sworn, testified as follows:
23 WITNESS: I'm Bob Davis. I live at 6 Setinel
24 Court, in Greer, South Carolina. And I do quite a
25 bit of research on issues. I feel, though, that
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 137
1 the Bible is the basis for our government, which
2 articles I've found states that the purpose of the
3 government is to promote Christianity. Today
4 that's a word that's banned from everywhere. And
5 you know the Bible says when the righteous are in
6 authority, the people rejoice, but when the wicked
7 beareth rule, the people mourn.
8 You know, wickedness comes in every human
9 heart until me meet the Lord. But we've got people
10 running Washington now -- Obama says that there are
11 many paths to heaven, and that's calling God and
12 Jesus a liar.
13 And I want to go to you and tell you some
14 things about Duke Energy. I found an article today
15 that says, "In early 2008, Duke Energy announced a"
16 new plan -- or, "a plan" rather "to build the new
17 800 megawatt Cliffside Unit 6 coal plant 50 [sic]
18 miles west of Charlotte, North Carolina. The plan
19 has been strongly opposed by environmental groups"
20 -- that's my point here -- "such as Rising Tide
21 North America, Rainforest Action Network" -- that
22 is a weather underground terrorist network. And
23 these people change their names all around.
24 Upstate Forever -- which we fought a battle in this
25 county for a few years now, to try to keep them
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 138
1 from doing what they want to do. But I want to go
2 further. "..the community-based Canary Coalition,
3 as well as Southern Environmental Law Center, which
4 has threatened to sue Duke if it does not halt
5 construction plans. On April 1st, activists locked
6 themselves to machinery at the Cliffside
7 construction area as part of Fossil" -- or, excuse
8 me -- "Fossil Fools Day." I can't even say it.
9 And then this article that I found deals with
10 the amount of money that a lot of the people at
11 Duke Energy have put into their coffers. For
12 example, here it talks about one man who -- let me
13 find the page, if I can [indicating] Well, anyway,
14 there was this one man who was a CEO for 20
15 minutes, and he got over $40-some million for that
16 20 minutes.
17 That's what we're facing, folks. It's
18 terrible, the amount of waste. But there's greed
19 in the human heart from both the left and the
20 right. And the left is duty-bound to bring about
21 Agenda 21. That's what I want to get to.
22 What's wrong with Agenda 21? There's a lady
23 out in California -- a Democrat, if you can believe
24 that, or not, who's got a website "Democrats
25 against the United Nations Agenda 21." And so this
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 139
1 one article says, "Why is everyone talking about UN
2 Agenda 21?" Another one says, "What's wrong with
3 sustainable development?" I'm going to read you
4 just a couple of little things here -- and I'm
5 having to really condense this. But it says,
6 "Considered unsustainable under a plan of the
7 sustainable development crowd," that's your liberal
8 left-wing people. Under this plan, middle-class
9 lifestyle, single-family homes, private vehicles,
10 meat eating, air conditioning, appliances, dams,
11 farming, you, and me -- that's the Agenda 21
12 crowd --
13 [3-minute alarm]
14 -- and they are honor- -- duty-bound through
15 Obama and his communist affiliates, and I --
16 VOICE: Aww.
17 WITNESS: I will not deny that he is a
18 communist.
19 VOICES: Lies. Lies.
20 WITNESS: And most people know it.
21 VOICES: Lies.
22 WITNESS: God help us. We need to get to the
23 word of God and have all these duty-bound people --
24 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Sir. Sir, if you would --
25 if you would, just state your main concern.
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 140
1 Please.
2 WITNESS: No, I'd like to say more.
3 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Well, no, sir.
4 WITNESS: I'd like to read --
5 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Sir. Sir.
6 WITNESS: This can make revolution --
7 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Sir.
8 VOICES: Time.
9 WITNESS: In this dramatic revolution --
10 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Sir.
11 VOICES: Time.
12 WITNESS: -- private property rights extends
13 to every facet of our lives.
14 VOICES: Time.
15 WITNESS: Education --
16 VOICES: Time.
17 WITNESS: -- energy --
18 VOICES: Time.
19 WITNESS: -- food --
20 VOICES: Time.
21 WITNESS: -- housing --
22 VOICES: Time.
23 WITNESS: -- and transportation.
24 VOICES: Time. Time. Time.
25 VOICE: Security.
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 141
1 WITNESS: Okay. Do you have any questions for
2 me?
3 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Do you have any questions?
4 MS. SHAFFIK-HORTON: [Shaking head.]
5 MS. C. EDWARDS: [Shaking head.]
6 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: No questions, sir.
7 [WHEREUPON, the witness was excused.]
8 MR. DONG: Cynthia Hyatt, John Wiebel, and
9 Antone Jones?
10 [Witness sworn]
11 THEREUPON came,
12 C Y N T H I A B . H Y A T T ,
13 who, having been first duly sworn, testified as follows:
14 WITNESS: My name is Cynthia Hyatt. I live
15 at --
16 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: [Indicating.] Could we
17 give attention? We want to hear everything that
18 everybody's saying.
19 So, if you would go ahead, please? Thank you.
20 If you'd -- that's it -- speak into the microphone.
21 Thank you.
22 WITNESS: My name is Cynthia Hyatt. I live at
23 26 Bear Grass Court, Greenville, 29605. I'm
24 president of Bear Grass Homeowners' Association,
25 which is representative of 27 residents that live
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 142
1 at Bear Grass Townhomes. We're a senior citizens'
2 community. We're solely managed, in that we take
3 care of all of our expenses, including our
4 services, insurance, landscaping. You name it, we
5 have to pay for it.
6 The residential rate increases Duke Energy
7 proposes are much like throwing pebbles into a
8 pond. The rippling effects of the increases hinder
9 all residents' ability to pay for other services
10 they need. Those who have opportunities to earn
11 incomes with pay raises and bonuses tolerate the
12 rate increases more easily. Those of us who live
13 on fixed incomes find it more and more difficult to
14 pay for these increases, regardless of how small or
15 great they are.
16 The current 16 percent rate increase Duke
17 Energy is proposing for the residents of Bear Grass
18 Townhome Community is comparable to a tsunami.
19 Each of our senior citizens will have to pay more
20 for their own electricity usage, plus the rate
21 increase will cost their homeowners' association
22 fees to have to absorb the cost of paying for the
23 increase in charges for the seven electric lights
24 used for our safety on our property. The globes on
25 those lights are obsolete. Recently, one globe had
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 143
1 to be replaced at an added cost of $7.45 each
2 month. When all seven are replaced, that comes to
3 $52.15 monthly. The total would be $625.80 for one
4 year. With a 16 percent rate increase of $100.13,
5 we would pay annually $725.93 just for the
6 replacement globes.
7 Now, add to that the 12 months of electricity
8 usage charges, then multiply that by the 16 percent
9 rate increase -- or whatever rate is approved.
10 Long story short, when we have to replace those
11 globes, our association has to pay for those
12 charges and electricity usage charges, as well as
13 any rate increases Duke Energy is granted. Then
14 the association has to raise our homeowners'
15 association fees. The tsunami of electricity cost
16 denies our senior citizens from using what money
17 they have to purchase other services and goods, and
18 those services and goods continue to have increases
19 in costs.
20 Is it any wonder why our residents can only
21 afford to live in homes which range in price from
22 $33,000 to $65,000? How many Duke Energy
23 executives or South Carolina Public Service
24 Commissioners would like to trade places with us?
25 Duke Energy has already received several rate
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 144
1 increases since the year 2000. It is suggested
2 that Duke stop spending so much on advertising and
3 stop sending the My Energy Home Report reminders
4 each month on how to save energy. Also, remember
5 the lesson of Aesop's fable, The Fox and the
6 Grapes. Be careful of what you want.
7 [3-minute alarm]
8 It may not be what you needed, after all. In
9 other words, does Duke Energy need another
10 residential increase? Residents living on fixed
11 incomes do not need this burden. We are doing the
12 best we can with what we have. Duke Energy needs
13 to follow suit with doing the best they can with
14 what they have, and not with what they think they
15 want.
16 [Applause from audience]
17 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Do you have any questions?
18 MS. SHAFFIK-HORTON: No, sir.
19 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Any questions from ORS?
20 MS. C. EDWARDS: No questions.
21 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Commissioners?
22 [No response]
23 Thank you, very much, for being here, ma'am.
24 [WHEREUPON, the witness was excused.]
25 <
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 145
1 [Witness sworn]
2 THEREUPON came,
3 J O H N W I E B E L ,
4 who, having been first duly sworn, testified as follows:
5 WITNESS: My name is John Wiebel. I live at
6 105 Mansion Circle, down in Piedmont, South
7 Carolina, and the ZIP Code is 29673.
8 Now, this is the third time I've come before
9 y'all. Ms. Lib, you've been chairman. Sir, you
10 were very nice last year. And I wonder who is it
11 going to be next year?
12 But I heard a little preaching from Greenville
13 Tech -- they sent a preacher in here -- and my
14 friend right here. But I think y'all got to
15 understand that you got to give Caesar his before
16 you can get yours. That's what we're talking
17 about.
18 Now, if Duke Power would have been given
19 everything they've been asking for, just from 2010,
20 without an increase in 2011, it would have amounted
21 to a 73 percent increase. This little fuzzy math
22 by Senator Fair's representative in here is nowhere
23 near the truth.
24 Now, they are the most irresponsible for
25 corporate spending. They dream up ways. They've
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 146
1 elected them a governor in North Carolina. But
2 their attorney general is going to fight for them
3 when they try and raise their rates. And then
4 their Supreme Court overturned the rate that they
5 gave them last year.
6 Now, in South Carolina, what we've got here is
7 we've got Duke Power using the northern border of
8 Catawba, Wateree, Broad River basin to generate
9 free electricity. They own Keowee, Jocassee, and
10 Bad Creek on the other side of our state.
11 I want to know who sold my rivers and my lakes
12 to Duke Power.
13 VOICE: Right.
14 WITNESS: Has anybody got a bill of sale in
15 here?
16 Now, I am in the American Legion and a
17 disabled veteran. And I want y'all to just bear
18 with me for one second. We lost a South Carolinian
19 from Beech Island in Afghanistan last week. And if
20 y'all would kindly give one moment of silence for
21 that soldier, I would appreciate it.
22 [Brief pause]
23 I thank y'all for that.
24 Now, Duke Power has a plant in Indiana that's
25 three times over [word indiscernible]. That ain't
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 147
1 generating power for us. They got their name
2 inside the Cincinnati Reds Baseball Stadium. That
3 ain't generating no power. Changing their logo on
4 every letterhead and every truck, on every car, and
5 the pins I see Larry Boyd wearing in here -- it's
6 our money.
7 VOICE: Right.
8 WITNESS: Millions. The man who did the
9 Progress Energy deal walked away with tens of
10 millions of dollars, and they're talking about they
11 want $220 million. $207 a year, for us. I'm on
12 fixed income. I only got a 1.7 percent increase
13 last year. Ain't that what they should be held to?
14 VOICES: Yeah.
15 VOICES: That's right.
16 WITNESS: Now, what'd your all's Medicare
17 premiums do? Where'd they go? They went out of
18 sight. Did you get a $207 increase last year? No,
19 you did not. Neither did I. Neither did my
20 brothers-in-arms -- and I see many of you out here.
21 Now, this is the deal.
22 [3-minute alarm]
23 Before this thing is over with -- and you can
24 see that thing there -- I want legislator time,
25 because no legislator in here is any better than I
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 148
1 am. So I'm going to ask for one more minute.
2 Y'all bear with me one more minute. The problem
3 with Duke Power is -- and I'm glad some of our
4 money went back to Greenville Tech. And Clemson.
5 Sounds good, looks good on paper, but it does not
6 have anything to do with generating electricity.
7 You saw them on TV, and we've got a
8 shareholder in here. I appreciate you running all
9 those commercials on how your company has come
10 forward in time, and using all this technology.
11 VOICE: Halleluiah.
12 WITNESS: But up at Cliffside, you just built
13 the largest coal-fired plant in the United States.
14 Now why we have to put up with -- y'all want to
15 come out here with me? You hear this right here
16 [indicating] That's their coal dust in my throat,
17 in the shape of ozone pollution.
18 Now, I'm not a tree-hugger, as such. But I
19 didn't defend this country and give up my health to
20 have Duke Power pick me like a chicken and pack us
21 all up, put us in a box, hope we go away. But I
22 just want to know: Will they be back next year?
23 VOICES: Yes.
24 WITNESS: Do you feel like they'll be back
25 next year?
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 149
1 VOICE: Yes.
2 WITNESS: Now they didn't come in 2011, but
3 they were here last year, they're here this year.
4 So I want y'all to agree with me, and please let
5 the Commission know that they should not get 1
6 percent more than any of us on fixed incomes or
7 veterans' benefits, and the working poor. The man
8 with SHARE back there, he forgot to mention it.
9 We've got working poor. We've got people working
10 for a living that still need assistance. Don't we?
11 VOICES: Yes.
12 VOICES: That's right.
13 WITNESS: So don't we think that Duke should
14 be withheld to 1.7 percent?
15 VOICES: Yes.
16 WITNESS: Then that's what they should get.
17 Thank you, Commissioners.
18 [Applause from audience]
19 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Thank you. Any questions?
20 MS. SHAFFIK-HORTON: No.
21 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: ORS?
22 MS. C. EDWARDS: No.
23 WITNESS: I thank you for letting me take an
24 extra minute of your time.
25 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Any questions from the
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 150
1 Commission?
2 [No response]
3 Thank you, sir, for being here with us.
4 WITNESS: I appreciate it very much, sir.
5 [Applause from audience]
6 [WHEREUPON, the witness was excused.]
7 [Witness sworn]
8 THEREUPON came,
9 A N T O N E J O N E S ,
10 who, having been first duly sworn, testified as follows:
11 WITNESS: My name is Antone Jones. I live at
12 155 Ridge Road, Apartment 406, Greenville, South
13 Carolina 29607. How you doing, Mr. Commissioner?
14 The things I'm having a problem with, I'm two
15 months late on my rent, and Duke Power told me I
16 have to pay a $200 deposit. I don't think that
17 this is fair; I think that it's wrong. I make
18 $19,000-and-change. I've got two kids. I'm a
19 single father. And I believe Duke Power make all
20 this money, and like this man who came first said
21 Duke Power gave Greenville Tech all this money. I
22 understand. Greenville Tech is a good school.
23 What's Duke Power doing for us? They ain't doing
24 nothing for us. I've got a little boy right there;
25 he's nine years old. I've got to pay rent, light
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 151
1 bill, daycare or after-school program, and my
2 insurance is going up.
3 I'm a bound man. I'm living paycheck to
4 paycheck. You have kids -- all y'all have kids.
5 Just think about if you were in my shoes. How will
6 you feel when Duke Power say, "Okay, let's go up
7 16.3"? I can't afford it. How will you feel if
8 you were in my shoes?
9 Duke Power -- who works for Duke Power? They
10 make $25-$30 an hour. They don't care. They got
11 plenty of money to pay their bills. I think it's
12 wrong. All these people right here 65 and up --
13 65 percent living on one check. Got to pay for
14 their medicine, their food, their insurance. What
15 you want them to do? What, get the lights out?
16 They've got to pay for their medicine. Medicine's
17 going up high. Insurance going up high.
18 We cannot allow Duke Power go back up 16.3.
19 If you allow that, it'll be a lot of people dead.
20 And guess what, Duke Power don't care. They really
21 don't care. They think -- you know who it'll be
22 on? The people who allowed Duke Power to do it.
23 When I called them people about they went up
24 $200 -- I have to pay a $200 deposit, they said
25 something about a past bill. I'm a single parent.
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1 It's a lot of people don't have jobs. Why Duke
2 Power allowing them to do? They don't care. They
3 don't care about you, anybody out there. If you're
4 standing here, if you want to wear our shoes, if
5 you're 65 and up and you live off one income, I
6 guarantee you'll feel how we feel.
7 Please don't let Duke Power go up. That's all
8 I'm asking. I got two kids. I can't afford them.
9 What you want me to do? Don't have no lights?
10 Then DSS take my kids. That's the only thing I
11 have. I make $19-and-change. Please don't let
12 Duke Power go up. I have nothing else to say.
13 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Thank you.
14 [Applause from audience]
15 Any questions?
16 MS. SHAFFIK-HORTON: [Shaking head.]
17 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: ORS, any questions?
18 MS. C. EDWARDS: Mr. Chairman. Mr. Jones, if
19 you have a few minutes, I'd like for you to talk to
20 Mr. Brad Kirby about the deposit.
21 WITNESS: Okay.
22 MS. C. EDWARDS: If you have a few minutes,
23 he's right there --
24 WITNESS: Which one?
25 MS. C. EDWARDS: -- [indicating]
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 153
1 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Yes, sir, would you wait
2 one second? Commissioners, any questions?
3 Commissioner Fleming.
4 EXAMINATION
5 BY COMMISSIONER FLEMING:
6 Q Thank you for being here tonight. When you made the
7 call about your bill, do you remember who you contacted?
8 A I called the people -- about the bill, the 1-800 number.
9 I asked them why the $200 deposit on my bill. They told
10 me I'm two -- two -- I'm two months late. Okay? Two
11 times your bill, you have to pay a $200 deposit. I
12 think that's wrong. Dead wrong. They said somebody in
13 Columbia passed the bill saying Duke Power got the right
14 to do that.
15 And another thing I forgot to tell you. They're
16 very disrespect. They don't care about nobody. Because
17 when I asked -- I told them to give me a time to come up
18 with the money, they said they had the 24th. I got two
19 kids. They didn't care.
20 VOICE: That's right.
21 WITNESS: I had to borrow it from my brother
22 in Houston, Texas. I hate to ask people for money,
23 because -- what else I'm supposed to do. When you
24 call them and tell them give you more time, they
25 will not.
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1 BY COMMISSIONER FLEMING:
2 Q And was this Duke -- did you call Duke Energy --
3 A Yes, ma'am.
4 Q -- or Columbia?
5 A No, I called Duke Energy.
6 Q Okay.
7 COMMISSIONER FLEMING: Okay. Thank you.
8 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Any other questions?
9 [No response]
10 Thank you, sir. Thank you for being here.
11 [Applause from audience]
12 [WHEREUPON, the witness was excused.]
13 MR. DONG: Theo Mitchell, Seth Powell, Traci
14 Fant?
15
16 [Witness sworn]
17 THEREUPON came,
18 T H E O W. M I T C H E L L ,
19 who, having been first duly sworn, testified as follows:
20 WITNESS: My name is Theo Walker Mitchell. I
21 reside at 522 Woodland Way, Greenville, South
22 Carolina 29607.
23 I want to thank this Honorable Commission for
24 taking the time to come and visit us, be with us,
25 and listen to us, in regards to those of us who are
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 155
1 irate, at least up until this moment, at the
2 arrogance of Duke Energy seizing 16 percent rate
3 increase.
4 I'm a former member of the Legislature, and I
5 spent a number of years down there. And I'm trying
6 to think back over when did I ever find the PSC
7 denying at least a partial rate increase from Duke?
8 My memory is dim, because as always it's something
9 they've always asked for astronomical because they
10 know they can get geological.
11 VOICE: That's right.
12 WITNESS: They know they're going to get
13 something.
14 VOICE: Right.
15 VOICE: No.
16 WITNESS: This is the most greedy, arrogant,
17 nasty, energy monopoly that we have ever had.
18 [Applause from audience]
19 And they take advantage of us because they are
20 a monopoly, and that we are dependent upon them.
21 It's most unconscionable, most -- in my opinion --
22 unjust, and certainly unrealistic. When is enough
23 going to be enough for this crowd?
24 VOICE: Never.
25 WITNESS: Never, seemingly. You all are
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 156
1 basically new Commissioners. I never had the
2 opportunity to appear before any of you before.
3 And maybe it's because I've sat back and let
4 matters go on without having challenged some of
5 this nonsense. But we are not in a position to pay
6 for the negligence, the lack of maintenance of the
7 nuclear facilities out there in Oconee County, the
8 penalties that Duke has basically had imposed and
9 will have imposed. And all due respect for
10 Greenville Tech, all due respect for the
11 stockholders, Duke does not need the kind of money
12 that it continues throwing and lavishing in regards
13 to public education. And I certainly don't think
14 that -- and thanks to Mr. O'Steen --
15 [3-minute alarm]
16 -- that Duke can afford to continue the kind
17 of stock pay and options that it's paying in
18 regards to stockholders.
19 Thank you, very much.
20 [Applause from audience]
21 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Company, questions?
22 MS. SHAFFIK-HORTON: No questions.
23 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: ORS, any questions?
24 MS. C. EDWARDS: No questions. Thank you, Mr.
25 Chairman.
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 157
1 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Sir? Any Commissioner
2 questions?
3 [No response]
4 Thank you, very much, for being with us
5 tonight.
6 WITNESS: Thank you, gentlemen and ladies.
7 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Yes, sir.
8 [WHEREUPON, the witness was excused.]
9 [Witness sworn]
10 THEREUPON came,
11 S E T H P O W E L L ,
12 who, having been first duly sworn, testified as follows:
13 WITNESS: Ladies and gentlemen of the
14 Commission and of Greenville County, I am Seth
15 Powell. I live at 108 Andrews Street, and I'm
16 president of Greenville County Tax Association.
17 I have something to present to the Commission
18 tonight, the bulk of which is a petition containing
19 hundreds and hundreds of signatures of all the
20 fellow citizens who couldn't be here tonight, but
21 who also oppose this motion. Included is also a
22 chart and a graph. which illustrates that kilowatt-
23 per-hour rate as reflected on an actual consumer's
24 bill over the last five and a half years. Please
25 consider both.
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 158
1 When I was here last, less than two years ago,
2 I asked you to please imagine all those people who
3 would like to be here tonight but couldn't be. And
4 tonight, I'll make that same request. But I would
5 also like to describe those people to you, because
6 I've met them now and know who they are. Through
7 our petition drives and my going into neighborhoods
8 and on their doorstep, I've met people from all
9 walks of life and at all stages of life. I've met
10 people with the wind at their backs; I've met
11 people who are down and out; I met rich, poor,
12 middle class, from all ages and from all races.
13 I've met these people [indicating] essentially, and
14 people like them. And despite their differences,
15 they had things in common.
16 They've all said, "No. Please, no," to this
17 rate request. They say, "It's tough enough
18 already." "They just got one." "16 percent?"
19 Those are the things I've heard time and time
20 again. They didn't just want to say no; they all
21 asked why. Why does this have to happen now? The
22 small businessman asking why do things have to get
23 more expensive. A single mom asking why do things
24 have to get harder for me when I'm making ends
25 meet? And we're supposed to believe that all these
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 159
1 things happen because of an invisible hand or
2 invisible process. But that's not the case here.
3 We can see your hands. What will you do with them?
4 Could you not, with your hands, dismiss or delay
5 this case?
6 Commissioner Fleming, do you not have ears for
7 community need over corporate interest? I think
8 you do. We all hope that you do.
9 Commissioner Hall, give voice for what is
10 right. I promise that they can survive another
11 year or two without a rate increase.
12 All of you, please use your influence to put
13 the public first, as I know you've tried to do
14 before.
15 And one last thought, because I know I'm
16 running out of time. When I was in a neighborhood
17 over next to Monaghan Mill, in the shadow of the
18 mill, I met an old man, who, after expressing anger
19 about this rate increase request and being asked to
20 sign a petition, confessed that he couldn't write,
21 that he'd worked in the old days in the mill until
22 he was injured, and he received disability and now
23 Social Security. He couldn't write. But you know
24 he pays his power bill every month. And so that
25 man could not use his hands to voice his opposition
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 160
1 to this.
2 What we ask is that you use your voice and
3 your influence to do that for him. We ask the
4 Public Service Commission to put the public first.
5 I know there have probably been dozens and dozens
6 of people to serve on this Commission. And to be
7 honest, I couldn't name a single one. But I
8 promise if you'll stand with us this time, we will
9 remember you forever. And if you stand with us,
10 we'll stand with you. Please do what's right.
11 Thank you for your time.
12 [Applause from audience]
13 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Any questions?
14 MS. SHAFFIK-HORTON: No.
15 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Any questions from ORS?
16 MS. C. EDWARDS: No, Mr. Chairman.
17 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Any questions from
18 Commissioners?
19 [No response]
20 Thank you very much for being with us tonight.
21 And, yes, we'll make that part of the record, sir.
22 Thank you.
23 WITNESS: I have copies. I appreciate it.
24 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Sir, that will be marked
25 as Hearing Exhibit 2 and entered into the record
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 161
1 tonight. Thank you, sir.
2 [WHEREUPON, Hearing Exhibit No. 2 was
3 marked and received in evidence.]
4 [Witness sworn]
5 THEREUPON came,
6 T R A C I F A N T ,
7 who, having been first duly sworn, testified as follows:.
8 WITNESS: My name is Traci Fant. I reside at
9 211 Creektop Court, Greenville, South Carolina
10 29605.
11 And I first want to thank you all for coming
12 to hear our voices. To us, it's very important,
13 especially the leaders in the community, that we're
14 able to voice our opinions in front of an audience
15 such as you that can make a change for us, and make
16 a difference.
17 I'm married. I have four children. My
18 husband and I are gainfully employed. We make a
19 decent income together. Recently we did receive a
20 bill from Duke Power and it was $500 in addition to
21 our regular bill because of some late charges that
22 we had a couple of years ago. We didn't understand
23 this rate increase. My husband called about it,
24 and luckily, thankfully, we were able to pay it.
25 We all know that Duke Power is a monopoly. We
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1 all know that if we don't pay our light bills in
2 time, we will be without power. I don't stand here
3 to speak for myself and my situation. I stand here
4 to speak for the countless numbers of single
5 parents, the countless numbers of college students
6 who are struggling to buy books and do different
7 things for their day-to-day process, the countless
8 numbers of elderly people such as my own mother who
9 lives on a fixed income, who has to not only rely
10 on the government's help but also me and my brother
11 and my sister who have to help her from time to
12 time pay her bills. I stand here for the
13 community, basically to ask, because I visit a lot
14 of homes in the community. I know a lot of people
15 who go without power throughout the wintertime, who
16 do heat their house with a kerosene heater, who do
17 live by candlelight. I know a lot of people who,
18 in the summertime, don't have AC. They don't even
19 have fans. They open a window and everybody tries
20 to catch a breeze. This is our reality.
21 I don't really know what you go home to. And
22 this is not even what I go home to, thankfully.
23 However, I know that many people, including a lot
24 of my friends and a lot of people that I know, a
25 lot of relatives, have to depend on the fact that
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 163
1 people like me will stand before people like you
2 that can make a decision that can make a difference
3 in our lives.
4 So I ask that you do not increase the rates,
5 because it will not only affect me but it will
6 affect the entire community. Thank you.
7 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Thank you, ma'am.
8 [Applause from audience]
9 Ma'am? Any questions?
10 MS. SHAFFIK-HORTON: No questions.
11 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Any questions of ORS?
12 MS. C. EDWARDS: Yes, Mr. Chairman.
13 CROSS EXAMINATION
14 BY MS. C. EDWARDS:
15 Q Ms. Fant, when did the $500 late charge occur?
16 A It was 30 days ago.
17 Q Thirty [30] days ago?
18 A Last month.
19 Q Would you mind talking, if you have a few minutes, to
20 Mr. Brad Kirby?
21 A Okay.
22 MS. C. EDWARDS: Thank you.
23 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Commissioners, any
24 questions? Commissioner Fleming.
25 COMMISSIONER FLEMING: I don't have a question
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1 right now, but, Mr. Chairman. I just wish we could
2 give the information out, as to the number to call
3 when complaints occur?
4 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Absolutely. Could ORS
5 give us your 800 number again, please?
6 MS. C. EDWARDS: Sure.
7 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: To the entire public here?
8 MS. C. EDWARDS: Okay. Sure. The 800
9 number --
10 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: This is the 800 number you
11 call at ORS. And for all of you in the audience,
12 ORS intervenes in our hearings. They will be
13 intervening for the public's behalf in the hearing
14 in Columbia. That's their job. And she's going to
15 relay you now a 1-800 number that you can call and
16 express any problems that you have. If you would.
17 MS. C. EDWARDS: Sure. 1-800-922-1531. And
18 I'll repeat that one more time. 1-800-922-1531.
19 Our staff works, typically, 8:30 to 5. If you
20 don't have anyone -- if you don't reach anyone,
21 please leave a message and our Consumer Services
22 Department will call you back as soon as possible.
23 And again, if you have any questions, one of our
24 Consumer Services representatives is in the back:
25 Brad Kirby.
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1 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Thank you, Ms. Edwards.
2 And the company, I believe y'all have an 800
3 number, too, that people can call?
4 VOICE: Would she repeat that one more time?
5 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Sure. Would you repeat it
6 one time, Ms. Edwards?
7 MS. C. EDWARDS: Sure, be glad to. 1-800-922-
8 1531.
9 MS. SHAFFIK-HORTON: Duke Energy's customer
10 service number is 1-800-777-9898. 800-777-9898.
11 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Did everyone get those?
12 VOICE: Could you do it one more time?
13 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Yes. The last number?
14 Yes, would you repeat it one more time for us?
15 MS. SHAFFIK-HORTON: It's 800-777-9898.
16 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Okay.
17 MR. DONG: The next three names are Ben
18 Haskew, Kenneth Sercy, and Barbara Keeton.
19 [Witness sworn]
20 THEREUPON came,
21 B E N H A S K E W ,
22 who, having been first duly sworn, testified as follows:
23 WITNESS: My name is Ben Haskew. I reside at
24 102 Rapid River Trail, Greenville, 29615.
25 I'm with the Greenville Chamber of Commerce,
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 166
1 and I wanted to talk just a minute about economic
2 development in our region. I want to make it
3 clear, though, our organization is not taking a
4 position on the rate case. But as an economic
5 development professional, there are some things
6 that I think it's important that we state about
7 Duke's importance in the region, working with local
8 governments, organizations like the Chamber, and
9 others that are trying to bring high-quality jobs
10 to our region.
11 I do want to say thank you to the Commission
12 for coming tonight and listening to our citizens.
13 I think it's very important. These kinds of rate
14 cases, I know, are very complex, and obviously
15 you've got a period of time to look and listen to
16 all the information that will come from many,
17 before you make your final decision.
18 The impact of economic development in our
19 region is important in all of our work, and that's
20 not just in Greenville; it's across the whole
21 region. We are in what's described as one of the
22 high-growth areas on the I-85 corridor between
23 Atlanta and Charlotte. And Duke and their team
24 certainly have been partners with us through the
25 years, to work on projects that bring major job
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1 creation to our region. And today we are actually
2 working together on some high-impact
3 entrepreneurship projects that I think are going to
4 bring good-quality jobs to our area, as well.
5 Just as we need good roads, good air service,
6 good water and sewer infrastructure, we need,
7 certainly, reliable and sustainable energy as we
8 are doing our jobs to recruit new businesses to the
9 community. We just ask that you take all that into
10 consideration as you consider this case, going
11 forward.
12 We appreciate, again, you being here, and
13 thank you for the opportunity to speak.
14 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Thank you. Company, any
15 questions?
16 MS. SHAFFIK-HORTON: [Shaking head.]
17 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: ORS?
18 MS. C. EDWARDS: No, Mr. Chairman.
19 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Commissioners?
20 [No response]
21 Thank you so much for being with us. Thank
22 you, sir.
23 [WHEREUPON, the witness was excused.]
24 [Witness sworn]
25 <
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1 THEREUPON came,
2 K E N N E T H S E R C Y ,
3 who, having been first duly sworn, testified as follows:
4 WITNESS: Good evening, Commissioners. My
5 name is Kenneth Sercy. I am speaking on behalf of
6 the South Carolina Coastal Conservation League.
7 The address is 1001 Washington Street, Columbia,
8 South Carolina 29201.
9 We are speaking tonight to draw a connection
10 between rate increases, like Duke's current
11 request, and the fundamental drivers of those rate
12 increases. So, in general, that's utility capital
13 investments, and mainly power plants, transmission
14 distribution lines.
15 We have a process in South Carolina whereby
16 the Commission reviews utility applications for
17 capital investments and makes a determination as to
18 whether each particular investment is a prudent
19 one. And I'll refer to those reviews as
20 "certification proceedings."
21 The Conservation League sees a great
22 opportunity for South Carolina to complement these
23 certification proceedings with an expanded emphasis
24 on something called integrated resource planning.
25 And I'll call that "IRP," for short. IRP is
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1 related to certification but is broader in scope.
2 In a nutshell, IRP takes a longer-term portfolio-
3 level look at capital investment needs. So you're
4 not just looking at one isolated facility, like in
5 the certification proceeding; instead, you're
6 creating a high-level roadmap that then guides
7 those individual facility certifications.
8 Right now, we don't have much process related
9 to IRP in South Carolina. So our utilities file
10 their IRPs with the Commission each year, but there
11 isn't really any follow-up on that. And, in recent
12 years, as far as I'm aware, the only additional
13 action in these dockets is the Conservation League
14 -- along with some of our partners -- have actually
15 filed fairly lengthy, detailed, technical
16 commentary and recommendations on these utility
17 IRPs. But, again, there's no independent review;
18 there's no real concluding action in these dockets.
19 So, as I mentioned, there's an opportunity
20 there to beef up that process in South Carolina.
21 And I want to give one example -- and I'm wrapping
22 up. I want to give one example to help flesh out
23 why this is important. So, Duke's economic
24 modeling in its 2012 IRP estimated that boosting
25 energy efficiency programs would save customers
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1 about $5 billion in the coming decades. That's
2 "billion" with a "b." But Duke didn't choose that
3 resource plan; they chose a different resource plan
4 that they estimated was going to cost more money.
5 We don't think that Duke adequately justified that
6 decision, and we commented on that in our filings.
7 But, again, there's no follow-up there or
8 resolution to, you know, different perspectives on
9 these plans.
10 So, you know, there are probably different
11 ways to strengthen the IRP review in South
12 Carolina. We'd love to engage with Commission
13 staff, ORS, the utilities, other stakeholders on
14 how to strengthen this process. Bottom line is, we
15 think that complementing these certification
16 proceedings with a more robust IRP process will be
17 beneficial to both households and businesses in
18 South Carolina and will give them greater
19 confidence that, when a utility has to ask for a
20 rate increase, at least the increase has been
21 minimized to the greatest extent possible.
22 Thank y'all for the opportunity to speak, and
23 I'll be happy to take any questions.
24 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Thank you, sir. Company,
25 any questions?
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1 MS. SHAFFIK-HORTON: No.
2 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: ORS, any questions?
3 MS. C. EDWARDS: No.
4 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Commissioners?
5 COMMISSIONER FLEMING: Yes.
6 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Commissioner Fleming.
7 EXAMINATION
8 BY COMMISSIONER FLEMING:
9 Q Thank you for coming tonight. Can you give an example
10 of a state that -- of a program for the IRPs that you
11 think is a productive process, that achieves what you’re
12 talking about?
13 A Well, I'll give an example. Our immediate neighbors,
14 Georgia and North Carolina, they both actually hold
15 full-fledged evidentiary hearings on IRPs. So what will
16 happen for the rate increase here for Duke -- where you
17 have witnesses, evidence, testimony, and then
18 potentially a determination by the Commission -- they do
19 all of that for IRP in Georgia and North Carolina. So,
20 I mean, they take it that seriously.
21 Q So do you think that that has resulted in better rates,
22 more efficient use of the energy facilities, or types
23 of?
24 A We think that, in general, with more transparent IRP
25 processes, you are going to see better resource
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1 decisions and better investment decisions that are good
2 not just for Duke shareholders but for their customers
3 and for the environment, as well.
4 Q Okay. But, now, Duke is both in South Carolina and
5 North Carolina, and we both have approximately the same
6 rates and programs -- except for a renewable portfolio.
7 Right?
8 A Correct. But -- and so our IRP process applies to Duke,
9 Progress, and SCE&G.
10 Q So you are saying that you just like the transparency
11 and the buy-in by the Commission on the process; is that
12 correct?
13 A Yes, that's correct.
14 COMMISSIONER FLEMING: Thank you.
15 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Any further questions?
16 [No response]
17 Thank you, sir, very much, for being with us.
18 [WHEREUPON, the witness was excused.]
19 [Witness sworn]
20 THEREUPON came,
21 B A R B A R A K E E T O N ,
22 who, having been first duly sworn, testified as follows:
23 WITNESS: My name is Barbara Keeton. I live
24 at 9 Ardmore Drive, in Taylors, 21867.
25 I have with me here a jar. And in that jar
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 173
1 are a few coins. Once those coins are gone,
2 there's nothing left. That's what life is like for
3 senior citizens, for people who live on a fixed
4 income, or for the working poor. When it's gone,
5 it's gone. And for Duke to come forward and ask
6 for such a huge rate increase -- and let me say,
7 Duke asks for huge rate increases knowing they're
8 going to get smaller ones, but I think it's time
9 that the Public Service Commission says no. This
10 is a bad time, recession, and people are hurting.
11 I know of people who are working and are
12 getting their hours cut because Obamacare is fixing
13 to get kicked in, and businesses don't have the
14 money to pay for their health care. So now here
15 you've got people who are losing their money, jobs,
16 because of Obamacare, and then we have Duke Energy
17 who has screwed up their monies -- and it's not our
18 fault -- coming in and wanted us to cover their
19 butts. That's wrong.
20 Also I noticed -- I deliver Meals on Wheels,
21 through Prayer United Ministries. The food banks
22 are drying up, because people don't have money to
23 help their neighbors. They don't have any extra
24 money whatsoever. Children are going hungry during
25 the summer months because they get school lunches
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1 and school breakfasts during school terms, because
2 their parents don't have money.
3 People -- I've got a niece who works 40 hours
4 a week. She's known as the working poor. She has
5 diabetes. She's got one child. She's a single
6 parent. And she can't make ends meet. Her mother
7 and I have to help her out to make ends meet, just
8 for bare necessities. That's wrong. Cost of gas,
9 cost of food, taxes, Obamacare, all draining the
10 wallets of hard-working people, and yet Duke wants
11 another rate increase -- the third in four years.
12 I challenge Duke to be the bigger company and,
13 instead of increasing rates, show your
14 responsibility, your compassion, and your humanity,
15 and cut your rates. Hopefully, other companies
16 will --
17 [Applause from audience]
18 -- follow suit. It's time companies and, I'm
19 sorry, but public service commissions need to look
20 at the struggles that every hard-working person
21 here and in this State of South Carolina are going
22 through. They can't make ends meet. The bottom
23 line is, Duke wants more money, they have bonuses,
24 they get raises. When was the last time these
25 people got bonuses and raises? We are not getting
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1 money increases; we're getting money decreases. We
2 can't afford food, gas, insurance, healthcare.
3 When Obamacare --
4 [3-minute alarm]
5 -- kicks in, we all might as well just throw
6 in the towel.
7 VOICES: Amen.
8 WITNESS: And when Duke wants more money on
9 top of all this, when the jar is empty, there's
10 nothing left. Nothing. Thank you.
11 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Yes, ma'am. Company, any
12 questions?
13 MS. SHAFFIK-HORTON: No.
14 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: ORS?
15 MS. C. EDWARDS: No, Mr. Chairman.
16 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Commissioners?
17 [No response]
18 Thank you, so much, for being with us.
19 [Applause from audience]
20 [WHEREUPON, the witness was excused.]
21 MR. DONG: Robert Glenn, Jeff Stewart, Efia
22 Nwangaza? [Witness sworn]
23 THEREUPON came,
24 J E F F S T E W A R T ,
25 who, having been first duly sworn, testified as follows:
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1 WITNESS: My name's Jeff Stewart. I live at
2 310 Syracuse Road, Easley, South Carolina.
3 I am the president of LMS Holdings, and for
4 the last five years I've had the great opportunity
5 to work in Washington, DC, and help build the new
6 Capitol Visitor Center.
7 I guess my reasoning for speaking with you
8 today is I heard all these testimonies, and I'd
9 like to know why South Carolina isn't deregulated
10 for energy. There are six states currently today
11 -- excuse me, eight, with New York City, that just
12 came on-line, where we, the public, have to choose
13 energy or electric bills. We can outsource it. We
14 don't have to be stuck with Duke Power.
15 I'm pretty fortunate. I can pay my light
16 bill. I've had the opportunity to help other
17 people pay. But enough is enough. And I'd like to
18 know, if the District of Columbia can be
19 deregulated, why can't South Carolina? New York
20 City just came deregulated this past Friday. And
21 here we are, South Carolina, where people are
22 struggling. It's one of the unfortunately worst
23 states for employment, health. I love my state, so
24 I'm asking why can't South Carolina be deregulated?
25 Or if it is already in process, I would like to
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1 know.
2 That's the end of my questions.
3 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Thank you, sir. Company,
4 any questions?
5 MS. SHAFFIK-HORTON: No.
6 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: ORS, any questions?
7 MS. C. EDWARDS: No, Mr. Chairman.
8 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: And questions from
9 Commissioners?
10 [No response]
11 We do have some people in the room, with ORS
12 -- if they'd like to raise their hands again --
13 that can at least answer your questions.
14 WITNESS: Okay.
15 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: And I think one is in the
16 back, there.
17 WITNESS: Thank you.
18 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Yes, sir.
19 WITNESS: Okay.
20 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Thank you. Thank you for
21 being with us.
22 [WHEREUPON, the witness was excused.]
23 [Witness sworn]
24 <
25 <
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1 THEREUPON came,
2 E F I A N W A N G A Z A ,
3 who, having been first duly sworn, testified as follows:.
4 WITNESS: My name is Efia Nwangaza. I'm a
5 senior citizen living on a sorely inadequate fixed
6 income, here in Greenville, South Carolina. I'm
7 also the director of the Malcolm X Center for Self-
8 Determination, an unfunded, voluntary, grassroots
9 community organization serving low-income
10 communities.
11 Any Duke Power increase will strain my already
12 insufficient personal budget, but, more
13 importantly, it will deter donations from and
14 undercut efforts by those attempting to practice
15 the oft-demanded personal responsibility --
16 personal responsibility efforts through grassroots-
17 funded institution building and community service.
18 Further, any rate increase drives up the cost
19 of maintenance of private- and public-funded
20 community spaces -- Greenville Tech
21 notwithstanding, which serves less than 15,000
22 students and corporations which displace workers
23 with machines and technology, and supports others
24 that carry jobs abroad.
25 Further, it is time that the Commission put
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 179
1 back "public" into Public Service Commission, and
2 that the burden of the Commission's repeated
3 awards, borne by and lived by the public, be set
4 aside, and that we be allowed to live with dignity
5 if not with comfort. As former First Lady Nancy
6 Reagan would say, it's time for the Commission to
7 just say no.
8 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Ma'am? Ma'am, ma'am, we
9 might have some questions.
10 [Applause from audience]
11 Company, any questions?
12 MS. SHAFFIK-HORTON: [Shaking head.]
13 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Any questions from ORS?
14 MS. C. EDWARDS: No, sir.
15 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Commissioners, any
16 questions?
17 [No response]
18 Thank you, ma'am, for being with us.
19 [Applause from audience]
20 [WHEREUPON, the witness was excused.]
21 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: at this time, we're going
22 to take a 20-minute break for our court reporter
23 and others.
24 [WHEREUPON, a recess was taken from 7:42
25 to 7:58 p.m.]
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1 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Let me ask you to --
2 please, let's resume.
3 MR. DONG: Okay. Are we all back from our
4 break? If you could take your seats. I'm going to
5 call the next three names. Jan Williams, Malcolm
6 Helms, and Len Guthrie.
7 [Witness sworn]
8 THEREUPON came,
9 J A N W I L L I A M S ,
10 who, having been first duly sworn, testified as follows:
11 WITNESS: I'm Jan Williams. 6 Crabapple
12 Court, Greenville, South Carolina 29605. And I'm a
13 retired engineer from Milliken & Company, so I kind
14 of always deal in facts.
15 So, since January 2008, I've had a 28 percent
16 increase in my billing -- so that you all know the
17 facts. Also, you know, I checked things out and
18 found out that, you know, Duke has given way like
19 $45 million to different groups, charities, and et
20 cetera, you know, during the year. And, you know,
21 it seems like, wow. So, checking some of the
22 things out, Upstate Forever, you know, they give
23 like $2,500 and, you know, it's on their list.
24 Now, why would you give money to Upstate Forever
25 when they're pushing for carbon tax and trade which
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1 is going to increase my taxes, your taxes. It
2 doesn't make sense to me.
3 And, of course, the GADC Board of Directors,
4 which is the Greenville Area Development Corp., you
5 know, got $10,000 from Duke. Wow, that's pretty
6 good stuff.
7 And then, you know, checking other things, you
8 know, just going online, this was in 2011:
9 Matching gifts, leadership grant, and foundation
10 grants. You know, that was only $16 million. Wow,
11 that adds up. Ought to be able to do something
12 with that.
13 And, then, you know, in March of 2013, the
14 Huffington Post showed $10 million of a loan
15 forgiven to the Democratic National Committee, and
16 also an in-kind donation of $1.5 million to their
17 convention. Wow, the Democrats really like them.
18 January 2013, $4.1 million was given to
19 Clemson for workforce development. Another person
20 mentioned that earlier. You know, twice as much as
21 Greenville Tech.
22 I'm paying taxes to support that stuff. Why
23 should I be paying Duke Power also to do that
24 stuff? It doesn't make sense to me, because, you
25 know, being a choice supplier by government,
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1 monopoly -- anybody heard of "monopoly" before?
2 Yeah? -- you know, it should not be using money for
3 these kind of purposes. And so, our government
4 ought to say, "Hey, let's not do these things.
5 Let's not spend money wasting with those, because
6 you're trying to get some something," and I don't
7 know what that is. But, you know, businesses have
8 to work hard. There's no question about that. But
9 not only the money they're giving away, but, you
10 know, that doesn't include, probably, the
11 employees' money that they have to pay in medical
12 and all the other stuff that they have to pay for
13 those people doing those kind of things. That's a
14 lot of money.
15 So if there's any way that South Carolina
16 policy -- Service Commission can review that kind
17 of thing, then maybe make that as some sort of
18 thing, hey, $45 million? You know, that might help
19 reduce rates.
20 VOICE: That's right.
21 [Applause from audience]
22 Thanks for letting me share that.
23 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Thank you, sir. Company,
24 any questions?
25 MS. SHAFFIK-HORTON: No, sir.
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1 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: ORS?
2 MS. C. EDWARDS: No, Mr. Chairman.
3 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Commissioners.
4 Commissioner Whitfield.
5 COMMISSIONER WHITFIELD: Thank you, Mr.
6 Chairman.
7 EXAMINATION
8 BY COMMISSIONER WHITFIELD:
9 Q Mr. Williams, it's good to have you with us tonight.
10 Thank you for your testimony. One comment you made, you
11 mentioned your bill had gone up 28 percent since 2011.
12 Would you mind sharing what your bill is now with us?
13 Would you be willing to do that, what your current bill
14 is, or average?
15 A The form that I have here isn't the actual average on
16 those things, but it shows -- let me find that sheet
17 [indicating] -- that the kilowatt-hours on here --
18 let's see -- okay, the service as of 6/13, I paid for
19 the service only. That didn't include city fee and
20 stuff. $120.12.
21 Q And do you know what your average bill was in 2011?
22 A I don't have that on here, what that is -- you know,
23 what that happened to be at that time. They're all
24 individual numbers.
25 Q Okay. Would you like to leave that with the court
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1 reporter, that information, and let it go into the
2 testimony, or --
3 A Sure. If you can use information from that, that's
4 fine.
5 COMMISSIONER WHITFIELD: You want to --
6 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Yeah, we'll do that. Yes,
7 sir, we'll put it as part of the record. That'll
8 be -- we'll list it --
9 WITNESS: And, you know, what you're asking
10 for, though, is where I have down Duke Energy fees,
11 for me, what I'm paying, right?
12 COMMISSIONER WHITFIELD: Yes, sir.
13 WITNESS: Okay.
14 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: That will be listed as
15 Exhibit 3, and it will go in the file.
16 [WHEREUPON, Hearing Exhibit No. 3 was
17 marked and received in evidence.]
18 MS. C. EDWARDS: Mr. Chairman?
19 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Please.
20 MS. C. EDWARDS: Is there any confidential
21 information -- that is, consumer information --
22 that you want redacted from that?
23 BY COMMISSIONER WHITFIELD:
24 Q Your account number information, you want redacted?
25 A No, that -- no, I don't have any of that information on
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 185
1 there. You know, I just used a spreadsheet, put all the
2 information in there that I got off the bills, and just
3 kept it up.
4 Q Also, if I could, Mr. Williams, would you like to share
5 how your service has been the last couple of years with
6 Duke? Have you experienced any outages? How has your
7 service been?
8 A Overall, you know, Duke Power I think has been a good
9 company, okay? The only thing I've got a problem with
10 is spending all that extra money out there for different
11 things and then having to increase rates for people.
12 You know, like I said, to me, that's a fact that
13 probably doesn't need to be done, especially since they
14 are a monopoly. If they were an independent company and
15 not a monopoly, then I wouldn't, you know, make a
16 comment like that, because that's their total choice.
17 COMMISSIONER WHITFIELD: Yes, sir. Thank you
18 sir. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
19 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Thank you. Any other
20 questions?
21 [No response]
22 Thank you, sir, for being with us.
23 [WHEREUPON, the witness was excused.]
24 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Next?
25 MS. C. EDWARDS: Mr. Chairman, I apologize.
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 186
1 Just for clarification, what hearing exhibit was
2 that?
3 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: That was Hearing Exhibit
4 3.
5 MS. C. EDWARDS: Thank you.
6 MR. DONG: Malcolm Helms?
7 [No response]
8 Len Guthrie? And John Bakerfer[sic]
9 [Witness sworn]
10 THEREUPON came,
11 L E N G U T H R I E ,
12 who, having been first duly sworn, testified as follows:
13 WITNESS: My name is Len Guthrie. I live at 2
14 Webb Street, Greenville, South Carolina 29605.
15 I live in the Dunning community, which is the
16 old Dunning Mill. We just turned 100 years old.
17 But my problem, you know, just two years ago, and
18 guess what, we're right back here again with the
19 same scandal of Duke Power wanting more and more
20 and more.
21 You know, they provide our services. We ain't
22 got a choice; we've got to pay that bill. And they
23 never take into account for these people that can't
24 afford to pay power bills. You know, like during
25 the summertime, children are out of school. No
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 187
1 food, because they can't get it from school, so
2 their mom and dad can't get it in the community
3 because of the power bill.
4 Duke will not work with you on a power bill.
5 They're just like corporate greed. They don't give
6 you any opportunities. They tell you, "Go down to
7 SHARE." Go stand in line at SHARE with the other
8 couple of hundred people to try to get a power bill
9 paid.
10 So, you know, it's time to get real with Duke
11 Power and say, "No, you're not getting any more."
12 Today we came in the parking lot, pulled up
13 beside one of the Duke Power vehicles, and guess
14 what? Loaded out with a CD player, leather, fully
15 equipped, nice truck. They don't need nice
16 equipment like that. Let them do the way we have
17 to do -- drive old vehicles to get back and forth.
18 We have two vehicles in my family. One of them
19 almost 200,000 miles, the other one 160,000 miles.
20 We can't afford to go get a new vehicle because of
21 Duke Power, every time you turn around, y'all are
22 giving them more money. It's time to stop Duke
23 Power.
24 VOICE: Amen.
25 WITNESS: And I have a question -- and I hope
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 188
1 someone could answer this question. Last year, did
2 Duke Power give $10 million to the Democratic
3 Committee to go up to Charlotte, North Carolina?
4 VOICE: Yes.
5 VOICE: It was on the radio today.
6 WITNESS: I mean, get real now, people. What
7 in the world are y'all doing by giving Duke Power
8 more and more and more? Duke Power don't care
9 nothing about their customers except all they want
10 is more and more and more.
11 How many of their executives could they cut
12 out, and save that much money? I'm glad they give
13 money to Greenville Tech for the young people. Us
14 disabled vets, do we have any benefits? No,
15 because we're getting too old, according to
16 Greenville Tech. So why don't Duke Power give some
17 money to the food pantries, to the harvest section,
18 to help people that don't have food, that's living
19 on the streets, instead of y'all giving them more
20 money? It's time to rein Duke Power in and tell
21 them, "No more money." No more. No more. They've
22 had enough.
23 And thank you for letting me speak, and thank
24 y'all for coming to Greenville, and --
25 [3-minute alarm]
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 189
1 -- I welcome you all.
2 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Thank you, sir. Wait --
3 wait a moment. Company, any questions?
4 MS. SHAFFIK-HORTON: No.
5 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Any questions of ORS?
6 MS. C. EDWARDS: No. Thank you, Mr. Guthrie,
7 for speaking. And I know that you had already been
8 in contact with Allyn Powell in the back.
9 WITNESS: Yes.
10 MS. C. EDWARDS: Appreciate it.
11 WITNESS: Thank you, very much.
12 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: And are there any
13 questions from Commissioners?
14 [No response]
15 And I believe the company also has people
16 here. Raise your hands again, the ones that can --
17 so if you have any questions, you know, you can
18 feel free to ask these individuals. Thank you for
19 being with us.
20 WITNESS: Thank you.
21 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Yes, sir.
22 [Applause from audience]
23 [WHEREUPON, the witness was excused.]
24 [Witness sworn]
25 <
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 190
1 THEREUPON came,
2 J O H N U N K E F E R ,
3 who, having been first duly sworn, testified as follows:
4 WITNESS: My name is John Unkefer. 300
5 Redspire Drive, Greenville, 29617.
6 I'll probably run a little over the three
7 minutes, because what I've got tonight is financial
8 information regarding using their 10K, the
9 financial annual report for 2012. What I would
10 like to call Duke Energy Carolinas is the cash cow
11 of Duke Energy. Let me explain what I mean by
12 that.
13 Just so people are aware, Duke Energy spent
14 $2.1 billion this year to pay their dividends to
15 their stockholders. At the beginning of the year,
16 they had $2.3 billion in cash because of the
17 purchase or the merger of Progress Energy. They
18 got to spend about $700 million just on the fees
19 and the costs of getting that merger done. By the
20 end of the year, they ended up with $1.8 billion
21 left in their coffers. The good news, or the bad
22 news about that is $1.1 million -- or, billion of
23 that 1.8 is overseas or foreign money that is not
24 here in the United States. So what that means is
25 that Duke Energy only has $700 million left in
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 191
1 their cash account here in the United States.
2 With the merger with Progress, their debt went
3 from $20 billion up to $39 billion, which means
4 they more than doubled what their yearly interest
5 payments and current short-term debt payments will
6 be. They definitely need more cash. The problem
7 is they keep coming back to both Carolinas to get
8 the cash.
9 Energy Carolinas serves 2.4 million of the 7.2
10 million Duke electric retail customers, or 33
11 percent of their total customer base, but it
12 represents about 43 percent of the regulated
13 electric revenues, even though we only have 33
14 percent of the customers.
15 The problem, as I see it, after going through
16 their 10K and their financials, is that the
17 operating costs in the other Duke operations are
18 significantly, significantly higher than those of
19 Energy Carolina. Duke Energy Carolina represents
20 34 percent of Duke Energy total consolidated
21 revenue from 2012, but generated 49 percent of its
22 net income. It also generated about 41 percent of
23 the company's cash flow from operations.
24 Progress Energy, that they just bought,
25 actually had revenues of $2.7 billion more --
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1 [3-minute alarm]
2 -- than Duke Carolina, but their revenues --
3 or, their income was $468 million less than what
4 Duke Carolinas' were. Duke Carolina was $868
5 million where Progress was only $400 million. And
6 the reason for that is, when you get to the
7 financials and you look at it, their operating
8 expenses, as a percentage of their operating
9 revenue, is 10 percent higher than the Duke
10 Carolinas. Duke Carolinas' percentage of operating
11 expenses to operating revenue has been consistent
12 over the last three years at 77 percent. The
13 consolidated Duke overall is at 84 percent in 2012,
14 81 percent in '11, and 84 percent in '10.
15 Progress' consolidated last year, 2012, is 88
16 percent compared to the 77 percent of Duke Energy.
17 If they would have had their costs down at the 77
18 percent, like Duke Carolinas, they would have
19 generated another $825 million in cash.
20 The net income as a percent of operating
21 revenue, Duke Carolinas has consistently over the
22 last three years been at 13 percent net income --
23 that's after taxes, net income -- as a percent of
24 their revenues. Consolidated, Duke Energy is 9
25 percent for 2012, 12 percent for '11, and 9 percent
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 193
1 for '10. Progress' consolidated was 4.2 percent in
2 2012, 6.4 percent in '11, and 8.4 percent in 2010.
3 Cash flows for Duke Carolina have been
4 consistent -- right around $2 billion a year in
5 cash flow, even though their revenue is $3 billion
6 less than Progress. Progress' consolidated cash
7 revenue was only $1.8 billion last year, 1.6 the
8 year before, and in 2010, $2.5 billion.
9 Duke says they need the increase due to
10 capital expenditures' increases, but in reviewing
11 their 10K, capital spending has been pretty
12 constant over the last five years -- both
13 consolidated and Duke Energy Carolina. Capital
14 expenditures for Duke Carolina going backwards from
15 2012 and going back: $1.9 billion, $2.2 billion,
16 $2.2 billion, $2.2 billion, and in 2008, $2.4
17 billion. Total consolidated was $5.5 in 2012, but
18 that included six months' worth of capital spending
19 for Progress that they had just bought. Year
20 before that, 4.4, then 4.8, 4.3, 4.4. Also in
21 their 10K it states that their planned expenditures
22 for next year, or for the next few years is,
23 overall, $5.3 billion -- now this is for regulated
24 electric, not their total. It's $5.3 billion that
25 now includes Progress. 2014, $5 billion; 2015,
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 194
1 5.4.
2 So with them saying that they're having all of
3 these extended or additional expenditures, half of
4 it doesn't show up in either what they've spent in
5 the past or what they say they're going to spend in
6 the next three years. So I don't see how they can
7 say that they need more money from the Carolinas.
8 We are the cash cow because -- just another example
9 is that Duke Indiana, this year, actually had a
10 loss. So you can guess how much they generated for
11 cash flow for Duke Energy. Both Ohio and Florida,
12 instead of the 13 percent that the Carolinas' net
13 income was, was about 5 percent.
14 So what happens and what Duke is doing is,
15 because the Carolinas are their cash cow and they
16 have been for years, they keep coming back to you
17 and to North Carolina, asking for these increases,
18 because they can't get increases from the other
19 states or the other businesses.
20 It's time to say enough is enough. The
21 customers of Duke Energy of the Carolinas have paid
22 their fair share and more than their fair share,
23 just by their own numbers and their own 10K. Tell
24 them, "No more from the Carolinas. Go to the other
25 businesses that you operate. Get their operating
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 195
1 expenses down where they're supposed to be -- at 77
2 percent, not 88 percent -- and ask the other states
3 to get their rates up to where ours are, and then
4 we'll be willing to speak and talk about the rate
5 for the Carolinas."
6 Thank you, very much.
7 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Thank you, sir.
8 [Applause from audience]
9 Any questions?
10 MS. SHAFFIK-HORTON: No, sir.
11 MS. C. EDWARDS: No questions.
12 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Any questions,
13 Commissioners? Commissioner Fleming.
14 EXAMINATION
15 BY COMMISSIONER FLEMING:
16 Q You threw out a lot of numbers there. And I really
17 appreciate your effort in doing that?
18 A It took me two days' worth of accumulating and going
19 through their 10Ks to do it.
20 Q Only two days. That's impressive. I just wanted to ask
21 you, just an observation. On the operating expenses --
22 A Yes.
23 Q -- the difference between Duke and Progress Energy? If
24 the merger -- if the merger entails bringing down those
25 operating expenses to get in line with what Duke's has
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 196
1 been, what will that mean -- in your viewpoint -- for
2 the future of Duke Energy Carolinas?
3 A From what their 10K says, over the next five years
4 they're only going to generate $687 million worth of
5 savings, which comes out to about $137 million dollars a
6 year in cost savings, which is peanuts to when you're
7 talking that if Progress would get their operating costs
8 down 10 percent to be equivalent to what's going on in
9 the Duke Carolinas numbers, could generate $825 million
10 just by correcting their costs in just that one profit
11 center.
12 Q You're saying if they got to the same level of
13 efficiency with their operating expenses, they could
14 generate over $800 million in savings?
15 A In one year.
16 Q In one year?
17 A In one year.
18 Q Okay.
19 A And like I said, Indiana lost money. So -- and I could
20 not find anything in their 10K that they have any rate
21 change going on in Indiana, but yet they have one going
22 on in North Carolina, they have one going on in South
23 Carolina, and there are still two going back and forth
24 between North and South Carolina that haven't been
25 finalized yet. But yet I could not find anything for
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1 Indiana utilities. In Ohio, I think, they just got a
2 small one, and they only generated 5 percent profit. I
3 think they got 4½ percent last year, their first one in
4 a long time. Progress, from the North Carolina side of
5 Progress, they got one approved for 4.5 percent, even
6 though, again, they're only making a 4 percent profit.
7 And they come to us for the Duke Carolinas side and want
8 16 percent from residents and overall 15, and they just
9 got one on the Progress side -- that is now owned by
10 Duke -- and only got 4½ percent.
11 So it's very questionable that they keep coming
12 back to the cash cows who evidently keep saying yes to
13 them, versus us saying, "No, go to your other -- go to
14 Florida, go to Ohio, go to Indiana. And (A) get your
15 operating costs down, but (B) ask their places for rate
16 increases and quit taking it out of the two states,
17 North and South Carolina."
18 And just as a reminder, we got this notice
19 [indicating] that we're saving 6.46 cents for one year,
20 because of the lower fuel cost. That expires September
21 30th of this year. So that 6.46 is going to come back
22 onto our utility bill as of October 1st. So they're
23 already going to get another increase from us, even if
24 we don't do anything else. Not that it's a lot, but
25 it's still something.
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 198
1 Any other questions?
2 [Applause from audience]
3 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Commissioners, any other
4 questions?
5 WITNESS: If you want my copies --
6 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Yes, sir, we'll take that
7 into the record.
8 WITNESS: On the 10K stuff there, I've
9 highlighted quite a bit of it.
10 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: If you'd like to put that
11 in the record, we certainly will. That'll be
12 Exhibit 4.
13 [WHEREUPON, Hearing Exhibit No. 4 was
14 marked and received in evidence.]
15 And Commissioner Whitfield has a question.
16 WITNESS: Thank you, very much.
17 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Yes, sir -- would you
18 wait? We have another question.
19 WITNESS: Oh, I'm sorry. Thank you.
20 EXAMINATION
21 BY COMMISSIONER WHITFIELD:
22 Q Yes, sir, Mr. Unkefer, the figure you quoted to
23 Commissioner Fleming in getting the expenses down, or
24 the figure you quoted to her, was that 800-and-
25 something?
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 199
1 A $825 million.
2 Q And that's in your estimation, and that's not counting
3 the $687 million from the savings in the joint dispatch
4 agreement and the fuel -- combined fuel-purchasing on
5 the JDA?
6 A No. All I did was take the 2012 revenue that they had
7 at Progress and calculated it back that, instead of the
8 4 percent, if they would have reduced the cost by 10
9 percent, how much more would have flowed down to the net
10 income line, and that came out to $825 million.
11 COMMISSIONER WHITFIELD: All right, sir.
12 Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
13 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Thank you.
14 WITNESS: Thank you, very much.
15 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Thank you for being with
16 us. Yes, sir. Thank you.
17 Next?
18 MR. DONG: David Hayes, Sylvia Alexado[sic]
19 , and Pat Taylor?
20 [Witness sworn]
21 THEREUPON came,
22 D A V I D H A Y E S ,
23 who, having been first duly sworn, testified as follows:
24 WITNESS: My name is David Hayes. I live at
25 506 Old Liberty Road in Easley.
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 200
1 And I come to you guys with a little bit of a
2 different bend today. I've owned and operated
3 businesses in the past 25 to 30 years, 10 to 15
4 people. We're the guys that are the job creators.
5 Let me tell you, that's a tough environment right
6 now.
7 Any small increase in expenses means, one,
8 your business may or may not survive. And I know a
9 lot that have. People that you will lay off that
10 have families -- I had people that had worked for
11 me for 15 years I had to let go. And that was
12 after I took the complete and total cut to my
13 paycheck. And what we don't hear about this is the
14 increase in the rates for business. Where's that
15 going to go? That's going to get passed along.
16 It's going to end up on the consumer. So it's not
17 16 percent you're talking about; it's 30 percent.
18 Because business cannot afford to eat it -- if it
19 doesn't drive them out of business altogether.
20 The other thing you hate as a businessman is
21 uncertainty. I mean, here we are 15 percent one
22 year, 16 percent the other, and a business flat-out
23 cannot function without electricity.
24 I understand Duke Power is a business. You
25 need to make money. But part of the price you pay
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 201
1 for being a monopoly is a lower return because of
2 the lower risk. I can't go and vote with my feet
3 somewhere else and buy electricity, because you're
4 the only game in town.
5 The other thing that concerns me is I see a
6 lot of waste. We've talked about some of the stuff
7 Duke Power has done. Greenville Tech's a wonderful
8 organization. I graduated from Clemson University.
9 But why should they tax my 81-year-old mother to
10 give money to these good organizations -- and, by
11 the way, the fact that no one's mentioned, too, is
12 they get the tax break instead of the people that
13 they're taking it from who have to have this
14 electricity to survive.
15 We've heard about a lot of things. We haven't
16 mentioned Progress Energy's CEO, who will get $44
17 million if he doesn't talk badly about Duke Power
18 in the next three years. They laid him off the
19 first day, despite the fact he was supposed to take
20 over the company.
21 We've heard many, many figures of money that
22 could be cut back if Duke were in financial
23 straits, which they are not; their shareholders
24 have done very well. And by that token, being who
25 they are in this day and age, raising the
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 202
1 percentage that their shareholders can take home is
2 absolutely criminal. But what you end up with is
3 people without jobs, money that does not get spent
4 in this community -- and for every dollar spent it
5 creates ten more.
6 So instead of sending it to Duke Power, who
7 obviously has other things to do with it -- that's
8 people that don't buy groceries, cars, or boats.
9 And I think that's gotten way, way understated,
10 because it's a tough business environment now; it
11 has been four or five years. I think we need the
12 money a lot more than they do. Thank you.
13 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Thank you, sir.
14 [Applause from audience]
15 Does the company have questions?
16 MS. SHAFFIK-HORTON: [Shaking head.]
17 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Any questions from ORS?
18 MS. C. EDWARDS: No, Mr. Chairman.
19 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Any questions from
20 Commissioners?
21 [No response]
22 Sir, could you wait one moment?
23 EXAMINATION
24 BY CHAIRMAN MITCHELL:
25 Q Could you just tell me -- I mean, you mentioned about
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 203
1 the increases. Could you just give me a summarization
2 maybe of your bill as a small businessman, and how it's
3 changed over the last three years?
4 A My bill -- I was in business -- actually, my business is
5 closed. I was in business for 17 years in my last
6 business. I had a boat dealership. My initial -- after
7 a substantial deposit they made me put down, at first --
8 that's fine; I understand -- I would say that my
9 electrical bill quadrupled in the 17 years I was there.
10 There were one or two times -- I was in a luxury
11 seasonal business. There were one or two times that I
12 got behind a month. No more than, say. And I will
13 promise you, those 800 numbers for Duke Power are
14 neither courteous nor helpful. Their only -- and I
15 talked to them time and time and time again, and it's,
16 "Pay us in full, with the penalty, or we will cut you
17 off." I don't remember exact times and dates, but I
18 will put my hand back on that Bible and tell you that.
19 Q But you feel -- so you went out of business, when, a
20 year or two ago?
21 A About two years ago.
22 Q I was just looking at your -- maybe your last three
23 years in business, did you see sizable increases there
24 in the last --
25 A They were -- they weren't enormous but, yeah, they were
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 204
1 enough. In the economic climate that we're in today, 1
2 or 2 percent is the difference between life and death
3 for a small business. You know, we don't have
4 multimillion lines of credit. My house -- the mortgage
5 on my house -- a second mortgage was how I paid for my
6 business, and that's how most small businessmen do. It
7 doesn't take 10 or 15 percent. And this is going to
8 hurt.
9 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Yes, sir. Any other
10 questions?
11 [No response]
12 Thank you so much for being with us.
13 WITNESS: Thank you.
14 [Applause from audience]
15 [Witness sworn]
16 THEREUPON came,
17 S Y L V I A M E R C A D O ,
18 who, having been first duly sworn, testified as follows:
19 WITNESS: Good afternoon, and thank you very
20 much for coming, and thank you very much for
21 listening. I am Sylvia Mercado. I reside at 8
22 Camelot Lane, Greenville, South Carolina 29611.
23 And number one, I'd like to speak on the
24 attitudes of the people that work in the Customer
25 Service Department for Duke Energy. Number one,
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 205
1 they are hateful, they are arrogant, and they're
2 very nasty with the customers when you call them
3 and you try to explain the problems that you have.
4 Last year I had a medical emergency, and I
5 called Duke Energy and tried to speak with somebody
6 about what was happening. I had to be hospitalized
7 because I had bleeding on the inside, so I had to
8 have emergency surgery. So on the day before I
9 went in for my surgery, I called to talk to someone
10 at Duke Energy, and the lady was so hateful and so
11 nasty. She going to give me "x" amount of days to
12 get my bill paid -- and how can I get a bill paid
13 when I'm going to be in the hospital? I mean, how
14 would you feel if somebody treated your family that
15 way? You know what I'm saying? I'm not an animal;
16 I'm a human being. I have feelings, just like
17 everybody else. I have to eat, and I need clothes.
18 I need food. I have to have nine different
19 medications. That's not an excuse; it's a fact. I
20 mean, you put yourself in other people's position
21 and see how you feel if somebody treats you that
22 way. This lady give me approximately two days to
23 have my power bill paid, or else I would be
24 disconnected.
25 And then another thing I want to understand is
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 206
1 why is it that during the months between September
2 and December through January, why does your bill go
3 up so much? One bill for one month, $224. That's
4 two people's bill, okay? I don't live in
5 Chanticleer. I don't live in a mansion. I have a
6 four-room house. I shouldn't have to pay that kind
7 of bill. That's unfair to anybody.
8 I am a single woman. I'm raising two
9 grandchildren. Nobody works, in my home, but me.
10 I have to feed them kids, clothe them, and
11 everything else.
12 Now I appreciate y'all listening and it makes
13 me feel much better to get some of this stuff off
14 my chest.
15 And one more thing: I am tired of paying for
16 these people's Mercedes-Benz and their holiday
17 homes, when I can't even half buy food to go in my
18 refrigerator. Enough is enough, simple as that.
19 And thank you for listening.
20 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Yes, ma'am. Thank you.
21 [Applause from audience]
22 Questions from the company?
23 MS. SHAFFIK-HORTON: No questions.
24 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: ORS?
25 MS. C. EDWARDS: Yes, just one question, Mr.
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1 Chairman.
2 CROSS EXAMINATION
3 BY MS. C. EDWARDS:
4 Q When did you call Duke Energy about the extension for
5 the two days?
6 A This was in March of last year, because I had my surgery
7 March 23rd.
8 Q If you don't mind, would you mind talking to Mr. Kirby?
9 A I most certainly will.
10 Q Okay, thank you. He's in our Consumer Services
11 Department, with ORS?
12 A All right. Thank you, very much.
13 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Mr. Kirby, would you hold
14 your hand up?
15 MR. KIRBY: [Indicating.]
16 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Ma'am, let's see if we
17 have any -- Commissioners, any questions?
18 [No response]
19 Mr. Kirby is there. Thank you. Thank you for
20 being with us.
21 WITNESS: Thank you for listening.
22 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Yes, ma'am.
23 [Witness sworn]
24 <
25 <
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1 THEREUPON came,
2 P A T R I C I A T A Y L O R ,
3 who, having been first duly sworn, testified as follows:
4 WITNESS: My name is Patricia Taylor. I live
5 at 311 Poplar Lane, Mauldin, South Carolina 29662.
6 A lot of what I'm going to say has already
7 been said. Today I heard on the radio about the
8 $92 million or -- not $92 million. $10 million
9 that was given to the Democrats for their
10 convention. And then over the weekend there was
11 something in the news about $57 million that Duke
12 Power had given, and it's given to different ones,
13 such as Furman university, South Carolina
14 University, Greenville Health System. Just
15 different big ones. And I'm at the point I'm just
16 like some of these other people; I feel like if I
17 have to budget, then Duke Power ought to be able to
18 have somebody in their business to be able to take
19 care of their financial situation so that they --
20 if they're going to give money -- I'm not against
21 them giving money to people. I want them to be
22 able to give their money in the right manner so
23 that we don't have to pay that extra, whenever
24 they've already spent their money and then we've
25 got to go fill their basket again once they've
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1 filled it up.
2 Also, I'm with the black lady there that was
3 talking, and she was talking about Christmas. I've
4 always noticed that, from -- December and January
5 is always the biggest bill. And I always attribute
6 it to the Christmas trees, but my husband -- and
7 I'm telling you the truth -- we're getting to the
8 age that we can't decorate and do all the things
9 that we used to do. And we still get a bill like
10 that in December. December and -- it doesn't
11 matter. They're going to charge you that, just
12 because it's Christmas. And that's the very time
13 when you need your money is those months. You
14 really don't have it after you've spent so much
15 money for Christmas.
16 But I really think it's time for Duke to start
17 -- for Duke Power to start checking their money and
18 getting them somebody in their financial position
19 -- they probably have so many people, they've got
20 too many. They're getting like a government. You
21 know, everybody's falling over each other, there's
22 so many. They probably need to cut down on people
23 and get them a new financial person. They'd know
24 how to spend -- somebody who would know how to
25 spend their money. Thank you.
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1 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Yes, ma'am. Company, do
2 you have any? Duke Power?
3 MS. SHAFFIK-HORTON: No questions.
4 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: ORS?
5 MS. C. EDWARDS: No, Mr. Chairman.
6 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Commissioners?
7 [No response]
8 Thank you, ma'am, so much for being with us.
9 [Applause from audience]
10 [WHEREUPON, the witness was excused.]
11 MR. DONG: Edward Robinson, Mignon Davis, and
12 Jaye Massey? Nancy Harverson[sic] Irene Campbell and
13 Hal Johnson?
14 [Witness sworn]
15 THEREUPON came,
16 N A N C Y H A L V E R S O N ,
17 who, having been first duly sworn, testified as follows:
18 WITNESS: My name is Nancy Halverson. I live
19 at 7 Bridgeton Court, Greenville, 29615.
20 I'm here today because I'm the president and
21 CEO of the Children's Museum of the Upstate, and I
22 want to take a minute and talk about some of the
23 great things that Duke Energy has done for our
24 community. They continue to be a good partner
25 here.
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1 In the last few weeks, we have been able to
2 have summer camp at the Children's Museum, and they
3 have been made available to children free of charge
4 because of Duke Energy. I also just spent the last
5 week at [name indiscernible], again, leading a summer camp
6 for children who wouldn't have that opportunity
7 otherwise.
8 We've talked a lot with Duke Energy about
9 their mission statement, and I do believe that they
10 are putting people and education at the forefront
11 of their philanthropic activity. We are grateful
12 for the support they've given us, for the way that
13 they've helped us to engage teachers so that we can
14 educate the very youngest in our community.
15 There's 200,000 children and families that
16 come through the doors of the Children's Museum
17 every year. At the Children's Museum we do a lot
18 of programming around the ideas of science,
19 technology, engineering, and mathematics. Duke
20 Energy believes in those topics and they are
21 helping us to educate our children. And for that
22 we are grateful. Thank you for your time.
23 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Thank you, ma'am. Duke?
24 MS. SHAFFIK-HORTON: No questions.
25 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: ORS?
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1 MS. C. EDWARDS: No.
2 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Ma'am? Ma'am.
3 Commissioners?
4 [No response]
5 Thank you very much for being with us.
6 WITNESS: Thank you.
7 [WHEREUPON, the witness was excused.]
8 MR. DONG: Are you Mr. Johnson?
9 MR. JOHNSON: Yes, I am.
10 MR. DONG: Okay, great. Before we start,
11 Essie Logan and Richard Bennett?
12 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Are they present?
13 VOICE: I'm present, but I think -- I just put
14 my name down because --
15 MR. DONG: Okay.
16 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Yes, sir.
17 MR. DONG: Go ahead.
18 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Thank you.
19 [Witness sworn]
20 THEREUPON came,
21 H A L J O H N S O N ,
22 who, having been first duly sworn, testified as follows:
23 WITNESS: Hey, good evening.
24 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Good evening.
25 WITNESS: Thank you, on behalf of the Upstate,
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1 for being here and traveling here, so our citizens
2 don't have to drive to Columbia to give their
3 voice.
4 My name is Hal Johnson. I live at 33
5 Southland Avenue, Greenville, South Carolina 29601.
6 I represent the Upstate South Carolina Alliance.
7 Duke Energy has played a crucial role in the
8 success of the Upstate Region, in economic
9 development, and the Upstate Alliance for more than
10 a decade.
11 Since 2007, the Upstate Region and Duke
12 Energy's territory has experienced more than $7
13 billion in capital investment of new companies
14 locating their facilities here and creating more
15 than 15,000 new jobs. This is more than any other
16 region in our state. Duke Energy understands that
17 access to a high-quality workforce is the number-
18 one deciding factor cited by most projects looking
19 to relocate or expand in the Upstate. Duke's
20 support of workforce development and other critical
21 components of economic development have been
22 invaluable. The Alliance's ongoing partnership
23 with Duke Energy and other regional organizations
24 is key to giving this region a competitive edge for
25 continued success in economic development.
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1 When a company is deciding where to locate or
2 to expand, one of the first things they look at is
3 electricity, both cost and reliability. Because of
4 their competitive rates and their proven track
5 record of keeping lights on, Duke Energy provides a
6 climate that fosters economic development and
7 continued growth in communities they serve.
8 An example of this is the Upstate Region was
9 named in the top ten of all economic development
10 organizations in the country just this past year,
11 by Site Selection Magazine.
12 If this rate does increase and is approved,
13 Duke Energy's electric rates will still be below
14 the national average and among the lowest in the
15 Southeast.
16 You know, I've just gotten back from China.
17 And we recruit companies from all over the world.
18 And one of the things that we learned with the
19 companies that we're recruiting is the rates for
20 electricity in China are so much more expensive
21 there than they are here. In addition, we are
22 blessed, because our power doesn't go out. The
23 fact is that it's 24/7/365, and for the most part
24 it's the cleanest energy of anywhere. I can tell
25 you that those companies want to come here and
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1 employ our citizens. I've just gotten back from
2 talking to more than 30 companies, and all 30 of
3 those companies are interested in the fact that our
4 electric rates are more than half of what theirs
5 are.
6 Thank you, very much, for your time.
7 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Thank you, sir.
8 Duke Power?
9 MS. SHAFFIK-HORTON: [Shaking head.]
10 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: ORS?
11 MS. C. EDWARDS: No, Mr. Chairman.
12 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Commissioners?
13 COMMISSIONER WHITFIELD: Mr. Chairman?
14 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Commissioner Whitfield.
15 COMMISSIONER WHITFIELD: Mr. Chairman, thank
16 you.
17 EXAMINATION
18 BY COMMISSIONER WHITFIELD:
19 Q Mr. Johnson, thank you for your testimony. Earlier this
20 evening, we had a Mr. Haskew, I believe, from the
21 Greenville Chamber, and I didn't take an opportunity to
22 ask him, but we've heard from some other communities
23 here in the Upstate that are still struggling, and I
24 guess my question to you is are you seeing the rebound,
25 with your economic development efforts? I know jobs are
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1 still hard to come by. And could you share any
2 information as to where you think the economy is and
3 where it's going right now in the Upstate?
4 A Yes, sir. You know, the economy is still suffering, and
5 it's suffering everywhere. But I would say that the
6 Upstate is coming out of what we saw as a huge job loss,
7 more created by automation than from global affairs.
8 The fact is, companies have to stay profitable and they
9 have created new equipment to make them more successful
10 and more competitive. But the fact is that the Upstate
11 has concentrated on its effort in workforce development
12 and has partners like Duke Energy that help us in the
13 economic development efforts. And because of those
14 partnerships, we've been able to recruit and retain --
15 most importantly, retain -- companies from going
16 elsewhere.
17 So I would say that, from the manufacturing
18 standpoint and the corporate standpoint, we've certainly
19 seen a great increase. We have a lot of work to do in
20 the entrepreneurial sector and growing our own
21 businesses here. The great thing is that we have
22 segments of economic development done -- where the
23 Chamber focuses on the growing of businesses, we're
24 focused on the improvement and the retention of
25 businesses.
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1 COMMISSIONER WHITFIELD: Thank you, sir.
2 EXAMINATION
3 BY CHAIRMAN MITCHELL:
4 Q And as a follow-up, would you say, the last three years,
5 you're seeing a steady increase, as far as the
6 development of new industries?
7 A Yes, sir, I would -- in 2012, the Upstate had a record
8 year of new companies coming in. On the average, we
9 typically have between 46 and 70 companies announcing
10 projects in the region. Of that, about 50 percent of
11 those are existing companies expanding. So we've seen
12 both new companies coming in and more companies
13 expanding, and that's a good thing.
14 Q And how does the Upstate compare with the state as a
15 whole, as far as the comparison on the growth of the
16 last three years?
17 A In a comparison, all but the year that Boeing was
18 announced, we are typically anywhere between 35 and 50
19 percent of the state's total activity in capital
20 investment and job creation.
21 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Thank you, very much. Any
22 other -- Commissioner Fleming.
23 EXAMINATION
24 BY COMMISSIONER FLEMING:
25 Q You may not know the answer to this, but I'm just
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1 curious. We've heard people speak about deregulated
2 utilities as compared to regulated, like we have in our
3 state.
4 A Yes, ma'am.
5 Q And you talked about the difference -- that our rates
6 are so much lower than most of the country.
7 A Yes, ma'am.
8 Q Do you know how the rates of those who live in
9 deregulated states compare to our state?
10 A No, ma'am. When we do a comparison of rates, we take a
11 look at rates overall. And we take a look at,
12 typically, in the investment area in which we are
13 focused on, and that's industry rates. So we take a
14 look at those overall rates and compare them state by
15 state, no matter if they're regulated or deregulated; we
16 just look at what the rate number is.
17 And then, when we compare it on a local basis,
18 we're comparing that between our state, and mainly our
19 region, and other countries in which we're trying to
20 recruit those companies into.
21 Q Okay, thank you.
22 A Yes, ma'am.
23 EXAMINATION
24 BY CHAIRMAN MITCHELL:
25 Q One other question. Would you tell us how the
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1 Southeast, now -- the southeastern part of the United
2 States -- is related to the other sections of the
3 country, as far as growth?
4 A Yes, sir. As far as growth is concerned, the corridor
5 in what we call the Piedmont Atlantic Megaregion -- or
6 some people call it Charlanta -- is the fastest growing
7 region inside the US. So even in comparison to regions
8 such as New York and New Jersey, Chicago and Detroit,
9 which are really seeing a decline in their population,
10 we are seeing a tremendous amount of growth. Most of
11 our counties in the Upstate have seen double-digit
12 growth in population. So that means we have to work
13 extra-hard in attracting new jobs to fill not only the
14 jobs for the people that are here, but for those that
15 are moving in.
16 Q Thank you so much.
17 A Yes, sir.
18 Q Thank you, very much.
19 A Thank you.
20 Q Thank you for being here.
21 A Yes, sir.
22 [WHEREUPON, the witness was excused.]
23 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Next?
24 MR. DONG: Richard Bennett? J.M. Flemming,
25 Melvin Younts, Dennis Tully?
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 220
1 [Witness sworn]
2 THEREUPON came,
3 J . M . F L E M M I N G ,
4 who, having been first duly sworn, testified as follows:
5 WITNESS: I'm J.M. Flemming. I live at 398
6 Oscar Street, in the City of Greenville.
7 Due to the lateness of the hour, I'm going to
8 turn in some petitions to you, and the others.
9 It's in writing. So that way, you'll have that,
10 and I'll make a statement as I'm standing here. I
11 want to thank you for being here, number one.
12 Thank you for taking time out to hear our concerns.
13 And one of my concerns is, in 2009, they asked for
14 a rate increase and got 5 percent. 2011, they
15 didn't ask, but 2012, they asked for another rate
16 increase and got 6 percent. And now they're asking
17 for a 16.3 percent rate increase. That is a total
18 of 27.3 percent -- 27.3 percent -- if they get
19 this.
20 Looking at the graphs from the government, in
21 the State of South Carolina there's no increase.
22 Looking at the seniors' pay, there are no
23 increases. Looking at the military pay, we're
24 facing no increase. But, yet, in five years, we
25 keep giving to Duke Energy whatever they ask.
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1 I'm a project manager for Brockwood Senior
2 Housing -- nothing but seniors. I have folk that
3 live there who are getting $12 a month, food
4 stamps. Twelve dollars [$12] a month, food stamps.
5 You are asking for an increase to give Duke Power
6 more money than they have money for food.
7 There's something wrong with this scenario.
8 There's something wrong with the picture.
9 And I'm concerned. We write for grants from
10 Duke Power, then you start talking about giving $45
11 million away someplace else. We can't even get $1
12 in our neighborhood. Maybe I'm living on the wrong
13 side of town or I'm writing the wrong grant, or
14 maybe I'm writing to the wrong company. But
15 there's something wrong when everybody else can
16 get, but on the southern side in the poor black
17 community, when we write for it, we can't get a
18 penny.
19 And I'm saying to you -- these petitions are
20 signed "No to Duke Energy." I'm saying no to Duke
21 Energy. Thank you.
22 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Sir, you'd like that to be
23 included in the record?
24 WITNESS: Yes, sir.
25 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: We'll list that as Exhibit
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1 5 of this record.
2 Company, any questions?
3 MS. SHAFFIK-HORTON: No, Mr. Chairman.
4 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: ORS?
5 MS. C. EDWARDS: No, sir.
6 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Commissioners?
7 [No response]
8 Thank you so much for being with us.
9 [Applause from audience]
10 [WHEREUPON, Hearing Exhibit No. 5 was
11 marked and received in evidence.]
12 [WHEREUPON, the witness was excused.]
13 [Witness sworn]
14 THEREUPON came,
15 D E N N I S J . T U L L Y ,
16 who, having been first duly sworn, testified as follows:
17 WITNESS: Dennis J. Tully. 132 Bellamere
18 Place, Piedmont, South Carolina 29673. Tulco,
19 Incorporated, 37-A Osage Drive, Greenville, South
20 Carolina 29605.
21 I'm going to talk a little bit different than
22 everybody else, I think, except one other person
23 who was a small businessman who is out of business.
24 I am not out of business. I moved my business here
25 from Georgia about six years ago. It's been very
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1 good for me. I now own the industrial building
2 that I manufacture in. I own a nice home in
3 Piedmont -- I should say, the south part of the
4 county.
5 And I just got this thing from them, Home
6 Energy Report. Average home, $129 for electricity.
7 Efficient home, $96. My home? $255. And the
8 reason that is, I'm on heat pumps. Okay? And the
9 reason I'm on heat pumps is because I wouldn't have
10 a gas heater in my house if you paid me, and I
11 wouldn't have a gas water heater, because several
12 years ago they just about wiped out my family by
13 giving off the wrong kind of gasses.
14 Now, getting back to my business. Let's see,
15 in 2009, we started a recession -- at least that's
16 when it hit me. And we've lost business of about a
17 third, okay? It has a started to come back.
18 We're up to -- maybe we're still behind by about a
19 sixth of where we were in 2009.
20 Now, I don't know about Duke Energy. Of
21 course, I'm a very unusual individual. I'm also a
22 stockholder in Duke Energy, all right? And I
23 figured it was a very good investment. I figure if
24 they're going to keep getting increases, why
25 shouldn't I get a little back from them? Quite
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 224
1 frankly, if I have some kind of inclination that
2 you people are going to give them what they want,
3 or even half of it, I've got $35,000 sitting in
4 Fidelity that I will jump on Duke Energy and buy
5 more stock. But, I'm sorry, you can't -- I mean,
6 I've heard people talk here, you know, of poor
7 people and everything, and they're the ones that
8 get hurt. I'm not hurting financially, okay? I'm
9 a lot older than I look; I'm retired, at least --
10 [3-minute alarm]
11 -- as far as money goes, so -- I'm 75 years
12 old. And I've been running this business for 40
13 years. And, quite frankly, this has been the
14 roughest time I've ever had, except when I first
15 started the thing. All right? I've had no help
16 from anybody. I started it out and just built it.
17 And I'll tell you another thing. There was
18 another company called AT&T that was also like Duke
19 Power, had the power. And that's what -- when they
20 broke AT&T up, that's what gave me the ability to
21 build my nationwide distributorship, because my
22 long distance phone bill wasn't $300 a month.
23 Okay? So I quite think you should do what Georgia
24 did and what a few other states did, and put
25 yourselves out of a job. Okay? Because I
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1 understand Georgia is doing pretty well.
2 Any questions?
3 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Any questions of the
4 company?
5 MS. SHAFFIK-HORTON: No, Mr. Chairman.
6 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: ORS?
7 MS. C. EDWARDS: No, Mr. Chairman.
8 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Commissioners?
9 [No response]
10 EXAMINATION
11 BY CHAIRMAN MITCHELL:
12 Q I am just a little curious over the last statement. Put
13 who out of a job?
14 A If you go with the -- how Georgia does it, you know, I
15 would be able to go out and get electricity from anybody
16 I want to, okay? And if somebody wants to give me a
17 lower rate for my business -- or for my house, for that
18 matter -- I can go to negotiate. Okay? And that's
19 how it works in Georgia, I understand. And they don't
20 have --
21 Q If you'd like to go ask ORS, maybe they could answer
22 your questions on that. I think you might hear a little
23 different points of view on that. I believe they have
24 some people in the --
25 A Maybe.
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1 Q -- back. Yes, sir.
2 A But I still say that breaking up AT&T is what made it
3 possible for me to succeed. I'm serious, okay? And I
4 don't know -- they have the same type of thing. They
5 are in control. I can't go somewhere else and
6 negotiate. I don't use AT&T. I wouldn't use that phone
7 company if you paid me. All right? I've been there.
8 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Thank you very much. And
9 I will say you're doing a lot of things right,
10 because you certainly don't look like you're 75
11 years old. Thank you for being with us.
12 WITNESS: All right. I'll be here again.
13 [Applause from audience]
14 MR. DONG: Carla Engle? Mary Ellen Faircloth?
15 Reta Shervin?
16 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Is Ms. Shervin here?
17 [No response]
18 Give us another one.
19 MR. DONG: June Anderson?
20 [Witness sworn]
21 THEREUPON came,
22 C A R L A E N G L E ,
23 who, having been first duly sworn, testified as follows:
24 WITNESS: I'm Carla Engle. I reside at 12
25 Rolling River Way, Taylors, South Carolina 29687.
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1 I'm a stay-at-home mother of four children.
2 My husband is the only one that works, because we
3 can't afford daycare if I return to work.
4 Right now, our power bill averages around
5 $100-$120 a month. We've been living in a place
6 with Duke Energy for three years. When we started,
7 it was $70 a month.
8 I'm asking that you all not take anything else
9 from our pockets. Right now we're living on a
10 paycheck-to-paycheck income. We're on a very
11 strict budget. My children don't have the luxury
12 of having all these afterschool programs and extra
13 classes. My daughter would love to take piano, but
14 I don't have it.
15 Right now, I'm hearing all these people saying
16 how our jobs are going up and how everything is
17 getting better? My husband was just told this past
18 week that he is no longer to get overtime hours,
19 and he has to clock in about two hours after he
20 starts work. He is working off the clock for two
21 hours, because he cannot afford to not have this
22 job completed, and lose his job with four children
23 at home.
24 Last year my husband was laid off from a job,
25 and we were not able to make bills as on time as we
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 228
1 had paid them before. My daughter, we learned, had
2 epilepsy. We have to keep power in our home. We
3 have to have air conditioning in my home. My
4 daughter will have seizures. Around the time that
5 we learned she had epilepsy, she was sent to the
6 hospital for a 72-hour EEG. Around that time, I
7 had gotten -- lost track of my bills. The day
8 after we came home, I got a knock at the door.
9 Before I could answer it, my power was shut off. I
10 had forgotten to pay my bill. And when I went
11 outside to find out what was going on, the lady
12 laughed at me. Said, "Well, not my problem. It's
13 yours," and got in her air-conditioned car and
14 drove away. Luckily, at the time, we did have
15 enough money for me to go up to the place and pay
16 my fees and fines and penalties and all that, and
17 got it turned back on.
18 Not long after that, our power was shut off --
19 well, not shut off. Excuse me. The power went
20 out, because they were working on power -- however
21 they were doing things, they were working on it,
22 and it was shut off for two days. I'd just had
23 $300 worth of groceries put into my refrigerator
24 that went bad, and I did not have -- that is four
25 mouths to feed, that I did not have the ability to
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 229
1 feed, because my groceries had gone bad. What did
2 Duke Energy tell me? "Nothing we can do for you.
3 Sorry." When I told them that I wish I could go to
4 somebody else because they're a monopoly, what did
5 they tell me? "We're not a monopoly. You can go
6 to whoever you want to. Just move."
7 [3-minute alarm]
8 All I'm asking is that you all do the right
9 thing. I just have one thing to leave you with.
10 Last night I had a dream that I was being robbed.
11 Only thing was, there was nothing I could do about
12 it. I'm a stay-at-home mom. I obviously have
13 protection for my children, but there was nothing I
14 could do about it. It just so happened today I
15 wake up to find on the news that this was going on.
16 We are living in a country where every day we
17 are being robbed. The only thing is, we're not
18 looking at the people who are robbing us the most.
19 VOICE: That's right.
20 [Applause from audience]
21 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Thank you, ma'am, for
22 coming.
23 ORS?
24 MS. C. EDWARDS: Yes, Mr. Chairman.
25 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Yes, fine.
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 230
1 MS. C. EDWARDS: Would you mind speaking to
2 Mr. Brad Kirby and Allyn Powell, with ORS? They're
3 in the back. I'd like for them to talk to you
4 about the bills and the outages.
5 WITNESS: Okay.
6 MS. C. EDWARDS: Thank you
7 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Any questions from
8 Commissioners?
9 [No response]
10 Thank you so much for being with us.
11 [Applause from audience]
12 [WHEREUPON, the witness was excused.]
13 [Witness sworn]
14 THEREUPON came,
15 M A R Y E L L E N F A I R C L O T H ,
16 who, having been first duly sworn, testified as follows:
17 WITNESS: My name is Mary Ellen Faircloth, and
18 my home here in the Upstate is at 309 Bayswater
19 Lane, in Greer, South Carolina 29651.
20 I'm not used to speaking in front of large
21 crowds and so I was a little bit nervous of coming
22 here. And so I'm a little less nervous now that
23 half of the room has gone. But a little
24 disappointed, too, because the full room is not
25 here to hear me.
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 231
1 I work here in Greenville with the American
2 Heart Association, and I've listened to everyone
3 speak tonight, and completely understand that no
4 one wants to see any rate or any bill go up, no
5 matter what we're paying. But I would be remiss if
6 I did not talk about the support of Duke Energy for
7 the American Heart Association, and that's why I'm
8 here tonight being nervous.
9 I think everyone in the room can think about
10 someone that has been touched by heart disease or
11 stroke. Heart disease takes more lives in our
12 community than any other form of -- or, any other
13 cause of death. Stroke is actually the leading
14 cause of disability. I know y'all have been
15 affected. I know my family has been affected. And
16 recently I had a best friend that had her first
17 little girl and at two days old she had a stroke.
18 So we are out in the community fighting heart
19 disease and stroke, and Duke Energy is a supporter
20 and helping with our efforts. I feel like they're
21 a good neighbor, participating in local events,
22 including ours, and supporting local projects,
23 responding to the issues and challenges of the
24 community. And for our community, the largest
25 health challenge is heart disease and stroke.
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 232
1 The shareholder-funded Duke Energy Foundation
2 is an active supporter of the American Heart
3 Association. Just recently, for example, they
4 partnered with us to promote heart health education
5 information to families in the Upstate. So what we
6 found is, a lot of heart disease is actually
7 preventable through education. And yes, we fund
8 research, and yes, we make sure doctors have
9 professional education, so when we need them they
10 are there and can treat what's going on. But like
11 I said, what we found is a lot of heart disease is
12 preventable, so education is really important.
13 The program was actually called My Life Check
14 and Life's Simple 7. And the educational packet
15 that was distributed describes to families how they
16 can get their own personal heart score and an
17 action plan that is customized to their lifestyle
18 and health outlook. And with Duke Energy's help,
19 these packets are being distributed right now
20 throughout the Upstate. We could not have provided
21 these services without their support, and I've seen
22 firsthand how important it is for Duke Energy to
23 support efforts like this, and many others, in our
24 community, to build stronger and healthier lives.
25 So I've heard several people here mention that
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1 some of the donations --
2 [3-minute alarm]
3 -- may have been a waste. I hope you don't
4 feel that, especially if you've been affected by
5 heart disease or stroke, because we are grateful
6 for their support and our organization wouldn't
7 exist without supporters and volunteers from Duke
8 Energy.
9 So, thank you.
10 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Thank you ma'am. Any --
11 MS. SHAFFIK-HORTON: [Shaking head.]
12 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: No questions? ORS?
13 MS. C. EDWARDS: No questions.
14 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: No questions?
15 Commissioners, any questions?
16 [No response]
17 Thank you so much for being with us tonight.
18 WITNESS: Thank you.
19 [WHEREUPON, the witness was excused.]
20 [Witness sworn]
21 THEREUPON came,
22 J U N E A N D E R S O N ,
23 who, having been first duly sworn, testified as follows:
24 WITNESS: Good evening. I think it is getting
25 to be evening now. I know y'all are tired, but
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 234
1 thank you so much for coming. And like one of the
2 other gentlemen said earlier, I'm glad y'all are
3 here in Greenville so we didn't have to come to
4 Columbia -- because it's hot there, and I know Duke
5 Power is really pumping down there.
6 Thank you for coming, and I want to thank the
7 Duke Energy reps for being here, as well, because
8 you really need to hear us and take it in, okay?
9 And thank you for being here today.
10 Okay. You've heard these people speak
11 tonight. They're speaking from their hearts. They
12 are speaking from experience. How many of you have
13 gone without heat? Without air conditioning?
14 Without lights? Probably none of you. But a lot
15 of our fellow men and women out here -- and mothers
16 and fathers -- have.
17 It just grieves my heart to think that there
18 would be a utility company that had no compassion
19 or care for fellow man that worked hard. Like this
20 gentleman who has the two children; he's a single
21 father. And he gets up and he works, and he works
22 hard, I know. And he took time to come tonight to
23 air his problem. He needs help. But you know
24 what? he's just one of many, many, many.
25 Do you know -- and I don't know if y'all know
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1 this, because you're not from Greenville -- two
2 years ago a woman died because she didn't have any
3 air conditioning. No fans. She did not -- could
4 not pay her bill. I'm not sure how old she was,
5 but her death was because of no air. Finally, when
6 some family member went to check on her, then they
7 realized she'd died because of overheat. I'm sure
8 there have been people who have died because
9 they've frozen to death because they didn't have
10 heat.
11 These are real issues. Are we not supposed to
12 look out for one another? Are we not?
13 And I know Duke Energy is a fine company, and
14 they pay their employees -- and especially their
15 executives and board members -- very well, because
16 I know one of them in Charlotte, and he lives very
17 fine. But you know, we've got to think about our
18 fellow man, too.
19 You were talking -- and I thank you graciously
20 for giving a 1-800 number, but it's just not
21 working. You call these numbers and you have all
22 these teleprompts. You can't get to a human voice
23 or a human ear. So what good is that doing? And
24 then, like these people have honestly said, they
25 are rude to them. And I know; I've been a
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 236
1 recipient of that, as well. Listen. We are
2 telling you, listen.
3 Duke Power doesn't deserve any increase
4 whatsoever. What have they done to deserve it?
5 Treating our -- mankind like this? That's not
6 right. That's not what God made us on this earth
7 to do.
8 [3-minute alarm]
9 I'm sorry, but I do have a few more good
10 points I need to make.
11 So, you know, I want to keep my air on, but I
12 want it for my fellow man out here, as well, and
13 these elderly who are losing their lives, and then
14 the single parents that are working hard and
15 getting behind on their bill and then they pay a
16 service charge. And whoever heard of having to go
17 pay a service fee to pay your bill on time? They
18 said you can go to a convenience store or somewhere
19 like that, and pay your bill, but you have to pay
20 -- did somebody say $1.25? -- to do it. Is that
21 not ridiculous? That is not human mankind,
22 friends, I'm telling you. And I certainly don't
23 appreciate that.
24 There are some utility companies,
25 Commissioners, that will let you call and make a
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 237
1 phone by check. If you have a checking account, or
2 maybe a credit card. I don't have a credit card.
3 But you can call, and it doesn't cost one penny.
4 Okay, another thing. Duke Energy obviously
5 has plenty of money because they're giving it out
6 to all of these businesses and different
7 organizations. Why can't they have an office here
8 in Greenville, South Carolina -- a couple of
9 offices -- for customer service --
10 VOICE: Yes.
11 WITNESS: -- to let these people go and meet
12 face-to-face?
13 [Applause from audience]
14 Thank you. When I have a concern, I want to
15 see somebody face-to-face.
16 I was not going to speak tonight, but this
17 precious gentleman right here with his hand up next
18 to his face, he said, "Please speak." And thank
19 you for that. I appreciate it.
20 I feel like you're very concerned. I think
21 all of y'all are concerned. You look like good,
22 honest, compassionate people. You've heard tonight
23 these pleas and desperate means these people are
24 living in. You know what, if I had your job, I'd
25 know how I was going to vote tonight, because I
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 238
1 couldn't sleep if I voted yes.
2 VOICE: That's right.
3 WITNESS: I really couldn't. And these people
4 have done their homework, too, a lot better than I
5 have. They spent -- one man said -- what, Ms.
6 Fleming -- two days? You know, he's got the facts.
7 And it just really upsets me about that. It really
8 does. So I want y'all to listen to us. I'm sure
9 you have, and you've heard us. Now you have work
10 to do. Are you going to say no to Duke Energy?
11 "No increase"? You've had increases how many years
12 now, it's been, up 27 percent since 2008? Okay,
13 we're not going to do it anymore. We're going to
14 stand up for South Carolina. We are not a
15 redheaded stepchild, and --
16 VOICE: You said it.
17 WITNESS: -- we're not going to treat our
18 citizens that way. We have hardworking people
19 that, you know, because of certain circumstances
20 now, their jobs are being cut back; they're not
21 able to make money. And elderly people that go
22 without their medicine? Do any of you have older
23 people, or anybody, in your family -- health care
24 has gone up quite high. And insurance is not
25 covering medicines now. Would you hate to see your
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 239
1 loved one die because they had to pay the Duke
2 Power bill and couldn't pay for their medicine?
3 No, I don't think you would. Y'all just don't look
4 like those kind of people to me.
5 So I want you to say no to Duke Power -- I
6 mean, Duke Energy. Excuse me. No. Zero increase,
7 period. I want to see more coming from you. I
8 want to see more compassion, more customer service.
9 And you've been so sweet to tell people to go talk
10 to certain people, and I hope they'll help them
11 with this -- truly help them erase the debt.
12 So, the ball's in your court. And I'm praying
13 for y'all. This is a hard decision. Anytime you
14 work for a commission and you're serving the
15 public, it's not easy. You get a lot of people
16 that are nice to you and a lot of people who
17 aren't. But guys and women, we have a serious
18 issue here tonight: the whole State of South
19 Carolina. And I just really pray that you'll just
20 really realize that this has to be a "no" to Duke
21 Energy.
22 And thank y'all for coming. I'm glad y'all
23 have good jobs, and I appreciate you coming. But
24 you need to hear this. And I want you to go back
25 and tell your board of directors this. And we'd
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 240
1 like for them to come sometime, also.
2 [Applause from audience]
3 COURT REPORTER: Ma'am, could you give me your
4 name and address, please?
5 WITNESS: Okay. My name is June -- like the
6 month -- Anderson. 1 Chanticleer Drive,
7 Greenville, 29605. And I apologize for not giving
8 you that.
9 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Okay. Any questions?
10 MS. SHAFFIK-HORTON: No, sir.
11 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: ORS? Excuse me.
12 WITNESS: Oh, I'm sorry.
13 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: ORS, any questions?
14 MS. C. EDWARDS: No questions.
15 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Okay. Commissioners?
16 [No response]
17 Thank you, ma'am. Thank you for being with
18 us.
19 [Applause from audience]
20 [WHEREUPON, the witness was excused.]
21 MR. DONG: Gene Hawkins, W.E. Guthrie, Sue
22 Ellen Senate?
23 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Is Mr. Guthrie here?
24 [No response]
25 MR. DONG: Clarence Thornton?
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 241
1 [Witness sworn]
2 THEREUPON came,
3 G E N E H A W K I N S ,
4 who, having been first duly sworn, testified as follows:
5 WITNESS: Gene Hawkins. 3 Manley Drive,
6 29609.
7 I'm glad you called me. I thought I was going
8 to be the one to turn the lights off -- no pun
9 intended. Been here three hours for practice on
10 what I was going to say.
11 But I go a long way back with Duke Power. My
12 dad worked for Duke -- not Duke Power, but James
13 Duke that started Duke Power. He kept a generator
14 running at James Duke's mansion in Durham, where he
15 could throw lavish parties and all. He was the
16 only person in Durham that had power. They also
17 took money out of my dad's paycheck every week to
18 build the Duke University Hospital, and said he
19 would have free medical care for the rest of his
20 life. My dad died in Greenville General; we never
21 had free medical care. But I've got a few things
22 to say about Duke.
23 I appreciate you being here. I like the
24 power. I like to go home at night and turn a
25 switch on. But there are some things that they
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 242
1 just -- and I'm a small business owner. My son and
2 myself are in business. Five years ago, we had two
3 companies and 12 people. Today we've got one
4 company and three people. And I work free. So
5 we've got a warehouse that's got power coming to
6 it, got two meters on the outside. It's got two
7 giant fans in the back that we'd really like to
8 use. But Duke took one of the meters off because
9 the power was being paid for by another company.
10 So I called up to have it put back on, and the
11 woman said, "Well, we'll be glad to come out and do
12 it." It was "x" amount of money to come out and do
13 it. And then she says -- I said, "Well, we don't
14 use it year round, because we don't like to have
15 breezes coming through our warehouse when it's 30
16 degrees outside, so she said -- and this is where I
17 get into the inefficiency of big companies. Big is
18 not always better, but big has got bigger, and so
19 they're not going to be near as better. But they
20 want to charge you $35 a month for a meter that
21 sits there and does nothing for seven months out of
22 the year. We don't use that power. It's only two
23 fans on that circuit that's coming off of their
24 pole; it's 480 volts. The 480 volts and -- I'm
25 not an electrician but the others are 240 or
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 243
1 whatever, we use the 240 side and the 408 volts.
2 So they want me to pay for not using power, which
3 is ridiculous. They have to read the meter that's
4 right beside the meter that they want me to pay $35
5 for, for not using. And the girl told me, she said
6 -- I said, "That's ridiculous." And she said,
7 "Well, I think so, too." And she did work for your
8 800 number. But we talked about it a little bit
9 and she said, "I tell you what you could do, Mr.
10 Hawkins." She said, "You call me up and we'll send
11 somebody out there to cut it off when you don't
12 want to use it." Well, I turn the water off and on
13 every day that way, but they -- if I go out of my
14 warehouse a week, they don't come out and cut the
15 water off to save me money. I don't --
16 [3-minute alarm]
17 -- pay for it because I don't use it.
18 I haven't been here three minutes, have I?
19 That thing can't be right. I got two more.
20 But anyway, to make a long story short, they
21 need to be more efficient. We've had, at our house
22 -- and I'll get this ended -- three times in the
23 last ten years, we've been without power for a
24 week. The last time was three or four years ago
25 when we had the big ice storm, and we'd been out of
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 244
1 power for five days. And I see some trucks come up
2 the road. And I ran down there to kiss those guys,
3 but they were from Mississippi. And so I got to
4 talking to them, and I said, "Man, what can I do
5 for you?" I said, "We've been up here a week
6 without power." And all he says, "Well, we're
7 going to get your power back on." I said, "Well,
8 let me bring you coffee and all." He said "No."
9 And he said, "But it'll be the last dern time we
10 come up here." And I said, "Why?" He said,
11 "Because of Duke Power." He said, "We came up
12 here," and this is back to the inefficiency thing
13 that y'all need to look at. He said, "Duke wants
14 us to come out, put a new pole up, put new cross-
15 arms up, put a new transformer up. Then they'll
16 want us to clean up everything and take it back to
17 their place." He said, "We're up here to keep you
18 people from freezing. We're not up here to clean
19 up for Duke Power." He said, "They can do that
20 next year when it's 100 degrees; they can come
21 around and pick all that stuff up."
22 So those guys did what they said. They just
23 threw it over in the horse pasture next to my
24 property and it laid there for about nine months.
25 I don't know who got up, but it wasn't Duke.
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 245
1 But there's just some things that they need to
2 think about. We're going to pay $400-and-some a
3 year for power that we're not going to use. And
4 that's not right. We're a small company. And I
5 don't understand. And I think they need to start
6 doing some of this stuff. They'd save a lot of
7 money for everyone. Why send someone out there to
8 read the power if you cut the power on and off
9 every other month? I said, "Are you serious?" She
10 said, "Oh, yeah. We'll come out there and send the
11 guy out to turn it back on, and next Monday if you
12 don't want it, call us and we'll cut it back off."
13 But I just wanted to throw that out to you,
14 because you're wasting a lot of money in a lot of
15 places.
16 [Applause from audience]
17 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Sir? Sir. ORS, any
18 questions?
19 MS. C. EDWARDS: Mr. Hawkins, I would
20 encourage you to talk with our Consumer Service
21 Department and our Electric Department -- Ms.
22 Powell and Mr. Kirby -- about that.
23 WITNESS: Okay, thank you.
24 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Commissioners, any
25 questions?
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 246
1 [No response]
2 Thank you so much.
3 [Applause from audience]
4 [WHEREUPON, the witness was excused.]
5 [Witness sworn]
6 THEREUPON came,
7 C L A R E N C E T H O R N T O N ,
8 who, having been first duly sworn, testified as follows:
9 WITNESS: My name is Clarence Thornton. I
10 reside at 114 Douth Street, Greenville, South
11 Carolina 29601.
12 If I had a way of saying it, I'd say you can't
13 beg for mercy. You can beg God for mercy, but you
14 can't beg evil or mankind for mercy.
15 Duke Energy have become a monopoly. A big
16 dictatorship with no remorse for the poor, and it's
17 time for us to stop it. We can no longer afford to
18 come to this building, this edifice, every year
19 begging for equality and justice. It's time to
20 stop. The pleas of the people are falling on deaf
21 ears. We seem to have a public commission that
22 can't say no to Duke Energy. For whatever reason,
23 corporate greed have taken over this Commission.
24 They're not listening to the voice of the people.
25 Our children are economically educated and have now
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 247
1 fallen to 45th in this nation. Our children are
2 failing economically.
3 We must now take some kind of form of action,
4 because it's sad to see senior citizens beg. Duke
5 do not deserve an increase. The minimum wage is
6 $7.25. When have the people had an increase? And
7 if they can't increase together, then why should
8 anyone increase?
9 I say to you we must take action the same way
10 Martin Luther took action. We must take action
11 same way Jesus Christ took action in protest. We
12 must have the same action where the Boston Tea
13 Party protested tax without representation.
14 I say these things because it's true. It's
15 time for us to take action. And here's out
16 something needs to take action. You hear this kind
17 of stuff, you need to take action. If the public
18 commission vote yes on this, then they not serving
19 the interest of the people. If they vote yes, then
20 they not serving the interest of the people. And
21 didn't I say I'm tired of seeing people beg?
22 The public commission do not need to no longer
23 be voted by legislators. They give campaign money
24 to these senators and legislators. They need to be
25 voted on by the people every two years. And that
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 248
1 way, the people have control of their destiny.
2 Like I say, you can beg God for mercy, but you
3 can't beg evil for mercy. Duke is greed. And to
4 make a personal story, I know a young lady who had
5 to pay a $130 bill. She didn't have the money and
6 she asked Duke Power can she just pay the $130.
7 Well, they disconnected --
8 [3-minute alarm]
9 -- her power, and she asked, "Well can I pay
10 the $15 later -- the disconnect fee later?" Duke
11 Power told her, "No. If you don't pay the $145,
12 you will not have no power." She raised money,
13 $130, but just for $15, Duke Power said that. She
14 said, "But I need gas money to go to work." Duke
15 Power still said, "No. If you don't have the $145,
16 you will not have no power." Said, "What about my
17 children?" Duke Power still said no.
18 The Marines have a saying, "No man left
19 behind." If we can't be there for everybody, if we
20 can't come out as together, then nobody comes out.
21 That's what the Marine says: No man left behind.
22 And to vote an increase will leave all these senior
23 citizens behind. And they was here before us; now
24 we need to be there for them, and leave no man, no
25 woman, no child left behind, because the facts are
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 249
1 here. We're 45th in this nation, economically. No
2 man, no woman, no child left behind.
3 Duke, you have a lot of nasty attitudes.
4 Everybody can't get an increase with minimum wage,
5 you don't deserve one either. Thank you.
6 [Applause from audience]
7 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Duke?
8 MS. SHAFFIK-HORTON: No questions.
9 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: ORS, any questions?
10 MS. C. EDWARDS: [Shaking head.]
11 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Commissioners, any
12 questions?
13 [No response]
14 Thank you so much for being with us.
15 WITNESS: Thank you.
16 [Applause from audience]
17 [WHEREUPON, the witness was excused.]
18 MR. DONG: The last two names I have on the
19 list are Lottie Gibson and Milton James.
20 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Mr. James present?
21 [No response]
22 VOICE: [Words inaudible].
23 MR. DONG: I'm sorry? Who did I forget? Your
24 name, ma'am?
25 MS. BRIDGES: Princella Bridges.
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1 MR. DONG: Okay. I haven't seen your name on
2 the list, but please come forward.
3 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Yes, ma'am, if you'd like
4 to come on up, we'll get you next.
5 [Witness sworn]
6 THEREUPON came,
7 L O T T I E B . G I B S O N ,
8 who, having been first duly sworn, testified as follows:
9 WITNESS: Lottie Gibson. I live at 104
10 Gettysburg Drive, Greenville, South Carolina 29605.
11 I represent District 25 on the Greenville
12 County Council. I want to welcome you to these
13 chambers, and I hope that your stay will not be in
14 vain. In fact, I hope that you will vote
15 favorably, that you will not be giving this raise.
16 I represent a group of people, the poorest in
17 the county. The oppressed, the unemployed, the
18 single mothers, the single fathers. Prisoners who
19 cannot get jobs because of their records. So I
20 come tonight to say that I hear a lot about how
21 they cannot afford this raise in their power
22 company, and they hope that you all will not grant
23 it.
24 I want to thank you for accepting the position
25 of serving on the Commission. And, of course, I
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1 feel your pain. But I hope that you've heard the
2 voices of the people, since I'm the last speaker,
3 and I appreciate you coming. Thank you from the
4 citizens of Greenville. But I do hope that you
5 will not vote to give a 16 percent raise.
6 Thank you so much, and I'll entertain any
7 questions.
8 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Any questions?
9 MS. SHAFFIK-HORTON: No.
10 [Applause from audience]
11 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Questions from ORS?
12 MS. C. EDWARDS: No questions.
13 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Commissioners?
14 [No response]
15 Thank you, ma'am. Thank you for being here.
16 [Applause from audience]
17 [WHEREUPON, the witness was excused.]
18 [Witness sworn]
19 THEREUPON came,
20 P R I N C E L L A L E E - B R I D G E S ,
21 who, having been first duly sworn, testified as follows:
22 WITNESS: Good evening. My name is Princella
23 Lee-Bridges. I live at 116 Deoyley Avenue,
24 Greenville, South Carolina 29605.
25 And I, too, would like to thank you for coming
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1 to hear the voices of the people. I will be
2 speaking from a totally different perspective. I'm
3 speaking from a burn-prevention perspective.
4 Any raise in any amount will encourage people
5 to use alternative sources of heating. South
6 Carolina is the fifth largest in burns, in the
7 country. Our state is the fifth largest of people
8 who get burned by fire. I'd like for you to think
9 about what will happen for those who will get
10 injured by fire as a result of them heating with
11 whatever chimneys that don't get cleaned out
12 properly, defective kerosene heaters, whatever they
13 can create -- you know, stuff in a barrel.
14 Whatever. We just don't want that to happen as a
15 result of not being able to pay the energy bill.
16 And also as a side note, I do help with
17 families who have lost property to fire and been
18 injured by fire, and when I go to try to assist
19 them in getting their power turned on, there's an
20 exorbitant fee of reconnect from the place they
21 left. They've already been behind in their bills,
22 they've already used their share of a one-time
23 deal, they've already used their miracle bill one-
24 time deal, so these people are without power and
25 nowhere to go. So please consider, when you're
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1 making your decisions, that population of people
2 who will be affected by you raising that rate of
3 increase.
4 Another thing, I'm the president of the
5 Greater Pleasant Valley Neighborhood organization.
6 There is a large number of senior citizens in the
7 homeowners. They have not been afforded a raise,
8 so any increase would be a hardship. One of the
9 other things that's a real concern of mine is, my
10 father died; the power bill had to be taken out of
11 my mother's name -- out of my dad's name, into my
12 mother's name. They made my mother pay a $200
13 deposit to take the light bill out of my dad's name
14 into her name. And we asked why, and they said
15 because we're changing the name.
16 So I'm concerned that there's some things in
17 place that are inefficient, as far as the consumer.
18 And at the end of the day, I really don't care who
19 Duke Power give their money to. I just don't want
20 them to stick us. I really don't. I don't care
21 who you give your money to. All these other
22 entities need your assistance. But as consumers,
23 we need you a little bit more because we need the
24 power. You're the only game in town. So please
25 give us an opportunity to survive while we're
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 254
1 having --
2 [3-minute alarm]
3 -- these hard times.
4 [Applause from audience]
5 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Any questions?
6 MS. SHAFFIK-HORTON: [Shaking head.]
7 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: ORS?
8 MS. C. EDWARDS: Yes.
9 CROSS EXAMINATION
10 BY MS. C. EDWARDS:
11 Q Ms. Bridges, when was the $200 deposit issue?
12 A This year.
13 Q This year?
14 A Uh-huh.
15 Q Would you -- if you have a few minutes, do you mind
16 talking to our Consumer Services, Mr. Kirby?
17 A Sure. Sure. Especially since my mama give them $200.
18 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Commissioners, any
19 questions?
20 [No response]
21 Thank you, ma'am, for being with us.
22 WITNESS: Thank you.
23 [WHEREUPON, the witness was excused.]
24 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Do we have -- these are
25 all the ones that we have listed. Do we have
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1 anyone else who would like to speak? Come forward.
2 [Witness sworn]
3 THEREUPON came,
4 S A N D R A J O N E S ,
5 who, having been first duly sworn, testified as follows:
6 WITNESS: My name is Sandra Jones. My address
7 is 6 Cavendish Circle, Taylors, South Carolina
8 29687.
9 I'm here today because I'm a witness and I
10 have a testimony. My lights were just disconnected
11 on the 20th, and I had to get them reconnected on
12 the 21st, because I didn't have the money at the
13 time. I called and tried to make an arrangement,
14 but they wouldn't make it with me. So we were out
15 of power from about 5 o'clock that afternoon on the
16 20th, until about 4:30 to the 21st. Now, I have a
17 ten-year-old son, and nine-year-old daughter, and a
18 13-week-old baby. I called about six or seven
19 times and asked them, "Could you please come out?
20 I've paid the money to reconnect the lights, and
21 it's hot. I have a newborn baby." They said,
22 "Ma'am, we'll get to you when we can." So they
23 didn't come until about 4:30.
24 Another thing is, when my kids came in, they
25 asked, "Mom, why do we have to use the bathroom in
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1 the dark? Why do we have candles?" And I just
2 broke down in tears because it was embarrassing to
3 tell them that we couldn't pay the light bill
4 today, so we have to use candles to use the
5 bathroom. Like, they're nine and ten; they don't
6 understand why we don't have the money to pay the
7 light bill, why they can't participate in
8 enrichment programs this summer or go to summer
9 camp because we don't have the money to pay these
10 expensive light bills. My light bill was $164.
11 That's more than my phone bill, my car insurance,
12 my gas bill, my water bill. That's the highest
13 bill that I have.
14 We are afraid to put up lights during the
15 holiday season because we think that our bill will
16 get jacked up about $100 more. So we only put up
17 like paper things on the window. We can't put up
18 Christmas lights anymore. And when I come home at
19 night, we'll only have like one light on in the
20 house, because if you leave on all the lights, then
21 that's a really high increase in your bill. So if
22 I'm coming home with three children at 9 o'clock at
23 night, it's really scary if you can't have any
24 lights on.
25 Another thing is my grandmother, she's 73
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1 years old, and we go over there about three or four
2 times a week, and it's hot in there. And we say,
3 "Grandma, why isn't your air on?" She'll say,
4 "Well, you know, babe, I don't want to cut the air
5 on because, you know, the light bill will be high."
6 That doesn't make sense. She's on oxygen, her
7 cartilage is gone in her knee. She doesn't have
8 the luxury of going outside and getting cool air.
9 She's confined to a chair, and she has to have her
10 air conditioner, but she can't afford to turn it on
11 -- only about three days a week.
12 And when they were talking about how much they
13 give to all these other programs and organizations,
14 where is an organization for the parents -- single
15 moms, single fathers, as they said -- who don't
16 have money to pay the light bill? Where could we
17 go to get extra money or help for the light bill?
18 We have SHARE, but they can only help a certain
19 amount of people, or once a year. They have
20 churches, but the churches are running out of
21 money. If you don't have money to pay tithes, the
22 church doesn't have money to give you for your
23 power bill. So where's the money coming from?
24 [3-minute alarm]
25 I don't want to run over, but just a little
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 258
1 bit more. I'm educated; I'm a full student. I
2 have my Associate's Degree and I'm working on my
3 Bachelor's. It's hard to find gainful employment
4 right now, because you can't afford to pay daycare
5 for three children when you have these high
6 expenses. So all I'm asking is, don't give us an
7 increase, at least not until we get an increase,
8 because it's not fair. And that's all I ask. No
9 increase for Duke Energy.
10 [Applause from audience]
11 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Any questions?
12 MS. SHAFFIK-HORTON: No questions.
13 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Any questions of ORS?
14 MS. C. EDWARDS: I would just encourage Ms.
15 Jones -- thank you for speaking, first of all, and
16 I encourage you to talk to Mr. Kirby in the back,
17 and Ms. Powell.
18 WITNESS: Okay.
19 MS. C. EDWARDS: Thank you.
20 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Commissioners?
21 [No response]
22 Thank you, ma'am.
23 [WHEREUPON, the witness was excused.]
24 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Yes, sir.
25 [Witness sworn]
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 259
1 THEREUPON came,
2 S T E V E N B R Y A N T ,
3 who, having been first duly sworn, testified as follows:
4 WITNESS: Steven Bryant -- Steven with a "v."
5 107 Hickory Hill Lane, Greenville, 29609.
6 I really wouldn't have gotten up if I didn't
7 feel like I had something to add to this, and I
8 didn't sign up because I thought somebody else
9 would cover this. If you boil this down to a pure
10 business decision, I do think that we've all been
11 spoiled by electricity, and I can't imagine living
12 without it, but don't think it's my inherent right
13 to have it. I think that you have to make tough
14 decisions, and I would really be in a pickle if I
15 had to make some of the decisions people in the
16 room are describing. So I sympathize, but I don't
17 think Duke owes me anything.
18 I'm a small business owner. I spend about
19 $36,000 a year on electricity. And it's very
20 important, obviously, to businesses. My
21 understanding of the Commission is it's your
22 responsibility to ensure that Duke has a fair
23 return on their equity. And so, it takes a lot of
24 money to build power plants; I understand that.
25 Your responsibility, as I understand it, is to make
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 260
1 sure they have the ability to do that and get a
2 decent return on their investment.
3 And so, we're in an economic reality right now
4 where the accepted rate-of-returns all across the
5 US is dropping, so companies like Duke, their
6 ability to make a return is dropping and that's due
7 to several reasons -- interest rates are
8 historically low, so companies like Duke can
9 renegotiate the interest they're paying on their
10 business loans, and that's one source of raising
11 their own revenue. So they're benefiting from low
12 interest rates. That's one reason that the reality
13 is companies like Duke are making a lower rate of
14 return right now. And so it's entirely acceptable
15 for them to be seeing a lower rate of return, like
16 other utilities are seeing right now.
17 Natural gas prices are at historic lows, if
18 you look over the past ten years. And a gentleman
19 in the room pointed to low energy prices. It's
20 probably going to drive a huge return of
21 manufacturing to our country. It hasn't happened
22 yet, but with all the resources they're
23 discovering, the forecasts for energy prices is to
24 go low. And so, if we agree to have an increase
25 right now, with the prospect of their input costs
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1 -- natural gas -- going to historic even-lower
2 numbers, I think history will judge us fools,
3 because they're about to see -- they've already
4 seen lower input costs, and that trend is going to
5 continue.
6 And so currently, I believe they're at a 10.5
7 percent return on equity in South Carolina. North
8 Carolina has kept them to a 10.2 percent, so North
9 Carolina has been a better negotiator for their
10 people. I understand that, if this rate were to
11 pass, their rate of return would go from 10.5
12 currently to 11.5. And so, economically, it
13 doesn't make sense for them, as a monopoly -- as
14 has already been said -- to continue enjoying a
15 high rate of return --
16 [3-minute alarm]
17 -- in an overall environment of declining
18 rates of return for the business they're engaged
19 in. Thank you.
20 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Thank you sir.
21 [Applause from audience]
22 Any questions?
23 MS. SHAFFIK-HORTON: [Shaking head.]
24 MS. C. EDWARDS: No questions.
25 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Commissioners?
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 262
1 [No response]
2 Thank you, sir. Thanks for being with us.
3 [WHEREUPON, the witness was excused.]
4 [Witness sworn]
5 THEREUPON came,
6 C A R R I E M I N G O ,
7 who, having been first duly sworn, testified as follows:
8 WITNESS: I'm Carrie Mingo, and I live 246
9 Alameda Street, here in Greenville. My ZIP Code is
10 29607.
11 I'm thankful for this opportunity. I did put
12 my name down, but after hearing testimony from
13 other people about the cases where no leniency was
14 shown on residents who were in need -- I have a
15 friend who was paralyzed. She had a son who was
16 paralyzed. Her son has since died. But anyway,
17 back in December, she called me to ask me if I
18 could be a guarantor for her utility, for Duke
19 Power. And I didn't understand what she meant, you
20 know, that they had added the deposits because of
21 some lateness in her payments. She lives on fixed
22 income. When I called them, I was told that they
23 were on their way to turn off her lights and that
24 -- I asked if there was anything that we could do.
25 You know, "I'll be glad to be a guarantor." "No,
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 263
1 there's nothing that you can do. It will take
2 awhile, a few days, before this process can be
3 completed." I said, "Well, can we expedite it? I
4 have a fax. Could you fax the paperwork and we can
5 do it that way?" I was told, "No, we cannot do
6 it." The only way this could be done was that it
7 had to be paid, because they were going to turn it
8 off; they were on the way to do it. And there was
9 nothing that we could do, except the only thing I
10 could do was I put $814 on my credit card to
11 prevent her power from being turned off. She
12 sleeps in a bed that -- she has to have electricity
13 because of the bedsores that it will cause if she's
14 not on there.
15 So I just think about the sensitivity, and
16 after hearing all this stuff, I just wanted you to
17 hear this. I've already talked to representatives
18 for ORS and the other regulatory for the Public
19 Service Commission. I just wanted to share that
20 with you, and I hope that whenever they decide to
21 do this, make this, that they will look into the
22 actual problems before they decide to make that
23 decision to terminate the power. Thank you.
24 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Any questions of the
25 company?
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 264
1 MS. SHAFFIK-HORTON: No.
2 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Any questions?
3 MS. C. EDWARDS: No, Mr. Chairman.
4 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Commissioners?
5 [No response]
6 Thank you, ma'am, for being here.
7 [Applause from audience]
8 [WHEREUPON, the witness was excused.]
9 Do we have anyone else who would like to speak
10 before we close?
11 [No response]
12 If not, Mr. Dong, would you again remind
13 everyone of the hearing in Columbia, and the date?
14 MR. DONG: The hearing in Columbia will be
15 Thursday, August 1st, 2013, and I believe it will
16 probably start at 10:30 that morning.
17 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: I think that's the usual.
18 MR. DONG: Oh, the 31st. Okay. Wednesday,
19 July 31st.
20 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: 10:30.
21 MR. DONG: 10:30.
22 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: July 31st, 10:30, will be
23 the full hearing in Columbia, for anyone who would
24 like to come.
25 SEN. REESE: Mr. Chairman
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 265
1 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Yes, sir, Senator.
2 SEN. REESE: If I could -- is there a hearing,
3 as well, in Anderson?
4 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Yes, sir, there will be a
5 hearing in Anderson, Thursday night at 6 o'clock in
6 the Civic Center.
7 SEN. REESE: Of this week, correct?
8 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Yes, sir, that's correct.
9 And you're welcome to attend that. Anything else?
10 MS. C. EDWARDS: Mr. Chairman?
11 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: Yes.
12 MS. C. EDWARDS: ORS would ask that the
13 witness list be entered into the record -- marked
14 for identification and entered into the record.
15 CHAIRMAN MITCHELL: We will do that, Ms.
16 Edwards, and that will be Exhibit 6 and entered
17 into the record of this case.
18 Thank all of you for being here, and we
19 appreciate it so much for your attentiveness.
20 Thank you, and this meeting is now closed.
21 [WHEREUPON, at 9:40 p.m., the hearing in
22 the above-entitled matter was adjourned.]
23 ______
24 [WHEREUPON, Hearing Exhibit No. 6 was
25 marked and received in evidence.]
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA Docket No. 2013-59-E Duke Energy Carolinas/ Rates & Charges 266
C E R T I F I C A T E
I, Jo Elizabeth M. Wheat, CVR-CM-GNSC, Notary Public in and for the State of South Carolina, do hereby certify that the foregoing is, to the best of my skill and ability, a true and correct transcript of all the proceedings had and testimony adduced in a hearing held in the above- captioned matter before the PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF
SOUTH CAROLINA. IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand and seal, on this the ___30th____ day of __ July___, 2013.
Heerfngs Reporter, PSC/SC Ny Commission Expires: Jau.uarg 27; 202t.
NIGHT HEARING/GREENVILLE - VOLUME 2 6/24/13 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA