Big Book Chat with Lenny Henry KIT DE WAAL
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Big Book Chat With Lenny Henry KIT DE WAAL: Welcome to Big Book Weekend and thank you all for coming to this very special event with Sir Lenny Henry. Legendary comedian, author, activist and avid reader. Sir Lenny Henry is here to talk about the books that have made him, the stories he still wants to tell. And why we all have to get angry and active in improving diversity in what we watch, what we listen to and also what we read. Welcome Lenny. LENNY HENRY: Hello. How are you? KIT: So good, so good to see you. We have had to make sure we don't get talking too early, because me and Lenny have so much to talk about! But I want to start by going right back to the beginning of you as a reader, as a child. What were the books that inspired you? I mean were you a big reader as a child? LENNY: You have to understand some things about me. I'm from Dudley, and Dudley has a library, and we used to walk past it every day and we’d sort of do a long loop to school and my Auntie Pearl, when I was quite little, five or six, said “you have to go in here and you have to sign up or you won't be able to borrow the books, they will stop you, they will stop you if you walk out and you are not a member. So, you have to join up.” So Auntie Pearl took me to the library and the lady looked at me and there were no other black people in here at all by the way, just me and this old lady. We signed up to the library, and it was like manna from heaven. Getting a library card for me as a five-year-old boy, was just the best thing in the world. All these books! And I think I have spent my life trying to recreate this palace of books. Everywhere I have been there’s always books, books everywhere, there is books wherever I go. I have tried to make my life a place where I'm surrounded by books. So, the first book the lady on the thing gave me, she said “hello, what's your name,” “Len”, “OK here's a book I thought you would like. We give it to a lot of kids to start their reading when they come here.” Do you know what the book was, Little Black Sambo! KIT: No! LENNY: Yeah. So, I go home with Little Black Sambo, which is as you would expect this quite bizarre caricature of a small African child with massive lips and weird hair with bones in it and stuff. And what happens to Little Black Sambo is he's a brave little kid who takes on a tiger and he escapes the tiger by running around a tree until the tiger turns into butter, spoilers! That is the first book I ever read. And when I got to the end, I was only five, I thought damn I can't wait to get to Jane Austen! Because this is some bull...! So, from that moment on I was intrigued to know about the other kind of stories – other stories there was going to be - so I went back, and I slammed it down on the counter, and went like this “this is terrible, have you got anything else?” And then I started to read other kinds of books. I read things like Grimble by Clement Freud which is about a little ten-year-old boy who cooks because his mum and dad don't really look after him. I read books like ‘Jennings’, I read ‘Billy Bunter’. I hoovered all of the ‘Just William’ books, I read all the ‘Narnia’ books. And then there was a moment when I was at junior school in Dudley, hello anyone who went to Justin's junior school, where I read every single Dickens' book. KIT: How old were you when you were reading Dickens? LENNY: About 10, 11, or something? KIT: Oh my god! LENNY: About nine or ten. I knew it was important, I loved the film of A Christmas Carol and wanted to see what it was like on the page. And this replicated itself as I got older, I watch something, and I go I wonder what that's like on the page and so I’ll buy the novel or a screenplay just to see what it looks like. And so, when I was reading the Dickens, I was more concerned with the visual aspects of it strangely, than the slightly verbose nature of it because Dickens is the kind of guy who uses nineteen words when half a one would do. So, I loved it, but I bet you I skimmed, because when you read A Christmas Carol or Bleak House or ‘Edwin Drood’ or Great Expectations – now there’s a lot of words! I read all of them and was fascinated by it. I could feel the amount of words and the amount of working out in your head. I could feel that all happening in here, and I didn't know what was going on. I was learning that stories aren't just once upon a time a man or a woman did this. And also, at no point did I think where are the black people in this? KIT: No. LENNY: At no point, when I read Narnia, when I read Just William, when I read Billy Bunter and he had an Indian mate who was a Sikh, I thought, oh, there is an Indian kid in this that kind of looks like me. I knew he looked like me, because they did the lines on his face to make him look like me. But at no point did I go “why aren't there any black kids in Narnia.” Because I was so busy embodying the focalised, the central character that it didn't really matter to me. Now when I read a book, I'm like “where are the black folks?” But when I was a kid because the author had said I’m going to write such a kick arse story you’re not going to know what the hell’s going on. I was just in there, reading. I read a book called ‘Birdy’, by somebody called, why do I remember this, EW Hildick, and it was about a kid at school who really whistled well, and Birdy got to make records and be in the charts and do concerts. And his best mate who was another 12-year-old kid, went on the road with him as a kind of manager. And why do I remember that now? Do you know why? Because it was great story and I was really interested in a kid who, because he can whistle really well, like Roger Whittaker suddenly gets a pop career. And even in my brain as a kid I was going how does that work? But I went with it, because when you are reading a great story and the writing is good you go with it. And I went with it. Those are the kind of things that I read, I read The Hobbit, I think. I didn't read The Lord of the Rings until later, because The Lord of the Rings is this thick, and it was a daunting prospect for me to read The Lord of the Rings. But I ploughed through my level of books from the time I was five to the time I was, well until now! KIT: That’s amazing. And is that part of, I mean you say you didn't see yourself reflected in books, you as a black person reflected in books. Can you remember the first book that you read that did reflect your life, if you like, even if, not your life as a black person, but maybe as a working-class person? What's the first book you could really identify with? You can't remember? You’re going to write children's books now? LENNY: Yeah, I am, yeah. I think it is really important, by the way. What's really good is that there's loads of kids’ books now with a black girl on the front or a black boy on the front or an Asian kid on the front. But when I was growing up, when you were growing up, those books didn't exist. And so, we had to, through the narrative, find a place for ourselves to be. Well, I'm like Johnny Seven, I so wanted there to be a black friend in the ‘Famous Five’ books or `The Secret Seven’, I always thought why haven't they got a cool mate called Tyrone who they bring along on the adventures, he could replace the dog, he could replace Timmy. But for a long time, my childhood reading was un-raced. So, you know, the first time I read about working-class people was in A Kind of Loving, it is a kind of naughty, Stan Barstow, a kind of naughty working-class book, I think the girl got pregnant in it and it was quite salacious, and I thought oh my god this is about working-class people. That's in there, that's when I started to read. And when I was doing my O-level, which wasn't until, the 1980s, because I was doing summer season with ‘Cannon and Ball’, thank you, thank you, once again I thank you, you little liar, you little liar, rock on Tommy.