Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

TUESDAY, 16 MARCH 1965

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

2592 Questions [ASSEMBLY] Questions

TUESDAY, 16 MARCH, 1965 period to see an Eye Specialist is not peculiar to Townsville as it is difficult to make an appointment with Eye Specialists Mr. SPEAKER (Hon. D. E. Nicholson, in Brisbane under three months. The Murrumba) read prayers and took the chair Hospitals Board has given consideration to at 11 a.m. the matter and has requested the Medical Superintendent to discuss the position with ELECTORAL DISTRICT OF CAIRNS the Director-General of Health and Medical Services when he next visits Brisbane." BY-ELECTION DURING RECESS; RETURN OF WRIT Mr. SPEAKER: In accordance with the COURT CHRISTMAS VACATION.-Mr. Dean, direction of the tenth section of the Legis­ pursuant to notice, asked The Minister for lative Assembly Act of 1867, I issued a writ Justice,- on 21 January, 1965 for the election of a ( 1) Has his attention been drawn to member to serve in the Legislative Assembly the leading article in The Courier-Mail of for the electoral district of Cairns, in the February 3, headed "Justice on its long room of George Waiter Gordon Wallace, holiday"? Esquire, deceased, and the said writ was duly returned to me with a certificate (2) If so, what appropriate action will endorsed thereon by the returning officer of be taken to avoid similar delays in justice the election, on 27 February, 1965, of in the future? Raymond Jones, Esquire, to serve as such member. Answers:­ MEMBER SWORN (!) "Yes." Mr. R. Jones was introduced, took the (2) "I refer the Honourable Member to oath of allegiance, and subscribed the roll. statements made by me and recently Mr. SPEAKER: I welcome Mr. Jones as reported in the local Press. The Honour­ a member of this Assembly. able Member will be thereby aware that during the Christmas Vacation (which in Queensland generally follows Court Vaca­ DISTINGUISHED VISITOR tions in other States), a criminal trial in Mr. R. Ashton, M.P. (Territory of Papua the Supreme Court was held at Townsville and New Guinea) in December, and criminal sittings of the Supreme Court and of the District Courts Mr. SPEAKER: I welcome to our were held at Brisbane in January, com­ Assembly a visitor from the House of mencing on January 18. He will also be Assembly of the Territory of P'apua and aware that action has been taken and is New Guinea in the person of Mr. Ashton, still being pursued in this State, with the the member for New Britain, who is seated objectives of expediting Court hearings and in the Distinguished Visitors' Gallery. avoiding any Court congestion which,. in I welcome you, Mr. Ashton, and trust common with other States and countnes, that your stay with us will be both occurs mostly in the civil jurisdiction and interesting and informative. for which the parties themselves are at times responsible. Generally there is a Honourable Members: Hear, hear! continuous growth in the business of the Queensland Courts, including in the QUESTIONS measure of work actually handled by the Courts and experience in Queensland and EYE PATIENTS, TOWNSVILLE GENERAL elsewh~re reveals as the leading article HosPITAL.-Mr. Coburn for Mr. Aikens, pur­ referred to did suggest, that the problem is suant to notice, asked The Minister for not one merely of the length of the Court Health,- Vacation." Further to his Answer to my Question on October 21, 1964, can he now inform the House if the waiting period for eye SANDGATE FISH DEPOT.-Mr. Dean, pur­ out-patients at the Townsville General suant to notice, asked The Minister for Hospital has been reduced and, if so, to Labour and Industry,- what extent and in what manner? ( 1) Has he received any reports that metal containers have been stolen from the Answer:- Sandgate fish depot? If so, how many "The Townsville Hospitals Board has were stolen and on what date were the ad~ised th~t the waiting period for eye out­ containers reported missing? patients With non-urgent conditions to be seen by the Ophthalmologist has not been (2) Were the police notified of the theft?' reduced. Urgent cases are dealt with If so, have they located any of the missing immedi:;ttely and there is no waiting period containers? for the Issue of spectacles to pensioners and (3) What percentage of the gross catch others who are not required to be examined of prawns is retained by the metropolitan by the Ophthalmologist. The waiting fish board? Questions [16 MARCH] Questions 2593

(4) What services are given to the owners and sale negotiation of seafoods over­ of prawn trawlers by the Professional carried at auction; (e) Discount on Fishermen's League in return for the fishermen's purchases; (f) Lower insur­ one per centum deduction from their ance rates; (g) Two representatives on gross catch of prawns? the Fish Board through whom sugges­ tions and complaints are channelled." (5) What is the reason for the depot being closed on Sundays for the supply of (5) "The agent advises that, up to ice to the trawler owners, who find it most October last, the depot was opened on inconvenient and an economic loss in Sundays. However, it was found that having to load ice on a Friday night or a certain fishermen were making a conveni­ Saturday morning? ence of the board's facilities by obtaining their ice supplies from the board and then (6) Will he give consideration to having marketing their resultant prawn catch to the depot opened even for a limited period other prawn processors. The agent further on a Sunday afternoon to supply ice? states that there is always one of his staff on call during the week-end. Prawns are . (7) Why is the Redcliffe fish depot sup­ unloaded on Saturdays and Sundays, and plied with a radio service and Sandgate regular prawn suppliers to the board are depot is not? always able to obtain ice on request." ( 6) "Please see Answer to Question Answers:- (5) ." ( 1) "My enquiries reveal that, when the Cabbage Tree Creek Depot at Sandgate (7) 'The Postmaster-General's Depart­ was opene_d some t!1ree (3) years ago, trials ment refused the Fish Board's request for were earned out m regard to the use of a two-way radio installation at Cabbage aluminium bins but, due to the number Tree Creek. However, a receiving set is unaccounted for, it was decided to utilise installed at Cabbage Tree Creek for the wooden cases, similar to those used by receipt of messages." prawn processors who purchase direct from fishermen, in competition with the Fish Board. However, such processors have no VISIT OF X~RAY UNIT TO MITCHELL RIVER proper shore facilities. The Chief Inspector AND EDWARD RIVER MISSIONS.-Mr. Davies of the board personally investigated the for Mr. Wallis-Smith, pursuant to notice, losses of the ?ins, and did, in fact, recover asked The Minister for Health,- a goodly portwn. The depot is operated by Has the X-ray unit visited Mitchell and an agent but, in view of its isolation, it is Edward River Missions? If not, will he necessary for the premises to be lighted consider an early survey so as to bring each evening. The agent, on at least three these people into line with other residents ( 3) occasions, has notified the police in of Queensland? regard to thefts from the depot but in no instance has the stolen property been Answer:- recovered." "No. The existing mobile X-ray units (2) "See reply to Question (1)." are not designed to travel to such remote and inaccessible places as the Mitchell ( 3) "This Question is somewhat vao-ue Riye~ and the Edward River Aboriginal but it is presumed that the informatio~ M1sswns. There is a special unit in course required is in regard to the quantity of of construction which is designed to enable prawns processed, as compared with those the more remote areas of the State to be sold by auction. The percentage varies ~·eached a_nd this unit should be in operation considerably, depending on whether the m the fmrly early future. When the unit prawn intake is received in a green or is functioning those areas of the State co_oked state. However, it could be safely which have not been covered by reason smd that by far the greater quantity of of inaccessibility will receive a visit by this prawns received from Cabbage Tree Creek Special Unit and such areas will include Depot is processed." the Mitchell River and Edward River Missions." ( 4) "This matter is outside my jurisdic­ tion but, to help the Honourable Member, I obtained the undermentioned information USE OF AMERICAN FINANCE IN CONSTRUC­ from the State Secretary of the Queensland TION OF ALUMINA REFINERY, GLADSTONE.­ Professional Fishermen's League as to the Mr. Lloyd, pursuant to notice, asked The services provided- Premier,- (a) Promotion of scientific fisheries ( 1) In view of the announcement last research. (b) Legal assistance. (c) year by the Commonwealth Department Sponsorship of-(i) Harbour facilities; of the Interior (Facts and Figures No. 82 (ii) Fisheries conservation; (iii) Loans June Quarter 1964) that the construction to fi hermen; (iv) Fishermen's amenities· of the £53 million Alumina Refinery at (d) Daily representation at the Metro~ Gladstone is to be financed by 117 million politan Fish Market; auction scrutineer dollars advanced by a consortium of Banks 2594 Questions [ASSEMBLY] Questions

in the United States of America, will he Honourable Member will recall that, in the investigate the possible effect of the moves Truth newspaper of March 7, 1965, by President Johnson of the United there was some reference to the possibility States to restrain American overseas invest­ of these children going to Canada. This ment and indicate, if this is necessary, was followed by further Press enquiries. what alternative finance might be avail­ Therefore after careful consideration of able to ensure the construction of this all the circumstances, it was considered important project? desirable that there should be published an authoritative statement indicating that the (2) Has he been in contact with the children had arrived safely in Canada. The Prime Minister in regard to this important State Children Department is to be corn­ matter to ascertain what effect, if any, mended for the discretion they exhibited in these American moves will have on this delicate human problem." projected industrial development in Queensland?

Answers:- DRUNK-DRIVING CHARGE AGAINST D. J. (1) "I am not aware of any difficulty ANDERSON.-Mr. Coburn for Mr. Aikens, which arises in the subject case where pursuant to notice, asked The Minister for financial arrangements are already Education,- concluded." (1) On March 10 did Stipendiary Magistrate Gardiner dismiss a drunk­ (2) "It is refreshing to see the Honour­ driving charge against David John able Member's change of heart towards Anderson, because he accepted Anderson's the use of overseas capital in essential plea that his erratic driving was not the developmental work. So far as I am result of taking alcohol or drugs, but aware, no projected industrial development because he suffered from hysteria which in this State is affected by the moves. If it was aggravaned by crowds? were, the Honourable Member can rest assured that the Government would make (2) If so, will he have the Commissioner all necessary representations." of Police consider withdrawing Anderson's license in view of his self-confessed danger CHILDREN OF HENDRIKUS PLOMP.-Mr. to all other road users? Lloyd, pursuant to notice, asked The Minister for Labour and Industry,- Answer:- (1) Was his statement, published in ( 1 and 2) "A case against one David The Courier-Mail of March 11, that John Anderson of being whilst under the Hendrikus Plomp's two sons would be influence of liquor or a drug in charge of a flown to Canada to live on Prince Edward motor vehicle was dismissed by Mr. W. J. Island issued as a Ministerial release? If Gardiner, Stipendiary Magistrate, at the not, what were the circumstances? Magistrates Court, Brisbane, on March 10, (2) Why was it considered necessary to 1965. In his decision on the case, Mr. give a matter, which concerns the future Gardiner did not record that he accepted lives of two young boys of seven years and Anderson's plea that his erratic driving four years, this unnecessary publicity? was not the result of taking alcohol or drugs, but because he suffered from hysteria which was aggravated by crowds. Mr. Answers:- Gardiner stated in his written decision (1) "No. This was Press speculation. that there was evidence of the consumption In fact, the address mentioned was incor­ of liquor, but that there was a reasonable rect, but I have no intention of disclosing doubt, in his opinion, that the defendant the whereabouts of the youngsters, other was guilty of the offence as charged and than to say that they are in Canada." that consequently the defendant must be (2) "For the information of the Honour­ given the benefit of the doubt. Considera­ able Member, I would mention that the tion is being given to the question of Press, from time to time, has been making whether an appeal should be lodged in this inquiries regarding the welfare and future case. Until a decision is made in that of these children. These boys have been connection the matter of action which protected successfully during the period may or rday not be taken by the Police they have been in the care of the State Department in relation to Anderson's Children Department, and their actual driver's license will remain in abeyance." departure from Brisbane for Canada was carried out without the knowledge of the Press. I agree with the Honourable Mem­ CANE AssiGNMENTS IN MILLAROO AND ber that these children should not be DALBEG AREAS.-Mr. Coburn, pursuant to subject to Press publicity but, realizing notice, asked The Minister for Primary that the Press knew the address in Canada Industries,- of Plomp's parents, it was obvious that it would only be a matter of time before it (1) Will the Central Cane Prices Board became public knowledge that the children give consideration to further applications were in Canada. As a matter of fact, the for cane assignments in the Millaroo and Questions [16 MARCH] Questions 2595

Dalbeg areas or has it adopted a policy HousiNG CoMMISSION RENTAL HousEs, that no further cane assignments will be ToWNSVILLE.-Mr. Davies for Mr. Tucker, granted in these areas? pursuant to notice, asked The Minister for Works- (2) If the policy to be applied is that (l) How many applications for rental no additional cane assignments will be accommodation are presently held in the granted in these areas to Invicta Mill at office of the Queensland Housing Com­ any time in the future, what is the reason mission, Townsville, and what are their for the adoption of such a policy? points priority? (2) How many homes for rental pur­ Answers:- poses have been constructed in Townsville ( 1) "In Answer to a Question by Mr. since July 1, 1963? Tucker on March 9 I stated inter alia "all applications are at present being examined Answers:- by a Regional Committee. The Central (1) "Two applications at 100 points, Sugar Cane Prices Board, after examina­ both of whom have been offered accommo­ tion of all relevant information, will in due dation; nil at 80 points; two at 60 points; course decide which lands will be assigned." 21 at 40 points and 243 without priority." l am informed that applications being investigated include applications from the (2) "Completed 33 houses; under con­ Burdekin River irrigation area and these struction 13 houses. During this period 38 applications will receive consideration with vacated State rental houses and 92 flats other applications. Following the granting became available for reletting." of the assignments presently being exam­ ined, the Invicta Mill area should be fully assigned. Consequently the Board will not OCCUPATIONAL SAFETY COMMITTEE IN RAILWAY DEPARTMENT, TOWNSV!LLE.-Mr. at present give consideration to further Davies for Mr. Tucker, pursuant to notice, applications for assignments in the Invicta asked The Minister for Transport,- mill area." ( 1) Is there a safety committee operating (2) "As the expansion contemplated by in the Railway Department at Townsville the Committee of Inquiry will shortly have and, if so, what is its composition, how been completed, it is not possible to fore­ often does it meet and has it succeeded cast when or on what conditions a further in reducing industrial accidents? expansion in the sugar industry will take ( 2) Does the committee cover all place. However, the Honourable Mem­ sections of the Railway service or only ber can rest assured that, if there is to be part thereof and, if the latter, then what a future expansion, the Central Board will particular section or sections are involved carefully consider submissions made on and what is the reason for the exclusion of behalf of various areas of the State suit­ other sections from the committee's able for cane-growing." activities? Answers:- DISMISSAL OF EMPLOYEES, PADDY's GREEN ( 1) "There is an Occupational Safety IRRIGATION PROJECT.-Mr. Davies for Mr. Committee in the Railway Department at Wallis-Smith, pursuant to notice, asked The Townsville which comprises-The Locomo­ Minister for Local Government,- tive Engineer; The Mechanical Engineer in ( 1) How many men have been paid off Charge, Townsville Workshops; The Safety from the Paddy's Green irrigation section Officer; Two representatives of the Com­ since March 1, 1965? bined Railway Unions. This committee meets once per month, and it has been (2) Is it intended to further reduce the productive of beneficial results." work force in this section and, if so, to (2) "The committee covers the Work­ what extent? shops Section. The question of extending ( 3) What are the reasons for these the practice to other sections is being examined." dismi~sals?

Answers:­ DRIVERS' LICENSES TESTING CENTRES IN (1) "Nine." BRISBANE SUBURBS.-Mr. Bromley, pursuant (2) "No." to notice, asked The Minister for Mines,- ( 1) What are the exact locations of the (3) "The work on which these employees driving-test centres to be established in were engaged, namely the construction of a the Brisbane suburbs and when will they section of precast concrete flume, has now commence operations? been completed. There is no other work (2) How many personnel will be to which they could be transferred at employed at each centre and what will be present." their respective duties? 2596 Questions [ASSEMBLY] Questions

Answers:- school buildings, in unenclosed areas, ( 1) "Two new drivers' license testing where they are readily accessiole and use -centres are to be established. One will can be made of them quickly by large be at the corner of Cavendish Road and numbers of pupils. lt has been strongly Stanley Street East, Coorparoo. Plans for suggested that use of soap, especially from the necessary building have been prepared dispensers, would be most eiiective if the and it is expected the centre will be opened washing faciJ.ities were located within early in the next financial year. The other school toilets. Wash basins and water centre wili be located in the western outlets are not now available within toilet suburbs but a decision regarding the actual areas and the provision of such facilities site to be used has not yet been made. It in toilets in all schools by the Department is hoped to bring this centre into operation of Works would constitute a major under­ during next financial year." taking, involving heavy expenditures, and should not have priority over other import­ (2) "When the two new centres are ant projects. I feel that it is difficult for established it is proposed that the staff at anyone wl10 is not familiar with the each of the three centres which will then be routine of a large school to appreciate this operating will comprise one police officer, position which is quite different from that four civilian testing officers and one female existing in an office or commercial estab­ clerk-typist." lishment. My officers have given much thought to this matter and doubt whether a satisfactory result can readily be achieved unless a disproportionate amount of the PROVISION OF SOAP AND TOWELS IN funds voted to my department are used SCHOOLS.-I\1r. Sherrington, pursuant to for the purpose." 11otice, ~,sked The Minis~er for Education,­ Further to his Answer to my Question of (3) "A suggestion which is both suit­ March 10, 1965, concerning the issue of able and practical has not resulted from soap for use by school children,- the enquiries made to date. As pointed out previously the greatest cost would be ( 1) Has any inquiry been made into that of installing washing facilities and what are the most suitable types of adequate drainage in toilets. Another item soap or detergent for use in com­ of cost which must be considered in con­ bating hepatitis or similar infection? nexion with this matter is the provision of (2) Have enquiries been made into paper towels-which provision is regarded the most efficient manner, by way of in many quarters as a necessary adjunct dispenser or other means, by which to the supply of soap. Apart from the encouragement of this method to expenditure on washing facilities in toilets, combat infection could be put to it has been estimated that the cost of soap, practical use in schools? dispensers and paper towels during the first year would be well in excess of (3) If so, what has been (a) the most £110,000, with a recurring annual cost suitable practical suggestion and (b) thereafter of over £90,000. In the course the estimated cost of carrying out such of the departmental inves:igation I directed a programme in schools? my officers to make close enquiries as to the present position in this regard in Answers:- neighbouring States. It has been found that, at the present time, the Education ( 1) "Enquiry has not been made by Departments of New South Wales and my department into what are the most Victoria do not provide soap in any form suitable types of soap or detergent for use or towels for the use of pupils in schools specifically in combating hepatitis or similar under their control. Advice has been infection. Investigations have been made received that these Departments have given on the basis of providing soap or deter­ consideration on several occasions to gents, paper towelling and necessary ancil­ making these items available but the cost lary installations for general ablution of supply has been found to be. prohibiti>:e, purposes." especially in the light of existmg commit­ (2) "From information available it is ments. Prominent amongst the many difficult to determine whether one method proiects on which the finance available of distribution of soap would be more could be more advantageously applied in effective than another and whether there is Queensland schools is the provision of any simple economic method which is septic and sewenge installations, in respect practicable in Queensland schools. The of which my Government has made a introduction of a general provision of determined effort since taking office. For either the ordinary cake soap, or soap in the seven vears up to June, 1957, the cost liquid or powder form utilising dispensers, of making. these installations in 118 exist­ presents problems in schools where large ing schools was £357,845. From June, numbers of children use washing facilities 1957, to June, 1964, installations have simultaneously or within a relatively short been made in 271 existing schools at a period, for example, just before the resump­ cost of £1,191,600. Septics or sewerage tion of school after recesses. At present, installations have, of course, been pro­ such washing facilities are arranged under vided in all new schools where water is Form of Questions [16 MARCH) Farm Water Supplies, &c., Bill 2597

available and the costs of these are not been answered on two previous occasions. included in the figure of £1,191,600 given I will have a look at it berore coming to a above. I feel sure that no responsible decision. person could call for a reduction in the expenditure on this and other desirable DISALLOWANCE OF QUESTION projects in order to provide soap and towels for school children. It is reiterated Mr. BJENNE'JI'T (South Brisbane) having that the encouragement of good hygiene given notice of a question- habits in the child is the responsibility of the home as weil as of the school. Teachers Mr. SPEAKER: Order! I rule the hon. will continue to stress upon all pupils the member's question out of order. need for personal hygiene. ln the light -of enquiries made in Queensland and in other States it is not regarded as practic­ FARM WATER SUPPLIES ASSISTANCE able to provide soap and towels at the ACTS AMENDMENT BILL present juncture." INITIATION IN COMMITTEE (The Chairman of Committees, Mr. Hooper, MINISTERIAL STATEMENT Greenslopes, in the chair) APPOINTMENT OF MR. R. E. CAMM TO Hon. H. RICHTER (Somerset-Minister MINlSTRY for Local Government and Conservation) Hon. G. F. R. Ni!CKUN (Landsborough­ (11.39 a.m.): I move- Premier) (11.23 a.m.): I desire to inform the "That a Bill be introduced to amend House that, following upon the death of the Farm Water Supplies Assistance Acts, the late Honourable Ernest Evans, His 1958 to 1963, in a certain particular." Excellency the Governor, on 11 March, 1965, appointed Rona!d Ernest Camm to be a The Farm Water Supplies Assistance Acts member of the Executive Council of Queens­ provide that applications may be made to the land and Minister for Mines and Main Roads Commissioner of Irrigation and Water Supply of Queensland. for technical and financial assistance to farmers for works of water supply and I lay upon the table of the House a copy irrigation. of the "Government Gazette Extraordinary" of 11 March, 1965, containing the relevant The Commissioner is required by the Acts notifications. to refer an application to the Director­ General, Department of Primary Industries, Whereupon the hon. gentleman laid the for a report upon the prospects of success "Government Gazette Extraordinary" upon of the farming operations involved. the table. Experience has shown that where an PAPERS advance is requested for works for the irrigation of sugar cane, the Bureau of Sugar The following papers were laid on the Experiment Stations would be a body better table:- qualified to investigate and report on such Orders in Council under- applications, and the Department of Primary The Abattoirs Acts, 1930 to 1958. Industries has recommended that these appli­ cations be referred to the Bureau. The Milk Supply Acts, 1952 to 1961. It is proposed, therefore, that the Acts be The Primary Producers' Organisation amended to require applications for advances and Marketing Acts, 1926 to 1962. for works for the irrigation of sugar cane to be referred to the Director of the Bureau The State Housing Acts, 1945 to 1964, of Sugar Experiment Stations, instead of the and the Local Bodies' Loans Director-General, Department of Primary Guarantee Acts, 1923 to 1957. Industries. Regulations under the Regulation of Sugar It is a very simple Bill, and I commend Cane Prices Act of 1962. it to hon. members. Mr. JLLOYD (Kedron) (11.41 a.m.): From FORM OF QUESTIONS the brief outline given by the Minister I do Mr. RAE (Gregory) having given notice not think there can be any objection to the of a question- principle contained in the Bill. It is rather interesting to note from the history of this Mr. SPEAKER: Order! Some parts of the legislation that in the few years it has been text of the hon. member's question appear in operation primary producers have received to be out of order. advances to the extent of £1.000.000. The principle has been adopted from New South Mr. O'DONNEJLJL (Barcoo) having given Wales legislation; it has been accepted, and notice of a question- has proved of value. TI1e Minister said it is proposed that the Bureau of Sugar Experi­ Mr. SPEAKER: Order! The latter part of ment Stations will investigate these applica­ the hon. member's question appe~rs to be tions, and we on this side have no objection the only part in order. The earlier part has to the principle. 2598 Farm Water Supplies Assistance [ASSEMBLY] Acts Amendment Bill

Mr. COBURN (Burdekin) (11.42 a.m.): be considered by the officers of the depart­ The amendment to the Farm Water Supplies ment. I trust that in the future something Assistance Act seems a very simple but a of far greater consequence than this Bill very wise one. \Ne who live in the sugar­ will be introduced so that the primary pro­ growing areas know the tremendous benefit ducers of the State can be assisted materi­ gained by the farmers through the sugar ally in this direction. experiment stations. We also realise the widespread knowledge that the officials at Mr. NEWTON (Belmont) (11.46 a.m.): _I these stations have of the operations carried agree with the Deputy Leader of the Oppos~­ tion and the hon. member for Port Curtis out in the various areas. It will be much more that there is nothing in this Bill to which sensible to leave decisions on whether grants we can object. Many problems associated should be made to certain farmers to the with conservation are linked with other port­ Bureau of Sugar Experiment Stations instead folios so it is to be expected t.hat more of the Department of Primary Industries. Bills ~imilar to this will be introduced by the Minister. Listening to the recent debate on I commend the Minister on the introduction soil erosion I realised how the portfolios of of this measure, which we regard as very lands, prim~ry industries, and conservat!on, good. The provisions of the legislation have are linked. No doubt recommendatiOns been instrumental in allowing production on dealing with many aspects of this Act will a much larger scale by those who would not come from other departments to the depart­ have been able to engage in it without the ment controlling conservation. If we are to assistance received under the Act. This is a helVe a Minister for Conservation, this mat­ further improvement to the Act in that ter will have to come under his jurisdiction. people who are closely in touch with the Already there has been a recommendation sugar industry will give advice on advances from the Department of Primary Industries to those engaged in the growing of sugar concerning the Bureau of Sugar Experiment cane. Stations, and people representing other Mr. HANSON (Port Curtis) (11.43 a.m.): phases of primary industry will no doubt put I heartily endorse the view expressed by the forward suggestions as to how their problems Deputy Leader of the Opposition that we on should be dealt with by a Minister for Con­ this side of the Chamber are wholly in servation. agreement with the Bill. It is very desirable A number of marketing boards have been and will definitely accelerate grants to appli­ established. They deal with problems in cants for advances under the Farm Water particular industries, and no doubt will want Supplies Assistance Act. to have ·some say in the implementation of One phase of the operations of the Act this Act. That is only right as they are con­ has been referred to by many primary pro­ stituted by men on the land who are fully ducers' organisations throughout Queensland. cognisant of the problems that confront their This involves the belief that repayments particular industry. should commence when the work for which I hope that the Government will look the money was advanced has been completed closely at this matter. I feel that the port­ and the farm is in a state of production. In folio now held by the Minister wiil play an some instances it may be 12 or 15 months important part in the development of Queens­ before the farmer or the producer is able to land if it does the job for which it was get his farm into production, harvest a crop created. With the exception of unemploy­ from it, and receive some return from the ment, the worst thing that can face organisation that is buying his crop. There Queensland is drought. At present the should be some latitude in this matter. The State faces . this very serious problem granting of some period of grace before throughout its length and breadth. repayments start would assist the primary producers and I believe that the suggestion I, with other members on this side of merits the consideration of the administration. the Chamber, appreciate the Bill that t]le Many concessions are given to secondary Minister is about to place before the industry in this State, and, as we owe a Committee. Although it is only a·small Bill, good deal to the primary producer, there is it is one of which we approve. It is my great merit in the suggestion. If he receives opinion that the Minister's portfolio could financial assistance in the construction of a cover many activities now linked with other small dam, for example, his repayments Government departments on the question of should not start until he is in a position to conservation. meet his obligations. Motion (Mr. Richter) agreed to. Mr. Richter: You will appreciate that there are also some difficulties. Resolution reported.

Mr. HANSON: I realise that there are FIRST READING a number of difficulties, and that abuses Bill presented and, on motion of Mr. can creep in. However, the suggestion should Richter, read a first time. Irrigation Acts Amendment Bill [16 MARCH] Irrigation Acts Amendment Bill 2599

IRRIGATION ACTS AMENDMENT BILL Mr. RICHTER: They put the plant on the site, and progress payments are made on INITIATION IN COMMITTEE that plant. (The Chairman of Committees, Mr. Hooper, Mr. Hanson: What if the plant is under Greenslopes, in the chair) hire purchase? Hon. H. R][CHTER (Somerset-Minister Mr. Rl!CHTER: The plant is movable, of for Local Government and Conservation) course, but fixtures are not; they are on the (11.54 a.m.): I move- Commission's property. "That a Bill be introduced to amend the Irrigation Acts, 1922 to 1961, in certain The second amendment relates to charges particulars, and to validate a certain for town water. In May 1957, regulation 16 regulation." under the Irrigation Acts was promulgated, giving authority to the Commissioner to levy Two amendments are proposed. The first water charges in respect of town water supply. is to authorise advances to contractors on Often there is a little township in an irrigation the security of plant and buildings delivered area that the council cannot supply with and erected on a project site. The second water and which is being supplied by the is to clarify the authority of the Commis­ Irrigation and Water Supply Department. The sioner of Irrigation and Water Supply with regulation provides for the c~arging for ;-va.ter regard to charges for town water supplies. with respect to land on which any bmldmg Those are the two points contained in the is erected and which is within 300 feet of the Bill. middle of a road in which water mains are Mr. Uoyd: It is to benefit the people of laid by the Commissioner. This condition Warwick, I imagine? is similar to the condition under the Local Government Acts. Provision is made for a Mr. R!!CHTER: Not necessarily, no. As minimum charge to be imposed on any land a matter of fact, it will not apply to them within 300 feet of the middle of the road at all. along which the main is laid. Last year, the Water Acts were amended Mr. Newton: Through which the water to allow the Commissioner of Irrigation and main passes? Water Supply, subject to the Minister's approval, to make advances to contractors Mr. RICHTER: Yes. The charge varies for plant and buildings delivered and erected according to the nature of the building or on a site where works are to be constructed. buildings on the land. This method of The Commissioner constructs works under charging is similar to that adopted by many both the Water Acts and the Irrigation Acts, local authorities. and it is proposed, therefore, to include within However, the Solicitor-General has pointed the Irrigation Acts provisions similar to those out that the regulation appears to be incon­ in the Water Acts for making advances to sistent with Part II of the Schedule to the contractors. Acts. Part II of the Schedule sets out the Mr. Uoyd: These advances have been made subject matter for regulations, and it is the in the past? opinion of the Solicitor-General that clause 33 can be interpreted to mean that the water Mr. RICHTER: Under the other Act, yes. must be laid on or connected to the land I brought down a Bill last year to amend the before a charge can be made for it. We Water Acts. are adopting a principle similar to the one that we adopted under the Local Government Mr. Uoyd: That is, before any work is Acts, under which any land within 300 feet done, and as long as the plant is assembled of the middle of the road on which a main ready for work? is laid is rateable. Mr. RICHTER: Yes. Advances are made Mr. Cobm:n: Whether they take advantage on the plant and any buildings that are put of it or not? up. It is quite reasonable and normal procedure. Mr. RICHTER: Yes, whether they take it or not. Provision is made for it; if they do Mr. Uoyd: The proposed amendment will not take it, that is just too bad. make the position somewhat similar to that applying when a home is built, in that, as It is proposed, therefore, to amend clause work progresses, payments are made? 33 of Part II of the Schedule to the Irrigation Acts to remove any doubt as to the legality Mr. RICHTER: For any buildings on the of regulation 16 and that the amendment project. be retrospective to validate the water charges levied since the regulation was promulgated. Mr. Lloyd: You make progress payments only, not advances? Those are the only two amendments pro­ posed, as I mentioned earlier, and I commend Mr. RICHTER: Yes, progress payments on the Bill to the Committee. the security. 1\

Mr. Lee: Surely you do not think the Mr. CAMP.BELL (Aspley) (12.23 p.m.): I Government would make progress payments have a reservation concerning the second unless the work was done by the contractor. aspect of the Bill. I understand that water If it made a progress payment it would own passing properties not alr~ady . supplied what it paid for. with water by a local authonty Will attract a rate. I have in mind development taking Mr. NEWTON: It is interesting to hear place in the local authority area of Pine the viewpoint of the hon. member for Rivers, where, to meet the wishes of a sub­ Y eronga. I am putting my viewpoint based divider who is developing an area outside on the experience I gained when these pro­ the city of Brisbane, water is being brought jects were carried out by the Department of from the Petrie dam. For several miles it Irrigation and Water Supply under the day­ passes rural properties before reaching the labour system. It is entirely different now, development site on the extremity of the when the work is done by contractors. Closer Pine Rivers Shire area. attention must be paid to the money that will be expended, and how the Government The water will pass several large farming will come out of it in the long run. properties, and severe hardship could be suffered by these farmers as they have I agree with the Deputy Leader of the large areas of land and the rates attracted Opposition that we must be quite clear about by them will be very considerable. It seems what is involved in the second principle con­ to me that these people will have little or no tained in the Bill. It is true, as the Minister need to use water from the Petrie dam, said, that where a town water supply passes except perhaps for domestic purposes or the a property in a local authority area, includ­ watering of stock. I hope that these points ing the city of Brisbane and any provincial will be looked into, because considerable city, certain rates are applicable irrespective hardship may be imposed upon people with of whether the owner uses the water or not. fairly large areas of land who have their own Many town councils in small areas have irrigation plants drawing water from creeks their own water supplies. I can recall one in the vicinity or from the river. They will place, namely, Chinchilla, where the local not need to use the water that passes through authority built a weir and installed a filtration their properties to areas of residential plant to serve that small town. It seems quite development. I shall be glad to hear what evident that the Government has in mind the Minister has to say on this point. the position that will obtain with the building of large weirs or dams farther out from towns :Mr. COBURN (Burdekin) (12.26 p.m.): I than the weirs built by local authorities for listened with great interest to the Minister's small town areas. Whilst the dams close to introduction of the Bill. I am in agreement Warwick and Gympie, for instance, have with the first principle, at least, because when been built to assist men on the land, it has a contractor has assembled his plant and also been clearly indicated that they will gear and erected certain buildings, his boost town water supplies should that be expenditure in some cases may be substantial necessary. One can well imagine water from and an advance could well be made to him. larger schemes that the Irrigation and Water I can foresee difficulties in connection with Supply Department may have in mind passing the second principle proposed, and it came properties already receiving water from local to my mind that something along the lines town supplies. It is quite evident that some suggested by the hon. member for Aspley charge will be made on those occupying such might occur. Some people might have properties. It seems to me, from listening to land so situated that the water main passes what the Minister has said, that the charges within 300 feet of it and yet have no use will be different from those applying in for the water it is carrying, the principal Brisbane and provincial cities. purpose of which is to serve a residential area. Whether or not the Minister would Mr. Richter: They vary in the local author­ ity areas now. have power to forego rates under circum­ stances such as that, I do not know. Mr. NEWTON: That is what I am trying Mr. Richter: This will apply only in a to get at. It seemed to me that the charge declared irrigation area. Does that make it for water passing properties will be based on clear? the improvements effected to those properties. Will that be the position? Mr. COBURN: Yes. That was not made Mr. Richter: There are various ways of clear in the Minister's introductory speech. doing it. The statement then made was that if the main was laid within 300 feet of land, the Mr. NEWTON: If a farm was in full pro­ land was rateable. What the Minister has just said has made the position very clear. duction, the full rate would have to be paid. It seems that there will be a sliding scale to People who do not wish to make use of the allow people to get on their feet in these water are in a somewhat similar category areas. If that is so, it is a good scheme. to those living in a town where it has been decided to install a reticulated scheme of I shall be pleased to look at the Bill to see water supply. The position on the Burdekin if it does in fact do these things to which is rather peculiar. Hundreds of thousa..J.ds of I have referred. pounds have been spent on the provision of Irrigation Acts Amendment Bill [16 MARCH] Irrigation Acts Amendment Bill 2603

windmills and electric pumps and in put­ household supply where the water is used for ting down spears, and for many years people domestic purposes. I know that the Co~­ have drawn considerable quantities of water missioner for Irrigation and Water Supply IS by these means. When the water supply well aware of this state of affairs. I do not scheme is instituted, all these properties will doubt that he is doing his utmost to try to be rated irrespective of whether or not they bring about an improvement, but I s.hc;mld use the water. A central scheme is prob­ like both the Commissioner and the M1mster ably a good thing because it is impossible to know the feeling of the people in the to provide sewerage without it, and in this area and how they are revolting against a modem day and age we must have sewerage. water supply of such an unsatisfactory In instances where the Irrigation and Water nature. Supply Department implements a water Mr. WALSH (Bundaberg) (12.32 p.m.): I supply, I think there should be an obligation gather from the comments of the hon. mem­ upon it to supply water suitable for the pur­ ber for Burdekin and others that there are pose for which it is intended. I have in two principles in this Bill. I cannot sa¥ ~hat mind the water supply at Clare, where the I rise to discuss them from what the Mm1ster water is so discoloured and murky that there has said. are continual complaints about it, particu­ larly from the housewives. After talking Mr. Richter: You were not here. the matter over with the Commissioner of Irrigation and Water Supply, I realise that Mr. W ALSH: No. I was not here; I was it is not an easy job to clarify the water and in other parts of the building. that it could be a very costly operation. How­ If the Minister accepts what has been said ever, there is the instance of the school swim­ by the members who have spoken-and ming pool, which has not been used since last whom I have heard-I think he will agree October. Since then there have been many that there are at least two principles in the excessively hot days when it would have been Bill. The first apparently, will give the a boon to the children to use the pool; but department authority to pay advances to con­ because the water was so discoloured it was tractors on the purchase of their plant after it impossible to :see more than a few inches has been assembled, and so on. through it, and the parents, because of the pos'Sible danger, refused to allow their chil­ Mr. Richter: As we do now, under the dren to enter the pool. Sometimes the water Farm Water Supplies Assistance Act. becomes clearer, but these people tell me that Mr. WAL§H: It is all very well for the they are not notified of the state of the water. Minister to say it is being done under the This applies particularly to the housewives. Farm Water Supplies Assistance Act. The One very irate lady from Clare telephoned Government is not doing much under that me recently and went so far as to say that Act. If it does as much for these people as she would have to enter one of the wards of it does under that Act we will not have to be the Townsville Hospital for mental treat­ worried about it. ment if something was not done to improve the water supply. She had just washed her Mr. Richter: We do quite a lot under that daughter's white dresses and hung them on Act. the line and they turned out more or less Mr. W ALSH: I was somewhat amazed at the colour of the furniture in this Chamber. the socialistic tendency of a Government and Putting a dark-brown dye into the water a party who are so prone to take the hustings would have had the same effect as the water and complain about free enterprise not being supply had in this case. Subsequently, she given a fair go by Labour Governments. brought in to me some of the garments she This is another proposal, brought down by a had washed in her washing machine and Government and a party who have attacked they were streaked with great brown marks. this system so violently in the past, which She said, "Will I send them to the Minister showns a desire to usurp the functions of the for Local Government and Conservation?" banks and make advances available from the I said, "Yes. He would be pleased to see limited resources of the Government itself. the effect of the water on them." Whether If the Minister is going to provide that these or not she sent them, I do not know, but advances shall be made through the Agri­ if the Minister saw them he would realise cultural Bank, does not he and the Minister why complaints are coming from these people for Lands sitting beside him, agree with me in an area where water is being supplied. that there will be less and less money It might be possible to add some chemical available for the real development of virgin to the water or to install a filtration land in this State? The Minister for Lands plant to improve it, but its condition at the may shake his head but he knows that when moment is such that complaints are numerous the Premier and the Treasurer go to the and vociferous and are made with the Loan Council they will have to cut their cloth greatest indignation. according to the moneys made available to I should like the Minister to examine this them by that body. matter. If . the Department is going to Mr. Fletcher: It does not cost any more charge people for a product it should be this way. obligatory for them to supply it in a condition that will make it usable for the purposes for Mr. WALSH: I have yet to see the day which it is supplied; in this case it is a when the Minister becomes a Social Creditor. 2604 Irrigation Acts Amendment Bill [ASSEMBLY] Irrigation Acts Amendment Bill

If it is a direct advance to the party con­ declared irrigation area, there is nothing to cerned, what will be the terms and conditions? stop the authority from exercising a little How long will the advance be for? intelligence and common sense, and declaring every area where there is an irrigation scheme Mr. FJetcher: Repaid by the authority-­ an irrigation area. Mr. W AL§H: I should imagine that some­ Mr. Richter: It would be pretty silly, body has to repay it. As I visualise the wouldn't it? position, the proper approach would have been for the Government to guarantee a Mr. WALSH: No. If the circumstances loan through a bank-not to make inroads justified it, of course it would not be silly. into its own finances, limited as they are. Surely the Minister realises that the purpose That is my complaint. If the Government for which the authority is given under the is to make these advances from its own funds Local Government Act to city and town repayable over a period of years, it must councils does not apply in the case of shire produce-- areas. Much of the land that is held by landholders in these localities would certainly Mr. Richter: It will be taken off the not be suitable for subdivision. They may advances. have their own surface water supplies, run­ Mr. WALSH: I have heard a bit about the ning streams and so on. Are they to be asked contract system. A few unfortunate people to pay? Those are some of the questions around Bundaberg started ·to get homes built. I ask, because this has not been explained. They got half-way through and found them­ I have not heard any other member refer selves tied up with liquidation or something to them and, if the Minister has not else. The Minister is not going to get out explained, he can well understand why I ask of it so easily. It is the Government's them. problem, I realise. Mr. Richter: What we propose to do is Mr. Fletcher: I think you are a bit confused already done under regulation. There wili about this one. be no charge in the procedure. This is merely validating what we are doing by Mr. W AL§H: If there is any confusion, regulation. the Minister for Lands is the one who would make it more confused. I say that from my Mr. WAL§H: I think the Minister should experience of him here. keep quiet, because he is putting his foot If there are to be advances from the into it. In other words, he has been Government's limited funds it must interfere committing the offence that was complained in some way with the advances made to about from this side of the Chamber when bona-fide settlers who want to develop their the Minister's party sat over here-govern­ land. However, we will wait and see. It ment by regulation, and, worse still, by may be one of those curious provisions where regulations that are not in accordance with real!y not much will be done about it. It the provisions of the Act. may again be just a bit of window-dressing. I l'.;ir. Richter: I am not saying that. I am realise that there is a lot of humbugging with advances under the Farm Water Supplies simply making it clear. Assistance Act. Although I do not have Mr. WALSH: The Minister is introducing many applications from my own electorate, I legislation to validate something the got a few complaints from my neighbour Government has done in the past. Apparently concerning the electors in the Burnett area. it has not been too sure. That is not I believe there is some delay there. a bad way of doing it, I suppose-com­ The principle of the right of a water mitting the murder first and then explaining authority to charge a rate for land that may it afterwards. be within a given distance of a weir or I realise that there has to be a new passing main is accepted under the Local approach to many matters relating to water Government Act. There is a very good supply. When we pick up the morning reason for that. If anybody seeks to hold newspapers, particularly these days, and look up any considerable area of land within a at the country palle, we see that the major developed city or town area, rather than allow cities from Rockhampton down are com­ him to merely continue to hold the land, plaining about a shortage of water, the particularly for speculative purposes, he is contamination of underground supplies, and asked to make some contribution over the so on. All these complaints draw attention years to the interest and redemption of the to the necessity for new approaches to the expenditure incurred on the main. I think problems. I should not like to try to that is a very wise provision. Such people imagine what the position would be in come under a special rate that is applicable Toowoomba and Warwick if those local to unoccupied areas. In each case I think authorities had not been encouraged by they would be charged so much in the £1 Labour Governments in the past-on a 50 on the unimproved value of the land. per cent. subsidy basis. without any repay­ But when the authority goes into a rural ment-to carry out water supply schemes. It area the picture is entirely different. Even was certainly a very wise plan, although though the Minister might say that this can unfortunately it was related to circumstances happen only in what may be described as a of unemployment in the depression years. Irrigation Acts Amendment Bill [16 MARCH] Irrigation Acts Amendment Bill 2605

I_n my own area, while people have been The hon. member also raised the possibility tellmg me about the unlimited underground that some equipment may be under hire water. supp_Iy, I am sure that Mr. Ha1gh, purchase. No advances w!ll be made unless who IS domg much research work in the the plant is owned by the contractor. Burnett district and elsewhere, is becoming more and more convinced that problems lie There has been much comment about ahead for Bundaberg and the adjoining areas this Bill's giving power which overrides which depend entirely on underground that of the local authority. As I interjected supplies. If Bundaberg is to develop on an when the hon. member for Bundaberg was industrial basis, I have no doubt that speaking, this applies only in a declared sooner or later some provision will have to irrigation area. As the hon. member said, be made for other than undero-round water we could declare the whole of the State supplies. As we see it now, !~ea! residents an irrigation area. But I do not think he have to suffer because of diminishing under­ gave that r:emark his usual-- groun? s~pplies. If there were inroads by a ·major mdustry in the area it is obvious Mr. Walsh: Wherever you have an irri­ that there would be more hardship for the gation project, yes. local residents. Mr. Rl!CHTER: It was rather a silly I hope that when Mr. Haigh submits his remark, not worthy of the hon. member repo~t it ~ill cover the necessity for giving for Bundaberg. He does not usually speak consideratiOn to the construction of a weir. in that strain. Because of the tidal stream it will have to be at some place well outside the Bundaberg Warwick was mentioned by the Deputy area. This must be done for the futur~ Leader of the Opposition. This provision of the town. The Bill may contain some will not apply to Warwick because it is authority or power which will be essential not a declared irrigation area. Warwick's to new development under that heading. water supply, under an agreement between the Commission and the Warwick City I am not opposing this measure other than on the grounds of the hardship which Council, will come from Leslie Dam. could be inflicted on those who own land Mr. Newton: The same applies to Gyrnpie. mu_ch of which we call grazing country and which could never be subdivided for any Mr. RICHTER: Yes. other purpose. If there is a renu]ation under which, if they are in ; given The hon. member for Belmont commented P

Mr. RICHTER: That may be so. Never­ Brisbane City Council parcels of land excised theless, encouragement is given to certain from Bowen Park. In addition, the associa­ contractors, especially the smaller ones. tion has purchased by private treaty 34 Many of our jobs are done partly by freehold titles, and 48 other allotments were contractors and partly by day labour. This resumed under the Public Works Land Bill will give the small man an opportunity Resumption Act, at the expense of the to get on, as he will be advanced on his association, to meet the expanded require­ plant to the extent of 80 per cent. ments of that body. The association is also using a small reserve and an area of I can see no merit in the complaints and vacant Crown land that was formerly a road. arguments that have been put forward. What It is desirable that title to the lands used the Bill contains was very fully considered. by the association be clarified and con­ As a matter of fact, all that we ask is to solidated so that people will know exactly be allowed to continue what is being done where they stand. now. As I mentioned before by way of interjection, there is some doubt about the I am sure that all responsible people will validity of the regulations. They have not agree that the annual district show in any been challenged, and we do not want them locality should be supported and encouraged. to be. The Bill merely enacts legislatively Shows provide members of the community what was done previously by regulation. I with an opportunity of coming together and do not know whether it would ever have displaying the results of endeavour in the been challenged, the Bill makes sure that district in the fields of agriculture, industry, now it will not be. the arts and crafts, and so on. Most hon. members are very familiar with what hap­ Motion (Mr. Richter) agreed to. pens at exhibitions and shows. Better Resolution reported. standards of living and production, in addition to many other benefits, flow from FIRST READING these undertakings, which largely are on a Bill presented and, on motion of Mr. voluntary and unpaid basis in so far as Richter, read a first time. organisation and management are concerned. In the case of the Brisbane Show, the efforts BRISBANE EXHIBITION GROUNDS of all those people who collectively provide TRUST BILL this great annual highlight are even more praiseworthy. The Brisbane Exhibition is INITIATION IN COMMITTEE often referred to as the "show window" of (The Chairman of Committees, Mr. Hooper, the State, and it is desirable that the efforts Greenslopes, in the chair) and objectives of the association be recog­ nised and fostered and the basis of its Hon. A. R. FLETCHER (Cunningham­ management placed on a secure and per­ Minister for Lands) (12.55 p.m.): I move- manent footing. "That a Bill be introduced to establish a trust in respect of the Brisbane In recognition of the considerable personal Exhibition Grounds." effort of so many of the public-spirited citizens of Queensland in providing district The purpose of this fairly simple Bill is show opportunities, the Government intro­ to create a special trust to control and duced this financial year a subsidy scheme manage the lands occupied by the Royal to assist show societies financially in their National Agricultural and Industrial undertakings. Association of Queensland for showground purposes. Mr. O'Donnell: The R.N.A. would not be Mr. Walsh: You do that now for all eligible, would it? the other show committees throughout Queensland. Mr. FLETCHER: Yes. Mr. O'Dmmell: Why? The area is used Mr. FLETCHER: This Bill deals with the for other purposes. Brisbane Exhibition Ground. The lands used by the Royal National Association are held under various tenures and this collec­ Mr. FLETCHER: That is true; the R.N.A. tion of tenures has grown' during the post­ does use its grounds for other things, apart war years, particularly during the last five from running its annual show; but, in effect, or six years, as a result of expansion in the all its efforts are designed to provide a bigger activities of the association. and better show, and of course it would be eligible for assistance under the subsidy The main exhibition ground, on which the scheme. The basis of the subsidy, as the main pavilion and the No. 1 oval are located hon. member probably remembers, is 33t per is held as a perpetual lease that was granted cent. of cost in respect of toilet facilities and to the association in terms of a special Act 20 per cent. in respect of all other works. introduced in 1920. The association sub­ Acquisition of land for show purposes is sequently extended its activities onto the area recognised, also, and attracts the payment of known as Alexandra Park, which was an old 20 per cent. subsidy. The various show grant upon trust made to the Brisbane City societies, including the R.N.A., have been Council for recreation purposes. From time very quick to take advantage of this assist­ to time the association has acquired from the ance, and, as a result, the general public Brisbane Exhibition [16 MARCH] Grounds Trust Bill 2607

will benefit from the improved amenities and the trusts clearly set out in the Bill. The facilities that will be provided as a result main advantage in this from the association's of this scheme. point of view is that it will have certainty For some time we have been negotiating of title and a more satisfactory charter as a with the R.N.A. on the question of the lands basis for its operations and future expansion. owned, leased, reserved or used by the I am sure that commends itself to the good association in connection with its annual sense of everyone. The association will have exhibitions. The Bill contains the new adequate security of tenure and will be charter under which the R.N.A. will function placed in a more satisfactory position than and is in keeping with agreements reached hitherto from the point of view of long­ with that body. term planning, particularly in respect of borrowing capacity. The Bill establishes a special trust called the Royal National Agricultural and Indus­ That, broadly, is the outline of the Bill, trial Association of Queensland Exhibition which I commend for the consideration of Ground Trust. the Committee. [Sitting suspended from 1 to 2.15 p.m.] Mr. Duggan: Couldn't you give it a shorter title than that? Mr. DUGGAN (Toowoomba West­ Mr. FLETCHER: It could be shortened; it Leader of the Opposition) (2.15 p.m.): In could be called the "R.N.A. Trust", if the advancing reasons to justify the introduction hon. member likes. of this measure the Minister directed our attention to the great variety of tenures that The trust it to consist of two trustees and operate at the present time on property owned those trustees are to be the two members by the Royal National Association. He has of the association who presently are the very properly drawn our attention to the trustees appointed by the association to details of those tenures, their types, and how manage its property. They are Mr. W. B. J. G. they have been acquired. We realise that, Sparkes, a former member of this Assembly, because of their complexity and because of and Sir George Green, a senior member of the administrative difficulties, there is perhaps the R.N.A. Council, who is well known in the reason for the council of the Roval National field of public benefaction. Provision is made Association to approach the Government in for the appointment of a third trustee if at an effort to remove those difficulties. No any time the association requests the appoint­ doubt there have been many consultations ment of a third member. between the parties concerned, and this Bill The Bill vests all the lands used by the is the result. association for show purposes in the trust The Minister indicated that in addition to for an estate in fee-simple upon trust for the land that has passed to the Royal National the members of the association to be used in Association from the Brisbane City Council accordance with the objects and rules of the and the Government, the association has, if I association. remember correctly, acquired 34 freehold The Bill extends corporate status to the titles and 48 allotments which have been trust and provides the necessary machinery resumed. That gives some indication of the dealing with such things as disqualification problems confronting the association. from holding office, vacancies of office and I can recall concern being expressed many the appointment of fresh trustees. All the years ago by councillors regarding their in­ encumbrances presently affecting the lands ability to stage, in the area available to them, used by the association are saved and carried a show of the size they desired. When it forward to the new grant. became apparent that the only means of The Bill also provides that property other substantial expansion was the acquisition of than land presently vested in the trustees be private homes, some resentment was expressed now vested in the new trust. Provision is by householders against such a move because made to enable the trustees to deal with the accommodation was not easy to come by. trust property by way of mortgage, lease, etc. However, they received, I think, fair com­ Mr. Duggan: Can they sell any of the pensation for the properties acquired from existing property? them, which doubtless enabled them to buy superior accommodation elsewhere, although Mr. FLETCHER: Not without the per­ it may not have been quite as convenient from mission of the Minister. The trust may dis­ the point of view of accessibility to public pose of land only with the consent of the transport. Minister. I regard it as appropriate at this stage to The Bill also provides that any lands sub­ join with the Minister in paying my measure sequently acquired by the trust may be of appreciation to the people controlling the vested in the trust and brought under the Royal National Association for the work they Act. are doing. It is regarded as a very important The Bill clarifies and regularises title to honour to be a councillor of the Royal the lands used by the association. In the National Association. I think it might be place of the perpetual lease, the trust grant said that it is almost as exclusive as, perhaps, for recreation purposes, the reserve and the the Queensland Club. It is a highly sought 80-odd separate parcels of land, the associa­ after honour to become a councillor of the tion will receive a grant as freehold subject to association, but in fairness to the people who 2{)08 Brisbane Exhibition [ASSEMBLY] Grounds Trust Bill occupy the position, privilege and responsi­ asked the sugar associations to build. a sugar bility, I say that they have earned it because pavilion on the R.N.A. grounds.. This woul~ it is very difficult to gravitate to the position not involve the R.N.A. in any capital expendi­ of councillor until one has served a long ture. However the sugar interests say that apprenticeship as a steward or in some other they are already providing adequate faciliti~s responsible position in the lower categories there. It is not my purpose to arg~e this of the association. One must do that before matter· I am merely drawing attentiOn to it is deemed prudent and desirable to advance the fa~t that the sugar associations and ot~er one to the position of councillor. interested bodies have been asked to bmld various pavilions at the Exhibition Grounds. From my close association with these gentlemen, I can say that they all work very The Minister intends in this measure to hard. It is a very important responsibility consolidate all the association's various titles and I think they discharge the responsibility to land. There should not be any great with distinction. As the Minister said, they objection to that, particularly in view of the do not receive any remuneration for their fact that the objects of the trust have been work, and it is not only a matter of spend­ specified. It would be a very ~oolish Minist~r ing their time during the currency of show. who did not take proper cogmsance of public Prior to the actual event, and indeed for opinion about the association's dispossessing some time after it, they are closely engaged itself in the future of land that was so on the work of promoting a bigger, better, laboriously acquired at relatively high cost. and brighter show. The people there would not want to sell There has been a good deal of controversy land unless they got an equivalent or better as to the site chosen for the Brisbane Exhibi­ deal. Any Minister would realise that, aftt;r tion. Many people consider, because of its all this is one of our show cases. It IS value, that the show society would be well us~d by the association to display our .advised to sell this very valuable industrial primary products, livestock and various other land and go out to an area where there is assets that are gathered together at that room both for their present requirements and place. their future needs. But, against that, I think I am not an expert on these matters, but it must be said in fairness to the a·ssociation I have been led to believe that the R.N.A. ilhat many of the fixed improvements that Show is one of the finest of its type in the have been built on the showground would Southern Hemisphere, if not anywhere. It be suitable only for a purpose similar to that is a very good show indeed. It has become for which they are used at the present time. something of a tradition for people from Anyone acquiring the land would either have all over Queensland to come to Brisbane for :to demolish some of the valuable assets on the Show in August. It is a gala week in it or use them substantially for the same pur­ Brisbane. It coincides with the school holi­ pose as they are used by the Royal National days. I think the councillors are seized of Association. Although it is very easy to their obligations to the public, and have point out that there are some disadvantages progressively effected improvements to the associated with the present location, it would orounds. Obviously it would be difficult to be very difficult to find within a reasonable please everybody. There will alv.:ays be distance from the city a sufficient area of complaints, particularly when vested mterests land that is served as well by trams, buses feel that there is some deficiency in the and trains. When we have big carnivals facilities provided. They become critical, and international and interstate football and whenever there is criticism, whether it matches and other sporting events, many be of a Government or anybody else, a people are concerned that they have to park good deal of publicity is always given to it. l'elatively distant from the arena. However, I With the funds available to it I think that the do not think there are any greater difficulties R.N.A. has done a very good job. In general here than there would be with most similar terms, I should like to commend the work events in other parts of the State. I know it is doing. that with the Toowoomba Show, which is by no means comparable with the R.N.A. Show, The Minister indicated by reply to an many people are obliged to park their cars interjection that the association is eligible at least as far from the entrance gates. The for certain subsidies. It may be helpful present location, too, allows the great bulk if he would refresh everyone's memory on of the people to use a convenient and the basis of these subsidies. I think he Telatively cheap form of transport. said that there was a subsidy of 33-} per cent. for toilet facilities and 20 per cent. I visualise the time when the association for other capital works. will be called upon to build stands that will extend across the existing roadways. Because Mr. Fletcher: That is so, so long as it of space limitations they will have to do is for show purposes. something like that. Their ability to extend is limited by physical comiderations. Gregory Mr. DUGGAN: There does not seem to Terrace, Bowen Bridge Road and O'Connell be any need for elaboration. Such assistance Terrace prevent further expansion unless they helps national associations and agricultural go over those roadways. societies. When money is paid out for those An appeal has been made by the President purposes it comes out of general funds and ,Qf the R.N.A., Mr. Wadley, for support from there is some reduction in the allocation of public-spirited bodies. For example, he has funds for other purposes. However, the Brisbane Exhibition [16 MARCH] Grounds Trust Bill 2609

Government has accepted it as a matter of I hope the Minister will not give carte policy and I do not think we should be blanche authority for authorities to dispossess niggardly. The public benefits from it. themselves of land in the future because there may be some monetary gain in selling an There are many pessimistic people in the area which is particularly suitable for some community who have predicted that these industrial enterprise. I do not think there shows will collapse. However, judging from should be any power in the trust to dispose attendance figures and displays, that does not of land for that purpose unless the members seem to be the case. The commercial atmos­ of the trust can show that there is alternative phere to be found in the pavilion is a matter freehold land in the area which can be for some regret. I recall that many years acquired as compensation for the area sold. ago one saw greater varieties of handicraft I should think that would be the only factor work than today. The main pavilion is now governing the decision of trustees and coun­ largely a conglomeration of refrigerators and cillors in embarking on a course such as various other electrical appliances and I have indicated. It is very valuable land consumer goods which are available in the and we should ensure that, while these shops. I admit that they are displayed in people are performing a public service, the a very convenient form for people who land should be kept as a public trust in attend the show, and for revenue purposes perpetuity. I suppose the association looks to them for the revenue they produce. Many years ago There are one or two aspects of the matter there was quite an attractive exhibition of I shall look at when the Bill is printed. furniture. Today, only one or two makers From what the Minister said, its general of high-class furniture exhibit at R.N.A. principles seem praisewort_hy. The peopl_e shows. who have sought this assistance deserve 1t because of the initiative they have shown Although there has been a decline in the and the progress they have made during the type of displays in the pavilion to which period they have acted as trustees of the I previously referred, there certainly has R.N.A. been no decline in the livestock exhibits. On Mr. WINDSOR (Ithaca) (2.31 p.m.): I the contrary, there has been an improvement. support the Bill, more from the po_in_t of An opportunity is given for assessing view of congratulating the former Mrmster, standards, and international judges help to the hon. member for Fassifern, than for any improve varieties and qualities. In that way other reason. When I was elected as tl~e a direct benefit is gained by the State. member for Fortitude Valley, the Garr I think that, having established that shows Government was threatening to resume some serve a very useful national and State purpose, of the houses close to the Exhibition having acknowledged that many people work Grounds. Many of the home-owners were friahtened out of their homes and accepted very hard and do an excellent job, and half of the value of their properties. that the shows serve the interests of the general public, it is not unreasonable to Mr. Hanson: That is a lot of rot. approach the Government for some measure of assistance in trying to sort out the present Mr. WINDSOR: It is not a lot of rot. tenures. They knew they would have to g~t out of their homes, and they got out whrle the Seeing that it is proposed to accede to aoing was good. They were sorry after­ the association's request in these matters I ~vards when they found that 20 or 30 people should like an emphatic assurance from the would not budge, and the R.N.A. would not Minister that the public interest will prevail pay the price demanded. at all times. If the Government is to do I took the hon. member for Fassifern anything it should be in the way of giving to that area on about four occasions and power to acquire additional land. Park showed him these properties. On one land should not be handed over, although occasion I asked him what he considered it is looked at rather enviously. I do on·~ particularly property was worth and he not think there should be any encroachment said, "About £3,000". I took him to another on park land. Land is often lost gradually property about 100 yards away and asked for deserving purposes. In Toowoomba I him to assess its value. He said, "About have seen Girl Guide huts, Boy Scout huts, the same as the other one". I said, "Yesterday, croquet lawns, bowling greens, and various this one was sold for £12,500." things of that nature put on park land. I told him that I did not consider it fair In the initial stages they brought a trans­ that these people should be chased out. of formance to ugly, undeveloped land which the area without getting fair compensatiOn was sometimes neglected by the local to enable them to establish themselves else­ authority. Because there has been a trans­ where as comfortably with the same con­ formation people think it is a good idea. venience. He approached the R.N.A. and The department or the Minister have estab­ told them that a fairer price would have lished a precedent by allowing some small to be offered. encroachment on public land, but as the I do not advocate establishing the population increases it is difficult to find Exhibition Grounds miles out of town. I substitute park land. think it is now in the most convenient area. 86 2610 Brisbane Exhibition [ASSEMBLY] Grounds Trust Bill

I rose to tell the Committee how a former There are other areas of land presently Minister and I worked together for the contained within the area known as the good of the working people in that area. Exhibition Grounds that I believe are not used to their optimum capacity throughout Mr. LICKISS (Mt. Coot-tha) (2.33 p.m.): the year. In years to come, this land can When a facility such as this has to expand be dealt with. in a developed city there must, of course of necessity, be a certain amount of gro~ing The main purpose of the Bill is to facilitate pains, and today we see the result of neces­ administration of the lands by the Depart­ sary expansion having been carried out by ment of Lands and the Titles Office, and to the R.N.A. Today we have a patchwork greatly assist the R.N.A. I have much quilt, as it were, of land title in this area. pleasure in supporting the legislation. I congratulate the officers of the Department of Lands for having sorted out this some­ Mr. HUGHES (Kurilpa) (2.39 p.m.): I have what complicated problem and for preparing a very brief submission to make concerning this Bill, which will reduce the land to a the Bill. Obviously it sets the seal on the common denominator and then issue it back retention of the showgrounds in their present to the R.N.A. in a consolidated form in position. This is a very debatable point and a deed of grant in fe·e simple in trust. has been the subject of much controversy for many years. It could well be said that An argument that can be put up in regard the amount of capital invested in the present to the development of the R.N.A. in this site makes it desirable that it be retained. location is the long-term wisdom in continu­ However, I do not intend to enter into an ing the development of a facility of this argument on that subject. nature where it is prese·ntly located. Trans­ port has been a problem for some years: The point I wish to make is that if the as against that, it is close to the centre of exhibition is not shifted to some other site population. So one could cancel out the and if the central area becomes a sports other. The problem is whether we are nsin" centre for Bri>bane and the other area is the land to its optimum capacity. I believe this used adequately throughout the year by to be one of the thin<;s that must concern all business, industry, and commerce, perhaps of us. One wonders for how long the the council of the R.N.A. will have to recon­ Brisbane Exhibition will be held at the sider some of its policies. The exhibition present site, and whether in other large cities portrays all aspects of life in the State, and of the world similar facilities have had .to if people are to continue to accept it and be shifted in accordance with planning put up with the chaos that it causes in arran!Zements. The principle contained in transport, it must be good and cater for the Bill poses this question, and I beFeve the paying public, the people who, in the that we have to study the situation to see long run, make it possible. On this score, whether future extensions can be adequately I question the wisdom of the association's catered for in the present location. decisions in recent years to raise admission charges. It has occurred to me that it Mr. Davies: Where would you suggest might be better to lower the charges and the grounds be moved to? attract more people to the show. A man Mr. LICKISS: I suggest that the hon. might take his wife and family on more member who interjected look after the affairs than one occasion if prices were reduced. of Maryborough and I will try to look after Mr. Davies: If we had Government con­ those of Brisbane. trol over prices, there might be some advan­ The main purpose of the Bill is, as I tage in that. mentioned before, to bring the lands presently held by the R.N.A. under various titles and Mr. HUGHES: I know that the hon. tenures to a status at which a deed of grant member supports a socialistic policy, even to in fee simple issued in trust can be handed the extent of controlling the time at which a back to the R.N.A. I think that is a very man may make love. commendable thing to do. In fact, it is common sense, because the longer this It is really a question of what admission arrangement is delayed the more complicated charge should be made to the public to will become the administration of the lands enable them to see a show that provides for the Department of Lands, the Titles worthwhile educational entertainment. In this Office, and the R.N.A. respect I believe that there is an obligation on a ~how society such as this, which has I compliment the Minister for taking this the assistance of the local authority and of action. The R.N.A. has shown itself to be the Government in the presentation of its a tremendous asset to Queensland. The exhibition, to see that it does not cost people exhibition each year is Queensland on show, out of the showgrounds, and I believe that the and the community is indebted to those who obliaation is heavier than that cast upon have over the years taken office in, and looked priv~te enterprise and commercial under­ after the affairs of, this association in Queens­ takinas in regard to prices. Although I pay land. Irrespective of whether or not the tribute to the council of the R.N.A. for the Exhibition Grounds are ultimately situated manner in which it has conducted the show elsewhere, the sports ovals and many of the and made improvements each year, I believe buildings could be used in years to come in that facilities available to the public still their present situation. leave something to be desired. As I said Brisbane Exhibition [16 MARCH] Grounds Trust Bill 2611

earlier, a lower admission charge would asphalt jungle. Land should be set aside, probably attract people to the showgrounds and even decked with beach umbrellas, on more than one occasion. People who to provide a little more for the convenience have space in the pavilions and the side­ and welfare of the patrons as distinct from show men pay big prices to the R.N.A., the continuous endeavour to get numbers and they would probably be interested in through the turnstile in order to give the paying a price per foot for their space based association a handsome return. I think there on the number of people who passed through is more to running a show than that. I do the turnstiles. Each and every year the council not think the society has been realistic in of the R.N.A. is hopeful of setting new facing up to the fact that more than just attendance records. In the last few years it carnivals, fat cattle, etc., are needed to make has had difficulty in doing so, and I have a show. It needs a family atmosphere about thought on a number of occasions that this it to really portray, in a very friendly may be because of the high admission atmosphere, the products of the State and the charges, particularly those for the children. type of people in it. I believe the R.N .A. The stage has been reached where in some could achieve this objective by providing instances the financial burden on the ordinary more of the facilities that the public need. John Citizen in taking his wife and children to the show has become onerous, and these Hon. A. R. FLETCHER (Cunningham­ are the people who make the show a success. Minister for Lands) (2.48 p.m.), in reply: I should like to say how much I appreciate Mr. Hanson: You think they should reduce the helpful and co-operative attitude of the admission charges? those hon. members who have expressed Mr. HUGHES: Yes, I think charges an opinion as to the merits or demerits­ should be reduced, and children should be they have stuck mainly to the merits-of the allowed in for a peppercorn. If this were Bill. done, I believe that more people would attend The Leader of the Opposition, as indeed the show and that it would be an even greater I would have expected because he is intelli­ :success. uent and generally a very fair gentleman, has Mr. Hanson: They keep a lot of showmen ;upported the idea behind the Bill. He refer~ed off the grounds by imposing high charges. in quite well-deserved terms to those ch01~e spirits who are privileged to serve as council­ Mr. HUGHES: Showmen would want to lors in the R.N.A. arena. These gentlemen pay for more space. I take children from have done very well and have established such various institutions to the show each year­ a reputation before the world that it is quite I pay tribute to the R.N.A. for extending an enviable achievement to become a this opportunity to inmates of charitable councillor. They have had their difficulties institutions-and I know many of the show­ but such difficulties have largely been forced men and the high charges they have to pay upon them by their geographic position. in relation to the number of people who They have done very well indee·d. attend the show. In my opinion, the R.N.A. I am pleased that the hon. member for m,ght be well advised to reduce admission Ithaca spoke so well of my predecessor in charges and thus induce more people to see office. He did no more than speak the what Queensland can, and does, produce truth when he suggested that the hon. mem­ . If _the R.N.A. is to be allowed to spread ber for Fassifern had lent his kindly counsels Its wmgs further and encompass a greater area on the matter of resumptions, in a situation o~ _land, it should adopt the policy of pro­ in which anyone with any compassion Wvuld VIdmg for the public facilities that are not be sympathetic to those who had to leave presently provided. I believe it is hard to their homes-some of them not very justify the very small space in the Exh1b:tion elaborate but nevertheless homes. Some Grounds available to the public to sit down of these' people though that the~ were and have a cup of tea. Such spaces are inadequately compensated and, followmg Mr. virtually non-existent. In fact, the only real Muller's wise counsel, a standard of com­ ~pace that can be utilised for this purpose pensation was established which v:as more IS on. the No. 2 oval and, of course, it is satisfactory from their point of view than only m the first few days when the grass the initial one apparently was. Indeed. by is green that this can be availed of without his personal intercession the hon. mem?er picking a spot between heaps of cow-dung. avoided the need for any sort of legal act•on which, of course, always leaves in its wake Mr. Davies: Have you ever served on the some regrets and heartburnings. council? The difficulty facing the association has Mr. HUGHES: No, but I have been been referred to by three or four hon. associated with the councillors closely enough members including the hon. members for to know that they do a good job. I do Mt. Coot-tha and Kurilpa. No doubt this is not know that any of them should be a matter which has caused the association a supplanted. But that is not the point. The great deal of concern. They must have had real point is that if they get more ground, to use a great deal of their valuable. time they should adopt a policy of giving the in discussing whether it would be WISe to public, who make the show, sufficient space leave the present central area and go out on which to picnic. At present the show­ to where there was more land available but grounds are little more than a concrete and where there would be certain disabilities. 2612 Brisbane Exhibition, &c., Bill [ASSEMBLY] Gympie Cemetery Bill

They would have had to weigh the dis­ generation, or the next, want to do what the abilities of getting out to a more abundant man who originally planned this area thought area of land against the obvious difficulties should be done, we must keep it as it is." of the present centralised position. Although I join with the Leader of the Opposition in there is nowhere to park very close to the having a very great sense of responsibility for present location, it has the advantage of preserving our park lands and other reserves bemg close to cheap public transport. Quite against those who would erode them away obviously they must have come to the final for a little immediate advantage, and leave conclusion that that was where they had future generations no advantages. better stay. This is evident from the amount of money that has been spent there in the I think I have covered the points raised last few years, mostly in assets that could by the hon. member for Mt. Coot-tha. not be moved. They have put up all sorts The hon. member for Kurilpa spoke of of buildings that would not be of very much the need to get families into the showgrounds use for anything but show purposes. That to take advantage of the undoubted enter­ must have been their decision-a very tainment and education provided. The expensive and permanent one. I have been councillors of the R.N.A. have that point handed a newspaper printed in 1964 in which very much in mind at all times. It is reterence is made to the fact that £500,000 prominently in their minds , as one of their worth of improvements had been made on objectives. I do not think they have done their land in the last 10 years. Someone who too badly up till now. I have very much would be in a position to know fairly pleasure in accepting the assurance of support accurately has told me that the total value from the Chamber. of the land, pavilions and other improve­ Motion (Mr. Fletcher) agreed to. ments would be over £2,000,000. Resolution reported. Mr. O'Donnell: They must be determined to stay there. There is no possibility of FIRST READING extending because it is economically impos­ Bill presented and, on motion of Mr'. sible. Fletcher, read a first time. Mr. FLETCHER: It depends on how much they have to spend, and what they want the GYMPIE CEMETERY BILL land for. The fact that they have acquired 80-odd allotments around them shows that INITIATION IN COMMITTEE they were prepared to spend a considerable amount on extensions. They have justified (Mr. Gaven, South Coast, in the chair) this action by saying that this is somethino­ Hon. A. R. FLETCHER (Cunningham­ very special which warants the expense. They Minister for Lands) (2.58 p.m.): I move-- may have to do more of that. I think every­ 'That a Bill be introduced to provide body who takes an interest in the matter agrees that they are doing a tremendous for the conversion to a public park and job for the State. There is a very good garden of a certain disused cemetery at relationship with the various industries which Gym pie." use the R.N.A. as their shop window. For This Bill deals with the old Gympie years they have been prepared to support Cemetery, which is situated near the Gympie the R.N.A. financially to a considerable Railway Station adjacent to the goods shed. degree. There is no doubt about the good It comprises an area of about 16t acres relationship between the R.N.A. and the and is prominently situated in that city. It people they mainly serve. is one of Queensland's early cemeteries, having been set apart for that purpose during Mr. O'Donnell: They don't make any profit, either. 1868, which is quite a long time ago. The site was not satisfactory, and the cemetery Mr. FLETCHER: No. Any profits that are was closed during 1886; it has been a source made through the turnstiles are immediately of annoyance to the city of Gympie ever ploughed back in improvements. since. The area is covered by a heavy body of grass, rubbish, and undergrowth. In the The Leader of the Opposition made some main, the few remaining tombstones, by appropriate comments about park lands being movement, such as being pushed around, by sacrosanct, and the inadvisability of en­ rubbish growing around them, and by croaching upon them, with which I thoroughly disrepair and other causes during the last agree. By coincidence, only this morning 80 years, cease to identify those in whose somebody from the country came to me with memory they were originally placed. There the proposal that I should allow him and is no record of the number, identity, or his partner to acquire some land which was reserved ab

Mr. O'DONNELL (Barcoo) (3.8 p.m.): I I do not think much more than that can be must say that the Minister has given a very done. One can realise why these records have clear outline of what is to be done under been lost when one knows that the cemetery the provisions of the Bill. When it was listed was used from 1867 to 1886, a period, no on the Business Paper, some concern was doubt, of confused settlement. Even though felt about the reaction that there would be there was a gold rush at the time, the popu­ to it. It must be appreciated that the town lation of the area would have been com­ of Gympie is one of the early historic paratively small and the use of the cemetery monuments to the development of the State. would not have been very great. We can all remember history books referring I indicate on behalf of the Opposition that to the discovery of gold in the Gympie area we shall be offering little or no objection to in 1867 as the most important early milestone anything contained in the proposed Bill. As a in the development of Queensland. Naturally matter of fact, I should like to say that I the thought came to mind that there would appreciate the way in which the Minister has be, associated with the cemetery, the names presented it to the Committee. I think he of very early pioneers of the State. I was has endeavoured, in expressing what is to be very pleased to hear the Minister's assurance done, to give every consideration to avoiding that there are no records existing from which unnecessary worries to anybody who might it is possible to identify the remains of feel that a leaf from the past will be lost. those who were buried in what is now a After all, the change will provide an ever­ central part of the city of Gympie. lasting memorial to people who gave some­ thing to this State in a period of its history The introduction of the Bill may lead to when pioneering was pioneering. action in other centres in Queensland where similar problems have arisen. I am well aware that, with the effiuxion of time and Mr. HODGES (Gympie) (3.16 p.m.): I the development of areas, certain unpleasant should like to comment very briefly on the problems have to be faced, and I can under­ Bill before the Committee. I thank the stand that when this idea was first mooted Minister and the officers of his department there was probably a thought amongst the for the very close co-operation and assistance civic fathers of Gympie and others who had I received in having this Bill introduced. I lived there for a considerable number of years feel that, without the co-operation of his that some disrespect may be shown in some officers and his department, this could have way. I am happy, therefore, to have the been a long-drawn-out measure and could Minister's assurance that this is not so and have taken some time to come before the that the council has been moving for quite Committee. a long time. I also spoke to the hon. member I also thank the Opposition for accepting for Gympie, Mr. Hodges, on this matter the measure as presented by the Minister. I and he told me that the move had been fully endorse his statement that the neglect made over so many years that any p~ople of this area is utter and complete. I feel who had any objections would have lodged sure that any hon. member who visited the them by now. A certain amount of publicity area and was told that it was an old cemetery will follow the introduction of the Bill today, that had been used for a period of only 18 and we may yet hear that there are people years in the early days of mining in Gympie with some thoughts on the subject. would feel that it had been completely It has been mentioned that the greater part desecrated. of the area, which is not really very large, Many Gympie people, the Gympie City is to be devoted to park and gardens. This, in Council, the Gympie Chamber of Commerce itself, will be a fine monument to the people and the Gvmpie Development League, have who pioneered this part of Queensland in the been agitating for 50 years for ~h!O better early days and who, perhaps because of the utilisation of this area. As the l'v1Illlster has passage of time, have been forgotten. There is s~i-i it is an area of possiblv 16t acres little to quarrel with in the fact that a limited right in the centre of the business part of the area is to be disposed of and situ~ted the resulting profits used for the beautifi­ section of the city of Gympie. It is in cation of the remaining area. I am sure that close proximity to the railwav station and i~ the people concerned will see that the area a ranidlv developing resinential area. It IS used for residential development will be a within 200 yards of the Gympie High School part of the cemetery that~ was either very and, as I say, there has been raoid develop­ Fttle used or not used at all, and the park ment of the area. Because of the fact that and gardens in the centre of Gympie will be the Gympie City Council could not accept a memorial to the pioneers of the area, even the responsibility of cleaning up the area though they cannot be named as all records and because the Gympie Cemetery Trust has have been lost. Furthermore, every con­ not sufficient finance to do anything with it, sideration will be shown to people who appear Gympie people as a whole, including t~e to have some connection with the deceased, city council and the cemetery trust, will because the Minister said-I do not doubt aopreciate the action now being taken by that it will be done-that the tombstones will the Minister and his department for its be moved to the cemetery that is in use now utilisation. I feel quite sure that the people and that the Crown is prepared, also, to pay of Gympie will appreciate any action that for the removal of remains to that cemetery. may be taken and that there will be general Gympie Cemetery Bill [16 MARCH] Burials Assistance Bill 2615

acceptance of the well-prepared scheme out­ Hon. A. R. FLETCHER (Cunningham­ lined by the Minister this afternoon, particu­ Minister for Lands) (3.23 p.m.), in reply: larly as there is an assurance that there will Briefly, I express my appreciation to the hon. be a respectful application of the plan for member for Barcoo for his acceptance of the the utilisation of the area. Bill on behalf of the Opposition, and assure the hon. member for Gympie that his very I feel that the respectful application of the fitting suggestion that we perpetuate the names plan for the development of this old cemetery of some of Gympie's pioneers will be given will lead to a place of beauty and usefulness and will at the same time retain the memory close consideration. of those who contributed in any way to the Motion (Mr. Fletcher) agreed to. advancement of the city and district. As I Resolution reported. said earlier, any action taken to put this area to better use would be much better than FIRST READING leaving it with its existing atmosphere and Bill presented and, on motion of Mr. tangible evidence of desecration. It will Fletcher, read a first time. remove an area of desecration from the inner city and replace it with an attractive park and playground site whilst retaining within BURIALS ASSISTANCE BILL the area-in the park-a monument referring !NITIATION IN COMMIITEE to what it represents and showing evidence of what the area was in early years. There (The Chairman of Committees, Mr. Hooper, will be a plaque directing visitors or relatives, Greenslopes, in the chair) if any are still alive, to the Gympie City Hon. P. R. DELAMOTHE (Bowen­ Council where any record or information can Minister for Justice) (3.27 p.m.): I move- be obtained relative to the existence of the old Gympie cemetery. Rather than its being "That a Bill be introduced to assist in a place of desecration, with the application the disposal of bodies by providing for the of the plan suggested by the Minister it will burial or cremation of deceased persons in be a place of beauty and usefulness, one certain cases and for purposes connected that will hold in respect the memory of therewith, and to validate certain burials." those who contributed in many ways to The Bill validates a procedure which appears the city and district. to have been in existence throughout the life of this State but which has not previously The Minister has given a very compre­ had legislative sanction. hensive outline of what is intended. Although it may sound a little parochial let me suggest, It will be apparent to all hon. members in order to further perpetuate the memory that someone must ultimately be responsible of the gold-mining days in Gympie, that for the disposal of dead human bodies that wh~n the subdivision of this area takes place are unclaimed. In Queensland, the responsi­ the streets forming part of the subdivisinn bility has always been accepted by the Crown and over the years the Department of Justice could bear the names of some of the has made all the necessary arrangements. prominent gold mines which contributed so Recently it was found that in all the years much to the welfare of the State. since Queensland's foundation this procedure Mr. Duggan: Have they done anything in has been carried out without any statutory that regard in the existing streets? Do they sanction. recognise some of the earlier miners? It often takes considerable time to trace the relatives of a deceased person after he Mr. HODGES: In one or two areas, yes, has been identified and to ascertain whether but not so much the mines. The discovery there is any survivor who is willing and able of gold in Gympie virtually saved the to make suitable funeral arrangements, or Queensland Government from bankruptcy. whether the Crown should arrange what may At that time Queensland had about ?*d. be termed a pauper's funeral. In such a in the Treasury, and the discovery of gold case a body may sometimes be kept for many in that area contributed greatly to the welfare months until the department is in a position to know whether it should arrange for the of this State in its early years. disposal of the body. In fact, in Brisbane, All in all, I think this is an exceptionally where we have the facilities, bodies are kept good measure. There is no suggestion of under those conditions for very many months. I am sure hon. members will agree that this desecration about the utilisation of this area. situation is most undesirable. The general The plan will be applied with a great deal law on the matter is that it is the responsi­ of respect. Sufficient oublicitv wi'l be .r>iven bility of the survivors of a deceased person to it so that any distant relatives of those to see to the proper disposal of his body. buried in the cemetery will have ample However it is often impossible, or extremely opportunity to lodge claims for recognition. difficult, 'to ascertain or determine who are I commend the Minister for the introduction the survivors in a particular case. of the Bill and the hon. member for Barcoo As the failure to dispose of a dead body for his acceptance of it. It introduces a promptly can create a health hazard, over the principle which I think could be applied years in other places those authorities who throughout the State. are responsible basically for the health of the 2616 Burials Assistance Bill [ASSEMBLY] Burials Assistance Bill community have taken over the task of dis­ the benefit of being able to bury their mis­ posing of dead bodies where suitable arrange­ takes is made only in the most facetious ments have not been made by the survivors. manner. That could be why the Minister for However, as I have said, Queensland history Justice, who possesses a medical degree, is shows that the Department of Justice has charged with the responsibility of deter­ always shouldered this responsibility and it mining these matters. is now intended that it should be given legis­ It is extraordinary that Bills are introduced lative sanction. into this Parliament from time to time to In Britain the responsibility rests generally validate something that has been going on upon local authorities under the National for 50, 60, or 70 years. There seems to Assistance Act of 1948. The situation is be no reason, other than that, for instance different there in that the National Insurance in this particular case, a body has been keot Act of 1946 provides for a funeral payment, for eight months because no-one was acting and in the vast majority of cases the local in the matter, and the Minister feels that authority concerned is able to recoup itself someone should make a decision. In order from the National Insurance Fund. This to defend himself from any accusation that is not possible in Queensland. he or his officers acted wrongly, he now desires to validate those actions. It is proper The Bill, while providing that the Depart­ that that be done. But how have we been ment of Justice is initially responsible for able to do it for so long without legal disposing of any body where it appears that authority? no suitable arrangements for its disposal I do not want to take up any more of the have been or are being made otherwise, time of the Committee. It seems obvious empowers the Under Secretary of the Depart­ that action should be taken to clothe ment of Justice to recover the cost of the someone with the necessary authority funeral from the deceased's estate, or from mentioned by the Minister. I think the only any close relative. Hon. members will note other point requiring some comment concerns when they peruse the Bill that the list of costs. The Minister anticipated me by his persons from whom the cost of the funeral reference to that aspect. I do not think may be recovered is severely restricted. In anyone could properly say that he had been the case of a wife the only person is the calle·d upon to assume a financial burden that husband; in the case of a husband the only one would not expect him to shoulder person is the wife; and in the case of a without any argument. child the only persons are the parents. None of these persons is involved if the deceased's I think I would be merely wearying hon. estate is capable of carrying the burden. members by spending more time on this Bill. I think it is a simple straightforward Further than this, the Under Secretary is measure providing somethmg that is required. not obliged to attempt to recover any funeral The necessary power should be granted to expenses from the estate of a deceased person cope with these situations, and the sooner who was an indigent person, nor is he obliged it is done, the better. I would not like to attempt to recover the expenses from any to see a body held under such conditions one of the relatives I have mentioned if that one day longer than was necessary. relative is an indigent person. Mr. RAMSDEN (Merthyr) (3.36 p.m.): I Mr. Duggan: What about a brother or a support the Bill. Although I know that all sister? hon. members feel the same way about it and that no attack has been made on its D!I". DlElLAMOTHE: No, they do not come provisions I take the opportunity afforded into it. by this d~bate to make a plea to those in Beyond this, the Bill does nothing more authority, both secular and ecclesiastical, to than validate this Department's previous give more consideration to the general subject actions in this regard and provides a power of disposal of the dead. to make necessary regulations. Basically, in this modern day and age, with Under the present system there are on its population explosion and the increased occasions, inordinately long delays in' the number of deaths from ordinary causes that disposal of dead bodies, and this Bill should must occur among a larger population, plus assist in the prevention of those delays. the increasing toll of the road, a far more Recently lack of sanction to bury a body satisfactory method of disposal of bodies that had been kept for about eight months must be found than that which has served was brought to my notice, and I was asked us for many years past. how much longer it was necessary to keep it. In this small exercise, I should like very I commend the Bill to the Committee. briefly, without desiring to waste the time of the Committee but wishing to illustrate a Mr. DUGGAN (Toowoomba West­ point, to try to give a quick survey of the Leader of the Opposiiion) (3.33 p.m.): The practice of burial of the dead. The practice Government seems to be adopting a some­ came about in the first place because what sombre note this afternoon. The primitive man was forced to find some previous Bill dealt with cemetries and this way of getting rid of dead bodies; it was one deals with the disposal of bodies. I so unhygienic to live· with them. One way know that the accusation that doctors have to overcome the problem was to move away Burials Assistance Bill [16 MARCH] Burials Assistance Bill 2617 from the bodies. When grandfather died, western countries, the disposal of the dead it was easy for nomads living in tents to has resolved itself into either burial or pack up and move somewhere else. cremation. Gradually over the years a more satisfactory system had to be found for the hygienic Mr. Davies: You are not going to start and economic disposal of bodies. At the arguing about that? same time, consideration for the burial of Mr. RAMSDEN: No, I am not going to the body was demanded by the almost start arguing. I make the assertion that, in universal belief among all races in the my view, the ultimate solution must lie in immortality of the soul and its survival after cremation, and I make a plea to the State biological death. Throughout the years and a plea to the various religious bodies to ceremonies were devised to assist in the give some very serious consideration to the emotional readjustment of the bereaved and question. to ensure the proper disposal of bodies in the best interests of the community. Mr. Dav.ies: They already have. We have been talking this afternoon about Mr. RAMSDEN: I am very grateful to the burial of the dead. I think it might, the hon. member for telling me the views as a small exercise, be a matter of interest that other churches hold. to consider the methods of disposal that have been followed throughout the ages among Mr. Smith interjected. various races. There has been, of course, the Mr. RAMSDEN: I will exhort the ordinary method of burial. There has been Anglican community, and I trust that my col­ the method of exposure, to the elements league the hon. member for Windsor will and to the birds and animals. There has join me by doing the same in his own been cremation, and there has been preserva­ religious community. tion as carried out in ancient Egypt. There has been artificial decomposition, such as I think that the time has now come when often is employed in murder cases. There the churches, in their own varying beliefs and has been burial at sea or burial in water, responsibilities, should give very serious and there has even been cannibalism, in thought to this question to see whether or which the bodies of the dead have been not those who presently feel that cremation eaten. is not right and is contrary-- Mr. Davies interjected. Mr. Davies: Do you want to take those rights away from the respective churches? Mr. R.AMSDJKN: I thank the hon. member for his very sensible interjection, which is a Mr. RAMSDEN: In my opinion, they rarity. I will come back to it later. should give due consideration to the problem to see whether there is any valid reason. in Burial, of course, took place under varying the light of modern theology, for retaining conditions. There were coffins, urns or views that have been held for many years ossuaries in cemeteries. There were even past. different methods of exposure. Some bodies were staked out on the ground, others in Mr. Ewan: Do you advocate the use of tree platforms or in towers. There was, too, Roma gas for cremations? cremation or preservation, which could be Mr. RAMSDEN: I will leave that to the either partial or complete. Artificial decom­ hon. member for Roma, who is very capable position was effected by washing, scraping, of putting that view himself. Anyone who burning, and even, in some cases, by the use goes to a modern cemetery will see around of ants. him evidence of decay, evidence of long Mr. Houston: You have done a lot of vegetation, evidence of neglect; on the other research on this. hand, if one goes to-- Mr. RAMSDEN: I have done a lot of Mr. Davies: You go to the new Gympie research. In addition to all of those methods, Cemetery or go to the one out at Lindum as I said, there is burial at sea or in water, and cannibalism. Mr. RAMSDEN: We have just agreed to Mr. Davies interjected. the introducion of a Bill to deal with the old Gympie Cemetery. Mr. RAMSDEN: Often, when I look at the hon. member for Maryborough, I feel like Mr. Davies: Or to the one at N l. nbour. indulging in cannibalism myself. The ICHAmMAN: Order! Cannibalism can be entire or symbolic, and Mr. RAMSDEN: If one goes to the either immediate or postponed. All these Toowong Cemetery and takes a look at the methods of disposal have been adopted unsightliness there and then compares it with throughout the ages by different races of the crematorium at Mt. Thompson, I think varying beliefs and customs. that, from the point of view of ae>thetics Finally we come to the modern age, in alone, one would not have any doubt about which the problem of the di·sposal of the which is preferable. There is no do; 1bt in dead must occupy our serious thoughts if my mind which I would prefer. As the. hon. we are to bring the custom into line with member for Maryborough is so vocif ~rous up-to-date practice and thinking. In the in his interjections, I am sure he will g~:t up 2618 Burials Assistance Bill [ASSEMBLY] Burials Assistance Bill

and tell the Committee exactly where I am that it means, and, if those who come after wrong. I hope he does; after all, he has do not care for these cemeteries the way been interjecting so much that I am quite they should, that is no argument against the sure what he has to say will be of value to system itself; it is an argument against the us. I may add that I will give him a more laxity of those in charge and of those who courteous hearing than he has given to me. should care for such areas. I propose to tell the Committee of an Mr. Davies: Nambour has a very beautiful incident that happened some years ago. I cemetery. think you will remember it, Mr. Hooper. You may recall that, in your more humble Mr. BENNETT: Yes, and we have some days before your elevation to office, you well-cared-for cemeteries in Brisbane. In com­ shared a room with me and we were ap­ parison with cemeteries in other parts of the proached by a firm of undertakers in Brisbane world, Brisbane can take pride in its new one who, at that time, had been prosecuted for at Hemmant. There is a great deal to be said burying a body, I think it was on a Sunday for the method of burial at Hemmant. afternoon. Although I wholeheartedly respect the beliefs Again speaking from memory, I think it of those who favour particular methods for was a person who had been knocked down the disposal of the body, I do not think any and killed in a road smash on the Friday parliamentarian should precipitate or deliber­ and was taken to the undertaker's rooms. ately provoke a controversial argument on As the law stood at the time, the undertaker such matters. Speaking now in a personal was precluded from burying him on the sense-! visit a cemetery every Sunday. My Saturday or the Sunday and he was forced family and I get great solace and satisfaction either to break the law and bury him from those visits. We care for a particular illegally-which he did and for which he grave-and others as well-and derive a was fined-or to store him away probably great deal of contentment from being able to in most unhygienic conditions in the summer. relive our memories of the person we put there one sad day. I think it ill behoves any Mr. MeUoy: That is not right; they have hon. member to say what should be done in cold rooms for that. these matters because of modern methods and so forth. We hear a lot of bodgie-ism Mr. RAMSDEN: I am glad that hon. talked in attempted justification of the con­ members opposite know more about this case duct of the modern world. If people want to than I do. I can assure the Committee that adopt those standards, that is their business. what I am relating is factual and the facts On the other hand, if people want to preserve are not open to any other interpretation. In prestige and tradition, their finer thoughts view of the circumstances, I am pleased to and the sanctity of burial, why provoke an see the Minister bringing down the Bill but I argument about it? If we make provision repeat my plea to the various churches for all forms of disposal, we are doing our through their councils and synods to give job. It is completely unnecessary for any serious thought to meeting modern-day con­ hon. member to say that the things that we ditions and to readjust their theological have cherished over the centuries should be thinking in terms of burial of the dead so completely disregarded and thrown overboard. that we may have no need for new burial The hon, member has shown shocking grounds and may rely on crematoria in the callousness, and I am surprised at his future. embarking on such a proposal. If some people are persuaded to accept the modern Mr. BENNETT (South Brisbane) (3.48 method of disposal, let them be so persuaded, p.m.): I did not propose to speak to this Bill but let us not deride those who still cherish but the hon. member for Merthyr obviously the traditions of the past. spoke on a subject he knows little about. I feel that the churches concerned are more Mr. SMITH (Windsor) (3.53 p.m.): When able and more qualified to consider matters my colleague the hon. member for Merthyr such as this, that they have done so over referred to the unsightliness of the Toowong the years, and that the various interests have cemetery, he was not really assailing the good grounds and reasons for their decisions. virtue of interment. He was really criticising It ill behoves a man of the insignificance of the care of the graves in that cemetery. Some the hon. member for Merthyr to tell the of those graves, of course, would contain the churches what to do. remains of people long since dead, whose relatives also are long since dead. They Mr. Davies: It is sheer impertinence. would have fallen into disrepair simply because nobody presently living is greatly Mr. BENNETT: It is impertinence; it is concerned about them. Others, of course, arrogance and utter hide on the part of the have very fine monuments erected over them, member. He has cast some aspersions on and these have been maintained or are of the method of burial adopted by many people such a composition that they do not deter­ and by the Christian world over the centuries. iorate. However, the hon. member's criti­ He referred to Toowong Cemetery and so cism does direct some sensible thought forth. What the Toowong Cemetery may towards the development of cemetries in the look like from time to time is not an new style-graves with no headstones but indictment of the principle involved, which with the slabs at or below ground level, relates to the sanctity of the body and all which permits the authorities to keep the Legal Practitioners [16 MARCH] Acts Amendment Bill 2619 cemetery in order by mowing. In this way the Supreme Court, the Public Curator or the whole area presents a tidy, well-kept of any clerk of petty sessions (now the appearance, but still meets the needs of those Registrar of the Magistrates Court or Clerk people who wish to return from time to time of the Court), to sit for the various examma­ to the burial-place of their relatives; that is tions for admission as solicitors of the a very laudable ambition. Supreme Court of Queensland. Mr. Davies: That is the general aim now. Under this legislation a field of recruit­ ment has been provided, over the intervening Mr. SMITH: Yes, and it is a very aesthe­ years, for the Crown's legal offic.ers, alt.hough tically pleasing aim. The war cemetries in the number qualifying has been msuffic1ent to in particular are an excellent example of fill all vacancies. But the legislation has this development. I am strongly in favour of enabled several of our present-day stipendiary the retention of some open spaces around the magistrates to qualify for admission and to city. I feel we can combine utility with the be admitted as solicitors of the Supreme Court practical aspect by seeing to it that burial of this State. I think it will be agreed that places are preserved in an aesthetic, satis­ this is a welcome development. factory fashion. From time to time over the intervening I do not for one moment agree that, on years these provisions of the 1938 Act have the measure before us, it is necessary to go been amended, and in the year 1961 an into any wide discourse on the method of amending Act was enacted in conjunction with disposal of the bodies or to go beyond the making of new rules relating to the validating the disposal of such bodies in the admission of solicitors, and having relation community. I have pleasure in supporting to the prescribing of a new course of study the Bill. at the university known as the articled Hon. P. R. DELAMOTHE (Bowen­ clerks' course in substitution for a course of Minister for Justice) (3.56 p.m.), in reply: study with examinations conducted by the The support of the Leader of the Opposition Solicitors' Board, which up to that time had on this Bill, which covers a very small sec­ been the method of qualifying as a solicitor. tor, is very much appreciated, but might I In both the 1961 amending Act and the say how far the disposal of unclaimed new rules relating to the admission of bodies proceeded into a discourse on moral solicitors, various transitional provisions were conduct. designed to preserve the rights of students, I agree with the hon. member for South inside as well as outside the Public Service, Brisbane that the choice of method of burial to continue their studies of the old course, is, in ordinary cases, entirely a matter for which they were in various stages of com­ the individual relatives. I do not for a pleting, and to continue to sit for the examina­ moment think the hon. member for Merthyr tions conducted by the Solicitors' Board on intended his remarks to apply as they were that course. In other words, provision was taken up. I do not think any of the other made for those who were part-way through comments call for a reply. their course to continue and to sit for the Motion (Dr. Delamothe) agreed to. examination conducted by the Solicitors' Board. Resolution reported. The objects of the Bill are- FIRST READING (a) to place officers employed in the Bill presented and, on motion of Chief Office, Department of Justice, in Dr. Delamothe, read a first time. the same position as officers employed in any section of the Public Curator Office, LEGAL PRACTITIONFRS ACTS any Supreme Court Registry, any section AMENDMENT BILL of the office of a clerk of magistrates INITIATION IN COMMITTEE courts, or any section of the Solicitor­ General's Office, in being enabled to under­ (The Chairman of Committees, Mr. Hooper, take the prescribed course of study and to Greenslopes, in the chair) sit for, and to be admitted as, solicitors Hon. P. R. DELAMOTHE (Bowen­ of the Supreme Court of Queensland; Minister for Justice) (3.58 p.m.): I move- In other words, service over the whole period, "That a Bill be introduced to amend the or part of it, in the Chief Office of the Legal Practitioners Acts, 1881 to 1961, in Department of Justice, will count as qualify­ certain particulars." ing time for them to sit for their examination and to be admitted. The objects continue- The Bill, although it -seeks to amend the Legal Practitioners Acts, 1881 to 1961, really (b) to include, for the purposes of being follows amending legislation which was eligible to sit for the various examinations originated by the Legal Practitioners Act and for admission as aforesaid, in the Amendment Act of 1938. prescribed periods required to have been The 1938 Act enabled officers of the served in any one of the Public Service Public Service of Queenslnd, after employ­ offices previously mentioned, or partly in ment for certain periods in any one or more one and partly in another or others, service of certain offices, such as that of the Solicitor­ in the Chief Office, Department of Justice; General, the Crown Solicitor, a Registrar of and 2620 Legal Practitioners [ASSEMBLY] Acts Amendment Bill

(c) to modify the transitional provisions (iii) However, 11 officers who had of the Legal Practitioners Acts Amend­ advised the registrar of their intention to ment Act of 1961 whereby, subject to the sit for the November, 1964, Intermediate fulfilment of certain conditions, officers, as examination found they were not aforesaid, may continue and complete their sufficiently advanced in their studies to sit, studies and examinations for admission as and these include a number of older solicitors, in the course of study with officers who find study more difficult than examinations conducted by the Solicitors' do those with the higher educational Board of Queensland. qualifications available today. As regards the first two objects- I am informed that a subcommittee of the Solicitors' Board is at present considering (a) such action will remove an anomaly submissions for the amendment of the rules which exists when comparisons are made relating to the admission of solicitors to for these purposes of the various Public provide for the continuation of the examina­ Service offices concerned; tions conducted by the Solicitors' Board for (b) the Chief Office is now in a similar an indefinite period, so that these people position to the chief offices of similar concerned can be covered. departments of the Commonwealth and In relation to this lastmentioned objective. other States where certain legal admini­ the Bill therefore seeks- strative work of the department is per­ (a) To modify the times in which officers formed in the chief office itself; of the Public Service, in order to take (c) An incentive is provided for advantage of the "transitional" provisions younger officers in the Chief Office to of the 1961 amending Act, are to sit for commence their studies and to become examinations in the old course and to eligible for transfer to other offices of apply for admission- the department; and (i) in respect of the Intermediate examination by substituting for (d) An opportunity is given to the Chief "31st December, 1964," "31st December, Office of obtaining the services of officers 1966", or if some other date is fixed from the various offices of the department by the Governor in Council by Order who are studying the prescribed course. in Council published in the Government As regards the last objective, under the Gazette, then that day." In other "transitional" provisions of the 1961 amend­ words, they are being given a couple­ ing Act officers of the Public Service cannot more years than was envisaged earlier take advantage of the examinations on the to complete the Intermediate examina · old course for admission as solicitors unless- tion. If it is found at 31 December, 1966, that a few are still outstanding, (i) they were serving or had served in the Governor in Council can take action a Public Service office as aforesaid on to extend the time by a sufficiently small 4 December, 1961; period to cope with the situation. It (ii) They are admitted before 31 Decem­ is not expected that there will be any ber, 1970; and to be so provided for, but there could be. (ii) in respect of the last day for (iii) They presented themselves for admission, by empowering the Governor the Intermediate examination before in Council, by Order in Council pub­ 31 December, 1964. lished in the Government Gazette, to In the transitional period, arrangements as ext,end, if later he thinks fit, 31st Decem­ outlined were made to permit these people ber, 1970, to some other day; who had undertaken a course of study and (b) To remove certain anomalies at served some time to be carried forward in present applying to those who may still the course in which they started and be take advantage of the examinations con­ examined by the Solicitor's Board. ducted in the old course by- It is known that there are several officers (i) deleting the qualification required in the Public Curator offices and Magistrates of officers in the office of either the Courts offices who are in their various stages Public Curator or any clerk of magis­ of study of the old course, although the trates courts to pass the qualifying actual number is unknown. examination as prescribed for clerks of courts pursuant to the Public Service In the Supreme Court registries- Regulations before sitting for the (i) At least 16 officers are in their solicitors' examinations (this is not a various stages of study of the old requirement for officers of the Supreme course, four of whom are in their various Court registries); and stages of study for the first and second (ii) deleting the requirement of one sections of the final examination: year of further service in any of the prescribed Public Service offices between (ii) Of the four officers who presented themselves for the Intermediate examina­ the first and second sections of the final tion of the Solicitors' Board in November, examination. 1964, three passed and one failed the Accordingly, I commend the Bill to hon. examination; members. Legal Practitioners [16 MARCH] Acts Amendment Bill 2621

Mr. BENNE'IT (South Brisbane) (4.12 relating to the magistracy and the judiciary. p.m.): Mr. Hooper,-- It surprises me that Cabinet is so afraid of Mr. Ramsden: I hope you are going to the hon. member for Townsville South. I support this measure. It will allow you to often wonder why he can direct them and study law and become qualified. tell them when they should or should not appeal. He can say that this Government Mr. BENNE'IT: I thought that the hon. should tell the magistracy and the judiciary member for Windsor had suitably disposed of that they have been wrong in the quantum the hon. member for Merthyr 10 minutes of their sentences and in the decisions they ago, but he is back again. have made. It is true that I support the Bill. It It is surprising that such a man, unquali­ relieves some public servants of injustices fied as he i·s-he has no proper knowledge of that were created, perhaps unconsciously, by the particular subject-nevertheless is able the 1961 Act. The Bill that was then to dictate to the Government on matters of brought down, which made provision for law. I can assure the Minister, through you, educating young lawyers, in the main through Mr. Hodges, that the judiciary and the the agency of the university, made is pos­ magistracy are disquieted by the fact that sible for law clerks to attend a special study this Government takes such great notice of course at the university that would equip a man who is so completely irresponsible. them better, I think it was conceded, for It disheartens them in the application of their the practice of the law and give them a work; it gives them a feeling of frustration greater knowledge of the intricacies involved. in their dealings with judicial matters to At the same time, it was necessary also to know that they can be spoken about in this safeguard the interests of those who had place, which has been referred to by the already committed themselves to the erstwhile Minister for Labour and Industry Solicitors' Board examinations, or, for that as "a coward's castle" and "the circus at matter, the Barristers' Board examinations, the top of George Street," and that their and it has been found that, perhaps due to decisions can be queried at the behest of a the timing stipulated in the Act, there are man like the hon. member for Townsville some students who would be prejudiced, or South. I think such a situation gives a com­ perhaps even prevented from entering the pro­ pletely wrong conception of the functions of fession, because they would not be entitled Parliament and the duties of the magistracy. to sit for the examinations at the appropriate If we want to encourage a qualified time. It is only right that public servants magistracy, the fundamental principle we should be given the appropriate opportunity must inculcate into these young students is to achieve the results that they expect. the independence of the magistracy, that no It was pointed out at the time that one Government has a right to interfere with of the reasons for bringing down the 1961 their discretion in matters of penalty or the amendment was to aim at a qualified application of the law, and that no back~ magistracy. This Government is never bencher in Parliament without a knowledge anxious to insult the judiciary or the magis­ of such affairs can dictate to the Government tracy, but I think it was somewhat insulting in relation to the decisions they may make. to the magistracy when the then Minister for Justice said that the Government was Mr. Hughes: You would not suggest that aiming at a qualified magistracy. I have Parliament should be subservient to them, believed during my time as a practising without any right to appeal, would you? barrister that all magistrates are qualified. Mr. BENNETT: Parliament seems quite Although some are qualified in a different reluctant to enter into the controversy about manner from others, I believe that they are Mt. Isa. Hon. members opposite sav it is in fact all qualified as magistrates. I do not a matter for the Industrial Court. Why do know that the Government is doing much to they try to enter the field in any other prac­ achieve the aims that were expressed at that tice of the law and why do they take notice time in relation to the younger generation of the ratbag from Townsville South when who entertain ambitions to be qualified he tells them what they should do. magistrates. It is obvious that the existing magistracy have completed their courses of The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr. '3tudy one way or the other and we are not Hodges): Order! The hen. member for going to change them. It is obvious that South Brisbane has used an unparliamentary this Government is prepared to listen to the term. I ask him to withdraw the expression hon. member for Townsville South castigating "rat bag". and upbraiding magistrates from time to time and, every time he queries a decision by a Mr. BENNETI: I withdraw it, but it is a magistrate, every time he tells the Minister that term that has been used by the hon. member a magistrate's decision should be appealed for Townsvi!le South on many occasions and against, invariably with great alacrity Cabinet has never been queried. I do not know how follows his direction and says, "Yes, we will he can dictate to so many responsible consider an appeal." That is in spite of officials of Parliament. the fact that the hen. member for Towns­ Another factor in the training of these ville South has no knowledge of the circum­ men for the magistracy in order to obtain a stances of the case and applies himself very qualified magistracy relate·s to the use of tape irresponsibly to the problem. He is able to recorders, about which we have heard so direct the Minister and Cabinet on matters much over the last three to five years. Not 2622 Legal Practitioners [ASSEMBLY] Acts Amendment Bill

one has been installed in any court. We I make no observations on the qualities put a special Bill through Parliament to of those who have since been appointed to enable evidence in courts to be taken on tape the Supreme Court. I do not doubt their recorders. That would relieve the depositions qualifications; I think they have the capacity clerks who are, in fact, the training magis­ to carry out their duties. However, in the trates in the State, of the onerous duty of case of, say, Judge Andrews of the District pounding a typewriter all day and allow the Court, we have a man who worked hard to evidence to be taken down by tape recorder. give the correct impression to the public that But not one tape recorder has yet been it was a court of some substance when it was installed in any court. One is used by the reconstituted. I think the Minister has shown Licensing Commission, but that is not a poor consideration for the practice of the law court and it was being used by the Licensing by continually overlooking the District Court Commission before the legislation to which I judges, in particular Judge Andrews with refer was introduced. his ~nowledge and qualifications, in making appomtments to the Supreme Court. I said at that time that the Bill was indica­ tive of the hypocrisy of the Government Another undesirable practice has crept into which introduced it-there is much cheap, the appointment of articled clerks since the unimportant legislation on the agenda at the 1961 legislation was introduced. We well moment-purely to fill in the session. It remember with a certain amount of dis­ was done to avoid the discussion of matters of appointment that chemists are reluctant to major importance to this State. Time was employ apprentice chemists because they are wasted on whether we should have tape entitled to take time off during the week to recorders-a purely theoretical although attend lectures. Let me assure the Minister­ interesting discussion-without any idea or ! say this with some degree of diffidence­ intention of ever implementing the legislation. !hat unfortunately this attitude is creeping That was a long time ago, yet as far as I mto the employment of articled clerks in know no arrangements have yet been made the legal profession. Some solicitors are for the installation of tape recorders in the very good and take on as many articled courts. If we are going to improve the clerks as they can-sometimes more than standard of the depositions clerks and give they can cope with-but others are refusing them greater opportunities to study, let us to take on articled clerks because they relieve them from the typewriter. Further­ virtually have the right to attend lectures at more, I referred at that time to the short­ the university, and take time off for this hand writers we had at our disposal. In my purpose, so that they can equip themselves opinion the shorthand writers, skilled at their to pass the examinations and become work, take down evidence as well as any practitioners. I think the Minister should mechanical device. Seeing that we cannot see that the practice does not develop, and afford to buy mechanical recorders-! pre­ that all solicitors whose practice can justly sume that is the only reason they have not carry an articled clerk should be made to been introduced-why do we not use a accept one. qualified staff of shorthand writers? I have been disappointed because, in spite of my protestations, the Government has When practising as a lawyer in his capacity rc;:solutely ref~sed to allow complete recipro­ as Attorney-General, the Minister seems to City of practice between barristers in this have the impression that we should tell legal State and those in New South Wales. There practitioners what they should aim at­ are certain senior barristers practising at the what their ambitions should be. There is Bar in Queensland-- provision that a legal practitioner, a barrister of five years standing, may be appointed to The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr. the Supreme Court judiciary. He may also Hodges): Order! I ask the hon. member to be appointed as a judge of the District Court. come back to the provisions of the Bill before But the Minister has stultified the ambitions the Committee. of many lawyers to become District Court Mr. BENNETI: I understood it to be a judges, because apparently he is of the Bill to amend the Legal Practitioners Act. opinion that once a man becomes a District I . do not know the exact principles in the Court judge it is absolutely impossible for Bill as yet, although the Minister has indi­ him to be promoted to the Supreme Court cated them. I submit that I am entitled to Bench. He has dampened the ambitions of speak on the Legal Practitioners Act and those who might have accepted appointments suggest other provisions that should be to the District Court Bench but for the !ncluded in the Bill, if they are not being knowledge that they can expect no preference mtroduced. Of course, I could move an am~ndment if necessary. I appreciate your after appointment in that field. He has shown rulmg, Mr. Hodges, but the gag is applied scant gratitude to the three judges who recon­ so often in this Chamber that one very stituted the District Court at a time when it seldom gets an opportunity to advance new was under a lot of fire and criticism and ideas. subject to a lot of searching examinati~n by The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr. lawyers and others after it had been out of Hodges): Order! I inform the hon. member existence for at least a quarter of a century. for South Brisbane that I am not applying the He showed scant gratitude to those who gag. I ask him to confine his remarks to the successfully re-established the District Court. Bill before the Committee. Legal Practitioners [16 MARCH] Acts Amendment Bill 2623

Mr. BENNEIT: I am not suggesting, for Law Office, to secure convictions; rather is one moment, Mr. Hodges, that you are apply­ it their function to see that all available ing the gag, or have applied it, but there are evidence is properly put before the court. others who do-and the Government directs There was a time in Queensland when them to. prosecutions were carried out by independent The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: Order! members of the Bar. Th~y were not subject to any direction from the Solicitor-General Mr. BENNEIT: I am not aware of the or from the Government. They were able principles of the Bill. I have not seen it. to practise their professions as prosecutors From my previous experience of the Minister honestly and with integrity, without being I know that he overlooks certain principles told that they must get a conviction at all in Bills when introducing them and conveys a costs. I consider that the Crown's attitude wrong impression of what they contain. At in the Milgate trial was that a conviction times he gets into a state of confusion when should be obtained at all costs, and that introducing a Bill. I can only conjecture at a grave injustice resulted. the principles in the Bill, and suggest what they should be. I think I am entitled to do One day last week a Crown Prosecutor, that. properly carrying out his duties, should have entered a nolle prosequi before the end of During the discussion on the introduction the first day of a hearing. In spite of a of the 1961 legislation my Leader said that strong intimation from the judge the Crown he had some anxieties that a fence was being Prosecutor insisted on proceeding with the erected around the legal profession. At that trial. That resulted in its going into the time, quite frankly, I did not agree with the second day. The trial had to be taken suggestion. I felt that that would not be from the jury on the second day, but only possible and that it would not happen. But, after the accused was liable for the costs since 1961, to some extent it has happened. of the second day of the trial. If the Crown At the time my leader was merely querying Prosecutor had not feared his superiors and the possibility of its arising. I mention this this Government he would have readily very sincerely. If we are to tidy up the concurred with the obvious feelings of the 1961 legislation let us do it properly now. judge that there was not a case to go to There are some members of the profession­ the jury. He completely refused to take any fortunately they are in the minority-who action because he was a paid servant of the would have a fence erected around the Crown permanently employed by the Crown­ profession and who do not care about train­ not an independent person-and was not ing young students. They do not want to game to enter a nolle prosequi. He had see any competition enter into the practice to do it subsequently, after the accused of law so that high fees may be maintained had been saddled with the costs of the and those who are already qualified will be second day. He was paying the costs of in great demand. If we do not make it senior and junior counsel, as well as those possible for law students to attend lectures of his solicitor. That is not justice. freely-without any reprisals, without the possibility of their articles being cancelled­ I hope that the Minister, when introducing we will have a fence erected around the Bills of this nature, will ensure that men profession as obviously there is a fence in the Public Service, particularly Crown erected around the profession of practising Prosecutors, are clearly informed of their chemists. I think that is a matter which the responsibilities and duties. Minister should well consider. He should make it quite certain that any articled clerk Mention was made also of the Barristers whose legitimate absences during the course Board and the Solicitors Board and the fact of his employment are queried can report to that students will have to sit for examinations somebody in authority the person who is set by those two boards. I feel that the querying his absence. Minister is lacking in his duties in relation to that class of student. They get no help Although I am wholeheartedly in accord at all with instruction, training, or lectures. with giving every facility to legal men in the They are told that the examinations are set Public Service to qualify, I am becoming for a certain date, and that particular subjects increasingly anxious about the professional are involved. Thereafter they are left to Crown Prosecutors who are being trained in their own resources. They do not know the Public Service. I feel sure that my exactly what field the course covers, and colleague the hon. member for Windsor they receive no tutoring unless they pay for entertains the same anxiety, and I note with it privately. They get no instruction. They interest his question about the Milgate trial, are placed at a considerable disadvanta,ge, the answer to which I shall be very interested particularly in comparison with students who to hear. Instead of lawyers in the Public have the opportunity of studying at the Service not being informed and trained to university. present a Crown case in an impartial fashion, without any great objective to obtain a con­ I think that the Minister should insist on viction come hell or high water, as seems the provision of some system of tuition. I to have happened in the Milgate trial, they am sure that private practitioners, at no should be properly told that it is not the cost to the Government, would lecture free function of the Crown, or men in the Crown of charge those students who are getting no 2624 Legal Practitioners [ASSEMBLY] Acts Amendment Bill

instruction at the moment because they are little along the way. He certainly has not not able to attend the university, provided learnt any law up to date if what he says a properly organised scheme is arranged and here is to be taken as an indication of his provided they are properly organised into ability. classes. I think his reference to changes in the Not only should we not build a fence Ministry was particularly ill-advised, because around the legal profession in Queensland; two of the last three· have been caused by we should also not build a fence around the deaths of the incumbents. In his Queenslanders generally to keep out competi­ enthusiasm I think he lost sight of that tion from other States. It is high time fact because, bad and all as he is, I that amending legislation was introduced to do not think he would have done that enable Queensland barristers to practise in deliberately. New South Wales. The New South Wales Mr. Bennett: I was talking about the police authorities would be prepared to have them portfolio, which has been changed three there if New South Wales barristers were times in the last four years. allowed to practise here. Legislation should be brought down to enable the New South Dr. DELAMOTHE: In the earlier part of Wales Bar to practise in Queensland. I feel his speech the hon. member made, in a very that those who advise the Minister in a confused way, an attack on the hon. member manner contrary to the advice that I am for Townsville South. This would have giving him have a vested interest in practising been better made if that hon. member had their profession in Queensland, and perhaps been here to defend himself. they form a small group at the Bar who The hon. member also made some refer­ are afraid of competition from New South ence to tape recorders. Let me assure him Wales. that preparing for their use has been a long, trying time. First of all, there was the Mr. Windsor: Do you think we should difficulty of getting the most modern form hand over the drafting of our legislation to of instrument. The training of the operators you? is now going on, and the installation of tape Mr. BENNETI: I think that would be recorders is in sight. I share the hon. an excellent idea. There would be a lot less member's impatience in that regard. That Queensland legislation upset in the Full is one matter on which we agree, at least. Court of Queensland and the High Court The Legal Practitioners Act has nothing of Australia if I drafted it and implemented to do with District Court judges, so I do in it principles that I espouse. In saying not propose to deal with the promotion of that. I am not being derogatory of the District Court judges. Parliamentary Draftsman or officers of the The hon. member offered criticism of Solicitor-General's office. Quite frankly, I solicitors who, for selfish reasons, do not fail to understand how the Solicitor-General employ as many articled clerks as they could. and the Parliamentary Draftsman can That is a matter that he might well take up operate from time to time with the confused with Queensland Law Society, which might instructions that they get from various be able to clear his mind on that point. Ministers. So often have Ministers and portfolios been changed that the draftsmen In regard to his attack on Crown prose­ must find it hard to get any constant direction cutors, the tenor of his remarks seemed to from the Government, particularly in relation indicate that he must have had some unsuc­ to the Orders in Council drafted recently. cessful encounters with them recently. There I do not know whether a certain amendment was a certain sourness about them. will be found to be valid in court, either. Mr. Cobum: He made a very serious Although I agree that the measure is accusation. desirable to give equal opportunities to all Mr. Bennett: It was true. I could name concerned, if it is found that too much time the case. has to be taken off to attend lectures in the university course, some facilities should Dr. DELAMOT.HE: The hon. member's be made available at night. accusation that Crown prosecutors are venal (Time expired.) and do things that are against the ethics or morality of the profession was an unworthy Hon. P. R. DELAMOTHE (Bowen­ attack on a body of people who are not Minister for Justice) (4.37 p.m.), in reply: here to defend themselves. If he has these Never have we listened to a more confused sentiments towards Crown prosecutors, I contribution to a debate than that made think he has ample opportunity to bring them this afternoon by the hon. member for South forward in court. Brisbane. He spoke about confusion. I Mr. Bennett: You cannot bring them for­ have yet to hear from him a speech in ward in court. It is the Government who is any debate that is not the acme of confusion. directing them. The more I listen to him the happier I am that I introduced this Bill, because I think Dr. DELAMOTHE: To say that the it would be an advantage to him if he joined Government directs Crown prosecutors to do the Solicitor-General's office and repeated something that is illegal, unethical or his law course, as he might then learn a immoral is completely incorrect. Optometrists Acts [16 MARCH] Amendment Bill 2625

Motion (Dr. Delamothe) agreed to. will be nothing to prevent the Queensland Resolution reported. board from approaching the other States to obtain reciprocity. FIRST READING Another reason for the raising of the Bill presented and, on motion of Dr. standard is to provide an acceptable basis Delamothe, read a first time. of entry to the profession because under present conditions the first year . of al?pr~n­ OPTOMETRISTS ACTS AMENDMENT ticeship is generally absorbed m bnngmg BILL students up to the Senior stand_ard in _math~­ matics and physics-two essential subjects m INITIATION IN COMMITTEE the profession. The amendment will remove (Mr. Hodges, Gympie, in the chair) this disability. Hon. S. D. TOOTH (Ashgrove-Minister The desired purpose is achieved by delet­ for Health) (4.45 p.m.): I move- ing the proviso to clause 11 of Schedule II of the principal Act. This schedule lays "That a Bill be introduced to amend the down the subject matter for the making of Optometrists Acts, 1917 to 1959, in certain by-laws and clause 11 empowers the board particulars.' to make by-laws prescribing and regula!ing The proposed amendments deal with four the method, subjects and scope of examma­ principal matters, namely- tions. The proviso in the existing clause (!) the revision of the penalties pre­ debars the board from prescribing a standard scribed in the Acts; higher than the Junior standard and the repeal of such proviso removes that restric­ (2) the raising of the entrance standard tion. of trainees in optometry to the Senior University standard; This deletion also has the effect of vesting in the board power to prescribe a diploma (3) the enabling of the Board of Opto­ course in optometry instead of the appren­ metrical Registration to prescribe a diploma ticeship system. This is cor:tingent, of cours~, course at the Institute of Technology for on the inclusion of a diploma course m optometrical trainees in lieu of the existing optometry in the courses to be provided at apprenticeship system; the new Institute of Technology. (4) the bringing of the provisions relating Mr. Bromley: Will this mean that there to offences or unprofessional conduct by will be reciprocity between States? optometrists more in line with the corres­ ponding provisions of the Medical, Mr. TOOTH: The effect of these amend­ Pharmacy and Dental Acts. ments will be to enable the board effectively The penalties at present prescribed in the to approach other States for reciprocity. The Acts in some instances have remained other States have not been prepared to grant unchanged since 1917, while others have reciprocity up to the present because of the been unaltered since 1939, or of more recent inferior entrance examination in Queensland. origin. The proposed diploma course stems from the difficulty being experienced in the pro­ When it was known that an amendment fession of obtaining adequate numbers of of the Optometrists Acts was contemplated, optometrical trainees. I am informed that the Board of Optometrical Registration drew there is a general reluctance ~n the par~ of attention to the inadequacy of the majority optometrists to employ and tram apprentices, of the penalties prescribed in the existing and it seems that almost the only persons who Acts and requested that these penalties be are able to obtain an apprenticeship in this reviewed and brought into line with present­ profession are the relatives or close friends day values. A large proportion of the of members of the profession. amendments contained in the proposed measure deal with these revised penalties and The adoption of a course of training to do not require further detailed explanation. qualify as an optometrist is conside;ed ~o be a lo<>ical alternative to the apprenticeship One of the features in these amend­ system,"' which, under present conditions, ments is a provision to enable the Board leaves much to be desired. of Optometrical Registration to raise the The matter of the proposed new course is entry qualification to enter optometrical under discussion with the education training to that of the Senior standard. This authorities, and it has already been indicated amendment has been sought by the board that such a course, if instituted, would prob­ and by the profession generally over a long ably require Senior passes in English, period of years. Maths. I, Physics, Chemistry, and one other One of the main advantages of raising the subject. standard is that it will remove the present If this purpose is achieved it should attract bar to achieving reciprocity with the other more students into the optometrical profes­ States in the matter of registration as an sion-and students with higher qualifications optometrist. All the other States of Australia than those at present. prescribe the Senior examination as the The fourth feature in the Bill relates to standard of entry into the optometrical pro­ offences or misconduct by optometrists. The fession and when the Bill becomes law there only disciplinary power possessed by the 2626 Optometrists Acts [ASSEMBLY] Amendment Bill

board under the present legislation is con­ diploma course to be determined by the tained in Section 19 of the Act, which registrar, and a provlSlon dealing with empowers the board to suspend an optometrist unprofessional conduct. I should like to or licensed spectacle seller from practlsmg look at the Minister's submissions as they his profession if it considers it necessary. will appear in the proof tomorrow to see The board may also remove the offender's the points covered. The second-reading name from the register for disobeying the stage will then afford an appropriate oppor­ Act or for some act of misconduct. tunity for me to deal with any matters I These powers are not sufficiently flexible wish to raise. to enable the board to meet varying types of offences or degrees of misconduct. It is Mr. HOOPER (Greenslopes) (4.56 p.m.): I proposed to substitute for the present powers listened very carefully to the Minister's a new clause which basically is similar to introductory speech and I am very pleased the corresponding section of the othe-r pro­ indeed with the principles that we can expect fessional Acts. The board's power to to see in the Bill. I should like to remind deregister an optometrist for misconduct of hon. members that, in my Address-in-Reply an extreme nature will be retained, and it is speech in September, I made suggestions being provided further that conviction of an about many of the matters that the Minister indictable offence may also be a ground for has indicated will appear in the Bill, and I deregistration. am very grateful that they have been taken into account. It is most heartening to know The new provisions provide for varying that the educational standard is to be raised degrees of penalty to meet varying degrees to the Senior level. The people in the field of misconduct. of optometry have been seeking this for a Provisions have been included setting out long time. I suggested in my earlier speech the procedure to be followed by the board that some university course might be adopted in the exercise of its powers to take discip­ and I am pleased to note that the board will linary action and to protect the rights of an have power, if it desires, to institute a diploma optometrist charged under the section to be course. This is very desirable and it will heard in his own defence. be taken advantage of if the board decides It is proposed also that the board shall it is appropriate. have power to determine that any inquiry In the Minister's introductory remarks he held in pursuance of the proposed provisions referred to the failure of optometrists to shall be open to the public, and it is also employ new apprentices. I do not agree with proposed to allow the complainant or the the Minister's suggestion that this is so. To optometrist the right to request an open my knowledge the real reason for the lack of hearing. It is proposed, however, that such employment of additional apprentices is the request shall be subject to the board's absence of reciprocity between the States. determination. This has been a bar to training more young In the event of the board's determining people in this very important profession. The against the complainant or the optometrist. raising of the education standard is one of the the latter has the right of appeal. factors that will enable Queensland to The right of appeal is contained in the approach the other States for reciprocity in existing Act (section 27), which provides that the profession. With the offer of the oppor­ any person who thinks himself aggrieved by tunity to institute a diploma course, there is any decision, ruling, order or direction of the hope that, in future, when young people the board or registrar, may appeal by become qualified, they will be able to practise summons to a judge of the Supreme Court. in other States. There is a minor amendment of the section I should like the Minister to examine from providing for definitions in which it is pro­ Queensland's point of view the reciprocity posed to bring the definition of "Minister" rights of other States in Queensland. I know in line with the present title of the Minister of one case of a practising optician from for Health. Victoria who came to Queensland. During the war he served with the Army here as Two consequential amendments flow from an optometrist, and after the war he was the proposed new section 19A, and the'e still in the Army as an optometrist, but he provide for the repeal of part of section 20 has been unable to get registration in Queens­ and the whole of section 25 of the principal Act. I commend the Bill to the Committee. land although he is registered in Victoria. I ask the Minister to examine the matter Mr. DUGGAN (Toowoomba West­ closely. If we are to have reciprocity, let Leader of the Opposition) (4.51 p.m.): I us have complete reciprocity. I think the shall reserve comment on this measure until hon. member for Norman knows something the second-reading stage because, through about this. no fault of the Minister-! was engaged in necessary consultation firstly with the Premier I am pleased to note the disciplinary action and secondly with a colleague-! missed most that the board will be able to take under the of his submissions. I did gather that there new provisions, and I am very pleased that are four principles contained in the Bill. optometrists will have a right of appeal to namely, a revision of the penalties, the a judge of the Supreme Court. That is raising of entrance standards, a prescribed very important. Optometrists Acts [16 MARCH] Amendment Bill 2627

The Education Department comes into this In other words the writer is saying that the matter. I appealed to both the Minister for optometrist sh~uld be highly tr~ined, parti­ Health and the Minister for Education to get cularly in the prevention of th1s particular together, with the object of implementing a disease. The article continues- higher education standard. "We make one suggestion. After a gi:'en age statistically determined or otherWise, I am sure that this will be accepted not every patient should be given,. as a. matter only by the optometry profession but also by of routine, a thorough penmetnc . and young people who still have their eyes set on scotometric investigation, at regular mter­ it. I know from my personal experience vals. We assume that the optometrist has that this profession does a remarkable job developed the utmost skill in applying and in our community and I am happy to see a interpreting digital tonometry in his every Bill such as this introduced. day routine, but can we assume that he Mr. HANSON (Port Curtis) (5.1 p.m.): has acquired the utmost skill in perimetry Like the Leader of the Opposition, I await and scotometry? the Bill with interest. I know that he will "If these investigations were routine in carry out research and give a good deal of an age group he would certainly quickly thought to the matter before speaking on it possess that efficiency. again. "We therefore suggest that perimetry In his introduction the Minister mentioned and scotometry become part of every com­ certain principles. One dealt with raising the plete optometric examination in a selected age group as well as. in every case where standard from the Junior to the Senior level, symptoms may suggest it." with particular emphasis on mathematics and physics. That is desirable. It was envisaged Scotometry is an obscuration of part of the in the legislation introduced by Dr. Noble visual field due to a lesion of the retina or of the ophthalmic centres in the brain. Peri­ in 1961. In this modern age when great metry is measurement of the field of vision emphasis is placed on education, particularly and determining the visual powers of differ­ in the specialist fields and the professions, it ent parts of the retina. is highly desirable for the physical well­ I quite agree with that article, and also being of the community that people be better with the submissions of the Minister. The equipped and better trained. Owing to the legislation gives preference to the diploma alarmingly high percentage of blindness from course over the former apprenticeship course, glaucoma, it is necessary that our optomet­ and this is particularly advantageous for rists be highly trained in this field. I cast people in country areas who have not ready no reflection on many of the very fine men in access to ophthalmic surgeons or eye special­ the State today practising optometry. Some ists. I give this part of the legislation my of them, particularly those with whom I support. have come into contact and those who have Last year I asked a question in the House gone from the metropolis and set up practice concerning contact lenses. I had read in a in country areas, are highly ethical and do magazine that the Massachusetts Ophthalmic a great service to the community. Institute had conducted an investigation into many cases of blindness caused by incorrect An article on glaucoma published in the placing of contact lenses in the eyes of Australian Journal of Optometry states- patients by optometrists and opticians. The Minister was able to tell me in his reply that "We have on many occasions most there were no known similar cases in this emphatically expressed the view that every State of blindness or near-blindness caused optometrist must be equipped with the by the insertion of contact lenses. Never­ theoretical and practical knowledge theless, the possibility is worth investigating necessary to make every investigation and guarding against. I hope that those within the ambit of his legal practice. responsible will be constantly watching for this type of condition that can be caused by "Assuming then that every optometrist insufficient skill on the part of practising is so equipped, the question arises, when optometrists, eye specialists, or opticians. As should he apply that equipment? The was stated in the Minister's answer, any answer would obviously be, whenever the scarring of the cornea could cause consider­ slightest suspicion is aroused by the patient's able embarrassment and could possibly lead history, by the objective examination or to blindness or near-blindness. In my short by the subjective examination. lifetime I suffered once from an ulcer on the cornea of the eve, and I can assure hon. "Such an answer does not seem adequate members that I had three weeks of agony. in view of the present day incidence con­ I greatly appreciated being able to get the cerning glaucoma; for in view of the correct advice and the right treatment for it. insidious nature of the onset of glaucoma As to penalties-by-law 59 (e) of the Board simplex and the fact that it may be of Optometrical Registration reads- symptomless, and further that the symp­ "Any offer of free service, and without toms, when present, are often common limiting the generality thereof, including to other benign conditions, it is obvious free sight testing. bonuses, premiums. dis­ that some other approach is necessary." counts, or any other inducement." 2628 Optometrists Acts [ASSEMBLY] Amendment Bill

The board should be told, as I think its £1 13s. for a test by an eye specialist and members know already, that that by-law is £2 for the provision of spectacles, but these not worth the paper it is written on. I do not payments are not available to a person who know how many prosecutions have been consults an optometrist who has passed his launched by the board, and I do not want to examinations. pimp on any optometrist or optician. Never­ theless, certain rules are laid down by the The Minister intends now to raise the board, just as they are by other boards con­ standard, but he cannot get away from the trolling other professional men, such as doc­ fact that there are many fine optometrists tors and dentists. There have been numer­ in practice who have detected physical con­ ous cases in which inducements and large ditions in the eyes of people who have discounts have been offered, to the detriment consulted them and who have then sent of trained optometrists who have set up prac­ them to eye specialists. To give one instance tices in country centres and are rendering -some years ago an optometrist in Bunda­ good service in their communities. They berg recommended that a man take his have to meet competition of this sort. child to the Children's Hospital in Brisbane If a board has the blessing of Parliament to have an abnormal eye defect investigated. in making these by-laws, they should be The man followed the recommendation and strictly adhered to, and no encroachment the child received therapy. Eventually a should be made upon the preserve of those prescription was given for glasses and the who have gone to country towns and are man was told to take it to Optical providing a very good service for the people. Prescriptions Spectacle Makers Pty. Ltd. I do not know whether the Brisbane General While I am on that point, let me say Hospital has a contract with Optical that several people have approached me and, Prescriptions. It could be a good firm through the good graces of the Department for all that I know, and many people of Health, I have obtained railway passes make use of the service that it provides. to enable them to go to certain centres However, I would not go to it; I would to consult eye specialists. Spectacles have oo to the optometrist who practises been prescribed for them and they have fn my own home town and who is a. ve:y expressed a desire to go back to their home fine man. As I said, the optometnst m town of Gladstone and see the optometrist Bundaberg told the man that his child had who resides there. I understand that in an abnormal eye condition and that he some cases officials at hospitals have actually should take him to the Brisbane General stamped their feet and demanded that the Hospital. In my opinion, it was quite wrong patient go and see someone down the road. to tell the man to take the prescription for I do not know whether the person down spectacles for the child to Optical Prescrip­ the road has any contract with the hospital tions. If the child really needed spectacles. board in question, but I want to say quite why not take the prescription back to the frankly that if such a state of affairs arises optometrist in Bundaberg who had the again and I discover that there is no contract decency, honesty and integrity to tell the between the board and the private optome­ man to take his child to the Brisbane General trist concerned, I shall raise the matter in Hospital? this Chamber. I believe, as does every member of the Australian Labour Party, in 1\'Ir. Donald: Do Optical Prescriptions test a policy of "live and let live". If it is good eyes? for one person, it is good for another. I do not believe there should be any Mr. HANSON: No. They provide spec­ favouritism. A patient should have the tacles on prescription. As a matter of fact, right to choose whichever optometrist he there is a certain amount of argumentation desires, in the same way as he has com­ in the ontical world about Optical Prescrip­ plete freedom to go into a shop and choose tions; pe~sonally I have never done business whichever brand of cigarettes he desires with them. to smoke. In my opinion, a hospital board should not have the right to direct its The point I make is that this man in Bunda­ patients to consult a particular optometrist. bera recommended that the child be taken I am not saying that any funny business to "'the Brisbane Hospital and the hospital is going on, but if such a practice is followed had no right to recommend that the man go in future I shall bring it up in this Chamber to Optical Prescriptions. He wanted to take and I shall mention names. The person his business to the man residing in his own who is very much to the fore in this state of town and he should have had freedom of affairs will know what I am talking about, choice and been allowed to do so. and I hope he has the good sense to behave himself and to allow ordinary, decent people I think a terrible state of affairs exists a freedom of choice of optometrists. with the medical benefits funds-not that this comes within the ambit of the Minister; it is I agree with the desire of the Queensland a Federal matter. Nevertheless, patients of Division of the Australian Optometrical optometrists should be given similar benefits Association to obtain for patients of its to those of the medical profession. Any members benefits similar to those obtained medical practitioner can set himself up as an by patients of members of the A.M.A. under eye specialists overnight, particularly in a medical benefits schemes. I believe that the country town, and his patients then enjoy Medical Benefits Fund of Australia provides benefits not enjoyed by an optometrist's Optometrists Acts [16 MARCH] Amendment Bill 2629

patients. However, I shall be speaking to these various professions. I hope that the the second reading of the Bill and I shall Bill will lead to a set standard throughout reserve any further comments until then. Australia. Reciprocity will enable people coming from the South to undergo the Mr. BROMLEY (Norman) (5.16 p.m.): I necessary diploma-course training and then do not intend to speak very long on this Bill. become available to practise in the various Unfortunately, I missed some of the Minis­ isolated areas in Queensland where we are ter's introductory remarks as I was called so short of men in this profession. to the telephone; I missed his outline of the four main provisions but, from what I did I reserve further comment until I have hear, I think we should charge our "reading" seen the Bill. I believe it to be a step in ,glasses and commend the Minister for intro­ the right direction. ducing the Bill because I feel that ii will do a Jot of good in this field. Hon. S. D. TOOTH (Ashgrove-Minister for Health) (5.21 p.m.), in reply: I thank The Minister did not say whether there hon. members for their comments, particularly was much illegal practising in this profes­ the commendation that has been offered. sion. I have not heard of much of it. The Minister did not indicate, either, whether the In reply to the hon. member for Norman, provisions relating to penalties associated I point out that the penalties will be increased with the profession will be altered very much. to bring them to modern levels of value. Perhaps he will indicate now or in his reply As I said in my earlier remarks, many of what the increased penalties will be. these penalties were assessed and included in I believe, as the hon. member for Port legislation as far back as 1917. Curtis does, that there should be an eye-test­ Mr. Hansom You are not talking about ing centre at all hospitals whether they are the penalties provided in the schedule to the on the north side or the south side of the by-laws of the Board of Optical Registration? river. I mention that in passing because it is very important, particularly for children. MI·. TOOTH: I am referring to the I agree that it should be part of any health monetary penalties provided in various scheme, but that is not the particular concern sections of the Act for various breaches of of the Bill. the rules laid down by the board, and for The raising of the educational standard for breaches of professional conduct. any trade or profession is very important The hon. member raised an extremely and something we should all commend. I important point about not penalising opto­ wonder whether the Minister can tell us metrists presently in practice. It must be whether the raising of the standard in this emphasised that the Bill will not of itself case from Junior to Senior in conjunction with the diploma course will create a some­ achieve reciprocity. It will put the registration what closed preserve in this very important board in a position to negotiate with regis­ profession. I believe there are some very tration boards in other States to arrange clever men in this field in Queensland. I reciprocity. Obviously it must work both say that from my association with "Narbeth­ ways. ong", the School for the Blind. In that As to the instance given by the hon. capacity, I have quite a lot to do with member for Greenslopes, it is unlikely that children who have to go to optometrists for reciprocity will be granted by Queensland eye-testing and I have come into contact with, unless similar reciprocity is granted to our and have been told about, some very brilliant people by other States, so that the flow is men in this field in Queensland. both ways. That is one of the prerequisites The Minister spoke about deletions from to any reciprocity arrangement. I should section 11. Unfortunately, I am not very be very surprised if the board were to familiar with that section but I believe it penalise present Queensland optometrists relates to penalties of some type. Is that because of their entrance examinations having correct? been lower than those now being prescribed. Mr. Tooth: No, it is the deletion of certain Whether the Queensland board will be able standards of entrance examination, permit­ to obtain reciprocity for them in other States ting the board to set a higher standard than is a matter I hesitate to make any prophecy Junior. about. It will be a matter of negotiation when the board has the necessary powers. Mr. BROMLEY: I do not know whether The hon. member for Greenslopes referred the Bill will adversely affect any optometrist to the shortage of apprentices and th~ presently practising. I hope it does not possibility that it arises not so much from because, after all, these men are well estab­ the unwillingness of optometrists to indenture lished; they have a very good name; and them as from the fact that not many in they have been doing a good job not only Queensland are willing to enter the profession in the city of Brisbane but also i11 country areas. until such time as reciprocity with the other States is assured. There may be some weight I am very happy to know that the Bill in that suggestion. If so, no doubt the contains the principle of reciprocity. We registration board will do something about in Queensland have been slipping behind it in due course. The willingness of the the other States somewhat in matters affecting Department of Education to co-operate to 2630 Mining on Private Land [ASSEMBLY] Acts Amendment Bill establish a diploma course at the new Institute This enables larger areas to be prospected of Technology has been assured. I am under special conditions which usually involve confident that, when this comes in, together substantial and continuous expenditure. The with many other diploma courses, it will area covered by a single permit will be mean a greater recognition of Queensland limited to 640 acres. professional men throughout Australia. Mr. Bromley: Is there any time limit on The hon. member for Port Curtis corn­ the permit? mended the Bill, particularly the changes in the educational standard. I must confess Mr. CAMM: There will be a time limit I was somewhat overawed by the technical on the permit. knowledge he displayed in this matter. I Provision already exists under the Mining could not possibly hope to compete with it. Act for an authority to prospect on Crown His references to glaucoma and his remarks land, and also over Crown and private lands about contact lenses and the possibility of under both the Petroleum Act and the Coal their causing blindness will be noted. These Mimng Act. matters will be passed on to the appropriate An authority to prospect is an early pros­ technical officers in due course, and, if they pecting title to test the ground and later have any comments I will pass them on to a production title, such as a lease, can be the hon. member. granted to enable the actual mining to The hon. member's comment concerning commence. regulation 59, which I understand he feels No mining lease can be granted on private is honoured more in the breach, will be land within 50 yards of an existing improve­ looked at, and the matter of favouritism in ment, such as sheds, or even fruit trees, hospital recommendations of optometrists is without the prior consent of the owner. perhaps an important point. If he has any This is contained in the principal Act and is specific cases that he thinks should be looked still in existence. into, I will be grateful to have information concerning them, and then they will certainly Clause 2 repeals the existing section 7 be investigated. of the principal Act and inseTts a new section 7. As it is now worded, an area Motion (Mr. Tooth) agreed to. of private land can be exempted from the Resolution reported. grant or registration of a mining tenement FIRST READING or a permit to enter under this Act but does not prohibit searching for coal or Bill presented and, on motion of Mr. petroleum (which are dealt with under Tooth, read a first time. other Acts), as I mentioned earlier, or does not debar the applicant for a permit MINING ON PRIVATE LAND ACTS to enter who is the holder of an authority AMENDMENT BILL to prospect under this Act. INITIATION IN COMMITTEE Clause 3 repeals the existing Section 12 and inserts a new Section 12. It now pro­ (Mr. Hodges, Gympie, in the chair) vides for an application for permit to enter Hon. R. E. CAMM (Whitsunday-Minister to be made to cover only contiguous parcels for Mines and Main Roads) (5.28 p.m.): I of land owned by the same person or persons. move- There is the same provision for occupiers "That a Bill be introduced to amend the in the case of private land which has not Mining on Private Land Acts, 1909 to yet been alienated by the Crown in fee simple. A permit must be obtained for each 1956, in certain particulars." separate parcel of land. Following the recent amendments to the Land Subsection 6A allows the holder of a Act and the closer settlement of this State, permit to enter to bring his employees onto it has been found necessary to review the the private land concerned to search for Act relating to mining on private lands. The minerals, and subsection 7 A protects the preliminary requirement to the granting of land-owner by way of compensation. Every a title to mine on private land is the pos­ permit to enter will require the lodgment session of a permit to enter. This entitles of a token deposit of £5 which will be a prospector to go onto land and peg out a an acknowledgement of the liability for lease or claim. Without this permit to enter compensation to the occupier. a man can be classed as a trespasser and no title to mine can be obtained. The permit Subsection 8 precludes an application for to enter also prevents any other prospector a permit to enter over land on which such from entering onto the particular block of a permit exists. However, this restriction land. This applies to any land that is does not apply where the land is covered private land held under a freehold tenure. by an authority to prospect. Under that Even the freeholder himself does not own Act the holder of such an authority has the minerals in the land. The Crown retains the right to apply for a further perm!t the right to minerals, and the only way within seven days before the current permit a person can exercise any right or claim over expires. the minerals is to acquire a mining title. The proviso to subsection 9 allows the A very important part of this Bill provides holder of an authority to prospect to ob'ain for an authority to prospect on private land. continuous permits to enter over the same 1lJining on Private La11d [16 MARCH] Acts Amendment Bill 2631

private land during the currency of the title. Reserves are not included. This action authority to prospect. A permit to enter has been made necessary by changes in the lasts for 30 days, whereas an authority to Land Act. prospect lasts for any period fixed by the Clause 9 extends the provisions of this Minister. Act to applications for permits to enter made Clause 4 inserts a new section 12A which before the commencement of the Act but provides for a grant of an authority to which have not been granted or refused at prospect over private land for gold or the date of commencement. minerals other than coal, fire clay, or I consider that the provisions set out are mineral oil. It gives the Minister power to desirable and bring improvement to the Act fix the terms and conditions of the authority as it now stands. I commend the Bill to to prospect and also to set certain require­ the Committee. ments as to the mininc; ti le to be applied for in the event of the discovery of gold Mr. DUGGAN (Toowoomba West­ or minerals. The section also sets out Leader of the Opposition) (5.39 p.m.): Unless the obligations of the holder of the authority one was versed in mining matters, one would to prospect including that of obtaininp; a need to be a Philadelphia lawyer to under­ permit to enter before he attempts to enter stand the full implications of the measure. upon any private land within the authority. My head is still reeling from the amend­ This authority to prospect has never before ments to be affected by clause 8, clause 9, been granted on private land. and so on. It is quite impossible ro appreci­ Clause 5 provides an amendment to Sec­ ate the full import of this measure. tion 13 to allow the applicant for a mining .I think it would have been more helpful at tenement to apply for a right of way to a this stage if the Minister had indicated, practicable point (not necessarily the nearest) quite apart from the recent amendments of of any road, river, waterway, or railway. the Land Act, the general wishes of the There may be physical difficulties that make people engaged in prospecting and to what it difficult for the holder of a lease to go extent their objectives have been nullified by to the nearest point, which could be across a legislation preventing them from carrying river, gully, or hill. This amendment speci­ out their activities. What is the Government fies the nearest practicable point. aiming at? What is the State aiming at? Has Clause 6 amends Section 17 to provide the Government available to it information for fresh arrangements for compensation in that on private land there are rich mineral respect of any renewal of the mining tene­ deposits that people, other than the owners ment. of the land, are prevented from prospecting? Is the information available to the Govern­ Clause 7 amends Section 18. It spells out ment sufficient to necessitate these amend­ certain requirements for an agreement on ments? Are they largely technical amend­ compensation. That will depend on changing ments resulting from the amendment of the circumstances. Land Act? The Minister said that the Coal Clause 8 amends Section 21A by inserting Mining Act, the Petroleum Act, and other a new definition of the term "private land". Acts that impinge upon this subject already The main reason for this amendment is the make provision in regard to their application amount of freeholding of land now proceed­ to private land and that the right to mine ing in Queensland. for minerals is excluded. What is the reason Mr. Bromiey: Does this affect freehold for this change? It is a fundamental prin­ land in the metropolitan area? ciple, and the amendment of the Land Act is not responsible for the change. Somebody Mr. CAMM: It affects freehold land must intend to carry out general prospecting. wherever it is, but no permit will be allowed Areas of 640 acres are quite substantial if within 50 yards of any improvement. the provisions of the Bill are to affect people living in closely settled areas. The Minister The definition in the principal Act is merely stated that prospecting will be pro­ obscure and could be interpreted to mean hibited within 50 yards of fixed improvements, that any land within the State that could pos­ and a fruit tree could be described as a fixed sibly be freeholded at some future date could improvement. I think it would require very be regarded as private land. Taken to its cogent evidence to justify coming to within extreme, this could mean that almost the 50 yards in prospecting. As the hon. mem­ whole State was private land, which would ber for Norman pointed out, it could cover present insurmountable difficulties with regard prospecting in metropolitan allotments. to entry upon land and prospecting. The definition has now been amended to cover I think it would be helpful if the Minister only land that has been freeholded or is cut out some of the technicalities at this being purchased as freehold from the Crown, stage. Probably hon. members will have a or in respect of which an absolute right to better idea of what the proposed provisions freehold accrues upon the performance of a mean when the Bill is discussed at the Com­ necessary developmental or improvement mittee stage. I do not want to catch the condition. In other words, it covers any Minister in a pincers movement. Sometimes land which is in the process of being free­ we claim that there is a paucity of informa­ holded or on which the present lessee has tion at the introductory stage and that we undertaken to construct certain improvements do not know what is involved, apart from that will enable him to apply for freehold the fact that it is a confirmation of certain 2632 Mining on Private Land [ASSEMBLY] Acts Amendment Bill

principles; at other times, when a Minister passing of the late Mr. Evaps. He served gives us an outline of the provisions of a the coal-mining industry particularly well, as Bill in great detail, we claim that he is he did the State as a wh·:le, and it was a being too technical. sad blow to all connected with the industry I should like to offer my congratulations that he was taken from our midst. Whilst to the Minister on his appointment. It is I admit that perhaps I should have spol~en not usual for ministerial appointments to on the occasion when the condolence motwn evoke congratulations, but I hope that I may following his death was before the House, be permitted to offer mine at this stage. I I could not let pass the opportunity to do hope that the Minister's stay in office will so now. be a happy one, but I hope that it will not I am at a loss to know the reason for be any longer than is absolutely necessary the introduction of this amendment to the from the Opposition's point of view. In Mining on Private Lands Acts. The Minister future, I hope that in introducing Bills he said certain sections were being amended will give a short explanation, simply stated, in a certain way but he did not give us as to what is intended. I am not saying this in an egotistical way, but I should like one reason to justify the amendments. I ~m to think that he will convey to us the objec­ quite prepared to accept them . as ~en~une tives of the Government and the adminis­ but it appears to me that protectiOn IS given tration instead of giving a formal recital of to those who prospect on private land, what the proposed amendments will do particularly the first in the field. If the technically. freeholder of the land is put to some inconvenience or if he has to dispense with The proposed Bill is an important one some of his rights, then I think it is a because Queensland is now in the throes retrograde step. Members of the Government of great mineral development, as is We~tern feel that freehold land is something that is Australia. A great deal of our national sacred and cannot be interfered with in wealth is won through our minerals, and if any way. Whilst I do not subscribe totally alterations are to be made of this type, I to that view I think it is surprising that a think everybody should be conversant with Minister should be prepared, if my interpre­ their purposes and with the lasting b~neficial results that it is hoped will be achieved. tation is correct to take a privilege from the owner of fr~ehold land and give it to I hope the Minister does not think that I someone else who is prospecting for minerals. have been unreasonable in my remarks. I The Bill has nothing to do with coal started to make a number of notes about mininu but the principles are the same. It authorities to prospect, and so on, but gives "the prospector, whether _it be an trying to follow all the Minister's perambul~­ individual or a company, a permit to enter tions into what one can and cannot do 111 regard to the mining of private lands became upon freehold land. That permit l~sts !or quite bewildering. It seems a matter for 30 days. If he cannot make up h1s mmd regret that the Parliamentary Draftsman in 30 days to start prospecting then he cannot bring these matters under one loses his permit. I think that is sufficient measure. Earlier the Minister indicated that time in which to say whether or not he the proposed alterations impinge on a number intends to commence operations, and if he of other Acts, and it is regrettable th~t they does not do so in that time he defeats his cannot be linked in one mining Bill and purpose. But the authority to pr_ospect is not then linked again with the Land Act and limited so far as the prospector IS concerned. certain other Acts. I do not put that It is in the hands of the Minister, and so long forward as a very strong point, because the as he is prepared to allow a person to Parliamentary Draftsman no doubt could prospect on freehold land he can go onto point out the technical difficulties and dis­ it at any time. I do not know whether advantages of doing something along those I have interpreted that rightly or wr~mgly, lines. but it appears to me that the authonty to prospect is limited only by an area of I am afraid that on this occasion I need 640 acres. a greater opportunity than usual to peruse It the proposals put fonyar~ by the Jv!ini.ster. appears too, if I heard the Minister He is writing into legislatiOn new pnnciples correctly, that an authority to prospect can in one or two instances, particularly in the be "ranted without the consent of the owner. riaht to prospect for minerals on private Th; prospector gets a permit to enter from la~d and I think the Committee is entitled the Department of Mines or some other to k~ow the reason for this change. If the department, and he then gets an au~ho~ity Minister can clear up these things the passage to prospect. Irrespective of any obJectiOn of the Bill will be made much easier. on the part of the owner, it can be granted. On the matter of compensation, I think Mr. DONALD (Ipswich East) (5.46 p.m.): that the owner of land should be given Although it may not be an appropriate time, adequate compensation or at least protection I feel I would be remiss in my duty if in some way. He should be given the same I did not take this opportunity to express protection as we give in the ordinary course the sincere regret of all people connected when the Government takes freehold land with the mining industry in Queensland, from people. There should be some firm particularly the coal-mining industry, at the right in the owner of freehold land on Mining on Private Land Acts, &c., Bill [17 MARCH] Questions 2633 which a prospector mtends to prospect to prospector to prospect for oil or. coal. . The compensation for damage done to the land freeholder has never owned the mmeral m the or inconvenience that he may be caused. That land. protection should be given not only to the Motion (Mr. Camm) agreed to. man who holds freehold land but also to Resolution reported. anyone who is in the course of purchasing freehold land. FIRST READING It is a pity, as my Leader pointed out, Bill presented and, on motion of Mr. that the Minister did not give reasons for the Camm, read a first time. introduction of this legislation. Of course, The House adjourned at 5.56 p.m. lie is merely introducing it at this stage. However, had we been given more infor­ mation we would have had more food for thought and have been in a better position to express ourselves more fully on the Bill. As we have been denied an opportunity to hear the reasons for its introduction our comments must be very limited. I join with my Leader in offering congratulations to the Minister on his elevation to Cabinet rank. Hon. R. E. CAMM (Whitsunday­ Minister for Mines and Main Roads) (5.51 p.m.), in reply: First of all, I e·xtend my thanks to the Leader of the Opposition for his congratulations and good wishes for a long parliamentary life. I reciprocate his wishes and hope that for many years I will be able to look across at the other side of the Chamber and see the hon. gentleman as Leader of the Opposition. The proposed amendments have been framed with a view to extending the search for gold and minerals on private land. The provisions of the Petroleum Act and the Coal Mining Act enable prospectors to go on to private land at the present time. The Bill tightens the requireme·nts of the Mining on Private Lands Act as to entry upon and occupation of such land for mining purposes. It may be very difficult to under­ stand this submission unless one is well versed in mining law. ][ should like to stress to the hon. member for Ipswich East that no owner of freehold land owns the minerals under the ground. The Petroleum Act and the Coal Mining Act permit prospecting on private land for oil and coal. This Bill will extend the· same ri,!!hts to prospectors for gold and other minerals. Any points not elaborated on fullY at this stage can be dealt with more extensively at the second-reading stage. Some of the points raised are already covered by the provisions of the principal Act. The general purpose of the Bill is to stimulate prospecting, at the same time protecting the rights of the freeholder. No previous agreements are held to be cancelled. However, on renewal of a lease a fresh compensation agreement must be arranged. There will be provision in the Bill for adequate compensation. A permit expires after 30 days, when the holder must apply for a fresh one. Permits are still necessary in all cases. The freeholder's con­ sent has never been necessary to enable a